# CANFORGEN 168/18 (aka PATCHFORGEN) [Merged]



## RocketRichard (19 Apr 2018)

I see this soldier on ex in the U.S. wearing a Div patch on cadpat.  Is this just because they are out of Canada or is this now issued to all soldiers in 5 Div? If so, will all divisons be wearing div patches in the future?

https://instagram.com/p/Bht71jZgaK6/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BDTyre (19 Apr 2018)

I believe the idea is that eventually all personnel will wear their div patch on their combats but at this time (at least out here in 3 Div) only flag officers wear the patch. Not sure of the reason why when we all wear it on our DEUs. Incidentally, I have heard there is a move to start wearing qualification badges on combats (only ones worn on the DEUs like airborne, Ranger, etc.).


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## runormal (19 Apr 2018)

I've noticed senior officers from both 4 and 2 div wearing it for quite some time now. I didn't ask any questions


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## Lerch (22 Apr 2018)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> I believe the idea is that eventually all personnel will wear their div patch on their combats but at this time (at least out here in 3 Div) only flag officers wear the patch. Not sure of the reason why when we all wear it on our DEUs. Incidentally, I have heard there is a move to start wearing qualification badges on combats (only ones worn on the DEUs like airborne, Ranger, etc.).



When the Army Comd and RSM visited us in Latvia, the RSM was rocking CADPAT wings, so who knows how far that may go in the future.


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Apr 2018)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> I believe the idea is that eventually all personnel will wear their div patch on their combats but at this time (at least out here in 3 Div) only flag officers wear the patch.



I think you mean General Officers (unless you have some Navy DEU officer commanding 3 Div).



> Not sure of the reason why when we all wear it on our DEUs.



This (IMO) bullshit started about a decade ago, when the new "high vis" ranks came out and the Command Officers and CWOs only wore them under the story "to let the troops get used to them".  That was, and still is, fucking lame.  You'd think that their gorgets and bus driver hats allow them to feel 'special' enough now.  Apparantly not!  I'm not a fan of the 'us and them' dress policies; either the Div wears them on CADPAT, or the Div doesn't.  My Div (an Air Div) has standards of dress that apply to all, with some of the higher rank Officers and CWOs, sometimes, sporting some fancier style of flying suit name tags perhaps.  If the AF can standardize operational dress...



> Incidentally, I have heard there is a move to start wearing qualification badges on combats (only ones worn on the DEUs like airborne, Ranger, etc.).



I know in a few people who are qual'd aircrew who don't do flying anymore; one of them posted to CDA.  He wears his Wings badge on the left shoulder along with the big mo-fo flag.


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## PuckChaser (22 Apr 2018)

Lerch said:
			
		

> When the Army Comd and RSM visited us in Latvia, the RSM was rocking CADPAT wings, so who knows how far that may go in the future.


2 skill badges max, lower left CADPAT sleeve Velcro. In true Army fashion, being rolled out top to bottom in the CAF to increase morale of the troops. Started getting contacting for the badges and patches set up 3 years ago....


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Apr 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> 2 skill badges max, lower left CADPAT sleeve Velcro. In true Army fashion, being rolled out top to bottom in the CAF to increase morale of the troops. Started getting contacting for the badges and patches set up 3 years ago....



Is this also on the newer version of the rain jacket as well?  Just curious;  the RCAF and some other CAF formations/units aren't allowing skill badges  on the rain jacket (CJOC is the one other than the RCAF I know of at this time).


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## PuckChaser (22 Apr 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Is this also on the newer version of the rain jacket as well?  Just curious;  the RCAF and some other CAF formations/units aren't allowing skill badges  on the rain jacket (CJOC is the one other than the RCAF I know of at this time).



The only reference to it I had seen was on the tunic, although I can't see why they wouldn't allow it on the newer rain jacket too, as it has the same velcro. Probably why it won't happen though, makes too much sense.


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Apr 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The only reference to it I had seen was on the tunic, although I can't see why they wouldn't allow it on the newer rain jacket too, as it has the same velcro. Probably why it won't happen though, makes too much sense.



Yup.  Skill badge;  required on the flying jacket IAW our Div Os and my Wing DIs.  Rain jacket;  not allowed.   :stars:

I tried really hard to keep my older initial style RCAF version rainjacket but the zipper died on me  :'(.  Only think I could attach to it was a rank slip-on.


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## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

People should calm down.  Everyone will eventually wear the Div patches and qualification patches.  But they have to be contracted and manufactured.  What the senior Comd Teams are wearing for Div patches are intern DEU patches with velcro sewn on, they are not the final product.   And I know out in 3 Div this has all been passed down via emails and meetings.  So I'm not sure why serving members are not tracking what is happening.  I myself sent out the minutes of the last dress committee meeting that contained this info.

Jon


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## PuckChaser (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> And I know out in 3 Div this has all been passed down via emails and meetings.  So I'm not sure why serving members are not tracking what is happening.  I myself sent out the minutes of the last dress committee meeting that contained this info.



So what you're saying is that the Army has an information passage problem where the complete story doesn't get to all the troops? Colour me shocked.  :rofl:


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> My Div (an Air Div) has standards of dress that apply to all, with some of the higher rank Officers and CWOs, sometimes, sporting some fancier style of flying suit name tags perhaps.  If the AF can standardize operational dress...



... the Army, which actually represents about 200 different tribes as opposed to the Air Force and Navy's much more efficient 'single tribe each', has no hope at all.


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## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> So what you're saying is that the Army has an information passage problem where the complete story doesn't get to all the troops? Colour me shocked.  :rofl:



Shocking I know....but it is not completely unsolvable :-/

Jon


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## dimsum (28 Apr 2018)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> ... the Army, which actually represents about 200 different tribes as opposed to the Air Force and Navy's much more efficient 'single tribe each', has no hope at all.



Incorrect.  Everyone knows there's an "east coast Navy" and a "west coast Navy".   :nod:


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## Pusser (30 Apr 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Incorrect.  Everyone knows there's an "east coast Navy" and a "west coast Navy".   :nod:



Don't forget NAVRES - they hate it when we leave them out...


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## dapaterson (30 Apr 2018)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Don't forget NAVRES - they hate it when we leave them out...


So, if a sailor is posted to an Army unit, do they sew a Div patch on their NCDs?


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## Rheostatic (30 Apr 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, if a sailor is posted to an Army unit, do they sew a Div patch on their NCDs?


No, formation patches are only for the Army service and operational uniforms (according to the Dress Instruction). They would put up an Army command badge, though.


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## dapaterson (30 Apr 2018)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> No, formation patches are only for the Army service uniform (according to the Dress Instruction). They would put up an Army command badge, though.


Wait for it...


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## Nfld Sapper (30 Apr 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Wait for it...



Don't give ideas to the "good idea" fairy....


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## Rheostatic (30 Apr 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Wait for it...


Well I guess nothing would surprise me at this point.


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## dapaterson (30 Apr 2018)

I say we go all the way: MPRR embroidered on the back of the uniform.


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## BDTyre (30 Apr 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> 2 skill badges max, lower left CADPAT sleeve Velcro. In true Army fashion, being rolled out top to bottom in the CAF to increase morale of the troops. Started getting contacting for the badges and patches set up 3 years ago....



We had some Scottish cadets visit us last year and they were allowed to wear their qualification badges on their Velcro...and some of these kids had so many that they couldn't actually fit the whole badge on their pocket. Half of it was just up against the fabric. It looked pretty bad.


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Apr 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, if a sailor is posted to an Army unit, do they sew a Div patch on their NCDs?



Would it look as ...*professional*... as CADPAT slip-ons on the ncd jacket?  Then...it'll likely happen!   8)


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## tree hugger (23 Nov 2018)

The other day I saw a picture of navy recruits in CADPAT but instead of the Canadian Flag on the left shoulder, they had the Naval Ensign.
Is this a thing?  

I'm navy, wear CADPAT and have the Canadian Flag on my shoulder.  Is there a reg/policy I'm missing?


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## Pusser (23 Nov 2018)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> The other day I saw a picture of navy recruits in CADPAT but instead of the Canadian Flag on the left shoulder, they had the Naval Ensign.
> Is this a thing?
> 
> I'm navy, wear CADPAT and have the Canadian Flag on my shoulder.  Is there a reg/policy I'm missing?



I'm all for it!  Since the naval ensign includes the national flag, I see no reason to wear both.  The current interim arrangement with NCDs where we wear both a small national flag and a big ensign on the same sleeve seems odd and redundant to me.


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## Nfld Sapper (23 Nov 2018)

I know for Army (CADPAT) it will be:

Left shoulder:
Canada Flag and up to 2 Specialty Badges

Right shoulder:
Divisional Patch and Brigade Patch.

Army policy that addresses CADPAT uniform wear rolls out


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## PuckChaser (23 Nov 2018)

Probably NAVRES BMQ? I've never seen the Ensign on CADPAT, only thought it was supposed to be on NCDs as one of the 18 things that say Navy so people don't forget.


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## BDTyre (27 Nov 2018)

We recently received our manufactured DIV patches for combats. They are NOT simply the DEU div patches backed with Velcro. No, we had to go all-out for these ones...they are the dimensions of the large Canadian flag patch, but the div colour is smaller and bordered on all four sides by CADPAT. So if/when we make the switch to another camo pattern, these will all have to be turned in and new ones will have to be issued.

I haven't received one yet, so I don't have a photo of one.


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## Remius (27 Nov 2018)

Seen it here.

Looks like hot garbage.  especially the brigade patch.


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## dangerboy (27 Nov 2018)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> We recently received our manufactured DIV patches for combats. They are NOT simply the DEU div patches backed with Velcro. No, we had to go all-out for these ones...they are the dimensions of the large Canadian flag patch, but the div colour is smaller and bordered on all four sides by CADPAT. So if/when we make the switch to another camo pattern, these will all have to be turned in and new ones will have to be issued.
> 
> I haven't received one yet, so I don't have a photo of one.



Here is a DWAN link to a document that shows the patches http://materiel.mil.ca/assets/MAT_Intranet/docs/en/joint-common-clothing-small-arms/garrison-bridage-patches.pdf


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## sidemount (27 Nov 2018)

Canex sells them, plus all the other authorized patches.

http://www.canex.ca/military/cadpat-gear/4th-cdn-division-badge.html


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## AC 011 (27 Nov 2018)

$9!! No thanks.  When they want me to wear it, they'll get around to issuing it.


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## Lumber (27 Nov 2018)

Why didn't they just make it without the cadpat border?


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## McG (27 Nov 2018)

Max Power said:
			
		

> $9!! No thanks.  When they want me to wear it, they'll get around to issuing it.


I find it disappointing that we have been able to create the opportunity for soldiers to give money to Canex faster than we were able to distribute the same product to which they are entitled at crown expense.

In other thoughts: since the Bde patches are always worn together on the same spot of Velcro, why are they not produced as one piece?  And if we are going all authentic, should members of the Div HQ not be wearing a smaller white rectangle superimposed across the centre of the coloured div rectangle?


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## daftandbarmy (27 Nov 2018)

MCG said:
			
		

> I find it disappointing that we have been able to create the opportunity for soldiers to give money to Canex faster than we were able to distribute the same product to which they are entitled at crown expense.
> 
> In other thoughts: since the Bde patches are always worn together on the same spot of Velcro, why are they not produced as one piece?  And if we are going all authentic, should members of the Div HQ not be wearing a smaller white rectangle superimposed across the centre of the coloured div rectangle?



And should we not also be producing and issuing white flag patches to our enemies?


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## dimsum (27 Nov 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Why didn't they just make it without the cadpat border?



Obviously to cash in on those who'll have to buy new patches if/when we switch patterns  :nod:


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## Eagle_Eye_View (27 Nov 2018)

Sadly the CA is not the only element switching patches very 5 years. From the brief we got, the RCAF is reverting back to the “only green” patches for the flight suits. The Div order should be release shortly. Here’s to another $40 of patches for the uniform.


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## sidemount (27 Nov 2018)

How about the RCAF to go back to a rank style that actually has stitching that can be recognized from more than a foot away.
They are more tactical than the Army's high vis that you can read from a km out. 

I'm happy to still cling on to some old style combats that don't have the velcro on the sleeves.


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## dapaterson (27 Nov 2018)

The Army paid untold millions to develop an effective camouflage system, then paid thousands to make a set of ranks that would be visible on that camouflage.


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## Infanteer (27 Nov 2018)

...which doesn't really matter because you wear body armour over that rank patch anyways....


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## sidemount (27 Nov 2018)

Until we start wearing velcro rank on on the sleeves while in the field [emoji3]


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## dimsum (27 Nov 2018)

Eagle Eye View said:
			
		

> Sadly the CA is not the only element switching patches very 5 years. From the brief we got, the RCAF is reverting back to the “only green” patches for the flight suits. The Div order should be release shortly. Here’s to another $40 of patches for the uniform.



FFS, what's the reason this time?  We take them off when we go somewhere even potentially bad.  Do people not understand the point of velcro?


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## Eye In The Sky (27 Nov 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> FFS, what's the reason this time?  We take them off when we go somewhere even potentially bad.  Do people not understand the point of velcro?



New Comdr and new Comd CWO...don't throw your current ones out, because in 2 years.... ;D


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## dimsum (27 Nov 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> New Comdr and new Comd CWO...don't throw your current ones out, because in 2 years.... ;D



...I'll be posted?


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## medicineman (27 Nov 2018)

So many stupid people, not enough live ammo...because of stupid people spending money on stupid ideas.  On the bright side, nobody can shoot hte stupid people, since there isn't any live ammo.

MM


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## daftandbarmy (27 Nov 2018)

medicineman said:
			
		

> So many stupid people, not enough live ammo...because of stupid people spending money on stupid ideas.  On the bright side, nobody can shoot hte stupid people, since there isn't any live ammo.
> 
> MM



Nice. You're bucking for 'Yossarian' right there 

"They have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing." Joseph Heller


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## FSTO (28 Nov 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Probably NAVRES BMQ? I've never seen the Ensign on CADPAT, only thought it was supposed to be on NCDs as one of the 18 things that say Navy so people don't forget.



Funny because it's true. :facepalm:


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## CountDC (28 Nov 2018)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> The other day I saw a picture of navy recruits in CADPAT but instead of the Canadian Flag on the left shoulder, they had the Naval Ensign.
> Is this a thing?
> 
> I'm navy, wear CADPAT and have the Canadian Flag on my shoulder.  Is there a reg/policy I'm missing?



Maybe, depending on where you work and your job, this canforgen:   http://vcds.mil.ca/apps/canforgens/default-eng.asp?id=198-09&type=canforgen

ACCORDINGLY, CF MEMBERS ENTITLED TO THE NAVAL DISTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU) ARE HEREBY DIRECTED TO WEAR NAVAL COMBAT DRESS (NCD) IN LIEU OF CADPAT, WHERE THE CADPAT IS PERMITTED BY COMDS AND CO S AS THE DRESS OF THE DAY. EXCEPTIONS TO THIS CANFORGEN ARE PERMITTED FOR VALID OPERATIONAL REASONS ONLY, INCL EMPL IN ACTUAL FIELD OPS, FIELD TRG ACTIVITIES OR OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS 

Working at an army unit in an office does not qualify as valid reason despite the attempts to have me wear cadpat.


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## tree hugger (29 Nov 2018)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Maybe, depending on where you work and your job, this canforgen:   http://vcds.mil.ca/apps/canforgens/default-eng.asp?id=198-09&type=canforgen
> 
> ACCORDINGLY, CF MEMBERS ENTITLED TO THE NAVAL DISTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU) ARE HEREBY DIRECTED TO WEAR NAVAL COMBAT DRESS (NCD) IN LIEU OF CADPAT, WHERE THE CADPAT IS PERMITTED BY COMDS AND CO S AS THE DRESS OF THE DAY. EXCEPTIONS TO THIS CANFORGEN ARE PERMITTED FOR VALID OPERATIONAL REASONS ONLY, INCL EMPL IN ACTUAL FIELD OPS, FIELD TRG ACTIVITIES OR OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS
> 
> Working at an army unit in an office does not qualify as valid reason despite the attempts to have me wear cadpat.


Don't think you see the mental picture - my confusion wasn't CADPAT vice NCDs - it was the face the pers in the image were CADPAT with naval ensign in lieu of the Canadian Flag.


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## CountDC (29 Nov 2018)

got that but also noted you are navy wearing cadpat which in the majority of cases (high 90%) that I see this the navy person is supposed to wear NCDs.  I worry more about the fact that we have mbrs wearing completely wrong uniforms rather than ensign versus flag.


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## OceanBonfire (29 Nov 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Probably NAVRES BMQ? I've never seen the Ensign on CADPAT, only thought it was supposed to be on NCDs as one of the 18 things that say Navy so people don't forget.



Operation UNIFIER:

https://www.facebook.com/CAFinUkraine/photos/a.1323337024435027/1585991111502949/?type=3&theater

https://twitter.com/CAFinUkraine/status/1065245819174117378


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## blacktriangle (29 Nov 2018)

Are those snowflakes landing on the CADPAT? Or giant flakes of dandruff?


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## daftandbarmy (29 Nov 2018)

OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> Operation UNIFIER:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/CAFinUkraine/photos/a.1323337024435027/1585991111502949/?type=3&theater
> 
> https://twitter.com/CAFinUkraine/status/1065245819174117378



OMFG.

We have clearly bypassed the surface area of an identification symbol that can be described as 'patch' and gone straight to 'billboard'.  :rofl:


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## sidemount (29 Nov 2018)

Unless the pic is flipped, it doesnt look like the Canada flag is being replaced as it is worn on the left side...it looks like this is being worn in lieu of a div patch.


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## PuckChaser (29 Nov 2018)

sidemount said:
			
		

> Unless the pic is flipped, it doesnt look like the Canada flag is being replaced as it is worn on the left side...it looks like this is being worn in lieu of a brigade patch.



Yeah its a different scenario from what was originally posted. That position is actually in lieu of a division patch. The brigade patch would go where the UNIFIER patch is.


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## sidemount (29 Nov 2018)

Yup my mistake, edited my post to read div patch instead of brigade. 

So Navy pers wearing the ensign as opposed to a div patch seems reasonable (as reasonable as all the patch business is).
Is there a pic where it is actually taking the place of the Canada flag?


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## PuckChaser (29 Nov 2018)

I don't think its reasonable. If you're wearing CADPAT it should be with a red and white Canadian flag unless a theatre standing order indicates another specific one for operational reasons (IE the IR flags in Afghanistan). If whoever is doing this thinks CADPAT isn't "Navy" enough, they should be wearing NCDs and can throw the Ensign on there all they want in accordance with RCN dress regs.


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## sidemount (30 Nov 2018)

The Canadian Flag is on the Left side so they aren't just ditching the Canadian Flag. If Navy Pers are in CADPAT, why not have the Ensign in place of the Div patch. If we are going all "patchy" what difference does it make.


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## OceanBonfire (24 Dec 2018)

https://www.facebook.com/CAFOperations/posts/2389200164440618?__tn__=-R


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## dimsum (27 Dec 2018)

My question about those pics is why the 2 Army folks (with the crossed swords next to the nametape) are also wearing the RCN ensign?  Does everyone working on an RCN mission wear it on operational uniform?


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## Eye In The Sky (27 Dec 2018)

It also looks like they're all wearing the rank in black thread slip-ons ???


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## SupersonicMax (27 Dec 2018)

So much debate on dress (and dress minutia of all!).


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Dec 2018)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> So much debate on dress (and dress minutia of all!).



What do you consider dress minutia?


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## dimsum (28 Dec 2018)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> So much debate on dress (and dress minutia of all!).



Meh, I was just curious.  I think having rank slides and nametapes that you can read more than 0.5cm away is a good idea.  

The 'Roo inside the Maple Leaf on their ball caps is a nice touch.


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## SupersonicMax (28 Dec 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> What do you consider dress minutia?



Ensign vs flag
Color of patches
Wearing NCDs for Navy folks on Army/Air Force bases

None of which affect the outcome of a task/mission.


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Dec 2018)

Agreed, we've gone a little overboard with it.  At my level, I don't get to decide it, just police and enforce it.  There seems to be an appetite for flashy things and/or patches and overdoing the "unique appearance" in both service dress and operational dress.  It seems to be the 'in thing', and not just in the CAF.

Regardless of how 'overdone' our current operational dress is, we (Officers, Warrant/Petty Officers, Snr and Jnr NCOs) still have a duty to know, police and enforce the direction from higher and to set a high standard for those we lead to follow.  Funny, though, the worst I've seen the patch police out since going AF was IMPACT ROTO 0 and...according to my Det HQ it was a fairly big focus of the ATF-I Commander.  Wasn't he a fighter guy?   8)  

*IF YOU WEAR YOUR SQN HERALDIC CREST OR PET THE CATS...ISIS WINS!!!*


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Dec 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Meh, I was just curious.  I think having rank slides and nametapes that you can read more than 0.5cm away is a good idea.



Maybe they couldn't get the 'right' ones from Clothing Stores and bought their own.  I've seen that happen before when Supply couldn't get CADPAT or flight suit nametags/badges;  there was 'no contract' in place or something. 



> The 'Roo inside the Maple Leaf on their ball caps is a nice touch.



yup!


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## daftandbarmy (29 Dec 2018)

As far as the Infantry is concerned, it should all come off before any kind of recce/ fighting patrol anyways  :nod:


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## Haggis (29 Dec 2018)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> As far as the Infantry is concerned, it should all come off before any kind of recce/ fighting patrol anyways  :nod:



To ensure OPSEC, each patrol will have a rear party of one soldier who collects the bling at the FLOT and returns it when the patrol RTBs.


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## Good2Golf (29 Dec 2018)

I like how the Army bubba has his sleeves rolled down in the Persian Gulf. Good lad for following the regulations directives.


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## PMedMoe (29 Dec 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I like how the Army bubba has his sleeves rolled down in the Persian Gulf. Good lad for following the regulations directives.



Speaking of sleeve rolling, the rest could sure use a lesson on it....   :


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## MJP (29 Dec 2018)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Speaking of sleeve rolling, the rest could sure use a lesson on it....   :


The new combats are junk for rolling sleeves, although why someone would want a wet ball of fabric sitting on their arms is beyond me anyway.  Not t mention sleeves down is a much better way to deal with the sun, pests and other occupational hazards!


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## dimsum (29 Dec 2018)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Speaking of sleeve rolling, the rest could sure use a lesson on it....   :



You can't cover the patches!   :tsktsk:


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## PMedMoe (29 Dec 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> Not t mention sleeves down is a much better way to deal with the sun, pests and other occupational hazards!



This is true.



			
				Dimsum said:
			
		

> You can't cover the patches!   :tsktsk:



Once again, can I say how glad I am to be out?


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## Blackadder1916 (29 Dec 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> Not t mention sleeves down is a much better way to deal with the sun, pests and other occupational hazards!



But if you put the sleeves down how are you going to get a great "farmer's tan"?


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## dimsum (29 Dec 2018)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> But if you put the sleeves down how are you going to get a great "farmer's tan"?



Wait, that's what people *want* these days?

Millennials, I tell ya.   :rofl:


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## FSTO (29 Dec 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Wait, that's what people *want* these days?
> 
> Millennials, I tell ya.   :rofl:



Heaven forbid they actually went outside and did some actual work to get the sunburned arms.


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## Journeyman (30 Dec 2018)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> But if you put the sleeves down how are you going to get a great "farmer's tan"?


Leaders set the example;  the farmer's tan starts at mid-forearm... if you're cool.   :nod:


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## FSTO (30 Dec 2018)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Leaders set the example;  the farmer's tan starts at mid-forearm... if you're cool.   :nod:



My late father who was an actual farmer rocked the best tan. I still remember the one time I saw him at our local beach wearing a swimsuit. From just above the elbow to his finger tips the tan was a very very dark brown. Same with the face as the tan started about an inch from the top of the eye brows. On the other hand, his torso, legs and forehead were so white he reflected the sunlight!


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## dapaterson (30 Dec 2018)

AKA CFSME students at Earthquake Annie's in the '90s.


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## daftandbarmy (31 Dec 2018)

Since we're on the subject of sleeve rolling.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkLrahyKxA8


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## OceanBonfire (1 Feb 2019)

sidemount said:
			
		

> The Canadian Flag is on the Left side so they aren't just ditching the Canadian Flag. If Navy Pers are in CADPAT, why not have the Ensign in place of the Div patch. If we are going all "patchy" what difference does it make.



Some with the Canada flag on the right side/arm as shown in this picture:









> https://www.facebook.com/CAFOperations/photos/pcb.2447161661977801/2447160965311204


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## sidemount (1 Feb 2019)

I've seen so many different variations since my post back in Nov that I really don't know what to make of it anymore.
Standardization seems to be right out the window, but I guess that doesn't matter these days.


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## Eye In The Sky (2 Feb 2019)

For the RCAF folks, if you didn't know you should hear that the CADO (1-106) has been released for how things will be worn.  Looks like it made sense to me.  The 4 x 2 Cdn flag will only be worn on the left side, that includes the ECU, CCR (raingear)...not sure if the other environments and commands are adopting the same standard.


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## dimsum (2 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> For the RCAF folks, if you didn't know you should hear that the CADO (1-106) has been released for how things will be worn.  Looks like it made sense to me.  The 4 x 2 Cdn flag will only be worn on the left side, that includes the ECU, CCR (raingear)...not sure if the other environments and commands are adopting the same standard.



Is that the one that authorized, then de-authorized, the wings on sleeves of new CADPAT?


----------



## Eye In The Sky (2 Feb 2019)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Is that the one that authorized, then de-authorized, the wings on sleeves of new CADPAT?



Nope, they are authorized on both the ECU and the CCR (Converged CADPAT raingear).  The patches auth on the raingear are the exact same as those on the newer CADPAT (ECU), which is para 18 of the CADO.


----------



## OceanBonfire (3 Feb 2019)

Air Force personnel with the flag on the right side:








> https://www.stripes.com/news/canadian-troops-in-bahrain-bust-drug-runners-on-the-hash-highway-1.566363


----------



## daftandbarmy (3 Feb 2019)

OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> Air Force personnel with the flag on the right side:



That's OK. They're in the Middle East where, you know, they read Arabic from right to left


----------



## BDTyre (4 Feb 2019)

Maybe they think they're still in KAF? Or they forgot their IFF?

Although technically they do have the flag on the left...



			
				OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> Air Force personnel with the flag on the right side:


----------



## Eye In The Sky (4 Feb 2019)

OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> Air Force personnel with the flag on the right side:



CJOC has...different DIs than the RCAF.  I wasn't allowed to wear my Heraldic crest when I was cut over to CJOC; it's not an _optional_ badge in the CADO IIRC.

Then there's that Ch 1, Para 8 stuff from CFP 265... 

 8)


----------



## FSTO (8 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ok, I'll just leave this one here...https://www.facebook.com/saceur/photos/a.1691482787768602/2189059468010929/?type=3&theater



So the stars are for the Americans to know he's a Major General? They can't figure that out with the two leaves?  :facepalm:


----------



## Pusser (8 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ok, I'll just leave this one here...https://www.facebook.com/saceur/photos/a.1691482787768602/2189059468010929/?type=3&theater



Absolutely disgraceful.  Not only is it insulting for the CAF to be "Americanizing" it's uniform, it also doesn't say much about the intelligence of our allies, that they can't figure out other nations' rank insignia.


----------



## daftandbarmy (8 Feb 2019)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Absolutely disgraceful.  Not only is it insulting for the CAF to be "Americanizing" it's uniform, it also doesn't say much about the intelligence of our allies, that they can't figure out other nations' rank insignia.



When we hide in the elephant's shadow, we shouldn't be surprised when we can't see the light.


----------



## dimsum (8 Feb 2019)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Absolutely disgraceful.  Not only is it insulting for the CAF to be "Americanizing" it's uniform, it also doesn't say much about the intelligence of our allies, that they can't figure out other nations' rank insignia.



In true Canadian fashion, we probably took that idea off the Brits who did it in Desert Storm (I think).


----------



## Old Sweat (8 Feb 2019)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> In true Canadian fashion, we probably took that idea off the Brits who did it in Desert Storm (I think).



I believe 13 Brigade wore both Canadian and American badges of rank in the Aleutian campaign in 1943.


----------



## BDTyre (8 Feb 2019)

Back to the issue of Div patches, I noticed that CP Gear now offers wool DEU Div patches (meaning no CADPAT, just the div colour patch) and the default is to have them Velcro back. While this makes sense to me, I wonder how long before someone gets in trouble for wearing that on combats?

http://www.cpgear.com/create_products/Division-Patches-Wool-?c=5024397&dp=2&n=83303857


----------



## Good2Golf (8 Feb 2019)

EITS, in your haste to point out the oppression of the proletariat, you forgot to highlight Para 6 in your extract from the 265...you know, the part where Gen Vance authorizes LGen Rouleau (a Commander of a Command) to apply a policy as operationally appropriate, whereby CAF elements are appropriately identifiable in an operational (coalition in this case) environment. People can get all hot under the collar and insinuate that MGen Fortin is just making s*** up, but you’ll probably see such policy-compliant (Para 6 and Section 5-D-2 again) accommodation in coalition environments to aid others to clearly understand positional/rank structure. Just because MGen Fortin has the same number of leaves on his slip-on doesn’t mean that coalition members understand a Leaf and a star has a direct 1:1 mapping (although leaves are more intuitive to a wide coalition audience than swords, crowns and pips were.  I do hope you get the opportunity in a theatre town hall or the like to state your discontent of his application of the CFP265 to LGen Rouleau.

:2c:

Regards
G2G


----------



## RedcapCrusader (8 Feb 2019)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> EITS, in your haste to point out the oppression of the proletariat, you forgot to highlight Para 6 in your extract from the 265...you know, the part where Gen Vance authorizes LGen Rouleau (a Commander of a Command) to apply a policy as operationally appropriate, whereby CAF elements are appropriately identifiable in an operational (coalition in this case) environment. People can get all hot under the collar and insinuate that MGen Fortin is just making s*** up, but you’ll probably see such policy-compliant (Para 6 and Section 5-D-2 again) accommodation in coalition environments to aid others to clearly understand positional/rank structure. Just because MGen Fortin has the same number of leaves on his slip-on doesn’t mean that coalition members understand a Leaf and a star has a direct 1:1 mapping (although leaves are more intuitive to a wide coalition audience than swords, crowns and pips were.  I do hope you get the opportunity in a theatre town hall or the like to state your discontent of his application of the CFP265 to LGen Rouleau.
> 
> :2c:
> 
> ...



I was going to say something along the lines of "Bro, chill" but you did it much better.



The black on tan is the new deal as a High Vis system for the Arid uniforms. They are available for all ranks and elements. You can see everyone involved with CTF150 in Bahrain wearing them, from Corporal to Commodore. However, just like the initial rollout of the Army High Vis rank and nametapes, there is not enough to go around for everyone.

Additionally, that photo ETIS posted of the RCAF Commander and his Chief giving the Door Gunner badge, they were coming from Canada, wearing whatever they had issued to them. Comd RCAF had lost his luggage and borrowed a uniform on the ground. There were no rank insignia or nametapes available to him.


----------



## Good2Golf (8 Feb 2019)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> ...Additionally, that photo ETIS posted of the RCAF Commander and his Chief giving the Door Gunner badge, they were coming from Canada, wearing whatever they had issued to them. Comd RCAF had lost his luggage and borrowed a uniform on the ground. There were no rank insignia or nametapes available to him.



Absolutely, LM! Comd RCAF and I went through basic training together a few years ago...you won’t find a “straighter arrow” in the whole CAF than LGen Meinzinger.  That said, I bet you his ADC will always have a back-up set of name tag and slip-on from now on. 

Regards
G2G


----------



## Good2Golf (8 Feb 2019)

Since the CFP-265 is widely regarded as the most kept-up-to-date document in the CAF, you must be right that LGen Rouleau has no authority.  This is indeed a travesty and really should be a key item for the CDS’ daily OGp, leaving lesser important issues such as Departmental responses to ATIP requests and recruiting and retention to be addressed at a later date. 

[/sarc]

G2G


----------



## OceanBonfire (8 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> So...why the sudden need for US Army stars?  ...



We've been doing it for a while:









> https://www.army.mil/article/41733/canadian_general_bids_adieu_to_fort_bragg


----------



## daftandbarmy (8 Feb 2019)

OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> We've been doing it for a while:



Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo    :facepalm:


----------



## Good2Golf (8 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> ...*I don't care so much about the dress instructions...I DO care greatly about  (1) standards that only apply to some, but it only being the rank and file are held accountable it when they color outside the lines*.



Just not enough by your own admission/explanation to speak Truth to Power to someone you believe to be complicit in perpetuating the problem?

???

Regards
G2G


----------



## OceanBonfire (8 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> At least for 9 years.   :nod:
> 
> hey, I know someone who has been smoking dope while serving for 10 years before WEEDFORGEN.  I guess, because they've been doing it for so long, that just makes it ok?  Or was there some kind of...regulation or instruction...hmmmm.



I meant that it wasn't suddenly recent as of just now, but as to why then the easiest assumption would be for American troops to easily figure it out as your experience showed it.

People mocking of others not figuring out ranks should have a look at the NATO ranks equivalency and I would like to see them easily figure out a rank.


----------



## RedcapCrusader (8 Feb 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Would you say that if you were, technically, out of dress for a parade or something, or one of your troops was and for that 'bro, chill' level offence, getting extra's or RMs or a UDI for doing the same sort of things and it was caught in a pic on social media?  I've said it before, I'll say it again;  I don't get to decide what things I enforce and which ones I don't.  I get to use some common sense sometimes on the application...that's it.  I advise the Officers I work with at my level; that level isn't GOFOs.  I enforce the orders on everything including dress on my subordinates because its part of my job.  It's really that black and white.
> 
> If the dress regs are 'relaxed', then it should be for everyone.  Full stop.
> 
> I was on parade for my Sqn CofC last year, and the Wing CofC the year before that.  I can imagine the conversations with my SCWO if I would have showed up on parade day in Air Force 1As with my beret on.  *I don't care so much about the dress instructions...I DO care greatly about  (1) standards that only apply to some, but it only being the rank and file are held accountable it when they color outside the lines*.  I've seen it too many times.  Rank has it privileges, I get that too.  It also has it's responsibilities;  one of them being 'lead by example'.



I wore a "battle badge" with my name, rank, allergies etc. In English and Arabic and my rank equivalent to US and Iraqi counterparts as a lowly MCpl, does that help settle things?

I also wore Danish Army rank while on exchange with them.

I also wore an unauthorized uniform of Tac Hel Pants and Hybrid Combat shirt.

Now, I can't access the actual instructions but hasn't the new Operational Dress Instruction addressed most if not all of these issues?


CANFORGEN 168/18 COMD CA 025/18 091244Z OCT 18
CA OPERATIONAL DRESS INSTRUCTIONS

Edit:

Now that I think about it, my CSM wore US equivalent rank on his sleeve in Kabul, and my Team Leader (WO) wore US and Norwegian rank as we worked closely with them.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Feb 2019)

Sometimes you need to check yourself before you start a series of posts that...well, they're of no benefit and you're ranting like a Week 7 recruit.  That was me in this thread earlier.  My apologies, folks.

This should have been my queue that I wasn't only off the hardstand, I was a few hundred meters into the cattails and making _awfully_  good time.



			
				CanadianTire said:
			
		

> Back to the issue of Div patches, I noticed that CP Gear now offers wool DEU Div patches (meaning no CADPAT, just the div colour patch) and the default is to have them Velcro back. While this makes sense to me, I wonder how long before someone gets in trouble for wearing that on combats?
> 
> http://www.cpgear.com/create_products/Division-Patches-Wool-?c=5024397&dp=2&n=83303857



EITS


----------



## Somerandomfellow (7 May 2019)

Hello all:

I’ve created a morale patch for my unit. I was wondering if anyone knows who makes the patches?

Do I just submit a picture or a digital copy, along with a memo and send it up the chain to the CO and let the powers that be take care of the rest?

Has anyone submitted for a patch with success? 

I took a look at the CANFORGEN and it doesn’t say much. 

Just a quick reference or few sentences to get me on the right track and I should be able to handle the rest.

Thanks in advance, hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## Somerandomfellow (7 May 2019)

The CANFORGEN says the Canex does it? I’m not sure if that’s morale patches or just the standard badges and slips though.


----------



## kratz (7 May 2019)

Reference:  Naval Dress Committee Update 01/2018 : NAVGEN 018/18



> C. OPTIONAL CURRENT MORALE, DEPLOYMENT OR MISSION PATCH: MAY BE WORN
> CENTERED ON THE RIGHT ARM POCKET. PATCH MUST BE APPROVED BY THE
> RESPECTIVE FORMATION DRESS COMMITTEE PRIOR TO BEING WORN TO ENSURE IT
> IS IN GOOD TASTE AND DOES NOT VIOLATE COPYRIGHT. ONCE FORMATION
> ...



Send your suggestion through your Formation's Dress Committee, if you are following the references.


----------



## Haggis (7 May 2019)

kratz said:
			
		

> Reference:  Naval Dress Committee Update 01/2018 : NAVGEN 018/18
> 
> Send your suggestion through your Formation's Dress Committee, if you are following the references.



And only if you are Navy.  The other commands may have different policies, or none at all.


----------



## kratz (7 May 2019)

Haggis said:
			
		

> And only if you are Navy.  The other commands may have different policies, or none at all.



His profile mentions Leading Seaman and Navy unit.


----------



## Matinee X (9 Feb 2020)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I don't think its reasonable. If you're wearing CADPAT it should be with a red and white Canadian flag unless a theatre standing order indicates another specific one for operational reasons (IE the IR flags in Afghanistan). If whoever is doing this thinks CADPAT isn't "Navy" enough, they should be wearing NCDs and can throw the Ensign on there all they want in accordance with RCN dress regs.


And why don't you think there was a directive to wear the patches? Considering they are issued in theatre.


----------



## Matinee X (9 Feb 2020)

OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> https://www.facebook.com/CAFOperations/posts/2389200164440618?__tn__=-R
> 
> Dude. Arent you a sailor? CTF 150 is a navy org.
> Hence the e
> Ensign patch.


----------



## daftandbarmy (9 Feb 2020)

Holy moley.... that is a 'Plethora of Patches' right there...  :nod:


----------



## OceanBonfire (10 Feb 2020)

Matinee X said:
			
		

> Dude. Arent you a sailor? CTF 150 is a navy org.
> Hence the e
> Ensign patch.



Assuming what I'm quoting is your reply, I'm not sure what you're getting at as I didn't inquire why the Navy was wearing the Naval ensign on their uniform in the conversation.


----------



## Kilted (29 Apr 2022)

I just saw that the PSYOPS and CIMIC patches have appeared on CANEX. I heard rumours About these years ago. Does anyone know if they will have a DEU version as well?


----------



## Eye In The Sky (29 Apr 2022)

How are these categorized; USQs or something?    I haven’t seen any Gen on this but my flow is from a WCWO.

I’m not a SME but I think the first step would be requests for them to be recognized as a specialist and then the process to get them approved, like RCAF did for Space Specialists and the RCN did with their FP and Boarding party members.  I’d guess this would be a C Army initiative?






						Dress instructions | Section 3 Flying and specialist skill badges - Canada.ca
					

dress




					www.canada.ca
				









						Navy News | New skill badges recognize unique naval operations qualifications
					

New skill badges recognize unique naval operations qualifications




					www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca
				





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313874363930865664


----------



## Kilted (29 Apr 2022)

For reference: PSYOPS, CADPAT


----------



## lenaitch (30 Apr 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> Holy moley.... that is a 'Plethora of Patches' right there...  :nod:


Na . . . this is a plethora:


----------



## daftandbarmy (30 Apr 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> How are these categorized; USQs or something?    I haven’t seen any Gen on this but my flow is from a WCWO.
> 
> I’m not a SME but I think the first step would be requests for them to be recognized as a specialist and then the process to get them approved, like RCAF did for Space Specialists and the RCN did with their FP and Boarding party members.  I’d guess this would be a C Army initiative?
> 
> ...



Only Canada could produce such and ugly and boring patch for a Space Wars Qualification


----------



## GR66 (30 Apr 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> Only Canada could produce such and ugly and boring patch for a Space Wars Qualification


You'll have to excuse my ignorance but I know nothing about the symbolic meaning behind the heraldic images on the Space Specialist Badge.



Does the louvered floor vent in the middle symbolize their working in an air conditioned environment???


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Apr 2022)

Not quite…

_The satellite surrounding the globe represents Alouette I, the first Canadian satellite. Its ellipse represent the orbital path traced by the satellites in orbit._






						CAF Space Specialist Skill Badge poster - Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca
					

Space Specialist Skill Badge poster




					www.canada.ca
				




I’ll guess they didn’t use the silhouette of Alouette 1 because the shape didn’t fit inside the badge shape well?   

The “air vent” shape seems more in line with RADARSAT-2.  🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Kilted (30 Apr 2022)

GR66 said:


> You'll have to excuse my ignorance but I know nothing about the symbolic meaning behind the heraldic images on the Space Specialist Badge.
> 
> View attachment 70442
> 
> Does the louvered floor vent in the middle symbolize their working in an air conditioned environment???








						Space Insignia
					






					www.gg.ca
				




It appears to have been granted during David Johnson's time.


----------



## Good2Golf (30 Apr 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> Only Canada could produce such and ugly and boring patch for a Space Wars Qualification


It looks more like the LEO (low earth orbit) badge…


----------



## OldSolduer (30 Apr 2022)

I thought they’d use the Death Star??? Or an X Wing fighter??


----------



## dimsum (30 Apr 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> I thought they’d use the Death Star??? Or an X Wing fighter??


Let's be serious - it'd be what Jar Jar Binks used.


----------



## Weinie (30 Apr 2022)

dimsum said:


> Let's be serious - it'd be what Jar Jar Binks used.


Best actor ever.


----------



## Edward Campbell (30 Apr 2022)

There is something fundamentally wrong with a military force that is content to have more flippin' morale patches than it has warships or howitzers. There is something every more wrong with a country that is content to tolerate that military force.


----------



## dimsum (30 Apr 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> There is something fundamentally wrong with a military force that is content to have more flippin' morale patches than it has warships or howitzers. There is something every more wrong with a country that is content to tolerate that military force.


I'll slightly disagree there, because I don't think trade/specialization badges aren't "morale patches".  

Trade badges are a quick way to see if the person you're talking to is the right person.  I have said this before, but I'm shocked why the NCDs don't have trade badges when things could get loud, everyone is in flash gear, and you're trying to quickly find a specific trade member to do something in their specialty.  

If someone is wearing CADPAT and their slip-on says Logistics (or Canada, most of the time), it'd be nice to see if they're an HRA, FSA, Supply, or something else.  

Specialization badges also tell a story.  Someone with, for example, the ICP badge on their uniform would probably know their stuff about how to teach pilots.   

I'm not saying we should go full US and put every badge on there, but trade badge and some specialization badges aren't a bad thing.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Apr 2022)

dimsum said:


> Someone with, for example, the ICP badge on their uniform would probably know their stuff about how to evaluate pilots on their instrument rating test how to teach pilots.


FTFY


----------



## dimsum (30 Apr 2022)

SupersonicMax said:


> FTFY


Yeah - a couple of drinks in.  Oops.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Apr 2022)

dimsum said:


> I'll slightly disagree there, because I don't think trade/specialization badges aren't "morale patches".
> 
> Trade badges are a quick way to see if the person you're talking to is the right person.  I have said this before, but I'm shocked why the NCDs don't have trade badges when things could get loud, everyone is in flash gear, and you're trying to quickly find a specific trade member to do something in their specialty.
> 
> ...



I have seen a few people with this patch on their ECUs and, as a person who recognizes it, I know they have a certain type of experience that is unique.  Same as the techs wearing the Lev-C etc. 

It’s not really a bad thing.  The requests for specialist badges are put thru the process and approved.  They’re no different than Jump Wings…









						18151 590 A - Space Specialist Skill Badge - Air Force Personnel Only
					

18151 590 A - Space Specialist Skill Badge - Air Force Personnel Only




					dbembroiderysolutions.com


----------



## OldSolduer (30 Apr 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> There is something fundamentally wrong with a military force that is content to have more flippin' morale patches than it has warships or howitzers. There is something every more wrong with a country that is content to tolerate that military force.


 They are only emulating leaders who value style over substance. 

I recall the trade badges and marksmanship badges we all sported on our DEU.  Did the soldiers of  earlier generations have trade badges?


----------



## Good2Golf (1 May 2022)

dimsum said:


> Yeah - a couple of drinks in.  Oops.


I just thought your phone autocorrected QFI. 😉


----------



## Good2Golf (1 May 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> I have seen a few people with this patch on their ECUs and, as a person who recognizes it, I know they have a certain type of experience that is unique.  Same as the techs wearing the Lev-C etc.
> 
> It’s not really a bad thing.  The requests for specialist badges are put thru the process and approved.  They’re no different than *white* Jump Wings…
> 
> ...


😉


----------



## dangerboy (1 May 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> They are only emulating leaders who value style over substance.
> 
> I recall the trade badges and marksmanship badges we all sported on our DEU.  Did the soldiers of  earlier generations have trade badges?


This website shows off some of the older Army ones:  http://jfchalifoux.com/army_trade_badges.htm


----------



## Edward Campbell (1 May 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> They are only emulating leaders who value style over substance.
> 
> I recall the trade badges and marksmanship badges we all sported on our DEU.  Did the soldiers of  earlier generations have trade badges?


Yes, we did. Badges showed: 1st your Corps or Regiment which gave people _some_ idea about what sort of soldier you were; 2nd your rank which showed people how "important" you were to your organization; 3rd your trade and the level of your skill ~ with a couple of exceptions (Signals, for example, did not have individual trade badges (security reasons) but the blue and white crossed flags did show Group 1, 2, 3 or 4); 4th special skills - parachuting, EOD, etc; 5th marksmanship level; and 6th good conduct.
I recall a short Staff Sergeant (name of Barnesdale, actually) - about 5 foot f_ _k all with both hands in the air - his arm was chock-a-block full with marksmanship (crossed rifles and crown) three chevrons a silver 'Jimmy' above them, a crown above the Jimmy then a red Div Patch and his corps shoulder flash.
It was not uncommon to see a corporal with there upside down chevrons on the bottom of his sleeve (nine years of undetected crime) then the crossed rifles and his (we were about 99% male back then, in most Army corps, anyway) rank and then his div patch and corps or regimental shoulder flash - some of which (e.g. PPCLI) were quite small but others (The RCR) were quite large.


----------



## dimsum (1 May 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> I just thought your phone autocorrected QFI. 😉


Shows how many drinks I had last night - I was meaning QFI but typed ICP instead


----------



## Good2Golf (1 May 2022)

dimsum said:


> Shows how many drinks I had last night - I was meaning QFI but typed ICP instead


Probably should stay away from Wordle too… 😉


----------



## SeaKingTacco (1 May 2022)

dimsum said:


> Yeah - a couple of drinks in.  Oops.


You were thinking QFI…


----------



## Eye In The Sky (1 May 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> Yes, we did. 4th special skills - parachuting, EOD, etc;



The Space Specialist...is a "special skill".   So, in essence, the CAF has just added to a list that already exists.


----------



## ueo (7 May 2022)

dimsum said:


> I'll slightly disagree there, because I don't think trade/specialization badges aren't "morale patches".
> 
> Trade badges are a quick way to see if the person you're talking to is the right person.  I have said this before, but I'm shocked why the NCDs don't have trade badges when things could get loud, everyone is in flash gear, and you're trying to quickly find a specific trade member to do something in their specialty.
> 
> ...


God love us... World and CF rapidly going to hell in a hand basket and the Dress Committee (WHY?)and other alledged adults are worried about trades and related badges. Cmon folks focus on things ( retention, recruiting, new systems) rather than this crap! Space Command- WTF again why?


----------



## dimsum (7 May 2022)

ueo said:


> God love us... World and CF rapidly going to hell in a hand basket and the Dress Committee (WHY?)and other alledged adults are worried about trades and related badges. Cmon folks focus on things ( retention, recruiting, new systems) rather than this crap! Space Command- WTF again why?


Because it's not like only one file can progress at a time.  Who says the same people that are working the retention, recruiting, and new systems files are the same ones doing patches?  They aren't.

Space is important, if nothing else than protecting GPS and related things.  Think about how important GPS is to daily life, let alone military assets.  Related to that, Cyber is also important.  Neither are "sexy" things that would draw people into airshows or anything, but they are essential to modern militaries.

Imagine how it would go if Ukraine didn't have the ISR feeds (at least partially routed through space assets) to give to their RPAs (also at least partially controlled via space assets) to attack Russian forces.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (7 May 2022)

ueo said:


> God love us... World and CF rapidly going to hell in a hand basket and the Dress Committee (WHY?)and other alledged adults are worried about trades and related badges. Cmon folks focus on things ( retention, recruiting, new systems) rather than this crap! Space Command- WTF again why?



 Door gunners are just cbt arms NCMs who do a 3 year stint with TacHel.  They get a specialist badge (as they should).

Space Specialists are the same thing but that fill space roles in the USAF and CAF.  They must complete specific coursing and postings to earn and wear the badge.

Just like Operational Jump Wings (a specialist badge).  EOD.  All the diver badges…

Or should we just do away with the whole specialist badge collection?

I have a small bit of perspective perhaps, from taking the Basic Space Operations Course and somewhat understanding the level of technical expertise needed as well as what jobs are being done, and where.

They are a small group of specialists in the CAF, like many of our specialists are.  I think it only appropriate to recognize their skills and contributions like the other specialists I’ve mentioned.

It’s not like the fighter replacement was put on hold while this badge was in progress.

For the record, I’m not part of the Space Specialist group and will never benefit from the patch.  


Anyone interested in taking the Basic Space Operations Course, it is available via self-registration on the DLN.  You will see it listed as Barker College Basic Space Operations - just search “Space” “BSOC” etc.  

It was one of the more interesting courses I have taken since retreading to the Air Force.


----------



## Jarnhamar (7 May 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> The Space Specialist...is a "special skill".   So, in essence, the CAF has just added to a list that already exists.


I may have missed it, any idea what the criteria for the badge is?


----------



## dimsum (7 May 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> I may have missed it, any idea what the criteria for the badge is?



The SSSB is awarded to Joint space cadre personnel who meet all of the following merit criteria, any part of which must have been met on or after 15 April 2014:

a.  Successfully complete the Basic Space Operations Course (BSOC), the Space Operations Course (SOC), Space Operations Course - Executive (SOC-E), a foreign equivalent (USAF Space 100 course, USAF Space 200 course, etc.), space-related academic degree, or the first year of a basic Astronaut Candidate training program; and

b.  Be employed in a space position for a minimum of 365 cumulative days after achievement of Operationally Functional Point (OFP) in the respective career field.









						INTRODUCTION OF THE SPACE SPECIALIST SKILL BADGE
					

CANFORGEN 062/20 C AIR FORCE 11/20 031640Z MAY 20  INTRODUCTION OF THE SPACE SPECIALIST SKILL BADGE  UNCLASSIFIED  REFS: A. DIRECTORATE OF HISTORY AND HERITAGE SPACE INSIGNIA HERALDIC DESIGN, APPROVED 15 APR 2014  B. CFAO 55-10 - THE CREATION AND AWARDING OF CANADIAN FORCES FLYING AND SPECIALIST...




					army.ca


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## Jarnhamar (7 May 2022)

Neat, thanks!


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## dangerboy (7 May 2022)

dimsum said:


> The SSSB is awarded to Joint space cadre personnel who meet all of the following merit criteria, any part of which must have been met on or after 15 April 2014:
> 
> a.  Successfully complete the Basic Space Operations Course (BSOC), the Space Operations Course (SOC), Space Operations Course - Executive (SOC-E), a foreign equivalent (USAF Space 100 course, USAF Space 200 course, etc.), space-related academic degree, or the first year of a basic Astronaut Candidate training program; and
> 
> ...


So did former Governor General Julie Payette wear one?


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## Eye In The Sky (7 May 2022)

that was the SCNJ (Space Cadet No Job) badge.


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## Gunplumber (20 Jun 2022)

Does anyone have the regulations on what criteria you need for the Special Forces or Ranger Tabs for DEU and Cadpat?


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Jun 2022)

Should be here:






						Dress instructions | Section 3 Flying and specialist skill badges - Canada.ca
					

dress




					www.canada.ca


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## daftandbarmy (20 Jun 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Should be here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's so sad that the Space badge is so... so... sad


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## PuckChaser (20 Jun 2022)

Gunplumber said:


> Does anyone have the regulations on what criteria you need for the Special Forces or Ranger Tabs for DEU and Cadpat?


First step is actually getting loaded onto those courses. Second step is passing.


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Jun 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> It's so sad that the Space badge is so... so... sad



…or that the dress instructions lumped non-aircrew in with aircrew / didn’t update the orders to match the figures.  Pick one and make them match ffs.


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## Good2Golf (21 Jun 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> It's so sad that the Space badge is so... so... sad


What, a maple leaf with bendy solar panels, zipping along the 401, doesn’t do it for you? 😆 

The Navy is still ‘winning’ with the NWO ‘moustache’….I mean, once it’s actually approved and put in the instructions…


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## The Bread Guy (21 Jun 2022)

dangerboy said:


> So did former Governor General Julie Payette wear one?


Would she be eligible for some kind of combatives badge, at least?


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## Spencer100 (21 Jun 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> It's so sad that the Space badge is so... so... sad


but with the announcement of Canada investing in new sats. a growth field....


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## PuckChaser (21 Jun 2022)

Release Clerks are a growth field right now but we don't have a specialist skill badge for them...


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## dapaterson (21 Jun 2022)

I'm certain we could get CP Gear to make CADPAT squares embroidered with GTFO on them.


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## OldSolduer (22 Jun 2022)

dapaterson said:


> I'm certain we could get CP Gear to make CADPAT squares embroidered with GTFO on them.


Or WTF???


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## medicineman (22 Jun 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> Or WTF???


Or FML?


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## OldSolduer (22 Jun 2022)

medicineman said:


> Or FML?


The Suckmeter was always a good one.


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## medicineman (22 Jun 2022)

I still have my "Stupid Allergy" on my daysack - were I to get back in, I'd consider putting it on my patch side.


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## OldSolduer (22 Jun 2022)

medicineman said:


> I still have my "Stupid Allergy" on my daysack - were I to get back in, I'd consider putting it on my patch side.


I am sure there is a lot of stuff I'd have loved to stick on BUT there is that "Lead by Example" thing we have going on....


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## Skysix (23 Jun 2022)




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## medicineman (23 Jun 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> I am sure there is a lot of stuff I'd have loved to stick on BUT there is that "Lead by Example" thing we have going on....


I'd say "Stupid Allergy" is an example to lead by...and something to give people pause before speaking...


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## The Bread Guy (23 Jun 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> It's so sad that the Space badge is so... so... sad


More than made up for by the cadpat that comes with it, right?


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## Kilted (23 Jun 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> I am sure there is a lot of stuff I'd have loved to stick on BUT there is that "Lead by Example" thing we have going on....


There is already enough of a problem of random troops throwing whatever they want on the uniform, and it somehow making its way onto CAF-controlled social media accounts.


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