# Borden VS CFLRS



## lost4words (5 Sep 2008)

I was told by my recruiting center today that there is a good chance that I will wind up in Borden this time around.  I was just wondering what the big difference between the two schools are.  For example, in borden, do you still get platoon shirts and do they take pictures in field, like they do at CFLRS?


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## aesop081 (5 Sep 2008)

lost4words said:
			
		

> .  For example, in borden, do you still get platoon shirts and do they take pictures in field, like they do at CFLRS?



Is this really what you consider a "big difference " ?

Are those things even significant ?


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## lost4words (5 Sep 2008)

No, to be honest I am confident that regardless of where I go, I be trained well.  I was most curious on the, shall we say perks?  "big Differences" was obviously a wrong choice of words.


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## Klinkaroo (5 Sep 2008)

Yes you get picture in field, if you want a platoon shirt you have to organize it yourselves.

I did my basic in Borden, one thing from what I heard that is a great perk, building is only two floors in Borden so you either sleep on the first or second, which if you do the math is a lot less stairs then being on the 14th in CFLRS...


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## Nuggs (14 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> I did my basic in Borden, one thing from what I heard that is a great perk, building is only two floors in Borden so you either sleep on the first or second, which if you do the math is a lot less stairs then being on the 14th in CFLRS...



Amen


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## canadian_moose (14 Sep 2008)

The differences are in Borden you do PT with the PSP not your instructors, the drill hall and classrooms are outside so you march if you have to go there and there are more air forces, navy and reserve instructors then there are in St Jean. And the room setup is a bit different cause in Borden you share with 4 people and in St Jean you have a cubicle.


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## HItorMiss (14 Sep 2008)

The biggest Difference I saw while I made some trips to Borden and to CFLRS was this


In Borden I saw recruits in Canex and in Timmies...a lot, privileges seemed more free as it were, Recruits had less regard for proper military etiquette (Chewing gum in uniform, not paying respects, not wearing their beret outdoors of the canex, etc etc) and a serious lack of the recruit fear I saw in St Jean. I am not sure why it is that way but those were my visual impressions....


On a side note .... the Royal in me damn near had a brain aneurysm and often did some impromptu sorting out in a very polite and tactful manner, knowing that I was not an instructor and thus had to tread lightly  


EDIT: 9er again and her grasp of the english language (Spelling, Grammar etc etc)


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## NCRCrow (14 Sep 2008)

you should have grabbed there Station Cards which means no Green & Gold :'( or CANEX privileges. You should have also revoked there "pop" privileges.

True story, I saw one of my old instructors from Cornwallis yesterday at the SuperStore here in Sackvegas and I was petrified. I felt that I should come to attention and request to start pumping off push ups.

My wife asks me whats wrong...."Oh Nothing"

Different mentality today or maybe I am just ready to retire.


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## medicineman (14 Sep 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> True story, I saw one of my old instructors from Cornwallis yesterday at the SuperStore here in Sackvegas and I was petrified. I felt that I should come to attention and request to start pumping off push ups.



I had the pleasure of getting to look after my platoon PERI from Cornwallis on sick parade once - should have seen the loo on his face when I said "This just isn't your lucky day"  ;D.

MM


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> The biggest Difference I saw while I made some trips to Borden and to CFLRS was this
> 
> 
> In Borden I saw recruits in Canex and in Timmies...a lot, privileges seemed more free as it were, Recruits had less regard for proper military etiquette (Chewing gum in uniform, not paying respects, not wearing their beret outdoors of the canex, etc etc) and a serious lack of the recruit fear I saw in St Jean. I am not sure why it is that way but those were my visual impressions....
> ...



Holy, that is VERY different then the atmosphere at CFLRS.   

Timmies?  Hanging out at the CANEX?  Wtf over!


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## medicineman (15 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Holy, that is VERY different then the atmosphere at CFLRS.
> 
> Timmies?  Hanging out at the CANEX?  Wtf over!



Welcome to the new, gentler, kinder CF.

MM


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## Pea (15 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Holy, that is VERY different then the atmosphere at CFLRS.
> 
> Timmies?  Hanging out at the CANEX?  Wtf over!



He didn't believe me at first when I told him about all the times I saw the recruits out and about in the evenings. He came down to visit me one week while I was there on my QL3, and he couldn't believe his eyes. Recruits walking down the street to and from Timmies/Canex was a regular occurance each evening. (Walking, not marching... and on week days!) You'd also see them sitting in Pizza hut chowing down. 

When I was in BMQ in St. Jean, I was never allowed at the canex/subway on a week day regardless of what week I was in. We were only allowed anywhere on weekends we had off. (and that wasn't very many weekends...) I also wouldn't even think of walking anywhere on base, even in civi's on our weekends off we marched everywhere! My instructors put the fear of god into me, at all times! (and I was very thankful for that upon arrival in Meaford for SQ! Wow, what a place!!) I feel for those Borden recruits who later went on to battle school!


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Sep 2008)

I am surprised to hear that.  I almost took a position in Borden as staff for the BMQ/Wpn Cadre side at NRTD and I am not sure I would have been able to deal with that...err...environment? for people on BMQ.

I totally agree with your last statement.  They get used to the arm-chair army and then have attitudes when they hit real training.

Again, I am fairly shocked to read that about Borden...and I guess I should keep my opinion on 'why' to myself.  CFLRS was run very well when I was (briefly) there in the B Div bullpen, that stuff just never would happen up there (as you can attest to  8))

This brings to mind my life-long beef  in our trng system.  "1 Standard" (or lack thereof).


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## HItorMiss (15 Sep 2008)

If I have learned anything in the Military...

Standards isn't!


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Sep 2008)

I'm betting you had a sore neck from all the double-takes you had when you were in Borden the first time...


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## littlelizzard (15 Sep 2008)

:-\  Well just to reply to the whole Borden vs CFLRS thing, I mean I think it all depends on the individual, some of the guys that are sent to CFLRS need to be placed there due to attitude to begin with, some of them learn some don't and quite frankly I know guys that have been to both and they don't seem to mind either one.  Petawawa is an awesome place to be later, but there again all depends I think, we all have different personalities.


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## HItorMiss (15 Sep 2008)

Huh?

Recruits are not sent to CFLRS for attitude unless they have failed a previous cycle for attitude and then go to St Jean which is the only place with a Recruit PAT Pl. The place a recruit does BMQ is totally random and even if on PAT in St Jean when they get another shot at BMQ that course is the next available wether it is in CFLRS, Borden, Gagetown or even Wainwright.

Petawawa is not running BMQ for Regs, I know there have been some done in the summer for Res but when talking CFLRS and Borden we are talking Reg BMQ

And and Eye.... My neck was just fine it spent all my time looking at my very good looking 9er, only when the recruits blocked my vision of her did I notice them at all ;D

EDIT: Added to the post


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## littlelizzard (20 Sep 2008)

Okay first of all had the post been read properly I think all my buds out there that are Generals whom were and some are would agree that LATER Petawawa is an awesome place and second of all my guy is in Saint-Jean and hasn't failed at nothing so not sure where that's coming from  :


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Sep 2008)

littlelizzard said:
			
		

> Okay first of all had the post been read properly I think all my buds out there that are Generals whom were and some are would agree that LATER Petawawa is an awesome place and second of all my guy is in Saint-Jean and hasn't failed at nothing so not sure where that's coming from  :



I hope you aren't planning on driving tonight...


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## HItorMiss (20 Sep 2008)

You need to be a little more clear there dude I have no idea what the heck you are trying to say....  ???


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

Recruits do have tv, snack machines, internet access, subway and many other things at CFLRS...it just doesn't seem like that...I was there for 9 months and can confirm that indeed recruits were not CB'd the whole time they were there...unless of course they f*&%ed up...

HL


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## Pea (21 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> Recruits do have tv, snack machines, internet access, subway and many other things at CFLRS...it just doesn't seem like that...I was there for 9 months and can confirm that indeed recruits were not CB'd the whole time they were there...unless of course they f*&%ed up...
> 
> HL



Yes there is access there, but in my experience it was VERY limited access. Yes there are generally a fair amount of people gathering in the green break area, but they were usually members of PAT platoon who basically had every evening and weekend to themselves. The only time I really had access to said privileges was when I was waiting for fire picket meetings or on weekend leave. I didn't have access to Subway/Canex during the week at any time of my BMQ. (Although our Platoon staff were a pretty strict crew, and I'm sure some others weren't) I guess my biggest shock was getting to Borden and sharing a Mess with the BMQ recruits and seeing them sit in there for over an hour for dinner many a nights (our meal timings were less than 20 mins through my whole course), and then see them walking down the road to and from the Canex/Timmies on a regular basis. I wouldn't have dreamed of doing the same at CFLRS.


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## littlelizzard (21 Sep 2008)

Yes you have that right, I just talked to my guy there, they were on a bus trip today and another to Ottawa tomorrow and they have there cell phones for the weekends and the subway, some brews, and they have all next weekend off. Its awesome at Saint-Jean. After the first 4 weeks are done, its sailin time


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## Pea (21 Sep 2008)

littlelizzard said:
			
		

> Yes you have that right, I just talked to my guy there, they were on a bus trip today and another to Ottawa tomorrow and they have there cell phones for the weekends and the subway, some brews, and they have all next weekend off. Its awesome at Saint-Jean. *After the first 4 weeks are done, its sailin time*



Wait for it....  ;D


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

You see a lot there in 9 months  :


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## HItorMiss (21 Sep 2008)

Ok lizard

You need to reply with something that makes sense...Think it out and use some grammar. Seriously what is it you were saying when you were quoting me? what Generals?

Actualy you know what...Hell start over and explain properly


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

littlelizzard said:
			
		

> After the first 4 weeks are done, its sailin time



I am not sure what week your guy is in but...I highly doubt (read not charmin'' effin likely) 'going into cruise mode' at Week 4 is the smart thing to do.  Nor is it the right attitude.  He'll see that along the way...come back and post again with how his 'cruise control' BMQ went  >


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## littlelizzard (21 Sep 2008)

>  sure seems like I would like to meet a couple of dudes along my path of the fourth week


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

littlelizzard said:
			
		

> >  sure seems like I would like to meet a couple of dudes along my path of the fourth week



I think you are running different KEYMAT than I am..."broken and unreadable, over"

(I have NO idea what your posts tonight mean.  Remember, call a cab :blotto


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## littlelizzard (21 Sep 2008)

Hey Eye is it really that bad later, maybe the guy is hoping I don't know


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

You are constantly learning new things or building on things you've already been taught.  Some people find it challenging, some don't but...if you are one of the ones that find it easier, you're (in my books) expected to help the ones that don't.  You fail and succeed as a platoon, not individuals.  There are times to shine as in individual (PT test, lets say) but those who cruise are blading their course by not helping the ones who are struggling more...you want to go to combat or fix planes that have to fly with someone like that?  I don't.

*edit - I haven't been in the trng system as staff for a year and a half now but...some things don't change much, if at all.  MediPea went thru BMQ rather recently and would know best what the deal is, over everyone posting in the thread IMO.


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## littlelizzard (21 Sep 2008)

Thanks Eye: Word Up


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## Daidalous (21 Sep 2008)

A friend of mine went through Borden for his BMQ Sep-Nov 07.  And I have to say he was lacking some skills.  ie boots he wore on his grad parade hardly has a shine to them,  he could barely iron a shirt ect...   Now I do not know if he was a 1-1,000,000 case that fell through he cracks or if Borden is pumping out recruits like that.   I had no problems helping him bring up his personal standards but no recruit should leave basic like that.   How can you have a prosperous career if you never mastered the basics


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## Cat (21 Sep 2008)

Course here at CFLRS is different for each platoon. I've been here for the past 8 months almost and have seen alot. My original platoon was allowed all electronics after 6pm for the entire course. Some platoons only see their electronics once they have weekends off, some have them in the evenings after 6 after their cap badge test. Most platoons can be on orange deck after 1800 hrs after week 5 or 6, some aren't allowed, mostly that's to go to canex, although some have bistro/subway privledges as well. 

PAT does get almost all of their weekends off, however most major holidays they work as duty platoon, like Easter/Thanksgiving/Canada Day.  PAT also has to have 24 hr firepicket and works 24 hours at the green desk during the week, as well as being tasked everywhere on base all week. It looks like a sweet place to be, but it's really not, most of us work equvilent hours to platoon recruits unless we're absolutely fubar and can't walk etc.

But on track, CFLRS is as tough or easy as your staff make it,most are very reasonable and you get privledges are you prove that you deserve them.


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

I agree with you Cat...CFLRS is what you make of it...individually and as a platoon...
When I was there our platoon had every weekend off...but we had worked hard and well together...as a result we received the Commandant's Pennant  8)

However our sister platoon was constantly CB'd and had slim to no privileges...they worked as individuals and never really gelled...they had a rough go...without a doubt!!

HL


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

Cat said:
			
		

> But on track, CFLRS is as tough or easy as your staff *you make it on yourself, for which the staff are there to make the required corrections to the recruits individually, or the platoon as a whole* make it,most are very reasonable and you get privledges are you prove that you deserve them.



Its like that on every course.  The course is run to a required standard.  If the candidates f**k up, they bring their own world down around them.


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## Cat (21 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Its like that on every course.  The course is run to a required standard.  If the candidates f**k up, they bring their own world down around them.



I will disagree slightly, some staff just do not issue the privlidges. It's not how well the platoon performs, they just don't issue them. Behavior of the platoon is usually grounds for the more common provledges such as weekends off though.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

Cat said:
			
		

> I will disagree slightly, some staff just do not issue the privlidges. It's not how well the platoon performs, they just don't issue them. Behavior of the platoon is usually grounds for the more common provledges such as weekends off though.



Ok you disagree but my 14 years working as an Instructor in various schools and units are what made me say what I said.

Of course, each Pl WO runs his/her platoon differently.  Each Div is run slightly differently...all completely normal things in the military.  Not each Troop I worked in was the same, or Sqn or Coy, each Sgt-Major was different...again, all normal stuff.  Wait for it, you've yet to see anything outside the St-Jean Garrison I am assuming.


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## Cat (21 Sep 2008)

That's why I was only refering to St-Jean. I'vebeen here for a while and have seen far too many platoons go through here. 

I fully conceed that things may work differently outside of the garrison, I'm just going on my experiance here.


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2008)

Cat said:
			
		

> I'vebeen here for a while



8 months right ?

Is that whole months ?


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

Roger that.  However, what I am saying is...let's use an Armour Sqn.  Each Patrol Commander does things alittle different inside the Troop, each Troop Ldr and WO does things differently from the other ones inside a Sqn, each Sqn OC and Sgt-Major do things differently from the other OCs and SSMs in the regiment...its normal.  Higher lays out the boundaries...you just make sure you stay inside them...

Running courses isn't exactly like making cookies, where you just use the same cutter and everything looks the same  .

Each Commander, at their own level, is afforded the ability to run things at the Section/Platoon/Company etc level, within certain parameters, as he/she sees fit.  K?


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## HItorMiss (21 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> 8 months right ?
> 
> Is that whole months ?



I know long time eh....  :

You know what I love being told how the training system works when I have first hand knowledge of it.... 

I like that about as much as I like someones girlfirend coming and telling me how works too....Yeah surething you know how it works  :


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## Cat (21 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> 8 months right ?
> 
> Is that whole months ?



8 whole months on Oct 2nd


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

Cat said:
			
		

> 8 whole months on Oct 2nd



My advice to you is..the people you are debating this with...well their socks have more time-in the CF than you do.  You might want to conside that...your call.


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## Cat (21 Sep 2008)

I've yet to say much argumentitivly. I'm stating what I see on a daily basis as to what happens specifically at CFLRS on the training platoons. Which was the original questions. 

I'm not arguing and to prove that point I'm out of the conversation, feel free to debate all you guys want.


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## Niteshade (21 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> My advice to you is..the people you are debating this with...well their socks have more time-in the CF than you do.  You might want to conside that...your call.



Your point has merit...

But one could argue, that his 8 months is quite recent experience (thus more valid and accurate) than say, someone who was there for two years time, but 6 years ago...

Sure ,the socks may be old, but things DO change.

...
I personally would be keeping quiet if I was at St. Jean for 8 months....

Nites


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## HItorMiss (21 Sep 2008)

Oh yes things change....But having seen St Jean a year ago (slightly less actually and not as a candidate) I can say that it really hasn't changed significantly since I was there in 99. The course material may have changed but the way Recruits are treated and the standard of dress and deportment have not changed one little bit. Heck I can remember phones calls from my stressed out 9er saying the staff said this or they wanted something done like this etc etc etc, I remember also thinking "hmm yup week X right about the time they told me the near exact samething".


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

Niteshade said:
			
		

> Your point has merit...
> 
> But one could argue, that his 8 months is quite recent experience (thus more valid and accurate) than say, someone who was there for two years time, but 6 years ago...
> 
> ...


Indeed Nites...things do change...many of the old guard here went through at a time when things in the training system were much much different...when many a persons personal rights were violated...pretty sure we don't wear what my grandfathers did in WWII...and I thank God for that


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> pretty sure we don't wear what my grandfathers did in WWII...and I thank God for that



No but we still put socks on the exact same way.


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

Bet you have more than a pair or two and don't have to peel them off with your knife CA...

HL


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## HItorMiss (21 Sep 2008)

Polish our boots...Same
Make bed....Same
Station Jobs...Same(ish) No more floor waxing in CFLRS
Jackings...Lordy Lordy SAME! LMAO


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> Bet you have more than a pair or two and don't have to peel them off with your knife CA...



I've had to cut several pairs off my feet............


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2008)

I find that most peolple who spew this " you dont know, things have changed so much" are the ones who have not seen how it was before and thus have no frame of reference.

I've been at this 16 years and the more things change, the more they stay the same.


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Polish our boots...Same
> Make bed....Same
> Station Jobs...Same(ish) No more floor waxing in CFLRS
> Jackings...Lordy Lordy SAME! LMAO
> ...


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## Celticgirl (21 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Jackings...Lordy Lordy SAME! LMAO



I was just watching Truth, Duty, Valour on OLN this evening and they were showing a group at St. Jean going through BMQ. It was interesting to see how much 'jacking up' there was. I'm going to need to grow a much thicker skin before January. At the end of the show, they said to 'tune in next time' to find out which of the 5 recruits they were profiling would be marching in the final parade (ONE out of the five). I am interested to know what happened to the others.  ???

Now, if they would just do one of these shows - TDV, Basic Up - about the officer training, that would be great.  ;D


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## Cat (21 Sep 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I was just watching Truth, Duty, Valour on OLN this evening and they were showing a group at St. Jean going through BMQ. It was interesting to see how much 'jacking up' there was. I'm going to need to grow a much thicker skin before January. At the end of the show, they said to 'tune in next time' to find out which of the 5 recruits they were profiling would be marching in the final parade (ONE out of the five). I am interested to know what happened to the others.  ???
> 
> Now, if they would just do one of these shows - TDV, Basic Up - about the officer training, that would be great.  ;D



CG - 2-3 probably VR'd and the remainder are injured sitting on PAT. Or they might have gotten lucky and been sent to postingbefore their grad parade.


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2008)

> The jackings aren't allowed to have swears in them any more though...



I beg to differ HL


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

Hey CG...

Be happy to share what I know about the Officer Training at CFLRS...send me a PM if you like  

HL


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## Celticgirl (21 Sep 2008)

Cat said:
			
		

> CG - 2-3 probably VR'd and the remainder are injured sitting on PAT. Or they might have gotten lucky and been sent to postingbefore their grad parade.



I'm guessing VR, too. I only saw a few minutes of it, but it looked like the 5 were all women, or maybe 4 of the 5. There was one guy there who seemed pretty intense...he was all "They'd have to carry me out on my back"... ;D I kind of hope one of the women made it, though. 



			
				Hot Lips said:
			
		

> Hey CG...
> 
> Be happy to share what I know about the Officer Training at CFLRS...send me a PM if you like
> 
> HL



Thanks. I was just saying (kind of half-joking) that there should be a TV show on officer training, too...why do NCMs get all the air time?


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## Hot Lips (21 Sep 2008)

CA...they weren't allowed when I went through that long ago at CFLRS...prolly different all over though...

HL


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## HItorMiss (21 Sep 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Thanks. I was just saying (kind of half-joking) that there should be a TV show on officer training, too...why do NCMs get all the air time?



Thats cause we do all the real work  ;D


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## Pea (21 Sep 2008)

I was at CFLRS last year this time, and they sure were allowed to swear in their jackings. I can still recall TONS of obscene jackings that at the time were a little "scary" but now are quite entertaining to remember. Although nothing compared to what I heard on my SQ in Meaford... ;D I'm so glad I'm not infantry!


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I find that most peolple who spew this " you dont know, things have changed so much" are the ones who have not seen how it was before and thus have no frame of reference.
> 
> I've been at this 16 years and the more things change, the more they stay the same.



Agreed with you on this one.  IMO, they are the ones that don't know how 'it works' in the frst place, yet they have all the ways to fix what isn't broken.  : They don't understand the real purpose behind things like drill;  inspections;  attention to detail;  adverse and harsh training;  inducing stress on trainees; etc etc.  They (recruits, young soldiers, Subordinate and Junior Officers) haven't mastered the basics, yet they want to change them.  While this isn't true about all of them, it is about some.  I am not saying ALL recruits, young soldiers, Subordinate and Junior Officers are like this.  I am definitely  saying it about some.

And that is also something that hasn't changed.  I don't suspect it ever will, either.  Thats why God made NCOs - The Backbone of the Army.

Backbone of the Army book link

(The NCO Creed below is taken from a US Army Manual I believe...I've never seen the CF Equivalent, not even on my SLC.  I was first introduced to it in 1994 as a young, green MCpl.  I've had it ever since.  Its the expanded version, IMO, of "the 3 Ms - the Mission, the Men, then Myself".)


_*The NCO Creed   * _  
No one is more professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the Military Service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety. 

Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind -- accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment. 

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Noncommissioned Officers, leaders!

*editted to add the book link


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## aesop081 (22 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> _*The NCO Creed   * _
> No one is more professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the Military Service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.
> 
> Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind -- accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.
> ...



Learn it, live it.


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## littlelizzard (22 Sep 2008)

I love your statement you made and wish I could have you running the show.  I am confused when signing up as I am a single mommy and not being able to see my son is really upsetting me, he is 11 and I am all he has. I have been down twice to hand in my papers and each time I turn back. Wish I could have him with me :-\


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## aesop081 (22 Sep 2008)

littlelizzard said:
			
		

> I am confused when signing up as I am a single mommy and not being able to see my son is really upsetting me,



You are not the first single parent to be in the CF and if you get in you wont be the only one. You want to join so just get on with it.


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## littlelizzard (22 Sep 2008)

Would you say Saint-Jean or Borden are a little less tense with the rules, ie: calling home :-\


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## medaid (22 Sep 2008)

I honestly don't think you're ready for this commitment. But that's just me.


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## MAJONES (22 Sep 2008)

Littlelizzard, if you are not 100% certain of your choice, do yourself a favour.  Dont' enroll.  I'm not trying to sound harsh, but the military is not like other jobs.  It takes up alot of your life and you have to 100% want to be there (and that goes for life well after basic training).  If you're not giving 100% you're just going to drag the people around you down, and they won't tolerate that for very long at all.
As for the jackings, they really are just some guy/gal giving you good advice in an aggressive manner.  I always used to get tagged for open pockets.  I'm glad that my staff drilled that into my head because now when I'm in the a/c and we go inverted nothing falls out.  That example may seem trivial, but the point I'm trying to make is that some of the stuff that may seem like chikensh*t in BMOQ/BMQ is in fact laying down good habits that will serve you well later in your career.  I guess the long and the short of it is don't let a jacking upset you, but DON'T ignore it either.


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## littlelizzard (22 Sep 2008)

Well to be quite honest I could care less what people like to write and say, like being yelled at first thing in the morning, I could care less has to be taken with a grain of salt, I have the toughness it takes, I am not a complete softie, I just really care about my son.  Whatever I decide I can tell you one thing, I will do my best no matter what!!! Thanks by the way, its good to be a bit of a hard ass lol lol


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## medaid (22 Sep 2008)

littlelizzard said:
			
		

> Well to be quite honest I could care less what people like to write and say, like being yelled at first thing in the morning, I could care less has to be taken with a grain of salt, I have the toughness it takes, I am not a complete softie, I just really care about my son.  Whatever I decide I can tell you one thing, I will do my best no matter what!!! Thanks by the way, its good to be a bit of a hard *** lol lol



That's great and all.. but I still don't think you're ready for the commitment involved in this. If you want honest advice? Join PRes first and see if you can stomach that. If you can and you think RegF is where you wanna be? Then CT to RegF. Who knows, you may enjoy PRes more and stay in. But right now seeing the way you're posting, I really don't think you're ready.


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