# Peace Protests



## 2Lt_Martin (18 Feb 2003)

I‘m sure most of you have seen the peace protests going on across North America and around the world, (much to Iraq‘s delight). Just thought I would put the question out to the board, Has anyone encountered any sort of backlash about being in uniform / being part of the military  *(I say military vice CF because as soon as some civy sees a uniform they seem to get tunnel vision. And if there is a conflict happening somewhere in the world, and you are wearing a uniform you must be involved in some way.)* 

How have you handled this type of incident? Any advice for those of us who have never had to deal with this. I‘ve received the occassional snide comment and have just let it go in one ear and out the other. It‘s almost as though some of these people feel sorry/compassion _(not sure of the right word here)_  for Hussein‘s regime. Not sure how to react to these people, any input/advice is appreciated


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## Michael Dorosh (18 Feb 2003)

Ignoring them is the only thing to do; if they are stupid enough to equate a soldier with war, they cannot be reasoned with.

We had the Sherman tank and Universal Carrier in front of our armoury vandalized last week; some idiots spray painted peace signs and slogans on them.

I wrote in to the local paper but haven‘t seen it published yet.  Basically, I wanted to publicly ask the people who did this what they thought they were accomplishing:‘

a) soldiers don‘t set foreign policy, they follow legal orders
b) soldiers are the ones that do the dying in a war, and are generally the last ones who want to go
c) you don‘t just run out and buy touch up paint for 60 year old equipment painted in vintage markings; the monuments are effectively ruined
d) President Bush isn‘t likely to read the anti-war slogans on a tank in Calgary, but you can bet the widows of war veterans, their families, and others who still honour the memory of our war dead will indeed see how these memorials have been desecrated

Basically, I have to ask - why preach to the choir?  What idiot thinks that ruining a war memorial and painting graffiti on the front of an armoury will change anything?  We pray for peace as much as any scumbag civvie - moreso, maybe.


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## 2Lt_Martin (18 Feb 2003)

Wow and I thought snide comments were bad; that‘s pretty brutal defacing a monument.    

Especially in the west after having the PPCLI recently return from Afghanistan you would think that would be fresh in people‘s minds. How quickly some forget about the sacrifices made. 

I guess your correct that I am preaching to the choir here, but we do have some really great singers.


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## Jarnhamar (18 Feb 2003)

I‘d have to agree with my buddy michael here.
Smart people speak because they have something to say, stupid speak because they think they need to say something.
Most of the people who will make ignorant and rude comments are the latter catagory. Worst thing is you can sit them down and explain basically what michael just and it will go right over their head.

Some military people don‘t help our image though like reserve guys walking around town swearing every second word talking about killing people or my favorite, RMC students at the bars.

Thats such a shame what they did to that tank.
I guess its kinda like south korea. They hate the military and want them gone until they‘re threatened and then they fall over themselves thanking you.


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## 2Lt_Martin (18 Feb 2003)

RMC students at bars = trouble I‘m guessing, hmmm I bet there are some good stories out there. <-- Should start a new post on this.


Your right on target with your comments about hating us one minute and praising or begging for help the next. Whichever is convienient at the moment.


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## humint (18 Feb 2003)

Yes, ignore them! If they can‘t differentiate between soldiers and policy makers, than they can‘t differentiate between their head, their @ss, and a hole in the ground! 

Last month, a group called Homes Not Bombs tried to send out a letter to all CF members, the point of which was to encourage us to quit the Forces. Not sure if anyone here received it at their forces email, but it was posted on the net and via email chain letters, etc. Anyway, the letter went on to say that the war (??) was illegal, etc., and that the group would "support" anyone who left the Forces in protest. 

The letter didn‘t specify whether the support it mentioned was the financial or the moral kind. 

The whole thing was just plain silly. Did they actually expect people to leave their jobs and career? How outta touch are these people? They should be talking to the politicians, not us!


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## SNoseworthy (18 Feb 2003)

> Yes, ignore them! If they can‘t differentiate between soldiers and policy makers, than they can‘t differentiate between their head, their @ss, and a hole in the ground!


Nicely put humint!


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## combat_medic (18 Feb 2003)

For the past month or so, I‘ve been doing the new PLQ course on weekends in downtown Vancouver, and several times when driving to or from the armouries, I‘ve had people shove posters at me saying "Stop the War on Iraq" or people muttering "baby killer" at me. For the love of God, I‘m a 23 year old medic in the reserves, how many babies could I have conceivably killed, even if I DID have the inclination? I usually just shrug it off, but sometimes I just wish I didn‘t have to behave in uniform.

For anyone interested, there‘s a great speech  here  from a Vietnam vet talking about war protesters post Sept-11th. It‘s very American, but echoes a lot of the sentiments posted here.


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## ninty9 (18 Feb 2003)

> We had the Sherman tank and Universal Carrier in front of our armoury vandalized last week; some idiots spray painted peace signs and slogans on them.


Really?  I haven‘t been down to the armoury in a few weeks.

Thats so disrespectful.  They just put the Sherman out there last summer.  Hopefully they‘ll get fixed up soon.


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## PTE Gruending (18 Feb 2003)

These sort of things (defacing War Memorials) sicken me. Good points have been made by all of you across the board, and I just wish the public shared your sentiment. 

Is a disrespect for the Military a specific Canadian problem? When I look at the American media that we seem to be bombarded with everyday (books, tv, film, music, etc), it seems like although there is strong anti-war sentiment in the U.S., at least there is a respect for the Armed Forces.

Now I‘m not not even opening up for the debate on whether War on Iraq is an appropriate course of action or not. But it seems that the Military is of importance in the States. Since joining the CF last summer I have had numerous discussions with friends, families, peers, etc about the Military. It seems that their is a general public concensus that it is not an important issue. Many do not see why there is a need for a strong Canadian Military, or support sustained levels (or increases) in funding. 

It is all reflected in Canadian politics as well, with the NDP gambling by enstating a new leader whom the party hopes will capture the support of the Urban populance (Layton). His current platform includes a freeze on military spending. Are we going backwards here? Does this reflect the viewpoints of the majority of Canadians? I sure the ****  hope not. It seems as a whole, the Canadian public has no sense of national pride, which reflects upon the CF. It‘s this general lack of dignity, complacency, and ignorance that almost makes me want to move South at times.

When will we learn that the Military is a necessary arm of the government, and a means of pride and strength for a nation? Instead it seems that the ignorant masses lump in CF members with those responsible for unpopular international military conflict, which may or may not have anything to do with Canada. 

Let us not forget the sacrifices of the war vets/deceased which grant us freedom. As well as the militaries of the "modern" world (U.N., NATO) which keep the world from descending into chaos and anarchy, where fear and evil are the rule.


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## BestOfTheBest (18 Feb 2003)

I just got back form an excerise with army cadets this week and while i was going home on the bus a group of people were like looking at me in this  werid look, as if they just wanted to kill me or something because i was wearing full combats with a rucksuck on my back. 
and this was all beside the dnd building in ottawa.
My uniform CLEARlY SAYS CADET ON IT but i was getting alot of rude comments by people just walking by me


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## Jarnhamar (18 Feb 2003)

Maybe they were making those comments because they knew you were a cadet    

(Kidding of course)


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## Korus (18 Feb 2003)

I started BMQ in Edmonton at the same time that 3 PPCLI returned from Afghanistan. For the entire month, people where honking at us and waving as we bused back and forth from the garrison (where we had our shacks) and the armouries (where we did most of our training). It was really interesting to see a positive attitude to the CF, something I never expected.

Now to see things about turn, and have people vandalize the Calgary armouries, call soldiers baby killers, etc... Sounds like some people saw a movie about vietnam war protests in the 60‘s, and want to give it a try.


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## Jarnhamar (18 Feb 2003)

You guys are more disciplined then me. I found myself a nice assault charge when some friends and I went to a seperation demonostration and someone was burning a canadian flag.

I guess it takes a big man to walk away from that stuff, im not a very big man.

Kingston is a great city for having indepth  conversations about the military with students who know ‘all‘ about the military and how it works.


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## Marti (19 Feb 2003)

i think that most people are smart enough to differentiate between the military and war. i was training with my reserve unit on the weekend at the above mentioned vandalized armouries, and there was a peace protest being organized next door. sentries were posted to ward off further vandalizing, but when i asked them about it later, they said most people smiled, waved and said hello. there were a few oddballs who asked them ‘who owns you?‘, but the biggest problems came from photographers and cameramen who tried rushing inside the armouries to use the towers to get an arial shot of the crowd. i think most people are on side with us, it‘s just the people that aren‘t are so vocal about it we notice them more than the others. then again, when it comes to judging people i‘m an optimist so maybe i‘m way off.


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## Jungle (22 Feb 2003)

Something that struck me about last weeks demonstrations was the group of Iraqi children in Baghdad. They had a large group of kids from the scout movement demonstrating, and one of them was shown carrying a sign that read: "Death to Bush"... quite the "pro-peace" statement, especially coming from a child.
Strangely, there were no comments from the anti-war movement.


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## PTE Gruending (23 Feb 2003)

Not to mention the burning Bush effigy‘s....


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## Pugil (23 Feb 2003)

We had seen millions of people protesting against war all around the World but we havent seen any pro-war protest so far, not enough evidence to justify it?


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## muskrat89 (23 Feb 2003)

Actually, Pugil there has been pro-war protests, here in the US. They don‘t get much coverage, in the news....


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## Korus (23 Feb 2003)

Here‘s a website worth checking out. Most notably, click on the "Click for more photos" link to see more anti-protester posters.

From Across the Fruited Planet: Dittoheads Infiltrate Frisco Freak Protest


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## futuresoldier (26 Feb 2006)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1750029718148288620&q=canadian+army

Wow, it pisses me off how so many of them are so ignorant....
They don't even look at the full story!


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## combat_medic (26 Feb 2006)

I love how there's only 5 of them protesting, and only one or two people watching them. That's pretty typical attendance for an Art Gallery protest. When I worked by there, there were protests so frequently (nearly daily) on every possible subject that no one even cared or paid attention that what they were about. Usually the yuppies on Robson would just laugh on them and continue on to Starbucks.


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## futuresoldier (26 Feb 2006)

Well, here is my peace rap,

"Yo wassup im da gangsta and im against war
Why they make the army? and wat it for?
Im just a rappa singin' and dissin' the killin'
When I dont got da facts but im out on a mission 
(did I mention the gun in my pant pocket?)"  

Hey protestors: DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!


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## GDawg (27 Feb 2006)

This thread isn't the first time I've read about MAWO. I finally checked their website and I wasn't pleased with what I saw. Reading what they had to say about the world left me irritated and I decided to write them an e-mail:



> I was rather disturbed when I came across your website.
> 
> As Canadians you and I enjoy peace and prosperity as well as the freedom to have our own opinions and express them, it is a shame that the publishers of this website have chosen to take advantage of this situation to publicly broadcast such erroneous and narrow minded views about Canada's efforts in Afghanistan.
> 
> ...


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## futuresoldier (27 Feb 2006)

Good letter, very well written.

Can't wait to see what they say!


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## ArmyRick (27 Feb 2006)

Well said in the letter

"The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince people he didn't exist.."


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## jmackenzie_15 (27 Feb 2006)

It doesnt bother me that people want to express their opinions and demonstrate them in public.
What does bother me, is when people do so in an incredibly ignorant and uninformed fashion, without all or any of the facts.

I don't care if someone has a constrasting opinion from mine, but for the love of god please at least know what youre talking about.

Ive yet, in my entire life, to encounter any anti-military demonstrator, protestor or any mutation of either, that had a solid and logical argument to support their cause/opinion.

Can America start a "War on Ignorance" please?


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## a_majoor (28 Feb 2006)

This is an age old problem, I can imagine Roman Legionaries muttering about ignorant civvies in Gaul or Iberia complaining about what was happening in far off Germania....

Kipling, of course, said it best, and you can read it here: http://www.everypoet.com/archive/poetry/Rudyard_Kipling/kipling_tommy.htm


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## bhobson (28 Feb 2006)

GDawg, well written letter, you should submit it to the Calgary Herald or Sun editorial pages.

A-majoor, I enjoyed the kipling poem.

Thanks,

bhobson


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## ArmyRick (3 Mar 2006)

I have to say, looking at this thread again after the last two days events really makes me want to smack these ignorant and sheltered little spoiled puppies into next week.  Our soldiers once again are putting life and limb on the line (some paying for it, RIP Paul Davis) and all we have back here in the "So-politically-correct-canada" is a bunch of unappreciative little punks who protest anything not lunatic left.  Sad.
Rant ends now, OUT!!!


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## Koenigsegg (4 Mar 2006)

I am getting mixed messages from that website (MAWO).  Do they just want us out of all those places, or is it that since we are in there, the are rooting for Al Qaeda and the Taliban?  Some things they say or show point towards the latter of the two.
I, like many, if not all of the people on this site do not mind, even encourage people to express their opinions and views, as long as they have merit.  People like these make me quite mad, to put it the nicest possible way.  These people are like the ignorant protestors of the Vietnam War.  If they gain too much strength and spread their stupid they could quite possibly allow the enemy to win a war that without these gonads' interference would have been won by our forces.  These people do realize that what is goin on over there is a war, right?  It may not resemble Vietnam, Korea, WWII, or the Gulf War, but it is none the less, a war.  By looking at Canadian Casualties since 2002 I feel that we are doing a good job.  There have been 10 deaths, four (I think) of which being to enemy weapons.  That is far better than if it were like any of the previously mentioned wars, where there would 10s to 100s of names being mentioned on this site every month, with the possible exception of the Gulf War.  Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan are doing a hard enough job with out having to think about idiots in the country they represent stabbing them in the back.  You may not want to support the cause, but at the very least, support the troops.  A lot of the soldiers would probably want to be home as well, so support them so they complete their duty and get home safely.  I am not trying to degrade Canadian efforts by saying "only ten deaths", I am trying to point out that by looking at the sacrifices made by the soldiers, we get a small idea of how well we are doing in the country with our training and equipment.  It is people like MAWO who look down on the over seas commitment, and want to pull out that could make those sacrifices in vain.  I would not want the Canadian soldiers who died in Afghanistan, or were wounded to go with knowing that their sacrifices went with out their country's duty being fulfilled.
All protestors should see first hand what they are protesting, this could their minds in fast hurry.
RIP:
Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer 
Pte. Richard A. Green
Pte. Nathan Smith
Sgt. Marc Leger
Sgt. Robert Alan Short 
Cpl. Robbie Christopher Beerenfenger
Cpl. Jamie Brendan Murphy
Pte. Braun Scott Woodfield
Glyn Berry 
Cpl. Paul James Davis 
 

[Moderator edit - the abbreviation for Private in Canada is "Pte", not "Pvt" which is American]


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## GDawg (4 Mar 2006)

Yep, they're still at it. Protesting in front of a closed CFRC...that will teach us baby killers!
They've also decided to protest after the death of every Canadian soldier, as if that person who just died serving their nation has ANYTHING to do with sending  Canadian soldiers overseas. 
If its any consolation, they were only able to get 25 people on 4 hours notice, most civilians NOT involved in a radical "chicken little" type movement could easily match or exceed that number. 


P.S. They have not responded to my e-mail yet, too busy walking in circles outside of a closed Government office I think.


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## tomahawk6 (4 Mar 2006)

The protestors are a mix of communists, anarchists and socialists. Wacko's of the world unite!


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## a_majoor (6 Mar 2006)

These "protesters" are generally parroting the line promted by the MSM. Hollywood is one of the biggest conduits of this sort of thinking (how is the United Staes beig portrayed in most movies these days?), so here is a little counterpoint of what sort of movies Hollywood would be making and presenting Acadamy awards to if they REALLY wanted to make contentious and relevant statements:

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/comment/goldblatt200603060826.asp



> *Hollywood Heroism*
> A to-do list for George Clooney and his brave crowd.
> 
> By Mark Goldblatt
> ...


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## jimmy742 (6 Mar 2006)

GDawg said:
			
		

> Yep, they're still at it. Protesting in front of a closed CFRC...that will teach us baby killers!
> They've also decided to protest after the death of every Canadian soldier, as if that person who just died serving their nation has ANYTHING to do with sending  Canadian soldiers overseas.
> If its any consolation, they were only able to get 25 people on 4 hours notice, most civilians NOT involved in a radical "chicken little" type movement could easily match or exceed that number.
> 
> ...



I doubt you will get a reasonable answer. I have met some of the people that are associated with MAWO and you can believe me when I say an intelligent debate using facts is the last thing they want. It's mainly loud rhetoric and the message is anti-establishment, first and foremost, regardless of the issue.

Some of the more strident members of MAWO around this area are middle class, wear designer clothes, drive a Mercedes bought by daddy, are naive to a surprising degree, and are not especially well educated. One of its leaders in BC has never held a job in his life. Some of the MAWO people I've spoken with believe the Western press is entirely controlled by Israeli or American interests. Like many other organizations who hold extreme views, misinformation is the game under the guise of telling the truth, and they feel anything they say or any action they take is entirely justified. 

I wouldn't be too upset. They are exercising their democratic rights after all...


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