# My story (which didn't end so well)



## ChristopherRobin (19 Jan 2005)

Here's my story:

December 2003: 
I had just received my refusal letter for the RCMP because I didn't score high enough on the aptitude test (no big deal, I can just wait until the next one and actually prepare myself for it). I went to the recruiting centre to get my paperwork done because I was tired of sitting around doing nothing. A Sgt. from the vandoos was telling me about the different trades and and how I'd be qualified for DEO (I have a degree in Criminology). As soon as he finds this out, he tells me I should apply for Military Police Officer since 'they have many openings'. He told me infantry was closed...which is fine because my knees hurt under extreme pressure (At least I got to do my jump course in cadets when I was young). Plus being an MP officer would open the doors for me for Intel.

December 03 to   February 04:
I do all my aptitude tests and medical exams...pass with flying colours. I go for my fitness test, pass that too no problem. You know how you need to get reference letters for officer training?? Well, for MP officer, I had to get a booklet filled out by my references. A real pain but necessary. 

April 2004:
My interview with an officer- Nice guy, a captain with the vandoos. He tells me he wants me to be 100% honest with him and he'll be 100% honest with me, no problem. After almost 1hr of talking I have to go wait in the waiting room so he can finish his paperwork. He calls me back in and says he's going to recommend me for officer training! I think, "great!". Then he says: "You know how I said I was going to be 100% honest with you?" An alarm goes off in my head. "Well, there are NO positions opened for Military Police." I said: "But in December a Sgt. and a m/cpl told me there were plenty of positions opened." He replied, "Well, not anymore if that's true, I have the updated reports and MP is closed. Infantry was your second choice so you're most likely going to get that, they need officers badly." He then starts to tell me how infantry for officers is easy despite my knees and he's travelled to different countries...etc. He said the next board to establish if the army even needs more MP officers will be in Fall of 04...maybe. He also said that there are maybe one or two MP officer positions open a year and they always take people already in the forces.

From that point to August 04, I tried to figure if I wanted to do infantry and then later on transfer to MP or Intel. For me to complete my infantry training as a DEO officer, it would take me around 3 years, unless I was able to transfer before that. In the end, I decided against the whole thing and continue living life in civvie land and try to get into the Vancouver Police (It's current January 05, I'm moving there in March 05).


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## chaos75 (19 Jan 2005)

Im sure a similar story to many others.  If you dont mind still having the military option open to you while your trying to get on a police force, leave your completed application with the recruiting center, but wait for the offer for MP.  I may never come, but it might.  There are countless stories of people who were talked into joining up being told, "you can just remuster in 3 years", or "just get in now as x trade, then put in for a reassignment on basic".  Most times if you just be patient, even though it may seem hopeless, if you wait you should be able to get what you want.  Good luck either way.


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## ChristopherRobin (20 Jan 2005)

We'll see....

Funny thing, a friend I work with has been trying to get into some sort of officer aerospace/engineering trade in the airforce. During his entire process, the recruiters told him there were positions available (for his three choices) despite what people on this website were saying. I told him all about what happened to me. During HIS interview, after they said they would recommend him, he asked the officer: "So there are positions right?" The officer replied, "Yes, there are, we wouldn't be offering a $40,000 bonus if there weren't any positions." My friend countered, "Well a friend of mine tried to get into the MP officer training and they told him there were positions while in the end, there were never any!" The officer responded: "It's the Military Police, they take maybe one or two people a year!" 

Just recently, this friend of mine has been waiting for a response for one of his three choices. He gets no response and the cut-off date passes. Just today, he calls the recruiting centre up and asks what happened. They told him there were only a couple positions open for all of his choices in Canada.


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## Dissident (1 Feb 2005)

It is always best to get in touch with the unit you want to join. They will tell you the real story. CFRC has objective to attain and may adjust what they tell you in accordance to what they need...

If you would've talked to, lets say 1 MP Pl in edmonton, you would've known that no possitions for MP's were available.


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## Torlyn (1 Feb 2005)

ChristopherRobin said:
			
		

> Just recently, this friend of mine has been waiting for a response for one of his three choices. He gets no response and the cut-off date passes. Just today, he calls the recruiting centre up and asks what happened. They told him there were only a couple positions open for all of his choices in Canada.



They (just like the RCMP) get more DEO applicants than they have positions.  As such, they can only hire a certain number, and they attempt to do this based on things like aptitude tests, suitability screening, interviews, etc.  I would imagine that perseverance and preparedness also have something to do with it.  You applied to the RCMP, didn't make it past the aptitude test (as you weren't prepared) then completely gave up that process.  You apply for a DEO as a MP, don't get the position immediately, and return to civvy life.  Now you're applying to Vancouver PD...  Are you noticing a trend here?  I wonder if the recruiters didn't pick up on that as well.

I'm applying MARS and ANAV DEO, and instead of complaining how few slots are available, I've been meeting with my recruiting officer on a regular basis trying to make myself more competitive for the next selection board.  It's a hell of a long process, but I think it serves a purpose, in that for those people who will only take one crack at it then give up, why should the military (or the police forces) take you?

I really do wish you the best of luck in whichever endeavour you (finally) choose, but perhaps you would be better served sitting down, taking stock, setting a goal, and actually following through with it.  It might be worth it...

T


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Feb 2005)

Torlyn,

I like the way you've come along. Good on you and good luck. Great advice too.

Maybe, maybe ??? time to change your avatar? :blotto: Just kidding.


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## garb811 (2 Feb 2005)

Dissident said:
			
		

> It is always best to get in touch with the unit you want to join. They will tell you the real story. CFRC has objective to attain and may adjust what they tell you in accordance to what they need...
> 
> If you would've talked to, lets say 1 MP Pl in edmonton, you would've known that no possitions for MP's were available.


Regular Force MP Units have no useful information regarding possible openings in the Branch.   While we have a general idea of the state of the trade, and maybe a "ball park" figure of the upcoming training output for the next year, we have no idea exactly how many recruits or OTs are going to be accepted in the next "x" months/years at any given time.   Unlike the reserve units our manning is centrally controlled out of Ottawa and there are just too many intangibles to even risk providing any kind of advice along these lines to someone, particularly given the length of time it takes to go through the recruiting process and MPAC before an offer is even made.   The probable, and most honest answer, would be "talk to a recruiter".

On the other hand, if you have any questions relating to the trade and what it's like to be an Officer or NCM in it, then by all means contact the nearest unit and ask away, or better yet, arrange for a visit in person.   Most MP Dets will also facilitate ride alongs.


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## Infanteer (2 Feb 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Torlyn,
> 
> I like the way you've come along. Good on you and good luck. Great advice too.
> 
> Maybe, maybe ??? time to change your avatar? :blotto: Just kidding.



I'll second that.


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## Torlyn (2 Feb 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I'll second that.



Ask, and ye shall receive.  

T


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## Pieman (2 Feb 2005)

> Maybe, maybe   time to change your avatar?   Just kidding.


 Awww :-*, tell us how you really feel.   ^-^...Just kidding too.




> I'm applying MARS and ANAV DEO, and instead of complaining how few slots are available, I've been meeting with my recruiting officer on a regular basis trying to make myself more competitive for the next selection board.


My recruiter has slotted me for four DEO positions as all three of my main choices are competitive with very few slots. I have been at this so long I can't afford to get merit listed. The unfortunate thing is there is no way of knowing how many people applied to the same position, so you have no idea just how competitive it is going to be. I think I would be happy in any of them. I don't quite see why people pick only one trade thinking it is the only good one out there. There are plenty of roles in the CF that offer lots of challenge.

ChristopherRobin, since you have a degree in Justice studies,   I can certainly see why you would want to move into a law enforcement type of position. But have you considered that just because you have a degree in a certain field, you do not have to continue on the same path and be very successful? Don't trap yourself into thinking that you can't move anywhere else. There are plenty of different career paths you can muscle your way into. That applies to the 'real world' and the Army as well. Someone once said to me "Don't go for the cap badge! Go for what you will enjoy and be good at!"


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## Pieman (3 Feb 2005)

BTW, I agree, Torlyn is a solid poster and a credit to the Abecedarian Alliance. When are you guys going to make him a member of the Army.ca Staff? You know he wants to go that direction. 

Although I have trouble fathoming why...but then again me and him have always disagreed on many points on Army.ca, and in real life.   IMHO it is much more fun to have a person around who is polarized to you, rather than agreeing with you all the time.


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## Dissident (3 Feb 2005)

garb811 said:
			
		

> Regular Force MP Units have no useful information regarding possible openings in the Branch.  While we have a general idea of the state of the trade, and maybe a "ball park" figure of the upcoming training output for the next year, we have no idea exactly how many recruits or OTs are going to be accepted in the next "x" months/years at any given time.  Unlike the reserve units our manning is centrally controlled out of Ottawa and there are just too many intangibles to even risk providing any kind of advice along these lines to someone, particularly given the length of time it takes to go through the recruiting process and MPAC before an offer is even made.  The probable, and most honest answer, would be "talk to a recruiter".



My perspective is that if they know they have a new young officer, chances are they won't have a spot for you. Of course they can't tell you about other units, or the MP's in general, but they can tell you what slot they have to fill.

If I were to join the reg force, I would make sure to ask the unit I wanted to be slatted to, if they have a spot open for me. But then again this is from my reserve point of view, where people come to us to get hired.


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## garb811 (4 Feb 2005)

Dissident said:
			
		

> My perspective is that if they know they have a new young officer, chances are they won't have a spot for you. Of course they can't tell you about other units, or the MP's in general, but they can tell you what slot they have to fill.
> 
> If I were to join the reg force, I would make sure to ask the unit I wanted to be slatted to, if they have a spot open for me. But then again this is from my reserve point of view, where people come to us to get hired.


OK, let's try this again.   I'll still try to keep it brief but with a couple of other examples to further illustrate the futility of doing this.

First, the Career Managers in Ottawa dictate Reg Force postings, units do not, at least at the level you're interested in.   In case you're wondering, you have better odds of winning the 6-49 than you do of having a unit request you be posted there as a QL3/2 Lt because the unit has nothing to gain by doing that.

The primary consideration when posting someone out of the Academy is to get their PEP completed.   To do this, QL3s *must* go to a Guardhouse for a minimum of 1 year, officers are done a bit differently due to the requirements of their PEP.   So, rule out any thoughts of going anywhere but a Guardhouse.   This normally isn't an issue, the hard part usually is getting people out of the patrol car, particularly if it's to someplace like the field.

After that the most important factor is the priority of the unit.   There are a number of issues which determine the priority of the unit but all you really need to know is that if the crunch comes and there aren't enough bodies to go around, some units must remain fully manned (MSGU for example) while those at the lowest priority (RFC) may have significant shortfalls.   Just because the low priority unit is short bodies does not/not mean that they get the priority on personnel coming out of the Academy, if there are still shortages at a higher priority unit, people will go there first.   In a sense though, you are right.   The unit will be able to tell you that they are short "x" number of people *at that point in time* but it is not going to be any kind of indication of the actual chance you have of being posted there.

I highlighted at that point in time for a reason.   The other thing you need to keep in mind, other than priority, is the length of time it takes to finally make it to your first Guardhouse.   Without actually doing the math, if everything were to go smoothly (and it always does right?) someone starting the process is looking at approx 18 months to make it there, a more realistic figure would be 24-30.   In 24 months the Reg Force will go through 2 APS' and somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10-15 QL3 courses will graduate, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less depending on requirements.   This is anywhere between 12-17 chances for the Career Manager to fill the position that you were told about.   In a big base like Edmonton the chances are even greater the position will be filled because of the no cost move factor (the CM can post people around the units at anytime of the year because there is no move involved) and the fact that he can get a QL3 to the Guardhouse for their PEP and then post them to one of the other units on the base to free up room at the guardhouse for free if he needs to.   Of course, the opposite could also happen, you call the unit, they tell you â Å“No, sorry, full upâ ? and suddenly the CM needs to suddenly post people out to bring a higher priority unit up to strength with the plan to backfill the now understrength unit at some point in the future when manning is brought back up by QL3s graduating.

These are just two examples of why a phone call like this is a waste of time for everyone involved. There are also others, such as the trade being overborne (these are the fun ones for the CM, free reign to send QL3's all over the place), unforeseen taskings, new units standing up, old units standing down, promotions, releases etc etc but hopefully I've made my point.

So, knowing this, what is the point in a phone call to ask if there is a slot open â Å“for youâ ?, especially since we don't take reservations?


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## Dissident (16 Feb 2005)

Point taken. I should've put a disclaimer that this was from someone with experience with the reserve only. The expereince I have, of the CFRC, is that they don't really know what is going on at local reserve units. 

but its a bit different between regs and reserve. and thats an understament.

Although I do feel communication is important. I wouldn't see it as a waste of time if someone came to me looking to join my trade, reg or res. I would give him all the info I can, so they don't have any surprises because the CFRC didn't tell them everything. Then they end up disgruntled and bored or worse.

Again, maybe thats just the recruiting NCM reserve MP in me. I have to dispell a lot of misinformation/misconceptions from possible applicants coming in my way.


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