# Sports while in the Canadian Forces...



## mellian

I know there is some sports teams and activities one can do while in the Canadian Force, some of which is in the CF, but I am curious if it has to be a mainstream sport, and whether if one need to get permission from the CO. It would of course be dependent one's occupation, schedule, and where too. 

In the last couple of years been part of a roller derby league, and completed my second season this past summer, while continuing to occasionally play with one of the travel teams against leagues of other cities. It is something I am really into and somewhat obsess about, and even if I have to put it on hold, I will try to get back into it schedule and location permits. Barring any crippling injuries, something I can see myself doing for many years to come as roller derby becomes bigger and bigger as sport.

I know there is some women in the CF and US military that play roller derby, yet also heard that some were disallowed to play due to their CO's perception that the sport as to high of risk for injuries base on lacking or/and outdated information. I am hoping I will not have to have that kind of restriction, as long it does not affect my duties. 

So I am curious if anyone has faced such restrictions barring one from getting into sports or one of them while they are in the CF?


----------



## brandon_

well, i'm not in the cf.

But i don't see that it would be that much of a problem as long as it's on your own time...


----------



## Armymedic

Specifically what sport are you referring to?

You would be surprised what CF members are allowed to do.


----------



## brandon_

SFB said:
			
		

> Specifically what sport are you referring to?
> 
> You would be surprised what CF members are allowed to do.





			
				mellian said:
			
		

> ...In the last couple of years been part of a *roller derby leage*...


----------



## X-mo-1979

I kayak,expedition (and started Greenland) style on my own time.Good chance of drowning,getting bashed against rocks in surf etc.I never asked if I could do something.It's all on my time anyway.

The only two sport I seen actively pushed in my unit (I.E don't go on winter EX,or show up for work during play times) has been Ironman team and hockey.Other sports don't get much attention in my unit.However these two sports are representing the unit,where as myself circumnavigating some large area is not.
Tus I get zero time off work to pursue my sport.


----------



## ballz

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I kayak,expedition (and started Greenland) style on my own time.Good chance of drowning,getting bashed against rocks in surf etc.I never asked if I could do something.It's all on my time anyway.



This applies to all sports outside of the ones you participate in with the CF (aka.... the ones "on your own time"):

You still should get it approved by your CO... If you do get bashed up against the rocks and are unable to work, if it was approved, your healthcare costs and your salary and etc will still be paid out to you, no different than if you were injured on the job. Or if you die, your life CF life insurance will still be in effect (obviously if you have other forms of life insurance that already cover this then that one isn't as big of a factor but the other stuff should be).

If it wasn't approved.... :nod:

There isn't a ton that they won't approve, and if it's not, my understanding is that if it's not approved you can still do it, you're just doing it 100% at your own risk. Right now I'm in the process of getting Muay Thai and Brazilian Ju Jitzu approved, and was pretty well assured that it would be approved. All the official CF sports are no problem to get approved, and some of those are much more dangerous than combative sports (hockey being one of them).


----------



## X-mo-1979

Hmmm.
I seem to remember a few years back they set out a list of sports they would not support.And kayaking wasn't one they didn't.I have never heard of getting the CO approval for doing sports on my own time.I'll have to have a chat with some people at work next time I drop in.


----------



## George Wallace

Just off the top of my head, I would think that some limitations are put onto what sports one can participate in while off duty.  Extreme Sports would likely come to mind and each one would have to be dealt with on an individual basis by any member wishing to take part in one.  A strong and detailed examination of dangers to health and limb would have to be presented.


----------



## X-mo-1979

This is a great topic.It's something that hadn't really crossed my mind before.I am assuming there must be a CF wide list of sports approved.I seem to remember it actually.Leaving a decision to a CO would be a good way for soldier x from unit x being approved and soldier y not.

I am currently not at work so checking is outta my realm.


----------



## ballz

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Just off the top of my head, I would think that some limitations are put onto what sports one can participate in while off duty.  Extreme Sports would likely come to mind and each one would have to be dealt with on an individual basis by any member wishing to take part in one.  A strong and detailed examination of dangers to health and limb would have to be presented.



I'm pretty sure we were told Skydiving wouldn't be approved :nod:


----------



## WestCoaster

I think I remember a CANFORGEN released earlier this year regarding extreme sports. I can't quite remember what it outlined, but I believe it named a few sports that you would not be covered if injured. I don't have DIN access at the moment... maybe someone could look it up? I think it was released in spring 09


----------



## George Wallace

ballz said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure we were told Skydiving wouldn't be approved :nod:



How many of us don't know at least five people who have gone skydiving?


----------



## SupersonicMax

How does someone can make the minimum req. for the Skyhawks without skydiving on the civie streets?


----------



## X-mo-1979

I'll just send them my copy of this is the sea.
The way I look at it your more likely to die driving to the put in site.If someone is permitted to go 120km in a car with other vehicles flying around at the same speed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHr7veG1dtk&feature=related

Be great if someone could post up the CANFORGEN


----------



## ballz

George Wallace said:
			
		

> How many of us don't know at least five people who have gone skydiving?



We had about that number go skydiving on a weekend off during our BMOQ...

I figure if I have a skydiving accident not getting paid for being off work is going to be the least of my worries.


----------



## prima6

People should definitely refer to the Canforgen from this year on extreme sports.  It specifically lists several sports as not being approved.  Obviously this would have implications if you are injured while participating in these sports.  People should also indicate any and all sports that they participate in when they do the CF EXPRES test.  The form has checkboxes for certain sports and if you have these checked then you are considered on-duty while participating.  

I'm trying to recall all of the sports listed in the 09 Canforgen, but from memory there's boxing, MMA, forced marches, bungee jumping and several others.  I have it on my desk at work since one of my secondary duties is SportsO.

To the person trying to get Muay Thai approved, good luck.  I had a buddy who was a high level competitive kickboxer and was very specifically told that he was not covered if he was injured in training or competition when he applied for approval.  He still competed anyway and was fortunately never injured to the point that it impacted his ability to work.  BJJ is likely, I had approval Jiu-Jitsu (not BJJ) when I was in college.


----------



## ballz

prima6 said:
			
		

> To the person trying to get Muay Thai approved, good luck.  I had a buddy who was a high level competitive kickboxer and was very specifically told that he was not covered if he was injured in training or competition when he applied for approval.  He still competed anyway and was fortunately never injured to the point that it impacted his ability to work.  BJJ is likely, I had approval Jiu-Jitsu (not BJJ) when I was in college.



Well that doesn't make much sense. There's more injuries in many of the "official" CF sports than Muay Thai. Badminton (85% of elite badminton players are sidelined at some point due to an injury every year), Soccer, and Hockey both have a higher injury rate for sure, and isn't there a big Muay Thai thing at CFB Petawawa? Not to mention Tae Kwon Doe is an official CF sport... Seems pretty stupid to me.

I'm confident I'll get it approved and if not I'll go ahead and train in it anyway. I have no intentions in competing, I just want it in case there's ever a situation that requires it, plus it's hella fun and a good workout.


----------



## brandon_

ballz said:
			
		

> ...big Muay Thai thing at CFB Petawawa? Not to mention Tae Kwon Doe is an official CF sport... Seems pretty stupid to me...


There is a big differnce in those two sports.
If im not mistaken mauy thai is similar to boxing, and the idea is too beat in the other persons face in.  While tae kwon doe is the art of self defence you learn how to defend your self. ( it is martial arts so obv some offensive)


----------



## ballz

brandon_ said:
			
		

> There is a big differnce in those two sports.
> If im not mistaken mauy thai is similar to boxing, and the idea is too beat in the other persons face in.  While tae kwon doe is the art of self defence you learn how to defend your self. ( it is martial arts so obv some offensive)



Errr... not really... I don't know a whole lot about either of them but Taekwondo is definately not all defense. If it were, they wouldn't be able to have Taekwondo competitions. Taekwondo seems more based on kicking than anything else. I do know they do more self-defense in the actual training, but the CF has competitions too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGz35FyV0U&feature=fvst couple nice kicks to the face and head in this video.

And like I said, I'm pretty sure there's a big MMA thing, Muay Thai being one of the main focuses, in Petawawa, but I  not 100% sure


Edit: "the idea is too beat in the other persons face in" Well that's true for both sports... Muay Thai is just better at it and probably more aggressive


----------



## ballz

The following are recognized sports or activities for the Canadian Forces and are approved by the Commanding Officer as part of the CFS St. John’s fitness and sports program when organized or authorized by Station authorities:


Badminton                             Golf                         Soccer

Bowling                                 Hockey                  Softball 

Basketball                              Racquet ball          Squash   

Ball Hockey                           Rock Climbing      Swimming 

Broomball                              Rugby                    Touch Football 

Canoeing/kayaking              Running                 TaeKwonDo

Curling                                   Sailing                    Tennis 

Cross Country Skiing          Shooting                Triathlon     

Cycling                                  Skating                   Volleyball 

Flag Football                         Snow Shoeing      Weight Training

Rowing                  



4.             Members are also advised to refer to CFAO 50-3 with respect to participation in Out Service Competition.  While some activities may be listed above, if they are not conducted as part of the Station program, more specific approval is required. (eg: Running is an approved activity but participation in a civilian organized 10 km road race will require specific approval for each event).  In such cases, an application form (see CFAO 50-3) must be submitted to the approving authority.  The Fitness, Sports and Recreation Coord (FS&R Coord) is responsible to ensure the information is accurate and that the individual has achieved the CF physical fitness standard prior to onward submission.



I have CFAO-50-3 on hand and can post it.... it's like 10 pages long but would answer almost any questions to do with the CF and sports... Mods? Should I post it?


----------



## X-mo-1979

Im good.I figured kayaking would be good to go. :nod:


----------



## Roy Harding

ballz said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> I have CFAO-50-3 on hand and can post it.... it's like 10 pages long but would answer almost any questions to do with the CF and sports... Mods? Should I post it?



I think the link should do it.  The CFPSA page, found here:  http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/policies_e.asp  has many useful links, including CFAO 50-3.  Some links on that page (including CFAO 50-3) lead to DWAN only pages - which means that if you're not on a DWAN computer, you can't get to them.

I _suspect_ that all who need the detailed policies will have access to a DWAN computer - no need to post entire articles, which may be amended at any time, making the posting not only redundant, but incorrect.


Roy


----------



## prima6

ballz said:
			
		

> Well that doesn't make much sense. There's more injuries in many of the "official" CF sports than Muay Thai. Badminton (85% of elite badminton players are sidelined at some point due to an injury every year), Soccer, and Hockey both have a higher injury rate for sure, and isn't there a big Muay Thai thing at CFB Petawawa? Not to mention Tae Kwon Doe is an official CF sport... Seems pretty stupid to me.
> 
> I'm confident I'll get it approved and if not I'll go ahead and train in it anyway. I have no intentions in competing, I just want it in case there's ever a situation that requires it, plus it's hella fun and a good workout.



You can find many policies in which sense has not been applied.

If you've ever been to a kickboxing match (or watched K1 or anything) and have seen a Tae Kwon Do competition you'd see there's a gigantic difference.  When I was training Muay Thai in college I went to the Tae Kwon Do nationals that were held at RMC in 2004.  If you consider force of impact our Muay Thai sparring sessions were at a much higher level than the Tae Kwon Do competition.  Tae Kwon Do in this instance uses a points sparring system and this is the same as that used by the CF Tae Kwon Do.


----------



## ballz

prima6 said:
			
		

> You can find many policies in which sense has not been applied.
> 
> If you've ever been to a kickboxing match (or watched K1 or anything) and have seen a Tae Kwon Do competition you'd see there's a gigantic difference.  When I was training Muay Thai in college I went to the Tae Kwon Do nationals that were held at RMC in 2004.  If you consider force of impact our Muay Thai sparring sessions were at a much higher level than the Tae Kwon Do competition.  Tae Kwon Do in this instance uses a points sparring system and this is the same as that used by the CF Tae Kwon Do.



AFAIK the points system is the standard for TKD and they use it in the Olympics. I know there's a dramatic difference in appearance and Muay Thai seems much more vicious but the stats (albeit awfully hard to come by) suggest otherwise.

"Only one study of Muay Thai kickboxing, a sport and martial art centered on competitive fighting, was found. Muay Thai kickboxing has an injury rate of between 2 to 14 per 1,000 participants per year. (16) This is a rate is similar to injury rates in other striking arts such as taekwondo and karate. Although deaths occur in Muay Thai, as in boxing, sprained fingers and toes, cuts and bruises on the head, face, and neck, and bloody noses are the more typical injuries." http://ejmas.com/jcs/2004jcs/jcsart_landa_0804.htm

I'm pretty disappointed to find that boxing is no longer an official CF sport... I seem to remember seeing a lot of CF Sports HOF inductees on the wall at St. Jean for their boxing. Boxing has a long tradition in military sports. Sad to see it go.


----------



## Stukov

I cannot believe Boxing is not an official sport anymore. I am not one of those individuals who likes to play with a ball. I believe I phased that out when I was 12.


----------



## bdave

ballz said:
			
		

> I'm pretty disappointed to find that boxing is no longer an official CF sport... I seem to remember seeing a lot of CF Sports HOF inductees on the wall at St. Jean for their boxing. Boxing has a long tradition in military sports. Sad to see it go.



WHAT? Why would you take boxing out, of all sports?


----------



## mellian

If it is not covered in terms of insurance and liability, then not a huge of deal as practically all roller derby leagues have insurance for the skaters. I am curious whether playing an unapproved sport could mean simply not allowed. 

The thing with roller derby, due to not being mainstream yet and its portrayal in previous incarnations, some may write it off as an extreme sport when it is not if rugby or hockey is not considered such. So if not in the official list, then one would have a case with the CO?

As for needing approval for events, what is considered as such? All roller derby public bouts have an audience that pay to watch, so one would have to get approval for each bout?

All assuming again that I get into roller derby whereever I may be of course.


----------



## mariomike

mellian said:
			
		

> All assuming again that I get into roller derby whenever I may be of course.



Good luck with that! If you don't mind a little "rink rash".
http://www.hoogrrl.com/uploaded_images/rollerderby-791162.jpg
http://novasupreni.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/768px-roller_derby_1950.jpg


----------



## mellian

mariomike said:
			
		

> Good luck with that! If you don't mind a little "rink rash".
> http://www.hoogrrl.com/uploaded_images/rollerderby-791162.jpg
> http://novasupreni.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/768px-roller_derby_1950.jpg



The first was in postsecret and the second reminds me of the instinctive jump I did last weekend in New Jersey when some skaters fell in front of me and when I could not get around them. Yay for training.


----------



## mariomike

mellian said:
			
		

> The first was in postsecret



You could not see it?
It says, "I lost my job last week, and I have to move away to another city. I told my boyfriend and my parents, but *I'm afraid to tell my roller derby team.*  ;D


----------



## mellian

mariomike said:
			
		

> You could not see it?
> It says, "I lost my job last week, and I have to move away to another city. I told my boyfriend and my parents, but *I'm afraid to tell my roller derby team.*  ;D



That is what I meant, I first saw it at the postsecret blog.


----------

