# PM diverts his plane to Cyprus to pick up families, Thats Leadership



## 3rd Horseman (19 Jul 2006)

PM Harper is changing his flight plans out of Paris and diverting to Cyprus to pick up Candian Refugees. He claims it is just the right thing to do. Nicely done great leadership by the PM. In the past government Airbuses have been refused for such issues because it would disrupt the politicians using the plane. Keep up the good work.


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## paracowboy (19 Jul 2006)

well done, him!


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## Guardian (19 Jul 2006)

Good on him. Lead by example.

I'm liking that guy more every day.


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## GAP (19 Jul 2006)

This is a pleasant change....and without the media to spotlight him. A leader maybe?


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## vonGarvin (19 Jul 2006)

First he is criticised by the Opposition for taking a stand (eg: making a decision? how dare he!) with regards to the conflict.  (Lemme see here, on one side is a legitimate government, with whom we have diplomatic relations and on the other is an islamo-fascist terror organisation deliberately targetting civilians).  I think that Jack Leyton said that Mr. Harper is throwing away Canadian Tradition. I agree.  We have a PM who actually takes a stand on matters and makes decisions: upsetting some 13 or so years of Lieberal tradition ;D


Next he flies to Cyprus to pick up Canadians fleeing a war.  Well done. 
Proud to be Canadian?  Haven't felt this way since I last heard that song from the Dayglo Abortions (Google it: it's a real group from BC I think)


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Jul 2006)

+2 PM Harper.


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## vonGarvin (19 Jul 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/19/harper-evacuation.html

Link to the story on the cbc website

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060719/harper_paris060719/20060719?hub=TopStories

And the ctv story.  Apparently he's heading there this afternoon


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## GAP (19 Jul 2006)

This is the Counselar Service message put out by Foreign Affairs

Lebanon - security 


MESSAGE TO CANADIANS IN LEBANON (18 JULY 2006)
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/sos/ci/cur-en.asp?txt_ID=808

The Canadian Government has arranged for sea vessels to assist Canadians wishing to depart Lebanon.   All costs related to the evacuation of Canadian citizens from Lebanon will be borne by the Government of Canada.  

Canadians should register with the Embassy on-line.  If you know a Canadian citizen who is not registered, please pass this message to him/her and ask him/her to register immediately.  Canadians who have registered will receive updates on evacuation options as they become available.  

Current planning would see departures from Lebanon beginning Wednesday July 19, 2006.  You will be contacted by the Canadian Embassy shortly and provided with specific departure details (port of embarkation; day and time of embarkation) at that time.  PLEASE DO NOT COME TO THE EMBASSY.          

The primary points of disembarkation will be Cyprus and Turkey where Canadian officials will be on site to assist Canadian citizens and their non Canadian dependants.  Upon arrival, Canadians and their dependants will be transferred to chartered aircraft to return to Canada.   

Canadians and their dependants should gather their passports and other important documents.  Canadians who possess expired Canadian travel documents will be issued emergency passports. 
More on link


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## CanadaPhil (19 Jul 2006)

Between Peter Mansbridges recent " I bet I can show that I am a bigger idiot than Dan Rather" rants and the constant negative whining and Monday morning quarterbacking of expert "journalists", I really dont know what to make of the CBC anymore?

Case in point..... This morning I am flipping channels and there are video scenes of what appear to be rather cheerful looking, at ease people being checked off a very thick multi-page list at the Canadian Embassy. There are other scenes of relaxed looking people calmly boarding a chartered cruise ship and being greeted by the ships crew on the dock.

However, the audio voice over is of an agitated woman with a thick Lebanese accent whining and complaining  about how "Canadians" are not doing enough and that in her opinion everything is disorganized.  She then goes on to a little tirade about how see and her children had to "wait in the sun" before boarding while her documents were checked or something to that effect.

Are you $%$^#&* kidding me???


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## vonGarvin (19 Jul 2006)

Hey
If things are going well, what kind of story is that?  Some one is ALWAYS pissed off about something.  "We had to wait in the sun".  Too friggin bad.  I mean, really.  People are dying over there, and her complaint is "too much sun".  


Back of the line.  Here's some sun screen.  Move along.


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## FredDaHead (19 Jul 2006)

CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> However, the audio voice over is of an agitated woman with a thick Lebanese accent whining and complaining



Seems to me there's a LOT of agitated women with thick Lebanese accents whining and complaining (I prefer the term "bitching" personally) on TV lately.

Where once stood journalism, we now face anti-Israeli propaganda, wall-to-wall. Even CNN is taking a turn towards Hezbollah by showing Lebanese "victims" much more often than Israeli victims.

I bet the people being evacuated will find another reason to bitch and whine once they get out...


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## Big Red (19 Jul 2006)

I hope the gov't bills the evacuated for all of the costs involved.


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## Gunnar (19 Jul 2006)

I expect bad press on this issue.  Why?  Because:  



> The rest of the Canadian delegation and reporters who have been travelling with the prime minister have been told that they can not stay on the plane for the same reason.


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## CanadaPhil (19 Jul 2006)

Oh check that...

Now it looks like ALL the video clips are of "CHAOS" at the port of Beirut. 

<sigh>

I can think of images of pissed off Christmas travellers at Pearson International whos flights had been cancelled due to a snowstorm that looked more "CHAOTIC".

And last year, I personally waited nearly 2 hours in humid summer heat to get on a roller coaster at Canada's Wonderland.
DAMN YOU STEPHEN HARPER!!!


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## Rory (19 Jul 2006)

Proud day to be Canadian when your own PM detours to Cyprus to help with the hostage evacuation.


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## GO!!! (19 Jul 2006)

> The rest of the Canadian delegation and reporters who have been travelling with the prime minister have been told that they can not stay on the plane for the same reason.


Well, I guess the reporters will have to suffer some of the ill treatment they dish out on the PM on a daily basis. My heart bleeds.

He should drop them off somewhere really nice - like Baghdad.


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## George Wallace (19 Jul 2006)

CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> However, the audio voice over is of an agitated woman with a thick Lebanese accent whining and complaining  about how "Canadians" are not doing enough and that in her opinion everything is disorganized.  She then goes on to a little tirade about how see and her children had to "wait in the sun" before boarding while her documents were checked or something to that effect.



And who will be first in line to cash in on her unused tickets and Travel Insurance looking for a Refund or Travel Credits for her next trip?


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## Dankai (19 Jul 2006)

I guess they just want to be handed some beach chairs, beach umbrealla and some nice cold drinks while waiting to get out... c'mon our gov't isnt doing enough? Some people are just way too spoiled imo to say "we have been waiting in the heat for a few hours".


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## karl28 (19 Jul 2006)

Hey all just got this from  the sympatico.msn.ca web page thought that some might find it interesting  I think this is the first time that I have heard of a PM using his personale plane  to evacuate people . Sorry for the long link 

PM en route to Cyprus to collect Canadian evacuees 
19/07/2006 12:05:46 PM  

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  Printer-friendly page 


Prime Minister Stephen Harper has left France bound for Cyprus, where his Canadian Forces Airbus will be filled with Canadians evacuated from Lebanon for the trip home.


CTV.ca News Staff 

Canadian nationals wait to be evacuated on six chartered passenger ships that were positioned off the coast, at Beirut seaport, in Lebanon on Wednesday. (AP / Mahmoud Tawil)  

The Airbus, which can carry up to 120 people, was stripped down to hold as many evacuees as possible, said CTV's David Akin, who was with Harper in France. 

"He's going to ditch all the media that have travelled with him, ditch the rest of his delegation. Just a skeleton staff, Prime Minister Harper and his wife and about four or five staff, will travel to Cyprus as soon as they can," Akin said earlier Wednesday. 

The plane left Paris at 11:45 ET.

Harper believes it's the right decision. 

"It's more than a symbolic trip," Harper told reporters at a Paris news conference on Wednesday. 

"We will have a significant number of seats. We believe it's the right thing to do." 

The flight to Larnaca, Cyprus takes just under four hours, and the Airbus should arrive at about the same time as the first boatload of Canadians evacuated from Beirut. 

Another plane has also been chartered and dispatched to Cyprus. Together, the planes should be able to accommodate all the 350 or so evacuees arriving on the first boat. 

"This action in and of itself will not resolve the many challenges faced by the thousands of Canadians who may want to leave Lebanon, but it allows us to do what we can with what we have to ensure the safe and secure return of Canadians," Harper said. 

Reporters asked Harper why he and his wife weren't also staying behind, in order to free up more seats for evacuees. They were told the prime minister is not permitted to fly on commercial flights for security reasons, but must travel in a Canadian military aircraft. 

Concerns about arrival of evacuees

CTV's Dan Matheson, reporting from the port in Larnaca, Cyprus, said there are concerns about how the port will handle the arrival of so many evacuees. 

"It's a cargo and a freighter port. They handle very few passengers here. We're a little concerned that the folks here might be overwhelmed if they start wheeling in some ships full of evacuees. The Americans are expecting a big ship with 1,100 people to come in here at about midnight." 

By Wednesday morning there was little evidence that preparations were underway to receive the thousands of evacuees expected to begin arriving later on Wednesday, Matheson said. 

"Wednesday is some kind of a collective day off here," he told CTV Newsnet. 

"The parking lots are empty, there's nobody working here, there's no sign of emergency services, there's no tents, there's no medical facilities, there's no food or water that we can see. What we can see is the world's media here to welcome their nationals." 

The Conservative government has been criticized for its slow reaction to the situation in Lebanon, where approximately 30,000 Canadians are trapped as fighting rages between Israel and Hezbollah. 

Harper has been meeting with French President Jacques Chirac in Paris today. 

Few details have been released about the nature of their talks, though the two leaders reportedly discussed a wide range of bilateral and international issues. 

Harper also met with French Premier Dominique de Villepin on Tuesday. During their meeting they discussed the ongoing crisis in Lebanon. 

Earlier Wednesday, Harper took phone calls from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Australian PM John Howard. 

Olmert reportedly expressed his condolences over the recent deaths of a Canadian family vacationing in Lebanon, and pledged to help evacuate Canadians. 

Seven members of the Al-Akhrass family, including four young children, were on vacation when they were killed Sunday as Israel bombed the southern village of Aitaroun. 

According to federal officials in Ottawa, Olmert reiterated Israel's desire to avoid unnecessary deaths and said Israel would do whatever it could to facilitate in the evacuation of Canadians. 

Howard called Harper asking for help getting Australians out of Lebanon. Harper reportedly promised Canada would do whatever it could. 

Speaking in France on Tuesday, Harper defended the Canadian government's response to the crisis. 

"There have been literally hundreds of federal employees who have been working day and night for the past several days to put in place the largest evacuation of Canadian citizens from another country in our history,'' Harper said following discussions about the Mideast crisis with de Villepin. 

The government has chartered seven ships to take Canadians out of Beirut and ferry them to either Cyprus or Turkey. From there they will be flown home on government-leased jets.


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## Koenigsegg (19 Jul 2006)

Or over the Atlantic.


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## Shamrock (19 Jul 2006)

Next complaint will be about unsanctioned use of government vehicles.


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## garb811 (19 Jul 2006)

If they played it right they'd end up at the APOE in Cyprus, prefectly situated to cover the ongoing evacuation and the job FAC (and other government departments) are doing to facilitate it.  

Having said that, if I was one of the many on this site who had a low opinion of the mindset of mainstream media and their "reporters" I would guess that being the PMs media pool they would quickly decide that getting out into the field and actually doing some reporting regarding the common folk would be below them...and they'd offload in France and spend their time complaining of their fate while having the best French cheese with their whine...    >


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## CanadaPhil (19 Jul 2006)

Thanks for that. Good on you Mr. Harper!

Its too bad that it will only be used by critics stating it is "nothing more than a photo op". This has already begun!

Rest assured that our diligent media will probably be wading through those 120 evacuees on landing in Cyprus in order to get a little anti-government rant for this evenings sound bites. 

The questioning will probably begin like this......"How do you feel about the thousands of defenceless women & children who were left behind by the Prime Minister"


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## CanadaPhil (19 Jul 2006)

Callsign Kenny said:
			
		

> Next complaint will be about unsanctioned use of government vehicles.



Yep....Will probably come from Bill Graham.

PS: Thank you Mr. Harper for restoring some dignity back to the Prime Minister's Office.


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## karl28 (19 Jul 2006)

Hey man your welcome and yeah your probably right sadly the media is no better than a pack of wild dogs gnawing at a bone


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Jul 2006)

Good on Action Man. At this point Mr Dithers would still be...... well....... dithering, and Cretin share his plane? pffftt. 

Jeez, now all those journalists have to fly back coach on the company dime. I wonder how many are going to try claim the trip against the government. To bad we don't have a couple of spare C-17's kicking around

I can just imagine the scene at the airport in France. 

"What about Harper, what's so special about him? I gotta stay, why doesn't he. Who's gonna buy me lunch. I don't know where my passport is!!! How do you voulez vous where's the cheapest hotel close to here???" Hey, HEY, I'll sell you this tape recorder for 10 euro OK??."


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## Rice0031 (19 Jul 2006)

I don't understand about the lady who complained about the heat.
Our government is trying to get her out of there to save  HER LIFE and the life of her family so that they can live to see another day... and she complains about it being too hot. Well what is it gonna be? Stay home and possibly get bombed, or wait in the slightly uncomfortable, but non life-threatening heat, to be saved? C'mon people!


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Jul 2006)

Quote from: Rory on Today at 12:08:18


> Proud day to be Canadian when your own PM detours to Cyprus to help with the hostage evacuation.




Who said anything about hostages? Don't try to make it sound worse than it is. Get your fact s first!! Trying to get promoted?

 What are you? A journalist???


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Jul 2006)

Sorry if this got confusing. I merged these two subjects and things might be a little out of order. I think it's OK now.


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## Gramps (19 Jul 2006)

Rory said:
			
		

> Proud day to be Canadian when your own PM detours to Cyprus to help with the hostage evacuation.



Hostages?? Maybe I was reading this thread too fast but I didn't see anything about hostages. Also, as for the woman complaining about waiting in the heat, maybe if some of us were in the same situation we would be complaining too. I figure if you are under threat of being killed by bombings and shelling then you have the right to complain about a lot of things.


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## paracowboy (19 Jul 2006)

Gramps said:
			
		

> Hostages?? Maybe I was reading this thread too fast but I didn't see anything about hostages. Also, as for the woman complaining about waiting in the heat, maybe if some of us were in the same situation we would be complaining too. I figure if you are under threat of being killed by bombings and shelling then you have the right to complain about a lot of things.


that's the point. She wasn't in any immediate danger.


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## cplcaldwell (19 Jul 2006)

Nice to see a PM lead. 

(I have removed the rest of my post as I see a new thread has been created that is more suitable to my rant)


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## Gramps (19 Jul 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> that's the point. She wasn't in any immediate danger.



I would think that the people there may perceive the threat in a different light. Since perception is reality for most people she may tend to think that the threat is greater than it really is to her. The Lebanese Government has stated that there are about 300 dead and 1000 wounded, that may make people in all parts of the country feel a little threatened wheather they are having shells or bombs dropping near them or not. 
If someone is scared or angry (or both) they may say things that come straight from emotion and not necessarily from the reality of the situation. Yes I understand the point about her not being in immediate danger but who knows what is going through someones mind in that situation. I don't think it makes her an ungrateful citizen but maybe she doesn't know the scope of the whole situation or have all of the information she needs. And if all she has to complain about is the heat and the wait then I would say that she had a relatively good day compared to some.


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## canadianblue (20 Jul 2006)

It's great to see a PM lead by example, hopefully he'll keep this leadership style and lead for the next decade.


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## 1feral1 (20 Jul 2006)

+1 for Harper!


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## civmick (20 Jul 2006)

UK ops in Leb

6 naval assets, RAF Akrotiri, not to mention *C-17*
20,000 to get out
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/FactsheetEvacuationOperationsInLebanon.htm

Canadian ops in Leb
No naval assets in theatre
No C-17s and only a 310 because Harper diverted.
50,000 to get out...

If I was Bill Graham I'd be hiding right now, not camera whoring.


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## Blackadder1916 (20 Jul 2006)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Jeez, now all those journalists have to fly back coach on the company dime. I wonder how many are going to try claim the trip against the government. To bad we don't have a couple of spare C-17's kicking around



AFAIK .. the media travelling with the PM on government aircraft pay airfare at a business class rate for the seat that they occupy.


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## chaos75 (20 Jul 2006)

IMO this is Harper taking advantage of the situation for a photo op.  He could care less about the people stranded over there, hence Canada being one of the last governments to organize an evacuation.  Like giving up the room for 50 or so people on his plane is this grand gesture, I wonder who the people will be, likely some prominent or influential members of the Lebanese community so he can score brownie points there too.  PM should have treated them all equally, got flights and ships booked days before he did, and flew himself back home to work on all the million other issues going on in the world right now.  Oh wait, he is too busy crouched beside Bush at the oval office getting scratched behind the ear.


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2006)

blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> AFAIK .. the media travelling with the PM on government aircraft pay airfare at a business class rate for the seat that they occupy.



Got a reference?


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## CanadaPhil (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> IMO this is Harper taking advantage of the situation for a photo op.  He could care less about the people stranded over there, hence Canada being one of the last governments to organize an evacuation.  Like giving up the room for 50 or so people on his plane is this grand gesture, I wonder who the people will be, likely some prominent or influential members of the Lebanese community so he can score brownie points there too.  PM should have treated them all equally, got flights and ships booked days before he did, and flew himself back home to work on all the million other issues going on in the world right now.  Oh wait, he is too busy crouched beside Bush at the oval office getting scratched behind the ear.



I am amazed that someone with that amount of "Anti-EVERYTHING" actually serves or served in our military. My first impression of you is that you are  (thankfully) one of those very few who signed up just because he needed a job.


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## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> IMO this is Harper taking advantage of the situation for a photo op.  He could care less about the people stranded over there, hence Canada being one of the last governments to organize an evacuation.  Like giving up the room for 50 or so people on his plane is this grand gesture, I wonder who the people will be, likely some prominent or influential members of the Lebanese community so he can score brownie points there too.  PM should have treated them all equally, got flights and ships booked days before he did, and flew himself back home to work on all the million other issues going on in the world right now.  Oh wait, he is too busy crouched beside Bush at the oval office getting scratched behind the ear.



I suppose you should break your comments down and look at them a little more closely:



			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> IMO this is Harper taking advantage of the situation for a photo op.


Pretty hard to do, when he kicked all the Press off the plane in Paris, and would not even allow one Journalist to accompany his party to Cyprus.  On his arrival in Cyprus, he has remained on his plane, as there was no accommodations immediately available to him......Not much of chance for a Photo op there.



			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> He could care less about the people stranded over there, hence Canada being one of the last governments to organize an evacuation.


And you could have done better with all the resources of the US or France, who have 'Resources' in the vicinity......yada....yada....yada.  Can you book me a hotel and transportation for my trip to visit you tonight?  



			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> Like giving up the room for 50 or so people on his plane is this grand gesture, I wonder who the people will be, likely some prominent or influential members of the Lebanese community so he can score brownie points there too.


He has more seats than that on the plane.  There are probably enough seats for 90% of the first load to arrive in Cyprus, while other aircraft are on the way.  I also guess that your Lebanese prominent and influential friends all have names that are first in alphabetical order......and the further back in the alphabet your name starts with, the less prominent or influential you are.  Come on, the first out of Lebanon were the first in alphabetical order.  I am sure that all of them are not in any way 'prominent'.  What brownie points would you give him there?



			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> PM should have treated them all equally, got flights and ships booked days before he did, and flew himself back home to work on all the million other issues going on in the world right now.


I think he is treating them all equally.  Perhaps your friend or relative isn't on the first out, and if that is the case - Get Stuffed.  As for flights and ships, perhaps you should blame the Liberals for not buying those for us ten years ago.   :  

At the start of your tirade, you want him to take action, then you go on to complain he isn't back home working on all the million other issues going on in the world today.  Make up your mind.  Is he the head of the UN, or the Prime Minister of Canada?  



			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> Oh wait, he is too busy crouched beside Bush at the oval office getting scratched behind the ear.


AH!  YES!  THE GRATUITOUS ANTI-AMERICAN RANT.  I guess I wasted my time with your post after all.


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## vonGarvin (20 Jul 2006)

(Post is self-deleted in order to keep the trolls hungry.  I am now placing myself in the corner so that I can think about what I did wrong)
:dontpanic:


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2006)




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## GAP (20 Jul 2006)

hehehe


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## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> IMO this is Harper taking advantage of the situation for a photo op.  He could care less about the people stranded over there, hence Canada being one of the last governments to organize an evacuation.  Like giving up the room for 50 or so people on his plane is this grand gesture, I wonder who the people will be, likely some prominent or influential members of the Lebanese community so he can score brownie points there too.  PM should have treated them all equally, got flights and ships booked days before he did, and flew himself back home to work on all the million other issues going on in the world right now.  Oh wait, he is too busy crouched beside Bush at the oval office getting scratched behind the ear.


Photo op? I doubt it. Good PR for the PM's office? Maybe. Maybe more focus should be put on the fact that they were picked up by the PM and not why he picked them up. I think is says something that he was willing to take the aircraft and pick up people. Would previous PMs have done the same? Maybe, maybe not. In this situation the "why" doesn't really matter. By the way you can fit more than 50 passengers on an airbus, they also cut the crew down to the minimum to free up the extra few seats. Depending on which Airbus it was you can put up to 192 passengers on board and that isn't counting the extra crew seats.

Edit: I am illiterate


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## chaos75 (20 Jul 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> Your post is full of excrement.  But this final sentence tops the list.  I suppose you'd rather have Carolyn Parrish snubbing Bush on "This Hour" and thus souring relations with our greatest trading partner?  Hating the US President because he's the President of the United States is prejudicial.



Where did it say I hated Bush.  Was simply stating that Harper is bringing Canada's foreign policy more and more in line with the US every day.  Completely blaming Hezbollah and validating the Israelis is a mistake in my opinion.  But since that's against the status quo right wing, I guess I'm in the wrong there.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> I suppose you should break your comments down and look at them a little more closely:
> Pretty hard to do, when he kicked all the Press off the plane in Paris, and would not even allow one Journalist to accompany his party to Cyprus.  On his arrival in Cyprus, he has remained on his plane, as there was no accommodations immediately available to him......Not much of chance for a Photo op there.



Just doing hat he has so far is his photo op as it is all over the news.  A actual great gesture would have been for the PM to kick everyone off the plane but the crew including himself, fly home coach at his own expense, and have the airbus make as many trips necessary to evacuate all remaining Canadians.  But hey this way he can fly home with some new prospective votes.




			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> I also guess that your Lebanese prominent and influential friends all have names that are first in alphabetical order......and the further back in the alphabet your name starts with, the less prominent or influential you are.  Come on, the first out of Lebanon were the first in alphabetical order.  I am sure that all of them are not in any way 'prominent'.  What brownie points would you give him there?
> I think he is treating them all equally.  Perhaps your friend or relative isn't on the first out, and if that is the case - Get Stuffed.  As for flights and ships, perhaps you should blame the Liberals for not buying those for us ten years ago.   :



I have no current friends in the present situation, but thanks for your support there.  Maybe you should take some of your own advice (getting stuffed), and take your anti-Liberal rant somewhere else.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> At the start of your tirade, you want him to take action, then you go on to complain he isn't back home working on all the million other issues going on in the world today.  Make up your mind.  Is he the head of the UN, or the Prime Minister of Canada?
> AH!  YES!  THE GRATUITOUS ANTI-AMERICAN RANT.  I guess I wasted my time with your post after all.



Well any issue that affects Canada is a job for the PM, maybe he can take some time off when he gets back after all this drama too recover too.  As for wasting your time on here, judging by the number fo post you make on this site, I would agree with your statement.



			
				CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> I am amazed that someone with that amount of "Anti-EVERYTHING" actually serves or served in our military. My first impression of you is that you are  (thankfully) one of those very few who signed up just because he needed a job.



I'm always amazed that people as narrow minded as you get in the military as well.  But hey I guess free speech and non-right wing thoughts are not allowed here.  Aside from that, any time you wish to discuss my character or dedication to this country, pm me and we can arrange something.


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## CanadaPhil (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> I'm always amazed that people as narrow minded as you get in the military as well.  But hey I guess free speech and non-right wing thoughts are not allowed here.  Aside from that, any time you wish to discuss my character or dedication to this country, pm me and we can arrange something.



I think that it is unbecoming to say the least when a serving member of the military openly impugns the integrity of our serving Prime Minister in such a vile fashion. Especially one who is committed to making our armed forces as professional and prepared as they can be, given our situation.

I doubt the majority of the good people of Gagetown would want to have a beer with you. I would suggest that you replace the pic. of the Leopard with a tiny violin.


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## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> Where did it say I hated Bush.  Was simply stating that Harper is bringing Canada's foreign policy more and more in line with the US every day.  Completely blaming Hezbollah and validating the Israelis is a mistake in my opinion.  But since that's against the status quo right wing, I guess I'm in the wrong there.


Your insinuations were quite obvious.


			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> Just doing hat he has so far is his photo op as it is all over the news.  A actual great gesture would have been for the PM to kick everyone off the plane but the crew including himself, fly home coach at his own expense, and have the airbus make as many trips necessary to evacuate all remaining Canadians.  But hey this way he can fly home with some new prospective votes.


.....Or he could have just flown straight home like previous Prime Ministers...... Oh!  So sorry that I just fell into your 'Anti-Liberal' profile of me.... :




			
				chaos75 said:
			
		

> ...... and take your anti-Liberal rant somewhere else.


   :


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## GAP (20 Jul 2006)

hehehe


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## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> I have no current friends in the present situation, but thanks for your support there.  Maybe you should take some of your own advice (getting stuffed), and take your anti-Liberal rant somewhere else.



I do happen to know a couple of people that are stranded just outside of Beirut (they were my employers in PEI a few years ago). They were infact checking in for their flight when the runway was bombed. They have not (to my knowledge) been upset with the reaction from the Government for the evacuation and are simply waiting for the call from the embassy. Now granted, I have not personally spoken to them or any of their family but from what I know they too waited for hours in the heat, you cant get much closer to the bombings than they were and walk away but from what I understand they seemed relatively content with the evacuation plan but I will have to ask them next time I see them to get the full story.

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe the PM's office decided to do this out of good will or a conscience or maybe even to serve the citizens of this country?


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## FredDaHead (20 Jul 2006)

Gramps said:
			
		

> Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe the PM's office decided to do this out of good will or a conscience or maybe even to serve the citizens of this country?



Good will from a PM's office? A government serving the people? That's unpossible!

Just kidding, I totally agree with you, but the previous governments have jaded me. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!


----------



## chaos75 (20 Jul 2006)

CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> I think that is unbecoming to say the least when a serving member of the military openly impugns the integrity of our serving Prime Minister in such a vile fashion. Especially one who is committed to making our armed forces as professional and prepared as they can be, given our situation.
> 
> I doubt the majority of the good people of Gagetown would want to have a beer with you. I would suggest that you replace the pic. of the Leopard with a tiny violin.



As per my previous post, since you continue to insult my integrity, it shows your ignorance to all the readers here.  I know I wouldn't have a beer with you if I was in Gagetown.  As for my icon, I'm pretty sure I've earned the right to use that picture.  Again if you wish to discuss, the pm button is not hard to find.



			
				Gramps said:
			
		

> Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe the PM's office decided to do this out of good will or a conscience or maybe even to serve the citizens of this country?



I would hope so, but I am somewhat of a cynic, and anyone who follows politics, knows theres always an angle to every political action.  In the end Kudos to the PM for at least doing something, no other world leader who was over for the G8 made a similar gesture.  However I agree with George that Canada has no continual assets in that region, but I maintain that they were slow on the draw organizing ships and planes.


----------



## paracowboy (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> I guess I'm in the wrong there.


yes, you are, but at least you're aware of your short-comings and can now work to improve them. Good luck with that.


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

Frederik G said:
			
		

> Just kidding, I totally agree with you, but the previous governments have jaded me. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!



Your putting forward an interesting point.  I haven't heard this Government yet make any comment towards cutting or not funding any program, Defence or other, because it would cut into Medicare.  Perhaps we are going to see results in many areas.  This I think is a sign of what this Government has the potential of doing.


----------



## chaos75 (20 Jul 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> yes, you are, but at least you're aware of your short-comings and can now work to improve them. Good luck with that.



Wouldnt have expected anything else but something like that from you.


----------



## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> I would hope so, but I am somewhat of a cynic, and anyone who follows politics, knows theres always an angle to every political action.  In the end Kudos to the PM for at least doing something, no other world leader who was over for the G8 made a similar gesture.  However I agree with George that Canada has no continual assets in that region, but I maintain that they were slow on the draw organizing ships and planes.



I am about as cynical as they come (just read some of my older posts, you will see) but I just don't get the feeling that this one was for PR alone. Sure the PR the PM will get from this will serve him well, I don't doubt that one bit but I still feel that this may have been done simply just to help out. I agree too that there is always a spin put on almost all political actions by the PM's office, the opposition and the media as well, somewhere buried in all three points of view there may be some actual truth although it is usually hard to find.


----------



## Gunnar (20 Jul 2006)

> Just doing hat he has so far is his photo op as it is all over the news.  A actual great gesture would have been for the PM to kick everyone off the plane but the crew including himself, fly home coach at his own expense, and have the airbus make as many trips necessary to evacuate all remaining Canadians.  But hey this way he can fly home with some new prospective votes.



If you read the entire thread, and are somewhat familiar with the Prime Minister's position as the head of government, you will realize that Canadian Law does not permit him to take his life into his own hands, i.e., be in a position where the Canadian government can't protect him, such as flying home coach.  He HAS done the closest thing he is permitted to do to offering up his plane in the manner you describe.

Or would you suggest that it is a responsible thing for the man in charge to pretend he's just another ordinary citizen, and fly alone, without security, leaving himself an open target to any crazy who happens to dislike Canada?


----------



## paracowboy (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> Wouldnt have expected anything else but something like that from you.


oh, good! I do *so* hate to disappoint!


----------



## chaos75 (20 Jul 2006)

Gunnar said:
			
		

> If you read the entire thread, and are somewhat familiar with the Prime Minister's position as the head of government, you will realize that Canadian Law does not permit him to take his life into his own hands, i.e., be in a position where the Canadian government can't protect him, such as flying home coach.  He HAS done the closest thing he is permitted to do to offering up his plane in the manner you describe.
> 
> Or would you suggest that it is a responsible thing for the man in charge to pretend he's just another ordinary citizen, and fly alone, without security, leaving himself an open target to any crazy who happens to dislike Canada?



Im sure they could have arranged alternate transportation for the PM and his family, and kept well within safety regs for VIP travel.  Why did he have to go with them and take up that two extra seats?


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> Im sure they could have arranged alternate transportation for the PM and his family, and kept well within safety regs for VIP travel.  Why did he have to go with them and take up that two extra seats?


That would have involved sending another aircraft over for him.  An aircraft that would have had to be converted to take him.  The aircraft he has has a 'secure suite' for him and would have been closed to any of the 'refugees' anyway.  It would have wasted more time, something that you have already complained about.  So if he did as you suggest or did what he did do, there would have been no difference in the amount of seats available for 'refugees'.


----------



## GAP (20 Jul 2006)

There is nothing Harper can do that will sit right with you, so you will just have to get over it.


----------



## CanadaPhil (20 Jul 2006)

BTW, a photo op would have been something like the little guy from Shawinigan putting on a helmet ass backwards.


----------



## vonGarvin (20 Jul 2006)

CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> BTW, a photo op would have been something like the little guy from Shawinigan putting on a helmet *** backwards.


 :rofl:
Now THAT'S comedy!

Thank you!


----------



## GAP (20 Jul 2006)

Yeah, I forgot about that one   ;D


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

Cynical me wonders why Harper would take three communication aides, and his official photographer along for the ride?  Maybe a Challenger jet could get him home safely?


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060720.wharper0719/BNStory/National/home

"Mr. Harper said yesterday that he was being accompanied by only a skeleton staff — three senior communications aides, his official photographer, the logistics chief, the tour director, a doctor and his RCMP bodyguards — in order to accommodate as many evacuees as possible."


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## CanadaPhil (20 Jul 2006)

Geez, here we go again.

In case you are not aware, the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT photograher IS ALWAYS IN THE COMPANY of the Prime Minister. This is the same of the US President and any other western leader I know of.

It is to ensure an OFFICIAL RECORD of the DAILY goings on of the Prime Ministers office and government for history's sake.  It has been this way forever.

The Official Photograher would be with the Prime Minister whether he was cutting a ribbon in downtown Ottawa, or the other side of the world.

No conspiracy theories here folks.


----------



## vonGarvin (20 Jul 2006)

CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> No conspiracy theories here folks.


Uh Oh.  The floodgates have cracked open and guess what's going to come forth: tons and tons of human excrement!  All in the form of "Shrub (little bush) Harper is part of the problem....he causes global warming...he eats babies...."

I'm getting a good seat and I'm going to watch this one unfold


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

It is a 'historic' event that would need some documentation.  It is a Public Affairs affair for which the Press will want to have some sort of 'Release'.  It is not a holiday, and the PM will still have to conduct Government business.  The doctor will be there to ensure the PM's health, and assist the 'refugees' who are not in 100% health.  The PM doesn't go anywhere without his Security Detail.  Some of his staff will be knowledgeable of the plane and be of assistance to the other passengers.  

I don't see anything really there to be cynical about.


----------



## FredDaHead (20 Jul 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't see anything really there to be cynical about.



Of course there isn't, but Bushitler and his puppet Shrubitler can't do anything right in the eyes of the pseudo-intellectual lefties, can they?

I don't think it's safe for the PM to take a bunch of unknown people on his plane, especially without time to confirm their identities and security status. However, it is an action that shows care for his "citizens" who are stuck in a bad place. If I were on his security detail, though, I'd be a bit on edge, I think.

It's kindof like on Star Trek: the Captain shouldn't go on away missions, but if he does it shows how important the mission is.

_(This moment of pure geekness was brought to you by Paramount Pictures.)_


----------



## cplcaldwell (20 Jul 2006)

"Leaders should be seen often and impressively."

Wasn't it Field Marshal Slim that said that? Hmmm what else did he say?

"When you cannot make up your mind on which of two evenly balanced courses of action to take, choose the bolder."

I'm with the PM and Viscount Slim on this one. As for the PM's alleged, unabashed attempt at self promotion (by taking along photog's) so what? I guess Messr's Graham and Layton haven't tried to make any hay on this either, eh? 

(Here's a quote from me  "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck... so what, it's a #$%@ing duck, big deal"(substitute 'politician' where appropriate, the meaning remains).


----------



## Thirstyson (20 Jul 2006)

CanadaPhil said:
			
		

> I think that it is unbecoming to say the least when a serving member of the military openly impugns the integrity of our serving Prime Minister in such a vile fashion.



Never read these forums much during the Chretien days did you mate? Think before you type.


----------



## a_majoor (20 Jul 2006)

Don't forget the photographer should also be taking 120 front and right profile pictures of the "passengers" so other official organs of the Canadian Government and our allies can also have documentation of the event.......


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

Don't know if it's already been mentioned in another thread, but I just found this on CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2006/07/20/lebanon-navy.html

2 navy ships on standby for Lebanon mission

"The crews of two Halifax-based ships have been told to be ready to head to Lebanon on 48 hours' notice.

Military spokeswoman Lieut. Marie-Claude Gagne said Thursday the crew of HMCS Preserver, a supply ship, have been asked to return from leave."


----------



## cplcaldwell (20 Jul 2006)

Interesting that MarCom assets are being stood to. 

Can anyone enlighten us on what comes next? When could they sail? How long would they take to get there?(I know the PAffO is talking two weeks, is that reasonable?)

Given that this may go on for a while; would they be of use? 

For instance, how long can Cyprus support the mass exodus? I'm sure it will tax the infrastructure. Will "Preserver" be of use in that regard?

Also I have read that the Israeli's are being rather strict on the comings and goings of the evacuating ships (i.e. "Blue Dawn" was given a rather circuitous course and stopped twice). Is sending "Halifax" a polite way to tell the Israelis to sod off? 

Opsec withstanding, any prognostications?


----------



## FredDaHead (20 Jul 2006)

cplcaldwell said:
			
		

> Also I have read that the Israeli's are being rather strict on the comings and goings of the evacuating ships (i.e. "Blue Dawn" was given a rather circuitous course and stopped twice). Is sending "Halifax" a polite way to tell the Israelis to sod off?



I think sending HMCS Halifax is probably more of a move by Ottawa to "show" the people we're protecting the poor, poor Lebanese who are trying to get out, than a way to tell the Israelis to back off.

Tel Aviv has already said that evacuees could be moved freely. It's obvious that during a blockade, "freely" is relative: the ships can be moved in and out, but the mission takes priority. I don't think anyone could expect more than that, really.

Mind you, I'm not an expert on international affairs, I'm just a guy who reads Stratfor and other information sources too much... But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. (No, not really.)


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> Military spokeswoman Lieut. Marie-Claude Gagne said Thursday the crew of HMCS Preserver, a supply ship, have been asked to return from leave."



Asked?  Prolly more along the volun-told/ordered back from leave.


----------



## FredDaHead (20 Jul 2006)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> Asked?  Prolly more along the volun-told/ordered back from leave.



Yeah but if they said that there would be rioting in the streets at how "dictatorial" Harper has become...


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (20 Jul 2006)

Good grief Charlie Brown.   :


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

OK, I just saw this one on CTV recently:

http://www.ctv.ca/mar/photo.html?pname=http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20060720/300_ap_cdn_evac1_060720.jpg&win_width=495.0&description=Canadian%20Ambassador%20to%20Lebanon%20Louis%20de%20Lorimier%20hugs%20his%20son%20Felix-Antoine,%209,%20as%20he%20prepares%20to%20put%20him%20and%20his%20other%20son%20Frederique,%2011,%20below-left,%20on%20the%20A.K.%20Gunler%20III%20evacuation%20ship%20along%20with%20other%20Canadian%20citizens%20at%20the%20port%20of%20the%20capital%20Beirut%20in%20Lebanon%20on%20Thursday.%20(AP%20/%20Ben%20Curtis)

Makes me want to be cynical again.


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

70 troops on their way too:  

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/07/20/lebanon-navy.html


----------



## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> 70 troops on their way too:
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/07/20/lebanon-navy.html



From the CBC article:

'For nine days, Israel has been shelling cities and towns in southern Lebanon in retaliation for a raid by the Lebanon-based militant group Hezbollah that led to two Israeli soldiers being captured.'

Of course, no mention of the opposing actions of Hezbollah, or the fact that they raided Israel and kidnapped, not captured the two soldiers:


----------



## canadianblue (20 Jul 2006)

> Quote from: von Garvin on Today at 09:25:42
> Your post is full of excrement.  But this final sentence tops the list.  I suppose you'd rather have Carolyn Parrish snubbing Bush on "This Hour" and thus souring relations with our greatest trading partner?  Hating the US President because he's the President of the United States is prejudicial.
> 
> 
> Where did it say I hated Bush.  Was simply stating that Harper is bringing Canada's foreign policy more and more in line with the US every day.  Completely blaming Hezbollah and validating the Israelis is a mistake in my opinion.  But since that's against the status quo right wing, I guess I'm in the wrong there.



What was our foreign policy before Harper, sit around and be indecisive all the time. No offense but I never ever seem to remember Canada being the bringer of all peace in the world by trying to sit on the sidelines.


----------



## GINge! (20 Jul 2006)

Rice0031 said:
			
		

> I don't understand about the lady who complained about the heat.



Arrghh. I just saw her on the ATV 6pm news - at least I think it is the same one - some lawyer from Halifax yipping about how her chauffer could have taken her elsewhere. Instead the Canadian embassy is submitting her & her family to "starve" while waiting in line. 

Segments like this remind me why I get my news from The Daily Show.


----------



## Bobbyoreo (20 Jul 2006)

Chaos...with people like you no one moves fast enough. HOw fast would it take anyone to get enough ships and planes to ship 30,000 people out of a war zone. Then now thats not good enough no each person has a Canadain home(so Im told) So now what do we do there. Now who feeds them and takes care of these people who choose to live so far away from the people trying to help. 
The man stopped and picked up what he could...even if it was a photo op...which I dont think it was ..he still did more then he had too. If these were the Liberials....we'd still be waiting for someone to tell the PM whats going on!!
I'm truly sick of hear all these news reports about how slow we are moving compared to all these other countries. If you go with the numbers they are shooting out, we have alot more people there then most countries.


----------



## CanadaPhil (20 Jul 2006)

GINge! said:
			
		

> Arrghh. I just saw her on the ATV 6pm news - at least I think it is the same one - some lawyer from Halifax yipping about how her chauffer could have taken her elsewhere. Instead the Canadian embassy is submitting her & her family to "starve" while waiting in line.
> 
> Segments like this remind me why I get my news from The Daily Show.



I caught a clip of someone whining. Was she the one with the oversized, "look at me, I'm just like a celebrity sunglasses"?? She almost looked like she was going to a bar on Miami's South Beach. I think she was expecting to have been served caviar and after dinner mints.

I also like how she started her statements with "THE CANADIANS are not doing enough" Excuse me? Just what was she?? Did someone mistakenly let  a Saudi Arabian onto one of our evacuation ships?  She delivered the statement in a harsh tone that made it sound like she wasn't even a citizen. "THE" Canadians?? geez

I guess I have just gotten a little fed up with the coverage now. Apparently, just over 1,300 have been evacuated today, yet the few odd passengers that are put on show by the MSM are the ones who just want to ***** and moan about everything.

What the media and some of these people seem to easily forget here is that a travel agent has not been booking passage for them on Carinval Cruise Lines. For all intents and purposes, they are "refugees" fleeing an active war zone.


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

Canadian evacuees flying back on Harper's plane:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060719/cyprus_evac_060720/20060720?hub=TopStories

Some ingrates along for the ride too.


----------



## HDE (20 Jul 2006)

I'd imagine the whiners could hop a return trip back to Lebanon if they'd like a second shot at getting a better ship.  As always the media will seek out the noisiest and most controversial and go with them.


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

Wait a minute!  I just re-read my own post and the CTV link.  How come only 63 people vs. 100 are being evacuated and they're flying back to Paris (where the plane actually originated from) to refuel.  I guess Harper didn't like sleeping in an Airbus on the hot Larnaca tarmac.  Cynical me I guess.


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

Yes.....cynical you.....What is your game?


----------



## GAP (20 Jul 2006)

I believe that most airlines fly the circumpolar route between Europe and NA. Isn't that what all those dotted lines with little airplanes mean?


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

What game??  I just wonder about the reasoning behind the decision to initially divert, especially when the plane lands back to refuel where it started from - in Paris?  Makes me think there's a second aircrew/cabin staff  involved here .... ?  Like I said before, I wonder why Harper would take three senior communication officials with him in the first place to Cyprus?


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

Time for you to do some serious thinking.  As GAP pointed out, it is on the way home, and a full tank of gas before crossing the North Atlantic is a smart thing to do.  If Mulroney hadn't closed down Lahr, they would have refueled in Lahr.  Now please go on "Listening Silence".


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

I don't know when the last time you flew on a CF aircraft from South Asia or Europe was, but Paris is definitely not a regular refuelling stop for gas.


----------



## Michael OLeary (20 Jul 2006)

So? What's your point?  Your post history would be better suited to a politics forum, why parachute in here to bang this particular drum?


----------



## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> What game??  I just wonder about the reasoning behind the decision to initially divert, especially when the plane lands back to refuel where it started from - in Paris?  Makes me think there's a second aircrew/cabin staff  involved here .... ?  Like I said before, I wonder why Harper would take three senior communication officials with him in the first place to Cyprus?



And what if there is a second crew? It is not uncommon for a change to take place after the crew day is used up for the initial crew. Really, what is your point? So what, it landed back in France to refuel, this means absolutely nothing at all.


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

Do you have any better suggestions?  Perhaps Gatwick, Heathrow, Frankfurt, Shannon, ........Paris is one of many.


----------



## GINge! (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> I don't know when the last time you flew on a CF aircraft from South Asia or Europe was, but Paris is definitely not a regular refuelling stop for gas.



Paris was indeed a stop when I flew back from Op Pal roto 4.


----------



## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> I don't know when the last time you flew on a CF aircraft from South Asia or Europe was, but Paris is definitely not a regular refuelling stop for gas.



So, we can all assume you are aircrew or a frequent traveller on CF aircraft then? Since your profile is virtually empty and you gave no real evidence of what you are stating as fact we have no way of knowing where you  are comming from with your statements.


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

The point about the skeleton crew (three communication aides) accompanying Harper is that they were supposedly there to cater to the evacuees in place of a shortage of CF personnel for a full 100 passenger flight:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060720.wharper0719/BNStory/National/home

"And some of those aides, including Ms. Buckler and his press aides Dimitris Soudas and Carolyn Stewart-Olsen will be helping to serve meals on the plane."

As for the refuelling of CF aircraft transiting Europe, well let's just say Paris isn't exactly a top destination for fuel.


----------



## Michael OLeary (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> The point about the skeleton crew (three communication aides) accompanying Harper is that they were supposedly there to cater to the evacuees in place of a shortage of CF personnel for a full 100 passenger flight:
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060720.wharper0719/BNStory/National/home
> 
> ...



That's not presenting your point, that's simply reiterating available info.

So, I ask again: What is YOUR point?  Why are you pursuing this here at ARMY.CA?

You seem pretty persistent for someone who's only even looked at three threads, and likes to describe himself as 'perhaps' cynical.


----------



## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> As for the refuelling of CF aircraft transiting Europe, well let's just say Paris isn't exactly a top destination for fuel.



Oh I see you used the "wink" emoticon. Now I get it, this means you are "in the know" and we all should just take your word for it all is that correct?


----------



## Korus (20 Jul 2006)

Maybe... just maybe... the aircraft wasn't configured for 100 persons? When was the last time you flew on a CF airbus, to throw your own question right back at you. It's possible the seats for the forward sections were in Trenton, with an office-type configuration set up in the front instead.. You know... since it was configured to fly the PM when it left Canada... The airbus I took home from Afghanistan in Feb was configured such that only the rear half of the aircraft actually had seats in it. It's possible.. Just possible... that the media pulled the number "100" out of it's ***, as it often does.

But maybe you're right. We should have left those 63 people behind until better means of transportation could have been arranged.



> As for the refuelling of CF aircraft transiting Europe, well let's just say Paris isn't exactly a top destination for fuel.Wink


Heaven forbid the fact that GINge! just mentioned that he stopped in Paris to refuel on one of his CF flights home


----------



## toddskam (20 Jul 2006)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> You seem pretty persistent for someone who's only even looked at three threads, and likes to describe himself as 'perhaps' cynical.



Jesus, I didn't realize I was being watched here?


----------



## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2006)

.....or maybe toddskam is just a troll, trying to stir the pot. Lot's of baseless accusations, but as Michael stated, no substance. Sounds like typical eurotrash rhetoric. Trolling is against the guidelines, time to change tact if he wants to hang around.


----------



## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

~RoKo~ could be dead on with his point about the aircraft configuration. As I stated earlier there can be up to 192 seats on the CC 150 (in a full pax config) but there are lots of different configs that are used. Indeed the PM's aircraft could very well have been configured quite differently than the full pax version. I don't remember the number of seats in this configuration though since I mainly deal with the combi or pax config, I have only dealt with the PM's aircraft once but didn't go inside it.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2006)

We were configured to carry passengers out of Kabul. There was only 130-150 of us IIRC, and we were crammed in worse than a Air Jazz puddlejumper. Configured as coach seats. Now if the PM's is configured with his secure suite and the press travels in business configuration, that may explain the lack of seating available. Possible?


----------



## Gramps (20 Jul 2006)

recceguy said:
			
		

> We were configured to carry passengers out of Kabul. There was only 130-150 of us IIRC, and we were crammed in worse than a Air Jazz puddlejumper. Configured as coach seats. Now if the PM's is configured with his secure suite and the press travels in business configuration, that may explain the lack of seating available. Possible?


Entirely possible, even probable.


----------



## Fry (20 Jul 2006)

I see nothing wrong here at all. I would also like to know what your point is.

Harper impresses me almost on a daily basis. He's doing good things which is what a leader should do. The reason everyone's tickled pink about what he's doing is because of the bull that we've had to put up with from past individuals in power. I'm very impressed.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (20 Jul 2006)

The "VIP" Airbus has "first class" seating in the front, an office-type suite in the centre, and normal seating in the rear.  It can carry substantially less passengers than a normal passenger aircraft.  IIRC, about sixty people can be carried in the rear compartment.

I've flown on it a couple of times.


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2006)

toddskam said:
			
		

> Jesus, I didn't realize I was being watched here?



Let's just say you have garnered our attention.......You are the Frankfurter in our Brot......You are on the radar......With your proximity to these relevant events, perhaps you could enlighten us as you prepare your morning coffee.  

We'll see you again after dinner.   ;D


----------



## GO!!! (21 Jul 2006)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> The "VIP" Airbus has "first class" seating in the front, an office-type suite in the centre, and normal seating in the rear.  It can carry substantially less passengers than a normal passenger aircraft.  IIRC, about sixty people can be carried in the rear compartment.
> 
> I've flown on it a couple of times.



I've flown on the Airbus configured that way too - your numbers seem about right, and there would have to be crew(s) security pers, etc. As part of a "skeleton crew" as well. 

I think the media is just choked that they were dropped off (and thus out of the loop) to make room for evacuees.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (21 Jul 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I've flown on the Airbus configured that way too - your numbers seem about right, and there would have to be crew(s) security pers, etc. As part of a "skeleton crew" as well.
> 
> I think the media is just choked that they were dropped off (and thus out of the loop) to make room for evacuees.



+1 GO!! Like I said previously, spoiled brats left to spend their own dime, and no story to justify their time off the job.


----------



## 3rd Horseman (21 Jul 2006)

Good Points Gramps, Recceguy, Go, Teddy.

    I guess our new poster Toddskam does not realize that the PM has to also lead and run the country from anywhere in the world thus the office PM configuration of the plane. Many of the crew have not been id as they are the silent guys who assist the PM in running the country. Toddskam shake your head and join the rest of us praising the PM for his show of leadership. Dump your ideas that this was for press or some other issue, just watch his arrival at the airport and he spent nil time with the press on the tarmac, he was short and sweet and did not bath in the lime light that was truely his if he wanted. He just went off after a few words to.......guess what....run the country.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Jul 2006)

Toddskam is a eurotrash troll. The sole purpose of being here is to disrupt threads and the site. It has been dealt with.............yet again.


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## gaspasser (23 Jul 2006)

The PM's 310 was config'd for him and his staff.  = x seating. IF he boots off some non-essentials (say..media) he can make room for some evacuees.  He would not boot off crew as they are the ones who know the emergency proceedures in case of any problems.  The 310 can take about 200+,  but the seats for that are back in Trenton.  As for refuelling in Paris...flight time from Paris to Cyprus + Cyprus passengers + new frieght/baggage = flight time to ??  Paris and not the UK.  The stand by crew may have been in Paris.  Crews can only fly for so long before they are grounded or MUST rest.  Maybe Larnaka does not have the proper Jet A fuel?  yadda..yadda...yadda.
+1 PM Harper for taking the intiative and picking up your countrymen. I think Toddskam should know a bit more about Air Ops before he spouts off about Air Ops.
Poop, and I didn't even vote for the guy.  :-\  He's starting to look like another term.


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