# Gen X recruits vs Gen Y recruits



## jzaidi1 (27 Jun 2008)

Gen X - those born between 1965 to 1979
Gen Y - those born between 1980 to 1990

In my line of business I see boomers, Gen X and Gen Ys all the time.  I find Boomers to be very "salt of the earth", loyal and will do exactly what is asked of them.  Gen X (me) are folks who like partnering with peers, generally want open door management and will do what they are told.  Gen Y folks want guidance, rapid advancement and generally have a sense of entitlement.

Having said the above "general" statements.  What has your experience been with Gen Y recruits vs Gen X recruits?  Do you find differences at a micro/macro level?  I'm not only curious but this has been a challenging issue with civvie organizations for the past couple of years and I'm right in the middle of it.

Thanks,
J


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## evil drunken-fool (27 Jun 2008)

Sounds like you are not getting the results out of the Gen Ys that you want.  I was going to do a big write up on the whole thing but I found the article below and it hit all of my major points.  There is some stuff not applicable to the military but you can weed that out.



> Over the next two decades, 76 million Americans will be retiring and only 46 million will be entering the workplace to replace them, according to the American Society of Training and Development. The vast majority of those 46 million workers will be from Generation Y, also known as the Millennial generation.
> 
> There's been a lot of talk recently about Generation Y. Its members, born between 1982 and 2005, are known for their sense of entitlement, outspokenness, inability to take criticism, and technological sophistication. Fortune deemed Generation Y in its May 28, 2007, issue the most high-maintenance, yet potentially most high-performing generation in history because its members are entering the workplace with more information, greater technological skill and higher expectations of themselves and others than prior generations. In addition, Time described members of Generation Y in its July 16, 2007, issue as wanting the kind of life balance where every minute has meaning. They don't want to be slaves to their jobs the way their Baby Boomer parents are.


http://www.cio.com/article/149053/Management_Techniques_for_Bringing_Out_the_Best_in_Generation_Y/1

For all its worth though, I don't feel the gap between generations is that big.  I think every generation has its sore thumbs that stick out and it seems as though this is where the problem usually comes from.


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## Grando (27 Jun 2008)

I agree with the OP - but I also think the gap started to really change with people born in the mid '80s.

Kids nowadays (generally speaking of course) have little to no regard for authority, rules, or personal integrity.


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## vonGarvin (27 Jun 2008)

I wish I could find the link, but the CBC (radio) had a documentary on this in late May/early June on the varying work ethics of Boomer/X/Millenials ("Y").  I think that their general conclusions were similar to yours.


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## babaganoosh (27 Jun 2008)

Grando said:
			
		

> Kids nowadays (generally speaking of course) have little to no regard for authority, rules, or personal integrity.


 i agree, most kids nowadays are spoiled and only care about themselves.


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## MedTechStudent (27 Jun 2008)

babaganoosh said:
			
		

> i agree, most kids nowadays are spoiled and only care about themselves.



And thats exactly what *your* parents were saying when you were my age.  EDIT:  Umm wait, never mind, you *were* a "kid" 8 years ago...


			
				Grando said:
			
		

> Kids nowadays (generally speaking of course) have little to no regard for authority, rules, or personal integrity.



Agreed, however I think people my age (18) are just too bored now a days, as well as added pressure.  It's harder to do well in school, its harder to get a good job.  I mean back in "the day" or at least my parents day, you were out of school and working by 16.  So at an earlier age you were taught the foundations on being an "adult."  Today, "kids" are allowed to act as such for a longer period of time before joining up with the real world post college at around age 22.  As a result the negative connotations are easier to pick out.

In *my* defense we are not all that way, I kept busy all through my early teen years.  School, soccer, cadets, part time jobs.  Jeez I never had the time to "create trouble for the establishment."  Kids my age are bored, to all parents, *make* them do something constructive, and they just might take a shine to it.


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## Michael OLeary (27 Jun 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Agreed, however I think people my age (18) are just too *bored *now a days, . . .



I think the word you were looking for is jaded.


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## MedTechStudent (27 Jun 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> I think the word you were looking for is jaded.



Yepp, much better word.  I do believe it stems from their (our) lack of motivation to *do* anything.


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## Loachman (27 Jun 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> And thats exactly what *your* parents were saying when you were my age.



Don't stop there.

People have been saying that about newer generations for millenia.

Some things never really change.

Adults forget too easily what they and their friends were like at the same age as those that they criticize.


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## kratz (27 Jun 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Yepp, much better word.  I do believe it stems from their (our) lack of motivation to *do* anything.



Hence the age old advice to "join the military young man. "


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## MedTechStudent (27 Jun 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Don't stop there.
> 
> People have been saying that about newer generations for millenia.
> 
> ...



Exactly


			
				kratz said:
			
		

> Hence the age old advice to "join the military young man. "



Nah that was my idea.  No one in my family has ever even taken a glance at the Military.  So maybe I'l start a trend.


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## RCDtpr (27 Jun 2008)

Problem with a lot of these gen Y people (which I happen to be) isn't all necessarily the kids fault.  Some (not all) has to do with parenting.  Over the years I've seen a lot of parents just give their kids everything and not make them work for it.  This has in turn led a lot of them to be 22, not gone to post secondary, not working, just living off mommy and daddy.  This wouldn't happen if the parents didn't allow it.  When I graduated highschool my father gave me a big hug, then told me I was going to college or joining the army and not freeloading off him anymore  ;D.


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## Blindspot (27 Jun 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> People have been saying that about newer generations for millenia.



"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." 
- Peter the Hermit (1274 CE)

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint." 
- Hesiod (~700 BCE)

"The young are permanently in a state resembling intoxication."
- Aristotle


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## derael (27 Jun 2008)

RCDtpr said:
			
		

> Problem with a lot of these gen Y people (which I happen to be) isn't all necessarily the kids fault.  Some (not all) has to do with parenting.  Over the years I've seen a lot of parents just give their kids everything and not make them work for it.  This has in turn led a lot of them to be 22, not gone to post secondary, not working, just living off mommy and daddy.  This wouldn't happen if the parents didn't allow it.  When I graduated highschool my father gave me a big hug, then told me I was going to college or joining the army and not freeloading off him anymore  ;D.



I'm not going to say that parenting isn't a major factor in how a person develops but at some point I think we need to stop playing the blame game and realise that we are all responsible for our own fate. In my opinion the fundamental  problem is _victim mentality_ within society and especially within my generation. When something goes wrong in their life it's always someone or something else's fault...not theirs.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Jun 2008)

Grando said:
			
		

> I agree with the OP - but I also think the gap started to really change with people born in the mid '80s.
> 
> Kids nowadays (generally speaking of course) have little to no regard for authority, rules, or personal integrity.



Well, that's what every older generation has been saying about the younger generations, isn't it? My experience has been that there are some Gen Yers out there who are pretty useless, and some who are great. The problem with this generation is that there are fewer of them than ever before, so we employers have far less choice nowadays than than in the past, and the employees are calling the shots in their 'sellers' market. 

The solution? Leverage technology and outsourcing to get rid of jobs and turn it back into a market dominated by employer demands, what else? It worked for Japan, which has been suffering from a continual decline in birthrate since the early 1900s, thus forcing them to 'robotize' earlier than other industrial nations.

As Henry Ford said when he was asked why he eliminated jobs in favour of robots: "At least I don't have to deal with the Robots' Union".


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## xo31@711ret (28 Jun 2008)

+1 Loachman. I joined the infantry fresh out of highschool at the age of 17 in 1982 as a naive, snot-nose, know-it-all punk who looked at some of his 'way' older NCO's in their mid to late 30's as decrepit ol' b*stards (little did I understand that some of 'em came up from the states with experience from Vietnam; others from Cyprus 1974 etc,etc,). Now, as a 44 year old snr NCO, I'm sure the 'newbies' look at me the same way.  :crybaby: 'What goes around....'

I look at my 14 and 11 year daughters and sometimes think, WTF are they into?...Then I remember WTF I was into at their age in the 70's.....thank God they (most times) have better sense than I did (though I did have a good time LOL!). Some day (when they're into their 40's) I'll tell them what I was up to when I was their age. But for now, I'll let 'em keep on thinking that their mother & I were tea-drinkin', church-every-sunday, whatevers...


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## davidk (28 Jun 2008)

Nothing has changed. A few generations from now we'll be hearing exactly the same arguments.

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers." -Socrates


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## jzaidi1 (30 Jun 2008)

Wow...thanks for all the responses.  I guess I hit a chord with a few folks.  I'd say history does repeat itself every generation except our industry "experts" believe the Gen Y's are different.  Gen Ys are the first generation in history to be raised by parents that are exponentially more prosperous than the generation before them...leading to children with expectations of instant gratification.  They are the first generation not to have known life before computers.  They are the first generation to live from birth-death in a ecologically conscience society.  They are the first generation to be raised en-mass by single parent families or same sex couples.

I can't remember reading anything about such a huge seismic shift between one generation and the next.  The list goes on and on but see the link and associated articles relating to Gen Y.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Y

J


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## MedTechStudent (30 Jun 2008)

I'm just please to read that everyone agrees that this has been going on for hundreds of years, and multiple generations.

When I'm 40 something I will be saying to my kids, "Oh you kids have it so good now with your I-pod brain implants, back when I was your age we had to plug earphones into our I-Pods.  You whippersnappers with your rocket boots, back when I was your age we had to *drive* to the 711."


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## VM (30 Jun 2008)

There are some generalizations that have been said about this topic throughout the generations. However, there is some truth to what the reports say about Gen Yers. I believe its mostly because of the ever increasing affluent society we are living in. I was born in 84' and i know I had it much easier as a child then my father ever had it; he had it easier than his father. Money changes people, most would agree with that, and with the affluence the generation Yers enjoy it changes the way they view the world. A good example is how easy it now is to not only get into university, but to graduate with a Bacholers degree. There are many students I went to university with who did not work hard enough, and who frankly were not smart enough to recieve a degree....yet they can pay, and thus they ended up recieving that degree (although with pretty bad marks.) 

Now on the flip side, I would argue many of my generation grow up and begin to stop thinking like they are owed everything by the time they are mid 20's. I'm 24 now, and it probably wasn't till around 21 that I started to see that work ethic and respect are whats important.


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## PuckChaser (30 Jun 2008)

kratz said:
			
		

> Hence the age old advice to "join the military young man. "



I got the "flip burgers for the summer, or try out the reserves, either way, start trying to find a summer job". 6 years later, I've got a tour and pondering a CT. Guess the advice works!

What are the kids born after 1990 called? Generation Z?! I've noticed a severe attitude problem with some of these young kids, and a few will be looking to the forces in the next 3-5 years. Then again, the Boomers probably thought all my generation has an attitude problem as well!


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## George Wallace (30 Jun 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> What are the kids born after 1990 called? Generation Z?! I've noticed a severe attitude problem with some of these young kids, and a few will be looking to the forces in the next 3-5 years. Then again, the Boomers probably thought all my generation has an attitude problem as well!



 ;D

Time to do the Math!  They are joining now.


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## evil drunken-fool (30 Jun 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> What are the kids born after 1990 called? Generation Z?! I've noticed a severe attitude problem with some of these young kids, and a few will be looking to the forces in the next 3-5 years. Then again, the Boomers probably thought all my generation has an attitude problem as well!



They are known as the second half of generation Y.


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## vonGarvin (30 Jun 2008)

I've also heard them called "Millenials"


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## kratz (30 Jun 2008)

The disrespect challenges I see my people take at the counter these days is a symptom of the general shift in cultural attitude. When I joined, if a Cpl said it could not be done, then it could not be done. Today, I see members asking to speak to the MS or the PO before they can understand that it is not possible to meet their request.   :


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## FascistLibertarian (30 Jun 2008)

Mods should deleate this! This could cause hatred and contempt of a visible group in Canadian society. Im going to call the HRC's and complain!
 ;D


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## toughenough (30 Jun 2008)

Fireball said:
			
		

> Gen Ys are the first generation in history to be raised by parents that are exponentially more prosperous than the generation before them...leading to children with expectations of instant gratification.  They are the first generation not to have known life before computers.  They are the first generation to live from birth-death in a ecologically conscience society.  They are the first generation to be raised en-mass by single parent families or same sex couples.



This is also the first generation to have their families ripped apart by capitalists. This is the first generation to see, first hand, daddy spend 18 long, loyal, hard years for company X, only to be kicked to the curb with not so much as a handshake. This is the first generation to see the company deem mommy's job redundant, and replace her with a computer program.

This generation is the first to realize that what they do for the company, the company isn't willing to do for them. They question being loyal to the company, when they know the company is going to screw them - and as a result, they are willing to "jump". Most of them also realize that the fastest way to get a promotion/raise is to go next door where buddy makes two bucks an hour more to do the same job. Earlier in this thread someone used the term "seller's market", I think that fits. Young people are now looking out for number one, because they know their boss is.

Sure, in this line of work we (generally) have the luxury of Snr NCO's that will bend over backwards to ensure their troops are taken care of, but we still hear horror stories of the guys in the regs blowing out a knee on ex, going on T-Cat for the duration of their contract, and then not having it renewed.

Yes, sometimes the attitude is for the worse, but they are a product of their environment, and it's Darwinism at it's finest.


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## rmc_wannabe (30 Jun 2008)

I'm one of these "snotty, bratty, no respect for authority" gen y'ers that seem to have had the brush painted on me and let me say I agree with you... to a point. 

Look around and you will see a lot of unmotivated, dependant, "entitled" individuals out there in society. Were there not these kinds of people 20, 40, 400 years ago? Unfortunate to use this as a reference, but wasn't Adolf Hitler, one of the most powerful men in history, an unmotivated art school drop out on the streets of Vienna?

For every vagrant in a generation there are at least 4000 who have some measure of sucess, be that a job, are in school, or have obtained a degree. Out of my graduating class in 2006 there were only 4 people who did not receive their diplomas, and only 10 who were not taking some form of post secondary. 3 of us joined the CF. So 11 out of a graduating class of 84 had no direction outside of highschool. I'm not good with percentages, but thats a relatively small percentage.

As for the "they don't listen, they're unmotivated, they need constant direction, they have no respect" issue, name a group of fresh recruits in any industry at any point in history that came premolded? Experience and age have a way of making some person forget what it is to be brand spanking new and not have the damnedest idea about lessons learned. Mainly because we weren't there to learn the lesson. Teach the lesson and we might be a little drier behind the ears for it.

Whatever the case, I'm a Gen Yer by label, but a soldier none the less. I still get up every morning and shave, do my job well, and go home and have a beer after work. I'm sure many many generations after me will be following the same routine.


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## Gunner98 (2 Jul 2008)

I remember watching a series of movies at a Chapel in Gagetown (not much to do back in the middle 80's in Gagetown on a Sunday night), it was moderated by Leo Buscaglia and one segment was called, "You are what you were when!"  His theory was that between 2-7 years old children adapt or model their personalities after those people around them, which is mostly adults.  In my day those adults had yardsticks, belts, canes, straps and rubber spoons that were draw in absence of appropriate behaviour.  A lot of children from the last 2 decades, during the period between 2-7 are plopped by babysitters or after school daycare providers in front tvs, video games, Ipods and Playstations - where they have free-reign to reek havoc over the characters in their games or watch random acts of violence in movies, sitcoms, cartoons and after school specials (oh, they don't watch those any more!?)  We reap what we sow!


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## jzaidi1 (2 Jul 2008)

I guess we can all agree (despite our generational differences) that we are a product of our upbringing and environment.  I can't lay blame on the Gen Y for turning out the way they are now (there are exceptions of course), that's for sure.  What we can do is raise our current/future children (whom some will no doubt join the CF) to be self-sufficent, street wise and instill a decent work ethic.

This begs the questions for old timers like us - Is the CF better today with the new crop of recruits or was it better say 10, 20 or 30 years ago when troops coming in were expected to be molded into the heirarchial structure without question?  The same question applies to Civvie companies that I deal with and not one of the them can come up with an answer - it's a work in progress.

On a side note - does every parent nowadays drive their kids to school/activities?  The drop-off lineup in the morning at a nearby school is unbelievably long.  I had to walk 1 km each way every day starting from grade one - alone!  I hope we aren't raising wimpy kids, because they'll end up being wimpy soldiers and leaders.

J


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## rmc_wannabe (2 Jul 2008)

Fireball said:
			
		

> I guess we can all agree (despite our generational differences) that we are a product of our upbringing and environment.  I can't lay blame on the Gen Y for turning out the way they are now (there are exceptions of course), that's for sure.  What we can do is raise our current/future children (whom some will no doubt join the CF) to be self-sufficent, street wise and instill a decent work ethic.



Hear hear!



			
				Fireball said:
			
		

> This begs the questions for old timers like us - Is the CF better today with the new crop of recruits or was it better say 10, 20 or 30 years ago when troops coming in were expected to be molded into the heirarchial structure without question?  The same question applies to Civvie companies that I deal with and not one of the them can come up with an answer - it's a work in progress.



I think you'll see a lot of well informed, competent soldiers who are motivated and love doing their job. I think what the main change will be the blind obedience most Snr NCOs are used to. I remember every day in my first week or so I was asking "Who, what, Where, Why , and when" because i wanted to make sure I knew the job in and out and didn't screw it up so someone else had to clean up the mess. Also, I think that so long as members (Gen Y or other) know that what they're doing serves a purpose, and isn't a waste of their time... then everybody's happy.



			
				Fireball said:
			
		

> On a side note - does every parent nowadays drive their kids to school/activities?  The drop-off lineup in the morning at a nearby school is unbelievably long.  I had to walk 1 km each way every day starting from grade one - alone!  I hope we aren't raising wimpy kids, because they'll end up being wimpy soldiers and leaders.



Blame mass media hysteria for that one. Didn't you hear? there are 50 rapists, muggers, serial killers, and kidnappers each within the 3 blocks it takes your kid to walk to school  : Or the dreaded killer bees out to get your children. 
J
[/quote]


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## Gunner98 (3 Jul 2008)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I remember every day in my first week or so I was asking "Who, what, Where, Why , and when" because i wanted to make sure I knew the job in and out and didn't screw it up so someone else had to clean up the mess. Also, I think that so long as members (Gen Y or other) know that what they're doing serves a purpose, and isn't a waste of their time... then everybody's happy.



These are is a symptoms of the newer generations - previous ones were satisfied with the responses, "I told you so. and I ill tell you when the time is right."  You can't know your job in the first week and for the first 3 years you are expected to screw up.  Once you put on the uniform you have nothing but time and it is not your decision to determine if someone is wasting it or to keep you happy.  I loved seing the well-lit sign in front of the drill hall in Cornwallis - "Learn to Serve".  You serve your country and your leaders. 

The listening sentry on the top of the hill in the blazing sun of Zari province, AF is not likely very happy.  Or the lone machine gunner on the right flank of the position watching the patrol hit the road.  The hatches down driver or the air sentry in the LAV or Bison who knows drivers and sentries are most susceptible to IEDs is not very happy either.

The same applies to young officers - in every unit there are shitty little jobs that need to get done that don't bring great rewards - Canteen/Kit Shop officers, Non-public property custodians, Assistant Adjutants, Unit Historians. After 25 years as an Officers I have done all of these things at various ranks.
  
So if you are concerned about someone wasting your time or keeping a smile on your mug then you have a long career ahead of you.


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## rmc_wannabe (3 Jul 2008)

Frostnipped Elf said:
			
		

> These are is a symptoms of the newer generations - previous ones were satisfied with the responses, "I told you so. and I ill tell you when the time is right."  You can't know your job in the first week and for the first 3 years you are expected to screw up.  Once you put on the uniform you have nothing but time and it is not your decision to determine if someone is wasting it or to keep you happy.  I loved seing the well-lit sign in front of the drill hall in Cornwallis - "Learn to Serve".  You serve your country and your leaders.
> 
> *The listening sentry on the top of the hill in the blazing sun of Zari province, AF is not likely very happy.  Or the lone machine gunner on the right flank of the position watching the patrol hit the road.  The hatches down driver or the air sentry in the LAV or Bison who knows drivers and sentries are most susceptible to IEDs is not very happy either.*
> 
> ...



What i highlighted are things that suck balls and no one likes doing, but you know that it serves a purpose, somewhere. re sweeping the parade square for the 4th time that morning because theres no other work for you to do serves no purpose. I do serve the leaders becase thats my duty, but I highly doubt this is something restricted  to my generation. for every $hit tasking in the history of armed warfare there has always been griping. How loud and how frequent its become is a matter of debate.


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