# Question about medals



## Radchris (20 Oct 2011)

Im getting pissed, my Haiti medal and CD are sitting in the RSM's desk for a year now and the COC keeps saying they are waiting for a parade sometime in the future. 
Anything I can do?


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## Jimmy_D (20 Oct 2011)

Most medals have to be presented to you by a Col or higher. So take the time to wait it out. You aleady know your going to recieve it, and when you do then your gonna have to go and get them mounted which takes time as well. Just better to wait it out.


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Oct 2011)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> Most medals have to be presented to you by a Col or higher.



Where did you get this?


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## Gramps (20 Oct 2011)

I have seen many presented by a Major.


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## aesop081 (20 Oct 2011)

Radchris said:
			
		

> Anything I can do?



Yes. Wait.


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## X Royal (20 Oct 2011)

A month & I can see "just wait".
But a year is pure BS.
When the COC fails to take care of the troops, how can they be amazed with disgruntled troops.
In my opinion any RSM worth anything would never let this happen.


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## Rifleman62 (20 Oct 2011)

I received my CD third clasp in the mail from Brigade (across the city). I was somewhat pissed.

I have also seen many presented by a Major (CO).


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## Zoomie (20 Oct 2011)

Just write a memo - state that you are more than Ok with your current CO presenting the medals to you.  It might provide to impetus to get them off their asses.


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

...emphasizing the extremely limited time to get them mounted before Nov 11.


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## dangerboy (20 Oct 2011)

I was in the same boat you are in, my clasp to my CD was sitting on the RSM's desk for 10 months.  They were waiting for a proper occasion to present it to me, you can talk to your CSM but must likely you will end up waiting.  I would think that they are waiting till the Mens Christmas Dinner.  I don't agree with it but that would be my guess.


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## Pusser (20 Oct 2011)

The only real guideline on the presentation of medals is that it should be *timely* and dignified.  It is perfectly acceptable to wait for a parade that is coming up, but to wait indefinitely for an as yet unplanned parade is unacceptable.  In short, delaying a presentation by weeks for something is OK, but delaying for months without a plan is not.

Perhaps a memo through the Chain of Command asking to have it presented is in order?


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## PuckChaser (20 Oct 2011)

My unit has over 35 rotation bars in the RSM desk (he must have a big drawer just for them), I'm hoping mine gets done after that massive parade as I'm deploying. Some arrived before the summer.


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## aesop081 (20 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> but delaying for months without a plan is not.



Because, from the OP original post alone, we can safely assume there is no plan, right ?


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## Pusser (20 Oct 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Because, from the OP original post alone, we can safely assume there is no plan, right ?



It shouldn't take a year to develop and execute a plan to present a medal.  It can be done in the CO's office.  When I was in a position to deal with this sort of thing, I normally had a the medal presented within two weeks of its delivery to my section.


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## aesop081 (20 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> It shouldn't take a year to develop and execute a plan to present a medal.



You are correct, of course. That being said, the unit CO, as far as i know, can do it when he sees fit. To assume there is no plan simply because a guy comes on here to complain he hasn't got his medals yet is, IMHO, a bit hasty.


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## X Royal (20 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> It shouldn't take a year to develop and execute a plan to present a medal.  It can be done in the CO's office.  When I was in a position to deal with this sort of thing, I normally had a the medal presented within two weeks of its delivery to my section.


My previous point exactly. Although I might give a little slack on the two weeks time line.


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## X Royal (20 Oct 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You are correct, of course. That being said, the unit CO, as far as i know, can do it when he sees fit. To assume there is no plan simply because a guy comes on here to complain he hasn't got his medals yet is, IMHO, a bit hasty.


If the CO elects to take a year, I feel he is the one who's not fit & the CWO who lets him get away with it isn't either.


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## jollyjacktar (20 Oct 2011)

I was lucky to have my Swain at the time slip me my CD1 across to me, no muss, no fuss.  Perfect.  Sadly he said he could not do the same for the GCS that also was sitting there too.  I had to do the dog and pony for that one.


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

As with jollyjacktar, both my CD and, subsequently, the clasp were just thrown into my office mail slot. I was perfectly OK with that, and at this point, I suspect that the original poster may be as well. In my case, it was because I was in a unit that wasn't big on parade square pomp & circumstance; for the OP, I suspect it's because of the dubious "know your troops and promote their well-being" of the CO/RSM in question.

All of my deployment medals (which I actually value) involved "parades," in-theatre, of no more than 2-3 of us standing before the CO or some other 'dignitary.' The aim was met in an effective manner, no rocks were painted, and I've always managed to look suitably pretty in time for Remembrance Day.


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## Sig_Des (20 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> and I've always managed to look suitably pretty in time for Remembrance Day.



Dressed up, maybe, but I don't know if I'd ever use..."pretty"


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Dressed up, maybe, but I don't know if I'd ever use..."pretty"


Harsh.....just harsh.   :'(


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## X Royal (20 Oct 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Dressed up, maybe, but I don't know if I'd ever use..."pretty"


Agreed but when I served I'm sure "pretty" was never applied to me (and still isn't) and would have been a sure knife in the heart of any I served with. (OK I should have said " almost all that I've served with).


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## Danjanou (20 Oct 2011)

Hmmm As I remember one showed up via Canada Post after I released, one received on parade from CO (RSM called me at home as I was on leave and more or less implied that I really should come in for that parade), one tossed at me by the CC in the BOR as I was wandering through.  That seems about right. :


Oh yeah "Pretty" and "JM"are two words that should never appear in the same sentence. :whiteflag:


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## dapaterson (20 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Oh yeah "Pretty" and "JM"are two words that should never appear in the same sentence. :whiteflag:



Bah.  How about "The barmaid serving Journeyman his third beer* is pretty."?


(*Third since it's only 12:22 local right now...)


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

There's never a Mod around when you need one.


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## Danjanou (20 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> There's never a Mod around when you need one.



Hey I'm off duty 8)


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Hey I'm off duty 8)


Actually, I was implying one of the _good_ Mods.


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## OldSolduer (20 Oct 2011)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> Most medals have to be presented to you by a Col or higher. So take the time to wait it out. You aleady know your going to recieve it, and when you do then your gonna have to go and get them mounted which takes time as well. Just better to wait it out.



Pure baloney. 

The Sacrifice Medal is presented by Colonels or higher by order of the CDS in Dec 09.


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## HItorMiss (20 Oct 2011)

All my medals have been on a dog and pony sadly....

I still stand by just mail them to me. I'll be honest I don't really care about any of them. I know what I did and where I was not really a flashy bling guy (any more  ).

As for the OP I agree a memo is in order addressed to the CO.


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## Rifleman62 (20 Oct 2011)

You can wear undress ribbons as soon as you are eligible.

I can see this RSM jacking you up on it. Reply could be the the medals are collecting dusk on your desk sir.


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## Eowyn (20 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> The Sacrifice Medal is presented by Colonels or higher by order of the CDS in Dec 09.



... For fallen members.  For injured members the Sacrifice Medal can be presented by their unit CO.


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## OldSolduer (20 Oct 2011)

Eowyn said:
			
		

> ... For fallen members.  For injured members the Sacrifice Medal can be presented by their unit CO.



I beg to differ. The CANFORGEN states that General Officers/Flag Officers and Colonels by exception only. 

Your unit is in violation of an order from the CDS.

CANFORGEN 206/09 CDS 027/09 011327Z DEC 09
SACRIFICE MEDAL - CEREMONIAL EVENTS
UNCLASSIFIED



THE INAUGURAL CEREMONY OF 09 NOV 09 AT RIDEAU HALL HOSTED BY HER EXCELLENCY GG WAS A FITTING WAY TO PAY TRIBUTE TO THE SACRIFICES OF OUR MEN AND WOMEN FOR THEIR WOUNDS SUSTAINED AND FOR THE FAMILLIES OF THE FALLEN 


THOUGH 46 SACRIFICE MEDALS WERE PRESENTED AT THIS CEREMONY THERE REMAINS ANOTHER 468 WHICH HAVE BEEN AUTHORISED AND DISTRIBUTED TO RESPECTIVE COMMANDS 


I DIRECT THAT EC S AND CC S ARE TO ENSURE THAT PROPER CEREMONY AND PROTOCOL ARE EXERCISED TO PRESENT SACRIFICE MEDALS WITHIN THEIR RESPECTIVE COC. MY INTENT IS FOR THIS MEDAL TO BE PRESENTED BY AN OFFICER AT THE GO/FO LEVEL, AND BY EXCEPTION ONLY BY CAPT(N)/COL 


RECIPIENTS ALONG WITH THEIR FAMILLIES AND FAMILLIES OR THE FALLEN SHOULD BE GIVEN THIS DIGNITY


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## Eowyn (20 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I beg to differ. The CANFORGEN states that General Officers/Flag Officers and Colonels by exception only.
> 
> Your unit is in violation of an order from the CDS.
> 
> ...



I may have misunderstood.  I have only dealt with the presentation to the family of a fallen member.  Thanks for the correction.


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## OldSolduer (20 Oct 2011)

No problem. Glad to help!!

Cheers!!


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## jollyjacktar (20 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> As with jollyjacktar, both my CD and, subsequently, the clasp were just thrown into my office mail slot. I was perfectly OK with that, and at this point, I suspect that the original poster may be as well.
> 
> All of my deployment medals (which I actually value) involved "parades," in-theatre, of no more than 2-3 of us standing before the CO or some other 'dignitary.' The aim was met in an effective manner, no rocks were painted, and I've always managed to look suitably pretty in time for Remembrance Day.



Actually the Swain was a great guy and I easily talked him into slipping me the first one across the counter with the provisio to keep stumm.  He said he could not do so with the second one as it was an important one (at that time it was rare for a sailor to get the GCS in the fleet).  It does means a great deal to me as well as it (GCS) and it's bar was earned on the ground.  However, I hate a fuss being made with regards to me and I would have been even more pleased to just take it and run as well.  I don't want the public recognition that comes with being on parade to receive promotions and medals, getting it via the back door or mail is perfect.  Sadly for me, the CoC don't see it that way and want it otherwise.


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## Haggis (20 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> The only real guideline on the presentation of medals is that it should be *timely* and dignified.  It is perfectly acceptable to wait for a parade that is coming up, but to wait indefinitely for an as yet unplanned parade is unacceptable.  In short, delaying a presentation by weeks for something is OK, but delaying for months without a plan is not.



I have been witness to a delay of many months waiting for "an appropriate event" at which to present a medal.  In the meantime, sadly, the recipient was killed in an accident.

No time like the present.


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## Danjanou (20 Oct 2011)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> You can wear undress ribbons as soon as you are eligible.
> 
> I can see this RSM jacking you up on it. Reply could be the the medals are collecting dusk on your desk sir.



I know a lot of guys myself included who would pay to see that little exchange.


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## Pusser (20 Oct 2011)

Haggis said:
			
		

> I have been witness to a delay of many months waiting for "an appropriate event" at which to present a medal.  In the meantime, sadly, the recipient was killed in an accident.
> 
> No time like the present.



I bet that made a few people feel like schmucks, especially if they had to go to the family to ask for the member's other medals, so they could get them all mounted together for the funeral.  Was the member's funeral an appropriate enough occasion to present the medal?

Sometimes timeliness is the most important thing of all.


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## MARS (20 Oct 2011)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> You can wear undress ribbons as soon as you are eligible.



Is there a ref for this, by any chance?  My entire Ship's Company is waiting for our medals to trickle in - we are being told the timeline is 12-18 months.  

Would be nice to get my sailors their ribbon though...


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## Rifleman62 (20 Oct 2011)

Did a search of the two pubs you would think it was in plus other refs. Nothing.

It was the practice to wear the undress ribbon when an award was gazetted (announced)  prior to the investiture which was to be held at a later date.

Note; Modified to correct terminology: gazetted/announced.


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## Old Sweat (20 Oct 2011)

It is my understanding that once the medal is gazetted, the recipients can wear the ribbon before the medal is actually presented.


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## HItorMiss (20 Oct 2011)

I was told when I was awarded a Medal and had to await the ceremony, that as soon as it appears on the MPRR you are entitled to wear the ribbon.


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> > ...once the medal is gazetted, the recipients can wear the ribbon...
> 
> 
> ...as soon as it appears on the MPRR you are entitled to wear the ribbon.


The modern, electronic, version of gazetting.


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## Sig_Des (20 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The modern, electronic, version of gazetting.



Extra, Extra, read all about it! PeopleSoft has finally been updated with your personal details!


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## FlyingDutchman (20 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I know a lot of guys myself included who would pay to see that little exchange.


I will bring the popcorn.


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Extra, Extra, read all about it! PeopleSoft has finally been updated with your personal details!


   :facepalm:

_~ahem~_   ".....For some governments, publishing information in a gazette was, or is, a legal necessity by which official documents came into force and entered the public domain. In English, the transitive verb, _to gazette_, means 'to announce or publish in a gazette' -- especially where gazette refers to such a public journal or a newspaper of record." [Stolen from no-less autoritative a site than Wikipedia!  :nod: ]


Man, why do I feel like every post is a recruiting thread post? Is there a full moon?   :


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## Sig_Des (20 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Man, why do I feel like every post is a recruiting thread post? Is there a full moon?   :[/size]



Maybe it's just your day?

As far as the argument of sacrifice medals and GO's presenting them, Don't know the background, but I have been on parade where a member has received said medal from a LCol. Don't know if the member had already received it, and was presented it again for the benefit of the unit, but it has been done.

I was lucky. Got my GCS in the field, and the bar in an office. Less pomp and circ the better.


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## Journeyman (20 Oct 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Got my GCS in the field, and the bar in an office. Less pomp and circ the better.


My turn -- maybe they've just seen you march?   :nana:


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## Sig_Des (20 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> My turn -- maybe they've just seen you march?   :nana:



LOL. See! If you don't want to do something, just be bad at it!


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## ModlrMike (20 Oct 2011)

Accepting that we only have one side of the story, it's still reasonable to think that 10 months is sufficient time to plan a parade.


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## OldSolduer (20 Oct 2011)

Radchris said:
			
		

> Im getting pissed, my Haiti medal and CD are sitting in the RSM's desk for a year now and the COC keeps saying they are waiting for a parade sometime in the future.
> Anything I can do?



I have no suggestions, however CoC COULD  plan a parade oh.....lets say weekly...to present things like medals, promotions, awards etc.

Niner can order a parade anytime he/she wants.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I have no suggestions, however CoC COULD  plan a parade oh.....lets say weekly...to present things like medals, promotions, awards etc.
> 
> Niner can order a parade anytime he/she wants.



Yup. I'm thinking 15:45 (every\ any) Friday would work!  ;D


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## Journeyman (21 Oct 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Yup. I'm thinking 15:45 (every\ any) Friday would work!  ;D


You are _such_ a Sergeant-Major.   :nod:


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## Jimmy_D (21 Oct 2011)

Recceguy and Jim, thanks that is my bad. I was wrong about the Col or higher. I was told that by my CoC when i got my SM, and the way that they described it seemed as if it were for all medals. 

Again my apologies for the incorrect info.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Oct 2011)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> Recceguy and Jim, thanks that is my bad. I was wrong about the Col or higher. I was told that by my CoC when i got my SM, and the way that they described it seemed as if it were for all medals.
> 
> Again my apologies for the incorrect info.



No sweat


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## OldSolduer (21 Oct 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> No sweat



No big deal.   Its all good!! 



			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> You are _such_ a Sergeant-Major.   :nod:



Yes I suppose I am too.


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## Rifleman62 (21 Oct 2011)

The practice of publishing awards does continue in the Canada Gazette. A national award, i.e. OC, ORMM or Bravery Award is Gazetted.


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## OldSolduer (21 Oct 2011)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> The practice of publishing awards does continue in the Canada Gazette. A national award, i.e. OC, ORMM or Bravery Award is Gazetted.



Once the award is gazetted, you may use the post nominals Ie ie MB 
You may wear the ribbon with DEU but not the medal as the GG has to present the MB.


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## Pusser (21 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Once the award is gazetted, you may use the post nominals Ie ie MB
> You may wear the ribbon with DEU but not the medal as the GG has to present the MB.



Actually, you can use the post-nominals as soon as you are informed (the letter from the GG's office tells you that).  Gazetting doesn't necessarily happen at the same time.  In fact, sometimes decorations are not even gazetted until after the insignia has been presented.


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## Danjanou (21 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Actually, you can use the post-nominals as soon as you are informed for (the letter from the GG's office tells you that).  Gazetting doesn't necessarily happen at the same time.  In fact, sometimes decorations are not even gazetted until after the insignia has been presented.



As Sgt Major Seggie is a "Sgt Major" and therefore automatically an SME in dress and deportment I'd go with him on this, especially in this case considering the post nominals he's entitled to. :2c:


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## OldSolduer (21 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> As Sgt Major Seggie is a "Sgt Major" and therefore automatically an SME in dress and deportment I'd go with him on this, especially in this case considering the post nominals he's entitled to. :2c:



thanks but Pusser is right. Got me on that one!

HOWEVER....do you know that the award of a medal for valour or bravery is to be entered on your Conduct Sheet?


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## Rifleman62 (21 Oct 2011)

Same with ORMM.

It is conduct after all!


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## Old Sweat (21 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> HOWEVER....do you know that the award of a medal for valour or bravery is to be entered on your Conduct Sheet?



I knew a MWO who took pride in the two entries on his conduct sheet - a severe reprimand and  a military medal.


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## Pusser (21 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> thanks but Pusser is right. Got me on that one!



It's been known to happen.  ;D


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## CountDC (21 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> thanks but Pusser is right. Got me on that one!



Had to go back and read that 3 times just to make sure I read it right.


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