# RCAF Leather Jacket (merged discussion and mocking)



## dimsum (5 Dec 2013)

Caught this on Combat Camera; is Comd RCAF wearing the "CANEX" leather jacket that I've heard rumours of?

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_eng.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=61389&site=combatcamera


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## The Bread Guy (5 Dec 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Caught this on Combat Camera; is Comd RCAF wearing the "CANEX" leather jacket that I've heard rumours of?
> 
> http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_eng.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=61389&site=combatcamera


If so, nice to see the front-liners getting new kit first.  Oh, wait ....


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## cupper (5 Dec 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> If so, nice to see the front-liners getting new kit first.  Oh, wait ....



No, you were right, he is after all on the front lines of the PR and Bureaucratic wars.


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## Fishbone Jones (5 Dec 2013)

Looks like vinyl. 8)


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## Shamrock (5 Dec 2013)

I like how the rank is right next to his first name.


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## q_1966 (5 Dec 2013)

Should be brown with fur/fake fur collar, then I would give a thumbs up.

Post edited*


			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> Looks like vinyl. 8)


Pleather  

I prefer something a little more classic, just cant afford it.
http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=106

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/products.php?cat=militaryjackets&sub=raf


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## cupper (6 Dec 2013)

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> Should be brown with fur/fake fur collar, then I would give a thumbs up.



Sheepskin lining. :nod:


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## dimsum (6 Dec 2013)

At least it answers the question whether we will be able to wear it with operational clothing instead of just DEUs   >

Get a few more velcro bits for Sqn, airframe and other patches, and it's good to go.


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## Towards_the_gap (6 Dec 2013)

You can just tell by looking at the photo that he has the theme song to 'Top Gun' playing in his head as he strolls along.

Ya know... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2M7QwHnVXQ


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## Lightguns (6 Dec 2013)

That not vinyl, it's naugahyde.  This means that the nauga is not extinct.  This is very great news.  It was rumoured that the great nauga kill off during the recovering of the CFB Gagetown Officers Mess furniture in '97 had lead to the extinction of the nauga.  Great news indeed that the CF will be able to continue harvesting naugas.  I think naugas are the key to great CF boot shortage; nauga boots for everyone.  We could help out our poorer provinces by setting up nauga farms if the demand is there!


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## Bluebulldog (6 Dec 2013)

All I could think of was.....


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## The Bread Guy (6 Dec 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> You can just tell by looking at the photo that he has the theme song to 'Top Gun' playing in his head as he strolls along.
> 
> Ya know... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2M7QwHnVXQ


_Still_ not as cool as Maverick  ;D


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## Loachman (6 Dec 2013)

It needs to be in CADPAT like the combat gloves.


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## Lightguns (6 Dec 2013)

Loachman said:
			
		

> It needs to be in CADPAT like the combat gloves.



Do and every Army general will be running around in the field with one on!!!!!  And a pearl handle S&W besides!!!!


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## 4Feathers (6 Dec 2013)

I  can see them now getting dusty on the racks at CANEX like the new windbreaker no one is buying for $99.00. Perhaps when they are marked down to 95% off I might get one for someone I don't like as a gift.


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Dec 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> If so, nice to see the front-liners getting new kit first.  Oh, wait ....



It isn't an issued item.


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Dec 2013)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> It isn't an issued item.



But is available to everyone yet?



			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> If so, nice to see the front-liners getting new kit first.  Oh, wait ....



If not, it fits the comment.


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Dec 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> But is available to everyone yet?
> 
> If not, it fits the comment.



No idea.  Regardless, it is not an issued item so if the CAS purchased it out of pocket...who cares?  He got his new mess kit before I was able to buy mine.  I didn't need a _Hurt Feelings Report_.

I guess it's a good thing anyone, such as the CA Comd or RSM, wouldn't wear things not all the troops have.  I bet those slip-ons aren't "CANEX purchased".


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Dec 2013)

Mike from Canmore gets all his stuff from the CBC and Air Farce.


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## Transporter (6 Dec 2013)

I have no issue with Comd RCAF wearing it "first". My issue with it is that it is f****** ugly. Who designs this stuff? Do they intentionally make it look like s***? I could probably go to Danier leather or surf eBay and get something that looks better/more air force flying jacket like than that.


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Dec 2013)

Transporter said:
			
		

> I have no issue with Comd RCAF wearing it "first". My issue with it is that it is f****** ugly. Who designs this stuff? Do they intentionally make it look like s***? I could probably go to Danier leather or surf eBay and get something that looks better/more air force flying jacket like than that.



More Air Force looking leather?

Why didn't you say so!

 ;D


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Dec 2013)

I had no idea our new PT gear was ready already.  awesome.


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## Transporter (6 Dec 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> More Air Force looking leather?
> 
> Why didn't you say so!
> 
> ;D


 Well, I believe my exact words were "more Air Force flying jacket like" not "more Air Force looking leather"... I believe the Dwyer Hill boys might be interested in the outfit in your photo however ;D


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Dec 2013)

Transporter said:
			
		

> Well, I believe my exact words were "more Air Force flying jacket like" not "more Air Force looking leather"... I believe the Dwyer Hill boys might be interested in the outfit in your photo however ;D




Ooooo. Hear that quiet knock on your door yet? ;D


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## Transporter (6 Dec 2013)

Santa?


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## The Bread Guy (6 Dec 2013)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> It isn't an issued item.


If everyone can get it, I humbly stand corrected, and continue to happily read everyone's sartorial assessment of the newest addition to the RCAF "Can't Get Ya New Fighters, so We'll Get Ya New Leather"® line of outerwear  ;D



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I bet those slip-ons aren't "CANEX purchased".


Agreed.

Has the shiny-shiny rank been issued yet to those below this guy (I ask because I honestly don't know)?  If so, buy as many slip-ons as you like.  

If not, I'm old fashioned enough to think he shouldn't be the first to get 'em if most of the troops still don't have 'em.


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## CombatDoc (6 Dec 2013)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Do and every Army general will be running around in the field with one on!!!!!  And a pearl handle S&W besides!!!!


"They're ivory! Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whore house would carry a pearl-handled revolver."


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## PuckChaser (6 Dec 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> If not, I'm old fashioned enough to think he shouldn't be the first to get 'em if most of the troops still don't have 'em.



I've only seen GOFOs with them so far, and Command CWOs.


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## Furniture (7 Dec 2013)

I bumped into a WO with the new name tapes last week on a course in Esquimalt of all places. I imagine the issue of new slip ons will follow some cryptic and arcane pattern only known to Sup Techs and Baal, or whatever heathen god they believe in.

All hail the All Father, Odin Spear Shaker!


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## The Bread Guy (7 Dec 2013)

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> I imagine the issue of new slip ons will follow some cryptic and arcane pattern only known to Sup Techs and Baal, or whatever heathen god they believe in.
> 
> All hail the All Father, Odin Spear Shaker!


Good point!


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## jpjohnsn (7 Dec 2013)

I guess I don’t see the issue in complete black and white.  If it was operational clothing or equipment, I’d totally be on board with the notion that kitting needs to go from the pointy end on back.  But things like mess dress and leather jackets aren’t worn operationally.  For buttons and bows-type stuff, I think that sometimes the leadership/change needs to be demonstrated from the top down – especially if it is the result of someone’s “bright idea”.  And in that vein, the most common reaction to “bright ideas” I’ve seen is something along the line of *‘if it’s such a great idea, how ‘bout you go first’*.  

Take the white insignia:  Once you get past the idea of it being a waste of money, most people seem to think it’s not in the least bit needed.  But the decision having been made, I think it’s up to the people at the top end to take the lead and put it on.

Probably the best leadership I’ve seen on this type of thing actually came from an air cadet.  The decision was recently made to replace the metal hat badge with a woven one.  It was an amazingly unpopular decision as, for some reason, cadets seem to have placed some kind of mystic significance to the badge being metal (what they mistakenly believed to be brass despite it being made of gold painted white metal since the 1970s).  When the first cloth badges started showing up at the squadron, the CO took the WO1 aside to try and come up with a plan to deal with the inevitable resistance to change.  The WO1 basically said, “I got it, sir”; went to supply and grabbed a bunch of the new badges; and gathered the WO2s together and said, we’re all going to have these sewn on for next week.  Once the cadets saw that all the warrant officers were wearing the new badge, there wasn’t a whole lot of grumbling after that.   If a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds can figure that out…

Now, that being said, I’m not sure I like the idea of wearing the new stuff on a regular basis for months and months before anyone else gets an opportunity to get the stuff.  I saw new RCAF mess dress worn a LONG time before the CANAIRGEN introducing it was even sent out.  There’s leading the charge and then there’s getting ahead of yourself.  It’s surrendering to the LCF a bit too much for my taste.


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## dimsum (21 Mar 2014)

Well, the attached CANEX ad has made the FB rounds (and has been roundly mocked by most people I know.)  

Two questions:

1.  Where are we supposed to get metal rank insignia?  In a pinch the NCMs could use the Army ones, but there are no Officer ranks in metal.
2.  Why are they now combining the wings and name into one tag?  Not that I think it's necessarily a bad thing.

I'm also willing to bet money that within a week of these things being available, someone will add extra velcro à la "normal" flying jacket, somehow thrown slip-ons on it, and wear it on an aircraft.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Well, the attached CANEX ad has made the FB rounds (and has been roundly mocked by most people I know.)
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> ...



Metal rank badges  Given the fixation with FOD, I'm now assuming this is just a "I'm Tom Cruise" high speed, low drag jacket. The whole purpose of which is to give a nod and a wink to the girls and drive Sergeants Majors up the wall, and not any sort of operational gear that will be allowed within 300 ft of the flight line?. Have I got that about right?  :


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## Loachman (21 Mar 2014)

I'll buy one when they come out in CADPAT.


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## George Wallace (21 Mar 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I'll buy one when they come out in CADPAT.



Naaa!  Black goes better on civvie street.  You don't want to be mistaken for someone off Duck Dynesty.


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## Transporter (21 Mar 2014)

Holy holy F***! I've seen it all now. Not necessarily a bad idea, just atrocious execution.


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## Poppa (21 Mar 2014)

Seeing that poster I no longer feel bad about my haircut/burns


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Mar 2014)

$400  :-X

Add NS taxes, that's what...$1097 and change?   >


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## dimsum (21 Mar 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Naaa!  Black goes better on civvie street.  You don't want to be mistaken for someone off Duck Dynesty.



Apparently, from a friend who's seen it, it's not black.  It's dark brown (with crappy lighting in the photo).  

Seriously though, $400 (even $349.99)?  USAF/RAAF jackets are about $250 - we are getting fleeced.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Apparently, from a friend who's seen it, it's not black.  It's dark brown (with crappy lighting in the photo).
> 
> Seriously though, $400 (even $349.99)?  USAF/RAAF jackets are about $250 - we are getting fleeced.



Speaking of which, is this thing even remotely lined for cold weather? Or is it meant to be worn around the pool table in the Squadron hut\ bar while regaling the peers of the latest encounter with a Fokker Dr.I Dreidecker, a la one flat hand following the other in an intricate dance worthy of the Mikado. 8)


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## Zoomie (21 Mar 2014)

It's not considered operational gear.  So really it will be for those chilly spring/fall days where you want to wear something else from your car to the office.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Mar 2014)

Ditch said:
			
		

> It's not considered operational gear.  So really it will be for those chilly spring/fall days where you want to wear something else from your car to the office.



Can't get the driver to drop you closer to the door?!!! :rofl:


C,mon, I kid! You opened the door, someone had to walk through :-*


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## ballz (21 Mar 2014)

I'm not a dress & deportment kind of person, but really... coveralls and a leather jacket?  :boke:

And somehow the Army is torn up about people wearing a toque without gloves on cause somehow that looks more ridiculous than coveralls with a leather jacket? :


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## Transporter (22 Mar 2014)

ballz said:
			
		

> I'm not a dress & deportment kind of person, but really... coveralls and a leather jacket?  :boke:
> 
> And somehow the Army is torn up about people wearing a toque without gloves on cause somehow that looks more ridiculous than coveralls with a leather jacket? :



I somehow think (or at least I would like to think) that you really do know that what you are calling "coveralls" really is a flight suit, and that Air Forces worldwide have been wearing flight suits and leather flying jackets for awhile now. The modern day RCAF didn't just dream it up. And as for the Army and its toque with/without gloves dilemma, what happens if you introduce the raincoat into the equation, especially if it isn't raining? Do heads explode altogether?


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## dapaterson (22 Mar 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> Do heads explode altogether?



No, that would only happen to RSMs if the Army issued two different kinds of boots for soldiers to choose from.


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## ballz (22 Mar 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> I somehow think (or at least I would like to think) that you really do know that what you are calling "coveralls" really is a flight suit, and that Air Forces worldwide have been wearing flight suits and leather flying jackets for awhile now.



I do realize its a "flight suit," which to me is just a set of coveralls (call it what you want), I did not realize that this combo is a world-wide Air Force thing. Most of our attire and what we consider "professional" comes from civilian world in some sense. Clean-shaven, clean haircuts, etc,  our DEUs look a lot like a business suit, our mess kit a tuxedo, etc, etc. So I get all that... I don't really see any occupation wear a flight suit / coveralls with a leather jacket, and as you may understand most civilian pilots (aka Air Canada / WestJet) I see are wearing something similar to a business suits / DEUs



			
				Transporter said:
			
		

> And as for the Army and its toque with/without gloves dilemma, what happens if you introduce the raincoat into the equation, especially if it isn't raining? Do heads explode altogether?



Last winter at a certain point everyone at my battalion was told they couldn't wear a raincoat anymore because now that it was snowing it was "too cold" for raincoats. Then of course, in February it went up to -5 and rained cats and dogs and everyone was wearing Goretex combat jacket, toques, and mittens. :not-again:

This year they didn't come with the madness of dictating which jacket you would wear from December - March, but I am sure they will again next winter :facepalm:



			
				dapaterson said:
			
		

> No, that would only happen to RSMs if the Army issued two different kinds of boots for soldiers to choose from.



Normally I'd say "can't wait to see this..." but lately I'm losing my sense of humour about this stuff.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Mar 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> I somehow think (or at least I would like to think) that you really do know that what you are calling "coveralls" really is a flight suit, and that Air Forces worldwide have been wearing flight suits and leather flying jackets for awhile now. The modern day RCAF didn't just dream it up. And as for the Army and its toque with/without gloves dilemma, what happens if you introduce the raincoat into the equation, especially if it isn't raining? Do heads explode altogether?



Let's stay on track. We're not talking about toques and raincoats. 

We're talking about a leather flying jacket.


It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure my flight suit label said something like 'Coveralls, Flying, Yada yada'. Could be wrong though.

But this is not a 'flying jacket' is it? It's simply a cool factor accoutrement. What function does it serve that's not already done by what is currently issued? It's nothing more than a 'look at me' piece of clothing. Kind of like Lady GaGa does. 

Yes they did


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## George Wallace (22 Mar 2014)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Let's stay on track. We're not talking about toques and raincoats.
> 
> We're talking about a leather flying jacket.
> 
> ...



LOL!

Ah!  Yes.  The ole "coverall" discussion can be found at:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98838.0


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## Transporter (22 Mar 2014)

It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure my flight suit label said something like 'Coveralls, Flying, Yada yada'. Could be wrong though.

But this is not a 'flying jacket' is it? It's simply a cool factor accoutrement. What function does it serve that's not already done by what is currently issued? It's nothing more than a 'look at me' piece of clothing. Kind of like Lady GaGa does. 

Yes they did 
[/quote]

I disagree. Though poorly executed, I don't see it as being any different than the other services reintroducing vestiges of their past over the years, like "look at me" mess kits or the Navy curl and Army pips/crowns, for example. What was wrong with the old CF standard mess kits and rank designators? 

That said, I shan't be buying one because I think they're fugly. But, to each their own.


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## dimsum (22 Mar 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> I disagree. Though poorly executed, I don't see it as being any different than the other services reintroducing vestiges of their past over the years, like "look at me" mess kits or the Navy curl and Army pips/crowns, for example. What was wrong with the old CF standard mess kits and rank designators?
> 
> That said, I shan't be buying one because I think they're fugly. But, to each their own.



If the jacket wasn't $400 or more, since the USAF and others manage to have jackets sell to the public for $250, and if it didn't *seem* like the design was just plucked out of a Sears catalog vice a recognizable "flying jacket" pattern*, I would guess that more people would buy them and less would be grumbling about cost or fugliness.  

I mean c'mon:  If the Australians, who aren't known for manufacturing things inexpensively, can sell their version of the USAF jacket for $250, why can't we?  Last time I was in KAF, I half-joked about getting the guy on the boardwalk to make those jackets for $100 and selling them for $150 

 :2c:

* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




USAF

* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



USN


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## ballz (22 Mar 2014)

None of those pics are they wearing their leather jacket over their coveralls? And coincidentally they do not look like vomit.


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## Tibbson (22 Mar 2014)

These jackets look like they are made from the same material our Mat Techs used to use to recover the old clunky arm chairs we had in the 80s.

They really are ugly jackets, but I bet they were made in Canada at least.  

Last time I deployed I was issued a green top loader kit bag that had "US" stenciled in black on the side.  Never seen them issued before and hope to never see them again since they were pretty much useless BUT if we can get kit bags in a pinch why not just arrange to get suitable quantities of these jackets sent in.  No point in reinventing the wheel, especially when this is what we end up with.


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Mar 2014)

ballz said:
			
		

> I do realize its a "flight suit," which to me is just a set of coveralls (call it what you want), I did not realize that this combo is a world-wide Air Force thing. Most of our attire and what we consider "professional" comes from civilian world in some sense. Clean-shaven, clean haircuts, etc,  our DEUs look a lot like a business suit, our mess kit a tuxedo, etc, etc. So I get all that... I don't really see any occupation wear a flight suit / coveralls with a leather jacket, and as you may understand most civilian pilots (aka Air Canada / WestJet) I see are wearing something similar to a business suits / DEU



WestJet flying and most of the flying done in the RCAF is fairly different.  I don't recall being on a civie flight, few hundred feet over a 4+ sea state, dropping ordnance in 60 degree banks with 2g's on.

I am not a fan of this jacket, but aircrew has been wearing 1 piece flight suits and jackets forever.  I can wear my flight jacket, my AF fleece jacket, any CADPAT jacket.  It's not like we all have the exact same look to start with.

Leather was the original outer wear for flyers .   Personally I think it's plenty hot now with my 2 piece and long johns.   I can't imagine leather added for flying.


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## ballz (22 Mar 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> WestJet flying and most of the flying done in the RCAF is fairly different.  I don't recall being on a civie flight, few hundred feet over a 4+ sea state, dropping ordnance in 60 degree banks with 2g's on.



Sorry, I think you misunderstood my line of thought. I completely understand why our pilots need to wear something like a flight suit instead of a business suit like an Air Canada pilot would wear. I can also understand why a small percentage of civilian pilots would probably wear something "operational" as well, but I don't ever see that small percentage, *I* rarely see anything other than a WestJet/Air Canada pilot, and so I wouldn't be "in the know" as to whether it is normal/professional attire for pilots to wear a leather jacket over their coveralls.


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## Transporter (22 Mar 2014)

ballz said:
			
		

> Sorry, I think you misunderstood my line of thought. I completely understand why our pilots need to wear something like a flight suit instead of a business suit like an Air Canada pilot would wear. I can also understand why a small percentage of civilian pilots would probably wear something "operational" as well, but I don't ever see that small percentage, *I* rarely see anything other than a WestJet/Air Canada pilot, and so I wouldn't be "in the know" as to whether it is normal/professional attire for pilots to wear a leather jacket over their coveralls.



Why do you insist on referring to the flight suit as coveralls? Just trying to be antagonistic?


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## ballz (22 Mar 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> Why do you insist on referring to the flight suit as coveralls? Just trying to be antagonistic?



"What's in a name? that which we call "coveralls"
By any other name would look just as horrible with CANEX leather jacket" or something like that...

Honestly, why is it so offensive to refer to it as coveralls? I've worked many a job where I wore something that looked like a 'flight suit' but we called them coveralls. What is so offensive about that, exactly? I just Googled it and half the company's that make them refer to them as "flyer's coveralls."

Oranges vs Oranges?


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## Transporter (22 Mar 2014)

ballz said:
			
		

> "What's in a name? that which we call "coveralls"
> By any other name would look just as horrible with CANEX leather jacket" or something like that...
> 
> Honestly, why is it so offensive to refer to it as coveralls? I've worked many a job where I wore something that looked like a 'flight suit' but we called them coveralls. What is so offensive about that, exactly? I just Googled it and half the company's that make them refer to them as "flyer's coveralls."
> ...



It isn't offensive, it's just that in 25+ years of service I've never heard anyone refer to a flight suit, in day-to-day language, as coveralls just as I've never heard anyone refer to CADPAT, or combats, as their jacket and trousers either, but those are the names used on the garment tags for both of those clothing items. 

Sleep tight in your jacket and trousers.


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## ballz (23 Mar 2014)

I refer to them as a shirt, t-shirt, and pants pretty routinely? It has nothing to do with what's on the tag for me. When I wore those I was working in the oil sands and they were coveralls. I have had almost zero interaction with the Air Force in my short career, so I saw a set of coveralls and called it coveralls. Only when you said "flight suit" did I remember that aircrew call it that, it's all just lingo to me.

No antagonist intentions meant my friend. 

Back to the topic at hand, this idea had potential and was a complete fail in execution. There are a ton of sharp-looking jackets that show up under "olive flight jacket" or bomber jacket that would look real sharp/professional over the olive flight suit, and be functional as well. Our members have been undersold again.


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## rotrhed (23 Mar 2014)

Poppa said:
			
		

> Seeing that poster I no longer feel bad about my haircut/burns



Advertising fail. Three observations:

1. Sideburns. Yeah, it's chair force, but c'mon. At least pick a 'model' with a regulation hairdo.

2. Hat. For the love of god, couldn't they put his wedge on straight before taking the picture? 

3. Cap badge. Not sure what it is (Log maybe?) but it sure isn't Air Ops. Must've just grabbed the first wedge they found in the costume box and flopped it on his melon.

Bottom line, the ad looks amateur with a product to match. It's a questionable piece of non-essential kit with a steep price tag and kindergarten marketing. How long until we see pallets of them available on Crown Assets Disposal?


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## OldSolduer (23 Mar 2014)

bigzoomie said:
			
		

> Advertising fail. Three observations:
> 
> 1. Sideburns. Yeah, it's chair force, but c'mon. At least pick a 'model' with a regulation hairdo.
> 
> ...



Good catch. CANEX is selling this I take it?

I bet the model in the photo isn't even RCAF. Plus he needs a haircut.


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## Eye In The Sky (23 Mar 2014)

ballz said:
			
		

> "What's in a name? that which we call "coveralls"
> By any other name would look just as horrible with CANEX leather jacket" or something like that...
> 
> Honestly, why is it so offensive to refer to it as coveralls? I've worked many a job where I wore something that looked like a 'flight suit' but we called them coveralls. What is so offensive about that, exactly? I just Googled it and half the company's that make them refer to them as "flyer's coveralls."
> ...



The 1 CAD Orders, Wing Dress Instructions, etc refer to them as flying suits or flight suits.    

When I wore a black beret, a "crew suit" and "coveralls" were both technically coveralls, but had a definite distinction in which was which.


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## Eye In The Sky (23 Mar 2014)

bigzoomie said:
			
		

> 3. Cap badge. Not sure what it is (Log maybe?) but it sure isn't Air Ops. Must've just grabbed the first wedge they found in the costume box and flopped it on his melon.



I thought it look a little like a PA badge.


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## MAJONES (23 Mar 2014)

Let's just call them specialized coveralls and be done with it. :argument:


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## Loachman (23 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Last time I was in KAF, I half-joked about getting the guy on the boardwalk to make those jackets for $100 and selling them for $150



You could have had them made from cat fur as well.


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## Zoomie (24 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> If the jacket wasn't $400 or more, since the USAF and others manage to have jackets sell to the public for $250, and if it didn't *seem* like the design was just plucked out of a Sears catalog vice a recognizable "flying jacket" pattern


USAF jacket quality has gone downhill lately - I've seen the "leather" flaking off a 2 year old jacket.  Also - squadrons purchase these jackets for their members.  These jackets are also mass produced - so of course the price point is lower.  The RCAF jacket is manufactured specifically for us - so we're going to pay a little more.


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## brihard (24 Mar 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I bet the model in the photo isn't even RCAF. Plus he needs a haircut.



See how quickly you contradicted yourself there?  8)


----------



## OldSolduer (25 Mar 2014)

Brihard said:
			
		

> See how quickly you contradicted yourself there?  8)



Got me......


----------



## dimsum (25 Mar 2014)

Ditch said:
			
		

> USAF jacket quality has gone downhill lately - I've seen the "leather" flaking off a 2 year old jacket.  Also - squadrons purchase these jackets for their members.  These jackets are also mass produced - so of course the price point is lower.  The RCAF jacket is manufactured specifically for us - so we're going to pay a little more.



Fair enough.  I do remember someone (maybe you?) mentioning that a USAF sqn pays for _everything_, incl. pens, travel, etc.  

Jim and Brian, I was thinking of getting a haircut while on leave.  You guys just convinced me not to


----------



## cupper (25 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Jim and Brian, I was thinking of getting a haircut while on leave.  You guys just convinced me not to



Which one were you thinking of cutting? ;D


----------



## Zoomie (25 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I do remember someone (maybe you?) mentioning that a USAF sqn pays for _everything_, incl. pens, travel, etc.


Aye, that sounds like something I would say.  Let me clarify - while the member does pay for his/her dress uniform and initial issue of ACU's, boots etc.  The Squadron can also use their "RA" budget to purchase operational gear for their members (to include flight suits, boots, leather jackets) plus all the day to day sundry items needed to run a 400 man unit (toner, paper, pens, desks, chairs, etc).  At my current Sqn, once a member attains CMR status (Combat Mission Ready) he/she adds their name to the leather jacket list - outlining their size and CMR date.  When the budget allows, they purchase jackets and issue them out to the member in the order of which they got CMR.  I'm pretty sure I could add my name to the list - as the Airmen have already asked what size I am - I won't though, lots of deserving (and poor) Airmen out there.


----------



## Phoenix80 (11 Apr 2014)

Privateer said:
			
		

> ... compensation includes cool new leather jacket...



LMAO!
That jacket looks hideous, IMO. )
Why can't they have RAF or USN style jackets?


----------



## Journeyman (11 Apr 2014)

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Why can't they have RAF or USN style jackets?


Because this isn't the RAF or USN.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (11 Apr 2014)

Although, when the RCN had its own air arm in the 1960s, they did use USN leather jackets for their aircrew. Which, AFAIK is the only Canadian use of leather flying jackets unless you go back to WWII and count the bomber crew style leather jackets.

So really, the USN style jacket is the traditional Canadian Leather Jacket....


----------



## McG (11 Apr 2014)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Because this isn't the RAF or USN.


Of course, it is apparently better to look foreign than to have something like a wrong service.  So, that suggestion should be all good ... Right?


----------



## Loachman (11 Apr 2014)

Traditional Irvin jackets:

http://www.flying-jacket.com/jacket-category.aspx?id=1

http://www.aceshighjackets.com/

http://www.iwmshop.org.uk/product/18893/RAF_Irvin_Flying_Jacket

The current RAF leather jacket:

http://www.flying-jacket.com/product-details.aspx?id=20


----------



## dimsum (11 Apr 2014)

This is me chuckling quietly to myself on how this managed to become another "RCAF aircrew leather jacket" thread.  

 ^-^

ETA:  If you look at the "Current RAF Jacket" link that Loachman put up, it's the same (or very, very similar) to the RCAF jacket but in blue.  The RCAF jacket is dark brown.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Apr 2014)

That new RCAF jacket would be right at home outside a Romanian dance club.


----------



## DonaldMcL (12 Apr 2014)

To be honest, I didn't give the jacket much thought either and dismissed it after seeing the "ad".

I then went to the Canex for an unrelated pit-stop and they had the demo going. It changed my mind. The jacket is actually a dark "chocolatey" brown and doesn't have near the shine of the one in the ad. I also think the shine that is will quickly go away once you wear it. 

It's actually made by Thinsulate and has a removable liner for those in Winnipeg  ;D

Overpriced? Hell yeah. As bad as everyone makes it out to be? Not at all


----------



## rotrhed (12 Apr 2014)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Although, when the RCN had its own air arm in the 1960s, they did use USN leather jackets for their aircrew. Which, AFAIK is the only Canadian use of leather flying jackets unless you go back to WWII and count the bomber crew style leather jackets.
> 
> So really, the USN style jacket is the traditional Canadian Leather Jacket....



SKT nailed it. Here's a RCN G1, based on the classic USN G1.

















Put this jacket into service and there'll be line ups into the CANEX parking lot.  ;D


----------



## dimsum (12 Apr 2014)

B-but....there's no place to put the rank slides!  How will people know who to salute and stand back in awe of while walking down the street?!  

 :sarcasm:

In fairness, it's a nice jacket.  Maybe someone will bring that up as an Option B when CANEX starts realizing that less people are lining up for the current one   :nod:


----------



## Journeyman (12 Apr 2014)

I was actually OK with it (bearing in mind I'm Army, so I have no dog in this fight), until I got to the pic of the back.  Really?!

Why not sell off ad space for "Red Bull" ('gives you wings')...or "The Maple Leaf" (since no one reads it, they may as well see it advertised on aircrew)


----------



## rotrhed (13 Apr 2014)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I was actually OK with it (bearing in mind I'm Army, so I have no dog in this fight), until I got to the pic of the back.  Really?!
> 
> Why not sell off ad space for "Red Bull" ('gives you wings')...or "The Maple Leaf" (since no one reads it, they may as well see it advertised on aircrew)



Perhaps you're confusing the old school RCN jacket pictured above with the new RCAF jacket? In addition to squadron and ship badges, putting cruise patches on the back is/was a very USN thing to do. In the case of LCdr Cantlie's jacket, I would venture to guess that he probably either served in, or at least had some traps on, a USS. And he's added the patches out of pride. Pretty common among naval aviators. That said, I've seen numerous photos of the G1 with everything from a lot of badges to none. I guess it comes down to a blend of personal preference and unit direction.

Rest assured, the new jacket will not be so adorned. Name tag and wings on the left breast. And something about metal rank identifiers on the shoulders. Then whatever else the dress police dream up.


----------



## Journeyman (13 Apr 2014)

No confusion; just commenting on the specific picture presented.

I assure you that we have enough people in the Army with so much free time on their hands that they can care about bling and badges to the detriment of spending on equipment and training, that it would be pretty arrogant of me to dictate fashion to the Air Force or Navy.   :nod:


----------



## Eye In The Sky (13 Apr 2014)

If I bought the CANEX leather jacket, I would then have...5? issued jackets of various types left hanging in my closet I am already authorized to wear with my green jammies, that the taxpayer has already paid for.  So to me, fine it isn't paid for by the tax payer, but all the stuff they did already pay for is just gathering dust.

I know it's a CANEX jacket, but if I can't wear it doing my real job...well it isn't much good to me.  I already have my CADPAT rain jacket, AF fleece, combat jacket and parka to cover the occassions a 4 season flying jacket doesn't suit.  If its not something I wear workin', I don't have a use for it.

My  :2c:.


----------



## dimsum (13 Apr 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> If I bought the CANEX leather jacket, I would then have...5? issued jackets of various types left hanging in my closet I am already authorized to wear with my green jammies, that the taxpayer has already paid for.  So to me, fine it isn't paid for by the tax payer, but all the stuff they did already pay for is just gathering dust.
> 
> I know it's a CANEX jacket, but if I can't wear it doing my real job...well it isn't much good to me.  I already have my CADPAT rain jacket, AF fleece, combat jacket and parka to cover the occassions a 4 season flying jacket doesn't suit.  If its not something I wear workin', I don't have a use for it.
> 
> My  :2c:.



I'm fairly certain the target demographic is the Ottawa/Winnipeg folk......or maybe the Airbus and Challenger Sqns when they transition to flying in DEU*   >  

* Good Idea Fairies:  Disregard what I said.


----------



## Loachman (16 Apr 2014)

bigzoomie said:
			
		

> Then whatever else the dress police dream up.



So can it, or can it not, be worn with a fleece toque?

That's pretty critical, I think.


----------



## cupper (16 Apr 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> So can it, or can it not, be worn with a fleece toque?
> 
> That's pretty critical, I think.



No. Leather Flying Helmet only.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Apr 2014)

cupper said:
			
		

> No. Leather Flying Helmet only.


----------



## cupper (16 Apr 2014)

:rofl:

Milpoints Inbound RG


----------



## Privateer (29 Apr 2014)

Curious:  Has anyone seen the "metal rank devices" that are to be worn with the jacket?  I was wondering what those are, especially for officers.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (29 Apr 2014)

No idea.  I noticed the CANEX started selling "rank" type cuff links for mess kit, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are similar.

https://www3.cfpsa.com/wyn2/en/wyn/ItemDetails.aspx?departmentID=51&CategoryID=67&ProductID=2528&CartID=23d02fab-1b18-4e98-9f7b-5bb0ea2b9b64


----------



## Journeyman (29 Apr 2014)

Privateer said:
			
		

> Curious:  Has anyone seen the "metal rank devices" that are to be worn with the jacket?  I was wondering what those are, especially for officers.


Pips & Crowns for *everyone*!!    :blotto:


----------



## Privateer (29 Apr 2014)

Well, I am envisioning RCAF pers going out and buying whatever the metal rank devices are, only to have to throw them away and buy new ones when the RCAF rank insignia are "royalized" or whatever the verb may be.


----------



## 4Feathers (29 Apr 2014)

I think CANEX should ship their stock to Romania with the 6 pack, I bet they would be popular their at the discos.


----------



## dimsum (30 Apr 2014)

4Feathers said:
			
		

> I think CANEX should ship their stock to Romania with the 6 pack, I bet they would be popular their at the discos.



Well, I see a few jackets in these pictures:

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_eng.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=62853&site=combatcamera
http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_eng.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=62854&site=combatcamera



			
				Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Maybe a return to the old ranks of "Flying Officer" or whatever the RAF came up with and probably still use.
> 
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it....oh wait.....



I'm sure there's at least one "good idea fairy" that's thinking the same thing.   >


----------



## Fishbone Jones (30 Apr 2014)

OMG!  What are they going to do when the fast boys want to wear these in their aircraft? Metal badges equal FOD. So you can't be cool, and enter your aircraft without breaking airfield protocol. 

So really, you can wear it in the Mess, or the local CANEX :


----------



## biggs (30 Apr 2014)

So I actually just got one of these (CANEX in Moose Jaw got an early shipment), and despite a lot of the skepticism that's been expressed here, which seems to be based largely on a photo in a poster with bad lighting and a model who doesn't know how to dress properly (did anyone notice he's got his flight suit zipped up all the way to his neck?), I'd say it's actually a pretty nice leather jacket.

It appears to be made from high quality top-grain leather ("black", or at least very dark brown), but it's still quite soft, and has a removable Thinsulate vest liner.  I mainly bought it to wear when I ride my motorcycle to work, which as it turns out, will probably be less controversial than wearing any other kind of jacket.

Seriously, though, has anyone heard anything definitive about these fabled "metal rank devices"?  Nobody at the CANEX could give me an answer, despite it being the most frequently asked question about these things, as they seem to be still waiting to hear from the Air Force about it.  Nametags are an open question, too, although there are websites that make them, at least for a few trades.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (30 Apr 2014)

So how long till the jackets look like that.....


----------



## jollyjacktar (30 Apr 2014)

I do have a USN G1 (sans badges, cause I don't need no stinking badges), had it for a few years now.  Great leather jacket.   Somewhat surprised the new zoomie wasn't more like a USA A2 in style.


----------



## Transporter (30 Apr 2014)

biggs said:
			
		

> Seriously, though, has anyone heard anything definitive about these fabled "metal rank devices"?  Nobody at the CANEX could give me an answer, despite it being the most frequently asked question about these things, as they seem to be still waiting to hear from the Air Force about it.  Nametags are an open question, too, although there are websites that make them, at least for a few trades.



I'd be willing to bet that part of the reason there are no metal rank devices for this jacket yet is because in the coming months the AF will announce it is changing its rank nomenclature (and insignia) back to the old RCAF (current RAF) ranks... wait for it... wait for it...


----------



## George Wallace (30 Apr 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> I'd be willing to bet that part of the reason there are no metal rank devices for this jacket yet is because in the coming months the AF will announce it is changing its rank nomenclature (and insignia) back to the old RCAF (current RAF) ranks... wait for it... wait for it...



That or they will bring in those Fleece Lined Flying Boots from WW II.......


----------



## biggs (30 Apr 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> I'd be willing to bet that part of the reason there are no metal rank devices for this jacket yet is because in the coming months the AF will announce it is changing its rank nomenclature (and insignia) back to the old RCAF (current RAF) ranks... wait for it... wait for it...



You joke, but the CAS was the reviewing officer at my wings grad, and he was giving us the old *wink wink, nudge nudge* about it, so don't be surprised...


----------



## dimsum (30 Apr 2014)

biggs said:
			
		

> You joke, but the CAS was the reviewing officer at my wings grad, and he was giving us the old *wink wink, nudge nudge* about it, so don't be surprised...



As in name/rank or full-blown uniform change?

Cue Good Idea Fairy (and CIWS for shooting down said fairy) in 3....2......1.......


----------



## MAJONES (1 May 2014)

The deck chairs will certainly look nice as they slip beneath the waves.......


----------



## OldSolduer (1 May 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> As in name/rank or full-blown uniform change?
> 
> Cue Good Idea Fairy (and CIWS for shooting down said fairy) in 3....2......1.......



Haha......this GIF is Armor plated.....and will not be denied by the CISW. 

May the farce be with you......


----------



## Transporter (1 May 2014)

biggs said:
			
		

> You joke, but the CAS was the reviewing officer at my wings grad, and he was giving us the old *wink wink, nudge nudge* about it, so don't be surprised...


Actually, I wasn't joking at all... it's coming.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (1 May 2014)

:endnigh:


----------



## Privateer (6 May 2014)

I asked CANEX itself (through its website) what the deal is on the "metal rank devices", and here is the response I received.  I have deleted names/contact information, and certain irrelevant information from the CANAIRGEN.  The rank device is addressed in paragraph 8; essentially, it has not been finalised.

My enquiry:



> Hello, I have a question about the new RCAF leather jacket. Can you tell me what the "metal rank devices" for the jacket are, and where one can get them?



CANEX response:



> Thank you for your comment.  I have spoken to the Category Manager responsible for this department and he has advised me that a CANAIRGEN has been distributed to all active members to clarify what and how to go about ordering Rank and Name badges for the jackets.  I have attached the email for your information.



The attached email and CANAIRGEN:



> As per our conversation below is a letter put together by the RCAF public affairs department which has valuable information that the stores can pass on to the customers when they get asked about the shoulder rank epaulettes and name patch. You should also note that I received all of the rank approvals (23) last Thursday and an e-mail will be sent out to all stores advising them of an approx delivery as soon as the we start the actual production.
> 
> UNCLAS                    1000-1 (RCAF CWO)
> 
> ...


----------



## George Wallace (6 May 2014)

Privateer

Have you ever owned a leather jacket?

Have you ever punched holes in it?


Just asking.


----------



## Privateer (6 May 2014)

(1) Yes and (2) no.  I thought that I'd close the loop on the "metal rank device" question by posting what CANEX said.  I do wonder why the decision was made to advertise that purchasers will be required to acquire something that doesn't exist even, it appears, at a design level.


----------



## dimsum (6 May 2014)

Why would they require us to spell out the rank on the nametag?  Isn't that what the rank slides/pins/whatever are for   ???


----------



## George Wallace (6 May 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Why would they require us to spell out the rank on the nametag?  Isn't that what the rank slides/pins/whatever are for   ???



More money in their coffers if you have to change your nametag every time you get promoted/demoted.    >


----------



## cupper (6 May 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> More money in their coffers if you have to change your nametag every time you get promoted/demoted.    >



They don't actually demote people in the Air Force do they? ;D


----------



## kev994 (6 May 2014)

cupper said:
			
		

> They don't actually demote people in the Air Force do they? ;D


Sure they do, we had that Wing Commander.... Too soon?


----------



## George Wallace (7 May 2014)

cupper said:
			
		

> They don't actually demote people in the Air Force do they? ;D



They do the "Acting/Lacking".   :nod:


----------



## eliminator (11 Oct 2014)

Pin-on ranks now available at Canex for $30. They are interesting to say the least. Abit larger than expected.

- Custom die stamped solid bronze RCAF leather jacket rank
- 30mm wide x 60mm long
- Silver plated with enamel colouring and epoxy
- Two deluxe spring clutch fasteners with 10mm long posts
- Packaged as matching set of two in a form fitting black velvet presentation box


----------



## eliminator (11 Oct 2014)

Major.


----------



## eliminator (11 Oct 2014)

BGen.


----------



## Tibbson (11 Oct 2014)

eliminator said:
			
		

> BGen.



Hmmm, can't help but wonder if they will make a set so the GG has something to wear if they have to don a flight jacket?


----------



## Loachman (14 Oct 2014)

I wonder if they'll ever break even on the cost of production.

And where on the ego-jacket are they supposed to be worn?


----------



## Good2Golf (14 Oct 2014)

I'm going to skip the jacket and go straight to using a set of these bad boys as cuff-links!  :nod:


----------



## Fishbone Jones (14 Oct 2014)

With the introduction of the metal badges, it confirms that the whole jacket thing is nothing more than an ego trip. You can't even wear it on the flightline or any appertaining portions of the apron. It now appears that the jacket is worthless, except for the 'Look at me' value.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (14 Oct 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> And where on the ego-jacket are they supposed to be worn?



Saw a few people with them on their jackets today, to go in the same area slip-on's are worn on shirts, etc.


----------



## dapaterson (14 Oct 2014)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I'm going to skip the jacket and go straight to using a set of these bad boys as cuff-links!  :nod:



Wimp.  Use them as they're intended: jam the pin through your earlobe and wear them as earrings.


----------



## Jed (14 Oct 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Wimp.  Use them as they're intended: jam the pin through your earlobe and wear them as earrings.


Blood Ranks ala Blood Wings


----------



## Eye In The Sky (14 Oct 2014)

FWIW I've yet to see any NCM aircrew with this jacket on.


----------



## Baz (14 Oct 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> FWIW I've yet to see any NCM aircrew with this jacket on.



I think half the peopke at Shearwater wearing them are NCM aircrew... I think its a group dynamic thing; once one goes then those around them do.

As I'm not flying, my flight suits have "shrunk," and I don't want to get new ones to work in the lab, I wear CADPAT; I'm fortunately spared the anguish of this particular decision.

Edited for grammar.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (14 Oct 2014)

Baz said:
			
		

> at Shearwater



That explains it...all that rotor vibration.  And people say it doesn't affect the brain function that much.  Busted!


----------



## DonaldMcL (14 Oct 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> FWIW I've yet to see any NCM aircrew with this jacket on.



I've seen a few FEs with them around the Wing.


----------



## rotrhed (18 Oct 2014)

Baz said:
			
		

> I think *half the peopke at Shearwater wearing them are NCM aircrew*... I think its a group dynamic thing; once one goes then those around them do.
> 
> As I'm not flying, my flight suits have "shrunk," and I don't want to get new ones to work in the lab, I wear CADPAT; I'm fortunately spared the anguish of this particular decision.
> 
> Edited for grammar.



I recall a time, not so long ago, when almost all the Shearwater NCM aircrew (ie AESOps) came from the Combat Arms.

Hmmm....... :nod:


----------



## OldSolduer (20 Oct 2014)

I wonder if they deployed to Kuwait with their jackets..... ^-^


----------



## Togakure (25 Jan 2015)

Nametags question:
I used to be an AC Op, got out, and will hopefully get an offer for pilot in the near future. 
Am I allowed to have the AC Op half wings on the jacket nametag until I earn the pilot wings? Or is that kind of thing a no-go?


----------



## MAJONES (25 Jan 2015)

Nav's who re-muster wear their Nav wings until they earn the upgrade, ( ;D ).  I don't see why AESOPs would be different.


----------



## McG (25 Jan 2015)

The difference does not seem to be about occupation, but about re-enrolling as opposed to being selected for a commissioning program.  I think the old qualification would have to be re-recognized through PLAR at time of re-enrollment.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (25 Jan 2015)

AC Op and AES OP are different trades.  

I'm not sure if 'trade badges' (wings are qual badges) are 'allowed' on the leather jacket stuff.


----------



## Togakure (25 Jan 2015)

Eye in the Sky - I'm under the impression that they are mandatory. The website has every full and half wing set Canada has on there. 
MAJONES - I tend to want to agree with you, and the only thing I could think of against that would be a rule that only full wings are allowed on there, as Eye in the Sky thinks. 
That said, since the RCAF has opened the jacket to every trade to worn with the 3's, it would be weird that most members wouldn't be allowed to have anything on there.


----------



## Good2Golf (25 Jan 2015)

Togakure, pretty sure the only metal device(s) on the personally-purchased RCAF leather jacket are the required rank devices attached to the epaulettes.  The name tag is a leather/velcro'd patch similar to US flying clothing name badges.  The name tag can be ordered with an RCAF's Qualification / Trade badge, so your name patch would have the AC Op wings and you would need to get a new name patch with your new wings, once qualified.  

I'll take a gander at the RCAF CWO's name patch next time I see him and double check back here with my findings.

Regards
G2G


----------



## Eye In The Sky (26 Jan 2015)

Question for the AEC/AC Op types; at what point are you able to put up the Airborne Warning badge on a flight suit, vice the 'half wing' trade badge of AEC/AC Op?  I *guess* when you are in a flying billet, but that's just a guess?







Good point on the 3B aspect - the leather jacket 'regs' are something I didn't really pay attention to as I already have 5 issued jackets.   ^-^


----------



## OldSolduer (26 Jan 2015)

You RCAF types should Jazz those jackets up. Gaudy and cheap is the way to go.....


----------



## dapaterson (26 Jan 2015)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> You RCAF types should Jazz those jackets up. Gaudy and cheap is the way to go.....



Just the thing: http://www.cpgear.com/store/biker_patches/extra_large_ppcli_patch.htm


----------



## OldSolduer (26 Jan 2015)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Just the thing: http://www.cpgear.com/store/biker_patches/extra_large_ppcli_patch.htm



Yes but larger and gaudier.......


----------



## Zoomie (27 Jan 2015)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Question for the AEC/AC Op types; at what point are you able to put up the Airborne Warning badge on a flight suit, vice the 'half wing' trade badge of AEC/AC Op?


They put up those particular wings once they graduate their USAF IQT on the E-3.  At which point, they can also put up those wings on their service dress for the rest of their careers.


----------



## Togakure (27 Jan 2015)

What he said


----------



## Danjanou (27 Jan 2015)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> You RCAF types should Jazz those jackets up. Gaudy and cheap is the way to go.....



I agree







 8)


----------



## upandatom (28 Jan 2015)

Saw a Pilot wearing this today-

The only thing that was missing was him wandering around with a white scarf and two stage hands carrying around fans to make sure his scarf is blowing at all times.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Jan 2015)

While I don't think the leather jacket has a practical use, I am also not sure it is quite _that_ bad...


----------



## upandatom (29 Jan 2015)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> While I don't think the leather jacket has a practical use, I am also not sure it is quite _that_ bad...



It looks like its from Giant Tiger. At that price you should be getting 5 of them.


----------



## OldSolduer (29 Jan 2015)

upandatom said:
			
		

> It looks like its from Giant Tiger. At that price you should be getting 5 of them.



The GT Boutique or Le Tigre Grand.....


----------



## Good2Golf (29 Jan 2015)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ...I'll take a gander at the RCAF CWO's name patch next time I see him and double check back here with my findings.



I spoke with the RCAF CWO, and he confirmed that AC Ops can indeed have the controller wings symbol embossed on the leather name patch above their name and rank.  Qualification or trade insignia are authorized on the name patch.

Regards
G2G


----------



## Eye In The Sky (29 Jan 2015)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I spoke with the RCAF CWO, and he confirmed that AC Ops can indeed have the controller wings symbol embossed on the leather name patch above their name and rank.  Qualification or trade insignia are authorized on the name patch.
> 
> Regards
> G2G



A-firm; had a few minutes today, looked up the CANAIRGEN.

CANAIRGEN 10/14 

2. NAME TAGS - WHEN WEARING THE LEATHER JACKET WITH THE UNIFORM, RCAF PERSONNEL MUST ALWAYS WEAR A NAME TAG THAT ADHERES TO THE REGULATIONS STIPULATED IN THIS MESSAGE. THE RCAF CONTINUES TO WORK WITH CANEX TO FIND A SUITABLE CANADIAN MANUFACTURER, BUT AT THE PRESENT TIME, THERE IS NO CANADIAN MANUFACTURER WHO IS ABLE TO PRODUCE THE NAME TAGS IN CANADA. AS SUCH, THE ONLY AUTHORIZED MANUFACTURER OF THE LEATHER NAME TAGS TO BE WORN WITH THE RCAF LEATHER JACKET IS NAMETAGS4U.COM. PERSONNEL SHOULD ORDER THEIR LEATHER NAME TAGS DIRECTLY FROM THE COMPANY S WEBSITE LOCATED AT HTTPS://WWW.NAMETAGS4U.COM/FLIGHTSUIT-NAMETAGS/

3. THERE ARE 3 COMPONENTS TO THE NAME TAGS:
A. WINGS (REQUIRED FOR ALL TRADES ONCE THE MEMBER IS TRADE QUALIFIED)
B. LINE 1 (REQUIRED FOR ALL TRADES)
C. LINE 2 (OPTIONAL)

4. THE OPTIONAL PORTION OF THE NAME TAG SHOULD BE CONSIDERED FOR INCLUSION WHEN THE MEMBER HAS A SIGNIFICANT POSITION(IE. UNIT CO/CWOS), BUT IS NOT MANDATORY. IN THIS WAY, MEMBERS MAY KEEP THE SAME NAME TAG WHEN THEY ARE POSTED BETWEEN JOBS, UNTIL THEY ARE PROMOTED, AT WHICH TIME THEY OF COURSE REQUIRE A NEW ONE. WHEN MEMBERS ELECT TO INCLUDE THEIR POSITION ON THEIR NAME TAGS, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO MAKE THE POSITION TITLES BILINGUAL. THE POSITIONS MAY BE SPELLED OUT IN FULL, OR MAY BE ABBREVIATED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE MEMBER (I.E. CO 443 SQN WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE, AS WOULD WING LOGISTICS OFFICER)

5. NAME TAGS SHALL ALL BE ORDERED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:
A. LEATHER COLOUR: BLACK
B. BACKGROUND: NONE
C. WING COLOUR: SILVER
D. TEXT LAYOUT: CENTER
E. TEXT COLOR: SILVER
F. LINE 1: RANK FIRST NAME LAST NAME, ALL IN CAPITAL LETTERS (THE RANK MAY BE ABBREVIATED OR MAY BE SPELLED OUT AT THE DISCRETION OF THE MEMBER)
G. LINE 2: POSITION, ALL IN CAPITAL LETTERS

6. CURRENTLY, THE OFFICIAL RCAF WINGS FOR MOST TRADES CAN BE FOUND BY
FOLLOWING THESE STEPS:
A. https://www.nametags4u.com/
B. SCROLL TO THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE PAGE IN THE CENTRE SECTION, UNDER THE TITLE LEATHER PRODUCTS IS THE HEADING CUSTOM NAMETAGS. CLICK ON THIS
C. IN THE CENTRE OF THE PAGE, UNDER THE TITLE SELECT A CATEGORY TO LIST THE WING BADGES, AND DESIGNS AVAILABLE FOR LEATHER TAGS IS THE HEADING CANADIAN LEATHER NAMETAGS CLICK ON THIS
D. FIND YOUR TRADE WING AND CLICK ON THE DESIGN ONLINE LINK BELOW THE CORRESPONDING WING
E. FOLLOW THE ONLINE PROMPTS TO CREATE YOUR NAMETAG


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## Navy_Pete (29 Jan 2015)

Don't forget the 2nd part of the CANAIRGEN;

7. THE FOLLOWING SUNGLASSES ARE AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN WHILE WEARING THE LEATHER JACKET:
A. AVIATOR GLASSES; FRAMES: GOLD, TINT:BLACK
B. AVIATOR GLASSES; FRAMES: SILVER. TINT: MIRROR
C. BLUE BLOCKER STYLE GLASSES

8. THE FOLLOWING MUSIC IS AUTHORIZED TO BE PLAYED OUT LOUD WHILE WEARING THE RCAF LEATHER JACKET. EXCESSIVE VOLUME AND STRUTTING IN SLOW MOTION IS ENCOURAGED:
A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCTJmXrgsFg
B. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58QOBqAWNzE


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## Ostrozac (29 Jan 2015)

As I understand it, this jacket is only approved for wear on one type of aircraft -- the kind that takes you on TD! So shouldn't the nametag read something like

CAPTAIN BLOGGINS
AEROPLAN GOLD

There could perhaps be optional patches for your status with Hertz and Hilton.


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## Zoomie (29 Jan 2015)

FWIW the jacket is high quality leather and well made.  Haters be hating all you like - it looks and feels good.


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## IceBlue (8 May 2015)

It is a very nice jacket, and for the added enjoyment it pisses off the navy types where i work.  >


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## OldSolduer (8 May 2015)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Don't forget the 2nd part of the CANAIRGEN;
> 
> 7. THE FOLLOWING SUNGLASSES ARE AUTHORIZED  WILL BE WORN WHILE WEARING THE LEATHER JACKET:
> A. AVIATOR GLASSES; FRAMES: GOLD, TINT:BLACK
> ...


Fixed, you're welcome.


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## The Bread Guy (8 May 2015)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Don't forget the 2nd part of the CANAIRGEN;
> 
> 7. THE FOLLOWING SUNGLASSES ARE AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN WHILE WEARING THE LEATHER JACKET:
> A. AVIATOR GLASSES; FRAMES: GOLD, TINT:BLACK
> ...


But not during beach volleyball ....


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## cupper (8 May 2015)

And that's another thing about the Air Force …..

At least the Navy has an excuse, what with those long periods deployed at sea and all.  >


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## CombatDoc (8 May 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> And that's another thing about the Air Force …..
> 
> At least the Navy has an excuse, what with those long periods deployed at sea and all.  >


These were Naval Aviators - the whole ice cream salesman white uniforms, and all... ;D


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## cupper (9 May 2015)

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> These were Naval Aviators - the whole ice cream salesman white uniforms, and all... ;D



Ah, right, I forgot about that. Still, no excuse for that.


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## nametags4u (29 Jul 2015)

Hello,

I work at the US company that make the leather nametags for the jackets. Lately I have been receiving requests to make more occupational badges available however the contact I had who was able to approve these for official wear is gone. I have been unsuccessful at contacting any else that can help. Canex does not know who to contact.

The title of the person who contacted us originally was Aide de Camp to the Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force but I believe she has retired. If anyone can contact the person who now has that title perhaps they could help or establish a new approval process.

If the badges can be officially approved then as per our agreement, we will pay the dies charges for the metal stamps required for printing the badges on the tags. Otherwise, the cost must be passed on to the person requesting the new badge, and the badge can not be put in the official list, so they run the risk of wearing an unapproved badge. (not that anyone would know)

-Dom


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## Good2Golf (29 Jul 2015)

nametags4u said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I work at the US company that make the leather nametags for the jackets. Lately I have been receiving requests to make more occupational badges available however the contact I had who was able to approve these for official wear is gone. I have been unsuccessful at contacting any else that can help. Canex does not know who to contact.
> 
> ...



PM sent.

Cheers
G2G


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## bLUE fOX (13 Nov 2015)

I feel this is a stupid question to have to ask, as I am sure the official supplier wouldn't be selling them if they weren't authorized, but where is the authorization to wear half wings on the jacket? I have been asked to prove that it exists, but am away from work station and can't look at CANFOR or CANAIRGENS to confirm.

Any help at all is appreciated.


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## Good2Golf (13 Nov 2015)

bLUE fOX said:
			
		

> I feel this is a stupid question to have to ask, as I am sure the official supplier wouldn't be selling them if they weren't authorized, but where is the authorization to wear half wings on the jacket? I have been asked to prove that it exists, but am away from work station and can't look at CANFOR or CANAIRGENS to confirm.
> 
> Any help at all is appreciated.



Who is telling you to prove it?  For what it's worth, I saw an AERE BGen wearing his leather jacket this morning, and it had the single-wing AERE badge on the name tag...


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## bLUE fOX (13 Nov 2015)

Another CIC officer.The discussion came up whether or not the CIC half wing could be worn on the jacket, as the badge for DEU's has not been put into the production stage. I was told that half wings weren't authorized, and while I couldn't remember where it was written down, apparently the official suppliers ordering page was deemed not official enough.


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## Good2Golf (13 Nov 2015)

bLUE fOX said:
			
		

> Another CIC officer.The discussion came up whether or not the CIC half wing could be worn on the jacket, as the badge for DEU's has not been put into the production stage. I was told that half wings weren't authorized, and while I couldn't remember where it was written down, apparently the official suppliers ordering page was deemed not official enough.



CANAIRGEN 10/14 refers:




> UNCLAS C AIR FORCE 15/14
> 
> SIC WAA
> 
> ...


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## bLUE fOX (13 Nov 2015)

Thanks a lot for that. Most appreciated.


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## dimsum (13 Nov 2015)

bLUE fOX said:
			
		

> Another CIC officer.The discussion came up whether or not the CIC half wing could be worn on the jacket, as the badge for DEU's has not been put into the production stage. I was told that half wings weren't authorized, and while I couldn't remember where it was written down, apparently the official suppliers ordering page was deemed not official enough.



What are the CIC DEU trade wings?


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## bLUE fOX (14 Nov 2015)

Hopefully this shows up. Basically it is the current CIC Air cap badge (minus the crown) on a blue background under a crown.


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## Chinook87 (15 Nov 2016)

The title says it all. Is this flight crew only or can members of purple trades such as log, nurse, doctor, etc wear it as well?

I was under the impression that it was flight crew only, thus the name of flight jacket, but a log officer in my office has and wears it so... I'm not sure anymore. 

Thanks in advance!

Sent via smoke signals


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## Chinook87 (15 Nov 2016)

I'm looking for a concise reply, not 7 pages of opinions on its appearance. Aka a "yes all airforce trades may wear it" or "no they may not."

It would have taken less time to answer than dig up a link. If you don't know please don't post. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bLUE fOX (15 Nov 2016)

Here is a list of all the authorized wings and half-wings allowed to be worn on the jacket as produced by the approved provider of the jackets name tags:

https://www.nametags4u.com/category/?cid=216


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## Chinook87 (15 Nov 2016)

Awesome thanks, just what I was looking for. 



			
				bLUE fOX said:
			
		

> Here is a list of all the authorized wings and half-wings allowed to be worn on the jacket as produced by the approved provider of the jackets name tags:
> 
> https://www.nametags4u.com/category/?cid=216





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zoomie (15 Nov 2016)

Is your Log Officer wearing a flightsuit or 3B?  Not for wear with LWCC - so unless you are a Ottawa staff officer, when do you plan on wearing it?


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## Ostrozac (15 Nov 2016)

Ditch said:
			
		

> unless you are a Ottawa staff officer, when do you plan on wearing it?



Those guys exist, and they do wear these jackets. Last year I saw the senior intelligence officer in the RCAF wearing 3B and a leather jacket walking out of 101.


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Nov 2016)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> . . .  For what it's worth, I saw an *AERE BGen* wearing his leather jacket this morning, and it had the single-wing AERE badge on the name tag...



Do air force uniform wearing general officers (those not formerly aircrew) wear trade/branch badges on their service dress jackets?  I was under the impression that generals were no longer part of their former MOSID, but were either GOL or GOS once they became GOFOs and thus don't wear the trade badges of their former occupations.


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## dimsum (16 Nov 2016)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Do air force uniform wearing general officers (those not formerly aircrew) wear trade/branch badges on their service dress jackets?  I was under the impression that generals were no longer part of their former MOSID, but were either GOL or GOS once they became GOFOs and thus don't wear the trade badges of their former occupations.



Interesting - I looked for an example and googled LGen Whitecross.  Older pics of her as a BGen/MGen with the gold ranks show the trade badge, while the ones with the new ranks don't (like her official picture).  So....no?


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## SupersonicMax (16 Nov 2016)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Do air force uniform wearing general officers (those not formerly aircrew) wear trade/branch badges on their service dress jackets?  I was under the impression that generals were no longer part of their former MOSID, but were either GOL or GOS once they became GOFOs and thus don't wear the trade badges of their former occupations.



Aren't AERE half wings qualification badges?  If that's the cass, you don't lose your qualifications because you become a General.


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## daftandbarmy (16 Nov 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Aren't AERE half wings qualification badges?  If that's the cass, you don't lose your qualifications because you become a General.



Oh... the things I could say in response to that  >


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## George Wallace (16 Nov 2016)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Oh... the things I could say in response to that  >



Yes.....but those 'things' would have applied well before they 'achieved' that rank.   >


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## SupersonicMax (16 Nov 2016)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Oh... the things I could say in response to that  >



Qualifications and competence are two different things!


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## dimsum (28 Jan 2017)

From CANFORGEN 011/17:

Glad the metal rank badge idiocy has been stopped.  Now to actually have a jacket that doesn't look ridiculous and cost $400 that you can't actually wear flying...



> RCAF LEATHER JACKET RANK INSIGNIA - THE RCAF IS CURRENTLY DEVELOPING A FABRIC VELCRO FASTENING SLIP-ON TO REPLACE THE METAL RANK INSIGNIA PINS. ALL RCAF MEMBERS WILL TRANSITION TO THIS NEW ACCOUTREMENT NLT 1 JULY 2017 WHICH WILL BE AVAILABLE AT NO COST TO MEMBERS. FURTHER DIRECTION WILL BE PROVIDED CONCERNING THE DISTRIBUTION OF THESE ITEMS PRIOR TO THE TRANSITION DEADLINE. THIS WILL BE CONSIDERED AN INTERIM MEASURE AS THE RCAF IS WORKING WITH THE CANEX TO MODIFY THE EXISTING JACKET DESIGN TO INCORPORATE A SNAP DOWN EPAULETTE WHICH WILL PERMIT THE USE OF EXISTING DEU SLIP-ONS. THE WEARING OF THE EXISTING RANK INSIGNIA PINS WILL NO LONGER BE AUTHORIZED EFFECTIVE 1 JULY 2017


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Jan 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> From CANFORGEN 011/17:
> 
> Glad the metal rank badge idiocy has been stopped.  Now to actually have a jacket that doesn't look as ridiculous and cost $400 that  because you can't actually wear flying...



 ;D


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## rotrhed (28 Jan 2017)

> RCAF LEATHER JACKET RANK INSIGNIA - THE RCAF IS CURRENTLY DEVELOPING A FABRIC VELCRO FASTENING SLIP-ON TO REPLACE THE METAL RANK INSIGNIA PINS. ALL RCAF MEMBERS WILL TRANSITION TO THIS NEW ACCOUTREMENT NLT 1 JULY 2017 WHICH WILL BE AVAILABLE AT NO COST TO MEMBERS. FURTHER DIRECTION WILL BE PROVIDED CONCERNING THE DISTRIBUTION OF THESE ITEMS PRIOR TO THE TRANSITION DEADLINE. THIS WILL BE CONSIDERED AN INTERIM MEASURE AS THE RCAF IS WORKING WITH THE CANEX TO MODIFY THE EXISTING JACKET DESIGN TO INCORPORATE A SNAP DOWN EPAULETTE WHICH WILL PERMIT THE USE OF EXISTING DEU SLIP-ONS. THE WEARING OF THE EXISTING RANK INSIGNIA PINS WILL NO LONGER BE AUTHORIZED EFFECTIVE 1 JULY 2017



Anyone want to bet that the replacement system won't be fully available by 1 Jul 17?

Almost 2(?) years since the introduction of the new rank and badges, many of us still only have one pair of dress slip ons due to shortages. And the vast majority of personnel under LCol/Col are still wearing the old style gold thread wimgs and occupational half-wings. When I asked the local tailor about 6 months ago when we could expect to see the new badges, she was not exactly optimistic. So the uniform hodge podge for we minions continues. I dream of a Remembrance Day 10 years from now when all RCAF members on parade finally have all the appropriate uniform parts that were rolled out (with much leadership fanfare) years before. 

Dreadful all-around execution of these initiatives.

Cue the rumours of the re-introduction of the RCAF forage cap...


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Jan 2017)

Yes, the Wings that we are told at supply aren't in the system yet...are being worn by some special folks at various Wings and locations.  If they aren't available, how the fuck do people have them??

Why are our snr leaders wearing things their subordinates aren't able to get yet?  Is it really the way to do things, walking around with your I'm a special snowflake badges in front of all your subordinates as say, a Wing Commander?  Or, even worse IMO...a Wing CWO??  I guess being a special snowflake is more important that making sure your people have things before you have them at the top.
  
Why the RCAF didn't wait until it had all the bits and pieces (Battle of Britain anniversary was the reason I heard) before issuing ANY of it...but hey, as long as all our leaders have the LCF stuff... 

Meanwhile, when I did my first IMPACT roto, I had to buy nametags and wings because there wasn't any to be had at supply.   :


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## dimsum (29 Jan 2017)

bigzoomie said:
			
		

> Cue the rumours of the re-introduction of the RCAF forage cap...



Great.  Now you said it...


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