# Sig Sauer P225



## Naval Reservist (6 Feb 2015)

Does anyone know where to find the P225 for sale in Canada. After using it for my trade ive fallen in love and want to use it civy side. I keep finding them with modified barrels but I cant find them with just the stock weapon.

Any ideas are appreciated!


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## Oldgateboatdriver (6 Feb 2015)

And you won't find any either.

If you were one of the very few people in Canada holding the permits and authorizations to legally carry one outside a military/law enforcement role, you would not need to make the post you just made. You would know exactly what to do.


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## Naval Reservist (6 Feb 2015)

So I guess the closest I can get would be the P226 if om correct or the P225 with a modified barrel?


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## Urocyon Cinereoargenteus (6 Feb 2015)

You technically could get a Delorean, a mad scientist and a well placed lighting bolt to go back in time... or possibly forward in time if the new common sense law changes our system... but your safer gamble is back in time.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm


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## Oldgateboatdriver (6 Feb 2015)

Look NR, I know you live in London, ON, and its a pretty boring town. However, before you go about acquiring a hand gun (any hand gun) in Canada (You are not in the USA), I strongly suggest you start by contacting your local shooting/gun club or your local police and inquire into what it is you need to do to legally acquire and own such a weapon. You might be surprised.


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## Naval Reservist (6 Feb 2015)

I do have my restricted and am a member of a gun club, I know all about restricted firearms just not the variants on sig sauers. Its why I posted here just thought someone may know something.


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Feb 2015)

there are a few that show up on CGN on occasion fitted with a longer barrel. As I recall the 225 is a shortened Sig 220 in 9mm. You could keep your eye open for a ex-German Sig 220 in 9mm but it will have the heel release. The 220 in .45acp is single stacked as well and has the side mag release. The Norinco NP-34 is a direct copy (except for lock block) of the Sig 228, or you could buy the 229. If you are on a budget and don't want the Norinco, seriously consider the Sig 2022 in 9mm. Try to fondle the guns before buying as each gun will fit your hand differently.


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## Naval Reservist (6 Feb 2015)

Colin P said:
			
		

> there are a few that show up on CGN on occasion fitted with a longer barrel. As I recall the 225 is a shortened Sig 220 in 9mm. You could keep your eye open for a ex-German Sig 220 in 9mm but it will have the heel release. The 220 in .45acp is single stacked as well and has the side mag release. The Norinco NP-34 is a direct copy (except for lock block) of the Sig 228, or you could buy the 229. If you are on a budget and don't want the Norinco, seriously consider the Sig 2022 in 9mm. Try to fondle the guns before buying as each gun will fit your hand differently.



Thank for the quality reply,

I have looked at the 220 before. I can't seem to find one in 9mm but the .45acp with heel magazine release is looking mighty fine! Norinco is a bit out of my price range as a naval reservist in college, maybe in the future I can take a look at it.

Thanks,
NR


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Feb 2015)

Unlikely to find a 220 in 45acp with a heel release, most were in 9mm

Plus you can't afford to shoot .45acp by the sound of it. Your best options for now is either the Nork NP-22 or NP-34 and if you need to stick to Sig, get a Classic Sig in .22cal and later buy a upper in 9mm. Eventually get a small Lee press (no your dick won't fall off if you use Lee) and start reloading 9mm which will still save you money and teach you a lot about shooting. As your money flow improves you can acquire more guns and reloading stuff.


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## cryco (6 Feb 2015)

Does buying the 226 in 22 and then buying an upper 9mm work out to buying a 9mm from the get go?
 Also, the thought of reloading is daunting. It seems to me that the initial cost and the time required may no be justified if you don't shoot anything but 22 every week.


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## Naval Reservist (6 Feb 2015)

cryco said:
			
		

> Does buying the 226 in 22 and then buying an upper 9mm work out to buying a 9mm from the get go?
> Also, the thought of reloading is daunting. It seems to me that the initial cost and the time required may no be justified if you don't shoot anything but 22 every week.



No reloading your own ammunition can save you tons of money. I reload my own .22lr rounds already and it saves me a TON of money! Even though I don't shoot all that often.


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## Dissident (6 Feb 2015)

You can find some decent package deals on a 226 9mm with the .22 conversion. I shot a friends and thought it was pretty neat and well worth it for shooting cheap and similar to the work gun.


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## CombatDoc (6 Feb 2015)

Naval Reservist said:
			
		

> No reloading your own ammunition can save you tons of money. I reload my own .22lr rounds already and it saves me a TON of money! Even though I don't shoot all that often.


You reload .22lr rounds yourself and you save money?  Really?  

How do you reprime the used cases?  Considering that rim fires (is .22LR) use a liquid primer that is spun into the cases centrifugally, unless your name is Winchester/Remington/Lapua etc you typically don't. Yes, I am aware that you can use ground up matches or paper cap gun rolls, but, really. Similarly, show me the 22LR reloading dies made by Hornady/RCBS/etc. And yes, I am also aware of the sharpshooter brand reloading stuff. 

Unless you are in a SHTF survivalist situation with unlimited time on your hands, it is far more economical to buy bricks of 22. 

I do agree that reloading centre fire pistol is cost and time effective, particularly if you have a progressive reloading press such as Dillon. And my experience reloading 9 mm/.357 mag/38 Spl/40 S&W/45 Colt/45 ACP indicate that 45 is about 50% to 100% more expensive than .355 or .357, mainly in the more expensive cost of bullets and brass.


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## cryco (6 Feb 2015)

they're pretty guns, but I held one and it felt kind of small in my hands. I still haven't found one that fits like a glove in my large hands.

As far as reloading goes, how long does it take you to reload? Time is in short supply for me, this is why I never bothered looking into reloading.
I have to book a date just to clean my guns.


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## Kat Stevens (6 Feb 2015)

cryco said:
			
		

> they're pretty guns, but I held one and it felt kind of small in my hands. I still haven't found one that fits like a glove in my large hands.
> 
> As far as reloading goes, how long does it take you to reload? Time is in short supply for me, this is why I never bothered looking into reloading.
> I have to book a date just to clean my guns.



Desert Eagle, ridiculously huge grips...


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Feb 2015)

cryco said:
			
		

> they're pretty guns, but I held one and it felt kind of small in my hands. I still haven't found one that fits like a glove in my large hands.
> 
> As far as reloading goes, how long does it take you to reload? Time is in short supply for me, this is why I never bothered looking into reloading.
> I have to book a date just to clean my guns.



Put a set of Hogue Monogrips on it.


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Feb 2015)

cryco said:
			
		

> they're pretty guns, but I held one and it felt kind of small in my hands. I still haven't found one that fits like a glove in my large hands.
> 
> As far as reloading goes, how long does it take you to reload? Time is in short supply for me, this is why I never bothered looking into reloading.
> I have to book a date just to clean my guns.



Once you are setup reloading pistol is fast, even a Lee turret press will put out about 150 rds an hour. Dillion's are wonderful presses but unless you have money to burn or shooting a lot of rounds, then it's not generally worth it.

You can reload .22cal, but that is very time consuming and you have to work with a very explosive mixture to reprime the rim. I don't know anyone personally that does reload .22cal and I know/met a a fair number of people in the industry. Thre are a few blogs out their covering the process.


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## NavyShooter (7 Feb 2015)

.22 LR reloading kits do exist, and one was recently tested on CGN with a mostly favourable report made on its function.  

For the effort vs result, I'm not heading that way for reloading any time soon.  Besides, I have 4+ cases of .22 hanging around, so I'm not in a rush to get more.  Buy it cheap, stack it deep.

As for an actual Sig 225, well, I'll let you know that The Shooting Edge brought some in several years ago with extended barrels installed.  They sold for $1049, which is why I never bought one.  I'm not sure how many they brought in, but it was a limited quantity.  I'd start with calling them to see if they have one tucked away in the back of the shop still.

If you cannot get a 225, then the 226 is pretty darn close in terms of fit and form.  They are still in production, and you can still get parts for them too.

The sub-caliber .22 slide is a darn good idea for it too.

NS


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## Urocyon Cinereoargenteus (7 Feb 2015)

SFRC has ex-armorer 226's from time to time. When they go onsale they can be an extra %25 off. Theyre like new, but covered with scratches from people taking them apart repeatedly. I picked up a DAK with night sights for under $500. Ordered a can of Duracoat from Beetle Outdoor Supply for $45 and now it looks like new. Id avoid the Norc unless you can get a known good used one from somebody at your club; which will only set you back $200 or so.


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## Jarnhamar (7 Feb 2015)

cryco said:
			
		

> Does buying the 226 in 22 and then buying an upper 9mm work out to buying a 9mm from the get go?
> Also, the thought of reloading is daunting. It seems to me that the initial cost and the time required may no be justified if you don't shoot anything but 22 every week.



This is what I did. 
I got the .22 P226 for around $600 or $700 (which came with the beavertail grip commonly found in the more expensive P226 Dark Elite model) and then picked up a 9mm upper slide for $259.   
The frame is the same whether you buy the .22LR, 9mm, .45 etc..


Some people also like buying a .22LR Sig 226 and then purchasing different slides because you will only have a .22LR handgun registered and not a 9mm.


As far as reloading going I know of quite a few people who find it cheaper/less time consuming to just buy average quality bulk 9mm ammo.


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## Boondock Saint (7 Feb 2015)

Colin P said:
			
		

> there are a few that show up on CGN on occasion fitted with a longer barrel. As I recall the 225 is a shortened Sig 220 in 9mm. You could keep your eye open for a ex-German Sig 220 in 9mm but it will have the heel release. The 220 in .45acp is single stacked as well and has the side mag release. The Norinco NP-34 is a direct copy (except for lock block) of the Sig 228, or you could buy the 229. If you are on a budget and don't want the Norinco, seriously consider the Sig 2022 in 9mm. Try to fondle the guns before buying as each gun will fit your hand differently.



Not sure if I would opt for 9mm, I'll stay with the acp, I'm used to the load. Fondle ur gun....like that!


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Feb 2015)

Urocyon Cinereoargenteus said:
			
		

> SFRC has ex-armorer 226's from time to time. When they go onsale they can be an extra %25 off. Theyre like new, but covered with scratches from people taking them apart repeatedly. I picked up a DAK with night sights for under $500. Ordered a can of Duracoat from Beetle Outdoor Supply for $45 and now it looks like new. Id avoid the Norc unless you can get a known good used one from somebody at your club; which will only set you back $200 or so.



Actually you be better off to buy a new Nork as the quality has improved (each generation is better than the next) and they fixed the rail cracking issue with the winged locking block. The frame rail issue is basically the same issue as the real Sig, but it happens earlier. I suspect the early Norks will also suffer the RH hole elongation issue as they use the early Sig spring design as well.

Since this shooter appears to be on a tight budget, there is no way he will shoot enough to wear out the Norinco gun anytime soon. You have to look at the whole budget, gun, accessories, cartridge costs, membership costs, storage.


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## Colin Parkinson (28 Feb 2015)

There is a 9mm 220 for sale on CGN for $850, this has the European style heel release

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1127705-SIG-P220-9mm


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## TimneyTime (19 Mar 2019)

Urocyon Cinereoargenteus said:
			
		

> You technically could get a Delorean, a mad scientist and a well placed lighting bolt to go back in time... or possibly forward in time if the new common sense law changes our system... but your safer gamble is back in time.
> http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm



You can buy a Sig P225-A1 from Firearms Outlet Canada, and have it shipped right to your house.  PMQ and any military style barracks/shacks etc might be a bit difficult about this, check with them first.  But, if you're living civvie side, and have an RPAL, you can buy one no problem.  The P225 is NOT a prohibited firearm.  It is restricted.

Finding a place to shoot it can be painful depending on where you live.  You can't just beetle around in the woods with it, or even in your back yard, for that matter.  You must follow a specific path to and from an approved range, and must inform the RCMP when you move (this can be extremely painful for military members).

IMO the Military should be a little more permissive about this sort of thing, since troops who are avid sports shooters could easily transfer the skill to the military.  I have made marked improvements with my marksmanship, just by going to the range a few times a month on my own dime, with my own firearm.

My personal experience in the military is that people look at you like you're growing snakes out of your eyeballs when you start talking positively about personal firearms use.

PS I'm not suggesting people should be cavalier about it.


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## RocketRichard (19 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> You can buy a Sig P225-A1 from Firearms Outlet Canada, and have it shipped right to your house.  PMQ and any military style barracks/shacks etc might be a bit difficult about this, check with them first.  But, if you're living civvie side, and have an RPAL, you can buy one no problem.  The P225 is NOT a prohibited firearm.  It is restricted.
> 
> Finding a place to shoot it can be painful depending on where you live.  You can't just beetle around in the woods with it, or even in your back yard, for that matter.  You must follow a specific path to and from an approved range, and must inform the RCMP when you move (this can be extremely painful for military members).
> 
> ...


This. Last time I shot the service pistol it was abysmal. Once domestic niner gives approval will ‘pull trigger’ on buying a pistol so I can practice. 


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## JesseWZ (19 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> IMO the Military should be a little more permissive about this sort of thing, since troops who are avid sports shooters could easily transfer the skill to the military.  I have made marked improvements with my marksmanship, just by going to the range a few times a month on my own dime, with my own firearm.



Not to sound combative, but what would you suggest the _military_ do about gun legislation? What permission does the military have the authority to grant?


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## Jarnhamar (19 Mar 2019)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Not to sound combative, but what would you suggest the _military_ do about gun legislation? What permission does the military have the authority to grant?



Maybe soldiers pay for their personal firearms and allow them to bring them home


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## QV (19 Mar 2019)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Not to sound combative, but what would you suggest the _military_ do about gun legislation? What permission does the military have the authority to grant?



How about authorize soldiers to sign out their service weapon to take to a private range for marksmanship practice.  Members of the CAF are considered Public Officers and are exempt the normal firearms laws for the purpose of their duty or employment.


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## RocketRichard (19 Mar 2019)

QV said:
			
		

> How about authorize soldiers to sign out their service weapon to take to a private range for marksmanship practice.  Members of the CAF are considered Public Officers and are exempt the normal firearms laws for the purpose of their duty or employment.


That would be awesome and save members cash and much hassle. 


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## TimneyTime (19 Mar 2019)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Not to sound combative, but what would you suggest the _military_ do about gun legislation? What permission does the military have the authority to grant?



I was definitely not suggesting the military change government legislation... 

I was suggesting that the military be more permissive in terms of it's attitude towards storing firearms in Qs. I have heard no end of stories about members moving around and then not being able to store firearms where they move to, so they have to sell them.  Also, I've heard of extra visits to Qs where firearms are stored, for no other reason than firearms are stored there.

Basically, harassing firearms owners simply because they own firearms, and treating them like criminals.  Firearms owners are not criminals by default...  That's what I was talking about.


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## TimneyTime (19 Mar 2019)

QV said:
			
		

> How about authorize soldiers to sign out their service weapon to take to a private range for marksmanship practice.  Members of the CAF are considered Public Officers and are exempt the normal firearms laws for the purpose of their duty or employment.



Also, this is an awesome idea.  Especially if members already have an RPAL, and have at least passed their PWT1.


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## QV (19 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> Also, this is an awesome idea.  Especially if members already have an RPAL, and have at least passed their PWT1.



CAF members do not need an RPAL now, and you wouldn't in my suggestion either. Don't complicate this. Just being a qualified soldier should be the criteria as you are trained on the weapon already.


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## JesseWZ (19 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> Also, this is an awesome idea.  Especially if members already have an RPAL, and have at least passed their PWT1.



This should prove to be an interesting discussion topic. There are more than a few areas where significant changes would need to take place in both law and policy before this could become reality. 

Who templates and certifies the private range for CF weapons? Does DND pay for that? What happens if there is an "incident?" Is the member on duty when they have their weapon system with them?

What about the ammunition used? Will it be stock #'d, tracked and accountable? If not, should we be using non CF ammunition for a CF weapon system? 

In this scenario, we'd be completely re-writing how we do ammunition tracking...

What about storage? As it stands, the CF has pretty robust security policy for "personal weapons". Will they be allowed in members homes? Cars? Will transport to and from work be allowed? Pit or coffee stops? 

Then questions come in about legal authority. While members of the CF *may* be Public Officers in some situations, what are the boundaries of that authorization? Who is going to be accountable to make firing a CF weapon at a private range part of "employment"... 

I would wager taking a personal weapon system home to play with on a private range is going to fall outside of "duty". How far do we take this? Can an Inf Wpns Pl member lug their C6 to the range?

Personally, the quality of weapons handling I've seen in some persons on base security details would make me seriously reconsider allowing carte blanche troops to visit a private range with our weapons. Don't forget, absent LEOs and certain other "close with and destroy" type trades, most CF members handle their weapons a few times a year...

If the political will exists to re-write most of our security, ammunition and weapons policy, and the money exists for ammunition for target shooting, and range templating, and range renumeration, and... _* someone *_ high and mighty enough is willing to *take the risk* and assume liability for all that this entails, then maybe this idea has traction.


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## QV (19 Mar 2019)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> This should prove to be an interesting discussion topic. There are more than a few areas where significant changes would need to take place in both law and policy before this could become reality.
> 
> Who templates and certifies the private range for CF weapons? Does DND pay for that? What happens if there is an "incident?" Is the member on duty when they have their weapon system with them?
> Ranges are already certified in the province they are located.  Training is considered on duty. Travel for training is also duty travel.
> ...


  
This doesn't have to be that hard... It would only be as hard as the CAF makes it...


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## TimneyTime (19 Mar 2019)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> This should prove to be an interesting discussion topic. There are more than a few areas where significant changes would need to take place in both law and policy before this could become reality.
> 
> Who templates and certifies the private range for CF weapons? Does DND pay for that? What happens if there is an "incident?" Is the member on duty when they have their weapon system with them?
> 
> ...



5.56 is available for civilians... members could just buy their own ammo.

I think the idea for taking eg. a C7 would be to go to a military range and shoot it at a military range, with your own ammo.  I understand the concern about unapproved ammo, and you'll have to forgive my ignorance with the paperwork involved, but wouldn't it just be a few checks in boxes?

Canadian Forces, and the Firearms Act:

From the firearms act:


> 3 (1) This Act is binding on Her Majesty in right of Canada or a province.
> 
> Marginal note:Canadian Forces
> 
> (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), this Act does not apply in respect of the Canadian Forces.



Even futher, with respect to storage and handling in SOR/98-209, section 2 says that the regulations in the Firearms Act do not apply to members of the Canadian Forces.



> Application:
> 
> 2 (1) These Regulations do not apply to members of any of the following classes of persons who are acting in the course of their duties or for the purposes of their employment:
> 
> ...


etc.

I'm not a lawyer, but I interpret this as; only subsection 1 applies to Canadian Forces members, meaning that regular criminal law applies to CF members, but not the firearms act itself.  Of course, a judge can decide whatever he wants in court, but that's how the language reads to me.  Meaning that a CF member can't just run down the street firing off rounds, yelling "ALL HAIL THE QUEEN!!!" or some such nonsense.

It's literally a catch all to actually allow Canadian Forces members to handle firearms while on duty.

This is why members are allowed to operate a myriad of prohibited firearms without having to have a license to do so, other than their CF ID card.

Further, the conditions on your RPAL actually already allow you to transport and operate restricted and prohibited firearms, as long as you have the conditions to do so... and you DON'T have to be a member of the CF, necessarily, to do so.  Such is especially the case with grandfathered prohibited firearms.  You can get this approval by requesting it from the CFO for your province, and it's not that much of a hassle, other than waiting a long time for the paperwork to get done, and for them to send you the papers that authorize you to do so.

I understand the dangers of certain military members with questionable common sense, which is a legitimate concern.  However, if they've passed their training, that should be the measure by which they are approved to have the privilege of extra time on the range.  Maybe if these types of members went to the range more than once a year, they wouldn't be bungling idiots with their weapons handling proficiency.  No offense to bungling idiots out there.

I disagree with allowing CF members taking CF weapons to private ranges, that would be asking for trouble.  But taking your own rifle or handgun to a CF range to shoot on your own time should not involve Civilian entities.  CF Members should be allowed to do this simply by driving to the range and checking in at the hut, as long as a range is available.  I know for a fact that our range is not in use, most of the time... it's just sitting there unused most of the time.

The big nail in the coffin is pretty much approval from higher authorities. Never going to happen, because they don't want to accept the responsibility, rightly so.  I wouldn't.  But I wish there was someone with big enough cahones to do it.


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## Jarnhamar (19 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> 5.56 is available for civilians... members could just buy their own ammo.



That'll never work.
For starters members technically aren't allowed to even use aftermarket slings on their C7s - CAF issue only.

Members would run shitty surplus ammo or hot hand-loaded ammo, first gun that blows up would shut everything down.

I remember drawing C7s, bolts and mags to do BFT work up in the reserves. 

Now for security we have to separate the rifle and the bolt (because you can'y buy a bolt for $99 without a license).


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## TimneyTime (19 Mar 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> That'll never work.
> For starters members technically aren't allowed to even use aftermarket slings on their C7s - CAF issue only.
> 
> Members would run shitty surplus ammo or hot hand-loaded ammo, first gun that blows up would shut everything down.
> ...



The sling stuff is minor.  I wouldn't mind following all those rules, if it meant that I could bring a C7 to the range to practice with on my own time.

It's not as if the CF is running American Eagle XM193 rounds through its rifles... I've literally had to pick out rounds with dents and other imperfections from cf ammunition.

I've seen rounds come apart due to the forces involved in just the bolt sliding, and all kinds of other crazy things that are already happening, all conveniently swept under the rug as "jams".  Which they are, technically.

I even remember one special guy that had an "incident" with a C6... won't get into details there either, but you can imagine.  Basically, yes, things happen with firearms.  They jam, they malfunction, they break apart.  Is that not something that is going to happen in battle? It's just a factor of dealing with firearms.  I don't agree with the sentiment that the forces shouldn't be doing things just because of what "might" happen.  If you're going to live like that, we might as well train troops not to get out of bed at all.

I also think that if a member is going to take the responsibility of going to the range and practicing in order to improve their marksmanship, THEY should be responsible if anything happens.  Basically, you want the privilege, you take the full responsibility of anything that happens while the firearm is under your care.  Don't want to accept it?  Don't take one out.  Simple as that.  The reward is better marksmanship.  It just makes sense in my mind.

Also, the rifles themselves could use some love, not going to get into the laundry list of problems there, because I don't want to come off as a complete you know what.  And as I said, all it would take is for the armory to approve the ammo the member was using... or... allow them to purchase rounds from the CF maybe?



			
				QV said:
			
		

> CAF members do not need an RPAL now, and you wouldn't in my suggestion either. Don't complicate this. Just being a qualified soldier should be the criteria as you are trained on the weapon already.



You're right, I was going with the most restrictive route, but I think that extra safety training with regards to transport and storage should be a factor there.  That's why I said RPAL, also I already have one, so it wouldn't matter to me.  ;D  but you're totally right, RPAL isn't really necessary at all to begin with.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Mar 2019)

Being in the army taught me 'How not to shoot a pistol", "How to shoot a rifle very well on a square range". Decent for the time SMG training. It also taught me that central storage is a incredibly bad idea.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Mar 2019)

Almost every armoury had it's own .22cal range in the day, when working Class B used to shoot on my lunch hour. I have a .22cal subcal for my AR, works great for drills and shooting out to 30m. If we eventually go G17, we should get the sub cal kits for those as well. Shooting used to be encouraged, with parades for the best shooters. Time to bring back that tradition. Every new Armoury must have a .22cal range.


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## Old Sweat (19 Mar 2019)

Our high school had a .22 range in the auditorium with individual traps that were hauled out and set up while we moved the chairs. I learned to shoot not too bad there, and it helped when I joined the army as I got crossed rifles first time out and added the crown on the second annual classification I fired before going on officer training.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Our high school had a .22 range in the auditorium with individual traps that were hauled out and set up while we moved the chairs. I learned to shoot not too bad there, and it helped when I joined the army as I got crossed rifles first time out and added the crown on the second annual classification I fired before going on officer training.



Every base should have an indoor handgun range my 45s growing moss ever since I moved, and no range within 20km that I can shoot them at.  I just don't have time to lug it all the way out to the country to shoot for a few hours and come all the way back to the city.  I used to shoot out at a very well set up civvie range at my old posting.

At this point, I'm beating a dead horse, but seriously... the government has all kinds of funding for LGBTQ rights, so some 40 year old transgender guy can share the same bathroom as my daughter...  That REALLY bugs me to no end.  Plus that $10 mil for Omar Khadr.  Could make a lot of Veterans happy with $10 million.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Mar 2019)

[quote author=TimneyTime]   Could make a lot of Veterans happy with $10 million.
[/quote]

Vetflakes would just complain its not 20 million.


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## RocketRichard (22 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> Every base should have an indoor handgun range my 45s growing moss ever since I moved, and no range within 20km that I can shoot them at.  I just don't have time to lug it all the way out to the country to shoot for a few hours and come all the way back to the city.  I used to shoot out at a very well set up civvie range at my old posting.
> 
> At this point, I'm beating a dead horse, but seriously... the government has all kinds of funding for LGBTQ rights, so some 40 year old transgender guy can share the same bathroom as my daughter...  That REALLY bugs me to no end.  Plus that $10 mil for Omar Khadr.  Could make a lot of Veterans happy with $10 million.


Comparing LBGQT2 rights to having gun ranges on bases. Huh?


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## Remius (22 Mar 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> That'll never work.
> For starters members technically aren't allowed to even use aftermarket slings on their C7s - CAF issue only.
> 
> Members would run shitty surplus ammo or hot hand-loaded ammo, first gun that blows up would shut everything down.
> ...



There is a bigger cultural issue as well. 

Canada does not like to have armed soldiers out and about.  They want them isolated on bases and specific areas.  They don't want them running around on their own with government issued weapons and government issued ammo regardless of how qualified they are. 

No Legions are allowed in Rome.


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## SeaKingTacco (22 Mar 2019)

Timneytime,

Every single one of your posts here in the past 3 days that you have been a member at army.ca has turned political, regardless of the subject.

It makes me wonder who you are and what your motives are.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Mar 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Timneytime,
> 
> Every single one of your posts here in the past 3 days that you have been a member at army.ca has turned political, regardless of the subject.
> 
> It makes me wonder who you are and what your motives are.



I had the same feeling. Definitely a pattern.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I had the same feeling. Definitely a pattern.



Correlation is not causation.  I guess I've just been charged up over recent developments, and my base ideologies lay heavily with Conservative ideologies that I feel are being slighted.

Is there a problem with expressing speech freely?


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Timneytime,
> 
> Every single one of your posts here in the past 3 days that you have been a member at army.ca has turned political, regardless of the subject.
> 
> It makes me wonder who you are and what your motives are.



I sense that discussing politics bothers you.  I, on the other hand, enjoy expressing my political views, and exercising my free speech.

Without being too judgy, I feel like your response is an attempt to squash opposition to views that you might hold, which is equally as ugly as questioning my motives.


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## garb811 (22 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime:

I suggest you take the opportunity you now have to closely review the guidelines put in place for posting on this private site, particularly:



> You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, racist, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.



Posting here is a privilege, not a right. Please remember that and post accordingly in the future. 

*Milnet.ca Staff*


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## Jarnhamar (22 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> Correlation is not causation.  I guess I've just been charged up over recent developments, and my base ideologies lay heavily with Conservative ideologies that I feel are being slighted.
> 
> Is there a problem with expressing speech freely?



You're peeking at your cards while you're sitting at the table. Little too eager, gave your hand away.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

Alright, well I apologize for being inflammatory.


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## SeaKingTacco (22 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> I sense that discussing politics bothers you.  I, on the other hand, enjoy expressing my political views, and exercising my free speech.
> 
> Without being too judgy, I feel like your response is an attempt to squash opposition to views that you might hold, which is equally as ugly as questioning my motives.



Gotcha. Because there is a clear link between LBTQ2 rights and Sig P225 pistols, huh?

Just go away.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Gotcha. Because there is a clear link between LBTQ2 rights and Sig P225 pistols, huh?
> 
> Just go away.



Clearly I've touched a nerve.

Since the inception of message boards, other topics get brought up within the title topic, generally being considered "off topic".  I get it.

I already publicly apologized, and I'm afraid I won't be going away unless the powers that be make that decision.  I'm perfectly entitled to my opinions, and I won't be changing them any time soon.

Seeing as how expressing inflammatory opinions seems to be frowned upon here, I have already agreed to temper my comments.

Have a nice day.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> You're peeking at your cards while you're sitting at the table. Little too eager, gave your hand away.



Thanks for understanding.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

For the record, firearms are a pretty huge political issue.


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## JesseWZ (22 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> I sense that discussing politics bothers you.  I, on the other hand, enjoy expressing my political views, and exercising my free speech.



I would just like to point out one thing, your right to "free speech" is not as expansive as you think. First, it only guarantees a right to speak free of _*state*_ interference - not an unalienable right to say whatever you want whenever you want without challenge. Any private person can shut down your speech and they would not be infringing on your Charter Rights. As this is a private site, the site owner can set the terms for the speech expressed here, and he has. 

Your options are to follow the guidelines (complying with the terms of the owner), _*or*_ after a potentially long and winding road/short bumpy one, your speech will be silenced.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Mar 2019)

The guy is new here. Some coaching by PM would probably be more effective.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Mar 2019)

Remius said:
			
		

> There is a bigger cultural issue as well.
> 
> Canada does not like to have armed soldiers out and about.  They want them isolated on bases and specific areas.  They don't want them running around on their own with government issued weapons and government issued ammo regardless of how qualified they are.
> 
> No Legions are allowed in Rome.



Yup. From the same crowd of crybabies that cry about airshows or bitch about heavy police presence then cry about lack of police when their bike is stolen.


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## mariomike (22 Mar 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> From the same crowd of crybabies that cry about airshows



People who reside in the vicinity of the CNE may not all be Airshow enthusiasts. 



			
				Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> bitch about heavy police presence then cry about lack of police when their bike is stolen.



I never heard of a Metro taxpayer who didn't want more police patrols, and emergency stations built, in their neighbourhood.

They are more likely to complain about resources being deployed into other neighbourhoods.

I can move my reply to the Emergency Services forum, or CNE Airshow discussion. This discussion went off-topic back around Reply #40.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Mar 2019)

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> Thanks for understanding.



I learned when to hold em and when to walk away  
But you're welcome. 

Hey there's a gun porn thread here, have you seen it? Would be great to see whatchya got.


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## TimneyTime (22 Mar 2019)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> I would just like to point out one thing, your right to "free speech" is not as expansive as you think. First, it only guarantees a right to speak free of _*state*_ interference - not an unalienable right to say whatever you want whenever you want without challenge. Any private person can shut down your speech and they would not be infringing on your Charter Rights. As this is a private site, the site owner can set the terms for the speech expressed here, and he has.
> 
> Your options are to follow the guidelines (complying with the terms of the owner), _*or*_ after a potentially long and winding road/short bumpy one, your speech will be silenced.



Not taking the bait, thank you.


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## Scott (22 Mar 2019)

That’s not bait. Enough now. 

Scott
Staff


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## Eaglelord17 (23 Mar 2019)

Back to the actual topic of the thread, for those interested in Sig P225s, a bunch of Swiss surplus P75s (also known as the P220s) have just hit the market. Basically the same gun except for the heel release magazine. Single stack 9rd capacity of 9mm, and they are for the most part basically new (mine I am pretty sure was either unissued or barely used, only handling marks were on the barrel). Not a terrible price (about 840$ after taxes and shipping), and mine came with the pistol, magazine, and a holster. 

They have some interesting military history (or at least the Swiss military history is fascinating to me). Plus with a big Swiss cross in shield on the slide how could you go wrong?


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Mar 2019)

which company? Because I need another Sig like I need a hole in my.........oh look new Sig


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## Eaglelord17 (25 Mar 2019)

Tradeex has some,
Weimajack on CGN has some

Personally I bought mine from Weimajack and I was more than happy with it, but the option for a formal store through Tradeex still exists. If you go the Tradeex route I would message them first just to 100% verify that it is Swiss issued (if that's what you want) as a few that came in don't have the Swiss cross on it.


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## NavyShooter (26 Mar 2019)

Went to the US for the weekend with the family - ended up stopping at the Sig Academy by accident...didn't buy anything, but it was a neat spot to look around in for 20 minutes!


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## Journeyman (26 Mar 2019)

NavyShooter said:
			
		

> ... ended up stopping at the Sig Academy by accident...


I once 'claimed' to have bought a second Harley the same way.  It was just too good a deal to resist.  ;D

/Sig tangent


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## NavyShooter (27 Mar 2019)

Honestly - it was an accident.  I saw the sign on the side of the highway as we were driving by, and I needed a break...timing was right.

Kind of like the time we were driving through DC on the way in from visiting the Air and Space museum...and happened to find the NRA museum...again, a happy coincidence, and truly, not planned.

Really.


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