# Hurricane or Spitfire? Remembrance Day confusion



## MarkOttawa (10 Nov 2006)

A letter sent today to the _Ottawa Citizen_:



> I'm confused. The story, "CF-18 jets, vintage aircraft to fly over war memorial" (City section, Nov. 10),
> http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/city/story.html?id=984e1718-79ee-4126-ac5d-efa4fe1c1211
> 
> shows a photo of an aircraft that is called a "Hurricane Spitfire" in the caption. Now there is a Hawker Hurricane fighter, and there is a Supermarine Spitfire fighter, but there is no such thing as a "Hurricane Spitfire".
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Astrodog (10 Nov 2006)

So you're saying the 'Hurricane Spitfire' didn't defeat the German 'Focke Wolfe Messershmit' for air supremacy over the skies of England?


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## karl28 (10 Nov 2006)

Ya gotta love the media LOL now that story put a smile on my face LOL  ;D


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## K225 (10 Nov 2006)

Since Mike Potter owns a Spitfie Mk IV (the aircraft in the picture) a Hurricane MkIV, and a Mustang IV (actually a P51D) and he has flown al three together we'll just have to go down to the ceremony and see won't we!
You see that screw up in the article will give you something to look forward to!


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## MarkOttawa (10 Nov 2006)

Astrodog:  As the Fw 190 did not enter service until 1941,
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200010/ai_n8925541

I'm afraid there actually weren't any "'Focke Wolfe Messershmit" for the "Hurricane Spitfires" to take on during the Battle of Britain! 

Mark
Ottawa


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## daftandbarmy (10 Nov 2006)

Here's an old model maker geek talking - I betcha it's a P 51B Mustang. Early variant with an Allison engine, before they tossed that junk aside and upgraded to a Rolls Royce Merlin and swept the skies clean of the Hun!


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## MarkOttawa (10 Nov 2006)

daftandbarmy: Actually, with the bubble canopy, most likely this:



> The RAF assigned the name Mustang IV to the ‘D’ model and Mustang IVA to ‘K’ models.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustanghttp://www.olympicflightmuseum.com/aircraft_gallery/p51d_mustang.htm

Mark
Ottawa


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## daftandbarmy (10 Nov 2006)

P51 B/C - Malcom canopy? What say you?

http://www.flightjournal.com/plane_profiles/p-51_mustang/drawing_p-51b-c_mustang_III.asp


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## MarkOttawa (10 Nov 2006)

daftandbarmy: Nope.  The 'Stang Vintage Wings has is with a straight sliding bubble, not a Malcolm.  Clearly a Mark IV in British terms.
http://www.vintagewings.ca/inside.html

On RAF planes with the Malcolm:
http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/01/stuff_eng_p51late.htm



> Mustang Mk. III
> 
> The RAF equivalent to the USAAF P-51B/C was known as the Mustang III. The RAF ultimately received 274 P-51Bs and 626 P-51Cs.
> 
> ...



On the Mark IV:
http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/ustypes/ustypes.htm



> Mark IV The NA-104 was similar to the USAAF P-51D and had a slightly more powerful version of the Packard Merlin and more importantly a tear-drop canopy. To improve longitudinal stability a dorsal fin was fitted at an early stage in production and the armament was changed to six .50 in guns in the wing. The Mark IV (and Mark IVA) joined units operating the earlier Mark III as aircraft became available; some units operated both versions.



Lots on bubbles here:
http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51variants/P-51D.shtml

Mark
Ottawa


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## daftandbarmy (10 Nov 2006)

Egads, out-geeked again. I concede and humbly slink away for my first Friday beer....


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## K225 (11 Nov 2006)

The Vintage wings Mustang represents one flown by 442 Squadron (City of Vancouver) RCAF from April 1945 to August 1945.
It is not a commonly known fact that 442 Squadron RCAF flew one of the last operational missions in the European theatre of the Second World War. It was on May 9, 1945, the day after VE day. It was to provide top cover during the liberation of the Channel Islands which were the only British territories to be occupied by the Germans in World War II.
There were some differences between the RAF MKIV Mustangs and the P51D. The MKIV had a different prop, slightly flattened canopy, the "D" was more rounded, and the MKIV had distinctive louvres on the nacelle. Suttle differences though they may be. The paint scheme on Potter's Mustang shows someone did their homework (thanks to Bob Swaddling and Michael Potter) as it represents aircraft "C" of that squadron. The MKIVs were owned by the RAF flown by RCAF pilots, however aircraft "C" was a P51D not a MKIV as the others were. It is my understanding that Potter's Mustang was a former RCAF P51D as operated postwar.
"Never forget!"
Steve McKenzie


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## condor888000 (11 Nov 2006)

I was at Beechwood, so I'm not sure what they did downtown, however we did have two flybys by Porter's P-51, despite the rain. Beautiful aircraft.


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## K225 (11 Nov 2006)

I find it interesting that the WWII aircraft did a flyby at the rememberance day ceremony yet the CF 18s didn't. Something to be said about the old fashion technology?


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## peaches (11 Nov 2006)

Actually, it was something to be said about the weather, Bagotville was socked in.  I was controlling a mission outta there earlier this morning, weather was hairy.


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## K225 (11 Nov 2006)

I know but it will give the vetrans something to brag about as they chew the rag!!


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## MarkOttawa (11 Nov 2006)

Meanwhile, the RAF is updating is Spitfire, Hurricane, Lancaster fleets.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/11/10/Navigation/177/210499/Pictures+UK+Royal+Air+Force+seeks+upgrade+for+Supermarine.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## K225 (11 Nov 2006)

We are blessed with warbirds in the region now beside Potter's collection there is Ed Russell's group and the Canadian Warplane Hertigae group from Hamilton. That leads me to wonder how their Lancaster is fairing, I made a donation back in 1979 towards the renovation and 27 years layer she is still flying. Amazing when you think he original Merlin's were only intended for 1000 hrs.


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## K225 (13 Nov 2006)

Earl Chapman the former Chief Engineer at Vintage Wings sent me the following information.  He did the majority of the research for the colours, markings, stenciling placement, overseas roundel design and all the other myriad of details surrounding the refinishing of this aircraft. Over the period of his research he was assisted by Randy Lutz, Steve Sauve and Ron Wylie. These individuals deserve credit for their assistance with the project as they provided rare photographs and offered advice on such things as the colour of the overseas roundel background and the size of the code letters. 

Earl is not one to wave his own flag, however he did a wonderful job and I should set the record straight. He should be proud of the work, and I know he is, on the Mustang refinishing and should  be given due credit.

Just goes to show you don't believe everything you see on the internet!
I have had the opportunity to work with some of the staff and volunteers at Vintage Wings and they are a great bunch of guys and gals. I noticed an excellent article on Vintage Wings Canada in a British aviation magazine currently at Chapters must pick it up.
Thanks Earl!
Steve


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