# Respect and Etiquette



## mover1 (10 Jul 2006)

So I went to see the new Pirates of the Caribbean Movie in New Minas yesterday. 

New Minas for those of you who don't know is near MTC Aldershot, and as we all know the summer training is in full swing for the reserves and cadets. 

where was I......oh yeah....I was at the show with my 10 year old daughter, along with the 200 other families who usually go to a Sunday matinee. (The movie was great by the way). When the movie ended and we were filing out of the theater, I saw a guy with a course T-shirt on it. The front had ARMY written on it in BIG CADPAT letters. On the back was the phrase "F@&ked up like a soup sandwich" with the regiments name in small print.  The individual was talking to another on how drunk he had got the night before.

Afterwards we went to Burger King. A few more guys from Aldershot (the Velcro watches and cadpat wallets gave you away) We were waiting in line and they were talking in the jocular manner that any of us talk in when on EX or course etc. However every second word was the F word.

I am not slaying anyone here. I like funny shirts like everyone else. I swear lots. Get drunk and fall down. But I do it only in certain company.  Therefore I ask all of you guys out there to please think of where you are going and dress appropriately, watch your language around the little ones, and please act accordingly when in the public eye.


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## HItorMiss (10 Jul 2006)

Hey Mover you should have told me you were in New Minas, I'm sitting in Kentville and Scott's Bay for the next 2 weeks.

My worst experience has always been with the reservist from Aldershot in the Summer, then again members of the West Novies are no prize...getting off Thursday training nights and going to the stone room to get drunk..in uniform!, did I mention a few times in DEU? not on remembrance day.

Anyway PM if you're up for a beer sometime.


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## Haggis (10 Jul 2006)

If anyone knows who the Camp SM is in Aldershot, you should direct him to this thread. Conduct of that sort is simply "not on".


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## reccecrewman (10 Jul 2006)

Before I go off on this, let me crystal clear - this isn't intended to start a Reg/Res flame war.  I have several friends in the Reserve who have spent considerable time in Petawawa and they don't apply to this at all so if you are a Reservist, don't take personal offence because this probably doesn't apply to you - it's intended to be directed at the young bucks who have accomplished nothing in their careers thus far except a trip to the QM to get kitted out.

I went with my family to Black Bear Beach on Saturday as it was the perfect day for it.  Apparently, lots of other families thought so too because it was fairly busy with lots of moms&dads tending to their wee ones running rampant along the beach and in the water.  Right smack in the centre of the beach was a picnic table with about 15 or so brand spanky new recruits.  For some reason, they felt compelled to try and impress the girls (most of whom were married and with their husbands anyway) with their language skills, which revolved around a few select colorful words.  They seemed oblivious to the 30 or so children running around them and were on the receiving end of several pointed looks from various mother hens who understandably so, didn't want their children hearing these words.  A couple of them also saw the need to harrass some guy who was with his wife and child by yelling some taunts his way - not too cool.  The guys trying to enjoy some family time and some young yahoos are bothering him.  The icing on the cake was a group of four of them trying to pick up some young girl who came for a swim, presumably from the campground as she was alone.  The girl looked 14 or 15 tops. (Which to me is a good indication her pops is probably at minimum, a Sergeant)

Finally, a woman had enough of the behavior and went over and told them to clean up the language and show some respect to the fact that there were numerous children about.  They bitched a bit to each other after she left about their rights to enjoy themselves on the beach too, and much to the credit of one of them - he told them to sort themselves out and watch their language.  Coming from one of their own, they seemed to have less problem with it and watched their language from that point on.  Thank you to the mystery woman and the young recruit who got his chums to knock it off.  

To the young troops full of p!ss & vinegar, please show some respect when you're visiting in Petawawa - this is our home where we live and raise our families, and with the fact that there isn't all that much to do in the first place, you can help out by not making one of our favorite places to take our families an unpleasant experience.

Regards

(As stated before - NOT intended to start a flame war, so please don't get all huffy if you're a Reservist.  I KNOW, this doesn't apply to 95% of you, but it only takes a few to spoil a nice thing, right?)


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## 2 Cdo (10 Jul 2006)

Unfortunately one cannot, like you said, blame all reservists. Instead I would point to the younger generation, IN GENERAL, as having less  than ideal manners! Not all of the younger generation acts like this, but it seems as if a good portion believe that they can do whatever,whenever they want, without considering others around them!


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## camochick (10 Jul 2006)

2 cdo, that is a vast generalization. People are people, jerks are jerks. Young, old, whatever. I deal with the public all the time and yeah I have young kids being arses, but I also have older people who think that age gives them the right to treat me like a piece of crap. I think in general there are just alot of jackasses out there.  >


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## reccecrewman (10 Jul 2006)

That is a valid point 2CDO, and as I stated, the statement(s) doesn't apply to nearly 100% of Reservists, but rather the select few.  Due to the fact that CFB Petawawa is home to 5 major combat arms Regiments & all the support Units, it is a VERY rare occassion that you could see this sort of behavior come from some young RCD or RCR newbies, because they know there will be somebody on the beach either in their Unit or is friends with somebody of significance in their Unit.  The Reg Force guys permanantly stationed here tend to save their idiocies (which our Reg guys have as well!) for the bars and barracks, not in family oriented places.

When I bring up the Reservists, it's the brand new young ones that as you stated, don't have much respect for anything and believe they can do what they want, not Reservist Corporals & above who know how to behave themselves and that there's a time & place for everything. 

Regards


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## Hot Lips (10 Jul 2006)

Sorry to hear of this lack of respect Reccecrewman...sigh...it is a sign of the times

There are more and more facilities becoming "family" only facilities.  
They do not allow singles and couples but only families...I believe this is a good thing in many ways.
I think there is a generation of people who are all about themselves...selfish...and they are going to act and talk the way "they" want too...unfortunately...they don't care who hears what they say or how they act...

I don't believe for a minute that this is just isolate of the reserves or military for that matter...as Mud always says...they were who they are before they ever joined the military at 18...

HL


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## reccecrewman (10 Jul 2006)

> 2 cdo, that is a vast generalization. People are people, jerks are jerks. Young, old, whatever. I deal with the public all the time and yeah I have young kids being arses, but I also have older people who think that age gives them the right to treat me like a piece of crap. I think in general there are just alot of jackasses out there.



It is a vast generalization, but he is very correct.  For the MOST part, this new generation of 17-23 year olds seem to have this sense of entitlement that didn't exist before.  When I came to the RCD 5 years ago, brand new Troopers didn't run their mouths off to Corporals.  You answered questions when you were asked and showed some deference to the senior guys.  You stood in the circle, listened to them tell their stories and laughed with the rest of the group at the punch lines.

Nowadays, I've seen young guys come in and start beaking off to Corporals ("You're just an overpaid Trooper!") and think that they're bigger than they are.  Now, I was lucky because the Army was transitioning in behavior when I came here, so Corporal's weren't dragging mouthy Troopers behind tanks and beating them, so my group that came in was merely told to shut the %$@! up and stay low, but the older guys can testify to how they handled the problem children in their day, and guess what? They usually weren't problems after that.  Nowadays, you can't sort a mouthy Trooper out like that without a heavy hand coming down on you from the Officers (In the form of a charge parade, followed by jail time for assault) because the Officers are following the directives laid out by their superiors.  Ergo, the little mouthy punks just keep coming in and thinking they're all that because they haven't been told otherwise.

Regards


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## Booked_Spice (10 Jul 2006)

This happens all the time and not just from the Military.

One incident here on Base which I will always remember. My Hubby was home on leave and we took our son for his first hair cut to the base barber shop. While the kids were getting their haircut the next hair dresser was swearing up a storm every 2ND word was f*** this and F*** that. Well my hubby he is not the quiet sort and he basically informed her in his demanding way that this was a place of business and she will not use that kind of language in front of his children which are 3 and at the time 10 maths. She was not too pleased with hubby but she did stop the foul language. He had 2 other employees thank him because I guess she does this all the time. Just to say the least I was disappointed to see the lack of professionalism.


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## 2 Cdo (10 Jul 2006)

camochick said:
			
		

> 2 cdo, that is a vast generalization. People are people, jerks are jerks. Young, old, whatever. I deal with the public all the time and yeah I have young kids being arses, but I also have older people who think that age gives them the right to treat me like a piece of crap. I think in general there are just alot of jackasses out there.  >



Apparently you missed the point about "not all of them". :


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## Gunner (10 Jul 2006)

*



			it only takes a few to spoil a nice thing, right?
		
Click to expand...

*
Reg, res, civ...I think this is what it all boils down to.


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## Sig_Des (10 Jul 2006)

Different kinds of behaviour are appropriate in different places.

If a bunch of Fresh guys want to laugh and swear it up and be boisterous, fine. Do it where there arent kids, over a beer at a bar.

Naturally, I don't like the Res argument, because I can think of many different groups that would behave like that, but, the important thing is, no matter who it is, they should be sorted out on the spot.


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## 392 (11 Jul 2006)

Reccecrewman - was this this past Saturday, or by chance the 3rd of July that this happened? The reason I ask is that some of the Reserve BMQ students on course that is being run by our unit had some "interaction" with the local authorities at Black Bear Beach on the 3rd, for the exact scenario you just laid out. 

Just wondering if maybe you had the date wrong, or if the same scenario played itself out a week later.....


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## reccecrewman (11 Jul 2006)

392,

I guess I have to say the same scenario played itself out again.......... I was in Ottawa visiting my daughter at the Ottawa General on the 3rd.  I am referring to Saturday, 8 July.  They may not be the same recruits you guys are running the BMQ for though. (God, I would hope not after dealing with authorities a week prior)  The RCD are also running a BMQ/SQ course for all Armoured Reservists from 31,32 & 33 CBG's, not to mention I'd lay some money down saying the RCR are also running similar courses.  I had correspondance with a MWO who wasn't happy with the scene that played out, and he said he'd bring it to the attention of the ARC CSM.  The end result will be ALL recruits in Pet will receive a talking to about their behavior on and around CFB Petawawa, and bring to their attention that no matter where they are in this area, there will be military eyes watching them.  I'm happy with that as I'm sure that will rectify the problem.  They're all just young kids who are unfamiliar with the military and how things work and it should serve as a wake up call to them.



> Reg, res, civ...I think this is what it all boils down to.



Touche  8)  You are quite correct in that summation - hence why I stated clearly from the beginning, it was NOT intended to generalize all ResForces.  There are people of this type in all walks, but at least when they're military, there are ways of sorting it out effectively.  If you're on a public beach and the same scenario plays out, they could simply tell you to go $#!@ your hat and then what?  Anyhow, I'm just hoping they heed the warning they have coming to them to save themselves alot of BS.

Regards


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Jul 2006)

Having spent time in barracks with reservists on summer courses, I can agree that very often some young reservists do not seem to have any concept of picking up after themselves or tidying communal areas. On my last course in Borden there were a fair number of "older" reservists (a lot remusters to the clerk trade, for example) and so our living conditions were excellent.  But by the same taken, in the mid 90s when staying at a hostel in Estes Park with our regimental band, we were shocked at the condition the Scots Guards - a British regular force pipe band in which the members were soldiers first, musicians second - kept their living quarters and especially our communal washrooms. They weren't an especially "young" organization.  

In short, there are plenty of clean "mature" soldiers, and a fair share of pigs as well. Age or employment has little to do with it, you find all types in all situations.


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## mover1 (11 Jul 2006)

I had a similar incident this weekend in the Annapolis Valley.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47084.0.html
Feel free to merge my thread with this one.

I think we should include etiquette training in a BMQ, after all we teach them how to dress, walk, shave and their trade.  Why not a class on how to act in public...


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## Cpl4Life (11 Jul 2006)

Excellent idea on the course on how to act in public.  I feel in or out of uniform you are setting an example not only for the public but your fellow soldiers.  I'm proud of my job and I am here to serve my country, not get a paycheque, spend it on booze and make myself look like an @ss.  I outgrew that in my late teens thank god.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (11 Jul 2006)

I have had lots of similar types of incidents happen to me like the first one on this thread. In Pet in the Canex supermarket line (91)when my kids were young I had two young guys from a regiment that will remain nameless cursing a blue streak and when I asked them politely to stop they said "Who the F do you think you are?" When I showed them my ID and asked them for their names they got very sheepish and disappeared quickly....I think we all have to start taking responsibility for this...if we let it pass it will only get worse.........."Never Pass a Fault!"


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## Hayrick (11 Jul 2006)

What I don't understand is that if you do not treat others with decency and respect how do you expect to get help later on.  What I am talking about is those Pte's or Spr's that think they know everything.  At an inopportune time they are saying and doing something that is disrespectful.  You tell them to cool it and they look at you and start up again a little later on.  Keep on doing this and people will be less likely to help you later on.  There are times when no matter what you help out, but other times where you know of a usefull piece of advice which would make their life a lot easier is withheld because of their attitude earlier.  "What goes around comes around"  could sum it up nicely.

CHIMO!


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## simysmom99 (13 Jul 2006)

I think you are right about this happening everywhere.   It doesn't matter what you do, military or civie.  No one is being taught manners anymore, how to respect people, how to behave.  It all boils down to what is going on at home, what is acceptable at work, on course.  We all set an example for what the Canadian Military stands for, either in uniform or out of uniform.


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## childs56 (13 Jul 2006)

Well I am going to add in here a little bit. I was attending a memorial for one of ours who died a while ago. 
At the church I have never in my life heard so much fowl language being used. It seemed as If I was in the field practicing section attacks or what not. 
As I looked around I noticed it was more then the new privates, it was the WO's Sgt's, Cpls and Ptes. 
Although they may not have been regular church people as I am neither, the level of respect not only for the church but the one who died should have been there. 
To me it is a epedemic with in the system. Poor leadership and lack of discipline and true military values has lead us down this road. The changing of leadership courses to be management courses, all the being nice and friendly to persons has taken it's toll on us. 

I once remember a Sgt Major whom put most to shame when it came to the F word. We were waiting in line for fast food, one of the other older guys said the F word once the Sgt Major shot that look that only they can have and then in one of those bone chilling voices, watch your language there are women and children folk amongst us. 
That older Cpl was the duty guy for the weekend.


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## 2 Cdo (13 Jul 2006)

CTD said:
			
		

> Well I am going to add in here a little bit. I was attending a memorial for one of ours who died a while ago.
> At the church I have never in my life heard so much fowl language being used. It seemed as If I was in the field practicing section attacks or what not.
> As I looked around I noticed it was more then the new privates, it was the WO's Sgt's, Cpls and Ptes.
> Although they may not have been regular church people as I am neither, the level of respect not only for the church but the one who died should have been there.
> ...



Exactly! There is a time and place for foul language, the church not being one of them.(Neither is the supper table with ALL your relatives! ) I can curse with the best of them but I somehow find the strength to tone the language down outside of the military.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Jul 2006)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Exactly! There is a time and place for foul language, the church not being one of them.(Neither is the supper table with ALL your relatives! ) I can curse with the best of them but I somehow find the strength to tone the language down outside of the military.



Discipline is another word for strength, I think; you obviously have it - some of those described in this thread obviously do not. More disciplined soldiers beat tougher soldiers on the battlefield all the time, as per that whole 50 Romans could beat 500 barbarians thing.


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## Cpl4Life (14 Jul 2006)

I also wonder why guys think they have to swear so much?  It usually doesn't bother me, except when guys in uniform are out in public, carrying on like children that have just learned their first swear words.

What do these fellows wives and girlfriends think?  If I came home swearing half as much as some of the losers around base, I'm sure my wife would feed me soap for supper.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Jul 2006)

My favourite saying " profanity is the inability of a feeble mind to fully express itself."


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## 2 Cdo (14 Jul 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> My favourite saying " profanity is the inability of a feeble mind to fully express itself."



While I generally agree with your statement there are times where an extremely colourful string of curses directed at an individual who is in dire need of a jacking can be a beautiful thing! ;D


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## NavComm (14 Jul 2006)

mover1 said:
			
		

> I think we should include etiquette training in a BMQ, after all we teach them how to dress, walk, shave and their trade.  Why not a class on how to act in public...



There is a class called "Dress and Deportment." Some people must of slept through the 'deportment' portion.

IMO the problem is that if some troop wants to go out and act like a hooligan or be a slob there is little that can or will be done about it and he/she knows it. Laws nowadays prevent corporal punishment at home and in the military and far too many people in the chain of command just can't be bothered to address behaviour issues.



			
				CTD said:
			
		

> To me it is a epedemic with in the system. Poor leadership and lack of discipline and true military values has lead us down this road. The changing of leadership courses to be management courses, all the being nice and friendly to persons has taken it's toll on us.



That's for sure.



			
				Cpl4Life said:
			
		

> I also wonder why guys think they have to swear so much?  It usually doesn't bother me, except when guys in uniform are out in public, carrying on like children that have just learned their first swear words.
> 
> What do these fellows wives and girlfriends think?  If I came home swearing half as much as some of the losers around base, I'm sure my wife would feed me soap for supper.



Unfortunately it's not just the guys. I can swear like the best of them but some people just go too far. There was a girl at my bmq who I referred to as 'the swearing girl'. Her language was so offensive I couldn't stand being around her. I found out later she is married with a toddler! I can't imagine what that child is going to be like when it grows up.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Jul 2006)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> While I generally agree with your statement there are times where an extremely colourful string of curses directed at an individual who is in dire need of a jacking can be a beautiful thing! ;D



Totally agree, but when the recipients here it coming from someone who usually doesn't swear or yell, the "beautiful thing" gets even prettier!!!


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