# Mandatory to live on campus in University?



## Bellus88

Ive been thinking of trying out for the Basic Officer Qualification once I get a University acceptance later in 2009 so I can prove to the Canadian forces Ive been accepted. Id prefer to go to a civilian university. On this web site it says it's mandatory to live on campus in a University for the Regular Officer Training plan. 

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp


I really don't want to live on campus in University because of rent costs and it's not really my type of atmosphere either. Id prefer to live at home and attend a university since I got a basement apartment anyway with no rent costs. Im going to apply to UTM (University of Toronto Mississauga), is it really mandatory to live on campus? Aren't their exceptions? UTM is close to my house I can get their easily. I don't see why living on campus is a must. 

Im interested in Military police,JAG and maybe Public relations. My issue is what do you have to get a degree in? I am very interested in History and would like to get a BA in that, possibly minoring in Justice/Criminology if necessary.


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## ARMY_101

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp said:
			
		

> Regular Officer Training Plan
> 
> The Regular Officer Training Plan begins with academic training at the Royal Military College of Canada or at another Canadian university, followed by full time military service. Under this plan, the cost of tuition, uniforms, books, instruments and other essential fees are borne by the Department of National Defence. Medical and dental care, are also provided. Officer Cadets receive a monthly salary and are responsible for costs such as lodgings and meals. Living on campus is compulsory.
> 
> Upon successful completion of the academic and military programs, you will be awarded your degree and granted a commission as an officer in the Canadian Forces. Graduates of the ROTP are obliged to serve a minimum of five years in the Regular (full time) component of the Canadian Forces.



Living on base at RMC is mandatory for ROTP as far as I understand it.  If you're just going for a degree though I don't believe it's a requirement to live on campus.


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## leroi

Bellus88 said:
			
		

> Ive been thinking of trying out for the Basic Officer Qualification once I get a University acceptance later in 2009 so I can prove to the Canadian forces Ive been accepted. Id prefer to go to a civilian university. On this web site it says it's mandatory to live on campus in a University for the Regular Officer Training plan.
> 
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp
> 
> 
> I really don't want to live on campus in University because of rent costs and it's not really my type of atmosphere either. Id prefer to live at home and attend a university since I got a basement apartment anyway with no rent costs. Im going to apply to UTM (University of Toronto Mississauga), is it really mandatory to live on campus? Aren't their exceptions? UTM is close to my house I can get their easily. I don't see why living on campus is a must.
> 
> Im interested in Military police,JAG and maybe Public relations. My issue is what do you have to get a degree in? I am very interested in History and would like to get a BA in that, possibly minoring in Justice/Criminology if necessary.



I can't speak on CF rules because I'm a civilian, but I currently know one ROTP student at the University of Guelph who is not living on campus. As you say, it's cheaper off campus (and it's quieter too). Many first year students like to live on campus for the first year 'til they are accustomed to their new surroundings.  By second year, they often move off-campus altogether. My guess would be that the CF allows some flexibility--just a  guess though.


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## tabernac

ARMY_101 said:
			
		

> Living on base at RMC is mandatory for ROTP as far as I understand it.  If you're just going for a degree though I don't believe it's a requirement to live on campus.



Living on campus is NOT mandatory for RMC ROTP or civvy U ROTP. RMC 4th years currently have the "option" of living off, however its being discouraged in the next few years. Married and SOME common law RMC cadets also have the "option" of living off. We'll see how it works with Champlain under renovations, and the arrival of the CMR 2nd years on top of the RMC 1st years for school year '09-10.

Civvy U, living on campus is NOT mandatory. I don't know why that forces.ca site doesn't differentiate between civvyU or RMC. A friend of mine is currently Civvy U and is not on campus, but living at home.

And next time, for the sake of actually knowing what you're talking about, stay in your lane.


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## ARMY_101

Understood.  I was saying from the description posted above of the ROTP course at RMC it says that living on base/campus is compulsory.


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## tabernac

ARMY_101 said:
			
		

> Understood.  I was saying from the description posted above of the ROTP course at RMC it says that living on base/campus is compulsory.



You should know not to regurgitate information mindlessly, because that info might be wrong.


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## Strike

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> You should know not to regurgitate information mindlessly, because that info might be wrong.



RELAX!  Honest question, honest answer, based on what CF info sites have provided.

Bellus88,

I had an OJT OCDT working for me who lived off campus at least for his last 2 years.  Not sure about the time prior, but it is possible.


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## The Dunnminator

It is not mandatory, I live off campus.


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## Bellus88

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Living on campus is NOT mandatory for RMC ROTP or civvy U ROTP. RMC 4th years currently have the "option" of living off, however its being discouraged in the next few years. Married and SOME common law RMC cadets also have the "option" of living off. We'll see how it works with Champlain under renovations, and the arrival of the CMR 2nd years on top of the RMC 1st years for school year '09-10.
> 
> Civvy U, living on campus is NOT mandatory. I don't know why that forces.ca site doesn't differentiate between civvyU or RMC. A friend of mine is currently Civvy U and is not on campus, but living at home.
> 
> And next time, for the sake of actually knowing what you're talking about, stay in your lane.



Well when I get my University acceptance and if I pass Basic Officer training, I would really want to live off campus going to a civy University. Ill be going in 2009. So it's being discouraged in 2009 now? I just want to be a civilian for the next 4 years in more familiar surroundings.


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## Strike

Bellus88 said:
			
		

> Well when I get my University acceptance and if I pass Basic Officer training, I would really want to live off campus going to a civy University. Ill be going in 2009. So it's being discouraged in 2009 now? I just want to be a civilian for the next 4 years in more familiar surroundings.



It's being discouraged for the RMC-types, not the Civvie-U types.


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## SupersonicMax

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Married and SOME common law RMC cadets also have the "option" of living off.



Common Law and Married is the same to the eyes of the CF.  So all common Law Cadets have the option of living off, if all Married Cadets have the option.



			
				cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> And next time, for the sake of actually knowing what you're talking about, stay in your lane.



Same applies to you.


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## Lumber

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Living on campus is NOT mandatory for RMC ROTP or civvy U ROTP. RMC 4th years currently have the "option" of living off, however its being discouraged in the next few years.



Discouraged is a very poor choice of words. Next year, 100 4th years will be allowed the _option_ of living off. They must submit a memo, and that memo could rejected. There is no guarantee that they will be permitted to live off. It could always end up that only 90 4th years end up living off, even though 125 applied (for example). If you are failing courses, for example, they may deny your application. 

The Cmdt and his COC have repeatedly expressed that they do not like cadets living off, but with the shortage of rooms there is simply no other option; otherwise, living on would be 100% mandatory (excluding married and common law couples) at RMC.


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## tabernac

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Common Law and Married is the same to the eyes of the CF.  So all common Law Cadets have the option of living off, if all Married Cadets have the option.



Try explaining that to 2 of the common laws I have in my Sqn. They do not have the option as they have not been common law for 2 or more years. Maybe it was that way when you were at the college, but not anymore.



			
				SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Same applies to you.



Debatable.



			
				Lumber said:
			
		

> *Discouraged is a very poor choice of words.* Next year, 100 4th years will be allowed the _option_ of living off. They must submit a memo, and *that memo could rejected*. *There is no guarantee that they will be permitted to live off*. It could always end up that only 90 4th years end up living off, even though 125 applied (for example). If you are failing courses, for example, they may deny your application.
> 
> *The Cmdt and his COC have repeatedly expressed that they do not like cadets living off*, but with the shortage of rooms there is simply no other option; otherwise, living on would be 100% mandatory (excluding married and common law couples) at RMC.



Bolded emphasis are my own. I would call that discouraged, but in the end its just semantics.

Edit: Clarity.


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## SupersonicMax

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Try explaining that to 2 of the common laws I have in my Sqn. They do not have the option as they have not been common law for 2 or more years. Maybe it was that way when you were at the college, but not anymore.



Are they actually common law or are they TRYING to get the status?  In order to be common law, you eighter need to have a child or reside at the same address for 1 or more year.  RMC Time in the shacks doesn'T count.

If they actually are, I would bring the point up to the CoC as it is discrimination and to the eyes of the CF, there is no difference in being Common Law or Married.


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## tabernac

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Are they actually common law or are they TRYING to get the status?  In order to be common law, you eighter need to have a child or reside at the same address for 1 or more year.  RMC Time in the shacks doesn'T count.
> 
> If they actually are, I would bring the point up to the CoC as it is discrimination and to the eyes of the CF, there is no difference in being Common Law or Married.



I agree with you, it is discrimination. However, I was told there was an incident last year involving someone who was common law. This person ended the relationship, and therefor his common law status, but wanted to remain living off. Ended up going out with another girl, and was in turn found out by the College for cheating the system, and I would assume the College is now trying to protect itself by implementing the 2 year pre-req.


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## SupersonicMax

How is it different from a married guy that ends his marriage but wants to stay off base, end up with an other girl?  

No difference.  I suspect there are other reasons than just being common law.


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## Bellus88

From reading some of these posts Im getting the impression you can go to a Civilian Uni only if your in a relationship living with someone. 

Assuming I pass Basic officer qualification and I get my University acceptence, what I wanted to do was just stay off base getting my degree at a Civi University. It is simple as that but their seems to be a lot of confusion here, would I be able to do this assuming I get all that I listed above?


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## SupersonicMax

You will know if you go to RMC or CivU before you go to Basic Training.  You don't need to be married/common law to go to CivU.  The discussion about living off campus only if you're married/common law applies only to RMC cadets.  CivUs do whatever they want.


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## tabernac

Bellus88 said:
			
		

> From reading some of these posts Im getting the impression you can go to a Civilian Uni only if your in a relationship living with someone.
> 
> Assuming I pass Basic officer qualification and I get my University acceptence, what I wanted to do was just stay off base getting my degree at a Civi University. It is simple as that but their seems to be a lot of confusion here, would I be able to do this assuming I get all that I listed above?



Not confusing, so much as lots of information getting tossed around.

Yes, you can go to a CivvyU under the ROTP program, you apply to that university, and when you apply under ROTP, you put "CivvyU." If the recruiting centre comes back saying "Hey! You've been accepted for CivvyU," then you only need acceptance to the CivvyU of your choice. Or vice-versa.


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## medaid

YOU need to got DIRECTLY to a CFRC/D and speak with them. STOP trying to get answers from a group of individuals on line, that may, or may not know the full gist of what's going on. The best way to get your answer is to get it from the horse's mouth. CFRC/D is the place to go.


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## SupersonicMax

MedTech said:
			
		

> YOU need to got DIRECTLY to a CFRC/D and speak with them. STOP trying to get answers from a group of individuals on line, that may, or may not know the full gist of what's going on. The best way to get your answer is to get it from the horse's mouth. CFRC/D is the place to go.



From personnal experience, CFRCs don't know the details of the day-to-day life of different programs.  So, coming here and hearing it from people that are living it/lived it recently is probably the best thing to do...


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## medaid

The OP's question was something that a recruiter at CFRC/D could have easily answered. The OP never asked about Common Law or Marriage status cadets in RMC. That was something that was dragged in to muddy the waters.


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## KingKikapu

A friend of mine was a NCM combat engineer for some years before deciding to go for a comission.  He entered into the same academic program as I at a civilian university and never lived on campus.


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## Welshy

The straight answer to the question is that ROTP civy u does not and never has required anyone to live on campus.


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## infamous_p

It is <b>not</b> mandatory to live on campus if you're attending a civilian university. You are solely responsible for your own accommodations, it is ultimately your decision whether you decide to live on campus or not. You will, however, receive PLD (Post-Living Differential, which is essentially a sum of money for "cost-of-living" assistance) for the specific area within which you reside during the year. Your PLD entitlement may be more or it may be less, depending on where you choose to live. For example, if you (like you mentioned) decided to go to U of T and lived downtown Toronto in the city core, your PLD entitlement would be _substantially_ higher than if you were to live on the outskirts of the city (i.e., Richmond Hill)... simply because the cost-of-living is (in most cases) much higher in the city than it is outside of the city.


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## Marshall

infamous_p said:
			
		

> It is <b>not</b> mandatory to live on campus if you're attending a civilian university. You are solely responsible for your own accommodations, it is ultimately your decision whether you decide to live on campus or not. You will, however, receive PLD (Post-Living Differential, which is essentially a sum of money for "cost-of-living" assistance) for the specific area within which you reside during the year. Your PLD entitlement may be more or it may be less, depending on where you choose to live. For example, if you (like you mentioned) decided to go to U of T and lived downtown Toronto in the city core, your PLD entitlement would be _substantially_ higher than if you were to live on the outskirts of the city (i.e., Richmond Hill)... simply because the cost-of-living is (in most cases) much higher in the city than it is outside of the city.



I was under the impression it came out of your wages. Thanks for that clarification since I may get put in one if not RMC (If ROTP at all, of course).


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## chris_log

Marshall said:
			
		

> I was under the impression it came out of your wages. Thanks for that clarification since I may get put in one if not RMC (If ROTP at all, of course).



Accomodations does come out of your pay, just like everyone else. PLD is an extra bit of money DND gives you if you live in a designated area, to help cover increased costs of living. To my knowledge, there is no area in which the PLD receieved entirely covers rent for 'standard' accomodations (i.e. an apartment). It exists just to help cover the cost of living in your area. If you live on base (i.e. in the shacks), you do not receive PLD. 

Your starting salary as an OCdt (going to civvie-u) is just enough to cover rent on a single room, groceries and other essentials. Not much else. Same with the RMC folks, after all their deductions they are left with a little bit of 'pocket change'. My advice, start saving or have a civvie part time job lined up on the side if you want to 'live it up' in any way. 

I can't believe it took two pages to answer the original question, until infamous_p gave the clearest answer so far.


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## dwalter

Be prepared to go through a lot of hoops to get yourself a civvie job on the side. It has to be authorized by the SEM, otherwise they won't let you work part time. Usually the only way you can get the go ahead is if you are living in a high cost city like Vancouver and are left with 50$ a month coming in after rent and food, which is not a long shot here where rents can start at 700 and 800$ a month, and that's in the not-so-wonderful parts of the city too.


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## Drag

Toronto does have enough PLD to cover rent...  With PLD in my last year ( almost 3 years ago) I was pulling in about 33K, which was more than enough as an university student


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## chris_log

Intelligent Design said:
			
		

> Be prepared to go through a lot of hoops to get yourself a civvie job on the side. It has to be authorized by the SEM, otherwise they won't let you work part time. Usually the only way you can get the go ahead is if you are living in a high cost city like Vancouver and are left with 50$ a month coming in after rent and food, which is not a long shot here where rents can start at 700 and 800$ a month, and that's in the not-so-wonderful parts of the city too.



Really? I told my SEM at our annual meeting that I had secured a civvie side job working security, and he said 'go for it'. Easiest thing I've ever done in the CF, to be honest. 



> Toronto does have enough PLD to cover rent...  With PLD in my last year ( almost 3 years ago) I was pulling in about 33K, which was more than enough as an university student



How much PLD were you making? And were you getting normal OCdt pay? Without PLD an OCdt only makes around 12 000 a year or so (off the top of m head an OCdt clears around 1000 or so a month without PLD). Just curious, as I had a buddy who was getting T.O. PLD (can't remember what zone, it was the one for the downtown core) as well as Pte pay (ex-reserve service) and lived right downtown and said it was a stretch (mind you, he wasn't living in the ghetto either).


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## Drag

Piper said:
			
		

> How much PLD were you making? And were you getting normal OCdt pay? Without PLD an OCdt only makes around 12 000 a year or so (off the top of m head an OCdt clears around 1000 or so a month without PLD). Just curious, as I had a buddy who was getting T.O. PLD (can't remember what zone, it was the one for the downtown core) as well as Pte pay (ex-reserve service) and lived right downtown and said it was a stretch (mind you, he wasn't living in the ghetto either).



I think it was about $1400 base pay and about 1600 in PLD for the downtown core.  It went up from about 1300 suddenly while I was in my last year.


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## chris_log

D3 said:
			
		

> I think it was about $1400 base pay and about 1600 in PLD for the downtown core.  It went up from about 1300 suddenly while I was in my last year.



Ah, seen. Do you know what you were being paid as (i.e. did you join off the street or CT)?


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## Drag

Fresh of the street... OCdt, incentive level 3 by fourth year.


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## chris_log

D3 said:
			
		

> Fresh of the street... OCdt, incentive level 3 by fourth year.



Gotcha.


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## trentonmilwife

First of all when you are a Civvy-U student the only thing that the military is truly concerned about (obviously there is more but the jist of it is):
1. You enroll in full time studies and submit the tuition claim
2. you submit claim for Textbooks, PP&S (up to the annual limit)
3. You do the EXPRESS Test by 31 Dec of that year
4. You pass all your courses, you don't drop a course without permission, you don't change academic programs without permission etc
5. You don't get into any legal or financial problems.
6. All medical services are to be used in accordance to the medical policies
7. Need leave passes to leave the geographical area

As a civvy-u student you are responsible for(obviously there is more but the jist of it is):
1. Your housing, your food, your costs, you pay it, arrange for it, buy it etc
2. Submitting claims to your ULO, booking your EXPRESS test, submitting leave passes
3. Going to class, pass your courses, and be available for Military training in the summer periods.

The SEM does not care whether you live at home, in residence or in a rented apartment, your friends basement etc. They don't care how you eat, these costs are your choice, and you pay them, they are not deducted from your pay check.

Regarding having a part-time job, it is up to the discretion of the SEM and ULO. Many students do it, just make sure you clear it first and make sure it does not impede on your scholastic abilities.

Regarding PLD, here are the rates from CANFORGEN 061/08
IAW REF A THE FOLLOWING RATES ARE EFFECTIVE 1 APR 08, READ IN  COLUMNS: PLD AREA, FULL RATE:

ALDERGROVE, 418, 
CALGARY, 711, 
CAMBRIDGE, 71, 
COLD LAKE, 319,
EDMONTON, 684,
GUELPH, 167, 
HALIFAX, 631,
HAMILTON, 414,
KAMLOOPS/KELOWNA, 525, 
KITCHENER, 62, 
LETHBRIDGE, 234, 
MEAFORD, 77, 
MEDICINE HAT, 145, 
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE, 505, 
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE, 376, 
MOOSE JAW, 284, 
NANAIMO, 75, 
QUEBEC CITY/VALCARTIER, 117, 
RED DEER, 327, 
REGINA, 62, 
SASKATOON, 382, 
SEPT-ILES, 107, 
ST JOHNS, 149, 
STRATFORD, 82,
TORONTO AREA ONE, 1485, 
TORONTO AREA TWO, 506, 
TORONTO AREA THREE, 522, 
TORONTO AREA FOUR, 819, 
TORONTO AREA FIVE, 1167, 
VANCOUVER, 1083, 
VICTORIA/ESQUIMALT, 816,  

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/includes/cbi_coverpage_e.asp?sidesection=6&docid=4 download this PDF, go to page 20, those are the rates for 2008 for all of Canada. These are adjusted each year. Just to point out a few things, the PLD rate is based on where you live  not where you go to school. So generally if you are going to go to a school downtown Toronto, live downtown, its worth it!!! (unless you can live for free elsewhere, otherwise the rent is not much different, but the PLD doubles!). To find out what the geographical areas are covered by each of these cities your ULO should be able to provide you with the map zones for each area. Also PLD is a taxable benefit, but a nice one still.

Also PLD is the same no matter what your rank within the REG Force.


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## Marshall

trentonmilwife said:
			
		

> First of all when you are a Civvy-U student the only thing that the military is truly concerned about (obviously there is more but the jist of it is):
> 1. You enroll in full time studies and submit the tuition claim
> 2. you submit claim for Textbooks, PP&S (up to the annual limit)
> 3. You do the EXPRESS Test by 31 Dec of that year
> 4. You pass all your courses, you don't drop a course without permission, you don't change academic programs without permission etc
> 5. You don't get into any legal or financial problems.
> 6. All medical services are to be used in accordance to the medical policies
> 7. Need leave passes to leave the geographical area
> 
> As a civvy-u student you are responsible for(obviously there is more but the jist of it is):
> 1. Your housing, your food, your costs, you pay it, arrange for it, buy it etc
> 2. Submitting claims to your ULO, booking your EXPRESS test, submitting leave passes
> 3. Going to class, pass your courses, and be available for Military training in the summer periods.
> 
> The SEM does not care whether you live at home, in residence or in a rented apartment, your friends basement etc. They don't care how you eat, these costs are your choice, and you pay them, they are not deducted from your pay check.
> 
> Regarding having a part-time job, it is up to the discretion of the SEM and ULO. Many students do it, just make sure you clear it first and make sure it does not impede on your scholastic abilities.
> 
> Regarding PLD, here are the rates from CANFORGEN 061/08
> IAW REF A THE FOLLOWING RATES ARE EFFECTIVE 1 APR 08, READ IN  COLUMNS: PLD AREA, FULL RATE:
> 
> ALDERGROVE, 418,
> CALGARY, 711,
> CAMBRIDGE, 71,
> COLD LAKE, 319,
> EDMONTON, 684,
> GUELPH, 167,
> HALIFAX, 631,
> HAMILTON, 414,
> KAMLOOPS/KELOWNA, 525,
> KITCHENER, 62,
> LETHBRIDGE, 234,
> MEAFORD, 77,
> MEDICINE HAT, 145,
> MONTREAL NORTH SHORE, 505,
> MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE, 376,
> MOOSE JAW, 284,
> NANAIMO, 75,
> QUEBEC CITY/VALCARTIER, 117,
> RED DEER, 327,
> REGINA, 62,
> SASKATOON, 382,
> SEPT-ILES, 107,
> ST JOHNS, 149,
> STRATFORD, 82,
> TORONTO AREA ONE, 1485,
> TORONTO AREA TWO, 506,
> TORONTO AREA THREE, 522,
> TORONTO AREA FOUR, 819,
> TORONTO AREA FIVE, 1167,
> VANCOUVER, 1083,
> VICTORIA/ESQUIMALT, 816,
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/includes/cbi_coverpage_e.asp?sidesection=6&docid=4 download this PDF, go to page 20, those are the rates for 2008 for all of Canada. These are adjusted each year. Just to point out a few things, the PLD rate is based on where you live  not where you go to school. So generally if you are going to go to a school downtown Toronto, live downtown, its worth it!!! (unless you can live for free elsewhere, otherwise the rent is not much different, but the PLD doubles!). To find out what the geographical areas are covered by each of these cities your ULO should be able to provide you with the map zones for each area. Also PLD is a taxable benefit, but a nice one still.
> 
> Also PLD is the same no matter what your rank within the REG Force.



So If I am living off-campus in Halifax as CivvyU ROTP I will get an extra $631 for rent?  ??? wow

And If so, is this denied if you have a room mate?


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## MJP

Yes you will get it.  I don't have the PLD rules in front of me but I would think you would get it even if you lived on campus.  It isn't Military Single Quarters so in my mind it qualifies but something to check out.

Only if your roommate is also military recieving PLD would your amount change and then you would only get 75% of the $631


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## Marshall

MJP said:
			
		

> Yes you will get it.  I don't have the PLD rules in front of me but I would think you would get it even if you lived on campus.  It isn't Military Single Quarters so in my mind it qualifies but something to check out.
> 
> Only if your roommate is also military recieving PLD would your amount change and then you would only get 75% of the $631



Ok, No she is only a civilian. Well that would be a great help to me if I do get that amount to help pay for rent. That will pretty much tackle my half of the rent. I was expecting it to come out of my $1440. This is getting better everyday haha. Thank you.


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## Pelorus

Marshall said:
			
		

> So If I am living off-campus in Halifax as CivvyU ROTP I will get an extra $631 for rent?  ??? wow
> 
> And If so, is this denied if you have a room mate?



Yes, that is how much you get for living in Halifax, but keep it mind this is before the taxes they take on it.  As stated above, you will get the full amount of PLD regardless of whether you live on or off campus, as long as you're not living with anyone else who is also getting PLD.  Between your Tier 1 pay as an OCdt. and Halifax PLD, expect to clear approximately $800 every two weeks.


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## Marshall

boot12 said:
			
		

> Yes, that is how much you get for living in Halifax, but keep it mind this is before the taxes they take on it.  As stated above, you will get the full amount of PLD regardless of whether you live on or off campus, as long as you're not living with anyone else who is also getting PLD.  Between your Tier 1 pay as an OCdt. and Halifax PLD, expect to clear approximately $800 every two weeks.



Considering I do not have to work for it, that is plentiful. Maybe I will get a 20 hour/week job 2nd semester or something if I am bored or feel like I need more money (If my SEM allows it of course). But I think I can handle that.  Thank you for the information.


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## apple123

Could anyone help with this question regarding ROTP Civil University Residence housing Costs
My son has been accepted ROTP Western London Ontario .The Fees for the 8 months Residence are $9600 
If his pay is will be approx $1200 after tax ?  that is almost exactly the same amount.
Is there any compensation or should he start saving for the extra fees? The University expect the Residence Fees to be paid in advance $4800 in Aug & $4800 in January will he need to get a loan to cover these advanced payments.
From what I understand the CF cover his Academic Fees , Books etc and his housing he pays out of salary.


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## MJP

He should start saving, as there is no compensation for residence (other than PLD or Post Living Differential), which looking above London doesn't get.


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## chris_log

apple123 said:
			
		

> Could anyone help with this question regarding ROTP Civil University Residence housing Costs
> My son has been accepted ROTP Western London Ontario .The Fees for the 8 months Residence are $9600
> If his pay is will be approx $1200 after tax ?  that is almost exactly the same amount.
> Is there any compensation or should he start saving for the extra fees? The University expect the Residence Fees to be paid in advance $4800 in Aug & $4800 in January will he need to get a loan to cover these advanced payments.
> From what I understand the CF cover his Academic Fees , Books etc and his housing he pays out of salary.



He should start saving as soon as possible. I personally paid my residence fees out of my first RESP payment (thank goodness I had parents who planned) but if you don't have the benefit of that then you pay out of pocket. 

If your son hasn't saved up enough for residence, I would suggest looking at a student line of credit from a bank to cover it (since ROTP types don't qualify for normal student loans like OSAP due to their income being too high)


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## Lumber

apple123 said:
			
		

> The Fees for the 8 months Residence are $9600



Is there a cheaper residence? Does he HAVE to live in residence?


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## Marshall

Lumber said:
			
		

> Is there a cheaper residence? Does he HAVE to live in residence?



Yea, I would look for an off campus apartment or something. Not sure on rent around the London area, but I am sure its under $1200 a month for a single?


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## apple123

Thanks everyone 
Everything is much clearer now at least we have a good 5 months to start saving 
His 1st year will be very tight, but hopefully the others will be fine living of campus.
Regarding PLD Victoria is over $800 and their Residence is $7500 London is $9700 with 0 PLD


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## MJP

PLD isn't just based on housing cost but a whole host of other factors.  Victoria is a more expensive place to live compared to London period.  Plus your sons costs include food, if I read the chart right.  Once that comes into play it really doesn't seem overly bad considering he is get a salary to just attend school.  He can always get a second job if his SEM allows it.


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## trentonmilwife

> If your son hasn't saved up enough for residence, I would suggest looking at a student line of credit from a bank to cover it (since ROTP types don't qualify for normal student loans like OSAP due to their income being too high)



As an ROTP student your salary is not too high to qualify for OSAP, as the cut off is fairly high (The first time I went to school, I qualified for enough OSAP to cover my tuition and I had made 40k the year before and owned a used car (only worth 8k thank god), but there are many mitigating factors, such as:
- How many years ago did the student finish highschool (if it was within the last 4 years, parents household incomes are counted in addition to the OCdt's salary)
- Does the applicant own a car worth more than $10,000
- How much tuition, books, fees, living costs will all be etc

I'm not sure if the forces allows students to apply to OSAP (as we can't claim that we are students on our income taxes), so a personal line of credit might be the way to go. 

SISIP, the financial services provider for military members, offers low interest loans to members for things like school. http://www.sisip.com/

Regarding PLD rates, they are based on the cost of a set basket of goods (that is costed in many Canadian cities) and doesn't depend on rank of the member receiving it.

While Residence is very costly, it is not the forces responsibility to cover these costs, as residence is not mandatory (just a nice convenience for first year students) and some (and most once done 1st year) will go live off campus for less. 
Given that tuition, books, some school supplies and academic fees are fully covered and we get a salary (that is closer to $1100 net a month (don't forget pension contributions and disability insurance)) is really not a bad deal, considering most students don't get any of that.
-


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## Drag

Maybe your son should look into a cheaper residence... $9700 for 2 semesters is excessive even with a meal plan...  the only thing I ever looked at approaching that amount of money living in downtown Toronto in a hotel that rented to students for a school year, and even that had 2 meals a day included.


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## apple123

OK let me explain on the website for ROPT it does say that Residence is mandatory 
We are in BC and Residence for better (newer) accommodation at UVic is $7500
So you can see our dilemma when we realized the UWO is $9700.... interesting Victoria has a extra living allowance and of course London Ontario does not seem to.
Do not get me wrong we totally understand that his School , books,etc is paid plus a salary.
It was just an observation .........this is really nothing to do with CF its..
 Ontario Universities in Comparison to BC


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## Barts

apple123 said:
			
		

> OK let me explain on the website for ROPT it does say that Residence is mandatory...



It's only mandatory if the university being attended has mandatory residence.  

RMC & RMC St-Jean: mandatory

Other (civilian) university: depends on the university, I haven't heard of any civilian uni requiring it.  UVic definitely does not care where I live.



			
				apple123 said:
			
		

> ...interesting Victoria has a extra living allowance and of course London Ontario does not seem to...



It's more expensive to live in some areas of Canada.  PLD is intended to cover cost of living differences for personnel posted to those areas. ROTP isn't the major consideration, we just tag along, since we're reg force too.  Case in point: There are several thousand members posted to Esquimalt (our entire west coat fleet, plus more...) and among those are the subsidized students at UVic and other schools in the area (roughly 20 of us.)

I can definitely empathize with your situation.  $9700 is a painful amount for res.


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## chris_log

apple123 said:
			
		

> OK let me explain on the website for ROPT it does say that Residence is mandatory
> We are in BC and Residence for better (newer) accommodation at UVic is $7500
> So you can see our dilemma when we realized the UWO is $9700.... interesting Victoria has a extra living allowance and of course London Ontario does not seem to.
> Do not get me wrong we totally understand that his School , books,etc is paid plus a salary.
> It was just an observation .........this is really nothing to do with CF its..
> Ontario Universities in Comparison to BC



Living in residence at a civilian university is not mandatory. It is mandatory to 'live in' at RMC et al, but not if you attend a civilian school. I'd like to see the link you got that from so I could maybe help you understand what it is saying.

Also, PLD is designed to cover a variety of living costs, not just university residence. London is NOT an expensive place to live vs a vs Victoria. Now, UWO does have more expensive residence costs but the PLD rates don't account for that. PLD is designed for ALL CF members, not just students. I think you may not understand the C&B benefits system and how it works. There are thousands of CF members in Victoria...there are less then 100 reg force members in London. 

Western is in general a more expensive school, always has been and is well known as such, I can't say I sympathise with the situation. As I mentioned before, look into student lines of credit to cover costs...they have low interest rates, are easy to get and have nice long terms to repay.


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## apple123

The Regular Officer Training Plan begins with academic training at the Royal Military College of Canada 
or at another Canadian university,[/size] followed by full time military service. Under this plan, the cost of tuition, uniforms, books, instruments and other essential fees are borne by the Department of National Defence. Medical and dental care, are also provided. Officer Cadets receive a monthly salary and are responsible for costs such as lodgings and meals. Living on campus is compulsory
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp


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## George Wallace

apple123 said:
			
		

> The Regular Officer Training Plan begins with academic training at the Royal Military College of Canada
> or at another Canadian university,[/size] followed by full time military service. Under this plan, the cost of tuition, uniforms, books, instruments and other essential fees are borne by the Department of National Defence. Medical and dental care, are also provided. Officer Cadets receive a monthly salary and are responsible for costs such as lodgings and meals. Living on campus is compulsory
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp



Yes.  And I would say someone was in too much of a hurry in posting updates to the CF site, or didn't really know what they were typing and "GENERALIZED" in that statement.  I would agree with all the others, that those attending Civilian Universities are NOT COMPELLED to live on Campus.  Many of the people that have replied to your query are such candidates and have not had to live on Campus.  

It looks like someone at CFRG will have to get onto their Webmaster and clean up/correct that page.


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## benny88

apple123 said:
			
		

> The Regular Officer Training Plan begins with academic training at the Royal Military College of Canada
> or at another Canadian university,[/size] followed by full time military service. Under this plan, the cost of tuition, uniforms, books, instruments and other essential fees are borne by the Department of National Defence. Medical and dental care, are also provided. Officer Cadets receive a monthly salary and are responsible for costs such as lodgings and meals. Living on campus is compulsory
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp




   I realize you're uneasy going against what the website said, but trust me, I go to UWO and the military could not care less where I live provided they can reach me when they need to.


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## chris_log

apple123 said:
			
		

> The Regular Officer Training Plan begins with academic training at the Royal Military College of Canada
> or at another Canadian university,[/size] followed by full time military service. Under this plan, the cost of tuition, uniforms, books, instruments and other essential fees are borne by the Department of National Defence. Medical and dental care, are also provided. Officer Cadets receive a monthly salary and are responsible for costs such as lodgings and meals. Living on campus is compulsory
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_2_2.asp



I'm going to assume you just googled 'Regular Officer Training Plan' and looked at the first 'official' link that came up (thats what I just did)? 

I agree with George, there's something wrong with that quote. Rest assured living in residence is not mandatory for civvie-u students, the quote is referring to RMC/CMR. 

I can see how you would have interpreted that as applying to all ROTP students. I'll say it again, living in residence is NOT mandatory for an ROTP type attending civvie-u. 

That being said, living in residence is part of the university 'experience' and IMHO the cost is worth it. 

When your kid is enrolled and sworn in (have they?) they should receive an 'ROTP Guide' in which all the pertinent rules and regs will be provided. In there you will see that ROTP types are not required to live on campus outside of RMC/CMR.


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## dwalter

Just to add one more voice. I am also an ROTP student at civilian university. I do not have to live on campus. As a matter of fact I have applied to live in residence both this year and last and been denied. Nothing you can do when fighting UBC's residence lottery system. 

The statement made is too general, and more specific information is given once an offer is made.


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## murrdawg

Barts said:
			
		

> It's only mandatory if the university being attended has mandatory residence.
> 
> RMC & RMC St-Jean: mandatory
> 
> Other (civilian) university: depends on the university, I haven't heard of any civilian uni requiring it.  UVic definitely does not care where I live.



Just to correct what has been said about RMC. Currently, first to third years it is mandatory to live on campus. Fourth years have what's called the socialization project where at the end of their third year, they can apply to live off campus and based on merit, etc will say whether or not they can live off or not. This is until such time that Champlain gets renovated. My guess is by that time though, they will have an increased number of students so the fourth years will continue to have the live-off program.


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## Shannan

hi, I have a question about the ROTP and this discussion is the closest to being related. We've been trying to find information for my sister about how long of a commitment is required after graduating from university. The recruitment officers we have talked to say it works out to nine years and when we ask if that includes school time they say no, that's after graduation. But they also say it's two months commitment for every one month they subsidize...which works out to about 5 years; and the site, and a quote from this message board say that ROTP grads are required to do 5 years of service post graduation....so is it five years or nine??? and why is it impossible to find a concrete answer?? thanks guys!


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## benny88

Are you calculating 8 months a year for school? Because I believe it's 12 months. Therefore 1 year of university = 2 years of service. It varies by trade, if the CFRC told you 9 years after grad, that's what it is.



			
				Shannan said:
			
		

> hi, I have a question about the ROTP and this discussion is the closest to being related. We've been trying to find information for my sister about how long of a commitment is required after graduating from university. The recruitment officers we have talked to say it works out to nine years and when we ask if that includes school time they say no, that's after graduation. But they also say it's two months commitment for every one month they subsidize...which works out to about 5 years; and the site, and a quote from this message board say that ROTP grads are required to do 5 years of service post graduation....so is it five years or nine??? and why is it impossible to find a concrete answer?? thanks guys!


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## Big Foot

Shannan said:
			
		

> hi, I have a question about the ROTP and this discussion is the closest to being related. We've been trying to find information for my sister about how long of a commitment is required after graduating from university. The recruitment officers we have talked to say it works out to nine years and when we ask if that includes school time they say no, that's after graduation. But they also say it's two months commitment for every one month they subsidize...which works out to about 5 years; and the site, and a quote from this message board say that ROTP grads are required to do 5 years of service post graduation....so is it five years or nine??? and why is it impossible to find a concrete answer?? thanks guys!


Well, things may have changed but I owe 5 years (now 4 years) obligatory service for my education. Best bet, ask for clarity on this from the recruiting centre.


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## SupersonicMax

2 months for every month subsidized, so you go to school from September to April, that's 8 months.  You do that for 4 years, that's 64 months, or 5 years and 4 months.  

Different program may have different requirements (ie: ROTP at Western for aviation college)

Trade doesn't have anything to do with it, your trade will affect your contract (and your VIE), which is a different thing altogether.


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## benny88

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Trade doesn't have anything to do with it, your trade will affect your contract (and your VIE), which is a different thing altogether.




Yes, sorry I wasn't clear to the asker of the question about the difference of those two things, I think that is where he or she is confused between the 9 years and the 5 years.


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## Shannan

thanks guys. okay, so if you have a trade you owe nine years?? I asked the recruiting office and they keep telling me nine years, or 2 months for every month....which doesn't add up LOL. so now is it nine years for nursing and 5 for something else?? so confusing....


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## SupersonicMax

9 years.   4 years for studies, 5 years for obligatory service.  The Math does work.


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## Shannan

that's what I said! but the recruiters kept telling me it was nine years AFTER graduation; thanks!


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## tabernac

Shannan said:
			
		

> that's what I said! but the recruiters kept telling me it was nine years AFTER graduation; thanks!



They could be referring to your contract length, not your obligatory service. My contract is 13 years (13 yr VIE) but I only need to serve 5 years oblig. service after graduation.


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## murrdawg

When I joined, I had to serve 5 years after the 4 of school.... SO I signed a 9 year contract..... My brother on the other hand, joined two years after me, and he had to sign a 13 year contract.


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## 2010newbie

murrdawg said:
			
		

> When I joined, I had to serve 5 years after the 4 of school.... SO I signed a 9 year contract..... My brother on the other hand, joined two years after me, and he had to sign a 13 year contract.



I was told I had two options:

4 years schooling and 5 years of service - I would not get severance pay nor moving expenses back to my "home" location at end of service

4 years schooling and 9 years service - Severance pay and moving expenses are paid at end of service

I'm sure there are more benefits between the two, but this is what I was told on the phone when I received my offer.


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## murrdawg

Oh wow.... Mine was very cut and dry.


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## SupersonicMax

murrdawg said:
			
		

> When I joined, I had to serve 5 years after the 4 of school.... SO I signed a 9 year contract..... My brother on the other hand, joined two years after me, and he had to sign a 13 year contract.



Again, contract and obligatory service are two things that are not related to each other.  Obligatory service is 2 months for every month subventionned.  Period.

Contract is whatever your VIE is (depends on trade).


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## DexOlesa

I know stupid question but what is does VIE stand for?


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## aesop081

DexOlesa said:
			
		

> I know stupid question but what is does VIE stand for?



Variable Initial Engagement


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## DexOlesa

Thank you


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