# Promotions in the CDN Forces



## MAJOR_Baker (5 Nov 2003)

I read somewhere that a person claims to have been in the CDN Forces for 15yrs.  Is it normal to have been in that long and still be a Corporal especially in the reserves?   I have been lead to believe that a Master Corporal or more likely a SGT should be their rank. :warstory:    Then again, I was thinking that maybe service in Cadets could be considered as service in the CDN Forces?  

got this info:



> We are a community-based youth program that offers interesting and challenging activities, teaches valuable life skills and provides opportunities to travel across Canada and around the world.
> 
> Young Canadians between the ages 12 to 18 are given opportunities to fly small aircraft, sail, rock-climb, participate in music and sporting competitions.


----------



## mattoigta (5 Nov 2003)

There are more prerequisites than just having time in. IE certain qualifications


----------



## combat_medic (5 Nov 2003)

1. Yes, it‘s entirely possible to be a corporal with 15 years in. I know one guy with 30+ years of service who‘s a corporal. Some people, especially in the reserves aren‘t able to take the time off to do the leadership training (no job protection legislation in Canada), and end up as Corporals for Life, aka CFLs. 

2. Being a cadet is not the same as serving in the Canadian Forces. Cadets are a separate organization, who, while affiliated with the CF, are not part of it.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (5 Nov 2003)

Cadets are children and its funny seeing a cadet MWO thinking he can boss a reg or reserve cpl around because he is under the assumption he is of superior rank.


----------



## dano (5 Nov 2003)

In regards to Ex-dragoons comment, I think that is one of the most selfish things to say about the cadet corp. Though technicly some cadets are children does not induce that "Cadets are children" and will be treated as such. For that is what you are implying. I‘m grossly effended, Theres guys out there that think there gangsters and think its cool to fight; they ruin there lives, hurt or break the family and if they manage to start up, chances are they are going to be working a crap job with crap pay. So you don‘t tell us that these cadets who volunteer, work, train, have fun, create good character, gain self asteem, make there family proud, and most importently learn; this is on there free time, to be classified as children; so if you still think cadets are children which leads them to be immature, then you must not have been in cadets.


----------



## Ruthless4Life (5 Nov 2003)

> In regards to Ex-dragoons comment, I think that is one of the most selfish things to say about the cadet corp. Though technicly some cadets are children does not induce that "Cadets are children" and will be treated as such. For that is what you are implying. I‘m grossly effended, Theres guys out there that think there gangsters and think its cool to fight; they ruin there lives, hurt or break the family and if they manage to start up, chances are they are going to be working a crap job with crap pay. So you don‘t tell us that these cadets who volunteer, work, train, have fun, create good character, gain self asteem, make there family proud, and most importently learn; this is on there free time, to be classified as children; so if you still think cadets are children which leads them to be immature, then you must not have been in cadets.


He said nothing wrong about cadets being children. If they are not, but I don‘t know what they are. Perhaps soldiers?!

I‘ve been in cadets and seen things myself.


----------



## dano (5 Nov 2003)

You see, he did not directly infer theres something wrong with cadets. I find it to be effending, regardless of what someone may refer. There will be people who agree and disagree.


----------



## combat_medic (5 Nov 2003)

> so if you still think cadets are children which leads them to be immature, then you must not have been in cadets


I‘ve worked with cadets on several occasions, and find the vast majority to be incredibly immature. I can‘t tell you how many times a cadet has attempted to pull rank on me. Yes, there are a few who take it seriously and are vaguely mature, but you can‘t deny that you and ALL the other cadets are CHILDREN! 

Despite any maturity you may have, or lack, you are still a child in the eyes of the law, and the eyes of the people on this forum. If you find the fact that you‘re children offensive, then wait until you‘re not a minor anymore. It won‘t be as offensive then.


----------



## chriscalow (5 Nov 2003)

I saw a cdt mcpl trying to tell an RCR mcpl that they were the same rank and that he couldn‘t give him orders.  The result of that made my summer worth going.  HAHA!!!


----------



## PTE Gruending (5 Nov 2003)

Wow, thats hilarious - cadets attempting to pull rank on CF members. I would love to hear some anecdotes about this! Anyone have any interesting stories about what you said/did to the offending cadet member?
thx


----------



## Coniar (5 Nov 2003)

But i know reserve members the same age as cadet members... there all in my high school... so if you 16 and in the reserves your a soldier but if you 16 and in cadets your immature?


----------



## Jarnhamar (5 Nov 2003)

If your 16 and in the reserves your a soldier. If your 16 and in the cadets your not a soldier.
Theres still plenty of immature people in the reserves but they still have more required of them. I would go so far to say that some of the 16 and 17 year old reservsts are children. As for Cadets trying to pull rank, thats just them being stupid and not knowing any better. I personally was almost charged with assault for dragging a cadet SGT Major out of the TV room in the transient quarters in petawawa because the 17 or 18 year old ‘kid‘ was trying to pick a fight with one of the jtf guys there who wouldnt give him the remote. Whos fault? Well his for being an idiot, darwin for not catching up with him sooner and the cadet corps for letting someone with that mentality slip through the ranks.

Dano even if i don‘t agree with you good on you for standing up for your own opinion even if it isn‘t in line with everyone elses AND not being ignorant about it.


----------



## mattoigta (5 Nov 2003)

I was in cadets a couple years ago and the cadets I see nowadays are pathetic. We were on a Change of Command parade and there was a cadet guard, the majority of the cadets couldnt even wear combats properly, strings down to their knees, horribly out of shape, terrible drill. And I KNOW anything remotely close to combat training is banned - what do they spend all their time doing?


----------



## Ruthless4Life (5 Nov 2003)

Here‘s the difference...

Cadet - youth organization

Military - National Defense


----------



## Coniar (5 Nov 2003)

Ghost my point was that you can put the same 16 yr old "kid" in either orgonization and there still the same "kid".

I was in cadets for a few weeks awhile ago and quite honestly boy scouts might have been more engaging, but I have friends who love it. Eating IMP‘s after flash light tag isnt exactley my idea of fun or training. No offence meant to the cadet members here whatsoever, like I said I have friends in cadets, nothing wrong with the people there.


----------



## Gryphon (5 Nov 2003)

> Cadets are children and its funny seeing a cadet MWO thinking he can boss a reg or reserve cpl around because he is under the assumption he is of superior rank.


I‘m sorry, but i don‘t find anything that could be remotly offensive by that remark. Cadets are children..

The difference between a 16 y.o. cadet and a 16 y.o. soldier is this: The 16 y.o. soldier is taught discipline (And don‘t tell me that cadets are taught the same discipline as soldiers), they are taught how to be self-sufficient, they are taught how to be a SOLDIER, not a wanna-be soldier [before i get flamed for that remark, wait, and let me explain after this paragraph], as well, they do not have a superiority complex that most 16 y.o. cadets have.

I say "wanna-be soldier" because that‘s what cadet‘s was made for... it was made for kids who couldn‘t be in the army, but wanted some sort of regimentation. as well, it was made so that kids liked the army, and therefore, when old enough, would join the army.

As for an anecdote: I was in the armoury, and being a non-qualified private at the time, i still had the ODGreen combats on... anyways... i was getting something from my locker, when some Cadet Sgt came up to me and started ordering me to bring a **** load of chairs to the parade square. I told him politely to go suck an egg, then he started to ream me out. One of my MCpls saw this and told the Sgt to sod off... that‘s my anecdote


----------



## fusilier955 (5 Nov 2003)

i got one, my cousin with 1RCR was in the junior ranks mess when a cadet CWO comes over and starts bitching at him.  the little twirp wanted him to come to attention and call him "sir".  he just stood there smirking and told the little brat to go play soldier in the corner with the rest of the good little cadets.  kids are so dumb.


----------



## chriscalow (6 Nov 2003)

As a cadet I can tell you that cadets is gay.  But there are some of us that are not just kids.  We are by no means soldiers, but there are a few of us who for one reason or another stayed in the program, mostly because it looks good on resume‘s.  But yes, the vast majority of cadets are useless little plugs who think that cadets is going to show them what its going to be like in the CF.


----------



## dano (6 Nov 2003)

Perhapes then,you would like to enlighten us on another youth volunteer military organization that does teach us what its like to be in the CF?


----------



## MikeM (6 Nov 2003)

Qy Rang cadet, I agree 100% with you on that. The vast majority of cadets are useless plugs, but there are some of us who actually have our heads screwed on correctly. I myself have decided to stay in until the end of this coming summer after I get my jump wings before applying for the Regs. I stuck it out in hopes things would get better, but cadets have gone WAY downhill over a long time, the last 15 years especially.

Keep the stories coming, I love hearing them, when i think of a couple good ones I‘ll share them. I remember on my cadet patrolling course I had a MCPL assault pioneer as my platoon advisor, and a CIC officer decided that what the Mcpl was teaching wasn‘t "correct" by his standards, so we had a CIC officer telling an assault pioneer Reg Force Master Corporal the "proper" way to do a patrol.

Needless to say, the CIC officer ended up walking away a little droopy headed, after the Mcpl laughed and turned around to continue teaching the class. We all had a good laugh after that one.   

Thats one of my better stories, and I know how you guys feel about the CIC.. hehe.


----------



## combat_medic (6 Nov 2003)

A while back, I was working in a cadet camp MIR. Now, when I‘m working in a medical capacity, I‘m pretty easy going. When you‘re sick or broken, the last thing you need is a snarky medic, right? So, I told one of the staff cadets to go wait in the waiting room until it was his turn to be seen. He (some Sgt) said to me "what did you say to me, PRIVATE?" I whipped around and yelled at him "Excuse me, CADET, but if you don‘t turn around and get your ***  into the waiting room, I‘ll make sure you‘re marched out of here by your staff officers, taken before the CO and charged, capiche?"

He kind of shut up after that.


----------



## leader (6 Nov 2003)

Dano, cadets is not a "youth volunteer military organization " as you put it. One of the aims is to develop an interest in the CF. It doesn‘t teach us what it‘s like to be in CF.


----------



## Jarnhamar (6 Nov 2003)

Cadets aren‘t really being given a fair chance though. Their learning about the military, that doesnt mean that all of them are actually interested in the military or are pretending to be soldiers.
MikeM i have to ask, if you feel the vast majority of cadets are useless plugs does that mean you failed as a leader to teach them properly or are they just that far beyond redemption?

While you can‘t hold them to the same standards i‘m willing to bet a lot of these kid cadets have spent more time in the woods than first and second year privates. Not to mention teaching classes and drill.


----------



## dano (6 Nov 2003)

Leader, thank you for noticing my mistake. But what I ment to emply is Military related/structured/develope intrest organization.


----------



## Pte. Bloggins (6 Nov 2003)

I know this is kinda off topic but do Cadets get paid? Cause if they don‘t, especially the 16 and 17 yr olds, why don‘t they just join the reserve?


----------



## combat_medic (6 Nov 2003)

Cadets don‘t get paid, it‘s entirely voluntary. The exception to this is when you go away for the summer. If you‘re taking a course, you get paid a small amount (something like $20 a week, the cadets can correct me on this one). If you‘re a staff cadet, you earn a salary which is slightly lower than what a basic private would make.

As to why they stay, some don‘t want to join the army at all. Others stay so that they can do things like flight school, basic para, exchanges and such programs that are only offered to senior cadets. Some just want to stay in until they age out, some like the responsibility of having a higher rank, and don‘t want to go back to being at the bottom of the totem pole again. Everyone‘s reason for staying is different.


----------



## Rafe (6 Nov 2003)

Do you have to follow orders that a cadet gives?  I am not exposed to cadets in our Regiment so i dont know about them.  So do we have to comply with their rank even though they arn‘t apart of the CF?  :soldier:


----------



## combat_medic (6 Nov 2003)

Cadets have about as much authority as boy scouts do. Other cadets are supposed to listen to them, but they have ABSOLUTELY NO authority within the CF. Many of them try to boss around CF members, but it usually earns them a kick in the head. It‘s very funny to watch though.


----------



## Spartan (6 Nov 2003)

Reasons why I have stayed in the cadet programme?
to develop leadership, good citizenship and overall good things to the "twirpy"
 12-14 yr olds...
heck even the older mouthier ones to.

through the program i‘ve seen both good and bad...and people improve in terms of their attitude if given proper teachings in it...*just like any other organization out there* you also have the people who don‘t want to be there... people who lack maturity etc etc... Its up to the cadet leaders to fit their title of leaders and do their jobs well.

very early on, I know I was taught ( and everyone else for that matter)
that cadets is not part of the military...only associated with it...

if I ever saw any cadet try to give orders to Reserve or Reg force personnel.... after that Reserve/Reg force person finished reeming them out... 
I‘d reem them out mighty good.... and for sure that cadet deserves a swift kick *i say this because we can‘t hit them* because that is absolutely retarded... ****  if I saw that on even a brand new Pte Recruit. someone who just got their papers in and checking out the local military unit.. I‘d give the Pte full permission to reem the ****  out of that cadet...


Now i know we all have seen the tool cadets and people who shouldn‘t be there... but there are ones there who *like any other organisation including the military* work their asses of in order to put in 110% all the time....


----------



## dano (6 Nov 2003)

Can CF members give orders to individual cadets? For example CF-Pvt tells C/Cpl to help clean up the armories or anything like that?


----------



## combat_medic (6 Nov 2003)

Dano: That one is a little more cryptic. Just as a CIC officer can‘t order around random CF members, random CF members can‘t order around cadets.

However, if the CF member has been given authority or jurisdiction within that particular unit, such as when I was tasked to teach C7 handling to cadets, then yes, they can give orders, and can expect those orders to be followed.

So the answer is; normally no, but sometimes yes.


----------



## Highland Lad (6 Nov 2003)

I‘ll second combat_medic on this one. Cadets are associated with the forces, but are civilians (and usually underage civilians at that!). A CF member has as much authority over them as they would over any other underage civilian - practically none except under special circumstances.

(Those circumstances may include being the armoury duty NCO - if a cadet is ordered to pick up trash as part of a clean-up effort that they have been assigned to by their regular authority, they can choose not to listen - they can also choose not to stay in cadets. Same goes if a duty NCO or duty Officer tells a cadet to correct something - uniform, behaviour, or other - if that behaviour falls under their duty, the cadet has the same choice.)

Discipline of cadets by CF members, though, is another story... unless that CF member has been specifically placed in a position of assigned authority, their only real options of discipline are as follows:

1. Remove the cadet from the area (if it is off-limits)

2. Report the incident to the appropriate authorities (usually the cadet corps‘ officers or (if on DND property) the commissionnaire, who usually has an elevated status in most cadets‘ eyes)


----------



## Gibson (9 Nov 2003)

I‘m surprised to learn about cadets pulling rank on Regs and Reservists.  I was in cadets for 7 years and left as a Flight Sergeant with the Air Cadets.  If a supply Cpl at Borden bitched me out for not folding a tent correctly I stood at attention and got bitched out and replied "Yes, Corporal"  A dilemma for me was what to say when a Private was pissed off.  The first thing I taught my cadets was that our ranks were for cadets only, hence the "Cadet" on the epaulette.

I have no idea about Army Cadets ‘cause there wasn‘t a unit by my house, only Air so that‘s what I joined.  I don‘t know anything about the other branches but Air Cadets provides a FANTASTIC program for youth in a variety of ways.  People didn‘t join to play soldier because it was Air Cadets, they joined to learn leadership, citizenship, and even get their pilots licence.  Right now I‘m a Glider Pilot Infanteer.    Some parents forced their kids into it for discipline but that never works ‘cause the program really can‘t deliver to those expectations and they usually leave, or find another reason for staying.

Originally the Air Cadets was formed to supplement the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan so that youth could learn all the basics early to supplement their training for war.  Obviously it has changed its role to purely a youth organization, but a very good one at that.

As for immature people, there always will be those, especially with teenagers.  I‘ve seen senior cadets that in my squadron would have never even been promoted.  Powertripping Cadets are one of my biggest pet peeves!  Especially when I was a cadet.  It‘s a shame though, because there are a number of hard-working 17 and 18 year olds in the program who seriously want to get positive things out of the system and have a clear idea of exactly where their place is in the CF hierarchy.


----------



## nULL (9 Nov 2003)

i always thought cadets were almost like "the next level" after boy scouts. i was a scout, a looooong time ago    

best time of my life was being an 11 year old scout, and going down to the local armoury, and getting to handle the weapons. the real-soldier guys didn‘t like us pointing the rifles at each other, or pulling back the breech (?) on the handguns...apparently the fingers on 11 year old boys can get crushed pretty easily. 

EDIT: they didn‘t mind if we pointed the rocket launchers at the trucks full of other scouts though...

then this other time, we got to go to the naval base CFB Esquimalt. we got tours of the destroyers and stuff, though the best thing was getting packed into a speedboat (there‘s a name for the type...kind of 2 pointy bits on the back?) and getting rides out on the ocean. ahh, good times. 

pity scouts never got to do that all the time. usually it was just lame stuff, we almost never went hiking or camping enough. 

anyways, am i right? IS it the next level after scouts? i mean, you have the ceremony, the berets, the irritating spaz-out guys....what else does cadets offer?


----------



## Da_man (9 Nov 2003)

i used to be a cadet to...  I joined when i was 15, stuck with 12 yrs old level 1.  I thought we were going to do "army stuff" but it turned out all we did was learning what to do if theres a fire.


----------



## Jarnhamar (9 Nov 2003)

So what happens when your in the army and all of a sudden the vehicle your driving in, tent your sleeping in or building your living in catches fire?


----------



## Da_man (9 Nov 2003)

yeah but we dont have to learn it 10 times


----------



## Jarnhamar (9 Nov 2003)

People forget things easily so you have to beat it into their brain. I know where your comming from though.
Cadets has the ability to be a top notch program for kids and young adults. They need to weed out a lot of the problems in it‘s structure though.


----------



## D-n-A (9 Nov 2003)

with the cadets, if the unit has good CICs running it, then yes, it can be a great organization


one of the cadet unit‘s I‘ve seen, has "leniant" CICs, an let their cadets wear american uniforms, have long hair, etc, etc

an yea, some cadets do think they can order around CF members, it‘s either that, or cadet‘s think we‘re all officer‘s an call us "sir" or "ma‘am" 


the worst thing I‘ve heard a cadet do was

at Vernon Summer Camp, a few years back, one cadet was talking trash about PPCLI to another cadet, an there was two PPCLI Cpls within hearing range of this...    This of course didnt go well with the two PPCLI Cpls...


----------



## Spr.Earl (9 Nov 2003)

We all know in the Militia it‘s given once you pass you‘r course you get promoted not because of merit which it should be it‘s just to keep you in!!

 At least in the Reg.‘s it‘s still the same!!!
Thank God!!!

The only reason I have stayed a M/Cpl in the Engineer‘s for the last 27yrs. is because I still like operating Heavy Equipment and still get hand‘s on with  Boom Boom‘s!  :blotto:  
And do my job bulidng bridge‘s,road‘s and helping the C.E. type‘s Etc.Every thing a Hengineer does.
Also I hate the Polotic‘s that come‘s with Rank!!!

 Nothing like doing your calc.‘s and seeing the end result,did it work or not?
Nothing like demolition‘s Guy‘s.


----------

