# Kabul prison raid by Afghan Army



## bossi (18 Dec 2004)

It's a good sign if the new Afghan Army and police can start handling problems like this, without requiring ISAF (foreign) assistance all the time - it's a sign that they're getting back on their feet ...
(and, purely out of idle curiousity, I'd be interested to know whether the Afghan Army units involved were ones being trained by Canadians - but, I guess we'll have to wait for /edia/"open source" confirmation).



> *Afghan army storms siege prison *
> 
> Declan Walsh in Islamabad - Saturday December 18, 2004 - The Guardian
> 
> ...


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## Tpr.Orange (18 Dec 2004)

very good news indeed. Its good to see their training is paying off.


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## Canadian.Trucker (18 Dec 2004)

The sooner they can get on their feet, the sooner the country can get back to a normal state of being.   It's a start, glad to hear it.


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## KevinB (19 Dec 2004)

FWIW
Pul-e-Charki is a base on the northeast side of Kabul - The Canadians train on the base in the SouthWest...


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## nismo0 (19 Dec 2004)

UNfucQING believable........they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects? I demand we all start a letter writing campaign to free them. Oh and about those Pakistani and Iraqi suspects (suspects my ass), shouldn't they have been shot for Terrorism? FUCKING BASTARDS, anything would be too good for them.  A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists. 

Sometimes the good guys gotta take off the gloves  :warstory:


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## Gunner (19 Dec 2004)

> I'd be interested to know whether the Afghan Army units involved were ones being trained by Canadians



No they weren't.  Kevin was correct in his comments.



> they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects?



Why?



> Sometimes the good guys gotta take off the gloves



Don't you become part of the problem and are no longer distinguishable between Good and Bad?


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## KevinB (19 Dec 2004)

As Gunner alluded as soon as we "take off the gloves" we lose our moral right to diferentiate between them and us with regards too terrorism.  The fact we fight under a set principle (the rules of land warfare) are what distinguish our actions as right.

 If we allow ourselves to be pulled into the gutter and start torture or courts of "star chamber" sessions we have lots our definining characteristics and they have truly won.


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## bossi (19 Dec 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Pul-e-Charki is a base on the northeast side of Kabul - The Canadians train on the base in the SouthWest...



(chuckle ... I was kinda thinkin' Pol-e-Charki hadn't moved too much from when I was in Camp Warehouse ... wink)
The newspapers didn't mention which Afghan Army units were engaged, thus I was only curious whether the closest ANA unit had taken care of business, or whether they'd bussed in help from anywhere else.

Thanks for the clarifications, Kev and Gunner!


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## Fusaki (19 Dec 2004)

> UNfucQING believable........they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects? I demand we all start a letter writing campaign to free them. Oh and about those Pakistani and Iraqi suspects (suspects my ***), shouldn't they have been shot for Terrorism? ******* BASTARDS, anything would be too good for them.   A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists.



Listen buds, you can't have vigilantes like Jack Idema running around the Afghan countryside waging a personal war against Al Queada. 

As professional soldiers we're bound by legal obligations that give us the moral highground necessary to win wars. Take a look at Somalia for a fine example of what happens when Canadians question the integrity of Canadian soldiers. Take a look at Abu Gharib and see the kind of crap storm that erupts when US forces are suspected of acting like the regime they are sent to destroy. The Americans found out in Vietnam the importance of support back home, and their veterans are still suffering a high number of cases of PTSD due to the ungratefull public they returned home to. If the public found out that ours or an allied government was allowing torture as a means of intelligence gathering we would lose the support at home we need to get this job done.

Yes, I know Idema claims to be supported by the Pentagon. But he has a criminal record in the US and word is that he was junk when he was in the SF. As well, if he was doing such a good job, he would have never been arrested by US and Afghan forces. Even if he was supported by the US government, that does not justify his violation of international law. A big part of fighting terror in Afghanistan is convincing the locals that is better to support us then it is to support Al Queda. But you can't give them a sense of security if you have a bunch of mercenaries fighting their own war independent of any government.


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## Armymedic (19 Dec 2004)

Matters not if they were Canadian trained or not, the trainers would assist in the orders and plans, and then (for lack of better terms) allow the ANA commanders to "unleash the hounds". From there, they stay back an observe from a distance. After the op was over, they would conduct a AAR with the commanders (Squad to company level), no different from any ex here.


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## pbi (19 Dec 2004)

Glad to see the strong condemnation of Jack Idema on this thread IMHO he and his bunch were not "the good guys" and the last thing we want to do is align ourselves with them. They are where they belong: in an Afghan jail, sentenced by an Afghan court, for committing crimes against the Afghan people. Cheers.


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## Jarnhamar (19 Dec 2004)

> UNfucQING believable........they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects? I demand we all start a letter writing campaign to free them. Oh and about those Pakistani and Iraqi suspects (suspects my ass), shouldn't they have been shot for Terrorism? FUCKING BASTARDS, anything would be too good for them.  A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists.
> 
> Sometimes the good guys gotta take off the gloves



Before you take off your gloves which are probably attached by a string, can you turn your brain on for us?



> A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists.



Alright. So guys who are willing to blow themselves up are going to be shocked into submission by a public shooting. It will prompt them to take their big red ball and go home huh.


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## nismo0 (19 Dec 2004)

Yeah if we cremate them afterwards so they won't go to heaven, or whatever. I think in their delusional mind, it might freak them out. LOL

Yeah you're right about the moral high ground thing, but it's soooo hard not to take things personally. 
(Also I do exaggerate in my posts, for S&G LOL). 

Ghost778 wtf is up with the personal attack relax, we aren't in the UN. 
Now apologize.


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## Michael OLeary (19 Dec 2004)

nismo0 said:
			
		

> *(Also I do exaggerate in my posts, for S&G LOL). *



nismo0, 

When you present yourself seriously, you may expect to be taken seriously. If you wish to present yourself as a class clown, expect to be treated as such. We have little use for a court jester attempting to inject poorly considered levity, or unjustified solutions based on opinions without consideration of circumstances and societal factors or impacts, into threads of serious discussion. If you only wish to stir a pot and then take offence to serious criticism and counter-argument, then start a thread in off-topic and keep it there, or find a forum more suited to your mood. I hardly think you are the one deserving of an apology based on your contributions.


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## Stefan Moxness (19 Dec 2004)

O'Leary beautifully said.  Nismo, as anyone else on this site, you are welcome to your own opinion, no one will oppose that, but perhaps it would be wiser in the future to at the very express it in a less "class-clownish" manner.  At least when a more serious topic such is this is the one being posted to.

Cheers


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## nismo0 (19 Dec 2004)

Michael OLeary said:
			
		

> nismo0,
> 
> When you present yourself seriously, you may expect to be taken seriously. If you wish to present yourself as a class clown, expect to be treated as such. We have little use for a court jester attempting to inject poorly considered levity, or unjustified solutions based on opinions without consideration of circumstances and societal factors or impacts, into threads of serious discussion. If you only wish to stir a pot and then take offence to serious criticism and counter-argument, then start a thread in off-topic and keep it there, or find a forum more suited to your mood. I hardly think you are the one deserving of an apology based on your contributions.



â Å“...attempting to inject poorly considered levityâ ? If that comment isn't the epitome of your pretentious and limited understanding of forums and the English language, then I don't know what is. Poorly considered levity? Was there a proper form of levity you would accept on this form? : Please understand the use and the correct connotation of a word before you use it.  :-[

â Å“Unjustified solutions based on opinions without consideration of circumstances and societal factors or impacts, into threads of serious discussionâ ?
My understanding of mid-east affairs far exceeds yours, I would say by a factor of 100. This is not any form of exaggerations; I can assess this by your response, your rank, and years of experience. Further more, if you are wholly interested in adding your 'justified solutions based on scientific facts with consideration of all circumstances and socio-political economic factorsâ ? I humbly suggest you join a think tank. Clearly these plebeian forums are not the place to express such arguments and solutions. Lastly I see by your experience that you have accumulated over 20 years, but yet only rose to the rank of Capt.; need I write more.  

Please present counter arguments, but please don't call people names, don't imply it either. It looks poorly on your character, much worse then my harmless exaggerations that takes aim at no one on this forum. I keep things light because this forum is not the NSC, or whatever the Canadian equivalent is. If people throw out ideas that you may not like or agree with, teach them or ignore them; but don't be pretentious, and kindly do not attack them personally.  :-*

Lastly, there is a fair bit of truth to my recommendation of public execution and cremation. Not all our problems can be solved through reason, or logic, when a country operates under Shari a Law, unconventional solutions need to be explored. But not specifically or limited to the ones I just mentioned above.


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## 48Highlander (19 Dec 2004)

Wow.  if that doesn't warrant a warning I don't know what does...


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## Fusaki (19 Dec 2004)

I'd suggest a kick in the nuts.


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## 48Highlander (19 Dec 2004)

yeah I was gonna say something about looking for my baseball bat, but then I remembered that personal threats are rather silly online.  this boy deffinitely needs to be taught some manners though.


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Dec 2004)

nismo0 said:
			
		

> Clearly these plebeian forums are not the place to express such arguments and solutions.



You could always leave. I don't think anyone would mind, be offended or miss you.


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## nismo0 (19 Dec 2004)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> yeah I was gonna say something about looking for my baseball bat, but then I remembered that personal threats are rather silly online.  this boy deffinitely needs to be taught some manners though.
> [/quote



can you turn your brain on for us?
Class clow, court jester
*** clown....

Undeniable irrefutable sign of respect. 

Because I'm new, it doesn't make me weak, or stupid. Watch what you say, and everything will be fine. Be disrespectful and rude, and I will repay the courtasy, teach me and be respectful, I will thank and revere you.


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## 48Highlander (19 Dec 2004)

nismo0 said:
			
		

> can you turn your brain on for us?
> Class clow, court jester
> *** clown....
> 
> ...



I refer you to the conduct guidelines:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/23352.0.html

You might have trouble with the common sense portion, but as long as you follow the rest of the rules, you should be ok.  If on the other hand you continue on your current track, don't expect to last long around here.


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## George Wallace (19 Dec 2004)

nismo0 said:
			
		

> My understanding of mid-east affairs far exceeds yours, I would say by a factor of 100. This is not any form of exaggerations; I can assess this by your response, your rank, and years of experience. Further more, if you are wholly interested in adding your 'justified solutions based on scientific facts with consideration of all circumstances and socio-political economic factorsâ ? I humbly suggest you join a think tank. Clearly these plebeian forums are not the place to express such arguments and solutions. Lastly I see by your experience that you have accumulated over 20 years, but yet only rose to the rank of Capt.; need I write more.



Just another example that we must start requiring people to fill in a little more of their profiles.   Michael O'Leary's profile says a lot to me.....while nismo0 is an empty slate.   Not even an age.   To me that is a sign of a Troll when statements as above are made about another poster.   Sorry, nismo0 your credentials are sorrily lacking. 

GW


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## Ex-Dragoon (19 Dec 2004)

Well put George.....I think nismoo days here are numbered unless he smartens up (yeah right  : ).


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## nismo0 (19 Dec 2004)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> I refer you to the conduct guidelines:
> 
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/23352.0.html
> 
> You might have trouble with the common sense portion, but as long as you follow the rest of the rules, you should be ok.  If on the other hand you continue on your current track, don't expect to last long around here.



I might have trouble with the common sense portion???????????????????????????? This is your genius approach to resolve this issue? Is to take another shot at me, and further agitate me? Why are you attacking me??????? Were your parents related before they were married? Is this a biological defeat that needs to be addressed? I can help with genome re-sequencing. 

Your pitiful existence and your limited income speaks for itself, not to mention your obvious lack of reason and civility.


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## nismo0 (19 Dec 2004)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Well put George.....I think nismoo days here are numbered unless he smartens up (yeah right  : ).




Yeah well, I'm not a TROLL, I came here to get some info, and a lot of great ppl helped me out, and I am very thankful to them. But today, this MOB of insane ppl choose to attack me? For what?? You want to write insults all day long, and show your awsome intellectual power....on here??? 

PFFFT


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## Slim (19 Dec 2004)

Bye Bye...


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## KevinB (20 Dec 2004)

Well he lasted long   ;D

Sad to see a thread go to hell like that though.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Dec 2004)

New members: Turn your brain off and YOU TOO can earned the coveted BANNED position.   :blotto:


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## 48Highlander (20 Dec 2004)

hey that just made me think of something....just out of curiosity....what happens if a paid member gets way out of line?  not that it's likely to happen....I'm just curious if any of the moderators have thought about it


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## KevinB (20 Dec 2004)

Shunned, only able to access their only special banned member forum


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## Slim (20 Dec 2004)

How about "read but not able to post for one year" or something similer...?

Slim


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## muskrat89 (20 Dec 2004)

> I'm just curious if any of the moderators have thought about it



We've thought about almost everything. You'd be amazed at the CPXs we run in the Mods Section.

 ;D


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## 48Highlander (20 Dec 2004)

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> > I'm just curious if any of the moderators have thought about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



    Good to know   like I said, I don't think it'll happen, but it's always good to be prepared.


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## sapper332 (21 Dec 2004)

Well,
   I just read all three pages of this thread - and what a good chuckle I had! Nothing better than to see some jtf, navy seal, special forces, delta poser like [nismo0] get the boot!
   I suppose we all have to take everything we read on ANY site with a grain of salt - but he certainly gives those of us who just want opinion share respectfully a bad name.
   In the end - I still think the baseball bat AND the kick in the nuts would have been my preferred way to sort the fella out too... damn those ethics!!!

    Well done to all who helped to take the trash out of Army.ca!


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## Sh0rtbUs (26 Dec 2004)

Seems he's been dipping into the thesauras a little to often as well  ;D

As far as banned Subscribers, there should be a disclaimer stating that they will be treated with the same level of discipline as everyone else, and although they have paid, they can still be potentially banned. After all, its their money, and their actions. Money shouldnt mean immunity here..


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## M16 (26 Dec 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Shunned, only able to access their only special banned member forum


Is there an actual banned members forum?


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## Scott (26 Dec 2004)

Don't try to find out


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## M16 (26 Dec 2004)

I wasn't planning to find out.  Just wondering about it.


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## muskrat89 (26 Dec 2004)

It's kind of like heaven and/or hell.... you won't *really* know for sure, until the time comes...


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## Scott (26 Dec 2004)

.....and you certainly can't go back and change it....


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## Sh0rtbUs (27 Dec 2004)

oh well fellas, the wonder over. I've been there, and let me tell you..nothing special. The drapes match, weathers fairly good...but theres a shortage of chairs..


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## Smith048 (27 Dec 2004)

Man you have to love it when a guy starts to put down a guy who has been in 20 yrs or so saying that cause he only is a  Capt, he must be dumb, has he not heard of coming from the ranks. And this guy had no info in his Profile, so where can he get off saying that he has all this experiance. Have to love those guys who read about special forces and think they are one, and then ruin a good thread cause they get mad when someone tells them that we can't lower ourselfs, and be like the enemy. Well just wanted to say my two cents on nismo0 good thing to see him band we don't need people like that here.

Good to see that the Afgan army is starting to handle some situations on its own. Show some good progress. Seeing as this is what the tread was about, LOL


 :fifty:


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