# Is there demand for Direct Entry Officers?



## jdalton35 (10 Jun 2010)

I just recently finished University. Completed a BA in Economics with a minor in Political Science. Graduated with a B+ GPA. Not amazing but still respectable. I have tried to contact the recruiting office but they don't seem very motivated to recruit me. I'm looking to enrol as a officer under the DEO plan. Not completely set on one particular trade but I am drawn towards Armoured Recon. Possibly Infantry. I have a good civie job right now making more than I would in the forces but I want to join the forces for mare than just the money. Just starting to get frustrated with what seems a lack of motivation from the recruiters I'm talking too. Is the CF not really looking for GSO currently? Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks

Justin


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## Beech Boy (10 Jun 2010)

My general impression from reading the multiple recruiting threads available on this site is that this fiscal year (April 2010 - April 2011) has come with fairly sparse recruiting numbers overall. That being said, if you really want to join the Forces the only person's motivation you should be concerned with is your own. Research all of the officer trades on this site and forces.ca. If getting in sooner rather than later is your top priority, find out what trades are currently open and/or in demand... If you are willing to wait longer in order to get a specific trade then start the process, do whatever you can to strengthen your application and be patient.

I'm not trying to be negative but as a fellow recruit 2.5 years into the process that is the best advice I can give.

Best of luck,

Beech.


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## chujai11 (10 Jun 2010)

Hey Justin,

Just to share my point of view. If you are the one who is in desire to join the CF, then you should be motivated enough to pursue this path no matter what others do or say to you. Stick to your belief.

Best,
Andy


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## PegcityNavy (10 Jun 2010)

As someone who got an offer for Infantry Officer in May my advice to you would be to do your best due diligence.  Be in constant contact with your local recruiting center, see if you can get a file manager, they are absolutely awesome and will do their best to help you. As far as your GPA i don't know what influence that would have. As far as the numbers of spots open, they can change. I was originally going to do MARS but decided it wasn't for me, so the day after i came back from NOAB i went down to the recruiting center to see what was open, infantry wasn't open so i was prepared to wait it out. But i was persistent and got in contact with my file manager and she had me come down again and low and behold a spot had opened up. I setup an interview and was privileged enough to get an Offer. 

So my advice is go down to your recruiting center, they want to help you. Things do change so check back with them at least once a month. You need to be on top of this, because with their case load they cannot be expected to babysit your file.


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## Nostix (10 Jun 2010)

Justin,

I understand how you feel. My first experience with the CFRC wasn't exactly how I pictured it either. Having a degree can certainly make you feel like a valuable asset that should be sought after. Even more so if you're used to dealing with civilian companies who are willing to roll out red carpets to try to grab a top graduate.  I know it was rather deflating for me to walk into the center expecting a recruiting pitch or a conversation, and getting “Yep, you’re qualified and the trade is open. Apply, or don’t.”

Having had the opportunity to reflect on the experience, while we all want to be treated like we’re special little gems, we really aren’t. Nobody in the CF is going to put on a dance for you just because you have a little bit of extra education. Don’t let your expectations of the process get in the way of your ultimate purpose. You’re not joining to be recognized for your civilian achievements. You certainly aren’t joining to have the recruiter bend over backwards to make you feel good.

My second experience with the CFRC went much better from my point of view. I didn’t go in expecting to have a chat with anyone; I went in with a list of questions and information that I wanted for myself. I got my business taken care of very matter-of-factly, and got out. If I want to talk to someone about why I should (or should not) join, I’ve had much better luck talking to friends in the military, or others on the internet. 

Perhaps there are recruiters out there who are going to be enthusiastic about selling you on the CF. I wouldn’t hold my breath. You’re doing this for you.  If you can’t get through the application without a pat on the back from a recruiter, it’s going to be a tough career. If you need a pat on the back occasionally, that’s what we’re here for. 

Don’t give up, and best of luck to you.

~ Chris.


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## Otis (10 Jun 2010)

First hand experience Mentor Hat on

OK, here goes:

Nothing against anyone, and I'm NOT directing this in particular at the OP, but can you IMAGINE how many times I hear how badly someone wants a job because they want to serve their country, they feel it's a noble profession, they believe in God and Queen and Country, blah blah blah ...

Fact of the matter, I WANT to help you, but I could really care less if you-in-particular have a job. You want the job? You want a career? PROVE it. At least TRY to earn it. Make me notice that you're different than the dozens of others that want to be an Officer in the CF. We're not currently hiring Infantry Officers, Armoured Officers or any other Combat Arms ... and really, I get hundreds of people coming to the RC to apply who have degrees in Economics, Poli Sci, Business, Int'l Relations etc etc ... so if you open with ANY of that, you're not going to get 100% of my attention (though I try, I REALLY do try...)

Now, as Nostix said ... if you come in prepared ... with a list of specific questions, with some research completed so that we can at least have an intelligent conversation, and I know you're actually serious ... I'll take the time to help you figure out how to get where you want to go OR advise you on some alternatives to your plan.

Like a parent with their fourth child ... we've heard it all and you're not fooling anybody ... do your homework and I'll help with the parts you honestly need help with.

Mentor Hat off

Now jdalton ... maybe you can understand how 





			
				jdalton35 said:
			
		

> I just recently finished University. Completed a BA in Economics with a minor in Political Science.  I'm looking to enrol as a officer under the DEO plan. Not completely set on one particular trade


 could get you less-than-stellar Customer Service.

Otis


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## sky777 (10 Jun 2010)

I applied for DEO and  am in process now.
You can choose officer trade according your desire and if this trade is open.
Recruiter can  help you to choose kind of trade and how to fill form.
Go to http://www.forces.ca/html/index.aspx?m=0&lang=en&sid=81&sm1=2&sm2=0&content=81    and choose some trades and visit your CFRC and ask about opportunities.
Try to talk with another recruiter.
If you have any question - you can PM me.
Good luck!!!!


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## Franko (10 Jun 2010)

jdalton35 said:
			
		

> I just recently finished University. Completed a BA in Economics with a minor in Political Science. Graduated with a B+ GPA. Not amazing but still respectable. I have tried to contact the recruiting office but they don't seem very motivated to recruit me. I'm looking to enrol as a officer under the DEO plan. Not completely set on one particular trade but I am drawn towards *Armoured Recon.* Possibly Infantry. I have a good civie job right now making more than I would in the forces but I want to join the forces for mare than just the money. Just starting to get frustrated with what seems a lack of motivation from the recruiters I'm talking too. Is the CF not really looking for GSO currently? Any advise would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Justin



Here's a thought...do more research on the trade. Tons of threads are on this site that cover it and you'll be reading for a while.

It's recce, pronounced like the hockey player's name....not recon.

Regards


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## TimBit (11 Jun 2010)

Nostix said:
			
		

> Justin,
> 
> I understand how you feel. My first experience with the CFRC wasn't exactly how I pictured it either. Having a degree can certainly make you feel like a valuable asset that should be sought after. Even more so if you're used to dealing with civilian companies who are willing to roll out red carpets to try to grab a top graduate.  I know it was rather deflating for me to walk into the center expecting a recruiting pitch or a conversation, and getting “Yep, you’re qualified and the trade is open. Apply, or don’t.”



Dude, understand this. 
1. A good 25% if not more of teenagers go and get a degree. 4% continue on to Master`s. (my case). 0.4% continue on to PhD. So, fact , a degree is not THAT special.
2. Since Afghanistan, a lot of people want to enroll, particularly as Combat Arms Officers. They ALL have a degree. Fact 2, YOU are not that special.
3. Leading soldiers as an officer in the CF is a privilege. It takes switched on, keen individuals who know where they are going. This is what the recruiting center will look for. Of course, they are also there to counsel you, but you should have an idea of where you are going. When those types come in, that`s special. Otherwise, not really.
4. Facts 1,2 and 3 have brought thousands to the CFRC`s since 2001. They've seen it all. NOTHING is special anymore.

Now, they want to help you... but help them to help you!

Cheers!


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## jdalton35 (11 Jun 2010)

I was not meaning to imply by any means that I am special. I simply posted where I was at currently in life and wanted some advice. I mentioned the GPA because I noticed they differentiated on the application so I assumed they did care what your GPA was. This would make sense because hiring those who have the ability to do a masters in the future would be desirable, all things equal, to someone else who cant. I mentioned the fact I got a economics degree because I know its more mathematically intensive when compared do those who major in international relations etc. I know from looking around this site that the military desires those skills. I was simply stating my frustration in wanting to pursue a career in the CF and jobs being scarce right now. I understand that and was looking for advice. I never expected a red carpet. If I wanted that I would continue working civilian jobs. I want to become an officer because I feel I possess those leadership abilities and although I have allot to learn I feel I would be a good contributing member to the CF. I wanted advice. Didn't need to know the percentage of teenagers who get degrees. I learned that in school. 

Thanks to those who helped. 

Justin


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## Nostix (11 Jun 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> Dude, understand this.
> 
> ...



You stopped reading a little bit short, apparently.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (11 Jun 2010)

Hi Justin,

I'm a DEO and experienced a very similar 'lack of interest' when I was recruited nearly 20 years ago.  I had completed a BComm and was a serving militia officer.  The CFRC rarely called me back, frequently lost paperwork, and generally exhibited little enthusiasm.   You just need to stick with it and not let those distractions get to you.  

Regards,

Lex


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## jdalton35 (11 Jun 2010)

Thanks Lex,

That seems to be what I keep hearing. Got to really stick with it and pursue it if you want to get in. Cant expect the RC to do all the work. Got to go after it myself.

Cheers

Justin


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## kincanucks (11 Jun 2010)

"because they want to serve their country, they feel it's a noble profession, they believe in God and Queen and Country, blah blah blah ..."

So all that is blah blah to you is it?  In fact that is exactly why I joined 28 years ago and I didn't think it was blah blah then or now.  Perhaps that blah blah coupled with their hard work and qualifications to get in the CF makes them a pretty good candidate.  At least that is how I looked at when I was in recruiting.  Perhaps the system is spending too much time on the candidates who have all the checks in the boxes but have no sense of honour or duty?


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## ltmaverick25 (11 Jun 2010)

Guys, holy crap, take a step back and relax.  The original poster did not say anything at all that indicated he had a sense of entitlement or anything else that justifies that backlash.  The guy is keen and wants to be a leader in the CF and just so happens to have the educational requirements for a DEO, so sue him!

Let’s please not push people away that want to be a part of who we are.  

To Justin,

Recruiters can have a bad day just like everyone else.  Not everyone is a people person, not everyone got enough sleep the night before ect...  I understand the discouragement but don’t let it get to you.  I went through frustrating waits when I joined back in 93 and again in 08 for my CT.  If you read through the other threads you will see that many others also go through agonizing waits.  Don’t let the wait get to you and don’t let it change your mind.

As for advice, here is what I tell my friends who want to become officers and it has worked pretty well for them.

Go to the recruiting center in person, wear a jacket and tie at the least or full suit if you have one.  Shave, and get a decent military like hair cut.  You have no idea how many shaggy headed weirdoes’ walk in there…..

Also, make sure you have an official copy of your university and high school transcripts, your SIN card and an original copy of your birth certificate.  (They wont open a file on you until you bring in all of these items as of last time I helped a friend through this last year).

While you are there, ask them which officer trades are open for DEOs.  Once they give you the list, use the onsite resources to do a quick overview of the ones you think you are interested in.  Then, start asking your questions and take it from there.


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## Otis (12 Jun 2010)

Quick Post hijack:



			
				kincanucks said:
			
		

> "because they want to serve their country, they feel it's a noble profession, they believe in God and Queen and Country, blah blah blah ..."
> 
> So all that is blah blah to you is it?  In fact that is exactly why I joined 28 years ago and I didn't think it was blah blah then or now.  Perhaps that blah blah coupled with their hard work and qualifications to get in the CF makes them a pretty good candidate.  At least that is how I looked at when I was in recruiting.  Perhaps the system is spending too much time on the candidates who have all the checks in the boxes but have no sense of honour or duty?



It is NOT all "blah blah blah" to me ... HOWEVER ... 

1) when you hear that 50 times a day because some kid saw Rambo last night 
2) and HE thinks that's what I want to hear in order to allow him to "join the Army", 
3) AND he can't even be bothered to do ANY research in the jobs in the Army (or anything else for that matter), 
4) AND he comes in and tells me that he wants to "join the Marines" (because he saw a poster that read Navy/Marine on it) ...
you tend to start to hear "blah blah blah"

The POINT of my post was to let the OP know why he may have had less-than-enthusiastic service ... if someone comes in prepared and sincerely believes the "blah blah blah" (as opposed to trying to impress me) I will (and HAVE) bend over backwards to try to get them a career in the CF.

End of post hijack ... I won't do it again.


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## kincanucks (12 Jun 2010)

Otis said:
			
		

> Quick Post hijack:
> 
> It is NOT all "blah blah blah" to me ... HOWEVER ...
> 
> ...



Thank you for the clarification.  End of hijack 2.


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## northernboy_24 (12 Jun 2010)

Justin,
I am only a current DEO applicant (not a member).  However, if you go in with an attitude that you would be honored to have the position and have all the information about what the career is about then you are more likely to have a great response (not saying you didn't have all the info etc when you approached the recruiters).

I have had nothing but a great experience with the recruiting staff.  I have very much made it known that I would be honored to be a member and that I have researched the positions.  I also listen when they speak.  If they tell me something I make notes so that I don't ask the same question twice.  Cookies also help.  I will tell you I was 'that' person after they had helped me with everything that they could,  I brought in cookies.  Just as a thank you.

The last point is a curiosity point.  Where did you get your degree?  Was it Western or U of T by chance?

cheers


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## PegcityNavy (12 Jun 2010)

Do your research, that cannot be stressed enough, phone the recruiting center and ask if they can put you in touch with someone in the field you wish to pursue.

Read as much as you can about the position you are applying for. 

See if you can get a tour of your local reserves, I found it very helpful.


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## generalmeng (14 Jun 2010)

I'm in the processing of applying as well. I guess, my only advice is that, the demand is based on the trade.
Off to the side, I just graduated too, from UofT, anyone wanna compare GPAs? LOL


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