# Wearing of "team/roto" patches overseas.



## Kokanee (30 Oct 2007)

I've submitted an memo up my chain to allow members of my unit going over on roto to design and wear a "team/roto" patch on our arid combats overseas. Everyone up to my troop commander loves the idea, however they want "prior art" of this being acceptable before taking it to the CO... 

Have purused combat camera and it seems that most of the PRT teams are getting in-country made patches and wearing them, however other than that I can't seem to find any Canadian examples.

If anyone has gone through this process before, or has examples of previous endeavours, It would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## McG (30 Oct 2007)

I saw no such thing on my tour.  You may be seeing the ISAF patch when you go through Combat Camera.


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## JSR OP (30 Oct 2007)

There were all kinds of patches on Roto 3 in addition to the ISAF one.  I was at the PRT, and we had a patch.  Lets see...The medics had a "starlight" patch, JPCC had a patch, the UAV guys had a patch, the MPs had a patch.  I think the ASIC guys had one too.


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## dapaterson (30 Oct 2007)

CFP 265.  Canadian Forces Dress Instructions.  Might be a place to start.


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## lou-reed (30 Oct 2007)

I was on R3.  Most units, and sub-units had patches made.  However, they were not officially authorized to wear them- although they often did.  I do beleive that only the ISAF, PRT, TCCC, and Starlight patches were authorized.  

Making unit coins was a popular venture.  I know ASIC, C-IED, EOD had coins made.


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## McG (30 Oct 2007)

I should clarify, I did see a few patches appear unofficially.  These were quickly chased away by the CO who wanted everyone to see themsleves as being of the same team.  (I think his words were to the effect of avoiding tribes)

From a tactical perspective, does it make sense to start making individual soldiers recognizable to the enemy for thier function/capability?


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## Kokanee (30 Oct 2007)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> CFP 265.  Canadian Forces Dress Instructions.  Might be a place to start.



Thanks, found two applicable sections - doesn't look like there are any roadblocks in there.


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## medaid (30 Oct 2007)

This is my own personal opinion. I think the wearing of appropriate 'team', 'roto' or 'morale' patches is a good thing for the soldiers overseas. Our American counterparts have been doing that for quite a while now on their uniforms. An examples that we can adopt is the Team Canada patches, I don't know I just think the use of appropriate morale patches would boost well... morale!


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## Kendrick (30 Oct 2007)

Being on the PRT myself, all we get is the generic PRT patch with the Afghan/Canadian flags pin.  But I did see some sub units around having their own patches made.  Saw this cool one with the Autobots sign.


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## MG34 (30 Oct 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> This is my own personal opinion. I think the wearing of appropriate 'team', 'roto' or 'morale' patches is a good thing for the soldiers overseas. Our American counterparts have been doing that for quite a while now on their uniforms. An examples that we can adopt is the Team Canada patches, I don't know I just think the use of appropriate morale patches would boost well... morale!



AS the designer and owner of the Team Canada design I say nope bad idea,the only organization with rights to it's use is One Shot Tactical Supply, period full stop, despite this fact it has already been copied without permiion. If anyone is selling/making money from this including CF units (tour T shirts, atches, etc) they are breaking the law.


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## medaid (30 Oct 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> AS the designer and owner of the Team Canada design I say nope bad idea,the only organization with rights to it's use is One Shot Tactical Supply, period full stop, despite this fact it has already been copied without permiion. If anyone is selling/making money from this including CF units (tour T shirts, atches, etc) they are breaking the law.




What I mean MG was that they purchase it from OTS and wear it on their uniform. That's all I meant. Like I said it was a personal opinion nothing else. Btw, nice design I like it  I've got a few.


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## RHFC_piper (30 Oct 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> I should clarify, I did see a few patches appear unofficially.  These were quickly chased away by the CO who wanted everyone to see themsleves as being of the same team.  (I think his words were to the effect of avoiding tribes)




Heh... We (8 Pl, C Coy, 1 RCR) had 8 ball patches with "crazy 8s" stitched on it.   I wasn't there long enough to get mine in theater, but the boys wore them into battle a few times, and they were told to remove them a few times... but they always had them on, officially or not.


I don't see it as a really bad idea, but I can see it getting out of control.   When it gets down to Sections and individuals, it's gone too far.


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## Greymatters (30 Oct 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> AS the designer and owner of the Team Canada design I say nope bad idea,the only organization with rights to it's use is One Shot Tactical Supply, period full stop, despite this fact it has already been copied without permiion. If anyone is selling/making money from this including CF units (tour T shirts, atches, etc) they are breaking the law.



How did that happen?  I thought the CF usually grabbed property rights on approved stuff?


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## 1feral1 (30 Oct 2007)

Unit patches on tours are common and authorised for Australian Forces. We starting wearing ours on our lead-up trg, and all thru the tour, plus back home after the tour until we were SOS'd from our O/S Unit.

Here was mine, along with the Australian ANF DPDU patch, whcih is worn on the other sleve, both at home and abroad. The ANF patch also comes with a DPCU background also, and is worn all the time.

Here is both my old O/S Unit, and ANF patch in DPDU. Both patches are the same size, adn the 7.62mm drill rd is for scale.

EDIT: I have also attached an unauthorised patch for my Corps of RAEME, this is the sme size also. We were wearing this until the RSM seen it, and it was history (for now).


Cheers,


Wes


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## X-mo-1979 (30 Oct 2007)

"Crazy 8's" is what I seen on the cbc documentary.I've seen section level signs painted on vehicles as well.


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## Shamrock (30 Oct 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> How did that happen?  I thought the CF usually grabbed property rights on approved stuff?



That makes no sense.  It's his IP developed on his own time and for his own purposes.

Back to the point at hand: good to see some progress is being made.  I've found stuff like that to be espirit de corps and team building.


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## DirtyDog (30 Oct 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> AS the designer and owner of the Team Canada design I say nope bad idea,the only organization with rights to it's use is One Shot Tactical Supply, period full stop, despite this fact it has already been copied without permiion. If anyone is selling/making money from this including CF units (tour T shirts, atches, etc) they are breaking the law.



really, eh?  I didn't know.....

Incedently I got me one of those hats from OSTS.  Nice hat.


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## Good2Golf (31 Oct 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> ...From a tactical perspective, does it make sense to start making individual soldiers recognizable to the enemy for thier function/capability?



I think the way the guy is kitted out and conducted himself would be more of an indicator than a patch...you know, Tac Vest or chest rig with mags, frags, M203s, drop pouches, good barrel discipline, etc...


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## 1feral1 (31 Oct 2007)

The patches adn name tags come off for when its time to play sterile.

Plus it started a 'trade' war with other Coalition units, so bad we ran out of Australian made patches, and ahd to go local to source them.

Ha!

Cheers,

Wes


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## Kokanee (31 Oct 2007)

Thanks everyone for the thoughts/comments. Especially the Aussie items, very cool.


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## DesertVengeance (31 Oct 2007)

I found that most US combat units had patches out the wazoo.  I think my favourite was an OEF patch for 'Team America World Police' with a big mean looking eagle head.  I thought about designing a patch for our unit... but the logistics of it just wasn't something i wanted to deal with right now.  However in my ebay huntings I found a disgusting number of patches that would make pretty cool unit type items.  I'd suggest having a look on ebay for ideas if you're out of your own.  There's patches that can be bulk bought... or just simple symbols that you could adapt and turn into your own.  I mean i'm in Weapons Det and our call sign is 33 Whiskey so we all got Jack Daniels patches.  Nothing super creative.  But I like it.  I think my favourites though are the 'fun'/'suck' meter patches.


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## McG (1 Nov 2007)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I think the way the guy is kitted out and conducted himself would be more of an indicator than a patch...you know, Tac Vest or chest rig with mags, frags, M203s, drop pouches, good barrel discipline, etc...


and what of functions beyond just being a rifleman or being a cook?  Troop movements, rotations, and intentions can be given away if a recce party can be identified as being a specific BG rifle company, the PRT FP Coy, Combat Engineers, etc.  Yes, equipment does do a lot to give a way who a soldier is.  However, not every combat engineer carries a metal detector & individual weapons are the same as infantry (C7, LMG, M203, etc).  This means it is possible for unusual concentrations of other occupations may go unnoticed if they are not advertising themselves.


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## aesop081 (3 Nov 2007)

When we go flying operational, all badges come off.....

Theres a reason for that folks


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## X-mo-1979 (3 Nov 2007)

Just a quick question regarding the last post.For infantry units/front line combat arms why do we take off identification?Ive been told to remove my name,rank,and canadian flag on a recce patrol.Then told what to say if captured....the information that I had taken off.


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## George Wallace (3 Nov 2007)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Just a quick question regarding the last post.For infantry units/front line combat arms why do we take off identification?Ive been told to remove my name,rank,and canadian flag on a recce patrol.Then told what to say if captured....the information that I had taken off.



You aren't supposed to go out and get captured, but if you do, you give them the requisite information.  If you are not captured, only observed or perhaps KIA, then you have no identifying markings to let the enemy know who you are and who you are with.  Simple enough explanation?


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## Jammer (3 Nov 2007)

Jorge,
On ops last year, in fact we were instructed to wear National insignia as well as rank. However there were notable exceptions to the rule...


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## PuckChaser (3 Nov 2007)

R4 has a TF wide rule that says no patches are auth other than IR can flag, IR square patch, and ISAF. However, I see COMKAF HQ Patches and PRT patches all the time. If you wanted one made, I'd get them done, and keep them in your pocket as a keepsake, then put it in a frame with other collectables.


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