# CF Rank



## Ex-Dragoon (19 May 2007)

My apologies to those who use ranks like Sapper, Trooper etc.

Please pay attention to the last 4 options if they apply to you.


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## Mike Baker (19 May 2007)

Never had a CF Rank, yet.


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## navymich (19 May 2007)

Was PO2, now Cpl.  Still getting used to the new one, so I put mine in as the old one, and can only pick one!  Not that my AF rank is there.  You know, the whole no-rank-first-name-only thing.


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## aesop081 (19 May 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> Was PO2, now Cpl.



So the answer to the poll would have been CPL. You're not a P2 anymore, let it go


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## navymich (19 May 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So the answer to the poll would have been CPL. You're not a P2 anymore, let it go



That was the point to my post.  I put it in automatically and can't change it now.


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## Big Foot (19 May 2007)

Officer cadet, going on 5 years as one now. Oh well, at least it's only one more year  >


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## gaspasser (19 May 2007)

Good idea on the poll. 
Is this to see who the sm rt ones are, or just who has more time to waste... ;D      8)


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## IN HOC SIGNO (19 May 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> Was PO2, now Cpl.  Still getting used to the new one, so I put mine in as the old one, and can only pick one!  Not that my AF rank is there.  You know, the whole no-rank-first-name-only thing.



Once a sailor always a sailor... ;D


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## DC Roundsman (19 May 2007)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> Once a sailor always a sailor... ;D



That's for sure


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## medaid (19 May 2007)

an OCdt  oh well...


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## Ex-Dragoon (24 May 2007)

Thanks for the interest in this poll, I am disappointed that one may have spoiled it but there are idiots in every group.....yeah I am skeptical about the vote for General/Admiral, sorry I just cannot see the CDS or any one retired of that rank level voting. I was expecting the majority at this time to be corporals and leading seamen but the numbers in the Captain/Lieutenant surprise me.


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## vangemeren (24 May 2007)

I hope to be in the reserves this time next year holding the lofty rank of OCdt. But as of right now I have never held a military rank, not even cadets.


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## Disenchantedsailor (24 May 2007)

OCdt (and thats how I voted) for now, but come 14 Dec I get a xmas present and off to 2ly and lovely Gagetown for winter cocktails around a canteen cup and stove lol


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## medaid (25 May 2007)

van Gemeren said:
			
		

> I hope to be in the reserves this time next year holding the lofty rank of OCdt. But as of right now I have never held a military rank, not even cadets.



did you just say... 'LOFTY' rank?  ;D


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## SupersonicMax (25 May 2007)

2Lt so far... Hopefully Lt and Capt in the near-medium future...

Max


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## medaid (25 May 2007)

Hey Ex, you never know. I heard rumors that the boss comes on here often to read what some of the troops have to say. Maybe he got interested in your poll


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## retiredgrunt45 (25 May 2007)

Well the best rank in the military is leading right now, Corporal. Navy leading Seaman

 As I was a Cpl for life and loved every minute of it. At the end of my career as and older Cpl people tended to leave me alone, got all the cushy jobs and best postings, after all a Cpl can go and fit in anywhere, every body wants one. Want something done right, get a Cpl, want something in a hurry, ask a Cpl, Want to know how something works, ask a Cpl. Piss of a Cpl, you don't get anything... Didn't you know that Cpl's hold the keys to the pearly gates, its called QM, CQ stores and everyone thinks the quartermaster runs the show, ha, not likely... it's the Cpl's. Who's the first smiling face do you see when you walk into QM or your CQ stores, who serves you in the pay office, who tends to your BOO BOO's in the MIR.. a Cpl. 

And for all you infantry officers on phase training in good old Gagetown, want a few extra goodies on those torturous endless days and nights in the field, like say McDonald's,Wendy's, hot coffee or even an extra hay box of fresh rations or other creature comforts, get to know your storeman driver, yes its a Cpl, he is your best friend, he can get things for you, so be nice to him... He is the difference between you eating MRE's three meals a day or eating fresh rations and having fresh hot coffee at least once a day.


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## Staff Weenie (25 May 2007)

Yep, nothing like buttering up your Cpl Amb Driver....."Do ya think you could stop by Tim's on the way back from Pembroke General, I'm buying...."

For Officers, it'd probably Lt - you've probably got a Pl (when the Pl WO lets you play nice) and enough background to know who to go to in order to make it all work, and you're low enough that you can still point at your rank and say "I'm only an Lt, what the hell do I know?"


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## kratz (25 May 2007)

Leading Seaman here. I know many RMS Clerks in the Naval Reserve who do not want their leaf as it cuts employment prospects in half and more so with each promotion.


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## TN2IC (25 May 2007)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> Yep, nothing like buttering up your Cpl Amb Driver....."Do ya think you could stop by Tim's on the way back from Pembroke General, I'm buying...."




I know that saying a lot... and love it. ;D


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## Disenchantedsailor (25 May 2007)

don't suppose you rms types know any cpl rms clerks looking for a class b job in Victoria do you


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## Nfld Sapper (25 May 2007)

Cpl right now hoping to be appointed to MCpl in the next few weeks.


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## PMed (26 May 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> did you just say... 'LOFTY' rank?  ;D



 ;D ;D LOL


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## vangemeren (26 May 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> did you just say... 'LOFTY' rank?  ;D



Yeah, my light humour doesn't come across very well in type.


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## Greymatters (26 May 2007)

Id be interested to hear what rank 'no longer exists' in the CF...  would that be like 'Batboy' or one of the other former servant trades?


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## Ex-Dragoon (26 May 2007)

Pilot Officer , lance corporal etc

Batboy was a position never a rank...


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## Disenchantedsailor (26 May 2007)

Flight Lieutenant, flight Sgt, Skipper Lieutenant, the list goes on


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## exspy (26 May 2007)

ArtyNewbie,

Skipper Lieutenant?


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## gaspasser (26 May 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Id be interested to hear what rank 'no longer exists' in the CF...  would that be like 'Batboy' or one of the other former servant trades?


Hrrg, hmm...you mean Batman?
I beleive the British Navy stills holds them as the Captains Personal Steward??!!
Some of the previous mentioned ranks are for the Brit forces, I believe??!!


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## niner domestic (26 May 2007)

Any of the Wren ranks...they are all gone now.


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## gaspasser (26 May 2007)

...or Nursing Sisters?!


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## Disenchantedsailor (26 May 2007)

exspy said:
			
		

> ArtyNewbie,
> 
> Skipper Lieutenant?



A RNR and RCNR, RCNVR rank equiv to a LT(N) commissioned from the ranks, circa WWII, The Brits last used it in 1951, as for Canada I'm not sure when we stopped using it (probably around the time of unification)


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## IN HOC SIGNO (26 May 2007)

Midshipman...


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## Ex-Dragoon (26 May 2007)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Hrrg, hmm...you mean Batman?
> I beleive the British Navy stills holds them as the Captains Personal Steward??!!
> Some of the previous mentioned ranks are for the Brit forces, I believe??!!


Our ships still embark Stewards as well including one exclusive for the Captain. Some of the ranks were in use up until Unification.


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## gaspasser (26 May 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Our ships still embark Stewards as well including one exclusive for the Captain. Some of the ranks were in use up until Unification.


Yes, Steward is still a Navy trade and most are used on tour in Canex's or camp stores.  Batman was once also an Army tradition whereas a senior officer {Captain}would have an NCM [read private or corporal] to keep his kit and quarters neat and clean.


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## exspy (27 May 2007)

BYT Driver,

Batmen were more than just a tradition in the Canadian Army.  They occupied designated positions in Canadian War Establishments right up to the mid 1960s.  They weren't just allocated to senior Captains and up either, but to all officers (including the Subalterns).  One was even allocated to the RSM.  While my information is infantry specific, I would think it also applied to all of the arms and services.

One rumour I remember hearing was that a stint as an officer's batman was a sure fire route to a place on the Jr NCO course.

If anyone is familiar with George McDonald Fraser's "MacAuslan" trilogy of stories, the one where MacAuslan (the world's dirtiest soldier) becomes Lieutenant Dand MacNeil's (Fraser's pseudonym) batman is a must read.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (27 May 2007)

exspy said:
			
		

> BYT Driver,
> 
> Batmen were more than just a tradition in the Canadian Army.  They occupied designated positions in Canadian War Establishments right up to the mid 1960s.  They weren't just allocated to senior Captains and up either, but to all officers (including the Subalterns).  One was even allocated to the RSM.  While my information is infantry specific, I would think it also applied to all of the arms and services.
> 
> ...



Of course it all dates back to the days when officers were Aristocrats and brought their personal servants along when they went campaigning. all those blokes bought their commisions and were generaly officers in regiments that had an affiliation to their family name etc. the tradition lived longer than it should have probably but thank God it's gone now.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 May 2007)

Just a reminder, if we catch anyone checking a rank they do not have you will be banned. No appeals, no second chances, so if you want to come clean, now is the time to do it.

Army.Ca Staff


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (27 May 2007)

Ref Batmen, Farley Mowat gives a good account of his relationship with his batman in "And No Birds Sang" while he was a subaltern fighting in Sicily and Italy.


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## armyvern (27 May 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Just a reminder, if we catch anyone checking a rank they do not have you will be banned. No appeals, no second chances, so if you want to come clean, now is the time to do it.
> 
> Army.Ca Staff



I see your point here. It would now seem that we have more Generals per capita than NDHQ.  :-\

Especially when one takes away the 23 votes by pers whose ranks no longer exist, civilians, and cadets. That means we've got 2 generals in 171 votes. Someone is being an ass and impersonating a general me thinks...


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## geo (27 May 2007)

Vern,

Methinks you should remove the General votes.... Let whoever have a second chance / thought
I'm even somewhat suspicious of the other 3 CWO votes.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 May 2007)

They will have their opportunity if they come forward, if they don't and we find out who they are they will be _gone_. I IMed Mike about investigating this.


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## armyvern (27 May 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Vern,
> 
> Methinks you should remove the General votes.... Let whoever have a second chance / thought



Unfortunately Geo, that's not an poll option in this case. They can't go back and remove their vote to recast properly. Nor can I. I am unsure if the poll originator can do so either.

It just ruins the results...and casts the whole poll into the gutter. Sadly, I guess some people don't mind being dishonest when they have the ability to do so anonymously. 

I could live with the 1 vote. But 2 is just too much and puts a serious credibility issue into my mind.

As for the CWO votes...I have no doubt they are fine. I know some others on Army.ca who have probably voted.


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## Greymatters (28 May 2007)

Curious... is it not possible that we have Generals or Admirals on this site, or is that they just dont participate in these polls?


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## Yrys (28 May 2007)

It'S the ratio of Generals vs others that is in question...


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## McG (28 May 2007)

Yrys said:
			
		

> It'S the ratio of Generals vs others that is in question...


Yet, it is not impossible that there are two generals.  Maybe unlikely, but not impossible.


Anyway, the poll is now modified to allow users to change votes.  You can now be promoted & keep your answer current.


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## Disenchantedsailor (28 May 2007)

you'll notice that apparently there are 2 full generals in the poll, but thier is only one billet in the CF, the CDS, so unless he has a slip personality someone is doing some impersonating... That or all the retired CDS' are hanging out on Army.ca


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## armyvern (28 May 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> you'll notice that apparently there are 2 full generals in the poll, but thier is only one billet in the CF, the CDS, so unless he has a slip personality someone is doing some impersonating... That or all the retired CDS' are hanging out on Army.ca



Exactly.  Army.ca...home of more generals per capita than NDHQ.


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## Neill McKay (28 May 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> you'll notice that apparently there are 2 full generals in the poll, but thier is only one billet in the CF, the CDS, so unless he has a slip personality someone is doing some impersonating... That or all the retired CDS' are hanging out on Army.ca



Did we not just see a second General, a former CDS, retire from a senior appointment in NATO?  (Not that I'm suggesting that he and Gen Hillier are responsible for the two General responses in the poll, mind you!)


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## dapaterson (28 May 2007)

Yes, General Henault just retired (or is in the process of retiring).  And there are other former CDSes; provided you retire honourably with 10+ years of service you are entitled to use the term Rank (ret'd) after your release / transfer to the Supp Res.  Thus, there are a number of Generals out there yet...

...and though the poll is open to change, I'm confident that I'll have no need of that for quite some time... or I should add, no need to change anything upwards...


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## Greymatters (28 May 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> Exactly.  Army.ca...home of more generals per capita than NDHQ.



So...we need to add another rank?  "Armchair General"?


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## Bane (28 May 2007)

I am upset that there is no rank for Khan or Field Marshal, I guess I'll have to just vote as 'Foreign Military Personnel'


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## Ex-Dragoon (28 May 2007)

Bane said:
			
		

> I am upset that there is no rank for Khan or Field Marshal, I guess I'll have to just vote as 'Foreign Military Personnel'



:  Why not bother at all....


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## scoutfinch (28 May 2007)

Lt.


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## Blackadder1916 (28 May 2007)

exspy said:
			
		

> Batmen were more than just a tradition in the Canadian Army.  They occupied designated positions in Canadian War Establishments right up to the mid 1960s.  They weren't just allocated to senior Captains and up either, but to all officers (including the Subalterns).  One was even allocated to the RSM.  While my information is infantry specific, I would think it also applied to all of the arms and services.



From a publication titled "Corporal To Field Officer" 4th Edition, Lieut.-Colonel R.J.S. Langford, (Late Commanding Officer THE ROYAL CANADIAN REGIMENT and Late Commandant R.S.I. and M.G., Eastern Canada) The Copp Clark Company, Limited, Toronto 1940

Chap. II.  Sec. 14.  

14.  Soldier Servants

1.  The employment of soldiers *(when available*) as Officers' servants and grooms is sanctioned as an *indulgence*.

2.  Their pay as servant or groom is either $3 or $5 per month, depending on whether the Officer is married or single, and whether , in the case of grooms, there is one horse or two to be cared for.

3.  Soldier-servants should be selected from those who have at least 1 year's service.  The duties that they must perform in addition to their servant's duties are laid down in the unit's Standing Orders.

4.  Commanding Officers may permit Warrant Officers and certain N.C.Os. the use of a servant; he is called a "batman"; his pay is an appropriate rate laid down by the Commanding Officer.
K.R. Can. 1155-1161


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## razorguns (4 Aug 2007)

Specialist.  E-4.  I don't know what's the equivalent in the CF.  It's NCO, 2 levels above private.  1 level below Sergeant.

r


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## Mike Baker (4 Aug 2007)

razorguns said:
			
		

> Specialist.  E-4.  I don't know what's the equivalent in the CF.  It's NCO, 2 levels above private.  1 level below Sergeant.
> 
> r


Wouldn't that be Foreign Military Personnel?


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## MikeL (4 Aug 2007)

Equiv to E-4 is Cpl.

Also, I didn't think Specialist was an NCO rank, I thought Cpl was the first NCO Rank in the US Army.


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## Nfld Sapper (4 Aug 2007)

According to Defenselink.mil there is a Specialist (SPC) at the E4 grade.


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## MikeL (4 Aug 2007)

I never said it wasn't.  

E-4 is both Spc and Cpl. I just wasn't sure if Spc was considered a NCO rank, since from what I've heard says Cpl is the first NCO rank.

An the equiv to E-4(Spc/Cpl) in the CF is Cpl.


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## razorguns (4 Aug 2007)

My bad.  Corporal i believe is first 'semi' NCO rank.  But it's also E-4 so it's kinda confusing.  But E-5 is definately NCO.

r


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## Greymatters (4 Aug 2007)

Did we ever find out if we actually had 2 x General/Admirals on site?


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## NavyGunnerRTD (23 Aug 2007)

PO1 retired  8)


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## Disenchantedsailor (23 Aug 2007)

razorguns said:
			
		

> My bad.  Corporal i believe is first 'semi' NCO rank.  But it's also E-4 so it's kinda confusing.  But E-5 is definately NCO.
> 
> r


Cpl is the first NCO Rank as per QR&O Vol 1 Chap 1.02 http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol1/ch001_e.asp#1.02

"non-commissioned officer" means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal; (sous-officier)


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## Ex-Dragoon (23 Aug 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> Cpl is the first NCO Rank as per QR&O Vol 1 Chap 1.02 http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol1/ch001_e.asp#1.02
> 
> "non-commissioned officer" means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal; (sous-officier)



You do realize that razorguns is US Military and that they don't use the QR&Os....


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## 1feral1 (23 Aug 2007)

Left the CF in Jan 95 as a Sergeant with WO qualifications awaiting promotion.

Entered the Army here in March 1995 as a Temporary Sergeant, got my promotion courses within 12 months and kept my rank, so still a Sergeant in the Australian Army, and comfortable with that. My recent 5yr plan was go get my WO2 crown, then AWOCS myself to Captain, then discharge. That was my plan, now I am happy to coast until CRA as a Sergeant. 


Cheers,

Wes


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## Quag (23 Aug 2007)

Not that it matters, but just curious Wes what AWOCS means?  I know that it would be the equivalent to CFR or UTPNCM etc..., I'm just curious as to the terminology the Australian Army uses.  ( I lead a boring life ;D)


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Aug 2007)

Quag said:
			
		

> Not that it matters, but just curious Wes what AWOCS means?  I know that it would be the equivalent to CFR or UTPNCM etc..., I'm just curious as to the terminology the Australian Army uses.  ( I lead a boring life ;D)



Google is your friend. 1st hit for AWOCS:

*Army In-Service Commissioning Scheme (AICS) (Formally AWOCS)*

http://www.defence.gov.au/ARMY/apa_a/aswocs.htm

Army Senior Noncommissioned Officer and Warrant Officer Commissioning Scheme (ASWOCS) 

ASWOCS is a method by which Warrant Officers (WO's) and Non Commissioned Officers (NCO's) may apply for in-service officer commissioning. The scheme can provide a career change within the Army, where that change is in the interest of the Service. ASWOCS is not a promotion scheme. Candidates whose education, training and experience may be suited to officer appointments within the ADF, are selected to appear before an Officer Selection Board (OSB). Successful applicants will be offered employment as Specialist Service Officer (SSO) Service Commission (SC).

The commissioning of WO's and SNCO's as SSO SC is intended to meet specific employment needs of the Army.

Eligible applicants may apply for SSO SC commissioning, or be nominated by the Director Army Personnel Agency (DAPA). Candidates are assessed on suitability, employability, experience and skills.


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## Quag (23 Aug 2007)

Shoulda known haha...thanks RG!


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## dapaterson (23 Aug 2007)

Sounds about the same as the SRCP in Canada - something that the Army is now approaching CMP to implement in the Reserves as well as the Regular Force... imagine that - common policies between the components.  Will wonders never cease?


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## 1feral1 (24 Aug 2007)

Well done Recce!


 :cheers:

Wes


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## Disenchantedsailor (24 Aug 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> You do realize that razorguns is US Military and that they don't use the QR&Os....



Indeed but it provides some meat to an otherwise highly debatable post (there are some who still don't believe Cpl's are NCO's here in Canada)


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## geo (24 Aug 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Left the CF in Jan 95 as a Sergeant with WO qualifications awaiting promotion.
> 
> Entered the Army here in March 1995 as a Temporary Sergeant, got my promotion courses within 12 months and kept my rank, so still a Sergeant in the Australian Army, and comfortable with that. My recent 5yr plan was go get my WO2 crown, then AWOCS myself to Captain, then discharge. That was my plan, now I am happy to coast until CRA as a Sergeant.
> 
> ...



Sergeant is a good rank!
There are many days when I dream of shucking some of the burden of age & wisdom.  Return to a younger time when I didn't have such a high proportion of grey hairs ..... or should that be hairs, plain & simple?


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## geo (24 Aug 2007)

CFAO 11-14 -- SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS COMMISSIONING PLAN

ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENT
5.     To be eligible for consideration under the SRCP a member shall:
     a.   be a Canadian citizen;

     b.   be of CWO rank (MWOs may be considered on an exceptional basis);

     c.   Superseded by ADM(HR-Mil) Instruction 14/04

     d.   have been awarded within the past 12 months at least the minimum
          medical category for the officer MOC for which the member is
          being nominated.  Members with a medical category below that
          required for the appropriate MOC may be considered if found
          suitable for employment without restrictions by the Officer
          Career Medical Review Board.


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## Lumadue (29 Sep 2007)

Currently I'm an Ordinary Seamen, but i will be changing to Private by the end of my BMQ, i had gone on a pre-recruit course affiliated with the navy, but now I'm joining the infantry regiment in my hometown,


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## Signalman150 (29 Sep 2007)

Another "old rank" that I didn't see mentioned in earlier posts, was the "I'll put the fear of God into you" rank in the Canadian Army at one time --Staff Sergeant!

 I hadn't thought about the fact that the posn of "batman" might derive from rich officers (who'd bought their commision in the old British Army) bringing their servants with them.  One of the things I DO recall is that , in battle, the batman was used as an officer's personal messanger.  

Oh, and BTW, Sergeant.


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## blacktriangle (29 Sep 2007)

Pte. 

All I want is Cpl, unless I get into ROTP.


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## stealthylizard (29 Sep 2007)

I guess you learn something new every once in awhile.  I had always though that a person was an NCM until they achieve the rank of WO, which then makes them an NCO.


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## geo (30 Sep 2007)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> I guess you learn something new every once in awhile.  I had always though that a person was an NCM until they achieve the rank of WO, which then makes them an NCO.


Huh? nope.


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## Shamrock (30 Sep 2007)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> I guess you learn something new every once in awhile.  I had always though that a person was an NCM until they achieve the rank of WO, which then makes them an NCO.



NCO.  

NCM covers Pte to CWO while NCO is Cpl - Sgt.


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## Rayman (21 Oct 2007)

Air Cadet Corporal.


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## geo (21 Oct 2007)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> NCO.
> 
> NCM covers Pte to CWO while NCO is Cpl - Sgt.



... Sgt & above = Senior NCO


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## TCBF (21 Oct 2007)

NCM replaced OR (other ranks) in the mid 1980s.

Senior NCO was the ranks of Lance Sergeant, Sergeant and Staff Sergeant, but now only the rank of Sergeant exists as a Senior NCO. Thus, "The Warrant Officer's and Sergeant's Mess" is used rather than the senior NCOs mess.

'Senior NCM' is a mis-nomer.  One would never say "Senior Other Ranks"  before 1985, so one should not sat 'Senior NCMs' now.  After all, senior NCM could mean a grey-haired Corporal with 35 years of service.

NCM replaced OR, it did NOT replace NCO.


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## pbi (3 Nov 2007)

TCBF has it right. It's amazing how many people persist in confusing "NCM" with "NCO", or calling a  WO a "Senior NCO" (i think I've even been guilty of that one...) We may employ our WOs as NCOs (as opposed to the US/Russian system of "in-between" officers and NCM), but they are rightly referred to as "WOs".

Cheers


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## geo (4 Nov 2007)

PBI, I would venture to say that most WOs are comfortable with the concept of being senior "senior NCOs" (guilty of that too - and I have my warant framed - right here, next to me)

The US warrant officer is another animal completely.  Not comparable.  They are a class into themselves.


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## onecat (4 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> The US warrant officer is another animal completely.  Not comparable.  They are a class into themselves.



I'm not familiar with US warrents how are they different?


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## George Wallace (4 Nov 2007)

radiohead said:
			
		

> I'm not familiar with US warrents how are they different?



So we don't start duplicating what has already been posted, do a SEARCH.   There is already a lengthy discussion posted on the differences.



EDIT TO ADD:  Warrant Officers in the US and Canadian Armies - confusion re: status?


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## geo (4 Nov 2007)

US Warrant Officers are neither Officers nor NCOs

Candidates who successfully complete Warrant Officer Candidate School are appointed in the grade of Warrant Officer One. When promoted to Chief Warrant Officer Two, warrant officers are commissioned by the President and have the same legal status as their traditional commissioned officer counterparts. However, warrant officers remain single-specialty officers whose career track is oriented towards progressing within their career field rather than focusing on increased levels of command and staff duty positions.

They operate, maintain, administer, and manage the Army‘s equipment, support activities, and technical systems. WOs are competent and confident warriors, innovative integrators of emerging technologies, dynamic teachers, and developers of specialized teams of Soldiers. Their extensive professional experience and technical knowledge qualifies warrant officers as invaluable role models and mentors for junior officers and NCOs.”


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## BDTyre (4 Nov 2007)

Private Trained, on paper at least.

The uniform still says Private Recruit as no one can give me a straight answer as to when I'm officially allowed to wear the hook I was given or whether or not I'm supposed to wait for a CO's parade or what not.

My DEUs say Pte (T) though.


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## Stetson and Spurs (6 Nov 2007)

MCpl - Reserve, miss it very much.


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## Drif10 (11 Nov 2007)

master jack


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## adonis (11 Nov 2007)

How many years does it take to become a corporal from "scratch"? (Private Recruit)


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## mummiebear5 (12 Nov 2007)

Four years.  In special circumstances it may be 3 - 3 1/2 years.  Mods, correct me if I am incorrect please.


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## adonis (12 Nov 2007)

Well, I read on Wikipedia in the Reserves, it only takes 2 years?! That doesn't seem right to me...


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## medaid (12 Nov 2007)

It depends on component and trade. Question is too broad to answer.


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## YukonJack (13 Nov 2007)

CPO2HT....Yeah, and it's a sweet trade! 8)


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## BDTyre (15 Nov 2007)

As far as I'm aware, in the reserves it is two years, though most regiments prefer it to be two years + a QL4 course.  I know a guy who did his 404s before his infantry course and as soon as he got back from his infantry course, he was slotted on a DP2A (now know as IPWSQ4 or something like that) and received his promotion before he even left for course.  He's not been in 3 years yet.

I've been told I'm half eligibile - 2 1/2 years in, but no QL4 course.


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Nov 2007)

adonis said:
			
		

> Well, I read on Wikipedia in the Reserves, it only takes 2 years?! That doesn't seem right to me...



http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-05_e.asp

Should find what you are looking for there.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (15 Nov 2007)

OMG....I thought Wikipedia was the source of all wisdom!?


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## Rodahn (13 Dec 2007)

My response to this is "at what point in time in my career"? I've held many and give up such either voluntarily or otherwise.... >


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## pte.allen (14 Dec 2007)

I am a Pte. 17 years old, just got in


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## Kevin Pascal (14 Dec 2007)

21 years service. Recently remustered to AES Op. Currently hold rank of Sgt.


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## Stout (14 Dec 2007)

Soon to be Sapper Recruit at the end of january I head off to Basic. Can't Wait!!!!!!      :warstory:


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## Kevin Pascal (14 Dec 2007)

Stout said:
			
		

> Soon to be Sapper Recruit at the end of january I head off to Basic. Can't Wait!!!!!!      :warstory:



My hat is off to the younger generation that is filing into the recruiting centers these days. You are choosing a very honorable and rewarding career!


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## Stout (14 Dec 2007)

Kevin Pascal said:
			
		

> My hat is off to the younger generation that is filing into the recruiting centers these days. You are choosing a very honorable and rewarding career!



Thank you for the support. many of my friends can't believe that I have joined the CF, they think I am crazy for taking such a pay cut, however I have come to realize in my short 24 years of life that money isn't everything in life and if you want something bad enough you have to go for it regardless of what others may think of your choices.


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## Kevin Pascal (14 Dec 2007)

There is a wide variety of choices when selecting your trade for both commissioned and non-commissioned entry. I strongly suggest that the young folks joining today do some research and select the right trade for themselves right from the start. I changed trades after 16 years and couldn't be happier than where I am right now. It makes me wonder where I'd be today if I had joined this trade a lot sooner though.


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## Stout (14 Dec 2007)

I've been researching for about 2 years and have finally decided on Combat Engineer, I believe it is the best choice for a person such as myself and I think I have the skills to Excel in that trade.


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## aesop081 (14 Dec 2007)

Kevin Pascal said:
			
		

> I strongly suggest that the young folks joining today do some research and select the right trade for themselves right from the start.



And there is nothing wrong with people changing trades a few times either. I'm on my second MOC right now and my experiences in it have lead me to put in my paperwork for a third. It was never a question of my first ( or current) trade not being "right" for me. having a good time is what lead me to think i could try something new.


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## blacktriangle (14 Dec 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> And there is nothing wrong with people changing trades a few times either. I'm on my second MOC right now and my experiences in it have lead me to put in my paperwork for a third. It was never a question of my first ( or current) trade not being "right" for me. having a good time is what lead me to think i could try something new.



What's next?  ;D


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## niceasdrhuxtable (14 Dec 2007)

All roads lead to Air Navigator...in our trade anyway


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## aesop081 (14 Dec 2007)

niceasdrhuxtable said:
			
		

> All roads lead to Air Navigator...



No, thats not it.


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## Stout (14 Dec 2007)

Woohoo, I just got my job offer for the Canadian Forces. 5year contract as a Combat Engineer, I get sworn in on the 18th of Dec and they fly me out on the 5th of January 08 to start basic on the 7th. I cant friggan wait. anyone else starting basic on the 7th? :warstory:


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## BDTyre (14 Dec 2007)

Finally received my "promotion" to Private (trained).

Heheh...our pipe major, a CWO, just recevied his certificate on Wednesday...it was dated 1 July 200.  ;D


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## Shamrock (14 Dec 2007)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> Finally received my "promotion" to Private (trained).
> 
> Heheh...our pipe major, a CWO, just recevied his certificate on Wednesday...it was dated 1 July 200.  ;D



He's like 1800 years old.  Still about average for a CWO.


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## geo (15 Dec 2007)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> He's like 1800 years old.  Still about average for a CWO.



Nah... we just look old - from the weight of responsibility on our shoulders 

Your Pipe major is a CWO?
Is he also your unit's CWO/RSM?.. can't see him becoming a CWO any other way.­..  

WRT his getting his CWOs warrant dated 200?... methinks your missing a digit.  However, I'd say that it is typical for it to take anywhere from 6 - 12 months to receive it.


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## Chester Rush (16 Dec 2007)

Received my job offer and will be swearing in next week. Can't wait to start BMQ in Jan. I've written my Autobiography about 9 times over and have reorganized my suitcase about 20 times, guess I better find something better to do with my time while I wait, perhaps Christmas will fill some of that time


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## Penny (23 Feb 2008)

I'm always so curious about people who do dumb stuff on this site and get banned. (see above) 
I just don't understand why they engage such nonsense that would get them thrown off. Faking your rank? That's just wild. 

I'm not surprised that the majority of users of this forum appear to be in the lower ranks. As a OCdt myself,  I know I have a lot to learn and this is a great resource for finding information and getting leads on where to look for more. Plus, there are a lot of people in here who are long in the tooth. I've learned that if you ask them politely they will often share their personal experiences with you. Some will even offer advice and make recommendations.  Thanks.


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## Steel Badger (23 Feb 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Your Pipe major is a CWO?
> Is he also your unit's CWO/RSM?.. can't see him becoming a CWO any other way.­..



Many Reserve Unit's bands are separate units or at least have / had separate UIC's. This may be the reason they have CWO's in the PM role and Drummy as an MWO. It may also be a by-product of the tendancy to employ musicians at working ranks of Sgt and above. 

I remember working alongside the RCA band ( Regular Force) in '94. As memory serves the Band had 50 some odd pers. They had a CWO, 2-3 MWO, a raft of WO and Sgts, plus the odd MCPL or two. The working rank appeared ot be Sgt.


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## marshall sl (23 Feb 2008)

Sgt  Seaforth Highlanders of Canada  81-89


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## geo (24 Feb 2008)

Steel Badger said:
			
		

> Many Reserve Unit's bands are separate units or at least have / had separate UIC's. This may be the reason they have CWO's in the PM role and Drummy as an MWO. It may also be a by-product of the tendancy to employ musicians at working ranks of Sgt and above.
> 
> I remember working alongside the RCA band ( Regular Force) in '94. As memory serves the Band had 50 some odd pers. They had a CWO, 2-3 MWO, a raft of WO and Sgts, plus the odd MCPL or two. The working rank appeared ot be Sgt.


Changes are in the works within the bands.
CWO rank will be phased out - highest rank a bandsman can expect to obtail will be MWO.
Within the band structure, Ranks are based on their level of competentcy.... but they have to take the NCO leadership courses the same as everyone else....


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## armyvern (24 Feb 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Within the band structure, Ranks are based on their level of competentcy.... but they have to take the NCO leadership courses the same as everyone else....



Yes ... we had a female "with the band" on our JLC with us; a mere two years in, but she could play a mean flute and she needed to pass that JLC before they could promote her up to the rank her "skills" had decided she should be. Tonnes of extra hours spent in the evenings trying to get her to sort herself out, get a military bone in her body, and stop crying and shaking when standing in front of us (in a shack room) to practise her instructional techniques for her lessons.

It was pretty sad actually. Instructing drill was a nightmare (with more crying on the parade square) and her small party tasking definitely did not go over so well. But heck, she passed ... and picked up her new rank on grad parade (bear marching back to the ranks afterwards -- must be something about marching without an instrument in their hands that rendered her marching ability useless). The rest of us just shook our heads. 

Why bother sending her on a Leadership course?? -- Her passing the course was a given from the get-go (and was quite obvious to all of us), and all her being there did was piss the rest of us off who saw course-mates who fared better, paraded in front of CRBs while she never ended up gracing their presence ... mysteriously. It was a situation that was 150% NOT conducive to good moral. Quite the eye-opener actually.


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## geo (24 Feb 2008)

Shoulda been good grounds for those who did get bounced to file a grievance - WRT fair and impartial treatment.

I witnessed the opposite out of LFQA's battle school...  musicians DID require a lot of coaching and help - some passed, some did not.  Those who did not cut the mustard did not pass "GO!", did not collect 200$, they went back to their unit...


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## veale (10 Mar 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> It depends on component and trade. Question is too broad to answer.




In the Infantry in the Reserves you get permonted two years after your swear in date as long as you are DP 2A Qualified, althought some times you only need DP 1


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## medaid (10 Mar 2008)

veale said:
			
		

> In the Infantry in the Reserves you get permonted  *promoted*two years after your swear in date as long as you are DP 2A Qualified, althought some times you only need DP 1



....original poster did not specify component, element (Pte Recruit could be either AF or Army), or trade that's why I said it was too broad to answer.


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## Shamrock (10 Mar 2008)

veale said:
			
		

> In the Infantry in the Reserves you get permonted two years after your swear in date as long as you are DP 2A Qualified, althought some times you only need DP 1



Does getting permonted hurt?


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## TCBF (10 Mar 2008)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Does getting permonted hurt?



- Permonted: verb, to undergo permontation (colloquially: permonting), original Cdn Mil slang meaning: to undergo a warm Pepsi-Cola enema while hungover.


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## Loachman (10 Mar 2008)

And did that make you feel any better?


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## geo (11 Mar 2008)

TCBF... TOO MUCH INFORMATION!


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