# Canada's first battle of WW2



## patrick666 (5 Apr 2005)

Does anybody know the time and place of Canada's first battle during WW2 also who was involved(edit: by that I mean, which regiments/battalions etc..)?

Cheers


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## George Wallace (5 Apr 2005)

You'll have to be more specific if you want to ask questions like that:

Land?

Sea?

or Air?


Continental, at sea, Europe or Asia?

Would you consider the troops who went to Hong Kong or not?

How about those who went to places like Jamaica?


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## patrick666 (5 Apr 2005)

What was the first conflict for Land, Sea, AND Air, then through-out the world... 

Why were Canadian troops in Jamaica???


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## George Wallace (5 Apr 2005)

The RCR were sent there to defend the Island, when the British recalled all their troops home.


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## patrick666 (5 Apr 2005)

_The Defence of Hong Kong

It was in the defence of Hong Kong in 1941 that Canadian soldiers were first committed to battle during the Second World War.

As tension in the Pacific grew, the vulnerability of the outpost of Hong Kong became more and more apparent. It was recognized that in the event of a war with Japan, it could neither be held nor relieved. Hong Kong would be considered an outpost to be held as long as possible, but without further reinforcement.

This decision was reversed late in 1941 when it was argued that the situation in the Orient had altered, that the defences in Malaya had been improved; and that Japan was showing a certain weakness in her attitude towards the United States and Great Britain. The reinforcement of Hong Kong would, it was believed, serve as a deterrent to hostile action by Japan, and would also have an important moral effect throughout the Far East by reassuring the Chinese under Chiang Kai Shek of the intention to hold the colony. Accordingly, Canada was asked to provide one or two battalions for the purpose.

The battalions chosen to represent Canada in Hong Kong were The Royal Rifles of Canada and The Winnipeg Grenadiers. Both had recently returned from garrison duties in areas adjacent to Canada: the Winnipeg Grenadiers (commanded by Lt.-Col. J.L.R. Sutcliffe) from Jamaica; and the Royal Rifles (commanded by Lt.-Col. W.J. Home), from Newfoundland.



The Canadians, commanded by Brigadier J.K. Lawson, sailed from Vancouver on October 27, 1941 in the Awatea, escorted by HMCS Prince Robert. The embarkation strength of the force was 96 officers (plus two Auxiliary Services supervisors) and 1,877 other ranks. The 212 vehicles assigned to the force left a few days later on the freighter Don Jose. These vehicles were never to reach Hong Kong. The Don Jose had only just reached Manila when the war with Japan began, and the United States forces were given approval to use the Canadian equipment in the defence of the Philippines.

On November 16, the Awatea reached Hong Kong where the Canadian troops were ceremonially greeted by the Governor, Sir Mark Young, and the G O C British troops in China, Major-General C.M. Maltby.

These Canadian units had not received all the required training for front line troops, but war with Japan was not considered imminent. It was believed that they were going to Hong Kong for garrison duty, and that there would be plenty of opportunity for further training. Yet, only three weeks later, they were to become the first Canadian soldiers to fight as a unit in the Second World War, when in almost simultaneous attacks on Pearl Harbor, Northern Malaya, the Philippines, Guam, Wake Island and Hong Kong, Japan brought war to the Pacific. _-
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/asia/defence

So Canadians were training in Japan when the pacific theatre began and they hightailed it out?

What were Canadians defending Jamaica from?

Cheers


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## Gunner (5 Apr 2005)

> So Canadians were training in Japan when the pacific theatre began and they hightailed it out?



You lost me???   ???  All those years of university have gone to waste...


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## patrick666 (5 Apr 2005)

"These Canadian units had not received all the required training for front line troops, but war with Japan was not considered imminent. It was believed that they were going to Hong Kong for garrison duty, and that there would be plenty of opportunity for further training." 

Did I interpret that wrong and it really implies that were GOING to go over to Japan but didn't?


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## Gunner (5 Apr 2005)

They were sent to augment the garrison at Hong Kong which was a British crown coloney at the time.  There has been considerable discussion about whether Mackenzie King should have sent the two battalions considering war against Japan was likely and Hong Kong was strategically undefendable.  The battalions arrived, without their vehicles, etc and within a couple of weeks, Japan declared war against the US and Britain, and launched an offensive against Hong Kong.  Defeat followed shortly after and many long years of internment in Japanese POW camps.


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Apr 2005)

Reading comprehension is an important skill.  Nowhere in anything I read there does it say Canadian soldiers were going TO Japan.  They were going to war WITH Japan, and going to Hong Kong to defend the island as was pointed out.

The first Canadians to see land action were the 1st Brigade of the 1st Division, who landed in France shortly after the fall of Dunkirk.  They were withdrawn before meeting the enemy, though one chap was killed in a motorcycle accident and I think 5 men were left behind, with two of them finding their way back?

Canadians also landed at Spitsbergen in 1941 (?) but found the enemy had evacuated the island - elements of the First Division made up this force as well.

The Carleton and York regiment participated in a Commando Raid on Hardelot in 1941 or 42, but the boats they were in never actually landed.

So there were some false alarms early in the war as far as war on the Continent (or north Atlantic in the case of Spitsbergen) went.


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## patrick666 (6 Apr 2005)

I had Tokyo and Hong Kong all mixed up in my head...  :rocket: 

What were they attempting to do in Spitsbergen?


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Apr 2005)

Patrick H. said:
			
		

> I had Tokyo and Hong Kong all mixed up in my head...  :rocket:
> 
> What were they attempting to do in Spitsbergen?



Deny the island, and its resources, to the enemy.  I believe there were ore mines there.

This is all laid out in C.P. Stacey's THE CANADIAN ARMY 1939-45.  It is the official history, and should be in your university library.  Hardcover, red cover, I'd recommend checking it out, then asking any other questions you might have after taking a look.  Also try and find WE STAND ON GUARD, a great history of the Canadian Army from pre-Confederation to the end of the 20th Century.  Big hardcover with blue dustjacket, might be in your university library as well, or your public library.  If not, get it on interbranch loan.


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## patrick666 (6 Apr 2005)

Did Canada have any land forces during the North Africa campaign or was it mostly RCAF and other Navy elements? Or did their first major offensive begin in Sicily?


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Apr 2005)

Patrick H. said:
			
		

> Did Canada have any land forces during the North Africa campaign or was it mostly RCAF and other Navy elements? Or did their first major offensive begin in Sicily?



This is all covered in the books.  Several hundred Canadian soldiers fought in North Africa as part of the British Armies there (primarily the 1st Army, I think), to gain battle experience, generally senior NCOs, warrant officers and officers, while posted to British units.  The first formed units to see action were in Siciily, 1st Division and 1st Army Tank Brigade.


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## patrick666 (6 Apr 2005)

Cool, thanks Mike.  

Cheers


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