# DND 419 Issue



## BarrySweetman (22 Jun 2020)

Here's my story

Born In Germany 1964 Lars/BadenBaden/Zweibrucken. I think Dad was stationed at Lars (He flew CF-104's carrying a nuclear weapon - bit of Canadian history there), the Hospital in Baden Baden and perhaps the district is Zwiebucken?

I had a DND 419 and as far as I know my Birth was registered in Canada by the DND.

I've lost all my ID (fire) and I'm being told I have to apply for Citizenship so I can get proof of my Citizenship. Bit of a rub, but ok.

Step one in applying is establishing your identity. The list of documents on the Canadian Immigration website says its incomplete but no link to find what the complete list is. I'm unable to fulfill the requirements listed as I've lost all my ID. My Dad, who just passed away, has the manilla coloured paper issued by the hospital where i was born. I'm working on getting access to it as its in his room in a retirement home.

Local MP is all but useless. 

I looked around a bit and don't see a resolution. Does anyone know or have suggestions on how to navigate this mess?


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## Blackadder1916 (22 Jun 2020)

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/contact-us/military-records.html



> Birth certificates
> If you were born at a military base outside of Canada, and you wish to obtain your birth certificate, contact Citizenship and Immigration. They should have your Birth Certificate or Birth Abroad Certificate on file as it is needed to issue your citizenship or passport.
> 
> If they do not have the required documents on file, submit a request to Library and Archives Canada for your mother or father’s military records. When you were born, your birth certificate would have been added to your parent’s personal file(s) to commence benefits.


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## mariomike (23 Jun 2020)

BarrySweetman said:
			
		

> Born In Germany 1964 Lars/BadenBaden/Zweibrucken.



See also,

Military Brats Born Oversea's 
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/26123.50
4 pages.


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## BarrySweetman (6 Jul 2020)

Thank you all for the outpouring of help. Sarcasm aside, thank you Blackadder1916 and mariomike for suggesting resources. Citizenship and Immigration know nothing of the ability to issue the Birth Abroad Certificate - they say I'll have to apply for a citizenship certificate which is impossible without ID, and military records will only list the fact they registered the birth abroad.

I'm about to end up destitute as my dad has always helped out with banking needs. I'm in serious need of help. Does anyone have any suggestions? Has anyone else been able to navigate this mess?


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## PMedMoe (6 Jul 2020)

You might try contacting a Legion to see if they can be of any assistance.


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## ModlrMike (6 Jul 2020)

You seem to have hitched yourself to the DND 419. I would point out that the citizenship website clearly states:



> Because the DND 419 is not a legal citizenship status document, officers cannot confirm citizenship status with it. DND 419 holders must submit an application to obtain a citizenship certificate.



Given the foregoing, your best bet is to obtain a copy of your father's death certificate. From there, you can apply for a copy of his service records. As Blackadder has pointed out, a copy of your birth certificate should reside there.

Additionally, I presume that at some point in time you had to supply someone with proof of ID (work, school etc). Can you not retrace your steps and see who you might have provided copies to? 

Finally, you may need to engage a professional researcher or advocate, the costs notwithstanding.


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## Blackadder1916 (6 Jul 2020)

BarrySweetman said:
			
		

> Here's my story
> 
> Born In Germany 1964 Lars/BadenBaden/Zweibrucken.



Lars?  Never heard of it.  Do you mean Lahr?  If you were born in a Canadian military hospital, your birth would still have to be registered with the local German authority.  Back in the 1960s (I'm assuming you were born between 1967-69, the short overlap when we had forces at Lahr and Zweibrucken), I'm not sure of the admin procedures that would have happened for new brats, whether the parents directly registered the birth at the Standesamt or whether the Base Orderly Room assisted in the process so it would be hit or miss on which Standesamt would be able to provide you a birth certificate.  In Germany, you obtain birth certificates from a lower level of government than here in Canada.

https://canada.diplo.de/ca-en/consular-services/familymatters/birth-certificate-from-germany/1125600


> How to obtain a birth certificate from Germany
> To obtain a birth certificate from the Federal Republic of Germany, you must contact the competent German agency (i.e. the “Standesamt” or Registrar's Office). Your letter should be addressed to the Standesamt of the place (Village, Township, City) where you were born. You can find the contact information for your Standesamt by searching the World Wide Web for the key words: Standesamt+place where you were born.
> 
> The German phrase for asking for an international* birth certificate is:
> ...



You'll have to figure out where you were born and at which registrar's office it was registered.  That should be in your father's military records - the link for the procedure to request those is in my previous post.

Have a look at these.  Your situation isn't new, nor is it unique.  Nor is it difficult (though it remains irritating) if you just follow the directions.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/der-kanadier-cfb-lahr/obtaining-german-birth-certificate-addresses/10156361119255225/

http://www.badenremembered.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3790

If you were born before 14 May 1968, then it would not have been at the Canadian hospital in Lahr.

http://www.c-and-e-museum.org/rcaf-atc/photos/lahr/lahr-90.jpg

Oh, since this is a question I've been asked in the past - no, there will probably (almost definitely) be no hospital records pertaining to you that could be used to get what you want.  They will have been destroyed by now.  How do I know?  I was the last Hospital Administration Officer in both Baden and Lahr - I closed both hospitals.


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## BarrySweetman (8 Jul 2020)

Again, I appreciate all the help.

"manilla coloured paper issued by the hospital where i was born" as it turns out is the Standesamt issued birth certificate. Unfortunately this is only one piece of the puzzle and gets me nowhere. I have a peice of paper that proves a person was born.

I'm going to have to bite the bullet at this point and lawyer up.


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