# Air Reserve Questions:



## foxtwo (20 Mar 2005)

Hey I had a few questions about the Air Reserve. I was hoping someone in the Reserves can help me out here please 

1) Would you meet at an air force base or wing?

2) How often would you go?

3) Can you be a pilot and in the reserves or does it have to be Reg Force?

4) Would it interfere with school?

And also I am aware that you must have a Degree in order to become a pilot, so can you train to be a pilot and go to RMC at the same time or something. It's really confusing and I'm trying to choose a career track to sorta follow. Any replies are appreciated.

FoxTwo


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## mdh (21 Mar 2005)

foxtwo,

This question has been answered before so you may want to check the archives.

Unfortunately, your chances of becoming a pilot through the air reserve are next to nil - most reserve pilots are ex-regs and if you go on the air reserve web site you will see that they require skilled applicants for the trade.

(A tiny number of helicopter pilots are accepted but they need a commercial ticket (IIRC) and an instrument rating - which in the civvie helo world means lots and lots of money for training to get those basic qualifications.)

And yes it would interfere with school because the air reserve runs courses at all times of year - not just the summer. And yes the air reserve unit is usually housed at the local base/wing.

I'm sure some of the pilots here might be able to provide more detail - but that's the gist of it,

cheers, mdh


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## Inch (21 Mar 2005)

The Air Reserve is quite different from the Army Reserve. As mdh said, it's not just a weekend/summer job and it's mostly geared towards ex-RegF personnel, or at least the highly technical trades are. Most trades in the Air Force require quite extensive training, pilot training for example is around 18 months long. Most other trades are similar, thus it's not something that can be done on weekends.

If you choose to go Regular Force and you're accepted for pilot, you will only do the primary flight training during school. The rest of the training is completed after you're finished at RMC, again, the reason for this is the length of pilot training.

If you're looking for a part time job with the Reserves while you're in high school, the Army is the only real option, maybe the Naval reserves but I don't know a whole lot about them. Air Reserve is usually not possible for most people.


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## foxtwo (21 Mar 2005)

*Thanks for all the replies everybody, I did actually read several of the other posts but my questions were meant to be more specific. If I'm not specific enough, please notify me.* 

   Awesome, so I can first only be in the army reserves and then switch elements after school and keep the reserves as like a part time job for high school?

   Thanks for the reply mdh. I know you are probably thinking I am one of the many thousands of people that THINK they want to be in the airforce as a pilot. But I haven't made this decision to follow this path over night. Even though I'm 14, I am currently an extremely devoted air cadet striving to get both glider and power scholarships like many others. I am physically fit, perfect vision, excellent hand/eye coordination ( thanks to video games  like in so many research stats ) and love military life. By the time I am ready to graduate high school and am done my degree I bet the number of pilots will decline due to them getting to old.

 Since there is already a shortage or need for more pilots now, and so many people in this generation being obese and what not  I think I would stand a good candidate don't you think? My average in high school is 85 also ( academic courses ) so I'm not that stupid ;D

   I am aware that all my dreams could be shattered if I cannot pass the ACS for whatever reason since it's so hard, but I think I would be a candidate worth the testing. Thats why I want to make a back-up or something to fall on if I don't make it. I will most likely take work either in Law Enforcement or join the army.

   But what is seriously bugging me is if it is banned to be a cadet and in the army reserve at the same time or is that a mix? or does my squadron _have_ to know...? >

   I'm sure this has been answered numerouse times, but how often do you meet at an army reserve unit ( I'm close to one ) and will it inteinterfereh Secondary school and are you obligated to stick with them for a period of time and can I change elements?


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## infamous_p (22 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> *Thanks for all the replies everybody, I did actually read several of the other posts but my questions were meant to be more specific. If I'm not specific enough, please notify me.*
> 
> Awesome, so I can first only be in the army reserves and then switch elements after school and keep the reserves as like a part time job for high school?
> 
> ...



wow.. 14 years old?

those are some fine writing skills if you ask me.

I'd allow someone of a more expanded knowledge answer your first few questions, but with regards to your last two questions, you meet at the army reserve unit once a week on your unit's parade night. The Army Reserve will only interfere with your secondary school IF you let it. It is designed not to conflict.

all the best.. work toward your dreams


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## Inch (22 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Awesome, so I can first only be in the army reserves and then switch elements after school and keep the reserves as like a part time job for high school?
> 
> Thanks for the reply mdh. I know you are probably thinking I am one of the many thousands of people that THINK they want to be in the airforce as a pilot. But I haven't made this decision to follow this path over night. Even though I'm 14, I am currently an extremely devoted air cadet striving to get both glider and power scholarships like many others. I am physically fit, perfect vision, excellent hand/eye coordination ( thanks to video games  like in so many research stats ) and love military life. By the time I am ready to graduate high school and am done my degree I bet the number of pilots will decline due to them getting to old.
> 
> Since there is already a shortage or need for more pilots now, and so many people in this generation being obese and what not  I think I would stand a good candidate don't you think? My average in high school is 85 also ( academic courses ) so I'm not that stupid ;D



Yes, you can, I was an Armoured Crewman in the reserves then when I finished High school, I released to go to College, I then joined the RegF for pilot.

There is a shortage, but standards still have to be met and nothing is guaranteed. It's a strange trade like that, the standards will never be lowered, or very rarely since when that happens, people get killed. I've seen guys fail out a week before getting their wings and that's the end of the dream. 

Obesity is not really as big a problem as you may believe, it's the eye sight requirements that usually ends most potential pilot's aspirations before they barely get their foot in the door. Obesity can be fixed too, eye sight can't, at least not in a way that satisfies the CF.


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## mdh (22 Mar 2005)

Wow is right - I wish I had been that focused at 14 -    but foxtwo if I can play the role of boring old guy for a second don't get too focused to the exclusion of everything else. 

As Inch rightly noted:



> There is a shortage, but standards still have to be met and nothing is guaranteed. It's a strange trade like that, the standards will never be lowered, or very rarely since when that happens, people get killed. I've seen guys fail out a week before getting their wings and that's the end of the dream



I've known a few guys (from my Air Cadet days to the present) who didn't make it either - and they were practically genetically engineered from birth to get into the trade - some didn't get over it. (others got in because one day they thought it would be "cool" to be a pilot and sailed through ACS like it was a picnic - go figure)

Life has a way of throwing curve balls and in the end a career is just a job (albiet CF pilot is one of the better ones if you have to work for a living - even if you get stuck in Cold Lake ;D).

Good luck I know you'd make a fine addition to the CF, mdh


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## foxtwo (22 Mar 2005)

Thanks for the complements guys (lol), I'm flattered. I'm thinking more and more army reserve during high school. I live about 15 minutes from the Lorne Scots Regiment meets up. I think I would nail it. I know my drill, navigation, standard first aid and can go on and on. After looking at this clip, http://www.army.dnd.ca/LORNE_SCOTS/content/BMQ_WM.wmv it's pretty informing and is just what I'm into. 
   Just one question remains though. CAN I BE A CADET AND RESERVEST AT THE SAME TIME? Or will I have to quit cadets. Last night I found out that one of my newly promoted Sgt's who transfered from Etobicoke _was_ in the Lorne Scots. I would try to ask him next Monday night but I am just to anxious to decide my job/career now (yes I am not the average kid ).

  Oh and I just found out that their parade is on Thursdays, same day as Ground School! :crybaby: I'm screwed.

   So please can someone try to dig up and see it the cadet+reseves is a myth. And thanks for all your replies, especially mdh.

Thanks,

foxtwo


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## Inch (22 Mar 2005)

I don't think there's any rule against it, though I don't have a reference for that.  IMO, I would advise against doing both, I quit cadets when I got into the Reserves. No time for both and the Reserves was way more fun, no responsibility and pretty decent pay checks. Unless you have an inferiority complex and need to be the man of the hour, go for the Reserves. I don't regret that decision at all.


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## Garbageman (22 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> CAN I BE A CADET AND RESERVEST AT THE SAME TIME?



Short answer, YES.  CATO 13-7: http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1307_b.pdf

But why would you want to do both at the same time?  And while I think Inch's advice is sound, I would say you'd be better off staying in cadets and doing the reserves later.  If you want to be a pilot in the CF, getting your wings for free through cadets first would definitely help.  You can always join the reseves when you're in college or university, but once you're 19 there's no going back to cadets, and no second chance on those power or glider wings (or an International Exchange, Senior Leaders Course, etc.).

Just a thought.


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## foxtwo (22 Mar 2005)

I see what you mean guys. Thanks for that link Inch, its GOLD  can't wait to show that to my officer.
I want to be a pilot. I want to be in the reserves as a part time job. Cadets is limited, reserves isn't. When I graduate I'll either continue on if I qualify for the ACS. You people are really smart and helpful. Good reflection on the CF as a whole.    So I guess for now I'll have to find a boring Civilian job instead and won't be able to fire the C7 (my dream lol). Or would I be able to work at the Lorne Scots some how?. Oh and by the way, do you get to fire the C7 on the BOTC or just the stupid daisy's :?


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## mdh (22 Mar 2005)

garbageman beat me to it - although when I was a cadet I couldn't wait to get out and join the army reserve since I despised my squadron leadership - but that's another story   .

If you want to fly then try and get your wings - it's one of the great perqs of being an air cadet and considering the cost of getting a private licence it's a nice way to get some experience.

But Inch is ultimately correct IMHO - I think you will find the army reserves a whole different world and you will be doing more interesting and exciting things - but at 14 years old what's the hurry? You've got loads of time to make a decision and you won't really be able to join the reserves until you're 17 (even if you can initiate the application at 16 with parents permission IIRC)

cheers


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## Inch (22 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> I see what you mean guys. Thanks for that link Inch, its GOLD  can't wait to show that to my officer.
> I want to be a pilot. I want to be in the reserves as a part time job. Cadets is limited, reserves isn't. When I graduate I'll either continue on if I qualify for the ACS. You people are really smart and helpful. Good reflection on the CF as a whole.     So I guess for now I'll have to find a boring Civilian job instead and won't be able to fire the C7 (my dream lol). Or would I be able to work at the Lorne Scots some how?. Oh and by the way, do you get to fire the C7 on the BOTC or just the stupid daisy's :?



Again, I can't stress it enough, cadet wings won't mean jack in the CF. I know just as many, probably more, that got through ACS and got their CF wings with zero experience prior to joining the CF. It's one of those things that either you've got it or you don't. Sure a PPL may help you through ACS and Primary Flying Training, but if you lack the skill required, it'll catch up with you at some point. The military is very demanding flying and if you're a mediocre pilot that skates by then even 1000 hrs experience won't help you, and yes, I know a few ex-Air Cadets with their power wings that failed out of the CF pilot training.

Another thing to keep in mind, if you only want to be a pilot and you choose to go to RMC or a Civilian University under ROTP, you owe 5 years after you graduate, even if you fail out of pilot training. So you had better be sure about committing 9 years of your life to a job that you may not want to do.

I don't mean to sound all high and mighty or that it's an impossible thing to accomplish, I just want to make sure you and others understand what you're getting into. It's not an easy road, it's a very humbling experience and you'll have some very good friends that won't make it. That's a part of the path you've got to walk to be a CF pilot. This is stuff the recruiters won't tell you because it's the bad things. If it's what you really want, then give 100% in everything you do, if it doesn't work out for you then it wasn't meant to be and there's no shame in that.

Oh and as a reservist, you'll fire the C7 all the time, well, not all the time but you'll get to shoot a fair bit and you'll never touch a Daisy again.


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## foxtwo (22 Mar 2005)

Yeah that's what I'm talking about .
Again I can't stress it enough what a great help all of your replies are.

This is my summer courses ASSUMING that I will make them all (which I should, since I'm so good   8)obsessed with cadets with my "never missed a parade night or exercises or tagging or poppy selling" record. How else can I get the officers to notice me so I get promoted?)

14 - gr8 Basic 2004
15 - gr9 ITAC 2005 (introduction to aviation)
16 - gr10 Glider
17 - gr11 Power
18 - gr12 (NO MORE GROUND SCHOOL!) should I take exchange or something or join Reserves 8)
19 - No more High school  ? ACS or Army Or Reserves/then Law Enforcement like my older sister? (Either way I'm getting a degree maybe RMC I am not sure...

thanks,

foxtwo

oh ya and Inch is my new hero   8)


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## mdh (22 Mar 2005)

> oh ya and Inch is my new hero



Sigh, you pilot types get all the glory, oh well back to the PAFFO salt mine,   :'(

cheers all, mdh


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## Inch (22 Mar 2005)

mdh said:
			
		

> > oh ya and Inch is my new hero
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been called a lot of things, hero is pretty flattering.   

Don't worry mdh, it takes all kinds to make the world turn.


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## foxtwo (22 Mar 2005)

ya mdh, you're special in your own way  
If I go army, you will be #1 on my list 

But Inch here "DRIVES" (LOL) a Sea King! I have never ever talked to a CF pilot before! Now when ever I go to Borden and see a Sea King, I'll tell all my buddies that I know a Sea King pilot:

What do your wings look like?


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## Inch (22 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> ya mdh, you're special in your own way
> If I go army, you will be #1 on my list
> 
> But Inch here "DRIVES" (LOL) a Sea King! I have never ever talked to a CF pilot before! Now when ever I go to Borden and see a Sea King, I'll tell all my buddies that I know a Sea King pilot:
> ...



I don't know that you'll see that many Sea Kings in Borden, they may have one there for the technicians to train on but I can't say for sure. There is a Griffon Sqn there though, 400 TacHel Sqn.

To satisfy your curiosity.......


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## foxtwo (22 Mar 2005)

If there was a drooling smilie, it would be right here... 

Uh I am sure I've seen atleast one Sea King there.
Griffons fly past us every 5 minutes though.
Anyways... YOU ARE SO COOL!



All the Wings of every Pilot are the same right?


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## Inch (23 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> If there was a drooling smilie, it would be right here...
> 
> Uh I am sure I've seen atleast one Sea King there.
> Griffons fly past us every 5 minutes though.
> ...



Uh, thanks.  :blotto:

Yes, they're the same for all CF pilots.


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## SeaKingTacco (23 Mar 2005)

Enjoy the hero-worship while you can, Inch.

Soon enough, you will be JAFCP on a det, trying to give his god-fearing and much better looking TACCO a heart attack as you charge the hangar door while learning to land on a ship...     

Sorry to burst your bubble

Cheers!


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## aesop081 (23 Mar 2005)

Just remember.....Inch only DRIVES the bus !!


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## Inch (23 Mar 2005)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Enjoy the hero-worship while you can, Inch.
> 
> Soon enough, you will be JAFCP on a det, trying to give his god-fearing and much better looking TACCO a heart attack as you charge the hangar door while learning to land on a ship...
> 
> ...



I take it any way I can get it!  ;D

I've heard that you guys aren't too keen about being on board for our very first deck landing. 12 ft is pretty close, and I thought confined areas where fun to go into, I can't wait for the ship!


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## foxtwo (23 Mar 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Just remember.....Inch only DRIVES the bus !!



So what are you a gunner/navigator?

And what are those wings for? They look cool.


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## SeaKingTacco (23 Mar 2005)

> I've heard that you guys aren't too keen about being on board for our very first deck landing. 12 ft is pretty close, and I thought confined areas where fun to go into, I can't wait for the ship!



LP 1 usually isn't too bad, because it is done in really calm seas and the AC is really close on the controls.   I find LP3 just about the worst...

If you can make FLYCO and the Maintenance Chief dive for the deck- you got real close to the hangar door with the rotor blades.     

I just put down my dark visor, lock my harness, and try not to throw-up while I log the landings for the pilot.

Cheers!


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## Inch (23 Mar 2005)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> LP 1 usually isn't too bad, because it is done in really calm seas and the AC is really close on the controls.   I find LP3 just about the worst...
> 
> If you can make FLYCO and the Maintenance Chief dive for the deck- you got real close to the hangar door with the rotor blades.
> 
> ...




BAHAHAHAHAHA! That's hilarious!


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## aesop081 (23 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> So what are you a gunner/navigator?
> 
> And what are those wings for? They look cool.



I'm an airborne electronic sensor operator (AESOp) those are the wings i wear........i tell the driver...er..pilot where to go !!

Gald you think that our wings are cool.....we are way cooler than navs cuz we have 3 lightning bolts as oposed to one !! ( sorry skt, gotta get my digs in, say hi to Billy Preston for me, i think he works in STRO he was in winnipeg with me)

anyways..i smell toats burning...........back to the old peanut butter


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## Inch (23 Mar 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> I'm an airborne electronic sensor operator (AESOp) those are the wings i wear........i tell the driver...er..pilot where to go !!



Come on man, you gotta tell the kid the rest of the story, you only get to tell me where to go when the sonar is in the water or you're conning me onto a load/hoistee. For deck evolutions, instrument flying, hovering, going from point A to point B, low level nav, take offs, landings, autorotations, etc, etc, you sit there and enjoy the ride or watch the GPS clock tick down on our hot fuel time. Or at least you would be if you weren't a fixed wing fag.


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## aesop081 (23 Mar 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> Come on man, you gotta tell the kid the rest of the story, you only get to tell me where to go when the sonar is in the water or you're conning me onto a load/hoistee. For deck evolutions, instrument flying, hovering, going from point A to point B, low level nav, take offs, landings, autorotations, etc, etc, you sit there and enjoy the ride or watch the GPS clock tick down on our hot fuel time. Or at least you would be if you weren't a fixed wing fag.



Whats the matter Inch.....worried someone is moving in on your hero turff ?

And i was poking fun at navs...even you can agree with that......right?


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## Inch (23 Mar 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Whats the matter Inch.....worried someone is moving in on your hero turff ?
> 
> And i was poking fun at navs...even you can agree with that......right?



Nope, I'm not too concerned about that, just stating the facts.  ;D

I like navs, Panel check list......Sonar- "seated and sighted", Sonar - "seated and sighted", Sonar - "seated and sighted", and so on as we do multiple circuits.


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## Good2Golf (23 Mar 2005)

Fox Two, first of all let me commend you both on your presentation here (quite mature) and also your forward thinking!   You've got the beginnings of a solid "personal Campaign Plan".   Armies (and in the end Nations) live or die by well executed Campaign Plans.

It seems that you are willing to accept that risk that if you have a goal of being a pilot, but may not follow that particular path for whatever reason, that you would still be quite comfortable with considering a career in the military.   Inch is right when he states that going through cadets and getting your GPL or PPL does not necessarily guarantee success in flight training.   Absolutely true, and many guys who have made it thought flight training and received their wings will tell you that "aptitude" is important, but "attitude" will make or break you.   This is also true in non-flight related issues in life as well, BTW.

Now, that said...(this is the "however")    ...it certainly won't kill you to pursue flying within the cadets.   I received my GPL in Trenton and would have likely received my PPL in North Bay were it not for having to hop on the Sacred White Cow (the old CC-137 Boeing of days past) and fly out to Chilliwack for BOTC.   Oops...planning and preparation slightly "below the line".   Of course I figured trading a relatively sure thing (PPL on a Power Scholarship, I had done reasonably well on Glider Scholarship) was very much worth the risk of potentially not making it through CF flight training.   What I learned/experienced through cadets was just as valuable to the attitude portion of success I mentioned earlier as the aptitude.

If you are considering a potential career in the CF, then I might suggest that a "dual" reserve (militia) and cadet path might be worthy of consideration.   The militia time does two things...one, it starts pensionable time that is added to your Reg Force time if and when you choose to enter Reg service, and two, it gives you a very solid skill set for dealing with military life...particularly as all arms/elements will be involved in expeditionary/deployed operations in the future.   The air cadet side of things will flesh out that flying/air environment piece and maybe, just maybe assist you during flight training (assuming you are selected through ACS).   Having seen what I've seen for a couple of decades of service, I would actually rank your choices:

1) Militia only,
2) Both militia and cadets, and 
3) Air cadets only

Reality is that it would take a lot of time to do both, and schoolwork, etc...   It would have to be a decision you make in the end.

Now, FoxTwo -- on a bit of a serious note, and I really hate to get overly dramitic here, but I have to address something that could seriously lead to an early failure in your career...it's this "Worshipping 'Inch' Thing"!   We'll have to work really hard on that...maybe SeaKingTacco and I can convince you that Inch isn't quite the role model for you as you might think.   Now, don't worry, it's not a fatal flaw...we can work on it with you!   ......   

p.s. These wings are much cooler than the Sea King driver wings Inch showed you!

Cheers,
Duey


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## SeaKingTacco (23 Mar 2005)

> Gald you think that our wings are cool.....we are way cooler than navs cuz we have 3 lightning bolts as oposed to one !! ( sorry skt, gotta get my digs in, say hi to Billy Preston for me, i think he works in STRO he was in winnipeg with me)



Err- AESOP081- Shouldn't you be in the galley, making someone a club sandwich?      ;D

Ok- Pilots drive the bus, AESOPs find targets, Navigators make sure holes get put into the targets.   That about sums up our various roles.

Young BP was one of my SACs on OTTAWA.   Good to see him over on "dark side".

Cheers, all.


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## aesop081 (23 Mar 2005)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Err- AESOP081- Shouldn't you be in the galley, making someone a club sandwich?      ;D
> 
> Ok- Pilots drive the bus, AESOPs find targets, Navigators make sure holes get put into the targets.   That about sums up our various roles.
> 
> ...



 I think you have me confused with ASO 1 and ASO 2.......navigators as i recall  ;D But i must admit that having our own toaster has its advantages ...

Take good care of BP...you guys gained a good AESOp.....


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## Inch (23 Mar 2005)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Ok- Pilots drive the bus, AESOPs find targets, Navigators make sure holes get put into the targets.   That about sums up our various roles.
> 
> Cheers, all.



Good call. I'm actually getting to really like the whole crew concept thing. I always get a laugh when I hear the 3rd voice say "ball's out". I can never feel it up front, one time I was in the back and my buddy was flying a whole ball out and it's pretty uncomfortable.
  

Duey, that stings amigo.  :'( Now, as for those wings, the only thing that seems different is the colour of the leaf, but what that means, I'll leave to you to explain and enlighten us superior MH beings.


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## foxtwo (23 Mar 2005)

Wow thanks for the reply Duey it's gotten me thinking again...(like I ever stopped :)
I totally wish I can do this dual" reserve (militia) and cadet path. I'm close to the Lorne Scots Regiment and I have a passionate love military life like it's not even funny and I think it's the least I can give back to the Country that has given so much to me  . The problem is that the Scots meet up on Thursdays, same as ground school at cadets. Also after this summer, my camps will be devoted to scholarships _assuming_ that I make it. Is there any way that this Combat Ready Infantry can work around my stupid schedule? Now when it comes to schoolwork, how do I not say this without looking cocky... I'm above average. I plan to stay this way. I am excellent at time management. I never missed a parade night through cadets once I'm that devoted. If I enrol in the Scots for some reason, should it be as an officer or NCO do you think? See also, I can if I wanted to, get my PPL outside of cadets, but it comes out to $9 750 (self-explanatory) My dad on the other hand has A LOT of experience. Close to 10 000 hours with PPL and his Commercial Career so he's really supportive and sees where I'm coming from, but mom... you know how mom's can be :. Cadets is a one time opportunity though so it's not like I can go back after 19. I want a job in the "militia" bad but things just aren't working out for me now. I'm Basically screwed till I'm done cadets unless you guys have this super-amazing idea that will get me back on 
track... 

Oh yeah and the "worshipping" lol it's not like that I just have a great respect towards him.
And I geuss you too because you're also a pilot


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## aesop081 (23 Mar 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> Duey, that stings amigo.   :'( Now, as for those wings, the only thing that seems different is the colour of the leaf, but what that means, I'll leave to you to explain and enlighten us superior MH beings.



B flight secret squirel wings !!!


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## Good2Golf (23 Mar 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> Good call. I'm actually getting to really like the whole crew concept thing. I always get a laugh when I hear the 3rd voice say "ball's out". I can never feel it up front, one time I was in the back and my buddy was flying a whole ball out and it's pretty uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> Duey, that stings amigo.   :'( Now, as for those wings, the only thing that seems different is the colour of the leaf, but what that means, I'll leave to you to explain and enlighten us superior MH beings.



Inch, aesop081,

I'll see you gents on the JSS in a few months! (well...years, maybe...)   

p.s.   The wings are in a proposal phase, mirroring other operators who are permitted to wear a certain insignia upon leaving active service with the unit.

p.p.s.  Don't ever tell anybody you saw Chinooks operating off a ship...they'll call you a heretic and try to lock you away!  ;D

Cheers,
Duey


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## foxtwo (23 Mar 2005)

cool pic ;D


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## foxtwo (24 Mar 2005)

I am aware that you must have a Degree in order to become a pilot, so can you train to be a pilot and go to RMC at the same time or something?


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## Inch (24 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> I am aware that you must have a Degree in order to become a pilot, so can you train to be a pilot and go to RMC at the same time or something?



You can only do primary flight training during one of the summers. Basic flight training and beyond won't happen till after you graduate due to the length of the courses. BFT is 6-8 months and Advanced flying training is 4-6 months for helos and multi, not sure about jets.


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## foxtwo (25 Mar 2005)

Oh. I see.
What do they mean by "how you preform in a 3D enviorment" at the ACS?
Would playing video games improve this area? Do you play video games Inch?


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## aesop081 (25 Mar 2005)

I dont know if i can explain the 3D thing well but it means that you have to think about whats in front, left, right, behind, below and above you all at the same time.   While you are doing that ypu have to be able to keep track of time, speed and distance while staying aware of what you have done, what you need to do now, what you need to do next and what you need to do after that....and thats just to keep up!!   You also have to be able to keep in mind what the mission is, communicate with the outside world, coordinate in a crew environment, contend with ennemy action, weather and other factors such as the sate of your own systems. Its not easy, some people jusy cannot "think in 3D".

Inch may have a different opinion but i dont think video games do much for you...its just not the same environment.


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## Inch (25 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Oh. I see.
> What do they mean by "how you preform in a 3D enviorment" at the ACS?
> Would playing video games improve this area? Do you play video games Inch?



My interpretation of it is if you're able to realize where you are in space. So for example, not only is the airport to your left, it's also below you and you need to get there. So you do a left hand descending turn to get there. 

The thing with flying is that it's 3D, most people can drive, walk, run, bike, etc since that's all in 2D and we're so used to functioning like that. Flying adds the 3rd dimension, so now instead of turning, you're also descending or climbing and you've got to co-ordinate the two as well as your speed. Where people have trouble I think is moving in 3 dimensions at the same time. Flying would be dead easy if you could turn, then descend, but the truth of it is that's not very efficient.

Video games may help, but a lot depends on the person. I play video games, where that will help you is scanning around. So say you're playing a racing game, are you able to quickly scan around to see what place you're in and where you are relative to the map? I have a buddy that cannot take his eyes off what he's doing, if he looks at my screen or his postion for even a short time, he crashes. It's also good for your hand/eye co-ordination, being able to manipulate the controls to do what you want on screen without having to look down at the controller.


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## Good2Golf (25 Mar 2005)

Fox Two, what Inch and aesop081 are getting as is "spatial orientation" and "situational awareness" (or SA), like they said, having a feeling of what is around you.  They're right...it's kind of hard to describe, and I'm not sure that video games will help in that particular area (although there are others areas that I think vid games do help, more a bit later.)

My best example about testing the 3-D thing was during ACS.  During the tests, there was a booklet that had several questions that each had what looked like one of those "Chinese wooden locking puzzles", kind of like a square, mini-log house made of differently shaped pieces.  The question would show the front side of the block, and you had to pick from 3 or 4 choices as to what the back side should look like, given what the front side and the individual pieces looked like.  I might not be describing that test particularly well, and some might ask, "what the heck does that have to do with flying?" but rest assured, if it didn't apply to flying, I don't think it would be in there.  The 3D thing really is applicable and it's not just fast air/fighter guys trading altitude for speed and getting on the inside turn to their enemy, its applicable to anything that flies.

Re video games: there is no doubt that video games have some applicability to flying, both for development of eye-hand coordination and other skills/capabilities like peripheral vision, reaction to objects, etc...  There are also more aircraft with computerized, "avionics management systems" (AMS) and run in a menu-driven manner.  Watching my nephew bomb through X-Box menus and his GameBoy SP is sometimes humbling...  ;D 


Re: one of your earlier questions regarding a degree...yes, except for only a few rare cases these days, pilots entering into the CF must have degrees.  There are two options, 1) apply to RMC under the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) or get your degree on your own and enter the CF under the Direct Entry Officer (DEO) plan.  What kind of degree?  Well, it can be any one of a number of degrees ranging from science and engineering to the arts.  Not to say that one is "better" than another, but if you think you would like to follow a more technical stream later in your flying career (test pilot, etc...) you would likely want to bias your education towards the sciences.

Cheers,
Duey


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## foxtwo (25 Mar 2005)

I love science too, with all the atoms and whatnot, I find it cool  8). There was a study back that said that the best fight pilots in the world used to play video games. I've been playing ever since Super Nintendo came out back when I was like 4. I think I do have excellent Hand-Eye coordination, and I bought this new fighter pilot game for the PS2 and I think my skills in a 3D envoirment are incredable. I tell you, especially with the new graphics that really make you feel like you are there, using a flight stick is now second nature to me. I can pilot with my eyes closed or conduct "instrument flights" lol. I also bet i have awsome Arial Marksmenship with moving targets and all.


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## aesop081 (25 Mar 2005)

Just remember , it gets alot more complex than that but its a start !


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## foxtwo (25 Mar 2005)

Ha, I'm sure of it, but this is the "foundation". I'll build off of these skills. I still got time dont I  . LoL


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## foxtwo (27 Mar 2005)

Hey Inch, mdh, should I enrol in the Army Reserver as an Officer or NCO? (Keep in mind that I still want to become a Pilot)
Do NCO's have more fun than Officers? Or is that a myth?


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## D-n-A (27 Mar 2005)

foxtwo, you don't join up as a NCO, you have to work your way up to that. You can join as a NCM though. If you want to be a pilot, you gotta be an officer.


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## George Wallace (27 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Hey Inch, mdh, should I enrol in the Army Reserver as an Officer or NCO? (Keep in mind that I still want to become a Pilot)
> Do NCO's have more fun than Officers? Or is that a myth?



Are you blond?


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## aesop081 (27 Mar 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Are you blond?



Give the kid a break, he means well  ;D


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## George Wallace (27 Mar 2005)

I was going along with the "myth that they had more fun"    ;D


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## mdh (27 Mar 2005)

> Do NCO's have more fun than Officers? Or is that a myth?



It's true that NCOs have more fun, but officers have the power to stop them from having it.   >

Foxtwo,

The information above is correct, you must be an officer (and hold a degree) to be a pilot but there are other critical jobs held by NCOs and NCMs in the Air Force (And indeed in the rest of the CF was well).   I believe that the analogy has been made here many a time that the difference between officers and NCO's is a bit like the difference between managers and employees in the private sector.   

Given your circumstances, you would probably start as an NCM (private) if you want to join the army reserve as early as possible, (which would rule out a commission anyway since at 17-18 you would be too young.)   

However, if you were to be accepted to RMC or ROTP at 17-18 you would be assigned the rank of Officer Cadet which would put you into the officer "stream" so to speak.

It's up to you of course to decide where you want to go - but if you're focused on pilot I would work hard to go ROTP or RMC - both of which are very competitive programs.   Try the army reserves for a couple of years and once you enter university you could apply for a commission or position yourself as a candidate for a commission from the ranks (CFR). 

Most of the old army hands here would recommend a stint as an NCM since it provides valuable experience in terms of leadership perspective.   

The other pilot option is to apply as a so called Direct Entry Officer (DEO) which means you must be a university graduate with a full degree. 

However, if things don't go in the direction you want always consider other air crew options such as Air Nav or NCO air crew positions such as flight engineer and Aesop (aesop081 can you help out there).   If knew a couple of guys who went the NCO route to get air crew and it seemed to work well for them. 

There is one other important point I should add - and I think it may have been touched on - remember that the CF doesn't just want pilots - the CF wants pilots who want to be military officers.   It's an important distinction to make because some guys want to sign on simply to get their wings -- and then fly for an airline.     Once again I will defer to any other perspectives the pilots/air crew guys can add for you here.

Hope that helps.

PS George,

I used to be blond but decided at the age of 40 that hair was for girly men and that the Michael Chiklis look was way cooler - (trust me the chicks dig it.)   

cheers, mdh


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## Inch (28 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Hey Inch, mdh, should I enrol in the Army Reserver as an Officer or NCO? (Keep in mind that I still want to become a Pilot)
> Do NCO's have more fun than Officers? Or is that a myth?



I was an NCM in the Reserves and I'm a pilot now. So it won't hurt and you'll get to do some cool shit without any responsibility.

mdh, the NCM aircrew positions you mentioned are remuster only trades. You cannot join straight away into the Flight Engineer or AESOp trade. You must be an AVN tech for 6 years to be eligible to remuster to FE. AESOps can come from any trade, I'm not sure what the other prerequisites are so I'll leave that to the resident AESOp.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2005)

To apply for remuster to AESOP you must be a QL5A qualified corporal in your current MOC and have 48 months continuous service. There are no other specific requirements for application but thats the easy part....getting past selection is another story as it is a small trade and doesn't take many applicants each year.


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## foxtwo (28 Mar 2005)

Lol, no unfortunately I am not blond, so I don't have an excuse  for my stupid question.

Yeah but I do tend to ask questions often, just so I'm not sketchy on the subject and don't look like an ass if I'm wrong  8)



			
				mdh said:
			
		

> It's true that NCOs have more fun, but officers have the power to stop them from having it.  >



LOL that's hilarious... ;D

Yeah, I know what you mean about pilots ditching the CF for an airline, but I even though thats a long way from now, I don't think I would ever become an airline pilot- too boring for me. And with Canadian airlines these days, I would worry about not getting layed off 

But excellent responses guys (excluding the one*)

Day by day, I learn more and more, someday passing on this knowledge to younger people. ^-^


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## foxtwo (28 Mar 2005)

If you wanna hear a cool tag story I wrote up, go to the Cadets section under Tag Stories.


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## X-Rigger (31 Mar 2005)

FoxTwo:

I commend your forward thinking.  Keep it up.  Here's a different spin for you.  I spent 11 years as an Air Reserve AVN tech, all the while going to university and subsequently working full time for a civvy company.  The training was very good, since all the courses are Regular Force courses, which is something the Army Reserve (what we now officially call the Militia) normally can't offer.  And Air Res units typically don't "parade" 1 night/wk and 1 weekend/month as the Army Res does - whenever I went to work I was maintaining aircraft alongside Regular Force personnel.  I would schedule my workdays so as to balance my civilian and military responsibilties as I saw fit, which was very helpful and I still maintained my AVN skills.

The new Reserve AVN techs coming to our unit had a 2-year B Class (temporary full time Reserve service) contract to enable them to get fully qualified (QL5).  So, this is something you'll have to consider as well.  If you can spare the 2 years, you'll get promoted to Corporal after 2 years and be making aprrox $3700/month.  That's just a snapshot, I could go on forever.  Check it out.  Perhaps becoming a AVN, AVS or ACS Tech in the meantime is right up your alley prior to becoming a pilot.  Why not learn the aircraft inside out first?

Any questions, just ask.

Cheers,

X-Rigger


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## foxtwo (31 Mar 2005)

Great Idea! A tech eh...

But the closest Wing I live near is Borden, and Trenton is a bit farther. Transportation will be an issue. I want to get a Chemisty degree at the RMC... If that makes a difference on my pathway. So how would that work if I wanted to become a pilot while getting that degree at the RMC?


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## Inch (31 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Great Idea! A tech eh...
> 
> But the closest Wing I live near is Borden, and Trenton is a bit farther. Transportation will be an issue. I want to get a Chemisty degree at the RMC... If that makes a difference on my pathway. So how would that work if I wanted to become a pilot while getting that degree at the RMC?



You'll be paid while you go to RMC since you'll be enrolled as an OCdt, you won't be able to be a tech too.


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## foxtwo (31 Mar 2005)

Back to the Co-op.

Since I am gone for a whole semester, Is there a way where I can get like a residence at like Trenton and do some reserve there work there or something for a few months? That would be my dream   Even better if they pay for it  ;D?


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