# What up with the pay system for reserves comming off tour?



## Jarnhamar (2 Apr 2007)

Getting back from tour I and I'm told some 500 other reservists pay got screwed up.
There was a "hickup" in the system. Fair enough.  I finally get paid a month and a half later.  (And it wsn't just a regular pay check it was ALL the money people had in their accounts overseas,  many guys didnt send money home and had no cash saved in Canada0

"Everything will be sorted out for your next pay"
I smile and thank the clerk (who was even more upset about me not getting paid than I was), hope for the best prepare for the worst.

Sure enough I don't get paid AGAIN, nor am i starting to find out, did some of the other reservists who were on tour.
I'm not sure if the second pay screw up is only for the guys and girls who were on tour or if it's another reason but you can't fault someo for assuming

What the heck is going on?  Why are so many reservists comming off tour having their pay all screwed up? (or if not off tour then reservisis in general)
Whats with these "hickups" in the pay system.

To make maters worse the MCpl in charge of finance at my unit tells me that she can't access the system or access my pay in the specific way needed to figure out whats wrong with are pay or how to fix it.  She doesn't have access and has to fight someone to get it. Has been fighting for a while.  SHOULDN'T reserve finance people have access to all the reg force stuff? Considering the amount of reserves who now augment the regular force.


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## George Wallace (2 Apr 2007)

Reg and Res Pay are two different animals.  You clerk may have access to one, but not both.


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## Dissident (2 Apr 2007)

Not only this, but it took me months(!) to get class C pay going for TF 1-07. And I wasn't the only one.

I addressed it up the chain, but it is an aggravating ongoing issue. Especially when it happens over the Christmass period.


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## PO2FinClk (2 Apr 2007)

When on Class A & B, your pay is adminstered through RPSR which "only" Reserve units have access to. When on Class C, you are being paid as the Reg F through CCPS, which only Reg F units have access. As mentioned above these are distinct systems which do not "speak" to each other. Based on your post it has something to do with your Class C time.

Another thing to note is DAPPP are the ones who Start & Cease your Class C within CCPS, and they complete this based on message traffic they receive about your tour, leave, SOU etc That being said this can sometimes take a bit of time before everything gets settled. The last thing which can take time is for all the last Acquittance Rolls and allowance adjustments to be input. As those have to be done manually, typically during a Roto turnover there is often a delay associated with that.

To go back to your post though, aside from the fact that something is screwed up we cannot determine what occured and therefore cannot comment about your situation itself.

The only thing I can mention is that those who did not plan and insure they had funds in their account prior to returning only have themselves to blame. Personal finances are just that, personal. I am sure though from a perspective of someone just coming back it may seem pretty harsh to say but that is the unfortunate reality.


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## PO2FinClk (2 Apr 2007)

Dissident said:
			
		

> Not only this, but it took me months(!) to get class C pay going for TF 1-07. And I wasn't the only one.


That is nothing new and has been an issue for many many years now (I can recall these issues all the way to UNPROFOR). As mentioned in my above post there are several factors involved in activating a Class C to which no solution was ever ... adopted/developed. :


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## dapaterson (2 Apr 2007)

PO2FinClk:

Personal finances are a personal responsibility.  Ensuring a member is paid correctly and on time is a chain of command responsibility.

There have been repeated failures to ensure pay to deploying and redeploying reservists is properly delivered.  From a pay and admin perspective, we aren't deploying on Roto 4 - we're doing Roto 0 for the 5th time.

I have heard rumblings that there are some efforts in the works to develop and maintain expertise on Reserve Pay for deployments.  It can't come too soon.


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## PO2FinClk (2 Apr 2007)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> PO2FinClk:
> 
> Personal finances are a personal responsibility.  Ensuring a member is paid correctly and on time is a chain of command responsibility.



Completly agree, perhaps I missed adding that last part at the end of my post as was my intent.


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## Jarnhamar (2 Apr 2007)

Thank you for the response PO2.



> When on Class C, you are being paid as the Reg F through CCPS, which only Reg F units have access. As mentioned above these are distinct systems which do not "speak" to each other. Based on your post it has something to do with your Class C time.



I think you're deffinatly right.
Someone should change it so the two systems CAN speak to each other because reservists go back to their home unit after their class C and as we've seen, problems occur.


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## Rifleman62 (2 Apr 2007)

Sorry, don't hold your breath, you are after all, in the Reserves. The last report available follows:

Fiscal Year 2003-2004 Annual Report to SCONDVA on the Quality of Life Initiatives in the Canadian Forces

Preface
We are pleased to submit this annual report to the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs (SCONDVA) in response to its report tabled in the House of Commons on *28 October 1998 * entitled Moving Forward – A Strategic Plan for Quality of Life Improvements in the Canadian Forces. This report follows up on the information provided in the Chief of the Defence Staff Annual Report for 2002/2003 tabled in Parliament on 10 June 2003.


Section II - Ongoing Initiatives

Recommendation 8. That by 31 December 1999, as soon as practicable, a common pay system be adopted for the Regular Forces and the Reserves.

DND's Reply: The Canadian Forces Pay System (CFPS) project was initiated in 2001 to provide a single, integrated pay system for the Total Force (Regular, Reserve, Cadet Instructors, Rangers). The CFPS will introduce new capabilities in the form of web-enabled client access.

The project is currently in the Identification / Option Analysis Phase. A core project team conducted a Risk Analysis of the current military pay systems and documented requirements and considerations for an integrated system. Viable options have been identified and preliminary research conducted. A leading industry expert has completed a Fit/Gap Analysis of commercial-off-the-shelf payroll products to the CFPS requirements. The next step is to obtain Departmental approval to proceed with the project.


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## Dodger1967 (2 Apr 2007)

Jesus:

Seems like this is one problem they still haven't solved !

You'll be suprised to know that problems with paychecks isn't new !

When I was in 1986-1988 it took the CF 8 bloody months to give me my first reserve pay.
I'm sure there are Reservists who have waited longer !

When I finally did get it though, the numbers were sweet, something over $600 if I recall right, which back then was like a $1000 today !

Guess you'll just have to keep your chin up and pray to God, that they add an extra zero, to your late paychecks.

Cheerz
Paul


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## KaptKain (4 Apr 2007)

> That is nothing new and has been an issue for *many many years now* (I can recall these issues all the way to UNPROFOR). As mentioned in my above post there are several factors involved in activating a Class C to which no solution was ever ... adopted/developed



From "B"URPS to the RPSR pay system. Nothing ever works. It gives reasoning for our Top heavy guys(Highest paid "Paper-Clip" badged pers) to receive their paychecks. They have to be doing something during those days/years in Ottawa. I have yet to see it though. 
The problem will probably never be resolved until some 3 leaf brass ever has a pay problem, then maybe something will be done. The Reserves are not looked at as important.

A good analogy to follow is this.....Reserves is like the Maritimes...They dont care at all until it affects the big boys!
Thats the underlying feeling I received from my Res Experience.

quote _BBC'ing over_ endquote

Can your O.R. Clk issue you a contingency check for a small amount to help offset bills at all while awaiting your deserved pay? <It is possible>
Ensure to call or check into your O.R. weekly until it is resolved. 
<P.S. you know your O.R. clerks better then me. If they are the complacent ones, go to them twice a week, if their competent ones they will be keeping you upto date then>


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## imahikergirl (6 Apr 2007)

It would be a big mistake to give Res F contingency pay (RPSR) for a Reg F (CCPS) pay problem.  The two systems don't talk.  A problem we are having here is that alot of the Reservists and/or Res F Unit Clks are unaware that reservists need to be processed for a Class C Release through the Reg F Release sections.  The release section is responsible for their final pay.


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## KaptKain (20 Apr 2007)

imahikergirl said:
			
		

> It would be a big mistake to give Res F contingency pay (RPSR) for a Reg F (CCPS) pay problem.  The two systems don't talk.  A problem we are having here is that alot of the Reservists and/or Res F Unit Clks are unaware that reservists need to be processed for a Class C Release through the Reg F Release sections.  The release section is responsible for their final pay.



Ahh k, those are the fine points I do not know about.


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## geo (20 Apr 2007)

If your pay is not in your bank account on the date it is supposed to be - see your SSM/ OC and ask for an advance.  The CF is obliged to maintain it's books accurately and deliver the goods in a timely manner.... hold em responsible...


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## kratz (20 Apr 2007)

A rule of thumb I have told the guys sine IRPPS has been to check your pay account first thing in the morning on payday. If the funds are not there when getting ready for work, report it to your OR/SHO as soon as you arrive to work. Leave a voicemail or email if you have to. This will give your pay office enough time to track down the answer or enough time to arrange for you to be paid through the cashier, if needed.


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## Jarnhamar (13 Oct 2007)

Still haven't received my T4 from 2006.


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## GAP (14 Oct 2007)

The employer has to submit the T4's to Revenue Canada by Feb 28. If you can, go down to a Revenue Canada office with a couple pieces of ID and they will print out all T4's they have in you name. Great way to bypass inefficient offices in the Civi World anyway.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2007)

It's the army that hasn't sent it though, can I still get them to print it out at Revenue Canada?


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## GAP (14 Oct 2007)

Revenue Canada has copies of all T4's, so I don't see why not.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2007)

Awesome thank you very much.


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## MJP (14 Oct 2007)

Actually and surprisingly DND T4's don't seem to be on the CRA's system bud.  I'd be very surprised if it was there.  I had to get mine reprinted from Ottawa through my BOR for the last two years.


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## Nemo888 (14 Oct 2007)

After two months I decided the Army system was not worth the aggravation. I decided to get a copy from Revenue Canada. I did it by phone. I found out they don't do in person stuff anymore in Ottawa. They actually fired all the in person agents. (It was a great service, must be why they cancelled it.) I went in and they just gave me a phone. So phone and save yourself the aggravation. Revenue Canada will mail it to you. It took about 5 working days.

The glacial pace in Ottawa got me my paper T4 in August. They had sent the info to Revenue Canada on time though.


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## Piper1911 (10 Nov 2010)

A few thoughts on this one:

1. CRA is a good way to get T4s if you don't receive them. That being said; whenever you move or on an annual basis take the time to ensure that your address is up to date in RPSR or CCPS (pay systems) and that your pay information is correct. This is often a problem and still doesn't guarantee there won't be some hickups.

2. Class C pay can be administered in RPSR, TF authorities and the broader pay management authorities are not yet keen on allowing reserve units to input class C contracts. I've been deployed using RPSR to administer my Class C, it meant my transition from A to C and back was flawless. Frankly, we should be dumping the onerous conversion of reservists to CCPS for deployments and doing it all in RPSR. It would take an equivalent amount of labour and save huge problems.

3. As with everything, get and keep copies of everything! To get your whole pers file you have to submit an Access to Information Request, but if you've got most of it your OR should allow you to photocopy a handful of docs here and there. This has saved numerous people whose pers files have disappeared in the system.


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## johnnyo (20 Dec 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Reg and Res Pay are two different animals.  You clerk may have access to one, but not both.



Hells yes.  George you are right. (I can't believe that I just said this.  I want to start an arguement with you dammit!)


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## George Wallace (20 Dec 2010)

johnnyo

Now that you are RegF you aren't subject to these pay problems anymore.  Your problems of the past, with starting and ending Class C no longer exist are over; however those problems have not been corrected and many Reservists still face them.  







Miss you big guy.


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## johnnyo (20 Dec 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> johnnyo
> 
> Now that you are RegF you aren't subject to these pay problems anymore.  Your problems of the past, with starting and ending Class C no longer exist are over; however those problems have not been corrected and many Reservists still face them.
> 
> ...



Its alot different from the last time that I was RegF when I took home less than a third of the pay that I get now.  There was a good point mentioned about how the Res pay system has been/is neglected compared to the Reg one.  This is definately the case and its very unfortunate.  I can see more folks leaving the Res due to be fed up with the neglect.  (A very bad state of affairs I think).


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