# Halifax Class FELEX



## apostle (21 May 2006)

Hello all

I was recently on the DND website reading about the Frigate Life Extension Programme and I noticed something.  The upgrades listed (including some already implemented) include things such as: improved Sea Sparrow; updated radar; SIRIUS infrared system; updated EW suite etc.  All of these are above water warfare systems, unless I missed it there was no mention of underwater warfare systems, so i'm wondering will the upgraded Halifax frigates get new/improved sonar or is the current version of CANTASS considered good enough for the next decade? :bullet:


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## TCBF (21 May 2006)

OPSEC?


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## couchcommander (21 May 2006)

It's already all over the net, including DND releases and CASR.


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## apostle (21 May 2006)

Long Range Inverted Periscope, I like that ;D


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## Nfld Sapper (21 May 2006)

The LRIP nice  ;D


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## Navy_Blue (28 May 2006)

Why would we want a stern flap on a CPF?  What is 3P ammo? and what is a RCHMG?  Got this from a presentation of FELEX from Mar 21 06.


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## Cloud Cover (28 May 2006)

RCHMG- remote control heavy machine gun mount. Likley something like any of these, since there are a few dozen of them at GD right now getting a paint job:

  http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002infantry/wasil.pdf

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/typhoon/Typhoon.html - (these are proven systems.)

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005garm/wednesday/hardie.pdf


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## Mortar guy (28 May 2006)

Stern flap - I dunno but perhaps it aids with stability? 

3P ammunition - Stands for prefragmented, programmable, proximity fuzed. It means the round has greater leathality (prefragmented), can be programmed to burst at a certain range by induction programming, and is equipped with a proximity fuze. It's similar to the AHEAD ammo fired by our GDF-005s in the Army. Oh, and it's for the 57mm on the frigates.

RCHMG - Remote Controlled Heavy Machine Gun. Picture a RWS like on the US Army Stryker, but on a ship in place of the handraulically aimed .50s we have now.

Hope that helps.

MG


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## Cdn Blackshirt (28 May 2006)

Mortar guy said:
			
		

> Stern flap - I dunno but perhaps it aids with stability?



Stern flaps improve the hydrodynamic shape of hull resulting in increased speed, range and reduced fuel consumption.


Matthew.


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## Navy_Blue (28 May 2006)

All very cool   thanks guys.


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## Navy_Blue (10 Jan 2007)

Figured I would put new life in an old thread.  Was on the FELEX PMO site and there is a bit of new and updated info people might find interesting.  Included is a copy of the presentation given to industry officials on what needs to be done.  

Just thought it would intrest some of you. 

Here is the link:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/dgmepm/pmofelex/index_e.asp


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## NavyShooter (10 Jan 2007)

Interesting to see what's out in open source....it's more than I've seen passed around on ship.

NS


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## Cdn Blackshirt (10 Jan 2007)

Geez....how long are they keeping them in-service if they don't finish the last re-fit until 2017?

I though SCSC was due by 2025?


Matthew.   ???


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## Ex-Dragoon (11 Jan 2007)

The SCSC is due around 2015-2020 time frame.


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## Colin Parkinson (11 Jan 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> Stern flaps improve the hydrodynamic shape of hull resulting in increased speed, range and reduced fuel consumption.
> 
> 
> Matthew.



A giant trim tab


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## Sub_Guy (11 Jan 2007)

Not that it matters, but does anyone know the dollar amount for this project.

Just wondering if it would have been more beneficial if we spent the cashola on new vessels, and unloaded this stuff to some south American navy.....


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## Kirkhill (11 Jan 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> A giant trim tab



What impact would a stern flap have on MCDV performance?  Would it make it more effective in the OPV role?


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## Edward Campbell (11 Jan 2007)

I wonder if a knowledgeable someone from this thread could take a look at the latest Ruxted offering at http://ruxted.ca/ where there is, in *A New Year's Resolution* a 'shopping list' for the Navy.  Perhaps someone in the know could post a comment (upper right hand corner) to update the status of the items in that list.


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Jan 2007)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> What impact would a stern flap have on MCDV performance?  Would it make it more effective in the OPV role?



Changing the hull length generally improves the speed of a vessel, sort of like putting on longer skis, it does alter the turning radius also. Backing a vessel with trim tabs full down will cause it to "mush" as the trim tabs are "catching" the water and "spilling" it unevenly off the tabs. The ability to lower the flap and raise is to keep the normal handling characteristic while gaining speed, fuel economy is the idea. The tab or flap can help a vessel that "digs" a hole in the stern, working similar to a wing where the water pressure lifts the stern up and helps keep the vessel more parallel to the water surface. Many years ago they put large wooden wedges on the back of the 40' crashboats to help counter this effect.
But to answer your question, they would have to do some computer modelling to see if the gain is worth it. Another option is to insert a new hull section during the mid life refit, increasing the length and the speed.


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## Stoker (12 Jan 2007)

Stern flaps will improve fuel consumption to a certain degree on most hull forms. The US have added this feature to over 100 of their ships and are preforming well with a significant amount of money being saved. It would probally work well in the CPF's and I heard its being considered. The problem fitting it to a MCDV is one weight, these things are fairly heavy and the MCDV's are have always had a weight problem.  Second is how far will it stretch out behind the ship? it probally will impede any over the stern operations ie route survey, ROV ops. If its retractable the hydraulics will have to go somewhere, not much room in the Z drive compartment. As for the hull extension its already been discounted as too difficult/too expensive, due to the fact the only way to stretch the hull is at frame 26 where that part of the hull was welded on and that's not ideal.


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## Ex-Dragoon (13 Jan 2007)

The question is while the stern flaps might save on fuel do they cause a higher sonor return making it easier for submarines to find us and acoustic torpedoes to home in on ships fitted with them?


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