# Applications to join  foreign forces  (Britian and Australia)



## Pieman (7 Jun 2004)

Hi guys,

Like my new Ninja Sniper avatar? Ninja Snipers are one of the most elite forces. To become one, you have to have the following requirements: 1) You cannot have any real military experience. 2) You have to pass Ninja Sniper training. (I hope you have XBox). If you match these requirements and want to become part of the most elite killing machines in the world, the Ninja Sniper, then PM me to find out how.   :blotto:
LOL, it is late and I drank about 2L of Pepsi tonight. Bzzzz      Anyway, onto my real post:


Canadian citizen application into British or Australian forces:

I have done a lot of research into this topic, I do not claim to be an expert or anything, but I think this information is worth sharing.   As Canadians, we are commonwealth citizens, and it is possible for us to serve in other commonwealth countries. 

* Application to Britain *

http://www.army.mod.uk/

For us Ninja Snipers, the good news is that it is possible for us to directly apply to the UK forces from Canada.   If you are applying for an officer position within the UK, then they will require you to live in the UK during the selection process. This can take up to 6 months and you are expected to be able to support yourself during that time. (Get a cheap apartment and a job at Dairy Queen, if nothing else I guess)

http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/en/homepage/schemes_and_programmes/hsmp.html?


If you intend to stay in the UK longer than 3 months you need a visiting permit. To apply for a UK visiting permit, contact the UK embassy here in Canada.

http://www.britain-in-canada.org/home.htm


* Application to Australia: * (Special thanks to Wes for providing links to some info) 

http://www.defence.gov.au/index.cfm

If you are a Ninja Sniper with no Military experience, the road to getting into the Australian Defence Force (ADF) is a difficult one. This is because you have to obtain a permanent resident status with immigration authority in Aus. This means you don't just get a work permit, you must go through the process of migration to the country. That process takes * two years *, and you have to be living in Australia during that time. That means you have to get a work/study permit and go there.

Getting a work permit for Australia does not appear to be a cake walk. If you do not have a university degree, you could be in for a long wait to get a work permit approved. The application appears to be straight forward, but I was not able to find out the odds of being approved.

If you have a university degree, then there is an interesting option available: It is the special skills migration program. This is a program set up by the AUS government to encourage educated people to settle there. You put your name in a data base, and then a company can come along and pick your name out. (Or rather you convince a company to hire you and have them do that later) And if you are offered a job then you will be issued a 2 year work visa.

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrate/skilled.htm

By far, the best method   to get over there is to go by a student visa. It is super easy to get a student visa, and it would be interesting to study there. After studying there for a while, you could try and convince a company to hire you and it would be easier to get a work permit that way.

Bottom line, once you get a permanent resitdent status, THEN you can make your application into the ADF.

* Military Experience: * For those of you with military experience, past or present, then it is much easier for you to get in. You do not have to wait to get a permanent resident status. There are several different options. If you are interested, simply email the ADF recruiting center and they will provide you with info. (I did not look into this too deep because I am only a Ninja Sniper...they said that Ninja Snipers weren't real or some crazy thing like that! Can you believe that??)

Anyway, I realise the information here is not exhaustive, I felt it was worth sharing because I wanted you guys to know that joining one of these forces is an option. Also, I wanted you to know how you would go about doing it, and the problems you would expect. I hope it helped.


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## BDTyre (7 Jun 2004)

I actually spoke with two recruiters from the British Army and they gave me the impression that no work permit was needed; the British military would apparently take care of everything.  All I would need is a travel visa that did not expire before I was enrolled.

Perhaps things have changed, perhaps they were misinformed.


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## Infanteer (7 Jun 2004)

It's easier than you think to get into the British Army.  I had an officer practically set me up for Sandhurst in an Artic tent in the middle of the Balkans.


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## Pieman (7 Jun 2004)

Interesting. Reading the paperwork they gave me, it stated quite clearly that if you did not have this work permit your application will be rejected outright.
I will email them again and see what they say about this.


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## D-n-A (7 Jun 2004)

I think I may still have an application for the British Army lying around somewhere, if I can find it, I'll post whatever it has on it for a Canadian who wants to enlist. From what I remember though, all you had to do was fill out the application, everything will be done by mail, and for your testing you'd have to fly over to  England, find your own place to live, etc to do your tests. The Brits will not compensate you though for your trip, etc as far as I know.  Maybe something can be set up at the british part of WATC to do your tests, etc ? Make it a lot easier an cheaper then to fly to the UK.


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## nULL (7 Jun 2004)

One thing that you don't mention about Britain; they don't take dual citizens, that is to say, anything other than Britain-xxxxxx.

Someone like myself, with dual Canadian/Australian citizenship is ineligable to serve in the British Army, not sure about Marines though. You would actually have to formally renounce one of your citizenships though.


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## D-n-A (7 Jun 2004)

null, as far as I know, no military will take you if your a dual citizen, your have to denounce one of your citizenship's to enlist.


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## Pieman (7 Jun 2004)

I stand corrected. I spoke with a British Army recruiter and the information I had written above about needing a work permit to join the UK army was incorrect. You need an entry visa of any kind, and all a Canadian need to enter the country is a Canadain passport. The source of confusion was in the application package that stated one needed a work permit, which is only true for certain countries, not Canada. Makes things easier!

I have corrected the information I gave in the original post.


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## portcullisguy (7 Jun 2004)

That is really strange that the UK forces won't take you if you are Canadian-Australian dual nationality.  The UK military accepts commonwealth citizens, and both Canada and Australia are commonwealth countries.  And if you are a citizen of both, then you already owe allegience to The Queen - twice!  I don't see why owing her allegience a third time would cause any turmoil.

A long long time ago I looked into what would be required to join an Australian police force.  The mounds of paperwork needed for a Canadian who is not already a police officer (or even one who is) seemed absolutely pointless.  I suppose their military is different, as I'm sure some of the qualifications carry over, or at least keep you on the same page as everyone else.  Funny enough, it's dead easy to come here to good ol' Canada and join the police, but they've made it tougher to join the army if you are not a citizen.  Are they still accepting applications to the CF for landed immigrants?  I had heard they stopped this recently.

Also, I don't think (but am not sure) that the Royal Marines recruiting requirements are any different than the Royal Navy, and the Royal Navy has the same nationality standards as the Army and RAF, last time I checked.  The Marines are, of course, considered a part of the Navy (although their selection courses are much tougher, as HRH Prince Edward found out).


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## Redeye (7 Jun 2004)

nULL said:
			
		

> One thing that you don't mention about Britain; they don't take dual citizens, that is to say, anything other than Britain-xxxxxx.
> 
> Someone like myself, with dual Canadian/Australian citizenship is ineligable to serve in the British Army, not sure about Marines though. You would actually have to formally renounce one of your citizenships though.



Bollocks.  I hold Canadian, Irish, and British citizenship and had no trouble joining the CF.  I also flirted with joining the RM and the RAF at various points.  The RM and RAF, according to what I was told, only take British citizens who have resided in the UK for at least five years, though they do make exceptions, and both services were willing to do so for me.


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## nULL (7 Jun 2004)

Not bollocks, though there is alot of misinformation floating around in here. I just emailed a brit army recruiter and this is what I got. Hopefully this will clear it up.

"Hi, thank you for the email

I am sorry but as you are a duel national you are not able to apply for service in the British Army.  The rule on this is that the only duel citizenship that is acceptable is if you are UK/Commonwealth.

WO2 Doug Kershaw
Online Office"

As for being ONLY a brit citizen to join the marine commandos, not true either. There are MANY foreign nationals (NZ, AUS, CAN) currently serving, and I can back it up with a URL to a webboard. 
It would be great to get real clarity on what is necessary, but the recruiters DO NOT deal with immigration issues, they will tell you to go bother the Home Office. 

The Brit Army and Navy are not like the CF apparently, where you only need apply once. Both have different standards, and the army one came right from the horse's mouth. The only option is to volunarily renounce one of your citizenships. Though I agree, Canada and Australia are both Commonwealth...what's the big deal? Everybody knows that REAL Commonwealth citizens swear allegiance to the queen 3 times.


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## Jascar (8 Jun 2004)

nULL said:
			
		

> Not bollocks, though there is alot of misinformation floating around in here. I just emailed a brit army recruiter and this is what I got. Hopefully this will clear it up.
> 
> "Hi, thank you for the email
> 
> ...




The Royal Army website says as long as one of your citizenships is British, it doesn't matter what the other is. When asked: I am a dual national - UK/USA. Can I join?
The reply given is: Yes, provided one of those nationalities is British you are eligible to apply.

Another question asks: I am a European citizen. Can I join the British Army?
Answer: Unless you have a dual nationality one of which must be British your application unfortunately cannot be accepted.


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## winchable (8 Jun 2004)

I fired off an enquiry to an RM recruiter and they're practically at my door trying to get me over, well not literally but you get the idea.
I must say it does feel nice to be actively sought after, rather than getting some bugger at the CFRC who couldn't give two shytes what you want to do. 
I'm a dual British-Canadian however so the situation is different.
If you're really interested, I can't see them outright rejecting you, they are looking for something to stuff in the cannons.

Anyone else thinking of doing anything like this, or who  has already done something like this, post your experience here.


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## Pieman (11 Jun 2004)

Well I gave it some thought and I decided that I would go ahead and formally apply to the UK and see what happens. Might as well have as many options as possible. 
I have submitted an application to the British Army, and the British Airforce (For a type of Paratrooper division).

My application to the CF was submitted about 6 months ago now...wonder if the UK will still beat them? 

I will update my experience with this here so anyone else applying will have some info.


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## belkin81 (12 Jun 2004)

Uh you do know that you have to actually go over to the UK for the medical, physical and test(s) for the application process and pay your own way...just an FYI


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## nULL (12 Jun 2004)

As well, their physical standards are much much higher; go look on some UK army boards....you have people asking if60 pressups will be enough, whereas on this board some have asked if under 19 is ok. Also, the running standards seem higher initially as well. Para recruits for instance are encouraged to be able to run 4 miles, 8 min/mile. 

If you're not in the CF yet, you should consider staying in Canada. Perhaps you'll find what you're looking for in life within the CF, and at the very least you'll get in decent shape, or find out where you are.  As mentoned above, you WILL have to pay your own way. It would be a damn shame to go all that way and realize you really needed a few more months in the gym.


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## Pieman (12 Jun 2004)

belkin81, Null, 

Thanks for the heads up, but I am aware of that I will have to pay my own way.   I am sure I can save up enough to do this. I hope I do not have to stay too long. I was reading that officer selection can take 6 months, may have to be crafty and   secure a contract while over there if that is the case.

I am also aware of the harder physical requirements. I believe i am already close to their mininum level, and improving every day. I will make sure, test myself, to make sure I can pass their tests before I hop on a plane. (Better yet, I will laugh at their tests and do all my push ups one handed....but I am dreaming again I think.)  I am not going to do this to meet just  the mininum! 

I will stay in Canada if the Forces makes me an offer in a reasonable amount of time. I am not being impatient, but I simply cannot put off a carrer much longer, as I have other commitments I must meet. The British application will take a while, I am not sure what the average time frame for a Canadian applicant is, but probably at least 8 months if I am really really lucky. 

Hopefully the CF application will come through, however the prospect of living in another country again does have it's appeal. This is all talk right now, we'll see what happens.


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## Danjanou (12 Jun 2004)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> It's easier than you think to get into the British Army.   I had an officer practically set me up for Sandhurst in an Artic tent in the middle of the Balkans.



 I had an officer practically set me up....in an Artic tent in the middle of the Balkans. Sounds a tad kinky to me, you gotta watch those Brits.  :

The rules about joing the Brits based on what's posted here seem to change. The only advice is check wuith them before making the trip. You don't want to pack and move on the advice  of " something somebody I don't know on the net told me." England's too bloody and cold and damp for that. 

Fortunately we do have a resident Aussie on the board who may be able to do the research if you ask nice and offer to buy him beers when you get there.

Considered it myself when I was younger. In fact in the late 1970's there was a plot afoot in the Seaforths for almost all of B Coy to join the British parent regiment. Someone had worked it out that we'd get there just before they deployed to Hong Kong for a 3 year tour.


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## jarko (13 Jun 2004)

Great Post,

But let me get this straight,

I was born in Poland and i came to Canada 16 years ago and i have a Canadian citizenship. My Polish passport expired like 2 years ago and i have no means to fill for a new one. Anyway would i still be able to join the british army?? I am interested in the Para regiment also. I think physically i am ready for the British military but i am hopeing that me being born in Poland won't screw things up. Will there be any complications? If so what can i do. I am very eager to join, was planning to join the CF military like next week but this topic made me thinking.

Thx


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## 1feral1 (13 Jun 2004)

As for being a dual citizen, I am Australian and Canadian, and I know many British and Kiwis who still hold two passports (plus a few Cdns too). Nothing about surrendereing any. Although my Cdn passport has been expired for years, I have never heard or read of anyone from the British Commonweath having to surrender ones dual citrizenship.

The key to getting into the ADF when I signed on was a residentail visa, which firstly is NOT cheap, and yes then, hard to obtain. One this is obtained, and if you meet the criteria to enlist, then you must apply for Australian citizenship within 90 days of being elegible, or you will be discharged. One signs a contract when you enlist to do this. So you do two yrs as a foreigner. I applied for my citizenship (yes another fee) the same day i became elegible. 

It aint no cakewalk, coming here is a total life change, and a total restart and all that it represents. Its about learning all over agian, coping abuse at times, it about finally realising that your friends and family are in excess of 20,000km away, and only then does one realise how precious these things really are. Its about sacrifice, and maybe getting back to Canada every few yrs or so. I have not been back in 4 yrs, and I arrive in Vancouver on Canada Day at 1000hrs, and i'll be back in The Pearl of the Prairie (Regina) for the evening fireworks on the banks of Wascan lake that night. I plan to really take it all in this time, visiting my aging D-day Uncles and soaking up that northern sun and using the extened daylight (here its dark well before 1700 AEST.

Yes I live near the beach, yes I love the long summers and cold beers, and yes every beach is topless! I enjoy all the funky wildlife like the parrots ( no robins here),  the roos, snakes and spiders, plus the praying mantids who are 15cm long and living in my garden, but dont miss the cold winters, but here I have become climatised, and now when its 8 or 9C outside I shiver like I was born here. Although recently on Ex, I was caught having a shave and wash wearning my army boxers and t-hsirt when it was about 1C out, and all the lads thought I was nuts. There has also been many time I have worn my CF arctic parka (only in the night) to keep warm too, as the cold here really goes to your bones.

Whats the first thing I am gonna do when I get to Regina? Go to Houston Pizza on Hill Ave for a Bacon Double Cheese! Its been 4 yrs since I had a Molsons Cdn!

Personally, for me my citizenship is wear my heart is, and that is in Australian, although  I never truly forget my past  
proud past from a great nation, my family and friends, after almost 10yrs, Australia is my home now, and for any out ther who have followed the same path as myself, you know and honestly understand what I am saying. There is something truly magical about this place which in some way after all my years, I truly have found my place. The only negitve thing is teh over abundant gun control and restrictions on legal gun owners. That I dont like at all. I have been here since Jan 1995, and I have yet to fire one shot recreationally! I miss that heaps.

Female wise, they outnumber us blokes here, and they have a thing for Cdn men, so when I was single I was never EVER without a date, but yrs ago, I settled with what I consider to be the perfect woman, who loves the beach. Yes she's blonde slim and attractive, and fulfills that perfect Aussie female image we all often wonder about. Its a bonus she tolerates me and my bad habits, and in this catagory, I truly have won the lotto. 

So, as for coming from a British Commonwealth country, no problems. Australia allows its citizens to hold dual nationality, but only until recently, if you were born Australian, and if, say moved to Canada, and became a Cdn citizen, then you would have had to choose, but thats all changed now.

Another interesting thing or catch, is if say you are a citizen of a country, say Greece, Italy, etc, who have national service (compulsory mil svc) and you are of military age, anf have yet to serve, and even a member of the ADF, and you end up in one of these countries, then there might be a problem, as there has been cases of military age Aussies with dual citizenship, being held in these countries until they do their national service.

In some cases even born in Australia from parents a certain nationality, and if they are both the same, you are automatically also a citizen of that country, and ones ignorance before travelling on holiday can really become a problem. 

try www.seesydney.com ( a good site if you plan to travel here "Cole have a look") www.bribie.com.au (where I will be living once posted in Jan 05) www.ourshire.com.au (where I live now).

As for today, its a public holiday, so even though it has not cracked 10C yet, its sunny out. we will be outside for the day.

Excuse any silly spelling mistakes, as for the next little while I cant edit my own posts.


Cheers from another winterey Sydney day,


Wes


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## Pieman (13 Jun 2004)

> I was born in Poland and i came to Canada 16 years ago and i have a Canadian citizenship. My Polish passport expired like 2 years ago and i have no means to fill for a new one. Anyway would i still be able to join the british army??



I am really not sure Jarko, I did not look into the dual citizen complication when I was reading through the material. I am just a plain old Canadian  
You should contact the British recruiting center and ask them. If they say you would have to denounce one of your citizenships to join, then seriously think about that. You may regret dropping your Polish citizenship, if they asked you to...but then again, being a Paratrooper would be pretty cool, eh?


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## 1feral1 (13 Jun 2004)

In my post I am only referring to Australia, as I am not familiar with the British Army's joining instructions. As I did read the posts in this thread, I was suprised how things have changed there.


Cheers,

Wes


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## jarko (13 Jun 2004)

Alright i sent them an email, I'll post back when they reply.


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## 1feral1 (13 Jun 2004)

Nearly forgot, where I drink www.cronullarsl.com.au

These are our RSL's like the RCLs in Canada or VFWs in the USA.

Cheers,

Wes


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## jarko (16 Jun 2004)

I still havent got a clear reply from them. 

Anyway i sent a letter to them about the application, PIEMAN is there anyway you could scan the application to me or either photocopy it and send it to me by mail. I would pay you for the copying and delivery charges. I get the feeling its going to take a while to actually get the application? How long did it take you??

Also,

This might be an idiotic question.

I was born in Poland and i came with my family to Canada when i was 3 years old from Poland. I have am 19 now and i have lived in Canada ever since. Am i still treated as a dual citizen?? I mean i got my Canadian citizenship when i was little. But i dont know if i am a citizen of Poland??

Sorry these thing are confusing me.


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## Nat. Cap. Girl (16 Jun 2004)

D-n-A said:
			
		

> null, as far as I know, no military will take you if your a dual citizen, your have to denounce one of your citizenship's to enlist.


SERIOUSLY? I'm canadian (born in canada) but i also have my american citizenship... so does that mean i'll have to give up my american citizenship to join the canadian army?


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## molossus (16 Jun 2004)

I don't know if the rules have changed but I was a Royal Air Force policeman in the 80's. During my basic training we had (in no particular order) 2 Pakistanis, 1 Nigerian, 1 Jamaican, 1 Fijian, 2 Aussies, 1 Kiwi and a Canadian who joined up at the same time as me. The rules were to be that you had to be a British, Republic of Ireland or Commonwealth citizen to join. I know for a fact that is still the rule for the British police service.

Regards
Rich


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## belkin81 (16 Jun 2004)

jarko said:
			
		

> Thi But i dont know if i am a citizen of Poland??
> 
> Sorry these thing are confusing me.



LOL 100% chance if your born in poland...your a citizen of france....come on knucklehead!  

Listen they have a live chat you and anyone else is interested can go and ask a offical U.K recruiter that will answer all your questions.
Go
http://www.army.mod.uk/careers/enquire/index.html and there is the link to the live chat (remember they are 4 hours ahead of us)

http://www.army.mod.uk/careers/enquire/application_process_soldier.html - Lists the application process...you will have to go overseas to do the tests, physical, medical.


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## jarko (16 Jun 2004)

God damit they just told me that people with dual nationalities cant join!!

Well i guess when i sign up i wont tell them anything about my Polish nationality since i havent been there for 16 years and i dont even remember the place. This is dumb! I was only 3 years old when i left. So practically i am a Canadian citizen and my nationality is Canadian.

BTW i am going to try to join the Royal military commandos


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## Pieman (16 Jun 2004)

> PIEMAN is there anyway you could scan the application to me or either photocopy it and send it to me by mail.


Sorry, I already filled out my applicatoin form and sent it off. Just email the recruiters and give them your address. I got my forms in only a couple weeks via mail.

That is too bad they will not let you if you have a dual nationality, but I am not sure that if you simply don't tell them they won' t find out. At some point they will do a security clearance check and if they find out you lied you could get in some serious trouble. They only way to drop your Polish citizenship is to formally denounce it....and I have no idea how you would do that, and I think that would be a really silly thing to do just so you can serve in Britian. 

An EU citizenship is a very very good thing to have, believe me. You are already entitled to work anywhere in Europe without a work permit. Think about that.


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## belkin81 (16 Jun 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> An EU citizenship is a very very good thing to have, believe me. You are already entitled to work anywhere in Europe without a work permit. Think about that.



England isn't in the EU...


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## BDTyre (16 Jun 2004)

Sure it is; they joined in the 1970s, I believe.  They just don't use the Euro, and I can't say I blame them.


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## Infanteer (16 Jun 2004)

The bullshit is practically falling out of this thread....


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## Pieman (16 Jun 2004)

> England isn't in the EU...


I was referring to jarko's Polish citizenship which makes him a EU citizen. And yes, the Brits are also in the EU.


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## jarko (17 Jun 2004)

Nah there is no way i will denounce my Polish citizenship. I know its good to have and even if the British army is kick ass, it's not enough to take me to that extreme. So its either the Canadian army or the FFL for me. I filled out the application for the Royal Military Commandos and put Canada as the place of birth. Although it probably won't work. It's always better to try than regret later. Also i dont understand why can't you get a dual nationality. Maybe if i get a waiver or something, because my situation is a little different. I am practically Canadian.


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## 1feral1 (17 Jun 2004)

You'd have to be mad to do the FFL thing. They treat their troops like crap, and I know of three ex-CF mbrs who AWOL'd at the high port to get out of it. They could not phathom the abuse.

If you are keen, stick with the British Commonwealth (where the most professional armies are), preferably the CF or try an inquiry down here. England too bloody cold and damp anyways. You can keep the dual nationality (POL/CDA), and infact you can hold 3 or more passports here. No restrictions.

The idea all seems to be full of adventure, and I have lived and done the most twisted things here with the Army, and I have met the most excellent people ever, let me tell ya. But remember, it has its drawbacks too. Otherwords, you cant fly home for the weekend, and it gives a new defination to the word independant.

Seriously weigh the pros and cons of living in another country and starting a total new life. It aint no holiday.

Regards,

Wes


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## Pieman (17 Jun 2004)

I already received a responce from the British Army (I sent my application express and it got there yesterday).   They emailed today and said that they were forwarding the medical questionare part of the application off to a medical Officer. That   medical review could take 6 weeks. After that they will contact me again.

Fast responce, I was kind of surprised.


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## Pieman (7 Jul 2004)

Things appear to be moving along:
I received a letter from the British Army Medical Officer with some forms that he wants me to take to my family Doctor. They want more details of my medical history.   I have six weeks to respond or they will close my file. The hard part here is I know my family doctor really hates filling out forms! This is going to take some coaxing.


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## belkin81 (8 Jul 2004)

pieman, what was the reason for the additional medical request? Did you have a operation or broken bones or is it just standard. I ask because I have a friend applying also from PEI who had an operation on a rupsured apendix.


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## Pieman (9 Jul 2004)

Actually they wanted to know more about an allergy medication I took when I was younger. I used to have to take eye drops and a nose spray as I was allergic to grass and pretty much anything coloured green. I have not had allergies to anything since I was about 13, but I guess they want to know more. Should not be a problem as it was so long ago.

If your buddy had an operation he might want to consider going to his Dr. and getting a note beforehand saying what happened and that he is 100% recovered from it. If he includes that with his initial application, that may prevent them from sending similar forms that were sent to me. A possible time saver.


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## Jumbuck (23 Jul 2004)

Ya there is a lot of misinformation on this forum. My buddy aplied to join the British army last year for the parachute regiment and he is a straight Canadian citizen and they took him. He was told that all he needed was a Sponsor, no work permit or anything because they took care of all that. They paid for his flight to Britain to do all his tests on the same day but he had to pay for his return flight home. Hes gonna try for SAS selection once he can.


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## Pieman (23 Jul 2004)

> Ya there is a lot of misinformation on this forum. My buddy applied to join the British army last year for the parachute regiment and he is a straight Canadian citizen and they took him. He was told that all he needed was a Sponsor, no work permit or anything because they took care of all that. They paid for his flight to Britain to do all his tests on the same day but he had to pay for his return flight home. Hes gonna try for SAS selection once he can.



Actually, the misinformation with regard to the work permit has been corrected, try reading it again. The process is not so clear cut as you may like to think as you read about it from your armchair. A lot of forms and paper work to dig through and like i said i am just figuring this out as i go through the process.

If your buddy was flown out there and he did all his testing in one day that is really oddly fantastic. However, the British recruiters are telling me * directly * that I have to fly myself out there and then stay there for the entire selection process, which is 4-6 months. So I am not sure when your friend went over there, but it would appear the process has changed drastically. Perhaps your freind had previous military experience, which may be the cause of the difference in process? Or perhaps it is because I am applying as an Officer and he was a NCM? The process for those situations are different, and I am simply posting my experience as an applicant for a British Officer position as it happens.


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## Jumbuck (23 Jul 2004)

He was going NCM and it was over a year ago to so who knows.


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## Pieman (3 Aug 2004)

Got an email from the British recruiting center and my medical has cleared OK. 

They have invited me to come out there for the rest of the application for the middle of this October! 

They are sending me a bunch of information in the mail which will give me all the details of what I have to do. So I have to start to prepare to leave as I will also need a place to stay and hopefully some kind of job to help support myself. I will post again after I get the package in the mail, as I will have a better idea of how this is going to work then.


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## ringo_mountbatten (3 Aug 2004)

just a hint for a job if you are going to london, in particular.  go to a pub and normally they will hire you under the table and have some sort of room and board agreement.


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## Pieman (14 Aug 2004)

Been a busy week for The Pieman, lots of info was sent to me. Some things about this application are more clear, but there are a lot of decisions yet to be made. 

From my understanding, my application for a British Officer is going to go   something like this: 

First, I will travel to London around October 15th. Upon arriving I will meet with a recruiter for my initial interview. If they like me they will then schedule me to go to something called the regular Commission Board' (RCB) Briefing.

While waiting for my appointment in the briefing I am to try to gain sponsorship from a regiment of my choice. I have selected a Parachute Regiment that interests me the most so far. I will set up an interview and travel to that regiment. They will conduct an interview and if they like you they will support your formal application to the Forces.   Most of these regiments have a weekend course you can attend where they will stick you in some green camo, give you a tour of the regiment, have you run around obstacle courses, give some lectures on what they do etc. Sounds like so much fun! I will be making an effort to contact the regiment and set up a date next week.

After that my RCB   Briefing date will come up. The briefing lasts 1 1/2 days . The webpage says that it is simply information on their testing procedures and selection process. 

After the briefing I would procede to the RCB Main Board. From what I understand from my recruiter, I should be able to get into this the middle of November. This is a full 4 day Officer selection process. During this time it sounds like they do similar things that the CF does, but also a lot of things that are specific to selecting people with leadership abilities. I will give a run down of the 4 days:

Day 1: Upon arriving there is a formal greeting and lecture by the Brass. This is followed by a series of written tests. (I assume these are same kind of aptitude tests the CF does)

Day 2: Applicants are divided up into a group of 8 and assigned a Group Leader who will observe and test the group. 
               - First thing is a open discussion where all 8 members are given a topic to talk about. Applicants are tested on their ability to express ideas and listen to others. 
               - More interviews are conducted by a Vice President, Deputy President, and a Education adviser.
               - The group heads outdoors and the group leader will lead the group through obstacle courses and watches the applicants ability to work in a team.
               (Sounds like a long day!)

Day 3:   Outdoor tasks are assigned and each member is given command of the group and leads them to solve the problem. This is really where they are looking for leadership abilities.
                 - An individual obstacle course is run
                 - Each applicant gives an informal five minute lecture to the group on five points that will be taken from your CV. This is to test our ability to communicate your knowledge to other people. 
                 - Formal Dinner

Day 4: Last day a race between all the groups is done.
              - The formal medical exam is conducted
              - Loads of paper work to fill out
              - The acceptance/rejection sent to you the following day. (Pending your medical)

After that I would be accepted for training at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst (RMAS). Sandhurst intakes people three times a year, January, May, and September. From my talks with the recruiter and people on British Army forums, it is probably not likely I would get in January, but I should be able to make the May intake provided there are openings. So I am aiming for Commission in May of next year. BTW The training at Sandhurst looks simply amazing! It is broken into 3 terms and they let you go on a adventure trip (Africa or New Zealand or etc)   (http://www.atra.mod.uk/rmas/courses/structure.htm)

Now comes the hard part, getting over there and supporting myself is not going to be an easy task at this point. I don't have much time to arrange all this and raise enough money by October. Am I going to be able to do this so soon? I am not sure yet, but I will do my best to make it happen.

My plan is to do this in two trips. First, I will go over from October - November. If everything goes as planned I should be able to come back to Canada and then return again in May to start my training. Will I be able to do all these things in 2 months? I don't know. I am going to phone my recruiter on Monday to see if this plan is realistic or not. 

*Man, just realized how long that post was! Thankfully Ninja Snipers type fast.


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## Big Bad John (14 Aug 2004)

Good Luck!  But consider the Royals...Marine training is superior to all other!


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## 1feral1 (14 Aug 2004)

Sounds like a lot of hard yakka, and definately a lot more hoops to jump thru than I did back in 94/95.

Best of luck in your future endeavours, and remember - never give in, never give up, never back down, accept any challenge, and go hard or go home! There is a lot more at stake here than your pride. Once the peer pressure is on, you'll know exactly what I mean. During trg, I was singled out many times because I was a foreigner DE'd as a SGT at that too, and I had to 'prove' myself before being accepted by the troops, and I usually still do, as again I am posted at yr's end, and to a different Bde in the tropics, which means all new faces. At 44, I take no shyte anymore. PERIOD.

There was times I was cained so hard, I wanted to give in on occasion (one time after a wicked caining after a hell march in the heat), I wrung out the blood from my socks, and the lads just thought I was nuts), but I always seemed to get this second wind from somewhere within, and I sure did not want to embarass myself, my rank, fomer CF corps, and the CF. 

I used to say to myself many times 'alright you bastards, I'll show ya what this Canadian is made of'. Sheer determination to gain respect of my peers, subordinates and superiors, which paid out on assessments over the years. Lots of times the blokes I was trg with were +10 yrs younger than myself.

Anyways enough of me 'flashing back'. I am sure you'll get what you're after.

Time for a Queensland beer (XXXX Gold) and a nice 'rare steak' on the barbie, she's pushing 1800 now.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Pieman (14 Aug 2004)

Big Bad John and Wes,

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I appreciate it. But I am still a long way from getting my butt over to Britain, lots could go wrong yet! 



> Good Luck!  But consider the Royals...Marine training is superior to all other!


I don't know about the Marines...i saw a video of the Marines and those guys scare me!  I will look into them again, but I believe I excluded that option as I could not be an Officer because I am over 25 from what I remember.

Actually, I check out the Royal Navy as well as the Royal Air Force. I ruled them both out as options be cause I was extremely limited in the number of positions I would be able to take. In the Navy, very few Officer positions are open to Canadians. In the Air Force, I face the same problem and could not obtain a position that put me inside any of the aircraft. I did look into being a RAF Gunner Officer (man, those guys look so cool!) But again I am over 25 and cannot apply as an Officer, I could be a NCM still, but that is not my calling.



> I was singled out many times because I was a foreigner DE'd as a SGT at that too, and I had to 'prove' myself before being accepted by the troops



I have been thinking about this, as I know that I will never quite fit in no matter how hard I try. I can already hear the Moose and Igloo jokes. I wish I could impersonate a good British Accent, but the best I can do is a solid impersonation of John Cleese's 'Silly Walk' from the Monty Python shows. I suspect that would not go over well...especially in drill.  I see it as an extra challenge I have to deal with and I believe the experience will be worth it in the end. I take comfort knowing that other Canadians have done this before and survived.



> There was times I was cained so hard, I wanted to give in on occasion (one time after a wicked caining after a heck march in the heat), I wrung out the blood from my socks, and the lads just thought I was nuts), but I always seemed to get this second wind from somewhere within, and I sure did not want to embarass myself, my rank, fomer CF corps, and the CF.  I used to say to myself many times 'alright you bastards, I'll show ya what this Canadian is made of'. Sheer determination to gain respect of my peers, subordinates and superiors, which paid out on assessments over the years. Lots of times the blokes I was trg with were +10 yrs younger than myself.



My hat goes off to you Wes for pushing through all that, I can only hope I have as much determination if I ever get over there.  I will raise a pint of Guinness in your name tonight.

Pieman


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## Figure11 (15 Aug 2004)

As one who crossed the pond and enlisted back in the '80's, I have followed this thread with interest. For me, it was a very simple and straightforeward process, although I'm sure that much has changed over the years. In those days the Brit army had over 50 regular infantry battalions and it only took a few months   to proceed from careers office to depot. I joined as a private soldier which also, no doubt, helped speed-up the process considerably. I absolutely agree with Wes that it can be quite a culture shock, when you immerse yourself in a different country so deeply.
 Although I have British family members, I remember feeling like a fish out of water at first. My first year of what turned out to be a five year hitch was a total grind. By the second however, everything seemed to fall into place with an audible "click". If the first year was lousy, the next four more than made up for it. After five years, I was seriously considering dropping anchor there permanently.
Don't worry about being different! Ultimately your men will respect you based on your ability to lead, and how you treat them. Our battalion had an American captain on secondment for a year or two. He was well liked by the lads in #2 company and known universally as "Hank the Yank." Your colleagues and fellow soldiers will, I am sure, take the piss mercilessly just like they did to me, but that is to be expected in army life and always remember that while they are doing it to you, you will be doing it to them.   Before you know it you will be one of them and amongst comrades and friends,   some of the best folk in the world and the likes of which you would never have the privilege of meeting in civvy street. This   will be reinforced if you end up on the streets of NI or, I guess nowadays, Basra. 
The very best of luck to you.


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## Big Bad John (16 Aug 2004)

Good luck.  The best advice I can give apart from the obvious, is to make sure you are very well rested before any interviews or schemes.  If you must go in the army, apply for the All Arms Commando Course.  it is part of "basic" training for all marines.  The army provides the Royals with support in the form of 29 Commando RE and 29 Commando  RA.  All graduates of the All Arms Commando Course!

Also start reading "Soldier", the official magazine of the British Army, if you can find a copy.

Cheers!


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## Jascar (20 Aug 2004)

Could someone post a link for the British Army forums? I've searched the net for them but had no luck so far. Thanks.


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## Big Bad John (21 Aug 2004)

Ministry Of Defense   http://www.mod.uk/

MOD Armed Forces Links   http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/Government/Defence/

Army   http://www.army.mod.uk/

Royal Navy   http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/

Royal Marines   http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/141.html

Royal Air Force   http://www.raf.mod.uk/

BATUS pictures   http://www.army.mod.uk/12brigade/batus_pictures/

Overview BATUS   http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/whatsgoingon/canada_battlefield_batus.htm

CFB Suffield  BATUS    http://www.army.dnd.ca/cfb_suffield/batus.html

I hope that this helps!  Cheers


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## Big Bad John (21 Aug 2004)

I copied this from the RM web site.  I hope that it answers some general questions:


RM OFFICER ENTRY REQUIREMENTS 

There are four routes to becoming an Officer. Whichever route is taken, you must still pass our regular selection procedure. 

1. Scholarship and Reserved Place Scheme 
Qualifications: For an award: 5 acceptable GCSE grades/SCE Standard/Ordinary Grade passes (or equivalent) including English and Maths. No break in education between GCSE (or SCE Standard/Ordinary grades and 'A' levels or SCE Highers or CSYS). Formal applications must be received by 1 June of the year of selection. 

Age limits: Enter with Direct Entry. 

2. Direct Entry 
Qualifications: 2 GCE 'A' levels (or equivalent) and 3 acceptable GCSE (or equivalent) or SCE passes in 5 subjects to include 3 at the Higher Grade. English and maths are mandatory subjects. 

Age limits: 17 to under 26 on 1 September of year of entry. 

Minimum Return of Service: Return of Service begins on completion of phase 2 training and runs for three years. 

3. Bursaries 
Bursaries are also available for Candidates who do not want to join the Service before starting a degree course. Holders remain civilians while at university. 

Age limits: 17 to under 22 on 1 September of year of entry. 

Minimum Return of Service: The Return of Service runs from the beginning of the final year of degree studies and expires upon completion of five years' service from completion of phase 2 training. 

4. Direct Graduate Entry 
Qualifications: A UK degree or equivalent and acceptable GCSE grades/SCE Standard/Ordinary Grade passes (or equivalent in English and maths. 

Age limits: Under 26 on 1 September of year of entry. 

Minimum Return of Service: Return of Service begins on completion of phase 2 training and runs for three years. 

Height restrictions 
Officers must be at least 1.65m tall. 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RM COMMANDO ENTRY REQUIREMENTS 

Qualifications: Must pass selection test (Reasoning, Literacy, Numeracy and Mechanical Comprehension), interview, medical examination and Potential Royal Marines Course (PRMC). Male Only. 

Age limits: 16â â€œ27 (up to and including day of 28th birthday only). 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RM BAND SERVICE MEMBER REQUIREMENTS 

Musician or Bugler (Male and Female) 

Qualifications Must pass selection test (Reasoning, Literacy, Numeracy and Mechanical Comprehension, interview and medical examination. Must pass an audition for musical aptitude, as well as a dental and fitness check, at the Royal Marines School of Music. 

Age limits: 16â â€œ27 (up to and including day of 28th birthday only). 

Height restrictions: Band members must be at least 1.55m tall. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RM RESERVIST ENTRY REQUIREMENTS 

Royal Marines reservists come from all walks of life. 

Qualifications: You must be reasonably fit and have a strong desire to spend your leisure time developing your skills and personality in a highly professional and committed environment. 

Age limits: Between 17-30. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




NOTES AND FURTHER INFORMATION 


Acceptable GCSE grades are normally grades C and above. 

The term 'pass' when referring to SCE Standard/Ordinary Grade examinations means grades 1, 2 and 3/A, B and C. 

GCE 'O' levels grade C or above are normally accepted in lieu of GCSE grades C or above. CSE (Certificate of Secondary Education) Grade 1 passes are normally acceptable in lieu of GCSE grades C or above. 

GCSE and GCE 'A' levels must be in non-overlapping subjects, acceptable to the Ministry of Defence. 

Educational qualifications other than those shown eg GNVQ at Advanced Level and BTEC may be accepted if, in the opinion of the Ministry of Defence, they are of similar or higher standard. 

Details of educational requirements for every specialisation and entry are laid down in the booklet CG (ED). 

The Ministry of Defence reserves the right to take into account the grades obtained in examinations and the overall time taken to attain the educational qualifications when calling candidates for interview or awarding or confirming places.
Selection and Entry 
Selection for all entries is by interview and medical examination. All candidates for the Royal Marines enter at the Commando Training Centre, Lympstone, Devon. 

Scholarship and Reserved Place Scheme 
Candidates must be at school in the United Kingdom or at a British Forces school overseas. Parents of those awarded a scholarship may be assisted financially to help their son or daughter remain at school while taking 'A' levels or Scottish equivalent. The tenure of a scholarship can be either one or two years. Scholarship awards are made annually in January but backdated to the previous September. A number of places are also reserved at the Britannia RN College, Dartmouth or the Officer Training Wing, Royal Marines, Lympstone, for candidates who do not obtain a scholarship but are highly recommended. A reserved place does not carry any financial assistance. 

Holders of scholarships and reserved places are eligible for University Sponsorship. Two-year award holders will require a further interview. 

Return of Service 
In return for a Commission and training, the Royal Navy expects Officers to serve a minimum length of time, known as Return of Service. This varies according to the type of Commission and the type of entry. Therefore, although it is possible to apply to leave at any time, an Officer is expected to give a reasonable Return of Service for the investment in training the Royal Navy commits to you. Details are shown alongside each method of entry.


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## Pieman (21 Aug 2004)

> Could someone post a link for the British Army forums? I've searched the net for them but had no luck so far. Thanks.


There are a number of small ones around, the one I got the most information and feedback off of was on Millitary.com

 http://forums.military.com/   
look in the 'United Kingdom Military Forces Discussions' folder.

I go under the handle of PhaseSpace on that forum. 

There are a few others, but the only ones I found are small,   and there does not seem to be anything like Army.ca out there.
if anyone knows of good ones, please also post a link.


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## Kirkhill (21 Aug 2004)

http://www.arrse.co.uk/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index&sid=2b01141a0cf5dc742f2a4e5866972eff

Try this one.  It is similar to Army.ca


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## meni0n (21 Sep 2004)

Well, I had my application all filled up nicely except that I know no one in England so I had no one to put in as a sponsor. Would have liked to get into the 216 hq & sigs.


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## Pieman (21 Sep 2004)

> Well, I had my application all filled up nicely except that I know no one in England so I had no one to put in as a sponsor. Would have liked to get into the 216 hq & sigs.


I don't really know anyone there, nor do I have someone over there to sponsor me.  Do you mean this as a residence permit issue? or a sponsor from a regiment? Neither of those should be an issue, unless the rules were a lot different when you applied.


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## meni0n (22 Sep 2004)

The application is quiet recent, I got it last october. It just says that I have to have a sponsor in the UK that they can contact and ask if he knows me and vouch for me. At least that's what it says in the documentation I got with the application.


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## Pieman (22 Sep 2004)

> The application is quiet recent, I got it last October. It just says that I have to have a sponsor in the UK that they can contact and ask if he knows me and vouch for me. At least that's what it says in the documentation I got with the application.



Not what I had in any of the forms I filled out.  Maybe check into it again if you are still interested. (Were you applying as an NCM? Then that is a very different process.)

While I am at it, I should update my application situation a little:

I received a boat load of forms in the mail and official letters for my interviews. I had the interview dates pushed back to the middle of November to give myself more time to get ready, raise money etc. So I will not leave for the UK until early November.

They wanted all the original documentation and original school transcripts,  birth certificate etc. so i fired all that stuff back to them vis registered express mail.

I have set up an appointment with a Parachute regiment. I will have an interview with these people and spend two days on their base going on tours and attending lectures, it is all free too! I will need a regimental sponsor to get into sandhurst, so this is a very important point. They are not obligated to take me even if they sponsor me into training, but I cannot get into the Army without the support of a regiment. I am trying to set up appointments at a couple of other regiments.

I am currently scouting out for apartments, and that is not going to be a huge problem I don't think. With any luck I will have an apartment set up for me this soon.


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## meni0n (22 Sep 2004)

Yes I was applying as an NCM so that's probably the difference in applications.


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## Jascar (22 Sep 2004)

A couple of questions for you Pieman. First, how long did it take for your information package and application form to arrive when you requested it? It's been a month since I asked for an application and I still haven't seen anything. Second, how long do you have from the time you apply to the time you can go over there for the tests and interviews? Is there a time limit? I think you might have already mentioned that, but if you could tell us again it'd be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Pieman (22 Sep 2004)

> First, how long did it take for your information package and application form to arrive when you requested it?


I don't recall, it was about 2-3 weeks before I got it in the mail. Things can sometimes take 6 weeks in the mail coming from overseas. But you may want to call/email and confirm if you application has been mailed off.



> Second, how long do you have from the time you apply to the time you can go over there for the tests and interviews? Is there a time limit?



I applied back in April and got the invitation for the first interview for this October. 7 months. However, I hit a snag on my medical clearance as they requested more information. If there are no snags, the medical is supposed to take 3 weeks, mine took about 7 weeks as I had to track down the extra info and mailing/processing times etc. So I think 6 months is a pretty good estimate in time before you go over.

I don't know about time limits, the only big time limit (Officers only) is that you have to be under 28 years old when you first apply. The maximum age an Officer can start training is 29. The age restrictions are different for NCM.

Eitherway, don't take anything I write here as gold, things change constantly in these situations. So use it as a basic guideline.


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## ReadyAyeReady (23 Sep 2004)

Pieman, a few more questions if you don't mind...

What exactly does the package they send over contain?  Are the application requirements similar to the CF (ie. Birth Certificates, References, Visual exams etc.), I wouldn't mind knowing so that I can have some things prepared before the package arrives in the mail.

I read on the FAQ list on the British Army website that Commonwaelth citizens (ie non-British) may not be eligible for certain positions...did they tell you this through the application process and did they indicate which positions were not available to Comm. citizens?

I'm assumning they also do a security background check?  Is it similar to the CF checks, and does it take as long as it does with the CF (Something to consider in terms of timing things out properly.  It seems from the posts on this website that the CF or CSIS or whoever is notoriously slow with the Securtiy Clearances).

When I initially enquired about joining they told me to email them my name, address, D.O.B and Nationality and they would send me a package.  Is this the way you did it as well? (I just want to make sure I get this thing in the mail and am not waiting around forever.)

Whats a PM? (Private Message...)

Cheers.


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## Pieman (23 Sep 2004)

Hi ReadyAyeReady,

A PM is a Private message, you can send one by clicking 'Hey, ReadyAyeReady, you have X messages...' and that will take you the message inbox.



> What exactly does the package they send over contain?   Are the application requirements similar to the CF (ie. Birth Certificates, References, Visual exams etc.), I wouldn't mind knowing so that I can have some things prepared before the package arrives in the mail.



The package I got had a brochure and some forms. The forms are very similar to the CF application forms and want your personal, educational info, work experience etc. There is also a medical questionnaire. They need photo copies of your birth certificate, all your educational transcripts. Be sure to photocopy and send everything they ask for, otherwise you will hold up your file. They did not ask me for references until much later after my interview dates were confirmed. The medical questionnaire is straight forward and has a whole bunch of questions on your history. If you wear glasses like I do, you have to go to the eye doctor and have him check your eyes and write down your current vision, and you include that with your medical questionnaire. 



> I read on the FAQ list on the British Army website that Commonwealth citizens (ie non-British) may not be eligible for certain positions...did they tell you this through the application process and did they indicate which positions were not available to Comm. citizens?



This is true for certain Officer positions, but I don't have a full understanding of this topic.   The British Army is a lot less restrictive about this issue than the Royal Air Force, and British Navy. It is the main reason I am going British Army instead of RAF. In the RAF or the Navy, they are quite restrictive about the positions commonwealth citizens can take for the Officer role. It seems one cannot get in an aircraft in the RAF doing anything, and one is very restricted from Officer positions in the Navy. Check their webpages for full details.

In the British Army, the restrictions are much less for Officers and Commonwealth appear to be able to take on almost any role. To be honest, I have not run across any information saying that Commonwealth citizens cannot take position X in the BA, but I am sure there may be a few. You will have to ask the British recruiters this one. If you are considering a role in Intelligence, I would certainly ask, as in the Army this may be one of the restricted ones, but I don't know for sure.



> I'm assuming they also do a security background check?   Is it similar to the CF checks, and does it take as long as it does with the CF (Something to consider in terms of timing things out properly.   It seems from the posts on this website that the CF or CSIS or whoever is notoriously slow with the Securtiy Clearances).


You will get the security clearance form after you set up interview dates etc. I just did that a couple weeks ago myself. I don't know anything about how their clearance works, but they say that I should have no problems getting into training by May, so   I assume the security clearance should be done by then. This is a topic that I don't have good info on either, so if you ask about it I find more info on it, then please post info here.



> When I initially enquired about joining they told me to email them my name, address, D.O.B and Nationality and they would send me a package.   Is this the way you did it as well? (I just want to make sure I get this thing in the mail and am not waiting around forever.)


Yup, that's how I did it. If you did it by email they should respond and say they sent it. If you did not get an email like that after a week or so I would try to contact them again to make sure.


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## ReadyAyeReady (23 Sep 2004)

Thanks for all the info Pieman..that will give me a chance to prepare myself a bit better for whats coming in the mail.

I'm not too sure either about what trades/occupations are closed to non-Brits...but I'm guessing Int might be in there as well as some of those more prestigious units like the Life Guards, Household Cavalry and those other regiments that guard Buck House and bup around on horses and what not.  That's my guess anyway...

I'll be sure to send you a PM as I am sure we can learn alot from each other...


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## ReadyAyeReady (29 Sep 2004)

Hey Pieman and anyone else who can help,

I've already hit my first hurdle here on applying to the British Forces.  The office I contacted for info on joining is called the Overseas Recuriting Cell...well they sent me a great info package but its all the wrong stuff!  The letter stated that "A career as an Officer is not available through this department."  Basically, they only deal with recruiting soldiers...not officers.  So they sent me all this info on joining as a soldier.  Aside from the fact that I'm annoyed that they didn't just tell me when I initially emailed as I clearly stated that I was interested in a career as an Officer, my question is who the hell do I contact to get all the info I need...namely the application package for Officers?


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## Pieman (29 Sep 2004)

Hmmm that is strange, but mistakes can happen. My file is being processed in an office/branch of their recruiting system that is specific for overseas officer recruiting it is possible you were forwarded to the wrong one by mistake. Sending a PM.....


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## hiv (8 Oct 2004)

Just thought I'd contribute my experiences with the UK bureaucracy.

I'm in the process of applying to the RAF as an officer but from what I can tell it's somewhat different since I'm still a serving member of the CF. My most recent correspondence with the recruiting office informed me that my time in the CF would not give me any advanced standing or pension buy-back which is a bit unfortunate but not catastrophic. They also requested copies of my most recent PDRs and my transcript from University.

From what I can gather I can waive a large portion of the recruiting process since I already possess a Top Secret clearance and won't have to bother having a background check done due to this. If everything goes well from this point, I was informed that I would be invited out to a 3-day "mini-selection" in Lincolnshire at the RAF College (the real name eludes me at this moment) at the end of which I'll be informed if they want to take me on or not. I think the biggest hurdle at that point would be getting out of my current contract with the CF. I'm currently on my IE so at the most it would take 6 months but I hope the RAF would be willing to accommodate this little "issue".

Anyway, I'll keep this thread updated as things go just in case anyone else has an interest in this process. Wish me luck.


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## Canuck_25 (9 Oct 2004)

I have hada similar problem readyeyeready. I asked information on joining the TA and univeristy sponsorship for commonwealth students. They sent me a package for recruiting soldiers. I was disapointed so i contacted them again, and recieved an apology. 

   She told me she recieves 400 emails a day, so i cant understand srew ups.


  I also found info on the net that they are considering forming a commonwealth regiment since they recieve so many applicants


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## Pieman (9 Oct 2004)

> I also found info on the net that they are considering forming a commonwealth regiment since they recieve so many applicants


Interesting. Where did you see this info?


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## Big Bad John (9 Oct 2004)

The Commonwealth Regiment rumour has been around for years.  It has never made it out of the Mess as far as I know.  Some Units have a high percentage of their members from different areas of the Commonwealth.  Fijians are prevalent in some Regiments, such as the Irish Guards. 

As was mentioned in another one of the forums here, this has been a rumour for as long as I've served (22 years).  As I have mentioned before, pick up a copy of "Soldier" magazine.  I have found it in better magazine shops in Canada.  A lot of rumours get dispelled there and it is amazing the amount of information you can gather.  I have even noticed that they will send you a free copy from the URL below.

cheers!

http://www.soldiermagazine.co.uk/


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## Big Bad John (10 Oct 2004)

A few people might want the Royal Marine URL for the new web site, as opposed to the main web site shared with the Royal Navy.  The independent URL is http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/index.shtml  I hope people find this of use.


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## Canuck_25 (12 Oct 2004)

Big Bad John said:
			
		

> A few people might want the Royal Marine URL for the new web site, as opposed to the main web site shared with the Royal Navy.   The independent URL is http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/index.shtml   I hope people find this of use.



 Nice link, thanks.


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## hiv (17 Oct 2004)

I just received a letter from the RAF asking for a copy of my university transcript. We'll see how long it takes U of Waterloo to get that to me


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## Pieman (17 Oct 2004)

Tribal Jedi,

What kind of Officer position are you applying for in the RAF? I noticed that commonwealth people are pretty limited in the type of officer positions that one can take in the RAF.


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## Canuck_25 (17 Oct 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> Tribal Jedi,
> 
> What kind of Officer position are you applying for in the RAF? I noticed that commonwealth people are pretty limited in the type of officer positions that one can take in the RAF.



 Hey i thought you are in Britain right now?


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## Pieman (17 Oct 2004)

Nope. I leave end of this month. I pushed my interview dates back into November so I would have more time to raise money and prepare. The 2.28 CDN = 1 pound exchange rate is not helping my wallet on this at all.  They say I will still be able to get in by May despite the delay so long as there are no major snags.


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## Canuck_25 (17 Oct 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> Nope. I leave end of this month. I pushed my interview dates back into November so I would have more time to raise money and prepare. The 2.28 CDN = 1 pound exchange rate is not helping my wallet on this at all.  They say I will still be able to get in by May despite the delay so long as there are no major snags.



  I am applying to UNI's this week. What i plan on doing is joining the TA during the summer for experience. Then, when i finish my BA in history, i will apply for an officer. Let me know how it goes for you over there for you, because ill be in the same boat in 4 years hopefully.


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## hiv (18 Oct 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> Tribal Jedi,
> 
> What kind of Officer position are you applying for in the RAF? I noticed that commonwealth people are pretty limited in the type of officer positions that one can take in the RAF.



I had a list of everything I could do before but I seemed to have misplaced it. Essentially, they told me that as a Canadian I can't do anything on a plane but everything else was open up. I considered Air Traffic and RAF Gunner for a time but finally decided upon Gunner as I read a little more about the actual job. Apparently my security clearance goes a long way towards satisfying some of their residency and application requirements so I may not have to go through the hassle of a normal overseas applicant. Will update my situation as it changes.

Cheers
Jason


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## Pieman (18 Oct 2004)

> considered Air Traffic and RAF Gunner for a time but finally decided upon Gunner as I read a little more about the actual job.


Good for you! I looked into being a Gunner Officer myself as it looks like an incredible job, but believe it or not at the ripe old age of 27, I am too old.   :-\   I could be a NCM Gunner, but it would kinda be a waste of my education. Anyway, good luck to you on that.


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## ReadyAyeReady (19 Oct 2004)

Tribal Jedi,

When you say that your security clearance satisfied some of their residency and application requirements what did you mean by that?  Do you mean that you basically don't have to go through a Brit secutiy clearance?  That would definitely speed up the process I'm sure.

Hey Pieman, 

I just got a huge package in the mail with all the medical forms and other application stuff.  They also sent me a form with a bunch of questions concerning my interest in the British Army and my relationship to the UK.  I'm not sure if any of you got this form as well but it basically has a bunch of questions like: Have you ever lived in the UK before?  Do you have any relatives in the UK? etc. etc.  Anyway, the first question on that form is: Why do you want to serve in the British Army? Well...I could go on for pages about that...so I'm just wondering how you handled that question...did you just write a few brief lines or did you give them the whole story...I guess I'm just wondering how important the questionnaire is.

Rob.


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## Pieman (19 Oct 2004)

> Why do you want to serve in the British Army? Well...I could go on for pages about that...so I'm just wondering how you handled that question...did you just write a few brief lines or did you give them the whole story...I guess I'm just wondering how important the questionnaire is.



I filled it out so long ago...Just use the space provided. I believe i just noted that both my grandfathers and a few of my Uncles have served with the Canadian Forces and some have fought along side British forces. I also said that I was a proud commonwealth citizen, and that I believed that because we all serve under the same Queen and share the many of the same values, I did not see much difference between our two countries. I also said that I felt there were more career options and greater opportunity in the British Army. I did not mention the Canadian Army at all.

Whatever you do, always use a positive tone in these kinds of things, as a negative tone reflects badly on you. i.e. Don't say 'I am applying to the British Army, in part,  because my Canadian application has been sitting one some guy's desk collecting dust for 6 months' It may be true but they don't want to hear that.   :warstory: 

In all, I don't know how much weight it carries, probably not much since it is such a small part of the application. But I don't think they want a long letter. In fact, after you pass the RCB Briefing, you have to write an essay before you go to the RCB Main Board. I am willing to bet that is the question you have to answer.


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## hiv (19 Oct 2004)

ReadyAyeReady said:
			
		

> Tribal Jedi,
> 
> When you say that your security clearance satisfied some of their residency and application requirements what did you mean by that?   Do you mean that you basically don't have to go through a Brit secutiy clearance?   That would definitely speed up the process I'm sure.



I can't really get into specifics but the US and the UK among other countries share a clearance system for better interoperability. Basically the way it goes is our clearances here are valid in the UK and vice-versa. Anyway, since I'm already cleared Top Secret they don't really need to do a background check et al because it would just be redundant.


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## NavyGrunt (26 Oct 2004)

Hey guys 

I've seen some former Royal Marines floating around here and I've got a question. Im not looking for anything from those of you who havent been an RM. Not a slag just Im sure I know as much as you. For the selection course what physical standard was competitive? I got my paper work and I meet the minimums but I dont want to look like an ass. Its an expensive trip to just fly over and get kicked in the ego.

Send me a PM if you would.

Cheers,
Aaron.


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## Canuck_25 (2 Nov 2004)

I regret what im about to inform you guys. Please read the E-mail i recieved this morning.


Dear Robert,
I am sorry to inform you that as from tomorrow there is a change to the
Officer process. All applicants must have resided in the UK for 5 years to
be considered eligible for a Commission in the British Army. So, I am sorry
to say that if you have not lived in the UK for this stated period then you
could not be considered for Financial Sponsorship or Direct entry to the
British Army.

Your only alternative would be to do 3/4 year Degree in the UK funded by
yourself and then 6 months prior to completion of the Degree apply for a
Commission in the British Army. 

I am sorry to impart this disappointing news.

Regards
L. Bradbury (Mrs)
Overseas Officer Recruiting group
02/11/04


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## Pieman (2 Nov 2004)

Greeting from London,

I made the jump across the pond thiis weekend and I am working hard to get myself set up here. It is a very difficult transiiton, leaving the country. I got myself in a hostel type of dorm and I am hunting for a flat and job. Living in dorm like conditions again is very unpleasant, and the cost of living here is pretty retarded. Everywhere, and I mean everywhere you go it it crowded and busy. I have not had time to stop for a pint of Guiness yet, but I hope to soon.

Canuck_25, I was really shocked to read that message. It looks as though I got a little lucky.  A strange move for them to do that, I wonder what the modivation was? security I can only guess, but it seems they are cutting off a valuabe source of soldiers. I will try to see if I can find some more info on that topic. 

Anyway, my first two interviews are next week. I will post again after that.


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## hiv (3 Nov 2004)

Good luck!

I'm still waiting for the RAF to sort themselves out here. Hopefully all goes swimmingly.


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## Torlyn (3 Nov 2004)

Pieman,

   Nice to know you respond here...    Hope things are going well, and the interviews are (relatively) easy.  Marco sends his regards, and yelled at me for the party.  He's got your email, so he may send you something.  Cheers, and remember, ALWAYS cheer Liverpool.  

T


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## hiv (4 Nov 2004)

Liverpool?

GUNNERS!!!


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## Big Bad John (5 Nov 2004)

Re: Physical quals for the RM.

This is the toughest course outside of SBS or SAS selection in the UK Forces.  60% of all students on the All Arms Commando Course fail due to insufficient physical prep.  Train hard and long for the course
John


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## winchable (5 Nov 2004)

Good on ya Pieman,
Welcome to my home (away from home though I'm not calling it home right now)
It's crowded, smelly and rude! Though you'll find the women are fit, the tube is the fastest way to get around if you don't mind the idea of Romanian street gangs watching you for any signs of wealth and of course the bar is *always* open.
Tell me, have you taken up smoking yet? Don't worry, you will ;D
Londons great though not my favorite city. When you do start looking for a place to establish yourself I reccomend Birmingham, it's like London..without all the English. ;D
My reccomendation is go to Piccadily circus and stand there for a few hours and you'll be caught up to speed with the rest of the city.
Bath, Southampton, Portsmouth (though you're going army so you might not enjoy that) Brighton (see what the gay prince built himself)
Don't get stuck in London, it's really not what England is about I find.
Get yourself a train pass of sorts and see the rest of the country.
Do all the tourist stuff, whatever you do DO NOT waste a day on the millenium Eye.
Take up Cricket, it's actually the friggin sweetest game if you get into it. How many sports can you sit there with a beer and a cigarette all day and still call it a sport?

Once you find a job though you'll find the prices aren't as bad, though you'll never find a cheap house or apartment.
Don't ask for Guiness if you want to fit in either. Always get bitter, never a lager.


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## Pieman (8 Nov 2004)

Hey Che, I am way the heck up in Cricklewood. The tube in London is really awesome but expensive. It is fast, but I have discovered that you can spend half the day walking in tunnels....I decided to go with bus after this, it is cheaper and you get to see the sky once in a while.

Playing cricket sounds good, I will try it out I think. I gave up smoking over two years ago so I am not about to start again!



> Don't ask for Guinness if you want to fit in either.


Take my Guinness from me? Not from my cold dead hands!!!   :blotto:

I agree that London is not the best place, I am going to do my best to see the rest of the country, and I have been applying to jobs in other cities.

To   update my situation I had my first Army interview today. It was with a civilian clerk and it was fairly straight forward. We walked through my application and talked about my education and CV. She asked me lots of standard questions about what I thought an Officer in the Army did, why I wanted to be one, etc. She asked why I wanted to join the British army instead of the Canadian. We then spent the rest of the time talking about the rest of the selection process. 

I asked her if she really felt my age was going to be an issue, and the short answer to that is yes. I am 27 and she felt that this could be a fairly major issue in my application. She said that when an applicant is 20 years old, they are looking for potential. i.e. can they mold this person physically, and mentally into the type of person they want. However, at 27 there is less time for this and they will be watching me a lot closer in the selection process. They want a product that has most of the skills they want already developed. 

She went on to show me some selection results from a person who had applied at the age of 28. This person scored well on the aptitude and physical tests. They said he showed a little trouble with agility climbing ropes, but was otherwise in good shape. When it came to the leadership exercises he did well, but in one of the exerciese is turned a little bit passive, and was not in total control of the exercise. For that reason, they did not choose him saying that because of his age, his leadership skills would probably not improve.

This news has me very worried now. I have only one shot at this, if I do not make it through all these selection processes this time around, i will be too old to try again. This does not mean I don't have a chance, but it appears that because of my age, the odds are stacked against me. I really have to market myself to these people in a smart way. I am not going to be the strongest or fittest person there, and I will probably be the oldest. The major card I have is my education, which is probably going to be a lot higher than anyone there. So, I will have to play that up a lot and convince them it is an advantage to take me. 

The situation kind of reminds me of what Gimli said in the Lord of the Rings:
'Certainty of death. Small chance of success......What are we waiting for? '


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## Canuck_25 (9 Nov 2004)

Thats to bad, well i guess you couldnt apply again anyway, because you wouldnt be eligible. I spoke to CF officer recruiters yesterday, started to make me think of other options.


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## enfield (9 Nov 2004)

Hey, Pieman, any word on why they shut down recruiting Commonwealth citizens?


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## Pieman (10 Nov 2004)

> Hey, Pieman, any word on why they shut down recruiting Commonwealth citizens?


I asked about that in my initial interview. She said that the order came down through the system, but the funny thing about it is that the 5 year residence policy was in effect for many years now, they just never enforced it. So she says it is really going to be a wait and see matter as it is not clear if the higher-ups want the policy enforced rigidly or not. So if you are thinking about trying to join, give it some time before you give up.

The second phase of my application is getting a regiment to sponsor me. I have begun visits to different regiments I am interested in. Yesterday I went to the 2 Para company in Colchester for a tour and interview. It was a great experience for me because I got to step on a actual British base for the first time. I walked up to the gate and was greeted by two Para guards both holding SA80 rifles (It is SA80? i forget the exact name) A bit of a shock for me because all of a sudden what i was doing became very real. I told them why i was there and they directed me through the compound where I met up with a Major. What a great man, very friendly and open. I was there with three other officer applicants, all of them British, and all of them about 20 years old. We sat through a small lecture and watched some videos. The best part of the day came next where we got to go to the Officers mess for lunch. 

These guys have it all, they have a nice lunch room and sitting room with servants bringing their food and drink to them and taking it away. Oddly enough all the servants are tall blond 20 year old girls...in fact almost all the suppport staff seem to be young beautiful girls. Anyway, I had a great conversation with several of the Para men there, they seemed to be surprised I came all the way from Canada to join the Brits, but some said it was fairly common. After lunch we went for tea and talked some more. It was a very comfortable atmosphere, and you could tell these men were tight knit and almost like family. It looks like a fantastic place to work.

After lunch, I had my interview with the Major. The first thing that happened was he looked down at my file, and then he looked up and said 'So....You're 27 years old?' 

I have to say my heart sank a little bit because this age issue is proving to be a bigger stumbling block than I would have guessed. He went on to say 'You're age is an issue, this is a young man's game...It is human nature for us to pick the younger man because that is what we want...but your education is profound and your work experience is terrific. So that has the effect of balancing things out.' So I got a spark of hope when he said that.

The conversation continued and he asked me what other regiments i have been to. I told him this was the first one of many that I will visit. He then said that he felt that I would be much better suited in a specialist role simply because there should be a place where   I could uutilizedmy skills. He said that I was like a peg with a shape and I simply have to find the right slot. But no one can tell me what that slot is, I have to decide that and go for it myself.   A young man is like a piece of clay, they can take them and mold them into the shape they want. 

In all, he said that after I visited all the different regiments, and if I came back to him and said 'Para or nothing! This is what I want to be' then he would put me through the selection process. But, unless I showed that determination, he felt there is somthing out ther better suited for me. So he is not saying no, but that I should make a very careful choice.

At this point, I think he is right. I feel that there should be something out there that simply screams to be 'This is your job!' but despite all the research I put into understanding the army I am not sure what that is. I love the idea of being a Para of course, but I suspect there is something out there a little better suited to me.


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## Canuck_25 (10 Nov 2004)

Wow, that post was really terrific. its to bad that they do not make commonwealth applicants eligible anymore. what i plan to do now, is in my second year of uni, do a University transfer. This way i can go to a British UNI, and join the TA while im there. Im hoping that if they see that im in the TA, they might turn a blind eye at the citizenship.


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## Pieman (10 Nov 2004)

> Wow, that post was really terrific. its to bad that they do not make commonwealth applicants eligible anymore. what i plan to do now, is in my second year of uni, do a University transfer. This way i can go to a British UNI, and join the TA while I'm there. I'm hoping that if they see that I'm in the TA, they might turn a blind eye at the citizenship



That is not a bad idea Canuck_25, but if I were you, I would consider joining the Canadian reserves while I was in university. Why not start that process now? If your trying to come to the Brit Army because you think it is 'better' you are coming for the wrong reasons. It is not why I am over here, I have a multitude of other reasons. 

If you do decide to do a university transfer and join the Brit TA, then you will already have some military experience under your belt. In other words you will be a much better candidate by the time you go for officer selection.

One of the other applicants I was with at the Paras was a TA soldier, he had served in Iraq for a short while and was fully trained. He made a very very strong candidate, and if you get that kind of experience under your belt, you will be too.


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## Canuck_25 (10 Nov 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> That is not a bad idea Canuck_25, but if I were you, I would consider joining the Canadian reserves while I was in university. Why not start that process now? If your trying to come to the Brit Army because you think it is 'better' you are coming for the wrong reasons. It is not why I am over here, I have a multitude of other reasons.
> 
> If you do decide to do a university transfer and join the Brit TA, then you will already have some military experience under your belt. In other words you will be a much better candidate by the time you go for officer selection.
> 
> One of the other applicants I was with at the Paras was a TA soldier, he had served in Iraq for a short while and was fully trained. He made a very very strong candidate, and if you get that kind of experience under your belt, you will be too.



 I do not want to join the British Army simply because its "better". 
 I am not ruling out the CF after i spoke with the recruiters, RMC really impressed me. The British army recieved more money than the CF, is far more appreciated by its people and its officer selection proccess is far different. One Person, at my high school went to RMC simply because it was free. He said he didnt care much for the military, he just wanted a good education, which he thought the RMC could well offer. Now, if the CF has officers who simply want a free education, that dosnt impress me. The British army accepts mostly those who have a BS or BA, so no free education.

 I hope you are selected though, best of luck.

 Robert


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## enfield (11 Nov 2004)

I wouldn't sell the CF so short Canuck_25. I too am interested in the oppurtunities available in the British Army, but I've done some time in the Canadian Reserves, worked with Cdn Reg Force, Brits, and a few others, and I think its dangerous to place the Brits on a pedestal and assume the CF is in the gutter, especially with no prior military experience.

Yes, many (most?) RMC cadets are there for the free education. Many (most?) of them will end up in non-combat positions, and if we need to bribe highly qualified people to serve, so what, as long as they do the job. I would say no one, anywhere, goes professional infantry just for the money or benefits. The US military, all branches, all trades, have troops and officers mostly there just for the benefits. If they do their job well, who cares why they're there?
I'm sure the Brits are full of similar candidates. Many Brit soldiers are there because they have few or no other options in their lives. Some would be there for the money, and I suspect they do have some sort of education/benefits reward scheme. You state they mostly recruit officers with degrees, but a fair percentage of their officers have no tertiary education. The Brits do get more money, but they have a retention problem just like the CF, only recently have their small arms reached a standard equivalent to the CF, and there are other issues and problems that are common to all militaries. 

Don't stereotype all soldiers and officers and their motivations with one brush. Try out the CF, the Reserves are a fairly easy option and a good eye-opener.


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## Canuck_25 (11 Nov 2004)

Enfield said:
			
		

> I wouldn't sell the CF so short Canuck_25. I too am interested in the oppurtunities available in the British Army, but I've done some time in the Canadian Reserves, worked with Cdn Reg Force, Brits, and a few others, and I think its dangerous to place the Brits on a pedestal and assume the CF is in the gutter, especially with no prior military experience.
> 
> Yes, many (most?) RMC cadets are there for the free education. Many (most?) of them will end up in non-combat positions, and if we need to bribe highly qualified people to serve, so what, as long as they do the job. I would say no one, anywhere, goes professional infantry just for the money or benefits. The US military, all branches, all trades, have troops and officers mostly there just for the benefits. If they do their job well, who cares why they're there?
> I'm sure the Brits are full of similar candidates. Many Brit soldiers are there because they have few or no other options in their lives. Some would be there for the money, and I suspect they do have some sort of education/benefits reward scheme. You state they mostly recruit officers with degrees, but a fair percentage of their officers have no tertiary education. The Brits do get more money, but they have a retention problem just like the CF, only recently have their small arms reached a standard equivalent to the CF, and there are other issues and problems that are common to all militaries.
> ...



Yes, there are scholarships the British army offer, but they dont come close to paying for 4 years of University. 

  May i ask you Enfield, what university do you attend and what degree you are pursueing?


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## Pieman (13 Nov 2004)

I have been exploring different regiments and corps here in the BA. One of the corps I contacted was the Intelligence branch here, and I asked if I could join being a commonwealth citizen. They wrote back and as I expected the short answer is 'no'. The offical word from the Intelligence branch is:



> There are two key criteria for the high level of security clearance which all members of the Int Corps must have:
> 
> a.    At least 10 years recent UK residence.
> 
> ...



So it is not impossible, but you basically have to be here a long time and become a british national. Thought that some of you might be intersted in that info.


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## enfield (14 Nov 2004)

Canuck_25 said:
			
		

> May i ask you Enfield, what university do you attend and what degree you are pursueing?



UBC in Vancouver, Political Science - a fair chunk of which has been paid for with Militia money, an overseas tour, and education reimbursement.


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## Pieman (19 Nov 2004)

Well, I got some rotten news. I don't know, I seem to be running into problems left right and center in trying to join the Military, it almost feels like some divine power is intervening and keeping me from doing it.

I was speaking to my Army careers adviser this morning and the security beefing up has a possible chance of effecting my application. 

Word came down from the Ministry of Defence that all foreign commonwealth applicants will have to live in the UK for a period of two years before applying. It appears that it dropped from the original 5 year requirement and this will be enforced. So anyone going to apply to the British Forces had better plan on living here a while before you can join. Looks like the days of Commonwealth applicants serving with the Brits is drawing to a close. Special thanks goes out to Osama and his gang of idiots for causing all the security increases in the world.

The question is whether or not this will effect my application, and they are still deciding whether or not commonwealth people who are currently in the system will be allowed to continue with their application. The official word about this is expected in a few weeks.

I am to attend the RCB Briefing at the end of this month. My Army careers adviser feels that if I get selected to procede with my application, then I stand a good chance of being one of those considered to be allowed to continue. In fact, I have to make it through the entire selection process without any hang ups to get in.

Either way, there stands a chance that the order will come through that I cannot procede with my application because of this new requirement, and my dream of serving with the Brits will be over, and all this time, money, and effort I put into this application will be for nothing....If it does come down to that, I guess MOD will have to compensate me as they invited me out here and specified that they wanted me to live here during the application. Otherwise instead of joining the MOD I will be suing them for compensation. Isn't that a nice thought.  :-\ <sigh> Bit of a depressing day.

I have been speaking with a Canadian who used to serve over here, and when he fist came they enlisted him as a NCM for the first 6 months and then put him in Officer training. I believe they did that to make sure he would stick around.  I will be checking that possible option out today, as it does not look good all around right now.


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## Moobus (19 Nov 2004)

Canuck_25 said:
			
		

> Wow, that post was really terrific. its to bad that they do not make commonwealth applicants eligible anymore. what i plan to do now, is in my second year of uni, do a University transfer. This way i can go to a British UNI, and join the TA while im there. Im hoping that if they see that im in the TA, they might turn a blind eye at the citizenship.



Canuck25, transferring to a UK school for a couple years isn't a bad idea at all if nothing else, it settles the two year requirement right there. It'll be painfully expensive, but if you're really set on the British forces... 

There is a better solution than joining the TA as an enlisted man, though: the University Officer Training Corps, which is basically the UK version of the ROTC. It won't pay your tuition, but it does pay better than the TA will. The training is on par with the TA's (I've been told), but actually does a better job of preparing you for the RCB / RMA Sandhurst. I've only been with the unit for a couple months now, but things have been good so far. You can find out more info at www.ulotc.co.uk - they present it as a lot of fun adventure training, but it's far more serious than that.

I'm in much the same situation as you guys, trying to join the UK army (or RM - we'll see ) with no residency time under my belt. I've just put in my application, but I doubt anything will come of it. I might actually stay an extra year just to qualify.

Cheers,
Glenn


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## Pieman (22 Nov 2004)

Well, my situation is deteriorating further. After the announcement regarding currently serving commonwealth citizens being required to take on British citizenship, I contacted my ACA (Army Carrers Adviser) who is handling my file. 

I requested that she bring the attention of my situation to the people who will be making a decision on whether or not current applicants are allowed to procede, or be turfed. Basically, she does not sounds hopeful about the situation and I had to basically beat it into her that it was her responsibility to help me out.

I pointed out that I was invited here, and was assured that everything was OK for me to go through the application process and as long as I did well, I would get into Sandhurst by May. Acting under those terms, I scraped and saved money, bought a plane ticket, went through the process of getting a work permit, flew here, set myself up in a shoddy apartment. Now they are basically planning on telling me to sod off, and too bad I spent all that money, time and effort to come here.They simply don't seem to care at all, and had offered absolutely nothing in terms of compensation.

Anyone else smelling a lawsuit?

Time for me to go to 'battle stations'. I won't go through the rest of this process quietly, as my instincts are telling me they are going to turf me unless I make a fuss. I am gathering all documents related to this, and trying to get in contact with a lawyer as soon as I can. I will be writing letters to the MOD, the MPs here, to let  them know what is going on. 

I am also going to contact the BBC, and various news papers here in the hopes that someone will take an interest in my story. Everthing about the Army seems to be a hot button topic right now, so I have a feeling they might jump on this story.

I go to the two day selection board next week. Really, with the treatment I am getting right now, I think I should return the indifference. 

Maybe while I am running through the obstacle course I will fall off one of the walls I have to climb over and sue them or making it too high. 

Or maybe I will say the while I was sleeping in my bunk, a Major came and touched me in icky places.  
Gawd! At least I still got a sense of humor in this cruddy situation.


This really sucks, I didn't come all this way to get into a below the belt hitting legal battle with the MOD. I came to be a Officer in the Army and serve the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth.


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## Canuck_25 (22 Nov 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> Well, my situation is deteriorating further. After the announcement regarding currently serving commonwealth citizens being required to take on British citizenship, I contacted my ACA (Army Carrers Adviser) who is handling my file.
> 
> I requested that she bring the attention of my situation to the people who will be making a decision on whether or not current applicants are allowed to procede, or be turfed. Basically, she does not sounds hopeful about the situation and I had to basically beat it into her that it was her responsibility to help me out.
> 
> ...



 Good for you. You could represent all of us back here seeking a future career. I must say, it must suck waste money. Well, good luck, and i hope to see on the news.


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## Pieman (23 Nov 2004)

Does anyone know a good way to get in contact with a journalist? I have been looking on BBC webpage, and newspaper webpages but they don't make it easy to contact them with regards to possible news items. Anyone here had to contact the media before? Please PM me.


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## ReadyAyeReady (1 Dec 2004)

Can anyone clarify the 2 years residence in the UK requirement...I've lived in the UK before...for 1 year in 97-98 and for another year in 2002-2003...so thats 2 years...I'm just wondering if you have to live 2 years immediately before joining or if you just have to have lived in the UK for more then 2 years in the past...do you see what I'm getting at?


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## Pieman (2 Dec 2004)

> Can anyone clarify the 2 years residence in the UK requirement...I've lived in the UK before...for 1 year in 97-98 and for another year in 2002-2003...so thats 2 years...I'm just wondering if you have to live 2 years immediately before joining or if you just have to have lived in the UK for more then 2 years in the past...do you see what I'm getting at?


I suspect they want two consecutive years, but really you should check with the the recruiters just to make sure.


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## Pieman (3 Dec 2004)

Well all, I am back in Canada, and I am afraid I had to return home disappointed.

I am all finished here, and my British army application is pretty much over. I gave it my best, but basically I am too old, and despite my best effort for fitness and preparing, it is still not enough. 

What it boils down to is that the British Army is much more particular about the type of person they want, and the kind of skills you should have when you apply. 

In all, I did ok in the selection process, but I ended up sharing the same fate as the older candidate I mentioned in one of me previous posts. They really are not looking to develop your skills at all, but expect you to have those skills at a very high level. If I was younger, then they would have taken me, but because I am old they felt that 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'. Bottom line, they are not willing to help me develop these skills because they got plenty of applicants, so they don't have to.

Anyway, I tried my best. The odds were really stacked against me more than I thought. I did not realise that my age would be such an issue. 

I always see things from a positive perspective, and I can walk away from this situation feeling OK about it.  I know that I did my best, I evaluated the situation over and over again in my head, and really there is not much I could have done different. I knew it was a risk to come over here. A person who takes risks will reap the rewards, but also will reap in disappointment once in a while. 

I got to live in London for a month, and I met a lot of people, see all  the sights, and had a lot of fun. I met a lot of people, and I made some friends.

Most importantly, I did come away really understanding the kind of skills it takes to be an Officer. Because of this experience I really do understand what kind of skills a Officer needs, and I was able to identify areas where I need to develop and improve.  If I want to continue with my CF application, I know where I need to improve myself and I know how to fix it.

Anyway, I guess this is the end of my little adventure. I will keep pulling for my CF application, and drawing from this experience I think I will be a better officer than I ever could have been as a result.

I know that a lot of people at home here were pulling for me, and I do feel a little disappointed that I had to return with bad news. But I honestly did my best. 

If anyone decides they want to go this route, please don't hesitate to contact me as I got lots of tips.


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## mdh (3 Dec 2004)

They said that at 26 that you were too old? That's mind-boggling, but it says more about British society than it does about your capabilities. Sorry to hear about your situation. Good luck over here. Cheers, mh


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## 1feral1 (3 Dec 2004)

Well Pieman, at least you went through with it, and tried, while others will sit back and fantasise about doing it (or worse tell porky-pies about it). Good on ya for giving it a fair go.

There is always Australia. Try www.defencejobs.gov.au and have a look, or also try www.army.gov.au too. Youy won't ahve to worry about that crappy UK weather, here its always decent or wickedly hot (45C in at the School of Infantry in Singleton two days ago).

The only hurdle is getting a resident visa, and they do take of Canadians and other BCW nations for enlistment. Sure there is a security vetting, and thats standard.

Prior service is recognised in most cases from BCW nations.

However, as a serving member of the ADF, you must apply for citizenship within 90 days of being elegible, and if not your services will be terminated. It's a 2 yr wait to apply for citizenship, and you can keep your Canadian one to boot.

I have the best of both worlds and hold dual nationality. You can't go wrong there. 

Good Luck!

Cheers,

Wes


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## Cloud Cover (4 Dec 2004)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> There is always Australia. Try www.defencejobs.gov.au and have a look, or also try www.army.gov.au too. Youy won't ahve to worry about that crappy UK weather, here its always decent or wickedly hot (45C in at the School of Infantry in Singleton two days ago).
> 
> The only hurdle is getting a resident visa, and they do take of Canadians and other BCW nations for enlistment.



There's some damn good advice Pieman. Check it out. Good Luck.


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## Figure11 (4 Dec 2004)

Sorry to hear about your bad news. Maybe in the post 9/11 world things have changed just a little too much for dreams to become reality. Good luck in all your endeavours


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## Spr.Earl (4 Dec 2004)

The U.K. does haver a ager limit on recruiting with in the Army as in the R.E. you are out at the age of 38 if you have not gain rank our unless you get a deferral.
A freind of mine is going through the age thing now,he trying to remuster to Pecker Checker but stay with the R.E.


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## Pieman (4 Dec 2004)

> There is always Australia. Try www.defencejobs.gov.au and have a look, or also try www.army.gov.au too. Youy won't ahve to worry about that crappy UK weather, here its always decent or wickedly hot (45C in at the School of Infantry in Singleton two days ago).


Sizzle. Man that's hot! It is a tempting idea...I don't know, is age a big deal there too?   Maybe I can travel the world getting rejected from various armies.      

Hmm...I am wondering if I did go to Australia, and picked up a hot Ozzie girl and married her, would that get my residence status faster?   ;D
Always thinking.

Also, someone was telling me that there is a division in the South African Army that operates something like the FFL and will take foreign BCW applicants, or used to anyway. Anyone here know anything about this?

I guess I am in the 'what the heck do I do now' phase. I am going to spend some time thinking about what I am going to do now, and try to figure out what my options are. Do I want to sit and wait for my Canadian application to go through, which really I wish it would soon. I want to serve. Or do I want to try something different? Not sure at the moment.


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## Canuck_25 (4 Dec 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> > There is always Australia. Try www.defencejobs.gov.au and have a look, or also try www.army.gov.au too. Youy won't ahve to worry about that crappy UK weather, here its always decent or wickedly hot (45C in at the School of Infantry in Singleton two days ago).
> 
> 
> Sizzle. Man that's hot! It is a tempting idea...I don't know, is age a big deal there too?   Maybe I can travel the world getting rejected from various armies.
> ...



I guess your thinking of mercenaries then? Im not aware of south african division that is multinational. 

Well, i called up the Canadian scottish brigade in Victoria. They are sending me an application. I hope to use the reserves as a stepping stone to RMC

I guess I am in the 'what the heck do I do now' phase. I am going to spend some time thinking about what I am going to do now, and try to figure out what my options are. Do I want to sit and wait for my Canadian application to go through, which really I wish it would soon. I want to serve. Or do I want to try something different? Not sure at the moment.

[Moderator note:  Edited only to provide clarity, i.e. what was a quote and what was a reply - no content was harmed in the making of this edit ...]


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## mdh (6 Dec 2004)

Canuck25,

If you're interested in the CanScotts why not show up at the recruiting office at the Armoury on Bay Street rather than wait for an application via mail?  The office is open this Thursday at 7PM and there is a new recruit course in mid-January. They will be happy to talk to you and start the ball rolling, cheers, mdh


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## Canuck_25 (7 Dec 2004)

mdh said:
			
		

> Canuck25,
> 
> If you're interested in the CanScotts why not show up at the recruiting office at the Armoury on Bay Street rather than wait for an application via mail?   The office is open this Thursday at 7PM and there is a new recruit course in mid-January. They will be happy to talk to you and start the ball rolling, cheers, mdh



 Well, ill give you my reasons.
 1) Im applying for a Infantry Officer position
 2) Im still a student in high school. I am applying for this summer/fall
 3) I cant "stop by" because i live in Port McNeill,  800 km from victoria


  I was told that if i complete my application, when it is sent to me, it can be put on hold. Ive applied to University of Victoria, Thomsan River University and UNBC. Untill i register for one of them, i dont know my destination yet.


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## Meridian (7 Dec 2004)

Interesting notes from an online session with a recruiter (clearly canned responses) on the Brit Army site:


CSgt Gary Harriss has joined this session! 
9:44:33 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss HI 
9:44:35 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss this 
9:44:40 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss To take your officer entry enquiry further, you should now write to the following address.  You must enclose a copy of all your school and university education certificates, your birth certificate and the pages in your passport that show your right to enter and live in the UK.  You must state your current nationality and include your full address:

Overseas Officer Enquiry Desk, Building 165, Trenchard Lines, Upavon, Wiltshire SN9 6BE  United Kingdom

If you appear eligible, the necessary enquiry forms will be forwarded to you in due course.  Please allow 6 weeks from the time that you send the details to the UK to allow for post delays and full assessment by the Ministry of Defence. 
9:44:43 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss To apply you must have a sponsor who is a permanent resident in the UK who will be ready to support your application.

The UK sponsor requirement is for Home Office immigration purposes and ideally should be the name and address of a UK citizen, a person who has permanent residence within the UK and has lived here for some time, or a relative, friend who is living in the UK.  This includes UK and Commonwealth service personnel.

Under normal circumstances the applicant usually resides with a sponsor for the period of selection (approximately six to 10 weeks).

The role of sponsor is purely to take responsibility for and be a point of contact for the applicant.  Accommodation may be in a location separate from the sponsor.  If this option is chosen, the applicant will have to supply and accommodation address to both the sponsor and to the relevant British High Commission or Embassy to support visa applications.  The alternate accommodation can be a youth hostel, guesthouse, Hotel or similar accommodation.

In the event of the sponsor being a serving soldier, there are strict regulations about the use of service accommodation.

The sponsor is usually contacted by the British High Commission or Embassy at which the application has been made.  Some basic information is normally requested.

For a fuller explanation of the requirements, the point of contact is as follows:

Immigration and Nationality Directorate
Blocks C, 6th Floor Whitgift Centre
Wellesley Road
Croydon
CR9 1AT
England

Telephone (General Enquiries) 0870 606 7766 
9:44:44 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss As part of the overseas selection process you will receive a letter asking you to come to the UK to complete the selection, and if successful enlistment.  This letter can be used to support your application for a visa giving you right of entry into the UK.  Please note that to complete the recruit selection process you will require at least 3 months remaining on your visa on the day you present your documents at an Army Careers Office. 
9:44:48 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss To apply for service in the British Army you must have a relative or friend, who is a permanent resident in the UK, who will act as your sponsor.  Do have a UK based sponsor? 
9:44:49 AM  CSgt Gary Harriss To apply for a commission in the British Army you will have to reside in the UK for a period of up to 5 years prior to your application.  This time can vary depending on your personal circumstances.


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## ReadyAyeReady (8 Dec 2004)

Thanks for the update Meridian.

From what I understand the Brits are going through the process of re-thinking their recruitment policy regarding Commonwealth citizens.

I have been in the application process for a while now, and when I first sent in my application (October) I was still eligible...but now I may not be if they change the residence requirements.

On the upswing I have relations in the UK and have lived there before (For 1 year in 97-98 and another year in 02-03)...so that may help me as I can get a sponsorship from them no problem.

Anyway, I'll keep you all updated on my situation as there seem to be alot of changes going on over there and alot of confusion on this side as to the Commonwealth applicant's requirements.

ReadyAyeReady


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## Matt_Fisher (9 Dec 2004)

This is really disapointing news for all Commonwealth subjects wanting to join the British Army.  Hopefully as the global security situation improves the restrictions will become lessened.

I think that perhaps a revival of 'Allied Regiment' ties between reserve units and their sister units in the UK might be able to help get Canadians into the British Army.

I had a friend who served with the Seaforth Highlanders and due to contacts that he'd made with the sister regiment The Highlanders was able to join that regiment, with which he is currently serving.


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## Pieman (9 Dec 2004)

Mat_Fisher, your PM box is full. Could you delete some messages so I can get through? Thanks.


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## noneck (9 Dec 2004)

Matt Fisher-JJ established his relationship after an attachment with 1 Hldrs on Pond Jump West in Wainwright for a month. That smoothed a lot of the road as he was introduced to the Hldrs CO by his Coy Comd. The CO then directed him to the Regimental Secretary in Fort George, who is the mover and shaker as far as easing the overseas recruiting issue. He still had to eastablish a residency period for I believe 6 Months. 

Cheers
Noneck


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## MikeT1984 (11 Dec 2004)

If any of you guys have any questions on British Army selection, feel free to PM, IM, or e-mail me.  I passed selection a couple of months ago and start CMS(R) in January. 

I think that there is alot of scaremongery, as I found selection very easy, it appears selection has changed some what from what some people are suggesting.


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## Pieman (11 Dec 2004)

> I think that there is alot of scaremongery, as I found selection very easy, it appears selection has changed some what from what some people are suggesting.



I went through Officer selection only a few weeks ago for entry into Sandhurst. I did OK through the whole process, but was not picked because I was considered to be too old to develop my skills. If I was 20 like yourself I would have been in, and they even told me this. As a general rule the older you are, the higher quality you must be. There is not any scaremongering going on, but laying out my experience. 

Is CMS(R) a noncommissioned reserves?


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## MikeT1984 (11 Dec 2004)

Pieman said:
			
		

> > I think that there is alot of scaremongery, as I found selection very easy, it appears selection has changed some what from what some people are suggesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Common Military Syllabus (Recruits) - basic NC training.


I met a guy on one of my selections who had 2 years experience in the Royal Marines Reserve, and a degree, and was turned down at Sandhurst, at 24.  I apologise for my generalisation of the thread, as I didn't bother to read the whole thing, jsut the first couple of pages, with people talkign about press ups and such, I didn't have to do any press ups on selection, this is now left until you go to your ATR.


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## Pieman (11 Dec 2004)

> I met a guy on one of my selections who had 2 years experience in the Royal Marines Reserve, and a degree, and was turned down at Sandhurst, at 24.


Wow, that is something. There was also a Royal Marine Reserve guy at my selection board. He was also one of my roommates there and I got to know him pretty good. He was probably the fastest guy I have ever seen. He was super confident working in groups, and had simply outstanding leadership skills. I was nothing like that guy. He got picked, and rightly so. He was probably the strongest candiates there. He will make a great Officer. 

I am quite surprised to hear your friend did not, as he has a very similar background and age. But who knows, there are a lot of variables in the selection process. I saw a lot of really smart and capable people turned away.

They process over 100 applicants a week there. So they can be as picky as they want to be. Out of those 100 or so applicants, I was the oldest person on my selection board, if that tells you anything.


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## MikeT1984 (12 Dec 2004)

I was the oldest on my soldier selection, wasn't really surprised though.


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## Acorn (13 Dec 2004)

Mike,

Welcome to our Canadian world. It's nice to see one of the "green slime" tip up  ;D. You may well run into a few mates of mine. Of course, they're WO2s, so the conversation may be one-sided.  >

Good luck in one of the more active Corps in the British Army. You have loads of opportunity to excel, and a variety of postings that makes me jealous.

Acorn


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## hiv (21 Mar 2005)

Hi All

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I thought I'd update my situation for anyone interested. The education officer finally got back with all my equivalencies for my application and I possess the necessary pre-requisites for a commission. So, now my application is going ahead but I'm not sure how good a chance I stand since I've been informed that they're cutting 11,000 positions. I figure it can't hurt to try regardless. So, I'll continue to wait but not hold my breath. We'll see where this leads.


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## readyfourzero (23 Mar 2005)

mike

I echo Acorns words, welcome to the British Army I hope your stay is a good one and as enjoyable as mine has been!

You have chosen well young Jedi

4-0


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## winchable (24 May 2005)

Anyone out there still contemplating applications to the UK forces?

Mines just been officially started this week so anyone wanting the current word on issues need only ask and I should be able to get your a response within a day right from the mouth of a recruiter in Staffs.


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## Jascar (25 May 2005)

I'm still working on applications for the army and marines. How long did it take to hear back from the marines, Che? How have you found the process so far? And why Lichfield?


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## winchable (26 May 2005)

After a long, long talk with all the recruiters I decided not to officially apply to the Royal Marines, though while I was contemplating them they were always quite helpful (the recruiters here are absolutely amazing if they know you're in country)
I'm actually applying to the army as an officer now, so I haven't heard back from them since filling out the information sheets they gave me and returning them.

The Recruiters here are amazing, the system is designed to pack recruits onto commissioning boards and weekend test batteries and let those things sort them out.
They sent me DVD's and VHS tapes about trades, army life (they made it sound so bloody appealing, which I've never seen) they text me or call me...imagine that, they contact me to see how I'm doing.
Perhaps I have just got a really good recruiter though, so don't anyone book their flights just yet.

Why Lichfield? My godfather lives here so the rent is free for a while anyway, it's near Birmingham but not in an urban setting so it's pleasant to live in and when I need to I can get to the second city in a half hour or so.


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## Rubes (26 May 2005)

Can I ask why you chose Army over RM?  I'm considering joining the RM after high school, was wondering why you decided to switch.  

Also, what's life like in Britain?  I'm not asking you to write me an essay, I just mean is it comparable to life in Canada?

Thanks


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## winchable (27 May 2005)

I eventually chose the army largely because of the opportunity to go to Sandhurst and just in general the army was more in line with what I am (this, after much careful study and I decided that I'm just not interested in being a marine) and what my family over here is involved in.

Having family in particular places here can have a big impact on where you apply, since officer applicants are generally sponsored by a particular regiment if you have family members in that regiment it helps in some small way. 
They'll still only sponsor you if you are suitable and if there are better applicants you're SOL but if your family is well known at the regiment they know your interest is definetly real and not a whim and you might find that they will take a deeper interest in you.
You'll never hear that from a recruiter, never ever ever.
Yes despite 100s of years of history, the Victorian nepotism is still somewhat alive.

England really is just...completely different.
I don't think I could properly articulate how much it is like going to a completely different planet at times.
You really must come experience it as one of the English rather than as a tourist if you want to really appreciate how incredibly foreign England is.
I reccommend getting a work/travel Visa, they're good for 2 years and allow to you to work and travel around England and Europe.
Or if you have a British citizenship like I do, don't worry about any of that and just come over, stay at a hostel or with family and see for yourself.

It can be worth it but it really takes a different mindset to live over here, I think I've already done a little speil (As has Pieman) on what it's like at first on this thread or another one on the same topic.
If you have any questions fire away.


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## Pieman (27 May 2005)

Che,

Awesome you are going Army! What corps/regiments are you going to try and get sponsorship with? When you find out when you are going to the RCB Briefing send me a PM, I can give you some heads up on a few things.  Either way, I imagine with your past experience you will do great there. Ahh...I miss London sometimes, so much to do and see, especially in the spring/summer.

Pieman


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## winchable (27 May 2005)

The Greenjackets of the light division are the ones who I'm talking to about sponsorship.
We've moved past the intial information stage, though there is no commitment yet.
To be quite honest, I'm really taking my British Citizenship out for a spin and seeing what kind of Job it can land me here.
Looking into working at the home office, the national archives, foreign office, etc. etc. as well as opportunities on the continent too to learn some other languages.


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## 30 for 30 (27 May 2005)

England is a great place but, from my experience, the standard of living is considerably lower compared to Canada. A lot of expenses are much higher, as well. I would recommend someone visit for a few months before selling the farm and joining up over there. CF pay is relatively high, as well, with a Pte of three years making over $42.000 annually if I'm not mistaken looking at the latest pay tables. That's more than I make after 4.5 years at my civi job, and I'm supposed to be an Office Manager. Maybe its time to ask for a raise. 

That being said, I would still join up over there, but my understanding is that the chance has been missed, even with my British citizenship. They're really enforcing that multi-year residence requirement now, aren't they? I'm also apparently an old man at 28. When I lived there my Canadian buddy joined the Marines after a month in country, no problem.


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## Rubes (27 May 2005)

Che,
Thanks a lot for the reply.  After high school perhaps I'll spend some time there to get an idea of what it's like.  Thanks again.

RNW, I've actually heard that the multi-year residence requirement has been all but thrown out the window.  Of course this is just heresay, but from what I read it's not difficult to get a waiver for that sort of stuff.  I'm hoping so anyway...


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## winchable (27 May 2005)

The residence requirement is official but inconsistently enforced, I've been told both by the marines, the navy as a whole and the army that they don't care as long as I am British, was Born in Britain and live in Britain.
The consenus I've gotten from the home office, civil servants, army, navy and air force is if they want you and you want in, they will get you...

28 years old is quite old to sell the farm and ship off regardless of pay differences and allegiances.
The ideal age IMHO is between 18-22.

It is expensive to live here, sort of, it all balances out in the end and it really only is about 2-4% more expensive for everyday living expenses (nevermind the license you need for a TV) but the younger you are and the less ties you have in Canada the easier it is to quickly adjust to these differences.

For instance a 30 year old who has been working at a steady career in Canada will find it quite difficult to adjust to the difference in pay and living standards but the 20 year old who hasn't settled into a career and still lives at home will not notice the difference if their first foray into independence is in Britain.

Just my opinion and it's getting to be a more and more weathered and seasoned opinion everyday now.


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## Jascar (31 May 2005)

Did you apply to the army when you were still in Canada or only when you arrived in the UK? If you waited until you arrived there, what sort of things did you need for the application? I've heard it can be faster for commonwealth citizens to wait and apply when they're actually in country, so I'm considering doing that.

Are you dealing solely with the AFCO in London that handles overseas applicants?


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## winchable (3 Jun 2005)

I'm not applying as a citizen of the commonwealth, I'm a British Citizen so I am dealing with the AFCO in Birmingham as it doesn't seem to matter fo us.
I imagine it would be far easier if you applied while in country rather than overseas, the transatlantic mail service is atrocious whereas you can just take the train into London (expensive perhaps) and talk to them face to face and drop off documents.

They wanted two references less than 6 months old, my passport and birth certificate. I'm not sure if there are different requirements if you're applying as a commonwealth citizen. I think if you are applying as a commonwealth ciitzen they may want something to prove that you have no commitments to the Canadian Military, they might still ask me for that I'll know more on Monday, though that has been discussed earlier in the thread.

Sorry I can't be of more help, at first I was like you a commonwealth applicant when I was just talking to them while I was overseas then once I brought in my UK Passport and UK birth certificate they told me not to worry and to go to the closest recruiting center rather than the one in London.


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## SeaRoom (6 Jun 2005)

Jascar,

In June 1996 (so policies may be out of date) I made inquiries about enrolling as a officer in the British army with the office in London (can't remember if it was called AFCO or not, maybe Army Liason Office, but they did deal with oversea applicants.) I was told that even though I was a British citizen (dual) there was a residence requirement of 10 years for officers applicants. But, if I enlisted in the ranks on an "O-Type" special engagement (no binding contract essentially), and did six months service in the ranks, they would waiver the 10 year requirement. 

In September I was asked to come to London for an interview. I arrived in London in mid September, had my interview, was told that I would go the Pre-RCB (Pre-Regular Commissioning Board) in one weeks time, and would begin basic recruit training in two weeks in Winchester. So I threw away my return plane ticket, and headed to to the Pre-RCB, and then the Army Training Regiment for Basic.

After I did Basic, I attended the POD (Potential Officer Development) course, mandatory for all unskilled (no previous officer experience) overseas officer applicants. The course is designed for ranks who have been selected to challenge the RCB, but also helps beak in overseas persons to British and British Army culture. It's actually an amazing course - great opportunities and quite challenging. In addition to course mates from the ranks of the British Army, there were guys from South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Rep of Ireland. as long as you had Commonwealth citizenship (not necessarily British), you could join on the special engagement like myself.

After the course your six months are up, and you can challenge the full RCB. Be prepared for a very different culture, especially evident in the army. Officers drink gin and watch rugby, men drink beer and watch soccer - that sort of thing. In the end, my heart wasn't really in it and I did make a great effort at the full RCB. I just didn't feel the same way about serving the UK as I did about serving Canada. It kind of surprised me. This possibility did not occure to me previous to applying. I was encourage to retry the Board in six months (continued special engagement - non-binding), spending my time in the holding platoon or carrying on with further soldier training for six months. I opted to return to Canada, and join the CF.

This is all pre-9/11, so things may have change, but the office in London will certainly take care of you. If you get a call for a interview, be ready for a long stay!!


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## SeaRoom (6 Jun 2005)

That should be "...*didn't* make a great effort at the RCB..." Always forget the " *'t* ."


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## Jascar (7 Jun 2005)

In the ranks now there's only a small window where you can get out of the 4 year contract. I don't know what it is in the army, but in the marines it's any time after the fourth week until the end of basic you're allowed out. I'm amazed that you were allowed out so easily back then, though it sounds like everything worked out well for you in the end.

I think I'm just going to wait and apply when I get over there. I've heard from several people that it's faster and they're much more helpful when you're in country.


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## Northern Touch (7 Jun 2005)

Curious, most of this thread deals with the officer side of things.  Is anybody up to speed with how these changes would affect someone trying to apply as an NCM?  Such as sponsors in country, prior service in commonwealth countries, and time in country before joining?


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## winchable (7 Jun 2005)

Re: NCM Applications, I can help you out wrt to the Marines as I looked into both routes.

They can only start applications once you are in the country, you must provide a letter from the residence where you are staying to prove you are actually reisding in the UK (call them sponsors if you will)
Two letters of reference no older than 6 months, from people who have known you for 2 years or more.

They didn't make any mention of time in the country, though I would personally reccomend you don't just jump into the Marines when you get here, take two weeks get used to the geography, place names, customs etc. That's an optional suggestion from me, not an official one though. It might not be the same as joining the French Legion when it comes to the culture shock but it's worlds apart for most people I've talked to who have immigrated or emigrated.

Prior service might help you in that you will readily adjust to military life style but I can't see them transferring your rank over or speeding up the process, they have mountains of qualified applicants already.


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## Jascar (7 Jun 2005)

Che said:
			
		

> They can only start applications once you are in the country



Really? Good to know, I am applying to the marines. I'll I've got from them so far is a letter asking to contact them at a number that I can never get through to so I'm a little in the dark about the application process.

As for the army NCM's, you can fill out an appliacation and mail it to them while you're still in your home country, though they make it clear that they don't really have time for you since they get boat loads of applications (25,000 per year from commonwealth citizens alone!) You do need a sponsor in country, a certificate stating that you've ended service with your country's military if it applies, 2 letters of reference, an eye prescription and medical questionnaire filled out by doctors, a police record check, a passport valid for at least 4 years (tough with Canada's 5 year passports).......am I forgetting anything? The time in country requirement is still very unclear, but it sounds like it can be easy to get around for NCM applicants.


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## Infanteer (7 Jun 2005)

Jascar said:
			
		

> Good to know, I am applying to the marines.



It's *M*arines - just trying to save you some pain down the road....


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## winchable (8 Jun 2005)

> Really? Good to know, I am applying to the marines. I'll I've got from them so far is a letter asking to contact them at a number that I can never get through to so I'm a little in the dark about the application process.



I can be more useful with any queries you have about the Marines, as I first queried them as a commonwealth citizen looking at an NCM slot.
The only thing I could tell you wrt to the number you're calling is remember that, depending on where you live, we could be up to 12 hours ahead of you (4 if you're on the East Coast and 12 if you're on the West) so if you're calling after you get off work or something you might try doing it before work at 5AM or so.
I'm assuming you considered that, but just a thought.
Also if you're problem is with the area codes or international dialing prefix try dialling the operator and giving her the number as you've got it, they just changed dialling prefixes again so it's possible that's your problem.
Forgetting all of that, the number I have dialled in the UK is 08456 07 55 55 give that to the operator and see if she can help your sort out dialling prefixes, they'll send you on the greater london careers office and you'll talk to a guy there who will send a big package, then go from there.


Army stuff I probably wont be much help with because I'm not applying as a commonwealth citizen.


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## Jascar (10 Jun 2005)

I had thought of the time difference, and I did dial the 011 prefix, but only 1 in 20 calls gets through and those always ring busy.

Why did you apply to the Marines as a Commonwealth rather than a British citizen? How are things going with the Greenjackets? I've heard they have more Commonwealth citizens compared to other regiments, any truth to that?


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## winchable (10 Jun 2005)

I enquired to the Marines as a commonwealth applicant because at the time I was in Canada and they said it didn't make much difference if I was British or Commonwealth as long as I was in the right shape.

The greenjackets do supposedly have a number of Canadians in their rank and file and this was briefly mentioned to me, I've got a familiarisation visit to get to yet as well as a few meet and greets. It's an odd system for choosing officer candidates here, it definetly gives off a "way of life" vibe as opposed to "9-5 job" feel. Hard to explain.


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## cadettrooper (2 Apr 2006)

I was wonder if and how a canadian Citizen could join the British Army (IE...Brit Para).


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## 1feral1 (3 Apr 2006)

Currently in the unit I am with we have a selection of Kiwis, Pommy bastards, and two Cdns. All the rest are convict stock   We are even both in the same SQN. Yes, and both from western Canada to boot.

Just remember for those who seems to think there is some romantic or cool twist to enlisting in a foreign military force. There is not, and if you think so, and wanna live the fantasy, well thats short lived very bloody quick. You'll have tears as big has horse turds running down your baby faces for sure (thats for the fantisizers)

It aint for everyone, and its no picnic, believe me. Leaving family, friends and saying good-bye to all was truly the most difficult things I have ever done, and after going on 12 yrs, it still haunts me, and honestly bothers me from time to time. I was on the other side of the world and not even present when my mother died, and I have missed countless special occasions from those close to me.

Its not as you are moving close by, its 20,000km, and its a new life commitment, which includes the country you have now adopted as taking precidence over anything and everything else. Thats how it is, and thats what one does, although I never EVER forget my roots for a second. It means taking another citizenship out too. Not for mummies boys for a hearbeat!

For those crazy or stupid enough to do it for real, fill your boots.

As for me, was I crazy? Absof***inglutley! would I change anything? Yes, I would have come here at 21 instead of 35!

Personally, I have think reached an apex in my career right now ( I am 46 yrs old), and I have never been more busy or had such intense invlovment in whats going on for me in the upcoming demanding months ahead.

;D

Regards,

Wes


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## winchable (3 Apr 2006)

I'll agree with everything Wes said,

If you read back in the thread you can get a sense for my own odyssey, I learned a few things but one thing I'd like to add on top of Wes' excellent advice is:

If you want to get an education, get one before you go!!! The biggest reason I've come back is to finish my degree, I still plan to return without a doubt as it's what I really want to do, and a 2 year pause to finish my undergraduate is small compared to the 20+ year career I hope to enjoy in the military.
Not sure if that sounds like you at all, but it was definitely me, I felt like I'd left something big unfinished (2 years done, 2 or 3 to go now) and to a certain extent I felt like a quitter for leaving it that way, a quitter I am not.
Also, having a degree in a field you like, makes it a tiny bit easier to get work in a job you like while you're applying (which could take a while) rather than cleaning the washroom in a pub for a year.

In short, prepare everything perfectly before you go, physically I was fit enough, I had a good job to take up time from application to enrollment, I had British Citizenship, more family there than I do in Canada, I was mentally prepared to leave my family and friends behind, I had zeroed in on precisely which branch of the military I wanted to join (after many, many changes), I had researched all the occpations, met with dozens recruiters, had a familiarisation visit, but as I said, I was almost entirely preoccupied with not having that damn degree I wanted and that hung over my head every day I woke up as much as I wanted to be in England doing what I was doing.

Good luck!


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## cobbler (3 Apr 2006)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Currently in the unit I am with we have a selection of Kiwis, Pommy bastards, and two Cdns. All the rest are convict stock   We are even both in the same SQN. Yes, and both from western Canada to boot.
> 
> Just remember for those who seems to think there is some romantic or cool twist to enlisting in a foreign military force. There is not, and if you think so, and wanna live the fantasy, well thats short lived very bloody quick. You'll have tears as big has horse turds running down your baby faces for sure (thats for the fantisizers)
> 
> ...



I must say a big thank you Wes.

It's great to know we have such dedicated people serving in the Australian Army. I'm sure it was difficult, especially to say goodbye to and miss out on so much for a country you weren't born in, but it is truly appreciated. Thank god there are blokes like you who are willing to do it.


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