# CF experience relevant to RCMP, civ policing? (merged)



## The_Falcon

I was not sure if I should post this in the RCMP section or just the National Security part but I will put it here some can feel free to move if it needs to be. 

First I am not a police officer (yet   ), but I did get to the interview stage for the Toronto Police Auxillary, which is was a scaled down version of the real thing (the ECI portion), my program co-ordinator at my school was a D/Sgt in the Toronto Police Recruiting unit, and several other instructors were/are involved in training/recruitment with Toronto Police (I am not going to post there names here, but if you really want to know and have a valid reason for knowing you can PM me).   So this info is from my experiences from attending LFI/ECI mentoring, my aux app, conversations I have had with my profs and stuff available from the websites of police services.

The biggest thing that will pass or fail you for most services is the interview.   Most services (especially in Ontario were the majority of services follow the OACP Constable Selection Process) are moving towards or have moved towards behavioral/competency based interviews.   They are not easy, and require preparation on your part (note: if the service you are applying to offers mentoring sessions for any component of their recruitment process, I strongly encourage you to attend one).   I talked about what I was informed of at an ECI mentoring WRT to Mil experience/life experience here http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30943.15.html



> "Life Experience" is just that, you have gone out and done something other than sit in a classroom rotting you brain and going bankrupt.   They (At least in Toronto) don't care were that experience comes from, as I already pointed out.   I know I am not a cop, but my intstuctors at school were/are, and all of them were/are involved somehow in recruiting/training.   This info is straight from them.   heck they even told us, if we feel ready to apply there is no need to finish the program,   granted only like 4-6 people in my class of 60 were under 21, so thats probably why were told that.
> 
> As for the military angle, when I went to an ECI/LFI mentoring session run by Toronto, the recruiter described interviewing a guy who spent a little over in a decade in the regs as an Engineer, and immedidately after him a woman who had run a catering company for about the same length of time.   While both people had very different backgrounds, and different stories about dealing with stress/pressure/self control etc.   It was thier abilities to articulate those experiences and relate them back to the questions posed at them by the recruiters, that got them the job, not what they had done.   Thats what they are looking for, the ability to relate events in your life to a list of competencies.   The more things you have done in your life the easier it is, to do that.



My profs explained to me, the reason why military members tend to fair better than the average joe in getting on the services is because they have seen and done more things (for the most part), it not like the "old" days were being ex-army was an automatic in.

Which leads to these FAQ and selection criteria (including lateral hire info where available, for those who were thinking of going from MP to civy cop) from a number of services.   "Military service is neither an advantage or disadvantage"

York Regional Police
http://www.police.york.on.ca/newrecruiting/newerframe/faq.htm

Peel Regional Police
http://www.peelpolice.on.ca/recruiting/faq.html#military

Hamilton Police Service
http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/Navantis.CMS.HPS/templates/FAQDetail.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fHPS%2fFAQ%2fRecruitment%2fSworn%2fRecruitmentSwornFAQDetails%2ehtm&NRNODEGUID=%7bE0C25D57-D73C-4DCB-BCAD-FF8F0E7DC16C%7d&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#14

http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/Careers/Sworn/RecruitSwornOutofProvinceLateralTransfer.htm

Vancouver Police Service
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/police/recruiting/currentmember.htm

Edmonton Police Service (note: they specifically mention MPs cannot make lateral transfers)
http://www.joineps.ca/application/experienced/criteria/

Calgary Police Service (note: they specifically mention MPs cannot make lateral transfers)
http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/police/recruiting/html/experienced_officer.htm

Also a tip my program co-ordinator mentioned was get know to some serving/retired officers (in a good way that is ) who would be able to write letters of reference for you.

P.S. most large police services have recruiters you can contact.   So if you have questions regarding mil service and whether or not they would allow a lateral transfer if you were an MP contact them directly, as not every services website provides info regarding mil/MP experience.


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## Whit3

Will Military Expierience Up The Chances For Police Recruiting?  

I was just looking at a few applications for calgary police and basically what it said that is, military expierience will not make it easier nor an exception over regular joes that apply. I find this kind of hard to believe knowing that course training in the military that I've went through anyway would make me a better team leader and have me ready for Police Academy in much more ways than John Bloggans that just graduated High School.


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## paracowboy

Whit3 said:
			
		

> Will Military Expierience Up The Chances For Police Recruiting?


Does in Edmonton. Leadership courses help with the RCMP. At least as recently as '04, when I was doing research to apply.


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## Bobbyoreo

Was told that by RCMP and City of Wpg that military experience does help....although its not helpping me get in!!!lol


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## noneck

Military service gives you many examples of life experience to bring forward during the interview process. Things such as teamwork, leadership, self discipline, initiative, motivation and all the other buzz words. 

Your PER's should also be forwarded with your applications, as most Police Departments also have an annual evaluation report and will be able to draw some comparisons from them.

The above being said, it will also depend on the individual who handles your recruiting file. If he or she has military service they will be able to relate to your service and experience. If they don't have any service then you will have to work harder to civilianize your experience I.E instead of being a Sgt Section Commander in charge of an infantry section, you could change it to Leader of an 8-10 person team  responsible  to upper management for meeting tasks on time and within the framework and direction of the company's vision.....yeah bullshit I know, but some folks just don't get it!

On a personal note, I firmly believe that it's the skill sets and experience that I developed as a young soldier which make me successfull as a LEO today. I find that most former soldiers entering the law enforcement field today have two attributes that you can't teach but that are developed , those being common sense and life experience.


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## pbi

Noneck is spot on. IMHO all employers are realizing, more and more, that technical skills can be taught: what they really need in employees is traits such as reliability, intelligence, initiative, ability to work as part of a team, and to understand and follow intent without micro-supervision. Military people (especially NCOs and officers) usually have these traits in spades. Many (especially younger) people out there today simply don't have these things. Most employers would kill for a good Inf MCpl, if they understood what that is.

Agree fully on the resume advice: don't use military terminology that nobody will understand. Instead, focus on those desireable traits, and translate your military experience into "civilianese". An excellent book for this (if you can find it...) is a US publication called "Does Your Resume Wear Combat Boots?" written by a former ComdSgtMaj of the US Army.

Cheers


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## Bobbyoreo

Good point about changing military terms on your resume to civy traits. I had one person sit and ask me over and over again what different things mean't. Also a good point to include your PER with your resume or at least bring it to the interview.


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## CDNBlackhawk

I have been told it helps, But I guess i am going to have to wait and see when i actually start applying for the POPO in a 1 year and a half


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## bick

Military definately helps.  During my interview, all my examples were from the army and I passed with flying colors.  Having said that, ANY life experience is going to help you be a cop.  The one thing to be careful about is, try to show your initiative and intelligence.  There are still lots of people in the country who think members of the CF are dumb and just do what they are told.  We who have served know better, but you have to focus the "i" and "i".

My 2 cents.

Jay


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## len173

I think it more what you make of your service. No police agency is going to look at your resume and see military service and say, oh he/she was in the military, short list him/her. Police agencies want life experience. I know a guy in the RCMP, they liked him because he was a manager at a convenience store, no military service. Many civilian jobs can give an advantage just like they military. That being said, someone with service will quite likely have confidence, especially in an interview, and odds are displayed responsibility and accountability in their job, which they would obviously like. You would also have experiences that most people in civilian world wouldn't have the opportunity to get, and police agencies often like that, and to see what makes you unique, what talents you have. Any time you have experiences that are unique that obviously will translate to good "life experience" Police agencies will often have on a FAQ or something that military experience does not make you a better or worse candidate that anyone else, simply because they don't want to and can't and shouldn't say yeah, he was in service so hes better than Joe Blow...whos to say it wont turn out that joe blow has traveled all over the world and speaks 4 languages yah know? You can't say your more qualified that anyone else, because its totally based on the individual.


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## paracowboy

len173 said:
			
		

> I think it more what you make of your service.


see, now, here's the thing: a few posters have stated what they* know * based on personal experience. You jump in with conjecture apparently based on nothing, while contradicting the former.


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## pbi

paracowboy said:
			
		

> see, now, here's the thing: a few posters have stated what they* know * based on personal experience. You jump in with conjecture apparently based on nothing, while contradicting the former.



Well...he started out by saying "I think...". Isn't that like saying "IMHO", or " I believe that...." ?

If most police forces really understood the military, I bet they would open a recruiting det outside every base. But, like most organizations today, from what I have seen they are probably full of people who never served in the CF and don't know much about it. In my (limited) dealings with various police services around the country as an ops planner, I have been amazed by how little knowledge and understanding of the military existed. I think that after OP GRIZZLY it may be getting better with the RCMP, but I'm still not surprised that people say that they "know" their local PS would not favour a military applicant. Why would they?

Cheers


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## paracowboy

pbi said:
			
		

> Well...he started out by saying "I think...". Isn't that like saying "IMHO", or " I believe that...." ?


exactly the same thing. So why do any of the above, when there is definitive evidence to the contrary? If one has concrete evidence that previous posts are incorrect, that would be entirely different, wouldn't it? So, rather than see him get flamed, I offered some guidance. I'm *crazy* like that. 



> If most police forces really understood the military, I bet they would open a recruiting det outside every base.


 like the EPS, who have advertised for recruits in newspapers in both Edmonton Garrison and Petawawa? (Yeah, Pet. If my re-badge hadn't gone through, I was taking that route to get my wife home.) Or like Peel-Regional (the unofficial 5th RCR Battalion), and uses the Old Boy's Network to recruit? Or the Calgary Police Service, who have flyers put up in the Garrison gym here, in Edmonton?


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## Michael Dorosh

The Calgary Police are, according to at least on constable I have breakfast with once a month, desperate for new recruits, so advertising in gyms may not be SOP when times are better.  Also worthy of note is the connection with the military - our current CO was recently a constable, and other members of our officers mess in recent years have been CPS. CPS recruits drill at our armoury on occasion and graduation parades are staged here. The latter ensures they are aware we exist, as to how much they "know" about us, the former suggests they are not completely ignorant to what we do.


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## Red 6

Ya'll make some good points about having military experience and getting into law enforcement. It's important to document your military experience in ways that a civilian HR manager will understand. When I first left active duty, I tried to get a job as a meter reader for our local electric utility. When I didn't get the job, I thought, "You have got to be kidding!" I spent about six or seven months in the job search and began to think my military service had no connection to the outside world. I applied with our local PD, mostly out of economic necessity. I almost couldn't believe it when I actually got hired. The hurdle is getting your foot in the door. Once you make it through the POPAT, all the assessment centers, etc, it's worth it if law enforcement is what you want to do.

After you get hired, you can leverage your military experience into expanding your duties and helping your department. I helped set up the patrol rifle program and am an armorer based, to a great extent, on my military experience. The attached picture of me at the range is just for fun...

PS- That vehicle in the back ground is a trash truck. Our range is on land right next to the county dump.


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## noneck

Right now it's an applicants market. There is just not enough qualified warm bodies out there.

There was a scathing article on the RCMP in MacLeans a few months back that highlighted the recruiting shortfall. Just last night there was a feature on the BCTV  news about 100 + senior members retiring from the VPD thats almost 10% of their strength and most of their senior patrol officers and specialized investigators.

I would hazard a guess that this is a nationwide problem. PARACOWBOY mentioned that EPS was recruiting at the Garrison in Edmonton and in Pet, I'll go one further....London England! My buddy went to one of thier recruiting info sessions in London (Even though it was mainly aimed toward serving British Police Officers) as he was just getting out of the Marines at the time. This is interesting as the last big influx of British police officers to Canada was in the late 60's early 70's...the cycle repeats itself.

If anyone on the board has every contemplated law enforcement as a career now is the time to apply! Don't limit yourself to one agency, apply to a bunch and when you get to the middle stages of the process the departments will be competing to hire you.

Noneck


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## paracowboy

oh yeah! And as it was explained to me: any form of civic service stuff goes a long way to looking good on your application. On top of the physical and educational stuff, get involved in the community. 

Even if you don't get picked up, at least you did something good for your fellow citizens.


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## noneck

Most definitely "Unpaid volunteer' service carries a lot of weight. Even more so if it's in a leadership or mentoring roll with youth. It DOESN'T need to be in a community police office, victim service organization  or crime watch type of position.

When I was applying the first time in 1994 I had the advise of a good friend who told me about the four minimum pillars to a successfull application;

1.Background- Clean with positive life experience.
2.Education- Some (at least 30-60 credits) to show a demonstrated ability to complete a course of academic study. Some police departments accept military experience in lieu of post secondary, Delta PD comes to mind.
3.Community service- Explained above
4.Health- Both physical and medical

Anything over and above this makes you more of a competitive applicant, things such as a foreign language, knowledge of different cultures, specialized training (Everything from a locksmith to an accountant).  

For those folks on this forum who are really interested in a career as an LEO there is a great reference site with information and threads for applicants. It's the Blueline.ca forum and its best described as to the Canadian police world what army.ca is to the CF world.
http://www.blueline.ca/forum/?PHPSESSID=cb10857aeba00e73adff062eabbc69ae 

Cheers
Noneck


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## len173

> see, now, here's the thing: a few posters have stated what they know based on personal experience. You jump in with conjecture apparently based on nothing, while contradicting the former.



I do not base this on nothing. Far from it. I base it on several sessions i had with cst.'s and commissioned officers. ranging from inspector to superintendant in charge of the every detachment in North District.(Northern BC). These sessions were all simply question and answer periods where you get to pick the brains of senior officers and members to see what their opinions are on how to get in adn anything else you want to know about the RCMP.  And most of all i base it on a classroom lecture i atteneded at the RCMP youth academy three months ago. This lecture was given by the man in charge of recruiting for north district. The lecture was in short. "this is what were looking for in a candidiate. this is what you should do". I have probably done more research on this subject than most people out there. So i base this on far from nothing, that being said, I am far from an expert, the only people who know exactly what they want are the recruiters. But i am not some moron who just considers himself an authority on everything. I posted because i know a thing or two about it. I did not want to say THIS IS HOW IT IS PEOPLE. because with something like this it is impossible to say that. I apologize for not stating this is where i got my info eariler, my bad. there you have it, haha.


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## zipperhead_cop

First off, is it my computer, or is the poll question screwed up?  I have both options as "99".  I assume they were supposed to be yes or no.  My vote would be "yes" BTW.  
It surprises me that anyone was told that their military experience would not help them.  Perhaps whomever the query was posed to thought it meant "will this guarantee me a job" and the short answer there is nothing does.  
Here in Windsor, the DND closed the old garrison, and built a new training facility in the west end.  Our Department jumped on the band wagon, and they now have a joint training facility.  Pretty decent set up for all parties concerned.  So the military and police have quite a bit of contact.  Here is a bit of UFI if anyone is interested :
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=247

As a generality, you need a good resume and life experience to get an interview.  The interview is the most critical part of the process, since the written and physical testing is more or less a pass/fail situation.  Having the benefit of being from the military can help you in the interview IMO since you end up being afforded opportunities to exercise leadership and problem solving while in (already mentioned I think).  If you pass the interview(s) then it comes down to who is the most competitive.  That is where your community service/volunteer work comes in.  Since upon hiring you the city will be paying you to serve the community, it would be nice to see how you have done that on your own.  
I don't believe having military experience could ever hurt your chances.


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## paracowboy

len173 said:
			
		

> I base it on several sessions i had with cst.'s and commissioned officers. ranging from inspector to superintendant in charge of the every detachment in North District.(Northern BC). These sessions were all simply question and answer periods where you get to pick the brains of senior officers and members to see what their opinions are on how to get in adn anything else you want to know about the RCMP.  And most of all i base it on a classroom lecture i atteneded at the RCMP youth academy three months ago. This lecture was given by the man in charge of recruiting for north district. The lecture was in short. "this is what were looking for in a candidiate. this is what you should do".


AAAAARRRGGHHHHH! Then state that in the first post! I was seeing flames from everywhere coming down on what I was hoping would be (and has turned out to be) a very informative thread.

My bad, too, but I'm still gonna blame you. (MCpls are never wrong.)


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## zipperhead_cop

Para, did you notice the poll?  Both options are "99", unless the problem is with my computer.


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## paracowboy

I changed the poll to "Yes", "No", "I don't know" - albeit with some humour, and I clicked the wrong thingie so there's an extra option that nobody should use (but some smartasses will anyway, which isn't too bad, really, because it'll keep them from messing with the real options).


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## len173

> (MCpls are never wrong.)



hahaha, so I've heard. Lesson learned, don't argue with a MCpl.


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## len173

It is a bit interesting that Certain canadian police agencies state on their websites that military experience does not make you more or less qualified, but some American forces ( i believe the NYPD for one..i was on their website and saw this) accept certain amounts of service with a honorable discharge instead of University or College credits. I imagine you'd be a damn good candidate if you had a degree and service. But interesting difference in the way things are done.


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## Red 6

Veterans' preference is by no means universal in the US. If you're a veteran with expeditionary/combat service or a service connected disability and you apply for federal civil service, then you are eligible for 5 or 10 additional points. But state, county and municipal agencies are all over the place. I think it boils down (as mentioned above) to how well you package your experience on your application.


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## zipperhead_cop

len173 said:
			
		

> It is a bit interesting that Certain canadian police agencies state on their websites that military experience does not make you more or less qualified



I would be very interested to see a link to any or all of those sites.


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## len173

> I would be very interested to see a link to any or all of those sites.



I'll try and hunt it down for you. It was just a day or two ago i was on a website reading the FAQ and that question came up. I just gotta remember which agency it was, i was on a bunch.


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## len173

Peel Regional Police. FAQ

https://erecruit.peelpolice.on.ca/psp/ps/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/e/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.peelpolice.on.ca%2funiformrecruiting%2ffaq.html


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## paracowboy

len173 said:
			
		

> Peel Regional Police.


5 RCR  ;D


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## zipperhead_cop

len173 said:
			
		

> Peel Regional Police. FAQ
> 
> https://erecruit.peelpolice.on.ca/psp/ps/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/e/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.peelpolice.on.ca%2funiformrecruiting%2ffaq.html



From that site:

*Will my experience in the Military help? 

Each applicant is viewed individually. Military service is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage.*

IMO they are just trying to be neutral.  Probably because of the 5 RCR jokes, they threw that out there just as a disclaimer, so some winy puke can't bleat about not getting hired because he/she didn't have military service.  I still think on average the army guys will do better in the interview, though.  More so if they have a leadership course under their belt.


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## Michael OLeary

Perhaps the original question should have been:

_"All other aspects being equal, would military service help with a police application?"_

Followed by:

_"Can anyone state from personal experience what kinds of military experience were found to be helpful in police applications?"_


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## canadianblue

From what I've been told the military really doesn't give you anymore of an advantage or disadvantage for law enforcement, it is just a job. Personally I found that my previous job probably gave me more experience that would help me in any career in LE. I'm thinking of joining a police service once I'm done my contract, and I think that doing volunteer work as well as post secondary would look better on an application then just military service.


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## The_Falcon

I posted this http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32733.0.html a while ago, and I have no new info other than I applied and have been deffered, the info still remains the same, the military allows you the opportunity to experience a broad range of life experiences, it still up to YOU, to relay that info to the recruiters during your interview if you are granted one.


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## noneck

paracowboy said:
			
		

> see, now, here's the thing: a few posters have stated what they* know * based on personal experience. You jump in with conjecture apparently based on nothing, while contradicting the former.



Future Trooper I defer to PARACOWBOY  by quoting him above. Several former CF members have spoken about their personal experiences, all of which completely negate your last post!


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## canadianblue

I really don't see how what I'm doing right now will really help out my chances in the future with applying to any police service, my options if anything are probably more limited by being in the military. I think that my last job working at Safeway will probably be more of a benefit to me if applying to a police service. With any post secondary as well, if I want to do any evening classes I won't get many options if I'm posted in Petawawa which is more of a probability then anything. All in all if I had to do it all again I would have gone to college, upgrade my marks and done some time in the reserves.


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## The_Falcon

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> I really don't see how what I'm doing right now will really help out my chances in the future with applying to any police service, my options if anything are probably more limited by being in the military. I think that my last job working at Safeway will probably be more of a benefit to me if applying to a police service. With any post secondary as well, if I want to do any evening classes I won't get many options if I'm posted in Petawawa which is more of a probability then anything. All in all if I had to do it all again I would have gone to college, upgrade my marks and done some time in the reserves.



How are your options limited? How would Safeway be better? You can get plenty of (life) experience in the military, which is what recruiters are looking for, and that does not always equate to post-secondary. Granted there are plenty of folks who become Police Officers with no military background, and that is fine too, but the key to remember it is up to YOU to make the most of your experiences, and relate them to the recruiters/interviewers if and when that time comes for you.  As well when it comes to the competency interviews, it is not at all necessary to have some grand elaborate story for each competency.  Simple stories can and do suffice as long as you give them the info they need.  So suck it up, quit your moaning and bitching, and make the most of your situation.  Go over the competencies that the service your interested in uses, try and memorize them, so when you do something or involved in something that you believe fits the competency (and remember these can be small incidents), make a note of it somewhere with the date (very important cause you can only use events that have taken place fairly recently [2 years] in most cases), the particulars and who else was involved (recruiters tend to prefer incidents that can be verified by third parties).


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## paracowboy

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> my options if anything are probably more limited by being in the military...All in all if I had to do it all again I would have gone to college, upgrade my marks and done some time in the reserves.


so get out.


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## Red 6

I retired from the US Army (22 years- 16 active, 6 reserve) and I've been a police officer for almost 10 years. My agency is a progressive, community oriented municipal department. if you don't think service in the armed forces is beneficial, you haven't widened out your thought process. Here are just a few examples:

1) problem solving (bread and butter for law enforcement officers)- In the military service, you have to think creatively to get missions accomplished. You have to be flexible, an independent thinker, but be able to work in a team setting to get results on a time sensititve basis.

2) dependability - As a Soldier, Airman, etc, you're supposed to be at your appointed place of duty on time, in the right uniform and ready to do your job. You're expected to do your job, even if nobody is standing right over your shoulder. Integrity, honor and loyalty mean something in the military.

3) cultural awareness/diversity - In the service, you work with people from all over the country, and around the world. You learn to relate to people from all racial backgrounds, socioeconomic groups, and different political viewpoints. You learn from day 1 that the color of your skin isn't important, but how you do your job. 

These are just a very few isolated examples. If you look on almost any job posting for a police officer, I bet you'll find words very similar to what I've written above. I could go on and on. I was an FTO for several years and there was a distinct difference between veterans and people with no military background. Veterans in general know how to take *** chewings (in cop talk, "Daily Observation Reports") They are more adaptive thinkers and generally more mature than other people their age who come from the civilian work force. If you think, "All I do is hump a rucksack and go to the field," open up your perspective.

I was a cavalry scout before I went into law enforcement. Since I began in my current career, I'n become a firearms instructor, rifle armorer and ops support officer, all based on my military experience. Here's a picture of me at the range in May, having more fun than one guy should be allowed to.


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## canadianblue

> my options if anything are probably more limited by being in the military...All in all if I had to do it all again I would have gone to college, upgrade my marks and done some time in the reserves.
> 
> so get out.



Not really much of an option, since I doubt any police service wants to see a dishonurable discharge on my record. I was looking forward to a career in the military after BMQ, but then just started to think that being treated like a ten year old for the next ten years of my life. I'm just going to make the best of my time in, and then get out once my contract is done.


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## George Wallace

So what you are saying in fact is not that Military Experience could have helped your chances of a Policing Career, but your own immaturity while in the Military has damaged your chances of such a career.


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## canadianblue

Immaturity, alot of people end up regretting joining the forces, especially when some NCO's can only seem to talk about the good old days when they beat up recruits. No thanks, after seeing the type of BS that goes on, I'm doing the contract in full, hoping to get out once I'm done. I used to look forward to doing a full 25 to life career in the military, but not anymore.


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## paracowboy

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> It's not immaturity its a statement of fact, your not treated like an adult ever in the military.


bollocks. I've been responsible for millions of dollars of tax payer money, and far more importantly, men's lives.

The fact that YOU may not be treated like an adult is undoubtedly a direct result of the childishness you have displayed in this thread. I say again, get out. Not to improve your chances at a career in Law Enforcement, but because your attitude stinks.


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## George Wallace

I concure.


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## canadianblue

The military's allright, for the most part the guys on my course are great but really in retrospect I would have picked a different path. As for my bitching, I've heard many more recruits and privates bitch more then me so I doubt I'm really all that bad.


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## The_Falcon

Oh so you are still on course, and you have no exerience in military not on course.   Guess what, on your initial courses you are treated like a "ten year old" to use your term because you are NOT a trained soldier yet.  Once you are TRAINED, you MAY be treated as a peer by your fellow instructors/soldiers, so long as you have PROVEN yourself CAPABLE and COMPETENT in your choosen trade. RESPECT (on a personal level, not talking about rank here)is EARNED in the army. So once again, close your mouth, open your ears, quit your bitching and soldier on, because you are out of your lane, with regards to talking about mil experience and applying it to the police.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

...and besides, I guess you think in law enforcement one gets hired and the next day you get your gun/asp/vest? :


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## George Wallace

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ...and besides, I guess you think in law enforcement one gets hired and the next day you get your gun/asp/vest? :



He's at the age, with the attitude, where us 'old soldiers' don't know sh**.  He has learned all he needs to know.  He has more modern an outlook on life.  He is young.  We are old.  He has a High School Education.  We don't go to High School (guess that Degree means nothing.).  Ah!  What do we know anyway?  How many Leadership Courses have we had?  How many have we taught on?  He has it all figured out.  He'll do it his way.  Any wagers?


----------



## J.J

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> Not really much of an option, since I doubt any police service wants to see a dishonurable discharge on my record. I was looking forward to a career in the military after BMQ, but then just started to think that being treated like a ten year old for the next ten years of my life. I'm just going to make the best of my time in, and then get out once my contract is done.


 :rofl:....you are in for a BIG shock if you think you are treated as an adult when working in law enforcement...I am treated as more of a child in my job, than in the Army....if you doubt me, ask zipper or Bruce or noneck or blueline or blackhorse or anyone else. With all the silly rules and policies we must follow, I think I have more freedom in the military.

Back to your original question...Military experience helps a great deal with any occupation, not just law enforcement.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Just out of curiosity, what sort of "trooper" do you see yourself as in the "future" as per your screen name?  
You do realize that any police service you apply to will send an interviewer to speak to your previous supervisors and review your PER?  Perhaps a re-application of STFU and a new (if feigned) interest in your duties?
Then beat it, because it seems like there are lots of motivated young soldiers that would like your spot.
I can assure you that I would rather go through a door with a guy trained by the CF, than a greeter from WalMart.  Maybe that is just me, though.   :


----------



## GAP

George Wallace said:
			
		

> He's at the age, with the attitude, where us 'old soldiers' don't know sh**.  He has learned all he needs to know.  He has more modern an outlook on life.  He is young.  We are old.  He has a High School Education.  We don't go to High School (guess that Degree means nothing.).  Ah!  What do we know anyway?  How many Leadership Courses have we had?  How many have we taught on?  He has it all figured out.  He'll do it his way.  Any wagers?



I told most of my sons, when they got to the "I know better than you" age, that they should then move out and come back in five years. At that point they would be amazed at how much I have learned in the time they were gone.  ;D


----------



## canadianblue

> Just out of curiosity, what sort of "trooper" do you see yourself as in the "future" as per your screen name?
> You do realize that any police service you apply to will send an interviewer to speak to your previous supervisors and review your PER?  Perhaps a re-application of STFU and a new (if feigned) interest in your duties?
> Then beat it, because it seems like there are lots of motivated young soldiers that would like your spot.
> I can assure you that I would rather go through a door with a guy trained by the CF, than a greeter from WalMart.  Maybe that is just me, though.



No, I still work hard at my job if its within reason, maybe they could say that I don't make my bed perfectly folded but I doubt any employer would really care. 



> I can assure you that I would rather go through a door with a guy trained by the CF, than a greeter from WalMart.



I found that I learned better skills that would help me in life from working at Safeway then I have so far in the military. Thats my own personal opinion. 



> or blueline



Actaully, alot of members on their said the military did very little in helping with joining a police service, and they told me to do post secondary as well as get on with VSU, I should have listened to their advice.



> ...and besides, I guess you think in law enforcement one gets hired and the next day you get your gun/asp/vest?



No, not really, I'd rather be in LE and haven't found the military to be that beneficial to myself or help me make myself a better person. All in all some people love being in the military, others don't, just because somebody doesn't enjoy it doesn't mean their a jerkoff or lazy, its simply that its not the life they expected. Some of the guys that I talked to that planned on making the military a career were extremely lazy. The military is a job, thats it, I haven't found my experience in the military much different from being on civie street other then obvious regulation, living conditions, etc. I've met great members of the CF, and members that shouldn't be allowed to even be near a rifle. Don't get me wrong, I will have some great memories from being in the CF, but I would rather be doing something else with my life. 



> He's at the age, with the attitude, where us 'old soldiers' don't know sh**.  He has learned all he needs to know.  He has more modern an outlook on life.  He is young.  We are old.  He has a High School Education.  We don't go to High School (guess that Degree means nothing.).  Ah!  What do we know anyway?  How many Leadership Courses have we had?  How many have we taught on?  He has it all figured out.  He'll do it his way.  Any wagers?



I've met great NCO's that seemed to care about those below them, and I've met those that seemed to only get enjoyment out of being jerks to those below them. It all depends on the individual. I've found some NCO's were got to work with, others were extremely difficult, etc.

I'm going to make the best of my three years that I have left, and have some fun with it. I'm not gonna start being a lazy slob because I just decided that maybe I don't want to do a military career for the rest of my life.


----------



## Inspir

GAP said:
			
		

> I told most of my sons, when they got to the "I know better than you" age, that they should then move out and come back in five years. At that point they would be amazed at how much I have learned in the time they were gone.  ;D



Dad??   

I've been trough that stag, then my old man gave me some old school sergeant-major in the face. Never doughted his intellect again   :blotto: ;D


----------



## The_Falcon

FT, if you truly hate being in the army, put in you release now and do us all a favour, before you become yet another oxygen thief who simply joined the forces and stuck around simply for a paycheque.  

edit to add this


			
				Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> I've met great NCO's that seemed to care about those below them, and I've met those that seemed to only get enjoyment out of being jerks to those below them. It all depends on the individual. I've found some NCO's were got to work with, others were extremely difficult, etc.


 
Guess what buttercup, no matter where you work, you are going to have superiors that are great and some who are down right pricks, and if you believe that policing will be any different then you are very deluded indeed.  In fact given that police organizations have a paramilitary rank structure and have laws governing them that give those with rank the power to discipline persons for such "childish" things as not shaving, and being late, making your bed (like at Depot), it is my very strong belief that you would have serious problems working in a police service.


----------



## George Wallace

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> No, I still work hard at my job if its within reason, maybe they could say that I don't make my bed perfectly folded but I doubt any employer would really care.


An attitude like this "if its within reason" isn't going to get you very far in any job.  If you are not willing to put everything you have into what you are doing, an employer will not be willing to hire you.



			
				Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> I found that I learned better skills that would help me in life from working at Safeway then I have so far in the military. Thats my own personal opinion.


You really haven't learned much.  Perhaps you ought to lose the attitude above ("if its within reason") and start paying attention to your classes.  You are obviously missing a lot.



			
				Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> Actaully, alot of members on their said the military did very little in helping with joining a police service, and they told me to do post secondary as well as get on with VSU, I should have listened to their advice.


 They're, their, or there.  Which one?  Obviously you won't make a good police officer; you can't fill out the forms/reports correctly.  You will most assuredly require post secondary schooling.  You should have paid more attention when you were in High School.



			
				Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> No, not really, I'd rather be in LE and haven't found the military to be that beneficial to myself or help me make myself a better person.


You aren't even a "One Year Veteran" yet.  What do you really know?

Well, you don't seem to have what it takes to be in the CF, from your rants here.  Guess you can do your time, get out and then some time in the distant future, realize exactly what you did learn.  'till then.


----------



## canadianblue

Wow, after saying I was going to do the best I could with my time remaining in my contract, an NCO tries to belittle it which is pretty typical. 



> Well, you don't seem to have what it takes to be in the CF, from your rants here.



Compared to what, even an NCO told me he liked his job because he didn't have to do much of anything during the day. It don't have what it takes to be in the CF eh, while I was in Borden their were guys that were caught drinking and driving, vandalized property, dealt drugs, were caught with drugs, had AWOL charges brought up against them, assault on police constables, etc. I guess they probably have what it takes compared to myself. I've worked as hard as I could, and when some NCO screws up, guess what usually happens, you take crap for some NCO's mistake that he's not willing to admit to. 

I don't hate the military, I just would have preferred to take a different route, as do alot of people that have joined up. To say that because a person doesn't want to be in for 25 to life is a lazy slob, they just want to do something different with their lives. 



> You really haven't learned much.  Perhaps you ought to lose the attitude above ("if its within reason") and start paying attention to your classes.  You are obviously missing a lot.



What classes are you referring to? 



> Guess what buttercup, no matter where you work, you are going to have superiors that are great and some who are down right pricks, and if you believe that policing will be any different then you are very deluded indeed.  In fact given that police organizations have a paramilitary rank structure and have laws governing them that give those with rank the power to discipline persons for such "childish" things as not shaving, and being late, making your bed (like at Depot), it is my very strong belief that you would have serious problems working in a police service.



I know more members that want to stay in for life simply for the paycheque, its not just relegated to those that are thinking of getting out once finishing up their contract. I'm simply going to make the best of my next few years in the CF, I don't see how I'm being an oxygen thief when I'm actaully trying to work hard at my unit. I've never been late for timings, or making my bed, or shaving. I was able to do all those activities before being in the military just fine. As well I've been exposed to Edmonton Police Service, and I don't think I'd have much of a problem working in that type of an environment. As well I'm sure that members of a police service would see more problems in having members drinking and driving, committing assault, substance abuse, etc. and would have their priorities set straight.  

Read Carefully, I loved my time in the field during basic, as well as some of the friendships I have made during my time in the military. But in the long run I think that it would have been a better choice to do something else other then go regular force army. I haven't been able to see how my character has improved in any way from being in the military. I might choose to stay in with the reserves once I am done my contract, I'm not sure what life is like after training, only basing it upon what members have told me. I have been able to do some cool things while I've been in the military, as well as meet some good people, however I think its done nil in helping me with improving my character, self confidence, personal responsibility, etc. If anything that just reinforces it as I find that the attitude is if any member need help or has a problem then simply belittle them until they keep silent which is no way to run any organization of any kind, whether military or civilian.



> No, I still work hard at my job if its within reason, maybe they could say that I don't make my bed perfectly folded but I doubt any employer would really care.
> An attitude like this "if its within reason" isn't going to get you very far in any job.  If you are not willing to put everything you have into what you are doing, an employer will not be willing to hire you.



No, if an employer does something that is beyond reason, atleast in civie street I simply tell them my concerns and if they disagree then I'll follow through with what they told me to do. I wouldn't do that in the military because I wouldn't want to get charged and get a pay deduction.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> No, if an employer does something that is beyond reason, at least in civvie street I simply tell them my concerns and if they disagree then I'll follow through with what they told me to do. I wouldn't do that in the military because I wouldn't want to get charged and get a pay deduction.



Uh, I hate to be a buzz kill, but when you are in law enforcement, there are a heap of extra rules that apply to you and they may just seem unreasonable as well.  In Ontario, it is called the Police Services Act and it can be quite the fun governor.  You are not part of "civvy street".  
I also have a really hard time believing that the Sigs trade has nothing to offer  ???  Communications is such a huge industry, there has got to be some useful civilian application to the skills that you acquire in the trade?  
In any case, you obviously know more than the rest of us, so feel free to tell us to STFU, and we will withdraw from pestering you with half baked ideas.  No doubt you will breeze into your second interview, flash a dazzling smile, pop a Mentos tm into your mouth and leave the panel all smiling and nodding.  In all likelyhood you will be taken to stores right away to get your uniform, and then limo'ed to the nearest training academy for your basic constable course.  
Stick it to the man, brother!!  Let me know how it works out.  Remember, success is the best revenge, so when you get on, make sure you come back here and rub it in.  I for one will start now to acquire a taste for crow.


----------



## Red 6

An important reason to be a good Soldier: If you plan to go into law enforcement, the agency does a background investigation as part of the hiring process. During the background, your references are contacted, as are former employers, etc. If you're not squared away, it will come out in the background.


----------



## 2 Cdo

Hey Sigs Guy, if you stay in Kingston after training and are posted to CFJSR be sure to stop and say hi to the GMT cell. With your obvious dislike of the CF coupled with a poor attitude I'm sure they would love to see you. Like others have said, if you haven't learned anything during your basic, then you ARE a waste of rations!


----------



## canadianblue

No, I try to have a positive attitude and have said that I'll make the best of my contract. I don't jump on to the bandwagon that the CF is perfect, because it isn't even close. As well I did learn quite abit from basic, but afterwards doing a few months at PRETC never really did much for me. 



> I also have a really hard time believing that the Sigs trade has nothing to offer    Communications is such a huge industry, there has got to be some useful civilian application to the skills that you acquire in the trade?



I was told while I was here that Sig Ops don't get many job oppurtunities out in civie world, simply because nobody really needs somebody who knows to fill a AN/PRC-522. From what I've been told I can do some interesting jobs in HQ and Sigs when on deployment. 



> Uh, I hate to be a buzz kill, but when you are in law enforcement, there are a heap of extra rules that apply to you and they may just seem unreasonable as well.  In Ontario, it is called the Police Services Act and it can be quite the fun governor.  You are not part of "civvy street".
> I also have a really hard time believing that the Sigs trade has nothing to offer    Communications is such a huge industry, there has got to be some useful civilian application to the skills that you acquire in the trade?
> In any case, you obviously know more than the rest of us, so feel free to tell us to STFU, and we will withdraw from pestering you with half baked ideas.  No doubt you will breeze into your second interview, flash a dazzling smile, pop a Mentos tm into your mouth and leave the panel all smiling and nodding.  In all likelyhood you will be taken to stores right away to get your uniform, and then limo'ed to the nearest training academy for your basic constable course.



Probably not, I'm sure from your tone that you loved your time in the military, but not everybody does. If somebody wants to do something else once their finished their contract it doesn't mean that their bags of trash. I don't know more then the rest of you, I've never said that, I personally don't "love" being in the military, as you all do, I would rather do something else in three years. I think its the same with alot of recruits, if you want to kick out all Pte's that want to get out once their contract is done, then write the CDS.


----------



## Bobbyoreo

I think your wrong about not getting a civy job with your comms exp!!! I worked for MTS for a year and found alot of ex comm wennies!!!Plus not to meantion the amount of other things the comms branches out to.
But Im with you, if you dont like what you do and are not happy man then leave. You really dont have to make everyone else happy. Military is not for everyone. I know I picked the wrong trade and now Im also trying to get into the police and no one here cares!!!


----------



## canadianblue

Well their are some trades that I am interested, but due to the fact I'm in a red-flagged trade the chances of getting into any trade is simply out of the question. I don't mind the field stuff, I loved learning how to do combat patrols, rucksack marches, vehicles searches, dealing with refugees, etc. But I don't think I'll be able to really do much of that for the rest of my contract. I'm hoping that it'll pick up once I get to a unit, or at the very least have a somewhat decent job once I get posted.


----------



## paracowboy

> Question: Will Military Expierience Up The Chances For Police Recruiting?
> yes  6 (33.3%)
> no  2 (11.1%)
> _*I have no idea, but I'm gonna click anway  6 (33.3%)
> Don't click here. I screwed up  4 (22.2%) * _
> 
> Total Voters: 18


 toldja there'd be clicks on the last two!

Oreo, what do you mean "no one here cares"? Do you mean this forum? If so, what are we supposed to do?


----------



## Bobbyoreo

Sorry..I meant where I work. I dont mean no one cares. IE who gives a flying F%$#...I mean that people where I work say hey if you dont like it find something you like to do for a whole career...thats all. I dont see the point in working a job you know you wont be happy in. For one it makes for a long day/life and two it makes people around you mad. Anyways...we got way off topic...what was it we were talking about?


----------



## paffomaybe

A detective for the Calgary police service I was talking to said that the two cultures clashed more than you'd suspect.  In his case, his military experience (current reservist, was regforce, served in Croatia in the 90s as a liason officer, wants in back into regforce again) neither helped nor hindered in obtaining the job, but he did mention he encountered a disturbing prejudice against military types in the force.  His boss said to him point-blank:  "we don't like your type here;" military "types" were evidently looked at by "regular cops" to be too regimented and inflexible.  

But on the job, his military experience and demeanour helps him do a superior job.  Ironically, he says that there were a disproportionate number of police recruits who win top prize at the end of academy training who were either ex-military or reservist.  Then again, as an anecdotal case, it could be a purely individual thing (the detective was your classic "rockhead" cop - flattop, granite jaw, didn't have much of a sense of humour IMO.  I think he was PPCLI - they seem to clone 'em that way there  )  

Ultimately, it sounds like the answer varies from force to force.  In this particular police service, there looks to be some turf issues.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

paffomaybe said:
			
		

> But on the job, his military experience and demeanour helps him do a superior job.  Ironically, he says that there were a disproportionate number of police recruits who win top prize at the end of academy training who were either ex-military or reservist.  Then again, as an anecdotal case, it could be a purely individual thing



Agreed.  The unique military ability to go "master corporal" on someone definitely is an advantage.  Particularly being able to jack someone up without ever using curse words.  



			
				paffomaybe said:
			
		

> (the detective was your classic "rockhead" cop - flattop, granite jaw, didn't have much of a sense of humour IMO.  I think he was PPCLI - they seem to clone 'em that way there  )



HEY!  Watch it with the flat top comments!   ^-^

There are lots of things that are disagreeable with Basic.  That is what it is there for.  All the fun crap comes after you have proven yourself.  
Maybe I am too long away from regular contact with the Reg Force.  What is a "red flagged trade"?  Are you saying that you were denied your desire to go infantry?


----------



## canadianblue

Yes, given a job offer for PPCLI, accepted it, two weeks later told my vision didn't match and I had a choice of any V4 trade, of course after I declined an offer for college, as well as the RCMP's VSU unit. A red flagged trade means that their is little chance of ever being able to get out of your trade, so if I were Sigs for the next few years, even if I had done a good job at regiment, I couldn't get a good chance to OT to another trade and would have to either fail my sigs course, or basically quit the military and re-join again.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Ah, thanks for that.  Seems like that might be a recruiting issue.  I would think they would rather retain a guy and let him re-up than have him bail.  But you wouldn't want some clown with 15 trades with no great ability in any of them.


----------



## canadianblue

Well, my original plan was to start in the Infantry, get some experience with the infantry and learn what its like to be at the bottom of the barrel, then remuster to MP after that. However now it seems harder to get into the MP trade if you want a re-muster, especially from Sigs, as well for the education that I'd like to do I want options beyond the LE and Military world.

We have basically been told that we either have to fail off our sigs course, or simply quit the military and re-apply to the CF again.


----------



## Red 6

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Well, my original plan was to start in the Infantry, get some experience with the infantry and learn what its like to be at the bottom of the barrel, then remuster to MP after that.



Boy, you just skylined yourself young troop. You better get your kevlar on and hunker down in your hole. INCOMING :gunner:...


----------



## Red 6

The infantry is NOT the bottom of the barrel. It takes a lot of smarts to be a rifleman (or a machine gunner, mortarman, AT gunner, etc) on the modern battlefield. The infantry is the most traditional arm and it's the reason why the Army exists. Sigs Guy, how long have you been in the Army anyway?


----------



## paracowboy

Red 6 said:
			
		

> Sigs Guy, how long have you been in the Army anyway?


'bout 20 minutes

Don't talk to the new guys. They're probably gonna die soon.


----------



## Kat Stevens

paracowboy said:
			
		

> 'bout 20 minutes
> 
> Don't talk to the new guys. They're probably gonna die soon.




Bozz: Hey let's not become friends, Jim. You could be dead tomorrow and I'd miss you too much. 

 Tigerland


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Well, my original plan was to start in the Infantry, get some experience with the infantry and learn what its like to be at the bottom of the barrel, then remuster to MP after that. However now it seems harder to get into the MP trade if you want a re-muster, especially from Sigs, as well for the education that I'd like to do I want options beyond the LE and Military world.
> 
> We have basically been told that we either have to fail off our sigs course, or simply quit the military and re-apply to the CF again.



Dude, you just do not get it.  
Infantry is the back bone of all armed conflict.  Pretty much every single other thing that it green works to support them (most certainly not an attempt to engage in the merits of the combat arms).  A man, a weapon and a task.  The way it has been since one mono-brow picked up a sharp stick and went at another one.  
Go with your first instinct and go back to being a WalMart greeter after your contract is up.  
Don't get too hung up on policing either.  You seem to need to pursue highlighting your lack of interest in what you chose, and that tends to not work to well in law enforcement.  You need about 15 years into a place before you can start griping, and even then the 25 year guys will tell you to STFU.  Rookies complaining is intolerable.
Plus, I fail to see how a police career will hinder your education.  Most departments pay for your tuition once you are on, as long as they bear some reasonable usefulness to the Job.  
Time to get fitted for a blue vest.


----------



## Hoover

Boyo rewind troops and quit slanging off my buddy. One of the best guys I've served with..why? Because he's got a sense of humour.. and the balls the finish out his contract..

Out.


----------



## paracowboy

Hoover said:
			
		

> One of the best guys I've served with..



http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=post;topic=40612/post-405232;quote=405232;sesc=8f4032c5218e8a70e38b2fa31400d7ce



			
				Hoover said:
			
		

> Did reg force SQ in Meaford this past spring



 :


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Hoover said:
			
		

> Boyo rewind troops and quit slanging off my buddy. One of the best guys I've served with..why? Because he's got a sense of humour.. and the balls the finish out his contract..



What did you serve?  Cocktails at a Christmas party?  
I don't see fulfilling an obligation as having any particularly spectacular ballishness.  You signed, you work.  Is that what passes for hardcore these days?  And thus far we haven't seen the rapier wit that you have come to be so doey eyed and enamoured with.  Maybe he is just funny for you?  
Sigs Guy has brought the attention onto himself, and continues to by not indicating that he feels any sort of compunctions about what has been said.  
I'm sure he thanks you for being such a super battle buddy.


----------



## canadianblue

I'm not a veteran at all, not even close to one. 



> Go with your first instinct and go back to being a WalMart greeter after your contract is up.
> Don't get too hung up on policing either.  You seem to need to pursue highlighting your lack of interest in what you chose, and that tends to not work to well in law enforcement.  You need about 15 years into a place before you can start griping, and even then the 25 year guys will tell you to STFU.  Rookies complaining is intolerable.
> Plus, I fail to see how a police career will hinder your education.



Wasn't a Wal Mart greeter, and I never said that a police career will hinder my education either. Why would I want to get into policework to hinder my education, I don't understand. Besides that from what I hear Sigs is interesting after CFSCE, any job that I get I'll be content. I haven't really complained to anybody else, on course, or any staff for the most part, I usually keep my mouth shut while trying to learn about the Radios, LAN, etc.



> You signed, you work.  Is that what passes for hardcore these days?



I'm not hardcore, nor will I ever be. Most of the hardcore's are guys that haven't had any real experience and believe the military is similar to what Ghost Recon is like. I don't really know what hardcore is, a better idea for me coming from anybody in any job is professionalism.

My mistake on the bottom of the barrel comment, poor wording on my part. What I meant was learn to know what it is like to be a regular foot soldier first, and then go onto a different trade if I decided the infantry wasn't for myself. As well I believe the infantry would let me do some interesting things while in. Some of the best guys I've known were going into the infantry, so I doubt I'd really wanna attack them. 

Now you can try to dissect this post to find new and innovative ways to insult my character.


----------



## paracowboy

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Most of the hardcore's are guys that haven't had any real experience and believe the military is similar to what Ghost Recon is like.


no, I understand you're trying to be sarcastic, but the truly Hardcore are the guys who've put years in, know how badly this job can truly suck, and continue on, anyway. They do it because it's worth it.


----------



## canadianblue

Yes of course, those are the guys that I've got the greatest respect for. If they enjoy this job and they love it then of course they should go on, all I'm saying is that this job isn't for everyone, and some people simply would rather get for example their four years done as well as a tour and then go back to civilian world. I don't see whats so dishonourable about that. 

I was talking about Pte's with no real experience in, who think their hardcore killers because they have finished basic and SQ.

I've never seen any action, or done any real tours, so I can't judge myself on what I'd do in certain situations. The only people that can judge that are the people that are serving with me if I go on tour.


----------



## paracowboy

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> I was talking about Pte's with no real experience in, who think their hardcore killers because they have finished basic and SQ.


I knew what you meant, but I was doing a pre-emptive strike, before someone mis-read.


----------



## canadianblue

Allright, I'll try to set the record straight here. First things first, I have enjoyed some of my time in the army, and do value alot of what I have done, but in the long run I would rather do something else with my life, and in some ways do wish that I had done something other then sign the four year contract which I will fullfill. Second, I will work as hard as I can at my job when I am at regiment, or any other posting I get, as well as work my *** off on tour in order to ensure that my job is being done. Finally, I do have a few beef's with the army experience, but then again that might change over time, and I'm sure it will, I think that alot of recruits have had the same perspective before me. 

If I have offended anyone here, I apologize for it, especially to any NCO or former member of the military who has responded back to me. Next time around I will stay more in STFU mode unless I actaully have experience in what I'm talking about, or when I feel I can give an honest opinion.


----------



## paracowboy

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Allright, I'll try to set the record straight here. First things first, I have enjoyed some of my time in the army, and do value alot of what I have done, but in the long run I would rather do something else with my life, and in some ways do wish that I had done something other then sign the four year contract which I will fullfill. Second, I will work as hard as I can at my job when I am at regiment, or any other posting I get, as well as work my *** off on tour in order to ensure that my job is being done. Finally, I do have a few beef's with the army experience, but then again that might change over time, and I'm sure it will, I think that alot of recruits have had the same perspective before me.
> 
> If I have offended anyone here, I apologize for it, especially to any NCO or former member of the military who has responded back to me. Next time around I will stay more in STFU mode unless I actaully have experience in what I'm talking about, or when I feel I can give an honest opinion.


sounds fair to me.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> I'm not hardcore, nor will I ever be. Most of the hardcore's are guys that haven't had any real experience and believe the military is similar to what Ghost Recon is like. I don't really know what hardcore is, a better idea for me coming from anybody in any job is professionalism.



The hardcore comment wasn't directed at you, it was with Hoovers apparently being dazzled at your brilliant wit and being impressed with simply fulfilling your contract.  Sorry if you took it personal.  
I think I'm about done here too, unless anyone has any police-ish questions.


----------



## canadianblue

Actaully, to bring it up will a police service help a member if they are seeking a post secondary education. I've been thinking of possible getting a degree in education, however at the same time am interested in doing policework?

As well has anybody heard about the possibility of creating a Border Patrol similiar to the one in the US, I remember hearing some talk about it, but I'm not sure if its just talk?


----------



## Cloud Cover

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Actaully, to bring it up will a police service help a member if they are seeking a post secondary education. I've been thinking of possible getting a degree in education, however at the same time am interested in doing policework?



Yep- but I think it has to be either a professional degree or an advanced degree at the master's level. I went to law school with a York Region copper and did my MBA with a female RCMP inspector. In both cases, they were there on the force's dime for reimbursement after they passed, although I think the York copper had to fight for remibursement all the way to an arbitration decision.


----------



## BEN 621

No Neck & Spot On: both bang on on your earlier postings.

Cruising around and found this topic. CF Infantry Sgt retired (makes me feel old saying that), 2 yrs reserves followed by 9 yrs regs, and now a constable with a large municipal police service for the last few years.

I'll exapnd more or respond later on this topic, but what a member of the CF interested in applying to the police should keep at the forefront, is that what recruiters look for are life experience, common sense, discipline and work ethic, and they know that a good number (not all mind you) of military members possess these traits, regardless of their trade.

There is no perfect job, there are problems and politics everywhere, but I love it , and glad I made the change; just wish I had been eligible to get the "10 years service - get a half-pension" option, which the CF did away with a few years before I got out! Oh well, nice chunk of RRSP's with my return of contributions.... I digress......
It's not a job for everyone, but it is for some, and Iin my opinion, if you have the aforementioned traits and are interested, give it a shot.

And for the record, I know that square-jawed ex-PPCLI officer well that PAFFO-guy (sorry, it's late) mentioned earlier, and I've never experienced that attitude (yet, anyway).

So yes, it is an advantage to have served in the military, but not with the mindset that "I know how to shoot, can kick the cr*p outta people, yell & swear" but more so in the ability to think on your feet and work hard. It is not a guarantee to being accepted, nor should it be, but it is an valued asset. And I've been told this by a senior member of our recruiting unit recently, which is looking at how to attract & recruit more military members in the near future.

Victoria Patricia...


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Actaully, to bring it up will a police service help a member if they are seeking a post secondary education. I've been thinking of possible getting a degree in education, however at the same time am interested in doing policework?



It will likely be covered in the individual contracts with each service.  Ours gets you a Ba or BSc, and several college courses.  After that, you are on your own.



			
				Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> As well has anybody heard about the possibility of creating a Border Patrol similiar to the one in the US, I remember hearing some talk about it, but I'm not sure if its just talk?



The border patrol is a work in progress, and will not likely be around for many, many years.  The CBSA is having a hard enough time converting from tax collection to enforcement.  I don't know if the Fed is ready to create an entire new agency just yet.  PM WR for a better sum up of border issues.


----------



## paffomaybe

BEN 621 said:
			
		

> And for the record, I know that square-jawed ex-PPCLI officer well that PAFFO-guy (sorry, it's late) mentioned earlier, and I've never experienced that attitude (yet, anyway).



Make sure you tell MTK that he had some of the ladies in the group swooning with his demeanour.  (Nothing says lovin' like a square-jawed copper telling it like it is, evidently!)


----------



## zipperhead_cop

paffomaybe said:
			
		

> Make sure you tell MTK that he had some of the ladies in the group swooning with his demeanour.  (Nothing says lovin' like a square-jawed copper telling it like it is, evidently!)



+1   ;D


----------



## ChristopherRobin

My .02 cents...

To sorta redirect this back to why this thread was initially started, I would think military service would make you and your resume look better.  I heard being commissioned is a huge bonus because being an officer, you're in a position of leadership constantly. Beyond that, when it comes to written tests, physical tests, POLYGRAPH tests and interviews, it's all you and you alone. Someone off the street might have just as good civvie experiences and can be just as coherent, articulate and intelligent...and have a 'better' background (having high levels of integrity). Of course, experiences and habits learned in the military would help you through the police selection process (I would assume anyway). 

One big thing I've seen that they're looking for is volunteer work, which has already been covered before. Volunteering with police forces ('crime watch' usually) is extremely valuable because it shows you've been exposed to police officers and police procedures. Finances are a big factor as well.  You can't be in too much debt... but if you're in the military being paid the big bucks, you should be ok. The RCMP is one of the few police forces out there that pay for your training.  I think Calgary and Edmonton do as well.  Any police force training in BC is paid out of your own pocket: approx $9,000-$10,000.  If you apply to several police forces at the same time, that can produce negative effects.  On one side, you're increasing your chances of being hired by someone; on the other side, the police forces you might be applying to might question your loyalty or wonder if you plan on transferring elsewhere after a couple years.  At that point they lose their investment.  I live in Victoria, on Vancouver Island BC.  I applied to the Vancouver city police and I was grilled on the phone and then during my interview for the simple fact that I live in Victoria and volunteer for the Victoria Police Dept (Vancouver was the only city I applied to, by the way).  When you're interviewed, make sure you know a lot about the city you're applying to: mayor, chief of police, population, number of municipalities, number of police officers in the department in question. I also read a post somewhere here where military people are considered too rigid and regimented.  I don't know if there's any truth to that but police officers have to have anything but 'linear' thinking.   

This turned out to be more of a "tips on police recruiting than anything else" post. Oh well, maybe it'll help someone down the line.  One interesting fact which I don't think I read in this entire thread is: If you served in the military for a certain amount of time and you are accepted into the RCMP, your pension is transferred and years of service are credited. To get your full pension in the RCMP, it's 25 years just like the military.  If you spend 5 years in the military, well your 25 year police career just got knocked down to 20 years if you like.  Pretty cool stuff... and you can wear your medals.  I'm not sure about qualifications like jump wings on RCMP uniforms... it would be interesting to find out though. 

(disclaimer: I didn't get into the Van PD because I was not 'allowed' to get hooked up to the polygraph machine. The interview 'thought' I was lying and decided to shut my file down. So I'm no expert, I'm just voicing my thoughts on this thread.)


----------



## Blackhorse7

Wow, I just saw this thread.  Shot's fired....

I feel I have to weigh in here.  I can't help that think my military time helped with my application, because without it, I didn't bring much to the table.  I had a grade 12 education, and a background in security work (as in security guard, and yes, at a mall for part of it).

My interview to this day is I think where I nailed my spot in the RCMP, and most of that was speaking about experiences I drew off my time in.  So in short, I think military time helps. 

Sigs Guy, I have to make some observations, and they are not meant as slights.  I don't want to open up that door again.  But that being said, if you get into the RCMP or another force, I don't want you in my office.  You *have* to be hardcore to some degree, because when the shit hits the fan, you better be able to put rounds downrange and drag me out of there.  Because I would do it for you.  And I think you have some misconceptions about Policing.  You know what I just spent the last two hours (on my day off I might add) doing?  Marking my recruit's Mod A training package.  It's not all running and gunning, while wearing Oakleys and hitting on chicks.  Far from it.  There is more paperwork and policy guiding your actions than you can ever hope to imagine.  It is long hours, uncomfortable work conditions, and can go from weeks of sheer boredom to seconds of sheer terror.  You will see many dead people, some of which died horribly, you will have to tell loved ones that there (fill in family person here) is dead.  And then you will have to go write hours of paper about it, and go home to a normal life.  And by that I mean 

"How was your day honey?"

"Oh, fine... I had to do my TPS reports over again.  How was yours?"

"Great!  I got to shovel some kids brains off the road after he got hit by a truck, and then go tell his mom that it was his fault for riding his bike like a jackass!  And then I got *my* twenty reports bounced back because they didn't have enough detail."

Your comments in here leave me with the feeling that you are not ready for this life yet.  I'm not saying you won't be later, but life experience is a must.  You will here that from any officer who posts in here.  You will get lots of that in the military.  And at 19 years of age, you just don't have enough.  I hope that didn't sting too much, that was not my intention.  PM me if you want some help/advise about what could help down the road.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Blackhorse7 said:
			
		

> It's not all running and gunning, while wearing Oakleys and hitting on chicks.  Far from it.  There is more paperwork and policy guiding your actions than you can ever hope to imagine.



Then clearly you should check out municipal policing.   ;D

Seriously though, bang on post.


----------



## rregtc-etf

Military experience can't hurt and would be a definite asset going through police college or on a tactical unit, however military experience alone won't cut it getting you through the door.  In most cases hiring of new recruits comes after a lengthy process of tests, interviews and a point system awarded for education, language skills, physical fitness and life experience.  The military would count as part of life experience but so would most other careers.  Couple that with the fact that police recruiters would give points for visible minorities and women.  So the bottom line is that you are competing for the position from a  pool of applicants, and they'll take the ones that score highest.  Once hired military experience won't make you a better cop, same way a University Degree won't make you a better cop.  That has more to do with personality/ social character traits.  Your personality traits seem to magnified once someone becomes a cop.  If he /she is an idiot or lazy, they'll just become idiot or lazy cops!

Another factor is that  police recruiters are not 'street cops' and will most likely tend to go the way of political correctness when assessing an individual.  I have actually heard of a 5 year wonder female recruiting officer with Ottawa Police reject a Toronto officer with over 10 years experience who wanted to return to Ottawa.  That said, the officer was snapped up by another police service in the Ottawa area.

If you are seriously trying to get hired by a police department... 1. Get in excellent shape  2. Brush up on reading, writing and grammar 3. Become involved in your community 4. Learn sign language (if you don't speak another language) 5. Develope your communication skills 6. Let them know why you are better than the next plug in line to be interviewed. 7 Stay in school / don't do drugs.   

Max out as many points as you can


----------



## zipperhead_cop

rregtc-etf said:
			
		

> Once hired military experience won't make you a better cop, same way a University Degree won't make you a better cop.  That has more to do with personality/ social character traits.



I don't agree at all.  If you have been a soldier you will have experience with getting past verbal abuse and staying focused, physically difficult tasks and driving your body.  I know that it was the military that gave me my ability to function for 36 hours straight without sleep.  Pretty handy on a stake out.  As well, few civilian areas push leadership the way the military does.  You don't need to have CF experience to be a good cop, but having it will go a long way to making you one. 
I *do* agree that university doesn't help towards being a good officer.



			
				rregtc-etf said:
			
		

> Your personality traits seem to magnified once someone becomes a cop.  If he /she is an idiot or lazy, they'll just become idiot or lazy cops!



Is this from your personal experience or are you just assuming?  Are you or have you been a police officer?



			
				rregtc-etf said:
			
		

> Another factor is that  police recruiters are not 'street cops' and will most likely tend to go the way of political correctness when assessing an individual.  I have actually heard of a 5 year wonder female recruiting officer with Ottawa Police reject a Toronto officer with over 10 years experience who wanted to return to Ottawa.  That said, the officer was snapped up by another police service in the Ottawa area.



Again, from what point of qualification do you speak?  One of the people who does the screening for our Department retired after 37 years and never worked a shift off the road.  And if you accused him of political correctness you would likely get a bear paw upside your head.  There are a host of reasons for not hiring someone.  Simply putting in ten years somewhere doesn't make you a good worker.  Look at how many people have CD's


----------



## Blackhorse7

Zipperhead...

+1...


----------



## rregtc-etf

Hi Zipper,

I agree with what you are saying in an overall sense that military experience would be a benefit to the individual officer, however the question was," Will military experience up the chances for police recruiting?"  When referring to the recruiters I was just making a generalization, of course it can't apply to every individual. In my 20 years plus police experience including uniform, tactical, supervisory and detective work I have found that my military experience was an asset when it came to firearms confidence and time management.  It did not do anything for investigative technique, interviewing witnesses, interrogating suspects, recognizing and preserving evidence, discretion, or being able to pick out the real shitheads from the wannabe criminals.  

Many, if not all, of the best  police officers I have worked with have no military background but have properly learned their skills from scratch through a series of competent coach officers. There is no such thing as a born police officer or detective, it is a learned thing and some people are better learners than others (I think that is a personality trait).  Most police work is OJT, it would be next to impossible for a 20 year officer who has never worked in an investigative office to write even a simple search warrant and have a hope in hell of getting it signed by a JP or Judge.

Incidentally, I have never been the subject of verbal abuse, if I had the grounds I would arrest, caution or lay paper, if not FIDO.  I'm not paid to be shouted at by an idiot,  that's not to say that some goofy teenager has never told me to F*** off or called me a pig...big deal.   In my humble opinion, any police officer that engages in arguments or lectures members of the public (with the exception of children on traffic safety) is a moron. 

As far as stake outs, I've never worked on a surveillance team, so any "stake out" or crime scene protection I have done has never been longer than my tour of duty.  In this day and age they don't pay you overtime to sit and watch a building, if required you will be relieved by another officer.

I stand by my previous post.


----------



## Blackhorse7

Rregtc-etf

I agree, but only to a point.  I'll conceed that my military time did nothing to prepare me for investigative techniques and the like.  However, the pace and long hours of Depot were a non-issue for me, as I was now accustomed to having to be up for days on end from the military.  A lot of non-military subjects had a real hard time with the long days.  Similarly, having respect for a rank structure was already a part of me.  I'm sure with your 20 years as a Police Officer you could agree with me that members are not today what they were back then.  I'm no advocate for mindless robots that tow the company line, but I have seen some blatant disrespect and disregard for the rank structure.  I'm sure you have too.

I can only guess that you are part of a municipal force if you have not had to work beyond the end of your tour.  Having served in both small and large Detachments, there were sometimes days on end that you were forced to work, because there just wasn't anyone else.  My longest stint was a 36 hour stretch on a murder investigation.  I don't think that would have been possible without my military background (both on the work ethic side, and knowing I could operate that long).


----------



## rregtc-etf

Blackhorse7

I think you have hit the nail on the head, in the sense that it may be of more benefit depending on the particular police service chosen by the applicant.

I have been with TPS since 1985 and have worked  worked in nine different units, both investigative and support.  The longest stretch I have ever worked straight was 27 hours, but that happened only once.  On average I would say a 10 hour day.   Nowadays, paid overtime is supervised very closely and kept to a minimum, however it is not unusual to have Detectives and even some uniformed Constables earning in excess of $100,000 because of court, overtime, and paid duties.

I attended a course at RCMP Depot and had time to see some of the recruits do their training.  I have also had the pleasure of working with RCMP - INSET, and RCMP - EDPS so I'm familiar with both forces SOP.  The RCMP seem to have retained more of a para military style than TPS, so in that environment previous military service would definitely be a huge asset.

In Toronto, the flavour is more of a community interaction in a city that has high crime areas, multi million dollar homes, ethic drug gangs, quiet residential neighbourhoods and 24 hour a day pockets of human activity.   The average officer may be called on to do routine stuff like investigate a motorvehicle accident where neither party speaks  English or interact with people that are distrustful of any authority figures.   A military deportment or bearing may be too stiff and is definitely not suited for doing any street level drug work. That said, I'm sure nothing happens in Toronto that doesn't happen anywhere else.

In the end, I am still of the opinion that 95% of police work is learned on the job, common sense, good communications skills, self motivation and an open mind are the ideal assets, added military experience would just be icing on the cake.


----------



## paracowboy

rregtc-etf said:
			
		

> it is not unusual to have Detectives and even some uniformed Constables earning in excess of $100,000 because of court, overtime, and paid duties.


I am SO in the wrong job!  :'(


----------



## bick

No you're not, being a cop is HIGHLY over-rated.


----------



## cobbler

I spoke to a Policeman a while ago about this.


He said military service itself would not be a help in a police application.

HOWEVER he then said that:

The life experience gained and the skills developed by being in the military would improve the chances of an applicant, depending on the person.


So I guess the benefits of service in a police application are what you yourself have taken out of your time in the military.


----------



## fly_lady_fly

Being a policing student (BAHS - Police Studies from Georgian College), I've asked this question of professors and recruiters alike (on behalf of my bf, considering policing as a career after his contract expires). 

I found it interesting, and noteworthy, that the RCMP recruiter I spoke with had less to say about military experience 'upping the chances' of being hired than either OPP or municipal recruiters did. The reply I recieved directly from him basically said that it made little difference in the hiring process and that, if military experience lent anything to the character of the applicant, it really was on an individual basis. I've got to agree with Cobbler here, at least as far as the Mounties are concerned, it's all in what you take out of it. 

From the responses we recieved, if you're interested in a career in policing, the OPP seems to be the best way to go... at least, if you actually live in Ontario.  :-\

Hope this helps...


----------



## The_Falcon

If you really wanna use your military experience to get on, go for Peel Regional Police, aka 5 RCR.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

bick said:
			
		

> No you're not, being a cop is HIGHLY over-rated.



Riiiight.  And your bitter attitude comes from your personal experience as a LEO?  Stick to the intent of the thread.  

Military experience is not a magic bullet to getting hired.  Nothing is.  However, I still feel that someone who has some significant experience in the CF (meaning a few years and at least one leadership course) is going to have an edge over the masses.  
The hardest part of the application process is getting past the interview(s).  With the various scenarios that they throw at you, having been part of a team, being under duress, leading others, conflict resolution etc. all go towards coming off as having some useful life experience.  

rregtc-etf, just out of curiosity, what Div are you at now?  I used to live about half a click from where 42 currently is.


----------



## rregtc-etf

Zipperhead, I'll email to your hotmail


----------



## 2 Cdo

Zipperhead in reply to your comments directed at Bick. Yes he is a police officer, also an MP once. Ex RCR, PPCLI,  airborne so in fact I would say it does come from personal experience.


----------



## Blackhorse7

Not to be nit-picky, but I wish that if subjects posting in Police related topics are saying they are Police Officers, they should fill out more info in their profiles.  That may help to alleviate some of the questions as to someone's credibility....


----------



## bick

So highly over-rated that after 5 yrs in the RCMP, I have just handed in my resignation.  I report to 2PPCLI in Shilo next month.  

Zipperhead cop, if your service is great, good for you.  Most POs I have spoken with tell of blades, careerism and lazy wastes of skin in their services. 

Good luck to all who want to be cops.  It can be rewarding, but it ain't the army.


----------



## rregtc-etf

Unfriendly competition and careerism is a fact of life in most corporate jobs when there is only a limited number of spots at "the top".  The difference: every Chief of Police starts his career as a Constable.  I don't think too many army generals starting out as privates (or equivalent).  Another difference is that the vast majority of police officers tend to stay in the job well into their mid 50's.  I don't think there are too many 50 year old infantry privates still humping it out in the field. Another difference is that the military has a greater need for NCO's, Sr. NCO's and Officers to maintain a more complex system of responsibilities including long range transportation, accommodations and consumable rations.  

In a police platoon/troop the Sergeants are not  primarily required for decision making, but spend a greater amount of time controlling deployment, managing human resources at incidents and checking police reports for errors and omissions. The vast majority of Sergeants will have had formal investigative or specialized unit experience however, in the majority of 911 calls a Constable will respond / attend, investigate and resolve the situation according to laws and has the discretion to resolve some matters as he/she sees fit, a Sergeant on scene will only be in the way.  Serious crime scenes must be reported to and must be attended by a Sergeant and or Detective.

So, because there aren't as many supervisory positions, there is a greater competition for promotion and a greater competition for courses among Constables trying increase their qualifications in order to get promoted. 

From Constable to Staff Sergeant it is pretty much an exam and experience based promotional system with interview panel.  If an officer reaches the Senior Officer Ranks of Inspector and higher, positions are more based on performance and merit similar to military commissioned officers

Unfortunately the competitive nature of the police promotions system results in self serving dickheads being promoted every now and then.


----------



## Zombie

ChristopherRobin said:
			
		

> One interesting fact which I don't think I read in this entire thread is: If you served in the military for a certain amount of time and you are accepted into the RCMP, your pension is transferred and years of service are credited. To get your full pension in the RCMP, it's 25 years just like the military.  If you spend 5 years in the military, well your 25 year police career just got knocked down to 20 years if you like.



Does anyone know if this is true for the OPP also? Been told it is, but cannot find any info on it. Is an OPP pension 25 years? Searched but cannot find.


----------



## noneck

ChristopherRobin

Using CF time towards your RCMP pension is not quite as accurate as you described. In order to have a full pension without penalty you have to work 24 and a day, then you can port over your CF time or other Federal time for that matter..

For instance I brought over 5 years of Class C and Class B (over 180 days) out of the 11.5 that I served., I immediately got the service credit towards extra leave. If i work to 24 and day I will have a pension of 30 years which is equal to 60% of my best 5 averaged.

Noneck


----------



## MP 811

bick said:
			
		

> Most POs I have spoken with tell of blades, careerism and lazy wastes of skin in their services.



Are you sure you were RCMP and not my last outfit?....one of the reason's why I jumped ship......


----------



## gate_guard

With regards to bick's comments: no, policing is not the army, nor should it be. In my opinion, being good at either often demands similar character traits but the average policing day is nowhere close to being the same as an average day in the military. Bick, its unfortunate that you did not enjoy your policing experience but I give you credit for not jumping ship right out of the gate and at least giving it a couple years. But I would venture to say that blades/careerists/lazy wastes of skin can be found not only in policing, but in the military as well, or any profession for that matter. I have learned quickly that no two officers have identical careers/experiences. Some become bitter and lazy because of their experiences, others look back fondly on every minute of their career. And again, I think that the same can be said of many soldiers as well. One of the draws for me personally was the fact that if I get tired or bored in my current position in policing, I can always do something different while still carrying a badge.

As for military experience helping on your application, from my own experience it definitely helped me stand out from dozens of other candidates. But as has already been stated, I think it really depends on what your military experience is, how you learned from it, and how well you can explain to the recruiter that your military experience will make you a better officer.


----------



## Bobbyoreo

Ive recently heard of 3 ex members of 2vp quiting the RCMP and heading back to the unit. I wonder if there was more expected from the police or why this is happening, cause it just cant be because of the blades....as the forces have alot of their own. Anyways I wish you the best in your new/old unit.


----------



## thehare

Hey everyone, lately I've been thinking of a career in law enforcement ( in particular the Toronto Police Service), but I also wish to serve my time in the Canadian Forces. Well the obvious thing that came to my mind would be  trying the Military Police for a while and then after a few years switch to civilian police. What I do not know is if it is possible to apply to a civilian police agency while still being employed by the Military ( reason being is that I do not want to leave the military than apply for the TPS just to end up without a job for a few months while waiting for my application to go through).

          And on another note, I've read in a few posts that Civilian Police Agencies do not recognize serving with the Military Police as actual police service. I was just wondering if this is true or not, and if this is true, why is that.

Again Thanks For your time.


----------



## Sig_Des

There are many members who have applied for Civilian LE organisations while still in. You may want to read some of the threads located here:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/index.php/board,54.0.html

As far as CivPol recognizing MP service, some do, some don't. Located in the above forum would be this thread;

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/82219.0.html


----------



## mariomike

thehare said:
			
		

> I've read in a few posts that Civilian Police Agencies do not recognize serving with the Military Police as actual police service. I was just wondering if this is true or not, and if this is true, why is that.



I found a couple of Police websites with "Will my military experience help?" in their FAQs. 
One borders Toronto, and the other is not far away.
Nothing specific about M.P., but I hope this helps.:
http://www.yrp.ca/default.aspx?pg=f3f45c04-4552-45d8-8386-f64f015a5338
http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/FAQ/Recruitment/Sworn/RecruitmentSwornFAQDetails.htm#15


----------



## Roofus

Hey there, i'm new too the forum. I am joining the Reserves (I passed the aptitude test and awaiting to do my medical) but anyway, Im 18 now, and wanting to become a Police Officer when im older. Will being in the Reserves for 3 years (when I apply for Policing position) give me a significant advantage over someone that has not? all throughout high school I took the 'applied' route, therefore University really is not in the question for moi. I'm planning to do Police foundation 2 year course at college and by then I will have been in the Reserves for 3 years. I hear most officers being hired are having university degrees, thats why im nervous...

any comments? 

Thanks, Josh.


----------



## mariomike

Roofus said:
			
		

> Will being in the Reserves for 3 years (when I apply for Policing position) give me a significant advantage over someone that has not?



Topic: "Military to Police Career":
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/92660/post-917341.html#msg917341

"Will my military experience help? 
York Regional Police values the contributions made by the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces. While specialized military training will very likely prove valuable once an applicant is hired with York Regional Police, the Constable Selection Process remains the same for every applicant regardless of military service."

Hamilton:
"Q.  Will my military experience help?
A.  Applicants are looked at individually as to what skills they bring with them. Military service is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage."

Your best bet is to contact the Recruiting office of the Police Service(s) you are interested in. The two examples above are the only two I was able to find that had your question in their FAQ. 
Good luck with that.


----------



## Ducam

Hello,

I have just been accepted to attend BMQ for July 15th as an Infantry soldier with the RCR.

I am only planning on doing my three years of service and then leaving to take what I have learned from the Army and applying it to law enforcement.

I am wondering what is the most I can learn in my three years following BMQ and DP1 (which from what I am reading is now called something else)?

The skills listed on the Forces.ca website show things like unarmed combat training and such but in my short time with the Infantry will I be able to learn much?

Does anyone know what the most I can gain in my three years?

I am highly motivated and already physically fit which I know are two good qualities when joining up and I know you are given an assessment at least once a year to see how you're doing. Can you climb the ranks faster than being promoted once a year?


----------



## PMedMoe

Promoted once a year?  Doesn't happen.  If you're only doing three years Reg F, you'll get out as a Private.


----------



## Jacky Tar

For pretty much every trade in the CF, your first promotion comes at 30 months of service, and the next at 48 months, though if you've met your trade progression requirements, the second one can be 'advanced' to as early as 36 months. That would make you a corporal at the 3 year mark.


----------



## mariomike

Ducam said:
			
		

> I am only planning on doing my three years of service and then leaving to take what I have learned from the Army and applying it to law enforcement.



You may wish to check with the Service(s) you are interested in joining about that.

For example.

Q: I am a current/past member of the military. Do I get special consideration?

A: Although we appreciate your service in the military, all current and past members of any military service will proceed through the Constable Selection System like any other candidate.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/uni_faq.php#q28


----------



## Ducam

I know I'm not treated special by any means. I know I still have to go through all the regular hoops of ats testing and interviews but being a white male who only speaks one language I need something that sets me apart from other people applying to police Forces. Military gives me certain skills not obtainable by civilians. 
30 percent of the people who apply to peel police have military on their resume. If you go on the Waterlo. Regional police website they have a bunch of officers with personal profile stories and three of them also served. 
I'm just looking to get the experience and training.
I want to know how much training I might get.


----------



## Jacky Tar

The point is, you'll be trained to meet the Army's requirements, not yours. So you'll learn to be a soldier. There are remarkably few soldier skills which translate well to LEOs. Weapons? As a soldier you'll carry a C7; cops carry a pistol. First aid, yes; though I *think* police get more advanced first aid than the MSFA course. Physical fitness is important, though you've said you're already good in that department. Pretty much all the GSK subjects will be of no use, really - CF rank structure, the NDA, intro to QR&Os, SISIP briefings, etc. - pretty much all irrelevant. Topo, field living, and so forth also irrelevant to cops, though supremely important for a soldier.

Not trying to be negative or discouraging, but the above are some of the examples of why police forces don't really give much weight to prior military service. Now, if you were an MP and released from the CF, that might give you an edge.


----------



## Ducam

I'm looking at the discipline and life experience I can gain which will make me look more competitive when I apply. I know most of the training won't be of any use as a cop but things like weapons training, unarmed combat and tactics can be carried over into policing. 
Etf squad, sniper squad, even going into a dangerous situation like a drug raid or weapons raid I can take what I have and apply it. It is just more training that the police won't need to give me.


----------



## Sig_Des

Ducam said:
			
		

> I'm looking at the discipline and life experience I can gain which will make me look more competitive when I apply. I know most of the training won't be of any use as a cop but things like weapons training, unarmed combat and tactics can be carried over into policing.
> Etf squad, sniper squad, even going into a dangerous situation like a drug raid or weapons raid I can take what I have and apply it. It is just more training that the police won't need to give me.



You're looking at it wrong. The police will STILL have to give you their training. Because ours and theirs are NOT the same. Different aims. Will you develop skills and mentalities that may help you in a LE career, yes. But they won't look at your file and say "We won't need to train him in this because he did it in the army."

3 years in? You'll have some Basic CQC skills, but they'll still need to train you in theirs. You'll be familliar with weapons, but they'll still need to train you on their procedures and weapons platforms. You'll be able to do drill. You'll be able to sweep the hell out of a floor. If you get pegged as a driver, you'll be able to operate and maintain vehicles, maybe armoured vehicles. They'll still need to teach you their driving methods.

See where I'm going with this? The army will teach you how to use certain tools. The police may use similar tools, but different enough that they'll still have to teach you how to use theirs.

Is military experience an asset for LE? Sure. Is it the end-all be-all to get picked up? Nope.


----------



## Ducam

I know what you mean. Yes I'm aware that I still need to be trained in the policing ways and platforms.
Will they look at me as see a long list of things the military has trained me on and say hey this is great I think we can build upon this and make him a good police officer? 
Yes I think I increase my chances. No it isn't the be end all of training or experience but it's training and experience with pay.
And something civilians can't get


----------



## Jarnhamar

Ducam said:
			
		

> I know what you mean. Yes I'm aware that I still need to be trained in the policing ways and platforms.
> Will they look at me as see a long list of things the military has trained me on and say hey this is great I think we can build upon this and make him a good police officer?
> Yes I think I increase my chances. No it isn't the be end all of training or experience but it's training and experience with pay.
> And something civilians can't get



3 years in an infantry battalion?  You won't get much credit for that.  Police will be looking for life experience over army stuff.


----------



## Ducam

Well I'm doing well in that area as well.

I'm 27 with 6 years in security at a large retail mall in etobicoke, 2 years as a supervisor.

By the time I am 30 I should, everything goes well I hope, have 3 years of military on top of those as well.

The only way to get "life experience" is to live...which I am doing....right now....on this side of the computer...

(this is my attempt at humour which can be mistook as being an A Hole due to being read and not heard)


----------



## Jarnhamar

You should consider some college courses, maybe one of those social worker courses?  If I was interested in policing I would take a social worker course before I took police foundations.


----------



## Cbbmtt

When I applied to the RCMP, they were more interested in my knowledge of RCMP in the news, my back round check and volunteer work in the community. They never asked me once if I fired a weapon or had military service.

I think with what you have said, you should be able to get in now without going to the Forces.


----------



## Ducam

If you speak to any police recruiter they will tell you police foundations means nothing anymore!
I didn't take police foundations. I graduated college with general arts and science which doesn't count for much either bit I still went to school.
Most recruiters are frustrating because they talk in code and don't ever give a straightforward answer. Lol.
I've had a recruiter tell me that being a graduate of a business course and job experience as a manager of a retail store is just as good as what I currently have but I'm not cut out for the customer service of retail.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> I think with what you have said, you should be able to get in now without going to the Forces.



..without taking a position away from someone who plans on making a career of it.


----------



## Ducam

My backround is tarnished with a single black Mark. I'm waiting for that to clear in one more year and then give myself more time in the military and then I will apply. I would apply now but I can't. The military took me so that's where I want my experience from. I'm done with private security. The world belongs to lawyers and insurance companies in the world of private security.


----------



## Goodeman

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> ..without taking a position away from someone who plans on making a career of it.



+1. No offence.


----------



## Ducam

no offence taken.

I plan on doing the required three years to serve my country and what I can take away from it in life experience is simply a plus.

Getting back on topic though, can I expect to get any of this training during my three years

Basic Parachutist

Mountain Warfare
Instructional Techniques
First Aid 
Rappelmaster
Unarmed Combat 
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence 
Urban Operations


----------



## Cbbmtt

Ducam said:
			
		

> My backround is tarnished with a single black Mark. I'm waiting for that to clear in one more year and then give myself more time in the military and then I will apply. I would apply now but I can't. The military took me so that's where I want my experience from. I'm done with private security. The world belongs to lawyers and insurance companies in the world of private security.



So you are already in the military? Or have you just applied?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Ok, question.  

Do you think you are joining the CF for the right reason and with the proper motivation?

I don't think you get how life will be.  When you've been up for X amount of hours, or days, and it is 0 Dark Stupid in the morning, and it is cold enough that you can't start a 2 burner stove without a lot of effort, and you can light it anyways because of light discipline, and you can't fire up a smoke (same reason)...are you going to say "hell ya!  this was smart because, as a cop in a few years, this night will REALLY benefit me lots".

Just something to think about...

Now, to throw something else in;  lets say you blow a knee out.  Now you're posted to the JPSU (holding unit for ill and injured) doing 'light duties' because you're on a TCAT (restricted duties and employment) for 6 months while you heal...how's morale now?

I'd say you need to rethink this commmitment of serving and especially something like Infantry.  The reality of that type of life is something you need to be really ready for and want, IMO, or that reality might see you tapping out when _~this sucks!!! ~_ starts to happen, you go to reach down for that 'something' that everyone has to reach down and muckle on to at some point (pride?  motivation?  whatever) and...there's nothing there but a dream to be a cop in X months.

 :2c:


----------



## dangerboy

Ducam said:
			
		

> no offence taken.
> 
> I plan on doing the required three years to serve my country and what I can take away from it in life experience is simply a plus.
> 
> Getting back on topic though, can I expect to get any of this training during my three years
> 
> Basic Parachutist
> 
> Mountain Warfare
> Instructional Techniques
> First Aid
> Rappelmaster
> Unarmed Combat
> Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence
> Urban Operations



Within three years:

Basic Para - Probably only if posted to a 3rd BN;

Mountain Warfare - Depends on what the BN is doing
Instructional Techniques - If you are course loaded on a PLQ, not very likely within 3 years
First Aid - All soldiers receive Basic First Aid in recruit school
Rappelmaster - Not very likely for a Pte
Unarmed Combat - You learn the basics on DP1 Infantry
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence - All soldiers receive the basics in recruit school, for more advanced training you need to be MCpl
Urban Operations - you receive the basics in DP1 Infantry, for more advanced training you need to be MCpl


----------



## Tank Troll

Getting back on topic though, can I expect to get any of this training during my three years

Basic Parachutist Probable not
Mountain Warfare Probable not
Instructional Techniques no
First Aid yes 
Rappelmaster definitely not not
Unarmed Combat  basic concepts  
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence only the basic in regards to your own ability to protect yourself
Urban Operations basic concepts


----------



## Ducam

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ok, question.
> 
> Do you think you are joining the CF for the right reason and with the proper motivation?
> 
> I don't think you get how life will be.  When you've been up for X amount of hours, or days, and it is 0 Dark Stupid in the morning, and it is cold enough that you can't start a 2 burner stove without a lot of effort, and you can light it anyways because of light discipline, and you can't fire up a smoke (same reason)...are you going to say "hell ya!  this was smart because, as a cop in a few years, this night will REALLY benefit me lots".
> 
> Just something to think about...
> 
> Now, to throw something else in;  lets say you blow a knee out.  Now you're posted to the JPSU (holding unit for ill and injured) doing 'light duties' because you're on a TCAT (restricted duties and employment) for 6 months while you heal...how's morale now?
> 
> I'd say you need to rethink this commmitment of serving and especially something like Infantry.  The reality of that type of life is something you need to be really ready for and want, IMO, or that reality might see you tapping out when _~this sucks!!! ~_ starts to happen, you go to reach down for that 'something' that everyone has to reach down and muckle on to at some point (pride?  motivation?  whatever) and...there's nothing there but a dream to be a cop in X months.
> 
> :2c:



My motivation has always been to become a cop as it is a life career I have always wanted and can be proud of. My new motivation is my wife and obtaining the life we both want together with a family.

That is all the motivation I need.

Some of the things I will learn will not be of any use as a cop but the qualities they teach in the military are usable. 

I've had over a year to think this through and speak with recruiters in different services. I wouldn't be continuing my application and job offer if I didn't think this was a good choice to make to advance myself towards my end goals


----------



## Jacky Tar

*Eye In The Sky*'s question is still valid, though.

From where I sit, I see someone who basically wants to join the CF just long enough to grab all the free training he can,  then eject. That doesn't sit well with a lot of folks here, because the military isn't like any other line of work. Lots of folks skip from one corporation to another in the civvie world, bargaining their way up. There's no loyalty on either side. But the military is all about loyalty - to your messmates, to your unit, to the Army (or Navy, or Air Force), to the country as a whole. It's not just another rung on your climb to wherever.


----------



## Ducam

Jacky Tar said:
			
		

> *Eye In The Sky*'s question is still valid, though.
> 
> From where I sit, I see someone who basically wants to join the CF just long enough to grab all the free training he can,  then eject. That doesn't sit well with a lot of folks here, because the military isn't like any other line of work. Lots of folks skip from one corporation to another in the civvie world, bargaining their way up. There's no loyalty on either side. But the military is all about loyalty - to your messmates, to your unit, to the Army (or Navy, or Air Force), to the country as a whole. It's not just another rung on your climb to wherever.



I respect what you have to say. I respect those who make it a life long career. Right now my plan is to apply for police services during my second year. For all I know things may not work work out as planned and I stay on for some more time. Anything can happen.

If the requirement for service was greater than three years I would serve longer. Heck, I informed my recruiter and the first person I met with when submitting my papers at the RC and they didn't blink an eye.

Police work isn't like any other kind of work but it is something I would like to do. If I had applied three years ago to the military I would have stayed and made it a career but things changed.

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument. I asked my question and I have gotten more and the response I wanted. Maybe a mod should lock it up.

Thank you all for your input and insight. It is still food for thought


----------



## mariomike

Ducam said:
			
		

> I'm 27 with 6 years in security at a large retail mall in etobicoke, 2 years as a supervisor.



Perhaps too late now ( as you have joined the Reg Force ), but if you work in Etobicoke, you could add to your resume by joining TPS Auxiliary. 

You gain volunteer hours wearing the TPS uniform, and make friends / contacts within the service and the community. Community and Special Event organizers often send thank-you letters to the Department which go into your file. 

You mentioned ETF. Special teams ( including ETF Paramedics ) are selected through the Senior Qualified Process. Candidates are assessed in order of seniority until enough have been identified to fill the position(s).


----------



## Bzzliteyr

You know what?  At least you're joining.  That's much more that some people can say as they bum around the house collecting welfare.

A keen, volunteer with a good head on his shoulders is better than some bum just joining to have something to do.


----------



## UnwiseCritic

In my opinion
Basic para yes, odds are against you. Some people get it in their first year
Mountain warfare yes, however only at a basic level
Instructional yes, though very rare
First aid yes, and more
Rappel master, only seen it once
Unarmed, only in your basic infantry course. 
Cbrn, very basic. You could join cjiru but you would have to sign on for longer
Urban ops, for the most part only in basic infantry training. Seldom touched upon in bn


As for people telling you that you're joining for the wrong reasons. Don't listen too them, if the CF deems that you are a better candidate than other applicants and only requires three years from you then go for it. You may find that you love it, you may find that you hate it. I've seen plenty of people plan on doing full careers get out in their first contract. And people that only planned on three doing more.

As for eye in the sky's comments, yes your going to be cold. And your Coleman stove won't work because the guy that checked it prior to packing it, didn't because he just wanted to go home.  But it's really not that bad, it always ends and you quickly forget the bad parts. The worst part of the army is the lack of sense that happens all to often. So use the army because they'll use you. 

You can even have the army pay for some schooling while your in. And there's no saying you can't get all mountain qualified, rappel qualified, medical courses, education courses civi side while your in.

Pm me if you have any questions


----------



## Journeyman

Ducam said:
			
		

> My backround is tarnished with a single black Mark.


 Whoa.....we've all done things at "summer camp" that we tend not to talk about, but I'm sure Mark has feelings too.    :nod:


....and there's a currently-rabid thread on the topic, but the CF certainly allows that behaviour; it's not tarnishing at all.


----------



## Teager

If you really just wanted some training to add to your resume why did you not consider the reserves? At least as a reservist you could still continue pursing your goals of LEO while doing what mariomike said. Just my  :2c:


----------



## Jacky Tar

Teager said:
			
		

> If you really just wanted some training to add to your resume why did you not consider the reserves? At least as a reservist you could still continue pursing your goals of LEO while doing what mariomike said. Just my  :2c:


:goodpost:


----------



## Ducam

Real cute Journeyman! lol.

I would have liked to join the Aux for TPS but due to my criminal history, conditional discharge with one year remaining for dangerous driving, I cannot apply to Aux, Parking or Courts.

I thought about joining reserves but I seriously need a change of pace and get away from the world of security. I can't handle the amount of customer service it now entails and the job market for moving around isn't great. I don't want to make a lateral move. 

I have always wanted to join the military but I was told I couldn't when I was 19 by my family so now that I am an adult I decided I would do it now.

The military has no problem hiring me a little over 6 months after applying. 

Last time I called a TPS recruiter and explained my whole story they said that military is certainly something great on a resume and the more time I put between myself and my conditional discharge the better.

I figure that joining the military shows initiative, discipline, maturity and leadership. All of those qualities are obtained in the military.

And as for being cold and feeling like crap well that is just another challenge for me. I did the tough mudder in May in -8 weather with rain, snow and hail....I thought that was fun so I can only guess the military will be a blast and a chance to see what I am made of as part of a team.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Who knows, maybe you'll join and stay in for the long haul.

Good luck.


----------



## UnwiseCritic

Don't worry you won't only feel like crap, but you'll get too crap into bags while being cold in -40.  ;D and it's always entertaining too watch someone fall over in the process.


----------



## mariomike

Ducam said:
			
		

> I can't handle the amount of customer service it now entails and the job market for moving around isn't great.



That's completely understandable. But, is the amount of customer service likely to decrease responding to 9-1-1 calls? 

You might find the CAF a welcome change and decide to make a career of it.


----------



## Ducam

You are very right Mario Mike.

I might like it very much and want to stick it out. Would take some serious convincing of the wife though.

I know I would love the military life but the draw back is I would be either stuck near a base which would restrict her job opportunities or I would be deployed somewhere and not see her or my future family at all.

The plus to being a cop is being able to go home more often and not be sent to another country.

It has the pros and cons. Being a cop has way less customer service though. I have met loads of cops who are total dicks and have no idea what customer service even is. Not that I want that but I can tone down the customer service and ass kissing of the general public.


----------



## Cbbmtt

Calling your future colleagues in law enforcement dicks on public forums shows great maturity. 

How does the saying go? "You are what you preach".

Way less customer service? Pages and pages of paperwork, writing down statements, dealing with domestic disturbances and people spitting in your direction. Having to listen to noise complaints asking questions and taking down everything while being patient and professional. Community service has a lot of customer service to it as well.

If you are going to be RCMP, you can posted to different locations.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Ducam said:
			
		

> It has the pros and cons. Being a cop has way less customer service though. I have met loads of cops who are total dicks and have no idea what customer service even is. Not that I want that but I can tone down the customer service and ass kissing of the general public.



I didn't know cops were big on customer service...I'm more worried they are good at something I call "public safety".  

Ass-kissing of the general public?  YOU are part of that general public.  I don't mean to be rude but...you are a mall cop!!!!

 :facepalm:

I...bahahahhahaa...I.....omg...ok I can't type anymore.


----------



## Ducam

Which is why I don't wanna be a mall cop any longer.
And let me tone down the loads of cops to a handful.


----------



## Ducam

And as of July 3 I'll be a part of CF.....No more mall cop.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

I'm going to burst one bubble for you, and in the nicest way, I hope.


You say that TPS told you that military service looks good on a resume. Great. This is true. 

But, should you be successful in the ATS stage and make it to the interview, you will discover that there are plenty of people with FAR GREATER military resumes than a 3 yr Pte (you). You will be holding up your service in comparison to Reg Force Sgt's, snipers, former CANSOF, Cbt Engineers/EOD Operators, Clearance Divers, all of whom will have years of operational experience in building and leading teams, in dangerous and lethal environments, and with technical skills and qualifications which you will never have heard of.

Off the top of my head I can think of 2 people who went OPP, one was a MWO Cbt Engr EOD Operator, the other was a Sniper Sgt.

Now I'm not saying you will not get selected, far from it. However if you wish to gain anything from the military to put towards an LE career, you are going to have to invest far more than 3 years.

Basically, 3 yr Pte's are a dime a dozen when applying to the emergency services, you are going to have to have something extra to pull you ahead of the pack.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I've been in the CF 24 years next month.  K?

Last night I was talking to 2 RCMP Constables ref: an incident with a local glue-bag in my neighborhood.  I think of myself as "general public" when I am interacting with LEOs because I am.

1.  I am not on duty and if I were it would have nothing to do with assisting them in the performance of their job or the conduct of mine.

2.  I'm not trained or qualified in their job so I don't second guess their professional opinion; I listen to it and consider it.  

3.  They know I am in the CF.  They (and I) also know it gives me no special 'perks' when dealing with day to day 'stuff' like what they were there to deal with.


I know sometimes people come across a way they don't intend to in Cyberland.  BUT...I am going to say this to hopefully help you out, ok?  Of course this is only my opinion and I could be way off.

You come across, thru your posts, as a guy who has a bit of a chip on his shoulder, who wants to use the CF to get ahead, as opposed to SERVE in the CF and benefit from that experience if possible (big difference in my eyes...I could be wrong).  I also think you have may an inflated 'view' of how uniformed service people are or should be treated and thought of by Joe and Jane Taxpayer.  

I also think I can almost 100% assure you that BMQ and, more so, Infantry Battle School  are going to be eye opening experiences for you.  Those experiences are better taken in stride and learned from with some humility/a humble approach. 

I used to teach BMQs and other level courses and you get to see all kinds walk thru the doors; you start to get an ability to pick out 'indicators'.  I also remember the errors of my own ways/thinking when I was younger.

Serving Canada and Canadians is a honourable thing to do.  Just don't lose sight of the fact that we do serve the people too.

 :2c:


----------



## Ducam

Those men you're speaking of are the 30 percent I am speaking of.
I just want to be part of the 30 percentage.


----------



## Ducam

I wouldn't be joining the cf or wanting to be a police officer if I didn't Like helping people.
The bit of a chip I have on my shoulder comes from working in security.
The Canadian forces is something I want as a change in career.
Think what you may. I am still going to serve my country and keep pushing through.
thanks for the advice and opinion.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Ducam said:
			
		

> The bit of a chip I have on my shoulder comes from working in security.



My best advice to you; force yourself to leave it behind BEFORE you walk thru the Green Doors.  You might not think they (instructors) will see it but...they do, they have and they will.  They did when I did my BMQ 24 summers ago.  I did when I was staff (at CFLRS or other schools).  

It will come out when you are tired, pissed off, whatever.  It just will.  So lose it now.  Yesterday.  If you get thru BMQ with it hidden and make it to Battle School and then it comes out...well.  

That's my best advice for you this close to entering the Green Doors at The Mega.   Motivated and humble.


----------



## Ducam

Thank you for the tip. I can't wait to take orders and get yelled at. I will grin and ask for more if it means leaving private security behind! 

Not literally grin or smile though.....I know that will just get me in trouble.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

You'll see.   

Good luck at BMQ and Battle School (seriously).


----------



## Ducam

Thanks.

 I think I will be fine (seriously)


----------



## Infantryman2b

How do you learn more then the basics of unarmed combat? That and a pair of para wings is what im looking into getting.


----------



## ModlrMike

If you want to be a cop, be a cop. If you want to be a soldier, be a soldier. Don't be a soldier who wants to be a cop - you'll be disappointed at the outcome.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Infantryman2b said:
			
		

> How do you learn more then the basics of unarmed combat? That and a pair of para wings is what im looking into getting.



Get in the Infantry, do your BMQ and initial occupation trg, work hard on your first posting and tell your CofC you want to take Unarmed Combat and Basic Para.

Continue to work hard while you wait to see if you get the courses.

Pretty simple in concept, but those 2 sentences represent A LOT of work and 'nads.

 :2c:


----------



## Infantryman2b

Wouldnt expect anything but hard work in the army.  Thanks for the answer.


----------



## Danjanou

Infantryman2b said:
			
		

> How do you learn more then the basics of unarmed combat? That and a pair of para wings is what im looking into getting.



Why don't we concentrate on 

1. Getting in first

2. Getting  trhough BMQ

The ninja crap can wait until after you manage those two  things.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

I'd also worry more about getting a pair of boots than a pair of para wings.. boots are in rough supply these days.


----------



## justin9

Hi guys. I'm looking for some advice on what to do with my life, kind of like counselling i think, so thank you in advance for your time and your help towards my decision.

If you don't want to read my personal background, skip this next paragraph. I wrote it to maybe get some extra infos and opinions. I appreciate if you read & provide.

I do not know who or where else to talk to about this as I do not know a lot of people. My family and I immigrated here 5 years ago so we are still waiting for citizenship news so I can join the forces. I have been wanting to join the military ever since i started thinking about what I should do with my life. Most of the careers or jobs are interesting, but of course I'm choosing what I would want. At first my choice was to be a civilian medical technician because i wanted to learn how to keep someone alive in critical times. But now I am looking at becoming a cop. These choices appeal to me the most because i will be helping and doing something to make better and also at the same time be active. Also because i feel like I will learn a lot in life if I was one of them. My dad was an investigator for the police at a very large city. He also served the military for a few years. I really enjoy his stories. I feel like i have grown with the teachings from a cop's mind because my family is very careful, and law-abiding. Sometimes i dislike it and say he is too paranoid. I feel like I as well have grown frequently anxious. But I also feel like it taught him good lessons and that this is the way to go for protecting the family. 

Anyway, I have read a lot from here that says, one should just join the civilian work force instead of joining the military if he/she is planning on leaving the forces anyway. I think I understand why, and I'm a little disappointed because i just found out here that the military police is not credited to civilian, meaning one would have to start from the bottom in the civ forces. Can someone actually confirm this and explain why? I always thought that the experience from the military would always be good for your career, mainly becuase of deployment. It's why i was thinking of enlisting as a medical technician. But I also read from some people suggesting that he/she should just join the civilian if planning on leaving anyway. Even so, I still want to join the military because I want the experience and what it will teach me and learn survivability. Maybe travel around the world, be in a helicopter, and help people and aid in tragedies.

I'm just wondering if this is a good plan. Join the military and do something, maybe as MP. After my years of service, get back to civilian life and join the police. Right now I live in a decent size city, but I'm wanting to police in a very large city as well, for example Toronto. What are the chances I can do that after serving in the forces? If someone can maybe differentiate to me big city vs small city police, that would be awesome. I feel like police in a large city can do more than in small cities.

I'm also not certain of this plan, maybe after serving for some time in the forces I change my mind or excel. I look at the elite forces of the military and it is very(x2) inspiring.

Please help me, thanks!!


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## brihard

I can confirm that in recent months at least one experienced regular force MP has had to start from scratch when joining the RCMP and go through their six months of training. That is only a single anecdotal data point- seek more info from others.


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## mariomike

justin9 said:
			
		

> Right now I live in a decent size city, but I'm wanting to police in a very large city as well, for example Toronto. What are the chances I can do that after serving in the forces?



Q: I am a current/past member of the military. Do I get special consideration?

A: Although we appreciate your service in the military, all current and past members of any military service will proceed through the Constable Selection System like any other candidate.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/uni_faq.php#q28


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## uzi

If you were MP, for sure it's easier for you to join law enforcement. Yes, you have to start from the bottom, because you will deal with different situation. Especially, they need to brainwash you first.


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## George Wallace

uzi said:
			
		

> If you were MP, for sure it's easier for you to join law enforcement. Yes, you have to start from the bottom, because you will deal with different situation. Especially, they need to brainwash you first.



Interesting.  Other LEOs have said the opposite......Well .... no real leg up.


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## mariomike

This is a bit dated ( 2005 ) but may still have some relevance.

Police and Military Experience  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32733.0


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## JorgSlice

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Interesting.  Other LEOs have said the opposite......Well .... no real leg up.



I think uzi means easier in the sense that the applicant would already understand Law Enforcement, and what will be expected during the interviewing and assessment stages. That and Academy/College/Recruit Class will be slightly easier.

Nobody said it'd give them a leg up... But it does in some ways.


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## MPHopeful13

What you have to remember is, as with the military, civ LE agencies look for the most qualified candidates. That could be any amalgamation of languages, degrees, volunteerism, clean records, and life experience. Being in the military may slightly help your application to, say, TPS, however, if you haven't volunteered an hour in your life, you only have your gr. 12 or PF, you've been arrested, speak only one language, and the ONLY thing you've got going for you is military service, your shot at making it in LE isn't very high (in fact, you probably wouldn't have even made it into the CAF). If you're 50/50 with some of those criteria, you're probably an average candidate. However, if you speak both official languages, you have a degree, you have volunteered your whole life, never touched drugs, never been arrested, and you've got your military service, you'd probably be considered over someone who's done everything right and never served, because military service gives you very unique experiences that someone who doesn't, or has never served, would never be able to equal. As to MOC, I personally don't think that being an MP would be considered "better" than any other MOC. At the end of the day, you dedicated a part of your life to serving this country, and the experience gained in that, regardless of trade, would be a bonus to any aspiring LEO. That's just my  :2c:.


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## mariomike

MPHopeful13 said:
			
		

> Being in the military may slightly help your application to, say, TPS, however, if you haven't volunteered an hour in your life, <snip>



Worth noting for out-of-town candidates. 

Q: What volunteer experience would you recommend?

A: There is no volunteer experience which is deemed to be of greater value than the other. Therefore, candidates are encouraged to volunteer their time, in an unpaid fashion, with any of the legal organization within the city. (sic)
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/uni_faq.php#q32

TPS Auxiliary could be an option worth considering as an unpaid volunteer within the city.

Benefits:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/aux_benefits.php

"Experience gained as an Auxiliary volunteer will allow a prospective candidate for the regular service to determine his/her suitability for the position of police constable."


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## ForeverLearning

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> 3 years in an infantry battalion?  You won't get much credit for that.  Police will be looking for life experience over army stuff.



This is silly. Everything you do in life is in fact life experience. To say police will be looking for other things that the army is ridiculous (sure there are better experiences). The army shows determination and great experience in team work and a vast veriety of other useful skills that translate to police, and many other professions


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## Journeyman

ForeverLearning said:
			
		

> This is silly. Everything you do in life is in fact life experience. To say police will be looking for other things that the army is ridiculous (sure there are better experiences). The army shows determination and great experience in team work and a vast veriety of other useful skills that translate to police, and many other professions


Are you posting that as an expert on what three years in the infantry provides, or as an expert on police recruiting?


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## Bzzliteyr

I 





			
				ForeverLearning said:
			
		

> This is silly. Everything you do in life is in fact life experience. To say police will be looking for other things that the army is ridiculous (sure there are better experiences). The army shows determination and great experience in team work and a vast veriety of other useful skills that translate to police, and many other professions



I like your username.. keep learning.


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## x_para76

I'm not sure what Jump wings have to do with applying to the police. It's not really a transferable skill (unless you're applying to the S. African police) I'm sure there are other courses you could do as an infantryman such as comms that would be more useful.


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## brihard

ForeverLearning said:
			
		

> This is silly. Everything you do in life is in fact life experience. To say police will be looking for other things that the army is ridiculous (sure there are better experiences). The army shows determination and great experience in team work and a vast veriety of other useful skills that translate to police, and many other professions



Keep telling yourself that. The majority of people I worked with in the CF would never make good cops. It will generally many years before anything You do in the CF translates to value added for policing.

Let me be very clear: the police are NOT looking for army experience. They are looking for a broad array of competences, personality traits, and experiences- SOME of which you MAY enhance in the army. That also assumes that in those three years you don't injure yourself or get in shit, both of which are quite easy to do. There will be no shortage of fools and idiots surrounding you, and it can be easy to get drawn into fun that compromises a potential police career.

The army is NOT a shortcut to policing. Your time is better spent volunteering and getting an education if that is your goal. Some do make the leap successfully, but it tends not to be what they did in the military that seals the deal for them.


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## x_para76

Brihard said:
			
		

> Keep telling yourself that. The majority of people I worked with in the CF would never make good cops. It will generally many years before anything You do in the CF translates to value added for policing.
> 
> Let me be very clear: the police are NOT looking for army experience. They are looking for a broad array of competences, personality traits, and experiences- SOME of which you MAY enhance in the army. That also assumes that in those three years you don't injure yourself or get in crap, both of which are quite easy to do. There will be no shortage of fools and idiots surrounding you, and it can be easy to get drawn into fun that compromises a potential police career.
> 
> The army is NOT a shortcut to policing. Your time is better spent volunteering and getting an education if that is your goal. Some do make the leap successfully, but it tends not to be what they did in the military that seals the deal for them.



I reckon you could say the same about the majority of the population not just people in the CF with regards to their suitability for the police. If you wanna be a police officer you're likely gonna need to volunteer and complete some continuing education, and that remains true regardless of what your background is. I don't think it's fair to say that a 3 year degree makes you anymore suitable to be a police officer than does 3 years in the CF. It all comes down to how you're able to articulate yourself and your experiences when you go through the process. There are no shortcuts to becoming a police officer and everyone has to jump through the hoops regardless of where they've come from. I certainly agree that the police service isn't necessarily going to give you preference for military service, and each service may weigh it differently.


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## brihard

X_para76 said:
			
		

> I reckon you could say the same about the majority of the population not just people in the CF with regards to their suitability for the police. If you wanna be a police officer you're likely gonna need to volunteer and complete some continuing education, and that remains true regardless of what your background is. I don't think it's fair to say that a 3 year degree makes you anymore suitable to be a police officer than does 3 years in the CF. It all comes down to how you're able to articulate yourself and your experiences when you go through the process. There are no shortcuts to becoming a police officer and everyone has to jump through the hoops regardless of where they've come from. I certainly agree that the police service isn't necessarily going to give you preference for military service, and each service may weigh it differently.



I'd mostly agree- though I'd say that if one lacked education, three years in school would give a lot more value added for the police than one's first three years in the infantry as an NCM. An education of some sort is close to requisite these days. Some folks will still get in with just high school, but not many. One will pick up more transferable skills and applicable knowledge in the first three years of post secondary education than they likely will in their first three years in the combat arms.

Now, if someone's already got a degree or something, and it's a question of get some random Master's degree or do some time in the CF? The diminishing rate of return for education in initially getting into police might suggest some military service as more advantageous at that point... But more than anything it's going to be exactly as you said- how an applicant is able to articulate their skilsl and experiences, wherever they came from.

You're also bang on that the majority of the population aren't suited/competitive enough  to be police. The success rate for RCMP applicants, for instance, has been around 3.5-4% in the past calendar year from writing the initial test to getting through Depot.


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## mariomike

Regarding the subject, "What is the most I can gain in three years?"

Becoming a volunteer member of your local police ( if such programs exist with the service you hope to join ) could be a good use of spare time.

"Experience gained as an Auxiliary volunteer will allow a prospective candidate for the regular service to determine his/her suitability for the position of police constable."
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/112487/post-1264554.html#msg1264554

Candidates are only expected to "volunteer a minimum of 150 hours per year".

That leaves time available for a full-time career and other pursuits. 

Likewise, if you wish to become a professional firefighter, volunteering ( if they have "vollies" ) with your local fire department  might be worth considering, as ( depending on the collective agreement ) volunteers may receive hiring priority when full-time jobs become available.


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## Towards_the_gap

ForeverLearning said:
			
		

> This is silly. Everything you do in life is in fact life experience. To say police will be looking for other things that the army is ridiculous (sure there are better experiences). The army shows determination and great experience in team work and a vast veriety of other useful skills that translate to police, and many other professions



You're not even in yet. Discussion closed.


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## Phoenix80

Do city police officers have time to be CF 'reservists' at all? I am thinking of maybe becoming a police officer, if my CF application is going to take forever to be processed.


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## brihard

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Do city police officers have time to be CF 'reservists' at all? I am thinking of maybe becoming a police officer, if my CF application is going to take forever to be processed.



Yes, civilian police have time to serve as reservists generally. However, this assumes they are already in the reserves and trained. Once you're a police officer, not much of a chance you'll get the two straight months off necessary to become a trained member of the reserves. Basic training is time consuming and is a pursuit in and of itself.


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## mariomike

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Do city police officers have time to be CF 'reservists' at all?



Discussions you may find of interest.

Civilian Police Officers Joining Reserves  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87995.0.html

Reservists in the civilian police??  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65667.0/nowap.html


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## Phoenix80

Thank you. I have scheduled a preliminary meeting with a police service recruiter next week. Will have to ask him as well. But thanks again for posting those links.


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## mariomike

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Thank you. I have scheduled a preliminary meeting with a police service recruiter next week. Will have to ask him as well. But thanks again for posting those links.



You specifically mentioned city, so that would be to your advantage. Even if transferred to another station, you could still remain at the same armoury throughout your career.

Check with the police Recruiter, but whatever city you end up working for, I suspect their Military Leave Policy will be Corporate, rather than which Agency, Board, Commission, Department or Service you belong to.

According to the TPS website, they have "78 reservists and cadet instructors". That's out of a service of about 7,900 ( sworn and civilian ) members. 

If joining the Emergency Services, especially because of the nights and weekend work, it's best to complete your Pres BMQ and trade qualification before starting your full-time career with the city. 

That is especially important until off probation ( as an employee ).

You may also find it more profitable to work overtime and paid-duty, but that would be your personal choice.


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## Kat Stevens

It appears that being able to roll up a nice fatty is more relevant to RCMP service than military time.  So put the bong away and go old school, all you cop wannabees.    8)


----------



## x_para76

mariomike said:
			
		

> You specifically mentioned city, so that would be to your advantage. Even if transferred to another station, you could still remain at the same armoury throughout your career.
> 
> Check with the police Recruiter, but whatever city you end up working for, I suspect their Military Leave Policy will be Corporate, rather than which Agency, Board, Commission, Department or Service you belong to.
> 
> According to the TPS website, they have "78 reservists and cadet instructors". That's out of a service of about 7,900 ( sworn and civilian ) members.
> 
> If joining the Emergency Services, especially because of the nights and weekend work, it's best to complete your Pres BMQ and trade qualification before starting your full-time career with the city.
> 
> That is especially important until off probation ( as an employee ).
> 
> You may also find it more profitable to work overtime and paid-duty, but that would be your personal choice.



From my understanding each police services military leave policy will be dictated by their collective bargaining agreement. At least that's what dictates the OPP's and Correctional services so I'm presuming that would be true for municipal and federal services.


----------



## mariomike

X_para76 said:
			
		

> From my understanding each police services military leave policy will be dictated by their collective bargaining agreement. At least that's what dictates the OPP's and Correctional services so I'm presuming that would be true for municipal and federal services.



I'm not familiar with provincial or federal Military Leave policies, but this is the policy for the City of Toronto. ( Phoenix80 asked about city police, although he did not indicate _which_ city. )
http://wx.toronto.ca/intra/hr/policies.nsf/9fff29b7237299b385256729004b844b/58a35e5368beb69e852567bd006d7e4b?OpenDocument


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## Phoenix80

Thanks for those links. Sounds like something I could do until my time to join the CF comes.


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## mariomike

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Thanks for those links. Sounds like something I could do until my time to join the CF comes.



From what I have read, your plan is to become a city Police Officer, _and_ become a Reservist in your spare time?


> Do city police officers have time to be CF 'reservists' at all? I am thinking of maybe becoming a police officer, if my CF application is going to take forever to be processed.


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## Phoenix80

mariomike said:
			
		

> From what I have read, your plan is to become a city Police Officer, _and_ become a Reservist in your spare time?



I am considering that.


----------



## Container

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Thanks for those links. Sounds like something I could do until my time to join the CF comes.



I don't get this post. Are you saying that you are going to go through a year long application process with a four percent chance of being hired while you wait to join the forces?


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## Phoenix80

Container said:
			
		

> I don't get this post. Are you saying that you are going to go through a year long application process with a four percent chance of being hired while you wait to join the forces?


My bad. I should've explained better.

4% chance of being hired by my local police force? Why is that so low? The problem is that I am waiting to receive my Canadian citizenship and it may come any moment now. Don't know when but it will be some time in 2014. But given the long wait time to process one's background check during the CF application process (2 yrs), I decided I'd do a part time law enforcement duty here until everything is set. 
I hope this clarifies the issue.


----------



## brihard

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> My bad. I should've explained better.
> 
> 4% chance of being hired by my local police force? Why is that so low? The problem is that I am waiting to receive my Canadian citizenship and it may come any moment now. Don't know when but it will be some time in 2014. But given the long wait time to process one's background check during the CF application process (2 yrs), I decided I'd do a part time law enforcement duty here until everything is set.
> I hope this clarifies the issue.



Yes, hiring rates can be that low. When I applied for my municipal force, they took 12 people out of the 1300 of us in that cohort who applied. When I applied to my current force, I was one of about 350 people who got in during a year of 10,000+ applications.

It's a very good career with great pay and benefits, and a generally very interesting job. Lots of people want to do it, and so it's very competitive.


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## Phoenix80

Interesting. Thanks. Was that a big city police force, if I may ask?!


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## brihard

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> Interesting. Thanks. Was that a big city police force, if I may ask?!



This is pretty much common across forces at any level. Municipal, OPP / SQ, RCMP... All very hard to get into.


----------



## Container

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> My bad. I should've explained better.
> 
> 4% chance of being hired by my local police force? Why is that so low? The problem is that I am waiting to receive my Canadian citizenship and it may come any moment now. Don't know when but it will be some time in 2014. But given the long wait time to process one's background check during the CF application process (2 yrs), I decided I'd do a part time law enforcement duty here until everything is set.
> I hope this clarifies the issue.



I was just curious- you dont owe me an explanation. Just trying to follow- but yes police work is ridiculous competitive up here.


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## Phoenix80

Very interesting.... Thanks.


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## Container

I saw your posts regarding minor arrests and your app to the cf. that would affect your application to the police- your background check would include reaching out to the departments where you have lived.


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## Phoenix80

Container said:
			
		

> I saw your posts regarding minor arrests and your app to the cf. that would affect your application to the police- your background check would include reaching out to the departments where you have lived.


What do you mean? 
I've only lived in one city in Canada the whole time. I must add that the charges I'd mentioned, were related to a protest on a univ campus many years ago.


----------



## brihard

Phoenix80 said:
			
		

> What do you mean?
> I've only lived in one city in Canada the whole time. I must add that the charges I'd mentioned, were related to a protest on a univ campus many years ago.



They will come up anyway. Be prepared to explain yourself and why that behaviour no longer reflects on who you are.


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## Phoenix80

Yes, of course. I guess the path to glory goes through shame. I will be frank with them and myself.


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## Container

Disclosure of past sins is EVERYONEs awkward moment.

The interviewer will have done the same to his interviewer. We ve all been there.


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## Phoenix80

Container said:
			
		

> Disclosure of past sins is EVERYONEs awkward moment.
> 
> The interviewer will have done the same to his interviewer. We ve all been there.



I have no problem with that. However I thought once the records got destroyed, they won't be showing up in future background checks.


----------



## Container

No your criminal record is gone. Not the arrest report etc.

So when you cross the border,or apply for a job, or a police officer on the street runs your name, your criminal record is gone.

But the incident happened. So when a background check/investigation is completed it is possible it comes up. A neighbour or associate tells the investigator, an old teacher......when I did background checks all sorts of information came up.


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## Phoenix80

That's interesting. Though the recruiter told m yesterday that the federal govt is able to see everything. LMAO!


----------



## justin9

Hi,

I join medical technician regular force. After contract, which I believe is 5 years, I plan to join the community police services. Is this a good or bad idea? Please can I have some opinion or views on this career/life development?


Thank you


----------



## mariomike

justin9 said:
			
		

> I join medical technician regular force. After contract, which I believe is 5 years, I plan to join the community police services. Is this a good or bad idea? Please can I have some opinion or views on this career/life development?



See Reply #174.


----------



## justin9

Hey Sir Mariomike,

Yes #174 is me. I understand that joining the police service, all must start from the bottom. 

May I ask, did you serve in the military as medtech? 

Medical field and policing are two different responsibilities (quoting JesseWZ), and I am wondering if it is not a bad or good choice in any way. I want in the medtech trade and in military because it is what interests me and the experience. I also like the idea of being a police in the community. What do you think of this?

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

justin9 said:
			
		

> May I ask, did you serve in the military as medtech?



No, I was a Transport Operator ( MSE Op ) in the militia.


----------



## brihard

justin9 said:
			
		

> Hey Sir Mariomike,
> 
> Yes #174 is me. I understand that joining the police service, all must start from the bottom.
> 
> May I ask, did you serve in the military as medtech?
> 
> Medical field and policing are two different responsibilities (quoting JesseWZ), and I am wondering if it is not a bad or good choice in any way. I want in the medtech trade and in military because it is what interests me and the experience. I also like the idea of being a police in the community. What do you think of this?
> 
> Thanks



There's nothing wrong with your plan. The things the military can give you that are valuable to a police force don't depend much on your trade. You will not learn how to be a cop in the military unless you're an MP. The police don't expect you to already know how to be a cop when you join; they will teach you.

If you really want to do community policing, look at OPP or RCMP. Best chances of going to a small community with a handful of officers.


----------



## NovaScotianInfantry

I'm 21 years old and want to apply to be in the CF infantry, I was wondering if that could possibly lead to a career in the forces or if it could help me become an RCMP officer, Thank you.


----------



## mariomike

NovaScotianInfantry said:
			
		

> I'm 21 years old and want to apply to be in the CF infantry, I was wondering if that could possibly lead to a career in the forces or if it could help me become an RCMP officer, Thank you.




CF experience relevant to RCMP, civ policing? (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/32733.0
9 pages.


----------



## brihard

NovaScotianInfantry said:
			
		

> I'm 21 years old and want to apply to be in the CF infantry, I was wondering if that could possibly lead to a career in the forces or if it could help me become an RCMP officer, Thank you.



Yes, it can form part of the 'bigger picture' of you as a person that could lead to a successful RCMP application in some years. Most (but not all) of those Iv'e seen successfully joint he RCMP from the combat arms have been in for some years and have leadership experience. However military experience typically won't do the job on its own. Realistically not many people become mounties now without college or university education, and you'll need to show community involvement/volunteering too.

So it's a vague answer, but I can say with certainty that it's an accurate one.


----------



## mariomike

To the Original Poster,

The box on the lower right says, "60 per cent of them had more than high school education (ranging from certificates to graduate degrees)."
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/gazette/vol76no3/cover-dossier/recruit-recrute-eng.htm

Nothing about what percentage had CF experience. But it did say, "their average age was 29 years old."


----------

