# Re: Disbandment Not Shame



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sun, 02 Apr 2000 16:46:01 -0700*
With the possible exception of the Cdn Abn Regt: not true!!!
Consider all the units disbanded in 1920 and 1946.
John Hill wrote:
>   Disbandment also connotates shame suppositly.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Hill" <jhill66@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 07 Apr 2000 15:20:47 PDT*
Those Regiments were never for the most part disbanded, but placed on the 
inactive list.  Their were exceptions and decisions, for example the Royal 
Montreal Regiment was placed in the Militia.  While its sister regiment, The 
Victoria Rifles, was disbanded.  In this case because there were too many 
units in a geographical area.  No shame was attached, in fact the unit 
served honourably in WWI.
>From: Ian Edwards 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: Disbandment Not Shame
>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 16:46:01 -0700
>
>With the possible exception of the Cdn Abn Regt: not true!!!
>Consider all the units disbanded in 1920 and 1946.
>
>John Hill wrote:
> >   Disbandment also connotates shame suppositly.
>--------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:46:50 -0700*
To John Hill from Ian Edwards:
I‘m not sure if we are agreeing with each other or not. Perhaps the
question is rather moot. The facts ARE that the Victoria Rifles of
Canada were offically "reduced to nil strength" and "placed upon the
Supplementary Order of Battle List March 5, 1965." Nearly all of the
many 252 infantry battalions Mounted Rifles, etc. of WW1 were
actually, officially, disbanded in 1920 according to various General
Orders published that year.
I‘m not sure of your tense "the RMR was placed in the Militia".
Actually, the RMR began, officially, as the 58th Westmount Rifles in
1914 and in its present designation acquired in 1920 still going
strong. It has never had any connection with the Victoria Rifles, at
least on paper.
As to why certain regiments were disbanded in 1964/65 or 1968 almost all
bit the dust because they were either "rural" or didn‘t have any
significant WW2 overseas service or because there were too many units in
one location and someone had to go, usually the one with the least
significant service. There are exceptions for eg. 4PLDG, I would argue,
went while RdeHull nearby stayed - you can guess the reason for that
choice
I don‘t think there was any shame in any of them being disbanded call
it what you want. Clearly, the Cdn Abn Regt disbanded under a great
cloud - one can argue until the cows come home whether it was bound to
happen, Somalia or not. I‘ve nothing to add to that debate - all the
points have been made several times.
John Hill wrote:
> 
> Those Regiments were never for the most part disbanded, but placed on the
> inactive list.  Their were exceptions and decisions, for example the Royal
> Montreal Regiment was placed in the Militia.  While its sister regiment, The
> Victoria Rifles, was disbanded.  In this case because there were too many
> units in a geographical area.  No shame was attached, in fact the unit
> served honourably in WWI.
> 
> >From: Ian Edwards 
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >Subject: Re: Disbandment Not Shame
> >Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 16:46:01 -0700
> >
> >With the possible exception of the Cdn Abn Regt: not true!!!
> >Consider all the units disbanded in 1920 and 1946.
> >
> >John Hill wrote:
> > >   Disbandment also connotates shame suppositly.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> 
> ______________________________________________________
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> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Rhett <lawson@cclacbrome.qc.ca>* on *Sat, 08 Apr 2000 10:50:42 -0400*
Hello Ian and John
Just to let you know Ian that the reference to the RMR formation is in fact the
following:
The 14th Canadian Infantry Battalion, later designated by special warrant as the
"Royal Montreal Regiment", was quickly raised in September 1914.  The RMR
Battalion was formed from cadres coy strength presented by three Montreal
Regiments the 1st Regiment Canadian Grenadier Guards, the 3rd Regiment Victoria
Rifles of Canada and the 65th Regiment Les Carabiniers MontRoyal later to be
known as the Fusiliars de MontRoyal.  The Minister of Militia and Defence ordered
the amalgamation to expedite the departure of the 1st Canadian Contingent to
Europe.  The 14th Battalion became one of four units comprising the 3rd Infantry
Brigade.
After demobilization and the reorganization of the Canadian Militia, the 14th
Canadian Battalion Royal Montreal Regiment C.E.F. and the 58th Westmount Rifles
were amalgamated into one unit - The Royal Montreal Regiment on July 2, 1920.
The RMR proudly displays its origins in the armoury and its association with the
Vics, CGG, and the FMR as well as with the 58th and the 23rd Bns.
And that‘s the way it was.
Rhett Lawson
former RMR SunRay
Ian Edwards wrote:
> To John Hill from Ian Edwards:
>
> I‘m not sure if we are agreeing with each other or not. Perhaps the
> question is rather moot. The facts ARE that the Victoria Rifles of
> Canada were offically "reduced to nil strength" and "placed upon the
> Supplementary Order of Battle List March 5, 1965." Nearly all of the
> many 252 infantry battalions Mounted Rifles, etc. of WW1 were
> actually, officially, disbanded in 1920 according to various General
> Orders published that year.
>
> I‘m not sure of your tense "the RMR was placed in the Militia".
> Actually, the RMR began, officially, as the 58th Westmount Rifles in
> 1914 and in its present designation acquired in 1920 still going
> strong. It has never had any connection with the Victoria Rifles, at
> least on paper.
>
> As to why certain regiments were disbanded in 1964/65 or 1968 almost all
> bit the dust because they were either "rural" or didn‘t have any
> significant WW2 overseas service or because there were too many units in
> one location and someone had to go, usually the one with the least
> significant service. There are exceptions for eg. 4PLDG, I would argue,
> went while RdeHull nearby stayed - you can guess the reason for that
> choice
>
> I don‘t think there was any shame in any of them being disbanded call
> it what you want. Clearly, the Cdn Abn Regt disbanded under a great
> cloud - one can argue until the cows come home whether it was bound to
> happen, Somalia or not. I‘ve nothing to add to that debate - all the
> points have been made several times.
>
> John Hill wrote:
> >
> > Those Regiments were never for the most part disbanded, but placed on the
> > inactive list.  Their were exceptions and decisions, for example the Royal
> > Montreal Regiment was placed in the Militia.  While its sister regiment, The
> > Victoria Rifles, was disbanded.  In this case because there were too many
> > units in a geographical area.  No shame was attached, in fact the unit
> > served honourably in WWI.
> >
> > >From: Ian Edwards 
> > >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > >Subject: Re: Disbandment Not Shame
> > >Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 16:46:01 -0700
> > >
> > >With the possible exception of the Cdn Abn Regt: not true!!!
> > >Consider all the units disbanded in 1920 and 1946.
> > >
> > >John Hill wrote:
> > > >   Disbandment also connotates shame suppositly.
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > >message body.
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Hill" <jhill66@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Sat, 08 Apr 2000 11:43:27 PDT*
I think that we ARE agreeing.  To be disbanded as a regiment is not a form 
of shame unless the powers that be try to make such.  The ambiguity that the 
politico‘s use at the time of the Airborne Regiments‘ demise was meant to 
mean this as a sop to those who were finger pointing.  What can you say, 
politicians, is there any lower form of life.
>I‘m not sure if we are agreeing with each other or not. Perhaps the
>question is rather moot. The facts ARE that the Victoria Rifles of
>Canada were offically "reduced to nil strength" and "placed upon the
>Supplementary Order of Battle List March 5, 1965." Nearly all of the
>many 252 infantry battalions Mounted Rifles, etc. of WW1 were
>actually, officially, disbanded in 1920 according to various General
>Orders published that year.
>
>I‘m not sure of your tense "the RMR was placed in the Militia".
>Actually, the RMR began, officially, as the 58th Westmount Rifles in
>1914 and in its present designation acquired in 1920 still going
>strong. It has never had any connection with the Victoria Rifles, at
>least on paper.
If you look at the history of the Regiment I‘ll admit that my connection 
with the RMR was in the 60‘s and my memory could be fuzzy on the facts here. 
  But what can I say,  I was only a lowly Pte. Then I believe that during 
WWI the Victoria Rifles accepted status as a replacement battalion which was 
broken up for replacements upon reaching the UK.  After the war they defered 
to the RMR for status as the Militia regiment for the Westmount area and the 
personnel.  remaining were absorbed into the RMR.  Please correct me if I am 
wrong here.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Hill" <jhill66@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Sat, 08 Apr 2000 11:45:14 PDT*
Thanks for the clarifacation.
>From: Rhett 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: Disbandment Not Shame
>Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 10:50:42 -0400
>
>Hello Ian and John
>
>Just to let you know Ian that the reference to the RMR formation is in fact 
>the
>following:
>
>The 14th Canadian Infantry Battalion, later designated by special warrant 
>as the
>"Royal Montreal Regiment", was quickly raised in September 1914.  The RMR
>Battalion was formed from cadres coy strength presented by three Montreal
>Regiments the 1st Regiment Canadian Grenadier Guards, the 3rd Regiment 
>Victoria
>Rifles of Canada and the 65th Regiment Les Carabiniers MontRoyal later to 
>be
>known as the Fusiliars de MontRoyal.  The Minister of Militia and Defence 
>ordered
>the amalgamation to expedite the departure of the 1st Canadian Contingent 
>to
>Europe.  The 14th Battalion became one of four units comprising the 3rd 
>Infantry
>Brigade.
>
>After demobilization and the reorganization of the Canadian Militia, the 
>14th
>Canadian Battalion Royal Montreal Regiment C.E.F. and the 58th Westmount 
>Rifles
>were amalgamated into one unit - The Royal Montreal Regiment on July 2, 
>1920.
>
>The RMR proudly displays its origins in the armoury and its association 
>with the
>Vics, CGG, and the FMR as well as with the 58th and the 23rd Bns.
>
>And that‘s the way it was.
>
>Rhett Lawson
>former RMR SunRay
>
>Ian Edwards wrote:
>
> > To John Hill from Ian Edwards:
> >
> > I‘m not sure if we are agreeing with each other or not. Perhaps the
> > question is rather moot. The facts ARE that the Victoria Rifles of
> > Canada were offically "reduced to nil strength" and "placed upon the
> > Supplementary Order of Battle List March 5, 1965." Nearly all of the
> > many 252 infantry battalions Mounted Rifles, etc. of WW1 were
> > actually, officially, disbanded in 1920 according to various General
> > Orders published that year.
> >
> > I‘m not sure of your tense "the RMR was placed in the Militia".
> > Actually, the RMR began, officially, as the 58th Westmount Rifles in
> > 1914 and in its present designation acquired in 1920 still going
> > strong. It has never had any connection with the Victoria Rifles, at
> > least on paper.
> >
> > As to why certain regiments were disbanded in 1964/65 or 1968 almost all
> > bit the dust because they were either "rural" or didn‘t have any
> > significant WW2 overseas service or because there were too many units in
> > one location and someone had to go, usually the one with the least
> > significant service. There are exceptions for eg. 4PLDG, I would argue,
> > went while RdeHull nearby stayed - you can guess the reason for that
> > choice
> >
> > I don‘t think there was any shame in any of them being disbanded call
> > it what you want. Clearly, the Cdn Abn Regt disbanded under a great
> > cloud - one can argue until the cows come home whether it was bound to
> > happen, Somalia or not. I‘ve nothing to add to that debate - all the
> > points have been made several times.
> >
> > John Hill wrote:
> > >
> > > Those Regiments were never for the most part disbanded, but placed on 
>the
> > > inactive list.  Their were exceptions and decisions, for example the 
>Royal
> > > Montreal Regiment was placed in the Militia.  While its sister 
>regiment, The
> > > Victoria Rifles, was disbanded.  In this case because there were too 
>many
> > > units in a geographical area.  No shame was attached, in fact the unit
> > > served honourably in WWI.
> > >
> > > >From: Ian Edwards 
> > > >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > > >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > > >Subject: Re: Disbandment Not Shame
> > > >Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 16:46:01 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With the possible exception of the Cdn Abn Regt: not true!!!
> > > >Consider all the units disbanded in 1920 and 1946.
> > > >
> > > >John Hill wrote:
> > > > >   Disbandment also connotates shame suppositly.
> > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > >message body.
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
>
>
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