# Performance Oriented Electronic Training (POET)



## cgyflames01

I was looking at the trades I qualified for after taking my CFAT, and I noticed one of the trads is POET, moc #490. I cant find any information on this trade at all. Is it worth looking at??


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## greener

I think POET is the advanced electronics course that is part of some electronic and communications occupations. LCIS and ATIS for sure.


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## OLD F of S

POET 490 is a foundation course for a mulitude of trades both Air and Land as 
most tech trades require a basic understanding of electronics. I was a POET instructor and later 
a Standards writer for the course.



                            Regards OLD F of S


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## wern32

Im going to start my POET training soon and Im trying to find out what the day to day routine is going to be like.  
In total Im going to be in Kingston for about a yr and a half and Im trying to find out if I can live off.  Ive been told that If you live in SQ, there's usually 4 to a room.  One of the LCIS in my unit now did it 8 yrs ago and said that he had to live on for a while but once the crse was in a steady routine they could move off but would still have to maintain a bed space in single quarters.

Any recent grads?


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## lostlittle1

you do not have to keep a bed space in the shacks if you have other places to live.  you can request to have your own place, it make take a month or more to get a memo approved but it happens all the time.  Mind you its expensive in comparison with R&Q.  

The routine for Poet is pretty simple.  you are marched off at 07:45.  In class for 08:00.  Frequent breaks, 2 admin days per week at which you are dismissed @ 10:30 and arrive in class for 13:00.  You have lots of time to stay after to get extra help if needed, you have a building set aside @ night for study hall (if you are not on compulsory study for 1 hour a night for getting less than 70% you can still go because it's really quiet and a great place to study.)  There is also Queens Univ  Down the road, the library is great for study time too.  You are done classes anywhere from 14:30 to 17:00 depending on the PO you are on.  If you are not in class your time is your own.  Most Fridays are parade days.  In the morning you have to either observe Grad parades participate in one or just have a practice parade.  The staff is EXCELLENT.  The instructors are for the most part EXCELLENT too. PT 1x per week as that is the only time they can get the RMC Gym to give them time for us. 

The shacks do get noisy so don't plan on studying there too often if thats where you live.  There are also station job allotments (weekly) and take you all of 5 minutes to 30 minutes to do.  

Have fun in POET.  Try to request to live out of quarters ASAP when you arrive.


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## wern32

How many people to a room?


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## 291er

If they're still in BB6 in Kingston, it's usually 4 to a room


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## lostlittle1

yes it's still BB6 ;D


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## 227representin

Hi everyone.   I finished the POET / LCIS last summer.   BB6 is still the residence / march off point.   If you can - GET THE HELL OUT OF SHACKS.   Too noisy to study, station jobs to clean up after the "children", room inspections - you can do without the additional *C*ourse *O*bjectives and *C*areer *K*nowledge.   You will be busy enough

Now that you are out of Shacks - use the time to study.   There is always on guy on your course who does math effortlessly.   Don't be afraid to approach them - pick their brain.   A lot of time, its not the material that is difficult, its the delivery of the material.   Some of the civy - contracted Callian instructors are really good, and will help you out every chance.   Others, well lets just say - have the instructional skills of a potted plant.   You'll will recognize them right away.   Really poor whiteboard work, read directly from the book, and no elaboration.

Good luck and take care.

If you do NOT understand a concept, do not be afraid to keep asking the same question until someone can put the answer in a manner that you can comprehend.   There is a lot to be said about   laymens terms.


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## KaptKain

I am here now in good Ol'BB6 on POET. Been here since early Jan. What the guys say above is pretty accurate. From the instructors being gods of powerpoint to the 5min weekly duties.
This course is not a walk in the park academically. Unless you are a natural at math and understanding concepts thrown at you day by day at the rate of 3 per hour minimum. Have an "open" mind to envelope the info and then study it in evening or weekend.
The shacks are not the best place to stay if you are "mature" and finished with the party days. It does stay loud at times. BUT, this is the best base I have stayed on yet for any course. The course staff are dedicated and will help you anyway they can.

The only points not mentioned above are:
-Every Wednesday is a closed locker room inspection with boots on the bed. There is the occasional Barracks open locker inspection. Not that often though.
-PT is more then once a week (Mon, Wed, Fri..wait parade drill is considered PT Friday . Winter maybe not that often due to the weather. But summer jogs in the morning at least 3 times a week (We were told that from course staff)


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## dardt

This question concerns a transfer to AVS tech.

According to the DND recruiting site POET is the next course following BMQ for AVS techs.

Assuming one wants to OT to that trade what are the educational requirements (other than High school) if any ?

My previous information stated one had to have previous educational equivalent to POET before getting a transfer. Is that correct ? Is there any difference in the requirements between direct entry and OT.

Thank-you


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## NiTz

Ì'm on POET right now, and I know some people that remastered to AVS, ATIS, LCIS, FCS, etc. and they had to do poet. One was an engineer and remastered as an AVS tech, so he had to do POET before his 3's. I don't think this guy had any electronics background and he didn't do any other course before POET so I assume that you don't need any equivalent to POET as you will do this course anyway.

Cheers, good luck!


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## Bald Eagle

I can't seem to find it here but does anyone know when is the next POET course in Kingston running?
Or if anyone can give me a link?

Thanks,
Bald Eagle


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## 211RadOp

The next course starts 15 Nov. The following course starts 3 Jan 07. If you have access to the DIN, CFSCE is located at http://cfsce.kingston.mil.ca/  I don't know if that is an internet address or an intranet address.


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## Bald Eagle

Sweet. 

Thanks


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## Radop

211RadOp said:
			
		

> The next course starts 15 Nov. The following course starts 3 Jan 07. If you have access to the DIN, CFSCE is located at http://cfsce.kingston.mil.ca/  I don't know if that is an internet address or an intranet address.



Just to let you know, that is an 'intranet address' as the DIN is an intranet.


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## impedo

if we do not have the DIN how do we get access to it?


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## Sig_Des

impedo said:
			
		

> if we do not have the DIN how do we get access to it?



You don't. Or you ask your CoC


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## impedo

lol okay, ty i shall rectify that immediatly


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## 211RadOp

Radop said:
			
		

> Just to let you know, that is an 'intranet address' as the DIN is an intranet.



RadOp,

I am fully aware that the DIN is Intranet. I wasn't sure if the CFSCE website was an internet or intranet address as I have never tried to access it from home.


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## adaminc

I was wondering if anyone here would know if it is possible to find out what courses/subjects, and possibly get course/subject outlines, are taken when doing POET? I already have a diploma in Electronics so I will be skipping it, but I would like to know what I am skipping because there might be a subject that I do not know enough about, or maybe I should brush up on.

Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks.


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## gaspasser

IIRC, POET is a highly condenced version of what you took in college or university or trade school...just time compressed to 6 months.  And a very high failure rate...  :-[   From what I've heard from techs, they haven't really used POET stuff since..  :blotto:
Hope this answered your question.    :


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## Eye In The Sky

I'll post the contents of the POET crse tomorrow when I am at work for you.


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## Occam

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> IIRC, POET is a highly condenced version of what you took in college or university or trade school...just time compressed to 6 months.  And a very high failure rate...  :-[   From what I've heard from techs, they haven't really used POET stuff since..  :blotto:
> Hope this answered your question.    :



POET is not anywhere remotely equivalent to what is offered in college.  It's not just time condensed, it's content condensed as well - which is why POET isn't recognized by any of the provincial licensing bodies as sufficient training for certification as a Certified Electronics Engineering Technician (CTech).

In a nutshell, POET is basic electronics theory, AC/DC fundamentals, semiconductors, servos and synchros, etc.  If you're already certified (or able to be certified) by one of the provincial licensing bodies for CTech/CET, then there's absolutely nothing that you've missed by bypassing POET.


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## combatbuddha

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> IIRC, POET is a highly condenced version of what you took in college or university or trade school...just time compressed to 6 months.  And a very high failure rate...  :-[   From what I've heard from techs, they haven't really used POET stuff since..  :blotto:
> Hope this answered your question.    :


Don't know what trade of techs you are referring. The techs I know and work with in the EO world use it alot more than you'd think. Mostly Ohms law, and some solid state and digital theory.


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## Eye In The Sky

Ok, from the CFSCE (Canadian Forces School of Communications and Electronics) Intranet/DIN site for the POET Course:

PO 001 - Perform Electronic Workshop Practices. This PO focuses on connecting electrical wires and cables; installing components on terminal boards; removing components on terminal boards; performing user maintenance on soldering equipment; maintaining a safe working environment; performing user maintenance on personal tools/tool kits, basic workshop tools, and equipment; and operating Personal Computers (PCs) to access publications, manuals, and references. 

PO 002 - Verify the Operation of Direct Current (DC) Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on multi-meters; analyzing electronic DC components and circuits; and testing electronic DC components and circuits. 

PO 003 - Verify the Operation of Alternating Current (AC) Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on oscilloscopes and signal generators; analyzing electronic AC components and circuits; and testing electronic AC components and circuits. 

PO 004 - Isolate Faults in Electro-Mechanical Devices. This PO focuses on isolating faults on electrical motors; isolating faults in synchro systems; and isolating faults in servo systems. 

PO 005 - Verify the Operation of Solid State Devices. This PO focuses on analyzing the following solid state devices: diodes, transistors, U nijunction Transistors (UJTs), thyristors, Field Effect Transistors (FETs), Silicon Controlled Rectifiers (SCRs), transducers, thermistors, photoresistors, Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs), and photo-transistors; and testing the following solid state devices: diodes, transistors, U nijunction Transistors (UJTs), thyristors, Field Effect Transistors (FETs), Silicon Controlled Rectifiers (SCRs).

PO 006 - Isolate Faults in Power Supply Circuits. This PO focuses on analyzing and testing the following power supply circuits: converters, rectifiers, filters, regulators and transformers. 

PO 007 - Isolate Faults in Amplifier Circuits. This PO focuses on analyzing and testing multistage amplifiers: common emitter, common collector, and common base; and analyzing and testing amplifier circuits: phase splitters, push pull amplifiers, complementary power amplifiers, Darlington Pairs, FET amplifiers, and Operational Amplifiers (Op Amp). 

PO 008 - Isolate Faults in Oscillator Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on frequency counters and pulse generators; analyzing and testing oscillators: Series Fed Hartley, Shunt Fed Colpits Fet, Wein-Bridge, Crystal and Voltage Controlled; and analyzing and testing multi-vibrator circuits: bi-stable, mono-stable, astable, Schmitt trigger and 555 timer. 

PO 009 - Isolate Faults in Multistage Electronic Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on wattmeters; analyzing multistage electronic circuits; and testing multistage electronic circuits. 

PO 010 - Isolate Faults in Digital Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on logic probes and logic analyzers; analyzing digital gates; analyzing digital circuits; and testing digital circuits. 

PO 011 - Isolate Faults in Amplitude Modulation (AM) Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on spectrum analyzer and dummy load; analyzing AM, SSB circuits, and transmission medium; and testing AM and SSB circuits. 

PO 012 - Isolate Faults in Frequency Modulation (FM) Circuits. This PO focuses on performing user maintenance on deviation meter; analyzing Fm circuits and transmission media; and testing FM circuits. 

Length of Course: 119 Training days.

*for the most part, the POs are taught over a 2 week period, 1 subject at a time.


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## adaminc

Thank you Eye In The Sky, I think I am more than proficient in all those subjects. But this at least will give me an idea on some things I can read up on if I ever feel the need.


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## Eye In The Sky

adaminc said:
			
		

> Thank you Eye In The Sky, I think I am more than proficient in all those subjects. But this at least will give me an idea on some things I can read up on if I ever feel the need.



I'm just a messenger....good luck with your career!  I hope you like the equipment course and the C & E life...


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## gaspasser

...Have a Greeaat CFSCE Day!!!        8)
That's all I remember these days...luckily I got back into my old trade!


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## 211RadOp

combatbuddha said:
			
		

> Don't know what trade of techs you are referring. The techs I know and work with in the EO world use it alot more than you'd think. Mostly Ohms law, and some solid state and digital theory.



Buddha,

POET isn't a trade. It's  Performance Orientated Electronics Training. When they first started it, IIRC, depending on how you did, you were shuffled into one of the (at that time) many C & E Tech trades (Rad Tech, Tel Tech, TE Tech, etc). Now, alot of different trades use it as a stepping stone prior to going on QL3 (ATIS, LCIS, EGS, etc).


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## combatbuddha

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Buddha,
> 
> POET isn't a trade. It's  Performance Orientated Electronics Training. When they first started it, IIRC, depending on how you did, you were shuffled into one of the (at that time) many C & E Tech trades (Rad Tech, Tel Tech, TE Tech, etc). Now, alot of different trades use it as a stepping stone prior to going on QL3 (ATIS, LCIS, EGS, etc).



Duh. I took it, and the reply was to the other fella who stated that techs who took POET hadn't used it much since they completed the course.
Thank-you Mr non POET taking Rad Op, but you are also incorrect. To my knowledge EGS does not take POET. (EO used to be FCS takes POET)
I took Poet back when tubes was still being taught, when LCIS where actually Radio Techs (not parts changers), the airforce had 4 elelctronics trades (IE, IS, CRS and AWS) and the first trade you joined for FCS (now EO) was ELM. 
 I use my poet knowledge in my job daily. Some days I use it more than others.
Thank-you for the input, you can go back to sleep now.


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## 211RadOp

I stand corrected. I miss read your response. The way I read it was that you thought POET was a trade. My mistake.


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## combatbuddha

No worries Dude,


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## aerobat

I will be starting my POET course in kingston on nov 27. Just wondering how this course is. I have heard that it is the hardest part of the AVS course. Any input? Also how are they about the rooms, it is pretty good a CFSATE PAT platoon, I have a nice tv and computer. Just wondring if I should bother bringin' them, to kingston? They more picky on the room layouts etc?


Thanks for any info.....


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## gaspasser

I suggest you search this subject first, there is a ton of info on this site about POET.  I did mine back in 05, incomplete and happy for it!  The rooms are  4 per, bring your own computer and TV, you'll need permission to hook them up but it's pretty quick.  The city of Kingston is great, take time to go exploring and seeing the sights, not just the cuties at Queen's!  POET is the most difficult academic course in the military and you need to have an aptitude for electronics or the brains to learn FAST.  It is a very fast paced course, so be awake and don't show up hungover!  like some dipshit did on my course.  
Hope that helped some.
BYTD


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## RTaylor

Hmmmm...I graduate on Thursday Nov 20, hit Borden on Nov 21, think that the course is full up or that I'll be sent to Kingston for POET?


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## Eye In The Sky

A POET crse starts evey 2 weeks at CFSCE.  You could be waiting a while for your POET, depending on the current backlog of people waiting in PRETC and CFSATE.  Being positive, as AVS you should be at CFSATE PAT platoon vice PRETC.


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## RTaylor

I may have to take compassionate care leave, my son is having issues so it might take a bit to go home and clear up (he's pooping blood alot). Going to see if I can get a OJT in Greenwood while the problem gets sorted out. Hopefully they can accomodate me.


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## RTaylor

Hey all,

Been a while since Ive been here but Ive had a few questions floating around. 

Im heading to POET on March 5th and Ive been wondering if there is a March Break there. When I was in Greenwood on OJT they told me to burn all my leave because it was useless in Kingston. Any leave for such periods like March Break and Summer Leave were under Special Academic Leave.

Then I heard that March Break is from March 13 to the 22nd or so.

Does Kingston students get a March (Spring) Break or was it all a bunch of phooey?


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## kincanucks

Seeing some of the administration coming out of CFSCE I wouldn't be surprised but contact CFSCE and make sure you are not bringing a shit load of leave with you with only two months left in the fiscal year.  March break in Ontario is the second week of March.


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## RTaylor

So students in Kingston doing POET get March Break?


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## kincanucks

RTaylor said:
			
		

> So students in Kingston doing POET get March Break?



I didn't say that.  Contact CFSCE for the best information.  Did you get joining instructions as it might tell you in there?


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## Journeyman

Or, if you prefer your information from anonymous posters online, rather than _actually_ contacting the school......

Yes, the Base and Schools do close for March Break. During that time, however, the students continue being employed making toys for the red-suited overlord. 

Glad I could help


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## PMedMoe

Remember the days when if students didn't have enough leave to cover the school closure period they worked in the kitchen (or elsewhere)?  >


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## RTaylor

Im here in Kingston now taking POET. WoW what a course, fast and intense with all the C.O.C.K. trimmings the army has to offer.

Only advice I have to give is don't join AVS thinking it's a free ride to a spec pay job.

And March Break was awesome!


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## Sorcerer-tech

thanks in advance


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## bigabe

I'm sure theres several people that have taken POET and could likely answer most of your questions.  Chances are outstanding you're not the first person to ask.  Unless its something weird and personal, in which case - yes, large antique trunks full of bondage gear and pictures of kittens are acceptable as long as they fit under your bed.  Enjoy BMQ.  Out of curiosity, how come you have to do it over again?


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## gaspasser

Take it from someone who didn't make POET and was able to come back to his original trade...I flubbed out at syncro-servo and then amps in the second round.

Study-study...learn-learn...don't piss of the DS!  
Oh, make sure you have a knack for electronics..... ^-^


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## bigabe

Its also constantly changing.  Not sure when you did poet, but its gone over about 3 revamps lately.  Each time shortening, and lessening the load on students (IMO). 

Also, Syncro-Servo doesn't even exist anymore according to my 'man on the inside' 

It's just sort of a generic couple of days of EMD theory.

POET seems to be more of a mixed bag depending on overall atmosphere more than individual aptitude.  While at times there are people who bombed out, the same people would more likely have been "taught" a little more with different instructors at different POs.  I mean, I had a mid to high 90s average the whole time and STILL managed to get on academic mandatory study group occasionally.  Whereas some people flunked, got their 24 hours, then flunked again with little tutorship.  

Also, bag drive DS made it a lot harder for some than others who had relaxed staff.  As with everything though, the 2 former examples of each scenario are happening less and less.  You are more likely to have relaxed staff and intense tutoring than ever.  The trade can't afford to lose you.


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## guthix732

I apologize in advance if this is in location or if it has already been asked.  I did attempt a search for well over an hour, but couldn't get a clear answer.

I was wondering if there is a Graduation Parade or anything of the sort upon completing the POET course?


Thanks.  :nod:


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## bigabe

You bet... and when I was there, you're either on one or spectating one about every 2-3 weeks or so for all the other poet courses.  This usually entails 2 morning drill practices, then the real deal.  

PARADE oriented Electronics Training.


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## REDinstaller

It hasn't changed since I was on POET 93-94.


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## guthix732

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.


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## paratoavs

Hi there,
I am a currently doing an occupational transfer from infantry to AVS.  I know its a huge leap but I find I am good in the electronic world and would like to pursue a career in it.  Anyways I have three months before my course starts in borden and since I have been out of the school game for quite a bit I was wondering if anybody could recomend and books or maybe subjects to focus on to help prepare me for this course.  Any info is greatly appreciated.


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## OkanaganHeat

First you are going to want to brush up on math, there can be quite a bit involved when dealing with all of the theory. If you get into AM and FM you will want to have an idea of how trigonometry works especially with respect to sine waves and their characteristics. You may also want to get books on electronic and electric theory. You will have modules for DC, AC, Oscillators, and many other pieces of core knowledge.  I had taken POET out of high school with limited electronic knowledge and the pace of the information is fast but doable. Unfortunately all of the books I have are from when I took an Electronic Engineering Technology diploma program.


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## gaspasser

Brush up on math, lots of math.
Read everything you can on electronics theory, AC/DC (not the band!) AM/FM, syncro-servo, AMPLIFIERS~~~that seems to be the wall.
Take it from me who was unsuccessful in completing the course twice.  Usually, if you can get thru Amps, the rest is downhill.
Oh, and if you're still working on base, visit or get some OJT at WTIS or the COMM Sqdn, or hanger....talk to any Jimmy about POET...it's a 2 year college course squeezed into a six month time frame complete with military inspections and parades!!!
Have fun and good luck with that...probably see you over here in 10 hanger <<if it still stands>>
 :blotto:


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## Occam

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> talk to any Jimmy about POET...it's a 2 year college course squeezed into a six month time frame complete with military inspections and parades!!!



Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration.  There is an awful lot of material that a C.Tech does during their two year college program that POET doesn't even touch, or doesn't cover in the same amount of depth.  It's still a difficult course, though, requiring a lot of effort.


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## gaspasser

Thanks for the correction Occam, I know there is a ton of info to cram into little heads in little time.  My favourite saying was >>"welcome to PO 40?, Syncro-servo...we are 2 days behind schedule!!! so listen up"  
How can you compete with that type of intelligence???  And scheduling???
Regards, BYTD


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## Task

IMO I would concentrate on math, specifically Trig. Maybe dabble a bit in boolean algebra (It is difficult to grasp for some <me>) so the learning curve will not be as sharp. Math will be involved in every PO from POET to the completion of your QL3.


As for reading electronics ahead of time I would not "study" it but use it as general info to peak your own interest. The material changes from PO to PO and so does it's depth so trying to figure out what will be required will be difficult ahead of time. But math is guaranteed.


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## Kat Stevens

I would concentrate on the sonnets.  also get a good understanding of iambic pentameter, along with rhythm and rhyme.  At least a basic familiarity of haiku structure is adviseable.


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## observor 69

Jeez guys ratch it down a notch will ya.
As an ex POET instructor I don't remember it as being that difficult. A good grade twelve level math is more than adequate for the course.
As for studying extra stuff perhaps reading general electronic material wouldn't hurt, but remember the course is there to teach you that stuff.
I think the biggest thing when you start on course is getting back in the academic grove. Just as some trades exercise and develop your physical skills POET and similar courses require you to exercise your mental strength.
So on that theme any general reading up on POET topic will help familiarize you with the topic and get you into thinking along academic lines.
Bottom line the military wants you to be a success at this course. If you put a good effort in most people can and do pass. 
Of course only to go onto trades training requiring more studying.  ;D
Oh ya I just remembered, before I was an instructor I taught a POET prep package that reviewed math. Perhaps some electronics techs can give you a lead on where to find such an item.
I remustered to Avionics and enjoyed the job and the people.


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## Occam

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> At least a basic familiarity of haiku structure is adviseable.



_Remember Ohm's Law
I equals E over R
P equals EI_

That's as good as electronics haiku gets...   8)


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## REDinstaller

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> As an ex POET instructor I don't remember it as being that difficult.



I don't remember my instructors being all that knowledgeable when the instructors notes weren't available. insulting the students intelligence by reading out loud from the students handbook for Solid State was a pathetic attempt at instruction. POET can be quite difficult if you spend too much time not learning the theory. The biggest thing to work on is learning how the formulas work. Once you start to understand them, remembering them becomes much easier.


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## observor 69

Tango18A said:
			
		

> I don't remember my instructors being all that knowledgeable when the instructors notes weren't available. insulting the students intelligence by reading out loud from the students handbook for Solid State was a pathetic attempt at instruction. POET can be quite difficult if you spend too much time not learning the theory. The biggest thing to work on is learning how the formulas work. Once you start to understand them, remembering them becomes much easier.



Tango18A believe me as a CT to electronics, similar to you I believe, my post was in the context of the previous comments in the tread that were, I thought, over the top and possibly making POET out to be more difficult than I feel it is.
A smart determined individual can find POET challenging but a challenge most of us are quit capable of mastering.


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## REDinstaller

As long as you keep the drinking to the night after the POs. As I'm sure we both did.


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## paratoavs

Thanks for your responses.  They have given me some comfort in preparing for this course.  Today I picked up a Physics review book that focuses on AC/DC material as well as a trig for dummies book that will help me remember what I use to know from highschool.  Again thanks


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## vignes

NO more Parade  in POET any more...

WHY? New CO


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## REDinstaller

Nope, I bet that it has more to do with CTC trying to bring the course under 100 training days.


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## Fizzik

I have a question in regard to completion of my POET course and currently on the ACISS DP1.0. What does POET become equivalent too towards the sub-occ CST and what am I able to bypass or skip some of? If any at all?


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## MikeL

I would assume that POET would not let you bypass/skip anything on ACISS DP1.  DP1 AFAIK trains you to be a very basic basic level Rad Op, and that is not taught on POET.


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## Fizzik

That is not entirely what I meant.. I meant training after the DP1.0 towards CST. Original post was poorly worded.


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## MikeL

Fizzik said:
			
		

> That is not entirely what I meant.. I meant prior training after the DP1.0 towards CST.



You phrased that weird.. do you mean what does POET do for you after you have completed DP1 and await your CST training?  Not to be a dick, but you tell us once you are done everything. ACISS is brand new, and a lot of the finer details are still being worked up.  Plus you are at CFSCE right now, have you talked to your course staff about it? I don't know the TP for CST, someone else may or have more info on it.

Seriously though, when you are out of the training system, post up a small write up on the new training system and how it is working out for all the new people coming straight into ACISS.


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## Fizzik

I've tried asking but nobody seems to know. Just thought maybe I, could try my luck here. I thought there would be no harm in trying. Since there seems to be a broader view on the trades and ACISS on the forums.


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## PuckChaser

Its called FET = Fundamental Electronics Training. I believe its shorter than the original, but not by much.


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## Fizzik

Do you know if it is considered the CSS 1.1 or is that part of the CST2.1 training?


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## meni0n

It is confusing since it's not in the training schedule. I can't remember is it was CST 1.0 or 1.1 that is more than 100 days so perhaps it's included in one of those course?


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## PuckChaser

1.0 courses are ACISS Core training, and common to all subtrades. CST 1.1 is your sub-moc training and should include FET.


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## meni0n

You're right I just looked at the Calendar. CST 1.1 is 39 days and 2.1 is 140 so I would venture a guess that POET  is included in 2.1 .


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## Fizzik

Alright. Thanks guys now I, know what is a head of me. I, will let you know how it all goes. Hopefully I, will see my CST DP1.1 and 2.1 as quickly as possible.


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## PuckChaser

I wouldn't count on your CST 2.1 quickly. You'll be working as a CST 1.1 for at least a year or more and will probably need to be almost ready for promotion or promoted to Cpl before the CF puts you on a CST 2.1 course. Exceptionally cases may get you the course early if you've got a real good aptitude, but the intent of moving POET/FET to the DP2 level was to encourage members to sign a second contract before the CF dumps 8 months of training on them and only getting a year of actual employment before their Basic Engagement runs out.


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## rousselpl

Hi everyone,

I will be going on my POET course at CFB Kingston in the near future and I was wondering what was the procedure to get a PMQ for me and my other half while on that course?
Or is the option of getting an appartment close to base is available? 

thx in advance


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## REDinstaller

Accommodations instructions should be on your message. If you are on a restricted posting, then you will be in the shacks while on course. This saves the CF from doing multiple moves of DF&E, the course is only about 6 months long. An average deployment is of the same length. Hopefully this helps, ask your unit orderly room for clarification.


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## Mudshuvel

Hey all,

I'm going to be heading to CFSCE Kingston Feb 10 and was wondering if anyone had a clue if or for how long I could be on PAT or when the next courses start. Thanks all.


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## DND Dan

Hey guys I'm hoping to get my transfer to ATIS Tech by the end of the month and ideally be on POET before the end of the decade.  Though I am finding it very difficult to get any sort of good pre course package of things I should know.  I have the list of some of the things that are taught in POET.  However, what I'm aiming to achieve here is get some body of sources that I could use to best prepare myself for my future trade.  I see a lot of people asking what is the trade like and comparing it to other trades.  But I don't really care about that.  If anyone can help me knowing what my job will entail and things I need to know to be a useful addition to the forces.  Help me NCO Kenobi, you're my only hope.


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## DND Dan

http://cfsce.kingston.mil.ca/Catalogue/CFSCE%20FY%2011-12%20Course%20Calendar.xls

there's a link to the POET course schedule, there are two that begin in March,  they dont have the new fiscal year schedule up unfortunately, cross your fingers you are on one I guess.  I'm hoping my paperwork goes through and I can get on one as well. However, seeing as the course runs fairly often, I'm assuming that means there are quite a few people in line to be loaded on them.


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## Eye In The Sky

Did you look at the CFSCE site?  They have some PIPs on there.  Math and electronics.

go to the Kingston .mil site, and look for CFSCE under Lodger Units.  Their site is easy to nav.


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## DND Dan

Thanks Eye,  I have been on the site.  what are PIPs?  the only info I can really find is the outline as to what you are taught during POET, however in the first PO it states that a lesson is being able to look up the referenced material, publications and materials.  Ideally I would love to get an early start on that particular class so I can learn some of the basics prior to going.  Wikipedia isn't exactly a great source as hardcore engineers took it upon themselves to delve a little too deep for the level I'll need and turned any articles into enigmas for the average joe.


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## Eye In The Sky

PIP is Programmed Instruction Package.  They might also be called Pre-study packages.

I'm sure the CFSCE site has some for math and electronics, I'll look tomorrow and post the link.

The pub's stuff, I doubt you'll get off the Internet.   :2c:


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## DND Dan

Everyone I  have been looking for a while now and have found some very good items to aid anyone going into a trade that requires POET.   Here is a link to CFSCE's course catalogue.  If you click the tab named OJT Pkgs, CBTs & ref  it has a good level of work for  a noob to do prior to going into their POET course. Hope this helps any future POETs get some help quickly.

http://cfsce.kingston.mil.ca/Catalogue/courses_e.asp


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## DND Dan

Thank you Eye in the Sky.  I just finally found it.  For anyone who is looking for it as well I have made  another topic in a more appropriate spot in the forums in hopes of helping people in the future.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/104467.0.html


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## Occam

Note that the link above is a DWAN link, and is not accessible from the internet.


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## Eye In The Sky

DND Dan said:
			
		

> Everyone I  have been looking for a while now and have found some very good items to aid anyone going into a trade that requires POET.   Here is a link to CFSCE's course catalogue.  If you click the tab named OJT Pkgs, CBTs & ref  it has a good level of work for  a noob to do prior to going into their POET course. Hope this helps any future POETs get some help quickly.
> 
> http://cfsce.kingston.mil.ca/Catalogue/courses_e.asp



Looks like you found it.  Thats where the PIPs used to be, figured there'd still be something there.


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## Robert0288

Just spent a little time going through that link, and there are some pretty epic typos.  Like this beauty:



> We appaaaaaalogize for any incovenience, you may contact us if you are concerned about the course catalogue.



I wonder how that one got through spell check lol :facepalm:


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## Occam

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> Just spent a little time going through that link, and there are some pretty epic typos.  Like this beauty:
> 
> I wonder how that one got through spell check lol :facepalm:



You didn't post the sentence which immediately preceded that...the sentence which stated the site was undergoing a major overhaul due to the ACISS process.  

And you then have your answer about how that got through spell check...they're all drinking to ease the pain.   ;D


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## i_was_here1st

Hi DND Dan

I actually just registered 5 min ago to help answer your question! I've actually put in for NCM-SEP into ATIS and I find out if i made in a few days, so we might end up working together!

I'm already enrolled in school, BCIT, doing the Electronics Core Common course which covers all the same ground as POET and some of the QL5 stuff to boot (as i understand it, don't take my word as gospel).

I'm only about 7 weeks in but we have covers some of the following basic (as in everyone needs to know this, eg POET) electronics concepts;

(All D/C so far)

Soldering and resister code reading
Ohms Law
Kirchhoff voltage law
Kirchhoff current law
voltage divider
current divider
series circuits
parallel circuits
series-parallel circuits
resistance
voltage
current
conductance
Wheatstone bridges
ladder networks
superposition theorem
Thevenins theorem
Norton's theorem (same thing as Thevenin Voltage (Vth) divded by Thevenin Resistance (Rth) with the Rth now in parallel, doesn't really count!)
power formulas
max power transfer
A whole bunch on capacitors
Magnetism
Electromagnetism
troubleshooting series, parallel and series parallel circuts

Ive no doubt forgotten some stuff already, but if you just learn even one of the above ahead of time you will be doing yourself a huge favor.
Everything here is pretty much interrelated, but if I was in your shoes, id study up on Ohms law, Voltage, Current, Resistance and Kirchhoffs laws.
Just by doing that you are giving yourself a massive head start.

I'm told A/C makes D/C look nice and friendly, and I'm beginning to believe it.
Knowing D/C ahead of time will give you more time to get familial with A/C and get threw it!

As for mathematics you will need, no if and or buts;

very good algebra
understanding slope and positions on a Cartesian grid
firm to excellent understanding of scientific notation (and engineering notation)
understanding of logarithms and log base (ln and e too)
excellent trigonometry skills, if you cant handle sohcoatoa, get started now as it is a must with polar coordinates

Also, start doing logic puzzles, they are a massive help with troubleshooting D/C circuits (maybe A/C too? don't know, not there yet)

Ive set my army.ca account up to send my main email emails if some one PMs me, so if you have any questions, Ill get right back to you!

Hope everything goes well for you, and look forward to seeing you bashing electronics with me down the road!

-Charlie

*edited for spelling


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## kdomes

Hey Charlie,

You re in Common Core now? Are you in Burnaby or at the Aerospace campus? Im in the Telecommunications Tech program down the hall. I finished core last year. I am an NCM SEP ATIS TECH. Will be doing my Delta QL3 this fall.

If you re in Burnaby say hi sometime. 

Kyle


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## steinerz

Hey Andrew here, 

I've applied for NCM-SEP for Atis tech as well, first week of march is when I hear back from them seeing if they selected me. I'm anxious to find out. I'll be going to school in Ottawa. If anyone could give me any insight on the trade itself it would only aid in my journey to eventually being in the air force. 

thanks.


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## i_was_here1st

kdomes said:
			
		

> Hey Charlie,
> 
> You re in Common Core now? Are you in Burnaby or at the Aerospace campus? Im in the Telecommunications Tech program down the hall. I finished core last year. I am an NCM SEP ATIS TECH. Will be doing my Delta QL3 this fall.
> 
> If you re in Burnaby say hi sometime.
> 
> Kyle



Im downstairs from you as I understand it. Room 113, im the white dude in the front row with the guilty look on his face. One of the instructors mentioned you, He was the Asain fellow that was a former Combat engineer, small world aye?


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## Mudshuvel

I'm on PAT waiting for POET right now in Kingston. There are many things here that can be provided to give you a practice to POET, eg: the PAT MCpls and Sgts have copies they can provide you on a scrubbed usb stick.

Cheers


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## Fiver

I am reticent about creating new threads, and here goes.

I am heading to Borden on 25 Feb 2013 as a new AVS Tech. I will be waiting there until I can go to POET in Kingston.

My recruiting process was done with CFRC Montreal, with a French profile.

I can see on the <a href="http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/cfsce-eecfc/Catalogue/Schedules-Horaires-eng.asp">CFSCE website's calendar</a> that there are two kinds of POET courses: 
#ID 112313 which is 111 Training Days 
#ID 119062 which is 132 Training Days

Does it make a difference for AVS Techs? I'm thinking this is only indicating a new, 21 days longer course, and the only opening I could optimistically have (next fiscal year calendar isn't finalized yet) is the #ID 119062 starting on 6 Mar 2013.

Bonus question: What are my chances to only sit on Borden's PAT for 11/2 week and be sent to Kingston for 6 Mar 2013?

Alternate Bonus question: now, if AVS Techs can be loaded on #ID 119062, and if there are still openings, how long would it take for the Borden PAT to have me sit through a linguistic test attesting that I can work in English so I don't have to wait for a francophone course next fiscal year?


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## RTaylor

The course was changing when I was there, sounds like it still is if it has 2 versions of POET. IMO one version is for AVS, other is for ATIS possibly, or the old version of LCIS techs (whatever they're called now)


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## Fiver

Nah, on the next fiscal year all the courses are 132 training days, so it's really that POET was lengthened.

For posterity for any curious person scouring the forums about POET in the near future, here are the FY 2013/14 (non-finalized) dates as of 23 Jan 13:

17-Apr-13
6-Jun-13
3-Jul-13  (FRANCO)
6-Sep-13
1-Oct-13
28-Oct-13
18-Nov-13
12-Dec-13  (FRANCO)
23-Jan-14
13-Feb-14
21-Feb-14
19-Mar-14


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## CCR

I am on the new version of POET right now, I am AVS tech and we have some ATIS guys as well. I believe ACISS does a course called FET. AS far as being course loaded quickly, that would depend on spots available and I believe they are trying to run courses of 12 students.


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## LCISindenial

ACISS CST (formerly known as LCIS)complete FET on their DP 2.1. 

Contact info for CFSCE is on your course loading message. 

Generally OJT is requested via memo thru chain of command and approval will be based on numerous factors(ie. position avail, location, etc


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## Fiver

Anyone knows when is the block leave for the summer of 2013 at CFSCE? I've heard last of July&first of August but I've also heard the first 2 weeks of August.


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## jbird747

Hey all, 

I've heard there are 200+ pers waiting to do their POET and that people are being told that it could be sometime in 2017 before they even see a loading message.  Anyone know if there is any truth to this?  I just VOT'd to AVS Tech and am pretty eager to get my training started.  

Thanks


----------



## RedMan

Well there are courses running, and I was almost loaded on one even though I already have POET, (former LCIS/ACISS CST) for October. Check the CFSCE course calendar to see what POET courses are coming up.

I OT'd to ATIS and was supposed to go right into my ql3, but that got messed up because they thought I was supposed to do poet. Now I have to wait until next spring for ql3.

Why are you asking this here? ACISS CST (Army Sigs Tech) doesn't do traditional POET anymore (it was changed to FET...smaller poet course), unless of course that has changed... AGAIN!


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## onlytyy

Hey I'm currently in BMQ it's going by pretty good. I just wanted to prepare myself for the POET course when I go to my MOC at Kingston for the POET Course. 
I was wondering if anybody had And links or anything that would be of use to just give me to time learn a couple things before I go so that I could be somewhat prepared and not look like an idiot. 
I really want to do well and pass everything and I don't want to go in like I don't know anything.


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## sidemount

Have a look at some basic math and DC and AC theory.
You really wont have to prepare much. Poet takes you set by step through what you need to know.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Sarah_H

Honestly, focus on the math. Be able to do math without the use of a calculator. I finished POET back in February and I went into it without any background knowledge on electronics. Hell, I didn't even have a background in physics! I made it through without failing a single test. You'll be fine. But if you want some extra practise, I recommend https://www.khanacademy.org


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## hotwings

Hello everyone!


1. I do have a degree but it is an Arts degree. I am good with computers but I do not have a very strong background in programming, networking, circuits, etc. Does that mean that I will have difficulty in learning the material for POET and occupational training? Do I need a very strong technical background?

2. Can someone direct me to a link where I can find books/information on POET and ATIS-Tech occupational training or anything that is similar to it? My BMQ starts in March but I want to be prepared and study everything possible. 

3. I have already seen the occupational video on the main forces website but can someone who has experience working as an ATIS Tech describe to me how a typical day looks like? Am I mostly on the computer and around wires, installing and repairing equipment (like I saw on the video) or is there more to it?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## mariomike

hotwings said:
			
		

> Can someone direct me to a link where I can find books/information on POET and ATIS-Tech occupational training or anything that is similar to it?



POET
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Amilnet.ca+ATIS&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=yMeEWNvWJ6aC8Qev2KLoAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:milnet.ca+POET


ATIS
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Amilnet.ca+ATIS&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=yMeEWNvWJ6aC8Qev2KLoAw&gws_rd=ssl


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## George Wallace

hotwings said:
			
		

> Hello everyone!
> 
> 
> 1. ......... I am good with computers ......
> 
> 2. Can someone direct me to a link where I can find books/information on POET and ATIS-Tech occupational training or anything that is similar to it?
> 
> 3. ............ can someone who has experience working as an ATIS Tech describe to me how a typical day looks like?



See the links that mariomike provided.

And LOCKED.


----------



## Alpheus

I want to start an ILP with George Brown college in their Electronics Engineering Technician Diploma.  The prerequisite is their Electronics Technician Certificate Program, which looks like a carbon copy of the old POET, which I took in 2011.  Does anyone know someone in CFSCE who I can contact to get a detailed course syllabus of the old POET, so I can see if GBC will grant me credit for it?


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## Occam

You may want to check this out with your local PSO.  Last I heard CDA went through some kind of overhaul, and I haven't heard what became of MCTAP.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-6.page


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## PuckChaser

CFSCE Standards likely still has a copy of the POET QS and TP. Both of those documents should be more than enough to get a PLAR completed for you. There should be contact information on their DWAN website.


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