# How New Recruits Are Treated



## Dacier (20 Nov 2002)

I‘m starting BT in March, and the MOC will probaly end this time next year for me. 

I was wondering, how long does it take for a new Private to be accpeted by his new peers?  The people who i‘m joining will have been together for a while and of course have come through tough experiences together.  I‘m of course expecting a time in the beginning where i‘m the new guy where people tease and what not.  Does this period of being the "new guy" last a lengthy time? Or is the acceptance by the soldiers come quickly?

I would imagine there would be variables invovled depending on the attitude of the "new guy", and things like his age.

I‘ll be twenty-two when i‘m done training.  

Any answers? Tips for being the "new guy" would greatly be appreciated.


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## Dacier (20 Nov 2002)

For some reason even when I‘m logged in, it will tell me I need to login to edit my post.

I forgot to add I‘m joing with the PPCLI.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Nov 2002)

Abandon All hope, yea who would recruit.

 

Depends on who.
If you TRY and be accepted by everyone then you‘ll stand out. Be yourself


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## Sharpey (21 Nov 2002)

It also depends on the members of the Regiment. When I was a wee FNG, new guys stuck together and were told to stalk chairs and sweep floors by the rest. Now, the new guys are being incouraged to mingle with us, both in uniform and out, I see it as a bonus to us and them. I feel a new recruit that feels welcome witll be a better asset to the Regiment.


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## Michael Dorosh (21 Nov 2002)

Depends on the individual too.  Someone who tries his hardest to help others will be accepted.  Some ****head who thinks he‘s King of the World because he had been a warrant officer in the Air Cadets and thus doesn‘t have to listen to his instructors in the Army will not make a lasting impression on his colleagues....  I think anyone with any sanity would quickly try and distance themselves from such an individual....

I am sure that isn‘t the case here!


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## Jarnhamar (21 Nov 2002)

God, how many times have i heard that
-"Uh why wouldnt *I* be section senior first i was an RSM in the cadets
-In cadets we did drill differently

We even had a private put in a memo that he be promoted to corporal off his basic due to his experence from the cadet corps.

Always good for a smile.


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## portcullisguy (26 Nov 2002)

I spent just under two years in cadets, hardly remember a thing, and won‘t ever admit it anyway.

Several of the "cadet" people on my BMQ course have thus far distinguished themselves as Class "A" arrogant little pr*cks, with similar whining and nonsense to what Ghost mentioned.

I think some of the people on my course believe it‘s a popularity contest, who can tell the best jokes and make the others laugh and basically get away with crap.

Well, it‘s only been four weeks, but it‘s been four weeks of surprises for all, I‘d say!  Mr?  I‘m enjoying it even more, looking forward to the next challenge... bring it on!


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## toms3 (27 Nov 2002)

portcullisguy - all I can say is "hooooraaahh"!!

Regarding "cadets"...the best advice I ever gave to an ex cadet is for a currently running BMQ, I told him to NOT make a big deal about his cadet experance.  Cadets that go on and on about how much experance they have end up being disliked by the other candidates.  It ends up working against them.  

I can remember on my own BT course (many many moons ago), the only candidate to fall out on our final ruck march was the cadet that always boasted about how much better he was compared to the rest of us.


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## KOPEC (27 Nov 2002)

i belive that cadets gain awsome experience for future military service. my cousin is in arty. he said cadets helped him know the info he just had to remember it


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## combat_medic (27 Nov 2002)

The only thing you learn of value from cadets is drill, boot polishing, rank structure, and to keep your mouth shut at the appropriate times. And most of the time these aren‘t even taught properly. In my experience, the cockiest recruits are always ex-cadets. They show up with a big attitude, and end up screwing up because of their overconfidence.

Example: on my basic there was an ex air cadet who was trying to show off with rifle drill. He ended up smashing the rifle into his head, cutting a 2" gash down to his eyebrow. Not only did he have to go for stitches, he had to explain to the instuctors how he got it. 

Of course the exception to this is the cadet who keeps his mouth shut, doesn‘t brag about his cadet service, doesn‘t try to show off, and pays attention. This person will do farely well, if they can ‘un-learn‘ the bad cadet habits.


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## canada (27 Nov 2002)

I think that in the army there is a misunderstanding as to what cadets know and are taught.  If any of the many reservists on the list have ever be to a cadet training night you would find that it is very similar to the PRES.  Cadets gives young people who often have no confidence skills etc. What they need to make a start in life, giving them the building blocks to a sucessful carrer.  Before all the, a cadet did this or that stories think about how much you did as a teenager.  I was in cadets, I was an RSM, I never told a soul in the army and never was the over confident one who screwed up on BT.  I silently helped my section and made up for the lack of insrtructional skill that the instructors had on my courses.  I have seen a large number of corporals in the army who are ten times less efficent than cadets.  How the army should more wisely handle the cadets who join, patriculary PRES is to utilize the skills that they have.  I admit, there are a lot of dumb, cocky and down right slow people in cadets, compared to the rest of the army...there not doing to bad.  
My comment stem from the fact that also, I and all the other trained troops at my regiment are treated poorly by the Senior Pte/ Cpls.  The process of being a new guy is tough, being an immature ex-cadet will only compound your problems.  I wonder if the M/Cpl who told me that I couldn‘t march knew that I had been on the national cadet drill team and compeated all over the place.  -Your thoughts-

Some of my closest friend and the best soilders in the army were in cadets, many of whom are serving in elite units here and in other countrys.
  :evil:


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## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2002)

Cadets do teach teen agers good skills for life etc.. But i don‘t think the army should officially ‘reckognize‘ cadet courses or experence.
let an ex cadet prove himself along side his peers doing the same training and tests as them.


"I wonder if the M/Cpl who told me that I couldn‘t march knew that I had been on the national cadet drill team and compeated all over the place"

I think this is a good example. The Mcpl telling you how crappy you are at drill is a part of basic training. It‘s not about your past experence or what you did "in cadets" it‘s about you as a recruit in the army. I‘ve been told i hold my rifle wrong and have bad shooting posture when i have half a dozen shooting awards and this guy averages a 60 ont he PWT3. It‘s all a part of the game.


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## combat_medic (28 Nov 2002)

Not to get into a cadet rant, but I spent all summer this year on a cadet camp, and was (for the most part) appalled at what I saw. I had more discipline as a 6 year old in girl guides. The drill, even on the "drill teams" may have been in sync, but was not done the way the CF does it. Their barracks were filthy, and I saw more pregnancy tests run on 13 year olds than I care to count.

Yes, there were some cadets who were well disciplined and reasonably intelligent, but for the most part, their behaviour was deplorable. Hundreds of kids getting sent home for having sex in the barracks, running away from the camp, doing drugs, sneaking in alcohol, going to town and getting things pierced or tattooed (yes, i saw it first hand), kids trying to commit suicide, beating or intimidating other kids, kids who never showered or did laundry in 6 weeks, taking other kids‘ prescription drugs, faking major illnesses.... the list goes on and on. I‘ve never seen behaviour like this in a school, or on a military base (well, not to this extent at least), and I saw about 2000 kids this summer. Another friend of mine saw a huge genital herpes outbreak because a 15 year old girl was giving 5$ oral sex at a different camp. At another cadet camp, a 14 and 15 year old were sent home because they were whoring themselves out at 10$ a pop.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2002)

Boy the joys of being a medic.
You have a strange rash where? It hurts when you pee? HOW many condoms do you want??

Thats just brutal combat medic, you have my sympathy. Funny thing is you could tell the kids parents "your child is doing this this and that" and they will either deny it "how can my little innocent billy be stealing drugs?" or they blame the army.

It makes me proud to think those kids are tomorrows leaders and going to run things when im old.


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## Pikache (28 Nov 2002)

That‘s pretty ****ed up. 
I hope the Cadets organization is doing something about this. Something like this is unacceptable.

The solution I see is tougher discipline, but I can see so many people screaming about that...


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## BestOfTheBest (28 Nov 2002)

I was in cadets like a year ago and I agree it should be more tougher but if it does get more tougher the  you are going to get fewer people in it and your going to get parents are your ***  saying why does my 12 year old kid have to run so much and get secrmed on so much.
Its different then the olds days by alot


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## ArmyBoyzGurl (7 Jan 2003)

holy crap.  i‘m an aircadet (wo2) and i‘ve actually never seen anything like that. i‘ve been a staff cadet twice and i‘m happy to say that none of my kids ever did anythign that dumb.  just to ask combat_medic.. were you at a tri service base, or army, or what?? cuz it all depends, you know??


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## Wilson601 (7 Jan 2003)

Combat Medics post was incredible. i had a pretty good laugh, but i‘ve heard people talk about the Airborne like that too.  :skull:


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## Korus (7 Jan 2003)

My view on Cadets is similar to Combat Medics. There where some very cocky ex-cadets on my BMQ, but one of the, if not the, sharpest recruit was an ex-cadet.


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## muskrat89 (8 Jan 2003)

A couple of side comments in this thread bothered me, and I must make a point. One of the shortfalls (I believe) in the Reserve system is that (generally) a lot of goofballs get promoted, or to be instructors, or to go on callout - because they are available. Chances are they are available, because they have no job, no steady job, or are not valuable enough to be kept at their civilian job. This results in a lot of "Puffed Up Little Hitlers" being instructors, or going on callouts to give the Militia a bad name to our Regular Force compadres. Yes, I know their are exceptions. My point - I have instructed on a number of courses from Basic, and Trades, and Leadership - I never admonish a candidate, "just because", when it comes to skills. To correct drill or weapons handling skills, just for the sake of correcting it is just plain stupid. There are lots of opportunities to play silly bugger games with course candidates, other than when they are learning a skill. I had many a "conversation" (one-sided) with a young M/Bdr or Sgt, who thought being an a55h0le was the way to teach soldiers, and that their fecal matter had no odour. My 2 cents, anyway...


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## combat_medic (8 Jan 2003)

ArmyBoyzGurl: actually, it was an air cadet only base. Besides, a lot of the stuff you may see as a staff cadet will not be the same stuff that the medics see. With some exceptions, most of the medical info is confidential, and can only be told to other medical staff or to the parents. Also, the big disciplinary issues will go right to the higher leadership.


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## portcullisguy (8 Jan 2003)

muskrat, I like your reference to puffed up little Hitlers.

As we all know, Der Feurer was only a Corporal, several years before he manufactured his rise to leader of Nazi Germany.

As any military history book will tell you, the educated officer class of Germany didn‘t think much of Hitler‘s ability to plan and execute military strategy.  He was accused (never to his face, of course), of thinking like a corporal when the situation called for thinking like a field marshal.  Especially late in the war, stories of Hitler calling up invisible divisions and maneuvering them across his planning maps give the impression that he was just not all there.

I certainly hope that during my military career, whether it be long or short, that I never reach a particular rank and think, "That‘s it, I‘ve sorted it, I know everything now!".  There is always more to learn, and a corporal just isn‘t qualified to lead an army.


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## Wilson601 (8 Jan 2003)

ARMY BOYZGURL:

What the ****  would it matter if it was air cadets or sea cadets or Army cadets? They‘re all cadets.  :skull:


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## PTE Gruending (9 Jan 2003)

I have heard that if you were at one time a Cadet, it may end up hurting you later on in your CF career. For instance; learning drill techniques improperly, and not getting jacked up for it, while in Cadets. Then having to "unlearn" these improper techniques in BT.


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## DnA (9 Jan 2003)

a lot of cadets take the course, but then dont go into the military after, they become CI‘s or just go onto a civilian job or whatever


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## typhoon85 (9 Jan 2003)

There is one minor difference in cadet wings and reg/res wings. The cadet wings have a red maple leaf and the reg/rsv have a white maple leaf.


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## MJP (9 Jan 2003)

Sean, sorry but your wrong.  Red(or cherry wings) just means you have the course itself.  White wings are for people you have actually served in a jump position(such as the CAR, Jump coys..etc).


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## typhoon85 (9 Jan 2003)

okay thnks mjp


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## Dacier (9 Jan 2003)

Considering all that is said here on the topic on how cadets are seen by the Reg‘s, would you want to wear your cadet wings?  

Even if its the same course and what not, its like walking around high school waving your grade school diploma.  Who cares.


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## Jarnhamar (9 Jan 2003)

Having a jump course is something to be proud of, your part of a brotherhood.
Walking around the city wearing  an airborne sweather with a "paratrooper" jacket and a paratrooper or airborne hat is a little much.
Also with that i would enclude bragging about how you cut off the handle of your tooth brush to make your kit lighter and holding your jump course over a civilians head like its a nobel peace price heh.
just a pet peeve of mine.

If someone has their course from cadets and earned their wings they should wear them. I heard a good comment about the topic once though, just because you have your jump course doesnt mean your a paratrooper, a paratrooper belongs to an airborne unit. If you just have a jump course your a parachutist.


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## Dacier (10 Jan 2003)

So you would advise wearing Cadet jump wings in the regular forces?  Do you think you would get honour and respect from the regulars??  Their have been a number of long threads on this board that point too that it would be best to not where them to be accpeted by the vets.


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## Jungle (10 Jan 2003)

Why would someone not wear the para wings they earned in cadets ? The qualification is the same, and it is valid once you join the CF. Actually, a number of my friends did their jump course with cadets and became excellent Paratroopers. There is no other jump course, and once you are qual‘d, they will not send you again... so when does a cadet qual‘d parachutist begin wearing his Wings ???


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## 30 for 30 (10 Jan 2003)

FYI I‘ve heard many say that the cadet jump course is actually tougher than the course CF members take (at least it was a few years back). For one it‘s much longer with more physical training. All training is done by airborne staff from the reg force jump companies. Back in my day those staff were obviously all Airborne Regiment instructors. There‘s also a notion that the cadets on these courses are simply made to work harder and are pushed further, ‘cause it‘s just a fact that all reg and reserve CF members as a rule seem to detest senior cadets! Trust me, they may be teenagers, but they‘ve earned those wings. Maybe it‘s different now, I don‘t know, but I doubt it.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Jan 2003)

Sounds like you were talking to the same person i was, they told me when you go over seas you get all new equipment and have access to the "war stock"


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## Jungle (10 Jan 2003)

The basic para course is the same for all. The difference with cadets is that they have a 3-week pre-para, run by para-instrs, to select those who will go on the actual course. The pre-para I did in ‘85 was run by Phys Trg Instr‘s (now known as PSP staff) and was 2 weeks long. We were only doing PT, but cadets actually start doing basic para stuff on their pre-para. I was course WO for the cadet pre-para in ‘94, and we even had them go through the mock-tower.


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## BestOfTheBest (20 Jan 2003)

"The attrition rate for this cadet course is typically 12-20% of candidates, not unlike that for Regular Forces personnel who take the identical course. Cadets who complete this course can be justifyably proud of their achievement and are entitled to wear their "jump wings" for the rest of their military career. "

I found this information on the Army Cadets site.


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## CH1 (16 Jan 2005)

As to colur of the wings, on my S3's I wear the white & on combats red.  There was several reasons for this. 1. the usaul rites of passage for an infantry  man  caught up to me in 85, & the MO said no more.
2. in some of the active sub units, mine included, we did every thing possible to sub due our profiles on the line, thus the red wings.  Yes I was an active jumper & wasn't far from jump master quals. We tended to do things that were different from the mother units in the late 60,s thru mid 80's. Even today my pack is  a US c-2 alice.  I guess the jist is there are some odd ball op requirements, reigimental quirks, that differ from ro's.


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## GO!!! (17 Jan 2005)

If you are a cadet and have your cherry wings, wear em. You earned it. Th course is the same, no more no less for reg/res/cdts.


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## Navalsnpr (17 Jan 2005)

I had a friend who completed the Cadet Para course in the mid-80's. He chose not to wear them through boot camp and sewed them on the night before grad parade. Mind you he also had a copy of the course report proving that he had the course.

They nearly re-coursed him, but fortunately then didn't.

If you get the para qual as a Cadet, Reservist or Reg Force, it's all achieved at the same standard.


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