# Military sterotypes?



## EastVan

Hi! first time post here (hope this is in the right category).

So, a couple months ago I had revealed to my mother and step dad that I had plans to work in the army, more specifically the infantry(I'm 17 now). This is something I had always seen myself doing, ever since I was little. 

Their response was not at all what I expected. They weren't proud, concerned for my safety, or even interested as to why I had made this decision. The first thing that came out of my mother's mouth was "People who join the military generally aren't very smart. What followed soon after were rants on how I should go to culinary school (I don't cook, I work in a restaurant and it sucks!), how soldiers are enforcers of American foreign policy, how I could be doing better things with my life and how the military will brainwash me (I found this kind of ironic).

I didn't expect their responses to be overwhelmingly positive, but I was surprised by this. I guess they want me to lead a 'normal' life. It got me wondering though, what is with the negative stigma attached to the Canadian Military? Everyone thinks I will be killed immediately, be brainwashed, or that I'm wasting time that could be spent in college. And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?


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## klacquement

I don't find that there are any more "dumb" people in the military than there are in civilian life.  I can't speak much for the infantry (I'm navy), but even going by what I saw in recruit school, the infanteers were far from stupid.

There are always those who join because they want to fight (as one member of my BMQ platoon put it, "I want to kill me an Ay-rab"), but it is my understanding that this type gets weeded out; most of our people _don't_ want to fight, but rather finish their mission and get home safely.  And that takes alot of brains, attention to detail, etc that you won't see in many civilian jobs.


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## Franko

Just point out the fact that perhaps they should come on this site and actually do a bit of research before they talk about something that they do not know much about.

They were probably in a defensive mode and the topic brought up some of their own personal feelings of Canadian foreign policy and their own stereotype of what a person in the CF or how the service really is. 

Funny thing is the CF is a direct reflection of Canadian society......so they must have met a lot of people who generally weren't very smart in their lifetime.

I actually have had quite a few troops in my unit, among previous ones as well, who not only completed their grade 12/13 but pursued a University degree and accomplished that goal. A number of them have a masters and a couple had their PhD.

These were NCOs....not Officers, so the stereotype of the recruit not being very smart is kinda blown right out of the water.

Hell, we had an Officer who actually designed a piece of equipment that is currently on the ISS! Why he's in the Military I have no idea....I think it's the challenge.

Well, I have to get back to breaking rocks before the 11am mind washing session....er....church.

Regards


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## Antoine

> how soldiers are enforcers of American foreign policy



US is our neighbors and luckily enough they are a democracy and an important business partner. 

There is a war that American are fighting but we are not directly involved in, as well as another one that occurred in the late sixties. Check out news papers and history books for the answers.

No military to protect our interest = no guarantee of peace and democracy in Canada, no high standard of life here, neither prosperity and so on. ...Do they think that all the freedom and wealth we get here come free. Forgot that 2/3 of the planet is in war and poverty?

The Captain that interviewed me was far from being stupid. We talked about a lot of serious and challenging stuff other than : Are you ready to kill, do you like to destroy and follow orders without critical thinking,.....  :

On a more positive note, what you can do is dig up all the info on the CF training which you going to realize is not only how to aim and shoot. Then show to your parents how you are going to be trained as a professional and mature Canadian citizen. Show them that the CF is strong on education and you can up grade yours with the CF help.


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## Franko

Another thing is now Snr NCOs must start planning on taking university courses if they ever want to make it to the dizzy heights of being an RSM. I believe it either is, or will soon be, a prerequisite to attain that position.

So there goes the stereotype of the crusty old SSM/ CSM with a grade 8 edumication.

Regards


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## Journeyman

EastVan said:
			
		

> And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?


At last count there were 28 of us, so statistically you should be all right.


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## northernboy_24

lacqui said:
			
		

> There are always those who join because they want to fight (as one member of my BMQ platoon put it, "I want to kill me an Ay-rab"),



I really hope that person got weeded out on your platoon as well.


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## SeanNewman

I think the stereotype is based on some truth of how some soldiers used to be in generations past.

It used to be that the military was often a third choice type of job, as in you had lost all hope of any other employment and it was either the Army or nothing because you had dropped out of high school.

In fact, for a while it was even jail or the Army.

Those days are long gone though, and the ranks are filled with people who are in the Army because they chose this as their career.

Also, the education rates are higher than ever before.  When I was a platoon commander around 2005, it was the exception to not have high school and I can't even think of one in the platoon who didn't.  But it didn't stop there though, there were troops with degrees, too...and I'm not talking Sgts+ but Privates and Corporals who just didn't want to go the officer path.

I think due to the internet, the average person just has access to a lot more information than ever before too, but that's not just limited to soldiers.

To wrap this up, it's not that what your parents feel isn't based on some truth, but the problem is that their idea of a soldier is based on information from several decades ago.  Things have changed drastically since then.


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## Old Sweat

As Petamocto said, these stereotypes go back generations. I would not however agree with all his comments about the troops of a generation or two back. It is true many were in the army because they had little other choice, but that was in an era of a very skimpy social safety net and much lower average education in the public at large and not just the CF.

As for the choice between jail and the forces, the real bad actors did not get that option. Even so, I don't recall too many guys who came that route, popular myths not withstanding. 

My wife enjoys telling people that my mother told me after I had enlisted that I had screwed my life and no good girl would ever go out with me. Roll with it and don't let the critics get you down. In a few years when you go back to your old neighborhood, your buds whom you used to hang out with, complaining about life in general, will still be hanging out, complaining about the same old same old. You, on the other hand, will have seen a lot of Canada and probably a bit of the word to boot.


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## ArmyRick

Eastvan,

The comments your parents made were out of ignorance. In my opinion, they're prejudice. The advice above is good. Join, live the adventure (their are good times and bad) and beleive me, you will not regret it.

As someone said, drop by the old neighbourhood and watch alot of your other people you know just going through the motions in life (drones?) while you are living it.

BTW, I only have high school education but through PD in the military and some self teaching I have had university proffessors give me some good remarks about the work I produce. Hows that for us "not generally smart infantry types"?


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## Jarnhamar

Of course you will be brainwashed, it's the military. Surprise. Except we call it conditioning or training.

And tell your parents if they disrespect you like that again you will report them to homeland security for political re-education.


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## fischer10

EastVan said:
			
		

> Everyone thinks I will be killed immediately, be brainwashed, or that I'm wasting time that could be spent in college. And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?



I got this exact reaction from everyone as well, except my parents. I have completed my Gr. 12 and have attended the university of Waterloo for Mechanical Engineering - which was horribly boring (Sit in class from 8-5, go home and do more school work until 11 and so on.) I dropped out of that and attended University of Manitoba and took some random classes to find something I liked - it still was not enough. There was no challenge to it, no physical demand along side the mental. I joined the military and first question from everyone was "Oh your going in for Officer and getting them to pay for your school?" Which I was not doing at all, I joined Combat Arms. Once people heard that it was all "Oh your going to die/Are you suicidal/He wants to die/He's throwing his life away/You're smart why would you do that?"

No one understands that it takes more then a 'dumb brute' to do many jobs in the CF and on top of that some jobs require you to have education. As said above, the CF promote education (my recruiter tried to get me to go in for officer, they are short on them haha). Given some of the jobs wont have civilian application, but none the less it is not a waste or death wish.

I've been on this site since February and met some military people and they are far from "dumb".  Some may be harda**'s but thats about all I have seen haha.


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## EpicBeardedMan

It's funny how people lean more towards stupidity when someone joines the armed forces rather than courage.


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## George Wallace

Ah!  Stereotypes.  Gotta love em.

Many of the older members of this site can remember the days when people thought that members of the Canadian Forces didn't have to pay Taxes, lived in their houses (PMQs) for free, and all that kind of stuff.  None of it was true, but the myths still existed.


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## medicineman

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> It's funny how people lean more towards stupidity when someone joines the armed forces rather than courage.



Speaking of stereotypes, the parents' comments could have alot to do with where the OP is from - East Vancouver - you know what us left coasters are like, morally/mentally superior and such because of the granola we eat and other substances we inhale, trees we hug and whales we save  ;D.

MM


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## SeanNewman

medicineman said:
			
		

> Speaking of stereotypes, the parents' comments could have alot to do with where the OP is from - East Vancouver - you know what us left coasters are like, morally/mentally superior and such because of the granola we eat and other substances we inhale, trees we hug and whales we save  ;D.



Compared to Maritimers who love the military and inhale Testors model glue, cut down trees, and kill bear/moose/deer/baby seals?


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## medicineman

Essentially polar opposites, yes.

MM


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## SeanNewman

MM,

Maybe that's why Ontario in the middle votes the way they do, because they like to sit on the fence and not make decisions about which way to go on any issue.


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## Michael OLeary

medicineman said:
			
		

> Essentially polar opposites, yes.
> 
> MM



Geographically speaking, wouldn't that be "coastal opposites"?


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## medicineman

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Geographically speaking, wouldn't that be "coastal opposites"?



I guess you got me there .

MM


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## stealthylizard

While I was in high school, as a reservist, and there was quite a bit of a delay getting a CT to the regs.  My mom actually called up a Marine recruiting centre in the US to see if I could enlist down there.  This was back in about 1996.  Move ahead about 10 years, and she was concerned about me fighting in an American war, thinking I would be going to Iraq, and trying to convince me to go to school to get a trade instead, lol.  Now she looks at the job market and realizes maybe I did make the right decision, and is trying to persuade me to maybe stick with the military as a career, just in something outside of the infantry.


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## vonGarvin

Journeyman said:
			
		

> At last count there were 28 of us, so statistically you should be all right.








Well played, sir.  Well played!


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## Alea

EastVan,

I'm 39 years old. Woman. French from France and have lived in Canada for the past 23 years. Enough time to develop a strong feeling of "it's-my-country-don't-touch-it" type.

When I was just a bit older than you, 20 years old, I already was interested in joining. What is it that stopped me at the time? Prejudices against women in the army and the way people were thinking about the army! So I didn't have the courage to enroll.
Although it was in the back of my head since that time, I let too much time go by and meanwhile, my strong feeling of "it's-my-country-don't-touch-it" was just getting stronger.

Finally, more than a year ago, I decided to make the big step and now am in the process of joining. But when I announced my decision to people around me, I got to hear the most frightening/foolish things a woman wants to hear: 
"What? Women get rapped in the army" 
"You are going to be with people who can't even sign their names"
"You are to old for this and deserve better".  
Someone even told me this: "You are French. It's not your country!"
Lately I was told by an ignorant person: "To me the Canadian Army is absurd and senseless because in Kandahar they eat lobsters every Thursday and have nothing else to do than play cards".

I'm fortunate to have military friends ranging from private to a Captain in Infantry and a senior officer. They are all educated. They've all travelled the world wether on missions or for vacations and they are very far from being ignorants. 

In taking the decision to join the CF, you will find out 2 things: 
1) You know very little about the Canadian Army and will want to know more and more.
2) Unfortunately, civilians know very little about the reality of the CF, its role, its rules and ethics.

If you could print some of the threads on here and show them to your parents, they would see that the members of this forum are educated, intelligent and can old conversations about just anything from politics to religion. 

You could also print Parkie's story and have people around you read it in the hope that they remember why, today, us and them may live in a free country and to what cost we may live in this free country.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/96107.0.html

And last but not least, in the end, it is your choice of life. As long as you feel at peace with it. So it be!

Take care  :nod:
Alea


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## Pusser

Hmmm.  Not a normal life?  As I look around me at my house in a nice neighbourhood, with a two-car garage (with two cars even), a pool outback, a wife, children, a dog and a cat, I'm thinking if this isn't normal then perhaps "normal" isn't what I want!  I also reflect back on the last 28 years and think of all the really cool things I've been able to do.  I've been on the bottom of the ocean, seen a good chunk of the world and been allowed to blow stuff up.  I've even been able to share some of these experiences with my family (not the blowing stuff up part - much to the chagrin of my kids).  I have no regrets and my parents couldn't be prouder.  What would your parents prefer - that you go off and be a part of something that is bigger than yourself and make a difference, or move home periodically everytime your latest McJob fails?

There is no shortage of idiots in the military, but they generally don't last very long.  We truly do try to make sure that they DON'T hurt anyone (including themselves) before we weed them out.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

When my train pulled out of Guelph all those years ago I'm sure I caught a glimpse of my Parent's tap dancing on the platform.....................and when I think of what life experience/ discipline/ maturity[ stop laughing Vern]/ leadership skills I received from being in the military I do believe they should have had a complete hoe-down.

Your parents are wrong. Full stop.


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## Rigger052

Mine were just happy that someone else was going to have to pay my grocery bill ... me! ;D


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## EpicBeardedMan

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ah!  Stereotypes.  Gotta love em.
> 
> Many of the older members of this site can remember the days when people thought that members of the Canadian Forces didn't have to pay Taxes, lived in their houses (PMQs) for free, and all that kind of stuff.  None of it was true, but the myths still existed.



People always say "Wow and they'll pay for everything too, you live for free" and I'm always "....What the hell are you talking about?". I don't know how they think that.


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## SeanNewman

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> I don't know how they think that.



Probably a combination of half truths they have heard about the US military, combined with half truths of Canadian cases where a married person does not pay rations and quarters while going through training (which IMO is BS and discriminatory to single people).


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## armyvern

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ...[ stop laughing Vern]/...



No worries Bruce; I think you're very mature ... in an actual years count sort of way.

Thief.


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## stealthylizard

Quite a few people that I talk to are shocked that we have to pay for everything, including taxes, and even haircuts.  Some are even of the opinion that we shouldn't have to.


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## EastVan

Thanks for all of you replies. From reading these posts it's odvious the sterotypes have been blown out of proportion.  I geuss it's human nature to hate/fear what they don't understand. 

I'd much rather have a meaningful job than be dragged down by everyone else's expectations. Vancouverites piss me off sometimes.


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## EastVan

medicineman said:
			
		

> Speaking of stereotypes, the parents' comments could have alot to do with where the OP is from - East Vancouver - you know what us left coasters are like, morally/mentally superior and such because of the granola we eat and other substances we inhale, trees we hug and whales we save  ;D.
> 
> MM


   

YES. Anytime I reveal my career ambitions to someone of 'poise and culture' I get this weird look as they sip their wine. "So you're gonna go to AfghaniSTAUN or something" Is the most common response. (teachers and such. I'm a seventeen y/o little punk from eastvan)


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## Pusser

EastVan said:
			
		

> YES. Anytime I reveal my career ambitions to someone of 'poise and culture' I get this weird look as they sip their wine. "So you're gonna go to AfghaniSTAUN or something" Is the most common response. (teachers and such. I'm a seventeen y/o little punk from eastvan)



You stand a greater chance of being invited to Rideau Hall or Buckingham Palace by wearing a uniform than by being a member of the "poise and culture" crowd.  Perhaps they're just jealous?


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## Haggis

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Another thing is now Snr NCOs must start planning on taking university courses if they ever want to make it to the dizzy heights of being an RSM. I believe it either is, or will soon be, a prerequisite to attain that position.



There is a clear distinction being made in the NCM corps today between education and training.  Under the four pillars of Professional Development (Training, Education, Experience and Self-Development) formal  - post secondary - education has always tended to be under the "self development" pillar, while military education was seen to be NCM PD courses (i.e. ILQ, ALQ and CQ).

The CDA has very recently stood up a program to study the development of an NCM Diploma.  The intent is to analyse and determine what military training, and education can equate to the granting of educational credit (equivalencies) on civvy street. (i.e. how much post secondary credit should your Crew Commanders course get you under, say, a management of human resources programme?). 

It's long been recognized that NCMs have a wealth of practical trade, leadrship and life experiences which should be captured and capitalized on in the form of cross-instiutional recognition and acceptance.  Hence this program.

Although it's not yet a requirement for NCMs to have a post-secondary diploma to progress beyond sub-unit level, it is definitely desireable.  Many more are doing it on their own under the expectation that it may, someday, be a prerequisite.

What this means, essentially, is that the NCM corps of today and tomorrow is and will continue to be better educated than in the past and, therefore, more capable partners in the command team.


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## Hammer Sandwich

EastVan said:
			
		

> YES. Anytime I reveal my career ambitions to someone of 'poise and culture' I get this weird look as they sip their wine. "So you're gonna go to AfghaniSTAUN or something" Is the most common response. (teachers and such. I'm a seventeen y/o little punk from eastvan)



"AfghaniSTAUN"..... :rofl:   I know exactly what you're saying on that one...

Oh well, you just let those _ever so enlightened_, fair trade coffee drinking, scarf wearing in the summer, birkenstock sporting, soy eating, Radiohead listening, Prius driving pr1cks continue with their pointless lives, while you go out and weave the blanket of freedom under which they rest their little heads.  

Some don't get it, and never will.


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## Kat Stevens

I was raised on the Left Coast, in a little slice of paradise.  I came to Alberta in '96 when the army insisted that Chilliwack was a horrible place to live and train.  I seriously cannot believe I ever lived there, I am the most non-British Columbian I know of.  Beer, pickups, guns, and no PST suits me just fine!  At my 30 year HS reunion, I found there was absolutely no common ground left with people I grew up with.


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## Pusser

Alberta - yes, redneck heaven.  I saw a wedding party out for photos one day - the bride and bridesmaids showed up in a white pick-up truck and the groom and ushers showed up in a black pick-up truck.  Priceless!;D


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## medicineman

With or without gun racks?

MM


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## Hammer Sandwich

medicineman said:
			
		

> With or without gun racks?
> 
> MM



Pfffft......Trick question.

There aren't any trucks in Alberta _without_ gun racks.


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## medicineman

Well, the limo versions might have them hidden as opposed to in the rear window to make them look less trailer trashy.

MM


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## Hawk

I've come to the conclusion you have to carefully groom your parents to get their lips buttoned when you announce you're joining the CF, preferably starting when you're age 5 or younger. If you do it right, by the time you're 18 they wouldn't dare say anything about your decisions, because you've built a reputation of being headstrong, determined, and not broaching any opposition once your mind's made up. Doing it that way, they'll shake their heads, perhaps worship the ceiling god, and ask each other where they went wrong, but they'll leave you to your decision. Then when you succeed and make them proud, they can gloat over having done such an wonderful job of raising you. You just have to raise your parents properly!

Joking aside, parents aren't always right, and if you follow your dream, you have to work hard to get them on your side, unfortunately, after the fact. Join, work hard, do well, make them proud.

Hawk


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## Hammer Sandwich

medicineman said:
			
		

> Well, the limo versions might have them hidden as opposed to in the rear window to make them look less trailer trashy.
> 
> MM



Well, not quite hidden, most Albertan limos have enough room for a turret.

God, I miss Alberta.


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## George Wallace

Hawk said:
			
		

> ............. If you do it right, by the time you're 18 they wouldn't dare say anything about your decisions, because you've built a reputation of being headstrong, determined, and not broaching any opposition once your mind's made up.



 ;D

.........and then the CF will reject you as "unsuitable for training".    >


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## mariomike

I have no regrets about joining the militia. I am especially thankful for the driver training I received in my trade as a Transport Operator ( MSE-Op ). 
When I joined Emergency Services in 1972, our Commissioner, Mr. Pollard, was a retired army colonel. A significant number of our management and senior staff, at that time, were veterans. It was a much more para-military culture in those days. 
Although very limited, I believe my service as a Reservist made a positive impression on me, and helped me in my full-time career.


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## Hawk

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> .........and then the CF will reject you as "unsuitable for training".    >



You could have a point if you don't know when to pull up and behave, follow orders, etc!

Hawk


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## EastVan

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I was raised on the Left Coast, in a little slice of paradise.  I came to Alberta in '96 when the army insisted that Chilliwack was a horrible place to live and train.  I seriously cannot believe I ever lived there, I am the most non-British Columbian I know of.  Beer, pickups, guns, and no PST suits me just fine!  At my 30 year HS reunion, I found there was absolutely no common ground left with people I grew up with.



The thing is, in Vancouver, There is a huge difference between the east and west side. Thus you are either defined as a 'west side kid' (Rich) or an 'east side kid' (poor). To give everyone an Idea; Westies are busted by the cops for smoking pot on the beach and Easties are busted for selling pot on the beach. I'm lucky to have gotten out of the latter, but am stuck with the former. This means being held to a standard post graduation that most of these kids experience. (Travel to Europe-come back and tell everyone about it-go to shows and parties-broke-student loan-degree-debt-meaningless, stressful job.) Not for me. Maybe it's a 'calling'? ;D


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## Hammer Sandwich

EastVan said:
			
		

> The thing is, in Vancouver,Not for me. Maybe it's a 'calling'? ;D


(Quote Reader's Digest version)

All kidding aside, (and sorry for being a participant in the silliness that awesomed up this thread), EV, for a 17yr old punk a$$ kid, you come across as heaving your head on straight.

To me, you have come across as an eloquent, practical, yet maybe, driven person. 

The CF is as good as it is, (IMHO), because the CF doesn't just accept anyone with a pulse.

If you Popeye your shit up, (I Yam what I Yam)....and go for it, to H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS with what “popular opinion” dictates.


You being in the ARMY/AIRFORCE/NAVY will not dictate who you are, or your Ideology.
Nor will it affect your family or friends.
My bestest, most bff ever, (went to school together from daycare through completion of High School, plus a pretty good punk drummer, too), joined up as a Sapper, dude went to Bosnia. He’s on his 6th or 7th year with our fine Country’s  RCMP.
Never saw that coming.
All I had for him back in the day was all that “teenage-angst, you’re a tool of THE MAN”, kinda crap.
When he found out I joined the Pres (in 2006, when I was 26 years young)...he sent me an email with the subject line...(HaHaHa...fascist!)

To him, I came on board.
To me, I growed up.

(That was a long-ass post, sorry)


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## Kat Stevens

EastVan said:
			
		

> The thing is, in Vancouver, There is a huge difference between the east and west side. Thus you are either defined as a 'west side kid' (Rich) or an 'east side kid' (poor). To give everyone an Idea; Westies are busted by the cops for smoking pot on the beach and Easties are busted for selling pot on the beach. I'm lucky to have gotten out of the latter, but am stuck with the former. This means being held to a standard post graduation that most of these kids experience. (Travel to Europe-come back and tell everyone about it-go to shows and parties-broke-student loan-degree-debt-meaningless, stressful job.) Not for me. Maybe it's a 'calling'? ;D



Gibsons, actually.  Probably where all the pot the Easties were selling to the Westies came from.


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## Hammer Sandwich

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Gibsons, actually.  Probably where all the pot the Easties were selling to the Westies came from.



Shhhhh.....Gibson's is still "non-premium" out East...
They don't know RYE yet...

Dude.... 8)


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## EpicBeardedMan

medicineman said:
			
		

> With or without gun racks?
> 
> MM



Hahahahahaha!  :blotto:


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## Pusser

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Gibsons, actually.  Probably where all the pot the Easties were selling to the Westies came from.



I remember going to Gibsons with the Navy.  Such and interesting experience!  In those days, you only went on a Thursday as that was the day they brought a stripper (one girl - multiple sets) into the pub and it was ladies night (i.e. male strippers) at the cabaret down the street.  All the guys would go to the pub until about 10:00 pm and then migrate to the cabaret.  The best part was that the duty watch would not be left out.  With the ship tied up at the jetty (near Molly's Reach) you could see the stripper at the pub through the big bay window by using binoculars from the quarterdeck or even better by using the "big eyes" on the bridge wing.


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## Vimy_gunner

EastVan said:
			
		

> Hi! first time post here (hope this is in the right category).
> 
> So, a couple months ago I had revealed to my mother and step dad that I had plans to work in the army, more specifically the infantry(I'm 17 now). This is something I had always seen myself doing, ever since I was little.
> 
> Their response was not at all what I expected. They weren't proud, concerned for my safety, or even interested as to why I had made this decision. The first thing that came out of my mother's mouth was "People who join the military generally aren't very smart. What followed soon after were rants on how I should go to culinary school (I don't cook, I work in a restaurant and it sucks!), how soldiers are enforcers of American foreign policy, how I could be doing better things with my life and how the military will brainwash me (I found this kind of ironic).
> 
> I didn't expect their responses to be overwhelmingly positive, but I was surprised by this. I guess they want me to lead a 'normal' life. It got me wondering though, what is with the negative stigma attached to the Canadian Military? Everyone thinks I will be killed immediately, be brainwashed, or that I'm wasting time that could be spent in college. And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?



Interesting topic on the viewpoint of Canadians in general. My own mom asked me WHY when I said I wanted to join, but never went as far as saying it's where 'stupid' people are employed, she's just concerned that I'm not going to come back home in one piece. Now, having said that I think your mom may actually be calling army personell 'unintelligent due to the fact that many outside the realm of the Canadian Armed Forces believe that war is a waste of time and most would just assume not send anyone to afghanistan. Since many Canadians think war is stupid, they might just be inferring that the only people who would volunteer for such a 'stupid' cause would be unintelligent people. It may not be that your mom thinks all soldiers are stupid. She may just be thinking war is stupid and drawing a correlation between the two. Kinda similar to how people stereotype athletes as all having the jock like mentality and not very book smart. 

My best advice is to draw the correlation between yourself being a smart future soldier and ask her if you're intelligent and joining up, then there must be more. Pretty sure mommy is going to change her tone the second you imply that she's calling you anouther stupid soldier. You'll also soon realize that your choices are your choices and I can guarantee this won't be the last time your parents disagree with something you do! They'll eventually, if they're good parents realize that you're your own person and quite honestly there is no greater honour than serving your country. 
My mom asked me if I knew that I might die, almost as if the though the thought hadn't crossed my mind. I said you don't join the army because you're worried about dieing. Today she helped me contact a family friend to finalize my references 

To sum it up, sometimes you just need to be straight with your parents and tell them the real reason you're joining. Hopefully it's not just to blow stuff up and to get your first confirmed kill. 
Something you could mention and show to your mom is some of the high tech equipment that these unintelligent soldiers use. Some of it worth more than a lifetime's salary.


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## thewildandelusivebacon

Wow does she realize that alot MOSs require a univeristy degre?  Also I think is getting the canadian forces mixed up with:


America, forcing democracy uppon countries since 1779


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## vonGarvin

thewildandelusivebacon said:
			
		

> Wow does she realize that alot MOSs require a univeristy degre?  Also I think is getting the canadian forces mixed up with:
> 
> 
> America, forcing democracy uppon countries since 1779


I hope you realise that spelling, punctuation and proper use of grammar is also the hallmark of the Canadian Soldier, but anti-American rants aren't so popular here.  Perhaps you have us mistaken for these guys...


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## thewildandelusivebacon

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I hope you realise that spelling, punctuation and proper use of grammar is also the hallmark of the Canadian Soldier, but anti-American rants aren't so popular here.  Perhaps you have us mistaken for these guys...





I was just joking. I have tons of USA relatives. As for the spelling, I came in from out side and by hands where frozen solid.


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## Ex-Dragoon

thewildandelusivebacon said:
			
		

> I was just joking. I have tons of USA relatives. As for the spelling, I came in from out side and by hands where frozen solid.



That was your freebie...your next joke (if in violation of the Forum Guidelines as this one is) will get you a Verbal Warning or more.

Milnet.Ca Staff


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## dinicthus

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Hell, we had an Officer who actually designed a piece of equipment that is currently on the ISS! Why he's in the Military I have no idea....I think it's the challenge.



I think it's because having a talent to do one thing does not change your fundamental drive to do that which you truly love, to do that which you truly ARE.


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## curious george

Speaking of military stereotypes, what are your thoughts?  A civilian friend told me that the military is downright wrong for me because a) You need to be "rough" and,  b)  You'll be harrassed by lesbians.  Strangely, my mom also told me that soldiers are so "rough". She said, "Be careful, you'll be dealing with some very 'rough' people."   ;D  


I have already met a few civilized people in the CF.  They are no more "rough" than people I have met throughout my life, but people will naturally be "rough" when the occasion calls for it.  My understanding is that the CF hires people according to their potential to do the job well, rather than "rough" personality types.  CF members are not all "rough" and not all lesbians.  Nor are all lesbians "rough".  What's "rough" anyways?


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## RCDtpr

It's a well known fact that when you walk into the recruiting centre you are challenged to a fight.  If you win the fight you are offered a job......if you lose you are not considered "rough" enough for the military and you are kindly asked to leave.

Seriously....the military is no different than anywhere else.  You have all kinds of types of people and personalities.  And as for having lesbians....there are some but who cares?  I don't know why you think they would harass you in anyway.

My advice is to you is to goto a recruiting centre and see for yourself what kinds of things the CF can offer.  Oh and stop listening to you friend.  He/she sounds like a doorknob


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## PMedMoe

RCDcpl said:
			
		

> Oh and stop listening to you friend.  He/she sounds like a doorknob



 :ditto:


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## George Wallace

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> RCDcpl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and stop listening to you friend.  He/she sounds like a doorknob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :ditto:
Click to expand...


:ditto:


Oh!   And ditto for your Mom.  She obviously has a problem with bias as well.


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## PMedMoe

And most of us aren't "rough".  Rough around the edges maybe......


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## medicineman

curious george said:
			
		

> Speaking of military stereotypes, what are your thoughts?  A civilian friend... Strangely, my mom also told me...



My thoughts - find a new friend, and possibly start tuning mom out as well.  Just saying...

Seriously though - best to base your opinions on actual experience in the matter rather than perceptions.  The military generally hires a cross section of society, and you'll find that some folks are quite genteel and you'd never guess are military, others are slightly off kilter and others still are like sand paper...and you'll find everything in between.  No different than walking into a classroom, bar or a mall anywhere in the country.

 :2c:

MM


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## Remius

Having had some experience in CF recruiting here are some of the stereotypes that Canadians have of us.  Due to bad tv, what they see in the US and other sources.

1- We are not allowed to vote
2- You can avoid jail time by agreeing to serve in the CF
3- We have a don't ask don't tell policy
4- We target the poor
5- The CF pays for everything
6- We brainwash people
7- We deployed to Iraq
8- Instructors can beat their recruits
9- You don't need an education to join
10- We are desperate and take anyone

This is just a handfull


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## Journeyman

Crantor said:
			
		

> 1- We are not allowed to vote
> 2- You can avoid jail time by agreeing to serve in the CF
> 3- We have a don't ask don't tell policy
> 4- We target the poor
> 5- The CF pays for everything
> 6- We brainwash people
> 7- We deployed to Iraq
> 8- Instructors can beat their recruits
> 9- You don't need an education to join
> 10- We are desperate and take anyone


So you can see, roving lesbian gangs are the _least_ of your worries.   :nod:


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## armyvern

11 - We don't pay taxes
12 - We live for free in CF houses (PMQs)




(Oh, and number two used to hold true ... if my father will still alive he could attest to that)


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## 211RadOp

But we do get out of jury duty.


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## Pat in Halifax

And we get 15% off at McDs and Burger King don't forget!

Bottom line (and I think someone said this already), the CF is an extension of Canadian Society. The question is how do you tell the general population (or do you bother) this?


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## armyvern

Damn. I'm a girl in the CF and have never once been harassed, stalked, or otherwise approached, by any roving gangs of CF lesbians. Therefore, I'm pretty certain all you men in the world are quite safe.

Who knew??


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## Tank Troll

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Damn. I'm a girl in the CF and have never once been harassed, stalked, or otherwise approached, by any roving gangs of CF lesbians. Therefore, I'm pretty certain all you men in the world are quite safe.
> 
> Who knew??



I think you have to play on the broomball team thats where they all are :


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## brihard

curious george said:
			
		

> and,  b)  You'll be harrassed by lesbians.



I hear ya. The damned recruiter got me with that one too.


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## Remius

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Damn. I'm a girl in the CF and have never once been harassed, stalked, or otherwise approached, by any roving gangs of CF lesbians. Therefore, I'm pretty certain all you men in the world are quite safe.
> 
> Who knew??



I thought all girls in the CF were lesbians thus part of the roving gangs. All of this makes sense since none of us are allowed to get married.


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## armyvern

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> I think you have to play on the broomball team thats where they all are :



Another stereotype I see (actually, I _know_ it's another).


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## armyvern

Brihard said:
			
		

> I hear ya. The damned recruiter got me with that one too.



LMAO. +300 for the laugh.  ;D


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## Jed

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> I think you have to play on the broomball team thats where they all are :



You are an evil man, Tank Troll, with a long memory. >


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## curious george

Thanks for chiming in everyone.  I think the images on tv may have something to do with their narrow perception.  i wish I had said, "Oh, I can't wait to be harrassed," just for the shock value.  Alas, I did not have the "rough" factor in me to blurt it out.


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## Remius

You can however tell your friends that those in teh military are probably more sarcastic though than the general population.  >


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## TN2IC

Journeyman said:
			
		

> So you can see, roving lesbian gangs are the _least_ of your worries.   :nod:



 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


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## aesop081

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Damn. I'm a girl in the CF and have never once been harassed, *stalked*, or otherwise approached,



Guess i did a good job hiding then.

Who knew.


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## Journeyman

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Damn. I'm a girl in the CF and have never once been harassed, *stalked*, or otherwise approached,


It's probably not a typo for "stocked"...







....since she likely has.   >


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## Loachman

That looks like it ties (clamps?) in well with the "rum, sodomy, and the lash" thing that somebody didn't post about.


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## GAP

Loachman said:
			
		

> That looks like it ties (clamps?) in well with the "rum, sodomy, and the lash" thing that somebody didn't post about.



Awh.....you just want something to hold'm still!!  ;D


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## Jed

I thought that was what rubber boots were for? :camo:


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## GAP

Jed said:
			
		

> I thought that was what rubber boots were for? :camo:



I'll bow to experience (as long as I don't have to put my feet into boots).......but, doesn't that limit movement?  ;D


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## armyvern

GAP said:
			
		

> I'll bow to experience (as long as I don't have to put my feet into boots).......but, doesn't that limit movement?  ;D



I'm here to tell you that boots - especially the tall type - in no way limit movement. Do not.  8)

And, for Journeyman's sake - neither do *stocks*, nor bonds.  ;D


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## Wookilar

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm here to tell you that boots - especially the tall type - in no way limit movement. Do not.  8)





Wook


----------



## Pusser

I remember a young lady naval cadet (still at RMC) asking me about being assaulted by lesbians in one of HMC Ships (she was under the impression that it was commonplace).  I assured her that life on board was not like that - no matter how much I might wish it  ;D

OK, so I left out the part about me wishing it.  I was in a mentorship role after all.  Still, we're all entitled to our private fantasies...


----------



## RCDtpr

I don't get why younger female recruits are so concerned with getting "harassed" by lesbians.  If I were a female and just wanted to do my job without being bothered and hit on....I'd be far more concerned when it's time to go out into the field or on tour with a bunch of combat arms guys who haven't seen a female in weeks/months.


----------



## armyvern

RCDcpl said:
			
		

> ...I'd be far more concerned when it's time to go out into the field or on tour with a bunch of combat arms guys who haven't seen a female in weeks/months.



Also nothing that she'd need to be concerned with.


----------



## Kirkhill

GAP said:
			
		

> I'll bow to experience (as long as I don't have to put my feet into boots).......but, doesn't that limit movement?  ;D



I'd be careful where you bow..... otherwise nobody will be needing any boots.


----------



## RCDtpr

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Also nothing that she'd need to be concerned with.



True..but from my experience I've seen some of the ladies out there who just want to say read in peace and can't because everyone and their mother is trying to chat her up.

Wasn't referring to harassment so much as potentially being annoyed.


----------



## curious george

I happened to read a shocking statistic (about sexual assault numbers) in an article on the CBC website (something about US army and marines are exhausted from two too long wars).  I'm sure Canada looks after its soldiers so that things like that don't happen.


----------



## Journeyman

In the CF, the worst that can happen is potentially being annoyed.   

We're a kinder, gentler army.   :nod:


----------



## curious george

I geuss that backs up PMedMoe who said, "And most of us aren't rough'."


----------



## Journeyman

:dunno:   I'm just going by what RCDcpl said.


----------



## PMedMoe

curious george said:
			
		

> I geuss that backs up PMedMoe who said, "And most of us aren't rough'."



Guess that depends on your definition of rough.

This one could apply to several of us:  	informal - ill or physically upset: he felt rough after an evening of heavy drinking    :blotto:


----------



## Tank Troll

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Guess that depends on your definition of rough.
> 
> This one could apply to several of us:  	informal - ill or physically upset: he felt rough after an evening of heavy drinking    :blotto:



Now that I do know happens :nod:


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Well, the original user who posted the question hasn't been on in a while, but hopefully some newbie (such as myself) might wander around, have a read, and find this useful...

It's been my personal experience that there are stereo-types surrounding practically any profession one might choose. I'm lucky in that no one in my family reacted with a, "Why the hell do you want to do THAT?!?!" (at least to my face) when I told them of my career aspirations. However, there _are_ a few relatives who feel that the definition of 'success' reflects directly upon how many figures make up one's salary, how big a house one has, how pretentious a car one drives, brand names, the richer and snootier the company one keeps, the better, etc., etc.  They would probably prefer I had 'x' amount of letters at the end of my name, working in some fancy _white collar_ profession. Unfortunately for them, I'm a relatively down-to-earth gal who loves sports, swearing, getting dirty, "Keith's" and living life to the fullest.  I consider myself well-rounded in that I can appreciate all aspects of my personal and professional surroundings, as well as that of others, regardless of what they're doing.

Bottom line, you'll never make EVERYone happy.  There are those who feel it's their place to decide what is best for you and to be critical of whatever you do that doesn't fit into their 'idea' of who you are/should be.  So don't listen to those who only want to keep you in _their_ box. Do what makes you happy and do whatever you have to do to get there.  Everything else will work itself out once those around you see how content and happy you are....and ignore the stereotypes...


----------



## daftandbarmy

I've encountered a few military stereotypes recently.

I find that, once civilans find out you have a military background, they automatically assume that you are ethical, competent, trustworthy, self-disciplined, personally courageous, physically strong, a protector of the weak, are a natural born leader and a strong team player, as well as unfailingly reliable and movingly patriotic.

My biggest challenge is living up to that stereotype.  :nod:


----------



## BeyondTheNow

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I've encountered a few military stereotypes recently.
> 
> I find that, once civilans find out you have a military background, they automatically assume that you are ethical, competent, trustworthy, self-disciplined, personally courageous, physically strong, a protector of the weak, are a natural born leader and a strong team player, as well as unfailingly reliable and movingly patriotic.
> 
> My biggest challenge is living up to that stereotype.  :nod:



Absolutely awesome! Yes, it sometimes seems much easier to remember the negative stereotypes associated with things, rather than the positive. Thank you for that spin!


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Speaking of stereotypes, was at the SHOT show, saw a guy with a Handlebar mustache and said to myself; "Must be Brit or Canadian" I was correct "Buyer, Canadian Forces" said his badge.


----------

