# Formal Recognition for Sea Time?



## NCRCrow (17 Feb 2008)

I would like to see some formal recognition for your sea time, maybe an insignia for your DEU or NCD jacket based on 5-12-18 yrs.

Any thoughts?


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## tabernac (17 Feb 2008)

Might be just a civvie, but why start off with 5 years as opposed to 6?


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## NCRCrow (17 Feb 2008)

Sea Time $$$ compensation is broken down into 5-12-18 year increments. Just thought if it was already established why change it.


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## kratz (17 Feb 2008)

Is there formal recognition for FOA, DIV or Air Crew allowance? No, I do not think that another item on the uniform is required to acknowledge allowances.


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## navymich (17 Feb 2008)

It's one thing to have 1...3...15..whatever, years of seatime.  But you will get the people comparing their time to others.  You get some that actually sail for 280 days in a year and then you have those ashore that are still classified as "sea going billets" who must get xx number of days at sea a year to still get their sea pay and you also have pers that are on a TCAT for less then 180 days that still get sea pay.  Are each of these people alike?  Should they each get the same kind of recognition?  (I guess the same could be said for some of the medals they hand out, but that's a different topic  )


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## NCRCrow (17 Feb 2008)

The reason I suggested it might be a pride/retention issue and might instill some pride.

I saw a trucker with a 25 year safe driving badge on his DEU on my ILQ.


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## Michael OLeary (17 Feb 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> I would like to see some formal recognition for your sea time, maybe an insignia for your DEU or NCD jacket based on 5-12-18 yrs.
> 
> Any thoughts?



By "sea time" do you mean "posted to a sea-going ship"?  Would this include refit time which is "ship time"?

Would the army equivalency be "posted to a field unit"?

It strikes me as one more suggestion for an award that can easily divide members between "those who earned it" and "those who didn't" but always leave that large grey zone filled by those who would have earned it by their own choosing but were prevented by circumstances outside their control.  The proposal presumes that all are posted to the types of positions they want at all times and also that only those "pointy end" jobs are important.  It also undermines the importance of posting the best people to schools so that each trade can benefit from their experience and knowledge - as soon as someone avoids such a posting to protect their next "pointy end" award, we've lost a very important component of the whole system.


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## PMedMoe (17 Feb 2008)

+1, Mr. O'Leary.
I have to add that I think it's ridiculous that MSE Ops get safe driving pins.  Do pilots get safe flying pins?  Do medics get "I never killed a patient" pins?  Where does it stop?  IT'S YOUR JOB!
Recognition for a job well done is all good and fine (certificate, whatever), but there's no requirement to display it on your uniform.


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## NCRCrow (17 Feb 2008)

Trust me, people enjoy there shore postings over a pin.

Just thought it might be a motivation tool and instill some personal pride. Should people wear safe driving pins? Ranger insignia..other Country jump wings, my personal opinion is no. But its done and its a source of personal pride for the member. Maybe thats my angle..

Sure there will be gray zones!


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## PMedMoe (17 Feb 2008)

Course qualifications are one thing, but you're looking for recognition for doing your job.  I certainly don't need a pin to instill some personal pride.  I get that every time I put on my uniform.  Combats or DEU.

What about trades that can't get posted to ship?  What do they get?


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## NCRCrow (17 Feb 2008)

Nothing!

in the Navy we have a problem its called retention.


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## Sub_Guy (17 Feb 2008)

Recognition for sea time could easily be done with certificates, but not with a pin on the uniform, I think that's a bit much.  It is my opinion that the fact sea pay jumps with certain milestones is more than enough recognition for me (not that it matters as I am posted LRP, but it works the same for aircrew too). 

Besides I think the regular force would get offended at all the sea time full time naval reserve members rack up, those guys are a busy bunch.   No need for the Naval reservist to be showing up the reg force members with all their bling...


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## Michael OLeary (17 Feb 2008)

If someone has become sufficiently dissatisfied with the Navy (or the CF) that they've decided to leave, I'm not sure telling them that they'll get a lapel pin in another couple of years will encourage them to change their mind.  If retention is a serious issue, then it's time to look at the cultural or organizational issues that are leading to people getting out in droves.


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## NCRCrow (17 Feb 2008)

good point on the Reserves!

would like to hear some ways of keeping sailors. We are certainly paid & fed well.

I am going to bed, I have to sail tomorrow..insert bonamine..and wait for the last minute landing forms to roll in


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## PMedMoe (17 Feb 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Nothing!
> 
> in the Navy we have a problem its called retention.



I think that's a problem in all elements.


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## Monsoon (17 Feb 2008)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Besides I think the regular force would get offended at all the sea time full time naval reserve members rack up, those guys are a busy bunch.   No need for the Naval reservist to be showing up the reg force members with all their bling...


As a MARS shad, I've always found it ironic that if I were to wear a SWASM it would have to be for deploying with the army and working out of trade on the ground in Afghanistan. God knows I can't be trusted to sail operationally and actually put my rather expensive training to work on a frigate for a six month deployment. I know my bridge watchkeeping certificate is only for minor warships, but you can't tell me that someone who already has a BWK wouldn't earn it on a different platform in a month or so of standing one-in-three on the trip over to the gulf; that seems to be the trend amongst my colleagues who have transferred to the reg force in any event.



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I think that's a problem in all elements.


Yeah, but for sheer relentless unpleasantness it's tough to top bouncing around on a ship on the Grand Banks for a few months. As someone who's just returned from Sudan, I can say that even when the conditions were most austere there they were still not quite as miserable as time spent on ship, though that may just reflect personal preference. Being in the field is no tea party, but doing 180+ days at sea for five years straight is a hell of a way to make a living. That being said, I can't say that I agree on a medal based on sea time alone.


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## Navy_Blue (18 Feb 2008)

I am realizing everyone in the commonwealth is having problems keeping there people happy.  The RN lower Decker's are all grumbling the Aussies have no people and we are hurting.  When I did a crosspole with the US though in 2005 they were saying they had a hard time staying in the navy.  The US wanted them to transfer to something green.  

As far as keeping us.  

I think Solid course recignition not giving us all but 2 or 3 courses.  If I give the CF 20 or god help me 35 years I don't want to be a commissionar.  Professional development should be encouraged more (problem is people abuse it).  MOG5's CO seems very keen and accommodating for that.   With the RN MarEng people train to be full engineers and the lower Decker's do some of the same courses our MSEO's come over here for.

Everyone praises our pension but they toned that down with 25 years thing.  I'm starting to wonder if it is as competitive as it was.  Enviro Allowances and Specialty pays like Diver and Subs should be included in it.    

Retention Pay...the RN is looking at as much as £50000 (not dollars) to remain in the navy and in Subs.   

People felt allot of pride being a member of the Airborn and the Sub Squadron they were Elite and it was taken from them.  I think members of our JTF must feel a certain amount of pride being apart of an operationally elite unit.  More units should be recognized for there unique training and operational hardships.  

This is just my thoughts.


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## PMedMoe (18 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I think that's a problem in all elements.





			
				hamiltongs said:
			
		

> Yeah, but for sheer relentless unpleasantness it's tough to top bouncing around on a ship on the Grand Banks for a few months. As someone who's just returned from Sudan, I can say that even when the conditions were most austere there they were still not quite as miserable as time spent on ship, though that may just reflect personal preference. Being in the field is no tea party, but doing 180+ days at sea for five years straight is a hell of a way to make a living. That being said, I can't say that I agree on a medal based on sea time alone.



I agree but I still don't think a pin on the uniform is going to help that.


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## navymich (18 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I agree but I still don't think a pin on the uniform is going to help that.



I can see it now: member gets pin, forgets to put pin on uniform one day, gets picked up by the Coxn for being out of dress, gets extra duty watches as punishment...now THAT would be a morale booster!  :


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## jollyjacktar (18 Feb 2008)

airmich said:
			
		

> I can see it now: member gets pin, forgets to put pin on uniform one day, gets picked up by the Coxn for being out of dress, gets extra duty watches as punishment...now THAT would be a morale booster!  :



Haha, sure can tell what coast you sailed on Mich.  That sums up BC for me.


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## Stoker (18 Feb 2008)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> As a MARS shad, I've always found it ironic that if I were to wear a SWASM it would have to be for deploying with the army and working out of trade on the ground in Afghanistan. God knows I can't be trusted to sail operationally and actually put my rather expensive training to work on a frigate for a six month deployment. I know my bridge watchkeeping certificate is only for minor warships, but you can't tell me that someone who already has a BWK wouldn't earn it on a different platform in a month or so of standing one-in-three on the trip over to the gulf; that seems to be the trend amongst my colleagues who have transferred to the reg force in any event.
> Yeah, but for sheer relentless unpleasantness it's tough to top bouncing around on a ship on the Grand Banks for a few months. As someone who's just returned from Sudan, I can say that even when the conditions were most austere there they were still not quite as miserable as time spent on ship, though that may just reflect personal preference. Being in the field is no tea party, but doing 180+ days at sea for five years straight is a hell of a way to make a living. That being said, I can't say that I agree on a medal based on sea time alone.



Consider yourself lucky that you could deploy to the Sudan for a tour, a lot of people on the minor warships won't be even looked at by NAVRES for an opportunity to deploy overseas. I know in my billet we are short so many people right now, if I don't sail the ship doesn't sail. As for sailing on frigates its true that they won't let you sail because most MARS bunks are filled with regs going for their ticket. Now if you want to sail operationally do the nav course and you'll spend time on a CPF during the sea phase.  If you're still dying for operational time take a contract as a BWK on a MCDV, lots of billets available.


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## Disenchantedsailor (18 Feb 2008)

Keep in mind here folks that for the reg force (can't speak for the mcdv's I never sailed on one) but for the reg force most of that time is spent out of Canada, maybe instead of a time at sea service pin we amend the requirements for tour medals to be inclusive from say 2 days out of home port until 2 days before arriving home. It's been a long held bone in the navy that they sail for 6-7 months and have nothing to show for the operation they were involved in.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Feb 2008)

I don't know from billets, NAVRES, minor or major warships. If you guys can work out the details to be equitable and inclusive, you get my support, even if it's academic.


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## navymich (18 Feb 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I don't know from billets, NAVRES, minor or major warships. If you guys can work out the details to be equitable and inclusive, you get my support, even if it's academic.



For Navres: if you are posted to an MCDV, you are given a class C contract for 1,2 or 3 years.  Being posted to the MCDV, you are given sea pay at the same time.  That is, if you are there for 2 years you get 2 years sea pay as you go.  If you are on a Class B contract, you get sea pay for the time you are on an MCDV as well, as long as it is a sea going MCDV (ie, not the 'down boat').  If you are Class A (and this often works for Class B as well), you get sea pay as you go.  This is also known as Casual Sea Duty.

Overall, it would be equal to a reg force member posted to a ship.  On a reservists MPRR it states the number of years and days of sea pay.  This is totaled by the length of time you were posted to a ship and is regardless of how many days the ship actually sailed.  I have seen a section (in EMAA somewhere, I think?) where it states your time away.  But that would be hard to tally, because it goes by days away from Home Port and therefore, day sails would not count.  For those that are aware of the often horrific sailing schedule of an MCDV, you would know how many days are in and out, constantly, for days on end, and those days would not be counted.

I think that to properly justify days and make it "equitable and inclusive" as recceguy has suggested, would be an absolute nightmare!


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## IntlBr (18 Feb 2008)

I only support this if we can somehow swing a Field Operational Time pin/medal/neck-badge to go along with the CAB.

 :-[


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## Sig_Des (18 Feb 2008)

I don't get it.

If you're Navy, I'm sure you can expect to go to sea, and then you get paid to go to sea.

I'm Army. Should I get an extra pin to take care of on my uniform if I go to the field? I get paid more for going to the field. And since I'm army, I have an expectation of field time.

If I was Air Force, I'd expect to be able to fly. And hey, I'd get paid more to fly!

Between all the new badges, pins, whatevers, I'm getting a little sick and tired of people wanting these pay-attention-to-me, love-me accoutrement's.


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## Monsoon (18 Feb 2008)

Stoker said:
			
		

> Consider yourself lucky that you could deploy to the Sudan for a tour, a lot of people on the minor warships won't be even looked at by NAVRES for an opportunity to deploy overseas.


I consider myself quite fortunate. As far as out-of-element deployment opportunities go, it seems to be actually harder for regular force navy folks to do this sort of thing. At least a reservist can pull the plug and then apply for a deployment from class A; the reg force guys are always in a job where it's "absolutely critical" that they stay there, whether it's onboard ship or shuffling leave passes ashore. I only met one reg force navy guy over there (his previous job was as the manning tasker responsible for selecting people for such missions), but several NAVRES guys.



> If you're still dying for operational time take a contract as a BWK on a MCDV, lots of billets available.


I meant operational deployment with a CEFCOM mission. I've done the MCDV circuit: my original point was that it's pretty damned thankless work.


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## George Wallace (18 Feb 2008)

Is not the uniform you wear, not a 'badge' enough?


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## Monsoon (18 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Is not the uniform you wear, not a 'badge' enough?


Did not you read what I wrote before?



> I can't say that I agree on a medal based on sea time


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## Stoker (18 Feb 2008)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> I consider myself quite fortunate. As far as out-of-element deployment opportunities go, it seems to be actually harder for regular force navy folks to do this sort of thing. At least a reservist can pull the plug and then apply for a deployment from class A; the reg force guys are always in a job where it's "absolutely critical" that they stay there, whether it's onboard ship or shuffling leave passes ashore. I only met one reg force navy guy over there (his previous job was as the manning tasker responsible for selecting people for such missions), but several NAVRES guys.
> I meant operational deployment with a CEFCOM mission. I've done the MCDV circuit: my original point was that it's pretty damned thankless work.



I guess the problem is that we shouldn't have to "pull the plug" to go class A and then apply, also it takes time to apply for the tasking. If you are relying on a paycheck its pretty hard. As for thankless work I agree at times it seems to be, but that's the nature of the beast.


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## Stoker (18 Feb 2008)

airmich said:
			
		

> I have seen a section (in EMAA somewhere, I think?) where it states your time away.  But that would be hard to tally, because it goes by days away from Home Port and therefore, day sails would not count.



The COXN now sends in a report to MARLANT on time spent away from home port, I believe its broken down into actual days spent away from home and so forth.


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## cobbler (19 Feb 2008)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> I don't get it.
> 
> If you're Navy, I'm sure you can expect to go to sea, and then you get paid to go to sea.
> 
> ...



I think people should be recognised for their sea time. Because frankly, those who rack up the years at sea deserve to get recognised for it.

For the jobs where the majority of your careers will be spent in a sea going billet, you will spend 6 months a year, just about every year, at sea on a 1 in 3 watchbill, then when alongside, you will be duty maybe one night per week (on top of working days). 

Now compare this to somebody in a trade that never, or very very rarely goes to sea

They will maybe do 2 nights of duty per month, and some of those types complain when they get less than 8 hours sleep on a day of duty. And thats land based duty, no DCEXs, no drunks coming back onboard. The worst thats likely to happen is some fool locks themselves out of their accomodation.

Sorry, but if you rack up years of sea service, you damn sure deserve to wear something that says it, because you are different from a non sea-goer.

In the RAN we have Individual Readiness badges. If you are fit to go to sea (medically, physically, up to date on training, etc) you wear the badge. There are 4 different tiers depending on sea time served. 






The badges are rather small, worn immediatly above the name tag on the right breast.


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## Sig_Des (19 Feb 2008)

cobbler said:
			
		

> I think people should be recognised for their sea time. Because frankly, those who rack up the years at sea deserve to get recognised for it.
> 
> Sorry, but if you rack up years of sea service, you damn sure deserve to wear something that says it, because you are different from a non sea-goer.



I appreciate that some people rack up sea time as opposed to those who don't have the billets.

But, by your reasoning, you open up the floodgates. People who rack up time in the field (And we don't get any 10 o'clock soup or beer machines!) should have a badge.

Flight Crew who rack up hours in the air should get a badge.

To me, just like a CAB, the intent may be a recognition, but IMHO, it would just perpetuate a "I'm better than you because I have this pin" mentality among many.


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## PO2FinClk (19 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Do pilots get safe flying pins?





			
				Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Flight Crew who rack up hours in the air should get a badge.



Just to ensure everyone is on the same page, Aircrew (Pilot, Nav, FE’s, AESOP’s) do wear a badge displaying cumulative amounts of hours on their flight suits.

I am neither for or against this idea, however some folks have mentioned it could result in "false advertisement" leading to dissent (perhaps a bit strong but you get the idea). Once again Aircrew & MSE OP's have been wearing these badges/insignia's for as long as I can remember and have not resulted in any of this. So perhaps that rationale could be somewhat flawed IMHO


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## aesop081 (19 Feb 2008)

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> Just to ensure everyone is on the same page, Aircrew (Pilot, Nav, FE’s, AESOP’s) do wear a badge displaying cumulative amounts of hours on their flight suits.



Just to clarify, not all aircrew communities have those " xxxxxx 1000 hours" badges. And for those that do, the member buys it out of his own pocket. Just like all the other badges we have on the flight suit.


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## cobbler (20 Feb 2008)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> I appreciate that some people rack up sea time as opposed to those who don't have the billets.
> 
> But, by your reasoning, you open up the floodgates. People who rack up time in the field (And we don't get any 10 o'clock soup or beer machines!) should have a badge.
> 
> ...



Maybe if a field time badge existed it wouldn't be such a bad thing. (frankly i dont see how flight hours compares).

I will say that I have only once witnessed a lower tier sea badge being commented on, and in that instance it was justified, not a superiority mentalitity or anything. 

Each to their own i suppose.


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## NCRCrow (22 Feb 2008)

After the Sea State this week, I deserve a medal and the MCDV's a battle honour!

The Bering Sea had nothing on the North Atlantic this week!


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## Cronicbny (23 Feb 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> After the Sea State this week, I deserve a medal and the MCDV's a battle honour!
> 
> The Bering Sea had nothing on the North Atlantic this week!



That nice out eh? Glad to see you made it back in one piece!


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## NCRCrow (24 Feb 2008)

going out this week sometime looking for SS6!

The MCDV's are the true warriors of the North Atlantic!


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## armyvern (24 Feb 2008)

I move that Supply Techs receive buttons and bows for each 6 month period served working in clothing stores -- definitely a hostile environment and not as "cushy" a go as my sergeants recent 6 month deployment in the Sudan ("quite the cushy go" -- his words not mine).  ;D


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## armyvern (24 Feb 2008)

PS: Don't sailors already get the SSM (NATO), or SWASM for their tours to the Gulf etc?? You asking for recognition for a sail to southern waters where you get to enjoy stop-overs at ports while making your way to the warmest ship-painting location available and find the bars ashore (thus coming back aboard hammered and busying the duty watch guy who has to put up with you while standing duty 1 in 3 like stated in the post below  )??

Yes, I know you only get the medal once, but then ... so do the soldiers who earn them without access to racks, beers in the Mess, warm soup at 10 etc etc. You bounch around on the water while they are humping their asses and their rucks and their weapons and ammo in austere & miserable condition at 50 degress -- sometimes even while being shot at!!  

This expectation that we need buttons and bows and whistles to further recognize that which is already recognized, and for doing our damn jobs is becoming way too much. I think it's pretty sad, and I think it reveals much about a slide in the _formerly known as _ silent professionalism of the CF.

Sailing -- is a sailors job. You do a tour -- you get a damn medal, just like everyone else. 

And, I also put forth a motion that the pins worn by truckers be removed from the uniform. Trucking is their job. It's akin to an Infanteer being given a button that says "bullet free body for 25 years!!" I avoided that which I am SUPPOSED to avoid. Cripes, I know regular folks (not truckers) who have had 404s for decades and have never had a driving accident either -- but they don't get the damn tacky things. (Bulletmagnet, Tess -- others ... need not apply). Fuck.


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## axeman (24 Feb 2008)

;D WHOOT  Army Vern [female type]. that's calling a spade a spade not only does the navy get soup . lunch ,Sea pay etc but now they want a pin for saying XX years in an Operational Unit . well what about 75% of the army types being in Operational Units too . Do they get pins and all the aforementioned stuff ?  Man can you imagine all the soldiers  getting all this dropped on em ?jeez where does it  quit?

 :crybaby:

edited for spelling


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## armyvern (24 Feb 2008)

axeman said:
			
		

> ;D WHOOT  Army vern [female type]. thats calling a spade a spade not only does the navy get soup . lunch ,Sea pay  etc but now they want a pin for saying XX years in aOperational Unit . well what about 75% of the army  types being in Operational Units too  . Do they get pins and all the aformentioned stuff ?  Man can you imagiane all the soldiers  getting all this droped on em ?jeez where does it  quit?
> 
> :crybaby:



Well, to be fair about the sea pay -- field pay for soldiers has now _FINALLY _ come on par with them. About friggin' time too.

No, those soldiers don't get pins to recognize their miserable time spent soaking wet, knee-deep in mud or swamps in Gagetown (or anywhere else for that matter). Or to recognize months on end spent in the field living nastily working up in order to deploy. Nor do they receive pins for freezing their asses off doing sovereignty foot patrols in the Arctic while living outside in tents at -40 for weeks on end. Sailors do indeed do sovereignty patrols too, once again with that access to soup and 3 nice warm-square meals a day, booze in the mess and nice warm racks to crawl into when the time comes that the soldiers don't enjoy as benefits while doing their job.

Same with fisheries patrols. All covered under Canada's National Security Policy, the National Defence Act, and the Fisheries Act as being one of the raisons d'etre for the CFs very existence. Security of the Nation, Her resources and Her citizens being one of the big three. We are asking for pins for doing our damn jobs that we swore to do!! I have issues with that (can you tell??).

We are extremely hurting for soldiers these days though, perhaps some of those leaving the Navy _in droves _ should consider the more cushy go here in the Army if it's so bad in their current environment.

Cripes people -- army guys do their jobs; sailors do their jobs, and airmen/women do their jobs. Stop the madness -- we are all supposed to be on the same fucking team.


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## Michael OLeary (24 Feb 2008)

ArmyVern (Female type) said:
			
		

> No, those soldiers don't get pins to recognize their miserable time spent soaking wet, knee-deep in mud or swamps in Gagetown (or anywhere else for that matter). Or to recognize months on end spent in the field living nastily working up in order to deploy. Nor do they receive pins for freezing their asses off doing sovereignty foot patrols in the Arctic while living outside in tents at -40 for weeks on end. Sailors do indeed do sovereignty patrols too, once again with that access to soup and 3 nice warm-square meals a day, booze in the mess and nice warm racks to crawl into when the time comes that the soldiers don't enjoy as benefits while doing their job.



If you want pins to advertise the dedication and effects others don't see, how about these:

The "I've been geographically posted _X_ times" pin.

The "I've made my kids move _X_ times" pin.

The "Thanks to the job, I've been divorced _X_ times" pins.


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## armyvern (24 Feb 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> If you want pins to advertise the dedication and effects others don't see, how about these:
> 
> The "I've been geographically posted _X_ times" pin.



Whooo Hooo: 10 !!! (Caveat -- do three seperate postings to Gagetown count as only "1" or "3"?? -- We will need to sort stuff like this out first!!)



> The "I've made my kids move _X_ times" pin.



Whoo Hooo: 7!! (maybe this pin should rightfully be presented to my beautiful and wonderful children??  :-\ )



> The "Thanks to the job, I've been divorced _X_ times" pins.



Whoo Hooo: No comment!!

Does this mean that the Army will now also issue me the chest to pin them all on!!?? It's only fair. I am deserving. It's an undue hardship for girls like me being without one given that other Allied & Commonwealth Forces pay for their women to obtain chests.


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## axeman (24 Feb 2008)

Now Now !!!   lets play nice after all all the green types should be able to get the  Ive been to WATC  X times pin  after all after the move from Esquimalt to Chilliwack to Edmonton pins are distributed  along with the X # yrs in a Operational type billet  . I want mine they would look so cool on my now naval uniform . ;D


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## George Wallace (24 Feb 2008)

axeman said:
			
		

> Now Now !!!   lets play nice after all all the green types should be able to get the  Ive been to WATC  X times pin  after all after the move from Esquimalt to Chilliwack to Edmonton pins are distributed  along with the X # yrs in a Operational type billet  . I want mine they would look so cool on my now naval uniform . ;D



I have a stetson that I collect all my pins on.    ;D


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## NCRCrow (24 Feb 2008)

Vern, you sound so jealous!

But what's really funny is the army wants a CAB badge! Is not everybody at KAF on the same team.

But the reality is that 10 per cent of the Navy has been to Afghanistan or Sudan. 

The idea was brought forward by myself as a way of instilling some pride and retention.

Edited": by me


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## armyvern (24 Feb 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Vern, you sound so jealous!


Only if your boobs are bigger than mine.  :



> But really funny is the army wants a CAB badge! Is not everybody at KAF on the same team.


Hmmm, my thoughts on whether I think the CAB/CIB is necessary are found in it's thread. That being said ... I'll break it to you gently: there is a huge difference between engaging on a two-way firing range while directly engaging an enemy ... and doing a .50 cal night shoot over the edge of the Winnipeg off the coast of Hawaii, getting dolled up for crossing-the-line, wearing plastic bowls as a cocnut bra in honour of Neptune ... etc etc. NOT comparable at all. 

As for the CAB -- if your ship found itself directly involved in an engagement action (not a naval boarding party) with an enemy off the coast of Dubaii etc ... you'd most likely also be eligible to wear a CAB. Who said it was going to be limited to the Army?



> But the reality is that 10 per cent of the Navy has been to Afghanistan or Sudan.


And here's the reality of that: they got medals for it didn't they!!?? Just like the army and the air types.

You're asking for buttons/bows/pins for doing SOVPATs etc for crying out loud. Those are not limited to the Navy -- what makes you think the Navy deserves recognition for doing their jobs in this case? And, just what the heck makes you think that a 10 cent pin will assist your retention rate??

Same with Fisheries patrols?? DFO guys do that too!! Why would the Navy get pins and them not?? 

I have ZERO bias against the Navy -- I am the daughter of a very proud sailor.



> Storesman should get a pin that says "You're not entitled"!



There's always one that says "I got this pin because I am _special_" too.  :

Guess what?? No one in the CF is special, not any more so than the next guy/gal; depsite how much you wish it were true.


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## Sig_Des (24 Feb 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> The idea was brought forward by myself as a way of instilling some pride and retention.



I think it's been brought up, but for me, the pride is putting on that uniform everyday.


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## PMedMoe (24 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I certainly don't need a pin to instill some personal pride.  I get that every time I put on my uniform.  Combats or DEU.



Yep, I said that back on page one of this thread.


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## Sig_Des (24 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Yep, I said that back on page one of this thread.



Cheers...BTW, You in Kingston End Mar early Apr? I'll be there drinkin'....er...playing hockey then


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## Melbatoast (5 Mar 2008)

airmich said:
			
		

> I have seen a section (in EMAA somewhere, I think?) where it states your time away.



Yeah, it's called Perstempo and it's the least accurate thing I've ever seen.  It has me with a total of 180 days away over the course of my _career_, while the reality is that I was away 210 days last calendar year alone.  And about the same the 4 years prior to that...(I think the most was 227 in 2003 - maybe 272.  Whatever).

As to the subject at hand, I'm not particularly keen on a "sea time" badge.  People tend to know who has how much time at sea, and a lot of guys probably try to forget it   

What I would like to see is the re-incorporation of your trade badge on NCDs.  I really don't know why there isn't one in the first place - even slapping a DEU collar dog somewhere on your NCD jacket could do it if budget was a concern.  I would honestly feel a little more proud if there was some indication of what I do, on my day-to-day wear.


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