# Canadian weapons



## Travis Silcox (4 Dec 2000)

okay folks, earlier we were talking about replacing the C7, what about the C6 or C9?

should canada have a standardized shotgun for CQB purposes?

should canada have switched from FN to C7?


----------



## GPMG (6 Dec 2000)

Canada does have two types of Remington 870 shotguns. One is a full stock version, the other is a metal folding stock version. I doubt that a typical grunt would see them for FIBUA operations though.

C6 - I don‘t see a particular need to replace them. They are probably one of the most reliable and accurate machine guns out there. The only downside is that it is a bit on the heavy side compare to other 7.62 LMGs

C9 - Go back to the iron sights and you‘d have a good weapon


----------



## Travis Silcox (6 Dec 2000)

Cool


I heard from several people that the electronic sights on the machine guns were more of a bother if anything, and that they got in the way too much. 

personally i haven‘t used a C7 yet, so this is all 2nd hand info , but do you think the sight is decent?


----------



## Mud Crawler (6 Dec 2000)

I havent used it either but, i heard from danish soldiers that got the c7 issued recently and they say the elcan sight, above lets say 150 meters, is king of the hill


----------



## GPMG (7 Dec 2000)

Just to clear it up, the Elcan sight is not electronic. It is just a 3.5x magnification optic.

If you check other parts of this website, you‘ll probably find a detailed discussion on the merits and faults of the Elcan sight. 

I think that the sight is excellent for shooting at the Range; however in poor weather conditions, it isn‘t very good. The sight‘s mounting wing nuts sometimes have a tendency to come lose, causing the sight to lose it‘s zero.

Another concern is that because it is an optical sight, troops can easily develope tunnel vision, and miss what‘s happening around them, therefore reacting slower to new threats.


----------



## Mud Crawler (7 Dec 2000)

ok we‘ve been tru this in the past but i chg my point :Iron sights replacable with a reflex site for cqb would be the best i think.


----------



## JRMACDONALD (10 Dec 2000)

I HAVE , REALLY, HEARD EOUGH OF THIS CRAP! READ THE POSTS OR SHUT UP!!!!!!! I DO NOT WISH TO SEE " URBAN MYTH"  OR SHEET LOAD OF TECHNICAL DATA.  THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE  BE A FORUM FOR DISSCUSION, NOT "THEY MIGHT HAVE THIS, WE DON‘T"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Shabadoo (10 Dec 2000)

heh, heh!


----------



## Travis Silcox (11 Dec 2000)

JR, I love that to-the-point honesty

but seriously man, you gotta relax eh, 

Travis Silcox


----------



## JRMACDONALD (12 Dec 2000)

Travis- if any one who knows  me, knew I "RELAXED" they would NOT respect me! Your statement is, obviously, that of someone who  knows not where he comes from, or where he is going!


----------



## JRMACDONALD (12 Dec 2000)

Travis- if any one who knows  me, knew I "RELAXED" they would NOT respect me! Your statement is, obviously, that of someone who  knows not where he comes from, or where he is going!


----------



## Master Blaster (13 Dec 2000)

Mr. MacDonald;

I believe that if you check back in your deep dark past you would have asked all these questions if you had the opportunity when you were just starting out.  These are absolute FNG‘s we‘re dealing with here...they will ask some of the most painfully obvious questions that you or I can think of and get disappointed when they don‘t get the answer they feel is their right to have.

I am about to ‘educate‘ about 150 to 250 of these young men and women in about 6 weeks and I can only hope that they are as keen and apparently eager as these two seem to be.

I know what you want to see on this forum and we have "ZERO" control over that.  We have the final say if we decide to respond to the folks, or not.

All the Best

Dileas Gu Brath


----------



## JRMACDONALD (13 Dec 2000)

Master Blaster- I stand corrected!


----------



## JRMACDONALD (13 Dec 2000)

Master Blaster- I stand corrected!


----------



## Mud Crawler (14 Dec 2000)

One thing i noticed today when i went to the recruiting center to do my medicals, military personel dont like being asked questions.When someone asked a question they felt attacked.Though it was funny when i saw them repeating 2 or 3 times when they said:"dont touch the question book before i say so"and people were actually looking at the book in that seamans faces haha.And i failed the vision test .So after the holidays im egtting a laser surgery hehe.They wont get ri of me that easily.I got more determination than then em.


----------



## bossi (14 Dec 2000)

I‘m not an expert, but I recall there used to be a one-year waiting period before enrolment after laser eye surgery - just thought I should warn you, in case they didn‘t.


----------



## Master Blaster (14 Dec 2000)

Mr. MacDonald;

You have true class!  It‘s not just anyone that can take criticism and be polite at the same time.  I commend you for your aplomb.

I have a feeling that we may have met at some time in the past.  If we have I hope that it was a pleasant meeting and that we parted with respect of each other.  If we haven‘t yet met, I can see from your posts that you are an old soldier that will never pass a fault and that you demonstrate leadership by example...1st class all the way.

All the Best

Dileas Gu Brath


----------



## Mud Crawler (14 Dec 2000)

if i need to ait i‘ll wait cause the army is what i wanna do, im not interested in a reorientation.


----------



## JRMACDONALD (15 Dec 2000)

Travis- watch that laser eye surgery crap. I t is good and effective( got several buddies who have done it.) However if I remember correctly there is a CFMO about saying it its an "unproven / ineffective procedure". I f you are Reg F  you CAN‘T get it with out CFMO permission. If you are joining  up , the "system " will not react well to it ! Just a warning!!!


----------



## JRMACDONALD (15 Dec 2000)

Master Blaster- thanks. we are , probably, in the same age/ experience/ time of service /group. I , usually, respond well to a slap in the head, from a peer!!!!


----------



## Mud Crawler (16 Dec 2000)

What do you mean by will not react well?


----------



## Doug VT (16 Dec 2000)

Any Reg can get laser eye surgery. You don‘t need permission at all, however, you must inform the MO and you will immediately go on category for six months. Category will be lifted if and when your vision meets the req. specs and you don‘t still have regular appointments with the specialists. You have to have this on your med docs because there are some trades which if you‘ve had this surgery, then you do not meet the req, such as any diving or to be a pilot. As far as I know that‘s all that the CF cares about! They will not pay or reimburse you anything at all for this surgery so don‘t even try;if it‘s not covered be health care, then it‘s not covered by the CF. 
Personally, I‘ve thought about it and thoroughly researched it and with my job I can‘t afford to lose any night vision.

Cheers


----------



## JRMACDONALD (16 Dec 2000)

MUD- see bossi post earlier. If you want a sex change , however,that is not a problem


----------



## JRMACDONALD (16 Dec 2000)

MUD- see bossi post earlier. If you want a sex change , however,that is not a problem


----------



## Doug VT (16 Dec 2000)

Actually, the CF doesn‘t cover sex changes anymore, now that health care doesn‘t cover it anymore either.


----------



## Mud Crawler (17 Dec 2000)

JR, I‘ll leave the sex change to you.I‘ll have my eyes burned and become an officer because that‘s what i always wanted to do as far as i can remember.Do you see a difference between officers who come out of officer school  and officers who get promotions and started as simple soldiers?Wich do you prefer and why and does this influence the way you see an officer?


----------



## bossi (18 Dec 2000)

(more on the laser eye surgery debate):

PUBLICATION  The Hamilton Spectator  
DATE  Monday December 18, 2000  
PAGE  A01  
BYLINE  Louise Elliott  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mounties warned against laser eye surgery 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The RCMP is advising its officers not to get laser eye surgery because several studies link the operation to reduced night vision. Meanwhile, the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) union has notified its members of a discount offer on the controversial procedure. 

The RCMP‘s occupational health division has instructed its medical offices to advise those considering the procedure not to get it, after a routine review of research data, said Dr. Jean-Pierre Legault, health service officer for Ontario and the former chief of occupational health. 

"We know there is a problem," said Legault, adding the force has yet to determine how severe that problem is. "Our recommendation right now is that our members not have (the surgery) unless absolutely required to do so." 

Currently, RCMP officers are not barred from getting the procedure, he said. 

But those considering the operation in order to maintain the vision standard required for front-line work will be warned of the possible complications after studies conducted in Canada, Britain and Germany found between 30 and 70 per cent of patients experienced a significant loss of night vision, Legault said. 

On Dec. 1, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration posted an Internet warning about the risks of the surgery, including permanent vision loss and reduced night vision. 

The industry has disputed the studies and maintains the procedure is safe, pointing to other research that has found the surgery has a high success rate. 

Despite the recent debate over the surgery‘s safety, the Ontario Provincial Police union this month distributed a discount offer on the procedure to its members, The Canadian Press has learned. 

In a move now under fire from consumer advocates and some members, the Ontario Provincial Police Association notified more than 5,000 Ontario officers and retirees about a deal on laser-eye surgery offered by TLC Laser Centres Inc. of Mississauga. 

The offer, which was disseminated via the police force‘s e-mail system, states that "for the month of January (TLC) is offering all police officers a discount of approximately 40 per cent off the cost of corrective laser eye surgery." 

Debbie McKenna, executive officer for the association, said the union is not advocating the surgery by publicizing TLC‘s offer, which extends to all police officers in Canada. 

"We are not endorsing it one way or another," she said. "It‘s a personal choice -- it‘s up to the individual as to whether or not they want to go ahead with it." 

But Wendy Armstrong, a public interest researcher who has studied laser eye surgery for 10 years, and former head of the Alberta Consumers Association, said that in forwarding the offer, the union may be putting police and public safety at risk. 

"They‘re making a leap of faith about the safety and value of this product," she said. "It‘s disconcerting to think this may have implications for public safety and the careers of certain individuals in the force." 

The decision to forward the offer may also make the association liable for bad surgical outcomes, and their effect on policing, she added. 

Armstrong also criticized TLC for issuing a time-pressured offer to police officers, saying the marketing tactic contradicts the recent industry acknowledgements that the safety of the surgery is dependent on the individual, and carries some risk. 

One retired member of the force who received the offer also said the union could be putting officers -- and the citizens they‘re policing -- at risk. 

"You‘ve got to be able to see, and they‘re putting that in jeopardy," said the former staff sergeant, who did not want his name used. "In high-speed driving, you are going to be chasing people, and some situations are life and death. If you don‘t have vision, you shouldn‘t be on the road." 

Superintendent Rick Kotwa of OPP corporate communications said he knew nothing about the union passing along the TLC offer, and said his office would look into it. 

Carroll Robinson, manager of the constable selection unit at Ontario‘s Ministry of the Solicitor-General, said provincial police are not forbidden from getting the operation, nor are they tested for night vision afterwards. 

But officers are asked to report any problems with glare, and are required to provide a letter from their doctor stating their vision has proved stable during two tests taken at different times of the day, he said. 

"We do not believe we are at risk," Robinson said, adding the current policy "is reasonably protecting us, even if night vision really is a problem." 

Forces in Britain are now advising officers against the procedure, said Valentine Murombe-Chivero of the Association of Chief Police Officers in London. 

"It is a problem," he said. "People are expected to see their senior officer and to make sure the surgery is absolutely necessary, and if it is, they would have to be examined (post-operatively)," he said, adding officers who have had the surgery are sometimes barred from high-speed chases.


----------



## Mud Crawler (18 Dec 2000)

I don‘t really have the choice. With my vision, presently, i can‘t be in teh armed forces. They require a vision that is above 3 on a 5 scale and I have 4. The thing is I didnt have my new prescription for my glasses when i did teh test.I had only one new glass on 2.So i feel that the tests are not good but they wont allow me to do another one.They said that if i had laser eye surgery, i‘d have to pass 2 tests from the doctor who operated me  and they should demonstrate that my viosion was ok.The article u showed me talks about not seing.The laser eye surgery could put my vision at 18 or 19/20.Can i do anything because i didnt have my prescription?


----------



## fusilier (23 Dec 2000)

mud crawler
are you currently in the infantry or just attempting to join?
From what I can tell you are not an infantry man and should
not talk about things you don‘t know anything about.  You can
read all the technical data you want, but if you have‘nt shot it,
you know nothing.  I have personally put thousands of rounds downrange using the C7 and find it to be a wonderful weapon.

GPMG
I had a C9 all summer, the sight broke so I took it off.  It would be better to have an iron sight, a scope on a fully automatic weapons is useless.

MASTER BLASTER and JRMACDONALD

You two seem to be some of the only guys around here who know what they‘re talking about.  I agree that there are too many FNGs around here who are nitpicking on the smallest details, sound like admin officers as opposed to infantry.


----------



## Mud Crawler (27 Dec 2000)

Fusilier.
I never pretended i knew anything and I believe I made it clear in many posts that I was attempting to join(ie talking about "when i went to the recruitment center today" or "Should I mention at my interviews...").On the other end, my friend, pretending to know everything is foolish. I never mentionned i shot the C7 nor did i mention i know how it handles.If you can‘t read, don‘t bother posting here and come blasting at me.Oh, and also, jusdging people by the the few lines they‘ve written is, pardonnez moi l‘expression, stupid.


----------



## Mud Crawler (27 Dec 2000)

P.S.:I came to this forum looking for info and advice, and I‘ve been fully sastified, not to be insulted by someone i don‘t know.So before saying I‘m prétentieux and that I don‘t know anything, try learning more about me and if you still think I‘m prétentieux, well dammit, there‘s nothing i can do about it and won‘t bother anymore.


----------

