# foreign weapons



## jerrythunder (26 Mar 2005)

hey i was just wondering if anyone wants to tell some storys or experiences with foreign weapons that they have had.


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## Infanteer (26 Mar 2005)

JerryThunder,

As a soldier being deployed you will most likely be trained on foreign weapons - you never know when you might have to use one, so we as professional soldiers are taught to do be able to handle them competently.

As an example, we dealt with foreign weapons frequently on quiet Peace-Support Operations - here is some junk we took off the locals overseas during Cordon and Search Operations and working with local police forces.


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## jerrythunder (26 Mar 2005)

i see allot of ak-47 type weapons. i know that they are very reliable in combat and can challenge the mighty m-16 ensemble but why do militants ever use some more graceful weapons like the G3A3 or the G36C or an AUG or even the FAMAS?


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## Duke (26 Mar 2005)

Do I need to get new glasses or is that a PPSh near the top? The first SMG below the pistols.

Duke


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## MJP (26 Mar 2005)

Because they aren't as availiable as the AK?  :


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## Infanteer (26 Mar 2005)

jerrythunder said:
			
		

> i see allot of ak-47 type weapons. i know that they are very reliable in combat and can challenge the mighty m-16 ensemble but why do militants ever use some more graceful weapons like the G3A3 or the G36C or an AUG or even the FAMAS?



Expensive.   They don't have defence contracts and deals with foreign corporations, so they don't have access to "graceful" weapons. 

Hard to maintain.   You can't give a complex Western assault rifle (like the C-7) to an untrained lout and expect it to hold up.   Old Soviet weapons are simple but don't give you the performance of a "graceful" weapon.   Consider it a trade-off.

Most of the weapons posted above were stuff people in the Army took home when the war in Yugo suddenly came to an end.   They didn't demobilize properly; people just kind of went back to their houses when NATO showed up.



			
				Duke said:
			
		

> Do I need to get new glasses or is that a PPSh near the top? The first SMG below the pistols.
> 
> Duke



No, you're right Duke - in the Balkans, guys were using anything they could get their mitts on.   There was a wrecked T-34 outside of one town and I remember seizing an old MP-40 with German markings on it.   One old fellow told me that he still had his rifle that he shot Germans with when he was a Partisan in the 1940's.


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## jerrythunder (26 Mar 2005)

yes yes i know that,

but you would think that SOMEONE would have one or two....


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## Duke (26 Mar 2005)

Way cool, Infanteer! Thanks!

Did any of the weapons end up in a museum or were they guests of honour at a bip?

Duke


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## Infanteer (26 Mar 2005)

jerrythunder said:
			
		

> yes yes i know that,
> 
> but you would think that SOMEONE would have one or two....



They do - we also found a G3 in very good condition; we all grimaced when we sent that perfectly good rifle to be destroyed.... :'(


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## 1feral1 (26 Mar 2005)

jerrythunder said:
			
		

> i see allot of ak-47 type weapons. i know that they are very reliable in combat and can challenge the mighty m-16 ensemble but why do militants ever use some more graceful weapons like the G3A3 or the G36C or an AUG or even the FAMAS?



The former USSR used to hand out their wpns like speeding tickets on the Kingsway to any cause where there was a fledgling chance for communism to develop. There has been a variety of wpns from the FRY, you name it, and they'll have had it. Many sympathisers throughout the world, and weapons from everywhere turning   up, old and new, and in all calibres.

In the pics above there seems to be an abundant qty of SARAC 53's (Yugo copy of a MG42) or maybe even original fair dinkum German MG42's.

RPD's in 7.62 X 39mm too.

The AKs are a variery of Russian, Chi-Com, Yugo, Hungarian (there is an AMD 65 in that pile), and who knows what else. Some SKS's both of Yugo and other Com Bloc origin, plus the PPSHs, etc. Interesting pics.

The Mauser rifles are most likely Yugo made, but I am sure there is alot of German Kar98ks still floating about, even now.

In various parts of the world there is heaps of com-bloc wpns, also heaps of US wpns, and UK wpns,  etc. If there was a colonial presence in a certain country, say pre 1945, and many places post 1945, odds are you'll find their presence still within the borders of that country, especially in wpns, vehicles, language, building design, electricity voltage (110/240V etc) and even culturally in some ways. Examples, French weapons in Viet Nam, still. Japanese wpns, in PNG, and in Indonesia, still. UK weapons in the ME, India, and Africa, and Belguim made weapons in the Congo. US weapons throughout the Pacific and South America.

Small arms, drill, uniforms, and tactics (however outdated) will be found throughout the 3rd world, and their former colonial leaders and or sponsers.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Da_man (26 Mar 2005)

Wow MG42s... best machine gun ever.   What do you do with them?  Any ways to get them deactivated and shipped to canada?


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## 1feral1 (26 Mar 2005)

Da_man said:
			
		

> Wow MG42s... best machine gun ever.     What do you do with them?   Any ways to get them deactivated and shipped to canada?



One should be able to obtain an original German MG42 (or MG34 or MP40 etc) from many reputable places in Canada, nicely deactivated cosmetically, with some moving parts, etc. As long as its a permanant conversion, one does not even need a FAC or licence to obtain (depending on where you live, but out in Sask/Man/Alta, no problems in owning a de-activated MG).

Cheers,

Wes 

PS - Expect to pay from $600-$1200 or more for one though.


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## Britney Spears (26 Mar 2005)

The details are a little hazy, but it is possible to have the weapons shipped back to Canada deactivated, as long as it is to a museum,  most likely you would have to get in contact with the curator of the museum, who would pay for the proceedure. Has to be a real museum too, your JR's mess is not a real museum. I've seen it done, with the full endorsement of the chain of command.

Of course, with amatures like Infanteer running the show, all the weapons probably ended up in the furnace  .


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## 1feral1 (26 Mar 2005)

I don't think one would have a snowballs chance in hell even getting a bayonet home in this over PC world we live in.

Any smuggling of even a de-activaed wpn will land you into a dirty great big giant pot of boiling oil. I'd stay clear of anything contraband, as much as I'd like a token of an O/S tour.

Stay clean, and learn from the mistakes of others who got caught.


Cheers,

Wes


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## Britney Spears (27 Mar 2005)

Sorry Wes, I think you misunderstood me. None of the stuff I mentioned is illegal as far as I know, and this was all done in the open, with the proper paperwork and all. The weapons, once deactivated, do serve a legitimate purpose, and as I mentioned our chain of command was quite partial to the idea. In fact our OC had used his authority to greatly expedite the proccess. The Kalashnikov in question, one of many, now reside in a muesem above a plaque crediting our platoon with its capture and subsequent donation. I was just mentioning that Infanteer may or may not have been aware of the opportunity, because it does exist.


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## Canadian Sig (27 Mar 2005)

one of our officers in Kabul bought some weapons on Chicken St. and had the paper work ect done to ship them over to Canada to be deactivated and put in the base museum.


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## 1feral1 (27 Mar 2005)

The Saskatchewan Military Museum in Regina has many 'live firers' including some AKs from the FRY, so there must be some type of legislation which has allowed for this.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Britney Spears (27 Mar 2005)

Sadly, as I was not directly involved in the process, I can provide no more useful advice other than that its possible, and that it must go to a goverment endorsed/accredited muesem (we had high hopes of dividing up the haul amongst us and allotting a few weapons for each mess, but it was not to be).  You will have to ask your CoC and hope that they like the idea and are willing to back you in the endeavour. 

Maybe one of the old-timers here can shed more light on the issue?


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## AmmoTech90 (27 Mar 2005)

DCDS Directive on Deployed Ops provides direction on the return of foreign weapons and ammo from operations.  If you ever have to worry about it, go look there.  Most museums that have firearm displays are licenced to hold the weapons in a non-deactivated state.  The returned weapons may also go into CF stores to help with the training Infanteer mentioned in his first post.


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## jerrythunder (27 Mar 2005)

could anyone out there tell me how the G36C  handles please?


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## civvy3840 (27 Mar 2005)

could you not just take a pistol or something put it in your rucksack and bring it home as a souvenir? I know the people in the Falklands did.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Mar 2005)

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> could you not just take a pistol or something put it in your rucksack and bring it home as a souvenir? I know the people in the Falklands did.



Not to mention thats illegal...you do know that militry members go through civillian air ports and explaining weapons that may not be accounted for on the flight mainfest is just plain stupid don't you think?


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## civvy3840 (27 Mar 2005)

Good point I was just wondering because my dad told me that once when he was on tour somewhere (can't remember where) a guy from the French foreign legion gave him a couple pistols when they where leaving. My dad just through them in the garbage and I always wondered why.


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## Da_man (27 Mar 2005)

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> Good point I was just wondering because my dad told me that once when he was on tour somewhere (can't remember where) a guy from the French foreign legion gave him a couple pistols when they where leaving. My dad just through them in the garbage and I always wondered why.




Your dad put a pistol in the garbage?  Thats even worst than keeping it.


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## civvy3840 (27 Mar 2005)

Da_man said:
			
		

> Your dad put a pistol in the garbage?   Thats even worst than keeping it.



Well maybe not the garbage he just said " I disposed of it." which could me garbage.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Mar 2005)

Hmmmm.....the story gets more and more interesting.


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