# Which Cap Badge to wear?



## cda84 (10 Mar 2007)

Afternoon all,

I have a quick question, I am finishing my ROTP program this semester, and am being posted on OJT after that. My posting message stated 2Lt, me. (currently I am still an OCdt until I graduate obviously). I have been given a BOTC bypass due to previous Reserve service. So I have not completed the whole, 'BOTP grad parade', and never will. I have seen other OCdts (Pilots, like me) with the Air Force cap badge having completed their BOTP.

Since I have completed the BOTC level, am I entitled to get rid of the cornflake?

Cheers

Chris


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## George Wallace (10 Mar 2007)

One usually doesn't take it upon themself to change their hatbadge/award themself a hatbadge, without some serious repercussions.  As you are in the ROTP program, it would be best to check with your Advising Officer and do as they instruct you to do.  To take any advice from us would only get you into someone's bad books.


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## cda84 (10 Mar 2007)

Good point. Perhaps I should rephrase the question then.

Am I likely entitled to one if I go ask? (Which, I will!) I am basically curious when everybody else who has gone AF ROTP has gotten theirs?

Cheers


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## geo (10 Mar 2007)

once you are qualified beyond 0, you might very well be.

For the Infantry recruits, they wear the "corn flake" tri service badge thru their BQ & SQ, they wear the Infantry corp badge thru their trade course & are awarded their Regimental cap badge upon completion of battle school..........


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## Zoomie (10 Mar 2007)

cda84 - you won't likely be given any direction about when to put up your cloth capbadge.  

Here's what I want you to do:

Next time you are in clothing stores, ask for x2 Air Force cloth capbadge (Vern can provide the NSN).  

Next, go to your local base tailor and get him/her to affix said capbadges to your beret and wedge. Ta-da, you are done.  Do not show up anywhere wearing the Cornflake.  With your prior service and your BOTC bypass you should never have even worn the cornflake.


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## hollywood13 (12 Mar 2007)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> cda84 - you won't likely be given any direction about when to put up your cloth capbadge.
> 
> Here's what I want you to do:
> 
> ...



For my two cents.... when I was on IAP and BOTC, members with previous military service wore the cap badges they earned. For myself I was Arty, going to Air Force, so I could not wear my army cap badge with the blue beret. A few former Air Force NCM members had the NCM air force badge on from day one to grad parade, as well as one MP, and an infantry NCO. Our staff did not care, and nobody got jacked up for having them on. For myself, and everyone else that did BOTC in the Air Force, we all wore our Officer Cap badges on our berets and wedges for second lang. training that commenced 4 days after BOTC, with no issues.

hope this help


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## I_am_John_Galt (12 Mar 2007)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Next time you are in clothing stores, ask for x2 Air Force cloth capbadge (Vern can provide the NSN).



Or even better yet, go to Canex and get the gold-threaded one: they look about a million times better ...


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## Disenchantedsailor (12 Mar 2007)

9. Personnel commissioned from the ranks to a
different CF element and issued the uniform of the
new element, are entitled to wear the branch insignia
of that element.

10. Officer cadets of the Royal Military College
(RMC), other than UTPM cadets, shall wear RMC
badges during the academic year until they are
commissioned. They shall be issued branch badges
as appropriate on commencement of military
occupation training, for wear only during the period of
this training. Upon commissioning, they shall wear
the insignia of the branch or regiment to which they
are assigned.

12. UTPM cadets shall continue to wear their
environmental uniforms, branch or regimental
insignia until re-assigned.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but this is all directly out of the Dress instructions cheers


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## cda84 (12 Mar 2007)

Thank you all for the responses.

The RMC rules do not apply to me no, I have been Civy U. I do know all the other pilots I know post BOTC have the Air Cap Badge.

Therefore, as Zoomie (thank you for the reassurance), stated, I will make the trip down to the ASU to pick some up.

Cheers all


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## md2b (21 Apr 2011)

I've got a question for those more experienced than I...

I was a reservist med tech; and was thus issued an NCM med tech cap badge for my beret.
Then I commissioned through MOTP and I'm a 2Lt and my SEM instructions say "MOTP students will be issued the distinct cap badge upon enrollment". I have this too. 

BUT I am going on Phase II of BMOQ in June and I have no idea whether I should wear a cornflake (I have this leftover from being a med tech); my old med tech cap badge (since that's my level of military training) or the medical officer one (since I've been issued that too).

Or should I just order 2 more berets from logistik unicorps and take 3 with me and wear whatever I'm told to? 

thanks!


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## PuckChaser (21 Apr 2011)

You were issued Med officer capbadge. Reading between the lines that means throw it on your beret. The CF wouldn't issue you something you're not supposed to wear yet (normally).


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## MedCorps (21 Apr 2011)

MB2B

Officers in the Canadian Forces Medical Service (CFMS) are "taken on strength" with the CFMS when they commission.  As such you are entitled to wear, and should wear proudly, the Medical Branch, Officer (silver snake) cap badge. When you get to the Training Centre in Borden buy a few of the nice ones from the kit shop, but in the mean time the issue one will do. 

The only time you will see an officer wear a NCM CFMS capbadge (gold snake) is if they were a CFMS NCM and now are an Officer Cadet.  

If you did not have previous service and were not commissioned yet (still an Officer Cadet) then you would wear the good old tri-service capbadge. 

I hope that helps.  Good luck at BMOQ. 

MC


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## md2b (22 Apr 2011)

Thank you Puckchaser and MedCorps for the clarification! I appreciate it!


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## Chang (4 Mar 2012)

Hi all,

I am an army reservist and recently signed my acceptacnce offer for EME officer through the SCP and accepted a position as 2LT-2. Currently I am authorized to wear the logistics cap badge. Do I continue to wear my log NCM badge or change to cornflake/EME? My next career course is CAP from what I was told. I tried reading through the CF dress instructions and searched the forums but couldn't find anything relevant. Does anyone have access to the EME standing orders as there might  be something in there?

Thanks!


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## ModlrMike (5 Mar 2012)

If you were a straight remuster then the answer would be much easier. Tradition suggests that you would continue to wear the Log cap badge until you're qualified in the new MOC. Seeing as this is a remuster combined with a SCP, then I would suggest that you wear the Log badge until you put your bars on, then switch over to EME. The branch adviser for EME might be able to shed better light on the subject.


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## blackberet17 (5 Mar 2012)

Plus, you may wish to hold off on switching until you receive your EME badge from your new CO.

Have fun on CAP. Baby Cap or Gagetown?


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## Wookilar (5 Mar 2012)

I went the other way, from EME to Log when I commissioned. I was told to switch my capbadge when my rank was changed (as were all the other UT's that I went through the next 3 years of courses with until I was trades qualified).

Wook


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## Chang (5 Mar 2012)

Thanks for the replies!

@blackberet: not course loaded yet, but I've heard nice things about aldershot.

@wook: are you referring to the trade cap badge or the cornflake?


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## cupper (5 Mar 2012)

Globemaster said:
			
		

> but I've heard *nice things* about *aldershot*.



That must be the first time in history that those words have been uttered in the same sentence. ;D


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## Wookilar (6 Mar 2012)

When my then CO and RSM "promoted" me to OCdt, I was also handed a brand new Log cap badge and sent directly to the tailor shop to get it put on.

Wook


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## Chang (9 Mar 2012)

Ended up being the same case as wook. Presented with EME cap badge and instructed to sort it out


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## blackberet17 (15 May 2012)

Globemaster said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> @blackberet: not course loaded yet, but I've heard nice things about aldershot.



It's called Alderschwitz for a reason... hint: the ants are everywhere. Suggest you adopt them as a section mascot IOT pass inspection.


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## NSDreamer (16 May 2012)

Globemaster said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> @blackberet: not course loaded yet, but I've heard nice things about aldershot.
> 
> @wook: are you referring to the trade cap badge or the cornflake?



Be careful about that, Aldershot is a crap shoot when it comes to CAP/What is now BMOQ-L

 For instance my course had a pretty jammy go, we only lost about 4 people to quitting/failing etc...

 However our sister platoon in the barracks next to us got the SH** beat out of them and went from 30 pers, to 21 before their their 8th week. Almost 30% wash out rate. Most of which were due to injury from people who thought they had a jammy go coming to them.

  Apparently there are some Crse O's who think that because you are in Aldershot and it has a rep for easy BMOQ-L/CAP courses, they need to put the boots to you harder.

 my 2cents.

    -NS


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## Danjanou (16 May 2012)

cupper said:
			
		

> That must be the first time in history that those words have been uttered in the same sentence. ;D






			
				NSDreamer said:
			
		

> Be careful about that, Aldershot is a crap shoot



The second quote sounds more like the rat hole I was exiled to for most of the 1980's  8)


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## JRBond (18 Jun 2012)

Does anyone have a reference for OCdts with former service wearing anything besides the cornflake?


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## Ostrozac (19 Jun 2012)

JRBond said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a reference for OCdts with former service wearing anything besides the cornflake?



CFP 265, Chapter 3, Section 4.

To summarize, it is complicated and depends largely on your commissioning plan. ROTP and UTPNCM are different. Although the dress pam uses the older term UTPM.


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## SemperGumbee (3 May 2018)

Greetings,

long time lurker, first time poster here. I've looked plenty for a situation similar to mine through these forums, but haven't found any solid info so I'm hoping someone can give an answer to my particular situation.

I was previously a 3s qualified medic in the Army Reserves before switching over to be a Reg Force CELE (Air) Officer through ROTP. I am still an officer cadet, but have completed my BMOQ training. In the last year i have been told to wear and then switch 4 different cap badges, from medical, to NCM RCAF, to tri force, and finally the officer RCAF. Recently I have been told the one I am wearing is wrong again. The explanation I was given on why I SHOULD be wearing officer cap badge is that I am 
1) Air Force element 
2) in the Officer career progression (however not commissioned yet) and
3) qualified in a trade. 

As I understand this will just be worn until i get the Jimmy after completing the CELE course. If anyone could give some insight on this matter it would be most appreciated.


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## CanadianGeoguy (3 May 2018)

I just got picked up for CELE myself and will be starting my studies, so take this with a grain of salt (18 years Army NCO). From what I've been told, once you belong to the occupation you can put the Jimmy up on your headdress. You will get your occupation badge once you take your CELE course and that only goes up at that point.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## dimsum (4 May 2018)

I didn't think there was a requirement to change badges from the NCM (cloth, presumably) and Officer (embroidered) cap badges when one was commissioned, aside from whether you wanted to pay for said badge.  

Most officers do, but I've never seen something requiring someone to buy the RCAF embroidered badge.


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## Blackadder1916 (4 May 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I didn't think there was a requirement to change badges from the NCM (cloth, presumably) and Officer (embroidered) cap badges when one was commissioned, aside from whether you wanted to pay for said badge.
> 
> Most officers do, but I've never seen something requiring someone to buy the RCAF embroidered badge.



While it doesn't apply to the OP's situation since he hasn't remained in the same branch (medical) that he was in as an NCM, there are some branches/regiments that have different cap badges for officers vice NCMs (medical being one, the snake on an officer's/CWO's badge is silver, for the rest of NCMs it is gold).

However, what does the book say?
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/pub/ins-265/index-eng.asp


> ISSUE POLICY FOR BRANCH/CORPS INSIGNIA
> 
> 3.  Except as noted below, all personnel shall be issued the following badges on initial enrolment:
> a.  the CAF universal-pattern cap badge; and
> ...



The conflicting directions that the OP has received is likely due to confusion in interpreting the highlighted paras above, as well as some downright stupidity on the part of someone who thinks that because someone is wearing an air force blue uniform they should be wearing the Air Ops branch badge.  Unless something has changed the CELE occupation still falls within the C&E branch.

And of course, you are correct that no one is obliged to purchase a fancier version of the issued badge.  Not obliged, just hounded suggested until you do.


> 16.Senior Officers, Junior Officers, and Non-Commissioned Members
> a.  A metal or embroidered branch/corps cap badge and, where appropriate, metal collar badges shall be worn, except as specified in sub-paragraph b.
> b.  All senior and junior officers, and all CWOs or equivalent may wear optional wire embroidered versions of their authorized cap badge provided that the badge is identical in both dimension and design and conforms to the approved pattern held by NDHQ/DHH.  Regimental officers and Chief Warrant Officers shall conform to regimental direction.


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## danteh (29 Jun 2018)

I recently accepted an offer to VOT to MP from Firefighter and I got loaded on a BMQ-L course before my MP QL3s. The joining instructions for the QL3s say I can have the MP cap badge on. My question is because my BMQ-L is first (and 5 months before my QL3s) which cap badge would I wear? The engineer (firefighter) one because i'm trades qualified even tho I am technically not apart of the trade anymore? Or the MP one even tho I havn't done my QL3s yet?

I have asked my supervisors and my clerks and neither had the answer, just alot of "I think"s and I don't know if there is an official document with this answer on it so I'm asking here.

Thanks in advance.


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## garb811 (29 Jun 2018)

The date your OT takes effect the Thunderbird goes up.

The ref is in the thread I just merged your question with.


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## danteh (29 Jun 2018)

garb811 said:
			
		

> The date your OT takes effect the Thunderbird goes up.
> 
> The ref is in the thread I just merged your question with.



Thanks alot. Exactly what I was looking for.

Cheers.


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