# What are the differences between BMQ and BOTC?



## Catherine (23 Jul 2007)

hi all,
Planning to join the full time military and wondering what are the difference between BMQ and BOTC? I know one is for NCM and the other is for Officer, but both are running the same 12 weeks. 
Can anyone provide details for both courses? Is BMQ easier?

cat


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## mudrecceman (23 Jul 2007)

Here's a start.

BMQ

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/site/soyez_prets/qmb_e.asp

BOTC is actually IAP followed by BOTP

IAP

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/site/soyez_prets/pei_e.asp

BOTP

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/site/soyez_prets/peeo_e.asp

My one sentence answer?  There is no official leadership development on BMQ.  On BOTC, it is a requirement and you are assessed on it.

Now my question...why the question?  Are you trying to decide between NCM or Officer?

 ;D


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## Catherine (23 Jul 2007)

I think i am going to be an officer.


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## Shamrock (23 Jul 2007)

I hear that's treatable now.


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## medaid (23 Jul 2007)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> I hear that's treatable now.




 :rofl:



okay, but Shamrock... I'm not that bad


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## mudrecceman (23 Jul 2007)

Catherine said:
			
		

> I think i am going to be an officer.



ohhhhhhhhhhhh there is just too much that could be said to this one...a "door wide open" as it were...

 :-X


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## ejames (25 Jul 2007)

I just finished IAP/BOTP under the new program from CFLRS so if you have any questions regarding it please feel free to PM me.

I am also looking for a thread to vent about the new IAP/BOTP program...anyone know of any such thread on these boards?


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## Meridian (25 Jul 2007)

Im pretty sure I thought I saw one back around this time last year when it was starting...  maybe not... I have a friend who was on the guinea pig course so I heard a lot about it).

I suppose you could always start your own.. there is generally less info on here about Officer life, which makes sense, since officers are proportionally less in the CF.


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## tibor23 (25 Jul 2007)

Seems to be lots of grumbling about the new IAP/BOTP.  I'm on the August 27th course and would be nice to know what's making people unhappy.

EDITED for grammar.


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## mudrecceman (26 Jul 2007)

...as there was last year as well...

...and the year before that probably...

...and the year before that...

 ;D

Just be careful what you pay heed to...PM me if you don't have a clue what I mean.   8)


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## ejames (26 Jul 2007)

tibor23 said:
			
		

> Seems to be lots of grumbling about the new IAP/BOTP.  I'm on the August 27th course and would be nice to know what's making people unhappy.
> 
> EDITED for grammar.



- 5am wakey wakey and PT
- PT
- 45 minutes to shower, change, eat and get ready for inspection
- 14k ruck march
- blisters, shin splints, sun burns (esp. baret burns)
- olive drab (if you are at Venture)
- other candidates (keep those to yourself)
- military tests (believe it or not some people complained about these)
- memos!
- team builders

Its all the usual stuff.


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## Meridian (26 Jul 2007)

Yep.... nothing "new" in there...


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## mudrecceman (26 Jul 2007)

ejames said:
			
		

> - 5am wakey wakey and PT
> - PT
> - 45 minutes to shower, change, eat and get ready for inspection
> - 14k ruck march
> ...



So they are unhappy with...being in the military??

Good career choice then.   ;D


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## Disenchantedsailor (27 Jul 2007)

ejames said:
			
		

> - 5am wakey wakey and PT
> - PT
> - 45 minutes to shower, change, eat and get ready for inspection
> - 14k ruck march
> ...



I'm going to assume if you did the crse at Venture you are indeed a reservist and weren't subjected to the full 16 Week crse ie IAP is 6 weeks vice 9 and botc is 4 weeks vice 6 (yes I happen to know a thing or two about venture spent my last 7 years in Esq)


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## mudrecceman (27 Jul 2007)

"subjected"??



"are indeed a reservist"

so??


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## Disenchantedsailor (27 Jul 2007)

no ofence meant, I was a reservist for a time myself, I was merely trying to figure out how someone who took a shortened version of the course offered 3000 KM from the place the rest of us are going can comment on the course content in St Jean with any accuracy.


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## mudrecceman (27 Jul 2007)

seen!


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## CdnArtyWife (27 Jul 2007)

Ironically it seems as though every year there is a "new version" of IAP/BOTP. I recall when hubby was going through six years ago, he was on a guinea pig course as well, and subsequently all of his phase training was guinea pig as well.  :

Cheers,

CAW


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## ejames (27 Jul 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> no ofence meant, I was a reservist for a time myself, I was merely trying to figure out how someone who took a shortened version of the course offered 3000 KM from the place the rest of us are going can comment on the course content in St Jean with any accuracy.



Because everything comes from CFLRS which is in St Jean. Our instructors have to train in St Jean before coming out to Esq. to run the reservist course and all of the wonderful power point slides (with wonderful English translation) are from St Jean. It was all any of the instructors talked about "..in St Jean they do it like this..."

Not to mention the fact that there were a few people on the course who did go for their training in St Jean and for various reasons completed it here at Venture.


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## Disenchantedsailor (27 Jul 2007)

I just completed a stint as enemy force for the courses here in Esq and witnessed the small party taskings, the printing the scenarios of the din minutes before delivering them to the candidates. Making MSE Requests at 1500 on Friday for 0800 Monday. The final parade and standard of drill. I have a friend who is an instructor there (name withheld for obvious reasons) a guy I've played darts with for years who said that when Venture standars disagreed with a MLP or Assesment form they simply changed it to make it work to thier standard. CFLRS Trained does not mean CFLRS Delivered. And as for the "they do it in St Jean" is simply a poor excuse for "I Don't understand the material but can read from a powerpoint slide" or along with "when I was a cadet" or "when I was in the reserves" or "back the first time I was in" A crse developed in one location will not neccessarily be run in the same manner, following the same schedules and timelines. This is true not only of BOTC, but other nationaly mandated, locally delivered crses. yes the daily routine is especially long, it has to be when you cram 16 weeks of trg into 9 or 10, and when you do compress an intensive crse like this something will get dropped.


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## Shamrock (27 Jul 2007)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> seen!



Thank God he sorted you out.  I was wondering how we'd put the pin back into that grenade after the spoon had jumped out.


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## mudrecceman (29 Jul 2007)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Thank God he sorted you out.  I was wondering how we'd put the pin back into that grenade after the spoon had jumped out.



Well you have to give someone a chance to clarify before you call "rounds on, fire for effect".

 ;D


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## Disenchantedsailor (30 Jul 2007)

and thanks for that MRM, sometimes the foot tends to jump into the mouth a little quick.


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## mudrecceman (30 Jul 2007)

been guilty of that on more occassions on here than I can think of!


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## Catherine (15 Aug 2007)

Is public speaking are part of officier basic training? what kind of topic will be chosen for the candidate usually?


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## Disenchantedsailor (15 Aug 2007)

I'm not sure if there is a public speaking component per se, perhaps theres and instructor around here someplace that can correct me. But there are a few times where you will be required to speak somewhat publicly. You (We) will have to deliver 2 lesson plans, one skill, one knowledge, as well there is a small party tasking in the field designed to assess leadership and teamwork abilities as well as a tour as either Candidate Platoon Commander or section senior, which also assesses leadership ability. I'll check at work tommorrow and see what else is on the sylabus for public speaking.


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## Shamrock (15 Aug 2007)

Catherine said:
			
		

> Is public speaking are part of officier basic training? what kind of topic will be chosen for the candidate usually?



Yes.  It's an enormous portion.

A candidate's first exposure will be delivering about a formal, five minute presentation on him/herself; these are usually done before the entire course (which can be up to 60 candidates + staff) and are a soft assess.  Candidates will also be required to give plenty of O Gps; these are done at section level and are a hard assess as well as CPC O Gp which is not assessed (however, CPC is an assessed duty).  As CPC, candidates may be required to march the course to and from some locations and issue some drill.  Classes will be given on public speaking and speech giving.

During BOTP, candidates are required to deliver a speech to the course and staff, the topic can either be of individual choosing but military related or staff assigned.

Small party taskings are gone.  Candidates will be required to conduct something similar to them during LPAC (Leadership Potential Assessment Centre); however, the new syllabus has candidates conducting actual missions, such as VCP's, SAR, recce screens, etc during the final confirmation ex.


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## Catherine (15 Aug 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if there is a public speaking component per se, perhaps theres and instructor around here someplace that can correct me. But there are a few times where you will be required to speak somewhat publicly. You (We) will have to deliver 2 lesson plans, one skill, one knowledge, as well there is a small party tasking in the field designed to assess leadership and teamwork abilities as well as a tour as either Candidate Platoon Commander or section senior, which also assesses leadership ability. I'll check at work tommorrow and see what else is on the sylabus for public speaking.



thanks for the detail and hearing from you again tomorrow.


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## Catherine (15 Aug 2007)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Yes.  It's an enormous portion.
> 
> A candidate's first exposure will be delivering about a formal, five minute presentation on him/herself; these are usually done before the entire course (which can be up to 60 candidates + staff) and are a soft assess.  Candidates will also be required to give plenty of O Gps; these are done at section level and are a hard assess as well as CPC O Gp which is not assessed (however, CPC is an assessed duty).  As CPC, candidates may be required to march the course to and from some locations and issue some drill.  Classes will be given on public speaking and speech giving.
> 
> ...



Sound interesting, but 5min presentation is too long. I don't have much to say. Are there anymore details? what are VCP's, SAR, recce screen?
thanks


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## Disenchantedsailor (15 Aug 2007)

Shamrock, thanks for that, I was still under the impression small party crap was in, thank lord its not. but you're right I missed the O Groups and what not. They really have candidates doing recce screens, how forward thinking of them. again thanks for the info.


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## medaid (15 Aug 2007)

You're going to have to think of something Catherine. Some of these exercises like the presentation, is used to gauge YOU as a candidate. Honestly, if you're shy and timid, you may have to work on it a little bit. Keeping in mind the occupation route which you have chosen, you have to assertive and loud at times too. Not saying there is anything wrong with being quiet or timid. 

It also goes towards confidence. The more confident ( not arrogant ) some one is, especially a leader, it may inspire confidence in their followers or peers. I wish you luck!


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## mudrecceman (18 Aug 2007)

Catherine said:
			
		

> Sound interesting, but 5min presentation is too long. I don't have much to say. Are there anymore details? what are VCP's, SAR, recce screen?
> thanks



military slang is one thing you will learn very quickly.

VCP=vehicle check point

SAR= Search and Rescue

Recce Screen=you occupy OPs (observtion posts) and watch a target or a target area for activity.  Main objective is to "see without being seen" while gathering the information you are after.

You will learn a whole new language and in a few short weeks you will be able to speak in abbreviations and acronyms in a way that your civie friends would have NO idea what you just said.   ;D

"I went down to get the IMPs and NVGs from the SQ, but he was gone with the SSM to do that DP.  We are going to need them for the OPs, and the LARs too.  I want you to make sure the troops know the MBTs, MICVs, AIFVs, SPGs and A/Cs we are expecting."

Thats all gobbly-gook now but...you'll soon be able to talk in confusing sentences to your civie friends!


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## aesop081 (18 Aug 2007)

Catherine said:
			
		

> Sound interesting, but 5min presentation is too long.



Its not like they give you a choice.

If you think 5 minutes is too long, how will you handle your duties as an offficer in the future ? How will you handle instructing ? How will you handle breifing senior officers on various projects ? How will you deal with the media ?


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## AverageJoe (18 Aug 2007)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> military slang is one thing you will learn very quickly.
> 
> VCP=vehicle check point
> 
> ...



Speaking of acronyms and abbreviations is there a list somewhere around in the forum? Some times I have no idea what people are talking about.


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## mudrecceman (18 Aug 2007)

How about here...

http://army.ca/words/?function=showall


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## George Wallace (18 Aug 2007)

AverageJoe said:
			
		

> Speaking of acronyms and abbreviations is there a list somewhere around in the forum? Some times I have no idea what people are talking about.



"Search".  What a marvelous function that Mike Bobbitt incorporated into his wonderful sites.  A simple "Search" found Acronyms & Abbreviations of The CF which was followed by  Common acronyms & phrases used on Army.ca for newbies, and Terms and acronyms, and Flight Acronyms, as well as several other topics that included information such as Curious Acronyms.  Try it some day.  You may find things much easier.   

Now I can get back to surfing the site for my own reasons.   ;D


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## Catherine (19 Aug 2007)

is the first 2 months going to be IAP and the 3rd month til the end of the course is BOTC? What happen if I pass the first part and fail the second?

cat


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## Quag (19 Aug 2007)

You will either be recoursed or released, depending on your situation.  But search!


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## mudrecceman (19 Aug 2007)

From my first reply...

IAP

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/site/soyez_prets/pei_e.asp

BOTP

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/site/soyez_prets/peeo_e.asp

Check out the "Weekly Schedule" (for both courses).   ;D


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