# 1980s combat uniform pockets / Mess Kit accuracy



## lisa_barbi (22 Dec 2010)

Looking for any assistance to what was carried in the pockets of the old combat uniform pockets. Yes I can guess what was placed in the pockets, but not sure if I am correct and not sure what went into what pocket, for an average person. I am sure some things that was carried was the wallet, keys, smokes, lighter, handkerchief (for some people), note pad, map, field cap/beret, gum (or what ever) and so on. I could put things into what ever pocket I feel like putting it into, but if someone who served back than could tell me what they had in their pockets and what pocket it went into, it would make my collection more historically correct. Can anyone assist? Thank you and sorry to bother you all on such a stupid matter.


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## TCBF (22 Dec 2010)

- The two chest pockets each fit a twenty round magazine for the FN C1 rifle.  The shirt's two hip pokets had nylon partitions that would each hold two more magazines.  So, in theory, you could carry six FN magazines, but were only issued four.  If you carried an FN C2, none of your six thirty round mags would fit in the shirt pocket loops. Instead, you used the 1951 pattern basic ("Bren Gun") webbing pouches to hold the C2 mags, or if issued 64 pattern webbing, you carried four mags in the "Case, Ammunition, Magazine, 1964". A.K.A.: "The C2 Bra."
Your fifth mag went on the C2, and the sixth in one of your trousers thigh pockets.  If it was a full mag and you were running a lot, it would beat the piss out of your leg.

- But 99% of the time, the old 1964 OG-107 Combats held other stuff, depending on what you were doing.

- If you lived in Bldg F16 in Petawawa about 1977, you could fit six bottles (the old stubbies) of beer in the shirt hip pockets - three each side.   Walk across the Hussar parade square to the old stables which was the base theatre, pay 75 cents for a movie ticket and buy a large pop. You sat down, the movie started, the lights went out and you poured the pop on the floor. You opened your first beer, and poured it in the empty pop cup. That way, even if it was a bad movie it was a good movie. Afterwards, refreshments in the Coriano Club to discus the artistic merits of the film.


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## lisa_barbi (22 Dec 2010)

I read some place that the 2 chest pockets and the shirt cargo pockets held rifle magazines, but if the magazines where fully loaded, would it not rip the shirt? How comfertable would it have been? Could you use them to hold magazines while wearing the p82 web gear?

I was more thinking about what you would stick in the pockets as if you where either on a hike or just working around the base.

75 Cents for a movie? WOW! wish I was around back than. Would not mind seeing some photos from the bases back in the 1960s to the 1980s. It seems that the only pics you can find that shows life on the bases are no older than about 2000, and anything older just gets dumped. There dose not seem to be much around from the cold war, witch is probably why I am collecting the old combat uniform.


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## TCBF (22 Dec 2010)

- The mags would not rip the shirt. 

- Don't forget to collect the crewsuit as well. Then, of course, you need all of the slip-ons, rank and cbt hat badges.


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## 57Chevy (22 Dec 2010)

TCBF said:
			
		

> If you carried an FN C2, you carried four mags in the "Case, Ammunition, Magazine, 1964". A.K.A.: "The C2 Bra."



Better known as "The Chest Pack"
You could carry at least 20rds of clipped ammo in each shirt hip pocket which fit nicely into those pocket loops
Also the mag charger. (a dandy little piece of kit)

I usually carried sunflower seeds and beef jerky in those pockets along with a field message book or note pad.
The C5 knife could also have been found in one of those pockets along with the bic lighter or zippo.

The chest pocket was just about the worse place to carry a 20rd magazine.
Those pockets were set aside for the wallet and the pack of smokes......sometimes just the smokes.
Usually the wallet stayed at home except for the ID card which would be found in the inner shirt pocket.


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## lisa_barbi (22 Dec 2010)

First of all, thanks; Second z couple of questions, what went in the back pants pocket, the 2 pants hip pockets (the ones you stick your hands in just before you have someone yelling at you to get your hands out of them), and the 2 pants cargo pockets? Thank you all for your help and not giving me any dumb answers. It may sound dumb to ask (along the same line as "what type of underwear did the female soldiers had on under their combat uniforms", witch by the way I hope its the basic sports bra and briefs) about but like some MCPL types, I like details, its the differance between a good display and a great display.

Also, any sugestions on how to put together the p82 web gear for the average foot soldier and what should be put in the butt pack? I have been laying it out like the American soldier's/marine's web gear from the 1960's, same goes for the backpack.

Thanks


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## The Bread Guy (22 Dec 2010)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - If you lived in Bldg F16 in Petawawa about 1977, you could fit six bottles (the old stubbies) of beer in the shirt hip pockets - three each side.   Walk across the Hussar parade square to the old stables which was the base theatre, pay 75 cents for a movie ticket and buy a large pop. You sat down, the movie started, the lights went out and you poured the pop on the floor. You opened your first beer, and poured it in the empty pop cup. That way, even if it was a bad movie it was a good movie. Afterwards, refreshments in the Coriano Club to discus the artistic merits of the film.


Or so you've been told by third parties, right?  



			
				lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> .... what went in the back pants pocket, the 2 pants hip pockets (the ones you stick your hands in just before you have someone yelling at you to get your hands out of them), and the 2 pants cargo pockets?


Late-70's through mid-90's, I carried a field message book and an aide-memoire in a ziploc baggie (or sometimes in an FMB cover - although mine was home-sewn) in my right-hand pants cargo pocket.



			
				lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> Also, any sugestions on how to put together the p82 web gear for the average foot soldier and what should be put in the butt pack? I have been laying it out like the American soldier's/marine's web gear from the 1960's, same goes for the backpack.


Ahhh, now you'll get all the former Sgts-Major coming out of the woodwork with their individual ideas of what should have gone in there  ;D  Again, my own experience generally:  small garbage bag liner, ranger blanket, socks in its own plastic bag, extra ammo when needed.  This, too, would change based on what job was being done.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Dec 2010)

Cigarettes (often home made) were typically carried in a plastic box accompanied by a zippo lighter that you filled by suspending it, by a wire, into a jerry can of gas.

Pick a pocket.


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## Haletown (22 Dec 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Cigarettes (often home made) were typically carried in a plastic box accompanied by a zippo lighter that you filled by suspending it, by a wire, into a jerry can of gas.
> 
> Pick a pocket.



Would that be a Zippo that was opened with a quick wrist flick and started with a quick finger snap?

Brings back some memories of gasoline flavored Export A's.


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## xo31@711ret (22 Dec 2010)

smokers on the Matawawa Plains after a PET CON (Mid 80's) in the fall: I could carry a 2-4 of the old stubbies with khaki cbts (top & bottom)    ;D


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## Pusser (22 Dec 2010)

The old Motorola flip phones (gigantic by today's standards) and glasses cases fit well in the chest pockets as well.  I usually carried a field message pad in the cargo pocket on the trousers.


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## armyvern (22 Dec 2010)

One week a month, mine would hold tampons. Just saying. It was a necessity.


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## lisa_barbi (22 Dec 2010)

Where would you have placed your keys (when you carry them), a comb (when and if you had hair), handkerchief, wallet (when you carry it) and I think that is the main items. Thank you again all of you, your answers are great, ok the beer ones may not exactly go with the web gear, backpack, helmet, and rifle but it is cool to know.


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## AmmoTech90 (22 Dec 2010)

lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> Where would you have placed your keys (when you carry them), a comb (when and if you had hair), handkerchief, wallet (when you carry it) and I think that is the main items. Thank you again all of you, your answers are great, ok the beer ones may not exactly go with the web gear, backpack, helmet, and rifle but it is cool to know.



Most likely in pockets...

It doesn't matter.  If you do it the way one person did it will be wrong for every other person.  We are not robots who all put their keys in the same spot.  As mentioned earlier, about the only standard thing may, and only may, be the ID card in the interior velcro pocket.  

As far as the zippos and fuel goes I was always torn between gas and naptha.  Gas would last longer, but  burnt smokey and left a rash on my leg.  Naptha evaporated so quick I was lucky if I got a day between refueling, but it burnt cleaner and didn't stink or cause a rash (there, I kept my zippo in the trouser pocket).


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## Shamrock (22 Dec 2010)

I recall somewheres seeing certain orders stating a compass to be carried in one pocket.  Those old school whistles, the ones on the leather fobs, were carried in another.  I believe the pen pocket within the breast pockets was originally intended for dosimeters.


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## the 48th regulator (22 Dec 2010)

Du Maurier Regular (Not the friggen lights either, or the king Size...Never had time to smoke a full one of those) Sideways. 

Plastic Ligher (Never a Zippo, as I would loose it when you bent over, I never had any luck keeping one like others, the Zippo went in the inside breast pocket that had Velcro).  

Pencil (Broken in half and sharpened, so you always had a spare for the dumbass that forgot one for orders).  

Metropolitan Metal Whistle attached to Whistle cord, that was wrapped around shoulder, through epaulet.



dileas

tess


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## OldTanker (22 Dec 2010)

I don't remember exactly what I carried, but I do remember "losing" things in my pockets. There were so many, between the pants, shirt and jacket keys, etc, could just disappear.


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## George Wallace (22 Dec 2010)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> I recall somewheres seeing certain orders stating a compass to be carried in one pocket.  Those old school whistles, the ones on the leather fobs, were carried in another.  I believe the pen pocket within the breast pockets was originally intended for dosimeters.



Epipens, epinephrine autoinjector, or atropine autoinjector.

I carryied my pens in them as we seldom saw autoinjectors.   

Top left pocket for ID, 404s, pens.  Map in right trouser.  Cbt Cap in left Trouser.  Nothing in rear pockets to cause cramping on long road moves.


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## 57Chevy (22 Dec 2010)

For the keys.....oh those keys. Feeding the key ring via a hole in the little loop of the hip pocket was always 
a good idea so as not to lose them.

One of the breast pockets may have been used for the silva compass with the lanyard attached behind the button.

Forget about the trouser back pockets because it was just too combersome to get anything in or out of them,
especially with the web gear.

The trouser cargo pocket was great for the folded map (it made it easy to see who was carrying one) ;D
Those pockets were also good for certain items from the ration packs or spare parts like lantern mantles.

*after getting real itchy a few times from the leaking "world famous" zippo, I tossed it and replaced it with the
"even more famous" Bic lighter.


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## vonGarvin (22 Dec 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Epipens, epinephrine autoinjector, or atropine autoinjector.


I recall that the "pen holder" slot was originally intended for the dosimeter; however, my first dosimeter was circular (issued to me in 1989).  So, perhaps it was later intended for the autoinjector.  (I used a "training autoinjector" on my thighs during a QL 1 Infantryman course back in my Militia time.  One word: ouch!)


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## The Bread Guy (22 Dec 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I recall that the "pen holder" slot was originally intended for the dosimeter; however, my first dosimeter was circular (issued to me in 1989).  So, perhaps it was later intended for the autoinjector.


The only dosimeters I ever saw in central Canada were the "little telescope" ones (like the one on the far right below)





that fit into the "pen holder" sleeve on the side of the (right?) chest pocket.


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## the 48th regulator (22 Dec 2010)

57Chevy said:
			
		

> One of the breast pockets may have been used for the silva compass with the lanyard attached behind the button.



Frig me, I forgot about that, so true.  The Silva compass threaded through the button and tucked into the pocket.

dileas

tess


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Dec 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I recall that the "pen holder" slot was originally intended for the dosimeter; however, my first dosimeter was circular (issued to me in 1989).  So, perhaps it was later intended for the autoinjector.  (I used a "training autoinjector" on my thighs during a QL 1 Infantryman course back in my Militia time.  One word: ouch!)



The small puck shaped one that hung around your neck was a DT-60\PD and had to be sent in to the techs and had to be exposed to near UV radiation to be read. The pen shaped one (CD V-742, IIRC) was able to be read and zeroed (reset), by the use of a charger, by the person carrying it. Both would give values of personal exposure, but the later was able to be read immediately by looking through it at the graph.

Your atropine (3) and diazepam (1) auto injectors are carried in your mask carrier, where everyone knows where they are, and how many, in case you're incapacitated. Epipen are a recentl (20 years/) phneomenon for someone to carry.

The pen pocket was designed for your dosimeter, but never had widespread use for that.

That's how I remember everything anyways.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Dec 2010)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Frig me, I forgot about that, so true.  The Silva compass threaded through the button and tucked into the pocket.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



What is this 'Silva' you talk about? A prismatic in a pouch, attached to your webbing is my memory. ;D


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## the 48th regulator (22 Dec 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> What is this 'Silva' you talk about? A prismatic in a pouch, attached to your webbing is my memory. ;D



Remember,

I was the kid that could not keep a good zippo.  I think every base in Ontario, and Gagetown, has a Lighter with my name engraved on it, lying in it's training area.  I needed the button, and the string attached to  the compass to be able to keep it close at hand!  

dileas

tess


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## Loachman (23 Dec 2010)

lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> I read some place that the 2 chest pockets and the shirt cargo pockets held rifle magazines, but if the magazines where fully loaded, would it not rip the shirt? How comfertable would it have been? Could you use them to hold magazines while wearing the p82 web gear?



Full mags would not rip the shirt, as it was designed to withstand the stresses. Carrying magazines this way was uncomfortable and the magazines were awkward to get in and out, especially during fire-and-movement, and whenever one changed shirts a lot of stuff had to be removed and put into the clean shirt. The 82 Pattern webbing had magazine pouches, including pouches for the C1 SMG (no means of carrying them were provided prior to that), so carrying magazines in pockets was no longer required.

The olive green combat clothing was designed along with the 64 Pattern webbing, which was very lightweight, had few pouches (mess tin pouch, water bottle pouch, grenade pouch, and compass pouch, but no magazine pouches - many people took to using 51 Pattern ammunition pouches for magazines).

Photographs and description of the 82 Pattern webbing components can be found at http://mpmuseum.org/securequip2.html.

Figure 3 of http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-056///MP-056-18A.pdf lacks the mess tin/utility pouch, which should be on the opposite side of the small pack from the water bottle carrier. These may have been reversed at some units. This paper may be of interest to those who want to know more about development of the current CTS equipment (Tac Vest, Small Pack, and Rucksack).

There's another photo at http://www.queensu.ca/conferences/mvhr/images/pdf/presentations/Stevenson_Joan_MVHR2010.pdf, which shows the water bottle on the right-hand side, where I carried mine.



			
				lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> WOW! wish I was around back than.



If you were, then you would be as old as some of us. The trade-off may or may not have been worth it.

Are you near any military museums?


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## Pusser (23 Dec 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> The small puck shaped one that hung around your neck was a DT-60\PD and had to be sent in to the techs and had to be exposed to near UV radiation to be read. The pen shaped one (CD V-742, IIRC) was able to be read and zeroed (reset), by the use of a charger, by the person carrying it. Both would give values of personal exposure, but the later was able to be read immediately by looking through it at the graph.



These dosimeters had different purposes.  The DT60 (puck) was supposed to track an individual's total exposure over a long period of time (e.g. years, a career?), whereas the pencil shaped ones were more for immediate exposure.  They were given to teams with instructions like, stay outside until you receive this much and then come back in.  Then the dosimeter would be zeroed and given to the next team, etc.


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## lisa_barbi (23 Dec 2010)

the closest we have to a military museum is the old cj5 jeep at the gas station that someone put a plow on. witch is also another reason why i would like to put a hole uniform set together. so far its not so bad but its the detailed items, like whats in the and each of the pockets, that is some what hard to find out. another things that are hard to find out is stuff like what did the old dog tags looked like (i have an idea what was stamped on them just do not know what it looked like, also how long the chain is), what rest did the watch go on, what shoulder dose the lanyard go on and what was attached to it, what type of underwear (and color) did women wear (guys i am taking is briefs and any color they like) under the combat uniform (witch i have assumed is basic every day civilian underwear), was the boots crossed laced or ladder laced (witch if someone could explain how to do it so it looks good), also trying to find out what did the sunglasses look like and so on and so forth. small little things that you never think about when you are doing it or even care about. little hints and advice that was given like field stripping a cigerette (even though that dose not apply her but you get the point, hopefully).


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## Loachman (23 Dec 2010)

Are you near any large cities?

Pocket contents varied, as has been said, with the individual. There is no wrong or right. The old I tags looked like the current ones, but were aluminum instead of the current stainless steel. We've had the stainless ones for many years now, adn I cannot recall when they first came out. I believe that CP gear can make up the current ones. There's also a thread somewhere that can help. Watches were/are worn on whichever wrist the wearer wished/wishes. Lanyards could vary by unit, if worn, but most that I saw were worn on the left shoulder. The only issued underwear were the olive green cotton boxer shorts. I don't think that many people wore them, so pick whatever you like that was available back then and you'll be reasonably right. Combat boots were/are cross-laced, and I've seen variations of that, too. I believe that there's a thread about that on here, too. Silver-framed light-weight polarized "aviator"-style sunglasses were available for purchase, and there were a couple of different sunglasses issued to aircrew (none of which were popular). Most people who wore sunglasses wore whatever they wanted, so long as they were conservative.

And it's "which" that you should be using, unless you mean warty-nosed women with pointy black hats.


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## lisa_barbi (23 Dec 2010)

yea sorry for the bad spelling. can not spel worth a darn, good thing me math is gooder. just kidding, it worse! Oh come on have a little ha ha guys


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## lisa_barbi (24 Dec 2010)

Can someone supply me with information and/or photos of the old 1980s 1 SVC BN mess dress uniform (as warn by a cpl)? Also did the 1 SVC BN have a dress red uniform simular to the ones warn by the RCR? If so, what did it look like?


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## Scott (24 Dec 2010)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Remember,
> 
> I was the kid that could not keep a good zippo.  I think every base in Ontario, and Gagetown, has a Lighter with my name engraved on it, lying in it's training area.  I needed the button, and the string attached to  the compass to be able to keep it close at hand!
> 
> ...



I found one in Lawfield and hawked it on eBay. Cheers for the beers it bought.

Unrelated, but my best disovery was that the parka pockets mag holder fit a tallboy to exact spec. Great when watching Bn hockey games.


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## Franko (24 Dec 2010)

Merged your threads and changed the title for accuracy.

*The Army.ca Staff*


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## Pusser (24 Dec 2010)

lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> Can someone supply me with information and/or photos of the old 1980s 1 SVC BN mess dress uniform (as warn by a cpl)? Also did the 1 SVC BN have a dress red uniform simular to the ones warn by the RCR? If so, what did it look like?



Although corporals now can, they generally don't wear mess kit and in the 1980s it would be very surprising to see that.  Only regular force officers are required to have mess kit.  Most often, corporals would simply wear their service dress uniform with a white shirt, black bow tie and undress ribbons for a mess function.

Unlike a regiment, the composition of a service battalion consists of personnel from several branches of the CF and since ceremonial uniforms go by branch/regiment, there is no one ceremonial uniform that they all could wear.   Thus, in answer to your question, there is no red uniform for 1 SVC BN.


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## Blackadder1916 (24 Dec 2010)

lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> Can someone supply me with information and/or photos of the old 1980s 1 SVC BN mess dress uniform (as warn by a cpl)? Also did the 1 SVC BN have a dress red uniform simular to the ones warn by the RCR? If so, what did it look like?



Details of mess dress will vary by regiment or branch.  1 Svc Bn (being neither a regiment or branch) would not have a unique mess dress, but the individuals in that unit would wear the mess kit appropriate to their branch.  Uniforms changed in the later half of the 1980s when DEUs were introduced; same for mess dress uniforms.  Unless one was entitled to wear (and could still fit into) their pre-unification Canadian Army mess dress, they wore the CF standard pattern (same as the current air force one?) with some minor differences in accoutrements.  While it may now be more common (but still rare) for Cpls to acquire mess uniforms, it was very unusual back then; I never knew any junior NCOs who had mess kit.  In the event of having to attend a "mess dinner" (very rare back then for junior ranks - probably the first for most would be the "training" mess dinner on JLC) the uniform would be "CF greens" (and later DEUs) with a white shirt and black bowtie for men or the "dress blouse" for women.


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## lisa_barbi (27 Dec 2010)

Did many of the female soldiers place their wallets in the inside shirt pocket or in the rear pants pockets? Also did many put their keys in the inside shirt pocket too?


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Dec 2010)

lisa_barbi said:
			
		

> Did many of the female soldiers place their wallets in the inside shirt pocket or in the rear pants pockets? Also did many put their keys in the inside shirt pocket too?



As has been stated a couple of times before, placement of items was a personal preference. You put stuff where you wanted. If you are going to make a display, YOU can put things where YOU personally want and  YOU won't be wrong.

Please, enough OK?

Milnet.ca Staff


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