# A Work in Progress (Advice Welcome)



## ktiger (14 Oct 2013)

Hello everyone! My name's Kristen, I'm an aspiring military pilot. While I've been interested in being a military pilot for a long time, I never really told anybody because I thought my parents wouldn't approve. I'm over that now, but I missed out on air cadets and similar opportunities.

Hearing how competitive the pilot program is, I'm currently working on making up for my lost experience, and becoming an ideal candidate for the program. I see myself at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my health history. I was diagnosed with depression in the past, and am on medication for it, I've been told the safe process of getting off the medication will take me about 3 years, so I have some time since my local medical officer told me I couldn't apply until I was a year off the medication. On top of that I have hypothyroidism and post nasal drip (thought to be asthma at first), but those aren't as much of a concern right now.

With the coming 4 years I plan to take Physics 30 and Math 31, hopefully getting high 80s in  both, I've been trying to find a good school in my area with extra curricular activities, and good teachers. After that I'll spend my time getting a couple technical degrees for fun, and as a backup (probably biomedical engineering technology and animal health technology), as well as volunteering at habitat for humanity (and some animal rescues), getting it top physical condition (including playing sports), and I might try some flight school in my area. I'm trying to do as much as possible to be accepted as a pilot (with medical officer and military police as my 2nd and 3rd choices).

I'm hoping to join the military as soon as I'm able, I really look up to the men and women of the CF.

In the meantime I thought I may as well spend this time applying advice I've been giving to help me reach my goals. If anyone has suggestions, I'd really appreciate it.
I also have a few concerns you guys might be able to help me with...
-If possible I'd like to learn some basics (mostly in drill) before basic training to get a leg up, if anyone knows a resource for this, that would be great.
-I've been unable to get a general point of reference for the school grades required to be competitive applying as a pilot, if anyone has a general idea of the numbers I'd like to know.
-Finally if anyone has some advice for my situation, to tips on preparing I'd love to hear them.

Thanks for your time!


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## PuckChaser (14 Oct 2013)

ktiger said:
			
		

> -If possible I'd like to learn some basics (mostly in drill) before basic training to get a leg up, if anyone knows a resource for this, that would be great.



Don't bother. Basic training is just that, they start you at the very basic level. Even former cadets that may have been on drill teams learn everything all over again. Spend that time instead volunteering in your community and making yourself a better candidate.


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## ktiger (14 Oct 2013)

Makes sense, thanks! I'm hoping to do some work for habitat for humanity, I'm still looking for more opportunities though (I'll also be volunteering at a church and  vet clinic for other reasons).


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## mariomike (14 Oct 2013)

ktiger said:
			
		

> My name's Kristen, I'm an aspiring military pilot.





			
				ktiger said:
			
		

> I was diagnosed with depression in the past, and am on medication for it, I've been told the safe process of getting off the medication will take me about 3 years, so I have some time since my local medical officer told me I couldn't apply until I was a year off the medication.



In case you have not yet seen them, there are a couple of discussions you may wish to follow.

The "So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12744.0/nowap.html

The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0

You mentioned your parents. That seems to be resolved. But, in case you are interested...

How to get family on board
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13678.0.html


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## Van Gogh (15 Oct 2013)

From what I have read in these forums so far play team sports (to show teamwork capabilities) as well as do something that will show that you have some leadership skills.

P.S. Exercising (proper exercising, when you actually push yourself to your limits) is the best anti-depressant out there, 10 x more effective than any anti-depressant.
With exercising you will kill 2 rabbits, be in better physical shape and get off anti-depressants quicker (note I am no doctor, consult your doctor for these but I am pretty sure it will help)


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## ktiger (16 Oct 2013)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies. Currently looking for more places to volunteer in my community, as well as a sport I can play with my limited experience. There's not many options for team sports in my area for women, I can play floor hockey during the summer, but I'm having trouble finding anything else.

Edit: Would you guys happen to know what kind of marks I need to be competitive? If just the hockey and Habitat for Humanity is good enough, or if I should drive to the city for more sports, and volunteer opportunities. Am I at a big disadvantage not being in air cadets as a kid?
I'm going to do as much as possible either way, I just want to know how realistic this may be for me.

I'm also considering getting my private license first if that would help, it's just a bit expensive.
Security training and first aid are other things I'm looking into, on top of Kung-Fu and Jujitsu.

Reading through the other forum topics right now.


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## Van Gogh (16 Oct 2013)

ktiger said:
			
		

> Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies. Currently looking for more places to volunteer in my community, as well as a sport I can play with my limited experience. There's not many options for team sports in my area for women, I can play floor hockey during the summer, but I'm having trouble finding anything else.
> 
> Edit: Would you guys happen to know what kind of marks I need to be competitive? If just the hockey and Habitat for Humanity is good enough, or if I should drive to the city for more sports, and volunteer opportunities. Am I at a big disadvantage not being in air cadets as a kid?
> I'm going to do as much as possible either way, I just want to know how realistic this may be for me.
> ...



Its more about your approach and the principal you show. How much of one thing you did and how hard you did it is not the most important thing IMO. The idea is you should just try to do something that makes you a better person and also if its relevant to the trade you applied than that's another plus.

Have you tried Lacrosse? Canada's national sport, good teamwork sport, plus I know that there are a lot of female Lacrosse clubs in Canada.

If you live in Toronto I can recommend a couple of good places you can try applying for volunteering experience.


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## ktiger (16 Oct 2013)

I actually live in Alberta. I  actually like lacrosse, and have all the equipment, but  I have barely played it so it's hard to sell myself to a team, I'm going to try and look into a team in the city though.

I'm going to put all I can into this, I hope it's worth it and I'm accepted.


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## Loachman (6 Nov 2013)

ktiger said:
			
		

> I'm also considering getting my private license first if that would help, it's just a bit expensive.



If you want to get your private pilot's licence, get your private pilot's licence. Don't expect that to help you, though. It may, or it may not. It is only worth the expense if you want it for personal reasons. If you don't, I'd advise you to spend the money on something more useful.


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## ktiger (21 Nov 2013)

Hey guys, one last question.

I've been searching the forums but I haven't found a clear answer; is air cadets a big deal? I'm I at a big disadvantage for not being in air cadets? I'm too old now.

I ask because my backup is to be a vet, which requires a lot of my time and dedication, so I just want to get an idea of how much time I should dedicate to each area.


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## JorgSlice (21 Nov 2013)

ktiger said:
			
		

> Hey guys, one last question.
> 
> I've been searching the forums but I haven't found a clear answer; is air cadets a big deal? I'm I at a big disadvantage for not being in air cadets? I'm too old now.
> 
> I ask because my backup is to be a vet, which requires a lot of my time and dedication, so I just want to get an idea of how much time I should dedicate to each area.



No


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## ktiger (14 Feb 2014)

A bit discouraged, having trouble in school due to extreme anxiety. I'm still getting 80s, but not the 90s I need. Still having problems with depression and my psychiatrist/counselor/dad/friend have all told me I'm not mentally capable of being in the military. I still want to, but maybe it's just not in my skillset? Not a question of confidence, but more of just how I am, at this point even high school classes are a challenge.


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## vonGarvin (14 Feb 2014)

ktiger said:
			
		

> A bit discouraged, having trouble in school due to extreme anxiety. I'm still getting 80s, but not the 90s I need. Still having problems with depression and my psychiatrist/counselor/dad/friend have all told me I'm not mentally capable of being in the military. I still want to, but maybe it's just not in my skillset? Not a question of confidence, but more of just how I am, *at this point even high school classes are a challenge*.


If this is the case because you don't like classroom settings, you're not going to like it in the CAF.







Although the candidates sitting here are senior Non Commissioned Officers (aka sergeants), it's not unlike where the majority of your time in basic training will take place.


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## ktiger (15 Feb 2014)

I don't mind class at all. That doesn't look intimidating or anything, could be interesting. I just have a problem with anxiety right now, and school isn't helping.


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## Loachman (17 Feb 2014)

Without wishing to appear _*too*_ brutal, you should perhaps make your alternative career plan your primary.

If you have extreme anxiety problems now, in school, you are going to have them multiplied drastically during flying training.


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## ktiger (31 Mar 2014)

I'm starting to understand being a pilot isn't really in my skill set.  I still would still like to join the air reserves at least. I'm not sure what to do with myself for now though, I have to wait two years after stopping my medication, seems so long.


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## ktiger (2 Apr 2014)

I don't want to give up yet, I know this is what I want to do. Even if I'm accepted under my second or third job choice. 

I've been doing a lot better with my anxiety. I don't have anxiety under pressure, only when I have too long to sit and think.
I know I can beat this. I hope it doesn't give me some sort of permanent bad record though.

I wish there was more I could do now, but I need the time to get in physical/mental shape anyway.


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## RedcapCrusader (2 Apr 2014)

ktiger said:
			
		

> I don't want to give up yet, I know this is what I want to do. Even if I'm accepted under my second or third job choice.
> 
> I've been doing a lot better with my anxiety. I don't have anxiety under pressure, only when I have too long to sit and think.
> I know I can beat this. I hope it doesn't give me some sort of permanent bad record though.
> ...



There's a lot of sitting and thinking and waiting for hours in the CAF. Our unofficial motto is Hurry Up and Wait. Depending on your chosen occupations as well, you may need to be in defensive positions for hours on end in silence.


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## ktiger (3 Apr 2014)

Well I'll have to see. I'm not doing anything anytime soon. My anxiety levels have been improving a lot, so I'm not giving up. Even if I just try the reserves...we'll see, I might pursue something else. I'm taking this time to explore my interests.


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## ktiger (30 Jun 2014)

Just an update if anyone is interested, or has some wisdom to share.

Some people have tried to discourage me but I'm not giving up.
Everything has been going really well. I'm almost off my medication and feeling good. Been working a lot, volunteering a bit , and doing plenty of sports. In August I'll be going to College to take a 2 year associate of arts in outdoor leadership. It should be a lot of fun, I'll learn a lot of new skills and hopefully it helps me have a better shot of being accepted as a pilot. Still working on improving at a lot of things, but I'm making progress. I also need a bigger support network, so hopefully I can work on improving that.
I'll be going to the Cold Lake air show this summer, can't wait!

Feel like I'm really changing my life for the better. I really feel like this is right for me.

Any encouragement or advice would go a long way, thanks guys!


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## Vell (3 Jul 2014)

Just out of curiosity, do you want to join the CAF through the ROTP program (going to the Royal Military College in Kingston Ontario for a full 4 year university degree all expenses paid) or through the DEO programme (you go to university on your own and join the CAF after graduation). Either way, you need a full 4 year university degree before you can become a pilot as it is an officer position.

It sounds as if you may still be in High School grade 11 or 12. If that is the case, you are likely ~16-18 years old in which case you can still join cadets (up to 19 years old). From as early as 17 with parental consent you can also join the reserves but you may not meet the requirements for it yet due to medical issues. Look into it either way. It can be a good way to get experience with military life and is good for some extra income while you are in school or working (usually just 1 evening a week plus training).

You have Medical Officer for your second choice which requires that not only you complete your pre-medical 4-year degree entirely on your own (there is no ROTP plan for medical officer) but you also must at least have unconditional acceptance into medical school (the CAF will pay for your school if you get to that point). Getting unconditional acceptance to med school is no small feat, you need to really work your but off in university to get to that point (and acceptance into med school requires more than just good grades, there are interviews and a very difficult pre-entry test as well, the MCAT).

You have military police as you third choice. That too has a lot of extra requirements and is very competitive. Read around the forums a little, but from what I was seeing, they are looking for candidates with full 4 year degrees in a criminal justice-related field and experience in the police or RCMP as a plus (I am not as familiar with the MP requirements, so someone correct me if I am wrong).

Essentially, you are applying for about the most stressful, competitive and/or highly educated trades in the CAF outside of internal only trades. If this is what you want to do though, definitely go for it, but you ARE going to have to work really hard for any of those jobs and overcome your medical issues to a degree even many people with no previous psychological issues would find overwhelming. Either way, you will need to declare your medical history to the CAF before you join and you need to be honest. They will likely ask for a letter from your psychiatrist (or A psychiatrist) confirming that you have successfully stayed off your medication and have not suffered from depression or any other conditions as a result. 

Be sure to go to 

http://www.forces.ca/en/jobexplorer/browsejobs-70

and look only at NCM jobs (put a check mark in NCM in the search function) if you do not intend on getting a full 4 year degree before working for the CAF. 

Officer jobs (pilot, medical officer, MP officer) pay more, but they ALL require a full university degree (2 or 3 year diplomas do not cut it) and are reportedly much more stressful than NCM trades.

I wish you success in your efforts as it is always a noble cause to strive to improve one's self.

Note: I am just an applicant, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I have been reading these forums everyday for about a year religiously soaking up as much information as I can before I made the decision to join. Go read about the experiences of those who have already joined the trades you are interested in on these forums.


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## ktiger (4 Jul 2014)

I'm actually 20. I will be applying for ROTP. I've decided against medical officer being my second choice, but instead I'm thinking about Air Combat Systems Officer as my second, then either Military Police Officer or Engineering Officer as my third. All of which I would apply for direct entry if available. I'd rather focus on my first choice for now though, and improve my chances of being accepted as a rotary wing pilot.

If I'm declined for all of the above I'd consider applying to be a NCM, but I haven't found any of those jobs to interest me as much, and again I'd rather focus on improving my resume to be a pilot.

We'll see how the psychological stuff goes, but right now I'm feeling great. This has really motivated me and working towards it has changed my mindset big time. I feel this is right for me, and I feel more comfortable with myself working towards being in the military than my previous plans of being a veterinarian. I've been on the lowest dose of my medication for a while now and it's been going good. Exercise seems to help more than the medication ever did. There's been so much that's changed in my life lately, I feel like a different person.

Hopefully I'll have a good shot at being accepted as a pilot...or even my second or third trade in a couple years. I've missed out on a lot not being in air cadets, now being in sports until now, etc. But I hope it's not too late to change, I hope I'm not at too much of a disadvantage.

 I'm getting a degree in Outdoor Leadership, getting involved with multiple non-profit organizations (and plan to lead a mission trip to Africa or Asia in the future), doing multiple sports (lacrosse, hockey, archery, kayaking, kung-fu), and upgrading my high school courses (from 80s to 90s). I'm also working a lot in a job that's hard to get, and I may apply to work in security as well.


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## Vell (4 Jul 2014)

> I'm getting a degree in Outdoor Leadership



An undergraduate degree is a 4 year bachelor program usually granted by a university. They are always 4 years plus. Are you sure that what you are getting is a degree and not a diploma or certificate? If it is a full 4 year degree, you need not bother with ROTP. As soon as you have your degree in hand, you can apply directly as pilot or ACSO. Keep in mind however that 'Outdoor Leadership' (I have never heard of a bachelor degree with that major though) will not likely let you DEO as an engineering officer nor a military police officer. In both of those cases you will likely need to earn a second degree (either on your own or through the ROTP programme).

I very highly suggest that if you are seriously thinking about being an officer in one of the trades you have listed above that you change your current degree (since you are just starting) to something related to MPO or engineering officer (whichever ones interests you most). Many skills required to pass pilot training (and to a certain extent ACSO as well) are almost impossible to be studied for which means no matter how hard you try, there is a possibility that you lack a certain skill to be a pilot (it is why I personally think it is the hardest trade to get, just working hard is not enough, you need too many natural gifts as well like extremely quick reaction time and great memory). Definitely try for pilot and ACSO as you may posses those natural skills, but since you can have ANY degree for those positions, plan your university degree around the two trades you selected which require specific degrees (something like Bachelor of Applied Science in Civil Engineering for engineering officer or a criminal justice degree for MPO). Also keep in mind that the medical requirements for pilot are WAY higher than any other trade (meaning you could get disqualified for a condition you don't even know you had). All I am saying is keep a plan B... just in case.



> If I'm declined for all of the above I'd consider applying to be a NCM, but I haven't found any of those jobs to interest me as much, and again I'd rather focus on improving my resume to be a pilot.



NCM are the hands on jobs. If you want to be an officer you are basically saying you would prefer leading, managing, administering, facilitating and doing desk work rather than doing the hands on work (Pilot, Medical Officer and Legal Officer being a bit special).


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## ktiger (5 Jul 2014)

My mistake, it's called an associate of arts in outdoor leadership. I'm just taking it for my own benefit while I'm waiting to be medically clear. I understand I'll still have to get a degree, which I plan to get through the military.

The school I'm going to also has an aviation program, but I don't want to spend 75,000$ on that, then apply to the military and not be accepted as a pilot. Then that would go to waste and I'd have to get a different degree anyway. 

I would like to do more hands on work, but I do want to lead, I want to stand out, do something special, and I want to be in the air force, but as a NCM there's not much in the air force. I thought about infantry but my dad told me I wouldn't fit in with a bunch of infantry guys. It's not the end of the world if I end up a NCM though.

No matter what my education in outdoor leadership and everything should help make my resume something the military is interested in,


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