# My view...



## Meadus (24 Jan 2006)

When I think of what cadets should be like I see young people who would like to join the army when of age. When I look at many cadets I see immature, irresponsible, disrespectful, children. This does not mean every cadet, I myself am a cadet and I am the complete opposite. I will be enlisting into the Canadian Forces next year, due to the fact I am only 15. I joined cadets to get interest in the army. I think there should be guidelines in cadets that you must serve a minimum of 1 year in the Canadian Forces after your so called if you wish to be a cadet career !:-\! My cadet corps went to Saskatchewan, that was a complete waste of DND's money, I know of an air cadet corps that went to Europe. I understand one of the three aims of cadets is to gain interest in the Canadian Forces, but that isn't enough. There is so much money spent on cadets that could go to the military and help. I suggest if you stay in cadets until your sixteen when you leave you must enlist, immediately!

Feel free to post any comments and questions...


----------



## p_imbeault (24 Jan 2006)

Actually there are alot of Cadets who join just to have fun, make friends and have great experiences. The amount of cadets that want to join the CF as soon as they are eligible is smaller then you may think. And sure there are alot of immature cadets (usually when the join, after they have been in for upwards of 3 years they tend to become mature and responsible) But you will find immature people where ever you go I'm sure.


----------



## Q.Y. Ranger (24 Jan 2006)

"When I look at many cadets I see immature, irresponsible, disrespectful, children." 

Well, that is because most of the cadets are children. Most just entering the teenage years. I do not agree that they should be forced into joining the CF, but i do believe there should be more of an attempt to show intrest in joining. I quit cadets roughly a year ago, to join the Reserves. As soon as the officers discovered that i was planning on leaving for the Res., they first called me in for a meeting, basically telling me that they do not want me to leave, and that i should stay in cadets. Well, i told them that for the past 3 years (my time in cadets) i had been planning on leaving as soon as i was eligible to join. This immediately made them dislike me. After that, i started getting the crap jobs, getting in trouble for things that others wouldn't have, it even went so far to the point where roomers started, which the CO's daughter told us she started. All because i was planning on leaving cadets for the Reserves. Things like this i do not believe are acceptable in any way. If one of their cadets is deciding to leave for the military, i believe that they should not only support them in their decision, but they should encourage them as well. Like it was already said, one of there goals is to create intrest in the Canadian forces. It is not to create intrest, and then encourage them not to join. All i am trying to say is that i believe there should be more effort put forth in creating intrest in the Canadian forces, and CIC officers should encourage there cadets to join. 

Mike


----------



## p_imbeault (24 Jan 2006)

Mike,

Actually I had the exact opposite reaction  
When my officers found out I was planning on applying for the CF this May, they asked me to reconsider, asked me if I had thought it through, and after I had explained to them that it was what I wanted too do, and that I had been considering it for a few years, they said they understood and gave me their full support. One of our officers is a former Infantry NCO, and he was giving me tips, proper push up form, answered some questions I had about life in the Infantry, about BMQ. Also the past CO and the current both offered to write me a letter of reference for my application.

I think the situation may vary from corps to corps.


----------



## Meadus (24 Jan 2006)

Thank you for the opinions, maybe I shouldn't have been so harsh. I know where ever I go there will be immature people but I would just like to see cadets as mature teens. I feel like cadets are leading towards the boyscout side other then the military. I know many people in my affiliated unit who are encouraging me to join and I would like the anybody who is enlisted to encourage the cadets to move  up to the real deal, not by forcing them, in the end though it is there decision.

I agree that what ever your decision is your officers should support you. My officers would like to see me enlist in the army when I age out of cadets, I have been told I was going to be RSM, but whenever they hear I am just going to end up leaving they always try to talk me out of it. My corps total strength is around 50 cadets, 1/10 of them joined so they could know more and join the army later, 3/10's say there parents force them to come, and the rest give mixed reasons. Thats only 5 people who are willing to join this has to get higher in order to have a successful military. I would like to eventually see that double or triple but I can't do it by myself, I want a high amount of servicemen in the army and I am sure many other people do as well, many young cadets need that extra push of motivation to join and I would like everyone to help.

I apologize for being so harsh earlier in the thread.


----------



## c.jacob (24 Jan 2006)

As my CO always said when I was in cadets (I'd imagine alot of CO's said this).  It's better to have 10 cadets who want to train than 200 cadets who don't care.


M. Sparks: You didn't happen to be an ONTR cadet did you?  This CO and his/her daughter sound familiar.


----------



## p_imbeault (24 Jan 2006)

I'm not sure about this one, but I think only a small fraction of soldiers in the CF are former Cadets. And yes your officers should be encouraging you if you show an interest in joining, not harassing you about it.


----------



## Q.Y. Ranger (24 Jan 2006)

Jacob said:
			
		

> M. Sparks: You didn't happen to be an ONTR cadet did you?  This CO and his/her daughter sound familiar.



No, i was not. 

Mike


----------



## GGHG_Cadet (24 Jan 2006)

For the people who are saying that the officers should encourage you to join the CF, have you ever thought of it from their point of view? They have put money and effort into training you so you can become a future leader of the corps but then you just skip out without helping them. 

I am currently a MWO and I have wanted to join the reserves for some time now but I have decided against it every time because I feel that I owe it to my officers to stay and help train the next generation of leaders for the corps instead of leaving them out to dry. I think it is important to give back to the corps after all they have done to develop me in to the person I am today. By staying with your corps you can also give your junior cadets the same training that you recieved so they can become future leaders within the corps. 

Thats just my 2 cents


----------



## p_imbeault (24 Jan 2006)

GGHG,

You speak the truth, It really depends on the corps though. Corps with 50+ Cadets usually have a healthy amount of Sr. NCO's to carry on with training of the Cadets. It would be a real shame if it was a smaller corps losing one of a very limited number of Seniors.

 One thing I considered before I decided on leaving my corps to start a career; was that there was a person who could take my place when I left. I feel confident that the corps has a someone who is quite capable of handling my former duties, and I plan on suggesting to my officers before I leave that he is the candidate I would consider (Though I think they have the same Cadet in mind, they are not blind after all).

And of course they are going to be a little upset that you are leaving. There is a speicial bond between the Sr NCO's and the officers of a corps, we are like family (I hope that didn't sound too cheesy lol).

Regards,


----------



## GGHG_Cadet (24 Jan 2006)

I only wish I could nominate someone else because I would very much like to join the reserves but in my case it is not possible. I am still not 16 but I really want to join my affiliated unit but I feel accountable to my corps and eventually I came to the conclusion that it is best that I remain with the corps for a couple of years when they need me and the reserves will always be there. It was a hard choice but already I know I have made the right one.


----------



## p_imbeault (24 Jan 2006)

Good on ya for staying, I'm sure they appreciate it.  8)


----------



## Sf2 (24 Jan 2006)

Why the heck did your cadet corps go to Saskatchewan??


----------



## Sloaner (25 Jan 2006)

It is quite common, if not encouraged, for cadet corps to do cultural exchages within canada to expose youth in the program to the different ways of life across the country.  I have been lucky to visit almost every province and territory across this great nation, unfortunately excluding BC, through cadets and mt professional career, so I understand the need to expose peopel to the various walks of life.

Speaking with many of my CIC bretheren, and they can back me up if they so choose, I encourage our senior cadets to seek out reserve and regular force employment "when they feel they are ready". Many cadets unfrotunately think that after two years they are ready to be an infantry soldier and rush into these ranks.  Not that htey are not capable individuals, but they have not taken the most vital of life lessons that cadets has to offer them. 

As a CIC officer my job is to help them make those decisions and ensure they enter into these life co\hoices with as much information as possible.  I wil never hold back a cadet who wants to serve their country, but it is my duty to present the differences beteween the programs and a responibility to listen if they have doubts.  I would encourage any cadet looking to join the PRes or RegF to talk to your oficers about the commitment, and listen to what they have to say.  Even those who may not have served have your best interests at heart and will not try and steer you wrong.  They may even be able to connect you to the extra resources you need to make an informed decision.

The cadet program is specific, take from it what you can, and use it for the rest of your life.  The same goes for what you will learn in the PRes, its different, but no more or less important.  Decide what you want to learn and find the best environment to do so, your officers can help if you believe it or not.

If all else fails feel free to PM me, I've been on both sides and will help where I can although my experience is limited.


----------



## Pea (25 Jan 2006)

short final said:
			
		

> Why the heck did your cadet corps go to Saskatchewan??



My corps went to Saskatchewan too. We were an Army cadet corps in Northern Alberta, hoping to get an exchange with another Army cadet corps on the East Coast. (So we could see another area of Canada). We ended up being offered an exchange with an Air cadet corps in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. Honestly, it was no fun at all. We went from a small town in AB, to a small town in Sask. Where is the fun in that? I think that the money for that trip could have been spent much better by having our affiliated unit travel from Edmonton and spend some time with us. (if possible)


----------



## Sloaner (26 Jan 2006)

Sorry Piper, but I don't need any time to think about it.  For those in the profession of arms, military training is more important, but for those who choose to not pursue this, it is not.  The cadet program enables youth to take skills with them on to university and the working world, as does any military training.  Different skills, scoped to build character and lead to different performance goals, but no better or worse.

Cadets should be encouraged to determine whether they intend to enter the profession of arms and guided to the right training.  As an employer, time in cadets or the Primary Reserves carries the same weight.  Having been in both, and the CIC, I may have a slightly different perspective though.


----------



## muffin (26 Jan 2006)

Sloaner said:
			
		

> As an employer, time in cadets or the Primary Reserves carries the same weight.



Are you saying that an employer would consider cadet time the same way he/she would consider PRes time? This may be the case if you choose to become a CIC officer and continue training into your 20's, but I doubt that if I applied for a job  4 years of cadets from 13-17 would have the same weight as 4 years PRes from 17-21. 

Perhaps I have misunderstood your intent?

muffin


----------



## Neill McKay (26 Jan 2006)

In a well-run cadet unit the cadets will gain intangible things like a sense of responsibility, care for one's appearance, ability to communicate, ability to lead, etc.  In these respects, to a civilian employer there mighn't be as large a difference between a former cadet and a reservist as we might at first think.  The reservist will obviously far exceed the cadet in military skills, but that's of much less interest to a civilian employer than the characteristics I've listed above.

Mind you, you wouldn't have a very hard time finding some civilian employers who didn't know the difference between cadets and reservists in the first place, so the weight carried by membership as a cadet or service in the reserves on a resume might be all the more similar to many.


----------



## muffin (26 Jan 2006)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> In a well-run cadet unit the cadets will gain intangible things like a sense of responsibility, care for one's appearance, ability to communicate, ability to lead, etc.  In these respects, to a civilian employer there mightn't be as large a difference between a former cadet and a reservist as we might at first think.  The reservist will obviously far exceed the cadet in military skills, but that's of much less interest to a civilian employer than the characteristics I've listed above.
> 
> Mind you, you wouldn't have a very hard time finding some civilian employers who didn't know the difference between cadets and reservists in the first place, so the weight carried by membership as a cadet or service in the reserves on a resume might be all the more similar to many.



I can see your point with regards to soldiering skills, character and discipline, but I was thinking more about things such as computer training, trades training, apprenticeships and journeyman quals. - things that you may study in civilian post secondary institutions or trade school that are gained through training and service in the PRes. 

I do now better understand your point though - thank you for the clarification.
muffin


----------



## Sloaner (26 Jan 2006)

Neill has captured the intent of my post quite accurately.  I would expect, however that as with any experience, time away from that experience would limit its value.  Having just completed another round of student hiring, I have some 21 year olds who are primary reserve soldiers who have just completed their first bit of training, and one 20 year old who has 6 years of cadets, and some people with no military background what so ever.  The ex-cadet, whom has been away from the system for only a year, still out performed the competition in the areas of professional bearing, speaking ability, demonstrated time management and organization, as well as formal communications (oral and written).  Which is what I would expect after completing the program.  The reservists generally placed in the top 5, largely through their demonstrated ability to take tasks, organize them, and present a reasonable plan, however they haven't been in long enough to learn some of these other skills yet.  The students without either generally didn't perform as well over all.  

So each of these individuals has taken from their training the aspects they needed, over different periods of time.  I have no doubt that as my reservists progress through that system and are given more training and responsibility, they will surpass my ex-cadet in many ways, but his current skills gained through the cadet system cannot be immediately discounted.  Over time, I'm sure cadets will drop off his CV, but what he learned will continue to present itself and evolve.  This is why I always say the training is no more important or less important, for the INDIVIDUAL, just a different focus.

As for task specific skills, there is no question that the PRes is a far better place to build that foundation as the cadet program just doesn't do it, nor could we expect to be as effective.  In fact, I wouldn't be in the industry I am now were it not for my few limited years in the Communications reserve.  So in that regard, muffin is quite correct.

Thanks for the support Neill.


----------



## muffin (26 Jan 2006)

Well - I am not one to ignore my indiscretions - 
I spoke with one of the board members tonight re: cadets and was surprised to find out that his daughter's cadet experience is helping her not only get into University, but a scholarship as well . She has received several actual certifications as well. I will be the first to admit I was "un-educated" when it comes to cadets and what they are all about - thank you to that member for the information. 
I felt that given the recent information provided to me, I should come back and state that I am now sure that cadet experience carries more merit than I had originally suggested. 

I thought it was important to say as my original post seemed a little arrogant when I re-read it. 



Take care -
muffin


----------



## 3rd Herd (26 Jan 2006)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> In a well-run cadet unit the cadets will gain intangible things like a sense of responsibility, care for one's appearance, ability to communicate, ability to lead, etc.  In these respects, to a civilian employer there mighn't be as large a difference between a former cadet and a reservist as we might at first think.  The reservist will obviously far exceed the cadet in military skills, but that's of much less interest to a civilian employer than the characteristics I've listed above.
> 
> Mind you, you wouldn't have a very hard time finding some civilian employers who didn't know the difference between cadets and reservists in the first place, so the weight carried by membership as a cadet or service in the reserves on a resume might be all the more similar to many.



Okay, first let us tackle the cadet experience verses valuable skills in employment. Air cadets pass MOT exams which qualify them to pilot various types of aircraft and allows for the start of building up the hour count. Add in the fact they understand weather, flight planning and radio communication skills all by the age of 17. I believe the age at which reservists are just starting the military experience. With naval cadets most are experienced sailors in various class boats and depending on location may also have significant open water time. Add in a diving ticket with a log book, knot skills, water rescue skills and practice again all accomplished by the 17 age cap. The aforementioned valid qualifications transfer directly over to the civilian world. Needless to say having obtained these skills through cadets instead of paying for them through a college is fiscally savvy.

Next lets discuss the possible medals some of the cadets may achieve. The Lord Srathcona's, Duke of Edinborough, Legion Medal of Excellence. Despite all having different criteria for obtaining they are medals. All of us in Canada know that unlike some countires awards of these types are few and far between. It definitely goes into a resume if only to open the employers eyes and have the "what are these medals for " dialogue to begin. At this point the cadet's excellent speaking skills and thought organization take over. There are very few medals in the reserve system and very little time is given in the reserve system to to teach effective speaking skills. This is not the fault of the reservists but an entirely different system with differnt outcomes.

Now to the "weekend warrior". In saying this I do not mean to minimize the reserves as I have a better than average understanding of their role. But to most people these days that is still the connotation attached. In most reserve units the first year or so is learning basic military skills, rank structure, saluting ,drill movements few of which are directly transfered over to the civilian world. As to resumes in the civilian word six, seven years of cadet time shows a commitment that few reserves can match. Here I am looking at the twenty year old age group. One of the big conundrums the Canadian Armed Forces is facing right now is the lack of movement of cadets into the regular forces. To be equal the reserves are in the same difficulty attracting new members. Why because based on their experience most cadets are finding easy access into the civilian world.

my two cents

Choo


----------



## ryanmann356 (30 Jan 2006)

Cadets is an excellent resume pad.  When I applied for a job i put all my qualifications on the resume.  Medal of excellence, first aid etc.  The leadership experience is great and it demonstrates ones ability to lead and be lead.  Employers love people with cadet experience.  I cant believe more people arent enrolled in it.


----------

