# Pte. Robert Costall killed in Afghanistan firefight 29 Mar 2006



## jc5778

RIP my fellow Patricia

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/28/kandahar060328.html

Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan firefight
Last Updated Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:15:55 EST
CBC News

One Canadian soldier was killed and three others injured Tuesday night during a firefight with Taliban insurgents in a remote area outside Kandahar, Afghanistan.

    * INDEPTH: Canada in Afghanistan 

Pte. Robert Costall was with the 1st Battlion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based in Edmonton. (HO, DND/Canadian Press))

Pte. Robert Costall was killed in a battle which took place in Helmand province about 110 kilometres northwest of Kandahar, Canadian Forces Brig.-Gen. David Fraser confirmed early Wednesday.

Fraser said Costall died "defending his fellow soldiers and we will not forget his sacrifice."

Costall was with the 1st Battlion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based in Edmonton.

Canadians had been repositioned to the area in response to an earlier incident in which eight Afghan army soldiers were killed.

Fraser said Taliban insurgents attacked coalition forces at about 10 p.m. local time.

The firefight lasted for several hours, he said, adding that a significant number of Taliban were killed during the battle.

The three Canadians injured were in stable condition with non-life threatening injuries, he added. The Department of Defence said it wouldn't release their identities because they are expected to return to duty.

Earlier, the Pentagon confirmed that one U.S. soldier was also killed in the attack.

A U.S. soldier and an Afghan National Army soldier were also wounded.

The injured soldiers were taken to a coalition medical facility in Kandahar for treatment.

Twelve Canadians have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002 – 11 soldiers and one diplomat.

Earlier this month, Cpl. Paul Davis of Bridgewater, N.S., and Master Cpl. Timothy Wilson of Grande Prairie, Alta., were killed when their light armoured vehicle smashed into a taxi and flipped during a routine patrol near Kandahar.


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## rick7475

May our prayers be with the family.


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## Sig_Des

Another...

RIP to both fallen soldiers, and speedy recovery to the injured.

Prayers to the families.

NEVER Forget


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## Jake




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## Scoobie Newbie

Having just gone through this my prayers to those that will be affected by this.  I also hope I don't have to go through it again.  Selfish I know.


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## scm77

Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan

CanWest News Service
Published: Tuesday, March 28, 2006

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - At least one Canadian soldier serving in Afghanistan has been killed in a remote area outside of Kandahar.

In a news conference late Tuesday night, Brigadier-General David Fraser identified the fallen Canadian soldier as *Pte. Robert Costall*. No further details were released.

The U.S. military did announce Wednesday that insurgents in Afghanistan had attacked U.S.-led forces, killing two coalition soldiers. Twelve of the attackers were also reportedly killed, and three more coalition soldiers were reportedly injured.

It’s not clear if the incident is related to the report of the killed Canadian. Reuters reports that one of the foreign troops killed in the attack in the southern province of Helmand was American, but the U.S. military did not identify the nationality of the second foreigner.

The story comes a day after the Kandahar base, home to more than 2,000 Canadian soldiers, came under mortar attack. Shortly after 3 a.m. Tuesday, three loud explosions shook the base, driving troops to their bunkers. No one was believed injured in the attack as the mortars reportedly landed in the sparsely inhabited northern section of the base.

Earlier this month, Lt.-Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the commander of Combined Forces Command Afghanistan, said he expected more attacks as Taliban insurgents grow bolder with warmer weather approaching.

“There will be an increase in violence this spring and we can forecast an increase in violence in the summer,” the U.S. army general said. “But at the end of the day, the government of Afghanistan is winning this fight ... (and) that means that the coalition's winning and that means that NATO’s winning.”

To prove Lt.-Gen. Eikenberry’s point, Canadian soldiers endured a tense and violent day in Afghanistan just a little more than a week ago, twice firing on armed insurgents and encountering a roadside bomb - all as a threatening statement was issued, purportedly by Taliban rebels, warning of a deadly summer for western forces in this country.

Both encounters with suspected Taliban occurred in the rugged Shah Wali Kot region north of Kandahar, where a Canadian battle group, consisting mainly of troops from the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, is in the midst of a major operation to disrupt an influx of enemy forces among villages in the area.

In the first incident on March 16, military officials say a Canadian patrol spotted eight enemy suspects armed with assault rifles, running away from the oncoming patrol toward the village of Safi.

Later in the day, near the village of Shinkay - where Canadian Capt. Trevor Greene was struck down by an axe-wielding attacker on March 4 - a separate Canadian patrol surprised a man setting a bomb, or improvised explosive device (IED), beside a dirt road.

The grim news raises the death toll to 11 soldiers and one Canadian diplomat killed since the military deployed to Afghanistan in 2002.

• April 17, 2002: Sgt. Marc D. Leger, Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer, Pte. Richard A. Green, and Pte. Nathan Smith, were killed by friendly fire when an American fighter jet dropped a laser-guided 225-kilogram bomb on the soldiers during training near Kandahar.

• Oct. 2, 2003: Sgt. Robert Alan Short and Cpl. Robbie Christopher Beerenfenger were killed and three more wounded when their Iltis jeep struck a roadside bomb outside Camp Julien near Kabul.

• Jan. 27, 2004: Cpl. Jamie Murphy was killed and three soldiers wounded by a suicide bomber while patrolling near Camp Julien in an Iltis jeep.

• Nov. 24, 2005: Pte. Braun Scott Woodfield, Royal Canadian Regiment, was killed in a traffic accident in the Light Armoured Vehicle (LAV III) northeast of Kandahar. Three others soldiers suffered serious injuries.

• Jan. 15: Glyn Berry was killed and three soldiers wounded by a suicide bomber in Kandahar. They were patrolling in a G Wagon.

• March 2: Cpl. Paul Davis was killed and six others injured when their LAV III collided with a civilian taxi just west of Kandahar during a routine patrol.

• March 5: Master Cpl. Timothy Wilson dies at a hospital in Germany from injuries he sustained in the March 2 LAV III rollover that killed Cpl. Paul Davis.
© CanWest News Service 2006

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=35e1bc54-12dc-4ec7-80b1-dd573bca9de6&k=74365
-------------
*RIP*


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## Scoobie Newbie

This is reporting he died in a fire fight not that it matters really.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/28/kandahar060328.html

Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan, 3 injured
Last Updated Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:34:19 EST 
CBC News
One Canadian soldier has been killed and three others injured in a remote area outside of Kandahar. 

Canadian Forces Brig.-Gen. David Fraser said Robert Costall was killed in a firefight with the Taliban in Helmand province about 110 kilometres northwest of Kandahar. 

He said Canadians had been repositioned to the area in response to an earlier incident in which eight Afghan army soliders were killed. 

Fraser said that around 10 p.m. local time, Taliban insurgents attacked coalition forces. 

The three Canadians injured were in stable condition with non-life threatening injuries, he said. 

Earlier, the Pentagon confirmed that one U.S soldier and one coalition soldier were killed and one U.S. soldier, three coalition soldiers and an Afghan National Army soldier were injured during an attack on a forward operating base in Helmand province. 

The wounded soldiers were taken to a coalition medical facility in Kandahar for treatment.


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## Pea

RIP.. My thoughts are with the family and friends of the fallen and the injured.


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## CSA

RIP and I would like to express my condolances to the family and friends of the fallen,  as well as my thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of the injured.


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## FormerHorseGuard

i am sorry  for his family and his friends. 

not time to make statements, hope his family finds the support they need from the army, friends and family in this time of need.


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## Scoobie Newbie

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060328/Afghanistan_soldier_060328

A picture of the young fella.


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## William Webb Ellis

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/28/kandahar060328.html

Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan firefight
Last Updated Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:07:53 EST 
CBC News
One Canadian soldier has been killed and three others injured during a firefight with Taliban insurgents in a remote area outside of Kandahar. 


INDEPTH: Canada in Afghanistan 

Pte. Robert Costall was killed in a battle which took place in Helmand province about 110 kilometres northwest of Kandahar, Canadian Forces Brig.-Gen. David Fraser confirmed early Wednesday. 

Fraser said Costall died "defending his fellow soldiers and we will not forget his sacrifice." 

Costall was with the 1st Battlion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based in Edmonton. 

Canadians had been repositioned to the area in response to an earlier incident in which eight Afghan army soliders were killed. 

Fraser said that around 10 p.m. local time, Taliban insurgents attacked coalition forces. 

A significant number of Taliban were killed during the battle, he said. 

The three Canadians injured were in stable condition with non-life threatening injuries, he said. 

Earlier, the Pentagon confirmed that one U.S soldier was also killed in the attack. 

A U.S. soldier and an Afghan National Army soldier were also wounded. 

The injured soldiers were taken to a coalition medical facility in Kandahar for treatment. 

12 Canadians have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002 – 11 of them soldiers and one a Canadian diplomat. 

Earlier this month, Cpl. Paul Davis of Bridgewater, N.S., and Master Cpl. Timothy Wilson of Grande Prairie, Alta., were killed when their light armoured vehicle smashed into a taxi and flipped during a routine patrol near Kandahar.


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## Whiskey_Dan

RIP Soldier. My condolences and sincere apologies go out to his friends and family.


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## Zartan




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## couchcommander

My sincere condolences to his friends and family, as well as my heartfelt thanks for their sacrifice. His service, like those before him, will not be forgotten.


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## canuck101

Rest In Peace


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## fat kid

Well we should all take time to think about what we rave about ,then sum-up smile and nod cause we are still solders.As I'm in KAF would like others to have and make a toast to all fallen .mbr.


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## Patricia13

Rob was a father and husband, and a good friend.  I will miss him, and I hope too see him again.  Hopefully the other guys are ok and make a speedy recovery


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## Kirkhill

Safe Home.


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## Kev T

My thoughts and prayers are with all the troops overseas in Afghanistan - Canadian and Allied. I wish all those injured a complete and fast recovery and my condolences to the soldiers' families and units. Good luck to the troops, you all have my support. Your efforts and sacrifices will not be forgotten.


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## The Bread Guy

Thinking, and praying, for those left behind, 

Thinking, and praying, for those healing,

Thinking, and praying, for those still in the fight.


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## The Bread Guy

Another photo...


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## Devlin

Thoughts and prayers to the families of those lost and the injured.


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## Big Foot

RIP Pte. Costall, you have served your country well. Thoughts and prayers with the family.


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## reccecrewman

Small consolation, but at least the man died on his feet, making a stand, for himself & his comrades. Born free from the blood and sacrifice of generations gone before, died free for generations to come.   to you Patricia, my thoughts and prayers to your family and friends. RIP


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## Franko

Thoughts and prayers to his family....

RIP


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## ark

RIP soldier.


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## camochick

My thoughts and prayers go out to the fallen and the injured and their families.


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## CdnArtyWife

I, too,   the fallen and send condolences to all the friends and family.

May a swift and full recovery come to those who are injured. Best wishes and prayers to the family and friends of all who are deployed.

Come home safe.


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## QV

Pro Patria bro


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## GAP

my condolences to the friends and family. While proud of him, it hurts no less where and how he died.


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## Danjanou

RIP my brother, 

My condolences and prayers to the family and hopes for a speedy recovery and safe return to those wounded.


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## The Gues-|-




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## Bobbyoreo

RIP to both troops. You've served your Countries well. 
Condolences and prayers to the family and friends.
I pray for a speedy recovery for the wounded.


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## tomahawk6

My condolences to the family of Pvt Costall.


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## vonGarvin

What a special day.  It's so beautiful out, yet here we are, sitting peacefully by our monitors, and this poor lad's family....man.  Words escape me.  As Morgan Freeman's character said in that movie "They went down standing up" (or words to that effect).  "No greater love hath a man who would lay down his life for his brother".  And brothers they are.  And sisters.  The only good news, if any, is that "they" have about 30 or so fewer today than yesterday.

To the fallen, we salute you.  To those of us who remain behind, remember these words:
"Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep..."


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## ArmyRick

Robert Costall, RIP brother. You gave everything you could for this country. To a fellow patrica,


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## military granny

RIP to both soldiers  , my condolences to the families.And may the wounded troops get well soon


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## Northern Touch

Godspeed.   

My condolences to the family.


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## twistidnick

My condolences we will get them back.


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## Nfld Sapper

From: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1886


News Release
Four Canadian and three coalition forces casualties following attack northwest of Kandahar
CEFCOM NR–06.007 - March 29, 2006

OTTAWA – One Canadian soldier was killed, and three others injured when insurgents attacked them with mortars, rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire in northern Helmand province, approximately 110 km northwest of Kandahar. 

One other coalition soldier was also killed. Wounded in the same incident were another coalition soldier, and a soldier from the Afghan National Army. Initial reports indicate that coalition forces killed an unconfirmed number of insurgents in this action. The incident occurred at approximately 2:45 a.m. local time (5:15 p.m. March 28, EST).

Private Robert Costall, born in Thunder Bay, Ontario was killed in the attack. 

The identities of the injured soldiers are being withheld, as they are expected to return to duty.

All of the soldiers were part of the Canadian Battle Group based on the 1st Battalion Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry (1 PPCLI) stationed in Edmonton.

Immediately after the incident, a U.S. Army Blackhawk helicopter from Kandahar Airfield flew the casualties from the site of the attack to the coalition hospital at Kandahar Airfield.

Canada’s mission in Afghanistan is part of our contribution to the international campaign to help bring stability and security to the people of Afghanistan. The overarching goal is to help the Afghan people achieve peace by preventing their nation from relapsing into a failed state that gives terrorist and terrorist organizations a safe haven. 

There are significant risks involved in these operations, but Canadian Forces members are among the best trained, and most experienced soldiers in the world. They are well led, well equipped, and fully prepared for the mission in Afghanistan.


RIP


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## scoutfinch

My most sincere condolences to the family, friends and colleages of Private Costall.  Rest in Peace.

***

In Flanders Fields, the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields. 

***


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## LIKELY

Just finished watching the Ramp Ceremony on CBC for Pte. Costall. very painful I assure you.
My prayers go out to his family and to all Patricais on this sad occasion. This young soldier gave his life for his country and protecting his mates, and should always be remembered as such. Rest in peace Costall...you've served your time in Hell!  
God bless


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## TangoTwoBravo

My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

God bless,

Iain


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## karl28

My thoughts and prayers are with his family.  Rest in peace


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## chris_502

"And so he marched to the gates of Heaven and announced to St Peter.  'One more Canadian Reporting Sir.' St Peter smiled and welcomed him. 'Stand easy son. Your home now."    Your sacrifices will not be forgotten.


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## Cloud Cover

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the fallen. Rest in peace.


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## wookie11

Rest In Peace Pte. Costall


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## muffin

Condolences to all who knew him -

RIP Pte

muffin


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## AmmoTech90

RIP Pte Robert Costall and the US soldier.

Speedy recovery to the wounded.

Condolences to friends and families.

D


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## Glorified Ape

My respects to the fallen and condolences to their families.


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## monika

Sincerest condolences.


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## Sh0rtbUs

vonGarvin said:
			
		

> What a special day.  It's so beautiful out, yet here we are, sitting peacefully by our monitors, and this poor lad's family....man.  Words escape me.  As Morgan Freeman's character said in that movie "They went down standing up" (or words to that effect).  "No greater love hath a man who would lay down his life for his brother".  And brothers they are.  And sisters.  The only good news, if any, is that "they" have about 30 or so fewer today than yesterday.



Amen to that.


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## NL_engineer

RIP


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## medicineman

RIP boys. 

MM


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## m410

> Pte. Robert Costall was not in Afghanistan to sacrifice his life - he was there to serve his country by accomplishing the missions set before him. To report on only his loss while remaining silent on the achievement (or the failure - after all, we are not told) of his unit in defending their base, is not only journalistic malpractice, it is a disservice to every member of the Canadian Forces.


...


> It's astonishing that the same country that still celebrates the envelope pushing performances (and near-death experiences) of the "Crazy Canucks" downhill ski team, hasn't figured out that covering a war in the context of body counts is the sports journalism equivalent of limiting Olympic coverage to the daily injury reports of the various countries in competition.


- Kate McMillan, Small Dead Animals

We should pay due attention to casualties, but _how about some details about the fight?_

"Objective secure.  AMMOCAS to follow."


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## gk404

Rest in Peace to the fallen, and condolences to the friends and family.
Speedy recovery to the injured.


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## RangerRay

My condolences to Pte. Costall's family.    

Speedy recovery to those injured.


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## COBRA-6

R.I.P. brother.


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## gnplummer421

My condolences go to the young family of Pte. Costall, I will pray for you.


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## SweetNavyJustice

My condolences.  RIP

Also, best wishes for a speedy recovery to the others who were injured.


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## gnplummer421

Some facts I googled of the area where he fought;

Helmand Province - one of 34 Provinces which make up Afghanistan.

Population: 1,011,600

Capital: Lashkar gah  (America built a hydroelectric dam in the 1960's and irrigated parts of the City - abandoned in 1978 when the Communists took over).

Religion: Mainly Pashtun or Ethnic Afghan (some Iranian background) live by a pre-Islamic indigenous code of honor and culture.

Mostly desert type terrain, borders Pakistan, Helmand River runs through it.

Currently USAID is contributing a Counter Narcotics Initiative in the Province, and the 16th Air Assault Brigade are the main force of the British contingent who are supposed to relieve some US troops there.

Export: Opium 

Province is said to have several Insurgent bases near the Pakistani border.


Gnplummer


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## westernarmymember

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured and prayers for fallen. May his family find peace. Stand easy solder .


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## The Bread Guy

A bit more detail of the punch-up, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 21, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Canadian soldier died defending outpost
Mar. 29, 2006. 08:13 PM
MURRAY BREWSTER
CANADIAN PRESS

"What was most unusual was the ferocity of the Taliban's frontal assault on the remote desert outpost where Canadian troops fought possibly their deadliest battle in more than 30 years.

It was not a shadowy ambush with a suicide attacker or a remote-controlled bomb, but a brazen assault with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and blazing guns on the newly established military outpost in the Sangin district of Helmand province, 110 kilometres from Kandahar City.

Pte. Robert Costall, 22, of Thunder Bay, Ont., died Wednesday in fighting off the attack, becoming the first Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan in the kind of head-to-head combat that is more the forte of western armies than Taliban militants, who have often used guerrilla tactics.

(...)

In Wednesday's pitched battle, coalition forces killed 12 militants in the initial attack, while another 20 insurgents were killed as they fled, a U.S. military statement said.

The Taliban are considered an inferior fighting force by western commanders, said Vernon, the senior British officer in Kandahar. ``The only thing I will say: there is no doubt they are brave," said Vernon, chief of staff to Brig.-Gen. Fraser.

Late Tuesday, a quick-reaction force from Charlie Company of the Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry was called out to reinforce the desolate outpost, described as no more than a sun-baked patch of land ringed with sand berms and razor wire.

Earlier in the day, the Taliban attacked an Afghan army re-supply convoy near the base with assault rifles and roadside bombs, killing eight Afghan soldiers.

The outpost, near the tiny community of Heder Abad, had only been operating for a few weeks, as coalition troops established a presence in Helmand province, a hotbed of insurgent and illegal drug activity.

Coalition commanders unleashed a torrent of air strikes, using British Harrier fighter bombers, U.S. Apache helicopter gunships and B-52 bombers. Despite repeated attempts by insurgents to storm the base, coalition defenders hung on, military officials said.

Unconfirmed local media reports suggested civilians were injured and local homes damaged during the air strikes, but Vernon dismissed the claim, saying the only building destroyed was a compound where insurgents had been seen taking cover.

"This was not in an urban area; this forward operating base was almost in the middle of nowhere," he said."

(...)


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## Cliff

My condolences to the family and friends of this young and courageous warrior = RIP.


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## from darkness lite

RIP Pte. Robert Costall

Thoughts and prayers to the family.


FDL


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## Wookilar

Rest now brother, away from the dust and sand.


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## FGH_Recce_DJ

Sleep well brother, your fire pickett is over.   :'(


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## gotrainer

Condolences to Pte. Costall and his wife and family.
From a citizen who appreciates all that the Canadian Armed Forces represents, and all of the good that it accomplishes.


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## 1feral1

We must never forget that Robert was a soldier and a man that answered the call for Canada, and paid the ultimate sacrifice. My thoughts are with his family and his mates today.

Regards,

Wes


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## HollywoodHitman

My condolences to the family, friends and the Regiment.


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## MikeM

My buddy was one of the guys carrying the casket on the ramp in Kandahar, tough to see.

Thoughts with Pte. Costalls Family, he paid the ultimate sacrifice and will not be forgotten.


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## Franko

He's home......     




> *Fallen Cdn. soldier arrives at CFB Trenton*
> 
> Updated Sat. Apr. 1 2006 4:32 PM ET
> 
> CTV.ca News Staff
> 
> The body of a Canadian soldier who was killed in Afghanistan Wednesday has arrived at Canadian Forces Base Trenton.
> 
> Private Robert Costall, 22, died in a firefight with Taliban insurgents at an isolated desert outpost 110 kilometres northwest of Kandahar.
> 
> An honour guard of Canadian soldiers met the Airbus and stood at attention while eight soldiers carried the Canadian flag-draped coffin across the tarmac to a hearse.
> 
> Members of Costall's family, including his wife Chrissy and his parents Greg and Bonnie Costall, were visibly upset at the scene.
> 
> Costall's wife wept over his coffin after it had been placed in the vehicle.
> 
> Robert and Chrissy have a one-year-old son, Colin. They live in the Edmonton bedroom community of Namao.
> 
> Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor and Chief of Defence Staff General Rick Hillier also paid their respects to the soldier at the Trenton, Ont. base.
> 
> The hearse was to carry his body to Toronto for an autopsy, said CTV's Roger Smith, who was at the scene.
> 
> Costall was born in Thunder Bay, Ontario, but grew up in Sechelt and Gibson's, B.C., and served in Afghanistan as a member of the Edmonton-based 1st Battalion, Princess Patricia's Light Infantry.
> 
> Costall joined the military two years ago and had been in Afghanistan for two months when he was killed.
> 
> One U.S. soldier was also killed and three other Canadian soldiers were wounded as they attempted to fend off the ferocious Taliban attack in Helmand province in southern Afghanistan.
> 
> The soldiers were defending what is known as a forward operating base when they were attacked. The battle lasted for a number of hours.
> 
> Eight Afghan National Army soldiers were killed in an earlier Taliban attack in the area, and more than 30 Taliban insurgents are estimated to have been killed.
> 
> Since 2002, 12 Canadians have died in Afghanistan from road accidents, bombs and friendly fire from a U.S. fighter jet.
> 
> Costall's relatives reportedly take some consolation from the fact he lost his life while doing a job he loved.
> 
> "There was never a doubt in his mind that what he was going over there to do was the right thing to do," Colleen McBain, his aunt in Thunder Bay told CTV recently.
> 
> Costall is the first Canadian soldier to die in actual combat in Afghanistan.
> 
> Recently, military commanders have acknowledged the fact they are in Afghanistan to hunt down and kill the Taliban, as well as help rebuild the nation.
> 
> In recent days, the main base at Kandahar Airfield has come under attack, and insurgents have staged unsuccessful suicide bombing attempts.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

A great article from Michele Mandel in the Toronto Sun today.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Mandel_Michele/2006/04/02/1515998.html
    Final journey home for a fallen hero  
By Michele Mandel
  
TRENTON — Through her tears, she embraced her husband’s flag-draped coffin and whispered, “He’s home now. He’s home.” 
And so he is. 

Under grey clouds hanging heavy and low, the remains of Pte. Robert Costall arrived back on Canadian soil yesterday. 
Just before noon, the military Airbus carrying his body taxied to a halt on the same wind-swept tarmac where so many young men and women have departed for their tour of duty in Afghanistan — and where 11 coffins have returned in their stead. 
We are still not used to it, thank God. The repatriation of a fallen soldier still remains a national blow that strikes at our very heart. And when he is but 22, the married father of a little boy who’s just one, it aches all the more. 

But while we are not yet accustomed to these fatalities, they are no longer unique. After a dozen deaths in Afghanistan since 2002, including that of a Canadian diplomat, this is a ritual no longer unknown. 
Yet it remains as heartrending as ever. 

They were a triangle of pain: Costall’s widow, Chrissy, flanked by his father, Greg, and mother, Bonnie Jean, clung fiercely to each other at the first sight of the coffin being unloaded from the belly of the huge plane. 
It was really true then. The horrible news that he had become the first Canadian soldier in Afghanistan to be killed in combat must have still seemed so unreal until that coffin came slowly towards them, borne on the shoulders of eight grim-faced soldiers from CFB Petawawa. 

He was really gone. As the lone piper’s mournful lament glided on the wind, Costall’s widow placed her arm around her tiny mother-in-law and tried to calm her wracking sobs, as her own tears slipped slowly down her cheeks. 
Tears of loss. Tears of pride. 

“He was proud to be a soldier,” Chrissy told the Edmonton Sun before leaving to receive her husband’s remains. “He was dedicated — to me and our baby — but also to Canada. 
“I’m not angry that he’s gone, only heartbroken.” 

Born in Thunder Bay, the hockey-mad Costall moved with his family to B.C.’s Sunshine Coast when he was 10. He turned to the military, he told his family, to give his life meaning. And he had found it. While they were apprehensive about his deployment to Afghanistan, he reassured them all that he believed in his regiment, the 1st Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, and he believed in their mission. 
He died Wednesday fighting off a fierce Taliban mortar and rocket-propelled grenade assault on a remote desert military base about 110 km northwest of Kandahar. 
He had been just six weeks away from a scheduled 19-day leave home to his wife and baby Colin. 

That joyous homecoming will never be. Instead, Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor and General Rick Hillier, Commander Canadian Expeditionary Force Command, were there to comfort Costall’s wife and parents as the slain soldier made his final journey home. 
“When families watch the body coming across the tarmac, I know they’re hurting and I was hurting for them,” said base spokesman Capt. Nicole Meszaros. 
“I think we all are.” 
Capt. Robert Lauder certainly was. The chaplain felt compelled to volunteer to be at yesterday’s brief ceremony — he is going to Afghanistan himself in August. 

“This is not another peacekeeping operation. This is very different,” said Lauder, 50. 
Knowing the danger he will soon face added extra poignancy to his duties yesterday as he accompanied Lauder’s coffin to the waiting hearse that would take him to Toronto for an autopsy. 

‘I cried’ 
“When I first saw the coffin, I thought ‘That could be me. That could be somebody I know and love.’ 
“I never met him, but that’s my friend because we share the same uniform and the same goals.” 
He tried his best to comfort Costall’s family, but he knows words offer so little right now. What can he say to a young widow, just 20 years old, who now faces raising her baby alone? And what can be said to a mother and father broken by inconsolable grief? 

“I cried. We cried together,” he said later. “As the minister of defence told them, ‘It’s not right for a child to die before a parent.’ It’s wrong when that happens.” 
So while words may offer little consolation now, he gave them this vow. “I share their grief,” the padre said, “and I’ll do my best to honour his memory upon arrival in theatre.” 

A hero to his country and to his fellow soldiers, he was that and so much more to his family. 

As Costall’s casket was placed gently into the waiting black hearse, and an honour guard of fellow soldiers saluted crisply in respect, his widow could no longer bear to be so far away. 
She crossed the tarmac, her long auburn hair tossed wildly by the wind, and lay her trembling hands on her husband’s coffin. What private words of love and loss she wept we will never know, nor should we. 

All that could be seen was her relief that they were together once more. Pte. Robert Costall had served his country well — and now he was home at last.


----------



## William Webb Ellis

I remember when the deployment to Kandahar was in the news and I said to my wife that soldiers could be coming home dead from this mission.  She seemed surprised that this was a possibility.  She is not from a military family and never really keeps track of the military/foreign affairs.

We were watching the Flames/Oilers game last night and after the national anthem she turned to me and said that it would have been nice if there was a moment of silence for Pte. Costall, as he was based in Edmonton.  We also saw a sound bite on the news that the flags in Ottawa were not at half mast, as has been the case with all others coming home.  

I pray that there is not an acceptance/devaluing of Pte. Costall's and other's sacrifice.

As I type this I feel humbled/unworthy to speak on the subject, I also feel a sense of guilt for releasing all those many years ago.

My thoughts are with his famliy.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Payback coming, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 21, of the _Copyright Act_ (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409)...

Canadian reinforcements take up position at firebase where soldier died
Murray Brewster, Canadian Press, 021852 Apr 06, from 
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/news/shownews.jsp?content=w040243A
  
"KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - In a show of force meant to confront Taliban insurgents in southern Afghanistan, the Canadian army further reinforced the area around a remote outpost where two soldiers were killed last week in a vicious firefight.

Canadian Pte. Robert Costall, 22, a machine-gunner, and U.S. national guardsman Sgt. 1st Class John Stone, 52, a medic, were killed in the battle in the Sangin district of Helmand province last Wednesday.

A large contingent of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, backed by engineers, artillery and coalition air support moved into the region under a blanket of secrecy over the weekend. The outpost where the two were killed is christened FOB - forward operating base - Robinson in memory of a U.S. soldier killed in the region.

Helmand, a lawless, narcotics-infested area west of Kandahar, is a major poppy growing region and a hotbed of insurgent activity.

If the city and province of Kandahar can be considered chaotic with its suicide car bombers and roadside explosions, Helmund is best described as a cauldron, where insurgents and drug gangs roam openly.

"It's a key transit area for the Taliban," said Maj. Bill Fletcher, commander of Charlie Company.

"Their spiritual centre may be in Kandahar city, but their pocketbook is in the poppy cultivation in Helmand province." 

Dubbed Operation Ketara - Pashtu for dagger - Fletcher said the troops are facing a more determined enemy in this region.

"They're not your average Taliban," he said at a briefing prior to the deployment.

"They're a little better, but not that good. This is sort of a step above what we've faced up until today." 

Unlike Kandahar, Taliban fighters in Helmand use "co-ordinated attack tactics," Fletcher said.

Taliban ranks are also being bolstered by locals, who as seasonal poppy workers, have thrown their support behind the insurgency.

"It's going to be impossible to differentiate between a guy with a rifle protecting a poppy field, or a bad guy," he warned the troops.

The British are expected to take over full operational control of the province this summer with 3,500 troops.

One of the key objectives of the mission is to begin the process of securing the area so local Afghan authorities can plow under the poppy fields.

Although Taliban leaders deny they're involved in the illegal drug trade, they issued a written warning specifically to the British, who've already begun to arrive in the region.

Mullah Razayar Nurzai, a Taliban commander, claimed as many as 600 suicide bombers are trained and ready to take action in Helmand.

The coalition has never had a sustained presence in the area, with the exception of small units of British Royal Marine commandos, U.S. Special Forces and platoons of regular American army units. The Soviet occupation was likely the last time the region saw a major military force.

Just as the operation got underway, two Canadian soldiers were injured in a traffic accident involving their light armoured vehicle. A passing truck clipped the gun, whipping the turret around and striking the two so-called air sentries, who were evacuated to Kandahar airfield by helicopter.

Lieut. Mark MacIntyre, a Canadian military spokesman, said the injuries are not life-threatening. 

The arrival of Charlie Company bolsters an existing Canadian contingent, which was rushed into action last Tuesday after a roadside ambush killed six Afghan National Army troops on resupply convoy.

The foray into Helmand came as Canadian troops resumed the hunt for insurgents in the mountain passes north of Kandahar.

Conducting two simultaneous operations is not a stretch, said the commander of the Canadian battle group.

"Since our arrival in theatre we have not been at full operating capacity," said Col. Ian Hope in a recent media briefing.

"We have been receiving new kit and new equipment from home and that's taken time to get trained up. You will start seeing more patrols by day."

Hope's reference is to the recent purchase of Nyala armoured land rovers, a sturdy South African-made vehicle designed to withstand mine blasts. "


Also, for some background:
"Helmand Province and the Afghan Insurgency"
http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2369937


----------



## Cloud Cover

It's section 29.  

Thanks for putting the disclaimer there, though. It's something we should all do a little more often.

Whiskey.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

RIP


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060402/afghanistan_ffire_060404/20060404?hub=TopStories

If it is true hopefully we can take better measures if that's possible for tgt identification. 

Friendly fire possible in soldiers' deaths: Army
Updated Tue. Apr. 4 2006 2:09 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Canadian and U.S. military officials are reviewing whether friendly fire played a role in any deaths or injuries during a March 28 firefight with the Taliban.

Pte. Robert Costall, a machine-gunner, and a U.S. soldier -- national guardsman Sgt. 1st Class John Stone, 52, a medic -- died in that encounter. Five other soldiers were wounded, including three Canadians.

"'The initial findings justify the requirement for further investigation to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding the firefight, including whether any of the casualties resulted from friendly fire'," said CTV's Ellen Pinchuk early Tuesday, reading from Canadian Forces news release.

The incident occurred in Sangin district of Helmand province, about 110 km north of Kandahar.

Afghan National Army troops first engaged Taliban insurgents.

A quick reaction force -- 7 Platoon of Charlie Company of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

-- was dispatched by helicopter to reinforce the Afghan troops.

Pinchuk had video of the remote forward operating base, which is essentially a dusty plain, with the base's boundaries marked with concertina wire and a slight berm.

"The attack came at night from several sides by the Taliban," Pinchuk said. "It's possible that in the crossfire, somebody could have shot at one of their own."

While military aircraft, including B-52 bombers, were used during the lengthy battle, Pinchuk said an errant air strike isn't suspected.

"We're told that it could have been Canadian, U.S. or Afghan national Army fire, or it may have been enemy fire from the Taliban. We'll have to wait and see what the results of the investigation turn up," she said.

Costall's body arrived in Canada on Saturday, where his devastated wife Chrissy and Costall's parents met his coffin.

His body was taken to Toronto for a routine autopsy.

That same day in Afghanistan, Canadian troops were dispatched to the same area he died as part of Operation Ketara, a Pashtu word for dagger.

Helmand province is a hotbed of not only the Taliban, but opium growers too.

Part of the mission's purpose is to secure the area so that local Afghan authorities can plow the fields under.

With a report from CTV's Ellen Pinchuk


----------



## The Bread Guy

A bit more detail, with the usual disclaimer....

http://milnewstbay.pbwiki.com/97976

"In the Afghan badlands, troops get haunting news 
Christie Blatchford, Globe & Mail,4 Apr 06, pg. A1.

CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD FORWARD OPERATING BASE ROBINSON: AFGHANISTAN - Their heads filled with chilling new intelligence about the Taliban, hundreds of young Canadians from Charlie Company of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry are now encamped in the swirling dust of what is the most volatile part of southern Afghanistan. 

An enormous convoy, augmented by the big guns of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery and with reconnaissance and air support from the United States, moved west from Kandahar city into the badlands of Helmand province early Sunday in Operation Ketara, the Pashto word for "dagger." The soldiers were sent off after their junior officers and non-commissioned officers received a lengthy and remarkably literate operational briefing from Major Bill Fletcher, Officer Commanding for Charlie Company, which left no room for doubt that the troops were heading into great peril. 

Perhaps the most alarming information Major Fletcher had to give the troops was how very quickly this particular group of Taliban are able to activate preplanted improvised explosives devices, or IEDs, and that they are sophisticated and disciplined enough to maintain both radio silence and a fighting reserve. 

"They're not your average Taliban," Major Fletcher told the officers and NCOs in his hour-long briefing. 

"They're sort of a step above what we've faced until today." But, mirroring the confidence of his soldiers, the 34-year-old, one of a group of bright young officers hand-picked by the Canadian Forces command for the Afghanistan mission, promised that "there's going to be a lot of crap military resources in the area, the most lethal and potent of which is us," and told the troops "they're a little better, but not that good." The Taliban has already paid a hefty price for the assault last week that killed Canadian Private Rob Costall , Major Fletcher said. 

He noted that they have taken 70 casualties. 

An estimated 150 Taliban hard core remain in the area, Major Fletcher said, with their numbers likely to be "bolstered by seasonal poppy workers" and local drug lords "who are throwing their lot in with the Taliban to protect their livelihoods." But as Major Fletcher said, "It's impossible to differentiate between a guy with a gun protecting a poppy field and a bad guy, and we may not have time to figure it out until we get back." He told his officers that the Canadian troops were not to instigate an attack, but said that if "they have hostile intent, we don't give a shit who it is." The fact that remnants of the repressive Islamic fundamentalist Taliban, who ruled most of this embattled country until the U.S. invasion in the fall of 2001, still enjoy some local support illustrates the complexity of the Canadian and coalition tasks here, a battle that is both military and economic. 

In Major Fletcher's words, "The Taliban's spiritual centre may be in Kandahar city, but their pocketbook lies in the poppy cultivation in Helmand province." The 100-kilometre trip from Kandahar city took the convoy west to this dusty forward operating base, or FOB, in the Sangin River Valley, known until recently as FOB Wolf and renamed last week days after the 
death of Staff Sergeant Christopher Robinson, a 36-year-old U.S. soldier killed in action. 

Poignantly, another part of the FOB, which is nothing more than a wide-open expanse of near-desert ringed by sandbags dotted here and there by improbably lush poppy fields blossoming with pink-and-white flowers, has a new name -- Gate Costall , for Private Robert Costall , the 22-year-old Canadian soldier who was also killed here while laying down a protective firebase for his fellows in the early hours of last Wednesday morning. 

At the moment, the "gate" consists of just a break in the concertina wire at the north side of the compound, but Major Fletcher says a commemorative plaque in honour of Pte. Costall will soon be in place. 

It was in this narrow space between that concertina wire and the sandbag perimeter where Pte. Costall died in the dirt, as the so-called quick-reaction force, or QFR, composed of Canadians from 7 Platoon of Charlie Company scrambled to defend the FOB, then under sustained attack from the Taliban from the compounds and small hills just outside the wire. In the approximately 45 days since about 120 soldiers from the Afghan National Army and their American mentors first established the FOB, there has been fighting there virtually every second day. 

Among the Canadians who arrived early yesterday morning at the FOB were some of the eight pallbearers and the sergeant who carried Pte. Costall 's casket and participated in the formal "ramp ceremony" that saw his body sent off home to Canada. 

Cruelly, one of those pallbearers, 22-year-old Private Dawson Bayliss, was himself injured in a bloody accident en route to the FOB and had to be airlifted out, along with another young private, more seriously injured, who can be identified only as Daniel. The two were air sentries -- it means they stand in open rear hatches, guns at the ready -- in a light armoured vehicle, or LAV, when the cannon atop the vehicle was struck by a truck in the outskirts of Kandahar City. 

The cannon then spun about and whacked the two soldiers in the turret, sending Daniel bloodied and moaning back into the laps of his fellows in the LAV, none of them quite sure whether the convoy had been attacked. 

Pte. Bayliss has been released from hospital. Daniel remains in treatment and may yet be flown to a U.S. hospital in Germany for further care, though he too is expected to fully recover. 

Pte. Costall 's mates from 7 Platoon have returned to Kandahar Air Field, where most of the Canadians and soldiers from seven 
other coalition-force nations are stationed. 

They arrived "a little lighter than normal," Major Fletcher said somberly, "and they certainly . . . earned their keep. . . . They did a real good job." The 7 Platoon was originally brought to the FOB as reinforcements for the Afghan army, which lost eight soldiers in a combination Taliban ambush and IED strike last Tuesday. But the Canadians who arrived yesterday can expect to remain in place much longer, Major Fletcher told their commanders. 

He said their mission here is fourfold: to secure the FOB; disrupt the Taliban such that they can no longer use the river valley as their traditional transit corridor; create settled conditions for the British and Afghan forces who will soon begin eradication of the poppy fields in Helmand; and support "the kill-capture" mission of special forces in the area. 

Even as the convoy set out, information was coming in hard and fast warning of the dangers of the journey -- there was a handful of suicide bombers in Kandahar city ready to go, including one in a car, whose driver was circling the city and environs in search of the column. And that morning, the Americans at the FOB had emerged to find that just south and west of the base, roadside bombs had harmlessly exploded. 

The convoy travelled along Highway 611, which runs west to Helmand, and then up the river valley, often moving cross-country 
over rough terrain in pitch blackness to avoid the IED-laden main roads. 

For the young soldiers of the PPCLI's 1st Battalion, based in Edmonton, the dangerous mission came as a mixed blessing they readily embraced. 

As Warrant Officer Shaun Peterson, a platoon commander, said of being a Canadian soldier usually tasked with pure peacekeeping, "One of the troops said it's like being a baker, but nobody gives you any flour. Now, they get some." A young female LAV driver, rueful that she was unable to leave with the convoy because of an injured hand, told of phoning her 10-year-old nephew, whose only question is, "Have you killed anyone yet? Have you killed anyone yet? "Of course," she said, "to him, killing is just a concept." There came a long pause, and she added, soberly, "Of course, it is to me too. I've only ever killed an animal that was suffering, and that was when I was working on a farm." Globe and Mail photographer Louie Palu and I 
were on board with the PPCLI for the duration of the 23-hour trip -- made so long by the vehicle breakdowns and miscues that 
afflict such big convoys -- as were two other Canadian journalists and a forces photographer. 

In my LAV, as we set out, Sergeant Patrick Tower got the MP3 player going, Johnny Cash singing Sea of Heartbreak as the traditional sendoff tune, followed shortly thereafter by Toby Keith's The Taliban Song , his famous tune whose chorus goes like 
this: "We'll bid a fair adieu and flip the finger to the Taliban." As Sgt. Tower said, "Someone once told me that rock 'n' roll is about the weekend, country music is about Monday to Friday, and it's true." The tunes changed shortly thereafter, with the younger soldiers -- Corporal Paul Rachynski, 24, Ptes. Bayliss and Daniel, Steve Dusyk, who turns 25 today, and gunner Jeff Leitch, 23 -- persuading Sgt. Tower to switch to rock. 

But after the two air sentries were injured in the accident, the pair treated quickly by convoy medics and last seen lying pale and trembling on stretchers before a Black Hawk arrived to take them away, the mood in the LAV changed. It was as though reality had sunk in. 

Pte. Bayliss is a distant cousin of Toronto Police Constable Todd Bayliss, killed in the line of duty by a multiple deportee named Clinton Junior Gayle one hot summer's night about a decade ago. 

He was 25. 

And Daniel, well, Daniel attended Lord Lansdowne Public School, right across from my house in downtown Toronto. We had just figured that out -- that he was entering Grade 8 there the year I moved into the house and reminisced about the pizza joint that sells slices at the corner -- moments before he was struck by the cannon and came tumbling back into the LAV, his face covered in blood. 

The media got the boot from FOB Robinson shortly after we arrived, when Brigadier-General David Fraser, the top commander of operations for southern Afghanistan, received fresh intelligence that led him to assess the risks there as unacceptable. It was hard to argue. "


----------



## Trinity

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060402/afghanistan_ffire_060404

Gen. Lewis McKenzie comments


> McKenzie said people should remember that whatever the outcome of the friendly fire investigation, Canadian, U.S. and Afghan troops did repel the Taliban and caused significant enemy casualties.
> 
> _*"In my estimation, it's a combat casualty -- full stop."*_



The end.


----------



## tomahawk6

Official press release.

http://www.cfc-a.centcom.mil/News%20Release/2006/04-April/UPDATE%20Attack%20on%20base%20in%20Helmand%20Province.htm

COMBINED FORCES COMMAND – AFGHANISTAN 
COALITION PRESS INFORMATION CENTER 
KABUL, AFGHANISTAN 
APO AE 09356 
http://www.cfc-a.centcom.mil 

News Desk: 070-223-758 
Press Center: 070-276-545 
Kabul-Presscenter@cfc-a.centcom.mil 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 
April 4, 2006 
Release # 060404-03
Release in Dari



UPDATE: Attack on base in Helmand Province 



KABUL, Afghanistan -- At about 1:30 a.m. March 29, enemy forces attacked a Coalition base in the Sangin District of Helmand Province with direct and indirect fire.

The base, known as Forward Operating Base Robinson, is strategically located to support Afghan National Army efforts to extend the reach of the Afghan government and to allow Afghan and U.S. forces to defeat enemy activity by denying insurgents sanctuary, freedom of movement and the ability to reconstitute.

The base was defended by ANA, U.S. and Canadian forces.

Defending against the attack, coalition forces employed small-arms fire and close-air support. One Canadian and one U.S. Soldier were killed. Three Canadians, one U.S. service member and one Afghan National Army soldier were wounded.

After reviewing initial reports of enemy contact the Combined Forces Command – Afghanistan commander determined that an investigation was warranted.  The commander of the Coalition’s Combined Joint Task Force – 76 formed a U.S., Canadian and Afghan investigation team made up of personnel with operational and technical expertise. The result will be three separate national investigative reports. 

The investigation will determine all the facts and circumstances surrounding the incident, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from friendly fire. 

At least 12 insurgents were killed in the immediate vicinity of the operating base. Another 20 were killed after Coalition forces pursued them. In the course of their pursuit, Coalition forces destroyed two Taliban headquarters buildings and overran a Taliban compound. The Coalition forces discovered and destroyed large caches of munitions, including weapons and materials for making improvised explosive devices.


----------



## Kat Stevens

"It was in this narrow space between that concertina wire and the sandbag perimeter where Pte. Costall died in the dirt, as _*the so-called quick-reaction force, or QFR,*_ composed of Canadians from 7 Platoon of Charlie Company scrambled to defend the FOB, then under sustained attack from the Taliban from the compounds and small hills just outside the wire."

Why "so called"?  Were they not Quick?  Did they not react? Were they not in Force?  Kinda makes his demise sound like there was something lacking in the effort, doesn't it?  Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive to press lately....


----------



## Tilstonguy




----------



## gnplummer421

I agree with the "press" issue. I'm starting to get a burnt out feeling trying to absorb all the information regarding this issue. (firefight) I don't know which of the various newspaper/TV news reports/articles to believe anymore.

At least on this forum there is a common feeling and sense of direction (for the most part anyway), which provides some clarity for me.

It must have been a very tough night for everyone involved in this firefight, yet they all performed so courageously and professionally.

Gnplummer


----------



## Michael Dorosh

CFL said:
			
		

> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060402/afghanistan_ffire_060404/20060404?hub=TopStories
> 
> If it is true hopefully we can take better measures if that's possible for tgt identification.



Like doing the sensible thing and asking the enemy not to attack us in poor light conditions? "if that's possible"...

As for the comment about the moment of silence during the hockey game - call me insensitive but I don't think private soldiers short of Smokey Smith merit a national day of mourning. I mean, once you set that precedent, what happens if we get involved in a major conflict? We wouldn't have flown our flag at all from 1939 to 1945.  Generally flying flags at half staff nationwide is reserved for heads of state - not sure what the regs are.  I suspect a lot of people waived that when the four Mounties were killed at Mayerthorpe.


----------



## m410

Michael, there was an article yesterday about flag lowering:

Flags not lowered for slain soldiers

It starts as a bit of an anti-Conservative hatchet job but at the end there is some different perspective.

Personally I think all this grief mongering will kill our ability to fight.  If Korean War casualties got reported the way contemporary ones do we'd have been out of there very fast.  Reporting WW1 or WW2 casualties this way would, of course, be impossible.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

m410 said:
			
		

> Michael, there was an article yesterday about flag lowering:
> 
> Flags not lowered for slain soldiers
> 
> It starts as a bit of an anti-Conservative hatchet job but at the end there is some different perspective.
> 
> Personally I think all this grief mongering will kill our ability to fight.  If Korean War casualties got reported the way contemporary ones do we'd have been out of there very fast.  Reporting WW1 or WW2 casualties this way would, of course, be impossible.



Hmm, I read it as anti-Liberal but we all have our biases.  One salient point in the article - consistency.  I read the article thinking that it implied the Liberals were pandering to public sentiment by changing a decades old tradition.  Chadderton seems to feel Normandy vets "deserve" it more than Afghan vets, so if they didn't get it why should "we".  I think more importantly though - as you point out - we couldn't do it for Normandy vets because the bloody flag would never be raised at all. Moreover, it cheapens the whole notion. When a Prime Minister dies, that's a truly national event, (or a Lieutenant Governor in a province) and the lowering of the flag is hugely symbolic. Now we seem to do it so often, we very often have no clue who it is in honour of.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

If it can be ordered lowered for the shooting victims at the LÉcole Polytechnique de Montreal, to make a political point, it can damn well be lowered for the soldiers that are sacrificing themselves in the service of our nation.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

And I'm getting real tired and pissed off at these scum sucking journalists, from across the country, who have taken the simple statement, from a Coalition press release:

_'The investigation will determine all the facts and circumstances surrounding the incident, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from friendly fire.' _ 

and in mere hours have turned it into the number one, fear mongering, over the top, CNN drone style story of the day. "Canadian Soldier Killed by Friendly Fire!!!? Knowing full well no one will notice the question mark, denoting a rhetorical question, instead of the sensationalistic byline they intended. They're all a bunch of worthless hacks. Monkeys with typewriters.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

recceguy said:
			
		

> If it can be ordered lowered for the shooting victims at the LÉcole Polytechnique de Montreal, to make a political point, it can damn well be lowered for the soldiers that are sacrificing themselves in the service of our nation.



Why compound a mistake with a second mistake though? Don't get me wrong, those ladies deserve commemoration of some form. Just as all our soldiers, be they rollover victims of fatal GSWs. But cheapening our traditions is not the way to do it. IMO. Some might argue that PMs etc. are no longer above the common herd and we don't need to distinguish classes in our society. There is merit to that viewpoint too. I just don't agree with it.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

recceguy said:
			
		

> And I'm getting real tired and pissed off at these scum sucking journalists, from across the country, who have taken the simple statement, from a Coalition press release:
> 
> _'The investigation will determine all the facts and circumstances surrounding the incident, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from friendly fire.' _
> 
> and in mere hours have turned it into the number one, fear mongering, over the top, CNN drone style story of the day. "Canadian Soldier Killed by Friendly Fire!!!? Knowing full well no one will notice the question mark, denoting a rhetorical question, instead of the sensationalistic byline they intended. They're all a bunch of worthless hacks. Monkeys with typewriters.



And if they have inside information that this was friendly fire, do they not serve us better by suggesting it - with a question mark?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

If they had inside info, they'd be clamouring to release it for the 'I got it first' award. Defend them if you will Mike, they're just revving up the public for market share and their own selfish reasons. Making points off of dead soldiers. I would much rather wait till the facts came out and were disclosed tactfully, coldly and to the point, without all the speculation to satify shareholders. But that's just my own opinion and I don't care if any one else feels the contrary.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

recceguy said:
			
		

> If they had inside info, they'd be clamouring to release it for the 'I got it first' award. Defend them if you will Mike, they're just revving up the public for market share and their own selfish reasons. Making points off of dead soldiers. I would much rather wait till the facts came out and were disclosed tactfully, coldly and to the point, without all the speculation to satify shareholders. But that's just my own opinion and I don't care if any one else feels the contrary.



Let's be fair with me for a second, I wasn't defending anyone - I was presenting an alternative viewpoint. I was also putting myself in their shoes, under the assumption they have to work to put meat and potatoes on the table, same as you and me.

So, what's the solution?


----------



## military granny

This is my opinion and only my opinion

The journalists that are putting out reports everyday are digging for stories, no matter who they hurt or how much pain they cause to the families involved. Now the Army( and please don't get me wrong the men and women serving our country are on my mind every day as is my son in the sandbox) has learned a thing or two and will not release the names of injured soldiers. This brings me great joy knowing other families are not being pestered like we were when the boy was hurt. But for any journalist to go ask a family how they feel that their son may have been a victim of friendly fire when they haven't even buried this young man is utter cr*p. As a mother I would be more than angry, I would tear the eyes out of said journalist.


----------



## George Wallace

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Why compound a mistake with a second mistake though? Don't get me wrong, those ladies deserve commemoration of some form. Just as all our soldiers, be they rollover victims of fatal GSWs. But cheapening our traditions is not the way to do it. IMO. Some might argue that PMs etc. are no longer above the common herd and we don't need to distinguish classes in our society. There is merit to that viewpoint too. I just don't agree with it.



OK guys.  I have a solution!  I propose that we all start a petition and gather signatures and send it off to the New Government stating that "it should be Government Policy to fly the National Flag at Half-Mast 365 days of the year."  That should keep us happy and every other fringe group that may have some stake to claim.   :


----------



## The Bread Guy

Here's the rules for the half-staffing of flags....

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/occasion_e.cfm

"The half-masting of national flags is a well-established procedure whereby countries bestow an honour and *express a collective sense of sorrow*."

(...)

"When an employee of a federal department, agency or Crown corporation dies in the line of duty or by reason of the position he or she occupies within that federal department, agency or Crown corporation, the Minister responsible for that organization *may* decide to Half-mast the Flag. Half-masting in such circumstances can only be carried out on those buildings and establishments affiliated to the organization."

Hence, the half-staffing at DND establishments with Costall's death....

(...)

"In exceptional circumstances, and on the advice of the Department of Canadian Heritage and the recommendation of the Clerk of the Privy Council, the Prime Minister may approve the Half-masting of the Flag on the Peace Tower, and/or on all or some federal buildings and establishments in Canada or abroad, that is not provided for in the Rules."

Seems pretty clear - it's up to the PM to decide, or at least for Heritage Canada to advise and the Clerk of the Privy Council/PCO to recommend.  

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/berne-halfmasting/index_e.cfm

"January 15, 2006 - Death of Canadian in Afghanistan - The National Flag of Canada is to be flown at half-mast on the Peace Tower in Ottawa from now until sunset on Sunday, January 15, 2006, for Mr. Glyn Berry, an official from Foreign Affairs Canada who was killed today in Afghanistan."

Why did nobody at Heritage Canada or PCO didn't think this was worth doing, especially in a gov't where an injured solider from Afghanistan and a survivor of the HMCS Chicoutimi problems are invited to attend the Speech from the Throne?  Especially when the Peace Tower flag went 1/2 staff for a diplomat killed in Afghanistan?

As for the media, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.  They will always look for the "if it bleeds, it leads" story, but if they're not somewhere when Canadian men and women are in harm's way, there are going to be those asking, "why the hell aren't they telling the story?"  

As a former reporter myself, I like to think anyone approaching a family in mourning would be respectful.  Mind you, I've been asked by one news manager why, when referring to a man charged in the shaking death of his baby, I didn't use the term "baby killer" in the copy, so perhaps I'm still a bit naive.... :-[


----------



## George Wallace

milnewstbay

The problem does not only lie with the Public or the Government.  It can also be found in the CF.  There are instances of an Air Force type (for example purposes only) in the Base HQ of CFB Tummmytuck, Somewhere, who also feel "It is an Army matter, and we are Air Force" attitude that can be found around the CF Bases at times.  Some people of rank have seperated their jobs from those of the rest of the CF.


----------



## The Bread Guy

George W:

Would it be too bold to call such loose cannons, say, "warlords", thinking they know better than the rest of the system?  

To be entirely fair (maybe too balanced), though, it's not impossible (although not in MOST cases of such warlordism) that somene is a bit disgruntled by previous decisions from on high.  For example, I won't give too much detail about a recent situation, but how would you feel if you were in an Armoury, wondering whether to put the flag at half-staff, with no written direction - one officer on site says, "let's do it", the next level of command (some distance away) says, "no, you won't do it unless WE tell you to", and the higher bosses in Ottawa do so without sendnig out a piece of paper.

Still, you raise a good point re:  how many points in the system can see mistakes/errors in judgement happen...


----------



## Scott57

For those curious about the American soldier lost. 

http://jan_edward.blogspot.com/2006/04/dubbel-tragisch-broer-dana-stone.html



> Dana Stone bought his own ticket to Vietnam in 1966 and started working as a stringer for the Associated Press (AP). Stone, who had to be taught how to use a Nikon when he arrived in Saigon, ended up with his combat photos on the cover of Time magazine a year later. In 1968 Stone and his wife left Saigon for Europe, then returned to Vietnam in 1970.
> 
> *Dana Stone* vanished on April 6, 1970, on Route 1 in Cambodia (along with Sean Flynn, the son of the actor Errol Flynn).
> 
> *Tom Stone* was a junior in high school when his older brother Dana disappeared in Cambodia. Tom Stone joined the Army in 1971 shortly after he graduated from Woodstock High School, motivated at least in part by a desire to learn what had happened to his brother.
> 
> On March 29, 2006, Sgt 1st Class Tom Stone (still a soldier 35 years later), was killed in combat in Afghanistan.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

In CTV's story tonight they mentioned how an American pilot dropped a bomb on Canadian troops in Afghanistan "accidentally".

I thought the problem with that, was that he dropped the bomb "deliberately".... :


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

Costall killed instantly in Afghan firefight: CTV 
CTV.ca News Staff

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060404/friendly_fire_060404

Pte. Robert Costall took a direct hit to the head and was killed instantly during a firefight in Afghanistan last week, CTV News has learned from an eyewitness.

Meanwhile, military investigators are probing whether friendly fire played a role in the deaths of 22-year-old Costall, a machine gunner born in Thunder Bay, Ont., and Sgt. 1st Class John Stone, 52, a medic with the Vermont National Guard.

Five other soldiers were wounded -- including three Canadians -- and at least eight Afghan National Army soldiers died in the battle northwest of Kandahar.

Four of the five wounded soldiers have now returned to duty. 

*It's yet unclear whether possible friendly fire refers to Costall's death or to one of the other casualties.*

The suggestion that friendly fire may have played a role in the deaths was raised following a preliminary review of the battle, but senior commanders refused to say on what evidence the notion was based.

"They'd come under a fairly heavy rain of fire from what appeared to be a coordinated attack involving mortars, RPGs, which are shoulder launched grenades, machine guns and small arms fire.," said Maj. Bill Fletcher, Costall's commanding officer.

A statement released by Canada's National Defence did not reveal what prompted the friendly fire suspicions, but acknowledged military operations in Afghanistan are "complex." 

"Terrain, weather and threat levels combine to create an extremely challenging operating environment," the statement released at Kandahar Airfield read. 

"The fact the incident occurred at night, with attacks from multiple directions, just adds to the complexity." 

Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, commander of Task Force Afghanistan, said investigators had ruled out the possibility that soldiers died from fire coming from above, such as from the coalition aircraft that helped repel the Taliban attack.

"The possibility of friendly fire, I say the possibility, did not come from the air. It was not about bombs," he told reporters Tuesday.

"So we are now investigating where this possible friendly fire came from, but it was not from an aircraft of any type."

Costall and his wounded comrades were hurrying to reinforce one corner of the outpost when they came under ground fire outside the protection of the main area, said a coalition military source.

Costall's remains were flown to Vancouver on Tuesday. 



On the trip from the airport to the ferry terminal, the fallen soldier's motorcade was honoured by saluting Mounties.



His final resting place will be at his boyhood home in Gibsons, on British Columbia's Sunshine Coast. 


No confusion, commander insists

Meanwhile, a top American commander told The Canadian Press Tuesday that there was no confusion in the fatal firefight.

"I never use the word 'confused,'" said Brig.-Gen Anthony Tata when asked whether the tumult of last week's battle led to the soldiers' deaths.

"It was a tactical fight, led by the commander on the ground, that had the appropriate coalition forces to defend his base," said Tata, who is deputy joint commander for southern and eastern Afghanistan.

"The enemy attacked from multiple directions. We beat back the enemy, pursued the enemy and then killed the enemy," he said.

But retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie told CTV's Canada AM he believes friendly fire was "certainly explainable" in the context of a complex overnight battle.

"If I had to describe a more confusing situation, I probably couldn't do it," he said.

"A fight at night, out in a forward operating base, with relatively modest defence shell scrapes and holes in the ground. Fire is criss-crossing the position and unfortunately people are going to get hit."

McKenzie said people should remember that whatever the outcome of the friendly fire investigation, Canadian, U.S. and Afghan troops did repel the Taliban and caused significant enemy casualties.

"In my estimation, it's a combat casualty -- full stop."

The battle began last Tuesday in the Sangin district of Helmand province, about 110 km northwest of Kandahar. 

Taliban insurgents attacked an Afghan army resupply convoy near a remote, desolate base -- described as no more than a sun-baked patch of land ringed with sand berms and razor wire.

A quick-reaction force of Canadians was called out as reinforcements and coalition commanders unleashed a torrent of air strikes, including British Harrier fighter bombers, American Apache helicopter gunships and B-52 bombers.

After a battle fought well into Wednesday morning, coalition troops hung on to the base, reportedly killing at least 30 Taliban insurgents. 

'Unlike' friendly fire of 2002

Scott Taylor, editor of Esprit de Corps magazine, described the battle as "a very confusing situation." 

Appearing on AM, Taylor said the incident was "unlike" the friendly fire tragedy of April 2002, when four Canadian soldiers were killed after an American fighter jet mistakenly bombed their position during a training exercise near Kandahar.

"The fight was in progress when the Canadians came in. They went in there as a rapid reaction force, it was nighttime," Taylor said. 

"Unlike the April 2002 bombing, where combat was not taking place and it was a gross negligence on the part of a pilot."

Canadian, American and Afghan investigations will produce separate reports. There is no indication of how long the investigation will take, but it could take weeks or even months.

"The initial findings justify the requirement for further investigation to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding the firefight, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from friendly fire," the National Defence statement added.

A total of 11 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died in Afghanistan since 2002.

Canadian troops have further reinforced the base in Helmand, which is a lawless, narcotics-infested area west of Kandahar.

With a report from CTV's Ellen Pinchuk


----------



## vonGarvin

recceguy said:
			
		

> They're all a bunch of worthless hacks. Monkeys with typewriters.


"It was the best of times...it was the blurst of times?!?!?!?!  Stupid monkey!!!!"


----------



## Journeyman

CFL said:
			
		

> Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie:  "...*it's a combat casualty -- full stop*."



Exactly.


----------



## Wookilar

I know a BOI is standard when ever we loose someone, no matter the circumstances. I'm just wondering if releasing the fact that an "investigation" into whether it was fratricide or not does anyone any good? No problems with us finding out, anything we can do to improve how we do things to make us a more effective fighting force is kosher, but......This certainly will not do the families any good or the guys on the ground.

And come on, let's face it, "they" all ready have the rounds. It doesn't take somebody from CSI Las Vegas to figure out if they came from NATO 5.56/7.62 or from an AK-variant. News report said that it was the Afghan Army that started it.....can't find it now to quote though. I find that fact interesting. Sorry, misread. It said "After reviewing initial reports of enemy contact the Combined Forces Command – Afghanistan commander determined that an investigation was warranted." I just saw the Afghanistan commander part. My eyes/brain can't follow a sentence to the next line.

They should let our brothers rest and let those still on the ground get on with the job at hand instead of having this hang over them. I also agree with Lew. (and Journeyman, of course).


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Wookilar said:
			
		

> I know a BOI is standard when ever we loose someone, no matter the circumstances. I'm just wondering if releasing the fact that an "investigation" into whether it was fratricide or not does anyone any good? No problems with us finding out, anything we can do to improve how we do things to make us a more effective fighting force is kosher, but......This certainly will not do the families any good or the guys on the ground.
> 
> And come on, let's face it, "they" all ready have the rounds. It doesn't take somebody from CSI Las Vegas to figure out if they came from NATO 5.56/7.62 or from an AK-variant. News report said that it was the Afghan Army that started it.....can't find it now to quote though. I find that fact interesting.
> 
> They should let our brothers rest and let those still on the ground get on with the job at hand instead of having this hang over them. I also agree with Lew. (and Journeyman, of course).



So if this was a case of guys running around willy nilly shooting into each other's positions, etc., you don't think that's something that needs to be examined and rectified? Would you want to go out tomorrow with the same bunch of guys with this "hanging over them"?

Obviously this kind of thing will be unavoidable in some circumstances; if that's the case here, sum up and move on, but its not to any of us to suggest whether it is or isn't. Let the guys over there do their job, including fixing their own mistakes if any have been made. And yes, I think it does merit wide communication if it will increase confidence among the troops that the risk of similar instances reoccuring will be minimized. I suspect those guys have enough to worry about without adding fear of a bullet to the back of the head to the list...


----------



## militarygal

My thoughts are with the family!


----------



## vonGarvin

militarygal said:
			
		

> My thoughts are with the family!


As are mine.


----------



## Wookilar

Don't get me wrong, it should be found out. Just like I said "anything we can do to improve how we do things to make us a more effective fighting force is kosher." That is what a BOI is for. It was already stood up and running. What I don't like is an investigation, done by people that were not on the ground, and, once it is done will not be on the ground. Unfortunately, it will be just like the investigators that took 3 weeks to decide if one of our guys followed his ROE's in firing rounds defending himself and his Pl. They weren't there when it happened, and they weren't there when they finalized their report. They filed it from Canada. SOP for "investigations."

Making the investigation public will put it into the realm of media circus. We've seen it happen before, it will happen again. A lot of pain and suffering for the friends and families involved. The Canadian Press has already contacted Rob's Mom for a comment!!!! He just got home, for f****-sakes!

And just to set a few things straight, those are my guys, my battalion over there. Don't let my current profile fool you too much. I'd step off with them anyday.


----------



## pbi

Wookilar: the days of hiding this kind of stuff are over. We had to learn the very painful and difficult way, over several years, that the embarassment and pain of telling the truth (i.e: " we are doing an investigation because we have reasonable grounds, etc") is way better than trying to hide anything. We all know that in today's military, the lifespan of a "secret" is usually measured in days if not hours, and the risk would be great that some distorted, partially correct (or wholly wrong) version would slip into the hands of the media, putting us back on the defensive again. So far, the CF is "striking first" on just about everything. 

Is there still a feeding frenzy by some media? Yes,  but that's normal. IMHO it is nothing compared to what we would face if the media had dug this up against the will of the CF. I believe that this will hurt, but we will tough it out in the end.

Cheers


----------



## Wookilar

pbi, you are right, of course. Still a little sensitive about this (ninerdomestic is now previewing any and all potential rants).

I guess what really bothers me (aside from some of the media types that have no respect. Some do, too many do not) is the way it is being handled by our people. I read another report on CBC.ca where one of the investigators (a Maj) was quoted:

Friendly fire probe heats up
Last Updated Sat, 08 Apr 2006 18:51:09 EDT 
CBC News

"But              said investigators were "nowhere near determining" whether they were dealing with a criminal act, an act of negligence, or a horrible accident." 

Doesn't say combat in there anywhere. If that is the stance the NIS is taking (and I realize that it may have been taken out of context), well,......... it just makes it....harder to take, I guess. We all know friendly fire happens in battle. It should always remain unacceptable and we should strive to make it disappear, but it is a reality of current war fighting (especially close-quarters at night). To even suggest that it was a "criminal act" or "an act of negligence" just doesn't seem right. (I have more to add, but I am being told "no")


----------



## 1feral1

Wookilar said:
			
		

> And come on, let's face it, "they" all ready have the rounds. It doesn't take somebody from CSI Las Vegas to figure out if they came from NATO 5.56/7.62 or from an AK-variant.



I think we should all shut our pie holes about the 'what ifs' and so on, as this man, was only laid to rest a few days ago.

As for CSI crap etc (its a battlefield, not a safeway parking lot), are you telling us that the bad guys are NOT using 5.45 x39mm along with anything else, yes including the generic 7.62mm M43 cartridge, either way a head wound is a nasty thing, and from a high powered rifle fired possibly through a kevlar helmet, well, thats like seeing a shotgun blast on a outdoor suicide, and trying to figure out if it was 12ga or 20ga.

Trying to figure out 5.56 from 5.45 and 7.62NATO from 7.62M43 is like trying to pick out fly shyte from pepper.

At the end of the day this bloke had more guts than you or I and was killed on the battlefield.  I think it in very bad taste trying to discect what happened as armchair CSIs. We were not there for the aftermath or the trauma his mates are experiencing still.

Rest in peace Digger, your job is nobally done!



Regards,

Wes


----------



## military granny

Thank you Mr. Allan
I personally am damn tired of the media and others trying to dig for answers. My boy and a lot of others I know are over there and as I stated before this young man died so others could have peace. Now whether is was Taliban or one of ours is cross fire, those guys were in a shit storm in the dark, he fought hard and bravely and is a hero in our( military families) eyes. Let him and his poor family restin peace.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Something constructive from the media for a change, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409)

http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=15&cat=23&id=625182&more=

Soldier's aunt plans for baby's future 
By Darshan LINDSAY, Kamloops This Week, 9 Apr 06

''Collin Costall was a Valentine's Day gift for parents Robert and Chrissy Costall, born Feb. 14, 2005.  Now, the boy is without his father, a young Canadian soldier killed during a Taliban attack in Afghanistan on March 28 - and a relative in Kamloops is making sure the baby has what he needs for a better future.

Patti Montpetit, aunt to Robert Costall, has established a trust fund in Collin's name.  She said the baby is the glue keeping the family together during this difficult time.

"When you're feeling sad, there's nothing like holding a sweet baby to pick up your spirits. He's a very cheerful baby. He looks just like his dad," said Montpetit.

(...)

Since establishing the trust fund more than a week ago, $1,000 has already been raised.  She said the money will go toward Collin's future, "to give him a leg up for things he'll need that his father won't be able to help him with" - like funds for college.

*For anyone wishing to contribute, a cheque made out to Collin Costall can be mailed to Patti Montpetit, 251 Tranquille Rd., Kamloops, B.C., V2B 3G2. The cheque will be placed in a trust fund at Edward Jones Investment.

Donations can also be made through Interior Savings Credit Union account number 8285025. *''


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

As sad as this is I think it acts as a reminder (to myself) at the very least to max out on life insurance and disability prior to going and possibly even before that.


----------



## George Wallace

CFL said:
			
		

> As sad as this is I think it acts as a reminder (to myself) at the very least to max out on life insurance and disability prior to going and possibly even before that.



Do you know any Insurance Companies besides SISIP, that provide you the Insurance Coverage you want, and do not have a WAR CLAUSE?  I know the Insurance Companies will love to have your business, but they won't pay out if you are maimed or killed in a War Zone, Military Incursion or any violent act of a similar nature.


----------



## Journeyman

CFL said:
			
		

> As sad as this is I think it acts as a reminder (to myself) at the very least to *max out on life insurance and disability * prior to going and possibly even before that.



I think it's a better reminder to _max out on life_ - period. We all die. Make the most of your time here!


----------



## MikeM

George, had a SISIP brief last week, and your question was asked, there is no insurance companies with a war clause besides SISIP.. at least thats the direction we were given.


----------



## George Wallace

MikeM

I think you got that backwards.  Most Companies have a clause the voids your insurance, if you are involved in an Act of War, an Act of Terrorism, or a similar Act of violence.  On the other hand, SISIP will cover you as a CF Member under those conditions.  That is why if you have any Insurance other than SISIP, check the fine print for what it has to say in its' "War Clause" and see if they can void your Insurance due to any acts of violence, in or around a War Zone, Terrorist Attack, or similar Activity.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

George PM inbound.


----------



## monika

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think you got that backwards.  Most Companies have a clause the voids your insurance, if you are involved in an Act of War, an Act of Terrorism, or a similar Act of violence.



When you read that fine print you will see the added phrase "declared or otherwise" or words to that effect. I used to work for an insurance company and believe me, if we can find a way to avoid paying, we will.


----------



## medicineman

TMM said:
			
		

> When you read that fine print you will see the added phrase "declared or otherwise" or words to that effect. I used to work for an insurance company and believe me, if we can find a way to avoid paying, we will.



I heard and seen that about insurance companies - reminds me of DVA almost.  :

MM


----------



## KevinB

There are a bunch of companies that will cover people in war zones...


Even companies that provide active shooter contributions to OEF/OIF have insurance for their personnel


----------



## 1feral1

I still have my SISIP CAR, and I should enquire if it covers me, whilst serving as a dual citizen in another country's army, whilst in a theatre of operations. Bloody hell, I hope it does.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## Kilo_302

Christie Blatchford had an article on the cover of the Globe, I believe on Friday. Anyways, in the article she went into extremely graphic detail about Pte. Costall's wounds. The article basically said that the signs were pointing to a friendly fire incident. I think it was irresponsible for two reasons. First, let the military investigate and release its findings first. Second, and more importantly, I think it was highly inappropriate to print in a national newspaper the extent of the soldier's wounds. I'm pretty sure we can all imagine what they would be like, without it being on the front page of the Globe. I hope his family didnt have to see that.


----------



## medicineman

The problem is they make money off of inappropriateness and at other people's expense.  Ironic considering we're paid to defend that right of their's to be complete (add your own expletive)heads.

MM


----------



## MikeM

George, seen, should have re-worded that, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## KevinB

edit.


----------



## pbi

Before we condemn Christie Blatchford too much, I suggest we read her most recent piece in the Globe, in which she responds to Martin's accusation that embedded reporters have "switched sides". She offers a very spirited defense of  the embedded relationship, but more importanly she goes to bat, big time, for Canadian soldiers. She even states words to the effect of : "I would prefer an army corps to the press corps any time".

I think that, based on all of her reportage from Afgh, there is far more good about her than there is bad.

Cheers


----------



## Kirkhill

I agree whole-heartedly with pbi.

Christie Blatchford believes in you and supports you and is doing you a lot of good.

While reporting details can cause distress it is also what makes her stories so powerful.  I would ask you to look back at some of her other work on non-Army pieces, where she covers crime (often horrendous) and ask yourselves if the same stories can be told as effectively without the details.  She is unfailingly compassionate towards the victims and their families and I don't hesitate to suggest that she considers you lot members of Costall's "family".

"A Fan".

Cheers.


----------



## couchcommander

I've found Blachford's reporting to be informative and captivating. Though she may have been disrepectful to the dead with the peace regarding Costall, I haven't found it to be the norm. In any event, it served to highlight the fact that there is no glory in war.


----------



## vonGarvin

Agreed, Couchcommander.  As someone once said, there is no such thing as "bad" press (Somalia notwithstanding).  Now, I do realise that the media are there to tell ($ell) a story, she wasn't inflammatory or derogatory.  Heck, these reporters have seen their fair share of traumatic injuries on the streets and stuff, and probably have seen stuff that nobody reading this thread has either.  There's an event, they make an observation and then type it up and sell it to us.  

But when all is said and done, regardless of what was written, I would have to agree with you.  As others have said, she's reported other horrendous events, and being a story teller, she tries to paint a picture for the reader.


----------



## Journeyman

vonGarvin said:
			
		

> Heck, these reporters have seen their fair share of traumatic ...stuff that nobody reading this thread has either.



Like I said in another thread,1 she spent a night drinking at Sassy's with the troops from the Airborne Regiment as we were being disbanded   





-------------------
1 http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23216/post-365793.html#msg365793


----------



## vonGarvin

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Like I said in another thread,1 she spent a night drinking at Sassy's with the troops from the Airborne Regiment as we were being disbanded


Now THAT'S trauma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HDE

Hi Guys

   I've read Christie's columns for years and she is the real deal.  Apparently the flavour of the day is to be "balanced", ie,  you get a quote from a Canadian soldier, then you quote the Taliban so as to offer a balanced view of the issue.  Right!  I'd love to see one of our writers ask a Taliban to offer his views on the value of women in his world.  I often wonder how many of our "progressives" would be willing to exist in the world they impose on others.  Editorial comment:  What does being a "progressive" actually mean?  I liken it to being in favour of "nice".

HDE


----------



## big bad john

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=d01ecd8f-6cf4-4320-a8b4-4692fec5e5fc
I thought that this was note worthy.


Tuesday, May 09, 2006


A trust fund has been set up for toddler Collin Costall whose father Private Robert Costall was killed at the end of March in a firefight against the Talbian in Afghanistan. A native of Nanaimo, B.C., Pte. Costall, 22, pictured, also leaves behind wife, Chrissy. "He was very proud to be Canadian, he believed in what Canadians stand for and he believed in the Canadian military," Brenda Morris, Pte. Costall's aunt, wrote in an e-mail. Those wishing to contribute may do so by mailing a cheque, made out to Collin Costall, to Mrs. Patti Montpetit, 251 Tranquille Rd., Kamloops, B.C., V2B 3G2. There is also an account at Interior Savings, Tranquille Branch, in Kamloops, account #8285025.

© National Post 2006


----------



## ArmyRick

Thanks BBJ for pointing that out. You are a marine of honour and integrity.


----------



## MarkOttawa

HDE: It's not the flavour of the day.  It's what they teach in journalism school.  Assessment  by the journalist of the views solicited constitutes bias.  Except that bias is clear in the choice of  the views solicited in the first place, and the in manner in which those views are reported.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## big bad john

In reference to the above mentioned trust fund details are at the following URL:  http://www.ppcli.com/files/costall%20tf.pdf  on the official PPCLI web site.  *PLEASE BE GENEROUS*  Thank you!


----------



## big bad john

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2009561.php

August 08, 2006

Canadians probe possible friendly fire death

By Murray Brewster


HALIFAX (Canadian Press) — A closed-door investigation into the possible friendly fire death of a Canadian soldier in Afghanistan has concluded, but the board of inquiry’s final report won’t be released until it is vetted by U.S. and Afghan military officials.

The board investigated the death of Pvt. Robert Costall, who was killed last spring during a fierce firefight between coalition forces and insurgents at Sangin, west of Kandahar.

U.S. special operations forces, National Guard trainers and Afghan troops also took part in the battle.

  
The inquiry’s terms of reference, obtained by The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act, order Brig.-Gen. Chris Davis, the board president, to “determine what information, including any that has been received from coalition partners, is releasable under Canadian law.”

The April 13 document also confirms testimony from the inquiry has been designated as secret, and U.S. and Afghan officials have a veto over the release of what they consider “classified” information.

“Prior to the release to the public of a suitably severed report of the (board of inquiry) proceedings, an opportunity will be given to American and Afghan authorities to make known their perspective in respect of the proposed release of information,” the document says.

An inquiry spokesman said Canadians can rest assured the investigation will determine what happened, but some classified information will be withheld.

“The access to information and the privacy acts will guideline what can be released,” said Cmdr. Mike Consadine, a Halifax-based spokesman for the inquiry. “How that will manifest itself in the report, I wouldn’t even want to hazard a guess.”

Consadine said the report could be released by the fall.

Five days after assembling the board, Lt. Gen. J.C. Michel Gauthier, the commander of the Canadian Expeditionary Force, wrote to the inquiry president to “sensitize” the board “in order to ensure that there is complete understanding and collaboration” between the American and Canadian militaries.

Although coalition commanders have been careful not to point fingers at either U.S. or Afghan forces over the possibility that Costall was killed by friendly fire, Gauthier’s supplementary letter cautions the board to ensure its “investigation activities do not compromise any ongoing criminal investigations being conducted by American authorities.”

There was no such caution or clarification issued in relation to the Afghan National Army.

American soldiers, who might be the subject of “criminal investigation,” were not to be interviewed by the board without the approval U.S. law enforcement authorities, Gauthier’s letter says.

The possibility that Costall, a 22-year-old machine gunner, died as a result of friendly fire was raised by his wounded buddies when the multinational brigade commander, Canadian Brig. Gen. David Fraser, visited them in hospital.

The troops told Fraser they had been hit by fire from their own side as they rushed to take up position in one corner of the arid, hilltop base overlooking the village of Sangin.

Costall was part of a quick-reaction force that was rushed to the outpost, which was in danger of being overrun by insurgents and militias belonging to local drug lords.

Unlike other boards of inquiry — including the ones looking into the fatal fire aboard the Canadian navy submarine Chicoutimi and the recent crash of a Cormorant helicopter off Nova Scotia — the military refused to automatically disclose the terms of reference in this case.

The documents and followup letter were obtained using access to information laws.

A U.S. Army liaison officer assigned to the Canadian board was given the job of scheduling interviews with American soldiers involved in the battle. In addition, the officer was in charge of obtaining classified U.S. documents for the board to view and had a say in what members of the public — namely the Costall family — could be present for testimony.

The clash at Sangin also claimed the life of U.S. National Guard medic Sgt. 1st-Class John Stone, 52. Separate investigations by both the U.S. and Afghan militaries into the March 28-29 battle are underway.


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## silentbutdeadly

its good that they finally started this! i was at that FOB a short time after and heard the stories of the attack.


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