# American Medal Fads....



## Infanteer (13 Feb 2004)

I whole heartedly agree, thank god for the Marine Corps....

Too Many Medals 

I‘m really glad to see that this isn‘t so much of a case in Canada.  I feel the US Army and Air Force have managed to totally cheapen the value of a valourous medal.

Maj. Baker, any comments to add?


----------



## D-n-A (13 Feb 2004)

Yea, I agree with it, this was brought up a lot(cheapining of medals) when Jessica Lynch was awarded the bronze star(for some unkown reason..)

On the news, I see soldiers that have served in Iraq for a few months, an they have more medals than my father, who fought in Vietnam for 2 years.

It seems like some of the medals are awarded for PR/Media reasons, why else would Lynch have gotten a Bronze Star..


----------



## alexk (17 Feb 2004)

http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Humour/New_Service_Ribbons.gif 


that basicaly sums it up the last one


----------



## John Nayduk (18 Feb 2004)

Here a story for you.

I went to a U.S.M.C. birthday dinner in '93 where I was talking to a young Marine.  He had three medals on his dress blues.  I had to ask him what they were for.  He had the National Defence medals for the Gulf War.  He looked a little young so I asked if he was there.  He replied that he had not gone to the Gulf but that his Regiment had so he got the N.D.M.  Ok, I asked about the second medal on his chest.  He replied that it was the Southwest Asia Campaign Medal.  Yup, two medals for a war he didn't go to.  The third was the Efficiency Medal earned for finishing in the top third of his basic training course.  That's how he got his blues and the promotion to P.F.C.


----------



## kaspacanada (18 Feb 2004)

Do you think that the US military has a good tradition; in giving out medals for smaller achievments.  I understand that it‘s distressing to start giving out important medals like they were candy, but in the CF, many of our members have only a handful of them.  I‘ve heard arguements on both sides, but what do you think? 

I think small medal awards for some things may be good for moral, but I also don‘t think they should be simply given away for menial things.  What would you think of a medal for completing infantry or armoured training? 

I have also heard, and also agree with the idea that the rarity or low numnbers of CDN medals also serves to highlight the importance of the medal.  It makes members more ‘distinguished‘
and does not allow for medals to become just an ordinary part of the uniform.  This I tend to like more than the ‘morale‘ medals.

Do you think the CF is in need of this kind of ‘morale‘?


----------



## CL84 (18 Feb 2004)

I think we need to up our medal system. I think the states do have wayyy too many awards and medals for stupid stuff too. Like when you go to basic, you get a medal after you are done your m16 course..That‘s pretty dumb. I think we should have some sort of medal that shows what we have done and achieved. Like said before, you finish your whole basic training...you get a medal. Or something to put on your dress uniform or SOMETHING because that isn‘t easy. You shouldn‘t get a bmq, sq and BIQ medal..just one for all three. I still think that the way it is now, is good. Because when you do see a Canadian Soldier with medals, you know for a fact he earned it outright. People in the states...sure they have morale boosts..but I wonder if they do or not, because everyone has them? I think its too much in the states. But too little in Canada. I think I just confused myself..I‘ll stop talking...

Peace


----------



## John Nayduk (18 Feb 2004)

I for one like the way things are in Canada.  You get a "I‘ve been there" medal for the tours.  Guys who get the meritorious and bravery awards really earn them.


----------



## Infanteer (18 Feb 2004)

I love how guys who aren‘t in the Forces feel the need to dictate policy.  

I got two medals for one tour.  I already have one more than necessary.

The system is fine, although I am not a fan of the traditional gimmes like the 125 and the Golden Jubilee.



> CL84....the weapons qualification "BADGE" is not a medal  There are other armies in the world that authorize their soldiers to wear marksmanship "Badges" on their uniforms, the first one that comes to mind is the Schuetzenschnur from the Federal Republic of Germany. An HONEST mistake on your part.


Our Army does this as well.  The Marksmanship badge (Crossed Rifles and a Crown) is worn on the bottom of the left sleeve of your dress uniform.


----------



## CL84 (18 Feb 2004)

Oh I‘m very sorry I haven‘t memorized all the ‘badges‘ and medal systems. lol. I just love how guys that are in the forces refuse to let people make mistakes.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (18 Feb 2004)

Well CL don‘t spout off stuff you know nothing about and then no one from the Forces would feel the need to correct you.


----------



## jrhume (18 Feb 2004)

As the Major points out, these things run in cycles.  I served from 1965 to 1968, including a year in Vietnam.  I‘m working from memory here, but I think my awards were as follows:

Expert Rifleman badge - M14

National Service Medal - awarded to all upon completion of a certain period of active duty - six months or a year, I can‘t remember for sure.  Some believed it was for serving six months without contracting a social disease, but I‘m fairly certain that isn‘t true.    

Good Conduct Medal - awarded to all who manage not to run afoul of the military justice system.

Vietnam Service Medal - the basic ‘I was there‘ medal.  Similar medals have been awarded for service in combat zones for a long time.  

Vietnam Campaign Medal - with two clusters.  In the Army this medal shows your service in designated campaigns.  In my case it was pre-Tet and post-Tet.  Campaign medals date back at least to WW2 and probably beyond.  

That‘s it.  Oh, and if I‘d stayed in the Army I could have worn either a MACV patch or 1st Aviation Brigade patch on my right shoulder for the balance of my career.  Denotes the unit you were in during your service in a combat zone.  I think this is still done.

I believe the awarding of medals by the gross started with the Air Corps and continued in the Air Force and Army, especially where Air Medals and Bronze Stars are concerned.  Grenada marked one of the worst cases of medalitis.  I think things have been improving -- but Major Baker will be more conversant of that than I am.

Jim


----------



## alexk (4 Mar 2004)

When i was at the legion on rememberance day I was talking to a 1 Can Para Veteral he had all the war medals from WW2 and i noticed he had a silver star and a bronze star. they were at the farthest to the left end. It was weird because those a Bravery medals shouldnt they go to the right or is it because they a forign.


----------



## Gibson (4 Mar 2004)

foreign medals go on the right (your left if your wearing them), after Canadian decorations


----------



## Yes Man (4 Mar 2004)

I always find this a very touchy subject.  I think the main problem is that most medals awarded today are compared to historical events where others have been awarded them.  The problem with this is as we advance in the science of warfare the role of a soldier changes.  I mean just look at battle fought over the last 150 years and see how much more â Å“braveryâ ? it took. It's hard to compare flying a helicopter into battle, picking off enemy soldiers from miles away to holding a line formation with your musket knowing that over 30% of you are going to be killed or come back missing limbs. But they are both very important, and take the same amount of skill to accomplish.  Maybe the solution to this would be creating a new set of medals for modern war.

Well that's just my $.02...


----------



## 1feral1 (5 Mar 2004)

The US have a different awards/medal system than the British Commonwealth, so we can‘t bag them for that.

I have seen US awards and UN and UK medals here being worn. As for myself on the occasion we wear service dress or polys ( ANZAC Day and and occasional foram parades such as change of comd, etc, I wear my two CF ones, and as of yet no ADF medals, but when th time comes, the CF ones move to the left, and the ADF ones move to the far right, towards one‘s heart.

One can still retire with one or two medals here, as they award them similar to the UK and Canada.

However with Somalia (1993), East Timor (1999-to present), Afghanistan and Iraq (2001-present), plus other commitments, many Diggers have the double AASM, and a few medals by the time they are in for a few yrs. 


Cheers,

Wes


----------



## dotap (21 Jul 2004)

I have never served in the military...but it seems to me that the reason the air force might have started giving out medals easier is because they aren't really ever challenged by any country in the air.  Take iraq for example....saddam chose to not even send his fighters up.  If they didn't give them a little more freely, then no one would have them at all.  

Now, I'm suggesting this as a possible reason as to why they started giving them out more liberally.  From what I understand from reading this board it is getting ridiculous (i really have zero first hand knowledge).  As for the army, i have no idea.


----------



## ags281 (23 Jul 2004)

dotap said:
			
		

> If they didn't give them a little more freely, then no one would have them at all.



What's wrong with nobody having one if they didn't earn it? We're not running around handing out VC's just because Smokey's the only one left alive wearing one, nor should we be. Likewise, no SMV's have been awarded yet. Nothing wrong with that.

Badges for certain qualifications or marksmanship are all well and good, so long as they are BADGES and not ribbons/medals that are worn with bravery awards etc. If someone has a wall of ribbons on their chest, how can you tell if one of the awards actually means something? I find it cheapens the meaningful decorations because nobody can see that you have one amid the huge wall of I-know-how-to-tie-my-boots awards. If it's a routine task and expected as part of our basic job description (eg: training) then there is no justification for a medal IMO. 

The Canadian system is a pretty good one, although we should do something about the 649 approach to things like the jubilee. Either have it mean something, like the civie version, or don't give it out.

(for the record the left breast of my uniform is blank, as it should be - please do not try to give me any medals for courses I have completed)


----------

