# Heroin in Afghanistan



## philippe (28 Aug 2007)

First off, I'm not a member of the Canadian Forces, but a reporter for Maclean's magazine. I'm trying to get an idea of just how prevalent or available heroin is in Afghanistan and was hoping someone here might be able to help. Feel free to contact me off the board (my email address is in my profile) if you prefer. Thanks for any information you might have.


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## GAP (28 Aug 2007)

Are asking in relation to access by Canadian Forces personnel, the local population, or what? 

I'll stand to be corrected, but I don't really see the CF soldiers having a lot of socialogical contact with the Afghan population.


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## 00334 (28 Aug 2007)

Here is his blog if anybody wants to read it.

http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dis&eid=57&so=&ps=&sb=


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## philippe (28 Aug 2007)

What I'd like to know is what kind of impact the abundance of heroin might be having on the mission, if any at all. That is, are CF personnel in Afghanistan exposed to the local heroin trade at all, or is it totally out of sight? I'm sorry if this is a little vague; I'm just trying to see if fighting in a drug-infested region poses any particular challenges.

(And yes, that's my blog alright.)


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## R.O.S (28 Aug 2007)

Here this may help http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6965672.stm


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## G-Thompson (28 Aug 2007)

I am in no way a expert on this but i do know a little so i'll offer what i can. (Feel free to correct me anyone who thinks i am wrong)

Herion comes from opium. Opium is one of the main things to be grown/harvested/manufactured in Afghanistan (in the form of poppies initially). I believe the statistic is 90-95% of the worlds opium comes from Afghanistan. Opium in Herion form is much more a North American/ European thing then it is middle/east asia. (Not to say no-one uses herion there, but that its often used as opium not herion)

Poppy farming is often a more profitable form of business as the crop is more valuable then many others. Sometimes the farmers have established trade with the drug-lords. (They are to be noted a seperate entity then the Taliban, although they may or may not be in cahoots depending on the current local enviroment) Sometimes the farms are run by the drug-lords and sometimes the farmers are bullied into farming poppies for them. 

So yes, it is quite accessible there. However i am not sure how accessible the manufactured form (Ie opium and herion as oppose to poppies) is and if the manufacturing is done in country. I can tell you some of it and there are concerns of the local population using and supporting the drug trade.

As for CF being exposed to it, again i am not 100% sure on this but i would imagine there armed conflicts in relation to it. As part of the over-all mission is dismantling the drug-trade. If by exposed you mean users? I certainly hope not and i doubt so, and if any do use i would imagine them to be a very very tiny minority.

Just the tim-bits of knowledge i know..

-Thompson


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## Franko (28 Aug 2007)

G-Thompson said:
			
		

> I am in no way a expert on this but i do know a little so i'll offer what i can. (Feel free to correct me anyone who thinks i am wrong)



You are _not _in the CF (as per your profile)....and I think the reporter is looking for serving members and their take on the heroin trade there.

Do not make comments on what you don't know....your _conjecture _and _speculation _could lead to a mis-understanding.

I'm sure you wouldn't want that.         

*The Milnet.ca Staff*


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## Blakey (28 Aug 2007)

Here are a couple of the links that I have used for research purposes (If you don't already have them)

UNDOC Site, Main Page (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime)


2007 Afghanistan Opium Survey (PDF File)
 (Previous years surveys are available as well)

Cheers


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## philippe (28 Aug 2007)

Thanks a lot for the links. Much appreciated. 

Does anyone have any personal experiences they're willing to share? If you don't want to post them here, you're more than welcome to send them by email. (I'll happily respect any wishes to remain anonymous.)


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## George Wallace (28 Aug 2007)

Before you take any advice and 'run' with it.  Please do all of us a favour and check some of the profiles of people posting.  Some of the above posts, without reference to the profile of the person posting, can become a serious matter of concern.

I remind the people posting to remember OPSEC and PERSEC.  I also strongly discourage children from posting in topics that have serious ramifications on future events.


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## combat_medic (28 Aug 2007)

It's highly unlikely that, even if there is anyone here who has any personal experiences that they would be both willing and able to talk to you about them without some major OPSEC violations. Also, considering that you would be unable to verify the stories of people who send you an e-mail (we have enough posers and wannabes on here to choke a horse), and that none of the research would be useable or credible, being an internet medium, you would be best to do ACTUAL research, the hard way, by speaking to the appropriate people by using the appropriate chain of command.


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## honestyrules (28 Aug 2007)

I might be way wrong, but I think Phillipe is trying to find evidences of something that doesn't exist....
War is not like during the Vietnam days, where some troops were filmed "being high on drugs", reacting silly, shooting without taking cover and endangering all their buds...


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## MikeM (28 Aug 2007)

My spidey sense is tingling about the agenda of this information you seek.


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## philippe (28 Aug 2007)

delavan said:
			
		

> I might be way wrong, but I think Phillipe is trying to find evidences of something that doesn't exist....
> War is not like during the Vietnam days, where some troops were filmed "being high on drugs", reacting silly, shooting without taking cover and endangering all their buds...





			
				MikeM said:
			
		

> My spidey sense is tingling about the agenda of this information you seek.



While I understand the reluctance to discuss these things on a public forum, there are no insinuations about anyone doing anything improper. The issue I'm getting at is how to fight a war in a place that's literally drenched in a destructive and addictive drug. Obviously, that can impact soldiers - although there would presumably be differences between the behaviour of an army of draftees (like in Vietnam) rather than a volunteer one. But a context of widespread heroin use/smuggling is bound to also impact relationships with interpreters, local sources, the training of security forces, etc. If anonymity is required to talk about this, that can be arranged, but rest assured, this isn't some drive-by smearing. Anyone's who's got any worries is free (and completely entitled) to contact me.


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## Trooper Hale (29 Aug 2007)

CSA 105 said:
			
		

> Sir,
> 
> It sounds like you are attempting to find a Strategic Corporal  to make a statement that you can use in future articles.  I would suggest that you not search here, but pursue the information you seek through official channels, or, if possible, travel to Afghanistan to observe our troops firsthand and therefore draw your own conclusions.
> 
> I suggest that site members *not* entertain this request - I see no good coming from it.


Sorry Phillipe but Hear Hear CSA105. The only thing that could come out of talking through unofficial channels with unknown faces on the internet is bad juju for all concerned.
Go talk to your closest base, see if one of the bosses will let you talk to his men who've been over there. Make it official, believe it or not, but thats where you'll get your honest answers. They'll tell you what they've seen and what they believe _firsthand_ which is always the best way to collect info.


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## Osotogari (29 Aug 2007)

What is the key thing that can be learned from this thread?


THE ENEMY IS LISTENING

..........and to add to that, so are their useful idiots.

I would have hated to see the idealogical prism used to filter the "unofficial" or "unnamed' sources used in the article in question, as I don't think anyone from MacLeans, CTV, CBC, or the Globe and Mail have ever met a lieberal they didn't like.  With Dion's agenda I'm sure I can guess.  I'm sure this guy will come up with his own conjecture if he can't get it here.


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## MikeM (29 Aug 2007)

+1 CSA, don't care who you are or who you work for, the CF has PAFFO for a reason. Or better yet, go over there for yourself and find out.


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## Brockvegas (29 Aug 2007)

Now may be a good time to lock this up, before it does any damage. "Phillipe" has been given direction as to where the information he seeks can be found, and it is not here. If there is a Mod around......


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## FastEddy (29 Aug 2007)

Brockvegas said:
			
		

> Now may be a good time to lock this up, before it does any damage. "Phillipe" has been given direction as to where the information he seeks can be found, and it is not here. If there is a Mod around......





That might not be in the best interest of this Thread, in that the number of (on track of course) CF members,
past and present who voice their positive opinions and suggestions concerning "Phillipe"s inquiries, should be evidence that he's fishing in the wrong pond.

It so blatantly obvious that he is obviously fishing for a Whistle Blower, where none exists because the association is moot. Its almost laughably like comparing it to a Surgeon operating on a Cancer ridden patient trying to save his life, but as a result, is he or will he get the Patients Cancer.

Post on Comrades.

Cheers.


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## Brockvegas (29 Aug 2007)

Good point. I retract my previous suggestion. Let's see how many times he hits that dead horse before he gives up.


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## FastEddy (29 Aug 2007)

Brockvegas said:
			
		

> Good point. I retract my previous suggestion. Let's see how many times he hits that dead horse before he gives up.




Right on !, it will be interesting to hear his come back, or if all , like you say.

Cheers.


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## Colin Parkinson (29 Aug 2007)

Maybe he should be talking to the other side:

_Also Sunday, Afghan and coalition troops destroyed a heroin laboratory after battling Taliban fighters guarding the facility, a separate coalition statement said. The lab in Helmand contained large amounts of opium-processing chemicals as well as weapons, insurgent propaganda and explosive materials, it said._


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/27/asia/AS-GEN-Afghan-Violence.php


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## philippe (29 Aug 2007)

Though this has probably veered too far off-course to be useful, I think the point needs to be made that there was never a 'right' answer to the initial question about the impact of the drug trade on the war in Afghanistan.

To say, for example, that "no special procedures are needed on Canadian bases because of x, y, and z" or "Kandahar is different than the rest of Afghanistan because of x, y, and z" or, simply, "I've been there and never came across anything related to the heroin trade" is just as useful an answer as anything else; it's an entirely *open-ended* question - like asking if anyone here likes chocolate ice cream. To suggest there's some political considerations lurking in the background is a pretty staggering misinterpretation. I've spoken to several official sources, and the idea of coming here was simply to complement those findings with a view from the ground. If it's fair to say the heroin trade has zero impact on military operations in Afghanistan, then there's no reason for me to ever say otherwise.


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## Kat Stevens (29 Aug 2007)

Retired now, so I can say this freely:  You will not get much response to your question, as soldiers have been  burned too many times by the "have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?" type questions from the press, me included.  Mention drugs and soldiers in the same article, and the inevitable a+b+c= potatoes assumptions are made; it's a loaded gun.


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## geo (29 Aug 2007)

Philippe,
Might I suggest that you have a try at contacting CIDA.

Opium is grown in Afghanistan as a cash crop -  It requires no supervision, no watering & almost no care at all until harvest time.  Compare that to your usual agricultural crops that need tons of water (Soviets destroyed the majority of irrigation systems to encourage population to gather in large urban centres) and then need an elaborate road network to allow farmers to take their crops to market.


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## Colin Parkinson (29 Aug 2007)

philippe said:
			
		

> Though this has probably veered too far off-course to be useful, I think the point needs to be made that there was never a 'right' answer to the initial question about the impact of the drug trade on the war in Afghanistan.
> 
> To say, for example, that "no special procedures are needed on Canadian bases because of x, y, and z" or "Kandahar is different than the rest of Afghanistan because of x, y, and z" or, simply, "I've been there and never came across anything related to the heroin trade" is just as useful an answer as anything else; it's an entirely *open-ended* question - like asking if anyone here likes chocolate ice cream. To suggest there's some political considerations lurking in the background is a pretty staggering misinterpretation. I've spoken to several official sources, and the idea of coming here was simply to complement those findings with a view from the ground. If it's fair to say the heroin trade has zero impact on military operations in Afghanistan, then there's no reason for me to ever say otherwise.



It's pretty staggering to consider that such a topic would not have the potential of huge political considerations. This mission is defining the future political landscape of Canada and Canada's role and presence in the world, everything about this mission, even the deployment of a Tim Horton's trailer in KAF has political ramifications. So if you had not considered the political side of your question the nicest thing I could say is that you are blissfully naive.

By the way I had to give you a demote based on your last post.


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## R.O.S (29 Aug 2007)

+ 1 Kat
+ 1 CSA

It's open season. Philipe you will not get anywhere here, please give up your wasting your time at this point.


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## Brockvegas (29 Aug 2007)

philippe said:
			
		

> it's an entirely open-ended question - like asking if anyone here likes chocolate ice cream.



Yes. Heroin is exactly like chocolate ice cream.  :



			
				philippe said:
			
		

> I've spoken to several official sources, and the idea of coming here was simply to complement those findings with a view from the ground.



You want a view from the ground? Get on a plane to Kandahar my friend. You want SOMEONE ELSE'S view from the ground without doing any work yourself.


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## Shamrock (29 Aug 2007)

philippe said:
			
		

> First off, I'm not a member of the Canadian Forces, but a reporter for Maclean's magazine. I'm trying to get an idea of just how prevalent or available heroin is in Afghanistan and was hoping someone here might be able to help. Feel free to contact me off the board (my email address is in my profile) if you prefer. Thanks for any information you might have.



Allow me to return this thread to the topic at hand.

I, for one, think it's absolutely abhorrent there are no safe injection sites in Afghanistan.


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## R.O.S (29 Aug 2007)

Brockvegas said:
			
		

> Yes. Heroin is exactly like chocolate ice cream.  ::



With a cherry on top  ;D

... im sorry but this thread is just rotating... Philipe you will discover no more answers here, just go to wikipedia lol


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