# Canada Post Woes (merged)



## Pea (9 Jan 2007)

I had a package on it's way to me from a friend for Christmas. My friend contacted me to see if I had recieved it yet, which I haven't. So we decide to use Canada Post's online tracking system. It shows that a parcel card was dropped off at my place on Dec 27th, and then the package was picked up and signed for at the local post office on January 2nd. Well first of all I never got the parcel card, and we check the mail every day, and second of all I sure didn't sign for it! You can even click to see the scanned signature online and someone forged my name.

Has anyone ever had their mail stolen like this? Isn't Canada Post supposed to ask for ID with correct name and mailing address before releasing a parcel? I know everytime I have gone to pick mine up they have required this. I am going to be stopping by my post office after work today to see what they say, should I also be contacing the police about this?

Thanks for any insight.


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## George Wallace (9 Jan 2007)

Looks like a Police matter.  Your friend has the Tracking Number and sent you notice it was mailed.  There is now a record at the Post Office of someone, not you, picking it up.  Whether or not they actually are able to catch the person who impersonated you, is another question, but it will assist you and your friend if there is an 'Insurance Question'.  Was the Pacel insured?


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## Pea (9 Jan 2007)

Yes the parcel was insured for $100.00. I'll contact the police this afternoon, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to sound like some annoying crazy lady when I called.


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## scoutfinch (9 Jan 2007)

I have recently gone through a similar episode with Canada Post only to come away shocked at how inept our postal service is.  Do not rely on their scanning/tracking system because through their own admission, it is not even remotely accurate.  Google 'canada post sucks' and you will find that your problem is only too common.


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## Cliffy433 (9 Jan 2007)

I once went to pick up a parcel with my parcel card and driver's licence in hand.  Since I had recently moved and hadn't yet changed my address on my licence, I also brought a post-marked utility bill showing both my name and new address as proof of residency at the new address.

I was informed that I didn't need either the driver's license or the utility bill - possession of the parcel card was proof of residency.  I didn't bother to point out it was also tentatively proof of a Criminal Code offense, theft of the Queen's mail.

tlm.


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## beach_bum (9 Jan 2007)

I know at the postal outlet by my place they have asked for picture ID every time I have gone to pick up a parcel.  Even when I present the Postal Card.


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## Pea (9 Jan 2007)

Every time I have had a parcel card before they have asked for ID too. When I first moved into my current place my ID had my previous address, so they requested either a work pay stub or utility bill with the new address. I was glad to show it, as at least I felt my mail was being protected. I guess that wasn't the case this time!  :threat:


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## DSB (9 Jan 2007)

I'd love to hear how this turns out.


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## armyvern (9 Jan 2007)

As I told Pea last night in chat, I have yet to be asked to show identification when picking up a parcel from Canada Post. Guess it depends on who happens to be working the kiosk when you (or obviously...someone pretending to be you) walks up for service.

Hello?? Canada Post??? A mandatory id check  the enforcement of that mandatory ID check would go an extremely long way to preventing the occurance of this federal offense!!


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## Pte_Martin (9 Jan 2007)

Ever since I've moved to Pet I have never had to show ID to pick up a package.


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## Michael OLeary (9 Jan 2007)

At my local postal outlet I am always asked for ID.  You should get Canada Post's official regulation on this, because if they are required to ask for ID, it is the fault of the Postal Outlet.


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## Pea (9 Jan 2007)

I called Canada Post and was told the policy is to ask for ID with name and address matching that of the parcel. I also contacted the police and they asked me to go by the post office it was supposedly picked up at, and explain to them my situation. I'm to see if they have any information about the person that signed for my parcel, and then contact them again. Then they said they will determine if they need to do an investigation or not.


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## Sig_Des (9 Jan 2007)

I've always been asked for ID, and ID with the address, or a utility bill.


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## nsmedicman (9 Jan 2007)

Hey...I have returned home from work, only to find packages sitting on my front step, and I have never been asked for ID when picking something up at the post office. So, none of these stories really surprise me. I have been at work in street clothes, and been handed packages in the parking lot, without being asked for ID.


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## medicineman (9 Jan 2007)

I'm not sure if they still have it anymore, but Canada Post used to have an investigation division that had full police powers of arrest and detention for just situations such as this (a friend of my parents used to be a Postal Inspector - he even carried a firearm).  Might want to check it out.

MM


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## xo31@711ret (9 Jan 2007)

I mailed a birthday card last year to my nephew once back home on the rock..'never got there'....mailed another...same thing. Few  months later my brother told me that one of the maintenance / cleaners was got got going through the mail and taking anthing that looked liked birthday cards; Xmas cards etc - looking for the $5.00 some poor old grandmother sends her grandkids I suppose. He was 'fired'. I thought tampering with the mail was a federal offence. Guy should of went to a crowbar hotel even if he was only caught once. wonder if the union had anything to do with his 'punishment (AND that's another topic).


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## TN2IC (9 Jan 2007)

Canada Post is welcomed to steal my bills and pay for them.



 ;D


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## Pea (9 Jan 2007)

Well I went to the post office after work and explained my situation. Unfortunately the lady that works there isn't the brightest star in the sky. She kept saying "could a room mate have picked it up for you?". And for the millionth time I explained we WEREN'T home and that they should NOT have released to anyone that wasn't me  with ID. I think she finally understood that point. So I asked to see the parcel card. Written on it is a different apartment number than mine. So first of all Canada Post put the parcel slip in the wrong box. (I checked with the sender and the parcel did have my correct address) And well then someone else came and picked it up pretending to be me. After basically talking to her in circles for a while I left and headed to the police station. 

The police officer was much nicer and much more helpful. He took all the information down and said that he would be going by the post office tomorrow, checking into getting surveillance from them, and then I guess go from there. The one thing we do have is that it shows which apartment mail box they put the card in. (which wasn't mine) So they will be able to stop by that apartment too and question those people. Here's hoping the occupant of that apartment, and whoever is on the surveillance tapes from the postal outlet match. (if they still have the film from that day) Whoever did this needs to be caught. 

Well that's my update for now.


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## TN2IC (9 Jan 2007)

Hey Pea... may be they will pay your bills for X-Mas now. Look on the bright side... at less it wasn't your T4.... ouch...    ;D


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## camochick (10 Jan 2007)

Canada post annoys me, like most government agencies (Try calling the passport office, I took a shower and had breakfast before i got someone on the line).
    When I was sending packages to the ghan, they argued with me on whether or not I needed a customs form to declare the contents. They just couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that yes the addess on the box was Canadian but it was going overseas. Then the oh so special people at Canada post thought that leaving hubby's kit, that he sent home before he got back from tour, on the front porch all day in the worst neighborhood in Edmonton was a good idea. Let's hope they resolve this issue for ya Wifey!! >


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## GO!!! (10 Jan 2007)

I have yet to hear of anyone (including me) getting any satisfaction from this sort of incident.

I also live in a "mixed income neighborhood" and Canada post persists in leaving my parcels on my front step, even when it says *SIGNATURE REQUIRED* on the label above the address. 

 The Canada Post method of resolution appears to be to pay you the insured amount and wash their hands of the whole issue. They won't tell you the results of any investigation, and once they give you the insurance money, apparently there is no obligation to give you the package back if they do find it.


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## xo31@711ret (10 Jan 2007)

They won't tell you the results of any investigation, and once they give you the insurance money, apparently there is no obligation to give you the package back if they do find it. What a load of crap! (Not you GO!!!, Canada Post) - any investigation SHOULD be made public and any/all perpetrators should be punished; maybe I'm jaded (of which I am), sounds possibly like a union thing...


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## GUNS (10 Jan 2007)

Canada Post, as a habit, I try very hard not to use them.

My cousin had requested his military documents for a VA claim. 

He returned from seeing his Dr. one day, only to find his complete military life history sitting on his door step.

He never bothered to contact Canada Post but went straight to DND and informed them of this breach of personal security.

Through all the jigs and reels, Canada Post apologized for incident.


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## Pea (10 Jan 2007)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> The Canada Post method of resolution appears to be to pay you the insured amount and wash their hands of the whole issue. They won't tell you the results of any investigation, and once they give you the insurance money, apparently there is no obligation to give you the package back if they do find it.



I don't expect anything further from Canada Post. They already allowed someone to bring MY parcel card into the post office, and gave them my package even though they obviously weren't me. Good job on following policy and asking for ID eh? The sender is putting in her claim to get the money back for the parcel. I'm dealing with the police now over the person who pretended to be me. Canada Post provided an apartment number that they say they "accidentally" dropped the parcel card off at instead of my place, and they have surveillance cameras at the outlet the person picked the package up from. The police may actually be able to catch this idiot. We'll see.


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## George Wallace (10 Jan 2007)

Well, now you definitely know that one of your neighbours is not at all to be trusted.  I am sure you are keeping an eye out for who lives in that apartment.


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## gaspasser (10 Jan 2007)

Pea, did you go to your neighbour and bang on his/her door?  Maybe they'll "man-up" if confronted.  Or are you waiting for the cops to do thier investigation?  
Good Luck.
BYTD


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## Pea (10 Jan 2007)

I'm a pretty small gal, so I generally try not to confront anyone if I don't need to.   I'm hoping the police will pay them a visit today.


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## Cliffy433 (11 Jan 2007)

Well, a bit of surprisingly good news on the Canada Post front from me...

Yesterday, in Saskatoon's "worst blizzard in 60 years", they actually attempted to deliver a parcel to my house, and left the card in the mailbox.  They tried to do it in the afternoon, sometime between noon, and when 9er Domestic got home (1500hrs), the time period when most of the city gave up and made a mad dash for home before they couldn't even try.

Kudos to that Canada Post employee.

tlm.


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## Pea (25 Jan 2007)

UPDATE:

You are never going to believe what just happened. My roomie just called to tell me that a man just showed up at our door asking for me. He explained that a parcel was brought to his apartment last month that he signed for. He then realized it was for a different apartment in the building and tried to bring it by but no one was home. (we were out of town that week) He then got sick and ended up in the hospital for the past month. He got home yesterday and remembered he still had this package. So he came by today to attempt to deliver it again. I can't believe my present actually made it's way to me in the end, unopened. What an honest guy for not keeping it!


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## gaspasser (25 Jan 2007)

Well, well, our faith in humanity is refreshed.
That person deserves a batch of cookies or something.
Honesty prevails.
Good for you,Pea..
...oh and, Merry Christmas...


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## medicineman (25 Jan 2007)

Gotta hate that - honesty is still around!!  Always nice to have a late surprise Xmas.

MM


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## George Wallace (25 Jan 2007)

Now you have to turn the Police Investigation off.


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## Pea (25 Jan 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Now you have to turn the Police Investigation off.



Thanks George. I've already let the police know.


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## Meridian (25 Jan 2007)

Was this a "postal counter" aka "Authorized Postal Outlet"  or an actual Post Office?

Only the Post Office has actual Canada Post employees in it...  the rest are just licensed franchisees if you will; usually these employees are paid next to nothing (since there is a middle-man and no big corporate giant to unionize against)... an old friend of mine used to work in the call centre that serviced these centres, and she couldn't believe some of the things these people did.


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## Fyuri (26 Jan 2007)

Pea, you would find it quite surprising how easy it is to misdeliver anything, even when the actual address is right there in front of you, to write down the wrong address. However, the Retail Postal Outlet should NOT have released that package in the first place (please note, I am in no way sticking up for Canada Post here, just saying they didn't have too much fault in this case, just misdelivering the Delivery Notice Card). I deliver mail for a "living" right now, and I could tell you stories about the stupidity of not just some, but MOST people in there. I am only in this job for the money right now, and once I am a bit more financially secure, I will be leaving Canada Post in favour of the Forces. The almighty dollar has won me out with them, as they pay me fairly well, that is the only reason I would consider working there. It disgusts me sometimes how incompetent people are. I like to think I'm one of the few good ones there, others may think otherwise, but I keep to myself when I'm there, as I would not value the friendship of most people there, they are dishonest, and are only looking out for themselves. GO!!!, as for Personal Contact Items (requiring a signature) being left at your doorstep, call your local post office, and inform them of this when it happens. That person, after so many infractions, SHOULD lose their job (we all know how likely THAT is...) The real reason I'm telling you to contact them is to obtain the personal information of the person responsible for this infraction, that you may provide it to me, and I will be more than happy to throatpunch him/her, all the while screaming at him/her to learn how to do their job.
All this from a term employee, having finished training on Novermber 28th, 2006. I can't wait to see what's in store next week.
Sorry for the rant.
-Fyuri


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## Paul Gagnon (26 Jan 2007)

Pea said:
			
		

> I had a package on it's way to me from a friend for Christmas. My friend contacted me to see if I had recieved it yet, which I haven't. So we decide to use Canada Post's online tracking system. It shows that a parcel card was dropped off at my place on Dec 27th, and then the package was picked up and signed for at the local post office on January 2nd. Well first of all I never got the parcel card, and we check the mail every day, and second of all I sure didn't sign for it! You can even click to see the scanned signature online and someone forged my name.
> 
> Has anyone ever had their mail stolen like this? Isn't Canada Post supposed to ask for ID with correct name and mailing address before releasing a parcel? I know everytime I have gone to pick mine up they have required this. I am going to be stopping by my post office after work today to see what they say, should I also be contacing the police about this?
> 
> Thanks for any insight.



I had a parcel come at just before Christmas and nobody at the post office could tell me where it was. I even wwent to the main post office here and had someone search through the whole place to find it. I phoned the toll free number and they said that it had been dropped off at the post office near my house and that a card had been placed at my house. There was no card so I got the card number from them (the people at the toll free number) and went to the post office. They had the package there. The next day the card was in my mal box. I guess the mailman had filled it out and left it in his truck, then when he found out he'd forgotten it he put it in the mailbox. 

The long and short of it is that the online tracking system that Canada Post uses is not very good, the post office only has access to the same tracking system but the people at the toll free number have a much more detailed system. Call them and give them the trackng number. They should be able to give you more information.


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## Meridian (26 Jan 2007)

Again, the people at the postal outlets are just clerks who work for a franchisee, they aren't actually Canada Post employees.  Thus, you get the same quality of service you'd get at a corner store/pharmacy.

Post Offices (the big ones) and the central call centre should be in a better position.

BTW, interesting tidbit, Purolator is owned by Canada Post....


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## Pea (26 Jan 2007)

For those of you that may have missed my update above, I did receive my package yesterday. I also filed a complaint with Canada Post though. They mis-delivered my parcel card, which I know does happen. What annoyed me most was they allowed that individual to bring it into their postal outlet, and then sign for the package. They should have requested ID, and they would have realized he was not me, and my parcel would have stayed at the post office for the rightful owner. Thankfully in my case, the gentlemen that signed for it returned it to me.


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## Paul Gagnon (26 Jan 2007)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Again, the people at the postal outlets are just clerks who work for a franchisee, they aren't actually Canada Post employees.  Thus, you get the same quality of service you'd get at a corner store/pharmacy.
> 
> Post Offices (the big ones) and the central call centre should be in a better position.
> 
> BTW, interesting tidbit, Purolator is owned by Canada Post....



In my case the only dealing I had with the people at the postal outlet (7-11 in this case) was to give them the card number and take my package home. It was the main post office that I went to and had no luck finding the package. 

If your package was sent priority post it is a guaranteed service. Have the person who sent it contact Canada Post and get a refund on the charges.


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## xo31@711ret (27 Jan 2007)

A couple days ago I received a letter in my mailbox with the wrong name and address; so I put a large post-it sticky with 'WRONG NAME / WRONG ADDRESS' in bold, large black felt tip letters. About every noon when home, I usually hear my mail box quickly open and close by the mail carrier. Today I hear my mailbox open, a good  seconds pass by and then close. Later, I go open my mailbox , get my mail, and low and behold, there's the same letter with the sticky on it sitting on the side of the mailbox. Will try again tomorrow... :


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## Fyuri (27 Jan 2007)

Two suggestions, one, just cross out the address and put RTS on it (I know it's not really the nicest thing to do, but if it gets it out of your possession, do it ) Or 2) Ambush the letter carrier as he is coming, it involves a stakeout-like approach, but can be done very easily (it happens to me very often). It's pretty much guaranteed you won't see it again. Sometimes, if someone just leaves a single letter in their mailbox, with no indication it was misdelivered, I leave it, but only because I'm a term, and have no idea who lives in which houses. But the post-it should be a telltale sign... Your letter carrier is a fool. And Pea, again, it was mostly the fault of the specific clerk at the retail postal outlet, not Canada Post itself, that caused your troubles. He/she violated Canada Post procedure, but I don't think it's up to Canada Post to deal with any disciplinary action, because those postal outlets are merely on contract with Canada Post, we pay them to take our carded items.
-Fyuri


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## Pea (27 Jan 2007)

That's fine. I just have a huge issue in the way accountability seems to mean nothing to a lot of people these days. People so often just "pass the buck". The postal carrier managed to go from apartment "B2" to "102". I see a big difference there. And then the "contract postal outlet" allowed some random person to then sign for a package that wasn't theirs. I know "crap happens", and I got my package in the end because of a nice person. I just hate when I lose faith in yet another system. I know I'll stay away from Canada Post after this, as much as I can. If I was to accidentally send one of my tenant's legal documents to the wrong address or allow someone else to sign for these confidential documents, I'd be leaving work with my belongings in a box. As it should be, because of a little thing called accountability. And that's my rant for the night.


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## Paul Gagnon (27 Jan 2007)

xo31@711ret said:
			
		

> A couple days ago I received a letter in my mailbox with the wrong name and address; so I put a large post-it sticky with 'WRONG NAME / WRONG ADDRESS' in bold, large black felt tip letters. About every noon when home, I usually hear my mail box quickly open and close by the mail carrier. Today I hear my mailbox open, a good  seconds pass by and then close. Later, I go open my mailbox , get my mail, and low and behold, there's the same letter with the sticky on it sitting on the side of the mailbox. Will try again tomorrow... :



If you are just leaving it in the mailbox they will probably never see it. It's not like a rural mailbox where they are looking for outgoing mail. Drop it in the mailbox on the street corner or if you have a StupidMailbox in the outgoing slot, and it will go away and never come back (at least that one).


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## xo31@711ret (28 Jan 2007)

Hi Paul, I left it in the mailbox with sticky sitting end up so he had to have seen it (done it yesterday also; still there). But thanx, never occurred to me :  to just put it in a mailbox so it could be delivered to the appropriate address. Must be the Alzheimer's catching up on me...


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## sober_ruski (28 Jan 2007)

All the time when i was picking up stuff i was asked for id. Probably because in most cases those were rifle case sized objects with $500-700 CoD attached to them  ;D


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## Shepard (19 Apr 2015)

Greetings,

A few days ago, I had come home to find a package that I had received in the mail had arrived from the states. I ordered a mint condition of PC Accelerator 1999 from Ebay. Immediately I noticed that the envelopes were cut open and taped closed. Okay. I open all the envelopes and take out the CDs from their holsters and they're both scratched - one terribly worse than the other.

I tried to go their site and see if I can file a damaged parcel claim, but apparently only the sender can initiate it- and even if he did, he can't start the ticket because his postal code is not a Canadian one.
dfs
What can I do? I'm trying to collect these things and this one  was pretty ****ing hard to find so I'm about to have an aneurysm. 

Cheers.


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Apr 2015)

Shepard said:
			
		

> Greetings,
> 
> A few days ago, I had come home to find a package that I had received in the mail had arrived from the states. I ordered a mint condition of PC Accelerator 1999 from Ebay. Immediately I noticed that the envelopes were cut open and taped closed. Okay. I open all the envelopes and take out the CDs from their holsters and they're both scratched - one terribly worse than the other.
> 
> ...



IIRC correctly only CBSA can open mail and if they do they usually seal it again by using CBSA yellow tape with  OPENED BY CBSA printed on it. If your package does not have this then I would hazard a guess that the seller opened the package...


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## Shepard (19 Apr 2015)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> If your package does not have this then I would hazard a guess that the seller opened the package...



Why would the seller bother opening the package?


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## jeffb (19 Apr 2015)

Shepard said:
			
		

> Why would the seller bother opening the package?



If it doesn't have the CBSA tape then that is the conclusion that makes the most sense. Check out http://pages.ebay.ca/ebay-money-back-guarantee/. Have you tried sending a message to the buyer? Often people on EBay will bend over backwards to avoid a negative rating.


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## Shepard (19 Apr 2015)

jeffb said:
			
		

> If it doesn't have the CBSA tape then that is the conclusion that makes the most sense. Check out http://pages.ebay.ca/ebay-money-back-guarantee/. Have you tried sending a message to the buyer? Often people on EBay will bend over backwards to avoid a negative rating.



There's no tape or any sort of mark.

 I've messaged the seller and he told me he is contacting Ebay about the issue a few days ago. I'm annoyed about how my **** was being opened up unwarrantably. I've been looking all over the CP site for a way to contact them about this or to create a ticket but so far it's a maze.

I'm planning on going to the local processing building  that my package was delivered to on Monday.


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## expwor (19 Apr 2015)

The biggest problem is tracking down who opened (and possibly damaged) the item
Coming from the United States it could be U.S Postal Inspectors.
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactUs/faq.aspx
Or it could be CBSA (found this link) http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/menu-eng.html
Or possibly Canada Post (found this link) https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/support/helpcentre/receiving/damaged_letter.jsf?ssl=1
or maybe the sender on eBay poorly packed and shipped an already damaged 1999 PC Accelerator (it is possible)
No answers for you, just some links to check for further investigation

Tom


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Apr 2015)

You'll be extremely lucky to get any sort of satisfaction from Canada Post. The complaint system is set up the way it is so they receive no complaints and when they do, they seldom if ever investigate or take responsibility.

There are tons of cases out there where items under care of CP have been lost, damaged and outright stolen. The delivery people consistently fail to follow direction. If you say 'Do Not Safe Drop' you can almost guarantee you'll find it with your neighbour. Asking for a signature on delivery is a useless $1.50 charge. You'll come home and (hopefully) find your package laying on the porch for anyone passing by to pick up.

CP is an entity onto itself, similar to the CBC. They answer to no one.

I wouldn't start with the originator. I'd start with the people last handling the package and work back. You likey won't have to look very far.


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## TSM A (19 Apr 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> You'll be extremely lucky to get any sort of satisfaction from Canada Post. The complaint system is set up the way it is so they receive no complaints and when they do, they seldom if ever investigate or take responsibility.
> 
> There are tons of cases out there where items under care of CP have been lost, damaged and outright stolen. The delivery people consistently fail to follow direction. If you say 'Do Not Safe Drop' you can almost guarantee you'll find it with your neighbour. Asking for a signature on delivery is a useless $1.50 charge. You'll come home and (hopefully) find your package laying on the porch for anyone passing by to pick up.
> 
> ...



I would start with the originator. EBay is notoriusly bad for service. it's hit or miss on getting what you actually paid for.

I'm a Canada Post employee, Delivery agent in fact. 99% of us are good employee's but like any other business there are bad eggs. The culture within the PO uses intimidation to keep us in line. Fear of being fired for even the smallest infraction (even non delivery of a single piece of unaddressed admail!) Recceguy I'm sorry if you've had bad service, If i were your lettercarrier you'd begetting better. Please dont paint the entire system with the same wide brush.


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Apr 2015)

I wish it were my letter carrier. The ones I have the beef with are the guys trying to empty their trucks asap and go home early. My letter carriers are good, even though they seem to change almost monthly.

You only have to go over to gunnutz and read how many firearms disappear in our postal system to get the gist. These are packages that are delivered to the post office and are never seen again.


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## a_majoor (19 Apr 2015)

Possible solutions to your problem are spelled FedEX, UPS, DHL....


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Apr 2015)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Possible solutions to your problem are spelled FedEX, UPS, DHL....



Which always provide me excellent service. CANPAR are the only ones that will ship ammo.


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## captloadie (20 Apr 2015)

It is funny that location can have such an effect on service. Here in North East Alberta, Canada Post is my go to service provider. Things arrive on time, and even early. Yes, I have to go to the outlet to get my packages, but they are always there and in good shape.

By contrast, the courier companies here suck. Only one or two actually deliver, and everyone else subcontracts to them. The drivers are overworked, underpaid, and not what I would describe as motivated in any possible sense of the word. I've had friends who had people contact them because their package was found behind a gas station. Others can track their packages doing endless loops around the countryside, yet never getting delivered because the driver runs out of time. Locations that aren't open for pickup, and then parcels get sent back to Edmonton, because a single delivery attempt failed. The compnay who delivers to my wife's work often forces the girls to go out and take things off the truck because its to much of an effort for him to bring the bins up the four steps to take things inside. And they never take the empty bins back. Complaining gets you no where, except futher down the line for delivery.


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## George Wallace (20 Apr 2015)

captloadie said:
			
		

> It is funny that location can have such an effect on service. Here in North East Alberta, Canada Post is my go to service provider. Things arrive on time, and even early. Yes, I have to go to the outlet to get my packages, but they are always there and in good shape.
> 
> By contrast, the courier companies here suck. Only one or two actually deliver, and everyone else subcontracts to them. The drivers are overworked, underpaid, and not what I would describe as motivated in any possible sense of the word. I've had friends who had people contact them because their package was found behind a gas station. Others can track their packages doing endless loops around the countryside, yet never getting delivered because the driver runs out of time. Locations that aren't open for pickup, and then parcels get sent back to Edmonton, because a single delivery attempt failed. The compnay who delivers to my wife's work often forces the girls to go out and take things off the truck because its to much of an effort for him to bring the bins up the four steps to take things inside. And they never take the empty bins back. Complaining gets you no where, except futher down the line for delivery.



At the same time, just like the military, people with no experience in actual customer service have made "Cost Saving" decisions at Canada Post that have lead to the continuing degradation of their service and customer base.  Back in the mid '80's Canada Post came up with the idea of Centralized Sorting Plants.   Sounds like, and perhaps was, a cost saving plan; but it came at the cost of Canadians losing "timely" postal service.  My example is: When posted to Gagetown, my mother living in Fredericton 20 km away would mail me a Birthday Card, which went into the mailbox in Fredericton, picked up and taken to their central office, put on a truck and driven right past my house to St John 60+ km away to be sorted and then driven back to Oromocto a minimum of seven days later.  Meanwhile, a Birthday card mailed in Germany to the same address, at the same time, took only three days to be delivered.  That was the start, in my opinion, to the gradual degradation in Canada Post service and the growth in consumer dissatisfaction.  Then became the brilliant idea of "Super Boxes" in the early '90's, as new subdivisions were built in metropolitan areas......Now to be expanded to older area that have mail delivered to their door.  Again, I think of my 90 year mother who has a walker, lives on a hill and no matter what the weather, will be forced to walk up and down a hill for her mail.  Canada Post is no longer a "Service Provider" but a corporation run by the "Mcdonald's Generation" of CEOs whose philosophy is to get in and out as fast as possible, with as much money as they can make, and damn the customer.  Canada Post has been on the road to 'self destruction' for years now.


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## mariomike (20 Apr 2015)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Again, I think of my 90 year mother who has a walker, lives on a hill and no matter what the weather, will be forced to walk up and down a hill for her mail.



To add to what George said, "...the possibility of women fleeing domestic abuse being located by their abusers staking out community mailboxes is possible."

Man who broke leg at super mailbox has a message for Canada Post 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/man-who-broke-leg-at-super-mailbox-has-a-message-for-canada-post-1.3033098
"...broke his ankle in three places stepping through a snow bank to get to a community mailbox..."

"Super mailboxes in B.C. targeted thousands of times, records reveal
More than 4,800 incidents reported in 130 communities between 2008 and 2013
Surrey B.C. resident Craig Findlay, 60, said his community mailbox has been plagued by 'non-stop break-ins' over the past decade, often in broad daylight."

"photos of super mailboxes with mounds of junk mail around them."


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## Rick Goebel (22 Apr 2015)

I’ve lived in the same 27 story (four floors of businesses and the rest residences) condo since 1988 and have gotten pretty agreeable Canada Post service.  We’ve just been informed by Canada Post, though, that the businesses in the building will no longer be able to have their mail dropped off at our manned front desk.  We need to provide lockable boxes like the residences have.  Canada Post will neither deliver to the individual offices nor drop the mail off at our front desk.  Also, anything for the businesses or residences that requires a signature will have to be signed by the addressee and not the security man or the item will be taken away and left at a postal outlet.  It was very convenient to have items delivered to our building and available at our front desk when we got home.  It is much less convenient to have to go to another location some days later to get the item.

Purolator, Fedex, UPS, Canpar, etc will all accept the security man's signature to leave an item.

I just had to write this because I just saw a TV commercial that ended with “Canada Post.  Delivering the online world.”


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## George Wallace (22 Apr 2015)

Yes.  Canada Post is striving to move into the realm of electronic media, for delivery of bills, secure banking, online shopping, etc.  I highly doubt that they will actually find a niche on the internet with all of the services that are already provided by business and banks.  I see them giving up their 'bread and butter' in search of something that so many others have already started to provide and have mastered.  It would seem that Canada Post actually has a "Death Wish".


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## The Bread Guy (10 Jul 2016)

Latest on the negotiations ...


> Tomorrow could mark the start of lockouts for postal workers across the country.
> 
> Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers WERE working towards a 30 day cooling down period that would keep the mail moving and allow negotiations to continue.
> 
> ...


Meanwhile, Team Blue on an end to door-to-door, December 2013:


> ... Transport Minister Lisa Raitt is defending the decision.
> 
> Raitt, the minister responsible for the Crown corporation, says Canadians are sending less mail than ever, leaving Canada Post with some tough financial decisions in order to combat a steep decline in revenues.
> 
> ...


Team Blue on an end to door-to-door, July 2016:





One step further (from a leadership contender) ...


> A Conservative leadership candidate has come out in favour of privatizing Canada Post as the Crown corporation faces an ongoing labour dispute.
> 
> It's the latest headline-grabbing move from veteran Quebec MP Maxime Bernier, whose campaign has pushed for a dismantling of what he sees as big government monopolies.
> 
> Bernier said in a release Friday that he is concerned Canadians will be denied services because of the dispute between Canada Post and its union, which would hurt small and medium-sized businesses, and others who rely on the service ...


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## PuckChaser (10 Jul 2016)

Union doesn't want binding arbitration because they don't believe they have a case for anything they want. If they had one, they wouldn't be afraid of arbitration. It's not about bargaining rights, they want to squeeze blood out of a stone.


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## mariomike (10 Jul 2016)

"Canadians are sending less mail than ever...|


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## George Wallace (10 Jul 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> "Canadians are sending less mail than ever...|



Of course they are.  Canada Post has been putting itself out of business since the 1980's when they started cutting service and staff.  They are a "Service Orientated" business that is providing less and less service.  The customer is not going to put up with poor service, and will find better service elsewhere.

Once upon a time, many years ago, the mail was delivered to your door six days a week.  That was cut back to save dollars.  It had little affect on their service, but it proved to those in the Ivory Towers that saving a buck to become profitable was doable.  Unfortunately, those in the Ivory Towers did not do so well over the next four or five decades when they cut staff and service with their new brain storming ideas.  Centralized sorting saved some dollars, but degraded service.  The Super Boxes, permitted the downsizing in Staff (Letter Carriers) and provided some immediate profits, but degraded service and required the hiring of Contractors.  The current plan to stop ALL home delivery further cuts their "service" to their customers.  Their venturing into the electronic area of deliver is questionable, as that puts them in direct competition with other companies and networks that have been long established, efficient and profitable.  The demise of Canada Post has been a long self inflicted process of mismanagement over several decades.  Both the UNION and the Mandarins at Canada Post hold equal blame for their demise.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Jul 2016)

And it's not just carriers. Cutbacks happened all over the place. We had our own sorting plant here. CanPost decided to move it to London. Prior to the move I could send a letter across town the next day if I put it in the box in the morning. Now it takes over a week, or more, to get a letter sent across the street. My mail now gets picked up, partially processed locally, sent to London, sorted and sent back here for delivery. We still have the material infrastructure to do it here, but no way. It's why people here are using couriers or email. CanPost is very, very close to being redundant and not worthy of existing at all.


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## George Wallace (10 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> And it's not just carriers. Cutbacks happened all over the place. We had our own sorting plant here. CanPost decided to move it to London. Prior to the move I could send a letter across town the next day if I put it in the box in the morning. Now it takes over a week, or more, to get a letter sent across the street. My mail now gets picked up, partially processed locally, sent to London, sorted and sent back here for delivery. We still have the material infrastructure to do it here, but no way. It's why people here are using couriers or email. CanPost is very, very close to being redundant and not worthy of existing at all.



That was happening in the Mid '80's.  I sent a postcard home to Oromocto from Germany the day I was returning, to see who would get home first.  The postcard took three days to travel in regular Post from Germany to my door in Oromocto.  A month or so later, my mother in Fredericton, appox. 20 km away, sent me a birthday card.  It was picked up in Fredericton, put on a truck and driven past my house in Oromocto to Saint John, sorted and then trucked back to Oromocto for deliver to the door.  It took over seven days, more than twice the time a card from half way around the world, to go that 20 km.

In more recent news, Canada Post is going to close its large plant on Industrial Rd in Ottawa, and send all of Ottawa's mail to Montreal for sorting.  A city of nearly 1 million people is sending all its mail two hours down the road to another province and city to be sorted.  If that does not defy any logic, then nothing does.  Proof that people with Degrees, but no experience, making these decisions are destroying the country....In this case, Canada Post.


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## runormal (10 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> And it's not just carriers. Cutbacks happened all over the place. We had our own sorting plant here. CanPost decided to move it to London. Prior to the move I could send a letter across town the next day if I put it in the box in the morning. Now it takes over a week, or more, to get a letter sent across the street. My mail now gets picked up, partially processed locally, sent to London, sorted and sent back here for delivery. We still have the material infrastructure to do it here, but no way. It's why people here are using couriers or email. CanPost is very, very close to being redundant and not worthy of existing at all.



See this must be where the generational gap exists.

Why would anyone mail a letter these days? You can send it instantly by email, furthermore it is free and if you really want you can put a read receipt on it. 

The only time I see people in my age group sending letters are for wedding invitations..

I do enjoy the odd card that I receive from my sister, but if it costs a dollar to ship it, plus the 3-4 dollars for a card what is the point?

The only time in the past 5 years I can remember mailing anything was university transcripts and the odd letter to my ex (girlfriend at the time) while I was on course because it was "fun" and was a good way to pass the time.. 





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> In more recent news, Canada Post is going to close its large plant on Industrial Rd in Ottawa, and send all of Ottawa's mail to Montreal for sorting.  A city of nearly 1 million people is sending all its mail two hours down the road to another province and city to be sorted.  If that does not defy any logic, then nothing does.  Proof that people with Degrees, but no experience, making these decisions are destroying the country....In this case, Canada Post.



I am rather surprised by this.. I'll have to do more research on this.


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## cavalryman (10 Jul 2016)

runormal said:
			
		

> I am rather surprised by this.. I'll have to do more research on this.



Here you go
http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/canada-post-to-cut-ottawa-jobs-move-processing-to-montreal-1.1819970

It's from 2 years ago, so how valid that remains, I don't know.

Edited to add that my google-fu hasn't found anything more recent than 2014 on this


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Jul 2016)

runormal said:
			
		

> See this must be where the generational gap exists.
> 
> Why would anyone mail a letter these days? You can send it instantly by email, furthermore it is free and if you really want you can put a read receipt on it.
> 
> ...



There are thousands of people, in Canada alone, that don't have computer access or knowledge of use. If you want to tell the government something, through your elected officials and expect them to read your letter, it better be on paper and through the mail. Otherwise they don't much look at emails. I can't send and receive packages over the internet. (You can order them like that, but they still need delivery, much of that by CanPost.) and so on.


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## George Wallace (10 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> There are thousands of people, in Canada alone, that don't have computer access or knowledge of use. If you want to tell the government something, through your elected officials and expect them to read your letter, it better be on paper and through the mail. Otherwise they don't much look at emails. I can't send and receive packages over the internet. (You can order them like that, but they still need delivery, much of that by CanPost.) and so on.



Not to mention, the Government and various other institutions such as Insurance Companies are still sending out cheques in the mail.  My PDSP claim is submitted digitally, but the cheque is still sent in the mail.

As for electronic being free; that is a false claim.  You are still paying for a service.  Canada Post is trying to get into the electronic passage of info, mail, etc. business; and you can bet your last dollar that they intend to charge for it.


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## marinemech (10 Jul 2016)

Canada post already sorta has broken into mail with epost (one old employer strickly used it to send out stubs and t4 and ROEs)


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## The Bread Guy (10 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ... Canada Post is going to close its large plant on Industrial Rd in Ottawa, and send all of Ottawa's mail to Montreal for sorting.  A city of nearly 1 million people is sending all its mail two hours down the road to another province and city to be sorted ...


<sarcasm>But don't you know that fewer, bigger places to get 'er done is FAR better than a lot of smaller places?  That seems to be the argument with schools, hospitals and nursing homes</sarcasm> - oh, wait, those examples don't always work better with "fewer but bigger, either".

That said, I don't know if privatization would make things better, especially in areas that are more "Canadian-ish":  not many people, lots of geography to cover.


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## runormal (11 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> There are thousands of people, in Canada alone, that don't have computer access or knowledge of use.



I really don't buy this argument at all, i grew up in Rural Ontario and in my small town of 900 people we had a library with 2 computers for free access to be used throughout the day, I haven't stepped foot in it since around 2007, so I imagine the offerings have improved. We also got a new Library a few years ago, so I guarantee they have. 

Regardless, you can buy a functional desktop for low 300's or an android tablet for much less. At the end of the day it is 2016, anyone who at this point has decided to not adopt this "new" technology is leaving themselves behind. With three websites you have so much access to information, Google, Wikipedia and Facebook. Probably the next two influential would be YouTube and twitter (I don't personally use Twitter however). If people don't know, ask. I've helped my mom,dad and siblings, but surprisingly my grandparents on both sides of the family where more computer savy than my parents. 



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> If you want to tell the government something, through your elected officials and expect them to read your letter, it better be on paper and through the mail. Otherwise they don't much look at emails.



I agree with this is, and this is the one con for doing things online that you loose the "human touch".  



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> I can't send and receive packages over the internet. (You can order them like that, but they still need delivery, much of that by CanPost.) and so on.



I personally do not ship much, I receive from online retailers here or there, but the only time I've received something was when I needed my mom to ship my dress clothes after a move.  I personally get a good service from Canada Post but again if they went on strike next week it wouldn't effect me other than my dollar shave club razors  . If I were to buy something online I would just pay the extra shipping to get someone else to deliver it. But again, I'm young, trying to pay of student loans/save money so unless something breaks (mouse/keyboard/laptop) I'm not buying anything.. Can Post does do a good job of shipping packages, especially because they have so many retail outlets from when they used to send a lot of letters. My original post did reference letters, as that is where my problem with Canada Post. I'm trying to understand how many letters people actually receive. 



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Not to mention, the Government and various other institutions such as Insurance Companies are still sending out cheques in the mail.  My PDSP claim is submitted digitally, but the cheque is still sent in the mail.



I think this is an age thing again, you have existing mail out cheques set up so you'll get them. Case in point, my mom gets a hard copy GST rebate, I get the same cheque direct deposited. Likewise last year the government strictly said that they were not mailing out T4's unless it was required (i.e lack off access to system, or no longer employed). The only thing that my government job mailed me was a copy of my last pay cheque/summary of contract because your file is closed after you leave so they just mail it your address on file. Likewise, my credit card statements (RBC), phone bills (Koodo), pay stubs army (EMAA) are all sent electronically. RBC/Koodo all would charge me $1.50 a month if I wanted a paper copy mailed to me. To me that is a waste of money I'll just print a copy off at home if I REALLY need one.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> As for electronic being free; that is a false claim.  You are still paying for a service.  Canada Post is trying to get into the electronic passage of info, mail, etc. business; and you can bet your last dollar that they intend to charge for it.



Good luck to Canada Post, you can use any email service for "free". Yes google is reading all of your emails, but it is "free". Everything we send at work (civvy side) that is external is sent through email, there is no reason to change that. Especially when how powerful tools such as mail merge are (you can send 1000 emails personalized emails to a matter of minutes based on a excel spreadsheet). Pretty neat stuff. I did see "E-Post" way back in the when, but for me another email type service to monitor? No thanks, I can barely monitor 3 emails as it is.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jul 2016)

runormal said:
			
		

> I really don't buy this argument at all, i grew up in Rural Ontario and in my small town of 900 people we had a library with 2 computers for free access to be used throughout the day, I haven't stepped foot in it since around 2007, so I imagine the offerings have improved. We also got a new Library a few years ago, so I guarantee they have.
> 
> Regardless, you can buy a functional desktop for low 300's or an android tablet for much less. At the end of the day it is 2016, anyone who at this point has decided to not adopt this "new" technology is leaving themselves behind. With three websites you have so much access to information, Google, Wikipedia and Facebook. Probably the next two influential would be YouTube and twitter (I don't personally use Twitter however). If people don't know, ask. I've helped my mom,dad and siblings, but surprisingly my grandparents on both sides of the family where more computer savy than my parents.



Many on fixed income can't afford a computer, even at $300. Then they have to pay for internet. You can't expect people, especially old and infirm, to get up every day and walk to the closest Tim's and do their business. I'm glad you're available to spend time teaching your parents and grandparents. Millions of people don't have that luxury. The fact is, there are hundreds of thousands out there who, for one reason or another, don't do email or computers. You can't cut people off from communicating with others because they don't do computer. The government can't just stop physical mail delivery, until it, officially and universally, has a program to move away from it.


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## George Wallace (11 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Many on fixed income can't afford a computer, even at $300. Then they have to pay for internet. You can't expect people, especially old and infirm, to get up every day and walk to the closest Tim's and do their business. I'm glad you're available to spend time teaching your parents and grandparents. Millions of people don't have that luxury. The fact is, there are hundreds of thousands out there who, for one reason or another, don't do email or computers. You can't cut people off from communicating with others because they don't do computer. The government can't just stop physical mail delivery, until it, officially and universally, has a program to move away from it.



 :goodpost:  Excellent points.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

There are already mechanisms in place that, other than parcel deliveries, replace traditional mail services.  It's a matter for the government to set a date at which time, mail delivery of government correspondence will incur a cost to the user while electronic communication remains free (like a lot of private institutions already do).  Then, sometime later, traditional mail is phased out entirely from government communications.  

Computers and Internet can be accessed for free at most public librairies.  I see no issues with starting implementing such a plan in the near future.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

In southern Ontario you can get a smart phone with 5gb data and unlimited Canada and US calling for 45 per month.  Cheaper than a Bell landline. 

How long and for how much taxpayer money must we subsidize those who refuse to change?


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## QV (11 Jul 2016)

This is all just a continuation on the governments of the day plan to reduce its liabilities.  Severance pay loss, pension "modernization", VAC pensions, increased pension contribution rates, reduction in final move benefits... this Canada Post issue is just one of many.


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> In southern Ontario you can get a smart phone with 5gb data and unlimited Canada and US calling for 45 per month.


Not all of Canada has access to cheap, reliable internet access - I live in a city of 110,000 or so, and 30 minutes drive from here, people can only get dial-up or hugely-expensive satellite service because the "big vendors" say it's not economically viable.  Not everyone lives in the GTA or NCC, so not all GTA/NCC solutions are available to all Canadians.

And to those saying public libraries are available for internet access:  how many of you would be willing to restrict your access to your own electronic access to business hours only?  And as more of us look things up online instead of talking to a librarian, libraries are shrinking staff and hours, so they may also be at risk of going the way of stamped mail.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

So you're saying there are costs and disadvantages to choosing to live in a rural area.  Fine, but be willing to pay for the choices you make.  If you want your 20 acres practically off the grid, then pay the cost for your mail- and don't expect urban areas to subsidize your lifestyle choice.


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So you're saying there are costs and disadvantages to choosing to live in a rural area.  Fine, but be willing to pay for the choices you make.  If you want your 20 acres practically off the grid, then pay the cost for your mail- and don't expect urban areas to subsidize your lifestyle choice.


Then it should be called something other than "Canada" Post if not all of Canada can have _some_ level of basic service maintained.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> And to those saying public libraries are available for internet access:  how many of you would be willing to restrict your access to your own electronic access to business hours only?  And as more of us look things up online instead of talking to a librarian, libraries are shrinking staff and hours, so they may also be at risk of going the way of stamped mail.



Well, the people using the libraries will not reveive their snail mail outside regular buisness hours either.  If you choose not to have internet (it is a choice these days) then you suffer the consequences:  pay for the mail service or pay for internet.


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## PMedMoe (11 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> If you choose not to have internet (it is a choice these days)



I beg to differ.  I know people in some rural areas who are still "off the grid".  It's coming, but it's not there yet.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So you're saying there are costs and disadvantages to choosing to live in a rural area.  Fine, but be willing to pay for the choices you make.  If you want your 20 acres practically off the grid, then pay the cost for your mail- and don't expect urban areas to subsidize your lifestyle choice.



If I was off the grid. I wouldn't need mail. Electronic or otherwise. Also, if you force people in rural areas to 'foot the bill' it'll end up being you anyway, when the price on rural commodities are increased to pay for their bottom line.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

Give me that choice to pay more for XXXX from a rural area - don't assume that I want it and make me pay through taxes.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I beg to differ.  I know people in some rural areas who are still "off the grid".  It's coming, but it's not there yet.



It is still a choice to be "off the grid" these days.


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## George Wallace (11 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> It is still a choice to be "off the grid" these days.



Sure.  Many rural areas are being served by the internet, but having service at the speed of "Dial up" is really not that efficient, especially when it is sporadic.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

Then move.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sure.  Many rural areas are being served by the internet, but having service at the speed of "Dial up" is really not that efficient, especially when it is sporadic.



It is still probably way more efficicient getting your mail on the computer with a dialup connection than waiting 2 weeks to get a letter....


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## jollyjacktar (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> In southern Ontario you can get a smart phone with 5gb data and unlimited Canada and US calling for 45 per month.  Cheaper than a Bell landline.



Ahem, what about the rest of us poor bastards who don't live in the centre of the universe?


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

Decide what's important.  If your location is most important, accept the additional costs of living there.

And if you're in the Reg F, push your MP to get a realistic, regularly updated PLD.


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## George Wallace (11 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> It is still probably way more efficicient getting your mail on the computer with a dialup connection than waiting 2 weeks to get a letter....



I guess you missed the "SPORADIC" in that statement.  You aren't getting any email until your service provider ensures you can make a connection and keep it.

I have a few friends who have retired to rural areas in PEI, population of whole province of around 100K, and they have really poor service, often complete loss of service, from their providers.  One of those providers is Bell.  So, in essence, our internet service to many Canadians is just as bad as Canada Post.

As for Canada Post going the route of the national railways of the 1960's when they concentrated on freight and let passenger service disappear (Another failure in my eyes and lack of forward vision); Canada Post with its hopes of saving itself with its parcel delivery service may be nothing more than a wet dream.  There are something like 2,000 Parcel Delivery companies in Canada.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

So, they chose to retire in a rural area with poor internet connectivity, but expect urban areas to subsidize the post office to enable their lifestyle choice.

Maybe they should have thought about that when making their choice?


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## Oldgateboatdriver (11 Jul 2016)

Dapaterson:

My wife's mother lives in Hamilton (last I checked, a pretty large city in Southern Ontario  ). In her area of the City, they are still on dial-up.

Here, where my wife and I live, we are in what is defined as the Montreal Metropolitan Area, not on the outer edges but near the mid-point between downtown Montreal and the edge. We just got high speed a year and a half ago when Bell finally installed optic fibre in our sector.

So don't give us that crap.

And if you want everybody to live in the dense urban area of Greater Toronto - Then fine, but you better learn to go hungry.

Farmers Rule !!!


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## jollyjacktar (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Decide what's important.  If your location is most important, accept the additional costs of living there.
> 
> And if you're in the Reg F, push your MP to get a realistic, regularly updated PLD.



Well, well, well that's really realistic... not!  Reality is the majority of your fellow citizens are not "blessed" to live in God's Green Acres that comprises Southern Ontario.  Most of these folks have no choice in the matter either.  Small wonder why the ROC dislikes the centre of the universe as much as they do with that sense of entitlement on display.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I guess you missed the "SPORADIC" in that statement.  You aren't getting any email until your service provider ensures you can make a connection and keep it.
> 
> I have a few friends who have retired to rural areas in PEI, population of whole province of around 100K, and they have really poor service, often complete loss of service, from their providers.  One of those providers is Bell.  So, in essence, our internet service to many Canadians is just as bad as Canada Post.
> 
> As for Canada Post going the route of the national railways of the 1960's when they concentrated on freight and let passenger service disappear (Another failure in my eyes and lack of forward vision); Canada Post with its hopes of saving itself with its parcel delivery service may be nothing more than a wet dream.  There are something like 2,000 Parcel Delivery companies in Canada.



I have been to pretty remote places in my life.  In the last 10 years, I was always able to get a connection good enough to receive and send emails.  I don't by the argument of internet being unavailable.  All of PEI is served by Bell on their LTE network.  You can get mobile internet with Bell for 10$ a month for up to 100 MB of data (should be plenty if all you are doing is emails)...


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, they chose to retire in a rural area with poor internet connectivity, but expect urban areas to subsidize the post office to enable their lifestyle choice.
> 
> Maybe they should have thought about that when making their choice?



Like Wynne gave rural folk a choice to to subsidize Toronto's subway or Ontario's green plan disaster?


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I have been to pretty remote places in my life.  In the last 10 years, I was always able to get a connection good enough to receive and send emails.  I don't by the argument of internet being unavailable.  All of PEI is served by Bell on their LTE network.  You can get mobile internet with Bell for 10$ a month for up to 100 MB of data (should be plenty if all you are doing is emails)...



I also have been to some pretty remote places. Just in North Central Ontario alone, you'll get no wifi, nor will you get a cell signal.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I also have been to some pretty remote places. Just in North Central Ontario alone, you'll get no wifi, nor will you get a cell signal.



Where in North Central Ontario.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2016)

OGBD: Wind mobile is in Hamilton. $45 per month for 5Gb data plus unlimited CAN/US calling and texting.  No need for Rogers or Bell high speed internet.  More than enough for email & some light browsing.  As for Montreal: Cable and DSL would have been available before fibre to the door, either one of which can provide high speed internet access.

JJT: If you choose to live somewhere with limited services, you've made a choice.  Don't expect me to subsidize your lifestyle choices.  If you're in the military and ordered to move somewhere, well, that's why I pointed at PLD to equalize things.


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## George Wallace (11 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> .......  All of PEI is served by Bell on their LTE network.  ...



Coverage as a statistic is one thing.  Actual service is another.  Sorry, but you can tell that to my friend who is not getting the service; internet or technical, from Bell that you assume he is getting.

Now back to Canada Post and its woes.


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## jollyjacktar (11 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> JJT: If you choose to live somewhere with limited services, you've made a choice.  Don't expect me to subsidize your lifestyle choices.  If you're in the military and ordered to move somewhere, well, that's why I pointed at PLD to equalize things.



You just don't get it, do you?  Not everyone in Canada has a choice of where they live.  As for PLD, don't make me shit myself laughing.  We get as much say in that as we do in the other pay and benefits we receive.  Nada.  We get what they allow us to have, nothing more, unless you're the top echelon where you get a chance to negotiate your salary.  And those benefits we do get are getting winnowed down all of the time.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Where in North Central Ontario.



Just south of Nippising for one. The various companies web sites show coverage, but it's not there. Similar north east of Wawa, on Hwy 101.


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## SupersonicMax (11 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Just south of Nippising for one. The various companies web sites show coverage, but it's not there. Similar north east of Wawa, on Hwy 101.



Is there actually people living there or is it just passing on the highway?


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jul 2016)

There's people up there, scattered but there.


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## PMedMoe (11 Jul 2016)

Geez...I was referring to Drayton Valley, AB where there _may_ be data available but "personal" Wifi hasn't made it to the farm yet.  And I'm also referring to people who moved out there long before there were personal computers and cell phones.

Tough crowd.....    :


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## Teager (11 Jul 2016)

The future is coming. Google and Facebook are testing drones and solar planes that will beam 5G Internet using lasers. I can't find the exact article but Facebook has an inexpensive device you can strap to any tree its weather proof and you can get 2G internet. It's mostly created for Africa as a cheap means to access the Internet but might be useful in remote areas of Canada.

http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/google-project-skybender-5g-internet-planes/


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## runormal (11 Jul 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Dapaterson:
> 
> My wife's mother lives in Hamilton (last I checked, a pretty large city in Southern Ontario  ). In her area of the City, they are still on dial-up.
> 
> ...



I grew up on a farm, and I do not believe that Hamilton only has Dial-Up. I would like you to provide me with either a postal code/municipality so that I can look up the coverage. Because my small town of 900 peoples 2 and half Hours south west of Ontario has at least 5 mbps, and the local company was talking about laying fibre. My dad who lives outside of the town (10 minutes) on a farm has highspeed. (Speed unknown, but fast enough to stream hockey games)

What did you have before your optic fibre was laid? I'm sure you had at least 256 kb/s..


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## GAP (11 Jul 2016)

Ask the truckers & they will tell you. NW Ontario is a dark void for cell service let alone wifi, until you are near a community.


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Is there actually people living there or is it just passing on the highway?


People do live there.

And there's more "not many people, lotsa geography" spots across Canada outside northern Ontario, too.  The economies of scale, though, are in the major urban centres.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (12 Jul 2016)

runormal said:
			
		

> I grew up on a farm, and I do not believe that Hamilton only has Dial-Up. I would like you to provide me with either a postal code/municipality so that I can look up the coverage. Because my small town of 900 peoples 2 and half Hours south west of Ontario has at least 5 mbps, and the local company was talking about laying fibre. My dad who lives outside of the town (10 minutes) on a farm has highspeed. (Speed unknown, but fast enough to stream hockey games)
> 
> What did you have before your optic fibre was laid? I'm sure you had at least 256 kb/s..



Well done Runormal. You my friend are wiser to the ways of the world (and Southern Ontario) than Dapaterson and spotted the nuance that should have been in my post (but weren't because I wanted to stick it to Dp.).

Let's start with my mother-in-law. While she lives in Hamilton (as that city now exists after the amalgamation of 2001) her farm is located in the large tract of farmlands located North-West of the main urban area, in what was the country part of the town of Flamborough in the old Hamilton-Wentworth county. She is about 14 Km from downtown Hamilton (King and James) as the bird flies. Cable tv doesn't reach there, as she is about 4Km out of any urban area, and she is too far from the telephone exchange to get high speed so no DSL. She got nice notice from Bell last Christmas season, indicating they will be installing finer optic cable in the course of the summer.

My point to Dapaterson, however is that he can't compare what's available in urbanized areas with the non-urbanized areas, even in Southern Ontario. We have friends whose farms, on the North side of Toronto, have a beautiful view of TO's skyline about 15 kms away. On a clear day you can see each skyscraper individually and name them. Yet, they need satellite for TV reception and the only high speed internet they get is on their cell phone network.

But here's the thing (and take that Dapaterson  ), you can't run heavy use of your computer or a home wi fi over the cell phone service. And contrary to Dp's position that a cell phone is all you need for emails and light browsing, that position is that of a young person ignorant of the effects of age. When he hits 55 and older, he will realize that your sight is not what it used to be and that those F@^%$& small characters are harder and harder to read (in fact, I believe this is what led to the development of the tablets: the first generation of portable computer geeks was getting older and couldn't read their ever smaller cell phones screens), and after 65, limitations of motor control in the hands make doing many things with your hands more difficult. So, typing on those little cell phone touch-screens keyboards becomes an exercise in total frustration (especially when coupled with auto-correct trying to read your mind). This is not a "generation" thing. It has nothing to do with lack of knowledge of computers or cell phones. It's just a matter of aging and we will go through the same thing (I have already started - my sight is not what it used to be and I am getting to hating small screens and characters). So Dapaterson (and many if not most of us) need to learn lessons in aging before imposing this on older people as the way to communicate with the government.

As for me here, near Montreal, I was in the same situation as my mother-in-law: 20 Km from downtown but out of the range of my phone exchange for DSL, and, at 2Km out of the village did not have cable TV (sorry, Dp!). In fact, the cable company would have been happy to provide me with the service so long as I agreed to pay the 2 Km of cable and its installation along the way all by myself (I think their quote was for almost 3,000$). Of course, they were then to be free to offer the service to anyone between my place and the village at  no compensation to me.


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## dapaterson (12 Jul 2016)

Use your cell phone as a WiFi hotspot, so you can browse on your computer.

And get a bunch of friends along the route and split the cost of the cable install.

Problems solved.


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## dapaterson (12 Jul 2016)

Today's "customer service" from Canada Post:

1x Dear Occupant letter addressed to my house delivered to me.

1x small package for the house with the same number one street over, delivered to me.

1x magazine for the house two doors down, delivered to me.


You'd think workers asking for more money & better conditions might spend some of their efforts on customer service to win over customers.


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## George Wallace (12 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Today's "customer service" from Canada Post:
> 
> 1x Dear Occupant letter addressed to my house delivered to me.
> 
> ...



Don't tell me that this is a first for you?  I have it happen quite often.  Correct number.  Wrong Street.  Wrong Postal Code.  But that isn't Canada Post.....It is the Contractors they hire to fill the Super Boxes.

OH!..... Just went to Services Ontario for the renewal of my OHIP and Dvr Lic.  Both are delivered by mail.  One more thing that has not been modernized......No drone delivery setup yet.  No "Transporter" to zap it into my palm.  No email and "print your own" official documents.......Although you can do that with a temporary Boating Lic. ....... as you wait for the official one to arrive via Canada Post.


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## mariomike (12 Jul 2016)

I remember one mailman when I was still living with my parents. Because of shiftwork, I used to be home a lot and got to know the guy. Let him drink the old man's booze and use our swimming pool. Why not get along if you get good customer service? A job like that would probably drive anyone to drink. 
Back then, we used to rely on our mailmen more than we do now. 


Another letter from that school goes to that kid’s house, in the &%$#ing oven you’re gonna go, head first.

That was it. No more letters from truant officers. No more letters from school. In fact, no more letters from anybody. Finally after a couple of weeks, my mother went to the post office and complain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL2BfupSjWE


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## SupersonicMax (12 Jul 2016)

Xplorenet provides Satellite Internet for less than 50$ a month for pretty much any comunity in Canada. 

As for driver's license & al, there is absolutely no reason why the full document can't be given right on the spot after you take your picture.  Otherwise, they can always send it as a small parcel through Canada Post or any other delivery services (FedEx, UPS, etc).

We pay way too much for a service that is largely redundant with today's technology.  We bank online, we file our taxes online, we file claims online. We can do pretty much any buisness that was done through mail before with emails today.

I still don't buy that internet is not available in a significant amount of communities in Canada.  If there is Internet in Inuvik and Resolute Bay, there better be internet anywhere south...


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## George Wallace (12 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> As for driver's license & al, there is absolutely no reason why the full document can't be given right on the spot after you take your picture.



Sorry....I am not going to stand in their office for 8 to 14 weeks waiting for them to process a digitally enhanced card.


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jul 2016)

Then, as I said, if it is impossible to produce it on the spot, they can use parcel delivery services to send it.


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## Bird_Gunner45 (13 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Don't tell me that this is a first for you?  I have it happen quite often.  Correct number.  Wrong Street.  Wrong Postal Code.  But that isn't Canada Post.....It is the Contractors they hire to fill the Super Boxes.
> 
> OH!..... Just went to Services Ontario for the renewal of my OHIP and Dvr Lic.  Both are delivered by mail.  One more thing that has not been modernized......No drone delivery setup yet.  No "Transporter" to zap it into my palm.  No email and "print your own" official documents.......Although you can do that with a temporary Boating Lic. ....... as you wait for the official one to arrive via Canada Post.



Ontario could just modernize it's services so that your licence and OHIP are printed in the spot like in NS, NB, and PEI. Or keep a largely obsolete corporation in place.

If Grey-Bruce County in Ontario has Internet available for farms than there's no reason it can't be everywhere.


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Xplorenet provides Satellite Internet for less than 50$ a month for *pretty much any comunity in Canada*.


Except here where I live - plugged in my postal code, and got the attached.  If I can't get it in a community of ~110,000, I'm guessing more remote areas are even less likely to be able to get it.  Here's the coverage list for Ontario - don't see much northwest of Thunder Bay.



			
				Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> If Grey-Bruce County in Ontario has Internet available for farms than there's no reason it can't be everywhere.


Including places with a lot more geography and fewer people?





When the railroad was first built across Canada, it's interesting there didn't seem to be a push for "well, we'll just put 'er where there's loads of people so it'll be sustainable."  Infrastructure is hard to do in lots of Canada - and by "lots", I mean by land mass, not population.  And if you think dinky little places don't really matter, remember this?

Not all of Canada is Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal ...


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## George Wallace (13 Jul 2016)

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> Ontario could just modernize it's services so that your licence and OHIP are printed in the spot like in NS, NB, and PEI. Or keep a largely obsolete corporation in place.



Ontario includes security devices in their cards now, as well as magnetic/optical strips with your info.  Not a simple photo, then apply photo to plastic procedure.  Other provinces will likely soon be following suit.


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ontario includes security devices in their cards now, as well as magnetic/optical strips with your info.  Not a simple photo, then apply photo to plastic procedure.  Other provinces will likely soon be following suit.


And passports?  Same same.


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## Bird_Gunner45 (13 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ontario includes security devices in their cards now, as well as magnetic/optical strips with your info.  Not a simple photo, then apply photo to plastic procedure.  Other provinces will likely soon be following suit.



I would imagine that anything that can be done in a centralized centre could be done anywhere with the proper technology. Ontario has always had that system, and it's always been overly cumbersome.


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jul 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> And passports?  Same same.



My last passport was delivered to me through FedEx...


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## larry Strong (13 Jul 2016)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> My last passport was delivered to me through FedEx...




And as someone who uses the post office to ship sales, what would cost me $5.00 to get a bubble wrap envelope to the US without registering it - that would be another $14.00, costs me $42.00 thru FedEx, UPS or who ever...........

My 2¢'s

Cheers
Larry


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jul 2016)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> And as someone who uses the post office to ship sales, what would cost me $5.00 to get a bubble wrap envelope to the US without registering it - that would be another $14.00, costs me $42.00 thru FedEx, UPS or who ever...........
> 
> My 2¢'s
> 
> ...


In the new reality, you can always move to a larger centre with more options, then ...  >


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## George Wallace (13 Jul 2016)

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> I would imagine that anything that can be done in a centralized centre could be done anywhere with the proper technology. Ontario has always had that system, and it's always been overly cumbersome.



Come on now.  Do you hold 404's?  How long did it take to get your 404's?  It is no longer a simple matter of going into Transport and them typing up a set for you.  It is now a bit longer, with contractors doing them in batches.  

As Security concerns grow, so does the implementation of various security measures into our numerous different forms of identification and their processing.  No longer are you able to get all these various forms of ID on the spot.  Some take quite a while to verify and produce.  Admit it; with digitization of our data, and the tightened security in today's world, it takes much more time to process certain documents.....Definitely not the "instantaneous products" that we once dreamed the future would hold.


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## Fishbone Jones (13 Jul 2016)

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> Ontario could just modernize it's services so that your licence and OHIP are printed in the spot like in NS, NB, and PEI. Or keep a largely obsolete corporation in place.



We could, but McWynnety expands the Public Service as much as she possibly can. Union votes buoy her numbers.


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## Bird_Gunner45 (14 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Come on now.  Do you hold 404's?  How long did it take to get your 404's?  It is no longer a simple matter of going into Transport and them typing up a set for you.  It is now a bit longer, with contractors doing them in batches.
> 
> As Security concerns grow, so does the implementation of various security measures into our numerous different forms of identification and their processing.  No longer are you able to get all these various forms of ID on the spot.  Some take quite a while to verify and produce.  Admit it; with digitization of our data, and the tightened security in today's world, it takes much more time to process certain documents.....Definitely not the "instantaneous products" that we once dreamed the future would hold.



I dont admit this is the case at all. With technology that exists and technology that will exist in the future there is no reason why security cannot be delivered more rapidly. I think most of these are more a mix of people defending their jobs and people who refuse to get on the technology wagon. We need to look to the future, and Canada Post is certainly not doing that... more trying to pretend like we're still in the 1960's. 

As for internet- if we're dumping millions/billions into infrastructure than perhaps this is something that should be high on the infrastructure priority list? Fibre Optic wire and internet infrastructure is as, if not more, important for economic growth than many of the other projects ongoing, particularly pork barrel social infrastructure.


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## George Wallace (14 Jul 2016)

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> ................ if not more, important for economic growth than many of the other projects ongoing, particularly pork barrel social infrastructure.




There we go......This is probably the biggest problem.....Pork Barrelling on all fronts detracting from actual constructive and efficient infrastructure and service.


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## The Bread Guy (22 Jul 2016)

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> ... As for internet- if we're dumping millions/billions into infrastructure than perhaps this is something that should be high on the infrastructure priority list? Fibre Optic wire and internet infrastructure is as, if not more, important for economic growth than many of the other projects ongoing, particularly pork barrel social infrastructure.


Ontario's Chamber of Commerce agrees ...


> On Thursday, July 19th, 2016 the Ontario Chamber of Commerce (OCC) released an open letter to Premier Kathleen Wynne calling on the government to commit dedicated provincial infrastructure funds to developing and expanding broadband infrastructure in remote and rural areas of the province where there is simply not a case for private sector investment.
> 
> With record investments being made by government in transit and transportation, we are calling upon the provincial government to recognize, through infrastructure dollars, that access to high speed internet is similarly essential for Ontario businesses to compete in the 21st century global economy ...


Open letter attached.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Jul 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Ontario's Chamber of Commerce agrees ...Open letter attached.



Only if the liberals can funnel millions, in graft, to their friends. Then it'll be full steam ahead.


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## runormal (23 Jul 2016)

Got this today from RBC

The longer Canada Post/CUPW screws around negotiates the worst it will be for both parties.



> Canada Post Service Disruption – Potential Impact
> There continues to be uncertainty surrounding a possible labour disruption at Canada Post. If there is an interruption in mail delivery, you may not receive your banking documents or statements, or be able to mail payments via Canada Post. RBC® Online Banking and the RBC Mobile1 app are tools you can use to continue to do your banking throughout a postal disruption, including bill payments and deposits.
> To avoid any interruptions or missed payments, you may also want to sign up for electronic statements and make bill payments through our online or mobile banking services.
> Sign up for eStatements today!
> ...


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## CougarKing (30 Aug 2016)

Finally...

Canadian Press



> *Canada Post, union reach deal*
> Canadian Press
> 2 hrs ago
> 
> ...


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