# EXERCISE - Military jet "crashes" as army trg preps soldiers for northern duties



## HavokFour (4 Feb 2011)

*Military jet crashes as army training mission preps soldiers for northern duties*​


> A military jet has crashed into a wooded field in a rural area east of Montreal, injuring the pilots and severely wounding a passenger and two farmers on the ground.
> 
> Screaming residents stumble through thigh-high snow, trying to get to their friends as smoke pours from the fuselage. One man lies face down, blood spattering the snow around his body.
> 
> ...



Article


(Moderator edit to clarify title)

Whoops, sorry Mods!  :facepalm:


----------



## 57Chevy (4 Feb 2011)

A misleading headline
Same article:
Nordic Warriors invade Farnham
Exercise prepares soldiers for frosty Arctic mission
link

Photo 1:
Soldiers from the 5th Service Battalion march during a search-and-rescue training exercise at the Farnham base on Thursday, preparing for a large Arctic exercise this month in James Bay.
Photograph by: Dario Ayala, Montreal Gazette

Photo 2:
Soldiers from the 5th Service Battalion of Canada carry an actor in a stretcher as they take part in a "mass casualties" military exercise during the Soldat Givre training operation at the Farnham military training site in Farnham, 60 kilometres south-east of Montreal, on Thursday. The military training is a preparation for the larger training operation Guerrier Nordique to take place near Radison between the months of February and March.
Photograph by: Dario Ayala, Montreal Gazette

                                       (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## Franko (5 Feb 2011)

Ummm, yeah. The first troops they get out the door to conduct SAR is the Service Btns....right.         :

Regards


----------



## Michael OLeary (5 Feb 2011)

Support to major air disaster (MAJAID) operations within the CF involves more than SAR.  Once the crash site has been identified there are a lot more tasks to be done than the deployed SAR techs can handle; and things like wider search of the crash area, carrying of stretchers, site security and support tasks do not require any particular trade.


----------



## Kiwi99 (5 Feb 2011)

Ugh, touques under helmets!  I hate touques under helmets!  Especially when the issue green balaclava is available.  But nooooo, lets all put touques under our helmets and raise the helmet so far up on our heads that it offers no protection at all!    I hate touques under helmets!


----------



## PuckChaser (5 Feb 2011)

You don't need toques to raise the helmets up.... I've seen guys adamant that they're wearing the right size of helmet when the ear protection is sitting above their ear.


----------



## Armymedic (5 Feb 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Ummm, yeah. The first troops they get out the door to conduct SAR is the Service Btns....right.         :
> 
> Regards



Most likely not, not even in the MAJAID role, but a well conceived exercise scenario such as this could involve some very complex problems for every section of a Service Bn (perhaps, except the ammo section) where their skills might be tested.

Realistically, in the winter weather, as proven by the Uruguayan soccer team in 1972 and studies into the subject since, anyone who is injured will quickly die of hypothermia even if their injuries are not life threatening. We are talking a matter of hours.

So, is this ex scenario a realistic training event for that unit? IMHO, not in the slightest, unless through shear coincidence they happen to be exercising within a day's skidoo ride of a crash.


----------



## timma (5 Feb 2011)

If you wear a lightweight fleece toque under your helmet and adjust the leather band, the helmet sits fine on your head.


----------



## medicineman (5 Feb 2011)

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> Realistically, in the winter weather, as proven by the Uruguayan soccer team in 1972 and studies into the subject since, anyone who is injured will quickly die of hypothermia even if their injuries are not life threatening. We are talking a matter of hours.



The Herc crash in Alert sort of disproves that though - there were survivors that were pretty seriously injured that are still alive today.  Some pers did succumb to hypothermia, but others were likely saved it.  Mind you, they were only on the ground about 48 hours or so IIRC.  Sounds a little like the scenario they're playing out was based on that crash.

 :2c:

MM


----------



## Armymedic (5 Feb 2011)

But in the case of the Alert Herc, everyone was prepared and somewhat dressed for the cold. On a civ airliner, that would not be the case.


----------



## Strike (5 Feb 2011)

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> But in the case of the Alert Herc, everyone was prepared and somewhat dressed for the cold. On a civ airliner, that would not be the case.



I beg to differ.

There may have been extra clothing, but it was packed away and very few people were wearing anything heavy.  That's one of the reasons that it's now mandatory to dress for the weather instead of simply carrying clothing for the weather.  Bunny pants and parkas are no good to you if they are stored at the back of the plane when that part of the plane is now located several hundred feet away from where your part of the wreckage is in a snow storm.



Edited to compose my thoughts.


----------



## aesop081 (5 Feb 2011)

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> But in the case of the Alert Herc, everyone was prepared and somewhat dressed for the cold. On a civ airliner, that would not be the case.



Far from it. That crash resulted in a completed change in how we did buiness WRT clothing and survival equipment.


----------



## Halifax Tar (5 Feb 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Ummm, yeah. The first troops they get out the door to conduct SAR is the Service Btns....right.         :
> 
> Regards



I'm interested to know why you think a SVC BTN couldn't undertake this task ? With support from a Fd AMB.


----------



## old medic (5 Feb 2011)

It happened in 2005 with the snowbird 8 crash in Thunder Bay.  The reserve units were also used for crash site
security.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (6 Feb 2011)

Things may have changed drastically in the over 25 years since I was first associated with MAJAID response, but one of the principles used back then was to make use of local resources first.  While the crash of an aircraft in the north may be an easily identified incident upon which to base an northern exercise scenario (as well as being easier for the media to understand), it would (in my opinion) be unlikely that a svc bn would form the initial follow-on response (SAR is the initial response).  In those "old days" one of the primary MAJAID response bases was Edmonton (it was an AIRCOM base back then) with Trenton being the other.  Both bases stocked dedicated MAJAID equipment and stores and base sections/personnel were already identified for this duty and occasionally exercised.  If there was a need for a greater effort than was available from the response bases (and CABC back then) army units were designated to assist - this was primarily elements from fd amb and infantry units.

During my first OPEVAL in which MAJAID was exercised, the scenario was the inevitable crash of an airliner in the far north.  As the various elements of the response was being prepped for loading, there were obvious deficiencies between the available airlift capacity and the "ideal" number of pers that the elements wanted to deploy.  I very quickly learned that "military" pers are not absolutely needed for every single function.  Many of the activities that require only "unskilled" labour (like stretcher bearers) can be done by locals engaged at the forward operating base (a community with an airfield near the crash site).  If additional bodies are needed at the crash site beyond what is provided by the primary response, it is likely that need would be mostly for medically trained pers and those who can provide austere living support.


----------



## Zoomie (8 Feb 2011)

MAJAID is in Trenton - they have members from the CPC that jump in with the kit.


----------

