# Medics requiring to maintain a license



## Dushana72

Hi all,

I heard from my Sgt earlier in the year that CF Medics are now being required to actually maintain a licence in a province. Is there anyone who can shed a little more light on this? Rumor? Or is there some source I can read?

Thanks all.

Will Johnson


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## MedCorps

I was talking to the Branch CWO about this a few weeks ago and then asked some questions to some of the HQ people in the know.  

The question was being asked if Med Techs should be compelled to keep their PCP license current after it is earned and paid for as part of their QL3 program. It turns out when the Credentials Cell did an audit that only 17% of Med Techs had kept their license current after the initial licensing event in BC or QC during QL3. This came as a surprise to a whole bunch of senior officers. 

So two questions were asked: 

1) Why are Med Techs not maintaining their license, even with the TB/CF offering to pay for it? 
2) What would be the cost to get all of those that had expired back to full license if they make this a requirement of the MOS. 

The answer to #1 was varied based on a bunch of factors.  Some of them really good reasons, some of them piss poor reasons.  
The answer to #2 was a crap load of $$$. 

As such the Surgeon General decreed (I have seen the minutes) that Med Techs will only be required to gain a license once, as part of their initial QL3 program (although Quebec is a slightly different story right now, but the same concept exists). This meets the requirements of the last Auditor General Report and Chief of the Review Services reports to clinically professionalize the NCM MOSIDs within the CFHS using civilian standards.  

After this initial licensing on the QL3 the Med Tech can choose to keep their license current if they wish *and * if service requirements allow. The TB/CF will pay for it and will support "on car" rotations via the Maintenance of Clinical Readiness Program (MCRP).  If they do not maintain their license it is not the end of the world and core Med Tech competencies will be maintained via the non "on car" facets of the MCRP and at periodic mandatory visits to the 1 Canadian Field Hospital Simulation Centre in Valcartier. I am told that the program at the Sim Centre will become much more formalized with visits being tracked and various competency rated on a GO / NO GO metric. 

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions here or by PM.

MC


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## mariomike

To add to the above, I received this reply in August 2012 from the Toronto Emergency Medical Services Education & Development Unit:

"Back in 2007 the military approached the MOHLTC to accept their QL5 Med Techs if trained at JIBC, to be permitted to challenge the AEMCA. In the past the Ministry has permitted this, but has required an additional of 120 hrs minimum of field placement in Ontario. 

To obtain these hours you could participate in a Med Tech Field Placement Program. Currently there are several Military Med Tech Field Placement Programs that have been implemented across Ontario. This Program offers Med Techs both QL3 and QL5 the opportunity to obtain these 120 hours, in addition to having the ability to be Temporarily Certified to perform Medical Directives consist ( sic ) with that of a Primary Care Paramedic in Ontario while doing their ride alongs. Some services that currently offer this program are: Ottawa, Toronto, Renfrew County, and possibly Simcoe County. There may be a couple other services that offer it as well.

In the past three years we have offered this program to 57 Med Techs. 

The process generally calls for writing the AEMCA in addition to possibly a practical skills test (has been done in the past - but not always depending on qualifications and education)."

Edit to add:

There was an agreement posted on the CFHS website between the CF and the Ontario MOHLTC allowing QL5's to challenge the AEMCA exam. 

The link no longer works.

"Recognition of QL5A & Challenge of AEMCA exam:

Reference A is a confirmation letter by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, Emergency Health Services Branch, recognizing the CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam, all QL5 Med Techs are encouraged to prepare for and write this exam with approval through their Chain of Command.  Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario."

Paramedicine is provincially regulated. Requirements and issue of a licence to practice are set by the individual regulators.


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## Ciskman

Interesting. I never realized that medics actually earned their licenses on their QL3s. Are medic protocols the same as a BC PCP?


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## MedCorps

Currently Med Techs more or less use the protocols that they have been trained in, be it BC or QC or the standardized sets learned at the Canadian Forces Health Services Training Centre or during the civilian contacted Advanced Emergency Care module of the QL5A qualification.  

The existing Med Tech protocols are currently being reviewed and revised, but the PCP protocols will be a hybrid between the BC and QC protocols with the prime factor being that they meet the needs of the CF.  In many cases they will be very close if not exact copies when said protocols meet the CF needs.  After all that is how the Med Techs were trained initially and if they work in BC / QC they cannot be all that bad right  :nod:. Surprisingly the protocols are pretty close in most cases. 

However there will be a number of protocols that will not be BC or QC driven.  This will be then the scope of practice exceeds the civilian PCP National Occupational Competency Profile or when there are clear operational / geographic reasons. 

When Med Techs are working on-car with a civilian service as part of MCRP they will be expected to use the protocols of the service for which they are guests.  

MC


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## Ciskman

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Currently Med Techs more or less use the protocols that they have been trained in, be it BC or QC or the standardized sets learned at the Canadian Forces Health Services Training Centre or during the civilian contacted Advanced Emergency Care module of the QL5A qualification.
> 
> The existing Med Tech protocols are currently being reviewed and revised, but the PCP protocols will be a hybrid between the BC and QC protocols with the prime factor being that they meet the needs of the CF.  In many cases they will be very close if not exact copies when said protocols meet the CF needs.  After all that is how the Med Techs were trained initially and if they work in BC / QC they cannot be all that bad right  :nod:. Surprisingly the protocols are pretty close in most cases.
> 
> However there will be a number of protocols that will not be BC or QC driven.  This will be then the scope of practice exceeds the civilian PCP National Occupational Competency Profile or when there are clear operational / geographic reasons.
> 
> When Med Techs are working on-car with a civilian service as part of MCRP they will be expected to use the protocols of the service for which they are guests.
> 
> MC



Thanks. I only ask because Sar Techs also do their program through the JIBC(same as Med Techs?) and are not required to earn a licence at any point. The protocols do change after course however, I believe they reflect the BC PCP protocols very closely (It's been awhile). There are some "advanced" skill/protocols added at the QL6A level that fall somewhere in between PCP and ACP as far as I can tell. 

Anyways, point being that I am curious as to why Med Techs are required to earn a licence and Sar Techs are not required...especially since Sar Techs patients are 99.9% Canadian civilians.


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## Adam

Medics are not maintaining their PCP licence for the same reason that they are not completing their yearly MCSP requirements.  And its not because Med techs lack motivation or drive.  

I have been a Medic for 11 years.  I'm on my 6Th posting, and have been licensed as a PCP in 5 different provinces.  I have spent thousands of dollars trying to maintain a licence but I have finally given up.   11 years in, and I have only had 2 shifts on Amb through the MCSP program. 

Until the CoC gets serious about providing real MCSP for Medics (that EHS in Canada will honor),  most Medics will not be able to maintain a licence.

What I would really like to know is, how CF Nurses can maintain their licence?  They face the same constraints as Medic, Don't they?


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## Dushana72

So the fact remains that Med Techs are NOT actually required to maintain their license beyond earning it once at JIBC, and the French equivalent?


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## Armymedic

Adam said:
			
		

> What I would really like to know is, how CF Nurses can maintain their licence?  They face the same constraints as Medic, Don't they?


No they are not. Their occupational organization has different requirements, and their employment requires them to work outside the military to maintain competency.


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## Ciskman

Adam said:
			
		

> Medics are not maintaining their PCP licence for the same reason that they are not completing their yearly MCSP requirements.  And its not because Med techs lack motivation or drive.
> 
> I have been a Medic for 11 years.  I'm on my 6Th posting, and have been licensed as a PCP in 5 different provinces.  I have spent thousands of dollars trying to maintain a licence but I have finally given up.   11 years in, and I have only had 2 shifts on Amb through the MCSP program.
> 
> Until the CoC gets serious about providing real MCSP for Medics (that EHS in Canada will honor),  most Medics will not be able to maintain a licence.
> 
> What I would really like to know is, how CF Nurses can maintain their licence?  They face the same constraints as Medic, Don't they?



What is a MCSP and what does it entail?


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## Armymedic

Dushana72 said:
			
		

> I heard from my Sgt earlier in the year that CF Medics are now being required to actually maintain a licence in a province. Is there anyone who can shed a little more light on this?



No, Med Techs are not *required* to have a provincial paramedic license.


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## Armymedic

HappyWithYourHacky said:
			
		

> What is a MCSP and what does it entail?



It is called MCR AKA Maintenance of Clinical Readiness now. And if you do not know, it is either because you are not Reg F and/or have not been properly informed by your chain of command.


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## MedCorps

Correct.  Earning it once during the QL3 is the only requirement.  No requirement to continue on with holding a license currently exists. 

I think Adam's comments are good.  That is the reason the MCSP has just been considerably overhauled to the MCRP and that civilian on-car rotations are now and optional versus required (this is second hand info, truth be told I have not looked at the new MCRP in depth, but rather attended a meeting on it and then skimmed the documents).  

The MCRP is much more attainable then the old MCSP is the premise. 

The CF cannot reach universal agreement with all geographically co-located EHS's to allow Med Techs to *meaningful* on car ride along experience. This is the reality of a provincially regulated system that is municipally managed / administered. There have, in some cases, also been union issues I am told.  The CFHS is working hard at securing other MCRP hospital based rotations in all locals through the use of MOUs established by the National CIMIC Cell.  Hospitals seem to be little easier to work with for some reason.  

Agreed, some of the biggest reasons why we only have a 17% maintenance of PCP license rate for Med Techs is operational / training tempo, geographic location of on-car opportunities, local ambulance service pre-requisites for on car rotations, and number of on-car billets available. In the vast majority of cases it is not lack of motivation.  

When the reality hit all of the higher ups the conclusion was obvious that it is just not feasible to have all Med Techs maintain licenses even if they wanted them to do so. In the end there is no occupational specification requirement to do so and attaining a civilian provincial license once at the start of ones career meets the requirements of the CF, the Auditor General, and the Chief of the Review Service. 

I do not know much about the SAR Tech situation / initial qualifications so I do not feel right at commenting.  I can only suggest that SAR Techs may not have come under scrutiny of the Auditor General / CRS over the past decade and a half and are not now held to the Accreditation Canada standard for health care organizations. 

Nursing Officers / Medical Officers / Pharmacy Officers / Social Work Officers / Physiotherapy Officers are much smaller in total numbers per MOS then Med Techs and are required by occupational specification, the Auditor General, agreements with various Provincial bodies, a few federal laws, and now importantly Accreditation Canada to maintain a civilian license (in at least one province), hence why it has occurred.  It has been a challenge for some of these groups to maintain their civilian license especially when the deployment cycle was high. It has been easier (in most cases) to transfer one of these licenses from province to province and once you are licensed in the province getting you into a hospital / clinical placement that is in the geographical location of your posting  is not all that difficult for the CIMIC folks and it can usually occur with a phone call. Many of these professionals are also moonlighting which has helped things. 

Good conversation.  

MC


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## MedCorps

HappyWithYourHacky said:
			
		

> What is a MCSP and what does it entail?



MCSP is the Maintenance of Clinical Skills Programme.  It is now defunct.  It had been replaced by the MCRP, which is the Maintenance of Clinical Readiness Programme.  

It is a formal, soon to be better tracked program that is used to ensure that health care professionals (including Med Techs) in the Canadian Forces Health Services keep their clinical skills sharp and ready to be used should they be required either within Canada or while deployed. 

MC  

Edit: to clearly indicate MCSP is now defunct.


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## Ciskman

MedCorps said:
			
		

> MCSP is the Maintenance of Clinical Skills Programme.  It is not defunct.  It had been replaced by the MCRP, which is the Maintenance of Clinical Readiness Programme.
> 
> It is a formal, soon to be better tracked program that is used to ensure that health care professionals (including Med Techs) in the Canadian Forces Health Services keep their clinical skills sharp and ready to be used should they be required either within Canada or while deployed.
> 
> MC



Thanks again. I am assuming it is comparable to our MOCOMP. We spend a week a year in a clinical setting(ER and OR) practising our skills. This year we are also potentially throwing in two days on car. All skills and protocols practised are recorded and signed by a preceptor then sent to the JI for assessment and "storage".

Rider Pride. I am not a Medic and it seems there is a difference in the way our trades are run. I find this interesting as we have the same course, taught by the same institution at our base.


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## MedCorps

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> No, Med Techs are not *required* to have a provincial paramedic license.



I will add, just so there is no confusion... 

Med Techs are not *required* to have a provincial paramedic license once they have earned a provincial paramedic license during their initial QL3 PCP training. 

If you do not manage to get your license during your QL3 PCP training, you will not become a Med Tech.  

MC


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## MedCorps

Something else just struck me.... 

This conversation only applies to Reg F Med Techs.  

If you are a Res F Med Tech you might in the very near future (or already) be required to maintain a PCP license.  Failure to do so will result in a revision to the Med A (Medical Assistant) MOS from the Med Tech MOS and the requirement to maintain AMFR II (Advanced Medical First Responder Level II) certification .  

MC

Edit: Spelling


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## Armymedic

HappyWithYourHacky said:
			
		

> Rider Pride. I am not a Medic and it seems there is a difference in the way our trades are run. I find this interesting as we have the same course, taught by the same institution at our base.



Seen...checked your profile.

When you compare, remember that Med Techs are trained initially as basic paramedics at the beginning of their careers with the goal of developing the medic to become a Physician Assistant at the WO level.

You guys are just paramedics who wear bright orange suits with a really cool systems to get to the patient and transport them to the hospital where real medical people can fix them.   (  ;D  just kidding )


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## Ciskman

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> Seen...checked your profile.
> 
> When you compare, remember that Med Techs are trained initially as basic paramedics at the beginning of their careers with the goal of developing the medic to become a Physician Assistant at the WO level.
> 
> You guys are just paramedics who wear bright orange suits with a really cool systems to get to the patient and transport them to the hospital where real medical people can fix them.   (  ;D  just kidding )



Really? That's very cool. What a qual to earn. I'm a little disappointed in myself for not knowing more about your trade given how closely we relate....well at the PCP level anyways.


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## Dushana72

Well, it looks like I will be eating some humble pie....I was so sure I read it in a canforgen that we had to actively maintain a license....oh well. Always wondered what crow tasted like....lol


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## MedCorps

Remember the PCP qualification is only 1/6th of the total QL3 Med Tech medical skill set (although takes up a large chunk of the QL3).  We also have in-patient / casualty holding, primary care, operational medicine, clinic support, and field medical skills that are required of them... 

MC


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## MedCorps

Dushana72 said:
			
		

> Well, it looks like I will be eating some humble pie....I was so sure I read it in a canforgen that we had to actively maintain a license....oh well. Always wondered what crow tasted like....lol



I do not think there is a CANFORGEN on this.  There WAS a Surg Gen AIG message on this indicating all Reg F Med Techs had to earn the PCP qualification at least once.  We still have a number of older QL3's who never bothered to bridge to the new PCP qualification and this AIG was targeted at them.  

MC


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## mariomike

HappyWithYourHacky said:
			
		

> Anyways, point being that I am curious as to why Med Techs are required to earn a licence and Sar Techs are not required...especially since Sar Techs patients are 99.9% Canadian civilians.



Licensure, at least in Ontario, is only required by Flight Paramedics: 
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_000257_e.htm#BK4


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## mariomike

MedCorps said:
			
		

> The CF cannot reach universal agreement with all geographically co-located EHS's to allow Med Techs to *meaningful* on car ride along experience. This is the reality of a provincially regulated system that is municipally managed / administered. There have, in some cases, also been union issues I am told.



It could have something to do with the cost and availability of Field Training Officers ( FTO ).

29 things changed this year as the result of a Coroner's Inquest and $10-million civil suit against Toronto EMS. 

Some of those changes will likely have a "ripple effect" across the province.

#25 was that probies Probationary Paramedics must now be accompanied by an FTO for at least 12 weeks.

That is in addition to precepting paramedic students from the two "farm teams", Humber and Centennial colleges.  



			
				MedCorps said:
			
		

> Hospitals seem to be little easier to work with for some reason.



The department has a long list of SOP's for students. 

These are the two that I recall hearing the most problems with:

• Each Observer, during the course of their Ride-Along will follow the directions given to them by
their host Paramedic crew and other emergency service responders when required. Failure to do
so may immediately end the Ride-Along opportunity and prevent them from taking advantage of
any future opportunities.

• Only one student or observer is permitted to ride with an ambulance crew at a time. If a student
or observer is assigned to a single paramedic who is being partnered with another single
paramedic who also has a student or observer, priority will be given to the student or observer
assigned to the station in which the crew will be working. The other student/observer will be
sent home or re-assigned, where appropriate.


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## Armymedic

To answer the opening post question:

Med Techs are not required to maintain a provincial licence. Hence, the CF will not pay for a Med Tech to hold a provincial licence in the province they are posted to.

Med Techs are allowed to get and maintain a provincial licence, but that expense shall be incurred by the member themselves.


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## mariomike

Saw this in another thread. Figured it better to reply in a necro-thread, rather than start a new one since the topic has already been discussed, and so as not to take the original thread off-topic.



medicineman said:


> BC is/was the worst - their EMS programs were the most insular in the country.  I had a first aid instructor that had been trained as a critical care paramedic in one of the best programs in North America that when he moved there, had to start as an EMA nothing and work his way up.  This was so bad that other provinces wouldn't recognize BC trainining because they wouldn't recognize their's...an issue when the CAF decided to go with JIBC for the paramedic training of CAF Med Techs. The lack of recognition caused issues when everyone had to go do maintenance of competency on local ambulances not in BC.  When I heard they'd go with them, I just shook my head as I saw what was coming.



Paramedic licensure is set by the provincial regulators. I was only familiar with one city, in one province.

In Ontario, to be employed as a PCP, you must first become an AEMCA.

QL5 Med Techs who wish to challenge the AEMCA require an additional of 120 hrs. minimum of on the street field placement in Ontario.


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## Skysix

Adam said:


> Medics are not maintaining their PCP licence for the same reason that they are not completing their yearly MCSP requirements.  And its not because Med techs lack motivation or drive.
> 
> I have been a Medic for 11 years.  I'm on my 6Th posting, and have been licensed as a PCP in 5 different provinces.  I have spent thousands of dollars trying to maintain a licence but I have finally given up.   11 years in, and I have only had 2 shifts on Amb through the MCSP program.
> 
> Until the CoC gets serious about providing real MCSP for Medics (that EHS in Canada will honor),  most Medics will not be able to maintain a licence.
> 
> What I would really like to know is, how CF Nurses can maintain their licence?  They face the same constraints as Medic, Don't they?


Nope. Paperwork mostly and a certain number of practice hours. And $$ of course.


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## dapaterson

Nurses are unconsciously incentivized to leave their profession and become HCAs, because the CAF medical system only cares about doctors.


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## mariomike

> Medics are not maintaining their PCP licence for the same reason that they are not completing their yearly MCSP requirements.





Skysix said:


> Nope. Paperwork mostly and a certain number of practice hours. And $$ of course.





MedCorps said:


> It turns out when the Credentials Cell did an audit that only 17% of Med Techs had kept their license current after the initial licensing event in BC or QC during QL3.


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## Skysix

With regards to keeping a PCP certification current. Alberta is probably the easiest but not the cheapest. PCP has more of a scope of practice than EMR but less than EMT-A. Similarly EMT-P has a wider scope than ACP and marginally less (debateable) than CCP. Tab through to the NOCP and Aberta OCP pages  for better details.









						Home
					

The Alberta College of Paramedics   Regulating the Paramedic Profession Together in the Service of Albertans       The Alberta College of Paramedics   Regulating the Paramedic Profession Together in the Service of Albertans      APPROVED PROGRAMS   Paramedicine education programs in Alberta must...




					abparamedics.com


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## applesoranges

dapaterson said:


> Nurses are unconsciously incentivized to leave their profession and become HCAs, because the CAF medical system only cares about doctors.


What exactly is the incentive?
Could you elaborate? Currently I'm a part of a civilian medical system and what you said sounds about right about what is going on here as well.


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## dapaterson

Ability to progress and get further promotion incentivizes leaving nursing to become an administrator, at the take of Major.

Many more HCA Lieutenant Colonel positions than for nurses


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## applesoranges

dapaterson said:


> Many more HCA Lieutenant Colonel positions than for nurses


Ok, thanks, I misinterpreted HCA in my own context, 'health care aid' instead of admin. Makes sense.


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## medicineman

dapaterson said:


> Nurses are unconsciously incentivized to leave their profession and become HCAs, because the CAF medical system only cares about doctors.


It also has a lot to do with the fact that they (at GoC, Ministerial and CFHS command levels) decided to divest us of our CF hospital system, such that if nurses want to actually nurse, they need to do a specialty prost grad like Mental Health, ICU, OR, Public Health or NP or go the HSO route if they feel they can/should do a command appointment.  New embryonic/baby RN's will do some consolidiation in a hospital near where  they're posted, then end up doing SLDO work at their clinic/Fd Amb or where ever they go,unless they luck out and get an airbase and fly AirEvacs...unless even that's changed since I escaped.


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## dapaterson

CFHS needs a total reset, without Doctors dictating how things should be.


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## applesoranges

dapaterson said:


> CFHS needs a total reset, without Doctors dictating how things should be.


Interesting! So, my humble observations after years in emerg is that we still have a Doctor-centric system, but kinda unofficially. They would tell you all kinds of fairy tales in nursing school about how there is no hierarchy and all health care professions are equal parts of the system. But in reality not so much. We roll with all physicians' temper tantrums, because we are more easily replaceable than them. I'm not bitter about it, fair enough, I appreciate the natural selection. However, would be nice if there was an official ranking in the civi health care lol, no fairy tales.
So, the question is, are Doctors dictating how things should be in CFHS because they are higher in rank or there is some unofficial ambiguity?


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## dapaterson

Doctors created a system where doctors hold higher rank and are in charge.


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## Staff Weenie

dapaterson said:


> Doctors created a system where doctors hold higher rank and are in charge.


The problem, is that in order to pay GDMO and Specialists enough to remain in the CAF, we have to give them very high rank as fast as possible. Even then, and with all benefits factored in, it's barely enough to keep them in. I've seen numerous clinicians at LCol/Col rank who have only the most limited understanding of how the CAF works. If they were only treating patients, or planning/directing clinical care, it wouldn't be so much of a problem. It's when they are trying to do joint or operational planning that it can get dicey. As for Nurses, we could probably cut the number of Reg F positions by almost 50% with virtually no impact on ongoing patient care. Most GDNO work approx 5 yrs max in a clinical role. Then they move into Admin roles - because that is the only way to move past Capt. Many start to experience significant skill fade at that time - even when they do keep their license current. And many do try hard to keep their skills up - the system does not make it easy. I once tried to find two CCNO for a Roto. Out of 14x Reg F CCNO, none were able/willing to deploy - no longer current/pregnant/didn't want to go/I'll quit.... We ended up using Res F CCNO, because they were more clinically current.

The current system is a legacy of Rx2000, and was a result of the SCONDVA Report and Croatia BOI (amongst several cornerstone documents) on the care delivered to CAF personnel. There was also a significant loss of institutional trust, in part due to a revolving door of clinicians  - which led in part to the CDU system. A decision was made that going forward, all CAF HS occupations would hold an equivalent civilian license or certification. That is when the PCP qualified Med Tech appeared in the Reg F. We (at the coal face) knew from the very outset that it was just not sustainable for a variety of reasons. PCP was seen as the one qual that was accepted (mostly) across Canada, allowing our pers to be posted, or employed on DOMOPS without too much difficulty. Reality was very different though, as has been noted above.


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## dapaterson

As always, the CAF's biggest retention problem is who stays...


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## RubberTree

medicineman said:


> unless they luck out and get an airbase and fly AirEvacs...unless even that's changed since I escaped.


AE is only conducted out of Trenton now so you have to really luck out.


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## medicineman

dapaterson said:


> Doctors created a system where doctors hold higher rank and are in charge.


DGHS during Rx 2000 was Lise Mathieu...who was not a doc, but HSO via RN IIRC.   The "Surgeon General" was Scott Cameron, a mere Colonel then...whose 4 rings stacked up were as tall as he was.

Much like in civilian health care, many health care admin positions are/were RN's or other non MD's/retreads from other classifications or CFR'd SNCO's/WO's, who funnily enough, are in charge/command of docs, with the exception of actual medical directorships.  

As for the issue of pulling new MD's into the military and promoting them with minimal if any staff training (LCol specialists that haven't taken any command courses as a for instance), I've always been a firm believer that the CAF should make better use of MMTP - this way the docs aren't being tossed to the wolves right out of residency and into a uniform with minimal military indoctrination.  Seen many "mentors" lead baby docs down the wrong paths, both by their own Sgt's/WO's and regimental/battalion officers from the units they support - having been an officer or NCO going into that would allow the doc to hit the ground running and be able to look at people trying to pull the wool over their eyes and go "Nice try Phuquee".  I have seen that backfire of course - a CM I was a witness for was an MMTP doc that went kinda rogue...


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## Blackadder1916

medicineman said:


> DGHS during Rx 2000 was Lise Mathieu...who was not a doc, but HSO via RN IIRC.   The "Surgeon General" was Scott Cameron, a mere Colonel then...whose 4 rings stacked up were as tall as he was.



Lise was an HCA.  I don't think she was ever an RN or anything else clinical; IIRC she was either a DEO or maybe a civi-U ROTP (back when the most common path for HCA was from the ranks or reclassified from an operational MOC, e.g. combat arms).


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## medicineman

Blackadder1916 said:


> Lise was an HCA.  I don't think she was ever an RN or anything else clinical; IIRC she was either a DEO or maybe a civi-U ROTP (back when the most common path for HCA was from the ranks or reclassified from an operational MOC, e.g. combat arms).


I stand corrected.


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## Fishbone Jones

So, let me see if I have this right.

A medic gets qualified on their 3's.
Registration with the proper provincial entity is paid for.
Renewals are paid for.
Any work outside the military, in the field qualified for, would require that certification.
But they just can't be bothered to spend five minutes on the computer to renew?

Have I got that right?


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## mariomike

Reply #7 in this thread.



> Medics are not maintaining their PCP licence for the same reason that they are not completing their yearly MCSP requirements.  And its not because Med techs lack motivation or drive.
> I have been a Medic for 11 years.  I'm on my 6Th posting, and have been licensed as a PCP in 5 different provinces.  I have spent thousands of dollars trying to maintain a licence but I have finally given up.  11 years in, and I have only had 2 shifts on Amb through the MCSP program.
> Until the CoC gets serious about providing real MCSP for Medics (that EHS in Canada will honor),  most Medics will not be able to maintain a licence.



Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application​


Pea said:


> The issue I've found is that I was licensed in BC upon completion of my PCP. Now I'm posted in Ontario and I asked about challenging the Ontario exam to become licensed here. I was told that the unit will only pay for QL5's to do this. I also haven't received any opportunities for MCSP, and I've been posted for over 2 years now. So now my license in BC has expired and I do not hold any sort of qualification in Ontario. I'd hoped the military would have been more supportive of keeping us Med Tech's licensed so that the training we'd received would be more useful.



Paramedicine is provincially regulated. Requirements and issue of a licence to practice are set by the individual regulators.

This is from August 2012 Toronto Paramedic Services Education & Development Unit.

Maybe the policy has changed since then.



mariomike said:


> "Back in 2007 the military approached the MOHLTC to accept their QL5 Med Techs if trained at JIBC, to be permitted to challenge the AEMCA. In the past the Ministry has permitted this, but has required an additional of 120 hrs minimum of field placement in Ontario.
> 
> To obtain these hours you could participate in a Med Tech Field Placement Program. Currently there are several Military Med Tech Field Placement Programs that have been implemented across Ontario. This Program offers Med Techs both QL3 and QL5 the opportunity to obtain these 120 hours, in addition to having the ability to be Temporarily Certified to perform Medical Directives consist ( sic ) with that of a Primary Care Paramedic in Ontario while doing their ride alongs. Some services that currently offer this program are: Ottawa, Toronto, Renfrew County, and possibly Simcoe County. There may be a couple other services that offer it as well.
> 
> In the past three years we have offered this program to 57 Med Techs.
> 
> The process generally calls for writing the AEMCA in addition to possibly a practical skills test (has been done in the past - but not always depending on qualifications and education)."
> 
> 
> 
> There was an agreement posted on the CFHS website between the CF and the Ontario MOHLTC allowing QL5's to challenge the AEMCA exam.
> 
> The link no longer works.
> 
> "Recognition of QL5A & Challenge of AEMCA exam:
> 
> Reference A is a confirmation letter by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, Emergency Health Services Branch, recognizing the CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam, all QL5 Med Techs are encouraged to prepare for and write this exam with approval through their Chain of Command.  Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario."





Staff Weenie said:


> A decision was made that going forward, all CAF HS occupations would hold an equivalent civilian license or certification. That is when the PCP qualified Med Tech appeared in the Reg F. We (at the coal face) knew from the very outset that it was just not sustainable for a variety of reasons. PCP was seen as the one qual that was accepted (mostly) across Canada, allowing our pers to be posted, or employed on DOMOPS without too much difficulty. Reality was very different though, as has been noted above.





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## Skysix

mariomike said:


> Reply #7 in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application​
> 
> Paramedicine is provincially regulated. Requirements and issue of a licence to practice are set by the individual regulators.
> 
> This is from August 2012 Toronto Paramedic Services Education & Development Unit.
> 
> Maybe the policy has changed since then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Provincial protectionism. BC, Ontario and Quebec have it in spades.


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## medicineman

Fishbone Jones said:


> So, let me see if I have this right.
> 
> A medic gets qualified on their 3's.
> Registration with the proper provincial entity is paid for.
> Renewals are paid for.
> Any work outside the military, in the field qualified for, would require that certification.
> But they just can't be bothered to spend five minutes on the computer to renew?
> 
> Have I got that right?


Some people think the military should pay it for them?


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## mariomike

From an SME ( Major ) "at the coal face".



Staff Weenie said:


> That is when the PCP qualified Med Tech appeared in the Reg F. We (at the coal face) knew from the very outset that it was just not sustainable for a variety of reasons. PCP was seen as the one qual that was accepted (mostly) across Canada, allowing our pers to be posted, or employed on DOMOPS without too much difficulty. Reality was very different though, as has been noted above.


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