# Question on Brownings and Tactical Holsters



## TangoTwoNiner (8 Mar 2006)

Got a question for all the pistol experts out there.

I'm looking to get a new holster - the issue Bianchi holsters are not very good as many people know. I've done a search on previous threads and while the issue of say BlackHawk and Eagle tac rigs were mentioned, my pending question was never addressed.

Since the Browning is not a "widely" used pistol, it rarely shows up on the list of weapon options for new tactical thigh rigs (Beretta's SIG's etc are everywhere...) but as I understand it, the Browning is similar in size to a Colt 45/M1911. For those of you have your own rigs, what rigs do you know work with the Browning and is it a reasonable assumption that a rig that fits the Colt (or other large frame pistols like a 92F/G) will work for the Browning?

Thanks for any help with this.


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## KevinB (8 Mar 2006)

Buy a Safariland 6004.

 They make it for the Browning -- they advertise it will not do cocked and locked carry but with a small half moon on the cover it will.

I posted on this bit before.


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## NL_engineer (8 Mar 2006)

http://www.davesarmysurplus.com/product_info.php?products_id=305

It will fit a Browning


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## KevinB (8 Mar 2006)

I urge people to buy a good holster rather than a passable one.


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## TangoTwoNiner (8 Mar 2006)

Thanks for the advice so far.

I agree that the SafariLand holsters are better but there is also a price issue as well. I had also looked at the BlackHawk SERPA holsters and they are comparable to the SafariLand. 

It's a shame that the Bianchi issue ones have to be such awful pieces of kit. Still the TT one is better than what I have now.


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## NL_engineer (8 Mar 2006)

KevinB said:
			
		

> I urge people to buy a good holster rather than a passable one.



KevinB,
Do you have any more recommendations, because I was going to buy the TT one.


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## KevinB (9 Mar 2006)

They dont make a CQC for the BHP, I dont particularily like non molded holsters - the nylon stretches and and is not as smooth as molded.

TT and others are not bad holsters -- the 6004 is about $90 USD less if you go direct to SL and get a MIL/LE discount...

 The US Army is currently transitioning to 6004's across the board due to issues with the Bianchi -- and it is made for the M9 -- so Imagine the stupidity of whomever ordered a M9 holster (that is also a POS) for the BHP that is smaller and slimer than the M9  :

BladeTech also makes an excellent BHP holster -- for a BHP those are the only two holsters (SL6004 and BladeTech) for the bHP I would recommend --
SL has different models like the 6004 that may be more practical for specific jobs (guys who want a vest mount or belt mount) -- I run my 6004 quite high (only one leg loop and about a inch off my belt line.


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## Franko (9 Mar 2006)

I have to go with Kevin on this one. The SafariLand 6004 is by far the best holster out there for what we need it for.

I've seen others fall apart in Kandahar...getting in and out of vehicles, LAVs and Coyotes takes it's toll on them.

I'd rather spend the money upfront than have to pay for 2 holsters during one tour. 

The issued holster is for troops who work out of an office....period. They don't require a no non-sense pistol strap, and have lots of time to fiddle around trying to draw it from the case.

Mine held up quite nicely....and I'll continue to use it in the future.

Regards


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## mudgunner49 (9 Mar 2006)

Guys,

Buy right - buy once!!!


blake


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## westie47 (13 Mar 2006)

Another great thing about Safariland....Diamondback Tactical sells a MOLLE panel so you can attach the 6004 to your vest/chest rig.  As long as you have PALS webbing. Great for vehicles.  Alot of guys were using the Blackhawk version(CQC) on their vests in A-Stan.


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## MG34 (13 Mar 2006)

I'm giving the SERPA Tactical a try when I don't have my Surfire mounted on my issued BHP,so far the holster has exceeded any expectation and I have not run into any of the so called issues with it's design. The double strap system and moulded leg plate are by far the most comfortable system I have used..way better that the 6004 series for comfort. The BHP locks in very securely,during a series of retention drills the pistol could not be removed,even by those familiar with the system . I've worn it for 12 hours straight with  aloaded pistol without a shift in position of the rig,and in vehicles it rides very well.I even can climb in and out of a LAV III or GWagon without it getting hung up. I,m bringing to Khandahar (along with a HSGI rig for the light mounted if needed). The CQC MOLLE adaptor works for this version as well giving a degree of flexibility allowing the holster to be worn on the leg,belt or mounted on my rig.


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## TangoTwoNiner (14 Mar 2006)

MG34 said:
			
		

> I'm giving the SERPA Tactical a try when I don't have my Surfire mounted on my issued BHP,so far the holster has exceeded any expectation and I have not run into any of the so called issues with it's design.



So BH does make a rig that will take the BHP? I thought that they didn't make a rig specifically for the BHP. What size holster did you get? Same as the M1911/Colt 45?

Thanks for the great advice so far. I've received better intel here than anywhere else on the web.


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## MG34 (14 Mar 2006)

The 1911 SERPA Tactical will fit the BHP very securely,as inded will just about any 1911 moulded or nylon holster.


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## TangoTwoNiner (15 Mar 2006)

That's what I thought.

Thanks!


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## KevinB (16 Mar 2006)

We had a couple guys retro the 6004 to a CQC/Serpa - but they foudn the double leg strap a disaster so they keep the 6004 leg setup (they did not like the shroud on the 6004)

However do to a USASOC/joint unit testing the SERPA that failed it we where recently told that the only US DOS approved leg/thigh holster is the 6004 - and as soon as more come in it will be the only one allowed for use.

Apparently the CQC SERPA locking system seizes in dust/dirt...


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## MG34 (16 Mar 2006)

KevinB: I've heard of that too,but as far as I've seen there have been only a couple cases of that happening. There is plenty of room in the locking mech to allow crap and such to fall out,now if you are rolling around in gravel and suchmaybe. Hell I've jammed up a 6004 as well (combination of gravel and mud),so there are no sacred cows out there as far a holsters go. I'll be abusing the hell out of it prior to my trip to KAF, I'm not into deploying with crap either. As it is the RSM doesn't even want to see me anymore as myself and a few others have been beating the kit issues on him and the CO daily for the last 3 months.


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## westie47 (16 Mar 2006)

Kev, is the company going to start issuing 6004's? It would be about time that they sunk some money into decent kit. I know I saw the Peruvians and Namibs with them.


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## KevinB (16 Mar 2006)

Yup -- they went to the RSO with a shitty hadji holster and he spazzed -- He said buy the fucking 6004 or you dont get guns...


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## westie47 (18 Mar 2006)

So has Global/State dept started issuing the 6004's yet?


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## KevinB (18 Mar 2006)

Come back and find out....  ;D



- I understand they where ordered - but like everythign I would not hold my breath.


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## LordOsborne (10 Oct 2007)

Sorry to revive this thread, but the contents are relevant to my line of inquiry. Amazing what happens when one searches for something, eh?  ;D 

Long story short, I'm looking to get a Serpa 1911 holster for the issue BHP, after having done the CFSAC matches with a nylon setup that I wasn't fully pleased with. I just have one problem: how am I supposed to use the rig? the holster attaches to the "Paddle mount", but i'm totally lost after that. Does the Serpa system require a separate form of rigging, or is there a way to attach it to a PALS leg rig? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

edited to fix typo


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## KevinB (10 Oct 2007)

I have some SEVERE issues with the SERPA.
  I have a BHP 6004 if you want to check it out on loan...


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## MG34 (10 Oct 2007)

I used the SERPA tactical rig while on TF 3-06 and for the pretraining, absolutly zero issues of any kind with the holster. There were no issues with clogging with sand,mud or anything else. I suspect that 90% of the bitching about the SERPA are based on " a friend of a friend", and usually well deserved Blackhawk bashing, well in this case they have got something right.. 
  I carried it through dust and rain storms, with no issues,the retention is excellent better I'd say than the 6004 series and you don't have to cut anythng to carry cocked and locked. 
  The retention system is such that upon drawing the pistol your trigger finger indexes above the trigger guard, right where it sould be I found that during the raw stroke you can can get your hand in a more natural position than with the 6004 as the thumb has only to achieve it's normal place on the grip without doing anything else.
 The SERPA Tactical leg platform is more comfortable than that on the 6004 and no modification is required to achieve this comfort.
     I own and use several 6004/6005 holsters, they are a good rig as well but I deployed with a SERPA and left them at home.


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## Journeyman (10 Oct 2007)

My Serpa Drop-Leg is sitting in the bottom of a barrack box somewhere. I prefer the CQC on my belt when inside, and "molle'ed" (is that a word) to my chest rig when going out; I've had zero problems with it, and it's smooth (and we all know, "smooth is fast"   )

Mind you, I'm also not with an operationally dysfunctional group that's charged people for "improper holsters"  :


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## KevinB (10 Oct 2007)

One of our guys uses the ligth mount one - with the odd hood - seems to work okay.

I'm a spaz, so I like to minimize my chances of incidents - I had no personal problems with the SERPA - but we had two ND's with them with DOS - and they shitcanned them after the FBI etc decerted them.  So from what I saw with the two ND's at the range - both happend on a times draw/turn fire routine - made me leery of using

 Personally I use a Bladetech IWB in civvies - no retension 1M rule   
Jocked up - the 6004 works for me since my 1911, Glock, Sig etc. have X200's 
- I've high cut all mine and run them just below my armor level.


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## LordOsborne (10 Oct 2007)

I've looked at the Safariland, and I think that i'm going to go with the Serpa for no other reason than the draw is more natural, at least to me. I'm still totally lost as to how to wear it as a thigh mount though. Can someone shed some light?


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## Fraser.g (16 Oct 2007)

Now granted, I was a Kafasaurus on my tour but found that this one from OST fit the bill for my time in the sandbox. http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=HO-HSGIDropHolster&Category_Code=HO

The issue one is a total POS even for us behind the wire.  I replaced it as soon as I possibly could.


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## medaid (16 Oct 2007)

Oh yeah, that HSGI one is nice  I played with it in the store... well I touched it... picked it up and set it down and moved on to Safariland stuff  but hey, it was a nice holster I had to admit that!


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## LordOsborne (17 Oct 2007)

Update: I found an Ebay store that had the Serpa holster and the proprietary thigh rig, in OD no less. As far as I know, the paddle mount is for your belt. An added bonus was that since the store was in the US, i actually saved a little money on the price, although to be fair, i ended up coughing those savings right into my shipping fees :blotto:


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## DesertVengeance (27 Oct 2007)

safariland.  HANDS DOWN.  Outstanding holster in every way.  I've yet to be beaten by anyone on a timed draw and i'm not that good.  Transitioning is just ridiculously easy... which is nice when the only other thing your carrying is a C6.  It's comfortable as anything, you could bash that sucker for 20 minutes and unless you hit that release catch that sucker isn't coming out.  The one made for the beretta 92FS fits the browning fine.


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## mudgunner49 (29 Oct 2007)

DesertVengeance said:
			
		

> safariland.  HANDS DOWN.  Outstanding holster in every way.  I've yet to be beaten by anyone on a timed draw and i'm not that good.  Transitioning is just ridiculously easy... which is nice when the only other thing your carrying is a C6.  It's comfortable as anything, you could bash that sucker for 20 minutes and unless you hit that release catch that sucker isn't coming out.  *The one made for the beretta 92FS fits the browning fine.*



I don't know what your definition of "fine" is, but the fit of these holsters is pretty specific.  The Beretta 92 is a large pistola and the BHP is significantly slimmer so I really don't think that it would fit all that well at all.  Unless I personally tested this, I would have to view it as "bad data"...

YMMV (a lot)

blake


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## medaid (29 Oct 2007)

I really doubt that it fits it fine. All of Safariland's holsters are thermal molded around their intended pistols. Even though the BHP MAY in fact fit into the holster, I don't think its retention and stability is as good as it would be if it were holstered in the 6004-1376-121 (with hammer down) or the 6004-76-121.

The fact that the length of either weapons' are not the same also raises the question of whether said holster would be adequate in retaining the pistol. The BHP BBL being 4.625" and the Berreta 92FS BBL being 4.9". This by the way is a direct quote from Safariland's website under the 6004 drop leg holster page here -----> http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6004 The fact is they don't even have the same model number.... leads me to question your statement further. However, maybe someone else who possesses both firearms and the 6004 holster can clear it up and give the final yay or nay.


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## Loachman (29 Oct 2007)

And what's with the colours on these? That page says "Available in Brown Flat Dark Earth, Olive Tactical Green or Black finishes", but further down, where it lists all of the individual models, it only gives "Tactical Black" for each - no other colour options. Are these, in fact, available in OG or Tan, or not?


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## Kendrick (29 Oct 2007)

Some CWO somewhere didn't have any fancy holster, and ordered the entire TF to use Bianchi's POS, and now everyone gets charged left and right for using proper holsters.


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## medaid (29 Oct 2007)

Loachman,

   I think they do come in tan/coyote what ever they wanna call it. You just gotta ask them.


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## MG34 (29 Oct 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I really doubt that it fits it fine. All of Safariland's holsters are thermal molded around their intended pistols. Even though the BHP MAY in fact fit into the holster, I don't think its retention and stability is as good as it would be if it were holstered in the 6004-1376-121 (with hammer down) or the 6004-76-121.
> 
> The fact that the length of either weapons' are not the same also raises the question of whether said holster would be adequate in retaining the pistol. The BHP BBL being 4.625" and the Berreta 92FS BBL being 4.9". This by the way is a direct quote from Safariland's website under the 6004 drop leg holster page here -----> http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6004 The fact is they don't even have the same model number.... leads me to question your statement further. However, maybe someone else who possesses both firearms and the 6004 holster can clear it up and give the final yay or nay.



The holsters are not interchangable, the Browning will drop into the Beretta holster but will not be fully secured as the holster is NOT designed to retain it properly, it about s ill advised as sticking a Browning into a Bianchi UM-84 Holster and making troops use it. It can be done,as can playing in traffic  but neither is a good practice.


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## medaid (29 Oct 2007)

Well that confirms it MG34 has spoken ;D


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## mudgunner49 (29 Oct 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I really doubt that it fits it fine. All of Safariland's holsters are thermal molded around their intended pistols. Even though the BHP MAY in fact fit into the holster, I don't think its retention and stability is as good as it would be if it were holstered in the 6004-1376-121 (with hammer down) or the 6004-76-121.
> 
> The fact that the length of either weapons' are not the same also raises the question of whether said holster would be adequate in retaining the pistol. The BHP BBL being 4.625" and the Berreta 92FS BBL being 4.9". This by the way is a direct quote from Safariland's website under the 6004 drop leg holster page here -----> http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6004 The fact is they don't even have the same model number.... leads me to question your statement further. However, maybe someone else who possesses both firearms and the 6004 holster can clear it up and give the final yay or nay.



Yeah - that too.  I was just making an (admittedly poor) attempt at being PC and mentoring...


blake


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## fletchsd (21 Nov 2007)

This is my first post on this site, I finally feel I have something to say worth something.
I have also been trying out quite a few holsters for the browning.  Here are a few things I have found, and I'll try to stick to comfort, security, and operation under high stress.  (By high stress I mean loss of fine motor skills)
I had the issued Bianchi holster (http://www.bianchi-intl.com/product/Prod.php?TxtModelID=UM84III)  for Roto 8 Op Palladium and although secure, it had several problems.  The dropleg thigh adapter is very stiff and is a poor choice when getting in and out of vehicles and can be uncomfortable.  The big flap makes drawing quickly very difficult and in a high stress situation the little hook on the bottom is hard to manipulate.  Overall it is my last choice.

I then purchased the Blackhawk Omega VI dropleg with thumb break for the browning/1911  (http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=40MLH1&C=C0902) .  Fits the browning great, and the dropleg is more comfortable than the Bianchi, but a good belt is required to attach it to.  The elastic thigh straps are great compared to the in-elastic single Bianchi straps.  Quick draw with the thumb break, HOWEVER, the thumb break strap doesn't work well when the pistol is cocked.  So, drawing is quick, but then you have to ready it, costing time.  Reholstering blind is sometimes difficult but muscle memory practice can fix that.

Next try was the issued black safariland. http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6004 . The thumbreak style is much better with the rotating head than the Omega's strap, and the molded plastic is fantastic for drawing speed.  I really like the comfort of the molded plastic platform that rests against your leg as well.  However, the problem I have with the rotating thumb break is that you are drawing the pistol with your 4 fingers and don't get your thumb around the grip until the band is rotated forward.  This costs very little time, but hey, we are being picky on purpose here right?  On that note, the fit of the browning in the holster isn't perfect too.

The Serpa level 2 tactical thigh (http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=43050&C=C2094)  is what I am using now and for me, is by far the best!  I purchased the dropleg version that is made for the 1911.  One problem.  The pistol fit perfectly, but the slide locking lever pin on the right side sticks out causing the operation of the release to get caught on the pin!  So, easy fix with the gerber.  A small groove cut in the release makes this holster as smooth as butter.  (I'll add a pic of the groove i cut) I like it better than the safariland because your hand is in a perfect grip from the start, the pistol can be readied and on safe in the holster, and your trigger finger is automatically lined up with the trigger guard.  It has a large open top so re-holstering blind is easy.  Comfort wise it is the best!  Big molded plastic back and elastic leg straps are super comfortable and it has two drop down straps from your belt so they don't get in the way of your pocket.  Plus, the LCF is very high with this holster.
I liked it so much that I bought the smaller duty belt version and attached it with malice strips to my tac vest in a cross draw position.  I like the cross draw for quick transition drills and when working in tight spaces.  It is very quick to draw and punch out but I have had it catch on my sling a few times.
I'll be adding pictures of my rig as soon as I take them so you have a better idea.
Overall, I recommend the Serpa to the troops in my coy, the only downside is cost.


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## MG34 (22 Nov 2007)

I've never had to mod a SERPA  to fit the Browning (both belt or tactical thigh mounted), I shudder to say this but it is the only piece of Blackhawk kit I would recommend to anyone.


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## LordOsborne (22 Nov 2007)

What's the beef with Blackhawk? poor quality?


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## fletchsd (22 Nov 2007)

I've only ever used their holsters and they have been great.  Even the nylon canvas holsters are excellent quality.
As for the rest of the gear, I have no experience.


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## KevinB (23 Nov 2007)

Blackhawk 99% of the time = crap.

  I dont like the design of the SERPA - but beyond the design fault  ;D its made well...
(yeah yeah - I know a few guys using them I'm just not a fan)

FWIW - rotating the hood on the 6004 puts your thumb in a good postion to remove the safety on a 1911 or BHP style gun, on a Sig or Glock you have a thumb high grip made ready...

The Bianchi UM-84 holster was a POS from the get go -- I got one in 1990 - when I did not know any better -- I was given an Uncle Mikes tac holster by a nice person two years later, and ran it till 2004 when I started using 6004's
   The 6004 is not perfect - but watching Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn run them last week gives me the idea nothing has really surpased it.

FYI there are TWO models of 6004 one for a readied pistol and one for dumb euro's that dont know the fights over if you dont show up with readied weapons...


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## Laps (18 Apr 2008)

Now that the SMEs have spoken...  Where are good places (both purchase $ and shipping $) to purchase the 6004?  Went to Milarm in Edmonton and was told that SLS holsters are harder to find than Pope sh** these days.

I've already looked at Nicholls and their delivery time is 6+ weeks but the price appears allright at $129.  Any other options???


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## medaid (18 Apr 2008)

DSTactical at New Westminster, BC

www.dstactical.com


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## LordOsborne (18 Apr 2008)

Ebay might also be a good option. I bought my OD Serpa holster from an online store in the US, and aside from the lengthy delay at the border, it was slightly cheaper than buying it at a retail store here.


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