# What if a terrorist set off a nuke in DC ?



## cupper (16 Mar 2012)

Interesting article in today's Washington Post about a report released today by FEMA.

What would the implications be if a 10 Kt bomb were set off in Washington DC.

*Government study predicts the fallout of a nuclear terrorist attack in D.C.*

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-buzz/post/government-study-predicts-the-fallout-of-a-nuclear-terrorist-attack-in-dc/2012/03/16/gIQAF9ERGS_blog.html?hpid=z5



> By Maggie Fazeli Fard
> 
> What would happen if a 10-kiloton nuclear weapon exploded in downtown Washington?
> 
> ...



There is a link to the full report at the end of the article, or you can go here as well.

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/fema/ncr.pdf


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## cupper (16 Mar 2012)

For those not familiar with DC, 16th and K streets NW is 3 to 4 blocks due north of the White House.


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## Stoker (16 Mar 2012)

Doesn't Washington have a series of neutron detectors set up in DC to prevent this from happening?


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## cupper (16 Mar 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Doesn't Washington have a series of neutron detectors set up in DC to prevent this from happening?



That is the rumor.

There was a story in the news a couple of years after 9/11 about test units that were set up in a couple of locations around the National Mall. Seems that they raised a few alarms when people reported strange looking objects left unattended.


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## Stoker (17 Mar 2012)

cupper said:
			
		

> That is the rumor.
> 
> There was a story in the news a couple of years after 9/11 about test units that were set up in a couple of locations around the National Mall. Seems that they raised a few alarms when people reported strange looking objects left unattended.



Makes sense since they have missile batteries set up as well.


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## tomahawk6 (17 Mar 2012)

What if a terrorist set off a nuke in Ottawa or any other major city in the world ? Alot of people would die and others would linger before dying. Ground zero would be a no go zone for a century. I am more concerned by an EMP detonation that would zap our electric grid and turn back the clock to the 50's. In that event maybe millions could die.


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## cupper (17 Mar 2012)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I am more concerned by an EMP detonation that would zap our electric grid and turn back the clock to the 50's. In that event maybe millions could die.



Fortunately there are very limited players that have the capability of launching a nuke to achieve a high altitude detonation needed to create an EMP.


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## dangles (17 Mar 2012)

Just wondering...what does a neutron detector do?


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## cupper (17 Mar 2012)

dangles said:
			
		

> Just wondering...what does a neutron detector do?



It is used to detect the presence of unstable isotopes of radioactive materials through neutron decay. As the radioactive isotope goes from one state to another, it gives off neutrons which in this case can be used as a sign of the presence of a radioactive material.

It doesn't necessarily have to be bomb grade uranium or plutonium, but any radioactive material can be detected, which can be useful in protecting against a "dirty" bomb as well.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Mar 2012)

The country would probably start functioning a heck of a lot better with all those politicians out of the way. :


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## Robert0288 (17 Mar 2012)

Well my place in ottawa probably has lots of lead in the paint.  I'll be fine.


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## DBA (18 Mar 2012)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> What if a terrorist set off a nuke in Ottawa or any other major city in the world ? Alot of people would die and others would linger before dying. Ground zero would be a no go zone for a century. I am more concerned by an EMP detonation that would zap our electric grid and turn back the clock to the 50's. In that event maybe millions could die.



I don't think it would it be a no-go zone for a century. Devastation is not evident today in Japan (1979 article). 

The EMP threat requires a special weapon if it's low yield or a high yield weapon and a delivery system that likely put it out of reach for non-state actors.


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## tomahawk6 (18 Mar 2012)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hsc-scen-1.htm

Casualties	Can vary widely
Infrastructure Damage	Total within radius of 0.5 to 1.0 mile
Evacuations/Displaced Persons	450,000 or more
Contamination	Approximately 3,000 square miles
Economic Impact	Hundreds of billions of dollars
Potential for Multiple Events	No
Recovery Timeline	Years


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## Scott (18 Mar 2012)

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> Well my place in ottawa probably has lots of lead in the paint.  I'll be fine.



And so will you, even if you've been snacking on the chips.

rancing:


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## The Bread Guy (18 Mar 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> And so will you, even if you've been snacking on the chips.
> 
> rancing:


But they're so sweet ....


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## 54/102 CEF (18 Mar 2012)

http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html?dll=38.88962,-77.01022&mll=38.88755,-77.02343&yd=10&zm=13&op=156

Check it out for yourself

Math wizards can wind the event down to a truck based 2000 pound IED - try it on any location you want


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## MedCorps (18 Mar 2012)

cupper said:
			
		

> It is used to detect the presence of unstable isotopes of radioactive materials through neutron decay. As the radioactive isotope goes from one state to another, it gives off neutrons which in this case can be used as a sign of the presence of a radioactive material.
> 
> It doesn't necessarily have to be bomb grade uranium or plutonium,* but any radioactive material can be detected, which can be useful in protecting against a "dirty" bomb as well.*



The neutron detector really is only good for looking for Uranium 233/235 and Plutonium 239 that have a natural decay by spontaneous fission. This produces neutrons which can be detected. These are the common "nuclear materials" but not exclusive use as a dirty bomb or radiation exposure device. They make up only three of the 24 radionuclides of concern for counter terrorism purposes. You might also pick up Californium-252 with a neutron detector (which may or may not be of concern depending who you talk with, but has been found in illegal trafficking the past). 

The neutron detector is normally paired with a gamma detector looking for other baddies such as Am 241 , Co 57/60, and Cs 137 (all industrial radionuclide which are subject to exploitation).  They will also find naturally occurring radioactive materials and medical radionuclides. This neutron / gamma detection combo will catch just about all of the radionuclides of interest. 

The problem with fixed vehicle detectors (as reported in the open source literature) is that you need proximity and exposure time in order to conduct a detection sample. It works well at fixed points (such as boarder control points, or mail control points, where it is very common) but not so well in public areas unless you can canalize and restrict vehicles.  The numbers that are commonly thrown around is that you cannot have a vehicle path larger than 3 meters (with one detection pillar), 6 meters (with two pillars, one on each side), and passage speed cannot be greater than 8 km/h.  Obviously this limits use somewhat for mass public detection.  You also need different instrumentation if you want to scan a stationary vehicle versus a moving vehicle. 

One of the problems is false alarms.  This often occurs because the person in the car has been treated with medical radionuclides. For trucks it is because they are carrying large amounts of material that has natural radioactive properties (common offenders are fertilizers, agricultural produce, tobacco products, some ores, and porcelain). Once the detector is triggered it is easy to determine that this is the case (due to the distribution of the radioactive material in the load), but it still requires the vehicle to be stopped, removed from traffic flow, and a second surveillance event to occur. 

There are also some ways that one can try and defeat detectors, but that is not for public consumption. 

MC


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Mar 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> And so will you, even if you've been snacking on the chips.
> 
> rancing:




Mmmmmmm, wall candy.


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## opp550 (18 Mar 2012)

> try it on any location you want



Just not in real life, okay?  >

Also related to the link: http://www.carloslabs.com/node/20


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## muskrat89 (18 Mar 2012)

Interesting Executive Order. The conspiracy theorists are going nuts; I'm not sure what to make of it. It's logical on the face of it (to a degree) but did it really require an EO, vice "regular legislative process"?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness


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## tomahawk6 (19 Mar 2012)

This EO is an update of the original that Bush signed.In the original Homeland Security had not been created.The update now includes Homeland Security.Nothing to see here folks move along.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Mar 2012)

Let's see after a week of celebrating the removal of most congressmen and many other forms of politicans, lobbyists and senior bureaucrat. I suspect the newly reinstuted US government would be showing the world what total warfare really means. It wouldn't be the first time an enemy had tried to "decapitate" the US government by destroying Washington and likely will have the same effect. Expect a leaner, more focused US Government bent on revenge.


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## PPCLI Guy (19 Mar 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> The country would probably start functioning a heck of a lot better with all those politicians out of the way. :



Did you really just advocate the death of 10,000's of people and their families as a means of "improving the functioning" of a country?  

 : indeed.


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## GDawg (19 Mar 2012)

Its getting a bit "Tom Clancy" in here.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Mar 2012)

Is not! Here we all write our own posts!!  :threat:


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