# TOP Aces - 414 EWS Alphajets soon to be replaced by F-16



## Titix (15 Mar 2019)

Hi,

As an ACSO applicant, I was looking at the airframes I could possibly use in a couple years.
I was glad to find out that some ACSOs end up in Ottawa on the TOP Aces' Alphajets (414 EWS). Then I found out on their website that TOP Aces' private fleet will include F-16 in the near future. Any of you have details about this transition? Besides hard work and the RCAF needs, does anyone know what does it take to be posted at 414 EWS? Is fitness level a key factor when the CF decide if you will be flying on a jet fighter or a Polaris?

Thanks!


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## blacktriangle (15 Mar 2019)

I'm not an ACSO, but I've worked with a couple folks from 414 in the past. As one might expect, they were pretty knowledgeable about EW stuff...so I'd advise not sucking at it if you get a chance to become an ACSO in the CAF. IIRC, the person I worked with most had completed AOEW and other specialty courses in that realm. They were pretty switched on.

Anyways hopefully someone will be able to offer you better advice, as that's all I have. Good luck.


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## SupersonicMax (15 Mar 2019)

I wouldn't count on a transition to Viper from Alphajet but rather a potential complement of Viper to supplement the Alphajet.  And I believe they are all Single Seat (ie: no EWO).  The EW pods on the Viper are all automatic anyways.


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## MarkOttawa (6 Nov 2020)

Another company, in London ON (further links at original):



> Canadian Fighter Pilot Training Company To Buy FA-50 Light Combat Jets
> _The jets could be used for advanced pilot training, adversary, and other duties that the firm provides_.
> 
> TPS Canada Ltd, a commercial provider of tactical aviation training services, is poised to add the two-seat Korea Aerospace Industries FA-50 Fighting Eagle light combat aircraft to its roster, with a Memorandum of Understanding signed between the Canadian firm and the jet’s manufacturer. The relationship, which ITPS officially announced yesterday, is described as serving to “promote the FA-50 for tactical and adversary training,” but the company plans to eventually entirely replace its legacy Aero Vodochody L-39C Albatros jet trainer fleet with the type.
> ...



Company's website:
https://itpscanada.com/

Mark
Ottawa


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## dapaterson (6 Nov 2020)

Given the RCAF's ongoing challenges in training sufficient numbers of pilots despite one of the lowest attrition rates in NATO, maybe they should look at multiple streams / multiple contracts for pilot training...


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## SupersonicMax (6 Nov 2020)

We are already doing this with the Euto-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training Program in the US.  Using civilian instructors for our Basic Flying Training with little oversight is not the solution.  Contracting instructors and airplanes and embed them within DND is more viable.  

Besides, ITPS offers Fighter Lead-In Training and we are not lacking there.


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## CBH99 (7 Nov 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Given the RCAF's ongoing challenges in training sufficient numbers of pilots despite one of the lowest attrition rates in NATO, maybe they should look at multiple streams / multiple contracts for pilot training...




Question for Max, or another pilot on the forum.

What are some of the challenges the RCAF has in training sufficient numbers of pilots?


I remember when NATO flying training in Canada was all the rage, but I really don't know much about the progression of military pilot training.


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## Quirky (29 Nov 2020)

> *Israel to sell surplus F-16s to Canadian company for $100 million*
> _Defense Ministry is in negotiations to sell 29 used planes to simulate enemy forces in a deal set to be the largest sale of Israeli Air Force surplus yet_
> 
> The Israeli Defense Ministry is in negotiations to sell 29 retired F-16 fighter jets to a Canadian company, Calcalist has learned. The deal is valued at $100 million, and is set to be the largest of its kind ever.
> ...



Another company in Cold Lake that can snap up pilots and techs from the RCAF.


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## Colin Parkinson (29 Nov 2020)

So people can fly or maintain fighters without dealing with all the CF BS, that might be hard to compete with.


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## lenaitch (29 Nov 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Another company in Cold Lake that can snap up pilots and techs from the RCAF.



The Company is based in Mirabel and is already under contract to the CAF.  I can't recall if I read that the acquisition allows them to retire their current Alphas and/or serve new contracts.


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## Cloud Cover (29 Nov 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Another company in Cold Lake that can snap up pilots and techs from the RCAF.



I wasn’t aware the RCAF has an inventory of F16 trained techs and pilots. In any event, unless DND is fantastically negligent, their contracts with Top Aces should have non-solicitation clauses.


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## YZT580 (30 Nov 2020)

That is 1/3 the size of the planned order for new fighters: and by a private company.  I will bet that it didn't take 10 years to decide either.


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## CBH99 (30 Nov 2020)

YZT580 said:
			
		

> That is 1/3 the size of the planned order for new fighters: and by a private company.  I will bet that it didn't take 10 years to decide either.




Not to be that irritating guy who critiques, but I think we're 10+ by a few years now...


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## Quirky (30 Nov 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> I wasn’t aware the RCAF has an inventory of F16 trained techs and pilots. In any event, unless DND is fantastically negligent, their contracts with Top Aces should have non-solicitation clauses.



A fighter is a fighter and I can’t imagine the F-16 being any more complex to maintain or fly than the hornet. Both are from the same era, transitioning to the Honda Civic of the sky doesn’t seem it would be all that difficult. Smaller airframe, simple landing gear and one less engine with associated accessories to worry about. The experience will have to come from somewhere, I’m not aware of any current or past operators out of Canada.


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## CBH99 (30 Nov 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> A fighter is a fighter and I can’t imagine the F-16 being any more complex to maintain or fly than the hornet. Both are from the same era, transitioning to the Honda Civic of the sky doesn’t seem it would be all that difficult. Smaller airframe, simple landing gear and one less engine with associated accessories to worry about. The experience will have to come from somewhere, I’m not aware of any current or past operators out of Canada.




I'm speaking completely out of my lane here, as I have absolutely zero experience as an aircraft tech.  In fact, anything beyond a simple oil change & I have to go to a Mr. Lube...

But...


I think Quirky probably hit it on it's head.  If anything it's a less complex machine than the CF-18.  If countries like Pakistan can keep their fleets flying - sometimes with spare parts & support being withheld due to sanctions - I'm sure a private company full of ex-air force types can keep them going in much the same way as the other fast jets in their fleet.


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## SupersonicMax (30 Nov 2020)

I doubt we’ll see those jets in Canadian skies anytime soon.  My bet is that they will fulfill the US contract.


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## blacktriangle (30 Nov 2020)

Saw what I'm pretty sure was an Alphajet the other day between Ottawa and Petawawa. Always struck me as something that could be a cool gig, especially considering you should be able to have a decent quality of life while doing it...


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## BurmaShave (30 Nov 2020)

YZT580 said:
			
		

> That is 1/3 the size of the planned order for new fighters: and by a private company.  I will bet that it didn't take 10 years to decide either.



I mean, we made a very similar purchase for a very similar price (excluding upgrades), and that was decided seemingly at the drop of a hat


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## CBH99 (30 Nov 2020)

BurmaShave said:
			
		

> I mean, we made a very similar purchase for a very similar price (excluding upgrades), and that was decided seemingly at the drop of a hat



"Replacing our aging fighters is one of this government's top priorities."
-  PM Trudeau, 2015


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## BurmaShave (30 Nov 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> "Replacing our aging fighters is one of this government's top priorities."
> -  PM Trudeau, 2015



I'm referring to the Aussie cast-offs, which went from good idea fairy to chequebook before anyone could even say "but you need 3 quotes".


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## CBH99 (30 Nov 2020)

BurmaShave said:
			
		

> I'm referring to the Aussie cast-offs, which went from good idea fairy to chequebook before anyone could even say "but you need 3 quotes".




Oh I know what you were referencing, I was supporting your reference with sarcasm  :nod:

Note to self:  I really need to stop typing the same way I think out loud, it doesn't always make sense when I read it a few days later either


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## Good2Golf (30 Nov 2020)

If anything, the aircraft would be battle proven...


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## CBH99 (30 Nov 2020)

See?  Always an upside guys


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## Good2Golf (30 Nov 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> See?  Always an upside guys



:nod:

The Upside


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## daftandbarmy (30 Nov 2020)

One of these days we'll train our pilots with the right kind of aircraft.

Like, you know, the most advanced versions available, which any peer/near peer enemy will be flying against us


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## Good2Golf (30 Nov 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> One of these days we'll train our pilots with the right kind of aircraft.
> 
> Like, you know, the most advanced versions available, which any peer/near peer enemy will be flying against us



Hmmmm...you’re on to something.  Maybe we’ll deploy to the Kashmir to peacekeep between F-16s and MiG-29s? ???


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## daftandbarmy (1 Dec 2020)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Hmmmm...you’re on to something.  Maybe we’ll deploy to the Kashmir to peacekeep between F-16s and MiG-29s? ???



Or a Chinese F-35, because you know they'll make thousands and thousands of them 

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27131/After_Copying_F_35_s_Stealth__China_s_J_20_Duplicating_its_Non_Stealth_Features


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## Ping Monkey (24 Feb 2021)

Looks like the new toys have arrived!









						How The World's First Privately Owned Fleet Of F-16 Aggressor Jets Became A Reality
					

Top Aces has ambitions to disrupt the growing adversary air contractor market with 29 F-16s and a lot of experienced pilots in their cockpits.




					www.thedrive.com


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