# Break down of pay



## hathor3 (14 Nov 2012)

I apologize if this has been answered somewhere else, and if it has, by all means, feel free to direct me to that thread as I couldn't locate it...but does anyone have a break down of the NCM pay in BMQ? With all this talk of married folk having to pay rations now, we would like to know a bit of what we are to expect when my hubby goes to basic January 21st. If you know the price of rations, that number would also be appreciated.

Thank you for your help.


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Nov 2012)

First, this thread has lots of info on the changes that were implemented in summer 2012, and then held in abeyance until Feb 2013 pending further review.  I believe rations costs are covered in it, but for ease, they would be $543.41/month.

However, as you will see in the linked thread above, the review is looking at whether service members in training at CF establishments who are prohibited from moving their Dependents, Household Good & Effects (D, HG & E) are going to be required to pay for rations.  

There are more than 1 thread here where gross and net pay while at CFLRS/BMQ are discussed and broken down.  If I can find one, I'll come back and link to it here.   

Here is a link to another thread where the topic of pay during BMQ was...discussed.   ;D


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## hathor3 (14 Nov 2012)

Thank you very much for your reply, both those threads are very helpful! 



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> However, as you will see in the linked thread above, the review is looking at whether service members in training at CF establishments who are prohibited from moving their Dependents, Household Good & Effects (D, HG & E) are going to be required to pay for rations.



So with that being said, it is still on the table, and there is potential for change between now and February? I was at first, under the impression it was just those who were choosing to go IR, and we were assured that was the case, but it seems that recently that has changed to include all on SE, so there has been a bit of confusion here as to how "set in stone" these news changes were exactly.


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Nov 2012)

The level these talks are happening are far, far above my rank and pay so unfortunately I can't make a comment worth any weight with regards to if the policy, when it comes out in 2013, will see married or common law recruits paying for rations while attending CFLRS training and initial occupation training. 

However, my personal opinion is they shouldn't and I am hopeful that in the end, the folks who make the decisions (Treasury Board, for example) will feel the same and take this additional burden off the list of worries for the newest and lowest paid members of the CF.  I found the policy being put into abeyance until a review was conducted and decided in Feb '13 a positive indicator, but that is just me.

Hope that helps some, even though I realize it is not really an answer.


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## hathor3 (14 Nov 2012)

I appreciate your input! I certainly hope the issue is tabled and resolved, as this decision/pay cut makes it incredibly difficult for families to afford to have a member join. It makes it especially hard for members with families who have already joined prior to this being implemented, as I know a few families are very worried about the coming months with their husband's already in BMQ. My husband didn't in any way join expecting, or looking to get rich, but he did join under the impression that we could still scrape by until his pay increased slightly. I have hope that they will look at this sensibly.


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Nov 2012)

I know this is fly-poop being picked out of pepper, but if they do it, it is a benefit reduction vice a pay cut.  

In the end though, yes I think you can see in the 30+ page Benefit Cuts thread that there is concern for many people.  Again, the fact that the CF Senior Leadership was able to cause the delay and review should be a positive sign to all that they are concerned and taking steps to have the decision makers re-look at aspects of the policy.

Now, we wait for the policy makers to decide.  I am confident that the CF will make a strong case.


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## hathor3 (19 Dec 2012)

Has there been any updates to this situation?


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Dec 2012)

No, the outcome should be announced early in 2013 though.


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## hathor3 (19 Dec 2012)

Thanks! Fingers crossed.


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## hathor3 (5 Feb 2013)

Any update to this? I heard something about a review supposed to be happening on the 3rd (a Sunday? Mind you, the military never stops working). I haven't seen anything since.


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## td_2013 (5 Feb 2013)

If this is in regards to everyone having to pay for rations now, the answer is yes ! (posting under my husbands account) but my husband just went to BMQ this past weekend and was informed Friday (by making a call to the RC) that every single person now as of Feb 1st, or 4th... i forget... has to pay for rations... think it is like $490/month or something like that.


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## hathor3 (5 Feb 2013)

It is in regards to that, yes. However, there was talk of a potential solution or amendment. My husband was also recently handed his new pay break-down with rations no longer included, so I know it has been implemented, but was hoping that some other solution for this issue has now been brought to the table.


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## td_2013 (5 Feb 2013)

lets keep our fingers crossed.


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## DAA (5 Feb 2013)

See the following post for details ----->  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/108923/post-1206947/topicseen.html#new


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## hathor3 (11 Feb 2013)

I checked out that post, but I don't quite understand the acronyms. Any chance someone could explain it to me in civi speak?


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Feb 2013)

R & Q = rations and quarters (food and rent )

MSC = married service couple.  2 people who are both CF members, married to each other.

OT = occupational transfer.  A CF member who is changing trades in the CF is often referred to as 'an OT'.

CT = componenet transfer.  A CF member who is moving between components in the CF, usually Primary Reserve to Reg Force.

Occupationally trained = having completed basic and your first trades training, and are employable. 

BTL = Basic Training List.   Where all CF members are "held" until they are at something called OFP (Operationally Functional Point), which is for the most part the same as occupationally trained (It varies between trades and not vitally important to this discussion).  But a normal seqeunce of events sees people on the BTL establishment until they are MOC qualified and then they are posted and held against a unit strength and against their trades Trained Effective Strength (TES).

If that doesn't help, perhaps you can ask a specific question/questions for clarity?


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## hathor3 (11 Feb 2013)

So correct me if I am wrong...it appears those who swore in prior to Sept. '12, are being taken care of, and attach posted. Those, like my husband, who swore in later than that, are sort of being thrown under the bus, and left on IR?


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Feb 2013)

hathor3 said:
			
		

> So correct me if I am wrong...it appears those who swore in prior to Sept. '12, are being taken care of, and attach posted. Those, like my husband, who swore in later than that, are sort of being thrown under the bus, and left on IR?



It doesn't appear so, in this thread.  

If what I am reading there is the case, then he will pay rations while on BMQ, then be attach posted or on TD (temp duty) to his trades training school and not pay rations.


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## hathor3 (11 Feb 2013)

Thanks! Fingers crossed. This is the comment that I got a different impression from: 
"The problem has been addressed as best it could.  Personnel enrolled prior to 1 Sep 12 will be sort of "grand-fathered" by way of "creative posting instrs" and will not be paying for R&Q until they are occupationally trained and off the BTL.  Those who enrolled 1 Sep 12 and on are considered to "have been advised of the cost implications for entry level training and agreed to the impacts before enrolling in the CF."

However, there was comments stating basically what you had said afterwards. I guess we'll find out soon


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## NavyHopeful (11 Feb 2013)

I notice that I am quoted in this thread, and I just wanted to clarify something.  The facts I have been given, and that I am providing are in relation to those who enlisted prior to 1 Sept 2012, and were in training as of 1 Feb 2013.  I am not sure how the people coming out of BMQ who enlisted (sworn in) after 1 Sept 2012.  The best way to know how they are dealing with the personnel whom enlisted AFTER 1 Sept 2012 would be to ask one of them.

I was sworn in on 3 June 2011, and graduated BMQ in April 2012.  I have been in training and considered BTL (Basic Training List) ever since.  My situation has me occupationally ready for duty as of February 25 of this year, so I can't exactly say what they are doing with someone who, say, swore in October 2012 and graduated BMQ this month.

If I hear of anything, this forum will be one of the first to know about it.  I know that everyone is waiting with baited breath to find out exactly how much this is going to hurt.  I know the feeling, because up until today, I was one of them.

Good luck, and if anyone hears of anything, please share it for us.

Rev


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