# Pay Raise For Fiscal Year 2006



## Patrolman (9 Mar 2006)

Has anyone heard rumours of a new pay raise in the upcoming fiscal year? I saw a thread on the French boards but unfortunately my French is not very good. I am currently on parental leave and have not had an O-Group for quite some time. If anyone has any info or can fill me in on the French thread it would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Armymedic (9 Mar 2006)

Never heard anything thru official sources....yet.


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## a_majoor (9 Mar 2006)

I have to look up the CANFORGEN, but we are getting a 2.4% raise in '06, as previously determined by the TB. (This package was announced last year).


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## armyvern (10 Mar 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Never heard anything thru official sources....yet.


Gave it out to my troops in an O Group 3 weeks ago.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (10 Mar 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Gave it out to my troops in an O Group 3 weeks ago.



so what is it ?? ???


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Mar 2006)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> so what is it ?? ???





			
				a_majoor said:
			
		

> I have to look up the CANFORGEN, *but we are getting a 2.4% raise in '06*, as previously determined by the TB. (This package was announced last year).



Seems pretty clear to me. 2.4%.


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## Mortar guy (10 Mar 2006)

I'm not doubting you amigo but I couldn't find the CANFORGEN about the pay raise. Do you have a rough idea of when it was released. Cheers.

MG


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## TN2IC (10 Mar 2006)

Echo what a_majoor  said...


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## vonGarvin (10 Mar 2006)

Is the 2.4% backdated about 5 years?  LOL
Sorry, couldn't resist!


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## reccecrewman (10 Mar 2006)

Wasn't it announced when the public servants got their new contract & pay raise last year?  In any event, more money is always good - and 2.4% is pretty decent.


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## kincanucks (10 Mar 2006)

TN2IC said:
			
		

> Echo what a_majoor  said...



And now I have a warm fuzzy feeling. ;D


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (11 Mar 2006)

CANFORGEN 043/05 251214Z Feb 05

Implementation of FY 04/05 and
FY 05/06 Pay increase


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## Inch (11 Mar 2006)

SHELLDRAKE!! said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 043/05 251214Z Feb 05
> 
> Implementation of FY 04/05 and
> FY 05/06 Pay increase



This is the last month in FY 05/06, I don't believe there was any mention of a cost of living raise for FY 06/07 in that CANFORGEN. In the past, the cost of living raises have come out in the summer, back dated to Apr 1st. I can recall a few occasions this has happened.


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## Patrolman (30 Mar 2006)

Just a quick update for those who have not heard.Talking with a gentleman today from my running group I have learned we are supposed to get a pay raise of just above 4%. 
Apparently the delay is because we are waiting for a couple more departments to sign on. If they don't sign on before July it may be September before we get the raise. Oh yea, my source is the base commanders assistant here in Gagetown.


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## Scoobie Newbie (30 Mar 2006)

"from my running group"

is that were we get our int from now?


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## Bobbyoreo (30 Mar 2006)

"from my running group"

is that were we get our int from now? 


Never laughed that hard before.......and yes..most likely...that is where it comes from..


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## Patrolman (30 Mar 2006)

Perhaps you never took the time to read my entire post. The individual who gave me the info is in the military and just so happens to be the assistant of Col. Ryan Jestin base commander of Gagetown. Surely the base commander would know of such things.


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## Scoobie Newbie (30 Mar 2006)

and perhaps you didn't read mine where I put in a winky smilie like this one.


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## Patrolman (30 Mar 2006)

Maybe you are right.


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## Bzzliteyr (30 Mar 2006)

You are forced to run!?!?! What is this army coming to?


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## Sh0rtbUs (30 Mar 2006)

Sorry, but will there be backpay at all?

The last increase we recieved, left a pretty decent chunk of cash in my bank account.  ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (30 Mar 2006)

No back pay as far as I know.


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## Arctic Acorn (30 Mar 2006)

CFL said:
			
		

> "from my running group"
> 
> is that were we get our int from now?



Hey, a good source is a good source...all the int guys will do is tell you that this info seems to jive with reporting from other sources, that it strongly indicates that we'll likely recieve definitive word of a pay raise in the next few months, and then ask nicely for the guy's phone number once the briefing is over...  ;D

 :dontpanic:


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## vonGarvin (31 Mar 2006)

CFL said:
			
		

> "from my running group"
> 
> is that were we get our int from now?


That's where I get my info


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## honestyrules (31 Mar 2006)

Patrolman,

I'm not part of that running group of yours. From what I remember from last year, that 2.4% that we're getting this year has already being discussed and approved last year. So, in fact, we're not supposed to wait for it. I don't know when we'll be getting it, but I didn't hear anything about negotiations this year about this...

Hopefully, that raise will get there in time, without any glitches (pipe dream???).

"from my non-perfect memory",


Delavan


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## Scoobs (31 Mar 2006)

I too was curious if we were getting a pay raise as of 1 Apr 06 (start of FY 06/07).  I asked the Chief Clerk of my unit, who then asked the Base Borden OR if they had heard of any raise.  The response was that they had not heard of anything.  It did NOT state whether or not we are getting a raise.  Also, I extensively searched the CANFORGENS for 2006 and found no reference to pay raises at all.  If the CANFORGEN has been released, it would have been posted on the VCDS intranet site.  Also, I checked the CANFORGENS that related to pay for 2005 and there is NO reference to FY 06/07 at all.  Therefore, *officially*, there is nothing out yet on any pay raise for FY 06/07.
Leading up to last year's pay raise and previous ones, typically update CANFORGENS were released.  They updated us on when we could expect the raise and to let us know that the implementation of the raise was delayed.  We then received back pay for the appropriate time back to the FY beginning.
All that said, if we do get a pay raise (and I'm hoping we do), any raise will definitely go back to the start of FY 06/07, which is 1 Apr 06.  It typically takes 15 days to make any changes to anyones pay due to the pay cycles.  So, if we're lucky and the pay raise is announced in April, expect to get the raise, along with any back pay, in May or June.

Info above is valid as I did the research and contacting of pers myself.


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## George Wallace (31 Mar 2006)

So....I guess "jogging" one's memory doesn't count in this case..... ;D


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## Love793 (1 Apr 2006)

CANFORGEN 033/05 CDS 010 151335Z FEB 05
FY 04/05 AND 05/06 PAY INCREASES
UNCLASSIFIED


REF: CANFORGEN 155/04 ADM(HR-MIL) 083 171309Z DEC 04 



THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENCE IS PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THE FOLLOWING INCREASES TO PAY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ALLOWANCES 


CF NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 04 

(1) AN ECONOMIC ADJUSTMENT OF 2.25 PERCENT AND 

(2) AN ADJUSTMENT OF 4.25 PERCENT TO RESTORE COMPARABILITY WITH THE PUBLIC SERVICE (PS) 

(3) EXAMPLES OF AMT OF BACK PAY BEFORE DEDUCTIONS. CPL STD IPC4 WILL RECEIVE BACK PAY OF APPROX 3120 DOLLARS WHEREAS CWO IPC4 WILL RECEIVE APPROX 4824 DOLLARS 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 05 AN ECONOMIC ADJUSTMENT OF 2.4 PERCENT 


CF GENERAL SERVICE OFFICERS (GSO)/PILOTS (LCOL AND BELOW) AND MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS (LT AND 2LT) WILL RECEIVE 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 04 

(1) AN ECONOMIC ADJUSTMENT OF 2.25 PERCENT AND 

(2) AN ADJUSTMENT OF 1.03 PERCENT TO RESTORE COMPARABILITY WITH THE PS 

(3) EXAMPLES OF BACKPAY BEFORE DEDUCTIONS. 2LT WILL RECEIVE FROM 1128 DOLLARS TO 2088 DOLLARS, CAPT GSO IPC10 2604 DOLLARS AND LCOL GSO IPC4 3288 DOLLARS 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 05 

(1) AN ECONOMIC ADJUSTMENT OF 2.4 PERCENT AND 

(2) THERE ARE STILL A LARGE NUMBER OF LAPSED AGREEMENTS FOR PS GROUPS. SHOULD THE SETTLEMENT RATES FOR LAPSED AGREEMENTS FOR THE BENCHMARKED PUBLIC SERVICE GROUPS EVENTUALLY PROVE TO BE HIGHER THAN THE PAY ADJUSTMENTS AWARDED TO AFFECTED OFFICERS FOR FISCAL YEARS 2003/2004, 2004/2005 AND 2005/2006, TB APPROVAL WILL BE SOUGHT TO AUTHORIZE LUMP SUMS OF PAY IN THE AMOUNT OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ECONOMIC INCREASE APPROVED FOR GSOS FOR FY 2005/2006 AND THE AMOUNT OF THE PAY ADJUSTMENT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR FY 2005/2006 HAD THE PUBLIC SERVICE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING PROCESS BEEN SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETED 


ENVIRONMENTAL AND SPECIAL ALLOWANCES WILL BE ADJUSTED AS FOLLOWS 

(A) EFF 1 APR 04 5.68 PERCENT AND 

(B) EFF 1 APR 05 2.4 PERCENT 


THE ABOVE INCREASES SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE END MAR 05 PAY FOR MOST CF MEMBERS 


THE REVISED RATES ARE AVAILABLE ON THE DGCB INTERNET SITE AT HTTP://WWW.DND.CA/HR/DPPD// AND INTRANET HTTP://HR.DWAN.DND.CA/DGCB/DPPD/ 

      
     Last Updated: 2005-02-15     Important notices   

Says nothing definite regarding increases this FY, only if the outstanding settlements will result in a increase for COLA.


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## 404SqnAVSTeach (25 Apr 2006)

Still no news.... are we getting one???


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## commo_dude (25 Apr 2006)

any news on our pay raise?


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## George Wallace (25 Apr 2006)

:  Get real!  Are you not able to go in to visit your Pay Clerk and find out for yourself?


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## Gunner (25 Apr 2006)

It's possible something will be announced in the budget (taking care of the troops by giving them x% increase).  I suspect we will hear more on 2 May or slightly thereafter.


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## Dara (27 Apr 2006)

There was some sort of meeting on the air side, don't ask me when or who, but the sqn chief sent an email based on this information.  Unofficially, there is going to be a pay raise back dated to 1 Apr 06, probably not coming out until Oct 06.  Hopefully in the 2% range, as were the previous raises.


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## Quag (27 Apr 2006)

2% eh?  Does that applies to Officer Cadet's pay to?

That would be sweet if it does.  I might be able to buy the good toilet paper now, the 2 ply! ;D

(In good humour )


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## IN HOC SIGNO (29 Apr 2006)

Quag said:
			
		

> 2% eh?  Does that applies to Officer Cadet's pay to?
> 
> That would be sweet if it does.  I might be able to buy the good toilet paper now, the 2 ply! ;D
> 
> (In good humour )



When they announce pay raises it goes to all ranks....sometimes they increase NCMs more than officers...as in the raise of 2001....but other times it's a blanket across the board.


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## reccecrewman (1 May 2006)

2 ply???? Sir, with all due respect, I think you chose the wrong side.........  ;D  I just saw the other day in the F-16 barrack block a Trooper (Thats right, a bloody Private!) pulled into the parking lot with his new Porsche Boxter. Ah, to be a young Trooper living in the barracks with no bills......................  ;


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## orange.paint (1 May 2006)

That little bearded frenchman is cool.I like him.


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## reccecrewman (2 May 2006)

Don't get me wrong, he's a pretty good guy - I can't say I know anyone that doesn't like him.............. Sweet ride he's got........


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## orange.paint (2 May 2006)

Yep he was at my house with it this summer.Cant imagine I only had a television to show for my first three years.Dam shots!
cant wait to get this pay raise...maybe I can buy a model porche for my computer desk.Im happy we aint getting it right away....perfer back pay.


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## Inch (2 May 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> Yep he was at my house with it this summer.Cant imagine I only had a television to show for my first three years.Dam shots!
> cant wait to get this pay raise...maybe I can buy a model porche for my computer desk.Im happy we aint getting it right away....perfer back pay.



Can't wait to get what pay raise? Nothing has been stated in CANFORGENs or anything else for that matter.


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## geo (2 May 2006)

well.... we certainly can't (or shouldn't) expect to receive anything more than what the Public service have negotiated.... what they get.... we'll get (They have better negotiating techniques).


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## Gouki (3 May 2006)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> 2 ply???? Sir, with all due respect, I think you chose the wrong side.........  ;D  I just saw the other day in the F-16 barrack block a Trooper (Thats right, a bloody Private!) pulled into the parking lot with his new Porsche Boxter. Ah, to be a young Trooper living in the barracks with no bills......................  ;



A trooper owns that? Man..

Young and living in with no bills? I wish. Then again it's mostly the ridiculous insurance killing me. I for one hope for this pay raise, as odd as it sounds I could really use it. I heard more and more talk about it today in the ROR and surrounding area but really it's nothing no ones already mentioned previously.


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## Nfld Sapper (3 May 2006)

Spoke with my OR Clerks yesterday and they are under the impression that we aren't getting a pay raise this year because the last pay raise we got was a lump sum compared to how it was paid out to the public service. Their pay raise is over 3 (?) years.


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## geo (3 May 2006)

Sapper.... the lump sum that came our way was an adjustment to bring us up to Public service levels..... we should be as they - pay rases over 3 years.


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## mckie0514 (26 Jun 2006)

So has anyone heard anything about a raise yet?  My dh has asked at his unit but they say they haven't heard anything and not to hold our breath.


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## techie (26 Jun 2006)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/4_06/4_06_dgcb_pay-comparability_e.asp


"From Maj Dave Barr, Directorate of Pay Policy Development

The process of establishing Canadian Forces (CF) salaries and pay raises is a cyclical functiondollar sign that is currently well underway with regard to 2006 salaries and raises. When 2006 pay increases are announced, they will be retroactive to April 1, 2006."

Basicly we are getting a raise in pay, we just dont know how much, but it will be retroactive April 2006.


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## 404SqnAVSTeach (26 Jun 2006)

Thanks for the Info Techy

I found this on another board -> Canadaka.net
MP's get hefty hikes to cover expenses
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=985e2f5b-0bd1-438d-9910-2cc01ff829a9


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## Springroll (26 Jun 2006)

Best advice we ever got: 

"Don't believe anything, in regards to pay raises, until you actually see the increase on your pay statement and it matches the amount in your account"



			
				404SqnAVSTeach said:
			
		

> MP's get hefty hikes to cover expenses
> http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=985e2f5b-0bd1-438d-9910-2cc01ff829a9



That would be MP's as in Members of Parliament. 
Can only dream of making what they do


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## Jarnhamar (30 Jun 2006)

Hey this pay raise can make up for the big possibility of roto 2 regs and reserves loosing their 6 months worth of TD  :blotto:


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## geo (30 Jun 2006)

huh?


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## Jarnhamar (1 Jul 2006)

Ignore me, just bitching


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## IN HOC SIGNO (2 Jul 2006)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Ignore me, just bitching



Done ;D


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## BKells (4 Jul 2006)

Our platoon 2i/c told us today to expect a CANFORGEN to be released in a few days regarding pay raises.


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## Scoobie Newbie (4 Jul 2006)

Don't believe it till you've spent it.


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## Bobbyoreo (5 Jul 2006)

The problem is....I've already spent it....now I need more.... :'(


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## geo (5 Jul 2006)

(sniff, sob, boo hoo!)


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## foerestedwarrior (21 Jul 2006)

Just came out. No details yet regarding exact amounts. Though it emphasises that it WILL be retroactive to 1 April 06 regardless of when it comes in.



> UNCLAS CANFORGEN 120/06 CMP 055
> SIC WAS
> BILINGUAL MESSAGE / MESSAGE BILINGUE
> SUBJ:  STATUS OF PAY INCREASES FOR CF MEMBERS - FY 06/07
> ...


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## jc5778 (21 Jul 2006)

A little funny how they can never seem to give us our pay raise on time.  I'm sure the politicians get theirs on time, staff officers too.  Oh well, bigger chunk in the end, just like last year.  Hopefully it doesn't go as long as last time though.


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## vonGarvin (21 Jul 2006)

7 - 10 days said:
			
		

> I'm sure the politicians get theirs on time, staff officers too.


FYI, the "GSOs" referred to in the message are probably mostly staff officers.  As am I.  I have yet to receive the pay increase.  Just to clear up any misconceptions that the officers are getting their pay raise before the troops (although, by tradition, the NCMs eat first whilst the officers get paid first).


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## Loachman (21 Jul 2006)

7 - 10 days said:
			
		

> I'm sure the politicians get theirs on time, staff officers too.


I've spent about ten years as a staff officer out of 33 years total and I've never got my pay increase one minute earlier than anybody else, thank you very much.


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## GAP (21 Jul 2006)

"IT IS NOT POSSIBLE AT THIS TIME TO ANNOUNCE THE 
GSO/PILOT/NCM PAY ADJUSTMENT AND IT WILL LIKELY NOT BE POSSIBLE TO 
DO SO BEFORE FALL 06. "


Am I blind? That quote specifically points out that staff officers will receive their raises much later   :


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## jc5778 (21 Jul 2006)

7 - 10 days said:
			
		

> A little funny how they can never seem to give us our pay raise on time.  I'm sure the politicians get theirs on time, staff officers too.  Oh well, bigger chunk in the end, just like last year.  Hopefully it doesn't go as long as last time though.



Wow, no disrespect intended boys and girls, I actually meant to put a  after the post.  We all a little testy today?


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## Inch (21 Jul 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> FYI, the "GSOs" referred to in the message are probably mostly staff officers.  As am I.  I have yet to receive the pay increase.  Just to clear up any misconceptions that the officers are getting their pay raise before the troops (although, by tradition, the NCMs eat first whilst the officers get paid first).



GSO stands for General Service Officer, IE if you are an officer, LCol or below and not a pilot, JAG, medical or dental officer, then you are a GSO. So infantry officers, LogOs, Armoured, Air Navigators, etc are all GSOs.

There are not separate pay tables for staff officers vs line officers.

The last line of the CANFORGEN:


> BY CDS DIRECTION, IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SNR OFFRS INCREASE WILL NOT OCCUR UNTIL WE ARE IN A POSITION TO FIRST IMPLEMENT THE GSO/PILOT/NCM PAY INCREASE



Clear enough?


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## Loachman (21 Jul 2006)

Pilots are still GSOs, even though we have a separate pay scale.

Definitions from DAOD 5002 (The only ones that I could find on the DIN in an admittedly cursory search):

GSOs are employed "normally in positions relating to their military occupation, especially at the lower rank levels".

Specialist Officers (Chaplain, Medical, Legal, Dental etc) are employed "exclusively in positions relating to their military occupation".


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## Inch (21 Jul 2006)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Pilots are still GSOs, even though we have a separate pay scale.
> 
> Definitions from DAOD 5002 (The only ones that I could find on the DIN in an admittedly cursory search):
> 
> ...



That is correct, I was pointing out the pay scales however, which do make a distinction between GSOs, Pilots, Jags, and MedOs/DentOs.

From the CBI definition for GSO:

(1) (Application) This instruction applies to an officer in the rank of lieutenant-general, major-general, brigadier-general, colonel, lieutenant-colonel, major or captain, other than an officer paid under

-CBI 204.214 (Pay - Officers - Navigators); 
-CBI 204.215 (Pay - Officers - Pilots - Lieutenant-colonel, Major and Captain); 
-CBI 204.216 (Pay – Medical Officers); 
-CBI 204.217(Pay – Dental Officers); or 
-CBI 204.218 (Pay - Officers - Legal). 
-who holds a position to which the officer is appointed by the Governor in Council. 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=204.20&sidecat=21&Chapter=204#204.20


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## ModlrMike (24 Jul 2006)

The delays have nothing to do with the CF and everything to do with the PS. There are 6 or 8 bargaining units in the PS that have to come to terms with TB before anything can be done on behalf of the CF.


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## reccecrewman (24 Jul 2006)

These raises only amount to a few dollars a pay.  I don't mind retroactive because my budget is set at my income I make now, so a couple hundred bucks unexpected is always nice.

Regards


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## Remius (24 Jul 2006)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> The delays have nothing to do with the CF and everything to do with the PS. There are 6 or 8 bargaining units in the PS that have to come to terms with TB before anything can be done on behalf of the CF.



Yep.  And then the CF has to deal with the Treasury Board.  Rumour has it, that's where they are right now.   But a friend of a friend of a friend who know's somebody says so.  So it must be true, right?


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## dapaterson (24 Jul 2006)

Last I heard was TB and the CF were arguing over 0.8% (the CF was arguing that the increase should be 0.8% more than the increase offered by TB). On the individual level, it's not much, but across the whole of the CF it's real money, hence the delay.


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## Remius (24 Jul 2006)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Last I heard was TB and the CF were arguing over 0.8% (the CF was arguing that the increase should be 0.8% more than the increase offered by TB). On the individual level, it's not much, but across the whole of the CF it's real money, hence the delay.



Ah I see you've been talking to my friend of a friend who knows somebody.


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## dapaterson (24 Jul 2006)

More of a friend who just left DPPD and is extremely relieved that he will have nothing to do with TB for the rest of his natural life...


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## Spr.Earl (24 Jul 2006)

I just want to see what I may expect for my service since  76 as a memeber of the Miltia and what I have too buy back for the Pension.
Oh I get it they are waiting for us old fart's to die off!
WRONG!!!!
There is loads of us about!!


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## 17thRecceSgt (26 Jul 2006)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> These raises only amount to a few dollars a pay.  I don't mind retroactive because my budget is set at my income I make now, so a couple hundred bucks unexpected is always nice.
> 
> Regards



Always better than a kick in the a$$ with a frozen mukluk!


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## techie (26 Jul 2006)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Last I heard was TB and the CF were arguing over 0.8% (the CF was arguing that the increase should be 0.8% more than the increase offered by TB). On the individual level, it's not much, but across the whole of the CF it's real money, hence the delay.



That %0.8 means an increase of $19.37 a month for a Pte(base) which works out to an extra 232.44 a year. After lets say 36% tax rate means only a Net increase of about $148.76.


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## 17thRecceSgt (26 Jul 2006)

techie said:
			
		

> That %0.8 means an increase of $19.37 a month for a Pte(base) which works out to an extra 232.44 a year. After lets say 36% tax rate means only a Net increase of about $148.76.



Umm, maybe I had too much sun today but I don't think Pte's are paying 36% tax....I know I didn't last tax season.  But...I get what you are saying.  I think the % is about...10% higher than I would make it.


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## techie (26 Jul 2006)

its 31% tax  in ontario(16 federal, 15 provincal)


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## 17thRecceSgt (26 Jul 2006)

roger that (ouch).   ;D


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## Inch (27 Jul 2006)

techie said:
			
		

> its 31% tax  in ontario(16 federal, 15 provincal)



Uh, no.

Federal low tax bracket is 15.25% and Ontario low tax bracket is 6.05% for a total of 21.3%. High tax bracket for federal is 26% (from $72,756 to $118,285) and Ontario's high tax bracket is 11.16% on any amount over $69,517 for a total of 37.16%.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html


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## 17thRecceSgt (28 Jul 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> Uh, no.
> 
> Federal low tax bracket is 15.25% and Ontario low tax bracket is 6.05% for a total of 21.3%. High tax bracket for federal is 26% (from $72,756 to $118,285) and Ontario's high tax bracket is 11.16% on any amount over $69,517 for a total of 37.16%.
> 
> http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html



Phew!  I was about to change my posting pref's.   ;D


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## Sub_Guy (15 Sep 2006)

I hate doing this, but the latest and greatest at my place of employment pegs the raise at approx 5%...............  I guess there is divisions in ESQ this morning, and someone mentioned that it was going to be mentioned there...



As for everything, I never believe it unless it is on paper.........


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## George Wallace (15 Sep 2006)

ESQ = Enhanced Single Quarters.  So the rumour going through the shacks is 5% ?


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## Sub_Guy (15 Sep 2006)

Esq = Esquimalt


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## jc5778 (15 Sep 2006)

maybe they can decide BEFORE Christmas, nice little back pay wouldn't hurt the cause ;D


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## navymich (15 Sep 2006)

Sub_Guy said:
			
		

> I hate doing this, but the latest and greatest at my place of employment pegs the raise at approx 5%...............  I guess there is divisions in ESQ this morning, and someone mentioned that it was going to be mentioned there...



Nope, wasn't mentioned at divys this morning.


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## MightyMouse (15 Sep 2006)

??? wow I sure feel dumb right now  ???


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## navymich (15 Sep 2006)

MightyMouse said:
			
		

> ??? wow I sure feel dumb right now  ???



Don't keep us all in suspense then.....


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## armyvern (15 Sep 2006)

Just had the Comd 3 ASG Gagetown over here yesterday who gave a briefing on upcoming events/goings on to the Unit COs. Although much (!!) was mentionned/addressed, the pay raise was not one of them. 

Thus, I'd say the CANFORGEN on it still stands...no amounts yet decided (NCMs anyways) ....details hopefully in the early fall. Watch and shoot.


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## steve29 (15 Sep 2006)

Although like the others only a rumour, but the chief clerk said it was going to be right around 5%. Again only a rumour, she heard it from friend in Ottawa, but I love rumours when it comes to things like pay, it is just like buying a lottery ticket haha


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## Spring_bok (16 Sep 2006)

Every Chief clerk has a friend in Ottawa.


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## tomahawk6 (16 Sep 2006)

That beats the proposed overall US mil pay raise of 2.7%. But some ranks warrant officers,mid-grade and senior petty and noncommissioned officers will get a targeted raise of anywhere from 5-11%. The UK pay raise next year is supposed to be around 2.2%.


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## FSTO (16 Sep 2006)

A certain RMS C1 at MARPAC told me it was 2.5 effective 01 Oct 06. She also said that they will announce the PLD review also.


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## Donut (16 Sep 2006)

Wouldn't that go agains the info already released by official sources?  

I know the % has yet tbd, but isn't the effective date already released as 1 Apr 06?

IF that's the case, I call shenanigans.  Well, maybe not shenanigans, but BS.

DF


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## Cronicbny (16 Sep 2006)

the effective date (by ALL official sources) is Apr 06... The % rate... well that remains to be seen


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO (16 Sep 2006)

Cronicbny said:
			
		

> the effective date (by ALL official sources) is Apr 06... The % rate... well that remains to be seen



I heard effective Apr but will be announced 01 Oct...last night in the Mess...so it must be true ;D


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2006)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> I heard effective Apr but will be announced 01 Oct...last night in the Mess...so it must be true ;D



The effective date of the pay raise (eff retroactive to 01 Apr 06) was released in the CANFORGEN. Only the percentage amount and the date we will see it deposited into our accounts remains to be seen. Although the CANFORGEN said it was hoped to have it sorted out in the early fall.


----------



## PhilB (16 Sep 2006)

Not that it will be a huge amount of money but... For those of us that were on Roto 1 the bulk of the time for this raise will be overseas. Now since the money we make over there is tax free is the money from this retroactive pay raise tax free? Just wondering how that would work


----------



## Gunner (16 Sep 2006)

> Now since the money we make over there is tax free is the money from this retroactive pay raise tax free?



I do not believe so.  You will be taxed at your tax rate when the money is received.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Sep 2006)

PhilB said:
			
		

> Not that it will be a huge amount of money but... For those of us that were on Roto 1 the bulk of the time for this raise will be overseas. Now since the money we make over there is tax free is the money from this retroactive pay raise tax free? Just wondering how that would work





			
				Gunner said:
			
		

> I do not believe so.  You will be taxed at your tax rate when the money is received.


I believe you are in error.  
Assumptions:
Pay raise is eff 1 apr 06
Pers is deployed to a "tax exempt" area from 1 may to 31 may 06
Retro pay comes in 1 Nov 06
Assume that the person's increase amounts to 100 dollars for may 06
That person's pay for may 06 is 100% tax emempt.  Whether paid at that time, or deferred to a later date due to a pay increase.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Sep 2006)

No more rumours or conjecture. When the CANFORGEN is released, so will be the lock on this thread.


----------



## Gunner (16 Sep 2006)

My apologies for using my "mod powers" to break the lock on this thread.  If you have something to add, plse email a mod.

von Garvin, you may be correct as I am certainly not an expert.  From what I can google:

It's a moot arguement above Capt:



> The tax break will apply up to the highest level of pay earned by a non-commissioned member of the CF—currently $6089 per month—regardless of the length of the deployment and the rank. If a member earns more than this amount, tax must be paid on the difference. For example, a member earning a monthly gross income of $7089 will pay tax on $1000.



http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/supplement/2004/04-04_tax-exemption_e.asp

No mention in the last pay adjustment canforgen:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Downloads/PAY_INCREASES-2005.doc

Gut feel remains that pay adjustments are not retroactively tax exempt.  If anyone remembers let me know!


----------



## armyvern (25 Oct 2006)

Pay Raise details have just been released. 

*Canforgen 155/06 refers.* 

I will edit to include DIN link as soon as the electronic message is posted.


----------



## 404SqnAVSTeach (25 Oct 2006)

Advance Copy
http://msg-server.marlant.halifax.dnd.ca/messages/halifax_region/cfrc_det_halifax/2006297002949.html
Revised Pay Scale
http://www.forces.gc.ca/DGCB/DPPD/engraph/download_e.asp?docid=2&sidesection=3


----------



## 211RadOp (25 Oct 2006)

404 beat me too it. I just found the link to the pay scales.


----------



## George Wallace (25 Oct 2006)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> 404 beat me too it. I just found the link to the pay scales.



Even 404 was beat out, as it was posted yesterday.   ;D



			
				TB said:
			
		

> Words came out throught c-o-c. We're getting 6.6% increase backpay from Apr 1st   ;D
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=3



http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=3


----------



## 404SqnAVSTeach (25 Oct 2006)

My wife phone me at work this am, before I got this early message.


----------



## once a gunner (25 Oct 2006)

My Wife called me from Borden, and her PO told the Crse that was 3.5% and we should see it on 15 Dec 06 Pay.......?


----------



## 211RadOp (25 Oct 2006)

George, I don't know where he got his numbers from, but there is no 6.6% in the message.


----------



## armyvern (25 Oct 2006)

Neither do I.

I'm looking at the Canforgen.

Canforgen 155/06:

http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2006/155-06_e.asp

*2.62% for NCMs eff 01 Apr 06*

and additional 3.88% for personnel *employed* in Spec1 and Spec2 positions.

So for the overwhelming majority....

It's only 2.62%. Don't believe everything you hear from your sources.


----------



## navymich (25 Oct 2006)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> George, I don't know where he got his numbers from, but there is no 6.6% in the message.



The 2.62% + 3.88% = 6.5%, so close to the 6.6% that people have said.


----------



## armyvern (25 Oct 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> The 2.62% + 3.88% = 6.5%, so close to the 6.6% that people have said.


Yeah but only for those in Spec1&2 posns. Only 2.62% for the vast majority.


----------



## 211RadOp (25 Oct 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> The 2.62% + 3.88% = 6.5%, so close to the 6.6% that people have said.



Actually a Spec 1 WO who works in the desk behind me figured it out. It is almost 9% when you figure out the difference. First they added the 2.62% then added 3.88% of that total.


----------



## George Wallace (25 Oct 2006)

Whatever the percentages, which you all seem to show as fluctuating between Ranks and Specialities, the links are there to the different files that will show what the new pay scales are.  Who really cares about the percentages anyway?  Most are more concerned about the actual pay.


----------



## vonGarvin (25 Oct 2006)

And, when do I get my money?

*$*


----------



## armyvern (25 Oct 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> And, when do I get my money?
> 
> *$*



They are hoping for a Mid-Dec pay release.


----------



## GAP (25 Oct 2006)

Just in time for Christmas....


----------



## vonGarvin (25 Oct 2006)

So, 'x' percent, on 15 Dec, 'should' cover 8 months.  Heck, even 1% at 8 months (after taxes) isn't too shabby!


----------



## Sub_Guy (25 Oct 2006)

Silly question ..... What the heck does "employed" in a spec 1 and spec 2 position mean?   


Ok I just read the message, those Spec pay occupations are getting a bigger raise, boy am I thankful that the NAVCOMM CPO's pursuing this........ Sweet lord get off your a$$es and sort that out....


----------



## geo (25 Oct 2006)

you have to be doing the work that your specialty happens to be in.........


----------



## geo (25 Oct 2006)

CANFORGEN 155/06 CMP 067 241633Z OCT 06
FY 05/06 AND 06/07 CF PAY INCREASES
UNCLASSIFIED



THE MND IS PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THE FOLLOWING INCREASES TO CF PAY AND ALLOWANCES 


FOR NCMS 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 06 1) A PAY ADJUSTMENT OF 2.62 PERCENT FOR ALL NCM RANKS 2) AN ADDITIONAL PAY ADJUSTMENT OF 3.88 PERCENT TO SPECIALIST 1 AND SPECIALIST 2 TRADE GROUPS 3) REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS EMPLOYED IN SPECIALIST 1 OR SPECIALIST 2 OCCUPATIONS WHO COMPONENT TRANSFER TO THE RESERVE FORCE AND CONTINUE TO BE EMPLOYED IN THEIR FORMER OCCUPATION, SPECIFICALLY IN A POSN THAT REQUIRES THOSE SKILLS, WILL BE COMPENSATED AT THE APPROPRIATE RESERVE FORCE SPECIALIST RATE OF PAY 


THE CREATION OF TWO NEW PAY LEVELS FOR REG F CPO1S/CWOS. ONE SHALL APPLY ONLY TO THE CFCWO WITH RATES BENCHMARKED TO 11.3 PERCENT ABOVE THE EXISTING CPO1/CWO PAY LEVELS, AND ONE SHALL APPLY TO CPO1S/CWOS APPOINTED TO THE SENIOR APPOINTMENTS LIST BY THE CDS WITH RATES OF PAY BENCHMARKED TO 7 PERCENT ABOVE THE EXISTING CPO1/CWO PAY LEVELS. THE NEW PAY LEVELS ARE EFFECTIVE AS OF 01 SEP 06, THE DATE THE CDS APPROVED THE SENIOR APPOINTMENTS LIST 


FOR CF FLAG/GENERAL OFFICERS AND CAPT(N)/COLS, A WEIGHTED AVERAGE PAY ADJUSTMENT OF 3.53 PERCENT EFFECTIVE 1 APR 06 


FOR GSOS (CDR/LCOL AND BELOW), PILOTS (CDR/LCOL AND BELOW) AND MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS (A/SLT/2LT AND SLT/LT) 


A RETROACTIVE LUMP SUM OF PAY IN THE AMOUNT OF 0.86 PERCENT FOR EACH MONTH OF FY 05/06 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 06 1) A PAY ADJUSTMENT OF 3.42 PERCENT AND 2) A 1.0 PERCENT INCREASE TO THE MILITARY FACTOR TO BRING IT IN LINE WITH THE RATE CURRENTLY BEING PAID TO NCMS 


FOR MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS (LT(N)/CAPT TO CMDRE/BGEN) 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 05, AN ECONOMIC ADJUSTMENT OF 2.8 PERCENT 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 06 1) AN ECONOMIC ADJUSTMENT OF 3.0 PERCENT 2) AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE SPECIAL MILITARY DIFFERENTIAL FOR MEDICAL OFFICERS AS FOLLOWS I. REG F - INCREASED TO 20,002 DOLLARS PER YEAR II. RES F - INCREASED TO 55 DOLLARS PER DAY 3) AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE SPECIAL MILITARY DIFFERENTIAL FOR DENTAL OFFICERS AS FOLLOWS I. REG F - INCREASED TO 10,013 DOLLARS PER YEAR II. RES F - INCREASED TO 27 DOLLARS PER DAY 4) AN INCREASE TO THE SPECIALIST PAY DIFFERENTIAL FROM 15 PERCENT TO 20 PERCENT FOR CF MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS (LCDR/MAJ TO CAPT(N)/COL) WHO HOLD A CLINICAL SPECIALITY 5) A RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL GRADUATES WHO WISH TO PURSUE A CLINICAL SPECIALITY AND WHO ENROLL IN THE CANADIAN FORCES PRIOR TO LICENSING IN THE FOLLOWING AMOUNTS I. 215,000 DOLLARS FOR AN OFFICER REQUIRING ONE YEAR OF SUBSIDIZATION AND II. 180,000 DOLLARS FOR AN OFFICER REQUIRING TWO YEARS OF SUBSIDIZATION 


FOR LEGAL OFFICERS, SINCE THE RATE STRUCTURE FOR ALL LEVELS OF THE LA GROUP ARE STILL FROZEN, NO CHANGES TO THE SALARIES OF CF LEGAL OFFICERS CAN BE MADE AT THIS TIME 


EFFECTIVE 1 APR 06, ENVIRONMENTAL AND SPECIAL ALLOWANCES WILL INCREASE BY 3.94 PERCENT 


MOST ADJUSTMENTS SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE MID DEC 06 PAY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LUMP SUM PAYMENTS AND THE NEW CPO1/CWO PAY STRUCTURE AS PROGRAMMING CHANGES TO THE CCPS ARE FROZEN AS A RESULT OF THE PENSION MODERNIZATION EFFORTS. DETAILS ON PAYMENT OF THESE BENEFITS WILL BE PROVIDED AT A LATER DATE 


THE REVISED RATES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE TEMPORARY INTERNET SITE HTTP://WWW.FORCES.GC.CA/DGCB/DPPD/ENGRAPH/HOME(UNDERSCORE)E.ASP(QUESTION MARK)SIDE SECTION(EQUALSIGN)3 (USE SYMBOL FOR UNDERSCORE AND EQUAL SIGN) 


THE REVISED RATES WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE DGCB INTERNET SITE AT HTTP://WWW.FORCES.GC.CA/HR/DGCB/CBI AND ON THE INTRANET SITE AT HTTP://HR3.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/DGCB/CBI AT A LATER DATE


----------



## 043 (25 Oct 2006)

Gotta like more money!!!!!!! Can't wait till the wife gets promoted also!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dankai (25 Oct 2006)

"WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LUMP SUM PAYMENTS AND THE NEW CPO1/CWO PAY STRUCTURE AS PROGRAMMING CHANGES TO THE CCPS ARE FROZEN AS A RESULT OF THE PENSION MODERNIZATION EFFORTS"

Is the backpay this lump sum? If it is, I wonder when we will get that.


----------



## exgunnertdo (25 Oct 2006)

> "WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LUMP SUM PAYMENTS AND THE NEW CPO1/CWO PAY STRUCTURE AS PROGRAMMING CHANGES TO THE CCPS ARE FROZEN AS A RESULT OF THE PENSION MODERNIZATION EFFORTS"
> 
> Is the backpay this lump sum? If it is, I wonder when we will get that.





> FOR GSOS (CDR/LCOL AND BELOW), PILOTS (CDR/LCOL AND BELOW) AND MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS (A/SLT/2LT AND SLT/LT)
> 
> A RETROACTIVE LUMP SUM OF PAY IN THE AMOUNT OF 0.86 PERCENT FOR EACH MONTH OF FY 05/06



I believe this is the lump sum refered to...


----------



## Dankai (25 Oct 2006)

Okay, gotcha.  Thanks for clairfying that for me. Looking forward to spending some of this on Christmas gifts for the kiddo's


----------



## DavidAkin (25 Oct 2006)

OK -- so here's a couple of questions. If I was to do a news story on these raises, can anyone help me out with the following:
1. Does the CF pay better/worse than our NATO allies? Whose military has the gold-plated compensation package?
2. Is 2.62 per cent a fair raise? 

Happy to entertain all comments here or to dakin@ctv.ca.

Thanks -- and congratulations!


----------



## elminister (25 Oct 2006)

Ok this might seem dumb but here I go. If I did a CT from Reserve to Regular Force would they still give me my retro pay from the reserve from the date of pay raise?


----------



## gaspasser (25 Oct 2006)

DavidAkin said:
			
		

> OK -- so here's a couple of questions. If I was to do a news story on these raises, can anyone help me out with the following:
> 1. Does the CF pay better/worse than our NATO allies? Whose military has the gold-plated compensation package?
> 2. Is 2.62 per cent a fair raise?
> 
> ...


Hi David, 
     IMHO, 2.62% isn't bad considering the annual inflation rate is slightly higher and we have waited the usual 6 months but we get it backpaid (nice, just before Christmas). It is not always automatic.   Personally, I can't b*tch about our current pay scale/salary, I think we are paid higher than most NATO countries but we lag in other areas.  I have to pay for OHIP for my famiy whereas, I believe the US forces, get thier family health care at the base hospital. I pay high rent for base housing in accordance with the local economy, whereas other forces get free housing (rumour?) 
   Not sure about the gold-plated retirement package, haven't gotten to that point, yet.
   Also, I think they are trying to keep the retention rates up by paying us to stay in instead of getting out and either collecting our pensions or getting a job at the local gas bar.  
  My 0.02 worth.   GP


----------



## Haggis (25 Oct 2006)

elminister said:
			
		

> Ok this might seem dumb but here I go. If I did a CT from Reserve to Regular Force would they still give me my retro pay from the reserve from the date of pay raise?



Yes.  You do not lose entitilement to a retro pay raise, even if you release.


----------



## elminister (25 Oct 2006)

Thanks Haggis.


----------



## PhilB (25 Oct 2006)

Canada pays very well compared to many NATO countries. I believe, but could be wrong, that the only country with higher pay than us is Australia. I know on KAF we were definitly the envy of many yanks and brits for how much we are payed, especially for the overseas bonuses we receive


----------



## Rob221 (25 Oct 2006)

Here is a link to the new pay amounts

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dgcb/dppd/engraph/download_e.asp?docid=2&sidesection=3


----------



## BKells (25 Oct 2006)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> IMHO, 2.62% isn't bad considering the annual inflation rate is slightly higher



Inflation in Canada has been below 2.62% for the last few years. Currently it's at 1.7%

So, it's more then strictly an economic adjustment.

To the reporter: is 2.62% a fair raise? Considering we just had economic adjustment raises last year, and now we get another one, it's great. Non-union workers rarely see cost-of-living adjustments of this nature so frequently, let alone even those who are unionized. The raise is more then fair.


----------



## George Wallace (25 Oct 2006)

Rob221 said:
			
		

> Here is a link to the new pay amounts
> 
> http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dgcb/dppd/engraph/download_e.asp?docid=2&sidesection=3



Been posted a few times already......if you look at the final page that the PDF file is on, you will see that it matches http://www.dnd.ca/dgcb/dppd/engraph/Apr2006CF_payrates_e.pdf   which was posted three pages before this one.

So.....anyone wanting to post more links......please check first that they have not already been posted.


----------



## Rob221 (25 Oct 2006)

Sorry George, I just noticed that it has already been posted


----------



## Combat Sailor (25 Oct 2006)

Now that this one is taken care of...has anyone heard anything on the new PLD rates?


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## Combat Sailor (25 Oct 2006)

From what I read on the canforgen, the pay adjustment (retro pay included) should be in by mid December pay.


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## The_Falcon (25 Oct 2006)

DavidAkin said:
			
		

> OK -- so here's a couple of questions. If I was to do a news story on these raises, can anyone help me out with the following:
> 1. Does the CF pay better/worse than our NATO allies? Whose military has the gold-plated compensation package?



Here are the links to the US, UK, and Australian (I know not NATO, but they are included in ABCA) pay rates

http://www.dod.mil/dfas/militarypay/newinformation/WebPayTableVersion2006updated.pdf
http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/index.html
http://www.defence.gov.au/dpe/dpe_site/Pay_Allow_Mar_06.pdf

There difficulty in determining who has the better pay, 1) comparing rank structure, a Coporal in the Canadian Force may be at a different Pay Level than say a Corporal in the US or UK and visa versa.  2) Certain Bonus and Allowances (ie parachutist, overseas, hardship, post living differential etc.) may come into play.  While one country may have an allowance to offset the expenses for living in area with a high cost of living (which we do and it's called Post Living Diffirential or PLD for short), another country may not. 3)Taxation and Cost of Living are different not only from country to country, but within country as well.  There are probably quite a few other things I missed (Supplementary Health Care, Education etc.) but I think you get the idea that its not that easy comparing pay from country to another




> 2. Is 2.62 per cent a fair raise?
> 
> Happy to entertain all comments here or to dakin@ctv.ca.
> 
> Thanks -- and congratulations!



Again fair raise in comparison to what?  To me, first you would need to sort out the regular occupations and the specialist occupations, because the latter of which received an additional raise on top of the 2.62%.  Second you would have to look at all the different occupations in the CF and compare them to  what thier civillian counterparts/equivalents earn,(and this is if they even have something comparable in the civillian world, some occupations like infantry have no equvialent), while taking in rank and experience as both of these increase your pay.  Even still you might still have a wide gap in pay between the CF and the civy world.  Example, our Medical Technicians most direct civillian equivalent are Paramedics.  By the time a Medical Technician is fully qualified they could be at the Pte 3 or Cpl 1 end of the payscale, which now translates into around 47k-50k without any additional allowances.  Civy Side a brand new fully qualified Paramedic can earn anywhere from the high 30k range to just over 60k, as a starting salary, depending on where in the country they are and which service they work for.  Third I would look into what the average pay increase has been for both private sector, and public sector employees, union and non-union.

So as you can see if you planned on doing a story, your going to need to do some serious number crunching, if you wish to portray an accurate picture.  Know any good accountants?


----------



## COBRA-6 (25 Oct 2006)

DavidAkin said:
			
		

> OK -- so here's a couple of questions. If I was to do a news story on these raises, can anyone help me out with the following:
> 1. Does the CF pay better/worse than our NATO allies? Whose military has the gold-plated compensation package?
> 2. Is 2.62 per cent a fair raise?
> 
> ...



Please note that increases in the CF pay scales are linked to the public service pay scales. I have no idea how this is done, your best bet is to talk to someone at DCBA. They are the ones that come up with the numbers.

The CF is one of the best paid military forces in the _world_, as well we should be IMHO, as we are one of the most professional. But as Hatchet Man stated, side-by-side comparisons are difficult due to different rank structures, terms of service, etc...


----------



## Edward Campbell (25 Oct 2006)

For David Akin and all youngsters:

Waaaay back when inflation was at 15%+ and mortgage rates were close to 20%, and a fellow named Jean Chrétien was finance minister, and _dumbazz_ the petty, provincial, pseudo-intellectual poltroon was prime minister, pay raises were about 3%.

There was an _arm’s length_ board which recommended military pay scales.  It recommended that pay rise towards something within shouting distance of the inflation rate.  The government of the day was horrified: “What!?!  Pay soldiers a decent wage!?!  Go away!  They’re here for the romance, not the finance.  2% will do nicely.”

The CDS and MND of the day finally got a system of public service _comparability_ past cabinet.  _Benchmarks_ were used – one was lieutenant colonel and a senior grade of an engineer in the public service and another was related to public service draughtsmen and military engineer NCOs I seem to recall.  The real key was the two year delay – the military got whatever the PS had achieved in its last round of bargaining – which was, usually two years before the military pay raise was due.

I doubt much has changed.

The system was meant to be fairly mechanistic so that the politicians could not do too much serious harm – no matter how much our fellow citizens wanted to have us all marched over the hill to the poor house.

It worked.  During my career (35+ years) we went from being very highly paid by allied (Australia, UK and US) standards to being bloody poorly paid, by the same standards, to being, once again I think, quite adequately paid by those same standards.  I’m not sure how the entire pay/benefits package stacks up.


----------



## GAP (27 Oct 2006)

Edward Campbell said:
			
		

> For David Akin and all youngsters:



Well, it sounds like David was reading it too....this from the bottom of his blog report just before the comments section in today's paper



> Some interesting discussion on this issue and reaction from serving members at the venerable Army.ca  board.
> 
> Posted to:  Main Page
> David Akin


http://politicsblog.ctv.ca/blog/_archives/2006/10/26/2448922.html


----------



## TN2IC (27 Oct 2006)

ParaMedTech said:
			
		

> IF that's the case, I call shenanigans.  Well, maybe not shenanigans, but BS.





Shenanigans! shenanigans! shenanigans!

Cheers,
TN2IC


----------



## armywife/cadetmom (27 Oct 2006)

does the CANFORGEN say YES or NO about the back pay being out mid december?  THe Lumpsum thing being delayed is why i ask, but i believe that refers to the Officer thing.


----------



## Dankai (27 Oct 2006)

Im not sure where you read that it wont be in.  It states in the canforgen that the lump sum payment for the officers (that .08% from last years fiscal year) and cwo's will not be in that pay.   The whole unit has already been told as well, to look for BY dec 15


----------



## Torlyn (27 Oct 2006)

armywife/cadetmom said:
			
		

> but you wouldnt believe how many wives are!  If these people rely on our wonderful (cough) Government to have those funds in our accounts December 15th and it isnt there, all *H* will break loose, as its going to Distroy Christmas for those people who are counting on it to Christmas shop.



Um...  All due respect, but if a member (or spouse) goes ahead and spends money before it's actually in the bank, who's fault is it?  We've been waiting since 01 APR 06 for an increase.  I think members can wait a little bit longer.  What would all of these spouses do if the raise was only 1%, or non-existent?  If not recieving this money is going to destroy Christmas, someone did some piss-poor planning leading up to the holidays.  I know it sucks having to wait, but as I'm sure you and other spouses are aware, the game is "hurry up and wait".  

T


----------



## Dankai (27 Oct 2006)

I agree.  How many times have we been told to not belive it 'till we see it.  I know with the rate things change in the CF - Im not going to start "spending more" in hopes that everything will go smoothly.


----------



## armywife/cadetmom (27 Oct 2006)

Does the CANFORGEN spcifically state it WILL be there? All it does say is that the new wage will be instated.


----------



## George Wallace (27 Oct 2006)

ENOUGH!

LADIES

It does have a lot to do with "Piss Poor Planning".  If it had not been annouced, you would still have to budget for Christmas and the New Year.  Just because it has now been announced, you do not have to 'Spend' it, nor budget with it.  You wouldn't have got it, had it not been announce, and you still don't have it.  If there is a problem with the Pay System, data entry, natural disaster, act of God, etc., this money may still not arrive until the New Year.  

So act fiscally and pretend that you do not have the money (because you don't) and budget as if you have not heard about getting it.  


DO NOT SPEND MONEY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE!


----------



## Dankai (27 Oct 2006)

wow, calm down!     
As for the canforgen I think most of us here interpreted it the same way. I dont think they have to write down every single little detail. What they said was enough for me to understand, others here to understand,  and even the units here understand.
We too have a lot of those issues going on, with both children needing specialists (ds neurologist, neurosurgeon, orthopedist, genetcists, etc) and have to drive 2 hours to go, get sitters still, also with the ortho only being at shriners in Montreal and we have to pay out of pocket for some of those expenses and whatnot - we still have to plan . But I plan with the funds that we actually have.  As I said, we've all heard many times not to count on what we hear. I wont budget that money in until its in my account.  Thats just me though.


----------



## George Wallace (27 Oct 2006)

This is not the 'Wive's Net' and not the place for any spouse to be questioning the Member's Pay.  That is the concern of the Member and the Pay System on an individual basis, and the Member and his/her spouse on an individual basis.  Two separate and diverse options.  It is not a matter for any spouse to be speculating or whining about on the Internet.


----------



## armywife/cadetmom (27 Oct 2006)

I guess i should put my apron back on and get back in the kitchen then, soo sorry to have questions regarding this, especially since i control the finances in this house....ill try to remember that a 'spouse' has no right to question the all powerful Man, or the Military... or heaven forbid, look for awnsers on the net from Military Men, who might know the awnser~


----------



## Remius (27 Oct 2006)

Ok, I don't think that's what he meant.  Sorry to hear about your condition, I have some good friends and family that have gone through it, anyway you put it it sucks.

I realise that pay is important and when we hear about a raise we want it.  but the CF took so long because they negotiated the best deal with TB to get what we are getting.  When we get it we'll have it and we'll be better off.  The thing is too, is that the CF can't be responsible for everyone's social condition.  I'm a single dad, but that's not the CFs fault is it?


----------



## armyvern (27 Oct 2006)

armywife/cadetmom said:
			
		

> I guess i should put my apron back on and get back in the kitchen then, soo sorry to have questions regarding this, especially since i control the finances in this house....
> "BAD HOUSE WIFE.......BAD!! Dont question or complain about MAN THINGS!"



No one questioned you about man things...or accused you of being a bad house-wife. They said to take your spats somewhere else.

And I suggest that your husband is obviously the one in the Military. You have specific questions regarding his pay, or are unsure whether or not it will be in his account, then have him check his pay through his pay office. Because his pay office will be the ones to answer specific questions regarding their procedures and regarding his specific pay. Don't contact them yourself, they won't answer...it's his pay. I would hope that he's at least able to do that without your assistance.

And, I too am sorry to hear about what's occuring to you. But I'd like to say, that being a female myself, I have real big problems with women who like to play the "housewife/woman not as good as man thing", when it's totally uncalled for.


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## the 48th regulator (27 Oct 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> No one questioned you about man things...or accused you of being a bad house-wife. They said to take your spats somewhere else.
> 
> And I suggest that your husband is obviously the one in the Military. You have specific questions regarding his pay, or are unsure whether or not it will be in his account, then have him check his pay through his pay office. Because his pay office will be the ones to answer specific questions regarding their procedures and regarding his specific pay. Don't contact them yourself, they won't answer...it's his pay. I would hope that he's at least able to do that without your assistance.
> 
> And, I too am sorry to hear about what's occuring to you. But I'd like to say, that being a female myself, I have real big problems with women who like to play the "housewife/woman not as good as man thing", when it's totally uncalled for.



Here here,

Plus one on that.

And on a Moderators note, let's keep this with the theme of the thread, otherwise a lock.

dileas

tess


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## armywife/cadetmom (27 Oct 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This is not the 'Wive's Net' and not the place for any spouse to be questioning the Member's Pay.  That is the concern of the Member and the Pay System on an individual basis, and the Member and his/her spouse on an individual basis.  Two separate and diverse options.  It is not a matter for any spouse to be speculating or whining about on the Internet.



Your kidding me right!  all the BS out there regarding our Military fighting for us to say what we want, and then the same people tell you shut up.  My husband, the Military Member, the one who gets the military pay cheque has read this and thinks its a crock!  I asked a simple question, it was blown apart, i have editted my posts to be back on thread, but you know what, i AM a strong idependant woman, i dont feel that i should be lesser, thats WHY my post about the kitchen is in Sacastic tone,  George, would you tell your wife the same thing you have told me?  Maybe the CF should send out a Broadcast Mail so all CF members can let their Spouses know they are not allowed to Whine on the internet.


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## Remius (27 Oct 2006)

Ok, you are turning this into something that it isn't.  Your original post was more of a rant, thus the response you got.  Now to answer your question it states that most adjustments would be reflected in the mid dec pay.

Cheers


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## Dankai (27 Oct 2006)

Hmmm, maybe I should go edit my reply as well to her since the responses now dont make any sense to what she originally brought up, lol.  But nah, I wont.
I dont see any point in changing your posts as you did to make it go back "on topic" when you went off and said that to George Wallace and just continued on being off topic.

In any case if you have any questions as to when it will be - just have your husband ask at work as others have suggested if you want "real" answers. 

I know thats what fellow friends at work did - went in and asked to get an answer there.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Oct 2006)

armywife/cadetmom said:
			
		

> Your kidding me right!  all the BS out there regarding our Military fighting for us to say what we want, and then the same people tell you shut up.  My husband, the Military Member, the one who gets the military pay cheque has read this and thinks its a crock!  I asked a simple question, it was blown apart, i have editted my posts to be back on thread, but you know what, i AM a strong idependant woman, i dont feel that i should be lesser, thats WHY my post about the kitchen is in Sacastic tone,  George, would you tell your wife the same thing you have told me?  Maybe the CF should send out a Broadcast Mail so all CF members can let their Spouses know they are not allowed to Whine on the internet.



Did he read it BEFORE you edited out your initial rant and the other posters responded to that?   Bad internet form.......


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## armywife/cadetmom (27 Oct 2006)

im sorry if my origional post came out as a rant, i was wondering What the general opinion was among Members, so i and my MW friends would know whats going on.  Where my DH works, they dont know, so i asked here.  If my husband had asked the same thing, NOONE would have jumped on him like this.  You also cant tell me Pay cant be discussed when this thread is ELEVEN pages long.  THere are a number fo people who have jumped on things i say, treating me like a bloody IDIOT because i am not CF.  
WHy have non service members been allowed onto Army.ca when we are not allowed to ask questions or offer input? 

Yes my husband read the origional of every post.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Oct 2006)

armywife/cadetmom said:
			
		

> If my husband had asked the same thing, NOONE would have jumped on him like this.



If you had ASKED, no one would have jumped on you.     OK, apology accepted .........back on topic


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## Remius (27 Oct 2006)

It was the way you asked.  Anyway I gave you the answer a few posts back and that's from the CANFORGEN. 

looking forward to that backpay.  If it comes before x-mas the happier we'll all be.  If not, it's still money and I won't complain.

I am more than happy with my pay for what I do.


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## mover1 (27 Oct 2006)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> Comparing pay between allied countries is very difficult, besides what is the point?



The point is to let the people of Canada know that they are getting adequate bang for thier buck.


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## Remius (27 Oct 2006)

I disagree with that.  I think if you start comparing then you have to look at benefits, cost of living, deployments and taskings etc etc.  i think you have to look within Canada and how we live, not other countries.


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## armywife/cadetmom (27 Oct 2006)

i agree with Crantor as Geography makes all the difference just in Canada.  We make a decent living where we are, but if we were posted West, we couldnt do it financially.


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## Sub_Guy (27 Oct 2006)

Housing is the only thing that is more expensive out here on the west coast, if you can crack the real estate market you are in, then any posting out east should be easy... Although housing prices are creeping up all over the place!


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## mover1 (27 Oct 2006)

Crantor said:
			
		

> I disagree with that.  I think if you start comparing then you have to look at benefits, cost of living, deployments and taskings etc etc.  i think you have to look within Canada and how we live, not other countries.



That is true however in order to appease the average Canadian with little or no military knowlege or background, this information would be usefull by giving them a warm fuzzy that we are not ripping them off.


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## dapaterson (30 Oct 2006)

One other interesting point:

Since the tax free amount on deployed missions is tied to the maxinum earnings of an NCM, the introduction of new pay scales for the Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer means that a number of officers will see their tax-free take increased.

With the CFCWO pay topping out at $7590 per month, that means officers up to Major IPC 1 (general service officers) will see 100% of their pay tax-free when deployed on missions.  That used to top out for Captain IPC 5 or 6.

Note that this is my interpretation of the rules, after reviewing the regulations from Sept 2004; DND's central beancounters have yet to announce this.



> The deduction will be limited to the lesser of the employment income earned while serving on the mission and the maximum rate of pay earned by a non-commissioned member of the Canadian Forces to the extent that the employment income is included in computing the taxpayer's income for the year.
> 
> http://www.fin.gc.ca/drleg/ITAn_08-04_2e.html


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## Tewkster (31 Oct 2006)

I got posted this summer.  Since the pay raise is effective Apr 1, does this affect the posting allowance which is based on the member's pay?


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## shadow (31 Oct 2006)

That's a good question.  I assumed so, but RLRS told me no because it's backdated pay and it says in the benefits guide that backdated pay doesn't apply.  But we KNEW we were getting a raise April 1st (just not how much), so I think it should apply.
I guess we'll have to write to DCBA to find out on that one, unless anyone has heard otherwise?
Shadow


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## George Wallace (31 Oct 2006)

Tewkster said:
			
		

> I got posted this summer.  Since the pay raise is effective Apr 1, does this affect the posting allowance which is based on the member's pay?



Unless there is a RMS Clerk on the site to answer that, you are best to ask your clerk at work and inquire at IRRP.


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## Dankai (31 Oct 2006)

No, it wont affect it.   That happend to us last year from Kingston to Winnipeg - and we didnt get the new amounts.

And we just came back from IRP today finalizing our claim here in Greenwood and we were told the same thing.  If you get told otherwise, let me know  >


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## PiperDown (2 Nov 2006)

I was posted a couple of years ago, and we received a pay raise in sept (retro to april 1st) I was posted in july, and received the old rate for my posting allowance.. However, almost 5 months later, I received a cheque in the mail from IRPP, making up for the adjusted pay rate.
So, yes, if the pay raise is retro to april 1st, and you are posted before our new pay goes into effect. IRPP will eventually get the difference to you.. It just may take a while (like it did in my case)

Cheers,


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## Dankai (2 Nov 2006)

Thats odd!  We didnt in winnipeg and neither did anyone else in the course.  We were all told we were SOL. We all got posted in Aug 04 and the pay was announced in the fall and it was retro Apr 1


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## Bruce Monkhouse (2 Nov 2006)

Any benefits based on your salary should  be retro'ed with your pay unless otherwise stated in the [ I know you don't have one but for lack of a better term] 'collective agreement'. 


Something as important as this should not be left to individual pay offices to sort out as they see fit. Someone should go find out the 'official word' and post it here.


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## shadow (2 Nov 2006)

I was promoted as of May 1st, and I received the difference in pay in terms of a posting allowance, so why not get the difference in the pay raise?
I will see what I can find out from Ottawa.
Cheers
Shadow

Edit:
In case anyone is wondering, this is where the "no" answer comes from through IRPP.
Addendum 11.08 of the APS 2006 Guide says:

_Effective Rate of Posting Allowance

The effective rate of posting allowance of an officer or non-comissioned member is the amount of the monthly rate of pay of the member on the change of strength date (COS).

*Subsequent to the COS date, retroactive pay increase does not apply to posting allowance.*

Pay statement or pay rates provided after the COS date will not be used to calculate the PA.

Note: Relocation Consultant will request member's appropriate pay rate from the support unit as per the COS date._

The bolded part is where the Relocation Consultant told me that I wouldn't get the money.  According to IRPP there is a difference between retro pay and back pay, and we do not get the retro pay towards our posting allowance.


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## Tewkster (2 Nov 2006)

I will inquire further at my unit.  There's obviously no standard set if some units back-date and others don't.  Hopefully Dankai can look into getting some kind of refund if they do back-date the posting allowance.


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## shadow (2 Nov 2006)

It's not the unit that does it, it's Royal Lepage Relocation Services.


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## Tewkster (3 Nov 2006)

I got in touch with IRPP at my unit (Shearwater) and they quoted from the book that any pay increase after the COS date does not apply to the posting allowance.  Therefore, officially there are no back-date in posting allowance once a pay increase is announced.  Maybe they should change the posting season to December, hahaha.


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## reccecrewman (3 Nov 2006)

And here we are on November 3rd........... with still no definite answer on how much and more importantly, _WHEN_ we'll be seeing that pay raise.......... Makes me laugh anyway........... If they owe you money, they can take their sweet time getting it to you, but boy o boy, if you owe them money...........


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## Sub_Guy (3 Nov 2006)

Mid Dec pay

2.62%

And the online pay guide was updated the day the pay raise was announced.


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## Whit3 (8 Nov 2006)

Well once again Canada's federal budget is around the corner and that has meant increase in pay for the passed few years. As a reservist I am aware of the 2.6% raise for which will be retroactive from April/2006. I was told by my Platoon Warrent that this is to take affect Dec.12th/06, I'm just curious if this date of finalization is true and will it be deposited that pay week (Dec.15/06)?


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## geo (8 Nov 2006)

That's what they said but........ they may be on time OR they may be late (never expect em to be early)


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## PoPo (8 Nov 2006)

Tewkster said:
			
		

> I got posted this summer.  Since the pay raise is effective Apr 1, does this affect the posting allowance which is based on the member's pay?



I just perused the CFIRP booklet and found the following in Addendum 11 para 8 (Effective Rate of Posting Allowance
regards to posting allowances/backdated pay)



> The effective rate of posting allowance of an officer or non-commissioned member is the amount of the monthly rate of pay of the member on the change of strength (COS) date.
> 
> Subsequent to the COS date, retroactive pay increase does not apply to posting allowance.



Funny, back in the day (before IRP) I remember completing supplementary posting allowance forms were on each member giving them the backdated portion of the posting allowance.

Things change... PoPo


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## 404SqnAVSTeach (29 Nov 2006)

The numbers are in the Computer... You can check them thru you local RMS Clerk...


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## PiperDown (29 Nov 2006)

404SqnAVSTeach said:
			
		

> The numbers are in the Computer... You can check them thru you local RMS Clerk...



Quick everyone... form a big line and run to your RMS clerk.  I am sure they will be more than happy to answer the same questions for 600 or 700 people in the next 15 days.

Why can people wait until their pay statement comes out? Then, if there is a problem, see your RMS clerk.


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## vonGarvin (29 Nov 2006)

Ah, but what's a pre-pay raise era like WITHOUT that rush to the RMS clerks!


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## PhilB (15 Dec 2006)

Hi guys, so its the 15th now and surprise surprise I did not receive my pay raise. I have talked with a bunch of other guys in my unit and non of us received the money in our accounts. 

I am just wondering if the date has been pushed back, and if so to when, or if this is a problem that need to be corrected.

Cheers,

Phil


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## honestyrules (15 Dec 2006)

PhilB,

Us is Gagetown got ours today.


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## Dankai (15 Dec 2006)

Everyone I know here in Greenwood got theirs today


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## aesop081 (15 Dec 2006)

Reg force got their back Pay....


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## HCA (15 Dec 2006)

Medic's of the far far West got theirs.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (16 Dec 2006)

PhilB said:
			
		

> Hi guys, so its the 15th now and surprise surprise I did not receive my pay raise. I have talked with a bunch of other guys in my unit and non of us received the money in our accounts.
> 
> I am just wondering if the date has been pushed back, and if so to when, or if this is a problem that need to be corrected.
> 
> ...



Halifax...got mine and the back pay ;D


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## reccecrewman (16 Dec 2006)

It may take a couple weeks longer for the militia to see theirs.  Now that the backpay has been given and there is a concrete date to work with, they now have to go through your entire Battalion's records and figure out how many days/half days you and each other member worked since 1 April.  That may take a bit of time.  I'm no RMS Clerk by any means, but I'm just guessing that would be what the delay is.  Also just a guess, but you should see it NLT 15 Jan.  Good luck.


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## geo (16 Dec 2006)

Reservists on Cl B & on Cl A have received on mid month pay (in LFQA)


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## reccecrewman (16 Dec 2006)

And with that, it could well be just a select few that were left out (overlooked)  Well, the long awaited raise that this thread was opened for has finally come........... I guess this thread has run it's course.

*LOCKED*

Let's try that again.......

*LOCKED*

Oh yeah........... That requires superpowers which I don't have. Oh well.  ;D


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## George Wallace (16 Dec 2006)

You are sooooo right.

Locked.......


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