# US to close fast food in Afghan bases - Timmies & Greenbean will stay



## GAP (25 Mar 2010)

Top U.S. general in Afghanistan gives order: Close TGI Friday's
By DION NISSENBAUM McClatchy Newspapers
Article Link

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- By American standards, the boardwalk at Kandahar Airfield isn't much to write home about.

There's no roller coaster, mirror maze or carousel with unicorns. There's no cotton candy to buy, no candied apples and no annoying mimes trying to get out of imaginary boxes.

But this little square of Western culture in the Taliban heartland has served for years as a rare oasis for international forces embroiled in the ongoing Afghan war.

The Kandahar boardwalk now has a Burger King, a Subway sandwich shop, three cafes, several general stores, a Cold Stone Creamery, Oakley sunglasses outlet, a hockey rink (thanks to the Canadians, of course), a basketball court, and a tiny stage where members of Bachman-Turner Overdrive (the '70s Canadian band that brought the world "Takin' Care of Business" and "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet") recently performed on a cool southern Afghanistan evening.

The most recent addition is a TGI Friday's, complete with the Americana kitsch, Rihanna videos playing on the flat screen behind the bar (which serves no alcohol), fried mozzarella sticks and a life-size Yoda action figure with a light saber looking down on patrons from on high.

"The intent, it seems, is to create a surreal slice of Western material comfort where inhabitants can momentarily forget that they are living in one of the world's most benighted countries," Julius Cavendish recently wrote in The Independent, a British newspaper.

Well, now it's time to say goodbye to all that.

By the order of Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, the International Security Assistance Force, or ISAF, is shutting down most of these reminders of home.

"This is a war zone - not an amusement park," Command Sgt. Maj. Michael T. Hall recently wrote on the ISAF blog.

The decision is likely to prove unpopular with ISAF forces working and living in southern Afghanistan.
More on link


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## PMedMoe (25 Mar 2010)

> The new order exempts the Green Beans coffee house



I wonder if the Tim Hortons will be on the chopping block?  Judging from the line-ups normally encountered, I think not.


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## Strike (25 Mar 2010)

> Rock concerts, *hockey games * and Americana kitsch in the Taliban heartland might not create the impression McChrystal is trying to convey that the U.S. has no intentions of transforming Afghanistan into the U.S.



So, does that mean no more USO tours and the equivalent from other countries' entertainers?  As for the hockey games, that would be an interesting one to see them stop.   ;D


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## Occam (25 Mar 2010)

_War is hell._

~General William Tecumseh Sherman

 ;D


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## vonGarvin (25 Mar 2010)

Awesome.  Maintenance of Morale.


I suppose everyone in KAF should wear full up Chem Warfare gear, you know, to remind that that this is a war.


I suppose also that the ramp ceremonies, the constant jets and helicopters coming and going, the rocket attacks, etc just don't do enough to remind people that there is a war on?


(I thought it was a counter-insurgency operation, not a "war" as such.)


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## eurowing (25 Mar 2010)

I missed BTO????  Fridays doesn't impress me at all.  I won't miss it, but I imagine some will.


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## The Bread Guy (25 Mar 2010)

Nice to see McClatchy wire svc catching up to Reuters, which covered this about five months ago
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90120.0.html

Re:


			
				Technoviking said:
			
		

> I suppose also that the ramp ceremonies, the constant jets and helicopters coming and going, the rocket attacks, etc just don't do enough to remind people that there is a war on?
> 
> (I thought it was a counter-insurgency operation, not a "war" as such.)


here's an interesting quote from the Reuters' piece


> .... Brigadier-General Daniel Ivan Schultz, the airfield's most senior U.S. commander, said frontline troops live in austere conditions and there was a perception that staff at Kandahar "don't do anything."
> 
> "We need to kill that perception," he said.


I leave it to those with more experience than I have to opine on who's "perception" is being referred to here, rightly or wrongly.

Also, here's a link to Command SGT-MAJ Hill's blog post referred to in the story so you can read the REST of the story in context (PDF attached in case the link doesn't work) - here's a bit more the post with more details and the rationale:


> .... Many of you have heard that there are plans to shut down some of the “amenities” throughout Afghanistan.  This is not rumor. It is fact.  This is a warzone – not an amusement park.  From the moment GEN McChrystal and I arrived in Afghanistan last summer, we began looking for ways to do things more efficiently across the battlefield – the optimization of ISAF. This effort includes moving and reallocating resources to better accomplish our mission.
> 
> One of the ways we’re going to do that -- in order to accommodate the troop increase and get re-focused on the mission at hand -- is to cut back on some of the nonessentials. That includes some of the morale, welfare and recreation facilities throughout Afghanistan.  In the coming weeks and months, concessions such as Orange Julius, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and Military Car Sales will close their doors.
> 
> Other changes will not be so obvious. We will also reduce the amount of canned and bottled goods coming into country, as well as first-run movie showings and non-USO entertainment shows .... Closing these facilities will free up much-needed storage facilities at both Bagram and Kandahar, space which is critical as 30,000 additional American and up to 7,000 international troops flow into Afghanistan over the next several months ....


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## eurowing (25 Mar 2010)

TGI Fridays only opened about 2 to 3 months ago.  It is brand new.


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## GAP (25 Mar 2010)

We heard the same bitches that come up about KAF about Da Nang, Quang Tri, Choi Hoi, Saigon, etc. (yesteryear) ......the troops stationed in these places were living in luxury compared to us in the boonies.... :

Well, gee.....we sure enjoyed going to China Beach, NCO clubs, girls, girls, etc....but it didn't kill us most times......

I haven't heard of any rabid abuse on a massive scale, so I think it will come back to bite them in the arse....


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## Strike (25 Mar 2010)

I'm confused as to how they can cancel karaoke and salsa dancing when they were organized and run by volunteers serving in KAF -- some of whom weren't even American.

One does have to wonder what Military Car Sales was doing in KAF.    ???  There didn't seem to be any mention of closing down the Russian massage parlour that AAFES runs.


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## vonGarvin (25 Mar 2010)

I get it that they want to perhaps eliminate the perception of "inequality".  But, it's not just KAF-ites who enjoy those amenities.  And truth be told, though I was a KAF-ite for 7.5 months, the time I spent at the boardwalk was few and far between: I was too busy.  But, for troops coming in from the FOBs, they went to Burger King, etc, to enjoy a bit of "delight", to "get away from it all."  I'm pretty sure that now they (The Fobbits) will no more make fun of or deride the KAF-ites. :


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## PMedMoe (25 Mar 2010)

eurowing said:
			
		

> TGI Fridays only opened about 2 to 3 months ago.  It is brand new.


It wasn't even open when I was there in December last year.  That didn't last long.


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## 40below (25 Mar 2010)

Will the Americans also be closing the swimming facilities at Emerald Lake?


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## hauger (25 Mar 2010)

Meh.  Standard military behavior: if there's a way to suck the fun out of something, the military will.

I think the next move should be to make all shower water ice cold, you know, so you'll miss home that much more when your there.


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## GAP (25 Mar 2010)

Uhhh.....is that the showers for the Emerald Lake swim beach?


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## Gunner98 (25 Mar 2010)

Far be it from me to question a General and Comd SM, sitting in the glitz of Kabul, about their judgment of what spoils the troops in KAF should enjoy.  Someone with one or more stars approves these concessionaires' bids/contracts and will likely pay for breach of contract.  Meanwhile someone else will occupy the concession stand under the radar.  Like TechV, I too spent 7 months inside the KAF wire and found little comfort from the presence of BK, Subway, Tim's (I don't drink coffee - ever) or Pizza Hut, but I know the Yanks and others sure made the most of the artery clogging food.


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## The Bread Guy (25 Mar 2010)

....according to CanWest/Global:


> Canada's Tim Hortons coffee shop at Kandahar Airfield will remain open despite a shutdown of Pizza Hut, Burger King and other U.S. outlets deemed too luxurious by top American commanders of NATO troops.
> 
> "Kandahar Airfield Tim Hortons is an initiative to support our men and women in uniform for serving in Afghanistan," Defence Department spokeswoman Megan MacLean said. "There are no plans to close the Tim Hortons."
> 
> Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, who leads the International Security Assistance Force, has ordered most fast-food outlets on the boardwalk inside the airfield base shuttered ....


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## eurowing (25 Mar 2010)

Actually, if this turns out to actually happen, I will miss TGI Fridays.  It will mean the line up at the DFAC will be just that much longer.


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## vonGarvin (25 Mar 2010)

"Nothing is too good for the troops, and that's exactly what they'll get: nothing!"


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## Towards_the_gap (25 Mar 2010)

I will play devils advocate here and say...Good.

Most on here seem to have missed a critical point in the original article which ran along the lines of 'optimization of ISAF assets', which I read to say 'trimming the fat'. how much time, energy, effort and money is spent to ensure these fast food chains are kep supplied, watered and air conditioned? Is it really that critical to troops morale? I can live 8 months without fast food. Surely others can. There is wide enough choice of what to eat (for free, and remarkably good tasting too) at the varieties of DFACs scattered about.


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## Dog Walker (25 Mar 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I wonder if the Tim Hortons will be on the chopping block?  Judging from the line-ups normally encountered, I think not.



It appears that it will be moved to a new location.



> The Canadian Forces is in the final stages of a plan to build a new Tim Hortons trailer. It will be roughly double the size of the existing one and be located in the Canadian compound rather than its present spot on KAF’s multinational boardwalk market. It will be more convenient for the Canadians, much less so for other NATO troops.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/kandahar-airfield-without-canadiana/article1501507/


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## SeanNewman (25 Mar 2010)

I will be the first guy to admit that despite the rockets, my 90% of tour on KAF was unquestionably "softer" than someone who was out doing the business.  That can't be argued, really, because the statistics state that KAF is safer than any similar sized city in North America.

However, as much as I did the KAF tour once a week for a couple hours (typically rug shopping), what Technoviking said above is bang on.  Yes, when there's an op there is no mistaking the troops are living hell-on-earth, but they also then go back to decompressing at the end of the op for a bit at a place like FMG that serve Hagen Daaz ice cream.

Are there floppers on KAF?  Of course, but I personally witnessed that guy putting in essentially 16-hour days for seven months with no breaks.  No late report Sundays, no Christmas off, a dozen ramp ceremonies, and yes 50+ rockets. 

So yes the potential exists to exploit KAF's services if you don't have a strong work ethic, but I do also think that it's great for the troops who want to use those places to have them available on their down time.

I love 99% of everything Comd ISAF has ever done, but I don't think the guys outside the wire need to be reminded that they're at war, be them Infantry on the OMLT or Log-types running CLPs through IED ambushes.  Give the poor guys a break from that whenever you can.


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## PMedMoe (26 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> statistics state that KAF is safer than any similar sized city in North America.


Only because of the low* crime rate, I'm betting.  I doubt that any similar sized North American city gets frequent rocket attacks.

*I say low because when I was there, there were incidents if drugs, sexual assaults, etc.  As a matter of fact, people (females in particular) were told not to walk in certain areas alone, day or night.


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## 392 (26 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Yes, when there's an op there is no mistaking the troops are living hell-on-earth, but they also then go back to decompressing at the end of the op for a bit at a place like FMG that serve Hagen Daaz ice cream.



I'm not sure what decompressing you refer to in FMG? I will agree that the soldiers not going back into the BG QRF rotation at the end of an Op may have had a bit of time for maintenance and refit, but for the most part, there's no "decompression" in any of the FOBs. And for the record, the little Hagen Daaz single serving ice creams don't even come close to equating to what's available on the boardwalk or elsewhere in KAF. Every little amenity helps, but it's not the same.

What do I base this off of? I spent the better part of 3-08 in FMG running my hole off before being ordered into KAF to complete the last couple months of my tour, so I've seen both sides of the fence. The one thing that the fellas out in the FOBs do have going for them, is the distinct lack of brass who have nothing better to do than pick up on dress points  > but I digress....

Anyways, I don't necessarily agree with closing all of these down so the troops coming in from the FOBs can still unwind a bit, but I do agree with "streamlining" that footprint...


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## Yrys (26 Mar 2010)

Nato axes Afghan junk food joints at key bases






The aim is to 'optimise' efficiency at 
bases like Bagram


Burger bars and pizza joints in Nato bases across Afghanistan are 
being closed down in an effort "to increase efficiency across the 
battlefield". A Nato spokesman said that "amenities" at bases 
across the country are being phased out for logistical reasons. He 
said officials at each base will decide exactly when they are axed.

Nato's top Afghanistan commander, Gen Stanley McChrystal, 
made it clear last year that the days of Burger King and Pizza 
Hut on Isaf bases were numbered. He expressed concern that 
burger bars, pizza restaurants and other stores in large 
International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) bases at Kandahar, 
Bagram and Mazar-e-Sharif served as a distraction to the military 
mission.

*'Get refocussed'*
"For several months now we have been in the process of bringing 
39,000 extra troops to Afghanistan - in addition to extra equipment, 
ammunition and supplies," the Nato spokesman told the BBC. "Soldiers 
will still be able to eat pizzas and burgers - but served up in military 
canteens rather than in commercial outlets."

A blog written in February by a senior Isaf morale welfare and recreation 
officer states the argument bluntly for closing down outlets such as Burger 
King, Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen. "This is a warzone, not an amusement park," 
the blog written by Command Sgt Maj Michael T Hall says. "In order to 
accommodate the troop increase and get refocussed on the mission in hand, 
we need to cut back on some of the non-essentials. "Supplying non-essential 
luxuries to big bases like Bagram and Kandahar makes it harder to get essential 
items to combat outposts and forward operating bases, where troops fighting 
every day need to be resupplied with ammunition, food and water."

Command Sgt Maj Hall said that closing such outlets will free up much needed 
storage space and reduce the amount of flight and ground convoy traffic across 
Afghanistan. He said it would also free up "water and electricity needs required 
to run these businesses". Correspondents say that while the closures are not 
likely to bother troops on the frontline who live in tough conditions, many in 
the larger bases on lengthy 12-month tours may complain it places an added 
burden on them.


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## SeanNewman (26 Mar 2010)

Rocketed?  No, but the stats do demonstrate that they are hardly ever actually harmful.  

For the perhaps 15,000 people there, maybe 15 at most get injured in a year (with one death).

Yes it's an apples and oranges comparison, but the numbers don't lie.  For a population that size it's really no worse than anywhere else; it's just the mechanism of injury that's different.


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## Franko (26 Mar 2010)

The KAFers are gonna die from withdrawl.          

Wonder when the Timmies is going to pull up stakes? 

Regards


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## MikeL (26 Mar 2010)

In KAF Green Beans and Tim Hortons are staying, was posted on the other thread about this topic.


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## Towards_the_gap (26 Mar 2010)

Well 392 and I are on the same page.

Burger king/subway - nice little taste of home, and welcome break from DFAC's.

TGI Fridays? Outback? Come on. We don't need these. We are at war after all.


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## SeanNewman (26 Mar 2010)

392,

I 100% agree with you that the QRF-types are extremely busy, that is a no-brainer.  However, there are also people on FOBs who do not work 24 hours a day, and that was the only point I was making.

There were also people on KAF who were floppers and took advantage of the services provided, but there were also people in the Ops and Plans staff who while on KAF, actually put in more hours and had less time off than anyone else in the BG.

In no way saying their tour was harder (ie life in danger constantly), just that there were some HQ types working around the clock to make sure the plans were as good as they could be, C/S 0 provided as much support as it could, and there was always as much firepower in support of the troops as possible.

Long story short: A KAF tour doesn't necessarily equal one where you spend your whole time getting Filipino massages.


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## vonGarvin (27 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Long story short: A KAF tour doesn't necessarily equal one where you spend your whole time getting Filipino massages.


Oh, but imagine if it did ;D

Or swedish massages!


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## GAP (27 Mar 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Oh, but imagine if it did ;D
> 
> Or swedish massages!



Is that a type of massage or the nationality of who is doing it?  ;D


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## 392 (27 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> 392,
> 
> I 100% agree with you that the QRF-types are extremely busy, that is a no-brainer.  However, there are also people on FOBs who do not work 24 hours a day, and that was the only point I was making.
> 
> ...



Oh I know all too well the amount of hours put in by some in the TF HQ, I was one of them, if even for just a few months. I think I managed to put longer hours in daily while in KAF than I did while in the FOBs, but it was also a matter of principle for me to be at my desk in the POC prior to the anticipated first event of the day, and not leave until the last one of my sub-unit's troops were back in their FOB or leaguered up for the night. Mind you, this wasn't just sitting there staring at the screen for 15 hours daily, there was a bunch of actual work thrown in there too, but it does make for some long days, and gave me a chance to do an awful lot of learning about "big picture" stuff and how all the little cogs fit into the big wheel.

I will tell you too, that is was extremely frustrating to go down to Tim's to grab a coffee and listen to the some of those who never left KAF bitch about how hard they had it compared to the guys in the FOBs. It was usually at this point, I'd pop smoke and get the hell out of there before I said or did something I'd regret...

Anyways, I'm sure we're saying the same thing, but I think this can kind of gone off the tracks again into a who has it harder type discussion, and I'm out of it...


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## SeanNewman (27 Mar 2010)

I agree that we are in 100% violent agreement, dammit!


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## McG (27 Mar 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> "This is a war zone - not an amusement park," Command Sgt. Maj. Michael T. Hall recently wrote on the ISAF blog.


Sometimes it seems even soldiers need a "how to talk to soldiers" advisor.  This comes across as "nothing is too good for the troops, and so nothing is exactly what they will get."  It does not ring very well with the people that will live with the decision.

Given my own observations on getting things into theatre & various other commentary buried lower in the noise of these recent news articles, the problem seems to be that: ISAF can no longer afford operational materiel to compete with excess amenities for the limited capacity of the strategic airfields to bring "stuff" into theatre.  If that is really the problem (and I believe it is), then that needed to be the focus of all the quotable quotes & sound-bites.

Bad internal communications seems to do more damage to morale then any actual decision.


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## Jimmy67 (27 Mar 2010)

I saw KAF three times in my deployment; arrival, LTA, and departure. Did I find some of the things there (salsa classes???) surreal? Yes. Do I feel they should be taken away? No. We in the FOBs (Wilson in my case) joked a lot about "KAFrs", but did realize that a lot of troops there put in a lot of long hours to make our jobs possible. And let's face it, KAF resembles a giant construction site designed by the Devil. Hardly a great place to spend seven months.

I doubt very much that the good General is going to put any of his comforts on the chopping block; unless senior staff are willing to set the example and "live rough", this attitude will do nothing but breed resentment...

I think the best solution to this is to find some way (within reason) to provide better welfare services to the FOBs. Cause' frankly, they are nonexistent. No books. No DVDs. Nowhere to sit in a real chair and relax. Nothing to do but stare at a laptop night after night. We had no working phone or internet for the last month and a half there, other than sat phone. (thanks for nothing, Global Connect!!!) :rage:


We had better welfare support ten years ago than we have now; if we can bring in shipments of butt cans, surely we can provide some small comforts...


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## Greymatters (27 Mar 2010)

MCG said:
			
		

> Sometimes it seems even soldiers need a "how to talk to soldiers" advisor.  This comes across as "nothing is too good for the troops, and so nothing is exactly what they will get."  It does not ring very well with the people that will live with the decision.



Its not the first time this has happened on a deployment, and it wont be the last.  There's always someone out there who thinks the troops should be whitewashing rocks and practicing drill in their spare time rather than malingering about, relaxing, or enjoying themselves.  "Idle hands are devils hands!"


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## SeanNewman (27 Mar 2010)

There is some merit to the argument of busy soldiers = happy and productive soldiers, but you are completely right that some people take that to the extreme.

If someone is being an unproductive flopper then by all means jack that guy up and put him to work.  But if someone just got back from a tough op where he lost some friends and wants to take a break, cut the guy some friggin' slack and give him a Whopper.


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## 1feral1 (27 Mar 2010)

I can remember making runs down Rte Irish to Victory and Liberty in our LAVs, and before heading back to Al Tahweed (Union III) we would if we could, hit the BK next to the huge PX there, along with the Cinnibons place, Subway, etc for a taste of  'home', and a good change from the DFAC way of life. There was also a variety of demountable small shops catering to Tshirts and other things, and there was an indoor Iraqi market place which sold everything from A to Z.

In the city there was a smaller PX, a BK, a Subway, and something called The Pizza Inn. All had NO bacon   . Often this area was out of bounds for us Australians due to the IED, VBIED, SVBIED threat, in which some vehicles just blew up in the car park at random, and without warning. The Food Court and PX were protected by 12 ft T-walls, as was near by LZ Washington.

All these places were always busy, and good for morale (mine). Sometimes when we left the wire into the IZ, we'd do a gang take-away' delivery, and come back chock-a-block full of pizzas for the lads, of all which were immedialy 'sharked' down like a pack of starving dingos feeding on a wallaby. Such dysfunctionalism is still missed to this day  :nod: 


If they are closing similar places in Afghanistan, IMHO for troops coming out of a lengthy patrol etc, I am sure they would be missed to some degree.

My 2 cents,

OWDU


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## NL_engineer (27 Mar 2010)

Well another good example of senior leadership out of touch with the troops.  I think before people make these decisions they should look at its affect on troops; and not stop as far as the wire.  

Having a Timm's coffee, burger, or pizza is a large morel boost for those who don't see KAF all that often.  I found having these comforts a big boost on the days we went KAF for ramp ceremonies.


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## McG (27 Mar 2010)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Well another good example of senior leadership out of touch with the troops.  I think before people make these decisions they should look at its affect on troops; and not stop as far as the wire.


I am sure the decision makers did think of the people (despite the poor communication of intent to the troops).

Have you ever been involved (even on the periphery) with stratigic lines of communication?  An airport only has so much capacity to bring things into a theatre of operation.  There is a fininte number of flights that can come or go in a day, there is a finite amount of space on the ramps, there is a limit to the rate at which crews & equipment can off-load materiel, etc.  If APOD congestion is causing the US is to have trouble getting ammunition, parts, consumables and other war materiel into country, then it is a military imparative for reductions in non-essential flow through that APOD ... even if that means no more McWoppers.


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## BDTyre (27 Mar 2010)

MCG said:
			
		

> An airport only has so much capacity to bring things into a theatre of operation.  There is a fininte number of flights that can come or go in a day, there is a finite amount of space on the ramps, there is a limit to the rate at which crews & equipment can off-load materiel, etc.



I was always under the impression that the majority of the food at the boardwalk was trucked in via Pakistan, hence why Burger King has constant shortages of nearly everything and why Tim Horton's had no baked goods for two months.  I know TGIF gets stuff via Dubai, but I'm pretty certain much of the supplies come on  trucks.

This was obviously a military decision - I wonder if any consideration was given to the thousands of civilians that live and work at KAF, many who have been here for four or five or six years.


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## GAP (27 Mar 2010)

I remember reading an article on Timmies that pointed out that everything is brought in by air.


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## McG (27 Mar 2010)

Go look at the statements that are being overlooked because of the "amusement park" comment.  The stratigic lines of communication are being taxed (be that air or land), and the military needs cannot keep competing with the ammenities: 


			
				Yrys said:
			
		

> Command Sgt Maj Michael T Hall says ... "Supplying non-essential
> luxuries to big bases like Bagram and Kandahar makes it harder to get essential
> items to combat outposts and forward operating bases, where troops fighting
> every day need to be resupplied with ammunition, food and water."


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## Laps (27 Mar 2010)

Spent 7 months in KAF, worked long hours (maybe Loachman will argue?!?) and didn't care much for the Boardwalk's amenities.  Yes, it was nice to take a break and go "window shop" from time to time (like once a month), but for what I actually spent - time and money wise -  I wouldn't have missed it much.  TGI Friday was just getting built by the time I left, but I never visited the Ekos and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I bought fast food.  Subway was always out of everything (Bologne & chilies sub anyone?) and since I don't normally visit BK and Pizza Hut in Canada, I didn't see much of a reason to go once overseas.

Timmies was a nice break however and I'm glad it's staying.   Maybe people liked Greenbeans, I didn't care for it, especially that you could get Espresso right at the DFACs.  

I never had the chance to see any of the tour shows and, living in the weather heaven and working nights, I didn't care much for their daytime rehearsals.

So, in short, I'm sure lots of people will miss their comforts, but personally, it didn't change my life during my time there and if (or is it "when") I go back, I wouldn't miss those places that much if they were gone.

If they get rid of the boardwalk area, what will happen of the hockey rink?  If hockey gets banned because it's not "war like" enough, I think there'll be a riot!

Cheers


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## Towards_the_gap (27 Mar 2010)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> I was always under the impression that the majority of the food at the boardwalk was trucked in via Pakistan, hence why Burger King has constant shortages of nearly everything and why Tim Horton's had no baked goods for two months.  I know TGIF gets stuff via Dubai, but I'm pretty certain much of the supplies come on  trucks.



And those trucks need fuel and escorts, paid for and supplied by whom? Truck or airplane, it's still unneccesary lenghtening of the supply chain.



> This was obviously a military decision - I wonder if any consideration was given to the thousands of civilians that live and work at KAF, many who have been here for four or five or six years.


 Dry your eyes. Those civvies made a choice to work on KAF, and are mostly well renumerated for it.


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## SeanNewman (28 Mar 2010)

I'm still kind of ticked off that the _one time_ I had made plans for some free time at night to see the Kid Rock concert in the open area he ended up bailing and holding it in the incredibly small (re US only) US room.

Which meant the whole tour was 16 hour work days (with a break during a lull for the gym), go back to the shacks, play PSP for an hour, shower, repeat, with the exception of the hour at the market every week.

Damn you Kid Rock!


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## vonGarvin (28 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Damn you Kid Rock!


I heard that Kid Rock changed venue because he just didn't want _you_ there.
;D

(j/k)
I think that the message of the "why" these things are being shut down is being missed by the good General et al.  When they use words like "luxury" and "non-essential", it makes it sound as though the troops in KAF are getting comfy chairs and the feather treatment.  They also use false dichotomies such as "We can't supply the FOBs because we have Pizza Hut".  FALSEHOOD!

If supplying those places is a strain on an already fragile system, then say so.  Or simply state that "they are last in the order of priority for supply", and explain why they aren't open all the time.

But as pointed out, they are a great place to escape for a few moments.  One day, mid tour, the Ops O, Ops MWO and a few others of us decided to go get whoppers (with cheese!) for lunch.  That was the one time I had time to eat there, though it was only a few hundred metres from where I worked, and simply a hop, skip and a jump from the Fraise Chapel where I attended mass daily (except sundays, but that is another story!).  That one day lunch lasted 30 mins or so, and it still stays with me as one of the better bonding events for the BG HQ staff, ketchup smeared combats and all!  (All day long after, we mused about how we were all depressed from a protein overdose, and all wanted to kill ourselves!)  

I cannot imagine being out on op after op, getting a chance to get to KAF, and then being told by the chain of command that "TGI Fridays is too good for you, go have another serving of Pork Neck at the luxembourg!"


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## SeanNewman (28 Mar 2010)

...fighting the urge to post photos from that trip to BK...


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## Bruce Monkhouse (28 Mar 2010)

Just a quick question, having never attended the area, isn't bringing any kind of commerce to the country part of what we are trying to achieve?


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## GAP (28 Mar 2010)

Are you suggesting that BK switch to "batter dipped Camel Spider" and "Leftover Mule" for their menu items?  ;D


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## SeanNewman (28 Mar 2010)

Bruce,

You are right to see things in the counter-insurgency mindset in terms of poverty being the cause of a lot of problems, and every Afghan working is an Afghan not firing an RPG, etc.  And there are all sorts of occasions where Afghans are employed for these purposes, most of them being general labourer types in basic construction projects.

However, although there are some Afghans who work on KAF, the vast majority of non-western types are not from Afghanistan (sadly), being contracted from elsewhere.


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## GAP (28 Mar 2010)

Don't get too caught up in creating a false economy thru inflated demands by NATO & others hiring local workers.....it destroys the local economy and hurts the battle against the Taliban. 

Hire Afghans where necessary, but better yet focus the bought services through existing companies that hire the locals....yeah, yeah I know about corruption, but it is their country...


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## tomahawk6 (28 Mar 2010)

OTTAWA -- Canada's Tim Hortons coffee shop at Kandahar Airfield will remain open despite a shutdown of Pizza Hut, Burger King and other U.S. outlets deemed too luxurious by top American commanders of NATO troops.

"Kandahar Airfield Tim Hortons is an initiative to support our men and women in uniform for serving in Afghanistan," Defence Department spokeswoman Megan MacLean said. "There are no plans to close the Tim Hortons."

Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, who leads the International Security Assistance Force, has ordered most fast-food outlets on the boardwalk inside the airfield base shuttered.

Command Sgt. Maj. Michael T. Hall revealed the plan in a post on an ISAF blog last month.

"Many of you have heard that there are plans to shut down some of the ‘amenities' throughout Afghanistan," he wrote. "This is not rumour. It is fact. This is a war zone -- not an amusement park."

Sgt. Maj. Hall said he and Gen. McChrystal had been looking for ways to do things more efficiently and to optimize ISAF resources from the moment they arrived in Afghanistan last summer. Gen. McChrystal is overseeing the surge in U.S. troops and resources over coming months.

"One of the ways we're going to do that -- in order to accommodate the troop increase and get re-focused on the mission at hand -- is to cut back on some of the non-essentials. That includes some of the morale, welfare and recreation facilities throughout Afghanistan. In the coming weeks and months, concessions such as Orange Julius, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and Military Car Sales will close their doors."

He said commanders across the battlefield are implementing additional cutbacks while still providing services within individual nations' interests and regulations.

The Tim Hortons is located next to the American concessions, many of which will be closed. Operated from a 12-metre trailer, Canadian military support staff manages Tim's and profits go to health and welfare programs for Canadian Forces members.

He said Green Beans Coffee would remain at bases across Afghanistan, and bazaars and businesses which employ Afghans and feed the local economy will still continue to operate.

Sgt. Maj. Hall also said there would be fewer first-run movie showings and a reduced amount of canned and bottled goods coming into the country.

"What it comes down to is focus, and to using the resources we have in the most efficient and effective ways possible. Supplying non-essential luxuries to big bases like Bagram and Kandahar makes it harder to get essential items to combat outposts and forward operating bases, where troops who are in the fight each day need to be resupplied with ammunition, food and water."



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2726130#ixzz0j


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## jollyjacktar (28 Mar 2010)

Having been there twice now, and also having being OTW and in for a compairason.   I totally agree with Technoviking and others on the morale or lack there of effect this will have on the troops, especially the kids from outside.  And as mentioned, those multitudes of Civvies who do in some cases have been there for years now.  

Yes beans and bullets are important, but shitty morale will kill the party quickly too and IMO is just as important in the grand scheme of things.  How true, "nothing is too good for the troops and nothing is what they will get".  If indeed it is a supply issue, well admit it, fix it and scale down the goodies some but don't go cold turkey.  Most of the time, it was the kids from outside that I noticed having a treat at BK etc.  They deserved every bit of it too.


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## SeanNewman (28 Mar 2010)

This could turn into something very interesting if Comd ISAF decides to follow through on this and orders Tim Hortons closed as well.

I know it's our intent and Tim's intent to keep it open, but it was probably the US intent and BK's intent to keep that open, as well.

ISAF does not mean American, it means overall command of the mission.  If he can order BK closed, he can order TH closed because US and Canada are both subordinate to ISAF.

It is doubtful that he would since it's our equivalent to Green Bean, but if he did order the TH closed it would make for very interesting times.


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## jollyjacktar (28 Mar 2010)

Someone correct me if I err, but I believe BK, TGIF etc are AFFES sanctioned sites and as such would come under more Yank control.  Whereas Tim's is under our thumb.  (Which I am nosing at the party poopers) :nana:


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## tomahawk6 (28 Mar 2010)

I wonder how long Karzai will last after the ISAF pullout ?


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## vonGarvin (28 Mar 2010)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I wonder how long Karzai will last after the ISAF pullout ?


10.5 seconds.


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## SeanNewman (28 Mar 2010)

Jolly,

Agreed, but it's not a matter of who owns BK or who owns TH.  The point is that Comd ISAF isn't making decisions that only apply to Americans, and could easily apply to TH as well.

Again, not saying that he's going to say "No TH", but it's certainly not a stretch if he's saying "No BK", and Canada couldn't really do much about it since we're taking part in an ISAF mission.


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## TN2IC (28 Mar 2010)

I have to admit I had a chuckle on this topic. Defend Tim Hortons at all cost!  ;D


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## Gunner98 (28 Mar 2010)

Is this the biggest decision that a Comd of ISAF can make or what, forget strategic level operations or nation-building, but let's focus on where will he let the boys and girls who risk their lives, spend their danger pay - TGI Fridays, BK, Thai massage or the PX.  I had something different in mind when I though of the US soldiers flooding into Afghanistan.  Is this really a four-star policy decision?


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## Strike (28 Mar 2010)

Technoviking -- Don't forget the haik, when even the worst type of fish is good enough!



> ...go have another serving of Pork Neck at the luxembourg...


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## Greymatters (28 Mar 2010)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Having been there twice now, and also having being OTW and in for a compairason.   I totally agree with Technoviking and others on the morale or lack there of effect this will have on the troops, especially the kids from outside.  And as mentioned, those multitudes of Civvies who do in some cases have been there for years now.



While I wouldnt shed any tears over the loss of a few 'luxury' outlets, shutting them all down would definately have an impact on morale.  Not everyone wants to eat in the mess hall for every meal for their entire tour, and they also provide places where mixed ranks can eat together.


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## SeanNewman (28 Mar 2010)

Grey,

All the big messes in KAF are all ranks.


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## Loachman (28 Mar 2010)

Laps said:
			
		

> Spent 7 months in KAF, worked long hours (maybe Loachman will argue?!?)



I would not pretend that we worked as long hours as most, but the intensity made up for that.



			
				Laps said:
			
		

> Yes, it was nice to take a break and go "window shop" from time to time (like once a month), but for what I actually spent - time and money wise -  I wouldn't have missed it much.



Same here for the most part. I had a Pizza Hut pizza about a month into the tour, and it was the best meal that I'd had up until then. The novelty had worn off by the time that I had the next one, about a month later. That place was handy, though, given the odd times at which we went to work, sometimes at short notice, when getting a meal at the messes was not possible.

I probably had one pizza per month, tops. I ate at Burger King twice, with the first time reminding me why I hadn't eaten at one since Germany in 1989. I still had most of my first booklet of Tim Horton's coupons left at the end of the tour, and gave all of the others away. I think that I only had something from there twice in the whole seven months, too. And the Dutch restaurant right near the end.



			
				Laps said:
			
		

> TGI Friday was just getting built by the time I left, but I never visited the Ekos



I'm still not sure where TGI Friday is, and what's an Ekos?



			
				Laps said:
			
		

> I never had the chance to see any of the tour shows and, living in the weather heaven and working nights, I didn't care much for their daytime rehearsals.



I saw parts of two shows, one of which was on the night that I got back from leave. I was working when many of them were on, or trying to rest before a mission.

I have mixed opinions about cutting these places out. I don't think that it's likely to affect operations positively. People have to eat somewhere, and regardless of where they eat, the same amount of food has to be brought in. I wouldn't miss them, but I can appreciate that many would.


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## catalyst (29 Mar 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> I remember reading an article on Timmies that pointed out that everything is brought in by air.



When I worked there it was Montreal - Pakistan via sea and then road to KAF. 
Some stuff came in by air -b ut it was much more expensive. Of course, when there was a shortage of coffee, coffee became a 'priority' on a space available basis.


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## Yrys (29 Mar 2010)

Fierce reader debate over fast food, movies at U.S. bases, CNN

On Thursday, CNN.com's Brad Lendon wrote in Afghanistan Crossroads about 
a blog post that appeared on the International Security Assistance Force 
Afghanistan blog this week, announcing the military was cutting back on 
"non-essentials" for U.S. troops serving in Afghanistan. This included closing 
restaurants such as Burger King, Dairy Queen, Orange Julius and Pizza Hut 
on bases and dropping first-run movies from base theaters.

The reader response was fiery. Here's a sampling from both sides of the 
argument. You can read all the comments here.

One reader, Nick, writes: "As a former Marine and Desert Storm vet, this is 
the right decision. If you want a Whopper or a DQ sundae, you should have 
not joined the military. There are plenty of extra curricular activities that you 
do not here about. These are not needed."

Heather agrees: "Wars have been fought for years without a DQ or BK being 
in the area. I feel like the concerns should be going to our troops safety and 
not whether or not they can get a burger or ice cream on base."

Lili Willard takes the other side of the debate: "My son is currently serving in 
Afghanistan on an FOB (forward operation base). He works long, hot hours. ... 
So when he gets to go to one of the bigger bases, it is a real treat to have a DQ 
or Whopper, and he loves Pizza Hut. This refreshes him and he goes back to the 
FOB in good spirits and ready to do his work."

"This frustrates me to no end," writes one reader. "My husband is gone six months 
out of the year over to Afghanistan. With his long work hours he puts in, and the 
time away from family, I'm glad to know that he at least as some comforts/luxuries 
while he is there. Now that it's being taken away, I have to wonder what that will 
do to the morale of the troops who have to endure the same daily grind, day in and 
day out."

Reader Sam thinks most of the readers are missing the point."If the outposts are not 
getting their essential items because fast-food is taking up space on the transports to 
the big bases, that's an issue, isn't it? Ditch the fast-food, get what's needed to the 
troops at the outposts first."


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## Gramps (29 Mar 2010)

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> When I worked there it was Montreal - Pakistan via sea and then road to KAF.
> coffee became a 'priority' and thus was 'emergency airlifted' into the country.



Priority yes, emergency airlifted no. It was placed on existing flights on a space available basis. I only mention this because I do not want people thinking there were flights laid on specifically for Tim Horton's. Cheers


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## catalyst (29 Mar 2010)

Thanks for pointing that out - my bad and I will edit my post. Timmy's lingo


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## Greymatters (29 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> All the big messes in KAF are all ranks.



My mistake - I had been told that all ranks eat in the same buildings but sit in seperate areas of the building...


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## SeanNewman (29 Mar 2010)

Hmmm.  I can't say for sure forever, but I was there in 08-09 and it was certainly mixed company.  Not sure if anything before of after that was different but I didn't get the feeling that it was ever different.

That being said, some organizations may self-segregate (?) but I certainly didn't see that inside the TF at the time.  

I think just due to general interests you end up typically being friends with your peers so you sit with them more often, but it was certainly normal to have a Pte or Col sit beside us without a second thought.


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## GAP (29 Mar 2010)

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> When I worked there it was Montreal - Pakistan via sea and then road to KAF.
> Some stuff came in by air -b ut it was much more expensive. Of course, when there was a shortage of coffee, coffee became a 'priority' on a space available basis.



seen....point taken..


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## Greymatters (29 Mar 2010)

My info was dated pre-2005, so it might have been different - were even the British messes all ranks when you were there?


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## SeanNewman (29 Mar 2010)

They didn't literally have a "Brit" mess the way you might think like with the gyms for example, where each country funds and equips a facility close to their lines and it's usually (but not exclusively) that country's troops who use it.

There were 3-4 huge messes as of 08-09, all ran by the "Supreme" (oh, the irony) company.  What they did was tie general regions to it, like a European mess or an American mess, but it was all the same company with 99% the same food.  The only difference for example would be that one may also serve curry for lunch, one may have pasta, etc...

The only way nationalities came into play was where the building happened to sit in KAF.  However, it was not at all uncommon for people to eat at different messes throughout the day because breakfast might be closer to the shacks but lunch might be closer to work, for ex.


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## Gramps (29 Mar 2010)

I have one questio for the people that decide the menu for Supreme. Who the hell puts corn in pancakes?


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## Jarnhamar (30 Mar 2010)

Having searched a vehicle or two coming into KAF,  a surprising amount of stuff that's "taking up vital space on aircraft" actually comes over land brought in by contractors.

Wonder if the guys who came to this decision are the same type of dickheads that drive from KAF to camp hero three times a day for their restaurant quality meals.


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## SeanNewman (30 Mar 2010)

Gramps said:
			
		

> I have one questio for the people that decide the menu for Supreme. Who the hell puts corn in pancakes?



Or how many variations of "rice and stew slop" can you possibly have?

And what about that Jesus cake!


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## Gunner98 (31 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> They didn't literally have a "Brit" mess the way you might think like with the gyms for example, where each country funds and equips a facility close to their lines and it's usually (but not exclusively) that country's troops who use it.
> 
> There were 3-4 huge messes as of 08-09, all ran by the "Supreme" (oh, the irony) company.  What they did was tie general regions to it, like a European mess or an American mess, but it was all the same company with 99% the same food.  The only difference for example would be that one may also serve curry for lunch, one may have pasta, etc...



During 2008, they certainly did have a US and a Brit mess, i.e., food tailored to those countries.  The permanent (every meal) curry bar, fish and chips, steak and kidney pie, and permanent bread bar were very British.  The grits, hot dogs and surf/turf (Fridays) were very American. I guess your saying that the curry and bread bars and surf/turf only account for 1% difference - I beg to differ, you should have got out more.  Since variety is the spice of life, our crew (Col to WO) had an 'informal dining schedule' by day of the week.


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## eurowing (31 Mar 2010)

DFACs, 
Luxembourg has European food:
The Far East has East Indian, Chinese and Asian food:
Niagara has American food:
The Cambridge has British food:
North Line (new) American food and it is the best mess IMHO; and finally
South Park which I believe is only for Americans.  I could be wrong.

New since January, TGI Fridays and Mamma Mia Pizza, both on the boardwalk and I saw an ad for something new, coming soon, while walking today, but I forgot the name.


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## Gramps (31 Mar 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Or how many variations of "rice and stew slop" can you possibly have?
> 
> And what about that Jesus cake!



And let us not forget the so called scrambled eggs. It became a betting game for us to see how much water was in the tray they served them from.


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## GAP (30 Apr 2010)

No more having it your way: Burger King, Pizza Hut gone from Kandahar Airfield
By: Tara Brautigam, THE CANADIAN PRESS 30/04/2010 5:30 AM
Article Link

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Soldiers who crave a Whopper with cheese at Kandahar Airfield won't be able to have it their way any longer.

As of Saturday, the Burger King, Pizza Hut and Subway outlets at the heart of the sprawling military base in Afghanistan will be shut down on the orders of the top NATO commander in Afghanistan.

Cpl. Stanly Pilon, a 32-year-old vehicle maintenance worker with Canada's National Support Element, said he will miss the morale boost the fast-food fare gives to battle-weary soldiers.

"I'm kind of sad," Pilon said between bites of a Subway sandwich.

"It's kind of a place that we come just to get away from work and the chaos sometimes that happens around here."

U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal launched a review last year of the amenities available at the Kandahar and Bagram airfields, and concluded that the fast-food joints posed a distraction from the task at hand, an ISAF spokesman said.

"Gen. McChrystal looked around and said, 'There are some of these things that at this point in the mission are not keeping us as focused on the mission as we need to be,"' said Lt.-Col. Michael Lawhorn.

"We're very much in a war."

With the surge of 30,000 more American troops, additional space was at a premium, Lawhorn added.

He said some troops may grumble over losing such creature comforts as a Pepperoni Lover's pizza, but the majority of them would understand that it's for the greater good

"Will some service members have their morale impacted? Sure. But by and large, they understand that difference between must-have and nice-to-have," he said.

"That's not to say that these things won't return for the future."

McChrystal's order also affects a few shops selling various concessions and jewelry.

The restaurants, which have been around for about five years, have a pared-down menu of what's on offer at home. For some, their greasy treats provided a welcome respite after months of cafeteria servings on the base or military rations out in the battlefield.

"It doesn't really promote healthy living, but on the other side of the coin, I'm outside a lot," said Capt. Drew Arions of the Ontario-based 1st Battalion of the Royal Canadian Regiment.

"If you have a vehicle coming in for maintenance, everybody throws in some money and the guy that's coming in, he goes and makes a run to Burger King and brings it out to the (forward operating base)."

Pte. Matthew Mason, also with 1st Battalion, said he believes it's time for the restaurants to go.

"If you've been outside and you've just been eating rations, it's good to clear out the system with that Burger King or Pizza Hut, but it is distracting," Mason said.

Moments later, his thoughts turn to another iconic institution from the West - the distinctively Canadian Tim Hortons outlet, a favourite with soldiers of all nationalities.

"I hope they don't take Tim Hortons away."
More on link


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## vonGarvin (30 Apr 2010)

This still pisses me off to no end.  "WE'RE AT WAR!"  Oh, really?  Yes, we have troops in combat, but are WE at war?  Let me see:
HLTA is priority number one.
More staffers at the expense of bayonets.


Anyway, 7.5 months at KAF, 1 time at Burger King for me.  A handful of times at Tim's.  It was frequented more by those coming in from the FOBs, looking to relax for a bit, to get a small reminder of home.


I suppose now to focus on "the war", we can end the logistical drain that is HLTA.


Oh, wait, I thought that they were serious...  :


EDIT TO ADD: If it was only about "Healthy Living", then we wouldn't drive on the roads over there, breathe the air over there, or get involved in all those nasty firefights.  I mean, they can really affect your health!

:


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## McG (30 Apr 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> This still pisses me off to no end.  "WE'RE AT WAR!"  Oh, really?  Yes, we have troops in combat, but are WE at war?  Let me see:
> HLTA is priority number one.


You are confusing different national commands.
Canada is keeping Timmies & HLTA.
The US is closing its shops & I don't think HLTA ever hit thier higher priorety list.


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## Journeyman (30 Apr 2010)

MCG said:
			
		

> > "WE'RE AT WAR!"
> 
> 
> You are confusing different national commands.


The US is at "war" -- Canada is at "strongly miffed"  :nod:


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## vonGarvin (30 Apr 2010)

Yes, true about being "at war" and we are "conducting operations, no change from UNFICYP in our application of the No. 1 Priority: leave"


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## Jarnhamar (30 Apr 2010)

How wild does this conspiricy sound.

Lots of soldiers eat at the fast food places.
(Once I ate every meal for 3 weeks straight when I was in camp- defac's were overfilling and running out of food)

When you _sign in_ to the defac (And they will seriously chase after you if you don't sign in) the company who supplies the food charges the US government(or whoever) a flat rate.  It's like $30 or $40 a meal I think. I can't remember, it's a lot. So whether you have a huge steak fries 3 pop and some lobster OR an apple juice and some toast - the company charges the government the same.

What company provides the food? It used to be KBR. KBR is a sub company (not sure if that's the right word)  of Haliburton.  I'm not sure if the food company switched to 'Supreme', that sounds familiar for some reason. I know they provide fuel.

Either way, what's the possibility that the chain of command got pressure to close down the restaurants around KAF because the company charging $30 for an apple a piece of chicken and a coke were loosing too much money form troops going to the boardwalk and buying supper (thus not signing into the defac)?

That is a much better explanation that this stupidity.


> -concluded that the fast-food joints posed a distraction from the task at hand.
> -There are some of these things that at this point in the mission are not keeping us as focused on the mission as we need to be,"'





> With the surge of 30,000 more American troops, additional space was at a premium, Lawhorn added.


And the defacs are already swamped with people and can hardly keep up.  Getting rid of alternate "dining options" is a good idea?



> He said some troops may grumble over losing such creature comforts as a Pepperoni Lover's pizza, but the majority of them would understand that it's for the greater good


He's either RTFO or someones in bed with the food providing companies over there.


----------



## Greymatters (30 Apr 2010)

Some very good points, I forgot all about that angle.  Ive seen similiar 'policies' on bases in Europe...


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## SeanNewman (30 Apr 2010)

Not sure whether I should post a picture about "Conspiracy Theory" or "X Files".


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## Jarnhamar (30 Apr 2010)

Post a graph of the projected profit increase Supreme (?) is expecting to rake in per month now that the competition is out of the game.


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## OldSolduer (30 Apr 2010)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Post a graph of the projected profit increase Supreme (?) is expecting to rake in per month now that the competition is out of the game.


I never thought of that angle, BUT I can see the point. Interesting.

And I detected a bit of hypocrisy from the young man who doesn't want Tim Hortons closed.
What's good for the goose is.....


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## Brasidas (30 Apr 2010)




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## Greymatters (3 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Not sure whether I should post a picture about "Conspiracy Theory" or "X Files".



If you think military or military-influenced business outlets, either in NATO countries or in other countries, are free from unethical business practices, then you need to open your eyes a little...


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## SeanNewman (3 May 2010)

I didn't say anything of the sort.  I'm sure all sorts of decision are made a dozen rank levels above me that would surprise me.

However, the thought that they would get the ISAF Commander and RSM to make a statement like (to paraphrase) "We're at war and don't need distractions like Burger King and SubWay" in order to cover up the Supreme messes making more money is a big straw to grasp.


----------



## GAP (3 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> don't need distractions like Burger King and SubWay" in order to cover up the Supreme messes making more money is a big straw to grasp.



Not if the contract was let with a guarantee of x meals a day at such and such a cost. If only half as many meals are being consumed, but government is still being stiffed for the full tab because of the contract.....it does seem plausible...


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## eurowing (4 May 2010)

It is not just food outlets that are closing.  Several AFFES outlets including the useful Alteration Shop are closed.  I could wander about the boardwalk when I have some time to spare and give a more detailed list.  I am actually a bit miffed about the alteration shop as I need a zipper replaced.


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## SeanNewman (4 May 2010)

Where is everyone going to get their non-regulation shoulder patches now??

How is 2 Platoon going to be known as "The Rabid Wolverines" without that shop?


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## 2010newbie (4 May 2010)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> What company provides the food? It used to be KBR. KBR is a sub company (not sure if that's the right word)  of Haliburton.  I'm not sure if the food company switched to 'Supreme', that sounds familiar for some reason. I know they provide fuel.



KBR (Kellog, Brown, and Root) was a susidiary of Haliburton and then sold through an IPO in 2007. They had revenues of $11 billion last year. Supreme is privately held and based in Switzerland. AAFES seems to own a lot of franchises (BK, Subway, etc.) that are operated on bases, but I don't know about KAF in particular. They operate as a charitable organization and return a lot of the profit they earn to support US military MWR programs. Their revenue last year was $8 billion. I think I'd rather my money going to AAFES than a US public corporation that has en extremely questionable background.


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## Loachman (4 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Where is everyone going to get their non-regulation shoulder patches now??



At the embroidery shop - unless that's gone, too.


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## SeanNewman (4 May 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> At the embroidery shop - unless that's gone, too.



Ahhh, sorry I was getting that confused with the tailor.

Once they closed the Thai massage parlour I stopped going to the boardwalk anyway.  This is war, afterall!


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## Jarnhamar (4 May 2010)

This is more sinister than I thought.

I wonder if the US PX will kick out the Shady electronics guy, fake oakley & jewelry guy or stop selling all that crap like junk food, fake beer,  Xbox's and condoms.


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## WrenchBender (5 May 2010)

What is open on the B'walk these days not counting the local boys....
Clockwise from
Timmies
Kabob House
Sea Can
Ice Cream
The Rocks (new Lebanese food, always busy) Opened May 1st
ATM's
Embroidery/badge shop
Phone centre
Mama's pizza
Deutcher PX
TGIFriday's (Naafi operated)
French PX
Barber shop
Green beans
Freedom tel

also Heroes now has 24 hr service

WrenchBender


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## SeanNewman (5 May 2010)

Is the rug shop no longer in the NW corner?


----------



## Gunner98 (5 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Is the rug shop no longer in the NW corner?



They would be included in "local boys"!! No?


----------



## SeanNewman (6 May 2010)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> They would be included in "local boys"!! No?



Ahh, seen.  Didn't get the reference in my first skim of the post but you have me there.


----------



## Loachman (6 May 2010)

That seems like only the American-run - and only a select few at that - places have been affected.

Is TGI Friday's (which was not open when I left) "safe" because it is NAAFI-run?


----------



## Infanteer (6 May 2010)

This whole schmozzle was a lot of loud noise for nothing - only a couple restaurants closed but more sprang up in their place.  There was literally no change that came out of this, guys just stopped going for whoppers and got schwarmas at the new Lebanese restaurant (which is really good).

All I know is that I didn't see much of KAF or any FOB for the tour and subsisted off of Roka noodles and the god-awful 08 IMP selection for months.  When I came to KAF it was nice to get some greasy fast food.

Oh well.


----------



## vonGarvin (6 May 2010)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> When I came to KAF it was nice to get some greasy fast food.


And that was my earlier point.  Though I lived and breathed Poo Pond for virtually my entire tour, I ate at BK exactly once.  I'm glad to hear that it's been filled.  I suppose it's true: nature DOES abhor vacuums.


----------



## tech2002 (6 May 2010)

Glad that Timmies stays open it was nice to get back from field and have a nice thirst of fresh coffee ..   ;D


----------



## SeanNewman (13 May 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> ...I suppose it's true: nature DOES abhor vacuums.



Stop talking like that, the tour is over and we can talk like actual people again!


----------



## eurowing (5 Jul 2010)

Kentucky Fried Chicken is soon to open on the Boardwalk!  Makes me wonder if the Colonel outranked the General!  ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar (5 Jul 2010)

If that's true I'm putting my name in for tour.


----------



## vonGarvin (5 Jul 2010)

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> If that's true I'm putting my name in for tour.


Sorry, but if it's true, then only The RCR may deploy hence forth.  ;D


----------



## Journeyman (5 Jul 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Sorry, but if it's true, then only The RCR may deploy hence forth.  ;D


Rations and camp followers in the same bucket?


----------



## GK .Dundas (5 Jul 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Rations and camp followers in the same bucket?


  Who did replace Harlen Saunders as their honorary Colonel  anyway ?


----------



## PuckChaser (5 Jul 2010)

eurowing said:
			
		

> Kentucky Fried Chicken is soon to open on the Boardwalk!



They needed something to help clean out a month's worth of hard rats now that Burger King and Pizza Hut were gone.

Whats the source on the KFC opening? I heard that rumour in 07/08 when I was there, even saw a flyer posted about it.


----------



## eurowing (5 Jul 2010)

I am your source.  The building is painted, signs are up.  I'll go to the boardwalk in a few days and see if they have posted opening dates.


----------



## SeanNewman (5 Jul 2010)

I guess it all depends on General P and whether or not his command philosphpy is any different than Gen McC.

It will be interesting to see either decision, really.  Either he keeps the status quo that they are a distraction and that breaks the impression that they are different personalities, or he reverses the direction and then all the papers will jump on it because it will seem like conflicting orders.


----------



## Jarnhamar (5 Jul 2010)

eurowing said:
			
		

> I am your source.  The building is painted, signs are up.  I'll go to the boardwalk in a few days and see if they have posted opening dates.


Better yet can you snap a picture?


----------



## eurowing (5 Jul 2010)

Sure, next time I go for a Timmies, I'll inconvenience some electrons.


----------



## OldSolduer (5 Jul 2010)

eurowing said:
			
		

> Kentucky Fried Chicken is soon to open on the Boardwalk!  Makes me wonder if the Colonel outranked the General!  ;D



Money and politics outrank generals. Merely an observation.


----------



## jollyjacktar (6 Jul 2010)

Shared with the usual caveats.  Photo at story link below.

Kandahar Air Base: Part Afghanistan, Part Jersey Shore
By Jason Motlagh / Kandahar Air Field Monday, Jul. 05, 2010 

Among the amenities on offer inside the American base at Kandahar: T.G.I. Friday's. 

Jason Motlagh

It's another hot day on "the boardwalk." The long line of customers, many in shorts and sunglasses, waiting for iced cappuccinos runs out the cafe door and around the corner, a stone's throw from the outdoor hockey rink and volleyball courts. The merchants hawking everything from iPods to custom-made silk-screen t-shirts are doing brisk business. So is TGI Friday's, the restaurant whose familiar red-and-white sign flanks the stage where live rock concerts are occasionally held. "Feels like I'm back in Jersey," says one young man, taking in the scene. "Right back home on the Jersey shore."

Far from it. More than 6,800 miles, in fact. Back in New Jersey, he'd be arrested for strolling around in public with a semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder. But this is Kandahar air base, an alternate universe that is, some argue, more and more out-of-touch with the violence at its walls. You see, Kandahar air base is also the gateway to southern Afghanistan's fiercest combat zone, one that just keeps getting bigger and deadlier. 
(See Apocalypse Afghanistan: a multimedia presentation.)

After the Taliban's ouster, the air base was upgraded to support 8,000 people and has swollen to more than three times that size over the past two years, with still more soldiers and contractors in-bound since President Obama ordered up a troop surge to try the tide in the nearly nine-year-old war. Meanwhile, in nearby Kandahar City, suicide bombers and assassins on motorbikes continue to impose their reign of terror on civilians. 
(See America's stumbling block in Kandahar: Karzai's brother.)

Surreal as the contrast is, having what amounts to a small Western city in the Taliban heartland involves logistics that are sobering. Every month, more than 3 million pounds of food and 30 million gallons of water are consumed by base personnel. To keep people fed and thousands of electrical generators running around the clock, a parade of truck convoys ply four overland supply lines that frequently come under attack. The rest is handled by the airstrip, which sees an average of more than 5,000 military and commercial take-offs and landings a week, making it the single busiest in the world. "We're really maxed-out here," says British Air Commodore Gordon Moulds, head of the NATO organization that manages the base from a crumbling former air terminal where the Taliban regime made its last stand in late 2001. 
(See outsourcing Afghanistan: who's protecting our supply lines?)

Perhaps nowhere is that strain more obvious than waste management. First-time visitors can't help but notice the rotten egg-like stench that tinges the desert air. A half-mile away from the boardwalk lies the culprit: the so-called "poo pond," where everyone's waste is disposed. Originally dug out to accommodate 10,000 people, it is — like much of the infrastructure on base — overworked. To help clear the air, a second pond will likely be completed by the fall. It is part of a new extension that planners say is designed to free up extra space for vehicle parking, a second electrical plant and housing barracks as thousands more troops join the fight.

Of course, such sprawl means there's also more to look after. The security perimeter of NATO's largest base is already some 10 miles long and counting, ringed by a buffer zone that is regularly patrolled. These safeguards still haven't prevented militants from launching rocket, mortar and even ground attacks, as they have against other major bases around the country in recent weeks. Although no one has been killed at Kandahar air base this year, insurgents occasionally burst the bubble. A coordinated May 22 night-time assault wounded four people, bringing the total of injured over the past six months to at least 30, according to Squadron Leader Simon Openshaw, the deputy chief of base security. Nevertheless, for many of the troops and support staff who live on site, the fighter jets that streak overhead are their closest glimpse of the war.

This detachment from the grim reality on the ground has troubled some officers. Last year, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the then-commander of international forces in Afghanistan, ordered an investigation into whether non-essential supplies were a morale boost or stalling the flow of supplies to troops downrange. This spring, he forced several American fast-food chains to shut down, a move that disappointed plenty of soldiers hungry for a taste of home. "You just come back craving that American hamburger," says Army Lt. Hassan Kagoni, who visits about once a month from a frontline base in western Afghanistan's Herat province. Since the general's crackdown, he adds, "some people here are going through withdrawal." Predictably, the anonymous graffiti scrawled inside one of the boardwalk's Port-o-Johns is less measured: "I want my whopper. McChrystal sucks."

While the Burger King, Pizza Hut, and Thai massage parlor are now gone, so too is Gen. McChrystal, whose spartan authority did not apply to non-American owned businesses. Now, an Afghan-owned Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise is about to open on the boardwalk, and a Nathan's Hot Dog stand, of Coney Island fame, is said to be on the way. Construction is also due to start soon on an artificial turf soccer field and running track, amenities that Commodore Moulds says foster a sense of community among the base's multi-national personnel. The upgrade should be complete later this year, when a major military offensive around Kandahar is expected to be in full gear. Should Taliban attacks on base increase, caffeine die-hards need not worry: a sign posted outside Tim Horton's, the wildly popular Canadian coffee and doughnut chain, reminds patrons that it will reopen "approx[imately] 15 minutes after the all clear."

This story was reported with a grant from the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2001475,00.html#ixzz0stgnvNZn


----------



## eurowing (9 Jul 2010)

Here is the KFC on the boardwalk.  I saw no info pertaining to an opening date.


----------



## Jarnhamar (9 Jul 2010)

That's wild. (Thanks!)
All we need to do is let some of the local workers smuggle that stuff out to their Taliban buddies, show them what their missing and whamo. End of the war.


----------



## tomahawk6 (24 Jul 2010)

Petraeus thinks the fast food places are a morale issue. 



> Fast food may return to bases in Afghanistan
> 
> Gen. Petraeus ‘seriously considering’ reversing order
> By Karen Jowers - Staff writer
> ...


----------



## eurowing (24 Jul 2010)

KFC is now open and serving!  I don't eat at KFC at home so ....  sorry, can't comment on quality.


----------



## OldSolduer (27 Jul 2010)

eurowing said:
			
		

> KFC is now open and serving!  I don't eat at KFC at home so ....  sorry, can't comment on quality.



Same here. KFC is......lets say its not what it used to be.


----------



## The Bread Guy (27 Jul 2010)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Same here. KFC is......lets say its not what it used to be.


No more gravy with the 1/2 inch of oil/grease on top, for example....


----------



## Sig_Des (27 Jul 2010)

Remember seeing an all-you-can-eat buffet KFC, oddly enough in Kentucky. I was pretty disgusted by that actually.


----------



## PuckChaser (27 Jul 2010)

Good to see McChrystal closed the Pizza Hut that is used by troops in one of the most dangerous parts of the country, but his Pizza Hut at ISAF HQ in Kabul got to stay open.


----------



## Sparkplugs (12 Aug 2010)

Just as a public service, (I swear, I wasn't avoiding the messes,  ) I tried out the KFC after work the other day.  I can't lie, it was better than the KFC in Trenton.  The Extra Crispy chicken meal was spicy and greasy and delicious.  Of course, everything is delicious after being in the messes.  I've spent this tour avoiding such delicacies like roasted pork neck, MMMMM.  I think I've eaten at the mess a total of 10 times this trip... Me and the Chef Boyardee have become very good friends here.  Now, to go back to Canada and try to fend off this pesky scurvy!**

**Note, I kid, I kid!  I don't have scurvy... I drink the Rani juice to prevent it.  Like drinking a fruit cup or something -- so weird!


Also as a note, moving Timmies did nothing for the lines... It just makes parking over on this side of the base even more difficult, now there are a million US, Romanian, Dutch, etc vehicles all over the place.  I wonder how everyone's doing now, Tim's has been closed for a few days with a "No Water" sign on the door.  Mwahahaha, pretty happy I'm not a coffee drinker!


----------



## jollyjacktar (12 Aug 2010)

The boardwalk won't be the same. :'(


----------



## vonGarvin (12 Aug 2010)

Sparkplugs:
Keep quiet and eat your pork neck!  ;D


----------



## TN2IC (12 Aug 2010)

Timmies better be fix before I load on my chalk!


----------



## Franko (12 Aug 2010)

Oh the hard life of living in KAF.....           :

Regards


----------



## vonGarvin (13 Aug 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Oh the hard life of living in KAF.....           :
> 
> Regards


If I hear a KAF vs FOB vs OTW vs COP vs whatever argument here, I'm going to blow my lid.  We ALL face challenges, and ALL challenges were unique.  Some were more risky to life and limb, but I could toss out that when I went OTW, I was in a pop can, not a 60+ ton IED eating machine.


It's all relative.


Now, about that Pork Neck...

POST EDITED UPON REFLECTION OF USING A POOR CHOICE OF WORDS...

Now, seriously, what's up with Pork Neck?


----------



## Sparkplugs (13 Aug 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> If I hear a KAF vs FOB vs OTW vs COP vs whatever argument here, I'm going to blow my lid.  We ALL face challenges, and ALL challenges were unique.  Some were more risky to life and limb, but I could toss out that when I went OTW, I was in a pop can, not a 60+ ton IED eating machine.
> 
> 
> It's all relative.
> ...



For real, I don't know!  I had never heard of anyone eating pork neck before... Is it some strange delicacy I've never heard of?  Either way, I'm happily on the ground in the camp of the ice cream and wrap bar.  And humidity.  See you in the fall, Kaf!


----------



## Edward Campbell (13 Aug 2010)

See e.g. this and this.









Pork Neck - raw and cooked

Pork Neck, like its neighbour, the fat back, is a popular cut in Asia, where tasty food is still valued and fat intake is controlled by serving small quantities of fatty meat along with lots of veggies.


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## CombatDoc (15 Aug 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Oh the hard life of living in KAF.....           :


After eating at a Canadian FOB where they have (excellent) Canadian cooks, try eating at the Supreme DFACs on KAF.  You may revise your opinion.


----------



## Franko (15 Aug 2010)

CombatDoc said:
			
		

> After eating at a Canadian FOB where they have (excellent) Canadian cooks, try eating at the Supreme DFACs on KAF.  You may revise your opinion.



Did 4 times, either coming in or going out. Also lived out of KAF (when not in Lagman or Ghazni) when we did the move from Kabul. 

If you hate Supreme, you'd die at a DFAC.

At least the chances of getting the krud 6 times in a tour is somewhat lessened in KAF.

Regards


----------



## aesop081 (15 Aug 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> At least the chances of getting the krud 6 times in a tour is somewhat lessened in KAF.



Even you picked your trade DP...........even you.


----------



## Franko (15 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Even you picked your trade DP...........even you.



Yep, sure did but that's not the point. Things have massively improved in KAF and yet there are still whiners.

It's a frackin' war zone....some people tend to forget that.

Regards


----------



## aesop081 (15 Aug 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> It's a frackin' war zone....some people tend to forget that.



Just like some people forget they joined the combat arms so they get to play with big guns and kill stuff.


----------



## TN2IC (15 Aug 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Oh the hard life of living in KAF.....           :
> 
> Regards



Do you think I signed up to hang out in KAF? 

Regards


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## Sparkplugs (15 Aug 2010)

I was complaining about pork neck as a joke.  I thank my lucky stars every freakin' day here that I joined the trade I did.  I have no complaints about kaf beyond the food.  And I've eaten at other places, DFAC's included.  If the herc breaks somewhere shady, I still have to get my rear out there and fix it, which means that yes, I am not in kaf all of the time.  Let's not turn this into a "When I was your age, I walked to school uphill both ways in a snowstorm in -1000 degrees in my bare feet, blah blah" argument, it's silly.  There's nothing wrong with trying to enjoy a little piece of home when you're so far away from it.  Yes, there are people worse off -- but there will always be someone worse off than you, even the guys out in the fobs, or OTW doing crap jobs -- always worse things to do, or places to be.  We're all in it together.  I may not get shot at every day, but if it weren't for me and others like me, you wouldn't make it back to CM to catch your hlta flight, or your ride home.  We're all part of the same team here.


----------



## jollyjacktar (15 Aug 2010)

Supreme was far better overall than KBR was from my first time over.  But, I did miss the dirty bird and blackened catfish that KBR used to do on a regular basis.


----------



## PMedMoe (15 Aug 2010)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Supreme was far better overall than KBR was from my first time over.  But, I did miss the dirty bird and blackened catfish that KBR used to do on a regular basis.



Sorry I can't say the same.  I preferred KBR over Supreme.


----------



## GK .Dundas (15 Aug 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Ah .....That explains all the noise!


----------



## Sparkplugs (15 Aug 2010)

My first trip over earlier in the year, Supreme wasn't nearly this bad, actually...  A lot of the stuff comes from Pakistan, and because of all the weather stuff going on there, they're running short of almost everything.

For awhile there was no rice, no pasta, no veggies outside of cans, no beef, no chicken, no milk --  so lots and lots of pork, every day, was all there was for a few weeks.  That was the worst part of this trip for sure.  I didn't mind it too much last time, I ate at the pasta bar a lot, it was usually a safe bet.


----------



## DirtyDog (15 Aug 2010)

Never spent more then a couple of days at KAF but the Supreme kitchen out at Frontenec does an awesome job the few time I've been there.

Plus they stock near beer,Rip It Fuel drinks,  and Cliff bars .


----------



## Arsenal (16 Aug 2010)

Heater bags and rats for 6 months, it was nice getting pizza hut when we came in for HLTA. Just limit the pogs to 3 whoppers a day or something I dont see the problem.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Aug 2010)

Arsenal said:
			
		

> Just limit the pogs to 3 whoppers a day or something I dont see the problem.


Well, FYI, this pog has 1 whopper/tour.  Hope that didn't piss you off that this pog had a whopper.  Seems I was too busy getting massages and olive oil treatments (between pedicures) to walk over to BK.  Actually, I never walked, we had a pedway installed.  :


----------



## PMedMoe (16 Aug 2010)

Arsenal said:
			
		

> Just limit the pogs to 3 whoppers a day or something I dont see the problem.



Nice.   :  I had a Whopper once on my first tour, but had to drive from Kabul to Bagram to get it, manning the shotgun part of the way.  Good enough for you?*

*Completely rhetorical, I really don't give a rat's ass.


----------



## eurowing (16 Aug 2010)

I have been here since Dec 08....  I've had 1 Whopper in early 09 and it was awful!  Pizza, twice, tolerable.  DFACs make pretty good food and except for lining up for everything, they aren't terrible places to eat.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Aug 2010)

The pizza was good for those times when stuck in the TOC on extended planning sessions and there wasn't sufficient time during the regulated meals hours to head to a mess hall (I *refuse* to call them "DFACs").


----------



## eurowing (16 Aug 2010)

With the opening of the North Line (mess hall ;D) us flight line guys don't miss meals any longer.  With 12 hr shifts there was never much need for the other facilities.  Timmies excepted, it was a nice walk about.  Without Timmies....  you should see how empty the boardwalk is.  A huge change.


----------



## Kat Stevens (16 Aug 2010)

Shane Stachnic was a POG.  Shawn Eades was a POG.  So was Marty Goudreault.  They were all friends of mine, and are gone now.  The world is a poorer place without them in it.  Suck it, Mr rough tough infantry guy.


----------



## aesop081 (16 Aug 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Suck it, Mr rough tough infantry guy.



Pte with 3 years in. Obviously an enlightened opinion wouldnt you say ?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Aug 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Shane Stachnic was a POG.  Shawn Eades was a POG.  So was Marty Goudreault.  They were all friends of mine, and are gone now.  The world is a poorer place without them in it.  Suck it, Mr rough tough infantry guy.



Post of the year.
Bruce


----------



## Illegio (16 Aug 2010)

> Never spent more then a couple of days at KAF but the Supreme kitchen out at Frontenec does an awesome job the few time I've been there.
> 
> Plus they stock near beer,Rip It Fuel drinks,  and Cliff bars .



They have Supreme out at FOB Fabulous now? *sigh* How the mighty have fallen.

It was always a goldmine for snacks though, especially after the battlegroup moved to Wilson in the summer of '08. Ah, memories...


----------



## vonGarvin (17 Aug 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Shane Stachnic was a POG.  Shawn Eades was a POG.  So was Marty Goudreault.  They were all friends of mine, and are gone now.  The world is a poorer place without them in it.  Suck it, Mr rough tough infantry guy.


I would offer that you're wrong.  I offer that the world is a better place for having had them in it, guys like them, willing to do what they did.


Though they will be missed.


----------



## Kat Stevens (17 Aug 2010)

And it would be even better if they were still in it.


----------



## vonGarvin (17 Aug 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> And it would be even better if they were still in it.


Agreed.


----------



## OldSolduer (17 Aug 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Agreed.




Agreed as well. Lets remember what's important. My 2 cents


----------



## Jarnhamar (17 Aug 2010)

KAF types complain about how hard life is in KAF.
FOB types complain about how great life is in KAF then when in KAF bitch about it and complain how much they miss the FOB.
Combat arms types bitch about support types getting the same danger pay as them.
Infantry types bitch about doing infantry things.
Clerk types bitch about doing clerk things.
Soldiers bitch about not seeing enough action. (We never get to do shit!)
Soldiers bitch about seeing too much action. (Why doesn't someone else get to do shit!)

BUT, we all bitch about the fast food places being closed down  ;D  (Okay well most!)


----------



## SeanNewman (17 Aug 2010)

Apollo,

Well said and demonstrated.  Sometimes we need to be reminded that we're all 99% the same and on the same team; not enemies.


----------



## Strike (18 Aug 2010)

GROUP HUG!

Was chatting with some guys who just got back and everyone's bitching about the lack of french fries because of the supply routes being somewhat closed from the floods.


----------



## PuckChaser (18 Aug 2010)

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> KAF types complain about how hard life is in KAF.
> FOB types complain about how great life is in KAF then when in KAF ***** about it and complain how much they miss the FOB.
> Combat arms types ***** about support types getting the same danger pay as them.
> Infantry types ***** about doing infantry things.
> ...



Summary: It's a soldier's right to b****, and we exercise that on a minute by minute basis.


----------



## Sparkplugs (18 Aug 2010)

Strike said:
			
		

> GROUP HUG!
> 
> Was chatting with some guys who just got back and everyone's bitching about the lack of french fries because of the supply routes being somewhat closed from the floods.



You should have seen the lines when the fries came back -- good lord it was ridiculous!  

Funny though, how all the fast food places on the boardwalk could get fries but none of the messes could!   ;D


----------



## DirtyDog (30 Aug 2010)

Illegio said:
			
		

> They have Supreme out at FOB Fabulous now? *sigh* How the mighty have fallen.
> 
> It was always a goldmine for snacks though, especially after the battlegroup moved to Wilson in the summer of '08. Ah, memories...


Last time I was there Supreme had steak, lobster tails, and popcorn shrimp on the menu.  It was the best food I've had in Afghanistan by far.  And between the Becks near beer, cliff bars, jack links jerky and energy drinks, I'd say it's still a goldmine for snacks.

Keep in mind it's not a Canadian FOB anymore...


----------



## VIChris (1 Sep 2010)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Summary: It's a soldier's right to b****, and we exercise that on a minute by minute basis.



You can't spell disgruntled without GRUNT!


----------



## tomahawk6 (6 Oct 2010)

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/10/military-fast-food-afghanistan-petraeus-100610w/

Petraeus lets fast food back into Afghanistan

By Karen Jowers - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Oct 6, 2010 18:50:39 EDT
   
The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan has given the green light to bring fast food and other concessions back to Afghanistan.

“These quality-of-life programs remain important to soldiers for stress relief and therefore enhancing military readiness,” Gen. David Petraeus wrote in an Oct. 4 order.

The ultimate goal of restoring these concessions to Afghanistan, he wrote, is “boosting residents’ morale on U.S. bases.”

Information was not immediately available from Army and Air Force Exchange Service officials on a timeline for returning the concessions to Afghanistan, once commanders request that specific concessions be reopened.

The order rescinds a closure order issued Feb. 3 by former Afghanistan commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who directed 50 AAFES concessionaires to close within 90 days following a review of morale, welfare and recreation activities within the war zone.

“MWR should never be the distracter that changes the focus of the mission,” McChrystal wrote in his order, which he described as an effort “to reduce the MWR/QOL [quality of life] footprint” in the Afghanistan theater of operations.

In his new order, Petraeus noted that AAFES concessions must be “right-sized and tailored for an expeditionary force in order to ensure that they do not become distractions to the mission.”

Prior to McChrystal’s order, AAFES operated 141 eateries and shops in Afghanistan. After the May closures, 84 remained. Among the 57 closed were Burger King, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and Popeyes restaurants, as well as new-car sales offices, jewelry, perfume and souvenir shops.

Petraeus reiterated in his Oct. 4 order that exchange concessions operate in contingency environments at the request of the combatant commander and subordinate commands. “It is a unit commander’s decision, driven by space and support, to determine if and where these facilities would reopen,” he wrote.

As before, concession contractors transport equipment and supplies at their own expense through a commercial entity.


----------



## CombatDoc (4 Nov 2010)

Given the potential re-opening of fast food in KAF, I wonder if they will have poutine available for Roto 10?  ;D


----------



## DirtyDog (4 Nov 2010)

CombatDoc said:
			
		

> Given the potential re-opening of fast food in KAF, I wonder if they will have poutine available for Roto 10?  ;D


There is plenty of fast food there still.....


----------



## TN2IC (5 Nov 2010)

Oui...  :nod:


----------



## GAP (22 Feb 2011)

Afghan Forces Eat Up Return of Fast Food 
 FEBRUARY 22, 2011, 2:41 A.M. ET
Article Link
By MATTHEW ROSENBERG

KABUL—U.S. forces may be planning a drawdown from Afghanistan in coming months, but in at least one area they're busy expanding their girth: junk food.

Nearly a year after fast-food joints were tossed off U.S.-led coalition bases, Pizza Hut made a comeback last week, reopening at Camp Phoenix on the edge of Kabul. The restaurant—really just a takeout trailer—"fired up its ovens and opened its doors to anxious service members wanting a 'taste of home,' " declared a statement from U.S. Forces-Afghanistan. The press release included fuzzy snapshots of smiling soldiers digging into fresh pizza.

Another Pizza Hut will soon be opening at Bagram Air Field northeast of Kabul, alongside one of the other once-exiled fast-food franchises, a Burger King, U.S. Forces said.

The return of fast-food outlets is the latest sign of the changes made by U.S. Gen. David Petraeus, who took over command of U.S. and coalition forces in June 2010. Most have dealt with far weightier matters: relaxing rules of engagement for troops, increasing airstrikes and the tempo of secretive Special Operations missions to kill or capture insurgent commanders, and striking new alliances with controversial warlords.

But few of Gen. Petraeus's changes will likely prove as popular with the troops as the return of fast food. U.S. soldiers and Marines are a young bunch, many of them raised around the ever-present fast-food outlets of America. Nearly all are eager to complain about how quickly mess-hall fare, provided by defense contractors, gets old.

Back before Gen. Petraeus's predecessor, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, imposed the ban in March 2010, the lines for the Burger King and Subway franchises at the two biggest American bases—Bagram Air Field and Kandahar Air Field—were often 20 or 30 people deep.

That is despite the fact that fast-food outlets were routinely out of ingredients because of supply problems. More than a few times, Burger King at Kandahar Air Field was down to serving only french fries.
More on link


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## The Bread Guy (22 Feb 2011)

And the fate of KAF's Timmies, according to the above-linked article?


> .... The Canadian doughnut chain Tim Hortons at Kandahar Air Field was also allowed to stay, though it had to move from its prime location on the boardwalk to a more discreet locale near the Canadian section of the base.
> 
> The fact that the U.S. was at the time trying to convince Canada not to pull its combat forces out of Kandahar in 2011 helped to keep Tim Hortons' franchise there alive, said a coalition official at the time.
> 
> He laughed when he explained the reasoning, but he wasn't joking. Canadian forces are nonetheless leaving Kandahar this year. Whether Tim Hortons, which has become a favorite of all the uniformed doughnut lovers, will stay after the last Canadian soldier goes remains an open question.


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## CombatDoc (22 Feb 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> And the fate of KAF's Timmies, according to the above-linked article?


Although the article states that Timmies had to move from it's "prime location on the boardwalk", where it is now located in the Canadian lines is a much better location for most Canadians living near it.  If I was a betting man, I doubt that Timmies will be staying after Canada leaves KAF.  For one thing, all of the civilian employees belong to CFPSA which belongs to NSE.  No NSE, no CFPSA, nobody to run Tims.


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## eurowing (22 Feb 2011)

I suppose there is some potential for Timmies to move to Kabul to serve the troops moving there.  At least, that is the (wishful) KAF rumour amongst CFPSA workers.


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