# Canadian Millitia/Insurgent tactics?



## Pieman (20 Nov 2015)

I am wondering if there is any kind of information/operations manual that is geared towards situations where North America would be overrun with an occupational force? I am thinking that back in the cold war, there may have been tactical information for a militia to engage occupying Russian forces if they got a foot hold in some area? Effectively something to allow for civilians to organize an insurgent style opposition force.  I guess a 'Red Dawn' type of situation. Perhaps that might be a future Chinese scenario.

I have been thinking about what I would do in such situations, what kind of weapons could I put together with stuff that is in my garage, home depot, etc. It's funny because the best the Taliban could muster was diesel fuel mixed with fertilizer, and rigging some basic charge mechanisms. 

The things I was able to come up with so far are a bit scary by comparison. ha. 

Anyway, if there is no information like this available then it is something I am considering putting something like that together. Anyone know of an operations manual or something like this out there? I have googled but no luck finding something so far.


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## ModlrMike (20 Nov 2015)

There is a training film on the subject.


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## yayotheo (21 Nov 2015)

Anarchist's cookbook?


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## Remius (21 Nov 2015)

Something tells me this post is now being monitored and Pieman has made it on a "list" somewhere.

 ;D


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## daftandbarmy (21 Nov 2015)

Pieman said:
			
		

> I am wondering if there is any kind of information/operations manual that is geared towards situations where North America would be overrun with an occupational force? I am thinking that back in the cold war, there may have been tactical information for a militia to engage occupying Russian forces if they got a foot hold in some area? Effectively something to allow for civilians to organize an insurgent style opposition force.  I guess a 'Red Dawn' type of situation. Perhaps that might be a future Chinese scenario.
> 
> I have been thinking about what I would do in such situations, what kind of weapons could I put together with stuff that is in my garage, home depot, etc. It's funny because the best the Taliban could muster was diesel fuel mixed with fertilizer, and rigging some basic charge mechanisms.
> 
> ...



Yes. The American Revolutionary War is well documented

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution


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## Pieman (21 Nov 2015)

> There is a training film on the subject.


Kinda of what I'm thinking, but a handbook for the real thing.



> Anarchist's cookbook?


Kind of along the same lines but with defense against occupational force as the focus. Have you ever read that though? I did about ten or more years ago...has it been updated? What I saw was junk and looks like it was written by a teenager. It also doesn't even begin tap into technology available when it was written, let alone today.



> Something tells me this post is now being monitored and Pieman has made it on a "list" somewhere


I'm on all kinds of lists. 



> Yes. The American Revolutionary War is well documented


umm. sure....perhaps you can let us know how you load your musket? Make sure the nurses in the old folks home are okay with it first though. 

From the comments, I'm thinking there is nothing good out there.  That's good as I have a side project now.


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## The Bread Guy (21 Nov 2015)

Pieman said:
			
		

> I am wondering if there is any kind of information/operations manual that is geared towards situations where North America would be overrun with an occupational force? I am thinking that back in the cold war, there may have been tactical information for a militia to engage occupying Russian forces if they got a foot hold in some area? Effectively something to allow for civilians to organize an insurgent style opposition force.  I guess a 'Red Dawn' type of situation. Perhaps that might be a future Chinese scenario.
> 
> (....)
> 
> Anyway, if there is no information like this available then it is something I am considering putting something like that together. Anyone know of an operations manual or something like this out there? I have googled but no luck finding something so far.


I know in videos of English-speaking separatist fighters in eastern Ukraine, a lot of them, for some reason, like to show this book off ....





.... so it _might_ be worth exploring for material.


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## Fabius (21 Nov 2015)

There is also "Total Resistance: A Guerrilla Warfare Manual for Everyone". It was written in 1957 by the Swiss army officer Hans von Dach to prepare the Swiss population for an occupation of Switzerland by Warsaw Pact forces, an eventuality then considered possible in the context of the Cold War.


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## ueo (21 Nov 2015)

Did a paper on this many years ago while a student at Staff School. In a nut shell my basic conclusion was that the development of a "guerilla" force in south western Ontario was feasible but its leadership would have to come from the community while its arms etc. would have been purloined from existing stocks. Tactical advice would be provided by trained soldiers who had escaped/avoided capture by an occupying force. Tactics were classical small unit ambush/raids etc. designed to weaken the occupiers will and thereby encourage him to depart. Passed the course but PO'd many of the Cbt Arms DS for whom this novel idea (stolen from Mao, Fidel and the usual gang) was the ultimate in heresy. To the question, read much of the doctrine published by the US, Brits and the French from the 60's and early 70's or the histories of other early SF organisations.


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## daftandbarmy (21 Nov 2015)

ueo said:
			
		

> Did a paper on this many years ago while a student at Staff School. In a nut shell my basic conclusion was that the development of a "guerilla" force in south western Ontario was feasible but its leadership would have to come from the community while its arms etc. would have been purloined from existing stocks. Tactical advice would be provided by trained soldiers who had escaped/avoided capture by an occupying force. Tactics were classical small unit ambush/raids etc. designed to weaken the occupiers will and thereby encourage him to depart. Passed the course but PO'd many of the Cbt Arms DS for whom this novel idea (stolen from Mao, Fidel and the usual gang) was the ultimate in heresy. To the question, read much of the doctrine published by the US, Brits and the French from the 60's and early 70's or the histories of other early SF organisations.



Or you could just facilitate an AAR with this bunch and apply the lessons learned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ontario_terrorism_plot


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## Pieman (22 Nov 2015)

> I know in videos of English-speaking separatist fighters in eastern Ukraine, a lot of them, for some reason, like to show this book off ....


Thanks, I will have a look at this. Written in 1943 though. I really think the types of weapons that a modern, educated insurgent can put together will change things a lot. Not to say that the tactics here are not relevant.



> To the question, read much of the doctrine published by the US, Brits and the French from the 60's and early 70's or the histories of other early SF organisations.


Will look into that as well. Again, I think the capabilities of an insurgent created here today will be very different from even the early 90's. Has a lot to do with the type of technology that is over the shelf these days. For example 3D printers could have a major role in weapon production. 



> There is also "Total Resistance: A Guerrilla Warfare Manual for Everyone". It was written in 1957 by the Swiss army officer Hans von Dach to prepare the Swiss population for an occupation of Switzerland by Warsaw Pact forces, an eventuality then considered possible in the context of the Cold War.


Will look at this as well, thanks. 

I'll come back at some point with an outline of how I am going to proceed for those who may be interested.


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## Old Sweat (22 Nov 2015)

Just a thought that may or may not be off the wall. You might check the literature on gangs re their motivation and operations and how to combat them. The MND apparently used the methodology the Vancouver Police Service employed in that city successfully against the Taliban, who shared a number of features with urban gangs.


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## Pieman (22 Nov 2015)

> Just a thought that may or may not be off the wall. You might check the literature on gangs re their motivation and operations and how to combat them. The MND apparently used the methodology the Vancouver Police Service employed in that city successfully against the Taliban, who shared a number of features with urban gangs.



Yes, I recall this as I worked with Lt. Col Sajjan overseas and he was talking a lot about that. I'm more looking at developing a manual for the people on the insurgent side in US/Canada.  Operating like a mafia is the norm over there, which was around long before the invasion. I'm not sure if it would come into play in North America.


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## Journeyman (22 Nov 2015)

Pieman said:
			
		

> I'm more looking at developing a manual for the people on the insurgent side in US/Canada.


Why?


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## PuckChaser (22 Nov 2015)

If its in a book, someone gets ahold of it, probably the people we'd be using the tactics against. That's the whole point about irregular/guerrilla warfare, its unpredictable.


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## dapaterson (22 Nov 2015)

Wolverines!


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## Loch Sloy! (22 Nov 2015)

http://www.coleshillhouse.com/bunkers.php


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## daftandbarmy (23 Nov 2015)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Why?



Is he the Adjt for the Michigan Militia?

"Due to ISIS threats, we are on Yellow alert for now. Check your mags, gear, water, and other loadout. Contact your team leader or other SMVM staff."

http://www.michiganmilitia.com/


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## Pieman (23 Nov 2015)

> Why?



First, I asked myself what would be different if we went into Afghanistan where the population was somewhat educated, and had access to similar resources as I did here in Canada. We were up against people using asymmetrical warfare tactics using dominantly the most primitive forms of weapons with decent success. 

I looked at the resources available to myself in my home. Looking at the computers/electronics around my home, the supplies/chemicals/cleaning supplies in my house. Chemicals/supplies available in home depot etc. I realized what a different enemy would would have been facing if they had access to the same stuff I do....especially the off-the-shelf potassium based acids used for metal cleaning. Mercy! 

If they were not so basic and primitive, the situation would have been very different. I can't guess to how much more successful they would have been, but we likely would have had a much harder war.

Second, technology has changed enough that I think the type of weapons and tactics that could be created are going to have a major impact on how North Americans would fight an occupational force. 

Third, if we know what a high-tech, educated, resourceful insurgent really looks like and is capable of doing, then we can anticipate and create counter-tactics/tech. If we happen to go into a country that is a lot smarter and capable then we are not caught with out pants down. 




> If its in a book, someone gets ahold of it, probably the people we'd be using the tactics against. That's the whole point about irregular/guerrilla warfare, its unpredictable.



If it became a good document, then parts could be kept close to the chest of someone official and made available when need be. I'm likely going to be working with the military and strategic studies department at the UofC if this project actually moves forward. 



> Wolverines!


The question is whether we should all get the high school jackets, or not? 



> Is he the Adjt for the Michigan Militia?


I'm talking about creating a potentially useful document here, not forming a group or anything.


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## Pieman (23 Nov 2015)

> http://www.coleshillhouse.com/bunkers.php


Almost missed your link. Excellent info there! Thank you.


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## a_majoor (23 Nov 2015)

Pieman said:
			
		

> First, I asked myself what would be different if we went into Afghanistan where the population was somewhat educated, and had access to similar resources as I did here in Canada. We were up against people using asymmetrical warfare tactics using dominantly the most primitive forms of weapons with decent success.
> 
> I looked at the resources available to myself in my home. Looking at the computers/electronics around my home, the supplies/chemicals/cleaning supplies in my house. Chemicals/supplies available in home depot etc. I realized what a different enemy would would have been facing if they had access to the same stuff I do....especially the off-the-shelf potassium based acids used for metal cleaning. Mercy!
> 
> ...



One interesting thing about the evolution of 4GW and related tools (i.e. using fairly sophisticated devices made from cheaply available materials in your house) is it replicated the "Infantry Revolution" of the late 1400's, where developments like crossbows, pike squares and revised tactics mean that large numbers of people with minimal training could become effective on the battlefield against the highly trained and expensively equipped knights and other men at arms (such as English longbowmen or Ottoman Jannissaries with compound bows) who needed a lifetime of training to be effective.

The cost ratio between an IED team making a weapon out of a pressure cooker vs the LAV III destroyed and the crew killed is very much in favour of the IED team in terms of the resources needed.


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## Journeyman (23 Nov 2015)

Pieman said:
			
		

> I'm likely going to be working with the military and strategic studies department at the UofC_ if this project actually moves forward_.


Ah well, you giddy up then.


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## Pieman (25 Nov 2015)

> The cost ratio between an IED team making a weapon out of a pressure cooker vs the LAV III destroyed and the crew killed is very much in favour of the IED team in terms of the resources needed.



Very much so. I wonder what they would have needed to get a better foot hold up against such a drastic difference between resources and technology. Hit and run is basically all they were doing...mind you in '09 they were saving up their resources for the election and disruption of the voting process. It was like a years worth of activities in the span of two days. 



> Ah well, you giddy up then.


I do intend to incorporate ideas from the community here at some point. So will post again when I have a more concrete path forward.


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