# Electronic Warfare Support



## Bograt (5 Jan 2005)

Curious to know if we are still using t-birds and Challengers for EW work. I heard that the t-birds were retired and the challengers were being converted to VIP transport and or sold. (There are no Challengers in Greenwood correct?)

Is this correct? If so, what is the navy using to simulate vampire attacks? Is it being contracted out to civilians?


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## aesop081 (5 Jan 2005)

The T-birds and the EW challengers are indeed gone....1 Cdn Air Div has an EW challenger on display in front of the gate.  The navy has a contract for "vampire" out to civies ( west coast at least).

As for the rest of EW in the air force...don't get me started !!


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## Garry (29 Jan 2005)

We've contracted out the jobs the challengers and t-brids used to do to civ firms- mostly US- flying a-4's and some old brit (can't remember) aircraft. Shame, really, the T-brids were just upgraded and did a fine job....so good in fact that the US used love it when we came down.

Rumours of the f-5's being rejuvenated, but I think that's a pipe dream....

Tough to see the spiral, but $$ are tight.

Keep smiling......


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## Zoomie (30 Jan 2005)

Garry said:
			
		

> Rumours of the f-5's being rejuvenated, but I think that's a pipe dream....



Quite the rumour that is totally unsubstantiated...  The Freedom Fighter will not be coming back to CF service.


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## mdh (30 Jan 2005)

We've contracted out EW to civilians???? How the heck does that work?


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## George Wallace (30 Jan 2005)

There is a company flying out of Victoria.  The CF has hired them as OPFOR on several occassions.  I understand some of their pilots are still serving members.  They flew Swedish jets, I seem to recall, during BTE in 2003 (but my Aircraft Recognition is rusty).

GW


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## SeaKingTacco (30 Jan 2005)

> They flew Swedish jets, I seem to recall, during BTE in 2003 (but my Aircraft Recognition is rusty).



Actually former Swedish Air Force Hawker Hunters.To my knowledge, none of the pilots are serving members of the CF.   Most that I spoke to were former CF pilots.   Some may still be reservists...


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## mdh (30 Jan 2005)

Interesting stuff, I fly out of Victoria airport regularly and I have never seen them operating - but then again if it's EW then perhaps it's only done in the dead of night when all of us are sleeping secure in the knowledge that our nation is safe from prying eyes unless they're our own sub-contracted ones.... ;D


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## aesop081 (30 Jan 2005)

Its some of the same guys who come to gagetown for the FAC courses........


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## NCRCrow (31 Jan 2005)

Electronic Warfare Support check out:

The United States Navy & DOD solution to threat simulation:

http://www.phoenixair.com/force/warfare.html

and 

Check your CF Electronic Warfare Center:

http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/adm_im/organization/CFIOG/CFEWC/index_e.htm


for some information.


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## crazyleggs (23 Feb 2005)

A contract was awarded this morning for Combat Support to the CF.  The press release should follow shortly.


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## NCRCrow (23 Feb 2005)

Phoenix Air ?

XWave?


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## crazyleggs (9 Mar 2005)

http://www.canada.com/businesscentre/story.html?id=2641a53d-f29a-4ce7-96c7-5c06a906907a

That's Top Aces' press release.  DND's press release should make it in the papers tomorrow.

The Dornier jets they mention are ex German Alpha Jet "A"s that they used in Close Air Support.


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## NCRCrow (9 Mar 2005)

WOW..I am going to apply.


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## X-Rigger (1 Apr 2005)

434 Sqn was another victim of Liberal budget cuts.  I spent 3 years with 434 Sqn maintaining the T-33's and Challengers.  They could always meet their tasking requests and had high a/c serviceability.  The T-33's were very economical to fly, hard to detect on radar and gave all their customers (HMC Ships, Air Defense gunners, and CF18s) a good run for their money.  To my knowledge, no contractor has been able to provide the same level or diversity of service that 434 (or 414) Sqn provided - especially on short notice.  Can anyone prove otherwise?


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## NCRCrow (1 Apr 2005)

Phoenix Air is a very effective service, but expensive.

Phoenix Air will fly in any weather and have the ability to tailor scenerios that are realistic (EW Sim) or Gunnery/(MDI). 

The T-33 having no radar and a suspect simulator made it effective for the Weapons/Radar teams but left us EW's to watch along the side.


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## X-Rigger (1 Apr 2005)

NCRCrow said:
			
		

> Phoenix Air is a very effective service, but expensive.
> 
> The T-33 having no radar and a suspect simulator made it effective for the Weapons/Radar teams but left us EW's to watch along the side.



I'm not completely sure what you mean there, but I've seen our T-33s return from missions early after having "sunk" all the ships or killed all the bird gunners.  Can you clarify what you meant?


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## crazyleggs (27 Apr 2005)

A little more info on the program from Jane's.




JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - MARCH 16, 2005 

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Canada selects airborne training services provider 
Sharon Hobson JDW Correspondent
Ottawa 

The Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) has finally selected a contractor to supply airborne training services to the army, navy and air force - three years after withdrawing its own combat support jets from service. 

Under its Interim Contracted Airborne Training Services project, the DND has awarded three standing offers to Top Aces Consulting of Pointe Claire, Quebec, to provide fast jets for target support, electronic warfare (EW) training and target towing. The standing offers are valued at about C$30 million (US$24.9 million) per year; up to C$93.9 million for a period of three years, with two one-year options to renew. 

The DND set the budget for the contractor services at C$50 million per year but none of the five bidders for the contract was able to meet the requirements for a final aspect of the service - that of providing all the same support services, but with a business jet. Brian Watson, director of Major Service Procurement (Air), told JDW that "for the area where we were unsuccessful, we're looking at taking that and breaking it down into different packages" of target support, target towing and EW. 

The project office will use the next five years working with Top Aces to "assess what our longer term requirements are", said Watson. He expects the government's defence policy review, which is due to be announced shortly, to affect these. 

Top Aces, a company founded in December 2000 by three former fighter pilots, will use the Dornier Alpha Jet A, with modifications to the avionics, event recorder and ejection seat, to provide the combat services. The DND will supply the fuel for the aircraft and the EW pods: the AN/ALQ-167, AN/AST-6 threat emitter system pod and AN/ASQ-T503 air combat manoeuvring instrumentation pods. 

The DND decided to contract out for combat training services in 1999 for budgetary reasons. Combat training support had previously been provided by the air force using CC/CE-144 Challenger aircraft that were stood down on 1 April 2000 and CT/ET-133 Silver Star aircraft that were withdrawn from service in April 2002. When the first attempt at hiring a contractor failed, the services had to turn to various private companies offering limited services, as well as allies, to help them meet their training requirements. 

'Canadian contract plan scuppered by failed bids' (JDW 2 July 2003) 




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© 2005 Jane's Information Group


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