# Why can't some civi's tell the diffenrce between cadet's and soldiers



## greenjacket (30 Jul 2008)

I was just wandering if thier was anyone else out there who get's pissed off when people call you a cadet when they see you in full cadpat, i know for one that i'm enoyed that some people don't understand the difference between the Army Reserves.


----------



## kratz (30 Jul 2008)

Asking this quesion is like asking why civilians confuse Navy pers as being bus drivers when wearing the NCD rig.


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Jul 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> i know for one that i'm enoyed that some people don't understand the difference between the Army Reserves.



Between the Reserves and what?  ???   

Heck, there's some military people who can't tell the difference.   :  Does it really matter?


----------



## marshall sl (30 Jul 2008)

Maybe because your young? Or they have only ever seen cadets out on the street?  Not uncommon  same thing happened to us in the 70's


----------



## greenjacket (30 Jul 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> I was just wandering if thier was anyone else out there who get's pissed off when people call you a cadet when they see you in full cadpat, i know for one that i'm enoyed that some people don't understand the difference between the Army Reserves.



i ment to say between the army reserves and the cadets


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Jul 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> i ment to say between the army reserves and the cadets



Yeah, I got that, hence the winky guy!


----------



## JAWS228 (30 Jul 2008)

During our BMQ in Borden our course went to a hockey game in Orangeville and it said the seats were all reserved for the cadets.....

Its somewhat annoying I suppose, but who really cares?  Its not like theyre trying to slight you, some civilians just dont know the diffence is all.

my 2 cents anyhow.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jul 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> I was just wandering if thier



I just hope that you were not wandering into traffic.........that is dangerous.


----------



## cdn031 (30 Jul 2008)

I know I'm geting old when _I_ can't tell the difference... was up in Borden last week was shocked at how young the course candidates looked at the Cannex.

We expect far too much of the civilian world - and its not worthwhile to "educate" them. Let's hope that all can conduct themselves well and we will all just get along... ;D


----------



## AlphaQup (30 Jul 2008)

Do reserve soldiers wear different uniforms than those in RegF?


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Jul 2008)

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> Do reserve soldiers wear different uniforms than those in RegF?



No, *Cadets* wear different uniforms.


----------



## Neill McKay (30 Jul 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> I was just wandering if thier was anyone else out there who get's pissed off when people call you a cadet when they see you in full cadpat, i know for one that i'm enoyed that some people don't understand the difference between the Army Reserves.



For many people, especially in smaller centres, cadets are the closest thing they see to CF members on a regular basis.  That's who they think of when they see a military uniform.

Lots of people make the opposite mistake, seeing cadets and thinking they're CF members.

Still more people don't know what the difference is, or even that there is a difference.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2008)

My banker and lawyer use all kinds of terms I don't understand.  They understand that I don't know much about their jobs, and thats why I pay them the big bucks.

How many times on the news have you seen them call a BMP a "tank" or a Bison a "tank".  It seems their knowledge of CF customs, tradtions, uniforms and the rank structure ranks right up there with their AFV Rec, which, IMO, is fine.  

FWIW, I can't tell the difference between the guy that works "Produce" and the one in "Frozen Foods" at the grocery store either.   I sure hope they don't talk about me on Grocerystore.ca


----------



## Gager (30 Jul 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> I was just wandering if thier was anyone else out there who get's pissed off when people call you a cadet when they see you in full cadpat, i know for one that i'm enoyed that some people don't understand the difference between the Army Reserves.



No - probably cause we don't look like cadets ...


----------



## TheCheez (30 Jul 2008)

I remember some of my friends who did OJT in Toronto reporting being mistaken for auto mechanics while walking around in the flight suit.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (30 Jul 2008)

I think if its bothering you that much you may need help other then what you are getting from here.


----------



## gwp (30 Jul 2008)

The poster who said because you are young ... has it nailed. 

For example:
Right now there are 70 candidates on the Raven Aboriginal Youth Employment Program.  Of the 70, less than a dozen are over 19.  The average age is 17.  They are enrolled in the CF (with parental consent) Reserve for the duration of the course.  They are doing BMQ. They are issued a C-7, they will do field training ... just as any reserve recruit.  Other than the weapons training and the field work the course is comparable to the Cadet Leader Instructor Course ... map and compass, navigation, first aid, survival, basic military knowledge (ranks etc.), drill, dress, barrack husbandry ... you know the stuff.       

Without knowing the nuance of their official circumstance it defies any reasonable person to tell which children are the Raven Company and which are the cadet company.  The Ravens are wearing Cadpat the cadets are wearing OD.  The Ravens have C-7s.  The Cadets have DP Enfields. 

It is just the way it is ... PRes personnel 16 to 18 are children enrolled in the CF.  Cadets aged 12 to 18 are children in a youth program.  Without knowing ... there is no way to know.


----------



## AlphaQup (30 Jul 2008)

General said:
			
		

> No - probably cause we don't look like cadets ...


Can you give us a picture for comparison? Being civvies and all...


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> PRes personnel 16 to 18 are children enrolled in the CF.  Cadets aged 12 to 18 are children in a youth program.
> Without knowing ... there is no way to know.



While I agree that some cadets are children, I would say that 16 year old and up are 'young adults' or something along that line.  For that matter, we are all children to someone.    ;D

I just don't think the MSM need to see us in uniform referring to our young soldiers as children...if you follow me....


----------



## gwp (30 Jul 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I just don't think the MSM need to see us in uniform referring to our young soldiers as children...if you follow me....


Definition - Child - person who has not reached the age of discretion.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2008)

Somewhat ambiguous IMO but I know what you mean...its the way words such as these can be twisted that don't see things the same way you and I do.

 8)


----------



## Gager (30 Jul 2008)

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> Can you give us a picture for comparison? Being civvies and all...



Ok

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Royal_Canadian_Air_Cadets_marching.jpg
http://multimedia.simcoe.com/images/d3/8c/05640a9a44be8e735a8208ec3bb5.jpeg

and 

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.army.gc.ca/lfwa/photos/AS2007-0547a_l.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.army.gc.ca/lfwa/feature_stampede_parade.htm&h=521&w=729&sz=342&hl=en&start=157&um=1&tbnid=W1aB2JkQZ0sl1M:&tbnh=101&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcanadian%2Binfantry%2Bcadpat%26start%3D144%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

You can usually tell the difference on uniform - and that one group looks like kids and one group looks like adults ..


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2008)

General said:
			
		

> You can usually tell the difference on uniform - and that one group looks like kids and one group looks like adults ..




Sorry but...most BMQ courses look like kids.  I've taught them.  The one on ground here now?  Kids.  They look like kids.


----------



## George Wallace (30 Jul 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Sorry but...most BMQ courses look like kids.  I've taught them.  The one on ground here now?  Kids.  They look like kids.



That's what happens when you get old.


----------



## Gager (30 Jul 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That's what happens when you get old.



Zing


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2008)

GW

I'll settle for "old'ish"  ;D


----------



## George Wallace (30 Jul 2008)

Can we correct the title now?

Not "diffenrce"; but "difference".


----------



## Gager (30 Jul 2008)

I was wandering the same thing. So enoying.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2008)

:rofl:


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jul 2008)

I often get mistaken by a cadet as well, mostly because I look young.  I flew a Hawk in Calgary with an instructor a few months ago and a lady at the FBO (Airplane Gas Station for the non-AF Types) asked me : "So, is this a cadet plane in which you learn basics of flying?"  That was quite funny actually to see her face when I told her it's a Fighter Trainer...

Max


----------



## 1feral1 (31 Jul 2008)

Greeting to all valued members and guests,

In Australia, the AACC (Australian Army Cadet Corps), have a blue identifiable patch which is worn on the shoulder to identify all cadets and Aussie 'CIC' officers as Cadets and not ARA/AGR Defence Force members. This is the same Army standard size rectangular patch found with velcro backing. It looks smart with crossed torched and gold writing.

Perhaps this patch system should be considered by DND to identify cadets form service members.

Aussie 'CIC' officers do not have a Queen's comission, its an appointment, even as a civvy, or as a Defence Force member, who is, for example a currently serving CPL or SGT or WO, can be a CAPT/MAJ etc in the 'CIC' for Cadet Corps purposes. At the end of the trg night, and beginning of his workday, he reverts to his normal worm rank.

Serenity now!

OWDU


----------



## Towards_the_gap (31 Jul 2008)

Grow facial hair...go to the gym more....speak in a lower octave...

Then they might not mistake you.

Until then, there are much bigger things to worry about. 

Just politely correct them and carry on with your day.


----------



## armchair_throwaway (31 Jul 2008)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Perhaps this patch system should be considered by DND to identify cadets form service members.



Actually the cadet unit badge and the rank epauletts already have the word CADET on them.

But as many have said. The civilians aren't confusing Reserves with cadets, they thought *greenjacket* was a cadet most likely due to his youthful look.


----------



## Deleted member 30710 (31 Jul 2008)

I've met people who think "cadet" is the rank you have before private.


----------



## medaid (31 Jul 2008)

Pfff... come one now... all respectable Air Cadets or ex-Air Cadets know that the word CADET on our shoulders stood for:

*C*anadian
*A*ir
*D*efence
*E*lite
*T*eam

To the OP, just be professional, courteous and understanding. Explain to them their mistake, take the chance to educate them not in a condescending way, but in a nice and police way. They'll take that knowledge and the next time their friends or family or some idiot says "look it's the Cadets" when the local militia marches by on Remembrance Day they'll correct them. The world is a better place. 

Failing that, ignore it and carry on.


----------



## 1feral1 (31 Jul 2008)

lucia_engel said:
			
		

> Actually the cadet unit badge and the rank epauletts already have the word CADET on them.
> 
> But as many have said. The civilians aren't confusing Reserves with cadets, they thought *greenjacket* was a cadet most likely due to his youthful look.



Actually Lucia, with a patch like this one below which is sewn onto the shoulder of DPCU uniforms, and also on Poly dress uniforms (cadets have no distict uniform, they wear the same as us soldiers in the field or not), there would be less confusion with patches like this, and maybe a liitle more Esprit du Corps perhaps.

I am aware of slip-ons the Cadet movement uses, and thought CADPAT ones were not authorised.

As for the confusion between RCACC, Militia pers, what about Regular Force pers? Yes, they too can be 17 too. Frankly I've see many young looking soldiers both Reserve and Regular (and older looking cadets), and I was one myself once.

Regards from paradise.

OWDU

Regards,


----------



## BinRat55 (31 Jul 2008)

Actually, even though the cadet's uniforms differ GREATLY from ours, the CIC's (cadet instructors) do not. They wear exactly what we reg and res wear. Also, to the poster who mentioned that the flashes had "cadet" on them - some do, some don't. Depends on the unit, corps or sqn.


----------



## midget-boyd91 (31 Jul 2008)

I'll just point this out.



			
				gwp said:
			
		

> The poster who said because you are young ... has it nailed.
> 
> For example:
> Right now there are 70 candidates on the Raven Aboriginal *Youth* Employment Program.  Of the 70, less than a dozen are over 19.  The average age is 17.



With _'youth'_ being in the name of the program, I wouldn't expect a great deal to be over 19.  

Midget


----------



## gwp (31 Jul 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Actually, even though the cadet's uniforms differ GREATLY from ours, the CIC's (cadet instructors) do not. They wear exactly what we reg and res wear.


That is because the the CIC is a branch of the Canadian Forces and a sub-component of the CF Reserve.  Its members are commissioned officers of the Canadian Forces with the same responsibility and direction from the sovereign to do their duty (within their area of employment) as any other member of the CF. 

The Cadet Instructor Cadre is the largest officer occupation in the Canadian Forces and will celebrate its centennial in 2009.  It is the corps of CF personnel that deliveres and supervises the cadet program in Canada as directed by the National Defence Act.  



> Also, to the poster who mentioned that the flashes had "cadet" on them - some do, some don't. Depends on the unit, corps or sqn.


Army Cadets wear a large patch with a maple leaf that says RCAC.
The Air and Sea Cadet Shoulder Flash both say Royal Canadian xxx Cadets.
It's no different than expecting individuals to know the difference between the PPCLI and the Medical Branch. People just don't pay attention to the detail.


----------



## George Wallace (31 Jul 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> That is because the the CIC is a branch of the Canadian Forces and a sub-component of the CF Reserve.  Its members are commissioned officers of the Canadian Forces with the same responsibility and direction from the sovereign to do their duty (within their area of employment) as any other member of the CF.



Not to start this up again, but it is a problem caused by the lack of "Dress and Deportment" of some individuals, to include haircuts and shaving, not just the way they wear a uniform, that has created many of the problems that this topic is addressing.


----------



## Danjanou (31 Jul 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Can we correct the title now?
> 
> Not "diffenrce"; but "difference".



your wish is my command  :-*


----------



## gwp (31 Jul 2008)

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> I'll just point this out.
> With _'youth'_ being in the name of the program, I wouldn't expect a great deal to be over 19.
> Midget



Definition - Youth - persons aged 16 to 29 (for many programs and opportunities such as scholarships, employment, training etc.)

Throughout the world, the definition is variable and is dependant on location. In Canada, after age 24, youth are no longer eligible for adolescent social services


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (31 Jul 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> That is because the the CIC is a branch of the Canadian Forces and a sub-component of the CF Reserve.  Its members are commissioned officers of the Canadian Forces with the same responsibility and direction from the sovereign to do their duty (within their area of employment) as any other member of the CF.
> 
> The Cadet Instructor Cadre is the largest officer occupation in the Canadian Forces and will celebrate its centennial in 2009.  It is the corps of CF personnel that deliveres and supervises the cadet program in Canada as directed by the National Defence Act.
> Army Cadets wear a large patch with a maple leaf that says RCAC.
> ...



Should civillians be expected to really know that much of a difference though?  Just gently correct them and move on.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (31 Jul 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> Definition - Youth - persons aged 16 to 29



From what source is THAT definition... :


----------



## AlphaQup (31 Jul 2008)

General said:
			
		

> Ok
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Royal_Canadian_Air_Cadets_marching.jpg
> http://multimedia.simcoe.com/images/d3/8c/05640a9a44be8e735a8208ec3bb5.jpeg
> ...


Thanks.


----------



## gwp (31 Jul 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> From what source is THAT definition... :


The Canadian Government
http://youth.gc.ca/yoaux.jsp?&lang=en&flash=1&ta=1&auxpageid=708


----------



## Eye In The Sky (31 Jul 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> The Canadian Government
> http://youth.gc.ca/yoaux.jsp?&lang=en&flash=1&ta=1&auxpageid=708



IMO, that is a stretch and I would say that perhaps this site is more representative of what is considered youth in Canada, legally and otherwise.  Definitions are taken from ref's site:

*"child"* means a person who is or, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, appears to be less than twelve years old. 

*"young person"* means a person who is or, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, appears to be twelve years old or older, but less than eighteen years old 

*"adult"* means a person who is neither a young person nor a child. 

And, from this non-government website:

Definition: The age of majority in Canada is the age at which a person is considered by law to be an adult. A person younger than the age of majority is considered a "minor child." 
The age of majority in Canada is determined by each province and territory in Canada. 

The age of majority in the individual provinces and territories of Canada is 

Alberta - 18 
British Columbia - 19 
Manitoba - 18 
New Brunswick - 19 
Newfoundland and Labrador - 19 
Northwest Territories - 19 
Nova Scotia - 19 
Nunavut - 19 
Ontario - 18 
Prince Edward Island - 18 
Quebec - 18 
Saksatchewan - 18 
Yukon Territory - 19 


Now, are you _really_ going to argue that a person who can legally vote in a federal election in this country is legally considered a youth?   :


----------



## gwp (31 Jul 2008)

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> Thanks.


There are an equal number of pictures of cadets looking as professional as any other uniformed body.  

Has anyone seen the Sea Cadets do Ceremony of the Flags? 

http://www.cadets.net/pac/quadra/2007/photo__CofF2007_e.asp

Or do Freedom of the City

http://www.canada.com/comoxvalleyecho/news/story.html?id=9ad4e2c7-9f96-449c-907b-1bc2b7791bad


----------



## gwp (6 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Not to start this up again, but it is a problem caused by the lack of "Dress and Deportment" of some individuals, to include haircuts and shaving, not just the way they wear a uniform, that has created many of the problems that this topic is addressing.


It is pretty hard to tell a slovenly RegF or PRes member from a properly turned out member of the CIC.


----------



## George Wallace (6 Aug 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> It is pretty hard to tell a slovenly RegF or PRes member from a properly turned out member of the CIC.



Is there such an animal?  I thought it was a myth/urban legend.   ;D


----------



## medaid (6 Aug 2008)

I haven't met that many properly turned out CIC officers. I kid you not. The ones that I have seen that are quite nicely turned out, also turned out to be ex RegF or PRes members, with the minority as CIC direct entries.


----------



## George Wallace (6 Aug 2008)

Some old habits are hard to break.


----------



## gwp (6 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Is there such an animal?  I thought it was a myth/urban legend.   ;D


Yes, you can see those solvenly ones every day on bases and in armouries and divisions across this country.  But the RSMs and CPOS will hunt them down, let the well turned out go and square off the others.  It's an equal opportunity military when it comes to solvenliness.


----------



## gwp (6 Aug 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I haven't met that many properly turned out CIC officers. I kid you not. The ones that I have seen that are quite nicely turned out, also turned out to be ex RegF or PRes members, with the minority as CIC direct entries.


Well, then take the time to square them off in a friendly manner.  You are a member of the CF, they are a member of the CF .. dress regs apply equally.  Any one regardless of the component of the CF putting on the suit -- better look the part and all have an equal stake in looking after and representing the institution.   That applies to Honouraries as well ... a significant number of whom are less than direct entries.


----------



## medaid (6 Aug 2008)

I do, but it's kind of tough no matter how politely to tell a Maj or even a Lt that they look like... Crap.


----------



## George Wallace (6 Aug 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I do, but it's kind of tough no matter how politely to tell a Maj or even a Lt that they look like... Crap.



Or to get a haircut, or sometimes to shave.  Even if of equal rank, some don't listen, or worse tell you where to go.  Now that is some of what I have memories of.  Has it biased me?  Of course.  Do all fall into the same boat?  Of course not, but it is the "one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel" syndrome.


----------



## gwp (6 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Or to get a haircut, or sometimes to shave.  Even if of equal rank, some don't listen, or worse tell you where to go.  Now that is some of what I have memories of.  Has it biased me?  Of course.  Do all fall into the same boat?  Of course not, but it is the "one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel" syndrome.


Yup, that slovenly RegF or PRes member does make the well turned out colleague of the CF CIC look bad. Particularly when they won't listen ... to anyone.


----------



## George Wallace (6 Aug 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> Yup, that slovenly RegF or PRes member does make the well turned out colleague of the CF CIC look bad. Particularly when they won't listen ... to anyone.



Glad you have a sense of humour. ...... or I'd call you an


----------



## medaid (6 Aug 2008)

I suck... and I lack a sense of humor. Sorry folks.


----------



## Michael OLeary (6 Aug 2008)

Before this thread goes any further, I will advise all posters to keep appropriate tone in mind when posting.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Eye In The Sky (6 Aug 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> But you are not from my officer corps, and you are not my equal.



Ouch.


----------



## gwp (7 Aug 2008)

> Quote from: MedTech on Today at 22:12:44
> But you are not from my officer corps, and you are not my equal.


Sorry to disapoint, but all officers in the Canadian Forces are equal.  

The commissioning scroll says nothing about regiment, branch, terms of reference, or job discription.  It is not a qualification, it is not a graduation certificate.  It is an understanding that you can be trusted to carry out the direction of the soverign to look after people up and down the chain of command and do your duty.  Duty has nothing to do with TOR or affiliation.  It has to do with doing the right thing.  

That direction is the same whether you are a band officer, a medical officer, infanteer, armoured, mars officer, mareng, pilot, padre, or personnel officer .. RegF, PRes, CIC, SupRes .. makes no difference.  All occupations are to be valued. 

If you have difficulty with this line of presentation, take it up with the General and Flag Officers who use similar words upon presenting commissioning scrolls to a body of troops representing a variety of different branches.


----------



## MedTechStudent (7 Aug 2008)

greenjacket said:
			
		

> i know for one that i'm enoyed that some people don't understand the difference between the Army Reserves.



[backontrackthreadsteering]

Thats a shame if it really bothers you that much.  I'm sure people of various martial arts get annoyed when others mistake their field for something else.  All their "Gi"s look the same to me as well.  Although I've been told by my diehard martial arts buddies that there are "obvious differences". 

Can't get annoyed at stuff like that, there are lots of other more pressing things to be annoyed with.  Like mosquitos.

Cheers, Kyle

[/backontrackthreadsteering]


----------



## medaid (7 Aug 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> Sorry to disapoint, but all officers in the Canadian Forces are equal.
> 
> The commissioning scroll says nothing about regiment, branch, terms of reference, or job discription.  It is not a qualification, it is not a graduation certificate.  It is an understanding that you can be trusted to carry out the direction of the soverign to look after people up and down the chain of command and do your duty.  Duty has nothing to do with TOR or affiliation.  It has to do with doing the right thing.
> 
> ...




It's not a disappointment. I know that. Regardless, I have sent you a PM and look forward to chatting with you on the subject at hand. 

Cheers!


----------



## Neill McKay (7 Aug 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I haven't met that many properly turned out CIC officers. I kid you not. The ones that I have seen that are quite nicely turned out, also turned out to be ex RegF or PRes members, with the minority as CIC direct entries.



In a Branch of more than 7000, I suspect that haven't met that many CIC officers of any description, relatively speaking.  Even if you'd met 200 CIC officers, that's less than 3 per cent of the Branch.

How could you tell which ones had former service in the regular force or P. Res?  It's sometimes obvious by medals (e.g. anyone with a SWASM or such has almost certainly been in another component than the CIC), but otherwise there isn't likely to be an obvious distinction.  Unless you assume that the slobs are the ones with no prior service and the sharp-looking ones are the ones with... but in that case you're begging the question (or making a circular argument).


----------



## BinRat55 (7 Aug 2008)

I usually ask. I have the opportunity to deal directly with many, many CIC officers, as I am a volunteer with my son's corp. I do pretty much everything with the corps and it brings me in contact with officers from lots of the other corps, sqns and units. I will always correct dress and deportment -- within our own corps (cadets and officers) and all others I come in contact with - properly and politely. We must remember, our CIC officers are still commissioned officers. Some (more than others) may not have had as much training so it's my duty to see that they are taught. Properly and politely. There is a time and a place for everything and if you do it right it can be quite effective. I once witness a young 2Lt in DEU. Her own concoction of DEU, anyway -- sneakers, a civi pattern white shirt and no head dress. I confronted this abomination AWAY from any cadet and WITH her CO. There was no excuse other than "all the pieces didn't fit!!" I asked the CO if the LT could be excused to change into appropriate civilian attire. She was. I took her name, S/N and corps and when I got back to base, I ordered her new "parts".

Time and place, politeness and professionalism. My old 2 RCR RSM used to say "Dress and deportment is everyone's job - discipline is mine!!"


----------



## Neill McKay (7 Aug 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> I once witness a young 2Lt in DEU. Her own concoction of DEU, anyway -- sneakers, a civi pattern white shirt and no head dress. I confronted this abomination AWAY from any cadet and WITH her CO. There was no excuse other than "all the pieces didn't fit!!" I asked the CO if the LT could be excused to change into appropriate civilian attire. She was. I took her name, S/N and corps and when I got back to base, I ordered her new "parts".



It's good that you were in a position to do something.

What parts of her uniform WAS she wearing?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (7 Aug 2008)

Sounds like maybe only the tunic and pants to me.


----------



## PMedMoe (7 Aug 2008)

Maybe it was Mufti parade.


----------



## gwp (7 Aug 2008)

To get this topic back on track.
Find the cadets, find the RegF members, find the reservists.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (7 Aug 2008)

From the use of silver (white) insignia on the epaulets of the blue flying suits, I would surmise that all in the upper photo are Air Cadets.  The one individual wearing an Air Cadet Pilot Badge also has silver rank insignia so he is probably not CIC (rank insignia would be gold).  There are a few whose shoulders are not visible or have no insignia there.  If the 'no insignia' pers are not cadets, but in the CF (CIC) , their dress is incorrect.  The two young men in the bottom photo are both in the Canadian Forces; it doesn't matter whether they are regular or reserve, they both are incorrect in their dress.


----------



## Snakedoc (8 Aug 2008)

Agree with Blackadder1916, top picture are air cadets judging from epaulettes, and bottom are either reg force or reserve (but not in proper uniform judging by missing badges and identifiers).

I agree that it would be difficult for the public, and many members of the CF, to differentiate in this case for the two pictures.  However,I'd say that most of the time as a whole, it is quite apparent at the cadet LHQ level due to the clear age/generational difference of having largely 12 to 15 year olds  (and fewer 16-18 yr old cadet NCMs) compared to the average older age of CF members.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (8 Aug 2008)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> Agree with Blackadder1916, top picture are air cadets judging from epaulettes, and bottom are either reg force or reserve (*but not in proper uniform judging by missing badges* and identifiers).



They're not missing any 'badges'.  A young soldier attending basic training (as I suspect these guys are) would only wear the 'cornflake', and would not be wearing collar dogs, other regimental/branch or command insignia.


----------



## BinRat55 (8 Aug 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Maybe it was Mufti parade.



 :rofl:   He said "Mufti"...


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Aug 2008)

I just read this whole thread..................................can someone tell me WTF its about? :

For the rest of the site......carry on.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Aug 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I just read this whole thread..................................can someone tell me WTF its about? :
> 
> For the rest of the site......carry on.



Somone in the PRes was thought to be a Cadet by a civilian.  He was not happy.

That is all


----------



## NL_engineer (8 Aug 2008)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> From the use of silver (white) insignia on the epaulets of the blue flying suits, I would surmise that all in the upper photo are Air Cadets.  The one individual wearing an Air Cadet Pilot Badge also has silver rank insignia so he is probably not CIC (rank insignia would be gold).  There are a few whose shoulders are not visible or have no insignia there.  If the 'no insignia' pers are not cadets, but in the CF (CIC) , their dress is incorrect.  The two young men in the bottom photo are both in the Canadian Forces; it doesn't matter whether they are regular or reserve, they both are incorrect in their dress.



They are correctly dressed, as it looks like they are on a basic/sq course.


----------



## Adamant (8 Aug 2008)

(Steps out of lane slightly)

Land force dress isn't my strong suit, but I think by missing their name-tags (as appears to be the case) they are out of dress.

Thats my guess.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Aug 2008)

Adamant said:
			
		

> (Steps out of lane slightly)
> 
> Land force dress isn't my strong suit, but I think by missing their name-tags (as appears to be the case) they are out of dress.
> 
> Thats my guess.



...which they hadn't likely received yet from the Garrison Supply Coy at CFLRS that belongs to 5 GSS...not their fault...


----------



## Adamant (8 Aug 2008)

Week 4 (as they have their cornflake) and still no name-tag?

Well i guess, I have to remember it is St Jean...


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Aug 2008)

Adamant said:
			
		

> Week 4 (as they have their cornflake) and still no name-tag?
> 
> Well i guess, I have to remember it is St Jean...



or only some people got them and to adhere to uniformity no one is wearing it...or think of any other reason...


----------



## MedTechStudent (8 Aug 2008)

Adamant said:
			
		

> Week 4 (as they have their cornflake) and still no name-tag?
> 
> Well i guess, I have to remember it is St Jean...



Was there not another thread somewhere here saying that that cap badges are issues sooner than week 4 now anyways?  Seam to remember that.   ???


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Aug 2008)

Not sure.

I like how it used to be...pass the Week 4 saluting/rank test, get cornflake. (which everyone passed as you just cycled thru until you sorted yourself out)


----------



## MedTechStudent (8 Aug 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Not sure.
> 
> I like how it used to be...pass the Week 4 saluting/rank test, get cornflake. (which everyone passed as you just cycled thru until you sorted yourself out)



Well I start this Sunday I'l let ya know.  Don't really know how they could make that any easier though.  Saluting on the march and remembering the Ranks (minus the bloody complicated Navy ones  ;D) is not that bad IMO.

Cheers! Kyle


----------



## gwp (8 Aug 2008)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> From the use of silver (white) insignia on the epaulets of the blue flying suits, I would surmise that all in the upper photo are Air Cadets.


Yes, they are all air cadets in the hero picture beside the CF-18. They are taking power pilot training. 



			
				Blackadder1996]The two young men in the bottom photo are both in the Canadian Forces
[/quote]

Yes said:
			
		

> I agree that it would be difficult for the public, and many members of the CF, to differentiate in this case for the two pictures.  However,I'd say that most of the time as a whole, it is quite apparent at the cadet LHQ level due to the clear age/generational difference of having largely 12 to 15 year olds  (and fewer 16-18 yr old cadet NCMs) compared to the average older age of CF members.



The demographics of the cadet program reveal that 30% of cadets are 16 to 18. Add the 15 year olds and you have 50% of the 55,000 cadets are 15+ years of age. 

So to come full circle.  Many civilians can't tell the cadet program from the CF ... because they can't.  *Get over it.  * 
Cadets get annoyed when they are asked by civilians if they enjoy being in the forces.   

And because it begs the question. 
The Cadet Program is not a recruiting device for the Canadian Forces.  There are no statistics as to how many former cadets join the CF.  The single aim of the program is to "Develop in youth the attributes of good citizenship, and leadership, promote physical fitness and stimulate the interest of youth in the sea, land and air *activities * of the CF."  That is something that every Canadian should aspire to.  It doesn't mean you are going to enrol.  

Anecdotally, there is a notion based on no solid statistics that 10% of cadets join the uniformed professions - police, fire, ambulance, coast guard ... what every number join the CF is tiny.  What does having been a former cadet mean - 7 weeks or 7 years? It's irrelevant.


----------



## Blindspot (8 Aug 2008)

gwp said:
			
		

> Cadets get annoyed when they are asked by civilians if they enjoy being in the forces.



Really? You mean they're annoyed because they have to _explain_ they're actually cadets.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Aug 2008)

I sure do hope all of finally catch your tails,.....I'm gettin' dizzy.

If no one has anything of real significance too add then..............................


----------



## Jarnhamar (8 Aug 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Somone in the PRes was thought to be a Cadet by a civilian.  He was not happy.
> 
> That is all



And that someone should get over it, too


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Aug 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> And that someone should get over it, too



I was at the SuperStore this week after work in CADPAT and a blue beret...a young boy saw me and said "look Mommy...a soldier!".

I waved at him, smiled and made my way to the canned meats section.

I wasn't upset that he didn't know, or his mother, that technically I am an Airmen. 

 8)


----------



## Fishbone Jones (8 Aug 2008)

This topic has been festering in the bowl for way too long. Time to push the handle.







Milnet.ca Staff


----------

