# Marks / Grades: School / GED or PLAR [MERGED]



## SteelMag

Hey, i just found these boards and i can say i am getting quite a bit more info than at the official CAF page (they dont ever email anyone back do they?).  

But, i have a few questions for you.

One, i quit High School in Grade 12.  I however have all the necessary credits to be considered above the grade 10 minimum that the army requires.  I am wondering how likely it is to be accepted without a High School Diploma?  

BTW, i am interested in Infantry.  And i was looking into being an MP but im not sure what i need to go into that area of the military.

Also, how would i best let the army know that i want to join.  Do i just phone them and say "hey, id like to sign up", or what.  What kind of questions do they ask you on the phone in the initial call?.

Sorry for sounding like a Noob.  I just need to know how to go about joining up. I dont want to screw up anything.

Thanks in advance
!S!


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## stukirkpatrick

You could get some answers to questions by sending a feedback message to the recruiting site, and the recruiter nearest to you will respond as quick as they can.  

Or you can call them to set up an appointment, where they can give you more info as well as answering specific questions/concerns you may have.  

Then they will give you the paperwork you need to fill out for the first step.


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## K. Ash

apply here 


This is what I did, about a week later I received an application.


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## Michael OLeary

Many of your questions may have been covered in previous threads, You can search the Recruiting Forum or all the forums by starting with the "search" link in the upper right of the page.

For the particular issues you have raised, you may find these threads helpful:

For Regular Force MP educational requirements:
    http://army.ca/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/379    

Joining the infantry:
    http://army.ca/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/570   
    http://army.ca/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/527   

Try searching the various forums or all the open forums for the keywords you have interests in, you‘ll find a wealth of information to help you better understand the career you are choosing.

Good luck.


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## SteelMag

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry for asking questions that have already been asked before.

I have Applyed at the sight.....hopefully i get some mail soon!


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## robbie__hogger

Instead of doing all that seeing as you only just live in Orillia. If at all possible go down to 4900 Younge Street and go and apply right there and then. They will give you a package to fill out and then give it to them. If you go there then you can watch the movies about Basic and Battle school. The number is 416-635-4490 Just call and set up an appointment to go down there. It will make everything more clear to you.


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## nyture

well i am 16 and i hate school so much but i got a passion for the army..i will have my grade 10 this next summer ...thats all i need to join the army right?and i wanna be and infantry soldier so help me out..


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## D-n-A

Um.. Do you want to join reserve or reg force? I‘m gonna assume you wanna drop out of high school and go reg force.

Don‘t drop out of school, your regret it later.

Also, to join the reg force, you have to be 17 with grade 10. To join the reserve you can be 16 with grade 10.

Also, you need parental/legal guardian consent if you want to join the CF if your under 18, for both reserve and reg force.


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## nyture

well next year willl be my third year doing grade 10 i am sick of it so after i get my grade 10 i wanna join reguler forc and i will be 17 by this time


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## D-n-A

Do you want to join the army because you don‘t want to do school/class work anymore? Even in the infantry you do classroom stuff and write tests.


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## nyture

nah i wanna join cause it‘s what i wanna do and i dunno school jus i wanna join the reg forces bad,,they will accpet if i have grade 10 right?


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## nyture

whats it gonna be like when i do the written and physical test?


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## D-n-A

Can you please start posting with some better grammar and spelling please.

Yes, you can enlist if you are 17 and have grade 10 into the Infantry as far as I know. Aslong as you score the combat arms standards on your tests.

As for what the tests are like, do a search in the recruiting forum.


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## scm77

albert is in almost the EXACT same situation I‘m in.  School blows, I‘m stuck trying to finish grade 10 so I can get in.  

However I do know that highschool diploma is an important thing to get and my army career could end as soon as it begins so I‘m still gonna try to finish highschool through nightschool or something like that.

Has anyone here finished their last bit of highschool while in the regular force?


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## Harrier101

I'll go on the assumption that this thread is serious. DON'T QUIT SCHOOL. You will regret it later in life. What if you join the army, and a year in, you break your leg. Ummm, they may stick you on a desk until you get better. You gonna think that blows? Get serious and listen to a few people here when they say, don't quit school. Also, it shows allot on your ability to become a Canadian Forces Soldier when a situation sucks, you just want to quit. You gonna quit when you have not slept in 3 days or had a warm meal, and a change of undies and you are soaked to the bone? 

Stay in school and get you grade 12, if you want a taste of Army life, join the Reserves for now, and then join Reg Force when school is done. Thats my 2 cents.


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## scm77

Harrier 101 makes some good points, but consider this.  If you decide to quit school after grade 10 and then your career is somehow ended prematurely (injury etc.) you could always finish highschool then.  If you truly cant stand school (just like me) and the army is what you want I say go for it.  I know I will be. :mg:


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## Benoit

Guys believe me quiting school is not the way to go. Especially if you are considering joing the CF. For instance there are a few things you should think about before making this decision. 1) You get hurt and cannot continue with training.  2) You go in for your interview and the captain says to you"if you cannot handle highschool there is no way you will last in the army" ( I know for a fact this will be said to you) 3) what if you dont like what your doing?.....please guys make a rational decision, try the Pres first  and try to finish high school  before you do anything you will regret. Theres my 2 cents


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## Ender57

Just to add on to what everyone else has said already, don't quit school no matter how much you hate it. It's easier getting it over with now than five to ten years down the road. Also even though the requirements for the Canadian Armed Forces ask for a grade 10 education, it's only a minimum requirement. Most people who apply for the military have a grade 12 education and the military takes the best that they can. So if you and another person are applying for the last open position and the other person has a grade 12 education then they will 9 times out of ten take the other person. I know this may sound a bit harsh, but its only another 2 years. Apply with the reserves and see if you even like military life and if you do when you nearing the end of your grade 12 year but in for a transfer to the regular forces. It may seem like a long time but it's worth the wait.


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## G3RM

It says you need to have completed grade 10 or grade 10 III in Quebec or somthing. I have graduated from highschool last friday, but when I was living Alberta I failed Science 10 and Math 10... When I moved to British Columbia I never completed science 10 or math 10 just went on to math and science 11. I'm kind of wondering will I need to re-do these courses or what? Anyone know?


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## stukirkpatrick

I believe that as long as you have graduated High School and got a diploma, you shouldn't worry about it.  However, if you are going into a trade with a strong emphasis on math and science, and you missed important concepts, then you should look into some sort of program (ie night school) to compensate.  

A basic grasp of either will get you through basic training, trust me.


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## scm77

That should be fine.


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## Jhay

What is the army's view on those of us who were homeschooled...do they still consider this to be sufficient?


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## Tracker

Call the Recruiting centre and ask them, they have the most up to date info.


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## Ender57

It shouldn't matter if your were homeschooled as long as you meet the minimum educational requirements. With that said the more education that you have the better. Especially if it is related to the trade that you want to go into.


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## Tracker

Home schooling can be a problem unless you wrote some sort of provincial exam to ensure that your education meets the provincial standard.


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## G3RM

I would think homeschooling would be better. From my friends experience they seem to say it's alot harder than normal schooling. Like what tracker and the others said if you got proof it shouldn't problem I guess.


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## soon to be infantry

I  have read posts in the past regarding the issue of home schooling, I seem to remember it being a problem just for the reason that provincial exams had not been taken and transcripts were not available. You would really have to talk to a  recruiter regarding this issue.  I would guess that as long as you had some kind of provincial transcript, providing courses, grades and so on, you would be ok as long as it was a recognised institution.


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## PnZGhost

Hey guys, just wondering how many of you have joined with your grade 12 equivilancy.  Im 22 now, and have had my GED since Aug of this year, but havent attended highschool since grade 10 (which I didn't complete).  The recruiters have told me that a GED is good enough to get in, I was just curious if any of you have already gone through this.  
Thanks again!


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## BLACKBERRY

My advice to you is to get your grade twelve. Take english, math, and chem twelve along with whatever else you need.


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## humint

A GED is good enough to join (i.e. it meets the requirements). 

I have spoken to many folks in the CF, both ResF and RegF, who just did their GED or went back for night school to complete their diploma while in the CF, and they have no complaints. That said, you have a lot of options. You may also want to attend college while in the CF in order to improve your job marketability and career options. 

However, make sure you prepare for the aptitude test, as this will make or break you with regards to getting in.


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## PnZGhost

Im currently enrolled in Algonquin college in Ottawa.  My big plan  for January was to take the Police foundations (2 year course) program, and try and get into the Vancouver police department.  After many restless nights, i've decided that i'd rather join the forces.  The Pay scale is similar,  but I think the forces would be a more enjoyable experience.  I can always try out for a police force later, if I find the army to be less then what I expect.


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## 42PF

PnZGhost said:
			
		

> Im currently enrolled in Algonquin college in Ottawa.   My big plan   for January was to take the Police foundations (2 year course) program, and try and get into the Vancouver police department.   After many restless nights, i've decided that i'd rather join the forces.   The Pay scale is similar,   but I think the forces would be a more enjoyable experience.   I can always try out for a police force later, if I find the army to be less then what I expect.



http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting/salary_e.htm   $39,535: 0 to six months (or until completion of the field training program) 

$51,367: upon completion of field training program up until two years 

$60,099: next 12 months 

$64,059: after three years

http://www.gov.on.ca/opp/recruit/english/salary.htm

0 â â€œ 12 months	$ 35,666.00
Constable	12 â â€œ 18 months	$ 46,839.00
 	18 â â€œ 24 months	$ 53,533.00
 	24 â â€œ 36 months	$ 59,556.00
 	36 months to 7 years	$ 66,912.00



Plus all the overtime= 

 ;D


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## bossdog

When I joined the RegF in '96 I only had 16 high school credit (only 15 were required). When I got back in in 2002, I had a GED but ti was not required.


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## scm77

Do you need  8 Gr.9 credits and 8 Grade 10 credits, or just 16 total credits? say 8 Gr.9, 7 Gr.10 and 1 Grade 11.

Hopefully you understand what I'm saying.


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## bossdog

16 high school credits (that usually means gr10)


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## bossdog

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/nr/96.09/gedbcgr1.html


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## *CDN*StalkingRicco

Hi am 15 turning 16 in january i was wondering do you need to have 5 credits to join or be taking 5 credits i am very confused lol 
oh and i am only 5'4 125 pounds but in very good physical condition do you think that will affect how i do in the reserves.


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## hiv

*CDN*StalkingRicco said:
			
		

> Hi am 15 turning 16 in january i was wondering do you need to have 5 credits to join or be taking 5 credits i am very confused lol
> oh and i am only 5'4 125 pounds but in very good physical condition do you think that will affect how i do in the reserves.



Do you mean 5 high school credits? As far as I'm aware you need a grade 10 education to join the military.

You should be fine physically. All you need to do is to be able to keep up.


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## Tracker

Credits vary from Province to Province, the rule of thumb is the completion of grade 10.  You must be 16 before you can apply for ROTP or the Reserves.  Call 1-800-856-8488 to be sure.


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## *CDN*StalkingRicco

hey thanx for the info


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## D.Bellamy

Well at the momment im trying to join the 56th Fld Regt, the recuiter said to bring him a copy of my high-school transcript. So I went to get it. However I only have 4 Credits. If im correct the requirement is 15. 

What I want to know is there a way to join the Army without the credits but get into something so I can earn my credits while im in the Armed Forces? I was dumb back then and never handed anything in so now im paying for it down the road.

Anyone have any tips?


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## Tracker

What grade have you completed and in which Province?


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## SGT Martin

Hey guys i am wondering if you can actually take classes when you get in the army? like night classes or something because I am 17 and i failed a grade so I have to finish grade 10 this year and I would like to graduate but I would rather joint he army...But if i could do both that would be aweosme.


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## SHELLDRAKE!!

If you are referring to Regular forces, im pretty sure the recruiter wont touch you until you complete grade ten but once you are in, the military will reimburse any money you spend on correspondance fees to upgrade your education.Also when you are posted to your first base after training, there are plenty of local resources offered including night school, french language training etc. that are available to you.


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## scm77

Some highschools have a Militia program where you go live on a base for a full semester.  You do military stuff and school stuff I think.  I believe you earn six credits.  I don't know much about it so your better to check with a teacher/guidance.


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## bigwig

In order to do a co-op program with the army you usually have to be in either grade 11 or 12. Since you haven't completed grade 9 yet there isn't a way you can earn credits with the military at this point in time, you must earn your grade 9 and 10 compulsory credits first.


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## CurtisWoodworth

I actually e-mailed a local recruiter about this last week (I'm also 15 and turning 16 on January) and this is part of his response.

"The minimum requirement is age 16 WITH 6 credits of Grade 10 completed and be a Canadian Citizen."

He's talking about recruitment for the reserves. I'm in British Columbia.


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## D-n-A

CurtisWoodworth said:
			
		

> I actually e-mailed a local recruiter about this last week (I'm also 15 and turning 16 on January) and this is part of his response.
> 
> "The minimum requirement is age 16 WITH 6 credits of Grade 10 completed and be a Canadian Citizen."
> 
> He's talking about recruitment for the reserves. I'm in British Columbia.



Its the same for the Reg Force also, only you need to be 17(with consent)


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## Butters

You only need to have completed 6 course in grade 10 (british columbia)....


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## humint

For the COOP program, you can apply if you have less than 15 credits. HOWEVER, you are not permitted to participate in the program unless you have the 15 credits. So, you can apply if you are expecting to have the 15 credits by the time you are actually enrolled in the CF.

Otherwise, you need to get your GED -- General Education Diploma. This may be the best way for you. I would suggest contacting the local board of education to receive more info on getting the GED.


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## scm77

Check out this site for GED info.

http://www.acenet.edu/clll/ged/gedadmin3-TT.cfm


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## JasonH

Butters said:
			
		

> You only need to have completed 6 course in grade 10 (british columbia)....



Found that out the hard way


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## BradM

I finally received my GED. I took it later september and boy that felt good.
If you do not have an opportunity to finish highschool due to exceptional circumstances, the GED will let you get by. I am so very glad I finally got mine, a chapter in my life finally closed.

However I strongly suggest finishing highschool. REGARDLESS of any circumstances. Do whatever it takes to get that last credit you need to get your grade 12. Put on your silly robe, and say you graduated.
It will make a huge difference in your life, more than you can possibly know at age 15 or 16.

Best of luck in your efforts.


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## BradM

Sirukin:
I hear ya. My attendance became an issue in Grade 11. I thought myself too mature to be in highschool. Funny how that works out.
Anyway.. honestly if I could do it over again I would trade all my life experience for 2 more years in school. My life would be so much different right now.

Stay in school kids. There's a reason why everyone says it.


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## scm77

Butters said:
			
		

> You only need to have completed 6 course in grade 10 (british columbia)....



Anyone know what the number is for Ontario?  Or where I could look/who I could ask to find out?


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## patt

scm77 said:
			
		

> Anyone know what the number is for Ontario?   Or where I could look/who I could ask to find out?



to get the OSSC (Ontairo secondary school certificate)(can get this when ya compelete grade 10) 
u need 14 credits but im not sure if thats what ur really talkin about, maybe go to the local high school and talk to them maybe they will you or just find the ontairo school board website


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## scm77

Cool, I'll have that by February.  You just made my day.


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## scm77

Just for the record, I e-mailed the recruiter last night and they said you need minimum of 15 credits to get in.


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## Erik

So I always was told that the age to get in is 16 (I am 15 btw). My buddy comes back from cadets one day and says that a colonol told him to apply while he was 15. I thought this nonsense but if a colonol said this. I asked him if it was one of these cadet colonols but he asid it was the real deal. I just want to know wether or not I should get my hopes up  for being able to apply early.
I just wanna be in the army!  :warstory:


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## D-n-A

To get into the reserve, you have to be atleast 16, with parental consent and have a certain amount of grade 10 credits(if you pass all your grade 10 courses, you got the required school credits).

You can probably pick up a application, but I don't know if the recruiters will do anything with it, they may hold it and than as soon as your of age start processing it/sending it off to the CFRC.


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## Tracker

You cannot apply unless you are 16 and have grade 10 completed.


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## militarygirl88

To join the Reserves you have to be 16 with parental permission, and you have to have 15 high school credits... To be honest I wouldn't get your hopes up of applying early. I would wait until about the week before you turn 16, then go to your local recruitment center, and get the application package, fill it out then bring it back when you are 16.
good luck,
 militarygirl88


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## militarygirl88

you need to have 15 high school credits, to apply to the military... basically grade 10 completed, 
militarygirl 69


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## Brendan.Bridge

Hi everyone - I'm new to this website. I'm 15 years old at the moment and I'm turning 16 March 08. I am debating what I would like to do - Pilot - Ground Infant - Navy. I'm leaning more towards Ground Infantry; What do you guy's think about it? I'm 6'3 and 168 pounds. I will have my grade 10 education very soon so that is not an issue. I just want some other peoples opinions. I was also considering moving to America and joining there armed forces - what do you think?  :warstory:


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## cgyflames01

I'm 15 years old at the moment and I'm turning 16 March 08. I am debating what I would like to do - Pilot - Ground Infant - Navy. 
Until your 18, your going to need your parent's concent for you to enlist, also if you want to be a pilot, your gonna need some post secondary, because thats an officer trade. good luck though!


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## Inch

cgyflames01 said:
			
		

> I'm 15 years old at the moment and I'm turning 16 March 08. I am debating what I would like to do - Pilot - Ground Infant - Navy.
> Until your 18, your going to need your parent's concent for you to enlist, also if you want to be a pilot, your gonna need some post secondary, because thats an officer trade. good luck though!



Correctomundo. Pilot is an officer trade and therefore requires a degree. Even if they open CEOTP again, the minimum is a high school diploma. 

Cheers


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## Ghost

.


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## solidus12

Im in grade ten and its a good thing i checked out this site cause i've been letting my grades slip cause all im focused on is joining the air force and i guess this means i have to start to improve in school and Fitness wise i plan on joining the reserves this summer but is there any training that you can do for the airforce i mean i would still be trained in the basics any way but you see pei dont have a airforce


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## coolboyp10

Alrighty, Im 17 years old, I am a good student, however I am the typ that doess good in class, but doesnt do any homework. So im taking mostly grade 10 classes atm, since I didnt finish my grade 10s, is there a way i can join without having my grade 10? As long as I pass the test?

I plan on joining this year ASAP.


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## coolboyp10

Man, I accidently posted a poll lol.. well just reply.


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## coolboyp10

Another quest I have is, I require 15 credit right, as long as I can 15 credits, doess it matter what classes I take. or doess it have to be certain classes?


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## coolboyp10

I require 15 credits to join, doess it matter what classes I take to get those credits? Or do I need specific classes, (MATH,SCIENCE,ENGLISH) whatever.


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## greener

Finish high school. (I don't think you can get in without grade 10)

Take classes you like.

That's my advice.


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## PteCamp

coolboyp10 said:
			
		

> Another quest I have is, I require 15 credit right, as long as I can 15 credits, doess it matter what classes I take. or doess it have to be certain classes?



As long as you have 15 credits it doesn't really matter which ones as far as I can tell. They never questioned any of my credits. But you do need your grade 10, so just keep working hard.


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## Love793

coolboyp10 said:
			
		

> I require 15 credits to join, doess it matter what classes I take to get those credits? Or do I need specific classes, (MATH,SCIENCE,ENGLISH) whatever.


Always good to have a fall back plan.  Also, a lot of jobs may ruled out if you don't have a basic working knowledge of Eng/Fr (reading, comprehension, communication), Math, and Technical skills.  The CFAT is based on the average Gr 10 or Equiv curriculum.


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## *Grunt

greener said:
			
		

> Finish high school. (I don't think you can get in without grade 10)
> 
> Take classes you like.
> 
> That's my advice.



This is good advice, but not a requirement, as long as you've 15 credits and your 17 and all that other stuff you have to meet your in the green. Take what ever classes you like becuase it doesnt affect anything regarding military, unless its a pre-requiste course to somthing you'd like to excell in the future, although i'm sure you knew that.

Just wondering are you joining as reserve or regular (full or part time)?


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## chrisf

PteKec said:
			
		

> As long as you have 15 credits it doesn't really matter which ones as far as I can tell. They never questioned any of my credits. But you do need your grade 10, so just keep working hard.



Of course, in the long run, joining without a highschool diploma is likely a very bad idea...


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## fleeingjam

Believe or not, the officer that will conduct your interview will mention your schooling-marks, habits, community service etc. So not only should  you have 15 credits you should also be prepared to answer that question if need be ( I know i had one heck of a time doing that  ).


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## cgyflames01

You will be placed on a merit list, and i presume, and high school diploma will get you in faster then someone with only 15 credits. Also, a high school diploma will be a great thing to fall back on, in case anything is to ever happendown the road.


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## CrimsonSeil

7 : 1 =( no young reservists


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## pilot_hopeful

Finish High School.

If you decide to leave the military, then what? you don't have anything.
Finish school, it's only 2 years


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## Mischiefz

lol its 7-1 because of one reason.....when he had first posted the poll it showed up as:
Grade 10
grade 10

one was capatalized other wasnt, I voted at random then the poll was somehow changed.....voting again with what poll is currently at Id say stay in school,grade is becoming, if its not already, the bare minimum in society today. Try and apply for almost any job, even minimum wage jobs ( unless still in school, ie: 15-18 etc ) such as mcpukes etc and they want at least highschool.


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## Love793

As a recruiter, I'd have to say finish school.  You only require to have 15 credits (Prov of Ont), however if you're looking to go Reg force, CFRC is looking for grade 12.  Even the infantry is a competitive trade (not intended as a slight to the "Queens of the battlefield").  The more education you have, the more competitive you'll be.  As a turned around "Young, know everything punk" I would also have to say.  With out a highschool education, you'll get no where on civie street either.  My advice.  complete the 15 credits, join a reserve unit, get some crses and experience, finish highschool (maybe even college) and then go reg if that's your plan.  Always have a back up plan.  The military is not a job for everyone.  Saying that though, if you do feel it's for you, it can be the most rewarding job/career any one can ever have.


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## Sapper24

Heres what you should do, join the reserves when you are 16, and finish school by the time you are done school you should have been in the reserves long enough to see if you want to do that for a career


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## shawnzy

umm yeah i am 16 turning 17 in july  i am going to be done in the year 2006 but i was wondering do i need any special classes to get in or any hig level of grads? I wanted to become a Weapon Tech-land!an i also wanted to know how much does this cousre cost??


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## Michael OLeary

shawnzy said:
			
		

> umm yeah i am 16 turning 17 in july  i am going to be done in the year 2006 but i was wondering do i need any special classes to get in or any hig level of grads? I wanted to become a Weapon Tech-land!an i also wanted to know how much does this cousre cost??



You will find a few threads about the Wpn Tech land trade in the Trades FAQ - http://army.ca/forums/threads/17703.0.html

The Recruiting FAQ covers education requirements and the Recruiting process. Also you may want to review the threads on the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (compare discussion on that topic to the requirements and expectation of the trade you're considering to have a better understanding of where you should focus on doing well in school) - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-77933.html#msg77933

You may also wish to review the Wpn Tech Land info in the CF Recruiting Site, select it from the NCM trade selector at http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/army/jobs_e.aspx

The training won't cost you anything. Once you are enrolled, the Army will be paying you while you train.


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## AndrewD83

Finish high school!  If you get injured or quit or get fired from the army at least secondary school will be available to you to pursue another career.  You never lose with education.


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## scm77

I don't know if this was the website you had but if you click on "High School Path" on the left side, it gives you some recomended(sp?) courses in each year of highschool to join the army.  You can also get recomended courses for all kinds of other careers.

http://www.ilc.org/cfmx/CM/Careers/cm_career.cfm?career_id=605


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## 2Lt_Burgie

_


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Quote,
_ Members who are not educated are not as useful to the Canadian Forces (Res or Reg F)_

A little condensending, no?  I did and I'm doing just fine with my 11 Ontario credits, thank you very much. 
Try thinking outside the box a little and stop equating education with "smarts" because I will take the "smarts" everytime.

....and come to think of it, could you please show me some examples of how you think this statement may be true.


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## 2Lt_Burgie

_


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## Love793

2Lt_Burgie said:
			
		

> My statement was not unintended to offend nor insult anyone who has made the CF a career without completing High School.
> 
> My statement was drawn from the fact that the Reg F currently only accepts Gr. 12, and that it is beneficial for people to finish their High School Diploma.



They accept gr 10.  However to make one self competitive, they advise someone to have grade 12.


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## aesop081

2Lt_Burgie said:
			
		

> My statement was not unintended to offend nor insult anyone who has made the CF a career without completing High School.
> 
> My statement was drawn from the fact that the Reg F currently only accepts Gr. 12, and that it is beneficial for people to finish their High School Diploma.



Your statement, regardless of what you meant is rather insulting.  BTW, in ref to your profile, you are NOT a R081.............you are a R81 ( i look on the dnd web site to be sure)..............if you were a R081 that would make you a reserve airborne electronic sensor operator of which i'm sure you are not.


----------



## 2Lt_Burgie

_


----------



## 2Lt_Burgie

Best thing is to read up on the Recruiting website: recruiting.forces.gc.ca

Eligability requirements are here:
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/eligibility_e.aspx

Also, speak to the recruiter in your area CFRC office.

Good Luck!


----------



## cgyflames01

Some MOC's also dictate that you must take, sertain high school courses. I plan to become a med tech 737, but you require biology 30, and another 30 level science course (Chem, or phys). So now my file is on hold, until may, because, I need to upgrad my chemistry.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

What i think he wants to know is if he failed grade  10 math and is back a year in that course but is still a grade 11 with 15 credits  in other courses can he join, id like to know to. (Sorry if it sounds confusing but its hard to describe.


----------



## scm77

This is something that will/is  effect(ing) me.  I'm actually pretty smart and did quite well up to Gr. 9.  I finished Gr. 9 and started Gr. 10 but had still had no idea what I was going to do after school.  I had no motivation to do good in school and complete the work.  I ended up getting quite bored and fed up with school so I just stopped going.  That's was when I started considering the Army.  

I had always been interested in military stuff. I was out of school, not knowing what to do with myself and I naturally started thinking about the military.  The more info I read (alot from this fine site ) the more I wanted to join up.  Before that all I had heard about the Canadian Army was people making fun of them on tv.  I realised that the Army wasn't a joke and has done and is doing some incredible things for people around the world, and I want to be are part of it.  I found out that I needed atleast Gr. 10 to join.  So through a combination of night school, summer school and correspondence courses I only need two more credits to finish Gr. 10.

I probably will end up joining without graduating highschool.  Graduating highschool or getting the GED is something I would like to do later on.  Even if I make an entire career out of the Army it's still something I'd like to have in order to fall back or just to be a good example for any kids I may have.

Someone mentioned that recruiters are looking for highschool even for infantry (the trade I hope to get into).  Hopefully a good score on the CFAT (like I said above I'm actually pretty smart) and them seeing that regular school wasn't my thing but I was still determined and worked hard to finish atleast Gr.10 when other people would've just dropped out completely will make up for that.  Hopefully


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

Why dont you just finish highschool? Why does everyone think they need to join at 18 or as soon as possible or their chance is wasted?


----------



## Armageddon

Honestly, finishing your highschool is the best thing you can do for yourself right now.  The military will still be here in 2years and if you want in then it leaves you in a lot better position and as was previously stated it leaves you with a backup plan in the event that you decide the military isn't for you.  I know that it is one of the first things a lot of employers will look at before anything else and why would you want to limit your options.


----------



## aesop081

Armageddon said:
			
		

> Honestly, finishing your highschool is the best thing you can do for yourself right now.   The military will still be here in 2years and if you want in then it leaves you in a lot better position and as was previously stated it leaves you with a backup plan in the event that you decide the military isn't for you.   I know that it is one of the first things a lot of employers will look at before anything else and why would you want to limit your options.



Speaking of grades there armagedon...shouldn't you be studying met or radar or something ?


----------



## civvy3840

When I turn 16 I plan to join the reserves until high school is done then transfer to regs. That way there is no comitment so if school and the army is to stressful I can just drop the reserves until i'm done school and I will have some good experience when I go for regs. Maybe you should look into the reserves.


----------



## chriscalow

Here is my story.  I dropped out with 12 credits about 4 years ago.  STUPIDEST thing I ever did.  When the time came that I wanted to apply to the RegF, I went to my old school to see if I could re-enroll for a semester to get the 15 credits.  They told me that since I had been out of school and worked so much that they would give me 3 maturity credits.   

The CFRC said obviously that it is preferred that I had grade 12 and would make me more competitive, but he would accept my application.

In the time it has taken to get in, I have taken several steps to increase my education including correspondence courses, and I am now in the process of setting up my GED exam.  The CFRC was very happy to see this.

One last comment re: schooling vs. smarts.  Amongst the many factory and fast food jobs I have worked at, I have never seen anything to suggest that having a piece of paper called a diploma or degree, makes someone better or smarter.  I have seen university students working at Subway and as temps at the factories, and I have seen dropouts running these places.

These are all my own views and experiences and none are meant to insult or offend anyone, hope it helps.  Cheers!!


----------



## canadianblue

Why would anybody want to drop out of high school in order to get a career in the armed forces. Don't get me wrong, the Canadian Forces does have alot of great jobs, but if a person were to drop out of high school then are'nt they limiting the different oppurtunities they have with the CF. For example their are three jobs which I would really enjoy doing with the Canadian Forces, Firefighting, Military Police, and Infantry. For all of those I want to keep my options open so I'm pursuing an education, while also applying to the reserves. Why not apply to the reserves part time, get and education, or at the least a high school diploma or GED.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

What if you are a grade 11 student that failed a grade ten class but still has more then 15 credits would they accept you or would they say waite till you pass the grade 10 course. A little off topic but does anyone know     if the windsor reserve unit has alot of people trying to get in. Are past jobs a requirment  ? Im only asking because i want to join the reserves first then join reg. but i never had a real job at Mcdonalds , etc.


----------



## chriscalow

USSRsovietsnake said:
			
		

> What if you are a grade 11 student that failed a grade ten class but still has more then 15 credits would they accept you or would they say waite till you pass the grade 10 course. A little off topic but does anyone know if the windsor reserve unit has alot of people trying to get in. What are the odds of getting in i was told 4/10.



Buddy, I just said I only have 12 academic credits + 3 maturity credits.  It's kind of a technicality because half the time they say 15 credits, and the other half the time they say Grade 10.  It's not the honourable way to get in, but it is possible.  I'm glad to say that I'll have my GED before my application goes to selection board.  

FINISH THE SCHOOLING.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

I didnt really understand what you said in the first post but your in the army now? For some reason i think that trying to get into the army is like trying to apply as a brain surgeon ( :. I was told 4/10 people make it in, if you only had 12 credits and the 3 maturity credits and you got in what are the other 6/10 people doing so wrong? Are they mostly the unfit people who just decided one day to try and join with no effort to get fit befor hand?


----------



## Tpr.Orange

Any 15 credits together work.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

OK thanks. How it's worded from requirment sheet to requirment sheet is fairly confusing at times.


----------



## Tpr.Orange

15 high school credits or  high school equivelency


----------



## Love793

USSRsovietsnake said:
			
		

> What if you are a grade 11 student that failed a grade ten class but still has more then 15 credits would they accept you or would they say waite till you pass the grade 10 course. A little off topic but does anyone know        if the windsor reserve unit has alot of people trying to get in. Are past jobs a requirment   ? Im only asking because i want to join the reserves first then join reg. but i never had a real job at Mcdonalds , etc.



15 Academic credits will do.  What unit are you attempting to join. If it comes down to a pinch, we'll merit list people based on there MP score.


----------



## Kat Stevens

What's the relevance here?  Generations of Ruperts have proven that the correlation between education and inteligence is tenuous.  The army is full of people who can calculate the square-root of a jar of pickles, but can't figure out how the lid comes off...IMHO

CHIMO,  Kat


----------



## 1feral1

Stay in school and get your Yr 12, and join the Militia til you're done, then if you like the taste of CF life, then go into the Regular Army.

My advice, take it as you wish.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## B.McTeer

or this is just the approach that Ive taken join the reserves finish school then apply for a transfer to the regular force well thats just me i don't know about anyone Else

regards 
B.McTeer


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

I am going to try and join the reserves in windsor. Any tips on getting accepted, as in get glasses before i go if i seem to need them, or get a real job as in working at Mcdonalds or something like that, waite a year then try to apply again? If you have only worked at a job a short time before applying or havn't had one will they almost always reject you and tell you to find a job and stick with it for 6 months?


----------



## DVessey

Just to continue beating the dead and decaying horse.. Stay in school and get your grade 12. It's another couple of years (I know, two years still seems like a long time even to myself, but look at the big picture) 

Why not get the free education now?


----------



## Tpr.Orange

Id rather have someone with the maturity of a high school graduate. That can understand whats going on and has enough education that they can write a memo, without consulting others several times in regards to spelling and grammar.

I feel that a 16 year old doesn't have the maturity to hold a as important as a reservist or a reg force ncm. Therefore I would love to see the CFRC's bump the age to 18 so we can take highschool graduates. Even if it lowers our recruiting numbers.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

Most of the older student's that attend the school like to party drink and do drug's, Just talking to them you can tell they have nothing at all going for them and i dont want to end up like that. If the recruiters think you are good enough to be accepted in some cases over older people, whats wrong with people in highschool joining. 18 years old today is about the equivalent to a 14 year old on the maturity scale i have noticed so i some what know where you are coming from.


----------



## Kat Stevens

CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> Id rather have someone with the maturity of a high school graduate. That can understand whats going on and has enough education that they can write a memo, without consulting others several times in regards to spelling and grammer.



I'm sure you meant "grammar", didn't you?  By the way, I'll say it again, intelligence and education are irrelevant to each other. So, by the way, are education and maturity.

CHIMO,  Kat


----------



## NCRCrow

I went back to High School (Night School) and finished it up!! 

If you want a technical trade/occupation, and not having Grade 11/12 Math. U will suffer!! TRUST ME!

Like the Forum says, STAY IN SCHOOL!

I was talking to a PDEV Officer and they are seriously considering making everybody have a Grade 12 equivalence as part of the NCM professional progression DP's. (This an idea and not reality as of yet)

like an Officer doing OPME's............


----------



## Tpr.Orange

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> By the way, I'll say it again, intelligence and education are irrelevant to each other. So, by the way, are education and maturity.
> 
> CHIMO,   Kat



How can you say that education doesn't play any part in maturing? Learning is maturing, and bettering one's self. I will agree that in some cases people who haven't gone throught the full high school program have matured quickly, because of the need to grow up fast so a job can be attained to support one's self for example. But I do not at all believe that a grade 10 to 11 student at this current day and age is mature enough to handle all of the responsibilities of being in the CF. (that being said there are exceptions and I 100% will agree that these exceptions to the rule are some of the greatest soldiers to be churned out by any battle school.) But by going to schools every day as a recruiter you begin to notice the difference in maturity between a 16 year old applying and an 18 year old applying. Along with the questions they ask, and the way they percieve the CF.


----------



## Kat Stevens

I'm assuming you're looking at this from a P Res viewpoint. In that regard you are correct; NO 16 year old belongs in a military uniform, he should be cruising the main drag in mom's mini van (pipe down before you start, cadets). However, I maintain that a 4.0 GPA and a degree from Moe's Barber College and Tavern will not produce a better, more mature infanteer, engineer, gunner, or crewman.  In fact, overeducated soldiers are all too fond of having to know "why?".  It is becoming prevalent, even accepted, to question every slightest command, and I for one don't like it.  In case it isn't obvious, BTW,  I am one of those uneducated dropouts who joined the army at 17 (army, not Res).  Return fire if you wish....

CHIMO,  Kat


----------



## B.McTeer

well im a 17 year and im join the reserves do u think that this is to young?


----------



## Kat Stevens

Did you actually READ my last sentence?  What do YOU think my answer is?

CHIMO,  Kat


----------



## Sc011y

For the grade required to join, I think the current situation is fine.  As for maturity, isn't that what the hole application process is for?  I mean if I was a drinking, drug abusing teen (I'm 16) I think the interviewer would have probably picked up on that.  But I also think it depends on the trade you are applying for, as some of the different ones require a more advanced education.  I am just starting in the reserves, but I think i have the maturity to handle it, and to be a contributer for my regiment.


----------



## Nielsen_Noetic

Hello, I'm new here; I'm joining the reserves this summer(Calgary Highlanders) and I would have to say the current system is just right. If you do not give younger people the opportunity to see what the forces really are, they just might join the regulars fresh out of high school and find themselves in something much deeper than they had hypothesised. 'Have a Glimpse and see what you think' that's what my Gramps told me too do before he passed on, and he should know being a career soldier who himself joined at 16.


----------



## kitrad1

Alrighty, Im 17 years old, I am a good student, however I am the typ that doess good in class, but doesnt do any homework. So im taking mostly grade 10 classes atm, since I didnt finish my grade 10s, is there a way i can join without having my grade 10? As long as I pass the test?

I plan on joining this year ASAP.


Sounds like you received a lot of good advice. Stay in school, go Reserve if that is an option. Start researching your occupation choice(s) now, in case there are specific academic requirements. Stay fit, stay out of trouble and stay away from drugs.

Phone or visit your nearest recruiting centre.

Best of luck.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

One last thing, does highschool Co-op education count as job experience.


----------



## ps387

Just a (rhetorical) question...

How many of you asking about minimum educational requirements would settle for being accepted based on meeting the minimum physical standards?

In other words, would you be satisfied at getting out the minimum push-ups, sit-ups, etc. to get in? Or do you push yourself to be better and stronger than the minimum?

Why is education any different? Getting a high school diploma (or GED if the classroom isn't your forte) isn't something you should do to get into the military. It is something you should do for yourself because if things don't work out or the army ends up not being your 'cup of tea'...you are going to be damn glad you finished high school...better yet, college or university.

It's just something to think about...IMHO


----------



## DKendal

OK so I'm in a REALLY unusual situation here.. long story but basically, I've been home-schooled right through from grade 1 until now (currently grade 12) 
What makes this unusual is my parents don't follow the alberta curriculum, they have created their own for myself and my siblings. So here I am, 18 and in "grade 12" and I have no core course credits, the only courses that are actually on my highschool transcript are options, which I did take from an actual school (since my parents couldn't teach phys ed. etc.)
basically, what I'm trying to find out is: does the army require core 10 level courses as a minimum? do I HAVE to have those courses, would they possibly accept a letter of equivalency from my principal?
I'm trying to figure out what to do here, the other requirements for recruitment should not be a problem, I've been doing a lot of reading on this.. I very much want to join within the next year at some point.


----------



## Ennasa

On the CF website it states:

"meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation; 
this can vary from Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec) for combat arms occupations to a university degree for the Direct Entry Officer entry plan."

I guess you would have to see a recruiter to find out exactly what requirements you need for the job you want, and figure out if the schooling you have is seen as an "equivalence" to what you need.


----------



## Blunt Object

I am soon joining the army and I have an important question. I live in Hamilton Ontario and I currently have 16.5 highschool credits. On the application papers I have read that you need 15 credits on I have also read that you need your grade ten. I am currently .5 credits short of my grade ten but I have the 15 credits. will this be good enough to join or do I need the extra .5 credit for my grade ten before i can join?

   Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks


----------



## Rebel_RN

it says that you need to have grade 10, but you can easily double check as to whether or not you have enough by simply going to your nearest Recruiting Center, the  RC will be able to tell you for sure if 15 credits is enough or if the grade 10 issue would have to be resolved.
Good luck


----------



## nawk

My younger brother is in the same situation.  He's in Gr. 10 and will have 16 credits by the end of this school year.  However, he wanted to start the application process earlier so he could do BMQ/SQ during this coming summer.  He was told by the recruiter to get a letter written and signed by those teachers he has currently saying something to the effect of "I am confident that so and so will gain this credit at the end of this school year".  So basically by the time he would hypothetically go on basic this summer he will have the required number of credits.


----------



## Love793

15 Credits


----------



## 903BCDragoons

no you are all wrong i think you dont need credits that way you need 6 completed grade 10 corses. so ya you need 6 credits for completed corses im in the joining prosess right now


----------



## kincanucks

903BCDragoons said:
			
		

> no you are all wrong i think you dont need credits that way you need 6 completed grade 10 corses. so ya you need 6 credits for completed corses im in the joining prosess right now



Listen DA you live in BC and others live in different provinces so maybe the credits required for Grade 10 might be different?  In Ontario you need 15 and in BC you need 6.


----------



## Lost_52

yea here in ontario it says you need 15 credits now whether you are done grade 10 or not it says u need at least 15 credits so check it out at your local RC but im sure you'll be fine. 
As well DA it says gr. 10 or equivalent so our 15 credits are equivalent to your 6
Good luck with your application 

Cheers


----------



## kincanucks

_yea here in ontario it says you need 15 credits now whether you are done grade 10 or not it says u need at least 15 credits_

Sigh,  In Ontario you need 15 credits which is the minimum to complete Gr 10.


----------



## Island Ryhno

TEA


----------



## Lomi

Did a search with no results even remotely similar to my situation. I was homeschooled from grades 9-12 (looking back I wish I had gone to regular public school), now I understand that normally that should be enough for me to get in, however I was in an alternative homeschooling program called Wondertree which was basically an open learning program funded by the BC federal government and community funding in part. Basically you got an allowance each year to spend on supplies and what not and it was up to your parents to decide what to do with it. My question is this, with having been in such an odd system of academics, will I need to upgrade to be elligible for a position in the CF or can I simply study for the CFAT on my own and still make it in?

Appreciate any help anyone can give, thanks.


----------



## Springroll

Do you have any documentation to say that you "graduated"??

If you do then there should be no problems.


----------



## kincanucks

Lomi said:
			
		

> Did a search with no results even remotely similar to my situation. I was homeschooled from grades 9-12 (looking back I wish I had gone to regular public school), now I understand that normally that should be enough for me to get in, however I was in an alternative homeschooling program called Wondertree which was basically an open learning program funded by the BC federal government and community funding in part. Basically you got an allowance each year to spend on supplies and what not and it was up to your parents to decide what to do with it. My question is this, with having been in such an odd system of academics, will I need to upgrade to be elligible for a position in the CF or can I simply study for the CFAT on my own and still make it in?
> 
> Appreciate any help anyone can give, thanks.



While official proof that you have graduated HS will be sufficient for most trades, if you apply for highly technical trades your home schooling may not meet the higher academic standards.  Go talk to a recruiter and make sure you have a diploma and transcript.


----------



## Alistor

I am very interested in joining the Canadian Forces. I started working before i had a chance to finish Highschool. I am one Credit shy of my high school deploma and i was wondering if that would be a major factor in my enrollment.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## new recruit

I'm really not sure. But I can tell you that I had a friend (like ten or twelve years ago) who joined the reserves while he was in high school. He has since joined the reg force, but he never did graduate high school. Talk to a recruiter. They will know for sure.


----------



## Springroll

You must have a minimum of grade 10 to join.


----------



## kincanucks

_You must have a minimum of grade 10 to join._

For most occupations Gr 10 is sufficeint but other occupations may require a HS diploma and/or certain courses.  Go to the local CFRC/D to discuss your particular situation.


----------



## Infanteer101

Well, just to boost your spirits I have a buddy at RMC who was home-schooled and is currently on his way to becoming a MAR-E officer. Last time I spoke to him he said that as long as you have proof of graduation and or the OAC/Current Curriculum standard equivalency there is no stopping you to join the CF. I will add however that you may have to write a test to determine your competency at the Grade 12 level in case you don't have this proof. Once again further info should be available at your local CFRC. Cheers!


----------



## Springroll

Thank you for elaborating on that for me, kincanucks.  ;D


----------



## Springroll

or cut out all the hassle and go do an equivalency test at your local college. 
That helped me.


----------



## Warvstar

Ok so basically I'm a little rusty with highschool. I completed my grade 11 a couple years back and now I'm trying to get back in to finish grade 12. So the new school is telling me they want me to do grade 10 over again, it will take 3 months. I was wondering if I could get into the enlistment process while I'm at school.


----------



## Tucker.D

To apply you have at least have grade 10. During the other grades you can apply. I applied for Reg force during grade 12 and then after I graduated I went to the recruiting center and updated my file to include that.


----------



## canadianchick

If you want to get your file started, then you can start your papers and interview, physical test, as long as you have a paper signed by your school stating that you are currently doing grade 10 and that from the looks of things you will pass. THIS IS what they let me do anyways but you would have to check it out with your recurting officer.


----------



## George Wallace

I ask myself the question, after talking to some kids on the bus, why many have the idea that they must finish High School before joining the Reserves?   When I was in High School if joined the Reserves and was able to get two summers worth of employment in before going to University.   That was a nice nest egg towards my University Tuition and Fees.   It looks like many are getting the wrong messages while in school as to when they can join the Reserves, probably equating it to the same rules as joining the Regular Force.


----------



## canadianchick

Yes mainly people have asked me why I am trying to get into the Reserves when I am still in high school. Many of my friends did not even know that there was such thing as the Reserves till you were out of school. I myself would not have know but I've always had a fascination with it and right before I turned 16 I saw a sign saying that they were hiring people for the army so I got my dad to pull into the building and we went inside and talked to a recruiter who happened to be there and he told be that you could join while in high school, so we got the papers done up and sent them in just after my birthday ( mind you in a week it will have been one year and I am still not in ) But I think the reason why a lot of people don't join while they are still in school is because they are not aware of it I lived in truro for 16 years and I thought that the armories were a museum intell I saw the hiring sign.


----------



## ambex

Hi everyone. 
Iam wanting to join the Navy and goto RMC but my marks from both grade 12 and my first and only year of college are really bad, think mid 60's.   I lost sight of what I wanted and did some really stupid things, nothing illigal but my marks suffered. I am currently in the midst of redoing most of my grade 12 through academic upgrading and am getting 80's and higher, do I need to tell my recruiter about my bad academic history or is it what iam doing now that matters?

BTW Iam wanting to do either MARS or Naval Combat Systems.


----------



## Big Foot

From what I was told when I was home doing recruiting for RMC, upgrading is not looked. kincanucks, can you confirm this, or am I way off base?


----------



## George Wallace

ambex said:
			
		

> ......, do I need to tell my recruiter about my bad academic history or is it what iam doing now that matters?


Well, I suppose you don't have to tell your Recruiter, as you High School and College Transcripts will tell him all he needs to know.   ;D


----------



## kincanucks

RMC will look at all three grades and averaged them out and make their decision based on that.  For example:  60 + 60 + 80 = 200/3 = 67% rather simplistic way of looking at it but I with you the very best of luck getting in with that average.  Perhaps you should shoot for nineties.


----------



## ambex

Thanks for the responses. 
So kincanucks what your saying is that even though iam redoing some classes my old marks will still be looked at by the recruiter? If so I dont know what I can do to get a high enough overall then. Is it possible that they would send me to Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu for the prep year if my average did not cut it?


----------



## kincanucks

ambex said:
			
		

> Thanks for the responses.
> So kincanucks what your saying is that even though iam redoing some classes my old marks will still be looked at by the recruiter? If so I dont know what I can do to get a high enough overall then. Is it possible that they would send me to Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu for the prep year if my average did not cut it?



Your entire academic history will scrutinized and yes it is possible that you may be sent to prep year.


----------



## tyler4army

hey i was just wondering what grade you need to have to join the army i'm kinda new too this if anyone can help please e-mail me at 

tyler_livin_it_up@hotmail.com
thanks


----------



## aesop081

:


----------



## muskrat89

tyler - this question has been answered a number of times. Please use the "search" function, utilize the "Recruiting FAQs" or even better - call your local recruiter. If you do all that and still have questions, c'mon back.

Good luck.


----------



## Navygal

Grades are an extremely important part of the ROTP program, so if they are not as strong as you want them to be, I would look at some other options.  Perhaps joining the Naval Reserves will give you a little bit more insight and give you the motivation you need to seek your goal?  If you are not in universityy ou would have to join as an NCM, but there is still oppourtunities there.  There are Naval Reserve unites in most major cities.


----------



## Touchingthevoid

Hello everybody
            It's my first posting on this forum and from reading previoustly posted material, it's very welcoming and most helping. I was hoping somebody would volunteer to help me. Here is my situation, I'm in second semester of grade 12 finishing with Univeristy oriented credits. Just before the New Year I visited the recruiting office to submit my application for becoming a Canadian Forces Pilot, the Petty Officer immediatly told me that my grades were too low to become an officer. Instead he changed my application to Infantry NCM. I thought about it and considered becoming an Infanteer but I realized that I would be giving up on my dream to be a pilot and letting myself down and others. So in January of 2006 I changed my application to CEOTP Pilot. This would mean I'd have to attempt to get a Univeristy degree while serving full time. I spoke with an officer, a career counsellor. He analyzed my transcripts and grades and my overall chances. He said there was no reason why I couldn't apply and be competitive. This was great news. So I quit air cadets and my grades are now going up to the level where I could go as far as RMC( it's too late for that ) my marks in grade 11 and 10 were horrific. In February I took the aptitude test and didn't qualify as an officer thus didn't qualify to be a pilot. I was only 7 points away. I was given many NCM choices but the Leftenent mentioned that I can come back in 3 months and take the test again ( elegible to take it on May 8th). I chose to take it again. I am working very hard right now to getmy grades all the way up there, and prepare to gain those extra 7 points and beyond. 

              I have about 3 and a half years of cadet experience and much leadership practise, I wish I had higher marks in grades 11 and 10 but because of personal issues it didn't work that way. I did improve a whole lot, I am a math tutor at school, and have 2 and a half years of work experiene and I'm 17 years old. It's difficult right now, but my grades are going to be promising. I am putting all my effort to achieve that goal, I'm reading much more and getting much better at spatial sense. I know that the next time, aptitude test won't be a problem. I'm not a bad individual, I'm very honost and hard working and I truly believe in what I want to do. Please if anyone has any advice or just help me steer myself in the right direction. 

Thank you
Dyma Khmel


----------



## kj_gully

All I can say is good luck. you sound like you are on the right track. Keep "soldiering on" and stick to your plan. Ther is likely a lot of pressure in the recruit centre to get boots on the ground, but the CF needs pilots too, so stick to your convictions. Do not get frustrated (it is inevitable but don't get too frustrated) with the process, be patient, keep working. You sound like just the sort the CF needs. There are a lot of officers in here, and some good pilots (well only 1 I know is for sure but the rest SOUND like good pilots ), I hope they can give you the encouragement you need.

again good luck, and welcome.


----------



## Zoomie

Dyma - like Gully said - keep working hard towards your dream.

You are 17 - lots of time to work on grades and getting that CFAT complete.

Never let a recruitor change your application so blithely - "Ah - you want to be a pilot, eh? How does Infantry NCM sound?"   :

There are plenty of trades available to you in the CF - it could very well be that you have the aptitude to be a Pilot, or you could be the perfect person for an infantry role.  Both careers and all that they entail will no doubt be rewarding and challenge your body and mind to the fullest.

Keep us in the loop as to how your process is going - you are not alone.


----------



## Touchingthevoid

Thank you both for your replys, I will without a doubt keep close communication. I assume that the process minus aircrew selection will be complete by June. I have some time to make myself look a little better when selection board takes place. I'm doing my best to collect as much reference from my former cadet squadron and perhaps school and work. I'm just glad that I changed my application because now my chances are looking much better provided that my marks increase just as I promised. 

Thank you so much Zoomie and Gully!

Dyma


----------



## double0three

Marks aren't everything, although there is definately a certain level you have to acheive for them to accept you.  And by all the hard work lately it sounds like you are on the right track.  And at 17 years old, you could go a few years with reapplying before you get in, and you would still be young.  Nothing wrong with being in the infantry, most people I know that went that route loved it.  But if pilot is your dream, give it everything!


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

> Just before the New Year I visited the recruiting office to submit my application for becoming a Canadian Forces Pilot, the Petty Officer immediatly told me that my grades were too low to become an officer. Instead he changed my application to Infantry NCM



Sounds familiar. But I am off to Aircrew Selection in three weeks...



> Please if anyone has any advice or just help me steer myself in the right direction.


Sounds to me like you are on the right track. As mentioned earlier, you are young - don't give up. When they say no, find out why, if it's in your control; fix it and re-apply. Believe me, I have been to the recruiting centre more than a few times.  

Good luck!


----------



## Natasha

Hello


Does anyone have any experience joining the military without having their Grade 12 or GED?
I have been out of school for several yrs raising my kids. 

I want to become a RMS clerk or Supply 

They seem to need alot this coming yr 06/07


----------



## MikeL

I know some people who did, an they regret dropping out of school to join the CF instead of waiting the extra few months to grad.


----------



## Franko

I have met some guys who don't have either....just grade 10, the minimum.

Why?

Regards


----------



## bbbb

Get high marks, really high marks. You need to get a final year average of 85% to solidify your chances. Otherwise you're just one of 1000s of applicants to RMC.


----------



## Marwin

Hi,

I am a Canadian citizen (Born in Montréal), though my current location is Belgium.
The Canadian forces have always attracted me and my dream should be soon to come true, if everything goes according to my plan.
However, I still have some unanswered questions.

-I'm 17, and following the highest education program in Belgium.
-I'm taking all classes (Mathematics, English, French, Dutch, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, History, Geography, Computer sciences, Cultural sciences, Human sciences, Critical thinking, Sports, Music & Arts. I'm mainly focussing on Social/Human sciences though.)
-I'm finishing the year before the last one here.
-I'm physically fit.

Since I'm aiming for academic studies, I would like to apply for the ROTP.
Yes, I would apply for preparatory year first.

What are the requirements for preparatory year though?
What are the chances of actually being chosen? (in prep year ofcourse, I know it's harder to get in RMC.)
What are the chances of going through to RMC? - The video says preparatory year gives every cadet the same chances, so I'm guessing you can go through right away? (If you prep year that is)

And also, I've seen applications should be sent in when you're beginning your last year.
This is for RMC, but does this count for preparatory year too?
-What are they judging on? Since you have to apply in the beginning of your last year they can't really judge you by your marks of your last year.
Because now I'm working okay for school, and my grades are around the 70-75%.
I know I can work better and I will work harder next year so I get more chances of getting accepted.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

I also have another plan.
Going in as an NCO.
I haven't found info about any NCO school, so whatever you guys know about that, feel free to write it down and help me with it.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks,

your fellow Canadian.


----------



## Michael OLeary

You will find much of the information you seek has been discussed before.  The boards are well organized and the search function is effective, and becomes mnore so with practice.

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

FAQs - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41136.0.html

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977

Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


----------



## Marwin

Thank you for the reply Michael, I understand my questions seem like they've been asking a thousand times before.
I browsed the RMC site, CF site, and I've used the search button (CF site and this forum) as much as I could, but I haven't found an answer to those specific questions.

Thanks.


----------



## kincanucks

Prep year applications are submitted at the same time as the other ROTP applications normally in the Sept to November timeframe for the academic program beginning in Aug of the next year.  The academic requirements for prep year are on the RMC website however you should pay strict attention to the following which is found in the RMC undergraduate calender (also on the RMC website):

_Non-Canadian Education Systems

Students who complete secondary school through education systems other than Canadian provincial systems will be considered individually but will be required to meet equivalent standards to those indicated above. Applicants must offer as a minimum a secondary school Mathematics course that is a prerequisite for the study of calculus. Admission requirements for commonly encountered education systems are outlined below.

General Certificate Of Secondary Education (G.C.S.E.)
Arts Programme. Candidates from systems offering the General Certificate of Secondary Education (G.C.S.E.) must normally offer seven subjects, at least two of which must be at the Advanced Level (excluding the General Paper). To be eligible for consideration, grades at both the Advanced and Ordinary Levels normally must not be lower than “C”. Transfer Credits are not given.

Science/Engineering Programme. Candidates with a G.C.S.E. must offer seven subjects of which a minimum of two must be at the Advanced Level. Advanced Level subjects normally must include Mathematics and either Physics or Chemistry. If either Physics or Chemistry is not taken at the Advanced Level, it must be taken at the Ordinary Level. English is required at the Ordinary Level. Admission will be normally refused if the grades in Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry or English are lower than “C”.

International Baccalaureate System
Arts Programme. Full-diploma candidates who pass six subjects with at least three at the Higher Level, and who accumulate a grade total of 28, exclusive of bonus points, may be considered for admission. Higher Level English must be taken at least at the Subsidiary Level. Candidates granted the IB Diploma may receive transfer credits on the basis of subjects completed with a grade of 5 or better.

Science/Engineering Programme. Students will be considered for admission with an International Baccalaureate Diploma with an overall total of 28 grade points or better, exclusive of bonus points. Mathematics, Chemistry and Physics taken at the Higher Level are preferred; however, one of the above may be taken at the Subsidiary Level. English must be taken at least at the Subsidiary Level._


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## Marwin

Thanks kincanucks, that was very usefull.
I'm going back to Canada in July, and I'll certainly drop by a recruiting center for more info.


----------



## Xoshua

Hello!  I have looked through a lot of posted on this website and I have noticed a lot of people my age trying to dropout...  Now I am not trying to start an argument here but should we allow these students to learn it the hard way like some of you did, or let them finish their highschool?  Me personally, I signed for Reserves but I did want to dropout and go Full Force.  The thing is, when everyone here drills it into our young heads that it will close doors and screw our profession in the future, it doesn't really help.  I know now that I probably should get my highschool first, at least my GED, but as a young one, I am stubborn, like many of the other young ones on this forum...  

My question is, how can we explain to the new recruits to finish highschool, I am one of them...  If you search, it tells us to finish highschool, but is it really helping the new recruits decide?  Hell, some of the recruits should know that if they can't finish highschool, who says they can finish BMQ...  See in my own eyes, these new recruits are thinking to themselves they can enter CF and start living without proceeding their stepping stone of Highschool...  

So the bottom line question is, will their always be the army dropouts?  Is there a way to stop people like me from being stubborn and screwing up their life, and finishing highschool when they are in their 20's/30's and learning it the hard way?  

Thank you.


----------



## Aislinn

Yes, there will always be high school drop-outs. There is no way to stop people from doing what they want. Everyone learns about life the hard way: from living it. And we don't disagree with people learning this way -  it's how we all learned, after all. But when asked, this is the answer most of us give, to not drop out, and we _were_ asked, remember. There is no way we can "explain" life to make you understand. There is no way we can say, "It's only one or two more years". You won't get it. I'm still young and still remember that part of being a teenager. So what you're asking for is impossible. We can't transplant our own experiences, our 20/20 hindsight, into your brain. We don't even hold out much hope that you'll listen to us, because we do remember: being a teenager sucks. 
Still, for what it's worth, don't drop out. It's only one or two more years. In the mean time join the reserves. You'll one day regret it if you don't finish high school.

Good luck.


----------



## Xoshua

Hey another question...  Is it worth me getting my GED or is it the same as a dropout?  Like GED or drop?  Someone told me to get my GED, finish my training then get my highschool after....?  Good ?


----------



## from darkness lite

Advice, stay in school!! Ultimately you'll go further in life. 
The CF is a big proponent of education. Every drop out I know in the forces has ultimately gotten their high school equivalency, regretting their decision to drop out. Some of them have even gone on to complete their Masters Degree (not just officers)

FDL


----------



## paracowboy

from darkness lite said:
			
		

> Advice, stay in school!! Ultimately you'll go further in life.
> The CF is a big proponent of education. Every drop out I know in the forces has ultimately gotten their high school equivalency, regretting their decision to drop out. Some of them have even gone on to complete their Masters Degree (not just officers)
> 
> FDL


+1


----------



## double0three

My argument that I have said before and will say again:

High school is the only free thing you'll ever receive in your life.  Especially as far as education goes... did you know it costs like $7000 per year to go to post secondary school... and high school cost is $0 for 12 years.  I would say just finish the education while it's free, what are you going to lose? You're not gonna get too old to do anything with your life if you take the extra few years to finish your education.... And you won't have to go do it later.


----------



## Touchingthevoid

Hi everyone

              I don't know to what extent anyone remembers me, I want to become a pilot in the Canadian Forces ( heard that one before ). In any case, the first time I posted was to ask for advice, my grades were poor way back and I didn't qualify on the CFAT. Two weeks ago I took the CFAT again and I qualified as an officer. My medical and interview appointment is June 1st. I would like to thank those who replied to my post and offered good advice, thanks army.ca!

Dyma Khmel


----------



## kj_gully

Way to go! You are a recruiting poster. Good luck, and keep your sights on the target. You are a LONG way from  your goal, but keep working with single minded determination and you will get there. Thanks for the update. Best of luck.

Kent


----------



## Matty B.

Don't outrule going to university before joining the CF. RMC... ROTP... DEO. High school isn't the end-all and be-all of everything.


----------



## exsemjingo

Holy Shoot!

Two words for you:  Stay in School!

The Canadian army is not a catch-all for people who do not know what else to do with their lives.
It is extremely competitive, even for NCMs.   Personally, I have my B.A. (That means University Graduate), but I still have not ruled out going NCM should I not get in as a D.E.O.
My advice to you is:
1) Finish Highschool
2) Train for a trade, get a job
3) Try to join the Army if you are still interested.

By all means, send me a message if you need any more help.


----------



## Touchingthevoid

Hi everyone and thanks for responding.
                  
                I completed my interview and my medical. Thankfully both steps went smoothly but it turns out that vision in my right eye has deteriorated over the past several years that I didn't notice. Unfortunately this means I cannot be a pilot in the Canadian Forces. Although I realize that I can no longer persue my goal I was given a choice to continue the process under my second choice as Air Nav. Fortunately this trade is open under CEOTP. Although I'm posting on a disappointing note, I am very much interested in pursuing a career in the Canadian Forces even though Pilot for me is no longer possible. I was booked to take the Air Nav exam just less than a week from now. I tried the search button and I didn't get any results. If there is any suggestions or preparation tips anyone has I would highly appreciate it if they shared with me. I would like to thank army.ca for expressing interest and dedication to this particular cause and helping motivated individuals reach their ultimate height. 

Thank You 
Dyma Khmel


----------



## Ballistic

Hello guys/Ladies...


I have a few important questions I would like to ask you, and I need all the input as possible. I dropped out of High School in grade 10 because I had a child and needed to support my family. I am now 25 years old with 10 credits but have been working for computer companies as a technician for the past 6 years. Such companies as Compaq, DELL, etc.. Now, I am 25 and extremly interested in joining the Army but im not sure if not having my full grade 10 will block me from going. Rest assured gentelman, I am a very intelligent individual but had some mis-fortunes in the past preventing me from continuing my education. So here is my question.. Do you know if the Army will make exceptions when it comes too education? Would they award me credits for maturity, having children, and being a professional in the computer industry for the past 6 years. Or in my situation, would they just give me an aptitude test to prove to the army that I have the brains to join? All answer's would be great.

Thanks,


----------



## Trinity

Wow..

Um.. Kincanucks would be the best person to answer this question

PM him.


----------



## Ballistic

Do you know how i would be able to come in contact with him?


----------



## Michael OLeary

He'll show up.  He recently left a recruiting position, but still watches threads in thie forum.  Patience.


----------



## Trinity

Ballistic said:
			
		

> Do you know how i would be able to come in contact with him?



Sorry.. maybe I wasn't clear.. PM .. (personal message) him
here on the site.  He'll get back to you.

He's a polite fellow if you can get past his looks.


----------



## kincanucks

Trinity said:
			
		

> Sorry.. maybe I wasn't clear.. PM .. (personal message) him
> here on the site.  He'll get back to you.
> 
> He's a polite fellow if you can get past his looks.



PM received and answered. The minimum requirement to apply to the CF is Gr 10 and exceptions to this rule _may_ only be made to those applicants that have a college diploma or an university degree.  Some occupations require a higher level of education.  The CF does not give credit to maturity when it comes to educational requirements.


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## Magravan

It requires 15 credits, does that mean that a GED is not acceptable? If it is, maybe that is a route that this individual could pursue?


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## kincanucks

Magravan said:
			
		

> It requires 15 credits, does that mean that a GED is not acceptable? If it is, maybe that is a route that this individual could pursue?



Yes I mentioned to this individual that a GED is acceptable but only for meeting the minimum educational standard.


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## Magravan

I had no doubts at all that you'd steer him in the right direction, Kincanucks. It is just good, in my mind, to have the information available in the same topic when someone else goes searching the forums later.


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## IrishCanuck

Get your high school finished.

I have a feeling its something you may look back on later and regret not doing.


----------



## GAP

In most school districts in the last few years, they have initiated what's called here as "Second Start". It is for mature students, dropouts, etc., that need to finish their education, but also need to work for a living. Each varys, but here a student, if he/she wants to, can pick up two years credits in one school year. One of my sons is doing that after he finally realized that you get nothing without that little piece of paper.


----------



## Canadian_Bacon

Hello what are the minimum amount of credits required to be able to join the Canadian Forces. I am pretty sure that I have enough credits and have phoned the recruitment office. Is it just the amount of credits? I told the guy working that I did not have my math done but he said it does not matter just the amount of credits you have earned. Do any grade 11 courses I have taken apply towards this or is it just strictly grade 10 courses? Thank you very much.


----------



## Touchingthevoid

Hi, you must have a minimum of 16 high school credits.


----------



## kincanucks

The minimum is Grade 10 (15 credits in Ontario or Sec III in Quebec).


----------



## Soq

Hi, i am a Grade 10 student from BC. I plan on joining the army since it has always been a dream for me. I was just wondering what the actual academic requirements are. Do I need Math 11 Applications? That is what I have heard, but I also read on the canadian army website that the requirement is only grade 10. Can someone please clarify this for me, thanks.


----------



## Michael OLeary

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/resources/howtojoin_en.aspx?bhcp=1



> Basic Eligibility Requirements
> 
> To be eligible for consideration for the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following minimal conditions:
> 
> * be a Canadian citizen;
> o Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.
> 
> * be 17 years of age (with parental/guardian consent) or older;
> o junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age;
> o you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age;
> 
> * meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation;
> o this can vary from Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec) for combat arms occupations to a university degree for the Direct Entry Officer entry plan.



And then start here:

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977

Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


----------



## Trinity

Either way.. take grade 11 math

Do not shirk courses in school as it will make it harder for you
to be qualified for certain trades when you join.


----------



## Soq

Hi, ive been planning to join the army/infantry for a long time, its always been a goal. Im just wondering what the actual requirements are. Do I need grade 11 Math Applications or just Grade 10 period. Please clarify this for me, thanks.


----------



## paracowboy

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

check here. Prob'ly covered in there somewhere.


----------



## George Wallace

Soq said:
			
		

> Hi, this is my first post so ill introduce myself here. My names Matt im 15 and im from Langley B.C.I have wanted to join the army ever since my older brother became a soldier. I was just wondering the education/grade requirements because I am in grade 9 and behind by one year. I know I should probably graduate before joining but I want to know what grade I actually need to join incase things dont go as planned. And if there is a program in the army where I can finish up my extra grades. Thanks





			
				Soq said:
			
		

> Hi, i am a Grade 10 student from BC. I plan on joining the army since it has always been a dream for me. I was just wondering what the actual academic requirements are. Do I need Math 11 Applications? That is what I have heard, but I also read on the canadian army website that the requirement is only grade 10. Can someone please clarify this for me, thanks.





			
				Soq said:
			
		

> Hi, ive been planning to join the army/infantry for a long time, its always been a goal. Im just wondering what the actual requirements are. Do I need grade 11 Math Applications or just Grade 10 period. Please clarify this for me, thanks.



Seems you ought to take the advice of many on this site and stay in School.  You will learn how to read, write, and perhaps if you show initiative you will be able to find much more than you have already.  This is your third post, asking the same question.  I now point you to some interesting facts that you have ignored, even when they were pointed out to you.  Please ensure you READ them:


*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html


Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


----------



## ACE_aifilaw

Hey guys, here is another question for you.  I have finished grade 12 needing 5 credits (don't judge, i tried.  Lol)  I have had my four years of school, but just don't have my diploma.  Is it important to have the diploma, or just the high school experience.  I won't be going back to get the credits, so if it is better to have your diploma, I guess my journey getting into the army is going to be a tough one, along with my asthma. Especially since my only real passion is Infantry. Can't I catch a break?  Lol.  Oh well, I won't give up.


----------



## kincanucks

No grade 12 and asthma? Then don't bother applying.


----------



## Elwood

When I wrote the CFAT in Grade 11, 60 applied and only 33% of us passed. Only two of us had high enough scores for Med. Assistant. 

The CFAT isn’t a cake-walk. Grade 11 Physics and Grade 12 Calculus served me well on the test. If you only have grade 10, I don’t know what to say other than good luck.


----------



## patrick666

Stay in school.


----------



## Meridian

Seriously.

How you have a "passion" for infantry not actually being an infantryman is beyond me.  A passion for -learning- to be an infantryman, perhaps.
In any event, this has been asked/answered many times on here before.  The army isn't going anywhere, get your schooling. 

From what I read and hear, one of the reasons Canadians are so well liked as uniformed pers all over the world is that we are smart and generally well-educated people.  IMO (shared by many, I am sure) A high school diploma is a necessity in life; both civilian and military alike.


----------



## canadianblue

No offense but how do you know your passionate about something if you don't have any experience in it. I enjoyed some portions of Basic, and some parts of my military career, but for the most part its a job like anything else. My advice is go and get high school, and post secondary so you have something to fall back on. When I look back at it I wish I had spent more time upgrading high school and doing post secondary. Also if you plan on applying go reserves first, get a taste of it before signing away between four and six years of your life for the unknown. 

Some people love being in the military, others hate it. But when it comes down to it you have to make a smart and informed choice when you decide to take that plunge. Dropping out of high school will set you back in life, and if you find you wanna get out your gonna be kicking yourself in the ass for that mistake you made.


----------



## exsemjingo

The answer is NO.
Joining the reserves is a good idea, but stay in school at least until you get your diploma.  Then talk to some people about careers, figure out what you want to do long term, and then go reg. if that fits where you want to be long term.
I was 23 when I thought to join up, but am still finding my way.


----------



## canadianblue

Another thing is that most recruits are usually in their mid or early twenties. I was one of the youngest recruits in BMQ, and the second youngest on my QL3's. Theirs not rush, I doubt they'll stop recruiting five years down the road, no matter what their going to need bodies. The only way that will change is if their is an NDP government, and I don't see that happening EVER. 

As for reserves, it gives you a good idea of what life in the CF is like, and what you wanna do. Get some experience, even if its one day out of the week and a weekend per month.


----------



## derael

Elwood said:
			
		

> The CFAT isn’t a cake-walk. Grade 11 Physics and Grade 12 Calculus served me well on the test. If you only have grade 10, I don’t know what to say other than good luck.



I must have missed something then. I didn't see anything on the CFAT that was beyond grade 10.   ???

Either way nyture, staying in school will be well worth your time and effort. You certainly won't regret staying in school in years down the road but you may regret dropping out.


----------



## revolter

yeah I want to join the army but I have terrible grades and im gonna probably end up in adult school can this effect my chance of joinning the army once im done with adult school?


----------



## Elwood

Do well in adult school and apply for the CF. You'll find out if you're good enough if you pass the CFAT...


----------



## etnobal

We need warriors, NOT nerds.  They look at a well rounded person, you will be doing a lot more than studying at RMC, and if you can't cope with everything, you will have a lot of trouble.  Don't let anybody say your marks are not good enough, I got in with 65% average. That was 5 years ago, mabye things have changed since then... It depends also what program you want to study there, and what amount of work you will put into it... I know engineering students who barely pass their tests, and history students who work a lot more than them to only get 80% average, so it all depends of you motivation...Remember that the passing grade at RMC is actually 50%, it's really a joke, and if you fail, mabye you should find another job! They will look at all your grades, so don't worry, if you actually put the effort to get a higher average, in their minds, that equals MOTIVATION! And RMC needs all the motivation it can get, trust me!!!Nonetheless, I wish you GOOD LUCK with everything!! 

cheers


----------



## SupersonicMax

Bringing an old thread back 

Max


----------



## NCS_Eng

Its true that grades aren't everything. During my time at charm school I had a good chat with one of the members of the selection committee and he said they look at everything including the usuals like grades, leadership potential and extracurriculars. What surprised me was that a weighting was used depending on what province the applicant was from (IE a 90% in Math from Ont is given more/less weight than a 90% from say, Nova Scotia). This weighting was based on historical failure rates and provincial averages. Furthermore the selection board tries to maintain a relatively good spread of cadets thats in line with Canadian demographics. This isn't a quota system per se, just that they try to maintain a 30% from X province, 10% from Y province type of spread. There are no hard-caps. The percentage of applications received from each province tended to fall within these boundries naturally anyway. Finally they try and maintain a "good" ratio of men/women. Due to the numbers involved, this was like a 3:1 ratio (when I attended). Given the far lower amount of women that sign up for the program, it stands to reason that all other things being equal (in leadership potential and extracurriculars) someone with a 65% average would get in. 

All this information is dated (lets say, circa 2000), and I'm sure they've refined their entrance criteria and selection process since then but should give you an idea of what they are looking for. If you are a visible minority women from BC with good grades and leadership potential you are in for sure. Not to mention you will be on all the recruiting posters for the next 10 years 

Also feeverte, the place must have really changed since my time if your average history student is working harder than the engineers


----------



## kolkol

Im kind of in the same boat as you. Due to lack of motivation, laziness, and not caring my marks have suffered. Im just about to finish grade 12 and will hopefully be sitting at a 77%ish, but my math mark bombs. I'm going to do summer school math hopefully to crank 'er up, attend a community college, and join the militia, then apply for RMC in Januraryish of 08, or around then.


----------



## SupersonicMax

kolkol said:
			
		

> Due to lack of motivation, laziness, and not caring



Are you sure the military is for you  

Max


----------



## hexa

I'm 19 years old and I'm interested in becoming an imagery tech... would this be difficult to do with just a GED and limited work experience?


----------



## aesop081

hexa said:
			
		

> I'm 19 years old and I'm interested in becoming an imagery tech... would this be difficult to do with just a GED and limited work experience?



http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html


----------



## kincanucks

In addition to the invaluable information provided by the venerable CDN Aviator I would like to add this important bit of advice:

You want to be an Imagery Technician which is a highly sought after job by applicants and usually does not have a lot of open positions each year.  So what do you think your chances are when competing for a position against applicants with higher education and experience? A GED doesn't cut it for most trades and if you are applying at a recruiting centre that has a heavy processing load you may not even make past the initial screening.  Perhaps a trade with more openings such as combat arms may be more suitable then you can build experience and vastly improve your educational level.  Good Luck.


----------



## hexa

thank you for your replies!


----------



## dustinm

I hate to ask another question but I have searched about this one and I doubt it's that common an answer.

I DO realize I need Bio and one of Chem/Physics for Med Tech.
I DO realize I need those because they're a requirement for the PCP training in BC.
I DO realize that if I have some kind of higher-reaching academic/medical training they'll let me by without the credits.

What I don't know is if there is some where in the CF or not where I could sit a test and be granted an equivalency if I don't have the test or higher education?

I'm not concerned about the credit itself, but rather the time commitment. I honestly believe that with my current level of knowledge about Biology and Chemistry that I could pass equivalency tests for them, but I'm not aware of anywhere that would run such a test or whether the CF/JCIB would accept it.

Any idea? Thanks in advance.


----------



## medaid

dustinm said:
			
		

> I hate to ask another question but I have searched about this one and I doubt it's that common an answer.
> 
> I DO realize I need Bio and one of Chem/Physics for Med Tech.
> I DO realize I need those because they're a requirement for the PCP training in BC.
> I DO realize that if I have some kind of higher-reaching academic/medical training they'll let me by without the credits.
> 
> What I don't know is if there is some where in the CF or not where I could sit a test and be granted an equivalency if I don't have the test or higher education?
> 
> I'm not concerned about the credit itself, but rather the time commitment. I honestly believe that with my current level of knowledge about Biology and Chemistry that I could pass equivalency tests for them, but I'm not aware of anywhere that would run such a test or whether the CF/JCIB would accept it.
> 
> Any idea? Thanks in advance.



Uh...NO. Not in the CF, and NONE for the CF/JIBC unless already stated that you've got a Degree in Bio/Chem or Microbi or Org Chem or something something... nothing? Get your time commitment and do your credits. 


Well... hold on... ask your local school board if they offer "challenge" exams which allow you to challenge the course you want to in highschool level. But you've gotta have read the material, done the course to do that. Oh well...


----------



## deej96

> Well... hold on... ask your local school board if they offer "challenge" exams which allow you to challenge the course you want to in highschool level. But you've gotta have read the material, done the course to do that. Oh well...



I know that you can challenge a provincial exam in BC without taking the course, however I don't know if it will translate into what you are looking for [if it's accepted as a pre requisite or not].
Best bet is to call the recruiters..and a school...


----------



## dustinm

deej96 said:
			
		

> I know that you can challenge a provincial exam in BC without taking the course, however I don't know if it will translate into what you are looking for [if it's accepted as a pre requisite or not].
> Best bet is to call the recruiters..and a school...



I see.

Thanks for the heads up guys!


----------



## exgunnertdo

Most provinces offer HS courses by correspondence.  If you take the credit that way, you can probably breeze through the course work without having to spend hours in a classroom (if as you say, you already know the material).  That could be a route if the challenge exam doesn't pan out.


----------



## The_Falcon

You need the Grade 12 credits (as opposed to grade 11) or grade 12 equivalency (the ACE program offered by Ontario Community colleges).  I got this straight from CFRC Toronto (as currently I need to upgrade in order to continue my CT).


----------



## the_girlfirend

I agree, courses by correspondance is a good option for you, they offer them in Quebec, but I don't know for Ontario. 
You might even be able to take them as fast as you want and do the exam very soon...


----------



## The_Falcon

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> I agree, courses by correspondance is a good option for you, they offer them in Quebec, but I don't know for Ontario.
> You might even be able to take them as fast as you want and do the exam very soon...



for ontario www.ilc.org


----------



## dustinm

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> for ontario www.ilc.org



Thanks.

My best bet looks like going in as another trade for my first BE and then trying to remuster in 3 years after getting the prereqs out of the way and all that jazz.


----------



## aesop081

dustinm said:
			
		

> My best bet looks like going in as another trade for my first BE and then trying to remuster in 3 years after getting the prereqs out of the way and all that jazz.



You know theres a big proble with your "best bet" right ?


----------



## dustinm

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You know theres a big proble with your "best bet" right ?



If I knew I wouldn't have said it 

I'll say right now that I used "BE" to mean "contract"...I actually have no idea what it stands for, and as it's only two letters long the search wasn't much help. (The initial contract _is_ 3 years, right?)

P.S.: As I haven't stated what I wanted those credits for, it was so I could be a Med Tech. Another option is to look for a civvy PCP program that doesn't need Bio and Chem/Physics and then apply as semi-skilled (I believe?) *Edit*: Nevermind. I did state that I wanted Med Tech.


----------



## dangerboy

Just in case you did not know, changing trades is not always very easy.  There is no guarantee that you will be able to change trades once you get in.  It is better to wait and meet all the pre-req's instead of rushing into a trade you are not interested in and not being able to get out of it in the future. That is my advice, take it for what its worth.


----------



## dustinm

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Just in case you did not know, changing trades is not always very easy.  There is no guarantee that you will be able to change trades once you get in.  It is better to wait and meet all the pre-req's instead of rushing into a trade you are not interested in and not being able to get out of it in the future. That is my advice, take it for what its worth.



I am aware of the difficulty. It has to be a green trade, there has to be a surplus in my trade and a lack in the one I want to go into, it has to be in the best interests of the Forces, though as I understood it's more of a numbers/waiting game than a "stuck forever" game. Then again, spending 5 years in another trade (god forbid) would definitely kill my morale if I really want Med Tech.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## PMedMoe

First off, don't get in the CF in another trade in hopes that you'll be able to easily OT.  Sometimes, it just doesn't happen as quickly as you want it to and you'll be miserable in the other trade.  Trust me.  It took me five attempts to get my OT.  Thankfully, at the time, the course ran twice a year.

You're still young, get the high school courses you need and then apply.

After thought:  Why didn't you just continue this thread instead of starting another?


----------



## aesop081

dustinm said:
			
		

> I understood it's more of a numbers/waiting game than a "stuck forever" game.



You understood wrong.






> Then again, spending 5 years in another trade (god forbid) would definitely kill my morale if I really want Med Tech.



So dont join until you meet the pre-requisites for the trade that you want.


----------



## Niteshade

DustinM,

I am seriously confused as to why you feel it necessary to circumvent having to complete some highschool credits. In a worst case scenario, you could have them completed in what: 3 to 6 months doing night school?

It is better to complete the required education than waste 3+ years of time in the military training for one trade, only to ask for a remuster and go for medic. You waste your time as you may not enjoy your first trade until you remuster, you waste the governments time and money training you... you take up a SPOT in that initial trade that someone else wanted.

Don't be selfish and get your education out of the way first.

Nites


----------



## MedTechStudent

Ok, from one 18 year old to another.

Right now I'm at CFB Borden waiting for my Med Tech course to start.  Just finished BMQ 10 days ago, I'm pretty much as green as you can get without being a Recruit so I know exactly where you're coming from.

My advice is to stop trying to find ways around it and just take the courses.  I took them in high school because I knew I wanted to come here.  If you are as proficient as you claim to be then it should be no problem.  Yes the time issue sucks, but its only a semester, opposed to years you could spend trying to change trades.  

Also, consider the administrative hassle you'd be putting on the CF.  Don't let the Gov spend thousands of dollars training you to do something that you are just gonna turn around and leave to be a medic.  Its not really fair.  People *usually* switch trades cause they realize something is not right for them, or they grow bored of it, or other legitimate reasons.

If you want this, take the courses.  Wish you the best of luck.

Cheers, Kyle


----------



## dustinm

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> First off, don't get in the CF in another trade in hopes that you'll be able to easily OT.  Sometimes, it just doesn't happen as quickly as you want it to and you'll be miserable in the other trade.  Trust me.  It took me five attempts to get my OT.  Thankfully, at the time, the course ran twice a year.
> 
> You're still young, get the high school courses you need and then apply.
> 
> After thought:  Why didn't you just continue this thread instead of starting another?



Er, yeah. That would have been a good idea. This question is mostly answered. If a mod comes by, they could delete this thread.  :


----------



## The_Falcon

Neo Cortex said:
			
		

> If I knew I wouldn't have said it
> 
> I'll say right now that I used "BE" to mean "contract"...I actually have no idea what it stands for, and as it's only two letters long the search wasn't much help. (The initial contract _is_ 3 years, right?)
> 
> P.S.: As I haven't stated what I wanted those credits for, it was so I could be a Med Tech. *Another option is to look for a civvy PCP program that doesn't need Bio and Chem/Physics and then apply as semi-skilled (I believe?) Edit:* Nevermind. I did state that I wanted Med Tech.



Good luck with that in Ontario since every college PCP program requires you to have bio and chem/physics of some sort (not as picky as the cf only requiring grade 12, most/all college accept grade 11/12 credits at the C/M/U levels).


----------



## KingKikapu

highschool science is like playing a musical instrument: you learn by practice.  Nobody picks up the darned thing on the first go and plays flight of the bumble bee.  It might take time, but the efforts will be well worth it.  Please remember that.


----------



## dustinm

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Good luck with that in Ontario since every college PCP program requires you to have bio and chem/physics of some sort (not as picky as the cf only requiring grade 12, most/all college accept grade 11/12 credits at the C/M/U levels).



Yes, there is that.

As an example, Humber (http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07651.htm) will accept Grade 11U Bio and Chem and Grade 12C Math (all of which I have, though my science marks aren't stellar) along with admissions testing for Grade 12 Bio and Chem.


----------



## glen24

I have a question regarding education requirements for joining the Canadian forces that has not been answered clearly in any of the FAQ's I have read so far.I am currently unemployed however I do have a job offer right now for a technical support position for Xerox, for about six months now I have been seriously wanting to join the Canadian forces (obviously have admired  soldiers and this type of work for a long time) but I have been thinking hard about it lately, especially since I received the email regarding the job offer with Xerox.So here is my problem, I know you are going to tell me to get my GED or something like to that effect and that's fine all criticism is welcome but I would also like some answers that directly pertain to the specific question I ask, please.When I was in High school I dropped out in the middle of grade ten.I came back the following year and because I had good grades for the first half of the previous year, they agreed to bump me up to grade 11 for all of my courses except for math.I excelled in all of my courses for the first half of the year and because of relationship problems with the girlfriend I had at the time and some bullying and no friends issues I dropped out of high school.I am not sure what my official education level is and I do not really know how to find out.I am wondering if anyone knows how deeply the Canadian Army looks into your educational background.I would not be against obtaining my high school diploma while working with the armed forces.I know to get a lot of the jobs I have in the past used a fake diploma that I made with my computer and that hasn't failed me yet.I understand if no one wants to post publicly if in fact the Canadian forces do not look to deep into your educational background but if you have any insider information you wouldn't mind sharing with me either publicly or via the private message system set up on these boards I would really appreciate the time you took to do so.Thank you for your time guys!


----------



## Nfld Sapper

glen24 said:
			
		

> I have a question regarding education requirements for joining the Canadian forces that has not been answered clearly in any of the FAQ's I have read so far.I am currently unemployed however I do have a job offer right now for a technical support position for Xerox, for about six months now I have been seriously wanting to join the Canadian forces (obviously have admired  soldiers and this type of work for a long time) but I have been thinking hard about it lately, especially since I received the email regarding the job offer with Xerox.So here is my problem, I know you are going to tell me to get my GED or something like to that effect and that's fine all criticism is welcome but I would also like some answers that directly pertain to the specific question I ask, please.When I was in High school I dropped out in the middle of grade ten.I came back the following year and because I had good grades for the first half of the previous year, they agreed to bump me up to grade 11 for all of my courses except for math.I excelled in all of my courses for the first half of the year and because of relationship problems with the girlfriend I had at the time and some bullying and no friends issues I dropped out of high school.I am not sure what my official education level is and I do not really know how to find out.I am wondering if anyone knows how deeply the Canadian Army looks into your educational background.I would not be against obtaining my high school diploma while working with the armed forces.*I know to get a lot of the jobs I have in the past used a fake diploma that I made with my computer and that hasn't failed me yet.*I understand if no one wants to post publicly if in fact the Canadian forces do not look to deep into your educational background but if you have any insider information you wouldn't mind sharing with me either publicly or via the private message system set up on these boards I would really appreciate the time you took to do so.Thank you for your time guys!



Not a good way to start. There is new background checking in place so I would highly suggest you get your GED if you want to join the CF.

EDITED TO ADD, 

from the company that does the background checking:



> Education Verifications
> Education Verifications are obtained through interviews with representatives of the Educational Institutions listed by the candidate. Ensure job requirements are met. Ensure honesty.
> 
> Education is one of the most common areas of embellishment on a candidate’s résumé. Despite the necessity of the education to meet job requirements, BackCheck recommends verifying education claims because of the frequency of embellishment. The embellishment of education claims speaks to the level of integrity and honesty of a candidate.


----------



## glen24

Thanks for the response,I know lying about ones education isn't a good way to start anything that you intended on starting in the first place to gain a sense of accomplishment.In the same sense I have to look out for my best interest and I'm not necessarily talking about money.Thanks for your response I don't want this to come off as rude or anything but do you have first hand information that they do a background check?Thanks again for the response!


----------



## Nfld Sapper

It is part of the recruiting process.

EDITED TO ADD 

From the recruiting website:



> All employees of the Canadian government are subjected to a reliability check to various degrees. Potential CF members are subjected to an enhanced check to confirm your reliability and trustworthiness in the performance of your duties and in the protection of the assets and interests of the Canadian Forces and its personnel.
> 
> This check will only be conducted with your consent. Should you withhold your consent or not authorize the necessary checks, your application will not be considered further.


----------



## SupersonicMax

So, you want to print a fake diploma and submit that to the CFRC?  If that is indeed the case, you are definately not the kind of person the CF are looking for....

In the CF, you need to look out of the CFs interest before your own.  That selfish attitude won't get you anywhere, in the CF or in life.


----------



## glen24

Oh sorry, I responded before you edited your post.Thanks for the information my friend I guess I will have to settle for technical support.I just really wanted to go with this motivation I have been having as of the last few months and really do something meaning full, you know, make some good decisions .Oh , I guess that will be another day.


----------



## SupersonicMax

Why not get your (real) GED and apply??  That would show motivation, give you a sense of accomplishment and would really be meaningful!


----------



## glen24

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> So, you want to print a fake diploma and submit that to the CFRC?  If that is indeed the case, you are definately not the kind of person the CF are looking for....
> 
> In the CF, you need to look out of the CFs interest before your own.  That selfish attitude won't get you anywhere, in the CF or in life.



I have a fake diploma and If need be I use it, I was 16 when I dropped out of school and needed more money than Wendy's could offer (although I worked there for four years) .I can program in a bunch of languages and I have never been fired fired from a job, I have never lied about specific skills I have in order to get a job.There have been cases where a potential employer asked me if I knew of "Active directory" I said no and moved on with my life.I am not looking to cheat someone out of value if I say I can do something its because I can and if I say I cant it is the same situation.I never set out to offend you but I don't know military edicate as well as you so I am sorry for that.Thanks for all the information guys stay safe.


----------



## glen24

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Why not get your (real) GED and apply??  That would show motivation, give you a sense of accomplishment and would really be meaningful!



You are right of course, that would seem to be my best option.I just got myself right motivated about joining the Army tomorrow (while watching basic up videos).I registered for this forum and when I went to check my email low and behold I received an email from Xerox offering a job and it just threw a loop into things.I just don't want to get comfortable at this new job and then regret not giving the Army a shot while the idea was fresh.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Nobody here can make that decision for you.  Talk to a recruiter about your options, and don't hold anything back.


----------



## Nauticus

Lying to get into the Canadian Forces is not a good way to start out what you hope to be a long career.


----------



## bomber12

what trade are you wanting to get into in the military? I only have my grade 11 and I am in the middle of my application process for Infantry. But sending in a fake diploma to a government job is fucked.


----------



## ltmaverick25

Glen,

To answer your question, the minimum education requirement for entry into the CF is completion of grade 10.  You mentioned that you finished half of your grade 10 year and that later you got a bump up to do some grade 11 courses.  Did you complete any of those courses?  If so, I would suggest that you may just barely meet the education requirements, which is potentially good news.

Now to answer your other question.  You cannot use your fake diploma to gain admission into the CF.  Not even a real diploma will work.  The Canadian Forces Recruiting Center requires your highschool TRANSCRIPTS.  It is these transcripts that are used to verify your education.  So your fake diploma is useless insofar as entry into the CF is concerned.

In order for the recruiting center to open your file they demand the following items from you.

-Highschool transcripts
-SIN Card (its not good enough to memorize your SIN number, they insist on making a photocopy of your SIN card)
-Birth certificate
-Drivers licence if you have one.

If you do not bring in ALL of the above items, the recruiting center will simply not process you.

Here is what I suggest.  Contact your former highschool and request a copy of your transcripts.  Gather up your SIN card, drivers licence and birth certificate and head into the recruiting center.  Show them what you have and ask them if you qualify for entry.  It is my beleif, based on what you have said (assuming that you have been truthful) that you will likely be deemed to have acheived the minimum education requirement for entry into the CF.  If that is the case then your all set.

If they determine that you do not currently meet the minimum education requirements you can appeal that decision and use previous work experience to substantiate your appeal.  You may even be able to write the CFAT test.  If you write the test, and do well enough on the test, and you have half of grade 10 completed, I would think the recruiting center would be very hard pressed to turn you down.

However, if they do declare your education to be too low, even after an appeal, you then have the opportunity to ask them exactly what courses you need in order to rectify the situation.  The solution is then simple.  Take the courses and re-apply and the recruiting center will be extremely enthusiastic about processing your application.

So there you have it.  If you take my advice, I beleive you will find yourself with a decent prospect of getting in.  If you do not take this advice and you attempt to fool the recruiting center with your fake diploma, you will fail, and any chance at serving your country will vanish.  Is that what you really want?

Now that I have gotten all of the advise out of the way.  A few questions for you.  The impression I am getting from you is that you have no interest in completing any highschool requirements PRIOR to joining the CF.  Is my assumption correct?  If so, why?  I am sure you are sick of hearing this type of sermon, but you must understand that you will only hurt yourself in the long run if you do not take steps to complete your formal education.  Even if you gain admission to the CF, what will you do if you happen to fail military training and get kicked out?  What will you do if you injure yourself and are no longer suitable for employment with the CF?  These are serious questions you need to consider when making decisions about your future.

One other point I would like to make...  You seem to be trying to gain "our" approval for your fake diploma tactic, or in effect talk us into it.  It is a useless venture.  Even if you succeeded in convincing us that this is a good idea, you will still fail to gain entry into the CF.  None of us have any say in the matter, the only thing we can do is give you our advice.  I strongly recommend that you follow the advice given to you here.

The CF is in dire need of new, motivated recruits.  Work with the system honestly and I beleive you will succeed.

Good luck with your application.


----------



## George Wallace

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> To answer your question, the minimum education requirement for entry into the CF is completion of grade 10.  You mentioned that you finished half of your grade 10 year and that later you got a bump up to do some grade 11 courses.  Did you complete any of those courses?  If so, I would suggest that you may just barely meet the education requirements, which is potentially good news.



Yes.  You should get you High School transcripts and bring them into the CFRC.  You may indeed have met the qualifications, depending on what credits you have successfully completed.  Depending on what Trade you plan on applying for, there will be different credits required.

Fake docs will not pass the scrutiny put to them.  You will go through dozens of 'Security checks' in your military career, especially in certain Trades, so your chances of being discovered as "unreliable" are fairly good.



			
				ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> If they determine that you do not currently meet the minimum education requirements you can appeal that decision and use previous work experience to substantiate your appeal.  You may even be able to write the CFAT test.  If you write the test, and do well enough on the test, and you have half of grade 10 completed, I would think the recruiting center would be very hard pressed to turn you down.
> 
> However, if they do declare your education to be too low, even after an appeal, you then have the opportunity to ask them exactly what courses you need in order to rectify the situation.  The solution is then simple.  Take the courses and re-apply and the recruiting center will be extremely enthusiastic about processing your application.



If you do not meet the education requirements, you will be "Counseled Out" and given suggestions on what you require to come back at a later date when you can meet the requirements.  Passing a CFAT test will not get you any "Bypass" for education.  It is simply an Aptitude Test to see what Trade/Career you are suitable for.

If you are serious about joining the CF, you can check out the criteria that must be met to join on this site or the CF site.  If in doubt about any of your documentation, visit a CFRC and one of their councillors will will be able to verify or advise you on what your prospects are.  Do not falsify anything, as the chances of being outed are very high.


----------



## observor 69

Glen looking at your comments here and the fact you are have a job history in IT it is laughable that you have let a high school diploma be such a big obstacle in your career goals. 
Go to night school, correspondence  or as a last resort a GED. You know you have the smarts now go and get that diploma.  

Good luck!


----------



## geo

Glen... take that job at Xerox.

We'll call you for service calls when our copiers break


----------



## ixium

Or a sig...

Anyways, I joined with only grade 10, and had the choice of TONS of trades (was shown what i qualified for).

So long as you have grade 10 and do well on the CFAT they aren't going to care about your education


----------



## Drag

All the trades in the CF require some level of Security Clearance.  The odds of them missing a fake diploma during the backround check are slim to none.... better off telling the recruiter the truth


----------



## geo

From a personal perspective, I do not see the benefit/advantage about lying on your application.
Note that, if we miss it upon your enrollment ... only to spot it at a leter date - when we are doing a deeper security clearance, we will have ample grounds for dismissal.  Irregular enrollment, fraudulent enrollment are terms that come to mind.

A lot easier to sell yourself for what you have & who you are than to fabricate stories.  The stories have a tendancy of changing with time... you make them pretty OR you get vague on places and dates.... it takes a lot of effort to maintain lies....


----------



## dr.davies

As a complement to what has already been said, I strongly suggest getting your high school diploma, regardless of whether you will be applying for the CF or applying for jobs down the road.  It is true that education, resume, cover letter, work experience, ...  are all factors an employer uses in making a hiring decision.  An interview is still the greatest factor.  That said, if you blow them away in the interview, you may be competing with 10 other people.  Without showing you had the commitment to finish a high school diploma (regardless of reasons or excuses) I think you're dead in the water.  Use it as a goal, and even show the CFRC that it is your goal.  Go start your application, tell them you plan on finishing your diploma before proceeding with your application. Then go out and do it and come in with your transcript and a smile, proving you were committed, and did it.

I have a computer science degree, and I want to add that if you can in fact understand programming, regardless of language, you have the foundation.  You will be working backwards and I assure you the logic and mathematics will come easy to you.  Just go out and do it.  Good luck.


----------



## Wells

Hey.

I'm currently in Grade 11 but would like to join the reserves before I enlist after I graduate but I seem to have run into a problem with the education requirements. The current school that I attend, I attended in grade nine only. 

See, I moved to Australia for around one year, six months where I attended a local high school in Queensland. I only finished one semester before dropping out to complete an information tech diploma at TAFE (A Australian Based College).

I just recently returned back to Canada (Alone with no parents) and am enrolled in Grade 11 (Somehow my old school accepted me without even asking for records of marks of Grade 10).

I picked up the recruitment package from the local reserve unit but it says you need to show a transcript of your marks. I don't have a transcript, seeing as I never really completed the full year of 10 and I haven’t received a report card yet for grade 11 (Won’t till june as I moved back in October).

Is there anything I can do? Cant they waiver it as I am currently a fulltime student in Grade 11? I know in the Australian Defence Forces you can sit a test if you cannot provide a transcript but dunno about the CF.


----------



## George Wallace

Bring in your School Transcripts, including those from Australia.

Every School System, even in Canada, has different standards and levels of Education.  For instance Grade 12 in Saskatchewan is Senior Matriculation, while in PEI it is only Junior Matriculation.  Where a person in PEI needs to complete Grade 12 to enter UPEI, a person from Sask can enter UPEI after Grade 11, as what happened to my sister.  Your Education in Australia, may be enough to fulfill your requirements to join the CF; but you will only know after you bring in your transcripts for evaluation.

At the same time, the Education Requirements to join the Reserves are not as stringent as the Regular Force, as many Reservists are still in High School or University.  Again, visit the CFRC and get this sorted out.


----------



## dangerboy

Did you ask the recruiter those questions?  They are the only ones that can fully answer them.  My suggestion bring in all the paperwork you have including the stuff from TAFE to the recruiting centre and see what they say.


----------



## Nauticus

Gumby said:
			
		

> Here is my story.  I dropped out with 12 credits about 4 years ago.  STUPIDEST thing I ever did.  When the time came that I wanted to apply to the RegF, I went to my old school to see if I could re-enroll for a semester to get the 15 credits.  They told me that since I had been out of school and worked so much that they would give me 3 maturity credits.
> 
> The CFRC said obviously that it is preferred that I had grade 12 and would make me more competitive, but he would accept my application.
> 
> In the time it has taken to get in, I have taken several steps to increase my education including correspondence courses, and I am now in the process of setting up my GED exam.  The CFRC was very happy to see this.
> 
> One last comment re: schooling vs. smarts.  Amongst the many factory and fast food jobs I have worked at, I have never seen anything to suggest that having a piece of paper called a diploma or degree, makes someone better or smarter.  I have seen university students working at Subway and as temps at the factories, and I have seen dropouts running these places.
> 
> These are all my own views and experiences and none are meant to insult or offend anyone, hope it helps.  Cheers!!


I know what you're saying, but the only reason that people who have degrees are working in low-level jobs is because they don't have the work experience that somebody who spent that same time working has. And honestly, running a Subway isn't exactly an accomplishment. In the long run, somebody with a degree could end up much farther than someone without one. While you run a Subway, I'll be investigating fraud, or have a role in corporate management.

Many respectable corporations require a degree for certain, higher positions. You're right that a degree doesn't make a person "smarter", but it doesn't at all make them any "less" smart. On top of which, they have a huge educational/knowledge advantage over an uneducated person, and for most people (me as well) that is important. Plus, their reading, writing, and grammar skills are often better based on using it more.


----------



## matt101pwn

Hey I am also 16 and joining the reserves in 2010. Noticing your grammar I believe it would be of great benefit to you to stay in highschool and get your diploma. You can apply all you want but it doesn't mean you will get into the military, So have a second plan just incase! I would also like to inform you that you have to write tests, its just like school, and you will need your basic english credits to have a chance to pass. Listen, I decided to join reserves, I am currently in grade 11 and you can still get your credits and still be involved in the military IF YOU PASS YOUR TESTS! Just finish up highschool, and then look at joining the Regular force. You can always join reserves, see if you like it, and when your 18 (Or 17 with parental approval) take the upgrade course to join regular force. If you need any more help ask me matt, or anyone else helpful on this site. Thanks.


----------



## ajp

"that you have to right tests"

Thats - write tests


----------



## George Wallace

ajp said:
			
		

> "that you have to right tests"
> 
> Thats - write tests



 ;D

You missed ".......you will need your basic english credits to have a chance to past. "

"PASS"

"matt" should pay closer attention in English class, as he made numerous other grammatical errors, which he may find cause him grief on some future test. 

The advice to stay in school is sound.


----------



## matt101pwn

Sorry for my gramatical error. Was in a rush and wasn't really paying attention. I still beleive you should have a 2nd plan just incase so you don't get screwed over- pardon my language.

Matt


----------



## matt101pwn

The previous post has been fixed by the way. Thanks for correcting me.

Matt


----------



## A.Khan

Hi guys. I was just wondering... what courses in high school would be beneficial to help join the Army? From grade 9 - 12.


----------



## George Wallace

Tell you what........I'll merge this question to a long topic on what education you need to join the CF.  You can also look at some of the Trades in the various forums and their education requirements.  (Do a SEARCH to find one that may be of interest to you.)  As we don't know what your goals in life are, we can not recommend a career path, nor the courses to take to reach your goals.  You won't need Grade 12 Biology to become a Cook, but you will need it to become a Medic.  Have fun reading.


----------



## matt101pwn

I suggest Physical Education for sure, and depending on what career in the military, build on from their. Please look up your most wanted career in the forces and see what you need. Their is a wonderful search button up top. If you need anything, let me know.

Matt


----------



## Michael OLeary

matt101pwn said:
			
		

> I suggest Physical Education for sure, and depending on what career in the military, build on from their. Please look up your *most wasted career* in the forces and see what you need. Their is a wonderful search button up top. If you need anything, let me know.
> 
> Matt



I think you meant "most wanted career" there, Mr Freud.


----------



## matt101pwn

This is the 2nd time someone has called me Mr, something or other. I am in Highschool and during my lunch I gather information about the Military as I am hoping to make it a future career. I try to help others out, but I am in a rush and have little time, so I rush. I am sorry to everyone for my grammar and spelling mistakes I might make when I type.

Thanks; Matt


----------



## ajp

Matt, not to add fuel to the fire but:

Mr in referring to a subordinate officer (often used on OCdt's and some 2Lts in particular) is a derogatory slam.  But when an officer addresses the RSM of his unit as Mr it is supposed to be a compliment.  

Take it as you wish.


----------



## Occam

matt101pwn said:
			
		

> I try to help others out, but I am in a rush and have little time, so I rush.



Some free advice:  Focus on quality, and not quantity.

If you want some background on those "Mr" references, I would start with Googling "Freudian slip" and "Nostradamus".  Things should make a bit more sense then.   ;D


----------



## Journeyman

ajp said:
			
		

> Matt, not to add fuel to the fire but:
> 
> Mr in referring to a subordinate officer (often used on OCdt's and some 2Lts in particular) is a derogatory slam.  But when an officer addresses the RSM of his unit as Mr it is supposed to be a compliment.
> 
> Take it as you wish.



In previous posts, Matt was referred to as "Mr Nostradamus" and "Mr Freud." I believe the intent was sarcasm.

But thanks for contrinbuting to the thread......"Mr Completely Missed the Point"     ;D


----------



## ajp

Ack....out.


----------



## CBAtt

Sorry, 
I did not read the full thread but would like to share my story with you. 
I got kicked out of school in grade 9, So i would of been about 14/15 range I think. Now I am 20 years old, which this is what has been my life. Living pay check to pay check, Never had a real good career. Always bouncing trying to make a living, now I am 20 years old and look back and say WTF was I THINKING. One buddy, has done 2 tours, owes a house and is set for life. My other buddy, is already done all his helicopter mechanic training. Another owns a company. Here I look at myself and what do I have? a 1994 chevy with a gf that I wanna kick out the door. Now i am 20 years old, wishing I would of stayed in school cause Now i am doing it right now. Older I am getting, longer its taking and time I am losing. So here I am 20 years old in grade 10, seems out of place to me.
So Just wanted to say all you kids, trust me on this. Stay in school, I wish I could go back into time and change everything. But whats been done has been done, so I pay the price. My recruiter even told me, apply now with grade 10 and wait. The CF wants grade 12, he told me. Infantry and laughed, seems like Pilot will be easyer to get into. Too many war movies, videos games. All these young kids watch and play games, think thats how it really is.
Anywho, 
Just stay in school.. Wait it out..


----------



## matt101pwn

Thanks, will do. I beleive many people can learn from your story, and many people can learn from it. Thanks for the post.

Matt


----------



## kincanucks

matt101pwn said:
			
		

> Thanks, will do. I beleive many people can learn from your story, and many people can learn from it. Thanks for the post.
> 
> Matt



WTF?  Put yourself on receive only for the next 5 years.


----------



## Journeyman

kincanucks said:
			
		

> WTF?  Put yourself on receive only for the next 5 years.


I'm not sure that's the nurturing attitude Mike had in mind in his dogpile post    ;D


----------



## kincanucks

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that's the nurturing attitude Mike had in mind in his dogpile post    ;D



I know but I have never been accused of being the nuturing type.  I have no excuse for my behaviour and I have taken steps to correct it.

matt101pwn - Please read what you written before posting, carefully.  It is not necessary for you to comment on everything as people will soon tire of you and even if you have a good point it may be ignored.  Perhaps taking some time to digest the information rather than spitting it out for the sake of wanting to contribute would be the best approach.  As you gain more experience, say in about five years,  I am confident that you will become a invaluable contributer to these forums.


----------



## Loachman

I hereby accuse you of being the nurturing type, based upon your last post.


----------



## Teflon

DOG PILE THE NURTURER!!!!


----------



## matt101pwn

I said thankyou. Whats wrong with that? I read his post, thought it might help others, and told him how i felt.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Back on topic folks,..........if we can find it.
Bruce


----------



## mainse-event

I have my grade 11 and dropped out of high school because nothing I was learning was relevant to what I wanted to do in life. What I am wondering is, if I join the army will my career be forever be hindered by the fact that I don't have this little piece of paper? The army is what I want to do with my life, and I am VERY serious about serving my country and being all I can be, its just a weight on my mind that I might not be able to achieve my full potential as a NCM all because I stupidly left high school. Going back is not an option for me, I am enlisting in the spring. Any thoughts or words of comfort would be appreciated.


----------



## ammocat

I am not sure what the minimum requirement is now days for joining (and I haven't looked). I did not have high school when I joined and I have not had any problems. I did receive my GED several years after I joined (recommended and supported by my CoC). The only way it may affect you is if you decide to commission from the ranks later in your career.


----------



## MikeL

I believe you need grade 10 with so many credits to enlist. However some trades require more than that.


Even if you want a trade that only requires the min education I highly recommend getting your High School/GED. It will be beneficial for you. Either get it now, or if you want to blow it off for now atleast get it sometime in the near future.


----------



## mainse-event

Thankyou, i have decided i will join infantry as a NCM and continue my high school through the independent learning centre.


----------



## Niteshade

I also recommend getting your highschool education. It's just plain good to have. 

from http://www.forces.ca/html/directentry_en.aspx


> If you have at least a grade 10 education and prefer to join the Canadian Forces directly rather than take advantage of our subsidized technical college or university education plans, we will provide you with recruit training and all the necessary training to become a technician or an operator in the Army, the Navy or the Air Force. You will of course enjoy a competitive salary from day 1 as well as many other benefits.



Good luck!

Nites


----------



## Jarnhamar

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I have my grade 11 and dropped out of high school because nothing I was learning was relevant to what I wanted to do in life.



Math
English
Geography
History
Written and verbal communications.
Home-ed or whatever it's called where you learn to cook and sew
Chemistry
Science
Physics.

Apparently you weren't taking ANY of these courses because these are all vital to being a soldier. What the heck WERE you taking??

Dropping out of high school was a HUGE mistake (and dumb, deal with it). 
Joining the military is great but use the military to get your highschool diploma. THEN get a college diploma.

In the army, like highschool, you will be taught things that *you* don't think are important. Just listen and learn anyways and a few years down the road you'll thank yourself.


----------



## mainse-event

Still looking for a direct answer to my question, thank you in advance.


----------



## Michael OLeary

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I have my grade 11 and dropped out of high school because nothing I was learning was relevant to what I wanted to do in life. What I am wondering is, if I join the army will my career be forever be hindered by the fact that I don't have this little piece of paper?



That depends.  What, exactly, are your goals for a career in the Canadian Forces?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Hello mainse-event. First off congrats on your choice to join the CF, but I have to ask you a serious question. What if you don't make the cut? What if you wash out of BMQ etc? You should have your education to fall back on in case you need to rethink your career options.


----------



## armyvern

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I have my grade 11 and dropped out of high school because nothing I was learning was relevant to what I wanted to do in life. What I am wondering is, if I join the army will my career be forever be hindered by the fact that I don't have this little piece of paper? The army is what I want to do with my life, and I am VERY serious about serving my country and being all I can be, its just a weight on my mind that I might not be able to achieve my full potential as a NCM all because I stupidly left high school. Going back is not an option for me, I am enlisting in the spring. Any thoughts or words of comfort would be appreciated.



If there is a lesson to be learned in your statement for kids out there today ... it's stay in school and get that High School diploma.

I say this only because you stated that you dropped out of school because nothing you were learning was relevant to what you wanted to do in life; but, that what you want to do in life is join the Army ... and now your wondering if education is relevant to that.

I've had a few troops who didn't have High School: some did/are doing well. I recommend to them that they take advantage of GED opportunities that present (through the MFRC etc), and that they 'upgrade' even if only as a self-confidence booster. At least one of them is actually doing extremely well. It all depends upon the effort that you're willing to put into it and choosing a trade (which you qualify for) that really interests you. You can do almost anything that you set your mind to. there's a few examples of those individuals here on the site who may/may not chime in with much more sage advice and thoughts than I can offer you.

Vern


----------



## greentoblue

Similiar to what Michael said, the answer is "Yes", "No" and "maybe".  The Canadian military is a continuous learning institution and we have been way before "life-long learning" became fashionable.  Courses - either being a student on one or teaching on one - as well as tours and exercises, dominate our lives.

Right off the bat you are hindering your potential career because you have not even applied yet.  When applicants apply for any military trade they get merit listed against the number of vacancies that may be open or opening.  This list is NOT first come, first served so even if you apply ahead of someone else, that other person could be listed higher than you and get a conditional offer.  Obviously one of the factors for merit listing is high school completion.  And right now some combat arms trades such as infantry have a waiting list for enrollment.  In other words you being successfully enrolled into the military is not a guarantee and already shows a gap in your critical thinking skills if you quit high school in the belief that you will be entering military service.

Another fact is that experiences from the Cdn, US and British militaries is that recruits who have high school diplomas or equivalencies absorb training better and are less likely to become administrative burdens.  This is one of the reasons why any recruiter and all the people who have responded to your post so far have urged you to return to school and complete high school.  Throughout a military career a soldier is put through multiple training courses involving a lot of study, attention to detail and not a lot of time to do it.  In reg force basic training alone a recruit must learn military law, administration, the law of armed combat and first aid on top of basic soldier skills like physical training, weapons handling and dress and deportment.  

Now assuming you are successful in entering the forces, your career progression is trade dependent.  For example completion of all your required basic, trades and speciality courses as well as performance in caring out your duties is what concerns your chain of command.  However, if you failed to absorb the basic knowledge taught in high school that can show in your performance and hinder your career.  I have seen soldiers fail courses such as mortars, signals and recce because they did not have the basic math skills to master the materiel.  I've also seen excellent soldiers receive relatively low potential for promotion scores because their literacy was poor and it affected their ability to teach courses.

Another fact to consider is that most soldiers who stay in the military for a 20-25 year career do not stay combat arms.  When they decide to stay in the military but look for another trade it is similiar to joining up because they are merit listed for positions.  Once again, that lack of a high school diploma places you at a disadvantage compared to others seeking the same trade.

In short, go get that diploma.  Its worth it in the end.


----------



## mainse-event

Thanks everybody, this has cleared up alot of questions I had. I will continue with my home schooling when i join the army. To clear something up, I didn't dropout because of my inability to learn, I dropped out because I wasn't challenged at all and I felt I was wasting my time on something that could be done at any point of my life.


----------



## Jarnhamar

What courses were you taking in school. Were they Basic. general, advanced?


----------



## Journeyman

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I will continue with my home schooling when i join the army.


I think you may still be missing part of the equation.

As noted in several other threads, your career choice (Combat Arms) is closed to new recruits until _at least_ April.
     +
To get in whenever it does re-open you need to be competitive, which means more than meeting the bottom end of the recruiting standard.
     +
To be more marketable to the recruiters, you should have completed, _or be in the process of completing_, high school.
     +
_If_ your trade of choice opens April 1st, and _if_ your recruiting process fits you in with the growing backlog of applicants, and _if_ you're fortunate enough to make the cut, you will still not be departing for Recruit School on April 2nd
     =
Go back to school now. 
If a local school cannot fit you in starting with the January term, find a distance-learning/night school option. Use this time you have effectively.


----------



## mainse-event

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I think you may still be missing part of the equation.
> 
> As noted in several other threads, your career choice (Combat Arms) is closed to new recruits until _at least_ April.
> +
> To get in whenever it does re-open you need to be competitive, which means more than meeting the bottom end of the recruiting standard.
> +
> To be more marketable to the recruiters, you should have completed, _or be in the process of completing_, high school.
> +
> _If_ your trade of choice opens April 1st, and _if_ your recruiting process fits you in with the growing backlog of applicants, and _if_ you're fortunate enough to make the cut, you will still not be departing for Recruit School on April 2nd
> =
> Go back to school now.
> If a local school cannot fit you in starting with the January term, find a distance-learning/night school option. Use this time you have effectively.



That's what I said. CONTINUE, my home school. I am currently doing 12u english. Continue.


----------



## mainse-event

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> What courses were you taking in school. Were they Basic. general, advanced?


They were mostly college level, some university(english, history). They weren't challenging at all, but I also thought that most university level classes were going to be to hard for me, like the sciences and maths. I'm in that in between level and it sucks.


----------



## dangerboy

But you also  "I will continue with my home schooling *when i join the army*. " So that sounds like you are not going to finish your education until you join the army, hence our confusion and why people are telling you to stay in school.


----------



## Journeyman

Actually, you said:





			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> I will *continue* with my home schooling *when i join the army*.


"When" being a preposition, which joins "continue" with the clause (in this case temporal), "join the army."

You see, I also joined without having finished highschool. But since then, I've acquired sufficient education and life experience that _my_ attitude is somewhat justified.


----------



## MSEng314

mainse-event said:
			
		

> They were mostly college level, some university(english, history). They weren't challenging at all, but I also thought that most university level classes were going to be to hard for me, like the sciences and maths. I'm in that in between level and it sucks.



If you are not going to do them because you think they are "too hard," you will be in for a big surprise when (if) you get on BMQ.

The things that are hard are usually the ones most worth doing.


----------



## 1feral1

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I have my grade 11 and dropped out of high school because nothing I was learning was relevant to what I wanted to do in life.



I hated school as much as any young guy did, I stuck it out, got my grade 12 (Class of 77)and moved on in life with a graduation certificate I haev used many times on various job applications with NSW Police and NSW Corrections (both of which I was offered employment but declined), and even my application for citizenship here, so don't think you're ever not going to need the basics.

To sum up, go back to school, if not, years later from now you'll wish you would have. There is nothing wrong with getting the minimal requirement for basic credits for grade 12.

Unless you love mininum wage, want to be a mall cop, flip burgers or be a menial labourer, if you don't take to Army life (it is not for everyone), you're buggered.

So take some advice from an old soldier, stay in school. Get an education.

OWDU


----------



## Jarnhamar

I've met a few soldiers who have gotten off work up training to deploy overseas (for various reasons) because they
-Didn't feel the work up training was challenging enough
-Weren't given the respect they deserved as a warrior
-felt they were under employed
-Should have been given more critical jobs/tasks
-Felt their skills were wasted. 

Mainse, if you've felt that your college and university level classes were too easy that you're either
-too smart or;
-full of shit.

Either way. Even if you think certain checks in the box, like say high school diplomas are below you- others won't think that way.

Not having a highschool diploma won't restrict you from joining the infantry but it WILL throw you a curve ball when you attempt to get any kind of employment outside the military.
One a side note, not many dudes join the infantry and 17 and stick with it until 55. Give it some though. 
Another thing to ponder.. 9 times out of 10 when someone is homeschooled and joins the military you can pick them out in a crowd.


----------



## mainse-event

Thanks again guys and yeah, I am not a COMPLETE idiot so I know i'll need it after military life. Some of you seem to think that since I don't have it at the age of 17 I will somehow be unable to get it at a later time in my life, I don't see it that way.


----------



## Michael OLeary

mainse-event said:
			
		

> Thanks again guys and yeah, I am not a COMPLETE idiot so I know i'll need it after military life. Some of you seem to think that since I don't have it at the age of 17 I will somehow be unable to get it at a later time in my life, I don't see it that way.



Many of us just have experience with people who got "too busy" once they joined the Army to add finishing High School to the many other things they were doing or wanted to do.  What you are reading is a reflection of that reality.  Feel free to prove yourself to be one of the few who can do more, since you have already given up on school once.


----------



## mainse-event

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I've met a few soldiers who have gotten off work up training to deploy overseas (for various reasons) because they
> -Didn't feel the work up training was challenging enough
> -Weren't given the respect they deserved as a warrior
> -felt they were under employed
> -Should have been given more critical jobs/tasks
> -Felt their skills were wasted.
> 
> Mainse, if you've felt that your college and university level classes were too easy that you're either
> -too smart or;
> -full of crap.
> 
> Either way. Even if you think certain checks in the box, like say high school diplomas are below you- others won't think that way.
> 
> Not having a highschool diploma won't restrict you from joining the infantry but it WILL throw you a curve ball when you attempt to get any kind of employment outside the military.
> One a side note, not many dudes join the infantry and 17 and stick with it until 55. Give it some though.
> Another thing to ponder.. 9 times out of 10 when someone is homeschooled and joins the military you can pick them out in a crowd.



I'll be honest even though i'm going to have people say "your not right for the army because of this". I have never once done homework or studied for a test in my life, and i have passed every class i have taken above the median. I realize this is terrible and i am ashamed of it, but i am confident that the army will give me the discipline i need because i won't be aloud to slack off.


----------



## mainse-event

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Many of us just have experience with people who got "too busy" once they joined the Army to add finishing High School to the many other things they were doing or wanted to do.  What you are reading is a reflection of that reality.  Feel free to prove yourself to be one of the few who can do more, since you have already given up on school once.



If this is the reality and i don't have the time, ill just wait till i retire from the military and then finish, would be a more up to date and modern education anyways.


----------



## Michael OLeary

mainse-event said:
			
		

> If this is the reality and i don't have the time, ill just wait till i retire from the military and then finish, would be a more up to date and modern education anyways.



Well, it looks like you've got it all figured out, and weren't really looking for any advice here.  Good luck with your application.


----------



## mainse-event

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Well, it looks like you've got it all figured out, and weren't really looking for any advice here.  Good luck with your application.


Well if people could have read my original post more clearly it would have avoided alot of confusion. Going back isn't an option for me, my post was asking a specific question sorry if it seems im unwilling to listen to peoples advice, i didn't come here to get told how much of an idiot i am for dropping out in the first place because beleive me i know.


----------



## Nauticus

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I'll be honest even though i'm going to have people say "your not right for the army because of this". I have never once done homework or studied for a test in my life, and i have passed every class i have taken above the median. I realize this is terrible and i am ashamed of it, but i am confident that the army will give me the discipline i need because i won't be aloud to slack off.



To be honest, I think you should have some level of discipline and organization before you go in. Otherwise, you aren't going to last through BMQ.


----------



## Michael OLeary

mainse-event said:
			
		

> Well if people could have read my original post more clearly it would have avoided alot of confusion. Going back isn't an option for me, my post was asking a specific question sorry if it seems im unwilling to listen to peoples advice, i didn't come here to get told how much of an idiot i am for dropping out in the first place because beleive me i know.




OK, let's recap.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> I have my grade 11 and dropped out of high school because nothing I was learning was relevant to what I wanted to do in life.



How do you know that?  How do you know it won't be relevant to something you want to do later in life?  How do you know it won't be relevant, or supportive in context, in the Army one day?



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> What I am wondering is, if I join the army will my career be forever be hindered by the fact that I don't have this little piece of paper? The army is what I want to do with my life, and I am VERY serious about serving my country and being all I can be, its just a weight on my mind that I might not be able to achieve my full potential as a NCM all because I stupidly left high school.



As you were told, it might have an effect.  That effect may be subtle and something you may not realize until it is far too late to change course. A few missed opportunities because you are not rated as highly among your peers as you might have been can have a significant cumulative effect.  Your mileage may vary - both in effect and in the ability and willingness to acknowledge it.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> Going back is not an option for me, I am enlisting in the spring.



You never explained why going back isn't an option.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> Any thoughts or words of comfort would be appreciated.



You received lots of thoughts, much of it based on personal experiences with others in your situation.  As for words of comfort; sorry, we're not a group hug community. Your CF training, once and if accepted, will not be one either.  We are NOT going to tell you everything will be OK just to make you feel better about your choices.

You asked for advice,.  You got it.  It's not our fault you don't like what you're hearing.


----------



## mainse-event

I think i know my capabilities, i have shown great discipline and determination in other areas of my life that i am passionate about. I'll last through BMQ, and ill post in this thread again when i am done. PEACE, MAINSE EVENT OUT.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Ok to get in the military you have to make yourself the best potential recruit possible. If the CFRC is stuck between two candidates that have identical scores, qualifications etc they will pick the one with the high school diploma. Why? Well to a person that is just assessing you, you have already shown you already have the disposition to quit. Yes we know you find school to not be a challenge but all everyone here is trying to do is help you out. If you want to so callously ignore that help, then your next set of questions will not be so warmly received. Your choice, it does not hurt anyone here on whether or not you get in. But you are ignoring advice from members of the CF and other militaries that have decades of experience. Again, your choice, its not sweat off our backs either way.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I think i know my capabilities, i have shown great discipline and determination in other areas of my life that i am passionate about. I'll last through BMQ, and ill post in this thread again when i am done. PEACE, MAINSE EVENT OUT.




And when, [if] you finish BMQ all you have to do is send me a PM and I'll be more than happy to reopen this for you.


----------



## Edwardzc

Hello all,

              I am currently in grade 12 and graduating this year. I do not have 6 grade 12 U/M courses(because I took co-op for automotive). Am I still allowed to apply for ROTP? Are  the years of obligatory service as an officer? I heard about this a few weeks ago and it may be too late.


----------



## DexOlesa

Yes much too late to enter for this fall. You will have to wait for the 2011-2012 school year.


----------



## Edwardzc

Will they not make exceptions? Are all the slots full?


----------



## wannabe SF member

I can assure you there are quite enough people with finished applications already waiting should a slot free up. I'm afraid you'll have to wait next year


----------



## Rogo

You will also need the 6 U/M credits and preferably 6U.


----------



## Edwardzc

Aww. Depressing.

Okay. Thanks guys.


----------



## SkyHeff

While yes, it is too late to apply for this year, I wouldn't hold off your application because you lack the 6 U/M courses.

If this is something you really want to do, apply in September of this year for the 2011/2012 year. That's the only way you'll know if you're qualified. On a side note, if you're attending university next year, you can still apply for subsidization for years 2-4.


----------



## Edwardzc

Heff18, I thank you for the encouragement.
I did not apply to uni this year(for next year) because I lack the 6 U/M courses and because I was so indecisive. I have applied to college for now and will apply for ROTP next year in September. If I get accepted, I will drop the college course(police foundations) and go on towards my career in the CF.

Thank you all~


----------



## travisvotour

so as of the end of the grade eleven year, my second term average is great. its about 87, but I didnt turn my marks around until the end of the first term. During the first term I went through an "I dont care about school" phase. But then I read about RMC and realized I wanted to do that with my life. So I worked my ass off and got my marks up, and a lot of extra-curicular activites too, but now as im about to finish grade eleven and go into grade 12, im terrified that they wont consider me because of my grade eleven first term marks! What should I do? should I include a letter with my application? or what? will they only look at select classes? or second term only?

Any help or advice. Im desperate and worried! I dont want all the work to be in vain.


----------



## Occam

Since when is improving your marks ever in vain?

Do your best, and stop second-guessing.  You can't change the past, so do what you can about the future.


----------



## mariomike

This link may have some info on the subject:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/23377/post-277818.html#msg277818


----------



## Pokiey

First of all I'll say that I really know very little about the RMC Application process, but I'll give you my two cents:

I really can't see *one* term disqualifying you from being accepted provided you continue to work as hard as you have been and keep your marks up as high as possible.  Also if there is a class (or classes) that you are particularly worried about there is always the summer school or night school option to retake them and improve your marks.

At the end of the day, we all make mistakes and it's up to you how you deal with them.  Keep your eye on the prize and stop stressing so much!


----------



## 40below

Surprising fact is that the averge RMC acceptance grade is lower than you might think. Except for engineering. Those other pillars take time away from studying.


----------



## Alea

travisvotour said:
			
		

> Im desperate and worried! I dont want all the work to be in vain.



Travis,

Desperate is for those who let their lives pass them by and did not (could not) for all sorts of reasons, wake up in time to do better.

Can ANY work done with the heart and efforts be "in vain"? Do you think? 
Don't be desperate and worried. You should just keep on working hard and enjoying it all... even if, yes, I can understand, that you take this to heart. 

Still, NO WORK IS EVER IN VAIN and you are too young to be DESPERATE. 

Take care,
Alea


----------



## fanman

When I applied for Engineering at RMC, they took ALL my grades in high school (from Gr.9 to Gr.11 the current grade I was in while applying) and averaged it. It turned out to be 83%. I as well had a "I don't give a **** about school phase". I was a hardcore gamer that sat in-front of the computer all day long. I basically was in the same situation as you. 

Your application will remain competitive as long as your average is above 75% and you do a lot of extra-curricular activities. 

Don't fret too much, they pay attention to sports, volunteer, part time job, leadership roles, and academics when considering acceptance for ROTP. So if you academics were not too strong, if you made up for it through other means then you have nothing to worry about. 

Don't give up and try not to worry too much!

GL.


----------



## Jp_noble1

Ive been worrying about this. My grade 11 marks were not amazing id probably say maybe 60, but im now in all the courses to take a mechanical engineering degree at rmc but will the mediocre marks from grade 11 destroy any chances i had ?


----------



## runormal

same i printed off my transcript today and im horror of my english marks.
Gr 9  66
gr 10 65
Gr 11 55
Gr 12 (64) Retaking it second semester
Gr 12 Writers class (88) hopefully that will help me. (ECW4U)

Ah well i'm going to do what i can do..

Other then that everything is 70 plus throughout 9-12. Some 80s a few 90s. and in grade 12 when i kicked gear everything was in the 84%+ besides my english and 1 science. 

Now that im on my 5th year i should be able to destroy my average and jump from a 79.5% to a 86%. we will see.. how it all goes down.

I'm a little nervous but i'll have to fix my previous mistakes


----------



## PuckChaser

In my opinion, jumping your average up that far and holding it shows you aren't afraid of hard work and a commitment to improve yourself. Keep the hard work up, and bump your average.


----------



## pudd13

The people that do the selections for ROTP understand that applicants are young, and were very recently young teenagers who may have gone through an "I don't care" stage, and their marks reflect it. They will not turn you down because you had a bad semester. They will love to see that you are improving your marks. However, you also have to consider what you are up against. If there are students who did not have that stage, and had great marks all through high school, they will obviously be more inclined to take that student. 

You are doing the right thing though. Even if you don't get in, you are improving yourself, which is great. That means you will have a good grade 12 year, which means if you don't get in your first try, you can try again, and this time they will recognize that you did turn things around and now you are committed to good schooling. Trying to improve yourself in anyway is not done in vain. It makes you a better person in general, and it only strengthens your application. You would be in a lot more of a pickle if you didn't turn your marks around at all.

My tip to people (especially to people who want to be pilots) is that you shouldn't worry about things you can't change. You should be worried about what you can change. If you think you have poor eyesight, you can't change that. If you had a bad term in the past, you can't change that. But what you can do to make yourself as competitive as possible is do better in school NOW and in the future, and start volunteering or taking leadership positions, or playing more team sports. 

In other words, do everything you can to better yourself in all aspects of life, no matter how small, because everything counts, and everything you give them will be one more reason for them to overlook your bad marks in earlier high school.


----------



## Chilme

As a high school science teacher I was often asked similar questions by my Gr 12 Bio and Chem students.  For that reason I did some research.  In general Post-Secondary institutions only consider (Gr. 12) 4U or 4C courses for averages and individual course marks when considering your application.  The only exception are specific course that may be highly relevant to a particular College program and not offered as a 4U or 4C course.  This is not all that common.  

My advice for you would be to look at the prerequisites for your particular program your interested in (Phone the College if necessary), Kill all your gr.12, and if the college requires a good mark in a particular course, take it again.

Good Luck.


----------



## pudd13

I am not sure that that information applies all that much to the ROTP program Chilme. Although most post-secondary schools weigh grade 12 marks the heaviest, RMC is not most post-secondary schools. The ROTP deadline is usually before any final grade 12 marks from first semester are even out, and for that reason, the ROTP selection board weighs the most recent final marks the heaviest (ie, your Grade 11 and Grade 10 final marks). I understand that they look at your 6 most recent courses with final marks that apply to the program you want to get into, and they take the average of those 6. But, like I said before, you can't change the past. If you are already showing a trend of increased marks, and doing things to beef up the rest of your application, you shouldn't have much to worry about.


----------



## ktong747

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about getting into RMC after graduating from police foundations. I do not have the high school credits needed for university, so I went to college instead. Any chance I can get in assuming I do good in college?

Thanks.


----------



## pudd13

Assuming that you don't intend to "do good" in an English program, then you should be fine, as long as you have the necessary credits and courses to attend university in your home province, as well as the minimum credits and courses required for whatever program you choose at RMC. If you aren't planning to attend RMC, but do civy uni ROTP, then as far as I know the same applies. It doesn't matter if those courses and credits are from high school or from college upgrading. However, they will look at both marks, so if you didn't do well in high school, then you best perform well in college.


----------



## Rogo

Pudd13 considering you aren't even accepted yet let's try not to pick apart a small grammatical error.  It is possible he is English as a second language or made a simple mistake, the majority of people speak this way so if you intend to take a high road don't draw attention to it.

Ktong747 Contact a recruiter to see how going in from say college will affect your application in contrast to going in from Highschool if you had stayed back a year. They will have the best knowledge on the application process.


----------



## pudd13

Fair enough.


----------



## ktong747

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I'll do good enough.


----------



## CorporalMajor

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Are you sure the military is for you
> 
> Max



He's making an effort to correct a mistake (i.e. his lack of effort in the past).  If he now commits to it, works hard and gets good grades in the end, then who cares?

A lot of the best servicepeople I know didn't do smart things when they were in HS.


----------



## 2010newbie

You do realize that you are commenting on Max's post from over three years ago, right?


----------



## Denreyer

right now im a grade 11 student just finishing up my first semester. i heard that rmc looks at your grades from all your years and my grades through 9-10 werent that great, this year ill prob finish with about 70-75%. i was just wondering would there be any chances of me still getting into rmc if i were to finish good in grade 12 and 2nd semester grade 11 with say high 70s low 80s maybe balancing my overall grades in highschool to maybe 75ish. i was planning on doing the reserves this year but cause of my late birthday it was all ready full by the time i applyed so im hoping to get into that soon as possible to get me started.  if i dont get into rmc my other plan was that i would just go in as an NCO in the RCR. anyways just wondering if anyone can give me any thoughts.

Thanks.
Denreyer


----------



## runormal

My grades were a 79.5% average in grade 9 about 72% in grade 10 79% in grade 11 80% in grade 12 and with grade 13 my average should be for grade 12 should be 85%.

I am not accepted or anything, but i am at one of the final phases of the application process, I have an interview tomorrow.

I really think as long as you can maintain a 75% (Althought i'd aim for 80%+) that is all that matters for marks, but really they are looking for well rounded people, who can multi task and still be successful as well as leadership potential


----------



## aesop081

runormal said:
			
		

> I really think as long as you can maintain a 75% .........



The ability to capitalize in the appropriate places wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## pudd13

To say that 75% is all that matters for marks is not true. It CAN be true some years, and can be wrong other years. Some years you aren't competitive if you don't have a 90% average. It really matters on what the rest of the applicant pool is like, and that is impossible to know. The only way to increase your chances, is to increase the quality of your application. Marks are a large part of your application. I would aim as high as you possibly can, don't feel satisfied with 75, 80, 90 or even 95. It shows a lot if you are doing great, but you are still trying to do better.


----------



## Denreyer

Thanks but now that i think about it ill probably just be going into the reg force when i get out of highschool maybe RMC isent right for me, i think i'd probably like it more to as an NCO.


----------



## George Wallace

Denreyer said:
			
		

> Thanks but now that i think about it ill probably just be going into the reg force when i get out of highschool maybe RMC isent right for me, i think i'd probably like it more to as an NCO.



Even NCOs have to be literate.


----------



## Pusser

Denreyer said:
			
		

> right now im a grade 11 student just finishing up my first semester. i heard that rmc looks at your grades from all your years and my grades through 9-10 werent that great, this year ill prob finish with about 70-75%. i was just wondering would there be any chances of me still getting into rmc if i were to finish good in grade 12 and 2nd semester grade 11 with say high 70s low 80s maybe balancing my overall grades in highschool to maybe 75ish. i was planning on doing the reserves this year but cause of my late birthday it was all ready full by the time i applyed so im hoping to get into that soon as possible to get me started.  if i dont get into rmc my other plan was that i would just go in as an NCO in the RCR. anyways just wondering if anyone can give me any thoughts.
> 
> Thanks.
> Denreyer



Please allow me to give you some advice, based on many years of experience.  Learn the meanings of the following words:  spelling, grammar, syntax and punctuation.  Then, learn how these are used and learn to use them.  If the above is any indication of your writing skills, you're future in the CF is limited.  Contrary to popular belief, the growth in use of electronic communications devices and software has not lessened the requirement for writing skills.  In fact, writing skills are more important than ever as computers software is much more demanding of correct input.  It's either right or it's wrong and if it's wrong, it's rejected.  Computers don't really try to guess what you meant to say.

You will not survive at RMC, or any university or college for that matter, without more skill than you have thus far demonstrated.  Even if you decide not to attempt to become an officer, writing skills are still important.  Don't be the subordinate whose work always has to be re-written (not just edited, but completely re-written) by his superior.  If you are that subordinate, your chances of progression are very slim.  Get thee to an English teacher and get some help!  You'll be glad you did.


----------



## Nostix

Pusser said:
			
		

> If the above is any indication of your writing skills, *you're* future in the CF is limited.



Tsk. Tsk.


----------



## Denreyer

Pusser i was just asking for advice, i dont think i was trying to impress anyone with spelling and grammar when i was writing it.


----------



## Denreyer

Honestly I can't see why all of you must criticize my post for the bad the punctuation, like I said before I was merely just asking advice on what to do. Also, I've been talking to alot of officers lately and honestly and its sounds pretty boring to me. soo whatever that was why I was thinking of going NCO now. So thanks and no thanks


----------



## acooper

Denreyer, I'm going to put it nicely before a mod steps in and puts you on the warning ladder...

Your spelling, grammar, syntax, punctuation, etc, matter on this site BECAUSE YOU AGREED TO USE THEM PROPERLY when you signed up for your account. If you can't follow simple directions now, why would any of us think you can in the CF? You piss and moan about what Pusser said, but you could end up working for him, or another member of this site, someday. Do you really want to make such a terrible first impression? If you think it doesn't matter, I suggest you wait on applying to the CF, as I believe you will not be happy with the process, or the outcome.


----------



## Denreyer

Its just fustrating that I just quickly made this account to just post that one question and still people like you are coming along just to criticize.


----------



## George Wallace

Denreyer said:
			
		

> Its just fustrating that I just quickly made this account to just post that one question and still people like you are coming along just to criticize.



Get used to it.  You have a lot to learn, and if you maintain a "What the F do you know" or "I am the center of the known universe" attitude, you will be butting heads with people rather than getting any benefit of their knowledge and experience.

It has been stated too many times on this site, to people too lazy to read the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines when they join, that we are maintaining a "professional" site here where people are expected to post in a "professional manner" which means the use of correct English, spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.  If you don't want to follow the rules you supposedly agreed to, you are just as welcome to visit some other site that may put up with your attitude and MSM speak.  Be warned, that a poor attitude reflected here, and in the CF, will most assuredly result in your expulsion.  

For your consideration.

GW


----------



## aesop081

Denreyer said:
			
		

> soo whatever that was why I was thinking of going NCO now.



No. You are thinking of joining as an *NCM*.

You are far from becoming an NCO.


----------



## brihard

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> No. You are thinking of joining as an *NCM*.
> 
> You are far from becoming an NCO.



To amplify this for the aspirant recruit, a 'non-commissioned _member_' is exactly that. A member of the forces without a commission. A 'non-commissioned _officer_' is one who has already spent enough time as an NCM to have risen a few ranks and received some training and (hopefully more) mentoring sufficient to make them fit to lead and command other soldiers. You may in time rise to be an NCO, which is not to despised, but you most certainly won't 'just go NCO' in any regiment, never mind The RCR. NCMs are typically your privates and corporals (though a corporal will often enough 'step up' and lead other troops), whereas NCOs are Master Corporals and above. Typically, an NCO will have other more junior troops working for them.


----------



## aesop081

Brihard said:
			
		

> NCMs are typically your privates and corporals (though a corporal will often enough 'step up' and lead other troops), whereas NCOs are Master Corporals and above.



Not quite.

NCM is everyone from Private to CWO.

NCOs are Corporals ( and by extension, Master Corporals) and Sgts.


----------



## derekrobitaille

I used the search tool, but everything I read didn't really answer my question. With some extent, it did, but I need a bit more info.

Okay, so when I was in high school, I was lost and didn't know what I wanted with my life. From this, I didn't really think grade were important so I didn't register for all of these courses like Physics, Chemistry, History, etc. All I registered for was just to meet the minimum requirements. Still, my grades weren't that great and I only had a B average mainly because I didn't have many academic courses. P.E. was pretty much all I cared about and I was excited everyday to go because sports is what I enjoyed. I didn't study a lot, but when I did, it really paid off and it showed because I was on the verge of failing Biology 11 so I studied my butt off and aced the written part of the exam. I passed the class with 50%. I'm not proud of that now that I realize how pathetic it is, but at the time, I was happy just to get by. My English 12 mark was 58% I believe and I only took Applications of Math 11, which I passed with 68 or 69%. When I studied a lot, I actually had the highest mark in the class at one point with 98% then I had troubles with two sections of the class and did poorly on the tests. In 2008, I graduated and now that I look back at it, I am not happy what I have accomplished, but I have to learn from my mistakes and live with them. I moved to Ottawa in Summer of 2009 and went to Algonquin College of Applied Arts and Technology to pursue Photography. It's something I really enjoy, but I wasn't determined enough anymore because I didn't see the point to waste the money knowing I can learn everything at my own home and from friends and other photographers, even the internet. I withdrew in March because I had no chance of passing second semester simply because I flew back home to Vancouver to experience the last couple days of Olympics. In the Summer of 2010, I moved back to Langley, BC, part of Vancouver. During the Photography experience, I did take another English course and I think I passed with 70%. That kind of helps to make up for my grade 12 English, but it's not the same. My GPA at Algonquin was just over 2 - 2.5 because I lost complete interest in the program. I regret not trying there as well. Now I am here in University taking five classes and I am trying my best to keep up with the course load and I hope I do better. I mainly have troubles with determination. I'm still kind of lost so this is why I don't really have determination and aspiration to do well at school because I am not sure what I want to do, but lately I keep telling myself to apply for the Canadian Forces.

This leads me to this. I know certain areas in the CF's require certain grades or education, but the one's I am interested in don't really require it. I am interested in:

Aerospace Control Operator
Air Weapons Systems Technician
Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator
Aircraft Structures Technician
Aviation Systems Technician

and a couple more.

Will the recruiters decline me just because of my high school grades? I sure hope not because I have one heck of a story to tell and I am definitely capable of doing well. I am really lost and really need a wake up call and a step in the right direction and I feel this is what I want to do and I have been considering this for a couple years now. Now that I look back, I have been interested in the forces for quite some time. I worry a lot and think I would get declined for certain reasons. It's tough staying positive knowing you didn't do good in school.

Oh yeah, I have never smoked and never engaged in drugs, EVER! I have absolutely nothing to hide so my honesty, willingness to try and stories may possibly make the recruiters think I'm a good applicant.

Thanks for reading this and sorry if this has been posted before.


----------



## aesop081

derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> because I have one heck of a story to tell



Everyone has "one heck of a story to tell"

It doesnt matter.

You either meet entry requirements for your chosen trade or you don't.

If you meet them, you get to *potentialy* join the CF in that capacity. Certain trades have very few vacancies so the more competitive you are...........


----------



## derekrobitaille

I understand. Why is it only you can apply for three trades? Say you somehow aren't eligible for the trades you applied for due to the CFAT test, can you choose another trade from the list? Also, if a position has been taken, can the recruiters offer you another job instead?


----------



## George Wallace

derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> I understand. Why is it only you can apply for three trades? Say you somehow aren't eligible for the trades you applied for due to the CFAT test, can you choose another trade from the list? Also, if a position has been taken, can the recruiters offer you another job instead?



Then that would indicate that things haven't changed.



			
				derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> ........... I was lost and didn't know what I wanted with my life.



If you are not qualified for a Trade after you do your CFAT, you will be given the opportunity to pick Trades that you do qualify for.  If you don't qualify for any Trades, perhaps it is an indication that you need to go back to school and study so that you can qualify for a Trade.


----------



## Michael OLeary

derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> I'm still kind of lost so this is why I don't really have determination and aspiration to do well at school because I am not sure what I want to do, but lately I keep telling myself to apply for the Canadian Forces.



Before you go and talk to the Recruiter, there's something else you need to think about.

Do not be misled by all those Hollywood depictions of army training as endless days of obstacle courses, throwing grenades, firing ranges and patrolling in swamps by night. The other part they don't show, which applies to every trade, and especially to some of those technical trades you seem to be interested it, is the amount of time military recruits and trained personnel spend in the classroom.  There will be many hours of classroom lectures (some of them not very exciting at all), taking of notes, studying those notes, and taking both practical and written tests.  The difference is you don't get to slack off and hope to cram for the final to bring your mark up.  We require you to pass every test on the first try, and there will be hoops to jump through to get a second chance.  After a few failing test scores you may find you have failed a course because of a "lack of determination." Losing that determination during a course could find you back on the street wondering what to do with your life.  Choose carefully.


----------



## derekrobitaille

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Before you go and talk to the Recruiter, there's something else you need to think about.
> 
> Do not be misled by all those Hollywood depictions of army training as endless days of obstacle courses, throwing grenades, firing ranges and patrolling in swamps by night. The other part they don't show, which applies to every trade, and especially to some of those technical trades you seem to be interested it, is the amount of time military recruits and trained personnel spend in the classroom.  There will be many hours of classroom lectures (some of them not very exciting at all), taking of notes, studying those notes, and taking both practical and written tests.  The difference is you don't get to slack off and hope to cram for the final to bring your mark up.  We require you to pass every test on the first try, and there will be hoops to jump through to get a second chance.  After a few failing test scores you may find you have failed a course because of a "lack of determination." Losing that determination during a course could find you back on the street wondering what to do with your life.  Choose carefully.


 Yes, I found this out from watching the BMQ videos. It's different here since there aren't any civilian distractions. You are also encouraged by everyone to to good unlike here in University. All they care about here is taking your money.


----------



## derekrobitaille

Oh yeah, when the recruiters do the selection process, do they choose the best candidates just from the people who have applied at the recruiting center or do they get together somehow and pick the top candidates out of the whole country. It confuses me how it works since People all over the country are applying for the same trade(s).


----------



## lethalLemon

It's the whole country - it's a Federal organization.

CFRCs are only there to bring people in; and then take a fine-tooth comb to the applicants and only choose the best/most competitive.

Go to the recruiting centre is really the only option - you can get the best answers there. It doesn't cost anything - so go for it... but heed the warnings: there are no free rides and it's not the glory and grace that media has brainwashed people into believing (although... I've always loved the Army, doesn't help that I'm 1: Crazy 2: raised in an Army family  ;D )

If you're looking for money - this is not the place.
You should be doing it for things like - Selfless service to your nation and stuff like that.

my  :2c:


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> It's different here since there aren't any civilian distractions.



I don`t know `bout that,........I always very much enjoyed my "civilian distractions". :blotto:

Its not like you get whisked away to some kind of "Monk-like" existence.......


----------



## derekrobitaille

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I don`t know `bout that,........I always very much enjoyed my "civilian distractions". :blotto:
> 
> Its not like you get whisked away to some kind of "Monk-like" existence.......


 Well, I meant like there isn't any video games in BMQ and I don't think you are allowed to drink alcohol. I don't drink anyways, but tv, computers and video games can be pretty distracting.


----------



## Nauticus

derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> Yes, I found this out from watching the BMQ videos. It's different here since there aren't any civilian distractions. You are also encouraged by everyone to to good unlike here in University. All they care about here is taking your money.



Don't blame the university for your inability to succeed in one. Students are guided through high school, and there's still a lot of support in college. University students require a lot more determination because they are left to their own devices and they do their own thing, with the expectation that they will be successful.



			
				derekrobitaille said:
			
		

> Well, I meant like there isn't any video games in BMQ and I don't think you are allowed to drink alcohol. I don't drink anyways, but tv, computers and video games can be pretty distracting.



There are video games at BMQ located in the lounge/bar area. You also can drink alcohol.

Don't waltz into the Canadian Forces expecting that they will force you to succeed by taking away all your distractions and suddenly making you more determined. That just isn't going to happen.

Success and failure in the military is largely based on _you_ - if you have determination problems and a history of failure prior to the army, without _you_ making proper adjustments, there's no reason that it won't happen again in the Forces.


----------



## infantryian

Nauticus said:
			
		

> Don't blame the university for your inability to succeed in one.



...I don't know, there are some pretty bad tenured professors out there.

Although I do agree with you 100% that anyone could pass it if they want it bad enough, without blaming someone else.


----------



## Nauticus

infantryian said:
			
		

> ...I don't know, there are some pretty bad tenured professors out there.
> 
> Although I do agree with you 100% that anyone could pass it if they want it bad enough, without blaming someone else.


Of course there are bad professors. It's just convenient that every person who felt they would succeed in university, failed, and now feels that they will succeed in the Canadian Forces has experienced bad professors.


----------



## Kazper

Hey everyone, just a quick question. I was wanting to know if the Canadian Forces recognized  the G.E.D as an equivalent to a high school diploma? I have been told from some people yes , and others no. so I am hoping to get a straight answer as too is it yes or no? As it stands it would be a perk for me as I have been working towards getting my G.E.D for the soul purpose of joining the C.F. as a non commissioned member, but if it is the case that is recognized as equivalent than I would be very much more interested in going for my officers training.




"FACTA NON VERBA"


----------



## dangerboy

Kazper said:
			
		

> I was wanting to know if the Canadian Forces recognized  the G.E.D as an equivalent to a high school diploma? I have been told from some people yes , and others no. so I am hoping to get a straight answer as too is it yes or no?



Have you asked your local recruiting centre?  They are the only answer that matters as it does not matter what 100 random unknown people on the internet tell you; if the recruiting centre says the opposite, that is they answer they are going by.


----------



## bdb1231

NCS_Eng said:
			
		

> Its true that grades aren't everything. During my time at charm school I had a good chat with one of the members of the selection committee and he said they look at everything including the usuals like grades, leadership potential and extracurriculars. What surprised me was that a weighting was used depending on what province the applicant was from (IE a 90% in Math from Ont is given more/less weight than a 90% from say, Nova Scotia). This weighting was based on historical failure rates and provincial averages. Furthermore the selection board tries to maintain a relatively good spread of cadets thats in line with Canadian demographics. This isn't a quota system per se, just that they try to maintain a 30% from X province, 10% from Y province type of spread. There are no hard-caps. The percentage of applications received from each province tended to fall within these boundries naturally anyway. Finally they try and maintain a "good" ratio of men/women. Due to the numbers involved, this was like a 3:1 ratio (when I attended). Given the far lower amount of women that sign up for the program, it stands to reason that all other things being equal (in leadership potential and extracurriculars) someone with a 65% average would get in.
> 
> All this information is dated (lets say, circa 2000), and I'm sure they've refined their entrance criteria and selection process since then but should give you an idea of what they are looking for. If you are a visible minority women from BC with good grades and leadership potential you are in for sure. Not to mention you will be on all the recruiting posters for the next 10 years
> 
> Also feeverte, the place must have really changed since my time if your average history student is working harder than the engineers



Do visible minority women get in CF easier or is it the other way around? Most soldiers I see are not visible minority, does it mean they have lower chance?


----------



## bdb1231

I was just asking.


----------



## George Wallace

bdb1231 said:
			
		

> Do visible minority women get in CF easier or is it the other way around? Most soldiers I see are not visible minority, does it mean they have lower chance?





			
				bdb1231 said:
			
		

> I was just asking.



There are only three minorities in the CF:

Army Green;
Air Force Blue; and 
Navy Blue.

This is Canada, and this question has been answered by the Charter of Human Rights and our government's efforts at Political Correctness.


As for you comments as to "Most soldiers I see are not visible minority" that may lie in the social values of many minority groups who do not see Service to country and in the CF as an option.  The face of the CF is changing slowly to more represent Canadian demographics, but change is not instantaneous.


----------



## breezie

Yes, the whole minority question was kind of offensive, if you make it to RMC you'll see there's a lot of diversity here, which reflects the CF overall. And back on topic, here's a link for anyone wanting to know the base grades, etc that RMC will look at.

http://bctf.ca/bcsca/psi_update_09/CMCS_Handout.pdf

Although the deductions are a little higher now (about $600 for your rations and quarters), the information is pretty relevant - your grades must be as good as they can be to be competitive amongst the other people applying for that year. Also, your grades will almost guaranteed drop by at least 10-15% when you first come to RMC, as you will have less time to study than you may be used to in high school. This is because of all the other demands on your time (squadron duties, military training, sports and athletic training, and second language training). It all takes a toll on your grades until you learn how to juggle your time effectively. Do the best you can at school, be well rounded, and apply. That's all you can do. Good luck!


----------



## PrairieBoy

Very interesting information, Breezie, I thank you for it!

I also would like to add that, according to the RMC website, one must have a 70% average or better in the prerequisite classes for the programme you want to take, as well as an average of 70% or better from your six best classes in Grade 12. For myself, I have an average of 80% for my prerequisites and an average of 83.5% from my six best classes. However, I would like to add the qualifier that I have not yet received word as to whether I am accepted or not! 

As for the question about upgrading marks: My recruiting officer, seeing I had some poor math marks, actually encouraged me to go back to upgrade and then bring in my updated marks transcript. His advice helped me move my Mathematics A30 mark from a 53 to an 80, making my application much more competitive.


----------



## wannabe SF member

breezie said:
			
		

> Yes, the whole minority question was kind of offensive, if you make it to RMC you'll see there's a lot of diversity here, which reflects the CF overall. And back on topic, here's a link for anyone wanting to know the base grades, etc that RMC will look at.
> 
> http://bctf.ca/bcsca/psi_update_09/CMCS_Handout.pdf
> 
> Although the deductions are a little higher now (about $600 for your rations and quarters), the information is pretty relevant - your grades must be as good as they can be to be competitive amongst the other people applying for that year. Also, your grades will almost guaranteed drop by at least 10-15% when you first come to RMC, as you will have less time to study than you may be used to in high school. This is because of all the other demands on your time (squadron duties, military training, sports and athletic training, and second language training). It all takes a toll on your grades until you learn how to juggle your time effectively. Do the best you can at school, be well rounded, and apply. That's all you can do. Good luck!



I must disagree with you on the "your grades will drop 10 to 15% on average" saying cuz it's simply not true. While it might be difficult for some to maintain a steady average during FYOP, it's far from impossible.

We were told the same thing at the start of the year but upon reflecting, it seemed like more of a scare tactic than anything else. Most people managed to keep decent averages without any significant dips, for myself, I actually improved mine during FYOP since it allowed me to seriously focus during the limited time I was given to study.

All in all, just work hard and you'll make it, no secrets there.


----------



## runormal

I would like to retract my post I made earlier, I have yet to declined or Accepted, but all of your marks count, they do a full average from grade 9 - 12, I would shoot for bare minimum of at least  80%, but go as high as possible


----------



## breezie

Inky said:
			
		

> I must disagree with you on the "your grades will drop 10 to 15% on average" saying cuz it's simply not true. While it might be difficult for some to maintain a steady average during FYOP, it's far from impossible.
> 
> We were told the same thing at the start of the year but upon reflecting, it seemed like more of a scare tactic than anything else. Most people managed to keep decent averages without any significant dips, for myself, I actually improved mine during FYOP since it allowed me to seriously focus during the limited time I was given to study.
> 
> All in all, just work hard and you'll make it, no secrets there.




Inky, I know that there are many people who are able to maintain their grades during FYOP and first year, because I was one of them. I also know there are many that can't maintain their normal averages at first, and because no one warned them that might happen, they were really confused and didn't know what to do. If new cadets can keep up their grades as high as they were in high school, that's great. It's just very possible that they may drop, sometimes just for one term, sometimes for their whole RMC career. It's just better if people know that possibility exists, so if something does go horribly pear-shaped in first term, they know why.


----------



## Globemaster77

This has been bugging me awhile, on the RMC website it says your best 6 courses must add up to an average of 70%. So when they say best 6, do they mean 6 best academic courses or any 6 courses in school? So for instance:

Best 6:
socials 
English
Math
Computer programming-non academic
work-experience
French

Like this or only academic courses? In addition, which grade marks are the most important? 11? 12? thanks in advance.


----------



## SupersonicMax

Courses for which you get a mark.  How much cleared can it be ?!


----------



## MattM

This is something I haven't seen posted in the time that I've searched, but hopefully I can get an answer because I'm looking at tendering an application as soon as is reasonable. I'm 25, and I got pretty poor grades throughout high school. This is mostly due to the fact that I had some serious attendance issues when I was in my early to mid teens relating to anxiety and some other stuff that took a long time to work through.

As I finished credits and matured, my grades got better, and I began to get grades in the upper 80s and 90s in some classes. However, at this time my mom got lost her job and got cancer in the same month, so I had to go to work to pay bills. This more or less left me with no real opportunity to finish school and I ended up getting my GED rather than draw out the process of finishing off my high school credits any longer than I already had. She then got cancer a second time, and while she has recovered, she's been out of work for several years now and I've been working full-time to support the both of us (she raised me as a single mom).

I'm a smart person, but the problems I had in my early-mid teens and some of the things that came up in my late teens meant that I never really lived up to my potential. I've had an interest in the armed forces since a speaker came to my high school when I was 15 or so. Currently my only real work experience is working full-time in a retail environment. It's not particularly useful work experience for anything except other retail jobs. I feel kind of trapped and this has me turning to the one career option that has kind of stuck with me for the past 10 years and always seemed like something that would be rewarding. I like working with my hands and would ideally end up in a position like weapons tech (land). I don't want to sound like I'm denigrating the position, but I don't think it's a job that would necessarily have the most stringent academic requirements. Also, I feel like I would do very well on the aptitude test (due to the practice tests I've taken) and could make a good impression in an interview.

But what I'm wondering is if having the grades that I did in high school put me at a severe disadvantage compared to other people? I feel like I have to accept responsibility for not having more self-motivation when I was younger but it bothers me to think that it's about 10 or so years later now and I'm still having to live with the mistakes I made when I was a dumb kid. Is this something that would be a serious negative on my application, or would a high score on the aptitude test and a good interview serve to help smooth that over?

I didn't mean to write so much, but I appreciate any input anyone may have. Thanks.


----------



## dennmu

Sounds like you have some pretty tough life experience, those will make good for the interview. As far as grades, obviously the better you have done, the better your overall score will be. The fact that you graduated is a great thing. I can't compare in your young adult life, but can compare to your highschool life. I like you didn't have the focus. I graded poorly. This didn't keep me from applying. I start in less then two weeks as an AVN. Depending on what you have completed in highschool, some trades may not be available to you. Believe it or not Weapons tech is actually pretty demanding. Most tech jobs have a minimum requirement. your Recruitment office will fill you in with the details. There is no harm in applying , the worse they can say is no. So get your butt in a recruitment office, educate yourself on all the trades, and prep for the CFAT. The CFAT is a beast in itself. I trained by taking an overall IQ test and improving where my weakness was. Best of luck to you, and feel free to ask anymore questions.


----------



## Loachman

The standard advice that we give here, just as dennmu gave, is "see a recruiter", and for good reason.

All that I have to judge you on is your story and writing style.

It seems to me that you have matured considerably since your school days, and you have dealt with some significant situations quite well. Those should count in your favour. Your story was laid out clearly and logically, your grammar was above average, and your spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, and capitalization were all good. We (on this Site and in the CF) like that.

The biggest factor, though, is personal motivation. That will get you through almost anything. Want this enough, and work for it accordingly.

Go and see a recruiter.


----------



## MattM

Thanks for the responses guys. I intend to go to the recruiting office near me on Friday. 

It's a little intimidating reading some of the posts from other people on this board. When I see people who seem just as qualified as me, if not much moreso, waiting months and months without a call, it's kind of discouraging. I'm more or less a normal guy with a normal life. I haven't had a 5 year plan to get into the forces. I haven't done any volunteering, and I wasn't in Cadets or anything like that. I feel confident that I'd excel if I got the chance, and I do believe in myself, but I think my biggest concern is whether or not anyone will feel the same just from looking at the relatively uncompelling application I am able to put forward.


----------



## Habs

MattM said:
			
		

> Thanks for the responses guys. I intend to go to the recruiting office near me on Friday.
> 
> It's a little intimidating reading some of the posts from other people on this board. When I see people who seem just as qualified as me, if not much moreso, waiting months and months without a call, it's kind of discouraging. I'm more or less a normal guy with a normal life. I haven't had a 5 year plan to get into the forces. I haven't done any volunteering, and I wasn't in Cadets or anything like that. I feel confident that I'd excel if I got the chance, and I do believe in myself, but I think my biggest concern is whether or not anyone will feel the same just from looking at the relatively uncompelling application I am able to put forward.



Hey man don't worry about it. I had no volunteer experience and I was never in the Cadets and I got in. I'm anything but exceptional. I'm not exactly experienced in the CF - not by a long shot, but to my understanding each application is different and is case by case... some get in within a few months, some take a few years. I was lucky and only took 2-3 months.

Just perform your best on the tests, and make sure you study for the CFAT! It isn't impossible, but it isn't easy either. And make sure you review your trade(s) and what they entail.

Good luck, PM me with any questions!


----------



## dennmu

MattM said:
			
		

> Thanks for the responses guys. I intend to go to the recruiting office near me on Friday.
> 
> It's a little intimidating reading some of the posts from other people on this board. When I see people who seem just as qualified as me, if not much moreso, waiting months and months without a call, it's kind of discouraging. I'm more or less a normal guy with a normal life. I haven't had a 5 year plan to get into the forces. I haven't done any volunteering, and I wasn't in Cadets or anything like that. I feel confident that I'd excel if I got the chance, and I do believe in myself, but I think my biggest concern is whether or not anyone will feel the same just from looking at the relatively uncompelling application I am able to put forward.



You sound like your a little too hard on yourself. Like I said, I didn't do well in school. I was a chef for years, so I had very little experience other then cooking. Being a chef I had no time for sport activities or community service. This left my pplication pretty dull. That's why they don't always go by paper. Your recruiters will get a feel for who you are, and if you need to spike up your app a bit, they will let you know.  I waited a long time for my postition, but it was also pretty competetive position. Some get positions right away, some take a while. I never had a plan to join the forces either. I was curious, so I asked, and it led me to AVN. Now i am ready for BMQ, and soon after about to join in an adventure that few get to. Believe in yourself! Everything else will fall into place. 

Dennmu


----------



## ken.w2402

MattM said:
			
		

> This is something I haven't seen posted in the time that I've searched, but hopefully I can get an answer because I'm looking at tendering an application as soon as is reasonable. I'm 25, and I got pretty poor grades throughout high school. This is mostly due to the fact that I had some serious attendance issues when I was in my early to mid teens relating to anxiety and some other stuff that took a long time to work through.
> 
> As I finished credits and matured, my grades got better, and I began to get grades in the upper 80s and 90s in some classes. However, at this time my mom got lost her job and got cancer in the same month, so I had to go to work to pay bills. This more or less left me with no real opportunity to finish school and I ended up getting my GED rather than draw out the process of finishing off my high school credits any longer than I already had. She then got cancer a second time, and while she has recovered, she's been out of work for several years now and I've been working full-time to support the both of us (she raised me as a single mom).
> 
> I'm a smart person, but the problems I had in my early-mid teens and some of the things that came up in my late teens meant that I never really lived up to my potential. I've had an interest in the armed forces since a speaker came to my high school when I was 15 or so. Currently my only real work experience is working full-time in a retail environment. It's not particularly useful work experience for anything except other retail jobs. I feel kind of trapped and this has me turning to the one career option that has kind of stuck with me for the past 10 years and always seemed like something that would be rewarding. I like working with my hands and would ideally end up in a position like weapons tech (land). I don't want to sound like I'm denigrating the position, but I don't think it's a job that would necessarily have the most stringent academic requirements. Also, I feel like I would do very well on the aptitude test (due to the practice tests I've taken) and could make a good impression in an interview.
> 
> But what I'm wondering is if having the grades that I did in high school put me at a severe disadvantage compared to other people? I feel like I have to accept responsibility for not having more self-motivation when I was younger but it bothers me to think that it's about 10 or so years later now and I'm still having to live with the mistakes I made when I was a dumb kid. Is this something that would be a serious negative on my application, or would a high score on the aptitude test and a good interview serve to help smooth that over?
> 
> I didn't mean to write so much, but I appreciate any input anyone may have. Thanks.



Another option, may I suggest you consider, is to join the Reserves. You'll still be able to stay by your mother's side and take care of her while gaining valuable military experience for yourself. Regardless, it won't hurt to go see a recruiter ASAP.


----------



## Loachman

MattM said:
			
		

> I think my biggest concern is whether or not anyone will feel the same just from looking at the relatively uncompelling application I am able to put forward.



While our recruiting system is imperfect, it is fairly good at selecting the right people, and probably as good as any recruiting system could be.

There are reasons why there are several different steps in the application process - mainly in order to produce a good appreciation of each applicant.

There are also many factors involved in determining how long applicants wait before being called. The most brilliant applicant in the country could wait for years if he is holding out for an occupation wherein only one slot opens up every four years.


----------



## Miller97

You've got A LOT of life experience here, I can relate to the whole "not so good grades" in high school because I didn't have a solid idea of what exactly I wanted to do and only worked part time jobs and dropped my college education for the army and I haven't looked back since. 

Good Luck


----------



## MattM

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys, I appreciate it.

I don't mean to come across as being too hard on myself. I believe in myself and know that I would do a good job, I'm just trying to think about what someone who isn't familiar with anything about me except what's on paper would think. I was hoping I'd be able to give my application tomorrow but while filling out the paperwork I just had too many things I wanted to ask, so I'll stop in tomorrow, get some help, and apply on Monday.


----------



## Sizzle709

The CF knows that high school grades do not reflect a persons level of intelligence.

http://i.imgur.com/VPqOi.jpg

^ Picture related.

Its all about your aptitude, medical and interview.


----------



## Tollis

No idea how hard they actually look at the highschool grades however id *assume* the CFAT is more important to them.  Just as a bit of encouraging information, im on course with 2 guys that only have GED 1 dropped out in grade 11 the other in grade 9.  We can boost your confidence about the possibilitys but the only way anything happens is by going to your recruitment center and talking to them.


----------



## MattM

Welp, I went to what I THOUGHT was the nearest recruiting centre without checking if it was still there, and sure enough it had been closed down. I checked when I got home, something about budget cuts? Oh well, I called the one in Toronto and got most of the questions I had about my application answered anyway. I'll bring it there on Monday with all the documentation I need.


----------



## bowmanbr012

My average in grade 9,10, 11 were all very low 70 average in total, than my grade 12 marks so far (English - 85, kine - 83, business leadership - 80) I am taking adv functions, world history and a yearbook class which is a U level course. I plan on finishing with a mid 80 average for my grade 12 marks. I have played and volunteered for many sporting events throughout my high school career. I dont really have any experience with the Canadian forces in any way. I am wondering if i even have a legit chance to get in the RMC for business administration? If no is there any thing i could do to get in?  ???http://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/huh.gif


----------



## bowmanbr012

My average in grade 9,10, 11 were all very low 70 average in total, than my grade 12 marks so far (English - 85, kine - 83, business leadership - 80) I am taking adv functions, world history and a yearbook class which is a U level course. I plan on finishing with a mid 80 average for my grade 12 marks. I have played and volunteered for many sporting events throughout my high school career. I dont really have any experience with the Canadian forces in any way. I am wondering if i even have a legit chance to get in the RMC for business administration? If no is there any thing i could do to get in?


----------



## JorgSlice

http://www.rmc.ca/adm/hsgchss-deses-eng.asp

Read this. Those are the requirements you need to meet at the minimum.


----------



## brihard

Only one way to find out. Apply. Nobody here can forecast your chances of getting into RMC because we know only what you have told us about yourself and nothing about any of the other applicants.

RMC is very competitive. Have backup plans. You can also consider applying for ROTP (subsidized education in exchange for service) at civilian universities; it's similar enough without all the crap that comes with going to RMC.


----------



## George Wallace

Are you really sure you want to apply for the Business Administration Department instead of the Department of Redundant Redundancies?


----------



## Phoebe

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Are you really sure you want to apply for the Business Administration Department instead of the Department of Redundant Redundancies?



Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure General Natynczyk graduated with a Bachelors degree in Business Administration.

Bowmanbr012, apply, it's simple as that. You're grades seem to suit the standards. Keep up the sports and volunteering. There is plenty of people who come to RMC with out any prior military experience. No one who applies is ever one hundred percent likely to get in. There is too many variables to determine your likelihood. 

Do what I did, apply and prepare yourself for both results. If you're accepted, congratulations, if not, hey, you tried. I personally thought I had no shot of being accepted since I lacked a high standard of physical fitness. In the end, my highschool marks were deemed impressive as well as my volunteering and extra-curricular activities. I was accepted either way. Like I said, too many variables. 

Good luck!


----------



## George Wallace

Phobos said:
			
		

> Please correct me if I'm wrong ..........



I guess that went right over your head.  The OP has posted the same question multiple times, only changing the wording of his question slightly.  This has nothing to do with what the former CDS graduated with.


----------



## CareTaker

Hello everyone, In grade 9 and 10 i got what most people would call "low" marks, I got anywhere from 50,60 and as high as 70%. I am currently in Grade 11 and I have put in much more effort into school getting two 80% an two 70%. But I'm afraid that the CF will not be satisfied with my grades. My Physical fitness is very high and I have several hundred volunteer hours(If it matters). Will the Cf look away from the bad grades and give me a opportunity? or will they just not give me an opportunity because my past grades are low?


----------



## Double-R

Your grades are only one aspect of your application.  The fact you sorted yourself out and began to apply yourself in school will help.  It will come down to what trade you are applying for, the specific qualifications for that trade, and how you merit against your peers for x number of openings.


----------



## CareTaker

Thanks for your input. i really appreciate it


----------



## DAA

You will never know, until you apply!!!  Nevertheless, you need to complete your current education (ie; Gr 12)!  Some occupations in the CF will require that you have certain High School Courses, especially when it comes to the Maths.  You may want to go down and speak with your local Recruiting Centre just to get an idea of choices for future employment and what their requirements are.

If you have something specific in mind that you want to do, you need to speak with them first.  Another option would be to consult with the Guidance Counsellor at your school who should be able to help.


----------



## mariomike

CareTaker said:
			
		

> Will the Cf look away from the bad grades and give me a opportunity? or will they just not give me an opportunity because my past grades are low?



A couple of discussions you may find helpful.

Applying to the forces with poor grades  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107093.0

Grades  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98889.0
"Will the recruiters decline me just because of my high school grades?"


----------



## Globemaster77

Hi guys, just a quick question. I was asking my recruiter/ friends about this, and got mixed answers.

When RMC is calculating your average, I was told that they calculate your average from grade 10~12 and then average it.
so if your average throughout these grades were: 90 , 86, 86, it would be those 3 added then divided by 3.

A friend of mine told me that her recruiter said it was grade 11 marks which were the most important (weighed most heavily).
But you would think that grade 12 marks would be the most important?

Does anyone have accurate information on this?


----------



## DAA

Globemaster77 said:
			
		

> I was asking my recruiter/ friends about this, and got mixed answers.



Your Recruiter is definitely not in a position to answer this question and should tell you that.  Academic assessments and calculations of GPA are done by RMC Admissions and no one else.....

You would need to contact them to have your questions answered.


----------



## Globemaster77

So I spoke to a recruiter recently and I found out that during the selection process, only Gr 10 and 11 marks will be used. They can only take completed final grades, meaning gr 12 marks will not be significant during the selection process. In case anyone was curious.


----------



## dcs

Unless it has changed in the last year it is as stated grades 10 - 12.  Sons both currently at RMC (in first and fourth year) were both told this and what the average was that was going forward. You should ask the recruiting centre or registrar at RMC if unsure or want to know when it is applicable. (Assume that as both sons were told that they will tell you, but that may not be the case)   They are looking for consistent strong performance not someone who can turn it on only when they feel required.

They were also asked for their first term grade 12 report card, which unless you are in a non-semestered school for all courses will have some final grade 12 marks... and were told that they look at the others as well as half way through the year although do not go into the average.

Not sure how it is done if you have extra courses... if they use those required for your selected degree and the best number to a total of ??    Or if all used for every year. If you have any question with this I recommend that you contact the registrar at RMC and ask. 

It is RMC that decides so they would be the best place to seek a definite answer if you need one.


----------



## Globemaster77

dcs said:
			
		

> Unless it has changed in the last year it is as stated grades 10 - 12.  Sons both currently at RMC (in first and fourth year) were both told this and what the average was that was going forward. You should ask the recruiting centre or registrar at RMC if unsure or want to know when it is applicable. (Assume that as both sons were told that they will tell you, but that may not be the case)   They are looking for consistent strong performance not someone who can turn it on only when they feel required.
> 
> They were also asked for their first term grade 12 report card, which unless you are in a non-semestered school for all courses will have some final grade 12 marks... and were told that they look at the others as well as half way through the year although do not go into the average.
> 
> Not sure how it is done if you have extra courses... if they use those required for your selected degree and the best number to a total of ??    Or if all used for every year. If you have any question with this I recommend that you contact the registrar at RMC and ask.
> 
> It is RMC that decides so they would be the best place to seek a definite answer if you need one.



Thanks for this. My interviewer told me that during the selection process, they will use your grade 10-11 grades as grade 12 isn't completed yet. They want your final grade 12 marks, but it will not have a massive impact on your selection as all the offers would have been sent out already.


----------



## Alex.Landry

They will use your grade 10, 11 and 12 marks from first semester, as would any other university that doesn't use the early acceptances method. 

They will also look at your grade 9 marks and see the progression made between then and now, as well as your entire high school curve. 

However, as I say in ever post about academics, they aren't the only important area.


----------



## Sharp

I'm a high school drop out. Reached the end of Grade 12, shy of a few credits. Haven't been to school in 3 years.
Do I have a future in the Forces or not?

Here's a better question:
If I were to be, by some magical chance, accepted into the forces (specifically the Army) is there any possibility of getting a job other than standard infantry?


----------



## Tape

Possibly; but you have to remember: you're going to be competing against other applicants who may have better credentials. In my opinion, you should finish High school and then apply to have a better chance. 

Take a look at the Forces site, there is a list of trades to look at.


----------



## Sharp

Tape said:
			
		

> Possibly; but you have to remember: you're going to be competing against other applicants who may have better credentials. In my opinion, you should finish High school and then apply to have a better chance.
> 
> Take a look at the Forces site, there is a list of trades to look at.



Thanks for the reply.

I do however have the option to take part in something called "ILC". From what I'm told, it's online high school courses spread out across a personal time span (meaning you take as much time as you want).
I can check into it more and get those remaining credits if its a serious drawback in my ability to join.


----------



## Tape

Sharp said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I do however have the option to take part in something called "ILC". From what I'm told, it's online high school courses spread out across a personal time span (meaning you take as much time as you want).
> I can check into it more and get those remaining credits if its a serious drawback in my ability to join.



No problem! By the way, how many credits do you still need to graduate?


----------



## mariomike

Sharp said:
			
		

> If I were to be, by some magical chance, accepted into the forces (specifically the Army) is there any possibility of getting a job other than standard infantry?



Select all the Education levels that you have completed to view the jobs that you are eligible for.
http://www.forces.ca/en/jobexplorer/browsejobs-70

As mentioned, eligible to apply for does not necessarily mean you will get the job.


----------



## Sharp

Tape said:
			
		

> How many credits do you need to graduate?



Unfortunately I'm unable to give you an accurate number as it's been quite a long time since I've last been in school. If I'm not mistaken, it's probably 3.


----------



## Sharp

mariomike said:
			
		

> Select all the Education levels that you have completed to view the jobs that you are eligible for.
> http://www.forces.ca/en/jobexplorer/browsejobs-70
> 
> As mentioned, eligible to apply for does not necessarily mean you will get the job.



Thanks for the reply.

Here are my options. Suggestions?


----------



## Tape

Sharp said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I'm unable to give you an accurate number as it's been quite a long time since I've last been in school. If I'm not mistaken, it's probably 3.



That's not a lot of credits. One course is like a credit for you, right? 

If you plan on doing "ILC" then you should do some volunteering and maybe work too. So when you decide to join the Forces, your application will stand out more. 



			
				Sharp said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Here are my options. Suggestions?



Choose the one you're interested in, not have someone choose for you. There are videos in each trade to show you what they do.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I'm unable to give you an accurate number as it's been quite a long time since I've last been in school. If I'm not mistaken, it's probably 3.



You should most definitely get these credits and get your high school diploma. Getting into the Forces is incredibly competitive these days and not having a high school diploma could/would be a large disadvantage to you.


----------



## Sharp

Tape said:
			
		

> That's not a lot. One course is like a credit for you, right?
> 
> If you plan on doing "ILC" then you should do some volunteering and maybe work too. So when you decide to join the Forces, your application will stand out more.



At the moment I do work. Making that minimum wage ($10.25/hr) from the typical 9 am to 5 pm.
Volunteering is something I'm kind of forced to do, since it's a requirement to graduate. I need to look into that some more (thank you for indirectly reminding me).



			
				Goose15 said:
			
		

> You should most definitely get these credits and get your high school diploma. Getting into the Forces is incredibly competitive these days and not having a high school diploma could/would be a large disadvantage to you.



I'll look into it. Seems to be around $150-ish per course (per credit).
http://www.ilc.org/school/cou_how_courses_work.php

Thanks for the advice, guys. Looks like I'm going back to school, sort of.
I was an idiot for dropping out. I hope I can redeem myself.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Here are my options. Suggestions?



Choose something that you would be happy doing of 20-25 years. Do NOT choose something just to get in.


----------



## Sharp

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Choose something that you would be happy doing of 20-25 years. Do NOT choose something just to get in.



That's an obvious. I was just asking if anyone had any feedback or experience in terms the roles listed in the image.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> That's an obvious. I was just asking if anyone had any feedback or experience in terms the roles listed in the image.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.



There are details about all the trades throughout the forums. Do you have any specific questions? Because with all the above occupations that is a very broad question.


----------



## Tape

Sharp said:
			
		

> At the moment I do work. Making that minimum wage ($10.25/hr) from the typical 9 am to 5 pm.
> Volunteering is something I'm kind of forced to do, since it's a requirement to graduate. I need to look into that some more (thank you for indirectly reminding me).
> 
> I'll look into it. Seems to be around $150-ish per course (per credit).
> http://www.ilc.org/school/cou_how_courses_work.php
> 
> Thanks for the advice, guys. Looks like I'm going back to school, sort of.
> I was an idiot for dropping out. I hope I can redeem myself.



No problem, dude. Hope it all goes well for you. We all make mistakes and it's not the end of world. You still have time to improve.


----------



## Sharp

Goose15 said:
			
		

> There are details about all the trades throughout the forums. Do you have any specific questions? Because with all the above occupations that is a very broad question.



While you're here, I might as well ask.

I'm not looking for the easiest or the hardest, in fact, I'm not looking for anything based on difficulty.
My question is, which profession is the most rewarding? I'm not talking about monetary rewards. I'm talking about that feeling you get when you changed the world in one way or another. All hippie jokes aside.
Things like "Postal Clerk" doesn't seem to provide any usefulness (to me). Not that I'm mocking whomever works in that profession.



			
				Tape said:
			
		

> No problem, dude. Hope it all goes well for you. We all make mistakes and it's not the end of world. You still have time to improve.



Thanks. It's never too late for anything.


----------



## Tape

Sharp said:
			
		

> While you're here, I might as well ask.
> 
> I'm not looking for the easiest or the hardest, in fact, I'm not looking for anything based on difficulty.
> My question is, which profession is the most rewarding? I'm not talking about monetary rewards. I'm talking about that feeling you get when you changed the world in one way or another.
> Things like "Postal Clerk" doesn't seem to provide any usefulness (to me). Not that I'm mocking whomever works in that profession.



Any job can be rewarding as long you like what you're doing. In my opinion, becoming a member of the Canadian Forces regardless of what trade is rewarding.


----------



## Goose15

Tape said:
			
		

> Any job can be rewarding as long you like what you're doing. In my opinion, becoming a member of the Canadian Forces regardless of what trade is rewarding.


 :goodpost:

What Tape said is exactly right. Apart from the fact serving your country is rewarding, what is rewarding is very relative. Members of the Combat Arms went to Haiti but so did other occupations. Postal Clerks (whom you mentioned) love the thanks and happiness they provide by getting the soldiers, sailors and airmen/women letters from home. Vehicle Techs find it rewarding fixing a vehicle that will get their friends home safely. So there truly are rewards everywhere.


----------



## Sharp

Goose15 said:
			
		

> :goodpost:
> 
> What Tape said is exactly right. Apart from the fact serving your country is rewarding, what is rewarding is very relative. Members of the Combat Arms went to Haiti but so did other occupations. Postal Clerks (whom you mentioned) love the thanks and happiness they provide by getting the soldiers, sailors and airmen/women letters from home. Vehicle Techs find it rewarding fixing a vehicle that will get their friends home safely. So there truly are rewards everywhere.



I guess I had my sights on Infantry, even though I was trying to avoid it.
I have an interest in long range rifles (ie. snipers). I hope that interest doesn't say anything about me.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> I guess I had my sights on Infantry, even though I was trying to avoid it.



Why were you trying to avoid Infantry?



			
				Sharp said:
			
		

> I have an interest in long range rifles (ie. snipers). I hope that interest doesn't say anything about me.



No, not at all. Just be ready to work your ass off, as sniper is a specialization that you will have to earn a training spot for.


----------



## Sharp

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Why were you trying to avoid Infantry?
> 
> No, not at all. Just be ready to work your *** off, as sniper is a specialization that you will have to earn a training spot for.



I was kind of trying to avoid infantry because I guess I watched too many movies; I didn't want to be a typical footman.
I'm not prepared yet, but I'm able to work like crazy to be able to do what I need to do.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> I was kind of trying to avoid infantry because I guess I watched too many movies; I didn't want to be a typical footman.
> I'm not prepared yet, but I'm able to work like crazy to be able to do what I need to do.



Well if you have interest in Infantry but are looking for something a little different, check out Combat Engineer. 

PS: Be careful with saying things like "typical footman" as no CAF member is a typical person.


----------



## Sharp

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Well if you have interest in Infantry but are looking for something a little different, check out Combat Engineer.
> 
> PS: Be careful with saying things like "typical footman" as no CAF member is a typical person.



I didn't know I was offending anyone (sorry in advance).

Also, I shouldn't even be talking about jobs yet. I haven't even been accepted yet. Soon... soon.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> I didn't know I was offending anyone (sorry in advance).
> 
> Also, I shouldn't even be talking about jobs yet. I haven't even been accepted yet. Soon... soon.



All is well, just giving you a heads up.

But yes you should be thinking about occupations, as you apply to occupations (3 per application) not the environment.


----------



## Tape

Sharp said:
			
		

> I didn't know I was offending anyone (sorry in advance).
> 
> Also, I shouldn't even be talking about jobs yet. I haven't even been accepted yet. Soon... soon.



No worries. Just do some research on this site and as well the Forces site. Both of these sites provide a lot of information, I tend to read threads on my spare time, and maybe you'll find something you'll be interested in from reading it.


----------



## Sharp

Goose15 said:
			
		

> All is well, just giving you a heads up.
> 
> But yes you should be thinking about occupations, as you apply to occupations (3 per application) not the environment.





			
				Tape said:
			
		

> No worries. Just do some research on this site and as well the Forces site. Both of these sites provide a lot of information, I tend to read threads on my spare time, and maybe you'll find something you'll be interested in from reading it.



I thank you for the solid advice. Unfortunately I have work in the morning and this is my goodbye for the night.


----------



## Goose15

Sharp said:
			
		

> I thank you for the solid advice. Unfortunately I have work in the morning and this is my goodbye for the night.



You're very welcome, good luck! :cheers:


----------



## PMedMoe

Sharp said:
			
		

> I'll look into it. Seems to be around $150-ish per course (per credit).
> http://www.ilc.org/school/cou_how_courses_work.php



$150 per course?  I'd do some more searching.  There's plenty of "work at your own pace" high school courses that are free (except for possibly a small fee when you write your tests).  Look for adult education/high school in your area.


----------



## Delaney1986

Don't forget you need to qualify for the trade you want by writing the CFAT (aptitude test). I'm not sure about the specifics for basic education - but getting your high school diploma could never hurt you. Go talk to the recruiters and see what they say. 

Hope everything works out for you!


----------



## sappermcfly

I tend to disagree with some of the other responses. A high school diploma is not required. Don't stress about it. You have enough credits already and as far as competition is concerned, while that may be true, I would say that past health issues are a bigger concern. Doing well on the cfat as well.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Tape said:
			
		

> Any job can be rewarding as long you like what you're doing. In my opinion, becoming a member of the Canadian Forces regardless of what trade is rewarding.



And yet there are people in every single trade that discovered, after the shine of just "becoming a member" wore off, that they were stuck in a trade that didn't do what they thought it did, or that was a bad fit for their personality and preferences. Choosing a trade carefully is important, the problems arise when people think the recruiting video sales job shows everyday life (they rarely do) or when they rely on the opinions of others who may not be like them (hence they made different choices). It doesn't matter how much you enjoy Call of Duty, if that's someone's rationale for wanting to be in the infantry, they're going to have a very different outlook the first time they dig a hole in the rain to sleep in, or get marched to the vehicle hanger for the third time in a week to sweep the place out. The recruiting videos are a good start, but each trade needs to be researched to find the down side, and then to decide if that part is survivable. A smart candidate approaches this with an open mind and looks for a trade that matches their personality.


----------



## Journeyman

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> ...... the first time they dig a hole in the rain to sleep in, or get marched to the vehicle hanger for the third time in a week to sweep the place out...


And there are some negative things too, not just these good bits!   ;D


----------



## Sharp

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> $150 per course?  I'd do some more searching.  There's plenty of "work at your own pace" high school courses that are free (except for possibly a small fee when you write your tests).  Look for adult education/high school in your area.



I must have misread the website. It said ages over 20 pay $40 whereas others pay $100 to $500 depending on whether or not they're in Canada, if they're not a citizen, etc.
Regardless, money isn't an issue here.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Sharp

Delaney1986 said:
			
		

> Don't forget you need to qualify for the trade you want by writing the CFAT (aptitude test). I'm not sure about the specifics for basic education - but getting your high school diploma could never hurt you. Go talk to the recruiters and see what they say.
> 
> Hope everything works out for you!



I went to the closest CFRC a while back, my guess is 3 years ago, I applied for reserves at that moment. It seemed I had passed the CFAT and was able to choose from the 3 jobs that I had selected, however I didn't get beyond that point because I had failed the PT test required at the time. It was most certainly because I was a scrawny little kid at the time. Now I'm older, stronger, and ready. But because of my school related issues (in terms of lack of credits) I'm "legally an idiot" as what some might call it.


----------



## Sharp

sappermcfly said:
			
		

> I tend to disagree with some of the other responses. A high school diploma is not required. Don't stress about it. You have enough credits already and as far as competition is concerned, while that may be true, I would say that past health issues are a bigger concern. Doing well on the cfat as well.



However, in terms of ranking, I guess an education would be recommended.
As far as I can tell, I have no problems with the CFAT. I have no prior medical history that limits my ability to perform any action.

My only concern is education as well as the interview, but that's another story for a different day.

I thank you for your opinion and reply.

And for those who have an issue with the triple post I just made, I'm on my phone in the bathroom. Editing is not an option.


----------



## PMedMoe

Sharp said:
			
		

> I must have misread the website. It said ages over 20 pay $40 whereas others pay $100 to $500 depending on whether or not they're in Canada, if they're not a citizen, etc.
> Regardless, money isn't an issue here.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.



Just saying, if I didn't have to pay, then I wouldn't.  Here is a link for the Toronto District School Board eLearning for those over 18 years of age, not attending a public school: http://schoolweb.tdsb.on.ca/elearning/e-Credit18.aspx


----------



## Sharp

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Just saying, if I didn't have to pay, then I wouldn't.  Here is a link for the Toronto District School Board eLearning for those over 18 years of age, not attending a public school: http://schoolweb.tdsb.on.ca/elearning/e-Credit18.aspx



Thanks for the info. I'll look into it.
What I've done is already paid for the service and filled out the necessary form(s) for ILC this morning. I'm expecting my first unit work within the next week. I'm gonna try this one out first and then work my way towards the service you suggested. I guess I'll share my thoughts on it here or maybe some form of education forum.

The ILC (TVO) building is about 10 minutes away from the Toronto CFRC. I'll head back down there (CFRC) in the near future when I have time to ask for more info in regards to education, etc.

Thank you all for the valuable inputs. I would leave this thread open for anyone who may also be in the same scenario and is looking for more information from a much more definitive source (other people).


----------



## Goose15

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> And yet there are people in every single trade that discovered, after the shine of just "becoming a member" wore off, that they were stuck in a trade that didn't do what they thought it did, or that was a bad fit for their personality and preferences. Choosing a trade carefully is important, the problems arise when people think the recruiting video sales job shows everyday life (they rarely do) or when they rely on the opinions of others who may not be like them (hence they made different choices). It doesn't matter how much you enjoy Call of Duty, if that's someone's rationale for wanting to be in the infantry, they're going to have a very different outlook the first time they dig a hole in the rain to sleep in, or get marched to the vehicle hanger for the third time in a week to sweep the place out.



That is exactly why he said: 


			
				Tape said:
			
		

> Any job can be rewarding as long you like what you're doing. In my opinion, becoming a member of the Canadian Forces regardless of what trade is rewarding



You are definitely right that some people dislike their actual occupations and that is why Tape and I were adamant about finding something you like. Because no occupation will be without its rewards if you enjoy it.



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The recruiting videos are a good start, but each trade needs to be researched to find the down side, and then to decide if that part is survivable. A smart candidate approaches this with an open mind and looks for a trade that matches their personality.



Completely agree. I most certainly have looked for the negatives as well as the positives when researching my occupational preferences. One or two have actually since been eliminated after learning about the day-today stuff as it was not for me.


----------



## Sharp

I think the most universal profession/occupation would probably be infantry. Whether or not if you're operating a LAV, firing mortars, or patching up a wound, infantry seems to touch on every aspect either exceedingly minimally or greatly. Sure there are some things that the infantry doesn't take part in, but it still makes its way through multiple professions.

I guess infantry is the way to go and also one step closer to becoming a sniper.


----------



## Mudshuvel

Education is important. I applied to the military +- 4 years ago with my grade 11 education and no diploma. I had applied to become an ATIS Tech, a trade where part of the training was/is considered to be one of the most difficult courses in the Canadian Armed Forces academically. 

I got up to being nearly merit listed for that trade without my diploma. However, I did go and get my GED not because I had to, but because I wanted to ensure my competitiveness. Maybe I only did it so I could say I did it, I don't know. 

Everyone above is correct with what they're saying. Don't count yourself out. Show initiative and don't just strive for what you think you're qualified for or what would guarantee entry. Right now it may be hardest to get into Infantry based on the lack of combat missions or tours going on. Look at something that if you leave the military, you could bring with you.


----------



## ModlrMike

sappermcfly said:
			
		

> I tend to disagree with some of the other responses. A high school diploma is not required. Don't stress about it. You have enough credits already and as far as competition is concerned, while that may be true, I would say that past health issues are a bigger concern. Doing well on the cfat as well.



A high school diploma may not be "required", but will give you good standing in your merit assessment. Rest assured that others in the applicant pool are doing all they can to enhance their chances - so should you.


----------



## jordandixon3

I was wondering if anyone on here either has a link or could point me in the right direction if I was looking for the specific education requirements for all the occupations? I will explain, I went in to the recruiting office today to add a 3rd occupation choice to my application, I wanted to add Cook. On forces.ca it says that the education requirements for Cooks are Grade 11. I have my high school diploma.  The Clerk at the recruiting office pulled up a document on the computer with all the requirements and said that I need Grade 12 math, which I only have grade 11 Math. Does anyone know if I can get that document with all the exact education requirements?

Thanks


----------



## Goose15

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> I wanted to add Cook. On forces.ca it says that the education requirements for Cooks are Grade 11. I have my high school diploma.  The Clerk at the recruiting office pulled up a document on the computer with all the requirements and said that I need Grade 12 math, which I only have grade 11 Math.
> Thanks



I do not have the "form" you seek but I can quench your confusion though. The requirements on Forces.ca are the bare minimum for every trade (technically the "exact requirements" ...just the lowest required). This means that even if you have have "more" than what is online you may still only be considered an average applicant at best. There is often a fair [keep in perspective] difference between the bare minimum and the ideal candidate. The recruiter may have simply been saving you both some time by not adding in a trade you would not be competitive for.


----------



## jordandixon3

Thanks for the reply, 

I find that a lot of occupations in the CF require more than if I were to do the same thing outside of the military. I have a lot of experience as a cook but because I don't have grade 12 math, I can't do it in the CF, kinda crazy to me but it is what it is...... ???


----------



## KerryBlue

Do you "have a college diploma in food services or culinary arts?"


----------



## Goose15

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply,
> 
> I find that a lot of occupations in the CF require more than if I were to do the same thing outside of the military. [color=yellowI have a lot of experience as a cook but because I don't have grade 12 math, I can't do it in the CF, kinda crazy to me [/color] but it is what it is...... ???



My pleasure for sure!

Oh really? That is very interesting. Perhaps DAA could chime in on this?


----------



## jordandixon3

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> Do you "have a college diploma in food services or culinary arts?"


No I don't have college or anything, the Clerk asked me that too at the RC, but I think what gets me is that if you get offered a position as a Cook in the CF, you go through an apprenticeship the same as you would outside of the military. It's taking someone who has little or no experience and training them to become a licensed Cook. 

Anyway, I am looking into other occupations to add as my 3rd choice, its just a little hard when the website doesn't give the exact education requirements....


----------



## KerryBlue

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> No I don't have college or anything, the Clerk asked me that too at the RC, but I think what gets me is that if you get offered a position as a Cook in the CF, you go through an apprenticeship the same as you would outside of the military. It's taking someone who has little or no experience and training them to become a licensed Cook.
> 
> Anyway, I am looking into other occupations to add as my 3rd choice, its just a little hard when the website doesn't give the exact education requirements....



Yes but you already have theory and formal training that is provided to you by a College program. While you may have experience and the minimum education, the minimum is often just that. A minimum level, it also states on the website that there are two entry programs for Cook, direct entry meaning you have a degree already. Or NCM-SEP which is the army paying for you to get a diploma. 

The website may not give the exact education because in many cases their isn't anything exact, for say infantry. Their is no school where you can learn to be a solider.


----------



## KerryBlue

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> Yes, but if you attend college you already have theory and formal training that is provided to you by a College program. While you may have experience and the minimum education, the minimum is often just that. A minimum level, it also states on the website that there are two entry programs for Cook, direct entry meaning you have a degree already. Or NCM-SEP which is the army paying for you to get a diploma.
> 
> The website may not give the exact education because in many cases their isn't anything exact, for say infantry. Their is no school where you can learn to be a solider.


----------



## jordandixon3

I completely agree that by having college or some formal training would be a big plus, but, maybe if they would allow people who DO have the minimum requirements for an occupation to apply, the occupation wouldn't be in demand as the website states (however, the site may not be updated). Rather than saying, you meet the minimum BUT we want you to have more.


----------



## KerryBlue

I understand, but this way it is easier for the CF to train you to the specific job they need you for. You have a base provided by college and the CF works with that base to training you. It saves them time having to teach you from scratch, as in theory you sorta know how to cook because of your formal training.


----------



## The_Falcon

The Education Matrix for lack of a better term is not accessible to the public as it changes frequently.


----------



## q_1966

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> I was wondering if anyone on here either has a link or could point me in the right direction if I was looking for the specific education requirements for all the occupations? I will explain, I went in to the recruiting office today to add a 3rd occupation choice to my application, I wanted to add Cook. On forces.ca it says that the education requirements for Cooks are Grade 11. I have my high school diploma.  The Clerk at the recruiting office pulled up a document on the computer with all the requirements and said that I need Grade 12 math, which I only have grade 11 Math. Does anyone know if I can get that document with all the exact education requirements?
> 
> Thanks


In BC in 2005 you only needed grade 11 math to graduate from high school with a diploma not sure if that's changed. "The minimum required education to apply for this position is the completion of the provincial requirements for Grade 11 or Secondaire V in Canada. Foreign education may be accepted." (quoted from recruiting website). Journeyman (Red Seal) Cook is a qualification more coveted than Cooking School, If you do go to Cooking School (or already have) prior to going make sure it is an accredited school or you will be enrolled as untrained and start from scratch at CFSAL: FS&S (approved Cooking School credits means you work in the base kitchen until the field training phase of the course. There is no apprenticeship like there is in civilian kitchens you can challenge it when you have 3 years on the floor cooking (Minimum to challenge it, whatever the required hours are) but usually after your on job training package and QL5 course which is usually when your a Cpl / Leading Seaman gives you enough knowledge and experience to challenge it plus lots of hard studying as there is lots of terminology and definitions to memorize. You can get the crown to pay for the test and then go, but its easier to just take the test and get reimbursed if you pass, so the chain of command won't be mad at you if you fail.

CFSAL: Canadian Forces School of Logistics & Administration
FS&S: Food Service & Support

Do you really need math for cooking...nothing really past grade 4 unless your taking a recipe for 4 and turning it into an exact recipe for 1000 and need to make sure the ratio of ingredients is correct using a certain equation...what the equation is, I can't remember but I never had to do it in 5 years in / 4 years of cooking (after BMQ and Cooking School/time off the floor for NETP) and you could use a computer/calculator to figure it out. Most measurements is a 4" half insert of this or a 6" long insert of that. It helps in baking when you can covert 250mls to 1cup etc without having to look at the measuring cup, that's all the math involved, I'm horrible at it and I survived.


----------



## jordandixon3

Ok so I went into the RC today and added Ammunition Tech as my 3rd choice.  I am pretty happy with that choice. However, I was told that they were waiting on a waiver to process my application. Basicly, because I left the reserves after completing BMQ common and BMQ Land and didn't become fully qualified, they need to give this waiver to process me. Hopefully they will approve it and I can proceed with the process.  
I know no one can give me an exact time table, but am I looking at a few month? a year? 2 years?


----------



## DAA

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> Ok so I went into the RC today and added Ammunition Tech as my 3rd choice.  I am pretty happy with that choice. However, I was told that they were waiting on a waiver to process my application. Basicly, because I left the reserves after completing BMQ common and BMQ Land and didn't become fully qualified, they need to give this waiver to process me. Hopefully they will approve it and I can proceed with the process.
> I know no one can give me an exact time table, but am I looking at a few month? a year? 2 years?



They should have already interviewed you and asked the simple question of "What were your reasons for releasing from the Reserve Force?" and then if necessary "What have you done over the past x months to prove to us, that you're not just going to release from the Regular Force?"

If you haven't been asked those basic questions, then there is really nothing on which to base a waiver request on.


----------



## The_Falcon

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> Ok so I went into the RC today and added Ammunition Tech as my 3rd choice.  I am pretty happy with that choice. However, I was told that they were waiting on a waiver to process my application. Basicly, because I left the reserves after completing BMQ common and BMQ Land and didn't become fully qualified, they need to give this waiver to process me. Hopefully they will approve it and I can proceed with the process.
> *I know no one can give me an exact time table*, but am I looking at a few month? a year? 2 years?



You answered your own question.


----------



## jordandixon3

DAA said:
			
		

> They should have already interviewed you and asked the simple question of "What were your reasons for releasing from the Reserve Force?" and then if necessary "What have you done over the past x months to prove to us, that you're not just going to release from the Regular Force?"
> 
> If you haven't been asked those basic questions, then there is really nothing on which to base a waiver request on.



That's what I thought, but I haven't done anything yet. So is this "Waiver" something that is done at my local RC or is it something that has to be cleared from higher up? I sat down with a recruiter today and asked about the waiver and he just said it could be a long wait, no questions as to why I released or anything, actually at one point he said "I don't know why you released, it not my business....."   This could be a very long wait...................


----------



## DAA

jordandixon3 said:
			
		

> That's what I thought, but I haven't done anything yet. So is this "Waiver" something that is done at my local RC or is it something that has to be cleared from higher up? I sat down with a recruiter today and asked about the waiver and he just said it could be a long wait, no questions as to why I released or anything, actually at one point he said "I don't know why you released, it not my business....."   This could be a very long wait...................



Far as I understand it, the waiver is at the discretion of the local CO, after you have waited the full year from your effective date of release, which I believe you already have.  So, until they ask you the question of why you released, you may very well be at a stand still.


----------



## batnyan

Hello,
Here is the form you seek...
I hope it will help you...


----------



## q_1966

The bottom of both pages are cut off


----------



## Brasidas

batnyan said:
			
		

> Hello,
> Here is the form you seek...
> I hope it will help you...



SigO is an engineering occupation? News to me.


----------



## MagicTape

So I am new to the forum as I have only registered minutes before making this post. I have lurked around and read other posts on this board and I would like some advice. I am currently in Grade 12 and I think I may have messed messed up my marks really bad. My upcoming math test will put me at 75% if I can get ONLY an A. I hope  to increase my marks in other areas, but sadly my physics is in the same boat. I honestly think that I will not make it because of my grade 11 marks, and due to the teacher's strike this year I could not boost my marks in the summer (horrible excuse on my part). If I were to apply to ROTP after high school graduation would I need to go to a college or uni and get marks there or could I just boost my high school marks and then apply? If I were to go that route I would probably get more than 1 part time job so I can save up for myself. Any advice is helpful, thanks for reading.


----------



## Offstar1029

You need to have a degree to be an Officer so no matter what you'll have to go to college or university. If you apply and get in they will send you to the RMC most likely and you'll get paid while there so there wouldn't be a need to get a part time job.


----------



## MagicTape

But that means I would have to go through DEO, right?
What if I take maybe a semester of classes and then I am not satisfied, do I use my college marks for ROTP?
I was just thinking of what would happen if I were not go to to college and just boost my HS marks instead.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

MagicTape said:
			
		

> But that means I would have to go through DEO, right?
> What if I take maybe a semester of classes and then I am not satisfied, do I use my college marks for ROTP?
> I was just thinking of what would happen if I were not go to to college and just boost my HS marks instead.



Direct Entry Officer plan is only for people that have already completed a degree.

You can either select ROTP to attend RMC or a civilian university (which isn't always guaranteed either); or you can postpone your application until you've pursued and completed studies on your own time and dime and reapply for Direct Entry.

The average length of an application is upwards of 6 months, so if you wish, apply now for ROTP and submit the interim transcripts now and continue with upgrading to bolster your grades. You can certainly take credit and non-credit college/univ courses while your application is ongoing; they may not hurt your application, but they may not help either especially of they don't apply to the degree/officer occupation you're applying for.

Mention on your application that you're actively upgrading and As your application proceeds you can always add updated transcripts.


----------



## DAA

MagicTape said:
			
		

> If I were to apply to ROTP after high school graduation would I need to go to a college or uni and get marks there or could I just boost my high school marks and then apply?



You need to apply for ROTP NOW and not after you graduate.  If your marks for the "mandatory" courses are lacking (ie; less than 75%) you have two options available.  Try and retake the same course to improve your previous mark or take the next course in sequence at the Gr 12 or University Level and try to achieve a much better result.  If your marks for the "mandatory" courses are lacking, they sometimes will take into consideration comparative courses taken at a higher level.  (ie; Gr 11 Uni-Prep Math was 72% but your Gr 12 Uni-Prep Math is/was 85%, they just might disregard the Gr 11 mark and go with the Gr 12 mark)

Academic Prerequisites by Program  ---->  http://www.rmc.ca/adm/ap-cpa-eng.php


----------



## MAJONES

It used to be that you could get picked up for ROTP after completing first year university on your own.  I'm not sure if this is still an option.  My advice is to ask an Military Career Counselor (MCC) at the recruiting centre, they will know.  
If getting picked up for ROTP after first year is still an option then my suggestion to you is to plan to attend a civilian university, on your own dime, for first year and then re-apply to ROTP.


----------



## George Wallace

MAJONES said:
			
		

> It used to be that you could get picked up for ROTP after completing first year university on your own.  I'm not sure if this is still an option.  My advice is to ask an Military Career Counselor (MCC) at the recruiting centre, they will know.
> If getting picked up for ROTP after first year is still an option then my suggestion to you is to plan to attend a civilian university, on your own dime, for first year and then re-apply to ROTP.



Unless just changed recently, you were permitted to apply into your third year, with at least a year left before graduation.  Someone in the CAF Recruiting Group can confirm the current policies.


----------



## Brasidas

I met an officer cadet who had completed five terms before going to RMC ROTP. He started over in first year.

There are other options to RMC, RESO being a viable one. Get into a civilian university in a program that leads to a job that you're interested in. Visit the local reserve armoury, find out about available officer trades (or NCM ones for that matter), go on course during your summers and train at the unit during the year.

If you end up not joining the regforce, you're not going to have to make a big left turn in life.


----------



## MagicTape

Thanks for the replies so far, the local recruitment centre will send a representative over on the 20th of November to my high school so I can ask even more questions. Also another question. Friend of mine just sent in his application  but he did notget his parents consent (signature) and other things filled out. Will his application be delayed and will the recruitment centre tell him so?


----------



## DAA

MagicTape said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies so far, the local recruitment centre will send a representative over on the 20th of November to my high school so I can ask even more questions. Also another question. Friend of mine just sent in his application  but he did notget his parents consent (signature) and other things filled out. Will his application be delayed and will the recruitment centre tell him so?



The standard procedure, is for the Parent or Guardian to attend the CFRC with the applicant at the time of their first visit.  Only in special circumstances, will they allow the parent or guardian to sign the form without being present and then several steps will need to be taken by the CFRC to confirm the validity of the signature/consent.


----------



## MagicTape

Hey guys, just got my receipt for applying for ROTP. I want to use my grade 12 1st and 2nd term marks though , can I just get back on the email later?


----------



## MagicTape

I applied and got my receipt for applying and now it is asking me to submit documents +  transcripts. However, I want to include my grade 12 1st term (and possibly 2nd term) marks. Did I apply too early??


----------



## rjfreeman

Hello MagicTape

thank you for your interest in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF).

No you did not apply too early. By reading your post, it would appear that you are applying for ROTP which closes 31 Jan 15. So your application will be based on your grade 11 marks and your grade 12 marks to this date. Do not worry about waiting for all your grade 12 marks. 

If you have any further questions feel free to ask us.


----------



## vaprisk

Improve your grades as much as you can for not only to better your chances but also help you to live upto the high standards of RMC after you get into.


----------



## MagicTape

Master Seaman Robert said:
			
		

> Hello MagicTape
> 
> thank you for your interest in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF).
> 
> No you did not apply too early. By reading your post, it would appear that you are applying for ROTP which closes 31 Jan 15. So your application will be based on your grade 11 marks and your grade 12 marks to this date. Do not worry about waiting for all your grade 12 marks.
> 
> If you have any further questions feel free to ask us.



My grade 11 marks are on the low side so I'm afraid that they will not apply towards RMC, that is why I wanted to use my grade 12 marks. May I use my 1st term and part of my 2nd term grade 12 marks as the grades? Will the grade 12 marks overpower the grade 11 ones? I want to get into engineering or sciences, I had thought that 11 marks only applied if you were going into Arts. I can ask my school to get me updated transcripts to include my 1st and 2nd term marks. Thanks so much for replying


----------



## tessa.vanz

They want your official hs transcripts which will include all of your marks from grade 9 to now.  As your grade 12 marks come in they will take them into consideration, but they will not process you without a copy of your official transcripts... Hope this helps!


----------



## buckybarnes

Hello! Just a quick question, I can delete this after (or at least I hope I can????) but I can't find an answer to this anywhere. To apply to the army you need a diploma or a GED, but I also noticed you need to bring in your school transcripts, the final grades for your last 2 years of school, I don't have good grades at all. Will this effect my chances of being accepted? I am in the last semester of grade 12 and I will have good marks for the last half, will this make any difference? thanks!


----------



## Ayrsayle

buckybarnes said:
			
		

> Hello! Just a quick question, I can delete this after (or at least I hope I can????) but I can't find an answer to this anywhere. To apply to the army you need a diploma or a GED, but I also noticed you need to bring in your school transcripts, the final grades for your last 2 years of school, I don't have good grades at all. Will this effect my chances of being accepted? I am in the last semester of grade 12 and I will have good marks for the last half, will this make any difference? thanks!



What are you trying to do - Apply as an NCM? Regular officer training program? Difficult to make a comment when we have no idea what you are trying to apply for.

Bottom line - Yes, your marks will be considered when you apply.  You likely already know this.  Go talk to the recruiters and find out!


----------



## buckybarnes

Ncm, sorry should have realised that before posting. How early is too early to talk to a recruiter? If I don't plan on signing up for another year or so should I wait? thanks for answering!


----------



## Tibbson

If you don't feel it's too early to ask here then it's not too early to ask a recruiter.


----------



## Pwegman

Your school transcript is like your resume . So yes it can play against you if they have to pick between candidate with almost the same CFAT and interview score . Keep in mind that you're fighting for a job position,  and like a company they  are just looking for the best candidate for the job.  ( sorry for my english )


----------



## Allan14

As of now i am a grade 10 student.

For my career i am going to become a CF member, and stay in for my entire life until retirement. My question is, should i still attend university?

If i do not need a post-secondary education for my desired field, should i still attend University?  Even if i leave the military, i am going to become an RCMP or an OPP (ontario provincial police), and neither of those require a post-secondary education.  My main worry is of what my parents will say, my mother attended University in Canada and the U.S and has two majors, my sister just got accepted to University for forensic science.  My mother knows i want in the CF for my entire career, but still expects me to attend University, mainly because i can get an athletic scholarship. 

Any suggestions?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Do what you want to do, after considering the advice of those you know and respect.  Don't burn any family bridges, they can be hard to rebuild.

Having said that, IF the trade you want doesn't require a degree, but you still see having one as a personal and professional goal, consider joining as an NCM and after thru your initial training/when the time is right, you can still work on your degree and may have some financial assistance from the CAF.  All the time, still gaining experience and training in your NCM trade.  I  have more than one friend who worked towards a degree while serving as NCMs.  Some went on to, or are applying to, go Officer.  Others are happy as NCMs.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## Allan14

Thanks a lot for the advice.

I was considering attending RMC but then decided i didn't want to become an officer without any experience.  I may look more towards what your friend did because that appeals to me much more.

Thanks again


----------



## Tibbson

Here's my take on it all:

1)  You MAY not need college or university to be selected for a career in the CAF but it will only help your chances if you do have it.

2)  You don't say what trade you want to go for in the CAF but there are some trades that require you to have a college diploma before you can join the CAF into that trade.  

3)  If you intend on eventually trying to join the RCMP and/or OPP with just some form of military experience....better fill out applications to Palidan Security or the Corps of Commissionaires as well because that is where you will likely get hired.  You do realize of course that the RCMP and OPP receive thousands of applications each year for a very limited number of slots and that you will be competing for those vacancies against applicants with Police Foundations diplomas, Criminology degrees and/or prior policing experience?  

Try to join the military and while you are waiting for a vacancy take some college or university courses to prepare either for your CAF career or a field you may want to go into afterwards.  Then, once (if) you get hired and start your military career just use the various education programs the military offers to work towards finishing a diploma program or degree.  That will not only make you a better NCO in the military but a more attractive hire for when you may chose to get out.


----------



## Allan14

The trade I'm aspiring for is basic infantry.  

You're right, the chances are not high that I'd get a job over a more qualified individual, but those courses (Police Foundations diplomas, Criminology degrees) do not interest me, if i were to attend university i would be taking Kinesiology and health science.  Lets not forget however that I am most likely not going to leave the military.  

Thanks for good suggestions and facts.  Ill have to research more as to what the military offers along the lines of education.


----------



## mariomike

Allan14 said:
			
		

> Even if i leave the military, i am going to become an RCMP or an OPP (ontario provincial police), and neither of those require a post-secondary education.
> 
> Any suggestions?



You may want to read this.

CF experience relevant to RCMP, civ policing? (merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/32733.0


----------



## kratz

Allan14,

There are many reasons people leave the military, often for unplanned reasons.

Should on of those unplanned reasons occur, what is your plan B? 
Sadly, some of the reasons to force people out of the military would also prevent you from 
being accepted to the RCMP or OPP.


----------



## Tibbson

Allan14 said:
			
		

> The trade I'm aspiring for is basic infantry.
> 
> You're right, the chances are not high that I'd get a job over a more qualified individual, but those courses (Police Foundations diplomas, Criminology degrees) do not interest me, if i were to attend university i would be taking Kinesiology and health science.  Lets not forget however that I am most likely not going to leave the military.
> 
> Thanks for good suggestions and facts.  Ill have to research more as to what the military offers along the lines of education.



Ok then, IF police foundations and/or criminology don't interest you then it's obvious you would not be going for a career with the RCMP or OPP if you ever release from the CAF.  You are talking yourself in circles.


----------



## Allan14

I probably should have mentioned how i havn't done research on what an RCMP/OPP does, i wouldn't have come off as naive.

Knowing that i havnt done much research ill saying this, I'm sure everyone has wanted to become a police officer at one point, so in my best words, I'm interested in doing what you see a local police officer doing in town, like pulling people over, patrolling, that sort of stuff, not really as to what goes on behind the scenes that we don't see.  Like i said, i haven't done research, so when i have ill find that you're most likely right and what police really do isn't what i want,


----------



## Tibbson

Well based on my 25 years of policing, if you want to do what police do like drive around and hand out tickets (which is about 3% of what they do but, ok, think what you want), then you had better have some interest in police foundations and/or criminology type courses.  

As you have said, you have a lot more self education to do.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Allan14 said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot for the advice.
> 
> I was considering attending RMC but then decided i didn't want to become an officer without any experience.  I may look more towards what your friend did because that appeals to me much more.
> 
> Thanks again



Many, many Officers in the CAF start off in the Officer trg system 'with no experience'.  I'll suggest that a LARGE percentage of them don't start off NCMs, and that is what the training system is there for.  They also routinely work very close with Junior NCOs (Corporal and Master Corporals) Senior NCOs (Sergeants), Warrant Officers (Warrant Officers, Master Warrant Officers and Chief Warrant Officers) and also have their entire superior officer change of command to help them.

Just something to keep in mind.


----------



## Allan14

I said I have miniman knowledge in policeing, I said I'm interested in what I've seen, like arrests and tickets.  I didn't say I think that's all they do, so there's no need for remarks like "which is about 3% what they do, but Ok, think what you want".  I never said I think that's all they do, I'm just saying it's what I've seen.


----------



## Tibbson

And all I'm saying is if you are going to declare something as a possible career choice after the military you should know what they do otherwise pick a job that you understand.  Your outlook is like saying "I want to be a dentist because I like handing out toothbrushes and dental floss the little kids".


----------



## The_Falcon

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> Well based on my 25 years of policing, if you want to do what police do like drive around and hand out tickets (which is about 3% of what they do but, ok, think what you want), then you had better have some interest in police foundations and/or criminology type courses.
> As you have said, you have a lot more self education to do.



This may be pertinent to become an MP, or other services in Canada, or ancillary LE, but in Ontario there is zero requirement for it. In fact the overwhelming majority of successful applicants in Ontario, neither have a Police Foundations/Law and Security nor do they have a background in security. Personally of the 7 people I know from my regiment who became police officers, only 2 had taken PF, and of those 2 only one worked security. 

I took Police Foundations and it was a waste of time and money.  From my college cohort from what I have gathered over the last decade since we first started of the about 50-60 people, 2 became police officers, 2 work in corrections, 1 is a Special Constable and the rest including myself, are not working in law enforcement.


----------



## Allan14

Well thank you for the feedback Shindler, but I did say I'm in grade 10, its more of something that looked cool, but not as much of a serious idea

have a good one


----------



## The_Falcon

Allan14 said:
			
		

> Well thank you for the feedback Shindler, but I did say I'm in grade 10, its more of something that looked cool, but not as much of a serious idea
> 
> have a good one



Regardless of what grade you are and what your future aspirations are, on this site (and in most professions including policing) proper grammar, sentence structure and spelling is required. This is not a request, your posts are painful to read.


----------



## James17

My marks were absolutely garbage in high school, My CFAT results were the highest my recruiter has ever seen "he said" so that limit me on what I can and cannot do, due to prerequisite's for each career. All that matters is your CFAT, Medical, Interview for your merit list rank. If your Scores placed you to a complete tie with one applicant than they may look at your high school marks, or they may go on life experience. First step is to do your aptitude test to see if your score even qualifies you for those trades. Don't give a list of excuses with them just do your best, a lot of people didn't care in high school (myself included) it will hinder you but not completely shut you out of a promising career with the Canadian Forces. 

Hope this gives a bit of hope to you.


----------



## Ayrsayle

James17 said:
			
		

> My marks were absolutely garbage in high school, My CFAT results were the highest my recruiter has ever seen "he said" so that limit me on what I can and cannot do, due to prerequisite's for each career. All that matters is your CFAT, Medical, Interview for your merit list rank.



And you are familiar enough with the recruiting system to make these claims?  I would suggest staying a little closer to your lanes in terms of personal experience.  In particular, your summary of what CFAT scores and "limits" is wrong.  A high score (in all tested areas) will make you eligible for a wider variety of professions, not exclude you from them.  

While the CFAT, Medical, and Interview matter in terms of your merit listing - I find it highly unlikely that assessments, like your school marks, are not considered by your interviewer, as they determine your suitability for the professions you've chosen (you know, the main purpose of an interview).  But I'd confirm that with a recruiter first.


----------



## James17

In terms of school marks limiting you I am saying that some career paths such as Medic require you to have a biology 12 course, if you have not taken this course you can not even apply even if your CFAT results do qualify you for this, unfortunately I know from first hand experience. I am not saying they do not look at your marks but your high school grades are not entered into the rank system to have a DIRECT effect on your merit rank. I have been told this directly from my recruiter, I'm not guaranteeing it is correct but I can see it being this way.


----------



## Loachman

James17 said:
			
		

> I'm not guaranteeing it is correct but I can see it being this way.



Then, rather than stating something as a fact and being jumped on for doing so, try saying "a recruiter told me".


----------



## James17

Yes I should have been more thorough stating where I was getting my information. Best of luck either way.


----------



## manna15

Hi everyone,

I am applying for NCM trades that only require high school and maybe some high school math. However, I was working on a university degree and failed a few classes recently. Not just one, but a few. Will this be used against me during selection or do they only look at my high school grades? I included my university experience in my application so as not to leave any gaps in time, but will they need my university transcripts or just my high school transcript?

Thanks for your help in advance.


----------



## DAA

manna15 said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am applying for NCM trades that only require high school and maybe some high school math. However, I was working on a university degree and failed a few classes recently. Not just one, but a few. Will this be used against me during selection or do they only look at my high school grades? I included my university experience in my application so as not to leave any gaps in time, but will they need my university transcripts or just my high school transcript?



You will be required to provide "all" official transcripts as part of the processing.  For NCM occupations, I would not be overly concerned with the grades that you have received, the CF is looking for "successful" completion of the required academic courses specific to the occupation(s) which you are applying for.


----------



## manna15

DAA said:
			
		

> You will be required to provide "all" official transcripts as part of the processing.  For NCM occupations, I would not be overly concerned with the grades that you have received, the CF is looking for "successful" completion of the required academic courses specific to the occupation(s) which you are applying for.


Excellent. Thank you for the clarification.


----------



## habsman18

So I am currently in grade 11 and I would like to apply to RMC in grade 12. At the time that I chose my courses for grade 11 I wanted to be a fighter pilot but now I wanna be either a military police officer or a armour officer. The problem lies where I took physics thinking it be good for a fighter pilot however as I have come to realize is that I suck at physics and have been failing pretty much every test and I know I'm on my way to failure. I am looking to take either military psychology and leadership or military and strategic studies which don't require physics. Will this course at all hold me back from RMC even though the rest of my courses meet the requirements and are in the 70's and 80's?


----------



## PuckChaser

I strongly doubt you're going to be a competitive candidate with marks in the 70s. There are people here who are worried they aren't competitive enough with 85% averages over all their school years.


----------



## habsman18

True but however I am just starting grade 11 and its just one course plus I have all of grade 12 and I haven't mentioned my extracurriculars


----------



## PuckChaser

Instead of asking "Can I still get in with failing?" ask yourself "Do I really care enough about RMC to sort myself out and not fail physics?"

Look at the threads of applicants here. RMC is a free university education. Its highly competitive and any black mark can ruin your chances. Pick up your socks, get extra help and pass that course. Its September, you have a lot of time to fix that mark.


----------



## Inspir

If you fail a course it would undoubtedly bring your overall average down. You make it sound as if you are giving up too easily and looking for the easy way out instead. Why not just work harder and see a tutor or ask your teacher for some extra help.


----------



## KLP

I have to agree with the above poster, my son has always struggled with math but he refused to let it get to him. He went for extra help saw a tutor for 2-4 hours a week, even when he didn't have math in the semester and started on calculus knowing he would have to take it IF he got into RMC. It did bring his average down a bit but with hard work it didn't make to much of a difference as he was accepted into RMC for Military and Strategic Studies. Don't give up and look for the easy way out, there is no such thing if you make it in. Good luck to you, it's definitely a challenging road but I think it has made my son a better person for going through it.


----------



## BinRat55

KLP said:
			
		

> I have to agree with the above poster, my son has always struggled with math but he refused to let it get to him. He went for extra help saw a tutor for 2-4 hours a week, even when he didn't have math in the semester and started on calculus knowing he would have to take it IF he got into RMC. It did bring his average down a bit but with hard work it didn't make to much of a difference as he was accepted into RMC for Military and Strategic Studies. Don't give up and look for the easy way out, there is no such thing if you make it in. Good luck to you, it's definitely a challenging road but I think it has made my son a better person for going through it.



Well said KLP. Especially the part about no such thing as an easy way out if you make it in. C'mon habsman18 (and I choke on your screen name for other reasons...) we want the soldier to be able to do 21 push-ups. Really, the soldier that JUST does the required amount is a QUALIFIED soldier. The soldier that goes above and beyond and does 35 or 40 push-ups is a DESIRED soldier. Know what we are sayin? Just don't give up - you recognized a fault, bust your hump trying to fix it.

I think the Habs thing says it all...

Can of worms - opened!!  :worms:


----------



## RotpDodsy

You really should try harder, but I'm sure they won't look at your grade 11 marks too intensely. Consider this, in grade 11 your mom/sister/aunt/cousin dies and you are unable to attend school out of grief, eventually you fail grade 12 but come back for a victory lap and leave with a 60 average. 2 years go by and you're thinking about your options, you're sick of working at K mart or wherever you work. You take courses at an accredited online school and you pull off 90's in all of your classes, putting you in the 93rd percentile. Are you telling me that they're going to look at your application and say "pff this kid is horseshit" or are they going to think "this kid's lived a little, he knows his mistakes, he's not going to mess up this chance" 

All in all, pull up your socks, but don't worry about it. Life's about making mistakes, ROTP isn't looking for child prodigies, just dedicated people. They're taking a chance on you, and they're going to take a chance on the person who has the most drive to succeed. 

If you don't get in you don't get in though, if it's really as hard as all of these guys are saying and they go back to your grade 8 marks, then with your 96 average from grade 12 you could just go to uoft and join a few clubs to stay active, get a co-op and pay off your school a couple years after graduating. If you really wanted to you could even apply as an officer after that....just a thought.


----------



## JesseWZ

RotpDodsy said:
			
		

> You really should try harder, but I'm sure they won't look at your grade 11 marks too intensely. Consider this, in grade 11 your mom/sister/aunt/cousin dies and you are unable to attend school out of grief, eventually you fail grade 12 but come back for a victory lap and leave with a 60 average. 2 years go by and you're thinking about your options, you're sick of working at K mart or wherever you work. You take courses at an accredited online school and you pull off 90's in all of your classes, putting you in the 93rd percentile. Are you telling me that they're going to look at your application and say "pff this kid is horseshit" or are they going to think "this kid's lived a little, he knows his mistakes, he's not going to mess up this chance"
> 
> All in all, pull up your socks, but don't worry about it. Life's about making mistakes, ROTP isn't looking for child prodigies, just dedicated people. They're taking a chance on you, and they're going to take a chance on the person who has the most drive to succeed.
> 
> If you don't get in you don't get in though, if it's really as hard as all of these guys are saying and they go back to your grade 8 marks, then with your 96 average from grade 12 you could just go to uoft and join a few clubs to stay active, get a co-op and pay off your school a couple years after graduating. If you really wanted to you could even apply as an officer after that....just a thought.



I'm not sure what to take from this post other than a big old bag full of *nope.* Your screen name leads me to believe you have either applied for or are currently in ROTP... but it sounds like you are well outside your arcs. Your empty profile doesn't help. Officers are supposed to lead (by example), and "good enough" just doesn't cut it. There are options available to the OP to boost his attractiveness to the military. Many were mentioned in this thread. All of them involve hard work, full stop.


----------



## BinRat55

You know, I felt like I wanted to say something to RotpDodsy as well, but not quite sure how to ... phrase... Your post was close to what I was thinking - more of the "Stay in your lane" type of thing. Habsman got the info he was searching for - no need for coddling. Or trying to read the minds of those in a position to action an application. That's just... off...


----------



## RotpDodsy

The message behind my post was more to the tune that trying hard is important, but things do happen. You guys are right, officers do need to lead by example. What's more of an example than succeeding when all odds are against you? I feel as though both of you feel entitled to your opinion, and you are. But just as you said to me that attempting to judge how the RMC or ROTP accepts their candidates I could say the same to both of you. Unfortunately I am not "coddling", only hoping to add another type of advice to the mix of things, especially considering the advice I gave is the exact situation of friend of mine currently attending RMC found himself in last year. (had terrible grade 9-12 marks but took extra courses online to get an average in the 90's for grade 12)

RMC looks at your top 6 grade 12 marks, just like any other unviersity or college....


You both need to reconsider how you approach others, hostility is not necessary. How's that for a big bag of "nope"....


----------



## George Wallace

RotpDodsy said:
			
		

> The message behind my post was more to the tune that trying hard is important, but things do happen. You guys are right, officers do need to lead by example. What's more of an example than succeeding when all odds are against you? I feel as though both of you feel entitled to your opinion, and you are. But just as you said to me that attempting to judge how the RMC or ROTP accepts their candidates I could say the same to both of you. Unfortunately I am not "coddling", only hoping to add another type of advice to the mix of things, especially considering the advice I gave is the exact situation of friend of mine currently attending RMC found himself in last year. (had terrible grade 9-12 marks but took extra courses online to get an average in the 90's for grade 12)
> 
> RMC looks at your top 6 grade 12 marks, just like any other unviersity or college....
> 
> 
> You both need to reconsider how you approach others, hostility is not necessary. How's that for a big bag of "nope"....



Ummmmm?  Are you actually trying to be smart, or just lucked out at it?  You do know what happens when you poke a hornets nest, don't you?  If you really want to be a smartass, you really are entering a fight with both your hands tied behind your back; so it may be advisable to temper your attitude when you post again.


----------



## dangles

RotpDodsy said:
			
		

> The message behind my post...



I understand that you are trying to be optimistic and support the person who is in a time of trouble, and I appreciate that you took the time to do that for a random stranger. However, in your original post you said things like "I'm sure they [recruiters] won't look at your grade 11 marks too intensely," and "ROTP isn't looking for child prodigies, just dedicated people," which make it seem you speak on behalf of the ROTP as a representative of sorts, which you are not. There are members on this website who have worked directly or indirectly in the ROTP recruiting process who would be better apt to be the judge of the situation.

So, instead of making statements that may be untrue, harmful, or misrepresented by people genuinely looking to seek answers to their problems, you should consider sticking to the more general advice you gave when you said "All in all, pull up your socks, but don't worry about it."
 :2c:


----------



## RotpDodsy

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ummmmm?  Are you actually trying to be smart, or just lucked out at it?  You do know what happens when you poke a hornets nest, don't you?  If you really want to be a smartass, you really are entering a fight with both your hands tied behind your back; so it may be advisable to temper your attitude when you post again.




I'm not too worried about it, George Wallace, I responded to both parties with only respect. Something you clearly lack for others, given your intent on malice over a trivial discussion you were not part of.. 




			
				dangles said:
			
		

> I understand that you are trying to be optimistic and support the person who is in a time of trouble, and I appreciate that you took the time to do that for a random stranger. However, in your original post you said things like "I'm sure they [recruiters] won't look at your grade 11 marks too intensely," and "ROTP isn't looking for child prodigies, just dedicated people," which make it seem you speak on behalf of the ROTP as a representative of sorts, which you are not. There are members on this website who have worked directly or indirectly in the ROTP recruiting process who would be better apt to be the judge of the situation.
> 
> So, instead of making statements that may be untrue, harmful, or misrepresented by people genuinely looking to seek answers to their problems, you should consider sticking to the more general advice you gave when you said "All in all, pull up your socks, but don't worry about it."
> :2c:




Thanks, however I was only speaking from someone that is aware of how acceptance works. 


Of course NO rotp representative would come on here and say what I said, that wouldn't make sense. It'd going directly against their academic values. Just as no other university would speak out and tell high school students that grade 9-11 don't actually matter..

 That being said, I can see how my original post came off as "don't worry about it slack off" and the message I should be sending should be more mature than that. I believe that if someone makes mistakes in highschool enough times, it will prevent them from achieving their goals as easily as they could of otherwise. I'd suggest then to the original poster that from now on he focuses his time on his studies, something I've always done and am a big promoter of. 

I appreciate your civil response.


----------



## JesseWZ

fatjohnthebarber said:
			
		

> I'm not too worried about it, George Wallace, I responded to both parties with only respect. Something you clearly lack for others, given your intent on malice over a trivial discussion you were not part of..



George is a site moderator here (hence the big DIRECTING STAFF under his handle). 
He is a representative of the site owner and therefore part of every discussion. He is also trying to give you some sound advice about your future on this site (and in the CF). You were called out on posting about something of which you know little (that is frowned on both here and in the CF). If you think my post was hostile, you are in for a very steep learning curve. 

Believe it or not, I also was a part of the ROTP program before seeing the light (darkness?) and changing occupations. I am well aware of the selection process and what makes an applicant a good applicant. I am also aware of what seperates a good applicant/university student from a good officer. If you want people to take your opinion more credibly, I would highly suggest you fill out your profile so people get an idea as to your background. This way, they can weigh your opinions based on your experience. Currently, we can only guess, and you know where my guess stands on your experience.


----------



## DAA

fatjohnthebarber said:
			
		

> Thanks, however I was only speaking from someone that is aware of how acceptance works.
> 
> Of course NO rotp representative would come on here and say what I said, that wouldn't make sense. It'd going directly against their academic values. Just as no other university would speak out and tell high school students that grade 9-11 don't actually matter..



So if someone is just starting their Gr 12 academic year and there are NO mid-term marks available, then how can you say that Gr 11 marks don't actually matter?  Not to mention, some ROTP Occupations do actually have "mandatory" Gr 11 courses.

And if you are aware of how acceptance works, then you would have known that and also that there are "3-stages" to the process.


----------



## BinRat55

DAA said:
			
		

> So if someone is just starting their Gr 12 academic year and there are NO mid-term marks available, then how can you say that Gr 11 marks don't actually matter?  Not to mention, some ROTP Occupations do actually have "mandatory" Gr 11 courses.
> 
> And if you are aware of how acceptance works, then you would have known that and also that there are "3-stages" to the process.



I was wondering when you were gonna get here!!


----------



## Justin Wickware

I am 16 and currently in grade 11. I want to join the navy and go to RMC. My marks are in the 70%-80% range. I play field hockey for a club team and I volunteer as a field hockey coach. I am also in my school's leadership program where I volunteer to help my community. I am working my hardest to improve my marks and help solidify my chance of getting into RMC. I have a low mark in my English 11 class where I have a mark of 62.5% I plan on going to summer school to improve this mark up to a minimum of 85%. I am highly motivated and am willing to put forth all my effort into improving my grades up to a 85% average and getting excepted into RMC. Thanks. 

ANY TIPS ON IMPROVING MY COMPETENCY FOR RMC? 

This is my first time posting on this forum I apologize if i made any mistakes in making this thread.


----------



## mariomike

Justin Wickware said:
			
		

> ANY TIPS ON IMPROVING MY COMPETENCY FOR RMC?



This may help,



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> This forum on RMC is full of tips. Start reading into the threads and you'll many things that others have done to make themselves more competitive. Fitness and sports, leadership of clubs/teams, volunteer activities ... all these things balance scholastic achievement to show oneself to be a well-rounded candidate. Read on, explore, discover.


----------



## DAXTER619

Unfortunately, I'm very worried about this as well. I'm currently on my final year of high school and applied to the Aerospace Engineering Officer trade. I have been generally a high 80 to 90 student throughout high school. But this year due to the lack of focus, and an unhealthy amount of time spent on extra-curricular activities, my Advanced Functions mark is in the 60s. 

I finished my interview last month and am now waiting for the call. Hopefully my extra-curricular can substitute for the marks. Maybe repeating Advanced Functions in night school next semester will help?
Thanks!


----------



## sidemount

https://www.rmcc-cmrc.ca/en/registrars-office/prerequisites-province#Ont


Have a read....grade minimums  are usually 75%

You may have to retake and up your grade to be considered for selection.

In the end its RMCs call if they take you.
Civy universities have their own requirements.


----------



## DAXTER619

sidemount said:
			
		

> https://www.rmcc-cmrc.ca/en/registrars-office/prerequisites-province#Ont
> 
> 
> Have a read....grade minimums  are usually 75%
> .


Thank you for that link. It clears some misconceptions considerably!


----------



## mariomike

Saw this in Ask a CAF Recruiter. Adding it here for future reference,

GED question  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/122483.0/topicseen.html
"i received my GED back in 04/05 in the state of Virginia."


----------



## mariomike

Saw this in Ask a CAF Recruiter. ( 2016 )

Adding here to update the discussion,

Joining the CAF forces wanting to know info
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/121695/post-1411104.html#msg1411104

OP: "Would I still be able to join the forces in infantry if I haven't graduated/am not currently attending school but have intentions of going back in after I get my life started?"


----------



## WFT32

Hello, I am on my last year of high school and I plan on joining the CAF. I have a few questions though.

1. Is there a way for me to join the Regular Forces and continue my education while in the Regular Forces?

2. Will the CAF help me pay for it or will I have to do it out of my own pocket?

3. If I were to join the ROTP program where would I be living in while I'm in RMC?

4. How much would I be getting paid if I was under the ROTP?

5. What would I be doing during the summer of the ROTP if I was studying at RMC?

6. How tough is it staying in RMC?

Thanks


----------



## RedcapCrusader

WFT32 said:
			
		

> Hello, I am on my last year of high school and I plan on joining the CAF. I have a few questions though.
> 
> 1. Is there a way for me to join the Regular Forces and continue my education while in the Regular Forces?
> 
> Other than attending RMC under ROTP, you'd have to be a candidate for UTPNCM, or attended trade school for select NCM trades. Sounds like you're going into University so ROTP would be the only way.
> 
> 2. Will the CAF help me pay for it or will I have to do it out of my own pocket?
> 
> Not only will the CAF pay for it, you will be paid to attend RMC/trade school. You will be asked to repay your education by serving 2 months for every 1 month of schooling. Your rent and accommodation (called Rations and Quarters) will automatically be deducted from your pay.
> 
> 3. If I were to join the ROTP program where would I be living in while I'm in RMC?
> 
> On campus.
> 
> 4. How much would I be getting paid if I was under the ROTP?
> 
> Your first year as an Officer Cadet will earn you $1567 per month (as of 2013).
> 
> 5. What would I be doing during the summer of the ROTP if I was studying at RMC?
> 
> You would be conducting your military training. Your Basic Military Officer Qualification (BMOQ, followed by BMOQ-Land if you're Army), then you will conduct On the Job Training and further officer development training.
> 
> 6. How tough is it staying in RMC?
> 
> No idea. Hundreds of people attend and graduate every year. If you put your mind to it, have a good attitude, and work hard; it won't be tough. It certainly won't be easy as they will challenge you throughout, but the only factor that makes things tough or difficult is you.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## WFT32

Thank you so much for answering my questions but now I have a few more if you don't mind answering them hahaha

1. Is the rations and quarters already deducted from the $1567? Or is it still to be deducted?

2. What happens after the 4 years of RMC?

Thanks for the help I really appreciate it


----------



## RedcapCrusader

1. No, that's your Gross Monthly Salary.

2. After you graduate, you'll be posted out to a unit where you'll do more work and more training. More training and more work. Do cool things and look cool doing it.  8)


----------



## WFT32

Alright hahaha thanks


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, WFT32

There is a ton of information about almost everything CF-related here on this Site already. Please read through older threads and use the Search Function before asking questions that have been asked before, often many times. In doing so, you will likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.


----------



## Nam

I was just wondering when they look over the grades of 10~12 grades. Do they look for how well you did or how much you improved over the period?


----------



## jaerbear2000

I am a 16 year old female, I just started cadets in the September of 2015 and plan on going till I age out.  I've been on Student Council for about 2 years and have been elected for the following year. I danced since I was three for 6 hours a week. My grades are in the low 90's and high 80's, like 89's. But one problem I have is that I finished my grade 10 gym with a 74. That will probably look bad, right? But in Manitoba, grade 11 or 12 gym is pass or fail so I'm going to say that isn't an issue. I also plan on doing IB diploma next year, which is like AP but harder. I know that IB diplomas are known worldwide hence the "I" standing for international. I just want someone from RMC to tell me what first year orientation program is going to be like. How I should workout to prepare and get accepted in RMC. I'm not super athletic but I still have 2 years but build my body. So if someone could tell me what kind of workouts I should do and also tell me your opinion about my chance of getting into RMC. Thank you.


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, jaerbear2000

You will never know what your chances are until you actually apply. Unless you do that, though, your chances are exactly zero.

There are threads on this Site that discuss physical fitness and all sorts of other useful topics. Please take the time to explore and learn. You've got time to do that, and, in the process, you will likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.


----------



## OneAndOnlyKongo

mariomike said:
			
		

> Saw this in Ask a CAF Recruiter. ( 2016 )
> 
> Adding here to update the discussion,
> 
> Joining the CAF forces wanting to know info
> http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/121695/post-1411104.html#msg1411104
> 
> OP: "Would I still be able to join the forces in infantry if I haven't graduated/am not currently attending school but have intentions of going back in after I get my life started?"



Thank you Mariomike, this answered a question I had! 

I am currently finishing high school a year late, but hopefully I will be able accomplish my dream of serving my country. Graduating very soon and I did my CFAT today, very excited!    [


----------



## mariomike

OneAndOnlyKongo said:
			
		

> Thank you Mariomike, this answered a question I had!
> 
> I am currently finishing high school a year late, but hopefully I will be able accomplish my dream of serving my country. Graduating very soon and I did my CFAT today, very excited!    [



Congratulations on your CFAT. If I recall correctly you were interested in a technical trade? Good luck with that!


----------



## coltsman18

Hey everyone! I just have a question about my application to RMC this September. So last year in grade 11 I finished with an average of 74%. This year in grade 12 I plan to really excel myself and shoot for 80's and higher. My first question how much will my grade 10 and 11 marks affect my acceptance even if I do really well in grade 12? (I got a 75% average in grade 10). My second question is on the RMC website it says "Students must offer a minimum course mark of 75% for each of the required courses and have an overall average of 75% on the best 6 courses completed in grade 12 including the required courses." I plan to apply for the arts program and it requires ENG4U (which I will be taking) and MCF3M along with other optional math courses. In grade 11 I took MCF3M and received a 68%. To get to my question will I still be considered for enrollment even though my math mark did not meet the requirement even though my grade 12 marks (hopefully) will be really good? (say 80's-90's) I also have an excellent extracurricular and leadership background as well which I know RMC will like to see. Thanks for responding and for your help!


----------



## WFT32

I have a few specific questions I'd be grateful if someone could help me out,

1. I am a Canadian citizen who is currently residing in the Philippines, I am 16 years old and from what I hear the application process for RotP takes a while from another country. Am I allowed to apply even if I haven't graduated yet?

2. If I could how long before I graduate do you think I should apply?

3. Could I get a tattoo while I study in RMC if ever I get in?

4. Do you guys ever get vacation at RMC that I can use to go back to the Philippines to visit my family if ever I get in?

Thanks guys  [


----------



## Loachman

All of this has been discussed in various threads here already, in some cases multiple times. Please start reading these threads. The information is there for you, and you will learn far more that way.


----------



## Jotzam

Before and during my online application process I was searching the forums intensely for stories of applicants in similar grade/experience situations as myself, so I thought I would share my own experience now that I have made it past the academic selection board.

I went to high school from 2005-2009. My grades were terrible. My grade 12 English mark was 65 and my grade 11 math mark was 56. My overall high school average was around 60. (I did have some 80's , a 90, and somehow got 100 in a grade 9 music course).

Immediately following high school I went to college for a one year certificate. My grades were still terrible. I graduated with around a 70. 

After that, I spent 3 years in the Canadian Forces as a Crewman (or Armoured Soldier as the Forces.ca website likes to say). 

I released at the end of my contract and immediately went back to school, taking a college program called Computer Programmer Analyst. It is a 3 year program that offers 3 co-op placements totaling a year of work experience, as well as 6 semesters of instruction. I've managed a 4.01 GPA (out of 4.2 , so roughly high 80's ), and have worked as a Software Developer part-time during the school year between co-op placements. I've done some volunteering around the school as well, but not a huge amount.

I should add that my college program does have many articulation agreements with other Universities that give advanced standing into higher years. However, I haven't really taken any courses that (in my opinion) are direct upgrades of my high school classes. For instance, I haven't taken any additional English courses or any specific high school level math courses. 

I do not know how heavily they look into previous service, or if my evaluations during that time were read. 

Hopefully my experience will shed some light on questions others may have, or provide some hope. 

Also, my two trade choices are Pilot, and ACSO. 

If anyone has any other questions, feel free to PM me. 

Best of luck to anyone who applies.

Cheers!


----------



## WFT32

I'm currently in Grade 11 and I no longer wish to further my education I'm tired of school and it doesn't particularly interest me. 
I plan on just joining the forces as an NCM because that's what I want to do. I'd like to hear what you guys think, will not fishing Grade 12 hold me back from certain things as an NCM? If so what would it be. Thank you very much I appreciate all the replies.


----------



## WFT32

the patriot said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that you can still get an education as an NCM in the regs.  There is a plan I believe called the UTNMP.  Basically commissioning from the ranks.  Start your career as an NCM, then when you feel you‘re ready for university studies, they‘ll send you off to RMC and graduate you with a commission.



What if I didn't finish grade 12 and only finished grade 11 would I still be eligible for this program?


----------



## mariomike

April 07, 2016
OP WFT32:  "I am on my last year of high school"
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/122666/post-1428625.html#msg1428625
Locked.

Education And Joining The CAF  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13652.175
8 pages.

High School Drop Outs?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/91329.0
3 pages.

Dropping out to be a medic - Advise please  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/56395.0

Join Now Or Later?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/90900.0

Joining the reg force with only Grade 10?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/101937.0
2 pages.

etc...

The general opinions I have read on here over the years is to not drop out. That the CAF will still be there when you graduate.



			
				WFT32 said:
			
		

> I plan on just joining the forces as an NCM because that's what I want to do.


----------



## Johnnny

[size=14pt][/size]  

HI everyone,

Does the Canadian Army accept people with degrees form the states for an officer position? I'm a natural born Canadian, and I'll have 90 credits in university by May 10th. I hold an Associate of Arts from Broward College, and I plan on transferring to SNHU (Southern New Hampshire University) which is a private school but recognized throughout the entire States, just like any regular University. I'll graduate by February 2018 with my Bachelors in criminal justice and minor in homeland security.


----------



## mariomike

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Does the Canadian Army accept people with degrees form the states for an officer position?



If you attended and graduated high-school, college or university in another country, you may need to have your education evaluated by the Alliance of Credential Evaluation Services of Canada to determine if it is equivalent to the education provided in Canada. The Forces will not pay for the cost of the evaluation.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#education

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of education.


----------



## 10yfaith

Hey, new to the forums. Sorry if this is done wrong.

So I've wanted to the join the army since I was 10 and I'm really getting into finally getting into the life. (16 y/o now) I've visited the recruiters and my local CFB (as forwarded by the recruiters at my detachment, to speak to the Reserves recruiters on-base), and they answered some pre-application stuff. I just forgot to ask at the time, but anyways, I missed about 3 semesters of high school  (I will of course be making up for it), so I don't have the minimum 15 credits. In my system in Ontario, it's 4 credits per semester. I'll of course wait until I do reach the minimum of 15 to apply, but I'm just wondering, as long as I do make up and have those credits by then, will it affect my chances at all? Thank you.


----------



## mariomike

10yfaith said:
			
		

> I missed about 3 semesters of high school  (I will of course be making up for it), so I don't have the minimum 15 credits. In my system in Ontario, it's 4 credits per semester. I'll of course wait until I do reach the minimum of 15 to apply, but I'm just wondering, as long as I do make up and have those credits by then, will it affect my chances at all?



Education

To apply to the Forces you must have passed Grade 10 or Secondaire IV (in Quebec). However, a number of the jobs available require high school diplomas, college certificates, or university degrees. 

The Forces will consider applicants who have passed a General Education Development (GED) test. However, applicants from Quebec who have a GED must also have the necessary credits from Secondaire IV. 

Adults who have not completed high school can submit an Attestation of Secondary School Equivalency, but it is not considered equivalent to a high school diploma.

If you have been home-schooled, you will need to provide proof from your home province’s educational authority that your marks have been assessed and meet their standards.

If you attended and graduated high-school, college or university in another country, you may need to have your education evaluated by the Alliance of Credential Evaluation Services of Canada to determine if it is equivalent to the education provided in Canada. The Forces will not pay for the cost of the evaluation.

If you have completed college or university, or have skilled work experience, you may qualify to have your military and occupational training reduced. In these cases, the Forces will complete a Prior Learning Assessment. 
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#education


----------



## 10yfaith

mariomike said:
			
		

> Education
> 
> To apply to the Forces you must have passed Grade 10 or Secondaire IV (in Quebec). However, a number of the jobs available require high school diplomas, college certificates, or university degrees.
> 
> The Forces will consider applicants who have passed a General Education Development (GED) test. However, applicants from Quebec who have a GED must also have the necessary credits from Secondaire IV.
> 
> Adults who have not completed high school can submit an Attestation of Secondary School Equivalency, but it is not considered equivalent to a high school diploma.
> 
> If you have been home-schooled, you will need to provide proof from your home province’s educational authority that your marks have been assessed and meet their standards.
> 
> If you attended and graduated high-school, college or university in another country, you may need to have your education evaluated by the Alliance of Credential Evaluation Services of Canada to determine if it is equivalent to the education provided in Canada. The Forces will not pay for the cost of the evaluation.
> 
> If you have completed college or university, or have skilled work experience, you may qualify to have your military and occupational training reduced. In these cases, the Forces will complete a Prior Learning Assessment.
> http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#education



Yes, I understand that. They also explained this. I just mean, even with meeting those requirements, would my HISTORY of missing school affect my chances?


----------



## Loachman

All that you have to do is meet the requirements.

That is all that stated in the requirements, no more, no less.


----------



## RocketRichard

Loachman said:
			
		

> All that you have to do is meet the requirements.
> 
> That is all that stated in the requirements, no more, no less.


Generally speaking this is correct but best speak to a recruiter and/or apply. Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PuckChaser

10yfaith said:
			
		

> Yes, I understand that. They also explained this. I just mean, even with meeting those requirements, would my HISTORY of missing school affect my chances?


Not going to look good in the interview if you just skipped school for a year and a half. Be prepared to explain that situation.


----------



## da1root

10yfaith said:
			
		

> Yes, I understand that. They also explained this. I just mean, even with meeting those requirements, would my HISTORY of missing school affect my chances?


As PuckChaser stated be prepared to explain.  If you missed/skipped school for a legitimate reason, or if it's been years and you've proven that you're more reliable now it likely won't have any impact or much of an impact.  If it's that you recently skipped school and it was because you were "sick of the system" (just an example); that wouldn't play well during your interview.
No matter the reason you will have to fill in the gap of that 1.5 years when you do your interview.


----------



## rchapelas

So my question here mainly is the Education Requirements for Enlisting, It says that to join you are required to have completed Grade 10 - 12 or GED Equivalent! What i don’t understand is why the requirements other than the simple fact that they do not want to recruit idiots? I feel as a Highschool Dropout that the requirements are unfair for “Mature Adults” who have spent most their Teenage / Adult Lives working for a living and self teaching themselves skills that are not taught by our Educational System. 

I myself spent time with the Army Cadets and my future goal was to Enlist with the Forces at 18 but due to the fact that i never was any good at School or Books in general and was more of a Hands On Learner, That i did not reach the Educational Requirements that the Canadian Forces expect Recruits to have. I also don’t understand as to why it is required for jobs such as “Infantry” or “Mobile Support Operators” since they do what most Dropouts do on a regular basis in standard civilization who have excelled at those jobs better than most Graduates from Highschool, College, Operator Schools or avid Hunters or Competition Shooters. Also i have talked to many Ex Army in Canada and the U.S about how they got in without a Grade 10 and some were at one point Special Forces and they have all told me the same thing, You don’t need a Grade 10 and to just walk into a Recruiter’s and apply but i have talked to Recruiters and they tell me i need to pass the Educational Requirements.

So is Grade 10 absolute mandatory? Or is there other ways around it?


----------



## mariomike

rchapelas said:
			
		

> So is Grade 10 absolute mandatory?



QUOTE

To start a full or part-time career in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) you must:

•have completed at least Grade 10 or Secondaire IV in Québec (some jobs need higher levels of education)
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/apply-now.html

END QUOTE

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## LightFighter

rchapelas said:
			
		

> Also i have talked to many Ex Army in Canada and the U.S about how they got in without a Grade 10 and some were at one point Special Forces and they have all told me the same thing, You don’t need a Grade 10 and to just walk into a Recruiter’s and apply but i have talked to Recruiters and they tell me i need to pass the Educational Requirements.
> 
> So is Grade 10 absolute mandatory? Or is there other ways around it?



How long ago did these people you talked with claim they served? Also, are you sure they are legitimate?

Grade 10 is the minimum, no way around that.  The recruiter(s) you’ve spoken with told you that. 

Some NCM trades(and all officer MOSIDS) require higher levels of education.  With only having grade 10, you probably won’t merit as well compared to someone who finished high school or has a higher level of education. 

As well, the current US Military minimum for education is grade 12 or GED. 


Lastly, there will be classroom learning within the Military, even in the Infantry.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

rchapelas said:
			
		

> You don’t need a Grade 10 and to just walk into a Recruiter’s and apply but i have talked to Recruiters and they tell me i need to pass the Educational Requirements.
> 
> So is Grade 10 absolute mandatory? Or is there other ways around it?



Sounds like you just answered your own question....


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca

Keep in mind that minimum standards  (which will not be waived) are exactly that - minimum. Many occupations are highly competitive, and education is an easily-measured factor by which prospective candidates are evaluated. Simply meeting standards may not suffice. One should always strive to exceed them.

The ability to learn is crucial, and that includes classroom learning. You need to demonstrate that capability. If you want this enough, you will do what is required and more. If you are not so willing, then this is not the career for you. We want, need, and expect excellence, not mediocrity. Lives - including yours - and expensive equipment depend upon topnotch performance.

Take some time to look around this Site. There is a ton of useful information and guidance here in a variety of threads. Reading through some of those would be a good start.

Qapla.


----------



## Piece of Cake

rchapelas said:
			
		

> So my question here mainly is the Education Requirements for Enlisting, It says that to join you are required to have completed Grade 10 - 12 or GED Equivalent! What i don’t understand is why the requirements other than the simple fact that they do not want to recruit idiots? I feel as a Highschool Dropout that the requirements are unfair for “Mature Adults” who have spent most their Teenage / Adult Lives working for a living and self teaching themselves skills that are not taught by our Educational System.
> 
> I myself spent time with the Army Cadets and my future goal was to Enlist with the Forces at 18 but due to the fact that i never was any good at School or Books in general and was more of a Hands On Learner, That i did not reach the Educational Requirements that the Canadian Forces expect Recruits to have. I also don’t understand as to why it is required for jobs such as “Infantry” or “Mobile Support Operators” since they do what most Dropouts do on a regular basis in standard civilization who have excelled at those jobs better than most Graduates from Highschool, College, Operator Schools or avid Hunters or Competition Shooters. Also i have talked to many Ex Army in Canada and the U.S about how they got in without a Grade 10 and some were at one point Special Forces and they have all told me the same thing, You don’t need a Grade 10 and to just walk into a Recruiter’s and apply but i have talked to Recruiters and they tell me i need to pass the Educational Requirements.
> 
> So is Grade 10 absolute mandatory? Or is there other ways around it?



rchapelas, could you please describe what you believe are the main duties of an infantry soldier and a mobile support operator.  Also, could you please explain the skills and traits required for the above mentioned trades.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

rchapelas said:
			
		

> I also don’t understand as to why it is required for jobs such as “Infantry” or “Mobile Support Operators” since they do what most Dropouts do on a regular basis in standard civilization



I don't know if you are purposely trying to come off as demeaning but I suggest you check yourself before you offend people on here from these trades that are apparently full of "high school dropouts". You'd be surprised at the quality of people in the CF...apparently.


----------



## Loachman

Unless and until somebody has something _excruciatingly_ constructive to add, there is no need to post anything further until rchapelas returns with additional questions.


----------



## Xylric

I run a start-up company in which a plurality of staff have some significant neurological variations. For both legal and moral reasons, I can't really go into detail, but it has left me to wonder. Given that my administrative and managerial experience has involved ensuring that the staffers are able to put their skills to use in ways that complement each others' strengths while neutralizing weaknesses, giving full account to any specifics (with the understanding that I can't help people who aren't fully honest with me about their specific challenges and risks), how different would this be from being an officer in the Canadian Forces?

Given that the military is structurally more inherently hierarchical, it seems to me that the best managerial practices of the civilian world may prove insufficient. It's the difference between a group of sled dogs and a pack of wolves, in my estimation. One works together effortlessly in regards to a specific individual task, and the other is much more similar to a family group, working as a symbiotic whole in *all* regards.

I wrote the CFAT earlier this month at least partly out of the premise that I have a demonstrated ability to forge a stable team out of individuals with skills and backgrounds which do not blend naturally (given that the company has been in operation longer than five years). I have my suspicions that it's rather arrogant for me to believe that this skill alone is sufficient justification to seek a military career, but I'm glad to make the attempt.


----------



## Xylric

I should probably clarify what my question is, since my previous post read more like I'm making a statement rather than asking a question. 

How useful would a background in business (with additional experience in special education) be for a serving officer in the Canadian Forces?


----------



## Marchog

I am not an officer, but I do know that different trades require different degrees from their officers. For example, it is doubtful (I'm going to go out on a limb and say _impossible_) for you to become a medical officer without a medicine-related degree, but someone with more knowledge might correct me. I can however, say rather certainly that combat arms trades such as artillery, infantry, and armoured, are somewhat less picky in terms of degrees (e.g., they'll take humanities). 

Basically, it depends on what *kind* of officer you want to be. If you were to specify, I'm sure somewhat would be able to better help you.


----------



## Xylric

Well, I was originally looking at a Pilot role, but when they suggested that I look into Naval Warfare, it was something which seemed far more suitable. My background in business is experiential (though I do have a diploma from Sheridan College for Marketing), with my degree being in something else (History & Anthropology of Religion, in essence).


----------



## Marchog

In that case, take a look at the description for Naval Warfare Officer here: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/air-ship-crew/naval-warfare-officer.html

Most of the descriptions for officer positions will tell you what degree you require.


----------



## Xylric

I think I'm in the odd situation where my supplementary education is far more applicable than my actual degree. We'll see what they say as things progress - I passed the CFAT, and am scheduled for medical in a few weeks.


----------



## Roger123

Xylric said:
			
		

> Well, I was originally looking at a Pilot role, but when they suggested that I look into Naval Warfare, it was something which seemed far more suitable. My background in business is experiential (though I do have a diploma from Sheridan College for Marketing), with my degree being in something else (History & Anthropology of Religion, in essence).


I may be understanding you incorrectly, but the impression I get is that you are trying to match your educational background/ experience to an officer position that is likely to benefit most from what you have to offer. Why not look through the different officer trades and find something that interests you and see if you meet the requirements.


----------



## da1root

When individuals are unsure about the various occupations in the CAF and whether they would be a good fit with their education I normally suggest going into a Recruiting Centre to speak with the staff there; this gives a better interaction and ability for you to ask follow up questions vice seeking advice online.


----------



## Loachman

Roger123's and Buck_HRA's advice is the best, and the latter is a Recruiter of solid repute.

What do you _*want*_ to do?

Reading through older (but, in most cases, still active) threads will give you more insight.


----------



## Xylric

Oh, I'm *very* sure about what I'm after - my great-great grandfather was a shipwright who came to Nova Scotia after the shipyards he worked at in Scotland shut down in the late 19th century. When 1910 came around, he would've been one of the key factors in the construction of the first native ships of the Canadian Navy.

Becoming a Naval Warfare Officer would be a filial duty as a result, and one that I would proudly commit myself to (providing that I am deemed suitable, that is). My question was ultimately an academic one, because while I can see where my experience in business *could* be useful (in regards to nearly all administrative tasks), I'm simply unfamiliar with the differences that I'd need to adapt towards.


----------



## Loachman

That you will learn during your training, and for a long time afterwards.

It sounds like you have made a decision.

Congratulations.


----------



## Marchog

Xylric said:
			
		

> Oh, I'm *very* sure about what I'm after - my great-great grandfather was a shipwright who came to Nova Scotia after the shipyards he worked at in Scotland shut down in the late 19th century. When 1910 came around, he would've been one of the key factors in the construction of the first native ships of the Canadian Navy.
> 
> Becoming a Naval Warfare Officer would be a filial duty as a result, and one that I would proudly commit myself to (providing that I am deemed suitable, that is). My question was ultimately an academic one, because while I can see where my experience in business *could* be useful (in regards to nearly all administrative tasks), I'm simply unfamiliar with the differences that I'd need to adapt towards.



I suppose I can relate, since I accidentally picked the same trade as an ancestor of mine, without even knowing. Blood thicker than water, etc etc.

Good luck!


----------



## Piece of Cake

Xylric said:
			
		

> I run a start-up company in which a plurality of staff have some significant neurological variations. For both legal and moral reasons, I can't really go into detail, but it has left me to wonder. Given that my administrative and managerial experience has involved ensuring that the staffers are able to put their skills to use in ways that complement each others' strengths while neutralizing weaknesses, giving full account to any specifics (with the understanding that I can't help people who aren't fully honest with me about their specific challenges and risks), how different would this be from being an officer in the Canadian Forces?
> 
> Given that the military is structurally more inherently hierarchical, it seems to me that the best managerial practices of the civilian world may prove insufficient. It's the difference between a group of sled dogs and a pack of wolves, in my estimation. One works together effortlessly in regards to a specific individual task, and the other is much more similar to a family group, working as a symbiotic whole in *all* regards.
> 
> I wrote the CFAT earlier this month at least partly out of the premise that I have a demonstrated ability to forge a stable team out of individuals with skills and backgrounds which do not blend naturally (given that the company has been in operation longer than five years). I have my suspicions that it's rather arrogant for me to believe that this skill alone is sufficient justification to seek a military career, but I'm glad to make the attempt.



Hi Xylric, 

Your questions are great and touch on several issues that were addressed in fall 2016 Auditor General's report.

_5.67 The Canadian Armed Forces’ website is a key source of information for job seekers about the Canadian Armed Forces as an employer, as well as about its various occupations. We found that the website did not provide potential applicants with a tool to identify the occupations they were best suited or qualified for. The information was organized by occupation, but there was no way for job seekers to view job descriptions or educational requirements without clicking through many pages. As well, many occupations lacked civilian-equivalent titles. These issues may make it difficult for applicants who are unfamiliar with the Canadian Armed Forces to find the information they need._
Source: http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201611_05_e_41834.html#p51


----------



## Xylric

Thanks to all who answered.


----------



## Pusser

The occupation most likely to want or take advantage of your business background would be Logistics.  However, in order to be enrolled as a Logistics Officer, you need to have formal education in the field (e.g. B Comm. CA, MBA, etc).  Experience can perhaps be considered, but it would have to be analyzed and I wouldn't be optimistic about that.  I my view, the Logistics Branch has taken a stupidly narrow view of life in recent years and although I have been a Logistics Officer for over 25 years, if I were applying to the Branch today, I would not even be considered with my BA in History (back when I entered, it was considered an "acceptable" albeit not "preferred" degree, but now it is not even "acceptable).

Having said that, for many officer occupations (Pilot and Naval Warfare Officer included), any degree will do.  As you progress in rank and assume more responsibility, you will become more involved in the "business" part of your unit and a background in business may be beneficial (but a lack of it won't necessarily hinder you either, as long as you can learn).


----------



## Xylric

An interesting thought came to mind.

In the eyes of the military, what would be the core difference between a bachelor's degree (A B.Comm, for example) obtained at a college (such as Sheridan or Centennial), and a degree in the same subject obtained at a university?


----------



## da1root

Pusser said:
			
		

> if I were applying to the Branch today, I would not even be considered with my BA in History (back when I entered, it was considered an "acceptable" albeit not "preferred" degree, but now it is not even "acceptable).



You'd be "acceptable" again; February 2017 the entry standard for LogO was updated (again) to include "any baccalaureate and and or Master's Degree" is acceptable for LogO again...


----------



## da1root

Xylric said:
			
		

> An interesting thought came to mind.
> 
> In the eyes of the military, what would be the core difference between a bachelor's degree (A B.Comm, for example) obtained at a college (such as Sheridan or Centennial), and a degree in the same subject obtained at a university?



Some Canadian Colleges do offer Baccalaureate degree's; those degree's are given the same recognition as a degree obtained from a Canadian University.  The CAF is not responsible for determining whether an Institutions training meets Academic Requirements; there are other Legislative Bodies that determine that.

The only thing the CAF is concerned with is whether you have the appropriate diploma and/or degree to enter a specific occupation.


----------



## dapaterson

The senior serving logistician in the CAF was equally unsuited for Logistics; I believe he had a hand in sorting that out.


----------



## Pusser

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The senior serving logistician in the CAF was equally unsuited for Logistics; I believe he had a hand in sorting that out.



This is good to hear.  As I understand it, a previous LBI was the one who drove the change and it got through, despite the fact that there were a fair number of very senior logisticians who were as equally unsuitable as me (including a rear-admiral).


----------



## daftandbarmy

And here are 5 reasons you should want to be 'in the Army now': 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-reasons-why-should-want-army-now-richard-eaton/

And a few reasons to fugedaboutit: 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-reasons-why-you-dont-want-army-now-richard-eaton/


----------



## BagPiperGuy

Good day all

If this is in the wrong forum topic I apologize in advance (This is my first post on the website) I recently applied to the Canadian Forces but I was not eligible for the trade I wished to train in because I have not completed high-school completely (I need less then 10 Credits). Now I was offered other trades, some of which have peeked my interested, but this whole posses has made me think about completing my high school for good. What I am here asking is if I select another trade if once my training is complete and I am stationed if there is a fair amount of free time when off shift/duty to work on my post secondary education, either online or day/night school.

My original first choice of a trade in the CF was Firefighting or Medical Technician, But the other trades I am looking at are (In Order) Combat Engineer, Communication and Information System Specialist, Aviation System Technician or Armored Crewman.

I am just looking for some members who could share there experiences and if they feel it is possible to be a full time member and work on post secondary education, it has sort of become a personal goal of mine to finish it. Or if you feel I should finish it before and then complete my application. 

I appreciate any help or advice and thank you for your time!

J.


----------



## PuckChaser

You'll have time to complete your high school, it will even be encouraged by your chain of command. Don't expect time right away as you'll be busy on BMQ and your initial trade training.


----------



## Blahbla

I'm having some MAJOR doubts if my educational background will pass the requirements. I currently do not have enough credits to have completed grade 10. I do, however, have a college diploma for a 2 year program. Anyone know how that will work for me? I have submitted my CAF application and have my appointment for the aptitude test. Will my college diploma be considered? That is the highest level of education I have completed.


----------



## da1root

Unless there's a PSO hiding on here somewhere that question won't be answered.
Recruiters aren't "qualified" to give that advice and it'll be passed off to a Personnel Selections Officer (PSO).  Each CFRC has a PSO (called a UPSO); your file will be passed to them to make the determination as they'll have to review your college degree to make that determination.

Sorry I couldn't give you a more concrete answer.


----------



## Ricky Sunnyvale

I’m about to start grade 12 but I don’t really enjoy school but plan on joining the army, my question is will dropping effect my successes, will my pay be lower, will I not be eligible for higher ranking jobs and will those jobs be harder to get?


----------



## mariomike

Ricky Sunnyvale said:
			
		

> I’m about to start grade 12 but I don’t really enjoy school but plan on joining the army, my question is will dropping effect my successes, will my pay be lower, will I not be eligible for higher ranking jobs and will those jobs be harder to get?



See also,



			
				Ricky Sunnyvale said:
			
		

> Will graduating high school help me.


----------



## scorr1982

Hello all, I have a situation. I am currently in the application process for reserve ACISS, ( applied, force passed, cfat passed for all trades applied for, medical passed, interview complete). I didnt have my high school transcripts on the day of document processing so they said to get them and send them in. I'm 36 and it's been 20 or so years since grade 10. When I got my transcripts I realized I hadn't  complete grade 10. I have 5 courses complete from grade 10 and have English 12 and applied skills 11. So I send in my info into the recruiter and am awaiting their response. The list of education I have is :
-MTL 10 , capps 10, wt 10 chef 11, applied skills 11, English 12 
-From university (as mature student status)
I have sociology 100, English 100, and anthropology 121
-Im a red seal electrician so have all 4 levels of electrical schooling complete as well as the interprovincial exam passed 
-Steamfitting level 1 complete 

Does anyone here have any insight into what they think will be their response ?


----------



## scorr1982

Did you ever get an answer ?


----------



## marekbjj

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> To answer your question, the minimum education requirement for entry into the CF is completion of grade 10.  You mentioned that you finished half of your grade 10 year and that later you got a bump up to do some grade 11 courses.  Did you complete any of those courses?  If so, I would suggest that you may just barely meet the education requirements, which is potentially good news.
> 
> ...
> 
> If they determine that you do not currently meet the minimum education requirements you can appeal that decision and use previous work experience to substantiate your appeal.  You may even be able to write the CFAT test.  If you write the test, and do well enough on the test, and you have half of grade 10 completed, I would think the recruiting center would be very hard pressed to turn you down.
> 
> However, if they do declare your education to be too low, even after an appeal, you then have the opportunity to ask them exactly what courses you need in order to rectify the situation.  The solution is then simple.  Take the courses and re-apply and the recruiting center will be extremely enthusiastic about processing your application.
> 
> So there you have it.  If you take my advice, I believe you will find yourself with a decent prospect of getting in.  If you do not take this advice and you attempt to fool the recruiting center with your fake diploma, you will fail, and any chance at serving your country will vanish.  Is that what you really want?



I saw this post directed at someone else who posed a question and I was hoping I could get someone to shed some light here for me. There's a part that was slightly vague and wanted some clarification. ltmaverick25 mentioned this gentleman likely just barely meets the minimum requirements and I was hoping someone could speak to that for me.

Some background: I am really wanting to get into ACISS. I'm 33 years old, and I am active (ie. martial arts, free weights, calisthenics). I completed my CFAT 2 years ago, was told I had good score, but because I hadn't stopped smoking cannabis for long enough they asked me to come back in 2018. Second son was born, job was was going ok, fast forward to 2019, I had felt that I had left I stone unturned and decided to reopen my file. 

My first real job was a computer technician and I have held multiple positions related to supporting computers. Cumulatively 10 years work experience in IT - mostly computers, and two of those years working with Networks and Servers.

I dropped out of high school. I put in 5 years, but due to medical reasons was having difficulty with going to school. I believe I'm missing grade 10 English, but I honestly cannot remember - I am waiting for the transcript from the Manitoba Student Records. Note: medical issue has been corrected via surgery 8 years ago, my surgeon filled out a form and medical history was submitted to the RC.

After surgery I enrolled in a college program for Network Security. In order to get admitted, my employer at the time had to write a letter confirming that I can take the course as it pertains to my profession. I took a liking to these courses and did well - 3.75 GPA. I tried to get a position with my then employer in networking, but they advised they wanted someone with at least 3 years experience. 

After completing my Cisco CCNA Level 4 course in the spring of 2013, I decided to see what University would be like and gave undergraduate studies a shot. I did a semester of full time studies, while working full time, but was unable to continue: financial strain was too great for my small family to continue. I managed to get Intro to Psychology, Web Design & Development, Intro to Kinesiology and Academic Writing: Multidisciplinary, hammered out with a 3.0 GPA.

I have submitted my university and college transcripts, just waiting for my high school transcripts (Taking a bit longer due to an address error, so I opted to fax it to them and will pick it up when ready!)

I stopped by at the local book shop here and picked up a copy of the GED book and have been studying. However I have been looking through the Adult Learning information the the Manitoba Education website there's something in relation to Mature Student credits for previous education and or experience, which really just adds to my confusion. Would that potentially bring me up to the minimum requirement? No, I don't like "just meeting" the minimum requirement, but this is the hand I've got and I'm certainly not complaining.  ;D

With my primary objective being to get in, what should I do? Ie. See if the province will give me credit for my other learning, just do the GED and come back when I have it, just wait til I get the HS transcript and see what the RC says, am I over thinking this?

Thank you so much for reading this novel!


----------



## Historybuff22

A person that I know wants to join the Canadian forces. He is a completely competent, hardworking, fairly smart, nice guy. However, he has really poor reading skills. He did finish grade 10. What level do I need to help him get to for him to be able to join the Canadian forces? I have not been able to find very much information addressing this situation online.

Please no judgement, this person grew up in poverty in a rural part of Canada and just did not have access to quality education. But he is an otherwise normal and likable guy that somehow managed to get to age 24 with basic reading skills.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Different trades have different minimum education requirements;  so it would be dependant on that trade(s) of interest.  

Then, there is the aspect of meeting the minimum requirements vice being seen as 'competitive' in the eyes of CFRG....

Personally, I'd say a great start would be a GED program.  I am did that route (although some time ago now..) while working and took my classes at night.  I left high school before completing Gr 11, did my GED years later (I'd been enrolled with the min Gr 10 requirements for a combat arms trade back in the late 80s), went on to complete post secondary education and have been reasonably successful in 3 different MOCs over 30 years.  Being an education "late bloomer" isn't show stopper, just makes for some additional challenges.


----------



## Historybuff22

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Different trades have different minimum education requirements;  so it would be dependant on that trade(s) of interest.
> 
> Then, there is the aspect of meeting the minimum requirements vice being seen as 'competitive' in the eyes of CFRG....
> 
> Personally, I'd say a great start would be a GED program.  I am did that route (although some time ago now..) while working and took my classes at night.  I left high school before completing Gr 11, did my GED years later (I'd been enrolled with the min Gr 10 requirements for a combat arms trade back in the late 80s), went on to complete post secondary education and have been reasonably successful in 3 different MOCs over 30 years.  Being an education "late bloomer" isn't show stopper, just makes for some additional challenges.



Thank you for responding that is super helpful! I will help him look into doing a GED. I think he is going to be successful once he can read fully. He otherwise seems smart and I think you would have to be to go 24 years fooling people into thinking that you can read haha


----------



## winds_13

Historybuff22, there are many great NCM trades that only require grade 10. Perhaps the greater hurdle for this individual will be scoring high enough on the aptitude test (CFAT), given that all of the problem solving and verbal skills questions are presented in written form.

I recommend he have a look at the practice test on the Forces.ca website (found under "How to join") to gauge his ability first. Take notice of the time limit and consider that you should be aiming for a high score as it has weight when it comes to selections.


----------



## Chemist

Hi everyone, this is my first post on here but I’ve been reading thru various threads for years.  

I can ask my local unit this info but I wanted to pick your brains first.  Hopefully I posted in the right group since I assume things will start with basic/BMQ.

I’ve been out for about 17 years and I’m thinking of applying as a Log O at my local unit.  I was a reserve infantry officer, 2Lt, prior to releasing and I have a degree from RMC.  

What courses does one have to take and what are the courses lengths?  With a 17 year break in service I’m assuming I would have to start from scratch unless something was awarded with a PLAR.


Thanks

Chemist


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## OceanBonfire

Chemist said:
			
		

> Hi everyone, this is my first post on here but I’ve been reading thru various threads for years.
> 
> I can ask my local unit this info but I wanted to pick your brains first.  Hopefully I posted in the right group since I assume things will start with basic/BMQ.
> 
> I’ve been out for about 17 years and I’m thinking of applying as a Log O at my local unit.  I was a reserve infantry officer, 2Lt, prior to releasing and I have a degree from RMC.
> 
> What courses does one have to take and what are the courses lengths?  With a 17 year break in service I’m assuming I would have to start from scratch unless something was awarded with a PLAR.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chemist



Depends if you stay Army or you want to go Air Force or Navy.

For Navy you'd need to do NWO 2.

Logistics Officer Common Course (LOCC): ~2 months
Logistics Officer Course - Land/Air/Sea (LOCL, LOCA, LOCS): ~2 months
A specialization course (Finance, Supply, Transport, Human Resource,...): 1-2 months. Finance and Supply are mandatory for Navy.

Most courses done at Borden.


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## Ben D-L

Hello all,

My name is Ben and I'm 16, currently in grade 10. I've started my application process and have just received my email telling me the date for my TAFC. I started applying under the pretence that I can start my application before finishing grade 10, complete my testing g and submit my transcripts after in order to get on BMQ ASAP, a frei d of mine has already done this and confirmed it was possible with a recruiter, but in my email it says I must present school documents before cfat. I just need to confirm that I can still go through with this before finishing sec 4, or if I'm mistaken.


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## winds_13

Ben D-L, ask your school for proof of current, full-time entolment. Assuming you are applying for the reserves, you require proof of full-time studies anyhow in order to join before being 18 years old.


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## Ben D-L

I'll be sure to get my enrollment papers out. Do I have a guarantee they'll let me take my tests and checks while I'm still finishing grade 10? I'm scheduled for my TAFC  this march.


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## mariomike

Ben D-L said:
			
		

> Do I have a guarantee they'll let me take my tests and checks while I'm still finishing grade 10?



Ben D-L,

At the bottom of every page here it says,

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND."

Buck_HRA is our Recruiting Moderator. You may wish to see what he says.


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