# Killing Canadians 'best way': student



## alfie

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=272528
The National Post is running a story to day about a Bangladeshi-Canadian, one of his quotes is 
"Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are legitimate targets to be killed.  Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!! ... believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdrawn from Afghanistan."

What a waste of the human gene pool.


----------



## Scoobs

This guy is an idiot and the Canadian anti-terrorism law needs to be changed.  Free speech does not equal inciting violence.


----------



## Pte.Butt

I think they should let his location in Ontario known, I have plenty of friends that would love to become ''acquainted'' with the man.


----------



## SprCForr

Make a complaint to the Human Rights Commission.


----------



## Flip

This little creep does offer one small virtue, as an object lesson to the politically correct and the left side of any political argument.

If he can't be convicted, can he be deported?

I'm sad and nauseous now....


----------



## Trinity

Butt... did you not read the article?

A Mississauga university student



> The author of the messages is a Mississauga university student in his mid-twenties



That has to be U of T Mississauga Campus.  I wonder what U of T is doing
about it.  If I said  what he did against any Muslim or other group I'd
be run off campus in a heartbeat.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Prime candidate for a black bag job and a one way flight to Gitmo Han's Island.....turd.


----------



## OkotoksRookie

Forgive my language, but that's fuckin' sick...
This is the lowest form of scum... he openly approves of/endorses the killing of our brothers and sisters who fight daily for the freedoms and rights he blatantly abuses!? He should be forcibly removed from our boarders.
... just my opinion...


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Prime candidate for a black bag job and a one way flight to Gitmo Han's Island.....turd.



We should dispatch the black helicopter and the guys in the black pyjamas  ;D


----------



## vonGarvin

Free speech is one thing.  This man is an enemy, as far as I am concerned.  If encountered, detain him and offer him all the rights and privileges of a prisoner of war.  That's my non-legal, non-binding advice to me, and to me only.


He also demonstrates his ignorance when he talks of Canadians going to Iraq.


----------



## retiredgrunt45

After voicing a threat like that, i'm surprised he hasn't been picked up yet. The authorities should be all over this guy and given a one way ticket back to were he came from. I hate little p*** ants like this.

Actually I know of a better place to send these these bottom feeders! Its isolated for 100's of miles around, extremely cold and the only way to get out is by foot if you don't freeze to death first or by air and its right in our back yard. Build some shacks and throw all these dregs of humanity in there. Go back in six months and your problem is solved. Guantanamo bay "Gulag style". 

Red Neck I'am


----------



## the 48th regulator

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Free speech is one thing.  This man is an enemy, as far as I am concerned.  If encountered, detain him and offer him all the rights and privileges of a prisoner of war.  That's my non-legal, non-binding advice to me, and to me only.



Wrong,

This turd is a criminal, and should be tried and convicted.  As an enemy combatant, he would be given respect as a soldier, he deserves none of that.

dileas

tess


----------



## vonGarvin

No, do NOT deport him. He is an enemy of the state advocating the killing of Canadian Soldiers in Canada during a time of war.


----------



## Pte.Butt

Trinity said:
			
		

> Butt... did you not read the article?
> 
> A Mississauga university student
> 
> That has to be U of T Mississauga Campus.  I wonder what U of T is doing
> about it.  If I said  what he did against any Muslim or other group I'd
> be run off campus in a heartbeat.



Sorry I meant where he lives... I.E his exact/home address


----------



## jimb

He is a Canadian citizen now. So can his citizenship be re-voked ? Or can he be charged under  the "Hate Speech "  sections of the  CCC? He also made remarks about Jews, so lets hear from the Canadian Jewish Congress. My understanding is that a person who advocates violence against a " indentifiable person or group " is ripe for a "hate speech " charge. The CF is such a group, as are the Jews in Canada. Stockwell Day, are you listening ? 

Any body have the link to the internet  forum where he is to be found ? I don't have the National Post story handy, was that information in the story ?  CFRB AM 1010  had a interview this AM with the NP reporter, who said  that  this POS had been "  visited "   by CSIS and  RCMP , a couple of times, BUT he has not been charged, yet. Obviously, this guy thinks that he is "protected " by our laws. I hope he finds out that he is wrong  about that.

And yes he is a U of T student at the Mississauga campus. Age 28. 

Jim B. Toronto.


----------



## tech2002

this is what pissing me off, as-holes like him get Canadian citizenship, and nobody does anything because of the freedom of the speech, I would like to pay a visit to see that guy ..
just adding more, 
I did search his name on google, it seems he is outspoken on many sites, some of them dates back two year back..


----------



## vonGarvin

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Wrong,
> 
> This turd is a criminal, and should be tried and convicted.  As an enemy combatant, he would be given respect as a soldier, he deserves none of that.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess


actually, I was thinking of non-lawful combatant.  No soldierly respect, just to treat him without abuse.  But certainly detain him.


----------



## vonGarvin

Now, before anyone gets all antsy, this guy IS protected from harm by Canadian laws.  Having said that, given that he is advocating committing violence in order to alter government policy, is that inciting terrorism?  Sedition?  I'm not a scholar by any stretch of the word, but I think it is very dangerous to allow someone to spew off whatever they want, the Charter be damned.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Criminal Code of Canada on "hate propaganda" - note highlighted section which, I think, rules this out for threats against the CF:



> "Hate Propaganda
> 
> Advocating genocide
> 
> 318. (1) Every one who advocates or promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
> 
> Definition of “genocide”
> 
> (2) In this section, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part any identifiable group, namely,
> (a) killing members of the group; or
> 
> (b) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.
> 
> Consent
> 
> (3) No proceeding for an offence under this section shall be instituted without the consent of the Attorney General.
> Definition of "identifiable group"
> 
> *(4) In this section, "identifiable group" means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation. *
> R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 318; 2004, c. 14, s. 1.
> 
> Public incitement of hatred
> 
> 319. (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
> 
> (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
> 
> (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
> 
> Wilful promotion of hatred
> 
> (2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of
> (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
> 
> (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction ...."



Sedition?  Not exactly, since he doesn't appear to be saying, "let's go to Parliament Hill to kill everyone and form a new government".....



> Seditious intention
> 
> (4) Without limiting the generality of the meaning of the expression “seditious intention”, every one shall be presumed to have a seditious intention who
> (a) teaches or advocates, or
> 
> (b) publishes or circulates any writing that advocates,
> 
> the use, without the authority of law, of force as a means of* accomplishing a governmental change within Canada*.



How about participating/facilitating terrorism?  Not exactly that, either - don't know how case law on this newish stuff links "encouraging" to "recruiting to", though....



> Participation in activity of terrorist group
> 
> 83.18 (1) Every one who knowingly participates in or contributes to, directly or indirectly, any activity of a terrorist group for the purpose of enhancing the ability of any terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
> 
> Prosecution
> 
> (2) An offence may be committed under subsection (1) whether or not
> (a) a terrorist group actually facilitates or carries out a terrorist activity;
> 
> (b) the participation or contribution of the accused actually enhances the ability of a terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity; or
> 
> (c) the accused knows the specific nature of any terrorist activity that may be facilitated or carried out by a terrorist group.
> 
> Meaning of participating or contributing
> 
> (3) Participating in or contributing to an activity of a terrorist group includes
> (a) providing, receiving or recruiting a person to receive training;
> 
> (b) providing or offering to provide a skill or an expertise for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a terrorist group;
> 
> (c) recruiting a person in order to facilitate or commit
> 
> (i) a terrorism offence, or
> 
> (ii) an act or omission outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be a terrorism offence;
> 
> 
> (d) entering or remaining in any country for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a terrorist group; and
> 
> (e) making oneself, in response to instructions from any of the persons who constitute a terrorist group, available to facilitate or commit
> 
> (i) a terrorism offence, or
> 
> (ii) an act or omission outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be a terrorism offence.



Assault/uttering threats?  Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe, depending on how "person" (as opposed to group or class of people) is defined.....



> Assaults
> Uttering threats
> 
> 264.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who, in any manner, knowingly utters, conveys or causes any person to receive a threat
> 
> (a) to cause death or bodily harm to any person;
> 
> (b) to burn, destroy or damage real or personal property; or
> 
> (c) to kill, poison or injure an animal or bird that is the property of any person.
> 
> Punishment
> 
> (2) Every one who commits an offence under paragraph (1)(a) is guilty of
> (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
> 
> (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.
> 
> Idem
> 
> (3) Every one who commits an offence under paragraph (1)(b) or (c)
> (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
> 
> (b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.



Human rights complaint?  Not likely, given the definition of who's protected.....



> Prohibited grounds of discrimination
> 
> 3. (1) For all purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are *race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted*.


----------



## SweetNavyJustice

As opposed to acts of violence, people should write to him and tell him what a @#$# he's being.  Maybe if enough people let it be known that they knew about him, he might shut his gate.  

Oh, his name is Salman Hossain and he's a member of the University of Toronto Muslim Association.  

Maybe they should be pressured to give him the boot for his comments.  

As a note, his name comes from open source reporting:  http://www.mississauga.com/article/10748


----------



## tech2002

it does sucks, this should be as hate crime, but I am not a lawyer
U of T should let him go, I am surprised that none of his "friends" stop him from doing this....


----------



## Bigmac

This man is a terrorist who is inciting the act of murder on Canadian soldiers. He is also preaching anti semitism. He should be imprisoned until fully investigated for his crimes. 

He also forgets that many Canadian soldiers are muslim so he is also threatening people of his own faith.  

My 2 cents!


----------



## vonGarvin

http://dustmybroom.com/

Has info and comments on the article


----------



## CrazyCanuck

Here's the article with highlights:

TORONTO - A Toronto-area man has been posting messages on the Internet supporting attacks against Canadian soldiers on Canadian soil, drawing the attention of RCMP national security investigators.

Police have advised the Bangladeshi-Canadian that he is *under investigation* for incitement and facilitating terrorism after he repeatedly called the killing of Canadian troops in Canada "legitimate" and "well deserved."

*No charges have been laid, but counterterrorism officers are apparently taking it seriously, and the case has set off a debate inside government over where to draw the line between free expression and incitement.
*
*"The promotion of hate and violence has no place in Canadian society, and it is an offence under the Criminal Code," Stockwell Day*, the Minister of Public Safety, responded when shown a sample of the postings. "Our government carefully balances the right to freedom of expression with our duty to protect Canadians from harm."

Alarm bells about the online writings went off last September after German authorities arrested three Islamic militants accused of planning to bomb the Ramstein Air Base and Frankfurt International Airport.

That same day, Salman Hossain posted several messages about the plot on the comment board of a Toronto-based Internet site where he is a frequent contributor.

Although Mr. Hossain claimed in one of his communications with the National Post that he made the comments in a private online chat room, the messages can easily be viewed by anyone using a simple Google search.

*"I hope the German brothers were gonna blow up US-German bases in their country. We should do that here in Canada as well. Kill as many western soldiers as well so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters," he wrote*.

"Any and all Western soldiers getting prepared to enter Muslim nations like Afghanistan or Iraq should be legitimate targets by any and all Islamic militants either in the attacked nations or in the western nations --if there were any planned attacks against Canadian/ American soldiers by 'Muslim militants' in Canadian soil, I'd support it," he added.

"Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are legitimate targets to be killed.  Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!! ... believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdrawn from Afghanistan."

In addition, he singles out Jews, writing: *"When do I get to shoot a few Jews down for attempting to blow up dozens of mosques in America right after 9-11  why f---ing target the Americans when the Jews are better?"*

*The author of the messages is a Mississauga university student in his mid-twenties who claims to know the infamous Khadr family and several of the men arrested in Toronto in June, 2006*, on terrorism conspiracy charges. He confirmed to the National Post that he was the author of the postings but later declined to comment further on the advice of his lawyer. While he writes that he approves of attacking Canadian troops, he also says he would not do so himself.
*
Despite being visited by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and RCMP and told he was under investigation, Mr. Hossain has continued to post messages approving of attacks on Canadian troops.*

Saying anti-war protests "will do sh$$," he describes a "mass casualty" attack on the home-front as "a well considered option" and "the best way to compel western soldiers to get out of Afghanistan/Iraq."

Such an attack "would be fantastic and would get the job done," he writes.* "If someone gets the bright idea of committing such a wonderful act, it's NOT my responsibility in any way, shape or form."*
*
He wrote, "I enjoy watching the blood flow from the western troops," and during Defence Minister Peter Mac-Kay's Christmas week visit to Kandahar, he wrote: "I pray that the Taliban kill our Mackay motherf---er."*

*In other postings, he wishes "a merry 9-11, and I wish y'all many more merry 9-11s"; says "the Jews are literally the most treacherous nation on the face of the Earth"; says "I hate the Jews"; and claims "the filthy Jews carried out 9-11."*

He rails at police, saying "you can't charge me for possessing a thought" and writes that he *"honestly got a kick outta pissing off the RCMP  HAHAHA  i was laughing my ass off for provoking the RCMP."*

The case comes as Canadian security agencies are struggling to deal with extremism among a minority of Muslim Canadians, particularly youths. Intelligence analysts believe much of this radicalization is occurring on the Internet.

*"So what we are in the presence of is a ranter, informed by the usual conspiratorial views that are unfortunately part and parcel of extremist Islamist thought -- especially the core anti-Semitic notion of a giant Jewish conspiracy," said Professor Wesley Wark, a Canadian security expert.*

*But he said while the language is violent and crude, it is probably harmless venting. *"On the other hand, there is always a worry that such speech could tip over into action by this person or others of like mind."

The RCMP would not comment on the probe, saying sensitive matters of national security were involved, but spokeswoman Corporal Cathy McCrory said the government was "committed to ensuring the safety and security of citizens and we will not tolerate those that seek to harm Canadians."
*
Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA) does not specifically outlaw incitement of terrorism, although such a measure has been discussed by MPs.*

Prof. Work, visiting research professor at the University of Ottawa School of Public and International Affair, said a debate on the topic is needed.

"It's high time we had a proper public airing of the pros and cons of further reforms to the ATA, including an incitement clause, and a public airing of the nature of legal powers needed to ensure prompt and effective monitoring of potentially harmful Internet traffic."

A few days after Mr. Hossain wrote that "we should do" a Ramstein-type plot in Canada, the RCMP contacted him. He spoke to them on Sept. 18 at his lawyer's office.
*
He later posted messages saying he was under police investigation, but he said that "cheerleading" for Muslim insurgents in Afghanistan "is every Muslim's right."*

Although he did not tone down his rhetoric, he did make one change: His comments are now sometimes followed by a disclaimer that says he is not inciting violence but merely "suggesting" scenarios and he is not responsible if they actually happen.

"I don't see how the right to free speech includes deliberate

incitement to violence," said Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University professor and a leading international expert on terrorism, after reading the postings.

*"One would think that [Canadian soldiers] are owed more than, 'Well, I don't think we can secure a conviction.' How demoralizing is it for soldiers to find out that people are openly advocating terrorism against them and yet the government who they serve won't do anything about it because it's either too much trouble or there's no guarantee they're going to succeed?"*
*
Prof. Hoffman said the postings remind him of the material that incited Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. "Reading those, I was wondering, is there any Western country that would tolerate people posting things talking about staging attacks like this?"*

He said that while there was no guarantee a criminal case would succeed, prosecutors might want to go ahead anyway, if only to send a message that* "you can't openly advocate the murder of Canadian soldiers.*

Four months after he met RCMP officers at his lawyer's office, the Mississauga man continues to make provocative postings. On Jan. 17, he wrote that, "If the Taliban had the capability to attack our troops in our own soil, which I personally hope they do in the future, then these pussies will be dead scared of sending any more troops in2 Afghanistan."

sbell@nationalpost.com

---

BACK STORY

An Internet posting from Oct. 29, 2007, in which Salman Hossain imagines, presumably tongue-in-cheek, how the RCMP would describe him:

WANTED!!! DEAD OR ALIVE  - Considered armed and/or dangerous  may be considering taking a trip to Afghanistan on G-Haad training. If not, possibly wired with explosives threatening to blow up Parliament Hill, and threatening attacks on NATO-National Army bases around the nation or perhaps overseas. He is wanted in connection with the attacks that have killed 70+ troops so far. Please hand him over to relevant authorities otherwise he may blow himself up in your face. If you do see him with perhaps heavy clothing -- PLEASE call your local bomb disposal unit and the SWAT team along with the National Army. Potential future Bin Laden!!! - Height: 5'5" - Weight: 135 lbs - Tastes: Enjoys prayer, perfume and/or women. - Dislikes: Jews, Terrorists, Apes, Pigs (refrains from eating), Mossad, Zionists, Bankers, Moneylenders, anything Israeli in nature, Black op Merceneries [Sic], Media-men, Jewish supremacists, anything Kosher, Synagogues, rabbis and other holy crooks pretending to be Saviours from God, and of course last but not least the F---ING TALMUD. - Ambition:Willing to martyr himself in kamekaze [Sic] attack. - Any physical peculiarities: Has tattoos on his arm claiming "God is Great" in Arabic. - Under investigation for: 1. Inciting hate speech 2. Uttering death threats 3. Facilitating terrorism.

Close
Reader Discussion




.... I could have highlighted the whole thing...


----------



## FascistLibertarian

This guy sounds like a total wackjob. Reading what he wrote, its crazy that a person could see the world like that. Im not sure if I should hate him or pity him.
He is probably some skinny loser wannabe poser with acne who has no friends and sits up at night typing bs on an online fourm. Based on what hes written, I dont think anyone is going to have their views changed by that garbage, the only people who would like it would probably already be in his radical islamic.
The again who really knows.
I wonder if it would be possible to have a rational conversation with him?


----------



## The Bread Guy

And here we be, the posting in question:  



> ...the world has become 1, and much smaller now thanks to globalization, Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are LEGITIMATE targets to be killed. A hundred years ago, this wouldn't have been possible. Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!!!
> 
> ...believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdraw from Afghanistan, and it would save more $$$, resources, and human lives. If 200 of our boys died in one attack and we withdrew, it would be a lot LESS than 10 to 20 of them getting killed per month over 2 years.... I betcha the number of our troops dead in Afghanistan is a lot MORE than is admitted in our Jew controlled media or admitted by the military.
> Salman Hossain | 09.05.07 - 11:08 pm | #



He covers his six (only a bit) in another thread apparently posted later:



> ...if the US/NATO has military bases on the MOON, they are still legitimate target of the mujahideen - so RCMP get it off your heads that by allowing our government to start a war, we should have a right to feel "safe"...whatever that means!!!
> 
> RCMP DISCLAIMER (once again!!!) : I am not suggesting any individual commit violent acts. I am not inciting or encouraging any one to commit violent acts, but I'm suggesting hypothetical, rhetorical, and theoretical scenarios on what is justified in a war. If such were to occur, then I'm in no way, shape, or form responsible and such acts are purely co-incidental and to be expected from those who perpetrate war from afar!!!
> Salman Hossain | 09.12.07 - 1:41 pm | #


----------



## MAJONES

It is ....interesting ..... that the RCMP are treating Hossain with such kid gloves.  If you were to replace 'soldiers' with any other identifiable group Hossain would already be in court.


----------



## SprCForr

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> ...Human rights complaint?  Not likely, given the definition of who's protected.....



What about under the National origin part? Could being an identifiable group within Canadian society meet their standard? Would describing the CF as "Western" make it a cultural issue? They seem to be flexible WRT the complaints and I figured someone clever could present it as such. He does however certainly mention the Jewish religion in his spew and wouldn't a CF member of that faith have grounds based on that? 

I knew it was a reach, but given the frivilous nature of some of the cases they take, I figured it was a way to at least sting the guy a little.


----------



## blacktriangle

I doubt anyone worthy of this nation will care if he dissapears...


----------



## The Bread Guy

SprCForr said:
			
		

> What about under the National origin part? Could being an identifiable group within Canadian society meet their standard? Would describing the CF as "Western" make it a cultural issue? They seem to be flexible WRT the complaints and I figured someone clever could present it as such. He does however certainly mention the Jewish religion in his spew and wouldn't a CF member of that faith have grounds based on that?
> 
> I knew it was a reach, but given the frivilous nature of some of the cases they take, I figured it was a way to at least sting the guy a little.



CAVEAT:  I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like if he'd threatened Muslim members of the CF, MAYBE there would have been a rights case.  Don't think "Western" is specific enough as a race or ethnic group, though.



			
				MAJONES said:
			
		

> It is ....interesting ..... that the RCMP are treating Hossain with such kid gloves.  If you were to replace 'soldiers' with any other identifiable group Hossain would already be in court.



I'm guessing that for the RCMP, as for most police services, it's all about "what can we prove in court?" and "what do we have a reasonable chance of getting a guilty verdict on?"


----------



## George Wallace

SweetNavyJustice said:
			
		

> Oh, his name is Salman Hossain and he's a member of the University of Toronto Muslim Association.
> 
> As a note, his name comes from open source reporting:  http://www.mississauga.com/article/10748



Say?

Aren't those the same wack jobs who are suing MacLeans magazine, and bankrupted the Western Standard through Legal Suits that Ezra Levant is fighting?


----------



## tech2002

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I doubt anyone worthy of this nation will care if he dissapears...



 > ;D


----------



## RHFC_piper

Wow... I'm actually disgusted.   

So, this guy enjoys free speech, only to use it to advocate an attack on those who provide it...  Wow.

Give this man a one way ticket to the Astan and let him 'join the fight' on the front line.




Reading his ranting actually made me feel ill.


----------



## tech2002

I wonder what would happen to him if he said that in US about US forces..


----------



## Mike Baker

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Wow... I'm actually disgusted.


+1. I know what this guy needs, and it isn't nice.


----------



## OkotoksRookie

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Wow... I'm actually disgusted.
> 
> So, this guy enjoys free speech, only to use it to advocate an attack on those who provide it...  Wow.
> 
> Give this man a one way ticket to the Astan and let him 'join the fight' on the front line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reading his ranting actually made me feel ill.


Not only is he enjoying it... he's out right abusing it. 
And I thought I was mad the first time I read the article.... second time around is worse!
I'm horrified he hasn't been punished for writing these things. His little bs disclaimer at the end of his posts shows us how he lacks the stones to really believe the hate spewing from his cake-hole. :rage:


----------



## the 48th regulator

tech2002 said:
			
		

> I wonder what would happen to him if he said that in US about US forces..



You lost me here, why do you wonder that??

dileas

tess


----------



## slowmode

This mans living on OUR soil, living under OUR laws and being protected by OUR soldiers..how dare he talk like this. Free Speech has a limit, and that limit is when your talking about the death of soldiers that are protecting you. This man should either

1. Best sent to jail
2. Be deported 
3. I honestly dont know this is frustrating me

How dare he speak like this and claiming it to be free speech. This man is a disgrace to all Muslims, how dare he call him self Muslim.  :-X


----------



## CrazyCanuck

How bout we just sentence him to community service on the nearest CF base and see how much fun he has there?


----------



## Roy Harding

I've been following this thread - and yes, I'm disgusted with this character.

BUT - as some have pointed out (and I realize that none making the comments are lawyers) - he's either not guilty of anything, or the RCMP feel there's not enough evidence to gain a conviction.  So - "sentencing him" to ANYTHING, including community service, is a non-starter.

MOST guys like this are attention sluts - if they don't get attention they slink back under the rock they crawled out from under.  As long as they're getting attention, they'll continue spouting off.  As for those few guys like this who ARE a danger, I tend to trust the RCMP to keep an eye on them, and intervene when necessary and LEGAL.

Violence by me (no matter how much I may personally feel it is warranted), or incitement by me of others to violence against this cockroach only puts me in the same league with him - and it's not a league that I  - or, I would hope, ANY member of the CF aspires to.

Just a thought.


----------



## Armymedic

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> http://dustmybroom.com/
> 
> Has info and comments on the article



And he has a Facebook account:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Salman_Hossain/644081082

Those with Facebook-fu, have a fun day...  >


----------



## Armymedic

On the serious side, I think this quote can and should be used in not only a criminal case, but someone should bring it forth to the Ontario Human Rights commision. The thought of killing a group of people for political gain heards back as a loose defination of inciting genocide.


----------



## vonGarvin

This guy is not talking genocide.  He is not talking "human rights" and there is only one reason he's not already picked up: he's a minority and people are "sensitive" to be viewed as suppressing someone's "human rights".
If someone in WWII were walking in Canada advocating for ethnic germans to kill canadian soldiers in Canada, well, that guy would have been silenced and locked up and possibly tried for treason.
I feel that someone "up there" should reach down, see if they have a pair, and then act accordingly.  Such talk is in my opinion just not tolerable in time of war.


----------



## Roy Harding

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> This guy is not talking genocide.  He is not talking "human rights" and there is only one reason he's not already picked up: he's a minority and people are "sensitive" to be viewed as suppressing someone's "human rights".
> If someone in WWII were walking in Canada advocating for ethnic germans to kill canadian soldiers in Canada, well, that guy would have been silenced and locked up and possibly tried for treason.
> I feel that someone "up there" should reach down, see if they have a pair, and then act accordingly.  Such talk is in my opinion just not tolerable in time of war.



I tend to agree with you.  I just feel that the "someone" who should be getting a grip on this character is the RCMP - in whom I have great faith.  And I'm sure that the minute he steps over a legal line, they will do so.  He's already on their radar.


----------



## Armymedic

I am sure that if quoting someone else say a group is "breeding like mosquitoes" is worthy of a Human rights complaint, then this statement should ring alarm bells:

from the highlighted link:


> In other postings, he wishes "a merry 9-11, and I wish y'all many more merry 9-11s"; says "the Jews are literally the most treacherous nation on the face of the Earth"; says "I hate the Jews"; and claims "the filthy Jews carried out 9-11."


----------



## Trinity

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I tend to agree with you.  I just feel that the "someone" who should be getting a grip on this character is the RCMP - in whom I have great faith.  And I'm sure that the minute he steps over a legal line, they will do so.  He's already on their radar.



UNLESS... he's part of something bigger.  And they're just letting him lead them further into something.

No point in arresting him if he's not a flight risk or about to cause harm or damage.  I suspect they would let
him continue to lead them into more info / evidence for a while.


----------



## Roy Harding

Trinity said:
			
		

> UNLESS... he's part of something bigger.  And they're just letting him lead them further into something.
> 
> No point in arresting him if he's not a flight risk or about to cause harm or damage.  I suspect they would let
> him continue to lead them into more info / evidence for a while.



Partially why I'm in favour of letting the RCMP do their job - and in the MEANTIME, ignoring this idiot - he doesn't need the attention, he's already had too much.


----------



## Bigmac

From the Criminal Code of Canada:



> Hoax Regarding Terrorist Activity
> Hoax — terrorist activity
> 
> 83.231 (1) *Every one commits an offence who, without lawful excuse and with intent to cause any person to fear death, bodily harm*, substantial damage to property or serious interference with the lawful use or operation of property,
> 
> (a) *conveys or causes or procures to be conveyed information that, in all the circumstances, is likely to cause a reasonable apprehension that terrorist activity is occurring or will occur, without believing the information to be true*; or
> 
> (b) *commits an act that, in all the circumstances, is likely to cause a reasonable apprehension that terrorist activity is occurring or will occur, without believing that such activity is occurring or will occur.*
> 
> Punishment
> 
> (2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of
> (a) *an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years;* or
> 
> (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
> 
> Causing bodily harm
> 
> (3) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) and thereby causes bodily harm to any other person is guilty of
> (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or
> 
> (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.
> 
> Causing death
> 
> (4) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) and thereby causes the death of any other person is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.
> 2004, c. 15, s. 32.



http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_II_1-gb:s_83_231//en#anchorbo-ga:l_II_1-gb:s_83_231

He can also be charged with spreading hate propaganda via the internet. My guess is the RCMP is waiting for him to give them something more substantial or lead them to the bigger fish who is inspiring him.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Bigmac said:
			
		

> give ten minutes, some dental floss, a foot of lawn trimmer string, an assortment of nuts and bolts, and he'll tell us anything we want to know....


----------



## karl28

Wow its creep like this that make me  want to puke .  The fact that he hasn't been charged yet is cause for more concern . I just hope that it's cause the RCMP want to make sure that they can nail his back side to the wall when they do charge him .


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

He's harmless because he's vocal about it.  Its the quiet ones I would be worried about.


----------



## Trinity

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> He's harmless because he's vocal about it.  Its the quiet ones I would be worried about.



Sadly, the the VOCAL ones that encourage the QUIET ones!!!


----------



## Mud

I agree with you completely, Lone Wolf Quagmire, still he's a pretty vile form of life.  RCMP did a great job of breaking up the terror plot in Toronto a couple of years ago, it's good to hear they're monitoring this wingnut and hopefully he'll cross the line soon and get busted.  

Guys like this may find it a bit harder to talk like this when the trial of those terror suspects starts, (this year I think) and the public are reminded of the kind of dangers that are around us right here at home...at least I hope that's what happens.


----------



## Blakey

Spread the word: 


> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21795853896
> Group Info Name: Expel or Suspend Salman Hossain
> Type: Organizations - Advocacy Organizations
> Description: Salman Hossain is currently a University of Toronto Mississauga (UTM) student and a member of the UTM Muslim Association.
> 
> He ought to be expelled or at least suspended for his actions which:
> 
> 1. Tarnishes the name of the University of Toronto
> 2. Tarnishes Islam and Canadian Muslims
> 
> Contact Info City/Town: Toronto, ON


----------



## Lumber

Trinity said:
			
		

> Sadly, the the VOCAL ones that encourage the QUIET ones!!!



"It's the quiet ones you have to keep an eye on." I have a problem with this common notion. I bet you that while everyone is paying attention to the quiet one, a loud is going to sneak up on you and BANG!
- paraphrased from George Carlin

Now seriously though, consider that the article says:

"The case comes as Canadian security agencies are struggling to deal with extremism among a minority of Muslim Canadians, particularly youths. Intelligence analysts believe much of this radicalization is occurring on the Internet."

If we take away someones right to incite this kind of violence, this kind of radical Islamic thought, both vocally and in avenues such as the internet, churches, mosques, news papers etc., then would we not be helping to abate the proliferation of such radical jihadist thought? Don't just make it illegal to incite this kind of hate and violence in a Blog, make it down right illegal to utter in a mosque service (if that's what they call it, I don't know I'm not even christian), on TV, in a news paper, on a sign during an antiwar protest. Seriously, have the next guy who writes "those who insult the prophet will be beheaded" and marches around with it thrown in jail for 10 years, and then see how many people are still throwing this kind of sick, treasonous rhetoric around! 

GRRR This guy makes me want to ****ing break something! AGH!!!!!!   :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:


----------



## the 48th regulator

karl28 said:
			
		

> Wow its creep like this that make me  want to puke .  The fact that he hasn't been charged yet is cause for more concern . I just hope that it's cause the RCMP want to make sure that they can nail his back side to the wall when they do charge him .



It is called due process,

RCMP jump into charging him without dotting I and Crossing T's, this characters lawyers will have him out faster than a drug dealer from Malvern.

Kudos on them, and the those that are looking in on this.

dileas

tess


----------



## Roy Harding

NCdt Lumber said:
			
		

> "It's the quiet ones you have to keep an eye on." I have a problem with this common notion. I bet you that while everyone is paying attention to the quiet one, a loud is going to sneak up on you and BANG!
> - paraphrased from George Carlin
> 
> Now seriously though, consider that the article says:
> 
> "The case comes as Canadian security agencies are struggling to deal with extremism among a minority of Muslim Canadians, particularly youths. Intelligence analysts believe much of this radicalization is occurring on the Internet."
> 
> If we take away someones right to incite this kind of violence, this kind of radical Islamic thought, both vocally and in avenues such as the internet, churches, mosques, news papers etc., then would we not be helping to abate the proliferation of such radical jihadist thought? Don't just make it illegal to incite this kind of hate and violence in a Blog, make it down right illegal to utter in a mosque service (if that's what they call it, I don't know I'm not even christian), on TV, in a news paper, on a sign during an antiwar protest. Seriously, have the next guy who writes "those who insult the prophet will be beheaded" and marches around with it thrown in jail for 10 years, and then see how many people are still throwing this kind of sick, treasonous rhetoric around!
> 
> GRRR This guy makes me want to ****ing break something! AGH!!!!!!   :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:



And if we take away NCdt/OCDT's right to spout this kind of ignorance, both vocally and in avenues such as the internet, churches, RMC, Milnet.ca, etc, then would we not be helping to abate the proliferation of such idiotic thought?

This is CANADA, dimbulb - you don't get put away for what you MIGHT do or for what you THINK.  Nor do you get put away for being an idiot.

Be careful whose freedoms you want to restrict - yours may be next.

As much as I dislike what this asshole is saying and espousing, I refuse to advocate for his lynching - there is such a thing as due process of law - let the RCMP do their job.


----------



## Old Ranger

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Be careful whose freedoms you want to restrict - yours may be next.
> 
> As much as I dislike what this ******* is saying and espousing, I refuse to advocate for his lynching - there is such a thing as due process of law - let the RCMP do their job.



Refreshing to hear you state it again


----------



## Roy Harding

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> Refreshing to hear you state it again



I AM getting repetitive here, aren't I.

I'll do my best to stop.


----------



## Old Ranger

Some important things need repeating


Edit: SP, had to run out on a cancelled Emerg call


----------



## JesseWZ

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I AM getting repetitive here, aren't I.
> 
> I'll do my best to stop.


Actually Roy I think you should repeat it as often as you can here, without trolling of course, and then go on National Television and do the same. Often.


----------



## Flip

> I'm guessing that for the RCMP, as for most police services, it's all about "what can we prove in court?" and "what do we have a reasonable chance of getting a guilty verdict on?"



I suspect they are simply waiting for him to get all cocky and do something really stupid.
Once the media advertise a bit for him he'll try to stir the pot until it spills.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Complain to the Human Rights Commision. If they can make someone's life miserable for publishing a cartoon, they should be able to have a field day with this guy.


----------



## armyvern

recceguy said:
			
		

> Complain to the Human Rights Commision. If they can make someone's life miserable for publishing a cartoon, they should be able to have a field day with this guy.



One of the Prohibited Grounds ... "Family Status"

Hmmm, "the CF isn't just a job, it's a *lifestyle*. 24/7 we are one huge *Military Family*."  >

Cripes, if I were a lawyer -- I'd be just warped enough to draft up an HR complaint on this fucktard based on my being part of the Military family. Never as warped as this POS though.


----------



## Reccesoldier

Using the HRC just lends credibility to the kangaroo court.  Charge him in a real court of law and return to sender.  Lets see how much he likes being unemployed in Bangladesh.


----------



## Nemo888

If I said that Muslims who support violence on Canadian soil are legitimate targets I'd be court marshalled. Bit of a double standard.


----------



## a_majoor

Calling for a lynching will only get the callers in trouble.

Canada and the West remain strong so long as we continue to observe the Rule of Law.

The proper authorities have indicated they are watching (and I suspect any real terrorists like the AQ and Taliban sympathizers here in Canada would probably steer clear of a mouthpiece like that anyway). While his speech is offensive in many regards, I think of it as the impotent rantings of a powerless and cowardly individual who wants to associate himself to a perceived source of power (even though these people would never have anything to do with him either).


----------



## Lumber

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> As much as I dislike what this ******* is saying and espousing, I refuse to advocate for his lynching - there is such a thing as due process of law - let the RCMP do their job.



I'm not sure if you're still addressing me here, but I never advocated his "lynching" either. As with you, I believe in the rule of law. What I did advocate, however, was an increase in the 'exceptions' list for freedom of speech. 

As for not getting thrown away for what you "might" do or what you "think", I completely agree! It's when you publish your "thoughts" and discuss what you "might" do that you get thrown away. Talking about "maybe" blowing up this or that, publishing material harmful to ones religion. Ernst Zundel ring a bell? He never "did" anything except publish his thoughts about the holocaust, and wound up in jail several times for it.

What I was advocating was harsher punishments for such ignorant and hateful rhetoric. As soldiers we are willing to sacrifice our lives, as many already have, for the sake of preserving the wonderful society we live in today. Can we not make the moral, conscience-hurting sacrifice of locking up individuals for periods that conventional thought would consider "out of proportion?" Most of the people spewing this hate receive nothing but contempt from the majority, as can be clearly seen from this topic. If were willing to sacrifice the lives of good hearted soldiers for the sake of the preservation and stability of our society, should we not be able to lock away a few of society's leeches?!

Oh and as an aside, as retired WO and an adult I expected a lot more from you. While I have little experience, I've seen nothing but absolute professionalism from every NCO I've had the pleasure of working with. You on the other hand need to grow up and get off your thrown, your not the best or the brightest. I was trying to add to the discusion with tact and prudence, and you respond by insult, calling my words idiocy and calling me a dumblub? I take criticism very well, so long as it's constructive, and I've been told so by a WO (well, a PO2 but who's counting). Disagree if you feel its appropriate, I agree my recommendation was definitely unconventional. But attack my words, not me.


----------



## Command-Sense-Act 105

NCdt Lumber said:
			
		

> Oh and as an aside, as retired WO and an adult I expected a lot more from you.... grow up and get off your thrown.... *attack my words, not me.*



NCdt Lumber, understand you may be a bit hot under the collar but you may wish to follow your own advice.

And to prevent allegations of a "DS Dogpile" against the posters:


> This is CANADA, dimbulb -


Don't think we needed that one either, Roy.

Gents, maybe a night back to corners to cool off?  

I think you're both in agreement, but NCdt Lumber, you are not coming across clearly about your support of rule of law.  Reading your original post that Roy responded to, it struck me as being more upon the lines of advocating "vigilante thought crime hit squads".  Thanks for clarifying with your latest but maybe we need a rest on this one for a bit as it's getting emotive.

*The Army.ca staff*


----------



## 1feral1

alfie said:
			
		

> http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=272528
> The National Post is running a story to day about a Bangladeshi-Canadian, one of his quotes is
> "Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are legitimate targets to be killed.  Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!! ... believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdrawn from Afghanistan."
> 
> What a waste of the human gene pool.



The best thing going would be how this grub fell through some thin ice while taking a sort cut (hint hint). Its still winter, and I have some extra SCUBA weights too.

This so called human being (used loosely - and he is far from being a man) should be locked up, and fed a steady diet of ham sandwiches for the next 75 years. Oh sorry, the LWL (limp wristed left) tell me he has rights. Well phuck his rights. What about ours???

Cheers,

Wes

PS 

He can always find a job with the NDP

Yes, and what do any muslim community leaders have to say??? NOTHING, why am I not suprised.

Are they Canadians?

Or are they muslims living in Canada. 

Shyte, or get offf the squat toilet!


----------



## Flip

> He can always find a job with the NDP


 ;D

As their new leader?


----------



## Roy Harding

CSA 105 is correct - I should not have stooped to personal name calling.  I apologize to NCdt Lumber and anyone else who may have been insulted by my unthinking remark - no personal slight was intended - and I realize that a personal slight was given - I regret that.

I will reiterate, however, that I believe that this is a country of laws - and vigilantism (even theoretical vigilantism such as has been displayed in this thread) has no place in our society.

It disturbs me to watch people, who I otherwise think well of and respect, call for vigilante action.  Surely we're above that - surely we've all fought for better than such tripe?  Surely, we aren't the same as "them"?


----------



## Theskoalbandit

The NDP's new star candidate in the election


----------



## Roy Harding

Theskoalbandit said:
			
		

> The NDP's new star candidate in the election



To whom do you refer?

If to me, you and I will take it to PMs


----------



## tech2002

he has been doing that for 2-3 years now, some of the postings on other sites dates back to 2004, both RCMP and CSIS have visited him in the past, as he commented that, so this is not a first time, none of his friends are stopping what he is doing, or even the "muslism association he belongs to does nothing to stop him , he will continue until someone from Pakistan or Afghanistan will hear him and will post a message on one their websites praise him for his efforts of hate to western countries.. I have feeling this is what he is trying to achieve ..


----------



## Rodahn

I've been following this thread with interest, and have seen some wonderful (and not so wonderful) ideas for this *"Person"*. 

Just as an aside, I wonder being as the legal system is treating him with "kid gloves" how difficult it would be to have him brought in for a psychiatric evaluation? And if said evaluation found any glimmer of instability, how difficult it would be to lock him up in a padded room for an indefinite period of time.

If we can't get him legally, how about medically?


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

I'm surprised that the Jewish Congress hasn't piped up about his hateful comments against the Jewish community. Maybe I'm missing that due to our/my  focus on his terrible comments about the military. I just hope they are keeping a close watch on this guy. I think he's probably a waste of time but as pointed out he may lead them into some interesting little side streets.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Just some dick face making brash comments to get attention. Reminds me of 15 year old kids on gaming sites.
Holocaust didn't happen! Oh watch the drama unfold.

Some of us become doctors, teachers policemen and firefighters to make a difference. Some join the military and serve overseas. Others sit in the safty (bought by others) of a classroom and spout off.

The fact that a dink like this can make comments like this and not be put in a steel box and shot full of holes proves to me Canada as a country is doing something right.


----------



## TheHead

And look at what I Found...


http://www.facebook.com/people/Salman_Hossain/644081082


----------



## the 48th regulator

TheHead said:
			
		

> And look at what I Found...
> 
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/people/Salman_Hossain/644081082



Was that after you read this post....



			
				St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> And he has a Facebook account:
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/people/Salman_Hossain/644081082
> 
> Those with Facebook-fu, have a fun day...  >



dileas

tess


----------



## c_canuk

we should start a new reality tv show called "so you want to be a terrist?" where we round up all people of his ilk, and airdrop them into a taliban stronghold so they can put their money where their mouth is.

I'm sure once the harsh reality hits they'll change their tune, if they get a chance.

I don't think it would last more than 3 or 4 episodes though, I'm sure the supply of vocal extremist wannabe's would dry up fast.


----------



## Haggis

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> To whom do you refer?
> 
> If to me, you and I will take it to PMs



I certainly didn't read it that way.  As I see it he refers to Salman Hossain, "our newest fan", as a potential NDP candidate.

You NDP???

Naaaah!


----------



## Lumber

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> It disturbs me to watch people, who I otherwise think well of and respect, call for vigilante action.  Surely we're above that - surely we've all fought for better than such tripe?  Surely, we aren't the same as "them"?



While many other have advocated vigilante action, I did not advocate it either. If my first post could be construded as such, my mistake, although I believe my second one is a far bit clearly. While my first was less articulate, I was essentially trying to advocate harsher punishments (or any punishments at all) for actions that often go un or under punished. 

I appologize as well for telling you to grow up. I was, as CSA pointed out, a little hot under the collar.


----------



## Rayman

I personally think hes just an ignorant loud mouth who thinks he knows it all. Its sad but things like this go on everyday. Going to highschool (I was in grade 10) on one Rememberance Day memorial a peer of mine blurted out during the moment of silence "This is stupid! Why do we have to stand for some dead white guy who never did notin' for me!" I felt like replying "Its cause of "that dead white guy" that you and your family were able to move here and are not yelling Seige Heil" ....Of course that gets you one on one time with her 20 something boyfriend and 10 of his friends. 

Another instance was when I saw a group of students who were of a Asian decent yelling in the high school parking lot....while urinating on and setting fire to an American flag. 

I think some of these people are just ignorant. Its funny when you try and have a discussion on the war and such and "why we are there" they are the first ones to say we shouldnt because "they never did anything to us." Then you mention the 24 Canadians killed in 9/11, and the plot to bomb a subway station and its almost as if its a universal automated response because the next thing they say is "well thats the US's fault....if they didnt open their mouths and attack everybody." At that point I just dont bother because like they say "You cant fix stupid."

If ignorance is bliss....depression must be on a down fall.


----------



## Roy Harding

NCdt Lumber said:
			
		

> While many other have advocated vigilante action, I did not advocate it either. If my first post could be construded as such, my mistake, although I believe my second one is a far bit clearly. While my first was less articulate, I was essentially trying to advocate harsher punishments (or any punishments at all) for actions that often go un or under punished.
> 
> I appologize as well for telling you to grow up. I was, as CSA pointed out, a little hot under the collar.



Fair enough.

This is a subject which gets all of us hot under the collar.

Ain't it great that we can discuss the whole thing, including making inflammatory remarks (and I include myself here), without fear?


----------



## Thompson_JM

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Fair enough.
> 
> This is a subject which gets all of us hot under the collar.
> 
> Ain't it great that we can discuss the whole thing, including making inflammatory remarks (and I include myself here), without fear?



I like even more then that, how when peoples tempers do get heated, we can all pull back, take a breather, and handle it like mature adults too! one more reason why I like this place so much.  ;D

I have alot of things Id like to see done with this mouth breather... 

That being said, I'll leave it to the RCMP to do their Job and hopefully this twerp will just fade into obscurity..... and if he's reading this, then I have this to say to him.

"Thank you for Validating my Job. because of clowns like you, I know what I do for a living is working..."

but I still wouldnt P*** on him if he was on fire.....

Regards
      Tommy


----------



## McG

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> He's harmless because he's vocal about it.


He is an attention junkie, and if he stops feeling his fill on the attention he's drawing then he may very well become dangerous.  I would hope that public endorsements of violence on Canadian soldiers are sufficient to detain somebody on a national security ticket.  If he’s not locked up by the RCMP, we may not get warning when he slips into that need for more attention and so acts on his preaching.



			
				milnewstbay said:
			
		

> He covers his six (only a bit) in another thread apparently posted later:


 That he is going to great lengths to show that he is not trying to encourage acts of violence, it suggest to me that he knows (and wants for) his postings to have an effect of inspiring somebody to violence.  He may as well wrap-up with a “Know what I mean? Know what I mean?  Wink wink, nudge nudge. Know what I mean?”


----------



## Roy Harding

Haggis said:
			
		

> I certainly didn't read it that way.  As I see it he refers to Salman Hossain, "our newest fan", as a potential NDP candidate.
> 
> You NDP???
> 
> Naaaah!



I'll pull in my horns.


----------



## TheHead

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Was that after you read this post....
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



No I read the first few posts and went out looking for it.  My bad.  There is also a facebook group out there for his expulsion from UofT.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

TheHead said:
			
		

> No I read the first few posts and went out looking for it.  My bad.  There is also a facebook group out there for his expulsion from UofT.



Where do we sign up? I'm sure many here would like to see that too.


----------



## KevinB

The bumper of my surburban may be able to fix this guys attitude...


----------



## FascistLibertarian

This guy is a terrorist like white bois in the burbs who wear baggy clothing and listen to rap are bloods.
He is a terrorist like people who say "we should nuke the middle east" are right wing.
This guys a poser, we have given him too much attention already.
Im sure the real terrorists see him either as a joke or as someone who is stupid and can be manipulated.


----------



## tabernac

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> Where do we sign up? I'm sure many here would like to see that too.



If you, like me, want to draw some attention to this idiot (Salman) this is the Facebook group. >> http://hs.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21795853896&ref=share


----------



## Edward Campbell

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act, is an opinion piece by Lorne Gunter from the _National Post_ with which I fully agree:

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=278535&p=2


> The right to be loathsome
> *Censoring Hossain would be just as unprincipled as censoring Levant or Steyn*
> 
> Lorne Gunter, National Post  Published: Friday, February 01, 2008
> 
> The tough thing about free speech is that the only true test of one's belief in it comes from defending those one most vehemently opposes -- not merely those one agrees with. The case of Salman Hossain, a Bangladeshi-Canadian university student from Mississauga, Ont., illustrates my point.
> 
> This past Monday, I penned a column castigating Canada's politically correct bureaucrats, politicians and human rights investigators for abandoning the free-speech tenets of Western civilization in the face of a few loud complaints made by radical Islamists against writers they felt had slighted their faith. Ezra Levant and Mark Steyn are two prominent victims of this "suicide by tolerance," whereby governments and human rights commissions permit the desire of favoured interest groups not to be offended to trump our ancient and immutable right to free speech.
> 
> Then on Wednesday, the National Post's Stewart Bell exposed Mr. Hossain as a troop-hating, terrorist-sympathizing pimple who has recently been posting Internet death wishes against Canadian soldiers, civilians and politicians.
> 
> Many readers put two and two together -- my Monday column and Stewart's Wednesday article -- and wrote me saying, "You were right about our elites' unwillingness to defend our traditions, just look at the way they are refusing to act against Salman Hossain." But, frankly, that's not what I meant at all.
> 
> Mr. Hossain's remarks are vile -- both disturbed and disturbing. He has argued that the "best way" to get our troops out of Afghanistan is a "mass casualty" terror attack on Canadian civilians or soldiers here in Canada. "Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil," are "legitimate" targets for "Muslim militants." Our casualties in Afghanistan are "well deserved" because "if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdraw."
> 
> When police in Germany last year arrested Muslim militants plotting to blow up the Ram-stein Air Base, Mr. Hossain called them his "German brothers" and crowed, "We should do that here in Canada as well. Kill as many Western soldiers as well so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters." And when Defence Minister Peter MacKay was visiting troops in Afghanistan at Christmas, he wrote on a chat site, "I pray that the Taliban kill our MacKay motherf---er."
> 
> Mr. Hossain's worldview is repugnant. His arguments cannot go unanswered. But the instinct to arrest him for his views is as much a threat to free speech as the willingness of Canada's various human rights witch-hunters to bully Messrs. Levant and Steyn into silence.
> 
> My number-one point about free speech is: We don't want state functionaries determining which political opinions are and are not legitimate to express. In order to prevent your opinions and mine from being deemed illegitimate some day, we must today permit Salman Hossain to indulge in his malevolent rantings.
> 
> While he comes close to counselling others to commit criminal acts, he never quite crosses the line into incitement of a criminal offence. If he ever did, we have laws to deal with that, and he should be prosecuted under them to their full extent. But so far, this cheerleader for murder, dismemberment and mayhem has merely revelled in a desire for violence, he hasn't actually plotted to commit any or have others commit some.
> 
> In one of the most important free-speech cases to be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court -- 1969's Brandenburg vs. Ohio -- Clarence Brandenburg, a Ku Klux Klan leader with views comparable to Mr. Hossain's in their de-testability -- was acquitted of "advocating  crime, sabotage, violence or unlawful methods of terrorism" after giving speeches calling for "revengeance" against blacks and Jews. As the justices unanimously agreed, free speech could only be curtailed when it degenerated into "incitement to imminent lawless action." Government "cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation."
> 
> Our governments would be failing our Western traditions if they refused to surveil Mr. Hossain. His obnoxious writings have earned him police suspicion of his potential to commit terrorism or spur on those who would. But governments would also be weakening the rights of all of us if they tried to shut up this hateful creature before he crossed the line into criminal conspiracy.
> 
> _lgunter@shaw.ca_



The keys points are:

•	“the instinct to arrest him [_Hossain_] for his views is as much a threat to free speech as the willingness of Canada's various human rights witch-hunters to bully Messrs. Levant and Steyn into silence”;

•	“We don't want state functionaries determining which political opinions are and are not legitimate to express;” amd

•	“governments would also be weakening the rights of all of us if they tried to shut up this hateful creature before he crossed the line into criminal conspiracy.”

There are far too many “summer soldiers” in the war for our fundamental freedoms. In their zeal to shield our Jewish friends from further hate-filled lies (the lies that lead to a Holocaust) the “human rights” _industry_ has seriously eroded our fundamental values – the ones that, in the final analysis, distinguished us (and distinguish us still) from the fascists and Nazis and Marxist-Leninists. We need real protectors of our “human rights” – people who will defend the most odious amongst us, until they actually break the law.

In my view, most of the comments on this thread are from the “sunshine patriots” - those who do not really understand or support our fundamental human rights.

----------

"These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country;
but he that stands it Now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict the more glorius the triumph."

                                                                                  _*Thomas Paine*, The Crisis -- December 1776[/b]









_​


----------



## Roy Harding

Edward:  I had just read that piece and was preparing to post it here - but you beat me to it.

All:  Mr. Campbell (and Mr. Gunter) has stated my position on this issue beautifully.  As usual - he did it in a much more eloquent and logical manner than my own poor attempts.


----------



## Col.Steiner

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> You lost me here, why do you wonder that??
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



I think the man wouldn't last a second saying crap like that in the States! (excluding California maybe)


----------



## the 48th regulator

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> I think the man wouldn't last a second saying crap like that in the States! (excluding California maybe)



Why?

dileas

tess


----------



## Roy Harding

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> I think the man wouldn't last a second saying crap like that in the States! (excluding California maybe)



Actually - I think he'd have a better chance of being heard there.  The Americans I know take their individual rights (enshrined in their Constitution) EXTREMELY seriously.  He'd also be ATTACKED more vociferously - but I doubt there'd be an HRC star chamber waiting in the sidelines to silence him.


----------



## Blindspot

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=278535&p=2
> The keys points are:
> 
> •	“the instinct to arrest him [_Hossain_] for his views is as much a threat to free speech as the willingness of Canada's various human rights witch-hunters to bully Messrs. Levant and Steyn into silence”;
> 
> •	“We don't want state functionaries determining which political opinions are and are not legitimate to express;” amd
> 
> •	“governments would also be weakening the rights of all of us if they tried to shut up this hateful creature before he crossed the line into criminal conspiracy.”



Hold on... Levant and Steyn haven't advocated killing anyone. They haven't tied themselves to fundamental terrorist ideology. Why is the threat or incitement of violence against identifiable groups any less dangerous than the unlawful threat against an individual? While I am not in favour of vigilante justice or HR inquisitions, surely we as a society can't feel content to ignore him, sweep him under the rug for our self-gratifying, all holds-barred view of free speech. Who was he talking to when he made these coments? Under what context? Shouldn't some of these questions be examined before he is either condemned or ignored for what he is?


----------



## Roy Harding

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Hold on... Levant and Steyn haven't advocated killing anyone. They haven't tied themselves to fundamental terrorist ideology. Why is the threat or incitement of violence against identifiable groups any less dangerous than the unlawful threat against an individual? While I am not in favour of vigilante justice or HR inquisitions, surely we as a society can't feel content to ignore him, sweep him under the rug for our self-gratifying, all holds-barred view of free speech. Who was he talking to when he made these coments? Under what context? Shouldn't some of these questions be examined before he is either condemned or ignored for what he is?



No - we as a society SHOULDN'T ignore him, or sweep him under the rug.  NOR should we be so ready to remove his freedoms just because of what he MIGHT do.  By that standard, we'd ALL be in jail.

I don't condone what this guy is reported to have said - but as far as those concerned are aware, he has not (yet) broken any identifiable laws.

True freedom involves risks - and one of those risks is that someone advocating armed insurrection may well actually attempt it.  But the risk involved is generally considered acceptable - given the restraint on freedom inherent in condemning what people may think.

I think it is this acceptance of risk, and refusal to condemn people for what they think, that separates "us" from "them".

Is such tolerance dangerous?  Absolutely.  Is it necessary?  Only if one wants to continue to live in a liberal democracy.


----------



## GAP

Maybe someone should take this pimple to the Human Rights Commission....seems to be the flavor of the day....


----------



## 1feral1

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> I think the man wouldn't last a second saying crap like that in the States! (excluding California maybe)



Considering there is groups of WASP American citizens which go to funerals of KIAs from the GWOT, carrying signs "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" etc, I doubt if anything would happen to him, shy of vigilante action of course.

One thing we have in common with this TRAITOR is we are genuinely disgusted.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## Roy Harding

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Considering there is groups of WASP American citizens which go to funerals of KIAs from the GWOT, carrying signs "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" etc, I doubt if anything would happen to him, shy of vigilante action of course.
> 
> One thing we have in common with this TRAITOR is we are genuinely disgusted.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wes



Absolutely.


----------



## Donut

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Considering there is groups of WASP American citizens which go to funerals of KIAs from the GWOT, carrying signs "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" etc, I doubt if anything would happen to him, shy of vigilante action of course...
> Wes



Wes, many states have now passed legislation making it illegal to protest with 500 feet of funerals, and a court in Maryland recently awarded 11 million in damages to the family of one of the deceased.  A couple more judgements like that and they may shut down the b@stards.

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7310835 to media story on settlement

Although the wheels may grind slowly, this seems a reasonable limit on free speech.


----------



## 1feral1

ParaMedTech said:
			
		

> Wes, many states have now passed legislation making it illegal to protest with 500 feet of funerals, and a court in Maryland recently awarded 11 million in damages to the family of one of the deceased.  A couple more judgements like that and they may shut down the b@stards.
> 
> http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7310835 to media story on settlement
> 
> Although the wheels may grind slowly, this seems a reasonable limit on free speech.



Even so, for anyone or any group who supports such nonsense, there is some seriously mislead and phucked up people out there.

500ft  is what, 200 metres? Thats not much of a law to be passed. Oh, well, at least that gives the funeral procession some distance to get the speed up before running these phuckers over  ;D


----------



## Donut

Not argueing that!


----------



## Col.Steiner

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Why?
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Well, for one, I think that things are not tolerated as easily in the States,especially after 9/11. Canadians are much more passive than Americans when it comes to that sort of thing. Plus you might factor in the redneck, vigilantism aspect that is more prevalent in the States as well. I think the military is a stronger, more respected institution in the States as well (by the general population). Here we still get punks protesting and name calling at schools that allow CF recruiters on campus, I don't think that would fly too well in the States either. We as Canadains are just more tolerant to stuff like that in my opinion (which isn't necessarliy positive). We seem to put up with a lot of crap here without doing much about it, such as high taxes, corrupt politcs, seperatists, transfer payments to Quebec, shitty winters....


----------



## the 48th regulator

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> Well, for one, I think that things are not tolerated as easily in the States,especially after 9/11. Canadians are much more passive than Americans when it comes to that sort of thing. Plus you might factor in the redneck, vigilantism aspect that is more prevalent in the States as well. I think the military is a stronger, more respected institution in the States as well (by the general population). Here we still get punks protesting and name calling at schools that allow CF recruiters on campus, I don't think that would fly too well in the States either. We as Canadains are just more tolerant to stuff like that in my opinion (which isn't necessarliy positive). We seem to put up with a lot of crap here without doing much about it, such as high taxes, corrupt politcs, seperatists, transfer payments to Quebec, shitty winters....



Let me guess,

This is all "Your Opinion" based on absolutley no fact, correct?

dileas

tess


----------



## Col.Steiner

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Let me guess,
> 
> This is all "Your Opinion" based on absolutley no fact, correct?
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Just my opinion based on having lived in Canada??? Jesus Christ, I wasn't looking for a fight about it. My god man, I have been around some and I am not pulling ideas out of my  ass.


----------



## the 48th regulator

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> Just my opinion based on having lived in Canada??? Jesus Christ, I wasn't looking for a fight about it. A Can a person not say something here without attitude!



You are making far out statements, with regards to what American will do, as opposed to Canadians, all based on conjecture.

I suggest, that you hit the post button a little less.  And don't try to turn this into a "stop fighting and picking on me" situation, we have heard it before.

And although I have been called many things, thank you for the JC reference, it gives me a fine attitude.

Now, let's get back on track.

dileas

tess


----------



## Col.Steiner

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> You are making far out statements, with regards to what American will do, as opposed to Canadians, all based on conjecture.
> 
> I suggest, that you hit the post button a little less.  And don't try to turn this into a "stop fighting and picking on me" situation, we have heard it before.
> 
> And although I have been called many things, thank you for the JC reference, it gives me a fine attitude.
> 
> Now, let's get back on track.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



You certainly straightened me out! thanks!


----------



## the 48th regulator

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> You certainly straightened me out! thanks!



Sarcasm does not suit you.

dileas

tess


----------



## Roy Harding

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Sarcasm does not suit you.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



OberstSteiner:

Nor are you any good at sarcasm.

And while we're at it - you haven't answered my rebuttal to your supposition regarding Americans yet.

Roy


----------



## GK .Dundas

Opinions as some one once remarked are like err...... rectums everybody's got one . Granted this ones pretty vile and while I think that this guy is entitled to to his opinion I also think he's an idiot! My solution is that we have given this twerp far more attention then he deserves and we should ignore him .He appears to crave attention , why are we rewarding him with even more attention? 
  Perhaps it's just me but I also feel that the impersonal nature of the internet causes people to blurt out things they would never say in conversation even when inflamed with emotions.Instead of bringing us together in an community of communicators(as it were) the internet seems to "decivilizing" discourse. 
Just my .02 cents .


----------



## cameron

If he feels that way about Canadians then why the a$$ is he in Canada getting a Canadian education at a Canadian university.  Send his sorry a$$ back to Bangladesh.


----------



## tkp_mack

This is just my opinion, no facts.
I did check his facebook site out of curiosity but didn’t put him on my friend’s list for my own reasons so I have no idea what is exactly on his site. I was able to see though who his friends are. And the faces I saw did raise questions in me. Some of them:
- If he is such a hot headed jihadist who wants all Canadian soldiers pulled from muslim countries then how come he is still residing in Canada quite obviously enjoying the higher middle class life this wonderful country can provide to all who wish to live here. (Maybe he wouldn’t be able to play around with his friends with tricked out cars on nice suburb neighborhood streets.) 
- Same thought stretched a little further – I don’t even think he is really such a hard line muslim as he would like to be seen from his writing. (The photos speak for themself.)
- Interesting enough there is a uniformed male on his site with the same lastname he has. (Wonder what this person would say about S. Hossain.) 


Just a feeling but he seems like oh so many other young kids (riiight, he’s in his mid 20’s he is accountable for all his actions) who is bored out of his mind with doing no actual productive activity and living off mommy’s and daddy’s hard earned money. 
I might just be actually way off here. I apologize. 

I have a feeling he doesn’t even know what Canadian soldiers are doing in Afghanistan. This is possible because media brain washed Canadians only see and read what is put in front of them. 
Some though take the time to research. Kudos for these!

My thoughts: as now is the trend in Toronto - minority brings attention to themselves with stupid acts that in reality and in the past would have been punished. (I can only speak of Toronto because this is where I live right now.)  
Example: I only ask my neighbor to close her door so the fire department won’t come out yet again for a false alarm because of the spices she uses for cooking and I’m screeched at that I’m a racist. And I better shut my pie-hole or I will be in court in a blink for verbal assault.

I’m not saying they don’t have the right to free speech. All I’m saying is that the balance of living together in peace has been tipped over and is fast escalating to something that might be hard to stop in the future.


End of rant. I will step off my soap box now.


----------



## aesop081

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> transfer payments to Quebec,



Transfer payments to other provinces as well......dont forget those sunshine !!


----------



## Col.Steiner

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> OberstSteiner:
> 
> Nor are you any good at sarcasm.
> 
> And while we're at it - you haven't answered my rebuttal to your supposition regarding Americans yet.
> 
> Roy



As sarcasm was once said to be the lowest form of humour(Oscar Wilde), I don't think one could be good or bad at it. As for your rebuttal, all I said was I thought Americans are less likely to put up with that kind of crap. I meant the average citizen, not the government or any bills on human rights, just the individual. I said this from my experience and how I see things, unfortunately, 48th regular  requires facts, not theories based on conjecture, so forget I said anything, it really wasn't worth the big to-do.


----------



## Col.Steiner

I meant the adscam payments, not transfer payments, my mistake. As for the sunshine barb, you have shown your sarcasm is as bad as mine.


----------



## Flip

> I’m not saying they don’t have the right to free speech. All I’m saying is that the balance of living together in peace has been tipped over and is fast escalating to something that might be hard to stop in the future.



If we accept your premise, we might infer that immigration has occurred at a faster rate
than naturalization or the adjustment to Canadian values.  In Canada we have been fortunate, thus far with our particular version of multiculturalism. In Europe, however
there is an emergence of some difficulty.............
I REALLY hope I'm not going to far here.  ;D


----------



## scas

My thing is, If this guy is in universiry, how is he paying for it? Dose he take OSAP or any other goverment susidy program so he can rant all he wants? Thats something to look into..


----------



## brihard

There's a pretty loud furor starting up about this guy on Facebook, which is where these things are taken up amongst students. The student council and the school are looking into it, though I'm not sure what options they have.


----------



## 1feral1

Knowing how these councils usually are, they might even offer him a job or promote him somehow. Either way, I would not be suprised if he is going to be the victim, and all of us seen as Redneck baby killers.


----------



## Trinity

Wes

I sat on two of these councils..... at Seneca and Sheridan

It all depends on the council.  

In the very least, by reading the rules of the Muslim Student Union group that he belongs
to, he has violated the spirit and rules of the group and could be asked to leave. The only 
other thing the council(s) (UTM and UofT) could do is condemn his speech.

I'm more interested to see in what the university's opinion is on the issue.


----------



## coffee4ourtroops

Here is an official response from the student Union (Not sure how official it is) but its from the Vice President!

_*Walied Khogali (University of Toronto) wrote on Feb 1, 2008 at 8:07 PM.
As a student union, we will forever acknowledge and encourage free speech, but there is a difference between free speech demonstrating disapproval and free speech inciting the killing of others. As a union, we cannot support anyone suggesting the murder of others.*_


Here's the facebook group too if anyone is interested :
_*Expel or Suspend Salman Hossain*_
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21795853896


----------



## brihard

Dave Murphy said:
			
		

> Here is an official response from the student Union (Not sure how official it is) but its from the Vice President!
> 
> _*Walied Khogali (University of Toronto) wrote on Feb 1, 2008 at 8:07 PM.
> As a student union, we will forever acknowledge and encourage free speech, but there is a difference between free speech demonstrating disapproval and free speech inciting the killing of others. As a union, we cannot support anyone suggesting the murder of others.*_
> 
> 
> Here's the facebook group too if anyone is interested :
> _*Expel or Suspend Salman Hossain*_
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21795853896



Thanks. For some reason I couldn't seem to get a link to the group that worked.


----------



## Col.Steiner

Flip said:
			
		

> If we accept your premise, we might infer that immigration has occurred at a faster rate
> than naturalization or the adjustment to Canadian values.  In Canada we have been fortunate, thus far with our particular version of multiculturalism. In Europe, however
> there is an emergence of some difficulty.............
> I REALLY hope I'm not going to far here.  ;D


 You would be infering correctly and you summed it up eloquently.


----------



## Trinity

U of T Muslim Mississauga Association statement

http://time.yourpersonalhost.com/~utm1msa/Mambo/


> Written by Administrator
> Saturday, 02 February 2008
> 
> The UTM Muslim Students Association would like to correct recent misinformation in the media regarding Mr. Salman Hossain. The individual in question is not, and was not a member of the UTM Muslim Students Association and his views and remarks are in no way a reflection of the UTM Muslim Students Association, implicitly or explicitly.


----------



## George Wallace

I've heard of this before.  "Plausible Deniability".

Everyone is now starting to distance themselves from him.


----------



## Stupor

tkp_mack said:
			
		

> This is just my opinion, no facts.
> 
> My thoughts: as now is the trend in Toronto - minority brings attention to themselves with stupid acts that in reality and in the past would have been punished. (I can only speak of Toronto because this is where I live right now.)
> Example: I only ask my neighbor to close her door so the fire department won’t come out yet again for a false alarm because of the spices she uses for cooking and I’m screeched at that I’m a racist. And I better shut my pie-hole or I will be in court in a blink for verbal assault.
> 
> I’m not saying they don’t have the right to free speech. All I’m saying is that the balance of living together in peace has been tipped over and is fast escalating to something that might be hard to stop in the future.


Please do not generalize the behaviour of all minorities based on this bad apple and other anecdotal encounters that you have had. I am one of many minority members of the Canadian Forces Reserves, *in Toronto*, and speaking for myself at least, I do not appreciate your lumping us in with Salman Hossain and your oversensitive neighbour.

I am as disgusted as you are by Hossain. Probably more, in fact, because I attend the University of Toronto also. While I agree with others who have posted already that the RCMP should be allowed discretion in prosecuting Hossain, I do wish the University would expel him. Allowing Hossain to stay brings disrepute to the University and all those who attend it, something I would not want even if I did not have personal grievances against Hossain as a CF member.


----------



## Command-Sense-Act 105

And with that final post, I think we can sum this thread up.  9 pages so far, everyone has had the chance to voice an opinion.  Running it any further will just be circling this particular mulberry bush.  Locked 

If anyone has anything new, insightful or relevant to add, please ask a mod to unlock.

*The Army.ca staff*


----------



## George Wallace

Breaking News reported by milnewstbay.

From The Charlatan
Thu Feb 28
RCMP investigates student  

by Jessica Bruno    

A University of Toronto student is being investigated for incitement and facilitating terrorism after the RCMP decided his online posts went too far.

On an Internet comment board, political science student Salman Hossain said he supports militant jihad overseas, made anti-Semitic statements and called Canadian soldiers “legitimate targets to be killed.”

In one post, Hossain describes downloading videos of western soldiers being killed and showing it to other Muslims on the University of Toronto’s Mississauga (UTM) campus. Those students told him to stop, but he persisted, saying “Allahu Akhbar” or “God is great” every time a casualty was depicted.

“We do not support his repugnant world view,” said Walied Khogali, president of the campus student union. Khogali has also written to university officials, asking them to look into investigating Hossain if appropriate.

“The University of Toronto Mississauga takes matters of this nature very seriously and is co-operating fully with the appropriate police authorities,” said a spokesperson for the university.

When asked if Hossain would face disciplinary action, the university declined to comment, citing its privacy policy.

The Charlatan also attempted to contact Hossain for comment, but did not receive a response.

In a statement released on its website, the Muslim Students Association at UTM distanced itself from Hossain, stating he has never been a member, and that Hossain’s views in no way reflect its own.

After the situation was made public, there was a “Unity through Diversity” week, which Khogali said has hopefully served to reassure students.

Khogali said his first experience with Hossain was two years ago at a university student’s committee meeting. He said Hossain was ejected because of his anti-Semitic, anti-feminist and homophobic views.

Freedom of expression is protected under Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but it is subject to reasonable limits prescribed by law.

Statements made to incite hatred against an identifiable group are an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada. 

If a court determines Hossain’s remarks fall under that category, he could face time in prison.

Attention drawn to Hossain’s opinions has provoked a passionate response. On the original comment board where he posted, members of the public have written him scathing messages.

There is also a Facebook group, “Expel or Suspend Salman Hossain,” which has more than 700 members.

One member, Cpl. Brian Harding, is a Carleton student and Canadian Forces reservist who has volunteered to serve in Afghanistan this August.

Currently in New Mexico for training, he said he first heard of Hossain through word of mouth, as the story spread quickly throughout the military.  Views like those of Hossain, Harding said, make it easier for Canadians to “differentiate the dangerous few” from the majority of Muslims.

“All Mr. Hossain has accomplished is to remind us that we need to be vigilant, not just overseas but at home,” said Harding. “He is merely a reminder that that sentiment is out there, sometimes dormant, sometimes not.”


----------



## George Wallace

Breaking News reported by milnews.ca.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.   


No charges for man's call to kill soldiers

(Link in Title)

*Hate Speech Case; Internet postings attacked Jews, denied Holocaust*

Stewart Bell, National Post  
Published: Tuesday, June 30, 2009

A Toronto man who had posted messages on the Internet supporting terrorist attacks in Canada and the deportation of Jews will not face criminal charges, police said yesterday.

The Ontario Provincial Police hate crimes and extremism unit had been investigating Salman Hossain -- whose writings included a call to kill Western soldiers "so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters" -- for willfully promoting hatred toward the Jewish community, but the case was recently closed.

"The OPP reviewed the case with Crown counsel. As a result of that review, it was determined that insufficient grounds existed to support willful promotion of hatred charges," said Detective-Sergeant Brent Young.

Police would provide no further explanation. In Ontario, hate-crimes charges must be approved by the Attorney-General. The spokesman for the Ministry said the Attorney-General had not been asked to approve charges in this case.

"The Attorney-General did not reverse any decision. In fact, no direct request was made of the Attorney-General. In accordance with the long-standing procedure for such cases, the matter was carefully reviewed by counsel who determined a request to the Attorney-General was not appropriate in this case," Brendan Crawley said.

The Canadian Jewish Congress said it was "perplexed" by the decision. "We recognize that the bar is set high in terms of not only laying charges, but in terms of gaining a conviction," said Len Rudner, the CJC's Ontario regional director. "But I'm not a lawyer, so when I look at somebody talking about the charge that Western nations invade countries under the control of 'Jew masters,' that concerns me."

Writing in online Internet forums, Mr. Hossain frequently singled out Jews, calling them derogatory names, claiming the Holocaust was "fictional" and once asking, "When do I get to shoot a few Jews down..."

In one posting, Mr. Hossain wrote, "Here's what I suggest we do ... just throw out the Jews (by religion or blood) out of the instruments of mainstream media, finance/banking, government/ politics, and the intelligence/ secret services."

"That's how the Muslims have done it in the past, especially when they were in power and glorious. Leave behind the token Jew here and there just to appear non-discriminatory.

"Then send the Jews packing on a different ship to their own territory or maybe the South Pole to live with the penguins. Do this before they claim we gonna do another 'holocaust.' There's no Jew better than an exile Jew."

Mr. Hossain could not be reached for comment. He said last year that he had only made his comments in private online chat rooms, but the messages can be viewed by anyone using a simple Google search.

The National Post reported in January that the Bangladeshi-Canadian, then a student at the University of Toronto's Mississauga campus, had been approached by the RCMP due to his online activities.

Police apparently took an interest in Mr. Hossain after he posted messages on the Internet about the arrests of several suspects accused of plotting terrorist attacks at a German military base.

"We should do that here in Canada as well," he wrote. "Kill as many Western soldiers as well so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters ... if there were any planned attacks against Canadian/American soldiers by 'Muslim militants' in Canadian soil, I'd support it."

He continued that Western countries deserved terrorist attacks such as 9/11 and the 2005 transit bombings in London, "cause then they have fear and respect of Muslims."

Mr. Hossain had also chronicled his dealings with police in his online writings. "You can't charge me for possessing a thought," he wrote, adding that he "honestly got a kick out of pissing off the RCMP ... HAHAHA."

In response, Liberal Senator Colin Kenny said Mr. Hossain should be prosecuted to send a message "that talking like that isn't very smart." Mr. Hossain's mother told The Associated Press her son was an "idiot."

University of Toronto students responded with a campaign to have him expelled, but he defended himself, writing that he did not condone violence and that, "I'm tryna wake people up."

Canada's hate crimes laws are rarely used but there have been several recent cases across the country. Last February, Keith Francis William Noble of Prince George, B. C., was convicted over a website that targeted minorities.

In 2006, Reinhard Gustav Mueller of Edmonton, who claimed he received radio signals from space, was sentenced to 16 months for his depictions of Jews on his Internet site.

A fringe political candidate in Ontario was recently charged over anti-gay comments. Last January, former University of Saskatchewan math lecturer Terence Tremaine was charged with promoting hatred over anti-Jewish comments on the Internet. He has pleaded not guilty.

Mr. Rudner said he did not know why the Crown felt the comments of Mr. Hossain did not meet the threshold for criminal prosecution.


----------



## Kat Stevens

HRC, anyone?


----------



## OldSolduer

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> HRC, anyone?


There's a better way to take care of this person.


----------



## jmbest

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> There's a better way to take care of this person.



Dangling him over a pool of blood thirsty sharks, perhaps?


----------



## Michael OLeary

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> There's a better way to take care of this person.



A couple of years ago we went through a phase on Milnet.ca where certain posters' solution to everything was encapsulated in the phrase "kneel down and face the ditch".  It took a lot of effort on the part of the staff, backed by the rational group that collectively understood what Canadian soldiers represent, and who acknowledged that such knee-jerk posting responses did not promote the membership as a group looking to find solutions, to diminish the frequency of those posts.  Now is not the time to return to that posting style or mood.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## OldSolduer

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> A couple of years ago we went through a phase on Milnet.ca where certain posters' solution to everything was encapsulated in the phrase "kneel down and face the ditch".  It took a lot of effort on the part of the staff, backed by the rational group that collectively understood what Canadian soldiers represent, and who acknowledged that such knee-jerk posting responses did not promote the membership as a group looking to find solutions, to diminish the frequency of those posts.  Now is not the time to return to that posting style or mood.
> 
> Milnet.ca Staff



That isn't what I meant. Perhaps he should face an HRC? Or maybe the Jewish Congress could take civil action?


----------



## Michael OLeary

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> That isn't what I meant. Perhaps he should face an HRC? Or maybe the Jewish Congress could take civil action?



It may not be what you intended, but it remained wide open to interpretation by the reader, as shown by the post that followed it.


----------



## RHFC_piper

> "The OPP reviewed the case with Crown counsel. As a result of that review, it was determined that *insufficient grounds existed to support willful promotion of hatred charges*," said Detective-Sergeant Brent Young.



What??  Really??

 ???


What about this?



> Salman Hossain -- whose *writings* included a call to kill Western soldiers "so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters"
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> Writing in online Internet forums, Mr. Hossain frequently singled out Jews, calling them derogatory names, claiming the Holocaust was "fictional" and once asking, "*When do I get to shoot a few Jews down...*"
> 
> In one posting, Mr. Hossain wrote, "Here's what I suggest we do ... *just throw out the Jews * (by religion or blood) out of the instruments of mainstream media, finance/banking, government/ politics, and the intelligence/ secret services."
> 
> "That's how the Muslims have done it in the past, especially when they were in power and glorious. Leave behind the token Jew here and there just to appear non-discriminatory.
> 
> "Then send the Jews packing on a different ship to their own territory or maybe the South Pole to live with the penguins. Do this before they claim we gonna do another 'holocaust.' *There's no Jew better than an exile Jew.*"
> 
> "We should do that here in Canada as well," he wrote. "*Kill as many Western soldiers as well * so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters ... if there were any planned attacks against Canadian/American soldiers by 'Muslim militants' in Canadian soil, I'd support it."
> 
> He continued that *Western countries deserved terrorist attacks* such as 9/11 and the 2005 transit bombings in London, "cause then they have fear and respect of Muslims."
> 
> Mr. Hossain had also chronicled his dealings with police in his online writings. "You can't charge me for possessing a thought," he wrote, adding that he "honestly got a kick out of pissing off the RCMP ... HAHAHA."



Hmmm... sound pretty hatefull to me... and all in writing.
Seems odd when the media sites this as well;


> In 2006, Reinhard Gustav Mueller of Edmonton, who claimed he received radio signals from space, was sentenced to 16 months for his depictions of Jews on his Internet site.
> 
> A fringe political candidate in Ontario was recently charged over anti-gay comments. Last January, former University of Saskatchewan math lecturer Terence Tremaine was charged with promoting hatred over anti-Jewish comments on the Internet. He has pleaded not guilty.
> 
> Mr. Rudner said he did not know why the Crown felt the comments of Mr. Hossain did not meet the threshold for criminal prosecution.



And, yet, what Mr. Hossain said and wrote was not criminal? interesting.


Gotta love this, though;


> Mr. Hossain's mother told The Associated Press her son was an "idiot."



I guess it's not illegal to be an idiot.


----------



## George Wallace

This may explain the problems we are facing:


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.   


The threshold of hate

(Link in Title)

Joseph Brean,  National Post  

The decision not to prosecute Salman Hossain for the wilful promotion of hatred against an identifiable group illustrates some of the pitfalls of a controversial anti-hate law that has often put legal opinion in conflict with political judgment, and has become doubly awkward in the age of the Internet.

Section 319(2) of the Criminal Code is one of the few ways a Canadian can be sentenced to jail, up to two years, directly over the spoken or written word.

It is among the few criminal laws that require direct ministerial approval for prosecutions, along with others such as abuse of public office, assisting a military deserter and any alleged crime on the Space Station.

To date, Ontario has not yet pursued an Internetbased case. Convictions have been won against website operators in other provinces, though, despite unique problems that arise on the Internet, where anonymity is the norm, audiences are unclear, websites can be hacked, passwords can be shared and many messages appear for only a moment before vanishing forever down a rabbit hole.

"It's normally discussed in legal circles as an enforcement challenge," said Bruce Ryder, Assistant Dean First Year at Osgoode Hall law school.

Drafted in the 1960s at the height of the post-war human rights movement, Prof. Ryder said Section 319(2) has generally fared well since hate propaganda moved from printed flyers and telephone hotlines to Internet chat rooms.

The main current problem is not the law's constitutionality, he said, nor a shortage of cases that deserve it, but whether it can actually be effective against the proliferation of online hate propaganda, much of it anonymous or international.

The 319(2) conviction rate remains low, at 11 convictions out of 44 prosecutions since 1994, despite a reluctance by attorneys-general to approve anything but the most extreme cases.

The recent failed retrial of native leader David Ahenakew, for example, was an acute embarrassment for the Saskatchewan Crown, but like past failures, it helped clarify the law's boundaries.

Mr. Ahenakew's first trial turned on the "private conversation" exemption, which was judged not to apply to the statements he made to a reporter.

The retrial turned on the concept of "wilful," which has always been an unusual requirement, given that all crimes must involve some kind of "guilty mind."

This notion was first wrangled over in the first 319(2) case in 1979, the failed prosecution of Robert Buzzanga and Jean Wilfred Durocher, two French Canadians who distributed anti-French flyers in an effort to rouse anti-English sentiment in Ontario. They were acquitted on appeal in a ruling that held "wilful" to mean something close to "intentional," in contrast to other forms of guilty knowledge such as negligence or recklessness.

Mr. Ahenakew was ultimately judged to have fallen below this high standard.

"There's no doubt that mistakes have been made [in 319(2) cases]," Prof. Ryder said.

The result is a law that is used sparingly and cautiously, and generally against only determined purveyors of the most extreme forms of hatred.

"The Criminal Code isn't supposed to prohibit racism. It's supposed to prohibit extreme forms of hate propaganda that raise a serious threat of harm," Prof. Ryder said.

Along with "private conversation," the law also provides defenses of truth, public interest, identifying hatred for the purpose of eradication and religious arguments made in good faith.

Trying to identify worthy cases amid the unedited global chatter of the Internet, while respecting private communications and free expression, has become a central conundrum of 319(2).

And it is often easier for a police officer or Crown prosecutor than for an attorney-general, who must put his or her elected neck on the line.

Set the bar too high, and the law is toothless against the very people it was written to target.

Set it too low, and you catch a thousand loudmouths who may be racists, but are not criminals.

A source with first-hand knowledge of how provincial attorneys-general make this decision said the threshold changes with the political climate, and that there are "many more questions put to the AG than there are positive answers."

It is not a scientific process, he said, but rather a subjective decision about whether each individual case is worth pursuing.

While a prosecutor will simply look for a reasonable prospect of conviction based on available evidence (they also seem to be reluctant; one police hate crime specialist reports forwarding six potential cases to the Crown over two years, and having all rejected), an elected attorney-general must take a wider view.

Approved cases must "go beyond simply some foolish hothead spouting off," the source said, or else the law can be overused and cheapened. A good indicator of a solid case, for example, would be an imbalance of power between speaker and audience, or a context in which people were likely to be strongly influenced, which is why the successful prosecution of the anti-Semitic Alberta teacher James Keegstra is such an iconic precedent.

"The full answer is not in the words of the statute," the source said, and "everything becomes a little harder" on the Internet.

An added complication is that the Youth Criminal Justice Act has no hate speech provision, so it is unclear how an accused youth would be

The Criminal Code isn't supposed to prohibit racism treated under this law.

At the moment, the political climate is awkward for hate speech prosecutions.

A prolonged and acrimonious debate over the role of human rights commissions in these matters has led to high-profile demands for legislative change, and hate speech reviews at various agencies, including the Canadian Human Rights Commission, the Justice Department and parliamentary committees.

The Justice Department is also evaluating a controversial proposal to explicitly write hate motivation into the Criminal Code as an aggravating factor in any crime, from common mischief to murder.

In such a divisive climate, the criminal prosecution of a young blogger would have drawn awkward attention, and as much criticism as praise.

In the past, this has often worked to the advantage of the accused, notably the Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel, who was investigated under 319(2), but prosecuted under the law against reporting "false news," which was ruled unconstitutional.

"There's no doubt that a downside of criminal prosecution is it gives all kinds of free publicity to the views of the person accused of hatemongering," Prof. Ryder said.

"Perhaps its most important roles are symbolic and preventative, to express our condemnation of hate propaganda against the groups that have most frequently been the targets of hateful speech," he said.

jbrean@nationalpost.com---------

HIGH-PROFILE CASES

Cases alleging hate promotion in Canada have taken a sharp turn away from racist hotlines and photocopied flyers toward the unbounded reach of the Internet. The following are some of the most prominent cases involving the anti-hate law since the Supreme Court of Canada upheld its constitutionality in 1990.

JAMES KEEGSTRA

A high school teacher and mayor from Eckville, Alta., he was driven from office before his conviction for promoting Holocaust denial and Jewish conspiracy theories to his students. The Alberta Court of Appeal overturned his conviction because the defence of truth placed too high a burden on the accused, but it was upheld by the Supreme Court, in a 1990 analysis that remains the legal benchmark.

GLENN BAHR

A founder of the Western Canada For Us website, he was committed for trial in 2006 over alleged white supremacist material. He has pleaded not guilty.

DON ANDREWS

The leader of the defunct Nationalist Party of Canada and a long-time racist rabble rouser in Toronto, he was found guilty of hate promotion and sentenced to one year in jail, a sentence that the Supreme Court of Canada upheld in 1990, in a companion appeal with Keegstra.

TERRY TREMAINE

A former University of Saskatchewan lecturer who went by the online nickname mathdoktor99, he once claimed his alleged hate promotion was due to mental illness, but instead briefly tried to defend himself. He has pleaded not guilty and is now represented by Doug Christie, a lawyer who has argued for many 319(2) accused, including Keegstra.

REINHARD GUSTAV MUELLER

Also known as Reni Sentana-Ries, he was sentenced in 2006 in Alberta to 16 months in jail for his anti-Semitic website Federation of Free Planets. At sentencing he made what a reporter described as "a long statement detailing the radio messages his wife receives from extraterrestrials and the government conspiracies to silence him and his wife that even reached the Crown's office."

KEITH FRANCIS WILLIAM NOBLE

A prominent neo-Nazi agitator, he was sentenced in February 2008 in Prince George, B. C., to four months in jail and three years' probation, and had all his computer equipment forfeited to the Crown for destruction.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Just another spineless dodge by the McGuinty government. Won't deal with the aboriginal problem, or the tamils or this guy. Bet if a white guy said something like this, the Ontario AG would be parading him through the streets of Moronto in an ox cart. Getting as bad as Britian here.


----------



## OldSolduer

recceguy said:
			
		

> Just another spineless dodge by the McGuinty government. Won't deal with the aboriginal problem, or the tamils or this guy. Bet if a white guy said something like this, the Ontario AG would be parading him through the streets of Moronto in an ox cart. Getting as bad as Britian here.



Oh come on now!! You know only white folk can be racist!! ;D


----------



## George Wallace

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> Oh come on now!! You know only white folk can be racist!! ;D



Not even after they are recognized as a "visible minority".    >


----------



## mariomike

Times have changed. In 1981 Metro Police made the largest mass arrest in Canada since the 1970 October crisis. Now we host one of the world's largest gay parades.  Strike or no strike. However, Canada Day is a no go in Canada's largest city this year.


----------



## TCBF

mariomike said:
			
		

> Times have changed. In 1981 Metro Police made the largest mass arrest in Canada since the 1970 October crisis. Now we host one of the world's largest gay parades.  Strike or no strike. However, Canada Day is a no go in Canada's largest city this year.



- What do you mean "Canada Day is a No-Go"?


----------



## Loachman

A good chance to bring back Dominion Day.


----------



## dapaterson

TCBF said:
			
		

> - What do you mean "Canada Day is a No-Go"?



City workers are on strike - so no one to set up, work at, or tear down city-run events.  Lots of lost overtime there...


----------



## mariomike

TCBF said:
			
		

> - What do you mean "Canada Day is a No-Go"?



According to the Toronto Sun:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2009/06/30/9977951-sun.html


----------



## 1feral1

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> There's a better way to take care of this person.



Yes, you know it and so do I  ;D Through peace, love and harmony and all things PC.

Cheers,

Wes

EDIT again...

CLARIFICATION


Please note that the above remark was intended to go out to our ever silly 'PC world' at large (al la UN, global warming, etc) world, meant in a humourous 'tounge in cheek'  (please note the smiley face) sense, and was not directed in a manner to humiliate, insult, degrade or attack anyone poster personally or otherwise who are members, guests or moderators on this fine site.

For those that saw it in another way, I am sorry.


----------



## armyvern

_Sigh_  :


----------



## brihard

I know it's a necrothread, but there's actually some new follow up on this asshat.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2654831
York University suspends student running anti-Semitic website



TORONTO -- A Toronto man has been suspended from York University after the National Post reported he was under police investigation over his controversial Internet postings.

Salman Hossain has been ordered to appear before a disciplinary panel and, in the meantime, he is not permitted to attend classes at the north Toronto university campus.

The Ontario Provincial Police said last week its hate crimes and extremism unit was investigating online writings by Mr. Hossain that make derogatory comments about Jews and call for a genocide against them.

"The university is moving on this issue in a serious fashion and we're going to let our due process work through and see what happens beyond that," university spokesman Keith Marnoch said on Monday.

Canadian Jewish Congress CEO Bernie Farber said the Jewish community was "now breathing a sigh of relief" knowing that Mr. Hossain was suspended. "York has done the right thing."

The Bangladeshi-Canadian, who claims to know the ringleader of the Toronto 18 bomb plot, has been familiar to police since he posted messages online three years ago supporting terrorist attacks in Canada.

At the time, the OPP brought a hate crimes case against him over his comments about Jews but Attorney-General Chris Bentley decided not to press charges because he said Mr. Hossain was undergoing rehabilitation to correct his offensive behavior.

But Mr. Hossain has recently resumed his online campaign on a conspiracy-theory website called Filthy Jewish Terrorists. On it, he blames Jews for terrorist attacks that were actually carried out by Islamist extremists, refers to Jews, Christians and non-extremist Muslims using offensive terms and says that "a genocide should be perpetrated against the Jewish populations of North America and Europe."

After the Post reported on the police investigation, Mr. Hossain was unapologetic and defended his support for a genocide against Jews, writing, "Yes, I can call for the slaughter of an entire people."

Canada's hate crimes law prohibits supporting or promoting genocide, as well as the communication of statements (other than in private conversation) that willfully promote hatred against an identifiable group.

"We are going to move forward with a tribunal on this," Mr. Marnoch said, adding that while such a hearing must take place within 60 days, it would not take that long in this case.

"It'll be done well within that time frame," he said. "We want all of our students, all of our community members, to be safe and knowing that they can be."

National Post



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2654831#ixzz0iFtZZPDx 
The National Post is now on Facebook. Join our fan community today.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Have to agree with Vern...


			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> _Sigh_  :



When will someone clamp down on such folks?

_- edited to clarify -_


----------



## HavocSteve

It's people like this that make me sick. I have friends who are of different color then myself that go to York U, and they would never support such things even though they might not agree with the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't get why nothing is done yet.. York U is doing the right thing.. when will Canada? I could guarantee if he wrote this in the States.. he would already be locked up for a long time.


----------



## OldSolduer

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> It's people like this that make me sick. I have friends who are of different color then myself that go to York U, and they would never support such things even though they might not agree with the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't get why nothing is done yet.. York U is doing the right thing.. when will Canada? I could guarantee if he wrote this in the States.. he would already be locked up for a long time.



We are still suffering the hangover of "political correctness". Give the pendelum a few years.


----------



## mariomike

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> We are still suffering the hangover of "political correctness". Give the pendelum a few years.



Just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
But, I think it's more like the D.T.'s. than a hangover.


----------



## UoTJustin

I think Canada needs to re-think the whole multi-cultural rainbow theory. People need to be integrated into society in a meaningful way as soon as they become citizens so this kind of BS doesn't happen. If this means that immigrants have to give up some of their native culture and heritage to share in a common Canadian one, that's just what's going to have to happen. 

Or else Canada is going to face the kind of social unrest and increasing xenophobia that is facing Europe.


----------



## Edward Campbell

UoTJustin said:
			
		

> I think Canada needs to re-think the whole multi-cultural rainbow theory. People need to be integrated into society in a meaningful way as soon as they become citizens so this kind of BS doesn't happen. If this means that immigrants have to give up some of their native culture and heritage to share in a common Canadian one, that's just what's going to have to happen.
> 
> Or else Canada is going to face the kind of social unrest and increasing xenophobia that is facing Europe.




I think your point is valid but, it seems to me, the _cure_ is not so much in forcing immigrants to surrender entrenched cultural values as it is in offering them applicable, attractive _common Canadian_ values.

There will, inevitably, be a few conflicts between the old and new values and we are seeing that right now in full face covering for Muslims. It (face covering, burkas, etc) is NOT a Muslim requirement; it is part of the old, old Arab/Persian *cultural* baggage that makes women into _property_ and conflicts, harshly, with our cultural value of equality.

We, the _established_ Canadians, of whatever skin tone or religion, need to 'win' the small _clashes of civilizations_ when they occur in order to guarantee a secular, tolerant, democratic society in which _fundamental_ rights (life, liberty, property, equality) are guaranteed for all.


----------



## Greymatters

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> offering them applicable, attractive _common Canadian_ values.



Has anyone figured out what these would be? i.e. "top ten things all Canadians should value" type of thing?


----------



## Rahul

It is s**** like this that give immigrants a bad name   Seriously, for a country that has given you so much why the hell can't you show some respect? 
The Wahhabis and mullahs he supports would consider this idiot cannon fodder at best.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Has anyone figured out what these would be? i.e. "top ten things all Canadians should value" type of thing?




The government made a step in the right direction with the new citizenship book - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/discover/index.asp

It says:



> In Canada, rights come with responsibilities. These include:
> 
> *Obeying the law* — One of Canada’s founding principles is the rule of law. Individuals and governments are regulated by laws and not by arbitrary actions. No person or group is above the law.
> 
> *Taking responsibility for oneself and one’s family* — Getting a job, taking care of one’s family, and working hard in keeping with one’s abilities, are important Canadian values. Work contributes to personal dignity and self-respect, and to Canada’s prosperity.
> 
> *Serving on a jury* — When called to do so, you are legally required to serve. Serving on a jury is a privilege that makes the justice system work, as it depends on impartial juries made up of citizens.
> 
> *Voting in elections* — The right to vote comes with a responsibility to vote in federal, provincial or territorial and local elections.
> 
> *Helping others in the community* — Millions of volunteers freely donate their time to help others without pay—helping people in need, assisting at your child’s school, volunteering at a food bank or other charity, or encouraging newcomers to integrate. Volunteering is an excellent way to gain useful skills and develop friends and contacts.
> 
> *Protecting and enjoying our heritage and environment* — Every citizen has a role to play in avoiding waste and pollution while protecting Canada’s natural, cultural, and architectural heritage for future generations.




I would add a few and might delete one or two of those, but, it's a step in the right direction.


----------



## Greymatters

Hmmm, some of these things I have trouble getting my own kid to do never mind enforcing it on new immigrants (or old self-righteous immigrants)


----------



## SeanNewman

Some of the guys early on were perhaps a bit too eager to discount this guy as a loon and discount what he says.

I often thought during several *large* gatherings in the 2006-2008 timeframe "Why in the hell are so many soldiers gathered in one place right now while we are such a large target?  What would happen if..."

To beat your enemy you need to understand them, and when they tell you good ways they want to hit you, perhaps we should listen.


----------



## UoTJustin

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The government made a step in the right direction with the new citizenship book - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/discover/index.asp
> 
> It says:
> 
> 
> In Canada, rights come with responsibilities. These include:
> 
> Obeying the law — One of Canada’s founding principles is the rule of law. Individuals and governments are regulated by laws and not by arbitrary actions. No person or group is above the law.
> 
> Taking responsibility for oneself and one’s family — Getting a job, taking care of one’s family, and working hard in keeping with one’s abilities, are important Canadian values. Work contributes to personal dignity and self-respect, and to Canada’s prosperity.
> 
> Serving on a jury — When called to do so, you are legally required to serve. Serving on a jury is a privilege that makes the justice system work, as it depends on impartial juries made up of citizens.
> 
> Voting in elections — The right to vote comes with a responsibility to vote in federal, provincial or territorial and local elections.
> 
> Helping others in the community — Millions of volunteers freely donate their time to help others without pay—helping people in need, assisting at your child’s school, volunteering at a food bank or other charity, or encouraging newcomers to integrate. Volunteering is an excellent way to gain useful skills and develop friends and contacts.
> 
> Protecting and enjoying our heritage and environment — Every citizen has a role to play in avoiding waste and pollution while protecting Canada’s natural, cultural, and architectural heritage for future generations.
> 
> 
> I would add a few and might delete one or two of those, but, it's a step in the right direction.



      It's nice that the government is giving this a shot, but I don't think this list does it. It is generically applicable to any liberal democracy in the world. If we subbed Sweden in for Canada, no one would be the wiser. 

      One problem defining a Canadian value is that we are understated and less prone to Nationalism. We are reluctant to define ourself in a way that exclude any members of our society. We also don't have an anti-hero to our hero. For example, if you ask a Spartan who he is, he'd say he isn't an Athenian, or if you ask a Englishmen who who he is, he'd say he say he's not Frenchman etc. These are some of the reasons why I am proud to be Canadian but it also make the job of explaining our identity to new Canadians difficult. 

     I think it is less valuable to rack our brains trying to teach in theory what Canadian values are, than to spend money and effort on integrating new Canadians. When you have situations were children born in Canada not being able to speak English properly, that's where we have a problem. It indicates insular societies that don't interactive with the greater Canadian society and where an alien set of values and loyalties can exist (like the case of our internet toughguy here).


----------



## bdave

Are you sure?
Most people would say Canadians are the opposite of Americans. I would disagree with that but the fact that we compare ourselves and are compared, frequently, with Americans would make them the anti hero to our hero.


----------



## SeanNewman

I 100% agree with BDave.

I think Canadians more than any other define ourselves as _not_ someone else, which is very sad because we are more alike the US than any other two countries, but too many people focus on nothing but our 2% difference.

In fact it's so popular that if PM ever says "The US and Canada are extremely close" he would lose percentage points, meanwhile JC did everything he can to not do what the US did and it made him wildly popular.


----------



## The Bread Guy

UoTJustin said:
			
		

> One problem defining a Canadian value is that we are understated and less prone to Nationalism. We are reluctant to define ourself in a way that exclude any members of our society. We also don't have an anti-hero to our hero. For example, if you ask a Spartan who he is, he'd say he isn't an Athenian, or if you ask a Englishmen who who he is, he'd say he say he's not Frenchman etc. These are some of the reasons why I am proud to be Canadian but it also make the job of explaining our identity to new Canadians difficult.


If it's any comfort, I self-identify by saying I'm not a Torontonian  



			
				bdave said:
			
		

> Most people would say Canadians are the opposite of Americans.


I don't know if it's as much that we're the matter to the US's anti-matter as much as we're different than Americans, which ties in with this:


			
				Petamocto said:
			
		

> I think Canadians more than any other define ourselves as _not_ someone else, which is very sad because we are more alike the US than any other two countries, but too many people focus on nothing but our 2% difference.



- edited to add second bit -


----------



## Edward Campbell

Petamocto said:
			
		

> I 100% agree with BDave.
> 
> I think Canadians more than any other define ourselves as _not_ someone else, which is very sad because we are more alike the US than any other two countries, but too many people focus on nothing but our 2% difference.
> 
> In fact it's so popular that if PM ever says "The US and Canada are extremely close" he would lose percentage points, meanwhile JC did everything he can to not do what the US did and it made him wildly popular.




You know, the DNA of chimps and humans are even less than about 2% different but we are anything but the same.

I agree that too many Canadians identify themselves as being "not American" but that does not mean that we should reverse that and say that we are, pretty much, just chilly Americans with rude shop-girls.

There are plenty of _things_ that make us Canadian and being Canadian builds upon a whole host of cultural values and influences, only one of which is American - but it is a big one.


----------



## SeanNewman

Your chimps and humans example doesn't change the fact that we are more like chimps than sharks or crickets.

We originated the same way, we share similar geography, we are both democracies, and most importantly our lifestyles in general are 98% the same.

In the big picture, we are insanely fortunate to be so alike with our neighbours, as for centuries we have gotten along splendidly.

What are your stereotypical differences that you can think of?  Crime?  Guns?  Health care?  I think someone living in suburban Connecticut would look at someone in the slums of Markham and disagree with you.  Not everywhere in the US is Compton, you know.

How would you like to be Israel and live in constant fear of being overran from all sides?  How would you like to be France and having a different enemy every century?  Would you rather be India sandwiched between China and Pakistan?

Don't get me wrong, when I was a teenager I was the first in line to bash America every chance I got, but then I grew up and realized the difference between irrational hormones and what is in our national interest.  Plus, when you're an air sentry driving down Route Foster and look up to see an American-made Apache providing top cover for you, a bit of a soft spot forms in your heart.

[/thread jack]

Back to talking about the bad guys not the good guys!


----------



## 1feral1

My take on Americans is simple.

This POV is from both a Canadian and Australian take.

Not long ago, we were all Collonies of the Mother Country, England.

We all come from a majority of NW European background, with a post war immigrant intake from similar places also.

In reality, shy perhaps of certain politcal views, we are not much different at all. We like the same food, sports, music, hobbies, and even share churches and other organisations, and we are allied in many causes/wars for a very long time.

Perhaps we are seeing a side of ourselves when we see them. I can't fault an American no more than I can fault myself. Compared to the 30 some million of Canadians and 20 million Australians, there is about 300 millions Americans, all roughly in a country a bit bigger than Australia and a bit smaller than Canada. Each of our nations has their issues, but I view American issues roughly about 100 times as intense as our own.


OWDU


----------



## Greymatters

Petamocto said:
			
		

> In the big picture, we are insanely fortunate to be so alike with our neighbours, as for centuries we have gotten along splendidly.



Its actually 'decades' - we werent really BFF until about WW2...


----------



## LineJumper

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> We all come from a majority of NW European background, with a post war immigrant intake from similar places also.



Not _all_ of us.


----------



## SeanNewman

I heard an awesome analogy once.

England is Dad, and for a long time Dad was a pretty powerful guy, going around the world kicking @$$ at his prime.  Then he had some kids, consisting of America, Canada, Australia, etc (arguably India and others but not really), and he continued to kick @$$ even more when those kids could help him work on the farm.

Then one day America turned 18 and started not agreeing with his aging Dad about everything, and finally one day they had a fight and America knocked Dad out cold, and they were on the outs for a few years.

However, once they had lived apart for a while they realized that they were still family and realized it would be stupid to stay apart.  From that point on, the bond was incredibly strong and whenever someone messed with one it meant they were messing with both.

Where do Canada and Australia come into play?  Well, Australia is the youngest son who loves to fight but he'll never really be as strong as his older brother, and Canada is the middle child who happens to be a hippie left-wing daughter.  That's not to say that she can't lay down one hell of a b!tch slap on someone when required, just that she has different thought processes and priorities than her brothers and Dad.

And at the end of the day, we're all still family.


----------



## 1feral1

The above post says it all.

Welldone.

OWDU


----------



## Rifleman62

Great post Petamocto 

I have copied it down to use:  





> I heard an awesome analogy once


 as appropriate.

Love: 





> Canada is the middle child who happens to be a hippie left-wing daughter.



Canada was strong, for example the fourth largest Navy in WWII. Post war, this country lost it's way because of the Liberals and the eastern Canada Progressive Conservative back stabbers. 

ERC will put me right if spoke out of turn here.


----------



## SeanNewman

My friend, you don't have to convince me about Canada's *real* military past (re: not peacekeeping).

I wouldn't have decided to make the Infantry my career and life's passion if I thought otherwise.  

Being female does not automatically mean weak, just that one has different priorities.

That being said, we are slaves to our civilian masters who must be voted into power and if (hypothetically) 80% of Canadians decide to vote NDP, then as much as we may feel differently about what the military should be capable of it won't matter because we don't get to steer our own path.

Should that ever happen it will be interesting times.  To be a professional soldier for your country means you do what you're told, and I am curious to know if there would be a mass exodus of people getting out.


----------



## bdave

Petamocto said:
			
		

> I 100% agree with BDave.
> 
> I think Canadians more than any other define ourselves as _not_ someone else, which is very sad because we are more alike the US than any other two countries, but too many people focus on nothing but our 2% difference.
> 
> In fact it's so popular that if PM ever says "The US and Canada are extremely close" he would lose percentage points, meanwhile JC did everything he can to not do what the US did and it made him wildly popular.



When did this happen? It's obviously the french separatists who strengthened this perception.
Could it be with the world's anti-american point of view that we latched on for fear of being dislikes?
I'm a young buck, so i don't really know the underlying history (you know...since i wasn't there).


----------



## SeanNewman

Sheesh...where to start...

Granatstein, while I don't agree with everything he says, nailed it quite solidly in "Whose war is it".

It is very unpopular in Canada to appear like you like the US, to the point where if a US President says 1+1=2, he almost grimaces because it puts him in a position where he must agree (thus lose face).

It's all about what is popular vs what is actually important for our country though (national interest).  For example, JC went out of his way to snub the US whenever he could, and Canadians bought it up, even thought they are our biggest trading partner and - despite some people's assertions - we really need them now that we're so interwoven, but they don't need us.

Stephen Harper understands this relationship and tries to stay on good terms, and the opposition loves tearing him apart over it, calling him Mini Bush, etc because they know the association will turn people against him.  No party is immune though, Ignatief got the same treatment for living in the US for so long.

It's very sad, actually.  They're our best friends but some people would rather they be our enemies.


----------



## pbi

Whether we like it or not, anti-Americanism has very deep roots in this country and we're being intellectually dishonest if we try to pretend it was something cooked up by the post-WWII Liberals. It wasn't. 

Many things in our history remind Canadians that we have definitely NOT always been "best friends" with the US. From the incursions during the American Revolution, the War of 1812 and the Fenian crisis, at least three generations of white, Anglo-Saxon Canadians grew up fearing the US and fretting about Free Trade and Manifest Destiny or creeping republicanism, before the 19th century was over. Let's not forget what one of the great underlying motivations was for Confederation; for building the CPR; and even sending the NWMP out West: fear of the US encroaching on us. I'll bet that if you look back objectively over our political history, you'll see that every political party, at one time or another, has exploited this innate anti-US sentiment.

While I think that today we worry more about CANUSA economic issues and beating the US
 at hockey, we are still not completely easy in our relationship with them. (Although any Canadian in their right mind would not pick any other major world power as a next door neighbour).

As we mature as nation (don't forget, we really only became a "country", as opposed to an autonomous colony, in 1931...), we need to remember that countries don't really have "friends": they have interests. Certainly, no US President who wants to have a political lifespan of any length can ever forget that. The US people (rightly) expect that he will place US interests (often domestic ones-remember Hoover's quote about foreign policy being domestic politics with "...its hat on"), above the desires and needs of foreign countries. Nothing else would be realistic. If we take a look at US political history, we can see an endless back-and forth between isolationism and interventionism, between the desire to engage and the desire to stand clear. All motivated by the national interests of the time. For example, the views of the respective US and Canadian publics in 1914 and 1939, and later again in GWII, were quite different on the idea of whose war to be involved in.

So where does all that leave us?

First, I think we need to stop this silly boy scout idea about "best friends", not least because we've abused it horribly in the area of national security. We want a very good relationship with the US (who wouldn't?) but it needs to be clearly based on recognizing just who has what interests, and just how far either partner is really going to go to accommodate the other's interest that doesn't happen to match, especially where domestic policies are concerned. This soppy " best friends" thinking leads us to make lazy assumptions about the US, then have national hissy fits when the US decides to do something we don't like.

Next, we need to be 100% sure that we never willingly pose a security threat to the US, by act or omission. Our security house has to be in complete and credible order. At the same time, we need to stop moaning endlessly about economic (and thus political) dependence on the US, and dig in very hard to get into emerging markets like China, India, Brazil and (a bit further down the road...) Africa.

And, who knows....if all that happens, a "real" friendship, based on mutual respect and trust, could emerge.

Cheers


----------



## SigO

It's interesting to see the comments on this thread, many from those who are entrusted to protect the freedoms that we have in Canadian society.  I find it particularly interesting when people assign political stripes to comments made in the media (in this case, that the author of the comments made in the article is somehow left-wing, which, incidentally, is rarely the side of the political spectrum from which this type of comment is made).  

That said, I absolutely find his opinion objectionable, as I would hope most serving and former members of the CF would agree.  But we can't have it both ways -- we either live in a free and open society that allows everyone to share their opinion whatever it is; or we live in a society where an opinion that is not shared by the masses is muzzled (this is fascism, a scheme of government that we, as free Canadians, have rejected outright).

Furthermore, to express my opinion on some of those shared in this thread (and acknowledging that this is certainly an emotional issue for me and everyone else who has felt the need to weigh in):  Those whose solution for this person is to threaten, assault, kill, imprison or otherwise, should clearly examine their words in the context of a free and open society, and should they feel so strongly as to actually believe what they are saying, consider moving to a country where the freedoms we take for granted do not exist, and where Gestapo-like organizations do. 

We (the military) exist to protect Society's values, and if we selectively choose who can speak freely or what their opinion can be, we are failing those who entrust us to stand up for democratic and free principles.  I don't like what this student said any more than any of those who shared their opinions here, but I am willing to hear it as the implications of censoring it are far more undesirable than the opinion itself.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Free speech isn't absolute my friend.......


----------



## pbi

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Free speech isn't absolute my friend.......



_(Hey...wait a second.  Look there on the path...aren't those our footsteps from a while back? Didn't we go this route already?)_

Ok, so what if we've had this out before. It's always a good one. I agree with SigO that we make a mistake when we preach the same nonsense as the people who p*ss us off. Political correctness might not be just a Leftie thing. On the Right it sometimes hides behind the word "Patriotism". We can't reduce the meaning of free speech to being just those things that we like to hear, from people we like to hear it from. That isn't free speech: it's preaching to the choir. And we certainly never want to remove debate, controversy and intellectual freedom from the post-secondary environment, even if there are some pompous (or lazy) professors who abuse it and stupid students who let them.

That said, I still think that there is a line that we have to be careful with, as difficult as that is to do. This concerns the blatant incitement to cause physical harm. In the end, the exact weight and meaning of inciting words will have to be measured on a case-by-case basis, probably by courts (hopefully not by politicians or by demagogues of the Left or the Right). Maybe this is why most liberal Western societies probably have some kind of rule about inciting violence through speech.

Cheers


----------



## Tyson Fox

_Free speech isn't absolute my friend......._

_and nobody does anything because of the freedom of the speech_

*I do not agree with a word you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it -Voltaire.*

On one hand, I can see where he's coming from if he doesn't support the war. He need revolting opinions to draw people to their side, and he reasons that if it's a bloodbath for us, an outcry will result. Furthermore, we are a pretty easy target for stuff like that. Oh well, it's like those professors at the U of R, people who supported him will slowly back away when they see the negative press.

My 0.02$


----------



## old medic

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/charges+writer+anti+Semitic+blog+posts/3122875/story.html

No charges yet for writer of anti-Semitic blog posts
Stewart Bell , National Post 
07 June 2010



> TORONTO — Three months after police launched an investigation into a Canadian who uses a website to call for a genocide of Jews, no charges have been laid and he has continued to advocate for racist violence.
> 
> According to sources familiar with the case, Ontario Provincial Police have completed their investigation and it is now in the office of Ontario Attorney-General Chris Bentley, who must decide whether to proceed with charges.
> 
> In the meantime, the subject of the investigation, Salman Hossain of Mississauga, Ont., has left Canada but continues to advocate for the mass killing of Jews on a U.S.-based conspiracy theory website.
> 
> “The Jews and their allies as a collective must be exterminated,” reads a May. 19 post that bears Mr. Hossain’s byline. “A proper invasion and genocide/slaughter is necessary to punish them,” it adds. “We must kill them off. As many of them as possible.”
> 
> Advocating genocide is illegal under Canadian law but Mr. Hossain — who calls himself “a regular Muslim supporting the jihad overseas” and a “buddy/acquaintance” of the Toronto 18 terrorists — has a history of making provocative statements on the Internet.
> 
> In 2007, after he called for terrorist attacks in Canada, supported the killing of Canadian soldiers and made offensive comments about Jews, he was investigated by CSIS, RCMP and OPP but no charges were ever laid.
> 
> Mr. Bentley told the Canadian Jewish Congress on Oct. 1, 2009 that Mr. Hossain was not charged because he had refrained from making such statements for over a year and was undergoing rehabilitation.
> 
> But Mr. Bentley promised to streamline the process for approving hate-related charges and said decisions regarding whether to prosecute would be made within 60 days of police submitting a request for charges.
> 
> “At that time we were assured that a new process was being put into place that would lead to a more speedy determination,” Bernie Farber, CEO of the CJC, said in an interview on Monday.
> 
> “Unfortunately, this most recent investigation has been moving at glacial speed which calls into question that assurance of a more streamlined process.”
> 
> The National Post reported on March 1 that police were again investigating Mr. Hossain. The Bangladesh-born Canadian was subsequently suspended from York University and left the country.
> 
> “I do not believe in ‘Canadian’ values whatever they mean,” he wrote on his website. “I forfeit my Canadian citizenship and will not literally participate in their fabricated judicial system.”
> 
> He did not respond to interview requests but his “official spokesman” wrote in an e-mail to a Post reporter: “You need to stop your harassment of Mr. Hossin, because he's not the only one calling for your execution you rat faced scumbag k*** mother f***er … Every last Jew on planet earth needs executed IMMEDIATELY.”


----------



## 57Chevy

This is to bring all on-line as to what this Salmon Hossain has been writing.
I personally find it quite sickening to know that he can actually continue.
                          ______________________________________________
Reproduced under the Fair Comment provisions of the Copyright Act:


“…a genocide should be perpetrated against the Jewish populations of North America and Europe.” Salman Hossain, Feb. 11, 2010. 


“All Jews are treasonous terrorists, and the punishment includes death. Time to break out the rope and balance the scales of justice.” Posted using the email of “Arman Hossain,” March 8, 2010.


“The Final Solution will be to eliminate the Terrorist Jewish community via mass executions from the face of this earth.” April 1, 2010.


“This is precisely why we need to start carrying out a genocide against the Jewish people … Their permanent extinction is the only solution.” April 26, 2010.


“Jews around the United States, Canada and Europe should start getting rounded up and executed via acts of collective punishment.” May 2, 2010.


“…the Jewish people … deserve nothing less than permanent extinction.” May 6, 2010.


“Jewry in America should be ready for a permanent extinction which no other group has ever seen before it.” May 7, 2010.


“The Jews and their allies as a collective must be exterminated.” Salman Hossain, May 19, 2010.


“We must kill them off. As many of them as possible.” Salman Hossain, May 19, 2010.


“We must bring the war to the West … Millions of the Western populations have to be killed off and permanently suffering with nuclear radiation since they openly cooperate with the Jews in the war on Islam.” Salman Hossain, May 19, 2010.


“It would be my ultimate wet dream to see half the population of the United States (150 million) and one third of Canadians (11 million) get slaughtered.” Salman Hossain, May 19, 2010.


----------



## Tank Troll

Wow!! Hateful little Sh!t isn't he. Glad he left the country. Hopefully he goes somewhere that he ends up looking down a 120mm smooth bore just before he hears "load canister"   "Fire"


----------



## Nauticus

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> Wow!! Hateful little Sh!t isn't he. Glad he left the country. Hopefully he goes somewhere that he ends up looking down a 120mm smooth bore just before he hears "load canister"   "Fire"


Okay, while I agree he's obviously sick, twisted, and absolutely wrong in his opinions, suggesting he get killed for it makes you no better than he.


----------



## Tank Troll

Nauticus said:
			
		

> Okay, while I agree he's obviously sick, twisted, and absolutely wrong in his opinions, suggesting he get killed for it makes you no better than he.



Not suggesting any thing.........................just hoping, and because I hope for him what he advocates for 500 million people makes me no better than him! Wow odd set of scales you have. Every one here is talking about freedom of speech, I've earned my right to it. What has he done to to earn his right? Nothing, however because he lives here (or lived here) he is still untiled to it and is protected the same way that I am. I'm good with that.


----------



## OldSolduer

Nauticus said:
			
		

> Okay, while I agree he's obviously sick, twisted, and absolutely wrong in his opinions, suggesting he get killed for it makes you no better than he.


Call me twisted and sick then. I prefer to see him on the WRONG end of a .50 cal sniper rifle. :sniper2:

In fact...I'd love to see what's left over.


----------



## Kat Stevens

If we're forming a sick and twisted club, I guess I'll sign up... Toss the little sociopath prick on a red ant hill.


----------



## wildman0101

rifleman62
quoted from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_during_the_Second_World_War

3rd largest navy when ww2 ended
4th largest air force  "    "
canada alone
pbi-agreed
Many things in our history remind Canadians that we have definitely NOT always been "best friends" with the US. From the incursions during the American Revolution, the War of 1812 and the Fenian crisis, at least three generations of white, Anglo-Saxon Canadians grew up fearing the US and fretting about Free Trade and Manifest Destiny

As we mature(matured-my insert-scotyb) as nation (don't forget, we really only became a "country", as opposed to an autonomous colony, in 1931...), we need to remember that countries don't really have "friends": they have interests. 
canada doesnt bitchslap we kick serious ass(check my ref to pbi's post)
just my 2CENTS
best regards to all
scoty b


pbi


----------



## Michael OLeary

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> Call me twisted and sick then. I prefer to see him on the WRONG end of a .50 cal sniper rifle. :sniper2:
> 
> In fact...I'd love to see what's left over.





			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> If we're forming a sick and twisted club, I guess I'll sign up... Toss the little sociopath prick on a red ant hill.




Gentlemen, we went through this type of BS a few years ago with army.ca posters invoking their death wishes on people - AND IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE CONDUCT. This is your warning, and for others who may think of posting similar comments.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## McG

> *OPP set to charge Muslim extremist; 'Ready to kill'; Man called for 'liquidation' of Jews in Web posts*
> Stewart Bell
> National Post
> 08 July 2010
> 
> Over the past three years, Salman Hossain has openly called for terrorist attacks in Canada, cheered the killing of Canadian troops in Afghanistan and urged fellow Muslims to "exterminate" Canada's Jewish population.
> 
> When police started showing up at his suburban home in Mississauga in 2007, he was not chastened. He wrote that he "honestly got a kick out of pissing off the RCMP.... HAHAHA.... You can't charge me for possessing a thought."
> 
> Canadian authorities have apparently heard enough of Mr. Hossain's thoughts. Ontario Provincial Police have scheduled a news conference for this afternoon to announce the results of a lengthy investigation into the young extremist.
> 
> He is expected to face charges of promoting hatred and, quite possibly, advocating a genocide. If so, it would mark the first time an advocating genocide charge has been prosecuted in Canada. The charges relate to hundreds of racist comments Mr. Hossain has posted on the Internet.
> 
> In an indication of the significance of the case, outgoing OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino, Deputy Commissioner Vince Hawkes and Canadian Jewish Congress CEO Bernie Farber are all scheduled to attend the 2 p.m. news conference in Toronto, along with members of the OPP Operations Intelligence Bureau.
> 
> The announcement comes nine months after Ontario Attorney-General Chris Bentley told the Jewish community the Crown had decided not to proceed with charges against Mr. Hossain because he was in a rehabilitation program to correct his behaviour.
> 
> Far from being rehabilitated, however, Mr. Hossain has only become more outspoken since then. He now openly urges Muslims to organize an invasion of Canada to overthrow the "Jewish run Canadian government" and begin the "mass extermination" of Canada's Jews.
> 
> While Mr. Hossain will face criminal charges, arresting him will be more complicated. He left the country before the OPP investigation was completed and is now in South Asia, where he continues to advocate racist violence on his U.S.-based website.
> 
> "Yes, I am a fanatic," he wrote in one of his recent posts from abroad. "I am ready to kill millions." Last week, he wrote, "We must never cease in our efforts to eliminate the Jewish people from the face of the earth. Their permanent liquidation and destruction is the only solution."
> 
> Under Canada's hate propaganda law, it is illegal to advocate or promote a genocide against an identifiable group. Offenders face up to five years imprisonment for each count. The law has been on the books for decades, but it has never been used.
> 
> Canada's only genocide trials to date have involved suspects accused of mass atrocities abroad, in countries such as Rwanda. The government has also deported suspected war criminals on the grounds they were complicit in genocides.
> 
> But Mr. Hossain's repeated calls for the mass killings of Jews may have prompted the Crown to put the genocide law to its first test. All charges under the hate propaganda section of the Criminal Code require the approval of the provincial Attorney-General.
> 
> In addition to filing charges, the OPP could use the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty to ask its law enforcement partners in the United States to shut down the website that posts Mr. Hossain's alleged hate materials.
> 
> Mr. Hossain did not respond to an email asking whether he would return voluntarily to Canada to face charges, but his "official spokesman" told a Post reporter on May 21: "You need to stop your harassment of Mr. Hossin, because he's not the only one calling for your execution you rat faced scumbag ... Every last Jew on planet earth needs [sic] executed IMMEDIATELY ..."
> 
> Born in Bangladesh, Mr. Hossain immigrated to Canada with his father and mother, who once told a reporter her son was "stupid, an idiot and immature." Online, he has described himself as "a regular Muslim supporting the jihad overseas" and a friend of the Toronto 18 terrorists who have pleaded guilty to plotting attacks in southern Ontario.
> 
> The RCMP and CSIS started investigating Mr. Hossain at least three years ago, when he began calling for terrorist attacks in Canada. In response, students at the University of Toronto Mississauga launched a campaign to have him expelled.
> 
> The OPP hate crimes and extremism unit also investigated and brought a case to the Crown but Mr. Bentley told the Canadian Jewish Congress on Oct. 1, 2009, that no charges would be laid because Mr. Hossain was in a program to help him understand and rectify his behaviour and had refrained from making similar statements for over a year.
> 
> Shortly after Mr. Bentley's announcement, Mr. Hossain resurfaced on Filthy Jewish Terrorists, a conspiracy theory website, with headlines such as "The Jews and the West must be nuked" and "The destruction of the West is the only way to exterminate the Jews."
> 
> On the website, Mr. Hossain uses terminology reminiscent of the far right and neo-Nazis, writing that "a genocide should be perpetrated against the Jewish populations of North America and Europe." Another post on the site reads, "we need to start carrying out genocide against the Jewish people ... Their permanent extermination is the only solution."
> 
> York University suspended Mr. Hossain after the National Post reported he was under investigation. "I do not believe in 'Canadian' values whatever they mean," he responded on his website. "I forfeit my Canadian citizenship and will not literally participate in their fabricated judicial system."
> 
> Canada does not have an extradition treaty with Bangladesh, but Ottawa could still ask Dhaka to arrest and return him to stand trial. At the very least, the approval of charges means he will be immediately arrested if he sets foot in Canada again.
> 
> "We are unable to comment on whether we could proceed with such a request in the abstract and in the absence of a formal request for extradition which would have to be assessed based on all of the relevant circumstances," said Paula Creighan, a spokeswoman at the Department of Justice. "Such matters would be assessed on a case-by-case basis."
> 
> Commisioner Fantino, who is stepping down next month, was closely involved in the investigation of Mr. Hossain. He said in an interview in May that he felt the website was "crossing the line significantly" and the investigation was a "high priority."
> 
> ---------
> 
> TIMELINE
> 
> June 3, 2006 Police arrest 17 people for plotting terrorist attacks in southern Ontario. Salman Hossain writes about his relationship with some of them on the website Haloscan. "I also talk about jihad overseas," he writes, "all the time."
> Sept. 5, 2007 German police arrest terrorists plotting to bomb a military base. Mr. Hossain writes that "Muslim militants" should also attack Canada and supports the killing of Canadian troops. "When do I get to shoot a few Jews down," he adds.
> Sept. 11,2007 Mr. Hossain writes that CSIS and RCMP officers have spoken to him over his call for terrorist attacks in Canada. Undeterred, he repeats them and adds that violence against the Jewish community "would knock some sense into the community at large."
> Sept. 12, 2007 "The RCMP has put me the subject of an investigation," he writes. "Harper is a Jew," he writes of the Prime Minister.
> Dec. 27, 2007 Defence Minister Peter MacKay visits Afghanistan. "I pray that the Taliban kill our Mackay motherf---er," Mr. Hossain writes.
> Jan. 30, 2008 The National Post reports that Mr. Hossain is under police investigation. Fellow University of Toronto students campaign to have him expelled.
> Feb. 9,2009 Mr. Hossain emails a National Post reporter: "Count your days goodbye motherf---er!!!" He also wrote that he hoped for the "extermination" of Jews.
> June 29, 2009 The OPP says that there were insufficient grounds to lay charges against Mr. Hossain.
> July 29, 2009 Canadian Jewish Congress meets Attorney-General Chris Bentley to complain.
> Sept. 24, 2009 The website Filthy Jewish Terrorists is registered.
> Oct. 1, 2009 Attorney-General Chris Bentley writes to the Canadian Jewish Congress, explaining that Mr. Hossain was not charged because he had not posted offensive statements online for a year and was undergoing rehabilitation to rectify his offensive behaviour. But he acknowledged the case had taken too long and promised that future decisions on whether to prosecute hate crimes would be made within 60 days of police submitting a request for charges.
> Feb. 11, 2009 Salman Hossain writes on Filthy Jewish Terrorists that "...a genocide should be perpetrated against the Jewish populations of North America and Europe." The website identifies him as the administrator.
> March 2, 2010 The National Post reports that Mr. Hossain has returned online and is again the subject of a police investigation.
> March 8, 2010 York University suspends Mr. Hossain and orders him to appear before a tribunal.
> May 19, 2010 He says he has left Canada. "The Jews and their allies as a collective must be exterminated ... We must kill them off. As many of them as possible."
> June 6, 2010 "The Jews and their allies as a collective must be exterminated."
> June 9, 2010 "Yes, I am a fanatic. I am ready to kill millions ... am I an extremist? Yes, I am."
> June 10, 2010 "We will bring the war to the West." He calls on Muslims to attack Canada, Australia, Britain, Denmark, France, Germany and the United States. "Our prime targets will be any major cities with Jews residing in them."
> June 11, 2010 "The mass executions and/or expulsion of the Jews from the Americas and Europe will have to begin as soon as possible."
> June 14, 2010 "The only solution to this Jewish problem is their permanent elimination."
> June 18, 2010 "Now I am advocating violent regime change in Western nations in order to remove the presence of Jews ... of course such regime changes will result in the slaughter of Jews."
> June 24, 2010 "We must immediately start slaughtering Jews en masse."
> July 8, 2010 -- The OPP is expected to announce charges against Mr. Hossain.


----------



## George Wallace

I agree with his mother: he is stupid.  He has fled Canada and is spewing his hatred over an American based website.  I guess he doesn't figure other agencies will target him, perhaps for termination with extreme prejudice.   >   He would have been safer staying in Canada. 

Anyway......Good riddance.


----------



## 57Chevy

I don't think he would have been safer in Canada. That's why he fled. We have laws that protect
people from this type of lowlife. The Criminal Code provides enough clout to bring those responsible
to stand before a Judge. Better known as "Hate speech laws".
Personally speaking, I think this is one man that should stand trial. He takes great pleasure in
the things that he says. More on hate crimes can be found on the link.
 LINK


----------



## George Wallace

Actually, he would be safer in Canada.  We have laws that protect this type of lowlife.  Other nations do not, and depending on what nation he has fled to, he may be an easy target.


----------



## Tank Troll

Some day, some where he will find out that there are others in this world who believe talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. Unfortunately for him this leasson will come to late and the next time we hear about him it will be postmortem


----------



## 57Chevy

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Actually, he would be safer in Canada.  We have laws that protect this type of lowlife.  Other nations do not, and depending on what nation he has fled to, he may be an easy target.


 
What laws protect this individual?   Unless I'm reading this wrong

The Criminal Code of Canada
Sections 318, 319, and 320 of the Code forbid hate propaganda.[3] "Hate propaganda" means "any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319."
 Section 318 prescribes imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years for anyone who advocates genocide. The Code defines genocide as the destruction of an "identifiable group." The Code defines an "identifiable group" as "any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Section 319 prescribes penalties from a fine to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years for anyone who incites hatred against any identifiable group. Section 320 allows a judge to confiscate publications which appear to be hate propaganda. Under section 319, an accused is not guilty: (a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true; (b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text; (c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or (d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada


----------



## The Bread Guy

News release (highlights mine):


> Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) have charged a Mississauga man under a seldom-used section of the Criminal Code of Canada governing hate crimes.
> 
> At a news conference in Toronto, Commissioner Julian FANTINO and members of the Provincial Operations Intelligence Bureau's Hate Crimes Extremism Unit outlined details of the charges against 25-year-old Salman An-Noor HOSSAIN. A five-month investigation revealed that *a website and blog operated by Mr. HOSSAIN contained information that, among other things, wilfully promoted hatred and advocated genocide of the Jewish community.
> *
> Mr. HOSSAIN is charged with:
> *
> -   Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group,
> Section 319.2 - three (3) counts
> -   Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group,
> Section 318.1 - two (2) counts*
> 
> One of the counts of wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group involved information placed by Mr. HOSSAIN on a third-party website.
> 
> "Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms includes the right to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly," said OPP Commissioner Julian FANTINO. "But we must not stand idly by when these rights are used as a shield to promote hatred against any community."
> 
> "This complex investigation is a tribute to the commitment of members of the Hate Crimes Extremism Unit," added Deputy Commissioner Vince HAWKES, Provincial Commander of Investigations and Organized Crime. "The OPP is confident we'll continue to find those responsible for committing any act motivated by hate and bring them to justice."
> 
> Representatives of the Canadian Jewish Congress and B'nai Brith Canada were also in attendance.


Can't wait to see the defence's arguments.


----------



## 57Chevy

"Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms includes the right to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly," said OPP Commissioner Julian FANTINO. "But we must not stand idly by when these rights are used as a shield to promote hatred against any community"

This quote should also stand in regards to the latest "black block" anarchists activity in Toronto.
It seems to me that every time I turn around I hear the same thing, "MY RIGHTS...MY RIGHTS".
After of which they so blatently violated someone elses' rights. It's sickening. Somewhere, sometime,
somehow, someone must draw the line.
What happened to the expression, "The buck stops here"


----------



## OldSolduer

57Chevy said:
			
		

> "What happened to the expression, "The buck stops here"



That saying went out of style in the late 60's, early 70's. 

We taught an entire generation that they have rights, but we forgot to tell them they have responsibilties and will be held accountable for their actions.
When I say we, I mean my generation. Some of these ones we forgot to tell have figured it out for themselves.

Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum that aren't responsible for anything and refuse to be held accountable for their actions.


----------



## mariomike

57Chevy said:
			
		

> What happened to the expression, "The buck stops here"



Here it is, Chevy!


----------



## bdave

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> That saying went out of style in the late 60's, early 70's.
> 
> We taught an entire generation that they have rights, but we forgot to tell them they have responsibilties and will be held accountable for their actions.
> When I say we, I mean my generation. Some of these ones we forgot to tell have figured it out for themselves.
> 
> Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum that aren't responsible for anything and refuse to be held accountable for their actions.



I disagree. I'm sure these people know very well that they are responsible for their actions. They are simply taking advantage of the system and it seems that so far they are succeeding.


			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> News release (highlights mine):Can't wait to see the defence's arguments.


I don't know much about law, but here goes:
Mr. Hossain has been charged with inciting hateful remarks towards the Canadian Forces. Specifically soldiers who are, or are destined to, deploy overseas in Afghanistan.
The problem here is that the charges of "Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group" and " Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group" is that identifiable group relates to "any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation"*[1]*. Hence, since the remarks are directed towards a non-public body, i.e. the government, it can be argued that the charges are false.

Also, 


			
				http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.319.html said:
			
		

> (a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;
> (b) if, in good faith, he expressed or attempted to establish by argument an opinion on a religious subject;
> *(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or*
> (d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada.



The statements are relevant to a subject of public interest, since it concerns Canada's role in Afghanistan. He is deluded enough to believe them whole heartedly. So, in that case, he'd also be in the clear, so to speak.
Regardless, if he was charged, he'd only get 2 years *[2]*.

I say deport him.

Source: *[1]*http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.318.html
            *[2]*http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.319.html


----------



## HavokFour

I couldn't even read the whole thing, I only made it about half way. I'm seeing red and it honestly makes me want to punt a newborn down a steep hill.   

Glad the coward fled the country though.


----------



## SocialyDistorted

I'm glad his site is based in the U.S.

Hopefully means that there won't be any "oh, we cant find the data" crap if/when he turns back up in Canada


----------



## The Bread Guy

bdave said:
			
		

> .... I don't know much about law, but here goes:
> Mr. Hossain has been charged with inciting hateful remarks towards the Canadian Forces. Specifically soldiers who are, or are destined to, deploy overseas in Afghanistan.
> The problem here is that the charges of "Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group" and " Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group" is that identifiable group relates to "any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation"*[1]*. Hence, since the remarks are directed towards a non-public body, i.e. the government, it can be argued that the charges are false ....


I read it differently - according to the news release:


> .... A five-month investigation revealed that a website and blog operated by Mr. HOSSAIN contained information that, among other things, wilfully promoted hatred and advocated genocide of the Jewish community ....


he's being charged with statements against a "section of the public distinguished by .... religion", not for statements against the CF/members thereof.


----------



## 57Chevy

Anyway, according to his charges noted earlier:
Mr. HOSSAIN is charged with:

    -   Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group,
        Section 319.2 - three (3) counts
    -   Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group,
        Section 318.1 - two (2) counts
______________________________________________________
 So then Mr. Hossain should be entitled to at least 16 years in the pen.
 that is 2X5yrs for Section 318, and 3X2yrs for Section 319.
 Maybe more.......


----------



## GK .Dundas

HavokFour said:
			
		

> I couldn't even read the whole thing, I only made it about half way. I'm seeing red and it honestly makes me want to punt a newborn down a steep hill.
> 
> Glad the coward fled the country though.


"FLED"????????????? More crawled ,sauntered  slowly rode off into the sunset  then fled the country.
 I have to ask is dithering a requirement prior to joining the OPP or do they have a course on it?


----------



## bdave

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I read it differently - according to the news release:he's being charged with statements against a "section of the public distinguished by .... religion", not for statements against the CF/members thereof.


Argh, my bad. Haven't been keeping up with this at all. 
Got my wish though. He's out of Canada.  [mountie]


----------



## larry Strong

bdave said:
			
		

> Argh, my bad. Haven't been keeping up with this at all.
> Got my wish though. He's out of Canada.  [mountie]



Personally I would rather he had been given his due process. As much as I have very little faith in today's judges there are way too many people in this country that figure you can say and do whatever your heart desires and that there should be no consequences for said actions.


----------



## George Wallace

An interesting development:


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act


Interpol issues warrant for Ont. man
08/11/2010 6:51:46 PM
CBC News 


LINK

*Interpol has issued a warrant at the OPP's request for an Ontario man wanted on charges of advocating or promoting genocide.*

Salman An-noor Hossain, a former student at the University of Toronto in Mississauga, was charged July 8 with two counts of advocating genocide and three counts of promoting hatred.

Police allege that Hossain, 25, who escaped and is now overseas, ran a website that called for the mass execution of Canadian Jews. The site accused Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad, of creating terrorist groups, such as the Toronto 18, in order to discredit Muslims. 

Hossain is also alleged to have blogged that "he would cheer the death of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan."

It was lobby groups such as Bernie Farber's Canadian Jewish Congress that first alerted police to Hossain's activities.

"This is a guy that is very committed to what he wants to do. Very committed to his hatred of Jews," Farber said.

According to Farber, Hossain escaped police by jumping out a side window of his residence as officers were knocking on his door. But Farber is convinced the Interpol warrant issued Monday will result in an arrest.

"When Interpol sends out a warrant like this it means it's of interest to every police force in the world. So he is a marked man."

Police believe Hossain is hiding in Uganda or his native Bangladesh.

Canada doesn't have an extradition treaty with either country, but a spokesman for the OPP said if Hossain is caught the federal government can use other diplomatic avenues to have him returned.

With files from CBC's Bill Gillespie


----------



## jollyjacktar

Here is a perfect candidate for getting stripped of his status in Canada.  Either citizenship or resident status.  Let Bangladesh have him.


----------



## krustyrl

That would be a perfect case of  "ANOTHER' perfect candidate...


----------



## old medic

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Here is a perfect candidate for getting stripped of his status in Canada.  Either citizenship or resident status.  Let Bangladesh have him.



They didn't strip it from the Chinese guy who cut off someone's head on a bus,  I doubt they'll do it for this.


----------



## jollyjacktar

> They didn't strip it from the Chinese guy who cut off someone's head on a bus,  I doubt they'll do it for this.



Yes, well he is mentally ill.  And that is a pass in and of itself.  

Whereas this a$$hole playing where in the world is Carmen Sandiego is not batshit crazy.  He is just a hate monger and P.O.S of the Khadr class.  England recently lost an attempt to rid themselves of this P.O.S   (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326906/Hate-preacher-Abu-Hamza-wins-human-rights-bid-UK-passport.html) when Egypt beat them to the punch of stripping status.  I do not see any reason why we could not successfully do the same, and we should.


----------



## 57Chevy

I imagine they won't be just tapping on his door the next time around.
I stand by all that I said on the thread regarding this  :evil:  lowlife.


 :clubinhand:


----------



## The Bread Guy

....according to this from Postmedia News:


> The resurrection of a website advocating the genocide of Jews and Canadians, founded by a Toronto extremist who is wanted by police, highlights the difficulties of policing the Internet, where public postings can be generated and disseminated from almost anywhere.
> 
> The website was founded by Salman Hossain, 25, a Canadian extremist who fled Canada earlier this year during a police investigation into use of the Internet to promote terrorist violence in Canada.
> 
> Police subsequently charged him with five hate crimes — two counts of advocating genocide and three counts of promoting hatred — but so far, have been unable to locate him.
> 
> The site was shut down after the charges were laid.
> 
> The National Post reported last month that the site had re-emerged on a U.S. free-speech server but was again shut down. This month, it found a new home, through Internet servers based in Switzerland ....



Here's info on who's hosting the site these days (via GoDaddy.com):


> .... Last Updated On:21-Dec-2010 00:25:21 UTC
> Expiration Date:25-Sep-2015 00:19:07 UTC
> Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
> Status:OK
> Registrant ID:de6731e932df0c9f
> Registrant Name:Albisser Paul
> Registrant Organization:Albisser Paul
> Registrant Street1:Tribschenstrasse 48
> Registrant Street2:
> Registrant Street3:
> Registrant City:Luzern
> Registrant State/Province:Luzern
> Registrant Postal Code:6005
> Registrant Country:CH
> Registrant Phone:+41.41413601540
> Registrant Phone Ext.:
> Registrant FAX:+41.41413601540
> Registrant FAX Ext.:
> Registrant Email:contact@anonymousspeech.com ...


and here's the site apparently run by the same concern, offering anonymous domain registration and hosting:
http://www.anonymousspeech.com1

Here's some details on who's hanging onto the .com and .net versions of the same domain.

Latest Interpol posting for subject POS attached.

1 - More digging shows it _may_ not be the same folks.


----------



## EMEGUY421

Greetings all,

  I didn't read the whole thread, 9 pages of rants and rage would sour my day.  The whole thing smacks of a child who is trying to be bigger than he seems, and is apparently ( to me) a cry to the public for his 15 minutes.  I say let him rave, words are harmless until acted upon.  I am a standing member in the CF who has been in the sandbox.  If this person were to attempt an attack on CF personnel who are training to deploy,  he would not be successful.  

  I am not advocating that he is right, or that people who oppose him are right, but the laws state that every person be afforded freedom of speech, and if the words are illegal then the person is subject to the penalty of law.  He was investigated and no laws were broken, or he would have been detained form the beginning. 

  Are we as levelheaded Canadian society so enraged by one persons words, that we would make the same mistake as he and utter words of our own?  Come to your senses and realize that this person is expressing thoughts, and leave it at that.  

  You legitimize his actions by reacting.

 My 2 cents.


----------



## Journeyman

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> I didn't read the whole thread....


Ah, I envy those whose opinions are so sacrosanct that they can wade into a discussion without bothering to further inform those opinions.



> If this person were to attempt an attack on CF personnel who are training to deploy,  he would not be successful.


If this person's blog incites attacks upon CF personnel, or a less-secure target such as their families, can you _really_ guarantee the attack's failure? Inciting hatred and violent action is NOT considered freedom of speech.



> You legitimize his actions by reacting.


Whereas by doing nothing, you are both condoning his actions and perhaps emboldening others to take it further.


----------



## OldSolduer

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> Greetings all,
> 
> I didn't read the whole thread, 9 pages of rants and rage would sour my day.  The whole thing smacks of a child who is trying to be bigger than he seems, and is apparently ( to me) a cry to the public for his 15 minutes.  I say let him rave, words are harmless until acted upon.  I am a standing member in the CF who has been in the sandbox.  If this person were to attempt an attack on CF personnel who are training to deploy,  he would not be successful.
> 
> I am not advocating that he is right, or that people who oppose him are right, but the laws state that every person be afforded freedom of speech, and if the words are illegal then the person is subject to the penalty of law.  He was investigated and no laws were broken, or he would have been detained form the beginning.
> 
> Are we as levelheaded Canadian society so enraged by one persons words, that we would make the same mistake as he and utter words of our own?  Come to your senses and realize that this person is expressing thoughts, and leave it at that.
> 
> You legitimize his actions by reacting.
> 
> My 2 cents.



I have a name for you. This person ranted and raved and was dismissed as a peasant etc.

Hitler.


----------



## EMEGUY421

Jim,

  I worked with your son while at 2PPCLI. 

  I respect your words. I do not think that we should play into this persons ideas because it empowers his thoughts.  I do not agree with his words, but I cannot disrespect his rights to speak them.


----------



## OldSolduer

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> Jim,
> 
> I worked with your son while at 2PPCLI.
> 
> I respect your words. I do not think that we should play into this persons ideas because it empowers his thoughts.  I do not agree with his words, but I cannot disrespect his rights to speak them.



Thank you for your kind words. I must disagree. This is not free speech, this is hate speech, pure and simple. Advocating the genocide of a race is not, IMO, free speech.


----------



## Jarnhamar

;D


----------



## The Bread Guy

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> I am not advocating that he is right, or that people who oppose him are right, but the laws state that every person be afforded freedom of speech, and if the words are illegal then the person is subject to the penalty of law.  *He was investigated and no laws were broken, or he would have been detained form the beginning*.


Re:  the bit in yellow, if you'd read Interpol's "Wanted" poster, it says this:  "Categories of Offences: CRIMES AGAINST LIFE AND HEALTH, ORGANIZED CRIME /TRANSNATIONAL CRIME Arrest Warrant Issued by: CITY OF MISSISSAUGA, SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE, CENTRAL WEST REGION OF THE PROVI / Canada".  And I guess you missed this bit too in the latest media report:  "The resurrection of a website advocating the genocide of Jews and Canadians, founded by *a Toronto extremist who is wanted by police*, highlights the difficulties of policing the Internet, where public postings can be generated and disseminated from almost anywhere."  He may have been cleared before, but if that's the case, he should have nothing to worry about speaking to police now since they appear to have more questions, right?



			
				EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> I didn't read the whole thread, 9 pages of rants and rage would sour my day.


I guess you missed a bit of INFORMATION in not reading at least the last half-dozen posts, eh?

Also, I guess that if this chap and his web page/forum posts were to incite/condone/encourage doing harm to, say, "Land based weapons doctors", or their families, you'd still be comfortable with his "freedom of speech"?   If you are, you're a bigger man than I am.

I hear what you say about keeping criticism in perspective, but this goes beyond criticizing the status quo - headlines like "Learning How To Identify Jews During Roundup Time!" or "The Destruction of the West is the Only Way to Exterminate the Jews!" strike me as *WAY* over the "civilized and reasonable debate and dissent" line.


----------



## EMEGUY421

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Re:  the bit in yellow, if you'd read Interpol's "Wanted" poster, it says this:  "Categories of Offences: CRIMES AGAINST LIFE AND HEALTH, ORGANIZED CRIME /TRANSNATIONAL CRIME Arrest Warrant Issued by: CITY OF MISSISSAUGA, SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE, CENTRAL WEST REGION OF THE PROVI / Canada".  And I guess you missed this bit too in the latest media report:  "The resurrection of a website advocating the genocide of Jews and Canadians, founded by *a Toronto extremist who is wanted by police*, highlights the difficulties of policing the Internet, where public postings can be generated and disseminated from almost anywhere."  He may have been cleared before, but if that's the case, he should have nothing to worry about speaking to police now since they appear to have more questions, right?
> I guess you missed a bit of INFORMATION in not reading at least the last half-dozen posts, eh?
> 
> Also, I guess that if this chap and his web page/forum posts were to incite/condone/encourage doing harm to, say, "Land based weapons doctors", or their families, you'd still be comfortable with his "freedom of speech"?   If you are, you're a bigger man than I am.
> 
> I hear what you say about keeping criticism in perspective, but this goes beyond criticizing the status quo - headlines like "Learning How To Identify Jews During Roundup Time!" or "The Destruction of the West is the Only Way to Exterminate the Jews!" strike me as *WAY* over the "civilized and reasonable debate and dissent" line.




 Has he actually hurt anyone? Has he been arrested?   I am not a coward, and will do what is neccessary to defend my family and myself, but I am also trained in Rules of Engagement.  You cannot go ballistic on the belief of terrorism, you have to have PROOF.

 He is an airbag that is desperately in need of a pin.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Since when does he need to "hurt someone" to be held accountable for his actions?

*Criminal Code of Canada: Hate Provisions - Summary*
http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/resources/legislation/canadian_law/federal/criminal_code/criminal_code_hate.cfm



> In most cases, hate propaganda communicated through the Internet is an offence under the Criminal Code. Amendments to the Code, made under the Anti-Terrorism Act in December 2001, further clarify measures and offences regarding Internet hate crimes.



(More at link)


----------



## EMEGUY421

Then he is the police's responsibility now, and not for us to debate anymore...


----------



## Michael OLeary

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> Then he is the police's responsibility now, and not for us to debate anymore...



Huh?  At what point did the subject cease to be suitable for debate here?

What guidelines are you using to make that determination?


----------



## Journeyman

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> Then he is the police's responsibility now, and not for us to debate anymore...


It was the "police responsibility" when you chose to 'contribute' to this thread by saying it's "his right" to foment that sort of hatred, and got called on your BS.


So once again folks, someone posts without bothering to know the topic, gets proven wrong, feelings are hurt, there's an unspoken suggestion that perhaps it's best to stay in one's lane......and we see proof yet again that there's more to _informed_ debate than merely saying "_you_ people need to come to your senses."  
Does that about sum it up?


----------



## gun runner

You will have to forgive my brother folks(EMEGUY421), he is passionate about some things, and impassive on others. This nutbar (not my brother, the other one! ) should be arrested for these ludicrous comments. and when found, locked up for the duration of his miserable existence. I again apologize for the outburst my brother has made. Ubique


----------



## Franko

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> Then he is the police's responsibility now, and not for us to debate anymore...



Don't like the debate?

Feel free to leave.

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## brihard

EMEGUY421 said:
			
		

> Has he actually hurt anyone? Has he been arrested?   I am not a coward, and will do what is neccessary to defend my family and myself, but I am also trained in Rules of Engagement.  You cannot go ballistic on the belief of terrorism, you have to have PROOF.
> 
> He is an airbag that is desperately in need of a pin.




It must be noted that there are a couple of things going on with Mr. Hossain.

Firstly, there was the 'Canadian soldiers should be fair game' comments. He was investigated for those, and widely castigated, but charges did not result. In my personal opinion - and I was quite vocal about expressing it - that was an appropriate decision. He's just some mouth breather who, as disgusting as hsi words were, did not cross the line into speech proscribed by law. I naturally resist most attempts to regulate free expression; I'd rather see society confront such opinions, rather than driving them underground where it's harder to keep track of them.

Where he crossed the line was in his publishing calls for the mass slaughter of Jews. At that point he fell on the wrong side of the Criminal Code, and he has been indicted with advocating genocide, which is a specific criminal offence. One I agree with, incidentally. It's on those charges that he's currently wanted, and it's based on that that he fled the country.

His rantings agaisnt soldiers were largely pissing into the wind and didn't carry any credible element of threat to it. His calls for the active eradication of jews wasn't much more credible, but targeting a specific race like that is objectionable enough that we've decided as a nation tha tit's a criminal offense, and with how hard it is to get an indictment for and prosecute that offense, I feel secure enough that it's a restriction on speech not likely to be abused I'm cool with it.

With that said, his actions certainly are not something that we should ignore or stop debating. It's the ability of society to confront issues like this and exposes pieces of shit for what they are that makes it unnecessary to resort to legal mechanisms in all but the most grievous cases. We *need* to be paying attention and making noise- just so that others know the sentiment's out there, if nothing else.


----------



## gun runner

Ok, well stated Brihard.This person obviously has a few nuts loose in his boiler, and is looking for some attenion from others in the same boat(zealots). His comments were rather disgusting and disturbing, for certain. But he has fled this country, most likely for his ancestral home or one that will not be sending him back too soon. I feel, and this is only myself, that we as a civilized society need to be vigilant on these individuals(zealots), with legal consequenses being severe enough to deter any further attempts to try this or other such action again. Our justice system needs to grow a set, and quickly. Maybe then these nut jobs will stay away in their caves or wherever they come from. :2c:


----------

