# Ranger Course



## typhoon85

I just want to know if the ranger school is open to  canadian ncms or just officers or both. My Dad (ex.airborne ranger 67-72 C/75 RGR I Field Force) said that when he was there they only had officers from other countries because they could go back and train the ncm‘s. And if canadian ncms are allowed what are the requirments to go?

Thank you  for your time


----------



## Pugil

Thats weird, NCO are the one who train the troops not the officers, in a course they are there for paperwork. Ive known some NCOs who did their US ranger course(im not sure if thats the course you are talking about)


----------



## combat_medic

Yeah, it‘s possible for Canadian NCOs or NCMs to go, but USUALLY it‘s only given to people who already have the Canadian pathfinder course (which is much longer and harder, by the way) or are in some para capable unit, or in a recce platoon, and is pretty much exclusively offered to the reg force. 

There are exceptions to this, as always.


----------



## typhoon85

Pugil  that is true about this country and the u.s but maybe in some countries they have officers teaching..i don‘t know that is what he said..... he could be wrong to.


Combat medic i have also read that the pathfinder course was a lot harder...it was on the dnd site......they had us rangers saying that it was even tougher then ranger school.I found it by typing in pathfinder in the dnd search engine.


----------



## typhoon85

After the you do the pathfinder course what unit are u then qualifed for a recce pl? or is there a actual pathfinder unit?Or would u just go back to your infantry company?


----------



## Recce41

Sean
 The Pathfinder course is open to all trades. You don‘t really have to be in a Recce Ptl. I‘m Armour and was slated for the course but due to taskings I got bumped. 
 The PF is harder, my Brother in Law did both. He said the only hard think about the Ranger course is
 the jungle phase , we don‘t have jungle here in Canada. As posted I have the study package, if anyone would like it. 
 DND is given 5 openings for the Ranger course and most of the time a Canadian tops it.


----------



## Pugil

Even with the Ranger jungle phase it is done in Florida, it is not really a jungle over there. im not saying thats easy but the real jungle is in the southern hemisphere. The SAS do their jungle phase in Brunei or Malaysia (not sure) for a full month.


----------



## typhoon85

Do u get to wear the Ranger tab on your combats to?Or just on your dress uniform?

Since where on the topic off international army courses what other courses are quite popular in the canadian forces to take?


----------



## Fusaki

> As posted I have the study package, if anyone would like it.


yes please   

my email and msn is bacardi_by_night@hotmail.com

thank you!!


----------



## brackett

The SAS and British Paras train in the jungles of Belize formerly the British Honduras.


----------



## Doug VT

The Pathfinder course is definitly not a prereq to the Ranger course.  In fact, I personally don‘t know anyone who has both courses.

You can wear the Ranger tab on your DEU‘s.


----------



## Jungle

I know at least one. He did PPF first, then Ranger. But PPF is definately not a prereq for Ranger.


----------



## Doug VT

One guy that I know did Ranger first, then went on PPF.  When he got feed up with the crap that comes with the course he pretty much said screw this, I‘ve got my Ranger course....and PI and MFPI and MOI and the list goes on...


----------



## Pugil

MOI(Mountain operations instructor) is one of the hardest course in the CF. We dont hear it often, the failure rate is around 50% and the course last around 2 and half months . I had a vandoos instructor who did pathfinder, ranger and MOI. He recently came back from the Cambrian patrol winning silver medal.


----------



## muskrat89

Thank you, Pugil - for telling us about an interesting course that Canadians do. We lament the average Canadian citizen‘s lack of knowledge about the CF, and it seems that we talk more about Rangers and the Foreign Legion and Delta Force on here, than we do our own stuff...


----------



## typhoon85

"We lament the average Canadian citizen‘s lack of knowledge about the CF"


"and it seems that we talk more about Rangers and the Foreign Legion and Delta Force on here, than we do our own stuff... "

Then start a post on Canadian courses...that could be a start.....just my opinion...


"Thank you, Pugil - for telling us about an interesting course that Canadians do"

Canadians do the Ranger course y can‘t we be interested in that?


----------



## Fusaki

> Then start a post on Canadian courses...


please do!!!


----------



## combat_medic

> Canadians do the Ranger course y can‘t we be interested in that?


The problem is not interest, but exclusivity. People come on this forum and ask about the rangers, the marines, recon, and other American bull$hit. I‘m not sure if you‘ve noticed, but the URL for this site is CDN army, not US army. For the most part, if there is a Canadian equivalent to American courses, they‘re longer and more difficult. Why not be interested in those? If all you want to do is the ranger course, go talk to an American recruiter and change your citizenship (besides, it would be easier to get that way). If you want to do the pathfinder course, then by all means stay. 

American courses are not the be all and end all by any stretch of the imagination. While me may be low on funding and technology, Canadian training is some of the best in the world. Yes, Canadians will do the Ranger course, but they may also do training with the SAS or Foreign Legion, which, by the way, is way harder than the Ranger course.


----------



## onecat

Well said.  To many people in Canada think the end all and be all of most things is American. Be it movies, music or combat courses. 

It doesn‘t help that there little information on  these courses on DnD sites.  Unless I‘ve missed then by all means, please list them as I would to read up on them; and who knows maybe even take some them in the future.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Part of the problem is a scarcity of readily available on-line information regarding Canadian Army courses run by any of the combat arms. Popular media hype results in certain roles (snipers, pathfinders, etc.) and types of units (marines, JTF-2, etc) being popularized as career targets for the eager potential recruit. 

Even as these discussions go back and forth over what certain choices mean for training and career experiences, we often miss the point of frequency (of courses), probability of attending (both by timings and numerical odds) and the realistic integration of certain skills into a military career.

For example (the following are rough numbers off the top of my head), we have about 60,000 in the CF, at 600 per infantry battalion there are 5400 in the Regular Force infantry battalions, and at about 6 snipers per battalion, there are 54 soldiers in ‘hard‘ sniper positions at any one time. Even if we replace them at a rate of 50% annually and no vacancies are filled by previously trained snipers returning to the sections, it means that the infantry training requirement for snipers is 27 per year, split between 9 battalions. So, 1% of infantry soldiers are in a sniper cell, and, on average one soldier in 200 gets the course each year. 

If we want to reorient new discussion topics to the higher-probability courses, the ones many prospective recruits will eventually get one or more of, we first need to share the available information of the courses being conducted.

The Infantry Schooll website can be found at   http://www.brunnet.net/infsch/  

Follow the left-hand menu links for "The School" and "Joining Instructions", this document identifies the courses run by that school. (I expect the moderators would also like us to move these threads to the applicable Corps forum.)

Questions on these courses should be posed starting a new thread for each relevant course.

I have yet to locate on-line lists of courses run by the Armour or Artillery School, perhaps our black hat and gunner friends can help here.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Here is another page with some published joining instructions for Reserve courses:

  http://www.4rcr.com/operations/ops.html


----------



## Fusaki

thanks, Michael OLeary!

can someone tell me what the Assult Pioneer Course is about? what is an Assult Pioneer Element?


----------



## Michael OLeary

Fusaki, see response under "Infantry."

Mike


----------



## Sphinx

> As posted I have the study package, if anyone would like it.


Yea could you send me one too 
t_k7_9@yahoo.com

thanks


----------



## jonsey

I was just watching a show on the Discovery Channel about a class going through Ranger School, and there were soldiers from Germany, and Ghanna (sp?) (as well as a Marine). I was just wondering if any Canadian Soldier has attended (I would assume so), and how many? 


Just curious.


----------



## D-n-A

Yes, Canadian Soldiers have attended the US Army Ranger school.

If you search the forums, your find a few topics on the subject.


----------



## jonsey

I didn't see any when I searched before posting the topic. I saw a few on combat boots, weapons and stuff like that, but nothing on the Ranger School.  Maybe I missed it.  


EDIT:: I used the term "Rangers" the first time, and I just tried "Ranger School" with no results.


----------



## dutchie

A lot of Canadians have atended this course over the years.....I know of 4, and that's just the reserve world (these are ex-reg guys).

Needless to say, there are lots....probably in the hundreds.


----------



## Scott

Canadians not only attend Ranger School, but LRRP school (At least the old version which was in Germany), SAS Selection, French Foreign Legion Jungle Warfare School, the list goes on. You can search on the internet and find examples of these both units and individuals

Cheers


----------



## Pugnacious

Yup and few weeks back some kind person here posted the link to the ranger handbook PDF file.

Here is is to save you some search time:
http://www.siena.edu/armyrotc/docs/Ranger%20Handbook/Ranger%20Handbook.pdf

It's pretty neat stuff.
Cheers!
P.


----------



## ramy

wow that ranger handbook is cool. Lot of neat stuff in there.

Just wondering why this stuff is released online though.... It can get in enemy hands....


----------



## bossdog

I'm not surprised that the manual is online. What I am surprised about is it's root server (Siena College, NY). I've noticed that most of the US military training doctrines are unclas (maybe that's how the Iraqis knew to hit them in the rear). I remember old Canadian manuals being restricted, but we rarely follow our own doctrine anyhow...lol


----------



## bossdog

PS - I know a handful of Canadian soldiers that also attended the Air Assult course in the US.


----------



## jonsey

Hey, thanks guys.


----------



## D-n-A

You can buy pretty much every training manuel the US Army has online or in surplus stores aswell for fairly cheap.


----------



## Pugnacious

Well just like that worn out Bin ladin training tape with the guys going hand over hand on monkey bars..simply don't have monkey bars leading to your base and you should be OK.  ;D

Cheers!
P.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

Its funny you mention this.  It just came down last week for anyone Mcpl or higher that there were some spots open


----------



## MJP

Hmm I wonder why only MCpl and up.  Many an experienced Cpl has gone on the course and done extremly well.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

You know the answer as well as I do.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

To bad your going to the GAN.  You'd be perfect.  Our RSM (Ranger qualified) is running the PT test at our unit.


----------



## logau

Good luck Ranger candidates!


----------



## MJP

I'd love to go.....I've got a recently Ranger qualified Pl Comd right now and he uses allot of the stuff he learned on course in the operation of the Pl.  I especially like the way they do orders.  They delgate certain ppl to write certain parts of the orders...IE: the WO does Service Support, the Pl Signaller does Comd and Sigs, someone else would write the Situation etc etc.


----------



## pbi

Lots of Canadian soldiers have taken the Ranger course (and the SF course) and a number of them have topped it. As a rule, Canadians do very well on US courses, or on operations or exercise with US forces. US types are often amazed at the high quality of our people, especially our junior NCOs. Ask anybody who was with 3PP in Afghanistan what the US Army thought about the Patricias' during OP APOLLO. Cheers.


----------



## casing

pbi said:
			
		

> Ask anybody who was with 3PP in Afghanistan what the US Army thought about the Patricias' during OP APOLLO.



Well, not _anybody_.   Andrew Exum seemed to think the Canadians were a bunch of older (joining up after spending many years in hard labour jobs), high school dropouts tending toward a little crazy with less than impressive field skills (not his words exactly, but basically what he said in his book).

Sorry, don't mean to hi-jack the thread.


----------



## pbi

I'm sorry that I've never heard of this Exum fellow, nor read his book. I'm relying more on the opinions expressed by people like the Commander of TF "Rakkasan" and other US leaders who observed our troops. Just for a start, Exunm's description of our troops makes no sense and appears to be completely at odds with the nature and skill level of our troops, especially the folks in 3PP which is a light battalion, and had undergone a rigorous training regime to prepare itself for the mission. By contrast, everything I have heard indicates that the US forces found the PPCLI soldiers to be at least as good if not far better than their own, and in some cases equal to their own Rangers. This doesn't really surprise me, based on what I have seen of both armies over the years. This would seem to be a fairly common US reaction, if only because they are surprised to see that Canada can actually produce good soldiers.

But, perhaps this Mr Exum saw and heard different things: I guess he has the right of free speech. Cheers.


----------



## casing

I agree with you.  Was just pointing out that not everyone has a stellar impression.  It's always subjective and I think Exum just dropped a few tidbits he thought would be interesting--the way the comments came across to the readers were probably not the intended impression.  At least, I prefer to give Exum the benefit of the doubt rather than condemn him about a few short passages.


----------



## George Wallace

Casing said:
			
		

> ...... Was just pointing out that not everyone has a stellar impression. It's always subjective and I think Exum just dropped a few tidbits he thought would be interesting--the way the comments came across to the readers were probably not the intended impression. At least, I prefer to give Exum the benefit of the doubt rather than condemn him about a few short passages.



Well reading page two of your SOCNET link I am under the impression that Exum found the Cdn troops quite proficient, but failed to mention that in his book and also took liberties to write second and third hand accounts as fact when dealing with 3VP.   He may have unjustly raised a 'S***" -Storm this side of the border.

GW


----------



## casing

Yes, Exum _did_ provide his stellar opinion in his second response on page two.  Even though he makes "it very clear" there, he didn't in his book.  

Anyway, this is clearly off topic.  Sorry for creating a tangent.


----------



## jarko

So what kind of things should you do to get a chance of going to the ranger course, just wondering because I am currently in the process of joining the Canadian Army (Infantry reg force) and probably would be interested to go if I had the chance.


----------



## Infanteer

> So what kind of things should you do to get a chance of going to the ranger course



1) Join the Army
2) Pass your Basic Training (BMQ/SQ)
3) Pass your Infantry Qualification (BIQ)

Anything beyond that and you're taking your eye off the ball jarko.


----------



## Armymedic

MJP said:
			
		

> I've got a recently Ranger qualified Pl Comd right now and he uses allot of the stuff he learned on course in the operation of the Pl. I especially like the way they do orders. They delegate certain ppl to write certain parts of the orders...IE: the WO does Service Support, the Pl Signaller does Comd and Sigs, someone else would write the Situation etc etc.



Thats an outstanding idea. Use your resources to their ability. Maybe its a trait all leaders should follow.


----------



## Unknown Factor

jarko said:
			
		

> So what kind of things should you do to get a chance of going to the ranger course, just wondering because I am currently in the process of joining the Canadian Army (Infantry reg force) and probably would be interested to go if I had the chance.



Of the now 6 slots a year that are offered, consider this 60,000 soldiers ind CF - you could have a 1 in 10,000 shot each year in any branch other than the Army. If you join the Army you'd have a 1 in 3333 chance and finally if you join the infantry you'd reduce those chances to 1 in 1000.  So do you feel lucky? well do ya?


----------



## geo

what do you have to do to get nominated to the ranger course...
As stated - enroll, pass basic & basic trade course
become the best soldier that you can be and again try to get better.
When the Battalion is offered an opening, they won`t be sending the lowliest/ sad excuse / least capable soldier of the unit.... they`re gonna send their "king".... so you`ve gotta be "da king"

Good luck


----------



## Bartok5

Fellas,

Put the "Exum" bullshit to rest.  Read the threads below, and then please carry on.  In short form, the guy was a "know-nothing" Platoon-level boob who quickly retracted his baseless allegations when confronted by reality.  Hardly the stuff of unimpeachable knowledge.....

I offer the following:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32691.0.html

And for a direct link to my refutation and Exum's back-pedalling you can go here (note that you may need to register on the Lightfighter.com forum to obtain the truth):

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49888&highlight=Exum

He completely pooched his war-based "fictional account", and admitted as much when I challenged him in an open forum on Socnet.  Exum is/was a bull-shit artist of the highest order, and I shut him down in public.  End of story.

Mark C


----------



## Mdrinka

I wasn't sure if I should've made a new thread or reply here, so my apologies if I chose the wrong decision.

About Canadians attending US Ranger school, do these Canadians have U.S. citizenship, or is Ranger School an exception?


----------



## Haggis

Mdrinka said:
			
		

> I wasn't sure if I should've made a new thread or reply here, so my apologies if I chose the wrong decision.
> 
> About Canadians attending US Ranger school, do these Canadians have U.S. citizenship, or is Ranger School an exception?



Citizenship is not an issue.  The US Army offers vacancies to other allied nations.  CF soldiers can fill those vacancies and remain serving members of the CF and retain Canadian citizenship.


----------



## 3rd Herd

Besides the full blown Ranger course which if memory serves me correct Canadians have been coming in first and second as long as they have been inviting us to partake in. There was also the RIP(Ranger INDOC Program) which some of us in the dinosaur days got. To avoid a pissing contest look in the "Patrician" issues 1980/1981/1982. My smiling face is on one of the pages.


----------



## KevinB

Keep in mind that members of the 75thRR going on Ranger courses have been in the unit typically 6 months to a year

We send M/Cpl's, Sgt's, Lt's and Capt's  -- the concept that a more experienced soldier doing better is not unusual.
  The other US pers on the course will likley be from straight leg units and not have the LightFighter skills either.


----------



## plattypuss

Not to damper the enthusiasm for the Ranger course (there is a certain look cool factor associated with it) but you can look at lot closer to home for a similar course.  The former Parachute Centre (now the CF Land Advanced Warfare Centre) has the Patrol Pathfinders Course in which they do some pretty significant stuff.  This year the course worked with the Canadian Navy and did some submarine insertions, did some training with the US Marines/SCTF once the course was completed.  Its' in the process of being revamped and there is always a push to get people on it.  Have a look - you're chances might be better to get on this course then the US Ranger course passing it of course is another issue...


----------



## little jim

Then again the CF had something like 19 positions on US Army Ranger from Sep 06 to Nov 07.  I have heard but cannot confirm that only four people passed PPF last year…..

You might be better off going on the ranger course and using your skills within the Army – one of the Infantry Battalions or an Engr Regt.  Or you could take PPF so you could be part of the Maritime Amphibious Unit – waiting for the SCF to actually become IOC…buy boats ….get deployed…or maybe you just want to get posted to Halifax.

Third option:
You could try for selection to CSOR and do all that stuff and more (shameless recruiting plug)


----------



## aesop081

little jim said:
			
		

> OR you could go to CSOR and do all that stuff and more (shameless recruiting plug)



You forgot to add " ..and live in the wonderful metropolis called Petawawa"  ;D


----------



## little jim

davidhmd said:
			
		

> Except that PPF don't just do SCF...



There are no more Pathfinder Platoons.  Sure the Inf Bn want these guys in their Recce Pls.  But still those are Recce Pls not Pathfinder Platoons.

MAU is the only place that says you have to be PPF (or CD) to join.  Well that and the cell at CFLAWC.


----------



## retiredgrunt45

Canadian soldiers have been attending the US ranger school for years, thats nothing new. I know with the RCR they usually send down officers to attend the course. We had a a Captain in Germany during the early 80's who went on a the course and came back with his ranger patch.


----------



## Can-american

Speaking from someone who wears the Ranger tab I can say there are people from allied nations those people are usual officers and the majority right now are from the middle east, I bared witness to a fellow from Kenya.  6 slots a year? Good luck in getting one of those, I also knew that soldiers hear beat there head to get the course. I was lucky and I realize that, the only ones that get the right to go are American officers along with lads from battalion whom are spc and above (coming back from tours), if they are not chosen to go then they will be weeded out of Ranger Bat.  You can find 2 versions of the Ranger manual on the internet make sure it is the updated one.  There is a wide range of field manuals on the internet just search around. Take care


----------



## When_in_doubt_rack_out

Anyone know if the CF is still running ranger courses?


----------



## kincanucks

What?  You are in the Canadian Forces not the US Forces.


----------



## MJP

Charlie dont surf said:
			
		

> Anyone know if the CF is still running ranger courses?



We don't run the course but we certainly still send candidates on the US Ranger course  Talk to your Pl WO and let him know that you want to be considered for the course.  In 2VP I know of at least one Sgt currently there that has his course that you can go to for info, so ask around.


----------



## When_in_doubt_rack_out

MJP said:
			
		

> We don't run the course but we certainly still send candidates on the US Ranger course  Talk to your Pl WO and let him know that you want to be considered for the course.  In 2VP I know of at least one Sgt currently there that has his course that you can go to for info, so ask around.



I know exactly who you are talking about, thats actually why im asking he got his a while back same with a guy im working with out here in borden. I just wasnt sure if they still did that


----------



## punkd

I seen some requests for nominations back around September.. they were for a few different Ranger courses going on within the year.
They were looking for around 12 candidates. So, yes they are still taking CF members on their course.


----------



## ryanB

there are 6 spots every year for Canadians on the course. every bat should run there own pt testing and send their nominations to brigade.


----------

