# Command Badges



## Taptrick (11 Nov 2009)

I graduated from the Canadian Forces Leadership & Recruit School (CFLRS) in St-Jean, Qc this summer and for the graduation parade we were given command badges (that is, the metallic badge worn on the right breast pocket of the DEU) that represent the Chief Military Personnel insignia (bottom left http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/acm-scp/index-eng.asp)...  I'm not really sure what it represents (feel free to educate me on this matter) but I was wondering if I should still wear it.  I was told that I would receive an Air Command badge (bottom of the page http://www.mpmuseum.org/securbadge3.html) to replace it but I'm not even sure they give those anymore.  I often see people wearing the Land Forces Command badge but I've never seen anyone with the Air Command's...

I know the commanding officer normally has the power to issue the instructions on those "wear/don't wear" things  so it varies from one unit to another but still, if anyone could help?


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## George Wallace (11 Nov 2009)

The Commanding Officer of a Unit DOES NOT decide whether or not you wear a Command Badge.  The decision as to what Command Badge you wear will be determined by what Command you belong to.  You don't have any choice as to what Command Badge you wear, nor does a Unit CO.  If you belong to Air Command, you will wear the Air Command Badge.  If you belong to Training Systems then you will wear their badge.  If you belong to Land Force Command, then you will wear their Command Badge.  What Element your DEU may be is also NOT a factor as to what Badge you wear.  The Command that you belong to is the deciding factor.


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## Taptrick (11 Nov 2009)

Well George Wallace, you have just made me realise that the obvious is, in fact, pretty obvious  

The only thing I don't really get is: why is so many people not wearing command badges?


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## PMedMoe (11 Nov 2009)

Taptrick said:
			
		

> The only thing I don't really get is: why is so many people not wearing command badges?



Probably because Clothing Stores is constantly frequently out of them.


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## aesop081 (11 Nov 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Probably because Clothing Stores is constantly frequently out of them.



The air force doesnt have one........thats a good reason not to wear one.


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## dimsum (12 Nov 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The air force doesnt have one........thats a good reason not to wear one.



Neither does the Navy.


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## dapaterson (12 Nov 2009)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Neither does the Navy.



Really?

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Canada-NAVY-enameled-Maritime-Command-chest-badge_W0QQitemZ330354770250QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4ceaadc14a

is something I've seen worn by sailors...


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## kratz (12 Nov 2009)

I double checked my answer with a PLQ Instructor. 

Yes, the MARCOM badge for sale on eBay was in use when we all wore the unification green uniform. Once we went to the current DEU, this command badge has not been authorized for use.

For a moment I thought I had been wearing my uniform incorrectly the past 13 years.


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## McG (12 Nov 2009)

Taptrick said:
			
		

> I graduated from the Canadian Forces Leadership & Recruit School (CFLRS) in St-Jean, Qc this summer and for the graduation parade we were given command badges (that is, the metallic badge worn on the right breast pocket of the DEU) that represent the Chief Military Personnel insignia (bottom left http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/acm-scp/index-eng.asp)...  I'm not really sure what it represents (feel free to educate me on this matter) but I was wondering if I should still wear it.  I was told that I would receive an Air Command badge (bottom of the page http://www.mpmuseum.org/securbadge3.html) to replace it but I'm not even sure they give those anymore.  I often see people wearing the Land Forces Command badge but I've never seen anyone with the Air Command's..


If you are currently posted to a CFRG School, then you should be wearing he CMP Command pin.  If you are at a school  that falls under 2 CAD, then you should not be wearing the CMP Command badge.


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## Haggis (12 Nov 2009)

The VCDS Group doesn't have a command badge either.  If you're being posted to any of the CF training establishments, they fall under Chief of Military Personnel and, therefore, you would wear the Military Personnel Command badge while there.


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## - m i l l e y - (12 Nov 2009)

> Yes, the MARCOM badge for sale on eBay was in use when we all wore the unification green uniform. Once we went to the current DEU, this command badge has not been authorized for use.
> 
> For a moment I thought I had been wearing my uniform incorrectly the past 13 years.



I personally think it'd be nice to see the MARCOM badge come back into service.  I think it (command badges) look quite nice on the naval tunics.


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## McG (13 Nov 2009)

Haggis said:
			
		

> If you're being posted to any of the CF training establishments, they fall under Chief of Military Personnel and, therefore, you would wear the Military Personnel Command badge while there.


That is simply not true.  The Area Training Centres belong to the Army.  Everything in CTC (including its Ontario Schools) belong to the Army.  All the 2 CAD training establishments belong to the Air Force.  I'm also pretty sure that on at least one coast you will find Navy owned schools.


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## dapaterson (13 Nov 2009)

Haggis said:
			
		

> The VCDS Group doesn't have a command badge either.  If you're being posted to any of the CF training establishments, they fall under Chief of Military Personnel and, therefore, you would wear the Military Personnel Command badge while there.



Actually, CMP owns the recruit school in St Jean, CFSAL in Borden, the MilCols in Kingston and St Jean, and a few other purple schools - most training establishments are owned by the ECSes (Navy, Army and Air Force).


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## ballz (13 Nov 2009)

Okay... so the command badge with the lion on it? Which one is that? I was wondering why we all got the same one, I guess this answers that.

That's the one I got at CFLRS this summer and still have it...


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## PMedMoe (13 Nov 2009)

ballz said:
			
		

> Okay... so the command badge with the lion on it? Which one is that?



Chief Military Personnel.  Kind of a "catch all" group.


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## FDO (13 Nov 2009)

Why, if I am in a NAVY uniform with no other Command Badge ( currently I wear the CMP) would I need to wear a a MARCOM badge? The fact that I am IN an Navy uniform would tell you that I belong to MARCOM. We used to wear the MACOM sheild when we wore the green uniform so people knew we were Navy or Sea Element. It's pretty much a no brainer now even with a CMP badge that I am Navy. All a badge  does is give me something else to keep straight on my tunic and it gets lost in my locker on the ship.   The Army is huge on shiny stuff on their uniforms. There is usually some tradition  behind it. What I would like to see is a cloth crest for my NCDs while I'm working  here.


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## Greymatters (13 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> The Army is huge on shiny stuff on their uniforms. There is usually some tradition  behind it.



Its more part of the army culture than tradition...


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## McG (13 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> The fact that I am IN an Navy uniform would tell you that I belong to MARCOM.


No it does not.  Having a navy uniform does not preclude you from being posted to any of the different level 1.  You can wear a Navy uniform and be posted to the Army, the Air Force, ADM(Mat), VCDS, CANOSCOM, etc, etc.  At the same time, pers in Army or Air uniforms can be posted to the Navy.  The colour of your uniform does not tell where you belong.


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## FDO (13 Nov 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> No it does not.  Having a navy uniform does not preclude you from being posted to any of the different level 1.  You can wear a Navy uniform and be posted to the Army, the Air Force, ADM(Mat), VCDS, CANOSCOM, etc, etc.  At the same time, pers in Army or Air uniforms can be posted to the Navy.  The colour of your uniform does not tell where you belong.



I never said I couldn't be posted to an Army base. As a Bos'n (hard sea trade) I am now posted to CMP! I said I didn't need a Maritime Command Badge to show I was in the Navy when I was wearing a Navy uniform. My wife is also posted to an Army unit and as such wears the Land Force Command Badge. However, it is very easy to tell she is Navy. When I am posted back to a ship do I need to wear a badge on my Navy uniform to tell you I am in the Navy? No!


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## daftandbarmy (14 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> Why, if I am in a NAVY uniform with no other Command Badge ( currently I wear the CMP) would I need to wear a a MARCOM badge? The fact that I am IN an Navy uniform would tell you that I belong to MARCOM. We used to wear the MACOM sheild when we wore the green uniform so people knew we were Navy or Sea Element. It's pretty much a no brainer now even with a CMP badge that I am Navy. All a badge  does is give me something else to keep straight on my tunic and it gets lost in my locker on the ship.   The Army is huge on shiny stuff on their uniforms. There is usually some tradition  behind it. What I would like to see is a cloth crest for my NCDs while I'm working  here.



Applause.

I have no idea what value a command badge adds to the planet, or army. 

I'm in an army brigade, which is part of ..... uh... should be a division but we'll let that one slide. In any case, I know I'm in the army, everyone else knows I'm in the army (the kilt is a dead give away, I know, but humour me here). Why do I need a cheesy little enamel pocket badge to confirm that fact? 

I've still got my old man's 3 Div shoulder patch, which really meant something at one time. I'll hang onto it in case the army decides to reintroduce it. :cheers:


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## McG (14 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> I said I didn't need a Maritime Command Badge to show I was in the Navy when I was wearing a Navy uniform.


Really?  Even wandering around through Halifax there is a possibility that you in your Navy uniform do not belong to MARCOM.  There are CMP positions out there.  There are possibly CANADACOM & CANOSCOM positions out there.  If everyone wanders around without Command Pins, then I cannot know by uniform colour who they report to. 



			
				daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I'm in an army brigade, which is part of ..... uh... should be a division but we'll let that one slide. In any case, I know I'm in the army, everyone else knows I'm in the army (the kilt is a dead give away, I know, but humour me here). Why do I need a cheesy little enamel pocket badge to confirm that fact?


No, your kilt does not tell people that your CoC eventually reports up to the CLS.  The Command pin does tell people that.  You Brigade patch would imply that, but not everyone within Land Forces Command gets a brigade patch.

Your kilt tells people that you are from the land environment, but that does not necessary mean you are in Land Forces Command.  You could, on a Class B contract, report to CMP or ADM(Mat) or ADM(IE); you could even be employed in MARCOM.  The Command pin tells people which L1 you belong to.  The colour of your uniform does not.


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## Haggis (14 Nov 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> Your kilt tells people that you are from the land environment, but that does not necessary mean you are in Land Forces Command.  You could, on a Class B contract, report to CMP or ADM(Mat) or ADM(IE); you could even be employed in MARCOM.  The Command pin tells people which L1 you belong to.  The colour of your uniform does not.



I wear a kilt and work at VCDS which doesn't even have a command badge.


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## Journeyman (14 Nov 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> Your kilt tells people that you are from the land environment.....


In daftandbarny's particular case, it could be just as easily linked to his predilection for dressing as a Catholic school girl....   
>


[end thread hijack  ;D ]


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> When I am posted back to a ship do I need to wear a badge on my Navy uniform to tell you I am in the Navy? No!



Especially with the lack of supervision onboard! You'd probably put your eye out with the sharp pointy edges. ;D


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## FDO (14 Nov 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> Really?  Even wandering around through Halifax there is a possibility that you in your Navy uniform do not belong to MARCOM.  There are CMP positions out there.  There are possibly CANADACOM & CANOSCOM positions out there.  If everyone wanders around without Command Pins, then I cannot know by uniform colour who they report to.



Now we are starting go around again. Of course if I was not part of CMS I would wear the Command Badge of the command I am currently serving under. And like I said I do. I currently wear CMP. Again if you read carefully you would see that I said when I was wearing my Navy uniform it would be a no brainer what Command I belonged to. Besides why is it so important knowing who I report to? If you ask me who I work for I'll tell you. Think of it as a way to start conversations and make new friends!


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## McG (14 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> ... if you read carefully you would see that I said when I was wearing my Navy uniform it would be a no brainer what Command I belonged to.


It is not a "no brainer."  The absence of a Command pin does not tell me who you work for.  You wear your navy uniform your whole career regardless of where you are working.  With no Command pin, you might be in MARCOM, but you might also be visiting from the VCDS shop or a recruiting centre guy without the CMP badge (because the SM didn't renew the contract in time to keep the supply system stocked).



			
				FDO said:
			
		

> Besides why is it so important knowing who I report to?


I have objected to the statement that the Command pins do not have a purpose (because they do have a purpose).  I haven't said that the purpose was important.

I have also objected the the position that an individual's uniform colour indicates which Command they belong to (because uniform colour alone does not convey this information).  Once again, this is not a statement that it is important for the uniform o communicate this information.

Is it important?  From an army perspective, being able to look at a soldier and identify where he reports can assist with command & control or preventing guys getting lost in crowds (because there are a lot of us all wandering about without the nice boundaries of a ship's hull to keep us together & avoid intermingling).  Of course, this was probably more important historically .... but then, the other two ECSs also seem to think that showing CoC is important (they do it even more prominently and on operational clothing too).  Consider the great big squadron patches worn on aircrew suits, or the giant yellow ship's name printed on the NCD ball cap.  

Maybe a command pin is not "important."  It does serve a purpose that no other item of uniform fills (it shows who you report to when all dressed-up on Remembrance Day), and across the military we seem to have determined it is important to show-off the hierarchy that we report to.


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## kratz (15 Nov 2009)

I have been considering this since the discussion between elements began, and MCG's statement has opened the door to my thoughts. His post almost made my point, based on order of dress, DEU compared to Operational Dress, the Navy and Air Force is more worried on how to ID who reports to where these days. You mentioned the ball caps, or the ship's crest on the NCDs. Those change faster on on crew members than many soldier's DEU Command Badge.

We are talking about Identifying pers and a formal dress uniform. WRT the Air or Naval elements, they are tending to show a unified front. Sending a, "we are one" message. Under operations, we work and report as displayed.

This is a cross-culteral differance, not a life of death problem within the CF.


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## aesop081 (15 Nov 2009)

I'm sorry but thats a weak argument. For the limited number of times in a year where i wear my DEUs, the need to identify what command i report to is a non-issue.


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## kratz (15 Nov 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm sorry but thats a weak argument. For the limited number of times in a year where i wear my DEUs, the need to identify what command i report to is a non-issue.



In my post above I just said the same thing. The Air and Navy do not need to identify on their DEU. Where we want to be found, is in operational clothing. We also were that most often.

If the Navy or Air is in a position to be ID'd, it's for beau's or bow tie's. Or we are lost/dead and need help being ID'd. Under OPs, that is where things like ID means more to me. Yes, there are other methods/policies but a dress uniform? Forget it. It's bragging rights for someone higher up.


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## daftandbarmy (15 Nov 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> In daftandbarny's particular case, it could be just as easily linked to his predilection for dressing as a Catholic school girl....
> >
> 
> 
> [end thread hijack  ;D ]



Hey, who left the closet door open again?!!?


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## Greymatters (15 Nov 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Hey, who left the closet door open again?!!?



I didnt even know your office had closets - now Im afraid to check!   


*Back on topic -* The command badge was an important item during the WW2 days when you had large numbers of troops and it was important to know who they belonged to.  Doesn't the fact that fewer and fewer CF members wear a command badge demonstrate that they arent considered as important as they used to be?  Especially in today's pro-opsec environment, where we are now minimizing the amount of unit identification on our uniforms?


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## McG (15 Nov 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm sorry but thats a weak argument. For the limited number of times in a year where i wear my DEUs, the need to identify what command i report to is a non-issue.


It might be about as important an issue as identifying what element you are.  We should all just happily jump back into one common CF green dress uniform regardless of army, air or sea.
 :worms:


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## Cleared Hot (15 Nov 2009)

Holy Smokes! How hard is it to put three little pins through your breast pocket because someone told you to.  I didn't even think it was a molehill let alone a mountain.  Man, you want people to take pride in something I say birthday suits all around!  Maybe that will address appearance issues of real importance like physical fitness!  Wearing medals is a bitch though.

Wow.  :


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## Pusser (15 Nov 2009)

I seem to recall that the Rhino Party once advocated burlap bags for the Army uniform, blue Speedos for the Navy and yellow zoot suits for the Air Force.  Sometimes, I think there was merit in that.

When I joined the Navy we wore green and drove steamers!  In the days of green, we wore command badges to identify our elements.  When we switched to DEU, we still wore them for quite awhile as I recall (I have pictures).  The question of why we wore them with what was now easily identifiable as a naval uniform was often a topic of discussion.  One of the reasons given was that NDHQ personnel had never worn command badges to that point and that we on the coast needed to wear them so we could tell the MARCOM folks from the NDHQ folks.  At that point we replied that if the NDHQ folks were that set on it, perhaps they should start wearing them!  It took awhile for some of the NDHQ groups, but that's eventually what happened.  

I still have my old MARCOM shield.  Someday I'll get around to putting it in a shadow box for posterity.


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## Pusser (15 Nov 2009)

I forgot to mention that the biggest thing we disliked about wearing a command badge on DEU was that there is no pocket to line it up with on a naval uniform.  Getting it at the right height, straight and centred is a right royal pain, requiring much trial and error.  When i finally get it right on a new tunic, i put tiny white stitches where the pins go so I can re-attach the badge after dry-cleaning without too much difficulty.  Works great, until some well-meaning dry cleaner removes the stitches...


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## Rheostatic (9 Dec 2009)

ballz said:
			
		

> Okay... so the command badge with the lion on it? Which one is that?


It's actually a winged sea lion _(sea-lion Or winged)_, used in heraldry to signify service in all three elements. The torch symbolizes leadership or education, and can be found in the arms of all CF schools.


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