# Changes to CIC



## dangerboy (11 Sep 2009)

CANFORGEN 160/09 CMP 069/09 101825Z SEP 09
CHANGE TO NAME AND COMPOSITION OF THE CIC RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT
UNCLASSIFIED



AS PART OF A MODERNIZATION OF THE CADET INSTRUCTOR CADRE (CIC) RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT, THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENCE HAS APPROVED A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE TO QRO 2.034(C) 


THE AMENDMENT OF THE ABOVE ARTICLE HAS REPLACED THE CIC RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT THROUGH THE CREATION OF THE CADET ORGANIZATIONS AND TRAINING SERVICES (COATS). THE PRIMARY DUTY OF THIS NEW RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT IS THE SUPERVISION, ADMINISTRATION AND TRAINING OF CADETS AND JUNIOR CANADIAN RANGERS (JCR). WITHIN THE NEW SUB-COMPONENT, THERE WILL BE NO CHANGE TO THE EXISTING BRANCH OR MOSID. SERVING MEMBERS OF THE CIC WILL AUTOMATICALLY BE TRANSFERED TO THE COATS SUB-COMPONENT AND WILL RETAIN THEIR CURRENT TERMS OF SERVICE AND CIC OCCUPATION 


ANOTHER FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IS THAT OFFICERS (OTHER THAN THOSE OF THE CIC) AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS CAN SERVE IN COATS PROVIDED THAT THEIR PRIMARY DUTY IS THE SUPERVISION, ADMINISTRATION AND TRAINING OF CADETS OR JCR. CF REGULAR FORCE AND RESERVE FORCE MEMBERS ARE ELIGIBLE TO TRANSFER TO COATS ON THE CONDITION THAT THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS CURRENTLY IN PLACE FOR SELECTION INTO THE CIC MOSID, AS SET OUT IN CFAO 49-6 ANNEX A, APPENDIX 1, AND AS AMPLIFIED IN CADET ADMINISTRATIVE TRAINING ORDER (CATO) 23-01. TRANSFERRING MEMBERS SHALL ALSO MEET THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS SET OUT IN CATO 23-04 


ADMISSION INTO, AND CONTINUED SERVICE WITHIN THE COATS SUB-COMPONENT WILL BE GOVERNED BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE THAT CURRENTLY APPLY TO THE CIC MOSID WITH RESPECT TO: 


MEDICAL STANDARDS 


RETIREMENT AGE 


FITNESS STANDARD (UNDER DEVELOPMENT), AND 


RELIABILITY AND VULNERABLE SECTOR SCREENING 


EXISTING DAODS THAT REFERRED TO THE CIC AS A RESERVE FORCE SUB-COMPONENT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AMENDED TO REFLECT THESE CHANGES. TO THIS SAME END, ADDITIONAL ORDERS, DIRECTIVES, POLICIES, AND OTHER AUTHORITATIVE DOCUMENTS AND REFERENCES SHALL LIKEWISE BE AMENDED IN DUE COURSE 


CHIEF - RESERVES AND CADETS HAS ISSUED ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER 1085-30 (D CDTS 6) DATED 2 JULY 2009 THAT PROVIDES DIRECTION ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE COATS SUB-COMPONENT UNTIL SUCH TIME AS OTHER ORDERS AND REGULATIONS CAN BE AMENDED. QR AND O 10.06 PROVIDES THE AUTHORITY FOR MEMBERS TO TRANSFER TO COATS 


SIGNED BY MGEN W. SEMIANIW, CMP


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## gwp (12 Sep 2009)

This change only affects the name of the Sub-component of the the Reserve Force, which is now the Cadet Organiztion and Training Service or COATS. 

There are no changes for members of the Cadet Instructors Branch. Terms of service and all other policies are unchanged. 

The change does provide for people from other branches of the CF RegF or PRes (Officers and NCMs) who wish to serve in support of the Cadet Organiztion on retirement or who who have been injured or ill and no longer meet the universality of service (injured in battle) to component transfer to COATS and continue to serve with dignity (until age 65). In the past these individuals who be required to release or transfer to and from the Supplementary Reserve. Futhermore this change ligitamizes the NCMs who are presently over 60 years of age who have been transfered from the Sup Res to serve the Cadet Organizations at Regional HQs

NCMs may only component transfer, there will be no enrollment of NCMs.  Instruction in the new occupation will be provided as necessary.  NCMs will maintain their branch, regimental identity. NCMs may choose to commission into the CIC occupation as is presently the case, but generally without the requirement to do BOTC but rather go direct to occupational training. 

The CIC is unchanged as a Branch of the Canadian Forces and a reserve force officer occupation equal to any other.

The CF will continue to recruit individuals to the CIC occupation. Other Branch officers who component transfer may retain their former branch identity depending upon their employment within COATS.  Some employment will require an occupational transfer.


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## Matt_Fisher (15 Sep 2009)

So for example, would this change allow a Captain serving with a PRes Army unit, i.e. Loyal Edmont Regiment, to transfer to the COATS sub-component of the Reserve Force, retain his Loyal Edmonton Regiment identity (uniform and appropriate accoutrements), although he is no longer serving with that PRes unit, continue to serve until mandatory retirement age (or voluntary release) in the COATS?

Sounds almost like a return to the Cadet Services of Canada days, whereby most of its members were militia officers seconded to the unit's affiliated cadet corps and the Cadet Services of Canada.


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## Neill McKay (15 Sep 2009)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> So for example, would this change allow a Captain serving with a PRes Army unit, i.e. Loyal Edmont Regiment, to transfer to the COATS sub-component of the Reserve Force, retain his Loyal Edmonton Regiment identity (uniform and appropriate accoutrements), although he is no longer serving with that PRes unit, continue to serve until mandatory retirement age (or voluntary release) in the COATS?



That's the idea.



> Sounds almost like a return to the Cadet Services of Canada days, whereby most of its members were militia officers seconded to the unit's affiliated cadet corps and the Cadet Services of Canada.



Maybe, but I'd offer a couple of comments on that:

The CIC is a large branch, about 7000 officers.  At that size I don't think we'll see CIC officers replaced in cadet units with officers from other occupations in huge percetages.  Also, I suspect that officers wishing to serve in cadet units will have, at some point, to remuster to CIC or see limitations on their career progression.  Just as a CIC officer would not normally be employed in the MCR of a ship, a marine engineering officer would not normally be employed as the training officer (e.g.) in a cadet corps.

There are significant numbers of officers and NCMs in the regional cadet support unit HQs and their area detachments, as well as in the Directorate of Cadets in NDHQ.  Part of the COATS concept would allow ongoing service in those environments.  As an example, there are several RMS clerks in an RCSU HQ.  Some could be Reg F members on a three-year (or whatever) posting, but there could also be the option to employ RMS clerks who had CT'd from the Reg F to COATS in some of those positions.  Examples might include a the clerk who had been injured overseas and would not meet the medical requirements for continued Reg F service, or one who found a jammy posting at the HQ and was willing to give up Reg F membership to become a serial Class B reservist in that position.

Time will tell just how it works out.  But I certainly wouldn't anticipate seeing the majority of cadet unit positions filled by non-CIC COATS members.


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## cdn031 (3 Dec 2009)

Does this strike anyone else as a formalization of what we in Ontario always jokingly refered as "5 RCR" - i.e. the COATS as a place for soldiers to go to when they no longer fit in the big machine?

In an ideal world this would be a great placement for competent officers and NCOs to still contribute after an injury, presumably suffered overseas, prevents that member from serving otherwise. I like this idea. the operative word is Competent.

But there is a dark side - that this could become a collecting point for those being pushed out for job performance reasons - the land of broken toys.  Don't be so quick to throw stones at this concept. If I was a career manager or unit commander, I would be very tempting to transfer (or encourage) a non-performer to move to the Cadet backwaters, where he/she could be a bigshot. 

My sense is that we won't see any of these folks at  the Corps level, but rather at the area, region, and NDHQ staff. 

The Cadet World is fragile enough as it is - this concerns me


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## LineJumper (17 Feb 2010)

Hmmm, this is really quite interesting. I think it's a great initiative, specifically for those members that wish to give back to the cadet movement. I've done alot of volunteering with cadets since I aged out of the organization and think this is fantastic for those few of us that never want to be an officer. (Not that officers are bad things ) It would be interesting to see in which capacity the NCO would be utilized.


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## Northalbertan (21 Feb 2010)

I  agree that it is unlikely we will see CIC NCMs at the corps level.  There are several reasons.  A lot of cadet corps are far outside any reasonable driving distance from a reg force or reserve unit.  Administratively, cadet corps are not set up to have NCMs on strength.  The only place I can see them being utilized would be at Detachment level or CSTCs where their training and expertise would have relevance.


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## catalyst (21 Feb 2010)

The NCMs will not be CIC NCMs - they have a separate mosid for GS Offr and GS NCM within COATS. It all depends on personnel requirements. These folks are a different can of fish from the regf/res unit volunteers some corps have. These are NCMs/Officers who serve in a separate sub-component of the reserve force. 

They do exist -  in BC there are several CWOs, WOs and various other NCMs on strength with cadet corps. This way they don't have to go to the SR they can component transfer to COATS.  They occupy various positions as AdminO, TrgO, SupO, etc.  They have been, and can be utilized at the corps level.   

What about an ex regF WO Supply Tech who has retired to middleofknowhwere, BC - a great way to engage his skills (if he's willing, that is).


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## Northalbertan (21 Feb 2010)

I stand corrected.  

Don't get me wrong, I am very supportive of this idea.  I think it is a great opportunity for the COATS component to be be able to take advantage of the many years of experience these people would bring to us.  The more knowledge the better.


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## Northalbertan (31 Jul 2010)

I am posting this to prove Army sailors point.
We are CTing a recently retired RF Sgt into the unit from the supp reserve.  We are fortunate to be able to take advantage of his training and experience and consider ourselves lucky he would like to help out.  He is of course very happy that he can keep his regimental affiliation.

I personally am very happy that COATS now exists so we can take advantage of individuals like this.  What a lost opportunity this may have been.

Northalbertan


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