# Elemental Change for Purple Trades - Reserves



## orca73 (29 Mar 2011)

Find this frustrating within the Reserve world.

In the Regular Force, if an army clerk (purple trade) is posted to a ship, all they have to do is wear the appropriate work dress (NCD's) but are not required to change their chosen element.  If a navy clerk is posted to an army base, they are required to wear the appropriated work dress (Combats) but again, not required to change their element.  And in both cases, that person would be placed on that Unit's establishment.

If you accept a job, which was advertised with the Navy Reserve, you are not requested to change your element but to wear the distinctive work dress.  

However, I have found over the years, that if you accept a job with the Army Reserve, which was nationally advertised, you have to accept the element transfer in order to accept the job offer.  I am proud to be Navy but I also wish to be able to work anywhere a job is offered.  Unfortunately, now I have to change my element in order to work for the next two years and keep my fingers crossed to CT to the Regular Forces as a Naval Clerk.


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## agc (29 Mar 2011)

This comes down to who foots the bill.

Regular force members are all paid out of the same pot.  Not true of all reserve positions.


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## orca73 (15 Apr 2011)

"This comes down to who foots the bill.

Regular force members are all paid out of the same pot.  Not true of all reserve positions."

Thing is, I already have both work dress uniforms.  Why bother footing the bill for the Army DEU's, when I already have the Navy DEU's and I get the replacements via points system now.  With the transfer, now they have to foot the bill for all new replacement kit.  And boy do the Army have a lot of kit.

Funny side note, I will be one of the few Army dressed individuals with the SSM on in an Infantry unit.  :rofl:


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## MikeL (15 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> Funny side note, I will be one of the few Army dressed individuals with the SSM on in an Infantry unit.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:




I'm going to assume what you meant here...

SSM as in Special Service Medal?  Bragging that you have a medal that a majority of others in that unit don't? 

Also, what do you mean Army Dressed?


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## agc (15 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> Thing is, I already have both work dress uniforms.  Why bother footing the bill for the Army DEU's, when I already have the Navy DEU's and I get the replacements via points system now.  With the transfer, now they have to foot the bill for all new replacement kit.  And boy do the Army have a lot of kit.



I was referring to who pays the salary, not for the clothes.

If you want to be on the establishment of a militia unit, they'll want you to look the same as them.


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## OldSolduer (15 Apr 2011)

You don't have to join either. Stay out.


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## kratz (15 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> You don't have to join either. Stay out.



Always a good answer to interoperability and total force yada yada... :nod:


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## OldSolduer (15 Apr 2011)

Yeah whatever. Whining and complaining because you have to change elements is good too. 

When a Ref Force infanteer retires and moves to the Reserve Force....he has to change uniform accoutrements.


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## orca73 (15 Apr 2011)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> I'm going to assume what you meant here...
> 
> SSM as in Special Service Medal?  Bragging that you have a medal that a majority of others in that unit don't?
> 
> Also, what do you mean Army Dressed?



Sorry, No I was not bragging about have a Special Service Medal.  There is a new Naval Pin coming the is an SSI (Sea Service Insigina) (I am sure I will be corrected on the right term, which I have been).  It is a Pin which indicates how much sea time one in the Navy/Naval Reserve has.  I currently have over 3 years and will 1 of maybe a couple in the Unit.  

As for who is paying, I believe LFAA is pay and I am required to wear the combats on a daily basis, which I have no problem with.  (If the CF wanted us to all look the same, why did we change in the 80's from all green uniforms to tricolor/tri-service uniforms).  I understand them wanting some uniformity however, we are a tri-service, all serving the Canadian Forces, I just happen to be clerical, proud of the element I joined.  I am willing to go where ever the CF needs to have a clerk, be land, sea or air.  I am not "whining" about changing the Element.  I think it is a very legitimate question.


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## kratz (15 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Yeah whatever. Whining and complaining because you have to change elements is good too.
> 
> When a Ref Force infanteer retires and moves to the Reserve Force....he has to change uniform accoutrements.



...and when a sailor changes hulls, he must change those same items. Reg or PRes. Hard Sea or Support.

The OP's question is why does "purple" trade have to change uniforms in today's CF? If the PRes is working toward acting as close to the RegF as possible, this is a question worth looking at instead of writting off as whining.


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## Biohazardxj (17 Apr 2011)

It is rather silly.  Seeing how a Reg force purple trade does not change elements when working for the reserves.  Me as example, I am an Airforce clerk working at a militia unit, also our RSS Bin rat is Airforce.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

ARAF, NavRes and Reserve. All hire their own staff (less those Reg Force staff they have --- who they don't pay; the Reg F does).

You want them to hire you B Class into their Unit - as a member of that Unit - and pay you, then wearing 'their' uniform of their enviornment is not so much to ask. After all, these are ResF units we are speaking of, so the members they are hiring - unlike those of us in purple uniforms of the Reg Force - are *not* subject to postings (ie: permanent moves) to another enviornment.

Quite simply, the fact that you would like to up and leave that ResF Unit in a couple years to CT to the RegF or NavRes as a "naval DEU wearing clerk" has, and should have, NO bearing on what uniform their Unit personnel wear. They hire you, they fire you, they pay you --- you wear their uniform. 

That would be like working at Burger King, taking a new job at McDonald's and asking to still wear you Burger King uniform while working at McDo`s because it is your actual intent to return to Burger King as a fries-up guy in two years. 

PS: Have you even mentioned to this Res unit that you actually intend on leaving them in a couple years?


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> It is rather silly.  Seeing how a Reg force purple trade does not change elements when working for the reserves.  Me as example, I am an Airforce clerk working at a militia unit, also our RSS Bin rat is Airforce.



You should think long and hard about the above. You do many things they don`t. Being posted extra-enviornmentally is one of them.

No, it`s not silly. See the Burger King vs McDonald`s tidbit. Who is writing the cheque is never silly.


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## OldSolduer (17 Apr 2011)

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> It is rather silly.  Seeing how a Reg force purple trade does not change elements when working for the reserves.  Me as example, I am an Airforce clerk working at a militia unit, also our RSS Bin rat is Airforce.



No its not silly. Reg Force, as stated, are liable to be posted etc. When you come onto the strength of a Reserve Unit as a Class A Reservist, you are expected to change accoutrements and if required your DEU.

If you don't like that....or think its silly...or vehemently disagree, don't join the unit.


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## ModlrMike (17 Apr 2011)

It reads as if the OP is talking about Class B. If that's the case, why should he have to change uniform? After all, the expectation is that he'll revert to Class A at his parent unit. However, if he's talking Class A... then I agree with Jim, the change is warranted. Perhaps a little clarity on what class of service, what kind of job/tasking we're talking about is in order.


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

The little problem I see with this comparison, if we take it literally, BK and MD's are to separate competeting companies.  The CF is one large company with multiple branches.  I could also state, if a specific unit does not wish an "outside" element to apply for their advertised job, then it should be stated in the advertisement only this element should apply.  When the Canadian Forces wants the primary reserve to be treated as the regular force, the demand is for us to step up and meet the expectation. Yet, on another issue, we are informed to be quiet and accept whatever is offered? This is not a true one force, or "Total Force" concept.

I understand  a  Unit is proud of their uniform and heritage, why can't I be proud of mine?   Unfortunately,  with the cutbacks there are not a lot of Naval Reserve employment opportunities this year.  That is one reason for the Naval CT going in.   While I want to continue to be employed as a clerk in the CF, I had to look for employment else where, within the CF.   Thus I  found myself  applying  for  positions with various  different Units, being Army, Navy or Air. The one I eventually accepted had been vacant for over two years. The CoC clearly knows this full-time position is funded as two year Class B/A position and that I will move on if not extended. During the interview process, I clearly stated my preference to retain my Naval Uniform, and long story short, I was hired but informed I would have to switch. 

This all being said, if it is the uniform or the job, obviously, in order to keep my job, I will change the uniform, wasting more government  (AKA public taxpayer)  money as I will have to be fully re kitted.  It is simply a question I have wondered about over the years and wanted to hear other peoples opinions and hopefully, maybe change some peoples minds.   I am willing to move, be posted, take a position wherever needed more often than those infamous RegF unlimited liability positions, but because I hold a primary reserve position policies allow that I may be treated less.


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## OldSolduer (17 Apr 2011)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> It reads as if the OP is talking about Class B. If that's the case, why should he have to change uniform? After all, the expectation is that he'll revert to Class A at his parent unit. However, if he's talking Class A... then I agree with Jim, the change is warranted. Perhaps a little clarity on what class of service, what kind of job/tasking we're talking about is in order.



One thing that picks my....is the Reg Force that retires after 20 -25 years and immediately feels entitled to Class B employment. Just saying and sorry for the tangent.


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> One thing that picks my....is the Reg Force that retires after 20 -25 years and immediately feels entitled to Class B employment. Just saying and sorry for the tangent.



I guess we could end up taking this one step further by say, now we know why there is not a lot of Class B jobs for reservists but truefully this is not the case for me.  I think it is more the hard sea trades that might be effected by the transfers.


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## George Wallace (17 Apr 2011)

I would like to ask the question as to whom is the SOU being billed for your wages.  If it is the Primary Reserves, and not the Naval Reserve, then I would say you are likely to be compelled to wear a LAND uniform.   If you were being paid out of the Naval Reserve budget, then I could understand you keeping a Naval DEU and other uniforms.  In the end, I would say that it is more or less dictated by whom is paying you as to what uniform you'll wear, when dealing with the Reserves.  If you were Regular Force and posted to a Primary Reserve unit, it would be a moot point, and you would not have this "identity" problem.


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## George Wallace (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> I guess we could end up taking this one step further by say, now we know why there is not a lot of Class B jobs for reservists but truefully this is not the case for me.  I think it is more the hard sea trades that might be effected by the transfers.



Get real.  If a "hard sea" Trade was to take a callout at a Land unit, it would have to include a CT.  There are no "hard sea" Trades in an Reserve Infantry unit.

Your whole understanding of the differences between  the Regular Force and the Reserves (Air, Land and Sea) seems to be lacking.  The Regular Force is one thing, but the Reserves are three totally different things altogether.


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## OldSolduer (17 Apr 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Get real.  If a "hard sea" Trade was to take a callout at a Land unit, it would have to include a CT.  There are no "hard sea" Trades in an Reserve Infantry unit.
> 
> Your whole understanding of the differences between  the Regular Force and the Reserves (Air, Land and Sea) seems to be lacking.  The Regular Force is one thing, but the Reserves are three totally different things altogether.



And if you toss in the Rangers and Coats.....five.


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I would like to ask the question as to whom is the SOU being billed for your wages.  If it is the Primary Reserves, and not the Naval Reserve, then I would say you are likely to be compelled to wear a LAND uniform.   If you were being paid out of the Naval Reserve budget, then I could understand you keeping a Naval DEU and other uniforms.  In the end, I would say that it is more or less dictated by whom is paying you as to what uniform you'll wear, when dealing with the Reserves.  If you were Regular Force and posted to a Primary Reserve unit, it would be a moot point, and you would not have this "identity" problem.



I will be posted to the LFAA PRL list for the duration of the contract.  As I mentioned, I don't mind wearing the daily work dress, in this case combats, as this is the uniform of the day.  But to require a complete elemental change, what happened to the "total forces" tri-service concept.  If you are a reservist, it simply does not apply?  Curiousity.


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## OldSolduer (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> I will be posted to the LFAA PRL list for the duration of the contract.  As I mentioned, I don't mind wearing the daily work dress, in this case combats, as this is the uniform of the day.  But to require a complete elemental change, what happened to the "total forces" tri-service concept.  If you are a reservist, it simply does not apply?  Curiousity.



Are you Reg Force or Reserve?


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## kratz (17 Apr 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I would like to ask the question as to whom is the SOU being billed for your wages.  *If it is the Primary Reserves* , and not the Naval Reserve, then I would say you are likely to be compelled to wear a LAND uniform.



Not discounting your post, but see your highlighted comment, you are calling the Naval Reserve less than the Primary Reserve.  >
Thank you for that....respect?


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Get real.  If a "hard sea" Trade was to take a callout at a Land unit, it would have to include a CT.  There are no "hard sea" Trades in an Reserve Infantry unit.
> 
> Your whole understanding of the differences between  the Regular Force and the Reserves (Air, Land and Sea) seems to be lacking.  The Regular Force is one thing, but the Reserves are three totally different things altogether.



I think I was misunderstood.  What I was trying to say is, a Naval Reg Force member, for argument sack, who is hard sea trade decides to retire and then join a Naval Reserve Unit and takes up a Class B hard sea position, is he/she now not taking a potential position away from an or ginally hired Naval Reservist.  I know that a hard sea trade person would not necessarily be looking at the army jobs unless they are looking at starting a new career.


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Are you Reg Force or Reserve?



Reserve


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## OldSolduer (17 Apr 2011)

Reserves aren't "posted" per se.

You sign a contract and agree to abide by its terms. Why not ask LFAA if you can retain the Naval DEU?


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Reserves aren't "posted" per se.
> 
> You sign a contract and agree to abide by its terms. Why not ask LFAA if you can retain the Naval DEU?



I am posted for the two year term with a full move occuring in 3 months time.  Yes, I do have to sign a Statement of Understanding but it does not state any  where in an SOU what uniform I am to wear.  I will be paid as a Cpl (equivanlent of LS), get medical and dental, and 2 days for every 30 completed for Annual Leave.  The transfer of units has not taken place and I am obviously in no big rush to get it done.

As for the Uniform, I mentioned my concerns during the interview process with the OC and CC.  From what I understand, the CC took the matter up to the CO who wishes me to wear green.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> The little problem I see with this comparison, if we take it literally, BK and MD's are to separate competeting companies.  The CF is one large company with multiple branches.



Yet, they are all fast food joints. Now, answer the other question that I posed of you if you are so insistant that "the NavRes, the ARAF and the Army Reserves are all one big happy family" being that the pay cheque is not generating from the same payor ...

Did you tell the army unit that you wish to join that you plan on leaving them for the NavRes in two years and that's why you want to retain that Naval uniform? 

If not, why not? One big happy family after all aren't they?

No need to answer; it's a rhetorical question because everyone knows the McDo's wouldn't then hire you either.  As all the entities - whether in 'direct' competetion or not want to put their own limited funding towards training and staffing pers that actually may plan on putting something back into that entity rather than their being used as one man's mere stepping stone.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

LFAA PRL = Land Force Atlantic Area Primary Reserve List. (IE: Army --- we'll get that out too, just to make sure that folks understand that "Land" = Army much like "Maritime" = Navy).

Not a shad.

Good call by the CO I'd say.


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## OldSolduer (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> I am posted for the two year term with a full move occuring in 3 months time.  Yes, I do have to sign a Statement of Understanding but it does not state any  where in an SOU what uniform I am to wear.  I will be paid as a Cpl (equivanlent of LS), get medical and dental, and 2 days for every 30 completed for Annual Leave.  The transfer of units has not taken place and I am obviously in no big rush to get it done.
> 
> As for the Uniform, I mentioned my concerns during the interview process with the OC and CC.  From what I understand, the CC took the matter up to the CO who *wishes* me to wear green.



Wishes? No....will order you....


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## George Wallace (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> I think I was misunderstood.  What I was trying to say is, a Naval Reg Force member, for argument sack, who is hard sea trade decides to retire and then join a Naval Reserve Unit and takes up a Class B hard sea position, is he/she now not taking a potential position away from an or ginally hired Naval Reservist.  I know that a hard sea trade person would not necessarily be looking at the army jobs unless they are looking at starting a new career.



No they are not taking anything away from a Reservist, as they are now a Reservist themselves.  Class B posns are put out to competition.  If a former Service Member, now a Reservist, beats out another Reservist for a posn, they are not putting anyone out of a job as you insinuate.  It doesn't matter if it is Land, Sea or Air.  It is one Reservist competing against another Reservist.


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Did you tell the army unit that you wish to join that you plan on leaving them for the NavRes in two years and that's why you want to retain that Naval uniform?



I think it is well understood that, when the contract is over in two years time and I am not rehired, I will return to a Naval Reserve Unit and continue looking for employment.  This may be employment within the Naval Reserves, this may be employment I find within the REO advertisements.  Just because I accepted this two year contract, does not mean I will stay permanently with this Unit.  To take this one step further, over the past 14 years I have been employed with 6 different units.  Even though I am currently on HMCS Queen Charlotte's establishment, where I was employed for a three contract, I do not think of it as my home unit.  HMCS Brunswicker will always be the unit I will return to if I cannot find Class B employment within the CF.

Therefore, I was hired with the knowledge that I may not be staying after the two year contract is over.  I was also hired because of my skills, knowledge and expierence.  Not because of the Uniform I wear.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

kratz said:
			
		

> Not discounting your post, but see your highlighted comment, you are calling the Naval Reserve less than the Primary Reserve.  >
> Thank you for that....respect?



Reading in context, it's pretty obvious to me that george is asking (because of the SOU) whether this is Primary Reserve (as in PRL) or NavRes paycheque being issued to him.

It's got zilch to do with lack of respect --- but perhaps with a lack of understanding what another enviornment calls their reserve component.


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## kratz (17 Apr 2011)

Actually retired RegF pers who transferred to the SHR/SRR do take jobs away from PRes pers. Those retired pers do not have a trade that matches the allotment in NavRes, but the skills they hold are in demand. So those pers are "accommodated".

WRT to the OP's question. If this army unit has been short qualified clerk for over a year and the army can not fill the position, to the point it goes out to REO wide competition, why would a unit demand a change of uniform for those two years? It's not like the person accepting the job is trying to join the unit. They are only there do do a job and will move on to the next job offer afterward.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> I think it is well understood that, when the contract is over in two years time and I am not rehired, I will return to a Naval Reserve Unit and continue looking for employment.  This may be employment within the Naval Reserves, this may be employment I find within the REO advertisements.  Just because I accepted this two year contract, does not mean I will stay permanently with this Unit.  To take this one step further, over the past 14 years I have been employed with 6 different units.  Even though I am currently on HMCS Queen Charlotte's establishment, where I was employed for a three contract, I do not think of it as my home unit.  HMCS Brunswicker will always be the unit I will return to if I cannot find Class B employment within the CF.
> 
> Therefore, I was hired with the knowledge that I may not be staying after the two year contract is over.  I was also hired because of my skills, knowledge and expierence.  Not because of the Uniform I wear.



Which is it? You first stated earlier that your intent was to tx to a NavRes unit as a clerk in two years. Now you are stating that you may do that "if not rehired". <--- All the MORE reason for the CO to want you in his Unit's uniform if he's writing your cheque. 

So, reading the whole of above, you may also have no intent of living up to the 2 year contract you signed either --- lovely that. 

Ahhh, to be posted back in Charlottetown right now ... I know a few of them read here though.

 :facepalm:


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

kratz said:
			
		

> WRT to the OP's question. If this army unit has been short qualified clerk for over a year and the army can not fill the position, to the point it goes out to REO wide competition, why would a unit demand a change of uniform for those two years? It's not like the person accepting the job is trying to join the unit. They are only there do do a job and will move on to the next job offer afterward.



I think Kratz just summed this up perfectly for me.  I have seen this situation take place a few times.  Were a sailor will be employed for a period of time with another unit (army) and then return to their original unit.  It is simply filling in a required skill set that a unit needs.  In my case, the requirement for a full time clerk.


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Which is it? You first stated earlier that your intent was to tx to a NavRes unit as a clerk in two years. Now you are stating that you may do that "if not rehired". <--- All the MORE reason for the CO to want you in his Unit's uniform if he's writing your cheque.
> 
> So, reading the whole of above, you may also have no intent of living up to the 2 year contract you signed either --- lovely that.
> 
> ...



There is no guarantee that the contract will be extended past the two year mark (31 Mar 13).  The Unit may choose to not fill the position again, they may want to hire someone else, I don't know what will happen in two years time.  If the Unit wishes to continue to employ me as a Class B clerk, I will stay.  If there is no Class B employment, I will look for employment else where, preferably back within the Naval Reserve world.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

kratz said:
			
		

> Actually retired RegF pers who transferred to the SHR/SRR do take jobs away from PRes pers. Those retired pers do not have a trade that matches the allotment in NavRes, but the skills they hold are in demand. So those pers are "accommodated".
> 
> WRT to the OP's question. If this army unit has been short qualified clerk for over a year and the army can not fill the position, to the point it goes out to REO wide competition, why would a unit demand a change of uniform for those two years? It's not like the person accepting the job is trying to join the unit. They are only there do do a job and will move on to the next job offer afterward.





			
				kratz said:
			
		

> Actually retired RegF pers who transferred to the SHR/SRR do take jobs away from PRes pers. Those retired pers do not have a trade that matches the allotment in NavRes, but the skills they hold are in demand. So those pers are "accommodated".
> 
> WRT to the OP's question. If this army unit has been short qualified clerk for over a year and the army can not fill the position, to the point it goes out to REO wide competition, why would a unit demand a change of uniform for those two years? It's not like the person accepting the job is trying to join the unit. They are only there do do a job and will move on to the next job offer afterward.



Because they would be the one's writing his paycheque. Plain and simple. And, dude obviously needs the job --- else he wouldn't be taking it. The person joining the Unit is trying to get an f'n job there isn't he?

Damn, I'd wear a french maids uniform if it meant a steady paycheque.

What's the actual issue here because I see *NONE*; just a bunch of whining.

The Unit has their Army Clerk and is going to write that cheque out ... and the dude has his job. 

If, as he keeps insisting, the uniform has fuck all to do with it, then just change it already, build a freakin' bridge and get over it. Funny that the guy saying that his uniform colour makes no difference is the only one whining when he's got what he wanted too --- he just isn't getting the uniform colour he wants. So, I guess the uniform colour really does make a difference then eh?


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> I think Kratz just summed this up perfectly for me.  I have seen this situation take place a few times.  Were a sailor will be employed for a period of time with another unit (army) and then return to their original unit.  It is simply filling in a required skill set that a unit needs.  In my case, the requirement for a full time clerk.



You are going on the LFAA PRL. What part of "LF" do you not understand??


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## orca73 (17 Apr 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> What's the actual issue here because I see *NONE*; just a bunch of whining.



I honestly don't think I am whining.  I thought it was a legitmate question, open for debate and perhaps to get some better insight then "just wear the army uniform because I say so".  

Yes the job is more important then the Uniform because I like working with the CF and enjoy facing new challenges.  Therefore, when the time finally comes, I will change my element for the two years and then will apply to return to the element I choose to join in the first place.


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## kratz (17 Apr 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Because they would be the one's writing his paycheque. Plain and simple. And, dude obviously needs the job --- else he wouldn't be taking it. The person joining the Unit is trying to get an f'n job there isn't he?
> 
> Damn, I'd wear a french maids uniform if it meant a steady paycheque.
> 
> ...



Even if  I could afford Vern's French Main uniform rates (bad joke)  ;D

I did not know my post rated a double post to be rebutted.


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## armyvern (17 Apr 2011)

PM me for my rates Kratz ...

I may have a sale going on right now; or not.  8)


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## OldSolduer (18 Apr 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Damn, I'd wear a french maids uniform if it meant a steady paycheque.



you would?  >


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## Danjanou (18 Apr 2011)

orca73 said:
			
		

> "Funny side note, I will be one of the few Army dressed individuals with the SSM on in an Infantry unit.  :rofl:



Not really. You'd be surprised at who managed to get this over the 4 plus decades we were in Europe, especially in LFAA, where a lot of former regs end up joining their "home town" reserve units after a career in the regs. Also I would say the PLF in Halifax may have a few both for the above reason and the fact that through most of the 1980's they were tasked with providing the 4CMBG brigade Def Pla and sent troops over a regular basis year after year, not hard to rack up the 180 days.

Besides LFAA has a long tradition of weird and wonderful bling. I remember a Snr NCO in the 1st Bn Nova Scotia Highlanders who had Dolphins on his DEUs. Joined the Navy as a young un, spent time on the O boats and after he came home was bored and joined the local reserve unit and worked his way up. 

As for the rest of this thread, meh too early on a Monday to comment.


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## Aerobicrunner (18 Apr 2011)

Para 9 of the Dress Manual states the following:

Ref:  A-AD-265-000/AG-001

CHAPTER 2
POLICY AND APPEARANCE
SECTION 1
DRESS POLICY
AUTHORIZED UNIFORMS


9. CF members are allocated environmental identity and uniformed according to the functional
branch to which they belong, with each branch manned by individuals from one or more
environments. In addition, Reserve members of a branch identified with more than one environment are allocated an identity on initial enrolment which:

a. for the Primary Reserve, matches that of their unit, i.e. navy in the Naval Reserve;
army in the Militia; air force in the Air Reserve; and army in the Communication
Reserve, unless the initial unit’s assignment is in the functional navy or air
force; and

b. for direct entry Supplementary Reservists, matches that of their initial assignment or is
in accordance with instructions by the Branch Adviser.

*10. Once assigned, environmental identity is retained for a career. Thus, while the majority of members in environmental commands and units are uniformed alike, some differ, reflecting the unified nature of the CF.*

Our Reserve Brigade has several individuals in it who are Air Force and Navy.  Their dress of the day is CADPAT with the name tag identifier, rank and tshirt annotating their environment.  In celebration of the Navy Anniversary, the Bde Comd auth Naval Work Dress to be worn as Dress of the Day.


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## Rheostatic (18 Apr 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> --- Quote from: orca73 on 15 April 2011, 20:41:00 ---"Funny side note, I will be one of the few Army dressed individuals with the SSM on in an Infantry unit.  :rofl:
> 
> --- End quote ---
> 
> Not really. You'd be surprised at who managed to get this over the 4 plus decades we were in Europe, especially in LFAA, where a lot of former regs end up joining their "home town" reserve units after a career in the regs. Also I would say the PLF in Halifax may have a few both for the above reason and the fact that through most of the 1980's they were tasked with providing the 4CMBG brigade Def Pla and sent troops over a regular basis year after year, not hard to rack up the 180 days.


I think she meant SSI, not SSM.


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## Danjanou (18 Apr 2011)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> I think he meant SSI, not SSM.



Seen, however as I said LFAA has a long histor of weird bling on DEUs


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## armyvern (18 Apr 2011)

Aerobicrunner said:
			
		

> Para 9 of the Dress Manual states the following:
> 
> Ref:  A-AD-265-000/AG-001
> 
> ...



This guy is actually transferring to the PRL (ie: Army); he will no longer be on the NavRes (Navy). Nor is he simply "being posted short-term & non-permanently with a bungee cord attached by the NavRes to pull him back at the end of his contract" as he is not RegF.  He is not going to be a "NavRes owned guy temporarily employed at a Land Force Unit" which then would equal wearing a Navy Uniform in an Army Unit, but not in this case. 

He is actually switching enviornments. Happens ALL the time --- even in the RegF. I was one; trade never changed but I went from blue to green. Also happens with re-musters from the infantry who wear Army uniforms and then switch to a purple trade --- they do NOT, necessarily, keep their Army uniforms and many are required to change them out; _exactly_ based on manning lists.


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## daftandbarmy (18 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Yeah whatever. Whining and complaining because you have to change elements is good too.
> 
> When a Ref Force infanteer retires and moves to the Reserve Force....he has to change uniform accoutrements.



And if he or she is really lucky, they get to don a kilt!  iper:


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## OldSolduer (18 Apr 2011)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> And if he or she is really lucky, they get to don a kilt!  iper:




Riigghhhhht.......


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## kratz (18 Apr 2011)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> And if he or *she* is really lucky, they get to don a kilt!  iper:



*ouch* Out of the navy jokes and jumping into the kilt jokes. 

Where are those French Maid uniforms issued?  ;D


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## George Wallace (18 Apr 2011)

kratz said:
			
		

> *ouch* Out of the navy jokes and jumping into the kilt jokes.
> 
> Where are those French Maid uniforms issued?  ;D



Aren't French Maid uniforms black and white................sort of 'Salt and Pepper'?     >


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## Danjanou (18 Apr 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Riigghhhhht.......



I dunno Jim, you could always get Kilted mess kit.  8)


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## OldSolduer (18 Apr 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I dunno Jim, you could always get Kilted mess kit.  8)



I'll pass thanks. I'll stick with what I have.


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## orca73 (18 Apr 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> This guy is actually transferring to the PRL (ie: Army); he will no longer be on the NavRes (Navy). Nor is he simply "being posted short-term & non-permanently with a bungee cord attached by the NavRes to pull him back at the end of his contract" as he is not RegF.  He is not going to be a "NavRes owned guy temporarily employed at a Land Force Unit" which then would equal wearing a Navy Uniform in an Army Unit, but not in this case.
> 
> He is actually switching environments. Happens ALL the time --- even in the RegF. I was one; trade never changed but I went from blue to green. Also happens with re-musters from the infantry who wear Army uniforms and then switch to a purple trade --- they do NOT, necessarily, keep their Army uniforms and many are required to change them out; _exactly_ based on manning lists.



I was really happy to see the posting by Aerobicrunner and got my hopes up but after a lunch time chat with the CC,  I am actually being transferred to the Unit's establishment and that is why the CO has "ordered" the change of uniform.  I might have had a chance if I had been put on LFAA's PRL list instead, as these larger list may contain any of the 3 elements.  I know for sure, if you transfer to MARCOM PRL (Naval Reserve Listing for those individuals who do not fall into the normal NR positions) are not required to change their element.  

In the end I think ArmyVen is right and I will have to wear the Green DEU once the transfer eventually goes through.  I was really hoping there was another answer.  I will bring up the Reference made by Aerobicrunner and see what the Unit says.  :'(

On a tiny side not, I am not a he but actually a she.


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## orca73 (18 Apr 2011)

kratz said:
			
		

> *ouch* Out of the navy jokes and jumping into the kilt jokes.
> 
> Where are those French Maid uniforms issued?  ;D



This thread sounds like I should be posting:

ArmyVern - I'll bring the chaps if you bring the French Maid uniform

kratz - You had better look good in a kilt


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