# Enhanced Reliability Check (ERC) - Merged



## geofftheref

For those applicants like myself who have not spent the last 10 years living in Canada, we have to go through the Security Clearance Pre-assessment.  The CFRC is telling me 6-18 months to get this, does anyone have any first hand experience of this ?


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## humint

CSIS will do this, as with all sec.checks. They will likely talk to a few people/friends, may be relatives, the embassy, criminal records, travel history, etc., there own files, etc. In Canada, it only takes a few weeks.

It takes a long time because of the backlog and the fact that you are overseas. Almost every fed dept is getting a sec.check done, even for the lowest positions, so there are a lot of people in front of you.

There are lots of article on-line about CSIS and sec.checks, profiling, etc.

Do a quick search of the following online papers and you‘ll come up with plenty: Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, and The National Post.

You may also want to check the CSIS website for anything on sec.checks, etc. Although, what they say there will be corporate.


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## Illucigen

depends on your clearance needs. If you are to be an officer, or in sigs, for example, youll need a higher clearance than just enhanced reliability (in any case Im sure there are senior ncm‘s out there who have high clearances as well).

The standard clearance for an officer is Secret, Top Secret for MARS people. This is only done after you join and after you clear an enhanced reliability, so... I wouldnt be surprised if they wanted to check first, before finding out your a crook in britain


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## Ralph

I was reading up on BOTP on the CFLRS site and it says the officer cadets go through another security check and more medical testing once course starts. So it‘s still possible to fail out after having passed the first round of tests and after I‘ve quit my job and moved across the country? What exactly do they do for the security clearance and the medical stuff at St-Jean?
Cheers,
Ralph.


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## ProPatria05

I‘m not 100% sure on this, but...

I believe the security bit is simply getting your official security clearance. You are actually assigned a level e.g. confidential, secret, top secret, etc. This is different from the security check the Recruiting Centre does. I recently went through this with my Reserve Unit - I have a minor criminal offense on my record and there was no issue.

As for the medical, I noticed on the same site you‘re referring to that they mentioned eye and dental exams. I don‘t imagine there would be any issues with this if there wasn‘t one at the Recruiting Centre.


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## Ian

Hey,

The security checks they are reffering to are probably a few periods at St-Jean where they have you fill out those papers again. They also get some more information at that time so they can make your ID cards and Dog Tags. 

The only medical things they did at St-Jean were bloodwork for the vaccinations and an eye exam for a free pair of ugly eyeglasses, as well as a bunch of dental examinations.

I don‘t think you have anything to worry about once you show up at St-Jean apart from passing your course.


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## Illucigen

When you going through ST Jean?


The basic security clearance required for officers is SECRET (most trades), TOP SECRET (select trades, such as MARS).

At the recruiting centre, all the did was do a CPIC on you and maybe call a few references. This gave you an enhanced reliability, which is significantly lower than a Secret clearance.

You can go to the CSIS website and look up clearances for what they will be looking for.

It will be a period of the course where you fill out the forms all over again (even if you filled em out before coming on course) and take your fingerprints (unless you already have a clearance with the Govn‘t.) 

As for medicals, you‘ll only see a nurse for vaccinations,unless of course you get sick or something.

Dental exams are done for EVERYONE, and Eye exams for anyone who has glasses.


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## Gunnar

Pulled from the site:

There are three levels of security clearance as defined by the GSP: Confidential (Level I), Secret (Level II) and Top Secret (Level III). The level of security clearance required is determined by the need for access to classified information or assets in the performance of duties associated with an individual’s employment. 

Level I and II security clearance requests, which are conducted electronically, require checks in CSIS data banks. Most result in a recommendation to grant the clearance being made to the Departmental or Agency Security Officer (DSO/ASO). Further enquiries including an interview with the subject or a full field investigation may be required at times, if the process reveals questionable information. A full field investigation is required for all Level III security clearances. 

A field investigation includes CSIS records checks, the interview of friends, neighbours and employers, local police checks and possibly an interview of the applicant. During the course of the enquiries, every effort is made to explain the purpose of the questions being posed and participation in the interviews is voluntary.


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## Illucigen

Top Secret can be a bitch, and can take upwards of a year. Several of the MARS Ocdts here still are waiting on theirs.


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## Arty

Hello to ALL,

I was wondering if anyone can tell me just how long does it take to obtain security clearance?

Since I was not born in Canada, and came here in 1998, so I do not meet the 5 years mininum residency requirement.  As a result, after my CFAT and interview with my unit, my file was sent to CSIS in October 2002 and I have not heard anything yet.  They say 6-18 months, but is it really that long?  :rocket:


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## Caz

Wow, I wish I could help you out with that.

I could see CSIS taking that long.  My advice would be to keep contact open with your CFRC contact, and maybe they can see what‘s going on with your file.

Bureaucrats have a habit of forgetting things, unless they are periodically reminded   

Good luck!


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## geofftheref

I am in the same position, the CSIS has had my file since April this year and I‘m not expecting much movement for 6-18 months.  I know someone who works for the CSIS, and I‘m told the process is not long (3-4 weeks) but the backlog of applications is.  Considering It took me 12 months to get to the point where my file was sent to the CSIS I‘m guessing it could be 3 years before I get the chance to join.  Could be a record ?!


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## sm0ke

does credit history effect your application at all?


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## Caz

A credit check is run as part of your enhanced reliability clearance.  If you have horrible credit, and a history of bankruptcy, or skipping town...  it can affect your application.


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## McInnes

You should have recieved a sheet of paper with your app. that has questions on it. Its to help you prepare for your interview. Take the time to look over the questions and write down answers.
Other than that, they dont really tell you what they are looking for. If you are reserve, its always a good idea to go to your local unit and talk to a recruiter, and get a referal form. I was told by my recruiter that if you have a referal, and you dont go into a killing rage with your interviewer, you‘ll do fine.


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## EricR

Just wondering how parking tickets effect your security check if they are unpaid due to being out of work for so long?  I was divorced 3 years ago and lived out of my car for 4-5 months and aquired a few tix as well as infractions wich i have not been able to pay due to being out of work on and off for the last 3 years. times are hard, and part of my joining is to get back on track in life.  I have since had my license suspended untill fines are paid is this going to effect me getting in etc...
God i hope not.  This is to important.
thanks
eric


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## Bert

I‘ll take a crack at this.

The security check looks at your history and determines whether you are a relavtively stable person who can be trusted with important information and government assets.  Using criteria and info they find from your past and present, they make a determination and clear you for a certain security level. 

Simple and small fines are not important but big wopping fines that may affect your employment in the Forces (like having to get a second job to make ends meet and the issues it may cause to your personal and working life, stress placed on you because of the fine, that sorta thing) will be a problem.  

Definitely, having unpaid fines and the temporary loss of your drivers license will affect your process.  I was told in my interview that all debts like fines had to be dealth with prior to getting and accepting the job offer.  Having the license is important since you may be driving military vehicles.  This may be most important.

I‘d say pay the fines and get your license back.  
Once this is done, you should be OK.  Definitely talk to your local Recruiter to get real information about your situation.


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## Etown

I can only speak for my personal experience, but my application is on hold due to an error on my credit report. Basically it shows an unpaid Mastercard bill  from about six years ago. It turns out that it was a reporting error (confirmed by Mastercard), but I still need to have it cleared up before my application can continue. My advice is get those bills paid asap. 

Bert - you don‘t need a civilian drivers license to drive military vehicles. My sister drove for her engineer sqn for a couple years before she got her civilian license.


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## chriscalow

what about things like vagrancy and drinking in public?  theft?  i know a guy who broke into a car a few years ago, he got alternate measures or something, but he is afraid to apply.  I told him to just come with me and talk to the recruiter but he doesnt want them to hear about it untill he sees what kind of effect it will have on him.


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## bradley

As of now I am a landed immigrant with permanent resident‘s status. I have been here two years and in a year I will apply for my citizenship. After speaking to many recruitment officers, I have heard different opinions as far as a how long one must have spent in the country to join the forces.

-What I want to find out is some opinions on whether I will be able to make it in as a Citizen living here for 3 years or whether I would have to wait longer. 

-My grandfather was born a Canadian Citizen, would this help me at all if I had a problem with time or security?

-I was born in Rep. of South Africa and would like to know if this could be a country of security concern.

I would be really thankful for any help anyone can provide.


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## dalredane

my ex g/f was from South Africa and she only lived here for 3 years and she joined.  Reserves mind you.


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## Sh0rtbUs

kinda odd that more than 1 person at CFRC has told you diferent things. I think it depends on the person, and from what dalredane said..SA isnt a country of security concern. 

I dont think Reserves and Regular forces recruitment standards would be different..


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## portcullisguy

Shortbus, no offence bud, but how would you know if RSA was a country of security concern or not?

RSA went through a lengthy period where they were barred from the Commonwealth due to humanitarian concerns (Apartheid).  After political changes, they have undergone major internal changes and the country‘s urban centres are some of the most violent in the industrialized world.

And while the RSA may not be a hotbed of international terrorism, for security clearances a lot depends on the availability and accessibility of criminal and intelligence information and how much of that information canbe shared with our own authorities.

Some countries do not share information, and for that reason security checks will take much longer, or cannot be completed at all.


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## Sh0rtbUs

> Originally posted by Sh0rtbUs:
> [qb]  from what dalredane said..SA isnt a country of security concern.
> [/qb]


I never gave facts and claimed that they were true or not...I simply relayed what dalredane said. I dont see what it was that i said that was wrong..


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## bradley

Well, its not so much the apartheid thing, it is more to do with whats been going on since 911 that seems to be a concern. But if its more of an issue of sharing information it shouldn‘t be too much of a problem as there is enough of an infrastructure to do this, if anything it‘ll just take a bit of time. 

Thanks for the comments; if anyone has any more opinions I'll appreciate them.


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## Ender57

Is it normal for the background check to be done first if CFRC knows about a criminal record?

If so how long will it take to get back? I‘m asking because CFRC decided to my background check before anything else and it has been out for nearly 2 months now and I am just wondering what is happening with it.


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## yot

agree, for myself, I passed all tests on Jan 2004, and I called them, they just sended my secrity check papers to ON. And they said it may take around 6 mon to 18 mon for that part. However, I know that some of my friends just took around 3 weeks. But keep phoning them to find out what is ur status.


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## Greywolf

It can take a while for the check to be done if you got a criminal record.  I‘ve heard even for some people who don‘t have a record, it still takes months.


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## GrahamD

Actually, they send your finger prints to CSIS.

They are then sent a hard copy of your criminal record and depending on the seriousness of your offence they will either accept a verbal explaination, or put you through a process to determine wether or not to grant you Enhanced Reliability Status.

Receiving your finger prints can take from a relatively short time, to a really long time depending. I was informed by the Captain reviewing my file that he could expediate the process "if he so choose to do so". In the end he did, but I had a weapons restriction still in effect at the time, and my file was closed because you need to be 6 months free of ANY obligation to the judicial system.

 Anyway, back to the present, I have been through the process to determine my Enhanced Reliability Status, and I can tell you that if they find your criminal record to be sufficiently serious, they will make you go through the process too.

You will be asked to retrive a number of documents including: All legal documentation in regards to your conviction, letters from your parole/probation officer/s, letter from your cousellors detailing nature of treatment your progress etc., additional letters of reference from your previous employers over the last 5 years, and a letter from you detailing every nuance of the incident in question, why you did what you did, and what you learned from it.
They then convene a board to either grant you "ERS" or deny it to you.  At this stage your file will be scrutinised by a senior officer, in my case a Lieutenant-Colonel.
They will of course verify everything you submit, and what they are trying to determine is if you have sufficiently proved yourself to be trustworthy in the context of National Security and Defense.
Honesty is not the best policy, it is the only policy, get caught omiting anything here and you‘re done for good.

To answer the question "Is it normal for the background check to be done first if CFRC knows about a criminal record?"

Yes it is normal, because if your Enhanced Reliability Status is in question it is a total waste of time and effort to allow you to proceed with your application until you have been granted this status.
It doesn‘t really matter what stage of your application you are on, if they discover a criminal record, everything will cease until this issue is cleared up.
Example, you are schedualed for a PT/Medical test 2 weeks away, but they discover the criminal record and decide to give you questionable status, they will almost certainly cancel those appointments, until a decision is reached.

In my case it took me twelve weeks to gather all the required information to make my case.
In the end I proved myself to have made sufficient progress in my life, and have demonstrated reliability and trustworthiness in employment to such a degree that they felt I would not be a security risk.  I was granted ERS

Now after almost 2 years of trying, I‘m at the waiting stage (all my testing/interviews are done)  Only I‘m holding my breath moreso than most other people because of the criminal record. It‘s a pretty significant minus to have on your file, and a lot of people will be selected ahead of me because of it.  I‘m crossing my fingers for a big recruitment season.
The reason I‘m telling you this is to let you know that the criminal record is likely to slow down your recruitment process considerably, and you need to be prepared to dig in and fight for yourself.
This is assuming that your record is "serious" of course.  I‘ve heard other people say that they were able to explain away their convictions without having to go through the ERS process.  You should probably already know which it will be.

Anyway, good luck.
Keep at it no matter what and you‘ll get through.


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## James Wood

hey Graham D. What do you think a conditional discharge will do to my process, no serious crime, just pety stuff. Will that slow my process down considerably? I have an interview on the 31st


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## Benoit

What is an advanced backround check? I was talking to the recuriter yesterday and he told me once they get my pt results and my edvanced backround check then everything else is smooth sailing. Thnaks in advance


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## GrahamD

Did he say advanced or "enhanced"?

Every potential member of the Canadian Armed Forces must be granted "Enhanced Reliability Status" before they are eligiable for employment.
The CAF does a detailed backround check on every induvidual to determine if the candidate is worthy of this status.
Basically they do a criminal record check, follow up on the references that you provided them, and do a credit history check.  As long as there is no problems in any of those areas, then it should still continue go fairly smoothly for you.


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## smoky

what do they look at in the credit history??

im making payments osap and well my credits not that great     but i dont owe anyone money


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## BestOfTheBest

I just went today and did my applications forms, and they said that i need to do the normal bakground check first, then do another check because i was not born in Canada although I have my Canadian Citizen Ship.
The guy said the process will take a long time for that because of the two background checks, which sucks becuase I am not be gareented to go to basic this summer.


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## ringo_mountbatten

From what I know about the credit check they are looking more for whether you will be able to pay your cuurent loans off with the pay you will recieve.  As for student loans, it is not a big deal because almost everyone has them in one form or another.  I think they are looking for more bouncing checques once a month and maxxing out credit cards at the same frequency and not paying them.


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## primer

This might help. I had to do an upgrade last week.
It sounds like a security check..

 http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/330-47_e.asp 

Cheers::


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## mike

has anyone been through the process of having a enhanced reliability check on them?? myself, i have 3 assaults and went for my interview today. i am now told that i will have to wait 3 months for my fingerprints to come back, at that time my file will go in front of a review board where they will decide if  i am trustworthy enough to be accepted into the military. i also have to provide them with all my prior court documents as well as probation reports. 
has anyone been in my shoes?? what outcome should i expect? my interviewer told me the interview went very well and i was an above average applicant..........help please!!!!!


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## GrahamD

Well, I have been through this process also.  I have talked about it in a few threads, I‘ll try and track them down and link to them later.

I can‘t really tell you what to expect in the long run.
I can tell you that they ultimately granted me Enhanced Reliability Status after they reviewed all my information.
However I‘m in the waiting process right now so I have no idea if they are going to give me a job offer or not.
I guess I‘ll have a better idea if I don‘t hear from them in the next 8 weeks or so.


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## mike

i appreciate the help from you and all others, they say not to expect anything to happen for 6 months. is your situation similar to mine by chance?


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## GrahamD

Well I originally applied about 2.5 years ago now.
I had a weapons restriction still in effect at the time so they closed my file.
I petitioned a judge to remove my weapons restiction, which he did, but when I took the legal documents to the CFRC they told me I had to wait for 6 months to reapply (because you need to be 6 months clear of legal obligations to the courts).

I was disapointed but I decided it was a good chance to work on my fitness.
The 6 months elapsed during a long weekend and I was really excited to reapply the following Tuesday.
However on the Sunday I broke my leg in a skydiving accident.  It was a pretty serious break and required surgery to put in a bolt and reattach all my ligaments.
I was in a cast for about 4 months and had more surgery to remove the bolt.
I spent about 6 months after that in physio trying to condition my leg back to a degree where I could realistically cope with the rigors of life in the infantry.
 It was a nice stroke of luck that my physio therapist was an ex medic from the CAF, and seeing him several times a week afforded me a lot of insight and motivation toward continuing to pursue this carrer choice.

Anyway, so when I finished with physio I started back into trying to condition myself to surpass the minimum requitements handily.  Unfortunately my cardio fitness level is not where it was before the accident, but I passed that portion and did 34/40 on pushups/situps.

When I was ready to reapply finaly,  They made me go for allergy testing because of a few bad bee stings I had as a kid (3 months for blood work) and when I got that squared away, that‘s when they sprung the Enhanced Reliability Status thing on me.  It took me about 3 months to get that sorted out.
So finaly about 3 weeks ago now I went for my interview and handed in a medical document that I was still missing.  They shipped my med file to Borden that day.  I went for a second PT test because the first was outdated (6 months) about 2 weeks ago, and with that my file is totally up to date.

They said when the med file comes back (it should have by now) that they will send my complete file back to Borden and hopefully I‘ll hear something soon.
So I‘m hoping to something any day.  They quoted me "within 8 weeks".  If I don‘t hear something by then I should call in and see whats happening.
Although I have a feeling that if  don‘t hear something in that time frame that its going to be bad news when I call in.

Thats my situation.


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## mike

sounds somewhat like my situation, first applied for reg force infantry about 2.5 yrs ago and just as you were, told to come back 6 months after all was cleared in the courts. re-applied after waiting the correct amount of time, waited and waited for a call to come, finally moved to b.c. (originally from wpg) to start our own business, then ironically i recieved a call from cfrc approx 2 weeks after we had gotten settled from our move etc. i then decided to give our business a go instead of continuing the application process (health and fitness club so fitness is not a problem!!) but still found myself talking nonstop to my wife about how if i don‘t at least try and get in i‘m going to go through life wondering, "what if". and also just as happened to you, the enhanced reliability check is now in effect!!
i‘d like to know who else is in our boat!!!!


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## Exvitae

I, too, am worried about the enhanced reliability check because I have bad credit.  (My experience of being self-employed did not work out at all.)  

I really hope they can look at extenuating circumstances and realize that nothing fraudulent or criminal occured - business just didn‘t work out the way I expected it to.

Got my test on tuesday and my medical the week after.  

mm


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## GrahamD

> Originally posted by Exvitae:
> [qb] I, too, am worried about the enhanced reliability check because I have bad credit.  (My experience of being self-employed did not work out at all.)
> 
> I really hope they can look at extenuating circumstances and realize that nothing fraudulent or criminal occured - business just didn‘t work out the way I expected it to.
> 
> Got my test on tuesday and my medical the week after.
> 
> mm [/qb]


The credit is only a portion of what they look at.  They understand that most people have some form of debt to deal with.

As long as you don‘t have severe debt, that you‘ve never tried to pay down, then you‘re probably in the clear.
I myself am paying a collection agency for a defaulted student loan, and even that combined with a criminal record did not prevent me from gaining Enhanced Reliability Status.

My conclusion on the subject is that the CFRC knows that people make mistakes in life, and so long as you have learned from the mistakes and have demonstrated change, they are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As for:   





> I really hope they can look at extenuating circumstances and realize that nothing fraudulent or criminal occured - business just didn‘t work out the way I expected it to.


They do not investigate you and gather evidence with which to press charges.  If there is no criminal record they will not assume you are a fraud or a criminal.
I don‘t know if you‘ve ever seen what a credit report looks like, but it only contains numbers, dates, and credit institution names.
It gives no deatils of "what" happened, so whatever you tell them they will take at face value.
They will know the exact months you forgot to pay a credit card on time, or missed a loan payment etc., but they don‘t care, as long as you didn‘t stop paying all together.


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## Superman

Haha.. ummm no.. Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) does a security check on you... It probably checks out if you have a criminal record... if you have been to any foriegn countries that are on our bad list.. Im quite possitive they dont come see your neighbours... If they did they woulda had a little trouble trying to get info out of the chickens and cows on my orchard/farm...


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## rdschultz

The closest they come to asking anybody about you is the reference letters they ask you to provide.  So even if 99% of the people you know hate you and would say bad things about you, all you have to do is come up with two people who would say otherwise.


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## Trey

Actually, they do.
I‘ve got some family in the government (fairly high level), and they get that kind of security check  every 7 or 10 years (I forget which). They check with the neighbours to find out if any suspicious stuff goes on at your house.

I‘m also having that kind of security check done, becuase I‘ve been out of the country within the last year. I had to give 3 neighbourhood references.


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## Greywolf

I have to enter the name of a neighbor for the references other than the 3 (who could be friends, colleagues...).  That‘s on the form where you have to take to St. Jean when you go to Basic.


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## willy

Yes and no.

If you require a security clearance, then a much more detailed background check will be done.  Depending on what kind of clearance you need, a visit may well be made to your neighborhood.  It won‘t be made by the dummies from the CFRC just swinging by your place on their way back from Tim‘s though, it‘s CSIS that does such checks.  Don‘t worry about your neighbor not knowing you, it‘s probably better that way.


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## Gorgon5000

My name raised red flags the first time they sent my clearence out to borden so they recalled me in for finger prints to verify I was the good guy with my name and not the convicted killer with the same.


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## Dehahaha

Hello. I was just wondering when CF does a back ground check on me, are they looking for a criminal record? Thanks.


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## Ender57

If you do have a criminal record just make sure that you tell them about it. If they find out on there own they won‘t be to happy about it and it will greatly affect your ability to join the armed forces.


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## Duotone81

If you were already accepted, as you stated in another thread that you were, you passed the security check.


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## Jarnhamar

And yes if you did drugs recently they will know. No there isn‘t a way around it.


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## smoky

well i thought all was going smoothly  but apparently my security check could take a while because i left canada last year and spent more than 4 weeks outof the country they said because of that a thourough investagtion would have to be done and that could take 6-9 months anyone every gone threw this??  im canadian born citizen not a landed immigrant i dont see what the problem is 

is 6-9 months just a blanket answer??


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## Pieman

Hi Smoky,

I am going through the same check right now. I spent a couple of years outside of Canada, but I was told the check could take 4-13 months. 

I don‘t think it is a blanket answer because each check can take a various amout on time depending on what countries you have been to or if any red flags come up. If you are outside the country they are worried about the possibility you came into contact with bad people, or are a spy etc. There is not anything you can do to hasten the process that I am aware of.

If you were in a fellow NATO country, then I would speculate that your check would be processed pretty fast. However if you were backpacking through Afganistan, Packistan, or similar country then that would raise some eyebrows and they would start picking up the phone to interview people, and that is where you would be waiting for a long time.

Kind of sucks doesn‘t it? You go out in the world to get some very valuable life experience and in a way you are punished by being made to wait a potentially long time. Oh well, it is  nessecary for them to do I guess. Better than risking a spy getting into the forces.


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## koach

The background check or ‘Enhanced Reliability Check‘ is initiated during the recruiting process; normally after the interview.  If you have resided in Canada for the past 10 years, the results come back fairly quickly.  However, if you have lived outside the country within the past 10 years, your background check may take much longer.


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## koach

The CFRC will initiate the ERC only after you have completed the authorization form.  This form is usually completed near the beginning of the recruiting process.  Where I work, the ERC is initiated after the CFAT.


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## MACK

Has anyone came across this one?
I served 12 years in canadian forces.
5 years in British i was released in oct 2003.
Applied to be an Officer in nov 2004 back in canada Regular forces. Had my test and await RCMP
security clearance I have been told i may wait another year??? I will not sit around and wait i shall badger who ever i need too!! Anyone any tips or advice?  :warstory:  


Mack.


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## Theoat

I have heard from a recruiter, if you have been outside Canada for 6 months or longer(I believe it was) during the past 10 years of your life, you are looking at 18 months + for CSIS to complete your security clearance. This if due to the 9/11 safety measures put in place. Someone else on here can probably confirm this.


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## koach

Any applicant who has resided outside of Canada within the past 10 years has to go through this process.  This Security Preassessment can take anywhere from 3-18 months to complete and there is nothing you can do to speed up this process!

My advise would be to call the CFRC periodically (once every couple of months) and inquire about the status of your file.


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## zbtneg

Actually, I was told by my recruiter that if I‘d taken vacations longer than 3 weeks in the last 10 years that my application would take longer. And if I‘d taken any vacation to a proscribed country (don‘t know which those are) it would take longer too. 

Thankfully I‘m too poor to take vacations. heh.


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## MACK

My argument is that I am former serving Soldier,and the fact that While I was residing
in Britain I was in the military. The Recruiters here I taught to become troop leaders!! They are appalled too and I feel 6 months has gone by already and I Know I can get this clearance in weeks. This is not an acceptable time frame.


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## koach

To give you a bit of perspective, I am in the process of updating my security clearance.  I have 14 years in the CF and my clearance will take at least 6 months to complete.

Security clearances and preassessments are very in-depth and involve various agencies and governments.  In addition, security officials are probably working on several hundred to maybe even thousands of the these requests at any given point in time.

CFRC‘s know it is frustrating for applicants to wait for something for which you already know the answer.

If you still feel that this is unacceptable or if you feel that you are not being treated fairly, you can either contact your Member of Parlement or the Canadian Forces Ombudsman   http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/


----------



## Bobby147

Hi all, 

This question is for all the people who applied for DEO and got selected (or in waiting list)......

I have applied for DEO and going through Security Check (applied last week). My file manager told me today that they will do a initial security check to find any criminal record and check my credit.

Then they will send me a form by mail and I will sign it and send them back. 

Was your Enhanced Security Check the same way ????


----------



## G3RM

Honestly I don't see why they need to do a credit check.

I havn't had mine done yet, but from searching in the boards this happens to most people.


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## Bobby147

CFRC wants to check if you have a loan and you are not making payments. 

In my case I have some student loan on me....  I am not sure if it is a negative thing.  ???


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## rdschultz

Yeah exactly, its one way they have of checking your reliability.  If you can't be responsible enough to manage your own finances and be reliable with that, they take it as an indicator of negative reliability.  I believe everybody has to go through this, not just most people.

Bobby147: Yeah, thats exactly how it went.  Fill out the form, then wait a little bit, and if there are any problems they'll get back to you.  I have student loans as well, including one that was rather problematic, but I cleared everything up with the bank, took in evidence of that, and I was told that it was no longer an issue.


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## Noyon

I had to get a credit check to get into the reserves, and Im 16. Im not even old enough to get a loan so I'd imagine its everyone not just most people.


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## Ender57

The Enhanced Reliability Check is the same no matter if you are applying to be an Officer or an NCO. Once you get to basic though or shortly there after everyone has go though a more in depth background check to determine security clearance. Most officers require secret security clearance. But for now as long as you have no criminal record or out standing loans, you'll be fine. There is the slight chance though that it could take a while for the Reliability check to come back, but hopefully not.


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## combat_medic

Since when do officers get Secret clearance?! I only know one or two people with that kind of clearance; one is an Engineer NCO who was doing some HumInt tasking overseas, and the other is an INT NCO. The majority of information that comes through a typical unit will be Protected A or B. Even when I spent time working in a BOR or with medical records, I never saw anything marked beyond Protected B. With the exception of Int Officers and people working in NDHQ and the like, why would Joe 2Lt require a Secret clearance?


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## Tpr.Orange

People like technicians are given classified clearances at different time depending on what they are working on, especially in regards to schematics etc..


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## casing

combat_medic said:
			
		

> Since when do officers get Secret clearance?!



I think that actually quite a few officers end up getting Secret clearance.   Such as MARS people, and CELE/Sigs who work in Leitrim.   I'm sure there are many more.   I know that at my place employment (for the next two months anyway!   ;D) all of the Signals Officers that come here have at least Secret, and a couple have Top Secret.   Indeed, I even have secret because of the equipment we work on.   So I think if I, a civvy, require Secret to work on this stuff, it stands to reason that the officers on the project also have at least Secret.


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## MJP

Secret clearance is given to people depending on where they go on tour as well.  My entire pl got secret clearance last year for Op Apollo, just because that is what they decided was the minimum clearance needed.  It's not like anyone really needed it in our Pl but it was what we were given.


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## casing

Also, I don't think Secret is such a big deal. It's actually rather easy to get--I have it. It's when you start talking about Top Secret that it becomes a big deal and much more goes into obtaining it.  And there better be a pretty good reason for it.


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## combat_medic

I understand that Secret is given out as needed, but it's hardly SOP to give every officer that walks through the door Secret clearance unless there's some reason they need it.


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## casing

> ...unless there's some reason they need it.



Yes, very true!   However, you also said you knew "one or two people" thereby implying that Secret clearance is rare indeed, which just isn't the case.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Never forget just because you have a certain security clearance that you get to view everything at that level, its still need to know. I had secret when I was in the Battery CP just to program a scrambler[if you will] ,this did not give me access to anything I didn't need to know.
Example:  The base housing NCO is top secret and I don't think he has the launch codes with him.


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## combat_medic

Casing: I DO only know 2 people who have (had?) secret clearance. Then again, I am a reservist in an infantry unit and have not yet been operational, so my exposure to people who have or require that kind of clearance would be understandably minimal.


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## mclipper

Just out of curiosity c_m.....how would you know if people have or don't have a security clearance?  Is this public knowledge?


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## combat_medic

Well, when I worked in the OR a ways back, I knew that virtually everyone in my unit (and the CF, apparently) had enhanced clearance. In all my course loading notices, it had the security classifications of all candidates, and the only time I saw either "unknown" or "enhanced" was the one candidate on my PLQ who was in INT. I asked him about it, and, while he was rather vague about the exact classification, he mentioned having at least Secret clearance while he was overseas. Also, when I was on basic, my Sect Comd had recently returned from overseas, and when he taught us about security classifications, mentioned his was upgraded to Secret (or maybe it was Top Secret, I don't remember, but it was impressive at the time). 

But to answer your question, typically, no, you won't know everyone's classification. But, if you're in the reserves with a unit that isn't privy to classified documents on a reguar basis, most people will not have the clearance. However, if you're working in a brigade, area or NDHQ, chances are a lot higher percentage of people will have it. As for me, I was curious about the way the different classifications worked and who gets them, so I picked my INT coursemate's brain for a while.


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## mclipper

Actually, everyone in the CF has Enhanced as a minimum.  Doesn't matter if they are Reg or Res.  The information used for course load messages used to come from ITMIS (now I think it's called MITE) and information such as security clearances is not alway accurate or up to date.  That is also why people who have remustered are often on the load messages as their previous MOC.  I guess what I am trying to say is that those are not any way to tell who has or does not have a security clearance.  
As for working in the OR, did you check each file to see who does or doesn't have clearances.  I think you would be very surprised at how many people (even in a reserve unit) have security clearances.


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## willy

Though most of it has been correct, some of the info posted in this thread has been a little off.   So as to clear up any misconceptions that remain, this is straight from the horse's mouth wrt this issue:



> Enhanced reliability status is the type of screening required when the duties or tasks of a position or contract necessitate access to designated information and assets, regardless of the duration of an assignment, appointment or contract. An individual granted enhanced reliability status may access, on a need-to-know basis, designated information and assets.
> 
> A security clearance is the type of screening required when the duties or tasks of a position or contract necessitate access to classified information and assets. An individual granted a security clearance may access, on a need-to-know basis, classified information and assets up to and including the level of security clearance granted.


In other words, enhanced reliability is required for all mbrs of the military, regardless of trade or place of employment, and grants them access to designated (Protected A, B, and C) materials, subject to their need to know.   Security clearances (Levels I, II, and III) grant a mbr access to materials classified as Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret, respectively.   The difference between classified and designated materials is that classified information is deemed sensitive and important to the national interests of Canada, and designated information is deemed sensitive and important to the interests of a particular individual.



> In 2000-2001, CSIS processed 49,964 requests for access to sensitive or restricted sites and facilities and 36,803 security assessments under the Government Screening program. The average time required to process Level I applications was 32 days. Level II applications required 41 days to process while it took an average of 113 days to process Level III applications.


It doesn't mention the average waiting time for an enhanced reliability check, but I believe that it's around 2 weeks, assuming that there are no hiccups. 

The above two quotes are from http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/gospubs/TBM_12A/CHAPT2-4-1_e.asp, and http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/eng/backgrnd/back9_e.html, respectively.


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## clasper

Wow.  I'm amazed they have an average of 113 days for level III clearances.  Mine took about 5 months, and was the fastest clearance of anyone in my unit, and the fastest among many people in the int community at the time (although this was 10 years ago).  A friend of mine waited just a hair under two years to get his clearance.  Sounds like they've sped up the process.  I hope they aren't cutting any corners...


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## willy

Well dude, if it makes you feel any better, mine was a nightmare, and the short version of the story is that it took over 5 years for my level III to come through.   Must have been all those bad cheques I passed to North Korean operatives during my time working for the Khmer Rouge in China.     ;D


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## Korus

Those numbers do seem quick. Maybe it just doesn't count the amount of time the application spends sitting in a pile waiting for someone to begin reviewing it...


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## willy

Exactly.  Don't start counting from the day that you hand in your application at the CFRC.  Those numbers reflect the amount of time that CSIS actually spends working on the individual checks.


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## portcullisguy

combat_medic said:
			
		

> Since when do officers get Secret clearance?! I only know one or two people with that kind of clearance; one is an Engineer NCO who was doing some HumInt tasking overseas, and the other is an INT NCO. The majority of information that comes through a typical unit will be Protected A or B. Even when I spent time working in a BOR or with medical records, I never saw anything marked beyond Protected B. With the exception of Int Officers and people working in NDHQ and the like, why would Joe 2Lt require a Secret clearance?



Actually, "secret" clearance is quite common in the Federal Public Service (which the CF is loosely associated to).  I just got secret clearance myself, which I required to have my workstation profile changed to that of a supervisor for some of the computer systems I use in my job with customs.  All supervisors have secret, and our intelligence officers have top secret.  I would imagine CF intel officers would be at top secret as well, putting them on par with us and CSIS.  CSIS will not even talk to any other gov't intel workers if they are not top secret cleared.

Enhanced is a very basic level of security clearance, intended for people who may have access or contact to low-level information, but not necessarily any sort of managerial control over it.  An officer has a command responsibility, and a requirement to access information on a more administrative level than an NCM, and secret would be a requirement.

Security clearance has nothing to do with the classification of materiel, such as Protected A or B.  It is the level of your right to access information in general, what precautions you take with that information, and the classification of information (other than Protected) that you need to access.  As always, you must have both a need and a right to access information, regardless of your and its classification.  And, fuindamentally, we are all responsible for security.

If someone dropped the most top secret war plans Canada had on your front step, and you found them, just because you are only Enhanced doesn't mean you shouldn't take steps to secure the information and prevent it from being disseminated, and contact the appropriate authorities.  You might catch hell for having it, but you're still doing your job if you are keeping it from the bad guys.


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## Korus

Just to elaborate, Proteced A, B and C are known as "designated" materials, not classified. Confidential, Secret, and TS are "classified" materials.


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## Andyd513

Im a sigs res. Pte (r) and was given the paperwork I needed to apply for level III the night I was sworn in. They expect us to have it filled out by the time we get back from BMQ so we can hopefully have the top secret clearance by the time we start our 3's, or at the latest when we come back.


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## willy

That's normal.  What's also going to be normal is that you won't even be close to having level III by then, unless a miracle happens.  You don't need level III for your 3's anyway, not by a long shot.  In an ideal world, a 3's student is supposed to have level II at least, but we pump through those who don't anyway.  If we didn't, we'd only get about two guys trained annually.


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## Inch

A little tidbit, all reg force officers are at least Secret (lvl 2), and certain trades are Top Secret (lvl3).  Lvl3 trades include, pilots, navs, MARS, etc.  The higher Security Clearance is due to the crypto radios and systems associated with aircraft avionics and and the same sorta thing on the ships, I'm sure the crunchies have that same kinda stuff with TCCCS and what not.  I enrolled 16 Jun 99 and had my Lvl 3 clearance by the middle of Nov 99.  I just renewed it since they're only good for 5 years.

Also, anytime you get a posting, attach posting, TD or any message for that matter, it has a few things on it: S/N, Rank, Name & Inits, MOC, Sec clearance, first official language (FOL) , second lang profile as well as your dependants.  Some of this stuff may be omitted but most of it is there most of the  time.

Cheers,


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## 291er

Security clearances can take a while, that's for sure.  I only waited six months for my Level III (and above) , however I know some ppl in my trade who are still waiting, going on 2 years for it.  CSIS also prioritizes clearances, for example, a Comm Rsch Pte waiting for his QL3 (which requires above TS) would not be high on the list, comparitively to someone requiring the same clearance to be deployed overseas.  It takes a while for CSIS to do all the "fieldwork" on you as well, such as interviewing old neighbours, teachers, etc.  If you're relatively young, and don't have any criminal history, and have not been bankrupt before, you shouldn't have a problem getting your clearance.


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## portcullisguy

It amazes me that it takes CSIS that long to do a security clearance.  I am convinced that most of the applications sit on a desk for a minimum period before anyone even looks at them.

I work in in a workplace with over 500 security cleared employees, all Level I or II, just with my employer, and a host of others from other government agencies.  Only a handful have mentioned that their neighbours or family have been interviewed.

I imagine the majority of the checks are done on computers, and at least half of them done on computers I already have access to: CPIC, PIRS, and (indirectly) RAPID, the tax system.  Those three right there will pretty much tell you everything you need to know about a person's history.

CSIS' main concern has traditionally been checking people against a database of people associated to terrorist and organized crime groups.  People with criminal convictions are routinely granted "clearance", at least at Level I (Enhanced - the clearance required to work at an airport in Canada).  It is up to an employer whether they want to hire someone with a criminal record, not CSIS.

In my opinion, the government would be better off having a police service to their checks.  The RCMP have a notoriously detailed and lengthy background check procedure, over and above the standard CSIS security checks.  They routinely interview references of your references, and check THEIR reliability, as well as the applicants.


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## willy

> It amazes me that it takes CSIS that long to do a security clearance.  I am convinced that most of the applications sit on a desk for a minimum period before anyone even looks at them.



That's probably the case, but as was mentioned earlier, requests for clearance are actioned on the basis of priority.  Mine took a long time, but I'm a reservist.  Other people probably got bumped ahead of me, and rightly so.



> I work in in a workplace with over 500 security cleared employees, all Level I or II, just with my employer, and a host of others from other government agencies.  Only a handful have mentioned that their neighbours or family have been interviewed.



As I understand it, interviews are not normally done on level I and II checks.  Level III and level III SA screenings are the ones that are really in depth.



> People with criminal convictions are routinely granted "clearance", at least at Level I (Enhanced - the clearance required to work at an airport in Canada).



Level I clearance is "Confidential", not enhanced.  The two are totally different.


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## 291er

Quite correct Willy.....
The interviews and such get really in depth when you're applying for Top Secret and above clearances.  Top Secret material is designated as material which could cause extreme damage to national security should it be disclosed to the wrong person(s).  And once you get above the Level III stuff, a completely different entity takes care of your screenings and ensure that you should rightly have access to sensitive material.

Level I and Level II clearances are quite common, especially in the Federal govt and law enforcement.  Remember that Level I and Level II info is disseminated on a "need-to-know" basis.  Whereas Level III and above is disseminated on a "must-know" basis.  I think some employees with low-level clearances (I and II) may go their entire career without seeing any classified material, this clearance is simply given because this classification of material is stored and viewed in the areas in which they work, so there is potential that they may see it.  And just because you have a Level III or above clearance does'nt mean you're James Bond or cleared to know about the alien cover-ups.....where I work we have janitors with above Level III clearances   

hope this provides some clarifications


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## casing

I'm curious about one thing.  Since the Level II clearances and up are not undertaken until after you enroll and are on course, what happens if you require a Level III but end up not being able to get it?


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## willy

If your MOC requires a minimum security clearance level which you are not able to meet, then you will face either compulsory remuster or release.


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## casing

Here's a link to an interesting article about how CSIS conducts Level III clearances.   The article is basically complaining about the process being outdated, but there is some good information in there about *what* is actually done.

http://highspeed.rogers.com/news/national/story.jsp?cid=n071125A


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## portcullisguy

When I first started, not only was Level I the same as "Enhanced" but they had a special category for Airport security clearance.

Now, the new TBS330 form lists only the following security categories:

- Reliability Status
- Level I (Confidential)
- Level II (Secret)
- Level III (Top Secret)

Only Level III requires a photograph attached.

They used to also ask what other citizenships you have (and that Rogers article mentions that dual citizens are checked out more thoroughly), but there is no space to put that info on the new form, which came out in 2002.  It now asks if/when you immigrated to Canada.


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## rdschultz

On the bottom of the 2nd page (of the TBS/SCT 330-60E), it asks if you maintain citizenship of a country other than Canada.


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## Arctic Acorn

Certain trades do require clearances, and officers in the regular force are SUPPOSED to have a Level II. Reason being is that not having one can limit employability. Case in point: a public affairs officer gets posted to a headquarters, and she does not have a security clearance. Even though she has no normal day-to-day need to access classified information, she cannot enter the command area, as it is a secure area, and you need a clearance to enter. She has to leave weekly staff meetings whenever anything sensitive comes up. In short, it's a huge pain in the ass. A secret clearance is not a big deal, and I'm pretty sure they don't even interview folks for it. 

As for the article about CSIS interviews, I've been used as a reference for a buddy who needed his Level III. I met with the CSIS guy at my office for a coffee, and they do ask some personal questions. It's not hard to agree with the view that the interviews are a little outdated when the guy asked me if my buddy."Liked girls..." (good thing he didn't subject me to the horrors of the Fruit Machine). However, all those left-wing privacy 'Ethnocultural Council' nuts don't seem to understand that human rights legislation needs to be more flexible when it comes to investigating people for security clearences. CSIS doesn't give a rats ass if you're gay, and usually being in debt isn't a problem. They're trying to ascentain if there is anything about your past that could be used as leverage. They want to know if you're co-optable, bribeable, or if you can be threatened. If you're from a country of concern, or have family still resident there, expect more scrutiny. If privacy crusaders think that an authoritarian regime won't harm a persons family if an intelligence agency in that country is after a targets tasty tasty secrets, they live in a warm, fuzzy dreamworld. 

As far as I'm concerned, the "government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation", but when you want to work for the government, and you're applying for a job that will put you in contact with sensitive information, loss privacy is a fact of life. If you don't like it, don't apply.


----------



## casing

You are right.  They don't interview anyone for Level II.  I have Level II and it only took a couple months and no one I am acquainted with was contacted.  Unless they are lying to me about it...   :threat:


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## Arctic Acorn

Nah, you'd know...the folks you asked to be references will tell you. It's not like they swear them to secrecy or anything.


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## casing

I know, I was just kidding.

Interesting thing about this.   I already have Level II clearance because of my job.   However, I apparently can't just re-assign that clearance to the CF (like I could if I quit this one and got a job at another company) once I swear-in (Aug 25th... counting down the days and hours..... ;D).   Seems like a royal waste of resources to repeat the process (on CF and CSIS part I mean, not mine--I already have the info I need) to redo my clearance as if I didn't have any, but that is of course what's going to happen.   Just one more way of adding to the backlog.


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## Arctic Acorn

Well, the good news is that when they get to your file, they'll see that you had a previous security clearance and that will expedite things for you. 

The delay will be in -getting- to your file. If there's a backlog, that will delay things for you. It's always a crapshoot trying to figure out timings.


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## badapple

going way back in this thread to where the average days to get your file processed, those are most likely worked days, so keep that in mind when you say to your self, wow, mine took 7 months, because 120 worked days IS nearly 7 months


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## Pieman

> going way back in this thread to where the average days to get your file processed, those are most likely worked days, so keep that in mind when you say to your self, wow, mine took 7 months, because 120 worked days IS nearly 7 months


Despite that it took yours 7 month I believe that it is days, not worked days as I read those kind of statistics off the CISIS websight (who does the security clearance). So the average files should be about 4 months. That is the average so there are plenty that take longer. 

I could be mistaken, and I tried to find my source again but to no avail, anyone here know the source of this information? It was interesting becuse it also showed that government employers have their security sweep done about twice as fast as CF people.


----------



## Torlyn

As a federal employee, I believe I can attest to that...  Granted, I'm not aware of the specific difference in security checks, but we are run through CSIS as well.  My security check was completed in 1 month...  Perhaps, owing to the potential for members of our armed forces to come in to contact with more sensitive information, the checks would naturally take longer?  All I know is they would have CPIC'd me, checked my two references, and done a financial screening with my SIN number.  What else do they search for new recruits?


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## Pieman

I was also a Federal Employee for my summer jobs while in University, My first summer I showed up for work and we found out that I had to get a Enhanced security clearance to be able to use the computers. They would not let me on the computers at all   because I had no clearance, but that meant I could not do my job.   Then my boss called CSIS and said I had to get it really fast as my job was to work on the computer. I got my Enhanced clearance in less than 7 days.

Granted, this was a special situation, but wonder if they would ever do something like that for a CF personal?


----------



## Fruss

I would like to volonteer for the RCMP and they are doing an enhanced security check..  Will it be valid for the CF or will they do their own?? Joining SigOp in Reg F.

And for them who thinks so, No, I'm not volonteering just for the security check..   :  :dontpanic:


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## mclipper

No.  It will not be valid.  CFRC will still conduct an ERC on you.


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## shad

Likewise if you already have your Level 1 (or whichever) Security clearance with the CF, the RCMP will still do their own. 
Frank, which Detachment are you volunteering with? I applied to volunteer with the UBC Det.


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## Fruss

It's in Coquitlam..  on Ridge street I believe..


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## Ender57

They'll need one for themselves. It's most likely because there are different things that they will be looking for and it will depend on what you'll be doing for them.


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## Fruss

Thanks for the info all of you..


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## portcullisguy

The RCMP are special, and allegedly do their own checks.  They do not use the standard public service CSIS check, apparently.

Any RCMP here able to confirm this?


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## johnny_boy

Just wondering if anyone knows how long this takes (ballpark). I called the recruiting centre and they said this was the last thing they were waiting on for my file and it would be completed by the 26th of August. Now, I didn't really expect to be done then as I have had the advice of many friends already in that say "Don't believe it until you see it". Anyways, the 26th has come and gone and just wondering how long the check usually takes? It went off around the beginning of August.


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## mike62

It could take from one to 6mths...........mine was started in June......nothing yet.........it's the only thing I am waiting on too........


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## The_Solecist

All these comments about the length of time required for various clearances is interesting...

There is a level higher than Level III - Top Secret.  It is SA (Special Access) which is really a very small list of people and specific to an exact location, topic, or set of information.

My Level Three took less than 2 weeks to get... I was given 12 days notice to get on a plane for Bosnia.  I got my Passport, vaccinations, and clearance all before take-off.  My file was submitted earlier than that, but they only picked it up to dust off, and process when it became necessary for my deployment.

The bureaucracy of holding files until there is a definite need allows only those who truely need the clearance to get it.


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## PARAMEDIC

Heres just some examples of what would make your security check take longer..
1) conviction/ unpardoned
2)bad credit/no credit ...creditors on your arse day and nigth saying wheres mah money$$$
3)minor offensses with cops

if your clean as a slate and you dont have any financial obligations ..then yours could be done in a month .... thats how long it took for me , but then again my credit needed a little clarification and i had to provide letters sayiing that the things that showed up on my credit report were infact payed off 2 yrs ago but weren't removed from the report by my creditors..

 word of advice, give eqifax a call and order a report and make sure that if all your bills were paid in full it reflects that on your report if not you;ll be in for some greif trying to get in touch with creditors trying to clear up things.

all in all it can take a month or longer


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## PinkPanther

ERC results take roughly a working week to get positive results back, thats if everything runs perfectly.

ERC's should be sent the day you completed the CFAT and returned for MCC to review before your interview commences.  If any part of the system is clogged or there are higher priorites to take care of your ERC is put on the back burner for abit.  Once the results are returned, the recruiting centre is still responsible to make sure that information is accurate and then a clerk has to process the results, enter the info and paperwork back into your file.

Now if you've lived outside of Canada during the past 10 years and/or have immediate family members who live over seas you'll in for a long wait.  Pre-secure forms take about 6 months-2years to process!


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## cathtaylor

Hi my security check came back in a little over 2 months (did something stupid years ago) but I was told that was pretty fast considerating the situation. It should'nt take too long ....it will come through. Have you tried calling RC to see what's happening.


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## johnny_boy

Yeah, it's weird. I called the Recruiting Centre and they said everything came back a ok, and my file was now off to the unit. So I called the unit and they said they dont have it, but the unit recruiter said he would contact the recruiting centre and call me back. He called me back and said that it was a miscommunication and my security check wasn't back. Then the next day I called the recruiting centre again and they again told me it was all done and someone would be in touch with me tomorrow. Tomorrow came which is today (confused yet?) and no call. I'll call again on Thursday to see whats up. They're giving me the run around!


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## hiv

As they say "Patience is a virtue"

I waited 8 months from when I applied to when I went off to basic and that seemed typical from the people I encountered. Just wait out for now. The wheels of red-tape don't spin as quickly as we'd like in the CF.


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## rdschultz

PinkPanther said:
			
		

> ERC's should be sent the day you completed the CFAT and returned for MCC to review before your interview commences.



This is all dependant on the CFRC you deal with and their policies.  I completed my CFAT and then immediately (within 15 minutes) started my interview.  When the ERC came back, along with the credit check, the MCC gave me a phone call with a question about it.


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## 30 for 30

This month is the two-year anniversary of my DEO MARS application. I lived in the UK for a year in '99 and I had to do a verification of former service, and thus I wait. Shouldn't be too much longer now, though. When I joined at 17 ten years ago it took a month to get in uniform and start basic, mind you that was a reserves application.

Just thought I'd share the details of my application journey...


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## Goober

I read the FAQ and I couldn't find a difinitive answer for this question. Is the credit check apart of the background check?

Reason I ask is, I just called the RC and they said my background check came back OK, now they are just waiting for my medical. So now I wonder if a credit check was completed. I have an outstanding student loan, but have already made arrangements to pay, and I informed the RC of this during my interview.

I just want to know how close I am to getting in, and don't want any surprises delaying my file.


----------



## hiv

A lot of people have student loans and they joined without a problem. Just be patient, the process takes time. When I joined it took me 8 months from the day I walked into the recruiting centre to the day I left for basic training. Your rainbow will come


----------



## Scott

They just want to know that you are not going to be a financial/administrative burden on them. I was told that even an unpaid parking ticket is enough to raise eyebrows. This may seem far fetched but I got it from the recruiter....believe or not.


----------



## Morpheus32

Everything is up for discussion with your military career councillor.  If you had some bad debt, tell him/her about what happened and what you are doing about.  Debt is a fact of life.  As long as you are doing something about it maturely, it is not really an issue.  If you just don't feel like dealing with your debt or decided the cops were wrong to give you that ticket so you aren't paying....the MCC is going to scratch their head and starting thinking about your maturity and more importantly how you are dealing with the problem.  You can't just decide not to do stuff in the military so how you handle your own affairs is indicitive of how you will handle yourself in the CF.

Credit check is part of the enhanced reliablity screening.  You sign the form that had all the areas that you had to initial.  If you have some debt issues, best to discuss it when asked in your interview.

Jeff

ex MCC


----------



## Gryphon

depends on the level of security needed... For Enhanced Reliability (ER) then i think it's a simple Background Check, police report, etc. For your Lv 3, it's much more complicated.. MUCH more complicated... CSIS comes a knocking on the doors of your neighbours, takes your friends out for coffee.. they'll know everything!

hope this helps


----------



## SilentWolf

Hi, 

I hear that in order to join the CF, you need to acquire a level 1 security clearance. I am a US Citizen, and have lived my entire life in the United States. As to why I want to join the CF, that is explained in my previous topic "What are the Lasik policies of the CF".
My question is, as a US citizen who has never really spent any time in Canada, how would they conduct a background check if I have no records in Canada? Do they talk to the US embassy or something? Would that significantly delay the already long application and selection process? I have no criminal record, never been arrested, don't do drugs, brush my teeth, voted against Bush, am nice to people, etc, so would I have a problem getting the needed security clearance? Just wondering,
Thanks.


----------



## Torlyn

You may also want to read the CF's recruiting page.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/eligibility_e.aspx

It states rather clearly that in order to be a full member of the CF, you need to be a Canadian citizen.  SOME jobs are available with permanent residency status, but I don't think that applies to you.  Sorry.

T


----------



## SilentWolf

I'm thinking of joining the Infantry. Possibly Airborne Infantry. I will have a permanent residency when I apply, and I'm looking into getting a Dual US-Canadian Citizenship, but to keep things simple, how hard is it for a permanent resident, who happens to be a US citizen, to get the clearance to join the Infantry?


----------



## Tracker

The CF is currently hiring Canadian Citizens only.  In order to get level 1, you are required to live in Canada for a minimum of five consecutive years, they must be the last five years.


----------



## SilentWolf

Well... so much for _that_ dream... Unless the US Marine Corps changes their LASIK surgery/eyesight policies, it looks like I wont be able to serve in the military... :'( Oh well, there's always police work. BTW, does the 5 year residency limit apply to the Reserves as well?


----------



## gorf

I'm not positive about this but I'm pretty sure all the requirments are the same for getting in, you just choose what one (reg. or res.) you wish to join.


----------



## MdB

Hi folks!

I finally had my interview on Nov. 24th, after waiting a month since I had my rendez-vous on Oct. 26th. I was so eager to do it! Enthousiasm as I was, I went to meet the recruiting officer, all went well until we talked about my job in Germany I had 2 years ago. Then, what I most dreaded came on the table, in the talk I mentioned that I had been French as Foreign Language Assistant in Germany for 8 months. After mentioning that, he explained to me that the procedure requires to ask a security clearance to the german government and that my application will be on hold until it comes back to DND (or CSIS for what I know...) and then that means that wait length is undetermined but could be 6 months and up to a year. The officer explained to me as well that DND can't push german government authority too much because it could turn back on us if they push too hard. That I understand quite well and I believe in that kind of procedure, even though I know my file is as white as it can be in Germany as well as in Canada (I even never earned a speed ticket!!). That's frustrating but necessary.

Now, knowing as well that german bureaucracy is not the best ranked in speed, what is available to me? Just wait and be patient until CFRC call me back?? I received a suggestion that consists in writing the canadian embassy in Germany to ask them if they can push to complete my security clearance as soon as possible... Really don't know if that worth it, but I'll try even though my chances are slim. Any suggestion or advice would be welcome...


----------



## Eowyn

Having talked with a recruiter, this weekend, you must be a Canadian citizen to apply to the Reserve force.  He mentioned that this is a relatively new requirement.  There is a minimum residency requirement for a Landed Immigrant to apply for Citizenship.  So the short answer is yes, there is a minimum time you must have lived in Canada to apply for the Reserves.


----------



## beyondsblue

I guess all you can do it wait, yeah, you could try to write to the German Embassy, see if that could fasten things up a little. 
Otherwise, be patient. 

Good luck


----------



## beyondsblue

Are there a "minimum time spent in Canada" policy for ROTP, too?


----------



## StormTrooper

Writing to the Canadian embassy is not going to cut it.. They have more important things to do.. Rules are rules, so you gotta wait..


----------



## MdB

Thanks for your words.



			
				StormTrooper said:
			
		

> Writing to the Canadian embassy is not going to cut it.. They have more important things to do.. Rules are rules, so you gotta wait..


I wasn't complaining or trying to bypass the process. Just asking the question. I know that procedure are there to insure we have a secure force.

Anyway, a friend of mine explained to me that embassies are there for consular jobs and politic...

Gosh, I only hope that will only take a few months rather than a year or two, which is really a good way to discourage any candidate. Unless, you plan to join only lather in your career... Note that the pre-evaluation security clearance form states that it can take "a few months up to 2 years (or more)". Like saying we don't know how long at all, hehe.

Hmm, train, read, train, read, hope, and wait for the call is my burden now.


----------



## SilentWolf

Yeah, but does that whole "landed immigrant to Citizen" process take 5 years? That's a pretty long time...


----------



## Eowyn

SilentWolf said:
			
		

> Yeah, but does that whole "landed immigrant to Citizen" process take 5 years? That's a pretty long time...



http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/becoming-howto.html

To become a Canadian citizen you must:

have lived in Canada for at least three of the four years before applying (amongst other things.)

BTW, it only took me a couple of minutes to Google for that.  Maybe you might want to try that next time.


----------



## AndrewD83

You are probably better off heading back to USA to join their army.  If the marines doesn't work out how about the U.S. Army?

For a last resort you can always sign up with England military


----------



## rmc22208

Since September 11th, all (repeat all) level III sec clear must now undergo the following:

Background check
Reference Check
Work History Check (past supervisors)
Neighbourhood reference check

A full fledged, field investigation will be instantiated by CSIS upon reception of the request from DMP Secur 2.  

A CSIS Intelligence Officer will personally meet with people mentionned in your application.  As I was told, by people of experience, the preferred way of meeting them is by contacting them at work, CSIS employees also work on a 9-5 schedule.

The typical phases for DND sec clear goes as follow:


Submit Paperwork (1-2weeks)
Paperwork info is entered in system(1-2 weeks)
DMP secur 2 verifies entry clerk's work
application is triaged and assigned to priority list
level III and above are flagged for background investigation request
CSIS gets requests from DND and establishes its own priorities
Investigation is performed, the more widespread are the travelling and residency physical locations of an applicant, the longer the investigation takes
Investigation report is issued to DMP Secur 2
DMP Secur 2 acts on CSIS recommendations by 1. issuing the security clearance, or; 2. denying the sec clear and issues a certificate of denial to the investigated subject
If granted, DMP secur 2 informs the subject's unit security officer to brief member's on its new security clear
A Sec clear certificate is issued to the member, which can be used to access information, on a need to know basis
Throughout this process, depending on the specifics of the sec clear requirements, a personal interview with the subject and other types of tests may be required.  I cannot elaborate on these since they are constantly changing.


----------



## SilentWolf

No US branch will take me since the DOD has a Service Wide restriction on eyesight. I am currently looking into getting into the Miami Police Dept (my home town) and possibly entering one of their SWAT teams after a few years in. After a few years of that I might be able to land a job for BlackwaterUSA (www.blackwaterusa.com) and do pretty much what I wanted to do in the Armed forces. It'll take a helluva long time though....


----------



## D-n-A

SilentWolf, I don't know why the DoD would have a restriction like that, considering the US Army provides laser surgery to its members that want it.


----------



## scm77

Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Does this mean CSIS comes to interview former neighbors/bosses etc of everyone who is joining the forces?  Or is this just for some higher level of security clearance?


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

No, they only conduct this kind of in-depth investigation for level 3 clearances, and you only need that for certain MOCs that may handle material which has that classification. So it's not everyone (wow that would take forever!)


----------



## scm77

Thanks for clearing that up.  I thought that would be a little extreme.


----------



## James12345

Hey guys,
6 months ago I handed in my enhanced security check because I lived in switzerland for 10 months last year.  I was born in canada and except for this excursion have never been out of country.  They said it was going to be 6-12 months.  I was wondering if anyone has any past experiences for my situation and how long it took for a reply and also if going down and visiting the cfrc a lot makes a diference(I have started calling now).  The recruiter told me I was still processing and thats it.  I was told by someone that these forms are a lot of times not sent back by the foreign country because it is not compulsory to sign and send back these forms to canada, has anyone had this problem?  This almost gave me a heart attack because the army is my dream.  Any help/advice would be welcome.
Thanks guys 
James


----------



## Love793

The form it self is not sent to the country of interest.  A request is made by Ottawa to the other Sovereign Nation to obtain the information about the applicant (Who is he/she, where did they live, what did they do, what Education do they have and are they criminals).  Certain countries and Canada do not get along, therefore it may take a while for them to process the request (if they even act on it).  Other countries (a certain rather large unnamed one, that made up the largest land mass in the former USSR, comes to mind) do try to cooperate, but do to either piss poor records keeping or a serious breakdown in internal communications have trouble retrieving the information asked of them.  Others (US and Britain) have no trouble tracking this and usually the return happens in about 3-6 months.  Ahhh Bureaucracy at it's best. 8)


----------



## RyanNS

Hrmm. In the past two-three years I was in Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, England and Ireland. Some of these countries I have only been in for a few days (just driviing through) while others I have been in for months at a time and have made a couple of different trips to. Anyone have experiences like this? I was in all these countries for legitimite reasons, but I know some of them may be viewed as "skecthy"  : I passed in my application about 2 mos. ago and graduate from Uni. in June. Any thoughts on whether this may slow down my processing??


----------



## Pieman

> I passed in my application about 2 mos. ago and graduate from Uni. in June. Any thoughts on whether this may slow down my processing??


What security clearance form did you fill out? If they felt you were living in other countries for a long period of time, they will give you a 'long' security form. They did that with me as I was out of the country for over 2 years. It took 8 months for my clearance to come back.

If you did not have to fill out the 'long' security form, from what I recall you should get your clearance in a few weeks. (Not sure the exact time, but it is not nearly as long)

Have you been in contact with the recruiting center since you passed in your application? You should be calling every couple of weeks to check its status.

Pieman


----------



## RyanNS

That's the thing I didn't fill out anything yet. Funny thing is I got a call one week later from someone asking me why I passed in my application when I hadn't yet graquated friom uni. Before all this when I was talking to a recruiter though they said to pass in my application before i graduate  ??? I told them this, then they said oh ok, we'll get back to you then. I called them last week and they said the same thing, it's being processed and we will get back to you  : From what I hear on this forum I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in them to be getting back to me anytime soon though.


----------



## Love793

As long a the form has not filled out, nothing is happening with your file.   CFRC can not complete a ERC on your if they don't have it.   Same with your references.


----------



## Pieman

Something does not sound right. Perhaps they are waiting to do your security sweep after you graduate? How long before that happens? 

If I were you I would go talk to these people in person, and figure out what is going on with your file.


----------



## mjr payne

i have been waiting since semptember for security clearence, is antbody else waiting or received clearence from cfb borden lately ?


----------



## Gilligan

Let's just say it takes a looooooong time!  Of course it depends on the level of clearance, but, yeah it takes a very long time!


----------



## mjr payne

yah i assume i dont need a very high level of clearence because i am only going reg force infantry


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

Your initial clearance (enhanced reliability- the one you apply for while at the recruiting centre) shouldn't take that long. Of course there are factors which may make it take longer, eg. living outside of Canada for long periods of time, being born in a scheduled country, etc. It's those higher levels of clearance that take FOREVER.


----------



## Air Force Tech

I applied in mid September for ATIS Tech, and AVN Tech.  I did all of my testing including the interview in one day.  The Captain who did my interview said that my Enhanced Reliability Check would take 2 - 3 weeks, which it did.  My medical would take 4 -6 weeks, also true.  I was merit listed by late October.  BTW, I was born in Mexico so I thought my reliability check would take a lot longer than it did.  I guess Mexico is not one of the "scheduled" countries.  Whatever that means. Perhaps Sig Bloggins can provide is with clarification on the term.   Anyhow, I'm  "busy" waiting for the call which I imagine I will get after the January or April selections.  (with any luck)


----------



## ppcli

Exactly what is looked at for an enhanced reliability check - I know there is a criminal background check and a credit bureau check, but is there anything else?


----------



## Navalsnpr

I think that it is just about it.


----------



## garb811

When you sign your Personel Screening Consent and Authorization From you will initial beside all the items which may be checked in the course of determining if you can be granted an ERC and/or Security Clearance.   In addition to the Criminal and Credit checks there is also Personal Data, Education, Professional Qualifications, Employment History, Character Refs etc. 

If you've already signed the consent then you've signed something you didn't understand.   If you kept your copy, pull it out and have a read of it.


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

There's a whole list of scheduled countries out there, I believe there was a thread on it a little while back. I believe that countries on the list include ones that Canada doesn't have particularly amicable relations with, or hasn't in the recent past. (For example, I know all the countries that made up the former Soviet Union are on that list, there's a whole lot more and it's always changing, so if you really want to know what they are, your recruiter would probably have the most updated list.)

Hope that helps somewhat.


----------



## mjr payne

the reason i need one is because when i was 18 four years ago i  was charged with possesion of a controlled substance.... and u you know what the kicker is, i think within six months of that happening they changed the law and made so u only receive a fine, but dont get me wrong i take full responability for my actions


----------



## FredDaHead

gryphon664 said:
			
		

> For your Lv 3, it's much more complicated.. MUCH more complicated... CSIS comes a knocking on the doors of your neighbours, takes your friends out for coffee.. they'll know everything!
> 
> hope this helps


 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I got a few questions. We've had troubles with our old neighbors (new people moved in a month or two ago) including what I guess would be called a restraining order (I never saw the legal paperwork, so I don't know if it was actually that, but I was told that a regular visitor to our neighbor's couldn't come within 100m of the house or from me or my dad, so...), and I don't exactly know the rest of my neighbors, would that be a problem? (That's what you get for living in the big bad city!) By the way, how far back to they go? I doubt people from my neighborhood 7-8 years ago will remember anything about me. Even a lot of people who lived in my neighborhood for a few years before my moving to the city don't know me!

And do they really talk to your friends? (How do they know who your friends are, anyways?) If so, would it be a problem if some of my friends are a bit on the far-left side? (A few are regular protestors) I don't hang out with anarchists bent on destroying the government or anything, but I know some people who probably aren't held in high regards by the various security/law enforcement agencies.

I haven't really had a troubled past or anything, but there's been a few snags along the way, like the neighbor thing.

Anyways, the whole security clearance thing is making me nervous, and I haven't even done anything wrong... I think? Anybody else get nervous like that?


----------



## MILPO

rmc22208 said:
			
		

> Since September 11th, all (repeat all) level III sec clear must now undergo the following:
> 
> Background check
> Reference Check
> Work History Check (past supervisors)
> Neighbourhood reference check
> 
> A full fledged, field investigation will be instantiated by CSIS upon reception of the request from DMP Secur 2.
> 
> A CSIS Intelligence Officer will personally meet with people mentionned in your application.   As I was told, by people of experience, the preferred way of meeting them is by contacting them at work, CSIS employees also work on a 9-5 schedule.



So what kind of trades would this apply too?  Is the level 3 a secret right after enhanced or is it a level of secret clearance?


----------



## FredDaHead

MILPO said:
			
		

> So what kind of trades would this apply too?   Is the level 3 a secret right after enhanced or is it a level of secret clearance?



From what I can remember (from the security clearance form) Level 1 is something like Classified (can't remember exactly), Level 2 is Secret and Level 3 is Top Secret.


----------



## johnny_boy

I'm in the process of filling out my application for level III and where it says neighbourhood reference, does it HAVE to be someone on your street? Because I live by apartment buildings and in my whole 19 years of living there never knew anyone really well, and if I did they moved within months. I have tonnes of people in my close neighbourhood I have known for ever, but none on my specific street... So does it matter if my neighbourhood reference litterally a 20 second walk from me, but on a different street?


----------



## MILPO

Frederik G said:
			
		

> And do they really talk to your friends? (How do they know who your friends are, anyways?) If so, would it be a problem if some of my friends are a bit on the far-left side? (A few are regular protestors) I don't hang out with anarchists bent on destroying the government or anything, but I know some people who probably aren't held in high regards by the various security/law enforcement agencies.



I believe you may be required to disclose some of that information (although I'm not aware of the extent of your situation) ...if it is asked, it would be best to disclose, as you wouldn't want the BGI to find any hidden surprises during your background check.   If your going through a level II or III clearance, I'm sure it would be pretty thourough.   Being honest throughout the process will take you a long way.


----------



## shootergurl

What positions would level 3 clearance be required for?  Just Curious?  

I am also wondering about the neighborhood part.  Since I've been in my current town- 11 years - not once have I gotten to know any neighbors - not one.  For the most part I couldn't even tell you what they look like.  So how would neighbors even remember me?  Thanks :


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

Frederik G said:
			
		

> Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I got a few questions. We've had troubles with our old neighbors (new people moved in a month or two ago) including what I guess would be called a restraining order (I never saw the legal paperwork, so I don't know if it was actually that, but I was told that a regular visitor to our neighbor's couldn't come within 100m of the house or from me or my dad, so...), and I don't exactly know the rest of my neighbors, would that be a problem? (That's what you get for living in the big bad city!) By the way, how far back to they go? I doubt people from my neighborhood 7-8 years ago will remember anything about me. Even a lot of people who lived in my neighborhood for a few years before my moving to the city don't know me!
> 
> And do they really talk to your friends? (How do they know who your friends are, anyways?) If so, would it be a problem if some of my friends are a bit on the far-left side? (A few are regular protestors) I don't hang out with anarchists bent on destroying the government or anything, but I know some people who probably aren't held in high regards by the various security/law enforcement agencies.



For your referances, you're required to include a referance from your neighbourhood. Just include a neighbour who you have more friendly relations with, I guess. The neighbour I put down didn't even know my name at the time, but I occassionally said hi to them in the morning if I saw them. I would think the main thing they want to know from them is how long they've known you, and if there's been anything "suspicious" happenning in the house. 

If you include your friends as referances, you'd include their name, address, phone #, etc. You'd probably want to include friends that would say good things about you, and it doesn't really matter what they're political views are, the interviewers aren't really concerned with them. They're more concerned with you, and what your friends know about you. 

Remember, not all trades require Level II, and even fewer require Level III.


			
				shootergurl said:
			
		

> What positions would level 3 clearance be required for? Just Curious?



Certain trades that could handle sensitive equipment/ classified material. For example, sig ops might use equipment with crypto in it, so we need a clearance to do so. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## kincanucks

Bobby147 said:
			
		

> I applied for DEO position a few months back. My security clearance is under processing....
> 
> My question is do they(CFRC) really call the three references you give????
> 
> I called my references and they told me that nobody called them yet....
> 
> Thanks...



Wow since this thread has delved into every aspect of the security clearance except the one you are referring to, so I thought I would jump in.  If you were required to fill out the 330-60E form (the long one) and you are only applying for the CF then you must need a pre-enrolment security assessment because you have not lived in Canada for the last ten continuous years or you are from a scheduled country or you have relatives that live in a scheduled country.  As mentioned in some of the threads, CSIS is the agency that will contact the references you have indicated on the form.  This pre-enrolment security assessment ascertains whether or not you will be a security risk to Canada and it can take a very long time to do so it is not unusual your references have not been contacted as of yet.  You may have done something as innocent as travelled in the UK for 8 months but you still have to have the check done.

IMPORTANT POINT!!!

It is your responsibility to make sure that the information you provide on the form remains current because if CSIS encounters any difficulties verifying the information everything will come to a full stop.


----------



## Moobus

Well, I've decided to send off an application from England, in the hopes that most of the process will be done when I get back home. Since I've been living here for about a year now, it appears that I'll have to fill out the long form for a background check. Problem is, I can't find a copy of it online, and I don't exactly live near a CF recruiter. Can anyone direct me to the form?

(On a related note, do online samples of filled out forms exist? There are a couple of fields I'm not certain on, and if I imagine that the slightest imperfection could delay my application by at least the time of two ocean crossings.)


----------



## Pieman

Moobus,

Are you sure you can apply from there? When I first tried to apply I was out of the country, and the recruiters said I could not until I returned to Canada...don't let this keep you from trying to apply, just forewarning you that it may not pan out.

Pieman


----------



## Mileender

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I'm in that situation. I had to fill out a 330-60E because I've spent a lot of time working outside of Canada. They told me it would take up to 2 years. Does that sound right?


----------



## kincanucks

Mileender said:
			
		

> Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I'm in that situation. I had to fill out a 330-60E because I've spent a lot of time working outside of Canada. They told me it would take up to 2 years. Does that sound right?



Quite possibly.


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

I actually had a question about that form. 

I was just looking it over trying to remember what I wrote (I had to fill one out over a year ago for my security clearance) and noticed that the form is slightly different then the one I filled out. I filled out a long paper with alot of orange writing, and then I believe they changed something to do everything electronically cause the clerks in my OR then moved all the info onto a similar looking paper as the one in the link.

However, there are several sections in that form which I don't remember filling out. Would this be a major problem, or would it be enough that I filled out the old form?

(BTW, my security clearance check should be almost completed, as my referances have already been interviewed etc., so I would think that if it was a problem they would've have sent it back right away.) Just wondering though.


----------



## DrSize

I am curious......I did the enhanced reliability check when you first apply.   Now I got offered a position as DEO infantry officer and accepted.   There was a long application(330-60) I had to fill out with previous employers, 3 references, and a neighbourhood reference.   It was 4 pages long, I assume this is for my level of security clearance???   What level do infantry officers require????


----------



## kincanucks

DrSize said:
			
		

> I am curious......I did the enhanced reliability check when you first apply.   Now I got offered a position as DEO infantry officer and accepted.   There was a long application(330-60) I had to fill out with previous employers, 3 references, and a neighbourhood reference.   It was 4 pages long, I assume this is for my level of security clearance???   What level do infantry officers require????



Level II - Secret


----------



## Canadian Sig

Just my two cents on how long it takes. I am a sig op and as such I have to have a level 3 clearance, and some of my compatriots are about to start their second 3 year contract and still havent recieved their clearance. In some trades it will not hold you back or keep you from joining. We had sig ops in Kabul who had'nt gotten their clearance yet and they still were doing their jobs.


----------



## kincanucks

Two different things here:

1. Enhanced Reliability Check (ERC) - covers the last five years in Canada only.   Internal checks (CFRC/D): Verification of personal data (including date of birth and address), Verification of relevant education and professional qualifications, and Verification of employment data.; external checks (DPM Sec 2 and RCMP): Criminal Records Name Check (CRNC) and Credit Check.   If everything is clean it takes 3-4 business days.   If there is a criminal hit then fingerprints are required to be taken and sent to RCMP through DPM Sec 2 and that can take 3-8 months depending on volume.   Credit hits will be addressed by the MCC and the time taken to clear up any hits depends solely on the applicant.   If the applicant has not lived in Canada for the last five years then the CFRC/D can request out of country checks and this requires fingerprints to be sent to RCMP through DPM Sec 2.   If the country(ies) that the checks are needed in have an agreement with the RCMP then everything goes smoothly (3-18 months) and if not (3-12 months) the RCMP through DPM Sec 2 will tell the CFRC/D that it can't be done and the applicant will have to wait until they have been in Canada for five years. FYI: the USA, South Africa and South Korea are examples of countries that don't have an agreement with the RCMP.

2. Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Check (Pre-Sec) - Will be conducted in the following cases:
a. An applicant has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately
prior to application. Applicants who were accompanying their parents while they were
employed outside Canada are not to be considered in this category.
b. The immediate relatives of applicants are currently residing in a country of security
concern or in a country with which Canada has non-amicable relations. An immediate
relative in this case includes a parent, sibling, spouse or parent-in-law.

(Pre-Enrolment) Security Clearance Pre-Assessment: The Security Clearance Pre-
Assessment is the actual processing of a security clearance when there are foreign implications that
relate to a CF applicant. To complete the Pre-Assessment all of the mandatory checks/procedures are
conducted to the security clearance level identified IAW the established requirements for the MOC for
which the applicant is being considered. The purpose of the Pre-Assessment is to minimize the threat
to security and at the same time improve the CF's effectiveness through the prevention of the human
resource losses which result when a member cannot subsequently be effectively employed because of
security clearance limitations.

It is important to note that an applicant must be granted Enhanced Reliability Status prior to the submission of a Pre-Sec.

Interpretation of Canadian Residency â â€œ Continuous 10 year Period: Defining Canadian residency has been a contentious issue for the past several years. Recent emails from DPM Sec 2 have clarified
processing direction for applicant's who present foreign implication concerns by leaving
Canada. The direction to be followed with regard to the processing of applicants who have not
remained in Canada for a continuous 10 year period is:
a. Traveling out of Canada on Vacation: No Security Clearance Pre-Assessment is
required for applicants who have traveled out of Canada for a period of less than 6
months, while retaining permanent Canadian residency for a minimum of 10 years prior
to application; and
b. Working or Studying Outside of Canada: Part I (Employment/Education) of the
TBS/SCT 330-60 (long form) does not identify a minimum time period for the processing of
applicants who leave the country and live in another country for work or academic study
reasons. As a result, any applicant who undertakes a work or academic placement
outside of Canada for any period of time requires a Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.

This process can take anywhere from 8 months to forever.   Normally the processing of an applicant who needs a Pre-Sec is as follows:

- Provides application;
- CFAT tested and if successfull, ERC is conducted;
- ERC is okay, applicant fills out long security form;
- Pre-Sec is submitted and waiting period begins.

The length of time taken depends on whether CSIS has an agreement with the country(ies) that the applicant is from or has worked in.   South Africa is an example of a country that there is no agreement with.   I don't know all of the countries we have agreements with so don't ask.   I do know that the PRe-Sec will normally (and I use that term loosely) will/may go more smoothly if the applicant is from/has worked in NATO countries.

So from above you can see that a number of things must be done and a number of things can go wrong when it comes to ERCs and Pre-Secs.   Every case is different and is applicant dependant.

If you have not been in Canada for the last ten continuous years then you are in for a long long wait.


----------



## ReadyAyeReady

For those of use who have lived outside of Canada for the last 10 years, is the longer wait a result of bureaucracy or is it just because it takes longer in an administrative sense?

I don't know...but when I hear about all these background checks and stuff I always get this picture of some CSIS employee with a stack of papers on his deask yay high who sees a clearance for someone who has lived overseas and says "oh no, not another one of these" and sticks it in the bottom of the pile.


----------



## Krazy Al

I have been thinking about joining and doing all the research I could for that past month and I finally decided to go to the recruiter today. I've been living in Canada for 8 years now and he told me that I have to have lived in Canada for at least 10 years or an additional security clearance check is required and that would take up to 2-3 year!!! .......whats that all about, what could possibly take that long and don't they do all of that before you move to Canada and become a Canadian citizen....which I am. I moved here when I was 8...8!!!!I can't believe they have to check if I had some kind of criminal record or whatever they are checking. He said it would be best if I waited until I've lived here for 10 year but either way I have to wait another 2 freaking years. Has anyone heard of this before because I've looked all over and this is the first time I've heard of this, if you have, is there anyway to get through it faster.


----------



## infamous_p

from what i know.. an enhanced security check doesnt take 2 to 3 years  ???

it will take longer than the standard but from what i've heard it doesnt take nearly that long..


who did you talk to about this?


----------



## infamous_p

excuse my second consecutive post here but.. where did you live prior to moving to canada?


----------



## kincanucks

Krazy Al said:
			
		

> I have been thinking about joining and doing all the research I could for that past month and I finally decided to go to the recruiter today. I've been living in Canada for 8 years now and he told me that I have to have lived in Canada for at least 10 years or an additional security clearance check is required and that would take up to 2-3 year!!! .......whats that all about, what could possibly take that long and don't they do all of that before you move to Canada and become a Canadian citizen....which I am. I moved here when I was 8...8!!!!I can't believe they have to check if I had some kind of criminal record or whatever they are checking. He said it would be best if I waited until I've lived here for 10 year but either way I have to wait another 2 freaking years. Has anyone heard of this before because I've looked all over and this is the first time I've heard of this, if you have, is there anyway to get through it faster.



Perhaps if you had done some searching here:

_Two different things here:

1. Enhanced Reliability Check (ERC) - covers the last five years in Canada only.  Internal checks (CFRC/D): Verification of personal data (including date of birth and address), Verification of relevant education and professional qualifications, and Verification of employment data.; external checks (DPM Sec 2 and RCMP): Criminal Records Name Check (CRNC) and Credit Check.  If everything is clean it takes 3-4 business days.  If there is a criminal hit then fingerprints are required to be taken and sent to RCMP through DPM Sec 2 and that can take 3-8 months depending on volume.  Credit hits will be addressed by the MCC and the time taken to clear up any hits depends solely on the applicant.  If the applicant has not lived in Canada for the last five years then the CFRC/D can request out of country checks and this requires fingerprints to be sent to RCMP through DPM Sec 2.  If the country(ies) that the checks are needed in have an agreement with the RCMP then everything goes smoothly (3-18 months) and if not (3-12 months) the RCMP through DPM Sec 2 will tell the CFRC/D that it can't be done and the applicant will have to wait until they have been in Canada for five years. FYI: the USA, South Africa and South Korea are examples of countries that don't have an agreement with the RCMP.

2. Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Check (Pre-Sec) - Will be conducted in the following cases:
a. An applicant has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately
prior to application. Applicants who were accompanying their parents while they were
employed outside Canada are not to be considered in this category.
b. The immediate relatives of applicants are currently residing in a country of security
concern or in a country with which Canada has non-amicable relations. An immediate
relative in this case includes a parent, sibling, spouse or parent-in-law.

(Pre-Enrolment) Security Clearance Pre-Assessment: The Security Clearance Pre-
Assessment is the actual processing of a security clearance when there are foreign implications that
relate to a CF applicant. To complete the Pre-Assessment all of the mandatory checks/procedures are
conducted to the security clearance level identified IAW the established requirements for the MOC for
which the applicant is being considered. The purpose of the Pre-Assessment is to minimize the threat
to security and at the same time improve the CF's effectiveness through the prevention of the human
resource losses which result when a member cannot subsequently be effectively employed because of
security clearance limitations.

It is important to note that an applicant must be granted Enhanced Reliability Status prior to the submission of a Pre-Sec.

Interpretation of Canadian Residency â â€œ Continuous 10 year Period: Defining Canadian residency has been a contentious issue for the past several years. Recent emails from DPM Sec 2 have clarified
processing direction for applicant's who present foreign implication concerns by leaving
Canada. The direction to be followed with regard to the processing of applicants who have not
remained in Canada for a continuous 10 year period is:
a. Traveling out of Canada on Vacation: No Security Clearance Pre-Assessment is
required for applicants who have traveled out of Canada for a period of less than 6
months, while retaining permanent Canadian residency for a minimum of 10 years prior
to application; and
b. Working or Studying Outside of Canada: Part I (Employment/Education) of the
TBS/SCT 330-60 (long form) does not identify a minimum time period for the processing of
applicants who leave the country and live in another country for work or academic study
reasons. As a result, any applicant who undertakes a work or academic placement
outside of Canada for any period of time requires a Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.

This process can take anywhere from 8 months to forever.  Normally the processing of an applicant who needs a Pre-Sec is as follows:

- Provides application;
- CFAT tested and if successfull, ERC is conducted;
- ERC is okay, applicant fills out long security form;
- Pre-Sec is submitted and waiting period begins.

The length of time taken depends on whether CSIS has an agreement with the country(ies) that the applicant is from or has worked in.  South Africa is an example of a country that there is no agreement with.  I don't know all of the countries we have agreements with so don't ask.  I do know that the PRe-Sec will normally (and I use that term loosely) will/may go more smoothly if the applicant is from/has worked in NATO countries.

So from above you can see that a number of things must be done and a number of things can go wrong when it comes to ERCs and Pre-Secs.  Every case is different and is applicant dependant.

If you have not been in Canada for the last ten continuous years then you are in for a long long wait._


----------



## George Wallace

It is pretty well true.   The Security check for everyone goes back ten years.   It is simplified if you have lived in one place in Canada, all of that time.   It becomes more complicated if you lived outside of Canada, even if you are a Canadian citizen (ie. how do they send someone to the back woods of some foreign country to interview your former neighbour).   Use a little bit of common sense and think about what they are doing - A SECURITY CHECK.


----------



## kincanucks

infamous_p said:
			
		

> from what i know.. an enhanced security check doesnt take 2 to 3 years   ???
> 
> it will take longer than the standard but from what i've heard it doesnt take nearly that long..
> 
> 
> who did you talk to about this?



He is not talking about the ERC he is referring to the Pre-Sec requirement.


----------



## Tpr.Orange

You are what is called a Pre Security Check. 

If you haven't lived in canada as a citizen for the past 10 years you are put on the pre security list. This means that there will be a minimum of a 2 year secuirty background check in to you history. This came into effect since September 11.


----------



## ROTP Applicant

CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> You are what is called a Pre Security Check.
> 
> If you haven't lived in canada as a citizen for the past 10 years you are put on the pre security list. This means that there will be a minimum of a 2 year secuirty background check in to you history. This came into effect since September 11.



Actually that's incorrect. I applied for ROTP last year and at that time I lived in Canada for 8 years and they didn't have to do the Pre-Sec check. I got a Level II Secret Clearance within 1 month of submitting my paperwork.


----------



## Big Foot

ROTP Applicant, it took me 6 months to receive my level II  after getting shipped to Saint-Jean and I have lived in Canada all my life. I find it hard to believe you got it in one month. Your application might have started being processed after one month, but I assure you, you will not have received your level II by now. From the time i finished putting paperwork into the time i got my level II was 11 months. Just to clarify things.


----------



## George Wallace

ROTP Applicant said:
			
		

> Actually that's incorrect. I applied for ROTP last year and at that time I lived in Canada for 8 years and they didn't have to do the Pre-Sec check. I got a Level II Secret Clearance within 1 month of submitting my paperwork.



You have me wondering what you are talking about if you posted this a couple of weeks ago:



			
				ROTP Applicant said:
			
		

> Say anything you want at the ROTP interview, BUT DO NOT LIE (not even a tiny bit). This is my second year applying to ROTP. I got into RMC Engineering last year as a MARE. I declined cause I'll go in only if i'm offered a pilot slot. So I'm reapplying this year as an undergraduate applicant. I've already done everything at the CFRC; now all I have to do is Aircrew Selection which is booked for March 7-11. So if you guys have any questions on the ROTP application process just PM me or post here and I'll try answer them.



If you come from a family that was serving overseas as part of the CF or Diplomatic Corps, your processing would be different.   However, as you claim in your post, you are not a current member of the CF, so I am wondering how you got your Level II Clearance?   Or is it because of your Father's/Mother's current Clearance?


----------



## kincanucks

ROTP Applicant said:
			
		

> Actually that's incorrect. I applied for ROTP last year and at that time I lived in Canada for 8 years and they didn't have to do the Pre-Sec check. I got a Level II Secret Clearance within 1 month of submitting my paperwork.



_a. An applicant has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately
prior to application. Applicants who were accompanying their parents while they were
employed outside Canada are not to be considered in this category._

Level II = hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## ROTP Applicant

I was under the impression that all officer candidates get a Level II Clearance. If not, then my mistake I guess i got Level I Clearance. But that's not the point. I got throught the check in one month and it wasn't 2-3 years years. I didn't even have to fill out the long Pre-Sec form and my parents were not originally from Canada either. I believe that the process was so short for me was because I arrived to Canada when I was under 16 and up until the end of last year the Pre-Sec form did not have to be completed if one arrived before the age of 16 and was a Canadian citizen.


----------



## Big Foot

ROTP Applicant, there is a big difference between security check and a security clearance. Security clearance allows you site access and the ability to read documents up to your level of clearance in certain situations where the information actually pertains to you.


			
				ROTP Applicant said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that all officer candidates get a Level II Clearance. If not, then my mistake I guess i got Level I Clearance. But that's not the point. I got throught the check in one month and it wasn't 2-3 years years.


As I said, it was simply a check. All officer cadets get their security clearance, however you do not have one since you were not sworn in and as a result, have yet to do IAP/BOTP. Your actual security clearance, from what I understand, begins processing after you get sent out for your initial posting, be it in St-Jean at the Mega or at prep year. The background check is to make sure that you're fine for them to continue processing and once you get accepted, they look into your background even more so as to give you your security clearance.


----------



## StormTrooper

I hear you Krazy... So far, I've been waiting for 9 months for the background check to be completed. From what I've been told it will take anywhere from 1 to 3 years. The amount of time varies significantly from one aplicant to another, depending on many factors. Those factors include how old you were when you came to Canada, how old you are now, the country you are from, etc.. My advice to you is that you should let them start running the background check on you asap. It shouldn't really take that long for it to be completed for you since you are still young. You are looking anywhere from 1 to 1.5 years.. Good luck
With that said, does anyone know how exactly they run the security check? As in, how they will get the information on me, and why it takes so long?


----------



## kincanucks

_With that said, does anyone know how exactly they run the security check? As in, how they will get the information on me, and why it takes so long? _           


I posted an answer to this some time ago.  Check the board.


----------



## dan476

I feel like I lucked out at least once in my life...
Moved to Canada in '99 from a scheduled country, applied for reserves in 2000 and got it in late 2000. My first security check took close to 8 months. As soon as i got in rules have changed to 10 years.


----------



## Krazy Al

I'm Russian but I moved here from Kazakhstan. Thanks for all your help guys. I still don't get it though...what do they expect to find on and 8 year old kid, thats so messed up. Can't believe it takes so long. And another thing, it says in the document Kincanucks posted up, number 2 at the bottom, something about you coming with with your parents, what does that mean, that if you came with your parents you don't need the check.


----------



## kincanucks

Krazy Al said:
			
		

> I'm Russian but I moved here from Kazakhstan. Thanks for all your help guys. I still don't get it though...what do they expect to find on and 8 year old kid, thats so messed up. Can't believe it takes so long. And another thing, it says in the document Kincanucks posted up, number 2 at the bottom, something about you coming with with your parents, what does that mean, that if you came with your parents you don't need the check.



_Applicants who were accompanying their parents while they were employed outside Canada are not to be considered in this category._ This means that if you are a Canadian citizen and your parents are Canadian citizens and one or both of them were working outside Canada and you, because you depend on them to live, were with them then you wouldn't require a Pre-Sec.


----------



## 2Lt_Burgie

Refer to the following document: (CFAO 49-10)

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-10_e.asp

Specifically to do with security checks; it states;
SECURITY CLEARANCE PRE-ASSESSMENT

3.          The purpose of a security clearance pre-assessment is to establish whether it is likely that an applicant will meet the
security standards for the assigned MOC

4.          A clearance pre-assessment is mandatory for applicants who will require a security clearance either during occupation
training or immediately upon employment following occupation training, and when:

          a.        (1)       the applicant is not a Canadian citizen;

                    (2)       the applicant was not born in Canada or has not resided in Canada for a 10-year period immediately
                              prior to enrolment;

                    (3)       the immediate relatives of the applicant were born, have resided, or are currently residing in a
                              scheduled country as defined in A-SJ-100-001/AS-000.

          b.        the applicant had previous service in the CF Regular or Reserve sub-components, or in the Supplementary Ready
                    Reserve element of the Supplementary Reserve; or

          c.        the applicant admits to a criminal conviction during the reliability check process.

5.          In addition to the circumstances described above -and-in keeping with the spirit of the security clearance pre-assessment
program, NDHQ/DG Secur/DSC (Director Security Clearance) encourages the initiation of pre-assessment requests by recruiting authorities
whenever circumstances cause reasonable doubt that an applicant will meet the basic security clearance standards for the assigned MOC.

6.          When a pre-assessment is required in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 5, the applicant shall not be enroled before the
security clearance pre-assessment is initiated and notification respecting the pre-assessment request is received from NDHQ/DG
Secur/DSC.

Hope that helps.


----------



## kincanucks

2Lt_Burgie said:
			
		

> Refer to the following document: (CFAO 49-10)
> 
> http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-10_e.asp
> 
> Specifically to do with security checks; it states;
> SECURITY CLEARANCE PRE-ASSESSMENT
> 
> 3.               The purpose of a security clearance pre-assessment is to establish whether it is likely that an applicant will meet the
> security standards for the assigned MOC
> 
> 4.               A clearance pre-assessment is mandatory for applicants who will require a security clearance either during occupation
> training or immediately upon employment following occupation training, and when:
> 
> a.            (1)           the applicant is not a Canadian citizen;
> 
> (2)           the applicant was not born in Canada or has not resided in Canada for a 10-year period immediately
> prior to enrolment;
> 
> (3)           the immediate relatives of the applicant were born, have resided, or are currently residing in a
> scheduled country as defined in A-SJ-100-001/AS-000.
> 
> b.            the applicant had previous service in the CF Regular or Reserve sub-components, or in the Supplementary Ready
> Reserve element of the Supplementary Reserve; or
> 
> c.            the applicant admits to a criminal conviction during the reliability check process.
> 
> 5.               In addition to the circumstances described above -and-in keeping with the spirit of the security clearance pre-assessment
> program, NDHQ/DG Secur/DSC (Director Security Clearance) encourages the initiation of pre-assessment requests by recruiting authorities
> whenever circumstances cause reasonable doubt that an applicant will meet the basic security clearance standards for the assigned MOC.
> 
> 6.               When a pre-assessment is required in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 5, the applicant shall not be enroled before the
> security clearance pre-assessment is initiated and notification respecting the pre-assessment request is received from NDHQ/DG
> Secur/DSC.
> 
> Hope that helps.



Damn I think I read that somewhere before, maybe earlier in the thread?


----------



## army_paralegal

I under stand that in the ERC, they confirm employment information.

Cna anyone tell me how exactly they do that. Do they call my employer?


----------



## kincanucks

army_paralegal said:
			
		

> I under stand that in the ERC, they confirm employment information.
> 
> Cna anyone tell me how exactly they do that. Do they call my employer?



We may if we have any suspicions about your reliability.  However, we do this only if absolutely necessary as we don't want get anyone in trouble at work because they haven't told their employers about their application.


----------



## army_paralegal

The recruiter needs the Questionnaire, Personnel Security Assessment form for the QYR. 

The form I currently have is labeled TBS/SCT 330-23E, which I assume is similar to the above form.

Do I have the right form? Are they the same form?


----------



## kincanucks

Personnel Screening, Consent and Authorization Form (TBS/SCT 330-23e) is the form you need to fill out with your addresses, birth date, names, etc.


----------



## Love793

The form has changed since the brochure was released.  Are you speaking of the black QYR brochure or the Recruiting Centre "Strong and Proud" one?


----------



## MdB

That's good news for me!! Since they do the pre-security check, hope this is also true for this check. My boss would kick me out of my job, he's anti-military to the bone. So I keep it quiet, really quiet.


----------



## army_paralegal

On one of the required sheets for recruiting, they ask for home addresses for the last ten years.

On that section, I list my last home address for ten years ago. The problem is, on the postal code, I got JUST ONE (The very last digit) of the postal code digits wrong.

My question is, is that a Problem because I just handed in my application.


----------



## -rb

I'd say inform the recruiting center of your error as soon as possible and make the proper amendments, no harm in that is there?

Also, just in case you need it for future reference you can go to the Canada Post website to search for old postal codes, came in handy when i filled in my app before sending it off. http://www.canadapost.com/

cheers.


----------



## Meridian

I wouldn't worry about it. For one thing, that isnt used for your Enhanced Reliability, and they are just checking in the database against stuff already recorded anyway.


----------



## army_paralegal

Just curious, How are they conducted exactly?

What is the procedure they go through?

I just handed in my application yesterday at the Fort York armoury and am just waiting for a testing date.

Also, for the interview stage, any advice?


----------



## kincanucks

army_paralegal said:
			
		

> On one of the required sheets for recruiting, they ask for home addresses for the last ten years.
> 
> On that section, I list my last home address for ten years ago. The problem is, on the postal code, I got JUST ONE (The very last digit) of the postal code digits wrong.
> 
> My question is, is that a Problem because I just handed in my application.



They need the correct postal code of your current address to submit the background check.


----------



## CrashBear

Depending on the position applied for they check previous asscociates and human reliability factors.


----------



## kincanucks

CrashBear said:
			
		

> Depending on the position applied for they check previous asscociates and human reliability factors.



The enhanced reliability check is the same for every applicant. Criminal and credit checks.  Confirmation of education, birth, references, addresses and employment.

Perhaps you are referring to the extra reference checks we have to do for CIC applicants?


----------



## bmacd

Hi, looking for some info on the fingerprint check. I lived in Japan for 2 years (2002-2004) and will be applying to have my enhanced reliabilty check done soon. What I'm wondering is, will they definately ask for a fingerprint check because I was overseas for 2 of the last 5 years? Has anyone been in this situtation and NOT been asked for fingerprints? I saw one poster say they "can" ask, and the gov't website says it "is required". I don't have a criminal record and have no problem with doing it, I'm just a little concerned about the time involved..13 months!! Is there any way to speed things up? I've got friends in japan (who are japanese), and could deliver the forms or something directly if I mailed them over..although they probably won't go for that


----------



## Pieman

I was not asked for finger prints, but I had a previous security clearance from government employment where they did ask me for them. So not sure. 

Either way, finger prints are not an issue. If they need them they will ask for them. You can get your finger prints taken by the recruiting center or and local police station will take them for a small fee. It won't hold up your file. 

I also lived outside Canada for two years in a NATO country and my clearance took 8 months long. There is nothing you can do to speed it up, believe me I looked into everything.


----------



## oittoi

I don't think you can ask your friend to get police clearance certificate for you, if that's what you're thinking.  I'm now in Japan too and the police told me I will have to come back here myself to get the form in the future when I apply for the reserves, or that I'll have to leave everything for the Canadian embassy and the military to do the check, which will take a long long loooong time... I thought about getting the certificate right before leaving here and bring it to Canada, but they say I first need an official form from the CF that says I need that form for security clearance, which I can't.  Too complicated, now I just gave up.  I don't think there's anyway you can speed things up, as Pieman said.


----------



## kincanucks

bmacd said:
			
		

> Hi, looking for some info on the fingerprint check. I lived in Japan for 2 years (2002-2004) and will be applying to have my enhanced reliabilty check done soon. What I'm wondering is, will they definately ask for a fingerprint check because I was overseas for 2 of the last 5 years? Has anyone been in this situtation and NOT been asked for fingerprints? I saw one poster say they "can" ask, and the gov't website says it "is required". I don't have a criminal record and have no problem with doing it, I'm just a little concerned about the time involved..13 months!! Is there any way to speed things up? I've got friends in japan (who are japanese), and could deliver the forms or something directly if I mailed them over..although they probably won't go for that



_Out of Country CRNC: In order for DPM Secur 2 to be able to conduct international criminal records checks a completed set of fingerprints must be submitted to DPM Secur 2 who in turn forwards them to the RCMP. The RCMP then liaises with their respective police counterparts through INTERPOL. It is important to note that this process can take anywhere from several months to in excess of one year to complete, and in some cases the checks may be extremely difficult or even impossible to conduct/obtain in some countries._

The recruiting centre will arrange for the fingerprints to be taken at the local MP Det.  As an example I had an applicant who worked in South Korea for a year during the last five years and it took one year for them to tell me that they couldn't do the checks because there is no agreement with South Korea to do criminal checks on each other's citizens.


----------



## aesop081

kincanucks said:
			
		

> The recruiting centre will arrange for the fingerprints to be taken at the local MP Det.   As an example I had an applicant who worked in South Korea for a year during the last five years and it took one year for them to tell me that they couldn't do the checks because there is no agreement with South Korea to do criminal checks on each other's citizens.



Just out of curiosity, what happens in those cases ?  Can the application go forward ?


----------



## kincanucks

oittoi said:
			
		

> Yes, what happens then?   I have residence record in South Korea and Japan as well.   Kincanaucks's post just freaked me out!   What happened to that guy eventually?      :'(



_A reliability screening is a systematic method of confirming that an individual can be expected to be reliable and trustworthy in the performance of duties and in the protection of the assets and interests of the CF and its personnel. The Reliability Check is a distinct and separate process identified by the Government Security Policy (GSP) and is not to be confused with the Security Clearance process. The Enhanced Reliability Status (ERS) is a mandatory condition of enrolment in the Canadian Regular and Reserve Force and as such will be conducted on all applicants processed by the CFRCs/Dets (including component transfer applicants) (Ref. NDSP Ch 35 35.12 & 35.40).

Approving authorities for conferral or denial of Enhanced Reliability Status regarded as a condition of enrolment in the Canadian Forces are the Recruiting Centres' commanding officers, detachment commanders and commanding officers of enrolling Units. Any delegation of this authority to another officer of the unit must be made in writing.

Checks to be conducted must be identified on the Personnel Screening Consent and Authorization Form (TBS 330-23, Rev. 2002/07) and must include the following:
Verification of personal data (including date of birth and address).
Verification of relevant education and professional qualifications.
Verification of employment data.
Criminal Records Name Check (CRNC).
Credit Check.
The verification of employment data and the reference checks must cover the previous five continuous years. A decision to grant Enhanced Reliability Status must be based on adequate information. Where such information does not exist, or cannot be obtained, ERS cannot be granted. The reliability screening procedure shall not be initiated until the applicant provides consent by completing, signing and dating Section C and initialing rows 1-7 of the Personnel Screening Consent and Authorization Form.

Informing the Applicant: Individuals who will be the subject of a reliability screening shall, prior to its commencement, be informed of the following:
a. That their previous employment, personal history as well as educational and professional qualifications will be subject to verification;
b. The possible consequences of this verification where false or misleading statements have been made (i.e., denial of ERS);
c. That they will be given an opportunity by the approving authority to explain adverse information before a decision is rendered;
d. That the approving authority will provide the reason why the individual is being denied Enhanced Reliability Status (unless the information is exempt under the Privacy Act); and
e. That recourse is available through normal civilian redress mechanisms such as appeal to the Canadian Human Rights Commission.

Criminal Records Name Check (CRNC): In order to determine whether the applicant has in the past committed crimes that would indicate unacceptable risk in relation to the duties to be performed, a criminal record check will be conducted and fingerprints submitted after the conditional offer of employment (COE) is signed by the applicant. DPM Secur 2 provides assistance in the Reliability Screening process by conducting the CRNC and then returning the results of these checks to the CFRC/Det in order to assist the ERS approval authority in determining the applicant's reliability. It is important to note that the results of these checks will only cover the period for which the applicant has resided in Canada, because the Canadian Police Identification Centre (CPIC) data bank contains info/data for residents of Canada only. The following CRNC guidelines apply: 
a. For all reliability screening, a declaration shall be obtained as to whether an individual has been convicted of a criminal offence for which a pardon has not been granted. The Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination with respect to employment based on a pardoned conviction. Further, the Criminal Records Act specifies that no application form or employment documentation within the federal civil service, a Crown Corporation, the Canadian Forces or any business within federal legislative authority shall contain any question requiring a pardon recipient to reveal a pardoned conviction.   Therefore, care must be taken not to inquire about a criminal offence for which a pardon has been granted.
b. The existence of a criminal record can be but need not be sufficient grounds to deny reliability status. A criminal record should be considered in light of such matters as the nature and frequency of the behaviour or offence, the duties and tasks to be performed, the probable access to designated information or assets, the passage of time, and the possibility that only a portion of the activity has been identified or reported.
c. The approving authority will need to determine both the person's attitude towards the unpardoned offence(s) and the extent to which the applicant has changed behaviour in this regard, and the likely recurrence of similar offenses and their potential effect upon job reliability.
d. The Criminal Code of Canada, Section 748(3), prohibits anyone who has been convicted of an offence under Section 135, Frauds on the Government; Section 124, Selling or Purchasing Office; or Section 418, Selling Defective Stores to her Majesty, from holding public office, unless a pardon has been granted.
e. Applicants who have been convicted of a Sexual Misconduct offence under the Criminal Code or the Code of Service Discipline may only be enrolled with a waiver from Comd CFRG. CFAO 19-36 defines sexual misconduct as an act, which has a sexual purpose or is of a sexual or indecent nature. Examples of sexual misconduct include, but are not limited to; sexual activity between consenting adults under prohibited circumstances, sexual abuse of a child, incest, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, indecent exposure and bestiality. COs of CFRCs will forward waiver requests to CFRG attention RPSO for staffing. Waiver requests will include details of the offence as well as substantiation for granting the waiver. Substantiation should include the outcome of treatment if applicable, as well as the results of reference checks and any other information relevant to the case.
f. Due to the fact that checks conducted with external depts/agencies (CSIS, RCMP, and Credit Bureau of Canada) can be done via electronic interface only, all requests for a CRNC will be submitted to DPM Secur 2 using DND's Security Clearance Processing System (SCPS).

Denial of Enhanced Reliability Status: In arriving at a reliability screening decision, officials are expected to provide a fair and objective assessment that respects the rights of the individual. Individuals must be given an opportunity to explain adverse information before a decision is reached. Unless the information is exempt under the Privacy Act, individuals must be given the reasons why they have been denied reliability status. Information bearing on the reliability of applicants is sensitive information. This information, together with the identity of the sources, shall be protected in accordance with the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act.

Right to Redress: The individual is also to be advised of the right to redress. Applicants to the CF may complain to the Canadian Human Rights Commission, the Public Service Commission's Investigations Directorate or the Federal Court, Trial Division, according to the specifics of each case._

All this to say that if the approving authority does not have sufficient information in which to determine an individual's reliability then they can deny that individual Enhanced Reliability Status.   If the individual redresses the decision then it only makes sense that the individual will have to prove their reliability and to do that they will have to provide the missing information.

PS Another important point to consider is that if you have to get pass the ERS phase to move on to the pre-sec phase which will take even longer to complete.


----------



## bmacd

Hmm..has anyone heard of a case where these fingerprints were not required? Maybe they didnt see anything else during my check that aroused suspicion, so they decided to grant it based on that.. Kincanucks, you seem to be an authority on this matter..any thoughts? Any chance at all  a verbal request could be made to the overseas country? You'd think that, considering I have a western name and lived in a foreign country, it would be very easy to spot if I had a record for anything. Ugh..this is very depressing. I was hoping to get the ball rolling on this soon, and now I might have to wait a year..just to find out they couldn't do the check!!  :crybaby:


----------



## Pvt_masooD

:-\ I am a grade 11 student in Toronto, Ont. and I have the intention to join the Royal Military College after high school. I thought it would be wise to begin BMQ training this summer and recently recieved my application form for the 25th Service Battalion. I came across the Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment sheet with discern, as I have not resided in Canada continuously for the past 10 years (more like 6 years 9 months). On the document it states that processing could take a further 6 to 18 months, which would be a major setback for my application for BMQ & SQ this summer as well as my future application to RMC.

Any ideas? Thanks for the input


----------



## Tpr.Orange

why not call me ... the 25 service battalion recruiter... 

Have you resided outside of Canada because you were accompanying your parents for work purposes?

If so, you will be able to skip the pre security assessment.

Have you lived in Canada for 10 years, but not consecutivley?


----------



## Pvt_masooD

CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> why not call me ... the 25 service battalion recruiter...
> 
> Have you resided outside of Canada because you were accompanying your parents for work purposes?
> 
> If so, you will be able to skip the pre security assessment.
> 
> Have you lived in Canada for 10 years, but not consecutivley?



lol Whoa, what were the odds of that  Thank you for your reply. No, I resided in Sydney Australia before moving to Toronto in August of '98. It seems I'm in a bit of a pickle with this one. Out of curiousity, your rank, sir? I recieved my recruitment information from MCpl Singh a week ago


----------



## George Wallace

Check out a few of our threads on that question:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28931.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29187.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29398.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25272.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20990.0.html

And there are more, just use the Search Function up top there and you should find answers to questions you have yet to ask.


----------



## ROTP Applicant

I have to fill out a Security Clearance Form (TBS/SCT 330-60E; Rev. 2002/07). I have the paper version of it, however I am wondering if there is also a PDF version of the form (and yes I did a search). Thanks in advance.


----------



## aesop081

all the security clearance forms can be filled put online if you have DIN access. Thats how i filled out my level 3 application.  Clerks should be able to point you in the right direction for that.  Thast what was done for me.


----------



## kincanucks

bmacd said:
			
		

> Hmm..has anyone heard of a case where these fingerprints were not required? Maybe they didnt see anything else during my check that aroused suspicion, so they decided to grant it based on that.. Kincanucks, you seem to be an authority on this matter..any thoughts? Any chance at all   a verbal request could be made to the overseas country? You'd think that, considering I have a western name and lived in a foreign country, it would be very easy to spot if I had a record for anything. Ugh..this is very depressing. I was hoping to get the ball rolling on this soon, and now I might have to wait a year..just to find out they couldn't do the check!!   :crybaby:



Go back to my other posts. If the person deciding if you should be given a ERS doesn't have all the information what do think he/she should do?   From your original post you have only been back in the country for one year? If it was me trying to decide then you prove to me that you didn't have any legal problems while you were outside Canada and you are good to go.   If not you are SOL and nobody from a CFRC/D is going to phoning overseas to check you out.   Good luck.


----------



## kincanucks

ROTP Civi U said:
			
		

> I have to fill out a Security Clearance Form (TBS/SCT 330-60E; Rev. 2002/07). I have the paper version of it, however I am wondering if there is also a PDF version of the form (and yes I did a search). Thanks in advance.



Go here and look under security:

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/tbsf-fsct_e.asp


----------



## bmacd

Kincanucks, cheers.. appreciate your input on this..well aside from showing my passport to prove I wasn't deported for anything, I can't think of any ways to prove I didn't have any legal trouble overseas..unless I tried to organize and have something sent from Japan ASAP and pre-empt any concerns. Although another poster mentioned he considered that but they wouldn't go for it. Unless you've seen something in your experience that other applicants have done, because I'm out of ideas   Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and settle in for the long wait..


----------



## kincanucks

Dirt Digger said:
			
		

> I was never finger printed during the recruiting process (from Res to Reg), but did have it all done in St-Jean when they took my ID photo.



I am sorry but what the heck does whether you had to be fingerprinted during the recruiting process have anything to do with this thread?  Where you outside the country also?


----------



## Charlie

Hey All:

This is a question for Kincanucks or any that may be able to answer this question.  I am currently awaiting the return of my medical file, and was wondering what getting a US/Cdn Dual citizenship would do to my application process.  Or how it would affect me if i got it after i entered the army.  My Dad is an American citizen, as are the rest of his side of the family.  My Dad lives in Canada but the rest of his side of the family are all in the United States.  Also my Dad served 3 years in the American Air Force, my Uncle served 3 years in the US Navy and my Grandpa served 3 years in the second world war.   I thought that might be relevant considering I'm joining the Canadian Army Reg Forces, and that was all in the United States.  Would this maybe be something I could phone the recruiting centre to enquire about.  Any info would be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  Cheers


----------



## kincanucks

As long as you have your Canadian citizenship it doesn't matter.


----------



## Charlie

So it wouldn't be a bad thing, it would be okay to go ahead and get it?  And do you know if the United States would ever be able to then draft me in the future (that is if they ever re-instated that law).


----------



## kincanucks

_ And do you know if the United States would ever be able to then draft me in the future (that is if they ever re-instated that law).     _ 

See post further down.


----------



## Mike_NavRes

PM'ing was the route to take.  My apologies.


----------



## kincanucks

Mike_NavRes said:
			
		

> I have the upmost respect for all the help Kincanucks has given to this website, but wow, I think that was an honest question asked by a rookie who is new to all of this, and that didn't require such a sarcastic and mean spirited answer.   If you are so sick of questions you deem "stupid", then why even respond to them Kincanucks.   At least someone else can have a chance to answer with respect to the new guys on this website.   We want the questions to keep flowing, because even if some senior level guys think they are worthless and stupid, others such as myself my be thinking that same question in my mind.
> 
> I hope I didnt cross the line for the directors, but I believe a mature comment was needed,
> 
> Thanks for reading



Did I say it was stupid?  However, I did reread the post and I honestly didn't notice the question.  In fact I first thought it was a statement.  However, I don't need your crap or your mature comments and I certainly don't want your respect.  Next time try the PM route.

To Charlie;

It is not possible for another country to draft someone who is legally serving in the military of another country.  So I don't think you have anything to worry about.  Good Luck.


----------



## TCBF

" is not possible for another country to draft someone who is legally serving in the military of another country.  So I don't think you have anything to worry about.  Good Luck."

Even Reserves?  Knew a guy in the 70s in the mo, might have been declared NEF, then went back to Italy - where he was born - and they said "Just in time, Nino!"  They got'im.  Cyprus 78/79, guys ran into Turk soldiers who were Canadian duals who went back to Turkey for a visit and...

Man, what a shock, a spoiled Cdn tourist one day, a Turkish conscript the next.  In the 70s, no less.

Tom


----------



## kincanucks

I heard of China  doing it too but I don't think the US would do it.


----------



## Tpr.Orange

I have a dual citizenship with the states, and i had no problems, except the odd american joke.


----------



## Big Foot

I'm dual Canada/Ireland and again, no problems there.


----------



## 48Highlander

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Did I say it was stupid?   However, I did reread the post and I honestly didn't notice the question.   In fact I first thought it was a statement.   However, I don't need your crap or your mature comments and I certainly don't want your respect.   Next time try the PM route.
> 
> To Charlie;
> 
> It is not possible for another country to draft someone who is legally serving in the military of another country.   So I don't think you have anything to worry about.   Good Luck.



Eh, you might wanna double-check on that chief.  They wouldn't worry about tracking your ass down, no, but it's quite possible for them to draft you.  I know of several Serb-Canadians who were "drafted" during that war while serving in the CF.  Ofcourse, none of them even bothered to respond, let alone actually go and serve, but they did receive the notice.  If by some miracle the US ever instituted the draft again, the same thing could theoreticaly happen.

Now, Charlie, this is a bit of a silly thing to worry about.  The US isn't going to bring back the draft, and even if they did it would more than likely be based on the same system as the vietnam-era draft, which means there's a good chance your name would never get picked.


----------



## TCBF

And even if you did get drafted, what the heck is wrong with actually showing up and doing your duty?

Accept the responsibility, or relinquish your citizenship.

Tom


----------



## Meridian

TCBF - I think the idea is that you are already doing your duty to the one country  (ie serving canada).  But I appreciate your moral ideal... its just that people do not think about moral ideals anymore. They think about what would be best for them.

But thats another topic.


----------



## SwissTrooper

Hi everyone,

Well, I got a little story pertaining to being a dual citizen, namely swiss and Canadian. I went to Switzerland in 03 because I spent my early years there and wanted to check out learning opportunities. Since my stay was undetermined length I registered with an address with some family. So about a couple of weeks after I was there I got a letter to  go for a three day selection process to determine my suitably for the army! ;D 
So I got entered to serve the country last July for 18 weeks leading horses through mountains. lol So my temporay job experience turned into an army experience! Was pretty neat, except the fact that my finaces hurt , about 40 bucks a day minus tax and other stuff.
Yeah so if journeying to your other country you are part of, definitely check out their service policy.

One question though while I'm at it. I am back in Canada now and want to apply to the Forces. Anyone know if theres any penalty aside having the pre security check done for having been in a foreign army?

Later All


----------



## TCBF

I don't think you will have any trouble with your Swiss Army experience.

How did you like the SG 552? Or whatever.

Do you still have to qual on the range once a year?  The Swiss in Edmonton use the Spruce Grove Gun Club for that.  I think the consulate brings in a container load of ammo once a year.

Swiss Trooper, any good contacts you could use to get more info on this?

Tom


----------



## Justinrc

I went into the Recruting office and the recruiting officer gave me a application, he said that I have to have 2 references knowing each atleast 5 years.  Problem is that I can't find anyone Iv known for 5 years accept friends and family which i was told I can not use.  I tryed to call the recruiting officer at 310-ARMY  but the number is not in use, i called the operator and she can't find a number either.  I don't have much time to go down to the recruiting office.  Does anyone know what I can use for references.  The recruting office is in Calgary at the Mewata armouries.  Im applying for the army reserves.

Thanks alot


----------



## D-n-A

You can use teachers, employers, etc as references. Contact number for the CFRC in Calgary is
CFRC Calgary
Suite 245, 220-4th Ave SE
Calgary, AB
T2G 4X3

Phone : (403) 974-2920
Fax : (403) 974-2896

Email : calgary@recruiting.dnd.ca


----------



## Fideo

Hey Cpl Bloggins or anyone else....I noticed that you registered in Oct 30th, 2003 and you have 2 years military experience. How many times do they check your security clearance or references. Is it something that has to be continuously reviewed regardless of military experience ?. Wish I could help you with your question but I'm just applying right now thats why I'm asking. Thanks


----------



## garb811

Depending on the level of clearance granted, it is updated at 5 years or 10 years.  Your file can also be reviewed outside these time periods "for cause".


----------



## Lan

I had to fill out the long form too for the same reason.  Just make sure you keep checking with your CFRC once you submit it.  They lost mine twice which really delayed the process.  I applied almost 2 years ago and I am still waiting.


----------



## Fideo

They lost it....ahhh thats not cool. I'm not looking forward to that part of the process of enrolment. However, it is understandable considering the mounds of files they have and have to update. 2 years is a real long time though, sorry to hear that. Is that long form your speaking of the same as the application process form. Cheers


----------



## Lan

It is the long security clearance form.  I was out of the country for over a year so they said I had to fill in the long form which could take up to 6 months to process.    I applied in August of 03 and it finally came back in March 05.  So, now I am just waiting for them to finish up with my file and get me on the merit list.   Hopefully that will happen soon.


----------



## Fideo

Is it because you went to a country longer than 6 months that has security sensitivity issues with Canada ? Anyways.....hang in there. Im sure you will be merit listed soon.


----------



## MdB

Lan said:
			
		

> It is the long security clearance form.   I was out of the country for over a year so they said I had to fill in the long form which could take up to 6 months to process.



The so-called long security clearance form is in fact a pre-security clearance form and it clearly stat that the process can take *up to 2 years* to be completed. Because it's outside of Canada, DND can't tell you how long it will be, because they don't do this part of the process, but ask to the foreign governent to verify this and that info.



			
				Fideo said:
			
		

> Is it because you went to a country longer than 6 months that has security sensitivity issues with Canada ?



The pre-security form is mandatory for applicants who resided outside of Canada more than 6 months in the last 10 years, which is considered as a leave from Canada from various federal departments.


Here's some info from CSIS, the government agency processing all screenings (http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/eng/operat/ss_e.html):


> Government Screening
> 
> The Government Screening Program provides security assessments for all government departments and institutions, with the exception of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The Service also has a site access program for airports, the Parliamentary Precinct and nuclear power stations. These programs assist in enhancing security and reducing the potential threat from terrorist groups and foreign governments which seek advantage from gaining access to classified information or other assets and materiel. Since September 11, the demand for CSIS advice has risen dramatically.
> 
> The majority of Government Screening resources are devoted to federal government departments. Under the Government Security Policy (GSP), federal employees, members of the Armed Forces or persons under contract to a government department who in the performance of their duties have access to classified government assets or information, are required to hold security clearances.
> 
> There are three levels of security clearance as defined by the GSP: Confidential (Level I), Secret (Level II) and Top Secret (Level III). The level of security clearance required is determined by the need for access to classified information or assets in the performance of duties associated with an individual's employment.
> 
> Level I and II security clearance requests, which are conducted electronically, require checks in CSIS data banks. Most result in a recommendation to grant the clearance being made to the Departmental or Agency Security Officer (DSO/ASO). Further enquiries including an interview with the subject or a full field investigation may be required at times, if the process reveals questionable information. A full field investigation is required for all Level III security clearances.
> 
> A field investigation includes CSIS records checks, the interview of friends, neighbours and employers, local police checks and possibly an interview of the applicant. During the course of the enquiries, every effort is made to explain the purpose of the questions being posed and participation in the interviews is voluntary.
> 
> The security screening process may reveal significant information which would lead CSIS to recommend that the requested clearance be denied. In other cases, CSIS may advise the DSO/ASO of information which, while being of concern, may be insufficient to warrant a recommendation to deny, but would nevertheless require departmental attention and appropriate action. While the Service assists the originating department by providing an assessment of the individual's reliability and loyalty to Canada, under the GSP, all departments have exclusive authority to grant or deny security clearances.
> 
> In 2003-2004, CSIS received 37,327 requests for site and airport access. A total of 37,508 security clearance requests were received for government departments and agencies including the Department of National Defence (DND). For areas of the federal government, other than DND, the median time required to process Level I applications was seven days. Level II applications required 11 days to process while Level III took 82 days. Times required for DND were 20, 18 and 96 days respectively.
> 
> Foreign Screening
> 
> CSIS has reciprocal screening agreements with the governments of foreign states, foreign agencies and international organizations which provide them with security assessments. These agreements are all approved by the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness after consultation with Foreign Affairs Canada.
> 
> All persons affected by this procedure provide their agreement in advance. The requests for foreign screening typically fall within two categories: database checks and enquiries on Canadian residents wishing to take up residence in another country; or field checks and enquiries on former and current Canadian residents who are being considered for classified access in another country.
> 
> In 2003-2004, the Service received and processed 1,208 requests for security assessments in its Foreign Screening Program.


----------



## kincanucks

_The pre-security form is mandatory for applicants who resided outside of Canada more than 6 months in the last 10 years_

Actually if you leave the country to work or study for any length of time then a pre-sec is required.  If you are out of the country on vacation longer than six months then a pre-sec is required.


----------



## Blunt Object

How in-depth does the military check you out? I know they do the backround check/ security check. DO they contact any of the people from your letter of refrences, or if you put down cadet experience do they check with your former CO's or anything of the sort. Thiis is all out of curriosity so its not that important. 

 Thanks


----------



## Navalsnpr

Blunt Object said:
			
		

> How in-depth does the military check you out?


Depends on the trade you are applying for. Each trade has a different requirement.



			
				Blunt Object said:
			
		

> Do they contact any of the people from your letter of references, or if you put down cadet experience do they check with your former CO's or anything of the sort.


Yes. When I joined they visited all my references, my old CO, my family members and neighbors.

They must complete a thourough check and normally always do.


----------



## FredDaHead

Actually, according to the French "Formulaire d'Autorisation de Securite":


> Les personnes mentionnées aux fins de références doivent être des collègues, des pairs et des amis qui vous connaissent bien depuis plus de trois ans (...)
> Les personnes mentionnées aux fins de références Ne peuvent PAS être des parents (...)



SO, friends can count as references, but not your family. And it's three years, not five. I'd assume, however, that putting in only your friends might be a bad idea, but that's just a guess.


----------



## Pvt_masooD

I'm a 17-year-old recruit, & I'm trying to join the reserves, & eventually the regular forces after finishing school. The application process requires a Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance for applicants who havent been in Canada for 10 years straight. It seems a bit strange that the Federal Government would need to investigate my past before entry to Canada - I was 10 when I came to Toronto from Sydney, Australia. Like many other I'm required to go through this lengthy process (6 months to 3 years) even though we were just kids when we came to Canada. It doesnt really seem fair to the high school kids who've adopted Canada as their home, and who want to make a career for themselves in the Canadian military. Personally I'd like to see reform in the recruiting process; many of my colleagues who were in the same boat eventually got turned off by this road block & lost interest in joining up. I'll soon be visiting my M.P. (member of parliament  ) to see what can be done about this. I'd like to get some feedback from the Army.ca community about this matter.

Thanks for contributing.

Capt. Crunchy (wanna-be pte.)


----------



## BDTyre

You bring up a good point.

Just an observation - my regiment has a Sergeant who is on loan from the Brits (at least I assume so, as I haven't had a chance to talk to him).  However, if he decided to emigrate to Canada, no doubt if he wanted to resume his position with the regiment, he would need to become a Canadian citizen and undergo a thorough background check first despite having already served with the unit.

Such is the way of bureaucracy.


----------



## GO!!!

I empathise with your predicament, but, the screenings are a necessary evil for the foreign born.

Look at it this way. What if you were born in oh, say, country X, where you were a torture chamber technician/drug lord/really bad dude, and you moved to Canada and joined our army. How embarrasing and problematic for the army would it be, and the government in general, to find out that such a person was on the government payroll in the defence of our nation? Or that perhaps you were a war criminal in our military?

Some nations don't allow foreigners to join at all or only certain units - so count yourself lucky you can still follow your career path of choice!

and dont give up, a career in the army is worth it!


----------



## paracowboy

meh, don't sweat it. Everybody gets some level of security check done on them. It gets worse once you're actually in, and are going to certain courses or units. Roll with it. As GO!! put it, imagine the consequences if the Gov't didn't do this. Luck with your enlistment.


----------



## scottyeH?

Before I even start, I would like to say I just finished searching for answer's I was looking for on FAQ and Searching about Relability Checks, needless to say I couldn't find them.

What processes actually happening when all this is being done? saying it takes (3months-onwards...and I know it's a lot of work) But what actually makes it take so long. I'm a Canadian Citzen born and raised. 

I don't understand how it TAKES that long to pull your name up on the computer and see no past "record" on you and it still manages to make you WAIT and WAIT and WAIT. There has to be something else too it.

Please don't flame me  :'( haha.


----------



## kincanucks

The Enhanced Reliability Check (ERC) if you are clean (no credit or criminal hits) takes two to three business days.


----------



## 45506445210414924

just skimming on through this article and thought id ask here, cfrc is about to do my background check and well I'm in debt like 1000$ Ive worked it out with the credit beaurue company's and managed to arrange monthly payments, is this going to affect my chances of "clearing" the CF's minimum requirements for background checks??  

lame question indeed yes, but maybe this has happend to someone else while going through the recruiting stages?


----------



## DogOfWar

Mike F said:
			
		

> just skimming on through this article and thought id ask here, cfrc is about to do my background check and well I'm in debt like 1000$ Ive worked it out with the credit beaurue company's and managed to arrange monthly payments, is this going to affect my chances of "clearing" the CF's minimum requirements for background checks??
> 
> lame question indeed yes, but maybe this has happend to someone else while going through the recruiting stages?



I have alot more debt than that and it wasnt an issue. if you are owning up to your debts and making payments its not an issue.. Unless they determine that you cant afford to join the military...1000 bucks is nothing.


----------



## 45506445210414924

Thanks BeadWindow, 

im going to actually ask the recruiting officer later on in my interview the same question, explain to them before i head on in and let them know ahead of time, and well 1000$ is pretty big for me considering im 19 live on my own, car insurance and payments etc. since ive quit smoking though i roughly save 130$ a month!!!! 

but anyways thanks again for the reply


----------



## Pvt_masooD

Thanks for the replies guys;

GO!!!, of course there should be an effective screening process, its just that right now it includes the youngest age bracket, making it very, very difficult for forgein born high school guys to join up. I read somewhere that up to the end of last year, the applicants who were under 16 when they arrived in Canada were exempt from the Pre-Sec. Is this true? If so, why was the policy eradicated?

I'm not asking for much of a change or elimination of the security clearance, just some leniance for high school recruits who want to _go army_ for a living.


----------



## kincanucks

Some good news.

There are some significant changes coming to the National Defence Security Policy and in the meantime CFRG has decided to adopt some interim policies with regards to pre-secs.   If you are a Canadian citizen and have lived in Canada for a ten year continuous period or to the age of 16, whichever comes first then you will not require a pre-sec, unless you come from a scheduled country or have immediate relatives living in a scheduled country.

The big change is for Canadians who decide to leave the country to study or work.   If you are out of the country for less than 180 consecutive days then you do not require a pre-sec.   For example if you leave the country to work and you are gone for 3 months and you return to Canada you don't need a pre-sec and if you leave the country again the 180 days starts over again.   If you are out of country for 180 consecutive days or more than a pre-sec is required unless you worked in Canadian government job such as an Embassy.

Now if you have already been submitted for a pre-sec and you fall under the aforementioned changes then your CFRC/D will be sending your information to CFRG for review and your pre-sec may be ceased and you will be allowed to continue processing.   If you want me to review your particular situation, just PM me with the details.   Cheers.


----------



## ReadyAyeReady

I was talking to someone at CFRC Vancouver today and they were saying that the CF's policy with respect to background/security checks has recently changed for those applicants who went overseas to study.  The person was saying that if an applicant was out of the country at university then they may not have to fill out the "long" security form.  They have to clear it with the powers that be, so I am guessing this is done on a case by case basis.  The reason I say this is because I was in the UK at uni for a year and I was told that I might not have to fill out the "long form."  They said they had to clear it with their superiors first but hinted that since I was there for university that it may not be that big of a deal.

Can anyone shed some light on this?  Is this some new policy like they said?


----------



## Pieman

Hey ReadyAyeReady,

I believe Kincanucks made a post about that not too long ago. From what I recall, the stipulation was that you had to have been outside the country for no more than 180 days at a time. Either way, check into it and see if you qualify.

EDIT:  Found it.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31113/post-221799.html#msg221799


----------



## invno1

So let me get this straight when kincanucks says, 

"_If you are a Canadian citizen and have lived in Canada for a ten year continuous period or to the age of 16, whichever comes first then you will not require a pre-sec, unless you come from a scheduled country or have immediate relatives living in a scheduled country._" 

Does that mean I could have lived in Canada from when i was born, to says 14 years old, then moved to say the USA, then moved back to Canada when i was 18 and I won't have to have the Pre-sec done any further(seeing as I've been waiting for it to be processed since last October), because I was in Canada for 10+ years at one time.

What I'm trying to say is, can the 10 consecutive years be at any time, or do that have to be from now to 10 years ago? 

Or did I misunderstand something?


----------



## kincanucks

invno1 said:
			
		

> So let me get this straight when kincanucks says,
> 
> "_If you are a Canadian citizen and have lived in Canada for a ten year continuous period or to the age of 16, whichever comes first then you will not require a pre-sec, unless you come from a scheduled country or have immediate relatives living in a scheduled country._"
> 
> Does that mean I could have lived in Canada from when i was born, to says 14 years old, then moved to say the USA, then moved back to Canada when i was 18 and I won't have to have the Pre-sec done any further(seeing as I've been waiting for it to be processed since last October), because I was in Canada for 10+ years at one time.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is, can the 10 consecutive years be at any time, or do that have to be from now to 10 years ago?
> 
> Or did I misunderstand something?



My fault for not writing it properly.

You have not lived in Canada for ten-year continuous period immediately prior to applying and you have not lived in Canada since you were 16.  Based on that you would require a pre-sec.

Now my question to you would be why did you move to the USA because that could have a bearing on what happens to you.


----------



## kincanucks

_If you are a Canadian citizen and have lived in Canada for a ten year continuous period or to the age of 16, whichever comes first then you will not require a pre-sec, unless you come from a scheduled country or have immediate relatives living in a scheduled country._

Sorry that should have read:

If you are a Canadian citizen and if you have lived in Canada for ten-year continuous period immediately prior to applying or you have lived in Canada since you were 16, whichever comes first then you will not require a pre-sec, unless you come from a scheduled country or have immediate relatives living in a scheduled country.


----------



## invno1

it was in highschool, my parents moved back to the USA (because they were originally from there). I couldn't afford to live on my own in Canada, so I went and lived with them. They were living in a border town so I still kept going to school, working and everything in Canada, cept sleeping. I never got anything in the USA either(credit cards, criminal record, etc.) except a driver's license that I had for 3 months before I switched it to a BC one.

Actually I just went back and figured it out, I was 15 when I moved to the USA, and 9 months short of my 16th BDAY, 9 MONTHS!!! that's really frustrating.

Oh well, keep soldierin' on and hope for the best.


----------



## Infanteer101

Security checks almost always take a while unless there is a rush put on it (by either a government official or someone higher up the chain, which is rare). The checks are done thru Ottawa and they aren't solely determined on basis of trade, they look at many aspects, including how you scored on the CFAT, the interview and where you have been/lived in the past few years especially if they appear on the scheduled country list (I have been told that these checks are not biased). This information however can always be critically subject to an expert's perspective however so keep that in mind. For some high security level trades a Signals Officer for instance, part of the check may be done to get you in and the other part may be done while you are in a certain of training (depending on how badly they wish to fill in the void). Either way sit tight and keep your spirits high until the check clears, whatever career you choose in the CF, it's worth the wait! Best of luck to you.


----------



## garb811

>>Infanteer101<< said:
			
		

> ...including how you scored on the CFAT, the interview and where you have been/lived in the past few years especially if they appear on the scheduled country list (I have been told that these checks are not biased)...


   Errr...not quite sure where you came up with your info.  Why would you think a CFAT score would have any bearing on the checks being conducted for your security clearance?  The actual checks that are conducted for each level are public record and can be found at Annex "C" here:  GSP - Personnel Security Standard.


----------



## Infanteer101

I'm just basing this on the info I recieved from the CFRC, I in no maner hold myself to be an expert in this case. I was told that a CFAT may have some bearing on the speediness of a security check depending on the need for a certain occupation to be filled in immediately. I do think however, MP 00161 that you are correct because it did take me a few dozen trips to the CFRC to get everything straightened out. Thanks for the info! Cheers!


----------



## P-Free

Hey, can anyone tell me what level security clearance a SigOp recruit needs? Just filling it out...recruiting center doesn't open til Monday and if I need to fill out the parts for Level III then I need to compile some info over the weekend...


P.......


----------



## TCBF

You don't have a "need to know."  ;D

Seriously, don't worry.  it's not a test you can study for.  Fill out the forms completely, correctly, and accurately.  Then have a nice wekend. Turn the forms in on Monday, and don't call them, they'll call you.


Tom


----------



## Sigop2004

P-Free said:
			
		

> Hey, can anyone tell me what level security clearance a SigOp recruit needs? Just filling it out...recruiting center doesn't open til Monday and if I need to fill out the parts for Level III then I need to compile some info over the weekend...
> 
> 
> P.......



Being a sigop I can tell you fill out all of the form that the recruiting center gave you Trust me you WILL require at least a level 3 at some point and that one is multiple pages.


----------



## Sigop2004

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Didn't we just cover all this in another thread yesterday and several other threads in the past?



Yesterdays was about navcomms if I remember correctly. But the best source of information anyone can get is ask  the recruiter. If people asked more questions of the recruiter there would probably be less of these threads here.Then again many people just joining the CF would not know to ask some of these questions because they have never had a security clearance etc, this forum would then become a good opportunity to find out which questions to ask due to the experiences/skills of the members that have been through the process in the past.


----------



## P-Free

The form I got just says if I need a Level III I need to fill out parts K, L, M, N and O. Parts about character references, and where you've traveled outside Canada. If I only need a Level I and II I don't need to fill those sections out..But all they sent me in the mail was the form, nothing to tell me which level I'll need. 

So I don't want to fill it out incorrectly...

P........


----------



## Sigop2004

P-Free said:
			
		

> The form I got just says if I need a Level III I need to fill out parts K, L, M, N and O. Parts about character references, and where you've traveled outside Canada. If I only need a Level I and II I don't need to fill those sections out..But all they sent me in the mail was the form, nothing to tell me which level I'll need.
> 
> So I don't want to fill it out incorrectly...
> 
> P........



I would wait until monday and call your CFRC and ask them specificallywhat they require for you to  fill out. I haqve filled out MANY of those forms in my time in the CF and they will never be 100% correct the first try  (in my experience)


----------



## atticus

Does anybody know why you have to fill out this twice? All of the information on it has already been provided to the CFRC and yet here I am filling out another one. The only difference that I can spot between the two is that this one is asking for everything to be 10 years back when the last one was only five.


----------



## HollywoodHitman

You had better get used to filling out the same forms over and over and over and over and over and over again....Its the nature of the military. The main reason may indeed be that there has recently been a change in the format of the security screening sheets used when enrolling in the CF.


----------



## atticus

argh, that is one thing I'm not looking forward to. I am sitting here going nuts at quarter to one trying to remember the freaking postal code of a place I haven't lived in for six years, among other little nuiciances I just can't remember. Like do they really care that I washed dishes at ABC Country Resturaunt when I was 14?


----------



## HollywoodHitman

What it's mostly about is that they want you to be able to account for your activities for a certain period of time. This way, they can investigate whether you have been up to anything untoward in while 'gaps in employment or school'


----------



## P-Free

My recruiting center just photocopied mine for their reference and use...

If you have the same one as I got, there should be 2 pages of instructions on how to fill it out, and under the section for past addresses it just says you only need postal code for current address and others IF YOU KNOW IT..


P......


----------



## Sig_Des

Be as thorough as possible, make sure there are NO gaps between any of your activities in the last 10 years. The difference between the 5 year and the ten year is lvl II secret, and lvl III Top Secret.

if you were out of a job for a few months between job, write it down..make sure you're thorough and follow instructions to the letter...any discrepancies can add WEEKS onto your security clearance process


----------



## Sig_Des

If you remember anything from this thread..once you have you're security clearance form filled and ready to hand in, 


MAKE A PHOTOCOPY AND KEEP IT IN YOUR PERSONAL FILES FOR THE REMAINDER OF YOUR CAREER!!!!

It makes it a lot easier when you need to do a security update...just pull up the old form, and add any new info


----------



## Gunner_Pyza

Sorry I have a few questions:

Would corrections on the form add a delay?   Would white out be looked upon as suspicious?

I will be attending the Naval Electronic Sensor Operator Qualification 3 course...since it says 'Qualification 3 course' does that mean that this is one of the trades that have a Level III?


----------



## Sig_Des

Gunner_Pyza said:
			
		

> Sorry I have a few questions:
> 
> Would corrections on the form add a delay?    Would white out be looked upon as suspicious?
> 
> I will be attending the Naval Electronic Sensor Operator Qualification 3 course...since it says 'Qualification 3 course' does that mean that this is one of the trades that have a Level III?



No Qualification 3 is your first trades course and that name has nothing to do with your sec level..I Don't know what sec level your trade needs, I'd ask one of the naval types on the forums.

Corrections won't add a delay, in fact they'll prevent one...make sure all information is as accurate as possible

Edit: Grammar


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

atticus said:
			
		

> argh, that is one thing I'm not looking forward to. I am sitting here going nuts at quarter to one trying to remember the freaking postal code of a place I haven't lived in for six years, among other little nuiciances I just can't remember. Like do they really care that I washed dishes at ABC Country Resturaunt when I was 14?



You think they care about the postal code of the elementary school I went to when I was 7? Of course they care. 

Besides, it could be worse. I hear for Level III SA they go back 20 years...


----------



## Sig_Des

Cpl Bloggins said:
			
		

> Besides, it could be worse. I hear for Level III SA they go back 20 years...



It's still ten years...the investigation itself would be more detailed for an SA. Current turn-around time for lvl III is 2 years


----------



## bgc_fan

As a little anecdote, during BOTC, we had to fill those out again. Since I only needed Level II I just filled those parts in. Appearently, I was the only one that did so because when I handed it in, the person collecting them made a comment like, "Oh, the only person who read the instructions".



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> You know....The Boy Scouts have a marvellous motto, one that would do all of us good in our travels through the Universe.  Always "Be Prepared".
> 
> If you are not sure, don't waste your time asking here, research those answers, and record them neatly on a piece of paper (ie. open a Word Doc and save them on the computer you are currently using) and have them handy for when you go to the Recruiting Center.  If you need a Level III, then you will have the answers already done.  If you don't need the Level III Clearance, then you can file them away until you do need them.


----------



## mike

well since the last time a post was made on this subject, i have been granted security clearance, did updated pt(passed), medical(passed) and interview(passed), now have been told today when i called that my file has to go to Ottawa (again) for another security clearance?  i am not sure why if i was granted security clearance within a couple of months ago, why would my file have to go to Ottawa again?


----------



## zein

Hi All,

My security clearance took almost 2 years and 8 months . My fingerprint clearance took an additional 6 months so if it will take u a small period of time to get the clearance then consider yourself lucky.


----------



## mike

well i guess i stirred the pot enough to get some answers..............emailed the PO1 that interviewed me and let him know what was happening, he replied to me, told me he would look into what was happening.......all said and done, security clearance has been signed off, file will be going off to Ottawa within the next week or so to be merit listed...................we'll see what will happen next!!!!!
looking forward to it!!
 :skull:


----------



## Pieman

mike, you might want to consider contacting the same person each time you get in contact with the recruiting center. Next time you are talking to someone there, ask if you can use them as your main contact, and then ask for their contact info. This is so each time you call to check on your file, the person on the other end will know exactly who you are and what is going on with your file.


----------



## kierankyllo

I am currently filling out my security clearance form for the last 10 years and I discovered a trick to actually remembering where you have been working for the last ten years as far as months and years.  Every time you have ever worked for anyone (not under the table) your employer must submit a ROE (Record of Employment) form to account for your time being employed.   This form contains all info needed to fill out the employment parts on the CF Security clearance form.   Even better, under the access to information act you are entitled to copies of these records, all of them.   

        So what you do is you get in touch with the Access To Information and Privacy Co-Ordinator for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and fill out an Request for personal information form requesting your ROE records.   I know it sounds insane to send in a form to get copies of old forms in order to fill out a new form, but, well...   I suppose it is insane.   The turn around for a request for personal information is supposed to be 30 days under the Access to information act, (Yeah Right).   I hope this helps at least one person navigate the burocracy.

Here is a list of the Access to information and privacy co-ordinators for all branches of the federal government.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/gos-sog/atip-aiprp/apps/coords/index_e.asp

And here is a link to a PDF of the Request for personal information form.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/gos-sog/forms/Acc-pri/350-58_e.rtf


        I believe that there may be a $25 fee if for them to process your request, but in my opinion it is worth it.   My CF recruiter mentioned that the major cause of delay in processing the forms is incomplete or incorrect information.

        Also, does anyone know the turn around time for the processing of the CF Security Clearance form?

-KKB


----------



## Sig_Des

depends on what level you're going for. Lvl III TS generally has a 2 year turn-around time


----------



## George Wallace

kierankyllo said:
			
		

> I am currently filling out my security clearance form for the last 10 years and I discovered a trick to actually remembering what you have been doing for the last ten years.   Don't, let the government do it for you.


   But... you contradict yourself in the rest of your post, when you suggest that they use the Freedom of Information Act.   Ooooopps....I see!   A comma instead of a period.   (Poor sentence structure.) You do want the Government to do it for you.   OK.

Now depending on what level of Security Clearance you are filling out, the Government will not know everything. At least not within a reasonable amount of time.   You may have to list all your immediate Relatives, which may include relatives living in foreign countries, for whom the Government has no records.   You may have to list all their employers, to include the employers address, and then your relatives Job Titles.   How time consuming can this be.   

If you do this yourself, providing as much information as possible, then the processing of your Security Clearance will be much faster.   Security Clearances take different amount of time to process, depending on what Level of Clearance is required.

You will find that when you want any information from the Government, the more that you are able to provide, the quicker you will get results.   This is especially true for those requesting information on Service Records of Fathers and Grandfathers for Genelogical Research.   The more info you provide, better results you will get.   

In reference to your advising the use of the Freedom of Information Act, you must be very clear on what information you are requesting.   If you are thinking that they will send you everything they have on you, you are wrong.   They will only send you information on what you have specifically requested.


----------



## aesop081

kierankyllo said:
			
		

> Also, does anyone know the turn around time for the processing of the CF Security Clearance form?
> 
> -KKB



I've been waiting for 2 years for my level III and i'm already in the job that requires it !!


----------



## Sig_Des

That's what we call Lvl III pending...technically not supposed to have the job, and if for some reason it doesn't clear, you find yourself out of one...their pretty strict about not giving a job unless you hold the clearance in some of the places around here in Ottawa


----------



## PARAMEDIC

funny and I have been waiting for about 3 yrs now for my level 3 security clearence and Im only applying for reg force infantry....

how the hell did you manage that aesop?? I seriously wanna know..its reading about these irregularities in the recruiting process that irratates the shite outta me and makes me think about racial favouritism and all other bs that I shouldn't even be thinking about, after all the army is "green".

 :rage: :rage: ??? ??? :crybaby: :crybaby: calming down now.....


----------



## George Wallace

Why would you require a Lvl 3 to go Infantry?  Most cases the highest required would be Lvl 2.  Level 1 is usually all they require for those entering Infantry.  You may have just wasted your time and someone else's.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> funny and I have been waiting for about 3 yrs now for my level 3 security clearence and Im only applying for reg force infantry....
> 
> how the heck did you manage that aesop?? I seriously wanna know..its reading about these irregularities in the recruiting process that irratates the shite outta me and makes me think about racial favouritism and all other bs that I shouldn't even be thinking about, after all the army is "green".
> 
> :rage: :rage: ??? ??? :crybaby: :crybaby: calming down now.....



You don't get a Level III clearance when entering as a recruit - ever.  Aesop081 is already in the CF and in a job that requires one.  As an infantry newbie, you won't.

"Racial favouritism" ?? You lost me there...  :


----------



## kincanucks

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Why would you require a Lvl 3 to go Infantry?   Most cases the highest required would be Lvl 2.   Level 1 is usually all they require for those entering Infantry.   You may have just wasted your time and someone else's.



I think he is referring to the presec. :


----------



## George Wallace

Sorry,   didn't really realize he was a NP.      ;D   An EP wouldn't make those mistakes, but the timing might be right.


----------



## George Wallace

aesop081 said:
			
		

> I've been waiting for 2 years for my level III and i'm already in the job that requires it !!


Did you do the on-line forms?  I'm in the process myself and wondering how it went?  Good thing that I kept copies of my last two or three forms on file, and have moved only in the last year, greatly simplifying things.


----------



## aesop081

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Did you do the on-line forms?   I'm in the process myself and wondering how it went?   Good thing that I kept copies of my last two or three forms on file, and have moved only in the last year, greatly simplifying things.



Yeah i did the online thing.   It took them a month to figure out they wanted some more info but it took them a year to tell me.   Then i was posted to greenwood and right in the middle of sorting things out, the clerk got posted so i got sent to the comissionaire that handles these things and straightened it out.   Now i got posted to Comox so who knows WTF is going on now.   I'll have to check up on it when i get back from the US next month.

Glad i kept copies of all the required information, pictures as well as the fingerprints.

The problem is that once you hit complete on the online form...you can't re-enter it.   You have to get on a clerck to sort it out or input anything.   Also, the "completeness check" button on the forms doesnt work worth a damned.

PARAMEDIC : You don't need level III for infantry so stop wasting your time.   I already had level II from my previous MOC so i am ok until this all gets sorted out.


----------



## Cloud Cover

I am also in the process of an upgrade to my security clearance and I was told it would take about 18 months. I am in the process of both a cyclical update along with an upgrade. 

In my current employment, we have to use the TBS Forms which seem to be a lot less invasive from a personal privacy standpoint.    I will actually be travelling to the ME in the period of time since I filed the forms in May- when I called and inquired as to whether I would need to revise the forms they told me [in broken English] it was not necessary. Not trusting the answer given, I made further inquiries by way of a letter along with the revised information.   I subsequently received a letter in reply indicating the revised information was now on file. What an awe inspiring government we have.   

Paper your file with any/all changes- if they have to do that work for you, it will take longer.


----------



## NCRCrow

Security Clearances also depend on the urgency of the person needing it for there position especially in an international position/profile.

Lvl 3 /SA/TK etc will be expedited quickly especially if your CO deems it necessary to perform a task or do a conference/trip/course.

An infantry officer with a Lv 3 or more, only unless they are posted to NDCC or a real high level staff position.

AESOP's/NESOP's require Lvl 3, but can easily perform there duties with Lvl 2. (I have a whole department of Lvl 2's).


----------



## Cloud Cover

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Security Clearances also depend on the urgency of the person needing it for there position especially in an international position/profile.
> 
> Lvl 3 /SA/TK etc will be expedited quickly especially if your CO deems it necessary to perform a task or do a conference/trip/course.



I understand that may also apply to briefings certificates - especially if you are required or expected to contribute something at the briefing.


----------



## NCRCrow

I have honestly not heard of a briefing cert. I was lucky and got the needed in-docs prior.

I would lose a compartmentalized clearance upon my return.


----------



## Cloud Cover

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> I have honestly not heard of a briefing cert. I was lucky and got the needed in-docs prior.
> 
> I would lose a compartmentalized clearance upon my return.



Its a civi thing to enable attendance at certain briefings.


----------



## Springroll

What kind of clearance does an IntOp need?


----------



## aesop081

Springroll said:
			
		

> What kind of clearance does an IntOp need?



When i applied a few years ago Int Op needed level 2 at the time of application and must be able to get level 3 by the end of trade training.   May have been changed over time.

Planning a remuster already ?


----------



## Bintheredunthat

Since this thread is titled "Security Clearance Form Trick", I'll give a couple of other tricks.

Sorry for those of you that may think this is common sense for all, it really isn't.

1) When giving references, try to pick local people first, people close to a base second, and people all in one place third.  If and when interviews of these people are conducted, it's easier for the interviewer to do their job A) all at once or B) all in one area.  Of course picking local people may not be a great idea if you are in like......I don't know.........Alert???  Heheh.  I doubt there are people in Alert who's sole job is to do Security Clearance interviews.  Anyway, when you really think about it, it doesn't make sense to put down you old pal Bob who lives in B.C., your old boss Joe who lives in Nunavut, and your teacher Mr Jones from Newfoundland.  Think of all the coordination that has to be done to get THOSE interviews done.

2) When you complete your clearance form and are ready to submit it, get a photocopy first.  If it took you weeks to track down all that pertinent info, think of how pissed you'll be if your form gets lost.  Don't laugh, I've seen it.  There's nothing worse than checking on a security clearance only to hear, "There's been no paper work submitted for that."   :rage:So get yourself a copy first (as you always should in the CF) and have it tucked away at home just in case.  I even have a copy of my road test for my Track course, just in case the Army goes back to M113s in the future. ;D  Better safe than trying to track down your long lost dad's middle name all over again, I say anyway.

Good luck!

Bin


----------



## badsector

Well, I got a call from the CFRC today regarding my security clearance.  I seemed to have forgot to fill in how long I have been living at my current address.  I gave her the estimated date and it was entered into the system.   I'm just curious what relevance this has while doing a security check?


Thanks.   

(Edited by Moderator to clarify thread subject.)


----------



## kincanucks

badsector said:
			
		

> Well, I got a call from the CFRC today regarding my security clearance.   I seemed to have forgot to fill in how long I have been living at my current address.   I gave her the estimated date and it was entered into the system.     I'm just curious what relevance this has while doing a security check?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> (Edited by Moderator to clarify thread subject.)



The BACKGROUND CHECK is submitted electronically and every address must be entered with a "from and to" date or the BACKGROUND CHECK can not be done.


----------



## badsector

Well I know that it is required to request the security check.  I was just wondering what it's relevence to the security check is?


----------



## kincanucks

They are used in the verification of personal data in that were you where you said you live/lived and they can also be used in the checking of any possible conviction (s).


----------



## Frozensoup

I'm an American dual citizen who's been out of the country for 12 years.   Next year, I want to move back to Canada and enlist full time in the Canadian Army. 

Will there be any issues with my status as dual citizen?  Do I have to live in Canada for a certain amount of time prior to enlistment?  Is there some kind of security check i'll have to do?  If so, could I get a jump start on that, prior to making the trip up north?    

I understand there will be a waiting period, regardless of how complex the recruitment process will be.  But how long should I expect?

I just hope I don't have to settle with the U.S. Army.         

-Patrick from Missouri


----------



## TCBF

My advice would be to join the USAF.  Good postings all over the world, and good tech training, as well as education and re-up plans that far beat ours.  You will notice far more Cdns trying to join the US Military than Americans trying to join the CF.  We just can't offer the same benefits package or oportunities.  

Tom


----------



## 54/102 CEF

The dual status should be no problem - I have it - got it late but always in the back pocket. There will be normal bureaucracy and you should have no trouble from US side unless they have a claim on you but since there is no draft - you should have no problem.

Bear in mind they want you to file with the US IRS every year - I haven't done it for last three odd years. But I will!


----------



## Big Red

Frozensoup said:
			
		

> I just hope I don't have to settle with the U.S. Army.



You don't want to settle for the best army in the world?


----------



## Jaxson

Big Red said:
			
		

> You don't want to settle for the best army in the world?



Maybe he doesn't agree with the current politics of the country and how the armies being used, or perhaps he wants to belong to a country who is not extremely hated?.


----------



## ghazise

After the age of 18 the United States no will longer recognize dual-citizenship and if you serve in any foreign military you will loose your US citizenship, though Canada will recognize your dual-citizenship,,, both of my brothers serve in the CF and they are both dual-citizens, and they have never had any problems,


----------



## kincanucks

You will be required to undergo a pre-security assessment that may take up to 18 months or more to complete.  Also because you have not lived in Canada for the last five years you will be required to provide a criminal and credit check from the area you were living in.  Also, make sure you have detailed proof of where you lived and when and employer references.


----------



## TCBF

"Maybe he doesn't agree with the current politics of the country and how the armies being used, or perhaps he wants to belong to a country who is not extremely hated?."

- So, would you want a person that sensitive in ANY Army?  What if our policies change, or we become more hated than we are now (which might happen as the oil for food scandal unravels..)?

Would such a person still fulfill their terms of reference?  We shared fire positons with US Soldiers on Op APOLLO.  Would a sensitive type of person refuse to support such a mission?

Tom


----------



## PJ D-Dog

Frozensoup said:
			
		

> I just hope I don't have to settle with the U.S. Army.



I don't understand why you would not want to join a military that is better equipped and better manned than the one up north.  There are many people on this board and others who would give their left nut to join the US military but can't due to nationality.

The CF have a lot of excellent service members in it.  Having said this and having served both in the CF for 11 years and now four years in the Marines, I would pick the US military any day of the week and twice on Sunday.  Of course this is my opinion.

My question to you is this:  if you are looking for a military career, why do you want to join the CF as opposed to any branch of service in the US?  There are far greater career options and benefits in the US military...I'm just curious as to whether or not you have looked into all of the available options.  Feel free to respond.

PJ D-Dog


----------



## TCBF

Having been in the CF for a while and worked with Americans in Canada, Europe, and Elsewhere, I agree with PJ D-Dog.  If our entertainers and health care professionals go south to broaden their careers and take advantage of greater opportunities, why not our Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen as well? 

Go South, Young Man!

Tom


----------



## kincanucks

Perhaps he is afraid?


----------



## silentbutdeadly

So i guess you are getting your answer and well here's mine. Since being raised by a Marine father and living down there till around the early 80"s i say go south my boy! better everthing when it comes to life. But one problem that i say to people who ask me " why didn't you join the Marines" and i say " i would most likely dead by now" but don't let that bother you .   Semper Fi!


----------



## TCBF

"i would most likely dead by now""

- I would say the odds are slightly better in your favour.  Iraq isn't Omaha Beach - or, more to the point, Saipan - and the correlation of forces are in your favour.  

Now, the other side (the insurgents): those bad guys have a serious attrition problem. 

Tom


----------



## Sgt_McWatt

Hello,

I have a few questions. I have almost completed my application process. I have done all tests, and my medical is back from RMO. Now all I am waiting for it my enhanced reliability check. I can tell you this information if it helps, no record, never been arrested, born in Canada, lived in the same house for 12 years. So I assumed it wouldn't take to long How long do you THINK it SHOULD take?
Secondly I have read through previous posts in an attempt to find this information and was unsuccessful, but I did find that there is a fingerprint check of sorts. When is this administered? Thirdly when is swearing in in relation to when you get enrolled into your RESERVE unit?


----------



## kincanucks

WO. McWatt said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I have a few questions. I have almost completed my application process. I have done all tests, and my medical is back from RMO. Now all I am waiting for it my enhanced reliability check. I can tell you this information if it helps, no record, never been arrested, born in Canada, lived in the same house for 12 years. So I assumed it wouldn't take to long How long do you THINK it SHOULD take?
> Secondly I have read through previous posts in an attempt to find this information and was unsuccessful, but I did find that there is a fingerprint check of sorts. When is this administered? Thirdly when is swearing in in relation to when you get enrolled into your RESERVE unit?


ERC should only take a few business days to complete.
You only have your fingerprints taken to confirm any criminal hits.
Being sworn in is being enrolled.


----------



## Sgt_McWatt

So, the swearing in ceremony is done by your unit then? Sorry I have never had this part explained in detail. So from what I gather. Once your unit gets your file they call you up and tell you to come in that night, then you do your ceremony get issued kit etc..?


----------



## kincanucks

Yes, you are sworn in at your intended reserve unit.  What they do with you after that will be explained in due time.


----------



## JohnnySav

They had told me two weeks, but its been three, going on four weeks monday. Whats the hold up? does it always take this damn long? I know for a fact I don't have a criminal record (I work with children as a volunteer in a hospice) and my credit, lets just say we all have our problems but nothing major (I am a university student lol) Anyone else face or is facing this same problem?

Appreciate the info thanks guys.

 ???


----------



## JohnnySav

Oh yeah, one more thing, if everything goes smooth, and I get in to the unit I applied through, I might switch universities to somewhere else in Ontario, and I know for a fact it won't be untill I finish my BMQ and SQ training. It is alright to switch units to somewhere around my chosen University right?


----------



## kincanucks

JohnnySav said:
			
		

> They had told me two weeks, but its been three, going on four weeks monday. Whats the hold up? does it always take this damn long? I know for a fact I don't have a criminal record (I work with children as a volunteer in a hospice) and my credit, lets just say we all have our problems but nothing major (I am a university student lol) Anyone else face or is facing this same problem?
> 
> Appreciate the info thanks guys.
> 
> ???



ERS usually come back in a few business days.  Are you sure that is the hold up and have you talked to the CFRC/D or the reserve unit about it?


----------



## silentbutdeadly

Hey don't get me wrong it is alot better then the past , but he was asking which military should he join. So i just want to state some options USA=IRAQ= 1 yr service there=Bad Odds compared to CANADA=AFGHANISTAN= 6 mths=Better odds. But like i said , if i knew then what i know now about the Canadian Army , i think i would have joined the Marines.


----------



## PJ D-Dog

silentbutdeadly said:
			
		

> Hey don't get me wrong it is alot better then the past , but he was asking which military should he join. So i just want to state some options USA=IRAQ= 1 yr service there=Bad Odds compared to CANADA=AFGHANISTAN= 6 mths=Better odds. But like i said , if i knew then what i know now about the Canadian Army , i think i would have joined the Marines.



I know this is just nickel and dime stuff, but the US Army deploys to Iraq for 1 year.  The Marines deploy to Iraq for 7 months.  In in rare cases for special operations or functions do Marines spend a full year in Iraq.  Just thought I'd make the point.

PJ D-Dog


----------



## silentbutdeadly

thx! i heard US army guys there for 24 mths also! i was like "thats nuts"


----------



## Zombie

JohnnySav said:
			
		

> They had told me two weeks, but its been three, going on four weeks monday. Whats the hold up? does it always take this damn long? I know for a fact I don't have a criminal record (I work with children as a volunteer in a hospice) and my credit, lets just say we all have our problems but nothing major (I am a university student lol) Anyone else face or is facing this same problem?
> 
> Appreciate the info thanks guys.
> 
> ???



I am awaiting my background check as well, and it's going on about 7 or 8 weeks since they sent it out. I also have no criminal record or debt issues. Nothing you can do other than wait and check in on it's progress.


----------



## Sgt_McWatt

JohnnySav said:
			
		

> They had told me two weeks, but its been three, going on four weeks monday. Whats the hold up? does it always take this damn long? I know for a fact I don't have a criminal record (I work with children as a volunteer in a hospice) and my credit, lets just say we all have our problems but nothing major (I am a university student lol) Anyone else face or is facing this same problem?
> 
> Appreciate the info thanks guys.
> 
> ???



I am in the same predicament as you. I was told it would be about two weeks. I am done three going on four. I am a highschool student. So no debt, I have no criminal record, and I have lived in the same house for twelve years. Just have to wait it out.


----------



## kincanucks

If you go out of the country for a period less than six months it will not affect your pre-sec unless you visit a country of concern then you will have to inform the CFRC/D so that they can let DPM Sec 2 know.  No, the Carribean is not of concern.


----------



## Wils21

This question is geared towards those in the recruiting cadre.  I have done all my tests and I did quite well.  Now my ERC went out in August 2005 and is back but there are no comments on my file.  There is however a contact #.  So I have contacted this person several times with no return calls.  My question is does this lack of info in my personal jacket mean I have not obtained my clearance.  Just thought I would come on here and get an idea of what to expect when they decide to call me back.  Thanks for your time.


----------



## Zombie

Zombie said:
			
		

> I am awaiting my background check as well, and it's going on about 7 or 8 weeks since they sent it out. I also have no criminal record or debt issues. Nothing you can do other than wait and check in on it's progress.



Just got back from the RC and finally got news that my background check is done. I do need to bring them proof that a debt issue from a few years back is being taken care of. I wasn't even aware this debt existed, or at least I thought I had taken care of it years ago. Anyway, my background check took approximately 10 weeks. Now to pay this debt and move on...


----------



## Joe Blow

Hi folks - I thought I resurrect this thread rather than start a new one...



> Level I and II security clearances involve checking CSIS databanks. Level III security clearances require a full field investigation, which involves checking CSIS records; interviewing friends, neighbours and employers; consulting with local police; and, possibly interviewing the applicant.


http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/en/priorities/security_screening.asp

Lord only knows what the 'CSIS databanks' constitute, so here's a question for anyone in the know:  Would an immediate relative's serious drug and violence convictions (presently on parole) show up in such a search, and if so would this be problematic for my security clearance application?

Just ..umm hypothetically ..you know?  :-\

Thanks.


----------



## Sig_Des

It would show up, and then they would have to look into the records if you had any involvement in the situation...IE charges, police reports, etc.

If CSIS interviews you, they will ask...either way, be honest, and there shouldn't be a problem..The security clearance is to see if you're trustworthy, and if there's a security concern with you..

If you're in, talk to you're Unit Security Supervisor (the one who'll be processing your clearance). If you're waiting, talk to your recruiter


----------



## Joe Blow

Thanks for the word Sig_Des.  (For the record, I will not show as related in any way to this person's malfeasance.) I will try to reach my Unit Security Supervisor.  (Since I am awaiting my course at St. Jean I presume 'my unit' is my recruiting centre.)

Additionally (with relation to this same individual) is it safe to say that medical records will also be evident?


----------



## muffin

Cpl Bloggins said:
			
		

> You think they care about the postal code of the elementary school I went to when I was 7? Of course they care.
> 
> Besides, it could be worse. I hear for Level III SA they go back 20 years...



I remember the first time I filled out an SA form I was 19.... going back 20yrs was really interesting.... 
1977-1978  Twinkle in daddy's eye
1978-1980 BORN - Nursing
1980-1984 playing with Barbie
1984 I started Grade School.........

and you have to refill one every few years and every time you are posted...... I would definatly keep a copy ... mym mom was only thrilled to help me remember every street address from my childhood once 

It may be helpful too while you are doing it to write down everything as far back as you can - so if you ever need to go back 20 years you will have more than enough info.


----------



## kincanucks

10 years back for both Level II and Level III.


----------



## Joe Blow

> Additionally (with relation to this same individual) is it safe to say that medical records will also be evident?



I found an answer to my second question so I thought I'd post it in case anyone was curious.  It turns out that in order for anyone (incl. gov. agencies.)  to access your provincially held medical files, express permission must be given by you in writing. (At least in my province.)  Additionally, this permission has an expiry date.

So... nope.


----------



## JSR OP

You think you guys have it bad now?  Just wait until your waiting for your higher security clearences.  It can take over a year in some cases! I know guys that have been passed over for a tour because they were waiting for  their new clearences to come through. I may be mistaken, but I believe the same people who do your ERS also do the higher clearences as well.  With the CF trying to expand its numbers, along with the upgrades, and updates to clearences, the wait will get even longer. 

Hope that makes you all feel better!


----------



## regulator12

Man i have been waiting for my ERC, security check backround check since November 24, 2005. Does it normally take this long, is there anything i can do to speed it up. I know its coming back with a hit, credit problems, recruiting center knows about it and has all required papers. they just say that they have to wait for the actual paper from ottawa to come down. This is all i am waiting on to get merit listed...ohhh the frustrastion......


----------



## Joe Blow

Hi There - 

I thought I'd revive this thread to get some input.  You see, I did not use any of the (very sensible) tricks listed above, and instead have tried to rely on brain power and scattered records alone.

I'm beginning to realize that I do not have all of the employment history info that they are asking for on the security clearance form.  :-\  I just can't remember who my supervisor was in this 2 bit job I had years ago for ex.  Additionally, one fellow I worked for for a month had his little company go belly up shortly after I left.  I couldn't find him for the life of me and still can't (..and I can't remember the bloody address either).  In hind sight I'm pretty sure none of what he did was very on the level either.

So my question is this:  What of it?  I'm not missing much information but there are definitely a few blanks.  Can I expect an interview?  Will it be denied based on this kind of thing?  Am I sweating the small stuff here? Thanks.


----------



## kincanucks

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Hi There -
> 
> I thought I'd revive this thread to get some input.  You see, I did not use any of the (very sensible) tricks listed above, and instead have tried to rely on brain power and scattered records alone.
> 
> I'm beginning to realize that I do not have all of the employment history info that they are asking for on the security clearance form.  :-\  I just can't remember who my supervisor was in this 2 bit job I had years ago for ex.  Additionally, one fellow I worked for for a month had his little company go belly up shortly after I left.  I couldn't find him for the life of me and still can't (..and I can't remember the bloody address either).  In hind sight I'm pretty sure none of what he did was very on the level either.
> 
> So my question is this:  What of it?  I'm not missing much information but there are definitely a few blanks.  Can I expect an interview?  Will it be denied based on this kind of thing?  Am I sweating the small stuff here? Thanks.



If you can't remember the required information then write a note stating exactly that.  For example:

"In past employment record number 6, I cannot remember the supervisor's name or contact information."

The person who inputs the information into the computer will enter that information in the statutory declaration portion of the program and you will sign that declaration later when you sign the computer generated forms.


----------



## Zombie

I was in the same situation and my check took about 10 weeks. Nothing you can do to speed it up. The hit was for a loan I had paid off 2 years ago and was lingering on my credit for some reason. When the ERC came back, I showed proof the debt was taken care of, and was added to the merit list. I did however, continue visiting the CFRC in person every other week until the check was done. The last time I went in the person that was in charge of my file apologized for not calling sooner as he had been busy and away from the RC and the file had been back for about a week, so just stay on top of things and check periodically.


----------



## double0three

Just have a few questions on the Background/Security Clearance check.

First of all, I did my original application form online.  And I did my interview around 3-4 weeks ago.  The interviewer said he would start my background check immediately.  However under my application status it still lists my Security Clearance as "In Progess By CFRC".  I don't really have anything I can think of that would cause a hitch, lived in the same province most of my life, switched a few apartments, switched jobs a few times in the past few years.  I do have a good amount of debt, due to spending excessive amounts of money on education, but hopefully that is not a big deal.

 Is it normal to take this long if you haven't been out of the country in the past 10 years?

Also, the previous job I worked at, was at a casino.  Since that place is regulated by the government, I had to go through applications, interviews, fingerprinting, licencing, blah blah blah to get into there.  That was a little over a year ago, but would that process help this security clearance at all, since the government apparently did extensive background checking at that time?  I was also given a security clearance at the International Airport (which took 3 months), but that was probably over 3 years ago now.  Would this help the process at all??

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Sig_Des

double0three,

the security clearance that they're doing for the CFRC is for Enhanced Reliability, anything more comes later. Keep in mind that they have to do the check for all applicants, and it can take some time.

If you've never been out of country, and never had any criminal charges against you, you should be fine. As far as educational debt, as long as your honest and won't be a burden, that shouldn't be long.

The process for security clearances may help when you actually go for an actual security clearance, but it won't automatically transfer over. The investigation will still be processed for a military sec clearance, and the process is lengthy.

Just wait out on the ER from the CFRC, it'll come, and so will your call.


----------



## kincanucks

double0three said:
			
		

> Just have a few questions on the Background/Security Clearance check.
> 
> First of all, I did my original application form online.  And I did my interview around 3-4 weeks ago.  The interviewer said he would start my background check immediately.  However under my application status it still lists my Security Clearance as "In Progess By CFRC".  I don't really have anything I can think of that would cause a hitch, lived in the same province most of my life, switched a few apartments, switched jobs a few times in the past few years.  I do have a good amount of debt, due to spending excessive amounts of money on education, but hopefully that is not a big deal.
> 
> Is it normal to take this long if you haven't been out of the country in the past 10 years?
> 
> Also, the previous job I worked at, was at a casino.  Since that place is regulated by the government, I had to go through applications, interviews, fingerprinting, licencing, blah blah blah to get into there.  That was a little over a year ago, but would that process help this security clearance at all, since the government apparently did extensive background checking at that time?  I was also given a security clearance at the International Airport (which took 3 months), but that was probably over 3 years ago now.  Would this help the process at all??
> 
> Thanks for the info!



More than a week is too long if there are no issues but remember that status is not going to change unless some actually goes into your electronic record and changes it.  So perhaps it has been completed and for some reason it hasn't been changed.  Call the CFRC/D and ask them if everything is okay because you notice that the status for your ERS has not changed.


----------



## Bobby147

Hi all,

I applied for DEO postion in Canadian Forces last year. 

My security clearance is going on and some agency (I think CSIS) already interviewed two out of three character references but the third one has moved to USA, so they could not contact him.

Should I send CFRC another reference (for the third reference)?  

The other two references were positive. Are two of them sufficient?

They still have to contact my neighbourhood reference.

Thanks in advance. 

Bob


----------



## double0three

kincanucks said:
			
		

> More than a week is too long if there are no issues but remember that status is not going to change unless some actually goes into your electronic record and changes it.  So perhaps it has been completed and for some reason it hasn't been changed.  Call the CFRC/D and ask them if everything is okay because you notice that the status for your ERS has not changed.



I am hoping that is the case, that they just forgot to go in and change the status in the computer.  I will try again to contact my recruiter today, called Friday and left a message but haven't heard back yet.  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## kincanucks

Bobby147 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I applied for DEO postion in Canadian Forces last year.
> 
> My security clearance is going on and some agency (I think CSIS) already interviewed two out of three character references but the third one has moved to USA, so they could not contact him.
> 
> Should I send CFRC another reference (for the third reference)?
> 
> The other two references were positive. Are two of them sufficient?
> 
> They still have to contact my neighbourhood reference.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Bob



All character references must be residing in Canada so you had better get on the phone to your CFRC/D very soon and give them another one because I hear the sounds of your pre-assessment coming to a screeching halt.  There were some instructions included with your TBS 330-60 forms, read them.


----------



## Bobby147

Kincanucks, thanks for your reply.

What is TBS 330-60 form?

Thanks,

Bob


----------



## Sig_Des

Bobby147 said:
			
		

> What is TBS 330-60 form?



Personnel Screening, Consent, and Authorization Form.

The form you fill and sign authorizing them to do a clearance check on you


----------



## kincanucks

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Personnel Screening, Consent, and Authorization Form.
> 
> The form you fill and sign authorizing them to do a clearance check on you



No that is the 330-23.  The 330-60 is the Security Clearance Form.


----------



## Sig_Des

ah, you're right....

I was reading a part on the 23 that referred to the 60.

I don't think I filled out a 330-60 when I joined, just a 23. Just when I applied for my Security clearance, and that was done over the DIN.

is the 330-60 part of the application package, or is it just the 23?


----------



## ches

Can dual citizenship affect the outcome of the security clearance? Also, under the section G, question 5 of the 330-60E they ask why you are holding the second citiznship; what exactly do they want?


----------



## kincanucks

ches said:
			
		

> Can dual citizenship affect the outcome of the security clearance? Also, under the section G, question 5 of the 330-60E they ask why you are holding the second citiznship; what exactly do they want?



No dual citizenship will not affect the outcome.  They want to know why you have a second citizenship, i.e. you were born there.


----------



## kincanucks

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> ah, you're right....
> 
> I was reading a part on the 23 that referred to the 60.
> 
> I don't think I filled out a 330-60 when I joined, just a 23. Just when I applied for my Security clearance, and that was done over the DIN.
> 
> is the 330-60 part of the application package, or is it just the 23?



330-23 is part of the application package and the 330-60 is given out for pre-assessment when required and it is given to the enrollee to fill out and take to BMQ with them as part of the enrolment package.


----------



## cdnEng

I want to join the Canadian Forces as DEO. I'm an Electrical Engineer. I've submitted my application, written the aptitude test, gave interview and gone through medical tests. Now I was told to complete the security clearance form since I was not born in Canada. I'm living in Canada for about 14 years. I left my last job few months ago since it was not a good fit for me. I don't want to give my supervisor's contact information. I think that he may not give the right information about my self. I'm comfortable giving the contact information of my Co-worker. My co-worker also left the workplace shortly after me as it was not a good place to work. Will my supervisor's contact information affect my security clearance form and hence my job decision in the Canadian Forces? Also, how long does it take to process the security clearance form? Meanwhile I am working on my physical fitness. If anyone have any answer, please let me know. Thanks.


----------



## kincanucks

You have to supply your employment information for the last ten years, which includes your immediate supervisor's contact information for each job.  Failure to do so could result in the denying of a pre-assessment.  The pre-assessment procedures can last from 18-24 months or longer.


----------



## Bobby147

Hi all,

I applied for DEO (regular) in Canadian Forces. My security clearance process started in mid 2005. 

I gave three character references in my application. They have contacted two of them, but unfortunately the third one has moved to USA  :'(  and my applcation processing is stopped.

One of the reference requirement is that he/she should know you for at least three years. 

I have to find a third reference now. My supervisor has agreed to give me reference but he knows me for last three
years from now. When I filled the security clearance application he knew me for last two years and a few months so I could not use his name. 

Can I use his name as a reference now? 

OR a reference should know me for at least three years from when I filled the security clearance form initially.

Thanks in advance,

Bobby


----------



## kincanucks

Wow,

_I have to find a third reference now. My supervisor has agreed to give me reference but he knows me for last three
years from now. When I filled the security clearance application he knew me for last two years and a few months so I could not use his name. 

Can I use his name as a reference now? 

OR a reference should know me for at least three years from when I filled the security clearance form initially._

The requirement is that your references have to have known you for at least three years.  So if you need another reference and they have now known you for three years thanyou can use them now.

What is your degree in?


----------



## marqucha

I got my Canadian citizenship last summer, and applied to join the Canadian forces this January. I completed  my medical, written test and my interview and i am just waiting for my security clearance to come back. Since i was not born in Canada and have lived here for only 6 years i had to complete the long form. Initially i was told by my recruiter that the clearance was only gonna take between 4 and 8 months. When i went back last week i was told it could take up to 2 years  . 
BTW i am applying to join Sig Ops 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## kincanucks

marqucha said:
			
		

> I got my Canadian citizenship last summer, and applied to join the Canadian forces this January. I completed  my medical, written test and my interview and i am just waiting for my security clearance to come back. Since i was not born in Canada and have lived here for only 6 years i had to complete the long form. Initially i was told by my recruiter that the clearance was only gonna take between 4 and 8 months. When i went back last week i was told it could take up to 2 years  .
> BTW i am applying to join Sig Ops
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated



What do want to hear?  You have to wait and that is all there is to it.


----------



## Canadian Sig

marqucha said:
			
		

> I got my Canadian citizenship last summer, and applied to join the Canadian forces this January. I completed  my medical, written test and my interview and i am just waiting for my security clearance to come back. Since i was not born in Canada and have lived here for only 6 years i had to complete the long form. Initially i was told by my recruiter that the clearance was only gonna take between 4 and 8 months. When i went back last week i was told it could take up to 2 years  .
> BTW i am applying to join Sig Ops
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated



We have lots of sigs working in the trade without their clearance. They dont use certain kit and they are not likely to go on deployment but they do get their trades training while waiting for it. By the time your clearance comes in you could be done basic, SQ, BDT, and your 3's. So try not to despair.


----------



## kincanucks

Canadian Sig said:
			
		

> We have lots of sigs working in the trade without their clearance. They dont use certain kit and they are not likely to go on deployment but they do get their trades training while waiting for it. By the time your clearance comes in you could be done basic, SQ, BDT, and your 3's. So try not to despair.



He is referring to his pre-assessment for security purposes because he has not lived in Canada for the last ten years, which has to be done before he can be enrolled.

DA


----------



## Canadian Sig

kincanucks said:
			
		

> He is referring to his pre-assessment for security purposes because he has not lived in Canada for the last ten years, which has to be done before he can be enrolled.
> 
> DA



Didnt realise the difference. Thanks for the education. Love that avatar btw.

displaced west-coaster


----------



## misfit

After waiting 6 months for the recruiting center to transfer my file from Halifax to Toronto  ...I finally got to do the medical, interview, and PT. I did fine on the medical, and just found out it has been cleared at Ottawa. The interview went well and I passed the PT. Now i've been waiting for this "security check" to clear. I have NO idea what is taking so long for this. I could understand if I:

Had a criminal record, ever (which I don't).
Have every lived outside of canada (which I havn't). 
Gone bankrupt (which I havn't). 


So what is taking so long for security clearance to be Reg. Force Infantry? What else would make this process take so long? I just can't believe they havn't figured out that i'm NOT a sketchy dude. I've been waiting about 3 months for this thing to clear and they havn't told me ANYTHING.

Sorry - but i'm frustrated beyond belief. I'm really losing motivation for this career.


----------



## Hadrian

It's quite possible that the recruiter may only call you or notify you if there is a problem with the security check, I knew mine had been run on me because i had to provide some additional info. I would just relax, they will contact you when they are advised on the status of your file. In your case you may not hear anything until they find out if you have been merit listed, at which time your file manager will let you know. It is also possible that you may not hear anything until your job offer call.

In any case, just chillax, cross your fingers and pray that you've done all you can to beat out the next guy on the list....


----------



## double0three

I have never lived outside of Canada (have not left the country to go to the US for at least 10 years), no criminal record, and my credit is OK (not spotless but nothing too bad on there)  and it took a while for my security check.  I think it was like 3 weeks or something.  Some say this was a normal length of time for my circumstances, some say it was a little long.

At 3 months, I hope you have called the CFRC once every 1-2 weeks to get an update (make sure to talk to the person who did your interview I find that helps).  They dont have any info at all for you??


----------



## kincanucks

Its called an Enhanced Reliability Check (ERC) not a 'security check' and DPM Sec 2 was shut down for a couple of weeks while they moved offices so that may be the reason for the delay and never assumed that the ERC gets sent out the same day you have your interview as it may take several days to get it inputted due to volume.


HH


----------



## misfit

Ok, thanks for the response. I have been calling the recruiting center - but nobody told me the department handling the ERC was closed for a while. I was just getting kind of bummed seeing all the people that have gotten enrolled to the May BMQ. The recruiter told me I would likely get in by then.


----------



## VANDOO

Quick answear to your question, get used to the waiting, in the military you always wait for everything.


but after 8 years in the rank your max out salary as CPL....you will not even notice the wait anymore.


I waited 4 years to be able to join back in the early 90's when I finaly did (transfer from reserve) I was sent to Battle School the only time you dont wait in the military.

sorry to tell ya the bad news

it has gotten worst after 12 years im still waiting for someone to promote me....lol

Je Me Souviens


----------



## misfit

I spoke with an Infanteer at the recruiting centre. He told me people applying to infantry arn't really a priority right now - other trades are. It is very unlikely that I will get an offer for May BMQ. Apparently training for Infanteer is offered all the time, so there is no rush for them to get me in. I'm starting to wonder if i should have selected another trade...I only applied for Infantry, but the Captain who interview me mentioned that I qualified for any trade. Infantry seems like the most exciting trade anyway.


----------



## kincanucks

_He told me people applying to infantry arn't really a priority right now _ 

Bull Fecal matter.  Infantry is always a priority.  He was probably referring to the fact that ROTP is on the front burner right now but recruiting and processing for all occupations is the highest priority for the CF.


----------



## Pea

I was told about 3 weeks ago at CFRC Edmonton that the month of April was already booked for all testing/interviews and such. The recruiter said it was because of ROTP applicants that need to take priority right now. (understandable) So, I am just patiently waiting to book. I figure that close to the end of the month I will give them a call to make sure I am not forgotten about, as they seem pretty swamped.


----------



## misfit

I want to apply for 2 other trades. In my application, I only applied for Infantry. I've got a Computer Science background (degree NOT finished), so I was thinking I could apply my geek skills to either Combat Engineer or Sig Ops. I don't know why I only put Infantry...probably the idea of becoming an airborne, recce, sniper.    
So right now I'm waiting for the ERC to clear (still),  and it only says Infantry on my application. I'm going to see what I can do about adding these trades to my application. 
Anyone have any experience with adding trades after the interview? Is it going to be a problem?


----------



## Off my Stack

Yeah crfc seems to be slow for me anyways...I've heard some stories where people just fly through the recruiting process. But then I have to start from point one, because some how my application was screwed up.(I was merit listed in Feb 2006)  I applied in Nov 2005 for reg infantry. Kind of disheartening, but just taking it one day at a time.


----------



## NavyNeal

When I first handed all my completed application forms and everything in, it was April. They didn't get back to me for my interview / medical / physical until the following January (by which point I had almost forgotten about the application) I went to BMQ that summer. I don't know exactly when they finished the Enhanced Reliability Check, but the whole process took quite a while. And it just keeps getting better; the military motto is "Hurry up and wait!"


----------



## misfit

Ok, so the CFRD said i'm about 2 weeks away from getting a job offer for Reg. Infantry (yes, still waiting for the ERC). But when I spoke to an officer at the CFRD to add Cbt. Engineer and Sig Ops to the wish list - I was made aware of another option that I had not considered.
With about 1 1/2 years left to finish my degree, I may be eligable for ROTP or CEOTP. When he told me that, I left work and went to pick up the additional forms. I think its a long shot since i'm late in applying for this, but I have to give it a shot.


----------



## Hot Lips

Yes, hurry up and wait, lol
I decided to flip my application over to Reg force after waiting 10 months for Res one to go through...everything went well, flying colors, just seems to be a long process, but if you want anything it is worth waiting for  
I already had a level II clearance at one of my last jobs so I think that helped to hasten that part of mine.

HL


----------



## dapaterson

I beleive Sig Op in the REs F requires level II clearance (and for certain positions level III).  Clearances are the same, whether Reg, Res or civ.  So the process will be the same.

On the plus side, once you've been cleared as a Reservist, you can carry that clearance forward to the Regular Force.


----------



## kincanucks

Pre-assessment and security clearance procedures are separate from each other.  Pre-assessment (which you are under going) is required to determine if you are going to be a security risk to Canada based on the fact you were outside the country for more than six months.  This pre-assessment will be conducted regardless if you are going NCM or Officer Reg F or Res F.  The security clearance procedures will be carried out after you are enrolled.


----------



## Jason

Yesterday I phoned the 1-800 number from the recruiting website to ask a few questions.

I asked about the enhanced reliability check, whether it would take up to two years, because I lived out of the country. The person I spoke to told me it would only take two months!

So what's up with that?

I've read on a few threads here, that there are people who have been waiting, or waited 18+ months.

Kincanucks? Any comment on that?

Jason


----------



## Enzo

When you lived out of country, what was the duration and location?

180 days seems to be the magic number. If less, that's a good thing, if more...

Good luck then.


----------



## Jason

Yea, I've read that 180 days in other posts.

I was out of the country for 6 years! in Australia.

I mentioned all this to him. That's why I've created this thread. Has he provided me with mis-information?


----------



## kincanucks

If you have not lived in Canada for the last five years then you have to provide a criminal and credit check from the country you were in because if you don't and the CF has to do out of country checks on you it will take a very long time for those to be completed.  In addition because you have not been in Canada for the last ten-year continuous period you will be subject to a pre-assessment check that can take up to 18 months or longer to complete.  The pre-assessment check will not begin until the Enhanced Reliability Check has been completed satisfactorily.  Have a seat because you are in for a very long wait.


----------



## mcchartman

So Kincanucks, what happens if you were abroad because or your parents' jobs (specifically referring to the Department of Foreign Affairs)? It is in fact my case. I came back to Canada sometimes in the summer of 2002 and turned 18 the following October. That means I have been in the country for only 4 years at the moment, but I remember at least one recruiter telling me categorically that this would not be an issue, especially since I turned 18 years old *after* I got back to Canada. Since I already had an answer from a recruiter, I would not have started a thread on the subject, but this one presented a good opportunity for me to have get a confirmation.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## kincanucks

mcchartman said:
			
		

> So Kincanucks, what happens if you were abroad because or your parents' jobs (specifically referring to the Department of Foreign Affairs)? It is in fact my case. I came back to Canada sometimes in the summer of 2002 and turned 18 the following October. That means I have been in the country for only 4 years at the moment, but I remember at least one recruiter telling me categorically that this would not be an issue, especially since I turned 18 years old *after* I got back to Canada. Since I already had an answer from a recruiter, I would not have started a thread on the subject, but this one presented a good opportunity for me to have get a confirmation.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



In your case then it is not an issue as I have mentioned in previous posts on this subject.


----------



## Jason

Ok. So, what is a Pre-Assessment Check? What does it check?

I remember reading in a post somewhere on this forum that this Pre-Assessment Check is necessary because of the existing terrorist threat present after 9/11. Is this right?

I understand the reasoning and need for these screening measures, but a few questions come to mind. 

Like couldn't a terrorist just wait ten years? 

And Couldn't someone just say they've lived in the country for ten years to avoid all of this delay? (Not saying I'm suggesting it, but if a person has been here five or more years - and your telling me that that's all recruiting looks into for people who have lived here ten years or more, then how would anyone know different?)

Also, a person who's been here eight years might as well not even apply for two years.

Then there's the more personal issue for me, since I'm 33. If I don't get in until after my 35th birthday, I won't be able to complete 20 years for the pension (with a mandatory retirement of 55 - I think that's right, isn't it?)

Just my little rant, 
Jason


----------



## Sig_Des

mcchartman said:
			
		

> So Kincanucks, what happens if you were abroad because or your parents' jobs (specifically referring to the Department of Foreign Affairs)? It is in fact my case. I came back to Canada sometimes in the summer of 2002 and turned 18 the following October. That means I have been in the country for only 4 years at the moment, but I remember at least one recruiter telling me categorically that this would not be an issue, especially since I turned 18 years old *after* I got back to Canada. Since I already had an answer from a recruiter, I would not have started a thread on the subject, but this one presented a good opportunity for me to have get a confirmation.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



It will not affect you. I spent 2 years living in various countries of the middle east as a military dependant before joining. There'll be a section on the form to this affect. I forget the exact wording, but you're in the clear, as Kincanucks has verified.


----------



## mommyof3

I have searched this before posting, and i am sorry to annoy anyone.  I am seeking information about the Enhanced Reliability ( security...blah blah,blah)  I think I have this already.  I live in Ottawa, I went to Excel HR, a placement agency.  They hire mostly for the fed gov't.  To be accepted by them, I had to complete this....now everyone keeps saying on the different posts, that if you have gone bankruptcy, or have outstanding bills ( ie student loans) you will be denied.

I have horrible credit, I mean horrible...i would nt lend me money either...i say that, but it was from when I was younger, beofre I was even twenty years old...now i have a huge student loan, which i never put a cent on, not for not wanting too...  as well othr little things.  

Anyways, the recruiter for this company, said it was a credit check but not on a personal level, they are looking to see if you have commited fraudulent activities...and it must be, because I was successful....

but the question I have is, I am going to have to claim bankrupcy, will this effect me???...I mean, they gave me one (my clearence ( currently working on secret)) can they take it away, do they expire?? 

curious to know if anyone else appling has the same (similar) situation...


----------



## paracowboy

mommy, (and that's just a creepy thing to type out)

I have no knowledge either way, but I'm sure kincanucks or some other expert will set this straight for you. 

Opinion-wise, I say, go ahead with your application. If it gets approved, great. Start working your butt off and make your credit history just that: history. If it doesn't well, then you have your answer, and can start Plan B. (You do have a Plan B, right?)


----------



## kincanucks

If you declare or have declared bankruptcy you will be ineligible until your bankruptcy is discharged.  If you have any debts that have gone to a collection agency then that debt will have to be addressed before you can be eligible.  Reliability, Reliability, Reliability.  People who have outstanding bankruptcy issues or outstanding debt load that they can't handle are unreliable.


----------



## misfit

Well I'm finally merit listed and soon I'll be a Combat Engineer! I went into the recruiting center about a week ago and heard my favorite line: "Two more weeks, and you should get a call."


Crossing my fingers for June BMQ.

Cheers


----------



## FateumetMeum

Bankruptcy is a positive move towards getting your credit standing back. The CF doesn't want creditors calling your work, as you can generally understand why. So if you declare bankruptcy your creditors are in a way takin care of as long as you understand that once in the forces your personal financing can become military priority and you may be asked to make random reports of your bankruptcy payments in order to keep the finance geeks happy.

The military won't hesitate to garnish wages for bill payments no matter how unimportant you may think they are. They will consistently tell new recruits that the reputation of the forces has to remain strong within the community and its members can't maintain a negative and potentially a legal relationship between you and any creditor.

Apply and be honest with your interviewer. I had terrible credit when applying and was allowed to enter if agreement was signed by me to repair my finances with military advisors. They will help you too, but don't hide what they will obviously see.

Good luck , hoped I helped a little.
Mike the maritime medic


----------



## muffin

I may have misunderstood, but are you applying to the military or for a casual public service job? 
There are people hired here who have had credit problems, and I know a full time civi DND employee who has claimed bankruptcy and is still working. In fact, I know of one who has declared bankruptcy and still manages a DA (or whatever it is called now).

The only time I have seen someone refused employment from DND for enhanced reliability is when the person in question had an old fraud charge. The government takes fraud very seriously.

Declaring bankruptcy is probably your best move at this stage, but remember in most cases, declaring bankruptcy will not negate your student loans. Make sure you speak to someone about it first, and good luck 

muffin


----------



## camochick

I have to jump in and say that bankruptcy is not a positive step towards anything. Even orderly payment of debt or those credit proposals are better than filing bankruptcy. Plus filing bankruptcy can cost you a little chunk of change and it will not get rid of your student loans. You can usually work with your creditors before you end up in a collection agency or having to file bankruptcy. Ignoring the problem just makes it worse (not saying that anyone is doing this, just saying that working in collections for a little while I have seen people who just don't want to aknowledge their debt for years and they end up in a bigger mess than when they started). When dealing with student loans, you can usually pay something  and keep yourself out of the collection agency.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

muffin said:
			
		

> I may have misunderstood, but are you applying to the military or for a casual public service job?
> There are people hired here who have had credit problems, and I know a full time civi DND employee who has claimed bankruptcy and is still working. In fact, I know of one who has declared bankruptcy and still manages a DA (or whatever it is called now).
> 
> The only time I have seen someone refused employment from DND for enhanced reliability is when the person in question had an old fraud charge. The government takes fraud very seriously.



I am with Muffin in that I am not sure if you are going civie or military. I actually just signed my approved Enhanced Reliability Clearance with DND in Ottawa this morning. (I am being deployed from another Federal Department to DND as a CS-02.) The CPL went over the forms with me and a credit check was not even selected as part of the clearance. Not sure if that helps...

Good luck.


----------



## Brigada

Does the ERC actually check your high school file ? I've done some not so good stuff, but I've never had problems with the police or anything. Will that change something ?


----------



## Zertz

I am not an expert, but it would help the experts if you could elaborate as to what you did, and what position and component you are applying for.


----------



## Brigada

I've had 4 fights with other students and was caught after having drank a glass of wine before school ; all of that was 2 years ago, I haven't done anything bad since and I have never been suspended. I'm applying for Infantry, NCM.


----------



## garb811

That's it?  You were a kid, being a kid, move on and don't worry about it.


----------



## FAULK

Brigada said:
			
		

> I've had 4 fights with other students and was caught after having drank a glass of wine before school ; all of that was 2 years ago, I haven't done anything bad since and I have never been suspended. I'm applying for Infantry, NCM.



No one is perfect. Just be truthful, & show that you've matured.


----------



## Al1212

If applying to the reserves and especially if applying to reserves intelligence, is it a problem if one of the references is not a Canadian citizen but instead a legal landed immigrant.  Also are the people in the references investigated in any way or just the applicant.   ???


----------



## kincanucks

Al1212 said:
			
		

> If applying to the reserves and especially if applying to reserves intelligence, is it a problem if one of the references is not a Canadian citizen but instead a legal landed immigrant.  Also are the people in the references investigated in any way or just the applicant.   ???



SECTION M
- Character references must be colleagues, peers, and friends who have known you well for over three years and should be able to cover your non-work environment and activities.
- Character references are NOT to include relatives and MUST be residing in Canada.
- Faster processing is facilitated if references listed are in your geographic area.
- Neighbourhood reference is an individual who has known you for over six months preferably at your current address. If not, the individual has been a neighbour during the past five years.

The instructions don't say anything about references being Canadian citizens but it would be better.

_Also are the people in the references investigated in any way or just the applicant. _ 

No they ask for the information because it fills up the space on the form.  Shake your head.

HH


----------



## randyh81

I passed my security clearance in during BMQ, got it back at the end of the course with a note that says ready for QC on it. Does that mean its getting processed? or is there something else i should do with it?


----------



## kincanucks

randyh81 said:
			
		

> I passed my security clearance in during BMQ, got it back at the end of the course with a note that says ready for QC on it. Does that mean its getting processed? or is there something else i should do with it?



It means that it has been electronically submitted to DPM Sec 2 and it is in the queue for a Quality Check by them.


----------



## randyh81

kincanucks said:
			
		

> It means that it has been electronically submitted to DPM Sec 2 and it is in the queue for a Quality Check by them.



thank you, so is there anything else i have to do at my end


----------



## kincanucks

randyh81 said:
			
		

> thank you, so is there anything else i have to do at my end



Not unless someone asks you.


----------



## majidsabra

First of, i would like to thank the makers of this site for there commitment to help and inform those whom are not part of the forces yet. This is my situation..

I submitted my on-line application a month ago and received a call for my aptitude testing on The 29th of June. After successfully finishing the test we were handed back our applications and told to sign it and state our religion? 
I am Muslim and am wondering if they accept Muslims in the army or are we considered a security threat? After handing in the application i was asked if it has been 10 continuous years that i have been living in Canada immediately prior to applying.

 I came to Canada in 1993 when i was 6 years old from Lebanon and lived here until the age of 14 (2001) where i moved to Dubai because my mother moved there and i had no choice.I did not stay there for long(about 1 1/2) and came back at the age of 16 and have been here ever since.

They first gave me the pre sec clearance on steroids but after reading one of kinnakucs posts on they new rules that came into place, i went back to my local recruiting center and asked for the shorter version.They told me to hand it in and if everything goes well for me they wont send it to Ottawa.

If i understood well, a person will not undergo the long pre sec clearance if he has been living here since 16 or have travelled less then 180 days on each visit.

I really am interested in joining the infantry and hope i will not be rejected because of my religion or my name or because i had to go live with my mother in a country that has very good relations with Canada.

My question is how does the short security clearance work. They check if you have been indeed living in the addresses you provided for the last 5 years? If so how do they verify this information(just out of curiosity.

If someone can clarify the "after 16 rule ", it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.
Majid


----------



## Kat Stevens

As far as I know, your faith is no barrier to service.  I personally don't care if you worship Buddha, Yahweh, Odin, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  As long as I know you have my back, I will have yours.  Loyalty to Canada and your buddies is what counts, not which direction you face when you pray....Just my opinion, as usual.


----------



## George Wallace

I had a Muslim as a Coyote Driver in B Sqn and my Dentist was also Muslim; so yes Muslims can join the CF.  As for the rest of your concerns use SEARCH and find the answers.  I am now going to merge your question to the topic that you should have found in the first place.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin

Just to add my brief two cents, majidsabra, we had two Muslim _officers_ with Recce Squadron in Afghanistan in 2004/5...  It's hardly a barrier and, given these trying times and the nature of our deployments, can be of considerable benefit to the CF.


----------



## kincanucks

First of all how old are you?

Secondly, I have explained the ERC (5 year check) and the pre-sec changes on this board and I am not about to repeat myself. Search and if you actually have a question that has not been answered then ask away.  No I am not going to explain to you how each part of either the ERC or the pre-sec is carried out.


----------



## majidsabra

I am 19 years old, born march 10 1987 and have been in Canada for 11 years from 1993 to 2002(9 years) and from 2004 until now . 

2002 and 2003 were spent in Dubai(U.A.E).  I had to go there because my mother had a good job oppurtunity and i was 14 at the time so i did not have a choice. . If i understand correctly from mccharts post, if one turned  18 in Canada i am not obliged to undergo the Pre Sec?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## kincanucks

_2002 and 2003 were spent in Dubai(U.A.E)._

Here I go repeating myself again.  Part of the eligibility requirements to join the CF is the Enhanced Reliability Check (ERC) and that goes back five years.  If you have not lived in Canada for the last five years then there may be a requirement to do out of country checks and this requires the taking of your fingerprints and sending them to the RCMP who will then attempt to contact authorities in Dubai to carry out checks there.  That in itself can take a very long time.

_If i understand correctly from mccharts post, if one turned  18 in Canada i am not obliged to undergo the Pre Sec?_

If you are a Canadian citizen and if you have lived in Canada for ten-year continuous period immediately prior to applying or you have lived in Canada since you were 16, whichever comes first then you will not require a pre-sec, unless you come from a scheduled country or have immediate relatives living in a scheduled country.  Follow the directions given by your CFRC/D.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Pre-assessment and security clearance procedures are separate from each other.  Pre-assessment (which you are under going) is required to determine if you are going to be a security risk to Canada based on the fact you were outside the country for more than six months.  This pre-assessment will be conducted regardless if you are going NCM or Officer Reg F or Res F.  The security clearance procedures will be carried out after you are enrolled.




Where does the Enhanced Reliability Check come into play? The CFRC I'm going through says they need to wait for this to come back (at least a year) before they can even start the Pre-Assessment? But according to what you've wrote above they're doing it backwards.

Also, will spending the last 5 years in a NATO/Commonwealth military speed up the process? Or will they not take the MOD's word for it that I was where I said I was on the forms? 

thanks in advance!


----------



## kitrad1

The ERC ( known as the CRNC - Criminal Record Name Check Credit Check), must be completed before the CFRC can sub,it the pre-security assessment. In the interim, you should be completing (or have already completed) the requisite form.


----------



## kincanucks

In addition, there is a requirement for out of country checks which must be completed prior to the ERC being approved.  ERCs only come back in two to three business days if you have spent the last five years in Canada.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

and it's these out-of-country checks, along with the ERC (taking into account I've lived in the UK for the past 5 years), which will add up to the 1 year minimum wait until further steps to enrol the CFRC quoted me? I'm just checking to make sure it is indeed 1 year min......not that I'm jumping for joy about it but such is life....and yeah I've completed both the pre-sec and ERC


----------



## kincanucks

Yes the out of country checks do take considerable time because of the need for the RCMP to go to the authorities of your previous country of residence to have a criminal check done on you.  The only thing going in your favour is that it may be faster given you are from a commonwealth country so it might not take a year.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

thanks for the advice! I'm keeping my fingers crossed it won't take a year.

the really frustrating thing is... I could go to any constabulary in the UK, and get a UK criminal records check done myself within a week. Granted it may not be the same as the RCMP doing it but it is still official, and covers all of the great britain and northern ireland.


----------



## kincanucks

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> thanks for the advice! I'm keeping my fingers crossed it won't take a year.
> 
> the really frustrating thing is... I could go to any constabulary in the UK, and get a UK criminal records check done myself within a week. Granted it may not be the same as the RCMP doing it but it is still official, and covers all of the great britain and northern ireland.



Perhaps you should do that as it may help your situation.

Note to all Canadian citizens who have lived in other countries in the last five years prior to applying to the CF.  Get a criminal and credit check done in that country before you leave.  For the USA that includes a FBI check.  As long as the checks are done officially and recently a CO/Det Comd _may_ use them to make a quicker decision on your reliability.


----------



## Springroll

Unless you were there due to a NATO posting of a family member or spouse. 
Then the extras are not required. You will do the regular security check.


----------



## kincanucks

Springroll said:
			
		

> Unless you were there due to a NATO posting of a family member or spouse.
> Then the extras are not required. You will do the regular security check.



While you may have escaped doing this, perhaps because Halifax was being nice to you or that you had been back in Canada for a couple of years when the check was done, I can assured you that family members of service members on NATO postings don't get a free pass because of that posting.  Family members have been known to commit crimes and get bad credit while in other countries.

DA


----------



## Springroll

kincanucks said:
			
		

> While you may have escaped doing this, perhaps because Halifax was being nice to you or that you had been back in Canada for a couple of years when the check was done, I can assured you that family members of service members on NATO postings don't get a free pass because of that posting.  Family members have been known to commit crimes and get bad credit while in other countries.
> 
> DA



I am not sure why they would be just being nice to me when they have rules to follow. At the time when my application went in, we had only been back in Canada for just 11 months. It did take them 6 days to get back to me and let me know that the additional paperwork would not be necessary because we had been NATO posted.  It may have helped that I had to have a criminal record check done down there for my line of work, and I did present them with this information, but they did not want it and did not make copies. According to them, since it was a NATO posting, the extra paper work was not needed for me to enrol. We had resided in the US for 3 years.

I do agree that there have probably been some incidences where families have been in trouble with the law.
I did not encounter any while I was down there, but it wouldn't surprise me if there had been issues before and after we left.


----------



## kincanucks

Springroll said:
			
		

> I am not sure why they would be just being nice to me when they have rules to follow. At the time when my application went in, we had only been back in Canada for just 11 months. It did take them 6 days to get back to me and let me know that the additional paperwork would not be necessary because we had been NATO posted.  It may have helped that I had to have a criminal record check done down there for my line of work, and I did present them with this information, but they did not want it and did not make copies. According to them, since it was a NATO posting, the extra paper work was not needed for me to enrol. We had resided in the US for 3 years.
> 
> I do agree that there have probably been some incidences where families have been in trouble with the law.
> I did not encounter any while I was down there, but it wouldn't surprise me if there had been issues before and after we left.



Well I have thoroughly checked the books for any reference to dependants not being required to provide the information so I don't know what Halifax was using as a reference but c'est la vie.  I only want to caution you on making blanket statements such as:

_Unless you were there due to a NATO posting of a family member or spouse. 
Then the extras are not required. You will do the regular security check. _ 

Just because it happen to you it may not apply to others and each applicant's experiences at a CFRC/D, unfortunately, can be different.  Cheers.


----------



## chupracabra

I had to do an enhance security check as I was in Japan for over a certain period in the last ten years. Who the hell are CSIS going to talk to? Do they even have Japanese speaking agents? The only reson I ask is that they seem so utterly incompetent I can't see them doing any check that will amount to any good. Remember the incident when a CSIS computer was stolen from a car and had thousands of people's private info on hard drive? It seems a little overboard to me, just my opinion. If we are so concerned about security, why is it we are letting in thousands of Lebanese flood into the country due to the recent conflict? Just a classic case of targeting the wrong people! You want to put your life on the line for your country - then wait up to 5 years of jumping through hoops and nonsense, but if you were seriously considering coming to the country to blow something up, shit, come on in!


----------



## AmmoTech90

chupracabra said:
			
		

> I had to do an enhance security check as I was in Japan for over a certain period in the last ten years. Who the hell are CSIS going to talk to? Do they even have Japanese speaking agents? The only reson I ask is that they seem so utterly incompetent I can't see them doing any check that will amount to any good. Remember the incident when a CSIS computer was stolen from a car and had thousands of people's private info on hard drive? It seems a little overboard to me, just my opinion. If we are so concerned about security, why is it we are letting in thousands of Lebanese flood into the country due to the recent conflict? Just a classic case of targeting the wrong people! You want to put your life on the line for your country - then wait up to 5 years of jumping through hoops and nonsense, but if you were seriously considering coming to the country to blow something up, crap, come on in!



Why were you there?  Last ten years falls into a time when the JRA was still slightly active... http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/jra.htm
Should CSIS take your word for it that you aren't involved with them?

As BBJ said, suck it up.


----------



## IrishCanuck

chupracabra said:
			
		

> I had to do an enhance security check as I was in Japan for over a certain period in the last ten years. Who the hell are CSIS going to talk to? Do they even have Japanese speaking agents? The only reson I ask is that they seem so utterly incompetent I can't see them doing any check that will amount to any good. Remember the incident when a CSIS computer was stolen from a car and had thousands of people's private info on hard drive? It seems a little overboard to me, just my opinion. If we are so concerned about security, why is it we are letting in thousands of Lebanese flood into the country due to the recent conflict? Just a classic case of targeting the wrong people! You want to put your life on the line for your country - then wait up to 5 years of jumping through hoops and nonsense, but if you were seriously considering coming to the country to blow something up, crap, come on in!



Rage on. I bet flaming the people you want to work faster by calling them "incompetent" works real well for you. The "efficiency" of CSIS has nothing to do with what you may or may not have done in Japan. 

So stop crying and be patient if you really want to "put your life on the line for your country". Canada doesn't need raging meatshields, it needs mature , intelligent professionals in its Armed Forces.

Classy.


----------



## Remius

chupracabra said:
			
		

> I had to do an enhance security check as I was in Japan for over a certain period in the last ten years. Who the hell are CSIS going to talk to? Do they even have Japanese speaking agents? The only reson I ask is that they seem so utterly incompetent I can't see them doing any check that will amount to any good. Remember the incident when a CSIS computer was stolen from a car and had thousands of people's private info on hard drive? It seems a little overboard to me, just my opinion. If we are so concerned about security, why is it we are letting in thousands of Lebanese flood into the country due to the recent conflict? Just a classic case of targeting the wrong people! You want to put your life on the line for your country - then wait up to 5 years of jumping through hoops and nonsense, but if you were seriously considering coming to the country to blow something up, crap, come on in!



CSIS will be talking to whoever they are supposed to.  And yes as a matter of fact they do have Japanese speaking agents.  Also some of the authorities in Japan can speak english.

I realise that you are frustrated but it is a matter of patience.  The appropriate authorities will do whatever backround check is necessary.  It might seem stupid but there are a variety of things that need to be checked.  Criminal activity is one of them.  Let's say you broke the law in Japan.  And you hightail it back to Canada.  It could have been a minor infraction, whatever.  Next thing you know, you're being deployed to a country where you may or may not be wanted for a crime.  Good one.  Now you've created a whole mess the CF didn't want to have to deal with in the 1st place.  These background checks aren't just for rooting out terrorists or criminals, but also to avoid administrative burdens.

Everyone is a case by case basis.  The system isn't perfect but hopefully some of the Ombudsman's recommendations about security cleareance will be implemented.

I sympathise with your dilema but I don't think you're thinking straight on this one.


----------



## GO!!!

Chalupa,

I personally find it pretty amusing that the federal departments you hold in such disdain are the same ones you are applying to work at.

It must be absolutely *infuriating* to have to *beg* for _years_ for a job from such incompetents. 

You already seem to know everything - what could the CF possibly teach you?


----------



## Sig_Des

chupracabra said:
			
		

> It is public record on how badly the CSIS conducts its affairs, I was merely echoing that opinion, which I feel is true. I am not applying to work for CSIS as you say, I am applying to the Cf, not the same thing the last time I checked.



Both Federal Agencies which serve in the best interest of Canada's National Security and Defence? Besides, you don't know what kind of a good track record CSIS has as opposed to any "badly conducted affairs". 17 potential terrorists in Toronto...Think the sneaky squirrels may have had a hand in that? Please don't criticise an agency when you don't have any first-hand knowledge of the complete picture. We get that enough of the military, and I can empathize with CSIS



			
				chupracabra said:
			
		

> Anyone who has gone through it knows it is insanely long, invasive and sometimes insulting



I went through it...took a damned long time, nearly almost 2 years. Most of the problems in the recruiting process were administrative, and they are being addressed. As far as invasive or insulting, I never thought so. When we are researching wether people are fit to be defending this country, while giving them access to protected information, equipment and weapons, I say be as thorough as possible.

If you think it's too long, talk to some of the guys who waited 2+ years, kept at it, and are very satisfied with their military careers. Those who really want to be in the military, will wait it out. IF you see problems with the recruiting process, try posting some solutions for debate. Maybe someone who's in a position to bring it up will see it.


----------



## GO!!!

Chimichanga,

As Sig_Des said, what makes you think that you are entitled to serve in the CF? 

You hold yourself in evidently high esteem to believe that you should be permitted to waltz into a country in which you have not lived for a decade, avail yourself of hundreds of thousands of dollars in pay, training and equipment, and then be entrusted with the leadership of others without a detailed inspection of your aptitude, character, claims of education, fitness and trustworthiness?

The CF would be remiss in hiring people without a thorough investigation, especially considering the damage that one idiot can have in a theatre or mission of high profile.

Finally, have you considered that you may be a poor applicant? That your education, reliability and aptitude have been measured against other applicants and found to be lacking? The way the CF makes offers of employment is that it makes them to the best applicants first. Since you've been waiting what, four years now, maybe you should consider the possibility that you are out of your depth in applying for a job with the CF.

Keep up that positive attitude though!


----------



## GO!!!

chupracabra said:
			
		

> I have considered that, and no, as a honor grad, I am not too worried about that.


Education and intelligence are two totally different things - I get good marks too!



> And I am going on 4 and a half years now due to no fault of my own. It's funny that I get a ******* verbal warning for calling some ******* a jerk, but some wiseass like you can insult my intelligence and nobody will say crap!


It was more of a suggestion - food for thought if you will.



> Must be a good close group of buddies here? By the way, I was born here, I merely taught English in Japan like thousands of other Canadians - not something I feel I should be subjected to a security clearance that takes up to 2 years and asks ridiculous questions ...


The trick is to be polite and somewhat articulate.(simple for an honors grad) You can say whatever you wish as long as it is constrained within the conduct guidelines.



> ...like who my wife's half brother is and what he does for a living.


How do we know he's not a member of international organised crime? Or a terrorist? Or an NDP supporter? (kidding on the last one) we don't so the checks have to be done.


----------



## Insignia

Okay so I previously had obtained an Enhanced Reliability Stauts for another government position I had worked but what happened was that there was an incident at work and I resigned from my job.  The incident was basically some lewd pictures of me and a girl were posted online and my employer found out somehow.  Anyways I received a letter informing me that he was revoking my Enhanced Reliability Status.

Now I have applied to the Canadian Military and understand that I have to complete an Enhanced Reliability Status check and am wondering whether I have shot myself in the foot with this incident.  

Any input would be great!  Thanks!


----------



## kincanucks

Insignia said:
			
		

> Okay so I previously had obtained an Enhanced Reliability Stauts for another government position I had worked but what happened was that there was an incident at work and I resigned from my job.  The incident was basically some lewd pictures of me and a girl were posted online and my employer found out somehow.  Anyways I received a letter informing me that he was revoking my Enhanced Reliability Status.
> 
> Now I have applied to the Canadian Military and understand that I have to complete an Enhanced Reliability Status check and am wondering whether I have shot myself in the foot with this incident.
> 
> Any input would be great!  Thanks!



You will have to indicate on the form whether or not you had a ERC before but that is it.  The ERC checks for criminal and credit checks but either your boss is out to lunch or you are leaving out some details because this sounds strange.


----------



## Insignia

Basically this was a private website and we all went out after work one night to a local pub and got hammered.  There were some drunk american girls there and some pics were taken.  The pics were later posted onto a website where it was made clear where I worked.  Thats all the details there are.  In the letter it says I severed the bond of trust with the employer.

I am just curious to when they go do the ERC, if they will pass me over since I already had one before and then lost my status.


----------



## kincanucks

Insignia said:
			
		

> Basically this was a private website and we all went out after work one night to a local pub and got hammered.  There were some drunk american girls there and some pics were taken.  The pics were later posted onto a website where it was made clear where I worked.  Thats all the details there are.  In the letter it says I severed the bond of trust with the employer.
> 
> I am just curious to when they go do the ERC, if they will pass me over since I already had one before and then lost my status.



No but if they ask then tell them what happened.


----------



## Insignia

kincanucks said:
			
		

> No but if they ask then tell them what happened.




I resigned from the position in july and I JUST got the letter today, and applied a week ago thats why I was concerned.  I have nothing else in my history at all when it comes to criminality and whatnot.

I would definately tell them what happened as in my opinion it was a stupid thing to get worked up about, but I can understand where my employer was coming from.  Live and learn I guess.  Thanks!


----------



## uzi

Hi everyone:
i have a simple question. if i am under security clearence, could i leave Canada for 2-3 weeks to a none nato country? will it mean a more complicated investigation? will i be deleted from the list? or no difference?


----------



## Meridian

Are you asking if, once you have been cleared, and signed the briefing documents, if you leave Canada and go to a scheduled or non-NATO country, could this cause problems?


----------



## Cloud Cover

uzi said:
			
		

> Hi everyone:
> i have a simple question. if i am under security clearence, could i leave Canada for 2-3 weeks to a none nato country? will it mean a more complicated investigation? will i be deleted from the list? or no difference?



No, once you have gone through a security background check and it has been determined that you are trustworthy, the policy then becomes that you cannot be trusted when you visit another country. As a result, you can only visit approved exotic destinations such as Selkirk, Manitoba or, if you really want to rock, Dome Creek, British Columbia [but only in January/February].


----------



## Barracuda13

HI guys

I just want to tell my situation and see what you think and see if there s anyone else in this situation. I applied for CEOTP pilot around February march of this year and i ve done everything from the interview to medical , cfat and so on. anyways couple of weeks ago they sent me to aircrew selection and i passed the pilot and navigator then the medical at DRDC , anyways so i thought i have done everything i could and now it was up to the selection board. However this week I received a phone call from the rec centre and they asked me when did I come to Canada. FYI I was born in Paris , France and raised in Istanbul Turkey and I came to Canada in 98 became an immigrant in 2000 and then I got my citizenship and haven t left Canada ever since. Now after all of these they told me that I might have to do an another security check for time in Turkey , I was clean in Canada of course, and They said it was because I haven t been in Canada for the last 10 years. They also said it might take a year. Now I understand that , of course military shouldn t take everyone that applies, but i dont know why i wasn t investigated when i first applied. I mean I already passed everything and now you tell me that it might take up to a year to do this background check. What do you guys think about this? Shouldn t they do this when I first applied before sending me to the med and ACS and so on. I honestly don t understand it, even though i am disappointed , I still want to be a part of the Canadian forces family. I really don t know what to think , I was waiting for a decision and this came up, a security check after 10 months... I talked to the captain at the rec centre he was really helpful but he said they may have to do that check and it may take a year. Right now i don t know what to say, I think that most of the people here can associate with me on having a passion for flying and serving your country. I just wanted to share this because I really feel bad. Also I would like to thank the guys who gave a lot of advice on ACS it really helped, Thank you


----------



## kincanucks

Barracuda13 said:
			
		

> HI guys
> 
> I just want to tell my situation and see what you think and see if there s anyone else in this situation. I applied for CEOTP pilot around February march of this year and i ve done everything from the interview to medical , cfat and so on. anyways couple of weeks ago they sent me to aircrew selection and i passed the pilot and navigator then the medical at DRDC , anyways so i thought i have done everything i could and now it was up to the selection board. However this week I received a phone call from the rec centre and they asked me when did I come to Canada. FYI I was born in Paris , France and raised in Istanbul Turkey and I came to Canada in 98 became an immigrant in 2000 and then I got my citizenship and haven t left Canada ever since. Now after all of these they told me that I might have to do an another security check for time in Turkey , I was clean in Canada of course, and They said it was because I haven t been in Canada for the last 10 years. They also said it might take a year. Now I understand that , of course military shouldn t take everyone that applies, but i dont know why i wasn t investigated when i first applied. I mean I already passed everything and now you tell me that it might take up to a year to do this background check. What do you guys think about this? Shouldn t they do this when I first applied before sending me to the med and ACS and so on. I honestly don t understand it, even though i am disappointed , I still want to be a part of the Canadian forces family. I really don t know what to think , I was waiting for a decision and this came up, a security check after 10 months... I talked to the captain at the rec centre he was really helpful but he said they may have to do that check and it may take a year. Right now i don t know what to say, I think that most of the people here can associate with me on having a passion for flying and serving your country. I just wanted to share this because I really feel bad. Also I would like to thank the guys who gave a lot of advice on ACS it really helped, Thank you



Yes the CFRC/D should have done the check in the first place but they didn't and now it has to be done. Just because you have gone through all the processing doesn't mean that this important step gets passed over.  Sucks to be you but it has to be done.


----------



## Spring_bok

They have determined that you are sitable.  That is all.  They will not invest the time and resources to do the background check until you are found suitable.  The fact that you were in Turkey all those years means the security investigation will be a greater challenge than someone who lived in Canada their whole life.  Yes it could take a year, maybe less and maybe more but if you are serious and really want this than I am sure you can hang in there.  Good Luck.


----------



## kincanucks

_They have determined that you are sitable.  That is all.  They will not invest the time and resources to do the background check until you are found suitable. _ 

Wrong.  The procedure is to do the CFAT then the pre-security assessment.  Nothing else.


----------



## Barracuda13

i understand the circumtances, actually they didn t say for sure, and the corporal said that she was going to call Ottawa and ask them, maybe they might use the information from the immigration or citizenship services, if it satifies the military then i might not have to wait. 

But in any case, i ll hang in here as much as it takes. Sorry for not using the paragraphs, i think my frustration at the time just came out in a big blob  

thanks again guys


----------



## rosco

One question which every new recruit seems to ask seems to be "How long will it take?"

Many wiser posts on this forum state again and again "It all depends on your individual circumstances."

That said this thread applies to individuals who have lived and worked abroad prior to their DND application.

I submitted a DOE - Combat Arms application in Sept 03 and have yet to receive an offer. The bottleneck in the process for me has been the security background check conducted by CSIS. Before my application I spend a number of years teaching in various Asian countries. It took intill Nov 06 to clear the security requirement. Since then I have finished my interviews/medicals and should be hearing back soon. I've been told my file is in Ottawa and an offer is forthcoming.

There must be a number of other recruits who have been in the same situation. I would be interested to hear how similar applications have progressed (or stalled). ;D


----------



## Sig_Des

Actually, interesting enough...

I was talking to someone a couple of days ago who said he'd applied for DEO as an INT O. He was saying that he had to get his Lvl III _before_ he could enter the CF as an INT O.

Now this doesn't make much sense to me, as from personal experience, a LVL III clearance can have a 2+ year turn-around time.

I took it with a grain of salt, as I presumed that buddy was talking out of his ass.


----------



## kincanucks

_ He was saying that he had to get his Lvl III before he could enter the CF as an INT O._

That is BS.


----------



## Sig_Des

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _ He was saying that he had to get his Lvl III before he could enter the CF as an INT O._
> 
> That is BS.



S'What I figured. Thanks Kin...


----------



## uzi

i'm a little confused, if I was told "your background check is not done" means security clearence or background check?


----------



## kincanucks

uzi said:
			
		

> i'm a little confused, if I was told "your background check is not done" means security clearence or background check?



Well it means that your background check is not done.  However, at what point of the processing are you?  How Long?  Are you from another country?  Sometimes CFRC/D personnel confuse the two too.


----------



## uzi

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Well it means that your background check is not done.  However, at what point of the processing are you?  How Long?  Are you from another country?  Sometimes CFRC/D personnel confuse the two too.


my case has run 2 years already. interview was done last Nov; medical last Dec; PT 1 year before; apt test cancelled, because i did it when i joined reserve unit. I am from another country, very unfortunately, china mainland, not a friend with canada.


----------



## kincanucks

uzi said:
			
		

> my case has run 2 years already. interview was done last Nov; medical last Dec; PT 1 year before; apt test cancelled, because i did it when i joined reserve unit. I am from another country, very unfortunately, china mainland, not a friend with canada.



Then it is your pre-security clearance assessment that is being worked on and yes it will take a very long time.


----------



## uzi

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Then it is your pre-security clearance assessment that is being worked on and yes it will take a very long time.



A captain told me I'm under credit and crime history check, hope(wish) it's not long.


----------



## CaNaDiAn_GhOsT

I also ran into problems with my ERC. I had B&E and commit mischief under $5000 (barely :S), B&E and commit mischief, B&E and commit theft, Unlawful enjoyment of property, and Shoplifting. When my fingerprints and everything went through they told me that I had to provide documents from the courts, my probation officer, and a personal letter for proving my reliability. I did these things and within about a month they called me and told me it was cleared. I guess if u prove to them that you've changed and are reliable, you should have no problem getting in with minor offences. (Then again mine were also under the Young Offenders Act, i don't know if this makes a difference)


----------



## Hawkeye

i think waiting is the worse part too mind you it's only been 3 weeks for me i just have to be patient as far as the process goes for me they are in the process of conducting my security check ect... now so all i can do is wait and see


----------



## Port Hope

I am hoping that this thread is not quite dead!

I have been through CFAT, interview and medical.  I had a small glitch with my medical but I have already resolved this with my own doctor. I sent in the form from my doctor last week.  Did my ERC occur immediately after my interview (2 weeks ago) or will it occur only when my medical file is fully processed?
The officer who interviewed me said to expect a call within three weeks or so of having dealt with my medical.


----------



## Wasteland.Soldier

Yes, not quite dead would be nice. A few years ago I was detained by RCMP for marijuana possession in Vancouver. They took my name and birthdate, and my friend had his vehicle impounded and license suspended for 24 hours. He was also charged with impaired driving.

Now that was a long time ago in the course of my life, and I've learned my lesson. But would something like that come up in the ERC? I was never arrested or charged. But I was handcuffed and detained in the back of the police car for a while while they searched my friend's car and gave us a bit of a lecture. And they did take my info. They said it wouldn't go in any criminal record, but I wonder if it might have gone on some other record not accessable to civillian employers.

I'm still in the consideration phase. Just researching a lot and thinking about joining the reserves (I'm a student, so full-time wouldn't work). Haven't talked to a recruiter or anything yet.


----------



## kincanucks

Wasteland.Soldier said:
			
		

> Yes, not quite dead would be nice. A few years ago I was detained by RCMP for marijuana possession in Vancouver. They took my name and birthdate, and my friend had his vehicle impounded and license suspended for 24 hours. He was also charged with impaired driving.
> 
> Now that was a long time ago in the course of my life, and I've learned my lesson. But would something like that come up in the ERC? I was never arrested or charged. But I was handcuffed and detained in the back of the police car for a while while they searched my friend's car and gave us a bit of a lecture. And they did take my info. They said it wouldn't go in any criminal record, but I wonder if it might have gone on some other record not accessable to civillian employers.
> 
> I'm still in the consideration phase. Just researching a lot and thinking about joining the reserves (I'm a student, so full-time wouldn't work). Haven't talked to a recruiter or anything yet.



Does _I was never arrested or charged._ or _They said it wouldn't go in any criminal record_ mean anything to you?  If you had bothered to take the time to read through the information on background checks and ERCs you wouldn't have had to asked such a DA question.  _Just researching a lot _ certainly not demonstrated by this post.  Good Luck.


----------



## wannabenavy2007

A question for anybody who may know the answer, or at least have some idea:

I will soon be submitting my ERC (I belive this is the name of the one that requires 10 years worth of data). I am required to submit this check in addiiton to the 'basic' one as I spent more than 6 months out of the country in the last five years when I completed an internship with an small children's organization in the philippines. this internship was sponsered by DFAIT and administered by a canadian university and I was registered with the embassy when I was there. Does anyone have a snese of whether such a check might take the full two years (or more)?

I recognize of course that no one can tell me anythign for sure; i'm just looking for anything expreince or expertise people might be able to share.

thanks.


----------



## kincanucks

wannabenavy2007 said:
			
		

> A question for anybody who may know the answer, or at least have some idea:
> 
> I will soon be submitting my ERC (I belive this is the name of the one that requires 10 years worth of data). I am required to submit this check in addiiton to the 'basic' one as I spent more than 6 months out of the country in the last five years when I completed an internship with an small children's organization in the philippines. this internship was sponsered by DFAIT and administered by a canadian university and I was registered with the embassy when I was there. Does anyone have a snese of whether such a check might take the full two years (or more)?
> 
> I recognize of course that no one can tell me anythign for sure; i'm just looking for anything expreince or expertise people might be able to share.
> 
> thanks.



No it is called a Pre-Security Assessment not an ERC.  Unless you were specifically working for a Canadian government organization you won't get any breaks.  However, check with your CFRC/D for more info. And it is Canadian not canadian.


----------



## HaZarD SFD

I have started my application back in december.  I have lived in the states for about 8 years and I did the FBI Identification Request myself.   I have it all handed in and now
im just waiting for the call to do my aptitude test.  I just dont know why its taking soo long.


----------



## medaid

Patience is the key. I generally tell my applicants to wait approximately 6-8 months. Also if you lived out of country for 8 years, there's alot of people the cell has to talk to or check on priro to granting you the ERC. Good Luck.


----------



## Keebler

Sounds like it is already in that phase...they are checking your background out!!  When i had my aptitude test, there was a guy who lived in the US for a couple years and he was advised that the ERC could take about a year before it cleared, so to not expect a call anytime soon for the medical and interview. Be patient, it will happen soon enough and time will fly by. My whole application process took about 8 months from the time i submitted my online application to my offer.  Some are very quick, but it depends on how quickly they need to push you through. My trades were not hiring until the new fiscal year and once that came into play, they loaded me for a course to be in line with my trades training so i wasnt sitting around doing nothing for months on end.  If you are going for a trade that they can hire from the recruiting centre, once you have finished your interview and medical it should go fast for your offer. Sounds like the biggest delay is the fact you lived in the US.


----------



## Keebler

I would just suggest that maybe give them a call every 3 or 4 weeks and see if there is any updates, otherwise, just be patient. Even though you did your own FBI stuff, they still need to check to make sure things are in order. Takes a bit of time. I have lived in Canada all my life and have not travelled anywhere outside of Canada or the US, and my ERC took about 4 weeks, then they had to get more information from me and it took another 2 weeks. So really all depends on what they need to check everything out. They have their processes and we just need to HURRY UP AND WAIT!!  ;D


----------



## alvin52

I finished my CFAT about a week ago and the cpl at CFRC said that all security checks wwere finshed and i should make the summer courses. However, I've lived outside Canada for the past 6 years and I was wondering if my checks are really finished. However, my recruiter at the reserve unit said these checks could take up to 2 years and I;m wondering if my checks are really finished or not.

Thanks


----------



## SweetNavyJustice

Do you have something to fear with your security clearences.....??  just kidding.  

If the recruiter says that your enhanced reliability check is finished, I don't think that they are lying to you.  

Depending on the trade you are going in to, you may require a higher security clearence level.  Depending on a number of factors, the background investigation, the time it takes to get this clearence could take between 1 and 2 years.  

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.


----------



## stealthylizard

If you have been told a certain time length for how long it should take, and haven't heard anything after that period, give them a call.  They are not going to bite your head off.  They won't blacklist you, or anything else.  Most of them have a lot of applicant files and things can get misplaced, forgotten about, pushed aside, etc.  It isn't something they do on purpose, it just happens.  They will probably tell you what step your application is at, what they are waiting for, and how long it should take, and most likely, a time to call back if you haven't heard anything.


----------



## kincanucks

THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!

The ERC takes days if you haven't got a criminal record or credit issues and it is only a couple more days if you do.  If you are a Canadian citizen and have not lived in Canada for the last ten continuous years or since you were 16 then you will be checked out more thoroughly.  If you are are coming from the States, UK, Australia, New Zealand then it will not take that long but if you are coming from some other faraway place then it will take a lot longer.  Now one more time for the hard of reading:

THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!


----------



## Retired AF Guy

kincanucks said:
			
		

> THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!
> 
> The ERC takes days if you haven't got a criminal record or credit issues and it is only a couple more days if you do.  If you are a Canadian citizen and have not lived in Canada for the last ten continuous years or since you were 16 then you will be checked out more thoroughly.  If you are are coming from the States, UK, Australia, New Zealand then it will not take that long but if you are coming from some other faraway place then it will take a lot longer.  Now one more time for the hard of reading:
> 
> THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!THE ERC IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PRE-ASSESSMENT SECURITY CHECK!!!!



Kin

I know how you feel after reading fifteen pages of this, I was ready to start reaching for the beer and its only 3:48 in the afternoon. I will try to clear-up some of the confusion that seems to to be going around (my apologizes if I repeat some previous posts). Here goes:

- Enhanced Reliability Check. All applicants must successfully complete _prior to enrolment _in the Canadian Forces. The Enhanced Reliability Check assesses whether an applicant can be expected to be reliable and trustworthy in the performance of his or her duties

- Security Clearance Pre-Assessment. Conducted for any applicant who, during the recruiting process, makes a verbal or written statement about a history or behaviour which gives rise to a security concern. It is also conducted _if there are any international implications _related to an applicant. This process _must be completed prior to enrolment _in the Canadian Forces and can only be conducted for _applicants who have successfully completed_ an Enhanced Reliability Check.

- Security Clearance process.  Conducted for all Government of Canada employees, be they military or civilian, after they have received and accepted a position.

The above definitions are extracted from "The Canadian Face Behind the Recruiting Targets. A Review of the Canadian Forces
Recruiting System: From Attraction to Enrolment." Dated June 2006. This report looked into problems involved in the recruiting process. It can be found here: http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/reports/special/recruitment/recruit_e.pdf The definations are found in Issue Four - Security pp 31-36. 

Some other extracts from the report "prior to enrolment, the majority of applicants must only complete an Enhanced Reliability Check, and only under specific circumstances is a Security Clearance Pre-Assessment conducted" and " Enhanced Reliability Check can be completed at local Recruiting Centres with the exception of the criminal records and credit checks, which are conducted by Deputy Provost Marshal Security. If an applicant_ does not appear on either_ the Canadian Police Identification Centre or the Credit Bureau of Canada, the Enhanced Reliability Check can be completed in as little as 72 hours. If problems arise with either check, however, this time may be extended considerably."

If you have been charged with a Criminal Code offense(s), or have/had credit problems you will show-up on the CPIC or CBC databases. Depending on severity of the offense(s) expect a delay in your processing and _possibly_ be refused entry into the CF. 

I hope this helps to clear-up some of the confusion. Before I sign-off, there are a couple of other points I would like to clear-up.

First, kincanucks in one of your previous posts you had this statement: "_He was saying that he had to get his Lvl III before he could enter the CF as an INT O._" You said "That is BS." Clarification: You can do your basic Int op/officer course with only a Level II (Secret) clearance, but you _will have to be upgraded_ to a Level III (Top Secret) clearance. No TS clearance, its "Hasta La Vista Baby!!" time to find a new trade. 

The other point was with traveling to foreign countries. There is list of "proscribed" countries that CF members have to inform their security officers prior to visiting (e.g.) Cuba, Iran, Syria, N. Korea, etc). See your Unit/Base Security Ofiicer/National Counter-Intelligence Unit (NCIU) for more information. 

I'm finished. Sorry for the long post.


----------



## poseafk

Hello I have a question if someone could help me out with this inquiry.

I have a question in regards to the Credit Check. In my current situation I owe in the ballpark of about $23,000. I have never missed a payment ever, and it is a recent debt that I have built up. I am worried that this debt is going to cause me to fail my credit check. Should I be worried? As said above, I have never missed a payment in my entire history of having credit, never had a problem with creditors or collections, and I have had credit for roughly 6 years. I have had debts before and have paid them off in full. This is a newly acquired debt that my wife and I have agrew from moving from one side of Canada to the other, furnishing an apartment, and consolidating our debts together. It is all under my name currently, but a payment has never been missed now or in the past on my record.

I'm just wondering if this would in anyway effect me passing a credit check, or getting denied from the Military in anyway. If someone could give me some insight/information that would be great. The other parts of the ERC I am not worried about failing.

Thank you.


----------



## kincanucks

_In my current situation I owe in the ballpark of about $23,000. I have never missed a payment ever, and it is a recent debt that I have built up. I am worried that this debt is going to cause me to fail my credit check. Should I be worried? As said above, I have never missed a payment in my entire history of having credit, never had a problem with creditors or collections, and I have had credit for roughly 6 years. I have had debts before and have paid them off in full. This is a newly acquired debt that my wife and I have agrew from moving from one side of Canada to the other, furnishing an apartment, and consolidating our debts together. It is all under my name currently, but a payment has never been missed now or in the past on my record._

Had you taken the time to read the threads on ERC and credit you would have noticed that unless you have debts in arrears or are in Bankruptcy you credit check will come back clean.

DA


----------



## tele1972

Long time listener, first time caller: 
I am in a somewhat situation similar to a poster above.  I initially applied in 2002 but when I told them I had used magic mushrooms in the medical, my application was suspended.  So I moved to South Korea to work while I waited for the ban to be over and I finally reapplied last year.  I was just told South Korea is unhelpful when it comes to security checks, and that my first career option (MARS) requires a higher security clearance which, if I do get it, will take a long,long time.  If I take my second choice (ARMD), it will be quicker and successful. Does anyone out there know a) if this sounds reasonable, or do they want me to be an armoured officer b) why and how much S. Korea is worse than other places c) what is it that takes so long (ie. are they looking into jobs, taxes, residences, etc. ) and if there is something I can do to help?
Another thing that has me confused; when I first went and applied in 2002, I was at the stage of interview, physical and CFAT, and I thought the security clearance came after.  After I asked about reapplying, they said the first step is the security clearance and that I do the other steps (besides CFAT, which they said is still valid) later.  Did this change between then and now?  I am assuming they are doing a more in-depth security check because of my admission to using drugs, (not just the enhanced reliability check) correct? 
Thanks in advance for any responses


----------



## stealthylizard

They have to go through the South Korean government as part of your history living there.  When it comes to involving foreign bureaucracies, it greatly adds to the length of time needed to do a security check.  I don't know what MARS is, sorry, but it probably requires a deeper check than armoured, which is why they said armoured would be quicker.


----------



## tele1972

I was thinking that S.Korea may take longer because when a foreigner lives here under most visas, their employers are obligated to get them housing.  The housing I listed on my clearance will actually be listed in my employers name or another Korean employees.  Is there anything else they check?  I find it interesting they also didn't ask for my foreign registration number, as that is what the Korean government here does everthing by.  Damn- I could be an old man before I get in.  
Another thing:  Are these reliability checks the same as those for other government branches? IE. If I was applying to, say the foreign service, and they had to do a check,m I would have the same problem? I should warn other teachers here if that is the case...thanks again


----------



## stealthylizard

If it is a government security background check, it will most likely be the same regardless of which branch of the government.


----------



## beands

I am curious, because I have what LOOKS like a poor track record of maintaining a steady job or address, will that hold me back as far as a ERC is concerned?

I don't want to make excuses for what I did, but I followed my friends when they graduated and left the small town, where we grew up, for the big city. Up until I ran into hour shortages and and other typical civilian crap to deal with job hopping.

My credit is about $1200 in debts, but I went and talked to a counsellor today so I could have some of that issue rectified and have my name started on a better track as far as that goes. The lady I spoke with told me my debts weren't high enough to really justify using a session and repayment plan, but when I told her I had plans to enlist, she right away said it would be a very good idea to do so I would be rolling in the right direction as far as my credit and the forces are concerned.
As for the criminal end of it all, I am in the all clear. I was fairly well behaved at the young age where I screwed up my credit. Kind of kicking my own arse now for the young foolish things I did. Turns out mom was right all this time with the "smarten up, get a good job and quit moving all the damn time" lectures. 

I'm probably no new special case, but I could not seem to find any information pertaining to my story. I asked about my issue while in the RC, and a WO told the lady talking to me, to later come ask him about a guy who applied with more than 50 addresses and still got in after some time. He said it was a long story and basically just told me to fill out the application and bring it back. He was of no help at all.

So I guess my question is, does the ERC look at my job and address jumping,
and will that hold me back for months to come?
Or do they strictly look at only credit and criminal history?

Thanks for any help in advance!
Beands


----------



## BC Old Guy

beands:
            When you go for your interview, or as a follow-up to your interview, you are likely to be asked about your interesting employment history.  Don't BS the interviewer.  After all, they are trying to assess how reliable you are (after all, it is called a Reliabilty Check/ Reliability Status), and are just as likely to call up some of your former employers, especially if they think you are trying to hide something.


----------



## beands

I have nothing to hide whatsoever. I always planned to be open and honest. Most of my past employers loved what I did for them and the company. As with everything however, when you take candy from a baby they cry. Alot of them made a big deal out of it. Last job for instance, was an apprenticeship. 8 months into it, I was pulled from that site due to lack of work and stuck on another one. Fine, I like the work, I'm more than willing to help the guys out with the overtime. It took less than 2 weeks. Alot of short hours, because foremen didn't want to work a full day. I lose hours I can't pay bills. I scrape by on the measly pay at full hours. I never looked for a pat on the back, but when everyone pissed off and left the crap to me, I did it no complaints. Along comes client and books future work based on MY work. The cheese head of a foreman took my thunder, cut my hours, used the praise from the client to lock himself in for a raise, and then whined to the sub-foreman I didn't like going home early. 
People these days have zero work ethic, no sense of pride, NO understanding of TEAMwork. And to boot, I get the shaft for giving it my all?
The sub-foreman called me when I quit and asked why I didn't come to him.
I'm not gonna cry you a river he said, he did, my feelings hurt stories. He BEGGED to have me back, and when I absolutely refused he got mad and told me I "f***ed him". He even went as far as getting ahold of my mother (I am 23yrs old) and got her to try to reason with me. Wants me that bad. I can't use him for a reference. He wouldn't support my claim to that story. Nothing. I "f***ed him" as he said.

That was the day I finally decided to anty up like I should have done right out of high school. Wanted infantry since I was 12 (no s***). 
I get my hours out of the forces. I get guaranteed work. Even if it's watching paint dry on lockers in garrison. I got something to keep the bills paid.
I can take the crap from higher ups. I get to be a part of something, a TEAM. I learn when I must, and get to help where I can. And of course, when all else fails I get to go blast some shells at range or in theatre. Training, for fun, or the real deal, either way I have been around firearms my whole life and love every recoil of it. 
Making dreams come true now baby.

 (sorry if that seems ranty, my past is a fight I'm sick of fighting. Really just to fight the battles more suited to my dreams)


----------



## Oaken

I have come to understand that an additional security check is required after living more than 180 days abroad with the exception of having lived in a certain list of countries. Unfortunately, Japan is not on that list. I was living in Japan for 11 months on a Japanese government sponsored scholarship. I have two questions:

Would it make sense to provide a photocopy of the visa on my passport plus a few supporting documents from the university I was at in Japan?

Is this going to take up to 12 months? Japan is a friendly country and ally, right? I imagine if I lived in Iran or Pakistan it might pose a problem... but Japan?

I hope to get into the Army Reserves here in Edmonton before the summer training deadline.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Please refer your query to the nearest CF Recuiting Centre. Only they will be able to give you the official and proper answer to your question.

Thanks for looking, and good luck.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## JBoyd

Has anyone here ever had to request a waiver on their reliability status? meaning that due to poor credit you have to show that you are responsible enough to be taking care of it and therefore can be considered as reliable?


----------



## kincanucks

:brickwall:

Ability to pay your debts is the reliability issue.  So if you owe thousands of dollars and haven't made any freaking effort to pay and the debt has gone to collections then you are unreliable.  However, if you have made the effort to pay off your debts then there should be no issue. Now stick the waiver question where it belongs.


----------



## Col.Steiner

kincanucks said:
			
		

> If you have not lived in Canada for the last five years then you have to provide a criminal and credit check from the country you were in because if you don't and the CF has to do out of country checks on you it will take a very long time for those to be completed.  In addition because you have not been in Canada for the last ten-year continuous period you will be subject to a pre-assessment check that can take up to 18 months or longer to complete.  The pre-assessment check will not begin until the Enhanced Reliability Check has been completed satisfactorily.  Have a seat because you are in for a very long wait.





I have been looking for an answer to the following question, and it was touched slightly here in your post above. I have been waiting now for the extended pre-sec to come back as I have been out of country in the last ten years. I have been waiting a hell of a long time now and have hit many roadblocks and because of that have asked many questions at the recruiting center, One very important question that I had asked and I had asked more than once is if , after this 'up to 2 year' wait for the pre-sec, will there be any other bullshit I may have to endure. The answer has been 'no'. But what is this I am reading about me myself personally having to do a credit/criminal check in the country I was in? I remember being told that the 'enhanced reliability check' came back satisfactorily quite a while ago. 
My questions : 1.Could this have already came back well before the pre-sec? If so, was it done for the country I was in or just here in Canada?
                      2. If no, can I get it done faster than the CF? And do they accept it if it comes from me?
                      3. Lastly, why the hell should I have to do this? It is a terrible onus to put on an applicant no?

P.s. I applied at McDonald's but they told me I am much too handsome to work there, so thanks for the link anyways!


----------



## kincanucks

1.Could this have already came back well before the pre-sec? If so, was it done for the country I was in or just here in Canada? Yes as it had to be done before the pre-sec could start and it would be for in Canada only.  If any credit or criminal checks were required for the country(ies) that you were in then they would have asked you to provide them.

2. If no, can I get it done faster than the CF? And do they accept it if it comes from me? See above and only for country(ies) other than Canada.

3.Lastly, why the hell should I have to do this? It is a terrible onus to put on an applicant no?  Get the credit and criminal checks from the other country(ies)?  Well if you waited for the CF to get it done .... and if you want a job....


----------



## PMedMoe

You've probably posted how long you have been waiting but I was wondering how long it has been.  I am *in* the Reg F (have been for 12 yrs) and an update to my security clearance was sent out in Aug 06 and it still hasn't been updated yet.  If it takes that long for someone who is already in, I'm sure the others take longer.


----------



## Lazarus**

In the PRE-ENROLMENT Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionaire in the 2nd page under Biographical Information it asks if I have ever completed a (and I quote) "Government of Canada security screening form" and my answer is yes. 
I received Level 2 clearance working with my parents company for the Army Cadet Base in Ghost Lake, Alberta.

My question is this::

Does this Security clearance improve my chances of being selected? Seeing as how I have already shown reliability by working as a civilian in a base of sorts?

P.S: My criminal record is spotless as well.


----------



## George Wallace

NO.  It only means that they will have to find another document that will have to be 'covered' in the process.  It simplifies the process in that "they will know for sure" that you have done one before, as opposed to blindly looking for one.  There are no shortcuts in the application process.


----------



## Col.Steiner

kincanucks said:
			
		

> 1.Could this have already came back well before the pre-sec? If so, was it done for the country I was in or just here in Canada? Yes as it had to be done before the pre-sec could start and it would be for in Canada only.  If any credit or criminal checks were required for the country(ies) that you were in then they would have asked you to provide them.
> 
> 2. If no, can I get it done faster than the CF? And do they accept it if it comes from me? See above and only for country(ies) other than Canada.
> 
> 3.Lastly, why the hell should I have to do this? It is a terrible onus to put on an applicant no?  Get the credit and criminal checks from the other country(ies)?  Well if you waited for the CF to get it done .... and if you want a job....



Thank you! I asked recruiting if they had any other surprises in store for me (after this pre-sec 2 year wait, my file being lost once and also put in the hands of someone who retired and didn't bother to turn my file in to my file manager, and various other little snags) and they told me 'NO'. Now I know that the word from a recruiter varies from place to place and even when some don't know an answer, they will give a very definative answer regardless, but could after a 2 year wait for this pre-sec, could I have to wait yet again for a criminal/credit check for out of country stuff?

Excuse me if I am a little frustrated, I asked this same question to the French recruiter here in Montreal and what he understood from all of the above is "So , you want to join?" So yes, it is like banging your head on a wall.


----------



## kincanucks

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> Thank you! I asked recruiting if they had any other surprises in store for me (after this pre-sec 2 year wait, my file being lost once and also put in the hands of someone who retired and didn't bother to turn my file in to my file manager, and various other little snags) and they told me 'NO'. Now I know that the word from a recruiter varies from place to place and even when some don't know an answer, they will give a very definative answer regardless, but could after a 2 year wait for this pre-sec, could I have to wait yet again for a criminal/credit check for out of country stuff?


I would guess that once your pre-sec is approved then they will do another Enhanced Reliability Check on you but it would be only for Canada. That is what I have done in the past when I was in recruitting.


----------



## Lazarus**

George Wallace said:
			
		

> NO.  It only means that they will have to find another document that will have to be 'covered' in the process.  It simplifies the process in that "they will know for sure" that you have done one before, as opposed to blindly looking for one.  There are no shortcuts in the application process.



By covered do you mean to cross-reference and triple check to make sure its a legit clearance?
And I also know that there are no shortcuts, but having a previous Government of Canada clearance does help?


----------



## DJS

reading alll of these threads really puit my mind at ease...I had to provide fingerprints and I have been told it could take 3 months as well. ITs been over 2 montths and still Ive heard nothing. My only charge was a stupid DUI over 8 years ago and I still had to provide fingerprints...Well I guess I'll just wait and hope for the best! Wish me luck guys and gals! Hope to see yaz all on the 4th of Feb!!! My fingers are crossed!


----------



## kincanucks

_My only charge was a stupid DUI over 8 years ago and I still had to provide fingerprints..._

Awwww, really.  Perhaps to alleviate this issue in the future getting a pardon might help.  So if my math is right:  you could have applied for the pardon two to three years after the offence and your pardon could have been granted a few years ago.  Go figure. Well your results should be back in another couple of months and then you can move on with your possible military career.


----------



## stealthylizard

I am in the process of filling out my security clearance form (not the ERC), the one where you have to list residences and employment for the last 10 years.  I run into a few problems.  My father's birth date for one.  I tried asking my mom, but they have been divorced for 25 years and she doesn't remember, and forget about trying to find out where he is employed, for all I know, he could be deceased.  It also asks for stepparents, does that include "ex"-stepparents (no longer married)?  I also have a half sister that my mom gave up for adoption and has no contact with and no means of contact.

Jobsite address is another difficulty.  In my line of work in the oilfield, we changed jobsites every month, and it says that it may be different than employer's address.  I have also had different supervisors for each jobsite.  For some previous jobs I don't have the full name or phone number of supervisors.  At least the residences will be fairly easy, but have to try and remember specific addresses from more than 5 years ago.


----------



## George Wallace

Lots of work ahead for you.  Everyone has to do it.  Unless you get it done, your Security Clearance will not go through.  It is as simple as that.  You must account for everything, and leave NO GAPS in time in places that you have lived and worked.  If you run out of space, the instructions clearly state to use another piece of paper.  
No one here can help you, as this is all your personal information and family, and you MUST provide all the information.


----------



## stealthylizard

I just thought some have had similar situations, especially in regards to family.  Specifically, do I need to provide information for my mother's ex-husbands, as they were stepfathers, but aren't any longer?  Or should I add a note to parts where I have no information such as the half sister given up for adoption?


----------



## George Wallace

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> I just thought some have had similar situations, especially in regards to family.  Specifically, do I need to provide information for my mother's ex-husbands, as they were stepfathers, but aren't any longer?  Or should I add a note to parts where I have no information such as the half sister given up for adoption?



Yes and yes.


----------



## stealthylizard

Thank you.


----------



## Roy Harding

Just a thought for you.  When you DO eventually gather all the info (and you will) - KEEP A DAMNED copy so that ten years from now, when you're filling out ANOTHER one, all the hard parts are already done.


----------



## DJS

It's all fine and good what you are all saying but I have basically revolved my life into getting into the forces. My CFRC told me it would take UP to 3 months - no more! If that would have been the case I would have been gone to my BMQ almost 2 months ago. My recruiter told me 3 months and that is what I had my heart set on it has since been four months and I am still fuckin waiting. Its is absolute hell waiting for the phone to ring! HELL!

I am eager, determined and probably in the best shape of my life and most of all I love my country , would be proud to serve it and just can't wait until that call comes in to hopefully tell me I am on my way!


----------



## Niteshade

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _My only charge was a stupid DUI over 8 years ago and I still had to provide fingerprints..._
> 
> Awwww, really.  Perhaps to alleviate this issue in the future getting a pardon might help.  So if my math is right:  you could have applied for the pardon two to three years after the offence and your pardon could have been granted a few years ago.  Go figure. Well your results should be back in another couple of months and then you can move on with your possible military career.



Awwww really.  I didnt know you could get a pardon in just two or three years... wait a minute. you can't. Try three to five years. More often than not, 5. (Three years for summary convictions; and
Five years for indictable offenses.) Also, they are not just issued out nice and quickly like one might think. They take upwards of 18 months (as a minimum) to process, not to mention the 6-months getting all the requisite paperwork together beforehand. While I agree with your sentiment that persons should apply for their pardon as soon as they are able, they are not as easily (and rapidly) obtained as you imply.

Nites


----------



## Dolphado

sorry to bring up an old thread, but i do remember the intense disdain for not searching.  I have a simple question.  For my Level 3 clearence (going Sig Op) I cannot locate or get in contact with my older 3 half sibilings.  The two families (my father's 3 three older children and my mom and dad's 4 younger children) have not been in touch in quite some years. We do manage to get the occasional call once every couple years to say that everyone is still alive, however anytime we attempt to contact my sister again (she's the one that always calls) the number is either disconnected or someone elses.  We have no way of contatcting her to find out her information or that of any of the other two.  Now after alot of mind searching my daddy has been able to come up with the birth place of my oldest brother but has no idea of the day etc. It just gets progressively worse as we go.  To add to it my sister has had several name changes to the point of where we are not even sure of which name she uses.  Now for my form how on earth woudl I explain this, do I make a small side note and add it or do I just write unknown in the appropriate boxes?
Any help at all would be great appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## TheFITZ

Talk to your recruiter about this, they should be able to answer these questions better then most.  It is very important to have all this info before you try to pass your clearence form in.  From personal experience any missing information or out of date information will lead to an obvious delay in the processing.


----------



## Greymatters

Dolphado said:
			
		

> For my Level 3 clearence (going Sig Op) I cannot locate or get in contact with my older 3 half sibilings.  The two families (my father's 3 three older children and my mom and dad's 4 younger children) have not been in touch in quite some years.



Thats an unusual situation!  In such a case, is the onus on the applying person or on the security screeners to track down 'lost' family members?


----------



## Dolphado

Okay so i just got off the phone with the recruiting center. The advise I was given from them was to just fill out what I could like the birth names and what ever little tidbits I could pick up (trust me its not much else) and indicate the reason the other information is unknown.  Hopefully that will be enough


----------



## kincanucks

Dolphado said:
			
		

> Okay so i just got off the phone with the recruiting center. The advise I was given from them was to just fill out what I could like the birth names and what ever little tidbits I could pick up (trust me its not much else) and indicate the reason the other information is unknown.  Hopefully that will be enough



You may be required to sign Statutory Declarations, to be attached to your security form, stating what information is missing, why it is missing and what steps you have taken to get the information.  Ask your CFRC/D about this when you submit your form.


----------



## Alex_M

I have never been arrested, convicted, or even suspected in any crime. *But do they do a lie detector test?* Because I have done a few bad things people don't know about. I'm just wondering how do they do this check. And if there is lie detector test. And what are they looking for in this check and how to they check, Please answer me.
Thank You


----------



## George Wallace

Alex_M said:
			
		

> I have never been arrested, convicted, or even suspected in any crime. *But do they do a lie detector test?* Because I have done a few bad things people don't know about. I'm just wondering how do they do this check. And if there is lie detector test. And what are they looking for in this check and how to they check, Please answer me.
> Thank You



Nice to know.

Have you bothered to read this topic?  I didn't think so.  Perhaps if you do, you will find the answers and won't have to ask the questions.  If you read the Joining Instructions, you will find out about the SEARCH function, which will help you find information, and we won't have thousands of pages with the same questions being asked.....

Sorry for the little rant, but obviously this poster has failed his first PC in his post 'n run..


----------



## jazzy0410

I have a question on Security Pre-Clearance. I tried to look for answers but it's still a litle vague.  I have been living in Canada for over 17 years. I came to canada when i was 8 from bulgaria . and lived in marrocco for 4 years before coming here. Do you think i have to do go troughta pre-clearance check since i haven't been out of the country ever since expect for like small vacation of a week or two.  I know they changed the procedures a while back. I'd really like to know if it applies to me. I was hoping i wouldn't have to wait up to year for the pre-clearance. In a other thread they mentioned something about a schedule contry? But i have no idea what it means!


----------



## George Wallace

jazzy0410 said:
			
		

> I have a question on Security Pre-Clearance. I tried to look for answers but it's still a litle vague.  I have been living in Canada for over 17 years. I came to canada when i was 8 from bulgaria . and lived in marrocco for 4 years before coming here. Do you think i have to do go troughta pre-clearance check since i haven't been out of the country ever since expect for like small vacation of a week or two.  I know they changed the procedures a while back. I'd really like to know if it applies to me. I was hoping i wouldn't have to wait up to year for the pre-clearance. In a other thread they mentioned something about a schedule contry? But i have no idea what it means!



A Search will turn up more information for you.  As you have been living in Canada for the past 17 years (straight I presume) you should have no problems.  That has all been covered in other topics on this matter.

However, you will be required to list the Birth Dates, Places of Birth, Addresses, and Employment of all your immediate Family.


----------



## Col.Steiner

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> So, if you have visited any other country for more than 180 days, you need to declare it on this form.  If you've lived in a country outside of the countries listed, for more than 180 days consecutively, you will have to complete the TBS 330-60E "long form"... which may take 3 years to process.



Not to flog a dead horse, but I was told 2 years ago the wait was 2 years, is this why I have not heard anything back? 2 years is now 3 years? I thought streamlining entailed shorter not longer waiting periods?


----------



## aesop081

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> Not to flog a dead horse, but I was told 2 years ago the wait was 2 years, is this why I have not heard anything back? 2 years is now 3 years? I thought streamlining entailed shorter not longer waiting periods?



We can streamline all we want on our end, the problem usualy lies with the beurocracy of the country (ies) you visited. Theres not a whole lot we can do about that.


----------



## RHFC_piper

OberstSteiner said:
			
		

> Not to flog a dead horse, but I was told 2 years ago the wait was 2 years, is this why I have not heard anything back? 2 years is now 3 years? I thought streamlining entailed shorter not longer waiting periods?



I honestly don't know what to tell ya...   This is the information I get, I just do my job and pass it on.

Keep in mind, with the "long form", it may take up to 3 years (or so I'm told) which doesn't necessarily mean you will be cleared to serve in up to 3 years, it means it may take up to 3 years to get an answer; good or bad.
They don't call it a "long form" just because it's printed on legal size paper. 

And as CDN Aviator stated;


			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> We can streamline all we want on our end, the problem usually lies with the beurocracy of the country (ies) you visited. Theres not a whole lot we can do about that.



There are a lot of countries which we don't have very good ties with, politically... oddly enough, a lot of these countries are the ones which require a long form after visiting.

As for streamlining; I didn't think this particular process had been streamlined...  I know the CT has been streamlined, but the application process seems to be just about the same as when I joined.  But, then again, I only work the initial application part of the big show.


Either way, I'll tell you what I tell anyone else who has to go through the "long form" process; Don't give up.  Periodically check in with the CFRC you deal with and ask for updates (but don't harass them too much).


----------



## George Wallace

Let's leave it at the fact that some people have 'relationships' in countries that do not have  Diplomatic  or reciprocal agreements with Canada, it will take as long as it will take to verify a Security Check on whatever level.  There is no fixed time limit, nor any predictable timeframe, by which a Security Check can be done on a person should a Foreign Government not cooperate with Canada in this process.

There is no way in the world that this can be "streamlined" and that is it.  Final.  End.





This has all been covered before in the Topics on this subject...........................................And that is why we have over 130 pages of redundant Topics in Recruiting.    :


----------



## Col.Steiner

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This has all been covered before in the Topics on this subject...........................................And that is why we have over 130 pages of redundant Topics in Recruiting.    :



Yes, I am sure it has been covered, but I was responding ONLY because I read about the 3 years waiting period, and that was the first time I have come across that number. The recruiting center themselves, as of Monday, still quote me 2 years, so I am under the impression this has changed as of late. Just seems like another reason to believe the recruiters have been blowing smoke up my *** - another year of waiting IS a long time, regardless of where one has been.


----------



## George Wallace

What about the facts stated that everyone has a different history, and not two Security Clearances are the same, so every Security Clearance will take a different amount of time, do you not understand?  2 Years.  3 Years.  Those are not cut in stone.  They are "guestimations".    :


----------



## Lisalee

I've been through the enhanced reliability check.  I was flagged with an incident that happened 25 years ago, that's not the real issue.  I'm being told to pay off 2 bills on my credit report, 1 being a 9 year old credit card bill that came back just this year.  If I made enough money to begin with I wouldn't have those bills showing on my report.  If I could pay them out right, I would.  I can't afford to pay off 1 let alone 2.  And by the time I can, I'm sure there will be a few others showing.  My plan was to improve my future by joining the military, representing my country and protecting it and making good money while I'm at it.
I've passed the the CFAT with multiple options including all my choices, I've passed the medical, I've passed the interview with flying colors.  I have slightly bad credit.  I'm also 41 and female.  I can't wait too much longer before it will become really difficult.

I have a family to support, kids to raise and a point to make.  I'm not giving up but it's not as easy as they make it out to be.  You have to be pretty much perfect to get into the military, that which I'm not.  I don't think I know anyone that is but there must be some as I see and hear of many all the time making it into basic.  Completeing it is another story though.  I'm stubborn enough and dedicated enough to complete such courses.

I enlisted November 2007, I'm still waiting for some miracle that will get me to where I'm destined to be, the Canadian Military.  I continue to try and attain which is requested of me from the Canadian Forces.  We'll see.


----------



## kincanucks

As I use to tell applicants that said they can't pay their debts unless they get in the CF is "The Canadian Forces are not Social Services."  No you don't have to be perfect to join but you certainly have to be trustworthy and having unpaid debts in collection is not an indication of trustworthy.  Good Luck.


----------



## newbie2009

I have held ERC and Level II - Secret clearances through CIISD, at different times, since the mid-1990s as a civilian contractor on various Government of Canada projects with multiple departments. My problem though is the ERC issued by the RCMP was revoked a few years ago as a result of a minor incident that did not affect operational status. The incident was precipitated by severe sleep deprivation over the course of more than 12 months, brought on by chronic stress at work and home. Severe depression (feeling lack of self-worth, slight paranoia, suicidal thoughts) and stretches of mania (excessively high energy level, extremely productive at work and academically, constantly feeling tired whenever I laid down but unable to relax due to "racing mind").  How I survived and functioned at peek efficiency and productivity up to that minor incident I can only attribute to will-power or insanity. In hindsight, I should have seen the doctor and resigned months earlier but instead chose to repeatedly request a release date from my manager to no avail.

I expect this will adversely affect my ability to obtain ERC and/or security clearance in the future. What are my options?


----------



## PuckChaser

newbie2009 said:
			
		

> I expect this will adversely affect my ability to obtain ERC and/or security clearance in the future. What are my options?



You can either apply, or not apply. Be up front and honest on your security questionnaire, and make sure you have good references that will attest to you being an excellent, level-headed citizen. The RCMP will find your old documents, and do all the checking that needs to be done. It may take longer than the average person, but who knows, the issue could be minor in the investigators eyes now, that you could breeze through since your documentation is all on file.


----------



## stealthylizard

Lisalee, find out who is responsible for collecting the debt and contact them and agree on a repayment schedule.  Your debt doesn't need to be paid off, you just have to show you are taking steps to resolve the problem.  I have horrible credit, but it never stopped me from getting in.


----------



## sky777

Hi guys, 
I have got question about  Security Clearence. 
I should write in this form my previous work experience of last 10 years. 
But 10 years ago I lived in another country.(Eastern Europe) 
I can provide name companies, addresses,telephone number.But I am not sure that there is the same supervisor which was 10-7 years ago. 
Second point .In my country not too  much people speak English or French.How to be with this situation? 
For me it is easy to give only my Canadians employers .But what about foreign employers  from different countries?If they don’t speak English or French?Or  company where I had worked  could be moved in another place?


----------



## PMedMoe

sky777 said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> I have got question about  Security Clearence.
> I should write in this form my previous work experience of last 10 years.
> But 10 years ago I lived in another country.(Eastern Europe)
> I can provide name companies, addresses,telephone number.But I am not sure that there is the same supervisor which was 10-7 years ago.
> Second point .In my country not too  much people speak English or French.How to be with this situation?
> For me it is easy to give only my Canadians employers .But what about foreign employers  from different countries?If they don’t speak English or French?Or  company where I had worked  could be moved in another place?



Just fill it out and if the CFRC decides to call any of your foreign employers, it will be their problem to deal with the language barrier.  As far as your supervisors no longer working at the same company, that's life.  It happens everywhere.


----------



## fuzzy806

Lisalee said:
			
		

> I've been through the enhanced reliability check.  I was flagged with an incident that happened 25 years ago, that's not the real issue.  I'm being told to pay off 2 bills on my credit report, 1 being a 9 year old credit card bill that came back just this year.  If I made enough money to begin with I wouldn't have those bills showing on my report.  If I could pay them out right, I would.  I can't afford to pay off 1 let alone 2.  And by the time I can, I'm sure there will be a few others showing.
> 
> During my enlistment process, my credit as well was brought into question. However I had been dealing with a credit counselor prior to my application.  I had taken a job that turned out to be a scam and had left me with 0 income, as a result I had no choice but to default on my payment plan. My recruiting officer had me contact my credit counselor who advised the forces that up until the poor employment choice I had been on top of my plan schedule, and was even paying extra, she also advised the CF that once employment was obtained the payment plan would be reinstated.  This seemed to satisfy the forces that I was attempting to resolve my issues, I just got informed yesterday that I have been merit listed perhaps you could contact a credit service in your area. They are wonderful people who only have your best interests in mind. Just my two cents hope it gives you an option.


----------



## gcclarke

sky777 said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> I have got question about  Security Clearence.
> I should write in this form my previous work experience of last 10 years.
> But 10 years ago I lived in another country.(Eastern Europe)
> I can provide name companies, addresses,telephone number.But I am not sure that there is the same supervisor which was 10-7 years ago.
> Second point .In my country not too  much people speak English or French.How to be with this situation?
> For me it is easy to give only my Canadians employers .But what about foreign employers  from different countries?If they don’t speak English or French?Or  company where I had worked  could be moved in another place?



I also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but significant periods of time living / working overseas can slow down the application process a great deal. Partially due to a language barrier and the logistics of obtaining translators, but mostly due to the threat of Hostile Intelligence Services attempting to plant moles in the CF.

I feel for you, I really do, because your application will likely not go as smoothly as it otherwise should. Your best bet is to give them as much information as you can. Listing both the contact information for the companies you worked for, but also names of supervisors and co-workers. It will always look less suspicous if they are able to talk to _someone_ who remembers you working there. Obviously a supervisor would be best, but if they have moved on, a co-worker is better than nothing. 

If you do know that the company has moved since you worked there, be sure to try and give them both the old address, and the new updated contact information, if you have it available. 

In any case, full disclosure is certainly your best option here. You do not want to give the people performing these checks any inkling of an idea that you are attempting to hide anything from them. That is the quickest way to shut down your application.


----------



## Gary D. in SK

so here's a question.  How are Backcheck and Criminal record check different???  I was told my back check was completed back in April, but I'm still waiting for my Criminal record check to come back????


----------



## LordVagabond

Gary D. in SK said:
			
		

> so here's a question.  How are Backcheck and Criminal record check different???  I was told my back check was completed back in April, but I'm still waiting for my Criminal record check to come back????



From my discussion with the interviewer when I did my Interview part 1, Credit, references, past employment, etc is all done by a company called BackCheck. Your actual criminal/security check is done via the RCMP. As the RCMP does lots of other security checks OTHER than CF, while BackCheck is contracted specifically to the CF, the criminal security check takes a lot longer. 

However, I am only quoting what the 2LT told me during my interview. If anyone has better info, please feel free to correct me


----------



## Gary D. in SK

OK that makes sense I've been through a lot of occupational security checks, and interestingly every time it seems to take longer than the one previous (one would think the contrary).  Well I should be listed come late June then ???


----------



## martr

Backcheck do, from what I understand, more of a "references" check. 

The Reliability Status is done in part by the Recruiting center and completed by DND's security clearance office.

A Reliability Status does involve a verification with the RCMP. As there are literally hundreds of files processed every day just for DND, there's delays. Once the RCMP result comes back, more paperwork is created and then finally the Recruiting center is advised that the Reliability status is granted.

Since there's different players involved and because of the workload, the RS will most probably always take longer than the backcheck verification.


Also, when you get at the Security Clearance level (confidential, secret, top secret), other agencies are involved so it takes even longer.


----------



## Cooldevil789

I was wondering something.

I am in the security clearance phase and from what I know only two of my 3 references have been contacted, should I worry? or is it a possibility that the first two gave me such a good reference that they didn't need the third?


----------



## traviss-g

Hey so I searched before posting, found some similar but nothing that answered my question. I have had my Enhanced reliability check and everything else. While I am waiting to be merit listed and all that I am trying to get a reg. civ. job. My friend works for a recruiting center and she said she can get me a job but I need security clearance first, but she wants to know if the Enhanced reliability check I went through with the CF gives me level II clearance because it would speed things up alot. Anyone know?

Travis


----------



## MikeL

It is not a Level II Secret clearance.


----------



## traviss-g

Is it any level? thanks for helping and sorry for bugging you guys.


----------



## George Wallace

No.

It is Enhanced "RELIABILITY".

They have checked to see whether or not you had a Criminal Record or any major Credit Debt.  That is it.  They did not check into your past very far other to see that you had no major outstanding Criminal/Legal or Credit problems.  

For a Security Clearance they will do a much more detailed look at your past.

You will not get a Lvl II Clearance in the CF until such time as you need one, and you won't need one on BMQ.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

traviss-g said:
			
		

> My friend works for a recruiting center and she said she can get me a job but I need security clearance first, but she wants to know if the Enhanced reliability check I went through with the CF gives me level II clearance because it would speed things up alot.



Huh?  Your friend works at the recruiting center but doesn't know if you did a ERC or Level II Security Clearance?

Something doesn't add up for me.  He/she should know you are going Reg Force Infantry (NCM) and *should* know without a question that you would have only done the ERC...


----------



## traviss-g

Sorry I meant a recruiting agency... like for temps... my bad  .


----------



## MikeL

what temp job requires you to have a Level II clearance?


----------



## traviss-g

IDK, she just said that I need security clearance for a job and that it starts on Monday so unless I already have it I probably wont get it... pays 12$/h too  :-[. Oh well hopeful it wont be too much longer before I get the call, I went in today and they said I was medically fit and my CFAT and interview from last time are still good so soon I should be merit listed!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Your military security clearance doesn't mean dick to a civie job. Doesn't matter anyway, you don't have one. If you want to delve into the world of clearances, back checks, etc, do a search, cause we're done here.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Tempestshade

Hello everyone,
I have been talking to people who are going on the same BMQ as me, and others who are going on different dates. Some of them seem to be stating that they have to fill out a security clearance form. I assume they get this form with their papers that they receive during enrollment.
I already filled one of these out when I completed my application for ROTP(Pilot, Air Nav, and Aerospace), and then when I decided to switch to NCM Ammo Tech I rewrote another one. Is the form I have filled out the same as my fellow recruits, or am I missing a form? Or perhaps should I not worry about it until I get there?

Thank you,
David


----------



## Lil_T

the other security clearance form is TBS/SCT 330-60E (if in english)  It needs all your info for the last 10 years.  Residence, employment, family information, marital status, etc.  It is 4 pages long plus instructions.  This form you take to St Jean with you personally.  It is not the same as the one you did with your application.

You can look up the form online and you'll be able to see if it's the same one or not.


----------



## Tempestshade

I have 330-23E completed, and in my package, and was never informed about 330-60E.

I have already filled out all that information in the security clearance form I filled out with my application.


----------



## Lil_T

yep, 330/23e is the preliminary screening form.  this other one is much more in depth.

have you sworn in yet?  this form was in with the rest of the forms we were given to take home and fill out - will, etc...  if you haven't you will likely receive it then.  If you have already sworn in call your RC and inquire about it.


----------



## Tempestshade

I have sworn in, and I was not given any forms to take home to fill out, just my plane ticket number and other documents to be handed into CFLRS. I will have to call the recruiting center, but it is slightly late for this as it is the weekend, and I leave in a week.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

The second form is used to grant you Level 1, 2, or 3 Clearance. 

Certain trades require this while others do not.

For example Combat Engineers require a Level 2 (Secret) clearance for specific parts of our tasks.


----------



## Lil_T

well there you go.  I'm pretty sure though that everyone at my swearing in got one of these forms to fill out.


----------



## Tempestshade

I am going to guess that I would need a clearance level as I am enrolling as an Ammo Tech, but I may be wrong. And none of the people I enrolled with were given any forms to fill out, the recruiter didn't mention anything like this. Actually the enrollment was greatly unorganized at the time so I would not be surprised if it was forgotten.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

You would probably need to get one either before your trades course or while on it.


----------



## George Wallace

When you apply to join the CF, you are signing forms to do Security/Credit checks.  You are not filling out forms for a Security Clearance.  You will not fill out Security Clearance forms, which may look similar to some forms you have filled out already, until such time as you are successfully through BMQ and entering into Trades Trg.  Again: you do not start your Security Clearances on application to the CF.  There are not enough people processing them to do so, and it is a waste of their time to do a Clearance on a person who may never make it through the process to start BMQ.  That takes away from the time they could have spent on doing a Clearance on a person who actually needs it.


----------



## Tempestshade

Alright, so to clarify, it is alright that I do not have a Security Clearance form at the moment? And I perhaps will not have to fill one out until I complete my BMQ?

Off Topic: George Wallace, as much as I find you harsh sometimes, I do greatly appreciate you replying to my topic as I am assured that what you are telling me is true(Judged upon your previous reliability of your posts). I now realize why you strive for people to not answer questions unless they know what they are talking about. Takes a question I really need answered to realize this.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Tempestshade said:
			
		

> Alright, so to clarify, it is alright that I do not have a Security Clearance form at the moment? And I perhaps will not have to fill one out until I complete my BMQ?



You are good to go......


----------



## George Wallace

Tempestshade said:
			
		

> Alright, so to clarify, it is alright that I do not have a Security Clearance form at the moment? And I perhaps will not have to fill one out until I complete my BMQ?
> 
> Off Topic: George Wallace, as much as I find you harsh sometimes, I do greatly appreciate you replying to my topic as I am assured that what you are telling me is true(Judged upon your previous reliability of your posts). I now realize why you strive for people to not answer questions unless they know what they are talking about. Takes a question I really need answered to realize this.



You will be through your BMQ and SQ/BMQ(L) training long before you need to worry about your Security Clearance.  In the majority of cases you will need a CF email account before you will be doing any Security Clearance, as it is sent to you electronically to submit electronically to D Secur 2.  Hard Copies are printed off by your Unit Security Supervisor and sent in to D Secur 2 with your original Signatures (in Blue Ink) and if anything over Level II, other docs such as  photos, etc. are also enclosed.  You will have to be fingerprinted for Level III.  The higher the Clearance you need the more that has to be done.  Note now: if you were not born in Canada, make sure you have your Citizenship Certificate handy, as a TRUE COPY of it must also be submitted for higher Clearances.  Never throw away any of the information you have gathered to complete these forms, as you will be resubmitting that info every ten to five years, depending on the Clearance level you hold.


----------



## Otis

I actually got a call from St Jean last week asking for info from someone's Application so that they could complete the forms for the Security Check ... and THAT person's enrolment was late June ... so I think they are completing forms DURING BMQ to start the Security Clearances George.

Just FYI ...

Otis


----------



## ltmaverick25

I do not beleive ammo techs require a security clearance, which is likely why you were not given those forms.  There are other trades who will require a clearance to do their trades training and be employable in their trade once training is complete.  For those people, security forms are initiated ASAP because the process takes time.  They do this in the hopes that it will be complete for the time they need it.  Again, I am almost positive your trade does not require that.


----------



## JBoyd

Otis said:
			
		

> I actually got a call from St Jean last week asking for info from someone's Application so that they could complete the forms for the Security Check ... and THAT person's enrolment was late June ... so I think they are completing forms DURING BMQ to start the Security Clearances George.
> 
> Just FYI ...
> 
> Otis



I can add a bit of confirmation to that as well. During my short BMQ stint in Feb 08 we had to have our 330-60E's filled out and handed in during Week 0. We all gathered at the Bistro and sat down with someone who went over it to make sure all the information was there.


----------



## George Wallace

Otis said:
			
		

> I actually got a call from St Jean last week asking for info from someone's Application so that they could complete the forms for the Security Check ... and THAT person's enrolment was late June ... so I think they are completing forms DURING BMQ to start the Security Clearances George.
> 
> Just FYI ...
> 
> Otis





			
				JBoyd said:
			
		

> I can add a bit of confirmation to that as well. During my short BMQ stint in Feb 08 we had to have our 330-60E's filled out and handed in during Week 0. We all gathered at the Bistro and sat down with someone who went over it to make sure all the information was there.



Giving people the forms to fill out, and actually processing them are two different things.  I will not say that these were not processed, but I won't say that they were either.  As I said in a previous post, these are submitted electronically, and the hardcopies mailed in after that is done; which means a USS had to do that themselves.  That is a fair amount of work.  The member getting the Clearance is supposed to have a DWAN Outlook Acct to do so.  This would not be the first time that someone prepared their people for a future requirement by giving them the forms to research and fill in, so that they will have their information all ready when the time comes.  I have seen some people take up to eight months to gather all that information.


----------



## Smity199

so what would happen if you made it through BMQ and then it turned out you didnt pass the security clearance??


----------



## Michael OLeary

Smity199 said:
			
		

> so what would happen if you made it through BMQ and then it turned out you didnt pass the security clearance??



That would most likely depend on what your trade was, and what security clearance would be required to serve in that trade (even if it might not be required until later in your career).  If there was a conflict between trade and security clearance it could lead to a trade reassignment, or release if the problems identified were serious enough.


----------



## roninfrmca

Hello Folks,

Good Day.

I need help about about enhance reliablity security check. I was terminated from my last job because of misconduct issues.somebody dialed long distance calls from my desk while i was not at my desk.now i need to go through enahance reliablity security check. other than this i have no issues happened with me ever.

will there be any problem? will i fail the security check? does csis confirms with your previous employer the reason of termination? i would appreciate any answers or suggestions. Thanks you all.

Regards.


----------



## FDO

Everybody that goes through the process needs to have "ERS" done. No matter what they've done in their past. A check will be done with your former employer. If it's the only bad report out of the 5 and the rest are good or very good. You should be okay.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

I think the fact that you have been out of country and, by the looks of some of your posts on some immigration sites, have landed status might lengthen things also.

...and please, use proper capitalization.


----------



## FDO

If you are NOT a Canadian Citizen then it's not going to happen. Back in April the doors were opened to Permanent Residents. That door was closed a few weeks later when it was realized that it was a security nightmare. The problem is all the people that applied during that time. We are dealing with it as it arises. If you've been out of the country for a significant period that too could slow things down. Currently if you have to go through the Presecure process it's taking up to 18 months.


----------



## roninfrmca

Thank You All.


----------



## Maestro

On the 330-60e security form there are only 4 spots for employment history...if I need more room should I just add another page to the form?


----------



## Otis

Maestro said:
			
		

> On the 330-60e security form there are only 4 spots for employment history...if I need more room should I just add another page to the form?



Yes, OR you can go in to your RC and they should provide you with an 'extension' page to the form.


----------



## ammocat

QL-3 Ammo Techs have to be "Reliable" to attend the QL-3 course, and Level 2 Secret to attend the QL-5 course. I do not know what the requirements are for BMQ or when the process starts. If you are going AT, get the process started for Level 2 as soon as possible. Photocopy the forms and keep your own copy. Keep on top of it until you know it is processed, especially after your QL-3 course. If you complete the OJPR (training between QL-3 and QL-5) and come back on your 5's you will be sent back to your unit if you are not Level 2.


----------



## ammocat

Tempestshade 

Out of curiosity, where are you in your training? BMQ?


----------



## sky777

I would like to hear real story about Enhanced Reliability Check  or Security Check from people who didn't live last 5 or 10 years in Canada.How much time did it take?
I mean from Application till passing this Check.
Thanks.


----------



## kincanucks

sky777 said:
			
		

> I would like to hear real story about Enhanced Reliability Check  or Security Check from people who didn't live last 5 or 10 years in Canada.How much time did it take?
> I mean from Application till passing this Check.
> Thanks.



How does that help you?  Everyone's situation is different.  If I told you it will take three working days to complete the ERC and 6 to 36 months to complete the pre-security clearance process would that make you feel better?


----------



## stabmasterarson

I have a question about this too...my first post. I'm about to apply to the navy, and I have been self employed as a carpenter for the last 7 years. If they do a reliability security check on my last employer, they would end up calling me!

Would they want a list of clients I did work for?
Would they then look into those people's background?

I'm just curious...it seems like there are a bunch of potential roadblocks for me in this regard.


----------



## George Wallace

:  

OK

Enough is enough!

This topic has been covered IN DETAIL, Ad Nauseum .  Please go back and READ what has been posted.  IT WILL EXPLAIN IN DETAIL all about ENHANCED RELIABILITY.





The SEARCH function can bring up all kinds of info on ENHANCED RELIABILITY CHECKS, BACKCHECK, and numerous questions about Security Clearances.  Do you really have to be spoon fed what has already been posted?


----------



## Niteryda

I applied and did the aptitude test in Sept '09 however now I realize I missed a past employer on the application sheet. Is this going to affect any outcome? Should I call my local recruiter asap and tell them? I didn't lie i just forgot about the job because I was only there for 1 month. As well, I've moved a bunch of times in the past year, twice because it didn't workout with a gf, once because my landlord was selling the house, and another time because I moved back to my original province after a year. So I only had my original address instead of 4 different addreses in a one year span. Is this going to affect anything?


----------



## PMedMoe

I would call the CFRC and give them all that information.


----------



## charlee

I've read through almost the whole thread here and am a bit confused.

For the references, do they only get interviewed over the telephone or in person?

I'm asking because I read a post that stated that if you use a reference that is far from the local area, it would consume more time to "coordinate" an interview.

Just wondering because I have to fill out a security clearance form and was told by the recruiter that it can take up to two years.    I have an application processing for regular infantry.  It's been over a year since I started the application, and I've completed the CFAT test, interview and medical exams already.  From what I read, this requires level II (secret) clearance?  And I've been in Canada for 17 years, ever since I was 3, but I was born in a scheduled country.


----------



## George Wallace

It doesn't really matter.  It is their job to contact your references.  How they do it is up to them.

As you have now added a further delay of one year before even submitting your application forms, the onus is on you to do your part......Get the forms filled and turn them in.

If you are joining the Infantry, you need a Security pre-screening.  As you (Not being born here.) have been in Canada since you were three, you will need your Citizenship certificate.  As for clearing to Lvl II, that is something that you may want to clarify with the CFRC about.


----------



## charlee

I don't understand what you mean by me adding another one year of delay before handing in my application forms?

I have my Canadian citizenship certificate, I think I just have to attach a photocopy with the form.

[edit]

Did you mean me adding the further delay because I've had my application in for the CF for over a year already?

I just received a call yesterday morning from the recruiting center and I thought the recruiter said I had to do a criminal background and credit check.  When I got to the recruiting center, I spoke to a different recruiter and he looked up my file and gave me the long form (the form with the security clearance with level I, II and III) to fill in all the information.  I thought it was a mistake, so I went back a couple hours after, they looked at my file again and said I do indeed have to fill it out.

I asked why I wasn't informed to fill this out from the start, and they didn't know.  The only answer was because I was born in a scheduled country.  (Which was on the application thing similar to this security clearance form, and the recruiter who interviewed me knew about it too.  But it frustrates me that no one informed me to fill this out until yesterday)  :crybaby:


----------



## Rahul

> I've read through almost the whole thread here and am a bit confused.
> 
> For the references, do they only get interviewed over the telephone or in person?
> 
> I'm asking because I read a post that stated that if you use a reference that is far from the local area, it would consume more time to "coordinate" an interview.
> 
> Just wondering because I have to fill out a security clearance form and was told by the recruiter that it can take up to two years.    I have an application processing for regular infantry.  It's been over a year since I started the application, and I've completed the CFAT test, interview and medical exams already.  From what I read, this requires level II (secret) clearance?  And I've been in Canada for 17 years, ever since I was 3, but I was born in a scheduled country.




Personal Experience:
Handed in my documents a year ago (DEO) and needed a pre-secure check because I hadn't lived in Canada for 7 consecutive years. They called up all my references (It is a detailed check) and then it took them (CSIS, most probably )around 10 months to do a backcheck.  After that there was to be a detailed interview in Feb 2010 (postponed to April now... budget considerations) with somebody (a DND employee) at the recruiting center. 

They -will- tell you what documents and information to bring along, and give you ample time to prepare. I don't know if this helps, but this is just my experience with the process.


----------



## charlee

Just an update if anyone was interested...

It turns out I didn't have to fill out the pre-sec forum, and that I actually indeed have to fill out the background check, credit and criminal check only.  

And hoping there will be more infantry slots come April...


----------



## HavocSteve

I called the CFRC today and ask for a follow up on my application. Seems my background check isn't completed on the Ottawa side but everything else is a green light... which is kind of disappointing. Feels pretty bad when you see people posting their BMQ start dates for the Combat Arms when your in limbo due to Ottawa. Oh well.. hopefully god speed will be on Ottawa's side shortly for a lot of people and we can all get the ball rolling.. 

Does anyone know why these background checks can take so long? I only broke my foot years ago (causes no problems unless a car was to drive over it lol) and I don't have a criminal background nor anything major :S Maybe if it is at all possible, someone that works in Ottawa can look over my file for me? I can PM you my full name and service number I was given at the CFAT test.


----------



## charlee

How long has it been since you handed in your background check form?


----------



## HavocSteve

charlee said:
			
		

> How long has it been since you handed in your background check form?


I handed everything in around Oct. I was completely finished the medical and interview within a month. They did call all of my references because my neighbor came outside and mentioned he received a call from the Gov. Then by the end of the day, everyone was contacted. So I assumed everything was good. I do have a little bit of debt (under 15k due to my lost of employment from a very good job which resulted in my vehicle being taken.) and I was completely honest with the Sgt that interviewed me. So he gave me the OK everything is good and if you can clear it up some that would be better but that's the only thing. Everything else is clean. Also my Grandpa was a MCpl in the Infantry along with my great uncle who was a PO1 in the Navy. Not to mention CFB Petewawa has part of our family land (Brumm Shore).


----------



## Rahul

> Does anyone know why these background checks can take so long?



From what I gather security checks usually just take a month or so to administer. The only problem is that due to the current security climate, there is a huge backlog of personnel (from a myriad of govt. depts.) awaiting clearance.


----------



## George Wallace

Rahul said:
			
		

> From what I gather security checks usually just take a month or so to administer. The only problem is that due to the current security climate, there is a huge backlog of personnel (from a myriad of govt. depts.) awaiting clearance.



As a prospect to the CF, you fill out the "BACKCHECK" forms and they are then sent to the company by the same name.  It is a private company hired by the CF to do background checks on all prospective CF applicants.  There is NO LINE UP of other Government Departments trying to get their people through this system.  The company has been hired to handle only CF applicants.  For a better idea of what may be the problem, read this topic.


----------



## HavocSteve

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As a prospect to the CF, you fill out the "BACKCHECK" forms and they are then sent to the company by the same name.  It is a private company hired by the CF to do background checks on all prospective CF applicants.  There is NO LINE UP of other Government Departments trying to get their people through this system.  The company has been hired to handle only CF applicants.  For a better idea of what may be the problem, read this topic.



I completely understand... my only concern is being one of files on someone desk that gets piled on with more work and then forgotten till months later and then someone goes "oh look, someone's file" then takes a minute to review and give me the go ahead. I know that sometimes happens and I really don't want to be a "forgotten one".


----------



## hmorneau

I have read all the thread, and I had not find what I'm looking for. 

If they already offer me a job (in my case a 6yrs contracts Logistic Officer) and I do my BMOQ in september. Do that mean that the security check is already done? Some say that they did one at St-Jean. I'm bit confused... What happend if this check fail during my BMOQ? Why they don't do it before to send you there? 

In my case I have lots of debts (yeah, studying at university cost lot of money (rents, university fees, foods, etc.) + the time you are looking for a job, money continue to be spend, etc.
I'm just wondering what can happend if they think I have too many debts? Well, with the Officer salary, I have no doubts that I will be able to refund all them, but according to some, FC don't like debts. 

What is the security level needed for a Logistic Officer?

I'm just worry to drop my current job, to go there, and to learn that it doesn't work because of the security check... that would be the worst scenario. Thanks


----------



## George Wallace

Don't confuse the Security/Background Check with the application for a Security Clearance.  They are two different things.  You will have had to do a Background Check (BackCheck) in order to join.  This is done by a privately owned company contracted by the CF to conduct background checks on prospective CF applicants.  The Security Clearance checks are done by several Government agencies, which include the RCMP, CSIS, and DND.


----------



## hmorneau

Ok, so? I guess they already check my credit and everything is fine since they offer me a job?

Other then the debts, I have nothing in my past that can pose a security risk. And for my debts I have no late payment, everything is in order, and last time I checked, my credit score was good.


----------



## hmorneau

Just an update. I have call my recruting officer and everything is fine. I already have my security level that I need for my work. So nothing to worry about.


----------



## tk_01

I'm not entirely sure if this situation is typical, but  I was born in South Korea in 1988, moved to Australia when I was 4, lived there for 6 years, returned to South Korea for a year, and arrived in Canada in 1999. Since then, I've resided in this country for 11 consecutive years. All my immediate family are located within Canadian borders. In addition, I became a naturalized citizen in 2008. I was informed by one of the officers at the CFRC that there was a possibility that Ottawa would conduct a security clearance pre-assessment. Do the foregoing conditions necessitate a pre-assessment? I was informed that a query would be sent to Ottawa, and that I should expect a response within 2 to 3 weeks. That was on May 6th, 2010 and nothing has really materialized yet. I'm aware that there's a significant backlog of queries and files on Ottawa's hands, but I was wondering how long I should expect to wait for an answer to the query. In addition, I told several other officers about my circumstances, and they stated that a pre-assessment wasn't necessary and seemed puzzled that a query was even sent. I realize that there's no real way to answer this question, but how long does the query process itself, and not the pre-assessment, take?


----------



## Pokiey

I would assume it would probably vary from case to case depending on how busy they are, etc., etc., but what I would do if I was in your situation would be to call or stop by your RC and just ask to check up on your file.  You never know, your query could have come back and for whatever reason they have been busy and not gotten back to you or if it isn't back they may have more info for you.  Just a thought, good luck!


----------



## George Wallace

tk_01

This thread covers most of your questions.  This thread may answer more.


----------



## sky777

from http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/bts/fq-eng.asp#bm21
Security screening is a process by which the name of a security clearance applicant is verified against CSIS databases to determine whether the applicant is mentioned in relation to threat-related activities. Depending on the level or category of security clearance required, security screening can also involve interviewing the applicant's friends, neighbours and employers, consulting with local police, and *possibly interviewing the applicant.*
What kind of information CSIS can get from applicant if he (she) putted all infos in Application Form?
It's understandable when CSIS does  interviewing  with the applicant's friends, neighbours and employers,  local police.
But what information they can get from applicant?
When he (she) signed Forms - he (she) said-yes, it is true. What else?


----------



## 2010newbie

I don't know the reason, but I would say it is the same as a job application. If someone hands in a resume, what is the point of an interview?? You want to see how they are in person and how they react to different questions and/or situations. What if there are questions that came up from the interviewing of neighbours and friends? If your neighbour said you have people coming in and out of your house at strange hours and your windows were covered with tinfoil for a while, wouldn't you want to ask the applicant what that is all about? Wouldn't you want to defend yourself or explain the reasons also (aliens shooting lasers through your windows to read your thoughts)? I am sure these people performing the interview are trained to pick up on inconsistencies and detect possible untruths.


----------



## darwin

I am filling this out and I am unsure whether to put my volunteer position in the 5 year employment verification.

I know it says employment, but on the main application it asks for job, vol, etc.

thanks in advance


----------



## George Wallace

Employment would indicate that you were Paid.


----------



## darwin

thanks a lot for the reply
I knew that until I was looking at the app, it threw me off a bit.


----------



## sky777

Algae said:
			
		

> Just an update. I have call my recruiting officer and everything is fine. I already have my security level that I need for my work. So nothing to worry about.


I  received Level II instead of Level III. What can I do? 
I asked recruiter about.But  no solutions for now.


----------



## martr

sky777 said:
			
		

> I  received Level II instead of Level III. What can I do?
> I asked recruiter about.But  no solutions for now.



If they processed your application as a Level II instead of a Level III, you will most likely have to re-submit an application for the level III. They might be able to reuse your paperwork, but I'm not sure. The only advantage you will have here is that certain checks will be fairly fresh and they won't have to re-do them.


----------



## George Wallace

sky777 said:
			
		

> I  received Level II instead of Level III. What can I do?
> I asked recruiter about.But  no solutions for now.






			
				martr said:
			
		

> If they processed your application as a Level II instead of a Level III, you will most likely have to re-submit an application for the level III. They might be able to reuse your paperwork, but I'm not sure. The only advantage you will have here is that certain checks will be fairly fresh and they won't have to re-do them.




 :


They have to clear you to Lvl II in the process to clearing you to Lvl III.  As they have been so kind as to let you know that you are Lvl II you can conduct some training.  

What can you do?

As stated to you so many times before; have patience and WAIT.


----------



## martr

Sorry, yes that's definitely true. I was thinking that they stopped after his Level II was granted and the OP was sure of that.


----------



## sky777

Today I visited my local CFRC.
I was talking about my level of security clearance.
Recruiter told me that he doesn't know why I received level II instead of Level III,may be  because I  am not in Canada 10 years, I am from former USSR country.No ideas. 
I filled form 330-60 in February 2010,gave my photo,fingerprints,my references and employers. But nobody was contacted .
I had only interview with CSIS agent.It was very easy interview.I expected after that everything will be fine.
I received Level II in end of September,2010.They told me that I can choose only for position which request Level II only.Nobody said about waiting.I am ready to wait but they told me now like this.


----------



## George Wallace

sky777 said:
			
		

> Today I visited my local CFRC.
> I was talking about my level of security clearance.
> Recruiter told me that he doesn't know why I received level II instead of Level III,may be  because I  am not in Canada 10 years, I am from former USSR country.No ideas.
> I filled form 330-60 in February 2010,gave my photo,fingerprints,my references and employers. But nobody was contacted .
> I had only interview with CSIS agent.It was very easy interview.I expected after that everything will be fine.
> I received Level II in end of September,2010.They told me that I can choose only for position which request Level II only.Nobody said about waiting.I am ready to wait but they told me now like this.



 :


I really don't know what part of "BE PATIENT.....WAIT" you don't understand.  You are not even in the CF yet.  People who are in the CF are waiting for three years for their Lvl III...........so be patient and WAIT.


----------



## sky777

George Wallace said:
			
		

> :
> 
> 
> I really don't know what part of "BE PATIENT.....WAIT" you don't understand.  You are not even in the CF yet.  People who are in the CF are waiting for three years for their Lvl III...........so be patient and WAIT.


Nobody  in CFRC  told me about waiting .They told me that they can only process my file with  Level II positions.When I was waiting for security check I knew what I was waiting. Now,CFRC didn't tell me wait because I didn't get Level III l
You said people in CF are waiting for 3 years for their Level III. But how it comes that my local CFRC  8 months  can not process my file with level III position like Signal? 
I know that position can be opened after March - April ,2011.But they told me I can apply only for Level II positions.I know you wrote about security clearance Level III even during BMQ.But why in my case I even can not do CFAT ?
I don't want to argue with you guys- I just ask advice- what can I do? I know you have huge experinece.My local CFRC says : "Accept  it and choose position with Level II or we can not process your file"? If you tell me exactly what I shall wait I will be really appreciate.


----------



## aesop081

sky777 said:
			
		

> "Accept  it and choose position with Level II or we can not process your file"?



Sounds like you were not able to obtain a Level 3 security clearance. Sounds to me like you only have to choices :

1- Pick another trade; or
2- Pick another employer.

The CFRC have presented you with your options. They will be the only ones that have information for you. If they have told you everything they know, you have a decision to make so get on with it.


----------



## Newapplicant78

I am gonna keep it short and sweet

I have handed in the paperwork, had my interview and was awaiting my medical when I was advised via phone call to comeback to the recruiting office to fill out an additional security form. 

I know this is because I have family outside of country as well as lost contact with others.

Once this is done will I have long to wait for my medical?

Just a few more months and careers will be re-opening and I have another visit with the recruiter. 

Does this seem normal ? the person on the phone sounded surprised that this form was not given to me earlier?


----------



## George Wallace

Newapplicant78 said:
			
		

> I am gonna keep it short and sweet
> 
> I have handed in the paperwork, had my interview and was awaiting my medical when I was advised via phone call to comeback to the recruiting office to fill out an additional security form.
> 
> I know this is because I have family outside of country as well as lost contact with others.
> 
> Once this is done will I have long to wait for my medical?
> 
> Just a few more months and careers will be re-opening and I have another visit with the recruiter.
> 
> Does this seem normal ? the person on the phone sounded surprised that this form was not given to me earlier?



Did you read the first post in this thread?


----------



## Newapplicant78

Yes Sir

I did they made reference to how long the sec clearance takes. Ive had credit, references done it's just the 

security check for family members left and I have to sign another form. Im inquiring about how much possible time 

from that point will it take before I will possibly have my medical done?

Thank You


----------



## George Wallace

Ah!  So I should have pointed you in this direction:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81054.0.html


----------



## soloripper99

Greetings everyone,

I recently submitted my application along with the Enhanced Security long form. I am 17 ( turning 18 in a few months), and I do not have a criminal record and no credit history. I was out of the country for 10 years and I returned here when I was 13. I am a Canadian Citizen from birth. I do have immediate relatives outside. Now I read somewhere on this forum about how any travel made before the age of 16 does not count ( but no more further explanation), or it wouldn't be of concern, is this true?

Thank you in advance.

Regards.


----------



## Jeremy360

Apologies for the necro, but after much prodding(as a Comm Rsch) I finally got this back:



> According to DPM analysts they are approx *15,000* file in the rear.



Word around the water cooler is that three years is starting to become a normal wait.

I don't want to start a "poor me" rant, but if they had mentioned this at the CFRC I would have repaired my vision and gone hard navy as I had originally planned.

Well over two years later, without an interview of any kind, so I'm guessing that my file is #14,342 or so.  I haven't received a traffic ticket in my life, never been arrested or charged.  I do have a mediocre credit score, but all collections are cleared up.  I haven't left the country in 12 years and haven't gone beyond Seattle.  Am I too clean to get the clearance?


----------



## Mudshuvel

Hey guys,

I decided to fill out this necrothread rather than create a new one.

I looked at multiple pages going through the Security Clearance checks for the trades. I'm going for ATIS and I'm guessing the only thing I really have that could hinder my Security Clearance is my credit history.

I 'passed' the reliability screening with a few things smashing into my credit from years ago, not so much from neglect to wanting to pay them, just frankly unable to. I'm aiming to get at least one of those paid off by the time I enter BMQ. In your own opinions/experience, could that impact me to the point of getting released? The total there is under 2k, I'm just unsure how large the credit potion of it plays into security clearance.

Regards


----------



## PMedMoe

Normally, as long as you are making an effort to pay off the debt, it's not a problem.  Had it been a huge issue, you wouldn't have made it  past the enrollment stage.  Stop worrying.


----------



## Mudshuvel

Thanks PMedMoe,

I just kept thinking of how bad it would suck getting kicked off course and having to return to no job. I should have _some_ of it gone by BMQ anyways.


----------



## Squid

Hello fellow Canadians  , 

I am a 17 year old Canadian citizen who has graduated highschool and been accepted to university for business economics for a 4 year undergraduate degree. I have been thinking about joining the Canadian Forces ever since i came into highschool and the presentation was displayed on militia training as a course, which lead me to plan a military career in which i will hopefully begin in reserves while i attend university and afterwards become a DEO for infantry. My only problem is that i wasn't born here and originally come from Iran, which means that i have a dual citizenship for both countries. I do not have any immediate relatives living in Iran. I still want to serve in the army and was wondering if my dual citizenship would be a problem for any security clearances that i would need to be eligible to join. I heard that i may be subject to have my Iranian citizenship revoked, which would cause a problem for me. Is this true?

Any answers are much appreciated


----------



## PMedMoe

Not sure about having to give up your Iranian citizenship, however, a Google search came up with a Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire which you may have to fill out.

http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/pre_secur_en.pdf


----------



## Good2Golf

Dual-citizenship does not itself disqualify you from service in the Canadian Forces, however, the results of any investigation into your citizenship from any other country may affect your ability to hold a security clearance applicable to your intended military occupation.  You would only know this through applying to the CF and the appropriate authorities conducting the necessary background checks and investigations.  

Two documents you would likely be required to fill out during your application are:

TBS 330-23 - Personal Screening Request and Authorization form, and if cleared through the initial vetting, then: 

TBS 330-60 - Security Clearance Form.

The CF Recruiting Centre personnel will be able to give you more information, of particular value is the "official" part.

Since all Canadian Federal employees must comply with the Treasury Board Secretariat security requirements, that is an excellent source to investigate - http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=12330&section=text Personal Security Standard web site link.

Regards
G2G


----------



## Squid

Thanks for the answers !

But one more quick question: 
If I do get past all the checks and become part of the Canadian Forces and at one point decide that I would like to join the regular force and work abroad is there a way to request not being placed in a area of the middle east such as Afghanistan or Iraq, mainly because I do not wish to engage in battle with people who speak the same language as me and were born in the same relative area, after all i wouldnt want to engage in battle with a Canadian either. I would be more than happy to be placed in other combat zones/ aid rescue areas such as Africa, Haiti or any other place im needed.  :camo:


----------



## PMedMoe

Squid said:
			
		

> Thanks for the answers !
> 
> But one more quick question:
> If I do get past all the checks and become part of the Canadian Forces and at one point decide that I would like to join the regular force and work abroad* is there a way to request not being placed in a area of the middle east such as Afghanistan or Iraq, mainly because I do not wish to engage in battle with people who speak the same language as me and were born in the same relative area*, after all i wouldnt want to engage in battle with a Canadian either. I would be more than happy to be placed in other combat zones/ aid rescue areas such as Africa, Haiti or any other place im needed.  :camo:



I doubt it.  Maybe you should try the Reserves.


----------



## aesop081

Squid said:
			
		

> is there a way to request not being placed in a area of the middle east such as Afghanistan or Iraq, mainly because I do not wish to engage in battle with people who speak the same language as me and were born in the same relative area,



There sure is. That process will be quickly followed by your release from the CF.


----------



## Danny_C

Squid said:
			
		

> Thanks for the answers !
> 
> But one more quick question:
> If I do get past all the checks and become part of the Canadian Forces and at one point decide that I would like to join the regular force and work abroad is there a way to request not being placed in a area of the middle east such as Afghanistan or Iraq, mainly because I do not wish to engage in battle with people who speak the same language as me and were born in the same relative area, after all i wouldnt want to engage in battle with a Canadian either. I would be more than happy to be placed in other combat zones/ aid rescue areas such as Africa, Haiti or any other place im needed.  :camo:



If you join the regular force you will not have a choice where they send you to fight. You go where they tell you. 

Keep in mind that if you are deployed to that area you will be fighting people who are there to do harm. You will be helping people of similar decent by ridding them of the bad guys regardless of language.


----------



## Container

Squid said:
			
		

> Thanks for the answers !
> 
> But one more quick question:
> If I do get past all the checks and become part of the Canadian Forces and at one point decide that I would like to join the regular force and work abroad is there a way to request not being placed in a area of the middle east such as Afghanistan or Iraq, mainly because I do not wish to engage in battle with people who speak the same language as me and were born in the same relative area, after all i wouldnt want to engage in battle with a Canadian either. I would be more than happy to be placed in other combat zones/ aid rescue areas such as Africa, Haiti or any other place im needed.  :camo:



ugh. What about native standoffs where the CF is required? There most certainly could have been Canadians on the recieving end of the Canadian Forces deployment at the Oka crisis. Just because the crisis was averted doesn't mean it cant happen again and YOU wont be required. 

Its a disgusting idea that you'll only fight people different from you. Furthermore Afghanistan has nothing to do with Iran. I guess there are Muslims there but outside of that they have only the fact that they arent Canada in common.

Find a different job is the best idea.


----------



## aesop081

From DAOD 5049-2, Conscientious Objection



> Enrolment of persons in the CF is strictly voluntary and CF members must be prepared to perform any lawful duty to defend Canada, its interests and its values, while contributing to international peace and security. A CF member who has a conscientious objection remains liable to perform any lawful duty, but may request voluntary release on the basis of their objection.



To be an objector you must either :



> A CF member may request voluntary release on the basis of conscientious objection if the CF member has a sincerely held objection to participation in:
> 
> war or armed conflict in general; or
> 
> the bearing and use of arms as a requirement of service in the CF.



Since you only object to war in the middle east, the above doesn't apply to you. So that leaves us with :




> An objection based primarily on one or more of the following does not permit voluntary release on the basis of a conscientious objection:
> 
> participation or use of arms in a particular conflict or operation;
> 
> national policy;
> 
> personal expediency; or
> 
> political beliefs.



My advice, seek employment somewhere else.


----------



## Squid

Im sorry to have offended anyone with that question but if its possible to believe its not really my opinion.
Its more the influence from my parents of me having any fighting in the middle east and mainly my mother wanted to know this answer.
Personally, I could give a damn where I fight and I once again thank you all for the answers, but this really is my choice in joining and its not something im going to back down from.
As far as im concerend, Im a Canadian and theres no where else in the world that I'd rather be then in the Canadian military. 
It was merely a question from a frantic mother   do not pin me as a coward


----------



## aesop081

Squid said:
			
		

> but this really is my choice in joining and its not something im going to back down from.



Well, you are going to have to fight whoever the CF tells you to fight.


----------



## Squid

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Well, you are going to have to fight whoever the CF tells you to fight.



Like i said fine by me, my parents think otherwise LOL


----------



## canada94

Squid said:
			
		

> Like i said fine by me, my parents think otherwise LOL



Thankfully your old enough to make your own decisions, and also free to make your own decisions in this country, essentially joining the forces comes with choices that your making in advance IE; potential deployment. 

My mom joined the RCMP and never wanted to get "northern deployments" to Nunavut (or anywhere up north for that matter) but when the time came and she was sent off to some lil Island in the middle of Hudson Bay.. she went, as that is what was part of her contract!

Just a lil rant


----------



## Pusser

Actually folks, the CF will keep people out of certain theatres for their own safety or in for fear of starting an international incident.  Back in the Cold War, I heard of fighter pilot who could not get a posting to Germany.  He had been born in an Eastern Bloc country then controlled by the Soviets and the fear was that he would start WWIII by attacking the Soviets at the first opportunity!  I can't actually vouch for the veracity of this, but it makes for a good story.  ;D

Another case I know of was that of Jewish officer who was denied an opportunity to serve in the first Gulf War our of fear that if he were captured, he would be treated much worse than others.

In short, if service in a certain theatre of operations is going to cause problems, a member may be exempted from service there.


----------



## aesop081

....and i have deployed with guys who's ethnicity alone meant that they were targets in the country we were in. The CF gave them a name tag that said "Smith" and deployed them.

We deploy with Jewish people all the time and we had lots of people from East European origin serving in Germany.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> Actually folks, the CF will keep people out of certain theatres for their own safety or in for fear of starting an international incident.



I don't know if you read the original post but the issue was not personal safety.


----------



## mariomike

Pusser said:
			
		

> Back in the Cold War, I heard of fighter pilot who could not get a posting to Germany.  He had been born in an Eastern Bloc country then controlled by the Soviets and the fear was that he would start WWIII by attacking the Soviets at the first opportunity!  I can't actually vouch for the veracity of this, but it makes for a good story.  ;D



During the war, Canadians flew in bomber crews of mixed nationalities. I read of a Norwegian pilot, Knut Lindass, who's entire crew bailed out. The flight engineer tried to buckle a parachute on him, but he pushed it away. His brother was shot by the Gestapo. He knew that he himself was a dead man if he landed alive in Germany. He preferred to crash with the aircraft.
Lindaas trained at the Little Norway flying school in Toronto.

"The Norwegians never cared about the economic importance of a target, they just wanted to know how many Germans per acre."
A former C.O. of 76 Squadron.


----------



## Pusser

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> ....and i have deployed with guys who's ethnicity alone meant that they were targets in the country we were in. The CF gave them a name tag that said "Smith" and deployed them.
> 
> We deploy with Jewish people all the time and we had lots of people from East European origin serving in Germany.
> 
> I don't know if you read the original post but the issue was not personal safety.



I never said anything to the contrary.  I was simply pointing out two specific examples where ethnicity/citizenship was a factor in making a decision to deploy two specific people.  That doesn't mean we have never deployed others in similar circumstances.  I was merely countering other arguments that made absolute statements that we never consider ethnicity/citizenship in deployment decisions.  That simply isn't true.  Sometimes we choose to deploy an individual specifically because of their ethnicity.  Sometimes, we choose NOT to deploy him/her for the same reason.  Most of the time, it's not a factor at all.


----------



## lag039

im also a canadian with duel citizenship. i have both canadian and british passports and have lived in the UK for the past 8 years. i intend to move back to canada after i have finished my university degree. im just wondering because of the extened period with which i have been out of canada if it will mean that i will have more ofan issue getting accepted as an officer into the CF.

thanks for the help


----------



## bgray

I'm in the process of filling out my security clearance forms; will it matter if I was released (fired) from a job, or have several jobs listed on the form? (I'm going to my RC to pick up an extension form for employment). There is a spot on the form to indicate if you have been released from a job, and I will check off yes and provide the employer, I just hope this doesn't have too much effect on my clearance - I've been told by others, not to worry.


----------



## SentryMAn

I don't think so, but make sure there are no gaps on the form.
include things like "Sept 2011 - Oct 2011 Unemployed"

I was told this by a former Unit Security Officer


----------



## bgray

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> I don't think so, but make sure there are no gaps on the form.
> include things like "Sept 2011 - Oct 2011 Unemployed"
> 
> I was told this by a former Unit Security Officer



 Awesome! Thanks a bunch, I'm going to the RC right now to get the extended sheet, thank you.


----------



## Ayrsayle

Their issue is more "Where was this guy during x period of time and how can we verify it?" more so then "Was he employed continuously for 10 years".

I had some periods of unemployment on my security sheet - nothing ever came from it.

Good luck!


----------



## bgray

Thank you. That makes me feel more comfortable.


----------



## tanman89

Hello everyone,

Its been awhile since my last post and I'm still awaiting results of my fingerprints so they can decide on wether to grant me reliability status or not and then resume with my file...  I've had 2 interviews and I'm inching ever so close to getting on the merit list.

Back on track, my question is to clarify exactly are the possible out comes once they receive my fingerprints from the RCMP? Can they just downright deny me? Is there a chance to redress the decision if it is denied? Or is it possible that they give me a conditional approval (Condition being something like recieving a pardon).

Its been along time since my last offence, and I'm coming up on the usual time it takes to retrieve the fingerprint check results so I just want to hope for the best but be prepared and educated for my options if the worst happens.

I've always been one to keep in steady contact with the recruitment centre but with my file manager being on course and renovations and well just the sheer number of applicants its sometimes difficult to get ahold of someone, so I thought I would post this here and perhaps get some insight from people who have experience with it.

Thanks in advance and would like to say good luck to everyone in 2012 who is applying.

John


----------



## aesop081

tanman89 said:
			
		

> Can they just downright deny me?



Yes.



> Or is it possible that they give me a conditional approval (Condition being something like recieving a pardon).



No. You have to let the process do its thing. Find something more productive to do then trying to find a way around the system.


----------



## Remius

Did you ask your MCC any of this?

I haven't been in the recruiting system for a few years now so take this for what it is worth (policies on things like this have a tendency to change from time to time).  

I will assume you were not counselled out from the get go or even as of yet.  So you are still in the process as far as I can tell.

Things will depend on what the fingerprint results turn up.  A lot of times they are for confirmation purposes.  Other times it could turn up outstanding legal issues.  Can they deny you (ie counsel you out)?  Of course they can and will if they have a reason to.  

Wait for the results.  Anything we tell you here isn't going to change the outcome or allay your fears.

With that, good luck to you.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Of course, I'll assume you were honest with them from the get go?  Then the results of any fingerprinting should not reveal anything they don't already know, right?

Nothing to do but sit and wait...


----------



## tanman89

Thank you CA, I've always appreciated the "bluntness" of your posts. But as I said im not looking for a way around the system just want to be educated in my options if the situation arises. I have been working/volunteering where I can and doing everything i can to improve my file to show them that i have shed the ways of my past and moved on to become a mature person of good character. I guess I was just stewing about this question for a little while and decided to post and just get some ideas of what has happend to some people.

Thanks CA

As well thank you Crantor for your post I just read it as i was replying to CA


----------



## tanman89

Yes I've always been honest theres no point in hiding things if they dont find out right that day theyll find out down the road... so i always found it better to be honest and show what ive done to learn and better myself from the mistakes ive made


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Then you have nothing to worry about.  If it was "make it or break it" situation then I'd suspect you'd know by now.

Good luck.


----------



## tanman89

Thanks everyone for you're input I appreciate it


----------



## Gulruthina

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick question in regards to the Employment History section of the form. 

There is a section in the Employment History where I have to write my past work history up to (5) years and on the right side it ask of me to write my employer contacts, email addresses and an option where it states,* "May we contact = yes or no"*. My question is, *if I put  "May we contact? = No", would that affect my application in any way?*

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## tanman89

Today after almost a year of running around getting paperwork getting fingerprints done and doing anything els the recruitment center has asked of me, my journey has come to an end. I found out today that the results of my fingerprints came back and I have been declined my reliability status. Yes I have a bit of a bumpy past but I have learned from it and tryed to better myself from it. Anyways as I await my letter comming to me, I was wondering with anyone with experiance in this matter could help me. The person I spoke with said I will have an opportunity to redress this as well as a couple other options, I was curious exactly what this entails and what paperwork I should get started on getting on now well i await for my letter so i can be 1 step ahead of the game. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks for all the helpful advice with everything you guys have helped me with, hopfully with your experiance and guidance I will be able to fight through this obstacle to.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## SentryMAn

If it is due to legal issues and charges being laid, try to acquire a pardon for anything on your file you can.  It is not overly costly if you do it yourself and wil take upwards of 6 months.

Once you have a pardon, you can stop explaining to various levels about what you did and what you learned from the experience(to a certain extent).


----------



## Jarnhamar

So what'd ya do in your past?

 Reliability Statusis a very very basic check, I've never heard of someone failing that before..


----------



## Allgunzblazing

I am not a CF recruiter, but I do work in a law enforcement agency. 

If you have been denied Reliability Status, for any reason, you must know what you did for them to not clear your papers. Now, you are only 22, so time is to your advantage. Whatever wrong you had done, try to do things which will prove that you are not the same person you were. The best thing to do is volunteer. From my experience, I can say that recruiters give a lot of importance to volunteering. 

However, volunteering can not compensate for employment. 

Go to school - trade, university, whatever. 

Your employers (paid and volunteer group), teachers, etc will all make excellent references. 

Again, you are young and with determination the table can be turned around. 

All the best. 

PS - This is just my two cents. An actual CF recruiter will steer you in the best direction.


----------



## Sig_Des

If they didn't tell you in person it should be in the letter, but did anyone specify what it was that caused you to be declined?

Is it past credit issues, or is it criminal background?

If it's credit, do you currently have high levels of dept and/or are you currently under collections? Have you previously declared bankruptcy?

If it's criminal, do you currently have legal proceedings in process against you? If not, how many charges have you previously been convicted of, and as previously mentioned, have you obtained pardons for them?

If you were declined due to ongoing issues, then you obviously can't be cleared ERC until proceedings are done.

If it's because of past records, then you need to take the steps to clear it before you would be.

Do you have questionable contacts, ie, an uncle in the HA? Who were your references, and would they be considered upstanding citizens? Would they have had good things to say about you? Do you actively associate with people who have a criminal background or are involved in questionable activities

Once you get the letter, it'll state "based on the information currently available. If anything has changed, contact..." or something to that effect. At which point this is where you would provide documentation that ex: you've paid off your debt, been pardoned, completed legal conditions, etc.


----------



## tanman89

I believe it is for a criminal background, I have done many things to show i am not the same as i was... such as volunteering even completing my grade 12 (although i dont expect points for something that shouldve been done years ago) I am in the middle of the paron process at the moment as they highly suggested that i start the process the year before being eligable (Which i am next year) i believe this is for the 12-14 month wait time a pardon now takes in order to get granted etc.

Thanks all for the advice, I mean if i must wait then i must wait its just that simple but they can be reassured i will be in there next year pardon in hand ready to roll 

Seriously thanks to everyone on this forum been a big help.


----------



## tanman89

As i mentioned i havnt got the letter yet. Its highly unlikely to be a credit issue as fingerprints are to determine criminal records.


Thanks everyone again ill keep everyone posted on how it goes


----------



## Jarnhamar

soooooooo, what'd you do


----------



## QORvanweert

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> soooooooo, what'd you do



I am sure we have all been wondering the same thing! Since he has all but admitted to some criminal activity, lets ease the tension with a confession!


----------



## fraserdw

LOL


----------



## brihard

Stay clean, get some work/volunteer/educational experience, and get your pardon. Try again then.


----------



## skrob

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> soooooooo, what'd you do


http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/99973/post-1027933.html#msg1027933

First post, second paragraph should answer your question.


----------



## DAA

See Article 2.9  --->  http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=12330&section=text

"If the requested reliability status is denied, the individual must be briefed and given the reasons for the denial, unless the information is exemptible under the Privacy Act. The individual is also to be advised of the right to redress. See Section 6 for further information on redress."

So they should be giving you the reasons why you were turned down.


----------



## aesop081

DAA said:
			
		

> So they should be giving you the reasons why you were turned down.



He said there was a letter coming his way.


----------



## The_Falcon

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just a quick question in regards to the Employment History section of the form.
> 
> There is a section in the Employment History where I have to write my past work history up to (5) years and on the right side it ask of me to write my employer contacts, email addresses and an option where it states,* "May we contact = yes or no"*. My question is, *if I put  "May we contact? = No", would that affect my application in any way?*
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark



It means it will take longer to verify the information you are telling the CF.


----------



## The_Falcon

You are being asked for prints because when your name was run through the "system"  it came back as adverse meaning someone with your name has had an "interesting" past and may/may not be subject to outstanding judicial obligations.  The prints are just confirmation of this information (since it has occurred where people have come back with adverse results but it turned out to be someone with a similar name and date of birth).  If you have been honest and have already disclosed this info to the CF, then its nothing we don't already know, especially if its already come up in an interview.


----------



## zClassified

New to the site, sorry if this question has been asked previously. I have a secret clearance with my current employee, will this speed up my application process as it is a higher clearance then a relihability?


----------



## Occam

zClassified said:
			
		

> New to the site, sorry if this question has been asked previously. I have a secret clearance with my current employee, will this speed up my application process as it is a higher clearance then a relihability?



It should speed up the clearance portion of your enrolment, as you'd simply be going through a reactivation of your clearance.  There are procedures in place to have the level maintained so you don't lose the clearance between civvie and military employment.  The remainder of the recruiting machine grinds along at the same pace, though...unless the stars aligned the right way and you became a candidate for training in an occupation where they had insufficient number of cleared students to begin a class.


----------



## zClassified

Alright thanks for the help, that is kinda what I figured as well when researching about the CF hiring process. I have a college diploma in security management and trying to become a MP so hopefully everything works out and dont crap to bed on the CFAT lol


----------



## George Wallace

zClassified said:
			
		

> New to the site, sorry if this question has been asked previously. I have a secret clearance with my current employee, will this speed up my application process as it is a higher clearance then a relihability?



I will counter Occam's claims:  If you hold a Federal Government Lvl II Clearance, you can provide your PRI number and employer information to be included in a hardcopy form that can be submitted with your TBS/SCT 330-23e and TBS/SCT 330-60e hardcopies; and this may help some in the speed that your clearance may be completed.  Other than that, a civilian clearance means very little, and may not help you at all.


----------



## zClassified

Thanks for your reply, I just figured having a clearance already would/might speed up the process somewhat seeing that a secret clearance costs money and time (2-5 months depending on if you have a "skeleton in the closet"). Appreciate the info


----------



## Occam

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I will counter Occam's claims:  If you hold a Federal Government Lvl II Clearance, you can provide your PRI number and employer information to be included in a hardcopy form that can be submitted with your TBS/SCT 330-23e and TBS/SCT 330-60e hardcopies; and this may help some in the speed that your clearance may be completed.  Other than that, a civilian clearance means very little, and may not help you at all.



Is it that much different going from Civ ----> Mil than going in the other direction?  I maintained my clearance without interruption going from CF to the Public Service...


----------



## George Wallace

Yes it is different.  The CF and RCMP, CSIS, and CSEC all place a higher importance on investigating your background than other Government Depts.   If zClassified does not hold a Clearance with any of these orgs, or any Federal Government Dept, their Clearance will likely be worthless.


----------



## Occam

I stand corrected - sorry for the misinformation, zClassified.  Hopefully your current clearance does help somewhat.


----------



## aesop081

Even inside the CF, it's not that simple. I have a Sgt who who retired last July, re-joined last November and is waiting in line with everyone else to get the security clearance he had.

If the OP has some kind of security clearance elsewhere, don't have any expectation that it will speed anything up.


----------



## J.J

To add to the "confusion", I have a Top Secret security clearance  for my civilian occupation and when I was in the reserves, the CF would not accept the TS, they required their own clearance (enhanced reliability). At the time I refused to complete a security clearance because I had a fear that my civilian clearance would be downgraded. The CF agreed to accept my clearance as is. When I released I found out the CF had nothing for my security clearance. 
I think it is case by case and what your local security officer wants to do.


----------



## Occam

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Even inside the CF, it's not that simple. I have a Sgt who who retired last July, re-joined last November and is waiting in line with everyone else to get the security clearance he had.



That's a completely different situation; he's had a break in service.  

When I was preparing to release from the CF, I was told in no uncertain terms to very carefully select my release date from the CF and my reporting date to the PS position.  There could not be a break in service or else my clearance would be screwed and I would have to start off at square one again.


----------



## zClassified

Ya my clearance is from Public works, I am currently employed with Commissionares. They get Public Works or CSIS to perform the clearance, if that helps.


----------



## thatguyplayinguitar

Hey guys,
I applied for the forces in beggining of february, and this week i have successfully completed and passed my aptitude test. It was my fist appointment, and I was informed by a recruiter that I can continue my application process. However, since I have dual-citizenship (with france), my security clearance pre-assessment might take longer than average (from three weeks to 18 months) depending on whether ottawa decides to do a detailed check or not. But here's the thing: I have literly just became citizen of france in the past months. So basically, I never lived in france, I don't have anything that relates to france exept my familly (grandmother). I basically got the citizenship because it got passed down from my grandmother to my mother, to me. So I am pretty much new in the system, and there really isn't much to check (since there's absolutly nothing).  

So based on this, I would like to know your opinions, do you think the check is gonna go by very fast or will I have to be patient?


----------



## George Wallace

Our opinion doesn't matter.  The opinions of the person(s) doing your clearance do.  

We have quite a few topics to give you an idea of what to expect.  Read some of them to get a general feel.


----------



## siuto

Hello all,

I just submitted my application online on April 14, 2012 and they confirmed that they received the copied documents on April 23. 
I born in Hong Kong and came to Canada when I was 19, I have been here for 8 and a half years. I know the background check process will take longer for people who has not been staying in Canada for 10 years. 
Any one has similar backgroun can share with me how long it would take? I have heard stories from my friends that it takes up to 2 years for some applicants (who came from other part of the world)

Thanks!


----------



## Allgunzblazing

Hi, 

In case it is determined that you require Pre Assessment Security Screening, the Recruting Centre will ask you fill up the Form 330-60. This is the link to the form - http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/330-60-eng.pdf. 

This is a fillable form, so it is better to type it out, rather than hand write the information required. Also make certain, that there are absolutely NO errors. All this might prevent avoidable delays. 

I am one of those poor souls who requires Pre Assessment Security Screening. Be prepared for an endless wait, that way anything short of that will be a bonus. I met an officer during a recruiting event who told me that his papers (Form 330-60) took four years to process. Send me a PM if you'd like to know my application timeline so far. All I can say is that I didn't apply yesterday! 

All the best, 

AGB.


----------



## mariomike

You may find some information here.

Topic: "The Security Check/ Level Superthread- Check Here First":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12875.0


----------



## Rahul

I went through the process and as they say, it takes between 6 to 18 months. Mine took 16 months. Make sure that you keep checking in for your file status. I was born in India and at the time of my application, I had been in Canada for 6-7 years. My application for DEO Armored officer and Infantry officer has been in-process for just over 3 years now.  All I can say is not to lose faith, it is long.


----------



## The_Falcon

siuto said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> I just submitted my application online on April 14, 2012 and they confirmed that they received the copied documents on April 23.
> I born in Hong Kong and came to Canada when I was 19, I have been here for 8 and a half years. I know the background check process will take longer for people who has not been staying in Canada for 10 years.
> Any one has similar backgroun can share with me how long it would take? I have heard stories from my friends that it takes up to 2 years for some applicants (who came from other part of the world)
> 
> Thanks!



Its going to take as long as it needs to, to verify all the information provided, and ensure you are not a security risk.  There is no hard and fast time frame.  What you heard is correct it can take several months to a few years to complete.  Despite what Hollywood would have you believe, the government doesn't have quick access to everyone's life story and background.


----------



## Gascan13

Hello, I'm a Canadian citizen with Lebanese/Canadian dual citizenships and born in Lebanon and lived and studied most of my life in Lebanon. I wanted to ask if I should even bother applying to the CF knowing how long security checks take. And I don't know if being Arab makes it even worst, but I'm a Christian Lebanese not Muslim. I know it's disgusting to even mention faiths and stuff like that but unfortunately, reality is ugly, almost everyone knows how it is with Arab stereotyping in the Western world especially if he/she is Muslim coming from a country with heavy history of wars amongst many factions... Anyway, I applied last year, submitted my application, when I reached the security clearance forms I was stunned to see how much detail they need, addresses for past 10 years... I lived in Lebanon most of my life, would that look kinda wrong to them as a Canadian living outside more than in Canada? My passion and love for serving in the military has no bounds, I'd be willing to do it for free, aspiring to be CF fighter pilot if that is even possible considering my situation... And do they open files of my parents to see where they have lived and what they have been doing for the past 10 years or they just seek to confirm the information that I give about them in the forms no more no less and do the heavy security clearance on me like background checks, where I studied and lived for past 10 years...I'm was a Premed Biology student graduated with a BS and did a year of medicine then quit cause I didn't find myself in that career path... I know about everything there is to know about the military and flying as I do with medicine. That shows how much interest I have in being an Officer in the CF, and it's heart wrenching to discover that that dream may be too far away to become reality


----------



## MikeL

Lots of people have lived outside of Canada and gotten in.. many immigrants have gotten in,  even those who have served in another military.  Also,  there are members of all backgrounds and faiths in the CF.   Just do what the CFRC tells you and have some patience.  The whole racial/religion thing is a non issue,  so stop making it out to be one.  One last note,  you wouldn't be the first Lebanese person to join,  nor will you be the last.


----------



## aesop081

Gascan13 said:
			
		

> would that look kinda wrong to them as a Canadian living outside more than in Canada?



If you want to apply again, you're going to have to fill out those forms again. Better get used to that idea now.

Lots of Arabs, muslims and many others in the CF. The only one making an issue out of your ethnic background is *you*. You're not special, get over yourself.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

To elaborate on what Cdn_aviator has said...The common perception is that the CF is one big white old boys club where we all drive pick-ups with confederate flags and whistle Dixie on parade.

The reality is the opposite. In my field squadron we have muslims africans, muslim pakistanis, christian arabs, christian africans, poles (or OPFOR as I like to call them!!!), white rural canadians, urban asian canadians, rural asian canadians, and urban italian canadians.

They are all canadians, and all bleed the same colour. I, as a Sgt, do not give a rats ass what religion, creed, race or colour someone is, just that they can do the job.

Nobody else cares about your race or religion except you. If you go looking for people who do, you will probably find it, but if you show up with the attitude that it doesn't matter and are even willing to poke fun at yourself, you will go far.

As for the paperwork, just do it and hand it in, it will take as long as it needs to take, but unless you were a member of Young Al-Qaeda Beirut Branch, or are wanted for numerous murders, your background check, which may take a while, will come back ok and you'll carry on in the process.


----------



## George Wallace

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> To elaborate on what Cdn_aviator has said...The common perception is that the CF is one big white old boys club where we all drive pick-ups with confederate flags and whistle Dixie on parade.
> 
> The reality is the opposite. In my field squadron we have muslims africans, muslim pakistanis, christian arabs, christian africans, poles (or OPFOR as I like to call them!!!), white rural canadians, urban asian canadians, rural asian canadians, and urban italian canadians.
> 
> They are all canadians, and all bleed the same colour. I, as a Sgt, do not give a rats *** what religion, creed, race or colour someone is, just that they can do the job.
> 
> Nobody else cares about your race or religion except you. If you go looking for people who do, you will probably find it, but if you show up with the attitude that it doesn't matter and are even willing to poke fun at yourself, you will go far.
> 
> As for the paperwork, just do it and hand it in, it will take as long as it needs to take, but unless you were a member of Young Al-Qaeda Beirut Branch, or are wanted for numerous murders, your background check, which may take a while, will come back ok and you'll carry on in the process.


To elaborate more on what CDN Aviator and Towards_the_gap have said:  We all (in the Army) wear the same uniform, work in the same unit, follow the same Rules and Regulations.  We are all the same in that sense.  All the rest is for non-CF folk to worry about.

As for your Security Clearance, we all have to do one.  Give them the info they require, and if there are any questions that you think may arise, fill in the Statutory Declaration to explain.  If you are elusive or evasive, then you run into problems.


----------



## Ignatius J. Reilly

Gascan13 said:
			
		

> Anyway, I applied last year, submitted my application, when I reached the security clearance forms I was stunned to see how much detail they need, addresses for past 10 years...



Submitting such detail, such as addresses for the last 10 years, is even required for applying to sponsor one's foreign-born spouse to immigrate to Canada.  My wife and I had to fill out so many forms that my mind is still reeling.  It is not too far a stretch to imagine that a foreign born applicant to the CF might need at least the same amount of detail, if not a little bit more.


----------



## dimsum

OP:  Look up Trooper Marc Diab.  That should answer at least some of your questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Diab


----------



## blacktriangle

If you are too lazy to fill out the simple paperwork, please do not become an officer.


----------



## AERO2012

Gascan13 said:
			
		

> , but I'm a Christian Lebanese not Muslim.



You are implying that being Christian should give you a head start over Muslims candidates. You are obviously wrong because, since the makeup of the Canadian society has changed, the Canadian military has adopted many non-exclusion policies and regulations to accommodate members of visible minorities. There is therefore no basis for rising false issues that could harm the reputation of the CF within the Muslim communities. I am Arab Muslim, born outside Canada, and I am proud to serve Canada as an officer of the Royal Canadian Air Force.


----------



## Gascan13

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> The whole racial/religion thing is a non issue,  so stop making it out to be one.



I appreciate your opinion but please don't take it the wrong way. I'm not saying that Canadians themselves think that way, but the government does. By being of Arab decent ur subjected immediately to tighter security checks wherever u go so please understand where I'm coming from. It's the unfortunate reality and I'm not even remotely trying to have the spotlight on me, hek the farther it is the better. I don't want to be steryotyped as Arab=desert=camels=possible links to Al qaeda= need to make even tighter security checks than the average Canadian... I'm not saying your average Canadian is like that, Canadians are far more aware of what's going on around the world than your average American for example  I'm saying that as an officer in the Canadian military u would have access to sensitive information so if they see that you're Lebanese or Leb as Canadians like to say =Arab= possible ties to Hizballah= possible intention to infiltrate Canadian forces and leak sensitive info... that would make the whole security process a whole lot longer. I don't blame them for they have every right to make sure that it's safe to admitt that person... And why the hostility just asking, jeez! why u makin such a big deal out of it...


----------



## Gascan13

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The only one making an issue out of your ethnic background is *you*. You're not special, get over yourself.




Great, I'm relieved that's what I wanna hear  Why all the hostility, it's a serious question, I'm not tryin to play around and mention all the religion crap if I weren't hearing rumors about how Arab security checks take forever to end. Just wanted to ask, calm down. For the love of God how the hek am I insinuating that I'm full of myself. Please, I'd appreciate a little bit of respect when addressing one another. U seem like have something against Lebs so cough it up and get over it yourself. Thank you.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Gascan13 said:
			
		

> U seem like have something against Lebs so cough it up and get over it yourself. Thank you.



Are you serious? NOBODY CARES (except you) that you are from Lebanon.

This is exactly what I meant when I said 'if you look for it you will find it'. In no way did CDN_Aviator's remarks seem at all discriminatory based on ethnic background.

He simply said it is a non-issue, and for you to stop making it one.


----------



## Cui

Gascan13 said:
			
		

> I appreciate your opinion but please don't take it the wrong way. I'm not saying that Canadians themselves think that way, but the government does. By being of Arab decent ur subjected immediately to tighter security checks wherever u go so please understand where I'm coming from. It's the unfortunate reality and I'm not even remotely trying to have the spotlight on me, hek the farther it is the better. I don't want to be steryotyped as Arab=desert=camels=possible links to Al qaeda= need to make even tighter security checks than the average Canadian... I'm not saying your average Canadian is like that, Canadians are far more aware of what's going on around the world than your average American for example  I'm saying that as an officer in the Canadian military u would have access to sensitive information so if they see that you're Lebanese or Leb as Canadians like to say =Arab= possible ties to Hizballah= possible intention to infiltrate Canadian forces and leak sensitive info... that would make the whole security process a whole lot longer. I don't blame them for they have every right to make sure that it's safe to admitt that person... And why the hostility just asking, jeez! why u makin such a big deal out of it...



Honestly? I was born in China, immigrated to Canada, my mother still lives in China right now. When I applied to the CF, it really wasn't much of an issue with them, I just had to fill out another form. It was easier for me since I'm still a teenager and didn't really have much in the way of employment. The checks did take a few months, since cooperating with the Canadian authorities probably isn't on the list of priorities for the Chinese officials. But it was done, and there's no problems with that. 

To echo what everyone else has said, it isn't really that big of a deal, if you want to be an officer, get used to doing paperwork anyway. As well, run on sentences and using of "u" and "ur" instead of "you" and "your/you're" doesn't really reflect well on someone who want to be an officer. 

Just my  :2c:


----------



## Eaglelord17

What you don't understand is that you are not going through tougher security checks because your Arab. If you were from Russia or Japan etc. you would still have to fill out the longer forms. It is not a racist policy. It is based on the FACT you were born in a different country not that that country is in the Middle East etc. The only person who is stereotyping right now is you. The Forces welcomes people of all sorts of backgrounds, religions, and cultures. The sooner you get this concept into your head the sooner you will actually be able to move forward. Don't claim discrimination where there is none, you're the one who needs to get over themselves.


----------



## Gascan13

Nobody else cares about your race or religion except you. If you go looking for people who do, you will probably find it, but if you show up with the attitude that it doesn't matter and are even willing to poke fun at yourself, you will go far.

As for the paperwork, just do it and hand it in, it will take as long as it needs to take, but unless you were a member of Young Al-Qaeda Beirut Branch, or are wanted for numerous murders, your background check, which may take a while, will come back ok and you'll carry on in the process.
[/quote]

Thanks for the help I appreciate it. I already know that the Canadian forces is very diverse. I wasn't asking whether people of different ethnic backgrounds are admitted or not, just asking about whether it's worth the long wait. Everyone seems to have taken it personal... And btw u just contradicted yourself, u just stereotyped being Arab as ....by your last sentence about Al qaeda...hehe nothing wrong with that, u have every right to ask that question  but see what I mean by subconscious preemptive steryotyping...


----------



## Gascan13

Dimsum said:
			
		

> OP:  Look up Trooper Marc Diab.  That should answer at least some of your questions.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Diab



Thanks I will


----------



## Eaglelord17

"just asking about whether it's worth the long wait"
Your asking whether it is worth joining the forces because of one background check? If so than this is not the place for you. If that is all it takes to question whether you should be in the forces or not you shouldn't be.


----------



## Gascan13

Spectrum said:
			
		

> If you are too lazy to fill out the simple paperwork, please do not become an officer.



Please do not judge without knowing the reason why I have a few takes on the security process... It's not that I'm lazy just that it's hard to list accurately what they want when you're living in a third world country where addresses aren't as neet and tidy as in Canada... Please I was a former med student and ur saying I'm lazy, it's like an insult to me. Please next time don't judge a person off the top of your head like a child, especially if you haven't even met the person. Would you like it if I told you that judging by your post you'd look like an underage person with no sense of wisdom what so ever, I guess not...Please respect is key to being a disciplined member of the CF, and I'm afraid that you lack that quality...


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Locked.
Let us know how things turn out for you.
Good luck.


----------



## Canadian1992

Hello, I am currently an OCdt at RMC and my trade is pilot. I have dual citizenship with the United States. I was told by a Captain flying CF-18's, who came by RMC for a visit, that in order to fly fighters, pilots undergo a security clearance* above *Top-Secret. He also told me that with dual citizenship I would not be able to obtain said clearance. 

From my reading on this forum, it seems that people have been able to get Top-Secret clearances with dual-citizenship so I don't anticipate any problems getting to that level. Is it true that if you get slotted jets you need to obtain a clearance above top-secret and would dual-citizenship with the United States prevent this from being obtained? 

I know this is all hypothetical but if my dual-citizenship limits my career opportunities  I would like to relinquish it before any snags occur. Any information is much appreciated.


----------



## Transporter

I know what the Capt is talking about. Not trying to sound overly dramatic, but your question is best posed to your chain of command. I know your question seems harmless enough, and I understand your desire to know whether your dual citizenship will be problematic for your chosen MOC, but I don't think security clearance matters should be discussed in public fora regardless of how mundane the issue may seem. My opinion.


----------



## SupersonicMax

There is nothing classified/protected about security clearance levels.  There is no clearance above Top Secret, but you can be further cleared for comparmentalized access (special access). (TS SA). CSIS does the TS clearance and DND does the SA.

Most, if not all Hornet drivers have that level of access, but it is possible to do your day-to-day job, with a Secret Clearance.  You just won't be exposed to some programs. 

You can get TS and SA with 2 citizenships. 

I think there was a good, informative thread from a while back about security clearances.


----------



## MikeL

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I think there was a good, informative thread from a while back about security clearances.



I think this might be the thread you are referring to
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88471.0


----------



## SupersonicMax

That's the one! Thanks


----------



## cupper

But the last thing we would want is for the young lad to fly off to the greener pastures south with one of our Hornets, and all of that advanced technology that the US has been dying to get their hands on. >


----------



## Dirt Digger

Having dual Canadian / US citizen citizenship will not be a barrier with a security clearance - and that's speaking from my experience of going through that exact situation.  

Only weirdness that may occur is if you get posted to the US, in which case you'll be in the country under your US passport instead of a Visa.  

BTW - you mentioned the possibility of renouncing your US citizenship.  FYI, I hope you're filing your yearly FBAR and 1040 tax return with a F8833 declaration under Article XIX of the USA-Canada Tax Convention.  If you try and renounce US citizen and you haven't been filing taxes, it will probably get ugly.


----------



## Occam

cupper said:
			
		

> But the last thing we would want is for the young lad to fly off to the greener pastures south with one of our Hornets, and all of that advanced technology that the US has been dying to get their hands on. >



The Tim Mug holder?


----------



## ModlrMike

I can tell you first hand that being a naturalized Canadian with dual* citizenship had no impact on my holding an SA clearance.


* in my case legally a citizen of 3 domains


----------



## cupper

Occam said:
			
		

> The Tim Mug holder?



SHHHHHHHHH!

No one is supposed to know about those. ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar

So this Captain flies into RMC and starts dropping disinformation bombs? Nice of him.


----------



## SupersonicMax

I think I know whi this is and I'm pretty sure I know why he said that!


----------



## dapaterson

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I can tell you first hand that being a naturalized Canadian with dual* citizenship had no impact on my holding an SA clearance.
> 
> 
> * in my case legally a citizen of 3 domains



Ah, but are you a master of those domains?


----------



## Canadian1992

Awesome thanks a lot for the information! 



			
				Dirt Digger said:
			
		

> BTW - you mentioned the possibility of renouncing your US citizenship.  FYI, I hope you're filing your yearly FBAR and 1040 tax return with a F8833 declaration under Article XIX of the USA-Canada Tax Convention.  If you try and renounce US citizen and you haven't been filing taxes, it will probably get ugly.



Thanks for the reminder, I have been making sure Uncle Sam gets his due!


----------



## PPCLI Guy

Dirt Digger said:
			
		

> Only weirdness that may occur is if you get posted to the US, in which case you'll be in the country under your US passport instead of a Visa.



I have dual citizenship with the UK.  When I was posted there, I simply insisted on using my Canadian passport at all times - to the point that the British Army had to pay for me to get a Visa to visit a country (on duty) that I would not have needed a visa for if I had traveled on my British passport.  It seems the UK rules are less stringent than those of the Americans.


----------



## eaglehawkdown

Good day. Everything is finished (medical,cfat,small interview)and now I am waiting on Pre-security. So after waiting a month and a half and hearing nothing at all I decided to send an e-mail to the right people in charge of my file to show intrest still on two different occasions through out the month and a half. I have not heard anything back from them. I have been growing a tad bit frustrated (hurry up and wait)and was just wondering what suggestions or recommendations anyone might have for me,Thank you in advance.


----------



## DAA

eaglehawkdown said:
			
		

> Good day. Everything is finished (medical,cfat,small interview)and now I am waiting on Pre-security. So after waiting a month and a half and hearing nothing at all I decided to send an e-mail to the right people in charge of my file to show intrest still on two different occasions through out the month and a half. I have not heard anything back from them. I have been growing a tad bit frustrated (hurry up and wait)and was just wondering what suggestions or recommendations anyone might have for me,Thank you in advance.



Not sure I understand your question, as something doesn't seem quite right.  Generally, when a "pre-sec" is required, you don't get beyond the CFAT stage, unless the pre-sec requirement was missed.  Depending on the countries involved, the pre-sec process can take sometime.  Not to mention, who are the "right people" that you emailed?


----------



## eaglehawkdown

I have a parent living outside of Canada hes been out for over 10 years and I myself have not left Canada in over 10 years. And the right people I emailed I am referring to the recruiting office staff that I was dealing with and who gave me their card to contact them.


----------



## Bassil_Inf

Eagle,
I went through the PRESEC Stage due to the fact that my father was out of the country. It all depends on your situation and the reasoning for your PRESEC, but to let you know, mine took about 3-4 weeks if I recall. Other's have had a PRESEC that took months or years. Good luck man.


----------



## DAA

eaglehawkdown said:
			
		

> I have a parent living outside of Canada hes been out for over 10 years and I myself have not left Canada in over 10 years. And the right people I emailed I am referring to the recruiting office staff that I was dealing with and who gave me their card to contact them.



I find that sometimes, it can take over a month before your local CFRC responds to your emails.  Don't know why that is but keep plugging away.  If you are close enough, stop by in person, it can't hurt.


----------



## Spimx

Hello everyone, I just applied to enter the air force as AVN TECH. I am a Canadian citizen living here since July 2007, but my mother lives back home (Dom. Rep.). My question is how long will take background check (security check) since I lived back home for 4 out of the last 10 years. I came to canada when I was 18, pretty young, have no criminal record at all, good credit (not outstanding) record paying my school loan and car loan, live on my own... I will really appreciate any info to know the time frame. I'm really bad on waiting without knowing how long to wait


----------



## frankyboy1

Hey,

I've seen other posts where most people with dual citizenship haven't needed a Pre-assessment, but does having both dual citizenship and a sister living in Kenya increase my chances or even guarantee that I'll need this assessment done? I really don't want to have to wait an additional 6-18 months to get this done...

I have lived in Canada my entire life and have no credit issues or anything.

Regards,
Frank


----------



## canadianintel

Hi guys, I've researched the site and especially the super thread about security clearances but I'm seeking for more help since I haven't found answers to my questions yet. I'm doing my research on the application process to join the CF on their website and I came across this:

*If you have ever lived outside Canada or have an immediate family member who currently lives outside Canada: You will be asked to fill out the “Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire”.  You should be prepared to provide adequate, verifiable information for the last 10 years. This information is used to determine if a Security Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, especially if you:

- have dual citizenship
- if you lived, worked, studied or travelled outside of Canada in the last 10 years for a total of at least 180 days 
- if you have a child, parent, step-parent, spouse, in-laws, brother or sister (half & step) living outside of Canada*

Now I'm quite concerned about this because I will admit I do not fully understand to whom this applies. I'm a Canadian citizen, born and raised here, my imediate family lives here, nobody lives abroad now, but in the last ten years I've been on many vacations outside of Canada. Will they require a security clearance for this? There were times where I traveled at least 4 times in a single year for vacation especially to go visit my ex-girlfriend but I never stayed in a foreign country for more than 180 consecutive days. Nor have I ever considered myself as LIVING in another country. My residence has always been Canada and I never worked outside of our borders. 

Does this apply to those who's days outside of Canada account to more than 180 days all together without them necessarily being consecutive? 

Any thoughts on this will be much appreciated and FYI I will be asking these questions to my local Recruit Center on monday. Truth is I do not look forward to their answers because I've spoken to different recruiters and every one has a different opinion/answer/truth.

Regards


----------



## The_Falcon

1) It's a cumulative total of time, even if it was just vacations
2) A query would be sent first, if you meet the time threshold, or your vacations were in questionable countries
3) Recruiters don't normally do the back office stuff like this, hence why you get different answers from them.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

canadianintel said:
			
		

> Hi guys, I've researched the site and especially the super thread about security clearances but I'm seeking for more help since I haven't found answers to my questions yet. I'm doing my research on the application process to join the CF on their website and I came across this:
> 
> *If you have ever lived outside Canada or have an immediate family member who currently lives outside Canada: You will be asked to fill out the “Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire”.  You should be prepared to provide adequate, verifiable information for the last 10 years. This information is used to determine if a Security Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, especially if you:
> 
> - have dual citizenship
> - if you lived, worked, studied or travelled outside of Canada in the last 10 years for a total of at least 180 days
> - if you have a child, parent, step-parent, spouse, in-laws, brother or sister (half & step) living outside of Canada*
> 
> Now I'm quite concerned about this because I will admit I do not fully understand to whom this applies. I'm a Canadian citizen, born and raised here, my imediate family lives here, nobody lives abroad now, but in the last ten years I've been on many vacations outside of Canada. Will they require a security clearance for this? There were times where I traveled at least 4 times in a single year for vacation especially to go visit my ex-girlfriend but I never stayed in a foreign country for more than 180 consecutive days. Nor have I ever considered myself as LIVING in another country. My residence has always been Canada and I never worked outside of our borders.
> 
> Does this apply to those who's days outside of Canada account to more than 180 days all together without them necessarily being consecutive?
> 
> Any thoughts on this will be much appreciated and FYI I will be asking these questions to my local Recruit Center on monday. Truth is I do not look forward to their answers because I've spoken to different recruiters and every one has a different opinion/answer/truth.
> 
> Regards



It is cumulative time. The pre-security clearance questionnaire just determines if the recruiting office or DPM Pers Secur (Personnel Security Branch in Ottawa) is able to authorize the Reliability Check that you need to enroll. Given the details you provided, I would be shocked if either would not recommend your file for approval. 

Best advice I can give you, fill out the information as honest as you can. I've seen files been rejected for incomplete or inaccurate information. I've also seen people that spent all their lives in "questionable countries" or as NDSP/NDSI call them "Schedule A and Schedule B" countries, be quickly approved. Being in any country won't cause your application to be rejected on it's own.


----------



## George Wallace

As an A/USS, I can tell you it is not "cumulative".  If it is your vacation time, and almost everyone has vacationed outside of the country.  It is just that; a vacation.  The concern will be if you actually took up residence in a foreign country for a period of time.  If it asks for the country that you visited, list the country and dates visited.  Simple as that.   If you have to make any clarification on information, use the "Statutory Declaration" box to explain the situation.

Follow the instructions.  Ensure that there are no breaks in the dates of your residence and education/employment data; the end of one must be one month and the next month being the start of the next.  Ensure that you have all the particulars on all your immediate family; mother, father, brothers and sisters, half brothers and half sisters, step-mother, step-father, etc. as applies to your case.  If you have to make any clarification on or do not know information, use the "Statutory Declaration" box to explain the situation.

If there are any concerns reference your submission, they will send it back to you with a request for what exactly they want.  This will cause delays in your processing, so it is best to provide the information correctly the first time and when in doubt, use the "Statutory Declaration" to clarify any and ALL points that may be requiring clarification or unknown.


----------



## The_Falcon

Our guy repsonsible for Pre-Sec had been told by whoever it is Ottawa that does these checks, it was cummulative time.  Either way, list all the details requested, it's beter to have to much info then to little and have your file get delayed.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As an A/USS, I can tell you it is not "cumulative".  If it is your vacation time, and almost everyone has vacationed outside of the country.  It is just that; a vacation.  The concern will be if you actually took up residence in a foreign country for a period of time.  If it asks for the country that you visited, list the country and dates visited.  Simple as that.   If you have to make any clarification on information, use the "Statutory Declaration" box to explain the situation.
> 
> Follow the instructions.  Ensure that there are no breaks in the dates of your residence and education/employment data; the end of one must be one month and the next month being the start of the next.  Ensure that you have all the particulars on all your immediate family; mother, father, brothers and sisters, half brothers and half sisters, step-mother, step-father, etc. as applies to your case.  If you have to make any clarification on or do not know information, use the "Statutory Declaration" box to explain the situation.
> 
> If there are any concerns reference your submission, they will send it back to you with a request for what exactly they want.  This will cause delays in your processing, so it is best to provide the information correctly the first time and when in doubt, use the "Statutory Declaration" to clarify any and ALL points that may be requiring clarification or unknown.



Sorry George, A/USS's don't fill out this form. This isn't the TBS 330-23e or 330-60e. 

Once again for the recruiting applicant, put all info into the form (http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/pre_secur_en.pdf) and the recruiter will do the rest.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Our guy repsonsible for Pre-Sec had been told by whoever it is Ottawa that does these checks, it was cummulative time.  Either way, list all the details requested, it's beter to have to much info then to little and have your file get delayed.



It is cumulative time. I've been in recruiting before. 

The problem is when people who think "Duh, I was a A/USS" and start making up things on the spot give potential recruits the wrong information. 

I guess it's true that it's best to stay in your lane.


----------



## George Wallace

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> Once again for the recruiting applicant, put all info into the form (http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/pre_secur_en.pdf) and the recruiter will do the rest.



Sorry.  My mistake for using my Quals AEWV, 112800 and 117662 to interpret that document as only requiring one to list where they may have resided/visited/worked/studied OUTSIDE of Canada as simply that.  No mention of cumulative.  A vacation is just that; a vacation.  Almost every Canadian has vacationed outside of Canada.  It is no big deal, unless as pointed out that one visited a "Scheduled Country", which again is a point of debate.   The prospect's stated Residence has been in CANADA, not abroad.  That would be what would be the determining factor in whether or not they met that criteria to enrol.  

The prospect applying to the CAF must meet the criteria to enrol.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry.  My mistake for using my Quals AEWV, 112800 and 117662 to interpret that document as only requiring one to list where they may have resided/visited/worked/studied OUTSIDE of Canada as simply that.  No mention of cumulative.  A vacation is just that; a vacation.  Almost every Canadian has vacationed outside of Canada.  It is no big deal, unless as pointed out that one visited a "Scheduled Country", which again is a point of debate.   The prospect's stated Residence has been in CANADA, not abroad.  That would be what would be the determining factor in whether or not they met that criteria to enrol.
> 
> The prospect applying to the CAF must meet the criteria to enrol.



George, you are complicating a simple process. The applicant puts all the applicable info (including vacations) into the form and the wizards at DP Pers Sec make the determination. It's not for you to make up your own policies as a former A/USS, no matter how many two day/1 week courses you think qualifies you to do so.


----------



## canadianintel

I thank you all for your answers. My residence has always been Canada but in the last ten years I've spent many months abroad on vacation, mostly during the months of summer. Do I have access to the list of Scheduled Countries? I always visited the same two countries during the last ten years, and finding the exact dates for all these vacations will be a headache, do I absolutely need to give the exact dates?


----------



## George Wallace

canadianintel said:
			
		

> I thank you all for your answers. My residence has always been Canada but in the last ten years I've spent many months abroad on vacation, mostly during the months of summer. Do I have access to the list of Scheduled Countries? I always visited the same two countries during the last ten years, and finding the exact dates for all these vacations will be a headache, do I absolutely need to give the exact dates?



The current lists are countries listed by DFAIT, and for the most part they are nothing more than Country travel advice and advisories.  

If the countries you have been visiting are members of NATO, the European Economic Community, or any allied nation of Canada, there is usually no problems.  Problems do start to arise when you have resided or studied abroad, in any nation.  That may call for you to then acquire a Criminal Records Check from that country.  Fill in the information on the form as requested, and the CFRC will then accept it as is or question you further.


----------



## canadianintel

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The current lists are countries listed by DFAIT, and for the most part they are nothing more than Country travel advice and advisories.
> 
> If the countries you have been visiting are members of NATO, the European Economic Community, or any allied nation of Canada, there is usually no problems.  Problems do start to arise when you have resided or studied abroad, in any nation.  That may call for you to then acquire a Criminal Records Check from that country.  Fill in the information on the form as requested, and the CFRC will then accept it as is or question you further.



From 2009 to 2014 I have spent close to 14 months abroad , an average of 2.8 months per year , non-consecutively , on vacation on a TOURIST visa to a country that the Canadian travel advice website says to "Exercise a high degree of caution". Hint, this years soccer world cup will be organized there. I looked at the Pre-Enrollment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire. On question 3 when it says "Where and how long did you reside/visit/work/study outside of Canada" and I have to write down how long I stayed in each country for, should I list that country once only and write 14 months between 2009 to 2014? There not enough space to describe in full details the length of each trip. The second country I visited within the last ten years is a stable, calm country and NATO member.

I also do not see where it allows me to explain the purpose of add any details about my trips on the questionnaire. Oh and one last thing, should I even bother jotting down my weekend spent in NYC 4 years ago?


----------



## The_Falcon

canadianintel said:
			
		

> From 2009 to 2014 I have spent close to 14 months abroad , an average of 2.8 months per year , non-consecutively , on vacation on a TOURIST visa to a country that the Canadian travel advice website says to "Exercise a high degree of caution". Hint, this years soccer world cup will be organized there. I looked at the Pre-Enrollment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire. On question 3 when it says "Where and how long did you reside/visit/work/study outside of Canada" and I have to write down how long I stayed in each country for, should I list that country once only and write 14 months between 2009 to 2014? There not enough space to describe in full details the length of each trip. The second country I visited within the last ten years is a stable, calm country and NATO member.
> 
> I also do not see where it allows me to explain the purpose of add any details about my trips on the questionnaire. Oh and one last thing, should I even bother jotting down my weekend spent in NYC 4 years ago?



You can use a second sheet if required.  Write down all the pertinent details in a logical way, so the CFRC staff can understand it.  If they require further clarification after you submit it, they will contact you.


----------



## George Wallace

Keep It Simple S______ or Keep It S_____ Simple is a term you will become familiar with (KISS).


If you think that there are going to be any questions, list everything chronologically in order with time spent:  For example:

Kuwait   2009 for 2 months
Kenya    2010 for 2 months
Kuwait    2010 for 3 weeks
France    2011 for 2 months
Spain      2012 for X months 
France    2013 for X months

Answer the questions as simply as possible to alleviate any confusion and you should have fewer questions asked.  The more convoluted your answer, the more questions will be asked.

If you really don't have the answer yet, please just go to the CFRC and ask them exactly what they want.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The current lists are countries listed by DFAIT, and for the most part they are nothing more than Country travel advice and advisories.
> 
> If the countries you have been visiting are members of NATO, the European Economic Community, or any allied nation of Canada, there is usually no problems.  Problems do start to arise when you have resided or studied abroad, in any nation.  That may call for you to then acquire a Criminal Records Check from that country.  Fill in the information on the form as requested, and the CFRC will then accept it as is or question you further.



Once again, wrong. George you don't know what you are talking about so stop, just stop. The list of countries is in the NDSP/NDSI under change of circumstance (which a competent USS should know). DFAIT does travel advisories, nothing related to security clearances.


----------



## The_Falcon

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> Once again, wrong. George you don't know what you are talking about so stop, just stop. The list of countries is in the NDSP/NDSI under change of circumstance (which a competent USS should know). DFAIT does travel advisories, nothing related to security clearances.



You are the one who needs to stop, George, didn't say DFAIT or their travel advisories were related to the clearance process.  The OP asked what countries would be on the list of "suspect" countries, and the information put out by DFAIT is about as good as your going to get publicly on what countries may pose an issue. 

I already warned you about getting personal earlier today. You get to go in time out for a while

And this thread is now locked. 

Hatchet Man
Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## rebeccag19

Hi all,
I've read through most of the thread.. Anyways, I was given a security clearance form to complete before I head off to basic. So, I was just curious to know (if anybody knows) what level of clearance med techs need?

Thanks all!


----------



## DAA

rebeccag19 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> I've read through most of the thread.. Anyways, I was given a security clearance form to complete before I head off to basic. So, I was just curious to know (if anybody knows) what level of clearance med techs need?
> 
> Thanks all!



According to the MOS ID Specs, minimum requirement for employment in the Reg F is Level II (Secret) and in the Res F (PRes) is Level I (Confidential).


----------



## JoeDos

I did security forms when I first applied and met the recruiter to confirm I knew what I was doing and to sign the paper saying this is what I wanted to do, but I received the forms again when my File Manager scheduled my CFAT and I was wondering should I print them out and bring them with me when I do the CFAT? Or can I send them to my file manager now, along with my resume?


----------



## DAA

JosephD said:
			
		

> I did security forms when I first applied and met the recruiter to confirm I knew what I was doing and to sign the paper saying this is what I wanted to do, but I received the forms again when my File Manager scheduled my CFAT and I was wondering should I print them out and bring them with me when I do the CFAT? Or can I send them to my file manager now, along with my resume?



You can do them now but they are going to want a copy with an "original" signature on them.


----------



## Badner

REFERENCE QUESTIONS

Hey guys,

So I am in the process of applying for NCM reserve infantry. I filled out the standard reference section, with my 5 professional references yada yada yada, however due to my being a dual citizen (UK) I had to fill out an additional "long screening" security form.

I was born in Canada, and have resided here al my life, however I hold dual citizenship to the UK through my father, as well as two passports.

My question is: How much extra time does this usually add to the application process, and does anyone have any horror stories of bureaucratic hassle as a result of this?

Any info about the additional process is appreciated. Thank you.
Modify message


----------



## MPHopeful13

The search tool and Google are your friend.  This has been asked and answered many times. 
Found these in about 2 mins:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101913.0
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29592.0
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/104733.0 - Q. 1


----------



## ModlrMike

You're fine, don't stress. Your situation is no different than many new applicants. Given that your Canadian by birth, the net effect of your citizenship be descent should be minimal.


----------



## bouncer2004

Badner said:
			
		

> REFERENCE QUESTIONS
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> So I am in the process of applying for NCM reserve infantry. I filled out the standard reference section, with my 5 professional references yada yada yada, however due to my being a dual citizen (UK) I had to fill out an additional "long screening" security form.
> 
> I was born in Canada, and have resided here al my life, however I hold dual citizenship to the UK through my father, as well as two passports.
> 
> My question is: How much extra time does this usually add to the application process, and does anyone have any horror stories of bureaucratic hassle as a result of this?
> 
> Any info about the additional process is appreciated. Thank you.
> Modify message



As long as you haven't had an extended period out of Canada, you should be fine.  Extended period is more than 3 continuous months in a calendar year if I remember correctly...


----------



## s2184

Don't be surprised if you get clearance in less than three weeks.


----------



## Goose15

bouncer2004 said:
			
		

> As long as you haven't had an extended period out of Canada, you should be fine.  Extended period is more than 3 continuous months in a calendar year if I remember correctly...



This has been changed to 6 consecutive months.


----------



## andmaz

I applied for Legal Officer position in August 2014. After initial interview with recruiting officer, CFAT and Pre-Sec interview I was informed in December 2013 that I was selected for a full security check. Submitted all the required forms right before Christmas and still waiting for reply.
How long does it take to conduct a full security check (the country in question is Russia), especially after all the Crimea stuff?


----------



## Goose15

Check this thread: The Security Check/ Level Superthread


----------



## The_Falcon

It will take however long it needs to take...don`t sit around by the phone for the next several months.  And yes if we are not on good terms diplomatically with a country, it will take longer.


----------



## George Wallace

andmaz said:
			
		

> I applied for Legal Officer position in August 2014. After initial interview with recruiting officer, CFAT and Pre-Sec interview I was informed in December 2013 that I was selected for a full security check. Submitted all the required forms right before Christmas and still waiting for reply.
> How long does it take to conduct a full security check (the country in question is Russia), especially after all the Crimea stuff?



 ;D

In the meantime, you may start by getting your "proof reading" skills up to snuff.  Legal matters will demand that of you.


----------



## Marchog

Reading this thread is horrifying.  :'(

I notice that a lot of the earlier posts (2004-2005 era) talk about year-long waits for presec due to living in the UK for as little as a year, however it seems that in their cases, they did not submit a request for a UK police check themselves and had to wait for the RCMP [sic] to do so. I was made to acquire one myself and it was sent to Ottawa already complete. I'm just wondering if anyone else has more recent experience with UK related wait times. Not that I can do anything to speed it up, I'm just morbidly curious in a damage-assessment sort of way.


----------



## guitargod1227

Just a quick question. During the security check when they look at your housing arrangements for the past 5 years, I have lived at a few different places and not always changed address so I'm not sure what addresses would be on file and I'm not sure what addresses to put down. If I miss one or two or have the wrong dates will this be a big deal? Same with employment, on my application I only put jobs that apply to my trade. Will I get in trouble for not listing them all? Thanks.


----------



## 211RadOp

Put down all addresses and work during the last five years.  That is why they ask for it.  If you are not completely forthcoming on your information, how can they trust you?


----------



## guitargod1227

If I explain to them that I am unsure about the address because I was moving every few months due to family members being ill and having to take care of them will they cut me some slack? Same with the jobs, if I explain that I left some out because they didn't pertain to the job I applied for will they cut me some slack? Like basically just explain why things are off?


----------



## KerryBlue

No, explaining to them is not an excuse for leaving things off. Being a university student I would live 4 months at home then in rez, then at home, then in a different home back at school. Same with jobs, worked part time as a hockey referee both at home and where I went to school and summer jobs. I was told by the recruiter to put down every address and job for the last five years. You are not an exception to the rule and will notice signs in the recruiting center that say with holding or providing false information is an offence punishable with jail time.


----------



## guitargod1227

I didn't mean that I am going to lie on the security form I am just asking if I put where I have lived but I didn't change my address every time meaning what they look up is different than what I wrote down will there be issues? I wouldn't be lying it's just that when I moved every three months I didn't change my address with the government.


----------



## KerryBlue

Neither did I. But still I was told to put down where I had lived. So mine was home, school, home, school  now home again. I would suggest while filling out your paper work to be as thorough as you can possibly be.


----------



## George Wallace

:


This topic is now LOCKED.


To the OP.

Why do you think we even bother to create stickied topics to answer your every question, (if only you would take the time to look) such as this one:

The Security Check/ Level Superthread- Check Here First  ?


----------



## guitargod1227

During the Security check, If I list that I have lived at Address 1, Address 2, Address 3 etc... but when they investigate it only show 2 places out of 5 that I have lived, is this a big deal? I never switched my mailing address over when I moved for the last 5 years so it will only show 2 places instead of 5. Should I put all 5 on the form and will it affect anything?


----------



## Teager

guitargod1227 said:
			
		

> During the Security check, If I list that I have lived at Address 1, Address 2, Address 3 etc... but when they investigate it only show 2 places out of 5 that I have lived, is this a big deal? I never switched my mailing address over when I moved for the last 5 years so it will only show 2 places instead of 5. Should I put all 5 on the form and will it affect anything?



I'm pretty sure this question was answered for you in another thread. There are no short cuts list everything! If you are to lazy to do the paper work properly then perhaps the military isn't for you.


----------



## guitargod1227

I am going to list everything, just wanted to make sure that if what I write is different than what they check I'll be ok. They will have less information than what I write down.


----------



## George Wallace

guitargod1227 said:
			
		

> I am going to list everything, just wanted to make sure that if what I write is different than what they check I'll be ok. They will have less information than what I write down.



Looking at your posting history, you have some very serious problems.  You are applying for a job that takes its "SECURITY" very seriously.  You have posted questions now reference your poor Credit History, and now are asking questions about the "Security Check" and whether or not you should be listing all your residences.   This is not fracking rocket science.  It is simple and straight forward.  Fill in the questions asked, listing all details in chronological order, with NO BREAKS in timelines.  If you have any questions that have not been asked and answered here, ask them at the CFRC for clarification.  

It is quite obvious that you have not read this topic and found your answers, or you have a problem with comprehension.   You would be advised to read before you post and if you can not comprehend the simplest of instructions, nor information presented, you will find it difficult to be accepted into the Profession of Arms.

NOW!   Before you go and post another redundant question, READ what has been asked and answered already.
















Jerry's Kids.


----------



## horadricbacon

I'm looking for a possible suggestion.

My application is currently being reviewed.  It's been suggested that I have a out-of-country criminal check completed while waiting.  I lived in the United States 4 years ago.

I called the police department where I lived, but they require me to show up in person before they can give me a document saying that I have no criminal history.

Any advice on how to acquire a criminal check for the Unites States would be helpful.  Thanks.

The only way that I can see to complete such a process is through the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks).  Maybe this is my only answer.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

HoradricBacon said:
			
		

> I'm looking for a possible suggestion.
> 
> My application is currently being reviewed.  It's been suggested that I have a out-of-country criminal check completed while waiting.  I lived in the United States 4 years ago.
> 
> I called the police department where I lived, but they require me to show up in person before they can give me a document saying that I have no criminal history.
> 
> Any advice on how to acquire a criminal check for the Unites States would be helpful.  Thanks.
> 
> The only way that I can see to complete such a process is through the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks).  Maybe this is my only answer.



Okay, my understanding is that if you had lived outside Canada, when they did your background check, Canadian authorities would contact the relevant foreign agency to determine if you were in the clear. You might just want to check with your recruiting centre for clarification.

Having said that, I did a little Google-Fu and did find this link to the  Commissionaires BC website stating they can do out-of-country background checks. If the Commissionaires in BC can do the check, then its possible your local Commissionaires can also do it.


----------



## mm3212

My question is regarding the pervious employer background check, I read through the "References Megathread" but I wanted to get an updated post 2009 answer from a recruiter as that was the last time it was mentioned.  

Basically, I have submitted my application online and am waiting for further contact.  I know at some point I will have to provide five personal/professional references, but my question is for the employment history background check do I have to provide a telephone number for every single employer I listed under the Employment History on my initial online application, or just for the most recent one or two?  I ask simply because some of my previous places of employment were upwards of five years ago and have either gone out of business, or the company was sold and moved, and or my managers/bosses have long since moved on.  

Any clarification on what I need to provide in terms of the employment history background check would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Master Corporal Steven

Good day,

When providing information on past employer's, supervisors etc do your best to locate the pone numbers and contact information for them.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Had an employer that no longer exists. I listed the name of my supervisor at the time, the location of the head office, and a central switchboard phone number. All of which post 2011 no longer exist. 

There were no issues.


----------



## George Wallace

MCpl Steven/WO Gregory

Don't forget the use of the "Statutory Declaration" where one can explain any unknown facts or further clarify information on the application.


----------



## mm3212

Thank you all for your rapid information and assistance.  I was a little worried after I submitted my application when I realized a few of my past employers no longer existed!


----------



## Okanagan Guy

Would an immediate family member who has been in and out of prison inhibit one's ability to obtain a security clearance? Charges are drug and weapons related.


----------



## Albertoca

Hi Guys,
I have been waiting my security clearance(level II) for 13 months. and I wanted to call my file manager. and My file manager told me to come there and sign the same forms, which I signed them 13 months ago(TBS/SCT 330-60E(long form ) and TBS/SCT 330-23E(short form)) . I only signed the last pages which signature  and initial needs. Does anyone has similar experience? and asked him after this point how long I will wait. He could not give a perfect answer. Told me 6 to 18 months. it was very illogical. I have already waited for 13 months.


----------



## TJC

The form asks for the places I've been to outside of Canada for the past 10 years. I've travelled twice overseas in that time but I've also crossed the border to the US quite a number of times.  Would I have to include every border crossing to the US?  Cause that's a lot of dates to try to remember.


----------



## PMedMoe

TJC said:
			
		

> The form asks for the places I've been to outside of Canada for the past 10 years. I've travelled twice overseas in that time but I've also crossed the border to the US quite a number of times.  Would I have to include every border crossing to the US?  Cause that's a lot of dates to try to remember.



Pretty sure they don't need (or want) the info on _every_ trip.


----------



## George Wallace

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Pretty sure they don't need (or want) the info on _every_ daytrip to the US of A.



TFTFY


----------



## NapoV

Does a pilot headed to basic require level II or level III clearance? I'm filling out my form and I wasn't told which I require. Thanks.


----------



## Eventualyeti

Hello everyone,

I am at the reliability check stage of the recruitment process, and I have been informed that because I was living in China (teaching English in a high school) between 2011-2013 that I will require a security check. I have been accepted for a specialist job in the Canadian Forces, and the contract starts on April 19th. I have no criminal record, I have provided every address and relevant contact number, with no gaps for the last 10 years, and my only debt is students loans, and I am still in school. 

What are my chances of having the security check complete before April 19th, given the above information? It would be a shame to have to turn down their offer of employment because the security check took too long.

Thanks very much for all your replies.


----------



## George Wallace

NapoV said:
			
		

> Does a pilot headed to basic require level II or level III clearance? I'm filling out my form and I wasn't told which I require. Thanks.



It is very unusual for anyone headed to Basic to have to start a Security Clearance before they have even been successful in passing Basic.   You will only have to do an Enhanced Reliability Check.

Your only concern is to fill out all the required blocks on the forms so that they can do a preliminary screening of your criminal and financial records.  READ the instructions and follow them.


----------



## NapoV

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It is very unusual for anyone headed to Basic to have to start a Security Clearance before they have even been successful in passing Basic.   You will only have to do an Enhanced Reliability Check.
> 
> Your only concern is to fill out all the required blocks on the forms so that they can do a preliminary screening of your criminal and financial records.  READ the instructions and follow them.


Thanks.


----------



## George Wallace

Eventualyeti said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am at the reliability check stage of the recruitment process, and I have been informed that because I was living in China (teaching English in a high school) between 2011-2013 that I will require a security check. I have been accepted for a specialist job in the Canadian Forces, and the contract starts on April 19th. I have no criminal record, I have provided every address and relevant contact number, with no gaps for the last 10 years, and my only debt is students loans, and I am still in school.
> 
> What are my chances of having the security check complete before April 19th, given the above information? It would be a shame to have to turn down their offer of employment because the security check took too long.
> 
> Thanks very much for all your replies.



Please.

Have you read this whole thread?

A Security Check TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________.  Follow the instructions given you and get them the information they want for your Security Screening as soon as you can.  The longer you do not do so, the less likelihood that you will be in the CAF before 19 April of this year.


----------



## Eventualyeti

Thanks for your reply.

Is there a difference between getting a security clearance versus the check they do for people with foreign implications (which I have from living in China)? I don't think I will need a higher security clearance for the job beyond the enhanced reliability check (ERC), because it is the ceremonial guard, not an officer position or anything that requires a higher level of security clearance. However, the background check for foreign implications seems to be a different check.

I hope I'm wrong about this, which would mean they only have to do the ERC before I can start basic.

Again thanks very much for your helpful replies!


----------



## Vell

Eventualyeti said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am at the reliability check stage of the recruitment process, and I have been informed that because I was living in China (teaching English in a high school) between 2011-2013 that I will require a security check. I have been accepted for a specialist job in the Canadian Forces, and the contract starts on April 19th. I have no criminal record, I have provided every address and relevant contact number, with no gaps for the last 10 years, and my only debt is students loans, and I am still in school.
> 
> What are my chances of having the security check complete before April 19th, given the above information? It would be a shame to have to turn down their offer of employment because the security check took too long.
> 
> Thanks very much for all your replies.



Replace 'China' with 'Japan' and you are about in the same situation as me. In my case, it have been waiting about 16 month and counting. I am still waiting for my enhanced security check to complete. You could be longer, you could be shorter though, that is just my case.


I have also been told that I may have to go in for an interview with CSIS. Very strange considering I have not so much as a parking ticket and 'teaching English' in Japan is not exactly the most suspicious of activities. Has anyone ever ran into this situation and if so, why were you asked to go in?


----------



## dapaterson

There can be any number of reasons for a "hit" requiring an in-person interview.  For example, I have a friend who volunteers with youth, and shares the same birthdate as a criminal; when they run a check on him based on his DOB there's a hit, so he gets interviewed to ensure he's not the same person working under an assumed name.  It could be based on other people who were on an overseas flight with you; you don't know them, but the raw data shows overlap between you, and they are "persons of interest".

Worrying about it does nothing.


----------



## Vell

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There can be any number of reasons for a "hit" requiring an in-person interview.  For example, I have a friend who volunteers with youth, and shares the same birthdate as a criminal; when they run a check on him based on his DOB there's a hit, so he gets interviewed to ensure he's not the same person working under an assumed name.  It could be based on other people who were on an overseas flight with you; you don't know them, but the raw data shows overlap between you, and they are "persons of interest".
> 
> Worrying about it does nothing.



Worrying does nothing, but spending an additional 4000$ for another trip to Canada and back to Japan is certainly something I worry about. I may not have much debt, but my application to the CAF is going to put me into it (it will be my second trip to Canada for processing issues, the first being for the Medical/CFAT/Interview). The first trip out was a foreseen expense, this one is not.

If it has to be done it has to be done so I just have to grit my teeth and bear it. It is certainly a kick in the nads though. 

*Edit* On the positive side, if I get accepted and go to BMQ, if I ever think to myself 'This is too hard', 'I miss my family', or 'I want to VR' that thought will promptly be replaced with 'You paid over 10 000$ for this opportunity, suck it up'... kind of like how university was on my own dime.


----------



## PuckChaser

Vell said:
			
		

> I have also been told that I may have to go in for an interview with CSIS. Very strange considering I have not so much as a parking ticket and 'teaching English' in Japan is not exactly the most suspicious of activities. Has anyone ever ran into this situation and if so, why were you asked to go in?



If you've got nothing to hide, who cares? I've been in a few interviews for security clearances, nothing to worry about. Be completely honest in any question you answer, and you'll be fine.


----------



## Vell

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If you've got nothing to hide, who cares? I've been in a few interviews for security clearances, nothing to worry about. Be completely honest in any question you answer, and you'll be fine.



As I said, I have no problem with the interview itself (perhaps it will even be interesting since I have never talked to CSIS before), it is the trip to Canada from Japan to do it that is the problem (unless the CAF pays for it, which I highly doubt will be the case). I have also never heard of this before so I did not budget for the trip (it will have to be all on the credit card).


----------



## trolling_thunder

Hello all! 

I was informed by my CFRC that I needed to attend this interview. I tried searching for more information about this interview online to no avail. Google had 0 relevant result. Apparently not many people have ever had to go through it. 

My main questions are:
1) What is this interview? 
2) How is it conducted? Is it just a face to face interview? 
3) How can I better prepare for it? 

If anyone could please shed some light on this, I would be extremely grateful. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Reserve6

Hi Murky and welcome to the forums.

When it comes to interviews just be yourself and be expected to know what trade you want to get into. An interview is pretty straight forward and should be face to face. Just treat it like a regular civilian job interview. It gives the recruiter and opportunity to get a feel of you.  In addition if you want to go into Infantry (for example), make sure you know or get to know as much as you can about it. A good place to get to know your trade your interested is on the forces website. In addition get to know a little bit about the forces as an organization. The only way to prepare for an interview is to know your stuff and just be confident. 

Good luck!


----------



## Reserve6

In addition to my first post. There is a thread related to interviews that I am sure can be helpful to you: http://army.ca/forums/threads/12755.0.html

(Moderators sorry for the double post, I could not find the edit button). 

Cheers


----------



## trolling_thunder

While I really appreciate you taking the time to post some useful information, it does not fully answer the question of what this interview is. 

Seems like no one has ever heard of this.


----------



## DAA

Murky said:
			
		

> Hello all!
> 
> I was informed by my CFRC that I needed to attend this interview. I tried searching for more information about this interview online to no avail. Google had 0 relevant result. Apparently not many people have ever had to go through it.
> 
> My main questions are:
> 1) What is this interview?
> 2) How is it conducted? Is it just a face to face interview?
> 3) How can I better prepare for it?
> 
> If anyone could please shed some light on this, I would be extremely grateful. Thanks in advance.



Are you applying Reg or Res F?  Have you had your Med/Interview yet?


----------



## mariomike

"Pre-interview RS Assessment Questions". 

Is that this?

Canadian Forces Trait Self Descriptive Personality Inventory  
 http://army.ca/forums/threads/109056.0


----------



## DAA

mariomike said:
			
		

> "Pre-interview RS Assessment Questions".
> 
> Is that this?
> 
> Canadian Forces Trait Self Descriptive Personality Inventory
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/109056.0



No.  If I had to "guess" and if the individual has not done the Medical yet, then it sounds as though this might be an abbreviated "Suitability Interview" to determine eligibility to join the CAF.  It's hard to tell at this point.


----------



## trolling_thunder

DAA said:
			
		

> Are you applying Reg or Res F?  Have you had your Med/Interview yet?



Regular force DEO. I qualified for nearly all officer trades on the CFAT, or so I was told. I passed the medical exam and was going to have the interview on the same day. But the interview was called off 15 minutes before the start when they found out that I must go through a security check. I then filled out some forms and waited for an update in the last 4 months until now. 

I actually asked the recruiter what this pre-interview assessment was all about. Unfortunately the recruiter could not tell me anything other than it is for the security background check, because the recruiter didn't know anything else either. 

It's so strange that there is very little information about this step in the recruiting process. 




p.s. It is not the personality questionnaire. I already took it when I did the CFAT.


----------



## mariomike

DAA said:
			
		

> No.  If I had to "guess" and if the individual has not done the Medical yet, then it sounds as though this might be an abbreviated "Suitability Interview" to determine eligibility to join the CAF.  It's hard to tell at this point.



Thanks, DAA.


----------



## DAA

Murky said:
			
		

> Regular force DEO. I qualified for nearly all officer trades on the CFAT, or so I was told. I passed the medical exam and was going to have the interview on the same day. But the interview was called off 15 minutes before the start when they found out that I must go through a security check. I then filled out some forms and waited for an update in the last 4 months until now.
> 
> I actually asked the recruiter what this pre-interview assessment was all about. Unfortunately the recruiter could not tell me anything other than it is for the security background check, because the recruiter didn't know anything else either.
> 
> It's so strange that there is very little information about this step in the recruiting process.



Sounds like the Pre-Security Assessment and nothing to be concerned with.  Basic questions and answers.


----------



## Doc Holliday

Yeah don't sweat it. It's by the book, not too much thinking. As long as you are A) Honest with the interviewer. and B) Don't spout out anything too outlandish in response to a question. You should be fine.


----------



## KoB

I'm 18 and planning on applying to the reserve force at some point within the next year or so, but I'm wondering how long he whole process will take.

Reason I ask is because while I'm a Canadian citizen and have lived here almost all my life, I was born in the UK. I heard that this will extend the process for a very long time with security clearance checks and such. Is this talking like a few extra weeks? Months? I've seen someone mention that a man from Russia waited years before he was contacted again. Just want to know if I'm wasting my time trying to get into the forces or if I'm better off trying to get into a civilian trade.

Thanks


----------



## Fishbone Jones

KoB said:
			
		

> I'm 18 and planning on applying to the reserve force at some point within the next year or so, but I'm wondering how long he whole process will take.
> 
> Reason I ask is because while I'm a Canadian citizen and have lived here almost all my life, I was born in the UK. I heard that this will extend the process for a very long time with security clearance checks and such. Is this talking like a few extra weeks? Months? I've seen someone mention that a man from Russia waited years before he was contacted again. Just want to know if I'm wasting my time trying to get into the forces or if I'm better off trying to get into a civilian trade.
> 
> Thanks



You already asked this question. The answers won't change. Go read the Guidelines and quit spamming the boards.

---Staff---


----------



## juliandam26

Hi,

I am a dual citizen (born in a south american country), moved to Canada several years ago, and got my citizenship in 2013. I did apply for 3 officer trades, and I have already passed CFAT (apparently very competitive results) about one month ago and I am looking forward to my next step into the application process. Also, I have previous military experience serving in my native country armed forces.

I would like to know from a dual citizen perspective (or people that have dual citizens in their squadrons) how has been for them the life within the CAF? if it is possible to get promotions specially as an officer? any sort of discrimination (although I never had experienced any sort of discrimination since I moved to Canada),  or any experience you think may help.

P.S: I know for dual citizens, the security clearance takes way longer than normal.

Thanks.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Honestly, there is no difference between being a Canadian citizen and a Dual National. As long as you are a Canadian citizen and wish to do your part and have been approved for enrollment, you are one of the crew. I am a dual citizen as well and honestly, if you don't tell anyone, nobody will know the difference. Same goes if you do tell people, as long as you pull your weight and are a team player it doesn't matter.


----------



## mariomike

There is a merged thread on Dual Citizenship in the CAF you may find of interest:

Dual citizenship/enrollment, security clearance, etc. (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/29592.50.html



			
				Juliandam26 said:
			
		

> any sort of discrimination (although I never had experienced any sort of discrimination since I moved to Canada),



That topic, and Diversity in Recruitment, have been merged into this discussion:
http://army.ca/forums/threads/315.300.html


----------



## BillN

I served for 25 years, regular and reserve, and was a dual citizen the whole time.  No issues......period !!


----------



## Ostrozac

We have had dual citizens make it pretty far in their careers, including Chief of Defence Staff.  It's really no big deal.

Other countries (south of the border comes to mind) take dual citizenship much more seriously. Canada doesn't.


----------



## Loachman

The only important part of dual citizenship is the Canadian part. Whatever the other part is, just provide some of that part's unique cuisine and fermented/distilled beverage from time-to-time.


----------



## PanaEng

the only issue might be with security clearance. You might not get Top Secret right away (if required). For most occupations, secret is enough. For TS they need to confirm your history back 10yrs.


----------



## juliandam26

Thanks to all, I really appreciate your input and comments.


----------



## need2know

I am 17 i dont think i will be going through one


----------



## need2know

o we need to drop this form (Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire) to the CFRC before applying online? or do we have to hand this in when called for CFAT? Thanks


----------



## The Bread Guy

1)  Multiple posts, especially with the same question = spamming = not on at Army.ca.

2)  There's lots of stuff already here - look at aaaaaaallll the posts before yours on this thread (merged to make it easier for you to hunt).

Patience, padawan ....





*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## manna15

The application no longer has a box where you can check off whether or not they can contact employers. I have not been able to find a discussion that says whether or not they will call current employers or not, now that the boxes aren't there. Does this mean that they are called by default or that they aren't called at all.

I have nothing to hide at my workplace, but I don't want my employers to think me a flight risk if my application is rejected.


----------



## DAA

manna15 said:
			
		

> The application no longer has a box where you can check off whether or not they can contact employers. I have not been able to find a discussion that says whether or not they will call current employers or not, now that the boxes aren't there. Does this mean that they are called by default or that they aren't called at all.
> 
> I have nothing to hide at my workplace, but I don't want my employers to think me a flight risk if my application is rejected.



Which application or form are you referring to?  The CF likes its' paperwork, so there are many many many forms.


----------



## Valhrafn

manna15 said:
			
		

> The application no longer has a box where you can check off whether or not they can contact employers. I have not been able to find a discussion that says whether or not they will call current employers or not, now that the boxes aren't there. Does this mean that they are called by default or that they aren't called at all.
> 
> I have nothing to hide at my workplace, but I don't want my employers to think me a flight risk if my application is rejected.



I filled out the Personal Data Verification forms within the past two weeks. In Employment History there is a section that says *If current employer, may we contact?* with three possible boxes to check off: Yes, No, and Not Applicable. I've filled this same form out a couple of times for different applications. You may want to ask for the proper forms from your Recruiting Centre. I had mine e-mailed to me and was able to e-mail them back.


----------



## GreenWood

I would inform your employer just in case, better he knows if ever he gets a call then if he doesn't.

They called 2 of my employers..


----------



## DnentonSg

I also filled out the personal data verification form that ValhrafN referred too and also had the option to check said boxes. This was just a week ago for my interview


----------



## manna15

Valhrafn said:
			
		

> I filled out the Personal Data Verification forms within the past two weeks. In Employment History there is a section that says *If current employer, may we contact?* with three possible boxes to check off: Yes, No, and Not Applicable. I've filled this same form out a couple of times for different applications. You may want to ask for the proper forms from your Recruiting Centre. I had mine e-mailed to me and was able to e-mail them back.


I'm referring to the online application form that you are directed to on the "apply now" section of the forces website. Where I fill in employment history it just asks for place and dates of employment. Are you saying that I can fill out the paper application without going through the website or should I still go through the site first and the paper trail comes after?

Will I have more paperwork further into the process that you are all referring to?





			
				GreenWood said:
			
		

> I would inform your employer just in case, better he knows if ever he gets a call then if he doesn't.
> 
> They called 2 of my employers..


You certainly have a valid point that I'll think about, but I still don't think I'll say anything. If there's a chance they won't find out I'll take it. I'm also the gatekeeper of the main phone line. Good to know they're actually checking in though.

I also really appreciate all of you replying. I wasn't aware there were more application forms.


----------



## Valhrafn

manna15 said:
			
		

> I'm referring to the online application form that you are directed to on the "apply now" section of the forces website. Where I fill in employment history it just asks for place and dates of employment. Are you saying that I can fill out the paper application without going through the website or should I still go through the site first and the paper trail comes after?
> 
> Will I have more paperwork further into the process that you are all referring to?You certainly have a valid point that I'll think about, but I still don't think I'll say anything. If there's a chance they won't find out I'll take it. I'm also the gatekeeper of the main phone line. Good to know they're actually checking in though.
> 
> I also really appreciate all of you replying. I wasn't aware there were more application forms.


The online application is the first thing you have to complete. Once it's completed, you will be contacted by e-mail telling you whether or not your application has been selected for further processing. After this, your Recruiting Centre will call you to book your medical and CFAT and will send you an e-mail verification with attached forms (Personal Data Verification, Personnel Screening and Security Clearance) which will include the employment history and contacts that you're talking about. You will have to bring these forms to your CFAT testing day.


----------



## manna15

That makes much more sense. Thank you very much! It appears I've been concerned over nothing.


----------



## DnentonSg

manna15 said:
			
		

> That makes much more sense. Thank you very much! It appears I've been concerned over nothing.



If I can say one thing about the application process is that youre going to have to fill out many different forms all with similar information on each one, but the personal data verification is the one that Garda (CF hires them to perform this check) will be looking at and contacting your references from.


----------



## manna15

That is much clearer. Thank you for your insight! It looks like you're pretty far into it already.


----------



## DAA

manna15 said:
			
		

> I'm referring to the online application form that you are directed to on the "apply now" section of the forces website. Where I fill in employment history it just asks for place and dates of employment.



There you go, mystery solved.  Employers listed on the application form will not be contacted.


----------



## canucksnation

Hello everyone! This is for anyone in my situation, solidarity! 

I just did my CFAT earlier this week on March 16th 2015 and passed. While the Master Corporal was going over my results and whether I qualified for the trade I was pursuing, I was informed that my background checks of all sorts will begin. I asked the Master Corporal from his experience, roughly how long it will take and he told me that the longest was 18 months. I'm being realistic on myself and looking at 18 months, perhaps even longer. My situation is that in the past four years (from November 2010 to September 2014), I was working abroad in Hong Kong and China at a job that required me to travel back and forth between Hong Kong and China quite a lot. While working abroad in Hong Kong and China during those four years, I traveled a lot throughout Asia and Europe as well. Furthermore, I was already doing a lot of traveling prior to my working abroad in Hong Kong and China from 2010 to 2014. On the Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionaire, the section it asks you to list all the places you have traveled to outside of Canada in the past ten years, I had fill out on this separate form https://docs.google.com/document/d/12bYEI-YaHEPs6YYiNL9JJ92rGZrMx1LeAmsIiKg6QdY/editand all my travels outside of Canada was TWO PAGES FULL! When I finally do get the okay that all my background checks are done, I'll find this post and update again, that way it will give anyone a suggestion on the average. Good luck to everyone who already are or will be in the process!


----------



## SoldierInAYear

I called my CFRC today for an update and was told my application is being put through a quality check. 

So I was wondering, what does a quality check involve? Should I expect to wait a long time? If it helps, i'm applying for ResF ACISS.


----------



## The_Falcon

Paul_Ontario said:
			
		

> I called my CFRC today for an update and was told my application is being put through a quality check.
> 
> So I was wondering, what does a quality check involve? Should I expect to wait a long time? If it helps, i'm applying for ResF ACISS.



Likely that its in in a pile of files to review and ensure everything that needs to be completed has in fact been completed prior to merit listing.


----------



## SoldierInAYear

Awesome. Thanks for the response!


----------



## llin_X

Hi everybody )

Is there a reason why security check and references check are done before medical and interview? I see that in majority of cases it's the opposite - references are called last.


----------



## PuckChaser

llin_X said:
			
		

> Hi everybody )
> 
> Is there a reason why security check and references check are done before medical and interview? I see that in majority of cases it's the opposite - references are called last.



You've already been told. You're an immigrant to Canada, and have not lived here for the last 10 years. Therefore, you need a presecurity screening, which will be completed before they process your file further. It would be a waste of time and money to complete your medical and interview before knowing the results of your security clearance screening.


----------



## llin_X

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You've already been told. You're an immigrant to Canada, and have not lived here for the last 10 years. Therefore, you need a presecurity screening, which will be completed before they process your file further. It would be a waste of time and money to complete your medical and interview before knowing the results of your security clearance screening.


Okay, okay, thanks) I did not know that references are part of presec, I thought they were called before you get the job.


----------



## canucksnation

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You've already been told. You're an immigrant to Canada, and have not lived here for the last 10 years. Therefore, you need a presecurity screening, which will be completed before they process your file further. It would be a waste of time and money to complete your medical and interview before knowing the results of your security clearance screening.



Relating to this scenario for llin_X, I' am a Canadian citizen (born in Canada), but I've not lived in Canada continuously for the past ten years. However, I written my CFAT last week (passed) and done the Physical Fitness Test few months ago. I was told my interview and medical will be scheduled soon (it was not scheduled after completing the CFAT because regular force applicants having priority right now), so that does that mean my security screening has already been completed? Cheers


----------



## DAA

canucksnation said:
			
		

> Relating to this scenario for llin_X, I' am a Canadian citizen (born in Canada), but I've not lived in Canada continuously for the past ten years. However, I written my CFAT last week (passed) and done the Physical Fitness Test few months ago. I was told my interview and medical will be scheduled soon (it was not scheduled after completing the CFAT because regular force applicants having priority right now), so that does that mean my security screening has already been completed? Cheers



Every applicant to the CF is subject to the "Pre-Sec Questionnaire".  Depending on how you answer those questions, that information "may" be forwarded to Ottawa for review, who in turn will decide whether or not a full-blown "Pre-Security Assessment" is required.

Generally speaking, nobody will advance to the Medical/Interview stage until the pre-sec has been addressed.


----------



## canucksnation

Also, another matter that just got dropped on me this morning. 

In Summer 2012, I was involved in a vehicle accident in which I was at fault (I accidentally rear ended the vehicle in front of me). Now fast forward to today, the driver of that vehicle in front of me has decided to sue me because he/she is not appeased with the settlement by ICBC (my insurance company and the accident occur in Vancouver and my vehicle/driver license is registered in BC). I been advised by my vehicle insurance company that ICBC is obligated to represent and settle this matter for me. Me and ICBC are trying to get the other driver to settle, but reckon the other driver is trying to take me and ICBC to the cleaners. If this was to go to court, a date is set for in 2017. So with all that being said, I'm currently in the Canadian Forces application process, so how screwed am I on getting rejected by the Canadian Forces? And what are my %/odds? Keep in mind, Iam represented by a crown auto insurance company that's going to represent and settle for me whatever the costs maybe all the way? Much thanks!


----------



## DAA

canucksnation said:
			
		

> Also, another matter that just got dropped on me this morning.
> 
> In Summer 2012, I was involved in a vehicle accident in which I was at fault (I accidentally rear ended the vehicle in front of me). Now fast forward to today, the driver of that vehicle in front of me has decided to sue me because he/she is not appeased with the settlement by ICBC (my insurance company and the accident occur in Vancouver and my vehicle/driver license is registered in BC). I been advised by my vehicle insurance company that ICBC is obligated to represent and settle this matter for me. Me and ICBC are trying to get the other driver to settle, but reckon the other driver is trying to take me and ICBC to the cleaners. If this was to go to court, a date is set for in 2017. So with all that being said, I'm currently in the Canadian Forces application process, so how screwed am I on getting rejected by the Canadian Forces? And what are my %/odds? Keep in mind, Iam represented by a crown auto insurance company that's going to represent and settle for me whatever the costs maybe all the way? Much thanks!



Don't worry about it, as something like this, should not be considered to be a "judicial" obligation.


----------



## canucksnation

DAA said:
			
		

> Every applicant to the CF is subject to the "Pre-Sec Questionnaire".  Depending on how you answer those questions, that information "may" be forwarded to Ottawa for review, who in turn will decide whether or not a full-blown "Pre-Security Assessment" is required.
> 
> Generally speaking, nobody will advance to the Medical/Interview stage until the pre-sec has been addressed.



UPDATE. So as it turns out, I am getting the 'full blown' Pre-Security Assessment. For anyone who had this conducted on their application, how long did it take for the Pre-Security Assessment to be completed?


----------



## George Wallace

canucksnation said:
			
		

> ......... how long did it take for the Pre-Security Assessment to be completed?




Please read: TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________

Then perhaps: The Security Check/ Level Superthread- Check Here First from the very beginning.


----------



## canucksnation

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Please read: TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________
> 
> Then perhaps: The Security Check/ Level Superthread- Check Here First from the very beginning.



Uh yeah, I read those. I was hoping to get response from recent applicants that experienced or in similar situation as me right now. Merci!


----------



## DAA

canucksnation said:
			
		

> UPDATE. So as it turns out, I am getting the 'full blown' Pre-Security Assessment. For anyone who had this conducted on their application, how long did it take for the Pre-Security Assessment to be completed?



It all depends on the countries which are involved.  Turn around times range anywhere from 4-24 months and in some cases, never.


----------



## George Wallace

canucksnation said:
			
		

> Uh yeah, I read those. I was hoping to get response from recent applicants that experienced or in similar situation as me right now. Merci!



 :

You are not someone special.  You are just another person, one of the many, who may be applying to join the CAF.  

Once again, it is reiterated:





			
				DAA said:
			
		

> It all depends on the countries which are involved.  Turn around times range anywhere from 4-24 months and in some cases, never.


----------



## q_1966

I`m filling out the DND Personal Data Verification and in the section previous employer; One of my previous employers is the Canadian Forces, if my bosses were either promoted or posted somewhere else or retired whom would I fill in for the contact information. Also my last unit was a ship and is being decommissioned this year. *Trying to be proactive as I haven`t been contacted by the recruiting centre yet after filling out my online application.


----------



## q_1966

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> I`m filling out the DND Personal Data Verification and in the section previous employer; One of my previous employers is the Canadian Forces, if my bosses were either promoted or posted somewhere else or retired whom would I fill in for the contact information. Also my last unit was a ship and is being decommissioned this year. *Trying to be proactive as I haven`t been contacted by the recruiting centre yet after filling out my online application.


Edit for clarity: The ships phone number or the phone number of the person who was my boss at the time.


----------



## Master Corporal Steven

Good day,

Include all of the information that you know when filling out the forms. Make your best effort in obtaining the information required and if unable to locate the information you can fill out a Statutory Declaration stating so and the background check can still be conducted based on the information provided.


----------



## q_1966

Thank-you MCpl.


----------



## tealite

In March 2014, I applied to the Forces, wrote the test in June and was eventually called in for my interview and medical examination in December. 
The interview went well and the recruiter suggested that I should be called in to start in February. The following week, I was contacted by e-mail regarding my security screening as my address during time of unemployment was the same as the one of my previous contract. I provide details more details of where I travelled within the province until I had started a new contract. 

7 months later, I still have not received any new about the processing of my application. During that period, I worked a few months at an airport and had my security clearance screening completed by Transport Canada. A staffing/temp agency submitted a screening PWGSC at the Reliability level, and two months on, I still don't have any news.

As time goes by, I have been considering returning to school or starting a business. I couldn't make it a friend's wedding in Spain, as I didn't want to jeopardize my security profile by travelling. I feel paralyzed. 

How long am I expected wait for security screening?


----------



## RedcapCrusader

I was on EMAA a couple weeks ago and I was checking my Readiness Level and to my surprise it states that my Security Clearance is only Enhanced Reliability. However, by Trade I require a Level II clearance just to continue my sad existence. According to my Sergeant-Major _they_ won't process the Sec Clearance unless being tasked/deployed/sent on course that requires the clearance - BUT they won't even take your name for the task/deployment/course unless you have the clearance.  ???

How can I action a Level II clearance so that it can at the very least be in processing so that by the time the CAF decides I'm important and can be trusted to do cool stuff; I will hopefully have the appropriate clearance?

(and 1 MP is gearing up for R2HR so, I'd like to be as prepared as possible)

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm a Reservist.


----------



## George Wallace

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I was on EMAA a couple weeks ago and I was checking my Readiness Level and to my surprise it states that my Security Clearance is only Enhanced Reliability. However, by Trade I require a Level II clearance just to continue my sad existence. According to my Sergeant-Major _they_ won't process the Sec Clearance unless being tasked/deployed/sent on course that requires the clearance - BUT they won't even take your name for the task/deployment/course unless you have the clearance.  ???
> 
> How can I action a Level II clearance so that it can at the very least be in processing so that by the time the CAF decides I'm important and can be trusted to do cool stuff; I will hopefully have the appropriate clearance?
> 
> (and 1 MP is gearing up for R2HR so, I'd like to be as prepared as possible)
> 
> Edit: Just to be clear, I'm a Reservist.



You can have your SSM refresh him/herself on CTAT and what Clearances are now necessary to handle, instruct on and operate secure equipment like radios, or many of our vehicles and weapons systems.....or even read the Pams.  Lvl II has more or less become the "minimum Clearance" required to be a member of the CAF, even if you are a Reservist.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You can have your SSM refresh him/herself on CTAT and what Clearances are now necessary to handle, instruct on and operate secure equipment like radios, or many of our vehicles and weapons systems.....or even read the Pams.  Lvl II has more or less become the "minimum Clearance" required to be a member of the CAF, even if you are a Reservist.



The issue is not with my SM, he's the one having issues getting our Level II into processing. Whomever is the receiving body to conduct clearances won't entertain applications from our platoon because we're reservists and they'll only do it.... as I explained above. It's frustrating. Much like annual Med/Dent, we can't get one done unless it is for promotion/tasking/deployment; but when we are being promoted/tasked/deployed we get turned down because we don't have our Med/Dent done.


----------



## George Wallace

The workload on DPM Secur 2 (or whatever they are called now -- PSSD (?)) has drastically been lowered since Afghanistan.  A Lvl II is a fairly simple Clearance that does not reach anywhere near the extent that CSIS is involved as with a Lvl III.  I still suspect it is someone at your end of your processing, likely within your unit, that is dropping the ball; perhaps your USS or A/USS.


----------



## ShawnCameron

My references have been contacted . Does this mean that my background/security check has been completed or is it a two part process? Thanks


----------



## Master Corporal Steven

Good day ShawnCameron,

Welcome to the “Ask a CAF Recruiter” section. The members tagged as “CAF Recruiter” are official Canadian Armed Forces recruiters. They will identify themselves with their rank, first name and the Forces.ca avatar. In order to best answer questions, there are some rules that need to be adhered to.

This section is for persons who have questions about joining the Canadian Armed Forces, occupations, different enrolment programs, and prerequisites. Much of the information can be found at Forces.ca, or the Recruiting FAQ and wiki section of this site. Before you ask a question, you should be searching the forum or the Forces.ca website for these answers.

*We will not answer questions about technical difficulties with the application process, or the website. We will not answer questions about difficulties contacting your recruiting centre or general inquires with regards to your current application or file.* These questions can be asked here: http://forces.ca/en/page/contactus-73

ShawnCameron I recommend that you maintain contact with the recruiting centre processing your application in accordance with the "Submitted application whats next?" post. I have provided a link to this post below:  

http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/118929.0.html


----------



## ShawnCameron

Thank you kindly


----------



## DAA

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I still suspect it is someone at your end of your processing, likely within your unit, that is dropping the ball; perhaps your USS or A/USS.



That would be my guess as well.


----------



## Boschmaniac

Hey,

Just a check question as to what level they would check a NCM reservist under?

-Reliablility Status
-Level 1 (confidential)
-Level 2 (secret)
-Level 3 (top secret)

Thanks.


----------



## dapaterson

Depends on the occupation of the individual.  Technicians generally need Level 2 (Secret); some other trades may require Level 3 (Top Secret), for example, Comm Research or Int Op.


----------



## Boschmaniac

Should have specified, Armoured Recce. Would that still be Level 2?


----------



## Tibbson

I believe the standard is level 1 for all trades unless higher is required such as Int and others that have been noted.  Armoured would fall into the Level 1 catagory I'd think.  Its expensive and time consuming to do higher levels when they are not required.


----------



## George Wallace

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> I believe the standard is level 1 for all trades unless higher is required such as Int and others that have been noted.  Armoured would fall into the Level 1 catagory I'd think.  Its expensive and time consuming to do higher levels when they are not required.



Lvl II is what would be required by all CAF members if one was to follow the CTAT policies to the T.


----------



## inquistive

Hello posters and lurkers alike, and thanks in advance for any responses.

To cut it short, I am seriously considering applying to become an officer (active or reserve, have yet to decide). However, I answer yes to all the following:
a)have dual citizenship 
---yes, german and canadian. I am somewhat reluctant to give up my german citizenship if it came down to this.
b) if you lived, worked, studied or travelled outside of Canada in the last 10 years for a total of at least 180 days 
--- yes, I was born in Singapore and lived there until I was 19. I have travelled quite extensively on vacation to both developed and undeveloped countries. I have since been studying at University of Toronto for the past 3 years. If I enlist into the military I will have been in Canada for 5-6 years.
c) if you have a child, parent, step-parent, spouse, in-laws, brother or sister (half & step) living outside of Canada
--- yes, both my parents live in Singapore still. My father has basically not been living in Canada since he graduated from university. They own a small professional business in Singapore and also own apartments the UK and the US. 

If a Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, it can take between 6 to 18 months to complete.

My questions are
1) I am definitely going to be having to do a Clearance Pre-Assessment eh?
2) Will my history prevent me from becoming an officer?
3) What exactly goes into a Clearance Pre-Assessment? 6 to 18 months seems pretty extensive.  
4) Should I refrain from travelling to weird or 'potentially hostile' locations? (e.g. I was thinking about taking a month long trip to Russia and also doing a similar trips to South America or Israel a year or so before enlisting)

Additional reasons for why I think I could ( + ) or could not ( - ) pass this Assessment:
+my whole extended family on my father's side continues in Canada and has done so for several generations. Our family moved here between WWI and WWII and my father is the only one of his siblings (and person in our family I know of) to leave so far. My father's side is ethnically Japanese yet we are completely whitewash (none of us speak Japanese, just my grandma)
+my grandfather (now deceased) served in the Canadian Reserves as an officer, reaching the rank of honorary colonel upon retirement. He was a former commanding officer of the 23rd (Hamilton) Service Battalion.
+ By the time I do apply, it is very likely that my parents will own property in Canada. 
- my travel history that may look pretty darn suspicious. The most suspicious would be a lot of visits to Thailand (on summer internships and volunteer teaching) and a visit to China. 

Thank you for any advice or opinions regarding this matter,


----------



## inquistive

thanks and apologies, i should i have tried the search function before posting.


----------



## DAA

inquistive said:
			
		

> My questions are
> 1) I am definitely going to be having to do a Clearance Pre-Assessment eh?



NO, it's never a definite and you will never know until the Pre-Assessment has been reviewed and a decision has been made.


----------



## Anira09

Hello
I'm having my interview 15 Sept at 10:00 and my medical at 13:00. The background check is done after my interview or its already done???
I had recive a email, before getting the call for the 15th, from the minister of defence saying that all was good and that should get a call soon from my recruter. Whats that about??? The background check???  
Thanks


----------



## chipinator

After my interview I was told there are still several checks that need to be done, including calling references...since then it's been a month and a half, which seems to be the norm for a lot of other people as far as I can tell...you might be in for a wait after your appointment, but they'll let you know then.


----------



## Anira09

Thank you!!!


----------



## SupersonicMax

Mr Jason Kenney sent you an email personally?  You must be important!


----------



## BinRat55

Lol!! I saw that too, thought - "Wow, and all I get are these Defence Update emails..."

Maybe my background check needs to be redone?

Haha... lay-people!


----------



## George Wallace

Don't sweat it.  When you get out after twenty/twenty-five plus years, you will get a nice certificate from him/her.  If you are really lucky it will be framed, but there are no guarantees that there will be money in the Budget for that.


----------



## Anira09

:facepalm: :facepalm: 
Sorry, bad spelling.


----------



## Anira09

Whats the next Bmq dates???


----------



## DAA

Anira09 said:
			
		

> Hello
> I'm having my interview 15 Sept at 10:00 and my medical at 13:00. The background check is done after my interview or its already done???
> I had recive a email, before getting the call for the 15th, from the minister of defence saying that all was good and that should get a call soon from my recruter. Whats that about??? The background check???
> Thanks



Are you applying for Regular Force or Reserve Force?


----------



## Anira09

Regular.


----------



## DAA

Anira09 said:
			
		

> Regular.



If that's the case, then your background checks are not normally started until after your Medical has been approved and then file has been returned to your CFRC.


----------



## BlueAngels14

Is work history done along with background check after my medical ? I am suppose to redo my interview and medical because I had to re-apply to a V4 trade. However, I found out that the CF contacted one of my previous work places just to confirm whether I used to work there.


----------



## DAA

BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> Is work history done along with background check after my medical ? I am suppose to redo my interview and medical because I had to re-apply to a V4 trade. However, I found out that the CF contacted one of my previous work places just to confirm whether I used to work there.



Yes, employment history is part of the background check.  So if your references are indicating that they are or have been contacted, then chances are your checks have already started.


----------



## Anira09

Hello
Just today i received a call for one of my references. They contacted her for employments references. So that means that my credit have been or wil be check?????


----------



## SupersonicMax

I am not too sure why you want to know when your references will be called or your credit will be checked, but at this point, there isn't much you can do to expedite the process.  I suggest you sit back, call bi-weekly for updates at the recruiting center and let the process work for you.


----------



## Anira09

Im just surprise that my interview and medical its not yet done ( 15 sept ) and they already contact my references.... 
But like you said, i will sit back and smell the roses


----------



## BlueAngels14

Thanks for the answer DAA. Yea as Anira09 mentioned I'm just curious as well because I've yet to redo my interview and medical. I guess it's good though since something is getting done contributing to the application process.


----------



## need2know

So June 27th, I and my friend did aptitude test and was told i passed for the trades that i chose in my application, after a month he was called down for medical test, and after waiting almost 3 months, they called me for a Pre-Security Interview, like I don't understand because I thought the second step after aptitude is doing medical test, but they called me for Pre-Security instead, so I am just confused I don't know my spot on the chart, am I gonna be called for medical later? or what? If its a stupid question, sorry for it.

Oh and I am from Afghanistan, maybe that's why I guess? I am just scared if its a normal step or a problem in my application.


----------



## mariomike

watchdogsrox said:
			
		

> Pre-Security Interview, like I don't understand because I thought the second step after aptitude is doing medical test, but they called me for Pre-Security instead, so I am just confused I don't know my spot on the chart, am I gonna be called for medical later? or what? If its a stupid question, sorry for it.



This may help,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+pre+security&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HM38VbO9MozH2AHEx5OgDw&gws_rd=ssl


----------



## need2know

Thank you


----------



## Loachman

And merged - thanks again, mariomike.


----------



## tealite

As time went on, I still had not received any news from the recruitment centre. I decided that I should call and ask what was the status of my file. I was told that I had to sign to update some documents as they have expired. However, no start date could be predicted. 

In other words, I am still waiting. I feel as though I have wasted the 10 months, as I was told that I should be starting training in February. In order not to hinder my professional reputation, I was frank with prospective employers that I was pending on security clearance from the Armed Forces. It would be unfair to be trained or integrated into a work environment and then leave for something else.
Unfortunately, that has resulted in me being unable to secure meaningful employment - now being unemployed from my field for so long, I have been told by recruiters that I should consider returning to school to be of any relevance to the workforce. Most volunteer opportunities would require a 6 month commitment, as some training is required, so I was unable to get involved in my local community.

Had I known it would have taken this long, I would have signed up for courses at the community college to learn new skills or not have been so forthcoming with employers about my ambitions. 

Periodic updates about an applicant's file and recommended courses during the wait period would have been greatly appreciated.



			
				tealite said:
			
		

> In March 2014, I applied to the Forces, wrote the test in June and was eventually called in for my interview and medical examination in December.
> The interview went well and the recruiter suggested that I should be called in to start in February. The following week, I was contacted by e-mail regarding my security screening as my address during time of unemployment was the same as the one of my previous contract. I provide details more details of where I travelled within the province until I had started a new contract.
> 
> 7 months later, I still have not received any new about the processing of my application. During that period, I worked a few months at an airport and had my security clearance screening completed by Transport Canada. A staffing/temp agency submitted a screening PWGSC at the Reliability level, and two months on, I still don't have any news.
> 
> As time goes by, I have been considering returning to school or starting a business. I couldn't make it a friend's wedding in Spain, as I didn't want to jeopardize my security profile by travelling. I feel paralyzed.
> 
> How long am I expected wait for security screening?


----------



## CB0982

Due to the nature of my dad's job, I've lived abroad most of my life. I'm currently a highschool student at an international school in Europe aplying to Canadian universitys. I consider myself Canadian. I'm a Canadian citizen, as are both my parents. I was born in Canada and lived in sask for several years. So my question is this, if I get a degree from a Canadian university, will have problems gaining a commission based on the fact that I've spend most of my life overseas? I also have duel Canadian/Italian citizenship so will I have to renounce my EU passport? Any help would be awesome, 
thanks


----------



## djangovi

I am Canadian/Italian too, i am in process to join canadian forces. Surely, i can tell that you don't have to renounce your EU citizenship ...
During your likely recruiting process, they will ask you to provide informations about where you have been living the last 10 years.


----------



## gcclarke

You do not need to renounce any other citizenship. The primary impact this will have is an increase in the time it takes to conduct your background check / security assessment. Assuming said check comes back clean, it shouldn't have an impact upon your likelihood of getting in, just the timeline. You should expect your application to take several months longer than it would otherwise.


----------



## mariomike

CB0982 said:
			
		

> I also have duel Canadian/Italian citizenship so will I have to renounce my EU passport?



This may help,

From "Ask a CAF Recruiter",
Dual Citizen
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119559.0

Dual citizens in the CF  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/118207.0

Security Check/Level Superthread (incl dual citizenship)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12875.575


----------



## raoufhakam

not to sound pessimistic, but consider yourself for a lengthy application process due to indepth security check if: 1/you have dual citizenship, 2/haven't lived continuously in Canada for the past 10 years, 3/have direct relatives living abroad.

i'm in the same case, i applied in January 2014 and still waiting for security background check  :nod:


----------



## opcougar

OK...your situation is not unique, and it's even more simpler than say the reverse where someone wasn't born in Canada. Yes your dad and the rest of your family might have lived abroad, it won't severely affect your processing as long as you and your family do your due diligence and get a police report from that country before you leave.

I wasn't born here, but also lived in many places including NZ and Aus over the years. Along with my Canadian citizenship, I also hold 3 other passports, 5 if you cound the Govt Green one. So as you can see I am like James Bond really 

The applications that take forever are for people that lived in countries where records aren't kept / corruption exists / doubtful. My application processing took max 5 months because I did most of the leg work prior, and all the recruitment had to do was followup with phonce calls / fax to the places I lived in for more than 6 months. My top secret took 1 week, with my SA taking slightly longer.

So while having lived abroad can cause delay in processing your application, it helps if you have done some of the work yourself as opposed to expecting someone else to do it for you.



			
				CB0982 said:
			
		

> Due to the nature of my dad's job, I've lived abroad most of my life. I'm currently a highschool student at an international school in Europe aplying to Canadian universitys. I consider myself Canadian. I'm a Canadian citizen, as are both my parents. I was born in Canada and lived in sask for several years. So my question is this, if I get a degree from a Canadian university, will have problems gaining a commission based on the fact that I've spend most of my life overseas? I also have duel Canadian/Italian citizenship so will I have to renounce my EU passport? Any help would be awesome,
> thanks


----------



## DarkPheonix

Good Day,

While browsing the forums I came across the topic of Security clearance for a CELE officer. I read that A CELE officer would need level 3 security clearance and if you've lived abroad than it would take from 1.5 - 3 years. I also read that if the applicant was moving with their parents (my case) their clearance wouldn't take as long.

I lived Abroad for a total of 11-12 years, would I need to provide additional documents?

I plan to apply for the ROTP program during the summer of 2016, and wanted to start at RMCC in 2017. I've read a whole bunch of other forums and all my questions have been answered I just wanted to make sure the information is up to date.

Thank You,


----------



## PuckChaser

Another post, that's answered here and didn't need another thread. You've also lived abroad for a majority of your life thus far, expect a long security screening process.


----------



## DarkPheonix

I read in a forum if you were with your parents (It didn't specify if it was age level but I assume it is if you were under 18) it wouldn't take as long, was that information wrong?


----------



## PuckChaser

It's going to take longer than someone who lived in Canada.


----------



## DarkPheonix

Do you have an estimate on that cause on the forums I read it varied from 1.5 to 3 years would that be the case for me as well?

Also since I would be applying for ROTP I would have the rank of an Officer cadet, which I assume would require a lower level o security clearance. So would I have to wait for a Level 3 clearance or could I start attending RMCC with a lower level of clearance?


----------



## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Another post, that's answered here and didn't need another thread. You've also lived abroad for a majority of your life thus far, expect a long security screening process.



An EXCELLENT POINT and TOPIC LOCKED!


----------



## Joshua_Cail1705

Hello All 

I have recently joined the Army Reserve and have my fitness test soon but that is not what i am most worried about. What i am most worried about is the fact that i am learning Russian and have a friend who lives in Moscow and so she helps me with my Russian. I've known her for 3 years now. Will this affect my application in any way especially with what is going on in the world today between NATO and Russia? 

Thank you for taking time out of your day to read this 

Joshua


----------



## Leeworthy

No. Learning a second language will not affect you getting into the cf. It's beterment on your part.


----------



## Afm

The applications that take forever are for people that lived in countries where records aren't kept / corruption exists / doubtful. My application processing took max 5 months because I did most of the leg work prior, and all the recruitment had to do was followup with phonce calls / fax to the places I lived in for more than 6 months. My top secret took 1 week, with my SA taking slightly longer.

[/quote]

Opcougar, what do you mean by doing the groundwork by yourself? Can you please explain?


----------



## fruitflavor

Has anyone gone though enhanced reliability twice? I understand that it's part of process and that one of my parent is out of country and I was in US for studies for a bit (left 2013 and in canada ever since) but nothing's changed since then other than moving across the country. 
Do they check everything all over again or pick up from where it was left off? Also anyone know why I need to get FBI history check again since I have no new history there since 2013? (need to follow the rules to play but wait time is 3-4 months) 
let the waiting game begin. (hoping to get in by sept now)


----------



## BlueAngels14

The recruitment centre had emailed me a few days ago to inform me that they had re-opened my file and asked me to update a personnel screening form. I followed the instructions, filled, checked, and signed the form and returned it. I just realized now that there's a box on the form that asks if I have completed such a form before. Not remembering that I had filled out one before in the initial CF application I accidentally selected no. However, it also says "If yes, give name of employer, level and year of screening". I have filled out one before but I have no idea what the level of screening was. At the same time the File Manager has not contacted me with any problems after I've emailed back the form, just wondering if I need to correct that incorrectly checked box?


----------



## canucksnation

canucksnation said:
			
		

> Hello everyone! This is for anyone in my situation, solidarity!
> 
> I just did my CFAT earlier this week on March 16th 2015 and passed. While the Master Corporal was going over my results and whether I qualified for the trade I was pursuing, I was informed that my background checks of all sorts will begin. I asked the Master Corporal from his experience, roughly how long it will take and he told me that the longest was 18 months. I'm being realistic on myself and looking at 18 months, perhaps even longer. My situation is that in the past four years (from November 2010 to September 2014), I was working abroad in Hong Kong and China at a job that required me to travel back and forth between Hong Kong and China quite a lot. While working abroad in Hong Kong and China during those four years, I traveled a lot throughout Asia and Europe as well. Furthermore, I was already doing a lot of traveling prior to my working abroad in Hong Kong and China from 2010 to 2014. On the Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionaire, the section it asks you to list all the places you have traveled to outside of Canada in the past ten years, I had fill out on this separate form https://docs.google.com/document/d/12bYEI-YaHEPs6YYiNL9JJ92rGZrMx1LeAmsIiKg6QdY/editand all my travels outside of Canada was TWO PAGES FULL! When I finally do get the okay that all my background checks are done, I'll find this post and update again, that way it will give anyone a suggestion on the average. Good luck to everyone who already are or will be in the process!





			
				canucksnation said:
			
		

> UPDATE. So as it turns out, I am getting the 'full blown' Pre-Security Assessment. For anyone who had this conducted on their application, how long did it take for the Pre-Security Assessment to be completed?



Update: Back in late September, I was contacted by my recruiter that my application file was closed as I needed to provide criminal record checks from Hong Kong and China (places that I've previously lived in within the last five years). Getting the criminal record check from Hong Kong was easy. The criminal record check from China? Not so much. Had to fly all the way to China just to get my criminal record check. Submitted my criminal record checks two weeks ago and my application file was reopened earlier this week (had to redo a lot of the forms as it had expired). After a year of no activity since writing the CFAT, I'm booked for my medical and interview next month. When the Master Corporal told me in his experience, the longest was 18 months for an applicant to go through the whole process, I might just beat that record!


One year later and even more eager than ever to join!


----------



## Drew Grey

Just completing my DND personal data verification form and had a question regarding the employment history section. It states that "*You can advise us not to conduct a check of your employment background only if it pertains to your current employer(s) *

Im in a situation where I kinda don't want my current employer to know Im applying for the Forces. Not because I don't want my current employer called by the Forces or anything...I am totally confident I'd be spoken of positively by my current employer. Its a personal issue that I don't want to discuss on a public forum so we'll leave it at that.

Anyways..that being said am I able to advise the Forces not to do conduct a check on my employment background with my current employer for that reason?


----------



## Loachman

The first five threads have now been merged into this one.

Drew Grey - Does the form limit you to specific reasons only, or even request reasons?


----------



## mariomike

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Just completing my DND personal data verification form



For reference, 

DND Personal Data Verification
http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/PersonalDataVerification.pdf


----------



## BinRat55

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Just completing my DND personal data verification form and had a question regarding the employment history section. It states that "*You can advise us not to conduct a check of your employment background only if it pertains to your current employer(s) *
> 
> Im in a situation where I kinda don't want my current employer to know Im applying for the Forces. Not because I don't want my current employer called by the Forces or anything...I am totally confident I'd be spoken of positively by my current employer. Its a personal issue that I don't want to discuss on a public forum so we'll leave it at that.
> 
> Anyways..that being said am I able to advise the Forces not to do conduct a check on my employment background with my current employer for that reason?



Well, considering there is actually a question "If current employer, may we contact?" Yes   No   Not Applicable

I would check "No" and move on...


----------



## DAA

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Just completing my DND personal data verification form and had a question regarding the employment history section. It states that "*You can advise us not to conduct a check of your employment background only if it pertains to your current employer(s) *
> 
> Im in a situation where I kinda don't want my current employer to know Im applying for the Forces. Not because I don't want my current employer called by the Forces or anything...I am totally confident I'd be spoken of positively by my current employer. Its a personal issue that I don't want to discuss on a public forum so we'll leave it at that.
> 
> Anyways..that being said am I able to advise the Forces not to do conduct a check on my employment background with my current employer for that reason?



Take a closer look at your PDV Form, specifically the very first page where you will see......

"For your employment history, all your previous employer(s) will be contacted; you can advise us not to conduct a check of your employment background only if it is pertains to your current employer(s)."


----------



## Infantryeric

Hello! I am new here in the forums and would like to say thank everyone for this awesome experience. Into my question now.
I joined the Canadian Military under the reserve co-op program they had at my school in the year of 2014. my teacher had printed me out all the sign up sheets that I needed and I signed up right away and went into the recruiting center to hand in all my signup sheets on my 18th birthday, in September. I did my physical later that month around the 25th and I passed. They schedules my CFAT (Canadian forces aptitude test) in November of that year. I completed my CFAT and they scheduled my Medical for January of 2015 . a couple days before I was supposed to go to my medical and interview I got a call saying my application had been closed due to a failed security check and that I would be able to rejoin in January 2016, next year. Basically I was on bail for some youth charges when I joined. Now im an adult and dont have any charges. What would I need to do to rejoin? would I fail the security check again? I also want to go regular force instead of reserve, would that take them any extra time to switch? Would I have to get my mugshots erased? I'm also involved in a civil case right now that may or not may reach the courts. would that have any effect on my signing up?


----------



## mariomike

Infantryeric said:
			
		

> I got a call saying my application had been closed due to a failed security check





			
				Infantryeric said:
			
		

> would I fail the security check again?



Security Check/Level Superthread (incl dual citizenship) - Check Here First  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12875.575
24 pages.



			
				Infantryeric said:
			
		

> I also want to go regular force instead of reserve, would that take them any extra time to switch?



reserves to reg force application 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/117443.0
"I have recently applied to the Reserves and completed my fitness test Dec 11. However, I would like to change my application to that of the Regular Forces"



			
				Infantryeric said:
			
		

> Would I have to get my mugshots erased?



Criminal Record (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12896.275
12 pages.



			
				Infantryeric said:
			
		

> I'm also involved in a civil case right now that may or not may reach the courts. would that have any effect on my signing up?



Must be free of any Legal Obligations (fines, probations, etc).
http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Enrolment_Requirements


----------



## Infantryeric

Thank you for the information. I read the forum post about the "criminal record" link you posted. I got charged when I was a youth so everything was under the youth justice act. So currently my adult record is clean as a whistle. I still have those mugshots from when I was a kid though.


----------



## mariomike

Infantryeric said:
			
		

> Thank you for the information.



You are welcome. Good luck.  

See also,

Need Information Regarding my Youth Record
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109731.0

Fingerprints/youth criminal record  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/116440.0

Young Offender  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13382.0;nowap

Sealed record
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca++youth+record&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=-fwhV6OLFcSC8QfA-IrADQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca++sealed+record&start=0

Young offenders act?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/17680.0/nowap.html
2 pages.

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.

For reference, perhaps "Flagged during security check for the Canadian Military" will be merged with "Security Check/Level Superthread (incl dual citizenship) - Check Here First"
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12875.575


----------



## Dockrill923

From what I recall from my process by the time you get to the interview it is best to have all legal matters settled (including parking fines). any pending issues that could pull you away from your duties pose an issue. Just my two bits based on my interview


----------



## DAA

If you have any obligations to the "judicial" system, also known as "Judicial Obligations", this will prevent your application from being processed until those obligations no longer exist.

If you have met those obligations and it's been less than 1-year since your original application, you should be able to just visit your local CFRC and ask to have your application re-opened.  If it has been more than 1-year, you will need to reapply online.

Nevertheless, I'd suggest you visit or make contact with your local CFRC and ask about re-opening your file.


----------



## Infantryeric

Thanks you for the information DAA, very helpful. I also wanted to know if being flagged once "it was longer then a year ago from my application" will have any repercussions when I sign up again. By the looks of it I will have to completely redo my application process. Will it take extra longer because I was turned down once? Plus I already had my service number.


----------



## Preet3203

Hi, I am an applicant to the Pres and I need to undergo PRESEC clearance because I lived in the USA for 10 years (at the same address). I was wondering the length presec would take for an applicant living in the US. Also if it would help should I print out a criminal record check from the Washington State Patrol? (I have criminal record) Thanks.


----------



## Preet3203

My bad I meant no criminal record


----------



## mariomike

Preet3203 said:
			
		

> I was wondering the length presec would take for an applicant living in the US.



"If a Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, it can take between 6 to 18 months to complete."
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100

PRESEC
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca++presec&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=g3wlV4XAK6mC8QewzY5w&gws_rd=ssl



			
				Preet3203 said:
			
		

> I lived in the USA for 10 years





			
				Preet3203 said:
			
		

> applicant living in the US.



You did,_ or you do_,  live outside Canada?


----------



## canucksnation

Preet3203 said:
			
		

> Hi, I am an applicant to the Pres and I need to undergo PRESEC clearance because I lived in the USA for 10 years (at the same address). I was wondering the length presec would take for an applicant living in the US. Also if it would help should I print out a criminal record check from the Washington State Patrol? (I have criminal record) Thanks.



If you haven't done it yet, go get your criminal record check from the FBI. More than likely, you are going to be requested for and submit your American criminal record check.


----------



## Wally88

Hello, I want to apply for an engineer position in the army. I am a Canadian but working in the US for the past 15 years via the NAFTA permit.  I cross the Canada-US border every year to get a new working permit. I have been living in the US for so long, I don't know if I can get the Reliability Status as required.  Any idea?


----------



## mariomike

Wally88 said:
			
		

> I have been living in the US for so long, I don't know if I can get the Reliability Status as required. Any idea?



Security Check/Level Superthread (incl dual citizenship) - Check Here First  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12875.0
25 pages.

See also,

Security Clearance - ERC - Enhanced Reliability Check 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/1399.0
9 pages.

Reliability Screening  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110542.0

People with experiance with reliability status please read
http://army.ca/forums/threads/104559.0

Reliability Status Declined... Advice please  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/104795.0

etc...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## DAA

Wally88 said:
			
		

> Hello, I want to apply for an engineer position in the army. I am a Canadian but working in the US for the past 15 years via the NAFTA permit.  I cross the Canada-US border every year to get a new working permit. I have been living in the US for so long, I don't know if I can get the Reliability Status as required.  Any idea?



See the information provided under Step 6  --->  http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#tab7

You may very well be required to submit the Pre-Assessment Questionnaire and this will determine whether or not you will be subject to the full-blown Pre-Assessment Screening which can take anywhere from 6-18 months.


----------



## airlog

I applied for Reg service about 9 weeks ago and successfully did the CFAT test.  I qualified under the trade I wanted.  CFRC has not contacted me yet so I called last week and they said my file is pending due to the security screening process not being finalized.  I'm a PMQ brat just got back from OUTCAN posting with my father who just retired from the Air Force upon our return from overseas.  Now according to the Forces website (enrolment steps), I should have been given an interview or a medical BEFORE my file progresses for security verifications, yet the CFRC says they cannot proceed further with my file until the security screening comes back as valid. I check on this forum and most people that applied got their medical / interview a few days after doing their CFAT..Has anyone else been thru the same hoops?  Thanks  Ottawa CFRC


----------



## mariomike

airlog said:
			
		

> CFRC has not contacted me yet so I called last week and they said my file is pending due to the security screening process not being finalized.





			
				airlog said:
			
		

> the CFRC says they cannot proceed further with my file until the security screening comes back as valid.



For reference, perhaps,

Recruiting Process

will be merged with the Sticky,

Security Check/Level Superthread (incl dual citizenship) - Check Here First  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/1399.175
34 pages.

See also,

Forces.ca

Reliability Screening 
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#tab7
"If a Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, it can take between 6 to 18 months to complete." 

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## DYMO

airlog,

I passed the interview and medical only after my security check was completed.  It took a while to get it processed because of backlogs.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.

DYMO.


----------



## DYMO

I should add that I also lived abroad and was processed through the Ottawa center.

From what I understand it can take longer to process someone who has lived abroad.  Just keep checking on the status of your file every couple of weeks.


----------



## airlog

Thanks DYMO  I guess I need to be patient  [


----------



## DAA

airlog said:
			
		

> I applied for Reg service about 9 weeks ago and successfully did the CFAT test.  I qualified under the trade I wanted.  CFRC has not contacted me yet so I called last week and they said my file is pending due to the security screening process not being finalized.  I'm a PMQ brat just got back from OUTCAN posting with my father who just retired from the Air Force upon our return from overseas.  Now according to the Forces website (enrolment steps), I should have been given an interview or a medical BEFORE my file progresses for security verifications, yet the CFRC says they cannot proceed further with my file until the security screening comes back as valid. I check on this forum and most people that applied got their medical / interview a few days after doing their CFAT..Has anyone else been thru the same hoops?  Thanks  Ottawa CFRC



After completing your CFAT and if you were asked to complete the "Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire", then this will be the next step in your processing.  Your application cannot go any further until it has been determined whether or not a full-blown "Pre-Security Screening Assessment" will be required.

See the website regarding this portion of the process, where it starts with "If you have ever lived outside Canada....." (3rd para from the bottom.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#tab7


----------



## airlog

DAA

My recruiter sent a request to waive the security checks while we were overseas (I'm assuming because of the directive below in bold), but I didn't hear anything as of yet.  I mean we were all given A-2 Semi-diplomatic passports while we were there and the security screening were done by the proper channels..

Anyhow I'm hoping it's not going to take 2 years, my brother wants to join once he graduates high school in 2017 and he will be in the same predicament.      

Here is the info:

Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Check (Pre-Sec) - Will be conducted in the following cases:

a. An applicant has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately
prior to application. *Applicants who were accompanying their parents while they were
employed outside Canada are not to be considered in this category*.


----------



## Jeremy971

OK, are there more experiences ? how long does it last to verify our background ? Have something changed since 2012 ? I'm from France.


----------



## George Wallace

Jeremy971 said:
			
		

> OK, are there more experiences ? how long does it last to verify our background ? Have something changed since 2012 ? I'm from France.



Have you read and understood this thread:  TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________ ?


So you are from France.  And?  Has  Have the various French government agencies and been cooperative with any inquiries that may have arisen from your application?  Have your "References" been contacted and cooperative with any inquiries related to your application?   Do you know?  We don't.  We can't give you a precise timing.


----------



## Jeremy971

Yeah, I did. 
And I thought it may have a police information agreement between France and Canada. There is something like that between European Union countries. But I got it. I just need to wait and be patient.


----------



## DAA

airlog said:
			
		

> DAA
> My recruiter sent a request to waive the security checks while we were overseas (I'm assuming because of the directive below in bold), but I didn't hear anything as of yet.  I mean we were all given A-2 Semi-diplomatic passports while we were there and the security screening were done by the proper channels..
> Anyhow I'm hoping it's not going to take 2 years, my brother wants to join once he graduates high school in 2017 and he will be in the same predicament.
> Here is the info:
> Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Check (Pre-Sec) - Will be conducted in the following cases:
> a. An applicant has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately
> prior to application. *Applicants who were accompanying their parents while they were
> employed outside Canada are not to be considered in this category*.



Awesome and about time they implemented something like this!!!!!  If the requirement for a Pre-Sec is waived, then you will be subject to the standard Background Checks.  How this will impact on things, I have no idea as they really won't be able to verify much of your background (ie; time spent OUTCAN as a dependant) if any, so it's a coin toss how this portion of the process will be managed.

Out of curiousity, did they accept your academic transcripts from your schooling overseas?


----------



## airlog

DAA

I did Cite Collegiale online while in korea, so no overseas school transcript.


----------



## sumokobonsai

Hello i am a Canadian Citizen from birth but also have USA citizenship. i started the process in sept 2014 for AV tech and ATIS and got everything done very quickly, but waited 8 months for RCMP background check and came back clean. after completion they call me to review everything and put me on the merited list, during that little interview because i lived in the USA most of the last 10 years the officer selected me for a long form PRESEC. it is now months and months that i have been waiting, the only answered the recruiting office is telling me is CSiS are in process. I called CSIS customer service and asked how long it usually take for a person with my kind of back ground. She answered me "they can do it in a matters a days if it is urgent." and she also told me to contact the person who is in charge of my file and only him\her can ask to be process faster. by the way in the beginning i provided the recruiting office with a FBI check (it took less than 2 weeks for the FBI to complete) my question is for a person who only lived in the USA and Canada and never went to an unfriendly country. how long can it take to get the PRESEC done? anyone coming from USA and have the same problem as me? and is it true the recruiting center officer can get my PRESEC faster if he wants to.


----------



## George Wallace

sumokobonsai said:
			
		

> Hello i am a Canadian Citizen from birth but also have USA citizenship. i started the process in sept 2014 for AV tech and ATIS and got everything done very quickly, but waited 8 months for RCMP background check and came back clean. after completion they call me to review everything and put me on the merited list, during that little interview because i lived in the USA most of the last 10 years the officer selected me for a long form PRESEC. it is now months and months that i have been waiting, the only answered the recruiting office is telling me is CSiS are in process. I called CSIS customer service and asked how long it usually take for a person with my kind of back ground. She answered me "they can do it in a matters a days if it is urgent." and she also told me to contact the person who is in charge of my file and only him\her can ask to be process faster. by the way in the beginning i provided the recruiting office with a FBI check (it took less than 2 weeks for the FBI to complete) my question is for a person who only lived in the USA and Canada and never went to an unfriendly country. how long can it take to get the PRESEC done? anyone coming from USA and have the same problem as me? and is it true the recruiting center officer can get my PRESEC faster if he wants to.



VERY HARD TO READ!

Welcome to army.ca

We encourage members, who have agreed to the terms of this site, to follow those terms.  

READ what is posted and you will find the answers to your questions, and questions you have yet to think of.  

By the way, have you read and understood this thread:  TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________ ?


----------



## sumokobonsai

Hello i am a Canadian Citizen from birth but also have USA citizenship. i started the process in sept 2014 for AV tech and ATIS and got everything done very quickly, but waited 8 months for RCMP background check and came back clean. after completion they call me to review everything and put me on the merited list, during that little interview because i lived in the USA most of the last 10 years the officer selected me for a long form PRESEC. it is now months and months that i have been waiting, the only answered the recruiting office is telling me is CSiS are in process. I called CSIS customer service and asked how long it usually take for a person with my kind of back ground. She answered me "they can do it in a matters a days if it is urgent." and she also told me to contact the person who is in charge of my file and only him\her can ask to be process faster. by the way in the beginning i provided the recruiting office with a FBI check (it took less than 2 weeks for the FBI to complete) my question is for a person who only lived in the USA and Canada and never went to an unfriendly country. how long can it take to get the PRESEC done? anyone coming from USA and have the same problem as me? and is it true the recruiting center officer can get my PRESEC faster if he wants to.


----------



## mariomike

sumokobonsai said:
			
		

> Hello i am a Canadian Citizen from birth but also have USA citizenship. i started the process in sept 2014 for AV tech and ATIS and got everything done very quickly, but waited 8 months for RCMP background check and came back clean. after completion they call me to review everything and put me on the merited list, during that little interview because i lived in the USA most of the last 10 years the officer selected me for a long form PRESEC. it is now months and months that i have been waiting, the only answered the recruiting office is telling me is CSiS are in process. I called CSIS customer service and asked how long it usually take for a person with my kind of back ground. She answered me "they can do it in a matters a days if it is urgent." and she also told me to contact the person who is in charge of my file and only him\her can ask to be process faster. by the way in the beginning i provided the recruiting office with a FBI check (it took less than 2 weeks for the FBI to complete) my question is for a person who only lived in the USA and Canada and never went to an unfriendly country. how long can it take to get the PRESEC done? anyone coming from USA and have the same problem as me? and is it true the recruiting center officer can get my PRESEC faster if he wants to.



See also,

Security Check/Level Superthread (incl dual citizenship) - Check Here First  


			
				sumokobonsai said:
			
		

> Hello i am a Canadian Citizen from birth but also have USA citizenship. i started the process in sept 2014 for AV tech and ATIS and got everything done very quickly, but waited 8 months for RCMP background check and came back clean. after completion they call me to review everything and put me on the merited list, during that little interview because i lived in the USA most of the last 10 years the officer selected me for a long form PRESEC. it is now months and months that i have been waiting, the only answered the recruiting office is telling me is CSiS are in process. I called CSIS customer service and asked how long it usually take for a person with my kind of back ground. She answered me "they can do it in a matters a days if it is urgent." and she also told me to contact the person who is in charge of my file and only him\her can ask to be process faster. by the way in the beginning i provided the recruiting office with a FBI check (it took less than 2 weeks for the FBI to complete) my question is for a person who only lived in the USA and Canada and never went to an unfriendly country. how long can it take to get the PRESEC done? anyone coming from USA and have the same problem as me? and is it true the recruiting center officer can get my PRESEC faster if he wants to.


http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/1399/post-1455154.html#msg1455154


----------



## sumokobonsai

hello Sir good day to you! I did read to post you just sent me and also read the 35 pages before this one …. none of them answer my 3 questions. i have dual citizenship USA and Canada never have been to unfriendly country. 
 1) how long for a PRESEC coming from USA (supposedly a friendly country)?
2) anyone with the same background as mine willing to share there story (someone coming from USA only)?
3)is it true the recruiting officer can send a paper to CSIS to get my PRESEC completed faster?
thank you


----------



## George Wallace

sumokobonsai said:
			
		

> hello Sir good day to you! I did read to post you just sent me and also read the 35 pages before this one …. none of them answer my 3 questions. i have dual citizenship USA and Canada never have been to unfriendly country.
> 
> 1) how long for a PRESEC coming from USA (supposedly a friendly country)?



You claim to have read the post; so you should have clued in to what was said: "NO ONE can give you a definite timeline as to how long it will take.  YOU are an INDIVIDUAL, and as such, not the same as any other INDIVIDUAL.  



			
				sumokobonsai said:
			
		

> 2) anyone with the same background as mine willing to share there story (someone coming from USA only)?



You claim to have read these pages, and within them are several instances of INDIVIDUALS who are DUAL CITIZENS.  If you go back to your question 1, you will once again see that each has taken different amounts of time to get their documents in order and processed.  Extrapolate from there. 



			
				sumokobonsai said:
			
		

> 3)is it true the recruiting officer can send a paper to CSIS to get my PRESEC completed faster?



You are no more SPECIAL than any other prospect.  The bureaucracy will grind on at its own pace and the CF Recruiter will have no power over how fast an outside agency works.


[Edit to fix coding for quotes.]


----------



## sumokobonsai

yes sir, i do claimed i read those 35 pages of that post because i surely did. i do have a clue that no one can give me a specific time on how long it will take , but i surly am sure someone can tell me that they were coming fro USA with similar facts and would love to share with me there story and how long it took them (1-2-3-4 months). 

On that post, many people speak of dual citizenship from china, japan, russia but no one claim they came from USA and has sheared the story behind it and how long it took them. by the way, i never claim i was special and will never do so.

with all due respect sir, i am looking for info, I'm not looking  for someone who insult every one he can, because he is in charge of a post.

 and about the CSIS woman  telling me the person in charge of my file can ask to get my PRESEC done faster. like many of them do and did when some of there men get ready to be ship overseas or for some government job that as to be filed, those people had received clearance within days. whats wrong with my questions? you don't like them? i have been more then polite, i am just looking for some light on what is happening with my case.

i don't want to be rude Sir, but we are coming here to have some help or ask questions that can make us feel better and get constructive answers. we are not coming here to ask questions and get answers that make us feel stupid because we asked. 

so beside to do the police on what we should have read or how we should to things and especially telling us how special we think we are, why don't you try to be a gentleman, teach and help people understand what is going on and be constructive about the subjects.  good night sir, thanks for your help!


----------



## sumokobonsai

ANYWONE EVER SEEN THIS FORM BEFORE?
[/quote]


----------



## Kv-super

Hello everyone, 

I wrote back a while ago about my application process and now my recruiter has finally contacted me back saying they ate awaiting my back round check. It has been almost a year and I have spoke to countless people in the military and they all agree that this is taking way too long, especially for the reserves, I'm a little irrirated and running out of hope, being in the military is life long dream so is their any way I can speed things up with the process, I'm pretty sure a back round check doesn't take a year.


----------



## DAA

Kv-super said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I wrote back a while ago about my application process and now my recruiter has finally contacted me back saying they ate awaiting my back round check. It has been almost a year and I have spoke to countless people in the military and they all agree that this is taking way too long, especially for the reserves, I'm a little irrirated and running out of hope, being in the military is life long dream so is their any way I can speed things up with the process, I'm pretty sure a back round check doesn't take a year.



No, a background check doesn't normally take a year.  But if you were subject to a "Pre-Security Clearance Screening", then depending on the countries which are involved, the process can take from 6-18 months and sometimes longer.


----------



## mariomike

See also,

OP: Kv-super 

Losing moral  



			
				Kv-super said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> It's been around a year since I applied to the reserves for infantry in the lorne scots regiment, I have completed all testing and handed in all medical forms, my recruiter finally contacted me back and informed me that I have to still pass my back round check after a year! I'm 18 I have no credit, no criminal offences, I haven't even been suspended from school, I don't understand what's taking so long because most people i have talked to in the military have said it's ridiculous that this is taking so long because I am reserves. If anyone can shine the light for me I'd be so happy because I am very fusturated at this point I just want to be merit listed and get the ball rolling.





			
				Sergeant Laen said:
			
		

> Good Day,
> 
> I wanted to clarify one point for you, being that you are joining a Reserve Unit you will not be merit listed.  The "Merit List" exists solely for Regular Force applicants.
> 
> Recruiting for Reserve Units rests solely with each individual Reserve Unit.
> When someone applies to join a Reserve Unit online, the application is sent directly to that Reserve Unit. When they give the "green light" to the supporting Recruiting Centre that there is an opening within their unit and that they'd like to enroll you is when processing occurs.  The Recruiting Centre will do your Aptitude Test, Interview, Medical and Background check.  Although you're 18 you will still need to undergo a background check, this is a requirement for everyone joining the Forces.  While you state that you have no credit, no criminal offences - that is not the case for every 18 year old who applies.
> 
> Looking at your posts, you stated on 20 February that you had just applied to the Lorne Scots.  While I can understand that even at 7 months you're feeling disheartened, you are not at the year mark.  I know I've posted on here explaining that during the summer most Reserve Recruiting is on hold, this is because of Reserve Unit Staff are away for the summer instructing.  Very little occurs between beginning June to end August because of this.
> 
> When you look at the time of when you applied and take out the time your file was on "hold" due to Reserve Summer Training your file has been in process for approximately 4 months.  Most Reserve Units have now commenced their Fall Training and the Reserve Recruiter should be back at the unit (assuming they're not taking leave after working all summer), you should follow up with your Reserve Unit Recruiter.  Being that the Lorne Scots fall under 32 Canadian Brigade Group, if you want to send me a private message with your name, DOB and email address I can get in touch with one of the Brigade Recruiters and ask them to follow up with you.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Sgt Laen


----------



## mariomike

For reference,

From Ask a CAF Recruiter,



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> As a dual "national", there is no requirement for you to revoke foreign citizenship.  It is entirely possible that as a result of dual nationality, you will need to complete the Pre-Enrolment Secur Clr Pre-Assessment Questionnaire and after review, you may be subject to the "Pre-Security Clearance" processing requirements,


----------



## Tony35mk

Hey everyone..so 2 months ago i wrote my cfat,i was told i qualified for my choice(infantry reg) and my background check started.My issue is that i was born in Greece and pretty much lived my whole life there.I've moved to Canada a couple of months ago.My parents live in Greece i have duel-citizenship, and also because of my previous army service(in greece mandatory service) its gonna take awhile.Can i help the cfrc somehow to speed up the process.I have also provide the recruiting center with my military discharge paper..just to speed up the process.

Thank you in advance...


----------



## raoufhakam

Tony35mk said:
			
		

> Hey everyone..so 2 months ago i wrote my cfat,i was told i qualified for my choice(infantry reg) and my background check started.My issue is that i was born in Greece and pretty much lived my whole life there.I've moved to Canada a couple of months ago.My parents live in Greece i have duel-citizenship, and also because of my previous army service(in greece mandatory service) its gonna take awhile.Can i help the cfrc somehow to speed up the process.I have also provide the recruiting center with my military discharge paper..just to speed up the process.
> 
> Thank you in advance...



my application situation was somewhat close to yours:
1/ i have Dual-Citizenship.
2/ i haven't lived in Canada continuously for the 10 years prior to my application.
3/ i had a direct family member (my oldest brother) living abroad.

and according to the CF guidelines, each and any one of these "Foreign Implications" require you to undergo further Security Clearance Pre-Assessment and fill up some extra forms. and this can delay your application a little further depending on the countries involved and how many of them. (in your case Greece).

In my case, it was 2 foreign countries (Egypt & Kuwait), so that took a little longer, but i kept checking with the recruiting centre every month or so, and i was asked once to provide a criminal record check from the country i lived in before moving to Canada cause i was above 18.

as for your previous military service, i don't think that can be a "bad point" against you, if anything, you have some knowledge of military discipline, drill, commands and such. and unless you served in a armed forces of a country that's deemed an enemy to Canada (like North Korea, Iraq, Iran, ...etc.)., on of the guys in my BMQ had served in military in Serbia or Croatia.

AFAIK, Greece is a NATO ally, your military service there, or you having lived there shouldn't hinder your application as much as in my case.

FYI, my whole application process from submitting the online application to getting enrolled took me almost 3 years (2 years and 10 months), but i doubt yours should take that long and i've heard they've changed a lot of things in the application processing steps to expedite things.


----------



## BCstangWA

Anybody Know what some security check or clearance to Ottawa is for the application process after the CFAT or Before?

Would help me out alot if someone knew.

Thanks   :warstory:


----------



## brihard

BCstangWA said:
			
		

> Anybody Know what some security check or clearance to Ottawa is for the application process after the CFAT or Before?
> 
> Would help me out alot if someone knew.
> 
> Thanks   :warstory:



It would help us if you would try to use your words. It's pretty much impossible to determine what you're actually asking here.


----------



## deskjockey43

Also, you should not be posting the same question more than once. That does not mean go post the same thing in another topic under a different title. You have done this a couple times already. Maybe you should go back and re-read the rules you agreed to when you signed up for this site. The mods are going to get very unhappy with you if you continue this double posting. Use the search button!


----------



## Loachman

BCstangWA said:
			
		

> Anybody Know what some security check or clearance to Ottawa is for the application process after the CFAT or Before?



This thread was already a big, honking thirty-five-page monstrosity before I merged yours into it. How could you miss something that huge? And it's even stickied, as well.

Read older threads, _especially_ the stickied ones - they are stickied for good reasons. Learn to search.


----------



## FinnO25

On the application it says they won't contact your current employer if you so wish... I am just wondering if that is actually true or if they just contact them anyway?


----------



## Kat Stevens

Do you think it's some kind of a trap or something? Questions and check boxes are there for a reason, and it's not to trip you up.


----------



## FinnO25

I don't think it is a trap, but my current employer is not exactly thrilled that I am looking for another job, i have already gotten heat from them about it. So much so that I would not use them as a reference. So my apologies for asking a normal question on a public domain..


----------



## kratz

Knowing that you have search Goggle: "site:army.ca contact employer" and read the 6 threads that address the question, I'm confident there is a suitable answer.


----------



## FinnO25

Ok Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> On the application it says they won't contact your current employer if you so wish... I am just wondering if that is actually true or if they just contact them anyway?



Question regarding DND Personal Data Verification 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/97476/post-1431064.html#msg1431064


			
				Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Im in a situation where I kinda don't want my current employer to know Im applying for the Forces.



Forces.ca
DND Personal Data Verification
http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/PersonalDataVerification.pdf
"You can advise us not to conduct a check of your employment background only if it pertains to
your current employer(s)."


----------



## Kat Stevens

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> I don't think it is a trap, but my current employer is not exactly thrilled that I am looking for another job, i have already gotten heat from them about it. So much so that I would not use them as a reference. So my apologies for asking a normal question on a public domain..



I wasn't trying to climb up on you, it was a simple question. They wouldn't put the contact current employer box on the form if they were just going to circumvent your wishes and do it anyway.


----------



## FinnO25

What happens if a former employer gives you a bad reference? will your application be denied?


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> What happens if a former employer gives you a bad reference? will your application be denied?



Bad reference
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22bad+reference%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=uRoaWeyNFoON8QeI_YDICw&gws_rd=ssl

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

They don't contact them, they actually call you if you don't put anything there to confirm if you want them to contact them or not. As this would get some people in hot water if their current employers knew they were attempting to leave their current company, they don't call if you don't want them to.


----------



## mariomike

From a CAF Recruiter,

DND Personal Data Verification



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> Take a closer look at your PDV Form, specifically the very first page where you will see......
> 
> "For your employment history, all your previous employer(s) will be contacted; you can advise us not to conduct a check of your employment background only if it is pertains to your current employer(s)."


----------



## FinnO25

What do i do if a former employer rejects to give me a proof of employment?


----------



## George Wallace

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> What do i do if a former employer rejects to give me a proof of employment?



You have Pay Slips and Income Tax forms...Right?


----------



## FinnO25

I have online t4 slips and stuff. My RC said they need a government official T4.


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> My RC said they need a government official T4.



https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/tax-slips/a-copy-your-tax-slips.html


----------



## FinnO25

All is fixed. My career counsellor was given the wrong information back from the 3rd party.  [ Thanks for the help anyway! 
Cheers Guys!


----------



## Kevin32

Hello army.ca,
I've recently applied to the armed forces. I'm lead to believe, having lived in Norway for many years, they'll want a background and credit check from Norway. 
I've heard a foreign background check can extend the time it takes to process my application by up to 9 months!

Could contacting the norwegian authorities and requesting they send over said background information speed up my application process? Any other information? 

Thanks, Kevin.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

Kevin32 said:
			
		

> Could contacting the norwegian authorities and requesting they send over said background information speed up my application process?



Why dont you call them and ask? Start there.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Kevin32 said:
			
		

> Hello army.ca,
> I've recently applied to the armed forces. I'm lead to believe, having lived in Norway for many years, they'll want a background and credit check from Norway.
> I've heard a foreign background check can extend the time it takes to process my application by up to 9 months!
> 
> Could contacting the norwegian authorities and requesting they send over said background information speed up my application process? Any other information?
> 
> Thanks, Kevin.



Hi Kevin, welcome to Army.ca.

While I don't feel the Norwegian authorities will have a lot of knowledge/feedback on what will or won't speed up your application process for the Canadian Armed Forces, you'd be better off posing that question to your CFRC. We do have some members of the site working/who have worked in Recruiting, but they can be occupied at times and aren't able to respond to all inquiries quickly.

You are correct in that a background check will be required and it _will_ extend your processing time. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot that can be done about that, other than being patient and productive in the mean time. 

Please explore the recruiting threads in which you'll find a lot of additional information to answer most of the questions you'll have as your process moves forward. However, please note that due to the dynamic of this site there are specific types of questions that only your CFRC/file manager will be able to answer for you.


----------



## mariomike

Kevin32 said:
			
		

> Could contacting the norwegian authorities and requesting they send over said background information speed up my application process?



Background Check (Merged) 
Reply #50 


			
				Kv-super said:
			
		

> is their any way I can speed things up with the process,



See also,

Speed up Background Check
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&q=site%3Aarmy.ca++%22speed+up%22+%22background+check%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca++%22speed+up%22+%22background+check%22&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.62743.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525...0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.z_HlMvM8ZFs

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of up to date information.


----------



## FinnO25

Hey guys so I know this thread has been dead for a while, but I had a question pertaining to this forms relevance. I have been fired from a job before. And was told by the employer not to put them on a resume or contact sheet, I suppose this is a little more in depth so I am supposed to put them down correct?


----------



## dapaterson

Yes.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Yes Finn025.

It is even more than "a little more" in depth.

Your employment history (just as your residency history) in the Security clearance form is exactly that: a history. There must be absolutely no gaps in it, regardless of the circumstances. Your ex-employers are not used as "references", they may be interviewed by security personnel for info relating to you as a security risk, not employment risk.

You will have to go through this process many times over your career in the CAF, should you be accepted, or if no offer is forth coming at this stage but you re-apply later in life. So here is a little trick: Take the time to completely and properly fill the form and then, always keep a copy of your latest one so that, any time you need to re-fill one, you have a starting point from which all you have to do is add the latest info.

Good luck.


----------



## FinnO25

Good to know! Thanks very much, I am actually heading off to BMQ in November so hopefully all goes well!


----------



## HarryKytle

Hello,

I lived in the USA for a time as an adult.
I am told I need to get an FBI clearance check
Can anyone be specific about what exactly I need to provide?

I was told "tell the FBI you need it to get into Canadian Armed Forces" but I don't think this will work.


----------



## sidemount

HarryKytle said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I lived in the USA for a time as an adult.
> I am told I need to get an FBI clearance check
> Can anyone be specific about what exactly I need to provide?
> 
> I was told "tell the FBI you need it to get into Canadian Armed Forces" but I don't think this will work.


That doesn't sound right.


Was it a recruting center that told you that you needed to provide this?

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## da1root

HarryKytle said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I lived in the USA for a time as an adult.
> I am told I need to get an FBI clearance check
> Can anyone be specific about what exactly I need to provide?
> 
> I was told "tell the FBI you need it to get into Canadian Armed Forces" but I don't think this will work.



I haven't heard of that before; but with that said if you're being asked to provide more information you should reach out to your recruiting centre to find out what more they want not a Recruiting Forum.  Each background check is specific to the individual; in your case you could have time in the USA within the time period that they're looking at and Mintz may not be able to find information as such is requesting a USA background check.  You should really reach out to your CFRC to find out what they're asking for specifically and why.


----------



## fruitflavor

HarryKytle said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I lived in the USA for a time as an adult.
> I am told I need to get an FBI clearance check
> Can anyone be specific about what exactly I need to provide?
> 
> I was told "tell the FBI you need it to get into Canadian Armed Forces" but I don't think this will work.



it's this https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks
I have had it done. 
and it does actually take 3 months.


----------



## Danny78

Hi, I don't know if anyone here can help but I'm looking for an email address.  I'm close to graduating ROTP and was told if i don't want my promotion held up to make sure my security clearance has been properly initiated.  I've contacted my ULO and they sent me a screenshot showing the process initiated in St Jean 2 years ago, but can't confirm its complete.  And in fact said if its not, it may need to be restarted but that I would have to contact the correct person in St Jean to confirm.  She was unable to give me the email though and instead referred me to someone else who I've gotten no response from.

SO! Long story short, can anyone PM an email to someone in St Jean that can tell me whether or not all is good? 

Thank you!


----------



## Lumber

Danny78 said:
			
		

> Hi, I don't know if anyone here can help but I'm looking for an email address.  I'm close to graduating ROTP and was told if i don't want my promotion held up to make sure my security clearance has been properly initiated.  I've contacted my ULO and they sent me a screenshot showing the process initiated in St Jean 2 years ago, but can't confirm its complete.  And in fact said if its not, it may need to be restarted but that I would have to contact the correct person in St Jean to confirm.  She was unable to give me the email though and instead referred me to someone else who I've gotten no response from.
> 
> SO! Long story short, can anyone PM an email to someone in St Jean that can tell me whether or not all is good?
> 
> Thank you!



Security Clearance is not a pre-requisite for promotion. Your ULO is lying to you to try and light a fire under your ass. Was the application submitted? Is it in the works in Ottawa, or did it never even leave some Unit Security Supervisor's office?


----------



## ballz

Lumber said:
			
		

> Security Clearance is not a pre-requisite for promotion. *Your ULO is lying to you to try and light a fire under your ****. Was the application submitted? Is it in the works in Ottawa, or did it never even leave some Unit Security Supervisor's office?



That's a bit of a leap... it looks more like their ULO might be incompetent but there is very little info available.



			
				Danny78 said:
			
		

> Hi, I don't know if anyone here can help but I'm looking for an email address.  I'm close to graduating ROTP and was told if i don't want my promotion held up to make sure my security clearance has been properly initiated.  I've contacted my ULO and they sent me a screenshot showing the process initiated in St Jean 2 years ago, but can't confirm its complete.  And in fact said if its not, it may need to be restarted but that I would have to contact the correct person in St Jean to confirm.  She was unable to give me the email though and instead referred me to someone else who I've gotten no response from.
> 
> SO! Long story short, can anyone PM an email to someone in St Jean that can tell me whether or not all is good?
> 
> Thank you!



*You* shouldn't be randomly calling up / emailing anyone in St. Jean. I'm going to send you a PM with some advice.


----------



## Danny78

ballz said:
			
		

> That's a bit of a leap... it looks more like their ULO might be incompetent but there is very little info available.
> 
> *You* shouldn't be randomly calling up / emailing anyone in St. Jean. I'm going to send you a PM with some advice.



Much appreciated! Thank you.


----------



## Lumber

ballz said:
			
		

> That's a bit of a leap... it looks more like their ULO might be incompetent but there is very little info available.
> 
> *You* shouldn't be randomly calling up / emailing anyone in St. Jean. I'm going to send you a PM with some advice.



I retract my baseless accusation. You're right; it's probably _just _incompetence.


----------



## AliTheAce

I'm planning on applying to the Canadian Forces soon, although I am waiting for my citizenship.

I was born in Dubai, but they do not give out citizenships unless you are at least a second generation native. However, I do hold a Pakistani citizenship and passport, and that is my nationality on my Birth Certificate. I lived in Dubai since I was born, in 2000, to August 23rd, 2013

How will this affect my processing times?


----------



## Jayjaycf

The first thing you need is a Canadian citizenship so unless you have one then you would have to wait until then. Then I guess you are in for a quite lenghty reference/background check, you can read up on other thread about the topic of background check for people who lived abroad and maybe check the recruiting of permanent residents as I guess this is your legal status until you get your citizenship. Good luck with your application sir.


----------



## sidemount

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> I'm planning on applying to the Canadian Forces soon, although I am waiting for my citizenship.
> 
> I was born in Dubai, but they do not give out citizenships unless you are at least a second generation native. However, I do hold a Pakistani citizenship and passport, and that is my nationality on my Birth Certificate. I lived in Dubai since I was born, in 2000, to August 23rd, 2013
> 
> How will this affect my processing times?


In all honesty it will likely increase your wait time. There likely will be additional background security checks done. This is common for people who have lived outside of Canada. 
Try not to be discouraged but it does take a long time. Contact a recruiter and they can give you more info.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## mariomike

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> I was born in Dubai, but they do not give out citizenships unless you are at least a second generation native. However, I do hold a Pakistani citizenship and passport, and that is my nationality on my Birth Certificate. I lived in Dubai since I was born, in 2000, to August 23rd, 2013
> 
> How will this affect my processing times?



There is no indication of processing time on the official site,
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/apply-now/application-process.html
5. Reliability screening

See also,

Security Check/Level Superthread [MERGED] 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/1399.875
36 pages.



			
				Jayjaycf said:
			
		

> check the recruiting of permanent residents as I guess this is your legal status until you get your citizenship.



Recruiting Permanent Residents  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13555.225.html
10 pages.

From a CAF Recruiter,


			
				DAA said:
			
		

> You can't apply to the CF unless you are a Canadian Citizen.
> 
> There are exceptions made from time to time, but these are very rare and require extensive prior military service/training as mentioned above.



As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## hcahopeful

Hi everyone,

I completed my interview today and was told that because I lived in Germany for part of my university education I need to get a background check completed by Germany. I knew that this would be required seeing as I was there for over the 6 month period. However, I was under the impression that the CAF would be completing the check. 

I was told that I am responsible for getting the check done myself, and that the Canadian name for the form is a Criminal Records Name Check, but my interviewer didn't know if the name would be the same in Germany. They were also unable to tell me how to start the process of obtaining this documentation. 

I'm a little lost, I have researched for a few hours and can't find anything. Any input on where to start, and if the information I was given is correct, would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Harrison_

hcahopeful said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I completed my interview today and was told that because I lived in Germany for part of my university education I need to get a background check completed by Germany. I knew that this would be required seeing as I was there for over the 6 month period. However, I was under the impression that the CAF would be completing the check.
> 
> I was told that I am responsible for getting the check done myself, and that the Canadian name for the form is a Criminal Records Name Check, but my interviewer didn't know if the name would be the same in Germany. They were also unable to tell me how to start the process of obtaining this documentation.
> 
> I'm a little lost, I have researched for a few hours and can't find anything. Any input on where to start, and if the information I was given is correct, would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!



Hello hcahopeful,

What you'll need is known in Germany as a Certificate of Conduct (Führungszeugnis). Applying for one is a relatively straightforward, quick procedure, even from within Canada. From the gov.ca website, here's an overview of the application process: 
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/medical-police/police-certificates/how/germany.html
Next, from the German Ministry of Justice, here's the website where you'll find the forms and the means to pay online:
https://www.bundesjustizamt.de/DE/Themen/Buergerdienste/BZR/Inland/FAQ_node.html

You'll need to print off the form, have it notarized (bring some ID) and then mailed to the address listed in Bonn. Your finished certificate can't be mailed to a third-party, so you'll need to have it sent to your address and then you can drop it off at your recruiting centre.  If you have no record, it'll only be one word (in German), so hopefully they won't make you have it officially translated (my recruiting centre had a German speaker who did mine for me in-house). Best to clarify with your file manager while you're waiting about what they will do with the certificate once they have it (these documents expire within six months), as they originally thought I needed mine to be notarized, which means finding a German-speaking notary or taking it to the German embassy. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Armstrong

Hello, 

I applied to armoured recon reserve in Vancouver on June 2017, everything I passed and or cleared expect the enhanced reliability status is still pending (7 months so far) I used to be ex CAF member back from 2011-2015 and did a Volunteer Release for 2-3 years. Now that I'm ready to go back in, Im just curious what the enhanced reliability check consist of. I know it has to do with 
A) Credit Check 
B) Criminal Check (does this include only criminal record check or as well as any police reports by me and against me and traffic tickets which have been paid and a couple waiting to go to court to fight against. Also does being sued by someone in small claims for a private sale regarding a car part while effect my ability to get a ERS again?

What company does the Security clearance / enhanced reliability check
and how and from who do they get the information. 
what would be some reasons a ERS would be denied. 

The only thing thats left is my ERS I had it once before but a lot has happen since I got out, lots of jobs, lots of visits to the USA, lots of traffic tickets, and some minor legal actions against me but no criminal record or anything serious. 

I have great credit and no criminal record. what else do they check for besides the basics. 

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

Armstrong said:
			
		

> A) Credit Check



Credit Check Superthread
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13319.0



			
				Armstrong said:
			
		

> B) Criminal Check



Criminal Records Check - CRC (Merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12896.0



			
				Armstrong said:
			
		

> Im just curious what the enhanced reliability check consist of.



Enhanced Reliabilty  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/124560.0

enhanced reliability check..does it take 4 monthes or 6??? 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/86408.0

See also,

Enhanced Reliability
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22enhanced+reliability%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=I2dCWvvHA-ufXrGHl_gL&gws_rd=ssl


As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Armstrong

So just a criminal record check and a credit check is done to receive an ERS


----------



## BC Old Guy

Armstrong said:
			
		

> So just a criminal record check and a credit check is done to receive an ERS



There is also a reference check made - and typically would include verification of employment as well as an interview with your references.

BCOG


----------



## Armstrong

I think the recruiter does the employment and reference checks now at the reserve unit .


----------



## mariomike

Armstrong said:
			
		

> HAS ANYONE HERE BEEN DIENED, REJECTED, PLACED ON HOLD OR BEEN INTERVIEWED OR ANYTHING ELSE REGARDING THE ENHANCED RELIABILITY STATUS SECURITY CLEARANCE.
> IF SO WHAT WERE THE REASONS?
> 
> THANKS



See also,



			
				Armstrong said:
			
		

> I applied to armoured recon reserve in Vancouver on June 2017, everything I passed and or cleared expect the enhanced reliability status is still pending (7 months so far) I used to be ex CAF member back from 2011-2015 and did a Volunteer Release for 2-3 years. Now that I'm ready to go back in, Im just curious what the enhanced reliability check consist of. I know it has to do with
> A) Credit Check
> B) Criminal Check (does this include only criminal record check or as well as any police reports by me and against me and traffic tickets which have been paid and a couple waiting to go to court to fight against. Also does being sued by someone in small claims for a private sale regarding a car part while effect my ability to get a ERS again?
> 
> What company does the Security clearance / enhanced reliability check
> and how and from who do they get the information.
> what would be some reasons a ERS would be denied.
> 
> The only thing thats left is my ERS I had it once before but a lot has happen since I got out, lots of jobs, lots of visits to the USA, lots of traffic tickets, and some minor legal actions against me but no criminal record or anything serious.
> 
> I have great credit and no criminal record. what else do they check for besides the basics.


----------



## Armstrong

how does that answer my question


----------



## mariomike

Armstrong said:
			
		

> how does that answer my question



Not intended as an answer. Added for reference only to your question.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Armstrong said:
			
		

> ...OR ANYTHING ELSE REGARDING THE ENHANCED RELIABILITY STATUS SECURITY CLEARANCE...



Seems to fit in this category as a minimum.


----------



## Armstrong

im just confused why a basic ERS would take so far 7 months for a ex member, when everything is in order and nothing has changed. 
anyone know why they the private company doing the Security clearance checks like to take their sweet ass time. 
is it done by order or priority 

thanks


----------



## Franko

Armstrong said:
			
		

> im just confused why a basic ERS would take so far 7 months for a ex member, when everything is in order and nothing has changed.
> anyone know why they the private company doing the Security clearance checks like to take their sweet ass time.
> is it done by order or priority
> 
> thanks



You said it yourself, you have minor legal stuff ongoing etc etc. That would probably hold it up. Another thing is you aren't the only applicant trying to get in right now.

Another thing that may hold up your application is the manner in which you left the CAF. 

Stay in touch with your recruiter and in the meantime, sort out your legal stuff, tickets etc. 

Regards


----------



## Armstrong

the legal things are non criminal and are all allegations . would that give them a cause for rejection for my ERS for personal conduct.

I VR when I was in the military and I understand theirs other applicants but does anyone know how long the process take to get your ERS from the day the start the process of looking into your background till granting you ERS . 

I know everyone is different and every case depends on the person but I'm asking for the average for someone that has everything in check .

thanks


----------



## Journeyman

Armystrong said:
			
		

> Im just curious what the enhanced reliability check consist of. I know it has to do with





			
				Armystrong said:
			
		

> HAS ANYONE HERE BEEN DIENED, REJECTED, PLACED ON HOLD OR BEEN INTERVIEWED OR ANYTHING ELSE REGARDING THE ENHANCED RELIABILITY STATUS SECURITY CLEARANCE.





			
				Armystrong said:
			
		

> im just confused why a basic ERS would take so far 7 months for a ex member, when everything is in order and nothing has changed.
> anyone know why they the private company doing the Security clearance checks like to take their sweet ass time.





			
				Armystrong said:
			
		

> ... does anyone know how long the process take to get your ERS from the day the start the process of looking into your background till granting you ERS .



First, let me say that I'm pre-emptively regretting getting involved in this thread.


I've seen ERS requests cleared in 2-3 days, not for recruiting but short-term contracts for former military pers.

I have no idea why yours is taking so long, however.... [just a possible guess].... you focus on finance and crime, but it is a RELIABILITY check.  _Perhaps_,  they contacted one of your references;  that person said "no, I'd hesitate hiring that person because..."  Red flag. They go on to the two other references, who respond in a similar manner, with their own reasons.  Their reasons may speak to your reliability (and/or personality that influences reliability).

Maybe consider who you chose as references, and what they may honestly say to a government official (as opposed to what you would like them to say).  Also, look at your posting history in this thread, and ponder how you _may_  come across to people.



These are just some things for you to consider.  I'm not looking for a discussion.  Honest.  Please don't respond.


----------



## Armstrong

All my references gave me a good reference so theirs no problem their. 
I've had a lot of jobs but the work history, references, data, name, address etc check is done by the reserve recruiter and I already passed that. does anyone here know what 3rd party does the security clearances for the CAF and if so the phone number to the company. 

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

Armystrong said:
			
		

> . does anyone here know what 3rd party does the security clearances for the CAF





			
				DAA said:
			
		

> Background checks done for your application to the CF are contracted out to Garda.


----------



## Armstrong

Hey 

I've been waiting for my security clearance ERS since June (online application submission) some guy is trying to take me to the CRT (small claims) for $900 when he bought a headlight that he wanted to return but it was a final sale.

Will this effect my security clearance in anyway . put it on hold , reject it or clear. it's in the pending stages. a staff member will make the decision if it will get dismissed or I have to pay back 900.

what do you guys think . thanks


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Armystrong said:
			
		

> All my references gave me a good reference so theirs no problem their.
> I've had a lot of jobs but the work history, references, data, name, address etc check is done by the reserve recruiter and I already passed that. does anyone here know what 3rd party does the security clearances for the CAF and if so the phone number to the company.
> 
> Thanks



It may be more intense depending on your chosen Occupation.

However, time for processing all depends on where you have lived, worked, travelled; if you have family outside of the country etc. You also have to remember they're not just doing it for CAF applicants, they provide the service for the entire Federal Government and it's also the end of the holiday season. Things slow down over the 3 week Christmas/New Year period. 

Garda will not give you any information over the phone, they are only permitted to release information regarding screening to the designated authority (CFRC).



			
				Armystrong said:
			
		

> Hey
> 
> I've been waiting for my security clearance ERS since June (online application submission) some guy is trying to take me to the CRT (small claims) for $900 when he bought a headlight that he wanted to return but it was a final sale.
> 
> Will this effect my security clearance in anyway . put it on hold , reject it or clear. it's in the pending stages. a staff member will make the decision if it will get dismissed or I have to pay back 900.
> 
> what do you guys think . thanks



If the dispute is entered and a court date is given, it becomes a "Legal Obligation" and it will halt your application altogether until it is resolved.


----------



## Armstrong

thank you for the reply . 

there's no court date just one person with the CRT (online small claims ) making a choice to dismiss the allegation or make me pay.  does that count as the same thing ? it's not criminal just someone saying untruthful things against me. 

thanks


----------



## clmarr

My ERC took 8 months to process, it is unusually long but it can happen. My file manager told me they are overwhelmed at my local CFRC, which results in longer than usual delays.


----------



## da1root

Armystrong said:
			
		

> there's no court date just one person with the CRT (online small claims ) making a choice to dismiss the allegation or make me pay.  does that count as the same thing ? it's not criminal just someone saying untruthful things against me.


Yes, the thing with the ERC isn't whether it's criminal or not, it's whether there are <b>legal obligations</b>.  You have an ongoing, unsettled legal obligation (even as an allegation).  I'm not saying 100% this is your hold up, but as someone with security clearance experience (I've held both A/USS and USS positions) it is a red flag for me.



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> DAA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Background checks done for your application to the CF are contracted out to Garda.
Click to expand...

Correction for 2017: Background checks are currently being handled by Mintz Global Security.  There are rumours this might be changing but last I saw the CAF is still using Mintz.


----------



## Armstrong

what I was told by an officer that you can still get granted ERS but you can't be enrolled in till you clear your legal obligation . is this true ?


----------



## da1root

Armystrong said:
			
		

> what I was told by an officer that you can still get granted ERS but you can't be enrolled in till you clear your legal obligation . is this true ?



Depending on a person's situation.  The ERC is approved by either the Detachment CO or if your file needs to be review by a panel at CFRG HQ.  It's up to the det CO / CFRG HQ panel to determine if they will grant your ERC.  If you are granted an ERC they can put stipulations on your enrollment.

One example that comes to mind.  A person has an old Rogers Bill, let's say it's $200.00, that they were unaware of, and it went to collections.  Technically you have an adverse financial obligation.  The det CO / CFRG HQ panel could determine that they'll grant your ERC (especially if you are paying off the bill in full) but put a condition that you have to prove the bill is paid prior to enrollment.


----------



## Armstrong

I hope your right. thank you for the information . I think one of the reasons they delay was due to clearing 450 CAF members who were going to Europe .

best of luck to everyone can't wait to serve


----------



## PuckChaser

Armystrong said:
			
		

> I hope your right. thank you for the information . I think one of the reasons they delay was due to clearing 450 CAF members who were going to Europe .
> 
> best of luck to everyone can't wait to serve


If you're already in the CAF, you already have ERC and the deployment would not effect recruiting clearances.


----------



## da1root

Armystrong said:
			
		

> I hope your right. thank you for the information . I think one of the reasons they delay was due to clearing 450 CAF members who were going to Europe .
> 
> best of luck to everyone can't wait to serve


To mimick Puckchaser

The ERC done for Applicants is handled by a contractor (Mintz Global Security at the moment).
Members already in the CAF that require ERC's (not many of them but it does happen) or Security Clearances are done in conjunction with a USS and DPM Secur and do not impact the ERC's for Applicants.


----------



## Armstrong

WHO DOES THE CREDIT CHECK AND CRIMINAL RECORD CHECK 
AS WELL AS WHAT IS LOOK AT WHEN DOING A CRIMINAL RECORD CHECK 
THANKS


----------



## da1root

1) Please refrain from using all caps in posts on this forum.
2) "Who does the credit check and criminal record check" - the answer to that question is literally in the thread before yours - Mintz Global Security - please spend some time reading threads and understanding the information posted"
3) " What is looked at when doing a criminal record check" - whether the person has a criminal record (i.e. Criminal Code of Canada convictions).


----------



## Alpheus

Probably a shot in the dark, but does anyone know/have an idea how long TS clearances are taking nowadays?  I got a response from Ottawa about an inquiry about my request that was submitted in June, and they say routine requests are lower pri then those for tours and OUTCAN postings.  Any idea on time frame?  Is an additional 6 to 12 months a reasonable WAG?
Follow-up:  What about SA caveats?  Historically quicker/the same/slower then TS?


----------



## PuckChaser

SA is a couple months once you have TS, if it's needed for operational reasons. TS can be a year or so if it's new and not required for a depending deployment.


----------



## da1root

Priority for Security Clearances is (and has been for years):

1. Deployment Requirements
2. OUTCAN Requirements
3. Trade (Course) Requirements
4. Routine Requests
5. Renewals/Updates

Wait time varies depending on how many staff DPM Secur has at any given time.  Also with the transition from webSCPS 1 to 2 there was quite a backlog for awhile however a bunch of approvals came in in version 1 just before and over christmas.  The other thing is many people are assuming that if they submitted everything that the clearance is being worked on; you should verify with your USS whether your clearance was submitted in v1 or v2.  If in v1, have them verify that QC control has it in hand and they're working on it.  If it was returned for any reason with missing/incomplete information the clearance will have to be redone in v2 (there is no transition service).


----------



## hcahopeful

Harrison_ said:
			
		

> Hello hcahopeful,
> 
> What you'll need is known in Germany as a Certificate of Conduct (Führungszeugnis). Applying for one is a relatively straightforward, quick procedure, even from within Canada. From the gov.ca website, here's an overview of the application process:
> https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/medical-police/police-certificates/how/germany.html
> Next, from the German Ministry of Justice, here's the website where you'll find the forms and the means to pay online:
> https://www.bundesjustizamt.de/DE/Themen/Buergerdienste/BZR/Inland/FAQ_node.html
> 
> You'll need to print off the form, have it notarized (bring some ID) and then mailed to the address listed in Bonn. Your finished certificate can't be mailed to a third-party, so you'll need to have it sent to your address and then you can drop it off at your recruiting centre.  If you have no record, it'll only be one word (in German), so hopefully they won't make you have it officially translated (my recruiting centre had a German speaker who did mine for me in-house). Best to clarify with your file manager while you're waiting about what they will do with the certificate once they have it (these documents expire within six months), as they originally thought I needed mine to be notarized, which means finding a German-speaking notary or taking it to the German embassy.
> 
> Hope that helps.



Hello again,

I just wanted to thank you for your help, this form was exactly what I needed! For reference if anyone else needs this form, it took exactly one month from me mailing the form to getting the returned check in the mail. This included the Christmas holidays, so I’d say it was a fairly quick process! My recruitment centre also let me translate it, which was a bonus. 

Thank you again for all your help, I really appreciate it!


----------



## jdog

Good Morning,

Firstly, let me just say thank you in advance for any help. This is my first topic/post, and while I can see the overall topic has been hashed dozens of times, there's some small details I'm missing. 

Background, I've been working for over 10 years in my current employment (IT). While I enjoy what I do, the company is shifting focus and moving in a few directions that is causing the environment to become rather toxic, and so many of the employees are jumping ship. My career here is stable, but the motivation is gone, employee treatment is terrible, and at the end of the day I don't feel I'm bringing anything useful to the company any longer as it's become so top/politically heavy, that anyone with power only cares about what cash bonuses they are getting and dirty deals they can work out to screw customers... All of that said, it's stable. The money is good, and I could work here for the next 20 years if I feel like becoming a zombie or gouging my own eyes out for entertainment. It's a bridge I can't afford to burn unless I know I've got a solid footing on my next career step.

I've only begun my application process, (AESOP) but things are looking promising so far. I've spoken with a recruiter about this and he was actually not sure of the answer. "I've never heard a question like this before" to be exact. (I'm puzzled how this could never be a past question, but anyway.)

I want to be absolutely sure that by the time I hit the BMQ, I'm ready to leap from the burning bridge and be completely certain there is a stable footing when I land. The last thing I want to do is hit BMQ, do the training, and whoops, something in paperwork kills my entire process. (I know nothing in life is certain, I could break my leg in BMQ on the first day walking up the stairs for all I know...)

At the moment, the only thing that I don't have an answer or solution for is my Security Clearance. From my understanding the AESOP position requires level 3... So it's a gauntlet, and takes a long time. My question is simple, can this process be started/completed before I move on to BMQ. I personally don't care if it extends my waiting for a year or longer. I just want to be sure that if something fails me, it does before I drop my current job. All the aptitude tests, interviews, etc that risk "bouncing" me before I start can be done before hitting the BMQ (and thus having to quit my job), except I don't know about the security clearance.

Worst nightmare... Everything lines up perfectly. I do the BMQ, the training, etc... And blow the security clearance... What happens to me?

I don't have a criminal record, never been charged with anything, the absolute worst thing I have ever done is gotten a single speeding ticket. My finances are in great condition, I own a new car, I own a house, bills are in perfect standing. I have good references, I have done police record checks and vulnerable sector checks in the past for volunteer work I do. I'm a Canadian born citizen and never traveled further out of country than the USA, and only for a maximum stint of 3 days I think... In theory, I don't see an issue passing this, but at the end of the day, I don't know anything about it, it's shrouded in mystery and confidentiality, so I have no way of classifying it. I know I can pass the BMQ, or SQ, or whatever training... There are countless videos and references and topics of what to expect... But I have no way of being certain about the clearance... And at worst case with any of my other "potentially bouncing" aptitude tests etc, I'll fail them before hitting BMQ and will not have burned my current job.

I know this is paranoid thinking, but I always look at situations from the worst case and work on them accordingly. This is the one area that I don't have visibility into, and therefore want to be ready for the worst outcome, even if it's not warranted.
Breaking it down, the questions are simple.
1) Can the security clearance be worked on before leaving to do BMQ and having to drop my current job?
2) If for some-god-aweful-who-knows-what reason I blow the clearance... What happens to me? What options do I have?

A secondary question (which I know has already been hashed and can't be answered, but I'll ask it anyway if anyone can comment.) what is involved in the level 3 clearance for AESOP? From my understanding there are different "branches" of level 3, but I don't have a solid understanding of what's different between them, and which one AESOP requires. (Again, from reading here it seems that, for example, a level 3 for comms, and level 3 for MP is different. Or one is tougher?)

Thank you to anyone who can offer some help. I know right away this is an "Oh crap not this question again..." type of topic but I can't find an answer to my particular situation. I've reached out to recruiting and couldn't get a definitive answer there either. So I'm somewhat at a loss.

Thanks again everyone for any help you can offer.


----------



## neacha67

Hi, I just had my Pre-Assessment interview today. It went well and they are sending my file off. I lived in Egypt for 4 years (worked at a restaurant) and returned home to Canada in  2010. I do not have any relatives outside of the country. I know it would just be a guess but they said it can take up to 18 months to come back. Does it ever take that long? Has anyone hear had the same issue of living in Egypt?
Thanks in advance!

Laura


----------



## Lumber

jdog said:
			
		

> Good Morning,
> 
> Thanks again everyone for any help you can offer.



First, there are no different branches of level 3, there is only Level 3 - Top Secret. That's all. 

Second, no, you can not get a head start on your security clearance. You will either start the application on basic training, or shortly after once you get to your first unit. 

Third, from what you've said, if all of it is true, there is literally no reason to your application should be bounced. As long as you provide a complete and accurate application, you'll be fine. Applications for level 3 are taking up to a year or just over to finish processing. 

Fourth, you don't actually need to have you security clearance to start working in your trade. Most trades need a certain level of security clearance in order that those member are fully operationally deployable, but during you every day work you won't necessarily needed. For example, as Naval Warfare Officer, I supposed to have a level 3 clearance. I joined in 2006, recieved my level 2 in 2008, and my level 3 in 2011. The first time I ever actually found myself in a situation where I actually needed my level 2 clearance wasn't until late 2011 when I did my first sail and had access to the ops room. Do you know how many times I've actually used/needed my level 3 clearance? 0. Never. 

So, for you, I doubt you'll need your level 3 to actually do your job as an AESOP. However, it's possible that one or some of your trades courses will require you to have at least a level 2 security cleaner in order to attend. For example, in the last two years they've amended the curriculum for Naval Combat Information Operators (NCIOPs), and and now they need level 2 clearance in order to even attend their first career course. 

If it turns out you need a minimum of level 2 clearance to attend one of your career courses shortly after basic training, there are two options. One is that you apply for level 2 instead of level 3, and the once you receive your level 2 you put in an application for an upgrade to level 2. The second option is you out in your application for for level 3 right away, and then you submit a request for them to give you a level 2 clearance while they are working on your level 3 (since the process of granting you a level 3 clearance is the same process as a level 2 clearance just with additional steps; they dig a little deeper). 

So, in summary, you have nothing to worry about, don't fret it. 

Credentials: I'm the Uniy Security Suoervisor at my unit and we've initiated 120 security clearance applications in the last 14 months.  About half a dozen were returned because we fucked up something stupid like when we entered someone's birth month as "01" meaning January instead of "10" for October. Not one, however, has been rejected/failed because they weren't deemed trustworthy of the clearance level being applied for. 

Good luck.


----------



## Lumber

neacha67 said:
			
		

> Hi, I just had my Pre-Assessment interview today. It went well and they are sending my file off. I lived in Egypt for 4 years (worked at a restaurant) and returned home to Canada in  2010. I do not have any relatives outside of the country. I know it would just be a guess but they said it can take up to 18 months to come back. Does it ever take that long? Has anyone hear had the same issue of living in Egypt?
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Laura



What did they say could take up to 18 months exactly? Your whole application or just your security screening?


----------



## Good2Golf

jdog said:
			
		

> A secondary question (which I know has already been hashed and can't be answered, but I'll ask it anyway if anyone can comment.) what is involved in the level 3 clearance for AESOP? From my understanding there are different "branches" of level 3, but I don't have a solid understanding of what's different between them, and which one AESOP requires. (Again, from reading here it seems that, for example, a level 3 for comms, and level 3 for MP is different. Or one is tougher?)



In additional to the points Lumber has mentioned, perhaps take a moment to reflect on the question above, you asked.  Imagine how someone might view such a question: someone on the Internet is asking for details about TOP SECRET security clearance activities for a specific technical trade and the country's armed forces.  Except for unclassified information about basic processing and high-level policies about validity, applicability, etc., it probably stands to reason that details about a particular level of security clearance may actually be considered, for the most part, to be treated at the same level as the category itself.  I.e. specific details about TOP SECRET clearance may be, you know, TOP SECRET.   Do you really want to be asking the question you asked?  See what I mean?

 :2c:

Regards
G2G


----------



## da1root

neacha67 said:
			
		

> Hi, I just had my Pre-Assessment interview today. It went well and they are sending my file off. I lived in Egypt for 4 years (worked at a restaurant) and returned home to Canada in  2010. I do not have any relatives outside of the country. I know it would just be a guess but they said it can take up to 18 months to come back. Does it ever take that long? Has anyone hear had the same issue of living in Egypt?
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Laura



That is accurate, applicants with foreign implications can take anywhere between 12-18 months (and I've seen some cases where it took longer) for the pre-sec to come back.  There have been a handful of cases where it went quicker but keep in mind that Recruiters should be helping to manage your expectations; if in one case a foreign implication file came back in 6 months and in every other case it took 18 months the recruiter won't tell you that it takes 6 months; they'll tell you that it take on average 18 months.


----------



## neacha67

OK thanks for the information. I will be patient.


----------



## jdog

Thank you very much Lumber and Good2Golf!

I really appreciate the info and time for the replies. My apologies once again as I know the question is probably more paranoid and worrisome than what's actually needed... It's just I can't seem to find any decent reliable information online (which is understandable, as there really shouldn't be information about it just floating around), which just leads to a vicious circle.

I spoke to my recruiter about it a little more, and even he said with what he saw on my forms, there shouldn't be any problems. The only question I couldn't get an answer to was the worst case "What if I fail level 3?" and his reply "You won't". 

My biggest fear is going through probably a year or more of training (this is after the year of applying and paperwork), and completely dumping my current career, to only land myself in limbo because of a failed clearance. (Again, yes, paranoid/worst-case scenario thinking... But sweating the small stuff is part of the Air side of things too.)

Thank you again gentlemen.


----------



## Lumber

jdog said:
			
		

> My biggest fear is going through probably a year or more of training (this is after the year of applying and paperwork), and completely dumping my current career, to only land myself in limbo because of a failed clearance. (Again, yes, paranoid/worst-case scenario thinking... But sweating the small stuff is part of the Air side of things too.)
> 
> Thank you again gentlemen.



You're fear is either extremely unfounded, or you're not telling us something. Did you get busted for pot possession at 16? Did you make fake credit cards applications at 17 and use them at movie theaters? Did you get caught trying to break into cars at 15?


----------



## jdog

Lumber said:
			
		

> You're fear is either extremely unfounded, or you're not telling us something.



I'm confident it's unfounded and I'm uselessly worried after everything said.
Worst things I've ever done in my life that could affect me:
-Speeding ticket. (The only time I've ever been in "trouble" with the police).
-"Borrowed" the family car when I was 15. (Lived in middle of nowhere country, drove it up and down the road a couple times. Didn't get caught, so it's not like it's on my record.) ... Although the *** kicking I got from my mom was probably worse.

-No criminal record from youth or adult years.
-I pass a yearly criminal record check and vulnerable sector check for volunteer work I do... So I'm really doubting I'm gonna hit any brick walls. 

Again... It's pure fear of the unknown at this point. If I jump from my current job, and something goes wrong, I am beyond screwed as I'm from such a rural area, there's no hope for me to get another job that can support my house/car/bills. But after what you guys have said, and my recruiter's reaction, I'm confident it won't be an issue for me. 
(Never hurts to ask when you don't know right?)

At the end of the day, I can't do anything to guarantee I won't have any problems transitioning to the new career. I could break my leg in basic, come down with some crazy disease, or get hit by a car. The odds of those happening are probably higher.

Again, thanks for all the info and help. I'll try and update as things progress (I suppose I probably won't be able to give any more info at some point along the ride, but I'll do what I can until then).

EDIT - One of the biggest factors that leads to my fear... I've had my current job for nearly 13 years. Raised my kids with it, bought my house and car with it, and there's no hope for going back once I jump. So it's like playing Russian Roulette. If things don't work out, I'm very very screwed.


----------



## Lumber

jdog said:
			
		

> I'm confident it's unfounded and I'm uselessly worried after everything said.
> Worst things I've ever done in my life that could affect me:
> -Speeding ticket. (The only time I've ever been in "trouble" with the police).
> -"Borrowed" the family car when I was 15. (Lived in middle of nowhere country, drove it up and down the road a couple times. Didn't get caught, so it's not like it's on my record.) ... Although the *** kicking I got from my mom was probably worse.
> 
> -No criminal record from youth or adult years.
> -I pass a yearly criminal record check and vulnerable sector check for volunteer work I do... So I'm really doubting I'm gonna hit any brick walls.
> 
> Again... It's pure fear of the unknown at this point. If I jump from my current job, and something goes wrong, I am beyond screwed as I'm from such a rural area, there's no hope for me to get another job that can support my house/car/bills. But after what you guys have said, and my recruiter's reaction, I'm confident it won't be an issue for me.
> (Never hurts to ask when you don't know right?)
> 
> At the end of the day, I can't do anything to guarantee I won't have any problems transitioning to the new career. I could break my leg in basic, come down with some crazy disease, or get hit by a car. The odds of those happening are probably higher.
> 
> Again, thanks for all the info and help. I'll try and update as things progress (I suppose I probably won't be able to give any more info at some point along the ride, but I'll do what I can until then).
> 
> EDIT - One of the biggest factors that leads to my fear... I've had my current job for nearly 13 years. Raised my kids with it, bought my house and car with it, and there's no hope for going back once I jump. So it's like playing Russian Roulette. If things don't work out, I'm very very screwed.



There are a ton of reasons that you could end up released; injury, poor performance, poor conduct, etc. As I've said, I've never seen anyone fail their security clearance application.

Worry about preparing yourself for basic training; exercise and eat healthy.


----------



## jdog

Lumber said:
			
		

> Worry about preparing yourself for basic training; exercise and eat healthy.



Yeppers! Already in progress and it's working great. Full steam ahead!

Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## mariomike

Stinton93 said:
			
		

> Quick question for anyone out there with a similar experience or anyone willing to provide some insight,



For reference, see also.

OP: Stinton93
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/28430/post-1527212.html#msg1527212


----------



## Harshs95

Does anyone know any reasons you could be denied level III clearance? Do arrests for any reason count?


----------



## da1root

Stinton93 said:
			
		

> Does anyone know any reasons you could be denied level III clearance? Do arrests for any reason count?



There are a multitude of reasons why a Level III Clearance could be denied.  That's like saying "does anyone know of any reasons a bank could deny me a loan".
Yes arrests will factor into the approval/denial of a Level III.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

The slightest doubt or incongruity can deny you a level III clearance.


----------



## Ceasar1989

I applied for intel ops in the NAVRES. I have completed all the steps including reference checks have been completed and sent back to DND. I emailed the recruiter on the status of my file and said that I should be receiving a letter about my reliability screening soon. Has anyone been through this what should I expect from the letter (positive outcome or negative)? I’m so nervous is it possibility it might be an offer letter? 

Also online shows intel ops is not hiring anymore. When I asked the recruiter he said I’m still good for this occupation. What are the chances I might get an offer before the summer?

Thanks


----------



## Ceasar1989

I applied to HMCS nonsuch. So far the process has been so quick I could barely keep up but now I’m just waiting on my reliability status which I’ve been waiting 3 weeks now. So when the file manager said a letter had been sent out I was surprised it was that quick. 

I had a couple of kore questions if you don’t mind. 

I have a 3 year college diploma in business admin, I am afraid a lot of people applied to intel ops, how is the competition?

I think I missed a couple of calls from the military they didn’t leave a message. What should I do? 

My background is from  a Middle East country known for their terrorism. I wasn’t born in Canada but came when I was 2 years old. I have visited my home country about 3 times in the last 10 years which I told the military. Also I had a government job 5 years ago which required a secret clearance will this help speed up my reliability screening? Or slow it down?


----------



## Shon.L77

neacha67 said:
			
		

> Hi, I just had my Pre-Assessment interview today. It went well and they are sending my file off. I lived in Egypt for 4 years (worked at a restaurant) and returned home to Canada in  2010. I do not have any relatives outside of the country. I know it would just be a guess but they said it can take up to 18 months to come back. Does it ever take that long? Has anyone hear had the same issue of living in Egypt?
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Laura



My case seems more complicated than yours as I 1) was born 2) direct family members residing 3) have stayed
more than 4 yrs outside Canada. I completed the lvl2 security(Pre enrolment) last Nov., as I know, it might take 18 months or shorter depending on urgency of trade you selected.(If in demand, it would be  shorter)Hope my case a bit of help for your understanding.
===
Level 2 security clearance
Drafted & reviewed with my file manager : Mar - Apr2017(Got a target interview as well as reference check conducted by Mintz Global)
Finalized Form sent off to Ottawa : Jun01,2017
Contacted by Security Investigation Agent : End of Sep 2017
Phone interview conducted by the investigator : Mid Oct 2017
Granted and moved to nexty steps(interview&Medical) : Mid Nov 2017


----------



## jfposada

Hi,
Is it true that for Reserve Officer (Armoured Recce) they only look at your past 5 years in order to determine if you need enhanced screening? I have dual citizenship since birth and grew up abroad, but I have been based in Canada for the past 6 years and only left the country for vacations.
Thanks.


----------



## Banbeta

I have done some reading on this issue, but couldn't find the answer to my question.

I've submitted all my paperwork for enrollment into the CAF, however I've already completed a ERC with the CF, will I need to do another one with the enrollment or no because they already have one in my file and its not even 3 months old


----------



## Banbeta

Hello,

I've submitted all my paperwork for enrollment into the CAF, however I've already completed a ERC with the CF (that is active, as I am working as a civi) will I need to do another one with the enrollment or no because they already have one in my file and its not even 3 months old


----------



## George Wallace

Banbeta said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I've submitted all my paperwork for enrollment into the CAF, however I've already completed a ERC with the CF (that is active, as I am working as a civi) will I need to do another one with the enrollment or no because they already have one in my file and its not even 3 months old



As a civilian, your Clearance may have been processed by PSPC and not through DND at all.  

In all likelihood you will have to do another Clearance, as you will have to apply for a Lvl II Clearance eventually. 

Be prepared.  Ensure you have all your information ready, in the case that you will have to resubmit.   

Keep your copies for your next filing (update) in ten years (for Lvl II) or five years (for Lvl III)


----------



## da1root

All security checks for DND/CAF are now performed by the Personnel Security Screening Office (PSSO, not their official acronym, just using it for ease of posting) which is part of the Military Police Group HQ in Ottawa (formally DPM Secur).

The only difference is that CAF members have their clearances saved in webSCPS v2.0; and Civilians have the USS of their unit send everything hard copy to PSSO.  Realistically your ERC should be able to be transfered, but even with that said you'll still need to a Security Clearance request at some point in time which requires more detailed information than the ERC.


----------



## Limabeezy

Currently a U.S. citizen residing in the U.S. that has the ability to apply for a dual citizenship and join the CAF. How long would the enlistment process take for me seeing as though ive lived out of country for so long? How would the security clearance process go for me? Currently a commercial diver with my DCBC (Canadian Cert.) Looking to continue diving if possible.
Thank you!


----------



## mariomike

Limabeezy said:
			
		

> Currently a commercial diver with my DCBC (Canadian Cert.) Looking to continue diving if possible.



For diving discussions.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+diver&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gws_rd=ssl

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## Jiminito

Will dropping dual citizenship status speed up pre-enrolment security check?


----------



## Jiminito

Is it a good idea to fill out 330-60 while waiting for Pre-Enrolment Screen decision? Given dual citizenship, lived abroad within past 10years, and have immediate family in a foreign country.


----------



## Xylric

I feel a bit silly for asking, but considering it caused a three hour delay crossing the border into the US on at least one occasion, it seemed appropriate.

Back when he was 8 years old, my grandfather attended a summer camp at the invitation of a friend.

Nearly fifty years later, a border guard showed him a photo of that same camp, and asked a few pointed questions. Do you know where this was taken, do you know this particular person, and so on.

It turns out that the camp his friend had invited him to was a communist youth camp, and one of the men running it later became the leader of the party in the province.

That's not likely to reflect on me, is it?


----------



## da1root

Jiminito said:
			
		

> Will dropping dual citizenship status speed up pre-enrolment security check?


No, regardless of dual citizenship or just Canadian; you would still have "foreign" implications and you would still have to do through pre-sec process.



			
				Jiminito said:
			
		

> Is it a good idea to fill out 330-60 while waiting for Pre-Enrolment Screen decision? Given dual citizenship, lived abroad within past 10years, and have immediate family in a foreign country.



Your form has to be "current" and only cover the period for which it asks.  You can start the process now to make it easier/quicker to submit it when asked for it; beyond making your life easier it makes no difference in the recruiting process whether you start filling it out now or later as you cannot submit it until it's asked for.



			
				Xylric said:
			
		

> I feel a bit silly for asking, but considering it caused a three hour delay crossing the border into the US on at least one occasion, it seemed appropriate.
> 
> Back when he was 8 years old, my grandfather attended a summer camp at the invitation of a friend.
> 
> Nearly fifty years later, a border guard showed him a photo of that same camp, and asked a few pointed questions. Do you know where this was taken, do you know this particular person, and so on.
> 
> It turns out that the camp his friend had invited him to was a communist youth camp, and one of the men running it later became the leader of the party in the province.
> 
> That's not likely to reflect on me, is it?



It "might" pop up depending on what database that information is held; but that's no different than someone being related to an individual who has committed a criminal act.  You might be asked questions about it; but I wouldn't see it causing issues with your enrollment.


----------



## Deleted member 89807

Hey guys,

I've been reading through the forums for the last couple days trying to figure out some more information of security clearances, but cant seem direct answers to some of my questions. Hoping for some help and insight from anyone.

I am in the Navy, only been here about a month, sitting in a pat platoon room waiting for things like Level II (Secret) security clearance. Talking with others Ive come to learn that things are pretty backed up and can take a while. Some here have been waiting ten months with no answer yet. 1) even though things may be backed up, is this normal? Or is it more of an individual case?  

What exactly are they looking for when granting a level II clearance. I have nothing to hide and have been 100% honest with my application, I guess its just the fear of the unknown that makes me worried I may not get the clearance I need. I've never lived outside of Canada, have visited Cuba, Jamaica, Dominican on vacations. I'm married and separated with a divorce still in progress. No criminal record. I do have some debt, but its under 9,000 on a line of credit but I've never missed a payment and the amount has been lowering with every month. I have 6 siblings though, some of which have a record - mostly for alcohol I assume. The only part besides a little debt that I'm concerned about is the fact that I have been terminated from employment before. I put the details in the Stat Dec section. Its two jobs over the last ten years that I was actually unaware that they "fired" me for. I had quit both jobs during the probationary period with notice, I was only aware they put "dismissed" on my ROE with reviewing them on service Canada for timelines of employment history for the Level II application.

Should I have anything to worry about? 
Has anyone heard of anyone being denied secret clearances? And for what kind of things?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help and possibly put my mind at ease since Ill be waiting probably quite a while for the accepted/denied status.


----------



## Good2Golf

Security clearances can take some time, months even, so some of the wait times you are hearing are not out of the ordinary.  As you noted, you have provided accurately all the information requested, so there is not much else you can do at this point unless asked for additional information.  While it can be frustrating to wait, there is not much you can do directly at this time, so now would be a good time to practice patience and thinking about some of the other activities you can do in preparation for the next step of training.  Honestly, it is not worth trying to over-think how the various factors you mentioned may be taken into account by those conducting the security clearance assessment.

Good luck on your ongoing training!

Regards
G2G


----------



## shawndw

In two weeks time I will be sent off to the BMQ and I need to fill out a security clearance form however one of my prior employers from 9 years ago was acquired by a competitor and moved out of my town (the acquisition happened after I left) and I no longer have any way of contacting my prior supervisor or providing a contact phone number for the company. All I can do is provide the address the company had at the time and the date I joined and left. I don't know how to get in touch with anyone from the company as I haven't really kept in contact with my former coworkers.

What do I do here. Do I just fill out the entry for the employer in question but leave the contact information blank? also since the company was acquired after I left do I put in the name of the company such as it was when I was employed there or do I enter their current name.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Just make sure you fill all the appropriate sections for that employer with the full information as it was at the time of your employment, then attach a supplementary sheet (typed, please!) to your form indicating that such acquisition/move occurred after your time with the employer.

The important thing is to leave no employment period undisclosed. The investigators assigned to the matter have ways to check on various aspects of your story that will let them confirm that your info was complete and truthful, which is what matters most to them. They may even have ways of tracking down your supervisor of the time that are beyond your capacities.

Main point: be thorough and honest and it should turn out OK.

Good luck for BMQ and welcome aboard.


----------



## nextup

I did my medical February 12, 2019, went well. I was told to wait for ottawa to get back to me for next step as they are doing a background check on me. Any idea from experience from anyone as to how long this will take and what happens in the next phase?. 

The reason I am asking is because my recruiting officer said by march I will get notified and the person that did my medical exam said they would get back to me by august. I just want to know the correct time frame for this step. 

thank you. 

Position applied for: Regular Infantry.


----------



## superhanuman

nextup said:
			
		

> I did my medical February 12, 2019, went well. I was told to wait for ottawa to get back to me for next step as they are doing a background check on me. Any idea from experience from anyone as to how long this will take and what happens in the next phase?.
> 
> The reason I am asking is because my recruiting officer said by march I will get notified and the person that did my medical exam said they would get back to me by august. I just want to know the correct time frame for this step.
> 
> thank you.
> 
> Position applied for: Regular Infantry.



It will all depend on your background (i.e. how long have you lived/travelled/lived abroad) that will impact how long the security check will take. If you've been doing yoga in India, Kung Fu training in China or racing Camel in Yemen then you can be sure that it'll take a while. They usually say it can take up to 18 months. but don't be surprised if it takes longer.

SH


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## 211RadOp

Edit to remove as topic was merged.


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## Titix

Hi all,

I applied for ACSO and I passed Aircrew selection a month ago. 8 days later one of my references told me she has been contacted. 2 days after that I received a call from someone looking to double-check an information regarding my professional background (since I was my own boss for a period of 2 years). He said "thank you, that's all I wanted to verify", and said "yes" when I asked if this call was part of the background check process. I found it encouraging to receive such call but I wonder if the process was close to completion or if it can still take months before I'm good to go (I regret I didn't ask more questions when I had this guy on the phone!). I heard that references are contacted at the end of the background check process though. Besides, since I had to fill an extensive set of paperwork when I applied for permanent residency and citizenship (I'm a french citizen), aren't they supposed to get most of their information from Immigration? For instance I had to provide many criminal record extracts from all the countries where I spent 6 months or more in the past 10 years, all my adresses and jobs for the same period, all my trips in and out of Canada etc. Reviewing the history of a brand new citizen should be an easy job, isn't it?


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## da1root

Reviewing the history of a brand new citizen is harder than reviewing the history of a citizen that has been in Canada 10 years, 20 years or their entire life.
In regards to sharing your information with Canada Immigration & Citizenship; you gave them that information for your Immigration; not for employment - unless there is a "sharing agreement" in place between Government Agencies, your private information isn't shared among agencies (except for law enforcement under court order / subpoena, and orders of that nature) - as such although you already provided it to CIC, you still need to provide the information to the CAF.  It would be no different than if you applied to a Provincial Job that required the background check, you'd need to provide it to them as well.


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## OblivionKnight

Hello, I'm re-applying to the military since my file was closed a few months ago. I have a few questions:

-How long is the background check valid for? I ask because my references were called during a background check a few months ago for another occupation before my file was closed, and the recruiter told me that they 'might' perform another background check but also that they may not have to as it was fairly recent. 
-In the 'employment history' part of the background check, are the employers called only to attain information regarding the duration of employment, or is it more detailed (i.e. asking about performance, character, etc.)? Because I merely wrote down 'human resources' as the form asked for "name of contact" and "contact number" instead of providing a manager's contact information for example. Will this be an issue?


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## Holedigger

Hello,

Is there anyone who knows the difference between a background check and a pre-security assessment? I was under the impression that the pre-security assessment was part of a background check, however, the interactions with the CFRC made me rethink my understanding. For example, sometime last week, when I called CFRC-Kingston to get an update on my file, I was told that the background check came back all good, and I was soon to be put on the competition list for the trades of my selection, however, when I checked in yesterday, I was told that the background check has not started yet, and I need to have a pre-security assessment before I can be put on the competition list.  So, what is going on exactly?  ???

I would really appreciate some input on this situation from any knowledgeable forum member up here. 

Thanks


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## da1root

OblivionKnight said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm re-applying to the military since my file was closed a few months ago. I have a few questions:
> 
> -How long is the background check valid for? I ask because my references were called during a background check a few months ago for another occupation before my file was closed, and the recruiter told me that they 'might' perform another background check but also that they may not have to as it was fairly recent.
> -In the 'employment history' part of the background check, are the employers called only to attain information regarding the duration of employment, or is it more detailed (i.e. asking about performance, character, etc.)? Because I merely wrote down 'human resources' as the form asked for "name of contact" and "contact number" instead of providing a manager's contact information for example. Will this be an issue?


To your first question an update will be completed, the CAF will always want the most up to date information before enrolling you. As to your second question putting HR isn't an issue; if they're asking questions HR can't answer that should give a managers name.  For example I was actually contacted a number of years ago by the RCMP by an ex military member joining them, I was put down as the HR contact; I answered as much as I could and then referred them to the manager for that member. Worse case scenario you will be asked to provide more information should it be required.  Don't overthink the process... 



			
				Holedigger said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Is there anyone who knows the difference between a background check and a pre-security assessment? I was under the impression that the pre-security assessment was part of a background check, however, the interactions with the CFRC made me rethink my understanding. For example, sometime last week, when I called CFRC-Kingston to get an update on my file, I was told that the background check came back all good, and I was soon to be put on the competition list for the trades of my selection, however, when I checked in yesterday, I was told that the background check has not started yet, and I need to have a pre-security assessment before I can be put on the competition list.  So, what is going on exactly?  ???
> 
> I would really appreciate some input on this situation from any knowledgeable forum member up here.
> 
> Thanks



The pre-security assessment is to determine if someone would require a pre-security check done; normally this is for individuals who have foreign implications (i.e. who've lived outside of Canada in the last 5 years; have relatives living outside of Canada; have financial assets / land outside of Canada). Pre-security Assessments require information from foreign governments (i.e. the FBI for individuals who have USA implications, etc).
The background check is done after the pre-security assessment and is done for your "Canada" background.

Being told that your background check was completed; and then being told that you had to have a pre-assessment sounds like a recruiter may have had a different file open in error in either your 1st or 2nd phone call (this happens from time to time and is a system glitch; I've been working with the system for 5 years so I realize when it happens, not all recruiters realize their system didn't update properly for them).

I would reach back to your CFRC and verify where your background checks are.


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## HPM

[size=14pt]After 14 months, I got an email from my recruiter saying that I failed in the Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Check. He also added that I am on a second level security check right now. 

Does anyone know what second-level security check is, or is it just another Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Check?

Aren't you disqualified already if you are denied a security clearance?
[/size]


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## Hunterx

Hello all

I am preparing my forms for 10 years background check. I just remembered I have a dormant bank account less than 800 CAD in another country. It has been dormant for roughly 4 years and i have no intention of re-activating it since I became a citizen of Canada already. Will they require me additional document for that? Will it afftect my security and reliabiity screening?


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## macarena

Jiminito said:
			
		

> Is it a good idea to fill out 330-60 while waiting for Pre-Enrolment Screen decision? Given dual citizenship, lived abroad within past 10years, and have immediate family in a foreign country.





			
				Hunterx said:
			
		

> I am preparing my forms for 10 years background check. (...)



Hi, mates!
Since many posts on this thread concerns level 3 clearance check, I will give it a go. Hope it is the right place.
I am in similar scenario as these two buddies: I am a canadian citizen living in Brazil for 11 years, and I am filling up a 330-60. I also have been in Brazilian Army but now I am free of any military obligations in Brazil, since I am older than 45 y.o. But since it was the fact that I have been refused the level 3 clearance in 2006, then I am still afraid that they refuse it again, even if I can't be mobilized by brazilian army as I could be in 2006. And I still have debts in Canada to take care of.  :-[

So, my question is: In the 330-60, in the section M, I am supposed to present the reference of an actual neighboor who LIVES in Canada, and who have met me for at least 6 months. Or, in case I can't present an actual neighboor, I can present a neighboor who LIVES in Canada, and who have met me for at least 6 months during the past 5 years.
Well, since I am living outside Canada for 11 years, what should I do? [:'(
Leave that field empty and explain preciselly that I can't satisfy none of the two requests?

Yet about the 330-60, for the section I, I've read that we should pay attention to avoid leaving gaps, as well as to avoid overlapping periods, in the way to avoid extra time to be taken in the verifications.
So, in a first situation in the past, I've been unemployed for 1 year, then I started some studies, but I was still unemployed. Should I say that my unemployed period has finished when I started the studies?
In another situation, while I was doing those studies, I've got my actual job. Should I say that the final date of the studies has been the month preceding the begin of the job?

If anyone is stuck in similar situations, or if one has knowledge to point me out some helping directions, I will be glad to hear from.
Thanks in advance!
I love you, Veterans!


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## Hunterx

Hey 

Your best advisor would be your recruiter,I guess. I am also in the same scenario where i had unemployments while studying then got a job while studying the same course. So if i am
going to insert the period where i was studying While being employed and unemployed ,it will mess up the chronological order and will sure make someone got confused going over it.  So instead of inserting the education i was doing between the unemployment and enployment periods ,i am planning to place them all  in an extra word document with brief and clear explanations.....


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## macarena

macarena said:
			
		

> (...)
> So, my question is: In the 330-60, in the section M, I am supposed to present the reference of an actual neighboor who LIVES in Canada, and who have met me for at least 6 months. Or, in case I can't present an actual neighboor, I can present a neighboor who LIVES in Canada, and who have met me for at least 6 months during the past 5 years.
> Well, since I am living outside Canada for 11 years, what should I do? [:'(
> Leave that field empty and explain preciselly that I can't satisfy none of the two requests?
> (...)



I would like to express my humble apologizes for the above part of my request, since I had the answer all the time. I can't erase that part, then I wil try to expose the solution, in the hope it can help anyone else in similar situation, and reduce the impact of my mistake.

In fact, I've got the 330-60 from an email of the agent which is dealing with my case. And in his email he DOES clarify preciselly, clear enough, that in the section M, my references DO NOT NEED to be living in Canada, but does need to talk in english.
Then, when the form ask about a neighboor, we are intended to present some actual neighboor living outside Canada as we are.

So simple, coming from the Recruitment!
So dumb from me!


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## Hunterx

I learned that CSIS completed a security clearance about a year ago as requirement for canadian citizenship, only thing is the level
Of security clearance wasn’t indicated when i asked IRCC agent about it .Just wanna know if this will help out and speed up my security, background and any screening checks, in so much that nothing big has changed in my status ,same immediate relative living abroad , and havent traveled abroad .In addition to that, my employment references here in canada  have already been called. Thanks


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## ForTheLoveOfThePeople

Just a question that someone might be able to clear up for me.

When is the enhanced reliability screening done? Is it granted as part of the background check during the application process, or do they run it during BMQ when you hand in the TBS 330-60E form?

And if it's done during BMQ and you aren't granted the clearance, do you get released at that point?


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## Holedigger

ForTheLoveOfThePeople said:
			
		

> Just a question that someone might be able to clear up for me.
> 
> When is the enhanced reliability screening done? Is it granted as part of the background check during the application process, or do they run it during BMQ when you hand in the TBS 330-60E form?
> 
> And if it's done during BMQ and you aren't granted the clearance, do you get released at that point?



Hi,

The ERC is done as part of the background check, when your background check is completed, the ERC should be completed as well. It is not done during BMQ.

Holedigger


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