# Ruggedized, portable field printers...



## MOOXE (12 Mar 2007)

Hey guys..

I am trying to get a quote together for my unit for these types of printers. A web search comes up with many ruggedized printers, but they mostly weigh 40lbs or more, and do not look very man portable. We currently have 5 printers, all N/S, because dust, dirt and just normal field condictions rendered them useless. We do have those huge inkjet colour printers, model escape me. They have the gigantor green box, about 4ft by 4ft.

Anyways..... I am calling on any experience out there as to what brand of printer would be usefull for field operations.


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## Roy Harding (12 Mar 2007)

MOOXE said:
			
		

> Hey guys..
> 
> I am trying to get a quote together for my unit for these types of printers. A web search comes up with many ruggedized printers, but they mostly weigh 40lbs or more, and do not look very man portable. We currently have 5 printers, all N/S, because dust, dirt and just normal field condictions rendered them useless. We do have those huge inkjet colour printers, model escape me. They have the gigantor green box, about 4ft by 4ft.
> 
> Anyways..... I am calling on any experience out there as to what brand of printer would be usefull for field operations.



You're looking for a "man-packable" printer?  IE - not mounted in or moved by vehicle?  Ruggedized?  It's called an FMP.

You're not going to find such a beast, at least not a "ruggedized" or milspec one.  Why are printers going forward of Coy HQ?

Once you drop the "man-packable" criteria - the choices are legion.

Roy


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## chrisf (12 Mar 2007)

MOOXE said:
			
		

> Hey guys..
> 
> I am trying to get a quote together for my unit for these types of printers. A web search comes up with many ruggedized printers, but they mostly weigh 40lbs or more, and do not look very man portable. We currently have 5 printers, all N/S, because dust, dirt and just normal field condictions rendered them useless. We do have those huge inkjet colour printers, model escape me. They have the gigantor green box, about 4ft by 4ft.
> 
> Anyways..... I am calling on any experience out there as to what brand of printer would be usefull for field operations.



Aren't there already ruggedised printers in the system? Not saying they're good, but they're already in the system... plus they're designed to work with tempest equipent... perhaps a suggestion of what you plan to use them for? I'm curious what exactly anyone would need a "man-portable" printer for... if it's not mounted in a truck, I would think a pencil and maybe some carbon paper would be your best option....


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## buzgo (12 Mar 2007)

Buy small printers, portable if you need and get Pelican or Hardigg cases for them.


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## Roy Harding (12 Mar 2007)

signalsguy said:
			
		

> Buy small printers, portable if you need and get Pelican or Hardigg cases for them.



Are YOU are going to man-pack such a setup?


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## MOOXE (12 Mar 2007)

Honestly I dont know what they use them for here at 2 RCHA. I do know they use them in the field. Currently they are 5 broken down compact bubblejets. They get thrown around alot... you know field conditions.... So I just need a suitable replacement that will last longer by holding up to the conditions here in Petawawa. Theres gotta be something out there, ruggedized, rubberized? I wonder what contractors use on building sites? I am turning up nothing on searches.


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## Roy Harding (12 Mar 2007)

Well - as Just a Sig Op above noted, there ARE ruggedized printers in the system.  Alternatively, signals guy has suggested a good method of protecting off the shelf products.  If these are being used by Artillerymen, then I imagine it has something to do with being able to easily print out the various data they need.  This implies that the Guns are nearby - which belies the need for manpack portability.

As for what contractors use on constructions sites - I have some experience there.  NONE of their stuff is manpack portable.  It all comes in either on trucks, or in big honkin' trailers.


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## Disenchantedsailor (13 Mar 2007)

Try getting ahold of JDCS Esquimalt, we just finished building a server for them, they might have some ideas


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## 241 (13 Mar 2007)

MOOXE said:
			
		

> Honestly I dont know what they use them for here at 2 RCHA. I do know they use them in the field. Currently they are 5 broken down compact bubblejets. They get thrown around alot... you know field conditions.... So I just need a suitable replacement that will last longer by holding up to the conditions here in Petawawa. Theres gotta be something out there, ruggedized, rubberized? I wonder what contractors use on building sites? I am turning up nothing on searches.



They are used by the cp crews to print of set up data, check missions etc...At 20 Fd we have built shelves in our Cp's and have the printers strapped to them so they don't fall off during transport to and from the feild and around the field...I am not in the CP but I have been into them to pull stuff out and they don't seem to be to affected by dust etc...Not sure what kind of printers they use but I am sure I can find out when the get back from the field on the 17 or 18...But from what I remember they are just normal printers a little old but nothing special...

Edit to add: Granted we don't do heli-ops or anything that does not have our LSVW CP with us so we don't need anything small as you where mentioning, I do know that Super store has small printers for $40 so maybe the answer isn't 6 or 12 expensive "ruggedized, portable printers" but 100 cheap small printers...


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## willy (14 Mar 2007)

I think there are two main questions to answer before you start:

1- Are you going to go and buy these with the unit acquisition card?  In my experience, any time you try to make a local purchase of IT resources of any type you get your wrist slapped.  DND has existing contracts in place to supply all the IT stuff we're ever supposed to need. You may want to confirm what the policy is before you start buying stuff, as the system may be able to provide something suitable.  If the system can't provide you with the sort of printer you want, then be aware that you may have to explain that in great detail before you get authorization to buy off the shelf.  

2- I'd recommend that you ask the interested parties what they need the printers for and how they plan to use them.  So far all we know is that they go to the field.  What about what sort of cables they want involved, whether they need to print colour, whether they need to print 8 1/2 x 11" only or other paper types as well, etc.  Is this thing going to get bolted in to a rack in the back of a rad van and stay there?  Is it possible that they want it for a LAN in a can type of operation where it could be with the Bty CP one day and set up in a building somewhere the next?  Is it possible that somebody actually thinks he wants something that he could carry around with him on patrol?  All of these requirements need to be known before you can make a recommendation as to make and model.

Not knowing the answers to the above, it's hard to say what you're going to need, but hopefully these points will be helpful:

-I've used Tempest hardened printers that basically had a metal shell over the whole thing.  Those would likely be a bit more rugged than a normal printer, but not much- it's still just a regular printer on the inside.  They'd be hard to get as well, and not every Tempest printer has the shell I'm talking about-some look just like a normal civvy printer.  On the plus side, they're what you really want if you're processing any classified information, which I'd imagine you probably would be.

-I've also used lightweight bubble jet printers in pellican cases before for portable/unclas applications.  They get broken all the time.  There isn't really anything you can do about that, other than to carry spares.  

-Other than the real "military" printers used with Iris, etc (which are all pure POS as I'm sure you know) I don't know of anything that was ever purpose built as a military/ruggedized printer.


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## Disenchantedsailor (14 Mar 2007)

Willy,

What sort of setup is TTCC or JDCS or whatever they call themselves this week using ??


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## willy (14 Mar 2007)

We've used all sorts of printers in the TTCC, none were especially special.  All were run of the mill printers that could just as easily be in any office on the base.  

I don't know what the JDC is doing differently now, if anything, but I'll ask tomorrow at work.


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## geo (14 Mar 2007)

Home depot - metal briefcase toolbox with foam insert - you can cut to fit whatever printer you want to fit in there.  
If you want one with the fewest moving parts - look at thermal printers - but there is the problem with being able to write on the paper & the availability of rolled paper when in the field.
Zebra puts out a thermal transfer printer that is a mix of the old with the new - it has rolled paper and rolled film - film is heated up for the toner transfer to your paper.... again few moving parts.
Cheap inkjet printers.... spend more on ink cartridges than on the printer itself - some places are almost giving inkjet/bubblejet printers - in order that you can buy cartridges from them.
Laser printers - cheapest print job, longest lasting toner/ink cartridges - the most moving parts...


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## buzgo (14 Mar 2007)

I used the same networked HP Laserjet 4 in the field for 5 years without failure. We had it in a hardigg case. It was regularly tossed in the trailer and bounced all over Petawawa training area. As long as it gets put away in the case properly and is maintained/cleaned, COTS gear will be okay. Just cargo strap the case down if movement is a concern.

I still say go with a portable inkjet in a peli case. If you wanted to be really HSLD you could get a custom insert made to allow the laptop and printer to be run from within the case.


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## hank011 (16 Mar 2007)

We have deskjet 320's in a backpack with a laptop, never have let us down but I dont know what is so small these days.


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## MOOXE (19 Mar 2007)

Thank you for the replies.


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## Devlin (19 Mar 2007)

Try here I don't have first hand experience with these but have seen them used in a few places they seemed pretty good.
http://www.datametricscorp.com/products_printers.htm


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## chrisf (23 Mar 2007)

Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing they manufactured some of the stuff in our TCCCS system, as the model 4080 and the model 1200 (If painted green) look exactly the same as two of the printers in our TCCCS system.


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## Bintheredunthat (8 May 2007)

FYI - As part of a recent Withdrawl Order from Ottawa - the POS green TCCCS printers (aka - PDT-P) should now be gonzo.  If you have them at your unit - someone is not doing their job......or hasn't heard the word I suppose (to be fair).  They are non-compliant, obsolete, whatever.....with System Release 1.5.  Have heard absolutely nothing on any replacement. 

However, it seems to me that with the miltary's current situation, than any info requiring printing is usually done at a more static CP location with decent print capabilities available right?  Do we really need rugged print capabilities?  Honestly.  Let's say we paid 1000 bucks for a mil-spec rugged printer - you just know it would have custom ink cartridges at 100 a piece.  You could buy 10 Laser jets for that price and just swap em like crazy.  Just my thoughts - but I think the Army may have learned a lesson from the useless purchase of the PDT-Pos.  Even though I'm sure it was part of a package deal - you just know the numbers added up pretty quick.


Bin


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## George Wallace (8 May 2007)

Obviously you are too young to remember the old problems with the "Field Photocopier" in those days when us 'Dinosaurs' hadn't even heard of the Commadore 64.

Any piece of equipment taken into the Field in the back of a SMP or AFV had better be "ruggedized".  







I suppose a MLVW full of bubble wrap could solve all these problems and you could buy off the shelf at Future Shop.   :


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## Roy Harding (8 May 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ...
> Any piece of equipment taken into the Field in the back of a SMP or AFV had better be "ruggedized".
> ...



When I was the Ops NCO at 1 Svc Bn, a team of engineers came on exercise with us to assess our comms needs (early stages of TCCCS project.)  One of them asked me how rugged I thought the components needed to be.  My reply?  "You people are building us a communications system - don't do that.  Build us a hammer we can talk on."

We stepped out of the penthouse, and witnessed a soldier pounding a modular stake with a manpack radio.  Point made.

This is an extreme example, obviously - but true nevertheless.  All "stuff" NEEDS to be ruggedized, not only against abuse, but for nomally bouncing around, dusty conditions, wet conditions, exteme heat conditions, extreme cold conditions - I'm assuming (I don't know) the same holds more or less true for more "rugged" civilian enterprises as well (oil field exploration, forestry, and the like).


Roy


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## willy (10 May 2007)

No one can or should expect anything but a hammer to work properly after having being used as a hammer.

The biggest lesson I've learned about electronic devices is that the only way to ensure reliability is to carry spares.  Ruggedized or not, field use or garrison, spares = success, no spares = problem.

Ruggedize away, but how much is that going to cost?  How many are we going to get?  How often are they going to get broken anyway because someone uses them as a hammer?  Might it not be easier and more cost effective overall to buy 2 off the shelf and keep the second one in a pellican case until it's needed?


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## Roy Harding (10 May 2007)

willy said:
			
		

> No one can or should expect anything but a hammer to work properly after having being used as a hammer.
> 
> The biggest lesson I've learned about electronic devices is that the only way to ensure reliability is to carry spares.  Ruggedized or not, field use or garrison, spares = success, no spares = problem.
> 
> Ruggedize away, but how much is that going to cost?  How many are we going to get?  How often are they going to get broken anyway because someone uses them as a hammer?  Might it not be easier and more cost effective overall to buy 2 off the shelf and keep the second one in a pellican case until it's needed?



I absolutely agree with you willy.

The point I was making at the time of the trials was that these things need to be rugged, so they don't break EASILY, given the conditions in which they are utilized.

That I was somewhat hyperbolic in my statement to the engineer, and that the hyperbole was immediately proved true by a simpleton misusing equipment is simply an amusing (to me, anyway) anecdote.


Roy


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## MOOXE (10 May 2007)

So what I ended up doing was taking two ancient (but portable) laser printers and set them aside for field use. After seeing our budget for this kind of stuff I did not even try to buy them considering the other stuff we need. So for now, old laser's + pelican cases! We do have 3 HP 2500's, but they are just way too large, the case they come in is a two man lift.


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## hank011 (31 Jul 2007)

If you want a couple of "never out of the box", "standalone only" LJ 4050's(circa 2000) I can transfer them to you. They are Tempest but the Manufacturer(DRS) is "US TEMPEST approved" but not "Canadian" approved and therefore of no use. Would save me taking a sledge to them.


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## Weekendsig (13 Nov 2007)

Someone there suggested using a tempest printer. I have used the "new" SSG 1700 TR Tempest Computer and it comes with a tempest printer in a metal housing and a nice Pelican case. I had it on the Smith Islands in Iqualit on Op Nannook and a buddy of mine is using em in Afgan. He hasnt had any problems with the printer it self but it is a bubble jet and you will want to have alot of ink cartriges. 

There are restrictions. The connectors are Physicaly DB9 connectors, but are wired to be USB so you cant put this printer on anything generic.

The TCCCS rugged printers as I understand it from the LCMM and I may be wrong are being phased out due to upgrades to some of the computer systems that are being considered/installed. 

And i do agree that the TCCCS rugged printers are POS. A bit of dust screws up the tracks. Anger insues. And we go back to FMP.


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