# Independent Quebec will have own army: Duceppe



## Maritime_Matt (19 Oct 2005)

Canadian Press

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OTTAWA â â€ An independent Quebec would have its own military forces and spy service, says Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe, taking a firm stand on a traditionally wrenching issue for separatists.

"There'll be an army, of course," Mr. Duceppe said Tuesday in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We have to have those organizations, I would say."

The leader of the sovereigntist Bloc indicated the notion of creating a distinct security apparatus in a newly independent Quebec was no longer as controversial as it has been in the past.

"I went around Quebec saying the same thing I just said to you, and I see no opposition at all," Mr. Duceppe said.

The provincial Parti Québécois has wrestled for years with the question of a military force for a sovereign Quebec. Past general meetings of the PQ have included emotional pleas against a Quebec armed forces.

But the independence movement needs to evolve, Mr. Duceppe said. That evolution might begin in about 10 days.

The Bloc will examine the role the nascent armed forces of Quebec might play at a policy meeting in Montreal that begins Oct. 28.

"What kind of foreign policy will we have? What kind of national defence? What kind of equipment, and so on?"

The threat of terrorism has also forced sovereignty supporters to re-evaluate the security needs of an independent Quebec, the Bloc leader said.

Quebec shares a lengthy border with the United States, which has been very demanding of Ottawa on issues related to security since the Sept. 11 airliner attacks. 

Mr. Duceppe acknowledged those demands, while criticizing the federal government for rushing out to buy new military equipment without clearly defining what it wants the Canadian Armed Forces to do.

For instance, he said instead of submarines the military might be better off with "smart ships" that could transport troops and equipment to disaster zones and be transformed into floating hospitals.

"If you develop a foreign policy the way we see it, then we'll have an army that will intervene mainly to secure democracy in some countries, participating in international forces, going when there's a natural catastrophe, either inside Quebec or outside Quebec," Mr. Duceppe said. 

"And sometimes you have to go to war."

Defence Department documents prepared in the tense months leading up to the October 1995 sovereignty referendum â â€ narrowly won by No forces â â€ said an independent Quebec would find it "very costly" to develop a full-fledged military and could have difficulty gaining entry to NATO and other international alliances.

An internal memo noted such a force would require land facilities, equipment, personnel and the full spectrum of training tools and manuals. 

It said "an indication of the costs" of maintaining a credible force for Quebec, with a population of 7.3 million, could be determined through comparisons with other countries. 

For instance, Austria, population 7.5 million, had a defence budget of $2.3 billion, while Sweden, with 8 million people, spent $6.9-billion on its military. Expenditures by Norway and Switzerland figured between the two extremes. 

As the 1995 referendum approached, the Parti Québécois government of the day said that, after separation, the province would take part in UN peacekeeping missions and take steps to remain a member of NATO and NORAD. 

The Defence Department memo concluded "it is impossible to determine whether an independent Quebec would eventually gain entry" to these organizations. "However, it is unlikely that membership would be automatic."

Mr. Duceppe said while an independent Quebec would co-operate on security issues with the rest of Canada, the United States and Mexico, he stressed the importance of forging alliances with European partners.

He cited a need to examine the roots of terrorist activity and warned that if people surrender liberty in favour of undue security measures to thwart terrorists, "you're playing their game."

Mr. Duceppe made it clear his party would continue to send MPs to Ottawa as long as Quebeckers want sovereigntists to represent them. 

The secessionist Bloc was formed in 1990 as an angry response to unsuccessful attempts to satisfy Quebec's constitutional demands. The party was seen initially as a temporary force on the federal scene â â€ the so-called "shock troops" of Quebec independence.

But 15 years later the party has become a fixture in Parliament, cementing its dominance in Quebec by securing 54 of the province's 75 seats in the 2004 election.

--

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051019/quebec_army_duceppe_051019/20051019?hub=Canada

The Bloc has continued to lead in polls of Quebec voters amid revelations of federal misspending in the sponsorship affair, a scandal many Quebeckers see as demeaning.

Still, it is unclear when, or even if, the Quebec government will put sovereignty to another ballot.


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## Franko (19 Oct 2005)

:rofl:


I needed that. Bombardier could build their fleets of tanks and such.......

We need'nt worry....they'll fall apart before they cross the LOD!   ;D

Seriously...WTF is he smoking?

Regards


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## Roger (19 Oct 2005)

There are country's that have populations with less than 500,000 people who have armies, so if Quebec ever does separate with a population of 7.5 million I do not see the problem here.

But do not forget that this is coming from a separatist and all he is looking for is press, good or bad. And like Paris Hilton he wants to stay in the press, any publicity he can get is good, he also wants to keep the question of separation in the minds of Canadians and more so Quebecers, so all this rhetoric is just that, rhetoric.


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## Big T (19 Oct 2005)

Plus, keep in mind that Quebec has been trying to seperate for ever, and it has yet to happen!


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## onecat (19 Oct 2005)

Quebec could easily support a Military of 60,000 with a population of 7.5m.  If they did break off from Canada I have a feeling there is going to a lot of unemployeed people in Quebec, and joining the army would be very popular.  In fact it might be the shot on arm that rest of Canada needs to actaully put money in and keep in the CF, but apart from Ontario i don't see the west sticking around.  We've always run things from the center i.e Ontario and recently ( since the 1960's) Quebec and this has done nothing for making this a country from sea to sea; so if one the blocks falls out the whole thing fall down.  The only good thing i can think of to come out of it would be lose of feberal liberal party, could be worth it for that along. ;D


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## MOOO! (19 Oct 2005)

The separation issue is still a funny topic (why are they still on about it?). 

 Well make sure they take their share of National debt when they go,  But how will they organize their Military when they go?  We will take back all Canadian articles, equipment and facilities.  

All the infrastructure they would have to buy or rebuild might bankrupt them.  Lots to think about for the budding separatist in the military.


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## MdB (19 Oct 2005)

MOOO! said:
			
		

> Well make sure they take their share of National debt when they go,   But how will they organize their Military when they go?   We will take back all Canadian articles, equipment and facilities.
> 
> All the infrastructure they would have to buy or rebuild might bankrupt them.   Lots to think about for the budding separatist in the military.



As far as I know, people from Quebec pays taxes as much as any other Canadians. Thus, the Fed infrastructure belongs to Quebec too. Do the math...


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## George Wallace (19 Oct 2005)

As you brought up Taxes, why should Alberta and Ontario Taxpayers support Quebec along with the Maritimes, BC and Manitoba and Saskatchewan?  Quebec gets more than it pays.  

Like the child who leaves home, but still comes home to Mom for food and an allowance, not to mention to do its' dirty laundry.   ;D


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## Roger (19 Oct 2005)

You must understand the history in Quebec to understand everything that goes on there, there was three parties in Quebec in the 60's when the Parti Quebecois (PQ) came around and the Liberals where the party in power. In the mid 70's I voted for the PQ as many in Quebec did, not because of the separation issue, but mainly they where all young and where either journalists (like Ralph Klein), teachers or unionists and had a vision for Quebec aside from separation and the Liberals where just full of corruption at every turn, even the premiere at the time was caught favouring his family with road construction contract (remember the Olympics in Montreal).

So many people that brought them to power where not separatists but just angry at the political issues and coroption that was going on at the time. So a vote for the Block or the PQ does not equal separation, and from looking around I can say that there are less than 25% of the people that are true separatists, so you have to take what you hear with a grain of salt.


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## Cdn Blackshirt (19 Oct 2005)

MdB said:
			
		

> As far as I know, people from Quebec pays taxes as much as any other Canadians. Thus, the Fed infrastructure belongs to Quebec too. Do the math...



So does a proportional percentage of the Federal Debt.  Want to a bet that they plan on denying that little liability on their balance sheet?



Matthew.   :blotto:


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## Bruce Monkhouse (19 Oct 2005)

Keep it on the story topic, we have waaaay too many threads already on "he said, she said".


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## Sig_Des (19 Oct 2005)

IF Quebec did seperate, and IF they formed a military, what would that mean for serving CF Members who are either born or reside in Quebec?

How many of these members do you think would leave the CF to join a Quebec military?


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## Brad Sallows (19 Oct 2005)

>An independent Quebec would have its own military forces and spy service

Duh. I'm sure it'll have its own foreign service diplomats and dogcatchers, too.


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## Roger (19 Oct 2005)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> How many of these members do you think would leave the CF to join a Quebec military?



That is a tough question, but my question to you is (not knowing witch province you are from) what would you do if your province separated. I am sure if Alberta separated from Canada, that all of the people from Alberta would feel some loyalty to their Province of birth. I myself live in Quebec and I have no plans on moving to a other province, I am not a separatist and have my loyalty to Canada, but if I wanted to stay in Quebec and be part of the Forces, what would I do? This is a very hard question. But again, this is rhetoric and I do not see Quebec separating.


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## MdB (19 Oct 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As you brought up Taxes, why should Alberta and Ontario Taxpayers support Quebec along with the Maritimes, BC and Manitoba and Saskatchewan?   Quebec gets more than it pays.



That's the point of having the taxes transfers between the provinces, so the the whole Canada may be more equal and more united. Without that, you get deals one-to-one like the Fed. Liberals are doing lately and in my opinion, this is demolishing the country.

If Quebec would separate, it would get its share of infrastructure AND of depts. Anyway, as I once said, I see Alberta getting out before Quebec. I'd bet on that horse, or that bull... 

[EDIT]
Oh, and I would rather see taxes tranfers as it's done in Germany, directly from province to province. It would decentralize the whole thing, safe a lot of cash (that we could invest somewhere else...), would give more power to all provinces and we wouldn't see deals to keep power in Ottawa.
[/EDIT]



			
				Chop said:
			
		

> I myself live in Quebec and I have no plans on moving to a other province, I am not a separatist and have my loyalty to Canada, but if I wanted to stay in Quebec and be part of the Forces, what would I do? This is a very hard question. But again, this is rhetoric and I do not see Quebec separating.



Same here. If find it somewhat a catch 22... let's forget about that for now.


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## Sig_Des (19 Oct 2005)

hmm. Interesting.I was born in Quebec, and the majority of my family resides there. But I also consider myself a Canadian, who takes great stock in the French-Canadian influence...this is hopefully something we never face


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## honestyrules (19 Oct 2005)

Listen guys!

I'm french and I don't care about what Duceppe says!



> Mr. Duceppe acknowledged those demands, while criticizing the federal government for rushing out to buy new military equipment without clearly defining what it wants the Canadian Armed Forces to do.



He's on crack!
We need those chinooks and cargo planes. If we rush, it's because we know what we lack and need bad. Plus, we need the gear for a long time. Creating jobs with those procurements? Blah, Blah, Blah... We need the gear, period.

I'm Canadian, and proud of it. He could stick that army up is.....


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## Infanteer (19 Oct 2005)

Quebec would never survive a split - succession from Canada would give equal moral imperitive to the Native peoples of the province's resource rich North who voted overwhelmingly "Non" (90 percentile and up) in 1995.   We saw this in the US Civil War with West Virginia (an area that strongly opposed succession) seperating from Virginia and becoming the 35th state in the Union.  All that would be left would be a poor but noisy strip along the St Lawrence river....


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## The_Falcon (19 Oct 2005)

Hypothetically, if they were to seperate, I don't see them having to build to much infrastructure to support the "Quebec Army", The will have a very large recruit school (The Mega), a large army base (Valcartier), an air base (Bagotville), and a supply depot (25CFSD in Montreal).  I mean yes the CF can pull most of its people and equipment out, but this ain't Starcraft, you can't pick these bases up and move them somewhere else in the country.  Which brings me to where would we train CF recruits, we don't have any other large scale training facility anywhere else in the country.


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## Infanteer (19 Oct 2005)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Hypothetically, if they were to seperate, I don't see them having to build to much infrastructure to support the "Quebec Army", The will have a very large recruit school (The Mega), a large army base (Valcartier), an air base (Bagotville), and a supply depot (25CFSD in Montreal).   I mean yes the CF can pull most of its people and equipment out, but this ain't Starcraft, you can't pick these bases up and move them somewhere else in the country.   Which brings me to where would we train CF recruits, we don't have any other large scale training facility anywhere else in the country.



Reopen Cornwallis?  Expand in Gagetown?  Build a new facility?  Use your imagination (whiich is really all this entire thread is).


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## daniel h. (19 Oct 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Reopen Cornwallis?   Expand in Gagetown?   Build a new facility?   Use your imagination (whiich is really all this entire thread is).




Though it is an area which is now quite poulated, Downsview in Toronto could still be taken back.

As for Duceppe, he of course ignores the fact that two-thirds of Quebec was Hudson's Bay Company Land, READ ENGLISH CANADIAN, and that Montreal is the primary economic engine of Quebec and Montreal is federalist.

Quebec would have less economic clout, less security, WAY less land, no military, and an uncertain future if they separated.

This being said, if it weren't for the international one-world globalist ideals of our governing parties, Quebec would likely never support separatism much at all.

There are many anglophones in Quebec, though they have been leaving for 200 years.....Duceppe is a cultural marxist and a corporate stooge like everyone else. He cares little for the so-called "Quebecois", more about his electoral success.


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## Zartan (19 Oct 2005)

daniel h. said:
			
		

> and that Montreal is the primary economic engine of Quebec and Montreal is federalist.



Indeed, and just how many of Montreal's businesses are either crown corporations or directly supported by the Federal Government? To elaborate, what would the chances be of Air Canada sticking around in Montreal after separation, or the Feds keeping their nice offices in Gatineau open, for example. 

Besides look at Quebec's budget - when was the last time they ran a budget surplus? They have the largest sub-federal debt in the country. Once they receive their portion of the national debt, imagine how much interest they'll be charged. Also, I doubt there will be much invester confidence in a Free Quebec after separation, or after the federal businesses begin a great exodus.

And of course there's the natives...

But also, when it comes down to military infrastructure, sure there will be bases aplenty to be had, but will there be anything left in them. I don't think the Feds will leave a wing of CF-18s at Bagotville for the separatists, and I doubt they'll have the cash to equip their own fully equipped military force.


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## blacktriangle (19 Oct 2005)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> IF Quebec did seperate, and IF they formed a military, what would that mean for serving CF Members who are either born or reside in Quebec?
> 
> How many of these members do you think would leave the CF to join a Quebec military?



Didn't everyone sign up to serve Canada, though? If it means moving a couple hours in either direction, I wouldn't see why anyone would give up the country they serve.


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## Seaman_Navy (19 Oct 2005)

I'm from Quebec and I serve in the navy and I would not leave the canadian forces to serve in Quebec. Never!


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## sheikyerbouti (19 Oct 2005)

For starters, these are statements that refer to an upcoming policy conference. 
 Should there ever be the chance that Quebec secedes from the Canadian confederation, there is a high probability that this sovereign government would choose to abrogate its' debt responsibilities since they would no longer recognize their fiduciary relationship with Canada. The new administration would have a hell of a time trying to negotiate new fiscal arrangements but there might be a few nations which would support Quebec's newfound independence.

 The issue of native territorial claims is complex but suffice to say that if Quebec negotiated a fiscal agreement which was better than the current Federal model, there would be a chance that some groups might see otherwise and take their chances in a new   arrangement. Let's face it, the Federal government is not serving the Native community well and has never done a good   job so why should these people expect things to get better. If Quebec were to grant autonomy and resource control as well as proportional representation, it might be   enough to bring these nations to the table.

Seizing Federal assets would be underhanded and not viewed favourably so should the eventuality of secession arise, the Federal government would negotiate for an orderly withdrawal. Chances are this would be among the first items to be discussed at the table from the perspective of nation to nation conference as opposed to the past Federal-Provincial relationship.

There is very much the likelihood of future votes on the issue of separatism but the leadership and ideas of these Nationalist groups are changing and with these changes there has been a temperance of their extremist values with a shift towards more centralized issues of importance to a greater number of constituents than traditionally support them. Health care and education are taking over from concerns like independence and loss of cultural identity.

On a personal level, I feel very strongly that as long as there is a minority government situation in Parliament, then there is a lesser chance that we would see an assertion of sovereigntist   sentiment. That is to say, as long as Quebeckers feel they are being represented there is virtually no chance of secession.

What's most important is that we as individuals learn about each other so that we no longer hear outrageous ideas like Alberta is going to separate before Quebec, or that we would fight each other over thousands of square kilometres of bug ridden forests. Canada is a big country, almost too big for us, so we lose some of our our commonality along the way.


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## 1R22eR (19 Oct 2005)

MY ANSWER:

                       

I'm canadian first... the name "Quebec" is only a f***** adress...​
sorry for my english im french CANADIAN  ​


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## KevinB (19 Oct 2005)

Whats the big deal.


 I'm sure when Alberta seperates it will have its own Army too...


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## Cloud Cover (19 Oct 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Whats the big deal.
> 
> 
> I'm sure when Alberta seperates it will have its own Army too...



It already does. And an air farce.


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## geo (19 Oct 2005)

from the puzzle palace I say:.... 100% in agrement with ya Kevin!

Gawd I hate it when some of these politicians opens up his effin fat yap and jaws about a subject just because he's looking for air time and trying to bait the gov't to "bite" on the subject.

Mr Duceppe and his cronies will be entitled to a Federal Pension when they are voted out of office or retire...... a very generous pension I might add!

Like any balance sheet, Quebec owns and owes it's share of Canada assets & LIABILITIES. To be honest, I have always heard em say that they would negociate (which means it'll take forever)... 

Last General who indicated that, If Quebec seperated he would be willing to consider becoming their 1st Chief of Staff had his career get cut real short...... great doubt that anyone would be silly enough to speak out on the musings of Mr Duceppe.... and if they want spys.... be my guest.

well.... this'll be the last time I come into this thread.... don't need the agravation of anglo / franco bashing that always appear to get drawn to this kind of subject.

Chimo!


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## Wolfe (20 Oct 2005)

Vandooze said:
			
		

> I'm canadian first... the name "Quebec" is only a f***** adress...​



SAME HERE

I am from Quebec and if Quebec separates from Canada i am not staying ....and i am sure that the Canadian army will ask the soldiers if they want to quit and stay or move from Quebec and stay Canadian soldiers.....i will never let down my country CANADA NEVER.

Wolf


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## onecat (20 Oct 2005)

"Quebec would never survive a split - succession from Canada would give equal moral imperitive to the Native peoples of the province's resource rich North who voted overwhelmingly "Non" (90 percentile and up) in 1995."

You bring up a pick here, only if the native find this moral imperitive in quebec they also find it in the rest of Canada.   there are huge area in all provivnces the have land claims. Those land claims have seen little action in the courts, and native dischantment with Canada is felt equally in all provinces, so it could led a break of canada in more ways than one.   If quebec can break its contact with canada, then pretty much any native treaty can be broken.


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## Ex-Pat Army (20 Oct 2005)

Quebecer indicates he would like to form own army. Is this not sedition?


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## larry Strong (20 Oct 2005)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> It already does. And an air farce.



Really, All I have ever seen here is the Canadian Army and Air Force!


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## Black Watch (20 Oct 2005)

As a queberker (not a separatist) . If independent Québec has an army, trust me, it will be unionized, unefficient, unprepared with noone to serve in. I don't believe mr "I'm better than the rest of you" Duceppe


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## Zarathustra (20 Oct 2005)

Wow, that's a lot of hostilities towards separatists. I don't think it's needed. Those people don't want to separate from Canada, they want to separate from Ottawa. Basically they think they would be happier if they could manage all of their money, buy their own things and have their own army. Kind of like a teen who wants to leave his parent house and move to its own place. As someone pointed out, Canada would save perequation money should it happen. The only bad thing I see for Canada is it would lose a few players on the national hockey team but that's it.


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## Old Ranger (20 Oct 2005)

Ex-Pat Army said:
			
		

> Quebecer indicates he would like to form own army. Is this not sedition?



Too bad it's not looked at as treason, And too bad there not subject to the QR&O's.

Unless some one knows a loop hole?

FLQ crisis, CFB Petawawa....Don't you think the CF is prepared for separation attempts?


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## Daidalous (20 Oct 2005)

"IF" they ever manage to separate,  and "IF" the province can stay together when that happens,  they can do want ever they want.  I do think Quebec will take it's share of the debt,  why do you ask, cause if they don't and piss of  the rest of Canada, we *could* block there entry into NAFTA  and NATO as a form of protest    What really worries me is that there is a possibility of a civil war.( And do not say there is not, there are to many things that can go wrong.  Just look at what happened to the US and England during there civil  wars)  I know for myself I would find it very difficult to have to deal with that situation.


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## Roger (20 Oct 2005)

This is what Duceppe wants, the kind of posts that are going on here, it is all just rhetoric. He is a separatist and that is all he wants, he wants Quebec to separate. He will say anything to achieve this. Never mind all of the chat on if Quebec will survive, or the first nations will not accept it, or the southern Quebecers will not go with the rest of Quebec. He just wants to create more separatists. He can achieve this in many way's, one is by what I am reading here in the forums. How many of you are angered by the thought of any of this is happening, now how many of you could possibly take it out on a French Canadian Quebecer. Someone who just stops and asks for directions in Edmonton, Windsor or Richmond and all he or she hears is that Quebecers are all separatists or F&*% Frenchman, instead of a friendly smile, what would this achieve, nothing. It could create other separatists who feels he does not belong with the rest of Canada.

So back to the point at hand, I would ignore anything that comes out of Mr. Duceppe's mouth, it has no bearing what so ever on Canada's future. He just wants the press or publicity and to create an attitude of hatred or unrest and to create more separatist to help advance his cause, lets not give him that.

On a last note, I joined the forces because I wanted to be a soldier, if I was born in France I would be a French soldier, if I was born in England I would be a British soldier. I am a reservist and if Quebec (I know that this will never happen) was to separate and I wanted to stay a soldier, my choices are to move out of Quebec or stay and become a Quebec soldier or to not be a soldier and to leave the Forces. A, B or C. What would any of you do if your province separated, never mind Quebec. It is a tough question. But a question I am sure that none of us will ever have to answer.

So if you ever see a French Canadian, shake his hand and say "hi there fellow Canadian" and take away what Duceppe wants.


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## KevinB (20 Oct 2005)

Albertans getting ready  ;D


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## armyvern (20 Oct 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Albertans getting ready   ;D



OMG KevinB

 :rofl:

PS: Does that stand for Princess Patricia's American Light Infantry??  :


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## KevinB (20 Oct 2005)

Princess Patricia's Albertan Light Infantry   ;D

 With oil revenue the Alberta Republic Gov't can also equipt the LdSH(RA) {Royal Albertan} with M1A2 Abrams... 






*for those w/o a sense of humour I am not a seperatist (Quebec or Albertan) but am attempting to lighten the mood here.
As I said before while I want Quebec to remain in Canada -- if they did decide to seperate I would not begrudge them an army.


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## Cloud Cover (20 Oct 2005)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Really, All I have ever seen here is the Canadian Army and Air Force!



They invaded Innisfail?


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## Old Ranger (20 Oct 2005)

Daidalous said:
			
		

> What really worries me is that there is a possibility of a civil war.( And do not say there is not, there are to many things that can go wrong.



There is always a possibility for anything.

However; this has been a long standing issue.   If it were going to happen it would have already.   Separatist politicians are just politicians.   They all know there would never be enough support to make it happen.   Would the rest of Canada come to aide of Quebecers that are opposed to Separation?  Sure they would.   Not saying there might be a hidden agena to rewrite certain Quebec Policies during the Liberation of Canadians born in Quebec.

And CHOP, it goes both ways.   When I've been in Montreal, I have to start out with "Je ne parle pa, eh compre pa Frances; parle vous Englass" (Please excuse the spelling); in order not to get the "French cold shoulder."   But as you state it's the same accross Canada and we all have to make a difference.

My Cottage is in "Occupied Canada", and I won't give it up or my French Canadian Friends that easily.

P.S.   I was no where near St. Catherines Street ;D


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## Black Watch (20 Oct 2005)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> Too bad it's not looked at as treason, And too bad there not subject to the QR&O's.
> 
> Unless some one knows a loop hole?
> 
> FLQ crisis, CFB Petawawa....Don't you think the CF is prepared for separation attempts?


Troops deployed in Montreal during the October èCrisis were from Mobile Force hq, CFB Saint-Hubert, 1 kilometer form the house in wich was kept Pierre Laporte


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## Black Watch (20 Oct 2005)

Chop said:
			
		

> This is what Duceppe wants, the kind of posts that are going on here, it is all just rhetoric. He is a separatist and that is all he wants, he wants Quebec to separate. He will say anything to achieve this. Never mind all of the chat on if Quebec will survive, or the first nations will not accept it, or the southern Quebecers will not go with the rest of Quebec. He just wants to create more separatists. He can achieve this in many way's, one is by what I am reading here in the forums. How many of you are angered by the thought of any of this is happening, now how many of you could possibly take it out on a French Canadian Quebecer. Someone who just stops and asks for directions in Edmonton, Windsor or Richmond and all he or she hears is that Quebecers are all separatists or F&*% Frenchman, instead of a friendly smile, what would this achieve, nothing. It could create other separatists who feels he does not belong with the rest of Canada.
> 
> So back to the point at hand, I would ignore anything that comes out of Mr. Duceppe's mouth, it has no bearing what so ever on Canada's future. He just wants the press or publicity and to create an attitude of hatred or unrest and to create more separatist to help advance his cause, lets not give him that.
> 
> ...


Who told you that southern Quebec would separate from the rest of Quebec. I live there (south of Montreal) and its the storng hold for separatists...


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## onecat (20 Oct 2005)

"Princess Patricia's Albertan Light Infantry  

 With oil revenue the Alberta Republic Gov't can also equipt the LdSH(RA) {Royal Albertan} with M1A2 Abrams... "


kevin, what makes you think if the Aberta broke away from canada. they would get to keep either the PPCLI or LdSH?  What ever was left of canada would just move to the Regments to ever where they were needed.


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## Jungle (20 Oct 2005)

radiohead said:
			
		

> kevin, what makes you think if the Aberta broke away from canada. they would get to keep either the PPCLI or LdSH?


I thought he made it clear with this statement:


> *for those w/o a sense of humour I am not a seperatist (Quebec or Albertan) but am attempting to lighten the mood here.


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## KevinB (20 Oct 2005)

Uhm -- radiohead -- dude check out what Jungle highlighted from my post...


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## onecat (21 Oct 2005)

I missed it...  sorry Dude


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Oct 2005)

Its OK, its not often you get to watch a 100% "swing and a miss" like that....


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## edadian (21 Oct 2005)

I'm a Canadian I want to seperate Canada from the provinces.

Can someone tell me why it takes more paperwork and hassle to move between Canadian provinces than it does between European countries?

Alberta would buy Abrams? What they don't want main battle tanks?


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## Slim (21 Oct 2005)

edadian said:
			
		

> I'm a Canadian I want to seperate Canada from the provinces.
> 
> Can someone tell me why it takes more paperwork and hassle to move between Canadian provinces than it does between European countries?
> 
> Alberta would buy Abrams? What they don't want main battle tanks?



Pease tell me that the above post was done in really bad humour...If not you may wish to change your log in name as I would be too embarrassed to use the one you have after the above post!


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## Roger (21 Oct 2005)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> And CHOP, it goes both ways.   When I've been in Montreal, I have to start out with "Je ne parle pa, eh compre pa Frances; parle vous Englass" (Please excuse the spelling); in order not to get the "French cold shoulder."   But as you state it's the same accross Canada and we all have to make a difference.



Yes there are unpleasent people every where, I for one have never done that. I have met some very unpleasent people in BC, Ontario and Alberta and I did not stryke them all with the same paint brush, you can decide to let it go on, or stop it by not doing it yourself. I must also tell you, if I meet a Quebecer being rude to a non Quebecer in Quebec I also stand in and give crap to the Quebecer for being an a@$.

Yes, you are right, it is the same for all of us across Canada, and let not give the seperatists the tool of hatred that htey need to further there cause....

But again, Mr. Duceppe is a politicion and is only looking to create the hatred and anger for his cause.


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## geo (21 Oct 2005)

Ahhh....
Chop has noticed that Mr Duceppe was fishing

and the fishies are a biting......


(musing to myself - does this thread really have to go on ad nauseum?)


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## karpovage (21 Oct 2005)

Since this is directly related to this topic I'd like to pass on a novel I wrote in 2003 titled Flashpoint Quebec. www.flashpointquebec.com  I've advertised my book on this website in the past and have gotten great reviews from Canadian and U.S. Army personnel who have read it, including the owner and some mediators of this site. Essentially, it's a hypothetical "what if" scenario of Quebec indeed seceeding, obtaining M1Abrams tanks, and creating a Quebec Defense Force to defend against an aggressive posture from the Canadian federal government. A U.S. military task force is called in under the NATO umbrella to act in a supporting role for the CA but then find themselves in a fierce infantry vs. tank urban battle in Trois Rivieres.

It's not a farfetched scenario in the least especially when Duceppe is actually talking about a revival of separatist sentiments. 

Anyway, there was a good forum discussion about the book at http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/4563.0.html under the Military Literature heading if you are interested in learning more.


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## Roger (21 Oct 2005)

Karpovage said:
			
		

> It's not a farfetched scenario in the least especially when Duceppe is actually talking about a revival of separatist sentiments.



Living in Quebec I can say that it is not a revival, this goes on all the time in Quebec. Maybe that is why most Quebecers have a thick skin to this kind of talk. But again he is for looking for press and would love nothing more than to have the rest of the provinces hate Quebecers, it would add to his hopes of more separatist in Quebec, so I do not take what he says as fact. Just more publicity for his cause. Lets not give him the tools.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Oct 2005)

I agree, this topic has never stayed on course, and probably won't anyway soooo.....


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## RecDiver (30 Oct 2005)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051029.wduceppe1029/BNStory/National/

A scary thought and move in my opinion...


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## daniel h. (30 Oct 2005)

RecDiver said:
			
		

> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051029.wduceppe1029/BNStory/National/
> 
> A scary thought and move in my opinion...




I strongly believe that if the federal Liberals, Conservatives and others had been stronger leaders over the years, this issue would be less of a problem, if not completely gone.

Just remember, Gilles Ducppe is likely in his last election campaign or two, and turned down a run at the Parti Quebecois leadership. He is a washed up politician.

Remember, as crazy as we are for not defending ourselves better, the Parti Quebecois provincially is the party that would trigger a referendum. It doesn't matter how many seats Gilles Duceppe wins in Ottawa--he could win all 75 and he still can't call a referendum.

Of course he'd want a separate army, but most army personnel are separatists. Support fpr sovereignty has always gone up and down, and is manipulated by thepress.

One question, does anyone think the main military training facility in northern Quebec should be moved back to Ontario? Wouldn't that be better?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (30 Oct 2005)

Re-opened, but hanging by a thread, KEEP IT ON THE TOPIC.:argument:


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## Armymedic (30 Oct 2005)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> IF Quebec did seperate, and IF they formed a military, what would that mean for serving CF Members who are either born or reside in Quebec?
> 
> How many of these members do you think would leave the CF to join a Quebec military?



I was in Borden doing my QL 3 10 yrs ago. Right across the hall in T139 was the French Medic QL 3 and next door over a French Log QL 3 (clerks or supply I can't remember). I distinctly remember the build up on that day, with a couple Bilingual medics coming across the hall to sit with us because they could not sit in their mods anymore for all the Separatist crap (read celebrating) that was going on. The next am there was general disappointment amongst the French courses. 

Buddies who came across with us the night before told us that 15 or more of the students from that course were ready to go home to join the Quebec Armed forces if they called. Needless to say there was much tension in our area of the building.

So if you think that all Quebec Soldiers think the same as those who posted (and I commend those of you who did post), think again.


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## daniel h. (30 Oct 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> For even speaking about that those troops should have been court-martialed and then tossed out of the CF. Thats disgusting.




Yeah it is....I wonder why they think a Marxist like Duceppe would protect their heritage anyway?!

I'd like to see there Tibetan military defend them from whoever....would anyone be surprised to the American military come and "restore order in a failed state?" > I guess the onlt question is whether they would leave afterwards.


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## 3rd Horseman (30 Oct 2005)

I hear the CDR is recruiting, Canadian Defense Regiment anyone? ;D

I love Quebec and its french culture I hope they chose to stay when the time comes if ever, those that want to leave can get free passage to the docks, thats what Wolfs command offered them, I say we offer it again just in case we missed a few die hards way back when.


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## TheNomad (31 Oct 2005)

My personal view is that if Quebec ever did decide to betray Canada not one serviceable piece of equipment or stone of any Federal building should be left standing. Traitors do not deserve in "inherit" anything at all. If they want to have an army, then they will have to pay for it.

If anyone thinks that the new country of Quebec would ever agree to take on part of the national debt is severely misguided.


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## Roger (31 Oct 2005)

Well this is exactly the kind of talk that I like to hear, as a French Canadian living in Canada. I thought this was a free country where as Canadian soldiers we go all over the world to help people suffering from tyrants. 

I for one never hear much about separation in the forces in Quebec, remember the vote was 52% against 48% so if you think it is a hot topic in the rest of Canada try being in Quebec when it gets heated, and most times it relatives.

Duceppe wants nothing more than to help create hatred and negative talk about Quebecers to prove that we cannot live together, I find things written like â Å“free passage to the docks, that's what Wolfs command offered themâ Å“ or â Å“troops should have been court-martialedâ Å“ offensive.

This is what he wants, discord and negative thoughts to feed his wish to see Quebec separate, imagine if a seperatist newspaper got access to this sight and posted some of the reply's. Food for thought....


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## TheNomad (31 Oct 2005)

That is the point of free speech.  If people can advocate the separation of their province - others can legitimately have their contrary views too.

I do not believe it is wrong to have such a political view.  However, as soon as the first actual step is taken, any member of the Canadian Army who is willing to vote for Quebec's Independence should leave. The armed forces and Canada have a right to demand your complete loyalty.  If you cannot give it unreservedly then you should not be a member of the Canadian Army. As someone who is British I personally would never, ever be able to give any loyalty to the EU, and as such I would not be willing to be a loyal member of any form of EU army.

As a matter of interest I often hear comments from a number of Canadians who wish Quebec would go and get lost from the rest of Canada.


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## Roger (31 Oct 2005)

TheNomad said:
			
		

> As a matter of interest I often hear comments from a number of Canadians who wish Quebec would go and get lost from the rest of Canada.



Thanks for the update.......

The exact thing that are said that Duceppe wants to hear and see posted on sights all over Canada.


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## Jarnhamar (31 Oct 2005)

Lets hope if Quebec seperates Duceppe isn't an asshole and puts a copywrite on poutine


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## geo (31 Oct 2005)

TheNomad said:
			
		

> That is the point of free speech.   If people can advocate the separation of their province - others can legitimately have their contrary views too.
> 
> As a matter of interest I often hear comments from a number of Canadians who wish Quebec would go and get lost from the rest of Canada.



Would venture to say that the people you are hearing are those who are just tired of hearing the rhetoric going on, ad nauseum.....
Would venture to say that, in the UK, there were a lot of people who had the same feeling about Northern Ireland... after that thing went on and on and on... 

Mr Duceppe as a long time MP will be entitled to his Pension from the Federal Gov't.
guess he might have to sue to get it - if he gets his wish.....

Note that Mr Duceppe has no power in Federal politics other than his big fat mouth...
In this instance; he's fishing for reactions. The bigger the knee jerk reaction from the people, the better.

A real way to piss him and his ilk off is to simply ignore them..... Hmmm?... what was that noise?... what was that unpleasant smell?.... not important.


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## Roger (31 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Note that Mr Duceppe has no power in Federal politics other than his big fat mouth...
> In this instance; he's fishing for reactions. The bigger the knee jerk reaction from the people, the better.
> 
> A real way to piss him and his ilk off is to simply ignore them..... Hmmm?... what was that noise?... what was that unpleasant smell?.... not important.



Merci! Thank you very much for that reply, my point exactly..........,


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## Daidalous (31 Oct 2005)

I like to go by one little phrase when ever I hear anyone talk about Quebec separating.  I will believe it when I see it.   From my point of view it seem like when a little kid threaten to hold his breath if he doesn't get what he wants.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (31 Oct 2005)

Once again this has ventured away from the topic of "Ducept" stating that he wants a Quebec army and into more blah, blah, blah,.....so this one is locked and staying that way this time.


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