# Is this the "new" MLVW??



## Scoobie Newbie (13 Dec 2008)

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/site/avant_garde/images_e.asp


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## DirtyDog (13 Dec 2008)

The Stirling is a garrison admin vehicle.

2WD and useless off-road.


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Dec 2008)

IIRC there is also a 4WD  version but equally useless.


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## chrisf (13 Dec 2008)

The model in the picture is just a basic stirling truck painted green with a TCV bed, if I remember right, about $70 000.

There's a 4wd and a 2wd version. Not terrible trucks, just need decent tires and some brush gaurds to make it a viable COTS purchase for the army.  They'll even paint them in CARC and stick blackout lights on them if you ask (The copy of the LTSO I managed to find had expired a year earlier, and no one answered any of the phone numbers listed, either at PWSGC or at Stirling, but it's the starting point for our hunt to get some useable trucks. Adding a troop carry bed, CARC paint, blackout lights, and a few other bells and whistles brought the total cost to about $100 000)


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## DirtyDog (13 Dec 2008)

Oh yeah, it's a decent garrison truck.  Smooth and quiet.  A lot nicer to ride in then an ML.  Never ran across a 4wd version.

An MLVW replacement it is not however.


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## chrisf (13 Dec 2008)

Just because you've never run acrsso them doesn't mean they don't exist. I've personally seen three different versions purchased by the CF.

Stirling definitly makes a 4wd version, and even a 6wd version.

There's a rather lengthy list of options on the LTSO through which they were purchased, including a militarized version (CARC paint as opposed to just green, bush gaurds, NATO slave recepticles etc).

They're used by all sorts of logging companies, constructions companies, etc, in all sorts of rough terrain. Through some decent all-terrain tires underneath them, and you've got a viable replacement for the MLVW.


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Dec 2008)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, it's a decent garrison truck.  Smooth and quiet.  A lot nicer to ride in then an ML.  Never ran across a 4wd version.
> 
> An MLVW replacement it is not however.



IIRC the 4wd version has the troop box off the HL (modified though)


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## chrisf (13 Dec 2008)

It might be off the HL, but more likely, it was just bought with the TCV bed option. Probably just looks similar to the HL bed.

Like I said, it's all in the LTSO (Long term standing offer). You just say "I want this feature, this feature, this feature" check the boxes (Each of which has a price listed beside it), come up with the budget, and PWSGC goes to the company, comes back with the truck (s).


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Dec 2008)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> It might be off the HL, but more likely, it was just bought with the TCV bed option. Probably just looks similar to the HL bed.
> 
> Like I said, it's all in the LTSO (Long term standing offer). You just say "I want this feature, this feature, this feature" check the boxes (Each of which has a price listed beside it), come up with the budget, and PWSGC goes to the company, comes back with the truck (s).



No worries there, just relaying information that I got from 3 ASG  TN COY - FD SP PL and their Maintenance Shop at K-1.


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## chrisf (13 Dec 2008)

Anything's possible.

I did a fair bit of looking into these stirling trucks a few months ago as part of a fiendshly clever plot to get some (We'll see how that works out).


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## DirtyDog (13 Dec 2008)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Just because you've never run acrsso them doesn't mean they don't exist. I've personally seen three different versions purchased by the CF.
> 
> Stirling definitly makes a 4wd version, and even a 6wd version.
> 
> ...


Yeah, never said they didn't exist, only that i haven't come across them.

I've never really looked too indepth at them, but they just come across as a little "light" duty for an ML replacement.  Despite it's age and other shortcoming's, the ML is one hell of a rugged truck.


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Dec 2008)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Yeah, never said they didn't exist, only that i haven't come across them.
> 
> I've never really looked too indepth at them, but they just come across as a little "light" duty for an ML replacement.  Despite it's age and other shortcoming's, the ML is one hell of a rugged truck.



Well you are comparing a purpose built military truck versus a commercial chassis with some modifications.


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## chrisf (13 Dec 2008)

All things considered, the MLs have more then paid their dues, I haven't had even a fraction of the number of problems with MLs I've had with LSVWs. I've also never *personally* managed to get one stuck (Though I generally have the good sense not to bring them places they can't go... to quote a sergeant-major in waintwright "And what was he doing there to being with?" after transport had managed to get a civillian pattern pickup, two HLVWs, and a civillian wrecker stuck. If I remember right, they ended up having to use some sort of ARV to get the whole mess out)

The stirlings could definitly hold their own against the MLs though, and while they might not be the ideal replacement for the ML across the board, if the army wants to go the with the silly plan of MILCOTS replacement for the ML for the reserves, the stirling trucks aren't a terrible option... primarly because they're extremely standard as far as "work" trucks go civillian side, so maintenance and parts should be easy to obtain... as long as they learn from the "MILCOT' (LUVW) problems... primarily, buy us decent tires!!!!!


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Dec 2008)

One thing the tires on the Stirling tucks is that they used two different types of tires on their trucks.

For example I am familiar with the 8-Ton Sterling Dump (Reserves are the only one with these). The front has ballon stearing tires while the intermediate and rear axles have more aggressive driving tires.

The one draw back I have with these trucks is the lack of spare tires mount on the vehicle. As you can see you would need to different tires on it.


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## gaspasser (13 Dec 2008)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> One thing the tires on the Stirling tucks is that they used two different types of tires on their trucks.
> 
> For example I am familiar with the *8-Ton Sterling Dump * (Reserves are the only one with these). The front has ballon stearing tires while the intermediate and rear axles have more aggressive driving tires.
> 
> The one draw back I have with these trucks is the lack of spare tires mount on the vehicle. As you can see you would need to different tires on it.



Mind sending me the ECC for that?  Because here in Trenton and most AF Wings,  have 6 tandum dumps.  Two have the wing plow and 2 for dumping and two in spreader config.  And who cares about the spare tire mount! That's what the vehicle techs are for...LOL  (no insult intended towards EME)  ;D


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Dec 2008)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Mind sending me the ECC for that?  Because here in Trenton and most AF Wings,  have 6 tandum dumps.  Two have the wing plow and 2 for dumping and two in spreader config.  And who cares about the spare tire mount! That's what the vehicle techs are for...LOL  (no insult intended towards EME)  ;D



There are two verisons of the Sterling Dump in the system (I think). The ones in Trenton and the Wings are the Yellow ones (right?) and those I believe are straight of the shelf. The Reserve Engineer Units got the militerized version which have a smaller box and a chopped chassis (IIRC) will have to check the specs when I get back to the unit in Jan.


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## chrisf (13 Dec 2008)

Don't know how it works in the airforce, but the army does this thing called "driving". The further you "drive" the further recovery has to "drive" to fix your vehicle. If it's going to be a sufficiently long wait for recovery, some times we even have to "walk" and "carry" things.


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## gaspasser (13 Dec 2008)

Aaah, yes, I remeber those days waiting for recovery for a break down...and changing tires on 5 ton diesels and the old duece and a halfs...by jumping up and down and the wheel wrench with a pipe on it...
You'd be amazed at how much EME takes away from drivers in the AF...

 ;D {being cheezy here}   ;D
Don't know about you, but I don't drive.....I operate... 8)


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## Colin Parkinson (14 Dec 2008)

OD green painted civilian pattern trucks are very common in the armies of most 3rd world countries. Generally the positive that these trucks have over the ML is more cargo space, the ML would normally bulk out before the load gets to heavy. The problem we have for using civilian pattern trucks is that the CF seems to like to keep a vehicle for 15-25years before replacement. Your average logging company or business often turns a fleet over every 5 years. These trucks are built more to that customer.


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## chrisf (14 Dec 2008)

There's plenty of heavy civillian pattern trucks still rolling left from the 80s;

A logging company uses it's fleet CONSISTENTLY off-road (Or at least on roads so rough they might as well be off-road), whereas a reserve unit seldom uses it's vehicle off-road, but MUST have the capability to do so when it's called upon.

I see no reason a MILCOTS fleet of stirling trucks if purchased for the reserves couldn't last 15-20 years.

Not only are the current MLs dying, but there's a shortage of parts left to repair them, MILCOTS vehicles would have a commonality with civillian pattern vehicles, making getting spare parts easy, and maintenance easy.


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## chrisf (14 Dec 2008)

Note that I'd PREFER to have all the same SMP vehicles the reg force gets, but these are just my thoughts on MILCOTS options.


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## TN2IC (14 Dec 2008)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Don't know about you, but I don't drive.....I operate... 8)




No.. you crash into things... I operate.  >


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## McG (14 Dec 2008)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I see no reason a MILCOTS fleet of stirling trucks if purchased for the reserves couldn't last 15-20 years.
> 
> Not only are the current MLs dying, but there's a shortage of parts left to repair them, MILCOTS vehicles would have a commonality with civillian pattern vehicles, making getting spare parts easy, and maintenance easy.


The MLVW replacement is in the planning stages already.  While we are still far off from a particular vehicle being selected, I don't think the Army's best interests are in providing the reserves with a militarized civillian truck while fielding something different in the regular force. There is already enough of a training delta between the components, we don't need to further expand this by the addition of the driver, maintenance and weapon station skills for the entire B fleet.


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## Scoobie Newbie (14 Dec 2008)

Soooooooooooo in a nutshell the picture is wrong.  Thank you


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## Nfld Sapper (14 Dec 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Soooooooooooo in a nutshell the picture is wrong.  Thank you



Well I would say yes and no LWQ. These trucks are an interm vehicle IIRC.


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## dapaterson (14 Dec 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> The MLVW replacement is in the planning stages already.  While we are still far off from a particular vehicle being selected, I don't think the Army's best interests are in providing the reserves with a militarized civillian truck while fielding something different in the regular force. There is already enough of a training delta between the components, we don't need to further expand this by the addition of the driver, maintenance and weapon station skills for the entire B fleet.



Too late.  The plan is for a bifurcated fleet; SMP for deployed, COTS for domestic.  Not completely a Reg/Res split, but the SMP will never be seen at an Armoury.


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## KJK (15 Dec 2008)

It won't likely be a Sterling that they buy for the CF since Sterling is ceasing production on the 1 Mar 2009.  

KJK


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Dec 2008)

KJK said:
			
		

> It won't likely be a Sterling that they buy for the CF since Sterling is ceasing production on the 1 Mar 2009.
> 
> KJK



Source?


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## Spencer100 (16 Dec 2008)

The plant in St Thomas is closing.  Daimler is closing the whole division and brand.  Sterling has never lived up to the hope.  It was better run as Ford.  It was the largest class 7-8 production plant in Canada.  Navistar in Chatham and Paccar in Quebec is all that remain.  Mack is gone and Western Star is also....I bet some on this site would have something to say about them.  WS is also Daimler.


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Dec 2008)

So we bought more orphaned kit again  : great


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## gaspasser (16 Dec 2008)

Mr Plow said:
			
		

> No.. you crash into things... I operate.  >


Sorry, you're thinking of my brother!
I am a HE op...and I'm not heavy!   LOL
BYTD


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## Spencer100 (16 Dec 2008)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> So we bought more orphaned kit again  : great



Freightliner (Daimler) will service for the at least the next ten years. Thousands and thousands in service across Canada and US.

It is a shame another plant is closing in Canada.   Sterling St. Thomas was the brand.  1500 people worked there.  We will soon not have much in manufacturing in Canada.


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## TN2IC (16 Dec 2008)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Sorry, you're thinking of my brother!
> I am a HE op...and I'm not heavy!   LOL
> BYTD



Like my sayin.. eh?


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## geo (16 Dec 2008)

Must say that it took forever for the "new" stirling dump trucks to get delivered to the Reserve units.
Problem with the balance point on the box VS the flatbed on which it sat.  IIRC it delayed their delivery by 2 or 3 years.
However, now that they are in service - they are reasonnably good trucks.


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Dec 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Must say that it took forever for the "new" stirling dump trucks to get delivered to the Reserve units.
> Problem with the balance point on the box VS the flatbed on which it sat.  IIRC it delayed their delivery by 2 or 3 years.
> However, now that they are in service - they are reasonnably good trucks.



Geo don't get me wrong about the dump it is a good truck for what its worth. Only on gravel or paved roads they are great, the moment you have to go off road they start to have problems.

EDITED TO ADD

Especially with a loaded heavy trailer.


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## geo (16 Dec 2008)

heh.... yeah, yeah..... I know.
Like I said, 2-3 years from date of purchase to date of delivery to FER units.

It is a decent truck, not a great truck IMHO

stuck In the field..... isn't that why you have the backhoe or bobcat on the trailer for >


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Dec 2008)

Yeah well some genuises decided that we didn't need it for that ex, so it was left on base. Besides the only reason that HE was brought out was to haul all the damn kill house pieces.


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