# Military History Degree



## Hasty P (2 Jun 2003)

I was wondering if there was such thing as a degree in MILITARY history or is there only a History degree which talks about everything including Military History.  If there is such thing does anyone know what Canadian Universities offer it?  Any replies would be appreciated, thanks.


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## Hasty P (2 Jun 2003)

Well I just read Danjanou‘s "outstanding" qualificatoins and noticed he actually has a degree in Military History.  Could you tell me where you earned your degree Danjanou?

Thanks


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## Danjanou (2 Jun 2003)

Memorial University of Newfoundland (1987). I started off taking a regular History degree, but several of the profs there pushed through a Military History option and a couple of us transferred over. The idea was to eventually offer a PHd in that discipline, but I don‘t think anyone took it that far.

I don‘t know if its still on the books as two of the four professors have passed on and the other two have retired. In fact knowing the political slant of the history dept there and their initial objection to it, I seriously doubt it.

Like I said it and two bucks mightget me a coffee at Tims or Second Cup. I don‘t use it (or one of the two double minors) in my day to day job.


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## tjmackey99 (2 Jun 2003)

Actually the University of New Brunswick has the Centre for Conflict Studies, they offer several different types of degree programs there. Including undergraduate and graduate programs ion military history. Good programs, good profs, interesting material. Check there website for more info.


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## Danjanou (2 Jun 2003)

Wouldn‘t surprise me. I bumped into a MUN Alumni last month who told me Dr. D. Facey-Crowther, who was one of the profs at MUN who set it up, is now at UNB. Plus the proximety to Gagetown would offer a source of at least P/T students interested.


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## muskrat89 (2 Jun 2003)

Actually, I took a Military History class at UNB - Professor was Mark Milner


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## Mike Bobbitt (2 Jun 2003)

Acadia U also offered a Military History program, but I see it‘s apparently been supplanted by a Woman‘s Studies degree...


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## Danjanou (2 Jun 2003)

Mike you have to spell that Wimmins Studies don‘t ya know. It wouldn‘t surprise me that is what has taken over at MUN too. When I left, the leftist clique in the faculty had just completed a coup and were running the place, the few old WW2 vets being shuffled off. Couldn‘t see them supporting formal courses in what they joyfully referred to (and I‘m not making this up) as "mercenary baby burning 101." 

Funny thing Memorial as the name implies was actually set up as a war memorial to Newfoundland‘s WW1 dead. The University colours of burgundy and french grey are the same as the Royal Newfoundland Regiment‘s. It‘s technically the largest war memorial in the country.


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## SNoseworthy (3 Jun 2003)

"Funny thing Memorial as the name implies was actually set up as a war memorial to Newfoundland‘s WW1 dead. The University colours of burgundy and french grey are the same as the Royal Newfoundland Regiment‘s. It‘s technically the largest war memorial in the country."

Yep, that‘s why its so sad. Memorial now only has ONE military history course. I was hoping to do a degree in history along with my engineering degree at MUN, but the history department is in very bad shape - even the Canadian History courses focus around minorities - aboriginals rights, and womens rights. It‘s all gone to ****  . I think I‘ll go to UNB for a military studies degree when I‘m finished up at MUN. 

It‘s pitiful that a university in honour of the RNFLDR has gone to ****  when it comes to military heritage. The thing I hate most about my fellow university students is that a vast majority of them are "social activists", which means the military history of Canada will never be of major priority for the university.


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## Danjanou (3 Jun 2003)

Scott, you went there too late. When I was there the "progressives" as the leftist called themselves were gaining ground but there were enough old guard profs like Alex Balisch, Jim Tague (both deceased), and George Shwartz, all of them WW2 vets to hold the line.

Head over to the Breezeway and hoist one for me will ya in remembrance of better times, or have they taken that MUN institution away to?


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## tjmackey99 (3 Jun 2003)

Hey muskrat89, I too had Mark Milner at UNB. He‘s pretty good, nice and relaxed and certainly knows his stuff. Good course planning on taking more of his stuff next year.     By the way I just finished all my paper work and swearing of allegience (sp?) now its off to IAP-BOTP June 23! Yippee, fun times ahead


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## SNoseworthy (3 Jun 2003)

Will do. The Breezeway is still there (in the new University Center now as the TSC is condemned and being turned into a new venue for INCO), however, since we never gave the Union their request for an extra $15 in fees each semester, they‘ve been cutting back on everything.


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## Michael Dorosh (4 Jun 2003)

University of Calgary has many military history classes; a friend of mine is getting his masters in military history.

I believe many universities call it "peace and conflict studies" or other pseudonyms like that.  Terry Copp out at Wilfred Laurier has a program in military history, does he not?


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## Jason Jarvis (6 Jun 2003)

Ahh, itâ€™s nice to shoot the sh!t with fellow â€œguns â€˜nâ€™ bombersâ€!

Acadia University did have a respected military history program until the unfortunate death of James Stokesbury. â€œStokesâ€ was killed in a car accident in the summer of 1994, and after his death things were never the same. William â€œBillâ€ Carter was brought in for the 1995 academic year, and Michael Ramsay for 1996. After Ramsay returned to Queens/RMC to finish his PhD, the program never recovered.

(Just as an aside, I highly recommend Stokesbury‘s "A Short History of ..." series of books. From the American Revolution to the Korean War, these are probably some of the best survey texts available on the major wars of the past two hundred years.)

Mike Ramsay was one of my Honours advisors in 1996, and he was great. Heâ€™s teaching at Kansas State now and just published his PhD in March. Itâ€™s called â€œCommand and Cohesion: The Citizen Soldier and Minor Tactics in the British Army, 1870-1918â€  (hardcover @ www.amazon.ca for $76). A friend of mine who read a pre-release version thought it was great.

I believe Terry Copp is semi-retired now, so Iâ€™m not sure what state the military history MA at Laurier is in. My wife was working on her PhD at Waterloo in the late 90s, and she thought it was starting to wind down. A friend of mine was one of Terryâ€™s last students, and he really enjoyed working with him. He actually went on to York to do a semi-military history PhD, but ran afoul of office politics and the realization that maybe he didnâ€™t actually want to be a professor, and he washed out during his comps.

Iâ€™ve always thought that Marc Milner is an excellent historian, as are all those on staff at Calgary. I was all set to do my MA at Calgary under John Ferris, but they wouldnâ€™t guarantee me any funding, so I ended up at Waterloo, where I studied early 20th century British foreign policy (specifically Lord Lansdowneâ€™s term as foreign secretary). If Stokesbury hadn‘t died, I probably would‘ve stuck with pure military history, instead of moving into the only slightly more politically correct field of international relations.

The problem with studying military history is that the job market is so small. If you donâ€™t move into museums, film-making, or â€œstrategic studiesâ€ the prospects of using your degree are pretty small -- and the DND Directorate of History is such a small group you really have to be well-connected to get even your toe in the door.

I donâ€™t even think the CF places much emphasis on traditional military history anymore, unlike West Point or Sandhurst. Another friend of mine completed his War Studies MA at RMC a few years back, and he had nothing but complaints for the history department. The clique in charge had re-focused on international relations at the expense of military history and strategy, and it (the department, that is) was not a exactly a nice place to work.

Thatâ€™s really too bad, because the RMC library is absolutely fabulous.


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## Danjanou (6 Jun 2003)

> The problem with studying military history is that the job market is so small. If you don’t move into museums, film-making, or “strategic studies” the prospects of using your degree are pretty small -- and the DND Directorate of History is such a small group you really have to be well-connected to get even your toe in the door.


Too true Jason, too true. Which is why I said I consider my degree in and of itself basically worthless (one of my minors in Sociology is actually more use in my presnt career). Basically the only present true application of that degree, a couple of published book reviews aside, is as unpaid moderator of the mil history forum here, and there are dozens of others here who could do the job as well, or better

The only other person to graduate the same year I did with Mil History (he was the Gold Medal winner for the dept BTW)went directly on to his MA and PhD as far as I know. Where and if he‘s working now I have no idea, but then its been 16 years I try and hide from the alumi especially the fund raisers.

As an aside I also briefly looked at the MA program at RMC in the early 1990‘s and found it lacking too. It would have been interesting in one way though. I would have been there as a civilian graduate student and if I remember correctly they were granted "honourary officer status" for mess privledges etc. As I was a Reserve Senior NCO that may have put someones panties in a bunch.


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## Jason Jarvis (6 Jun 2003)

If I‘d had any idea of where I‘d be now ten years ago, I probably would‘ve charged ahead and done a pure military history degree, instead of just dabbling in it.

I suppose the nice thing is that I *am* actually using the skills I learned in university -- researching, analyzing, writing and evaluating. If a career counsellor had told me an arts degree was good for something other than teaching, I probably would‘ve gone into PR a lot sooner than I did.

It‘s been six years now since I graduated, and I still miss school in a way. My wife‘s a teacher (she dropped out of her PhD when her funding ran out and she "happened" to get pregnant     ), and she loves it. So maybe that‘s where I‘ll go, too.

With my eyesight they‘ll never let me in the military, so you never know.


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