# tours



## pro patria (31 Dec 2004)

I will throw this one out their for everyone to read, how many tours does a soldier have to do before he can stop. i have done six and i know if i stopped going it would not be good


----------



## Bartok5 (31 Dec 2004)

Good question.  Unfortunately (for you) there is no "limit" on operational tours.  It is part and parcel of the job that we do.  If you are tired of going on tour (and my hat is definitely off to you for 6), then your only option is to pull the pin and get out.  That, or work some sort of internal unit deal where you get left behind on Rear Party for a tour so that you can "catch your breath" so to speak.  I would suspect that the latter would require a "non-deployable" categorization by the social workers or padre involved in pre-deployment training.  And make no mistake, such a move is likely to have career progression implications for you.  

Bottom line?  There is no easy answer to your conundrum.  But I certainly empathize with your situation, particularly if you have children who must deal with "Daddy" being away for half of their lives.  If that is the case, then my advice (with all due respect) is to get out of the Army and pursue a stable civilian career.  That is precisely what I am intending to do, so I speak from somewhat the same perspective.  Granted however, I have only 3 tours and 6 moves in 18 years....

Really, the choice is yours.  The Army has operational requirements which exceed a healthy state for the manpower pool.  This means that most of us will end up doing repeated tours.  Some high-demand trades (eg. combat engineers and certain tech trades) are far worse off than others.   But at the end of the day, it is you who have to decide whether or not continued military service and its associated demands are consistent with what you want out of life.  The pay is good and the benefits are second to none.  But none of that means a pinch of coon-shite if you or your family is dissatisfied.  You can't put a price on contentment.....

You need to sit down and examine the various pro's and con's in an objective fashion then make a decision.  It isn't easy leaving the Army, particularly if you have been at it for the majority of your adult life.  Heck, I've had this haircut since I was 13 years old.  But at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself what is the most important thing to you.  For me, it is my family and a genuine desire to try being a taxpaying civvie for a change during the latter half (hopefully) of my life.  For you, the baseline motivation may be entirely different.  You need to decide for yourself what you want, and where you want to go with your life.

Just my personal thoughts....


----------



## pro patria (31 Dec 2004)

Thanks for your info


----------



## pbi (31 Dec 2004)

I echo Mark C here, although I am sorry to think that people of his calibre will leave us. I have now served just under 31 years as a Res  and Reg . In that time I have done four tours (not too bad in 23 years of RegF service) and even that has taken its toll in ways that are not always immediately evident, because they happened when my kids were young which is a vulnerable time. I love the Army, and I am proud to be a Canadian soldier, but I too have my days when I wonder what it would be like to just go and do something else that was a bit more stable and not have to worry about getting posted again. In the end, we must choose which is more important: family or Army. There is no shame in choosing: the shame comes in short-changing and maybe even harming one for the other by avoiding the choice. The choice is not an easy one. Cheers.


----------



## Love793 (1 Jan 2005)

This is obviously a touchy subject, so here's my suggestion to help.  There are a lot of Reservists whom are ready and willing to go on tour.  Unfortunately, in a lot of cases they get left off tours, because they have no prior tour experience.  This is understandable for Roto(s) 0.  However as situations stabilise, sending Reserve sub units on Roto would aid.  I know this has been tried with LVP Coys (which in my opinion looked strangely like a Armd (Mud)Recce Sqn manned by Infanteers, but I digress) with mixed results.  Maybe getting them into theatre sooner would help.  I and others in my boat feel bad seeing my Reg force counterparts doing countless tours and us being held back do to lack of operational experience.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (1 Jan 2005)

MarkC and pbi are bang on and I have had similar thoughts (although when the call goes out, for some reason I'm still first in line!  LOL)...

Love793:

I see your point, but unfortunately it isn't quite that simple.  The administrative and training requirements to prepare a Reserve sub-unit for service overseas are so onerous that they preclude using formed sub-units for anything but the most predictable of missions - we _just _ managed it for the last couple of Bosnia rotations.  I was involved with those and it was a huge burden on the mounting Area and formations for rather limited (IMHO) gain.

For Athena, the skill sets (recce/surveillance, mech infantry, cbt engineer) required virtually rule out use of Reserve Force personnel in large numbers.  In LFWA, we said pointblank that (with a few - case by case - exceptions, Reservists had to have a previous tour before being employed on the mission - for good reason.


----------



## Jungle (1 Jan 2005)

Pro Patria, have you considered a posting to a trg establishment ? I don't know what rank you are, but you can likely get a 4-5 year posting to a school and get some stability. There is a lot of work involved, but it might give you time to re-evaluate your future intentions without having to deploy.


----------



## dglad (1 Jan 2005)

> I see your point, but unfortunately it isn't quite that simple.   The administrative and training requirements to prepare a Reserve sub-unit for service overseas are so onerous that they preclude using formed sub-units for anything but the most predictable of missions - we just managed it for the last couple of Bosnia rotations.   I was involved with those and it was a huge burden on the mounting Area and formations for rather limited (IMHO) gain.



I grudgingly have to agree, because the Res F isn't currently structured properly to force-generate formed sub-units.   The friction in the indiv trg system propagates through the system, making it extremely difficult to generate sub-units even for relatively brief exercises, much less prolonged ops.   Moreover, the structure itself is flawed.   There are too many units, causing a diffusion of effort and a disunity of thought.   A sub-unit is much more than (roughly) one hundred people...it's an embedded and functioning command and control infrastructure, sustainment elements and, perhaps even more importantly, a cohesive body of soldiers confident in one another's abilities and their leadership.   As long as we keep the Res F frozen in its current, fractured, archaic, early 20th century mass-mobilization structure, it's never going to efficiently force-generate much more than indiv augmentees and occasional sub-sub-unit sized elements.

Having said all that, I disagree that the CRIC experiences were without much pay-off.   Perhaps, in a short-term sense, the effort involved didn't quite justify the saving in Reg F manpower (I don't know; I bow to your more direct experience here).   However, the longer-term result was a far better understanding on the part of both the Reg and Res F as to what is required to mount a Res F sub-unit, and where the limitations are.   We also now have a reasonably large group of Reservsists with experience in mounting and employing up to a sub-unit, in a unit-level context.


----------



## Recce41 (1 Jan 2005)

Fellas
 Be thankful, it's not like the old times. 12 month tours and no LTA or n WW1 and 2 2-4 yrs gone. My father was gone a yr. They were thinking of 9 months at one time. My Bosnia tour in 94 was 7 months, it's bad give advance party then getting stuck on the last flight. then off to IFOR.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (2 Jan 2005)

dglad:

You're probably right in that the CRIC experiences at least gave some of the leadership a chance to participate in more than an augmentee role.  However, I'm not sure the effort was worth it in the end.  For the first rotation (PALLADIUM 11), we ended up doing a great deal of the company's predeployment administration (although, admittedly, not all of it), including drafting the coy's training plan.  For the second, the coy had to be sourced from across Canada, with all the associated administrative and training hassles (thankfully, I was deployed for this one - LOL).

With enough lead time and a predictable mission, large numbers of Reservists can be deployed.  Without predictability, though, we'd be asking Reservists to commit to taking time off work/school for something that cannot be guaranteed.  For most of the recent missions (including the eight or so I have direct experience with), the TO&E has been a work in progress and nothing is guaranteed.  If you have someone saying "I need to know xx months in advance that I'm going for sure" that person's employability is limited to those (very few) missions with TO&Es that we know well in advance and that are guaranteed not to change over the year or so it takes to force generate, mount, deploy and redeploy.

All this to say that you're exactly right in your analysis of Reserve force structure and training. The system just isn't set up to relieve the Regular Force of the burden of overseas missions to any great degree.  Without major structural change (including to such perennial problems as the pay system), I fear that we're going to be limited to individual augmentation - and carefully selected individuals for most missions at that.


----------



## Morgs (30 Jan 2005)

My hat off to all of you people that have completed multiple (or any, for that matter!) tours.
On a side note to this thread, what is the likelihood of being sent on tour during your initial 3 year contract? Obviously I am talking combat trades here.

cheers,
Morgs


----------



## pbi (30 Jan 2005)

Morgs said:
			
		

> My hat off to all of you people that have completed multiple (or any, for that matter!) tours.
> On a side note to this thread, what is the likelihood of being sent on tour during your initial 3 year contract? Obviously I am talking combat trades here.
> 
> cheers,
> Morgs



The answer to your question is: "it depends". It depends on how many missions are on the go (we are at a very low spot right now), how the forces on those missions are composed, what else you or your unit are doing at the time the mission comes up, etc. From now until late summer of 05, it will stay about the same unless the Govt gets us into something new. Then, in Aug/Sep 05 we should open the new PRT in Kandahar (about a large company in size-- a mixture of MOCs). Then, in early 06, if things stay they way they look now (IF..), we will likely deploy a considerably larger force to Afghanistan, which shouldl offer more Cbt A spots to whatever Area sources it. If we were then to move our main camp from Kabul to Kandahar, there would be an additional short term requirement for more troops (sometimes known as a "surge" or "TAV" (technical assistance visit) to provide extra protection while the relocation and teardown/buildup is completed.

Cheers

Cheers


----------



## Armymedic (30 Jan 2005)

Morgs said:
			
		

> My hat off to all of you people that have completed multiple (or any, for that matter!) tours.
> On a side note to this thread, what is the likelihood of being sent on tour during your initial 3 year contract? Obviously I am talking combat trades here.



Also depends on the Cbt arms trade you chose:

Cbt Eng - pack your bags your going twice,

Armour - RCD/12 RBC, 1 for sure, possibly 2, Strathconas, maybe 1,

Infantry - dependant on your battalion maybe 1,

Artillery - good luck, maybe 1 in 6yrs if you're good and lucky.

And although its not a cbt arm, for Med Techs, until you are done your QL 5 (after 4 yrs) its rare to go overseas, but once you are Cpl QL 5 there are all sorts of positions on every tour (like me 3 tours in 5 yrs).


----------



## Morgs (30 Jan 2005)

Thanks very much for your informative posts!

Is there any specific reason why for Armour RCD/12 RBC will be going on 1 for sure and possible 2. but Strathconas maybe 1?
Does it have anytytihng to do with rotations?


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (31 Jan 2005)

It has everything to do with rotations.  There's supposed to be a year gap between deployments for both units and individuals, which drives which units are available for operations.  Having said that, there is a certain amount of speculation going on here.  What we know for sure (along with some guesses):

RCD:  Athena Roto 3 (inbound now)
12 RBC:  Athena Roto 4
Strathconas:  _perhaps_ PRT/KAF deployment if a Recce Sqn is reconsituted in time.  If not, perhaps RCD. (speculation)
3 PPCLI:  PRT/KAF deployment (informed speculation)

I should note that the above doesn't include sub-unit deployments (Athena has both an infantry coy and an engineer sqn) - which impact upon battalion/regiment's ability to force generate.

I have not seen the new Army managed readiness plan, so can't/won't comment further on unit deployments.  Generally speaking, there are always engineers and signallers, so they'll be going on anything coming up.  Also in the breach are 2 PPCLI (which was slated for NRF 06 - but I am likely out of date here), 1 RCR, (later) 2 RCR and at least one Vandoo battalion.  We're coming off the so-called "operational pause" soon, so anything is fair game.  All of these may have both a Recce Sqn and an Engr Sqn attached.

Want to go overseas fast?  Become an ammo tech (no kidding!) or a signaller (strat com).


----------



## 043 (31 Jan 2005)

Why would you stop???? I am on my ILQ course right now and there are 120 of us on it. Now mind you this is a tri service course but there are people on it with over 20 years in who just have their CD!!!!!!!!!! One of our instructors has 32 yrs in and has no tours!!!!!!!

I have 6 tours myself and let me tell you, they can't come soon enough!!!!!!!!! Reason being, as a Combat Engineer, it is the only time we get to do our jobs for real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go over there, do your jobs for 6 months, and do it well, then you come back to Canada and go on Exercise doing things for fake. I hate it but realize it is a necessary evil....all training is a rehearsal right???

I myself couldn't imagine myself turning down a tour.................you just have to remember the same guy who always manages to get out of a tour or worse yet........the guy who never finishes a course, never finishes an exercise or never finishes a tour..........we promote them in the Engineers by the way.

My 2 cents,

CHIMO!!!!!!!


----------



## Morgs (31 Jan 2005)

CHIMO!!!!! said:
			
		

> Why would you stop???? I am on my ILQ course right now and there are 120 of us on it. Now mind you this is a tri service course but there are people on it with over 20 years in who just have their CD!!!!!!!!!! One of our instructors has 32 yrs in and has no tours!!!!!!!
> 
> I have 6 tours myself and let me tell you, they can't come soon enough!!!!!!!!! Reason being, as a Combat Engineer, it is the only time we get to do our jobs for real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go over there, do your jobs for 6 months, and do it well, then you come back to Canada and go on Exercise doing things for fake. I hate it but realize it is a necessary evil....all training is a rehearsal right???
> 
> ...



...That was one of the reasons I was asking. Obviously I havent experienced it first hand, but I want to go on as many tours as possible. I'm sure I sound just like you guys did when you first joined (or maybe i dont, who knows?), but thats part of the whole excitement for me.
I can understand though why some people are a bit reluctant, especially after you've got a wife or husband and a few little ankle biters


----------



## GGHG_Cadet (31 Jan 2005)

Just wondering, how many tours have the Ammo Techs on this board been on?


----------



## jmackenzie_15 (31 Jan 2005)

What dictates (infantry battallions specifically) who gets sent overseas in what order? Does command just decide which units to send based on readiness, or manpower, or if theyve just come home from a tour or what ? Ive been somewhat curious about that lately.


----------



## Ammogod (31 Jan 2005)

As a Ammo Tech I have been on only one tour, Bosina 2003, again it depends on your posting,
As a Strathcona I had one tour 1989 Cyprus
I did 4 years in Germany as a 8CH ( I know thats not a tour)


----------



## pbi (31 Jan 2005)

jmackenzie_15 said:
			
		

> What dictates (infantry battallions specifically) who gets sent overseas in what order? Does command just decide which units to send based on readiness, or manpower, or if theyve just come home from a tour or what ? Ive been somewhat curious about that lately.



Starting in 2006, the Army will be operating from a force generating plan that will see two task forces (battalion sized) and a deployable brigade HQ available for deployment at any given time. These tasks will rotate throughout the Army, but they will be rotated more by sub-unit than by unit, as the plan is to build these units up by "plug and play" from sub-units rather than to send completely formed units. That's the future plan.

Up until then, "when you go" will continue to be decided to a great extent by "when you went". The deployable units of the Army exist in a sort of "queue", depending on things such as how long ago the battalion last deployed, major re-equipment, etc. The Army tries to project this out as far as possibe, on a unit basis,   but there are variables that the Army cannot control. Biggest of these is the freedom of the Govt to decide where it will commit the Army, to do what, and for how long. These Govt decisions are driven by political considerations, both external and domestic. The Army can have all the nice neat little rotation charts that it wants, but when the Govt says "send a task force there, now"--all that goes down the crapper. The last two CLS (Jeffries and Hillier) had a least some success in convincing the Govt that the Army needs some predictability and breathing room, but in the end we are still "firemen".

The current, day-to-day readiness level of a unit has little to do wth its place in the queue, because once a unit is selected to deploy it will be brought up to strength by robbing other units, Areas and Commands, as well as by undergoing a dedicated period of refresher training followed by Theatre/Mission Specific Training (TMST). This process can last from 90 to around 120 days, depending on how much preparation is required. Once a unit is redeployed from theatre, it is not _supposed_ to deploy again for a year.

Cheers


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (1 Feb 2005)

About ammo techs, as it was pointed out it very much depends on your posting.  If you're an "Army" ammo tech (in my experience mounting 8+ missions), you're like gold, as there are very few qualified pers available for direct task.  The situation isn't helped by the fact that the AF and Navy are very reluctant to cough up any of their "purple" trades to go overseas with Army units.  Thus, if you're an ammo tech posted to (say) Cold Lake, you're likely staying home for a while...  If you're in Wainwright, well...

I can't expand on PBI's excellent post.  The problem with "managed readiness" is that any new, unanticipated deployment throws a wrench into the works and trashes the entire system.  This is what happened (repeatedly) with ATOF.  I understand that the new system is supposed to cater to this by building in redundancy, but for a small army like ours  I'm not sure it's effective.


----------



## Greywolf (1 Feb 2005)

I've never gone on a tour and I would like to know what it's like.  Do you basically work 7 days/week?  Do you mainly do work related to your trade, or are there other taskings e.g. gate duty...?  What happens when your tour ends?  I heard that you get some time off right after a tour (for how long?)  and does that cut into your annual leave, or do you get some other kind of leave?


----------



## Armymedic (1 Feb 2005)

Greywolf said:
			
		

> I've never gone on a tour and I would like to know what it's like. Do you basically work 7 days/week? Do you mainly do work related to your trade, or are there other taskings e.g. gate duty...?



Generally, you are on duty from the moment your step off the plane until the moment you step back on. Dependant on your task/trade, you could work straight days, split days or shift work. You may get a "Sunday Routine" which is basically a day of rest, which allows you to sleep in and/or get some of those personal things done. but thats not a rule. As it stands now ISAF in Kabul doesn't have as many pers as they should, so time off is a premium. Also due to leave, secondary duties, and all the other military stuff that goes on, sections are usually always one or two people understrength, which means more work for everyone else.

Medical staff always have a team on standby for the Quick reaction force which is on 5-15 mins NTM for any and all emergencies. 
Other trades have and do similar things, but I'll leave that to them...



> What happens when your tour ends? I heard that you get some time off right after a tour (for how long?) and does that cut into your annual leave, or do you get some other kind of leave?



You get 5 days disembarkation before you  leave, 7 days embarkation upon your return from a 6 month mission. You are also entitled to 2.5 days leave per deployment months home leave (HLTA) while on tour (usually about 16 days plus travel time). Annual leave still has to be taken so usually it is planned pre or post tour. It is much easier to have permission to accumulate ann leave if you are going on tour.


----------



## armyrules (1 Feb 2005)

Great question Greywolf I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## Ammogod (1 Feb 2005)

Sorry Teddy your wrong all Ammo techs are army trades, we have a few posting to air bases ( 1 in Winnipeg, 1 in Bagagetville,) and a few Navy bases( 1 in Halafax, 1 in Esquimalt)The rest are army bases or Ammo Depots or riding a desk in Ottawa. we do "plug and play" for tours out of the depots.


----------



## Marty (1 Feb 2005)

Ive got another question .....what if any are the guidlines for sending someone home due to special circumstances ? Wife sick , birth of a child , death in the family .......that sort of thing? As well if you do get sent home for something , do you end up going back on tour ?


----------



## Padraig OCinnead (1 Feb 2005)

Your chain of command will do all they can to get you home during circumstances which they feel need attending to at home. In '97 while overseas my kid brother died and within 36 hours I was home. Depending on the reasons for repat you will most likely be sent back as I was. Going back on tour after all is taken care of?  I was back on tour after spending a little under a week at home. Wife sick? Depends how bad. Birth of a child. Depends again on extenuating circumstances but odds are they will not have sent you over in the first place if at all avoidable. If while at home you feel that you need more time, the Padre can authorize extended time to continue getting things resolved. However your CO can have you back once the minimum time is up if operational requirements dictate.

In the end there is much that will be done in your favour to ensure that things are taken care.


----------



## civvy3840 (1 Feb 2005)

I think I heard on this site or from someone else that you could only do 1 tour a year is this true. Does that include training courses (ex...SQ). Why only 1 a year?


thanks 

Jack


----------



## George Wallace (1 Feb 2005)

"Quality of Life" issues.  Eventually, people will "burn out".

GW


----------



## Armymedic (1 Feb 2005)

Canforgen on Perstempo is the key. 

Overseas deployments longer then 60 days put you onto a 12 month deployment hold for your next overseas deployment. You are also not supposed to be posted or placed on any career course 60 days upon return as well....

But its all just a policy, whether people follow it or not, is the gov'ts fault.


----------



## aesop081 (1 Feb 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> ...... You are also not supposed to be posted or placed on any career course 60 days upon return as well....



I know what you mean but........like it ever happens that way !


----------



## civvy3840 (1 Feb 2005)

I was only asking this because my father was in for 24 years but went on 28+ tours and I was just wondering if I was getting false information. 

thanks

Jack


----------



## civvy3840 (1 Feb 2005)

Another question: are tours optional or do they tell you were to go?

thanks

Jack


----------



## MikeM (1 Feb 2005)

28? Holy shit..

That's a lot. What trade was he?


----------



## Sundborg (1 Feb 2005)

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> Another question: are tours optional or do they tell you were to go?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jack



If you are with the unit that is supposed to go, you're going.  Unless you have some kind of excuse like a medical or something.


----------



## pbi (1 Feb 2005)

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> I was only asking this because my father was in for 24 years but went on 28+ tours and I was just wondering if I was getting false information.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jack



28? That's interesting. Who was he with, and when? What was the reason he had to do so many tours?

Cheers


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (1 Feb 2005)

Ammogod:  I'll (of course) stand corrected.  What I was referring to (and should have said) was "Army-controlled".  There aren't many of you guys around in any event! 

Cheers,

TR


----------



## Armymedic (2 Feb 2005)

Every circumstance is different. For things with a date, like child birth, you can plan your leave around it and the chain can adjust your leave within reason.

As for a compassionate leave or repatration, the chain involves the Padres and MO to assist in getting you home. If its a short term thing, they usually try to get you back to theater if there is enough time left on the tour. 30 days is a majic number. Max time out of theater, less time left and you'll stay home, etc.


----------



## dglad (2 Feb 2005)

Actually, the terms under which compassionate leave can be granted are quite restrictive, and generally only involve a death or traumatic illness or injury to a family member.  This is documented in a CANFORGEN.  As was pointed out, other, more happy events--such as the birth of a child--would have to be accommodated using mission leave.


----------



## civvy3840 (2 Feb 2005)

He was in the infantry with 3 ppcli and the airborne regiment.


----------



## civvy3840 (2 Feb 2005)

He joined in 1979 and got out in 2003. I forgot he later switched to communications.


----------



## civvy3840 (2 Feb 2005)

sundborg can you request to go on tour?


----------



## Sundborg (2 Feb 2005)

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> sundborg can you request to go on tour?



I myself?  Right now I can't because I am on course for a couple years.  If I wasn't on course and I was fully QL3 trained, then I probably would be able to go.  There are many factors that would allow one to go or not.  If you're with the unit that is going, then you'll probably go.  If you are not with the unit that is going, then you most likely wont be going unless they need more personel or one's expertise.


----------



## civvy3840 (2 Feb 2005)

Ok just wanted to be clear on that one. How long is the average tour somewhere around 2 months or longer?


Thanks for all the information guys


----------



## Ammogod (2 Feb 2005)

NP Teddy did'nt mean to jump on you.


----------



## armyrules (3 Feb 2005)

I have a question let's say that I am on BMQ  and my grandfather dies will I be able to get back home or since he is not immediate family will they not send me home?


----------



## Radop (6 Feb 2005)

Morgs said:
			
		

> My hat off to all of you people that have completed multiple (or any, for that matter!) tours.
> On a side note to this thread, what is the likelihood of being sent on tour during your initial 3 year contract? Obviously I am talking combat trades here.
> 
> cheers,
> Morgs


I hope to burst your bubble on this one but the CS pers deploy more than any other trades.  One of my WO in Pet had 9 different tours and he has done one tour twice and will be leaving for the next roto for Afghanistan (his second roto there).  In 8 yrs with the infantry, I never deployed as there was only cyprus.  As a rad op/sig op, I have 3 tours in 10 yrs which is actually low for our trade.  For tours, I have always been in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I have tours to Rwanda, Golan Heights and Afghanistan (ISAF).  Two roto 0s and a roto 59.  Rwanda had to be the most rewarding and demanding jobs I have done.  There are less than 50 of us left in from that tour mainly due to PTSD from what we were exposed to.  I would imagine that the same can be said for those who went to Somolia or UNPROFOR in its early years.


----------



## MSE_OP18 (6 Feb 2005)

I will have to agree with Radop. It is quite true about CS pers deploying more. I have 3 tours in 5yrs and will be going on my 4th in a few days..Afghanistan again. I also missed Kosovo in '99 due to child being born. My hat is off to you as well Radop. My old man was in Rwanda Roto 0...still serving now. But I know he hard time to but he doing better so far. Anyways if ya want go places CSS(combat service support) is the way to go.


----------



## Armymedic (6 Feb 2005)

Yep, CSS in Pet will get you on tours. Mind you, I do know a mechanic (411) whos been in Pet for 6 yrs, fit with no problems, has yet to go on tour....


----------



## Radop (6 Feb 2005)

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> I was only asking this because my father was in for 24 years but went on 28+ tours and I was just wondering if I was getting false information.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jack


Tours are missions overseas not domestic operations or exercises.  Going to Germany was not a tour but a posting.  The person with the most tours in Canada was 22 and that was because he was in Cyprus and got married to a Cypriate.  I have never heard of anyone nearing those numbers.  Correct me if I am wrong!


----------



## MG34 (6 Feb 2005)

Well as far as I am concerned if you sign the dotted line you do the time.I have 7 tours now and will be going on what ever one comes up next,it's my job END OF STORY.If you have a good reason ie PTSD,Career courses and similar then sure miss the tour but other than that the "I've already done my time" doesn't cut it,shake the sand out of your ovaries and soldier on,or remuster to a nice safe trade somewhere,or transfer to a school.


----------



## aesop081 (6 Feb 2005)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Well as far as I am concerned if you sign the dotted line you do the time.I have 7 tours now and will be going on what ever one comes up next,it's my job END OF STORY.If you have a good reason ie PTSD,Career courses and similar then sure miss the tour but other than that the "I've already done my time" doesn't cut it,shake the sand out of your ovaries and soldier on,or remuster to a nice safe trade somewhere,or transfer to a school.



Amen to that !


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (7 Feb 2005)

Ammogod:  No worries, I didn't take it that way...

The above posters make good points - for tours CSS is the way to go, hence my point on Ammo Techs and signallers...

MG34:     Three and counting here.


----------



## aesop081 (7 Feb 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Ammogod:   No worries, I didn't take it that way...
> 
> The above posters make good points - for tours CSS is the way to go, hence my point on Ammo Techs and signallers...
> 
> MG34:        Three and counting here.



CSS guys deploy alot.......you REALY want to deploy alot........COMBAT ENGINEERS !


----------



## civvy3840 (7 Feb 2005)

Sorry I counted postings...


----------



## Hockeycaper (8 Feb 2005)

Pro Pat, I was a member of 1 RCR 94 -2000 and did two tours Croatia-94 and Bosnia 98. I too had to make the hard decision to leave the "family" and be called a dis-loyal royal. But you know what I sucked up my pride and found that my family and their well being was more important to me. As I watched my buddies heading out for Kosovo and now back and forth to Afganistan It hurts but I think I have found a better place in the Res. world and am now spending more time with my children. Which ever diecision you make it will have to be the best one for you. Good Luck


----------



## Radop (8 Feb 2005)

Cdn. Royal said:
			
		

> Pro Pat, I was a member of 1 RCR 94 -2000 and did two tours Croatia-94 and Bosnia 98. I too had to make the hard decision to leave the "family" and be called a dis-loyal royal. But you know what I sucked up my pride and found that my family and their well being was more important to me. As I watched my buddies heading out for Kosovo and now back and forth to Afganistan It hurts but I think I have found a better place in the Res. world and am now spending more time with my children. Which ever diecision you make it will have to be the best one for you. Good Luck



Well said.  I do agree with the earlier posts about signing on the dotted line, you should do your time.  I would go 1yr home 6 mos away for the rest of my career if I could but I may not have much of a family.


----------



## NCRCrow (8 Feb 2005)

I agree with MG34, soldier, sailor on. 

I have done 6 tours since 93 and was an incumbent on OP APOLLO Roto 0 and OP ATHENA Roto 0 plus Southern Watch 98, Sharp Guard 93,and OP Hurricane 99 (best tour-LOL) and STANAVFORLANT.

I WOULD DO IT AGAIN IN HEART BEAT! NO REGRETS!

The ability to serve your country in a foreign theatre and be part of history vice watching it on TV is the reason, I joined and continue to serve. 
I will do my 20 years and move on, but at the end of the day I know I put Canada above self. 
(U might remember that from your Oath when signed up)

Crow (makes for better Legion stories)


----------



## EODSpr (8 Feb 2005)

I think most will agree that since 1991 or so the tours and Op tempo has been up. I know in my unit (2 CER) having supported ROTO 13 in Bosnia, ROTO 0 Afgan, troops on DART, troops on the way to ROTO 3 and soon to prep for ROTO 4, along with trying to manage soldiers careers PLQ, ILQ, 5a, 6a etc etc... . Troops are thin on the ground most will be on tour within or just over the one year break (HAHA) time. For most this is not a problem for some it is, we are seriously sheaking the bushes to send those who have for whatever reason not deployed recently or at all, time to put up and do the job. 

This being said it is now vital though and sometimes unpopularto our soldiers to augment our ranks with Reserves for the health of the Regiment. It is hard to explain this to the troops who want to go but may be held back, but there is not much sense sending a Cpl on his second or third tour as a Sect Mbr when we need him to get his PLQ completed in order to fill that MCpl position on the next mission. 

It is now time that if required and you wish to make this a carreer that you go on tour, or do that course that is required to enable you to go on the next one. If you are unwilling to do that find another trade or in the addage of one of my old RSM's "Get the f**k out." All in all the choice is yours and which ever one you make, best of luck.

E45

Chimo!


----------



## ZipperHead (16 Feb 2005)

Hi all. I've been away from the forum for a while, and decided to drop back in.....

I'm in complete agreement with Mark C (and the others) that are in the "suck it up and soldier on" frame of mind. I (and I'm assuming most people) joined the military to do something different, to travel, serve their country, etc. Sitting on your ass in Canada, doing the same thing, day in and day out isn't what the military is about. I have gotten into heated arguments with people who feel that they don't have to go overseas, because of some lame reason (the one I love the most is "I have done my (singular) tour.... I don't have to do any more..."). And those types, invariably, will play the system (padres, social workers, Quality of Life, etc) and, sadly enough, usually get their way, as the squeaky wheel gets the grease. 

I have only been on 3 tours (Cyprus 89, Bosnia 97 and 00-01), and want to do at least one more before I pull pole. I moved to Gagetown from Edmonton for family reasons (I work at the Armour School), so I am missing out on Afghanistan, but I don't think that mission is going to end any time soon. I made the decision to come out here, so that's my own problem, but there are ways and means of "taking a break" as mentioned earlier in the post. In some ways it can actually be career enhancing, which is wrong for many reasons (the experience you gain overseas is usually far superior to anything that you do in an average 6 month period in Canada), as you remain in a constant position (ie as an instructor, or a "high profile" postion, etc), and can take career courses and the like, whereas on tour (and leading up to it, and the first 3 or so months after) you are "only doing your job" (as I've heard some lamers refer to doing tours (whereas they were basically civvies in uniform..... if an average civilian can be trained to do your job in a week or so, you are, IMO, a civvy in uniform). 

As for CSS trades, I always find it strange for the "feast or famine" aspect: I have seen Sigs guys, Engr's, Posties, Cooks and the like that have racks that would put a Red Army soldier to shame, and then on the other end of the spectrum are those that possess the "Rack of Shame": CD, Canada125, and perhaps the NATO SSM (c'mon..... 6 months in Alert!?!?!?! That's a testament to your liver's ability to process alcohol for 6 months, but I wasn't there, so far be it for me to judge  : And the urge for units to send people to Bosnia (and I guess now to A'stan) to fill out the medal count for those lacking isn't limited to only our military: in Bosnia we worked with the Brits for a 10 days stint, and they had a 2Lt who wasn't fully qualified to be a Troop Leader, so he was only over long enough to get the "gong", and ended up being a 2IC for patrols (I'm sure the Cpl was thrilled to have him along....). I'm guessing that the CSS trades have the same problem that the Combat Arms do: there are those that can do their job (and do tours, go to the field, etc) and those that always seem to have a reason for not doing their job (personal, medical, etc). I suppose you can't even blame the person, so much as you have to blame the system. If there's a way to exploit a failing of the system, people will take advantage of it. Not to say that people have to be accountable, though.....

Anyway, I suppose the ongoing mission to A'stan will help top up the medal count for those that always seem to be going out the door, and for those that always have an excuse not to go, they will continue to collect their pay, see their family every day, work their second job, not have to miss their kids first day of school/school play/tooth falling out, etc. 

My wife is also in the military (she was on Op Apollo..... which helped spur us to move out to Gagetown, for a bit more supposed "stability", but that's another story) and we have accepted that one, or both of us, could (and have been) deployed at the same time (I did Op Grizzly (G8 security) while she was in A'stan) and our 2 kids (at the time) paid for that by not having "mommy" and/or "daddy" around for varying periods of time. Luckily, we have a family and friend support network, so we have that luxury. It is starting to annoy me, now that there are more and more service couples in the military (a lot of the times it seems to be the  (formerly civilian) wife joining the military long after the husband did), that these couples can get out of deployments or courses simply because they are both in the military. Well, duh!!!! Was the CADPAT in the closet the first clue?!?!! But again, the system will jump in to protect people because of Quality of Life. For those that are curious, Gagetown wasn't my first choice of postings (we are both Westerners), but it was really the only place that had employment for an Armd Sgt, and a Med Tech MCpl. (I have been told that I'm lucky because my wife can go anywhere I can because she's in the military, and that it's easier for us than it is for someone who has a civilian spouse that has to quit their job to help pack up the macaroni box..... I'm sure that will cause some howls of protest from opposing camps: the service couples VS the camp follower wife who has to find a new job/employer/career every 3 to 5 years) The logical choice would have been Wainwright (shudder.....) but, I would have gone solo, as there were no positions for a Med Tech MCpl. I suppose my point is: you have to sometimes choose your poison, and that isn't always easy. 

Anyway, I've gone the rambling route, and it's late.... BTW, I'm on Parental Leave (god bless the PC, tree hugging, QWL military!!!!! Exploit the system!!!  > ) 

Take care,

Allan


----------



## Chags (16 Feb 2005)

Allan.. Just so you know.. they are posting 2 MCpl Med Techs this APS..


----------



## swoop_ds (16 Feb 2005)

I've been in the reserves for almost 3 years as a MSEop.  Recently I decided that I wanted to go on tour and so I took time away from university and I've already discussed it with my job.  I came to this forum and after reading these posts it only makes me want to go on tour more cause you all sound like you enjoyed your tour.  Anyways, my question is this:  I need my bus driving course to go to Golan(or so I'm told) but there's no money left in my unit's training budget.  My boss tells me that since I want the course in order to go on tour there's more of a chance that they can 'figure something out'.  Does this sound plausible or is he just telling me that so I'll stop bugging him/the training NCO about my bus course?  Also, where else am I eligible to go? (I'm a cpl, with my ql5 and doing PLQ right now).  And does anyone know if you can go on unemployment insurance after a tour?
-Dave


----------

