# Why do CDN soldiers only get the new kit while on ops, why do they have to return it



## Se7eN (14 Jun 2001)

HI,
      Its my understanding that the Cdn troops only get the new Gore-Tex, assault vests and ect.. while on an operation. Why do they not get it back here in Canada? is this a good way of doing things??

Let me know

     _ Se7eN


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## Disturbance (14 Jun 2001)

Because its all new and not enough made right now. As more kit gets finished the more it passed down the line. In the reserves we already have the goretex jacket and new fleece and gloves and underwear and the gerber. *hopefully* by next summer we will have the new combats aswell.


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## Master Blaster (15 Jun 2001)

You appear to have a true fixation with ‘kit‘.  I would ask you to carefully examine the kit and equipment utilized by the Armies of WW2 and Korea and tell me that their equipment was superior to what we have now.  

No?  Well maybe it wasn‘t the kit and gear that got the job done, Eh?

Dileas Gu Brath


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## the patriot (15 Jun 2001)

At the end of the day your Section Battle Drills will pull you through a skirmish and help you survive.  Not how many pockets your load carrying vest has or how cool your gortex all weather boots are.   Soldiers a hundred years ago did not have "synthetic garments that breathe".  They had to deal with cotton and good old wool.

-the patriot-


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## Disturbance (16 Jun 2001)

If I had the choice between gortex weather boots and the crap leather ones we have now obviously I am gonna go with the gortex. 

Obviously kit doesnt make the soldier. BUT it can assist him in doin his job with not having to worry about stupid problems that can only be explained from poorly designed equipment like the ruck and webbing not fitting properly.


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## centurion (16 Jun 2001)

patriot

We find some of your musings confusing, to say the least. At times, you pose questions and opinions that are somewhat thoughtful and open to meaningful debate and discussion. However, at other times you seem so far off the wall (like this thread) that you don‘t seem to know the current goings on. Do you get your info from scraps of overheard conversation you hear in bars frequented by disgrunteld soldiers, or scuttlebutt picked up in the local legion? We find it odd that a serving member of the military, no matter what, regular, reserve or even cadets would think that the new issue kit is superfluous to a soldiers well being and performance. Maybe that‘s the ticket. Have you or do you serve as a soldier? If so, we would be interested in your qualifications and where you may (or may not) be getting your inane ideas. Having worn battledress (and not as a cadet) and now the new gortex, three different generations of fighting order and load carrying gear, I can attest that todays is the best ever. It improves morale, hence performance. Wet and cold soldiers do not performe at peak. To speak of cotton and wool being just as good as today‘s gear is a farce, and anyone with TI (do you have any?) would know better than to make such a statement and insult our intelligence.


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## Egon (16 Jun 2001)

Who is we?


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## RCA (16 Jun 2001)

Us


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Jun 2001)

> Originally posted by centurion:
> [qb]patriot
> 
> We find some of your musings confusing, to say the least. At times, you pose questions and opinions that are somewhat thoughtful and open to meaningful debate and discussion. However, at other times you seem so far off the wall (like this thread) that you don‘t seem to know the current goings on. Do you get your info from scraps of overheard conversation you hear in bars frequented by disgrunteld soldiers, or scuttlebutt picked up in the local legion? We find it odd that a serving member of the military, no matter what, regular, reserve or even cadets would think that the new issue kit is superfluous to a soldiers well being and performance. Maybe that‘s the ticket. Have you or do you serve as a soldier? If so, we would be interested in your qualifications and where you may (or may not) be getting your inane ideas. Having worn battledress (and not as a cadet) and now the new gortex, three different generations of fighting order and load carrying gear, I can attest that todays is the best ever. It improves morale, hence performance. Wet and cold soldiers do not performe at peak. To speak of cotton and wool being just as good as today‘s gear is a farce, and anyone with TI (do you have any?) would know better than to make such a statement and insult our intelligence.[/qb]




Read his post again, you obviously missed the point.


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## centurion (17 Jun 2001)

egon-
We write in the third person, plural. No particular reason, just an all encompassing habit picked up years ago, it‘s a writing form that seems to grab the reader‘s attention. Sorry for the confusion.   

RCA-
Welcome to our world, if that is your wish, we seem to think on the same lines.    

Michael-
As stated at the beginning, some are good some are confusing. Didn‘t take the time to reread it six or seven times to fathom the point. Just read it once as another ambiguous statement.   

patriot-
If we misconstrued your point, our apologies.   If not, feel free to reply.


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2001)

Well, without trying to speak for anyone else, I think the point to be made here is that fixating on kit is all well and good, but it‘s what a soldier does with the kit that counts.  There are no magic boots that will make you less tired after marching 30 kilometres, or magic raincoats that will keep you dry in a typhoon, or stop you from sweating in Shilo this summer.  Discomfort, and adapting to it, is part of a soldier‘s life.

If anyone is thinking of not joining the Forces because not everyone has gore-tex boots and the latest assault vest, then yes, they have a kit fixation and probably aren‘t going to do well no matter what they are issued with.

Canadian soldiers have always made do with what they had at the time.  It is as true for the Reservist in Wainwright this summer, wearing 15 year old combat clothing and web gear, as it was for the soldier at Vimy Ridge, wearing brand new 08 pattern web and Kitchener pattern Service Dress.

I agree that much of the current generation of kit is excellent and better by far than, say, 1937 Pattern WE.  I disagree, however, that using the slow supply of the absolute latest kit as an excuse for poor soldiering should be acceptable.


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## centurion (17 Jun 2001)

Michael-
We never assumed to speak for anyone else. If people were confused, we aplologize (again). Hopefully, this will put the matter to rest and when someone reads our post(s) they‘ll compensate accordingly. By way of explanation and to take the edge off, I offer the following as a light hearted excuse. Cheers.


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## Soldier of Fortune (17 Jun 2001)

A point to be made about the latest kit:

-if your issued the latest assault vest/bullet proof vest it could save your life.


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2001)

> Originally posted by Soldier of Fortune:
> [qb]A point to be made about the latest kit:
> 
> -if your issued the latest assault vest/bullet proof vest it could save your life.[/qb]




So could a bible over your heart...do you carry one?


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## Gunner (18 Jun 2001)

Hey, not to be a moderator but this is a free flow discussion and no one should ever limit their comments.  Feel free to speak your mind but be ready to take your lumps when you say something stupid.  The best way to combat ignorance is to get it out into the open.

I can happily state that for the last couple of  rotations overseas there has been no requirement to turn in your kit.  It seems the only thing they want back now is the barrack boxes!     

While it was sad that it has taken so long, we have made leaps and bounds during the last 6 or so years in the area of dress and kit (even major equipment - Coyote and LAV).

For The Patriot - the simple fact is that soldiers didn‘t use this equipment 100 years ago because it wasn‘t readily available.  If it had been, be assured that they would have been clamouring for it.  :warstory:


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## Soldier of Fortune (20 Jun 2001)

I dont hold my bible over my chest ready to stop any incoming bullets...why?


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## McG (20 Jun 2001)

The War Museum has a nice display of Bibles which "took a bullet" for the guys carrying them in their pockets.  :warstory:


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## pacholuk (22 Jun 2001)

I agre with everyone that it is the soldier
who wins the war not the kit. But to give you a 
direct answer to your question "Why do CDN 
soldiers only get the new kit while on ops, why do 
they have to return it "
 Because the Cdn military doesn‘t have the funds 
to give everyone the new kit imediatly it is bieng 
given out on a priority basis. For those who were
at Cougar Salvo and saw the clothe the soldier 
demo remember that they still were testing out 
new designs and that is why they required all new 
kit to be turned in in the past after an op.
 The priority for getting the new stuff is:
                             Those going overseas
                              Reg Force
                              Militia
I hope that helped answered your question.


 :sniper:


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## Soldier of Fortune (24 Jun 2001)

I heard Canadas jungle combat uniforms are being replaced with american style combat uniforms. Apparently there was accident or something involving the uniforms. Its suppose to be all issued by year 2005.


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## Gunner (25 Jun 2001)

The current combat dress was developed for the European Battlefield.  Most soldiers I‘ve heard never had a problem with the colour.  The new CADPAT (Canadian Disruptive Patterm_ provides a computer generated pixel camoflage pattern to break up the body of a soldier and reduce his/her visibility.  It also provides a certain amount of IR (infra red) protection as well.  I‘ve never worn them yet but the soldiers I‘ve spoken with like them.   The  trials I‘ve seen on their camoflage characteristics also bare out (they are harded to see).  There is a desert set of CADPAT that will be issued to those deploying into the hot and sandy countries of the middle east and africa.


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Jun 2001)

> Originally posted by Soldier of Fortune:
> [qb]I heard Canadas jungle combat uniforms are being replaced with american style combat uniforms. Apparently there was accident or something involving the uniforms. Its suppose to be all issued by year 2005.
> 
> [ 24 June 2001: Message edited by: Soldier of Fortune ][/qb]



They are NOT American, though the pattern is similar to the new USMC stuff.  Actually, the CADPAT looks very similar to me like German Flektar.


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## pacholuk (26 Jun 2001)

The new style of combats is a CANADIAN style.
The new combats and equipment we‘re supposed to get by 05(yeah right) ranks at the top in the world for personnol military kit.
Both the americans and the British are supposedly looking at the new designs for their own military.

Pte. Pacholuk              :sniper:


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