# New CF Bride Can't Get Medical Coverage for Birth in SK



## The Bread Guy (25 Jan 2008)

My only comment on this one was:  although the reporter spoke to the SK Ministry of Health, it doesn't appear the question "well, what can be done about this?" was asked.  Then again, if the reporter only spoke to the bureaucrats, and not an SK politician, process is all one would hear about.  

Also, is there anything the CF *can* do here?  Given health care is generally provincially driven, I guess not, but I stand to be corrected.

Shared with the usual disclaimer...

*Soldier faces $20,000 bill for expected child*
Cypriot wife has not finalized status as landed immigrant
Melissa Leong, National Post; Canwest News Service, 25 Jan 08
Article link

TORONTO -- A Canadian soldier who met his wife in Cyprus while on a break from his tour in Afghanistan may be stuck with more than $20,000 in medical bills for their expected child.

Master Cpl. Daniel Joudrey, a 34-year-old electrician with the army, said he is struggling to pay for the birth of his son next month because his wife, Calliopi, has not finalized her status as a landed immigrant in Canada and has no medical coverage.

"We're happy the baby is coming but we're worried. I'm applying for loans, getting turned down so things aren't looking good," Joudrey said on Thursday from his home in Dundurn, Sask.

"I figured I'm Canadian, I'm in the military . . . I thought she would be covered the second we got married."

Joudrey, who has been in the military for 14 years, serving in Bosnia and Afghanistan, said he had hoped that because he served his country, his country would look after him and his family.

Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier has on numerous occasions professed the government's "unwavering" support for the Canadian Forces and their families.

Joudrey said he sought help from the National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Saskatchewan Health and his military superiors, without recourse.

Calls to National Defence were not returned.

The couple met in August 2006 by a hotel pool in Cypress where Joudrey was undergoing "decompression" -- a program designed to ease the physical and mental rigours of life in the combat zone.

They were married the following March after Joudrey and her nine-year-old daughter moved to Saskatchewan.

Her application for permanent resident status has been delayed by missing paperwork such as a criminal record check and medical records.

She is scheduled for a caesarian section on Feb. 5. Hospital officials recently told them that it would cost $3,700 a day for her hospital stay, not including fees for the surgeon, anesthesiologist or medications, she said.

"I thought somebody made a mistake," Calliopi Joudrey, 30, said. "Because I'm not Canadian, I don't expect free medical treatment. But I thought because (my husband) is Canadian and it is his baby that it would be different."

Calliopi Joudrey must also pay more for standard hospital services because she is a visitor to the country. "If you're not a resident of Canada, (hospitals) usually charge about 125 per cent because of additional administrative fees," said Pat Cambridge, assistant director of health registration and vital statistics at Saskatchewan's ministry of health.

Daniel Joudrey, who grew up in a military family, said he has already spent more than $1,800 for blood work, doctors visits and other medical bills.

Some community members, he said, have kindly donated baby clothes.

The hospital has agreed to set up a payment plan for the Joudreys. Also, the baby will get full coverage after he is born, Cambridge said.

"He may be caught in a conundrum but I believe there are people in the military chain of command who can solve his problem," Bob Butt at The Royal Canadian Legion said.

"I don't know all the details . . . But in this particular case, the military should be looking after its own."


----------



## PMedMoe (25 Jan 2008)

Well maybe he should have looked (more) into health coverage as *she is not yet a Canadian citizen*.  
I would hope that after the baby is born, its health care would be provided as the baby will be Canadian.



> Her application for permanent resident status has been delayed by missing paperwork such as a criminal record check and medical records.



Sounds like the problem is at their end.


----------



## exgunnertdo (25 Jan 2008)

First - How is this any different from any other Canadian who meets the love of their life while on vacation abroad?  I don't know about others, but I don't want special treatment on the basis of my employment.  The rules are the same for everyone.

Second - There is a 3 month waiting period (in Ontario, anyway) before medical coverage kicks in for new residents.  Private insurance can be purchased to cover that waiting period (not sure of the insurability of someone who is already pregnant)

Third - No one has mentioned that medical coverage for dependents is the domain of private insurance (Public Service Health Care, via Sun Life).  PSHC kicks in as soon as you "acquire" a dependent, as long as you do the paperwork.  Maybe there is something in our policy that covers this?  Don't know - but it's a piece of the puzzle that's missing.


----------



## riggermade (25 Jan 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Well maybe he should have looked (more) into health coverage as *she is not yet a Canadian citizen*.
> I would hope that after the baby is born, its health care would be provided as the baby will be Canadian.
> 
> Sounds like the problem is at their end.




I agree.  When my wife came to Canada in 1989 I checked all the ins and outs and what my responsibilites were going to be financailly


----------



## Command-Sense-Act 105 (25 Jan 2008)

Not to be harsh, but the moral of the story here is "*sort out your personal admin*"


----------



## Teflon (25 Jan 2008)

> "I figured I'm Canadian, I'm in the military . . . I thought she would be covered the second we got married."



Not to harsh but due to the importance of this ie: medical coverage of new spouce, this thought could have very easily been extended to the thought of looking into this before hand and confirming coverage details.  But not being in his shoes, who am I to say I would do any different (ignoring the fact that even though my wife is and was born Canadian and I still looked into this matter before moving her from her home in Calgary to mine in Edmonton)



> I would hope that after the baby is born, its health care would be provided as the baby will be Canadian.





> The hospital has agreed to set up a payment plan for the Joudreys. Also, the baby will get full coverage after he is born, Cambridge said.


----------



## geo (25 Jan 2008)

exgunnertdo said:
			
		

> Second - There is a 3 month waiting period (in Ontario, anyway) before medical coverage kicks in for new residents.  Private insurance can be purchased to cover that waiting period (not sure of the insurability of someone who is already pregnant)


There is a waiting period in every province.
That having been said, your Provincial Medicare coverage from your former province of residence looks after you till you qualify in your new province.
You aren't expected to stay in limbo those 90 days.


----------



## exgunnertdo (25 Jan 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> There is a waiting period in every province.
> That having been said, your Provincial Medicare coverage from your former province of residence looks after you till you qualify in your new province.
> You aren't expected to stay in limbo those 90 days.



New residents to Canada are "in limbo" for 90 days.  We have a live-in caregiver and when she arrived to Canada and applied for OHIP she was given an OHIP card, but it said right on the card that coverage started 90 days after her arrival in Canada.  She had all of her paperwork done ahead of time (criminal checks, medical checks, Visa, Work Permit) so she was considered a resident from the moment she stepped off the plane.  90 day wait period still applied.  That's where private insurance kicks in - many agencies for new immigrants will have information on this type of coverage, since every new immigrant to Canada is in this situation.

With this lady, the way I understand the rules as we muddled through them for our nanny - the 90 day wait period will kick in once her landed immigrant status is established.  At the moment, she is considered a "visitor", status to be changed to "landed immmigrant" once the paperwork is done.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (25 Jan 2008)

> "He may be caught in a conundrum but I believe there are people in the military chain of command who can solve his problem," Bob Butt at The Royal Canadian Legion said.
> 
> "I don't know all the details . . . But in this particular case, the military should be looking after its own."



Probably at one time, the military would have been involved in ensuring (informing the member) that such details were to be  considered.  At least, I had the experience of so briefing more than one soldier when I was still serving, but it appears that CFAO 19-27 Marriage to Foreign Nationals was cancelled in 2001.  Has anything superceded it or are soldiers now free to marry FNs without informing their CofC.


----------



## riggermade (25 Jan 2008)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> "He may be caught in a conundrum but I believe there are people in the military chain of command who can solve his problem," Bob Butt at The Royal Canadian Legion said.
> 
> "I don't know all the details . . . But in this particular case, the military should be looking after its own."



Why should the military look after this?  He is no more special than anybody else who is considering bringing a foreign national to Canada.  He is old enough to know that he should have looked into this before he brought her to Canada, when I did it the first thing I did was contact Immigration, OHIP and whoever else I could think of that may have had an effect on our lives and pocketbooks.

Sounds to me like he is whining because they didn't plan ahead and now wants help out of a situation he caused


----------



## Aerobicrunner (25 Jan 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> There is a waiting period in every province.
> That having been said, your Provincial Medicare coverage from your former province of residence looks after you till you qualify in your new province.
> You aren't expected to stay in limbo those 90 days.



But this may change in Ontario if this legislation passes.  

PROPOSED LEGISLATION TO SUPPORT MILITARY FAMILIES IN ONTARIO

The McGuinty government intends to introduce legislation in support of military families that, if passed, would exempt Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) eligible military family members moving to Ontario from the waiting period for OHIP coverage, and provide job protection measures for reservists who are called into active duty. The government also plans to increase access to funding for amateur athletes from military families.

OHIP Eligibility

In most cases newcomers to Ontario are subject to a 90 day waiting period for OHIP. Canadian Forces (CF) members and their families are often required to move around frequently and this can result in constant changes to health coverage for these families. This burden can be reduced by exempting OHIP eligible family members from the waiting period and providing them with immediate access to provincially funded health care services.
The proposed act will, if passed, eliminate the OHIP waiting period for eligible military family members moving to Ontario. OHIP eligible spouses and dependants of Canadian Forces members would qualify for all provincially funded health services immediately upon becoming a resident in Ontario.
While the proposed legislation, if passed, could benefit all OHIP eligible military family members who come to Ontario, it would be of special help to families from Quebec because they often must pay fees for physician services upfront during the waiting period before being reimbursed by the Quebec government.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/media/news_releases/archives/nr_07/dec/military_families_bg_20071203.pdf


----------



## riggermade (25 Jan 2008)

The original post says she has not completed paperwork to become a landed immigrant, therefore she is here on a passport and is considered a visitor.  The wait period has nothing to do with this.  My wife came to Canada in may and had no status until Aug and we were fully aware of the consequenses, she got a work permit before she got landed immigrant status.  I suspect the rules have changed since 1989 but I did have to sign paperwork that I would be responsible for her for 7 years as I sponsered her to be a landed immigrant and that meant if she ran up debts, healthcare costs etc


----------



## Blackadder1916 (25 Jan 2008)

Aerobicrunner said:
			
		

> But this may change in Ontario if this legislation passes.
> 
> The proposed act will, if passed, eliminate the OHIP waiting period for eligible military family members moving to Ontario. *OHIP eligible* spouses and dependants of Canadian Forces members would qualify for all provincially funded health services immediately upon becoming a resident in Ontario.



Wouldn't apply in these circumstances.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ohip/ohip_mn.html


> Eligibility
> Ontario residents are eligible for provincially funded health coverage (OHIP). To be eligible for Ontario health coverage you must :
> 
> *be a Canadian citizen or have immigration status as set out in Ontario's Health Insurance Act,* and
> ...



This from the SaskHealth website may be of interest.   http://www.health.gov.sk.ca/newcomers-benefits


> Eligibility for Health Benefits
> 
> Special Classes of Newcomers
> Saskatchewan Health covers health services for certain special classes of newcomers from outside Canada who move to Saskatchewan on or before the first day of the third calendar month after arriving in Canada. If you are among the groups identified below, *you may be eligible for benefits from the date you move to Saskatchewan: *
> ...


I guess that the operative word is "returning"


----------



## Dog Walker (25 Jan 2008)

Here are some stupid questions. I know it’s a long shot.  

What about her own country? Do they have health insurance in Cyprus like the rest of Europe? If so, can she make a claim to get reimbursed from them?


----------



## Blackadder1916 (25 Jan 2008)

Most public (and private) health insurance plans do not provide coverage outside an individual's country of residence.  There may be some cross-border arrangements in Europe for adjacent countries (maybe some sort of EU regulation on the matter) but usually it is expected that travel insurance be purchased.  Even if there was standard out-of-country coverage, there may be a question whether this woman would still be considered a resident of Cyprus.  As in Canada, health coverage probably comes with legal residency, not just citizenship.

Brief Description of the Cyprus Healthcare System


----------



## Gunner98 (26 Jan 2008)

You should take advantage of the 7 months after learning that you are pregnant to research the expenses that lie ahead.  Better yet why not before you decide to have children.


----------



## Twentythousanddollarbaby (27 Jan 2008)

Getting your personal orders together isn't always easy for some, when you are received different answers from different areas of the Government.   We are not asking that Calliopy receive free medical care for herself but she is caring a Canadian baby and that should count for something.  Just because the father doesn't carry the fetus doesn't mean he doesn't have any rights.  Regardless it seems a shame that Danny has to pay $20,000.00 for his son to be born in his country when that same privilege is extended to all Canadians including you and me.  It would be interested to see how many women in Calliopy's position do not receive prenatal care due to the fact they need to pay 125% of the cost for non Canadians.  Once a baby is born in Canada it is a Canadian and all of our responsibilities whether it is born healthy or god forbid didn't receive proper prenatal care and is born with a disability.   

Calliopy applied for Landed Immigrant status once she was married in Canada.  One of the requirements is for her to submit criminal checks from the countries she has lived in.  She has been waiting for those documents to come in.  Those countries are in no hurry to send those forms back.   There is a problem with our Immigration policies in this country, and lack of knowledge from those working in that field.  She received different answers to the questions she has been asking.  It's interesting to see how many people come forward with the correct answers when it's in the media.  

There was no help for this couple and at this time we had exhausted all of our options.  When I heard that my brother had to apply for a $20,000.00 loan to see his Canadian child brought into this world I felt this was very wrong.   Canadians have been supportive to this plight and have been responding positively from across the country


----------



## LCIS227 (28 Jan 2008)

Funny how most of you state that you don't want to be harsh and such but follow through with a very narrow minded reply to this person problem.

I really don't care that he's military or not. Here's the facts:

A Canadian Citizen is having a child and wants to have the baby in Canada. A fetus is considered a "child" after 6 weeks I believe ? Where you need a death certificate and all that shabbam if there's a miscarriage. So in my mind, the father has a dependant after 6 weeks and all medical costs related to the baby should be covered by our medical system since the father is a Canadian Citizen.

By the sounds of it, a lot of you would enjoy living in the USA.

By the way, even the USA doesn't have a 125% surcharge on medical coverage to non residents.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (28 Jan 2008)

I wonder if those that think it should be covered would feel the same if this whole scenario was from someone of Jamaican decent?

Just asking..........


----------



## garb811 (28 Jan 2008)

When I was out of the country at an Embassy and my wife was having a child, when we returned to Canada to have the child we were charged the nonresident rate because we were not residents in the province.  The PSHCP paid the bill BUT the onus was on us to make sure everything was in place and the hospital demanded cash up front.

I would also point out that this situation is exactly the same as the one any expat Canadian would face if they were working out of the country and moved back to have the child.  We have it easy and presume that we're always going to be covered by Provincial Health care because that's what we're used to.  In some ways the family is getting off lucky, imagine the consequences of a catastrophic car accident or serious illness requiring major medical intervention and a lengthy recovery time.

Strangely enough there was another article the other day about a Canadian who brought his American wife to Canada to give birth.  He's paying too.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (28 Jan 2008)

LCIS227 said:
			
		

> A Canadian Citizen is having a child and wants to have the baby in Canada. A fetus is considered a "child" after 6 weeks I believe ? Where you need a death certificate and all that shabbam if there's a miscarriage. So in my mind, the father has a dependant after 6 weeks and all medical costs related to the baby should be covered by our medical system since the father is a Canadian Citizen.



The soon to be father (he is not one yet since the baby has not been born) may be a citizen but citizenship does not automatically confer eligibity for provincial health insurance coverage on those who may be married to (or be the offspring) of the citizen.  Nor does citizenship automatically confer immediate access of the same provincial coverage on the citizen himself.  The as yet un-born is not a citizen either, nor is he a dependant, since for the purpose of law (the laws and regulations concerning health insurance anyway) , he does not yet exist.

Citizenship Act ( R.S., 1985, c. C-29 )


> PART I  THE RIGHT TO CITIZENSHIP
> Persons who are citizens
> 3. (1) Subject to this Act, *a person is a citizen if
> (a) the person was born in Canada after February 14, 1977*;
> ...



Vital Statistics Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. V.4


> "birth means the complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of a fetus that did at any time after being completely expelled or extracted from the mother breathe or show any other sign of life, whether or not the umbilical cord was cut or the placenta attached;
> 
> "still-birth means the complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of a product of conception either after the twentieth week of pregnancy or after the product of conception has attained the weight of 500 grams or more, and where after such expulsion or extraction there is no breathing, beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord or movement of voluntary muscle.
> 
> ...



Certificates are completed for still-births for the same reason as birth and death certificates.  We want to know how many people we have, that they legally exist and that their existence was not shortened by illegal means.  The completion of certificates for still-births does not confer any rights on a fetus.

Even though you specifically mentioned that it doesn't matter whether he was military,  I'll provide the following.  At one time the CF operated hospitals that provided care to dependants, mainly overseas but also at locations in Canada.  I can't speak personally to any events concerning facilities located in Canada, but at least once in Europe (through a strange turn of circumstances) a CF member's dependant was provided services and he did not have health insurance coverage for the dependant.  He was surprised when presented the bill for the service (all services to non-military patients were billed).  He still had to pay it.


----------



## The Bread Guy (31 Jan 2008)

Not entirely surprised at a political response - wonder if the briefing note that went with this has any footnotes to this thread?  

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

*Health minister to review soldier's case*
James Wood, Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, 31 Jan 08
Article link

REGINA -- Health Minister Don McMorris said Wednesday the province is looking at what it can do to help a Canadian soldier whose family is facing medical bills of more than $20,000 for their expected child.

The case of Master Cpl. Daniel Joudrey, who is stationed at Dundurn and has served in Afghanistan and Bosnia, became public last week.

His wife Calliopi, who is from Cyprus, has not finalized her status as a landed immigrant in Canada and has no medical coverage.

With Calliopi scheduled for a caesarian section on Feb. 5, the family has been told a hospital stay would cost $3,700 per day, not including fees for the surgeon, anesthesiologist or medication.

"I'm very aware of that story," said McMorris following an announcement on new cancer drug funding.

"I want to see what we can do because it just, you know, intuitively, we should be able to do something there but I want to find out whether we can. It's not fair for me to say we're going to do something right now until I find out that we can. But I have the ministry looking at various options."

A Saskatchewan Health official told The National Post last week that non-residents are usually charged 125 per cent by Canadian hospitals because of additional administrative fees.

McMorris would not elaborate on whether the options under consideration include Sask. Health footing the bill, but said he hoped to have an answer potentially as soon as today.

Joudrey, an electrician with the forces, said last week he had sought help from the National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, the provincial Health Ministry and his military superiors with no success.

On Wednesday, the 14-year military veteran said he had not heard anything since but was heartened when told of McMorris's comments.

"It's good to know that it's made it up some sort of channels," said Joudrey, who met his wife in Cypress in 2006 when he was on break from a tour in Afghanistan.

They were married in 2007 but her application for permanent resident status has been delayed by missing paperwork.

jwood@sp.canwest.com


----------



## Gunner98 (1 Feb 2008)

Province to cover medical bill

A military family facing a huge financial burden just days before the birth of their child was thrilled and relieved Thursday as the provincial government stepped in to ensure they would not be stuck with a medical bill of over $20,000. Saskatchewan Party Health Minister Don McMorris said his ministry has asked the Saskatoon Regional Health Authority to not bill the family of Master Cpl. Daniel Joudrey until the paperwork issues are resolved. (James Wood, Province will cover costs of caesarean, RegLP, A8)

Case closed.


----------



## geo (1 Feb 2008)

Gawd... the CF... we ARE the flavour of the day!

ars ago, this issue would have been flushed into oblivion - too bad, so sad

What a difference ten years make


----------



## Blakey (1 Feb 2008)

...and, the link.
http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=9aa4ba8f-8367-4cbf-b253-3891b63a13bf


----------



## PMedMoe (1 Feb 2008)

This opens the door for other people to marry non-residents without doing their homework..... :


----------



## c_canuk (1 Feb 2008)

I'm sorry but if you marry a non citizen and move them to the country and initiate the paperwork in good faith, there should be NO reason health coverage cannot be applied to them. 

The amount of money that is being saved by not providing coverage to people who will be legitimate canadians in a short time is a drop in the bucket compared to what is doled out to people who fly to canada, destroy their paperwork in mid flight then claim refugee status on touchdown. These people get full Canadian benifits while they wait for their hearing which can take up to 6 years if they show up at all.

we can give illegals full coverage but not the wife of a service member? Disgusting.

Just because that is the way the system is set up, doesn't make it right.


----------



## geo (1 Feb 2008)

c_canuk.... cool your jets!

As you said, people who have done all their paperwork in good faith....
Pmedmoe brought up the matter of those who do it out of bad faith...

Disgusting?  Nope - but it IS disturbing


----------



## The Bread Guy (1 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> This opens the door for other people to marry non-residents without doing their homework..... :



Ah yes, the public sector decision cycle:

There is a problem - government must do (or be seen to do) something.
Here is a solution - make it happen.
"We are doing something - here is our solution."


Did the solution solve the problem, though?


----------



## Blackadder1916 (1 Feb 2008)

c_canuk said:
			
		

> I'm sorry but if you marry a non citizen and move them to the country and initiate the paperwork in good faith, there should be NO reason health coverage cannot be applied to them.
> 
> The amount of money that is being saved by not providing coverage to people who will be legitimate canadians in a short time is a drop in the bucket compared to what is doled out to people who fly to canada, destroy their paperwork in mid flight then claim refugee status on touchdown. These people get full Canadian benifits while they wait for their hearing which can take up to 6 years if they show up at all.
> 
> ...



Just so it is clear about this story; (according to the media reports) a foreign national and her (also non-Canadian) nine year old child came to Canada, probably on visitor status (citizens of Cyprus do not normally require a formal visa to visit Canada).  We do not know if she informed the CBSA officer who screened her on arrival if marriage and intention to stay in the country was the purpose of the visit.  
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/arriving.asp


> You will not be allowed into Canada if you give false or incomplete information, or if you do not satisfy the officer that you are eligible for entry into Canada. You will also have to convince the officer that you will leave Canada at the end of your authorized stay in Canada.



After her arrival she married a Canadian citizen whom she had met previously outside Canada.   That her spouse was a Canadian soldier is only incidental but does become significant later.  Luckily for them, Canada’s policy is that spouses (who are already in Canada) of citizens may remain in the country while immigration procedures are ongoing.  If they had married outside Canada, there is a possibility that she may not have been permitted to enter Canada until immigration procedures had been completed.  She subsequently became pregnant and started to incur significant health care costs.

That’s when the significance of her spouse’s employment becomes important.  Canadian soldiers are experiencing a level of public admiration that has not been seen for over 60 years.  If he had been an “ordinary” citizen this story would not, most likely, have received the attention it did.  It is probably the sole reason why the Sask Health Minister flinched.  Flinch may be an inappropriate term because he is a politician and there few politicians who won’t take any opportunity to suck up to the voters by embracing whatever is the current favour of the month.

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=00033bba-6b3f-4456-86e1-6cf18b6b81f8&k=79018


> However, Saskatchewan Party Health Minister Don McMorris said his ministry has asked the Saskatoon Regional Health Authority to not bill the family until the paperwork issues are resolved.
> Once she receives her landed immigrant status, she will then be covered by Medicare and the family won't be charged.
> "As soon as I'm able to get a hold of them, of course they'll be notified their thoughts and attention can be put towards the birth of their child," said McMorris.
> "For most people, myself, it makes sense this person would be covered in our province. We support our forces completely."
> ...



As to a comparison of health benefits available to refugee claimants (“illegals”?) vice those given to “the wife of a service member”; I grant there are problems with our country’s immigration and refugee policies and procedures.  However, provincial health insurance coverage is generally not given to refugee claimants until such time as a determination is made as to status.  There is the Interim Federal Health Program (IFHP) coverage for those refugee claimants and ‘protected persons’ who are unable to afford private insurance or are otherwise ineligible for provincial coverage.  This applies to most in this category, but, while adequate, IFHP does not provide coverage to the same extent as any provincial plan or a full coverage private plan as may be available in Canada.  As administered by FAS Benefits Administrators, it is also (in my personal opinion) a pain in the *** to deal with on the part of providers and as such sometimes becomes a disincentive to regularly provide service to refugee claimants.   But I can also say the same thing (to a much lesser degree) about Blue Cross for CF members.


----------



## armyvern (2 Feb 2008)

LCIS227 said:
			
		

> I really don't care that he's military or not. Here's the facts:
> 
> A Canadian Citizen is having a child and wants to have the baby in Canada. A fetus is considered a "child" after 6 weeks I believe ? Where you need a death certificate and all that shabbam if there's a miscarriage. So in my mind, the father has a dependant after 6 weeks and all medical costs related to the baby should be covered by our medical system since the father is a Canadian Citizen.



Your facts are wrong. As someone who has miscarried at 17 weeks and 15 weeks respectively -- there was *NO * "death certificate and all that shabbam afterwards". Both my husband and I WERE Canadian citizens at the time of my miscarriages. Certainly, a non-citizen would not get "death certificates & all that shabbam" when two citizens are not?

Where you err is here:



> So in my mind, the father has a dependant after 6 weeks (no he does not) and all medical costs related to  directly relating to medical procedures performed *ON* the baby should be covered by our medical system since the father child is a Canadian Citizen.



This is exactly how it IS. The child's medical expenses ARE covered as the child IS a citizen. The MOTHER is not, and therefore HER expenses associated with her medical procedures to have that child are not covered. The father has NO dependant until that child IS born, which of course occurs AFTER the female has already incurred the medical costs to HAVE the child. Labour & delivery (and their associated expenses) comes first --- the child comes after.

That's how it is. Otherwise, you'd have every expectant mother from the United States crossing the border to have their child in this country at OUR expense ... just so they'd have no bills to pay in the US. After all, their child would be a Canadian citizen too if born here.


----------



## muskrat89 (2 Feb 2008)

> Otherwise, you'd have every expectant mother from the United States crossing the border to have their child in this country at OUR expense ... just so they'd have no bills to pay in the US. After all, their child would be a Canadian citizen too if born here.



Which is exactly what happens in the southern border - US states. ERs can't turn people away; babies born here are US citizens, even if the parents are not.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO (2 Feb 2008)

I think it's commendable that the Sask government is helping this family out. I'd like to think they'd do the same for other folks who find themselves in this dilemma too....if we can waste billions on gun registrys and adscams it won't bankrupt us to help people having babies.
I much prefer the system in the US for the military where the whole family is taken care of by the military. Their hospitals have everthing from pediatrics to geriatrics. Care of the military family is better there IMHO.


----------



## Gunner98 (2 Feb 2008)

The US Tricare system pays for more than 9.2 million people (serving, retired and their families) at a cost of close to $30 Billion per year and it is draining the US military coffers.  There is no desire to have civilian health insurance when your care can be provided by the DoD.  It is a double-edged sword.


----------



## The Bread Guy (4 Feb 2008)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> I think it's commendable that the Sask government is helping this family out. I'd like to think they'd do the same for other folks who find themselves in this dilemma too....if we can waste billions on gun registrys and adscams it won't bankrupt us to help people having babies.



Ah, but as Minister Jim Hacker said in "Yes, Minister".... "'This would create a dangerous precedent'. Translation: 'If we do the right thing now, we might have to do the right thing again next time'."

*Family 'betrayed' by government's refusal to pay baby bill*
Sask. government puts bill on hold for military family
CBC.ca, 4 Feb 08
Article link

A Winnipeg man facing a $10,000 bill for his son's birth says the Manitoba government should pay the bill, just as the Saskatchewan government has for a Canadian soldier stationed there.

Mike Kibsey and his American wife Caroline met three years ago in Japan. When she became pregnant last year, they moved to Winnipeg from Asia to have their baby in Canada. At the time, Kibsey said, embassy officials in Manila told them Manitoba Health would cover the cost of the baby's birth.

A credit agency is now threatening legal action against the Kibseys in an attempt to collect a $10,000 bill from the Health Sciences Centre.A credit agency is now threatening legal action against the Kibseys in an attempt to collect a $10,000 bill from the Health Sciences Centre.

But when the baby was born in September, they learned Manitoba Health's policy is to charge non-residents for medical procedures. A credit agency is now threatening legal action against the family in an effort to collect a $10,000 bill.

Manitoba Health officials say new immigrants do not qualify for provincial health insurance until they're granted status by Citizenship and Immigration.

The Kibseys are still waiting for Caroline's application for permanent residency to be processed.

Kibsey recently heard of what he believes is a similar case in Saskatchewan ....


----------



## armyvern (4 Feb 2008)

Qu'elle suprise.

NOT. 

And, I'm sure that both husbands pay their taxes, but one's wife has now been treated specially. 

I now see this heading up to the Supreme Court ... just as it always does when one Province covers something that another does not given Canada's universal healthcare system (that _used_ to be for citizens). 

Let the borders for baby-bearers spring wide open -- I feel an influx coming on. Yay!! Up go my taxes to pay for it all!!  :-\


----------



## PMedMoe (4 Feb 2008)

ArmyVern (Female type) said:
			
		

> Let the borders for baby-bearers spring wide open -- I feel an influx coming on. Yay!! Up go my taxes to pay for it all!!  :-\



Guess that's why I'm paying for Provincial Health care....


----------



## armyvern (4 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Guess that's why I'm paying for Provincial Health care....



Whole other thread on that. Along with the reasons why.


----------



## geo (4 Feb 2008)

Health care comes under provincial jurisdiction.
What one province decides to do does not guarantee that it will be translated to equal service in another.
It's messy but, that's how they wrote the rules & allocated responsibilities... So, for the fella living in Manitoba = deal with it.  For the Sask gov't who has agreed to cover the costs..... you have really put your foot in it this time.


----------



## PMedMoe (4 Feb 2008)

ArmyVern (Female type) said:
			
		

> Whole other thread on that. Along with the reasons why.



Hence the wink. 



			
				geo said:
			
		

> Health care comes under provincial jurisdiction.
> What one province decides to do does not guarantee that it will be translated to equal service in another.
> It's messy but, that's how they wrote the rules & allocated responsibilities... So, for the fella living in Manitoba = deal with it.  For the Sask gov't who has agreed to cover the costs..... you have really put your foot in it this time.



geo, you're right.  The SK gov't has put their foot in it and set a precedent.


----------



## armyvern (4 Feb 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Health care comes under provincial jurisdiction.
> What one province decides to do does not guarantee that it will be translated to equal service in another.
> It's messy but, that's how they wrote the rules & allocated responsibilities... So, for the fella living in Manitoba = deal with it.  For the Sask gov't who has agreed to cover the costs..... you have really put your foot in it this time.



Bet you it still ends up at the Supreme Court arguing "for coverage" -- just like BCs non-coverage of treatment for some autism related healthcare did, just like some Provinces charging user fees while others did not did, just like private clinics did, just like drug coverage differences between provinces did, as sex-change coverage differences for operations did, differences in disability and mental health services and coverage did ... ... etc etc.

Even if they don't win the case -- it's costing taxpayers a small fortune.


----------



## Gunner98 (4 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> geo, you're right.  The SK gov't has put their foot in it and set a precedent.



More specifically, they have ignored the precedents and now face the potential for many refused claims to be appealed/re-opened.


----------



## geo (5 Feb 2008)

Our tax dollars at work.... what else can I say?


----------

