# CMA accreditation??



## BorderMedic

Hi all, just an interesting update I got from the recruiters today, my medical came back all good, so that's cool. Background check is still out I guess. But that doesn't really matter now from what I hear, because the recruiter I talked to today just informed me that as of May 7th, 2010 ALL Ontario colleges except for two have lost their CMA accreditation and are no longer being considered for the NCM-SEP MedTech program?? Just wondering if anybody knows anything about this?

I was just blindsided by this and really just can't believe it. My start date is July 5th....... Not looking to good.


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> the recruiter I talked to today just informed me that as of May 7th, 2010 ALL Ontario colleges except for two have lost their CMA accreditation



CMA Paramedicine:
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
All except two have lost their accreditation??

"Paramedic Education and Training Programs in Ontario":
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ehs/edu/schools.html
All except two have lost their accreditation???

Although retired, I still keep up with the job. That happened a month ago? If true, that would be catastrophic news for the CMA to shut down all but two of the colleges in Ontario. I think  I would have heard about it.

If I were you, I would verify what s/he told you directly with the CMA:
http://www.cma.ca/contactus


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## BorderMedic

I agree with everything you are saying it just doesn't add up, and I drove straight home and checked the CMA website, the college I am accepted to is showing they are accrdited until May 2011, and there current status shows registered.

I also called the college and they said they have no clue as well, I informed them what the recruiter told me, and they said they were going to look into it and have an answer by Monday.

The recruiter mentioned one of the two schools still accredited was Durham, which is also a diploma program, he also mentioned that a bunch of the other schools were working with the CMA to correct the problem. 

I really just don't get it, I know the recruiter is just reading me an email he received from higher up somewhere and it has nothing to do with him, but if this really went down a month ago, I would think a lot of people would be mentioning it, I work with medics every weekend and have heard nothing.


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## PMedMoe

Maybe he meant that the CF will only accept a diploma from the two schools as opposed all of them having lost their CMA accreditation.   ???


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## BorderMedic

Could be, but I had him read me the email at least three times that he received, and from memory it just said that those schools had lost their CMA accreditation and that they were working with them to get it back.

Really something is just not adding up, the CMA site shows tons of schools as being still registered, and I have contacted them directly via email as well. Hopefully with the CMA contacted and the school looking into it as well someone will be able to tell me WTF is going on.

I am really getting discouraged with all this,


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Could be, but I had him read me the email at least three times that he received, and from memory it just said that those schools had lost their CMA accreditation and that they were working with them to get it back.



I made a couple of phone calls this A.M. to people who would know. Nobody in the GTA lost accreditation.


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## BorderMedic

mariomike said:
			
		

> I made a couple of phone calls this A.M. to people who would know. Nobody in the GTA lost accreditation.



Ya like I said, something doesn't seem right, I contacted the school I am supposed to be attending and they have not heard anything about it either, they actually were send me my orientation info an hour after the recruiter told me what had changed. I really just don't know anymore, what I do know is that this system seems to be as organized as well as every other system I have had to deal with. Which isn't exactly encouraging at all.


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## cn

Yes, I got the same call telling me I was taken off the merit list because the school I got into for Med Tech-SEP (CTS, Barrie) was no longer accepted by the CF as one of the colleges you can go to for the PCP course.  

I was informed by the CO at the Mississauga RC that only Cambrian and Durham are the two colleges SEP applicants are approved to go to through that entry plan.  They said the change was made last month but the RC was not made aware of it until last week when they called me.    

And I called both of those schools and they are both full (with waiting lists also full) for this year.  So it seems after waiting to expect a job offer, I am now just waiting.  An extremely disappointing and frustrating situation.


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## mariomike

The good news seems to be that the colleges remain accredited. The bad news is that SEP is only availble for two. 
I wonder what people will do who are not enrolled in either of those colleges? Take the program on their own time and expense, and apply to the CF as Med Techs after they graduate. Or, drop out of the program, and apply for another job in the CF?


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## cn

mariomike said:
			
		

> The good news seems to be that the colleges remain accredited. The bad news is that SEP is only available for two.
> I wonder what people will do who are not enrolled in either of those colleges? Take the program on their own time and expense, and apply to the CF as Med Techs after they graduate. Or, drop out of the program, and apply for another job in the CF?



That is an option, but unfortunately for myself I am not in a position financially to be able to do this.  I've been weighing my options since I got that call and am still undecided on picking a new trade, waiting until (if) an unskilled spot opens up, wait until Sept. 2011 to try and get into those two still approved, or possibly taking a student loan to go to school (which seems unlikely for my present situation)?

Has this happened before?  Have the policies changed like this for other trades/colleges?  I'm just curious as to why this decision was made, why these 2 schools are the only ones *now* approved for SEP and not the other still accredited PCP courses at other schools (that were fine up until last month)?


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## mariomike

cn said:
			
		

> That is an option, but unfortunately for myself I am not in a position financially to be able to do this.  I've been weighing my options since I got that call and am still undecided on picking a new trade, waiting until (if) an unskilled spot opens up, wait until Sept. 2011 to try and get into those two still approved, or possibly taking a student loan to go to school (which seems unlikely for my present situation)?
> 
> Has this happened before?  Have the policies changed like this for other trades/colleges?  I'm just curious as to why this decision was made, why these 2 schools are the only ones *now* approved for SEP and not the other still accredited PCP courses at other schools (that were fine up until last month)?



You could wait another year and try for Cambrian or Durham. But, what are the odds of being accepted? I called the Dean of Paramedicine at Humber College in Toronto only five weeks ago and she told me that every year she has 2,500 applicants for 70 positions. 
How many will be applying for how many SEP positions available in Ontario in 2011? That is anyone's guess. 
If you take it on your own time and expense, you have the option of applying to both the CF, or a municipality. But, I can tell you that now it is degrees, not diplomas, they ( Metro ) are looking for. In recent years, more than half ( and rapidly increasing ) of the new recruits at T-EMS come with degrees in paramedicine. Honours B. Sc.:
http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~jtprogs/paramedicine.html


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## Armymedic

Why not just get into the Reg F and let them pay for your education?


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## mariomike

SFB said:
			
		

> Why not just get into the Reg F and let them pay for your education?



There is an educational difference between SEP and Direct Entry.

SEP at Durham College or Cambrian College is a diploma ( as are all Paramedic education programs in Ontario ): 
http://www.cambriancollege.ca/Programs/Programs/201009PARA.HTM
https://myplace.durhamcollege.ca/durham/program.do?from=subject&programID=1312

Justice Institute is a certificate:
http://learning.jibc.ca/TPOnline/TPOnline.dll/Public%20Program/PROGRAMNO=PROG2003091915194505149505

With the phone calls that went out to SEP applicants yesterday, SEP may no longer be possible for many. They may now decide to apply for Direct Entry instead.


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## BorderMedic

SFB said:
			
		

> Why not just get into the Reg F and let them pay for your education?



Aside from the fact that yes it is only a certificate from the Reg force, there was only one spot for NCM Med-Tech as of April first, and there WERE 28 for NCM-SEP as of April first.

And yes we have acceptance so we could just go on our on, except I have not acquired the funding to do so myself since that is what the NCM-SEP program was for, and my present timeline does not allow for additional funding to be found at this point. The recruiter did say that the CMA and the armed forces was working with them to get their accreditation back so depending on that timeline this still may be a plausable option. Otherwise I'm thinking trade change, which pretty much sickens me. ( you would have to understand how much being a medic means to me...) OR I may just go state side again, and pick up my EMT-P which gives me ALS anyway. I'm getting to the point where I would rather dig my old vest out of the closet and get half the pay for twice the danger then deal with this crap.

I realize that the CF or any other organization owes me nothing, but this is the second time I have put months planning and months of doing everything I was told getting this shot, this exam, go here, go there. Just to have it ripped away when I am so close. It left a bad taste in my mouth the first time, it is not getting any better.


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## Armymedic

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Aside from the fact that yes it is only a certificate from the Reg force, there was only one spot for NCM Med-Tech as of April first, and there WERE 28 for NCM-SEP as of April first.



Ah, seen. Did not know that entry was so limited. 

But as for the other issue, certified vs diploma, in my personal view (who did his training at Humber before we got either) that the fact of having a steady pay check, with the ability to upgrade your education to meet civilian employment requirements makes sense to me.

It is not much different than what is happening in the PA world as well.

Border, all I can do is wish you the best of luck.


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> OR I may just go state side again, and pick up my EMT-P which gives me ALS anyway. I'm getting to the point where I would rather dig my old vest out of the closet and get half the pay for twice the danger then deal with this crap.



Everyone is hired as a PCP. When there is an internal vacancy for ACP, it is filled by PCP's through the "Senior Qualified Process". The internal "Relative Ability Process" only applies to Critical Care Transport Paramedics" CCTU. Seniority only governs promotion from ACP to CCTU when qualifications, experience, education and ability to perform the work are equal.
  


			
				SFB said:
			
		

> the fact of having a steady pay check,



That is the best advice. The CF ( any trade ) offers good pay, benefits and a pension. And other things that are important to be happy.


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## Civvymedic

I've spent the weekend trying to affirm my assumptions on this matter before I comment.

  I have spoken to several Ontario College faculty members and others who would know, I also submitted my application for semiskilled Med-Tech a couple of years ago.

  Here's the scoop: Yes Cambrian and Durham are CMA accredited. It's not a matter of the other Ontario colleges losing there CMA accreditation for PCP it's that they never were CMA accredited. Why? because it's not worth it to them. Ontario colleges are overwhelmed with applications and it's not really worth the time and expense to pursue the accreditation, it does nothing for them really. If a PCP from an Ontario college wants to go work in another Province they just apply for equivalency, may write an exam and there is no difference from an applicant of a CMA approved Ontario College. I have a College faculty member next to me now in the ER.

 As an example I went to Centennial College for PCP. (1 year Diploma) now it's 2. Not CMA accredited but I went to work in Nova Scotia with no issues and it was also approved by the CF through a PLAR for both SAR and MED-Tech.

  To use the Centennial example, that course is a 2 year Diploma with extensive clinical in the Toronto area and it's credits are fully transferable with the University of Toronto for a 4 year degree in Paramedicine. Either 2 years at Centennial then 2 at U of T or 1 year Centennial  year U of T x 2 etc. They could easily exceed the CMA standards but haven't applied for that accreditation. Being a federal agency I can see the Military needing the CMA accreditation but it isn't essential.


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## mariomike

I was wondering how CMA could suddenly pull the plug on a place like Humber College. It's the grand-daddy of them all.
(It is just as much accredited as either Cambrian or Durham Colleges, see end of post ): 
"This new program, which started in September 1972 at Humber College with a class of 25 students, provided 1,400 hours of theoretical, practical, clinical and field training. The college paramedicine program is now typically two years long, and still provides the standard for entry-level training into the field.":

Humber College became mandatory for those who joined after 1 Aug. 1975.
Those of us who hired on the department prior to that, were sent to our academy downtown at Bay and Belmont St. They sent me to Humber College in 1981. I was on the second last class of Metro "grandfathers" ever sent there. Some of the guys failed, but nobody ever got fired ( although there were exceptions ). I remember taking a final exam with one of our "higher ups"  sitting beside me. He threw his pen across the room in disgust. "What the F#$% do they think we are, a bunch of F$#@ing doctors!" hahaha 
We really relaxed and had a good time there. It was the first, last and only time we got a real break from Operations, so we made the most of it. They didn't insist that we wear our uniforms, but we had to keep them in our cars. Some classes were called out, but ours never was.
I remember a professor there who made us sit cross-legged on the floor, face to face with another guy ( it was all men back then ), hold both hands, look into each others eyes for what seemed to be an eternity and not say a word! hahaha They called it "sensitivity training". Gosh it was funny. 

CMA shows Humber and Algonquin Colleges as accredited. Unclear why they are not approved for SEP:
Humber College: "Status: 6-Year Accreditation. Expiry date: 2013/02/28" 
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
Apparently, "6-year" is CMA's top rating for Paramedic colleges.
Just a guess, but perhaps the CF would prefer not to enter into too many SEP agreements with other equally accredited colleges, such as Algonquin or Humber? Perhaps Durham and Cambrian are enough to meet their recruitment needs, _at this time_?   

CMA "Important Notices": "Advertising regarding accreditation":
http://www.cma.ca/important%20notices

"General information on the CMA accreditation process":
http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Accreditation/pdf/general_info_process.pdf
http://www.cma.ca/accreditationprocess


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## BorderMedic

SFB said:
			
		

> that the fact of having a steady pay check, with the ability to upgrade your education to meet civilian employment requirements makes sense to me.



With this I could not agree more, I want to be a medic, more so a medic in the armed forces. And would love the opportunity to work towards my PA, and that is still my main goal, I cannot think of anything better than steady pay, a good pension, and doing what I love to do, for my country at that.

I'm just not exactly sure how to go about that at the moment.........

The reality of getting into one of those two colleges for next year pretty slim. I may have a better chance of CTS getting their accreditation, or the CF taking me straight in as a medic. or finishing state side since I do live in a border town, and already hold my EMT-B.   

As for CTS getting their accreditation the CMA website shows them as registered.
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
So maybe they are on their way to being accredited, I will be waiting for their reply tomorrow, as they were informed of this problem on Friday as well. And they assured me "they were accredited and were going to look in it" I'm not holding my breathe on this one.

And of course there is always a trade change, they are looking for some sort of electronics trade, not sure of the trade name just know it was an NCM-SEP program and you had to be accepted into a Electronics Technologist program. This would be far more plausible to get into, I currently work as a controls technician. And if medic is completely unavailable to me, then for the chance to have gainful guaranteed employment I would do it.




			
				SFB said:
			
		

> Border, all I can do is wish you the best of luck.



Thanks, seems like I don't have much of that.


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## cn

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> With this I could not agree more, I want to be a medic, more so a medic in the armed forces. And would love the opportunity to work towards my PA, and that is still my main goal, I cannot think of anything better than steady pay, a good pension, and doing what I love to do, for my country at that.
> 
> I'm just not exactly sure how to go about that at the moment.........
> 
> The reality of getting into one of those two colleges for next year pretty slim. I may have a better chance of CTS getting their accreditation, or the CF taking me straight in as a medic. or finishing state side since I do live in a border town, and already hold my EMT-B.
> 
> As for CTS getting their accreditation the CMA website shows them as registered.
> http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
> So maybe they are on their way to being accredited, I will be waiting for their reply tomorrow, as they were informed of this problem on Friday as well. And they assured me "they were accredited and were going to look in it" I'm not holding my breathe on this one.
> 
> And of course there is always a trade change, they are looking for some sort of electronics trade, not sure of the trade name just know it was an NCM-SEP program and you had to be accepted into a Electronics Technologist program. This would be far more plausible to get into, I currently work as a controls technician. And if medic is completely unavailable to me, then for the chance to have gainful guaranteed employment I would do it.
> 
> 
> Thanks, seems like I don't have much of that.



I know for a fact that CTS is is CMA registered.  However the only reason you cannot go there for the SEP is simply because it was recently taken off the CF's list of approved colleges (all but Durham and Cambrian).  I spoke to the PCP program coordinator during my selection interview into the college and he assured me that they were CMA accredited.  

I do hope they change their minds on this (because I bent-over-backwards to get in to CTS just to do the SEP) but you are right that the time line on this may not be something to hold your breath for.  

I'm in the same position as you BM, with the same career goals so we both have lots of thinking to do... It seems you're having as difficult a time as me, so I know where you're coming from.. Good luck with everything, hopefully it all works out for both of us.


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## BorderMedic

cn said:
			
		

> I do hope they change their minds on this (because I bent-over-backwards to get in to CTS just to do the SEP) but you are right that the time line on this may not be something to hold your breath for.



That would be fantastic, there are really very few options for people in our position. But as long as CTS is going to work towards getting back on that list and the CF is willing to let schools try there is a bit of hope. I have a July 5th start date but was able to negotiate a second start date for the Jan/2011 course if the CF was not done my App in time. So my hopes are now with that. 



			
				cn said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that CTS is is CMA registered



just to add, it does say registered, but some of the schools say accredited, I wonder what the difference is?


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> just to add, it does say registered, but some of the schools say accredited, I wonder what the difference is?



"CMA: Requirements for accreditation" : http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Accreditation/pdf/requirements.pdf

"Registration for first accreditation" : 
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=90028&la_id=1

CTS is "An accredited private career college,"
http://www.trade-schools.ca/cts-canadian-career-college/default.asp

But:
"At the program level, community college programs are eligible for accreditation by professional accrediting agencies. Professional accreditation means a specific department or program has been evaluated as meeting the standards of the accrediting agency of a certain profession.":
http://www.schoolsincanada.com/Community-College-Accreditation-in-Canada.cfm


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## BorderMedic

Talked with recruiters, and CTS, and emailed the CMA (they never responded).

Not many options from the recruiter, and CTS says they are looking into getting back on the list, although if their stumbling block is the CMA approval we will be waiting a while, they are scheduled to be evaluated May 2011. So I will not be waiting around for that.

Time to explore other options..........


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## funkmasta

WOW

This is devastating news... How can they do this to people who have been working hard to get in to their school of choice. (on the APPROVED LIST of course) 

I was accepted to durham college, but I chose to go to accept Humber because I have heard it is a better school. I am waiting to hear from a lieutenant at my RC on tuesday about some "Policy Changes" that were taking place. I really hope that they can work this BS out. 

I am now expecting the worst, and if what I am reading is true, and I do not receive this job offer simply because they CF decided to pull the plug on my school, I wouldn't know what to think.

So now I wait 2 days and keep keeping my fingers crossed.


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## mariomike

funkmasta said:
			
		

> So now I wait 2 days and keep keeping my fingers crossed.



Good luck on that, Funkmasta.
Do not forget - Humber is an accredited program:
"Status: 6-Year Accreditation. Expiry date: 2013/02/28"


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## BorderMedic

They may show that they are accredited, but as of last Friday, they were still not on the CF approved list. And he also confirmed that Ontario schools were not the only one's taken off the list. 

Of course as so many of us are finding out already, NOTHING is concrete with the Canadian Forces. They could very well be approved by Monday.

*he being the recruiter.


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## funkmasta

Has anyone received any more information as to what is going on? What will be the options of those who are qualified applicants, but are enrolled in schools that have been dropped?

I am going to call CFRC Kitchener tomorrow and find out exactly what's going on here.


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## cn

funkmasta said:
			
		

> Has anyone received any more information as to what is going on? What will be the options of those who are qualified applicants, but are enrolled in schools that have been dropped?
> 
> I am going to call CFRC Kitchener tomorrow and find out exactly what's going on here.



Yes, I was one of the unlucky few to have been merit listed only to be taken off because the school I was accepted to was taken off the list suddenly.  Both the school (CTS) and my recruiter have told me they are being reviewed by the CMA to get their accreditation back and if/when that happens then I can continue with SEP.  If not, or if it takes long enough (is not completed by the new fiscal year) then I was told that we would just be taken in as unskilled direct entry applicants.

What I've done in the meantime is had my acceptance to CTS moved from the Sept. '10 course start to the Jan. '11 start to hopefully give them more time to get approved (hopefully in time), because ideally I'd rather go through a diploma program than the JIBC's certificate.  But if somewhere along the line they offer me direct entry then I'd take it.  

The only thing I can do on my end is wait it out and see what happens, and if you're in a similar situation that's all you can do as well.  Keep in touch with the RC and see if they've made any progress with your school getting back on the list, cross your fingers and be patient.  Good luck to you all..


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## PMedMoe

Excellent advice, cn!!   :nod:


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## funkmasta

Fairly devastating news as far as humber.
The NCM SEP is available for CMA accredited Primary Care Paramedic PCP programs.

http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON
Notice that the affiliation between Humber and the CMA is for the Advanced Care Paramedic program.


I was in touch with the program cordinatior for the PCP program, and she said exactly this.
"We have never had CMA accreditation for our PCP program."

I also can't get a hold of anyone at the recruiting detachment. I even got an answering machine when pressed 0 for the operator.......


So very frustrating...


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## funkmasta

Just got all of this info confirmed. Durham and Cambrian are the only options for the NCM SEP. 

I was advised to apply to those schools, both of which are full, and definitely not accepting applications. 

My dad and I will be contacting his lawyer likely tomorrow.


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## PMedMoe

funkmasta said:
			
		

> My dad and I will be contacting his lawyer likely tomorrow.



To do what, exactly?


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## mariomike

funkmasta said:
			
		

> I was in touch with the program cordinatior for the PCP program, and she said exactly this.
> "We have never had CMA accreditation for our PCP program."



The two Toronto PCP programs, Humber and Centennial ( I do not see Centennial on the CMA link ), were ( are? ) affiliated with the Christopher J. Rubes Centre for EMS Studies. The Rubes Centre is operated directly by T-EMS, and has been accredited by the Canadian Medical Association since 1993. 
Rubes Centre is still CMA accredited for ACP, both internal and regional.:
http://torontoems.ca/main-site/careers/regional-acp.html

But, for PCP:
Status: Voluntary Withdrawal. Effective date: 2009/06/02 
http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON

At this time, Rubes Centre is closed due to G20:
http://torontoems.ca/main-site/private/blogs/education1/?p=25


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## funkmasta

mariomike said:
			
		

> The two Toronto PCP programs, Humber and Centenial ( I do not see Centenial on the CMA link ), were affiliated with the Christopher J. Rubes Centre for EMS Studies. The Rubes Centre is operated directly by T-EMS, and has been accredited by the Canadian Medical Association since 1993.
> Rubes Centre is still CMA accredited for ACP, both internal and regional. But, for PCP:
> Status: Voluntary Withdrawal. Effective date: 2009/06/02
> http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=50602&la_id=1#PARA-ON




So why would Humber be on the list of accepted schools as of February 2010, the deadline for ontario college applications?? I followed the process that was set out by the CF, and applied to the schools that I was told were accepted for the program.




			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> To do what, exactly?




Likely to waste my money


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## GAP

He's entitled to his entitlements....


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## medicineman

funkmasta said:
			
		

> Likely to waste my money



I'd have to agree - websites and lists are subject to change frequently and without notice...forget the fact that the CF in and of itself doesn't actually owe you anything.  The way I see it, you have three options - if you want to go the SEP route, apply for a later start at one of the other colleges, wait in line in the recruiting process to go through the training with the CF or if you really want to be a paramedic, apply for a later start at the college of your choice and do it yourself.

MM


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## Rafterman1

Hang in there Funkmasta.  Referring to the list of CMA PCP schools, you should give every school a shout and see if you can get into their PCP/EMT programs within due time.  The worst they can say is no were full, but get put on all of the cancellation lists for all CMA PCP/EMT schools across Canada.  The PCP course I took, there were 2 people who backed out last minute.  It happens.  :2c:


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## cn

Rafterman1 said:
			
		

> Hang in there Funkmasta.  Referring to the list of CMA PCP schools, you should give every school a shout and see if you can get into their PCP/EMT programs within due time.  The worst they can say is no were full, but get put on all of the cancellation lists for all CMA PCP/EMT schools across Canada.  The PCP course I took, there were 2 people who backed out last minute.  It happens.  :2c:



That was one option I explored when I first heard the news, so I called both Cambrian and Durham and both said the programs were not only full, but also had full waiting lists.  This means that even if everyone enrolled in the course were to back out before the start date, there are enough people on the waiting lists for both schools to fill those positions.  As a result, both schools are not even taking applications anymore, the earliest you can now apply for admittance is for Sept. 2011.


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## Rafterman1

cn said:
			
		

> That was one option I explored when I first heard the news, so I called both Cambrian and Durham and both said the programs were not only full, but also had full waiting lists.  This means that even if everyone enrolled in the course were to back out before the start date, there are enough people on the waiting lists for both schools to fill those positions.  As a result, both schools are not even taking applications anymore, the earliest you can now apply for admittance is for Sept. 2011.



Did you call other PCP/EMT schools outside of Ontario?


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## cn

Rafterman1 said:
			
		

> Did you call other PCP/EMT schools outside of Ontario?



No, just Ontario.  But from what was explained to me, the CMA issue is county wide, many of the PCP/EMT programs lost their accreditation in other provinces as well so I'd imagine there is a similar situation in other areas as well.  

For my situation personally, I'm not really able to go elsewhere for now (unless I'm getting the help from SEP or direct entry).


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## kincanucks

Still trying to figure out why the CF is to blame for this?


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## cn

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Still trying to figure out why the CF is to blame for this?



I don't think that was directed at me (or my previous posts) but I don't blame the CF for any of this.  I'll admit it is very frustrating (because it is completely out of our hands) and was extremely unexpected (because I was referred there by my RC) but was just bad luck it happened when it did.  I went from waiting for a job offer to just plain waiting and now this just strengthens my resolve to get in and gives me more time to prepare.  

(out of my lane but...) If anything, this may be a good thing for those of us coming in, because in theory, this will help to create and maintain a nation wide standard for all PCPs.


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## mariomike

cn said:
			
		

> If anything, this may be a good thing for those of us coming in, because in theory, this will help to create and maintain a nation wide standard for all PCPs.



I don't know if you saw this, cn, but they are working on it:
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=511429


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## cn

mariomike said:
			
		

> I don't know if you saw this, cn, but they are working on it:
> http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=511429



Not that particular article, but I have heard of them trying to do this for a while now.  And that's exactly what I'm talking about, hopefully this will all work out and benefit us all in the long run.  

P.S. mariomike, you continue to amaze me with all the articles and links you provide in this and all other topics.  A big thanks to you for all the research you provide to myself and all the other members here.


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## Otis

ALL:

Trust me when I say that this whole issue camer as a surprise to those of us in the RC's as much as it came as a surprise to you.

As for calling lawyers etc etc ... don't waste your time ... all advice is given in good faith, with the info we have at the time, and changes happen ... in the last two years I've seen schools added, schools dropped and schools added again without rhyme or reason to the approved NCM SEP list. Some VERY good, very noteworthy programs are not acceptable for whatever reason.

CN: if you need a list of approved programs outside on ONT, PM me with your person e-mail and I will let you know what I can.

ALSO: for those of you trying to contact the Toronto RC - we are closed to the public this week! We open again next TUESDAY (the 29th)


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## mariomike

cn said:
			
		

> P.S. mariomike, you continue to amaze me with all the articles and links you provide in this and all other topics.  A big thanks to you for all the research you provide to myself and all the other members here.



My pleasure, cn. Thanks for the kind words.


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## funkmasta

Well in ontario there are now 3 schools including Durham, Cambrian and now Lambton, in Sarnia.

Lambton was the first school I was accepted in to, and I rushed my acceptance letter along with my application in to the Kitchener CFRC. Because I decided to go to Humber I turned down my acceptance, but fortunately after a few emails back and forth with Lambton, I have been re admitted.

I am excited by this opportunity, BUT I still have many concerns... 
Since I was taken off the merit list, when I am put back on, will I have any less of a chance as if this mix up had never occurred? I suppose anyones oppinion is appreciated, but I need to ask these questions to an officer.


Anyways I suppose there is good news for all in that another school has been approved, which possibly indicates more on the way.. but possibly not


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## cn

Otis said:
			
		

> CN: if you need a list of approved programs outside on ONT, PM me with your person e-mail and I will let you know what I can.



PM inbound.




			
				funkmasta said:
			
		

> Anyways I suppose there is good news for all in that another school has been approved, which possibly indicates more on the way.. but possibly not



That's very good news, it means steps in the right direction.  Slow progress is still progress and hopefully there are more to follow soon.


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## M.hutch

It seems that if you were already offered a job, it doesn't matter if the school was dropped. Am I the only one who was offered a job at one of the schools mentioned here that did not receive a call? You guys have me worried here, suppose to be going to school in sept.


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## cn

M.hutch said:
			
		

> It seems that if you were already offered a job, it doesn't matter if the school was dropped. Am I the only one who was offered a job at one of the schools mentioned here that did not receive a call? You guys have me worried here, suppose to be going to school in sept.



From what I was told, if you received your job offer prior to the school being taken off the list you should be fine.  If you got your call and all the appropriate paper work was done already they were not gonna take back an offer, just not enroll any new candidates.  

If you are at all concerned, contact your CFRC and double check, or perhaps one of the recruiters on here may know and can confirm before Monday.


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## BorderMedic

Hmmm, just called a recruiter asked about still being allowed to go if I had an offer....... told me "Not a chance, no grandfathering if your school was dropped your not going, go find another school".  

guess your recruiter is having a better day than mine.


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## cn

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Hmmm, just called a recruiter asked about still being allowed to go if I had an offer....... told me "Not a chance, no grandfathering if your school was dropped your not going, go find another school".
> 
> guess your recruiter is having a better day than mine.



Hmm.. I guess so, I didn't inquire further about that just because I didn't have an offer yet so it was irrelevant in my situation but that's what I was told.  If that is the case, it's an even more unfortunate situation all around..


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## BorderMedic

It really is an unfortunate situation all around for anyone involved. And for all I know the local recruiter was doing just fine the other day. I'm just not to thrilled about the whole mess.

But he did mention that they are going to move about 15 of the NCM-SEP spots and accept direct entry "semi skilled" people, so get your PLAR's started now! if you are lucky enough to fit that category.


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## Rafterman1

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> he did mention that they are going to move about 15 of the NCM-SEP spots and accept direct entry "semi skilled" people, so get your PLAR's started now! if you are lucky enough to fit that category.



Very unfortunite situation for you guys.  I have been following the ordeal with CMA and the Ontario schools.   But I noticed you metioned this; which I have quoted Bordermedic.  When were you notifed of this switch from SEP to Semi-Skilled?  Also, was the recruiter positive the switch would be written in stone?


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## BorderMedic

Rafterman1 said:
			
		

> was the recruiter positive the switch would be written in stone?



I'm not to sure anything is from what I have seen so far......

He just mentioned that since so many schools were dropped and a bunch of possible medics with them, that they were given instructions to try and get 15 or so semi skilled people in that way, and they would be using spots reserved for the NCM-SEP program. So I figured what the heck may as well let them look at my background.... Can't hurt. In the meantime I am still applying at other schools.

Just thought I would relay the message is all.


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## mariomike

I collected some material. It is relevant for Ontario. I posted it in Emergency Services. 
It may, or may not, be of interest to readers of this topic:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/94469/post-941892.html#msg941892


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## funkmasta

I got the job offer 9am this morning.
Starting Sept7 lambton college PARA program, sworn in aug 19th.


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## Rafterman1

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Thanks for doing so.  Ive been now bugging my file manager even more to find out more on this.


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## BorderMedic

That I know is true, they took my info for a PLAR weeks ago, he said that it still shows the spots as NCM-SEP because there is not a spot in the system to show as semi-skilled, but they are looking for about 15 people.

Also have just heard that they are going to grandfather in people who had college acceptance into a program even if that college was dropped.??

we shall see where that goes...


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## Rafterman1

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> they took my info for a PLAR weeks ago


My file manager metioned she will complete a PLAR for myself today.

As for the 15 Semi-Skilled spots. I hope I get offered one.  But I get my hopes up to much with the CF.  As do so many others. lol.    >


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## BorderMedic

So a little more news from the CFRC, apparently if  you were given college acceptance into a listed program before they changed the rules you will be "Grandfathered" into the program you were previously accepted into.....  IF it starts in September..... (mine of course  starts in January) BUT if your program starts later than September then they will review it and make a case by case decision.

Just thought I would share what was mentioned to me.....

Bye.


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## cn

I also got a call informing me of the "grandfather clause" for people that were already accepted before the policy changes.  I was told I was back on the merit list and got the offer call on the following business day.  

Hopefully everything works out soon for all the others waiting.


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