# Nearly the end of the MLVW?



## FormerHorseGuard (18 Dec 2013)

read this news story but not sure if it means the end of the MLVW or not.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/army-parks-big-little-trucks-order-keep-tanks-210459327.html


OTTAWA - The Canadian Army has parked some of its big trucks and smaller transports to save money.
Defence sources say the decision affects up to half the army's so-called B-fleet, including heavy and medium trucks used to transport troops and equipment, as well as support vehicles, such as ambulances.
Military records indicate there are a total of some 6,800 trucks among the affected fleets.
National Defence confirms the move, but an official says it involves vehicles too expensive to maintain and due to be replaced. The spokesman would not say how many vehicles were being mothballed.
The sources say the commander of the army, Lt.-Gen. Marquis Hainse, presented the strategy at recent command council meeting.
The savings are apparently being plowed back into keeping the army's fleet of armoured vehicles, including Leopard 2 tanks and light armoured vehicles, on the road.
Since the end of the Afghan war, the army has seen cuts to its budget of up to 22 per cent. The decision has left commanders trying to figure out how to maintain a high-level of training and readiness.
It also comes as the Harper government wrestles with the idea of spending $2.1 billion on a new fleet of close-combat vehicles — a decision made more complicated by the concerns within the army that it can't afford to drive and maintain them.
Army officials decline to say what the impact of the order might be. Although it is widely anticipated that soldiers, who would normally be driven to training areas and exercises, will now have to march.
Army spokesman Doug Drever painted the decision to take the trucks off the road as part of the normal financial-management process where available funds are "reallocated to higher priorities."
Most of the army's trucks are between 20 and 30 years old.
"A number of the Canadian Army logistic support vehicles are nearing the end of their life expectancy and are growing more expensive to maintain," Drever said in an email.
"With the end of the mission in Afghanistan, reduced operational demands on the Canadian Army and being in a time of financial restraint it is prudent that we do not spend significant amounts of money to repair certain aging vehicles when we know we will need to transition to new ones before too long."
Mechanics have been asked to assess each vehicle, and those in the need of the most upkeep will be parked and cannibalized for parts.
Drever says essential medium-sized vehicles, such as ambulances and communications trucks, will be retained.
The Harper government has long promised to buy new trucks for the army.
The medium support vehicle system program was first conceived in 2006 as an "urgent requirement," but it took two years before defence companies were asked if they were interested in bidding on the $430-million program.
Planning was still stalled in 2011 when Public Works was forced to adjust the requirements. In 2012, the Conservatives shut it down altogether and started anew.
Some defence publications have suggested the military won't able to conduct large-scale deployments overseas until it gets new trucks.


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## chrisf (18 Dec 2013)

I thought the MLVWs were done already? I haven't seen one that's "serviceable" in a while.


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## FormerHorseGuard (18 Dec 2013)

Have seen lots of them on the road around Renfrew Ontario, everything from drivers course ( student driver signs) and on large exercise in the area. Only 1 hour drive from Petawawa main gate


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## pbi (18 Dec 2013)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> Have seen lots of them on the road around Renfrew Ontario, everything from drivers course ( student driver signs) and on large exercise in the area. Only 1 hour drive from Petawawa main gate



I thought the Stirling product was taking the place of the MLVW? Or is that only for Res units?


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## George Wallace (18 Dec 2013)

How many times does one have to reiterate the POINT:

Any fleet of vehicles needs to move to stay in good repair.  You CAN NOT park any fleet of vehicles for any period of time without incurring expensive repairs.  Vehicles need to move to keep the parts, seals, etc. in good condition.  The long term parking a fleet of vehicles is only a "saving five cents today and costing a dollar tomorrow" solution.  (Case in point:  MLVW fleet was grounded in past for problem with wheels.  Repair costs escalated when other parts of vehicles deteriorated due to long term storage awaiting solution to problem that grounded fleet.)

Even your own personal vehicle at home needs to be run on a regular basis.  Ever notice how, after being parked for a long period, it doesn't seem perform at an optimal level, perhaps having leaking fluids, low tire pressure, sudden mechanical breakdown, or some other problem?


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## pbi (18 Dec 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> How many times does one have to reiterate the POINT:
> 
> Any fleet of vehicles needs to move to stay in good repair.  You CAN NOT park any fleet of vehicles for any period of time without incurring expensive repairs.  Vehicles need to move to keep the parts, seals, etc. in good condition.  The long term parking a fleet of vehicles is only a "saving five cents today and costing a dollar tomorrow" solution.  (Case in point:  MLVW fleet was grounded in past for problem with wheels.  Repair costs escalated when other parts of vehicles deteriorated due to long term storage awaiting solution to problem that grounded fleet.)
> 
> Even your own personal vehicle at home needs to be run on a regular basis.  Ever notice how, after being parked for a long period, it doesn't seem perform at an optimal level, perhaps having leaking fluids, low tire pressure, sudden mechanical breakdown, or some other problem?



Amen to that. 

I served in two AVGP battalions (incl as OC Admin where I owned the maintenance nigtmare), and this is exactly what we did to the Grizzlies. Because the Inf resolutely refused to push for hangars (something our Cavalry brethren understood years ago...),  the fleets rotted as they spent weeks and months parked. Seals, in particular, went bad, along with optics. When the LAVs started to come on board (starting with the Coyote), the Inf again loudly proclaimed that it was not going to give up "bayonets" to get "wrenches", and initially at least once again did nothing about hangars.

You can't get these complex pieces of kit and then not make the investment/effort to look after them. Maybe the Army is better off with a fleet of simple, reliable trucks than compounds full of "CCVs" etc. that we can't (or won't...) maintain.

IMHO, as a retired Inf, we never really seem to get this fleet management thing right.


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## dapaterson (18 Dec 2013)

pbi said:
			
		

> I thought the Stirling product was taking the place of the MLVW? Or is that only for Res units?



Only in the P Res (in theory) as the MSVS project is to deliver an SMP vehicle as well.  That particular procurement has been, for lack of a better word, jinxed.

There's also the Logisitics Vehicle Modernization Project o nthe books to replace the LSVW, HLVW and a few other micro fleets; it's getting about the same traction as MSVS-SMP.


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## MJP (18 Dec 2013)

Parked fleet rust out is only a concern if you plan on driving those vehicles again.  Considering how short the system is of parts and the folks to maintain them (especially if CCV & TAPV go through), I would be surprised if they weren't stripped of usable parts for the oldest vehs and never used again.  For some vehs it makes sense to park but treat properly to use later on as the non rationalized vehs break down BER.


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## PPCLI Guy (18 Dec 2013)

MJP said:
			
		

> Parked fleet rust out is only a concern if you plan on driving those vehicles again.  Considering how short the system is of parts and the folks to maintain them (especially if CCV & TAPV go through), I would be surprised if they weren't stripped of usable parts for the oldest vehs and never used again.  For some vehs it makes sense to park but treat properly to use later on as the non rationalized vehs break down BER.



Exactly.  As I understand it, the plan calls for many of the "reduced" vehicles to be stripped for parts.  This will hopefully allow the remaining fleet to run until we get new trucks around 2022.


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## Old EO Tech (22 Dec 2013)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> Exactly.  As I understand it, the plan calls for many of the "reduced" vehicles to be stripped for parts.  This will hopefully allow the remaining fleet to run until we get new trucks around 2022.



Yes that may very well keep the remaining fleet in operations, but it remains to be seen how the CA survives with half the logistics fleet until 2023 :-/


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## Ludoc (22 Dec 2013)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Yes that may very well keep the remaining fleet in operations, but it remains to be seen how the CA survives with half the logistics fleet until 2023 :-/



http://www.mississauga.com/news-story/4276172-army-parks-trucks-in-bid-for-savings/


> Defence sources say the decision affects up to half the army's so-called B-fleet, including heavy and medium trucks used to transport troops and equipment, as well as support vehicles, such as ambulances.  ... Army officials decline to say what the impact of the order might be. Although it is widely anticipated that soldiers, who would normally be driven to training areas and exercises, will now have to march.



I, for one, look forward to marching from Edmonton to Wainwright this Spring.


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## PuckChaser (22 Dec 2013)

Ludoc said:
			
		

> http://www.mississauga.com/news-story/4276172-army-parks-trucks-in-bid-for-savings/
> I, for one, look forward to marching from Edmonton to Wainwright this Spring.



And people thought the BFT was dead...  >


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Dec 2013)

Ludoc said:
			
		

> http://www.mississauga.com/news-story/4276172-army-parks-trucks-in-bid-for-savings/
> I, for one, look forward to marching from Edmonton to Wainwright this Spring.





			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> And people thought the BFT was dead...  >



 :goodpost:

 ;D


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## Lightguns (22 Dec 2013)

Horses, I got some C Arrow marked harness that I found in my shed. I would give the Army a good deal on it.


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## marinemech (22 Dec 2013)

Why don't we just take the non-road worthy trucks and part all the goodies out, rebuild the engines, transmissions, drive axles. And use the parts when one of the good Trucks has a issue. Only order trucks to replace fleet a little bit at a time, move all the newer fleet to the larger centers, where they get more use, and take the older but still serviceable fleet to smaller posts, until all of the fleet is slowly replaced over a 10+ year time frame.


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## George Wallace (22 Dec 2013)

marinemech said:
			
		

> Why don't we just take the non-road worthy trucks and part all the goodies out, rebuild the engines, transmissions, drive axles. And use the parts when one of the good Trucks has a issue. Only order trucks to replace fleet a little bit at a time, move all the newer fleet to the larger centers, where they get more use, and take the older but still serviceable fleet to smaller posts, until all of the fleet is slowly replaced over a 10+ year time frame.



Late to the dance.


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Dec 2013)

marinemech said:
			
		

> Why don't we just take the non-road worthy trucks and part all the goodies out, rebuild the engines, transmissions, drive axles. And use the parts when one of the good Trucks has a issue. Only order trucks to replace fleet a little bit at a time, move all the newer fleet to the larger centers, where they get more use, and take the older but still serviceable fleet to smaller posts, until all of the fleet is slowly replaced over a 10+ year time frame.





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Late to the dance.


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## opp550 (22 Dec 2013)

[quote author=Ludoc]
I, for one, look forward to marching from Edmonton to Wainwright this Spring.
[/quote]
Or even better, Shilo to Wainwright, with an m777 of course :crybaby:


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Dec 2013)

marinemech said:
			
		

> Why don't we just take the non-road worthy trucks and part all the goodies out, rebuild the engines, transmissions, drive axles. And use the parts when one of the good Trucks has a issue. Only order trucks to replace fleet a little bit at a time, move all the newer fleet to the larger centers, where they get more use, and take the older but still serviceable fleet to smaller posts, until all of the fleet is slowly replaced over a 10+ year time frame.



We did that in the CCG, sent all the older vehicles to the lightstations and remote lifeboat stations like bull Harbour, there they carried on, being used to carry stuff from the docks to the houses, they were fixed on site by the crews. 

 Feel old, I remember the MLVW's coming in brand spanking new. I have to wonder which parts are hard to come by, other than electrical, body or frame, most were commercial parts anyways.


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## MilEME09 (24 Dec 2013)

Colin P said:
			
		

> We did that in the CCG, sent all the older vehicles to the lightstations and remote lifeboat stations like bull Harbour, there they carried on, being used to carry stuff from the docks to the houses, they were fixed on site by the crews.
> 
> Feel old, I remember the MLVW's coming in brand spanking new. I have to wonder which parts are hard to come by, other than electrical, body or frame, most were commercial parts anyways.



I remember during the floods in Calgary, we pulled our URK ML into the shop to use it to train some of the Junior Vtechs. We opened up the back and found a treasure trove of parts, because of it we got that ML running again.


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## Fdtrucker (25 Dec 2013)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> I remember during the floods in Calgary, we pulled our URK ML into the shop to use it to train some of the Junior Vtechs. We opened up the back and found a treasure trove of parts, because of it we got that ML running again.




DRMIS working at max efficiency


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## quadrapiper (25 Dec 2013)

opp550 said:
			
		

> Or even better, Shilo to Wainwright, with an m777 of course :crybaby:


"Take up pole and drag ropes... Gun will advance..."


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## my72jeep (25 Dec 2013)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Feel old, I remember the MLVW's coming in brand spanking .


I hear you MLVW's came in the year I joined, the Iltis 2 years later.


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## cupper (25 Dec 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> I hear you MLVW's came in the year I joined, the Iltis 2 years later.



I remember transitioning from the old Deuce and a Half to the ML in the early 80's. Was on the last unit drivers course that had both the deuce and the ML, and then doing the ML maintenance conversion course.


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## Danjanou (7 Jan 2014)

quadrapiper said:
			
		

> "Take up pole and drag ropes... Gun will advance..."



Yup because God knows the local SPCA would be all over us if we tried to resurrect this idea  8)


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Jan 2014)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Yup because God knows the local SPCA would be all over us if we tried to resurrect this idea  8)



So long as it was swung over the side so it wouldn't singe the ears, what's the problem? :dunno:
Oh, and No.1 might need a mule stule (patent pending) to sight the thing  ;D

 :rofl:


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Jan 2014)

It comes with a supply of Mule Stool already, careful where you step!

Looks like a 57mm RR, note the 1919 style mount.


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Jan 2014)

Colin P said:
			
		

> It comes with a supply of Mule Stool already, careful where you step!
> 
> Looks like a 57mm RR, note the 1919 style mount.



That's why the different spelling.


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## Danjanou (7 Jan 2014)

I'm kind of hoping they dismounted the RR and fired from a tripod. Otherwise I can see it fire one rd spend 3 hours chasing after the mule, calm mule down lead back to firing point, fire second round......... ;D


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## OldSolduer (7 Jan 2014)

We'd love to join you marching from Shilo to Wainwright but we can only march on Saturdays and Sundays.....


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