# Aircrew Medical-Anthropometry Measurements



## rnkelly (12 Feb 2006)

I was wondering if anyone knows how to find the Anthropometric guidelines for the different aircraft. Specifcally for the Jet Ranger and British Hawk for sitting height, thigh length, leg length etc. 
Unfortunately the flight surgeon's guidelines website doesn't have this specific of information.


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## rnkelly (12 Feb 2006)

I've found some info on this subject if anyone is curious, it is on the Defence Research and Development Canada website and then search in the publications section.  There is a wealth of info on a wide range of topics. Very interesting stuff eventhough they are formal scientific papers.


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## 2010newbie (8 Dec 2011)

When I had the anthropometry measurements performed during the recruiting process I was told that I fit in 2 of the 3 trainers. Does this preclude me from the one stream I didn't fit into indefinitely? If I wanted to find out what the measurements were, where would I find them? Would they be in my MPRR or Personnel File?


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## estoguy (12 Dec 2011)

Found this interesting... is there a table or something somewhere that has the info.  The search of the website brought up a lot of unrelated stuff, but still interesting none the less.

If anyone finds links, please post.


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## 2010newbie (12 Dec 2011)

I am still looking into this, but I was surprised to find some interesting info on TV. I was watching "Ed's Up" (http://www.edsup.tv/S2episodes13.html) on the weekend because the episode involved Ed Robertson going to CFB Bagotville to fly in an F-18. It showed him at DRDC Toronto going through the Anthropometry measurements and it also showed his results on the screen for an instant. It listed all the CF Fleet and highlighted them in Red or Green depending on the results. Interestingly enough, he was green for the Hornet, but Red for the Hawk. Like I was asking before, I wonder if he was a regular recruit would the Red on the Hawk preclude him from the Fast Jet Stream. I am going to request some time to look at my personnel file this week and see if I can get any additional info.


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## aesop081 (12 Dec 2011)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> I wonder if he was a regular recruit would the Red on the Hawk preclude him from the Fast Jet Stream.



To go Hornet, you must first get through the Hawk. If you don't fit in the Hawk..............


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## Melbatoast (12 Dec 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> To go Hornet, you must first get through the Hawk. If you don't fit in the Hawk..............



I don't think it works like that.  We need a flight surgeon or someone who knows for sure in here, but I think the DRDC measurements are a "hard stop," where you have to fit two of the three aircraft or you don't proceed.  After that, it's probably more of a sliding scale because neither the anthro people nor the flight doc told me "no fighters for you," even though I also went red on the Hawk.  Probably a waiver situation.  In fact, the flight doc specifically said "nothing to worry about."  I suspect there's more to the data than the color of the box.

If you're much over 6 feet tall you will probably go red on it, depending on proportions.  That said, a dude I did ASC with was very near 6'5" and green.  I'm 6'3".  Go figure.


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## SupersonicMax (12 Dec 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> To go Hornet, you must first get through the Hawk. If you don't fit in the Hawk..............



Some people go through the T-38 at ENJEP (Sheppard AFB)


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## aesop081 (12 Dec 2011)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Some people go through the T-38 at ENJEP (Sheppard AFB)



Thanks max, i did not know we sent some of our folks there.


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## brian8225 (9 Jan 2012)

Did anyone find the actual numbers?  I'm 6'4", long legs compared to torso, so if I was automatically excluded I'd pick another trade on my app.

Thanks.


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## SupersonicMax (9 Jan 2012)

There is no actual numbers.  You have to go and get measured.  It has a lot to do with proportions.


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## brian8225 (10 Jan 2012)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> There is no actual numbers.  You have to go and get measured.  It has a lot to do with proportions.



Can you do that at a CFRC or is this only done once you're going through the actual selection process?


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## 2010newbie (10 Jan 2012)

It is done at DRDC in Toronto during the Aircrew Selection Process.


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## SkyHeff (10 Jan 2012)

I was red for the Hawk as well, but more than one CF pilot has told me that once I get to Moose Jaw and if I want/get chosen to go fighter, it'll be "looked into". That's just word of mouth though, so take it for what it is.


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## brian8225 (10 Jan 2012)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> It is done at DRDC in Toronto during the Aircrew Selection Process.



This seems counter-intuitive if you can weed people out before even doing an interview.

Assuming you were a superstar candidate but fail all of the measurement tests and don't fit in anything, are you just released or is there another path that you get sent down?


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## aesop081 (10 Jan 2012)

brian8225 said:
			
		

> are you just released



You are not even enrolled at that point so there is no need to release a person.


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## SkyHeff (10 Jan 2012)

brian8225 said:
			
		

> Assuming you were a superstar candidate but fail all of the measurement tests and don't fit in anything, are you just released or is there another path that you get sent down?



I have a friend in school who had this exact problem. He was enrolled as an "Air Ops" officer (for the brief period they did that), and he spent the first 2 years trying to get re-measured or find some alternative to get into pilot. He is now designated as an Aerospace Control Officer.


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## rnkelly (10 Jan 2012)

These are the numbers from before the new automatic system was adopted; 





I'd guess that they're somewhat close to this still.  One thing to remember is that some of the aircraft that are used for these limits may not even be in use when a candidate gets to flight-training, especially if they're ROTP.  

I was red for Jets and Helos, but was also told that for the helo it was not a safety issue, just a comfort issue.  So technically I was red for 2/3 streams but was given a shot anyway.

Here's a link to the new system for those curious;
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/v2/nr-sp/index-eng.asp?id=1514
This system was suppose to be less stringent due to the higher accuracy of the measurements so hopefully it has worked that way.

I started this thread years ago as a nervous 6'4" Pilot hopeful, happy to report it didn't affect me and I'm out of the training system...finally.


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## 2010newbie (10 Jan 2012)

brian8225 said:
			
		

> This seems counter-intuitive if you can weed people out before even doing an interview.



Realize that they don't pull out a tape measure like you're getting measured for a suit. You stand/sit in three different positions in your underwear with a nylon sock on your head while a camera attached to a computer takes photos and analyzes the measurements. The interview, CFAT, application, and recruiting medical weed people out before the costly Aircrew Selection Process. It is much cheaper for a candidate to go to their local CFRC for an interview than flying (plus hotel/meals/taxis) a potential candidate to Trenton and Toronto from Victoria or whereever the candidate might live in the country for Aircrew selection.


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## dimsum (10 Jan 2012)

rnkelly said:
			
		

> These are the numbers from before the new automatic system was adopted;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll add that ACSOs don't use the "Navigator" table anymore.  Actually, I don't believe people who only apply as ACSO even have to do the anthro measurements.


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## 2010newbie (22 Jan 2012)

So I went to med records and reviewed my anthro results and I was shocked to see that I was green on all three streams training aircraft (Hawk, King Air, and Bell 206), since the Medical Examiner said I fit into only 2 of 3 when I performed the test. The only fail I had was on the Primary Trainer. I was also borderline on the Griffon and Sea King. At first I assummed the Primary Trainer was the Grob 120A, but it stated I failed because I'm overweight for the ejection seat so now I don't know what aircraft it refers too.


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