# XM109 25mm sniper rifle.



## wannabe SF member (3 Dec 2006)

I never thought they would do it but theres a 25 mm sniper rifle.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM109,,00.html


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## schart28 (3 Dec 2006)

amazing, its accurate up to 2.5 km.


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## wannabe SF member (3 Dec 2006)

> Fires 25mm low velocity HEDP ammunition
> Accurate out to 2,500 meters
> 46 inches long, weighs 33 pounds.
> Components interchangeable with M-107 .50 caliber rifle
> Incorporates BORS ballistic computer



What do they mean by low velocity round ???


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## GO!!! (3 Dec 2006)

The incongruous said:
			
		

> What do they mean by low velocity round ???



It means that the projectile travels slowly.

Think of a high velocity round (like .338) being like a laser beam. The projectile leaves the muzzle and travels a great distance in almost perfectly straight and level flight before gravity, windage, barometric pressure, temperature etc. has an appreciable effect on it. 

A low velocity round is (Barret .50, XM-109) bears more similarity to a basketball being shot for a three pointer. The projectile is usually much bigger, and only so much propellant can be used before it is no longer man-packable. It is not as accurate because of this "lobbing" effect, and due to the slower speed, is affected by the abovementioned variables much more. 

Neither of these is inherently "better" they just have different uses. A .338 rifle is much lighter and has a smaller signature than a .50 cal rifle, and can be used over extreme distances  with little risk of collateral damage. A .50 cal rifle can kill a car - but everyone knows where you are the second you fire it, and it takes a big, beefy shooter to fire any more than a few rounds.


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## KevinB (3 Dec 2006)

In this instance it is to seperate the 25mm rounds apart as there is already a 25mm round (for the LAV, and Bradley) this version is a smaller and lower velocity version.

Same deal with the 40mm.  The M230 40mm was the standard so when the Mk19 round was introducded it became the 40mm Hi Velocity...


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## Eids of March (3 Dec 2006)

So, the rifle 25 mm is different from the LAV 25 mm?

Or will infantrymen have to de-link the LAV's ammo for the Coy Anti-Tank sniper in the near future?


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## MG34 (4 Dec 2006)

The ammo is not the same as used in the LAV,it is a shorter round,firing at a low velocity.


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## wannabe SF member (4 Dec 2006)

It would be a nice anti squad weapon with an explosive round >


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## GO!!! (4 Dec 2006)

The incongruous said:
			
		

> It would be a nice anti squad weapon with an explosive round >



Some of the problems being;

How many 25mm rounds can you carry (in addition to the 35lb weapon)

How long do you have to live when your personal weapon has a three foot muzzle flash and kicks up a cloud of dust on your position whenever you fire?

Finally, many ideas look really, really good when they are presented only by the company that sells them, however, when they see the light of day in field testing and use, a different story emerges (XM-8, OICW, Eryx to name a few), in which they are often found to be heavy, expensive and being made for a "need" that just does'nt exist.


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## KevinB (5 Dec 2006)

The Incongruous said:
			
		

> It would be a nice anti squad weapon with an explosive round >



We do -- M203.

read what GO!!! said -- then read it again.  Sit back and contemplate that the people giving you the info on a lot of stuff here have been around the block.



The only purpose for this rifle was a drop in for the M107 Barrett - provising a greater anti-material capability than the Mk211 Raufoss round for the .50 (greater payload)


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## wannabe SF member (5 Dec 2006)

i stand corrected.


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## xmarcx (5 Dec 2006)

If the U.S. ends up fielding the XM307 and the ammo is compatible (both use the 25mm grenade) then at least rounds would be commonly available to mechanized infantry, but for the many reasons stated previously in this thread, it seems like a big heavy piece of nothing too useful. However, Picatinny Arsenal is developing 25mm thermobarics - in theory those could offer a good balance of firepower and precision from a rifle platform. As in, you could knock a sniper or machine gun out of a building or fortified position without having to waste an M72 or call in a fire mission and wipe out the entire building. 

I haven't been there, to those who do know, is that a reasonable prospect or would this just be a heavy piece of kit that would be left in the back of the LAV regardless?


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## GO!!! (8 Dec 2006)

xmarcx said:
			
		

> I haven't been there, to those who do know, is that a reasonable prospect or would this just be a heavy piece of kit that would be left in the back of the LAV regardless?



I agree.

I see a weapon and rounds being designed for needs that just don't exist. Why do you need an exploding round when you have an Automatic grenade launcher/M203/LAV/Leopard/M72? 

Why would this be any more useful than the Barret/McMillan .50, especially considering that the .338 is preferable for AP use? For equipment use, the fifties are more than sufficient.

I just don't see where this fits into the picture - what *can't* we kill right now that this enables us to?


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## Ex-Dragoon (8 Dec 2006)

The Incongruous said:
			
		

> i stand corrected.



Thats why we keep telling you to stay in your own lane.


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## westie048 (11 Jan 2007)

This weapon is just over kill. Cool on paper but not practical.





 :skull:


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## ArmyRick (11 Jan 2007)

Agree. Its got good "star wars" factor, but I don't see it as being practical...


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## Cote (12 Jan 2007)

Cool rifle,

It says its accurate to 2,500m and the muzzle velocity is 2600 feet per second which means it will take 3 seconds from shot till impact at 2,500m. Now correct me if I'm wrong but would the advantage of having a 25mm sniper rifle be the increased range rather than the actual damage it would create? And if its hang time is 3 seconds wouldn't it make hitting a human target very very hard with all the factors affecting the round as it travels now you have the possibility of the target moving, sneezing, or doing anything in 3 seconds which will prevent his death.

Upon further reading of the article it seems as though the rifle is mainly intended for anti vehical purposes (makes sense), but is it really needed?

Also that article is from 2004 so...


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## ettibebs (15 Jan 2007)

I may be wrong but i don't think the purpose of this rifle was ever to shoot down humans.  From what I read it's mainly an anti-equipement rifle not an anti-personnal.  And if it's to use against human it's far overkill.


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## ArmyRick (21 Jan 2007)

Buds, anti-material weapon? We got the MacMillan, that will do. Remember, this aint the same 25mm as the LAVIII chain gun.


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## ProPatria031 (25 Jul 2007)

If you can only fire 25 .50 cal a day with out going blind how many rounds of 25mm would you be able to fire. I would guess that 10-20max a day depending on size of operator firing it witch would be very unpractical.


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## Greymatters (25 Jul 2007)

Interesting... any description on the recoil for this puppy?


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