# Correct me if I am wrong (photo)



## Bzzliteyr (4 May 2004)

Correct me if I am wrong, but is that the butt from an MP5 that I see the Colonel of the NCE holding?  I mean aside from the cigarette.. Is that a regular issue item? Or was it perhaps given due to his status?  I am just wondering if anyone has any info on this picture??


  http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/photoarchive/HiRes/%212004/042804/IS2004-2039a%20copy.jpg  

Bzz


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## scm77 (4 May 2004)

I noticed that before too.  Sure looks like an MP5 of some sort.


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## Ex-Dragoon (4 May 2004)

It is an MP5...maybe they are starting to get a little more widely distributed in the CF.


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

Most likely a MP5A1/A3 with a mag clamp(doubler). The same used on CF NCBP (Non-compliant Boarding Parties) like those on the HMCS Halifax. 

It does seem like they‘re more widely used now than ever before.


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## Arctic Acorn (4 May 2004)

I‘m curious why a LCol rates an MP5. Does anybody here know how common they are and who gets them (other then the KFC-2 types)

I‘m -more- curious what the deal is with that knife rig on his right thigh...


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## condor888000 (4 May 2004)

How do you know he‘s an LCol? I didn‘t see any insignia.


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## leopard11 (4 May 2004)

its a picture from combat camera website, with each picture comes a description, in the description it said his rank and position

"Colonel Alain Tremblay (L), Commanding Officer of the National Command Element (NCE), looks out over Kabul from TV Hill, an observation post overlooking the Afghan capital. "


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## Ex-Dragoon (4 May 2004)

Ummmm CI the MP5 is the standard weapon for any Naval Boarding Teams (not just the HMCS Halifax)... we take them with us all the time. We no longer use a mag clamp because that would leave one magazine completely exposed to the elements. The MP5A1 has not been used in years, our version is the MP5N


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## armyguy916 (4 May 2004)

It‘s probably more than likely a picture of someone that is in JTF.  They are the only ones that use MP5‘s. Other than the naval boarding parties, but as you can see, he isn‘t on a boat.  I was demo for a course a while ago where we had some JTF as candidates, and they used MP5‘s instead of the C7, because they have choices as to what they want to use for weapons.  As for that smoke, I didn‘t know the forces took pics of troops smoking and put them for public display, seems kinda strange to me


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## AlphaCharlie (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by armyguy916:
> [qb] Other than the naval boarding parties, but as you can see, he isn‘t on a boat.   [/qb]


hehe... I dont know why, but that made me chuckle...


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

The MP5N has an integral RAS system.
The JTF-2 and Naval weapon can‘t be the N because the foregrip is the tac light version. The HK MP5N has a picatinny rail system.

I didn‘t mean that it was only on the HMCS Halifax, just that the Halifax NCBP used the name SMG.
I believe, that it is the MP5A3 under a CF designation. On the most currect CF arms posters I believe it doesn‘t state what model it was, just simply HK MP5.

If it is indeed the MP5A3 then it would have a SEF trigger grouping, and A3 pistol grip, and a 3-lug flashhider.

I aware of the exposed mag but don‘t some NCBP and some JTF-2 operators use an MP5 series Redi-Mag system?


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## chalk1 (4 May 2004)

Yeah...
My question is, since when does the CF issues smokes? And what kind? Is it possible to smoke colts? Or perhaps colts mild?


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## Armymedic (4 May 2004)

Why is it so hard to understand that the people in Afghan may be getting kit and wpns special because they are on a high priority sexy mission? This is just like the discussion on the clothing thread the other day...the special C9. The Col may have gotten himself a MP5 for his personal protection....after all RHIP.

Oh yeah, and don‘t forget its 3 R22R over there and they do get everything they ask for.


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## chrisf (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by CI Phlipster:
> [qb] The JTF-2 and Naval weapon can‘t be the N because the foregrip is the tac light version. The HK MP5N has a picatinny rail system.
> [/qb]


Aren‘t you a cadet? Isn‘t Ex-dragoon in the navy?


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Just a Sig Op:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but I am certain of that weapon‘s designation. 

I am not a cadet. And I sure I receive you point.
I respect his knowledge as Ex-dragoon is more attune to naval aspect of the CF.


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Armymedic:
> [qb] Why is it so hard to understand that the people in Afghan may be getting kit and wpns special because they are on a high priority sexy mission? This is just like the discussion on the clothing thread the other day...the special C9. The Col may have gotten himself a MP5 for his personal protection....after all RHIP.
> 
> Oh yeah, and don‘t forget its 3 R22R over there and they do get everything they ask for. [/qb]


It‘s just been, up till now, special weapons have been reserved to operational situations under naval NCBP and JTF-2. I think its a step in a good direction, if a step at all, to allow a more flexible weapons systems to soldiers who are on the front lines.

Agreed, the vandoos is it, get what they want... heck they‘ve got a TV show too.


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## sgt_mandal (4 May 2004)

You guy‘s have to agree on one thing....he has nice kit altogether.


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## scm77 (4 May 2004)

I like his knife holster.

That reminded me of something.  Is their an actual holster used for pistols?  Anytime I‘ve seen someone in a picture it‘s just stuck in one of the C7 magazine pockets.

Also where would you carry any extra pistol mags?


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## Jarnhamar (4 May 2004)

Only the JTF have knife holsters 
i think the JTF are allowed to smoke and walk around anywhere they want too.


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## MG34 (4 May 2004)

Well cadet or not you have no clue about CF weapons.The MP5N designation applies to MP5 with the 3 lug and threaded barrel,ambi. safety and picto gram lower (safe,semi,full).It was developed for the US Navy SEALS and adopted worldwide.What ever is on the handguard has no bearing on the "N" designation.
 There is no such thing as an integral RAS for the MP5,RAS isa trade marked term from Kinight‘s Armament Corp,which is a removable handguard with a series of M1913 Picatinney rails on it for the attachment of various devices.

Here is a pic of the current issue MP5N in canadian service and what buddy in the pic above is holding

 http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-mp5.htm


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

Then I stand corrected. I was mistaken.

Thanks for the info MG34.


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by MG34:
> [qb]you have no clue about CF weapons.[/qb]


Well obviously I do have a clue, but thank you for correcting me.


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## MedCorps (5 May 2004)

SCM77...

Yes there is a proper holster for the BH Pistol.  Infact there are at least three in service (that I know of).  

One has a I-82 pattern pull tab on it, and has a space for a CLP bottle and extra mag on the outside of it.  This is the one I like the best.  It is also the oldest, and most people do not like it much because they like shinny things better.  I wear mine on an old I-62 pistol belt, and it seems to work just fine.  I never put mine on the old I-82 webbing as I take my webbing off quite often to putter about (like in a CP, or treating patients) and did not fancy leaving my pistol with the webbing.  Wone loose the I-62 pistol belt, under the I-82 webbing allows the holster to hand in the correct position.  I still left that side (as space where the pistol holster should go) of my webbing empty to allow me to access it quickly, if God forbbid I woule need to.  The RQMS wanted them back sometime ago to issue the UM84 style holster and I had to fight to keep it.

Another is an American one.  It is a Bianchi UM84 Pistol Holster.  It comes with a "hip extender" and a place to hold 2 mags.  It also has this leg strap that goes around your thigh.  Last deployment I was issued one of these, and I was glad that I brought my old I-82 model with me.  If found this leg strap rubs and it never seems to hang quite right when I am moving in and out of vehicles all the time.  

 http://www.militarycraft.com/index.php/product/183/467/?ads=no 

The third type is an underarm holster.  It has room for 2 mags on the opposite underarm position.  Never tried it, but I do not fancy carrying my pistol under my arm.  I also do not suspect that it would be usable with the Tactical Vest.

Hope that helps. 

Cheers, 

MC


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## mattoigta (5 May 2004)

> Originally posted by CI Phlipster:
> [qb] Then I stand corrected. I was mistaken.
> 
> Thanks for the info MG34. [/qb]


Now don‘t you wish you hadn‘t said you were ‘certain‘


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## CI Dumaran (5 May 2004)

Indeed. :S


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## scm77 (5 May 2004)

Thanks MedCorps.


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## Armour (26 Aug 2004)

Here is the atached picture description I found for the photo IS2004-2039A
when doing a search for it at http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/find_e.asp


English/Anglais
IS2004-2039a
27 April, 2004
Kabul, Afghanistan

Colonel Alain Tremblay (L), Commanding Officer of the National Command Element (NCE), looks out over Kabul from TV Hill, an observation post overlooking the Afghan capital. 

Canadian troops are in Afghanistan as part of Operation ATHENA, Canada's contribution to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Kabul.

Operation ATHENA began in August 2003 and is currently scheduled to end in August 2005. At this time, ISAF comprises 6,500 troops from 35 nations, commanded by Canadian Lieutenant-General Rick Hillier.

Photo: Sgt Frank Hudec, Canadian Forces Combat Camera

French/Français
IS2004-2039a
Le 27 avril 2004
Kaboul (Afghanistan)


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## Coyote43D (27 Aug 2004)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> SCM77...
> 
> Yes there is a proper holster for the BH Pistol.   Infact there are at least three in service (that I know of).
> 
> ...



MedCorps,

 The UM84 also came with a chest rig which was a pain in the butt when worn over the LBV.


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## MG34 (27 Aug 2004)

And the thing they all have in common is they all are inadequate for the job...JUNK!!! The flap kolster while it does do a good job of securing the pistol it also is very slow to draw from.The bianchi UM-84 was designed for the Beretta 92,not the Browning,it does not adequately secure the pistol,the drop leg attachment is just plain weak,and the single thigh strap is too thin and come loose .I use none of the above but purchased my own made by Eagle.It has a thumbbreak system with a lock,a wide elastic thigh strap that doesn't come loose at all,it is a far superior rig than the issued junk.
 Under arm holster are not a good idea either for several reasons ,not the least of which is in a vehicle they are awkward to draw from,there are serious safety concerns as well as when you draw you sweep your own body with the muzzle,and other troops around you as well.


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## MedCorps (27 Aug 2004)

MG 34, 

Do you have a pict or a link you could post with your Eagle holster?  

Interested to see what else is out there. 

Cheers, 

MC


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## MG34 (27 Aug 2004)

Like this one but in green







Good tactical holsters are fairly common,Blackhawk,Eagle,Assault Systems,Safariland,Fobus,Bladetech,and a whole wack of others make them .Just do a search on the net,look for what you need.


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## MedCorps (28 Aug 2004)

Thanks for the help MG34. 

Off to surf the web   

Cheer, 

MC


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## Soleman (23 Sep 2004)

Brangwyn Jones said:
			
		

> Correct me if I am wrong, but is that the butt from an MP5 that I see the Colonel of the NCE holding?   I mean aside from the cigarette.. Is that a regular issue item? Or was it perhaps given due to his status?   I am just wondering if anyone has any info on this picture??
> Bzz



In response to your question, yes it is an MP5 and no it is not just for higher ups although he did carry one quite a bit. There are 5 held by NCE for SSE.

Cheers 
Soleman.


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## Bzzliteyr (25 Sep 2004)

Elaborate please.. why would they have 5? and what would make him entitled to one?? "look cool factor" for the pictures?


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## Soleman (25 Sep 2004)

Mod Edit:

Post deleted pending review if OPSEC was violated. Soleman, in the event it was not an OPSEC violation you may repost.

Ex Dragoon


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## NavyGrunt (26 Sep 2004)

armyguy916 said:
			
		

> It's probably more than likely a picture of someone that is in JTF.   They are the only ones that use MP5's. Other than the naval boarding parties, but as you can see, he isn't on a boat.   I was demo for a course a while ago where we had some JTF as candidates, and they used MP5's instead of the C7, because they have choices as to what they want to use for weapons.   As for that smoke, I didn't know the forces took pics of troops smoking and put them for public display, seems kinda strange to me



Its his best John Wayne pose. However your wrong about only boarding parties and JTF-s using the MP5. They are used in all types of taskings in the Navy. If you mean outside the Navy and JTF  they arent used then sure you might be right. But saying BP only is incorrect....even if only a little.


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## MG34 (27 Sep 2004)

The MP5 is just like any other weapon in the Cf if required it can be requested by any person or unit that has a need for it. Wether or not they get it is up to the bean counters.


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