# Long Range Support Weapons?



## BadgerTrapper (12 Jun 2011)

Hello, as you can already probably tell. I'm new here, I'm looking into Armored Recce and a thought came to mind. Are the Recce LAV's outfitted with any kind of LRSW? Whether it's a C14 or an (oh so awesome) McMillan Tac-50? (I'm trying to provoke a discussion from this, so please don't just say "use the search bar")


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## TangoTwoBravo (12 Jun 2011)

Are you asking if Armoured Reconnaissance employ sniper weapons? Snipers can be employed in conjunction with armoured recce, but the armoured recce soldiers are not equipped with sniper weapons. If a Coyote patrol needs to engage something it will use the 25mm or 7.62mm coaxial machinegun on each Coyote.

From your statement that you don't want to use the search bar because you want to provoke discussion, can I assume that you think that Armoured Recce crewmen should have sniper weapons?


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## BadgerTrapper (12 Jun 2011)

Indeed, in theory. Sniper Weapons would be ideal for Armored Recce, and don't think I'm one of these guys that'll sit there and watch combat footage on Youtube, but I saw a video where a Coyote was stationary and the crew was in the rear area of the LAV while they were getting mortared and having RPG's fired at them. A Sniper Rifle probably would have taken care of the RPG's. I thought that each Armored Recce unit would have a Sniper Rifle of some sort, just for all-around usage.


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## OldSolduer (12 Jun 2011)

Observing the situation here......


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## TangoTwoBravo (12 Jun 2011)

If you can see the RPG gunners then the 25mm and coax will be your usual weapons of choice. Artillery and air strikes are other options. Armoured recce guys have enough to do with plenty of kit as it is without adding sniper weapons to the mix. I would rather spend more time on all-arms call for fire or getting guys qualified as FACs then qualifying them as snipers. If a task requires snipers then snipers can be assigned.


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Jun 2011)

As T2T said, if you can see them, you have crew served weapons to take care of them.

Let's start your education about Armoured Reconnaissance. That is what the Reserve Armoured Regiments do. They do it on foot and in GWagons. Their role is 'To collect accurate tactical information about the enemy and the ground in all phases of war and to pass this information quickly to formation HQ.' They do this by sneak and peek (seeing without being seen and hearing without being heard). Your personal and crew served weapons are used for defence, not offence. The only long range weapon you may get to employ is arty, if it is on call to your Troop. Your job is to tell higher where the enemy is, what he is, what he is doing, and what you're doing. Higher will decide how to interact with the subjects of your info. Reg Force Armoured, which employ the Coyote in the surveillance role and what you'll do in the Reserve recce role, is like apples and bowling balls.


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## TangoTwoBravo (12 Jun 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Reg Force Armoured, which employ the Coyote in the surveillance role and what you'll do in the Reserve recce role, is like apples and bowling balls.



Regular Force units with Coyote are employed in the reconnaissance role. We conduct surveillance tasks like any recce unit, but rest assured that we conduct all the recce tasks. Coyote Troops "sneak and peak" when conducting route, area, point and zone recce tasks. In my mixed squadron it is the Troop equipped with Coyote that usually draws the zone recce task in front of the battle group.


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## Sig_Des (12 Jun 2011)

While I don't see the feasibility of supporting sniper dets withing the Recce Sqn, with the return of the assault tp concept, does anyone see the possibility of Designated Marksmen within it's conops if a course and weapons platform is ever approved?


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## OldSolduer (12 Jun 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> While I don't see the feasibility of supporting sniper dets withing the Recce Sqn, with the return of the assault tp concept, does anyone see the possibility of Designated Marksmen within it's conops if a course and weapons platform is ever approved?


To be very blunt here, I think we have an answer already:

Use the 25mm to your advantage. Move to a position where you can whack the bad guys. Or call in air strikes, or arty.
Why dismount a sniper team? They are a force multiplier. In other words, they don't run about willy nilly shooting RPG teams because an armored guy got shot at with an RPG.
Snipers are highly skilled and it takes years to train them. That's not the kind of investment you make to take out RPG teams. You can do that quite well with a 25mm Bushmaster.


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## Fishbone Jones (13 Jun 2011)

Tango2Bravo said:
			
		

> Regular Force units with Coyote are employed in the reconnaissance role. We conduct surveillance tasks like any recce unit, but rest assured that we conduct all the recce tasks. Coyote Troops "sneak and peak" when conducting route, area, point and zone recce tasks. In my mixed squadron it is the Troop equipped with Coyote that usually draws the zone recce task in front of the battle group.



Yes, we've all heard, and seen, those deep throated , smoke spewing diesels 'sneaking and peeking', from quite a distance   ;D


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## Sig_Des (13 Jun 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> To be very blunt here, I think we have an answer already:
> 
> Use the 25mm to your advantage. Move to a position where you can whack the bad guys. Or call in air strikes, or arty.
> Why dismount a sniper team? They are a force multiplier. In other words, they don't run about willy nilly shooting RPG teams because an armored guy got shot at with an RPG.
> Snipers are highly skilled and it takes years to train them. That's not the kind of investment you make to take out RPG teams. You can do that quite well with a 25mm Bushmaster.



With all due respect Mr Seggie, I'm well aware of the Recce's usage of 25mm, air and arty when under fire.  I'm NOT advocating snipers or sniper weaponry in the Recce Sqn.

What I was referring to, is that having seen the potential return of an Assault tp within the Recce Sqn, a ground element to the sqn as it were, if there would be the potential for some members as selected as DM if such a capability develops out of CTC.


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## brihard (13 Jun 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> With all due respect Mr Seggie, I'm well aware of the Recce's usage of 25mm, air and arty when under fire.  I'm NOT advocating snipers or sniper weaponry in the Recce Sqn.
> 
> What I was referring to, is that having seen the potential return of an Assault tp within the Recce Sqn, a ground element to the sqn as it were, if there would be the potential for some members as selected as DM if such a capability develops out of CTC.



I'm behind on the 'assault troop' discourse. Are you talking about essentially a 'close with and destroy' troop within the recce squadron?


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## TangoTwoBravo (13 Jun 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Yes, we've all heard, and seen, those deep throated , smoke spewing diesels 'sneaking and peeking', from quite a distance   ;D


 
You should come out on exercise with us. I have both Coyotes and LUVW in my sqn. Both sneak and peek. Both get seen from time to time. You`d be surprised what Coyotes can do. I suppose this is all besides the point.


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## George Wallace (13 Jun 2011)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I'm behind on the 'assault troop' discourse. Are you talking about essentially a 'close with and destroy' troop within the recce squadron?



The Assault Troop acts similar to the Inf Pioneers in building Road Blocks, setting up ambushes, and clearing obstacles on a route during Route Recces.  Recce Sqn is not in the "close with and destroy" business unless it is a last resort.


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## ArmyRick (13 Jun 2011)

Its interesting when I saw the thread titled Long Range Support Weapon. 
I thought it would be about 50 HMG, TOW and 81mm (Yeah I am locked into an infantry perspective). 

However after reading the OP (not Observation Post BTW, it took me quite awhile to get that) 
commented about sniper weapons and recce vehicles working together, I realize he/she needs some education
about how the different arms work.

Snipers, UAV, Inf and Arm Recce have all been employed in combined ISTAR squadrons
on operations recently, have they not? 

Anybody with first hand expirience care to comment?


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## McG (13 Jun 2011)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> Anybody with first hand expirience care to comment?


One has.  See posts from T2B.


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## TangoTwoBravo (13 Jun 2011)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> Snipers, UAV, Inf and Arm Recce have all been employed in combined ISTAR squadrons
> on operations recently, have they not?
> 
> Anybody with first hand expirience care to comment?



I have a mixed Recce Sqn with two Armoured Recce Troops, an Infantry Recce Platoon and a Sniper Platoon. This has been in Canada, but against a variety of OPFORs. Broadly speaking I use the Recce Troops to find the enemy and the Recce Platoon to define the enemy. Having said that, the Armoured Recce Tps have conducted close recce to define enemy positions and they have "recce/mark/secured" control measures as well.

The employment of the snipers within the squadron will depend on the COs plan. Sometimes they will be doing their own thing, while at other times they will be synched into the sqn scheme of manoeuvre. Relating back to the topic, I would not use them to protect an OP, although I suppose anything is possible! They have been used, however, to engage a key enemy weapon system in support of BG or Cbt Tm manoeuvre.  It all depends how the CO wants them to be employed.


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