# Expedition Instructor. What do I need?



## matt1995

I'm going to expedition instructor this and I was wondering what I need to bring. A lot of civies? Hiking boots? Random stuff that would be helpful?

Thanks


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## medicineman

Kit list and joining instructions might be a good start...

MM


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## matt1995

Thanks guys. Cause that was suuuuuuper helpful. I went to CL Marksman last year so I didn't go to Basic Expedition and yes, I have checked the kit list but it isn't very specific on if we are going to be wearing civies the whole time.


And if you're going to be as helpful as my little buddies up there ^^^^^^^^ don't bother posting because you clearly know nothing on the subject so you decide instead to give me a stupid answer.


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## JMesh

Stacked said:
			
		

> If you're going as an instructor, you would think you knew how it works already.



Expedition Instructor is the name of the course, one that was introduced in the CPU. (S)he is not a staff cadet.

You should bring exactly what is in the joining instructions for the CSTC you're attending. That is the kit you will need. Anything else is more than needed and may make your bag weigh too much if you have to fly (e.g. Atlantic region course cadets are limited to 1 bag no more than 50 lbs). Also, it will help you verify you don't bring any forbidden items. If there's something not on the kit list that you need, you will be issued it.

Really there is no better answer than this. Just use the kit list and common sense. I've been going to CSTCs for the last 9 years (this will be my 10th) and those two together have never failed me.


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## matt1995

Thank you! Now that's an answer! You see guys, it's not so hard! And again do you know if we will be wearing civies during the expedition or combats? Because the kit list says :quick dry shirts, shorts and pants (as required), for expedition instructor.


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## medicineman

cadet1994 said:
			
		

> Thanks guys. Cause that was suuuuuuper helpful. I went to CL Marksman last year so I didn't go to Basic Expedition and yes, I have checked the kit list but it isn't very specific on if we are going to be wearing civies the whole time.
> 
> 
> And if you're going to be as helpful as my little buddies up there ^^^^^^^^ don't bother posting because you clearly know nothing on the subject so you decide instead to give me a stupid answer.



Personally, I'd suggest you stow the attitude quickly - if you're not prepared for the answer, I'd suggest rethink the question you're asking.  And BTW - I do work with a Cadet unit, have been a Cadet, and have supported many Cadet Camps over the years, so do a know something about what goes on...and if you'd been working for me and came across with that attitude, especially to an adult, you wouldn't have been there for very long.  If it doesn't say you're going to be wearing civvies, I'd assume you'd be wearing a uniform of some sort.

If you'd asked a question along the line of " Hey, anyone else going on this course know if XYZ is what's being worn, since it doesn't seem obvious on the kit list or joining instructions...", the answers you'd have seen would likely have been different.  Ask the question you did, well those are the answers pretty much anyone would have given you and no different if one of my troops at work had done the same.

MM


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## Nauticus

Stacked said:
			
		

> If you're going as an instructor, you would think you knew how it works already.


That wasn't very helpful at all.


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## matt1995

Sorry MM, but if you're going to answer in a way that makes it sound like i'm an idiot, you just might get a response like that. I asked a simple question and maybe I just wasn't expecting such an immature response from an «adult». If you're going to try to «help» cadets with a tone like that, they're better off without your help. I don't care how old you are, it was clear to me that you were not trying to help.


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## JMesh

cadet1994 said:
			
		

> Sorry MM, but if you're going to answer in a way that makes it sound like i'm an idiot, you just might get a response like that. I asked a simple question and maybe I just wasn't expecting such an immature response from an «adult». If you're going to try to «help» cadets with a tone like that, they're better off without your help. I don't care how old you are, it was clear to me that you were not trying to help.



Okay, I was helpful before, now I'm getting irritated. The advice he gave you was the same as what I gave you, I just went into a little more detail. If you wanted further clarification, you should have specifically sought that. You were being rude and disrespectful to someone who was trying to help you. For this forum, that's very unappreciated. I'm with MM. You need to check the attitude if you want help. Welcome to Milnet.ca.


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## matt1995

Sorry for being a little bit surprised when the first two replies I get are smart-ass remarks when I asked a simple question. I this how you like to spend your time when you are 42 years-old MM? You need to intimidate a smart-ass 15 year-old like me? I found it very disrespectful to be spoken to like I am stupid.


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## aesop081

cadet1994 said:
			
		

> I asked a simple question



....and you got a simple answer. The only appropriate answer too.


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## aesop081

cadet1994 said:
			
		

> Sorry for being a little bit surprised when the first two replies I get are smart-*** remarks



This is the second reply you got:



			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> Kit list and joining instructions might be a good start...
> 
> MM



Not only is it not a "smart ***" response but it is the correct response, as was shown to you in another reply.


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## matt1995

This is ridiculous guys. Give me a break. I'm 15. I want to hear from from fellow cadets or HELPFUL CIC officers that have some actual knowledge, not a bunch of 40 year-olds that really should have no interest in the topic anyway except maybe they feel they need to reply in a useless manner. I don't know, maybe you're just bored. But seriously isn't there something better you could be doing besides putting up with me?


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## aesop081

cadet1994 said:
			
		

> not a bunch of 40 year-olds



I'm 35 and you got your answer already. It was given to you by MM, who works with cadets and was confirmed by JMesh, who is a CIC officer.


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## JMesh

You remind me a lot of me when I first started on this forum. I had to smarten up and take the good advice before I got any respect around here. I did, and now I contribute wherever I know what I'm talking about enough to do so effectively, aiding anyone I can. The point is, you were given a helpful answer, and you were rude. All we're saying is to tone it down next time and be grateful for what help you get. If you have further questions, ask them. That's what I did with my questions about transferring to the Naval Reserve (not yet complete, I'm still currently CIC) and people helped me without any hesitation.

The second answer wasn't smart-a**. It was a genuine answer, and you acknowledged that in stating my answer was helpful, which was in essence the same answer.

And in regards to your last, I'm not 40, I'm 21.


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## matt1995

I asked : will we be wearing civies for most of the course? The replies I received were Check the Kit List! Very helpful when the kit list is a generic one for all courses and it does not tell me what I will be wearing during the course. I am not stupid. No one answered my question yet!


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## medicineman

You're not going to have alot of fun on your course - last kid I saw like you had soaking wet kit for a very cold 2 week trip courtesy of their course mates.  Assuming you're not RTU'd for being an attitude problem...be interesting explaining that to your CO.

Want to be a leader?  Stop asking to be spoon fed.  

Hope your teddy didn't get hurt when you tossed him in the corner.

MM


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## JMesh

If you needed lots of civilians, your joining instructions would tell you that. If they don't, then you don't need them. That was my post, so yes, I answered your question. You will probably wear OG-107s, since most (if not all) army CSTCs have an abundance of them. Asked, answered.

Admins, if I may be so bold, I recommend a lock before this gets out of hand.


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## c.jacob

Perhaps to put an end to the online scuttlebutt.  Get on the phone to your chain of command within your cadet corps. I'll bet you'll get all the little details you're looking for.


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## Scott

I knew I should have stayed out of the Cadet threads....

Stacked:


			
				Stacked said:
			
		

> If you're going as an instructor, you would think you knew how it works already.


This adds nothing. Your opinion might be valid but the question was asked for a reason and I think you could have either been more constructive or just kept your mouth shut and allowed someone else to answer. Please do not let it happen again. Thanks.



			
				Nauticus said:
			
		

> That wasn't very helpful at all.


Nauticus, while Stacked's response might have been better kept to himself, it did have a point to it as far as the thread goes. Yours does nothing but further derail the subject. I have asked you, more than once, to curtail this behaviour and you steadfastly ignore my requests. Perhaps a week on Verbal will help you remember for next time: if you have a problem with what someone posts then please use the report to moderator function.

Cadet1994,

You asked a question and, for the most part, got the answers you were seeking. If they were not posted in the manner which you would have liked to have seen them then that is no fault of the people who were trying to help you. I agree with the others: you need to check your attitude.

You have people with a lot of experience who tried to help you. With the way you reacted it'll be no surprise to me if no one else decides to chime in.

Good luck.

Scott
Staff


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## formercadet1029

Wow, this thread is a freaking riot.  > > >

Having been on both sides of the fence with this one, I can certainly understand this young chap's question, and, of course all of the answers too. 

Joining instructions have been around for decades, they are effective and work over & over, which is their purpose. 

If you need anything, you will be asked to bring it in all the paper you will receive before going on course. 

You can expect that on an intense course like this, you will be issued everything you're going to need outside of the list in your joining instructions. Now saying that, my advice is to bring along twice as much underwear/socks that they may suggest in your joining instructions, the rest is irrelevant in my opinion because you're only concern everyday of the course is to successfully get all of your POs, without getting hurt or RTU'd in the meantime.

Good luck and have a great summer!!!! Back in the mid '80s there was an incarnation of this course called "wilderness leadership", it was run out of CFB Petawawa. Anyway, I was on that course in '85 and had a great experience. It will be what you make of it, so enjoy your time there.


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## matt1995

thanks!!


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## 57Chevy

You might want to put "Cadet expedition kit list" in your search engine.
It should give you a whole lot of PDF files to look at.

or

You could check here:      Youth Expeditions Kit List 
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/expert-advice/expedition-kit-list-youth

Hope this helps and have a great summer.
Keep safe.


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## matt1995

thanks, super helpful !  :nod:


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## Loachman

formercadet1029 said:
			
		

> Back in the mid '80s there was an incarnation of this course called "wilderness leadership", it was run out of CFB Petawawa. Anyway, I was on that course in '85 and had a great experience.



Derail...

I was frequently flying the Kiowa doing the daily checks on you guys during your canoe trip.

I also took two CIL (as they were known then) officers for the pre-course recces a couple of times.

One of those chaps was the worst airbarfing case that I ever saw. He filled two bags, a beret, and a pocket or two. Do _*not*_ stuff your stomach with chilli and pickles before going for a lengthy helicopter flight involving a lot of tight turns. The result does not smell very pleasant at all. He was in the back, and it was so bad even in the front seat, with the doors off, that I was almost puking in sympathy.


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## formercadet1029

Loachman said:
			
		

> Derail...
> 
> I was frequently flying the Kiowa doing the daily checks on you guys during your canoe trip.
> 
> I also took two CIL (as they were known then) officers for the pre-course recces a couple of times.
> 
> One of those chaps was the worst airbarfing case that I ever saw. He filled two bags, a beret, and a pocket or two. Do _*not*_ stuff your stomach with chilli and pickles before going for a lengthy helicopter flight involving a lot of tight turns. The result does not smell very pleasant at all. He was in the back, and it was so bad even in the front seat, with the doors off, that I was almost puking in sympathy.


My mistake, it was in '86, not '85. We did several 1-3 day canoe trips that summer, most were local to the Petawawa/Algonquin area, but we did do a 10 day 200k trip (the "demoine river" in Quebec, not sure of spelling). 

Most of our staff were pretty capable/compitent people, but we did have one Officer Cadet that was booted off though, interesting story. I first met this guy after I got of the bus when I arrived for the course. He took one look at my shoulder flashes and capbadge and asked if knew someone he had attended the CF Europe thing in Germany when he was a cadet. I knew who he was talking about and thought to myself, ok at least I might have an in here this summer with somebody, lol. Anyway, a few days later we were on a 1 day canoe trip inside of CFB Petawawa and the entire course had landed on a beach for lunch. This fellow decided he was going to canoe out after he ate, explore the river a bit. He came back to the beach site with some type of missile he found somewhere along shoreline, the tail end with the fins/rocket was actually sticking up in the air out of the front of his canoe. If I recall correctly, two of our Airborne SSF staff assigned to the course that summer immediately went over there and removed him from the canoe by his head, until the MPs showed up. Needless to say, we never saw the guy again. At this point in my cadet career, I was almost 16 years old, and had seen many of those little films over the years about not to mess with stuff like this if you came upon it. You know, the ones that show some kids coming across a up a para-flare and blasting themselves in the face with it, etc. Perhaps this guy was busy the day they showed the film that summerl?


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## Loachman

formercadet1029 said:
			
		

> My mistake, it was in '86, not '85. We did several 1-3 day canoe trips that summer, most were local to the Petawawa/Algonquin area, but we did do a 10 day 200k trip (the "demoine river" in Quebec, not sure of spelling).



I had gone to Germany by that time - early July.

Dumoine, I think.


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## formercadet1029

Loachman said:
			
		

> Dumoine, I think.


Yup, you called it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumoine_River What trip that was, some nutty white water. Can remember prior to that trip, we would all stop at the top of a rapid run, carefully plot our course out before we went down. By the end of the Dumoine trip, the guy in the bow would just stand up and look as we were going down, lol.


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## Loachman

I loved seeing canoes wrapped around rocks and bodies floating downstream. Those were fun flights.


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## formercadet1029

Loachman said:
			
		

> I loved seeing canoes wrapped around rocks and bodies floating downstream. Those were fun flights.


There was one specific lengthy portage that we decided to put in midstream (to avoid humping it through the bush), in the middle what would be at least a level IV rapid. In the middle of the rapid, down at the bottom of a somewhat treacherous chute, there was a green canoe (exactly like those we were paddling in) wrapped around a large boulder. The canoe still had the remnants up near a gunnel of our course designation on it. Our patrol officer told us it had been there for at least a year because he said it was there on his pre-course prior to us arriving, when they did the same trip. You basically could only pass on the one side of this boulder as you were flying down this chute or you were going to be in for it. As we went down this part of the river, this was the only time I think that summer I had any real sense that I may have been in a situation where I had little control. Looking back up river on it, we all agreed that it was foolish to put in there, we should had just stayed on the trail. Things always seem clearer in hindsight I guess.

It's my understanding that the latest incarnation of this course has eliminated much of the dangerous whitewater portions of their canoe experience. While the gung-ho part of me thinks that is a complete drag, the other part (that currently has a son enrolled in the army cadet program) is somewhat relieved that this is something I might not have to worry about when my son takes this course. Don't get me wrong, my whitewater experience that summer on WLC and then the next summer on Leadership & Challenge out in Banff was something that I will never forget. But, sometimes common sense needs to prevail and things need to be looked at a little closer when planning the course training syllabus for these types of courses. When I was in Banff the next year, a girl in my platoon lost her leg as a result of a super freak accident that occurred during our Glacier Expedition in Rogers Pass. BTW, please don't worry too much about what happened to this girl, she grew up and is in the CIC as a Capt., she's pretty remarkable.  :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:


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## ztb97

Just in case anyone wanted some more info, I did the course during the summer and like stated before, bring everything stated on the kit list. But from my experience these following things would really benifit you:
1. *Bring Foot Powder* You won't believe how much this can benifit you. We were usually in combat boots all the time, and on our 50km march we did, foot powder was our savor from blisters. Trust me on that, it will be your best friend, so bring as much as possible with you (2 bottles can work)
2. *Shoe polish and Polish applicator* You obv need shoe polish to bring with you for your parade boots, but I recommend you bring a few extra tins for your combat boots. You will chew through a lot of polish on those boots cause they will always be dirty. Trust me when I say this the polish applicator is an important thing to bring. You can buy it yes but when everyone else on Expedition Instructor needs one, you having one just might save the day. 
3. *Baby Whipes* You may not be babysitting babies during the course, but when in the woods, they are the best thing for toliet paper (we called them one whipe wonders for a reason) and cleaning yourself up. 
4.*Water Bag* It doesnt matter the brand, but having one for out in the woods in great. It's a lot easier then taking your bottle out every couple of minutes to have a sip of water, and the canteens can be for spare. At the end of the day, it's not needed, but highly recommended
5.*Blister Banades/Gun Tape/ Duck Tape* Yes they have the bandades it in the first aid kits, but they will usually be wet during every portion of the expedition.......having your own and having it waterproofed will make you day better when dealing with blisters(you will have LOTS, learn how to treat them)
6. *Pt Shoes* The Cadet ones are just downright bad. Buy some nice sneakers from Walmart cause doing Morning PT wearing what feels like boxes on your feet just sucks(and vibrams don't count for pt shoes OR watershoes unless you like sore feet and plenty of blisters)
7.*Belt* Your cadet belt will save your combats from falling to you ankles. No pants can fit perfect.
8.*Green t-shirts* Once you have enough get more. Label them to cause they will get mixed up with someone else
9.*Dry Bag ( 50 litre )* They will supply one for the canoeing and kyacking but having your own for the training and hiking portion would help A LOt. Laugh at everyone who has wet clothes when you're dry (don't actually but just bath in your glory quietly)
10.*Baggies and misquito repellent* Baggies will be good for waterproffing the small things and for the repellent, bring dryer sheets and ( I can't remember how to spell it) musquoil. Dryer sheets (the bounce ones) can repell misquitos if you just have them on you in your clothes.

If I forgot anything please add some!!


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## X Royal

You do realize that you responded to a post that was last active almost 3 years ago?


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## Nfld Sapper




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## PMedMoe

Necropost, yes.  This is what caught my eye:



			
				ztb97 said:
			
		

> and on our 50km march we did





I hope that's a typo.....


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## ztb97

Hey I checked post last year guys so you never know who is looking! And I am not! It was over the span of I think 5 days. Best hike of my life


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## RedcapCrusader

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Necropost, yes.  This is what caught my eye:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that's a typo.....



Not necessarily. When I was a cadet we trekked the Juan de Fuca Trail which is 47km (not accounting for elevation).


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## dangerboy

Of course it does help that it is clarified that the 50 km was over the span of 5 days, not in one shot.


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## ztb97

Very true. but neither the less, it was hard for kids, but like the other guy said, the elevation was the worst part (hills and stuff). Nothing like rolling down a hill with a ruck on


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## PMedMoe

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Of course it does help that it is clarified that the 50 km was over the span of 5 days, not in one shot.



Yes, that certainly makes more sense now.   :nod:


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## Burrows

We spend so much time asking people to use the search function that I think we should acknowledge the value added to this instead of having someone create a new topic.

Thanks for adding to our resources.


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