# Women In the Infantry



## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

Hi everyone, 

                   I personally have a couple questions, that I want to get out before I go for my interview this coming week.  

                   To begin, I will just give you a bit of background. I have always wanted to be in the Army, It has basically been a calling for me. I live for, and love a challenge, I cant bear a job where I am stuck behind a desk, doing the same thing day in and day out. I want to learn new things, experience new people, places, and challenges. 
                   
                    I have also, always been interested in having an occupation that keeps me on my toes, challenges me everyday, and is not boring. One that is in fact, a team effort, and physical.

                    I believe I am moderately fit (could be better), I am 20 years old, and yes, I am a woman. I feel that though, you do not see or hear much about woman in the infantry, and I CAN wrap my head around the fact that , yes, not many woman would pick this particular occupation.

                    *My question is: *
                    For any woman who are currently or who have been in the infantry. Can you share you experiences. and give me and helpful tips and advice?
                    Also, for infantry soldiers or officers as a whole, male or female. You all can answer this. 

Thanks for your time, and comments.


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## mariomike (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> *My question is: *
> For any woman who are currently or who have been in the infantry. Can you share you experiences. and give me and helpful tips and advice?
> Also, for infantry soldiers or officers as a whole, male or female. You all can answer this.



Topic: "Gender & the CF; Women in Combat Arms, Infantry, Special Forces & Battle":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27742.0/nowap.html?PHPSESSID=ei71smum5g15lp6t8s28v95282
( 40 pages )

Lots more:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=001303416948774225061%3Aqhcx9pz3dku&ie=UTF-8&q=women+combat&sa=Search&siteurl=www.google.com%2Fcse%2Fhome%3Fcx%3D001303416948774225061%3Aqhcx9pz3dku&ref=#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=women%20combat


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## Loachman (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> I want to ... experience new people



Well, ummmm...

Plenty of Fish?

Seriously, there's boredom to be found in the Infantry, and even in the Pilot profession, but also tremendous rewards.

You won't really know until you've done it for a while.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Well, ummmm...
> 
> Plenty of Fish?
> 
> ...



When I say 'experience new people' I mean meet new people, make new friends, etc.

I think a lot of the reason I do want to be in the Infantry is because of the challenge and hard work, but then the "tremendous rewards" (as you put it) afterwards.

I also, want to take aprt in a lot of humanitarian work, if I do get into the the infantry.


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## aesop081 (27 Apr 2012)

> I also, want to take aprt in a lot of humanitarian work, if I do get into the the infantry.



You don't get to pick the work you do. That and the role of the infantry is not to "be humanitarian to the enemy".


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## Danjanou (27 Apr 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I also, want to take aprt in a lot of humanitarian work, if I do get into the the infantry.
> 
> 
> You don't get to pick the work you do. That and the role of the infantry is not to "be humanitarian to the enemy".




It's not?

You mean it wasn't changed to "Close with and deliver warm fuzzy hugs and stuffed teddies." 8)


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## GAP (27 Apr 2012)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> It's not?
> 
> You mean it wasn't changed to "Close with and deliver warm fuzzy hugs and stuffed teddies." 8)



shhh.....don't tell them...


as for stuffed teddies.....yum, yum.....


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## Loachman (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> When I say 'experience new people' I mean meet new people, make new friends, etc.



Yes, we know, but if you give us the slightest opportunity to exploit your wording, expect at least one of us to do so.

Add "occasionally kill them" to the list as well.

The role of the Infantry is "to close with and destroy the enemy". Everything else is fluff.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You don't get to pick the work you do. That and the role of the infantry is not to "be humanitarian to the enemy".





HAHA, of course I understand that.  :facepalm:  But looking into the occupation more thoroughly I found that, that have built/donated wells, helped train police forces in haiti, given clothing/toys to adults/families/children, built homes, clearing mines etc.


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## GAP (27 Apr 2012)

Those functions are secondary to security


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## MikeL (27 Apr 2012)

..


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

GAP said:
			
		

> Those functions are secondary to security



Very true. Those functions are *one of the many* reasons as to why I would like this career.  :warstory:


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## MikeL (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Very true. Those functions are *one of the many* reasons as to why I would like this career.  :warstory:



I know plenty of dudes in the infantry who have never done one of those humanitarian things.  Not to say it doesn't happen,  but don't expect that you would be doing that kind of stuff.  As well,  if those types of things are happening,  the Infantry could just be handaling the security and not the actual work of building wells, land mine clearing, etc which sounds more like Engineer tasks IMO.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> You don't seem able to grasp that the Infantry's job is to close with and destroy,  handing out toys and clothing is not part of Battle School or a Battalion field excercise.  If you want to do the humanitarian thing as a primary job,  look else where.




Let me rephrase everything so that you all understand. You all have seemed to take one sentence that said, and assumed that was my only reasoning for joining the military.* The humanitarian thing is NOT what I want to do as a PRIMARY job.* 


Its is simply something that sparked interest to me as well as other things such as: 

-mastering high-tech weapons and vehicles [ LAV iii's C-7's etc], patrolling, special-ops, gunning. 

-*Physical*, challenging, team-effort, as well as leadership, LOTS TO LEARN. 

When I had said I wanted to 'take part in the humanitarian stuff', my wording might have been off. I basically meant, it would be an experience to do that, and I find that interesting?

Does that make better sense.


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## MikeL (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Its is simply something that sparked interest to me as well as other things such as:
> 
> , special-ops,



Unless you get into CANSOFCOM,  you won't do anything related to "special ops" as a Infantry Soldier in a Battalion.


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## SeaKingTacco (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC,

We are just trying to make sure that you are under no illusion about what the primary role of the Infantry is.

You will also find that soldiers are blunt.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> RyaeC,
> 
> We are just trying to make sure that you are under no illusion about what the primary role of the Infantry is.
> 
> You will also find that soldiers are blunt.



I understand that. I appreciate all the feedback. It only helps me futher, better my knowledge of my chosen career. I am glad that that particular illusion, has been clarified. 

Now I just wonder why it is even presented on the recruting website  ???


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Unless you get into CANSOFCOM,  you won't do anything related to "special ops" as a Infantry Soldier in a Battalion.




I know its far off, but you never know, anything can happen. Maybe far in the future perhaps?


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## MikeL (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Now I just wonder why it is even presented on the recruting website  ???



I don't see any mention of it on the website
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/infantrysoldier-4#info-1




			
				RyaeC said:
			
		

> I know its far off, but you never know, anything can happen. Maybe far in the future perhaps?



You aren't even in yet,  I would focus more on the getting in part then BMQ, etc then the anything can happen,  maybe in the future.  Get in, get trained,  learn the job get experience and then consider other options if you are still even interested in that route.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> I don't see any mention of it on the website
> http://www.forces.ca/en/job/infantrysoldier-4#info-1



Its is mentioned briefly in the video.

4:49.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> You aren't even in yet,  I would focus more on the getting in part then BMQ, etc then the anything can happen,  maybe in the future.  Get in, get trained,  learn the job get experience and then consider other options if you are still even interested in that route.



HAHA, good point Sir. Maybe I am a little to ambitious. Is that a bad thing?


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## MikeL (27 Apr 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> HAHA, good point Sir. Maybe I am a little to ambitious. Is that a bad thing?



Not a Sir,  being ambitious isn't a bad thing,  but that ambition should maybe be directed towards what is immediately in front of you not at what is at least a couple years away.  As well,  getting into the Infantry may not even happen for awhile as the trade is not allowing in as large numbers as it used to.  Search a bit more and you will see threads by people who have been waiting to get into the Infantry for awhile.


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Not a Sir,  being ambitious isn't a bad thing,  but that ambition should maybe be directed towards what is immediately in front of you not at what is at least a couple years away.  As well,  getting into the Infantry may not even happen for awhile as the trade is not allowing in as large numbers as it used to.  Search a bit more and you will see threads by people who have been waiting to get into the Infantry for awhile.



Thank you, will do.


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## PPCLI Guy (27 Apr 2012)

Now that everyone has finished parsing each of your sentences without answering any of you questions (it is as much about fatigue from answering the same questions over and over again as it is about bluntness), I will try to provide some feedback.

The infantry is a very rewarding trade, but it is not for the fainthearted, the thin-skinned, the weak-kneed or the work-avoider.  It is very demanding physically, surprisingly (for the uninitiated) demanding intellectually, and will build your character like few other endeavours in your life will.  You will forge bonds with fellow soldiers that are literally unimaginable on civvie street.  You will endure mind-numbing boredom, soul-crushing routine, and life-defining challenges at various times throughout your career, and occasionally all in the same day.

Your gender is completely immaterial.  It could not matter less.  Only your performance, motivation and dedication will matter, and it is all that will be judged, but you need to understand that it will be judged harshly and without let up - for you as for every other soldier.

If you want that kind of challenge, then embrace it.  Don't overthink it.  Don't over-research it.  Ferchrissakes don't allow your decision to be based on the feedback from faceless people on the internet.  Just do it.  I guarantee that it will change you, one way or another, irrespective of whether or not you are successful in training, or whether you do it for 3, 6, 20 or 30 years.

Does that help?


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## the 48th regulator (27 Apr 2012)

Thank you PPCLI Guy,

Please folks, let us keep this civil.  I do not want to close this thread, however, I will monitor it an punish those that do not follow guidelines.

RyaeC, explore the site, as you will find many of the questions that come to mind, have more than likely already have been answered in our forums.

dileas

tess

milnet.ca moderator


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## RyaeC (27 Apr 2012)

Thank you PPCLI Guy, 


Finally I got the feed back I was looking for. I needed to read/hear everything you just typed there. 

I respect the bluntness of it. It is the reality of the situation, and it is not all fluffed up. 

" Only your performance, motivation and dedication will matter, and it is all that will be judged, but you need to understand that it will be judged harshly and without let up - for you as for every other soldier." 

I understand it will be a challenge and it will change who I am. Which is what makes it so exciting.  I want a challenging , different and exciting job. I want to meet new people, and learn a vast amount of new things. I will basically be a sponge. I can not wait.

But obviously the wait time/application process is a whole other issue. I know it is worth the wait though.

Thanks for your feedback. Much appreaciated.


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## NovaScotiaNewfie (27 Apr 2012)

Check to see if there are local Infantry  Reserve  Regiments in your area.  You look into joining and if you enjoy the infantry you could put in for a transfer to the Reg Force.


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## vonGarvin (28 Apr 2012)

I would answer your question here truthfully; however, I'm not certain it would fall within site guidelines.  So, if you want my opinion, say so, and I'll send it to you in a PM.  If not, I'll go back to dragging my knuckles.


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

*UPDATE:*

I had my interview today, It went superbly well (I believe). I was merit listed for two very different careers, 

- Infantry Soldier (Army)
- Steward (Navy)

It was said that I was very competitive, and am very fit for both positions. 

Also that "It would be of great pleasure for me (Him) to sumbit you (Me) to be merit listed asap". Which I am taking as a good thing!

I am very pleased, and Selection is apparently upcoming in June 2012! Fingers crossed! I am anticipating and very excited.

Thanks for the Advice and for everyone for taking time out to help me. 

P.S. is it normal to be merit listed for two positions at the same time? 

(Either way I am glad, [also I posted this in another forum to appreciate all that help me there! I am aware.])


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## the 48th regulator (2 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> *UPDATE:*
> 
> - Infantry Soldier (Army)
> - Steward (Navy)




I want to congratulate you for a showing today!  I am not picking on you, so please don't take offense but talk about two trades at opposite ends of the spectrum!

Look at them as Ying and Yang....North and South....Hot and Cold...Navy and Arm.....You get the picture.

dileas

tess


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## Jarnhamar (2 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I had my interview today, It went superbly well (I believe). I was merit listed for two very different careers,
> 
> ...


 I think you should pick something other than the infantry- just my opinion.


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I want to congratulate you for a showing today!  I am not picking on you, so please don't take offense but talk about two trades at opposite ends of the spectrum!
> 
> Look at them as Ying and Yang....North and South....Hot and Cold...Navy and Arm.....You get the picture.
> 
> ...



I know right, huge difference!? 

When I first applied I had chose Infantry soldier. Although my family were a little unsettled by this and I decided to change my focus for them. Hence, the decision for Steward. It had a lot of similarities with my current job, and I figured I would do well in it. I had finished my interview for Steward, I was merit listed but then got dropped. I then decided to think and talk to my family about my consistent desire to be an infantry soldier or officer, and we came to a conclusion. Which led me to reapply, and then now I am where I am. Complicated, I know.


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I think you should pick something other than the infantry- just my opinion.




Why is that, may I ask?


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## Bzzliteyr (2 May 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I think you should pick something other than the infantry- just my opinion.



I too question that statement.. 

Did you mean that you are infantry and have had a bad experience therefore you don't recommend it?  Or did you mean that you've judged her by the posts here and don't think she's cut out for it? Or is it something else?


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Or did you mean that you've judged her by the posts here and don't think she's cut out for it?



I hope that I have not come off to whomever has read my posts as someone unfitting for my personal career aspirations. 

Also, I am hoping, if I was in an interview with a Captain with former infantry officer experience, who believed I would be an asset, and fit really well based on my back ground, education, knowledge etc. One would hope he would not just send random people who he did not think "were cut out for it", and merit list them for potential employment! 

I am thinking he probably might be speaking from personal experience?

 ???


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## Loachman (2 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Hence, the decision for Steward. It had a lot of similarities with my current job,



Aren't Stewards the ones who hold the screaming and flailing patients down as the surgeon saws off cannon-shattered limbs with a breadknife and no anaesthetic other than rum as the wounded stack up at the height of the battle?

Or has Naval Medicine advanced since I last watched Master and Commander?


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

All I can say is... no.


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## ModlrMike (2 May 2012)

No to the first or second part?


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

"Aren't Stewards the ones who hold the screaming and flailing patients down as the surgeon saws off cannon-shattered limbs with a breadknife and no anaesthetic other than rum as the wounded stack up at the height of the battle?"


From what I have researched about the Steward trade in the Navy, this does not occur. Not usually something that makes people want to apply  :2c:


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## Jarnhamar (2 May 2012)

RyaeC, I'll be candid with you.

Personally I do not like working with females in the infantry. Both for the high percent of them that I've found tried using being a female to their advantage, played the flirty flirty game, weren't up to it physically or mentally AND because of how stupid male soldiers behave and act near them.  Makes me embarrassed being male.
(I'm talking from a grunt level, it seems to be different for officers). 
You can say well that's the guys problem not mine, but it is. Because the infantry is a small team environment and if you're the odd one out for whatever reason than your time there is hell. You date one of the guys in your unit and as silly as it is, the guys stop seeing you as a soldier and more as a chick that corporal whoever was humping.

My personally feelings aside, from what I have witnessed women that join the infantry sooner rather than later end up leaving. They don't like it, they don't like how guys treat them, they get tired of the BS. They don't have a lot of fun.  It's not fair but guys treat them differently, judge them much harsher and don't often accept them as peers or equals.
You should ask why there are not many women in the infantry. It's not that they absolutely can't do it physically, mentally or skill wise on their own, some  can and excel at it. There are a LOT of very fit females in the CF.  In the infantry, as a troop (private/corporal) it's how the pack treats you.   Every little mistake a woman makes gets blown out of proportion.  It's not fair and it's not cool. Sorry.

There are lots of (well quite a few)  women in combat arms.  Artillery. Engineers. Armored. There are very very few in the infantry.

I hope you join the Canadian Forces but as a soldier with a bit of time in I think you will enjoy the military much more if you pick something other than infantry.


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## brihard (2 May 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> RyaeC, I'll be candid with you.
> 
> Personally I do not like working with females in the infantry. Both for the high percent of them that I've found tried using being a female to their advantage, played the flirty flirty game, weren't up to it physically or mentally AND because of how stupid male soldiers behave and act near them.  Makes me embarrassed being male.
> (I'm talking from a grunt level, it seems to be different for officers).
> ...



Reluctantly, I have to agree with much of what he's saying. I have had the privilege of working with some excellent female infanteers, but only a few, and fewer still stick around.

The infantry is, primarily, an alpha male environment, predominately dominant type-A personalities too. A lot of aggressive, driven young men who self-reinforce on behaviour patterns. You will put up with a LOT of shit. There will be at least a small proportion who probably won't be able to get past seeing you as a piece of meat, and who will be bad at getting the hint when rebuffed. Dating anyone at work (should that occur) will have the exact consequences ObedientiaZelum talks about. When a dude screws up, 'whatever, he screwed up'. When a woman screws up, many are quick to jump to 'What did you expect? She's a chick.' Some men simply will not accept that you could potentially be as good as them or better at the job. It's ugly and backwards, but it is what it is.

You, I'm sure, are perfectly capable of being a good soldier in the infantry. I would be surprised if after much time you'd still want to. It's a challenging enough environment for anyone. Coming into it not fitting in by default will make it still tougher, and frankly you'd be subjecting yourself to more crap than any person should have to deal with, and more than most are able to. You'll be surrounded constantly by 'guys being guys' distilled to our essence- and it often ain't pretty.

That is my opinion, and I'm sure a few folks will be along before long to jump on me (and OZ) for it. I would never recommend joining the infantry to a female friend or relative, however, and would probably speak on the matter much more candidly still than I have here.


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> RyaeC, I'll be candid with you.
> 
> Personally I do not like working with females in the infantry. Both for the high percent of them that I've found tried using being a female to their advantage, played the flirty flirty game, weren't up to it physically or mentally AND because of how stupid male soldiers behave and act near them.  Makes me embarrassed being male.
> (I'm talking from a grunt level, it seems to be different for officers).
> ...




I see what you are saying, and I agree, naturally men WILL act differently around a woman.

The difference being though that I am going into a professional career, and from a professional stand point. Fraternization with the men, will not occur. Not only because I have a boyfriend at home, but also single or not, this is a career, this is a professional environment. Not a frat house. 

Now, also, thank you for the honestly, I talked to recruiters about my decision and they all said that they have seen lots of success for woman in the infantry. Also, I am prepared to pull my own weight, and NOT use my gender as a reason to "slack" and/or "manipulate". I think any behaviour like that makes me feel embarrassed to be a woman. I do not agree with it.

I am prepared, to expect the "BS" from the guys, but if I can perform, and do things without complaining, slacking etc. Then I believe through that, you can gain respect. It may take longer etc. 

I am hoping since I have mostly dealt with males in Army Cadets and in general as I have more male friends than female. I will be able to deal with some of the harping.

I can show them that I: 

1) Do not take any BS.
2) I am prepared to not slack,depend or pull out the female card.

But I respect what you have to say, and I thank you for your opinion.


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## Jarnhamar (2 May 2012)

Fair enough.

Just consider the phrase no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. I would bet Brihard's magic the gathering card collection (ha) that most of the girls who got caught up in all the mentioned unnicities didn't plan on it either.  Either way good luck.


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## RyaeC (2 May 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Either way good luck.



Thank you! I look forward to (hopefully) getting "the call" and starting out in a challenging and new exciting career choice.


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## brihard (2 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Thank you! I look forward to (hopefully) getting "the call" and starting out in a challenging and new exciting career choice.



It will certainly be those things.


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## Scott (2 May 2012)

I'm dizzy - how many of these "women in the CF" threads have been posted in the last couple of days?


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## Mushroom (3 May 2012)

Congratulations on doing well enough to be considered "competitive", Infantry has been highly competitive in recent years and I wish you the best of luck getting an offer come June, just go's to show that interviews and medicals are nothing to worry about when your prepared. 

 That said, ObedientiaZelum and Brihard have there points.  Infantry has been proven to be difficult for women in the past, present and will probably continue to be for a few more years until more women step up to the plate to prove them wrong, so its very important that should you be offered a position and you take it,  that you do not take it lightly, another female dropping out of infantry encourages the theory that females can't cut it, it will also discourage future females from trying. It doesn't just look bad on yourself, it looks bad on all females. 

  Make sure you are fitter than fit, someone sitting across a desk and telling you, you appear fit is nothing.  Do not show up to your BMQ able to meet the standard which (and I'm sure others will agree) is already a bit of a joke. Showing up and doing 9 pushups to pass or running till level 4 on the beep test is like putting on a sign that says " I'm going to take advantage of being a girl and only do what I have to" I've had the pleasure and displeasure of meeting many infantrymen and for the most part there gym jockeys working out multiple hours a day (or so in my experience) which means their definitely exceeding the male standard and I believe your goal should be to do the same, if for no other reason than to show them you can do this from day 1.

 You are going to be bullied,  there are no if's ands or but's about it. Prep yourself mentally,  I know you stated that you hang out with a primarily male entourage but I doubt those males are constantly taking stabs at you and callling you names. The level of perversion is also more than likely much tamer due to the fact that they respect you and don't consider you a piece of meat. After awhile the men you serve with will come to accept you but that may take some time and your going to have to earn it. In the meantime be prepared to be bullied, everyone is going to expect more of you especially your female counterparts, the last thing other female infanteers need is another girl showing up and making them look bad. 

 If you want to date in the military date, theres a reason you often see military dating and marrying other military. That said, for the love of god keep it out of your trade/unit. 

 I wish you the best of luck but please make sure this is what you want to do, it wont be easy, it may be one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do but that makes succeeding all the more sweet. I 100% believe that one day it wont be like this (look at how bad it was for women in even the non combat arms roles in the 70's) Things change, but for now every female that trys and gives up makes it that much harder for the next female, if enough women show up and show there the exception to the rule eventually the rule will change.


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## Scott (3 May 2012)

Umm, why not make it a whole _exceed standards for the good of the job/self_ thingermerbober rather than _exceed the standard just so you can show the guys you mean business_? Guys do not spend "hours a day" working out just to further raise the bar for you...


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## kenmnuggas (4 May 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Umm, why not make it a whole _exceed standards for the good of the job/self_ thingermerbober rather than _exceed the standard just so you can show the guys you mean business_? Guys do not spend "hours a day" working out just to further raise the bar for you...



I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Do work or don't complain if people don't take you seriously.
Also I'm not sure where he implied that guys spending hours in a gym was in efforts to raise the bar for females ???


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## daftandbarmy (4 May 2012)

Way to do your bit for the economy:

Economic opportunity for women
Where to be female 

..Where women have the most and least economic opportunities

MARKING International Women's Day on March 8th, the Economist Intelligence Unit, The Economist's sister company, has published its second Women's Economic Opportunity Index, assessing the environment for female employees and entrepreneurs across 128 countries. Nearly half the world’s women of working-age are not currently active in the formal labour market. As governments seek to revive ailing economies, welcoming these 1.5 billion women into formal employment will become ever more important. 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/03/economic-opportunity-women?fb_ref=activity


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## Redeye (4 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> I see what you are saying, and I agree, naturally men WILL act differently around a woman.
> 
> The difference being though that I am going into a professional career, and from a professional stand point. Fraternization with the men, will not occur. Not only because I have a boyfriend at home, but also single or not, this is a career, this is a professional environment. Not a frat house.



It's not a frat house, true. But it's not like most civilian workplaces. The way that military people interact is not at all like civilians. I'm a Reservist so I get to see both sides of the street, and there's literally a night and day difference.



			
				RyaeC said:
			
		

> Now, also, thank you for the honestly, I talked to recruiters about my decision and they all said that they have seen lots of success for woman in the infantry. Also, I am prepared to pull my own weight, and NOT use my gender as a reason to "slack" and/or "manipulate". I think any behaviour like that makes me feel embarrassed to be a woman. I do not agree with it.



That's good, and important - but what you do doesn't matter nearly as much as perceptions - and frankly, they're going to be aimed squarely against you. You may do none of those things, but that doesn't mean people won't assume you do. I'm not telling you it's acceptable, that I like it, but that's what I've seen in a lot of cases.



			
				RyaeC said:
			
		

> I am prepared, to expect the "BS" from the guys, but if I can perform, and do things without complaining, slacking etc. Then I believe through that, you can gain respect. It may take longer etc.
> 
> I am hoping since I have mostly dealt with males in Army Cadets and in general as I have more male friends than female. I will be able to deal with some of the harping.
> 
> ...



Cadets and the military are nothing like each other, at all. I'm not going to tell you not to go for it - if it's what you want and you've done your homework - but I think everyone here just wants to make sure you have the most realistic expectations. You're looking at joining what is one of the last "all boys clubs" around. It's admirable that you're willing to go for it, but just make sure you get as much perspective as possible.

Oh, and don't put much stock in anything recruiters tell you.


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## Scott (4 May 2012)

kenmnuggas said:
			
		

> I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Do work or don't complain if people don't take you seriously.
> Also I'm not sure where he implied that guys spending hours in a gym was in efforts to raise the bar for females ???



Exactly my point. It's not a thing for the guys, so do not make it into one. 

I look at it lie golf - you're playing against one person: the standards. Motivation is fine but I have seen it cross the line into being a chip on the shoulder, for both genders, and that never wins friends.


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## Jarnhamar (4 May 2012)

kenmnuggas said:
			
		

> I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Do work or don't complain if people don't take you seriously.
> Also I'm not sure where he implied that guys spending hours in a gym was in efforts to raise the bar for females ???



Uhh, what?


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## ttlbmg (4 May 2012)

My interpretation, when reading that statement was that folks in the infantry are, generally, in working out a bit. Not sure if their intention is to "raise the bar" for anyone. From what I am reading, I think was the person was getting at was that don't just be in good shape _for a girl_; be in excellent shape period if you are planning on joining the infantry. It is a physically demanding trade. I think sometimes it gets a bad rap though for being a boy's club. Some of the most accepting people I have met have been in the infantry!


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## RyaeC (4 May 2012)

Thank you everyone for your advice, I am going to continue to work on my Physical Fitness, and go further that to just be "fit for a girl". 

I try to work out everyday, depending on work schedule (I am a manager, so hours for me are everywhere). 

I will continue to strive to better than my personal expectations. I want to be ready for BMQ, I do not want it to be 10 times harder because I was unprepared. I would rather be more fit, and healthy and still find it challenging, than to get there unprepared, and be struggling to keep up.

I am definitely, taking everyone's advice here, as you all have been through it, and your advice is more valid than anyone else.

Thank you. I am glad there is a forum like this one, as it is a great tool.


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## Mushroom (4 May 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Umm, why not make it a whole _exceed standards for the good of the job/self_ thingermerbober rather than _exceed the standard just so you can show the guys you mean business_? Guys do not spend "hours a day" working out just to further raise the bar for you...




I was not implying that these men are spending hours a day in the gym in order to raise the bar for women, but more often than not these men are spending hours a day in the gym working on there own personal fitness which means they are most likely exceeding the male standard and she should as well try and exceed this standard to show them that she can do this, by which I mean her job, from day 1.  She will no doubt run into more problems if she already uses her gender to her advantage by passing the pt test meeting only the female standard.


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## Scott (4 May 2012)

Yeah, thanks for that. It was a statement of my own.


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## Mushroom (4 May 2012)

Based on something I had said that you misunderstood and I wanted to clarify


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## Scott (4 May 2012)

Guess you should have been more clear at the outset :nod:


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## daftandbarmy (7 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Thank you everyone for your advice, I am going to continue to work on my Physical Fitness, and go further that to just be "fit for a girl".
> 
> I try to work out everyday, depending on work schedule (I am a manager, so hours for me are everywhere).
> 
> ...



Hey, if you want to be in the infantry, why be so nice and reasonable?  ;D


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## RyaeC (8 May 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Hey, if you want to be in the infantry, why be so nice and reasonable?  ;D




What's wrong with either of those things?


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## daftandbarmy (11 May 2012)

RyaeC said:
			
		

> What's wrong with either of those things?



One could argue that these qualities clash with the demands of the prevailing culture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pzxb2sxbDU&feature=related


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## Dkeh (14 May 2012)

The Infantry will become what you make of it - effort in, reward out. But as others have said, you seriously have to realize that the Army (Infantry included) is NOT a regular job. People do not interact with each other in the same way, work is not assigned in the same way, and everyone is expected to pull their own weight. 

One of the things I have seen in my experience is as follows. When you join the Army, your instructors job is to tear you down and rebuild you. You get yelled at, made to do $****y jobs, made to carry things, and singled out. This is not exclusive to women- everyone is treated like S***, and everyone feels like they are being singled out when they have to do fire picket from 0200 until 0400. If you act like you got the crappiest job because of your gender, people WILL view you as a whiner, or lazy, or other. If d*** jokes offend you, this might not be the right trade for you (again, I am going from my own personal experience, which is limited to my small square of Canada). 

I do not change how I act if a female soldier is around, because I do not discriminate based on gender. I will act with you the same way I act around males, and if this offends you, either A) pretend it doesn't, or B) pick a different job. Guys fart, scratch their b***s, and make crude jokes- we don't do it because a female is around, we just do (especially in the Infantry world). As long as you accept that, you will have no problems. That being said, if someone is being outright sexist, that is an issue. The Army does not tolerate that s***, and more often than not, your fellow platoon-mates will sort the offender out.  

Good luck with your chosen career. Keep in mind that bigots are everywhere, and the Army is no exception.


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## HopefulA.B. (15 May 2012)

Daft: i guess people have to be prepared to kill...


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## daftandbarmy (16 May 2012)

HopefulA.B. said:
			
		

> Daft: i guess people have to be prepared to kill...



In the Infantry? 

Yes, of course, E.g., 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuAkUvPIk_c
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/mt-longdon.htm

Or you might want to read this... or maybe not:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41265/post-354806.html#msg354806


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## Delaney1986 (4 Jun 2013)

I know this thread is old but it was a good read. Anyone know if the OP made into the Infantry?? Would love to hear how she made out.


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## MikeL (4 Jun 2013)

You can try sending a PM to her,  depending on her account settings she may get a email saying there is a PM for her on this website.


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## Conz (4 Jun 2013)

Delete.


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## MikeL (4 Jun 2013)

Conz,  I'm not sure how that article relates to women being in the Infantry(Canadian); as none of those women are Infantry, they are American MPs, Int, Pilot, etc.


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## Conz (4 Jun 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Conz,  not sure how that article relates to women being in the Infantry(Canadian); as none of those women are Infantry, they are MPs, Int, Pilot, etc.



Skeletor, thanks for replying. I actually thought this was a different thread that shares a similar title. Whoops!


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## Motard (4 Jun 2013)

I'm a little late to the party but I'm curious as to why you'd make Steward your second choice, that's a night and day difference. For all that time talking up the infantry life, it would make more sense to have other combat arms trades selected.


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## MikeL (4 Jun 2013)

Motard said:
			
		

> I'm a little late to the party but I'm curious as to why you'd make Steward your second choice, that's a night and day difference. For all that time talking up the infantry life, it would make more sense to have other combat arms trades selected.



You're replying to a post from May 2012, and RyaeC hasn't been on this website since Oct 2012


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## Delaney1986 (4 Jun 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> You can try sending a PM to her,  depending on her account settings she may get a email saying there is a PM for her on this website.



Good plan. I'll give it a shot! 
Thanks!


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## Motard (4 Jun 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> You're replying to a post from May 2012, and RyaeC hasn't been on this website since Oct 2012



Ha, I thought I was late because it started back in early May, didn't see the 2012 part. :facepalm:


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