# New DRDC Military Chronology of CF in Afghanistan



## The Bread Guy (19 Jan 2011)

Nancy Teeple, "Canada in Afghanistan: 2001 to 2010:  A Military Chronology", Defence R&D Canada – CORA Contract Report, DRDC CORA CR 2010-282, December 2010

.zip file of PDF (100+ pages) attached


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## vonGarvin (19 Jan 2011)

Nice try, but junk.  This thing is full of spelling errors, and irrelevant information.  For example:

It provides a "butcher's bill" of every soldier killed there.

It talks about stuff that has bugger all to do with Canada in Afghanistan, such as terror attacks in India, and the US Invasion of Iraq.  Yes, noteworthy events, but have nothing to do with "Canada in Afghanistan"

Warrant Officer is abbreviated as "W/O"

2 CMBG HQ and Sig Sqn is abbreviated as "2 CMBG HQ and Sigs Sqn" (merely a "red-button" issue of mine, in that for no real reason this really sets me off)


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## Michael OLeary (19 Jan 2011)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> (merely a "red-button" issue of mine, in that for no real reason this really sets me off)



It's called _anal-retentive-staff-officer-itis_.  There's no cure, but there is a facility in Ottawa where sufferers can be led to believe they're normal and can fit in with their peers.


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## Journeyman (19 Jan 2011)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Nice try, but junk.



Well, the author _is_ a librarian by training.





> Nancy Teeple, M.A., *M.L.I.S*., is a strategic analyst at the Directorate of Land Concepts and
> Designs (DLCD) CFB Kingston, conducting research on issues of Arctic security and defence.


Chronological sequence in shelving is more important than the books' actual content.


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## vonGarvin (19 Jan 2011)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> It's called _anal-retentive-staff-officer-itis_.  There's no cure, but there is a facility in Ottawa where sufferers can be led to believe they're normal and can fit in with their peers.


:rofl:


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jan 2011)

I don't know much about the process, but even though the author is the main "pen", shouldn't whoever OK'ed the paper up the line (not to mention scoped out what it should cover beforehand) take their share of the blame, too?  After all, I think more than one person posting to these forums has lived examples of "I get told to write one thing, end up writing something else, and see even more added/cut/changed during approvals".


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## Journeyman (19 Jan 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> .....shouldn't whoever OK'ed the paper .....take their share of the blame, too?



Well...since I've already mocked librarians.....you mean, this person?


> Approved by
> _Original signed by Stephane Lefebvre_
> Stephane Lefebvre
> Section Head Strategic Analysis






> Mr. Stéphane Lefebvre .....served as an army reserve intelligence officer


  :stirpot:

 ;D


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jan 2011)

You naughty boy.....  ;D


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## Infanteer (19 Jan 2011)

The errors I picked up through a mere scroll through makes me wonder how much effort was put into triangulating sources and how much was just cut and paste.


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## observor 69 (19 Jan 2011)

You mean this Nancy Teeple  :-\  

Nancy Teeple Strategic Analyst at Nancy Teeple Consulting 

Ontario, Canada 
Contact Nancy Teeple 
Add Nancy Teeple to your network 

Current Strategic Analyst at Nancy Teeple Consulting 
Connections  3 connections Industry Research 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nancy Teeple’s Experience
Strategic Analyst 
Nancy Teeple Consulting
(Research industry)

http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/nancy-teeple/23/88a/96a


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## bdcasey916 (19 Jan 2011)

I agree, this paper is junk.  I was the medic that went on Op Moshtarak and the dates are wrong and they only give mention to the chopper pilots that flew ISAF troops in.  No credit given to the 33 Canadian troops on the ground mentoring the ANA


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## vonGarvin (19 Jan 2011)

No mention of the Change of Command Authority in September, 2008, between 2 PPCLI and 3 RCR.  

Lists February, 2009 as Change of Command Authority to 2 R22eR.  (It happened in April 2009)


Also, this part makes my blood boil, only because I was within earshot of one of these incidents:



> Master Corporal Scott Vernelli and Corporal Tyler Crooks, 3 RCR, and Troopers Corey Hayes and Jack Bouthillier, Royal Canadian Dragoons, are killed when an IED exploded near their patrol in the Zhari district.



MCpl Vernelli and Cpl Crooks were killed in Zhari (not on patrol, but conducting operations).   Tprs Hayes and Bouthillier were killed in Shah-Wali Kot.  All troops were participating in Operation JALEY (JELAY?), which in terms of NATO troops, was huge: 3 RCR BG and 2/2 Infantry (US).


And Op KALAY didn't begin in March 2009.  Pure and utter junk.
Anyway, F Minus from me


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## observor 69 (19 Jan 2011)

In the 1990's some people were doing a Masters with the intent to carry-on to a PhD in Strategic studies. The end of the Cold War caused many to reconsider this path, taking a MLIS seemed like one option that could lead to a "JOB."
One possible explanation for Ms.Teeple's MLIS?


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## Strike (19 Jan 2011)

Wow.  And this is available to the public?  Wow.  PA nightmare!  Guess who's going to pass this document on to some in the trade tomorrow.

If anyone has any more errors to submit let me know (and PM your name and rank w/ unit so I can back up the more personal claims) and I'll see what can be done about it.  At least make sure that a caveat is sent out to media who request the doc.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jan 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> Wow.  And this is available to the public?  Wow.  PA nightmare!  Guess who's going to pass this document on to some in the trade tomorrow.


I'm surprised someone doesn't prepare Media Lines as part of the *pre*-release SOP for these things.  You don't need them EVERY time, but the times you need them, they're like gold!

Also, I'll keep checking the DRDC link to the study to see if it's still working  ;D


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## Infanteer (19 Jan 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> If anyone has any more errors to submit let me know (and PM your name and rank w/ unit so I can back up the more personal claims) and I'll see what can be done about it.  At least make sure that a caveat is sent out to media who request the doc.



Here, I'll give you a start:

_"22 April
• IED strike against a LAV III near Gumbad kills Bombardier Myles Mansell, 5th Field
Artillery Regiment, Corporal Matthew Dinning, 2nd Military Police Platoon, Corporal Randy
Payne, CFB/ASU Wainwright Military Police Platoon, and Lieutenant William Turner,
Land Force Western Area HQ."_

A simple query of any news outlet shows that these men were in G-Wagon when they were in killed.  If you aren't going to get the details right, how can I trust the big picture stuff as being generally accurate and useful.

_2 to 10 September
• Operation Medusa800 coalition soldiers on the ground: 1 PPCLI C Coy in the South,
coming through Bazaar-e-Panjwai, with Bravo Company in the North, fighting southward.
On one flank was Task Force 31, comprised of coalition–mainly U.S.–Special Forces and
also Task Force Grizzly, an American company; with a Danish squad in position to the west
and a Dutch Company patrolling the perimeter to the North._

C Coy, 1 PPCLI, very active in the summer, was home by this point.  C Coy, 1 RCR was there, along with A Coy of 2 PPCLI.  Again, the devil is in the details.  Was any fact checking done?

_2 March
• Trooper Michael Hayakaze, Lord Strathcona’s Horse, is killed when his LAV III is struck
by an IED in Panjwaii._

Trooper Hayakaze was not in a LAV III when he was killed, he was in a tank.  Details....

_23 April
• Major Michelle Mendes, Chief of Defence Intelligence, dies in a non-combat related
incident at Kandahar Airfield._

That's quite an under-ranked CDI....

_10.8 August 2009
• Ninth Rotation (Roto 8 ), Phase II, Op Athena [August 2009-February 2010], deployment of
1st Battalion PPCLI Battle Group._

1 PPCLI and its affiliated sub-units were not in Afghanistan in August - the first elements would arrive in mid-September.  Ahh, who needs accuracy with dates for a chronology....

_15 November
• Operation HydraJoint Canadian-Afghan operation (C Coy, 1 PPCLIled by Lt.-Col.
Jerry Walsh; 2nd Kandak, 1 Brigade, 205 Corps ANAled by Lt.-Col. Sakhi Mohammed Barriz) to clear insurgents from Nakhonay and Hajji Baba villages in the Panjwaii district, in
addition to clearing the area of IEDs._

Elements from every sub-unit of the Battle Group were on Operation HYDRA, not just C Coy.

_12 February
• Corporal Joshua Baker, Loyal Edmonton Regiment, died after a training accident at a
shooting range near Kandahar.423
13 February
• Corporal Joshua Baker, Loyal Edmonton Regiment, killed in a training accident northeast of
Kandahar city.425_

Did he die twice?

Anyways, that's what I picked up from a 5 minute spin through the document.  You can also add numerous spelling mistakes, editing errors, and incorrect military terminology/abbreviations that one wouldn't expect in an internal document.  All these mistakes listed above could have been verified through open source documents; most of them news reports (that the document used incorrectly).

I wouldn't have put my signature on this paper....


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## dangerboy (19 Jan 2011)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Here, I'll give you a start:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was actually A Coy 2 PPCLI;  B Coy 2 PPCLI was part of TF 1-06.  I can attest to this as I was an acting Pl 2IC with A Coy 2 PPCLI during OP MEDUSA.


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## Infanteer (19 Jan 2011)

Yeah, I caught that and fixed it as you were commenting.  See what a little fact-checking can do!


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## Strike (19 Jan 2011)

Why do I think class tomorrow is going to be soooooo much fun!


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## Strike (19 Jan 2011)

Wait.  We accepted delivery of the Chinooks in February?  I thought it was earlier than that?  In fact I'm looking at a photo that was added to FB 29 Dec 2008 of the MND after his first ride in them, taken by the CDS's PAO.


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jan 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> Wait.  We accepted delivery of the Chinooks in February?  I thought it was earlier than that?  In fact I'm looking at a photo that was added to FB 29 Dec 2008 of the MND after his first ride in them, taken by the CDS's PAO.



If we're talking the same delivery, and if you believe the CBC:


> .... In December 2008, Canada purchased six used Chinook D-model helicopters from the U.S. army. Earlier, Canada had used the pooled the helicopter assets of NATO and the coalition partners for use in Afghanistan ....



If you believe the CF fact sheet:


> .... In *August 2008 **, the Government of Canada announced the purchase of six Chinook D-model helicopters from the U.S. Army* under a Foreign Military Sales Agreement with the Government of the United States. These Chinooks were bought to meet the immediate need for medium-to-heavy-lift helicopters as directed by the March 2008 Parliamentary motion to extend the Afghan mission to 2011. *The transfer of the helicopters, which were already located in Afghanistan, was completed on December 30, 2008. On January 8, 2009, a CH-147D Chinook made its debut flight as a Canadian aircraft* at Kandahar Airfield, where they are based ....



** - the announcement was made 7 Aug 08
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?cat=00&id=2718


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## Strike (20 Jan 2011)

I also notice errors of omission -- no mention of the SPERWER at all. I'm sure there are a few more.  Something like when units and use of assets (aircraft, tanks, etc) were declared op ready would be some essential information for a paper like this, don't you think?


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## muffin (20 Jan 2011)

How was this document made available to the public? Was it released by DGLCD/LFDTS?


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jan 2011)

I'm also surprised that when mentioning debate/discussion in the House of Commons, media footnotes are used instead of Hansard.  



			
				muffin said:
			
		

> How was this document made available to the public? Was it released by DGLCD/LFDTS?


The report itself is available via the DRDC web page - they even send RSS feed advisories of studies being released to the public.  Here's the latest list o' pubs:
http://bit.ly/hNlddN


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## muffin (20 Jan 2011)

Thanks!


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