# SHOPPING DAY



## CountDC (19 Aug 2008)

Thought of this again as I was out shopping and the store I was in had both Halloween and Christmas displays set up already.

The basis of this question is simple - everywhere I have worked so far gives either an afternoon or full day off to members for Christmas shopping. I never thought of this as a problem until 2 places I have worked recently did not give time off to members that do not celebrate Christmas.  The assumption was that because they did not celebrate Christmas they did not need the time as they had no gift giving to do.

Problems with this thinking:

just because the mbr does not celebrate Christmas does not mean they do not have friends/relatives that do and they may want to buy them gifts out of respect for thier belief.

some people that celebrate different holidays, such as Chanukah, still buy gifts for their children. Chanukah itself has 8 days and some buy a gift for each day.

Myself - I support giving it to everyone.  Mind you I also believe in sliders on Fridays.  ;D


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## aesop081 (19 Aug 2008)

I support everyone doing their shopping on their own f*****g time.


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## geo (19 Aug 2008)

time off for XMass shopping ???

C'mon, give me a break.... NO!
Stores are open  like 10 to 10 each day, six or seven days a week...
Do your shopping on your own time


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## navymich (19 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Stores are open  like 10 to 10 each day, six or seven days a week...



Even better, do it at a 24 hr Walmart.  If that doesn't fit into everyone's schedule... :


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## Snafu-Bar (19 Aug 2008)

I guess there is grounds for a new holiday to be presented to our polician's, "national christmas shopping day" complete with triple time status and complementary ham.  :


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## stryte (19 Aug 2008)

I have never worked for an organization which provided its employee's with paid time off to shop for xmas gifts. I have however worked for organizations which allowed you to request vacation leave. I would imagine any employer who knowingly allows some employees time off while not others based upon their religion is conducting unfair labour practices and/or discrimination which based upon this site's discussion surrounding Human Rights Commissions they would be all over that. 

So I am in agreement with the above posters. Minus the complementary ham. Now I hope no one is spending the afternoon on this site while at work! >


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## geo (19 Aug 2008)

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> I guess there is grounds for a new holiday to be presented to our polician's, "national christmas shopping day" complete with triple time status and complementary ham.  :



They do.... it's called "boxing day"


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## armyvern (19 Aug 2008)

I recall getting an afternoon off a couple of times in Petawawa as a "Christmas Shopping day". That wasn't the case in Halifax, PEI, Trenton or here though.

And even in Pet, we didn't get them as a "given", we got them "if" our work was completed and it didn't interfere with any tasks.

Which damn Province has 24/7 Walmarts and shopping!!?? (The same provinces that open up for business on November 11th I'd imagine.  ) Certainly not this one ... damn - there's Provinces here on the East Coast that limit Sunday shopping to a few weeks a year still ...

http://www.gov.pe.ca/news/getrelease.php3?number=5147

But Novemeber 11th ... opening on that one day a year STILL irritates the hell out of me.


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## navymich (19 Aug 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Which damn Province has 24/7 Walmarts and shopping!!?? ...



The one in North Bay changed their times to 24 hrs during December last year for Christmas, and then kept it like that.  I know I've seen others around too, just can't remember where offhand.  Makes it great for shift workers!  Our A&P and Sobeys are 24/7 too.  But none of them are open on stats though, although I recall the stores in Victoria being open every day except for XMas day.


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## geo (19 Aug 2008)

Vern...
Quebec as a rule does not shut down on 11 Nov... and we don't have 24/7 Wallmart services... matter of fact, they just got one unionized...


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## armyvern (19 Aug 2008)

airmich said:
			
		

> The one in North Bay changed their times to 24 hrs during December last year for Christmas, and then kept it like that.  I know I've seen others around too, just can't remember where offhand.  Makes it great for shift workers!  Our A&P and Sobeys are 24/7 too.  But none of them are open on stats though, although I recall the stores in Victoria being open every day except for XMas day.



I'm quite sure that November 11th is not a Stat in Ontario.   (Perhaps it has become a Stat there since I left in '03??)

Damn Feds should fix that --- right across the country.


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## armyvern (19 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Vern...
> Quebec as a rule does not shut down on 11 Nov...


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## aesop081 (19 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> they just got one unionized...



It will close in less than a year........just watch


Maybe this should move to RC board


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## navymich (19 Aug 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm quite sure that November 11th is not a Stat in Ontario.   (Perhaps it has become a Stat there since I left in '03??)
> 
> Damn Feds should fix that --- right across the country.



Nope, not a stat here.  Sorry Vern, was just talking in generalization about store openings and hadn't centered in on your comments on 11 Nov.


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## geo (19 Aug 2008)

And, before you ask.... IT IRRITATES THE HELL OUT OF ME TOO!


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## navymich (19 Aug 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Damn Feds should fix that --- right across the country.



According to this site, Remembrance Day is a stat in the federal jurisdiction, and quite a few provinces & all of the territories also show it as a stat.  Now for the last few to get onboard!


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## George Wallace (19 Aug 2008)

Ottawa City Council is arguing over a motion to pass a Bylaw that would require all businesses, other than "Corner Stores" and "Pharmacy/Drug Stores", to remain closed until 1230 hrs on Nov 11.


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## geo (19 Aug 2008)

mich... Quebec bureaucrats have Nov 11th off... the remainder of the proletariat don't....

Effing unbelievable!!!


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## EW (19 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> And, before you ask.... IT IRRITATES THE HELL OUT OF ME TOO!



Good thing you aren't in Ottawa today, or you would be mighty frustrated.  As noted by George, CBC radio has been reporting on the issue all day, and it was in the Citizen this morning.  
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/08/19/ot-remembrance-080819.html

Like Vern, I remember different units in Kingston giving a 1/2 day off for shopping.  I haven't heard of it in a few years though, and really, I think it was an excuse by some CO's/OC's to give a break to their troops around Christmas.  If that was the intention, they might want to rethink using the term 'shopping,' in today's day and age. 

To the point of the original post, if a CO is giving the time off just to those who celebrate Christmas, and not to those who don't celebrate that holiday, he/she is on a slippery slope.  If they were to complain, the CO might have to give them another day off to prepare for whichever religious holiday they observe.  Then it turns from a slippery slope into a cliff.  IMHO - lots of religions in the workplace today, lets just stick with the actual religious days of observance when it comes to time off.


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## the 48th regulator (19 Aug 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm quite sure that November 11th is not a Stat in Ontario.   (Perhaps it has become a Stat there since I left in '03??)
> 
> Damn Feds should fix that --- right across the country.




Nope,

Our Premiere appeased us Veterans by naming a Highway, then within a month designated a day in February as "Family Day"....

This has caused many businesses, including where I work, to take away the Civic Holiday in August.

I have offered this challenge, and have yet to get the answers we need...

tess' rememberance day challenge   


dileas

tess


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## BinRat55 (20 Aug 2008)

We do the "shopping day" thing here on the rock, but maybe for a different reason. As we are a semi-isolated post, a lot of people travel 300km into St. John's do do a lot of shopping for the holidays. The travel time there and back is roughly a day's drive, given the Wx conditions usually found here. No one wants to travel at night (i don't blame them, what with all the mooses...) so a Friday is usually given for a shopping day. There's not much to choose from here...

For the record though, I'm against shopping days in bigger cities. Lots of choice, and time to choose. Canada doesn't pay me to shop... well, for myself anyway...


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## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> We do the "shopping day" thing here on the rock, but maybe for a different reason. As we are a semi-isolated post, a lot of people travel 300km into St. John's do do a lot of shopping for the holidays. The travel time there and back is roughly a day's drive, given the Wx conditions usually found here. No one wants to travel at night (i don't blame them, what with all the mooses...) so a Friday is usually given for a shopping day. There's not much to choose from here...
> 
> For the record though, *I'm against shopping days in bigger cities.* Lots of choice, and time to choose.



So you advocate penalizing people for where they are posted?  Nice.  :  That's as bad as giving a shopping day only to people who celebrate the holiday.

The last time I got a "shopping" day was in Greenwood, back in '87.  

I'm quite satisfied with the short and special we get.


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> So you advocate penalizing people for where they are posted?  Nice.  :  That's as bad as giving a shopping day only to people who celebrate the holiday.
> 
> The last time I got a "shopping" day was in Greenwood, back in '87.
> 
> I'm quite satisfied with the short and special we get.



I'm thinking that his statement may just explain the origins of this "shopping day" ...

Perhaps, way back when the CF actually existed in small-town Canada and was thus visible to her population, with all her little radar stations, installations and outposts in the far reaches --- this "shopping day" was a way of ensuring that that those members that didn't happy to be so lucky as you to be posted near any inhabited area were afford the opportunity to ensure their families got gifts at Christams too (which obviously STILL has to be done by travelling some great distances for some members of the CF) - something that the rest of us take for granted as being easily accesable - and thus not necessary.

Don't be too harsh - it could very well be you in that isolated position ... and, like most, you'd more than likely appreciate the opportunity to have a slider (vice annual) if it took you two days travel time in order to effect this as a result of where the CF happened to posted you to.

There ARE exceptions to everything ... and his scenario seems pretty valid to me ... and fair.


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## geo (20 Aug 2008)

... Shopping days... COs "shorts".... 

Call it by any other name... it's still a "short"


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## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2008)

Well, I have been in the "isolated" posting (Gander '89-'91).

I agree with you, to a point.  Some people have chosen their postings and others are posted wherever they are told to go.  Yes, I happen to be in a large city, certainly not by choice (it definitely wasn't my choice to go IR either).

Before anyone says "Suck it up!", I'm not complaining (not really   ), I'm just for equal treatment of personnel.  If everyone at that "isolated" posting gets a shopping day, great!

I spent too much time on taskings where we had to work holidays and missed Bde stand downs and never got compensated for those days.  Not that I cared about *not* getting them, but everyone else in my Unit who wasn't tasked, did get them.  Fair's fair, right?


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## George Wallace (20 Aug 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> ..........  Fair's fair, right?




 ;D

Since when was "Life" fair?

 ;D


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## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> Since when was "Life" fair?
> 
> ;D



Not since I was about two years old...... :'(


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## CountDC (20 Aug 2008)

interesting comments - and I can actually see everyones point of view, which is scary.

Spent almost all my time in Halifax and everywhere I worked gave a shopping day to those that celebrated Christmas so a bit surprised to see someone say they never got it there.

Shopping days are totally up to the COC to give or not same as sliders on Fridays. I have no problem giving an afternoon to someone as I know how hard it can be to shop with kids in tow.  Kind of hard to hide things from them when they are with you.  Of course it is a reward for your staff doing a good job and having the work done so it should not be assumed that it will happen. 24 hour stores are great but if you have a bunch of young ones it's kind of hard to shop at 2 in the morning so I don't consider that a factor when deciding to reward a day.  I base rewards on performance - you work hard, put in the extra effort, get a reasonable amount of work done in a reasonable time then I have no problem giving time off. Some people say "if all the work is done" - in my experience this never happens as there is always more work coming in and there is always something you could be doing. It's more a matter of what type of work is not done and if it's something that can either wait or someone else will do for you - PA that just came in today can wait, an emergency pay advance needs to be actioned by someone. I also go with only an afternoon, give the member choice of certain days - ie you can take Tue or Wed next week - and stipulate that it is based on them having all important items taken care of.  They must give an update on thier work, including any possible problems and their solutions, prior to leaving. if I am happy then I will dismiss them.  The key is that it is a reward to be earned and not a given (as some I have worked with felt).


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## CountDC (20 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> ... Shopping days... COs "shorts"....
> 
> Call it by any other name... it's still a "short"



not always - sometimes it is a matter of the immediate supvr allowing a mbr of their staff leave early  - such as when I tell them to go home at 1300 hrs on a Friday or take Tue afternoon as a shopping day.


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## BinRat55 (20 Aug 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> So you advocate penalizing people for where they are posted?  Nice.  :  That's as bad as giving a shopping day only to people who celebrate the holiday.
> 
> The last time I got a "shopping" day was in Greenwood, back in '87.
> 
> I'm quite satisfied with the short and special we get.



No, it's not about penalizing anyone. It's not about rewarding anyone in our case, either - it's about safety and what's actually available. When I said I was against shopping days, I meant it. We call it a shopping day here in Gander, but I can call it what ever you want - sliders, buckshee, gimmees - either way, I don't want my people on the TCH in a blizzard and driving for hours on end, rushed to get in and out, all because there is SFA here to buy. Large cities don't quite have that problem.

I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had a shopping day in so long. Maybe someday if you work for me i'll give you one... or will I??  >


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Well, I have been in the "isolated" posting (Gander '89-'91).
> 
> I agree with you, to a point.  Some people have chosen their postings and others are posted wherever they are told to go.  Yes, I happen to be in a large city, certainly not by choice (it definitely wasn't my choice to go IR either).
> 
> ...



Given this previous statement in your other post ...



> So you advocate penalizing people for where they are posted?



There's always the flip-side of the coin. I took your original post as you advocating that people posted in isolated spots ... "suck it up" themselves (ie "penalizing" for being posted to isolated locations, when it would seem to be perfectly fair and acceptable to me to authorize this given the "travel" circumstances that they are currently subject to while you currently are not).

"Equal treatment" of personnel could also go this way ...

"Well, seeing as how pers in isolated spots can only shop after a 5 hour drive due to their postings, then everyone in the CF SHALL travel a minimum of 5 hours in order to shop and will now have to ignore the 24/7 WalMart located across the street from their current residence". <--- That'd make it "fair" and everyone being treated the same too wouldn't it?


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## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> When I said I was against shopping days, I meant it.



Altogether?  Your original post said you were against it in large cities.



			
				BinRat55 said:
			
		

> it's about *safety* and what's actually available.



That's different then.  I differ from you in that I would rather be on the TCH in a snowstorm that in some cities with their idiot drivers.  :



			
				BinRat55 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had a shopping day in so long. Maybe someday if you work for me i'll give you one... or will I??  >



Gee thanks!!    I don't think we'll ever be in each others chain of command though... :-\  That's okay, as I said, I'm pretty satisfied with my time off.  Just wish we could go to a four-day week now with the drive to Kingston on weekends.....



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> There's always the flip-side of the coin. I took your original post as you advocating that people posted in isolated spots ... "suck it up" themselves



Then you read me wrong.  I wasn't advocating the people in isolated postings be penalized against.  (Though, to be sure, in some cases they are financially compensated for their isolation). The "Suck it up" was in regards to my comment about being on IR.  I think the whole thing is all about sematics here.  It's short, special, sliders, buckshee, whatever you want to call it.  But giving it only to people either due to their posting *or* their religious beliefs is discrimination, IMHO.






 ;D


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## OldSolduer (20 Aug 2008)

Shop on your own time. If you have to drive to a major city, so be it. We did it for three years.


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## Michael OLeary (20 Aug 2008)

This is turning into one of those threads that seems to indicates we've run out of serious topics to discuss.

Despite what it's called (short, special, sliders, buckshee, . . . .), the elephant n the room no-one wants to discuss is this:

When a service member is "300 Km" away from their home base and get into a serous vehicle accident (picture long term hospitalization), a question is eventually going to be asked about their status.  Were they on duty, were they on leave, where's the leave pass?  At that point it gets very important that someone has an official answer to that question.


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## George Wallace (20 Aug 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Shop on your own time. If you have to drive to a major city, so be it. We did it for three years.



So?  Did you have to take Leave, or did you get "bucshee"(sp) time off?  That is what this whole topic is about.


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## George Wallace (20 Aug 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> When a service member is "300 Km" away from their home base and get into a serous vehicle accident (picture long term hospitalization), a question is eventually going to be asked about their status.  Were they on duty, were they on leave, where's the leave pass?  At that point it gets very important that someone has an official answer to that question.



In today's CF, this is very important, and the reason many units are having their pers fill out Lve Passes for weekends; especially if they are away on Crse.


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## OldSolduer (20 Aug 2008)

We shopped on weekends, on our own time. And with a leave pass for two days, weekend.


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## Rodahn (20 Aug 2008)

And in this day and age, everybody can shop from the comfort of their favourite armchair. As one member has stated "it ain't just for porn anymore"! ;D


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## BinRat55 (20 Aug 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> When a service member is "300 Km" away from their home base and get into a serous vehicle accident (picture long term hospitalization), a question is eventually going to be asked about their status.  Were they on duty, were they on leave, where's the leave pass?  At that point it gets very important that someone has an official answer to that question.



This is a very valid point - I for one have worked for Vern, and never ... NEVER want to get caught with my ass hanging in the wind... You know where the leave pass is, don't you Mike?


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## CountDC (20 Aug 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> This is turning into one of those threads that seems to indicates we've run out of serious topics to discuss.



to me this is a serious topic.


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## geo (20 Aug 2008)

If the CO feels that everyone deserves a full or half day "reward" for good work, that can be used for XMass shopping, he can give a "short".


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> This is a very valid point - I for one have worked for Vern, and never ... NEVER want to get caught with my ass hanging in the wind... You know where the leave pass is, don't you Mike?



Yes, you did work for me ...

and I probably still have copies of those _CYA passes_ hanging about for weekend leaves etc. 

And, to this day - I insist that ALL my supervisory staff have same from their subordinates ... gawd forbid something happen to one of my pers while travelling (or other) ... even if just for the weekend.


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> If the CO feels that everyone deserves a full or half day "reward" for good work, that can be used for XMass shopping, he can give a "short".



Interesting concept Geo (now I'm going to get you on a 'technicality'!!  >) ...

Given that:

COs _may_ grant *up to 2 days * per month short leave.

So, if your Christmas period leave pass includes 6 annual, 3 stat, 8 weekend, 2 special, and *4 short * (as most Units do [less the Scrooge's already noted in this thread ...  ]) ... so that you can have the Christmas/New Year's leave period off (3 weeks) ...

Just how is that CO giving you a short to go "shopping" in December? You've already got a leave pass for the 2 short for Dec (above) & 2 short for Jan (above).

Hmmmm....

They call it a slider, have you sign a leave pass ... and slip it under their desk blotter should anything happen to your butt that day. If so, they then fill it in for annual ... and send it up to the OR.

Is this actually not more like the actuality of the situation ... ??  Fess up already ... I've got 20 years in!  

Let's face the facts full on:

Questions:

1)  How many supervisors on this forum have NEVER asked their personnel to "fill in a leave pass and sign it, leaving the dates blank so that I can submit it up the CoC if something happens to you. I'll keep it on your file in my office." ??

And,

2)  How many personnel on this forum have NEVER been asked to do the above by one of their supervisors?

I'm willing to place a round of beers for the house on the fact that the practice outlined (yellowed font) in question 1 is actually the _common_ practise ... and not the exception.


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## CountDC (20 Aug 2008)

I have done both in the past (yesterday is the past right?) >


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

CountDC said:
			
		

> I have done both in the past (yesterday is the past right?) >



Exactly.


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## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2008)

The CO should give a short day in November.  Don't leave the holiday shopping until the last minute!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    ;D


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## MARS (20 Aug 2008)

I agree with Vern re: common practices about blank leave passes.  However, I see nothing wrong with that.  E.R Campbell told me the following, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away:

Manager do things right; Leaders do the *right thing*.  

The two are sometimes mutually exclusive, in my opinion.  Sometimes it feels like I have too many "managers" working for me and not enough “leaders”.  Don't get me wrong, my staff, through doing things "right" have kept me out of jail on multiple occasions, particularly on PF/NPF/COMSEC and CSD matters, but as I rose in rank, I began to realize that sometimes you need to deviate from the regulations to ensure your people are not seen off.  I am certainly NOT suggesting that we burn the rule books - most of them are darn good rules, but occasionally, very occasionally, some wiggle room needs to be found.  Would I expect my NCOs to do this kind of thing on their own?  Not necessarily - I wouldn't put them in that kind of position - it (wilfully deviating from established regulations) is a responsibility that I, as 2nd in Command, accept fully and on my own, as are the subsequent repercussions should something go pear shaped.  If that makes me a poor leader, so be it.


My 2 cents

MARS


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## pfl (20 Aug 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I support everyone doing their shopping on their own f*****g time.


+1


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

MARS said:
			
		

> I agree with Vern re: common practices about blank leave passes.  However, I see nothing wrong with that.  E.R Campbell told me the following, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away:
> 
> Manager do things right; Leaders do the *right thing*.
> 
> ...



And, I wholeheartedly agree.

I have my supervisors retain a signed leave pass for each of their pers within the members file - should, as I said, the worst happen to occur. I'm quite sure that most of us have in our lives ... ended up doing some unplanned travel on weekends for any myriad of reasons. It could be as simple as ... 

it was pouring rain out in Oromocto all weekend during the kids summer vacation, so on Saturday we decided "nuts to this" and packed up the kids for a day trip to Magic Mountain up the trans-Canada. Or, say from Kingston, a trip to the Toronto Zoo.

I know that while I was in Pet, I certainly had the odd weekends where we'd end up travelling unplanned down Hwy 17 to Ottawa to shop, sometimes further (ie Montreal). It was nice to know that my supervisor had a CYA leave pass in my file should anything occur.

In my 20 years of service, I don't recall any of my supervisors not doing the same. It is something that I also practise ... it is done in an effort to ensure my soldiers and subordinates are looked after should they find themselves in like circumstances; it is not done with the intention of abusing any leave system or regulation. 

These leave passes will not be filled out and handed in, for example, should Bloggins decide not to show for work one morning to cover his butt ... he is - quite simply - AWOA. Nor are they viewed as a CYA to allow the troops to screw off from work on Friday afternoons with the intention of "filing them if we get caught/queried". That's abuse. That's not me.


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## geo (20 Aug 2008)

Vern.. not a problem with your technicality.
As Pmedmoe proposed... DS solution to that quandary is for the CO to hand out a short, if so deserved to personnel in November... thus leaving those 2+2shorts for Dec/Jan XMass block leave


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## armyvern (20 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Vern.. not a problem with your technicality.
> As Pmedmoe proposed... DS solution to that quandary is for the CO to hand out a short, if so deserved to personnel in November... thus leaving those 2+2shorts for Dec/Jan XMass block leave



It wouldn't work. It's not fair to the females of the CF. We'd actually use that day short in November to Christmas shop; the boys would STILL be rushing about on Christmas Eve doing last minute shopping ... having utilized their own November short day as an excuse to gather somewhere and drink beer/play hockey/drink more beer ...  >


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## BinRat55 (21 Aug 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> ... the boys would STILL be rushing about on Christmas Eve doing last minute shopping ... having utilized their own November short day as an excuse to gather somewhere and drink beer/play hockey/drink more beer ...  >



You only know this 'cause you did it WITH us...  ;D


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## geo (21 Aug 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> the boys would STILL be rushing about on Christmas Eve doing last minute shopping ... having utilized their own November short day as an excuse to gather somewhere and drink beer/play hockey/drink more beer ...  >



But vern... Beer was the 1st XMass gift that the boys would buy.
Then, just to be certain, they would have to do a "quality control" test.... would want 9D to be drinking bad beer at XMass - would you?


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## armyvern (21 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> But vern... Beer was the 1st XMass gift that the boys would buy.
> Then, just to be certain, they would have to do a "quality control" test.... would want 9D to be drinking bad beer at XMass - would you?



Exactly why you should buy me tequila instead.


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## geo (21 Aug 2008)

OK... I can quality control that for you ;D

(is that with or without the worm ?)


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## armyvern (21 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> OK... I can quality control that for you ;D
> 
> (is that with or without the worm ?)



Most defintely 'with'.

No worries, NFLD Sapper is taking me out to Griffens Friday night, so perhaps you can delegate that quality control task down to him and _really_ get a head start on your Christmas shopping ...  8)


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## geo (21 Aug 2008)

Vern... I love the way you think 8)
Just a darned shame that you are in Gagetown & I'm in Montreal

Oh well..... :cheers:


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## armyvern (21 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Vern... I love the way you think 8)
> Just a darned shame that you are in Gagetown & I'm in Montreal
> 
> Oh well..... :cheers:



You may be S-O-O-L ... Nflad Sapper is standing in my office right now (after bringing me an XL Black Timmies - I think I'm in love) ...

He says "you snooze, you lose".  >


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## geo (21 Aug 2008)

Nfld Sapper - you dog!


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Aug 2008)

hehe...... woof woof  ;D


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