# aircraft technician



## mamah_187 (16 Mar 2004)

Sup,

  I know there are numerous jobs that deal with CF-18‘s within our military.  Does anyone know which positions actually get rides inside of them?

  Basically, I want to know who else flys in these jets other than the pilots.

  And thats the career I want to go after.... :evil:  

Peace,
-Dan


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## Zoomie (16 Mar 2004)

The only trade that will guarantee you a ride in a CF-188B (two seater F-18) is Pilot.  Any other trade has a chance, but based on good luck and availability.  If you are interested in maintaining the Hornets, then I suggest you look into the AVN Tech trade.  Again, it will take luck in being posted to the Hornet squadron, if that‘s what you want to do.
I‘ve been a pilot in the CF for going on 5 years now and I have never strapped myself into an F-18, albeit the desire just isn‘t there.

So my advice to you - go to your local CFRC and enquire about the AVN Tech MOC.  Good luck.


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## mamah_187 (16 Mar 2004)

Thanks....I found 4 different ones....which one of these is it?

Aerospace Telecommunications and Information Systems Technician 

Aircraft Structures Technician  

Aviation Systems Technician 

Avionics Systems Technician

Thanks,
-Dan


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## Zoomie (17 Mar 2004)

Structures and Systems are the place to be if you want to work on the planes.

The first one (ATIS tech) is more like IT work (ie computer networking, etc).


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## mamah_187 (17 Mar 2004)

Thanks alot....

So the bottom 3 are the ones i want?

I‘m telling you, all I want is the profession that will MOST likely get a ride in one of these things.

Are they all that closely related?

Peace,
-Dan


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## Zoomie (18 Mar 2004)

IF you are selected for one of the 3 chosen MOC to which you are inferring, AND you are posted to either Cold Lake or Bagotville - THEN you may have a pretty good chance at getting a ride.  No promises...


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## mamah_187 (19 Mar 2004)

Thanks alot man....

By the way, what are you flying?

Is there anyway I could increase my chances of being accepted to a fighter squadron? More so, in Cold Lake? (I live in Edmonton, and I want to stay in province)

Thanks,
-Dan


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## mamah_187 (26 Mar 2004)

?


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## Spr.Earl (29 Mar 2004)

Dan_282 you know how tell a F.18 pilot?


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## mamah_187 (29 Mar 2004)

what?


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## Spr.Earl (30 Mar 2004)

You don‘t,they come and tell you.


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## mamah_187 (30 Mar 2004)

lol, was that a joke?

poor punch line....


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Mar 2004)

Dan,
Can‘t say about now, but they used to sit the course in the room by final course standings. The postings were on the board and the top student had his pick. Once he picked, it came off the board. So it went, through 2nd, 3rd place etc, til the last place student got the posting that was left.
Morale: Top your course and you‘ll probably get to pick where you go.


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## mamah_187 (30 Mar 2004)

Are you a technician? how do you know this?

This happens at the end of your QL3‘s?

Thanks,
-Dan


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Mar 2004)

I remustered to MOC 531 Safety Systems (no longer a trade) in ‘79. That‘s how they did it at the end of my 3‘s in Borden.


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## Ex-Zipperhead (18 Nov 2004)

LOL, they have gone away from that now, I went AVS in 96 and got my choice of Greenwood, I think it depends on what everyone else  on your course is asking for, they do try to accommodate you but if ever one wants the same posting you really could go anywhere.

AVS is a good trade if your good at math and electronic ( we get paid for what we know not what we do)
AVN is a good job if you hate math and electronics (wash there hands before they piss)
ACS is a good trade if you enjoy welding painting and bashing metal

All three trade work on the A/C and may get a chance to fly on the F/18 just depends what they think on if the pilots like you and if you are good at your job. 

NO ONE RIDES FOR FREE


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## childs56 (18 Nov 2004)

Go Avn Tech and then ask to go to Cold Lake.  You will get to go in the back seat of an F18 sooner or later. Especially if you are a good tech.


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## aesop081 (18 Nov 2004)

If you are basing your MOC choices on the possibility of getting a ride on an F-18, you may have a lond and dissapointing career !  Go AVN, do 6 years and remuster to Flight engineer ( you get to fly on CP-140, CC-130, CH-146 and CH-149) or remuster to AESOp ( my MOC) and you get to fly on CH-124 sea kings , CP-140's and soon, CH-148 Cyclone.

Anyways, good luck, whatever you do


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## mony (18 Nov 2004)

LOL I have a comment/question

 In my interview for Aerospace engineering, the last question they asked me is: " Do U think u well get any flight time as an AERE?" ??? it seemed to me like a trick question. Till this point I am intrigued what the "right answer" for that question was. Can anyone help me out?  ;D


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## Ex-Zipperhead (18 Nov 2004)

Only time i've seen AERE fly is to go on TD, they don't go flying like Tech's do the odd time to trouble shoot, come to think of it they don't step foot on the A/C much at all.


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## Zoomie (19 Nov 2004)

mony said:
			
		

> In my interview for Aerospace engineering, the last question they asked me is: " Do U think u well get any flight time as an AERE?" ???



Seems like a stupid question on your recruiter's part.  My response would be "I really have no idea, what do you think?"  Most likely he/she have no clue as to what an AERE does.  

The answer to your question would be - hardly ever do AERE's fly and only as passengers in the back.  The only pers in the CF that can attain "flight time" are qualified crew members (ie. Pilots/Nav/AESOP/FE/LM/ST) - AERE are not members of any crew in any operational squadron in the CF.


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## mony (19 Nov 2004)

LOL, that is exactelly what I replied bluntly " I have no clue, do they?". I do know that sometimes civilian  AERE engineers  conduct test flights with the air personal. the way she asked me, it felt she was telling me "if U think U will have flight time or free joy rides U are wrong!" even though she did answer my question.


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## Gunnerlove (19 Nov 2004)

So the question should have been worded "I want to mooch rides in jets, what is the best way to do this?"


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## CougarKing (6 Jul 2006)

I'm just curious, is it common for AVN, AVS or ACS Techs who, after impeccable careers as NCMs, then later choose to go the officer route to become pilot officers? I know it also depends on the type of plane they are working on, but anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## George Wallace (6 Jul 2006)

CougarKing said:
			
		

> I'm just curious, is it common for AVN, AVS or ACS Techs who, after impeccable careers as NCMs, then later choose to go the officer route to become pilot officers? I know it also depends on the type of plane they are working on, but anyone have any thoughts on this?



Why would it be any different for them than say an Armoured Crewman?  There are a couple of pilots I know who were once Crewmen, so why would any Trade not have the same opportunities?


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## aesop081 (6 Jul 2006)

CougarKing said:
			
		

> I know it also depends on the type of plane they are working on, but anyone have any thoughts on this?



You "know" ?

What would that have to do with anything ?


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## CougarKing (7 Jul 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> There are a couple of pilots I know who were once Crewmen, so why would any Trade not have the same opportunities?



I was just asking if someone who trained to be AVN Tech and who spent the most time with a particular type, say an F-18 or a Griffon, would have a much  better chance of getting a pilot slot for either of those types (provided they did alright in officer training) than a pilot candidate who never spent any time as an NCM.


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## cp140tech (7 Jul 2006)

I'm an AVN tech in Greenwood, I perform first line engine work on the CP-140/A.  I don't have the first clue about what goes on in the aircraft cabin while it's flying, and for the most part I don't care.  You'll probably find that the operator and maintenance worlds cross paths much less than you'd expect, depending on the fleet and whether you're at home or deployed.  I only know of one pilot who used to be a tech, I believe she was airframe back when that was a trade, I'm not sure what aircraft she worked on.  The road from turning wrenches to driving aircraft is a long one and I doubt that any service experience you carried from an earlier trade would be considered.  I have no idea how they assign aircraft types to pilots, so I can't really say how much weight your preferences are given for postings.

   good luck


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## childs56 (7 Jul 2006)

We have a few techs up here in Cold Lake whom have a few hours in the back seat of the 18. Most of them were at the right spot at the right time, and or a jet broke down some place and they flew them there for a quick fix. You cannot guarantee for sure that you would ever get a ride, but if you ask enough and show an interst, you might get a ride or two. 
As for coming to Cold Lake, go on your course AVN or AVS an ask for Cold Lake. A 99.9% chance you will come here.


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## krustyrl (11 Jul 2006)

cp140tech I know a former ncm turned pilot, are you referring to M-Kelly.?


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## krustyrl (11 Jul 2006)

hey...another SST on here......Glad to meet you. I was on my 3's in early 87.


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## cp140tech (12 Jul 2006)

krustyrl said:
			
		

> cp140tech I know a former ncm turned pilot, are you referring to M-Kelly.?



    That would be the one, I don't know her personally.....  just by reputation.  Not certain about her NCM trade, that was a half guess.


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## .68 (21 Jul 2006)

Hey man

Im on my AVS 3's in borden now and ive heard is still similar, just the top in the class gets the posting preferences.

also for your info man, the AVN AVS trades just went through a new training plan that made them "better" and much longer

avs is at 6 months in kingston then 12-18 or so months in borden

avn is same 12-18 months here in borden.

as far as "free rides" i do believe your chances are pretty good, i have heard that after servicing is done on the a/c a test flight has to be done.  its possible that they take a tech on now and again

mabey for a "guarantee of work" LOL

so they will be goin up now and again. best of luck .

the airforce is good times,  if u choose to join, i doubt that you will be disapointed.

cheers


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## Rusty_Poth (20 Sep 2007)

If Ralph Klien can go up in one there is no doubting that you can too!!!

Having worked on or around CF-18's for 18 years it has become a whole easier to get a flight in one, I had numerous chances but I prefered to work on them, it used to be that you needed your "High Altitude Indoctrination, or HAI for short" as they wanted to teach you the signs and effects of Hypoxia so they would (in the case of those in Cold Lake) ship you to the high altitude chamber in Edmonton, after a day or so of training you would get the HAI qual and a card stating that you were qual'ed and when you wanted to go for a flip you would have to produce the card and show the pilot, sorta kinda like producing your ID for a beer purchase LOL. But now they have dropped the whole HAI thingy and you get a quicky breifing on Hypoxia and how the G-suit and ejection seat (which I had overhauled the major components on btw) work.

It has nothing to do with beeing a good top tech! It is mostly in whom you know etc etc.........


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## CallOfDuty (21 Sep 2007)

Can anyone tell me how often they run the AVN course in Borden?  
Cheers


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## dan_282 (22 Sep 2007)

Rusty could you please clarify how its all set up in Cold Lake, 

reading your previous units in your profile u mentioned 416 tfs, and 1ams..

are there some techs at each of the fighter squadrons, and 1 ams, or do they all work at 1 ams only?

also, what type of work typically did u see each branch of tech doing? (being 3 in total i believe)

thanks man


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## Rusty_Poth (22 Sep 2007)

dan_282 said:
			
		

> Rusty could you please clarify how its all set up in Cold Lake,
> 
> reading your previous units in your profile u mentioned 416 tfs, and 1ams..
> 
> ...



The techs in the front line uints (in my case that was 416, they just amalgamated 416 and 441 which has caused quite a stir from what I hear!!!) work mainly with the Aircraft,  anything that for the most part would take less then a day to fix (that is being quite liberal BTW, I had Snr NCM's that would ask if it would take longer then 3 hours to fix the engine problem, if it did replace the engine) is done by the techs in the First Line sections, they change the engines "black boxes" etc, they perform basic Servicing duties on the Aircraft like fueling pre-flight/post-flight inspections, also when I was there they would carry out Periodic Inspections that would take on average of 21 days to do.

But as I said they have made up a new squadron (439) due mostly to the budget cutbacks and the fact that a lot of us old warhorses retired they decided to pool thier resources and create a bigger squadron of technicians, but I have heard there is a bit of headbutting going on as the squadron is made up of two very distinct squadron philosophies.

1 AMS (which I was posted to for 13 years) is mainly for second and third line manitenence duties, like overhauling the main components of the aircraft systems, and repairing of the components that would take longer then a day or so.


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## Inch (22 Sep 2007)

Rusty_Poth said:
			
		

> But as I said they have made up a new squadron (439) due mostly to the budget cutbacks and the fact that a lot of us old warhorses retired they decided to pool thier resources and create a bigger squadron of technicians, but I have heard there is a bit of headbutting going on as the squadron is made up of two very distinct squadron philosophies.



You mean 409, 439 is a Griffon Combat Support Sqn in Bagotville.


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## belka (22 Sep 2007)

dan_282 said:
			
		

> Rusty could you please clarify how its all set up in Cold Lake,
> 
> reading your previous units in your profile u mentioned 416 tfs, and 1ams..
> 
> ...



Just to add to what rusty said, there is now only 1 Tactical Fighter Squadron in Cold Lake, 409, which was amalgamated from 416 and 441. The other CF-18 sqn is 410, but this is only an Operational Training Squadron, basically, where the pilots complete their training on the CF-18. There are techs in both squadrons that handle first line maintenance and basic servicing. 1 AMS, which is second line, is comprised of techs, mostly experienced cpl's and above, from both Squadrons. Within 1 AMS there is second line where the jet is stripped for its periodic inspections, tank bay where major fuel snags are taken care of, engine bay where engines are completely overhauled and paint bay. A new pte or cpl will most likely go into one of the squadrons to gain experience and then transfered into 1 AMS and its subsections, if they are lucky enough.  

AVN's are now divided into 4 systems. Armament -  they load the aircraft with bombs, rockets, flares, external fuel tanks and basically maintain the aircrafts weaponry systems. Airframe - they handle flight controls, hydraulics and landing gear (these guys are usually the busiest due to the age of the airframe). Engine - they maintain the engines, apu, fuel systems and environment control systems. ALSE - they are responsible for the life support systems such as the ejection seat and its systems, the pilot suits and oxygen system. If you are a new AVN tech at the sqn, you will be dropped into one of the four systems.

AVS's handle the radar, instruments and the rest of the electronic systems on the aircraft. They also help with the flight controls because this is a flyby wire aircraft.

ACS - they do everything related to the structure of the aircraft such as painting, refinishing, etc.


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## pteosborne (28 Sep 2007)

Any idea why they combined all the AF trades into AVN techs, train you on all aspects for 16 months
only to put you into a specific area anyway? 
IE: I got to Greenwood and I'm not really an AVN but more specifically I'm a prop tech.
Wouldnt it save training time to designate positions in Borden (CFSATE) and train accordingly? ???


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## belka (28 Sep 2007)

pteosborne said:
			
		

> Any idea why they combined all the AF trades into AVN techs, train you on all aspects for 16 months
> only to put you into a specific area anyway?
> IE: I got to Greenwood and I'm not really an AVN but more specifically I'm a prop tech.
> Wouldnt it save training time to designate positions in Borden (CFSATE) and train accordingly? ???



This is the government, the words Cost Effective isn't in their vocabulary.

I would rather recieve a general overview on all trades, then focus on a specific area.


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## pteosborne (28 Sep 2007)

Looking back it wasn't a waste of time learning it all, your right.  But 8 months into the course and only halfway done
I wouldnt have said that.


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## belka (28 Sep 2007)

Well, it's not longer than any college course.


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## Rusty_Poth (28 Sep 2007)

It was all about amalgamation, jack off all trades master of none, instead of a pool of 8 techs you could utilize 28 techs.

BTW good post ninja, well said.



			
				pteosborne said:
			
		

> Any idea why they combined all the AF trades into AVN techs, train you on all aspects for 16 months
> only to put you into a specific area anyway?
> IE: I got to Greenwood and I'm not really an AVN but more specifically I'm a prop tech.
> Wouldnt it save training time to designate positions in Borden (CFSATE) and train accordingly? ???


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## pteosborne (29 Sep 2007)

Pays better than a college course too!  ;D


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