# Commercial Pilot Licence ( CPL )



## slowstrummer (3 Oct 2010)

I am studying for my commercial pilots license here in Montreal.  I am curious ... (not that I want to become a pilot in the Air Force), but upon completion of the schooling and obtention of the commercial license, will the DND recognise or accord an officer ranking if I join the CAF?

Thanks!

Stacy


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## Good2Golf (3 Oct 2010)

A CPL would have no effect on joining the CF whatsoever, if you were not joining as a pilot.


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## rnkelly (3 Oct 2010)

So many problems with your question but I'm gonna go easy on you.

You have to go through the whole application/recruiting process to be accepted into the Canadian Forces as an Officer or NCM for that matter.  To be commissioned as an officer in the CF you are supposed to have a degree (any) and finish basic training and voila you are an officer!  To be an operationally trained officer is a different story though, it will take a few years after the recruiting center.  As far as a Commercial Pilots license- it would count on your application as something that makes you more attractive if your applying for a position that it applies...say Pilot.  It would be comparable to say being in Air Cadets or being a Captain of your little league baseball team.  The hours that you acquired in the civilian world may or may not help you in the CAF as has been discussed on this forum ad nauseum.  However some commercial licenses from recognized schools will help you skip one of the pilot training phases which is nice.


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## slowstrummer (4 Oct 2010)

The reason I say that I could not join as a pilot is because I am too old according to the Recruiting centre.  They told me to choose something else, that an application to become a pilot would be turned down most likely.  Hell I would love to be a pilot, but they are after the younger lads.  

Thanks

Stacy


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## 2010newbie (4 Oct 2010)

Is "most likely" a definite answer? It is a difficult trade to get into (just like numerous other CF trades), but if you are dissuaded by a "most likely" then you probably shouldn't apply; there are many other applicants that will do whatever is necessary to ensure they are the best candidate for the position and they probably will end up with those positions. Age is only a limiting factor if you are old enough that you would not be able to finish your obligatory service prior to the retirement age. How old are you?


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## trampbike (4 Oct 2010)

Agree with 2010newbie. Give it a try if it's really what you want to do. I was told by a recruiter 2 years ago that ROTP-Pilot was closed for the next years. I never thought about making sure he was not wrong (he was...), so it's only recently that I decided to apply, and I'm into the recruiting process right now.


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## slowstrummer (4 Oct 2010)

Thanks ... you are right, I like your attitude.  I am 47 and perfectly fit, I know I will pass basic no problem.  I talked to two different recruiters and got two different answers.  I will go in and ask again.  Thanks!

Stacy


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## 2010newbie (4 Oct 2010)

Do you have a degree already? What route were you trying to apply under? It is feasible that you might be "too old" if you do not have a degree currently. With a mandatory retirement age of 60, you would have to complete you obligatory service before that point. If you need to get a degree also (apply under ROTP for instance), you would need to put in 4 years for schooling, 3 years (maybe less, maybe more) before you get your wings, and then a 7 year term after that. That's 14 years total.

If you were applying DEO and/or CEOTP then the timeline would be less.

Apply and put Pilot as your first choice (if that's what you want) and other trades second and third. Worst thing that can happen is that it gets rejected.....

Good Luck.


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## slowstrummer (5 Oct 2010)

I do not have a degree.  I was thinking of starting University, at least a year and then ask for PIlot.  One Recruiting centre officer suggested this route.

S.


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## MAJONES (5 Oct 2010)

slowstrummer said:
			
		

> Thanks ... you are right, I like your attitude.  I am 47 and perfectly fit, I know I will pass basic no problem.  I talked to two different recruiters and got two different answers.  I will go in and ask again.  Thanks!
> 
> Stacy


I am a pilot and I worked in recruiting during OJT.  The only age restriction that applies to an applicant is the ability to finish a variable initial engagement (VIE) before they reach compulsory retirement age which is currently 60 (I believe).  The length of the VIE depends on the program you join under.  If you are DEO it used to be 9 years, if ROTP/CEOTP it is 13 years.  DEO is for people that already have a degree, ROTP/CEOTP are for people without a degree.  Given your age my advice to you would be to enroll in a University program ASAP.  Try and find a 3 year program that will give you some credit for life experience.  Once you are in University apply for the ROTP program.  If you are accepted into the ROTP program your books and tuition will be paid for.  The amount of service you owe upon graduation depends on how long you were subsidized at school, but runs to a maximum of 13 years.  

CEOTP is theoretically an option for you, but I'm not sure its open right now.  When it was open most of the guys that got in under it either had extensive flying backgrounds or extensive cadet/reserve experience.

I would ditch the CPL as far as using it to get into the CF.

Another option is to look at being an ACSO (Air Combat System Officer).  They used to be called navigatiors.  They run the mission equipment in the back of the aircraft.    Last I heard we are short on them so that program might be open to CEOTP.  Another option is AESOP (Airborne Sensor Operator).  They also operate sensors in the back, and are NCMs.  The NCMs don't need a degree and have a shorter VIE, so getting in as an AESOP would eliminate the time/CRA crunch that seems to be your main obstacle right now. 

Long story short, you may be able to pull off pilot, but it will be tight.


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## Zoomie (5 Oct 2010)

MAJONES said:
			
		

> The amount of service you owe upon graduation depends on how long you were subsidized at school, but runs to a maximum of 13 years.



The VIE is not all-inclusive.  If your restricted release timeframe is longer than what is left on your VIE, you are staying for the duration.  You still owe 7 years after Wings for the Pilot MOSID - this could be longer than what is left on your VIE.

47 without a degree might be a bit old - but not impossible.  Do some more research before discounting your future.


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## slowstrummer (5 Oct 2010)

I am learning more here than at the recruiter's desk!  I am very happy to have found this site!  Damn!

Thanks!

Stacy


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## MAJONES (6 Oct 2010)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> The VIE is not all-inclusive.  If your restricted release timeframe is longer than what is left on your VIE, you are staying for the duration.



Forgot that part, good catch.


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## Downhiller229 (16 Oct 2013)

Hello, I just want to clarify something regarding pilot applicants who are holding a current CPL. Other than the phase 1 bypass is there any advantage to being designated semi skilled? Monetary or otherwise? 

A friend of mine (as well as myself) are in a funny position albeit for different reasons where we are able to either come in semi skilled with a CPL or like everyone else with Phase 1 and all. Just trying to decide if it's worth the investment. The recruiters seem be saying that the current "semi-skilled" designation is new and other than the bypass they are not sure what the enrollment conditions are. 

Should anyone be privy to some further information and able to share it I would greatly appreciate. 

Thank you.


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## Goose15 (18 Oct 2013)

Seems the only difference for you would be bypassing Phase I.



> The Board sought additional information regarding the definition of skilled and semi-skilled pilot applicants and was informed by 2 Canadian Air Division Headquarters that, although no formal reference exists, the established practice is that the applicant is considered skilled if he or she is a qualified pilot from the air force of an allied nation or a former CF pilot. Given that the grievor was neither a qualified pilot from an allied nation nor a former CF pilot, the Board could not find that he should be considered as skilled. However, the Board noted that a Prior Learning Assessment and Recognition, conducted on behalf of the grievor, had determined that he could be granted a bypass for Phase I training. Based on this bypass of Phase I, the Board found that the grievor should be considered as semi-skilled.



(http://www.cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/cs-sc/2012-107-eng.html)


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## Downhiller229 (18 Oct 2013)

I appreciate the answer, thank you!


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## Goose15 (19 Oct 2013)

Downhiller229 said:
			
		

> I appreciate the answer, thank you!



Good luck!  :cheers:


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## Speedalive (5 Sep 2018)

Has anybody joined the CF after completing commercial flight training in the civilian world? I've tried the search function, but I could only find articles about people retiring from the CF to go fly in the civilian world, but I want to do the opposite. 

I'm just about to be finished all of my flight training at a flying college. I have a commercial license already and I'm just about to begin the multi-IFR rating; diploma completion in April next year. I've been getting mostly A's in class with a 3.75 GPA so going to Jazz right after graduation is a real possibility, but I don't think I want to rush into the airline world anymore. A number of my friends have gone straight to the airlines after graduation, but after about a year, I get the impression that the novelty has worn out for them and that they're bored out of their minds. The thought of that puts me off (also being paid 25k after tax and having to live in Vancouver or Toronto and somehow being able to afford rent and food). I really want to do some fun/interesting/challenging flying before I settle down and become a flying computer programmer.

With that said, I figured I'd give the military a shot and I applied for the CEOTP entry stream. I will be writing the CFAT soon and hopefully continuing beyond that in the selection process. Flying search and rescue missions, tactical approaches in a CC-177, flying the Polaris around the world, or searching for submarines in the Aurora sounds a heck of a lot more interesting (and demanding) than flying to Fort Mac multiple times a day in a Dash-8. Flying the heli's would be really neat too. One of my instructors used to fly Chinooks and his stories are quite inspiring. The fact that the job could make a real difference in other people's lives is an added bonus and it would be an honour to serve for our country. The military lifestyle appeals to me too. I did get a microscopic taste of it in my teenage years while in the air cadets and talking to some vets like my instructor and researching this forum has given me a better idea of what to expect.

It would kind of suck having to do four more years of school for the degree and having to do flight training all over again to obtain wings, but at least I'd be paid for it rather than the other way around and the rewards are definitely worth it. 

I'm curious though. Would I have any advantages (or disadvantages) during the application/training process if I already have civilian licenses? It seems that not too many people follow the path that I'm hoping to follow, for understandable reasons, so I don't know what I can expect. Also, assuming I can learn just as fast as an 18 year old fresh out of high school, am I at any disadvantage applying at 22 years old? Lastly, does Seneca offer transfer equivalencies, or does one have to take every class?

I appreciate any feedback. Also if this has been covered before, I'm sorry. Perhaps I wasn't searching the right key words.

All the best.


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## mariomike (5 Sep 2018)

See also,

Question about semi skilled designation for Pilots  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/112504.0
OP: "I just want to clarify something regarding pilot applicants who are holding a current CPL."

Commercial Pilot Licence ( CPL ) is also discussed in,

The "So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12744.625
56 pages.



			
				Speedalive said:
			
		

> I figured I'd give the military a shot and I applied for the CEOTP entry stream.



In case you have not already seen it, you may find this discussion of interest,

Seneca College Pilot Program ( CEOTP ) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13080.525
23 pages.

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


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## Speedalive (5 Sep 2018)

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction Mario!


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## mariomike (5 Sep 2018)

Speedalive said:
			
		

> Thank you for pointing me in the right direction Mario!



You are welcome. Good luck.


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## Speedalive (5 Sep 2018)

Im sorry to dig up an old thread, but if you have a CPL, do you have to skip BFT? What if they cover things that I didn’t do in the civvie world like aerobatics? I wouldn’t want to be at a disadvantage going forward just because I had some prior flying experience.


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## Roger123 (5 Sep 2018)

During ACS we were briefed during a break that CPLs no longer get a by-pass in phase 1. I believe it came down to a case by case situation or they scrapped the by-pass altogether. In any case, I believe it would be beneficial to get a taste of the military way of flight instruction even if all bases were covered in your CPL.


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## Downhiller229 (5 Sep 2018)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> During ACS we were briefed during a break that CPLs no longer get a by-pass in phase 1. I believe it came down to a case by case situation or they scrapped the by-pass altogether. In any case, I believe it would be beneficial to get a taste of the military way of flight instruction even if all bases were covered in your CPL.



I skipped Ph1 and was not at any disadvantage. It’s too bad the bypass is no longer granted. Someone with experience would want to gouge their eyes out at portage


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## Posthumane (6 Sep 2018)

The Phase 1 bypass can still be granted to someone who holds a CPL, but it's not automatic. It's determined on a case by case basis, and I believe it's based in part on the recency of your flying experience. A friend of mine just got the bypass, whereas someone else I know who had a CPL/MIFR did not get the bypass as he had not flown in a couple years.


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## mariomike (6 Sep 2018)

For reference to the discussion, previous flying experience is also discussed here,

Bad habits developed by civilian pilots  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/103528.0
2 pages.

Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.


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## Wild Wing Fin (10 Sep 2018)

Speedalive said:
			
		

> I've been getting mostly A's in class with a 3.75 GPA so going to Jazz right after graduation is a real possibility, but I don't think I want to rush into the airline world anymore. A number of my friends have gone straight to the airlines after graduation, but after about a year, I get the impression that the novelty has worn out for them and that they're bored out of their minds. The thought of that puts me off (also being paid 25k after tax and having to live in Vancouver or Toronto and somehow being able to afford rent and food).



I can only speak from my experience. But I flew for a regional and there were plus and minus'. If you already know you don't want to make ramen $ flying jets, the military is probably the better route. Your friends are right the novelty goes away after a while. It went away after a few months for me. living in a rollaboard, eating fastfood and dealing with the low pay were just some of the glaring negatives. I'd say join the military, your young enough that you could still go the airlines if the military thing doesn't work out. The regionals will always be looking for bodies. I have zero mil experience, but I'm sure it isn't as bad as working for a regional. Nothing is!


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