# LFAA hires civilian Facebook/Twitter expert



## kratz (26 Nov 2012)

With all the cut backs, it would have been interesting to read how much this contract will be for her to work from home.
Erin Berube  is a Facebook and Twitter expert? with no military experience.

link CBC.ca




> East coast army hires Twitter, Facebook expert
> Civilian will manage Land Force Atlantic's online accounts
> 
> CBC News
> ...



more at link

The article goes on to list the three accounts she will be managing:



> Erin Berube of Simple Social Media will work from home and manage three social media sites:
> 
> @LFAA_Comd (Twitter)
> 
> ...


----------



## The Bread Guy (26 Nov 2012)

Makes one wonder what else a Major P Aff O is up to that they can't keep up a Twitter feed and a couple of Facebook pages.  Not meant as a smart-a** comment, just wondering what else is in a media officer's in basket to need outside help for this kind of thing.

I remember "inform the troops" podcasts out of NDHQ a while back produced by media experts who had next to no military experience - not great, in spite of the level of subject matter expertise of the folks interviewed.  It'll be interesting to see if this works any better.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (26 Nov 2012)

:facepalm:

Really ....


----------



## mba2011 (26 Nov 2012)

I saw this, and I was fairly surprised.

WADR its not that complicated. There are enough young NCM's and officers that could take the time to do the job. 

I am a OCdt going to university through ROTP. This summer I had a few weeks between course and school starting again so I was employed at Greenwood in the OR. I am not a LOG O or in an air trade, it just is the base I am posted too, and it made more sense (and cheaper) that I be employed there for the 10 days rather than be sent on TD to somewhere like Pet, Edmonton or Gagetown to do something related to my trade.  I did PA and recycled old paperwork for a week. I did learn a fair bit about the paperwork I was dealing with, information that will help me later in my career, but it wasn't something directly to my trade. If the CF needed someone to work with social media,I would've gladly worked on the CF's twitter feed. There were a couple of Pte (R) doing EWAT at the WOR as well. The five of us were all under 25 and we all use twitter and Facebook daily. If the CF had asked, we all would've taken care of social media. 

It wouldn't take much time, The Canadian Army Facebook Page administrator makes +/- 5 posts a day. If you asked, you'd find mbr's willing to spend the 20 mins a day to make posts on behalf of LFAA. 

It's not something that requires much training, and because its going to the public, it wouldn't require a higher security clearance. 

IMO there's cheaper, more logical ways to accomplish this task than spending money on civi consulting firms. Any PAO who uses Facebook or Twitter in their personal life could do this job.  This is just my  :2c:


----------



## Harris (26 Nov 2012)

It's more than just the maintaining of the accounts.  There is analysis involved of the actual accounts as well.  For example, are the tweets reaching the intended audience?  Is it even worthwhile to have an account?

You'd be surprised at the amount of hoops that need to be jumped through to have these accounts.  The tweets must be bilingual for example.


----------



## DAA (26 Nov 2012)

And what about Recruiting?  Where is Recruiting?  I know Recruiting tweets and when they do, it is weeks, if not months out of date!!!  What happened to forces.ca "Chat" where applicants could actually speak with a Recruiter?


----------



## Harris (26 Nov 2012)

armourmike said:
			
		

> WADR its not that complicated. There are enough young NCM's and officers that could take the time to do the job.
> 
> If the CF needed someone to work with social media,I would've gladly worked on the CF's twitter feed. There were a couple of Pte (R) doing EWAT at the WOR as well. The five of us were all under 25 and we all use twitter and Facebook daily. If the CF had asked, we all would've taken care of social media.
> 
> ...



I have to disagree with you on nearly all your points.

Yes you are familiar with twitter and Facebook.  Are you also up to speed on the Area Commanders, priorities and main messages he wants to get out to the public?  Would you know what should and should not be posted?  The civi company isn't making the posts.  They are running the sites, providing advice on the use of and content, and analyzing them to see if they are even read or worthwhile.  Can you do that?  Do you have the analysis tools/software to do so?

You say there are pers ready to volunteer to run sites.  I have asked pers to help out with the Unit site and guess how many volunteers I received?  None.  Not a one.

As for the PAO doing the sites, what if they're not familiar with Facebook or Twitter?  Hell, I can barely get anyone to use Word properly or paste a link into an email rather than sending me 11 Meg attachments (received one Thur that killed my inbox until I went in on Sat to clear it out).

The senior leadership, in general, is not Internet or social media savy.  They have to hire the expertise to show them how to use the tools.

Ever try to use Facebook or Twitter on an issue BB?  Have fun with that.


----------



## Harris (26 Nov 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> And what about Recruiting?  Where is Recruiting?  I know Recruiting tweets and when they do, it is weeks, if not months out of date!!!  What happened to forces.ca "Chat" where applicants could actually speak with a Recruiter?



LFAA HQ does not run the recruiting in the Area.  Your comment has nothing to do with the topic, but it does point to why LFAA is trying to get the expertise it needs by contracting out.  The leadership needs to be educated and people in house can't do that because most don't know themselves.


----------



## mba2011 (26 Nov 2012)

That's a fair point. But it still isn't so complex or time consuming it couldn't be solved another way (rather than hiring a communications firm). You done't need to hire a separate firm to see the hits on your twitter or FB page. In high school, I helped the company I worked for with their FB page. Facebook gives you a weekly report on how many views your page has, what their ages,genders, locations are. Its free and given to you by FB. They use the information because they sell advertising. Google does the same thing with their AdSense service. Analysis doesn't require spending thousands on an outside firm.

If the CF is needing it done better then it was done before hiring someone to do it, there has to be a cheaper way to do it. The mbr doing it doesn't necessarily need to know the Commander's intent. You wouldn't need to know the CoC has a larger strategy to recruit X number of recruits from a specific demographic over the next 4 years. You just need to know what the general ideas of the post. For example if you were to get a list of topics or Army News articles to post about, it wouldn't be hard to do write posts regarding those articles. You can take the articles from Army News and write a post in everyday language that appeals to people on civi street with the link to the Army News article at the bottom. 

IRT PA O's running the sites, I would bet that there are DE Officers or even officers who went through ROTP, that are fairly well versed in social media. Not to play on the whole stereotypes about generation gaps, but if you're under 30, you probably use FB daily in you're personal life. So those officers are likely fairly internet savy.

I'm not saying this is the absolute best way to accomplish this, but IMO its smarter and cheaper than hiring a firm to do this job.


----------



## DAA (26 Nov 2012)

Harris said:
			
		

> LFAA HQ does not run the recruiting in the Area.  Your comment has nothing to do with the topic, but it does point to why LFAA is trying to get the expertise it needs by contracting out.  The leadership needs to be educated and people in house can't do that because most don't know themselves.



Oh but my post does have to do with the topic.  Who is next?  LFQA, LFCA, LFWA, MARCOM, AIRCOM and where does it end or does it?  Maybe we should go to unit level tweets and facebook pages...


----------



## Jarnhamar (26 Nov 2012)

I found Facebook worked extremely well for keeping in touch with soldiers in a reserve unit.


----------



## George Wallace (26 Nov 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I found Facebook worked extremely well for keeping in touch with soldiers in a reserve unit.




As do many other individuals and organizations....... :nod:


----------



## Strike (26 Nov 2012)

Armourmike, the issue with using OJTs to run the sites is that you lose continuity.  You want someone who's going to be around for a long enough time so that the FB page is run the same way and the person then also gets familiar with regular posters and helps to make the FB page a living page with its own personality.

Twitter is more of a tool for the media than anyone else and can be done by any one person really.  At least in Western Area, it is more a tool to direct people to new postings on their web pages.


----------



## OldSolduer (26 Nov 2012)

OK What genius approved this?

Never mind..... :facepalm:


----------



## mba2011 (26 Nov 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> Armourmike, the issue with using OJTs to run the sites is that you lose continuity.  You want someone who's going to be around for a long enough time so that the FB page is run the same way and the person then also gets familiar with regular posters and helps to make the FB page a living page with its own personality.
> 
> Twitter is more of a tool for the media than anyone else and can be done by any one person really.  At least in Western Area, it is more a tool to direct people to new postings on their web pages.



That's a good point re continuity on FB. However does it require an outside consultant? Maybe using OJT's isn't ideal, but given the current climate for cutting costs, do we need to be spending $300 dollars a day to have a civi consultant manage 2 FB accounts and a twitter feed for 8 months?

IRT the LFAA twitter feed, the vast majority of the tweets are just that, links to the LFAA FB page, an Army News article or a DND internet page.


----------



## a_majoor (26 Nov 2012)

Evil thought: 

give the Facebook account to the PSYOPS crowd to play with. They can practice messaging and analysis to their heats content.....

(Yes, I know we are not supposed to do PSYOPS on the Canadian Public...)


----------



## dapaterson (26 Nov 2012)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Evil thought:
> 
> give the Facebook account to the PSYOPS crowd to play with. They can practice messaging and analysis to their heats content.....
> 
> *(Yes, I know we are not supposed to do PSYOPS on the Canadian Public...)*



Exactly.  Then it's called Public Affairs  >


----------



## Strike (26 Nov 2012)

armourmike said:
			
		

> That's a good point re continuity on FB. However does it require an outside consultant? Maybe using OJT's isn't ideal, but given the current climate for cutting costs, do we need to be spending $300 dollars a day to have a civi consultant manage 2 FB accounts and a twitter feed for 8 months?
> 
> IRT the LFAA twitter feed, the vast majority of the tweets are just that, links to the LFAA FB page, an Army News article or a DND internet page.



Speaking from experience, the Area HQ PA shops just don't have the manpower to manage a FB page (or 3) with all the extra that entails, as well as handle the rest of the day-to-day activities AND all the pop-ups and mini-fires that happen all the time.



			
				dapaterson said:
			
		

> Exactly.  Then it's called Public Affairs  >



DP - Shhhh! Don't let the guys at ADM(PA) hear you say that!   >


----------



## brihard (27 Nov 2012)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Evil thought:
> 
> give the Facebook account to the PSYOPS crowd to play with. They can practice messaging and analysis to their heats content.....
> 
> (Yes, I know we are not supposed to do PSYOPS on the Canadian Public...)



I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately thoguht of the IA crowd.

33 CBG has an NCO who works in the PAff cell who manages the brigade Facebook site. Last I heard they got him on one of the intro level public affairs courses or some such. Why not do exactly that? Put an internet savvy reserve NCO on a three year contract, put him on a PAff course and the Target Audience Analysis course run out of PSTC and there you go. That's half an hour out of his day, and the rest of the time he does whatever other task a brigade or area HQ has in abundance for administratively competent NCOs.


----------



## cupper (27 Nov 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately thoguht of the IA crowd.
> 
> 33 CBG has an NCO who works in the PAff cell who manages the brigade Facebook site. Last I heard they got him on one of the intro level public affairs courses or some such. Why not do exactly that? Put an internet savvy reserve NCO on a three year contract, put him on a PAff course and the Target Audience Analysis course run out of PSTC and there you go. That's half an hour out of his day, and the rest of the time he does whatever other task a brigade or area HQ has in abundance for administratively competent NCOs.



That would be logical. Thus a non starter. ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Nov 2012)

Facebook pages are popular when it's a sections page or a regiments NCMs and JNCOs or a mess's page.  The higher up the chain it goes the more stale and 'army like' the pages become and the less people become interested in it.


----------



## brihard (27 Nov 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Facebook pages are popular when it's a sections page or a regiments NCMs and JNCOs or a mess's page.  The higher up the chain it goes the more stale and 'army like' the pages become and the less people become interested in it.



Yup. As soon as content has to be sanctioned, most troops conserve their GAFF for other pursuits.


----------



## Takeniteasy (27 Nov 2012)

Times they are a changen!  I remember when I first started a FB page for Soldier On..(2006). Back then they had the Cause pages and I actually got it up to about 18,000 followers, I could email at any given time up to 5000 people... Thankfully for those people I did not spam them, just sent emails about once a month and kept the page up to date with links and pics.  Big part of getting the word out across Canada.    

Today there is an "official" SO page.  

Thankfully I never listened to anyone who said it was not appropriate!! 

Andrew


----------



## Harris (27 Nov 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> 33 CBG has an NCO who works in the PAff cell who manages the brigade Facebook site. Last I heard they got him on one of the intro level public affairs courses or some such. Why not do exactly that? Put an internet savvy reserve NCO on a three year contract, put him on a PAff course and the Target Audience Analysis course run out of PSTC and there you go. That's half an hour out of his day, and the rest of the time he does whatever other task a brigade or area HQ has in abundance for administratively competent NCOs.



Sounds like a great idea, but this Area is cutting Class B's, not creating new ones, and the Internet is not considered a priority.  I'm not saying that having a civilian consultant is necessarily the best way to do this, (I'm not saying it isn't either), but we've been tasked to use social media (and as always a new task is issued without any funding or training).  The current staff can't do it (And I'm not part of the PAO shop, but I do work closely with them), so the current solution was to hire consultants to analyze the task, recommend the best way to do it, and to educate the staff at the same time.  This isn't a full time from now on task.  It's more of a trial to see how things go.  At the end of the day it's far cheaper to hire a civi company than to employ someone to do this.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (27 Nov 2012)

So I see LFAA now consists of:



> @LFAA_Comd (Twitter)
> 
> 36 Canadian Brigade Group (Facebook)
> 
> Land Force Atlantic Area (Facebook)


 only.....


----------



## The Bread Guy (27 Nov 2012)

Harris said:
			
		

> ....  the current solution was to hire consultants to analyze the task, recommend the best way to do it, and to educate the staff at the same time.  *This isn't a full time from now on task.  It's more of a trial to see how things go* ....


----------



## Eye In The Sky (27 Nov 2012)

There is not enough money, so Cl B reservists are being cut, but there is money to hire a civilian "socialmedia" expect to work from home.

 :

If the Internet is not a priority, why are they hiring a contractor for Internet work ???


----------



## George Wallace (27 Nov 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> There is not enough money, so Cl B reservists are being cut, but there is money to hire a civilian "socialmedia" expect to work from home.
> 
> :
> 
> If the Internet is not a priority, why are they hiring a contractor for Internet work ???



So we can hire a contractor by the name of Leslie to lay off contractors.    :


----------



## Eye In The Sky (27 Nov 2012)

:facepalm:


----------



## Harris (27 Nov 2012)

OK.  I get it.  No matter what I say you guys think it's a bad idea.  Since I have no horse in this race I'll leave you guys to it.  Please bash away.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (27 Nov 2012)

Harris said:
			
		

> At the end of the day it's far cheaper to hire a civi company than to employ someone to do this.



How much is this Facebook *expert* getting paid over 8 months?  Interesting to see how it compares to the Cl B wages for a Cpl, as an example.


----------



## armyvern (27 Nov 2012)

Interesting.

We managed to pull this off for MTTF Afghanistan using our PAO Cell to run/manage/post the accounts. (Facebook, Flickr, Youtube accounts for our mission etc etc) ...

They (PAOs) are aware of messages that need to go out, Comd intent, and determining whether or not the message is meeting it's intended audience, in an appropriate manner too, should be part and parcel of their job description already no? Communication to/from the public.  Don't know how to use it? Train 'em. It's what we have to do with Sup Techs when new systems such as DRMIS come online.  I fail to see the difficulty with that task and accomplishing it in-house.  The CF does not need consultants to do this.

Guaranteed the DWAN, and every other system, back here in Canada runs faster than the deployed version too (for those noting sl_oooo_wness).


----------



## McG (28 Nov 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> There is not enough money, so Cl B reservists are being cut, but there is money to hire a civilian "socialmedia" expect to work from home.


The article says services have been contracted - it does not say how much is being paid nor does it state the services are full-time work.  Perhaps the service is being contracted because the work is less than full time employment.  Employing an additional PY or paying for a Cl B reservist may be wasteful in comparison to whatever monies are going to this contract.  Based on the information provided, we cannot know.


----------



## George Wallace (28 Nov 2012)

Problems with these IT contractors, is that they come in and do a half ass job, collect their cash and leave without leaving any records of what programming they did.   There are numerous programs that are being used with serious problems, and no one knows how to fix them.  We get what we paid for.......Often it is a mess that will take more expenses to be spent to fix or replace it.  This is not DND/CF specific.


----------



## McG (28 Nov 2012)

What is the link to this thread?  This contract would appear to have nothing to do with any software programming.


----------



## George Wallace (28 Nov 2012)

MCG said:
			
		

> What is the link to this thread?  This contract would appear to have nothing to do with any software programming.



Sorry.  I was using that as an example of what has happened.   If you are familiar with the construction of the barracks in Petawawa over the years, you could use them as an example of contractors building buildings, taking shortcuts and perhaps bribing inspectors to look the other way as they take the insulation out of one mod and move it to the next, etc.  Then on completion of the building they declare bankruptcy and no long intend to cover the five years of fixing flaws; only to come back the next year with a new company name to build yet another building.  CE then must go in and repair plumbing, insulation, wiring, etc. as the contractors are no longer in business (under that company name).

There are numerous examples of "Contractors" bilking the government on projects.   What guarrantees are there that they will be responsibile after their period of employment to return to fix any problems in their project?  Often, once they are gone, so is any likelihood that that will happen.


----------



## Harris (28 Nov 2012)

OK.  Perhaps It's my own fault for not being clearer before.

The contractor is being hired to analyze the tweets and FB page entries (I'm paraphrasing here) to see if the material the Comd and the staff put us is valid and informing/hitting the target audience, which is the Canadian public in LFAA, not necessarily the soldiers.  They are also suggesting how the messaging can be tweaked to get the best effect.

They are not running the site, they do not decide what content goes on the sites.  They are not programing/building/creating anything except reports for the PAO and his staff based on processes/software that they use to create these reports.  I'm not sure of the exact $ figure, but I do know that it is not a lot of money.  Definitely a lot less than hiring a Class B, as was suggested earlier.  This is a part time service they are performing.  LFAA HQ did not hire full time contractors to perform a duty instead of using a military person.

They are performing a service that the PAO and his staff cannot do and/or don't have the experience/trg to do.  The contract is also for less than a year and is not intended to be a long term thing.

The PAO looked at other options to achieve the same effect and this route was the cheapest way to get the best bank for the buck.  At the end of the day you can like it or not, but it was seen as the best way forward at the time.

I'll let him know this thread is here and if he wants to clarify/defend his actions he can do so, but IMO some of you are making a mountain out of a molehill.  I'd be more concerned about us contracting out to Shared Services Canada than this.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Nov 2012)

MCG said:
			
		

> The article says services have been contracted - it does not say how much is being paid nor does it state the services are full-time work.  Perhaps the service is being contracted because the work is less than full time employment.  Employing an additional PY or paying for a Cl B reservist may be wasteful in comparison to whatever monies are going to this contract.  Based on the information provided, we cannot know.



Agreed, which lead to my question WRT the contract amount.  However, that may not be readily known or avail.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (28 Nov 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Agreed, which lead to my question WRT the contract amount.  However, that may not be readily known or avail.



It would be if someone wanted to put up a $5.00 FOI request


----------



## armyvern (29 Nov 2012)

Dear person in charge of hiring consultants,

Please see video link at 1:25 to 1:31 (Way to go LFWAPAOs!!)

PM me for my banking details for my consultant fee (2 days fees to solve your problem - my earlier post pointing out PAOs, and the work today linking this post to detail what others have already figured out [in-house] for facebook, flickr, youtube, twitter ...).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/108459/post-1191942.html#msg1191942


----------

