# Canadian soldiers arrested after drunken brawl



## Bigmac (4 Mar 2007)

> Canadian soldiers arrested after drunken brawl
> 
> THREE Canadian soldiers were arrested after a drunken brawl with police outside a club in Limassol early yesterday.
> 
> ...


http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

     Boys will be boys! Unfortunate incident, but they will be dealt with by their RSM I guarantee.


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## GAP (4 Mar 2007)

Link takes you to "Fraud victims in new appeal against lawyer  "


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## Bigmac (4 Mar 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> Link takes you to "Fraud victims in new appeal against lawyer  "



Menu on left of page, click on "news" and scroll down to last article.


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## GAP (4 Mar 2007)

I tried finding another link, but it only gives the one link....you're right.....just needed directions to find it...thanks


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## Michael OLeary (4 Mar 2007)

Here's the link the the specific article - http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=31084&cat_id=1


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## 1feral1 (4 Mar 2007)

Ya lads blowing off steam, and the gutless media gets a hold of it! They are just as bad as the enemy in many ways, and they disgust me to the bone beyond a joke.

Want the truth, divide by 3. I can't see it as being as bad as they say.


Cheers,

Wes


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## Sig_Des (4 Mar 2007)

3 guys a brawl does not make...

In other news, the exact same damned thing occured in numerous cities all over the world as alcohol was consumed by young men on a Saturday evening! It very well may be a conspiracy....

I can't wait to see how Taliban Jack and his NDP Super-sleuths play this one.


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## KwaiLo (4 Mar 2007)

While a drunken fight with 3 soldiers of any nationality may not be news, attacking the police that come to arrest you is newsworthy.

I can't make a comment about the acuracy of the story, but if it is accurate, it is worth printing.


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## 1feral1 (4 Mar 2007)

KwaiLo said:
			
		

> While a drunken fight with 3 soldiers of any nationality may not be news, attacking the police that come to arrest you is newsworthy.
> 
> I can't make a comment about the acuracy of the story, but if it is accurate, it is worth printing.



There are more important things to report in the news than a few' pissed up lads' creating a disturbance, which as been, yes you guessed it, hijacked by the media, and no doubt twisted to get ratings.

Bruises and scratches are nothing, even on a Cypriot Copper. If it was worse, say broken bones, or involving a knife, etc, yes then its newsworthy, but on page 99 of a 100 page paper.

Thats my opinion.

Cheers from Baghdaddy,

Wes


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## Sig_Des (4 Mar 2007)

Wesley (Over There) said:
			
		

> There are more important things to report in the news than a few' pissed up lads' creating a disturbance, which as been, yes you guessed it, hijacked by the media, and no doubt twisted to get ratings.
> 
> Bruises and scratches are nothing, even on a Cypriot Copper. If it was worse, say broken bones, or involving a knife, etc, yes then its newsworthy, but on page 99 of a 100 page paper.



Agree completely. The way I see it, the boys were drunk...got a little mouthy, blowing off steam...cops came in, boys were mouthy..Cops proceeded to try to make arrest, and the last probably struggled...

But, we weren't there. It will be dealt with. But not newsworthy, unless someone had been seriously hurt, or weapons were involved.

Glad to see you're still around and posting Wes,

Stay safe


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## NavalGent (4 Mar 2007)

As far as I can tell, this hasn't been picked up by any Canadian media. Perhaps we can do our part to help this non-issue fade into history by letting this thread fade into the background of army.ca.


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## Kiwi99 (4 Mar 2007)

Apparently, and I stress the apparently, the dudes got drunk, fought police and got arrested.  Big deal.  They broke the law of the host nation and will pay the price accordingly, which is bloody expensive I might add.  Blowing off steam is one thing, but I hope that this doesn't turn into a 'Afghanistan stressed me out and made me do it' angle by the media.
Ya know, thinking more about it, we are guests of the Cypriots, who have our commander guarentee that we will be civil and well behaved, and these dudes go and tarnish  the Canadian name with their antics.  Serves em right.
And if anyone decides to jump all over me for this comment, hold back.  I did my time in Cyprus last year after  7 months in A-stan, and not a single member of my company (C) acted like this.  However, other units did, and it was disgraceful to watch.
If I can quote the manager of the hotel we were staying
"I expected you infantry guys to me out of control, but you are the best behaved of all.  It is all those other types who embarras you and cause trouble."

No pity on these three, but I agree, it is not newsworthy.  But what is these days?


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## Mike Baker (4 Mar 2007)

Must be a slow news day. Well, at least _they_ never got the shyte kicked out of them


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## Dirty Patricia (4 Mar 2007)

Kiwi hit it bang on.  Well said.


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## navymich (4 Mar 2007)

I’ll state right off that I have never served overseas (yes, on the seas, but never over them!), but it doesn’t mean that I’m not interested in what is going on, and haven’t heard from friends about things, which is why I am posting this and trying to understand more.

If I understand correctly, the troops that are currently in Cyprus are on decompression leave?  From reading posts here and hearing things, I understand decompression leave to be a time where you are finally in a safe haven, to unwind before being reunited with family and friends back home.  Are there other things that occur?  Administration?  Medicals?  Intel debriefs?  (If any of that can be mentioned, of course.)

I know that even after just sailing for a couple months, I needed to unwind, so I can only imagine what it would be like after 7 months in combat.  I am certainly not trying to excuse what happened in this incident, but anyone that has ever drank, especially to excess, knows that you’re not yourself.  Add on to that the first time drinking again in months, the taste of freedom and knowing you’ll be home soon, plus everything that you have just been through, and it’s not going to be a decompression, it’s going to be a spontaneous combustion.

As mentioned by other posters, this hasn’t been the first time something like this has happened, nor will it be the last.  But this is a time when it has been brought to the attention of everyone through the media.  This means that soon enough, there is going to be someone screaming for a solution probably.  What can be done though?  Should the troops get sent straight home?  Should decompression be held in Canada, so we would be looking after our own, per se?  Should the troops be “babysat”, only allowed out on their own, watched over by a guard, all alcohol and money taken away?  Any other ideas?

I am sure that many people have opinions on how they think decompression should or shouldn’t work, but I think the ones that would mean the most are those that have actually been involved in it, in some capacity.  And I am genuinely interested in what you would do to change it (if anything) and why.

I hope I haven’t opened up too big of a can of worms here, but as I stated at the beginning, I am interested in learning, and therefore I open the floor…..


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## ladybugmabj (4 Mar 2007)

It must be a slow news day!!  Boys will be boys, unfortunately, this doenst' look good, but the Regiment will take care of it, no doubts about it. I'll have to ask hubby tonight who got into trouble!! he's due back in country tonight!!


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## Kiwi99 (4 Mar 2007)

Alcohol is an excuse, nothing more.  If you know that you can't handle it, don't touch it!  If you still want to tie one on, ask a buddy to look after you.  DO NOT use it as an excuse.
The tour is 6-7 months long.  But it is not all combat all the time. In fact, the old story of 99% boredom and 1% total fear springs to mind.  
Decompression is agin, in my opinion, a knee jerk reaction to popular myths ref PTSD.  You want to decompress me, then get me home to my family. Again, my opinion.
Do troops need a babysitter?  To answer that, there are troops in Canada that need their mothers with them still to look after them.
The best way to treat the troops is treat them like soldiers.  read them the riot act.  If they dislike that and contravene it, to bad, so sad.  

The whole decompression issue is to large to really explain.  Some need it, some don't.  I was fortunate enough to be in a Pl where the other NCOs were the best, and if I had a proble, which I did'nt, I know they would have been there.  If anything, decompression comes to late.  We should lool more at critical incident stress debriefing as soon as possible after an event, rather than wait for the end of the tour.

To say that boys will be boys is one thing,  but soldiers are expected to act like soldiers!!!


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Kiwi99 said:
			
		

> Alcohol is an excuse, nothing more.  If you know that you can't handle it, don't touch it!  If you still want to tie one on, ask a buddy to look after you.  DO NOT use it as an excuse.



I agree.



> To say that boys will be boys is one thing,  but soldiers are expected to act like soldiers!!!



Punch these three words into google - "military mutiny Canada", read the links, then tell me again how soldiers are, historically, expected to act.

Incidents such as this happen - it ain't pretty, it ain't nice, and it ain't what your Momma taught ya'.  BUT - they happen, always have, always will.

Does this make those soldiers less culpable?  Absolutely not.  I'm sure the CoC will throw the book at them, and rightly so.

Does this incident constitute a major news story?  I don't think so - there are drunken soldiers, sailors, and airmen (of all nations) mixing it up with the local constabulary every day - and there are hungover soldiers, sailors, and airmen (of all nations) taking their hats off, coming to attention, and explaining themselves to the CO every day.

I just don't think it's newsworthy.


Roy


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## orange.paint (4 Mar 2007)

It happend in Slovenia,and I'm sure every R&R site ever occupied by forces.
When we landed in Slovenia our R&R warrant in charge there gave us a brief.
Basically they had an agreement with the LP to arrest us then call the Warrant to come down and get us.It basically protected us from ending up in prison (anyone remember midnight express ;D).As our legal system would charge us more harshly.

I was witness of a man standing on a bar and urinating all over the place.
There are idiots everywhere.Added they sometimes don't know their limits with alcohol after 6 months dry.

It basically boils down to "who's an idiot and who ain't."Alcohol is a excuse as per.Assholes also travel in packs,so telling another idiot "yeah look after me if I get out of it" is kind of useless if he's a idiot as well.

From Newfoundland government WW2 in reference to Canadian and American troops stationed there:

Walwyn’s final report as Governor in 1945 admitted that, "The conduct of United States forces outside the bases and in relation to Newfoundland citizens has been distinctly better than their Canadian friends."


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## ladybugmabj (4 Mar 2007)

Kiwi99 said:
			
		

> Decompression is agin, in my opinion, a knee jerk reaction to popular myths ref PTSD.  You want to decompress me, then get me home to my family. Again, my opinion.
> 
> To say that boys will be boys is one thing,  but soldiers are expected to act like soldiers!!!



I am so glad that my husband, and the rest of Charles Coy 1RCR have that decompression...okay...then entire battlegroup. To have him come home tonight a little less stressed than he did 4 and half months ago after watching 4 of his troops die, is a little more comforting. Even when he did get home, we had a funeral to attend, plus visit the parents of one of his soldiers.
 I've been to the briefings, listend to others talk about how the decompression helps. Granted, he would have rather come straight home, but I would have rather him spend a few days learning how to relax again before coming home.  The soldiers before heading to Cyprus were read the riot act (after some damage done to some rooms before hand). The riot act will be read again to them once they head into work on Tuesday. 

Oh, and I don't think that this tour or the previous tour was 99% boredom.


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

ladybugmabj said:
			
		

> I am so glad that my husband, and the rest of Charles Coy 1RCR have that decompression...okay...then entire battlegroup. To have him come home tonight a little less stressed than he did 4 and half months ago after watching 4 of his troops die, is a little more comforting. Even when he did get home, we had a funeral to attend, plus visit the parents of one of his soldiers.
> I've been to the briefings, listend to others talk about how the decompression helps. Granted, he would have rather come straight home, but I would have rather him spend a few days learning how to relax again before coming home.  The soldiers before heading to Cyprus were read the riot act (after some damage done to some rooms before hand). The riot act will be read again to them once they head into work on Tuesday.
> 
> Oh, and I don't think that this tour or the previous tour was 99% boredom.



Have you been corresponding with my wife?

She is also a big fan of the decompression theory.  I returned home MUCH less of a wreck after Afghanistan than I had on previous tours.

I, too, would have preferred to come straight home - with hindsight of years (my Gawd - DECADES!) in some cases, I think the decompression idea is a good one - even if you don't feel like you need it - get MAD, get REAL MAD about it, THEN come home.

Roy


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## Gunner98 (4 Mar 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Does this make those soldiers less culpable?  Absolutely not.  I'm sure the CoC will throw the book at them, and rightly so. Roy



From article 





> "Limassol police said that the men were charged and released a few hours after their arrest. He added that the men were due to return to their country today."



If the soldiers were charged (with drunkenness, resisting arrest and assault on a police officer) and brought before a judge in Cyprus (which happens very quickly) then there is the potential for Double Jeopardy should their unit decide to apply NDA.  Any follow-up back in Canada will most likely be administrative in nature.


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## Blackadder1916 (4 Mar 2007)

Well, it seems that regardless of the steps taken over the years to eliminate incidents such as this, they haven't been able to alter the genetic disposition to stupidity of some soldiers.  

(_Before the inevitable post taking me to task for insulting soldiers, let me state that I have been stupid in the past.  In fact, if memory serves me right, I got pretty stupid one night in Limassol, a few decades ago.) _ 

What amuses me the most about this thread, are the comments concerning the media blowing this out of proportion.  What media?  I googled for news "Canadian soldiers drunken brawl Cyprus" and only the one item showed up.  How did the original poster find that story?  At the moment the only ones making an issue of this are us.


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## Kiwi99 (4 Mar 2007)

I had 4 soldiers from my platoon killed on Aug 03 last year, and 10 wounded.  I know what stress is.  Everybody is different.  Like I said before, I had good buddies around me.  The difference between your husbands decompression and mine is this;

We were the first to got through the decompression.  it was brutal for us because nobody could understand what we had been through and done.  Not even the social workers.  We were an oddity.  relaxed to talk to but still somewhat reserved.
Hopefully for your husband this has changed.  We reccomended changes that have hopefully been enacted.  
When I got back with mu buddies and my family I was good to go because i was with normal people (in my eyes anyway).  So, I hope that the decompression helped him in a way that benefits you both.  here is a question for you, being a wife and all.  Should spouses attend decompression with their husbands?


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> From article
> If the soldiers were charged (with drunkenness, resisting arrest and assault on a police officer) and brought before a judge in Cyprus (which happens very quickly) then there is the potential for Double Jeopardy should their unit decide to apply NDA.  Any follow-up back in Canada will most likely be administrative in nature.



As I recall from the (admittedly dim) past - there is some sort of agreement in place regarding foreign soldiers in Cyprus.  Something to the effect of they will pay damages (if required), but will not face Cypriot criminal proceedings - on the understanding that their home nation will take care of the criminal aspect of things.

It's entirely possible that I'm out to lunch here - if so, please correct me.

Roy


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Kiwi99 said:
			
		

> ...
> We were the first to got through the decompression.  ...



Bullshit.

3VP Op Apollo were the "first" - not that it matters.

The rest of your post is spot on.

Roy


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## Gunner98 (4 Mar 2007)

Roy:

Although there are/have been agreements, in at least one case during the last 18 months indicates the Cypriots do not take kindly to resisting arrest and abuse of their policemen.  The fine (in one case) was approx. $1300 Cdn.

Arrest, jail, and trial in less than 12 hours.


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## Dirty Patricia (4 Mar 2007)

> Bullshit.
> 
> 3VP Op Apollo were the "first" - not that it matters.



Relax Roy.  You're right though - it doesn't matter.  I'm pretty sure what Kiwi was referring to though were our experiences.  Those were a first in the last 50 years.


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Dirty Patricia said:
			
		

> Relax Roy.  You're right though - it doesn't matter.  I'm pretty sure what Kiwi was referring to though were our experiences.  Those were a first in the last 50 years.



OKay


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Roy:
> 
> Although there are/have been agreements, in at least one case during the last 18 months indicates the Cypriots do not take kindly to resisting arrest and abuse of their policemen.  The fine (in one case) was approx. $1300 Cdn.
> 
> Arrest, jail, and trial in less than 12 hours.



I'm still not sure that I understand (alright, I AM sure that I DON'T understand) the implications of Cypriot law on our soldiers.  Fines are "fine" so to speak, and always have been, but are our soldiers subject to imprisonment on that particular bit of paradise?

Roy


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## Spidron (4 Mar 2007)

Definitely sounds like the Military's free ride with the media is over. Abused detainees, dead civilians, drunken soldiers... sounds like the liberal left is firing up to make headlines over everything negative they can find. I can see the editors saying "we have been too soft on this mission, run the dirt!"


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## Gunner98 (4 Mar 2007)

Fines (or charitable contributions to Cyrpus) are handed down and once paid allow a soldier to be released from custody and return with unit to Canada.  This hearing and punishment prevents them from being retried in Canada for even Drunkenness.

If incident is 'handled effectively' by Cdn MPs then the book can be thrown at them back in Canada.


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Fines (or charitable contributions to Cyrpus) are handed down and once paid allow a soldier to be released from custody and return with unit to Canada.  This hearing and punishment prevents them from being retried in Canada for even Drunkenness.
> 
> If incident is 'handled effectively' by Cdn MPs then the book can be thrown at them back in Canada.



Thanks.


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## Dissident (4 Mar 2007)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> [...]then the book can be thrown at them back in Canada.



I would not feel comfortable, looking into the eyes of the offending soldiers and telling them that they were going to get the 3rd degree, simply because their moment of drunken stupidity made the news.

I hope we do not scapegoat anyone for the sake of public relations.


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## ladybugmabj (4 Mar 2007)

Kiwi99, I apologize for any insensitivity that I have. I do believe that the decompression is a well deserved break for the infantry and anyone esle who has been outide that wire. I worry so much for my husband after this tour. He's done 8 so far, and this by far was the worst. He too lost 4 people from his company, 2 from his platoon on September 3rd (his WO, and the young private - from his section). As for the briefings, he mentioned he's heard it all before, but didnt' realize the resources that were available if needed, and I pray that he doesn't. 
  The military is learning from each tour about decompression, FRC's, resources, etc......I just hope it's not too late for any further tours.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Mar 2007)

Some of the guys can be real idiots and get right out of hand. Usually it's a few guys who ruin it for everyone.

Like everyone else I wanted to come straight home. I'm glad we got to go to Greece. I got to see a new country a little, got to stay at an amazing hotel, eat great food and most of all relax a little with buddies from my platoon. Sure I wanted home in a bad way but in hindsight I'm glad for the 4 days. (Getting home after that was bullshit however).

I liked the breifings that they had in the leave center. Now by liked I mean I recognized a lot of the behaviors they touched on and noticed them immediatly in myself and also from previous tours. Gave me a lot of pause for thought.
The classes need a lot of work for people to take them seriously. No one want to tak the fun away from boys who just spent 6 months in afghanistan but I think we could use with controling some of the boys a little more. If someones going to be out of control, play smashy at the hotel start fights or disrupt the classes well then they should be removed from the intigator, alcohol.
 Thats not everyone, just the guys who can't handle it.

I don't get all the "it's a slow day in the media" comments. It's the media guys. ANYTHING thats even remotely close to being a story is going to be plastered across the news. It's in their nature.  Should we be surprised? not at all.

You put 200+ hockey players or anyone else for that matter in a place like Limmasol every 4 days with alcohol and I can guarentee you that they would cause a hell of a lot more shit than Canadian Soldiers there.


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## ladybugmabj (4 Mar 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> You put 200+ hockey players or anyone else for that matter in a place like Limmasol every 4 days with alcohol and I can guarentee you that they would cause a hell of a lot more crap than Canadian Soldiers there.



Very true!!!


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## gaspasser (4 Mar 2007)

Decompresson is one thing. Taking it out on the local contabulary is another.  I find it ironic that the troops are told to go blow steam but need to restrain themselves from overindulging, as most will.  I think they do need to decompress and not come "home " with unresolved issues and take it out on thier families.   Hopefully this will not turn into an ugly international incident and Cyprus refuses entry for our troops.
My 0.02




To ladybugmabj, I hope your hubby (and all the other troops in his regiment) comes home safe and sound and has no unresolved issues to deal with. 
We're all pullin' for ya.


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## Bigmac (4 Mar 2007)

Wow, I had no idea this post would cause such a stir! The original link was sent to me by a neighbour via email so I assumed it was already picked up by other media sources.

   It has brought up some interesting points:

*1.   Is the decompression area working to alleviate stress in soldiers prior to returning to Canada?*     I say Yes. I have heard from many soldiers who said they needed the time to relax prior to coming home.

*2.   Should the decompression centre be dry or two drink/day limit? *   I say No. Let the troops know the rules, then let them have fun and unwind. Punish the stupid who don't follow the rules.

*3.   Is drinking a problem in the military?*  I say not anymore than the general public. There are always going to be people who act dumb when they are drinking and who here has not done something stupid in their life while under the influence of alcohol? I long ago, as a young Pte, had to stand at attention in front my RSM after a weekend party went awry.  I was punished and straightened my act as I am sure the three soldiers in Cyprus will after their RSM gets through with them.


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## Gimpy (4 Mar 2007)

Spidron said:
			
		

> Definitely sounds like the Military's free ride with the media is over. Abused detainees, dead civilians, drunken soldiers... sounds like the liberal left is firing up to make headlines over everything negative they can find. I can see the editors saying "we have been too soft on this mission, run the dirt!"



I'd be very interested to hear how you feel that the liberal left has a hold of the Cyprus newspaper in which this was posted. The story hasn't been picked up by any news sources in Canada yet, and until any of them have been you're statements are completely baseless.


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## ladybugmabj (4 Mar 2007)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> To ladybugmabj, I hope your hubby (and all the other troops in his regiment) comes home safe and sound and has no unresolved issues to deal with.
> We're all pullin' for ya.



Thanks!!  I'm sure they're fine..for now. He should be landing in Trenton very soon...YIPPPEEEEE. All of the battlegroup is now out of Afghanistan, so now it's 2RCR's turn to make us proud. Good Luck to the 2nd Battalion!!


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## 043 (4 Mar 2007)

Have to wade in as this is a good article..............

Decompression is required............IMHO. As for you guys who are on here slagging the guys for scrapping with the cops..............it happens!!!! Get over it.........these individuals that are decompressing..................are decompressing!!!!!!!!! Cops, civies, bartenders, etc........it's a drunken scrap that people, not just soldiers have been doing for years!!! Don't be some high and mighty and so damn judgmental. In the overall scheme of things, it is very very very minor!


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## Big Red (4 Mar 2007)

Piper said:
			
		

> Alcohol as a tool of relaxation/whatever is a tool of the weak. 'Nuff said.



 : BS. 

Alcohol helps guys relax and talk about things they wouldn't otherwise speak about.  A good bender every now and again keeps people sane.


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## 043 (4 Mar 2007)

Big Red said:
			
		

> : BS.
> 
> Alcohol helps guys relax and talk about things they wouldn't otherwise speak about.  A good bender every now and again keeps people sane.



+10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vonGarvin (4 Mar 2007)

Big Red said:
			
		

> : BS.
> 
> Alcohol helps guys relax and talk about things they wouldn't otherwise speak about.  A good bender every now and again keeps people sane.


I agree 95%.  I am not quite certain that a _*total * _ bender is what's required; however, even alcoholics will state the benefits of alcohol: in moderation.  As you state, it helps you relax and to talk about things that would otherwise be suppressed, and we all know how dangerous that is.

Still, a good bender from time to time is still good: that's why it's called a "good bender".  ;D


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## GUNS (4 Mar 2007)

There is nothing good about having the CF put in the lime light due to the conduct of its soldiers. Going on a "bender" is not always the best thing to do,especially after what these soldiers have been through the past six months.
Do these soldiers deserve a "bender", yes. Is it necessary to go on a "bender", no.  The CF has very good support programs to assist soldiers with whatever bothers them. Alcohol should not be considered as a support treatment.


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## MikeM (4 Mar 2007)

The decompression is a great thing, of course I wanted to come home just as badly as anyone else, I enjoyed my 4 days in Limassol, and aside from a few MINOR events, it went well, those who got in shit were taken off booze and that was that. Troops coming out of theatre need a third location to relax in, a place where they can be with their buddies, blow off some steam, and go on a little bit of a bender with those buddies. As for your comment about alcohol being a tool for the weak to relax, I won't even bother, others have chimed in on that, and those others know what they're talking about.

Piper, cops that get in the shit normally get a critical incident debriefing shortly after its all over and done with. Theres a big difference between that, and getting in the shit overseas. There was one time when anyone from the Psych part of the medical branch came out to the field to chat with us, and that was the day before I got on the Chinook out of the field.. and it wasn't anything formal, just a Col walking around having a chat with the troops, which was nice, but could have been better served somewhere else in the tour (i.e post OP Medusa). At no point after any of our engagements did we take time to chat with the padre about it, we watched our arcs and kept working, it would be nice to have incident debriefings quickly, but it's just not possible. 

As for the professionalism, I agree 100%, but like you said, they came back from something you haven't been close to doing, and thats where it ends for you. People are reading into this way too much, a few guys got loaded, got in a fight, and then the police came. There's nothing different there than a scrap happening at the River Club, or any bar district in Canada on a weekend for that matter. These guys represent the Canadian Forces, but like everywhere in society, it takes 1 person to screw it up for the rest of us. 

It's easy to armchair quarterback and look down on people.


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## Kat Stevens (4 Mar 2007)

Interesting how many of the "boys will be boys" posters in this thread would be the first to yell for heads if three drunken plumbers on Whyte Ave resisted arrest and assaulted law enforcement officers.

And, before anyone gets the wrong idea, I've been plenty drunk, and plenty stupid, plenty of times.  Paid for it every time I got caught, too.


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Interesting how many of the "boys will be boys" posters in this thread would be the first to yell for heads if three drunken plumbers on Whyte Ave resisted arrest and assaulted law enforcement officers.
> 
> And, before anyone gets the wrong idea, I've been plenty drunk, and plenty stupid, plenty of times.  Paid for it every time I got caught, too.



Don't make assumptions - my principles and convictions are clear, and I LIVE by them.

I AM one of the "boys will be boys" posters - and I NEVER yelled regarding Whyte Ave - even when it was my son being (wrongly, I believe - but I'll give the bye to the police) detained.


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## Kat Stevens (4 Mar 2007)

I never said anything about anyone being wrongly detained; That was YOUR assumption, not mine, and I really wasn't looking to get snarky here.  I said anyone RESISTING ARREST AND ASSAULTING LAW ENFORCEMENT TYPES".  Hardly the same as being wrongfully detained.  Nevertheless, I'm obviously wrong, so continue on without me.


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## J.J (4 Mar 2007)

Speaking from personal experience here...I have been on the receiving end, as a LEO of the abuse from recently repatriated soldiers. The soldiers in question were US Marines back from Iraq, coming to Canada for beers and girls. They were mouthy, physical and belligerent and should have gone to jail. I understood where they are coming from, I had a talk with them and they calmed down. My colleagues, who are nonmilitary were quite pissed these Marines were not arrested. I explained their situation, they understood and actually a couple apologized for being hard assed with them and wished them a good night. Guessing what the Cyprus cops would say...boys will be boys. If weapons were involved or serious injuries were incurred that is a different story.  Let the NDA handle the situation (hopefully nothing severe or stupid) and thank the soldiers in question for their service and forget about the incident.


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## Roy Harding (4 Mar 2007)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I never said anything about anyone being wrongly detained; That was YOUR assumption, not mine, and I really wasn't looking to get snarky here.  I said anyone RESISTING ARREST AND ASSAULTING LAW ENFORCEMENT TYPES".  Hardly the same as being wrongfully detained.  Nevertheless, I'm obviously wrong, so continue on without me.



I could take this apart - but I won't.

The point is - YOU made an assumption about ME (amongst others) - YOU got called on it.

I remain firmly in the "boys will be boys" camp - and expect that the CoC will take care of this MINOR incident.


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## mudrecceman (4 Mar 2007)

It seems this incident has happened before!  Many times in fact!

Outside this lil club called Sweetwaters in Freddytown, NB, I have witnessed such news-worthy acts take place.  Wait.  There was more!  Univeristy students also involved in this International news event!

Big deal.  This probably happens after how many pub crawls by "Company A" all across Canada...sheesh.  After hockey games in every city?  On university campus's after football games...yadda yadda yadda.  Hardly news if its paid no attention.

 :


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## orange.paint (4 Mar 2007)

Edmonton during BTE-guys jumped into the dolphin pool on our 48 hr pass.
Slovenia during R&R-member shouting "Chimo"as he urinated from the bar onto the floor...in a waving motion.

I could go on and on but I'm sure you all could name stories in and out of country like this.

The media hasn't picked up on this,or find it too small to even comment.Personally I think we are being to over critical of a unpretentious incident.

Instead of the media blowing this out of proportion we are.

Their chain of command will decide from the VAILD information provided,and drop or press charges.


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## ModlrMike (4 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> I could go on and on but I'm sure you all could name stories in and out of country like this.
> 
> The media hasn't picked up on this,or find it too small to even comment.Personally I think we are being to over critical of a unpretentious incident.
> 
> ...



Exactly. It comes down to a basic principle of being in the service:

Act like an adult... you're treated as an adult; act like a child... you're treated as a child. 

Some folks have to touch the stove to find out that it's hot... as expected, they get burned. If these soldiers did actually transgress, then their units will handle them. There are several examples of this for our tour.


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## Jarnhamar (5 Mar 2007)

> Act like an adult... you're treated as an adult; act like a child... you're treated as a child.



Heh, if only this was true in the CF.  I can't count how many times, at 28 years old, I've been treated like a child at work. Ya no not just me but other fellow soldiers.


An honestly, is this alcohol thing new?
The military has been using alcohol to control troops for how long?
How many ex's have we been on where at the end of the ex we're promised the coveted two beers. We laugh at it and pass it off but at the end there we are for our 2 'earned' beers. The higher ups making it seem like it was the queen herself who authorized it 

Soldiers get drunk, soldier get stupid, media jumps on it and we beat it to death


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## 043 (5 Mar 2007)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Interesting how many of the "boys will be boys" posters in this thread would be the first to yell for heads if three drunken plumbers on Whyte Ave resisted arrest and assaulted law enforcement officers.
> 
> And, before anyone gets the wrong idea, I've been plenty drunk, and plenty stupid, plenty of times.  Paid for it every time I got caught, too.



Kat,

I am so upset.............You've been drunk and stupid?? Ah man!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TheHead (26 Apr 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Bullshit.
> 
> 3VP Op Apollo were the "first" - not that it matters.
> 
> ...



Yeah Roy well 1VO Op Archer were the first to go through sustained combat  in Afghanistan.   - not that it matters  :


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## Kevins833 (5 May 2007)

Piper said:
			
		

> There's been some aguments here about the troops needing this time to unwind before they return to Canada....hence the argument that 'ya, they just need a good bender to let off steam before they bring any problems home'.
> 
> So we should allow our troops to unwind and 'blow off steam' in some other country and have them clean up the mess left behind as opposed to having the mess made here in Canada? Basically, a CF version of Canadian teens trashing hotels and resorts across the Carribean every spring break....you know, just to let off steam.
> 
> ...



Piper you have no clue.... And your right "something you have never come close to doing"  is all you know.   Hey I have and idea, how bout you do 6 mths stint like they did and come back here and state that its not an excuse.

I dont know why this post just pissed me off so much, but i hope some drunk vet comes home and punches you out


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## Disenchantedsailor (6 May 2007)

Wesley (Finally Home Down Under) said:
			
		

> There are more important things to report in the news than a few' pissed up lads' creating a disturbance, which as been, yes you guessed it, hijacked by the media, and no doubt twisted to get ratings.
> 
> Bruises and scratches are nothing, even on a Cypriot Copper. If it was worse, say broken bones, or involving a knife, etc, yes then its newsworthy, but on page 99 of a 100 page paper.
> 
> ...



Except when those "pissed up lads" represent thier nation, the military must be held to a higher standard than civilians, just as are cops it is important for a society to see only good things, now the bad will come, but when a soldier F$$%$%^$% up in a foreign country they require disciplinary action, and public, regardeless of the outcome reprimand, small fine, whatever. The public needs to know that our military is carrying out thier will in the most profesional manner


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## KevinB (6 May 2007)

FWIW -- remember too that Cypriot cops are not always like cops back home.
  I've seen Greek Cypriot police grab UN soldiers and jump them in a group.  I've also seen them hold up people at knife point for money.

I'm am also firm beleiver in the occassional need for a medicinal bender.


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## Disenchantedsailor (6 May 2007)

I'm not saying the odd drunk isn't uncalled for, lord knows I'm guilty, but mine doesn't make into the paper. And I've been to some pretty shady places (Manilla)


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## KevinB (6 May 2007)

Yes but keep in the back of your mind that it made the news briefly what not a headliner - and the only reason it keeps getting dredged up is morbid curiousity or malicious intent.  Secondly also keep in mind that Cypriot police are not angles -- and the guys in Kandahar went from getting in gun fights with ANP occassionally, to Cyprus -- so the distrust of local LE is to be expected.


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## Disenchantedsailor (6 May 2007)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> From article
> If the soldiers were charged (with drunkenness, resisting arrest and assault on a police officer) and brought before a judge in Cyprus (which happens very quickly) then there is the potential for Double Jeopardy should their unit decide to apply NDA.  Any follow-up back in Canada will most likely be administrative in nature.


Theres always RW, and C&P the reprecussions back home need not be disciplinary to be a wake up call


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## armyvern (6 May 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> Theres always RW, and C&P the reprecussions back home need not be disciplinary to be a wake up call



I always find comments such as this amusing. 

My own personal preference would be to take the charge ie the Summary Trial. Why? I am of the personal opinion that this "disciplinary action" is the lesser of two evils. After all, your conduct sheet will rid itself of NDA129 convictions etc eventually. It is noted on your annual PER and then you soldier on.

Anybody who doesn't consider "Adminstrative action" to be a wake-up call, needs a BIG wake-up call because it's the "Administrative actions" that usually come back to bite you in the ass because those "Administrative" actions, on the other hand, remain on your file for career (apparently, though, they do not have any effect upon that career!!   ). Strike one (verbal), two (recorded), three (C&P)....bye bye. End of career. And hey, they can skip a strike if they want to!!

Nah, I'll stick with the charge anytime. Just my .02 cents worth.


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## 3rd Herd (6 May 2007)

Seems to me the occasional medicinal bender is the way to go. But not only me, it seems recently those countries that did/ do allow have a extremely lower rate of non PTSD/Battle stress injuries. If it gets out of hand as indicated earlier there is always the RSM. As to the higher moral standard that argument is wearing kind of thin these days.


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## riggermade (6 May 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> I always find comments such as this amusing.
> 
> My own personal preference would be to take the charge ie the Summary Trial. Why? I am of the personal opinion that this "disciplinary action" is the lesser of two evils. After all, your conduct sheet will rid itself of NDA129 convictions etc eventually. It is noted on your annual PER and then you soldier on.
> 
> ...



Vern

I have to agree with you, take the charge and your punishment and carry on.  Administrative action dogs you for your career while if you take the charge and punishment for a good soldier it is the only wake up call needed and I know many an excellent soldier who are RSM's etc who have been charged for minor offences in their career but took the lesson and soldiered on


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