# Submarine Trades



## 30 for 30

Do sailors in the Canadian Navy have to volunteer/compete for submarine service, or can one be posted to a sub in the normal course of a career?


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## CallOfDuty

Hey good question...I was wondering that too!


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## Cloud Cover

They're forced inside the subs at gun point, towed out to sea and then cast off with 2 maps- one to the AO and one to get home. 

Of course it volunteer... you have to pass a pressure test, amongst other things. I failed it...  my ears friggin' near imploded.


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## NCRCrow

and a limited amount of trades also.......


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## hugh19

Hey whiskey would that be a amphibious submarine then? Maps are used on land. Real sailors use charts. ;D


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## NavyShooter

Submarine service is no longer just volunteer, however, volunteers are accepted.

I was "screened" for sub service two years ago (non-voluntary) and was lucky, my left eardrum ain't in such good shape (thin inner membrane, likely to burst if I did the Wet Escape Pressure Testing.  **UNFIT**

If you're Voluntold to go subs, you have a 2 year tour to complete before you're allowed to get out of the world.  That's two years AFTER The completion of your sub training package, and earn your dolphins.

Now, that said, lots of folks I know love being in 'boats' as the atmosphere is somewhat different than surface ships.  More individual responsibility and such.

NavyShooter


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## Cloud Cover

sledge said:
			
		

> Hey whiskey would that be a amphibious submarine then? Maps are used on land. Real sailors use charts. ;D



My God, I've been transformed into a lubber!!!!

I'm curious as to when the policy was put in place to impress people into the subs - is it just for certain trades? I volunteered as a Mar El, I don't ever recall being told that that they could actually post a non-volunteer to the subs. Of course, that was a long time ago and we were all trying to get in for the money, [they paid us next to nothing in those days.] 

It was my ears that gave trouble as well- couldn't equalize pressure.


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## 30 for 30

Anyone know if NES OPs are able to serve on subs?


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## NCRCrow

NO NESOPS SINCE 1996


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## Strike

I remember when it was first announced that women would be allowed to serve on subs, I was asked by the media what my opinion was.  I told them they were all crazy -- men and women alike.  Who would want to serve in a sub with a rack that is smaller in volume than an issue sleeping bag?  (Not quite that bad, but it might as well be).    ;D ;D ;D

I have enough problems sharing a tent with a bunch of guys for a week.  I can imagine the smell in a sub...gross.


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## Cloud Cover

Strike said:
			
		

> I remember when it was first announced that women would be allowed to serve on subs, I was asked by the media what my opinion was.   I told them they were all crazy -- men and women alike.   Who would want to serve in a sub with a rack that is smaller in volume than an issue sleeping bag?   (Not quite that bad, but it might as well be).      ;D ;D ;D
> 
> I have enough problems sharing a tent with a bunch of guys for a week.   I can imagine the smell in a sub...gross.



No hot bunking in army or army aviation, eh?

For me, I wanted to go on the Subs for the extra pay for what i foolishly thought was the same amount of work and risk. [don't forget our ships back then were not exactly modern or well protected]. Also, the gov't was planning on acquiring a whole fleet of SSN's at the time, and after i had a tour of the USS Indianapolis [a 680 class], I was hooked. It looked so huge, and had more firepower potential than our whole squadron.  But alas, it was never to happen for moi.    

I remember a Delta on the surface back in 1986- it was a monster of a boat, just as long as our DDE [if not longer] probably 5 or 6 times our tonnage.  We were very close to it, with regular glasses we could clearly see the expressions on the faces of the few crew members topside as the EW guys were snapping as many pics of them and the boat as they could get away with. I wonder if those guys volunteered for the racket they found themsleves in, and whether it was worth it for them.


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## Ex-Dragoon

> Also, the gov't was planning on acquiring a whole fleet of SSN's at the time, and after i had a tour of the USS Indianapolis [a *680 * class]



Pssssst 688 class...680 was part of the Sturgeon class(long hull) and the 680 was the USS William H Bates. Sowwy had to jump in there.


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## Cloud Cover

Yes, you're right. Thanks.


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## Cloud Cover

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Sowwy had to jump in there.



And whats with this? *^*  Into the liquor cabinet again eh?


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## Navalsnpr

Best way to say it is that if you trade has enough personnel on Subs & in the training system to qualify, it will be voluntarily for that trade.
If subs are undermanned in a specific trade, then that trade may be voluntold.


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## Ex-Dragoon

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> And whats with this? *^*   Into the liquor cabinet again eh?



Hey! I rememble that remark...I only had one drink tonight    or so....


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## buckahed

Subs became a regular posting in 1988 shortly after the boats had to be tied up for lack of qualified people. Manning was a real mess in the mid-eighties. It actually happened to people that as soon as their boat tied up from a cruise, they were ordered to grab their kit, trot down the jetty to get on the next boat so it could put to sea. I was lucky, it only happened to me once.

Not that I am bitter, but I will never forget the squadron meeting called in late 86 so an admiral and his posse from Ottawa could order us to stop complaining, they had the proof that the average posting to subs was 18 months. There was four of us PO's sitting in a row that all had over 5 years straight time on the boats. I was standing 1 in 5 home port duty watches at the time, we were so short of qualified stokers, so when my career mangler told me later that afternoon that he had no idea when I could expect a posting out of the sub sqadron, I started working up my release letter.

Spring of 88, the fecal matter hit the rotary air impeller, couple of court martials, it went public, the boats got tied up for a while, some brass got shuffled to desk jobs, the navy bought a habour queen from  the brits for training, and subs became non-voluntary.


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## NCRCrow

then the Marsaw years....pay freezes....morale at a all time high......the early nineties ruled :blotto:


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## mdh

Sorry guys, just a bit of history for me - Marsaw was the sub commander chap who was - how shall we say - controversial???   ??? I seem to recall other vague details but I'm reluctant to state them out loud in case I'm wrong.


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## TCBF

Let me get this straight.  You take a Brit Centurian tank, stretch it out 200 feet, plug up most of the holes, fill it full of junk, then press gang some hillbillies into it at sabre-point, and drive it into the ocean.  Oh yeah, I left out the part where it has lots of batteries and other electrical stuff.  Anyone who has been aound an Austin Mini/MGB/Ferret/Scimitar knows how they do electrics.

 ;D

You submariners got more balls than a ten pound bag of number 9 shot.

Tom


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## NavyShooter

All I know about Marsaw (note, I am not in boats) is that he was described as the one person who many people would trust to "Always get back to the surface."  

Despited the contreversy, hunger strike, and publicity, he was apparently respected by some.

NS


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## buckahed

!!!!Warning, middle aged nostalgia!!!!!  not that this will make a lot of sense to most people, but you can blame HFXcrow for getting me started  :

You just had to remind me of Deano Marsaw, didn't you? I only knew him as a junior officer. He was well respected...by his seniors. Those of equal or lower rank had a much different opinion of him. I have no doubt that he would always make it back to the surface. The question always was would he bother to bring anybody else back with him. 

Full disclosure. I never had a problem with Marsaw. That's because at the time the stokers were insulated by a very senior CERA that nobody in the navy (especially Marsaw) was dumb enough to mess with.

Oh boy, that brings up the memories. Off the top of my head.

 At the time the pay was pretty good for a single guy. P2 stoker with spec pay, sub pay and 9 years sea time increment when I had 11 years in. Not to mention the subsistance allowance and hotel rooms provided in foreign ports because no one was allowed to live on the boats in port really helped with the run ashore budget.

 The reaction when the feminist commission decreed women were allowed to serve everywhere except on subs. What they put in the official report sure wasn't what they said when they toured the boats.

Escape tower training in Gosport and  living in the Crimean war barracks. Do they still send sputs to dolphin for tower training? Does the RN still put Aussies and Canucks together in the "Colonial class" and expect to not have trouble?

Being under RN control for three months where every RN ship in the exercise  breaks down at precisely 1500 every Friday afternoon and we got sent to spend the weekend in some horrible bed and breakfast in some dumpy little British seaport noone had ever heard of. The only items on the breakfast menu, runny beans with bangers, fried tomatoes and fried toast. Unless you were in Scotland, then you could get cold deepfried pizza and deep fried Mars bars leftover from the night before.

English curries when the pubs close and you are sailing the next morning. Spending the next two days wondering which end to point at the head, too weak to kill yourself or the supposed winger that said, "Try it, you'll like it."

Being a training boat and getting orders from the Teacher to be creatively incompetent to give the trainee RN captains good training time. Like we needed encouragement.

Sticky Buns the cook/canteen manager getting permission to store a couple of hundred cases of English hard scrumpy cider in one of the aft trim tanks. Surface transit home, every time we rolled, you could hear the cans exploding. I wonder if they ever managed to get the smell out of Onondaga's aft ends.

Sailing from Halifax in February when it was so cold the harbour steamed up so you couldn't see Dartmouth and heaving to a day later for a swimex  in the Gulf Stream.

Being on watch in the Engine room nursing the diesels when the sea water cooling temps go from 34F to 78F in a half hour.

Watching one of your engine room crew sitting down on one of the cylinder heads of a running V16 supercharged diesel  and knowing that despite the noise, heat and vibration the kid would be sound asleep in 30 seconds.

Tying up next to a nuke boat in Rosy Roads and having a dozen Yank Chuffs and Puffs camped out in our mess for two days trying to drink our bar dry.  Still got the USN ditty bag (real nice white nylon. much better than our red naugahyde issue) and most of the shinies they stuffed it with for thank you presents. 

Sailing under a shell shocked Aussie that got press ganged out of his exchange shore billet when we ran short of skippers.

Sailing with 6 homesick Aussie sputs on workups. That was one of Ottawa's better strokes of genius. Two boats on high intensity ops covering for the third in midlife refit, the training system bogged down, barely enough qualified people to go round, and Ottawa offers six training slots every six months to the Australians. You can imagine what kind of training they got.

Coming back from workups and having a quarter of the crew posted off that day.

The night I got yanked off a duty watch and press gangs were sent out to grab everybody still in the dockyard wearing dolphins to get the Oka-no-go to sea for a SAR. Getting turned around after a couple hours because it was a false alarm. 

The day a skipper who shall remain nameless lost the bubble completely. One eye glued to the periscope, white knuckled death grip on the handles, shaking with rage and screaming foul obsceneties at the trainee Sea King crew happily dunking their sonar 1500 yards off with no idea where we were. He did have a bit of an excuse though. We had spent the previous half hour starting a snort with both engines running, raised all masts and periscopes, turned on the collision avoidance light and even broached the boat to the surface trying to get their attention. Doing training ops for newbie aircrews and skimmer sonarmen was just so much fun I was a bit disappointed the XO convinced the skipper that chasing after the Sea King to fire flares at them was not a good idea.

The year you could not go to Stad wearing dolphins without that jerk base chief writing you up for something. Trying not to laugh as he dressed me down for not replacing my ID card when I grew a mustache. I had seen the notice from ID office that cards would not be replaced for mustaches, only full beards and I knew the sub squadron cox'n was tossing the writeups in the gash without reading them.

Watching one of those interchangable MND's tour the Obejoyfull wearing a work dress jacket and white turtleneck sweater a few months after skimmer command issued a rather nasty order specifically forbidding submariner's from wearing white turtleneck sweaters.

Doing a "tourist to the bridge" after the mids on a surface transit when the wake glows for a mile back and the Milky way is a solid white bar across the sky.

I loved the life but I'm glad I got out when I did. I was burnt out. They burnt out a lot of people but they don't seem to have learned any lessons from it.


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## mdh

Great post Buckahed! - sounds like a combination of Das Boot and the Gulag Archipelago -   - post more if you're in the mood,

cheers, mdh


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## NCRCrow

a tear rolls down this skimmer pukes face.......

The skimmer navy runs u dry from the constant cycle of SRI's,Weapon Certs,WUPS,Trials,Missile Shoot, Depolyment, de-store, Refit, restore and lets do it all again, with a new Skippper. Add in a couple voluntold TD's.

Courses are a break!!!

....and then your DO gets all crusty, when u try to go ashore after 10 years of the this sh^t.

this EW is almost done.


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## TCBF

Ask for a posting with us at CMTC - Wainwright is about as 'Shore' as you can get.



Tom


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## NCRCrow

in my prior life (ere Navy), I enjoyed RV 89 at beautiful Camp Wainwright complete with caterpillars and weird weather and of course the bus ride into Edmonton for 48's and the Cadillac Ranch....


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## 30 for 30

So I'm guessing MARS officers can be "voluntold" to serve on subs?


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## Navalsnpr

RNW said:
			
		

> So I'm guessing MARS officers can be "voluntold" to serve on subs?



I wouldn't assume that. One of the MARS types here would be able to better answer that question. Like all trades, it depends if they have enough volunteers.


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## Monsoon

RNW said:
			
		

> So I'm guessing MARS officers can be "voluntold" to serve on subs?


Could be, but I gather there are enough volunteers that it's not necessary to force people to serve on subs.  Now, that's not to say they'll let you off easily once you get tired of being there...


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## squidink

Can anyone out there provide some info on the subject of submarine service?

I've been browsing the forums sections over and over and up and down and it looks like all of an NCMs initial training is completed on a surface vessel.  So, if I were hoping to serve on one of the refurbished subs then how much surface service is required before I can get into the sub-surface service?

Additionally, during your IE will you be asked if you prefer West or East coast or will they ask you specifically about the type of vessel that you'd be interested in working on?  I'd originally thought that the Navy would find you a place where they need you. A choice almost sounded too good to be true ...

I've passed BMQ and am engaging 2 years of Electronics Engineering and I could use some experienced guidance. I'm working with an Army unit (I'm landlocked) while waiting on school to start. My ULO is a former Operator of some sort from the West coast (now Army) and had a totally different entry plan, so I'm not getting much through him.

I'm not used to riding blind because I usually have a plan, but so far so good ...  help?    iper:  where to go???

squid


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## aesop081

squidink said:
			
		

> I'd originally thought that the Navy would find you a place where they need you.



The military will send you where you are needed. This is the over-riding factor. If it happens to coincide with your desire than everyone is happy. If that's not the case than so be it as well.

Yiu can choose location "A" all you want, if there is no positions available there, you're going to location "B".


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## Lex Parsimoniae

What trade are you?  Are you in the regular force or reserves?


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## Lex Parsimoniae

Stacked said:
			
		

> I'm at BMQ right now as a Sonar Op.  I'm hoping to go subs as well.  I was told to just make that fact known during my QL3. I'm pretty sure the requirements are set trade by trade.


SONAR Operators and some MSE tech trades (IIRC - it's Mar Eng Mech and Mar El) can come down as OS now.  Remainder is still at the LS level.


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## Springroll

> So, if I were hoping to serve on one of the refurbished subs then how much surface service is required before I can get into the sub-surface service?



Surface service is not required before going subs. 



> Additionally, during your IE will you be asked if you prefer West or East coast or will they ask you specifically about the type of vessel that you'd be interested in working on?



Yes they will ask you what coast you prefer and what vessel you would like to go to on your QL3 course, but that is no guarantee on where you will be sent. They will send you where they need you.


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## squidink

Lex Parsimoniae said:
			
		

> What trade are you?  Are you in the regular force or reserves?



I'm enlisted as NE Tech (Comm) RegF and that trade may change with the 'amalgamation' that we all keep hearing about. Needless to say, a ship is a ship and needs its electronics techs. So many of the Officers (referencing the ship's bios on the Forces site) that take command of the subs look like they have a lot of surface experience and/or international educations that it just made me think that an NCM would have to have served in a similar routing, or well at least had some of the surface going deployment time before going sub-surface, just not the lengthy education.



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> Yes they will ask you what coast you prefer and what vessel you would like to go to on your QL3 course, but that is no guarantee on where you will be sent. They will send you where they need you.



As an NCM SEP do I not skip my QL3 package?


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## squidink

Stacked said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure the requirements are set trade by trade.



I appreciate the help Stacked, but that's only tuning the vagueness up a few notches for me... kind of like boot black before you spit it up for polishing    How's your BMQ? I graduated the same platoon as kmcneil.

Keep that rifle oiled!   :warstory:


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## Sub Standard

squidink said:
			
		

> I'm enlisted as NE Tech (Comm) RegF and that trade may change with the 'amalgamation' that we all keep hearing about. Needless to say, a ship is a ship and needs its electronics techs. So many of the Officers (referencing the ship's bios on the Forces site) that take command of the subs look like they have a lot of surface experience and/or international educations that it just made me think that an NCM would have to have served in a similar routing, or well at least had some of the surface going deployment time before going sub-surface, just not the lengthy education.
> 
> As an NCM SEP do I not skip my QL3 package?



As it stand right now all NETs need to be QL5 qualified before they can come to submarines.  They do not have to do a surface equipment package after the 5s academics they will go directly to BSQ and subs trades training.  There is talk of doing the LS rank qual on subs after the trade changes over in Sept but I haven't seen anything on that yet or on which billet would be down graded for that spot.  Hope this helps.


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## squidink

It does.  Thanks for the help!


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## wesleyd

squidink said:
			
		

> Can anyone out there provide some info on the subject of submarine service?
> 
> I've been browsing the forums sections over and over and up and down and it looks like all of an NCMs initial training is completed on a surface vessel.  So, if I were hoping to serve on one of the refurbished subs then how much surface service is required before I can get into the sub-surface service?
> 
> Additionally, during your IE will you be asked if you prefer West or East coast or will they ask you specifically about the type of vessel that you'd be interested in working on?  I'd originally thought that the Navy would find you a place where they need you. A choice almost sounded too good to be true ...
> 
> I've passed BMQ and am engaging 2 years of Electronics Engineering and I could use some experienced guidance. I'm working with an Army unit (I'm landlocked) while waiting on school to start. My ULO is a former Operator of some sort from the West coast (now Army) and had a totally different entry plan, so I'm not getting much through him.
> 
> I'm not used to riding blind because I usually have a plan, but so far so good ...  help?    iper:  where to go???
> 
> squid


Once you get to the fleet school as the Div PO/MS to contact the career manager regarding submarine service. It is constantly changing based on manning requirements. Most trades are LS QL5 minimum standard with the exception of (Mar Eng and Mar El this may have changed as well). Whenever you have your annual career managers interview express your desire to go boats, he will make a note on your file and also give you the most up to date requirments. I spend my first ten years in the navy on the O boats it was the time of my life. Best of luck.


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## squidink

No time no check!

Thanks for the tip, wes d!  I do appreciate it and will keep that in mind.


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## Eaglelord17

I have always been curious in submarine service and was wondering the implications it could have on your career. I have looked around and for a marine engineer it looks as though you only need to be QL3 qualified (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5003-7-eng.asp). I understand that when you are looking to apply for it you mention it on your QL3 to your CoC. Does becoming a submariner effect your career progression? Do your duties differ much from what you would be doing on a surface ship? Also if at sea would it just be coastal patrol or would it be like the frigates where you can travel around the world? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks


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## Sub Standard

It could slow you down a little bit, since you would have to do a BSQ course and and sail to finish off your bsq ojt along with an AMOC qualification.  However VICTORIA has had a few OS Mar Engs onboard during this RIMPAC deployment and all of them seem to have enjoyed it.  As for the travel VICTORIA has spent the last 2 months in Hawaii and may go farther next year.


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## Eaglelord17

Do submariners have a different career progression (in terms of courses besides the BSQ), such as a different QL5 etc. or is it the same as the surface ships after the BSQ? Also if the subs aren't running what do they have you do for training, would you be able to do something like a exchange with a another nation (such as Australia and work on there subs) or is it just sitting around waiting for them to be fixed?


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## Pat in Halifax

Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> Do submariners have a different career progression (in terms of courses besides the BSQ), such as a different QL5 etc. or is it the same as the surface ships after the BSQ? Also if the subs aren't running what do they have you do for training, would you be able to do something like a exchange with a another nation (such as Australia and work on there subs) or is it just sitting around waiting for them to be fixed?


Your QL3, 5, 6 and 7 for the MAR ENG (MOSID 00367) trade are generic and were initially Halifax Class centric but individual instructors have varied content to meet the audience requirements while remaining within the confines of QSPs. That said, 'class' courses generally follow QL5 and 6. I am not in the submarine world but did spend MUCH time at MSE Div at CFNES. As for what do you do when boats aren't running (in DWP), if you are seeking a qual, your unit 'should' do everything to AP you to an operational unit (through the PCC of course). That is not always possible though so you may find yourself at the FMF or School or MOG. Make the best of it and use your time wisely. You can still work on a qual (at least some reqs) even if you don't set foot near a sub.
One of the submariners on here can elaborate a little more I am sure.

Pat


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## drunknsubmrnr

> However VICTORIA has had a few OS Mar Engs onboard during this RIMPAC deployment and *all of them seem to have enjoyed it*.



Wow...qualification has changed. A lot.


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## Tyson Fox

Yo, I was wondering a few things about submarine service. If I'm a Navcomm and try to get posted on a submarine after my 3's, is there much chance of that happening, or are the east coast submarines pretty well crewed? If I do get posted to them, have they even started going out regularly or are they still in drydock? As well, how would my QL4 package be completed? Would I still have to go on heavies to get that signed off? As well any insight as to what it's like on Basic Submarine Qualification and submarine Navcomms would be appreciated. I couldn't find much on these forums.


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## Sub Standard

Shipwreck said:
			
		

> Yo, I was wondering a few things about submarine service. If I'm a Navcomm and try to get posted on a submarine after my 3's, is there much chance of that happening, or are the east coast submarines pretty well crewed? If I do get posted to them, have they even started going out regularly or are they still in drydock? As well, how would my QL4 package be completed? Would I still have to go on heavies to get that signed off? As well any insight as to what it's like on Basic Submarine Qualification and submarine Navcomms would be appreciated. I couldn't find much on these forums.



I am not completely certain but I believe NavComs still need to be QL5 qualified before they come to subs.  As to what the boats are doing WINDSOR is currently the only boat on the east coast right now and she is getting ready for her camber dive and trial right now.  VICTORIA just got back from sea this week and will continue sailing a lot more next year. They are also in the process of trying to crew up CHICOUTIMI right now as well.


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## Pat in Halifax

You might want to pose the question under the NavCom sub heading in the Naval Trades thread and recommend too, you dispense with 'Yo' as an address. You could have left the word out and some may have given you direct answers already but I know for me, I ignored your question initially because of it.


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## Tyson Fox

Meh, if a greeting gives someone that amount of disdain for me, I'm probably not interested in speaking with them either.


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## Kat Stevens

op:


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## Steve_D

Shipwreck said:
			
		

> Meh, if a greeting gives someone that amount of disdain for me, I'm probably not interested in speaking with them either.



"Meh" & "Yo" are not very professional. I am pretty sure that the submariners prefer professionals on their subs.  I agree with Pat, it gives the completely wrong first impression.  I also suggest that you drop the attitude if you wish to have a career as a professional.

Yes! I overused the word "professional" for a reason.

 :remembrance:


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## Tyson Fox

Steve_D said:
			
		

> "Meh" & "Yo" are not very professional.
> 
> :remembrance:



I couldn't agree more there, Steve, but you must realize that when people leave work for the day, they're going to start using more colloquial terms in speech, especially in relaxed environments, like an internet forum. It has little bearing on one's work performance, and to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.


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## JorgSlice

Tell that to the guy who got hunted down and fired from his job, because he "offended" someone on an internet forum.


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## Tyson Fox

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/10/16/calgary-airdrie-woman-website-comment.html

You mean this guy? A man who used profanity and expressed contentment that an innocent girl died? You're right in the sense that, my comments, taken out of context, could apply to one of the more extreme scenarios such as what you referenced. Only on milnet.ca is using slang treated like rejoicing over a teenager's suicide.


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## cupper

Shipwreck said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree more there, Steve, but you must realize that when people leave work for the day, they're going to start using more colloquial terms in speech, especially in relaxed environments, like an internet forum. It has little bearing on one's work performance, and to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.



When I see people online using "Meh" and "Yo", I immediately start to tune the person out. It comes across as lazy, disinterested, and in some cases disrespectful. It gives the perception that the person is not able to form a simple coherent statement. Same with people that want to inject "like" between every other word in each sentence. Umm just makes them sound unintelligent. My high school physics teacher, who happened to be a Cdr in the Naval Reserve, whenever a student inserted umm into a sentence would start his reply with "What does momentum have to do with it?


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## Tyson Fox

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/40408/whats-the-origin-of-yo

Interesting read at that link on a word that you all seem to be in the fog about. You can also find it in the Oxford Dictionary, and it's been around from at least Shakespeare's time. Sure, "meh" was coined by The Simpsons, but if that word is riling you guys up so much, how do you survive in the armed forces where slang and crude jargon are abound? I won't list how many words I've figured out you can compound with **** or **** since I've joined. I'll tell you what makes people sound unintelligent to me, personally, and that is holier-than-thou attitudes over extremely trivial details.


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## Shamrock

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=yo

Thanks for pointing me towards that - I would have never known. 

But back to your last question, surely you've witnessed the curmudgeons who seem to use their position and rank to be little more than 'no' dispensaries. Resisting change is an assessment factor, dontcha know.


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## Pat in Halifax

Shipwreck, you asked a question and I took the time to offer two suggestions; neither of which you have decided to take advantage of (by the looks of this and the NavCom thread). You're right, it's the internet, you can say what you want in any manner you wish. But, again, it is the internet and many like me, who probably would have been willing to help out will now simply walk away from this. Good luck.

Pat


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## Tank Troll

When I spent some time with the 3/7th US Cav back in the cold war days they would answer "Yo" in stead of sir or Sgt when roll was being called, seems it was a Calvary tradition in the US. Other Army units not so much.


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## Pat in Halifax

Against my better judgement because I feel an obligation to assist, look here on the DIN:
http://halifax.mil.ca/N1/CFNOS/Submarines/Index.html
Recommend you notify your CoC and let them know you have some questions. There is a NavCom contact on the "Contact Us" link.
Again, good luck and good night!

Pat


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## Tyson Fox

That'll be helpful, actually, and I didn't post another topic because I think the Navcomm board is not as frequented as here. I got a message from a would-be submariner and I'm not positive yet, but I think Navcomm's need to be 5's qualified to be on subs.

I'll give the link a look after lunch, thanks.


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## Tortilla

I am interested in becoming a submariner.  Is this a competitive selection process?  What sort of screening would I have to undertake? Are the standards different than other positions in the navy?


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## soldier07

Tortilla said:
			
		

> I am interested in becoming a submariner.  Is this a competitive selection process?  What sort of screening would I have to undertake? Are the standards different than other positions in the navy?



it's quite an old issue. it might be better to try to open a new topic.


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## mariomike

soldier07 said:
			
		

> it's quite an old issue.



The post of January 17, 2018 keeps the issue "fresh".



			
				soldier07 said:
			
		

> it might be better to try to open a new topic.




We use this Sticky as a guideline,
https://army.ca/forums/threads/87278.0.html

From the Site Owner,



			
				Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> We do encourage topics to be posted into existing threads where possible. When someone comes along well after the fact it's typically better to find one mega thread with all pertinent discussion than many scattered threads. Sometimes there can be many, many scattered threads, and a simple search then turns into a laborious task to research all available results.


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## Sub Standard

Tortilla said:
			
		

> I am interested in becoming a submariner.  Is this a competitive selection process?  What sort of screening would I have to undertake? Are the standards different than other positions in the navy?


A lot will depend on what trade you are, not all trades are represented on subs.  There is also a submarine medical to pass.  DAOD 5003-7 is the reference.

"Eligible CF members who wish to serve in submarines may make this known to their CO at any time.

Career managers compile lists of CF members who wish to serve in submarines and process an application when the eligibility requirements are met by a CF member. Should there be insufficient CF members willing to serve in submarines to fill the vacancies, DGMC selects other eligible CF members in accordance with instructions issued by or on behalf of the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS)."


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## Journeyman

Sub-normal said:
			
		

> "Should there be insufficient CF members willing to serve in submarines to fill the vacancies, DGMC selects other eligible CF members in accordance with instructions issued by or on behalf of the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS)."


Before Admin Order writers were paid by the word-count, that would read "impressment" (or "press gang.")     ;D


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## Eye In The Sky

Sub-normal said:
			
		

> A lot will depend on what trade you are, not all trades are represented on subs.  There is also a submarine medical to pass.  DAOD 5003-7 is the reference.
> 
> "Eligible CF members who wish to serve in submarines may make this known to their CO at any time.
> 
> Career managers compile lists of CF members who wish to serve in submarines and process an application when the eligibility requirements are met by a CF member. Should there be insufficient CF members willing to serve in submarines to fill the vacancies, DGMC selects other eligible CF members in accordance with instructions issued by or on behalf of the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS)."



I'll assume the poster isn't in the RCN or even the CAF...so to start here is the basic info on what a DAOD is.

*Department of National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces corporate administrative direction is set out in the comprehensive collection of Defence Administrative Orders and Directives (DAOD) that are issued by or under the authority of the Deputy Minister and the Chief of the Defence Staff

*
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5003-7.page  (this DAOD is old, Date of Issue: 2002-12-06.  Some of the trade names may have/did change).

2.1 There is an ongoing requirement for CAF members to serve in submarines. The submarine service offers a challenge to CAF members who wish to experience a lifestyle which is adventurous, demanding and responsible. However, living and working conditions on board a submarine are less comfortable than those on board surface ships, and each member of a submarine crew is required to perform many out-of-occupation duties associated with operational requirements in addition to normal military occupation duties.

Eligible Occupations

3.1 CAF members of the following military occupations are eligible for submarine duty:
a.Maritime Surface and Sub-Surface (MARS 71B, 71C, 71D);
b.Maritime Engineer (Marine Systems) (MARE MS 44B);
c.Maritime Engineer (Combat Systems) (MARE CS 44C);
d.Naval Weapons Technician (NW Tech 065);
e.Naval Combat Information Operator (NCI Op 275);
f.Naval Communicator (Nav Comm 277);
g.Tactical Acoustic Sensor Operator (TAS Op 278);
h.Naval Electronics Technician (Acoustic) (NE Tech (A) 283);
i.Naval Electronics Technician (Communications) (NE Tech (C) 284);
j.Naval Electronics Technician (Tactical) (NE Tech (T) 285);
k.Naval Electronics Technician (Manager) (NE Tech (M) 286), only with prior submarine experience as NE Tech (A) 283, NE Tech (C) 284 or NE Tech (T) 285;
l.Maritime Engineering Mechanic (Mar Eng Mech 312);
m.Maritime Engineering Technician (Mar Eng Tech 313);
n.Maritime Engineering Artificer (Mar Eng Art 314);
o.Electrical Technician (E Tech 331);
p.Marine Electrician (Mar El 332);
q.Medical Assistant (Med A 711);
r.Cook 861; and
s.Steward (Stwd 862).

Eligibility Requirements

4.1 To be accepted for submarine duty, a CAF member must:
a.have a minimum English language profile of BAB;
b.be medically and dentally fit to the standard set out in A-MD-154-000/FP-000, Medical Standards for the Canadian Forces;
c.except for those on a basic engagement, have at least three years remaining in their current term of service at the time of commencing submarine duty;
d.pass a pressure tolerance test; and
e.have the applicable qualification as set out below: [see website for table]

Qualifications

4.5 Non-commissioned members (NCMs) not previously qualified are required to attend the naval environment training program at the Canadian Forces Naval Operations School at Halifax, prior to commencing basic submarine training.

4.6 The three-month basic submarine course is loaded by Director Maritime Training and Education (DMTE) and conducted at the Canadian Forces Naval Operations School Halifax for both officers and NCMs. On completion of basic training, CAF members follow a training profile designed for each particular military occupation. Total training time, including basic and military occupation specific training, may be five to fourteen months in duration. Candidates are attach-posted or posted depending on the military occupation, duration of training and other factors determined by the career manager. Upon successful completion of training, the prospective submariner will join a submarine for on-job training.

4.7 A CAF member trained and qualified by a foreign navy may submit a request to their CO to have the qualification considered equivalent to CAF standards. The CO shall send the request through the chain of command to D Mar Pers.

4.8 A CAF member who has successfully completed the on-board qualification in submarines is:
a.awarded the submarine badge; and
b.entitled to wear the badge for the remainder of the CAF career.


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## Psyentific

I am extremely interested in becoming a submariner, however, information is somewhat scarce. Right now I have applied to the Canadian Forces as a Sonar Op and am waiting on a job offer. I know what my immediate future is going to look like; first BMQ, then Naval Environment Training, then Sonar Op trade training. My intent is figure out what my life is going to look like as I transition into this lifestyle.

When does submarine training start, and what is it formally called? Are there any prerequisites? How long is it?
What does submarine qualification look like? Classes, on-the-boat training, both? Do they still haze qualies? It's my understanding that submariner qualification entails cross-training on every system of the boat. Is this correct?
The badge is still dolphins, I saw that from the CBC's article on the Chicoutimi. What's the tradition when you get your dolphins? I know the Americans drink theirs, do we do that or something else?
I've heard there's only one or two sonar ops on a Victoria-class. Is this correct? If so, would I be going on the boat as a rookie, fresh out of training?
How's the food? How long is a patrol? How often will I get to shower? How's the coffee, or is it energy drinks nowadays? Do they still pay us extra? If so, how much?

Are there any resources I can consult? Books, articles, anything?


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## SkelterHelter

Hi, Im hoping to get in the RCN. I was wondering if MarTechs are deployed on submarines and what qualifications are needed? All i found on a google search was they need trades that might necessarily be amalgamated as Mar Tech, at this point. Im wondering if Mar Techs need certain training to qualify for Submarine work, or if its the same as sailing on a ship?

Thanks


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## mariomike

SkelterHelter said:
			
		

> I was wondering if MarTechs are deployed on submarines and what qualifications are needed?



For reference to the discussion,

Marine Technician ( MARTECH )
https://army.ca/forums/threads/126825.0
3 pages.


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## Sub Standard

Yes Mar Techs are deployed on submarines and the can be posted to a boat on completion of the RQ OS phase of their training.  They can also spend their whole career in submarines.


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## SkelterHelter

Great. Thank you for the information.


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## brandon_sage92

Current submariner here, any questions?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Colin Parkinson

I have a couple

What's the current posting length of the sub crews?

What is morale like in your opinion across the sub community?

Are they struggling to find candidates or do people look forward to getting the postings?

Thanks


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