# Permethrin Uniform Treatment



## Szczep (9 May 2013)

Have there been any health problems connected with this product? It is illegal to use in Canada (or was illegal) but it was used on Uniforms over there.
I believe that medics were eventually tasked with treating the uniforms. 
Any concerns about the use of that product?  I have not seen it mentioned anywhere in my medical trial.
Is it going to be another 'agent orange' in the future? Or, there is nothing to worry about.


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## MikeL (9 May 2013)

Anytime I've had to have uniforms dipped,  it was dipped in Canada, and we did it ourselves - Medical pers didn't do it for us.



I haven't heard of any health issues from anyone who`s worn dipped clothing.  I just remember it being bad for you if you get some into your body(through you skin, or inhaling) while treating it.


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## Harris (9 May 2013)

When I went on tour in 2010 my uniforms were dipped by the medical staff at Stad.


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## Armymedic (9 May 2013)

There is no issues if you are wearing properly dried treat clothes.

Permethrin in liquid form is a neurotoxin, and get enough into you and it will do bad things to you, so avoid getting the liquid on your hands, and then eating a sandwich (its been done, I shit you not). Avoid breathing in the spray as well as do not handle the wet clothes without gloves.

Once it is dry, the chemical becomes harmless to humans as we do not absorb it readily.

It is also used as treatment for head lice.

Wiki has a pretty accurate article about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin

At the end of the day, the diseases we can contract from the bugs biting us is much, much worse than what the Permethrin can do.


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## Armymedic (9 May 2013)

BTW the direction is dipping of Cbt clothing is to be done under medical supervision, not By the medical people themselves.


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## GAP (9 May 2013)

> Once it is dry, the chemical becomes harmless to humans as we do not absorb it readily.



Once the uniform becomes wet while being worn, is there an increased rate of absorption?


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## MedCorps (9 May 2013)

GAP said:
			
		

> Once the uniform becomes wet while being worn, is there an increased rate of absorption?



There is no risk of absorption into the skin once the product initially dries, even if the uniform is then soaked with water / sweat / urine / blood.  The permethrin has been shown to remain fixed to the garment for 50 washings and then become ineffective due to natural break down. Dry cleaning will remove the permethrin, and that is the only process that will do it. A number of tests have been conducted to try and "unfix" the permethrin from the unifrom without any success other than dry cleaning by conventional means.  

The risk exists in the initial application when you have the 18 mL of liquid permethrin in the petroleum distillates.  Once the petroleum distillates evaporate (can the garment is dry) then the permethrin is fixed to the clothes.  That chemical smell you smell when you treat your uniform is the petroleum solvents (like the stuff used in dry cleaning).  The risk is from absorption through your skin / eyes / inhalation, or ingestion.  People have screwed it up (believe it or not).  

The med pers are there to watch to make sure that: 

1) you do it right and that the treated uniform will provide you protection
2) you wear the gloves, and ideally eye protection, that you are not smoking or eating and wash your hands when done 
3) you let it dry before taking your uniform 
4) to make sure that you dispose of used pouches / bottles / etc correctly and do not discard excess permethrin into sanitary sewers, storm drains, on the ground, or any other convenient place.

Permethrin save a lot of grief from the multiple vector-borne diseases caused by mosquitos.  

MC


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## PMedMoe (9 May 2013)

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> BTW the direction is dipping of Cbt clothing is to be done under medical supervision, not By the medical people themselves.



_Technically_, it should be done under the supervision of a PMed Tech since we have the pesticide licences.  



			
				MedCorps said:
			
		

> Permethrin save a lot of grief from the multiple vector-borne diseases caused by mosquitos.



And other biting flies.

Edit to add: Szczep, by looking at your posting history, I can see you're looking for a reason to blame something on military service.  Permethrin ain't gonna cut it, so go bark up another tree.


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## MikeL (9 May 2013)

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> so avoid getting the liquid on your hands, and then eating a sandwich (its been done, I crap you not).



No...  the safety brief we get at the start is pretty clear that this stuff is pretty nasty for people if it gets into their system.  I really don't want to believe someone would do that... but then again I'm not that surprised I guess after seeing some people do silly/stupid other things.


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## MedCorps (9 May 2013)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> And other biting flies.



This is also an important concept.  The permethrin also protects you from  crawling arthropods such as ticks, chigger mites, fleas and lice as well as the mosquitoes and biting flies as mentioned.  All of these things carry a number of diseases you just do not want to deal with. 

As an aside, there is one way to screw up the permethrin Individual Dynamic Absorption (IDA) Kit (pouch system).  One of the concepts is that the permethrin will bind to the uniform back of the fabric blend allows it to bind. We know it does bind very well to the combat tunic and pants. It does not bind well to the issued underwear, parts of the combat wide-brimmed hat, and various issued and non-issued combat t-shirts.  As such there would be a risk if someone (who obviously was not supervised by a PMed Tech) tried to treat these items as the petroleum solvent would evaporate and the permetherin may not be totally fixed to cloth item because of the fabric absorption qualities of the item.  As such, you then put on your combat undies and absorb the permetherin into your balls. This is bad.  

The moral.  The permethrin pouch system works, the risk is when applying it to the combat uniform, it is safe if used correctly, it saves lives and grief from vector-borne illnesses, and only treat your combat shirt (tunic) and pants as authorized. Use this product under the supervision of a PMed Tech who can answer all of your questions or concerns and you are good to go.  

Oh, and use this product as part of an overall personal vector-borne exposure reduction strategy such as DEET, sleeves down, aerosol permethrin arthropod repellent, bug nets, tick checks, etc, etc.  It is only part (yet a big part) of the overall solution to the biting bug problem.  

MC


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## medicineman (13 May 2013)

Szczep said:
			
		

> Have there been any health problems connected with this product? It is illegal to use in Canada (or was illegal) but it was used on Uniforms over there.
> I believe that medics were eventually tasked with treating the uniforms.
> Any concerns about the use of that product?  I have not seen it mentioned anywhere in my medical trial.
> Is it going to be another 'agent orange' in the future? Or, there is nothing to worry about.



You can buy permethrin impregnated bug jackets/nets, etc in most sporting goods stores.  If you buy chrysanthemums, you have a ready supply of pyrethrin (the natural version of permethrin) handy.  If you go and get Nix for scabies or lice, you're getting permethrin and applying directly onto the body...it's just in a different concentration.

The only uniforms I treated were my own...I did,  however have to supervise other folks doing it to THEIR uniforms.  And make sure they actually did it too...

MM


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## PMedMoe (13 May 2013)

medicineman said:
			
		

> The only uniforms I treated were my own...I did,  however have to supervise other folks doing it to THEIR uniforms.  And make sure they actually did it too...



Oh geez, if we're going by _quantity_, I'm way up there.  In Ottawa, we (PMed) treated the uniforms when I first got there.  Of course, I got that changed.  Apparently, it changed back after I left....   :

So, if there _were_ a danger in exposure, I'd be right up there on the top.  But there isn't.....


.....or at least, I haven't been diagnosed with anything.....

k:


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## Armymedic (13 May 2013)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> .....or at least, I haven't been diagnosed with anything.....
> 
> k:



That's only because the intellectually renown international medical symposium has not come up with a suitably translatable English diagnosis for the syndrome you have. 

You'll get the letter soon, Moe.


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