# Quality Differences amongst Units, re: Equipment



## ArmyBrat (24 Mar 2004)

Forgive me if this topic has already been covered, I have been monitoring this discussion forum for quite some time, but have just now registered.

I am an Army reservist with the Calgary Highlanders.  I‘d rather not give out my name for my own personal privacy,  however,  in recent months, I have noticed that - while our training with other local units has increased, so has the "quality of equipment" used by the various units.

In observation,  our entire unit was relatively shocked at the much higher quality equipment our unit, the Calgary Highlanders, was using,  in comparison to the 33rd Field Engineer Squadron, who we were conducting our exercise with.

A few examples of this equipment-inequality were the following:  We have half of our unit almost completely outfitted with CADPAT, minus the new recruits and personnel who have been in for less than a year.  Only their senior staff had CADPAT, none of whopping 2-sections worth of soldiers had any.

We have the new communications equipment,  actually received 2yrs ago.  (Short range tactical radios, the PRC-319 field radios, etc.)  However,  we were surprized to discover they were still using the OLD, OLD, OLD comms. equipment...the big old rusty comm. sets from the Vietnam type era.

And here is something that took us by major surprize.  Our unit has a fine collection of Iltis jeeps, and the required supporting logistical vehicles.  Some of the soldiers in the 33rd had forgotten what the Iltis was called...BECAUSE THEIR UNIT HAD NONE.  Now,  I know they are very practical for our purposes, as infantry...however, would they NOT be equally as practical for the FE‘s?

Also, and I‘m not sure if this is the same for regular force regiments too...but, they didn‘t have M203s.  I know the Engineers generally don‘t do a lot of direct action engagements, but...we were astonished to find them lacking M203s, Iltis jeeps, and the old olive drabs.

Anybody know more about this than I do?


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## Brent Cross (24 Mar 2004)

I have noticed on my BMQ course that the infantry recruits have a lot nicer kit than what we were issued at the 23 Svc Bn (eg: all new CadPat, new webbing, ruksacks, etc.).  Some of the artillery recruits are nicely outfitted as well?  Since they will be using their webbing/ruksacks a lot more than us in the Service Units, maybe that is why they were issued all new product?


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## Michael Dorosh (24 Mar 2004)

Dude, the Highlanders are infantry, so naturally we would have something of a priority on camouflage clothing.  Right after the staff clerks at Brigade!       You‘ll find though that our machine guns and rifles are a bit more battered than other units - why?  Because we use them in the field more.

The CADPAT thing may be just a fluke; the bottom line is that there aren‘t enough to go around.  In the Highlanders, the only ones to wear it were 3 Platoon of "A" Company because they were picked to go over to Bosnia.  They got the first issue.  When I acquired a set of CADPAT and wore it down in January 2003, I was told not to because no one but the CRIC platoon had it.  So I complied.  There was a partial issue in the spring of 2003, to guys of a certain size since that was the only sizes they got in.  Then we finally got our full basic issue this year.

As opposed to the Chicken Cannon crew on CBC who got theirs two years ago...        It‘s all about availability and limited funds.  You make do with what you get.  

Why would the lack of M203s in an engineer unit astonish you?  Firstly, they cost money, secondly, you never issue equipment to units that don‘t have the time to train with them, nor do units that don‘t have an operational requirement for them usually ask to have them issued.  I can‘t speak for the engineers, but if it was a case of getting engineering equipment or grenade launchers, I‘d likely take the new jackhammer every time.

Unfortunately, none of this stuff descends from the heavens or falls out of trees.  

The Iltis is another sore point.  If you total an Iltis, where do you get another one from?  The Army doesn‘t go to Value Village.  The Iltis is out of production.  Just like the old OD uniforms, you can‘t just exchange them anymore.  Once they‘re used up, that‘s it.  

In all honesty, some units may have taken to renting civvie vehicles for weekend exercises - they are more reliable especially if you are not off roading.  You‘ll notice pur unit always has a couple of crew cabs, either military or rented, out on exercise.   I drove an Ilits on the two Porcupine Hills exercises last year and the poor thing could barely get up some of the hills.  CSM kept telling me to shift into high gear on the level parts but that usually just made the engine die.  The rented trucks had no problems.  Since we are light infantry, we really didn‘t have to go anywhere that could have bogged or broken the vehicles.

In the final analysis - $$ is the answer to your questions.


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## Eowyn (24 Mar 2004)

Another thing to consider is the Calgary Highlanders are larger organization, so are entitled to more.


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## ArmyBrat (24 Mar 2004)

Thats very true,  the Calgary Highlanders are a MUCH larger unit.  The 33rd only had 2-sections worth of guys (Large sections, about 18per) - but still...small unit.

I had never worked with the Field Engineers before, and it just came as a slight surprize to us just how different our units were, in that regard.

And as for weapons, like the M203 - I thought they would have them also.  I know they are engineers, so they aren‘t a DA type unit, but...they can still get caught in a firefight sometime, so I thought they would have at least a few of them.  They were more interested in our "advanced technology" lol, than we were in their behind-the-times composition.

Here in the Calgary Highlanders, we have a fleet that are just dubbed "The Grey Ghosts".  A mixture of grey vans, F250 trucks, and some suburbans that we take out on Ex with us, and do general duties here around the armouries.


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## Eowyn (25 Mar 2004)

33 FES is an engineering squadron which is close to an Infantry Rifle Company in size.


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## RCA (25 Mar 2004)

M203 are not on the scale of issue to artillery units, beacuse there are not enough to go around. I imagine that appliesto the Recce and Engineers also. 

As to radios, we just received the 522 just recently, although we had the 521 before. We were using the old systems up to then. Its just lag time from supply to the units. And comms is critical to the Artillery and we still ahd to wait.

 As to unifiorms, that has nothing to do with size or function of units. It has to do with your supporting base, and getting mbrs out there and kitted out in CADPAT. There have been shortages in some sizes, but otherwise if you‘ve cpmpleted QL3 (MOC DP1) you are entiltled, its just a matter of going out and getting it.


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## andrewvalentine83 (25 Mar 2004)

Back when I was with 3FES, we had to borrow a C6 and Carl G from the local infantry unit because we didn‘t have any.  I guess when there‘s only so much money to go around, you have to spend it on what‘s most important.  And since we were engineers first, and infantry second, it makes sense to spend the money we had on engineering kit, especially when it‘s not too hard to borrow kit from another unit.  I‘m not saying it‘s right, but when you only have so much money...


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## Jarnhamar (25 Mar 2004)

We need to break into the war stock!


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## mattoigta (25 Mar 2004)

> The 33rd only had 2-sections worth of guys (Large sections, about 18per)


  
Why dont they just have a proper platoon?


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## vr (26 Mar 2004)

Don‘t confuse "newer" with "better".  There are enough quality issues with CADPAT to make people miss the OD-which I‘m still wearing.  The new "no button" look along with the mixture of CADPAT & OD kit looks quite challenged.

Those old radios and field phones still function.  They are much easier to use and more resilient to the rigors of military life.  We recently had both types deployed on CS-04 and couldn‘t tell the difference.

As long as it‘s in good repair recycled webbing 7 rucksacks are much quicker to get used to than the new stuff and require less breaking in.

It‘s been my experience in the medical field that the more shiny high speed kit that someone has the less they know how to use it properly.


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## Spr.Earl (26 Mar 2004)

I have been in 28yrs and have seen all kind‘s of cock up‘s with kit issue so don‘t worry about it.
As for the new radios they have just complicated thing‘s by assuming we are all computer geek‘s!   

Gucci Kit does not make a Soldier!!

From what I‘ve seen and heard from a lot of my friend‘s in the Reg.‘s they wish they had the old combat‘s because they stand up better and don‘t "FADE".

Adapt and over come!!


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## McG (26 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Pte. Scarlino:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


33 FES (not "the 33rd") would not form a "platoon" because, as Engineers, they would form a "troop."  The chosen structure may be based on a lack of leadership for additional sections.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Mar 2004)

I have to agree with the radios.  Why TF couldn‘t they just put a couple of switches on it like "on" and "off" and "volume"?  You need a degree in engineering to use them.  We had a couple of local Jimmies come to give a lecture on the new radios to some of the headquarters types, and they spent half an hour showing all the shortcuts in the keypresses and trying to impress us with how fast they could do everything; end result - BFD, no one learned a **** thing.  

Aren‘t the new manpacks also heavier than the ones they were supposed to replace?  This is progress??  I realize we have all the cool secret squirrel crypto stuff now, but was that really necessary at the company level?  I may be showing my ignorance, but could an enemy operator listening in, even to transmissions in the clear, really get much intel worthy of action from platoons reporting in to their company HQ during a running fight?  I mean, by the time the enemy intel operators reported on what they were hearing, could they a) figure out what was really going on, where, and b) really do anything about it?


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## Garry (27 Mar 2004)

re intel- yes.

and the new radios aren‘t that tough to figure out- just keep at them.


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## Spr.Earl (27 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Garry:
> [qb] re intel- yes.
> 
> and the new radios aren‘t that tough to figure out- just keep at them. [/qb]


Garry if I whant to play with a computer I‘ll stay at home.   
They have taken a good system and made it unsoldier proof i.e Keep it Simple Stupid!!
I don‘t whant to have to hit and scroll down etc.


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## xenomfba (1 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
> [qb] I have to agree with the radios.  Why TF couldn‘t they just put a couple of switches on it like "on" and "off" and "volume"?  You need a degree in engineering to use them.
> 
> [/qb]


While I‘m an infanteer, I‘m also comms qualified and I have to say the 522 is a great piece of kit. Don‘t get all caught up in the small-scale mindset of your reserve unit -- try to think of the applications in battalion/brigade dimensions. Try to think past a 5-day training ex. We always have to maintain the ability to operate in a drawn out large scale operation. 

Use Op Appolo as an example. You have Taliban/Al Qaeda electronic warfare operators (for them, a guy with a radio) listening and recording every sitrep, locstat, rrr, radio check for four months, and they could figure out the composition of your net, call signs, units, your activities, unit strenth, patrol types/frequency/routes, vehicle types, etc. etc. Pretty easy to set up an ambush with that kind of information, and that‘s just rudimentary evesdropping by a less-than-well-equipped enemy. Throw in a little crypto and that problem is solved.

Now, think even bigger -- operations against a capable, well-equipped enemy with a competent electrontic warfare capability. They don‘t necessarily have to hear what you‘re saying to use your comms against you. They can record the frequency of your transmissions, the length of your transmissions, the strength of your signal and your location. Before you know it, artillery could be raining down directly on your brigade headquarters.

Holy crap. What was this thread about again? I don‘t even know where I‘m going with this. Pretty impressive though, huh? Did I mention that I‘m an infanteer?

Edit: I thought about it, and I guess you‘re right. The 522 is confusing. At your level, all you need to know is how to turn it on/off and set a frequency. 

I think I just forgot what the thread was about again.


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## Infanteer (1 Apr 2004)

522 is an excellent radio.  Some aspects of it could be simplified for ease of use, but once you work with it on a day-to-day basis, its actually pretty fool proof.

Its so wiz-bang the Brits are buying it.


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## Danjanou (1 Apr 2004)

Guys you have to remember that for old farts like M. Dorosh, Spr Earl and I sophisticated comms is two tin cans and a bit of string.    

Now excuse me I have to go and clean my musket.


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## Michael Dorosh (1 Apr 2004)

Danjanou - Within a few months, I recently reached the stage where recruits signing up will have been born after I joined the military.  Turning 30 was nothing for me, but THAT was a sobering milestone!

xenomfba - or whatever! - you made some good points, that was the kind of answer I was indeed looking for.  Well, without the interspersed sarcasm.  Like I said, I‘m ignorant, thanks for the education.

Incidentally, do they have fridge techs in the reserves?


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## Infanteer (1 Apr 2004)

Shhh....wouldn‘t want to spoil the fun.


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## Danjanou (1 Apr 2004)

Michael, Fridge Tech is a rare and very specialised course but it is open to all trades etc. 

Earl and I were on the older "Ice Box Tech" course many years ago, but I‘ve obviously lost my qualification and the right to wear the special Fridge Assault Badge.

Rumour has it that Infanteer is even qualified on the new A1 Fridge with the ice cube dispenser in the door.


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## Michael Dorosh (1 Apr 2004)

I hear the Maytag Man is really a retired Fridge Tech who didn‘t qualify for admission into the Commissionaires. It‘s good to know there are options for life after the Forces.


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