# Signing Bonus - Engineering Officers



## rceme_rat (14 Feb 2002)

Most of you will have seen the announcement that newly recruited enginneering officers (Engineers, Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Sigs, and 3 others) will receive a $40,000 signing bonus payable in two instalments.

The bonus is not available to recruits whose engineering education was subsidized by the CF.

My rhetorical question is:  why not?  

If you are attempting to fill ranks of seriously understaffed MOCs, why not pay the bonus to a former ROTP officer?  Why only to a DEO?  Indeed, why not specify a preference for former ROTP officers who will not require the full training that a new recruit will - saving both money and time to practical employment? 

Looks like someone didn‘t want to risk the political flak of recruiting (and paying) someone whose education had been paid by the CF, and who was then bought out by the CF under FRP.

I would have hoped that the basic concept of sunk costs would be recognized by those in the know - and subsidized education is a sunk cost.  I guess I was hoping for too much.


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## Yard Ape (14 Feb 2002)

This bonous will not be available to any reservists who recieved the up to $2000 a year education subsidy.  It does not even matter if that member has already fullfilled the one year no NES commitment required.  Again, as pointed out by rceme_rat, even if the individual did not go through RESO as an Engineer office the CF could save money if the person could only write of phase 1.  Infantry and other combat arms officers would be qualified up to Ph II, and any Engineer Officers would be qualified up to Ph III.   For the two to three years it would take to qualify a civi to this level, the CF would actualy be saving money by offering it to previously subsidiesed members.

Think of the alternative.  The member could release from the reserves for and the money invested in that training is lost.  Don‘t think newly graduated Engineers won‘t leave thier reserve units?  Think again, they will move to where the money is (even if there are no reserves in the area) and for them, the money is not in the regular force.


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## Yard Ape (15 Feb 2002)

*Engineering Officer Recruitment Allowance * 
DND Press Release, 12 February, 2002 

OTTAWA - The Canadian Forces (CF) has been actively engaged in a three-year recruiting program that began 1 April 2001. While this program has many components, developing new and innovative attraction tools is central. On 7 February 2002 Treasury Board approved a $40,000 recruitment allowance for applicants to six Regular Force engineering occupations that are experiencing significant shortages of personnel. Its goal is to increase the enrolment of engineering officer applicants who possess engineering or specific science degrees.

The allowance came into effect on 8 February 2002 and has been under development for several months.

The Conference Board of Canada recently reported that more than 75% of organizations in 2001 reported difficulties in recruitment and/or retention for key positions, and that attracting engineers is among the greatest challenges. The allowance will increase the CF‘s ability to compete in the Canadian labour market for these highly desirable individuals.

The CF pays for members‘ undergraduate degrees through the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) at either Royal Military College or civilian universities. However, the number of engineering graduates from ROTP is not sufficient to meet the shortfall of engineering officers. The CF estimates that it will need to recruit approximately 600 new engineers by 31 March 2006. It is imperative, therefore, that the CF increase its enrolment of applicants who already possess undergraduate engineering and science degrees. This will alleviate personnel shortages, reduce the time required to produce qualified engineering officers and help ensure that operational effectiveness is not compromised.

*Costs* 
It is estimated that the costs until 31 March 2006 will be $30.56 million, from funds currently allocated to National Defence.

*Eligibility Criteria* 
The $40,000 allowance will be payable to applicants who possess specific engineering or science degrees who enrol in one of six Regular Force engineering officer occupations.

Four categories of people will be eligible for the allowance:

  :bullet:  Direct entry applicants who possess a relevant engineering or specific science degree 
  :bullet:  Reserve Force members with relevant degrees who transfer into Regular Force engineering officer occupations 
  :bullet:  Non-commissioned members who possess relevant degrees who are granted commissions and assigned to Regular Force engineering occupations 
  :bullet:  Former members with relevant degrees who re-enrol if they left the Regular Force or transferred to the Reserve Force before 7 February 2002. 

Applicants must not have received direct financial assistance, subsidization or funding from the Canadian Forces to help them attain their engineering or science degrees.

All successful applicants must also meet the general eligibility requirements for enrolment into the Canadian Forces, including the following:

 - be a Canadian citizen 
 - be of good character (determined through, for example, credit and criminal record checks)
 - meet the minimum age requirement for the entry plan
 - meet all medical and enrolment standards 
 - successfully complete the pre-enrolment fitness evaluation 

*Obligatory Service and Payment Procedures* 
Officers who receive the allowance must make a commitment to serve for four years in the Regular Force from the date of enrolment or transfer or - in the case of former non-commissioned members - from the date they were commissioned as officers.

The allowances are subject to income tax, Canadian Pension Plan deductions and Employment insurance deductions. They are payable in two equal instalments.

The first instalment in the amount of $25,000 will occur when engineering officers have met all the eligibility requirements. The applicants must successfully complete basic officer training or be exempt from the training. 

The second installment of $15,000 will be paid on the second anniversary of the first payment. The officers must still be serving in the Regular Force in their assigned occupation or another engineering occupation. 

If special or unforeseen circumstances lead to an officer‘s request for release before the completion of the obligatory service, the Chief of the Defence Staff may approve the release. Depending on the circumstances, if officers transfer to non-engineering occupations or are released for other than compassionate reasons, they will be obliged to repay all or a portion of the allowance, pro-rated according to the length of time they have served as engineers.

*Eligible Degrees* 
Engineers 
Electrical and Mechanical Engineering 
Communications and Electronics Engineering 
Maritime Engineering 
Aerospace Engineering 
Airfield Engineering


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## PTE_Lui (12 Mar 2002)

I‘m in the Communication reserve, and I‘m taking Engineering right now at U of C, and it is quite disconcerning to find that I may not be able to apply for that $40000, especially since I have been concidering applying for a commision after getting my degree and signing on with Reg Force for a few years.  Thing is, when you think about it, an Engineer who graduates with a half decent GPA is ALMOST guarenteed a job paying roughly $50000 a year; roughly the equvilant to a reg force Captain.  My hope was that with enough time in as a reservist, (4-5 years by the time I get my degree) i could have accumulated enough qualifications (I‘d like to have completed my QL5‘s and JNCO/JLC‘s course by then) and actual time in to possibly get a commision as a Captain.


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## Spr Earl (12 Mar 2002)

Pte Lui no harm meant ,but see in your mind you being a Capt. in the Engineer‘s, Reg. Force with only 5 yrs Reserve time.

 It take a lot of ticket punch‘s to get there.
Meaning  all the right course‘s and friend‘s up there!

 No harm meant.


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## McG (12 Mar 2002)

Pte_Lui, junior Sgt will only commision to Lt.  

I‘m more intrested in the fact that you may be left out by this recruiting program.  I personaly know  atleast 5 people who are excluded because they took advantage of the reserve reimbursment program.  Infact, there is not a single member of 31 CER that is elligable for this incentive.  

Have you contracted the recruiting center about your concerns?  If  many intrested people turn out to be inelligable this fact will (in theory) be reported up the food chain.  This would provide Ottawa with the arguments to change the program.

. . . maybe that is optimistic but it cannot hurt.  Check with your friends to see if any are in the same situation as you.  A larger group provides a stronger voice.


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## PTE_Lui (13 Mar 2002)

Geez; thanks guys, for shooting down my hopes of being a Captain    jk; lol.  But, seriously, I‘ve been considering joining reg force after getting my degree; regardless. Especially since my father shoots me down about how I‘ll never succeed as an Engineer in the real (civvy) world.  

But to lay my fears to rest, what‘s life like for a reg force officer?  I hear alot of mess talk about it, and it does sound appealing, especially the part about having 20 years in then retiring with a full pension.  I suppose it depends alot on my situation in 4 years, but I‘d like to know if I‘m even officer material; or if officer material is even right for me.  

Whatsmore, since my tuition is more or less covered, I‘m torn between the $8000 in financial assistance and the $40000 for being an Engineer; especially since I‘m not positivly sure I‘d apply for a commision.

Your help is greatly appreciated.


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## rceme_rat (14 Mar 2002)

If it helps, think about it as $8000 less whatever taxes you pay on that $8000, and $20,000 - since you will pay around 50% of the signing bonus in tax.  I doubt you‘ll pay more than $3000 on the $8000 - so now it‘s $5000 and $20,000 - or only a $15,000 difference, not $32,000.  Still a good bucket of cash!

In any case, the bonus is only available now to people who are already qualified.  So, if you‘re still in school, there is no choice.  I guess the queston for those who took the $8000 to get their engineering degree is whether they could return it and then get the signing bonus instead!

As for your dad‘s comment - I‘ll take that as a joke, since I shudder to think people would be choosing the military since they can‘t make it on civvie street.


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## McG (14 Mar 2002)

If you commit to staying with the reserves for an additional year, the education reimbursment is tax free.


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## PTE_Lui (14 Mar 2002)

Thing is, I havn‘t applied for the financial assistance program.  They said you apply for it at the end of your school year once you have proof that you‘ve succesfully completed your courses.

I suppose whatever decision I make, I‘ll make it based on my situation in 4 years.  I mean, I don‘t even know what life as an officer is like, really.  I‘ve wanted to be a soldier since I was a kid; and while the reserves fulfills that longing temporarily, I have the feeling I could take it a step further.  I‘ve heard a little about people taking up 3-5 year contracts with reg force; can you do that as a reserve officer, or what?


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## Brad Sallows (15 Mar 2002)

It is important to remember that the current education reimbursement program for reservists is only undergoing a 4-year trial.  At the end of that time it will be evaluated, and a decision will be made to continue it or not.  One can not assume it will be available indefinitely, nor the same for any recruitment bonus.


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## Ralph (5 Jun 2003)

Not (if I get in) that I‘m expecting to want to leave before retirement, but what does this nine-year contract thing for officers - and if you don‘t want to stay nine years - entail? On one of the other threads, it was mentioned that the guys who get signing bonuses have to pay them back if they decide to leave early, but what about we losers with arts degrees who aren‘t getting anything extra? My first born?
Cheers,
Ralph.


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## Tyrnagog (5 Jun 2003)

The way it works for those with signing bonuses (bonii ?) is...

There is the 9 year contract and a 4 year letter of understanding.  If I leave the military for any reason in the first 4 years, I have to pay back the money they gave me (as far as I undersatnd).  It is like the Army is trying to pay my university bill, as though I was in the ROTP.

After that, I still have 5 years left of the regular officer contract term.  That is, the 9 year regular officer contract.  I can still apply to leave if I have to, but my recruiting officer said it is a lengthy process to push all of the papers.  But I won‘t have to pay back any money paid to me from the signing bonus.


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## Pondo (10 Aug 2004)

Hi,

I can't seem to get a straight answer from the local recruiting centre. I have a couple degrees in engineering and am going through the application process to enter as an aerospace engineer. I've asked them if this is one of the trades that qualifies for the signing bonus but they've always avoided the topic. 

Secondly, I'll be finishing my masters degree this fall and am sort of dragging my heels on the application. When is the deadline date for application to be considered for January recruitment to attend the BOTC that would be sometime around there?

Thanks


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## DrSize (10 Aug 2004)

Well for DEOs there are two intakes yearly.   One is for BOTC in January and the other is for BOTC in July??? I believe......

Depending on your RC if you wanted to get in for the BOTC in January you need to apply ASAP and everything has to be ready to go before the selection board in October...so you only have a little over 2 months to make sure all your forms, interviews, and tests have been complete


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## rdschultz (10 Aug 2004)

Thats correct, if you want to be considered for the fall DEO selection boards, you should start your application process now.   My application took about 8 weeks to go from actually applying to my file being sent for selection, so it does take time.  

The AERE trade is one that is offered the Engineering Officer recruitment allowance (in fact there is a member of these forums who was selected for the trade and will receieve it, but I'll let him explain anything he wants to about that).  I find it surprising that they won't be more direct with you.  The Captain who did my interview made a point of showing me a sheet of paper he had that specifically mentioned that AERE, CELE and SIGS (as well as EME, because I was considering that at the time) were eligible to recieve the bonus.


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## casing (11 Aug 2004)

Thanks for the partial intro, hoser.   

Regarding the signing bonus....

The CFRC should have a pile of printouts indicating which engineering occupations qualify for the $40K recruitment allowance.  The one in Calgary did, anyway.   The sheet says that there are 6 engineering occupations that qualify; however, there are actually 7 now because since that sheet was written up CELE was split into CELE (Air) and Signals Officer.

I think the likely reason they beat around the bush about the recruitment allowance is that it could potentially no longer be available by the time a potential enrollee is actually enrolled.

Regarding when you should apply....

Start the application process now.   If you happen to get placed into the pile for consideration during the Oct/Nov selection boards (for a Jan/Feb start date) and you find that you aren't ready yet, you could decline any possible offer (declining an offer has zero bearing on any future offers) and just get your application considered for the next boards (deadline around the end of April for a Sept start).   The benefit to doing this is that your file will be done and the effort required to keep it updated is minimal.   You need to understand that there are many variables that could pop up during your application process that might cause rather extensive delays.   So it is to your advantage to have your file complete as soon as possible.   

My application process took just about exactly 6 months (Dec 16 application in, Jun 19 offer officially received).   Plus another 3 months prior to dropping off my application that was dedicated to research and having my American degree undergo an international qualification assessment.   Take a look on page 7 of the _Applications Process Samples_ thread for my entry to get a good idea of how an application process can go (has running updates).   Also, I was accepted for AERE, so if you have any specific questions, just PM me and I'll see if I can help out.


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## Croony (5 Jan 2005)

I've been searching the net for answers and the army websites aren't completely clear about this.
I want to join the army engineers thru the DEO plan and i possess all the necessary requirements (ie engineering degree, Canadian citz, etc)  Here's the kicker.  To be considered for a position, what is the minimum length of commitment (length of contractual agreement) that an enrollee must commit too.  I was told it is 9 years, this seems alittle long, is this correct?  The Army is offering $40k signing bonuses for 4 year terms to any new officer enrollee's entering an engineering position.  Why offer this bonus under a 4 year term when the minimum amount of time you must commit too to be considered as a worthy candidate for acceptance as a DEO is 9 years?  In other words, if you want to become an officer in the Canadian army, why isn't the $40 k signing bonus offered as a 9 year term since your going to be in for that long anyways?


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## Meridian (5 Jan 2005)

If I ever was instructed correctly, the term of service is better put as the military's expected commitment to you. Obviously they would prefer you stuck around for that time period as well, but you can always VR earlier.   Bonuses and education subsidies also come with their own requirements... in the case of ROTP for example, its a 5 year commitment (actually less if you do not do the full program) and you can "buyout" years if you need to leave earlier... we were told 10k/year...

But if you just go in deo... without bonus, AFAIK you have no real contractual/financial obligation to the forces beyond any other normal employment contract.


I could totally be wrong...   Basically I was told there is the "Formal way" and the "way it really works"...  But personally i'd never originally sign up for something when Im already certain I do not want to complete it....


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## chk2fung (31 Jan 2005)

I've been looking at the pay scale for officers on the dnd site and  I'm just curious as to why there's no Officer Cadet pay scale for DEO officers, ie "C"?  Am I to assume Officer Cadets under DEO receive Second Lieutenants pay?  

As an aside why do ROTP Second Lieutenants get paid more than DEO Second Lieutenants?  Is this because ROTP Second Lieutenants already have SLT and other courses completed before commissioning.  If that's the case it takes a DEO 2LT 2 incentive pay categories to have the same basic pay as a ROTP 2LT.  How long does it take to jump two pay incentive categories.   Is it the number of courses completed or is it by time in.  If its by time in, how long before getting to pay incentive category 2, and if its by courses how long would that take to equal the number of courses received by ROTP officers. 

I have also been given the impression that ROTP officers do not qualify for recruitment bonuses like the $40 000 for engineers.  Does anyone have the answer to the above questions?  Thank you for your kind attention.


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## Meridian (31 Jan 2005)

hi... a deo is only an OCdt usually during IAP/BOTP.... 

As far as I was told, it was because of the advantageous training received by ROTP's and more importantly TI that gives ROTP'ers a different pay scale.


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## Inch (31 Jan 2005)

chk2fung said:
			
		

> I've been looking at the pay scale for officers on the dnd site and   I'm just curious as to why there's no Officer Cadet pay scale for DEO officers, ie "C"?   Am I to assume Officer Cadets under DEO receive Second Lieutenants pay?



DEOs are 2Lts from the get go, when they finish basic training their commission is effective the day they were sworn in. You receive DEO 2Lt pay from day one.



> As an aside why do ROTP Second Lieutenants get paid more than DEO Second Lieutenants?   Is this because ROTP Second Lieutenants already have SLT and other courses completed before commissioning.   If that's the case it takes a DEO 2LT 2 incentive pay categories to have the same basic pay as a ROTP 2LT.   How long does it take to jump two pay incentive categories.     Is it the number of courses completed or is it by time in.   If its by time in, how long before getting to pay incentive category 2, and if its by courses how long would that take to equal the number of courses received by ROTP officers.



The difference in pay is a Time In thing, however, it's kinda skewed a little bit. ROTP guys that I got my wings with got promoted to Lt while myself and other DEOs were promoted right to Capt.  The reason for this is even though the ROTP guys had been in the military longer, I had been commissioned longer. So I believe they get the higher pay only due to the fact that they spend 4 years as an OCdt, but in the end, all your promotions are based on your commissioning date.

Also, you're only _supposted_ to be a 2Lt for one year and an Lt for 2 years. So if an ROTP and a DEO enrolled on the same day, the DEO would be a Capt a year before the ROTP guy was commissioned.

One incentive = one year. You get an incentive for every year you're in that rank until you max out on the pay tables, I got my wings on the 2nd of Apr, so I get an incentive every Apr 2nd as long as I'm a Capt. So since there's 10 incentives for a Capt, once you recieve that last incentive, you won't get any more raises until you're promoted to Maj.



> I have also been given the impression that ROTP officers do not qualify for recruitment bonuses like the $40 000 for engineers.   Does anyone have the answer to the above questions?   Thank you for your kind attention.



The only reason I can think of for why they wouldn't get bonuses is because they're not engineers thus not eligible for the bonus. They're only engineers after they graduate in which case the CF owns them for 5 years after university.


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## Meridian (31 Jan 2005)

ROTP-ers do not qualify because their education is being subsidized. If the government paid for your education, they are not going to give you another 40,000 just for completeing it, basically.

If you are talking about a secondary degree. (Ie I have an AeroEng degree and I want to go back to get a CompEng degree) then I do not know if ROTP will subsidize a second degree, perhaps someone in recruiting could answer that...


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## Croony (3 Feb 2005)

So if an engineer would sign up for the engineering signing bonus...Does the 4 year contract include training time or does the commitment start once a level of training is complete?


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## Inch (3 Feb 2005)

Contracts start the day you enroll. There are however some trade specific stipulations, I don't know what they are for engineers, but pilots for example are on restricted release for 7 years after they're MOC qualified. In my case, I enrolled in 1999, spent 5 years in the training system and my 7 years started Apr 2nd 2004. I must stay in until Apr 2nd 2011, period. So my initial 9 year contract wouldn't have covered until the end of my restricted release, thus I had to sign an additional contract. My two options were the Intermediate engagement to take me to my 20 year of service or sign a short engagement that would have ended at the same time as my restricted release.


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## hoote (24 Feb 2005)

So just to clarify, I will be earning 2Lt pay throughout basic training even though I will be an officer cadet?  I am going in for DEO infantry officer.  I need to know as there is a drastic difference in pay and my wife and I are banking on a certain wage.

Thanks,
Hoote


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## Thirstyson (24 Feb 2005)

Yes Hoote, but please verify with your recruiting officer as it would be bad to make a mistake.

I think DEO officer cadets are at 2LT pay, table C, level 3 to start.

Again, ask your recruiting officer, they don't mind being asked.


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## kincanucks (24 Feb 2005)

Meridian said:
			
		

> ROTP-ers do not qualify because their education is being subsidized. If the government paid for your education, they are not going to give you another 40,000 just for completeing it, basically.
> 
> If you are talking about a secondary degree. (Ie I have an AeroEng degree and I want to go back to get a CompEng degree) then I do not know if ROTP will subsidize a second degree, perhaps someone in recruiting could answer that...



The CF will only subsidize a second degree if it is required for the occupation, e.g Nursing.


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## hoote (26 Feb 2005)

Just in case anyone wants to know, I went into the recruiting center this week and they have the new pay scales effective Apr 2005.  DEO officers get $39,000 (and change) from the get go until they are Lieutenants when it goes up to 46,000 (and change).  Then supposedly after 2 years as Lieutenant, they are promoted to Captain and make 63,000 (and of course...change).  

This was nice to hear as I thought DEO officer cadets only got like 2k a month.  

Now all I have to do is get in!!  

Hoote


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## Thirstyson (1 Mar 2005)

> This was nice to hear as I thought DEO officer cadets only got like 2k a month.



Don't count you're chickens before they've hatched .... after tax etc. a DEO takes home about 2.5k per month.


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## Iliyana (3 Mar 2005)

When my DH first joined as a DEO, he only got officer cadet pay. After IAP, he got SLT pay as back time retroactive to when he joined. He eventually got the full pay, but not at the beginning. Just wanted to clarify!


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## CdnArtyWife (4 Mar 2005)

Ditto that, only the pay office in St-Jean messed up and tried to pay dh too much, but dh caught it and went to rectify it. Pay office gave him an allotment of 800 each pay until it was fixed. At end of BOTP he got all of his closing ballance which was a nice treat just after christmas (dh grad BOTP 22 Dec 01)


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## ZxExN (16 Mar 2006)

Does anyone know if DEO applicants can get reimbursed for the education that they paid? It seems a little unfair that everyone getting accepted to RMC and through Civ ROTP are getting their education paid for. The Army is now amping up their recruting advertisement but the one group of people that they would benefit from having (the DEO who already got their degree), that group seems like they're getting the staft. There is absolutely no financial incentive currently for them to join. I'm not saying that it's all about the money, but if one of the major selling point for recruting is paying for your education, a partial reimbursement for people who already have degrees would really be benefical. Plus, I'm sure theres are many that go through RMC or civ that the gov't pays for but dont' complete their program and essential, the gov't has wasted that money on them. However with DEOs, they are guaranteed someone with a degree and hence, no risk.

Also with RMC or ROTP applicants who can take 4 years to finish, with DEO you're getting an applicant thats ready to go right now. 

Btw I'm a DEO applicant but I don't want it to sound like all I want is to milk the governement but if they're serious about hiring and beefing up the CF, they should also be fair and give Universe grads some incentives.


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## Big Foot (16 Mar 2006)

ZxExN, please bear in mind one thing, many DEO officers get a signing bonus when they sign on into the Forces, a signing bonus often times big enough to cover education expenses. As well, we ROTP folks do summer training while going to school, so we're qualified, or close to qualified, when we graduate. Before you start bashing the ROTP program, please do your research. I am uncertain of current signing bonuses, but they do exist for a lot of DEO officers. In short, leave us be. Both programs offer their own advantages.


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## dapaterson (16 Mar 2006)

It's largely a case of supply and demand - there is enough of a supply of people with degrees applying to meet the intake requirements, so why offer additional inducements?

In the past, there have been some bonuses offered to attract Engineers; and currently there are programs in place to provide inducements to Doctors and Dentists to enrol.  As well, certain NCM occupations offer bonuses for personnel who can bypass training.  I do not have the current list of occupations qualifying for bonuses at hand (if Kincanuks is reading this, perhaps he has it handy?).  But they mostly provide incentives for personnel who can bypass technical training,.


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## muffin (16 Mar 2006)

Some of the signing bonuses :

Engineers / Science Degrees

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/enrollment/index_e.aspx

Doctors

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/enrollment/index_e.aspx

Dentists

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/enrollment/index_e.aspx

and there have been / or are bonuses for NCM trades as well...

muffin


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## scoutfinch (16 Mar 2006)

Without attempting to sound like Mother Theresa or too overly altruistic, I really wish people would stop the "what's in it for me" routine before enrollment.  

It is an honour and a privilege to serve my Country.  I say this with all seriousness having left a very lucrative civilian career in midlife to pursue a military career because it is the right thing to do.  

Let's be honest -- no one is going to be rich while serving in the military.  This isn't civie street, so the expectation that someone *owes* you something because you have *deigned* to serve is offensive.  Big deal, you have a degree.  I have three.  

To paraphrase Kennedy, it isn't about what the military can give to you, it should be about what you can do for your country.


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## HCA123 (16 Mar 2006)

A DEO candidate can't expect a reimbursement for university they already have completed. As a DEOer myself, I can say (knowing a few RMC grads) that I had a 'different' university experience. Much more sleeping in and a lot less stress for me. RMC isn't a walk in the park and in my opinion they earn every coin they make/free education they are given. Being an Ocdt for 4 to 5 years can't be easy (as opposed to those of us who are commissioned upon completion of BOTP).

Anyone that wants a 'civie' university experience combined with a military experience (and take advantage of reimbursements), ROTP civie U is an option or you can do what I did and join the reserves and when you are done university, transfer over to the regs. Reservists make much more now than they used to and they have a reimbursement program (50% up to $2000).

In the end, how many jobs are out there that would pay you back for university you have already completed? I'm thinking zero, why should the military be different? The military is offering great things these days (pay, leave, travel, training, etc) and as a previous post states, you can't go into the process thinking the military owes you something. Once you are in and you perform at a high level, you will be rewarded accordingly. Enrolment bonuses for tech trades/engineers/MOs are a different matter altogether and for those professions are deserved as they are trying to fill a serious gap, as the military has to be competitive with the private industry.


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## ZxExN (16 Mar 2006)

Yeah I guess you guys are right. University experience and an ROTP/RMC experience is quite different. However just on at recruiting point of view, it would be very attractive to offer DEOs some incentives. If at the very least, forgive their government loans.


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## double0three (16 Mar 2006)

I was pretty sure any DEO applicant received a big bonus, but that may have been only during a specific time frame and no longer available as I can no longer find it.

However while it would certainly be nice that they covered your education costs, its not really necessary.  An officer position in the forces is pretty good money once you move up in the ranks (and decent even when you start up for that matter).  Its pretty competative with salary for an entry level position at most companies, benefits are wonderful, and you won't even be paying living expenses should you live on the base.

Plus none of us want in for the money anyway... right?????


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## Zoomie (16 Mar 2006)

The majority of DEO candidates do not receive a signing bonus.  The Canadian Forces is not a charity nor is it in the habit of reimbursing scholastic education that is required for employment.


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## xmarcx (17 Mar 2006)

Personally, I'm about $15,000 through my BA with $5000 to go, and I'm so damn nervous and anxious to get into the forces I'd gladly pay them for the sweet, warm, comforting release of a job offer  ;D


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## mcchartman (14 Jun 2006)

I have an application underway for Reg. Forces Engineer Officer under the DEO entry plan and just realized that the $40k recruitment allowance associated with this trade has disappeared from the CF's recruiting page. The link where this information used to be found is the following:  (http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/army/bonuses_e.aspx?bhfv=8&bhqs=1). Can anyone confirm the fact that DND has put a stop to this recruitment allowance? If so, would you have the date at which the change was enacted?

Needless to say that I'm a bit upset about this - I know money isn't all and that fact alone should not alter my decision to try a career in the military, but this signature bonus would have covered my university fees...


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## kincanucks (15 Jun 2006)

mcchartman said:
			
		

> I have an application underway for Reg. Forces Engineer Officer under the DEO entry plan and just realized that the $40k recruitment allowance associated with this trade has disappeared from the CF's recruiting page. The link where this information used to be found is the following:  (http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/army/bonuses_e.aspx?bhfv=8&bhqs=1). Can anyone confirm the fact that DND has put a stop to this recruitment allowance? If so, would you have the date at which the change was enacted?
> 
> Needless to say that I'm a bit upset about this - I know money isn't all and that fact alone should not alter my decision to try a career in the military, but this signature bonus would have covered my university fees...



The bonus has not been approved for this year and therefore it is not being offered or advertised at this time.


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## mcchartman (15 Jun 2006)

> The bonus has not been approved for this year and therefore it is not being offered or advertised at this time.



I apologize in advance for being picky on the words, but was that meant as "it is not offered at this time until we receive official approval later in the year" (which I understand is nothing guaranteed) or was it rather meant as "it is not offered for this fiscal year, better luck for next year". Since we are already in june, I would imagine that a response would have been received by now, being more than 2 months into the fiscal year - but I still have to ask. Thanks in advance.


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## prime_nub (15 Jun 2006)

Although the treasury board has not convened to determine what trades, if any, will be offered signing bonuses this fiscal year, the fact is that the recruiting system did offer them, and has since pulled them back.  I applied for a component transfer to Signals Officer in Jan 06 and received my offer on 07 Apr 06 which included a Recruiting Allowance.  24 Hrs prior to my enrolment date (8 Jun 06), CFRG sent a new offer removing the RA from the offer, which I guess they did for everyone that was offered an RA after 1 Apr 06 with the exception of Medical Officers.  If they had known prior to 1 Apr 06 they would not have offered the RAs, and if they found out any sooner than a few days before my enrollment date would they not have a told me then?  
Currently the CBIs state that pers applying for understrength engineering trades who meet the requirements are to receive a 40000 RA - whether it's on the Recruiting website or not is irrelevant.  I personally believe that if the offer was made, and accepted, in good faith then it should be honored.  If the signing bonus had never been offered I would have enrolled regardless, but the fact is that according to their own administrative orders I am entitled to it, so why shouldn't I fight for it?  I know plenty of people working as civilian engineers and they are compensated for their education - it's called a higher salary, plus there is that little issue of unlimited liability which they don't have to worry about.  I'm joining to serve my country, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to fight for what my country has said I'm entitled to.  Just like I would fight for my subordinates to get everything they are entitled to.  At this point for me it is just as much about the recruiting system doing the "Right" thing for everyone whose offer they have altered, as it is about getting the RA.


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## aesop081 (15 Jun 2006)

:crybaby:


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## prime_nub (15 Jun 2006)

Nicely put, I'll take that under advisment.


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## kincanucks (15 Jun 2006)

Stop blaming the recruiting system.  Blame the Treasury Board.  The rule is if the bonus is in effect when you apply but not in effect when you enrol then you don't get the bonus.  When you applied the bonus was good until Apr 06 and now it isn't.


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## McG (16 Jun 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> The rule is if the bonus is in effect when you apply but not in effect when you enrol then you don't get the bonus.


. . . and you had better not expect a penny if the plan expired yesterday, you signed today, and the plan is renewed tomorrow.


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## mcchartman (5 Oct 2006)

It appears the $40k incentive for engineers is back, or so I've been told. Let me explain...

Today there is this big job fair at the University of Ottawa, and while I was heading to one of my morning courses, I passed the CF information booth. BEHOLD! Behind the recruiters, there was a banner with a big '40,000' printed on it, as well as the trades to which it applied, with engineer (24) at the very top of the list. After my course, I went to the booth to get some explanations and spoke with a recruiting officer over there who told me the same thing kincanucks explained earlier in this thread - EXCEPT it appears things have changed recently. According to him, the needs for engineers proved simply too great and they received the go-ahead to promote this $40k incentive this year as well.

I made sure to ask if I was still eligible for it, being already in the system (although I haven't signed my offer yet) and he assured me there wouldn't be any problem. Apparently, the way it works is just like it did for some years now... you get the first half (or so) upon graduating from St-Jean and the rest at the 2nd anniversary of your graduation.

Can anyone confirm this? Needless to say it comes as a huge surprise to me.

_EDIT - I forgot to mention: there doesn't appear to be anything about this on the CF recruiting website yet, hence my question._


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## dapaterson (5 Oct 2006)

On a related note: CANFORGEN 127/06 has announced that you will be eligible for a singing bonus if that bonus is in force when you apply to enrol or CT or is in force on the date you enrol or CT.

Excerpt follows:



> 3.  RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE POLICIES. EFFECTIVE 1 APR 05, THE AMENDMENTS TO REF B WILL MODIFY THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA SO THAT A CF MEMBER IS ENTITLED TO A RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE IF THEIR SELECTED OCCUPATION IS ON THE LIST OF UNDERSTRENGTH OCCUPATIONS ON THE DATE THEY APPLY TO ENROL IN THE CF, OR APPLY FOR COMPONENT TRANSFER, OR THE DATE THEY ARE ACTUALLY ENROLLED IN OR TRANSFERRED TO THE REGULAR FORCE


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## DanDaMan (16 Aug 2007)

Does anybody know if this is still in effect now or next year?


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## kincanucks (16 Aug 2007)

DanDaMan said:
			
		

> Does anybody know if this is still in effect now or next year?



Don't see it on the website but the best place to ask is your local CFRC/D.


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## Flouf (17 Aug 2007)

It is in effect now, I am getting it once I pass basic. ;D


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## TcDohl (17 Aug 2009)

Hooray for necroposting! 

I've heard more recently that the signing bonus for engineering officers are no longer being done. I'm going into the Navy, if that makes any difference.


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## Otis (18 Aug 2009)

TcDohl said:
			
		

> I've heard more recently that the signing bonus for engineering officers are no longer being done. I'm going into the Navy, if that makes any difference.



Nope, doesn't make a difference ... no signing bonus for Engineering in 2009.

Otis


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## MSEng314 (18 Aug 2009)

At NOAB I asked specifically about signing bonuses, they said probably not again until 2011, some sort of spending freeze or something.

Oh well, I'm still gonna do it


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## TcDohl (18 Aug 2009)

That's terrible. This is a bit of the "keeping up with the Joneses" syndrome, but a friend who is going into the USN is getting 100% of her tuition reimbursed when she enlists after she graduates. Not as an officer by the way, and she said that she isn't doing an NROTC. 

Good ol' Canada, who attracts top talent to her armed forces. 

Well, I hope by the time I finish BMOQ, they'll have the bonuses back :3


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## dustinm (18 Aug 2009)

TcDohl said:
			
		

> That's terrible. This is a bit of the "keeping up with the Joneses" syndrome, but a friend who is going into the USN is getting 100% of her tuition reimbursed when she enlists after she graduates. Not as an officer by the way, and she said that she isn't doing an NROTC.
> 
> Good ol' Canada, who attracts top talent to her armed forces.
> 
> Well, I hope by the time I finish BMOQ, they'll have the bonuses back :3



Perhaps the US Military's nature of "throwing money at it" (money for taking the earliest's BCT, money for signing a longer contract, money for re-signing contracts, money for agreeing to certain jobs or units, and I could go on) is responsible for the apparently large population that's dissatisfied with that country's Military?

Performing a search for "I want out of the <Service>" or "I hate the <Service>" inevitably pulls up results of many disgruntled Servicemen and women searching for loopholes to get out. 

Perhaps this belongs in another thread (and Mods feel free to split it off), but it's just something to think about when you consider bonuses (or lack thereof.)


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