# What happens if you are sworn in as a pilot, but failed a course (ex. phase 2,3)



## zhanhui913 (3 Jan 2011)

Say in your application form to the CF, you put down your career choices in the CF as 
1)Pilot
2)Navigator
3)Etc
If you take your CFAT and passed both for pilot and navigator and whatever your 3rd choice is.
You then get the offer as a pilot.
And sworn into the CF as a pilot.
But as you are training in PFT or BFT or phase 2 or 3, you failed that course.
Now, since you failed, i heard that means your course is terminated.
What happens next?
Do you get to go training for your second choice? Or ........???
Let me know.

Thanks a lot.
PS: I am new and i did try searching for this, but nothing related appear.


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## aesop081 (3 Jan 2011)

zhanhui913 said:
			
		

> Do you get to go training for your second choice? Or ........???



No. If they dont decided to kick you out of the CF altogether, you get offered whatever is on the list of trades availlable for people who are training failiures. My neighbour had the misfortune of failing out of pilot training and has chosen to go the NCM route as he didnt want to become an armoured or public affairs officer.


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## McG (3 Jan 2011)

zhanhui913 said:
			
		

> What happens if you are sworn in as a pilot, but failed a course


There is a career review to decide if you get another chance to pass whatever course you failed.  If you do not get another chance, you will be sent for assessment by a personnel selection officer to determine what other occupation you might fit.  Your course reports and instructor input will be included in the assessment - depending on why you failed, you may find yourself automatically excluded from other occupations.  If you failed for leadership, then you can anticipate an officer occupation will not be offered.  If you failed for some standard of performance that would be expected of any aircrew, then you can anticipate that you will not be offered any such occupations.  The selection officer will try to recommend something that fits your interests, but that is not a certainty if your aptitudes (which are now better known than when you came through the CFRC) and the available openings don't line-up with the interests.

... there is also a possibility that your failure was so spectaculare as to result in a recomendation for your compulsary release.


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## SupersonicMax (3 Jan 2011)

MCG said:
			
		

> If you failed for leadership, then you can anticipate an officer occupation will not be offered.



People fail pilot training for Leadership???


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## Nemecek (3 Jan 2011)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> People fail pilot training for Leadership???



All the time! 

It can be very difficult to lead your peers out of their rooms at the hotel when there's no room service and get something to eat at the steakhouse in the lobby when they've been working for 5, 6, or maybe even 7 hours in one day!  ;D


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## SupersonicMax (3 Jan 2011)

Nemecek said:
			
		

> All the time!
> 
> It can be very difficult to lead your peers out of their rooms at the hotel when there's no room service and get something to eat at the steakhouse in the lobby when they've been working for 5, 6, or maybe even 7 hours in one day!  ;D



I'd agree with you, but my standard day is more like 10-12h!


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## aesop081 (3 Jan 2011)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> People fail pilot training for Leadership???



If one were to fail to demonstrate OLQs.............its in almost every officer course QS.


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## SupersonicMax (3 Jan 2011)

CA, I know Officer Development is part of the syllabus, however I have yet to see or hear of anyone fail pilot training for OD.


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## Nfld Sapper (3 Jan 2011)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> CA, I know Officer Development is part of the syllabus, however I have yet to see or hear of anyone fail pilot training for OD.



Doesn't mean it can't happen though.......


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## SupersonicMax (3 Jan 2011)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Doesn't mean it can't happen though.......



Having been through the training and having seen some of the candidates that go through sometimes (and pass!), I would be tempted to say it is impossible.


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## zhanhui913 (3 Jan 2011)

Shoot, I didnt make myself clear enough.
What I meant is that if you pass your IAP, BOTC, SLT.
But fail either your PFT or (AMT, BLSC, BSSC) or BFT or AFT.
What would happen?



			
				MCG said:
			
		

> If you failed for some standard of performance that would be expected of any aircrew, then you can anticipate that you will not be offered any such occupations.



I am also wondering if I failed either any courses as mentioned above, is it still possible to be an Air Combat System Officer(aka ANAV) <- (my 2nd choice)???
Since the course that if I were to fail is all flying related courses???

Thanks for your help guys.


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## dimsum (4 Jan 2011)

zhanhui913 said:
			
		

> Shoot, I didnt make myself clear enough.
> What I meant is that if you pass your IAP, BOTC, SLT.
> But fail either your PFT or (AMT, BLSC, BSSC) or BFT or AFT.
> What would happen?
> ...



Short answer, yes.


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## Good2Golf (4 Jan 2011)

You couldn't go ACSO (new term for ANAV) unless you wrote and passed the ACSO exam (95% required to pass).

Max, a guy one course behind me on Phase 3 failed out on OD and attitude.  Rare, yes, but well deserved.

Cheers
G2G


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## dimsum (4 Jan 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> You couldn't go ACSO (new term for ANAV) unless you wrote and passed the ACSO exam (95% required to pass).



Sorry, forgot about that part.


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## Zoomie (7 Jan 2011)

Anytime that I have CT'd (cease training) a student off Phase 1, 2 or 3, they have always been booked a visit with the PSO.  In the end, they offer you alternative choices.  Depending upon your entry plan (CEOTP, etc) you might not be offered anything else in the Airforce.  Some failed pilots simply wait out their oblig service from RMC as 2Lts and then release from the CF.


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## Bograt (15 Jan 2011)

Max,

I have known two who washed out due to leadership- possibly three.

And 10-12 hours you work I call bullsh*t unless you call making pop corn work.


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## Franko (16 Jan 2011)

How about this - Don't worry about it. 

Get in and do the courses. 

If you fail, deal with it then.

Regards


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## McG (16 Jan 2011)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Some failed pilots simply wait out their oblig service from RMC as 2Lts and then release from the CF.


Of course, there is a new CANFORGEN aiming at reducing the number of untrained pers wallowing for years in holding cells.  If an untrained member fails a career course, there is now a 30 day limit to decide if the member will be either recoursed, occupationally transfered, or recomended for release.


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## dimsum (16 Jan 2011)

MCG said:
			
		

> Of course, there is a new CANFORGEN aiming at reducing the number of untrained pers wallowing for years in holding cells.  If an untrained member fails a career course, there is now a 30 day limit to decide if the member will be either recoursed, occupationally transfered, or recomended for release.



Interesting.  Does that count for people who've got wings but later failed their OTU?  (Not me, I swear.   )


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## McG (16 Jan 2011)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Interesting.  Does that count for people who've got wings but later failed their OTU?  (Not me, I swear.   )


It applies to all untrained pers.  Conceivably, if one is not going to get another chance at their OTU, then one could face a compulsary transfer to another airframe as opposed to the occupational transfer or release.


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## niceasdrhuxtable (16 Jan 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> You couldn't go ACSO (new term for ANAV) unless you wrote and passed the ACSO exam *(95% required to pass)*.



Are you sure that's accurate? I'm fairly certain I didn't even answer 95% of the questions much less get them correct and I still managed to pass.


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## airdelta2 (2 Apr 2011)

I'd like to know if 95% on the ACSO test is actually required to become one (can someone verify this)?


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## Good2Golf (3 Apr 2011)

niceasdrhuxtable said:
			
		

> Are you sure that's accurate? I'm fairly certain I didn't even answer 95% of the questions much less get them correct and I still managed to pass.



I was told that by a recruiting officer and also know a personal experience of someone who achieved just under 95% and was told they were not eligible to apply to ACSO.  

You could confirm that personally on your own at a recruiting center.

Regards
G2G


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## X Royal (3 Apr 2011)

What use to be common in recruiting (mid 80"s) was to use percentile not actual %.
On a test you may not actually score 95% but if your score was in the best 5% of the overall scores that would be 95 percentile.
For example if on a given test if only 5% of the people who wrote the test traditionally scored better than an actual 80% average  if you scored better than 80% you would be in the top 5 percentile or 95 percentile.
Not sure if they still use this system though.


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## Grando (19 Apr 2011)

When I wrote the exam they told me I got 9/9 - the test has multiple parts and tons of questions.

I would be shocked if they marked it on a straight percentage scale, as there are parts put in that 99% of people just cannot finish in the alotted time.


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## Arctic007 (13 Jul 2011)

Winged pilot or aspiring to be one, you're always 2 flights away from a review board....  :-\    Just don't suck.


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