# HMCS Calgary CO & XO Relieved Of Duty- January 2020



## Privateer (31 Jan 2020)

Per Times Colonist:

link: https://www.vancourier.com/2.2065/change-in-command-for-hmcs-calgary-another-officer-disabled-ship-s-smoke-detector-1.24065570



> Change in command for HMCS Calgary; another officer disabled ship’s smoke detector
> 
> HMCS Calgary has undergone a change in command after evaluation of the ship’s performance during sea-readiness trials.
> 
> ...


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## Eye In The Sky (31 Jan 2020)

Career firing, career firing, career STOPS!  



> HMCS Calgary, one of five frigates based in Esquimalt with Maritime Forces Pacific, is being prepared for deployment to the Asia-Pacific region this spring.



CAL did a deployment in fall 2018 (PROJECTION) with Asterix, is that a normal CPF ops tempo to be going back again so soon?


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## Cloud Cover (31 Jan 2020)

Cmdr is a Flag Officer, not a Senior Officer. Is the rank actually Cdr (Commander)?


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## dapaterson (31 Jan 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> Cmdr is a Flag Officer, not a Senior Officer. Is the rank actually Cdr (Commander)?



Appears to be a locally generated abbreviation for Commander by the newspaper.


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## Eye In The Sky (31 Jan 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> Cmdr is a Flag Officer, not a Senior Officer. Is the rank actually Cdr (Commander)?



Commodore is actually abbreviated *Cmdre*.

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/defence/caf/military-identity-system/navy-ranks.html#step1


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## tomahawk6 (31 Jan 2020)

The co of a frigate is a commander. What rank is the xo ? Either a lt commander or a commander .


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## Sub_Guy (31 Jan 2020)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The co of a frigate is a commander. What rank is the xo ? Either a lt commander or a commander .



Usually a LCdr.


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## tomahawk6 (31 Jan 2020)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Usually a LCdr.



I know on some RN ships the CO is a Captain. Its like they need jobs for all their Captains as their Navy isn't all that big.


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## Furniture (31 Jan 2020)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Career firing, career firing, career STOPS!
> 
> CAL did a deployment in fall 2018 (PROJECTION) with Asterix, is that a normal CPF ops tempo to be going back again so soon?



I think she's back from a recent refit, so likely the majority of the crew swapped out since the last deployment. Though, based on my time out on the West coast it's safe to say much of the crew is likely recently back from some other mission in the last couple of years.


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## dimsum (31 Jan 2020)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I know on some RN ships the CO is a Captain. Its like they need jobs for all their Captains as their Navy isn't all that big.



It depends on what type of ship it is.  

Aircraft carrier?  CO is likely a Capt.  
Destroyer?  Usually a Cdr.  
Patrol boat?  Probably LCdr or maybe even Lt.  

The French names for the ranks from LCdr to Capt even "specify" the type of ship they commanded - LCdr is "Capitaine de corvette" (Corvette Captain), Cdr is "Capitaine de frégate" (Frigate Captain), and Capt is "Capitaine de vaisseau" (Ship [of the line] Captain).


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## Eye In The Sky (31 Jan 2020)

Furniture said:
			
		

> I think she's back from a recent refit, so likely the majority of the crew swapped out since the last deployment. Though, based on my time out on the West coast it's safe to say much of the crew is likely recently back from some other mission in the last couple of years.



Ahh, the infamous "jetty jumpers" I've heard about?


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## Navy_Pete (31 Jan 2020)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The co of a frigate is a commander. What rank is the xo ? Either a lt commander or a commander .



XOs are LCdrs. The ranks drop for the MCDVs and other small non combatants, but believe it'll be the same for the AOPs and JSS when they come online. Usually all the HODs are Lt(N)s, but they've started allowing some of them to get promoted to LCdr while on board because of the backlog.

The now retired 280s used to have Capt(N) (ie four ringers) as COs, usually as a second tour, but they were set up to be task group commanders with the Commodore and staff embarked. The 280s dropped down to Cdrs for COs about 15 years ago because of the backlog of folks waiting for CO tours, but still embarked the Cmdre and staff right up until retirement. Some of the frigates are set up with extra bunks to accommodate the Cmdre and gaggle of top weight, but changes nothing for the CO's rank.

Ships have been doing quick cycles for a while now; has been pretty common for a ship to come back, do a crew swap/workups, and relieve the same ship that relieved them. Fortunately the CSCs will be delivered any day now, so this kind of high op tempo won't be a big deal in making sure they last.  :


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## Gorgo (1 Feb 2020)

Reading that article just made me shake my head.  How STUPID can people be?!  You don't go around flagrantly violating rules of THAT nature like that, then expect the rest of the wardroom to go in line!

Idiots...!  :brickwall:


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## SeaKingTacco (1 Feb 2020)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> Reading that article just made me shake my head.  How STUPID can people be?!  You don't go around flagrantly violating rules of THAT nature like that, then expect the rest of the wardroom to go in line!
> 
> Idiots...!  :brickwall:



Idiot- singular. Only the XO broke the rules, and clearly, he was reported by members of the Wardroom.

That the CO was relieved (if I understand things correctly) had nothing to do with the Wardoom incident.


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## gryphonv (1 Feb 2020)

I curious how this went down. I experienced a ship having it's Cox'n replaced during workups, but never a CO or XO, or in this case both. 

I know with the Cox'n it was a huge deal with the Commodore showing up along with Fleet Cox'n while in port. It had potential to spoil our crew also because the Cox'n at the time was very popular with the  NCMs and NCOs.

I'd imagine something like this would of needed as big or even bigger a response. 

Also would this be a career ender for a CO? I can see an XO bouncing back from this after a few years, not sure if the CO would get another chance at command. 

Then again I've seen CO's mess up worse then this and get a promotion posting.


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## Navy_Pete (1 Feb 2020)

I think competition is so tight for the CO tours it'd be tough to come back from getting fired, charged and convicted as an XO. Guessing for both it at least slow tracks any further career progression and bump them out of consideration for high profile jobs, but who knows?

Have seen HODs/CHODs relieved and that's not pretty either; usually means the senior Cdr/CPO1 in the branch on that coast is paying them a visit and someone else is getting a very short notice message.

The trades are all pretty small so it's the kind of thing that tends to stick to someone for a long time, and unless they have a fairy godfather in the branch they are pretty much hooped. In one case it was the HOD being blamed for the Cmd team being topweight ballast, so didn't actually make a difference, but otherwise they are on the slow train to anonymous postings (which really isn't the worst thing if you want a good work/life balance anyway). Sometimes people are competent at some aspects of their job and not others, so usually can find useful roles for them in the posting matrix, but that kind of stink tends to linger for a long long time.


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## Humphrey Bogart (2 Feb 2020)

gryphonv said:
			
		

> I curious how this went down. I experienced a ship having it's Cox'n replaced during workups, but never a CO or XO, or in this case both.
> 
> I know with the Cox'n it was a huge deal with the Commodore showing up along with Fleet Cox'n while in port. It had potential to spoil our crew also because the Cox'n at the time was very popular with the  NCMs and NCOs.
> 
> ...



Why even bother?  If you are at the 25 mark or close to it, just pull pin and go do something else and leave the toxicity and baggage behind.

That is what I would do.  I would certainly not want to remain in the profession.  Sometimes you just need to know when to say you've had a good run and shut it down.


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## medicineman (2 Feb 2020)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Why even bother?  If you are at the 25 mark or close to it, just pull pin and go do something else and leave the toxicity and baggage behind.
> 
> That is what I would do.  I would certainly not want to remain in the profession.  Sometimes you just need to know when to say you've had a good run and shut it down.



This...in spades


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## FSTO (2 Feb 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Appears to be a locally generated abbreviation for Commander by the newspaper.



All the Canadian media use the abbreviation Cmdr for Commander. I have no idea why they don't use the abbreviation we use in the CAF.


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## stoker dave (2 Feb 2020)

As someone who (25 years ago) was a Canadian Naval officer and has worked in industry since, please let me add my two cents. 

This is all about "procedural compliance".  You don't get to choose which procedures you follow and which you don't.  Your boss doesn't get to, the XO doesn't get to, the CO doesn't get to.   If you are not complying with documented procedures, you can and should expect repercussions. (The ONLY exception is for emergencies.)

My experience suggests that this culture does not exist in DND.  It doesn't matter if the procedures relate to safety, operations or how to treat each other (see Op Honour), failure to follow procedures has consequences. 

Where I currently work (construction) infractions of documented procedures are taken very seriously.  Failure to follow documented procedure can and will get you removed from site and possibly fired.


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## The Bread Guy (2 Feb 2020)

<anal style guide derail>


			
				FSTO said:
			
		

> All the Canadian media use the abbreviation Cmdr for Commander. I have no idea why they don't use the abbreviation we use in the CAF.


Likely The Canadian Press style guide says so.  Mind you, if we follow the _letter_ of the GoC style guide, DND/CF writers should use "Cdr" and in my non-military government job, I should be writing "Cmdr."
</anal style guide derail>


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## Oldgateboatdriver (2 Feb 2020)

FSTO said:
			
		

> All the Canadian media use the abbreviation Cmdr for Commander. I have no idea why they don't use the abbreviation we use in the CAF.



It is because they use the nationally agreed upon reference put out by Dundurn Press in co-operation with Government Services Canada: "The Canadian Style, A Guide to Writing and Editing". Section 1.07 provides the abbreviations for ranks, and is split into two columns: DND and non-DND abbreviations.

The non-DND abreviation for Commander is Cmdr. For Commodore, no abbreviation is allowed for non-DND.


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Feb 2020)

I wonder if the CO is being pilloried to avoid exposing systemic issues in manning and training?


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## dapaterson (2 Feb 2020)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I wonder if the CO is being pilloried to avoid exposing systemic issues in manning and training?



That would never happen.

What ever happened to Paul Morneault, anyways?


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Feb 2020)

Passed away in 2018 https://ottawacitizen.remembering.ca/obituary/paul-emile-morneault-1071967215


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## dapaterson (3 Feb 2020)

That's Paul Sr, not Paul Jr, ex CO of the CAR.


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## Lumber (5 Feb 2020)

And here's the lower deck's (I think) reaction to all of this (make sure you listen at least until 1:37):

*"Smokin in the Wardroom"* 
https://youtu.be/qETCdg30tm8


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## medicineman (5 Feb 2020)

Lumber said:
			
		

> And here's the lower deck's (I think) reaction to all of this (make sure you listen at least until 1:37):
> 
> *"Smokin in the Wardroom"*
> https://youtu.be/qETCdg30tm8



 :rofl:

Needed that today.

MM


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## Humphrey Bogart (5 Feb 2020)

Lumber said:
			
		

> And here's the lower deck's (I think) reaction to all of this (make sure you listen at least until 1:37):
> 
> *"Smokin in the Wardroom"*
> https://youtu.be/qETCdg30tm8



This guy is a hero!

Edit:

So the brass are supposedly peeved off and put an APB out for this individual.  I don't really think that's the right reaction tbh.

Rather, they should acknowledge that they need to do better.


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## Navy_Pete (5 Feb 2020)

That was a pretty funny song, but was still expecting a satirical cover set to some Motley Crue.

Can't see going after the guy helping anything; even if he is in the Navy, he doesn't show his face or otherwise identify himself, so pretty dumb. Didn't say anything that wasn't public knowledge.


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## Humphrey Bogart (5 Feb 2020)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> That was a pretty funny song, but was still expecting a satirical cover set to some Motley Crue.
> 
> Can't see going after the guy helping anything; even if he is in the Navy, he doesn't show his face or otherwise identify himself, so pretty dumb. Didn't say anything that wasn't public knowledge.



I think it's the wrong approach as well.  Could have been a good opportunity to double down on the decision to remove the Comd Tm.  Why do we employ PAOs again?


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Feb 2020)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> This guy is a hero!
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...



Navy circling the wagons?


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## Jarnhamar (5 Feb 2020)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> So the brass are supposedly peeved off and put an APB out for this individual.  I don't really think that's the right reaction tbh.



I expected as much and was going to post earlier that I'm sure CFNIS has been launched.


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## Colin Parkinson (5 Feb 2020)

I have to wonder if the Politically Correct stuff is getting people to wound up, resulting in them not GAFing anymore. Does anyone get a place to smoke that is somewhat decent and as I understand it they have curtailed drinking aboard quite a bit. With no place to relieve stress people do oddball things. Coupled with the tempo they are likley under and all the stupidity that bureaucracy can throw at them. I wonder if this is the appropriate way to punish the two officer, i suspect we can't really afford to throw away those years of experience and unless they have had problematic careers, one needs to ask why the XO suddenly stop GAFing? 

Now for going after the singer, that is stupid at so many levels, let it go and it will die a natural death.


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## Humphrey Bogart (5 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I expected as much and was going to post earlier that I'm sure CFNIS has been launched.



And what an absolute waste of police resources that would be.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Feb 2020)

Someone would be seriously butt-hurt enough by this to investigate? ?  If so that person (s) need to call it a career and move back to Mommies basement.


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## Humphrey Bogart (5 Feb 2020)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Someone would be seriously butt-hurt enough by this to investigate? ?  If so that person (s) need to call it a career and move back to Mommies basement.



Amen!


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## Jarnhamar (5 Feb 2020)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> And what an absolute waste of police resources that would be.



They'll find something to charge him over. I've heard the Navy already sent out emails about it- wonder if that's accurate.


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## daftandbarmy (5 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> They'll find something to charge him over. *I've heard the Navy already sent out emails about it*- wonder if that's accurate.



Well, that's right up there with No. 1 Field Punishment  :facepalm: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_punishment


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## garb811 (5 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I expected as much and was going to post earlier that I'm sure CFNIS has been launched.


I doubt it; we can't get them to take stuff that is clearly within their mandate, they aren't going after some OS strumming in his basement who is now youTube famous. If they call MPU Esquimalt, I hope they have the fortitude to tell them to go away as well.


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## Jarnhamar (6 Feb 2020)

garb811 said:
			
		

> I doubt it; we can't get them to take stuff that is clearly within their mandate,



Gonna guess that stuff isn't a troop having the audacity to make fun of the RCL over social media. Heresy of the highest order, I'm wagering  :nod:


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## Edward Campbell (6 Feb 2020)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> This guy is a hero!
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...




Which seems to be the hardest thing to really do ...

The entire system, civil, political and military, has mastered the art of the formal apology and of "I feel your pain," and so on but it still seems to be incredibly difficult to actually, really, honestly admit that I (we), the senior leadership, screwed up. But experience teaches that:

     a. It works ~ if it is honest and sincere the lower decks (junior ranks) accept it and "forgive" the mistakes ... IF it is sincere; and

     b. It helps to get everyone onside to effect the changes that are (always) needed.


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## Eaglelord17 (6 Feb 2020)

The funniest part about it is there is only 8.5 thousand views. By making a big deal about it that's how you end up with it being a big deal.

Oh well, they are not happy until your not happy, so the beatings shall continue until morale improves.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Feb 2020)

Well summed up, E.R., but I'm going to humbly add one more bullet ...


			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The entire system, civil, political and military, has mastered the art of the formal apology and of "I feel your pain," and so on but it still seems to be incredibly difficult to actually, really, honestly admit that I (we), the senior leadership, screwed up. But experience teaches that:
> 
> a. It works ~ if it is honest and sincere the lower decks (junior ranks) accept it and "forgive" the mistakes ... IF it is sincere; and
> 
> ...


Not necessarily in the military, but I've seen situations where the right things were said, but the right things weren't done later.



			
				Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> The funniest part about it is there is only 8.5 thousand views. By making a big deal about it that's how you end up with it being a big deal.


I _hope_ some PAO who's been involved mentions that to the bosses so keen on this.


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## Weinie (6 Feb 2020)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> I think it's the wrong approach as well.  Could have been a good opportunity to double down on the decision to remove the Comd Tm.  *Why do we employ PAOs again?
> *


*
*
PAO's provide *advice*, some of which is heeded, and some disregarded, sometimes to the detriment of credibility. 

This is not a PA issue, it is a leadership issue. It isn't the first time that the CAF sought to kill the messenger.


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## Jarnhamar (6 Feb 2020)

Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> The funniest part about it is there is only 8.5 thousand views. By making a big deal about it that's how you end up with it being a big deal.
> 
> Oh well, they are not happy until your not happy, so the beatings shall continue until morale improves.



Thats how it seemed like 90% of my unit, myself included, heard about the Cpl blogging webpage.

And I love that we can be charged for liking a Facebook post.

Maybe our Navy will go after everyone who shared this, we can put the money towards a new boat.


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## Sub_Guy (6 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Thats how it seemed like 90% of my unit, myself included, heard about the Cpl blogging webpage.
> 
> And I love that we can be charged for liking a Facebook post.
> 
> Maybe our Navy will go after everyone who shared this, we can put the money towards a new boat.



Charged for liking a Facebook post?  That is a complete myth. Find me one member who was successfully charged for liking a post.  Liking, not sharing or posting crap, the physical act of the "thumbs up".

I'll be sure to save the video so I can keep it alive if it is taken down for whatever reason.


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## Jarnhamar (6 Feb 2020)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Charged for liking a Facebook post?  That is a complete myth. Find me one member who was successfully charged for liking a post.  Liking, not sharing or posting crap, the physical act of the "thumbs up".



Check your PMs fella


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## Sub_Guy (6 Feb 2020)

A charge for one like?

frig man, as I blow through my Facebook feed there are countless times where I have inadvertently liked something.

I scroll up/down with my left index finger.  It is always in the same area as the “like” button.

I think it’d be an easy fight. 

Inadvertently liked?  Was it even me?  Were my kids playing on my phone after a FaceTime with grandma?   

If I liked an inappropriate post while on a DWAN machine then I could see it.

Or if there was a pattern.  “DH you’ve liked every racist post since 2008”

The video has since been made private.   ☹️


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Feb 2020)

So leadership from the General Melchett school of thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPk43lZPkTI&list=RDnPk43lZPkTI&start_radio=1&t=11


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## daftandbarmy (6 Feb 2020)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Charged for liking a Facebook post?  That is a complete myth. Find me one member who was successfully charged for liking a post.  Liking, not sharing or posting crap, the physical act of the "thumbs up".
> 
> I'll be sure to save the video so I can keep it alive if it is taken down for whatever reason.



I had a (clearly insane) CO who tried to figure out how to charge people for not responding to his emails fast enough, or at all.

I’m in the Infantry though, so, you know....


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## Jarnhamar (6 Feb 2020)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> I think it’d be an easy fight.
> 
> Inadvertently liked?  Was it even me?  Were my kids playing on my phone after a FaceTime with grandma?


Knew someone in a similar situation. He got a civilian lawyer who basically laughed at the CAFs case. CAF backed down from a charge to RW, then IC. He probably could have got out of the IC too but he wisely gave the CAF a win. Because we all know what happens when you get egg on the CoCs face.  

It's sad we have a culture where innocent people are still pressured to accept guilt for the sake of appearance and discipline, because fighting it will piss people off and make it worse.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Feb 2020)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> I'll be sure to save the video so I can keep it alive if it is taken down for whatever reason.


Good call -- as of this post ....


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## OldSolduer (6 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> It's sad we have a culture where innocent people are still pressured to accept guilt for the sake of appearance and discipline, because fighting it will piss people off and make it worse.




It's no different out on civvie street either.


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## chrisf (7 Feb 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> It's no different out on civvie street either.



Pretty sure my manager at work can't hold a summary trial...


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## Sub_Guy (7 Feb 2020)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Good call -- as of this post ....



I missed it, it’s the first thing I checked when I left work.  It was already made private.

Good for this kid though, I certainly hope nothing comes from it.  

Perhaps the RCN will revisit how they handled this and change things (doubtful). There are so many different avenues they could have taken and they chose the worst one.  I think the best course of action would have been to ignore it 100%. 

I assume this kid was a junior NCM, however he very well could have been a commissioned member.  I hope we never find out.

We have to be better.


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## MJP (7 Feb 2020)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Perhaps the RCN will revisit how they handled this and change things (doubtful). There are so many different avenues they could have taken and they chose the worst one.  I think the best course of action would have been to ignore it 100%.



The word on the street is the RCN (at least on the CPO side of the house) are out for blood.  Furious whiny emails abound.


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## The Bread Guy (7 Feb 2020)

MJP said:
			
		

> The word on the street is the RCN (at least on the CPO side of teh house) are out for blood.


That IS sad ...


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## OldSolduer (7 Feb 2020)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> :highjack:
> Pretty sure my manager at work can't hold a summary trial...



To clarify prosecutors often pressure accused to plead out prior to trial


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## chrisf (7 Feb 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> To clarify prosecutors often pressure accused to plead out prior to trial



No doubt, they can pressure all they like, but you've still got the right to representation, and a trial with an impartial judge.

You're not going to find a civilian judge pressuring you to "take the charge" after embarrassing him or his buddies.


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## Humphrey Bogart (7 Feb 2020)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> No doubt, they can pressure all they like, but you've still got the right to representation, and a trial with an impartial judge.
> 
> You're not going to find a civilian judge pressuring you to "take the charge" after embarrassing him or his buddies.



The pressure is all part of the game.  That being said, if you have done nothing wrong, you should stand your ground.

A good lawyer would advise you to do so.  It will cost you though.


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## tomahawk6 (7 Feb 2020)

Under Canadian law can an accused waive their right to trial and let the judge decide ?


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## Weinie (7 Feb 2020)

MJP said:
			
		

> *The word on the street is the RCN (at least on the CPO side of the house) are out for blood.*  Furious whiny emails abound.



Who or what are you quoting? I know the head of PA for the Navy and she will be very interested in seeing anything that is circulating about this _on the street_ on the CPO network.


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## MJP (7 Feb 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> Who or what are you quoting? I know the head of PA for the Navy and she will be very interested in seeing anything that is circulating about this _on the street_ on the CPO network.



Beat it narc..ask the CPO network for their whiny emails


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## Weinie (7 Feb 2020)

MJP said:
			
		

> Beat it _*narc*_..ask the CPO network for their whiny emails



Excuse me? You posted that _word on the street_ was that someone was gunning for this kid. I want you to cite/prove this, because otherwise it is bullshit and you made it up.


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## MJP (7 Feb 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> Excuse me? You posted that _word on the street_ was that someone was gunning for this kid. I want you to cite/prove this, because otherwise it is bullshit and you made it up.



You are excused...


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## Weinie (7 Feb 2020)

Really. That's your response. I sit in on a group that daily discusses all of the issues that are of importance to the CAF. At no time has this issue been raised. 

So, your impropriety notwithstanding, put up or shut up.


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## Jarnhamar (7 Feb 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> Really. That's your response. I sit in on a group that daily discusses all of the issues that are of importance to the CAF. At no time has this issue been raised.
> 
> So, your impropriety notwithstanding, put up or shut up.



With all due respect my friend I wanna say those groups probably see and hear what they want to hear and not what's happening at ground level.

You know, like when a general comes around and troops are strongly advised not to ask questions and say everything is good to go when asked.
"troops are happy everything appears great" 

Suggesting someone with MJP's posting history is making stuff up is wildly out in left field.


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## MJP (7 Feb 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> Really. That's your response. I sit in on a group that daily discusses all of the issues that are of importance to the CAF. At no time has this issue been raised.
> 
> So, your impropriety notwithstanding, put up or shut up.



Meh. Good for you on sitting on such an important council.   Tell them they should focus on real issues.   

Take my impropriety on an unofficial website and shove it.

If you want the official answer get it from the right sources.   My sources will stay silent.   Suffice to say the CPO network is livid.


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## NavyShooter (7 Feb 2020)

Oops.  That was supposed to be a -300...clicked too fast...

Be careful who you waggle a finger at....some folks know that of which they speak.

NS


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## Weinie (7 Feb 2020)

OK. Our Branch chief is a CPO1. I talk to him daily and will ask him to suss out what is being communicated on the drums.

I also deal with disinformation on a daily basis and this fits seems to fit squarely within that realm. I will apologize profusely and publicly on this forum if I have castigated MJP improperly. 

You will see in an earlier post that I stated that often the CAF shoots the messenger. After 36 years in this outfit, I have seen far too many times when hyperbole and innuendo achieve the opposite effect, and create a fictitious situation that doesn't exist. 

Notwithstanding folks disregard for where I work and the level of SA that we have, the local/tactical becomes strategic in a millisecond, and we are actually very aware of* real * issues.


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## MJP (7 Feb 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> OK. Our Branch chief is a CPO1. I talk to him daily and will ask him to suss out what is being communicated on the drums.
> 
> I also deal with disinformation on a daily basis and this fits seems to fit squarely within that realm. I will apologize profusely and publicly on this forum if I have castigated MJP improperly.
> 
> ...



Great post and thank you for the clarity.  I apologize for my snarkiness but I refuse to allow the institution to intrude on an unofficial  platform.   We need to be held accountable as a public institution that we're are using public resources properly. Witch hunts of people that may or not be of CAF members relating to a satire/parody song is not a good use of public time.

That said the emails exist and I encourage anyone to ATIP them.


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## Weinie (7 Feb 2020)

MJP,

I was not trying to start a fight here, rather, if what you have stated is true, then I have the ear of a person who I believe can make this stop in a heartbeat.

I was well aware of the notification proclaiming that the CO and XO were to be removed. Second and third order effects considerations did not go beyond that. Believe me when I say that there is no intent at the strat level to track down the originator/producer of the video, and if local CPO's are livid, they will be disabused of that emotion very quickly.


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## daftandbarmy (8 Feb 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> MJP,
> 
> I was not trying to start a fight here, rather, if what you have stated is true, then I have the ear of a person who I believe can make this stop in a heartbeat.
> 
> I was well aware of the notification proclaiming that the CO and XO were to be removed. Second and third order effects considerations did not go beyond that. Believe me when I say that there is no intent at the strat level to track down the originator/producer of the video, and if local CPO's are livid, they will be disabused of that emotion very quickly.



Just chiming in here to stand up for emotionless CPOs, and similar ranks in other arms and services. They're great at counter-balancing histrionics from people like me


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## AirDet (2 Oct 2021)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Ahh, the infamous "jetty jumpers" I've heard about?


Except the term Jetty Jumper used to be specific to the Air Dets as we only did high readiness ships.


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## Navy_Pete (2 Oct 2021)

AirDet said:


> Except the term Jetty Jumper used to be specific to the Air Dets as we only did high readiness ships.


As opposed to sailors taking a RHIB in from a ship on the way in, to get on a ship on the way out so they can meet some of the critical crewing requirements? Or coming alongside Friday and walking your kit to another ship leaving Monday? Have seen both more than once, and it's still happening, despite how many of those critical positions we've cut from the min required (while also reducing the training/experience and blasting people through the ranks... what could go wrong?).


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## CBH99 (3 Oct 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> despite how many of those critical positions we've cut from the min required (while also reducing the training/experience and blasting people through the ranks... what could go wrong?).


Ummmmm… _cough_ 7th fleet wrong? _cough_


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## Navy_Pete (3 Oct 2021)

CBH99 said:


> Ummmmm… _cough_ 7th fleet wrong? _cough_


Ha, those amateurs still do regular preventative maintenance! When you really want to live on the edge, you only partially do the critical maintenance, and then, you know, assume things will be fine.


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## dapaterson (3 Oct 2021)

As long as things go wrong when someone else is in command, or you can bury the BoI after the massive fire you couldn't keep under wraps, where's the problem, really?


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## CBH99 (3 Oct 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> Ha, those amateurs still do regular preventative maintenance! When you really want to live on the edge, you only partially do the critical maintenance, and then, you know, assume things will be fine.


Ooooohhhhhhhhh…. 🤯

You mean their ships only look like that AFTER the game of “bumper ships” is over?  Well in that case they’re doing quite well!

Partial critical maintenance?  Sounds like the CAF should bring back that old motto “Live The Adventure!”   but put a disclaimer in super small writing along the bottom 😈💡


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Oct 2021)

This story is back in the media again.


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## Halifax Tar (12 Oct 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> This story is back in the media again.



Ya I read the article.  I'm not sure as to the point of its existence.  It really adds nothing of value.


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## daftandbarmy (12 Oct 2021)

Halifax Tar said:


> Ya I read the article.  I'm not sure as to the point of its existence.  It really adds nothing of value.



Unless your 'value add' is generally negative, of course


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Oct 2021)

From what I gather in the media industry , it can be a bit of : "Yea you were famous but what have you done for me lately?" from the editor. so produce something that gets clicks or starve.


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## Halifax Tar (12 Oct 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Unless your 'value add' is generally negative, of course



_




_


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## Bruce Monkhouse (13 Oct 2021)

Just saw the video.......well done lad.

EDIT: Rereading this thread I guess I had seen it, guess it wasn't memorable enough, so the Navy brass made it surface again?  That's how I'm seeing it....


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## dimsum (13 Oct 2021)

Bruce Monkhouse said:


> EDIT: Rereading this thread I guess I had seen it, guess it wasn't memorable enough, so the Navy brass made it surface again?  That's how I'm seeing it....


Or the ATI request took this long.


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## FSTO (13 Oct 2021)

ATI, we were discussing this item this morning. The usual suspect trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.


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## ModlrMike (13 Oct 2021)

Speaking of ATI, did anyone see the big giant ATI regarding UDI? I wonder where that's going.


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## dimsum (13 Oct 2021)

ModlrMike said:


> Speaking of ATI, did anyone see the big giant ATI regarding UDI? I wonder where that's going.


UDI?


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## ModlrMike (13 Oct 2021)

Unit Disciplinary Investigation


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## OldSolduer (13 Oct 2021)

ModlrMike said:


> Unit Disciplinary Investigation


And the reasoning for a UDI?

A young soldier I'm acquainted with who has moved on to Toronto FD taped his TICs in Afghanistan then went on TV on a pretty well rated show.

IIRC he got 7 Days Extra Work and Drill for his efforts - along with being told "next time you do this consult us first".


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## Navy_Pete (13 Oct 2021)

dimsum said:


> Or the ATI request took this long.


If anyone is curious, you can see all the DND related ATIs here, and request a copy for yourself if you want; lots of fishing trips, and some other weirdly specific ones.

Completed Access to Information Requests | Open Government, Government of Canada


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## Colin Parkinson (13 Oct 2021)

When people asked us for information we could not give out. We would point them in the direction of the ATIP office and often suggest they ATIP a specific file number, a few weeks later we get the request, copy the information and it goes back to the ATIP office for clearance. Reduced the workload for everyone.


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## Jarnhamar (13 Oct 2021)

Did the navy ever charge anyone for watching the video? That was a pretty solid threat.


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## Navy_Pete (15 Oct 2021)

This popped up on Vice as well, but it also included the ATI release. I noticed that someone didn't go through and delete all the email addresses, so every single person there is now has their forces email address in the public domain. The email chains are pretty funny to read, but I'm on Team Capt(N) Peschke here; he's the only one that showed a bit of common sense and agree it should be required viewing in the weirdroom as some precautionary humble pie.

Hopefully the spam filter is up to snuff, it will be busy! That seems like a big mistake on the ATI office side, but that's par for the course. Hilariously they seem to have censored the actual video title, which is a bit baffling.

Canada's Navy Furious Over Sailor's Parody of Mid-Tier Mötley Crüe Song


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