# I'm an absolute idoit...



## ddkariz (5 Dec 2007)

Hello everyone this would be my first post, please excuse me for the long post, thank you.  I applied for ROTP long time ago and got accepted.  To best describe my self, I was a nerd during high school.  I've never participated in any athletic events nor did anything along the line that required leadership, or ever had a job.  However, my marks in high school were really high and I got accepted into RMC's Engineering as a Signals Officer.  At the time I had no interest at all in the military, I just wanted education, and RMC sounded pretty cool.  I went to IAP and of course, I struggled.  I was last in platoon in nearly everything, and I had absolutely no interest in weapons, combat and such (the only thing I enjoyed was drills).  I never ran more than a mile before IAP, however, during the 6k runs in the morning, I would NEVER drop out.  During the last weeks at Farnham I failed at Grizzly first time with an 18, second time with a 20, and third time with a 17.  Although I was satisfied to know that I was not meant to be a soldier and should stay where I was, I was really bothered to know that some of the people less competent than me have passed and moved on to RMC.  I went to PRB and they convinced me that I was not going to get recoursed.  However, the officer that interviewed me for PRB have told me one thing: “If in two years, you see yourself more mature and still want to do this, you can reapply.”  At the time I thought I can care less, I was a civilian and I was free to do anything I wanted.  Since I was released on 24 of September, and my classes already started 2 weeks ago, I thought that I work for the Semester and apply for Universities next year, but no, my parents already registered for my backup plan and sent me to University of Waterloo’s Bioinformatics program.  I could’ve done well, but I had no desire in applying myself after and played video games with friends there and failed courses.  After that my parents gave up hope on me and I began working as a heavy physical laborer.  This is the first time I ever worked; the work environment was like hell.  I made a decent $14 an hour but I barely made it through the days with 12 hours and 2 breaks.  I had no option of quitting as I had loans to pay back.  After about a week or so, I started getting used to the job and 60lb and 70lb of non stop carrying didn’t seem as bad as it was at first.  At this point all the things I did at IAP seemed like a joke.  Although I got used to the physical aspect of the job, it was very mentally degrading.  I was treated like an idiot, since I had no education.  I also felt horrible, since I had so many hopes for my future.  I felt very stupid of letting 2 wonderful opportunities slip by.  I loved sciences, and I felt that my life was incomplete without education…  I applied and got accepted to part-time studies at a lower level institute of Ryerson University in Computer Engineering right now I’m still first year.  I am doing very well in my studies and I am on my way of finding a better future.  However, since I left IAP, I really miss the military style of life.  When ever I see a man in the CADPATs I would turn around and curse myself for what I’ve done.  These days, I read about military, I dream about military, I know for sure that no matter what this is what I wanted to do for my future.  I’ve gained new perspective of life and can say that I’ve matured a whole lot since than.  I volunteer as a Computers Instructor, and I frequently go to the gym.  However, I know after I graduate from University, I doubt I would want to stay civilian.  To me, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, prouder than serving this country.  I also REALLY want to go to RMC if possible, but I don’t think RMC would accept me easily again, because of an academic scar.  I did hear about a CMR reopening recently, if that is a way of proving my academic competence, then so be it.  However, I didn’t think that I could convince any recruiter that after Failure of IAP AND failing courses at University made me a better person.  However, I did learn a lot of things, and learned a lot of hard ships.  Hell, I was even homeless for sometime when my parents gave up on me and kicked me out of the house.  I know that if I went back no matter what I would give my 100%, because I would do everything with great interest and pride rather than my arrogance and stupidity back than.  Does anyone see any options for me?  Is it even possible for me to reapply for the forces and go to CMR?  Thanks.


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## Roy Harding (5 Dec 2007)

The title of your thread is extremely astute.

Can you break your rant into readable, discernible, and logical paragraphs?

It's very hard to read and follow in its' current format.


Roy


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## MAJONES (5 Dec 2007)

CMR and RMC operate as two different campuses of the same school, so when you apply to ROTP you are applying to both.  The one you end up going to depends on the academic program you are in.  Given your situation I'd advise applying for ROTP undergrad.  That is the program where the military will pick up the tab for your tuition at a civilian university, then you owe us some obligatory service afterwords.
As for your past, that will form a hurdle.  I will be blunt, you will have to prove that you have gotten your act together.  What you do have going for you is that you are willing to be a SIG O.  We are short on those.  If you have changed your mind about SIG O then I would suggest a Navy Engineering or AEC as we are short on those.  I would not suggest INF, ARMD, or ENG as those are all pretty full right now.  I would especially advise against applying PLT because we are past full in the deptartment (at least from a recruiting stand point)
Hope this helps, if you have any questions message me.


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## medaid (5 Dec 2007)

Other then what Roy said, IMO you've got the right attitude this time. Recognizing ones faults and continually work to improve on them is one of the principles of leadership that you will learn during your BOTC phase of becoming an officer. There is no shame in your past. When people are young, they make mistakes. I've made many, and I realize the mistakes I've made to minimize the chances of that ever occurring again. 

Set your mind to it. When asked during your interview, tell the truth. Yes it may hinder you, but prove that you have the will and the desire to become an officer in the Canadian Forces. 

We need leaders, but we realize that no one is perfect. To admit fault, to take responsibility and improve are a qualities we look highly upon. Good luck with your application.


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## Roy Harding (5 Dec 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Other then what Roy said, ...



Roy's just lazy.  

He kind of expects that when someone has something they think is worth communicating, they'll actually make the reading of it easy for the reader.  Maybe he's just a dinosaur.

In light of later comments, I've tried to re-read your original post.  I found it wasn't worth my effort.  That would be YOUR problem - fix it.



Dinosaur Roy


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## Greymatters (5 Dec 2007)

The enthusiasm is commendable, but do you really have to attend RMC?  You can get a degree at any acceptable institution and still apply to the CF, or even work in the reserves at the same time as you attend university.


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## JBoyd (5 Dec 2007)

Or perhaps go for CEOTP if you score well enough on your CFAT to be eligible for any open CEOTP trades


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## vonGarvin (5 Dec 2007)

For a person who received high marks in school, I'm rather shocked at your lack to form a coherent paragraph.  I am not saying this to deride you; rather, it is a warning to improve if you wish to be a member of the CF: officer or non-commissioned member.  The ability to communicate effectively is vital, especially in the written form.  Therefore, I would recommend that you do whatever it takes to improve your ability to communicate in written form.  That would be my advice to you.


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## CFR FCS (5 Dec 2007)

The only real way to answer your questions is to visit the nearest CFRC and put an application in. Talk to a recruiter or if possible an MCC. You can apply to RMC even if you are part way through your programme at a civilian University. There are LOTS of options to explore so, get an application started and see what happens.


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## Lumber (5 Dec 2007)

ddkariz said:
			
		

> Although I was satisfied to know that I was not meant to be a soldier and should stay where I was, I was really bothered to know that some of the people less competent than me have passed and moved on to RMC.



Having failed three times, I'm not sure you have the credentials to imply that those who did pass were less competent than yourself. In what way were they less competent? IAP assesses your leadership. If you failed, thrice, maybe it isn't them who are incompetent?


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## Lumber (5 Dec 2007)

Jingleman Coal-Getter said:
			
		

> Therefore, I would recommend that you do whatever it takes to improve your ability to communicate in written form.  That would be my advice to you.



Especially now that the RMC application process requires that you write an essay. 

Poor engineers....


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Dec 2007)

> I was really bothered to know that some of the people less competent than me have passed and moved on to RMC.



All I can see is that one statement, how arrogant of you....


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## Nfld Sapper (5 Dec 2007)

NCdt Lumber said:
			
		

> Especially now that the RMC application process requires that you write an essay.
> 
> Poor engineers....



Hey I resent that remark. 

Me fail English, that's unpossible!  ;D


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## JBoyd (6 Dec 2007)

for me, it was the spelling mistake in the title... that and the mess of the original post has convinced me that it is not worth reading at this point.

And after reading the quote that Ex-Dragoon used I don't suppose there was much weight to the post as it is.


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## stefwills (6 Dec 2007)

I had a similar experience. Good grades at the start of my final year in high school. I had my ROTP application all filled out. From the looks of it, I was a great candidate. Several family deaths and the loss of my best friend was all I needed to measure just how much I DIDN'T want ROTP. My marks bombed and every offer from university was withdrawn. I was forced to go to college. No offence intended to anyone in college. As I breezed through the first set of midterms (85% and up), I soon realized what I threw away.

       Now I find myself more motivated than ever, convinced that I belong in the CF. I toughed it out when it looked like there was no end to what was going on. My best advice to you, is to never give up. I post on here regularly and I know what it's like to be put down. So gain every bit of knowledge from everyone on here. Afterall, we're all in this together, so maybe one day I'll see you at BOTC or IAP (I won't be going to RMC as I am applying to nursing). Just remember not to give up, I didn't and I am more than certain I have what it takes regardless of what comes our way.

Cheers, and good luck to you.


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## ddkariz (6 Dec 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> All I can see is that one statement, how arrogant of you....


Sorry, that WAS very arrogant of me.  Mind you I was referring to my metal state back then.  I do know that I became worse than the very people I was insulting back then in IAP.  The reason that I thought I was better off in University of Waterloo was the fact that I thought all of these military minded people were fools, the guy that narrowly passed the Grizzly was even worse, trying his best for something I made fun of.  This is the very thing that I came to respect now.  Those people were not there for free education; they were willing to put their lives on the line for something important.

My English definitely needs to improve.  I've always had trouble with courses like English and Biology.  I've always used excuses like this being my fourth language like I did in my last interview to get by, but now I realized that there is no excuse, I could've studied harder, I could've applied my self in the courses.  I am doing my best to improve by taking University level English and such.  After all that has happened in my life I did realize that cockiness and unappreciative nature of mine has gotten the best of me.  There is still some of it left in me, however, after seeing my self worse than those who I used to make fun of or those who I never thought I would become has taught me to think twice. 

Thank you for the replies, but I was here simply to share a story from my perspective at a certain point of my life.  I wasn't trying to offend you or anything.

  I did prove my self a moron once again with a title like that and an incoherent crap of an essay pack into one paragraph.  I can understand why you wouldn't want to read this.


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## stefwills (6 Dec 2007)

I'm no expert, but I do believe you have to right mindset now. Some are here for the free education, and some are here for exactly what you said, to put their lives on the line for something they believe in. I know I am here to save lives as a nurse in the field, it's all I want to do and if the CF dosn't see it in me, I'll apply next year. 
    
     You seem to be thinking alot better now, and from what you have said, I think you will do just fine.

Good luck!


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## AmphibousAssult (3 Jan 2008)

If this person is whom I think it is, I was on your IAP Mr. Kariz. I can honestly say that on the IAP that Mr. Kariz attended people who should under no circumstances have passed somehow managed to do so. Despite the lack of grammar (mines shit too) and a few remarks in his post which we could write off as a bit of a rant, it does sound to me as if you have matured greatly from when I was your FTP on IAP. Having previous experience in the reserves before I came to IAP was a great advantage for me to have, it also gave me a bit of perspective with which to gauge the performance of myself and my peers. Honestly Mr. Kariz if you are whom I think you are I was quite disturbed by your performance on IAP. Your best bet at finding a career in the CF would probably be to attend a Civilian university, work hard, get a degree, and apply as a Sig O. In that time do as others have suggested and join the reserves.


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## Meridian (4 Jan 2008)

ddkariz said:
			
		

> Those people were not there for free education; they were willing to put their lives on the line for something important.



Well, I'm not sure I would go that far. I wasn't on your IAP, but I can attest that quite a few of the RMC colleagues I was with during my IAP WERE there for the free education.  Or the free pilot training.   Of course, there were many who were there for the right reasons as well.   Cest la vie.

If I were you, Id be considering these 5 options:

1 - Apply ROTP.  This may or may not be hard for you depending on your recent grades (which shows youve turned it around, or not), your essay, interview, etc.    I wouldn't count on RMC, and as a matter of fact, if I were you, I'd push Civilian University so as not to throw away any credits you already have attained. That's just me.

2. - Apply CEOTP.   If you want to be in engineering, this may or may not be more difficult as not all Eng trades are CEOTP eligible.  Also, from what CFRCs have told me, this is a very competitive program given the usual number of spots, and the military seems a bit cautious with this program.

3 - Apply to the Reserves, either as RESO or as an NCM.  See if you really do like it, and build the leadership skills there.

4 - Complete your degree (you need it anyway to be an officer) with no ties to the military, and apply DEO when you are done, with the added maturity and stability that will bring you.

5 - Go NCM.  You can do this even with a degree.  You don't HAVE to be an officer, and you can get the military environment you crave without the leadership pressures.  If you stand out and show leadership potential, then you can move up the ranks and either CFR or work hard to be a great SrNCM.

Best of luck with your choices.


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## dimsum (4 Jan 2008)

Meridian said:
			
		

> 1 - Apply ROTP.  This may or may not be hard for you depending on your recent grades (which shows youve turned it around, or not), your essay, interview, etc.    I wouldn't count on RMC, and as a matter of fact, if I were you, I'd push Civilian University so as not to throw away any credits you already have attained. That's just me.
> 
> 3 - Apply to the Reserves, either as RESO or as an NCM.  See if you really do like it, and build the leadership skills there.



I agree with Meridian, except that I'd suggest you apply to the Reserves first.  Go to the local Comms Sqn and see what Sig Os do...considering there are threads in this site saying that people don't know what their actual job is like and wind up not liking it, I would highly suggest you "test drive" the military (so to speak) without any obligatory service before applying to ROTP.  And, if you like it, you can always switch easily.

Of course, if you don't have a Comms squadron nearby, then forget what I just said.    :-\


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## NCRCrow (4 Jan 2008)

Join Katimavik! You can serve your country and get off your parents couch! 
http://www.katimavik.org/Subsection/index/id/85

"In addition to their work projects, Katimavik participants benefit from a learning program that focuses on leadership, official languages, the environment, cultural discovery and a healthy lifestyle."

I appreciate your candid post, but did you ever blow it!


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## ddkariz (8 Jan 2008)

First of all, please excuse my rant at the first part; I was very emotional that day. (drunk)  Basically, why I failed IAP is mainly my lack of interest and respect for the military.  I paid no attention during the explanation for task procedure, and everything felt like a pain.  I deserved to fail; actually I wanted to fail, so that I had a good reason for my parents to return home. (such coward I was)
I did fuck up in Biology at first, but now I know that I enjoy Computer Engineering which I am currently taking, and if Sig O is anything that will actually utilize this education, then this it is for me.  It's a little late for RMC next year, but I'm gonna try applying for reserves soon.  Apparently there are a lot Infantry and Artillery Regs in Toronto.
The reason that military (especially the army) has became such an interest for me is that I've talk to some of the most hardcore soldiers I've seen during the snowbird air show.  "Them birdies might look pretty, but when the shit hits the fan, whose the first to fucking fight?  INFANTRY, ORRAAAHH!"  Since then, I had an enormous respect for the men and women who fight on the front lines.  If I have the combat ability, I would join the infantry right now, but I know that I would only be a burden that way.  I am confident with compters, which is why I thought I at least help out these extremely brave men and women with reliable information.


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## IntlBr (8 Jan 2008)

I'm not going to lie - posting drunk is a surefire way to reduce the credibility of your posts.


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## dimsum (8 Jan 2008)

ddkariz said:
			
		

> Apparently there are a lot Infantry and Artillery Regs in Toronto.



If you're looking to become a Signals Officer, I'd suggest 709 Comms Squadron in Fort York Armoury.


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## ddkariz (8 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the advice, and uhhh...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 IntlBr, I was kinda joking about the drunk part. (I enjoy using satire , even if it was unsuccessful  :-[)  However I was feeling damn emotional, which is basically what drunks are like.


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## Meridian (8 Jan 2008)

ddkariz said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice, and uhhh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Either way, you are certainly doing a bang-up job of proving your original point. (See title).


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## ddkariz (9 Jan 2008)

Let's not bring this to the level of flame wars, but I know I made a f*** load of mistakes in the rant; it's a f***ing rant.  I'm not trying to write some University level essay here, just trying to let out some of my feelings and share a story and at the same time get some responses.  Yes, it was stupid of me to screw up the topic too, but I am surprised that they would use revisionist prevention on this SMF forum, this is my first time seeing this feature in act too.  I'm not too familiar with the rules around here, but if rants are against the rules and grammar error = flame war, then I'm terribly sorry for making this topic.  There were really helpful people which I appreciate, then you got the others... if "I don't want to read this" is your reply, then why even bother?  I feel like I just made a Uwe Boll movie, and you guys are IMDB.


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## aesop081 (9 Jan 2008)

ddkariz said:
			
		

> but I am surprised that they would use revisionist prevention on this SMF forum, this is my first time seeing this feature in act too.



Oh we love that feature here.....when someone says something realy dumb, they just cant pretend it didnt happen.


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## Roy Harding (9 Jan 2008)

ddkariz said:
			
		

> ... I'm not too familiar with the rules around here...



Here you go:

Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.

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Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf


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To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


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## stefwills (9 Jan 2008)

I'm going to have to side with ddkariz here. He was emotional on that day, and yes, he should not have enlightenend us with his delightful rant. But nonetheless, I still think if the people on here show any representation of the Canadian Forces, you've done a poor job. We are civilians here, ddkariz and myself, so until the day we are sworn in, it would be nice if the smart remarks could stay on the sidelines. And I know this site is "unofficial", so even if you don't represent the Canadian Forces, you don't make it sound all that appealing.

The Canadian Forces are supposed to be a team non? Some would call it their family. Friends and family do not treat their family this way.

Sure, if you want, pick on me too, but I am on defending someone here and I think he deserves every bit of respect as anyone else. He made a mistake, and one of the great characteristics of a leader is someone who can admit their faults and improve upon them, is it not?

And I'm sure ddkariz, and myself included, could find a better paying job in the civilian world. Heck, I've seen information saying I could make almost 20,000$ more annually if I went to work in a civilian hospital. I chose to apply to ROTP because I feel it is the least I can do for three generations of my family, and hundreds of thousands of other families who put their lives on the line.

I know what is said on here is not going to deter me one bit, but to someone it could be the deciding factor, and you could lose a great leader.

So there is MY rant, punish me whoever you like, I'm sticking up for ddkariz.


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## Loachman (9 Jan 2008)

Part of the problem that the two of you are facing here - and may well in the CF for real - is that many of us have been in for many years and seen many genuine idiots, which rather tends to reduce our patience for anybody displaying any such traits. Couple that with the fact that the only impression that we can form about you is based upon the words that you write and nothing else, and your image suffers even more, rightly or wrongly.

Part of the process in early training is to weed out those who are unsuitable; in that regard, people are expected to perform to the levels required or depart. Time, instructor effort, and money are all in short supply so there are few second chances. It's not exactly a nurturing environment, as that is not the type of environment that we encounter in the type of work that we do. Meet the standards, though, and you will find acceptance.

While some  here may be a little more tactful than others, the plain truth is that, as has been pointed out, clear communication is expected. It is absolutely critical in our jobs, and we come to judge everyone by their communications skills - with allowance, of course, for those communicating in English when that is not their mother tongue.

A few minutes of proofreading and using the spell checker prior to hitting "send" will work wonders.

That aside, Mr Kariz, it would appear to me that you have done a fair amount of growing up recently. The advice that you have been given is pretty solid. Visit your local recruiting centre and talk to the recruiters. Be honest and open about your past experience. Proving yourself in a reserve unit for a couple of years while "test-driving" the CF would definitely help.

Good luck.


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## Sig_Des (9 Jan 2008)

stefwills said:
			
		

> I know what is said on here is not going to deter me one bit, but to someone it could be the deciding factor, and you could lose a great leader.



I'm just going to comment on this.

Something that you learn very quickly if you stick with the military is the fact that you definitely need to have thick skin. Especially if you want to become an officer and earn the respect of those who serve under you.

If you (I don't mean you specifically, but those potential leaders you say could be deterred) find that people giving advice, or calling it like it is on the internet, painful, you will find life in the CF, especially in the initial training phases, very, very difficult.


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## stefwills (9 Jan 2008)

I have grown a thick skin. From years of playing on a soccer team taught me to stand up for people when something was wrong. And for the record, there was another post before ddkariz's post when he talked about flame wars. You know who you are and only you know why you deleted it. It was certainly not about his spelling either. I have been around the military lifestyle my entire life, my father was a Navigator. I personally know what to expect.

I just find that when you (no one in particular) insult people, especially on here, what are you going to achieve? I would not be surprised if someone came on here, saw someone post an ignorant reply, and decided on that alone not to pursue a career in the CF. Now I'm not saying they should base it solely on that, but what if. Are we all not here to represent the CF.

I just wanted to say that because I have been on here trying to get information since September, and I have seen on several occasions people with smart-ass remarks or replies. For some of us it is not as easy as "Go to your recruiting centre" or "RELAX, stop worrying". Comments like these don't help.

Anyone who has an opinion on this can send me a PM and continue on here.

Cheers,


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## Roy Harding (9 Jan 2008)

stefwills:

Your profile says you are a Nursing student.  My youngest son is an RN - he works the ICU at the University of Alberta hospital.

Whilst obtaining his degree, he was required to work in various disciplines for short times throughout the academic year, and during the summer break.  He worked palliative care, community health, emerg, ICU - amongst others which have escaped me at the moment.

The thing he noticed, and told me about, was that each discipline had its own culture associated with it.  And the rougher the discipline (ie - palliative, ICU, emerg), the rougher the culture.  Until he got used to each one he found the culture and associated (usually black) humour extremely hard to fit in with.

You and ddkariz are neophytes here - and not used to the culture, either it's expectations or allowances which may be granted.  You are strangers here - and understandably confused when the rules for social intercourse with which you are accustomed are NOT the same rules you find in this culture.

This is not unique to the military - LEOs, Engineers, Lawyers, Health Care professionals, ANY identifiable group has an identifiable culture associated with it.  And each culture has sub-cultures within it (as I outlined above regarding Nursing).  ANY outsider (ie - non-member of the culture) attempting to join that group is going to misunderstand the mores and norms associated with it.

That's all that's happening here - as outlined by Loachman above, you have entered into a sub-society which values accuracy and precision in all things - including communications.

And we're a rough bunch.


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## aesop081 (9 Jan 2008)

stefwills said:
			
		

> "Go to your recruiting centre" or "RELAX, stop worrying". Comments like these don't help.



And spoonfeeding people doesn't help either.

I'm not here to represent the CF. I'm here to talk about various subjects with people. I state my opinion when i feel the need to and will offer help when i feel it is warranted. This is done on my personal time and i dont beleive i owe you anything because you think i should be representing the CF here. Loachman gave you a pretty good run as to why things are the way they are here. You are telling people to think before they post, maybe you should be getting on ddkariz's case too.


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## stefwills (9 Jan 2008)

That is true and I respect that in every way. But as posted before, you guys have seen a great deal of idiots in the forces and I don't doubt that one bit.

I am not expecting anything, your post seems to think that I do. I work for everything I have, or will ever obtain.

On that note, upon registration on this site, it was clearly stated that this is not an official government site. So I think it should be the recruiters jobs to weed out the "unfit". I am not saying any of you are not recruiters, nor am I saying you don't know what you are talking about. You have a great deal more knowledge about everything in here than I do. The fact remains that this is not a recruiting centre and the "weeding" out should be left to them non? You are here, though, to give us the straight stuff, and I acknowledge that. That is why I am here, because everyone here knows so much about a career and lifestyle I am more than ready to embark upon.

My main point was to shed light upon those who are not here to help. Those who insult us does not give us a good impression. You are not here to "recruit" us. There is a FINE line between someone saying "I didn't read your post because of your lack of competence, come back when you learn proper English" and saying "Hey, Your post did not make sense, and the sentence structure could be improved." Wait for us to go to BOTC or BMQ before tearing us down. For know I think it is an opportune time to brag, and enlighten us, of the many wonders the CF has to offer. I know all this, and I'm not even in the CF.

Cheers,


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## Bruce Monkhouse (9 Jan 2008)

This tail has been chased to death...
locked.


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