# More on Pat Tillman



## Genesis (29 Apr 2004)

She‘s about as whacked out as they come. Let‘s stay locked up in our country, never risk anything to help anyone, and then everyone will like us. What a nut job.


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## 48Highlander (29 Apr 2004)

The sad thing is, Pat Tillman lost his life while fighting to protect people like her.  Wether or not the war is legitemate is immaterial....the fact that he was willing to give up a life of gauranteed luxury in order to risk his life trying to defend the rights and lives of his fellow citizens....that‘s what makes the man a hero.  That some over-opinionated and under-educated college student fails to realise this is not at all surprising, and not important either.  The rest of us will honour his memory.


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## tabernac (29 Apr 2004)

> That some over-opinionated and under-educated college student fails to realise this is not at all surprising, and not important either.


Very sad, but very true. RIP


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## muskrat89 (29 Apr 2004)

Major - what was the source, for that? I‘d like to dig into it a little....


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## condor888000 (29 Apr 2004)

Yes, she‘s a self-importent boob, but you do have to admit that if Pat Tillman had left high school or university to fight, there wouldn‘t have been such coverage on CNN.


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## muskrat89 (29 Apr 2004)

I meant is it a verifiable source (news article, website, etc.), or something that you got forwarded, via e-mail?


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## condor888000 (29 Apr 2004)

Ah, a self-importent university female boob. No wonder she hates war and everything that goes along with it. I have a feeling that if the U.S. had invaded Peurto Rico instead, she would be happy that they were in charge. 
Wait a second, I‘m not attacking the U.S! Something‘s terribley wrong!!!!


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## kruger (29 Apr 2004)

Why are educated people against war, whats wrong with them? I mean, if it weren‘t for armed conflict our industry would probably seize to exist. 
They need to understand that war is in mans nature, Tillman was one of many soldiers fighting bravely to keep our SUV‘s going, I salute and thank him for being able to afford my Oldsmobile Bravada.


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## kruger (29 Apr 2004)

I meant "young educated people".


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## 48Highlander (29 Apr 2004)

Any rational person is against war.  The "young educated people" don‘t protest war, they protest US actions.  I didn‘t see too many "young educated people" marching around with signs demanding that the Rwanda massacres be stopped at once, or that Saddam Hussein cease killing Kurds.  But every time the US moves a finger, there seems to be a plague of useless ****s ready to protest.  Why do they do it?  My personal view on the matter is that it‘s just an extension of teen angst.  Teens rebel against their parents, college students rebel against the government.  Most eventually grow up and settle down.

Anyway, there‘s a big difference between going to college and being educated.  You might want to rethink calling them "young educated people".


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## casing (29 Apr 2004)

> ...to insert himself into a conflict he didn‘t need to insert himself into...


She obviously wasn‘t about to do it.  As we know, if everyone had that attitude North America would likely be a German-speaking region.



> It wasn‘t like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power...


Was this woman in a coma on 9/11? Boy, people who are educated and yet so blind to the real world just fry my arse. What state does she suppose Peurto Rico would be in if the US wasn‘t it‘s big, caring brother.  This type of article makes me shake my head so much that I need to end this response now... .. .


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## kruger (29 Apr 2004)

48Highlander, agreed. I get a lot of these granola-crunching morons here at U of T that predominantly don‘t have a clue on what‘s going on behind the scenes in some authoritarian countries, while exuting rage over news of US military actions.

P.S.
I was quicker than you, at correcting myself.


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## Padraig OCinnead (29 Apr 2004)

Napalm,

Tillman wasn‘t there for your SUV you friggin boob. I hope your mil experience stays the same as it‘s stated in your profile.

Condor88800

Your post with regards to "...admit that if Pat Tillman had left high school or university to fight, there wouldn‘t have been such coverage on CNN" is sadly true. The 100+ American soldiers and marines who died there just this month alone deserved as much status and attention as he did. Christ! A man, clearly talented and intelligent, gives up a multi-million dollar job that keeps him in the limelight in the USA to give back to his country and this greasy civvie fugnut student has the gall to write this about him. I hope she chokes tonight on her vomit in some UMass drinking party.


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## kruger (29 Apr 2004)

Ummmm, yes he was...
But let‘s stick with your more passionate version.

P.S.
Unfortunately for you Padraig, army recruiters found me suitable for military service as a infantryman, and regardless of my views, I attempt to be the best performing soldier in my unit.


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## 48Highlander (29 Apr 2004)

Attempt, eh?  Get used to seing the phrase "Nice guy, tries hard, bottom third"


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## Genesis (29 Apr 2004)

A link to a CNN article about the story.

 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/04/29/bc.fbn.umass.tillmanfla.ap/index.html?cnn=yes


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## Freight_Train (29 Apr 2004)

I found it very difficult to read Rene Gonzalez‘ comments, and in fact did not finish reading them.  I made it through he first paragraph and moved on.  Not worth my or anyone else's time.  He was, by all those that knew him, an outstanding human being and someone who will be sorely missed.  Rest in Peace.
Greg


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## Jungle (29 Apr 2004)

Pat Tillman lived by a set of values and a code of ethics that are foreign to people like Gonzalez.


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## kruger (29 Apr 2004)

No disagreement there.


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## stukirkpatrick (29 Apr 2004)

sometimes, even though it would affect me as well, I think that the typical university education age is too young, as too many ‘enlightened‘ students make immature comments and statements like these. (student protests anyone?)

Also, according to the CNN article, the author is a MAN, not a woman - stupid gender-ambiguous names


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## condor888000 (29 Apr 2004)

All that matters is that men and women are dying, and people are mad. I‘m surprised that there aren‘t 4 times as many letters written by people who think that the world is a perfect place and that war is never an option. There are better ones, but you must be ready to fight for what you believe in. That‘s what Pat Tillman was doing. Unfortunatly he died but, as Padraig said, there were others. Where are the letters for them?


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## Korus (29 Apr 2004)

> sometimes, even though it would affect me as well, I think that the typical university education age is too young, as too many ‘enlightened‘ students make immature comments and statements like these. (student protests anyone?)


I frankly don‘t see most university students as ‘enlightened‘.. Everyone‘s always going to have an opinion, and in Uni, people just tend to be more arrogant know it alls.

But then again, I‘m just an Engineer.. (Uni, not military)

I‘m going to have to echo Jungle‘s comment. 

Tillman gets the attention, because he was a high profile person. That doesn‘t mean that the other soldiers aren‘t heros as well.


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## Padraig OCinnead (30 Apr 2004)

I‘m not sure I think that those young university students are really guilty of their misguided opinions on current world events. For those most part they are like us in a sense that they are young (generally..), motivated, intelligent individuals. Their professors are mostly the bitter forgotten disenchanted hippy liberals who complained against some war in the ‘60‘s. They‘re bound to imitate them in lack of normal pratical adults.

We on the other hand, are instructed by as fine a bunch of Canadians you‘ll hardly find. A practical hard working bunch of folks.

Just my conservative minded slant I s‘pose,


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## wongskc (30 Apr 2004)

Hey, I just happen to be one of those "misguided" Uni students!     And I do have a very Liberal-based mindset, but I‘ve seen just as many conservative dumdums in University as I have on the Liberal side.

Being a self proclamed Liberal, that‘s bound to not win me many friends here, but meh, this is just the internet.  Though for the record, I will admit that a lot of my fellow Liberals are pot-smoking weasel, brainless peace activists that can‘t grasp the fact that no nation has ever survived without an army.

I will agree with you Padraig OCinnead, that there are a lot of poli sci students that mindlessly follow their profs around and swallow up the slosh their profs feed them.  That‘s why I got out of the program, and talking to friends that stayed in the program, I can really see that fantasy world that many of them live in.


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## wongskc (30 Apr 2004)

Aw crap, I wasn‘t paying attention and didn‘t realize there was a whole other page to this thread.  Now my first post on this thread makes me look like a class A turd.

Rene and other Liberals like that piss me off to no end.  They miss the point completely.  They talk about being misguided but don‘t even look in the mirror.  Her ilk are the types of Liberals I try to distance myself from.

Mr. Tillman acted in a manner that he felt best served his fellows and not only joined the army, but excelled in it.  In my opinion, there can be no higher calling.


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Apr 2004)

Napalm,
I‘ve had just about enough of your crap. I‘m sick and tired of your negative horseshit. You‘re about 30 seconds away from being banned (again).

Tillman was the epitimy of a soldier. Pure patriotism and doing what he thought was right, regardless af monetary gain or self sacrifice. He did what he felt he needed to do without fanfare. He shunned the spotlight with his decison. He strove to offer his country the best he could. He was a Ranger. He went in knowing the possible outcome to his choice, and embraced it. He achieved the only thing a true soldier asks, the trust and respect of his peers. God speed and good hunting.

For a piece of shyte like you to say he died for oil, speaks volumes of your life experience. You‘ve been pushing for an argument ever since you got back here. This is not a joke Buckwheat. We let a lot of stuff slide here, but I think your just about at the end of your tether. 

Just a warning to anyone else. I can lock forums and will. I won‘t stand by and let the memory of this Brother in Arms, or any other combat casualty anywhere, be defiled. Here or on any other thread. Especially by pampered, misguided, liberalistic bullshit from half baked wannabe‘s or treehugging mamma‘s kids who‘s most dangerous life experience has been waking up face down in their own puke after a zit popping, peach shnapps party in their college dorm.


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## 1feral1 (30 Apr 2004)

Hey Recce, PUNT him, you got my vote! The ongoing shortcomings of this boy, or man-child, are simply not of the calibre one would want or expect a member ‘in good standing‘ to have. 

Since he has been ‘punted‘ before, this is ‘strike three‘ and although I am for freedom of speech and everything that stands for, he has been warned in the past, and I say ‘get rid of this troll‘.

I find this comment he made listed in the above posts to be one of the most sickening and outright disrespectful posts I have read on this site.

Cheers,

Wes


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## bossi (30 Apr 2004)

Napalm,
Your comment was despicable ("... Tillman was one of many soldiers fighting bravely to keep our SUV‘s going, I salute and thank him for being able to afford my Oldsmobile Bravada.")

As you hide behind the anonymity of the Internet, be thankful you‘ll never feel the wrath of Tillman‘s friends or family, you little pissant.


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## Freight_Train (30 Apr 2004)

From -  http://www.armyranger.com/mod.php?mod=userpage&page_id=121 

An American Warrior 
by LTC(Ret.)J.D. Lock 

Since the birth of this great nation, there have been only two wars in the past 192 years that were the result of enemy attacks launched directly against the United States. The first occurred on 7 December 1941 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. In response to that ‘Day of Infamy,‘ professional athletes voluntarily enlisted or were drafted by the thousands. Within the professional baseball ranks alone, 5,400 of 5,800 players served in uniform. The second attack occurred on 11 September 2001 with another surprise attack by international terrorists against the World Trade Center and The Pentagon. In response to that 21st Century ‘Day of Infamy,‘ only one professional athlete voluntarily enlisted to serve in uniform. Not only did Pat Tillman volunteer to serve his nation in uniform, he chose to serve it by enlisting in one of the world‘s most elite combat units, the 75th Ranger Regiment, thus virtually guaranteeing that he would close with and engage America‘s enemies in ground combat. 

Sir Winston Churchill once noted that "Courage is the first of the human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all of the others." In World War II, the ‘Greatest Generation‘ was the face of courage. In this Global War on Terror, the face of courage is the face of Pat Tillman, and the tens of thousands of others like him who have volunteered to serve and to fight America‘s enemies. From a greatest generation of professional athletes that served in their nation‘s defense, we have devolved to an uninspired generation of professional athletes that were represented by their only ‘greatest‘ member, Pat Tillman, a virtual ‘Lone Ranger.‘ Sadly, it took this man‘s death to realize that. 

Will Pat Tillman‘s death...his ‘last full measure of devotion‘ for the Stars and Stripes he so dearly loved...have a lasting impact? Only time will tell. But it should serve as a wakeup call and a point to ponder for all Americans of service age, especially for our hyped national ‘heroes,‘ the professional...and excessively pampered...athlete. For those game ‘warriors‘ who so easily talk of titanic struggle, battle and war on the fields of friendly strife, it is best to recall William Shakespeare‘s King Henry V, Act 4, Scene III: 

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne‘er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin‘s day. 
America‘s professional athletes, "...gentlemen in England now a-bed," hold your manhoods cheap for Pat Tillman shed his blood for you and fought your Saint Crispin‘s day. 

All deaths are tragic, but some seem more tragic than others. An American Warrior, Ranger Pat Tillman, Killed in Action on the Field of Battle, 22 April 2004. When one dies so tragically young, there is no finer epitaph...and my heart swells with pride knowing that this nation still produces such fine young men...even if they are fewer in number than generations before...who are willing to place themselves in harms way while the rest of us sleep safely in our beds each night. Pat Tillman, I am humbled by your character, selfless service and personal sacrifice. While others of your profession talk the walk, you not only walked it, you ran. I pray that, if only for a moment, your manly peers "shall think themselves accursed they were not [there]" when your blood ran red as you lay dying in a foreign land on their behalf.


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## muskrat89 (29 May 2004)

Not that it really changes anything, but they now suspect he died as a result of friendly fire...

Tillman


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## Goober (30 May 2004)

Yea I read the article, it said after a landmine went off there was some confusion and one of the Afgan fighters with the US troop was mistaken for an enemy and fired at, then more soldiers fired in the same direction killing Tillman and 2 Afgan soldiers, and wounding 2 others. So the article read anyway.


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