# Recruiting into CISI



## Redhotpengy

Hey guys! New to the forum,

I'm pretty much 16 years old (a couple months until my birthday) and I've been considering a few careers. I have one particular that I want to do, but I like to keep an open mind.

I've been pretty interested in the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. I know they're Canada's main centre of handling intelligence. And I know many of you are going to just say that I'm interesting in this job because I want to become a "spy". 

Let me just say that's not true. I'm interested in the job because of the lifestyle. I find foreign affairs, politics, and international cultures interesting. I also like the dealing of secret information, and dealing with bad people. It sounds exciting, and somewhat dangerous. 

Anyways, I guess my main questions are what could I start doing to prepare myself for a job there? In terms of high school courses? Do I need to take French? 

I'd also like to know the physical aspects of training they do. Do they teach you any physical training (Fighting, firing weapons, etc)? 

Sorry for my ignorance, I'd just really like input from someone who knows more. Thank you!  ;D


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## aesop081

Redhotpengy said:
			
		

> I know they're Canada's main centre of handling intelligence.



They are an agency responsible for certain kinds of intelligence. Other agencies have responsibility for other areas of intelligence that have zero involvement by CSIS.


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## GAP

Redhotpengy said:
			
		

> And I know many of you are going to just say that I'm interesting in this job because I want to become a "spy". yep
> 
> Let me just say that's not true. uh huh
> 
> I'm interested in the job because of the lifestyle. Oh, well then
> 
> I find foreign affairs, politics, and international cultures interesting.  uh huh
> 
> I also like the dealing of secret information, and dealing with bad people. It sounds exciting, and somewhat dangerous.
> 
> Anyways, I guess my main questions are what could I start doing to prepare myself for a job there? In terms of high school courses? Do I need to take French?
> 
> I'd also like to know the physical aspects of training they do. Do they teach you any physical training (Fighting, firing weapons, etc)? Oh, the JTF2ninjasniper stuff?


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## Redhotpengy

What sort of intelligence does CSIS deal with? Foreign intelligence or federal intelligence?


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## aesop081

Redhotpengy said:
			
		

> What sort of intelligence does CSIS deal with? Foreign intelligence or federal intelligence?



Go read their website.


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## Redhotpengy

GAP said:
			
		

>




 :facepalm:


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## aesop081

https://www.csis.gc.ca/index-eng.asp


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## GAP

There's a whole wack of information on the site that should suit your basic needs, but you might also might be interested in  Student Employment


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## Redhotpengy

Thanks for that!


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## Redeye

Redhotpengy said:
			
		

> Thanks for that!



CSIS aren't James Bond type spies. You will need a university degree, and ideally facility in French. If you don't speak it on being hired by the Service you will be sent immediately for French training, during your probationary period. If you can't learn it, you're gone.

You've got a long time to go before being able to employed as an IO, but you'll want to start studying what they do. Your first 1-on-1 interview will grill you on what the Service does, in great detail.


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## Redhotpengy

Thanks for the information, and I'm aware of that. As long as they can send me to be trained in French, because I'm not taking it in High School so far. At this point, I'm just considering it. I don't think I'll do it, but it will be my 2nd choice down from the main thing I want to do.


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## Jarnhamar

CSIS moved away from the blanket University-only to accepting different college degrees.

For example some security positions require "any security related" college degree while others "any college degree".
So one can rock out a general arts and science and be a potential candidate.

Different jobs at CSIS open and close all the time.  Depending on what field you are interested in you should look at taking college or university courses in the same field and when you graduate and get your diploma apply to CSIS depending on what's open.

While you are at school you should join the reserves to give you a sense of discipline and self control.  There are also courses in the reserves that could help you out later down the road. Communication courses. Driving courses. First aid courses. Leadership courses. You will also become familiar with a bunch of cool guns and the training how to use them.


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## Occam

Universities grant degrees.
Colleges grant diplomas.

That said, when did they change that?  I've been summarily dismissing any job postings for CSIS without even looking at them because they've wanted degrees in the past.


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## Fishbone Jones

Redhotpengy,

As long as you know this is a military web site and not a CSIS one, we'll let your thread run. Your in the wrong place.

Most, if not all, the answers you'll get here are the same as that you'll get from their site or anywhere else on the internet.

There are likely very few members, if any, that have had enough personal experience with CSIS to answer with any authority. There might be some. What they can answer may be something else again.

Don't be disappoint and dismissive because you're not getting the answers you want. CSIS is not our forte.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Jarnhamar

I was speaking to someone in their HR this fall.  They relaxed the criteria not too long ago. Take a look at the website, few of the jobs only require college. Some of them are "any college diploma".

Protective Security Officer
Undergraduate degree or a two (2) year college diploma in a security field.

Survailiant (not sure how it's spelt) required any college diploma as far as I remember.


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## Occam

Interesting, thanks for the info.  Will have to start giving them a look.


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## MedCorps

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> Protective Security Officer
> Undergraduate degree or a two (2) year college diploma in a security field.
> 
> Survailiant (not sure how it's spelt) required any college diploma as far as I remember.



It is also worth pointing out the the Protective Security Officer makes $44,000 to $54,000 a year (a Pte - IPC 3 makes more then this to start and a Cpl - IPC 4 makes more then this entire range) and a Surveillant is making $56,000 to $68,000 a year (a Cpl - IPC 4 makes more then this to start for reference).  

Not sure if their benefits package is better or worse then the CF however. 

Something to think about. 

MC


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## Redhotpengy

Do they train you to be security?


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## aesop081

Redhotpengy said:
			
		

> Do they train you to be security?



Everything you need to know is on the CSIS website..............


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## Richard.Donafeld

Colleges do grant degrees now in certain fields take a look at conestoga for example.
http://www.conestogac.on.ca/degrees/index.jsp


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## dapaterson

To be an Intelligence Officer in CSIS requries a University degree.  Full stop.

Other positions may or may not, depending on the nature of the position.  Much like the CF, CSIS has a fairly large array of position types, requiring different skillsets - for example, CSIS employs a large number of folks with library science backgrounds; they have finance personnel, administrative services personnel... all the support staff needed to achieve their mission.


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## Occam

WEng said:
			
		

> Colleges do grant degrees now in certain fields take a look at conestoga for example.
> http://www.conestogac.on.ca/degrees/index.jsp



Okay, I'll expand on that.

Under the traditional roles, universities grant degrees, and colleges grant diplomas.  Obviously there are some colleges who have gone through the rigors of becoming accredited to teach degree programs.  However, diplomas are usually granted for two and three year programs at community colleges, while degrees are granted by four (plus) year programs at universities.

Yes, I'm aware there are three year degree programs.  Everyone's gotta be special.


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## Edward Campbell

Redhotpengy said:
			
		

> Hey guys! New to the forum,
> 
> I'm pretty much 16 years old (a couple months until my birthday) and I've been considering a few careers. I have one particular that I want to do, but I like to keep an open mind.
> 
> I've been pretty interested in the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. I know they're Canada's main centre of handling intelligence. And I know many of you are going to just say that I'm interesting in this job because I want to become a "spy".
> 
> Let me just say that's not true. I'm interested in the job because of the lifestyle. I find foreign affairs, politics, and international cultures interesting. I also like the dealing of secret information, and dealing with bad people. It sounds exciting, and somewhat dangerous.
> 
> Anyways, I guess my main questions are what could I start doing to prepare myself for a job there? In terms of high school courses? Do I need to take French?
> 
> I'd also like to know the physical aspects of training they do. Do they teach you any physical training (Fighting, firing weapons, etc)?
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance, I'd just really like input from someone who knows more. Thank you!  ;D




Before we get too far sidetracked ... you might want to note that the _intelligence_ business is neither dangerous nor glamorous, it involves, for 99.99% of its practitioners, careers of unending drudgery, sifting and sorting _information_ until some meaningful patterns _might_ materialize.

Please take careful note of CSIS' name: the Canadian *Security* Intelligence Service - I put a lot of emphasis on security because many countries divide the _intelligence_ function into two broad categories:

1. Protecting out secrets, here at home, from foreign spys; and

2. Gathering information, overseas, which can be turned into useful intelligence.

Speaking very broadly CSIS does the former and other agencies do the latter. CSIS can and does operate overseas but, mainly, in pursuit of its "Priority Areas" of responsibility.

As you might expect, in this _cyber_ age, much of the _volume_ of "spying," by which we mean _information_ gathering is done electronically because so much _information_ is moved about by electronic means. Canada has an agency, separate and distinct from CSIS, that does that work.

If you are interested in that sort of work - in the _intelligence_ part of CSIS and/or CSE - then, as dapaterson says, you will need a university degree, likely more than one, and some facility, better yet, fluency, in one or more foreign languages. There are CF members and other folks who roam around foreign countries gathering or trying to gather information - we call the CF people _attachés_ and they are, mostly, colonels with one or more university degrees and some skill in a foreign language or two; the others are called diplomats - once again university educated and having some language skills. The information those folks gather is assembled and analyzed and rearranged and reviewed and turned into real _intelligence_ by the analysts - the real _intelligence_ professionals: grey little people, working in grey little cubicles in grey little office buildings in Canada's grey little capital.

French matters because these agencies are part of the Government of Canada - even if you have a PhD in physics and are fluent in Arabic, Hindi and Mandarin you had better be bilingual.

By the way ... Ian Fleming's _James Bond_ character was modelled, in part, on Commander Lionel "Buster" Crabb, RN. But Crabb and his ilk were always rare, everywhere, and are even more so, today. And remember, Redhotpengy, all those in the _intelligence_ world are Taoists at heart and they believe Lao Tzu's diuctum that _"Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.”_


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## George Wallace

dapaterson said:
			
		

> To be an Intelligence Officer in CSIS requries a University degree if you are female you have to be an 11 on the scale of 1 to 10.  Full stop.




There.   Fixed that for you.


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## dapaterson

George Wallace said:
			
		

> There.   Fixed that for you.



The female IOs I have met (with one exception) do not meet that criteria.  Even after copious numbers of shooters.


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## Scott

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The female IOs I have met (with one exception) do not meet that criteria.  Even after copious numbers of shooters.



Oh I know one that's about a 16 at minimum. No shooters required. And she's the "ugly" sister.


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## sean m

It seems according to the Globe and Mail that the officers in CSIS responsible for foreign intelligence collection are known as, foreign collection officers,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/review-uncovers-csis-policy-violations/article1857901/

Here is the CSIS organization chart, at the bottom left is the Assistant Director for Foreign Intelligence Collection, Michel Coulombe


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## Jarnhamar

Are you sure your link isn't about a story on policy violations?

Am i supposed to rub lemon juice on my screen or something?


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## sean m

Well if you are talking about CSIS foreign collection officers, the reference is in the 5th or 6th paragraph


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## Retired AF Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Before we get too far sidetracked ... you might want to note that the _intelligence_ business is neither dangerous nor glamorous, it involves, for 99.99% of its practitioners, careers of unending drudgery, sifting and sorting _information_ until some meaningful patterns _might_ materialize.



It should be pointed out that CSIS agents do carry firearms (1) and, in fact, do not even have the powers of arrest.  To arrest someone, they call in the RCMP. 

(1) An exception was for CSIS agents operating in Afghanistan.


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## Retired AF Guy

sean m said:
			
		

> It seems according to the Globe and Mail that the officers in CSIS responsible for foreign intelligence collection are known as, foreign collection officers,
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/review-uncovers-csis-policy-violations/article1857901/
> 
> Here is the CSIS organization chart, at the bottom left is the Assistant Director for Foreign Intelligence Collection, Michel Coulombe



From the 2009 - 2010 CSIS Public Report:



> Over the past several years, the Service has strived to improve and increase its presence and collection efforts outside of Canada’s borders. In 2009-2010, the Service increased its capacity to collect quality intelligence abroad through CSIS stations and its relationships in priority areas around the globe. There have also been improved coordination and understanding of the Service’s collection mandate abroad among stakeholders within Canada. The Service’s ability to utilize its relationships with foreign services and leverage their knowledge and capabilities has produced enhanced collection in response to the government's security intelligence priorities.
> 
> In 2009-2010, the Service also continued to provide increased and timely reporting from the Afghanistan and Pakistan region in support of Canada’s mission in Afghanistan. It also supported allied efforts to combat extremism emanating from this volatile region of the world and contributed to save Canadian, allied and Afghan lives.


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## Lumber

Has anyone on here made the jump to CSIS, or know anyone personally who has?

Even better: any non-intelligence non-technical officers? (i.e. pilot, NWO, infantry, log, armoured, etc).

I've been on their website and looked at all their available jobs, and was wondering which jobs seem most suitable for those without a technical or intelligence background, but upwards of 15 years of trg and experience in operations, planning, and leadership.

I'm not actively looking to change careers, but CSIS has always interested me, and Im curious to know more about where I would go IF I went this way, someday.

Also, if anyone has any idea just where and how often CSIS employees move around, that would be valuable insight as well.

Cheers!


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## dapaterson

Mobility depends on classification.  As with any organization, they hire an array of people with an array of skills.

I may know a handful or more of people working there.


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