# Cambrian Patrol 2005



## Jamtorky (30 May 2005)

Just curious if anyone has any personal experience with this exersise... planning ..work up... costs.... equipment needed..... process for application as a CDN Res Unit.. 

I am planning on proposing that my Reserve Regt put together a team for this year... 

I am looking for some information on training and preparing for this gruelling test!!!

Also if anyone knows the proper channels for Canadian units to go through to get permmision or support or if there is an OPI for LFWA. 

As for getting there... is this personnally funded or is there funds allocated to get us over there 


thanks


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## medicineman (30 May 2005)

I can't say much for funding, but 2 RCR has put in very successful teams (Silver medal) over the last few years - perhaps get in touch with their ops guys, they at least might be able to help you out with planning.

MM


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## Blunt Object (30 May 2005)

I'm not sure about costs and preparations but I sure that the reserves regiment ASH of C (P.L.) in (Hamilton, Ontario) is the only Canadian Reserves regiment to ever win a gold that exercises. I'm not 100% about that so you may want to check it out. I do how ever spend a lot of times at the J.F.A. where the ASH of C train and I often hear of them speaking of the patrol so I'm sure someone there can give you more than enough information.


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## KevinB (30 May 2005)

As far as LFWA goes LdSH(RC) [yeah an armoured unit  : ] is putting in a team this year.

 No Patricia teams (again...)


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## Spr.Earl (30 May 2005)

Heres a link to the N.Sask. Reg. with photo's of when ther were at the Cambrian Yomp in 2001.
Contact them for info.

Also the DND link for the Yomp.

http://www.nsaskr.ca/gallery/Cambrian

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?FlashEnabled=1&id=81


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## Gunner (30 May 2005)

Jamtorky,

Welcome, always good to see more BCDs here.

Have your RSSO contact his buddy at SALH, 41 CBG.  41 CBG has entered teams over the years and may be able to assist in a training package.  As already pointed out, the infantry are shying away from close recce (sorry Kevin!   ), and the LDSH(RC) will be able to help.

Cheers


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## Spr.Earl (30 May 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Jamtorky,
> 
> Welcome, always good to see more BCDs here.
> 
> ...



Gunner,yes some parts are close infantry recce support but the most part is map and compas and good old Mil. Skill's time trial style.But looking at the task's I think any one who entered would come out with more knowledge than they went in with even if they failed.

We need something like this in Canada.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (30 May 2005)

Jamtorky:  PM inbound.

TR


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## Parasoldier (30 May 2005)

3 RCR won gold in 2004.   They would be a good resource for you.



> I'm not sure about costs and preparations but I sure that the reserves regiment ASH of C (P.L.) in (Hamilton, Ontario) is the only Canadian Reserves regiment to ever win a gold that exercises.



Actually, no reserve units have earned the gold standard.  Only Reg Force infantry units have achieved this standard.


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## Gunner (30 May 2005)

Spr.Earl said:
			
		

> Gunner,yes some parts are close infantry recce support but the most part is map and compas and good old Mil. Skill's time trial style.But looking at the task's I think any one who entered would come out with more knowledge than they went in with even if they failed.



Spr Earl, rodger that!  Just giving Kevin some well deserved needling as he hasn't bought me the beer he promised after the last pay raise!


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## JBP (30 May 2005)

Blunt Object said:
			
		

> I'm not sure about costs and preparations but I sure that the reserves regiment ASH of C (P.L.) in (Hamilton, Ontario) is the only Canadian Reserves regiment to ever win a gold that exercises. I'm not 100% about that so you may want to check it out. I do how ever spend a lot of times at the J.F.A. where the ASH of C train and I often hear of them speaking of the patrol so I'm sure someone there can give you more than enough information.




No, they won a Bronze, only reserve unit to ever WIN at any time... I know, because I've seen the metal and was told about it by Lt.Frasier of the ASH of C of Hamilton.


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## R711 (30 May 2005)

Hey This my first time post but I must correct you. the first medal to be won by a CDN team was in 1997, and by a reserve army Unit (SALH they got a bronze). How do I know this I was on the team. But other than that it was the easiest thing I have ever done in my life and you should give it a try it was that easy LOL ;D. But to put it in perspective the Pyramid was way easier, Right Kevin LOL
R711 OUT


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## Spr.Earl (30 May 2005)

R711 said:
			
		

> Hey This my first time post but I must correct you. the first medal to be won by a CDN team was in 1997, and by a reserve army Unit (SALH they got a bronze). How do I know this I was on the team. But other than that it was the easiest thing I have ever done in my life and you should give it a try it was that easy LOL ;D. But to put it in perspective the Pyramid was way easier, Right Kevin LOL
> R711 OUT


Done in Sennybridge?


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## Spr.Earl (30 May 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Spr Earl, rodger that!   Just giving Kevin some well deserved needling as he hasn't bought me the beer he promised after the last pay raise!


Ah thats a no,no!  
Kev you promise some ale?

But over all after reading the task's I think it's worth it and we must try and set up something along the same lines here in Canada.
Once we have done it then make it a International Competion same a the Cam.Yomp.

One year in Wain.,next year in Sufield,the next in Gag Town, etc.


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## Parasoldier (31 May 2005)

> Hey This my first time post but I must correct you. the first medal to be won by a CDN team was in 1997, and by a reserve army Unit (SALH they got a bronze). How do I know this I was on the team. But other than that it was the easiest thing I have ever done in my life and you should give it a try it was that easy LOL . But to put it in perspective the Pyramid was way easier, Right Kevin LOL
> R711 OUT



I am sure that this is not correct.  2 RCR won a gold in 1996.



> No, they won a Bronze, only reserve unit to ever WIN at any time... I know, because I've seen the metal and was told about it by Lt.Frasier of the ASH of C of Hamilton.



Some homework needs to be done.... a reserve tm achieved silver last year.


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## shaboing (31 May 2005)

Hasty P's got silver last year and were really close to gold, only a few points back. were looking to do better this year and bring back the gold


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## R711 (31 May 2005)

The Info that i was going of off was from the General in charge of the Wales Brigade when he presented us the medals he stated we were the only Cdn team to achieve the medal so far. But hey even generals make mistakes. Well at least CDN ones LOL
R711 OUT


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## Haggis (31 May 2005)

ShaBoing said:
			
		

> Hasty P's got silver last year and were really close to gold, only a few points back.



Actually it was a composite 33 CBG team that earned a silver last year.
See: http://www.dnd.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/html_files/html_view_e.asp?page=vol7-42_army#4e


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## pbi (1 Jun 2005)

Just a note in response to Sapper Earl's suggestion of a "Canadian Cambrian"; there is a plan afoot for an Army-wide patrolling competition which will likely be stood up in the next year or so. Hopefully this will do much to revive emphasis on infantry combat skills that seem to have been suffering over the last few years.


Cheers


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## shaboing (1 Jun 2005)

yes, but i was stating that Hasty P's got silver which is true cause Hasty P's were on the team


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## MoRat (11 Jun 2005)

R711 said:
			
		

> The Info that i was going of off was from the General in charge of the Wales Brigade when he presented us the medals he stated we were the only Cdn team to achieve the medal so far.
> R711 OUT



Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a couple of LER's on that silver medal team? I was on the Loyal Eddie team in 2000, and we got a lot of advice from our members of that silver medal team. It was superb training and I recommend it to anyone.


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## Krazy-P (11 Jun 2005)

I just joined the LER's and was just wondering if they put a team in every year


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## R711 (15 Jun 2005)

Actually it was a bronze medal and there was an Arty guy on the team and a 4 LERS on the team. In fact I am looking at the  certificate on my wall right now. So the game, begins which unit am I from MoRat. Think about it look at my MOC and you'll Know who I am
R711 OUT


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## downinOZ (16 Jun 2005)

I trained with and attended the exercise with N Sask R a few years back.  As an engineer from BC attached to the unit, I could think, EVERY training night, of the excellent resources BC units would have/could have in their grasp - candidates from all units, and support from (likely) all units in training scenarios, rain, hills, cold water, rain, hills - no baby's heads, but lots of rain and hills.  And I agree fully with other posts - candidates are guaranteed to come out with better personal skills and motivation.  We had a british fellow train us, but I think there is enough experience out and about that you wouldn't need to task out.  There was an Argyll team competing at the same time as us, and one thing both units did was liase with a british unit (Argylls, and Light Infantry).  Made a huge difference to the team to be able to get that in-house support.  

England can fit into ---Vancouver Island?  What a fantastic opportunity to get something like this up and running in Canada.  
Good luck.
Chimo


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## MoRat (19 Jun 2005)

R711 said:
			
		

> Actually it was a bronze medal and there was an Arty guy on the team and a 4 LERS on the team. In fact I am looking at the   certificate on my wall right now. So the game, begins which unit am I from MoRat. Think about it look at my MOC and you'll Know who I am
> R711 OUT



Since you have the certificate, and I've only got the war stories, I'll take your word as authoritative. I'm good friends with the 2ic from that team, and he has some pretty crazy stories about it. As he puts it, when the end came, you guys were way beyond bagged. He said he has never been so tired, hungry, or thirsty in his life.

In regards to other questions on this thread:

- No, the LER's do not enter Cambrian every year. We entered teams in 2000 and 2001 but haven't been back since. Sadly, neither medalled. Nonetheless the experience was invaluable. (For those who would scoff at that statement, sometimes you learn just as much from your mistakes, as from your successes.) Our teams were largely the product of a single senior officer, who had a strange ability to arrange high-speed stuff like that. Since he's been gone, we've been rather pedestrian in our training.

- I read an article in the Western Sentinel about a patrolling competition based on Cambrian run by the N SASK R, but it could have been another unit. Various reserve units, as well as 2 PPCLI entered teams. For units that want to participate in such an exercise, perhaps this might be a good start.

- I don't care what colour your medal is. It could be filled with chocolate for all I care. If you've got one, I tip my hat to you.

For those who have participated, perhaps they can clear up two questions I have always had about the competition.
1. Is it in the rules that an officer MUST command the patrol?

2. If a member of the team is injured, may the team evac him and carry on without him, or are they eliminated?


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## Satelliteslayer (19 Jun 2005)

The BCR put a team in the 2000 patrol, we did not medal either and I must agree with you that the experience was worth every second. As for you questions:

There must be an Officer as team leader, this is more for leason purposes with the British Army than anything else. Our team was commanded by a Sgt.

As for injuries IIRC you can lose a mbr and carry on w/ the msn, if too many go down the umpire cadre may call the team out and thats it... your done.

In mt personal opinion the real value in the CP program is that it gives individuals and units a reason to do very high speed - low drag training that may seem pointless without the CP as an end goal.

It has the added bonus of being able to separate the men from the boys with some interesting results, all is not always as it seems.


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## combat_medic (21 Jun 2005)

Parasoldier said:
			
		

> I am sure that this is not correct.  2 RCR won a gold in 1996.



1997, actually: http://www.army.dnd.ca/RCR_RHQ/English/regimental_archive/index_dec97.shtm

1st time a Canadian team took gold. I know one of the patrol members, and he got a LFC Commendation for it. 

But no matter what reserve unit did what when, or didn't do, it's a rough go, and even finishing the course is worthy of some pretty hefty praise (was told it makes the Mountain Man look like a walk in the park). Good on ya for even trying it.


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## downinOZ (24 Jun 2005)

For those who have participated, perhaps they can clear up two questions I have always had about the competition.
1. Is it in the rules that an officer MUST command the patrol?

As stated, an officer is required as team leader for at least liason purposes.  During our patrol, we met teams that had officers commanding them, officer cadet patrols, and the usual NCM patrols.  

2. If a member of the team is injured, may the team evac him and carry on without him, or are they eliminated?
We lost two members during the patrol.  One marched to the top of a hill to be rewarded with a helicopter ride, and the other rolled his ankle about 2 hours from the end of the patrol.  The team DID finish, and DID finish with enough points to medal, but did NOT meet the requirement of finishing with 7 men. We passed quite a few teams that lost one member and said "F*#k it" and evacced.  It's awfully easy to roll an ankle/blow a knee in Sennybridge, and 110 pounds is a lot of weight to carry for 3 days.


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## Haggis (24 Jun 2005)

ShaBoing said:
			
		

> yes, but i was stating that Hasty P's got silver which is true cause Hasty P's were on the team



Notwithstanding your interpretation of the facts, the medal was not won only by a Hasty P.  It was won collectively by all members of the 33 CBG team.  To say anything else belittles the accomplishments of *the team*.


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## Greyman (27 Jun 2005)

Hey R711.
I was on the team in '97  and I don't remember any medics.  What was your position on the team?  Navigator perhaps?

And as far as I know, we were the first reserve team to participate on the Cambrian Patrol.

JS


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## R711 (27 Jun 2005)

Maybe I was the Medic Navigator LOL who the hell are you? I was an LER now I am Going Nursing Officer ohhhhhh the horror
R711OUT


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## howard.ml (4 Jul 2005)

Jamtorky said:
			
		

> Just curious if anyone has any personal experience with this exercise... planning ..work up... costs.... equipment needed..... process for application as a CDN Res Unit..
> 
> I am planning on proposing that my Reserve Regt put together a team for this year...
> 
> ...


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## Vigilant (6 Jul 2005)

Is there a team from 32 CBG? Would be interested in more information if there was.


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## pasky (21 Dec 2005)

I was part of the 2005 Cambrian Patrol that the A&SH of C (PL) put together.  I believe we had 60K to train from September to the beginning of the competition.  Our trainning consisted of stairs two times a week for 2 hours with full kit and rucksacks weighing 100 lb., between those days independently running, swimming and gym.  The flights and accomodations were paid by the CF.  I would recommend investing in a pair of Danners (boots) approx. $400 and a Bergen rucksack $300.  Once there you will have time to train with the hosting British troops, and learn their unencrypted radios, BATCO, weapons and all the good stuff.  If you need more details e-mail me.


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## Gayson (22 Dec 2005)

Vigilant said:
			
		

> Is there a team from 32 CBG? Would be interested in more information if there was.



Yes there is, and the team has been broken down to around 12 candidates.  I know 2 guys who have made the this number, one of whom has dropped out.

At a date closer to the event the team is supposed to be cut down to I think 6 guys.

When my unit was briefed on the tryouts, it was also mentioned that 32 bde competitors will be issued the new ruck for the event and that some SA80's are trying to be aquired for trg.

That was a few months ago though.


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## UberCree (25 Dec 2005)

I was the patrol commander for the LER team in 2001.  Many many lessons learned before during and after the 'patrol'.  Our biggest mistake was in approaching the event as a patrol competition and not as a time trial skills event, our training reflected this mistake as well.  We started out exceptionally well but could not keep our timings... we wasted way too much time being tactical while all of the local teams stuck to roads and crossed bridges that were their objectives, etc. to save time (I also made one huge navigation error).  

We had an outstanding team, hardest part of the event was picking who would compete.  Picked up a lot of valuable information and skills, especially in detailed OPORDERS.  
I would recommend to anyone who has the chance to do what they can to participate.  
Keep in mind however that it is a competition, not a patrol.


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## swanita (26 Dec 2005)

J. Gayson said:
			
		

> Yes there is, and the team has been broken down to around 12 candidates.  I know 2 guys who have made the this number, one of whom has dropped out.



Well, they only started off with MAYBE 20 people who actually showed up the first training weekend. And more have dropped out rather than people being chosen at this stage. I hope whoever makes the final team, I think to be chosen by June, that they do well!

Swanita


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## Patrolman (28 Dec 2005)

I was on the RCR team in 2003 a Silver award.It was one of the best things I have in my career.

  2RCR  probably has  more experience with the patrol than any other unit in Canada Regs as well as res.I can at least say they have had the most success. They have competed five times from1996-2003 and have recieved 1 Gold,2Silver,and 2Bronze awards.

 I would recommend to anyone plannining to do the patrol to hump,hump,and hump some more.Don't waste your time running!We rucked every morning for about 10-15k then attended classes all day on SOP's,AFV,fire missions,map and compass,NBC,etc.We also completed two mini exercises prior to heading to the U.K. which assessed our stengths and weaknesses. 

  It was a great experience.The only thing that would have made it better would to have recieved gold. A British team from our serial recieved gold.Mr. Pratt (forgot his rank)the patrol organizer told us only one team per serial can recieve gold max. It was his opinion that it should have been ours. Politics at work.I recommend this ex to everyone.


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## howard.ml (5 Jan 2006)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Notwithstanding your interpretation of the facts, the medal was not won only by a Hasty P.  It was won collectively by all members of the 33 CBG team.  To say anything else belittles the accomplishments of *the team*.



Just to make it clear

There were 10 members on the 33 CBG team and a coach 

The Ptl commander was a Hasty Pee as well as the coach 
3 Ptl members were Hasty Pee's with one being a driver/spare
The 2 IC and 1 Ptl member were from 3 FES
1 Ptl member was a Cameron
1 was a GGFG and was a driver/spare
2 Ptl members were SD&G 

The Team received a silver medal in 2004


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## highlander871 (6 Jan 2006)

I bet Pasky can give you guys lots of info in regards to the history of the Argylls winning....though I haven't heard that we've ever won gold. I heard we were the only reserve unit sending a team.....
From an admin side, the boys got paid, claims, flights paid for, R&Q while over there (Somehow this didn't quite work as planned though). They raised money to buy their kit through support of the members of the unit and they worked their asses off. As far as an officer leading, we had an officer go over, but I'm not sure he was the leader anymore than on paper, one of the Sgts was very instrumental in running the patrol. The CO and RSM even went over for a few days to meet the boys at the end. It was hard work for the team as well as the BOR staff who worked on it constantly for the last few weeks leading up to Wales.
If you're interested in sending a team, make sure you have some switched on clerks!


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## EX--Royal (8 Feb 2006)

Seems like there is lots of confusion on who won what in what year. I guess some people are a little confused with their colours it seems. There has been 2 GOLD Medals won in the mountains of Wales, both from battalions of The Royal Canadian Regiment. First one being in 1997 by 2RCR and the second in 2004 by 3RCR. Good Luck for any Teams attempting the challenge, you'll learns lots from this exercise. As we all know the Brits do not consider the Patol as a competition, but as an exercise....a tough one!   

Silver Medal '03


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## big bad john (9 Feb 2006)

I thought that this link might be of interest:   http://www.army.mod.uk/160bde/cambrian_patrol/


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## Ariovistus (9 Feb 2006)

Hey there.

I was on 3RCR's team in 2005 for the patrol.  We placed silver.  Like others have mentioned who have done this event, it is most certainly an excellent opportunity to refine  basic soldiering skills and then put it to the test.  The experience there was invaluable to me.  I cannot specifically recall our budget, since I had nothing to do with it - yet I recall that it was around $100,000.  We went to Newfoundland to do extensive marching in Gros Morne, which was quite expensive as I recall.

And as someone else mentioned, the brits don't even think of it as a competition, over there its called the Cambrian Ex.  And from most of the brits I met while going through the various stands, most seemed to think it was a shitty-go.  I guess thats just the difference between someone who enjoys a challanging job and someone whos there for a pay check.

Really I think we deserved a Gold  :crybaby:, but theres always next year.    

As a side note, the brits have horrible BFA's!  and Wales has horrible weather


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## bigdog031 (26 Feb 2006)

no an officer does not have to led the patrol, when i did it in 2004 we had a masterjack and a sargent ledding the patrol,and to all the guys that argue about who was on what team and who got what medal,grow up if you have been on the team good for you and if you were not don't try and sound like you know what it is like or do the childish thing like saying" will my friend told me or i heard " it is the best gut check a soilder could do to see if he has what it take to be a real soilder and you can go on if a memmber gets hurt and finish but you will not get a medal :skull:  :threat:


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