# After BMQ - PAT [Merged]



## Warner

I'm goin to be going to St Jean for BMQ soon and I was wondering once you're done how much time do you have off?


----------



## jwsteele

Until your next course you will be put on PAT platoon at St.Jean or the base or training center you will be at next.  You don't get time off because you complete courses.  You have 20 days of leave each year which you can use when you want as long as it doesn't interfere with CF needs.


----------



## Warner

Cool...thanks man..was just wondering


----------



## jonsey

I recall reading that you only get that 20 days after your first year, but I'm not sure if I'm confusing it with something else I was reading, and I can't find the article. It makes some sense to me, because it takes at least a year to complete initial training, right?


It could be just that I've been looking at civilian jobs for so long and they all have the 1 year before vacation time is available.


----------



## NJL

I think once BMQ is completed, the situation is different for everybody... I've heard of people getting a couple weeks off, others have gone straight to their training base (i.e. Borden) to wait for their trade course to start... another friend of mine while waiting in Borden after BMQ got sent to Cold Lake to do some CF security work (which I think would be pretty cool seeing how I'm from NS and have never been to Alberta), he was there for a month. So it seems everyone's situation is different. I start BMQ July 31.


----------



## punkd

All depends, I got lucky and my BMQ ended on the friday of a long weekend. So I got the weekend off as 'travel time'. Don't count on much time off. How ever I doubt you will be staying on PAT @ st-jean. trades like comm rsrch, sig ops, v-techs, med-techs, mps, firefighters all get sent to CFB Borden where you will spend some well wasted time on PRETC waiting for your pre-reqs like SQ, drivers training waiting to go on your 3's. Infantry will most likely be sent to wainright or petawawa.. I dont know much about the navy trades


----------



## bran

With regards to regular force training, after you complete BMQ do you go straight onto SQ or do you get some time off in between? If so how much time off are you given/and are you able to take your time off anywhere? Also I want to do a CT after college, I've heard that you can now request a date for it to take effect, Is it too early to put my papers in if I want the CT to be done for May?

Thanks everyone,

PS I did a search and couldn't find anything relating to my queston.


----------



## Michael OLeary

After BMQ you get sent to where you will take the SQ.  There may be a pause while you wait for the SQ to start.  There is no guarantee you will be given leave, or an opportunity to go anywhere while you wait for your SQ.  It is not free "time off."

You will have to ask at the CFRC on the best time to start your process before a CT.  It may be best to start your process now, but make it clear at every stage that you will not be able to accept an offer before May.


----------



## JAWS228

After you finish BMQ there are several paths: 

A) If you're combat arms. you'll get transferred to the PAT platoon of whatever Battle School your trade uses (ie. Combat Engineers get sent to the Engineer school PAT platoon at Gagetown, RCR-bound infanteers to the Land Force Central  Area Training Centre (LFCATC) PAT platoon at Meaford, etc etc.).  The time you wait on said PAT platoons also depends on how often the SQ and DP1 courses are being run, it can vary, ie: buddy of mine in meaford started his infantry SQ/DP1 within days of arriving at meaford, another is a combat engineer who had to wait several weeks before starting his SQ in Gagetown.  

B)  If you're an army support trade, you get transferred to whats called Post Recruit Education and Training Centre (PRETC) in Borden ON.  There you wait until you are put on the next available SQ course, or possibly other pre-requisite courses (such as drivers) if you so require them.

I was put on PRETC for a week, than I did my Driver Wheeled course, than the day I finished the driver course I was sent off to Meaford for SQ.  Some people had even shorter wait times, and were sent off to SQ within days of arriving at PRETC.  Others were....not so lucky and had to wait a few more weeks.

And sometimes there isn't enough time to put you on an SQ course and you just get sent straight to your 3s.  Rare but it happens.

So really it all depends on how many courses are being run at the respective training centres, it's difficult to say exactly, but based on what I've seen at PRETC, you're looking at a 2-4 week wait on average.


----------



## bran

JAWS228 said:
			
		

> A) If you're combat arms. you'll get transferred to the PAT platoon of whatever Battle School your trade uses (ie. Combat Engineers get sent to the Engineer school PAT platoon at Gagetown, RCR-bound infanteers to the Land Force Central  Area Training Centre (LFCATC) PAT platoon at Meaford, etc etc.).  The time you wait on said PAT platoons also depends on how often the SQ and DP1 courses are being run, it can vary, ie: buddy of mine in meaford started his infantry SQ/DP1 within days of arriving at meaford, another is a combat engineer who had to wait several weeks before starting his SQ in Gagetown.



PPCLI infanteers would go to Wainwright?


----------



## MikeL

ONT said:
			
		

> PPCLI infanteers would go to Wainwright?



Yes those recruits who wish to join the Patricias will goto Wainwright; but you also could do your BIQ at LFWATC Det Shilo.


----------



## bran

Alright thanks. So to start the CT process I would firstly go to the CFRC and not my unit?


----------



## tencezero

Hey,


Searched but didnt find an answer

I heading to BMQ November 1st,  My girlfreind really wants to be there for graduation,  she lives in BC with me currently. My question to the forum is:

Is there a break after BMQ for a few days , or anything really , to visit with family and such before starting SQ.   Just want to know if I fly her out will I get some time to visit her before heading off to SQ,  IF I earn the right to be there.


----------



## chrome1967

Your grad will be on a Thursday, and you will be taken to the airport bright and early the next morning to be flown off to PAT Platoon until you go on your SQ. 
 I flew my girlfriend in for my grad and saw her for a total of 5 hours. 
Good luck on your BMQ


----------



## tencezero

damn.. Well 5 hours is better then no hours...  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Michael OLeary

While it may be nice to have your girlfriend at the graduation, you may want to consider spending the same money to fly her to your next training base for a weekend after you arrive and settle in there (if you will be waiting a few weeks before your trades courses start). Better a full weekend than a few hours.


----------



## Cat

I'm with Mr O'Leary on this one. It's going to be a long 14 weeks, and unless your staff at some point mentions that you're not getting shipped out right after your grad then it's most likely to your benefit as well as hers that you wait to have her come down so you can actually spend some time with her. There will be alot of things going on on your grad day (weapons return/finishing packing/seeing family/social time in the mess) and as much as you would both probably like for her to be there, she wouldn't be getting alot of one on one time with you, so I'd just wait til the next weekend and have her visit then when you can spend some real time with her.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Once you are settled in PAT, after your BMQ, take annual leave and go home... It is not worth it for a weekend. LTA ( leave travel assistance ) will reimburse you for your flight home once every fiscal year (april 1st-march 31st)

And grad... not worth it again, you will need the extra time and there will be lots of  ceremonies in your career...


----------



## Luke O

So, not trying to hijack a thread here, but if I finish BMQ at the start of March, can I take a week leave after that before going to PAT so that I can come home?


----------



## Michael OLeary

Luke O said:
			
		

> So, not trying to hijack a thread here, but if I finish BMQ at the start of March, can I take a week leave after that before going to PAT so that I can come home?



Unlikely. The moment your BMQ ends, they ship you to your new location. Once you are there you can ask about leave possibilities. Keep in mind they are also tracking how much leave each group of students have, so that they have enough leave days available for when they have scheduled you to be on leave.

In short, no-one here can give you a direct answer right now.


----------



## Luke O

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Unlikely. The moment your BMQ ends, they ship you to your new location. Once you are there you can ask about leave possibilities. Keep in mind they are also tracking how much leave each group of students have, so that they have enough leave days available for when they have scheduled you to be on leave.
> 
> In short, no-one here can give you a direct answer right now.



Ok, thank you.


----------



## c4th

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> And grad... not worth it again, you will need the extra time and there will be lots of  ceremonies in your career...



This is sound advice.  If you or your loved ones are going to spend large chunks of cash to see a grad parade save it for your trade QL3.  You'll understand when you're through it.

Personally, save the cash and the leave until you can get back home on a longer leave.


----------



## tencezero

Trust No One said:
			
		

> This is sound advice.  If you or your loved ones are going to spend large chunks of cash to see a grad parade save it for your trade QL3.  You'll understand when you're through it.
> 
> Personally, save the cash and the leave until you can get back home on a longer leave.



I agree, I spoke to my Brother (2nd PPCLI)  he gave me similar advice. said to wait till the end of my training and that BMQ/SQ/BIQ grad ain't that big of a deal. Also waiting will help keep me in the mindset of my training.


Thank guys for the Replies, helped alot.


----------



## forumdood007

I'm with everyone saying save your money. Like mentioned you graduate Thursday. On Wednesday, we were allowed to see our loved ones for 1 hour (at the Mega, second floor only). And then again from after the parade till 10PM Thursday night (we could leave the Mega from about 6PM on. Crappy and hardly worth the expense. Wait till you leave the Mega, take some well deserved leave and then see loved ones properly. Just my experience and opinion.


----------



## Kj84

I'm a hull tech recruit. Swearing in aug 24 BMQ starting 09/05/11. Reg force. My question is if/when there is down time between BMQ and Naval Environmental Training or between any round of training. Do you get paid? I used the search button and could not find a specific answer to this question. 
Thanks


----------



## aesop081

Kj84 said:
			
		

> Do you get paid?



Yes.


----------



## Kj84

Will I get paid too?
I realized I phrased that question wrong. 
Thanks


----------



## Romanmaz

Kj84 said:
			
		

> Will I get paid too?
> I realized I phrased that question wrong.
> Thanks


(sarcasm) No, just everyone else. (sarcasm)


----------



## aesop081

Kj84 said:
			
		

> Will I get paid too?
> I realized I phrased that question wrong.
> Thanks



Jesus wept.

Yes, you will get paid too. I understood what you were asking, i'm not stupid.

From day one of BMQ, you are a salaried "employee" of the government. If there is time between BMQ and your trades training, you are employed in some capacity while you are waiting and thus get paid.


----------



## Kj84

Hahaha
I'm not implying anyone on here would be a smart alek because of a poorly phrased question..(also sarcasm)

Thanks for the replies. (not sarcasm)


----------



## Pusser

Even if you take leave between courses, you will be paid.


----------



## Devonm123

Forgive my ignorance but what leave can you get between courses, is it paid vacation or something else. I am starting Bmq aug. 29 th


----------



## frank1515

You file a CF100. It is either approved or denied by your chain of command. You are given a certain amount of annual leave (not sure exactly how much) that you can use depending on your time in. Sometimes you will be allowed to go on leave, sometimes not, depending on many reasons. 

All annual leave is paid.


----------



## Devonm123

Apparently you get 20 days paid vacation from day one, can somebody clarify if taking leave is separate from these vacation days or is taking leave and paid vacation the same thing.


----------



## Neolithium

Devonm123 said:
			
		

> Apparently you get 20 days paid vacation from day one, can somebody clarify if taking leave is separate from these vacation days or is taking leave and paid vacation the same thing.


20 days annual paid leave.  They're the same thing.


----------



## Strike

Neolithium said:
			
		

> 20 days annual paid leave.  They're the same thing.



To make it a LITTLE easier to understand, those 20 days annual leave are on top of statuatory holidays (which sometimes you may not get depending on how training/exercises/operations are going).  You do not have to spend an Annual day for a statuatory holiday or weekend.


----------



## Devonm123

Thank you that's the answer I was looking for. Another question, does seniority affect what times of the year lower ranked persons are allowed leave.


----------



## Hurricane

Not usually, there are enough lackeys around to cover off your position There is however "Block Leave" Which is the timeframe where everyone is encouraged to take their leave. But all of these questions will be covered in detail during your BMQ lessons. The various types of leave being one of them.


----------



## aesop081

Hurricane said:
			
		

> There is however "Block Leave"



Not everyone in the CF lives by block leave. There are entire CF units that do not get to shut down because it is summer or because it is Christmas time.


----------



## Devonm123

Thanks for the answers this helps.


----------



## Hurricane

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Not everyone in the CF lives by block leave. There are entire CF units that do not get to shut down because it is summer or because it is Christmas time.



My unit doesnt "Shut Down" Either. Simply has alot of people on leave at the same time.


----------



## blbenzies

1) When you're waiting to go on course, are you required to live in barracks, or are you permitted to live off-base with a SO? I understand during training that SOs have no place to live with you until after you get posted (and even then, that depends on marriage/common-law).

2) Moving from infantry to med tech, out of pure curiosity, will there be much kit to give back to stores, or since they'll both be army trades the kit will be the same?

Thank you in advance for the help.


----------



## sarahsmom

You are not guaranteed to stay army when switching from Infantry to Med Tech. Med Tech is a purple trade, so it can be any element.  I know of one infanteer who is now an Air Force medic and another who was armoured and is now navy. Depends on what the military needs. In the past I was told the military likes to have 60% army, 20% air and 20% navy. These percentages may have changed in the last few years. 

On Pat Platoon, if you do not wish to live in shacks, you can write a memo through your CoC requesting permission to live off base. Again, no guarantees. You may still be required to maintain a bed space in the shacks for inspections etc. You can also apply to do OJT/OJE at your home city if there is a base nearby. I was lucky enough to get to go home during 6 of the 9 month wait for my course. Others filled their time doing driver wheel courses and being patients for the med students.

Hope that answers some of your questions.


----------



## blbenzies

Yes, that was very helpful, thank you very much!


----------



## Brandonfw

sarahsmom said:
			
		

> You are not guaranteed to stay army when switching from Infantry to Med Tech. Med Tech is a purple trade, so it can be any element.  I know of one infanteer who is now an Air Force medic and another who was armoured and is now navy. Depends on what the military needs. In the past I was told the military likes to have 60% army, 20% air and 20% navy. These percentages may have changed in the last few years.
> 
> On Pat Platoon, if you do not wish to live in shacks, you can write a memo through your CoC requesting permission to live off base. Again, no guarantees. You may still be required to maintain a bed space in the shacks for inspections etc. You can also apply to do OJT/OJE at your home city if there is a base nearby. I was lucky enough to get to go home during 6 of the 9 month wait for my course. Others filled their time doing driver wheel courses and being patients for the med students.
> 
> Hope that answers some of your questions.



If I end up doing my OJT (which is 18 months), will I finish my OJT before I go on course, or will they cut it short, send me on course, then after that continue my OJT?


----------



## sarahsmom

How do you know your OJT is 18 months? Is it a trade specific thing? 
As a medic, I was told we don't have OJT anymore, only OJE. OJE has no definite set lengths, so it finishes when you are finally loaded onto your course. And no guarantees of returning to that same clinic after your 3s.
YMMV


----------



## RedcapCrusader

sarahsmom said:
			
		

> How do you know your OJT is 18 months? Is it a trade specific thing?
> As a medic, I was told we don't have OJT anymore, only OJE. OJE has no definite set lengths, so it finishes when you are finally loaded onto your course. And no guarantees of returning to that same clinic after your 3s.
> YMMV



Yes OJT is trade specific. Different trades have different lengths depending on how technical they are


----------



## Brandonfw

sarahsmom said:
			
		

> How do you know your OJT is 18 months? Is it a trade specific thing?
> As a medic, I was told we don't have OJT anymore, only OJE. OJE has no definite set lengths, so it finishes when you are finally loaded onto your course. And no guarantees of returning to that same clinic after your 3s.
> YMMV



I know this, because my File Manager told me it was 18 months of OJT for Vehicle Tech.


----------



## jlv031

Veh tech ojt can be 6 months up to 2 years. I saw more than that but it was due to parental leave. But most of my course did it in 18 months.


----------



## shunting89

I'm currently on PAT Pl until end of September when i start poet and I got approved to get a pmq with my SO with no hassles, it's very easy to get a pmq all you need to do is put a request to vacate through your CoC


----------



## CJS21

I will soon be part of PAT platoon in Gagetown as armoured. Quick question. What's the cost of living in shacks on base ( rations and such) per month?


----------



## Ayrsayle

shunting89 said:
			
		

> I'm currently on PAT Pl until end of September when i start poet and I got approved to get a pmq with my SO with no hassles, it's very easy to get a pmq all you need to do is put a request to vacate through your CoC



While the experience was "easy" for you, it will entirely depend on the CoC involved, circumstances, and a whole host of other variables.  For everyone that finds it easy, there is a fair number who unfortunately did not.  

In contrast - I had a friend (Armoured) who was injured but ultimately passed BMOQ when we headed to Gagetown.  His injury made him unable to be loaded on any courses, and he spent the next two years getting surgeries and unable to move out of quarters (despite knowledge of how long he would be unable to continue training).  Only way he ended up living with his wife again was when he requested a posting to a staff position elsewhere.

So your milage may vary.


----------



## medeiros87

Hey, I have a question regarding when I'm able to move my girlfriend to live with me after bmq.I'm listed as single because we have only been together for a year and living together for 6 months. 

Thank you.

Adam


----------



## George Wallace

medeiros87 said:
			
		

> Hey, I have a question regarding when I'm able to move my girlfriend to live with me after bmq.I'm listed as single because we have only been together for a year and living together for 6 months.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Adam



DON"T DO IT!


----------



## medeiros87

Lol, no seriously. Any idea?


----------



## ModlrMike

You've not given us enough information to give you an adequate answer.

I'm going to presume that you're Reg Force. If that's the case, then it's unlikely your girlfriend will be able to live "with" you while you undertake QL3 training. What some folks have managed to do is to move their partner to a nearby town and rent on the economy. You may still be required to maintain a barrack room and pay for rations, so it may prove costly to choose this path. 

In any event, you will have to check with the school you will be attending next to see what your options are.


----------



## medeiros87

Thank you and yes I'm reg force. I'm enrolled as a vehicle tech. I already completed an automotive apprenticeship so my schooling after bmq, sq, and my driver training has been shortened a great deal. I have 12 courses I have to complete and I was told by my local recruiting center that it might only be a months worth or even shorter.

Thanks.


----------



## mkil

Your course may be only a couple months in total, but there are several parts to your trades course. Each section may have weeks or months waiting in between. And directly after BMQ, you will be put on PAT platoon (personnel awaiting training) until you are course loaded. This could be a week or a year - you will have no idea until you get to Borden. 

Even if you were married, you are unable to move any spouse or dependents to Borden while you are doing your QL3 training. Once you get posted after your QL3 she can move with you - but because you are no officially common law you will not receive financial compensation for her travel, she will not be able to accompany you on a house hunting trip or meal allowances. If you tie the knot prior to moving, then you will be entitled to those benefits.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

mkil said:
			
		

> Once you get posted after your QL3 she can move with you - but because you are no officially common law you will not receive financial compensation for her travel, she will not be able to accompany you on a house hunting trip or meal allowances. If you tie the knot prior to moving, then you will be entitled to those benefits.



The OP says they have lived together for 6 months.  After they live together for a year, they can submit documents for Common Law Status.  If the OP is away for 4 of those months because of service reasons, they can still count them.  So, it will be possible for the OP to attain CLS before his/her posting after attaining Career Status.

If/when the OP is successful at common law status, as long as it is before a COS date after trg, they would be entitled to a cost move including the common law spouse.


----------



## medeiros87

Oh OK. Thanks for the info guys. Looks like it could be a while.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Probably.  Basically, you are entitled to a 'cost move' when you reach "Career Status",which is defined as QL3 qualified OR 3 years of service, whichever comes first.

However, you can apply to your CO for Common Law Status after the 12 months residing together part.  That would require you to remain residing with her until you depart for CFLRS and that your primary residence remain that address, with her still living there, for the duration of the 12 months.

Then, enquire into your CofC about applying for CLS.  Cheers.


----------



## medeiros87

Perfect OK. I'm going to be sending my gf half of each months rent through e-transfer while in St.Jean and having her still get receipts. Thanks again. I was just talking to a friend of my parents who's son left for bmq a year ago and now is in Borden. I guess he was told it was 6 months common law ( don't know if it changed again or not) and he was able to move his gf and child to Borden because his training is going to take over a year. I guess he was also told that they usually won't move your spouse up if your time in Borden looks like it will be less than a year? Anyways, thanks again. I guess I'll have to figure it all out for myself after my bmq.


----------



## medeiros87

Thanks though for taking the time to answer me. I'm not at all challenging your info either. It seems like there are some different factors that come into play when trying to figure this all out. The info at least gives me an idea of what to expect.


----------



## kratz

medeiros87 said:
			
		

> ...he was told it was 6 months common law ( don't know if it changed again or not) and he was able to move his gf *and child *  to Borden because his training is going to take over a year...




This is the problem when comparing examples with other people. Your friend has a child with his common law wife, that changes what he is entitled to compared to what you have posted here.


----------



## mkil

Your friend was probably also in a hard air force trade - their training is much much longer. He likely was permitted to move into a PMQ with them, but he moved them there on his own dime. I am married, with a child and I was away from home for 1 year and 11 months. What Eye in the Sky said is probably your best bet - although make sure you have proof that you have resided with her as long as you say. My orderly room wanted bills with both our names on it going to the home address, or several from each person with the same addresses. Just make sure you get all your duckies in a row before you file paperwork. A lot faster to file it correct the first time, than to wait and have it sent back down because of one missing document. Best of Luck !


----------



## Aquila

Hey guys just had a simple question couldn't find it in my forms, or in a thread. Do we get any time off after the 3 month BMQ? Or is it just straight from one to the other.


----------



## lohocard

I think it depends on your trade. For me, apparently I go straight to Borden the next day and don't have any time off. I'm on week 9 BMQ. I'm also a supply tech.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aquila

Ah, I see. I'm going in on November 6th to BMQ as an infantryman.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

Aquila said:
			
		

> Hey guys just had a simple question couldn't find it in my forms, or in a thread. Do we get any time off after the 3 month BMQ? Or is it just straight from one to the other.



Depends on if you're loaded on a course or not, noone but your staff will know when you finish BMQ and get sent to your next spot. You will fly out the day after your graduation to whatever location your trades training is where you will be on a holding platoon until you get loaded on course.


----------



## mariomike

Aquila said:
			
		

> Do we get any time off after the 3 month BMQ?





			
				jwsteele said:
			
		

> You don't get time off because you complete courses.


----------



## sckurtis

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Depends on if you're loaded on a course or not, noone but your staff will know when you finish BMQ and get sent to your next spot. You will fly out the day after your graduation to whatever location your trades training is where you will be on a holding platoon until you get loaded on course.



if you are put on a holding platoon for a bit what kind of stuff do you do?


----------



## mariomike

sckurtis said:
			
		

> if you are put on a holding platoon for a bit what kind of stuff do you do?





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Holding platoon is a armoured term for PAT Platoon.



Personnel Awaiting Training ( PAT )  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/583.150.html
7 pages.


----------

