# Belgian camouflage! no joke!



## AlphaCharlie (2 Jun 2004)

This photo is not altered in any way. Hehe.... they'd blend right in... at the carnival.


----------



## D-n-A (2 Jun 2004)

Its probably effective in their country, but here they'd stick out.


Its not as bad as the old swiss camo pattern, that had a lot of red in it.


----------



## Fruss (2 Jun 2004)

Holy molly (to be polite)!!   I blend better than that in the wood with my hunting (orange) vest!!     :dontpanic:

As we say in french: "Maudit Francais (ou belge, c'est pareil)"     :


----------



## Da_man (2 Jun 2004)

no shit


----------



## tabernac (2 Jun 2004)

I think that it looks better than the old solid green Canadian uniforms, if these are their older ones.


----------



## MG34 (2 Jun 2004)

The Belgain pattern works quite well in the area it was designed for,namely Europe.The Swiss pattern is quite effective (yes the old red one) in areas with lots of pine trees just like ..hmm I don't know Switzerland!!! Judging a camo pattern with the troops standing in the open is a pretty uiseless way to do it as no cam pattern is effective  when standing in a frigging parking lot.  :


----------



## D-n-A (2 Jun 2004)

I dunno, I saw a picture of swiss troops in the red cam pattern, an it wasn't that effective. The troops were in a forest.  The new swiss cam pattern works/looks better in my opinion.


----------



## Fruss (3 Jun 2004)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Judging a camo pattern with the troops standing in the open is a pretty uiseless way to do it as no cam pattern is effective   when standing in a frigging parking lot.   :



You have to admit that it looks weird anyways..    I don't doubt that if they adopted it, it's because it's working in a way..

Life is a joke..  if you don't laugh, well, you're not funny...  Does that make sense??  no??  ok then, I'll get back to work!!   ;D  

Sorry guy, I'm a little tired!  :boring:


----------



## scm77 (3 Jun 2004)

That stuff looks funny.  But if it works, who cares.  In my opinion the ugliest cam is the german temperate pattern (flecktarn??).  Tres ugly.


----------



## hhour48 (3 Jun 2004)

Here are some pictures of belgian Paras in action:
the camo pattern doesn't look too bad in the field

http://www.mil.be/armycomp/gallery.asp?LAN=E&ID=141
http://www.mil.be/armycomp/gallery.asp?LAN=E&ID=142
http://www.mil.be/armycomp/gallery.asp?LAN=E&ID=143


----------



## CI Dumaran (3 Jun 2004)

It's all up to the operational environment... Sure, it works in belgium...

I think that the hue on the camo is a little fruity, but I see where the conclusion of effectiveness is derived.

Of all the european camos, my favs, would be flectarn and Alpineflage.

Cheers


----------



## muskrat89 (3 Jun 2004)

Somewhere, I bet there's a Belgian message board with a thread entitled "Canadian Trucks - No joke!!"  I think we have lots of room for improvement before criticizing the effectiveness of another country's camouflage patterns, particularly, when most of us have never operated in their AOs (or anybody's AOs, for that matter)     :


----------



## Evan (3 Jun 2004)

im more of a fan of the danish (m8?) or something like that. its quite similer to the original cadpat (non digital)


----------



## girlfiredup (3 Jun 2004)

Wow, who came up with that colour scheme...the makers of play-doh?  Those are fruity looking!  But if it works for them, great.


----------



## Spr.Earl (5 Jun 2004)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> I think that it looks better than the old solid green Canadian uniforms, if these are their older ones.


There was nothing wrong with our old combat's, I've used them in Yakima in the high desert and all's we did was cover our selves in dust and we meleded in quite well when hiding in the scrub!
The only bich I have is they melt!!
We need a all cotten uniform,no synthetic's just an all natural material to save us from serious burn's.
Guess what our new uniform is made of?


----------



## Redeye (5 Jun 2004)

All cotton?  Man that would suck if it got wet, it would take forever and a day to dry.  At least the stuff the current uniforms are made of, though it's not perfect, is fairly quick to dry and easy to clean.  That makes it much more functional, IMHO.


----------



## chrisf (5 Jun 2004)

The new uniforms melt?

I've never tried it with the old uniforms, but I watched a buddy hold a lighter against one of the new uniforms for a good couple of minutes... didn't burn (A second guy tried it, cursed after a few seconds and jumped away... didn't realise the first guy was also wearing long johns underneath.


----------



## Korus (11 Jun 2004)

> Its not as bad as the old swiss camo pattern, that had a lot of red in it.



A while back we did an ex where we brought out a couple different camouflage types. The swiss cam, although a bit faded, worked INCREDIBLY well in Albertan fall conditions...


----------



## rehcamuhcs (12 Jun 2004)

Hey , sorry for my englisch , its because i'am a belian paratrooper who whil go to afghanistan next month . I thougt it's the man who's in the dress that counts and not the dress itself. So we shall see who is better  , the belgian or the canadians .

Hope we will meet eachother 

Greeetz  Marc Motten 

Belgian  Army


----------



## D-n-A (12 Jun 2004)

Use the spell checker.

Also, what do you mean, you will see who's better, the Canadians or the Belgians? Better at what?


How long has Belgium been in Afghanistan, I haven't heard anything about them being there.


----------



## rehcamuhcs (12 Jun 2004)

D-n-A said:
			
		

> Use the spell checker.
> 
> Also, what do you mean, you will see who's better, the Canadians or the Belgians? Better at what?
> 
> ...



No  ,thats wright ,thats because the Belgian army has only troops on the airfield . (And those gays are the army ). And now they sending us ( the paratroopers )for the first time to Afghanistan .And i think Will meet ,because we are staying at camp Julian . Thats not our fault its the governments.And , I'm not attackking you ,i only mean that on exercises the camo has his effect and and yours Will have his effect to . Its the man and not the material


greets Marc motten

Belgian airborne
31 years
Somalia 93
Rwanda 94
Kosovo 02
Afghanistan 04


----------



## Korus (12 Jun 2004)

> Its the man and not the material



Very true.

Welcome to the Board, rehcamuhcs.


----------



## Danjanou (13 Jun 2004)

rehcamuhcs welcome to the board. Excuse the idiots, that occasionally post here, I'm sure you have them in the Belgium Army too. We do try to control them though. 

You're right its the man not the bloody clothes. Real soldiers can do the job wearing just about anything. 

Don't worry about the English either, practice will make it better and it's not like most members of this board are fluent in French   let alone Flemish. BTW we also have a francophone section on the board.


----------



## ags281 (13 Jun 2004)

If it's stupid but it works it isn't stupid.


----------



## chriscalow (15 Jun 2004)

You know what? I thought the pics of the troops in the field, looked good.  Of course they werent invisible, but thats not what they were trying to be at the time anyways.  I'm sure if they were in the bush, especially during fall, they would be tough to spot.


----------



## governorgeneral (16 Jun 2004)

How about the new US Army combats?  http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=6042


----------



## combat_medic (16 Jun 2004)

Muskrat: you took the words right out of my mouth!


----------



## AZA-02 (19 Jun 2004)

"maudit francais" a la la allez l`OM

what happens when theire out on a peace keeping msision
in a foreing country. If they do?


----------



## 1feral1 (19 Jun 2004)

When I first saw the AUSCAM her in Australia, I just  :, but its the best thing for here, and it comes in a desert version too. Anyways the AUSCAM just blends into the land here, see for yourself at my recent upload of teh cam net tangled in the wheels of  a 105mm hamel Gun.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## lance (19 Jun 2004)

QY Rang cdt said:
			
		

> You know what? I thought the pics of the troops in the field, looked good.   Of course they werent invisible, but thats not what they were trying to be at the time anyways.   I'm sure if they were in the bush, especially during fall, they would be tough to spot.


yeah, but with a  :fifty: i don't think it's easy to be invisible.
grtz


----------



## rehcamuhcs (11 Jul 2004)

here you find a link of some pics of our desert camo.

 http://www.mil.be/isaf/gall/index.asp?LAN=nl&FILE=gall&ID=4620&IDS=43 

It's new and we only got the   pants and the jacket . Unfortunately we don't have a head ,a helmet cover and a Flack jacket
Belgian army you now


_Modified by moderator 12/07/04 to allow link to work._


----------



## commando_wolf63 (12 Jul 2004)

the Belgian cammo YIKES  coming from a woman.  the colors look like something a woman would come up with what was she thinking the idea of cammo is to blend in not stand out.


----------



## girlfiredup (12 Jul 2004)

How do you know the idea came from a woman?  Maybe some fruity guy came up with the idea?  Nonetheless, bad idea.


----------



## rehcamuhcs (12 Jul 2004)

Comeon show me some pics and we will see if thats so good . Because what is the reason your laughing ?
Is yours maybe better , nicer  sweater . So show some pics and will see


----------



## rehcamuhcs (15 Jul 2004)

laughing with somebody or somebody's equipment is easy ,but when there is a reaction on you , you like so afraid . I just ask some evidence and i don't get any response afraid that they laughing whit you?

This i not an attack , its just the truth


----------



## Infanteer (15 Jul 2004)

Seeing how all uniforms turn dirt brown after a few days in the field, I think any real soldier wouldn't really care to start a pissing match over camo patterns.


----------



## Bracchus (19 Sep 2004)

Hi,
I have read the messages about the Belgian camo pattern in use today. I can say it works well in the environment it's designed for ur own country, Europe and even in some African countries.
For the ISAF assignments in Afghanistan, Belgian soldiers are equipped with desert camo suits.
For BELUKOS in Kosovo they wear the standard camo.
Look for yourself if it works or not...
www.mil.be
The camo pattern used before this one was the "Flecktarn". It is ugly as hell, but very effective too. Some Belgian units still wear the flecktarn today.

Sure the colors used are rather uncommon, but they do the job quite well ! As well in spring, summer and fall (certainly).

Grtz,

Bracchus


----------



## chrisf (19 Sep 2004)

I've seen various flecktarn patterns... they've always looked like they'd be quite effective...

Regarding the belgian cam, I note a lack of black? No simulation of shadow... I'd imagine that alone would be enough to bring down the effectiveness considerably.


----------



## VRC (19 Sep 2004)

This can't be any worse than the proposed new U.S. camo that's designed to blend into temperate, arid & urban backgrounds...

VRC


----------



## Bob the builder (20 Sep 2004)

One thing that I noticed in some of the pictures  is that the guys arent wearing their combat shirts under their vests, just their t-shirts. They should get it on before they catch a cold...


----------



## Bracchus (20 Sep 2004)

Sure there is some black in the Belgian camo and also a very, very little white stripe.


----------



## chrisf (20 Sep 2004)

Ah... look, there is black. Not much of it though. I can still it being effective in the right envrioment... I can see it being very effective in an area with high iron soil... can anyone say "invasion of PEI"?


----------



## Scratch_043 (20 Sep 2004)

I actually think that the dark camo looks good, and as stated many times before, it probably works better than anything else in their AO.

but I still like the CADPAT better.


----------



## Niss (12 Dec 2004)

When I first encountered the belgian camo in my store i thought it was some kiddy knock off crap, but now I realize that it is a real uniform, my apologies. But I am reminded of a saying "We decided to give you good camoflauge for where you are, rather than perfect camoflauge for somewhere else."


----------



## Thompson_JM (13 Dec 2004)

I remember a freind of mine from the unit telling me that when they were on "Ex Southern Drive" i belive it was. They were doing work at night with the Yanks, and (from what i was told) our CADPAT basically Glowed in the Dark when veiwed through NVG's whereas the American stuff was alot darker...  I dont know, I wasnt there. Perhaps someone else could clarify this one for me?

and like the others posted. Its the Soldier not the Uniform....

Seriously though... remember what you learned in kindergarden... If you cant say anything nice.......

remember for alot of soldier the uniform is a source of pride and patriotism.  I know my chest got a little bigger when i put the OD's on for the first time.


Cheers
    Josh


----------



## Cooper (13 Dec 2004)

I've seen people wearing CADPAT through NVGs a few times, each time they were quite difficult to locate.... and they were 5 feet infront of me.

But yeah, back to the new American camo pattern. I don't see how that could blend into ANYTHING excpet maybe the arctic.


----------



## Blackhorse7 (13 Dec 2004)

I like the new American Military pattern.  I think the MARPAT looks a cool, but the army pattern looks like it has a bit more of a broad spectrum.  The best thing about it is that they listened to the troops when designing it.  I mean, being there to talk to the troops who JUST wore it on a mission to get their immediate comments... you just don't get better testing than that.  But the name tapes stick out like neon signs.


----------



## dr.no (13 Dec 2004)

Given a choice between the belgian or the american camo, I'd take the belgian in an instant. Not only does it look like it would blend in better, the velco neck of the american one looks like it could chafe. And the patches stick out. They sort of remind me of the Canadian cadpat after it's been faded badly.  :warstory: <- Still, must work better than this dudes elvis camo


----------



## P Kaye (14 Dec 2004)

People are saying that this Belgian pattern works for their environment, in Europe.  I don't see how.  I've been all over Europe.  The trees and grass there are green.  What environment could possibly be suited to purple, blue and yellow pattern?


----------



## Bracchus (12 Jan 2005)

there is no purple, blue or yellow if you look well.


----------



## soldiers301 (12 Jan 2005)

To reply on the new US ACU, I think is a big error from the US Army. No black, grey colour... I dont see any forest or desert area with no black ... and even not with grey colour. I think that if they want to change their uniform, why not issue MARPAT to all US Army. Thats what they do in the past with the current US camo. 

The belgian camouflage ...I will never worn it so I dont make difference.


----------



## Niss (13 Feb 2005)

Like any camoflauge they become more effective as the distance between you and the person wearing it is increased, there are many factors that will affect the effectivness of the camo. I would think it would be difficult to guage how good it is, untill you are actually there in the field looking for them. Bear in mind, when you stick anything thats CADPAT in an environment with out thoes greens, blacks, or browns, it sticks out as if it was blaze orange.

Niss


----------



## soldiers301 (13 Feb 2005)

Yeah I agree with you on that, but I still think that have different camouflage uniform for each environment is better than only one for all.


----------



## purple peguin (13 Feb 2005)

On the pockets/ places where you would put the unit badges, with them being velcro doesnt velcro get all fuzzy and wont stick making it almost useless?- new american pattern.And i think that is very odd that they use grey in it because i dont recall seeing grey leaves/ vegitation in the forest.


----------



## Jungle (13 Feb 2005)

Regarding the US ACU, there is already a thread here: http://army.ca/forums/threads/16970.0.html
The Belgians have been experimenting with cam patterns for a long time, so I trust they have come up with something that they find acceptable.
Regarding the colours or patterns, I did not attend camouflage university but I probably have enough experience to talk about it... It is very difficult to come up with an "all around" pattern. There has to be some compromise... As I stated before in another thread , black does not exist in nature. It is used in woodland patterns to simulate shadows, which there are a lot. That is also the reason black is absent from desert patterns; there is very little shadow on bare sand.
Another important aspect is the human eye: it is designed to easily detect the movement of light colours; that is part of the reason Police cars are painted white. So the ACU will probably not be as effective as Soldiers would like in woodland, but fairly effective in desert conditions.
And where are most conflicts taking the US Army recently ??


----------



## PVT DJ (16 Feb 2005)

I like the looks of the Belgian Camo but the us camo looks uncomfortable


----------



## Freddy Chef (16 Feb 2005)

Why things are seen:

* Texture
* Colour
   Movement 
   Noise
   Position
* Shine
* Shape
   Silhouette
   Shadow
   Scale
   Spacing

â Å“Disruptive Patternâ ? as the British coined it, is the mentality behind any camouflage pattern in a fatigue/field uniform: which is meant to address Texture, Colour, Shine and Shape.

I believe the Australians pioneered the technique of repeatedly flying a RECCE aircraft over a terrain, taking numerous photos, plugging the data into a computer and having it calculate the optimum colours for a cam pattern. Apparently the US Army tried to do that with *every terrain on the planet* and got three tones of grey. IMHO, this *jack of all trades* colour selection technique is a waste of energy and resources. The *computer average* will miss certain terrains. As a few posts had pointed out, the colours will fade after several washings, and in the field, a soldier's combats will eventually look like mud and dirt. Easiest/cheapest to stick with a base colour (olive drab for woodland, tan for arid) and (arctic whites being the exception) 'scrim' to the environment/theatre of operations. [The only thing I'd agree with is a two tone, disruptive pattern. The KISS rule, *less is more*.]

I'm sure any soldier would criticize their defence department in the selection of the colours of their new combats. When CADPAT (relish  ) first came out, it reminded me of a 1970's couch and carpet design, which *stood out* rather than *blended in* :. So, as one of Murphy's Laws goes, *â ?the defence contract will go to the lowest bidderâ ?*, and you'll be getting that company's *interpretation of green, brown, etc*. This seems to ring true for Canada, the US, and Belgium.


----------

