# Int Op trade tell me more and more reg force please



## navy_man (29 May 2005)

I am going to be doing a remuster to int op 111 as soon as humanly possible...Wed is the BPSO appt....but what I need to know are some more specifics about the trade. 
Are there specialty areas? 

Are my chances better if I switch elements as well?

Where's the most likely posting?

Whats the promotion rate like?

Is it a truly a stressed trade?

Can I hope for overseas deployment 1 every 2 years or so?(I like to go away, my wife doesn't but the money's good and so's the pride)

Can someone please please help me. I want in and I want in bad....I'm a NAv Comm.

To answer I know the basics of the trade and I have my 4 yrs+ under my belt.

B


----------



## Acorn (29 May 2005)

Here're a couple of Reg Force answers:

Are there specialty areas?  Yes - Imagery Interpreter is probably the best known. There are other specialty courses, Canadian and foreign, that may be available to you.

Are my chances better if I switch elements as well? That'll be determined if you're accepted. If the Branch needs more Army uniforms, you'll be asked to switch. If you think an Army uniform will help you (it might if deployments are high on your list of things to do - but be careful what you wish for) you can ask. The Branch is streaming environmentally now, so you may find yourself keeping the sailor suit without any option.

Where's the most likely posting? Can't say. It depends on where Cpl/LS are needed at the end of the QL5A.

Whats the promotion rate like? Too fast.

Is it a truly a stressed trade? Well, on a certain level, yes. We've been short 30-40 people at the Sgt level for at least 15 years (briefly eased by the closure of CF Europe, but quickly recovered by expansion). We sometimes have trouble filling Cpl and MCpl positions due to the speed of promotion.

Can I hope for overseas deployment 1 every 2 years or so?(I like to go away, my wife doesn't but the money's good and so's the pride) Depends on where you're posted. A brigade or LFA posting guarantees at least one deployment in every 2-3 years. Some of the higher HQs or units also get deploymenst.

Just so you know, selection has been made for the next QL5A (in the Fall) so the earliest you could expect to get a course is next Spring.

Good luck.

Acorn


----------



## navy_man (30 May 2005)

thanks for the help.

When are the specialties available, at the 6 level or above or just after 5's?

Also what can I do to increasse my chances?


----------



## George Wallace (30 May 2005)

One suggestion would be to take a Cbt Int Crse.  In some cases, this has lead to further Int Crses and OT.  Timing is the thing.  If there is a push on for more Int Ops, your chances will increase.  No matter what, the Cbt Int Crse will still give you a little bit of a leg up in the process, over others without experience.  It may lead to an Int Posn at your Unit, that may give you a few 'points' towards an OT, depending on you abilities.  Predicting how the OT process will progress at any one time is a truly imprecise art.


----------



## Acorn (31 May 2005)

As George said, a Combat Int course would help, if you were Army. It's been a recruiting tool we've used before. Unfortunately the Navy doesn't have an equivalent. The only thing that might increase your chances would be to take a shore posting with Athena or Trinity, though I don't know if there are NavComm positions there - they tend to use the sensor operator folks.

Specialties come up at all levels. Some are more likely as you advance, and some are better to get into early. 

Acorn


----------



## Arctic Acorn (4 Jun 2005)

Hey Acorn, 

With regard to selection, have you heard anything about the 111 selection board allowing reserve int ops to bypass the selection board and carry on straight to the reg force. Is this contingent on a viable reserve QL5 they're trying to build? 

Also, For res int ops who have their 6A's and component transfer, are there any guidelines on how soon they will regain their rank? 

Cheers,

 :dontpanic:


----------



## aesop081 (4 Jun 2005)

jgale358 said:
			
		

> Hey, I'm an FCS Tech currently posted to Base Maintenance in Gagetown. Recently found out that the eligibility requirements for COTP had changed to QL 4 qualified, which I am. I will also finally have my 4 years in September making me eligible for an OT under the COTP this year. I went for Int Op (obviously, s'why I'm posting here) as I've always had an interest in the trade, which has been recently reinforced through researching the trade further. The wonderful Int WO at the Tactics School here even gave me an hour to talk/ask any questions I might have.
> 
> This is all great but then my warrant pulled me into his office (after getting my memo and application) just to talk and he told me my career manager could shut this down on me - if it even gets that far - as he can choose whether to allow people out of the trade or not based on me NOT actually being QL 5 yet. I'm FCS which is currently a red trade, but it IS open out at the same time..
> 
> ...



The BPSO in Gagetown will tell you if you are eligable or not for OT.  I was in gagetown as well when i remustere and the BPSO's office there has some good folks working.  Your unit is obligated to process your application for OT wether they support it or not.  Only the BPSO can kill your application in Gagetown...after that its the selection boards in Borden that can do that.  My advice to you is make sure of the criterias for COTP ( i remustered last year and you needed QL5A)...and be very suspicious of what you chain of command tells you !


----------



## Acorn (5 Jun 2005)

As far as I know the Int Branch still requires QL5A for remuster. Can you post a ref for the change from QL5 to QL4? I assume a CANFORGEN, what date?

If your trade is Open for remuster out they can't stop you, as far as I know.

JavaMan,

You won't skip selection, ever (even if 6A qualified). The selection board may allow you sto skip a course (i.e. if you're Res 6A qualified, you may be able to skip the 5A, now that the latter is environmentally streamed). Until there's a viable Res 5A course though, I wouldn't expect to skip the reg 5A.

Of course, we need a valid OS, then valid QS etc. The Branch has run it's courses on waivers for years.

Acorn


----------



## Arctic Acorn (10 Jun 2005)

Acorn, 

Gotcha. Gee, that kinda sucks. I'm doing my 6A's next month (just finishing up my PLQ-Land now), and plan to remuster to reg force Air Force/Navy sometime next year. I guess that means I have to start from scratch. At least I'd keep the PLQ. 

Here's another question: If a reg force army Int Op under the new system switches elements, would they forefit their rank? 

Thanks

 :dontpanic:


----------



## Acorn (10 Jun 2005)

Switching elements doesn't cause loss of rank, only switching trades. Transfer from Res to Reg is not a remuster either, even if you wind up in a differnet element. For example, if you decided to CT to Reg as a Res Int Op, you would submit your request, your file would go before the merit board for selection, and your qualifications would be taken into account. It may be determined that you don't need a portion of the 5A, but if you wanted to wear, say, a Navy uniform (or if the selection decided they needed more Navy Int Ops) you may skip te common phase, and only have to do the Navy Environmental phase.

Keep in mind that everything should be prefaced with "may" and "might." There are no guarantees.

Acorn


----------



## Arctic Acorn (11 Jun 2005)

I see. Is the 6A a purple course that all elements take together, or is it environmentally streamed as well? 

Cheers


----------



## Acorn (13 Jun 2005)

At the moment Reg 6A is not environmentally streamed.

Acorn


----------



## Gouki (18 Jun 2005)

I've been reading through the intelligence threads in this subforum and have noticed that a few people have mentioned things like "depends what aspect of intelligence appeals to you most" and "pick that route and go for it"

I am curious, I haven't seen it mentioned it before; what are the different aspects and routes in the intelligence field? I was under the assumption that it encompassed a bit of everything generically but was not aware that there are specific/specialist like routes to take.

Can someone please enlighten me here about this whole thing?


----------



## Acorn (22 Jun 2005)

The CFAO mentions MOC selection standards in addition to the minimums required under the CFAO. I have known very few exceptions of non-5A applicants being accepted into Int, but that was generally under special circumstances. It doesn't stop you from applying, but if you don't have two bones on your slip-on you won't be attending an Int Op QL5A any time soon.

Int sub-specialties are a bit weird, in that most int ops will drift in and out of them with various postings. There are other Int-type trades though, such as the 291 folks (EW/SIGINT), but they're separate trades completely.

In addition, the 5A course is now "environmentally streamed," which means you will get a core phase, and then an environmental phase depending on where your first posting is slated. This could mean a change of DEU. The intent is to have one specialize in providing int support to either the Army, Navy or Air Force as required. If you end up posted to a different environment you'll attend the necessary environmental phase before taking up your position. That's the theory, at least.

Acorn


----------



## custodes (16 Jul 2005)

Right - to provide some detailed information.

I have been initimately involved in the process of writing trade specifications for the Int Op trade and am involved in Int trg and can provide some "straight answers."

First - the Occupation Specification for the Int Op trade requires that you be 5A qualified in your currect trade - that is you must be a Cpl. In the past two years some Ptes have slipped on to the course, however we have now set the record straight with the agencys that selected those people.

Both the 5A and the 6A courses are environmentally streamed - you go back to purple at the 6B level. This does not mean that you may not be "purplely" employed at lower rank levels - just that you will primarily be assigned within your environmental element at those lower rank levels.

You can request to be granted equivalencies for previous int-related training or experience that may enable you to miss out on various elements of basic training - but do not expect too much to be granted  unless you have extensive intelligence-related experience. In fact, unless you have a great deal of specific experience, I can out-and-out tell you that equivalencies will not be granted.

We will accept 6A qualified personnel (I remustered after 4+ years as an Infantry Sgt). You will have to take a reduction in rank to Cpl. However, you will find that we tend to treat our Cpls a bit differently than other trades because many of them have taken rank reductions. The part that hurts the most is the reduction in pay (trust me, I know). However promotion is fast (sometimes too fast for particular individuals!) - I have just had two of my subordinates made up to WO with only 6 years in the trade.


----------



## gelan (19 Nov 2006)

I'm a former 3 RCR infantry soldier and plan on re-enlisting as an Int. Op. What should I be prepared to encounter, time-wise for the Int-Op course in Kingston? I can't find this answer anywhere on these forums, so I would be very appreciative of non-flaming replies. Thanks a lot fellas!

P.S. How long is BMQ/ SQ good for? I've been out since August 2005, do any of you know if I'll still have to go through that shit again?

Thanks a bunch!


----------



## commo_dude (19 Nov 2006)

The INT QL 5 course is 14 wks long. 9 in the common phase and 5 in the element specific phase.

Your qualifications are good for 5 yrs after getting out so you are in luck.

Good luck.


----------



## spud (19 Nov 2006)

commo_dude said:
			
		

> The INT QL 5 course is 14 wks long. 9 in the common phase and 5 in the element specific phase.
> 
> Your qualifications are good for 5 yrs after getting out so you are in luck.
> 
> Good luck.



I REALLY wish I had known Int Op was going to be open to direct entry, I would have investigated it much further. How long since it was "opened up"? 

potato


----------



## George Wallace (19 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> I REALLY wish I had known Int Op was going to be open to direct entry, I would have investigated it much further. How long since it was "opened up"?
> 
> potato



And where did you get this impression?

If you would have read the post you would see that he is a Trained Infantryman.  A Combat Arms Soldier.  One of the desirable Trades that they like to 'poach' from.


----------



## spud (19 Nov 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> And where did you get this impression?
> 
> If you would have read the post you would see that he is a Trained Infantryman.  A Combat Arms Soldier.  One of the desirable Trades that they like to 'poach' from.



I'm sorry George, I don't understand, which impression...direct entry?


----------



## George Wallace (19 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> I'm sorry George, I don't understand, which impression...direct entry?



Yes!  How did you come to this conclusion with the evidence provided?  



			
				spud said:
			
		

> I REALLY wish I had known Int Op was going to be open to direct entry, I would have investigated it much further. How long since it was "opened up"?
> 
> potato



You have created a false impression from your 'analysis' of his statement:



			
				gelan said:
			
		

> I'm a former 3 RCR infantry soldier and plan on re-enlisting as an Int. Op. .............
> 
> ............. I've been out since August 2005, ............



Perhaps you are better off elsewhere after skipping this post.   



			
				commo_dude said:
			
		

> The INT QL 5 course is 14 wks long. 9 in the common phase and 5 in the element specific phase.
> 
> Your qualifications are good for 5 yrs after getting out  so you are in luck.


----------



## gelan (19 Nov 2006)

Thanks George and commo_dude.

Those are the exact answers I needed!


----------



## spud (19 Nov 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Yes!  How did you come to this conclusion with the evidence provided?



Um, well from the evidence provided I deduced that he was a fomer servcice person re-entering the military. Nothing more. But, I then went to the recruiting website and read:

*Entry Plans: The Intelligence Operator occupation is usually available through Occupation Transfer. Preferred candidates should have at least a high school diploma or equivalent. Knowledge of other languages, multi-cultural experience and operational experience are considered an asset.

Other applicants to be considered are:

  Civilian personnel who have formerly served in the CF 

  Component Transfer applicants who are re-enrolling or transferring from the Reserve *


I took this to mean that it is open to direct entry, off the street, (with military experience) ie. not solely occupational transfer.  At the time I was doing my re-enrolment paperwork, I was told that Int Op was an OT trade only. 

potato


----------



## George Wallace (19 Nov 2006)

> Civilian personnel who have formerly served in the CF


  ;D  (That would be like an OT, CT or VOT)

Now, remember you can be an 'applicant', but that still does not mean you have made all the prerequisites that they want and get accepted.  You could have the highest IQ (as a few posters look upon themselves lately) and degrees up the hoop; but if you do not have the proper skills and the 'personality traits' necessary for a certain job or position, you are not likely to get it.  (That goes for any Trade.)


----------



## spud (19 Nov 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D  (That would be like an OT, CT or VOT)
> 
> Now, remember you can be an 'applicant', but that still does not mean you have made all the prerequisites that they want and get accepted.  You could have the highest IQ (as a few posters look upon themselves lately) and degrees up the hoop; but if you do not have the proper skills and the 'personality traits' necessary for a certain job or position, you are not likely to get it.  (That goes for any Trade.)



Understood George, absolutely. Could have saved us a couple of postings if I had explained myself better as well.  

Cheers,
Potato


----------



## gelan (22 Nov 2006)

Hopefully someone is still reading this thread and can answer another  question I have about the Trade in question.

What are the basic requirements for this? The recruiters don't really want to talk to me because they have no openings (until Apr. 1st, which I expected), or maybe it's just this one... 

That issue aside, what previous military qualification level in my old MOC is required to be considered? QL3? QL4?


----------



## commo_dude (22 Nov 2006)

They want you to have at least 4 yrs by the end of the yr you apply in.
They prefer you to have QL5 in your previous trade however there are exceptions.
It is a COTP program so it is an ongoing yearly.
The board sits this month and only sits once per yr so next Nov 2007 is when the next selection board sits.


----------



## gelan (22 Nov 2006)

Looks like being a 111 isn't in the cards for me right now, I don't think I have the experience to enter the trade from the Supp. Res. right now. I'll go into 291 and get some experience in a similar trade and if I can, OT down the line, but I'm sure I'll love being a 291!


Thanks for all the help and answers everyone!


----------



## commo_dude (22 Nov 2006)

First off, they are taking reservists and putting them on reg force QL5 and also taking reservists and allowing them to transfer to Regular force.

I am a former 291er and you will wait 1 to 1 1/2 yrs just for your top secret clearance. 

The majority of Int Ops seems to be from the Combat Arms.

If you really want to go Int Op, don't waste your time in another trade looking to get experience.


----------



## gelan (22 Nov 2006)

I'm being phased out of my current job at the moment, and will not be employed in a short time... I have wanted to get back in for a long while, and this is the opportunity that I need. Every recruiting Center has told me there are no openings for Int Op, and I wouldn't be guaranteed to get in because I don't have the 4 years experience needed. I also don't have any major MOC qualifications besides my Infantry QL3. I can't wait around until April hoping to be accepted in June or, as far as you yourself have said in this thread, not unil Nov Next year. I simply cannot wait this long. I REALLY want Int Op, I have read almost everything I can on it, contacted Res. units to ask what the job actually entails, but all 3 recruiting centers I have spoke to think it's futile for me to even put the application in. I wish this wasnt' the case, but I don't know what else to do. It's a gamble that I'm not personally or financially able to pursue right now.

My father spoke to a former 291 that now works in his area today, and passed on some information about the trade that really interested me. I checked it out and I think I would really enjoy it as well.


----------



## Arctic Acorn (12 Dec 2006)

gelan said:
			
		

> ...all 3 recruiting centers I have spoke to think it's futile for me to even put the application in.



That's why they make you put 3 choices down. Not to paint recruiting centres in a bad light (I know some CFRC folks that are dedicated, switched on types) they really don't have a clue about the trade, or it's requirements. When I joined, they swore up and down that the Branch didn't require anybody, that they were closed, and that there was no way that I would get in. They were full of crap, and I had to personally call the local Res Int unit to find out the truth. The Branch is hurting for Int Ops, and while you may be a year short from having your four years in, that should't stop you from applying if your heart is set on it. I have two reg force individuals working with me that had Privates on their Int Op QL5A serials. 

 :dontpanic:


----------



## gelan (12 Dec 2006)

That really pisses me off, because when I was there, handing in my Application, I had 111 as my #1, and 291 as my #2, but the Captain was standing there and told me to take it off my application because he wouldn't even bother interviewing me for it because it's "mostly internal trade anyway"

It pissed me off, but it wasn't worth it to argue with him, because he's the guy who would be interviewing me anyway.


----------



## George Wallace (12 Dec 2006)

gelan

There is a problem in the CFRCs right now with regard to accepting pers for INT OP.  I know a couple of Res Inf Sgts trying to get into the Trade and getting conflicting info from the Branch and then from the CFRC.  It seems to be a problem with the CFRCs.  Are you currently in the Reserves or on the SUPP List?


----------



## gelan (12 Dec 2006)

I'm on the Supp. Res. List. I thought it would be a good idea to have that tie just in case of a situation like this, should probably make it easier to get in overall.

My application is in, and they scratched 111 off of my application. I'm waiting for them to verify my previous service and then call me for an interview.

I'm not looking for part time employment(Res) I want a full time job, and even though I know the Int trade is begging for people, they aren't willing to even look at me. It's frustrating, I've had way too many bloody roadblocks set in my way when I KNOW according to policy and regs that I'm right. I hate the fact that some people don't want to even investigate to see if there's something to what I'm saying.


----------



## holmessean (3 Jun 2008)

Just wondering how long the Int Op course is. Can't find it anywhere on the forces recruiting website.


----------



## Greymatters (3 Jun 2008)

Try your nearest Int office for further details...


----------



## jeffb (3 Jun 2008)

It's also under the INT Officer section on the recruiting site. 



> Phase III: Basic Intelligence Officer Course
> 
> Basic Intelligence Officer Course (BIOC), conducted at the CF School of Military Intelligence (CFSMI) in Kingston, Ontario, lasts approximately six months and includes intelligence skills and theory, strategic analysis, threat assessment and intelligence support. Emphasis is placed on leadership, administration, writing, oral briefing, and theory and application of intelligence operations. You will learn to supervise and lead an intelligence section in tactical operations. INT Officers reach the operationally functional point upon completion of BIOC which leads to Basic Officer Qualification (BOQ).


----------



## 2 Cdo (3 Jun 2008)

holmessean said:
			
		

> Just wondering how long the Int Op course is. Can't find it anywhere on the forces recruiting website.



That's because it's a secret. If we told you we'd have to kill you!


----------



## MedTechStudent (3 Jun 2008)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> That's because it's a secret. If we told you we'd have to kill you!



Oh man see I was about to tell you every detail about it till 2 Cdo said that.  Sorry.   :-[


----------



## scoutfinch (3 Jun 2008)

jeffb said:
			
		

> It's also under the INT Officer section on the recruiting site.



Int Op and Int O are two different things.


----------



## 2 Cdo (3 Jun 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Oh man see I was about to tell you every detail about it till 2 Cdo said that.  Sorry.   :-[



Nice follow-up. ;D


----------



## jeffb (3 Jun 2008)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Int Op and Int O are two different things.



 :-[ Very true. I misread the original post. Apologies.


----------



## MedTechStudent (3 Jun 2008)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Nice follow-up. ;D



Totally worth it ;D


----------



## Greymatters (3 Jun 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Oh man see I was about to tell you every detail about it till 2 Cdo said that.  Sorry.   :-[



One step away from having to do himself in...


----------



## ltmaverick25 (24 Nov 2008)

The Int Op QL5a course is now broken down into 3 modular sections.  The last time I taught the Mod 3 section in Kingston it was 5 weeks long.  I beleive the Mod 1 and 2 are a total of about 6 weeks long but I am not certain as I taught those in a reserve setting over weekends.  Im in a new trade now so I dont have all the details handy.  However based on my experience, if you were doing it all back to back, you are looking at 12 weeks or so.  But I know they are talking about more changes to the Int Op course that could negate everything ive just said.


----------



## George Wallace (24 Nov 2008)

The current QL5A INT OP Crse has been DECERTIFIED.  You will have to wait until the New Year to find out what the New QL5A will look like.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (24 Nov 2008)

Just as I suspected.  The new one will probably last as long as this old one though.  Its been changing very quickly the past few years.


----------



## Greymatters (26 Nov 2008)

Lot of changes in ideals and how to conduct the work over the last few years, although decertifying it implies a completely new animal to replace it...


----------



## blacktriangle (27 Nov 2008)

Are there many courses run each year, or is it one of those trades that has 1 or 2 run annually?


----------



## Greymatters (28 Nov 2008)

In the past, you were looking at usually 1-2 per year, with a 3rd one every leap year every once in a while...


----------



## blacktriangle (31 Jan 2009)

Has the new QL5 course come out yet? Is the information on the DIN? Are the reg and res pers taking the same course? Having searched this site, I've found some older posts that give conflicting information.  I just want to know so I can have the straight facts for the interview. Obviously I want to get good at finding the information on my own, but most of the open sources I've found seem to be outdated.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (31 Jan 2009)

The new course is out and it is significantly longer both NCM and Officer wise.  Beyond that I dont know much more.


----------



## BradCon (15 Feb 2009)

Hello,

As a person who is interviewing for the INT OP position on Wednesday I do have a great curiosity about what to expect from the trade, and training.

Any insight would be appreciated,

On a related note,
Can a private untrained bring their spouse and child to live in residence at  OT?


Thanks  a tonne for any response


----------



## George Wallace (15 Feb 2009)

BradCon said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> As a person who is interviewing for the INT OP position on Wednesday I do have a great curiosity about what to expect from the trade, and training.
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated,



I am not sure where you are going with this.  Are you joining the Reserves?  Whatever you are joining, try looking up the Trade in the CFRC website - Job Descriptions are all there.




			
				BradCon said:
			
		

> On a related note,
> Can a private untrained bring their spouse and child to live in residence at  OT?
> 
> 
> Thanks  a tonne for any response



Simple answer, with no information:   No.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (15 Feb 2009)

The CFRC job description for Int Ops is extremely vague and non informative to say the least...

As for the job..

At a very basic level, Int Ops start their career as collators.  You can find yourself marking maps, plotting locations of bad guys, keeping a log book, organizing information and presenting basic briefings.  Ultimately Int guys want to know where the bad guys are, and what they are up to, and keep the commander informed of the situation.  You would play a role in that process.  Beyond that, I wont say much more here as we can be running into security issues.  But suffice it to say, what I have said is some very bare bones basic stuff.  The job can get alot more involved and comprehensive then that.  In my humble opinion, it is one of coolest jobs available to NCMs.


----------



## BradCon (15 Feb 2009)

For the responders and for the sake of discussion,

I am joining reg force as every  citizen who can should and yes the recruiting website is very vague, however with some refined searches of the entire DND website I was able to come up with some good descriptors of the job. 

 What I was fishing for here was information from people who are familiar with the job, and can attest to the day to day function of an Int Op; primarily because I want to be well prepared for the interview as I know it will be difficult to secure the position I am after.  Any advice on how to best nab 1 of the remaining 25 spots left for the year?

Thankyou .


----------



## ltmaverick25 (15 Feb 2009)

Day to day really depends...  I have not been reg force Int, I was reserve Int, so there is a certain aspect of daily routine that I wont be able to shed light on.

But it still really depends.  If you are working with the battlegroup in Afghanistan your day to day routine will be very different from someone in the PRT, someone working at Pet, NDHQ, ect...

Thats the good thing about the job, there are so many aspects to it and so many different roles you can do.  For the purposes of the interview, the main things you want to be able to display are that you have a very good knowledge of the job, and that your previous experience will do you well.

Some key attributes they will want to see are professionalism (this is key, if the cbt arms guys think you are a twit, they will never listen to you and your credibility is shot, and your work useless), intellect, analysis skills, good communications both written and oral (previous examples of public speaking will help alot), good IT knowledge.  You will be working with standard microsoft stuff alot, and you will also be working with other specialized programs that are directly pertinent to the job you are doing.  The ability to work well with computers and software is a must.

As for your routine, at home you could be doing 8-4 mon-fri.  In Khandahar, you could be doing 20 hour shifts 7 days a week depending on whats going on.  You are primarily working in an HQ environment be it garrison or operationally, so the ability to conduct yourself appropriately in these environments will also be key.

I realize the answer was vague, but you will have to be more specific with some questions, keeping in mind, there is only so much we can talk about on these forums.


----------



## BradCon (15 Feb 2009)

Lt. Maverick  ;D

I have been quite surprised as I have cruised these forums over the weeks at how supportive CF members are of one another.  My expectations were not that high, I have been pleasantly surprised at content here. You've been most helpful.  

I have some skills to gain, and some skills to build on if I am going to make a good int op, and I'm glad to know this.  I'm hoping to go meet with the W.O. at my local IntCoy before the interview, and arm myself even further

Specific questions are hard to generate this early on, and I am thinking that the broad strokes that are being received will do me quite well.  

What do you think deal breakers would be in the interview?
What type of person would be poorly suited for this position?
20hrs a day 7 days a week, balls are you serious?

What in the way of domestic int is done,  
ie  terrorism on home soil, especially with the 2010 games so close.

Will my desire to be based in the town I live in be taken into consideration?

The QL5A has been revamped from what I gather,  When I am asked about what it is I know about the training can I say its a bit of a snafu or would it be best to describe the  training prior to decertification?


Thanks for making asking easy

B


----------



## ark (16 Feb 2009)

This is your Intelligence Bible:

B-GL-357-001-FP-001

Chapters 1 & 2 provide a good introduction to what Military Intelligence is all about.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (16 Feb 2009)

I strongly suggest that you consider removing that link from your post.  The following warning on the first page of the document, I beleive to be applicable to this type of setting..

WARNING

ALTHOUGH NOT CLASSIFIED THIS PUBLICATION, OR ANY PART OF IT, MAY BE EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE TO THE PUBLIC UNDER THE ACCESS TO INFORMATION ACT.  ANY ELEMENTS OF INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN MUST BE CLOSELY SCRUTINIZED TO ASCERTAIN WHEATHER OR NOT THE PUBLICATION OR ANY PART OF IT MAY BE RELEASED.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (16 Feb 2009)

BradCon said:
			
		

> What do you think deal breakers would be in the interview?
> What type of person would be poorly suited for this position?
> 20hrs a day 7 days a week, balls are you serious?
> 
> ...



I have never served as one of those interviewers so I cannot say for certain.  What I do know, based on what those same guys have told me is that 2/3 of your suitability score is determined before you ever walk in the door.  Your civilian level of education and marks, and your CFAT score make up 2/3 of the score.  The remaining 1/3 is determined by your performance during the interview.

As for deal breakers, if it were me, imaturity, lack of professionalism, and the inability to speak and respond well to questions would make it tough.  Int Ops need to be confident and be able to speak confidently in a room full of brass.

People with lack of initiative, lazy, or just plain dumb would be ill suited for this position, im my opinion.

As for the tempo in Afghanistan.  I havent been, I am just telling you what I have been told.  Remember, as an Int Op you are not involved in combat, you are not running around on the ground staring the taliban in the eye (for the most part anyway) but there are some very good people out there that are, and they are relying on guys like you to keep them alive with accurate, up to date, timely information and intelligence support.  I suspect that the overall tempo is fluid with some parts being as I described and other parts being a little less so, but you need to be prepared for the scenario I illustrated.

Domestic Int is handled by CSIS, RCMP and other government agencies.  The only time military intelligence is used domestically is if there is a request for the aid to the civil power.  In the case of the Vancouver olympics, such a request has been made and the military is playing a huge role in security.  The specific role that Int will play is not something to be discussed here.

No your desire to be based in your home town will not be taken into consideration.  Besides, you can always use the good ole need to know.  They dont need to know that until after the interview 

When you are asked about what you know about the training, tell them what you know about the training, seems simple enough.  When there are areas that you dont know, say so and ask the interviewer for more info.


----------



## ark (16 Feb 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> I strongly suggest that you consider removing that link from your post.  The following warning on the first page of the document, I beleive to be applicable to this type of setting..
> 
> WARNING
> 
> ALTHOUGH NOT CLASSIFIED THIS PUBLICATION, OR ANY PART OF IT, MAY BE EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE TO THE PUBLIC UNDER THE ACCESS TO INFORMATION ACT.  ANY ELEMENTS OF INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN MUST BE CLOSELY SCRUTINIZED TO ASCERTAIN WHEATHER OR NOT THE PUBLICATION OR ANY PART OF IT MAY BE RELEASED.



It is available at the Army Electronic Library public website.


----------



## George Wallace (16 Feb 2009)

ark said:
			
		

> It is available at the Army Electronic Library public website.



So?

Have you ever had a SECURITY Briefing?


----------



## BradCon (16 Feb 2009)

Great 

Leave it to the FNG to play a role in creating a security issue.

I must say though, I had no idea the AEL existed before today, and my eyes and mind are tired from the incredible amount of info that is there.

I guess I can tell the interviewer that I engaged the population and was able to capture sensitive documents.

There is a lot to read if I am successful

Thanks


----------



## ltmaverick25 (16 Feb 2009)

I didnt know that was there either.  If I were you I would not say anything about reading sensitive information during your interview.  Dont side track the interviewer from his routine.


----------



## winnipegoo7 (16 Feb 2009)

Hello.  Please excuse my ignorance, but why can't the link to "B-GL-357-001 - FP-001" be displayed here? Did the Army Electronic Library make the publication available to the public mistakenly?

-Scott


----------



## ltmaverick25 (16 Feb 2009)

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> Hello.  Please excuse my ignorance, but why can't the link to "B-GL-357-001 - FP-001" be displayed here? Did the Army Electronic Library make the publication available to the public mistakenly?
> 
> -Scott



Weather they made a mistake is more a matter of opinion then it is anything else.  I spent more time looking around and it is indeed a public open source of information.  I happen to think it shouldnt be, but, its not my call.


----------



## EW (16 Feb 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> I didn't know that was there either.  If I were you I would not say anything about reading sensitive information during your interview.  Dont side track the interviewer from his routine.



At the same time, you will likely be asked if you have researched the trade.  Keep to the facts and don't make a big thing about 'sensitive documents.'  That document is published to the 'public' side of the AEL.  Any chatter on these forums about the document/doctrine and how it is applied in real-world would be 'sensitive' and possibly classified - that is where the danger lies.  It would be a good thing for the interviewer to know that you have done your homework, and he/she will likely ask if you have any questions about the trade.  Keep your questions simple and in the scope of what you think the trade does.  That document is a good read for a general overview of the various intelligence disciplines.


----------



## BradCon (17 Feb 2009)

I will not mention that I read "sensitive documents".  I wrote that with a little bit of humor intended, not to stroke my own ego or data collection skills.

In the interim, my interview is tomorrow, and this board has helped me to better understand the role of IntOp as well as intelligence in general. 

 If I should not be successful in getting the position, what sort of action should I take next?
 I am well prepared to take an infantry position, but of course would much prefer the former. 
 Any ideas?

B


----------



## ltmaverick25 (17 Feb 2009)

You wont find out right away if you get Int or not.  The interview is really just the first step, not the last.  Though the rest of the steps are admin stuff done without you.

For now, I would put down only Int as a desired trade.  If you add 2nd and 3rd choices when applying for a competitive trade, you are likely to get pushed into your 2nd and 3rd choice.  Dont give them that option, unless they come back and say that you didnt make it this round.  Then you have a decision to make, wait for Int to open up again, or go with another trade in the meantime.  Only you can decide what is best there.


----------



## BradCon (17 Feb 2009)

Yes, I figure there will be some waiting.
What confuses me a bit though, is that a Cpt. at CFRC gave me some of his time and took care of my case personally and convinced me to put int op as my first choice, and he did say that it will be taken into account, whereas an Lt had earlier told me that preference order does not matter I did place infantry as a second choice, because I would like that job too, and experience in combat arms would be good for a transfer in 3 years or so.  

I'll be Keeping my fingers crossed for the extra wait....

B


----------



## BradCon (18 Feb 2009)

Was recommended for employment as an Int Op today....now just have to wait for the opening

I can't wait to serve!


----------



## ltmaverick25 (18 Feb 2009)

Congrats on that,

See the easy part is over now!  Now the hard part starts, the waiting...  I am going through the wait game myself.  I will be doing a CT from reserves to reg force as an Int Officer and the trade is closed to CTs until April, so I have to wait until then for final word.  Did the CFRC give you any indication on when they are opening up Int Op again?


----------



## BradCon (18 Feb 2009)

I've got mixed messages....

One source at CFRC  says there's 25 int op spots left this year, my interviewer very kindly said there's none, and it will be early April before any spots open, also a little discouraging, was in the information that only 5 int ops last year came in from the street. I believe this year is different;  regardless  I hope I'm high on the merit list

So for the time being you'll find me doing PT and reading field manuals.

Thanks for the great info.

Cheers


----------



## George Wallace (18 Feb 2009)

Hate to say it, but you may be out of luck.  Hiring off the street may be put on hold or ceased altogether due to some of the major problems encountered in various aspects of their processing and training.


----------



## BradCon (18 Feb 2009)

Thanks George,

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.  
I don't know if this counts for anything but I do have three years towards a psych degree with a respectable GPA on my side.  I was informed that if I took the year to graduate, I could attempt to go  DEO to Int...
I thought that i'd try NCM for a few years before I try to wear any officer bars or a degree for that matter.

So what I'm asking is,
Does that three years mean that I'm still coming in off the street?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (19 Feb 2009)

When we say coming in off the street, we are referring to civilians with no prior military experience.  So right now you are coming in off the street.  If you joined the army first, as a different trade and then transfered over to Int, you would no longer be coming in off the street...

The Int branch used to be a feeder trade only, meaning you had to have previous military experience to join Int.  However, recruiting was pretty difficult like that so they changed it.  Now it seems that bringing in guys with no corporate knowledge is presenting problems of their own so who knows what will happen.  All you can do is go with what you know now.  Keep pushing your app until you get in or the CFRC says no, then re evaluate from there.

Like I said this is the hard part now...


----------



## blacktriangle (21 Feb 2009)

I have heard that they want to double the Int branch in size within the next few years. I've personally seen no hook ptes enter the branch with little interest in the trade, and even less military experience than myself (and mine is limited at best).

While I understand there will be growing pains, Direct entry can only work if the system adapts to the type of recruits it will be training. If this can not be done, then perhaps it should just be closed again as GW alluded to in his post.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (21 Feb 2009)

Things are definitly changing very fast in the Int world.  It will be very difficult to accurately predict where the branch is going to go with reference to expansion, training, and intake plans.


----------



## BradCon (21 Feb 2009)

I'm going to keep waiting for the call for now, but I'm  starting to think that I should look into other trades as well.  I interviewed for infantry as well, but my heart wasn't in it. I sure want this Int OP position.
  I also though that some others, (who have been out of country for a while mind you) have been on list for 4 years and 2 and a half years.....I don't know if waiting that long is reasonable, hopefully  I'll have a clearer picture in early April and  perhaps even a present for my 33rd B-Day.

 until next time op:

B


----------



## ltmaverick25 (21 Feb 2009)

Just make sure you do ALL the steps that are required at CFRC ASAP.  The Int trade will get briefly reopened in April after they do their annual assessment to decide how many Ops and Officers they need for the trade, and then make some offers.  So you want to have all your stuff in by then so you can be considered.  Otherwise were both in the same boat, just a waiting game now.

As for the infantry option, I would wait to see what you find out from Int in April first.  Also, if your heart is not in a trade, then its probably best if you identify a different second choice.  You dont want to be miserable in your trade, that is the worst feeling ever.


----------



## BradCon (21 Feb 2009)

"Just make sure you do ALL the steps that are required at CFRC ASAP"

I am pretty sure it's all done,

Application, CFAT, ERC, References,  Medical, Interview, 

am I missing anything.   The recruiter said to call back in April,  perhaps I should call earlier to make sure all the paper work is in order?

B


----------



## ltmaverick25 (22 Feb 2009)

I think thats everything unless you have to do a PT test, I keep forgetting if they still require that or not.


----------



## BradCon (22 Feb 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> I think thats everything unless you have to do a PT test, I keep forgetting if they still require that or not.




Yeah, did that too, thanks.

Actually, my file manager has been pretty good about making sure my application is in good order, unlike some peoples nightmares I've been hearing about.


B


----------



## JBP (10 Mar 2009)

Very interesting thread, some good info.

I very recently spoke with a few Int Op's who were at an annual "education and job" fair here at CFB Edmonton. They were mentioning how the trade is so incredibly short staffed at the moment that it's a great time to join due to the somewhat relaxed recruiting restrictions. I'm previously Infantry and currently Signal Operator (I know...) and they said that's a good mix to come from for Int even though I'm not 5's qualified at the moment. I'm looking to be advance promoted in October so my chain of command tells me, should I apply now or then for Int Op? 

The Sgt. I spoke with told me to talk to an Int Op upstairs in the building I normally work in, to ask some questions and learn a little more about the trade, so I've been digging and getting my hands on everything I can. They seemed to think I don't need to wait at all to push the paperwork through. I'm assuming that's because it takes so long for the OT that I might still get my Cpl's before hand anyway?

So really, apply now? Or later? Based on previous MOC's, not off civvy street and qualified in 2 seperate trades with some trade specific training in the Sig Op world. Good enough to get my ass into Int?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (10 Mar 2009)

Yep, apply now.  Never wait, the military will do enough waiting for everyone, there is no need for you to add to it.

Based on what you posted I see no reason to wait, and in my opinion your chances are very good.

Also remember that the new maning requirements come out on 1 Apr.  Its best to have your application submitted long before then so you can be slated for one of those spots.  Otherwise the trade will close again and you will have to wait for it to re open.


----------



## meni0n (10 Mar 2009)

Joe, you can only apply for next year's competition, so the deadline would be around the end of October and the boards sitting in Feb 10. It's a long wait until then.


----------



## BradCon (10 Mar 2009)

menIOn,

About your post,  when did the competition close?
I am currently waiting to be merit listed, but have been recommended for the position, do you suppose that I'll be waiting that long as well?  

Thanks

BC


----------



## meni0n (10 Mar 2009)

Bravo that's for COTP, basically for people who are in the forces and want to change trades.


----------



## BradCon (10 Mar 2009)

:nod:
Thanks men.


----------



## meni0n (10 Mar 2009)

To add to my last for Joe, the outcap is 8 people out so it`s a big competition to get out of the trade.


----------



## blacktriangle (14 Mar 2009)

I was at one of the recruiting seminars as well. Ask your friendly neighbourhood int ops if you can get your hands on some material (TIOC lessons etc) to give you a basic intro to the trade. They are usually willing to do whatever they can to help you out if you show a serious interest. I think if there is any time to get into the Int branch, it is now. Do whatever you can, and it will be worth it if it's what you truly want.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (14 Mar 2009)

There is some truth to this.  From what I have heard, Int is looking to expand aggresively so now is the time to push through the process.


----------



## BradCon (19 Mar 2009)

When one finishes up at CFMI do they get posted to a unit or to one of the six or so INT Coy's across the country?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (19 Mar 2009)

The 6 Int Coy's are reserve units so it is unlikely you would be posted to one of them.

Its my understanding that 60% of Int positions are in Ottawa.  The rest would be spread out across various bases in support of regular formations.  For example, navy guys can be found at Trinity and Athena out in Halifax and Victoria.  Army guys can be found in Pet, Edmonton, valcartier, kingston ect...

Im hoping to be speaking to someone about this today actually, so I may have more information to post later.


----------



## BradCon (25 Mar 2009)

Thanks for all the information men,  my offer came through!!!

Any advice for the FNG?

A couple of questions arise from this, which are

Does any one have access to the start date for the Int OP occupational training?

How long can I expect to be at CFSMI for?

Should my wife and daughter  move to Kingston? Will they be assisted by the military?

After BMQ is there any break before PRETC?

Thanks in advance

BC


----------



## ltmaverick25 (25 Mar 2009)

Congrats!

Not much advice I can give you that I havent already given you.  Other then to advise you to ensure you are physically fit for BMQ.  Nothing worse then waiting all this time only to discover the body cant handle what awaits.  Otherwise, just make whatever preperations you need to so that your wife and kid can get by while you are away.

As far as the Int Op course goes.  I know that its longer.  The Int O course went from 3 months to 6-7 months, the Int Op course was also extended in time but I dont know exactly how long it is.  

When is your BMQ course?  13 Apr im guessing?

What is PRETC?  I havent heard that term before.

Also, I need the 3rd combat school if you have it!  ;D


----------



## CorporalMajor (25 Mar 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> What is PRETC?  I havent heard that term before.


PRETC is a Reg Force thing, it is where people awaiting their courses stay.  For example there is a PRETC PL in Borden, all the people awaiting their courses stay there, they are taught refresher lessons, do general-duty tasks, et al.


----------



## The_Dictat (26 Mar 2009)

BC,

Reserve QL5A courses are run during the summer at reserve Int Coys over two summers.  Reg Force Int courses are run twice a year usually starting either in May or October.  The courses are over 110 training days. So we are talking here close to five months. So depending on when you complete your BMQ and SQ (if you are going army), you can expect a few months of waiting depending on demand for course positions.  Take for Int O (BIOC), they have a serious backlog right now.

If you are on the PRETC, I strongly suggest that you work with your career manager to get an OJT with the int organisation you are going to be posted to or elsewhere as mush as possible.  It is much better than cleaning the parade square and gives good preparation for the course.

As for your family, it is preferable for your family settle down in the area where you are going to be posted to.  Not worth bringing your family to Kingston for a few months, although it is a great city.

As for first postings, it depends if your army, navy or air force of course.  If your army as I understand it, I would recommend asking to go first with a 1,2 or 5 CMBG posting first or a combat arms unit int cell.  It will give you the right skillset to deal with most future postings you could get in the future, plus you get to do field stuff and an almost guaranteed tour of duty in the near future.

If you have more questions, I am able to answer most of them, within opsec and need to know of course.

Good luck.


----------



## George Wallace (26 Mar 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> What is PRETC?  I havent heard that term before.



You may know it as "PAT Platoon".


----------



## JBoyd (26 Mar 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> What is PRETC?  I havent heard that term before.



I believe it stands for 'Post Recruit Employment & Training Centre'


----------



## ltmaverick25 (26 Mar 2009)

Any idea exactly how far backed up the Int O course is?  Reg force wise, how often is it run and how many guys do they load on it?


----------



## George Wallace (26 Mar 2009)

Twice a year.  Maximum Crse Load is 20.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (26 Mar 2009)

Is there a patter of start dates.  Ie every Sept and Every May?  Or has it been known to fluctuate each year?


----------



## George Wallace (26 Mar 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> Is there a patter of start dates.  Ie every Sept and Every May?  Or has it been known to fluctuate each year?



Goto the http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Downloads/training_calendar-calendrier_d_entrainement-2009.xls

CFSMI

Basic Intelligence Officer PT 1(DL)     1/Sep/09  to  11/Sep/09
Basic Intelligence Officer  PT 2         20/May/09  to  14/Aug/09
Basic Intelligence Officer  PT 2         5/Jan/10  to  8/Apr/10

You can see that the DL portion starts in Sep and there will probably be another one in Jan.  They usually have two courses planned  a year (all crses, 5A, BIOC, 6A, 6B.), but not necessarily conduct them.


----------



## BradCon (27 Mar 2009)

Everyone who's kept this thread so information rich:

a Big Thanks :nod:

The_Dictat, your bit was especially helpful in my explaining to my wife what to maybe expect.
as well as that link you posted George,  the start dates really helps to make educucated guesses about the future.  It's a bit of a shame that the Int Op course is just under the time requirement for relocation assistance,  alas, it's what I signed up to do.

Does anyone you know by chance the likelihood of being posted to Pettawawa if requested?

And did you see the PsyOps Guys on Episode 3 of Battle School?
Can I expect to be on Ex like that?

Cheers


----------



## blacktriangle (28 Mar 2009)

There is supposedly a QL5A course starting soon, and from what I have heard a good bet is for new guys to go to unit int cells to gain experience. Anyone care to speculate what this means for combat int/TIOC courses? Will they still be run, or will the lower level int cells be manned soley by badged int pers?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (28 Mar 2009)

3 INT COY

QL5 Int Op Mod 1	RES	12-Aug-09	04-Sep-09
QL5 Int Op Mod 2	RES	02-Jul-09	             28-Aug-09
QL5 Int Op Mod 1	RES	01-Jan-10	31-Mar-10


----------



## George Wallace (28 Mar 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> 3 INT COY
> 
> QL5 Int Op Mod 1	RES	12-Aug-09	04-Sep-09
> QL5 Int Op Mod 2	RES	02-Jul-09	             28-Aug-09
> QL5 Int Op Mod 1	RES	01-Jan-10	31-Mar-10



Could you verify that Mod 2 and the actual Trg Days?  That looks fairly much like it could be a Mod 3 (Land).


Regular and Reserve Crses are run throughout the year.  Reservists on rare occassions can get on a Reg QL5A Crse, and the Branch encourages it verbally, but the School is a different matter.  Regular Force pers are getting onto Reserve Courses, but the School, again, can be problematic with their file keeping.


----------



## Retired AF Guy (28 Mar 2009)

ark said:
			
		

> This is your Intelligence Bible:
> 
> B-GL-357-001-FP-001
> 
> Chapters 1 & 2 provide a good introduction to what Military Intelligence is all about.



Actually, the bible for the Int Trade is B-GJ-005-200/FP-000 Joint Intelligence Doctrine.
B-GL-357-001/FP-001 is the Army version of B-GJ-005, but with more detail on army stuff such as IPB, ISTAR, HUMINT, etc. 

The disclaimer at the front of B-GL-357-001 notwithstanding, a quick browse didn't turn-up anything that I would view as "classified/sensitive." Much of the info contained has been discussed in other forums, (e.g.) Canadian Forces Journal, Army Lessons Learned reports, Allied forces pubs/doctrine, etc). 

Pubs like this are disseminated so that they can be reviewed and commented on. Its pretty hard to do that if its classified. The same goes for teaching purposes. Its when you start getting into the actual capabilities of equipment and tactics and procedures that you start treading on dangerous grounds.

Info on the Int Op trade can found here: http://www.forces.ca/html/intelligenceoperator_reg_en.aspx

and for Int O trade here: http://www.forces.ca/html/index.aspx?m=0&lang=en&sid=81&sm1=2&sm2=0&content=81&video=low&jId=82


----------



## The_Dictat (28 Mar 2009)

The backlog for the BIOC is HUGE... last number I heard was 120.

BC, Psyops are handled by reservists coming from combat arms units.  Psyops is a PRes capability.  Psyops will work with intelligence in order to get the right feel from the ground in regards to the message that we want to send.  Int with Psyops analyst will assess the results of the campaign in order to make adjustments or to change approach.

George:  Res Int units have to adjust to the new course and its longer schedule.  Some of them were conducting the core course one summer and the land phase the next.  It is possible that 3 Int Coy have to complete a delta before going on.  Although Mod 1 might mean common phase with DL part already done.  And mod 2 means Land phase.  And perhaps the guy making the course calendar might have mixed up stuff.  Who knows...


----------



## ltmaverick25 (28 Mar 2009)

That doesnt sound good.  My CT to reg force as INT O has been approved, they are just waiting for a BIOC spot now.  Looks like it will be a long wait.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (28 Mar 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Could you verify that Mod 2 and the actual Trg Days?  That looks fairly much like it could be a Mod 3 (Land).
> 
> 
> Regular and Reserve Crses are run throughout the year.  Reservists on rare occassions can get on a Reg QL5A Crse, and the Branch encourages it verbally, but the School is a different matter.  Regular Force pers are getting onto Reserve Courses, but the School, again, can be problematic with their file keeping.



Straight from the National Calendar there George, latest one is VER 1 18 MAR 09 downloaded from the DIN thursday night.


----------



## Retired AF Guy (29 Mar 2009)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> There is supposedly a QL5A course starting soon, and from what I have heard a good bet is for new guys to go to unit int cells to gain experience. Anyone care to speculate what this means for combat int/TIOC courses? Will they still be run, or will the lower level int cells be manned soley by badged int pers?



While its best that folks coming off the Int Op course go to the Bde/fighter sqn int cells to gain experience, the reality is that you get sent where ever they need the bodies. 

Not sure what you mean by "lower int cells?" Bde? Bn?


----------



## aesop081 (29 Mar 2009)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> While its best that folks coming off the Int Op course go to the Bde/fighter sqn int cells to gain experience,



I would even add the Int cells at 14 and 19 Wing as its presents some rather unique challenges.


----------



## BradCon (29 Mar 2009)

I read somewhere in the forum that there is a cell in Halifax, that is Army and not reserve,  can anyone confirm this?  I know that It's not my choice, but if there's  glimmer of hope that I may stay in the city where I own my home, I'd like to look at it for awhile and wish.

If this cell exists, what is their function?  I get the feeling that they are not attached to a battle group?  

Can some one correct me?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (29 Mar 2009)

I beleive you are correct.  3 Int Coy is located in Halifax.  They are a reserve Int Company.  However, JTF Atlantic is also located in Halifax and I would imagine that they have Int personel working there.

There are also a number of Naval Int Officers working in the Naval ops center out there.  Not sure if there are any NCM billets for that.

It would be worth putting down as your first choice.  If they do have a spot there, odds are they may give it to you to save costs of moving you ect...


----------



## aesop081 (29 Mar 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> If they do have a spot there, odds are they may give it to you to save costs of moving you ect...



There is no savings involved for the career manager.


----------



## George Wallace (29 Mar 2009)

BravoCharlie said:
			
		

> I read somewhere in the forum that there is a cell in Halifax, that is Army and not reserve,  can anyone confirm this?



Yes there is, and there is also one in Esquimault.  Both are Navy.  Both deal with activities on the open seas, Military and Civilian.


----------



## George Wallace (29 Mar 2009)

The_Dictat said:
			
		

> George:  Res Int units have to adjust to the new course and its longer schedule.  Some of them were conducting the core course one summer and the land phase the next.  It is possible that 3 Int Coy have to complete a delta before going on.  Although Mod 1 might mean common phase with DL part already done.  And mod 2 means Land phase.  And perhaps the guy making the course calendar might have mixed up stuff.  Who knows...





			
				NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Straight from the National Calendar there George, latest one is VER 1 18 MAR 09 downloaded from the DIN thursday night.



I've noticed errors on that site already.  That or someone has justified the continuation of their job and a few brownie points on their next PER by renaming courses and shifting dates to the left or right by three or four days.   ;D


----------



## canadian_infidel (5 Apr 2009)

I have been lurking on this site for some time now and have been following this thread since my COTP application to Int Op, going to and completing the course and being posted.  

Thought I'd join and share some info.

The new course for both NCM and Officer is just shy of six months in length.  

The next round of students (NCM) will start the course in May and the class will be total airforce pers.  The BIOC that is currently on the ground will end in June.  Two courses per year for NCM as well as 2 per year for BIOC.

MOD 1 is DL, MOD 2 is Core, and MOD 3 is environment specific.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.


----------



## Greymatters (8 Apr 2009)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Actually, the bible for the Int Trade is B-GJ-005-200/FP-000 Joint Intelligence Doctrine.
> B-GL-357-001/FP-001 is the Army version of B-GJ-005, but with more detail on army stuff such as IPB, ISTAR, HUMINT, etc.



FYI, HUMINT is a seperate manual (B-GL-357-002)...


----------



## B RAD (8 Apr 2009)

For those with DIN access:

http://cdi.mil.ca/sites/page-eng.asp?page=1168

There is a Power Point with all kinds info on CFMSI course dates.....


----------



## BradCon (8 Apr 2009)

Thanks for keeping  up on this thread.  Seems like a good bunch already,  a few questions to fuel the fire then.

a) Can some one discuss the major differences (if there are any) between an Int Op posted in Ottawa and an Int Op attached to a battle group?

b) I am to finish BMQ on July 17,  which course will I most likely be loaded into after that, and when does it start?

c)Will I have time to read INT field manuals during BMQ?

d) Is BMQ exactly the same for every one or is there trade specific components?

That's all for now.  Thanks in advance

BC


----------



## ltmaverick25 (8 Apr 2009)

BMQ is identical no matter what you do.  

No you wont have time to read anything on your BMQ, nor will you want to.

As far as I understand it, after BMQ your next course would be the INT OP QL5 or whatever they are calling the new version.  As to when it starts, thats one aspect, but the more important one is, where are you in the waiting list.

For example, my CT to INTO has been accepted, but they said I wont be doing a BIOC until 2012 as there are 110 people waiting in line ahead of me.  So ill be a useless paper pusher for 3 years.  I am not sure what the waiting list is like for NCMs, but that is the more important question for you to figure out right now.

Also, hook me up with more combat school!  ;D


----------



## BradCon (8 Apr 2009)

How about question a)
Plus I'll get you CS when I get it.  My guy is usually a day or two back.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (8 Apr 2009)

Unfortunately I dont know the answer to that, its something I wouldnt mind knowing myself.


----------



## Greymatters (8 Apr 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> For example, my CT to INTO has been accepted, but they said I wont be doing a BIOC until 2012 as there are 110 people waiting in line ahead of me.  So ill be a useless paper pusher for 3 years.



With a little imagination you could easily turn those three years into some useful professional development...


----------



## BradCon (8 Apr 2009)

I'm hoping that the paper you push won't be useless, and that you do find it a most excellent wait.
Take the great advice from Greymatters


----------



## ltmaverick25 (8 Apr 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> With a little imagination you could easily turn those three years into some useful professional development...



Ive put in a request to be posted to RMC, where I can work on a PhD War Studies, focusing in the intelligence studies field.  I like to think thats pretty useful for both me and the CF.  Im not holding my breath though.


----------



## blacktriangle (10 Apr 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> BMQ is identical no matter what you do.
> 
> No you wont have time to read anything on your BMQ, nor will you want to.
> 
> ...



The line seems to be getting more backed up...for Army guys I originally heard May and now RUMINT is September.


----------



## Greymatters (10 Apr 2009)

Its amazing how this trade used to always get dumped on and now there's a huge lineup to join...


----------



## The_Dictat (10 Apr 2009)

The main problem is that the school lacks space to run multiple courses.  Because it deals with classified material, they can't use a regular class room.

The QL5A backlog is not that significant.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (10 Apr 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Its amazing how this trade used to always get dumped on and now there's a huge lineup to join...



I think the huge lineup to join stems more from the trade being opened up to people coming in off the street then it does a mass influx of VOTs.  It does seem that, at least in the army the trade is not dumped on as much as it used to be.  In the navy its still dumped on quite a bit.


----------



## George Wallace (10 Apr 2009)

Back to the BMQ answer.  You will also have to do the SQ.


----------



## George Wallace (10 Apr 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Its amazing how this trade used to always get dumped on and now there's a huge lineup to join...



Too many people thinking that the name is glamourous and that they can be James Bond.  Unfortunately, the only thing glamourous is the name.  No one gets a "License to Kill".  No one does espionage.  There is a Law that prevents MI from gathering information on anything remotely domestic.  The real "James Bonds" are the Combat Arms and other 'sensor operators' who gather the information that MI will sift through to come up with their products.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (23 Apr 2009)

My particulars finally came through, I will re aquire my licence to be a James Bond sexy stud muffin as of 8 Jul.  I think im going to send my tuxedo in for exchange.  The last time around the outfit and licence never got me any action!  :-[


----------



## George Wallace (23 Apr 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> My particulars finally came through, I will re aquire my licence to be a James Bond sexy stud muffin as of 8 Jul.  I think im going to send my tuxedo in for exchange.  The last time around the outfit and licence never got me any action!  :-[



So?  You are a Cpl again?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (23 Apr 2009)

No no,

I am an Acting Sub Lieutenent.  Im going INTO remember?  I was joking around because I went INT OP, MARS, now INTO.  But I am still sad that my former sexy Int career did not yield the james bond benefits!!!  My TOS clearly stated that it would...


----------



## Antoine (23 Apr 2009)

Congrats Itmaverick25 ! 

Are you going to start a PhD at RMC this summer too ?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (23 Apr 2009)

Thanks,
The PhD is up in the air right now.  Nothing like that would start until september, but it appears as if I would be on a BIOC in Jan 2011.  If thats the case, not nearly enough time to complete a PhD so its not practical to start.  If it appears that the course will be many years out then I will kick and scream to have my OJT become a PhD at RMC.  If the course does indeed happen sooner, then I will happily take a break from academics and look to be posted to RMC for something like that long after I hit Capt or Lt(N) and have at least one tour under my belt.  So one way or another ive decided that I will do a PhD, but my priority is the BIOC and getting the career progressed.  Oddly enough, ive heard that alot of the people waiting for BIOC right now have been passing their spots up because they liked the lifestyle on OJT and after BMOQ and CAP they are not in a hurry to do another course anytime soon, so I may even be able to squeeze in there sooner.


----------



## George Wallace (23 Apr 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> ...........  Oddly enough, ive heard that alot of the people waiting for BIOC right now have been passing their spots up because they liked the lifestyle on OJT and after BMOQ and CAP they are not in a hurry to do another course anytime soon, so I may even be able to squeeze in there sooner.




Ah!  The "Phony INT OP/INT O" who has managed to get into a Trade, but never qualified.  Looks good on a CV/Resume until some diligent HR person checks knowledgeable references.    ;D


----------



## Greymatters (23 Apr 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ah!  The "Phony INT OP/INT O" who has managed to get into a Trade, but never qualified.  Looks good on a CV/Resume until some diligent HR person checks knowledgeable references.    ;D



Is that actually a common problem?  Wouldn't a simple check of qualification sheets/certificates/docs do the same thing?


----------



## George Wallace (23 Apr 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Is that actually a common problem?  Wouldn't a simple check of qualification sheets/certificates/docs do the same thing?



Actually, it in all likelihood is.  A person joins a Unit X (Organization X) that is X Trade (Occupation).  They remain in said Unit/Organization for a couple of years.......in the Case of the CF, doing a BMQ and perhaps a SQ.  They wear the uniform of the organization.  They decide that they want a high paying or prestigious job at some other organization..........Say Border Services or Corel Corp or whatever.  On their CV/Resume they state that they were a member of Unit X for two years.  They conveniently omit the fact that they never attained the Qualification of Trade X.  References are checked.  Yes they did belong to Unit X.  The question now arises, "DID THE HR PERSON HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO INQUIRE IF THE APPLICANT HAD ATTAINED THE QUALIFICATION OF TRADE X?" or were they satisfied with the honest, but inaccurate, fact that the applicant was a member of Unit X?  This is the act of lying through omission.  These "Phonies" are everywhere and in every occupation.......usually identified by the amount of time they spend around the water cooler or having a smoke break...... ;D

Seriously though, they are everywhere.  You will even find one or two threads here on Army.ca dedicated to one or two of them, who the MSN have a propensity of using as talking heads ....... I mean Military Experts.   >


----------



## Greymatters (23 Apr 2009)

Ah, I see what you mean, I was thinking more in terms of employment applications for positions rather 'subject matter experts'...


----------



## ltmaverick25 (24 Apr 2009)

Just to clarify, when I said some people were passing up spots for BIOC, this was not a permanent thing, rather just a means of extending their OJT by another 4 months or so.  I wasnt talking about guys trying to shirk the system by any means.


----------



## George Wallace (24 Apr 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> Just to clarify, when I said some people were passing up spots for BIOC, this was not a permanent thing, rather just a means of extending their OJT by another 4 months or so.  I wasnt talking about guys trying to shirk the system by any means.



Doesn't make sense to me.  Putting off a Crse for 4 months to continue OJT, when their next opportunity for a Crse may now become another eight months after that.  This could add up to a couple of years.  Is their OJT that valuable?   Is it even relevant?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (24 Apr 2009)

Dont ask me, Im trying to get on a BIOC as soon as possible, not the opposite.  I have no idea why some would want to avoid it.  Seems rediculous to me, but, if it lets me do my course sooner, then I will find a way to live with it  ;D


----------



## john10 (24 Apr 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Actually, it in all likelihood is.  A person joins a Unit X (Organization X) that is X Trade (Occupation).  They remain in said Unit/Organization for a couple of years.......in the Case of the CF, doing a BMQ and perhaps a SQ.  They wear the uniform of the organization.  They decide that they want a high paying or prestigious job at some other organization..........Say Border Services or Corel Corp or whatever.  On their CV/Resume they state that they were a member of Unit X for two years.  They conveniently omit the fact that they never attained the Qualification of Trade X.  References are checked.  Yes they did belong to Unit X.  The question now arises, "DID THE HR PERSON HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO INQUIRE IF THE APPLICANT HAD ATTAINED THE QUALIFICATION OF TRADE X?" or were they satisfied with the honest, but inaccurate, fact that the applicant was a member of Unit X?  This is the act of lying through omission.  These "Phonies" are everywhere and in every occupation.......usually identified by the amount of time they spend around the water cooler or having a smoke break...... ;D
> 
> Seriously though, they are everywhere.  You will even find one or two threads here on Army.ca dedicated to one or two of them, who the MSN have a propensity of using as talking heads ....... I mean Military Experts.   >


 This is a good point. So what would be appropriate to put in your CV until you're qualified? "Unqualified/untrained Int OP" ? Something like that?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (24 Apr 2009)

I think you are missing the point George is trying to make.  Its not about what you put on your resume when applying to a civilian job that matters.  Put whatever you think helps you get the job...

George was complaining that there are some in the Int reserve that join the Int branch because it looks good on a resume.  Whether they get trained and qualified or not doesnt really matter, because these guys dont parade on a normal basis, nor do they have any intention of doing so.  They are just there because "it looks good".

If you are not one of those people then dont worry about any of this.  Just do your job and make a contribution to your unit.  If you do that, nobody is going to care what is on your resume.


----------



## Greymatters (24 Apr 2009)

Im noticing that many people are referring to CV's and resumes as if they are the same thing, when they are actually two different things.

I.E.
_http://careerplanning.about.com/od/resumewriting/g/def_vitae.htm
Definition: A curriculum vitae is a written description of your work experience, educational background, and skills. Also called a CV, or simply a vitae, it is more detailed than a resume and is commonly used by those looking for work outside the U.S. and Australia. A curriculum vitae is also used by someone looking for an academic job, i.e. in a college or university._

In practical use, a resume is orientated towards your prospective employer and lists your education, qualifications, work experience, and transferable skills that apply to that position.  A CV generally does not focus on a specific employer, focuses less on experience and transferable skills, but more on what products, presentations, appearances, interviews, papers, and books you have developed/published/participated in.   

As for how to put Int trade experience into a CV or resume:
In a resume I would expect to see a reference to the unit or employer under 'work experience/work history', and a mention of the qualification(s) achieved under 'education' or 'qualifications'.  
In a CV, I wouldnt expect it to be mentioned at all, unless you had written an article or book on the subject.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (24 Apr 2009)

More simply put, a CV is an academic summary of your scholarship.  It is a resume of your published work and academic jobs.  No other jobs would be listed there.  As mentioned above, they are used by the academic community.  People who require a CV will also attach a resume to their application listing all of the other employment and experience they have as per the above post.


----------



## john10 (25 Apr 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> I think you are missing the point George is trying to make.  Its not about what you put on your resume when applying to a civilian job that matters.  Put whatever you think helps you get the job...
> 
> George was complaining that there are some in the Int reserve that join the Int branch because it looks good on a resume.  Whether they get trained and qualified or not doesnt really matter, because these guys dont parade on a normal basis, nor do they have any intention of doing so.  They are just there because "it looks good".
> 
> If you are not one of those people then dont worry about any of this.  Just do your job and make a contribution to your unit.  If you do that, nobody is going to care what is on your resume.


 No, I did not miss his point.

He was making a point about presenting your role in the Canadian Forces with utmost fortrightness (a point I've seen him make before), and I was wondering how you should do that if you're not yet qualified in your trade.


----------



## George Wallace (25 Apr 2009)

john10 said:
			
		

> No, I did not miss his point.
> 
> He was making a point about presenting your role in the Canadian Forces with utmost fortrightness (a point I've seen him make before), and I was wondering how you should do that if you're not yet qualified in your trade.



OK.  Say I tried to become a Pilot, but never got the qualifications.  Would it be proper to say I was a Pilot, just because I did some of the Training?  No.


----------



## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

I talked to my recruit officer and he said it would be difficult to get into, would that be because of high demand?

I'm planning on Artillery if Int Ops doesn't work out.


----------



## futuresapper (7 Jul 2009)

If you haven't already, you should check out forces.ca.  It says that Int Op is difficult to get into without prior military experiance or know how.  I'm sure others can explain it better and get into detail. I'm just going by forces.ca. Hope that may help a little.

Edit: I was pretty vague so here's what I found from forces.ca


QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS
INT OPs must be able to maintain and operate Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence (C4I) Systems. They must have a superior ability to collect, evaluate, analyse and integrate information and intelligence. They must be inquisitive, accurate, possess a superior memory for detail and be objective when processing intelligence. INT OPs must be able to work with a minimum of supervision, always exercising sound judgement, initiative and resourcefulness. They must possess superior oral and written communication skills.

INT OPs must have fundamental knowledge of military intelligence, gained through formal courses and professional development.

Entry Plans: The Intelligence Operator occupation is usually available through Occupation Transfer. Preferred candidates should have at least a high school diploma or equivalent. Knowledge of other languages, multi-cultural experience and operational experience are considered an asset.

Other applicants to be considered are:

Civilian personnel who have formerly served in the CF

Component Transfer applicants who are re-enrolling or transferring from the Reserve


----------



## ltmaverick25 (7 Jul 2009)

Becoming an intelligence operator is a difficult process for several reasons.  The intelligence branch is relatively small compared to other military occupations therefore the amount of positions available is limited.  Also, intelligence used to be closed off to civilians coming in off the street.  Only existing members of the CF were able to apply.  That had changed recently in order to address needs of a quickly growing branch; however, it has also made clear the steep learning curb for those with no prior military exposure.  It can be pretty tough to stand around a map looking at troop dispositions, while trying to offer thoughtful assessments when candidates have no former military service or training.  For all those reasons, and others I forgot to mention, intelligence is a difficult trade to get into coming in off the street.

As far as I am aware, reserve units are still pretty eager to recruit able candidates. It is often easier to join through the reserves, get qualified, and get some experience under your belt and then component transfer to the reg force.  In that case your competition would shrink quite a bit, given that you would already be a qualified Int Op.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Otis (7 Jul 2009)

LtM: Do you have a reference for Direct Entry of Int Op?

I'm not questioning your information, I'm just wondering where you found it because all I can find is evidence of a PLANNED Int Op - Direct Entry Trial, I can't find any messages inplementing it (unlike the AES Op - DE Trial, which is in full effect)

According to the DPM Pol Intranet site, Int Op is still not open to DE. According to the eRHB (electronic Recruiters Handbook) on the recruiting site, there is a planned DE trial for Int Op, but no details yet (education requirements, TOS etc)

Please advise.


----------



## The_Dictat (7 Jul 2009)

I haven't heard of the DE Int Op trial for a while.  But I know that there is no more direct entry Int Officer positions for the reg force this year.  They only take up to 6 candidates per year and they usually have masters in poli sci or inter'l relations.

Yes, Reserve Units do recruit from the street as it is difficult to meet the growth from trade transfers.  The time it takes for a recruit to get trained to Int Op (up to 3 years) compensates from the lack of experience as they get OJT and other military training.  It's not perfect but meets the needs.

Intel Girl:  If you want to join Intelligence, you can as a reservist Int Op then transfer later on to reg force.  You will have to contact your local Reserve Int Company to check for availability of positions.  I know that some of them are close to full manning.

Good luck


----------



## George Wallace (7 Jul 2009)

The_Dictat said:
			
		

> Yes, Reserve Units do recruit from the street as it is difficult to meet the growth from trade transfers.  The time it takes for a recruit to get trained to Int Op (up to 3 years) compensates from the lack of experience as they get OJT and other military training.  It's not perfect but meets the needs.



Yes, but they may be stopping.  Sorry but I disagree with you statement.  Three years training as an Int Op does not give anyone the experience that one learns in the Cbt Arms about how the Army operates.  An Int Op who has no idea of the capabilities of the troops that they deal with, really can pose a problem.  Don't ever think that BMQ and SQ will give anyone experience or "Field Time".


----------



## ltmaverick25 (7 Jul 2009)

Otis said:
			
		

> LtM: Do you have a reference for Direct Entry of Int Op?
> 
> I'm not questioning your information, I'm just wondering where you found it because all I can find is evidence of a PLANNED Int Op - Direct Entry Trial, I can't find any messages inplementing it (unlike the AES Op - DE Trial, which is in full effect)
> 
> ...



Unfortunately I cant provide any reference to that information.  The reason I say that Int Op is available for direct entry is because of information I have read on these forums.  I know of at least one poster here who joined as an Int Op off the street reg force.  I beleive he is on his BMQ now.

Edited to add:  The person I am refering to has been posting in this thread.  His name is BravoCharlie.


----------



## mariomike (7 Jul 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> The reason I say that Int Op is available for direct entry is because of information I have read on these forums.  I know of at least one poster here who joined as an Int Op off the street reg force.  I beleive he is on his BMQ now.
> Edited to add:  The person I am refering to has been posting in this thread.  His name is BravoCharlie.



I don't know his background, but judging by the age on his profile, I would bet he has a significant amount of relevant education and experience.


----------



## meni0n (7 Jul 2009)

I saw a couple of direct entry messages for int op sent to St-Jean for BMQ training a while ago.


----------



## The_Dictat (7 Jul 2009)

As said before, a trial was done a while back.  They have to wait and see how these candidates' careers evolves to evaluate wether it was a good idea or not to do so.  

Right now, things are murky.  But I do know that the Int Branch will consider people with previous military experience for re-enrolment. As for other type of DE Int Op, do not hold your breath.  When the branch is ready for more reg DE intake, the CFRCs will know.  

For now and as always, going the Reserve Int op route is the fastest way to get into reg f int op.


----------



## BradCon (25 Jul 2009)

So I survived St Jean, and got through BMQ with only a few BAD days.

As for off the street Int OPs ( i will be one)  My resume did help me a fair bit, I'm sure,  with  a lot of acting experience, coordinating, first aid, as well as the near completion of a psych degree.

I'm at Borden on Pretc waiting for courses currently and will do some driving and SQ before october is done.  After that...who knows.  I've heard that there is a distance course  all off the street Int Ops must complete before they will be course loaded,  but lord knows when the course will be. 

I know one course runs Sept- March,  but nothing else with regard to that.

Not to discourage you in your quest for Int Op qualification, but there are very few of us at borden,   which may be an indicator that there are few spots open.

Try for it any way.  read up on the int trade if you can, and regurgitate it in your interview...good luck


BC


----------



## housenuts (25 Jul 2009)

what is the process for a reserve infantry mcpl with a university degree to transfer to reserve int officer? i can see this taking a while, but is something i'm considering.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (25 Jul 2009)

You would have to approach your local intelligence unit recruiting staff and let them know you want to join as an INT officer.  

Assuming that the unit wants to endorse your candidacy as an officer, you would be set up with a PSO (personel selection officer interview).   The PSO will assess your ability to lead and your capacity to do the INT job in an officers position.  At that point, the reserve unit you are joining may elect to hold a board.  If they do, you would go up in front of a handful of Captains and the CO.  Each of them will have an assessment sheet and score you.  After you are done, they will discuss and amalgamate the final result.  If it is favorable,  your transfer would proceed.

Then you run into all the other problems.  For example your existing unit taking forever to action your requests ect....

It took me 2 years to get my transfer done, and that was NCM to NCM.  It will be a very long and frustrating ordeal to say the least.

One of the things you have to look out for is the following:  They may ask you to transfer over to INT as an NCM, and then they would start the commissioning process afterwards.  If they take this route with you, I highly recomend you reject that course of action.  Tell them you want to transfer as an officer or no dice.  It will make your transfer take longer, but at least that way you know you are going through the required process.  Otherwise, you could get transfered over, and they will just sit on your file and never move on it.

Right now, reserve intelligence units are VERY fickle with who they commission.  I know alot of people, some of them master corporals, who are already INT Ops who are trying to commission and its just not happening.  They arent being rejected mind you, they are just being ignored.  If you want more detailed information send me a PM and I can help you out more.  If you are in the Toronto region I can get you in touch with the people you will need to talk to.


----------



## winnipegoo7 (26 Jul 2009)

Hello.  I was wondering if there was any INT Ops in Halifax that would like to talk about the job.  I am interested in remustering to the trade.  I would be willing to trade coffee or a beer for your time. If anyone is interested in talking to me please send me a PM. Thanks


----------



## George Wallace (26 Jul 2009)

housenuts said:
			
		

> What is the process for a Reserve Infantry MCpl with a  university degree to transfer to Reserve Int officer?  I can see this taking a while, but is something I'm considering.



You will have to go to the Unit, as ltmaverick25 said, and see what they say.  Reserve Int units are not the same as other Reserve units.  Having a degree could mean nothing.  It would mean absolutely nothing in a Reserve Int unit that has Ptes with PhDs and Cpls and MCpls with Masters.  They would only ask you: "What makes you so special?"  Now, you are what they are looking for, as an NCM, whom they could train as a QL5A INT OP, promote to MCpl and perhaps send on Deployment/Tasking and have a qualified instructor to continue the cycle of producing INT Ops.  What they would look for in an officer, would be one with a Post Secondary Degree and some "Professional Standing", such as a senior managerial or teaching position on Civvie Street.  A Inf MCpl with a BA is sort of the norm for CT to INT OP.  They are quite often looking for much more in the criteria they want for a INT O.


----------



## George Wallace (28 Jul 2009)

I did forget something.  If you can not get a Lvl III Clearance, you will not become an Int Op or an Int O.  You would be unemployable, so you will not be accepted to Training.


----------



## Sirrad (15 Aug 2009)

I have just been accepted into the Int Op Trade.  A few quick questions, cause you guys seem to have the answers.

1.  What sort of course delay am I looking at, ie 6 months or 2 years before course loading?
2.  I have 12 years in Reg and Res Navy, am I required to complete Soldier Qualification for this trade?
3.  Finally what time line is the revamped course?  

Thank you


----------



## ltmaverick25 (15 Aug 2009)

If you are Int Op army you will definitely need the SQ.  I am not sure about the other elements.  I know officers of all elements have to take the CAP, so its likely the NCMs would all have to do SQ.  The new Int Op course is 6 months long.  As for delay in course loadings, I dont have the info for NCM's with me right now but I should be able to find out on Monday.  For new officers coming into the trade, they are loading into 2012 right now.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (19 Aug 2009)

Just an update:

I spoke with an Air Force Int Op that just recently finished his QL5 course.  He said he only had to wait a couple of months for a course.  I dont know if this will be the same for everyone else, but, he seemed to go through the system pretty quickly.  Hope this helps.


----------



## Greymatters (20 Aug 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> If you are Int Op army you will definitely need the SQ.  I am not sure about the other elements.  I know officers of all elements have to take the CAP, so its likely the NCMs would all have to do SQ.  The new Int Op course is 6 months long.  As for delay in course loadings, I dont have the info for NCM's with me right now but I should be able to find out on Monday.  For new officers coming into the trade, they are loading into 2012 right now.



6 months?  Seriously?


----------



## ltmaverick25 (20 Aug 2009)

Thats what the Cpl in my office told me today about the course he was just on.  The BIOC is also currently 6 months.  However, I heard talk that they were looking at scaling the course back to 4 months because CFSMI did not have the resorces or manpower to run more then one 6month BIOC per year and right now there is a large backlog of INTO's waiting for training.

I dont know if that applies to the QL5 or not though.

From what I gathered, alot of content from 6a was being pushed down to the 5s level.


----------



## Blackthorne (25 Aug 2009)

How physical is the Qualification course (QL5A if I read correctly)? I am Inf now and blew out my left knee on DP1 (I have Res Army BMQ and SQ only) and am thinking of remustering rather than pulling poll. 

My knee won't take Inf anymore, but I don't want to blow more resources (mine and the Military's) chasing something thats not going to happen. I believe my civie work experience and education would lend themselves well to the trade.


----------



## Robodad (25 Aug 2009)

Here's the DIN link to the Military Intelligence School (CFSMI)

http://kingston.mil.ca/cfsmi%2Dermfc/contact_e.asp


----------



## The_Dictat (25 Aug 2009)

Other than regular PT, the QL5A is only hard on your brain..... and your b*tt... for sitting during long days of classes.


----------



## ltmaverick25 (25 Aug 2009)

Blackthorne said:
			
		

> How physical is the Qualification course (QL5A if I read correctly)? I am Inf now and blew out my left knee on DP1 (I have Res Army BMQ and SQ only) and am thinking of remustering rather than pulling poll.
> 
> My knee won't take Inf anymore, but I don't want to blow more resources (mine and the Military's) chasing something thats not going to happen. I believe my civie work experience and education would lend themselves well to the trade.



That really depends on who your staff is.  The last time I taught a QL5a we did morning runs for a while in Kingston.  Then, about half way through our course WO was ordered to stop the runs because the candidates were complaining that they were having a hard time absorbing the information afterwards or something like that.  So the runs stopped...

On other courses, no running at all.  Just classroom stuff and thats it.  I know they were talking about adding a field ex component to the 5s where you actually go to the field instead of just setting up tents on the backlawn of the EW building, but I dont know if thats been followed through on or not.

But to sum it up for you, Int is not a physical trade at all.  Some may chose to disagree with me, or take exception to my comment, but I beleive it to be true.  

What you really need to keep in mind is the following...

You will still have to pass an express test every year, and you will still have to pass the BFT every year.  If you can do that, then give Int a go.  I know of a very small few, who deployed, and were humping it with the Cbt Arms, and thus had a very physical experience.  But in most cases it hasnt been like that.  But you have to be ready just in case.

But obviously, you are the only one who knows what your knee can handle.

Good luck.


----------



## Greymatters (26 Aug 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> But to sum it up for you, Int is not a physical trade at all.  Some may chose to disagree with me, or take exception to my comment, but I beleive it to be true.
> 
> What you really need to keep in mind is the following...
> 
> ...





Not to disagree but the level of physical activity required to do an Int Op job is highly dependent on what element you work in and what position you are working at. 

At some units you may be sitting driving a desk for 8-10 hours per day with group physical activities being optional.  You'll be expected to do enough PT to pass annual tests, but nothing arduous.  On the other end, you can end up at a unit that spends a lot of time in the field, and you might be expected to do a lot of physical activity.

Regardless of where you end up, three important things should be kept in mind .
1. About half of the trade keeps themselves in good shape, while the other half tends to build up spare tires.  Which side do you want to be on?
2. It doesnt matter if you are limited by a physical disability, what matters is that you dont use it as an excuse to not do any physical activity. 
3. A lot of Int work is dependent on the impressions you make on the audience the product is being delivered to; looking fit, even if your activites are limited, makes a big difference in how quickly you get accepted and gain respect of both your peers and your customers.


----------



## Blackthorne (26 Aug 2009)

Robodad said:
			
		

> Here's the DIN link to the Military Intelligence School (CFSMI)
> 
> http://kingston.mil.ca/cfsmi%2Dermfc/contact_e.asp



Dead link for me....



			
				Greymatters said:
			
		

> Not to disagree but the level of physical activity required to do an Int Op job is highly dependent on what element you work in and what position you are working at.
> 
> Regardless of where you end up, three important things should be kept in mind .
> 1. About half of the trade keeps themselves in good shape, while the other half tends to build up spare tires.  Which side do you want to be on?
> ...



I have no issue with being in shape. CrossFit is my friend  I am sure my knee will take a BFT a year, and the rucks needed to maintain that, I was just wondering if the job would hand me more than that and I might let someone down.

Seems like a good choice even with the wait that seems the norm (per this thread).

Thanks everyone for the input. Greatly appreciated!


----------



## ltmaverick25 (26 Aug 2009)

Are you planning on joining Int in the reserves or the reg force?  As far as I am aware the reserve QL5 does not suffer from any delay.  If you join, your chances are extremely high that you will be taking the Int Op course on weekends throughout the year, and then the final mod during the summer.


----------



## Blackthorne (27 Aug 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> Are you planning on joining Int in the reserves or the reg force?  As far as I am aware the reserve QL5 does not suffer from any delay.  If you join, your chances are extremely high that you will be taking the Int Op course on weekends throughout the year, and then the final mod during the summer.



I was hoping to hook up with 2 Int Coy iin Toronto as Res. 

That's great news, so I can now just hope the transfer goes OK. If, of course, they are hiring. So complicated sometimes.

I am really glad I am older. Dealing with the Army at age 19 must just drive them nuts


----------



## ltmaverick25 (27 Aug 2009)

They are still hiring.  Get in touch with Cpl Moeller ASAP to get the ball started.  If all goes well you should make it into the unit in time to begin their next QL5 weekend training serial.  That will take place throughout the year.  Then during the summer you will be away for a couple of months finishing up the final MOD.


----------



## Blackthorne (28 Aug 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> They are still hiring.  Get in touch with Cpl Moeller ASAP to get the ball started.  If all goes well you should make it into the unit in time to begin their next QL5 weekend training serial.  That will take place throughout the year.  Then during the summer you will be away for a couple of months finishing up the final MOD.



Thanks fro the intel. I called but everyone is out till Stand To. I'll keep calling.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Aug 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> They are still hiring.  Get in touch with Cpl Moeller ASAP to get the ball started.  If all goes well you should make it into the unit in time to begin their next QL5 weekend training serial.  That will take place throughout the year.  Then during the summer you will be away for a couple of months finishing up the final MOD.



Beadwindow 5, over!


----------



## Greymatters (28 Aug 2009)

Blackthorne said:
			
		

> Thanks fro the intel. I called but everyone is out till Stand To. I'll keep calling.



FYI, you might want to note that in Canada we say 'Int'; 'Intel' is a US term...


----------



## Arthur.K.ogichidaa (3 Sep 2009)

Hello, I'm currently on the merit list for reg force Int Op as of a few days ago and heard there were 2 or 3 openings left. My file manager mentioned it was going to be nationally selected. Do all nationally selected trades go to a merit list board, and if so when is the next one for Int Op?


----------



## Otis (20 Sep 2009)

All successful applications go to Merit Listing ... Natioanlly selected ones are SELECTED nationally (vice locally) ... there is no set timing ... when they need people into the training system for a given trade, they select for that trade.

Otis


----------



## Arthur.K.ogichidaa (20 Sep 2009)

Otis said:
			
		

> All successful applications go to Merit Listing ... Natioanlly selected ones are SELECTED nationally (vice locally) ... there is no set timing ... when they need people into the training system for a given trade, they select for that trade.
> 
> Otis



Thanks for the information. I talked with the File Manager at the CFRC and he explained that. I suppose I lucked out on the timing, I am getting sworn in 01/10/2009 and look forward to BMQ.


----------



## Trackman (4 Oct 2009)

Hey guys, hopefully you guys can help me and give me some suggestions.  I applied for the reserves as infantry GGFG about a month ago, but after talking to a neighbor of mine who was in CSOR .  I was recommended to take a different path.  I started looking around and although at first I didn't even consider INT OP, but now it's what I am trying very hard to get into.  I just recently got a hold of the Master Corporal at 2nd Intelligence Platoon here in Ottawa and I was told that I will have to wait until the hiring is no longer frozen.  They've been frozen since May and they have no idea when they will be open again, but when they do open I will get an email.  The thing is, the recruiting Corporal at the office told me he would close my profile in 2 months since I told him after writing my aptitude test that I would like to switch trades, and on top of that GGFG and the Camerons are now closed in recruiting.  These are the only 2 infantry units in Ottawa to apply for.  I want to join as an INT OP more than anything after doing all the research I've been doing and reading around these boards, but it sounds like my chances of getting into the unit with no previous experience and only 2 years of university under my belt, my chances are slim.  I would rather not wait and lose a spot in the Infantry unit only to found out later that I also cannot get into the Intelligence Platoon.  You guys have mentioned a lot of guys that have "come off the street" with Poli. Sci. Masters and Phds and previous Intelligence experience and so on, but is it common, or even likely for a Computer Science/Minor Business Admin 3rd year student to get in without any previous experience?  What steps would you guys take if you were in my position?  I understand there is a component transfer as well but I feel I would competent enough for the job without previous military trade training.  Although, I'm not the one who decides that so my opinion doesn't matter.


----------



## George Wallace (4 Oct 2009)

Trackman

Your indecisiveness has now cost you a job.  You had an opportunity to be in a Reserve unit and starting BMQ on the 16th.  You are now caught holding the bag, perhaps having your file closed at the CFRC because you couldn't follow some sound advice to join a Cbt Arms unit and gain some valuable knowledge and experience in the CF.  

If you want your desires to become an INT Op in the Reserves to ever come to fruition, you had better get serious and check out the Régiment de Hull, or 30th Field, RCA.  There are other Reserve Units in Ottawa that you could try, but none would give you the experience these two, or the two Infantry Regiments that are now closed, could.   You could be waiting a long time before you get into 2 Int Platoon.  You might as well get some CF Training under your belt as you wait.  Hopefully your indecision has not prevented you from doing that altogether.

If you don't get serious on joining a Reserve Unit soon, you will not be enrolled before the New Year, and start BMQ before Feb, or as late as Sept/Oct 2010.  You will find that Reserve Units are facing some serious time restrictions for 2010.  You may have already missed the last bus.


----------



## Trackman (4 Oct 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Trackman
> 
> Your indecisiveness has now cost you a job.  You had an opportunity to be in a Reserve unit and starting BMQ on the 16th.  You are now caught holding the bag, perhaps having your file closed at the CFRC because you couldn't follow some sound advice to join a Cbt Arms unit and gain some valuable knowledge and experience in the CF.
> 
> ...



            You are very right sir.  I am being very indecisive at the moment and opportunities are just passing right under my nose.  But I really want to make sure I only have to make one choice and be happy with what I'm doing.  I'm planning on staying with the military hopefully for my whole career and I want to take the right first step.  But like you said I could get the experience for now and decide later, which is looking more like the direction I am going to take.  

          Let's say after I finish my trade training, and I decide to apply for a transfer over to INT, would an applicant with trades training as a Signal Operator have an advantage over myself being an Infantry applicant?(This question isn't res. or reg. force restricted, so an answer for either scenario helps.)  Assuming his reputation and quality of service would be the same as my own in our corresponding trades.  I am already convinced that Communications Research Operator would have an advantage since they should have a level of security clearance already so I won't bother asking.  But if I'm mistaken I wouldn't mind being corrected.


----------



## George Wallace (4 Oct 2009)

The Security Clearance in your question is a Red Herring.  I would hazard a guess, that the majority of OTs to the INT Trade have come from the Cbt Arms of the three Elements, more than from other Trades.  

However, to be an INT Op, you must be able to get the required Clearance, or you are unemployable.


----------



## The_Dictat (5 Oct 2009)

In my experience, it does not matter much from which army trade you are from to be a good Int Op.  All you need is the right mind to do the job.  Any mil experience is valuable for the Int Trade. Sigs is good for Int Res units because the soldier that remusters has the bonus of having at least a secret security clearance and he understands the setup of headquarters and so on.  

Comms Research for Res is only in Kingston at 772 Res EW Sqn , unless you want to drive there everytime... Oh and they do hire Int Ops... if there are any positions left.

That's one avenue for you.


----------



## Trackman (6 Oct 2009)

Hey,

    Just wanted to say thanks to Dictat but to George Wallace especially.  You're the second person to give me the same advice and the way you said it gave me a little nudge to act quickly and I thank you.  I'm also afraid I missed the last BMQ of the year seeing as how my I just booked my interview and medical is next week on the 14th.  But regardless I'm glad to say I'm back in the process.  And as far as my interest in INT goes, this thread along with a couple others was a great read and the community answered a lot of my questions, but now I guess I'll let the rest of the questions I have answer themselves along this long military trip I'll be taking.  Thanks again.   but to everybody in the thread this time.


----------



## Rheostatic (9 Oct 2009)

The_Dictat said:
			
		

> Comms Research for Res is only in Kingston at 772 Res EW Sqn


 Not true. 763 Comms Regt in Ottawa is also hiring Comms Research operators, in case you're interested in signals intelligence.


----------



## The_Dictat (13 Oct 2009)

763 Comms Regt too?... Wow, I did not not know that...surprisingly...  Good to know. Thanks


----------



## Braver.Stronger.Smarter. (14 Oct 2009)

Does anyone know what the status is on the direct entry Int Op trial? Is the trial still going on? I got the impression that it was temporarily shut down, but have been unable to find any information on if it was starting again any time in the future. I'd hate to be sitting here thinking that the trade was closed for direct entry only to find out that I missed the deadline.

A few of you on this thread seem fairly knowledgeable about the trade, perhaps you know?

Jules


----------



## Braver.Stronger.Smarter. (22 Oct 2009)

I'm assuming that my previous post wasn't answered because nobody knew, so, if anyone else is interested, I just talked to an online recruiter who told me that they are still recruiting civilians for the trade and there are still spots available.

Seems a bit odd to me, I assumed that even if they were still recruiting civilians that any spots would be filled up and candidates would be waiting until the new numbers came out in April. Ah well, what do I know? That's why they're the recruiters and I'm just joining.  ;D


----------



## George Wallace (23 Oct 2009)

Sitting in a CFRC at this very moment and INT OP is not open to Unskilled or Semi-Skilled applicants.  In fact it is open to skilled applicants "for consideration" on a "Case-by-Case Basis".


----------



## Braver.Stronger.Smarter. (23 Oct 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sitting in a CFRC at this very moment and INT OP is not open to Unskilled or Semi-Skilled applicants.  In fact it is open to skilled applicants "for consideration" on a "Case-by-Case Basis".



Thanks, George. That's the impression that I was under to begin with and I was a little surprised when the recruiter told me that it was still open. I'm not really sure how he made the mistake though, I specified twice that I was referring to a civilian with no military experience applying for the trade and he told me that the numbers he had stated that there were still spots open. 
Guess I'm not really missing out on anything if it was never an option in the first place, back to my other trade choice I go!  ;D


----------



## Dean22 (3 Nov 2009)

Talked to a recruiter today and he told me that Intelligence operator is  open for civvy's but the chance of being hired vs. someone with military experience is low.

Also, as of October 31st two Intelligence Operator positions opened up for the Air Force and I believe those are the only two openings right now. They could already be filled though.


----------



## Braver.Stronger.Smarter. (3 Nov 2009)

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Talked to a recruiter today and he told me that Intelligence operator is  open for civvy's



Hmmm, maybe you talked to the same guy I talked to  ;D
Would you mind PM'ing me his name? I'm curious now...


----------



## George Wallace (3 Nov 2009)

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Talked to a recruiter today and he told me that Intelligence operator is  open for civvy's but the chance of being hired vs. someone with military experience is low.
> 
> Also, as of October 31st two Intelligence Operator positions opened up for the Air Force and I believe those are the only two openings right now. They could already be filled though.




When they are open to civilians, they are looking for "SKILLED" personnel.  That means that they are looking for "former" CF INT Ops who may want to rejoin the CF.


----------



## Dean22 (3 Nov 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> When they are open to civilians, they are looking for "SKILLED" personnel.  That means that they are looking for "former" CF INT Ops who may want to rejoin the CF.



That's not what I was told, but hey you could be right and the recruiter could be wrong.


----------



## George Wallace (3 Nov 2009)

Perhaps you didn't correctly interpret the words that the Recruiter was saying, prefering to hear only what you wanted to hear.  It is a common problem.


----------



## Dean22 (3 Nov 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Perhaps you didn't correctly interpret the words that the Recruiter was saying, prefering to hear only what you wanted to hear.  It is a common problem.



No, I was told he could transfer my file over to Int Op if I wanted but I told him I was just inquiring. I am positive I am not in the "Skilled" category either.


----------

