# Navy League to Navy Cadets



## Harley Sailor (3 Dec 2008)

I have a question I can not find the answer to.

  My Daughter did 4 years in Navy League and then moved up to Naval Cadets.  In her third year she could have moved up to cadets but was convinced that it was in her best interest to do her last year in Navy League so she could become a CPO1. She was told that it would not hurt her because as a chief in Navy League she could join cadets and be able to write her test for her Able Seamens right away. This would have put her back with the people who moved up the year before.  Well she did stay and was pormoted to CPO1.  When she got to naval cadets she was told that she would not be advanced.  We have been trying to find out why not and have not been told anything.  Last week we were told that the rules have been changed and that is why she could not be advanced.

My questions are "Was she told the truth last year about staying back not hurting her?  When did they change the rules?  Who can I contact other then her local unit, to find out what can be done about her lost year?"

Thank you in advance


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## startbutton (3 Dec 2008)

Our kids  were in Navy League,  My son will be turning 12 in January and joining Army Cadets rather then finishing his last year with NLCC.  The reason-  we were told that NLCC isnt exactly related to Actual Cadets, even tho the NLCC corps here parades with the Navy Cadets; so we dont want our son wasting a year that is better spent in actual Cadets. We were told History with NLCC doesnt get them thru Cadets faster, you still start from scratch when you join Cadets, you just have a leg up on Drill and caring for your uniform compared to someone who didnt do NLCC.  Its just like how one still has to do BMQ if they decide to join the forces after being in Cadets.

Im sorry you and your Daughter have to deal with this and hope that something can possibly be done.


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## kratz (3 Dec 2008)

The RCSU(A) is in the lower part of Shearwater. They are probably best suited to answering your concerns. I'm sorry to hear how things turned out.


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## Harley Sailor (3 Dec 2008)

kratz said:
			
		

> The RCSU(A) is in the lower part of Shearwater. They are probably best suited to answering your concerns. I'm sorry to hear how things turned out.



They are the ones we have been dealing with right from the start.


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## kratz (3 Dec 2008)

Ok, pm has been sent.


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## Neill McKay (3 Dec 2008)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> My Daughter did 4 years in Navy League and then moved up to Naval Cadets.  In her third year she could have moved up to cadets but was convinced that it was in her best interest to do her last year in Navy League so she could become a CPO1. She was told that it would not hurt her because as a chief in Navy League she could join cadets and be able to write her test for her Able Seamens right away. This would have put her back with the people who moved up the year before.



A couple of flags pop up for me.  First of all, there is no test for advancement at AB (and there wasn't last year, before the rank structure was revised to match that of the CF).  Some local units may have a test and use it to advance former Navy League cadets but  there's nothing in the QSP to permit this.  Second, I wonder who told her it was better to stay in NL Cdts that last year: the sea cadet staff, or the Navy League cadet staff?  My guess is the latter, and if that's so then they have nothing to say about what goes on in a sea cadet corps.  I'm the CO of a sea cadet corps and you will never catch me encouraging anyone to stay in NL cadets one day past his or her 12th birthday -- I want them in my corps as soon as I can get them!

What we can do with a former NL cadet (or anyone else) who joins at the age of 14 is to arrange their training in such a way that they complete Phase 1 and Phase 2 in the same year, ending the year in the same place they would be in had they joined a year earlier.



> Well she did stay and was pormoted to CPO1.  When she got to naval cadets she was told that she would not be advanced.  We have been trying to find out why not and have not been told anything.  Last week we were told that the rules have been changed and that is why she could not be advanced.



There hasn't been a change in national policy on this any time recently.  Do you mind me asking what unit we're talking about? (By PM if you wish.)



> My questions are "Was she told the truth last year about staying back not hurting her?  When did they change the rules?  Who can I contact other then her local unit, to find out what can be done about her lost year?"



In all honesty, the harm to her cadet career won't be irreparable even if nothing is done.  She will still have time to make it to the top if she stays in until she ages out.  If she is a year older than most of the other cadets in her phase it is very likely that she will be recognized for her relative maturity and will be more likely to get the jammier positions in the unit as she reaches the PO level.  I've seen more than one situation in which a switched-on PO2 was in a more responsible position than a mediocre PO1.

One of the big concerns cadets have is how soon they can get their trade qualifications done and start being employed as staff cadets at the summer training centres.  For a cadet who stays an extra year in NL cadets it's quite likely that the sea cadet unit would send her on her Trade Group 1 course her first summer (rather than the General Training course that cadets usually start with), so in terms of her summer training she would not necessarily lose anything.

However, I can understand that it would be a very frustrating situation for her.  As a parent you are within your rights to speak to the detachment or the RCSU HQ itself.  If they can't do anything for you then it may be best to let her career take its course, with the knowledge that she is likely to stand above her peers and have a very good six years in the cadet programme.



			
				startbutton said:
			
		

> Our kids  were in Navy League,  My son will be turning 12 in January and joining Army Cadets rather then finishing his last year with NLCC.  The reason-  we were told that NLCC isnt exactly related to Actual Cadets, even tho the NLCC corps here parades with the Navy Cadets; so we dont want our son wasting a year that is better spent in actual Cadets. We were told History with NLCC doesnt get them thru Cadets faster, you still start from scratch when you join Cadets, you just have a leg up on Drill and caring for your uniform compared to someone who didnt do NLCC.  Its just like how one still has to do BMQ if they decide to join the forces after being in Cadets.



What you say is essentially correct: Navy League cadets are run entirely by the Navy League, with no formal involvement by DND.  There is often a lot of informal connection between a NL Cdt corps and a Sea Cadet corps when they parade in the same place, but none the less they are two very separate entities.  NL cadets have a leg up on sea cadet training beyond drill and uniforms, as much of their elemental training is similar to the earliest levels of sea cadet training.


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## Lil_T (3 Dec 2008)

I'm curious as to who told you this as I used to be with Navy League back in Hali.


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## Harley Sailor (3 Dec 2008)

Thank you all for the quick responces.  I knew this was the place to get the best answers to my questions.  As it was mostly my ex-wife dealing with this problem, I don't have all the answers so I will not point fingers.  That and it was not just one person involved.

I will say that NSCC Bidwell has not been the same since the present CO took over.


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## Lil_T (3 Dec 2008)

ah Bidwell, say no more.... I'm sorry you were misinformed and I hope your daughter's situation is resolved to everyone's satisfaction.  Bidwell hasn't been the same for a long time.


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## Lt(NL) Lawton (2 Jan 2009)

When we get cadets that are at the age of 12 they are encouraged to go up to sea cadets. for a # of reasons. They lose a year of camp if they stay, and most of their friends will have been advanced in rank and they would be left behind. Now depending on their b-day also depends on the camp issue. IE: My son turns 12 on the 24th of January, so because the deadline for applications is 31 December he has no chance of going to Quadra in the summer that follows, so he can finish the training year and then go up in September. 

Whoever told you that NL cadets is not in line with the sea cadets is sadly mistaken. 

Ever since I joined as a cadet in 1985 I have heard the argument that the NL teaches to much and that the sea cadet program suffers because of it. Edit: this is just an opinion from the local level, I never heard if this was pac regions formal stance.


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## gwp (4 Jan 2009)

Lt(NL) Lawton said:
			
		

> Edit: this is just an opinion from the local level, I never heard if this was pac regions formal stance.


The Cadet Organization takes no formal position. 

A new member of RCSC is a new member of RCSC regardless of their past activity whether as a Sea Scout, avid Yacht Club Sailor, or Navy League Cadet; all of which would bring some "nautical background" and related experience to being in RCSC.  

Progression in RCSC is as per the relavent CF Cadet Administration and Training Orders that make no direct provision for prior activity. 

From an attraction point of view the existence of the NL Cadet program has neither hindered nor advanced RCSC.  Enrollment in RCSCC has been static at about 9,500 for decades.


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## Harley Sailor (5 Jan 2009)

Thank you for all the good info I have recieved both on this board and through e-mails.

It seems that I have ruffled feathers from the local sea cadet level all the way to Ottawa.  The good thing is that her case is now part of the already in progress review to advance new entries 14 and over, and some Navy league members.

The end result is that what is done is done.  I have been told that if she joined at 12 she would have been advanced one rank if her knowledge level merited it.  Because we waited till her 13th birthday, she missed her first summer camp and did not get advanced.  Now she is 1.5 years behind her Navy League friends.  We will see if she is smart enough to catch them.  Her problem now is that she is bored because she already knows most of what she is learning.  Her second problem is that she will have an extra rank to get to PO2 because they are adding the Master rank to Sea Cadets.


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## Neill McKay (5 Jan 2009)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> Her second problem is that she will have an extra rank to get to PO2 because they are adding the Master rank to Sea Cadets.



That shouldn't be a problem for her.  The normal progression would still have a cadet promoted to PO2 after completing the third year of training, just as before.

The first two promotions have been compressed so that a cadet is normally promoted to AB after five months of service, LS at the end of the first training year, MS at the end of the second year, and PO2 at the end of the third.  Before this year the normal progression was Able Cadet at the end of the first year, Leading Cadet at the end of the second, and PO2 at the end of the third.


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