# Another example of tolerance abroad



## muskrat89 (26 Nov 2007)

This stuff really, really gets old after awhile. Especially when here, in North America, we go out of our way usually (and rightly so, perhaps) to not offend people of other faiths, or those that are new to our culture.

From http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1687755,00.html?cnn=yes



> The Blasphemous Teddy Bear
> 
> Monday, Nov. 26, 2007 By ROB CRILLY/KHARTOUM
> 
> ...


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## Bane (26 Nov 2007)

As Bill Maher said "...if your TGIF is a beheading, you're bringing up the rear of civilization"


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## riggermade (29 Nov 2007)

Another case of religious leaders proving they are out to lunch.  I am going to sue the makers of Waterboy for calling their donkey Steve...I am insulted


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## zipperhead_cop (29 Nov 2007)

WTF?   ???  
I deal with people named Mohammad all the time.  Is there some sort of religious moratorium on naming inanimate objects?  Or are teddy bears just inherently infidel-esque and clearly a blatant symbol of crusaders everywhere?


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## Danjanou (29 Nov 2007)

So I guess these are off my Christmas present list this year?


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## PMedMoe (30 Nov 2007)

And it gets worse.....Article link from CBC news

Teacher to serve 15 days in teddy bear blasphemy case

A Sudanese court sentenced a British schoolteacher to 15 days in prison on Thursday, after finding her guilty of insulting Islam when she used a stuffed bear named "Muhammad" as a teaching aid for her class.

Gillian Gibbons, 54, was sentenced to 15 days in prison, to be followed by a deportation order, one of the lawyers on her defence team said Thursday.

More on link


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## Bane (30 Nov 2007)

And it gets, you guessed it, even worse.....http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/30/sudan.bears/index.html

"Hundreds of angry protesters, some waving ceremonial swords from trucks equipped with loud speakers, gathered Friday outside the presidential palace to denounce a teacher whose class named a teddy bear "Mohammed" -- some calling for her execution."


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## Thompson_JM (30 Nov 2007)

But remeber.... its a religion of peace......  :

yeah #@$@ing right.............


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## vonGarvin (30 Nov 2007)

Tommy said:
			
		

> But remeber.... its a religion of peace......  :
> yeah #@$@ing right.............



And I suppose you've read the Koran?  What do you know about Islam other than suicide bombers and Burkas?

Let us not forget for a moment that not all who claim to practice a certain religion actually do.  There are Roman Catholics who do NOT treat others as they would be treated, there are Jews who covet their neighbours wives.  David Koresh claimed to be Christ himself, even as he wielded automatic weapons.


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## Retired AF Guy (30 Nov 2007)

I happened to catch the John Oakley show this morning (Friday 30 Nov) on 640 AM (http://www.640toronto.com) and he had some imam (can't remember his name) from Toronto on who agreed with the punishment for the teacher. He also said that sentencing to the gangrape victim in Saudi Arabia was justified. His argument was that "when in Rome, do as the Romans" and that under the Koran these punishments were justified.  In other words, when in a foreign country you should know what the laws are. When challenged by the host and some callers his tactic was to shout them down. Interesting enough a couple of guys called in supporting him. Just shows you that we have the fanatics here in Canada.

If you go to the 640 AM website you should be able find it in the archives. The interview took place between 0915 and 0945 hrs.


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## vonGarvin (30 Nov 2007)

Didn't Jerry Fallwell say that 9/11 was punishment for the US for its tolerance of homosexuals?  When in Rome indeed....


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## Traveller (30 Nov 2007)

Its news like this, that i use as ammunition in my conversations with people who oppose our participation in places overseas. I only can shake my head at hearing this. I just cant understand how a group of people can march in the streets and call for the death of a teacher, because the children in her class decided on a name (one of which was named Mohammed himself.) I think if she was wearing a burqua and was not white/english it may have been seen as praise, and not used as an excuse for more violence.


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## geo (30 Nov 2007)

From what I gather, the teacher "permitted" her class to call the teddy bear "Muhamad".
The bear travelled around to the various student's homes and pert much everyone was ok with the bear & his name.
It only takes one "screw loose" to put a wrench in the machine.

Imand & religious zealots wanted the teacher stoned, whipped, caned & jailed for this religious breach in etiquette.

I believe that the government and the court's decision to "jail 15 days & deport" was the best they could do without creating riot & mayhem in the streets - which could throw the country into more trouble than it is already.....

For jail, she's prolly in incarcerated into an unmarked hotel room under house arrest, counting the days before she will be put on a plane to the west.

When in Rome....


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## dapaterson (30 Nov 2007)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Didn't Jerry Fallwell say that 9/11 was punishment for the US for its tolerance of homosexuals?  When in Rome indeed....



And weren't the IRA and the UDF all good Christians?

Therefore, all Christians are violent terrorists.


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## Thompson_JM (1 Dec 2007)

There is a Difference in my Opinion....

Ive met alot more christians who openly denounce Violent Action, and the existance of extremist branches of their religion, then I have of Muslims in the same situation.

and belive me, Ive had conversations with both sides...

this is why I dont belive in that Crap people call organized religion.... 

Ive noticed it really tends to start more problems then it could ever hope to solve.
and for the record, I was raised Catholic. So Im not Ignorant to religion... I just got older and realized that it does nothing IMHO to better me as a person.

Islam also seems to be the only overtly vocal religion these days that is still condoning violence as a norm. or a way to solve problems... 
and its not just the crazy wild ones over there. like Retired AF Guy , ive seen em in canada too....
its only a religion of peace as long as you follow all of their rules, and agree with everything they say. if you dont then youre a filthy infidel.... 

case in point: if someone drew Jesus Humping a Cross, would Catholics all over the world start Blowing up middle eastern embassys? NO!
but draw a picture of Mohammud and the Islam world goes nuts.... it wasnt just Al-Queda throwing Molotov Cocktails at the Embassys...... 

Are Christians Innocent? hell no.  Have the majority of them learned to express their displeasure through other means then violence? Im going with yes.



			
				Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> ...the John Oakley show this morning (Friday 30 Nov) on 640 AM (http://www.640toronto.com) and he had some imam (can't remember his name) from Toronto on who agreed with the punishment for the teacher. He also said that sentencing to the gangrape victim in Saudi Arabia was justified. His argument was that "when in Rome, do as the Romans" and that under the Koran these punishments were justified.



This Blows my mind.... then again, He just happens to live in a country where he has the freedom to talk like that....

as opposed to most of the middle eastern and southwest asian countries of origin for some of these people and their families, where they would be arrested, or killed, or made to dissapear if they spoke out of turn or against the party line.....

Like I said... Religion of peace.... : if theyre so Damn peacefull then why do alot of the predominantly Islamic countries have some of the worst human rights violations out there? why is their Judicial system semblant to something from the middle ages? 

Peacefull religions dont take peoples hands off for stealing an apple or stone someone for holding hands in public. (and yes there are plently of loony toon christians out there who are in the same boat. but we try to keep them from getting into too many positions of authority... and have basic human right laws in place to prevent them from screwing with our system too much...)


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## Flip (1 Dec 2007)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> WTF?   ???
> I deal with people named Mohammad all the time.  Is there some sort of religious moratorium on naming inanimate objects?  Or are teddy bears just inherently infidel-esque and clearly a blatant symbol of crusaders everywhere?



I think you hit the nail on the head.( second sentence ) - She's white and British, ergo a pissoff
to the local authorities.

As to the Imam in Toronto, let's call his position what it is.
Hate speech.  I'm all for providing him a free one way ticket 
to wherever people like that go......


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## 1feral1 (1 Dec 2007)

Tommy said:
			
		

> But remeber.... its a religion of peace......  :
> 
> yeah #@$@ing right.............



No PC BS from me, the whole lot of them, are off my Christmas list PERIOD!

I've just had it with the shyte they pull.

Regards,

Wes


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## Flip (1 Dec 2007)

> No PC BS from me, the whole lot of them, are off my Christmas list PERIOD!


 :rofl:

It might be more frightening to be on your Christmas list... ;D

Cheers Wes!


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## Bane (1 Dec 2007)

In Soviet Russia, bear names you.


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## eurowing (1 Dec 2007)

All of this is precisely why I like the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.  May his noodly goodness envelope you.


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## Thompson_JM (2 Dec 2007)

eurowing said:
			
		

> All of this is precisely why I like the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.  May his noodly goodness envelope you.



Tell me more about this church you speak of... I love Pasta!


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## zipperhead_cop (2 Dec 2007)

Tommy said:
			
		

> Tell me more about this church you speak of... I love Pasta!



Fill yer boots, young Pastafarian


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## Danjanou (2 Dec 2007)

And the Brits get their revenge  >

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mohamed-Teddy-Bear-AKA-Jesus-Bear-Buddha-Bear-Tony-Bear_W0QQitemZ190179633954QQihZ009QQcategoryZ117QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem


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## Greymatters (2 Dec 2007)

The woman needs a bit of a smack upside the head herself.

Anyone who goes to Sudan, is female, is white, and not Muslim, and is a teacher from a Western country, and thinks that they are safe from harm is an idiot.  She should have been out of there months ago if not years ago.


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## Thompson_JM (2 Dec 2007)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Fill yer boots, young Pastafarian



I think we have a Convert!  ;D


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## Bane (2 Dec 2007)

She probably understood very well that there would be strict limits on her conduct, she better than most I would imagine.  I also expect that she, others in Sudan, and several billion people worldwide would not have expected her life to be jeopardized by a teddy bear.  I have never deployed with the CF, but I have done volunteer work outside of N.A.  I once caught nasty rock in the back of the head while I was walking alone because some people thought I was of a 'undesirable' religion.  The team I was with was not a religious oriented group in anyway, more rum oriented...but that's another story.  Anyway, I've gone back many times since. Perhaps she is just trying to help the disadvantaged at the acceptance of some personal risk.  I think she was brave to do so, perhaps naive also, but no way to know until one speaks to her.


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## Traveller (3 Dec 2007)

I agree with most of the above posts. wanted to point out that the school is a christian oriented/run british school(as per initial post). So she was probbably reasured that the teaching conditions would be even more relaxed and similar to hers at home. They have even closed the school in an effort to avoid hostile retaliation.
Its great that people try to extend a hand of peace and friendship and try and find some sort of middle ground. If enough people do this in places that are not past the breaking point, things would be much better off. But when the hand is slapped away continually and middle ground not acheived, its time to leave or build a wall.
I only hope that this sheds light on the other things that may be going on in sudan... like Darfur.   Sorry a bit off topic. But it gets my back up.


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## geo (3 Dec 2007)

Well... it would appear that the President of Sudan has "pardoned" the lady AND has had her deported back to the UK.

I wonder, if someone "names" his child Muhamad and the child turns out to be a mental midget OR behaves in a retarded manner.... should the child AND his parent be stoned for the insult that they are to the great name of Muhamad?

(Note - I am truly interested.... not attempting to stir the pot any more than it already has)


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> I wonder, if someone "names" his child Muhamad and the child turns out to be a mental midget OR behaves in a retarded manner.... should the child AND his parent be stoned for the insult that they are to the great name of Muhamad?



That is different.  We already know that there are many who have named their children Mohamed and those children have in fact been 'mental midgets'.  Some have been stoned.  Some have not.   Some have gone on to seek out a bevy of Virgins by various forms of 'martyrdom'.  

It seems what is good for the goose over there, is not good for the gander.    :


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## geo (3 Dec 2007)

Aaaah - thank you!


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

Ahh, the glory and the majesty of organized religion.  Got a beef?  Find a line in a book that you can choose to interpret in order to justify acting like a yard ape.  
(No insult intended to Yard Ape if he is still a member here  ;D)


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## geo (3 Dec 2007)

Zipp.... isn't that what the Catholics did during the Inquisition?
Our past isn't any cleaner


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Zipp.... isn't that what the Catholics did during the Inquisition?
> Our past isn't any cleaner



That was my point.


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2007)

Still......Christianity has progressed just a little bit in the last 600 years.   It would look like we can not say the same about all religions.


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Still......Christianity has progressed just a little bit in the last 600 years.  It would look like we can not say the same about all religions.



Perhaps it is a growing pains thing?  Isn't Islam roughly a thousand years younger than Christianity?  Perhaps the radical acolytes of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster will be acting like idiots 500 years from now?


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2007)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Perhaps it is a growing pains thing?  Isn't Islam roughly a thousand years younger than Christianity?  Perhaps the radical acolytes of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster will be acting like idiots 500 years from now?



Right!  Nothing a Sonic Screwdriver can't fix.


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## Traveller (3 Dec 2007)

All religions have had their ups and downs. Islam has had its bright shining moment of knowledge and understanding. There was a time when they were great mathmaticians and philosophers and architects. But with the religious revolution (all religions go through this at some point), they kind of fell apart at the seams, getting caught up in the details of their faith rather than the goal. Mind you mohammad was a bit of a mad man to start with.
And now, men who have never seen a womans elbows (let alone anything else) flip out when it is convenient. I found the book 'trouble with islam today' a good insight. Written by all things... an educated and outspoken (and kinda cute) woman who beleives in islam (albeit a peacefull one that does not include explosives).

http://www.irshadmanji.com/

she posted a cartoon from the LA times that gave me a good chuckle.


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Right!  Nothing a Sonic Screwdriver can't fix.



Look for Metro call boxes popping up near a mosque near you!


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2007)

Now we're just being silly.  We will have to be executed.


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Now we're just being silly.  We will have to be executed.



Stone me first!!  I'm a bigger infidel than you!


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## IN HOC SIGNO (3 Dec 2007)

Well a case like this sure brings out the anti-religious/spiritual bigots doesn't it? Thanks to those who have labelled all persons of faith as wack jobs and looney tunes. Oh yeah and especialy to the guy who loves to generalize "all religious leaders are fanatics,"(you know who you are). As a religious leader myself I assure you that my views are very similar to that of the "norm" in Canadian society and "organised" helps me and a whole lot of other folks stay on track, rather than blow with the wind on every new trend that hits the streets, your blanket condemnation extends to a lot of wonderful and generous people who serve alongside you.

The agenda in Sudan is much the same as the agenda under the Taliban in Afghanistan....it's not so much about religion (although that's what the hate mongers have disguised it as) as it is about anti-Westernism.  This woman never had a chance from the get go....she was a babe in wonderland. The agenda of the government of Sudan ,which is dominated by anti-Western sentiment, is to get rid of the school and it's influence....she is a convenient scape goat.


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## Flip (3 Dec 2007)

Just to interject....

Islam isn't "organized" the same way Christianity is. One could argue that this lack of structure
has something to do with why Islam develops differently.  Or one could say Islam has in 
some cases slipped back or devolved of late.  Depends where you are.  Depends on culture.

 I agree with InHoc - I think "Darfur" is the same "enemy" in a different place than Afghanistan. 
It's a ploy for influence in both regions.  It has more to do with Arab culture than Islam.

I've said it before - If you don't have a faith it's unreasonable to claim knowledge of or make 
a pronouncement about those who do.  

Yes Christianity has a checkered past. But it also has some astonishing successes.
Not the least of which, is to participate in the pluralist and perimissive staus quo we call freedom.
The first words spoken by the Imam who spoke at the US national memorial in Washington 
after 9-11 were " There is no morality without free choice". I believe this to be true.   

 Gee, I hope InHoc agrees with me, now that I've paraphrased....


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> Well a case like this sure brings out the anti-religious/spiritual bigots doesn't it? Thanks to those who have labelled all persons of faith as wack jobs and looney tunes. Oh yeah and especialy to the guy who loves to generalize "all religious leaders are fanatics,"(you know who you are). As a religious leader myself I assure you that my views are very similar to that of the "norm" in Canadian society and "organised" helps me and a whole lot of other folks stay on track, rather than blow with the wind on every new trend that hits the streets, your blanket condemnation extends to a lot of wonderful and generous people who serve alongside you.
> 
> The agenda in Sudan is much the same as the agenda under the Taliban in Afghanistan....it's not so much about religion (although that's what the hate mongers have disguised it as) as it is about anti-Westernism.  This woman never had a chance from the get go....she was a babe in wonderland. The agenda of the government of Sudan ,which is dominated by anti-Western sentiment, is to get rid of the school and it's influence....she is a convenient scape goat.



So in your first paragraph, you get mad at people who generalize, then make general statements about those type of people.  
Your second paragraph suggests that the Sudanese government is using religion as a malleable tool to leverage an anti-western agenda.  Which was perhaps part of my point about organized religion.   ???
Seems a bit contradictory.

Flip, I think you could capably argue that there has been some pretty impressive organization on the part of various Islamic groups (not always for good, mind you) which, given the goals they were striving towards, would count as resounding success. 
I myself am not anti-religious and count myself as a Christian.  I just don't think that the Catholic Church is in any real position to hold up a banner and call themselves The Right Ones (good intentions aside).


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2007)

You have to remember what we have discussed in previous topics about what is happening in the Islamic world.  There is a war/competition on between many Islamic states as to whom is the real 'home of Islam'.  Sudan is one of those nations.  Iran is another.  Iraq is another.  Not only are fundamentalist Muslims anti-West, but they are also deeply against other Muslims who do not fit their views of Islam.  

It is not a simple straight forward case of a 'Clash of Religions' or 'Clash of Civilizations'; it is a heck of a lot more complicated than that.


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## midget-boyd91 (3 Dec 2007)

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth now. Not sure if it's really worth those 2 cents, but hey.
   I honestly don't think that religion has anything to do with what happened, whats happening, or what *will* happen. Why? Because humans are humans, and when a human is brought up from a child with war, murder, rape, and extremism surrounding it.. the odds are pretty damn good that said human isn't going to be the nicest person to be around.
   In my little opinion it is all about the region.. not religion. Take 5 newborns from out in the sticks, hickville Canada, and have them raised by a family in  Mogadishu and go take a look at them once they've grown. I can give you a pretty safe estimate on what will be seen:
   Magadishu Baby: Pending the baby survived its childhood to become an adult, you will see a low level of tolerance. When it has been offended by somebody, don't be surprised if he picks up an AK and kills whomever offended him, and their entire family. Why? Because violence and lawlessness is rampid in Mogadishu, and this person was brought up with that sence of lawlessness as a norm. 
   Take a baby from the streets of Mogadishu and raise it in Hickville Canada, you're going to have a coloured redneck.
   The religion doesn't have anything to do with it... they have all just lived with a extreme views their entire lives. If the roles were reversed, and Europe was predominatly Muslim when the Europeans started settling in the New World, we would have Korans on our nightstands instead of Holy Bibles. Many of us would stop going to Mosques, instead of not going to church, and we would have Christian radicals throughout Africa, the Middle East etc. 
Theres my 2 cents./ Hopefully I was able to get what was in my head into writing that was at least semi-comprehendable, and doesn't just look like mindless jabber.

midget


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## Flip (3 Dec 2007)

> I just don't think that the Catholic Church is in any real position to hold up a banner and call themselves The Right Ones (good intentions aside).


Unless you're giving them credit for keeping excellent records.... ;D

Mom is Catholic, Dad was Methodist - I'm nominally Baptist. ( Catholic for tax purposes )
I think maybe the "right ones" are the ones you're with?.......... No, I messed that up.  

I suspect tolerance is fading notion in today's world.  Global media helps us all stay angry.
And I don't think I would suggest that religious circumstances are as interchangeable as 
Uncle Midget Boyd is suggesting.  
I'm pretty sure George has it about right. -  A big competition to lead the ....revolution?


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## Traveller (3 Dec 2007)

In some ways i disagree with your region assessment. there are countless examples of people who have been in those wartorn countries. And grown up with violence, and hatred and death and dismemberment. There are germans who lived during the nazi occupation and never reduced themselves to killing jewish people. In other places like mogadishu a large portion of those people get old enough to understand some basic human element and leave the area/country/beleif system. I'm not saying all of these people escape that cycle, but i think there is a bit of a generalization when you say "Pending the baby survived its childhood to become an adult, you will see a low level of tolerance."  

This is why we have people who are refugees. its not black and white. And religion does have alot to do with the islamic side of things. Its used alot as a justification in many of the conflics from dafur to iraq to <insert location here>. Just as catholism was used during the crusades(Dont take offence, i went to catholic school). 

There is no perfect world where everyone acts the same. Often these people are indoctrinated into the process, and are shown only one side of a view. Hence my segway *back into the topic*: The woman was overseas trying to do what she thought was right, in a non violent way, and show that the west/britan/christians/humans are not all painted the same color. I wonder how those kids will grow up? I would hope that they remember their teddy bear, and when they get old/mature enough to weigh the facts that they remember, maybe decide that killing their teacher would not have been a morally correct choice. We grow judging of our parent generations method of handling things. Many islamic countries give birth to children that look at how their violent parents act, and learn that wearing jeans or drinking coke or showing their hair is not a 'stonable' offence, and they fight for that right.

An example of this is some of the old school Sikh dads wont allow their daughters to marry white guys. There have been deaths. But it doesnt mean that the brothers of these daughters turn out to be like dad.

<end rant>

Sorry for the length. Just my 1.50$


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

Just for point of clarification:
I am not saying any particular religion is good or bad, and they all have their good and bad points (of course, Heavens Gate kind of had a bad retirement package).  My point is that any organized religion has the potential to be selectively interpreted by a power monger with an agenda, or a zealot with a homicidal urge.  As with all tools, they can be used for building or destruction.


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## Flip (3 Dec 2007)

> I am not saying any particular religion is good or bad



I think you'd be on safe ground if you said Wahabism is a net negative.


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## zipperhead_cop (3 Dec 2007)

Flip said:
			
		

> I think you'd be on safe ground if you said Wahabism is a net negative.



Maybe, but I would hate to get labeled an 





> anti-religious/spiritual bigot


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## IN HOC SIGNO (3 Dec 2007)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Just for point of clarification:
> I am not saying any particular religion is good or bad, and they all have their good and bad points (of course, Heavens Gate kind of had a bad retirement package).  My point is that any organized religion has the potential to be selectively interpreted by a power monger with an agenda, or a zealot with a homicidal urge.  As with all tools, they can be used for building or destruction.



I think you're right....any organized thing can have that potential....political parties, international charities etc....wherever people are involved has the potential for corruption. Religion has done enormously good things too which gets forgotten often...the goodness of Mother Theresa, the part that Catholicism had in Poland with the influence of the last Pope in helping them break the influence of communism etc. and the influence Christianity had in the development of our way of life in NA and the rule of law.
My reference to religious/spiritual bigot was aimed at someone else who was lumping all "organised religions" as the work of loonies and wack jobs.


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## DBA (4 Dec 2007)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Just for point of clarification:
> I am not saying any particular religion is good or bad, and they all have their good and bad points (of course, Heavens Gate kind of had a bad retirement package).  My point is that any organized religion has the potential to be selectively interpreted by a power monger with an agenda, or a zealot with a homicidal urge.  As with all tools, they can be used for building or destruction.



Religion holds no monoply here. Hitler, Mao, Hirohito and Stalin and the movements they were part of were all just as supremacist as some religious movements and caused incalculable misery and death. All are a path to ruin through the actions they take and their intolerance to other ideas.


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## midget-boyd91 (4 Dec 2007)

> ...And religion does have alot to do with the islamic side of things. Its used alot as a justification in many of the conflicts ...



Yep, thats about what I had in my head when I started rambling on.... because they have been brought up with extreme lines in the way Islam has been practiced, they can use Islam as justification for many of their acts (eg. Saudi rape victim etc). Here, the lines of whats acceptable/not acceptable aren't as...harsh, if someone commits a sin or breaks a commandment, so we don't need to use religion as a means of justification.
  Had I been able to explain that better in my first attempt, I probably could have saved myself from typing so much.


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## geo (5 Dec 2007)

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> Take a baby from the streets of Mogadishu and raise it in Hickville Canada, you're going to have a coloured redneck.



UMB,
If you look at the wave of immigrants who moved to the UK at the end of the Imperial Raj, the majority did just that.  The dressed like the Brits and did their damndest to integrate with the UK population.  For the most part, they did quite well.  Unfortunately, some of the next generation appears to have hit a brick wall.  With limited employment prospects, many sons of immigrants have found themselves put down.  They have also gone about learning a radical version of the religion their parents might have treated in the same way as we have treated Christianity.

An ugly combination.... the home grown islamists....


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