# Civilian Clerks - How's this work?



## cameron_highlander (13 Feb 2007)

It's kind of an admin issue, so it's here. 

So I've been having countless admin issues with my University Liason Officer (fancy name for the clerk that does all my admin work), he just happens to be a civvie (the other guy who does names L-Z is military). It's been one long list of late payments of claims, not getting advances in time with enough prior notice and most especially my pay issue. He's got the paperwork showing my new pay status, and its been nearly a month and nadda, nothing zlich, not even an email back telling me if he's done it yet (I've sent 4 and counting). 

So, what are my methods to reddress this? Basically, I'm claiming that my clerk is completely incompetent (he's famous for it, anyone who's been with the CFB London orderly room and is a ROTP type can attest to this) and needs a boot in the arse to sort him out. Who can do that, and how do I go about doing it? I know with a CF member you talk to their next-up in the chain, but what about a civvie?

Save the comments about me being whiny and selfish please, I've put up with getting nothing done admin wise for 3 semesters and I'm sick of it. I'm expected to have my admin work completed properly and promptly, and I expect the same from them (but I want to avoid saying that, I expressed these concerns to my Subsidised Education Manager, a Capt, and almost ended up doing a hatless dance for it). Problem is, I'm holding up my end of the bargin, but they aren't. And I'd like to know how I can fix this (I want to do it properly, not be one of those people who files a grievance with the ombudsman).


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## aesop081 (13 Feb 2007)

Even a Civie has a supervisor.....


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## armyvern (13 Feb 2007)

Based on what he's doing job-wise, I'd go with the fact he's either a CR03 or CR04; that means his next in the CoC is the MCpl (or next higher rank) overseeing the OR cells. IE: The same supervisor that the Cpl answers to. Or possibly the civilian supervisor of those cells. Regardless, the CoC is applicable to civilian employees of DND as well.

Get your ducks in a row and put it in writing.

Edited to add: If adressing the sit with the immediate supervisor doesn't work for you, ask for the CC (Chief Clerk).

Vern


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## Roy Harding (13 Feb 2007)

The Librarian nailed it.

I may be retired now, but I know what "taking care of soldiers" means - and it ain't what you have reported getting.

I would caution you, however, that a month and a half turn around for pay changes is not unreasonable.  The pay system works on a monthly basis - IE - your yearly salary is divided into twelve, and parceled out that way.  Almost any change you make to a member's pay account will NOT take effect until the next month - SO, if you changed something near the end of January, it is not unreasonable for it to not show up in your pay account until March.  (There's a cutoff for effecting changes - I can't remember what it is - someone more current than I will be along to straighten both of us out.)  (Caveat:  the above is reference to Regular Force Pay only - nobody on earth has figured out the Reserve system yet   ;D).

The remainder of your post gives rise to concerns.  I do believe The Librarian has offered you the best advice you will receive - I strongly urge you to take it.

Roy


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## armyvern (13 Feb 2007)

Piper,

To add further to Roy's post there are some things that just happen a certain way in the CF. He is correct with his post regarding allowable time limits for changes to pay accounts to be made electronically. You say it's been almost a month since he's recd your new pay status, so it is entirely possible that he recd that just after the beginning of the month, in which case you will not see anything change on your pay until the next months pay period, at the minimum. If you have access to the EMAA website, I suggest you log into it. From there you can access your pay guides and can see your pay guide for the upcoming month to see if the changes have been made. This is the purpose of the EMAA system. There, you can also review your MPRR etc.

Requesting advances for books/tuition etc: At my location I have a cutoff date. Students here must give 2 weeks prior notice for a required advance to their assigned ULO. Unless it is an emergency (they can always be actioned if not a self-imposed emergency - and I see an awful lot of that 'forgetting thing here'). Quite simply put, this is because of the system that my OR staff has to work with. Claims X is the system used for processing claims/advances in the CF. You report for your required advance (min 2 weeks before you need it), the ULO raises your claim, signs it, has it authorized by the supervisor and then inputs into the ClaimsX program. Once that claim is input into Claims X it then sits there until your advance monies are approved and released to your bank account by the Head Cashier. This (releasing your monies) is not done by the ULO. In my case here, as we are not a Base but merely a support Unit, we have no Head Cashier. Therefore our ClaimsX inputs are electronically uploaded to the nearest CF Base (that is where Head Cashiers are located), namely Gagetown, and they are amassed in with the hundreds of other Claims for TD, BTU, Pay, Advances etc etc that she must action individually for release into pay accounts that she deals with each week. Once yours makes it to the top of her list, she releases the funds and 48 hours later they show up in your bank account. That is the nature of ClaimsX. Until your claim is actioned by the Head Cashier (wherever the one supporting your ULO is located) no funds will be delivered to your account. So, be careful in your wording and what you alledge against the ULO, for the problem may not be with the ULO at all. And remember that, the larger the customer base and number of claims being processed for release of funds to the bank by the Head Cashier, the longer it takes to get them all actioned. In Gagetown's case the volume of claims, pay advances, BTU claims, student claims etc is enormous due to the high volume of ResF members, CF students at CTC and University students being dealt with. The more notice that you can give for requirements for advances, the much better off you will be and the better your odds of receiving it in time.

EMAA (DWAN only): http://dhrim04.desc.mil.ca/EMAA/

Always speak to the lowest level of supervisor first. This is the proper thing to do and you will find that it is the acceptable standard in the CF. You must give that supervisor the opportunity to do their job for they can not fix a problem that they are not aware of. To go over their head is stepping on their toes. Always settle things at the lowest level of the CoC possible.

If this does not work for you, then ask to speak with the Chief Clerk, who's first question is going to be "have you spoken to XXX's supervisor?" 

Also, never assume that "he's famous for it, anyone who's been with the CFB London orderly room and is a ROTP type can attest to this" because if those same pers have NOT addressed the reported issues with this clerk, officially in writing, it is indeed merely a whine. If you want this clerk to receive "a boot in the arse to sort him out" and you are alledging incompetence, and your complaints are founded, you should be putting it in writing. Especially with a civilian employee. That is what makes your complaint official and it is that statement in writing from you that will back up and/or justify any required disciplinary action occurring.

Your wording. Fix it. If you are using the same statements (incompetent, arse, idiot, everyone knows it etc) that you have set out below in your original post, it's no wonder that your SEM almost ripped your head off and I highly suspect were anything you said/wrote to the Chief Clerk done in a likewise manner, the results would be close to the same. You must word what you have to say in a manner that remains professional yet gets your point across. The more professional your demeanor and wording are, the more seriously your complaint will be taken.

Good luck in finding out what is causing the situation with your advances but I highly suspect the delay is not on the clerk (ULO) upon whom you are placing the blame. For if the ULO has input your request into ClaimsX during your visit, the release of the funds to your bank is now well out of their hands and has moved up the ladder to the Head Cashier's desk.


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## PO2FinClk (13 Feb 2007)

Also to note that in cases of pers attending/qualifying under various University programs through enrolement, that the clerks in London may or may not have the authority to update HRMS (which in turn triggers CCPS = Pay). In some instances those authorities are withheld by units such as CFRG or even CDA. I do not know for certain, but it would not be surprising if this scenario were to occur. The result is that the wait time can be slightly longer then the delays mentioned previously.

Aside from that possibility, Roy & Vern have both explained in excellent detail the steps which you should undertake. From the time the ULO gets your paperwork and raises the claim, it still has to go through a review process (Signing Authorities) which could be where your claims are being delayed and not the ULO clerk him/herself. You do seem to have a legitimate issue, however I would advise against jumping to conclusions and rather suggest you only address "your" issue, and not that of the clerk's imcomptence themselves as you may not be aware of all the factors involved.

Note that ClaimsX is to be used for Temporary Duty Travel only, rather Tuition & Books would be done through a CF52 hardcopy claim. Only in the rarest exceptions, as is possibly the situation for Vern, can ClaimsX ever be used for purposes other then TD.


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## armyvern (13 Feb 2007)

Depends on your location.

Here, the 3ASG Comd has directed that ClaimsX will indeed be used to the maximum extent possible for all processing.


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## PO2FinClk (13 Feb 2007)

Don't let Ottawa know or they'll shut ClaimsX down for your location, unless of course they have prior permission to utilize it in that fashion, and that's coming from a ClaimsX Administrator.  As I mentioned, only in the rarest of instances is ClaimsX authorized for that type of use.


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