# ATIS and LCIS TECH.



## biggie786

I have choosen ATIS and LCIS as my trades during selection process. I saw the videos and spoke to recruiters. But I would like to hear from someone who is in that trade about their life style, work and anything that can help me...Thanks

BIGGIE786


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## biggie786

Guess no ATIS or LCIS Technicians here


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## Pikache

It may take a few days to get a reply.

The trades you‘re asking about is pretty uncommon.

Maybe posting the question in the combat support trades forum might help.


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## Bert

I‘m not yet in the military but in the application process.  I‘ve worked in the North for a communications company who did occasionaly contracts with DND.  Indirectly, I have some familiarity with some aspects of the ATIS, and less with the LCIS techs.

From my experience, the ATIS and LCIS work on the electronics and communciations systems not found in the aircraft or within land vehicals.  On base, they repair service and maintain HF, VHF, UFH, X-band based communication systems usually this is hand-held or base station transceivers.  They set-up and maintain satellite earth stations, computer networks, datacom systems, to the more mundane paging, order wires, intercom and telephone systems.  In the field, they‘d be setting up satellite earth stations, radio systems, and the general electronics techs on a case by case basis.
The ATIS techs may be more involved with travel here and there to FOL sites, radar/remote/repeater site s(manned and unmanned), verifying contractor work in various locations, commissioning of comm systems, and verifying system integrities.  ATIS may be attached to land and sea elements depending.  I don‘t know about the LCIS techs in this regard.

I‘d expect alot of non-MOC duties too like general cleaning, duty NCO, security detailing and monitoring, help desk, cafeteria help as the higher ranks order. 

Anyone who may know Bill Self (Selfcom) from travels in the North, he sends his regards.


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## biggie786

Thanks for the information. Cafeteria help and cleaning really sucks though!


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## Bert

Perhaps I‘m not the person to write this but as a friend in the airforce told me, "You‘re an airman first, MOC specific second" though you apparently do a majority of your MOC duties anyway.  You could be called on to do many things not necessarily or directly related to your MOC that rounds you out more as a CF member. This is what I gather.


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## klumanth

What you do as an LCIS or ATIS tech depends entirely on your posting choice once you are done your QL-3.  Typically an LCIS tech will deal with the TCCCS radios and TE (Terminal Equipment - Switchboards, phones etc.) to start with.  After that, again depending where you are posted you will then get the option of going on different courses like satellite communications, UNIX courses, network admin courses and many others.  A lot of ATIS tech‘s get to work on the computer and satellite stuff as well.  I‘m sure they do many other wonderful things but I can‘t speak for them.


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## tacobrock

I have a question for any LCIS tech‘s in here.  I took the Electronics Technician‘s course at BCIT in 1999 for eight months.  Then, I went to University in Edmonton for two years (Arts).  However, I‘m not doing as well as I thought in University (I‘ve even taken a year off) but I do still have interest in the Electronics trade.  I did well at BCIT (74%) so here‘s my question: would I bypass any training ‘cause of my previous qualification at BCIT?  Plus, I‘ve just received my application papers through the mail; after a similar question like this was asked through the DND recruiting website and the app. package was their answer (hmmph).  Anyways, I‘ll quit taking up some space.  Cheers.

ps - I used the Warrant Officer icon ‘cause that was my rank when I was in cadets.  Sorry to deceive.  Ciao.


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## klumanth

That should be sufficient to receive the signing bonus/corporals.  One of the big things they look for is AM/FM theory but I would imagine you would‘ve got that.


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## tacobrock

Thanks for the info. Maven.  I wasn‘t too sure on that.  Perhaps you can answer another question for me.  Is there space available right now in the trade?  Any kind of insight small or big will be helpful.  Cheers.

Brock ‘n Roll
ciao.


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## Bert

I took the Electonics Engineering Technician-Digital program at Algonquin College, Ottawa, 2 yr.  Its an electronics technician program but in the fourth semester we spend more time on microprocessor based systems and therefore the "Digital" extension.  

According to a CF Skills Assessor, the CF has educational program equivalencies and paricularily the college electronics courses that specify telecommunications or Communications are directly accepted.  My course, even though it was as thorough as any electronics program, was not on their list of accepted equivalencies for POET or aspects of the LCIS/ATIS/or AMS QL3.

I had to send in a document describing my education and work experience in detail to be assessed for qualification and by-pass POET.  If I didn‘t qualify, then I‘d have to start at the beginning of POET. It apparently saves almost a year in courses yet I wouldn‘t actually mind if I had to take it. I even provided the Algonquin Technology Department telephone number so the Assessor could hear objective course information.  

The CF may get in touch with you if your program isn‘t on their list of equivalencies and ask you for more program and work experience information.
Be thorough, descriptive, and concise if they ask you for it.


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## klumanth

So far as I know, the trade is open.  However, the best person to answer that question is the recruiter.  Sometimes, even if your course does specify telecommunications, as mine did, they may not give you the equivalency.  I eventually got POET written off by bringing in all my marks, course reports, course outlines etc. once I was in Kingston.  If they don‘t give you an equivalency, and there doesn‘t appear to be a good reason for that, ask if they can forward your file to CFSCE for evaluation.  They may look at you like you have 3 heads but someone there should know what to do.


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## biggie786

As a LCIS what kind of work exactly do you get to do..do you get to work with computer networks at all? or is it just fixing up old radios. Please advise because I have picked ATIS and LCIS as my choices. Thanks!


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## klumanth

If you want to work on computers, I think you may have better chances with ATIS.  Then again, it all depends where you get posted.  As an LCIS tech you will probably start with fixing radios and other TCCCS components but may be able to move on to Satellite comms and computer related work.  There are many good courses available to both LCIS and ATIS techs.  I highly recommend either of these trades.


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## meni0n

Hi,
What exactly is ATIS techs? I didn‘t see them in the list of trades.


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## biggie786

ATIS Tech: stands for Aerospace telecommunication and Information Systems technician..it‘s an airforce trade


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## Dire

When I handed in my application I picked 


1) Comm Research 2) Land Communication 3) Vechial Mechanic

all 3 choices were full.

Since I‘m already in the computer networking trade, COMM Research is the only CF career that has computer networking so I left it as #1. Since the other 2 were full I rechosed them to open ones.

Aerospace was open so I picked it as #2. I probley will not go for that career since I want to do Comm Research but I picked it so they‘d process my application and when I get passed all the testing they will ask me if I want to join.

During my interview, The recruiter told me to make it clear that I want into COMM Research and Im willing to wait for it to open but want all my testing done since I want to get the job faster then normal.


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## meni0n

Dire, have you looked at Sig Ops? I‘ve chosen it since I‘m going to the reserves but maybe down the line when I go to the regular I might switch to COMM RSCH.


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## Dire

No I havent since I might as well apply for COMM Research since im going Regular   


But Sig Ops might be an option..


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## shado_wolf

sorry to thread jack.

I went to apply today and heard that lcis tech, and comm rsch are closed as well.  Well there goes two of three.  

Then the recruiter got into the pitch for the SEP for ATIS.  **** but it sounds sweet.  I am pretty well sold.  My problem is that I only wanna be army.  I think I was meant to wear green not blue.

Now the same program exists for LCIS but it is closed until god knows when.  

Well, does anyone know if you can switch branches after your initial contract?  How hard is it?  

Thought i‘ld ask these questions here because the users in this topic seem to be interested in the same fields as myself and I am sure you‘ll get the same sales pitch as myself.  I dunno how sold y‘all are on being in the army instead of the air force.

PS

anyone know of any forums for air force akin to this one.  It has provided me with a wealth of info and I‘ld like to learn more from those serving in the air force now.


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## Dire

Yes shadowwolf. We are in the same boat..


I want to be army and not Navy/Airforce. 

I asked the recruiter if you can switch and he said it‘s possible but closer to impossible since they‘d have to give up the trainning they gave you and then find someone/train him to replace you while they pay you to train in another career.

What is SEP and ATIS by the way?


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## Bert

I think if you ahve patience, going Army for the LCIS trade may not be too hard.  The local CFRC may have to do some investigation.

The MOCs may open and close several times a year.  Its based on many reasons but the main one from my understanding is the sceduling and intake of recruits from BMQ to POET to QL3.  They can‘t take too many at one point since the spaces for POET and QL3 may be limited.  For the LCIS, ATIS, NAV Techs for example, the BMQs for these recruits has to be scheduled so the successful candidates carry on into POET and QL3 at the right time.  It seems each space/recruit has allocations.

If the LCIS seems closed, it will open up again later, maybe a Fall BMQ if the Summer is full. The CFRC should be able to estimate this.


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## shado_wolf

SEP is the subsidised education plan

Basically I‘ll go to Northern Alberta Institute of Technology (NAIT) for 2 years taking the electronics engeneering program.  I have to take basic either this summer or next while on break from school.  I‘ll be paid a privates wage while at school.  I‘ll get raises as they are due, qualify for benefits and everything else.  After graduating I‘ll become a corporal and move up to Specialists pay.  Advantages being I don‘t have to leave home other than 10 weeks for basic and I‘ll reach the rank and pay of coporal in a little over 2 years rather than almost 4.

this answers the question of patience and waiting for LCIS to open. This course starts in Sept.

Dylan


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## shado_wolf

Have any of you heard of Fire Control Systems Technicians?

The recruiter mentioned that this position may be opening up soon.  Might be an answer for those of us interested in computers and the army.

Dylan


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## Dire

that has to do with Firefighting within the army..


A few months ago my buddy and I went up too the recruiter to find out what we could do.

My buddy is a fireman (volenteer) right now in the civy world and he asked about that MOC.

The Recruiter told him his civy firemen training would not help him to get in and that they pick that MOC within the army. (which confuses me since the same recruiter told me it was open and if I had an intrest I should apply)

anyhow it has nothing to do with computers


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## shado_wolf

Um  that is what I thought which is why I didn‘t even bat an eyelash so to speak when the recruiter mentioned it when I handed in my app.

Now I finally took the time to read into it and this is from the CF Army page.

"The Fire Control Systems Technicians are electronic/optronic specialists dedicated to supporting the Land Force and other CF elements. They are responsible for the maintenance and modification of electrical, electronic, optical and precision mechanical equipment. Electrons and photons are second nature to these soldiers.

Related civilian occupations

Electronic Engineering Technician/Technologist 
Electro-Mechanical Technician 
Surveillance/Thermal Equipment Technician 
Automated-Processing Repair Technician 
Television Repair Technician 
Assembler-Electronic Equipment 
Electric Truck Servicer (Forklifts) 
Air Conditioner Repair Technician 
Survey Instrument Technician 
Optical/Optronic Technician 
Laser Equipment Technician "

Army Web Page Description FCS TECH 

Now how stupid will I look to call in and change my choices to LCIS TECH, ATIS TECH, FCS TECH?  Already phoned in and changed it to ATIS from COMM RSCH.


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## Dire

Since I got my MCSE/MCSE I want to stick with COMM research because that is the only MOC that deals with Computer Network Administrator/security which I really want to get into but there are no IT jobs in Vancouver besides joining the army   

I only picked ATIS and LCIS incase I don‘t get into COMM Research


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## Hookflash

I am thinking of joining the CF with LCIS tech as my #1 choice of occupation (followed by Sig Ops and Commicator Research, I guess).  The problem is, I am turning 24 in Sept. and have forgotten much of what I learned in high-school.  Also, I don‘t actually have my grade 12 diploma (strangely, I have my grade 12 advanced math with an average score of 97%, but no English 12).  Will this be a problem?  Do they give "refresher coarses" in high-school math during LCIS tech training?  Thanks


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## Galadriel

My husband‘s an LCIS Tech and says they will teach you EVERYTHING you need to know on your POET course and not to worry about that part.  It‘s good to have a background in math/physics etc because of the work involved but English isn‘t a requirement at first.  Once you get the rank of MCpl and higher, English skills will be further developed as you will be expected to write PER/PDR‘s and such, though it will be at the discretion of your higher ups whether or not to load you on those type courses.

As for whether or not it will prevent you for being ELIGIBLE for the trade, I can‘t say, all they asked me was whether I had University Prep Math, nothing about English at all and I qualified for LCIS,though I chose Sig Op as my first choice and that‘s the MOC they offered me.

I was also told and know from talking to several people awaiting occupational transfers that there‘s a substantial wait (up to a year) for MOC trades training for LCIS, so be prepared for that as well.

Good Luck to you


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## Hookflash

Galadriel, thanks for your reply.

When you qualified for LCIS Tech, did you have your grade 12 physics?  Also, had you completed your Math 12 recently enough that you actually remembered most of it?  I don‘t actually have my grade 12 physics, and I completed my Math 12 about 6 years ago.

Sig Ops sounds like a very interesting career (from what I‘ve heard on this site).  What sort of background did you need for that?  Perhaps I‘d be better off going that route if LCIS Tech is going to be out of my reach.

Thanks


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## Galadriel

I do have grade 12 physics but it‘s been so long since I graduated highschool (10 years) that I‘m not sure I could even tell you what an electron is anymore   

I have some University and a two year diploma for PC Technician as well as six years of experience in building and repairing computers. That‘s mainly why I thought LCIS might be the trade I‘d pick, essentially the same thing really only different equipment.  I chose Sig Op because after you spend a a bit of time in you can start to specialize in the computer aspect of things (so I‘ve been told) such as network administration and computer comms networks and such, of course, NOT being allowed to repair a piece of equipment that‘s broken, even if I‘m qualified to do so as a civi, that might be frustrating in the long run.   

The CF is currently in the process of implementing a new system called Mozart (spelling??) which would mean that anyone who wanted to become an LCIS tech or a Lineman, would first have to spend one term as a Sig Op to become familiar with the equipment and such.  In theory this will cut down on the number of LCIS techs that are not qualified to do thier jobs because of inexperience. That‘s actually part of the reason I wanted to go Sig Op, I know that in a few years if I really don‘t like it, I can remuster into LCIS and have loads (hopefully) of experience on the comms equipment.

Either are great trades, I‘m sure you‘ll do well no matter which career you choose.  Ask the recruiter about it and if you qualify for them both on the aptitude test then go for whichever tickles your fancy at the time.     

Sorry for being so long winded, I‘m trying to avoid making dinner


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## klumanth

As an LCIS Tech, you can also spend time on the computer side of things.  I know many LCIS Techs who are computer technicians (A+ stuff), Computer Network technicians and Administrators(MCSE stuff) and UNIX administrators.  Of course if you get posted to a battalion, you will probably only do radio stuff.  It‘s a matter of choosing the right posting.


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## bossdog

I'm looking for a copy of the LCIS Tech logo \ badge. I'm sure it's an unofficial logo but I would appreciate it if anybody could direct me to a copy of it.


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## Bert

I'm not exactly sure of your context but check this site out:

http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/commelec/school/cfsce_e.htm


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## bossdog

I've already been there, the CE Museum and various other sites. It's the logo that LCIS techs use on their 5's for t-shirts and hats. Like I said, it's unofficial but it's out there.


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## GerryCan

My brother is currently in the midst of joining the army and is between a few different trade choices.
 He has a college degree with computers, not exactly what to do with them, but I was wondering if there is a signing bonus for LCIS Tech.
 I looked at the DND site and it doesn't exactly outline the signing bonuses for each specifiic trade.
Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## Tracker

Signing bonus' change constantly so they are not listed on the website, call the nearest CFRC or det and ask what the current status is.  I believe there is a det in Pembrooke.


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## bossdog

It's actually caled a recruiting allowance. Last I checked this was the break down:

Post Secondary Education
$10,000

Industry Work Experience and Certifications
$20,000 ($10G now, and the other $10G in 12 months)

Previous military experience (QL5)
$20,000 ($10G now, and the other $10G in 12 months)

This only applies to under strengthed trades which I beleive LCIS is. This money is also a taxable allowance. You can not combine the allowances either and are only entiled to them if they are offered.


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## meni0n

I believe they give 10k to  QL3 sigops. At least that's what I heard.


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## bossdog

I came back in with a QL3, never got a thing. That was just a rumour. 

There is a CANFORGEN and CFAO out about the whole thing.


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## GerryCan

Yeah I talked to my brother, his recruiting officer is Air Farce and has no clue and hasn't given him a straight answer.
Thanks for the info though guys, I'll keep looking into it further.
Cheers


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## 227representin

Do you need Grade 12 - No, but it helps.  POET will weed you out if you struggle with math.  Lets face it, electronics theory is math!
What do LCIS guys do? - anything and everything relating ot information systems, installation of various systems (security), radios, running cable, ANYTHING.

The biggest misconception is the LCIS is primarily computers.  Computers are such a smaller corner of the LCIS universe.  I have seen many potential LCIS candidates thinking the training will be simple "because I have A++,...or, worked on computers before".....or,.....some other computer related background experience, and not make it through POET.  Theories relating to capacitance, inductance, Ohms Law, Faradays Law, Lentz's Law, Standing waves - these are just some of the items that you have to learn before you are even loaded on to your LCIS apprentice training.

It is not easy, but it is rewarding as hell.  A real accomplishment.  I would encourage anyone to try.


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## Shadowhawk

Hey Biggie,

I'm an ATIS Tech ... What do you need to know?


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## SigPigs

Oh man there is so much MIS- in formation in this thread. I wish people who don't know what hey are takling about wouldn't post. 
I have 17 yrs as an LCIS tech. What we call ourselves now, as it was RAD tech. 
I have spoken with the 227 career manager and our trade is not under strength, so there probably are NOT any bonus programs to recruit right now. But you never know.
Employment? Well you can do so many things it's crazy, that's why I like this trade. You can work with computers, radios, satellite systems, audio visual eqpt, PA systems, pull CAT 5 through hallways, telephone PBX's, dig holes in the ground with infantry, work on vehicle comms suites, HF gateawy systems, control tower systems. ( Not much anymore possibly). I have worked with 250KW transmitters down to milliwatt microwave systems and tactical comms and now I maintain telephone systems for HQ. There is quite a bit of that these days providing voice support, but also there are IP phones, so back to computers. 
If you go LCIS you are going to roll the dice on what you are going to work on. If you want variety, sign up baby.


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