# Swords



## goodform (4 Sep 2006)

I did a search and found a couple of topics on swords. from those I have two useful links:

http://www.solingen-swords.com/produkte/saebel/gb/index.html
http://www.williamscully.ca/gallery/swords?page=1

I also know that you can buy from the 2RCR online kit shop. I curious to know if there are any other manufacturers or retailers I can look at, or if anything can be found cheaper, as $800 or 950 euros is a bit more than I'd hoped to spend.


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## rwgill (4 Sep 2006)

I will ask a friend of mine where he got his.  It is a "blank" infantry pattern sword.  Blank meaning that there is no cypher engraved, it is attached with screws.  This allows a new cypher to be attached, should anything change.  The blade is etched, but again, no cypher.  He paid around $400.  It is a great "knock-off"!


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## geo (4 Sep 2006)

A cypher attached with screws?

  yetch!

If you are an officer in any unit, the swords are provided for ceremonial occasions.

Solingen swords give you good value for your dollar....

If you want to mount it for display, the last thing you want to do is doint it on the "cheap".... you'll kick yourself thereafter.....

(You might try ebay)


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## jranrose (4 Sep 2006)

http://www.messdress.com/ishop/820/shopscr694.html
Wilkinson's also made military swords


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## geo (4 Sep 2006)

Wilkinsons is the "gold standard"
Solingen swords are a good second choice..............


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## Trinity (4 Sep 2006)

Army Outfitters has made swords on numerous occaisions

I know he just sold 13 of them to the CF in the last month and they were 
trying to get more.  

My suggestion is contact them.  

(647) 436-0876


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## Teddy Ruxpin (4 Sep 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Wilkinsons is the "gold standard"
> Solingen swords are a good second choice..............



Alas, Wilkinson has stopped making swords (and are owned by a US-based multinational).  They ceased production about this time last year.   I managed to get my hands on a QEII 1912 pattern sabre a few years back.


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## rwgill (6 Sep 2006)

Sorry LeGars, Just noticed that you are CIC.  

If you are looking for yourself, depending on what you are wearing, you have 2 different patterns of swords.  If you are in regular DEUs then it would be the infantry pattern sword.  If you are wearing a kilt, then it would be a basket hilted sword.  IMHO, don't bother with a sword.  You can change units many times.

If you are looking for the Cadet Corps, then you can find the basket hilted swords on eBay, for under $50 USD.  They are cheap, so you won't have to worry about some cadet pretending to be Rob Roy or William Wallace.  If it breaks, oh well.  The cadet could work off the money in no time.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Scottish-BASKETHILT-CLAYMORE-BROADSWORD-MSRP-90-00_W0QQitemZ150029427091QQihZ005QQcategoryZ43340QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## DG-41 (6 Sep 2006)

An officer should own his own sword.

A good place to look are antique/militaria shows. There's a lot of crap out there, but sometimes you find something special.

My sword is an 1899 pattern calvary sabre with stamps from the RCD and the Fort Garry Horse. It might have made it to the Boer War (right time, right unit) but there's no way to tell for sure.

I had a belt made for it, and it has been my parade sword ever since. I got married in this sword. 

The best part? $300 at the Charlottetown Military Show.

DG


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

Can you post a photo?

Next question; is it a Cavalry Sabre or a Cavalry Sword?  The RCD have used Swords, not Sabres.

I am interested in the engravings and perhaps if you have a Ser./Regt'l No. stamped on it somewhere.  The No. may indicate who it may have belonged to.


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## geo (6 Sep 2006)

Hmmm....
If it has a reg't serial number, then this was a piece of kit that went "walkies" at the last DA verification (Eek) unless of course it was presented to a historic member of the Reg't...


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmm....
> If it has a reg't serial number, then this was a piece of kit that went "walkies" at the last DA verification (Eek) unless of course it was presented to a historic member of the Reg't...



I think most Regt'l QMs 'lost' their swords in the late 1930's - early 1940's, along with the disappearance of the Horse.  As is normally the case, no one forsaw the need for them anymore, even for those ceremonial occassions, such as parades.  We now had newer, more 'modern' weapons.      ;D


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## geo (6 Sep 2006)

point taken........
who knew we would be going to Afghanistan.... who knew we'd need the swords again


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## a_majoor (6 Sep 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think most Regt'l QMs 'lost' their swords in the late 1930's - early 1940's, along with the disappearance of the Horse.  As is normally the case, no one forsaw the need for them anymore, even for those ceremonial occassions, such as parades.  We now had newer, more 'modern' weapons.      ;D



So that's what happened to the pikes! I once saw an issue sword from the WWI period which was a true gem; stamped steel handguard, bakalite handle and a blade without any engraving or markings at all (except for what looked like a proof mark near the hilt). Alas, my wallet was very light that day.....


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## army outfitters (13 Nov 2006)

Le Gars said:
			
		

> I did a search and found a couple of topics on swords. from those I have two useful links:
> 
> http://www.solingen-swords.com/produkte/saebel/gb/index.html
> http://www.williamscully.ca/gallery/swords?page=1
> ...


2 RCR buys there infantry pattern swords from me as I am the rep for WKC in Germany here in Canada. If you need swords let me know. You can find me via my web site at www.armyoutfitters.ca


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## smokeydude (8 Jan 2007)

Hey Everyone,
  
  Some of you people were asking about sword makers.  There is also Coghlin and Upton who has CF swords.  He deals alot to DND I believe he finished a shipment last year of something like 200 swords to them.  Anyways, up to you guys if u wanna check him out or not, just thought I'd throw that company out there too! 
 http://coghlinandupton.com/  is his website.   He doesn't have any of the swords in the online catalogue, yet, but he definatetly has them, and he also makes belts and all that jazz.  Good Luck! Cheers!


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## ModlrMike (9 Jan 2007)

I'd love to lay my hands on a cutlass, as this was the traditional wpn of the Petty Officer before the standard CF sword pattern was introduced. It would be nice to add this to my retirement collection.


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## Al_729 (21 Feb 2007)

I'm not 100% sure if this is the best thread to post this question in, but I couldn't find any others on swords.  It seems from what I've read that officers are allowed to choose their own swords- is this correct? Or is there certain types or makes of swords that officers in certain regiments must adhere to? The reason I ask is I have in my possession a sword which my great-Grandfather had when he was an infantry officer in WWI, this sword was passed to my Grandfather who was in the armoured corps and later RCEME in Korea. Now that I am finishing up my DEO application I'd love to carry this sword once I am comissioned.

Cheers


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## goodform (21 Feb 2007)

Al_729,
An officer may have their own sword but, it must be of a pattern approved for their particular branch or group. There are half a dozen (off the top of my head) patterns of sword in the CF. If you look at some of the links preceding this post, you can see what fits where.

rwgill,
I joined the local regt. so perhaps the info about me being CIC was out of date, looking to get an honest to God basket hilted claymore.


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## medaid (21 Feb 2007)

Yup there are differences in swords. There are artillery pattern officer swords, armoured ( Cavalry) pattern officer swords Navy Officer Pattern swords, air force pattern officer swords and lastly the infantry pattern officer swords. Now, from my understanding everyone else in the army who does NOT have a specific sword, ie. arty, cavalry, carries the generic infantry patter officer swords. The one currently in use is the 1879 Infantry Pattern Officer Sword by all units in the CF with the exception of those above mentioned swords and the highland basket hilt sword  hope that helps!


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## Teddy Ruxpin (21 Feb 2007)

Al_729 said:
			
		

> I'm not 100% sure if this is the best thread to post this question in, but I couldn't find any others on swords.  It seems from what I've read that officers are allowed to choose their own swords- is this correct? Or is there certain types or makes of swords that officers in certain regiments must adhere to? The reason I ask is I have in my possession a sword which my great-Grandfather had when he was an infantry officer in WWI, this sword was passed to my Grandfather who was in the armoured corps and later RCEME in Korea. Now that I am finishing up my DEO application I'd love to carry this sword once I am comissioned.
> 
> Cheers



Once you're in a unit, ask permission to carry it.  Given its history, I would be shocked if you were told "no".


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## geo (21 Feb 2007)

Cavalry units have sabers, Highland units have Claymores & the Arty units have the wire hilt.  Navy swords & Oirforce swords are another thing altogether BUT Infantry pattern swords are, by default, the basic standard for all others....

Hope that the silver finish is in relatively good shape

The old royal cipher will be a conversation piece...


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## Yrys (22 Feb 2007)

You may be interested to know that people around the SCA
(Society for Creative Anachronism)  use/make/sell/play with swords.

http://www.sca.org/

But I don't think you will be interested in their sword, even if copies
of medieval sword are cheaper . But from a civy point of view, watching 
there (?) fights was amazing.



> The SCA is an international organization dedicated to researching and recreating the arts
> and skills of pre-17th-century Europe.Members, dressed in clothing of the Middle Ages and
> Renaissance, attend events which may feature tournaments, arts exhibits, classes, workshops,
> dancing, feasts, and more.


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## geo (22 Feb 2007)

Have seen many unit swords with all sorts of nicks and scrapes on the blade.... swordfights between subalterns in the mess, late at night.... oh dear, what can we do?


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## Yrys (22 Feb 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> oh dear, what can we do?



Competitions?  ;D


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## geo (22 Feb 2007)

If you're the RQMS, you want to fine the buggers (aka drunken sots)


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## Yrys (22 Feb 2007)

Or you could promote competitions only for the sobber, trying 
to get it hip to sword and win event ... so it
will be less attractive to drink and sword...

(civy idea)


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## Pinto (22 Feb 2007)

Le Gars said:
			
		

> I also know that you can buy from the 2RCR online kit shop. I curious to know if there are any other manufacturers or retailers I can look at, or if anything can be found cheaper, as $800 or 950 euros is a bit more than I'd hoped to spend.



You can also get them at the RMC Club Kit Shop; they also have Air Force, Navy, Artillery and Cavalry Patterns, as well as the basic "Infantry" pattern.

http://www.rmcclub.ca/GiftShop/Swords/Swords.htm

You don't save money over the RCR kit shop; if you are an ex-bud, they match the price, otherwise they charge you $80 more.

Cheers!


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## Al_729 (22 Feb 2007)

Thanks for the replies.  I suppose I'll have to figure out exactly what kind of sword I have and what the eventual unit I'm posted to allows. Would some of the preceeding links on this thread be the best place to contact regarding the make and style of my sword?


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## a78jumper (22 Feb 2007)

I would contact the RMC kitshop for your requirements; as mentioned earlier they have access to all patterns, where as the RCR is only likely to stock the Infantry one. My sword is the Infantry pattern which is pretty well the one in standard ie generic use in the CF. At the time I bought it I had the choice of a Wilkinson @ $1000+ or a Sollingen at about 1/3 the price.  So went with the German model and have been very happy with it. Mainly used to cut wedding cakes these days!
What really got anal was no one could seem to make up their mind what kind of acorn to accessorize it with; RMC was the standard white leather one, then I had a gold braided one put on for some parade with the PPCLI as I recall, then later the Adjt in the Svc Bn insisted I go back to the white acorn as I was going to show up the rest of the officers who were parading with "borrowed" RMC swords, with you guessed it the white acorn. In the process destroyed the $50 braided one removing it. Greatcoats on/greatcoats off LOL
If there is an $80 savings being an ex cadet, get one of us to buy it for you.


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## George Wallace (22 Feb 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Cavalry units have sabers, Highland units have Claymores & the Arty units have the wire hilt.  Navy swords & Oirforce swords are another thing altogether BUT Infantry pattern swords are, by default, the basic standard for all others....
> 
> Hope that the silver finish is in relatively good shape
> 
> The old royal cipher will be a conversation piece...



In the Canadian Army, it is a Cavalry Sword.   (Having been "corrected" in the past by old "Horse Soldiers".)   ;D 

Al_729

The sword you have will probably pass muster.  As was noted, the most common sword now used by the whole CF is the 1879 Infantry Pattern Officer's Sword.

From A-AD-265-000/AG-001

CHAPTER 1

*SWORDS AND PISTOLS - CEREMONIAL OCCASIONS*

15.  The following swords are provided for use as required:

     a.  navy officer pattern, for use by navy officers;

     b.  universal pattern (infantry), for use by army members and navy NCM;

     c.  air force pattern, for use by all air force members; and 

     d.  flag/general officer's scimitar, issued only for use by the Chief of the Defence Staff. 

16.  Approved branch/regimental patterns of swords may be worn as optional items by army members.  Sword belts and slings shall be the CF standard pattern or an approved regimental pattern as an optional item.  The belt shall be fastened by a waist buckle displaying either the CF or, as an optional item, a branch or regimental device.

17.  CF standard pattern sword belts are equipped with slings, metal furnishings and a hook to suspend the scabbard when worn outside of the jacket.  The belt is held in position on army and air force jackets by removable waist hooks inserted into two slots, which are located at the waist line on the jacket side seams (see Figure 3-6-1).  The sword belt is worn under the navy jacket at all times, and may be worn under the army jacket by branches/regiments, in accordance with branch/regimental customs.


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## George Wallace (22 Feb 2007)

a78jumper said:
			
		

> ..... In the process destroyed the $50 braided one removing it. Greatcoats on/greatcoats off LOL
> ......



 ???

What kind of method did you use to attach it?  Should it not have been an easy means of just slipping it through a loop to attach/detach it?  Or was it from the gold braid having a "memory" of being fixed on the sword for so long that the process of removing it cracked the threads?

Just a note to anyone who has a sword:  Never store it for a long period of time inside of the scabbard, or it will collect condensation and rust.


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## geo (22 Feb 2007)

If your Great granddad was an Infantry officer, then the chances are .... it is an infantriy pattern sword.

http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/infantrysword.html


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## niner domestic (22 Feb 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> Just a note to anyone who has a sword:  Never store it for a long period of time inside of the scabbard, or it will collect condensation and rust.



You mean like this George? 

This is a Wilkinson highland dancing sword, which belonged to my mother and one that I used as a kid to dance with. Sadly it was left in storage for numerous years and this is what happened to it.  I've been looking for a someone to repair it but I loathe to have it ruined so I've been reluctant to send it out.  So if anyone has an experience with a sword maker/refurbisher, let me know.  Thanks


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## medaid (22 Feb 2007)

I recently found these places that sell replica swords, now, honestly, what are some of your opinions on these? For a quarter of the price of Wilkinsons, I can get a decently made sword for parades... I dont know what do you think?


http://www.thingsmilitary.com/products/1897_Pattern_Infantry_Officer_s_Sword-251-20.html
http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords2.htm scroll down a number of other swords and you'll see the 1897
http://www.williamscully.ca/productdetail.php?productid=491071SWINO last but not least the $1000 something dollars one


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## Yrys (22 Feb 2007)

I presume it take more skill to repair one then to make one.

Good luck.


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## George Wallace (22 Feb 2007)

niner domestic said:
			
		

> ...........  I've been looking for a someone to repair it but I loathe to have it ruined so I've been reluctant to send it out.  So if anyone has an experience with a sword maker/refurbisher, let me know.  Thanks



It can be done, but it is very expensive.  It will depend on the value (not necessarily monetary) that you place on it.  There are people who have the skills to 'replate' it.  Unfortunately I don't know any, but remember someone in the RCD, the 2i/c or Adjt, looking into to it and deciding it was too expensive.


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## geo (22 Feb 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> http://www.thingsmilitary.com/products/1897_Pattern_Infantry_Officer_s_Sword-251-20.html
> http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords2.htm scroll down a number of other swords and you'll see the 1897
> http://www.williamscully.ca/productdetail.php?productid=491071SWINO last but not least the $1000 something dollars one


military heritage sword.... not current pattern, won't pass inspection.
Scully sword - always OK, but not always cheapest.
thingsmilitary sword... good price but, the hilt is rather plain and uninteresting...


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## medaid (22 Feb 2007)

Geo, there's the 1897 one the military heritage one, that one wont pass muster? I looked at all of them, but they all look pretty much the same to me  :-\

would the thingsmilitary sword be alright for parade purposes?


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## geo (22 Feb 2007)

Hmmm.... just checked again.... hadn't gone +/- all the way down to the bottom.

I see... was looking at the one at the top 1803 pattern - which is waaay off but

bottom one - 1897 model.... good to go....


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## medaid (22 Feb 2007)

thanks geo


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## Neill McKay (22 Feb 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I recently found these places that sell replica swords, now, honestly, what are some of your opinions on these? For a quarter of the price of Wilkinsons, I can get a decently made sword for parades... I dont know what do you think?



Hate to say it, but Wilkinson is out of the sword business.


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## a78jumper (23 Feb 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It can be done, but it is very expensive.  It will depend on the value (not necessarily monetary) that you place on it.  There are people who have the skills to 'replate' it.  Unfortunately I don't know any, but remember someone in the RCD, the 2i/c or Adjt, looking into to it and deciding it was too expensive.



I saw "dipped" swords over my years as a QM and they looked like hell. And they were redipped in chrome because of abuse, ie left in scabbard, or someone decided to play pirate after too many beers at the Change of Command Parade. Piss off, if you busted up a C7 or prior FN you' d have been charged.


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## a78jumper (23 Feb 2007)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> Hate to say it, but Wilkinson is out of the sword business.



Somehow I am not surprised, $1500 as mentioned prior seemed a lot of money in 1981 given my 2Lt wage upon commisioning was $1635 a month.


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## army outfitters (23 Feb 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> If your Great granddad was an Infantry officer, then the chances are .... it is an infantriy pattern sword.
> 
> http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/infantrysword.html


Hmmm, I have heard of these people, they do excellent work, In fact they bought out all the Wilkinson dies and are now producing swords of the Wilkinson pattern with a WKC logo. Oh wait I am the rep for WKC here in Canada that is why I heard of them before. I stock these swords and the sword slings. The RCR buy these from me and so do the RCD's(yes a different pattern) but hey I encourage you to keep looking for swords when they are right here in the proper pattern. But hey what do I know.


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## geo (23 Feb 2007)

Army Outfitters said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I have heard of these people, they do excellent work, In fact they bought out all the Wilkinson dies and are now producing swords of the Wilkinson pattern with a WKC logo. Oh wait I am the rep for WKC here in Canada that is why I heard of them before. I stock these swords and the sword slings. The RCR buy these from me and so do the RCD's(yes a different pattern) but hey I encourage you to keep looking for swords when they are right here in the proper pattern. But hey what do I know.



You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink from your bucket...


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## army outfitters (23 Feb 2007)

yes I know. I have learned that along time ago but hey if they buy it from the RCR kit shop or whatever they will still be buying it indirectly via me so whatever. Just pointing out a cheaper route that is more direct


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## medaid (23 Feb 2007)

how much are they from you Dave?


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## army outfitters (23 Feb 2007)

Infantry pattern are in stock of the Wilkinson pattern made in Germany by WKC. They are $1000 plus tax. They include a scabbard of course. Sharkskin grip with wire wrap. Proper 1897 pattern with the Canadian Coat of Arms.


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## medaid (23 Feb 2007)

honestly... its just a little pricey for me... unless we can work out a payment plan lol.


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## army outfitters (24 Feb 2007)

I don't have an issue with working with you on this if you are interested


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## geo (24 Feb 2007)

don't forget to add in a gold wire (or leather) knot.
(might as well get some kidd leather gloves too while you're at it)


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## army outfitters (24 Feb 2007)

Sword knots are also in stock. White leather gloves will be about 2 weeks


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## T.R.Hayward (24 Feb 2007)

Hello all,

Thank you for starting this thread, I have always had an interest in swords. Especially those of the Canadian military....

I have been attending a fencing club for a few years now, and would like to make a few comments regarding swordplay.

First of all, never engage in swordplay using live (sharp) blades.

Never engage in contact fencing without a proper fencing mask. The human face is terribly designed when it comes to swordplay, any errant strike near your face will likely end up being guided into your eye by the contours of your face.

A good swordsperson always tries to avoid contact between blades. Aside from being a sign of ignorance, it leads to the bad habit of attacking the opponent's blade, rather than the opponent. The random clashing of steel is poor form, and to be discouraged highly.

I would highly recommend joining a local fencing club. You will learn more than you ever expected. If you carry a sword you should know how to use it, in my opinion. Fencing is also a surprisingly good workout.

Start with a foil, you will pick up good habits and be able to surprise those who skipped directly to sabre. They tend to forget that their sword has a point.

If you are looking for a way to compete with swords, then perhaps you could set up a target cutting competition. See how many targets you can cut through in a certain time, or before your sword gets too dull. Slicing apples that are thrown at you or catching them on the point of your sword is another option.

These are just a few suggestions. I am civilian and have no experience with how the Canadian military handles training with swords. If I am out of line in any way then I apologize.

Best Wishes,

-Rick


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## medaid (24 Feb 2007)

Hi Rick! Thanks for that informative post! The CF no longer uses the sword as a weapon for its officers, and all of our swords are used purely for ceremonial purposes. I dont know about anyone else but I would rather refrain from dueling with swords with one of my fellow officers.   But who knows one of these days that tradition might just be revived and all of us officers and gentlemen/women may have to once again defend our honour! 

I do wan to look into fencing though. Looks like such a cool sport!


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## medaid (24 Feb 2007)

Army Outfitters said:
			
		

> I don't have an issue with working with you on this if you are interested



Thanks for that Dave, but I'm at a point in my career (YES Reservists have a 'career' too  ) where I'm sort of undecided to where it's going to lead me, that's why I'm trying to search for the best sword for the best price (read inexpensive) that I can parade with and not worry too much about the consequences if I decide what I'm going to do. I mean, it would really be counterproductive if I spent that much money on a Wilkonson just to have to switch to another sword.. ie. the Naval Officers Pattern right?  ;D

But once again thank you Dave. I do still want those gloves though!


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## goodform (24 Feb 2007)

MedTech,
Regarding training w/ sword, what about the mounted troop the Strathcona's have? I saw the tail end of their performance here in Vancouver at the PNE and, I was impressed. While this is a leaky arguement it goes to show we still have some real live trained-for-more-than-ceremonial sword wavers.


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## medaid (24 Feb 2007)

*shrug* I wouldnt know  never seen em. BUT I guess you could argue that, but in a war fighting sense, not really there is it?


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## geo (24 Feb 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Hi Rick! Thanks for that informative post! The CF no longer uses the sword as a weapon for its officers, and all of our swords are used purely for ceremonial purposes.



Drunken subbies have been known to draw the blade & tempt fate........
(that's all I will say)


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## medaid (24 Feb 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Drunken subbies have been known to draw the blade & tempt fate........
> (that's all I will say)



hehehehe US?! NEVER!!


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (24 Feb 2007)

GGHG in Toronto also has a Cavalry Sqn and do the same sort of "old school" cavalry training that the Strathcona Mounted Troop does:

http://www.maharaj.org/cavalry.shtml


Agreed with the post above, fencing is a good sport to work on mind, reflexes and aggression.  When you move from foil through epee to sabre it really becomes 'whole body' combative.


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## GGHG_Cadet (5 Mar 2007)

I have a question about damage to my cadet corps' sword. When it is out of the scabbard it has a funky smell, I have no clue as to what it is but I think it is coming from the scabbard itself. As well there is some damage to the blade, I don't really know how to describe it so I've attached some pictures. 

Does anybody know what could be causing the smell and does anybody know what the damage to the blade is from? Any help would be appreciated.


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## frist one (5 Mar 2007)

You should never leave a sword in scabbard. In you must oiled it once in wild. The smell is humidity that starting rotten your scabbard.The blade is been damage by the humidity in your scabbard.


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## GGHG_Cadet (5 Mar 2007)

Is there anything I can do to clean out the scabbard and fix the damage?


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## T.R.Hayward (5 Mar 2007)

Hello,

Too bad about your sword and scabbard....

This is just my opinion, but I'd see if I could get a new scabbard. An exact replacement if possible, perhaps your Quartermaster could assist?

As far as the blade goes, I personally don't mind a bit of honest wear. It looks like a decent polish would take care of most of it though. If you could talk a jeweller into hitting it with a buffer and some jeweller's rouge then I have no doubt it would throw light like a mirror once more.

Best Wishes,

-Rick


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## R.O.S (5 Mar 2007)

Seems like Oxidation. I have a few swords in my home. I use this metal cleaner that is good for jewelry (so it isnt tough, and you may have to reapply a few times to get your sword up to standard) that I got from Canadian Tire. This cleaner (its like a blue paste, comes in a pressurized bottle or a squeeze tube) will eliminate the oxidation. Make sure to clean it all off as oxidation creates a slow burning process on most metals which overtime results in rust. 

If you have noticed small little brown specs, that is rust beginning to formulat. However, the cleaner I metioned (sorry for not knowing the name of it, but Im sure if you gor to CT one of the emplyees will know) should remove the small rust spots. If that does not work, use rust remover (the light ones designed specifically for chrome, which will be found in the auto department in CT). 

After doing all that, apply oil and good luck  !


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## frist one (5 Mar 2007)

You should put you scabbard in a dry place for a week or so. You should use steel wool to clean the blade  then have your blade polish by some one in the knife world.Then get your self a can of renaissance wax in wax's your blade.That will keep the humidity off the steel. In just keep your scabbard dry place that will stop the smell.        mike


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## GGHG_Cadet (5 Mar 2007)

Thanks for all the tips. 

I am really fond of this sword, it is really quite nice. It is a cavalry pattern sword, marked Solingen, it has a really nice design on the blade and its got a nice sharkskin grip that is wrapped in gold wire. It has been with the corps for awhile, it was taken from our sister corps when we split from them in the 70s so I don't know how long it has been around. It has been passed from one RSM to the next, always in its scabbard and I think in the same old bag too.

Luckily the damage is limited to the tip of the sword and there is none on or near the decorated part of the sword.

Oh and if it makes a difference, the funky smell smells quite a bit like old pennies.


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## T.R.Hayward (5 Mar 2007)

The coppery smell could be from the tanning process of the leather....

You might try sealing the scabbard in a plastic bag along with some baking soda. The kind that you put in your refrigerator. That might suck all the odour out.

It sounds like the sword itself will be fine.

Best Wishes,

-Rick


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## geo (6 Mar 2007)

don't use steel wool.... that will marr the surface / chrome finish of the blade

jewler's rouge is a good option to clean off the oxidation on the blade

musty smell - wet, moisture inside the sheath........ let it dry in the air, baking soda might work.... same as the odor eaters in your fridge...


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## SprCForr (6 Mar 2007)

You might try sealing it in plastic with a few silica gel dessicant packs to adsorb the moisture.


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## R.O.S (6 Mar 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> musty smell - wet, moisture inside the sheath........ let it dry in the air, baking soda might work.... same as the odor eaters in your fridge...



Sodium bicarbonate is a salt... so I would avoid applying it directly to the blade... unless it doesn't damage metal (but I just assume it may)


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## T.R.Hayward (8 Mar 2007)

The silica dessicant is a good idea for long-term storage of your sword and scabbard. Perhaps you might consider investing in a quality display case as well....


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## T.R.Hayward (8 Mar 2007)

I was wondering if anyone here had experience with fencing, or if any of the bases have a fencing class or club?

Just curious, fencing is one of my hobbies....

Best Wishes,

-Rick


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## geo (8 Mar 2007)

Fencing would prolly be more something done by the students at RMC Kingston or the CMR prep school in St Jean ....

But, am taling without really knowing - have not heard of fencing on any one base on this side of the continent.


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## Sloaner (8 Mar 2007)

I've done Fencing, Kendo, and Iaido.  8 Wing did Kendo the first couple of years I was there, but the sensei got posted out.  I had started fencing in Toronto on the base there but it moved out to a civilian club in Etobicoke after about 6 months.


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## JRBond (13 May 2013)

Necropost

On the topic of swords, I'm looking at getting one for a friend of mine as a wedding present. He's an MPO, does anyone know if they use infantry pattern or another one?


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## Zoomie (13 May 2013)

What uniform does he wear?

At close to $1,000 each - he must be a good friend.


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## dimsum (13 May 2013)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> What uniform does he wear?
> 
> At close to $1,000 each - he must be a good friend.



I remember being told the RCN ones are up to $1500.  Either way....very good friend indeed.


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## JRBond (14 May 2013)

He's army, and yes he is a very good friend.


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## Towards_the_gap (14 May 2013)

I thought this was the MP pattern?


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## George Wallace (14 May 2013)

Have a look here at Canadian Infantry Pattern Swords at Scully:

http://williamscully.ca/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=22669


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## JRBond (14 May 2013)

Perfect, thanks a lot.


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## bllusc (17 May 2013)

Military Heritage has just released a new 1897 Infantry pattern sword at a reasonable price.


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## 306FL306 (20 Aug 2018)

Do Medical Officers wear ceremonial swords?

If so, could anyone send me a link to the company that sells them?

Cheers!


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## CombatDoc (20 Aug 2018)

They do not wear swords.


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## GR66 (20 Aug 2018)

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> They do not wear swords.



Scalpel scabbards?


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## PuckChaser (20 Aug 2018)

GR66 said:
			
		

> Scalpel scabbards?



A very large ibuprofen dispenser.


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## RocketRichard (20 Aug 2018)

Curious as to what other officers don't wear swords besides M.O.'s and chaplains.


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## dapaterson (20 Aug 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> A very large ibuprofen dispenser.



What about the cepacol?


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## Blackadder1916 (20 Aug 2018)

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> They do not wear swords.





			
				RomeoJuliet said:
			
		

> Curious as to what other officers don't wear swords besides M.O.'s and chaplains.



I have, in years long past, been a participant and spectator of numerous parades on which Medical Officers (and other Medical Branch officers) wore swords.  The tradition according to Canadian Forces Medical Service: Introduction to its History & Heritage is:



> Bearing Arms
> 
> Although CFMS personnel are not combatants, they bear arms to protect
> their patients and themselves. Medical officers on parade may carry
> ...



In many of my above noted experiences of being on parade, we drew swords, including the doctors contrary to "tradition".  We just hadn't been told it was a tradition.

And to add.

There was a separate thread about this question.  The definitive answer is at https://army.ca/forums/threads/33487/post-252483.html#msg252483


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## RocketRichard (20 Aug 2018)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I have, in years long past, been a participant and spectator of numerous parades on which Medical Officers (and other Medical Branch officers) wore swords.  The tradition according to Canadian Forces Medical Service: Introduction to its History & Heritage is:
> 
> In many of my above noted experiences of being on parade, we drew swords, including the doctors contrary to "tradition".  We just hadn't been told it was a tradition.
> 
> ...


Thanks BA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gunner98 (21 Aug 2018)

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> They do not wear swords.



Traditions are just that.  Members of the CF Health Services have worn swords in the recent past as part of Remembrance Day, Freedoms of the City Parades and on Change of Command Parades in which I have participated. I cannot specifically remember a Medical Officer actually being on any of those parades.  If you do a Google Image search you will find images such as the one attached of the Nursing Officer in the vigil at a National Remembrance Day ceremony.  She has her sword drawn and 'at rest arms reversed'.


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## CombatDoc (21 Aug 2018)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Traditions are just that.  Members of the CF Health Services have worn swords in the recent past as part of Remembrance Day, Freedoms of the City Parades and on Change of Command Parades in which I have participated. I cannot specifically remember a Medical Officer actually being on any of those parades.  If you do a Google Image search you will find images such as the one attached of the Nursing Officer in the vigil at a National Remembrance Day ceremony.  She has her sword drawn and 'at rest arms reversed'.


Let me rephrase my original comment. According to “official tradition”, Medical Officers do not draw swords. Furthermore, the only time I have worn a sword was during BMOC when we were taught sword drill, despite having participated in numerous parades since then. Furthermore, if you do require a sword - such as a sentry for Remembrance Day - one will be provided to you. 

All that to say - to the OP, don’t buy a sword expecting that you’ll need it for parades. You won’t.


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## Blackadder1916 (21 Aug 2018)

The tradition of Medical Officers and swords.

From the Boer War to the end of the Cold War.

Apparently doctors of the 9th Field Hospital felt it appropriate to wear swords.








Hopefully, in the rather poor reproduction of a page from 4 Fd Amb's history, you can see the drawn sword of the CO (LCol Joe Kotlarz, MD) during the 1992 close-out parade of the unit.






  since it won't show up here, attached below


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Aug 2018)

I am very familiar with a certain Dr that does work for DND, helps our secret squirrels with medical training, etc. When he was on parade, he wore his sword and unsheathed it along with everyone else.


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## daftandbarmy (21 Aug 2018)

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> Let me rephrase my original comment. According to “official tradition”, Medical Officers do not draw swords. Furthermore, the only time I have worn a sword was during BMOC when we were taught sword drill, despite having participated in numerous parades since then. Furthermore, if you do require a sword - such as a sentry for Remembrance Day - one will be provided to you.
> 
> All that to say - to the OP, don’t buy a sword expecting that you’ll need it for parades. You won’t.



It's ironic that the Officers who probably do the most 'cutting' on the battlefield don't draw their cutlery when off of it


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## Pusser (28 Aug 2018)

Perhaps, the medical officers not drawing swords thing is as much as a myth as medical personnel not handling weapons?  At one point in the Royal Navy, surgeons actually carried a specific pattern of sword, unique to them.


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## Old Sweat (28 Aug 2018)

And for the completely off the wall crowd, I was a guest at the 2 RCHA change of command parade when Greg Ivey turned over the regiment to Dan Bobbitt. All the officers carried drawn swords except the RCEME officer who carried a chromed wrench complete with sword knot.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (28 Aug 2018)

It was a different era.

In 1979, the  naval reserve first year logistics OCDT's, made up of all female members in those days, walked unto the Friday's Ceremonial Division with fixed teddy bears attached to their FN's bayonets ... to great applause, a red faced parade officer marching them off at double quick march and a scrambling parade CPO rushing to delay the arrival of the reviewing officer.  ;D

That was only my first experience with 'stuffed animals".

Many years later, when I was OIC of  HTS St. Croix, I found on my first formal rounds of 1 and 2 messes, set aside for female personnel, that every bunk was properly made in naval fashion, but with a stuffed animal on each pillow. I pointed out that I had no problems with the keeping of stuffed animals in the mess but that, as required by the standards, if they were not tucked under the blanket properly they had to be secure so they could not possibly float free in case of flooding (that's the rule even though if 1 and 2 messes ever flooded, you are already in deep trouble). On my next inspection, every stuffed animal in sight was hanging from a noose over its respective pillow.   ;D

Even in the military we can't mess with strong women.  :nod:


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## Gunner98 (29 Aug 2018)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Perhaps, the medical officers not drawing swords thing is as much as a myth as medical personnel not handling weapons?  At one point in the Royal Navy, surgeons actually carried a specific pattern of sword, unique to them.



I witnessed the first discussion concerning the mounting of GPMGs on the Bison Ambulances for Afghanistan.  Once the Commander and Surgeon General received verified reports that the Taliban thought the Red Cross on other countries' ambulances made a wonderful aiming point for RPGs, they approved the appropriate armament (and pre-deployment range training) to protect medical personnel and their patients.


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## Pusser (29 Aug 2018)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> And for the completely off the wall crowd, I was a guest at the 2 RCHA change of command parade when Greg Ivey turned over the regiment to Dan Bobbitt. All the officers carried drawn swords except the RCEME officer who carried a chromed wrench complete with sword knot.



Sadly, I fear we have lost our institutional sense of humour about stuff like that.  This would have the makings of a fine tradition if enough folks get behind it.


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## jeffb (29 Aug 2018)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Sadly, I fear we have lost our institutional sense of humour about stuff like that.  This would have the makings of a fine tradition if enough folks get behind it.



That was only in 2013. The only issue was that the wrench was ridiculously heavy to perform sword drill with so the Tech Adjt was very resistant to using it at the next CoC a year later.


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## dapaterson (29 Aug 2018)

jeffb said:
			
		

> That was only in 2013. The only issue was that the wrench was ridiculously heavy to perform sword drill with so the Tech Adjt was very resistant to using it at the next CoC a year later.



So you're saying RCEME officers need remedial PT?


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## jeffb (29 Aug 2018)

Well I'm not, NOT saying that but in fairness, the thing was probably about 20lbs. That's pretty heavy to hold in the hot sun with one arm.


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## dapaterson (30 Aug 2018)

jeffb said:
			
		

> Well I'm not, NOT saying that but in fairness, the thing was probably about 20lbs. That's pretty heavy to hold in the hot sun with one arm.



I have heard that the senior serving RCEME officer doesn't like it when you call this the RCEME home station...







#NDHQjokes


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## Blackadder1916 (30 Aug 2018)

How far back does a branch have to go to claim a tradition?  At one time the Other Ranks of the RAMC (and probably also the CAMC) were equipped with "sidearms" as normal equipment.  Their arms were the 1852 pattern Lancaster Sword-Bayonet.  While it may have been somewhat antiquated as a defensive weapon, the arming of those who didn't need to a contribute a rifle in a defensive line were often solely issued with an edged weapon.  When they paraded, the sword-bayonet would be drawn and at the "carry" while RAMC officers would not draw the sword.  But, about 110 years ago with the elimination of the sword-bayonet as standard equipment, so too did that particular drill for the RAMC.  The use and drill movements are well shown in this early moving picture of a sword-bayonet armed guard of honour from University Company, Royal Army Medical Corps Volunteers "presenting" on the arrival of King Edward VII at Aberdeen University in 1906.

https://youtu.be/uD8uwhXdrXs?t=805

And in a contemporary issue of the Journal of the RAMC, an officer commiserates the loss of an interesting ceremonial.

https://jramc.bmj.com/content/jramc/8/1/1.2.full.pdf


> NOTES FROM DELHI.-Major W. Tibbits, R.A.M.C., writes (October 25, 1906):
> "I feel sure it is a subject of regret to all ranks of the Corps, whether regular, militia,
> or volunteer, that the wearing of side-arms by all ranks below that of Staff-Sergeant is
> to be discontinued. *It was pleasant to see in some of the illustrated papers a photograph
> ...


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