# Medical Rejection: How to Appeal?  [Merged]



## Andyd513

Hey guys, I just completed my physical, successfully completing my recruitment process except for a blood test result which I now have and am dropping off with the required physician paperwork tomorrow.

Out of curiosity, how long does it take to get cleared by the medical review board after everything is in order? After I‘m cleared I will be set to be sworn in and am worried about the reserve unit I‘m applying for filling up soon.


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## Yes Man

How come you have to do a blood test? No one asked me to do one.


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## Andyd513

It was due to some medication I was finishing during the recruitment process, blood test came back normal so I should be cleared to get in as soon as CFB Boredon Medical Review Board clears me.


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## koach

The average time for a medical to come back from Borden is 3 weeks depending on how busy they are.


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## Andyd513

Thanks for the info Koach!


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## venero

been allmost 8 weeks for me.


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## Andyd513

Any luck getting yours back yet Venero? Hope you‘ve been harrassing the CFRC/medical department about that.


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## venero

Nope not yet, All I can do is hope. I called them 3 days ago but all they could tell me was that they will call me if my medical comes back as a positive result to book my PT test and interview.


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## cathtaylor

I was told that the medical dept is extremely busy and not to expect anything for approx. 6-8 weeks.


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## buffboyali

Okay I comleted part 1of my medical examination and my file was put on hold due to my failure to qualify for infantry. I was wondering that when i go back to finish my medical would I have to do part 1 again. Like would I need to be drug tested, vision, and hearing tested again too?


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## GrahamD

Did you fail to qualify for infantry due to a medical condition?


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## buffboyali

No my vision was a V4 which didnt qualify for infantry. You need a v1-v3 to qualify for infantry.


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## Dreadnought

Today I received a letter from the recruiting medical officer saying that I did not meet the common enrolment standard required by both the regular and the reserve force. I will type the letter out and you guys can tell me what you think about it, I'm pissed off that they didnt say anything before.

This is how the letter goes....

Dear Mr.Phantha,

I have reviewed the medical records and accompanying your application to join the Canadian Forces.  Unfortunately, you do not meet the common enrolment standard required by both regular and reserve forces.  The documents indicate that you have had an allergic reactions to crab meat.  Accodingly, you have been assigned medical limitations.

Your case could be reconsidered if self-injectable epinephrine is not required and you have no furthur restrictions.  At the time you should have your allergist write to us stating the diagnosis, allergic symptoms(inlcuding timing of exposure) results of testing and of any treatment.  If you have been advised to carry self-injectable epinephrine your physician should specify the risk to your health if medication were unavailable.

The report should be sent to the Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre Winnipeg:  Attention Medical Section.  This report would have to be obtained at your own expense.

The current common enrolment medical standard ensures that all recruits can achieve high standards of fitness and endure prolonged periods of severe mental and physical stress.  Military personnel work in extreme climatic conditions and diverse environments including isolated areas where little medical support is unavailable.  They may be exposed to food allergens without access to self-administered medication prescribed for systemic allergic reactions.

The Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre Winnipeg can advise you of the final decision concerning your application.


Now why on earth didnt they tell me to go see an allergist from the begining so that it would save me time on the decision?.......I had a little rash from eating some crab, and I don't even think it was from crab, I just assumed because I had just consume it prior to the rash.  This can't be serious enough to hinder my physical fitness or be detrimental to enduring prologned periods of severe mental and physical stress.  So after I get this allergist diagnosis does my medical have to go through the process again?  If so this is ridiculous.  It says that CFRC Winnipeg will have the final decision concerning my application...what does this mean?  That I have already been ruled out?  I thought I had a limitation to clear up.  Has anyone else had a similar instance because if they do not enrol me because of this silly allergy than they just lost a great potential officer recruit.  I hope that I don't have to go through that lengthy medical process again, I need to make other plans for my career and this is just something that I have no control over.

Just to give you guys a background of me...
Applied for Mars Officer in the reserve force
22 yrs old male
Currently a lifeguard going for distinction awards
Economics Major in Univeristy 3rd Year
I am so fit its not even fiunny and my medical situation which is excellent has never hindered my ability to do anything.  I was just being as honest as I could have been when I said I got a little rash when I consumed crab.  That was like ages ago like 4 years or so.  

For those that are reading I appreciate your input, I am so frustrated right now I had to share my experience.


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## beach_bum

I think the letter is pretty clear on why you were rejected, and very clear on what you need to provide in order to redress that.  I understand your frustration, but as the letter stated, there is a reason behind the CEMS.  If you truly feel that you either don't actually have an allergy, or, that it isn't severe at all, just go do what the letter says and your situation will be cleared up.


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## Butters

Sorry to hear about that, it must suck . I thought that I was going to get one of those letters also because I have pollen hayfever allergic reactions... I was pretty much convienced that they were going to reject me because of this cause after all infantry soliders work outdoors and in the summer time there is all that stuff everywhere. I surprised when i got a call saying, "We're just informing you that your medical came back and you're good to go, now all we need to do is wait for the board to sit and discuss."


Speaking of the board does anyone know when the next one is? Regualr force Infantry?


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## 48Highlander

That's bloody ridiculous.  Either the CF is planning on switching to crab-meat IMP's, or we need to start drug testing the recruiters.

There's people with all sorts of alergies in the CF, so don't let this discourage you.  Yours seems totaly insignificant, just do what they requested and there's no reason why you shouldn't be accepted.


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## DjC

They won't let you in for something like that? Damn, thats terrible. Lord knows the Canadian army needs all it can get and here they are not letting people in for something like this. I ran into problems myself at the medical examination. I had to have my knees checked out because they were kind of deformed and also my heart because I occasionally got a chest pain. Luckily for me, all was well and I got in. All I can say is fight this and do what you can to get in.


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## Dreadnought

Thanks for reading guys but you what I am going to fight this and do what the letter says.  Because I invested all that time before this.  It would be a shame if I didn't go all the way through.  This is very fishy business if you ask me.  This is seriously how people get discouraged though, I know they have policies but most institutions usually deal with them along the way.  The reason I am so frustrated is because I made a decision to want to join and it is taking so long that it's getting in the way of other goals I have like going on overseas exchange programs for school or looking for internships with different companies for the summer.  If this is just hanging in limbo what a waste because I have to wait to see if I would go off to BOTC in the summer and by the time I would have missed going to wine&cheese's and applying for exchange programs would already be closed and these things cost money. Why not go to these anyways? well I am but it's weird to be so interested in a program when you know its gonna be second place on the chopping block. You know I had 2% support to wanting to join the forces, I just want to serve and these bureaucratic policies definitely get in the way.


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## lostmuskrat

Fight what?
All they asked you was to provide them with details on what might or might not be a serious medical condition.  It might not seem serious to you, but that doesn't mean your possible allergy could not kill you.  You don't even know what you might be allergic to!  A lot of medicines have fish-related ingredients that can kill someone with a severe allergy, or prevent treatment in someone whose allergy is mild.  Your future doctors (within the CF or not) NEED to know if you might have a reaction to a drug you are being given.
It is also YOUR responsibility to give the medical authority ACCURATE health information.  You wouldn't believe the third degree I got over my childhood allergy to bee stings.  Of course keep trying to get in, but this letter is not the end of the road.  Go to a doctor, get tested, and put their doubts to rest.
Good luck, Dreadnought!


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## DrSize

God I should type mine up, I got rejected because i have too much muscle mass if you can believe that


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## white

DrSize said:
			
		

> God I should type mine up, I got rejected because i have too much muscle mass if you can believe that


Now that's one I haven't heard before, what did your letter say exactly?


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## putz

Hey I can understand this rejection stuff.  I got rejected because of a slight wheeze in my lung.  I wnet and got a pulmonary function study done it has now come back great so I resent in my app.  Hopefully this time it'll be okay (no asthma and lungs work fine!)


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## JBP

I had to go get checked out because of allergies also. Heck I am mildly allergic to like 100 things. They tested me with this little "needle" thingy that pokes you with like 50 needles at once, then they watch to see how your skin reacts. Then they know the degree to how allergic you are. I sent in the test results and I'm fine, sign in Dec 9th. Don't sweat this at all. Just do it and send it in ASAP.

Joe


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## mrosseker

Hey guys,
I'm kinda going through the same thing right now. During my application, the medic told me to go and get a letter from my doctor because I had asthma when I was younger, to make sure I wouldn't have any exercise induced attacks. So I did this, totally confident that I was fine, as I've played football since I was 12, and I play Super League rugby now. My application came back two and a half months later requiring a follow-up interview. On the front page of the health section, I had checked "yes" to the question about 'do you or have you ever had any kind of disease', and on the second page the medic wrote his report after he had listened to my lungs and read my doctor's review and that the asthma wouldn't be a problem in his opinion. 
So I go in for the interview, and the interviewer opens my application, and says "Oh, I see I am supposed to ask you about your asthma, but it looks as though all the information is here..." and he looks at me confused. I explain that I sent in my doctor's report with my application, and he says "Well, it looks like whoever received your application didn't even open it up and check the second page. How long have you been waiting for this to come back?" I say "Two and a half months." He apologizes, and says that he doesn't need to continue with the interview.

And then I go home and start waiting again.

Anybody ever heard of anything like this? Any idea what I should do next?
Thanks, Mike.


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## Butters

> Speaking of the board does anyone know when the next one is? Regualr force Infantry?


 Anyone  it's driving me up the wall not knowning because the sir at the RC doesn't know either (may sound strange but he didn't know). This well give me a general idea when I hope to be sworn in.


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## X Royal

Dreadnought: 
 There is a related thread "Allergies in the CF" on I believe pg. 3 in the recruiting forum you may want to read. The reason for concern is with some allergies such as seafood, bee and wasp stings ect. there is a possibility they may become much worse with each further exposure. Thats why they requested further testing to determine the situation. And yes there are people in the forces with allergies that require carrying an epi-pen but they would be on a medical category. But it is not likely they would process a application for someone to start on a category. Although they may not release a serving member they probally won't enrol someone in this situation. Same would also apply to diabetics. Medical conditions for serving members at times require a remuster.
Go ahead with the testing and hope for the best. If it is bad news at least you will have the proper knowledge of your situation which could possibly save your life.

Best Wishes


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## 48Highlander

Mrosseker:

You'll be fine.  I had/have mild asthma also.  At the time when I applied they weren't as stringent, so they never even asked me to see a doctor about it, the medic just accepted my statement that I hadn't had any asthma problems for 3 years or so.  They seem to have started getting more picky since then....what happened with you was probably just plain stupidity on someones part, but now that you've had the physical and they've gotten a letter from your doctor as well, you shouldn't have any more problems.


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## BDTyre

Is crab meat so prevalent in the Forces' food that it is even a problem?  Maybe I don't want to join after all... 

As for the asthma thing...don't get me started on that.


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## putz

Just out of curosity (this is a long one).... Whats the turn around time like when your medical closed your file but then you got the doctors note and additional information ettc.  My medical closed my file October 5 but I provided all the extra information in to the recruitment office on November 15th.  Before that it took me 3 1/2 months to hear anything from the medical.  Is it going to take this long again?  Also,  am I going to have to go through the whole application proccess again?  One recruiter said no (cause if the paperwork and security clearance are under a year then theres no need to redo if nothing has changed), and another one told me I'd have to go through it all again.  I know I'll have to do the physical again (no problem there!) cause mine was done almost 6 months ago.  I live in Edmonton if that matters at all and I'm going to try for infantry, combat eng., MP.  BTW my medical came back because of a slight wheeze ( I did a PFS and it came back excellent).  Last but not leasest what are my chances of my medical coming back good (my doctor provided all the reports and letter stating that I am in excellent health no employment rest. etc)?  This has been a lifelong dream for me and I can't seem to get straight answer anywhere.


PS I really hope that all this information isn't posted on another forum here cause then I'd feel like a real idiot!


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## BDTyre

Your medical won't go any faster the second time around.  The first time, mine took about 2 to 2 1/2 months; the second time it took 4 1/2 months.

I had to fill out another application form even though it had been less than a year, but the only thing I had to redo was the fitness test.


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## beyondsblue

Does V4 equal to -4.00?


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## dw_1984

I never really understood what the different V levels were.

I am -4.75, -4.00 (almost blind without glasses) and was classified V3 2 yrs ago when I went to CFRC.   @ that time I'd prolly be in the -3.00s somewhere.

edit...I think you need v1-v3 for any of the combat arms.


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## Tpr.Orange

that is correct dingbat.. hence the reason i was dropped from the combat arms...grrr....  :threat:


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## qor556

wow, i don't know what happened to me then... 4.75, 5.25 -- I think i remember it was determined by seeing a big "E" on the vision screen. I don't quite recall the method that was used to determine the V score, anyone remember?


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## dw_1984

It's basically read the letters off the wall.

Lol..."take off your glasses and read off the top line." my response....silence...


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## qor556

didn't you try squinting really hard?...usually works for me


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## dw_1984

With my eyesight...squinting doesn't do anything.


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## pi-r-squared

is there a difference between the medical board and the selection board?  and if so, if you are set for the selection board, does this mean that you've passed the medical board?


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## spenco

The medical boards and selection boards are completely different.  However you cannot get to the latter without clearing the former.  Your CFRC probably won't send your file to the selection boards until your medical has cleared.  Venero, the medical will take longer if you have any major outstanding issues, first they will be looked over by the MO at bordon, then if need be they will send the file to an appropriate specialist, this is where the wait begins because the CFRC's are not on the top of the priority list of the specialists.  Good Luck.


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## pi-r-squared

spenco said:
			
		

> The medical boards and selection boards are completely different.   However you cannot get to the latter without clearing the former.   Your CFRC probably won't send your file to the selection boards until your medical has cleared.   Venero, the medical will take longer if you have any major outstanding issues, first they will be looked over by the MO at bordon, then if need be they will send the file to an appropriate specialist, this is where the wait begins because the CFRC's are not on the top of the priority list of the specialists.   Good Luck.



In short, one would not be put to the selection board unless after receiving clearance from the med staff?


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## Love793

Koach said:
			
		

> The average time for a medical to come back from Borden is 3 weeks depending on how busy they are.



3 Weeks, where are you doing processing, Borden?

You are right about the delays, if they're busy it takes a while.


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## spenco

pi-r-squared said:
			
		

> In short, one would not be put to the selection board unless after receiving clearance from the med staff?



Yes, that is what I have been told repeatedly from the CFRC.


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## aspiring_recruit

the Doc at the CF RC said that he found nothing wrong with me and that he recommended Immediate enrollment, will this speed up my file at Borden? and are they still backed up 8 weeks as mentioned in a previous rep;y?


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## Butters

Mine medical only took 2 and a half weeks to come back.


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## Love793

aspiring_recruit said:
			
		

> the Doc at the CF RC said that he found nothing wrong with me and that he recommended Immediate enrollment, will this speed up my file at Borden? and are they still backed up 8 weeks as mentioned in a previous rep;y?



If the "Doc" at CFRC is recommending immediate enrollment, you're joining a Res Unit.  For Reserves, any one whom applied AFTER 1 Jun 04, is eligible for "conditional" enrollment, pending a successful competion of PT 1 and 2 of the medical.  Unfortunately, reg force apps must complete all 3 parts prior to enrollment.

If a reserve medical (post 1 Jun 04) has been sent away to RMO, a problem has arisen in PT 1 or 2 and requires a decision by the Recruiting Med O in Borden.  Unfortunately again, he is swamped with files.


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## Love793

Militia NCMs don't go to the selection boards.  It's up to the CO of the unit to hire the applicant.


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## aspiring_recruit

Thanx for the info Love, glad to hear I wont be waiting forever!!


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## McAllister

I was told to wait 2 months for medical too.  Am I notified when the medical review is finished?


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## edmonton

Looking for answers in regards to a letter i received from Ottawa today.

During my medical evaluation in Edmonton I honestly mentioned that in the past i have sustained ankle and shoulder injuries from rugby. Both of these injuries are now over 5 years old and do not in any way effect me physically.  I passed my fitness test with the instructor commenting that i performed extremely well (i'm a female applicant), and also passed the recruiting medical.  

Today i received a letter from the Recruiting medical officer in Ottawa stating that because of the above mentioned injuries I do not meet the common enrolment standard and medical limitations have been assigned, meaning I'm not eligable for reg or reserve forces.  I provided documentation earlier from my family doctor stating that i was physically fit and able and am now wondering where I go from here.  

Of course my career counsellor doesn't answer his phone and I haven't been able to speak to him yet, but I was wondering if anyone knows the procedure for something like this?  I know I am fit and do meet the standard, is there any way I can appeal this decision?


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## kincanucks

Go and talk to the PA or Med Tech that did your recruiting medical.   They can tell you if you have any recourse and sometimes the letter tells you if there is any recourse.   Your MCC can't help you so stop trying to contact him/her because until you meet the enrolment medical standards there is nothing they can do for you.. The physical is only part of the eligibility criteria along with the medical, CFAT, and background check.


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## edmonton

THANK YOU  Kincanuck for the information, greatly appreciated.

Would you happen to know if I can appeal medical limitations as an applicant?  My concern is that because the recruiting medical officer in Ottawa is an actual physician and the medical officer who performed my evaluation in Edmonton is not, that this letter may be a final decision as it makes no mention of appeal.  I understand that I should just ask these questions directly with the medic at the recruiting office, but the more i know before i go down there, the better equipped i will be to deal with what they have to say.


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## kincanucks

edmonton said:
			
		

> THANK YOU   Kincanuck for the information, greatly appreciated.
> 
> Would you happen to know if I can appeal medical limitations as an applicant?   My concern is that because the recruiting medical officer in Ottawa is an actual physician and the medical officer who performed my evaluation in Edmonton is not, that this letter may be a final decision as it makes no mention of appeal.   I understand that I should just ask these questions directly with the medic at the recruiting office, but the more i know before i go down there, the better equipped i will be to deal with what they have to say.



Yes it is possible to appeal the limitations and in my experience this can only be done if you have more medical proof that your condition has improved or will not intefere with your employment and deployment as a CF member.   These decisions are not made lightly.

_that this letter may be a final decision as it makes no mention of appeal._ This should not dissuade you from talking to the med person at the CFRC/D.


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## fleeingjam

I received a similar letter, and on the top or near the end of the letter there was a phone number to the officer who wrote the letter. Give that number a call. Normally it will go to an answering machine but just leave a message and wait it out. 

Good Luck


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## dearryan

edmonton said:
			
		

> Looking for answers in regards to a letter i received from Ottawa today.
> 
> During my medical evaluation in Edmonton I honestly mentioned that in the past i have sustained ankle and shoulder injuries from rugby. Both of these injuries are now over 5 years old and do not in any way effect me physically.  I passed my fitness test with the instructor commenting that i performed extremely well (i'm a female applicant), and also passed the recruiting medical.
> 
> Today i received a letter from the Recruiting medical officer in Ottawa stating that because of the above mentioned injuries I do not meet the common enrolment standard and medical limitations have been assigned, meaning I'm not eligable for reg or reserve forces.  I provided documentation earlier from my family doctor stating that i was physically fit and able and am now wondering where I go from here.
> 
> Of course my career counsellor doesn't answer his phone and I haven't been able to speak to him yet, but I was wondering if anyone knows the procedure for something like this?  I know I am fit and do meet the standard, is there any way I can appeal this decision?




sorry to hear that. Thats pretty drastic. As long as you are truely ok, I would fight that one hard. Dont give up!
Good luck.


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## The Gues-|-

Hello there!  I am currently in the process of appealing a medical decision which stated that I "don't meet the common enrolement standards" due to a prior knee injury I had suffered almost 2 years ago out west. The letter also said on the bottom in bold print: "contact CFB Gagetown for the final decision concerning the application"; which I did.  CFB Gagetown told me I had to be in contact with a specialist and get him/her to write a letter to CF recruiting center stating that I was fully capable, which he did last week. I have waited for almost a full year to get where I am right now and there is still no promises.  Morale of this whole post is to hang in there and annoy the hell out of everyone until you are sworn in.  I wish you all the best!


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## fleeingjam

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> Hello there!   I am currently in the process of appealing a medical decision which stated that I "don't meet the common enrolement standards" due to a prior knee injury I had suffered almost 2 years ago out west. The letter also said on the bottom in bold print: "contact CFB Gagetown for the final decision concerning the application"; which I did.   CFB Gagetown told me I had to be in contact with a specialist and get him/her to write a letter to CF recruiting center stating that I was fully capable, which he did last week. I have waited for almost a full year to get where I am right now and there is still no promises.   Morale of this whole post is to hang in there and annoy the heck out of everyone until you are sworn in.   I wish you all the best!



If you dont mind me asking what was is that did not allow you to meet the "common enrolement standards"?


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## Sgt_McWatt

I am nervous about getting a letter like that. I have no injury's but when I was in Gr. 3 I want on Rydalin for about 2 months. Nothing major and I was never even diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. My Family Doctor filled in the form stating that. But what are the chances that that will be unacceptable to the RMO?


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## The Gues-|-

I had a history of right knee and patellar disclocations on different occasions. on top of that I stretched my acl.  Understandably, the CF medical standards ensure that all recruits can achieve high standards of physical fitness and endure prolonged periods of sever mental and physical stress. Military Personnel work in extreme climatic conditions and diverse environments including isolated areas where little medical support is available. etc.  :dontpanic:


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## The Gues-|-

Simply phone the nearest CFRC and ask for the status of your application. :dontpanic:


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## kincanucks

Reserve or Regular Force applicant?


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## militarygirl88

Hello,
      
        I have looked throughout the forums on posts about appealing letters from DOD. I have not found any posts on appealing letters about past history of asthma or use of puffers. I have found posts on flat feet and such, but none on my topic. 

        I received a letter from DOD, disqualifying me because as a child I had problems with asthma, due to allergies and stress in my home. However, I have not had to use puffers or have had any problems in 6 years with asthma. I was informed by my recruiter that I could appeal this letter to the Medical board in Hamilton, I believe is where he said. 

       My questions are: How do I appeal a letter to the board?? If I successfully get the letter appealed, how long will it be before i know, if I can continue with my processing, and rebook my Fit test (it should have been tomorrow at 1320)??

       Theses questions are directed more so at the Medics on this site. However, any answers are appreciated. 

                  
       
       Thanks in Advance

            MilitaryGirl88


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## George Wallace

Funny....I took your word "asthma" and plunked it into the little box at the top of the page and hit Search and I found four pages of articles on asthma.  Did you try that?

I know this topic has been covered many times before.


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## militarygirl88

George,
         To be honest, I hadn't typed in asthma in the search function. I was looking more specifically for letters from the DOD and appealing them, but thanks, anyways.

MilitaryGirl88


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## kincanucks

Americans call it DOD, we call it DND and in fact your letter was sent from the CF a department of DND.


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## militarygirl88

tis the same thing basically, i only wanted to know how to appeal it not be corrected on which is which, but thanks kincanuck

Kate


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## kincanucks

Really? Talk to the medical person that did your medical to see if there is an appeal process for your case as recruiters don't know anything about the medical process.  Also, any appeals would go to Ottawa and not Hamilton and learn to accept correction and criticism now or you will never make it in the CF if you get in that is.


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## militarygirl88

i talked to the medic, and he said all was well and that i would just need to book my PT, Captain. and the letter i got said to send all info to Hamilton, and i can accept critisim thank you very much, sir
Kate


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## kincanucks

_I was informed by my recruiter that I could appeal this letter to the Medical board in Hamilton, I believe is where he said. _

or

_and the letter i got said to send all info to Hamilton_

I just don't know how I got confused then.  Let me take a shot in the dark here.  You are applying for the reserves but not in Hamilton but under the control of CFRC Hamilton and therefore the medical person works in CFRC Hamilton?  If so, then once they receive the info they will forward to the RMO in Ottawa.


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## militarygirl88

my recruiting office is in Kitchener Ontario, but the medic who did my medical works in both Hamilton and Kitchener, he's only at my recruiting office once a week, so i am under the control of CFRC Kitchener, sir.


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## kincanucks

CFRC Detachment Kitchener is under the control of CFRC Hamilton.  Good luck with your appeal. Out.


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## militarygirl88

that i did not know thanks, 
Kate


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## fleeingjam

Wow..... you found no topics on asthma rejection letter appleals, now i know this sorta not what your looking for but this thread (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17925.0.html)   and many many other threads have people who recieved rejection letters and appealed them in different ways. So that thread can sorta tell you what to excpect good luck.



- Im currently in same situation PM if any other questions.


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## militarygirl88

hi thanks Usman_Syed, but i went in and spoke to the medic at my recruiting office and he explained it all to me, but thanks
Kate


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## spud

Oooo, are they gonna luv you in the military!


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## militarygirl88

spud said:
			
		

> Oooo, are they gonna luv you in the military!



whats that suppose to mean, spud?


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## the 48th regulator

MilitaryGirl69  has her answer now, and has shown how someone can gain that information.

This is locked, 

dileas

tess


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## Æ Ninja Æ

I completed the med test on Sept 11th about 2 weeks ago. There were only 2 problems. My blood pressure was a bit on the high side (it runs in the family) I told him that and I said I was a bit nervous, anxious etc. Also I had minor arthroscopic surgery on my knee a little over a year ago because of a torn ACL or torn meniscus (err something... I can't remember.) I told him my leg hasn't bothered me since. Anyway he wanted me to get my operation report from the doctor. He just picked it up last friday I think.

Since my physical on Sept 11th I've been running every day trying to lower my BP, I've stopped eating junk I drink a lot of water so I think it should be lowered by now. (Just incase they wanna take my BP again.) Anyway I just wanted to know if they'd refuse me because of any of that stuff. I mean, I know I can handle BMQ I've run marathons in the past and I'm an avid martial artist among other things.


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## Gregg

Did they put your medical on hold until you get your doctor to sign some papers they gave you?  If that's the case then I bet they won't refuse you if you get them signed but will refuse you if you don't.  I passed the medical with a 6 month old ACL tear.


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## Trinity

Æ Ninja Æ said:
			
		

> Anyway I just wanted to know if they'd refuse me because of any of that stuff.



Haven't we gone through this before with you???


----------



## Æ Ninja Æ

No I only just found out they put it on hold. I don't know what they're doing.


----------



## patrick666

Call them and ask?

We can only speculate their reasons.


----------



## Port Hope

Is anyone else waiting for his or her medical to come back from Ottawa?  I've been waiting for a month or so (which I know is not very long!) but I am curious to know if the wait times have diminished over previous years.  The whole process was flying but seemed to go quiet at the beginning of April.


----------



## stealthylizard

My Advice:  Call them up to see what is going on.  I hadn't heard anything recently on the status of my application, so decided to bother them for a minute.  They were waiting on my VFS before proceeding further.  I wanted to get the rest of the process out of the way in the meantime, but the recruiters have a method to their madness.  I am not sure if I will have to redo my CFAT since it has been 6 years since the last time I did it.


----------



## mysteriousmind

yes you will have to do it again...

I had made my CFAT in 1998 and I had to do them again in 2006. 

And yes (big smile) the recruiters thing are madness lol  ;D


----------



## Kieran

I've also been waiting for a while.  I called CFRC Vancouver up in February just to see what the status of my application was, and they said they were just waiting for my medical to get back.  I was told it usually takes a month to a month and a half, so I guess there must be an influx of new recruits slowing things down a bit.


----------



## Port Hope

Thanks for the information everyone, I feel better knowing that I am not alone in waiting.  I have to get this patience thing down pat :'(.


----------



## Keebler

Back in early March my medical forms were sent back east, i believe around March 7th...i hadnt heard anything the by the first week of April, so i decided to call....and low and behold..my medical came back cleared and they had me merit listed since March 26th. So definately give them a call, you never know, they may have everything back already!!


----------



## Port Hope

Just an update, in case anyone else is comparing wait times.  My medical went to Ottawa around the 20th of March and came back to the recruiting center in Toronto on the 20th of April (which seems like a reasonable turn around time).  Unfortunately, my own doctor went bananas in her testing to prove that I'm not diabetic and provided the medical board with stacks of blood work which they carefully examined and found another issue.  I'll post the turn around time on this next round when all is said and done.


----------



## Port Hope

This is for anyone who is waiting for their medical to come back from Ottawa.  This was my second time through for sending in stuff for my medical.  I submitted my forms around May 12th and had a reply by June 1st.  It was barely over two weeks for a response!


----------



## tree hugger

So they cleared you?


----------



## proudnurse

Port Hope said:
			
		

> This is for anyone who is waiting for their medical to come back from Ottawa.  This was my second time through for sending in stuff for my medical.  I submitted my forms around May 12th and had a reply by June 1st.  It was barely over two weeks for a response!



Port Hope, from your one post I do remember you had some pretty bad news and I think it was about your white blood count, and I felt sorry to hear that things were not going the way that you hoped. Sounds like things have turned around for you. That's wonderful  

~Rebecca


----------



## Port Hope

Merit listed finally, I feel like a dope for giving up hope on the process.


----------



## proudnurse

Port Hope said:
			
		

> Merit listed finally, I feel like a dope for giving up hope on the process.



Sometimes, with anything when we are not sure what the outcome is going to be, it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know that when I started my course that I am taking now, I started back in January, there have honestly been times when I have felt like giving up also. Then when I started getting results, good marks that I surprised myself with, it just gave me the courage to keep plugging away. 

Port Hope, from your last post about your own blocks in the road, now _this_ it truly shows, that with hard work and pushing through for what you truly want, anything is possible if you trust that what is meant to be will happen. And it's definately, on the right track for you! Keep us updated! 

~Rebecca


----------



## Keebler

Congrats port hope, glad to see you followed through and it worked for you!!


----------



## phil.n

proudnurse said:
			
		

> Sometimes, with anything when we are not sure what the outcome is going to be, it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know that when I started my course that I am taking now, I started back in January, there have honestly been times when I have felt like giving up also. Then when I started getting results, good marks that I surprised myself with, it just gave me the courage to keep plugging away.
> 
> Port Hope, from your last post about your own blocks in the road, now _this_ it truly shows, that with hard work and pushing through for what you truly want, anything is possible if you trust that what is meant to be will happen. And it's definately, on the right track for you! Keep us updated!
> 
> ~Rebecca



I second that.

Very unexpected things happen in the medical.....I had an allergy problem initially which they rejected me for, so I went to see an allergist to try to clear things up...the thing was, I personally did not find the letter from my allergist to be very convincing in proving that I would not die if exposed. To this day, I still eat the stuff that I am supposedly allergic to. But the doctor stated that I should carry an epipen because you "never know". Even the medical technicians at the CFRC didn't think it was convincing enough. I gave up on the process because it was very very likely I would not get accepted. Sure enough that my next letter would be another rejection, it came back when I had already gotten myself another job and bam. I was just as shocked as anyone else would be to get accepted when the chances of getting in was slim to none. I guess it really proves something to come back and show them some initiative if you get yourself a second opinion. Shows that you're not in just to get trained and leave, but some serious commitment.


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

mysteriousmind said:
			
		

> yes you will have to do it again...
> 
> I had made my CFAT in 1998 and I had to do them again in 2006.
> 
> And yes (big smile) the recruiters thing are madness lol  ;D



Not necessarily, I just did a CEOTP App in Dec last year and the BPSO used my GCB results from 1996


----------



## RetiredRoyal

My medical docs went from the recruiting centre to Ottawa on 7 june, and were sent from Ottawa to Toronto on 15 June. Took a week to review and pass it along. My VFS took 4 months. I waited until Friday to see if I got my Air Factor, I'll call on Tuesday to find out. Next step from Toronto is to CFRHQ for fabrication of an offer.

I was deemed 'skilled' so didn't have to do the CFAT. Last aptitude test I did in the Forces was in the late 80's.


----------



## chimo2u

My Interview and Medical was done June 27/ 2007. I had to get a urinalysis done as protein and blood showed up in my urine. I went to the hospital lab the same day (June 27) and had another test and complete urinalysis done. I don't know why the original results were what they were at the recruiting center, but the hospital lab test came back the next morning completely negative for any protien/ blood and was totaly normal. I hand-delivered the results to the Recruiting center and straight into the hands of the medic who had completed my medical exam. Since it was Thur. June 28, He said he would send it off first thing Friday morning (prior to Canada day long weekend). I called the recruiting center July 10th and they said my medical was already in- transit back to them via Ottawa. Was told to call back July 11. I called July 11 and was told "As a candidate, you meet all requirements for enrollment" My file manager said I was merit listed as of July 11,2007. Now I await "THE CALL!!" I was told it should be very shortly!!! I can't wait. To sum up,  I have no complaints as the process has gone quite smoothly and quickly. 12 days for my medical to get approved was by no means a long wait, I'd say!!   Good luck on your process


----------



## Port Hope

Dear Chimo,

I went through the same experience twice but I feel that the whole process was done quickly, professionally and in good order.

I did become discouraged at the end but I began to see that the Canadian Forces has to do a thorough job of weeding out people with real medical issues.  I run my own business and I won't hire people who will fall apart after two weeks of hard labor.


----------



## Meridian

Sgt at CFRC MTL just told me that  as of 1997, CFAT results are good for life. (Assuming you meet the standards, and the data isn't "lost").


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

Chimo I had a simaler experience only over xmas, the medic thought I had a problem in my corotid artery, I had to go have a dopler done on my neck, it came back a sinus arythmia (my heart rate changes as I breath) no big deal, it still only took 17 days to turn around and come back over the xmas lve period, best of luck


----------



## NJL

Chimo the same thing happened to me recently... at the CFRC my urine was positive for both blood and protein.. went to my family doctor and did a blood and urine test, and everything came back normal... this is the second time I came back positive for protein in my urine (at the CFRC) to latter have it come back clean/normal at my local hospital.


----------



## tvailas

Hi everyone,

I've been reading a bunch on here about people waiting a while for their medical stuff to come back and it seems that if everything is fine, it should clear relatively quickly.  I applied, wrote the CFAT, did an interview, did all the medical stuff which went well, and have been waiting since the beginning of May '07.  I've called a number of times and have been told that my air factor is the only thing holding up my application.  I applied for AEC as a DEO.  I am just curious if this is a normal waiting period for an air factor, or should I be worried?  As of today, that's almost 5.5 months.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.


----------



## smoke

Ok, So Back a couple of months ago, I ran into some trouble in my medical, I don't know how this happend but they said I cant take medication into the feild, Well im fine with that because I dont need medication what so ever,

I think possibly my doctor may have made a mistake or some one at the head office may have made a mistake because I received a letter in return saying im not elligable for the canadian forces, 

I want to know If its possible to appeal this or what, because I want to make a life long career out of this.
Im positive I scored good on the apititude because i got high enough to be weapons tech and My interveiwer said he really liked me and will hold me in high regaurds for selection... 
So can any one out there offer me any good advice?


----------



## the 48th regulator

smoke said:
			
		

> Ok, So Back a couple of months ago, I ran into some trouble in my medical, I don't know how this happend but they said I cant take medication into the feild, Well im fine with that because I dont need medication what so ever,
> 
> I think possibly my doctor may have made a mistake or some one at the head office may have made a mistake because I received a letter in return saying im not elligable for the canadian forces,
> 
> I want to know If its possible to appeal this or what, because I want to make a life long career out of this.
> Im positive I scored good on the apititude because i got high enough to be weapons tech and My interveiwer said he really liked me and will hold me in high regaurds for selection...
> So can any one out there offer me any good advice?



Have you talked with your doctor to see what happened, or are you assuming this is what happened to you; the error that is..

dileas

tess


----------



## smoke

I think my doctor may have marked I need a dark room if i get a migrain, which by the way I havn't had in 2 years lol, 

I think its entirley accidental.  I jus want to knw If its ever salvageable, I dont want to be screwed out of a lifetime career because of  a peice of paper.


----------



## the 48th regulator

smoke said:
			
		

> I think my doctor may have marked I need a dark room if i get a migrain, which by the way I havn't had in 2 years lol,
> 
> I think its entirley accidental.  I jus want to knw If its ever salvageable, I dont want to be screwed out of a lifetime career because of  a peice of paper.



Talk to your doctor, ask him first.  He is the professional, and you should tell him all of your details, so that he can make an acurate report.

Without that, what can you appeal with?  Your word?

dileas

tess


----------



## geo

Find out why they rejected you
Get the MD to clarify his diagnosis / get a second opinion if he won't


----------



## smoke

they rejected me because they think I need to take medications, 

I used to take like ritalin back in 99/00 thats about it.


Also I left a message with 2 different medical guys at the cfrc in toronto, mabye they will call me back if not im calling back monday.


----------



## aesop081

smoke said:
			
		

> they rejected me because they think I need to take medications,



Did you ever stop and asked youself why they think that ?


----------



## smoke

what are you insinuating?


----------



## aesop081

smoke said:
			
		

> what are you insinuating?



I'm not insinuating anything

I'm saying that the CF medical staff did not just dream this up.  If they were told that you need medication by your Civilian doctor, you have to go talk to him/her.  You can call the CFRC all you want, they will require paperwork from your civilian doctor so thats where you should start.


----------



## smoke

well, where i think it went wrong is when my doctor asked me if  I needed a dark room for a head ache, and I told her, I usually just go to bed ect, I think thats where it went wrong. And she marked down I need a dark room or something and theyre counting that as medication?

Im just trying to get  past this, and I understand it may take time.

Aslo I would like to know from they if they will take another paper or note from my doc


----------



## SupersonicMax

smoke said:
			
		

> well, where i think it went wrong is when my doctor asked me if  I needed a dark room for a head ache, and I told her, I usually just go to bed ect, I think thats where it went wrong. And she marked down I need a dark room or something and theyre counting that as medication?
> 
> Im just trying to get  past this, and I understand it may take time.
> 
> Aslo I would like to know from they if they will take another paper or note from my doc



Dont forget that going to bed for a headache in the field isn't always (hmmm pretty much never actually) a possibility.  

Max


----------



## Roy Harding

smoke:

Everybody here has already given you good advice - to sum it up for you - go back to your civilian doctor and ask your questions.

Nobody here can do anything more than give you that advice.  I suggest you take it, and get going on it.


----------



## xo31@711ret

Smoke, understand the RMO (recruiting medical officers) go by what was written by the physician assistant / senior medical technician on the medical that was done on you and told by you; but especially what YOUR doctor has written on letters given to you by the CFRC medical staff about medical conditions that have to be clarified to ensure that you are medically fit for the Canadian Forces.

What would happen if stated medical condition occurred while you were, for example,  on extended patrol in Afghanstan / on ship in the middle of the Persian Gulf / flight crew on a humanitarian mission etc, etc etc?

From what was posted by you, you said you were on ritalin one time: ADD / ADHD? - Has this condition resolved? If so, when? Do you still require this medication? Do you still have ADD or ADHD? 

- do you still have migraines? If so, are they incapacitating? Do you require bedrest until it clears? Do you require a darkroom until it clears? Do you require any 'hardcore' medications (eg tylenol 3's; emitrix, etc)? etc; etc; etc

Questions such as these should be answered clearly by your doctor and you; and then, only then will the recruiting medical office (alone) be able to make its final judgement on your medical fitness.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

This has gone on long enough.

Smoke, you have your answer. Go see your doctor.

Locked.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## ssFOX

my medical was sent to ott July 14th its now Aug 17th and still waiting any one still waiting  does any one no if past drug use would disqualify you


----------



## aesop081

ssFOX said:
			
		

> does any one no if past drug use would disqualify you



Its been done on this site before, do a search.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

ssFOX said:
			
		

> my medical was sent to ott July 14th its now Aug 17th and still waiting any one still waiting  does any one no if past drug use would disqualify you



As Cdn Aviator has pointed out the question has been addressed time and time again. Take some time to read the Forum Guidelines and the Recuiting Forums. You will find many answers to your questions.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## apache2001

ssFOX said:
			
		

> my medical was sent to ott July 14th its now Aug 17th and still waiting any one still waiting  does any one no if past drug use would disqualify you



That decision is in the hands of the RMO in Ottawa. But tons of information can be found if you will just patiently use the search option.


----------



## kincanucks

Depends.  Send me a PM.  Did you have any medical issues that could cause a hold up?


----------



## Cooper

My medical was done on the 23rd of September.

It was sent out on an unspecified date.

I called on the 20th of October, (Almost a month later to get an update.) they told me my medical form had been sent back on October 2nd from where ever the files are sent, and that it was being sent back to the recruiting center by snail mail, and may be awhile.

Got a call on the 24th of October that they had received my medical form back at the recruiting center and that it was improperly filled out by the physician.

The form must now be mailed to the physician to be redone, then to be resent. I was told it will add up to an additional 2-4 weeks to my waiting time.

*So it seems the times for mailing stuff fluctuates a ton, and that the physicians are a little lazy!*


----------



## medicineman

Cooper said:
			
		

> *So it seems the times for mailing stuff fluctuates a ton, and that the physicians are a little lazy!*



Improperly filled out doesn't mean lazy - it may simply be they left out something someone else thought was pertinent (not going in depth enough into a positive finding for instance).  Be  careful about tossing labels around here (for instance, I spend on average at least 1-2 weeks a month doing recruit medicals) as word gets around.

Good luck.

MM


----------



## RyanRG

chimo2u said:
			
		

> I had to get a urinalysis done as protein and blood showed up in my urine. I went to the hospital lab the same day (June 27) and had another test and complete urinalysis done. I don't know why the original results were what they were at the recruiting center, but the hospital lab test came back the next morning completely negative for any protien/ blood and was totaly normal.



I had the EXACT same thing happen with my urinalysis. Weird.


----------



## medicineman

Not weird - that's why you were sent, because it's often a transient thing and it's not our job to diagnose you for your family doctor, just point out that there MIGHT be a problem.  BTW, the screening test the hospital lab uses is the same one we use in the CFRC's.  

MM


----------



## Marshall

Hope your guy's forms are done and all by January. I was quite concerned if I would have to do this procedure but amazingly (even with a problem in my left eye) I was good enough to pass medical 100%.. lucky break i guess. I was told the average time was 3-5weeks for med processing, but I guess that it can be FAR longer by the sounds of some of you.


----------



## Tharris

Hello all, 

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice/experience concerning appeals?  I understand the process, but I was wondering what the success rate was and if there is anything 'above and beyond' the bare requirements I should do.  Any and all advice would be appreciated. 

Kind Regards, 

T.


----------



## tech2002

all depends on the severity of your medical issue, if you have been declined because of medical condition, and you have talked to Army Medic then most likely 90% you have little chance to get recruited.. 
if you haven't done anything yet, start first with Army Medic, the one that was with you during recruitment, and ask for advice, most likely they will give you honest advice..


----------



## Amy.Taylor

hi, 
 I was wondering what is an Appeal???


----------



## Lil_T

an appeal is when you try to refute a decision.  

In the case of medicals, when a person is deemed medically unfit, there is sometimes an option for appeal.  It usually requires further testing and confirmation from your family doctor, possibly a specialist, to say that there's no reason to not enroll you (your condition is not as severe as once thought).  That being said, appeals aren't a guarantee you will get in - as the final decision is up to the medical people for CFRG.


----------



## Amy.Taylor

Hi, 
so if i have a medical issue I go to my doctor and get them to write a letter or something? what should the letter say?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Amy.2006 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> so if i have a medical issue I go to my doctor and get them to write a letter or something? what should the letter say?



the truth


----------



## Amy.Taylor

Of course i am going to tell the truth but thanks for the advice  :camo:


----------



## Lil_T

you'd have to bring in not only a letter from the Dr but the test results as well.  At least that's what makes the most sense to me.


----------



## medicineman

Depending what the problem that is keeping you from joining, you should get a letter from your family doc as well as supporting letter(s) from a specialist - you'd have to get your family doc to refer you.

Good luck.

MM


----------



## dr.davies

To confirm everything above, indeed it is a matter of getting test results done and speaking with your GP.  In my experience, I had to get multiple tests done, I then included a letter from my doctor with his assessment which complemented the test results, which he sent directly to the RMO on my behalf, as well I included a letter on my own.  The letter I personally wrote likely didn't have an impact, however it allowed me an opportunity to reiterate my entire history to the RMO who may have otherwise passed over it and gone directly to the initial recommendation from my recruitment medical.  I left no stone unturned and ensured the RMO had all the information.  After 6 months I was cleared.  There are certainly no guarantees, and rest assured the onus is entirely on yourself.  But be patient for results, be diligent in the information you provide, be committed to the process if you feel this is what you want, but also be accepting that a medical standard exists for a reason.  Good Luck.


----------



## Rinker

This may be an old topic but whatever. If all my references have been contacted and old bosses etc by backcheck have been phoned and/emailed does that mean my medical was cleared. If anyone is curious as to what, I have orthotic inserts and the medical staff that reviewed me said I don't really need them and filed that I was a good candidate. I still had to get additional info, and my prognosis was excellent. So I was just wondering, because I am getting kind of bored waiting on the army considering I applied in Feb.


----------



## PMedMoe

Your references have been checked, but that does not mean your medical is cleared.  I'm pretty sure they do things simultaneously.  You applied in Feb, that's only three months ago.  Be patient!!  When things do happen, they will happen quickly.


----------



## templeton peck

I suspect the medical review is just another step to justify more bureaucrats in the long chain of pencil pushers. Why on earth could the medical officer at the recruiting office not be able to ok your file?  Streamlined my ass!


----------



## aesop081

templeton peck said:
			
		

> I suspect the medical review is just another step to justify more bureaucrats in the long chain of pencil pushers. Why on earth could the medical officer at the recruiting office not be able to ok your file?  Streamlined my ass!



 :crybaby:     :crybaby:      :crybaby:


----------



## templeton peck

Yes, you got me CDN! I also suspect those things never get fixed precisely because of people such as yourself with the attitude that complaining is tantamount to whining. I would rather be a 'whiner' than someone eating crap and asking for more, imho.


----------



## George Wallace

Complaining and whinning.  I guess many of us look at them being the same unless the person making the complaint does so officially in a document/letter/memorandum and/or also provides a solution to the problem.  In your case, you just made a 'derogatory remark', so I will side with CDN Aviator.


----------



## Rinker

Well the medical officer that gives you your medical, does not have all info or additional info. But they do give a recomendation and the I was told that the medical review board goes with the recomendation. However if the additional information you send turns out to be really serious I guess tuff. But I have been merit listed so I think that means I have cleared.


----------



## PMedMoe

templeton peck said:
			
		

> I suspect the medical review is just another step to justify more bureaucrats in the long chain of pencil pushers. Why on earth could the medical officer at the recruiting office not be able to ok your file?  Streamlined my ***!



Because the medical officer at the recruiting centre is probably a civilian who hasn't got a schmick what the military requirements are.  This way, *all* medicals are given the same treatment.

I remember during Op Parasol, providing care for the refugees from Kosovo, when one of the civilian doctors was quite excited that she had done a single medical in half an hour.  The military doc said, "Big deal, I just did five."   ;D


----------



## George Wallace

Add to the equation that the Medical Review Board will include Specialists who can more accurately determine if a person can or can not meet the medical requirements to be enrolled into the CF.  Something that the doctor at the CFRC may not be able to do.


----------



## Doom

I;m currently waiting on these guys, have a good feeling and a bad feeling :/  :boring:


----------



## medicineman

templeton peck said:
			
		

> I suspect the medical review is just another step to justify more bureaucrats in the long chain of pencil pushers. Why on earth could the medical officer at the recruiting office not be able to ok your file?  Streamlined my ***!



Tough tiddly winks - all of your medicals after you get in are also reviewed for second signature, sometimes more if a restrictive category is assigned.  It's done as quality control - sometimes things get missed or under/over assessed and need to be adressed.  Keeps people from slipping through the cracks that have potentially nasty problems that could rear their ugly heads that wouldn't in a run of the mill civilian job.  I don't mind - I have been told my medicals are too thorough, but hey, I've seen the results of things not being looked into far enough.

MM


----------



## Doom

medicineman said:
			
		

> Tough tiddly winks - all of your medicals after you get in are also reviewed for second signature, sometimes more if a restrictive category is assigned.  It's done as quality control - sometimes things get missed or under/over assessed and need to be adressed.  Keeps people from slipping through the cracks that have potentially nasty problems that could rear their ugly heads that wouldn't in a run of the mill civilian job.  I don't mind - I have been told my medicals are too thorough, but hey, I've seen the results of things not being looked into far enough.
> 
> MM



With all respect, I hope you do look into them. I've gone through the system and had a letter. RMO asked me to solve some issues, so I did. And I'm heading out to BMQ aug, 10th... A week after a handed my files in to medical unit at 4900 younge street. Appreciate the work you guys do.


----------



## dhddiver

Hello I am new to this forum but I wanted to ask on the success rate of appealing the RMO decision of a G3.  I have been in the process of applying for the Navy as a Weapons Tech since August and with support letters from my doctors saying that I am fit for service.  I have talked to the recruiting office and the PO that did my medical recommended that I was a G2, and said not to give up and appeal the decision.

thanks
dhddiver


----------



## mellian

Hey all, 

I have used the regular malfunctioning search feature, used google to search the forums, and the only thing I found is bunch of threads of people asking for appeal information for whatever reason with no answers apart from "use the search" "sucks to be you, standards are there for a reason", "your not special", and such. 

While I do not need it at present, has I still have room to work with in regards to the usual medical process, I thought it would be good to know and to research further on the medical standards and find any info on the appeal process. 

Found the medical standards (http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/default-eng.asp) which provides info on how they handle medical files in general, but no information I can find so far on the appeal process. It is a good read, and something all who are asking about medical appeals to read it. 

If it is posted anywhere, maybe sticky it and possibly can cut down on the threads asking about it?


----------



## the 48th regulator

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/

dileas

tess


----------



## mellian

Thank you tess!

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/au-ns/man/index-eng.asp



> Any of the following people may bring a complaint to the Ombudsman when the matter is directly related to the Department of National Defence or the Canadian Forces.
> 
> * A current or former member of the Canadian Forces
> * A current or former member of the Cadets
> * A current or former employee of the Department of National Defence
> * A current or former non public fund employee
> ** A person applying to become a member*
> * A member of the immediate family of any of the above-mentioned
> * An individual on an exchange or secondment with the Canadian Forces



Combined with the link of the medical standards in the OP and the search function (both the forums and google's 'whatever site:forums.milnet.ca', all one needs to get information on appeals process and whether one can appeal at all. 

I recommend this information to be stickied please.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Done,  

Also found an investigation already done on recruiting, 

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/mr-sm/nr-cp/2006/1907-eng.asp

So the Ombudsman will tackle any military related complaint.

Good luck.

dileas

tess


----------



## ARL

Hey all,
I'm an undergraduate student in my 2nd year and it has always been my goal to join the military. To make the transition into it and make sure it was right for me I opted to join the primary reserves to act as a stepping stone not only into the military but possibly into other branches of the Canadian government (CSIS I'm looking at you!). I've always wanted to be in the military and the reserves seemed to be be perfect opportunity for me. After a year and a half of working out my application I get shot down at the last phase due to two medical conditions I may or may not have but the Sgt. decided to make sound life threatening based on the letter I received in the mail today. For the curious it was an allergy to hazelnut and asthma, two things I haven't experienced in a long, long time and I am in the process of appealing that (only found out today) but that is another story. To put this into context I've never needed an epipen since I was suspected of having an allergy to hazelnut 3 years ago and I've been A.O.K since then and I play rugby for my university and have never had an asthmatic issue, knock on wood! (in November and in the Maritimes no less). Maybe there is such a thing as being too honest...

What this made me realize is that if worse comes to worse and I don't get into the military for whatever reason I need something else. If the opportunity to join the reserves is taken away I need something to fill that void. Teach me to have all my eggs in one basket. So I was wondering if anyone knew about some sort of viable alternative to the reserves? I think the RCMP is more of a commitment than the reserves, which is a commitment I doubt I could do justice. Volunteer firefighting just doesn't seem to provide the same kind of work atmosphere and lifestyle that I'm looking for. Although I run the risk of sounding pessimistic I sincerely doubt there a comparable alternative, but you never know.

P.S This isn't a whine or a rant. I just want to know if there is a silver lining...

Regards,
ARL


----------



## GAP

Whatever you decide on, take a moment before you apply, and ask yourself that if you were an employer and your applicant's  allergies reoccurred, how would you have to deal with it.


----------



## Stoker

I know lots of people in the naval reserves with me who have severe food allergies, including nuts and they are serving. I didn't know that was the basis for a rejected application.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Let's stay away from the allergies\ asthma thing. There are tons of threads on this already that explain why they garner a rejection.

If this thread is to continue, concentrate on the actual request in the second paragraph and disregard the "Why I wasn't accepted" preamble.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## CFR FCS

Look into the RCMP Auxiliary Constable Program at http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ccaps-spcca/auxil-eng.htm#require . They might fit your needs. 

You can and should challenge your Med unfit status but remember that the forces ofter works in places without a comprehensive medical support system in place. That means our standards are often higher for your protection.

Best of luck.

CFR FCS


----------



## Brasidas

ARL said:
			
		

> I think the RCMP is more of a commitment than the reserves, which is a commitment I doubt I could do justice.



The RCMP does have auxiliaries. A friend of mine from my unit is an RCMP constable, and was describing their functions a couple weeks ago. The job's what you make of it.

From our conversation, they have limited functions, but can play a role in assisting officers in responding to a call. They can help control the scene, assist in providing medical aid, and generally be an extra set of hands.

My friend was relatively disappointed with how they responded in the scenario he dealt with, but they had a potential to make a difference.


----------



## Pusser

I once had a guy working for me who was a volunteer firefighter.  He was a fantastic petty officer and had a great future ahead of him.  Unfortunately, he got out to become a full time firefighter.  He obviously saw something in it.  I would argue that most volunteer fire departments have many of same attributes as the military (camraderie, work ethic, etc).  If I lived in a community that had one, I'd like to try it myself.


----------



## TFLY

I'm just wondering if anyone knows what the likelihood of the MO in Ottawa changing his mind on a medical that he rejected given the following reasons AND arguments:

The NOT FIT reasons:

1) Spine - OLD Cat Scan results showed - Chronic Low back pain, radiant pain down one leg and degenerative disc in L5 - S1 that "requires" Chiropractic treatment.

2) Hypothyroidism with REQUIRES synthroid

3) Infrequent migrains which require Zomig


REASONS for REBUTAL:

1)  After making changes to my diet and exercise habits, all pain has gone.  Dr. has no record of me talking to her about my back since June 08 and she wrote a note saying all symptoms have gone, she also stated I did not REQUIRE chiropractic care, but I chose it for my over all health.  .  I also had a Physio test today (Functional abilities test) and scored A+++++ and the report will read as such

2) My thyroid has been controlled for about 14 years on the SAME medication

3) I provided a print out of my medication I  had perscribed and "filled' for migraine.  In 72 months, 42 perscribed, 24 filled, 20 used and 18 of which was used in the first 3 years and I also stated I could function 100% without it!!

Now, all the being said, I'm a 37 year old woman trying to get into the ROTP program, CFAT went well, Interview went great as well.  I could just wait to See what they say...but I would just love some input.    

Thanks in advance!

 ;D


----------



## medicineman

The same advice I give everyone else - bring in detailed letters outlining the issues about your back, both from your GP, physio and chiro...same about your thryoid and migraine histories, and any recent specialist reports if there are any from endocrinology (if you're seeing one) and neurology (again if you're seeing one).  The thyroid probably wouldn't be an issue, the migraines, that might be a harder sell, especially if they are debilitating ones.  However, if you don't try, you definitely won't get a yes.

MM


----------



## TFLY

Thanks MM,
I'm not seeing any specialist for my headaches, they are few and far between (pretty much out grew them I think) and never debilitating.  

So yes, I am going to try, I now have all documents into them within 72 hours of finding out I was "Unfit"  

I am hoping the MO is in a good mood on a the day  he receives all the supporting documents.


----------



## SeanNewman

Normally I am the last guy to defend a recruiting centre due to how much they screwed up on my file when joining, but if I put myself in their shoes on this one...

...say I have 10 people wanting to join and I have 5 spots to offer.  I've got to say "no" to some of them, so all other things being equal, why wouldn't I take the ones with no history of health problems?

Not saying this is what happened, and I'm not saying you don't have anything to offer, but what if someone else had your qualifications but didn't require meds?


----------



## X2012

Hey TFLY, good luck with the migraines. I was unfit because of mine, but I appealed successfully, although it may be because I have a non-classical presentation, low frequency, and an odd lack of functional limitations even during an episode (It's really weird...).


----------



## Maelstrom

Bumping old thread instead of making a new one. 

I have a job offer and was injured after I agreed, BMQ was pushed back. A month before BMQ was to start I was medically rejected on Dec 06th 2010, and didn't receive the original letter. I called and confirmed my address and had another sent Jan 5th, still no letter. 

I'm concerned about time frames with the appeal. I am under the impression that as long as I am appealing the decision, the job offer still remains. What is the time line for submitting an appeal? and is it true that my job offer is still there but on hold until after the appeal process?


----------



## someguy81

Hello, I am currently an applicant who has already started the application process,having done my aptitude test and my medical,I am applying as a Steward, and i have read  the medical review report info on forces.ca application process and in my current situation is in the waiting period.My question is i had to have a form filled out from my doctor having a mild case of Attention Deficit Disorder and handed it back into recruiting center about 3 business days later,as quick as i can have it back possible,could i get a ballpark idea of how long my situation could get back to me with a phone call for my interview date?,and could I get a ball park idea of if i' m  not qualified how long it will take before I get letter in the mail?All information from anyone who is  or has experienced this is very much appreciated. Thank You!, and Good Luck.


----------



## aesop081

someguy81 said:
			
		

> could i get a ballpark idea of how long my situation could get back to me



No.


----------



## someguy81

I guess I will update whatever info i find out , all there is to do now is wait. Everyone else experiences with this topic would be great.
Good luck


----------



## medicineman

There are 3 piles that files go to in Ottawa - "Recommend Immediate Enrollment", "Do Not Recommend Immediate Enrollment", "Does Not Meet Common Enrollment Medical Standards - Do Not Recommend Enrollment".  The middle one has the files with the doctor letters and is by far the largest, so it tends to take AT LEAST 2 weeks after it arrives before it gets looked at.  If you haven't received a phone call or a letter after a month, call back to ask.

MM


----------



## someguy81

Well, i handed it into the recruit center on the 4th of Oct, so it might be around the 1st week of Nov. when i will aim to be prepared for. I hope I get the phone call instead of a letter though,(cross fingers).
Thanks for your input MM, I feel more reassured knowing the time frame.


----------



## someguy81

If i receive a letter saying i cannot join because of my situation.Would there be anyone who can tell me how I could possibly reapply??? Or are there any angles to get the official "YES"?Or Could anyone tell me if I will get either the "Phone Call"OR the"Letter"?which side of the fence would one think it would Balance out to most likely be?
Good Luck Everyone!


----------



## medicineman

The "angle" is to rectify the problem - if it can't be rectified, then you have to take your lumps and move on.

Some things just need more information, some things need time to resolve...however there are things that can't be helped at all.

Like Stacked said...don't worry until you're told to worry.  You might hear that again somewhere.

MM


----------



## someguy81

Looks like i don't need to worry. I Got a letter saying i don't qualify or ''Unfortunately you do not meet the medical standards''. Now i can appeal it, I don't NEED medication, I am currently not taking it. Or it says ''the decision may be reconsidered,after 9 months of not being on ANY medication,with a letter from specialist and a record of physical health.
So I am going to have to come to a decision about this because I AM going to join the national defense, no matter what. The way i see things I don't need any medication at all. I am completely fine.


----------



## dangerboy

someguy81 said:
			
		

> Looks like i don't need to worry. I Got a letter saying i don't qualify or ''Unfortunately you do not meet the medical standards''. Now i can appeal it, I don't NEED medication, I am currently not taking it. Or it says ''the decision may be reconsidered,after 9 months of not being on ANY medication,with a letter from specialist and a record of physical health.
> So I am going to have to come to a decision about this because I AM going to join the national defense, no matter what. The way i see things   I don't need any medication at all. I am completely fine.



Unfortunately it does not mater how you see things, it is how the medical professionals see it.  You might have to accept that you can't be in the CF.


----------



## someguy81

It is up to the medical. So when I don't take and medication from now on, because i never did in the past I am completely normal. I took adderall for the class i was taking and found it didn't do anything for me at all. And put a stop to taking it. Hopefully keeping a positive note, I will have better luck next time.


----------



## PMedMoe

someguy81 said:
			
		

> So when I don't take and medication from now on, because i never did in the past I am completely normal.





			
				someguy81 said:
			
		

> I took adderall for the class i was taking and found it didn't do anything for me at all. And put a stop to taking it.



So which is it?  You never took meds or you did?


----------



## someguy81

I took it for a short time and now im off it. And now I wonder should I bother applying again as this is something I really want.


----------



## aesop081

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> So which is it?  You never took meds or you did?



And the, HE decided he did not need the meds anymore.

 :



			
				someguy81 said:
			
		

> I AM going to join the national defense, no matter what.



I know your mom told you that you could be anything you want, but you will have to meet our standards. Thankfully for the CF, we still get to decided that one.


----------



## Scott

someguy81 said:
			
		

> I took it for a short time and now im off it. And now I wonder should I bother applying again as this is something I really want.



If it's something you really want then, by all means, go for it. However, the CF is not exactly recruiting like they once were, that makes competition extremely tight. You also have something in your medical history that makes them a little leary - that is, at least for now, a strike against you. Combine the two and you have a recipe for being turned down.

If your heart is set on it then keep trying. Wait the requisite amount of time and go for it again. But be prepared to be told, 'We're full" or that you still do not meet enrolment standards. 

Having the desire to join does not qualify you for anything.

Sorry, that's honesty


----------



## someguy81

Thank you for your honesty. I will keep updating after I talk to my recruiting center.


----------



## Vagabond

I know the pains of waiting. I initially applied to the CF as an infantryman in 2008, got all the way to medical and BLAMMO... kidney stone history got me. I was told I needed to be 100% clear of stones (as in stones that require medical assistance to remove) for 5 years. January 2012 is the 5 year anniversary of my last surgery... so if they say you need to wait 5 years before you can apply, then guess what: I did it. So can you  I'm not at all guaranteed entrance (and I am researching what other professions of arms there are that I can enter with my newly gained skills in those intervening 5 years), but there are those of us that have had medical rejections and told to wait, and we have waited patiently. So buck up, chin up, wait out the period (if given one) and try again


----------



## DogFighting101

Vagabond said:
			
		

> I know the pains of waiting. I initially applied to the CF as an infantryman in 2008, got all the way to medical and BLAMMO... kidney stone history got me. I was told I needed to be 100% clear of stones (as in stones that require medical assistance to remove) for 5 years. January 2012 is the 5 year anniversary of my last surgery... so if they say you need to wait 5 years before you can apply, then guess what: I did it. So can you  I'm not at all guaranteed entrance (and I am researching what other professions of arms there are that I can enter with my newly gained skills in those intervening 5 years), but there are those of us that have had medical rejections and told to wait, and we have waited patiently. So buck up, chin up, wait out the period (if given one) and try again



I hope everything goes smoothly for you this time, read your your story in the original post, must of sucked royally.


----------



## ttlbmg

I have a question for all the recruiters out there, if they could give me assistance, it would be greatly appreciated!

I applied for DEO positions back in August, and was told by the recruitment center that the trades I had chosen were closed, and that I probably would not hear from the CF until the new fiscal year. (I knew that going in, so I wasn't surprised, the trades I picked aren't open often)

Yesterday, I received a letter in the mail explaining that my application was reviewed and although I have a satisfactory application, my application would not be further reviewed for my trade. It is a standard form letter, without any indication of what trade I was being refused admittance to. I have not been to the center, have not had a CFAT, completed a fitness test, or interview. I am unsure as to which trade I am being rejected for, and was not aware that any trade that I had applied for was open. Can anyone give me any further explanation as to what exactly has happened? I am just a little confused as to how I was rejected, what I was rejected for, and what I could do to improve my application. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## ttlbmg

Is this common though? Why do centers review files? I just never thought that I would get a flat out no without anyone meeting me. I thought my application was fairly solid, no credit issues, complete application including transcripts and degree. Can I choose other trades without having to reapply?


----------



## aesop081

ttlbmg said:
			
		

> I thought my application was fairly solid,



I guess you were wrong.

Give the RC a call when they open back up, i'm sure they will be able to explain things to you.


----------



## ttlbmg

Would that mean that one of the trades that I had applied for became open? Or all of them? I guess that I was hoping that someone could speak to this in generalities, as opposed to a specific situation. What is the process of rejection in this manner? That is my question.


----------



## PuckChaser

Do you not met one of the basic criteria to become a CF member? IE Age, Citizenship, etc?


----------



## ttlbmg

I am a Canadian citizen (Canadian born), under 30, currently hold a Bachelor Degree (which was earned with a B+ or higher average), never been arrested or convicted of a criminal offence. I have all my transcripts handed in, to my knowledge they completed another security screening, which I know that I passed through, as I had it completed prior in regards to a CSC position. To my knowledge, my credit is in good standing. I have yet to complete my interview or any other component that would merit me.


----------



## GAP

This is all second guessing with a healthy dose of angst.......it's been said....check with the recruiting office.


----------



## ttlbmg

Okay, then that aside, is it still possible for me to change my trade choices without having to wait, and reapply in the new fiscal year?


----------



## GAP

check with the recruiting office.


----------



## Scott

I am trying to say the following gently...

*Contact your CFRC*

And new members wonder why the more seasoned folks here get pissed off and eventually snap in the recruiting threads, or ignore them altogether. The above line has been repeated several times in this thread alone.

People have to learn to accept the following:
-The CF is full. Short of hanging a "Closed" sign on the CFRC's, which would just cause the forums to implode with all of the associated panic and hand wringing, it cannot be spelled out more clearly.
-As such, what you think is a "solid application" might not be so solid after all. Less jobs and more competition. Do the math.
-They do not generally process files when there are no jobs to be had. If they did then there'd be a whole host of people bitching that the CFRC wasted their time by processing them for nothing.
-Desire to join, and a feeling that you'd do well, doesn't stack up very high. It does matter but it's not the be-all, end-all.

The above list is not exhaustive.

Locked

Scott
Staff

Edited to highlight the very first line, it was missed by someone...


----------



## kubota99

Sorry for bringing this topic back to life...

I was wondering if we could be made aware of where our files are at? 

I might not be very clear, but yeah, if anyone understands, I'd love to find that out!


----------



## The_Falcon

Your files will be where ever you did your medical.


----------



## Jimmy_D

If your are looking at the ref. of when your file is copied and sent do DMCA. Then when the file gets to DMCA, they should send your unit a notice.

Be patient though, it can take some time for the files to get copied ans sent off.


----------



## kubota99

Ok, good to know! Thanks for the answers.


----------



## seawolf

Just an FYI - sometimes it take quite a while to approve when you have additional medical notes, etc.

I had my medical July 17th - I was deemed medically fit September 14th. YAY! Except my selection date was Aug 29th.

Nothing I could do - and just had to grin and bear it - and wait for next fiscal.


----------



## kubota99

I think I might have to bear and wait as well, but hey, I still have years ahead of me!


----------



## davidf33

Today I received a letter saying that I did not meet the principles of Universality of Service and thus the Common Enrollment Medical Standards.  I have an allergy to seafood, primarily cod, salmon, and halibut.  My allergist prescribed me with an EpiPen about 3 years ago.  This was a concern when I did my medical exam so I had to get some FDL's filled out and I also had my allergies retested.  The results came back to be a mild reaction to fish, compared to a severe reaction from years before.  I brought my results, along with my FDL's, back to the recruiting center and they were sent off to Ottawa.  I don't know how a mild reaction would cause me to be rejected.  Keep in mind I don't even own an EpiPen now, I've never used an EpiPen, nor have I ever had any severe reaction or emergency care as a result of my allergies.  It has been an extremely frustrating process, especially since all I have to do is avoid eating fish.  My symptoms are mild, if I did happen to accidentally eat fish, it's not like I would continue to eat the rest of it. I would obviously know it was fish and not eat anymore of it. Also, my reaction is mild so the need for an EpiPen isn't there.  I tried getting a letter from my allergist stating that I don't need one but he told me that he recommends them to all his patients, "just in case".  This is clearly just to cover his own ass.  The worst part of this whole thing is knowing that if you are prescribed with an EpiPen once you are already in the Canadian Forces then there's no problem with that.  It just doesn't seem to be fair to me at all.  If I had my time back I wouldn't of even said I had allergies.  Does anybody have some advice that would do me any good? I'm planning on appealing their decision and discussing why I disagree with it.  If anybody has some helpful information with regards to this situation it would be greatly appreciated! Also, If anybody could share some insight on my chances of changing their decision please let me know!

Thanks, 
David


----------



## Michael OLeary

While your condition may be considered now, under relatively ideal conditions, to be a "mild reaction," this will not necessarily be the case under all circumstances. If you are under stress, suffering from sleep deprivation, an irregular diet, perhaps with an immune system already challenged by acclimatization to new environmental conditions, that mild reaction could turn into a fatal one. It is not the CF's responsibility to take a chance on your life just because you want to join the Army.


----------



## Jammer

You have an existing medical condition that does not meet the requirements of UoS. 

Unless you can produce something from a doc that states you are not at risk....good luck.

You weren't thinking of the Navy BTW?


----------



## PMedMoe

If you do not disclose a medical condition and it comes up later, you can be kicked out for irregular enrollment and possibly charged.

Everyone reacts differently to allergies each time they are exposed.  There is no way to predict whether it will be more or less severe.

There's no possible way that you or anyone else could ensure that you avoid fish or fish products 100%.

As far as the epi-pen prescription, if I were the doctor, I'd want to cover my ass too.  And people who get them _after_ enrollment have already undergone training and retaining them makes economic sense.  Enrolling someone knowing the condition exists does not.

All you can do is carry on with your appeal and hope for the best.


----------



## davidf33

Jammer said:
			
		

> You have an existing medical condition that does not meet the requirements of UoS.
> 
> Unless you can produce something from a doc that states you are not at risk....good luck.
> 
> You weren't thinking of the Navy BTW?




Yeah I applied for E-Tech in the Navy.


----------



## davidf33

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> If you do not disclose a medical condition and it comes up later, you can be kicked out for irregular enrollment and possibly charged.
> 
> Everyone reacts differently to allergies each time they are exposed.  There is no way to predict whether it will be more or less severe.
> 
> There's no possible way that you or anyone else could ensure that you avoid fish or fish products 100%.
> 
> As far as the epi-pen prescription, if I were the doctor, I'd want to cover my *** too.  And people who get them _after_ enrollment have already undergone training and retaining them makes economic sense.  Enrolling someone knowing the condition exists does not.
> 
> All you can do is carry on with your appeal and hope for the best.




It just doesn't seem fair to deny somebody because of an allergy.  For me it's as simple as avoidance.  If I eat fish that's my own fault.  It seems to me that it would make sense to sign a form before enrollment that states it is completely my responsibility to avoid fish and the blame can't be on the CF.  It's just extremely frustrating because this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, and a stupid allergy is holding me back


----------



## PMedMoe

davidf33 said:
			
		

> It just doesn't seem fair to deny somebody because of an allergy.  For me it's as simple as avoidance.  If I eat fish that's my own fault.  It seems to me that it would make sense to sign a form before enrollment that states it is completely my responsibility to avoid fish and the blame can't be on the CF.  It's just extremely frustrating because this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, and a stupid allergy is holding me back



For _you_ it might be as simple as avoidance.  There's lots of products that contain fish that you might not even think of and there's also the possibility of cross-contamination.  And a form doesn't remove the responsibility of the CF to treat you medically in the event something were to happen.  People have been turned down for peanut allergies, bee sting allergies, etc.

I can understand how frustrating it might be, but that doesn't change the CF enrollment standards.


----------



## davidf33

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> For _you_ it might be as simple as avoidance.  There's lots of products that contain fish that you might not even think of and there's also the possibility of cross-contamination.  And a form doesn't remove the responsibility of the CF to treat you medically in the event something were to happen.  People have been turned down for peanut allergies, bee sting allergies, etc.
> 
> I can understand how frustrating it might be, but that doesn't change the CF enrollment standards.


  

Yeah I understand that.  Most restaurants fry all everything in the same oil they fry their fish in.  This was a concern of my Medical Officer as he explained the food in mess hall.  I've yet to encounter a reaction from eating at a restaurant that have fish on their menu, and I know for a fact they don't fry fish separately.  I've even accidentally eaten a piece of fish because I took it for a chicken strip, and again no reaction.  Also, the I've never had a reaction due to the smell.  My mother always cooks fish in the house.  Again guys i'm not writing this to complain, I just want to know if I have a chance whatsoever of changing their minds.  It's driving me insane.


----------



## PMedMoe

As I said, all you can do is appeal.  We can't (and won't) answer medical questions here.


----------



## DAA

I went through the whole battery of allergy testing in my early teens.  Was flagged as being "highly reactive" to tobacco.  Maybe I should quite smoking?


----------



## JM2345

Hi David, I am also going through the application process and expect to have to go through medical soon and I am concerned about them rejecting me too. From what I am reading, they want to know that in the worst case scenario, you aren't going to get sick/die due to a pre-existing condition. 

Consider that you may get stranded on a boat in the Navy, and the food supply runs low and the only food which can be prepared is Fish. Under those circumstances, you would die within a couple days, while others without an allergy would live and be able to continue in their jobs fairly normally.

Going back in time and not disclosing something to the CF would be a bad move, and unfortunately it makes people think you aren't CF material. I am going to disclose everything to them, and be completely honest. If the medically disqualify me, I have to accept that and move on from there. Not disclosing everything wont even enter my thought process. Definitely I encourage you to file an appeal, but from what I have seen from others, food allergies are almost always an immediate disqualifier with no chance of them changing their minds. 

I'm not sure how old you are, but there is always the chance your body will change and be able to tolerate fish with no reaction in the future.

It really does suck, especially when you may have waited months to get this far, but they have these guidelines for a reason. It isn't just about your safety or their liability with your health. They need to think about people who may end up counting on you to watch their back. If you and a partner get thrown somewhere with a couple packs of seafood rations, you aren't going to be any good to him.

Try to remain positive.

Edit: 
Also, as far as the appeal goes, I think the only way they will change their decision is if you can get an allergist/allergy doctor sign off saying that you would not need any emergency intervention/medicine in the case of eating fish. Unfortunately, I doubt any doctor would say that. But that is realistically your best bet. See another doctor, and get their opinion on it. If they recommend you carry an epi-pen too, I just cant see them changing their minds.


----------



## Loachman

davidf33 said:
			
		

> It just doesn't seem fair



Fairness is not part of the equation.

The CF does not exist to give people jobs or opportunities for dream-fulfillment. It exists to defend this Country and its Citizens. Everything must be geared to that purpose.

Standards have been set in support of that aim. One either meets them, or one does not.

That may sound harsh, but so is the reality of our profession: it involves human lives.

It is not about you as much as it is about the lives and well-being of those who might rely upon you.


----------



## The_Falcon

davidf33 said:
			
		

> It just doesn't seem fair to deny somebody because of an allergy.  For me it's as simple as avoidance.  If I eat fish that's my own fault.  It seems to me that it would make sense to sign a form before enrollment that states it is completely my responsibility to avoid fish and the blame can't be on the CF.  It's just extremely frustrating because this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, and a stupid allergy is holding me back



Life isn't fair, some people just aren't cut out to be in the military, it's as simple as that.


----------



## lee465

I had the same situation as you David. I had a mild reaction to shellfish and had to undergo allergy testing, blood testing, and a food challenge test. However, in my case, my allergy to shellfish wasn't as bad as it seemed on paper. I would be able to eat shellfish with very minimal reactions which wasn't consistent with what the allergy testing showed (showed that I was deathly allergic). I explained to both the medical technician and the allergist about my situation and the allergist suggested I bring in lunch with shellfish in it and eat it in front of her. I did so (a plate of pasta with shrimp) and she observed me for about an hour or so. I had no noticeable reaction and nothing to show that it was serious. I got her to fill out a form which the medical technician said I would need for the appeal and I took it back to the RC. They sent it to Ottawa and six weeks later, I get a letter back saying that I am now medically  fit.

Keep your head up and if you really believe that what it says on paper doesn't reflect you accurately, try to do something about it. I was devastated when I got the letter from the RMO but I talked to the recruiters, the medical technician and officer, and my allergist to set things straight.


----------



## SentryMAn

You'd miss out on the best IMP's!


----------



## pointfiveoh

lee465 said:
			
		

> I had the same situation as you David. I had a mild reaction to shellfish and had to undergo allergy testing, blood testing, and a food challenge test. However, in my case, my allergy to shellfish wasn't as bad as it seemed on paper. I would be able to eat shellfish with very minimal reactions which wasn't consistent with what the allergy testing showed (showed that I was deathly allergic). I explained to both the medical technician and the allergist about my situation and the allergist suggested I bring in lunch with shellfish in it and eat it in front of her. I did so (a plate of pasta with shrimp) and she observed me for about an hour or so. I had no noticeable reaction and nothing to show that it was serious. I got her to fill out a form which the medical technician said I would need for the appeal and I took it back to the RC. They sent it to Ottawa and six weeks later, I get a letter back saying that I am now medically  fit.
> 
> Keep your head up and if you really believe that what it says on paper doesn't reflect you accurately, try to do something about it. I was devastated when I got the letter from the RMO but I talked to the recruiters, the medical technician and officer, and my allergist to set things straight.



That's a seriously awesome story, haha I was thinking of suggesting he pack a tuna sandwich for his appeal but I didn't think it'd actually work until I read this!


----------



## Jammer

If I were you, I wouldn't be tossing rocks at someone else's case.

You're not in either mate...and this guy has a better chance than you. 

At least he seems like he has a little bit of integrity.


----------



## OldSolduer

davidf33 said:
			
		

> It just doesn't seem fair to deny somebody because of an allergy.  For me it's as simple as avoidance.  If I eat fish that's my own fault.  It seems to me that it would make sense to sign a form before enrollment that states it is completely my responsibility to avoid fish and the blame can't be on the CF.  It's just extremely frustrating because this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, and a stupid allergy is holding me back



My two cents:

1. Your allergy puts yourself at risk;
2. Your allergy may put others at risk. If you ingest fish and have a severe allergic reaction, someone has to do something about it. This may put their lives in danger as well; and
3. The CF is all about defending this nation, NOT about you and it desire to be in the CF.


----------



## davidf33

lee465 said:
			
		

> I had the same situation as you David. I had a mild reaction to shellfish and had to undergo allergy testing, blood testing, and a food challenge test. However, in my case, my allergy to shellfish wasn't as bad as it seemed on paper. I would be able to eat shellfish with very minimal reactions which wasn't consistent with what the allergy testing showed (showed that I was deathly allergic). I explained to both the medical technician and the allergist about my situation and the allergist suggested I bring in lunch with shellfish in it and eat it in front of her. I did so (a plate of pasta with shrimp) and she observed me for about an hour or so. I had no noticeable reaction and nothing to show that it was serious. I got her to fill out a form which the medical technician said I would need for the appeal and I took it back to the RC. They sent it to Ottawa and six weeks later, I get a letter back saying that I am now medically  fit.
> 
> Keep your head up and if you really believe that what it says on paper doesn't reflect you accurately, try to do something about it. I was devastated when I got the letter from the RMO but I talked to the recruiters, the medical technician and officer, and my allergist to set things straight.



I wonder if the Medical Officer here would do the same.  Thanks for your story though, helps a lot.  I believe that I'm not at risk of anything severe, the worst that has happened thus far was my lips swelled up after eating a full serving of salmon.  I have a doctors appointment on Tuesday and I'm going to see if he will write a letter for me to go along with my appeal.  My allergist had refused to write a letter saying that an EpiPen is unnecessary because he recommends them to all his patients and believes everyone should have one just in case.  I'm thinking about trying Cod at home one day this week, and if all goes well I could phone the Medical Officer and ask him if I can do a food challenge right in front of him.  Do you think this would be alright or would I have to go to an actual allergist to do my food challenge first? I've already gotten my allergist to refer me to somebody that does food challenges as he does not do them himself.  He didn't give me a time frame on how long it would take though and as of right now I'm tired of waiting. The sooner i can get the appeal over with the better, but by all means whatever I can do to harden my case I'll surely do it.


----------



## lee465

I believe you would have to go to your allergist first. They pretty much call the shots on whether you need an Epi pen or not which is what the CAF really cares about (or so I was told by the medical officer). If you do not need an epi pen, then the CAF would be more inclined to consider you medically fit (the medical officer told me it was adamant that I am not prescribed an epi pen), but once again, that's up to your allergist to decide.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Keep trying different allergists.


----------



## Motard

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Keep trying different allergists.



I was just about to say this as well, if the reaction is as minimal as you describe you could probably find someone else that's willing to remove the epi-pen prescription.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Motard said:
			
		

> I was just about to say this as well, if the reaction is as minimal as you describe you could probably find someone else that's willing to remove the epi-pen prescription.



Considering how easy doctors hand out oxy he should have no problems.


----------



## ModlrMike

What you consider a mild reaction, and what the CF / RMO considers a mild reaction can be vastly different. In my judgement, ANY oral symptoms would be grounds for disqualification. That you haven't had what you consider a severe reaction yet, doesn't mean you won't.


----------



## PMedMoe

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> What you consider a mild reaction, and what the CF / RMO considers a mild reaction can be vastly different. In my judgement, ANY oral symptoms would be grounds for disqualification. That you haven't had what you consider a severe reaction yet, doesn't mean you won't.



Exactly.  Swelling lips may lead very quickly to a airway being blocked.


----------



## medicineman

To echo Mike, upper airway symptoms are pretty serious - the airways swell shut at the drop of a hat for lesser things - an the mouth is part of the upper airway.  I'd likely lean towards a nay for you as well based on that.

As for folks suggesting shopping for docs, one of the questions that people neglect to read on the little form letters eople have to get filled out by their doctors is this one: "How long has this person been under your care?" - the RMO reads this as much as the medical folks do for people getting driver licensing medicals done and really do take that into account.  So if you're thinking of going to a doc in a box or trying to get referrred to allergist after allergist until someone tells you what you WANT to hear versus what you NEED to hear, well, I think you're going to be in for a long wait and likely a negative response.

Mike, myself and others in this forum have said this numerous times - it's not personal, it business.  The CAF do not owe you a job - there are entry medical standards and continuing medical standards that have to be met and if you don't meet them, then sorry, but you have to find other employment suitable to you.  Those standards are in place to ensure the safety of you and all others that might have to look after you, evacuate you and replace you if this condition rears its ugly head in the nether regions of the world.

 :2c:

MM


----------



## goinghomebroke

Well, tough luck. I suggest you fight this. I personally know someone who is allergic to bee stings and is in a field unit. so this makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## George Wallace

goinghomebroke said:
			
		

> Well, tough luck. I suggest you fight this. I personally know someone who is allergic to bee stings and is in a field unit. so this makes absolutely no sense.



 :

Do you now?  And when was this person diagnosed with this allergy and prescribed an epipen?  Was it while they were serving or while they were in the Enrolment Process?  There are big differences to be said here as to whom will be accepted and whom is already serving.  So, although it may not make sense to you; it does have a lot of credibility to it.


----------



## Motard

medicineman said:
			
		

> As for folks suggesting shopping for docs, one of the questions that people neglect to read on the little form letters eople have to get filled out by their doctors is this one: "How long has this person been under your care?" - the RMO reads this as much as the medical folks do for people getting driver licensing medicals done and really do take that into account.



I went to a walk-in clinic to get my medical done, wasn't an issue.


----------



## JM2345

Motard said:
			
		

> I went to a walk-in clinic to get my medical done, wasn't an issue.



Thanks for this post. I don't have a doctor, so I was hoping that a walk-in clinic doctor and some specialist referrals would be acceptable. Although it may not be ideal, and they may take it in to consideration, acceptable is better than nothing.


----------



## Jester_TG

I'm sure there are 100's if not 1000's of applicants to the CF that do not have a family physician. Many people use walk-ins as their primary care source. I'm sure RC's see it all the time.


----------



## medicineman

Jester_TG said:
			
		

> I'm sure there are 100's if not 1000's of applicants to the CF that do not have a family physician. Many people use walk-ins as their primary care source. I'm sure RC's see it all the time.



The folks that use a doc in a box as their family doc have ongoing records there, so the the examining physician can say (if it's not their usual) "today - chart available"; if they have a real family doc and go to a WIC, the answer will be "today - no chart available" to comment on what things are, were and are heading.  Certain conditions will have that looked at quite unfavourably.  I actually just had one come through my office - a change because I was the one giving them out.  And I had to answer "today, no chart available", so that poor soul could easily be getting that "we'd like to hear from your real doctor" letter.

MM


----------



## ModlrMike

Using a WIC as you primary care provider is not at all unusual nor frowned upon. Just because you don't have a regular physician, doesn't mean you don't have a chart at the clinic. Shopping around for a specialist who will give you a favourable recommendation is another thing altogether and will likely work against you. At some point you might have to accept that everyone gets to apply, not everyone gets to join.


----------



## Jester_TG

True - good point on the chart thing. I forgot that section of the form.


----------



## Motard

My medical was done the first and only time I stepped foot in that walk-in clinic, there definitely was no previous chart.


----------



## davidf33

Thanks for all the input.  Today I had my FDL filled out again.  My family doctor in which I've been in the care of for 21 years has said that based on my latest allergy test results, there is no reason for me to have an EpiPen.  Like I said before, my allergist recommends them to everyone as a precaution.  My doctor agreed with this, noting that technically everybody should carry an EpiPen in that case because really nobody knows exactly what they're allergic to.  We could all have a severe allergy to something but we just haven't been exposed to it.  But with regards to my case he cleared me of needing an EpiPen and said that my allergy is mild and normal with no risk of anaphylaxis whatsoever.  I'm still planning on getting a food challenge completed so I will have more evidence to back up my appeal.  I know I can pass the food challenge as I have already eaten fish lately and did so with minimal reaction.  I have no reason not to believe that my chances of getting accepted this time around are greater.  What do you guys think? I mean this is a doctor telling me I do not have a severe reaction, why would the Medical Officers in Ottawa look at it and say "No, it's severe".  Let me know if you guys think I have a better chance this time, again, all your feedback is greatly appreciated.  And as for the person in an earlier post that said "some people just aren't cut out for the military", you're an idiot.  As if complete dumb asses haven't been accepted before.  Just because I have an allergy doesn't mean I'm not cut out for it, if I do get accepted I'd probably make half the recruits look dumb with regards to fitness.  I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.

Thanks again, 
David


----------



## Motard

davidf33 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the input.  Today I had my FDL filled out again.  My family doctor in which I've been in the care of for 21 years has said that based on my latest allergy test results, there is no reason for me to have an EpiPen.  Like I said before, my allergist recommends them to everyone as a precaution.  My doctor agreed with this, noting that technically everybody should carry an EpiPen in that case because really nobody knows exactly what they're allergic to.  We could all have a severe allergy to something but we just haven't been exposed to it.  But with regards to my case he cleared me of needing an EpiPen and said that my allergy is mild and normal with no risk of anaphylaxis whatsoever.  I'm still planning on getting a food challenge completed so I will have more evidence to back up my appeal.  I know I can pass the food challenge as I have already eaten fish lately and did so with minimal reaction.  I have no reason not to believe that my chances of getting accepted this time around are greater.  What do you guys think? I mean this is a doctor telling me I do not have a severe reaction, why would the Medical Officers in Ottawa look at it and say "No, it's severe".  Let me know if you guys think I have a better chance this time, again, all your feedback is greatly appreciated.  And as for the person in an earlier post that said "some people just aren't cut out for the military", you're an idiot.  As if complete dumb asses haven't been accepted before.  Just because I have an allergy doesn't mean I'm not cut out for it, if I do get accepted I'd probably make half the recruits look dumb with regards to fitness.  I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.
> 
> Thanks again,
> David



Go for it, looks like you've made some progress and are in a better situation then last time. It doesn't really matter what anyone on a message board "thinks", you just need the approval of those at the CFRC.


----------



## Jarnhamar

davidf33 said:
			
		

> And as for the person in an earlier post that said "some people just aren't cut out for the military", you're an idiot.  As if complete dumb asses haven't been accepted before.  Just because I have an allergy doesn't mean I'm not cut out for it, if I do get accepted I'd probably make half the recruits look dumb with regards to fitness.  I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.
> 
> Thanks again,
> David



So the guy crying about having an allergy and how the army isn't fair is calling someone else an idiot?
Sorry David there's lots about the army that isn't fair, that's not going to change.

And some people just aren't cut out for the military too. Especially so if they have an allergy which makes them a possible burden.
You don't get to control the tone in which people respond to your posts, deal with it.
I'm sure you meant if given the chance you might make the other recruits look unfit with regard to their fitness, right?


----------



## lee465

davidf33 said:
			
		

> And as for the person in an earlier post that said "some people just aren't cut out for the military", you're an idiot.  As if complete dumb asses haven't been accepted before.  Just because I have an allergy doesn't mean I'm not cut out for it, if I do get accepted I'd probably make half the recruits look dumb with regards to fitness.  I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.



I don't think the earlier post was meant to be a personal attack on you so I don't think its necessary to call them an idiot and if your allergy is severe enough, then yes, you're not cut out for the military. And although you may be superior in fitness, your behaviour and attitude needs adjustment as intelligence and mental strength is just as important.

Do the food challenge, get the forms signed, take it to the recruiting centre. Hope for the best and expect for the worst. Cheers.


----------



## George Wallace

davidf33 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the input.  Today I had my FDL filled out again.  My family doctor in which I've been in the care of for 21 years has said that based on my latest allergy test results, there is no reason for me to have an EpiPen.  Like I said before, my allergist recommends them to everyone as a precaution.  My doctor agreed with this, noting that technically everybody should carry an EpiPen in that case because really nobody knows exactly what they're allergic to.  We could all have a severe allergy to something but we just haven't been exposed to it.  But with regards to my case he cleared me of needing an EpiPen and said that my allergy is mild and normal with no risk of anaphylaxis whatsoever.  I'm still planning on getting a food challenge completed so I will have more evidence to back up my appeal.  I know I can pass the food challenge as I have already eaten fish lately and did so with minimal reaction.  I have no reason not to believe that my chances of getting accepted this time around are greater.  What do you guys think? I mean this is a doctor telling me I do not have a severe reaction, why would the Medical Officers in Ottawa look at it and say "No, it's severe".  Let me know if you guys think I have a better chance this time, again, all your feedback is greatly appreciated.  And as for the person in an earlier post that said "some people just aren't cut out for the military", you're an idiot.  As if complete dumb asses haven't been accepted before.  Just because I have an allergy doesn't mean I'm not cut out for it, if I do get accepted I'd probably make half the recruits look dumb with regards to fitness.  I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.
> 
> Thanks again,
> David



Quite the attitude there David.

First off; your doctor may figure that you are fairly safe to be employed in "any civilian" job.  The CAF doctors may have higher standards that must be met for people to be employed in the military.  As George Orwell wrote; "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".


----------



## Loachman

davidf33 said:
			
		

> I have no reason not to believe that my chances of getting accepted this time around are greater.  What do you guys think?



That's a definite maybe, or maybe not.

Nobody here can tell you. None of us are the medical authority, and none of us are in possession of your file.

You will not know until your application is processed.



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> I mean this is a doctor telling me I do not have a severe reaction, why would the Medical Officers in Ottawa look at it and say "No, it's severe".



Because they are looking at it from a different angle, perhaps - considering the conditions to which you could be exposed if you are accepted.



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> And as for the person in an earlier post that said "some people just aren't cut out for the military", you're an idiot.



Well, many are not, for a variety of reasons. That is a fact.



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> As if complete dumb asses haven't been accepted before.



Many have been.



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> Just because I have an allergy doesn't mean I'm not cut out for it,



That is neither for us nor you to say. Your first step is to get past the recruiting process. Then it gets a little more challenging.



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> if I do get accepted



If...



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> I'd probably make half the recruits look dumb with regards to fitness.



I've never heard the term "dumb" used in regards to fitness before, but there could be many that make you look "dumb" that way, too.



			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.



You only want to hear positive stuff? This is not Attaboy.ca. We will be as honest and factual as possible, whether people like it or not.



			
				Motard said:
			
		

> It doesn't really matter what anyone on a message board "thinks",



He is asking just that, you know.



			
				Motard said:
			
		

> you just need the approval of those at the CFRC.



No. He needs the approval of people higher than that.



			
				lee465 said:
			
		

> Do the food challenge, get the forms signed, take it to the recruiting centre. Hope for the best and expect for the worst.



And that is the best thing that anybody here can tell you, and it's pretty standard advice.


----------



## lee465

George Wallace said:
			
		

> "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".





			
				davidf33 said:
			
		

> I asked for positive feedback, lets keep it that way.



"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
Clever chap, Orwell. Love his work.

Cheer up david, your experiencing liberty!  ;D


----------



## davidf33

I don't have an attitude nor do I need an attitude adjustment. I Should of just ignored it but he the fact that his post was directed at me made me a little hot. I'm not here to brag about fitness or anything,  I just want feedback.  I don't care who's cut out for the military and who isn't. Personally, knowing some close friends that have got accepted and are currently serving with our military, I know that I am !00% cut out.  I just want your honest opinion on my chances of getting in given the medical information i provided.  Like I said it's been a frustrating process so I apologize for offending anyone. 

Thanks again


----------



## mariomike

davidf33 said:
			
		

> My family doctor in which I've been in the care of for 21 years has said that based on my latest allergy test results, there is no reason for me to have an EpiPen. Like I said before, my allergist recommends them to everyone as a precaution.  My doctor agreed with this, noting that technically everybody should carry an EpiPen in that case because really nobody knows exactly what they're allergic to.  We could all have a severe allergy to something but we just haven't been exposed to it.  But with regards to my case he cleared me of needing an EpiPen and said that my allergy is mild and normal with no risk of anaphylaxis whatsoever.



You might find this topic helpful.

The Recruiting Office > Enrollment Medical > Allergies in the CF  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12898.0


----------



## SeR

davidf33 said:
			
		

> I just want your honest opinion on my chances of getting in given the medical information i provided.



It seems that you don't understand that the "honest opinions" of milnet.ca users *does not matter* at all. All that matters is the opinion of whichever medical officer will be looking over your medical file. Everyone on this site can tell you that your chances of getting in are incredible and that there's no way you won't pass the medical, but if the guy behind that desk in Ottawa thinks otherwise, you're SOL.


----------



## jwtg

davidf33 said:
			
		

> I don't have an attitude nor do I need an attitude adjustment.


Based on what I've read so far, I'm inclined to disagree.  If you get in, let me know what your BMQ staff think of your attitude.




> I Should of just ignored it but he the fact that his post was directed at me made me a little hot. I'm not here to brag about fitness or anything,  I just want feedback.


If you're not here to brag about fitness, then why are you bragging about fitness?  Also, you should 'have' ('should of' makes no sense) just ignored it.  If you want to make people look dumb, then you should show that you have a better grasp of language than they do.


> I don't care who's cut out for the military and who isn't.


Then why the strong reaction?  Also, I imagine you have a vested interest in whether or not *you're* cut out for the military.  I, as a taxpayer and as a CF member, also care quite a bit about who is or is not cut out for the military.



> Personally, knowing some close friends that have got accepted and are currently serving with our military, I know that I am !00% cut out.  I just want your honest opinion on my chances of getting in given the medical information i provided.  Like I said it's been a frustrating process so I apologize for offending anyone.
> 
> Thanks again



Confidence is nice, but without having been through CF recruiting and training, there is no way that you know whether or not you're cut out for it.  Also, in addition to all the required physical and character traits, the CF also has medical requirements.  You will either meet them or you won't, and that will determine whether you are cut out for military service or not (at least, from a medical perspective).


It would probably serve you well to take advice from experienced members of this forum rather than lash out at them.  Advice isn't going to come in the form of positive feedback when you're on course; it will often come in the form of yelling or corrective training.  

Good luck with your application and medical issues.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

davidf33 said:
			
		

> ... I Should of just ignored it but he the fact that his post was directed at me made me a little hot... I just want feedback....
> 
> Personally, knowing some close friends that have got accepted and are currently serving with our military, I know that I am !00% cut out....
> 
> I just want your honest opinion on my chances of getting in given the medical information i provided.  Like I said it's been a frustrating process so I apologize for offending anyone.
> 
> Thanks again



While there are several users who understand your frustration(s), you need to realize that when expressing yourself in a venue such as this, you're opening yourself up to everyone's interpretation of your words and their meaning.  As well, since you specifically stated you wanted "feedback," you are also inviting the opinions of others onto yourself. You may not like what they have to say, nor how they say it.  But as mentioned in another reply, you're expressing yourself among military personnel. (As well as several other occupations, which are typically very direct in their approach to communication.) Things are generally bluntly stated--maybe even harshly so.

In my opinion, while you feel you may be just as "cut out" as your friends who you said are serving, the bottom line is that if they don't have a condition similar to yours that 'might' hinder their enrollment, then that fact alone makes them _more_ cut out for the CF than you.  This isn't said to be a shot against you in the least, it's just how I view your reasoning.

Several users _have_ given you their "honest opinion" on your chances. And it has also been said repeatedly that it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks about your specific situation.  No one here can give you a definitive answer as to how things will end up for you.


----------



## JesseWZ

davidf33 said:
			
		

> I don't have an attitude nor do I need an attitude adjustment. I Should of just ignored it but he the fact that his post was directed at me made me a little hot. I'm not here to brag about fitness or anything,  I just want feedback.  I don't care who's cut out for the military and who isn't. Personally, knowing some close friends that have got accepted and are currently serving with our military, I know that I am !00% cut out.  I just want your honest opinion on my chances of getting in given the medical information i provided.  Like I said it's been a frustrating process so I apologize for offending anyone.
> 
> Thanks again



David,

If you are getting all hot and bothered about this, the military is going to be a big kick in the junk. 
Your instructors will (probably possibly) be fitter than you, and may even cast aspersions about your relative level of fitness as compared.

 Additionally, what qualifies you to determine yourself fit to serve with us? Maybe your friends have qualities in them you have never witnessed and thus far you yourself have *not* displayed here. 

Good luck in the enrollment process.


----------



## The_Falcon

That person who made that comment, was me.  Based on the further comments you have made David, and the further dissection of your comments by other members, I stand by my previous statement.  You come off as someone, who thinks they are better than others based on a small aspect of themselves (even though are trying to back pedal hard), that being fitness.  And while more recruits should be coming in with higher fitness level, the reality is, fitness is something that is easily improved in most people if they take the time to improve it.  Character traits/flaws however... 


1) You have a SERIOUS ATTITUDE PROBLEM.  You haven't even completed the recruiting process and you are already slagging people you haven't even met, and who quite possibly, might be OVERALL a better recruit than YOU.   Fitness is just one part of the equation, and seeing as how you are not in, you have NO CLUE whether or not your fitness is up to par.  IF (and it's a big IF), you actually get on a BMQ, you may find your self in the situation where all your course staff are Fitness Junkies, and have done time in Light Inf Btls, Para Coys, CANSOF, or just generally have many years of humping heavy loads, long distances with minimal rest, and THEN doing highspeed army stuff, and loving every miserable painful second of it.  I guarantee you if that divine providence happens, your concept of how fit you THINK YOU ARE  will be utterly and mercilessly shattered. 

2) You want POSITIVE and possible ERRONEOUS information and a nice little pat on the head, stick to your friends and family.  The rest of us don't know you from a hole in the ground, and therefore  are more likely to give you information/advice that is untainted with bias in your favour, unlike what you will hear from people you know.  If that is something you don't wish to hear, or angers you or annoys you... TOUGH ****.  Owing to the fact that many of us have either served previously, continue to serve, or have friends/family currently serving, the only thing we care about is that the CAF recruits  the best possible candidates for their chosen occupations, and that they do not put anyone else (ie ourselves/people we know), at undo risk.  Your feelings (and the feelings of anyone else in your situation), mean SFA to us. 

3) You are NOT ENTITLED to serve in the CAF, NO ONE IS.  It is a PRIVILEGE  to serve.  The only entitlement one has, is the ability to apply.  Which you have duly executed.  Beyond that the CAF owes you nothing.


----------



## xo31@711ret

My doctor agreed with this, noting that technically everybody should carry an EpiPen in that case because really nobody knows exactly what they're allergic to.  

...'technically' by that reasoning, then we should all carry O2 tanks, tric kits... 
I've been retired from the regs out of CFRC Freddy-town since 06 & out the res 010. So last recruit applicant medical I've done was at least 3 years ago. But as Mike & MM will tell you (& I'm pretty sure they would - we've known and-or worked with each other for well over 10 years & Mike & I were remusters on the same TQ3 back in the mid 80's); whenever I gave a family doctor letter to an applicant, I always told the individual to inform his doc that he is applying to the MILITARY & could be away from Tertiary like medical care for 6 or more months at a time; & please try to have the family doc avoid phrases such as, 'could haves' - 'should haves'. All this did, AT BEST, was a recommended G3O3 (at best), file sent to Ottawa. The file & an RMO letter were usually sent back from Ottawa to the area centre requiring a clarification to the individual's family doc: costing more time... At worst, it was a 'FAIL TO MEET CEMS'  (Common Enrolment Medical Standards)


----------



## medicineman

I'd like to add a few things - first my opinions are based on training and experience in this world.  As noted by a few thus far, many civilian physicians haven't a schmick what we do or where we go and what we have around us when we're doing it.  I've lost count of all the "little Johnny would do great in the Army, despite all the meds they're on etc ad nauseum", when Little Johnny is in fact a little wanker that mommy and daddy are trying to pawn off on what they perceive as Her Majesty's Babysitting Service.   Second, I've learned over the years that you have to be blunt and up front to people so as not to get folks' hopes up about things.  People really need to be told what they need to hear, not what they want to hear - a problem that is rampant in our society right now.  It's something I try to do in my civilian practice and when dealing with subordinates in green.  If you don't handle blunt and up front well, you're not going to deal well with the military - FULL STOP.

Good luck to you, genuinely...but be prepared for that "So sorry" letter.

MM


----------



## xo31@711ret

S,  I wish there was a 'like' option for these posts...  :camo:

what MM said...    :nod:


----------



## dapaterson

xo31@711ret said:
			
		

> S,  I wish there was a 'like' option for these posts...  :camo:
> 
> what MM said...    :nod:



You can click on the "Rate Post" text to the left of the post to indicate whether you like / dislike the post, and to award or deduct points from users.


----------



## nero231

Hi all
Just wondering if I can run a question by you all. I had my physical, questionairre, and interview on May 21. Today I received a letter in the mail informing me I was not approved. To make a long story short , my doctor put me on medication less then a year ago for mild anxiety and mild ocd. All of the medical forms I submitted all clearly stared that the issues were due to my current job. Even my MO agreed that doctors can be quick to assume that medication will fix everything. Anyway, my question is is there any point in appealing the decision or is it best to wait the year to reapply? And if I do wait the year, will this still impact me then? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.


----------



## sunnyblueskies

I would suggest you try to get off of the meds asap if you want to try and apply again in a year, plus, document when you went off of the meds. The military seems very very touchy when it comes to anti-depressants etc. A lot of CF members, especially ones who were deployed come back with PTSD, but didn't have it previously. Now imagine, a recruit is signed up already with having anxiety etc. problems and being medicated for it, how is this recruit going to deal with added stress etc. while being in the service? 

I know, it sucks, there are so many 'minor' (we think) issues, health wise which just slam the doors to the military right in front of our nose, so to speak. What's wrong, what's right?! Opinions differ so greatly about this issue.


----------



## PMedMoe

sunnyblueskies said:
			
		

> A lot of CF members, especially ones who were deployed come back with PTSD, but didn't have it previously.  Or at least had never been diagnosed with it, or anything similar....



FTFY.   :nod:


----------



## sunnyblueskies

True!!

_"Or at least had never been diagnosed with it, or anything similar...."_


----------



## MAJONES

I had similar troubles when I was going through the recruiting process; the RMO did not like my BMI and LDL/HDL levels and declared me unfit.  I called the number listed in the sig block on the RMO's letter and was told that they would consider revising their opinion if I submitted paperwork from an appropriate specialist.  Long story short, I cleaned up my diet, started running and tried working 2 jobs vice the 3 I was holding down at the time.  I got my paperwork in order, fired it of to the RMO and got in.  My advice, contact the RMO's office, see what they say and take it from there.


----------



## medicineman

Since you seem to have an anxiety disorder - OCD is an anxiety disorder - and since Recruit training and military life in general can be anxiety provoking, you're going to want to get that stuff under control and show proof that it is...it's not just about getting off your meds, it's about showing you're in control of your illness and not the other way around. 



			
				sunnyblueskies said:
			
		

> I know, it sucks, there are so many 'minor' (we think) issues, health wise which just slam the doors to the military right in front of our nose, so to speak. What's wrong, what's right?! Opinions differ so greatly about this issue.



The rules aren't arbitrary - they're there based on likely reactions, both physical and mental, that are likely to occur under demanding conditions in potentially remote areas with limited access to skilled medical care, all based on what we know about the natural progress of these disease processes and how they're treated.  

MM

Edited for grammar secondary to caffeine deficiency.
MM


----------



## nero231

Thank you everyone for your input.
I definitely don't mind waiting the extra year to reapply, I figured this would be the time to get myself  to 100% and ensure I am able to complete everything I need to to military standards. So hopefully this time next year I will be receiving a job offer with the CF. Thanks for all of your help.

Cheers!


----------



## Arcset

Hey folks, if you read the title of the topic you might be thinking that I'm asking for advice regarding the appeal process, but rather I'm asking how you could make an argument to get a second review of my file.  I know the military doesn't owe me anything and that I'm not a special snowflake, so that's not the point I'm making. What am asking for is advice on how to proceed, since I'm not alone in thinking the decision was made poorly.  If any of you could spare a few moments, I'd really appreciate the advice/feedback. 



I got the letter of doom stating that I'm medically unfit because of a condition I have known as Raynaud's, which basically means I have bad circulation in my hands. During the medical I brought this up with the med officer who then called someone in Ottawa to ask about the way people with my condition are evaluated, and was told that it's evaluated case-by-case. This is further backed up with the way the condition is outlined in CFP 154 (the common medical standards document) as seen here http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/dermatological-conditions.page (under section 10 part e. iv). After the medical, the officer pointed out that I had prior enlistment into the reserves, and while I wasn't officially diagnosed with the condition at the time, I've had it for my whole life.

Naturally, the medical officer gave me a form to have my family doctor fill out. When I read what she filled out, she gave me best case scenario stating that my condition was mild, required no form of medication other than gloves (such as those in the standard kit) in cold environments (-10 and below), and said I would still be a good applicant.

The problem is that despite doing what the military asked by having this form get filled out, I was still denied. When I was called by a med tech that received my file and explained the situation to him, he said he was also confused why I was declined. I was cleared as medically fit 6 years ago, my condition requires gloves in the standard kit in colder environments (no medication), and I gave them a best case scenario form filled out by my doctor which should have made the difference in an evaluation that apparently is made "case-by-case". I can't shake the feeling that whoever did the final evaluation looked at the condition on my file, did a quick read up on it, and made a decision without consulting what my doctor had even written down.

Is there any way I could request a second review as stated in the letter under the appeal process? So far, it seems the only way to do that is to provide some sort of evidence on how my condition wouldn't affect me, however my condition isn't something well documented. I'll be trying to book an appointment with a specialist later (which will probably get booked a few months from now) and hope that maybe they'll be able to do some sort of test I could use as proof of the mild severity, but in the mean time is there any advice you guys could offer on what I should be doing? If you managed to to get to this point, thank you for giving me part of your time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

tl;dr: considered medically fit 6 years ago, got diagnosed with a condition I've had all my life after prior enlistment, did a new medical earlier this year and was requested to get a form filled out since the condition is evaluated case-by-case, brought in a best case scenario form filled out by my doc, got medically declined despite best case scenario for case-by-case evaluation, unsure how to progress.


----------



## Spartan80

Hello, 

So I applied for the military in august and got to the medical phase of the process, but due to Single sided deafness I was denied, this is the only career that I see myself doing and have no other passion. Could I appeal this decision? The medical officer told me that I could still apply why? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## kratz

When you clicked through all the registration stuff, eager to post your question,
you missed one key point... but wait! 
No matter how much of a rush you are in posting your question, you ignore the caution at the bottom of every page of the site...
*UNOFFICIAL, not part of DND*
You missed the site rules we will not answer personal medical questions.


Despite all of this, you place your confidence in your future career with random strangers online.


----------



## receng

Hey folks,

After two years of process, I now finally have learned that my application to me a CF member has been refused for a failure to adequately meet the CEMS. I fully understand the rationale, and would have chosen similarly had the roles been reversed. 

I have been invited to appeal and have reassessments done in a few months, but I have decided to stop wasting taxpayer money on the process and get out of the way in favour of those applicants still in the pipeline.

I am profoundly disappointed, and searching for ways to be okay with this situation. However, like several have pointed out, the CF does not owe me a job, nor am I required to like the decisions taken by its members.

I just have to get on with the job.

thanks for the information I have got from this board. Mods, kindly remove my profile and account. I have no reason to come back.

good luck, everyone. Check six often, and when in doubt, empty the mag......


----------



## cryco

Sorry to hear that. Good luck in future endeavors.


----------



## BorisK

No shame in not being selected.   You should be proud you even tried.   

Most importantly (in my mind anyway) there are many very important ways in which our amazing society needs support that do not require membership to the Canadian Armed Forces, so hold your head high and continue to help out the country and civilization so the CF has something worth defending.  

Best of luck.


----------



## The Bread Guy

BorisK said:
			
		

> No shame in not being selected.


That's right.

If you really do want to serve, there are plenty of other ways.

Good luck in the future.


----------



## Flatliner

I thought you had already sworn in and started basic? Sorry to hear the news though aike others have said, there are still ways to serve so be proud that you made it as far as you did and best of luck with what you decide to pursue next.


----------



## TT2015

Hi,

I have questions regarding my current application in the military, and was wondering if anyone has gone through a similar thing, and would be able to help me answer my question.

I first sent in my application to be a Traffic Technician in the Air force in September of 2014 in Quebec, and I have gone through all steps of the recruiting process. Everything went well except during my medical I indicated that I was was Hospitalized for 2 weeks during the summer of 2014 because I had contracted viral pancreatic from a visit to the Philippines. So the person doing my medical told me they needed a note from my doctor saying the virus was cured, and it wouldn't effect me in any way. I was informed it was a rather quick process once he received my documents from the doctor, he would just have to mail it out to Ottawa and a military doctor there would approve it. I was told it shouldn't take more then a week or two once Ottawa has the documents. I called my recruiter in mid November and he confirmed that Ottawa had received the papers. So I assumed it would take a week or two then i would be put on the merit list ( they told me everything else including reference and security checks where done, they just needed confirmation from Military doctor in Ottawa to merit list me). So I just called this Friday ( January 9th 2015) to check the statues of my file, assuming I was on the merit list but they told me Ottawa never checked my file yet, and I still wasn't merit listed. So I am wondering how long could it take for Ottawa to review my file? Has anyone gone through a similar situation with additional medical papers?


----------



## The_Falcon

Yes many people have been given either overly optimistic response times or experienced delays.  This is not unusual, and you are not that special.

In fact there are many many individual threads and topics of regarding the various wait times and delays people encounter.  I suggest you start reading them. 

Locked.


----------



## Fpseelground

I've applied for the army reserve as an infantry in nb and passed everything including the cfat except the medical and been placed on medical hold due to a bend in my spine. I sent the required documents to Ottawa the same day I was examined by a medical officer. That was in december 2014 and im waiting for the doctor in Ottawa to say I'm ok and this is January 19th 2015, I need the doctor to say I'm ok before I can be enrolled. I'm wondering the wait time on this cause the enrolment ceremony is January 22nd only a few days away.


----------



## DAA

Fpseelground said:
			
		

> I've applied for the army reserve as an infantry in nb and passed everything including the cfat except the medical and been placed on medical hold due to a bend in my spine. I sent the required documents to Ottawa the same day I was examined by a medical officer. That was in december 2014 and im waiting for the doctor in Ottawa to say I'm ok and this is January 19th 2015, I need the doctor to say I'm ok before I can be enrolled. I'm wondering the wait time on this cause the enrolment ceremony is January 22nd only a few days away.



What does the Army Reserve Unit that you are trying to join have to say?  Did you ask them yet?

Just a guess, but given what limited info you have provided and doing the math (Med Dec 14, extra info needed, maybe sent Dec 14, Xmas Holidays, Recruitng System Software change, extra info probably not sent til Jan 15, 2 weeks for review, 1 week to be mailed back, etc, fudge factor, etc).........I'd say the answer will be back in early Feb.


----------



## Fpseelground

I'm just concerned because I've read a few threads saying how it took them months and I'm really looking forward to this experience. My doctor filled out the documents by saying he doesn't see why I wouldnt be fit to complete my training so I'm hoping the doctor in ottawa feels the same way. But yeah, obviously Christmas break was a big obstacle for the wait time but I'm still confused about all these terms like 'merit list'. I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the whole situation. And as far as the recruitment office said, they only said to wait and they have no idea what so ever how long I'll have to wait.


----------



## DAA

Fpseelground said:
			
		

> I'm just concerned because I've read a few threads saying how it took them months and I'm really looking forward to this experience. My doctor filled out the documents by saying he doesn't see why I wouldnt be fit to complete my training so I'm hoping the doctor in ottawa feels the same way. But yeah, obviously Christmas break was a big obstacle for the wait time but I'm still confused about all these terms like 'merit list'. I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the whole situation. And as far as the recruitment office said, they only said to wait and they have no idea what so ever how long I'll have to wait.



Your best bet........deal directly with the Reserve Unit that wants to hire you.  They are the ones who are driving your entire process at this point.

Hopefully it all works out for you and that paperwork gets through the system quickly.

Good luck....


----------



## durhamcadet1

Quote:

"The rules aren't arbitrary - they're there based on likely reactions, both physical and mental, that are likely to occur under demanding conditions in potentially remote areas with limited access to skilled medical care, all based on what we know about the natural progress of these disease processes and how they're treated. 
 MM"
_______________________________________________________________________________________________


Could you advise as to the correct process to follow based on the following situation given the context of the response from MM above?
The Recruitment Medical Evaluator has ruled that the principals of universality of service have not been met because of following with a psychologist for a year in 2013 and a perceived risk of recurrence of symptoms, especially if subject to the stresses of a military environment.

This is in contrast to the form filled out by the psychologist that did not feel a risk of recurrent symptoms was likely due to the isolated difficult event that took place in 2012 (betrayal of a best friend). No mental diagnosis. No ongoing medication was Rx. There have been no residual symptoms due to the appropriate counseling that followed in 2013. It is my personal belief that through perseverance of difficult situations a person can become mentally stronger and more capable to face future challenges.

To support the appeal, I plan to get a current psych evaluation done and submit either an appeal based on this new information or a secondary review because of contrasting differences in the Recruiting medical office report from the psychologist report. I did not think that seeing a psychologist to help with a personal issue would have such a ripple effect.

Could you tell me a bit of the differences in the appeal routes and any other reports or patient information that may be helpful to the Recruitment Medical Office? Would disclosing what happened, beyond the content of originally requested psychologist follow up letter help to give context ?


----------



## Kaya1981

I don't know if anyone on here can answer my question with certitude, but here goes. When you're in the process of joining the military, and you've done the medical and they tell you they need to send your file to Ottawa for review because of a few medical issues, does the military doctor or doctors who review your file only consider the medical part of your file to make their final decision on wether you'll be declared medically fit or not ? Or do they also consider other things that are part of your file, like how you scored on the cfat or whether you were able to easily pass the force test ??

Thank you in advance.


----------



## kelsia

Lol nooo....medical means medical....everything is evaluated separately. Why the heck on earth would they look at your CFAT scores when they assign you a category, right?

I had my medical done July 6th, 2015. As I wear glasses and as they detected hearing deficit from my listening exam, they gave me two papers (1 for the eyes and the other for the hearing)......and the next day, I got both of them done and had them faxed back to my CFRC.

......One week later (July 13th, 2015) ......I asked them and they said they already assigned me a medical category......so everything could go really quick!


----------



## Kaya1981

I guess what I'm trying to ask with my questions is when they review your medical file in Ottawa, do they also consider in their final decision how well you've done so far in the recruiting process (meaning could they be more lenient if they see that you're a very good candidate versus if you're an average one), or if they only solely look at the medical aspect. I guess probably only the people who have worked there could answer my question, or the people who have been told about this from the recruiting authorities....


----------



## PuckChaser

You could be a super star candidate, but if your vision is V5, then your vision is V5. They don't make exceptions to the rules.


----------



## medicineman

Kaya1981 said:
			
		

> I guess what I'm trying to ask with my questions is when they review your medical file in Ottawa, do they also consider in their final decision how well you've done so far in the recruiting process (meaning could they be more lenient if they see that you're a very good candidate versus if you're an average one), or if they only solely look at the medical aspect. I guess probably only the people who have worked there could answer my question, or the people who have been told about this from the recruiting authorities....



This was answered very succinctly here - 





			
				kelsia said:
			
		

> Lol nooo....medical means medical....everything is evaluated separately. Why the heck on earth would they look at your CFAT scores when they assign you a category, right?



Your medical category has ZERO to do with your scores...though a diagnosis of low intelligence may well correlate with your aptitude scores, the medical file is what's looked at.  That exam is to determine MEDICAL FITNESS FOR ENROLLMENT - that's it, that's all.  If you don't meet the Common Enrollment Medical Standards, acing your CFAT won't do dinky doo for you.

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm not going to give you the answer you want to hear.

MM


----------



## Kaya1981

I am not looking for an answer that will please me, I was just looking for someone who would know for sure about the way they review your file. Because I had been told by someone in the military that if you are a very good candidate, they might be more lenient on certain type of medical conditions, and I was wanting to verify if there was any truth to that.


----------



## ModlrMike

Kaya1981 said:
			
		

> Because I had been told by someone in the military that if you are a very good candidate, they might be more lenient on certain type of medical conditions, and I was wanting to verify if there was any truth to that.



Then here's your veirification. Your medical file is reviewed in isolation of all other factors. 

The CF will not overlook or minimize medical conditions based on the remainder of your recruiting file. Who ever told you that they would doesn't know what they're talking about.


----------



## Leeworthy

No, the CF will NOT consider you for a trade that has specific medical requirements that you do not meet. IE, V4 vision, if the trade requires that then that is what your vision standard must be. Nothing else comes into play for your medical except your medical. No exceptions.


----------



## klac

Hello all,

Any knowledge about this matter will be greatly appreciated. 

He is the story, I applied to the military as a medical tech. I have a background in paramedicine. Did all my testing and as far as I know passed all including my background checks except my medical. I'm in shape, I excercise and currently work in patient transfer. The problem is, for a period of about 2 months I had very poor diet and had a high sodium intake. I ended up getting a kidney stone. I toughed it out for 4 hours and then caved and went to the hospital and passed it with minimal effort after some morphine, diuretics and prostate enlargers. I was up front and honest about it during my medical. I got a rejection notice citing renal colic . I knew it was a dietary issue because I have never have issues in the past with my kidneys and nothing since. This was 5 months ago. 

So my question is does anyone have any advice on what I should do besides get blood work and urinalyses done to clear me of any future risk? Any advice on what I should say?


----------



## mariomike

klac said:
			
		

> Did all my testing and as far as I know passed all including my background checks except my medical.



This may help,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25

Failed to meet Medical Standards.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.0
"As I said, all you can do is appeal.  We can't (and won't) answer medical questions here."

There are several more discussions about appealing Enrolment Medical decisions.

As always, best to contact Recruiting if you wish to appeal.

Good luck!

( This discussion may belong in Recruiting. )


----------



## klac

Thank you so much. I was very crushed by the rejection. I am however determined. I am hopeful that the decision will be made to accept my appeal.


----------



## PMedMoe

I'm not sure that anyone can "clear" you of "future risk" of renal colic.  They might be able to say no immediate risk, but that doesn't mean that a stone will never form at some time down the road.

I had a kidney stone last October and am "clear" so far, but it doesn't mean it can't happen again.

Just be prepared for bad news if it comes.

And yes, I am presently on a T-Cat, waiting on a decision from D Med Pol.


----------



## CountDC

really? a stone?  know/knew numerous members including myself that had stones, was treated, passed it and carried on with no repurcussions.  First I ever heard of it being an issue for a one time stone.  Doc told me to drink lots of water and go back to work.  Times sure have changed.


----------



## George Wallace

CountDC said:
			
		

> really? a stone?  know/knew numerous members including myself that had stones, was treated, passed it and carried on with no repurcussions.  First I ever heard of it being an issue for a one time stone.  Doc told me to drink lots of water and go back to work.  Times sure have changed.



I was expecting "Cepocol", but that will do.   ;D


----------



## PMedMoe

CountDC said:
			
		

> really? a stone?  know/knew numerous members including myself that had stones, was treated, passed it and carried on with no repurcussions.  First I ever heard of it being an issue for a one time stone.  Doc told me to drink lots of water and go back to work.  Times sure have changed.



Yes, they have.   :nod:


----------



## medicineman

CountDC said:
			
		

> really? a stone?  know/knew numerous members including myself that had stones, was treated, passed it and carried on with no repurcussions.  First I ever heard of it being an issue for a one time stone.  Doc told me to drink lots of water and go back to work.  Times sure have changed.



Changes with the wind - last time I was in Recruiting, you'd have to make it through a 5 year window stone free prior to enrollment if you'd had an episode of renal colic.  When I was still in, same thing, depending on stone type - 3-5 year window and if you got another, PCat.  If you have a metabolic disorder that predisposes you to frequent stones, don't count on sticking around - out in the real world I see people with lots of gravel in their kidneys, resulting in lots of time off due to pain/vomiting and such.  You can't be put in situations that will potentially dehydrate you (pretty much anything most of us do in the CAF), hence the reason.  That, and if you're in the middle of Ungabungaland with no surgical facilities and you end up with an obstructive stone, well you're run of the mill QL5 Med Tech isn't going to be able to shove something up your peepeehole and try to knock it loose...I can't even do that (though there are a few people I wouldn't mind trying it on).  That's why it's a frequently revisited issue.

MM


----------



## PMedMoe

medicineman said:
			
		

> You can't be put in situations that will potentially dehydrate you (pretty much anything most of us do in the CAF), hence the reason.  That, and if you're in the middle of Ungabungaland with no surgical facilities and you end up with an obstructive stone, well you're run of the mill QL5 Med Tech isn't going to be able to shove something up your peepeehole and try to knock it loose...I can't even do that (though there are a few people I wouldn't mind trying it on).  That's why it's a frequently revisited issue.
> 
> MM



This.   :nod:


----------



## TJC

I received my medical rejection letter the other day explaining to me that my prescription lenses were too strong and I did not meet the medical standards because of it.  I emailed the recruiting office explaining to them that I would like to pursue laser eye surgery, but today they sent me an email telling me that my application had been closed because of the medical.

Is that it?  Do I have to start my application all over again?  Couldn't they have put my application on hold while I go get laser eye surgery? Is there no way my application can be reopened?


----------



## BinRat55

Just out of curiosity (I cannot provide you with any concrete answers, but I would like a few more details...) which trades did you apply for? And do you know what your actual prescription for corrective lenses are? Are there any other factors not in your favour (i.e. myopic astigmatism, cataracts...)

FYI - LASIK or refractive corrective surgery isn't an answer in any case...


----------



## TJC

I applied for ACISS, my prescription was over -7.00.  Why wouldn't laser eye surgery be a solution?


----------



## DAA

TJC said:
			
		

> I received my medical rejection letter the other day explaining to me that my prescription lenses were too strong and I did not meet the medical standards because of it.  I emailed the recruiting office explaining to them that I would like to pursue laser eye surgery, but today they sent me an email telling me that my application had been closed because of the medical.
> 
> Is that it?  Do I have to start my application all over again?  Couldn't they have put my application on hold while I go get laser eye surgery? Is there no way my application can be reopened?



Don't get bent out of shape over your file being CLOSED.  It's not the end of the world.   If you wish to pursue laser eye surgery, with the hopes of improving your eyesight to a level that will allow you to meet CEMS (Enrolment Med Standards), then that is your choice.   You need only advise the medical section of your CFRC that you will be doing this and be sure to ask two question, "What are the laser eye surgery procedures acceptable for applicants who wish to enrol in the CF?"  and "After the eye surgery is done, how long must I wait before I can re-open my application?"  It's as simple as that!   

Chances are, the waiting time will be as short as 3 months but could be as long as 6 months.  After that time has elapsed, you only need to contact your CFRC and say "I would like to re-open my previous application."  As long as it has not been closed for more than 12 months, there is no need to re-apply online!


----------



## TJC

Thank you DAA!    That is the advise I was seeking.   I'm still waiting for a reply back to my email, but I think i'm going to give Recruiting a call.


----------



## Lumber

TJC said:
			
		

> Thank you DAA!    That is the advise I was seeking.   I'm still waiting for a reply back to my email, but I think i'm going to give Recruiting a call.



FYI:

From: CF H Svcs Gp Instruction 4020-01 - Laser Eye Surgery

Preferred Procedures
 9.Photo Refractive Keratectomy (PRK) and Laser Epithelial Keratomileusis (LASEK) are the two laser procedures currently recommended by the CF. Laser-Assisted in-Situ Keratomileusis (LASIK) even though not encouraged, is acceptable.

Restricted Procedures
 10.Due to the lack of predictability or lack of structural maintenance of the eye, RK (Radial Keratotomy) INTACS (Stromal Rings), Phakic Implants, Phakic IOL and Orthokeratology are not permitted. These procedures are considered incompatible with the safe performance of military duties.


----------



## DAA

Lumber said:
			
		

> FYI:
> 
> From: CF H Svcs Gp Instruction 4020-01 - Laser Eye Surgery
> 
> Preferred Procedures
> 9.Photo Refractive Keratectomy (PRK) and Laser Epithelial Keratomileusis (LASEK) are the two laser procedures currently recommended by the CF. Laser-Assisted in-Situ Keratomileusis (LASIK) even though not encouraged, is acceptable.
> 
> Restricted Procedures
> 10.Due to the lack of predictability or lack of structural maintenance of the eye, RK (Radial Keratotomy) INTACS (Stromal Rings), Phakic Implants, Phakic IOL and Orthokeratology are not permitted. These procedures are considered incompatible with the safe performance of military duties.



I was rather hesitant on posting this info but only because of the date on that order.     :-\


----------



## BinRat55

Adding to this:

Enrolment Candidates
 11.Candidates for enrolment who have received laser eye surgery must report so during the enrolment medical process. A final report from the Ophthalmic Surgeon or consultant optometrist must be made available as evidence of the candidates fitness and that no further follow-up is required. Restrictions for the procedures detailed above also apply to candidates for enrolment. Candidates treated for Ortho-K will be disqualified until the practice has been stopped for a period of six months. A letter from the caregiver is also required to confirm this period.


----------



## Sir Robert Peel

I was just wondering what the average wait time is for a reply from Ottawa regarding medical clearance.


----------



## DAA

Sir Robert Peel said:
			
		

> I was just wondering what the average wait time is for a reply from Ottawa regarding medical clearance.



Usually, anywhere from 4-8 weeks.


----------



## Sir Robert Peel

Thank you


----------



## TJC

Hello, just a little update - so I had LASIK Advanced Wavefront done about a week ago(one of the accepted procedures according to the med tech I emailed).  So far my vision is just as good, if not better, than when I had glasses on.  Anyways I contacted the med tech from the Toronto Recruiting office and informed him of my surgery.  He said I would have to wait 5 months before I can ask for the paperwork that is required to re-open my application.  One thing that concerns me is that 5 months from now would be a year since I did my Physical Fitness Test.  Would there be a slight chance that I might have to do the PT again?  Thanks again for all your advice.


----------



## DAA

TJC said:
			
		

> Hello, just a little update - so I had LASIK Advanced Wavefront done about a week ago(one of the accepted procedures according to the med tech I emailed).  So far my vision is just as good, if not better, than when I had glasses on.  Anyways I contacted the med tech from the Toronto Recruiting office and informed him of my surgery.  He said I would have to wait 5 months before I can ask for the paperwork that is required to re-open my application.  One thing that concerns me is that 5 months from now would be a year since I did my Physical Fitness Test.  Would there be a slight chance that I might have to do the PT again?  Thanks again for all your advice.



Yes, you will most likely have to do the FORCE Test over again as those results are only valid for 12 months.


----------



## Banksmj01

DAA said:
			
		

> Usually, anywhere from 4-8 weeks.



Is once you submit the info or the 4-8 weeks starts once it gets there? I'm wondering as well because I submitted my files on September 10th 2015 and they went through to Fredericton then to Ottawa and then to Borden. Last information I got was that my file is being reviewed by the RMO in Borden Ontario and left in transit for Borden on November 9th 2015.


----------



## DAA

Banksmj01 said:
			
		

> Is once you submit the info or the 4-8 weeks starts once it gets there? I'm wondering as well because I submitted my files on September 10th 2015 and they went through to Fredericton then to Ottawa and then to Borden. Last information I got was that my file is being reviewed by the RMO in Borden Ontario and left in transit for Borden on November 9th 2015.



4-8 weeks for someone in "perfect" health.  If you have been asked for additional information during your medical, the process can take from 4-8 months.


----------



## RocketRichard

DAA said:
			
		

> 4-8 weeks for someone in "perfect" health.  If you have been asked for additional information during your medical, the process can take from 4-8 months.



Thanks for this information. Hopefully these timings change soon.  The long wait times have caused and continue to cause the C.F. to lose good candidates.


----------



## romeosierra

enquiring about the third step in the medical - medical file review. 


-is it a review of the medical questionnaire  + evaluation of the medical examination given by the physician? or

-is it a review of your private medical records (ie: family DR records, hospitalization records, Health Canada records, Prescriptions, Imaging, etc.)? 

-should i start a medical file release form or will I be required to sign a release at the examination?
                 ie:  http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/health/forms/2942fil.pdf  (should i have applied for this already?)


I don't want anymore unnecessary delays, Once i finished my aptitude testing and filling out the security forms I was delayed several times. It could have all been avoided or reduced if I knew what was needed instead of finding out 1 after the other.

-1st delay was 6 week wait for ICES (international creditational evaluation services) to convert my US degree.

-then after they recieved My ICES evaluation they needed an FBI background check which took 8 weeks. ( this could have been done this at the same time as the ICES)

-my pre-security interview is in a few days and then my medical. I am anxious to get going and want to be prepared and ready instead of finding out that there's something I could have had prepared but didn't and will now take more time. 


Thanks ahead for any replies, and yes i searched it out but there were many vague, or overly specific questions previously asked.


----------



## DAA

romeosierra said:
			
		

> enquiring about the third step in the medical - medical file review.
> -is it a review of the medical questionnaire  + evaluation of the medical examination given by the physician? or
> -is it a review of your private medical records (ie: family DR records, hospitalization records, Health Canada records, Prescriptions, Imaging, etc.)?
> -should i start a medical file release form or will I be required to sign a release at the examination?
> ie:  http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/health/forms/2942fil.pdf  (should i have applied for this already?)
> 
> I don't want anymore unnecessary delays, Once i finished my aptitude testing and filling out the security forms I was delayed several times. It could have all been avoided or reduced if I knew what was needed instead of finding out 1 after the other.
> -1st delay was 6 week wait for ICES (international creditational evaluation services) to convert my US degree.
> -then after they recieved My ICES evaluation they needed an FBI background check which took 8 weeks. ( this could have been done this at the same time as the ICES)
> -my pre-security interview is in a few days and then my medical. I am anxious to get going and want to be prepared and ready instead of finding out that there's something I could have had prepared but didn't and will now take more time.
> Thanks ahead for any replies, and yes i searched it out but there were many vague, or overly specific questions previously asked.



The medical file review is as you mentioned in your first comment, which was the medical conducted by your local CFRC and is "a review of the medical questionnaire  + evaluation of the medical examination given by the physician".   There is no requirement for you to provide any type of "medical release of information" forms.

The delays which you have experienced so far, are a normal part of the processing.  You must first be found "eligible" to apply for the occupations which you have chosen and to do this, they need your academic information.  All academic qualifications obtained outside Canada will normally require an Education Credential Assessment.  They aren't going to ask you for the FBI Check, until you have been found eligible.

Usually, they won't schedule any further processing until the Pre-Sec has been completed.    Good luck!


----------



## George Wallace

You can also read some of the "Stickied Topics" and this one:

TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________


----------



## romeosierra

thanks for the timely responses, I just wanted to make sure I was fully prepared and have all my ducks in a row. I'm quite excited to get started.


----------



## ghkl

I attempted to enroll a while ago and after doing the fitness test, interview and all that I was rejected due to a mild shrimp allergy. I thought this was strange as the allergy is mild and non-fatal so I appealed it, seeing a civilian doctor who wrote me a letter stating that it shouldn't interfere with service. This was also rejected. I know some people who were accepted in the forces with more severe, and more likely to encounter, allergies. This seems strange to reject me on this basis along, and my appeal has failed. DO I have any other options?


----------



## mariomike

ghkl said:
			
		

> DO I have any other options?



This may help,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25
2 pages.

For future reference, perhaps these discussions will be merged.

See also,

appealing medical rejection for renal colic  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

etc...


----------



## ghkl

But I have appealed it already and it was rejected again. I'm just finding it strange for me, with a mild allergy with almost zero exposure rate, to be rejected when others with more severe medical issues and allergies have been accepted.


----------



## mariomike

ghkl said:
			
		

> I was rejected due to a mild shrimp allergy. I thought this was strange as the allergy is mild and non-fatal so I appealed it, seeing a civilian doctor who wrote me a letter stating that it shouldn't interfere with service. This was also rejected. I know some people who were accepted in the forces with more severe, and more likely to encounter, allergies.






			
				ghkl said:
			
		

> I'm just finding it strange for me, with a mild allergy with almost zero exposure rate, to be rejected when others with more severe medical issues and allergies have been accepted.



You may find this discussion of interest,

Recruiting > Allergies in the CF  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12898.250
11 pages.

_As always_,  your most trusted source of information is Recruiting.


----------



## hoping.for.the.best

Hello, so i was just wondering how long the medical takes approx. if i habe perfect health... i had had my medical last monday. Another question is i have had my interveiw back on the 21st and i was just wonder how long in approx takes more the background check to be done. thank you so much.

i am hoping to make the basic training date in march.


----------



## Gunshark

Before this topic (likely) gets locked, a few points for you:

- Search the forum, all of these questions are answered, and there are plenty of application process examples.
- Background check will probably take at least a couple of weeks, or more. But there is no one right answer to this. It depends.
- You are unlikely to make BMQ in March, though anything is possible in the recruiting world. It has nothing to do with having perfect health. Applications usually take at least several months, dependent on many factors. But it's all good, stick it out and you'll get it in due time.
- Check your grammar, make an effort to write professionally.
- Welcome to the forum. Good luck.


----------



## mariomike

hoping.for.the.best said:
			
		

> Hello, so i was just wondering how long the medical takes approx. if i habe perfect health... i had had my medical last monday. Another question is i have had my interveiw back on the 21st and i was just wonder how long in approx takes more the background check to be done.



TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/81054.0


----------



## DAA

hoping.for.the.best said:
			
		

> Hello, so i was just wondering how long the medical takes approx. if i habe perfect health... i had had my medical last monday. Another question is i have had my interveiw back on the 21st and i was just wonder how long in approx takes more the background check to be done. thank you so much.
> 
> i am hoping to make the basic training date in march.



Once the medical is completed and at the current time, the results will take 6-8 weeks (minimum) before they are returned to your CFRC.  Once they have been returned and "if" your medical was approved, then the background checks start, which will take another 4-6 weeks to complete.

If your processing is successful, you'd be lucky to get a job offer in early May.


----------



## Ebiebing

Please forgive this being a slightly stupid question, but I seem to keep finding conflicting answers, and my local recruiter will not give updates on applications. Are you saying that background checks are not completed until medicals have been cleared in Ottawa? I was under the impression my background check was complete, but my medical was delayed due to the eye exam for AF and the extra medical for older recruits (which were a long wait for appointments). I was under the impression my background check had been completed months ago, but I've just received word that my references are being called. By what you've said, that means my medical has just been approved and they're just getting started on my background check? Do applications always proceed in this order? Thanks very much, in advance. It would be nice to have a definitive answer on this!


----------



## DAA

Ebiebing said:
			
		

> Please forgive this being a slightly stupid question, but I seem to keep finding conflicting answers, and my local recruiter will not give updates on applications. Are you saying that background checks are not completed until medicals have been cleared in Ottawa? I was under the impression my background check was complete, but my medical was delayed due to the eye exam for AF and the extra medical for older recruits (which were a long wait for appointments). I was under the impression my background check had been completed months ago, but I've just received word that my references are being called. By what you've said, that means my medical has just been approved and they're just getting started on my background check? Do applications always proceed in this order? Thanks very much, in advance. It would be nice to have a definitive answer on this!



The processing of background checks can and do vary based on your application and other factors.  The general rule of thumb, is that these checks aren't "normally" started until after the medical has been approved and returned.  Some exceptions to this rule could be associated with an Aircrew Application (ie; Pilot, Air Combat Systems or Aerospace Control), an application where the initial medical screening is recommended for approval prior to forwarding to Ottawa and or in-demand occupations.    It's hard to say without knowing your "exact" circumstances.


----------



## Ebiebing

Thanks very much for your response! You actually gave me more of an answer than you might think-- now I know it isn't always cut and dried the same process. I see by my caller ID that Garda has called me as well, so I guess I can assume that my background check is going on now. I wish there hadn't been a two month wait to get my extra medical and eye exam done now, but at least I know the end/ an answer is in sight after waiting since September. I'll keep all my digits crossed and hope for a good outcome. Thanks again. 
Fwiw to the OP, my medical took approx 3-4 weeks from drop off to return, assuming they waited for it to return and then started my background check immediately.


----------



## DAA

Ebiebing said:
			
		

> Thanks very much for your response! You actually gave me more of an answer than you might think-- now I know it isn't always cut and dried the same process. I see by my caller ID that Garda has called me as well, so I guess I can assume that my background check is going on now. I wish there hadn't been a two month wait to get my extra medical and eye exam done now, but at least I know the end/ an answer is in sight after waiting since September. I'll keep all my digits crossed and hope for a good outcome. Thanks again.
> Fwiw to the OP, my medical took approx 3-4 weeks from drop off to return, assuming they waited for it to return and then started my background check immediately.



If Garda is trying to reach you, you should try and call them back as soon as you can!!!   Sometimes, Garda will reach out to the applicant, in cases where they are having trouble reaching one of the references that you have provided.   Failure to do so, will result in a "non-conclusive" background check, in which case your CFRC will have to do this portion, which can take longer than normal.   Good luck!


----------



## Ebiebing

DAA said:
			
		

> If Garda is trying to reach you, you should try and call them back as soon as you can!!!   Sometimes, Garda will reach out to the applicant, in cases where they are having trouble reaching one of the references that you have provided.   Failure to do so, will result in a "non-conclusive" background check, in which case your CFRC will have to do this portion, which can take longer than normal.   Good luck!


Thanks! They didn't leave a voicemail, but I did call back the main number and I left a message... That was Monday morning and I haven't heard anything back, so I'm not sure if maybe it was a mistake when they called me...? Maybe I'll call again tomorrow. I've only heard from one reference they've contacted so far. Don't want any more delays!


----------



## DAA

Ebiebing said:
			
		

> Thanks! They didn't leave a voicemail, but I did call back the main number and I left a message... That was Monday morning and I haven't heard anything back, so I'm not sure if maybe it was a mistake when they called me...? Maybe I'll call again tomorrow. I've only heard from one reference they've contacted so far. Don't want any more delays!



Keep calling Garda.  It's to your advantage to do so.


----------



## Ebiebing

DAA said:
			
		

> Keep calling Garda.  It's to your advantage to do so.


Thanks very much   I'll do that. I'm also going to stop into my local CRC to see if I can't get any feeling in person on where things are right now. I appreciate your advice very much-- I just want in so badly.


----------



## Trik

I had my medical and interview at the start of December 2015 and I am still waiting for it to be approved. I applied for crewman and infantry, I have no medical issues and my family has no history of medical issues. I was just wondering why it could be taking so long? I saw a few posts in the application processing samples thread where folks had their medical less than a month ago and have already been approved. Is there anything to do or do I just keep playing the waiting game?

Also my background check went out around the same time and my references have yet to be contacted. I have never left the country so I'm not sure why that is taking so long either.


----------



## mariomike

Trik said:
			
		

> I had my medical and interview at the start of December 2015 and I am still waiting for it to be approved. I applied for crewman and infantry, I have no medical issues and my family has no history of medical issues. I was just wondering why it could be taking so long? I saw a few posts in the application processing samples thread where folks had their medical less than a month ago and have already been approved. Is there anything to do or do I just keep playing the waiting game?



You may find this discussion of interest,

TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/81054.0



			
				Trik said:
			
		

> Also my background check went out around the same time and my references have yet to be contacted. I have never left the country so I'm not sure why that is taking so long either.



From just a few days ago,

question on background check and medical.....  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121950.0
"i was just wondering how long the medical takes approx. if i habe perfect health... i had had my medical last monday. Another question is i have had my interveiw back on the 21st and i was just wonder how long in approx takes more the background check to be done."


----------



## td22

Hi all,

I'm a recent applicant to the CF. I submitted my paperwork in August 2015, Since then I have completed the CFAT, FORCE exam, interview, and medical. If I remember correctly, my medical information was sent to Ottawa on December 23rd ish and I was informed that a decision would be made on my file come January. 

So far, I've had no response. I have emailed to inquire once, and CFRC Vancouver notified me that my file is stuck at the "Awaiting medical approval" stage, along with 25 others from Vancouver alone. 

Would anyone here have an idea about how long that would take? I would like a rough estimate so I can plan out next semester's courses/work schedule accordingly.


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca.

There are lots of variables, so prediction is rather iffy.

See http://army.ca/forums/threads/13064/post-56130.html#msg56130 - 203 pages and counting.

Most questions have already been asked and answered here before, often many times. A little poking around on the Site prior to posting questions is a good idea and encouraged for many reasons, not the least that you will likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.


----------



## DAA

Trik said:
			
		

> I had my medical and interview at the start of December 2015 and I am still waiting for it to be approved. I applied for crewman and infantry, I have no medical issues and my family has no history of medical issues. I was just wondering why it could be taking so long? I saw a few posts in the application processing samples thread where folks had their medical less than a month ago and have already been approved. Is there anything to do or do I just keep playing the waiting game?
> 
> Also my background check went out around the same time and my references have yet to be contacted. I have never left the country so I'm not sure why that is taking so long either.



I believe there is a backlog of medical files pending review, so expect to wait 6-8 weeks if not longer.  Also, the background checks don't "normally" start, until after the medical has been reviewed and the file returned to your CFRC.


----------



## DAA

td22 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a recent applicant to the CF. I submitted my paperwork in August 2015, Since then I have completed the CFAT, FORCE exam, interview, and medical. If I remember correctly, my medical information was sent to Ottawa on December 23rd ish and I was informed that a decision would be made on my file come January.
> 
> So far, I've had no response. I have emailed to inquire once, and CFRC Vancouver notified me that my file is stuck at the "Awaiting medical approval" stage, along with 25 others from Vancouver alone.
> 
> Would anyone here have an idea about how long that would take? I would like a rough estimate so I can plan out next semester's courses/work schedule accordingly.



It's likely that there may be a backlog of medical files pending review at this time.  Expect to wait 6-8 weeks or more before the review is completed and your file returned to your Recruiting Detachment.  Not much happens in December, so don't count that month.


----------



## Thomythom3

Hey guys,

I have applied to the army reserves in my local area but my file has been put on medical hold. I have been told that it is currently under review and could take quite some time ( possibly 160 days). I have no current health issues and I have been told it isn't my hearing or vision. My application went in on February 10Th. Has anyone else had this issue or have any advice? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mariomike

Thomythom3 said:
			
		

> my file has been put on medical hold. I have been told that it is currently under review and could take quite some time ( possibly 160 days).



You may find these discussions of interest,

Medical hold  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/117641.0

Medical Test on Hold  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13762.5;wap2

They put my med test results on hold?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/51043.0

Medical Review Board  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13453.0
2 pages.

Medical file review
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119915.0

Don't want anymore delays... medical file review question
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121605.0

Medical wait time  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/117529.0

Medical Approval 
"I had my medical and interview at the start of December 2015 and I am still waiting for it to be approved."

Finished Medical, How Long Before I'm Contacted?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122176.0

Medical Approval and Background Check Waiting Times  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/121950.0

Wait times for enrollment medical  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/60230.0
"Is anyone else waiting for his or her medical to come back from Ottawa?"

Medical Waiting Period Info 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/102962.0

Many, _many_  more...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Jules Gittens

I have recently completed my medical and my form was sent to Ottawa. The med tech told me that he told the doctors that because I had a doctors note, the doc may not ask for extra paperwork. My question is what are you guys experiences with medical file reviews?


----------



## Loachman

Merged, and the pointless poll removed.

I'll look at the other links later and possibly merge them.


----------



## CombatDoc

Loachman said:
			
		

> Merged, and the pointless poll removed.
> 
> I'll look at the other links later and possibly merge them.


My experiences with medical file reviews are entirely positive, since I was usually the one doing the review.  ;D

In your case, I suggest that you check the links that Mariomike posted or use the search function. Your question has been answered ad nauseum.


----------



## timed

Are medical letters from Ottawa sent to you via postal mail? Why not email, considering it's instantaneous and more secure (Canada post can lose your mail, someone can take it from your mail box, etc.)?


----------



## Gunshark

timed said:
			
		

> Are medical letters from Ottawa sent to you via postal mail? Why not email, considering it's instantaneous and more secure (Canada post can lose your mail, someone can take it from your mail box, etc.)?



You aren't sent any medical letters from Ottawa directly. Your medical results are sent from your recruiting centre to Ottawa for review. The approval (hopefully) is then sent from Ottawa back to your recruiting centre, and your recruiting centre lets you know what the next step is.


----------



## timed

Gunshark said:
			
		

> You aren't sent any medical letters from Ottawa directly. Your medical results are sent from your recruiting centre to Ottawa for review. The approval (hopefully) is then sent from Ottawa back to your recruiting centre, and your recruiting centre lets you know what the next step is.



Thank you for the response. Is there not a letter in the process though? For example in this thread: http://army.ca/forums/threads/114561/post-1300275.html, the poster mentions having to wait for a letter. It's really no big deal, I'd just prefer email. I'm also living away from home for school, so I'm not sure if I would want it sent to my parents' house (in which case they would probably read it first), or my dorm (which I don't really trust since the mailbox is open, and there's like 15 people that share this house) which I'm leaving in like 3 months anyway.


----------



## Gunshark

If you note in the thread you referenced, the individual was found medically unfit, and was advised the reasoning would be mailed to him. I was not aware this is done, but looks like it's only in the "unfit" case anyway.

Last I know of (I was in application process just last year), you are not mailed any letters if you are found fit.

In any case, in your situation I would provide your parents' address. They shouldn't be opening your mail but you shouldn't be keeping secrets like this from them either.

Depending on your trade selection, at the end of your medical you may be instructed to get additional tests done outside of the recruiting centre (for example, eye test). You will be given the required form(s) to take to the appropriate doctor(s). When you get those tests done, you then can either deliver those filled out forms yourself to the CFRC medical section or mail them there.


----------



## mariomike

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

re: appeals 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632

Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.

A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.   

See also: Enrollment Medical,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
2 pages.

Medical appeal  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

appealing medical rejection 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Appeals
http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0

Failed to meet Medical Standards
OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
3 pages.

Ottawa Medical
OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0

"Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
2 pages.

etc...


----------



## sk8man

Hey guys.
So I finally received my letter and we all know only phone calls are good news. So I was rejected for a medical problem. I had my medical forms filled out and they all said the same thing "minimal to zero chance of reoccurrence" but the letter stated I have high risk of reoccurrence. 
To save you guys the gritty details, all I'd like to know is if anyone knows the best action to take for a second opinion. I've fought to hard to get to where I am now to not fight and I need to appeal. If it comes back as still a no then I'll take it as it is but I must try. Any help would be muchly appreciated.
Thank you


----------



## mariomike

sk8man said:
			
		

> I need to appeal.



Medical rejection seems strange  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121893.0

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25
2 pages.

appealing medical rejection for renal colic  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

re: appeals 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632

Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.

A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.   

See also: Enrollment Medical,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
2 pages.

Medical appeal  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

appealing medical rejection 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Appeals
http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0

Failed to meet Medical Standards
OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
3 pages.

Ottawa Medical
OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0

"Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
2 pages.

etc...

See also,

AA got me a NO NO ( Locked ) 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/100119/post-1031707.html#msg1031707
Original Poster: sk8man 
Anyway, can I appeal this, maybe by going to a second Doctor. 

I can't take no for an answer.


----------



## Kaya1981

Hello,
I would like to know if there is a way to contact the people at RMO who review the medical files ? I would like to get some precisions about the reason why I was found medically unfit. In the letter I received, they stayed pretty vague about their reasoning. And before anyone asks, my local recruiting center hasn't been very helpful at all, so this is why I am asking here.

Thanks in advance !


----------



## mariomike

Kaya1981 said:
			
		

> I would like to know if there is a way to contact the people at RMO who review the medical files ?



For continuity of the Original Poster's Enrollment Medical questions, and for reference, perhaps "Contacting RMO ?" 

will be merged with Kaya1981's other three posts ( Reply #108, #110 and #113 ) in,

Medical Review Board/File Review ( merged )
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/13453/post-1378166.html#msg1378166
7 pages.

See also,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
2 pages.

etc...


----------



## bscriber

Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to get an Air Factor?  I received a call from my CFRC telling me that I passed my medical, except the med tech didn't give me the paperwork to complete my Air Factor back in March when I did the medical.  I have to go next week to get the paperwork and then see my doctor to get the work done.  I am applying for AEC in the RCAF.  Everything else on my file is done and this is holding me up from being merit listed.

I waited 3.5 months for my medical.  Is Air Factor about the same wait time?

Thanks!


----------



## DAA

bscriber said:
			
		

> Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to get an Air Factor?  I received a call from my CFRC telling me that I passed my medical, except the med tech didn't give me the paperwork to complete my Air Factor back in March when I did the medical.  I have to go next week to get the paperwork and then see my doctor to get the work done.  I am applying for AEC in the RCAF.  Everything else on my file is done and this is holding me up from being merit listed.
> 
> I waited 3.5 months for my medical.  Is Air Factor about the same wait time?



I'm pretty sure the AF can only be assigned/awarded by CFEME Toronto and should have been done when you did your ASC Course.  Once you return any required documentation, your medical file will need to be sent to Toronto for review and approval.  Not entirely certain on the turn around times for this but I'm thinking 4-6 weeks, if not longer, would be a reasonable expectation.


----------



## bscriber

DAA said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure the AF can only be assigned/awarded by CFEME Toronto and should have been done when you did your ASC Course.  Once you return any required documentation, your medical file will need to be sent to Toronto for review and approval.  Not entirely certain on the turn around times for this but I'm thinking 4-6 weeks, if not longer, would be a reasonable expectation.



Thanks DAA!  Yes, the Cpl. at CFRC Kingston I talked to was surprised the paperwork wasn't given to me before I did my ASC course.  I'm off to Kingston next week to pick up the paperwork, then off to see my doctor to get everything done.  I was so excited to have hit the end of the long recruitment road, but I have to navigate this last bend .  Hopefully, it will be only 4-6 weeks, but I'll expect longer.  Hope for the best, plan for the worst, right?


----------



## DAA

bscriber said:
			
		

> Thanks DAA!  Yes, the Cpl. at CFRC Kingston I talked to was surprised the paperwork wasn't given to me before I did my ASC course.  I'm off to Kingston next week to pick up the paperwork, then off to see my doctor to get everything done.  I was so excited to have hit the end of the long recruitment road, but I have to navigate this last bend .  Hopefully, it will be only 4-6 weeks, but I'll expect longer.  Hope for the best, plan for the worst, right?



Only a guess but chances are, you may have been caught during a processing change for Aircrew Occupations and your CFRC may not have been aware of this.  It seems to be sorted out now and hopefully you are on your way again.

Don't loose sleep over this, it's not a critical issue and the CAF will always be looking for Pilots, so your chances of being made an offer of employment have not been disadvantaged.  But I would recommend that you maintain contact with your local Recruiting Detachment every 30-45 days, even if to just check in on things.

Good luck!


----------



## elsalado

Are you referring to the additional blood and vision tests that you have to get for aircrew after the normal medical? I applied for pilot and ACSO and  did my medical in April then was given the forms to get filled out by my doctor and optometrist. I got them filled out after I did my aircrew selection in May and got them sent out in early June.


----------



## bscriber

Yes, I am.  I was never given the forms though, and I did my AEC testing two months ago.  I would have had this done if I had had the forms.  Oh well.  I'll pick them up next Wednesday and get it all squared away


----------



## elsalado

Ah I see. Hopefully yours goes quickly since your regular medical was already sent up. I did my ACS in early May where I passed for ACSO but not for pilot. I stupidly assumed that I would only need to send those forms in for pilot and not ACSO so I didn't bother until I found out 3 weeks later that I did indeed need to send them. So now it's been 2 months since Ottawa received all my documents but maybe I would be done already if I didn't waste those 3 weeks  :facepalm:


----------



## ArmedAndUseless

I received a letter in the mail from the RMO today; I've been rejected. I want to appeal, but I'm just lost right now. All I really ever wanted to do was join the army; if I can't have that I don't know what I'll do after high school. It's not like all my plans for the future were riding on it, but that sure was my dream career path. I just have tourretes and some anxiety, plus all my doctors recommend my approval so the denial is a pretty big shock. In preparation for the appeal, I'm contacting the doctors who examined me to ensure they can recommend me again if needed. However, one quit her practice and moved to another city so it is a bit tough right now. The CFRC isn't picking up so I'll send an email to the medical department later. I think my case is petty strong, so we'll see what happens.

That's all I have for now I guess. Sorry if it's a bit incoherent, I'm on mobile and just had to get this off my chest.

Thanks for listening. If you have any advice for next steps or writing the email, please feel free to share it; I sure could use it. If this counts as a rant, I'll delete it.

EDIT: Typos and and sentence


----------



## mariomike

ArmedAndUseless said:
			
		

> I received a letter in the mail from the RMO today; I've been rejected. I want to appeal, but I'm just lost right now.



For reference, perhaps,

Bad luck with the RMO  

will be merged with,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25
2 pages.

See also,

Medical rejection seems strange  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121893.0

appealing medical rejection for renal colic  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

re: appeals 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632

Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.

A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.   

See also: Enrollment Medical,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
2 pages.

Medical appeal  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

appealing medical rejection 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Appeals
http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0

Failed to meet Medical Standards
OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
3 pages.

Ottawa Medical
OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0

"Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
2 pages.

etc...


----------



## ArmedAndUseless

mariomike said:
			
		

> For reference, perhaps,
> 
> Bad luck with the RMO
> 
> will be merged with,
> 
> Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25
> 2 pages.
> 
> See also,
> 
> Medical rejection seems strange
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/121893.0
> 
> appealing medical rejection for renal colic
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0
> 
> Medical appeal
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0
> 
> Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,
> 
> re: appeals
> http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632
> 
> Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.
> 
> A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.
> 
> See also: Enrollment Medical,
> 
> Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  ( Locked )
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
> 2 pages.
> 
> Medical appeal  ( Locked )
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0
> 
> appealing medical rejection
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0
> 
> Appeals
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0
> 
> Failed to meet Medical Standards
> OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
> 3 pages.
> 
> Ottawa Medical
> OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0
> 
> "Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
> OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
> 2 pages.
> 
> etc...



Sorry, wasn't sure if it counted as a "personal story" or not; thanks for moving it!


----------



## KyleAM

I have been through the application process twice now, the first time I was rejected do to a criminal record, the second time I was found medically unfit. When I was rejected for my record I went and received a full pardon, during that time I also had laser eye surgery so that my vision level could improve from a low end V4. When I had the surgery I was diagnosed with keratconus and had that corrected as well. When I applied the seconded time and got to the medical portion of the process, the medical officer recognized me and asked why I was not wearing the uniform since I was found fit the first time. My question is would I have been released medically once my disorder was diagnosed after becoming a recruit or did I just get unlucky in being diagnosed prior to the application.

Thank you for the information


----------



## PandemicStrange

Only person who can actually answer that would be the Medical staff at the CFRC.


----------



## mariomike

If you wish to appeal a medical decision, you can read this,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25
2 pages.

Medical rejection seems strange  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121893.0

appealing medical rejection for renal colic  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

re: appeals 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632

Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.

A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.   

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
2 pages.

Medical appeal  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

appealing medical rejection 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical Review Board/File Review ( merged )
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/13453/post-1378166.html#msg1378166
7 pages.

Bad luck with the RMO  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25

Appeals
http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0

Failed to meet Medical Standards
OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
3 pages.

Ottawa Medical
OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0

"Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
2 pages.

etc...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## KyleAM

That's what I figured, unfortunately I won't be able to appeal the decision. Thank you mario and pandemic.


----------



## MikeYPG/CAF

Good day everyone, I have just completed my application and submitted it to the online recruitment center. Although I still have a variety of questions that I hope can be answered by current service men/women.

1- How long does it usually take, on average, for the CAF to process an application?
2- How long does it usually take, on average, for the CAF to accept or decline an application? 
3- What are the odds of the application being accepted or denied, and what are the main sticking points for why your application may be accepted or reject? 
4- If accepted, how extensive is the medical exam? Does it cover both physical and mental health? is there a 50/50 focus on physical and mental health or does one usually take precedent?
5- How is the aptitude test? what does it test you for? How would you describe the difficulty of it? How long does it usually take?
6- How does the paid education work? From what I understand you are accepted, given basic training and then you go to school for your desired career and then are surged into the career choice within the Armed Forces with a required 2 months service for every month of education paid for
7- After training in Quebec, are you sent back home (in my case in Aurora) and then visit a base nearby when required or do you have to live on a base? Will the CAF require relocation after basic training in Quebec to somewhere you never imagined? Example, NWT: I ask because I have a wife and child and we cannot relocate further than 50km from our current location for a few years
8- What are the odds of being deployed? I would hope the odds are high, because I want to get out into the world and actually help people on the ground, not just pontificate about it in a Military base. 
9- If one wanted to transfer from their selected military career / position into one such as Military Intelligence, how would you go about that?
10- If one wanted to consider a SOF role in the future, how would you pursue that if you have had education paid for and are brought into CAF as a professional as a result of that education? Basically asking, if your education for med school is paid for, does the army require you to strictly adhere to that role in the CAF, or would they be happy to allow you to pursue a SOF path if you change your mind about being a doctor or whatever the case may be, until you re-enter civilian life?
11- Is there any other information, hints, tips, guidance you could provide to someone who has just submitted an application to join the CAF? This may include advice about the aptitude testing preparation, physical fitness preparation, what to do if your application is reject but still greatly desire military service, whether in Canada or abroad, and anything else you may think of.

Thank you very much for you time ladies and gentlemen,
-Michael Veloso


----------



## Quirky

What trades did you apply for?


----------



## fultsy

Hey Guys! 

I have researched medicals backwards, forwards and sideways but I'm coming up short on answers.

I'm in the middle of my application process and I knew going in that my eyesight may be an issue (strong prescription, since infancy) and the Med. Officer confirmed that I was just outside the scope of being "medically fit" as my eyesight scored a 5 and I needed to be a 4 or better. He did say that I should continue to get the rest of my forms completed and sent in because even though I will be rejected as "medically unfit," I can apply for an appeal if I want to pursue laser surgery to correct my vision. This has always been my plan eventually once we had the funds saved up. 

My question is, how does that appeal process work? Do you have to request the paperwork or does the recruiting centre automatically give you the appeal paperwork with your rejection notice? Has anyone been rejected due to vision, had the surgery and successfully won their appeal? Or am I better off to just pull my application now?  

I have searched the following topics on this forum: appeals, medical appeal, medical review, medical testing, recruitment process, appeals process, medically unfit, rejected application etc. Google hasn't been much of a help either as it directs me to here, and posts that don't specifically cover what I'm looking for. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Occam

Use Google like this with the search terms you used before:

site:army.ca medical appeal

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+medical+appeal


----------



## mariomike

fultsy said:
			
		

> My question is, how does that appeal process work?



Medical Review Board/File Review ( merged )
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/13453/post-1378166.html#msg1378166
7 pages.

Failed to meet Medical Standards
OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
3 pages.

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25
2 pages.

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html
2 pages.

Medical appeal  ( Locked )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

"Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
2 pages.

Medical rejection seems strange  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121893.0

appealing medical rejection for renal colic  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

re: appeals 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632

Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.

A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.   

appealing medical rejection 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Bad luck with the RMO  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25

Appeals
http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0

Ottawa Medical
OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0

Medically Unfit - Vision  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/125409/post-1480885.html#msg1480885

etc...

As always,  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## fultsy

Thanks! 

I've been lurking in this forum since January and have been researching and looking for most of my answers through the search feature I was just really struggling with this particular question it seems.


----------



## mariomike

fultsy said:
			
		

> Thanks!



You are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## clmarr

I was also just outside the cutoff for V4. I decided to get my surgery done at the beginning of the process, 3 weeks after my CFAT. I took advantage of a promotion (pay in one year with 0% interest) which allowed me to undergo the surgery very early and will allow me to save over the next few months with no penalty. Maybe the timeline is not a concern for you, but if so, some of the major companies (Lasik MD in my case) have those promotions quite regularly.


----------



## solarblue

Is anyone else a DEO applicant for one or more of the Aircrew Trades (Pilot, AEC, ACSO) and had their Aircrew Medical file approved in recent months (i.e. Jan 2017 or later)? If so, how long ago was the date on which you returned the completed forms for Aircrew Trades? 

These are the dates of my application steps and I'm wondering if others are experiencing / have recently experienced similar Medical Review wait times:

Regular/ Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: DEO
Trade Choice 1: ACSO
Trade Choice 2: LogO
Trade Choice 3: AEC
Applied: 24 Aug 2016
CFAT: 15 Sep 2016
ASC: 22 Nov 2016
Interview: 16 Jan 2017
Medical appointment (in-person): 16 Jan 2017
Aircrew medical screening test results faxed to CFRC Medical Section: 09 Feb 2017
Background: Feb 2017

Thanks!


----------



## assplosion

Hi. I am not sure if this is the right forum for this question, but here goes anyway. I applied to the Canadian naval reserves, and passed the physical test with good results. The cognitive tests that I took indicated that I would be able to perform any of the positions within the military. After my interview, the interview conducter said that he thought that I would get in for sure (maybe this was a platitude).

  However, I received a rejection letter a while ago (about 9 months ago). The rejection letter cited mental health concerns. The concerns were as follows: ADHD, Depression, and something called "Non-Verbal Learning Disorder"(NVLD). This probably sounds pretty bad, but please allow me to explain. The depression diagnoses was not indicative of chronic depression, but was rather an acknowledgment of a past fit of depression that had spanned the length of my visits with a doctor that lasted around a year. I feel that judging my character on this isolated incident would be an unfair and inaccurate mistake. I was not suicidal. I was not bedridden. I don't think my reasons for being sad were atypical. I was lonely, scared, and in a very pathetic state in my life. I think that a section of the teenage population would have been able to relate to these feelings, but the difference is that my parents had the money to employ an psychologist, and were concerned with my dropping grades. I don't say this to brag, but just to show that if I hadn't had access to a psychologist, the temporary sadness would have passed anyway.

 During the period of my visits with the psychologist,I did take a SSRI for 3 months before stopping with little observed results(other than a temporary deadening of my emotions). My change in mood was I feel more of a result of lessons learned and a swift kick in the ass from my mother.
As for the ADHD, I quit the Concerta that I had been taking since I was six years old, about 10 months ago, and I feel that I am doing fine. Actually better than I have for a while. I am currently awaiting a sequence of appointments with a doctor at an ADHD clinic, and my hopes are that I will be able to have the ADHD diagnoses removed entirely, as the adult form of ADHD is rare, and I feel that the ADHD diagnostic criteria no longer accurately describe my behavior.
I'm not sure if there is anything I can do about the NVLD diagnoses. I will probably look into having this disorder removed if possible, but if not, all I can say is that I don't feel that the criteria of that disorder describe my behavior accurately. I wouldn't put much credence in my particular psychologists words anyway. I know that my opinion is probably meaningless to the Canadian military in opposition to an authority figure though.

 I acknowledge that an attempt to challenge the militaries decision may be futile, but would like to do so anyway. The position I applied for at the time was in the Canadian Naval reserves, and I no longer wish to serve in this position, but am now interested in the Canadian army. I would like to serve in an infantry capacity in the future(when opportunity's are available). I was in possession of a rejection letter at one point, but my Mom misplaced it, and I have searched everywhere for it, but it hasn't turned up. It would be helpful to have that letter so that I could address the problem with more information. So my questions are, how could I obtain a new copy of the letter? How can I challenge the medical decision? What are the odds that I will be able to change their minds? If I originally applied to the Naval reserves and was rejected, could I simply begin a new application to the army with updated background information? I would love to serve in the military and would do my best if given the chance. Thanks in advance for your advice.


----------



## mariomike

assplosion said:
			
		

> The rejection letter cited mental health concerns. The concerns were as follows: ADHD, Depression, and something called "Non-Verbal Learning Disorder"(NVLD).



ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22352.25
9 pages.

The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0
16 pages.

Learning disabilities are also discussed here,
"This is a difficult question because learning disabilities can encompass so much. Truth is, no one can easily answer your question, especially not without more ..."
https://army.ca/forums/threads/125902.25
6 pages.



			
				assplosion said:
			
		

> How can I challenge the medical decision?



Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.25.html

Medical Review Board/File Review ( merged )
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/13453/post-1378166.html#msg1378166
7 pages.

Medical rejection seems strange  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/121893.0

appealing medical rejection 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119953.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

re: appeals 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123090/post-1440632.html#msg1440632

Q: I have finally sent in an appeal because it takes to long to get in to see a psychiatrist.

A: To appeal any type of Medical disqualification, will require reports from your civilian health care professionals.   

Appeals
http://army.ca/forums/threads/83309.0

Failed to meet Medical Standards
OP: I'm planning on appealing their decision 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110159.50.html
3 pages.

Ottawa Medical
OP:  is there any way I can appeal this decision?  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35629.0

"Does not Meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards"
OP: Two weeks ago I received my notice that my appeal was successfully over turned.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113415.0
2 pages.

etc...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of up to date information.


----------



## TheFourSeasons

Does anybody know what the current medical wait times are, on average, as of August 2017?


----------



## FinnO25

Wait times vary based on your medical situation, in my case it took roughly 2 months for my med file to be approved.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

TheFourSeasons said:
			
		

> Does anybody know what the current medical wait times are, on average, as of August 2017?



Mine was also 2 months. Just got word last week my file passed dmed pol.


----------



## PuckChaser

TheFourSeasons said:
			
		

> Does anybody know what the current medical wait times are, on average, as of August 2017?



Considering the disclosures you made in previous posts, don't expect that your medical will be a typical review time. Each individual is different, so times for others will not necessarily correlate to what you or anyone else should expect.


----------



## 44nic4444

Anybody have any idea how long it takes for a medical that need to reviewed to be sent to Ottawa take? Cause i had to get further medical forums filled out and some stupid medical resident filled it out wrong and I got a second opinion, which they said was fine. Plus I have some other old medical problems, saying all that I have worked labour jobs my whole life and workout 5 days a week and have never had problems. I'm just worried they will look at the medical problems and be like hes unfit even though I'm in no way not. Furthermore I'm sorta in a really inconvenient timeline in this part of my life. I wanna go into the military but if i dint get accepted i want to go to school but the local medical person in the recruiting centre it might take up to a month. This means that I would be in school and it would be hard to get out of school but if i ditch school and get denied then I gotta do something for a year. So i don't have any idea what to do. 


Sorry if i ranted I'm just sorta worried/pissed/da fuq do i


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

44nic4444 said:
			
		

> Anybody have any idea how long it takes for a medical that need to reviewed to be sent to Ottawa take? Cause i had to get further medical forums filled out and some stupid medical resident filled it out wrong and I got a second opinion, which they said was fine. Plus I have some other old medical problems, saying all that I have worked labour jobs my whole life and workout 5 days a week and have never had problems. I'm just worried they will look at the medical problems and be like hes unfit even though I'm in no way not. Furthermore I'm sorta in a really inconvenient timeline in this part of my life. I wanna go into the military but if i dint get accepted i want to go to school but the local medical person in the recruiting centre it might take up to a month. This means that I would be in school and it would be hard to get out of school but if i ditch school and get denied then I gotta do something for a year. So i don't have any idea what to do.
> 
> 
> Sorry if i ranted I'm just sorta worried/pissed/da fuq do i



More like 2 months seems to be the average waiting time. Its almost been 2 and a half for my medical file.


----------



## chatie25

I apply for Canadian Forces 2015 took the CFAT 2016 then physical and medical November same year.  Medical Officer request for additional medical forms that need to fill-up by my Family doctor.  I disclose chronic pain due to 2009 car accident and very honest with it.  My Family doctor mention that I'm pain free for more than 5 yrs and they decline my application because of this and I request for second opinion and request for reassessment.  I went to see a pain doctor rheumatologist and reassessed me and they submit findings that no trace of pain or fibromyalgia, they did recommendation that I'm physical fit to apply in the army.  Submit it to the Medical Officer recruitment center and got a letter after 3 mos that they still reject my application.  I still don't understand why they keep rejecting my application even I don't have this pain anymore.  

What should I do? I don't want to give up and quit.


----------



## kratz

The CF is not allowed to deny anyone from applying.

But, there are standards that must be met. There are 40,000 applications a year, for 8,000 positions. This does not include the PRes.

The bright news, there are other ways to serve Canadians.


----------



## chatie25

Hi Kratz,

When I request for second review the Medical Officer request to go back and request for reassessment which is I did.  The first specialist assessed me was an Environment Specialist and the one who did the reassessment recently is a Rheumatologist who specialize in Chronic pain and she ruled out the first assessment from the Environment Specialist. And she submitted to my Family doctor the result and forward to the Medical officer and still have the same result.

I know there are better/other ways to serve Canadians, but I want to serve other countries as well and show them what Canadians are when it comes to Humanitarian.

For me I wanted to explore and make a huge difference.  I want a more challenging career,  then I will still try and until I succeed.


----------



## mariomike

chatie25 said:
			
		

> What should I do?



It sounds like you have already done this. ( ? )

At any rate, you may, or may not, find this discussion of interest,

Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.0

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Ex00324

Good day, 

I've been lurking around for awhile before signing up. I have a little question regarding the processing time for the medical file review. I did my medical early December, was deemed fit by the PA, and my file was sent for final approval, Now I know the recruiting center says about 3 months to be process, from what i can gather here the actual time seems to be 8-12 weeks. My question is does anybody here had their file marked as ''urgent'' when sent for review? I'm asking because mine was labeled as ''urgent, for re enrollment''  I'm hoping for faster than 3 months but I'm not holding my breath. I'm fully aware that I am not the only one being processed and that nobody other than Dmedpol would know for sure, that's why I'm asking if any one here had something similar.

Thank you


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

Mine was marked "urgent" as well...still took just under 3 months.


----------



## warface1987

I was wondering if anyone has an info about appealing a decision about being denied into the Reserves for Having Controlled hypothyroidism


----------



## jaredl888

So I was deemed medically unfit cause in high school (5 years ago) I went through a period of 4 months in which I went through a depressive phase and psychologists said I may had psychosis but I was never diagnosed with it. Any ways I took medication for a weeks and I didn’t wanna do it anymore. And after 4 months I stopped seeing doctors about the whole ordeal and I haven’t seen a doctor since the incident in 5 years. And when I applied for the military I passed everything except for the medical. So I need a doctors note to send to the medical examiner in Ottawa. So I asked my family doctor and she said she couldn’t write me a letter cause she doesn’t want to take a risk just in case something goes wrong ( as in if I’m in the military and I go AWOL or something) but I swear I’m all better now. And I can’t get a psychiatrist cause my doctor won’t refer to anyone cause apparently since I live in a different city then my doctor she can’t refer me. So I need to find a psychiatrist on my own but no one will take me cause I don’t have a doctors referral. Right now I’m at a stump on what to do. And I’m on here asking for anyones help. Thank you.


----------



## medicineman

jaredl888 said:
			
		

> And I can’t get a psychiatrist cause my doctor won’t refer to anyone cause apparently since I live in a different city then my doctor she can’t refer me. So I need to find a psychiatrist on my own but no one will take me cause I don’t have a doctors referral. Right now I’m at a stump on what to do. And I’m on here asking for anyones help. Thank you.



Red bit strikes me as fishy - my family doc is a 90 minute drive to another part of the province from me, yet he manages to refer me to the people he needs me to see within the province.  Do you live in another province?  If so, then that's likely the problem, since you might be under the wrong provincial health care plan...otherwise, my initial statement holds.

My advice is you either need to find a new family doc and have your records shipped over and start that way or find out what the bug up her behind really is.

 :2c:

MM


----------



## Blackadder1916

jaredl888 said:
			
		

> . . . I haven’t seen a doctor since the incident in 5 years.  . . . I need a doctors note . . .  asked my family doctor and she said she couldn’t write me a letter cause she doesn’t want to take a risk . . .



Like medicineman, I think we are hearing only part of the story (though I wouldn't categorize it as "fishy").  Likely, what you relate is indeed what you "think" is happening or what you think your "family" doctor said.

If you haven't seen a doctor in five years, are you sure that this doctor considers a doctor-patient relationship to still exist between the two of you (for new issues anyway), especially since you "may" be living outside her normal catchment area?  You seem to have two main issues with this physician.  Firstly, that she wouldn't prepare a "third-party report"* and secondly that she would not refer you to a psychiatrist.

Generally all jurisdictions in Canada hold that the obligation (ethically or legally?) to provide such reports depends on whether the physician has a treating relationship with the subject of the report.  As to the circumstances of your case, (five years since you saw this physician for health services) this blurb from the Canadian Medical Protective Association (CMPA - the liability/malpractice insurer in Canada) provides a good outline of what they should report.


> It is not uncommon to receive a request for a report about a patient whom you have not attended for some time. You are still obliged to provide a report as to the patient's condition at the time of last attendance. Generally, you are not obliged to call the patient back for reassessment. The report should indicate when you first saw the patient for the condition, when you last saw the patient, and should make it clear your report is limited to that period of contact with the patient. You would obviously be unable to comment on the patient's current condition.



In my opinion, this physician does have some obligation to provide a third party report (at your request, with your consent and with the payment of whatever fee that doctor has set - this is not a health service and thus is not covered by provincial insurance).  Such a report should only cover the interaction you had with this doctor five years ago and should include the details of how/why you first sought help from her, any referral she made to specialists (i.e. who sent you to the psychologists?), any diagnosis or impressions she (or the psychologists) made back then, any treatment she prescribed and the progress you made including you ceasing to see the doctor for follow-up.  Her report would not be able to provide any opinion about your current health status (mental or otherwise) since you have not seen her in five years.  You may not be happy with an honest report.

One of the common complaints about civilian medical practitioners providing medical reports for CF applicants is that they give opinions about whether or not the applicant can do the job for which they are applying.  That is not what is wanted; the report should include only the facts of the patient's condition, treatment and progress (if known).

Referring to a psychiatrist - I can only make a supposition about the reluctance of this doctor to refer you to a psychiatrist since I don't know her or the complete story.  However, she "may" have difficulty in finding a psychiatrist to accept a referral since you are not presenting with a health complaint but are seeking someone solely to complete a third party report stating that you are now better that you were five years ago; this may be more difficult since it would have to be a psychiatrist who did not see you when you were in your "depressive phase" and thus has no basis on which to judge your improvement.  Now, since the "psychologists" seemingly had input into whatever original diagnosis was made, can your doctor refer you to them (or to a clinical psychologist in current location) to do the same thing they did five years ago, make an evaluation of your mental status?  Either, your family doctor or your original psychologist should still have copies of any reports they made back then of your condition and this can be a starting point for someone accepting you as a new patient/client.


http://www.cpso.on.ca/Policies-Publications/Policy/Third-Party-Reports
* Third party reports: Forms, letters or reports physicians are asked to complete or prepare in relation to a third party process that are *not for the purpose of the provision of health care*.


----------



## war2001v

Hi all,
I applied for the primary reserves a while back and got medically rejected, and so I submitted an appeal which included a note and report from my doctor stating that I have been off medications for a while now and that there is an extremely low chance of reoccurrence. However, my appeal was also rejected saying that I do not meet the common enrollment medical standards since there is apparently a high chance of my condition reoccurring, I contacted the medical technician that was in charge of my case and he was also confused, and said he would try to look into it. Anyways, I was wondering if there is anyway to get your file looked at again after your appeal is turned down, preferably by another medical officer, or if this is just the end? 
P.S. thought I might include that I hold NOTHING against the medical officer and that I know that HE is the medical professional who has the final rule, I just thought that it would be nice to get a sort of second opinion on the matter


----------



## PuckChaser

Your second opinion is the appeal. Good luck.


----------



## war2001v

Hi there,
Yes I initially thought that the appeal would be the second opinion but the signature at the end of my first rejection and my appeal letter seem to be from the same person, I was wondering if there was anyway to directly ask for a different medical officer to review my case?


----------



## Wesser122368

I hope everyone can cross their fingers wish me luck pray and anything else you can think of as it has been since March of 2017 I am on my 3rd appeal to get in the military and start and finish my career with them I am 49 5 10 205 been going to gym last 3 years healthy strong and have 25 years in IT experience the reason I am constantly getting rejected I told them I have headaches which were a minor thing but since I went to a neurologist they believe I have a chronic issue which i don’t. My last appeal may 4 2018 which is my 2nd so hopefully third time is lucky as all I desire is to serve my country and finish off my career with the military, I have all paperwork and a second neurologist confirming there is nothing wrong with me. I have had 4 complete medical in the last 1.5 years and have spent thousands of dollars preparing myself mentally physically and spiritually for a life in the Canadian Army and I am hoping I can get in the next BMQ which I asked and the said would be starting end of June early July 2018 as basic training is so much easier in summer than winter and I love the heat, if anyone has advice recommendations or anything else let me know, please PM me.

Edited to remove personal information.


----------



## AbdullahD

You may want to remove your cell from your post and people can just PM you for it... I dont trust the internet.

Abdullah


----------



## Denrozan

The feeling of me now is very glad to be with everyone here.


----------



## homan19902014@gmail.com

Hi,
I emailed recruiting office in Toronto asking them about my medical process, and I received an email from them telling that medical officer in Ottawa was reviewing my file and may have identified a requirement for additional info. Now, I did all the blood work and eye test and the doctor told me I am ok, so I am confused and worried about why they need more additional info
They asked to follow up with them in 2 weeks 
FYI I applied for Aerospace control operator 
Thank you


----------



## nhall22

Has anyone ever successfully appealed being deemed medically unfit to join the Canadian Forces? I am extremely healthy/fit and have no idea why they made this decision...It seems like they made a mistake.  I won't know the reason why until I get a letter in 3-4 months (what a joke)


----------



## mariomike

nhall22 said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever successfully appealed being deemed medically unfit to join the Canadian Forces?



You may find this discussion of Medical Appeals of interest,

Medical Rejected - Now what? [Merged] 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22935.150.html
7 pages.

Medical appeal
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca++medical+appeal&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gws_rd=ssl


----------



## BeyondTheNow

nhall22 said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever successfully appealed being deemed medically unfit to join the Canadian Forces? I am extremely healthy/fit and have no idea why they made this decision...It seems like they made a mistake.  I won't know the reason why until I get a letter in 3-4 months (what a joke)



What, exactly, is the joke? That you’re not at the top of their priority list in terms of receiving further correspondence while they continue to review hundreds of application processes? Or that you don’t know why you were rejected? Or both? 

I understand your frustration and confusion, but if you are successful in your appeal (and if you honestly have absolutely zero inkling as to why you were found medically unfit, then I’d encourage you to appeal) you need to be aware that very, very little occurs quickly in the Forces. As well, calling anything related to the CAF “a joke” before you’re even in is disrespectful and arrogant.


----------



## nhall22

The "joke" is that they can email me instead of sending a letter months down the road.  Let's communicate a little more efficiently you know?


----------



## PMedMoe

nhall22 said:
			
		

> The "joke" is that they can email me instead of sending a letter months down the road.  Let's communicate a little more efficiently you know?



Medical info is considered confidential and not send via email.


----------



## nhall22

Ah ok that makes a little more sense.  Guess I'll hurry up and wait lol.


----------



## childs56

Having to wait three or four months, especially if the person does not know the exact reason for the deferral is not what I would call good service. If he is wanting to Appeal this finding if it is allowed then he needs those records sooner then later. Everything he has done is considered time sensitive. 
I would be frustrated and a bit let down. especially since they have no answer at the center and are saying to appeal it with no further info.
One avenue you have is to put in a Freedom Of Information Act Request about your information. Be specific with dates and times and name/ positions of those involved.  They have to respond within 30day and  you usually have your information shortly after that time limit. 
Be aware some of the geniuses think this is a bad thing to do, it might offend one of those people who feel offended about every and anything if the ball doesnt fall straight in the basket. 
Another thing is it might tie up your official records longer to get to you because now they have to gain access and then copy them for you. 

it is another avenue to take and you might get your information quicker,


----------



## JesseWZ

CTD said:
			
		

> Having to wait three or four months, especially if the person does not know the exact reason for the deferral is not what I would call good service. If he is wanting to Appeal this finding if it is allowed then he needs those records sooner then later. Everything he has done is considered time sensitive.
> I would be frustrated and a bit let down. especially since they have no answer at the center and are saying to appeal it with no further info.
> One avenue you have is to put in a Freedom Of Information Act Request about your information. Be specific with dates and times and name/ positions of those involved.  They have to respond within 30day and  you usually have your information shortly after that time limit.
> Be aware some of the geniuses think this is a bad thing to do, it might offend one of those people who feel offended about every and anything if the ball doesnt fall straight in the basket.
> Another thing is it might tie up your official records longer to get to you because now they have to gain access and then copy them for you.
> it is another avenue to take and you might get your information quicker,



Before I begin, I'd like to point out I am both a frequent user of the ATI and Privacy (ATIP) Process in the course of investigations, and have had myself and my work the subject of numerous ATI requests, so I'm somewhat familiar with the process. 

Freedom of Information _Access to Information_ does not include ones own personal medical records. The applicant would need to file a request pursuant to the *Privacy Act*. Luckily, the process is nearly identical, except you don't have to pay a fee when it concerns the Privacy Act (as those records apply only to the party requesting them). For example, I cannot request *your* service records under the _Privacy Act_ as a lay person.

This is where you can make a request pursuant to the Privacy Act. If it's an open or ongoing issue, I doubt you will receive anything until the issue is resolved (ie you are processed, rejected, or your appeal(s) are concluded). The ideal timeline *is* 30 days, however there are too many factors to count as to why that often isn't so. I would not throw all my chickens in the basket of getting your information within 30 days. 

Lastly, I don't want to give the impression I'm encouraging or discouraging you from submitting an ATIP request. I don't work in recruiting, but I imagine their operational tempo is high. I don't think anyone is unprofessional enough to want to cause your application harm further down the road because you ATIP'd yourself, but I've been surprised by ATIP findings plenty in recent days. 

As a note of personal advice to the OP, if you have a medical issue significant enough to warrant your application being rejected, and you really truly don't know about it, I would strongly consider booking an appointment with your doctor.


----------



## BDTyre

When I was applying I was medically rejected and appealed it successfully. Long story short, the CF decided I still had a medical condition I suffered from as a child even though I did not. The process of appealing it was long and drawn out and if you don't give the CF everything the ask for it further draws out the process and can still result in a rejection.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

nhall22 said:
			
		

> Ah ok that makes a little more sense.  Guess I'll hurry up and wait lol.





			
				CTD said:
			
		

> Having to wait three or four months, especially if the person does not know the exact reason for the deferral is not what I would call good service. If he is wanting to Appeal this finding if it is allowed then he needs those records sooner then later. Everything he has done is considered time sensitive.
> I would be frustrated and a bit let down. especially since they have no answer at the center and are saying to appeal it with no further info.
> One avenue you have is to put in a Freedom Of Information Act Request about your information. Be specific with dates and times and name/ positions of those involved.  They have to respond within 30day and  you usually have your information shortly after that time limit.
> Be aware some of the geniuses think this is a bad thing to do, it might offend one of those people who feel offended about every and anything if the ball doesnt fall straight in the basket.
> Another thing is it might tie up your official records longer to get to you because now they have to gain access and then copy them for you.
> 
> it is another avenue to take and you might get your information quicker,



It won't take 3-4 months to receive the letter that states you are medically unfit for service.

The day they make the ruling, the letter goes into the mail.

You'll get in about 2-3 weeks.


----------



## garb811

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> It won't take 3-4 months to receive the letter that states you are medically unfit for service.
> 
> The day they make the ruling, the letter goes into the mail.
> 
> You'll get in about 2-3 weeks.


And this is based on what exactly? Your extensive experience working in that office?

Even IF this is based on personal experience, where you actually received a similar letter, does not mean that will be the OP's experience. You have zero intimate knowledge of his case, don't go around giving false hopes when he has been given a specific timeline by someone who has actual knowledge of what they had been told to pass on...


----------



## JoeyC

Hi,

First of all, thank you for your time, I will try to make a long story short.

In september 2017, just before I turn 30, I quited smoking both cigaret and cannabis. I was smoking both since 2004. I did stop overnight, eithout help of any sort and without going back.

I submitted my application in november 2017. I did pass the aptitude test and have been totally honnest on the drug and alcool consumption survey so, I got an email saying I need to wait a year before I can try again. So I did. 

In September 2018, I tried again and got my medical appointment on December 14 2018. The medical officer told me that everything was in order but to go on in with my demand I needed to consult a psychologist to confirm that I'm not addicted to cannabis and that I am able to handle stress and pressure. So I did. One month later, I submitted the report from the psychologist who stated that I am not addicted and that I do can handle stress.

3 month later I received a letter stating that I am refused due to my earlier repeated and frequent cannabis consumption. Yes I was smoking often and sometimes multiple time a day but only after work and also, the quantity never been asked...I was smoking often but really small quantities. The letter state that I can ask for a medical file revision and that I should be stating which aspect of my refusal I disagree with. So I did. I wrote a whole page about the fact that I know I made bad decision in the past but that those thing are behind me and that I am fully committed to join the forces and follow the rules. Plus, it is the only stain in my folder. I have never been arrested for anything, never did nothing specially wrong, I was just a cannabis smoker. Also, even as a smoker I was doing sports regularly so I am still in a good shape. (I did practice for the F.O.R.C.E test and beat the minimum easily)

Then I went to the recruitment centre to give the letter and ask for advice. I have been told that without documents from a specialist, my demand will most likely wont change anything. So I asked what should I do? Should I go get another report from another psychologist or is it useless? No one seemed to know as they can't acces my medical folder. They said try and see, it's the best way to know...

So my he's my question: is there a way to know if I am and will be refused for good? I don't really want to spend another 350$ for a psychologist report stating the exact same thing as the first one but I totally will if there is the slightest chance it will work. Someone don't just decide to join the CAF at 30 without being totally serious about it and I think that with all the time and effort I have put in it, even after 2 refusal, I have shown that my choice is made and I am really commited to be part of the CAF.

I just think that it is a bit sad that I am refused because of something I don't do anymore and is now totally legal. I can't stop thinking that someone dishonest with the same background as me would probably have been accepted.

Thank you very much and sorry for my broken English, I'm a french Canadian.

Joey Côté


edits: fixing typos...


----------



## mariomike

JoeyC said:
			
		

> The letter state that I can ask for a medical file revision and that I should be stating which aspect of my refusal I disagree with.



You may find this discussion of interest,

Appeal of Enrollment Medical [Merged] 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22935.0
8 pages.

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date, information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## JoeyC

Thank you for your reply!

I totally understand that this forum is not official and I know that answer or advice i get here must be taken with a grain of salt.
I was just seeking advice and thought that it would be the best place to find someone who is in the same boat as me or saw/heard similar story.
That said, I have read the whole other post and what is bugging me, is:

- That I already saw professionals who stated that I'm OK, I have already proven that I am not addicted.
- There is no precise statement on what should be fixed, just stating that I don't fit the standard because I was using (now legal) drug.
- The recruiting officers had no clues on what was the best way to do.

It seems that other people either haven't seen a professional prior to the letter, got some sort clear statement telling them what to fix or had or have had health problem of some sort.

I just don't get why I'm refused. I am healthy and doing sports, do not have any medical problem, do not need to be followed by any expert for anything and I am honnest.

One thing I asked the at the recruitment centre was if I am limited to one appeal and they couldn't tell me for sure. If I can send my letter stating why I think they are wrong about my medical requirements and then, if it fail, send an official report from a professional, I would do it this way and try to save some money.

I understand that it's always better to do it once but do it right, but since I have been waiting for 1.5 year while taking only short therm work contracts and hoping I'd get a call, money is quite scarce at the moment.

Thanks again, much appreciated!

JoeyC


----------



## mariomike

JoeyC said:
			
		

> Thank you for your reply!
> 
> Thanks again, much appreciated!
> 
> JoeyC



You are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## JoeyC

So, basically after a month or running in circles, no one really knows or can say what would be (in average) the threshold or if my appeal even got a chance. I just got a letter from my family physician stating I don't need medical support/attention/care whatsoever and that there is no case of addiction in my family. I will submit that with my appeal. I am currently trying to find a psychologist willing to consult me but so far, just like last time, as soon as I mention the CAF they don't want to do it. Last time I called 23 of them before I found one willing to fill the sheet given at medical test. I don't know why psychologist are afraid to make documents that will be submitted to CAF but I can assure you that it is very real and starting to get annoying. I will keep this post updated when there will be changes so others with similar background will be able to have a base line.

Have a nice day.

Edit: I have been told by a psychologist the maybe a criminologist could do it. Anyone know if this would be relevant? (Bit "it" a mean a report stating that I have no chance of relapse.)


----------



## militaryfamily14

I'm just wondering if anyone is currently waiting to do their interview but haven't been given clearance from the RMO? 

I had my medical in January 2019, the medical doctor, for whatever reason, deemed me unfit and then gave me some forms for my doctor to sign. 

I got the papers signed, expressed post it back to the recruitment office and they sent it off. 

I've been calling every two weeks to find out what's going on and they say that the head RMO office is backed up for months? 


*Back story

I've already been in the CAF, voluntarily released due to what I thought was a past leg issue. I VRd because I wanted my doctor to handle it because he knew of the issue.

I got all my clearance from my doctors, went and saw specialists and I'm completely fine. Turns out it was just me being out of shape. Then I hired a personal trainer and have been seeing her for almost a year now. So I'm 100% ready.


----------



## JordaJarv

Good Morning Army.ca,

I am looking for advice and direction with a problem that hit me like a ton of brinks, I was deemed "Unfit For Service"

Background - I originally applied to the forces in August 2016, I did my CFAT and moved onto the next step being the prior drug usage.. and that's where this starts.

I wasn't the best kid and I consumed my fair share of cannabis. I then realized what I wanted to do with my life and applied to the Forces so I stopped and applied.
I was told I had to be "clean" for a year, so I returned in a year.

After jumping through hoop after hoop and signing and filling out form after form it took another year, but I finally got my medical and passed.

A week later I get a call saying I need to get one more thing filled out and submitted. I had to get my Family Doctor to fill out a form about drug abuse, considering I had been sober for two years at this point, I thought nothing of it they were covering their bases. I submitted it a week later.

No, I was wrong. A little over two months pass and I haven't heard anything, so I decide to go in and talk with a recruiter. Who then informs me that a different Medical Officer took over my file and deemed that I was now "Unfit For Service" due to whatever he decided.  

My file permanently reads Drug Abuse Disorder.

I have been struggling and weighing my options for the past few months, having come to a decision, I plan on making an appeal and pursuing this career. 

It has been Three Years I am sober and Cannabis is now legal, but here I am, while the Army is struggling, looking for people, Unfit for Service.


My question is what do I do?
How do I go about appealing this? 
Will this affect me if I do appeal and get in?

    Thank you for any information,  - Jordan Jarvis


----------



## KingstonHale

Hi everybody, 

I am located in Kingston and fill-in an application for the Reserve, 21 EW Regt (Comm Research). I successfully completed the fitness test, the aptitude tests and the interview. From the nurse opinion’s who evaluated my medicals, I am fit for training. However, it seems to take forever for the medicals to get processed. 

Summer time seems to be the busiest time of the year, here in Kingston as of recruitment. I was hoping to get to Gagetown before July. Seems it won’t be happening. Just a bit disappointed because the Officer who gave me the interview advised me to inform my employer as soon as possible, because I would be leaving shortly for BMQ - which I did. For that reason, my employment contract have been shortened by a couple of weeks. I have to be back in Kingston by July 10th, and it’s already end of May. Seems I won’t be able to make it for the 8 weeks training. 

I was wondering if Gagetown base may not be operational right now because of the flooding? However, the officer told me that BMQ training programs start every week of the summer....Do they send to training in priority recruits for the regular forces over the reserve? Do anybody knows if there are BMQ going on between August and December? I understand things work differently with CAF....I was just wondering a little bit what to expect....

Thanks a lot, 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jordansp2016

When I got a letter from the rmo, they rejected me because I have symptoms of asthma after the age of 13. But my asthma is so minor that I have played two hockey and junior hockey, I can run, bike outside, I’ve dirt biked all my life and I havnt needed to carry a rescue inhaler since I was maybe 10 years old. Further to that, I don’t even take my asthma medication anymore and I have a letter from a medical doctor saying that I am not asthmatic and the results of a pulmonary function test to prove it. I sent that all in with my application and got turned away because of asthma. I got upset and threw out the letter and now I have no idea how to appeal the decision. How do I start this process ?


----------



## xelia

Hello!
I have the same inquiry. I received the letter saying I was rejected because of Iron deficiency. But I have copy of my lab reports and my Doctor told me my number is not Iron deficient. The appeal instruction on the letter is to submit for consideration new pertinent medical information. I want to know what exactly is the process of appealing? Do I have to submit new blood works? Is there an official form that should be filled out by my doctor to detail or explain my lab results?
Please help. Thanks!


----------



## Jiminito

Does anyone have a PDF copy of the forms needed for medical appeal? Can someone send me a copy?
Thanks


----------



## PMedMoe

Jiminito said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a PDF copy of the forms needed for medical appeal? Can someone send me a copy?
> Thanks



Just what are your going to appeal?  This answer was pretty clear:


			
				jaqen said:
			
		

> I think your options are limited. You have to improve your unaided vision somehow and the only way to do that is through Lasik. So it's either lasik or no CF.


----------



## Scott1867

I was recently rejected for Infantry Officer because I was deemed medically unfit due to subclinical thyroiditis.  Earlier this year I received a stem cell treatment which has reversed all of my symptoms and my bloodwork is now normal.  I was not on medication before the treatment, nor after, and have not been under doctor supervision since - My doctor even sent a form indicating that there should be no reason why I  would be unfit for service. I have since cleaned up my diet, which was terrible, am now exercising multiple times a day, and getting adequate sleep to prepare for the infantry.  Would anyone have any information as to what I can expect for my appeal process? Any advice as to how to get into the Forces would be welcomed.

Tl;Dr Was sick and am now healthy.  Any advice as to how I can succeed in the appeal process would be appreciated.


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## medicineman

You'll need to prove you're euthyroid and continue to remain that way...might benefit to have a letter from an endocrinologist attesting to the same, but that could take some time to get into one.

MM


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## CFMark

So, I passed all the tests (Force test and all), did the interview for becoming an officer yet during my medical test made the mistake of saying I hurt my knee after the Force test (incidentally, I beat out a 19 year old...I'm 45!). I DID say that I'm doing physio and everything told me was that I'd be fine in time for Fall basic training.

I got a letter rejecting my application because of my knee!! (remember, I told them my doctor/ physiotherapist said I'd be good to go). The letter is extremely vague in terms of my options for appealing and even who to address questions, clarifications, or what specifically needs to be sent over to get their...pardon my language...head out of their #@!*&!

Sorry if I'm venting....just want to get on with this.


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## da1root

Get in touch with your recruiting centre and ask to speak with the Medical Staff; they can give you more direction on what exactly you need to do.
Since you did the FORCE test prior to BMQ/BMOQ you're applying to the PRes so you should also engage your Unit Recruiter as they could have further information for you as well.


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## Scott1867

medicineman said:
			
		

> You'll need to prove you're euthyroid and continue to remain that way...might benefit to have a letter from an endocrinologist attesting to the same, but that could take some time to get into one.
> 
> MM



Thank you for the advice.  I have been contacting the medical staff at the recruiting office periodically for about three weeks since I recieved my denial letter.  Is it normal to not hear back from them for this long regarding my appeal process?  Also, what would you recommend I do in the meantime i.e. get more periodic bloodwork done (TSH,TPO), doctors letters, meeting with an endocrinologist?  What questions/requests should I ask/make of the endo?  Any assistance would be appreciated.

Best,

Scott


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## Smith7000

I'm going to be appealing the unfit ruling on my medical file. I'll be submitting documents in about two weeks. I was told it may take up to 6 months for a decision to be made on the appeal, yet I was told the same thing about my initial medical decision which only took 2 weeks. Do appeals always take a greater amount of time to process, even if you have made a strong case for your condition in your appeal?


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## BeyondTheNow

Smith7000 said:
			
		

> I'm going to be appealing the unfit ruling on my medical file. I'll be submitting documents in about two weeks. I was told it may take up to 6 months for a decision to be made on the appeal, yet I was told the same thing about my initial medical decision which only took 2 weeks. Do appeals always take a greater amount of time to process, even if you have made a strong case for your condition in your appeal?



Waiting time can vary simply because of the volume of files Ottawa might be dealing with at the time. Their overall load may be a bit lighter at times for various reasons, resulting in word coming down much faster than expected. When an approximate time frame is given, it's usually because that's what those providing the info have been advised is the average at the moment, or they're going off past experience. If info arrives faster, it's a plus. Sometimes it can take longer. Either way, there are many variables, so one just has to be patient.


----------



## Smith7000

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> Waiting time can vary simply because of the volume of files Ottawa might be dealing with at the time. Their overall load may be a bit lighter at times for various reasons, resulting in word coming down much faster than expected. When an approximate time frame is given, it's usually because that's what those providing the info have been advised is the average at the moment, or they're going offr past experience. If info arrives faster, it's a plus. Sometimes it can take longer. Either way, there are many variables, so one just has to be patient.



Thanks for the reply.
My understanding of the time it takes to process medicals is that if you are in good health, your file is processed at an expedited rate. I've also learned that appeals are given very low priority. If your appeal makes a strong case for your good health, is your appeal expedited as an initial medical would be?


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Smith7000 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.
> My understanding of the time it takes to process medicals is that if you are in good health, your file is processed at an expedited rate. I've also learned that appeals are given very low priority. If your appeal makes a strong case for your good health, is your appeal expedited as an initial medical would be?



You’re welcome. Unfortunately I can’t answer that question with any detail; I’m only aware of most processes at that level in fairly general terms. Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can offer more assistance.


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## medicineman

Smith7000 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.
> If your appeal makes a strong case for your good health, is your appeal expedited as an initial medical would be?



I would have to say no...largely from experience of being on the end generating the medical, but also because of a family member the was getting a run around through the appeal process.  There are 3 general piles of files that come from the CFRC's - "Recommend Immediate Enrollment", "Further Investigation Required" and "No Friggin Way".  Appeals end up in the middle file - which, by and large, is the largest pile to go through and they are gotten to when and as they can and are heavily scrutinized - such as is the person writing it from a Doc in the Box that was collecting their $50 fee to write what you want them to say vs someone that's known you for some time?  Or a person that was in fact in the military vs someone who hasn't the slightest knowledge of what is required of a soldier at even the most basic of levels?  I remember once I was actually the person doing that for someone - because of my previous life, my comments were taken into consideration even though I wasn't their primary care giver...I did however I actually had access to their chart, which also made things a bit more credible; that's the exception though.

Hope that helps.

MM


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## Smith7000

medicineman said:
			
		

> I would have to say no...largely from experience of being on the end generating the medical, but also because of a family member the was getting a run around through the appeal process.  There are 3 general piles of files that come from the CFRC's - "Recommend Immediate Enrollment", "Further Investigation Required" and "No Friggin Way".  Appeals end up in the middle file - which, by and large, is the largest pile to go through and they are gotten to when and as they can and are heavily scrutinized - such as is the person writing it from a Doc in the Box that was collecting their $50 fee to write what you want them to say vs someone that's known you for some time?  Or a person that was in fact in the military vs someone who hasn't the slightest knowledge of what is required of a soldier at even the most basic of levels?  I remember once I was actually the person doing that for someone - because of my previous life, my comments were taken into consideration even though I wasn't their primary care giver...I did however I actually had access to their chart, which also made things a bit more credible; that's the exception though.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> MM


Thanks a lot for the detailed response.
Based on what you've said I can only assume that my file would have initially made its way into the "further investigation required" pile and it was processed in 2 weeks.

I was denied based on unknown likelihood of recurrence and am seeing my doctor(the same doctor who initially made the diagnosis) in the coming weeks. If she states that my likelihood of recurrence is low then there should be no reason to deny my medical as far as I can tell and it would also seem to me that I should be put in the "recommend immediate enrolment" pile at which point.

But who knows, I could of course be denied for another reason that was not stated in my rejection letter or at the very least be put into that "further investigation required" pile for a different reason.


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## PuckChaser

To be realistic here, you've self stated multiple treatments for depression, which seems to be why you were rejected. You're now applying for a job in a highly stressful occupation that is causing individuals to have mental health issues in some cases right from BMQ onwards. Unless your doctor is former or current service,  they'd have no idea what you're signing up to do. 

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Smith7000

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> To be realistic here, you've self stated multiple treatments for depression, which seems to be why you were rejected. You're now applying for a job in a highly stressful occupation that is causing individuals to have mental health issues in some cases right from BMQ onwards. Unless your doctor is former or current service,  they'd have no idea what you're signing up to do.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


So I take it you're saying I don't have a chance at a successful appeal. 
Why even allow me to appeal then? The RMO isn't even requesting that I see a psychiatrist, just that my doctor says that I am not at a high risk of recurrence.
The RMO also could have stated that I cannot appeal for a year or more, but instead said that I am eligible to appeal as of January 2020.

To give me requirements to appeal but still be ineligible if said requirements are met seems cruel.


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## Eye In The Sky

No one is saying you have no chance.  Go back and read his post.  Then read it again.

If you can appeal, and you want to, do it.  Or don't do it.  None of us on here are going to give you the thumbs up/down.

"Cruel".  Or, fair.  An appeal is no guarantee you will succeed, or fail.  It's a chance to provide more info for consideration.  Don't go getting all upset;  you've been given the opportunity to provide something that could be considered "representation"...it's part of procedural fairness.  Not cruelty.

Roll the dice, or don't but whatever the outcome, you can't necessarily hold the CAF responsible for your history, right?  Right.

Goof luck.


----------



## Smith7000

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> No one is saying you have no chance.  Go back and read his post.  Then read it again.
> 
> If you can appeal, and you want to, do it.  Or don't do it.  None of us on here are going to give you the thumbs up/down.
> 
> "Cruel".  Or, fair.  An appeal is no guarantee you will succeed, or fail.  It's a chance to provide more info for consideration.  Don't go getting all upset;  you've been given the opportunity to provide something that could be considered "representation"...it's part of procedural fairness.  Not cruelty.
> 
> Roll the dice, or don't but whatever the outcome, you can't necessarily hold the CAF responsible for your history, right?  Right.
> 
> Goof luck.



Thank you for the response.

I am absolutely going to appeal until I am no longer able to generate any new evidence of my health.

I promise I am not upset and I understand that no one is responsible for my past but myself.

What I mean by 'cruel' is as follows:
The RMO states that my risk of recurrence is unknown and therefore cannot pass my medical. The RMO requests a letter from my doctor that states that my risk of recurrence is low. If I then provide that letter, along with as much additional evidence I can produce and am deemed to still be at risk of recurrence and must then pursue a psychiatric evaluation to deem my risk to be low...it seems cruel to give me this runaround when I could have just been told to get a psych eval initially.

RMOlease produce X, Y is not necessary at this time
Me: Produces X
6 months later
RMO: Please produce Y, as X is not enough at this time.
And then I must wait an additional 6 months minimum to produce Y.

My point is that I've been told what I need to produce, and was under the assumption that should it be produced and RMO's request be met, that should be substantial but of course this is entirely subjective as it relates to mental health. I would rather wait 6-12 months from now to have a stronger case produced by a specialist than waste the next 6 months waiting for my GP's letter to not be sufficient and then begin the waiting game for a psychiatrist.

I've learned how to manage stress and avoid depressive issues. A history of depression is not necessarily indicative of a future of depression. In fact, my past issues have allowed me to build a solid foundation and learn coping mechanisms. It's also shown me that I never want to be in a position where I need to rely on psychotropic medication because the physical and mental side effects are not worth the main effects. Especially when thrre are natural ways to overcome many mental problems.

I understand this is all done to not only protect me, but those I will hopefully be working with one day and that I am not entitled to a job with the CAF.

I regret the way I may have come off in the previous posts. I absolutely do not mean to sound whiny or entitled. I just don't want to waste he next 6 months waiting for a denial when I could be waiting to see a specialist.


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## PuckChaser

I'm not sure, but I don't think you're going to appeal 3, 4 or 5 times. This might be your only shot, so fill it full of facts and documentation you deem relevant to give you the best case to overturn the decision. During the initial recruiting process, they're only going to ask you for certain documentation as the goal is to fast-track files with no, or easily/already remedied issues. When you're appealing, they're doing a deep-dive where all of a sudden the documentation is far more relevant as MM stated.

Yep, the process looks cruel. Welcome to the real world, and welcome to the CAF. You are just a number (or service number) and policies are designed to be uncaring to your personal feelings and rely as much as possible on facts and unbending processes. This does not change if you make it through the process and put your beret on for the first time at St. Jean. The system will test your new coping strategies more than you think.

If you're thinking you need to see a specialist to get properly cleared that your mental health concerns are truly behind you, then my personal advice is to hold off on your appeal and get that higher medical authority clearance to submit with your paperwork.


----------



## BDTyre

When I was rejected for childhood asthma, I appealed it. I performed the diagnostic testing the RMO required, had a positive outcome and a note from a pulmonary specialist stating he saw no evidence of asthma. I was rejected and stated I need to carry out a different diagnostic test. I did, and was told I could go no further in the test because I reached the maximum and there was clearly no sign of asthma. I sent the results off to the RMO and was rejected again, and again was asked to carry out a third diagnostic test (note that all three were different tests). I did so, and was told - again - absolutely no signs of asthma and that the only put in doing this test further would be to measure my heart rate at varying levels of fitness, which the test was not designed for. I sent this third set of results off and was finally accept.

Now given that the RMO rejected me on the basis of childhood exercise induced asthma, could they have just skipped the first two tests and had me take the last test, the one for exercise induced asthma? Sure. But they didn't. Could they have sent me a single note telling me to complete all three tests and then send them the results all in one go? Sure. But they didn't. And they had there reasons, which I can only speculate on.

Now keep in mind this is specific to my case, so your case may be different.

1) The initial test was a pulmonary function test. By doing this test first and sending the results in before anything else, they confirmed my lungs were functioning properly and my past asthma was not a result of poor lung function.

2) The second test was a methacholine challenge. My lungs work properly, now they want to rule out environmental factors.

3) Having ruled out environmental factors, now they can say for sure that my past asthma was exercise induced and have me do the exercise test to rule it out.

Yes, all three could have be done and then the results sent in. But if I failed the first or second test, why waste my time with the third. And if they only had my exercise test, what would happen if I ended up having an asthma attack while working when I hadn't been exercising?

As well, the fact I followed what they said and didn't just call it quits because they rejected me and made me appeal again with another test shows that I was determined to follow through and was capable of understanding what I being asked to do...important things when going through BMQ.

I can't speak to your individual case but yes, you may get multiple rejection letters with new instructions on how to appeal each time. If you truly believe you can be accepted and are prepared to back it up with professional medical evidence, then follow along with what they ask of you.


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## Smith7000

Thank you both for the information.

CanadianTire,  having the testing system set up in that way makes a lot of sense. If my current doctor were to say my risk of recurrence is high then why put a strain on a specialist's schedule that I wouldn't be seeing otherwise.

And even if my doctor says I'm low risk, having another rejection and subsequent testing required is a test of my mental health in itself. 

This is positive information. I'll make an appointment with a psychiatrist for when I'm likely denied again.

I'll post on here again when I receive my second letter.


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## medicineman

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> When I was rejected for childhood asthma, I appealed it. I performed the diagnostic testing the RMO required, had a positive outcome and a note from a pulmonary specialist stating he saw no evidence of asthma. I was rejected and stated I need to carry out a different diagnostic test. I did, and was told I could go no further in the test because I reached the maximum and there was clearly no sign of asthma. I sent the results off to the RMO and was rejected again, and again was asked to carry out a third diagnostic test (note that all three were different tests). I did so, and was told - again - absolutely no signs of asthma and that the only put in doing this test further would be to measure my heart rate at varying levels of fitness, which the test was not designed for. I sent this third set of results off and was finally accept.
> 
> Now given that the RMO rejected me on the basis of childhood exercise induced asthma, could they have just skipped the first two tests and had me take the last test, the one for exercise induced asthma? Sure. But they didn't. Could they have sent me a single note telling me to complete all three tests and then send them the results all in one go? Sure. But they didn't. And they had there reasons, which I can only speculate on.
> 
> Now keep in mind this is specific to my case, so your case may be different.
> 
> 1) The initial test was a pulmonary function test. By doing this test first and sending the results in before anything else, they confirmed my lungs were functioning properly and my past asthma was not a result of poor lung function.
> 
> 2) The second test was a methacholine challenge. My lungs work properly, now they want to rule out environmental factors.
> 
> 3) Having ruled out environmental factors, now they can say for sure that my past asthma was exercise induced and have me do the exercise test to rule it out.
> 
> Yes, all three could have be done and then the results sent in. But if I failed the first or second test, why waste my time with the third. And if they only had my exercise test, what would happen if I ended up having an asthma attack while working when I hadn't been exercising?
> 
> As well, the fact I followed what they said and didn't just call it quits because they rejected me and made me appeal again with another test shows that I was determined to follow through and was capable of understanding what I being asked to do...important things when going through BMQ.
> 
> I can't speak to your individual case but yes, you may get multiple rejection letters with new instructions on how to appeal each time. If you truly believe you can be accepted and are prepared to back it up with professional medical evidence, then follow along with what they ask of you.



Kind of the same crap and abuse that my eldest went through...serial negative tests but the clown at the RMO said he had asthma...so I told him to write a polite but firm letter saying that the person who was the actual consultant in respiratory medicine probably forgot more about his own job than the GDMO at the RMO knew.  I also suggested he intimate that refusing to acknowledge the specialist's notes, diagnosis and recommendation would likely result in a Ministerial Inquiry - I was hair's width from sending a letter to the CDS and the Minister regarding people that they're hiring that are giving the enrollment process and the CAF in general a really bad name.

Two weeks later, they're updating his medical and interview and was in St Jean a week after that...but this was the culmination of 7 years or so of BS in a system I'm ashamed to say I used to work in.  I have to give him credit for persevering - he's currently finishing 5th week.

MM


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## Smith7000

I'm very surprised how quick hey are to turn down applicants for health reasons. The recruitment medical sections of the CAF seems like the biggest barrier to entry in a system that needs to keep up with a 5-10% annual attrition rate. Would it not be easier to hire or contract different specialists to conduct medical testing for the CAF? They could test applicants and know exactly what they're applying for and how it relates to their current health. They could even charge applicants for visits...


----------



## BDTyre

Medicineman, I 100% get the frustration. At the time I was very unhappy with how it played out and while now I understand (I think) why it went that way, it doesn't mean I'm happy about it.

The entire process took me, I would say, almost a year. I was sworn in 1 year and 51 weeks after applying and most of those 51 weeks were spent waiting for a letter in the mail that told me what the next step was. The three appointments quite literally could have been done in the same day, even though they were split over two different hospitals. Even just being able to get an update on the phone would have sped things up, but no...everything had to be done through the mail (which I also understand).

But at the time I felt following instructions was the best course of action as I was confident I could be accepted, and it did pay off. I think had I been given a final rejection. I would have been much angrier about it.



			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> Kind of the same crap and abuse that my eldest went through...serial negative tests but the clown at the RMO said he had asthma...so I told him to write a polite but firm letter saying that the person who was the actual consultant in respiratory medicine probably forgot more about his own job than the GDMO at the RMO knew.  I also suggested he intimate that refusing to acknowledge the specialist's notes, diagnosis and recommendation would likely result in a Ministerial Inquiry - I was hair's width from sending a letter to the CDS and the Minister regarding people that they're hiring that are giving the enrollment process and the CAF in general a really bad name.
> 
> Two weeks later, they're updating his medical and interview and was in St Jean a week after that...but this was the culmination of 7 years or so of BS in a system I'm ashamed to say I used to work in.  I have to give him credit for persevering - he's currently finishing 5th week.
> 
> MM


----------



## PuckChaser

Smith7000 said:
			
		

> I'm very surprised how quick hey are to turn down applicants for health reasons. The recruitment medical sections of the CAF seems like the biggest barrier to entry in a system that needs to keep up with a 5-10% annual attrition rate. Would it not be easier to hire or contract different specialists to conduct medical testing for the CAF? They could test applicants and know exactly what they're applying for and how it relates to their current health. They could even charge applicants for visits...


No, we waste enough money running fat camp for people who can't pass the easiest PT test in NATO. Do you know how much money we'd waste giving every random Canadian a specialist appt that takes normal Canadians 6 months to get?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Smith7000

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> No, we waste enough money running fat camp for people who can't pass the easiest PT test in NATO. Do you know how much money we'd waste giving every random Canadian a specialist appt that takes normal Canadians 6 months to get?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk



Well I did say "They could even charge applicants for visits..."
It may even be profitable to do this given how many applicants require specialist attention and currently most applicants get the government to pay for their specialist visits by means of a doctor's referral anyway.

I was thinking this would be effective moreso because these specialists would become familiar with exactly how their patients' condition applies to the military. Also, RMO's would become familiar with these contracted doctors which can only be a good thing. Just a thought anyway.


----------



## winds_13

Smith7000, I fail to see how creating contracts with  numerous types of medical specialists would somehow be easier for the CAF recruitment system than putting the onus on the applicant... I mean, it would be easier for you, no doubt.

Also, while the CAF does have a high need for new members every year, we currently receive over 10 times the amount of applicants than we need.


----------



## dbsk_cassie

So I was rejected because of "Mild anxiety disorder"... all because I was honest about having one anxiety attack a while back after a bad and stressful day & week at work. I was tired and didn't want to get in front of 100 people to host an event, that I hadn't even plan for. I also mentioned not liking to present in front of others...My rejection letter said I could appeal and I plan on doing so because the RMO stating that I have a mild anxiety disorder is completely exaggerating my "condition". I've never dealt with anxiety in my life. Does anyone have any advice or tips of my appeal? Like what I should get done or how I could prove that it was a one time occurrence?


----------



## Honest_Canadian

Today I received an email that said I did not meet the Common Enrolment Medical Standards.  The only thing I can think of that would disqualify me would be my ADHD, for which I am medicated with Vyvanse.  If there is anything I can do, any information would be helpful.


----------



## da1root

Honest_Canadian said:
			
		

> Today I received an email that said I did not meet the Common Enrolment Medical Standards.  The only thing I can think of that would disqualify me would be my ADHD, for which I am medicated with Vyvanse.  If there is anything I can do, any information would be helpful.



You should also receive a letter detailing why your file was deemed not to meet CEMS and how you can appeal the decision if you do not agree with it.


----------



## Xylric

I got the letter which outlined the reasons for my medical rejection in January 2019. Having been working on sorting out the primary issue and other necessary things which would leave me with no loose ends related to it for the bulk of the past year, I am now in a position to again look into the enrollment process. If there is a time limit for appeals, I suspect I've already exceeded it. If not, well, as soon as the pandemic is over, I'm certainly going to be diving into doing what can be done.


----------



## Smith7000

I've received a rejection on my medical appeal. Is there a minimum amount of time that I must wait before submitting another appeal?


----------



## BDTyre

Not that I know of. You can immediately find out what the next steps are (if the rejection letter didn't outline them for you). The minimum amount of time is however long it takes to follow the next steps and send the results off.


----------

