# Unit training with local police service



## mondo (13 Jan 2006)

Recently our unit has begun training with our local police service, and the SWAT team for the city. I am very excited with the new information we are recieving and covering such topics as:

1. Self defense tactics
2. Arrest / Takedown maneuvers
3. CQB / Room clearing

As our unit has recently been disbanded and almost all reg - force mems have went on to different postings this should help increase recruiting for our unit, as we are struggling to intake new mems. I posted this thread in the training section because I was wondering what other units have direct training with outside services, ie SWAT teams, Police officers? Maybe this is new for me as I am just a reservist and in an artillery based unit. I'd imagine that other infrantry units are training with these services, or am I wrong.

Quo fas et gloria ducunt


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## brihard (16 Jan 2006)

It's not common, but not unheard of either- generally it takes a much more unofficial or casual profile, though. Some units will schedule familiarization shoots with local police forces where they both go out to a range and try each others' kit, though this is generally only common when police are occasionally using the same ranges anyway, such as at Connaught or Kingston.

There's no official cross training policy that I'm aware of, but I suppose one would have to guess that COs are invested with enough discretion to allow them if police contacts allow for the opportunity.

I personally think it's pretty cool, but that may jsut be the aspiring cop in me talking. I suspect the 'official' view would be that it's not quite kosher, since it could be bad PR if local police are reported to be training with military weapons and tactics.

Yours would be the first instance I've heard of an artillery regiment being involved with this... Generally it's R031s...


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## mondo (16 Jan 2006)

Rgr,

The aim or objective of this training was prep for OP Desert Griz in Feb 16 06 down in Camp Pendelton. We were training directly with the cities SWAT team. I too am aspiring to become an officer, so this face to face training with the 'elite' branch of our cities force was interesting to say the least. Topics we covered were:

1. Arresting/Searching a subject
2. Room Clearing/Stacking up to a room/Group movement
3. Tactical fire positions

We only had a short number of days to train directly with these guys, but we tried to absorb the information like a sponge! It was good stuff, and i think the main objective of the training was well received. To try to make us not look like big bags of **** when we go down to the states and train with the rest of 41 BDG & the americans.

On a side note, does anyone know what is going on down there, in terms of what the different units might be doing? information is starting to slowly trickle down the chain of command but, we are still in the dark

cheers,


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## Danjanou (16 Jan 2006)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Yours would be the first instance I've heard of an artillery regiment being involved with this... Generally it's R031s...



Maybe the Lethbridge ERT (SWAT is an LAPD term) figure they may need some close support 81mm or 105mm indirect fire in the future and are setting up the connections now. ;D

Seriously I do remember some training with local cops in Vancouver (Seaforths/VPD) and St John's (RNFLDR/RNC) when I was in, but it was done more or less "semi-officially" and seems to be more the exception to the rule. Not saying the ideadoes not have potential though especially in some of our larger urban centres.


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## mondo (16 Jan 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Maybe the Lethbridge ERT (SWAT is an LAPD term) figure they may need some close support 81mm or 105mm indirect fire in the future and are setting up the connections now. ;D



not to flame or anything, i know alot of agencies using the term ERT is common but they were calling themselves the SWAT team.


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## enfield (16 Jan 2006)

On Cougar Salvo last year (39 Bde's annual concentration, BC) there was a large official contingent of police officers taking part (various municipalities, I believe, including VPD). They played the role of local civilian police and Canadian police overseas assisting the CF in 3 Block War scenarios. I didn't get the chance to work directly with them, but it looked very much like the police learning about the army rather than vice versa, since they worked in our command structure (rather than having a police officer giving orders to the military). 

I don't want to pretend to be an expert on FIBUA, but isn't there some debate on the applicability of police SWAT-techniques to FIBUA? I seem to recall some discussion on here on this subject. The general idea, as I recall, was that ERT faces different situations, in different environments, with very different threats and weapons. 
I know in my experience working with police officers (of the non ERT variety) showed a VAST difference in notions of firepower, fire and movement, tactics, etc.


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## mondo (18 Jan 2006)

I agree with what you posted, but with the ever changing face of the terrorist threat we are facing in oversea theatres i think more training with these FIBUBA experts is befinical. I can't wait to get hired on the police service and work towards a SWAT career.


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## swanita (19 Jan 2006)

32 brigade did a domestic response exercise in early december that incorporated the local police department in a sort of protestor/riot scene. Also, there's talk of Mississauga fire department and my regiment sharing a training building in the future....things to look forward too perhaps??

Swanny


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## foerestedwarrior (19 Jan 2006)

Last year we did some training/shoot with the Barrie TRU team. We got to shoot their weapons(AR-15, Barreta, Shotgun, ARWEN, and some of us(ME) got shot with a taser). We also got to shoot our weapons aswell as they did too(84/m72 HEAT, M203 Live, C6, 50cal, 50cal sniper). Best shoot weekend I have ever done.


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## darmil (19 Jan 2006)

A few of us from the LER's did hostage training with the RCMP and EPS's tactical section in oct 04. I think we are doing live fire down in California, we are at the ATS this saturday when i find out more  I'll post it.


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## brihard (19 Jan 2006)

foerestedwarrior said:
			
		

> Last year we did some training/shoot with the Barrie TRU team. We got to shoot their weapons(AR-15, Barreta, Shotgun, ARWEN, and some of us(ME) got shot with a taser). We also got to shoot our weapons aswell as they did too(84/m72 HEAT, M203 Live, C6, 50cal, 50cal sniper). Best shoot weekend I have ever done.



Something about this sounds wrong- how is it that a PRes infantry outfit ahs access to the .50 MacMillan, or the .50 Browning M2? Or, for that amtter, live ammo for M203s and live M72s? You guys are lucky... Still, something seems wrong if other infantry aren't getting to use this stuff while police are expending military ammunition through them. I'm not overly resentful, but it strikes me that perhaps something's rotten in the kingdom of Denmark if this is the case.


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## mondo (19 Jan 2006)

sounds like some good training has went on... thats awesome!


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## Blakey (19 Jan 2006)

foerestedwarrior  

Where did the .50 LRSWS come from?


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## foerestedwarrior (20 Jan 2006)

OH, and the police had their sniper rifle out too.

The .50 cal sniper rifle was brought out, because one of the sniper instructors is a friend of a senior NCO in my unit, so he brought it out, and we only some of us got to fire 1 round each. The barrel life on those arn't great.

The .50 cal machine gun, my unit was running a DP2A(support weapons) course, and got a .50 for a famil shoot. So we just kept it an extra week. About the ammo, I have heard of other units doing shoot weekends were you just burn as much as you can, this isn't much different, just we got out hands on some cool stuff to use. The HEAT 84 was freaking AMAZING, so much better then TP.


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## mondo (20 Jan 2006)

we took out there MP5's and there duty hand-guns. It was alright, but nothing compared to shooting a .50 rifle


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## darmil (20 Jan 2006)

They don't teach .50CAL BMG on DP2A..They have too bring that gun back, it was awesome.... bring back the MG course!!!You guys need the MG  course not this DP2A crap.


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## foerestedwarrior (20 Jan 2006)

MikeH said:
			
		

> They don't teach .50CAL BMG on DP2A..They have too bring that gun back, it was awesome.... bring back the MG course!!!You guys need the MG  course not this DP2A crap.



I know they dont teach it, but they got it out for the guys to shoot it...

You should see what the .50 does to the police buletproof vest's :fifty:


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## darmil (20 Jan 2006)

I've shot 6" diameter poplar trees with a BMG snaps them like Popsicle sticks.So shooting a police vest is like shooting  paper ;D


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## 48Highlander (20 Jan 2006)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Something about this sounds wrong- how is it that a PRes infantry outfit ahs access to the .50 MacMillan, or the .50 Browning M2? Or, for that amtter, live ammo for M203s and live M72s? You guys are lucky... Still, something seems wrong if other infantry aren't getting to use this stuff while police are expending military ammunition through them. I'm not overly resentful, but it strikes me that perhaps something's rotten in the kingdom of Denmark if this is the case.



If your unit isn't using it, that's a unit problem.  Every unit gets a yearly ammo alotment....some of it gets used for training, and some units do an end-of-year famil shoot which uses up most of the leftover ammo from that alotment.


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## MightyMouse (22 Feb 2006)

mondo said:
			
		

> we took out there MP5's and there duty hand-guns. It was alright, but nothing compared to shooting a .50 rifle



You mean to say that they brought out their MP5's, because I remember that the only reason they would let us touch those babies was to remove it from them after we neutralized them.


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## mudgunner49 (23 Feb 2006)

foerestedwarrior said:
			
		

> Last year we did some training/shoot with the Barrie TRU team. We got to shoot their weapons(AR-15, Barreta, Shotgun, ARWEN, and some of us(ME) got shot with a taser). We also got to shoot our weapons aswell as they did too(84/m72 HEAT, M203 Live, C6, 50cal, 50cal sniper). Best shoot weekend I have ever done.



Dude,

not to p!$$ in anybody's Cheerios, but the TRU does NOT use the Beretta.  OPP uses Browning (tuned up by their own armorer) and SIG.

Just a FWIW...


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## foerestedwarrior (24 Feb 2006)

mudgunner49 said:
			
		

> Dude,
> 
> not to p!$$ in anybody's Cheerios, but the TRU does NOT use the Beretta.  OPP uses Browning (tuned up by their own armorer) and SIG.
> 
> Just a FWIW...



Well it said Beretta on the side, and it wasnt OPP. Barrie City police have their own TRU team.


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## mudgunner49 (28 Feb 2006)

foerestedwarrior said:
			
		

> Well it said Beretta on the side, and it wasnt OPP. Barrie City police have their own TRU team.



*That's not TRU*, that's the Barrie Police Service Containment Team - *TRU* is an *OPP-specific * unit and I'm pretty sure there is no other ERT/SERT/SWT/yada-yada in the Province of Ontario that is designated as *TRU*.  Barrie's Police Service has cross-trained in the past with the OPP TRU Team out of Barrie, however that unit is no more, and that support is now out of Orrilia, and has been for a couple of years at least.

Attention to detail...


blake


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## Thompson_JM (28 Feb 2006)

mudgunner49 said:
			
		

> *That's not TRU*, that's the Barrie Police Service Containment Team - *TRU* is an *OPP-specific * unit and I'm pretty sure there is no other ERT/SERT/SWT/yada-yada in the Province of Ontario that is designated as *TRU*.  Barrie's Police Service has cross-trained in the past with the OPP TRU Team out of Barrie, however that unit is no more, and that support is now out of Orrilia, and has been for a couple of years at least.
> 
> Attention to detail...
> 
> ...



Not to stir the pot but Halton police service refer to their team as a Tactical Rescue Unit or TRU team.  when it all comes down to it, arnt we really just arguing semantics at that point? ETF, TRU, SWAT, SERT... theyre all highly trained, skilled, Armed Tactical Response Units created to deal with high risk situations in which a regular patrol officer would not have the training, equiptment or abilities to deal with. 

Taken from the halton police website: http://www.hrps.on.ca

The Halton Regional Police Tactical Rescue Unit (T.R.U.) was formed in 1980 to provide an additional level of support throughout the Service in areas such as hostage taking or rescue situations. The original Tactical Rescue Unit consisted of "part time" members who performed regular policing duties but were on call for tactical operations.

With the implementation of the Provincial Adequacy Standards in January 2001, T.R.U. became a full time unit. Team members participate in patrol functions and augment the District's staffing. Training is an integral part of the Tactical Rescue Unit. Specialized weaponry and skills allow for an effective response, using the minimum amount of force, to the following situations:

High-risk stronghold assaults - barricaded or otherwise. 
High-risk prisoner escort/witness protection. 
High-risk vehicle assaults. 
High-risk arrests. 
Injured person rescue. 
Stealth entry into premises. 
Crisis intervention first response - emotionally disturbed or persons in crisis. 
The Halton Regional Police Tactical Rescue Unit also performs the following non-emergency support duties:

Containment of premises pending warrants, i.e. "Feeney". 
Searches for missing persons. 
Evidence searches. 
Surveillance of premises. 
Public speaking engagements. 
Enforcement of federal, provincial and municipal statutes. 
Assistance to Halton and Hamilton police canine officers when requested. 
Patrolling in a proactive, reactive and crime preventative manner. 
______________________________________________________________________________________

Now, to get back on topic...

I have a freind who is attached posted to the lincon & welland Regt. and the Coy he is with has TONS of niagra RP's in it. so there is alot of military/police cross training there. especially since one of the platoon officers is a Team Leader on one of the Tactical Teams. he was saying they do some pretty good training there...

cheers
     josh


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## mudgunner49 (28 Feb 2006)

cpl t,

You are correct, it is semantics.  I was unaware of the fact that Halton called their containment/high risk/tactical team TRU, however when terminology is used incorrectly with identificatio of kit or TTP's (in this case wpns) it either  *a. * looks like the poster does not kow what they are talking about, or *b. * sets off the detector.

Please note that I never said that there was no other unit in the province called TRU, only that I was unaware of any and that Barrie's was called something else... 


be safe - shoot first,

blake


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## Thompson_JM (28 Feb 2006)

I do agree with the importance of using proper terminology.

I didnt mean to imply that you said there was not another unit called TRU. I just felt that further clarification was in order. 

Cheers.

    Josh


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## mudgunner49 (28 Feb 2006)

Cpl Thompson said:
			
		

> I do agree with the importance of using proper terminology.
> 
> I didnt mean to imply that you said there was not another unit called TRU. I just felt that further clarification was in order.
> 
> ...



We are reading from the same sheet of music...


be safe,

blake


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## Thompson_JM (1 Mar 2006)

God willing in a few years I'll be playing for the band.....

just need to pass that damned PATI..... stupid math...


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