# CF'S Beginner



## Carmin3 (4 Feb 2007)

Ok so i know that my questions have more then likely been answered at some point in this forum , but im gonna ask it anyway.

First off i have grade.10 , but just a few months ago i decided to make the choice of quiting school , i did make sure i had all necessary credits for the bare minimum to join the  CF'S , and from reading the many previous posts that were related to mine in some way i get mixed emotions about joining with minimum requirements so heres what i ask.

1. (Joining with minimum requirements) - is there any problems that will halt and or interfere with the joining process.

2. (Joining with minimum requirements) - Will my future in the CF'S be ruined due to educational issues , ie: Upgrading to a higher rank such as sergeant or lieutenant , (and any other ranks).

I think that's it , well for now that's all i have on my mind , and id appreciate a response from someone that either has gone through a similar problem or knows exactually my problem.

Thanks in advance  -Carmin3-


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## Michael OLeary (4 Feb 2007)

Do not quit school. There are a few threads dealing with this specific point.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24561.0.html

The FAQs are also useful.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103985.html#msg103985

The search function works, make sure you also practice using the time and forum limiting options to narrow the search.


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## career_radio-checker (4 Feb 2007)

Well before anyone gives you a lecture on staying in school, I would just say that we all have our strengths and weaknesses and sometimes the way we learn is just not formatted to the education system. My brother never did well in school yet he is excelling in a correspondence course for his Bachelors in business. So anyone who would give you ruckus about dropping out just say hey that was my decision and it was I who made it. (you might face this stigma)

In answer to your questions: Your acceptance/placement within the CF will depend largely on your aptitude test, make sure you are able to pass that test. Also, we spend lots of time in the classroom no mater what the trade so be prepared to take notes. You will not be allowed to be an officer without a degree but you shouldn't face anyproblems going through the ranks as an Non Commissioned Member.


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## Roy Harding (4 Feb 2007)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Well before anyone gives you a lecture on staying in school, I would just say that we all have our strengths and weaknesses and sometimes the way we learn is just not formatted to the education system. My brother never did well in school yet he is excelling in a correspondence course for his Bachelors in business. So anyone who would give you ruckus about dropping out just say hey that was my decision and it was I who made it. (you might face this stigma)
> 
> In answer to your questions: Your acceptance/placement within the CF will depend largely on your aptitude test, make sure you are able to pass that test. Also, we spend lots of time in the classroom no mater what the trade so be prepared to take notes. You will not be allowed to be an officer without a degree but you shouldn't face anyproblems going through the ranks as an Non Commissioned Member.



Regardless that I disagree with career-radio-checker's remarks regarding staying in school - he's pretty much on the money regarding employability.

I DO, however, intend to give you a "lecture on staying in school".

School is one of those things that you don't have to like - you just have to do.  

Any military career you may envisage will include things like this - you don't have to LIKE drill, but you do have to do it - you don't have to LIKE learning Regimental History, but you do have to do it - you don't have to LIKE stripping and cleaning the C7A1, but you do have to do it.  Are you seeing a pattern here, perhaps?

The fact that someone has finished school tells me something - it tells me that they possess that quality required to see a task through to its' end - despite their personal feelings.

My own history is similar to the path you envisage - I didn't finish High School, I joined the Army with a Grade 10 education.  As I grew older, and my career was starting to take off, I realized that further education was a GOOD thing.  It's not so much what you learn, it's that you learn HOW to learn.  I ended up taking a GED (a story in itself), and then acquiring a degree through "distance education" - took me ten years, but by God I did it.

If I was to do it all over again - I'd finish High School - but what the hell do I know?

You want to point at something that you've achieved?  Finish school - perhaps joining the Reserves in the meantime will both motivate you to finish what you started (voluntarily or not), and satisfy your desire to be in the Army.

Your call; good luck to you, no matter what you decide.


Roy


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## HollywoodHitman (4 Feb 2007)

FINISH SCHOOL. 

FOR GODS SAKE FINISH SCHOOL.


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## 17thRecceSgt (5 Feb 2007)

There's this guy I know...I call him Dad.

Joined way back in the 50's with a Grade 7 or 8 in PEI, Air Force.

29 years later....got out.  Was a Warrant Officer, Flight Engineer on the old Argus.  He could take apart anything in an engine, fix it.  Worked on his own cars.  Built his own house.  Cottage.  Boat house.  Fixed his Johnston outboard motor on his boat himself.

So.  After 29 years in, he releases.  Right?  Responsible for a very expensive airframe, all that stuff.

Applies for a job at the local window and door factory.

"Sorry, you don't have Grade 10.  We can't hire you."

That was 1982ish.

So, you can take that for what its worth.  When I got in the CF in 1989, I had a Grade 10 education.  Since then I have gotten my GED, 3 years of college, 17 years in the CF Reserves and I am getting in the Reg Force again, as an ATIS Tech, as a Cpl.  36 years old.

Food for thought.

MRM


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## Shamrock (5 Feb 2007)

Carmin3 said:
			
		

> blahblahblah
> 1. (Joining with minimum requirements)
> blahblahblah



1.  Honestly, the CF doesn't need any more minimum requirements soldiers.

2.  I've heard any number of reasons why someone doesn't want to finish High School, most common seems to be I hate my teachers/my teachers hate me.  Well, if you think your teachers are asses now, wait until you get a boss.

3.  Staying in school is your own decision that may or may not have a direct or tacit effect on your career progression.  I found lots of the useless stuff forced into my head useful in my day-to-day workings as a soldier and as a civy.  The decision to stay is your own, but think long and hard about it as it will affect the rest of your life.

Edit to reflect preceding posts:

I dropped out of high school to pursue a career in the CF.  While here, I have completed one post-secondary degree and am currently working on my second but assumed they'd trump my lack of high school.  About a year ago, I considered applying with the RCMP.  Without my high school diploma, I wasn't allowed to even sit the RPAT.  My post-secondary education won't grant me high school equivalencies, either.  And as I'm currently in Ontario, I can't just waltz in to write challenge exams, I'll be expected to attend adult day classes.  And the kicker, I left with a year remaining in school... and the make-up courses would take me about two years to complete.


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## George Wallace (5 Feb 2007)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> 2.  I've heard any number of reasons why someone doesn't want to finish High School, most common seems to be I hate my teachers/my teachers hate me.  Well, if you think your teachers are asses now, wait until you get a boss.



I, too, have heard any number of reasons why someone doesn't want to finish High School, most common seems to be "I hate my teachers/my teachers hate me."  Well, if you think your teachers are asses now, wait until you join the Military and you get NCO Instructors.   ;D


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## Lance Wiebe (5 Feb 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well, if you think your teachers are asses now, wait until you join the Military and you get NCO Instructors.   ;D




Wait, I don't understand your point....weren't we both instructors at different times in our careers?  I know for a fact that we weren't like that!


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## mysteriousmind (5 Feb 2007)

OK..I  might seem giving a lecture...well feel free to think of it that way.

you should stay in school...even if its piss you off....what if you discover that the military life is not for you. then what will you do? 



> 2.  I've heard any number of reasons why someone doesn't want to finish High School, most common seems to be I hate my teachers/my teachers hate me.  Well, if you think your teachers are asses now, wait until you get a boss.



Really? it happens but....don't you think that its going to be easier in the CF..what if you don't like your section leader, or your instructor. Life is full of people we don't like...but we have to live with it.

I barely finished highschool, I have 3 diplomas of technical school. 1- in computers support, 1 - hotel reception and 1 in tourist guide. I'm proud of what I did...but ...What do i do for a living? I sell computer and I'm a security agent..

I sure wish I had further my study to get a university diploma...then I would not have to work at a stupid salary when its -40°c and the wind is cold as hell..

I sure wish I had finished my math so I could go further in computer science...

remember one thing. your education will stick to you all your life.


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## medaid (5 Feb 2007)

Let me tell you this as a recruiter. STAY IN SCHOOL. Minimum qualifications need not apply. The CF is now a competetive employer. Our technology, and information is now being updated to become more comparible to our civilian counterparts.


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## Zell_Dietrich (5 Feb 2007)

I mean this with respect and fully knowing that I don't know the full details of your situation.  

Finish High school.  By only toughing it out for another 2 years - less if you do courses in summertime, you will substantially improve your situation FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. There are many trades that do have other minimum requirements than that of 'just getting in'.  

A smart alternative might be to join the reserves and finish up school.  If you join a reserve unit you'll have the full time "experience" in the summer time and then you can work part time as you finish up school.  There are more options open to you than the either or discussion I think you're seeing this as.

I don't know a single person who dropped out of highschool that doesn't consider it it their biggest regret/embarrassment.  I wish you all the best and of course you know your own situation better than I do,  however like I've said I know people without their diploma and they all regret it.


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## medaid (5 Feb 2007)

Carmin3, where about are you? If you're in Vancouver area, give me a PM and I'll gladly sit down with you and chat about the requirments and the Forces.


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## BDTyre (6 Feb 2007)

A Sgt in my regiment when I first joined asked why I wasn't going to summer BMQ, and I explained that it was my lest semester of university.  He then explained that that was a very good choice, and I should never let anything at all come before my education.  He even went so far as to state that he wishes he had known then to continue his education instead of making other choices, such as joining the army, so that later in life he would have options.  Unfortunately, the army might not be for you just yet, or even worse, three or four years from now you could be discharged for any number of reasons, good or bad, and find yourself having to get a civilian to job without a high school degree in what has become an increasingly competitve job market.  Even jobs that are traditonally considered as requiring minimal education, such as construction, plumbing, etc., etc., now require people generally to have grade 12 and some sort of apprenticeship program.

I've done nothing with my degree since leaving school, but I'm still glad I did it.


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## 35andup! (6 Feb 2007)

To further what everyone just said, stay in school!! If you so chooses when you graduate, you can then go to college or university and expand your options even further. You might be pleasantly surprised to know that a post secondary education is more interesting then you think.........The fact is while in college or university you actually choose what courses you will take, rendering your education that much more "pleasing".

Bull trough this hurdle, get your High School degree and upon completion, you will have a sense of accomplishment!!


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## safeboy43 (6 Feb 2007)

Same Here. Join the Reserves and finish High School. If you check with your local unit, they may even have a Co-Op program that you can use to gain some easy credits with. If you do this, it's an easy way to "test the water" and see if the Army is right for you. It's alot better than signing in for the Regs, only to find that you hate the lifestyle and are stuck in there for 3 years. 

Once you are done with High School and if you like the Army, you can put your CT in to the regs. If possible, pick some collage or university courses that you like and the CF will pay for them (if you are in the regs). In the reserves, I believe they will pay for some of it.

With all of this done, you will have an easy time finding a job in the Military or any other Civvie occupation. This way, you won't be pumping gas at 30 years old, making a shitty wage when you are fianlly done with the Regs.

Best of Luck!


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## tannerthehammer (6 Feb 2007)

DON'T BE A FOOL, STAY IN SCHOOL!

You can have everything in your life taken away from you EXCEPT your education!  You will always have those pieces of paper for the rest of your life.  What will happen if you get in the CF and don't like it?  I also know of a guy who went in the CF for a year and screwed up his knee and they told him well you can't do infantry anymore so you can either be a janitor for the rest of your life or we can release you and you will get nothing.  Let's just say its a good thing he had an education because he isn't a janitor.


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## HollywoodHitman (8 Feb 2007)

Carmin3 hasn't bothered coming back to answer his original post, or the thoughtful resplies and life experience generated advice. Hopefully he's burying his head in his school books and has decided to do the smart thing.

STAY IN SCHOOL.

HH


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## gnome123 (8 Feb 2007)

tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> DON'T BE A FOOL, STAY IN SCHOOL!
> 
> You can have everything in your life taken away from you EXCEPT your education!  You will always have those pieces of paper for the rest of your life.  What will happen if you get in the CF and don't like it?  I also know of a guy who went in the CF for a year and screwed up his knee and they told him well you can't do infantry anymore so you can either be a janitor for the rest of your life or we can release you and you will get nothing.  Let's just say its a good thing he had an education because he isn't a janitor.



They will just release you like that?  ???
What did he do to it?


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## tree hugger (8 Feb 2007)

It's not especially hard to get the boot after you injure yourself...speaking from experience... :-\

Fortunately I had some edgacation to fall back on.


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## Zell_Dietrich (8 Feb 2007)

gnome123 said:
			
		

> They will just release you like that?  ???
> What did he do to it?



If a person is not otherwise advantageously employable,  yes you can be released.  They likely offered him the janitor position because that was all they had that he could do. If you can no longer do the job you've been hired for,  and they can't find anything for you to do, a release is very much an option.  

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/015-02_e.asp
TABLE 2 -NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER        RELEASE ITEM                         RELEASE AUTHORITY

Item 1 -- Misconduct
     1(a) sentenced to dismissal or     Chief of Defence Staff (CDS)
          dismissal with disgrace

     1(b) Service misconduct         Director Personnel Careers Other Ranks
                                                   (DPCOR)
     1(c) illegally absent                         DPCOR

     1(d) fraudulent statement            Director Personnel Career
          on enrolment                      Administration (DPCA)

Item 2 -- Unsatisfactory Service
     2(a) unsatisfactory conduct          Director General Military
                                      Careers (DGMC) or DPCOR (see note 1)

     2(b) unsatisfactory performance                DPCOR

item 3 -- Medical
     3(a) on medical grounds, being     Base Commander/Commanding Officer
          disabled and unfit to         (BComd/CO) upon approval of medical
          perform duties as a member    category from Surgeon General
          of the Service                (Surg Gen) (see paragraph 31 of
                                        Annex A)

     3(b) on medical grounds being      DPCA upon recommendation from
          disabled and unfit to         Career Review Board (Medical)
          perform duties in present
          trade or employment, and
          not otherwise advantageously
          employable under existing
          Service policy
Item 4 -- Voluntary
     4(a) on request -- entitled to                BComd/CO
          immediate annuity

     4(b) on request -on completion               BComd/CO
          of a fixed period of
          service

     4(c) on request -- other causes    CO of recruit school, Commander
          -- during first basic         CFTSHQ or appropriate career
          engagement                    manager (see notes 3,4,5)

          on request -- other causes           BComd/CO (see note 5)
          -- after first basic
          engagement

Item 5 -- Service Completed
     5(a) retirement age                     appropriate career manager

     5(b) reduction in strength                        DGMC

     5(c) completed service required                 BComd/CO

          a force reduction plan                       DPCA

     5(d) not advantageously            DGMC, DPCOR, DPCA 5, or CO of
          employable                    recruit school as applicable
                                        (see notes 1, 4)

     5(e) irregular enrolment                          DPCA

     5(f) unsuitable for further        DGMC, DPCOR or DPCA 5 as
          service                       applicable (see note 1)

Notes -- 1.   NDHQ/DGMC is the release authority for Items 2(a), 5(d) 5(f)
releases for NCMs who are released for:

     a.   Sexual Misconduct (19-36);

     b.   Personal Harassment (19-39); and

     c.   Drug Involvement (19-21).


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## gnome123 (9 Feb 2007)

I just had thought that they would put you into physio or something...


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## tannerthehammer (9 Feb 2007)

Ya for whatever reason he couldn't get a pension out of it....Totally got screwed over big time...


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## aesop081 (9 Feb 2007)

tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> Ya for whatever reason he couldn't get a pension out of it....Totally got screwed over big time...



Since you, and the rest of us, don't know all the facts of this case, it pretty hard to give any creedibility to your statement.  If the Injury was not duty related, why would he have been screwed over ?  Do you know all the facts ?

Slow down trigger.....


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## toughenough (9 Feb 2007)

tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> I also know of a guy who went in the CF for a year and...





			
				tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> Ya for whatever reason he couldn't get a pension out of it....Totally got screwed over big time...



I wish I could dedicate 1 year to my profession and expect to get a pension out of the deal!


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## tannerthehammer (9 Feb 2007)

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> Since you, and the rest of us, don't know all the facts of this case, it pretty hard to give any creedibility to your statement.  If the Injury was not duty related, why would he have been screwed over ?  Do you know all the facts ?
> 
> Slow down trigger.....



The injury was duty related.  He was on his SQ when it happened.  He was actually working while it happened.


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## tannerthehammer (9 Feb 2007)

toughenough said:
			
		

> I wish I could dedicate 1 year to my profession and expect to get a pension out of the deal!



Ya but his knee is now screwed for life and he has no chance at a career in the CF and he got a big "too bad so sad" from the CF to go with it.  If people don't think these kinds of things happen in the CF than they are blind.  I'm not saying it happens to everyone but horror stories like this do happen.


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