# When the police need to shoot...



## muskrat89 (11 Dec 2007)

A great column by Thomas Sowell:

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell121107.php3


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## 1RNBR (12 Dec 2007)

Very good read, and so very true! Those who have never been in a situation should not speak up about how wrong it is!


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## glock17 (25 Jan 2008)

Good Article - Justified Use of Deadly Force is always a touchy subject in the eyes of the "Sheeple" in our society. The vast majority think that in every single case that a human is killed, that someone must be punished, something has to change, a new law created, another legislated control upon all of our behaviour. I don't understand how we lost the realization that there are really bad people amongst us, some with absolutely no redeeming virtues left in them at all, more like animals than human.

I mean, in evolutionary terms, we're barely out of the trees, right?

Here's something kind of wierd. If a truly intelligent species, travelled light years across the galaxy and visited us, studied us, our history, our development and so-called civilization. They would find that every single other species, we have ever come into contact with, at some point in time....we ate.

I'm betting they wouldn't drop in for lunch.

OK abstract rant over


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## Thompson_JM (29 Jan 2008)

glock17 said:
			
		

> ...They would find that every single other species, we have ever come into contact with, at some point in time....we ate.
> 
> I'm betting they wouldn't drop in for lunch...



You totally just made my Day man....

Im going to be laughing about this one for hours!  ;D


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## glock17 (30 Jan 2008)

Wish I could claim it as an original thought, I heard it somewhere and it stuck, just can't remember where, probably out of some movie.


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## Thompson_JM (30 Jan 2008)

Still good for a much needed laugh on a long day in the office.


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## Old Ranger (18 Feb 2008)

glock17 said:
			
		

> Wish I could claim it as an original thought, I heard it somewhere and it stuck, just can't remember where, probably out of some movie.



It is from a Movie...and it will drive me nuts until I can remember.


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## Yrys (18 Feb 2008)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> It is from a Movie...and it will drive me nuts until I can remember.



I've watch Artificial Intelligence yesterday,
and its ending will drive me nuts, until I can forget it...  :-[


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## Greymatters (19 Feb 2008)

To swing the thread sharply back onto the topic...

A lot of criticism is based on not only lack of knowledge, but also the self-interest groups and people who constantly seek fault with police forces.  It doesnt matter if an incident was justified, to them its an opportunity to find fault and prove themselves 'right' in being critical.


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## midgetcop (19 Feb 2008)

I don't doubt that certain interest groups take delight in hearing about a fatal police-shooting of a suspect..

..and also take delight in police "inaction" which results in civilian death/danger.

Often police will always get criticism one way or another. And the average person is not versed in police use-of-force procedures. And let's not even get on the topic of tasers....


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## Thompson_JM (21 Feb 2008)

the_midge said:
			
		

> ... And the average person is not versed in police use-of-force procedures. And let's not even get on the topic of tasers....



This Almost Got my father and I into a fistfight one day....

He started commenting from his "wide worldy use of force experiance as a Highschool Princepal" : on how the Vancouver Airport useage was clearly excessive....

I attempted to counter that point asking him about his experiance in use of force trg, and the like... it deteriorated from there... to the point where I basically ended up asking him "ok. so you feel you're qualified to judge what is excessive based on a 15 second sound bite on CBC.... by that statement Police are now Qualified to tell you how to teach and run a school based on reading a pamphlet on education...." since essentially both sides present nowhere near enough information to make a sound, informed opinion....   Of course he cant possibly be  wrong... since the CBC would never present an unbiased story....  :

Thankfully we sorted it out... We simply stopped talking about it anymore..... 

one more reason why Obtuse Liberals P*** me off..... No matter how clearly you beat them at an arguement or debate they simply stick to the Head up their @** opinion of "well i just dont like that so therefore its wrong...."  Whatever happened to the concept of education opening minds???

Rant off....


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## OldSolduer (21 Feb 2008)

Minds are like parachutes,,,,,they must be open to work.


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## midgetcop (22 Feb 2008)

The media should definitely take part of the blame. Toronto-area newspapers often have headlines akin to 'SIU to investigate police shooting of suspect at so-and-so-location'. Not to say that headline isn't true - the Special Investigations Unit will always investigate incidents where people are killed/severely injured in police dealings, but the headline seems to imply that police must have done something wrong and therefore need to be investigated. At least that's what I get out of it. 

Although I do believe that there should be checks and balances for law enforcement - it must be a frustratingly difficult job. To have every decision endlessly scrutinized/criticized by your superiors/press/public.....One of my co-workers had been a cop for over 20 years, and he told me that that aspect of the job just wears you down.


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## daftandbarmy (22 Feb 2008)

An example of how difficult good combat handgunning can be. I wonder what happened to the beer?

My Attempted Armed Robbery...
SHOTS FIRED!
by USCCA Member "9mmShooter"Note from Tim: One of our very own members posted this AMAZING and gut-wrenching story of an incident that involved him drawing his weapon and firing in self defense... just WAIT until you read this!

.....
It was 8 PM on Sunday night, Jan 20th that my life was forever changed in an instant. I had planned on meeting some friends at his apartment complex and walking across the street to a popular sports restaurant to watch some football and relax as we all had Monday off for Martin Luther King's day.

I had stopped at a local 7-eleven store and picked up a 12 pack of beer and 4 tall cans to keep the refrigerator stocked and had no issues at the 7-eleven store. I parked my vehicle in my friends apartment parking lot, (which are nice luxury apartments), got out of my vehicle and had the 12 pack of bottles in my right hand, I used my remote to lock my vehicle, then transferred the plastic bag with the 4 tall cans to my right hand also, Leaving my LEFT (shooting) hand free. I was walking toward the sidewalk, when I was approached by a black male, face covered with bandana, gun drawn and pointed at my stomach on my left side, approx 2-3 feet from me. When I noticed him, he said "this is a hold-up, give me your wallet", and I replied, "Let me get is for you" and time Slloooweed way down for me.

My first mental reaction was I was an Idiot for allowing and armed BG to get this close to me and I didn't notice him, and take him out at 20-30 feet. But, I had just returned from the range that day, breaking in a new Colt Defender .45, but I decided to carry my Springfield Armory EMP 9mm with hydra-shock hollow points. Mentally I was rehearsing just how fast I could draw my gun (which I carry in a Galco FBI cant snap-on belt holster), get the thumb safety off, and get my right hand free to get a good sight picture and neutralize this BG. As I reached for what normally would be a wallet, I went for my gun (on my left side), when the BG saw stainless steel coming instead of a wallet, he ran approx 20 feet, stopped, turned, aimed and fired 2 shots at me. It is a surreal feeling "knowing" you are going to be shot at, when he fired I had my gun in my left hand, safety off, and was waiting to get my right hand on the gun to fire. ( I have since practiced shooting one handed, and the "zipper" technique) I immediately returned fire with 5 rounds, and it did appear my last shot hit him, but he ran across the apartment complex zig-zagging, and I was attempting to get 2 more shots, but I never took them because one shot he was by floor level patio with glass doors, and the next one he was heading into another open parking lot full of parked vehicles. I don't remember hearing any shots fired, what I do remember is the flash of his muzzle blast 2 times, and one more time as he was running across the apartment grounds for a total of 3 shots fired at me.

I do remember my CHL training kicking in, and I dialed 911 and described who I was, and what had just happened and shots were fired. The 911 dispatcher stayed on the phone with me until the officers arrived, and the police were very professional. The first officer on scene exited his car, not with his gun drawn but his first statement was are you, "Mr ..........", and I said yes, he asked where my gun was, which I had been told by the 911 dispatcher to put on the ground, and he secured my gun, then asked if I was hit, and what the BG looked like. The follow-up is the BG is a leading suspect in multiple armed robberies, and they have a BG suspect with a bullet "graze" wound problem, but so far he has not been arrested. So, I am still carrying and on full combat alert.

I present my story to this group, as proof that you Never know when you will be attacked, and you must Always be ready. I am still mad at myself for allowing an armed BG to get that close to me, and of course, that I missed him, and he was able to run away. The detectives did tell me that leading up to my attempted robbery, for 13 nights in a row, there had been an armed robbery of some sort across town, but after my incident there wasn't any armed robberies for a good 10 days or so. I welcome any comments and suggestions.


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