# Decompression in Cyprus - various aspects, updates (merged)



## The Bread Guy (15 May 2008)

The latest from Dr. Anne Irwin - highlights mine...

*Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan Face Difficulties Transitioning From Combatant to Combat Veteran States the Findings of New Report*
CDFAI news release, 15 May 08
News release - report (.pdf) - alternate report download site (.pdf)

CALGARY, ALBERTA--(Marketwire - May 15, 2008) - The Canadian Defence & Foreign Affairs Institute released a report today, Redeployment as a Rite of Passage written by Dr. Anne Irwin.

Anne Irwin is Assistant Professor of Anthropology and the CDFAI Chair in Civil-Military Relations at the University of Calgary. She served in the Canadian Forces Reserve for fifteen years, retiring as a Military Police officer with the rank of Major.

Dr. Irwin spent three months in 2006 embedded with the soldiers of Charlie Company of the First Battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. This paper is written from an anthropological perspective and examines the rite of passage these soldiers embarked on that took them from active combatant status to combat veteran status. It also examines the flaws in the redeployment process that hinder the reintegration of combat soldiers into Canadian society.

*Irwin notes that there are three distinct phases of redeployment but that the major weakness in the entire process occurs in the first:* "Because of the way the relief in place was organized, sections were split up, with some members of the section leaving Afghanistan while others continued to conduct patrolling and other operations. *The resulting disruption of unit and sub-unit integrity created a great deal of additional stress and discontent. This was the most significant negative factor related to the redeployment."*

The second phase, or decompression phase, in which soldiers spend time in Cyprus, has significantly improved the transition process for soldiers returning to Canada but Irwin argues that there are still serious flaws in the system: *"There was a surprising lack of recognition on the part of the decompression tour organizers of the importance of the primary group in supporting the returning soldiers' transition from combat to home. Despite the rhetoric in the briefings which spoke of the importance of buddies and the primary group bond, in practice, this bond was not only not recognized, but ruptured by the redeployment process."*

Irwin concludes with three suggestions on how to improve the decompression phase so that soldiers are more easily able to make the transition from soldier to veteran: *maintaining unit and sub-unit integrity; assigning unit members to the same hotel or to hotels that are close together; and improving the critical incident debriefing sessions.*

The complete report, Redeployment as a Rite of Passage, is available online at www.cdfai.org.

CDFAI is a "think tank" pursuing authoritative research and new ideas aimed at ensuring Canada has a respected and influential voice in the international arena.

For more information, please contact
Canadian Defence & Foreign Affairs Institute
Kate McAuley
Program Coordinator
(403) 231-7624
Email: kmcauley@cdfai.org
Website: www.cdfai.org


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## geo (15 May 2008)

The Section, upon which the army is built around.... broken up when you need it the most.... and it took a civy to notice.

Now it the brass hats on the Rideau are listening.....


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## Greymatters (16 May 2008)

Why exactly are they breaking up sections in the first place?


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## Rodahn (16 May 2008)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Why exactly are they breaking up sections in the first place?



But this has been going on for how many years? At least 30+ by my count, as your posting individuals between units rather than whole sections... The answer is? I personally have no idea...Needs of the service etc.... We are but pawns in the over all scope of the grand picture....


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## the 48th regulator (16 May 2008)

Rodahn said:
			
		

> But this has been going on for how many years? At least 30+ by my count, as your posting individuals between units rather than whole sections... The answer is? I personally have no idea...Needs of the service etc.... We are but pawns in the over all scope of the grand picture....



Agreed,

However this works back in battallion at home.

Doing this transition so close to the time the unit integrity is most tested, by all rights is completely wrong.

It would be like trading half of the team during the playoffs....

dileas

tess


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## daftandbarmy (16 May 2008)

I'm guessing that the problem relates to the need to maintain a presence on the ground during the handover phase while simultaneously trying to get troops home as soon as possible. This doesn't have to mean the breakup of sections and platoons as long as the Ops network has their act together.


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## The Bread Guy (16 May 2008)

Did a quick skim of the report, and the "needlessly bureaucratic" alarm went off when I read how troops are assigned accomodations in a number of different (and not necessarily co-located) hotels:  

Alphabetically, by name

not by sub-unit grouping

Translation:  section/platoon/company buddies/colleagues who would benefit from hanging together after the fight have a (pretty well) random chance of ending up at the same hotel, or even near another one with said buddies-colleagues.

Nice.......


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## Gunner98 (16 May 2008)

It would take a different mind set and resources to deploy and return home as a section (the U.S. does it as a TF).  Likewise, this would facilitate going on HLTA and decompression as a section?   We have not had the plans nor the aircraft to completely revamp the process.


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## Journeyman (17 May 2008)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> "Because of the way the relief in place was organized, sections were split up, with some members of the section leaving Afghanistan while others continued to conduct patrolling and other operations. *The resulting disruption of unit and sub-unit integrity created a great deal of additional stress and discontent. This was the most significant negative factor related to the redeployment."*


OK, I'm usually the last one to argue on behalf of the system, however.....

She's writing from an anthropologist's perspective (hence the cute "Gorillas in the Mist" linkage), notwithstanding the mention of 15 years she spent as a Reserve MP to bolster her military credibility. Anthropologists study human interactions, not tactical soundness. The RIP is designed to ensure the incoming unit is operationally as ready as it can be, including the subtle nuances of the area and small 'tricks of the trade' the soldiers have picked up. No matter how many powerpoint briefings the leadership gets, many small life-saving details are passed on soldier-to-soldier. For that to happen, you need to have the incoming and outgoing integrated. 

Yes, it sucks that section integrity is broken up in-theatre; it sucks even more if a roto starts off with a whole bunch of ramp ceremonies because Bloggins didn't know something about the neighbourhood and the bad guys' tactics because _military_ leadership got trumped by the flinch following an _academic_ report.

This is being written during my decompression, by the way. The rest of my "primary support group" (damn, where's the tac symbol for _that_?) left two weeks ago. Even after almost 10 months in-theatre, I don't bemoan the extra time if it allows the passage of that one additional bit of info that will keep troops alive while killing bad guys.


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## GregC (17 May 2008)

I'm going to add a little something based on my experiences with decompression.

Nothing in this report applied to my decompression from 1-07. The entire platoon I was a member of deployed out of theatre together and cycled through Cyprus in the same hotel as a unit. We chose our buddies we wanted to split a hotel room with, and did whatever activities we wanted with anyone we wanted. Our company was roughly split in half to go through the process, but the most important unit (the section) was never split up. As far as I know, neither was the platoon (however perhaps this was simply my experience?).

The only complaint we had was that our PL medics did not cycle through with us as they wished, instead they redeployed within a medical group made up largely of medics who never left the wire.

Hope I've added something useful that other recently deployed can build on.


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## TheHead (19 May 2008)

GregC said:
			
		

> I'm going to add a little something based on my experiences with decompression.
> 
> Nothing in this report applied to my decompression from 1-07. The entire platoon I was a member of deployed out of theatre together and cycled through Cyprus in the same hotel as a unit. We chose our buddies we wanted to split a hotel room with, and did whatever activities we wanted with anyone we wanted. Our company was roughly split in half to go through the process, but the most important unit (the section) was never split up. As far as I know, neither was the platoon (however perhaps this was simply my experience?).
> 
> ...



 When I came home on 1-06, my crew and the rest of the crews had to stay behind, sitting around on our *** for around a week.  We came home with the medics and every other trade on the last chalk.  The problem a few of us were talking about was relating to the other trades who really never left the wire during our briefings.  I didn't really feel like talking about combat while the guy next to me talked about missing his wife.  Please don't take this as a sacrosanct attitude but I just couldn't relate to that guy or anyone like him who hadn't experienced the same crap I did.  

Corrected myself, I screwed some numbers up. Sorry guys.


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## PPCLI Guy (19 May 2008)

GregC said:
			
		

> I'm going to add a little something based on my experiences with decompression.
> 
> Nothing in this report applied to my decompression from 1-07.
> 
> Hope I've added something useful that other recently deployed can build on.



What you have added is that we, as an institution, are actually learning.  Many lessons (cas mgmt, death notification, honours and awards, integration of enablers, use of PPE, validity of the echelon concept etc etc) were learned off of the backs of TF 1-06 - and that is to be expected, as we returned as an Army to the business of war.


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## Gun Shy (20 Sep 2008)

Canadian soldier arrested in Cyprus
Canwest News Service
Published: Saturday, September 20, 2008
PAPHOS, Cyprus -- A 25-year-old Canadian soldier has been arrested in the Mediterranean country of Cyprus after allegedly threatening a taxi cab driver with a knife, Cypriot police said Saturday. 

The male soldier, whose name has not been released, was arrested around 12:20 a.m. Saturday in the resort town of Paphos, located on the southwestern coast of the island.

He is currently under the custody of the Cypriot police at the Paphos division. 

It is not clear if a court date has been scheduled, police said. 

Media reports say the soldier recently completed a tour of duty in Afghanistan and was taking a rest stop in Cyprus before returning to Canada. 

Canadian soldiers finishing off their tours of duty usually attend a decompression program - lasting a few days - before going home. 

Since last year, more than 2,200 Canadian soldiers have gone through Cyprus for the program.

A Canadian Forces spokesman was not immediately available for comment Saturday.


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## GAP (20 Sep 2008)

Already posted...here

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79940.0.html


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## The Bread Guy (7 Aug 2009)

So, what's the solution, Battalion NCO i/c Savings?   :  If one is going to critique the decompression program, there's got to be better places to start the discussion than this, no?

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._

*R and R spells financial ruin for Canadian troops*
Bruce Campion-Smith, Toronto Star, 7 Aug 09
Article link

They can defuse roadside bombs and take out Taliban fighters but young Canadian soldiers can't seem to hang on to the big bonuses they earn risking their lives in Afghanistan.

Many are blowing their hard-earned danger pay as soon as they get off the battlefield, hitting the bars and partying at five-star resorts on the Mediterranean island of Cyprus, where the military is offering them counselling and "decompression."

Before returning to Canada, soldiers are sent to a plush seaside hotel and spa in the western city of Paphos for five days of rest and relaxation intended to help them adjust back to civilian life.

But military documents obtained by the Star suggest the defence department's preferred method of treating the mental toll of war is taking a personal financial toll on the troops.

"Many of the young soldiers coming out of the theatre with large amounts of money were losing it within short periods of time, usually at TLDs (Third-Location Decompressions)," notes the report, written after some 2,800 soldiers shuttled through Cyprus this spring following their deployment to Kandahar.

The 2007 federal budget put aside $60 million each year to increase to $285 per month the danger pay that members of the army receive, meaning a soldier serving on a six-month tour would earn about $1,700 in addition to their base salary.

Military officials who run the program in Cyprus have recommended soldiers begin receiving briefings before deploying to Kandahar on how to better manage the extra money they're paid while at war. Lessons on responsible financial skills should be delivered again as soon as those soldiers leave Afghanistan, says the report, which was released through the Access to Information Act.

But the bigger problem is that "abuse of alcohol" appears to be the primary activity of soldiers, according to the military report.

The problem reached such a state when the last contingent of Canadians stopped off in Cyprus this spring that military officials have recommended slapping a two-drink limit on soldiers for the first night of their decompression to "facilitate learning" in a Day 2 course on transitioning from life at war to life at home....

_More on link_


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## PMedMoe (7 Aug 2009)

If I had to sit through _another_ boring briefing, I'd need a lot more than decompression and a two-drink limit.   :  Thankfully, I didn't do "decompression" after my tour.  We did all the briefings before we left KAF and then had a three day R & R.   8)

These soldiers are *adults*, albeit, some may be pretty stupid foolhardy when it comes to their finances.  I have no doubt some of them need help but they would need it _regardless_ of the fact that they went on tour.  Just imagine what some are using their LDA for.

I don't even think this story is about the soldiers' spending habits but more to point out that decompression is occurring at a "plush" sea side hotel and soldiers are partying at "five-star" resorts.  Not to mention the increase in danger pay.   :


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## George Wallace (7 Aug 2009)

So?  What is new here?  Canadian Soldiers have always acted this way.  Most are fairly frugal with their earnings, but some, especially the young single members have always found ways to spend their money.  Part of our informal Inclearances to the unit in Petawawa was a briefing from other long-time residents as to which local merchants not to deal with.  Petawawa and Pembroke Car Dealerships were notorious for offering the young single soldier, returning from Tour, great deals on expensive cars by paying their first month of insurance for them.  After that month was up, the parking spaces behind the shacks were full of cars that the young soldiers couldn't afford to insure and drive.

Does the MSM have any better suggestions as to what could be done?  Perhaps this is an agenda brought to light by Canadian merchants who would prefer to have first crack at the CF members’ wallets and slyly published in the Press.


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Aug 2009)

I had a great time in Cyprus, I found the briefings we sat through to be very useful.  As for people spending that money, has this newspaper not gone to downtown XXXXX (the nearest town to any military base) on a weekend??  That would be happening whether or not we were in Cyprus, or any other decompression location.

As George said, and what concerns me the most is to see the younger soldiers come off tour with all that cash and think that the best "investment" is with a new car.  Heck, my driver bought a new car BEFORE we went on tour!! I tried to explain to him how silly it was but could not get through to him.

I think the military should be doing more to explain basic financial information to our soldiers.  Low interest rate credit cards, RRSP investments, house vs. car for first purchase, rent to own schemes, interest rates in general, etc... I believe that would go alot to helping them make wise decisions during their careers.

Had I bought a cheap house when I got posted to Gagetown in 97 (instead of a nice new $500 a month truck) I would have surely turned a profit on it and have had it about 75% paid off when i was posted out in 07, DOH!!

Again, media grabbing for what they can.. we know that there are tons of people all over our country making the same mistakes (university students and loans anyone?).  Media, please stop picking on us!!


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## helpup (7 Aug 2009)

I hate those briefs as well.  I will give the article a point on troops spend their money in ways that suggest, " Hey I am young and stupid".  Not all mind you but enough.  

I dont agree with using a 5 star resort to decompress.  There has been problems using such an open venue.  The old idea of renting Apt blocks use to work as it was more of a controled area to unwind in and keep a lid on anything going to extremes. 

Personally despite the "experts" they bring in for the briefs I am a fan of doing as much as you can with in your Pl to facilitate the return to normal land. Unfortunately there is not much range and scope with the rotation schedual and handovers to get it done properly.  Then dealing with the differances in Post Deployment leave dates, Postings, Re-orgs.  It is hard to allow a group dynamic to help with the decompression.
I give out my phone number like candy and try to keep tabs on the troops but it doesnt help if they dont come forward.

The money aspect.  Even with out tours troops will do stupid things with thier money. Drink (Gosh) and the like.  They are young (and the not so young) We try to have a talk with the Pl's every other year or so about money, bugeting and the like.  Sort of like Life skills part duex


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## PMedMoe (7 Aug 2009)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I think the military should be doing more to explain basic financial information to our soldiers.  Low interest rate credit cards, RRSP investments, house vs. car for first purchase, rent to own schemes, interest rates in general, etc... I believe that would go alot to helping them make wise decisions during their careers.



I _tend_ to agree with you, however, the means are available for the soldier to get this kind of information, e.g. SISIP advisors, financial counsellors, etc.  What other job sits you down and explains all that?


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## The Bread Guy (7 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> These soldiers are *adults*, albeit, some may be pretty stupid foolhardy when it comes to their finances.  I have no doubt some of them need help but they would need it _regardless_ of the fact that they went on tour.





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Canadian Soldiers have always acted this way.  Most are fairly frugal with their earnings, but some, especially the young single members have always found ways to spend their money.





			
				Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> As for people spending that money, has this newspaper not gone to downtown XXXXX (the nearest town to any military base) on a weekend??



ZACKLY!!!!!!!!!!!



			
				Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> we know that there are tons of people all over our country making the same mistakes (university students and loans anyone?).



Good point - where was the Star to monitor how some university students spent their (then) OSAP grants on stereos and the like?


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## George Wallace (7 Aug 2009)

I'd also like to point out that what passes as a Five Star hotel in some places, may only be a Three Star here in North America.  One really does not want to stay in many of the Three Star hotels in Europe, and perhaps not some of the Four Stars, as some of them are no better than dumps or Youth Hostels.  The "Rating System" is not universal.


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Aug 2009)

There is no real point to any of this. It's the Toronto Star. Pseudo journalism masquerading as a legitmate newspaper. :


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## GAP (7 Aug 2009)

I guess they didn't do this on VE day, or any other rotation whether it's American/Canadian/Australian/etc.....

Came home on my 30 day leave after 13 Months in Viet Nam (I had extended for another 6 months so they gave me the leave, part of the deal).....I stayed pretty much drunk from the time my bud met me at the airport with 2 bottles of Old Crow, to the time I landed back in Quang Tri....a total of 45 days....at the end I was stone cold broke.....but hey....what a trip!!!

and am no worse the wear for it.....hic!


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## Rifleman62 (7 Aug 2009)

I have modified a previous post about another Toronto Star article to read:

Just a cheap shot by the Toronto Star at the service men and woman. Now that would be a headline/story:

                                                   *Big newspaper feints interest in soldiers
                                      Story was ruse to sell newspapers and embarrass government*

Typical Canadian "journalism" = sensationalism. Repeaters writing anything so they can be printed.

Read the comments to the article. It appears to have backfired. Thoes who commented clearly support the troops.

Additionally, did the repeater visit the location and observe what was going on, or write it from their desk in Toronto??


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## The Bread Guy (7 Aug 2009)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Additionally, did the repeater reporter visit the location and observe what was going on, or write it from their desk in Toronto??



This from the article suggests the latter (from his desk in Ottawa)....


> But military documents obtained by the Star suggest the defence department's preferred method of treating the mental toll of war is taking a personal financial toll on the troops .... the report, which was released through the Access to Information Act ....


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Aug 2009)

I worked at a downtown hotel briefly as a security guard back in the 80’s. Large numbers of Miners and Loggers came down to party there after getting paid big bucks, within 5 days most had to go back to the bush as they were broke, in debt and in trouble with the cops. 

Personally I wouldn’t line a birdcage with the Toronto Star.


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## Roy Harding (7 Aug 2009)

In the '70s I worked as unskilled labour in oil camps in northern Alberta.  I was surrounded by young guys stuck in the bush for weeks on end, making obscene amounts of money.  When we hit town (whatever town that may have been - MacMurray, Edmonton, Calgary, whatever) - most of us quickly went about divesting ourselves of our new-found wealth.  When we regained consciousness - we'd lick our wounds, shake our heads, swear to never do it again - and head back to camp to earn some more obscene wages.  And the cycle continued.

The problem (if it's a problem) is not a "soldier" problem.  It's a "young man" problem, no matter the young man's occupation, and it's been going on for all of recorded history.

Most (but not all) of the young men eventually mature, become more responsible, and take their turn shaking their heads at the young men coming up behind them.

It's a "non-story" - so naturally the Star ran it.


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## dapaterson (7 Aug 2009)

1992. Gagetown.  Thursday night.  Two young OCdts from the Rock were due to fly to Chilliwack on Sunday.  Having taken them to the pay office to get two weeks pay in cash, the Sgt looking after them reminded them that they were to stay on base until their flight out (via Toronto to Vancouver).  And not to call Air Canada (at the number he provided) and make changes to their full-fare reservations and leave early, even though no one would be looking in on them again.

Flash forward to Chilliwack, Sunday, early evening.  A stretch limo pulls up to the shacks on base and our two young OCdts stagger out, scrounge the last few dollars they need to pay the fare from Vancouver airport from friends, and begin regaling one and all with their tales of a weekend in Toronto.


"There is nothing new under the sun"


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## Jarnhamar (7 Aug 2009)

Stupid article.



			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> military officials have recommended slapping a two-drink limit on soldiers for the first night of their decompression to "facilitate learning" in a Day 2 course on transitioning from life at war to life at home....


Not a bad idea. First two days are dry, last three go to town.


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## helpup (7 Aug 2009)

Ah the mental images of soldiers getting drinks pool side and regalling all ( civi and military) with head rolling blaaaah's quick dip in the water for a pause head shiver and back to the edge for more booze.  The odd guy gets into trouble most just get sloshed.
Personally keeping my head out of said pool side water was importent to me.


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## Shec (7 Aug 2009)

I suppose soldiers spending their back-pay buying subscriptions to the Toronto Star would be a much less controversial story.  Who is making an issue of this anyway, the paper's marketing and circulation department?


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## Bird_Gunner45 (7 Aug 2009)

This is the most informative news story I've seen since I watched an expose on university going to Mexico on spring break, and get this, drinking..... ALCOHOL! Ignatieff must not have said anything that day, so the newspaper was bare.


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## dapaterson (7 Aug 2009)

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> Ignatieff must not have said anything that day, so the newspaper was bare.



And Jack Layton must have been equally silent - and that, in and of itself, is newsworthy.


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## FormerHorseGuard (11 Aug 2009)

This sort of thing has been going on for years. You  seen in the movies of world war 2 action, the high stakes poker games, the crap games etc, it is not news it is a fact of life.

As for Petawawa and the local car dealers, i was a pay  clerk there on the Plains for a summer tasking. I remember a lot of statement of earnings being done up for the troops to swing car loans. Mostly  young guys who had a  huge a pay cheque every  15 days for the summer then off to class A pay  for the rest of the year. One guy who was in the shacks with me wanted a brand  new 1990 chevy  monte carlo  ss ( i hope I have the model right) and he came to the payoffice  and got his statement of earnings for the car dealer to help him get  a loan. He came back to the shacks with his car the next night,  he said the car dealer lied to the loan person saying his uncle was giving him more cash for a downpayment. The car dealers loved the summer when an extra 2000 militia troops came to town. They knew they  would make sales and repo the car later and sell it again to another soldier .
This has been going for since the first soldier left home and got paid.  Slow news day create a story about the troops having fun.


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## Gunner98 (11 Aug 2009)

"The 2007 federal budget put aside $60 million each year to increase to $285 per month the danger pay that members of the army receive, meaning a soldier serving on a six-month tour would earn about $1,700 in addition to their base salary."

Who is this guy kidding - $1,700 in addition to their base salary- I think he missed a zero once you add in the tax-free satus.  If a soldier were to spend all of his hazard pay and FSP during his decompression, he would be dead from food and drink. The soldier returning from KAF today is unlikely to have his car repossessed because he pays cash for it.


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## brihard (11 Aug 2009)

I think he means $1700/month, which if I recall would be pretty accurate. Poorly written, of course.


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## Redeye (12 Aug 2009)

I read this article yesterday about car dealers exploiting military personnel in the US:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/07/i-love-mark-uniform

The predatory practices these folks are using on some of these people are unbelievable.  I will never forget coming out of the gym in Petawawa one day and watching an RCD trooper who looked to be about 20 hopping into a shiny new Cadillac sedan (I can't remember what their models are called) and wondering how he could possibly afford anything beyond the car payments and insurance for it.





			
				FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> This sort of thing has been going on for years. You  seen in the movies of world war 2 action, the high stakes poker games, the crap games etc, it is not news it is a fact of life.
> 
> As for Petawawa and the local car dealers, i was a pay  clerk there on the Plains for a summer tasking. I remember a lot of statement of earnings being done up for the troops to swing car loans. Mostly  young guys who had a  huge a pay cheque every  15 days for the summer then off to class A pay  for the rest of the year. One guy who was in the shacks with me wanted a brand  new 1990 chevy  monte carlo  ss ( i hope I have the model right) and he came to the payoffice  and got his statement of earnings for the car dealer to help him get  a loan. He came back to the shacks with his car the next night,  he said the car dealer lied to the loan person saying his uncle was giving him more cash for a downpayment. The car dealers loved the summer when an extra 2000 militia troops came to town. They knew they  would make sales and repo the car later and sell it again to another soldier .
> This has been going for since the first soldier left home and got paid.  Slow news day create a story about the troops having fun.


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## PMedMoe (12 Aug 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> I read this article yesterday about car dealers exploiting military personnel in the US:
> 
> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/07/i-love-mark-uniform
> 
> The predatory practices these folks are using on some of these people are unbelievable.  I will never forget coming out of the gym in Petawawa one day and watching an RCD trooper who looked to be about 20 hopping into a shiny new Cadillac sedan (I can't remember what their models are called) and wondering how he could possibly afford anything beyond the car payments and insurance for it.



While I agree that the car salesmen _may_ be approving young soldiers for loans they cannot really afford, the young sailor in the article at your link must have been _extremely_ naive. To get in a car with a stranger, to test drive a car you don't want, to give personal info to a car dealer and then to actually sign papers?  Sorry, even at 19, I knew better than that.

Besides, it's not just car dealers.  There are other places that probably prey on these young service men/women as well.


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## dapaterson (12 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Besides, it's not just car dealers.  There are other places that probably prey on these young service men/women as well.



How to make a VanDoo (or any male ever posted to Valcartier) blush:

"Remember that time at "_L'Entre Nous_?"


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## ruckmarch (12 Aug 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I'd also like to point out that what passes as a Five Star hotel in some places, may only be a Three Star here in North America.  One really does not want to stay in many of the Three Star hotels in Europe, and perhaps not some of the Four Stars, as some of them are no better than dumps or Youth Hostels.  The "Rating System" is not universal.



I hear ya......but it's Europe, history and culture, beautiful weather, beaches, good food and the women are usually a lot better looking and shaped  ;D


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## COBRA-6 (12 Aug 2009)

Further to what George said, I would say the decompression resort in Paphos is equivalent to a 3 or 3.5 star Caribbean resort most Canadians would be familiar with from all-inclusive vacation packages. Very nice for sure but we're not talking the Shangri-La here.

Insinuating that taxpayers are paying for soldiers to lounge at the height of luxury is misleading...


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## karl28 (12 Aug 2009)

I am kind of shocked I thought that the only reason to get the Toronto Star was to look at he Sunshine girl . I would of never have guessed that people actually read the paper .     ;D
         But on a more serious note I don't know why the paper focused on just young military guys .  I know allot of young people that did not belong to the military that spent good money on foolish ways to entertain them selves instead of saving including myself .


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## George Wallace (12 Aug 2009)

karl28 said:
			
		

> I am kind of shocked I thought that the only reason to get the Toronto Star was to look at he Sunshine girl . I would of never have guessed that people actually read the paper .     ;D



That would be the SUN.     :nod:


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## karl28 (12 Aug 2009)

George Wallace

         You mean there is more than one news paper in Toronto WOW my bad .


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## George Wallace (12 Aug 2009)

karl28 said:
			
		

> George Wallace
> 
> You mean there is more than one news paper in Toronto WOW my bad .



As far as I know, there is NO SUNSHINE GIRL in The Toronto Star.  If there were, perhaps I would look at its pages as well.


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2009)

The Sunshine Girl was banished from page three to inside the sports section years ago.


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## George Wallace (12 Aug 2009)

Still.  The SUNshine girl isn't in the Star. 

I think more people read the SUN chain of papers than the Toronto Star, and it isn't just for the Sunshine Girl.  The SUN is not as biased in its reporting and editorializing as the Star.  It also fits into litter boxes better, but that is another story, and we are wandering off topic.........Although, it was a "No News Day" that initiated this topic in the Star.   ;D


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## Farawaylineman57 (12 Aug 2009)

Ah! the good old days have left us high and dry.  When a newspaper only has to look for so called "dirt" on facts that they cannot even get straight is time to hang up their Laptops.  Half the battles in WW2 in Italy where won by Wine Drinking soldiers who moved forward to more vineyards.  This stayed with us until the late 80's early 90's.  When I was a young RCR 1977, I always can remember the CO getting his daily case of 24 KEO bear in Cyprus.  Every 2nd night we where down town coming home dressed as a Brit/FIN or who ever wanted to exchange dress uniforms drunker than a skunk, but ready to go in the AM.  When I got back from Afghanistan it took 3 drinks tipsy and I was ready to go for a few more and I woke up in the AM with 10 minutes to spare before I had to give roll call.  And yes I do not read the Toronto Star just another news agency looking for bad stuff to push their paper.  Have good one


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## the 48th regulator (12 Aug 2009)

Actually,

The Star has the Moonshine girls, and they are located somewhere in the business section, or classifieds.....






Today's Gal


dileas

tess


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## Farawaylineman57 (12 Aug 2009)

Those moonshine girls look like something from Cyprus in the 70"S


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Still.  The SUNshine girl isn't in the Star.
> I think more people read the SUN chain of papers than the Toronto Star, and it isn't just for the Sunshine Girl.  The SUN is not as biased in its reporting and editorializing as the Star.  It also fits into litter boxes better, but that is another story, and we are wandering off topic.........Although, it was a "No News Day" that initiated this topic in the Star.   ;D



I think the Sun pushed the good taste envelope a little bit too far when they published the Andy Donato cartoon comparing the mayor to Hitler.

http://img527.imageshack.us/i/mayor.pdf/
Globe and Mail / Sat 24 July 2004 / page: A9


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## PanaEng (12 Aug 2009)

That sounds very familiar. I was in CFOCS in 92 and out of our room window we see this limo pull up...
cheers,
Frank


			
				dapaterson said:
			
		

> 1992. Gagetown.  Thursday night.  Two young OCdts from the Rock were due to fly to Chilliwack on Sunday.  Having taken them to the pay office to get two weeks pay in cash, the Sgt looking after them reminded them that they were to stay on base until their flight out (via Toronto to Vancouver).  And not to call Air Canada (at the number he provided) and make changes to their full-fare reservations and leave early, even though no one would be looking in on them again.
> 
> Flash forward to Chilliwack, Sunday, early evening.  A stretch limo pulls up to the shacks on base and our two young OCdts stagger out, scrounge the last few dollars they need to pay the fare from Vancouver airport from friends, and begin regaling one and all with their tales of a weekend in Toronto.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (12 Aug 2009)

And the young Canadian soldier would be different from any other young person with a fist full of cash how????!!!???   :

They have just made it through a FREAKIN' war, if he wants to spend all his money on bubble gum, booze or Timbits....who cares?  Not me.

Gimmee a break, must of been a slow news day.


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## The Bread Guy (22 Aug 2009)

_Mods - feel free to merge if/as you see fit..._

Now that we've seen the criticisms and imperfections of decompression in Cyprus:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79949.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88264.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/76446.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/71586.0.html

the Cypriot media has an update - highlights mine - shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._

*‘Decompressed’ Canadian soldiers leave Paphos*
Patrick Dewhurst, Cyprus Mail, 22 Aug 09
Article link

THE LAST of the Canadian troops, who were holidaying in Cyprus after tours in Afghanistan, have returned home.

Since spring this year, over 6000 Canadian peacekeepers have stayed in downtown Paphos, after operations as part of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). 

The scheme was the product of collaboration between Canadian top brass and the Paphos municipality, and was designed to help soldiers unwind and adjust to normal life after the stress of frontline fighting.

These “Decompression” periods, which are typically between 24 and 48 hours, have already proved successful among British soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, so much so that it is now standard practice. 

*Earlier this year, Commander Christophe Prazuck, a spokesman for the French Defence Staff announced that French forces were looking to follow suit. He said: “The idea is not to celebrate for three days; other nations believe that in the long term it works.” The French media had speculated Cyprus was earmarked for the project. *

The visiting soldiers will no doubt have provided a welcome boost to the ailing tourist industry this year. 1,600 soldiers visited the island, with some staying for four weeks to enjoy the good food, weather and nightlife. In addition many of the Canadian soldiers visited cultural events. Savvas Vergas, Mayor Paphos said “We had a few officers visit our tourist offices to learn about cultural events. Many soldiers came and enjoyed them a lot”

However, the presence of soldiers has not been without its problems, and a number of violent incidents involving foreign troops have occurred. 

*In March 2008 two Canadian soldiers, who were staying in Paphos for decompression, were charged with assaulting a British resident. A month earlier, nine British soldiers en route home Iraq were charged in connection with a bar brawl.*

Asked about these problems, *Vergas commented that “yes there were some problems in the last year, but these were very few. I was very happy with having the soldiers on the island, and I would welcome people from all countries to come, relax and enjoy Paphos”.*

Asked if this is likely to become a regular feature of tourism, Vergas said “I hope so. *We will learn in the coming days whether the Canadians will be returning in October. If they do, we hope to receive between 600 and 700 soldiers.” *


_- edited to add mod msg -_


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## Jammer (22 Aug 2009)

It's welcome to the Cypriot point of view. They benefit as well.
Happy soldiers tend to tip better than fat German tourists... ;D


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## Greymatters (22 Aug 2009)

If over 6,000 have been there and only 2 Canadian soldiers are reported to have gotten in a fight over the same period, Id say that's pretty good...


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## Jammer (22 Aug 2009)

...particularly true seeing as though Brit soldiers based at Akrotiri are banned from some of the very places we were able to go


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## Greymatters (22 Aug 2009)

...especially compared to, i.e. 1988, when we only had 600 soldiers there and more than 2 got in trouble with locals over a six month period...


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## Rifleman62 (23 Aug 2009)

Will the Toronto Star print this??


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## X Royal (23 Aug 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> ...especially compared to, i.e. 1988, when we only had 600 soldiers there and more than 2 got in trouble with locals over a six month period...


Not a logical comparison. Those there on UN tours spent 6 months there not only a couple of days.


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## 5parta (23 Aug 2009)

Can these soldiers choose where they can go to get "decompressed"? For example, can they choose to go somewhere else with their loved ones?


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## dangerboy (23 Aug 2009)

5parta said:
			
		

> Can these soldiers choose where they can go to get "decompressed"? For example, can they choose to go somewhere else with their loved ones?


No, as part of the decompression there is lectures you have to attend that are being presented by people flown in.


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## Jarnhamar (23 Aug 2009)

Should be 5 days.
2 for classes, which are dry (both the classes and soldiers, ha)
then 3 for drinking and partying.


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## SARgirl (28 Aug 2009)

I hope I'm posting this in the correct thread, if not, mods- please feel free to move this post to the appropriate thread.  

It appears the video was done in Cyprus.

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*Third Location Decompression*
_CFCombatCamera
August 27, 2009
_
Third Location Decompression (TLD) aids Canadian Forces soldiers leaving conflict zones at the end of their tour before returning to Canada. During this process, soldiers spend five days in a decompression area where they attend seminars about reintegrating to normal life, and take part in recreational activities to help them relax. 

*Video Length: *
4:50

*Link:*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVwwgkT5sKM&feature=sub


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## PMedMoe (28 Aug 2009)

Interesting video, although the audio/video was quite out of sync.

They have to wear their AR CADPAT?  No wonder people were dragging in barrack boxes.  You'd think they'd try to cut down on how much crap a person has to lug with them.


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## Greymatters (28 Aug 2009)

(same article, different source)
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/677588 
"R and R spells financial ruin for Canadian troops"

This article makes it sound quite seedy; it makes one wonder, 'is the writer being deliberately obtuse?' - I would say yes...

Apparently its okay for workers in other industries to spend their money, get drunk, and seek sexual partners, once they get out of the field, but god forbid our soldiers should do the same...


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## Nfld Sapper (28 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Interesting video, although the audio/video was quite out of sync.
> 
> They have to wear their AR CADPAT?  No wonder people were dragging in barrack boxes.  You'd think they'd try to cut down on how much crap a person has to lug with them.



Moe, the AR CADPAT seems to be for when they take the flight home.....


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## The Bread Guy (28 Aug 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> (same article, different source)
> http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/677588
> "R and R spells financial ruin for Canadian troops"
> 
> ...



Lots of agreement with you there already discussed here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88264.0.html


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## PMedMoe (28 Aug 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Moe, the AR CADPAT seems to be for when they take the flight home.....



The video showed them in lectures wearing their uniforms.   But yeah, I can understand the flight home bit.


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## Jammer (28 Aug 2009)

We change into civvies when we arrive in Mirage. Fly to Cyprus a few hours later...the night is ours.
Classes the next 2 mornings only and the third day is ours.
Fourth day in uniform for the flight home.
Anyone who has done TLD will most likely agree that three days is enough.


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## Loachman (28 Aug 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Moe, the AR CADPAT seems to be for when they take the flight home.....



One changes into civvies in Mirage for the flight to Cyprus. Rucksack and kitbag stay in storage during TLD, so one only has one's small pack and barracks box. TLD is all in civvies. The group shots in CADPAT would have been filmed on the departure day, during the outclearance.

...Damn, you beat me...


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## Jammer (28 Aug 2009)

I'll revel in that all night now.
It's not often I get one up on the Air Force... ;D


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## Greymatters (28 Aug 2009)

_Lots of agreement with you there already discussed here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88264.0.html_

Ah, I didnt know that thread was there - the posts read pretty good at first, but then turns into the usual sidetracked train wreck (the switching to a debate over sunshine girls...)


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## Loachman (28 Aug 2009)

Jammer said:
			
		

> I'll revel in that all night now.



Gloat while you may. I'll be watching for an opportunity from now on.



			
				Jammer said:
			
		

> It's not often I get one up on the Air Force... ;D



You didn't this time. See what it says under "Loachman".


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## Jammer (28 Aug 2009)

Canadian Army Aviation...a nice thought.
I have pics from my Dad's days when the Voyageurs were green and had CDN ARMY on them...
GOARMY!!!


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## daftandbarmy (29 Aug 2009)

Big friggin' deal...

I was in Paphos (and most of the rest of Cyprus) through the 80s when it was full of Marionite Christians and other Lebanese 'decompressing' from the Beirut conflagration. Obviously there was a bit of chaos from time to time, but it seemd like an SOP for the locals who have built Greek Cyprus to be the 'rooting and tooting' destination island for most of Europe and the Levant since 1974. Heck, where else in the world can you body surf with two huge Keo beers in your hand over a sea of drunken teenagers in a reworked bunker/disco? (oops, busted)

I'd wager it's even calmed down since then, but there are probably people on this forum with 2,3,4s etc on their UN medals who can comment with greater authority than I.


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## The Bread Guy (29 Aug 2009)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> _Lots of agreement with you there already discussed here:
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88264.0.html_
> 
> Ah, I didnt know that thread was there - the posts read pretty good at first, but then turns into the usual sidetracked train wreck (the switching to a debate over sunshine girls...)



How unlike some threads, right?   ;D


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## PMedMoe (29 Aug 2009)

Jammer said:
			
		

> We change into civvies when we arrive in Mirage. Fly to Cyprus a few hours later...the night is ours.
> Classes the next 2 mornings only and the third day is ours.
> Fourth day in uniform for the flight home.
> Anyone who has done TLD will most likely agree that three days is enough.



Three days seems like plenty.  I was glad (on my tour) our decompression lectures all took place in KAF, so that when we went on our R&R (at an undisclosed location  ), all our time was for ourselves.   ;D


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## Jammer (29 Aug 2009)

Luuuuucky ;D


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## ruckmarch (29 Aug 2009)

Jammer said:
			
		

> We change into civvies when we arrive in Mirage. Fly to Cyprus a few hours later...the night is ours.
> Classes the next 2 mornings only and the third day is ours.
> Fourth day in uniform for the flight home.
> Anyone who has done TLD will most likely agree that three days is enough.



It's exactly as you stated


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## PMedMoe (5 Feb 2010)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Must have been a slow news day at The Sun:
> http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/01/12690431-sun.html


Considering that was on Canoe news 2-3 days ago, yeah.  I didn't see fit to post it then.  Check out the list of "incidents".  Some of them seem like self-defence to me.   :


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## The Bread Guy (28 Dec 2011)

Bump with the latest - watch for a merge shortly....


> The combat mission is over, but the Canadian Forces will continue a program that allows soldiers to “decompress” for a few days at a resort in Cyprus on their way home from a tour of duty in Afghanistan.
> 
> The Canadian Forces is awarding a contract for up to $25 million to provide accommodation, transport, leisure activities and equipment handling for the “third location decompression program.” It’s designed to help troops make a smooth transition to family and society after six to eight months in a hostile, stressful and dangerous environment ....


The Huffington Post, 28 Dec 11 - Vaguely-worded MERX posting here (PDF of tender call here if link doesn't work)


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## Redeye (28 Dec 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Bump with the latest - watch for a merge shortly....The Huffington Post, 28 Dec 11 - Vaguely-worded MERX posting here (PDF of tender call here if link doesn't work)



Interesting. They told us TLD wasn't a sure thing for Op ATTENTION Roto 1 - they wanted to see what happened with Roto 0. Looks like we know now.


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## PuckChaser (28 Dec 2011)

Awesome, I'm going back to Flairs!!!


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## Jarnhamar (29 Dec 2011)

I wonder if it will still be like Lord of the Flies there.


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## Sig_Des (29 Dec 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Awesome, I'm going back to Flairs!!!



That place was gross, Robin Hoods is where it's at!


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## PuckChaser (29 Dec 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> That place was gross, Robin Hoods is where it's at!



It was nice in March 08 when I was there, but it was a Tuesday/Wednesday night so there was no one else in the bar but us. Real nice bartender.


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## armyvern (29 Dec 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Awesome, I'm going back to Flairs!!!



Been there; danced on the bar with the stripper pole --- got the t-shirt.  8)


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## armyvern (29 Dec 2011)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> That place was gross, Robin Hoods is where it's at!



It rocked this last roto.


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## PuckChaser (29 Dec 2011)

Never made it to Robin Hood's, its on the list for this time around if Paphos wins the contract again. Anyone head to Stavros' restaurant? Amazing food, and the guy sat and drank with us all night. Loved Canadians.


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## armyvern (29 Dec 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Never made it to Robin Hood's, its on the list for this time around if Paphos wins the contract again. Anyone head to Stavros' restaurant? Amazing food, and the guy sat and drank with us all night. Loved Canadians.



Hit there too. Awesome place to eat and I highly recommend it!!

Holy youtube videos of Flairs and all the others batman!!


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## Loachman (30 Dec 2011)

I had a great time at Stavros' place on all three nights after my first tour. Sadly, he was closed when I was there this past August - there were various stories going around, mainly involving a dispute with other restaurants and licensing. I was able to phone him and arrange a visit at his restaurant on my last night. I was glad to see that it was ready to open again, and now apparently has.

He is one of the most delightful madmen that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.


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## BDTyre (30 Dec 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Never made it to Robin Hood's, its on the list for this time around if Paphos wins the contract again. Anyone head to Stavros' restaurant? Amazing food, and the guy sat and drank with us all night. Loved Canadians.



Got a free t-shirt from Robin Hood's. Spent most of my last night there, but only ever went in once - to use the washroom. Drank out front the whole time. Flairs was...uh...too loud and too 80s-ish. Also filled with drunken Scots from the British army.


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## armyvern (31 Dec 2011)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> Got a free t-shirt from Robin Hood's. Spent most of my last night there, but only ever went in once - to use the washroom. Drank out front the whole time. Flairs was...uh...too loud and too 80s-ish. Also filled with drunken Scots from the British army.



I'm 43; I'm OK with 80ies_ish_ ... although Flairs certainly wasn't _that_ a mere three weeks ago.


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