# Man spits on Fonda



## CADPAT SOLDIER (21 Apr 2005)

[  Article ]


Vietnam Veteran Spits in Jane Fonda's Face 

By Victoria Ward, PA, in New York 


A Vietnam veteran has been arrested in the United States for spitting tobacco juice in Jane Fonda's face.

Michael Smith, 54, queued for 90 minutes at a Kansas book signing before launching his attack on the 67-year-old actress.


He spat a â Å“large amountâ ? of liquid in her face and then ran away, but was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct, police said.

Fonda was signing copies of her new memoir, My Life So Far, which describes her notorious 1972 visit to Hanoi where she was photographed on a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft tank.

She has since apologised for the incident, which earned her the nickname Hanoi Jane, and has described it as a â Å“two-minute lapse of sanityâ ?. 

Smith told the Kansas City Star newspaper that Fonda was a â Å“traitorâ ? who had spat in the faces of war veterans for 37 years.

â Å“I consider it a debt of honour,â ? he said. â Å“There are a lot of veterans who would love to do what I did.â ? 

Fonda later issued a statement saying: â Å“In spite of the incident, my experience in Kansas City was wonderful and I thank all the warm and supportive people, including so many veterans, who came to welcome me.â ?

Smith was released on bail and is due in court on May 27.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4433543


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## Jarnhamar (21 Apr 2005)

> He spat a â Å“large amountâ ? of liquid in her face and then ran away, but was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct, police said.


Guess he wasn't recon.

Jane fonda is quite the hammer head.


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## Michael Dorosh (21 Apr 2005)

Fonda apologized last month. Even if she didn't, or even if it wasn't sincere, assault is assault.  What a no class act, and a disgrace to all the other Vietnam veterans who have weathered the assorted indignities heaped upon them with dignity and grace.  

I hope they throw the book at him.


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## TCBF (21 Apr 2005)

"But now, despite the bombs, despite the crimes being created-being committed against them by Richard Nixon, these people own their own land, build their own schools-the children learning, literacy- illiteracy is being wiped out, there is no more prostitution as there was during the time when this was a French colony. In other words, the people have taken power into their own hands, and they are controlling their own lives. 

And after 4,000 years of struggling against nature and foreign invaders-and the last 25 years, prior to the revolution, of struggling against French colonialism-I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh."

- Jane Fonda in North Vietnam


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## Infanteer (21 Apr 2005)

Couldn't of happened to a better lady.

Nice work Michael Smith.


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## Marauder (21 Apr 2005)

Agree with Infanteer.


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## Britney Spears (21 Apr 2005)

Well, her inflamatory statements at the time could probably have been a little more tactful, but kudos to her for sticking to her principles and actually going to Vietnam instead of just talking the empty talk like anti-war protesters now like to do. It took guts to do what she did and she's stil suffering the consequences today.


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## nULL (21 Apr 2005)

> He spat a â Å“large amountâ ? of liquid in her face *and then ran away*,





> â Å“I consider it a debt of honour.â ?



If he was so sure he was doing the right thing, then why didn't he stay to face the music for his actions? Irregardless of his service in Vietnam, he acted like a street thug.


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## DogOfWar (21 Apr 2005)

nULL said:
			
		

> If he was so sure he was doing the right thing, then why didn't he stay to face the music for his actions? Irregardless of his service in Vietnam, he acted like a street thug.



Maybe she learned Kung Fu from Charlie, and he was doing a "tactical repositioning" in order to better do battle.


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## X Royal (21 Apr 2005)

I have to agree spitting on her was definetly wrong. IMO she should have been shot & p*ssed on or at least hung as a traitor. That kind of behavior can never be forgaven.  Imagine a Canadian actress during WW 2 hanging out with Hitler then coming back and fitting right in with any respect? *NOT LIKELY
*


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## Slim (21 Apr 2005)

When I hear about Jane Fonda i get as mad as the next soldier...I can't say I agree with spitting on someone though.

She is a disgrace and probably cost lots of lives by her irresponsible actions. However when you do something like spitting on someone and then say that this was done in the name of all those who served you're assuming that they would have all spit on her too.

She should be punished...But under the law, not with spit.


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## Rubes (21 Apr 2005)

That man is my hero for the day.


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## larry Strong (21 Apr 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Well, her inflammatory statements at the time could probably have been a little more tactful, but kudos to her for sticking to her principles and actually going to Vietnam instead of just talking the empty talk like anti-war protesters now like to do. It took guts to do what she did and she's still suffering the consequences today.



As she should be,   
While she was over there a series of photo's was taken of an elated Jane Fonda sitting an an operational AA gun.

She stated that the returning POW's were lying about being tortured while in North Vietnamese prisons, 

She was part of an organised effortposing as Red Cross officials who visited known or suspected POW families, eliciting very personal information from bereaved families-then making sure said information was passed on to the North Viet's and used to break prisoner's morale (kind of tough being in POW status, and finding out the little woman has divorce you back home) 

Probably her worst crime was the fingering of Col Nick Rowe as a Special forces member. Col Rowe had successfully posed for a number of years as a "Engineer" when he was "outed" by Fonda's people. from what I under stand Col Rowe intended to bring charges against Fonda as soon as he retired, but he was assassinated in the Philippines while still on active duty.   

She also helped set up a safe house outside Ft Bragg to help people desert from the Army.

This was all passed on to me by an ex US serviceman that I count as a good friend.

It's easy for us to say what she did was not all that bad, but if you go down south of the border where her actions caused a lot of unnecessary pain for tens of thousands of peopleand insulted those who served and those who died.

Having said this I do not agree with the actions of the man who spit on her, as previously stated a cowardly act, but I also do not know the perpetrators history....maybe he was a prisoner.

There is a bumper sticker available in the states that sums up the feeling of a lot of Americans:

"I will forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive Hitler"


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## mainerjohnthomas (21 Apr 2005)

If it is to be a moral stand, then stand.  If it is a bullshit stunt, then run like a chicken.
Jane Fonda was a traitor.  Opposition to a war is a moral stance.  Standing on the weapons of the enemies of your nation, the very guns that are taking the lives of your countrymen, shaking hands with the killers of your own kind, that is about as far from moral as you can get.  Opposing your nations involvement of the war is a moral choice, based on your ideals of justice, and the good governance of your own land.  Siding with the enemies of your own nation, offering aid and comfort to them, furthering their propaganda, and offering your blessing to the weapons that shed the blood of those who stand for your own country is base treason.  Had this man spat in her face, and proudly stood his ground, returning the scorn she showed the brave men who fought and died in that conflict, then he would have my support for taking a moral stand.  As he spat and ran, he showed moral convictions quite similar to Ms Fonda; cheap bullshit theatrics.  An airhead traitor accosted by a dimwit coward; a pox on them both.


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## Britney Spears (21 Apr 2005)

> She was part of an organised effortposing as Red Cross officials who visited known or suspected POW families, eliciting very personal information from bereaved families-then making sure said information was passed on to the North Viet's and used to break prisoner's morale (kind of tough being in POW status, and finding out the little woman has divorce you back home)
> 
> Probably her worst crime was the fingering of Col Nick Rowe as a Special forces member. Col Rowe had successfully posed for a number of years as a "Engineer" when he was "outed" by Fonda's people. from what I under stand Col Rowe intended to bring charges against Fonda as soon as he retired, but he was assassinated in the Philippines while still on active duty.



Cite?


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## Michael Dorosh (21 Apr 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Cite?



Is this the one snopes.com debunks?  Hold on....

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp


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## Britney Spears (21 Apr 2005)

I've looked it up on snopes a long time ago. The article does not refute specifically the claims made by Larry, but obviously, since most of the other Fonda-hater's claims have been debunked, I would surmise that these claims are most likely also a myth.

Of course Mr. Strong is welcome to offer his sources for our scrutiny.


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## DogOfWar (21 Apr 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> I've looked it up on snopes a long time ago. The article does not refute specifically the claims made by Larry, but obviously, since most of the other Fonda-hater's claims have been debunked, I would surmise that these claims are most likely also a myth.
> 
> Of course Mr. Strong is welcome to offer his sources for our scrutiny.



I dont see "most" being debunked in that snopes article. i see one rumor debunked.


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## Britney Spears (21 Apr 2005)

> I dont see "most" being debunked in that snopes article. i see one rumor debunked.



Everything that was not a matter of public record and that she herself has admitted to (The photo with the AAA gun, her own speeches and writings) was debunked. Since the "slip of paper" story was more or less thouroughly discredited, I imagine the similar stories presented here are also myths. 

Of course, once Larry Strong comes back with the evidence it will all be clear. 



> The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above â â€ that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result â â€ are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.
> 
> "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him, saying, "I never met Jane Fonda."
> 
> The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him.





> The unknown author of the "Hanoi Jane" e-mail appears to have picked up Benge's story online and combined it with fabricated tales to create the forwarded text. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name listed; others quote his statement anonymously.
> 
> In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many American POWs to their families upon her return from North Vietnam, and rumors that a POW was beaten to death when he refused to meet with her were nothing more than rumors.


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## larry Strong (21 Apr 2005)

As I stated most of what I passed on to you was told to me by a man I have known for 20+ years, he is an ex-service man and a Vietnam war vet, and I have no reason to believe   he lied to me. I have seen numerous photo's of him and Col Rowe, both in a professional setting and in a "relaxed setting", so I guess you have to make your own opinions.

The bottom line is she is a traitor to her country, and probably has only aapologisedto help sales of her book. IMHO


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## Britney Spears (21 Apr 2005)

> As I stated most of what I passed on to you was told to me by a man I have known for 20+ years, he is an ex-service man and a Vietnam war vet, and I have no reason to believe  he lied to me. I have seen numerous photo's of him and Col Rowe, both in a professional setting and in a "relaxed setting", so I guess you have to make your own opinions.



No problem. I was genuinely curious as to whether there was any hard evidence of those claims, not trying to attack or discredit yourself personally.


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## larry Strong (21 Apr 2005)

No offense taken , It is a touchy subject and there are lots of myths and rumors going around on this subject.


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (22 Apr 2005)

http://www.psywarrior.com/rowe.html

Here's a little bit more on Col. Nick Rowe


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## the 48th regulator (22 Apr 2005)

sorry mates,

for her actions, she very well has deserved a good spit in the face, as she gave to her fellow Americans.  An apology does not erase what she did.   If she wanted us to believe that she regretted what she did, she has had many a decades to repent her mistake.

An apology to stop the protests, so that she can carry on her pissant Career is sad sad sad...


dileas

tess


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## baboon6 (22 Apr 2005)

I read Rowe's book many years ago and my memory may be wrong but this all sounds a bit strange to me. How would the anti-war group have known what Rowe's assignment was? IIRC his name wasn't on any lists of POWs, he was being carried as MIA. He never in fact was in North Vietnam, being moved around between various camps in the South, around the Mekong Delta.


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## Slim (22 Apr 2005)

(Cdt.) Sgt.Bergen said:
			
		

> http://www.psywarrior.com/rowe.html
> 
> Here's a little bit more on Col. Nick Rowe



After reading about Col. Rowe I think of Jane Fonda and want to vomit...

No excuse. None...Ever!



> How would the anti-war group have known what Rowe's assignment was?



With all the anti-war stuff in full swing I imagine that there were more like her out there who wanted to "get even" with the system any way they could...They probably did a ton of damage and most were never caught.

After all its only the people you trust who can really screw you! I imagine that many of those"objector"types found their way into the service back then.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Apr 2005)

Ya spitting on her was gross. Theres no excuse for assault.

I've never been in a war. I've never seen my buddies blown to shit. I haven't spent the last 30 years dealing with those kind of memories.

Jane Fonda did some f*****g stupid stupid things. After what this vet's been through, i'm not going to judge him for   what he did to her. She who seemed to bend over backwards to slap these guys and their sacrifices, in the face.

Jane Fonda has blood on her hands, whats a little spit in the face.




Edited by Slim for language.


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## KevinB (22 Apr 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Jane Fonda has blood on her hands, whats a little spit in the face.



DITTO 


- I don't agree he should have run off though, if he felt enough to do it (I woudl have thrown piss) - at least be man enough to accept the possible punishment


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## Britney Spears (22 Apr 2005)

So far, there has been no evidence, besides the fellow's own claims, that Micheal Smith was actually a vet, or that he   even has any military background. Certainly if he did, it would not reflect kindly at all upon his organization.

No branch, unit, period of service, nothing. If he showed up at army.ca I would have called him on his BS long ago. Until it is published, I strongly question his claims of being a veteran.


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## Blackhorse7 (23 Apr 2005)

Sorry to those who disagree...

I will say that Jane Fonda should have been tried as an insurgent back when this took place, and that no amount of apologies makes up for what she did.  But with that being said, this coward spits in a woman's face and then RUNS?!?  Despite how I feel about JF, if I had been the next guy in line, Smith would be spitting chicklets all over the floor, and most likely eating a lot of soup through his wired up jaw.  Take her book and burn it in front of her, piss on it, or right after she signs it, throw it in the trash.  DO NOT spit in another person's face.  I can hardly think of a more disgusting and degrading form of assault.

As Dennis Miller says... "but that's just my opinion..."


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## canadianblue (23 Apr 2005)

Why wasn't this woman charged with Treason. If that is indeed true, imagine what would happen if a Canadian went over to Japan or Germany, and started talking about how great their nations were, and chatting it up with Hitler. All I can say is, she deserved to be spit in the face, especially if she was never punished for her actions against her country.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Apr 2005)

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> Why wasn't this woman charged with Treason. If that is indeed true, imagine what would happen if a Canadian went over to Japan or Germany, and started talking about how great their nations were, and chatting it up with Hitler. All I can say is, she deserved to be spit in the face, especially if she was never punished for her actions against her country.



You mean like Canadian Prime Minister Mackenzie-King in 1937?

Regarding his meeting with Hitler, King recorded: _"My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow-men, and his country, and would make any sacrifice for their good."_ (Diary, June 29, 1937)

Hitler appeared, to King, to be _"a man of deep sincerity and a genuine patriot."_ (Diary, June 29, 1937)

King saw similarities between himself and Hitler: _"As I talked with him, I could not but think of Joan of Arc. He is distinctly a mystic .... He is a teetotaller and also a vegetarian; is unmarried, abstemist in all his habits and ways."_ (Diary, June 29, 1937)

People do make silly mistakes, even Canadian prime ministers and film actresses.  King changed his views; perhaps Ms. Fonda did too.


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## Infanteer (23 Apr 2005)

Canada was not at war with Germany in 1937.


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## Michael Dorosh (23 Apr 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Canada was not at war with Germany in 1937.



America was not at war with North Vietnam in the 1960s and 70s, either.  Treason is still possible in peacetime, of course, though I don't wish to enter the debate.

Edward - yes, it is possible for Ms. Fonda to change her views.


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## Infanteer (23 Apr 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> America was not at war with North Vietnam in the 1960s and 70s, either.   Treason is still possible in peacetime, of course, though I don't wish to enter the debate.



Would it have sounded better if I would have said "Canada was not engaged in hostilites with Germany in 1937"?  The comparison is still poor.

Sure, technically war wasn't declared - but US Servicemen were fighting and dying everyday with soldiers of Regular NVA divisions.   These are the same fellows Ms Fonda decided to have a date with.

Remember the discussion on the Canadians who went back to the Balkans to fight and were in a situation that may of had them fighting against Canadian soldiers?   As 48thHighlander was nice enough to point out, these people were liable to be guilty of Treason if they did so:



			
				48Highlander said:
			
		

> Seems pretty clear to me.   Under the criminal code of Canada, an individual fighting for "any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities" wether in or out of Canada, is guilty of Treason, and upon convinction will be sentenced to at MINIMUM life imprisonment.



I'm sure the US Laws are the same - I checked, and that seems to be the case:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title18/parti_chapter115_.html

*Sec. 2381. Treason

      Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against 
them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the 
United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, 
or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this 
title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any 
office under the United States.*

(I'm sure the courts would accept the NVA as "enemies", considering that there is a monument with 53,000 names inscribed on a Wall in Washington DC.)

...and...

*(a) Whoever, with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the 
loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the 
United States:
            (1) advises, counsels, urges, or in any manner causes or 
      attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of 
      duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United 
      States; or
            (2) distributes or attempts to distribute any written or printed 
      matter which advises, counsels, or urges insubordination, 
      disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military 
      or naval forces of the United States--

      Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten 
years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United 
States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next 
following his conviction.*

Ms Fonda is no better then an expat that returns to a country and engages in combat with the Canadian Forces.   She is free to dissent against the policies of her Government, but she went beyond that line and is a traitor.

Regardless of what people think about the guy who spat and ran, a nice plug of Redman in the face is the least of what Jane Fonda deserves.

Infanteer


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## TCBF (23 Apr 2005)

"I read Rowe's book many years ago and my memory may be wrong but this all sounds a bit strange to me. How would the anti-war group have known what Rowe's assignment was? IIRC his name wasn't on any lists of POWs, he was being carried as MIA. He never in fact was in North Vietnam, being moved around between various camps in the South, around the Mekong Delta."

The American anti-war activists had many facets.   Some actively gathered and passed on intelligence to the "Case workers" who were GRU/KGB/Whatever. 

This was a mere 20 or so years after the "spies in the state department" scandals and the justifiable execution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, so there is not all that much to be shocked about.


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## bossi (24 Apr 2005)

Blackhorse7 said:
			
		

> ... DO NOT spit in another person's face.   I can hardly think of a more disgusting and degrading form of assault.
> 
> As Dennis Miller says... "but that's just my opinion..."



Agreed - "two wrong don't make a right".
And, when you stoop to tactics such as spitting, it distracts from and degrades your position.
"Drop your stick, Drop your gloves, and Drop your opponent"
-- A favourite hockey tshirt


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## Infanteer (24 Apr 2005)

bossi said:
			
		

> And, when you stoop to tactics such as spitting, it distracts from and degrades your position.
> "Drop your stick, Drop your gloves, and Drop your opponent"
> -- A favourite hockey tshirt



So, are you saying the guy should have jerseyed Jane Fonda and punched her in the head?   ???


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## aesop081 (24 Apr 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> America was not at war with North Vietnam in the 1960s and 70s, either.



Micheal, don't you think you are spliting hairs here ?


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## bossi (24 Apr 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> So, are you saying the guy should have jerseyed Jane Fonda and punched her in the head?     ???



Well ... it would have made a great Molson's commercial ...
http://canada4life.ca/videos.php?video=3

I've got more respect for guys who at least maintain some semblance of honour (i.e. can "dance" whilst balancing on thin blades of steel) as opposed to thugs who spit in a woman's face ...


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## Infanteer (24 Apr 2005)

Yes, true - it is definitely not something I would do, but I have more respect for a man who spits in someones face then I do for someone who sells out their fellow countryman and consorts with the enemy who sent 53,000 Americans home in bodybags.... :threat:


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## COBRA-6 (24 Apr 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Yes, true - it is definitely not something I would do, but I have more respect for a man who spits in someones face then I do for someone who sells out their fellow countryman and consorts with the enemy who sent 53,000 Americans home in bodybags.... :threat:



Seconded... I could only imagine how someone who was over there, and saw their buddies being wounded, maimed, tortured and killed would feel.


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## Britney Spears (24 Apr 2005)

I guess the whole "Vietnam War was a horrible mistake" tidbit isn't too popular around here eh?  If they had listened to Jane Fonda from the beginning, 3 million Vietnamese lives would have been saved (and the 58k Americans too, but really, it's a rather inconsequential number in comparision, isn't it? Go tell that to the Vietnamese, I'm sure they feel real sorry about it.). Who do you think got the last laugh out of that one?  

I still cannot find any details about the military background of this "Michael Smith" character. Any of you spitters care to enlighten me?


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## Infanteer (24 Apr 2005)

We're not debating the Vietnam War - as I said earlier, criticism and protest of government policies is perfectly valid.  But there is a difference to criticising your own country and actively supporting the hostile forces of another.  Despite what Anne Coulter spits out, Americans opposed to the war in Iraq or the War on Terror in general are not "traitors" or "disloyal" - they are exercising a democratic right to dissent.  John Walker Lindh is a traitor (unless he renounced his citizenship, did he ever?) and like Jane Fonda, crossed the line and broke the law; she willingly gave aid and support to those who would fight and kill her fellow countrymen.


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## Britney Spears (24 Apr 2005)

It is very much debatable whether Ms. Fonda actually broke the law (see the snopes link posted earlier, unless you have a better source). I am of the opinion that she did not, and apparently the US goverment agrees with me. If they thought otherwise she would no doubt have been prosecuted long ago. As I stated in my first post, I agree that her actions were inflamatory and could have been better thought out, but it is only by degree that I disagree with her setiment. I also find the amount of vitrol you guys manage to dredge up for a 60 year old victim of assault to be distasteful, but oh well, different strokes.....


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## rcd33b (28 Apr 2005)

It was outstanding-absolutely beautiful-first rate-fantastic-wonderful-long time coming-far less than she deserved-hollywood types are the last people in the world who should be given any type of a platform in political issues beyond what people who actually work for a living have access to. Their opinions are based upon no more information than what everyone else has access to and it is only because the media are so commie/hippie/pinko/dope smoking/left wing/liberal/long haired/maggot infested themselves that they get the coverage they do.   I know that all of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children stood up and cheered as a man upon hearing of this final salvo from someone who served and paid the price (many did their duty whether they agreed with the war or not), as opposed to those who turned chicken and ran (and think they should be rewarded and honored for doing so).  SEMPER FI!!!


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