# Order in Council?



## amk81 (20 Feb 2011)

Hey everyone...another question...hopefully not a stupid one.
I'm joining the reserves and was wondering in what circumstances (if any) would i be *required* to deploy overseas?  Keeping in mind I know that there has to be an "order in council" but what does that really mean?  I've also heard a former reg force guy tell me that there's no circumstances where a reservist would be forced to deploy. 

Please understand that I'm not saying I wouldn't deploy...I just like to have as much info as possible.

Thanks!


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## PuckChaser (20 Feb 2011)

Order in Council means the Governor General makes a law on behalf of the Queen with the advice of the Prime Minister. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005968

The only circumstances a Reservist can be forced to deploy is by Order in Council, which would probably have to be a major natural disaster, aide to civil power operation, or global conflict.


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## Neill McKay (21 Feb 2011)

> I've also heard a former reg force guy tell me that there's no circumstances where a reservist would be forced to deploy.



To put it into perspective, I don't believe it's ever happened outside of a world war.


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## JMesh (21 Feb 2011)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> To put it into perspective, I don't believe it's ever happened outside of a world war.



According to Wikipedia, that would likely be correct. (Admittedly not the best source in the world, but here it is anyway):



> In case of a severe national emergency, an Order In Council may be signed by the Governor General of Canada acting under the advisement of the federal cabinet to call reserve members of the Canadian Forces into active service. Members of the reserve have not been called to involuntary active service in foreign operations since the Second World War.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_Primary_Reserve#Deployment


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## The Bread Guy (21 Feb 2011)

A bit more detail from a 1999 paper on the Reserves (also attached in case link doesn't work) - highlights mine:


> .... B. Mobilization Strategies
> 
> (....)
> 
> ...


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## Neill McKay (22 Feb 2011)

If I recall correctly (and it's been a good long while since I read that paper) the information quoted above was proposed as a possible scheme for a national call-out or the reserves, as opposed to a description of any existing plan.


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## Dennis Ruhl (22 Feb 2011)

It is my understanding that reservists were not involuntarily activated to fight overseas even during WWI and WWII.  Conscription caught reservists on the same basis as it did the general population.  Many reservists in these wars may have been in an occupation vital to the war effort and were exempt from conscription.  In our history call-ups for the direct defence of Canada or aid to the civil power were common.  Unless something has changed recently, there is no provision to send reservists overseas without volunteering.  That said, I would guess that at least  90 % of pre-war reservists volunteered.

National Guard units are finding recruiting to be very difficult with the possibility of having to spend multiple tours overseas.  Other than a couple unlucky units the US didn't even call up the Guard during the Vietnam War.  My American relatives spent a lifetime in the Guard without ever seeing a war.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Feb 2011)

To add to what Dennis says, while you are not "required" to serve, there is definitely an expectation that you will serve if asked as this is part of what you accept when you chose to don the uniform. I am not talking here of general calls for volunteers, as the militia is called upon to assist in Afghanistan, but rather specific request for your service or request to call out your unit.

During the cold war (my era), we reservists certainly expected war to break out at any time and at home, most of us kept our gear all packed in our kit bag at all time. When I was asked to serve during OP SALON (the Oka crisis), I said yes and sorted out the details with my employer after the fact. I was ready to find myself unemployed if it came to that because I had accepted to serve if asked. That is how I think most reservists see the duty they agreed to take on. So make sure you don't explore the nuance between required service and requested service to think you can elect which conflict you support or not through your participation in it.


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## Blackadder1916 (22 Feb 2011)

amk81 said:
			
		

> . . . I know that there has to be an "order in council" but what does that really mean?  . . .



The likelihood of a reservist being involuntarily deployed has already been well addressed - it is very unlikely.  But orders of the Governor in Council placing members of the Canadian Forces (both regular and reserve) on active service are not as uncommon as most think.



			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Order in Council means the Governor General *makes a law* on behalf of the Queen with the advice of the Prime Minister. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005968



This is an incorrect explanation of an "order in council".  The only federal entity in Canada that can “make a law” is Parliament and that is done through statute (or regulation).  An “order in council”, on the other hand, is a proclamation of an administrative decision made in accordance with existing law.  In the case of placing elements of the Canadian Forces on “active service” that law is the National Defence Act.  For the OP, it is also the law that governs the requirement to serve for members of the CF, regular and reserve.

National Defence Act


> *Active Service*
> 
> Placing forces on active service
> 
> ...



There are also regulations that govern the Canadian Forces called the Queen's Regulations and Orders (QR&Os) which has more detail about liability of service.  Additionally other orders and directives (while not considered to be statutory instruments like the QR&Os) provide further clarification as to how the CF interprets and administers these statutes and regulations.  One such order/directive is:

 ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY OF CLASS "A", CLASS "B" AND CLASS "C" RESERVE SERVICE  CF MIL PERS INSTR 20/04


> 2.18 Active Service
> 
> 1. Pursuant to PC 1989-583 and paragraph 31(1)(b) of the National Defence Act, officers and non-commissioned members of the Reserve Component of the CF are on active service anywhere beyond Canada.
> 
> ...




In the context of this discussion, i.e. deployment overseas on operations, historically the term “active service” had been taken to mean service of a war-like nature beyond the territorial limits of the country or if the nation was in a state of declared war with another nation.  The term has, especially in the years since World War 2, evolve to encompass a wider range of military operational activities.  All members of the regular force of the Canadian Forces and some members of the reserve force are currently on active service due to such an order in council as this.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/regu/si-89-103/latest/si-89-103.html


> *Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service for the Purpose of Fulfilling Canada’s Obligations Under the North Atlantic Treaty   SI/89-103*
> NATIONAL DEFENCE ACT
> 
> Whereas it is desirable, in consequence of action undertaken by Canada to provide forces for collective defence under the North Atlantic Treaty, to place officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces on active service;
> ...



This order is just one iteration of similar instruments placing the CF on active service for the purpose of fulfilling obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty and was not unique.  Some of the other orders in council placing CF members on active service have been:

Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (Arabian Peninsula)  SI/90-111

Order Placing Members of the Canadian Force on Active Service (Western Sahara)  SI/91-146

Order No. 2 Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (Somalia), SI/92-222

 Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (Cambodia), SI/92-43

 Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (Iran-Iraq), SI/88-129

 Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (ONUCA—Central America), SI/90-15

 Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (Somalia) SI/92-169

 Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (UNTAG-Namibia), SI/89-104

 Order Placing Members of the Canadian Forces on Active Service (Yugoslavia)  SI/92-42

All these Orders in Council were similarly worded and include a paragraph such as this:


> . . .
> Therefore, His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of National Defence, pursuant to paragraph 31(1)(b)* of the National Defence Act, is pleased hereby to *place on active service beyond Canada* those
> (a) officers and non-commissioned members of the regular force of the Canadian Forces, and
> *(b) officers and non-commissioned members of the reserve force of the Canadian Forces*
> who are part of, or serve in immediate support of, the United Nations Protection Force.



This means reservists are on active service when they are employed beyond the territorial boundaries of  Canada, however some reserve members are deemed to be on active service within Canada.  As an odd factoid, there were a few Class A primary reservists and even CICs (performing Class A duties at their reserve unit and CIC officers similarly part-time at their cadet corps) on active service at one time.


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## pfinlayson (26 Nov 2011)

I am in the process of applying to join the Primary Reserves and was discussing with my wife the requirements for being a member and a question came up that I could answer.

"When was the last time the Primary Reserve faced obligatory service?"

I can take some educated guests from my history classes in University (WWII, possibly Korea, FLQ Crisis) but am not sure where to start a look for that kind of info.

Any leads from the history buffs out there?

Thanks.


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