# NCM Subsidized Education Plan  (NCM SEP)



## Goibniu

Hello All, 

I have looked every where I could think of, including the Forces.ca website and some searches on this forum, and I would like some answers from anyone with first hand knowledge. As far as I could find you do your BMQ, then go to civi college, and then do bridge training into your military occupation. My first question is about the actual subsidization itself, would I have to front the money for tuition and tools, and then get reimbursed upon completion of my course ? or would they send the check as soon as you are sworn in? My second question is, does anyone here have first hand experience living on base while attending college full time?  I would also like to hear experiences, good or bad, from anyone that has gone through the NCM SEP entry plan.  I would greatly appreciate any and all comments and advice given. 

P.S and for the record I have done a few searches using the search engine on this forum and didn't come up with any close threads that answer my questions and all I could find on the Forces.ca website was a short statement vaguely explaining that through the NCM SEP you can get paid to go to school. Also I will be asking my recruiter directly the next time i see him, I am just looking for a con-sensous of opinions and advice


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## George Wallace

It appears to me that you have not visited a CFRC and picked up the information that would have answered your questions.

Let's start here:

The Navy’s subsidized education plan for Non Commissioned members (NCM SEP) can be separated into two programs: the Naval Technical Training Plan (NTTP), and the Community College plan.  Both are considered as entry plans under NCM SEP.  

The NTTP program consists of two sub-programs: the Naval Combat Systems Technical Training Plan (NCSTTP) and the Marine Engineering Technical Training Plan (METTP), all of which are delivered in Newfoundland.  The NTTP was originally developed and funded by the Navy in the 1990s.  It has since grown to be the main source for the naval technical trade application route.  In the more recent past, the Navy’s enrolment numbers have decreased and the Navy has engaged in participating in the CF standard NCM SEP program, which allows students to take their education in an approved local Community College across Canada, in addition to the NTTP.


Now, to set us straight, what program are you going into, and where?


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## aesop081

George...maybe if you had looked into it, you would have seen that the OP isnt going to be joining the Navy.


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## Goibniu

ok I really should have mentioned that I am going into ACS TECH and will be taking the Structural Repair Tech course at Canadore College.  I was told that tuition and tools will be subsidized, but I was just thinking that some money has to be given to the school to hold my position in the program.  I am schedualed for BMQ in late march so i just want to make sure all my bases are covered. But more importantly Im looking for some first hand experinces, I have posted one or two questions about ACS Tech NCM SEP but havent had much of a response


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## George Wallace

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> George...maybe if you had looked into it, you would have seen that the OP isnt going to be joining the Navy.



See!  A little more clarity helps.

Now we have some place to start, rather than Memorial University of Newfoundland.


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## George Wallace

This is what the Recruiting Center has for information:

Primary Reserve members who component transfer into ACS Tech through the NCM-SEP will have their rank and pay level at entry into the Regular Force determined by DMCA during the transfer process. Cpls will receive basic pay until they are awarded QL5A.

Regular Force NCMs who occupation transfer into ACS Tech through the NCM-SEP will have their rank and other career issues determined in accordance with CFAO 11-12, Occupation Transfer of Non-Commissioned Members Regular Force. Cpls will receive basic pay until they are awarded QL5A.

*Note:*

1.	The civilian training must be at a Canadian Aviation Maintenance Council (CAMC) accredited facility. Upon completion of the training program, certificate/credits will be reviewed for delta training requirements.
2.	Completion of any transport Canada approved AME program will result in QL3 provisional.  Member will have to complete delta training at CFSATE for removal of provisional.
3.	Normal progression to Cpl will be IAW CFAO 49-4 and shall be respected

Aircraft Structures Technician at Canadore College of Applied Arts and Technology in ON (1 year Crse)

*CAREER PROFILE*

REQUIREMENT TO FULFIL	                              RANK            	PAY LEVEL            	TIME IN OCCUPATION
Civilian applicant on entry     	                            Pte(R)	     Pte IPC 1	
On completion of Basic Military Qualification (BMQ)	Pte(B)	     Pte IPC 1	               14 weeks
Successful completion of the subsidized academic year (note 1).	Pte(B)	Pte IPC 2	12 months
Successful completion of QL3 Delta Training	             Pte (T)	 Pte IPC 2	               15 months
Successful completion of QL4 via Apprentice Logbook.	Pte (T)	Pte IPC 2	3-6 months at field units (18-20 months)
Successful completion of QL5 via Apprentice Logbook.	Pte (T)	Pte IPC 3	          20-36 months
Promotion to Cpl and eligibility for Specialist 1 Pay Field	Cpl	   Cpl (Spec1)    	    48 months

So you will start getting paid as soon as you join, and you will live at the college.  You will have your education, books, etc. paid for as per the instructions that the CFRC can provide you.


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## Nfld Sapper

George Wallace said:
			
		

> See!  A little more clarity helps.
> 
> Now we have some place to start, rather than Memorial University of Newfoundland.



And what wrong with MUN?  

Our previous CDS came from there.


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## George Wallace

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> And what wrong with MUN?
> 
> Our previous CDS came from there.



That would have indicated he was going Navy.   :nod:

He's not.

The former CDS now has a website.......for donations to the Ottawa Food Bank.  Got $25 and 25 friends?   ;D


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## Goibniu

OK thanks for all the great information ...  but i was told by the recruiter i could live on base while at school because the aviation campus is right beside the base, so don't get me wrong i will take my school very serious because it is my full time job but I'm just not sure what living on base while attending college would be like - partying on weekends and over night guests - please I'm not looking for a speech on responsibility or ethics, etc. I am scheduled to be sworn in tomorrow so i will defiantly get everything straightend out


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## George Wallace

Just some information (subject to change and update) as to what NCM SEP is:

The Canadian Forces
Non-Commissioned Member – Subsidized Education Plan
(NCM-SEP) for Naval Technicians

If you are interested in a Navy technical trade, but are worried about the cost of tuition, you may be interested in checking out the rewarding option of joining the Canadian Forces (CF) under our Non-Commissioned Member – Subsidized Education Plan (NCM-SEP).

Benefits In this plan, selected candidates complete community college programmes that fulfil all or most of the initial training requirements for an occupation in the CF Regular Force. Applicants must be
accepted without condition in any one of the specific eligible programmes determined by the
Canadian Forces.

• Candidates receive a salary while going to school ($29,808 the first year, $36,456 the second
year; for 3-year programmes, they receive $43,788 the third year)
• Their tuition, books and academic equipment are funded for the duration of the programme
• Fully furnished accomodations are available at reduced cost if they attend the programme at
the Canadian Forces Naval Engineering School Detachment at the Marine Institute of
Memorial University of Newfoundland,
• They have a summer job in between their academic years
• They have a guaranteed job at the end of their programme and an immediate promotion to
Acting Leading Seaman with a salary of $50,112 plus numerous benefits.
The selected occupations that applicants may ent Selected Navy er through the NCM-SEP are, for the Navy:

Occupations
OCCUPATION                                                    TECHNICIAN DIPLOMA 

Naval Weapons Technician                                   Electro-Mechanical Engineering
Naval Electronics Technician – Sonar                      Electronics Engineering
Naval Electronics Technician – Communications          Electronics Engineering
Naval Electronics Technician – Radar                        Electronics Engineering
Marine Engineering Mechanic                                   Marine Engineering

Eligibility Requirements

NCM-SEP applicants must meet the minimum academic entry requirements for both the military
occupation and the appropriate subsidized college as published in that institution’s calendar.
To be eligible for the NCM-SEP, students must be Canadian citizens.
Commitment Graduates will serve 2 months of obligatory service for each 1 month of subsidized education commencing on the date of college graduation. Life in the Navy will offer them great opportunities for travel and adventure.
Military or Civilian ? Students can attend a military institution or a CF-approved civilian institution. However, civilian institutions do not offer all programmes leading to the 5 above-mentioned occupations.

• Training for all 5 occupations is offered through the fast-track 2-year programme at the
Canadian Forces Naval Engineering School Detachment Marine Institute of Memorial
University of Newfoundland. In particular, training for the Naval Weapons Technician
occupation is ONLY offered at this establishment. Students attending this military
establishment are required to wear the Canadian Forces uniform.
• A 3-year Marine Engineering programme leading to the Marine Engineering Mechanic
occupation is also offered in Quebec, in French, at the Institut maritime du Québec.
• The Electronics Engineering programme leading to the three Naval Electronics Technician
occupations is offered in several civilian CF-approved community colleges in Quebec, Ontario,
Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia (2 to 3 year programmes). Contact
your local Recruiting Centre for an up-to-date list of CF-approved civilian institutions.


OCCUPATION PROGRAMME NAME           INSTITUTION                        PROVINCE

Naval Wespons Technician

Electro-Mechanical Engineering Marine Institute, Memorial University      Newfoundland & Labrador
Electronics Engineering Marine Institute,      Memorial University      Newfoundland & Labrador
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Ahuntsic Quebec
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Limoilou Quebec
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Sherbrooke Quebec
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Trois-Rivières Quebec
Electronics Engineering Technician        Algonquin College              Ontario
Electronics Engineering Technician        Cambrian College               Ontario
Electronics Engineering Technology       RCC College of Technology       Ontario
Electronics Engineering Technology       Red River College                    Manitoba
Electronics System Engineering Technology     SIAST Kelsey Campus      Saskatchewan
Electronics Engineering Technology       Southern Alberta Institute of Technology      Alberta
Electronics Engineering Technology       Northern Alberta Institute of Technology       Alberta

Naval Electronics Technician (Sonar, Communications or Radar)

Electrical & Computer Engineering Technology    British Columbia Institute of Technology      British-Columbia
Marine Engineering Marine Institute,                 Memorial University Marine Engineering        Newfoundland & Labrador
Mechanic Génie mécanique de marine               Institut maritime du Québec                      Quebec






So?  What have your experiences been with this program?


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## George Wallace

As NCM SEP is not just for Navy occupations, here is some information (subject to change and update) as to what NCM SEP is:

The Canadian Forces
Non-Commissioned Member – Subsidized Education Plan
(NCM-SEP)


*The Canadian Forces Subsidized Technical College Education*

If you are interested in attending a technical college but are worried about the cost of tuition, we have a plan for you.

*Program Description* 

The Canadian Forces (CF) offers an entry program to provide college education and a salary for certain technician occupations. Selected applicants will receive the full cost of tuition, associated fees, books, and instruments. Starting salary is $31,020 with increases every year (i.e. $37,932 in 2nd year, $45,552 in 3rd year)*.

While studying, students receive the same benefits as other members of the CF including, annual leave, medical and dental benefits. It is also possible for students to join the subsidized education program while in their first or second year of studies. Graduates typically serve two months for each month of academic funding beginning on the date of college graduation.

* Salaries based on April 1, 2008 pay rates.

*Selection* 

This program is competitive and a limited number of applicants will be selected. You may apply for your new career through the nearest Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre or Detachment or on-line at Forces.ca.

In order to be eligible for this plan called the Non-Commissioned Member Subsidized Education Plan
(NCM-SEP), applicants must:

> Enrol in the CF into one of the professions on the NCM-SEP Occupation List; this list is
regularly updated so you will need to check with your local recruiter;

> Provide proof of unconditional acceptance into an approved post-secondary
institution and program applicable to the occupation selected;

> Successfully complete Basic Military Qualification Training either before
starting the full-time academic program or, in the event of conflicting schedules,
after the completion of the first year.


Please see your Recruiter for up-to-date and detailed information on selected programs and institutions,
salaries and benefits, and periods of required service.






What have your experiences been in these programs?"


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## MrJimi

Thanks to George for putting this information together, this thread will be a great tool for those of us in the NCM SEP.

   I personally have recently been sworn in at CFRC Toronto. My trade is NET (T). I begin my studies Monday Oct. 5 at RCC (Radio College of Canada). The program itself is the Electronics Engineering Technology Diploma Program. As I've already mentioned, the Program begins on Oct. 5 2009, and continues until graduation Sept. 16 2011. The duration of studies consists of 8 terms which run continuously. There is however, a two week break between terms and if not on vacation time, one could expect to help out at the CFRC or at a base near their college.

   This thread will be great to ask and answer questions pertaining to the NCM SEP Naval stream. Is anyone out there already a student and would like to share their experiences thus far?

   MrJimi


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## silverbirdtank

Thank you george,

This is all great information and I am really sold on a Naval Electronics Technician career but I think I will first take a Naval posting such as Marine Electrician, Sonar Operator or Naval Communicator so that I can ensure I enjoy the atmosphere before I engage in such a program. It will also prove benificial because I will require a physics class or two which I will have time to complete as I work in a navy environment.


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## FDO

You may want to rethink your plan. Remusters (occupation transfers) are NOT a sure thing. Usually you have to wait about 4 years in your trade then you can APPLY for a remuster. I've not heard of anyone doing NCMSEP while they are already serving. We have just readjusted the standards for NET. All you need now is a grade 10 (Ontario) General math and Science. This is a trial for the next little while so get it while you can. 

On the flip side you still have to qualify for the trade on CFAT.


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## MrJimi

FDO said:
			
		

> You may want to rethink your plan. Remusters (occupation transfers) are NOT a sure thing. Usually you have to wait about 4 years in your trade then you can APPLY for a remuster. I've not heard of anyone doing NCMSEP while they are already serving. We have just readjusted the standards for NET. All you need now is a grade 10 (Ontario) General math and Science. This is a trial for the next little while so get it while you can.
> 
> On the flip side you still have to qualify for the trade on CFAT.



There is a gentleman in my class who was a bosin (sp) in the reserves and was given the NCM-SEP transfer, however he is the only one out of about 40 students. 

My personal experience is going very well at RCC. I am in week 6 of term one and have nothing but positive feelings about my time at school thus far. The first month is hectic with clearing in, tuition and textbook reimbursement, housing, adjusting to school life. At the end of the day, it is a privilege to have school payed for and an automatic career to follow. 

What I have noticed however, is a handful of recruits don't seem too keen on consistent attendance or high grades, and it appears to me that those not putting in the 100% needed for success are going to be reminded that the NCM SEP is in fact a privilege and not high school. 

Some advice to those interested: if math is not your cup of tea, don't waste your time. 80% of the work is math related, and it gets heavy at times. Be prepared! If you plan on squeaking in with grade 10 math, upgrade, because we start where grade 12 advanced math left off. A lot of guys have struggled and are trying to catch up, and many are, but it's fast paced with 3-5 hours of homework a night.

I'm not trying to scare people, just sharing my experience so far as I'm now half way through the first term.

Mr Jimi


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## FDO

You might want to inform your fellow students that the ULO will be checking their attendance and marks. If they are not up to scratch they will find themselves looking for another way to pay for school. 

 Your Bos'n friend was a Reserve. He did what we call a "Component Transfer" That is very different from doing an occupation transfer.


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## MrJimi

FDO said:
			
		

> You might want to inform your fellow students that the ULO will be checking their attendance and marks. If they are not up to scratch they will find themselves looking for another way to pay for school.
> 
> Your Bos'n friend was a Reserve. He did what we call a "Component Transfer" That is very different from doing an occupation transfer.



The ULO was recently at our college, and the message was very clear. The expectations were laid out, and presented sternly. At the pace we move at, even one day of missed school sets you back greatly. The moral of the story for would-be candidates is to realize that attendance and academic success are positively correlated. 

Thanks for the clarification on the component transfer FDO.


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## Jethro

My son is heading to St John's next week to start his Marine Engineering course. Would anyone know how far the accomidations are from the MI Campus?


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## FDO

They are right on campus. Same as most other Universities


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## WestCoaster

Unless they've changed since I was there (almost 3 years now...), the main accommodations for the stokers and NE Techs were about a 5-10 minute drive from the MI campus, roughly half way between MI and the base. For those on IR (married), they were living in the singles quarters on base (building 530, I think?).  There were no accommodations near the college when I was there.


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## Tarsansia

Has this trial been approved yet? My understanding is that names of potential propects are being collected to determine the interest, then the decision on the trial will be made.  The specific academic entry standards of academic math and one science will be deferred.  But eventually before the NE course begins the applicant will receive the required courses so that the pre-requisites are met.


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## FDO

As it stands right now they have lowered the education standards for entry into the NET trade. It is now grade 10 general math or higher and grade physics or higher.  However, you must still score high enough on the CFAT. The reason we are tracking the applicants is to see if the lower standards are going to be acceptable for the trade.  Nothing has been deferred.


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## Jethro

Well my son has landed on the rock and was sworn in on Wed in HFX. They put the singles in a 2 bedroom apartment in a local  hotel. Easy living for the young one I would think. Since it was all rush rush, my son won't get basic traing til the spring/summer, so he's doing a mini boot camp, if you will, for the next two weeks then flying home for two weeks and then school starts.
Unfortanatley he's out of luck on getting a military flight home, so he's gonna have to buck up and pay his own way back. He seems very happy with all that's happened so far and seems to be embracing the military, guess that comes from growing up in a military town, eh?


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## Occam

Jethro said:
			
		

> Unfortanatley he's out of luck on getting a military flight home, so he's gonna have to buck up and pay his own way back.



Your son should be eligible for LTA (Leave Travel Assistance) to help defray costs associated with travel between his place of duty and the place of his next-of-kin (once per fiscal year, 1 Apr - 31 Mar).  There are other conditions, but it's worth inquiring about.  Where are you located?


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## Scooch

Hello, I recently graduated from the Electronics Engineering Technician course (at a civilian approved college.)

I never signed up for NCM-SEP but I was interested in becoming a NET.

I have talked to four different recruiters, three of them gave me different answers and one could not answer me.

The recruiter at my college said I would get a $10k signing bonus and promotion when I signed up (as per the job description on forces.ca.) I've talked to this recruiter twice and he said the same thing.

The recruiter at the closest recruiting centre said that those numbers from the college recruiter were wrong and I'd have to start where all the regular NCMs start. I've talked to this recruiter twice, and it was the same thing.

The recruiter that I met with on a ship when it passed through for tours said that I'd be reimbursed my tuition and possibly get a promotion.

So my question is what kind of incentives are there for graduates of one of these programs already? Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction so I won't have to keep getting the run around from these recruiters.


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## FDO

You MAY be entitled to a recruiting bonus. They are paid on completion of BMQ. If you have the education you get 10k if you have military skills in that trade you get 10k. If you have both you get 20k. 10k is paid on completion of BMQ and 10k on your one year mark.

What we do is we take all your diplomas and transcripts and send them to the Occupation Manager. They will decide what you get in the way of promotion and pay incentives. USUALLY if you come in with the same education that you would get if you went NCMSEP you would be enrolled as an Ordinary Seaman. After BMQ you NORMALLY get promoted to Leading Seaman and do trades training and environmental training. The CF will NOT reimburse your education. The 10k and promotion is to entice you to join. Once you are Tech qualified you will receive tech pay which is about $500 a month more that base pay.  

Note the key words. It all depends on the Occupation Manager and what he decides.


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## Scooch

Great thanks for the info FDO. I'll put in my application and hopefully the Occupation Manager is nice to me.

Thanks.


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## ZR2010

I currently have a Bachelor of Arts degree as well as an Electronic Engineering Technician diploma from NSCC.  Does anyone know in which trades I might qualify for a promotion after BMQ?  I want to join the military, but to be honest, having to start out as a private at roughly $30000/year is not much of an incentive.  I know the military isn't all about the money, and money is not the main reason I want to join, but my wife and I will be having a baby soon and I have to be realistic about this.  
   Any suggestions anyone?


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## ZR2010

I guess my previous post does not really belong in this topic.  I will create a new one.


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## Nickx89

Hi, posting this to hopefully get some information.  Thanks to anyone who replies!!

I am interested in applying to Algonquin College in Ottawa, for the Geomatics Technician program.  I would prefer not to do the basic training this summer but still start school in September.  Is that possible?  If so when should I apply and if I do apply now, is there a chance I do go to basic training this summer?  If so, when is the latest I could apply and still attend school in September.  Also, I have smoked pot recently and was wondering what the drug testing is like and when it does occur.  I have stopped smoking but it has only been a week.  Any information on this would be great and thanks again for any replies.

Nick


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## Otis

I REALLY hope this is a misguided April Fool's joke ...

For the record, I'm PRETTY sure there IS no NCM SEP for Geo Tech, and if you smoke pot a week before applying to the Forces (or even a month before) we're going to make you go away and come back to apply later (I can't remember if it's six months or a year).


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## MaDB0Y_021

Wait, what? You tell here in public that you smoked a blunt and wondering if you will get caught?

You're messed-up, man. Be serious about joining and stop taking that thing.

And good luck for your process... If it ain't a joke like the one above said it could be


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## Nickx89

Alright, first of all, yes the geomatics program is subsidized as I have already spoken with a recruiter.  About the pot, I didn't come here to be lectured on it.  I guess neither of the two posters read that I have stopped.  I am sure many members have smoked it at some point before they were enlisted.  I also never stated I would continue smoking.  I just want to know when the test is so I can apply soon and not fail the test.


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## Otis

OK Nick, I'm going to say this as politely as I can ...

I AM a Recruiter. In fact, I am the Recruiter that keeps the paperwork up to date for all of the OTHER recruiters at CFRC Toronto. 

I JUST finished updating the approved NCM-SEP course list last week, based on the March 2010 NCM SEP occupations list produced by CFRG (For anyone else who wants to know, Algonquin College and Conestoga have been added as approved programs for LCIS and ATIS) and if I were smarter I'd figure out how to attach it to this post ... but I'm not, so I can't. In any case ...

GEOMATICS TECHNICIAN does NOT have an approved NCM-SEP program. Maybe you've gotten the name of the trade wrong, maybe you've got the wrong program, maybe you've been talking to someone that wasn't actually a trained Recruiter or misunderstood something that's been told to you, but I guarantee we are not sending you to college if you join the CF as a Geo Tech.

As for your other rant, yes, I did read that you had stopped. I ALSO read where you said you smoked it RECENTLY. I did not lecture you about it in any way, I gave you the answer to your question ... if you come in, you tell us you smoked pot "recently" ... we're going to send you away for a set period of time.

You could lie and say you haven't, but we're going to find out, THEN you'll have a record for lying on your application to the CF.

Now, HERE's your lecture ... in the future, avoid bitching at the people trying to HELP you, or you won't GET any help after that ...


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## Nickx89

Ok, I may have been wrong however I do have a couple of links that I would like clarification on regarding this program.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pub/cfp-bpf/9-07/cfacpgtp-fccapcpt-eng.asp

http://www.algonquincollege.com/sat/cf/

If these are wrong, could you please let me know which programs they do offer at algonquin college?

Thanks for any info.


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## aesop081

Nickx89 said:
			
		

> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pub/cfp-bpf/9-07/cfacpgtp-fccapcpt-eng.asp



That page is from 2 years ago.


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## Nickx89

yes the first one is, with a 5 year contract however.  The second one is current from the college itself.


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## PMedMoe

I believe those programs are for people who remuster to Geo Tech, not for people enrolling. 

From Forces.ca:



> Applicants to the GEO TECH occupation must have completed Qualification Level 4 (or equivalent) in another military occupation or all apprenticeship requirements in a civilian trade.


From your first link:



> the CF can increase advanced *training for personnel already in the system*.


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## gszd55

On a related tangent to the original post, this is mainly directed to Otis, or anyone else in the know.  I'm curious about the details behind "...or all apprenticeship requirements in a civilian trade."

If an applicant already is a civilian geomatics specialist, does that statement mean he could qualify for direct entry to GEO TECH?  

In this instance  I'd assume,  probably naively, that beyond BMQ there is more army training eventually leading to geomatics training that would focus on context within the CF, on-the-job at the unit level.   Algonquin's geomatics program seems to cover CF-specific content that you could not get elsewhere, so I'm curious...


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## Nickx89

ah ok my bad, I apologize, thanks for clarifying that up!


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## Nickx89

Would you mind posting which programs are available at Algonquin College?

If so, thank you very much.


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## gcclarke

Nickx89 said:
			
		

> Would you mind posting which programs are available at Algonquin College?
> 
> If so, thank you very much.


Otis already did, just a little bit further up the page. Attention to detail is also highly prized within Her Majesty's Canadian Armed Forces.



			
				Otis said:
			
		

> I JUST finished updating the approved NCM-SEP course list last week, based on the March 2010 NCM SEP occupations list produced by CFRG* (For anyone else who wants to know, Algonquin College and Conestoga have been added as approved programs for LCIS and ATIS)* and if I were smarter I'd figure out how to attach it to this post ... but I'm not, so I can't. In any case ...


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## Occam

gcclarke said:
			
		

> Otis already did, just a little bit further up the page. Attention to detail is also highly prized within Her Majesty's Canadian Armed Forces.



I don't think that's what he asked.  He asked which NCM-SEP programs were available at Algonquin.

The answer to that would be ATIS Tech, LCIS Tech, EO Tech, NE Tech, NW Tech, Cook, Dental Assistant and Med Tech.


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## Nickx89

Thanks, I appreciate it.


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## Occam

No problem.  Bear in mind that list is from the 2009/2010 program, so there might be a change in the new FY.  Unlikely, but possible.  The new list isn't published on the DWAN yet.


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## athlon866

A strange scenario when I was doing medical questionnaire was that I was asked if, in the past year, I have had "tea".

I told medical officer I drink tea almost everyday. And he laughed and said, "It's a different tea."

So what does "tea" mean in the questionnaire??


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## PMedMoe

Cannabis tea?  Mushroom tea?  Meth is also called crystal tea.


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## Occam

athlon866 said:
			
		

> A strange scenario when I was doing medical questionnaire was that I was asked if, in the past year, I have had "tea".
> 
> I told medical officer I drink tea almost everyday. And he laughed and said, "It's a different tea."



If he thinks it's supposed to be a different tea, then I think he's mistaken.  There aren't supposed to be any trick questions on the medical.  If they want to know about your tea consumption, that's one thing.  If they want to know if you've been making tea from illicit substances, they should be spelling it out.


----------



## athlon866

I think they were referring to cannabis tea and mushroom tea. I told them I drink green tea and red rose, and they said those are not the ones they are concerned.


----------



## Heffalumps

Hello. 
I applied at the start of march 2010 and have done my apptitude test, medical and interview and then a few months after (on July 27) I got a call was told the DOE for VEH TECH was full but they would offer me a chance at the NCM-SEP VEH TEC all I had to do was apply to the two colleges and hand in an acceptance letter which I did this past friday (Aug 6) and was told I was merit lsited for the program which is suppose to start Sept. 7. 

I was just wondering if there is some kind of date on when merit lists get looked at and maybe picked or something just so I could have a better idea of a time line I have for preparing and planning because the college is a 9 hour drive one way from my current residence so I would need to find a place to live, and being able to give my current job of 6 years notice of such an event. 
I also ask this because I have already informed my bosses of the situation at hand and they were not to pleased with the idea of me giving them little to no warning if I was to quite and were a little upset with me about this even though I have kept them in the loop with my status checks since I applied early march so it wouldn't be a surprise if I did get in.

thank you for any help anyone is able to give me if any ;D


----------



## PMedMoe

Check in with your CFRC.


----------



## Heffalumps

I asked them a few days ago and I was told they were not sure, my papers had to be sent out to Ottawa or something where someone much higher ranked then corpal makes these kinds of decisions


----------



## aesop081

Heffalumps said:
			
		

> I asked them a few days ago and I was told they were not sure, my papers had to be sent out to Ottawa or something where someone much higher ranked then corpal makes these kinds of decisions



I can see your reasoning. If the CFRC doesnt know, anonymous strangers on the internet certainly will.


----------



## Heffalumps

oh come on your not an anonymous strangers now <3
I was just wondering if anyone on here might have some kind of inkling about this


----------



## aesop081

Heffalumps said:
			
		

> oh come on your not an anonymous strangers now <3
> I was just wondering if anyone on here might have some kind of inkling about this



My inkling is for you to call the CFRC in the morning. It is not that long a wait.


----------



## agc

You should check in often, as positions are going quickly.

There is more than one merit list.  Some of them are checked daily and others weekly or as needed.  It can take a little extra time for SEP selections sometimes.  When you talk to them ask if your BackCheck is done.


----------



## kincanucks

When I was in recruiting all selection decisions were made in Borden home of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters not in Ottawa as mentioned in this thread and many others.  The only decisions made in Ottawa were medically related as that is where the Recruiting Medical Officer was located.  Can a current recruiting person clarify this for me?


----------



## safetysOff

Necro thread but what would you like to know George?  I'm currently going through it.


----------



## safetysOff

I'll put a brief description of what I've done so far.  Joined two years ago.  Did my first year in my program then did basic.  Since then my school has ran straight through without any breaks lasting longer than 3 weeks, so I haven't been able to get loaded onto any further courses.  During these breaks you get 'job placements' at the nearest support area base doing ***** work.  Don't fail any courses or you get a meeting with the Captain in charge. I've heard you get in serious crap, may get kicked out, repay CF funding recieved, etc. if it happens.  Just don't fail pretty much will get you through.  I'm 7 months from being 'job ready', licensed, civi bonafide, etc. in my trade.


----------



## Occam

I didn't even know MRAD TECH was part of NCM-SEP.  Learned something new, I guess.


----------



## safetysOff

I could teach you many things young grasshopper  ;D


----------



## Occam

safetysOff said:
			
		

> I could teach you many things young grasshopper  ;D



Not too many...I think "young" went out the window when I got that first clasp to the CD...


----------



## Veiledal

Has anyone gone through NCM SEP by CTing from the reserves? Has anyone done it and can share their experiences.
I have applied to the available programs to college, been accepted, and put a CT in for LCIS. Ottawa e-mailed me telling me CTs were closed until March 31st. Went to the CFRC and they said they will not receive the list for which programs/trades will be subsidized until the CTs are open again, so was told to wait out. 
As well if you did do the NCM SEP from the reserves, did you stay with your home unit if you went to a local college until you finished your program?


----------



## turtlerace79

Hi,

I am curious about getting into an NCM SEP  program after initially applying for a couple of Naval Electronics Tech trades that have since filled up. The last recruiter I spoke to suggested I just go and apply for an acceptable trade school program and then show them my acceptance letter. Will the recruiting centre require me to reapply with the new NCM SEP entrance trade or can they just adjust my original application? 
Also, if I applied for the fall 2011 semester, is it reasonable to think that I could be offered acceptance into the military at this time of the year?
I hope these questions aren't too mundane... I am just so focused on my objective to get into the CF and I want to do everything right now, Ahhh! Thanks to anyone who replies. 
G.


----------



## agc

The Navy has a contract with the Marine Institute in St. John's.  You should be able to fill out an application for MI at the RC.  They should send it away for you, and take care of the college's application fee.  Studies at MI begin in January, so that would give you lots of time to get your processing out of the way and get BMQ done.


----------



## franciscorivera

*Turtlerace79*
How long has it been since you have applied to the previous NET trades that have filled up?
If your application is recent, then YES they can adjust your original application
The way it works is they will change your application status from "Unskilled" entry to "NCM SEP" entry
I know because I just had them adjust mine last month

*Agc*
I dont believe that was his question but it doesn't hurt to inform him of different paths to take
keep in mind, there are many other credited civilian colleges that he could choose from
The disciplines/diplomas can vary from school to school even though they are for the same occupation
Example- For NWT
You could choose
                     Electro-Mechanical Engineering at Marine Institute of Memorial University
                     Electronics Engineering at Seneca 

As for your last question. Correct me if I'm wrong
1. You receive an acceptance letter to college for the Fall 2011 semester 
2. You enroll for the Fall 2011 semester
3. Is it possible to receive a job offer from the CF as an NCM SEP applicant around the Fall 2011 semester?


----------



## turtlerace79

Hi again.

I appreciate the responses that have been posted as they have been pretty helpful. 

In response to Agc, you did clear up some confusion I had about the Marine Institute. I assumed that I would have to apply on my own to M.I.T. but I will probably head to the Recruiting Centre if I decide to go that route. I did apply to my local trade school that has an electronics program that the CF will accept for the NCM SEP program. And January seems like an ideal timeline for me, if the program I have applied to is full. 

To franciscorivera, I think you answred the main premise of my question. I initially submitted my application last April (2010) but I finally got a call in March 2011 to see if I was still interested. I told the recruiter that I definately was, and they began processing my app. I went in a few weeks later to see where my file was at, and they informed me that the trades I chose had since filled up but I could persue the NCM SEP if I got accepted into a post-secondary institution. So here I am, just waiting to hear back from my local school. 

So yeah, my last question was this: If I do get accepted to SAIT for the fall of 2011, will that be enough time for my file to be processed (including reference checks, interview, aptitude tests, etc.) so that I can be sworn in. I only ask this because the CF recruiting centre tends to  take many months to move things forward (in my case anyway). I don't mean to sound negative, I just want to know if it's a realistic timeline. 

Anyway, thanks for your time and I look forward to reading your reply.


----------



## franciscorivera

Is there anybody on here that is currently or recently attended the Marine Institute of Memorial University for:
Electro-Mechanical Engineering Technician diploma
Electronics Engineering Technician diploma

I would love to hear some feedback as this is the path that I have applied for


----------



## GSArora

So, I'm going into Grade 12 next year, and I'd like to get go through the NCM-SEP program if possible.
I emailed a recruiter, asking about programs and colleges, and he sent a really detailed reply about what the program was about.
However, there was no information on accredited programs for becoming an Avionics Technician. For all of the navy trades, he included a list of accredited college programs to go along with it. But for the land based ones, there was nothing.

I've found this while searching through the forums:
http://cfo-oafc.accc.ca/report_by_programmes.php

but that info doesnt match up with the info I got from the email, and it doesn't include any schools for avionics either.
Basically what I'm asking is, how can I become an Avionics Tech through the NCM-SEP.

I can upload the PDFs(or can I?) he sent me, if thats necessary.


----------



## 421_434_226

The colleges that currently have eligible 2 year (technician) and 3 year (technologist) programs is quite long, You could try emailing the contact centre again with an area of the country that you wish to study in and the specific occupation that you are interested in. The recruiters could then better advise you of the schools in that area. Keep in mind that the list may change as it is over a year away. You could also try the toll free number at the contact centre and speak directly to an online recruiter. 1-866-966-8718 between 8 and 4 eastern time.


----------



## Roos3

When I did my basic, we were a platoon of NCMSEPs and there were a few AVN/AVS techs. Most of them went to college in northern Ontario. I beleive the college was Canadore in North Bay. But I suppose that is only relevant depending on your location.


----------



## exgunnertdo

There is a complete list, but it's on the DWAN only. Might be on the internet side of the system, but I couldn't find it.  

The institutions for AVS are BCIT, NAIT, SAIT,  Canadore College, Centennial College and CÉGEP d’Édouard Montpetit - École nationale d'aérotechnique (ÉNA) from what I can see.


----------



## GSArora

Thanks for the quick replies. 
So I called the toll free recruitment center number, multiple times, but I can only leave voicemail.
I've emailed them again, and since they sent a quick reply last time, I'm hoping they'll do the same again.

My next question is:
My brother signed up for the reserves in about February of this year, and he hasn't recieved any word or email on anything. I'm worried this would happen if I signed up for the NCM-SEP, because well, waitings a b**** especially when its your future on the line. Assuming that my program at BCIT is acceptable, when would be the best time to sign up, and how long would it take them to contact me (or how long after should I follow up and call them)?

Thanks again.


----------



## luke_l

I did NCM-SEP as an AVS tech.  The list of institutions posted previously is correct, except you can scratch out NAIT, their program will be shut down as of this year.  It is a completely separate entry plan, you select it from day 1 at the recruiting centre, and it has a whole different set of recruiting numbers compared to the normal entry plan.  Your recruiting centre should be able to tell you the numbers for NCM-SEP vs regular entry plan.


----------



## GSArora

The email I recieved today lists the same schools that you just did, so thanks for that  :nod:
Also, what do you (@lobotomized_ncm) mean by recruiting numbers? 
This was also in the email:

"Unfortunately those occupations are not currently available for NCM-SEP at this time." ("Those" referring to AVS Tech, and Weapons Engineering Tech. which I had also asked about)

Do openings come regularly, or am I just screwed? I'm hoping to apply around October/November, and right now, it doesn't seem like Octobers that far off. Thats my last question(well, I'm pretty sure it is). Unfortunately the closest recruiting office is pretty far, and the phone always goes to voicemail, so these forums are the best place to find relevant info at the moment. 

Thanks again for the help


----------



## luke_l

There are recruiting targets for every trade, further divided into various entry plans.  As far as most NCM trades go, you don't have a lot of choice... the regular entry plan, and NCM-SEP (some specifics for various other trades...).  If they aren't taking NCM-SEP, that means most likely for the next year.  They may have more info at the recruiting centre about future years.  I know that when I went, we were the second year that NCM-SEP was offered for AVS.  I believe they then took a break for a few years, and then offered it for a couple more years.  As far as when to apply (remember, your mileage may vary..), but I applied in January and started school that September.  Keep checking, they may open it up a little bit later in the year, maybe someone who knows the timeline better than me may have a better answer.


----------



## Bam_dice

Is there a possible way for me as a boatswain to take marine engineering somewhere else besides the marine institute?


----------



## Richard.Donafeld

Hey Jimi I was going through the NCM-sep thread and realized the ex-reserve bosn was me have not seen you out here East yet. And yes what I did complete was a compent transfer when switching into the NCM-Sep program although it is not as hard as getting an occupational transfer. It still took 6 months and I was hounding almost every day for some it can be upwards of a year. Besides just getting into the program I strongly recommend it, as it is a very good go and after completing college you receive your acting lacking LS which is alright for most who have never been on a ship before.


----------



## Richard.Donafeld

Hey I did do the NCM-SEP program from the reserves my CT took me a little over 6 months mind you I did mine in 2009. When I went to college you do not stay with your reserve unit I left HMCS Star and became apart of ASU-Toronto. I understand its much later in the year, I hope your CT got started or maybe even went through. Good luck in your studies.


----------



## Crowell85

Hey, I just have a quick question.. If I joined as an NCM-SEP, and then after my program was over I decided that I didn't want to continue as a member of the Forces. I would be responsible to pay back my tuition plus my pay while I was in school correct?


----------



## GeorgeD

Everything, Tuition, pay, PLD if you receive any, also I believe any other benefits you get(move cost, dental medical) not too sure about those but pay, tuition, PLD and books for sure. We had one guy quit around the 1 year mark and he owed over $80,000.


If you are not sure, don't waste your time and effort, and don't waste the CF's resources because if you decide to quit you have to pay back that money within I believe 10 years.


----------



## Crowell85

Thanks for your reply! I've also heard that there is a 6 month period from when you sign that you are able to get out of your contract if you find the CF is not for you. Is there any truth to this? Or is this all just stupid rumours..


----------



## GeorgeD

It is 6months before you acquire obligatory service if your in the Army and Air Force, but if you are in the Navy navy its a year. But again, if you are not sure, don't even try as the release is time consuming but also you release in a manner that might restrict your future decisions if you ever wanted back in to the CF.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Just my opinion here but generally the first two queries at a job interview are "What is your education and what is your experience?" These various CF programs give you both at a relatively early point in your life. 
Every job will have its drawbacks but if you do find the perfect job with no negative attributes, post it here-There will be an avalanche of applicants!


----------



## Crowell85

What do you mean when you say " acquire obligatory service".. Sorry, I'm a little new at this..


----------



## dapaterson

Crowell85 said:
			
		

> What do you mean when you say " acquire obligatory service".. Sorry, I'm a little new at this..



When the CF pays for certain types of training and education, you are required to serve for a certain length of time after you complete that training so the CF can ensure a return on its investment.  That period of time is referred to as "obligatory service".


----------



## Crowell85

So if you were to go Amy or Airforce you have 6 months where you can be in before you HAVE to serve your full commitment, and 1 year with the Navy? Is that what that means?


----------



## dapaterson

No.  Let's say you are paid by the military for two years to attend technical college.  After you graduate, you will be required to continue serving for 4 years (all figures approximate).  That 4 years where you have to serve is called "obligatory service".


----------



## GeorgeD

dataperson, from what the ULO was telling us, you don't acquire obligatory service before 6 months, at the 6 month mark you acquire obligatory service and cannot quit without paying back every cent. For the Navy its one year, but what they told us is that people who try to abuse the system end up paying weather they like to or not.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Crowell85:
I am not sure what GD is getting at either.
We used to call it (in days of old when the name also described the terms of service!), an FPS (Fixed Period of Service) and dapaterson has explained how that works - You owe a year for every year of education essentially.

I joined under one of these programs in 1982 on a 6 year FPS. Once classes started 4 months after joining, I was hooked. I am not sure what this 6 month - one year thing is unless it is a new policy to entice applicants.

I'll say it again though, not only is it free but you are paid to get an education AND experience - Win, win all around...and you may actually decide you like it and 'hang around' for a little more like people like me have done!!


----------



## dapaterson

There may be an initial window where oblig service does not accrue - one last chance to be a quitter.  I'm not sure; I'm not in subsidized education management.

But I will observe that when you go into something already looking for the way out it doesn't bode well...


----------



## GeorgeD

dataperson, I completely agree with you my personal advice to Crowell85 is not to even waste the CFs time and money nor his time. The thing is that even if you join and thing your smart enough to quit before the deadline the CF owns you, and can hold you after the 6 months or 1 year because contract was signed.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Actually, I thought about this on the walk from work last night (Don't ask why!). NCM SEP is a unique program. It assumes an individual is already enrolled in a program and paying out of their own pocket. As an example, someone in their second year of say a MechEng Diploma Program at College applies to the CF. I am not entirely sure how it all works and could not find specifics after a search through the internet as well as the DIN but once this individual is enrolled, obviously if he/she decides midway into third year that they want 'out', they will not be paying back all tuition etc. Even then though, 1 years worth of salary, tuition, books etc even through a College is alot of bucks. 
Maybe someone within recruiting can answer this one. I did call someone over at DMTE (Director Maritime Training and Education) but after last summers restructuring, all the stuff they used to do wrt to PLARS etc has been delegated down to the individual TEs.


----------



## VanIslandNWThopefull

This thread is relatively dead so I figured for anyone interested I'd share my experience thus far as an NCM SEP.  I browsed this forum countless times during my recruitment process and happen to be one of the lucky ones who made it.  As an update for George Wallance and others that may be local, North Island College in Campbell River BC also qualifies for the SEP Program.  

The old saying the squeaky wheel gets the oil cannot be more true when it comes to recruitment.  I didn't actually have the math requirements to enter into the program due to my "honey badger" attitude towards it in high school.  Not letting that deter me I contacted my “instructor to be"  and had a good BS with him, by the end of the conversation I was offered an unconditional acceptance to the program.  However, I did have to sign a performance waiver.  Moral of the story is if you want it, don't stop until you get it.  

I got my call last spring which was slightly too late for me to do basic.  I swore in on Sept 1st and started my first day of class on the 6th.  I was extremely nervous and by the end of the second week I was second guessing my choice in life and wanted to run.  I stuck through it and slowly started getting more comfortable with the learning material and schedule.  It is very math intensive, nothing a math tutor and hard work can't fix.  I passed my math course with 93%.  We learned DC theory, AC theory, Semi-conductors, Op. Amps, Mirco-proccessing, Vex robotics...etc.  It was a challenging yet rewarding time; I met a lot of good people and thoroughly enjoyed the course.

I ended up passing first year with a 94% average and will be working at the marine base in Comox B.C. over the summer.  I assume i'll be doing general duties which I welcome to give my brain a bit of a break.  I start my second year course, Industrial Automation, which deals with process control and analysis, fluid hydraulics, pneumatic air control...etc.  After second year I will be sent to Monreal for basic, then Halifax for NETP. 

I hope this helps someone in their journey, if there are any questions feel free to get a hold of me.  

WENGTECH


----------



## philippe_heb

Thanks for your post! 

Actually I have my first year of a Electronics Engineering Technician program completed and I'll be officially merit listed in the coming days for NCM-SEP! So I have to wait until August for selections.

The captain told me that my file was competitive and that my chances were very good. I can't wait!! I to excited!!

ATIS was my 1st choice
2- W Eng tech (NCM-SEP)
3- EO tech (NCM-SEP)

If (If!!) they offer me both of ATIS and W Eng tech, I don't know which one I'll take... NAVY or AIR FORCE  :-\


----------



## philippe_heb

Oh and I forgot! In Quebec (Cegep de Sherbrooke), we have 13 weeks of vacations during the summer and the QMB is a 14 weeks program...

I'm certainly not the first one who did NCM-SEP in Quebec so, do you know if we can do it at the end of our 3 years of college?

Thank you


----------



## philippe_heb

Hi everyone,

Do you know if we can a a part time job during NCM-SEP ?


----------



## agc

That would be a question for your chain of command  But why would you want to?  You would already be making a lot more from your salary.


----------



## GeorgeD

philipp said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> 
> Do you know if we can a a part time job during NCM-SEP ?



From what I know, a part-time job while in NCMSEP is possible but it depends on your marks meaning that you will not get approval for part-time job if you are struggling in school. Also as you will be making a nice salary it might not be worth it to get a part-time job.


----------



## philippe_heb

Thanks for your reply,

I'm actually full-time in college (electronic engineering, telecom) and I have a 85% average. My step-mother own a hotel and I do some maintenance on the weekend (give me a clean 650$/month). It's not the end of the world if I stop, but I make this for 1 year and I was able to maintain a good average. Like you said, that would be a question for my chain of command ! Plus, I'm just merit listed, but I want to be prepared   

Hope to be ATIS like you GD!


----------



## GeorgeD

Well good luck with that and I hope all goes well for you.


----------



## triplesevenscc

I am wondering if anyone did the NCM SEP program that OT into their trade. I am currently going to be applying to OT Marine Engineer but need to decide if I want to apply for the NCM SEP program and go to the marine institute in St. John's. I am currently an Artillery soldier and the BPSO said I have a really high CFAT score and could go for my commission but I'm not interested in that. 

The question I have is has anyone OT into this who is married? I am posted here in Shilo, MB and would not want to leave my family here well attending school for 2 years. 

Also I have already done BMQ so what other training would I need to do besides program at MI?

Do people in the NCM SEP program in St John's get PLD? The only reason I ask is right now I get $306 LDA and would lose that leaving a field unit so the $149 PLD would cushion our loss. I could get by without it but it would be nice.


----------



## parina453

Hey guys im part of the reserves and I want to get into the SEP program either for MRAD tech or a MED tech and start school at september 2013. My question is what are certain actions that i need to do so i can go to school by next school year. I know i need to do a CT to the regs but ive done a lot of research and found out that a ct can take a very long time. Any help and info is very much appreciated. And if theres anyone that already went to the same process can you share me your experience and actions taken. thanks


----------



## mariomike

"So my question is how long does a CT for NCM-SEP take (approximately) and would I have enough time to get in before the school restarts?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12797/post-1103960.html#msg1103960
Reply #514.

"Has anyone gone through NCM SEP by CTing from the reserves?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89568/post-1015995.html#msg1015995

"For the NCM-SEP, individuals may be accepted as civilian applicants joining the Regular Force, as serving Regular Force NCMs through voluntary occupation transfers, or as component transfers from the Reserve Force.":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101843.0

Some discussion of NCM SEP Paramedic programs here.
"Today I received an e-mail from the CFNRCC, and it was regarding NCM-SEP because Med Tech is an open trade at the present time.":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/104474.0

I hope these help. There are lots of other SEP discussions.


----------



## parina453

hey guys, im already a reservist and i want to do the sep for mrad tech. I know i need to do a ct but my question is where do i give in my unconditional acceptance from a college and how do i know even if that certain sep programs are open and available


----------



## mariomike

parina453 said:
			
		

> my question is where do i give in my unconditional acceptance from a college and how do i know even if that certain sep programs are open and available



"Your application to NCM SEP does not guarantee a spot in an accredited program at a Canadian college. We strongly suggest that you apply to an accredited program through the college of your choice at the same time as you apply to NCM SEP."


----------



## parina453

where and how do i apply to the ncm sep program if im already a reservist. I know i need to do a ct and since ima reservist cfrc told me that they cant really help me


----------



## mariomike

parina453 said:
			
		

> where and how do i apply to the ncm sep program if im already a reservist. I know i need to do a ct and since ima reservist cfrc told me that they cant really help me



Have you applied to an accredited program through the college of your choice? 

That is what the Recruiting website "strongly" suggests.


----------



## cfournier

safetysOff said:
			
		

> Necro thread but what would you like to know George?  I'm currently going through it.



I'm currently in the application process for NCM SEP in hopes of becoming a MED TECH. I've already applied to my accredited colleges and to the Forces, just waiting for my backcheck now. I was just wondering, how long did it typically take before you found out if you were accepted to NCM SEP? Was it long after you were accepted to your accredited college?


----------



## GeorgeD

I believe you have to get accepted to a college in question before they move forward with the application. Basically apply to the CF and get the application as far as possible and wait out for the acceptance letter and once it is in send it to the CFRC that is dealing with your application and then they should proceed with the application.


----------



## ch277

I have been in the forces for a number of years now, in an occupation that has been both challenging and rewarding. Now that the operational tempo has slowed down quite a bit, I am looking at some of the programs available to us NCM. One program that is looking rather interesting is the NCM SEP. To be honest, some of the medical related trades (x-ray or lab technician) seem very interesting. Has anyone been in these programs recently? How was your experience from the day you sent your memo up the CoC to wherever you are at today? Thanks. - Chimo.


----------



## luke_l

I joined originally under NCM-SEP.  There were four of us in our two year college program; two off the street, and two remusters (one with 7 and the other with about 13 years in).  What I can say about NCM-SEP is this... Remember that you are essentially leaving the CF for one to two years and transplanting yourself into a civilian educational institution.  Now, you don't have your trade listed in your profile, so I don't know what part of the CF you come from.  What I can say about the two remuster guys was that they had a difficult adjustment at the start.  The CF conducts training in a certain way; most colleges are quite different from that.

If you can handle classmates coming in late and falling asleep at their desk without your head exploding, then you will be fine... Personally, I prefer the civilian style of learning to the military way, and would choose to attend a civilian institution over a military one any day (assuming equal educational outcomes), and highly recommend the "break" from the military.  If, however, you are of the "head exploding" variety, maybe stick to the DND route


----------



## GoTraffic

I'm hoping someone who has gone through an OT with the NCM SEP program can answer a quick question for me.  As I understand it, for everyone one month of paid schooling, you accrue two months of oblig service.  Does anyone know when that obligatory service would start?
A little background info, OT with the NCM SEP program, graduated college but posted to the BTL waiting to complete training (must go for some PO's that are not taught in civi college).  They keep bumping course dates.

I guess what I'm really asking is: Does this time count toward obligatory service, or does one have to be fully QL3 qualified before it counts?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide!


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## DAA

GoTraffic said:
			
		

> I'm hoping someone who has gone through an OT with the NCM SEP program can answer a quick question for me.  As I understand it, for everyone one month of paid schooling, you accrue two months of oblig service.  Does anyone know when that obligatory service would start?
> A little background info, OT with the NCM SEP program, graduated college but posted to the BTL waiting to complete training (must go for some PO's that are not taught in civi college).  They keep bumping course dates.
> 
> I guess what I'm really asking is: Does this time count toward obligatory service, or does one have to be fully QL3 qualified before it counts?
> 
> Thanks for any assistance you can provide!



Not sure if obligatory service is the proper term.  However, if you applied for and accepted a VOT, then you will be subject to an RRD/P (Restricted Release Date/Period) which will NOT be less than 36 months after reaching OFP in the new occupation (ie; after completion of QL3).  And YES, you did sign a paper acknowledging the RRD!!!


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## GoTraffic

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I do have obligatory service, because I accepted a VOT through the NCM SEP program. Basically, they paid my tuition and salary to go do a two year diploma. The obligatory service I acrrued is two months owed time for every one month I attended school up to a maximum of 60 months.
I did get the answer I was looking for today though, after some digging around.  In case anyone has a similar question in the future, your obligatory service starts once you've graduated from the college course.


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## ModlrMike

As an aside, I also seem to recall that you can't incur more obligatory service whilst still serving on obligatory service. For example if you were to apply to a post graduate programme while you were still "paying off" your initial round of obligatory service, you probably wouldn't be accepted.


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## Canuck_55555

Would I be able to apply to NCM-STEP if I wanted to pursue a career as a artillery soldier?


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## Cwes

Canuck_55555 said:
			
		

> Would I be able to apply to NCM-STEP if I wanted to pursue a career as a artillery soldier?



No, it is only available to specified trades. The recruiting website should list whether a trade is available for the entry-plan.


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## Canuck_55555

How would I be able to get a education plan and be an artillery soldier (not under ROTP)?


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## Cwes

Canuck_55555 said:
			
		

> How would I be able to get a education plan and be an artillery soldier (not under ROTP)?



The only way to do that as an NCM without an education program is to enroll in the trade, make it to the unit and put in a memo for ILPs (individual learning plan).

I recommend Athabasca University, they have a really good online curriculum and will work with you in terms of catering to exercises and deployments.


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## PuckChaser

Canuck_55555 said:
			
		

> How would I be able to get a education plan and be an artillery soldier (not under ROTP)?


Join the reserves. You get $2000 a year to go to post secondary school up to $8000 max. That's the only way you're going to do it.


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## Cwes

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Join the reserves. You get $2000 a year to go to post secondary school up to $8000 max. That's the only way you're going to do it.



That certainly is a good method. But with ILP's he has access to 40,000 dollars. He just has to work harder.

Reserves is definitely not a bad option though. He won't face the monotony and burnout.


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## Cwes

Canuck_55555 said:
			
		

> What is ILP? I can’t get a good answer off of the internet. And also, after I am done university (if I go with the reserve plan) can I just go straight to regular force?
> Thank you for your help.



I have heard varied anecdotes on people's experience entering the regular force through the reserves. I am unfamiliar with the process and any one persons experience may not reflect yours.


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## PuckChaser

Canuck_55555 said:
			
		

> What is ILP? I can’t get a good answer off of the internet. And also, after I am done university (if I go with the reserve plan) can I just go straight to regular force?
> Thank you for your help.


 You would apply for a component transfer and wait in line. Could take 6 months, could take 3 years. It depends on the trade.


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## Canuck_55555

Thanks for all the help!


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## da1root

Couple notes.



			
				Cwes said:
			
		

> That certainly is a good method. But with ILP's he has access to 40,000 dollars. He just has to work harder.
> 
> Reserves is definitely not a bad option though. He won't face the monotony and burnout.


40,000?? What education plan is that?  I'm not aware of an education plan in the CAF that gives you access to $40,000.

Also to clarify on the Education Reimbursement Plan for Reservists.  It is not automatic, you must apply for it (it's done through the ILP - Individual Learning Plan and will be reviewed by CDA Kingston).  You must be completed Basic Training, you cannot go Non-effective strength during the year and you can't be on exempt drill and training in the year either.  The way the policy is written is that the education that you're applying for must be related to your current occupation in the CAF; or a future occupation that you would like to be in the CAF; if it does not translate to an occupation in the CAF it will not approved (and I've seen people turned down).  If approved you are eligible to 50% of tuition/books/tutoring fee's/etc to a maximum of $2,000/year to a career max of $8,000 - that means that if you only spend $2,000 in a year; you will only receive $1,000 in education reimbursement.


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## Cwes

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> Couple notes.
> 40,000?? What education plan is that?  I'm not aware of an education plan in the CAF that gives you access to $40,000.




https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/guide/programs-canadian-forces/er.html

Note 1:
Defence Administrative Orders and Directives (DAOD) 5031-5, 5031-6, Compensation and Benefit Instructions (CBI) 210.80, 210.801, 210.802, Canadian Forces (CF) Military Personnel Instruction 17-04, CANFORGEN 136/04

Note 2:
Education Reimbursement for the Regular Force (ER Reg) – Eligible members may apply to be reimbursed 100% tuition and other eligible education upgrading related expenses for courses leading to a university or college degree, diploma, or certificate. This program applies to Regular Force members participating in part-time study.


A degree usually costing roughly 40,000 dollars after supplies.

Many of my Reg Force superiors, NCO's and Officers included informed me and directed me to this source. 

If I read that wrong, I'd love to be educated on it as to not lead myself or other astray. Also if I am wrong, perhaps ammendment is in order for clarity.


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## Cwes

[


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## da1root

Cwes said:
			
		

> https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/guide/programs-canadian-forces/er.html
> 
> Note 1:
> Defence Administrative Orders and Directives (DAOD) 5031-5, 5031-6, Compensation and Benefit Instructions (CBI) 210.80, 210.801, 210.802, Canadian Forces (CF) Military Personnel Instruction 17-04, CANFORGEN 136/04
> 
> Note 2:
> Education Reimbursement for the Regular Force (ER Reg) – Eligible members may apply to be reimbursed 100% tuition and other eligible education upgrading related expenses for courses leading to a university or college degree, diploma, or certificate. This program applies to Regular Force members participating in part-time study.
> 
> 
> A degree usually costing roughly 40,000 dollars after supplies.
> 
> Many of my Reg Force superiors, NCO's and Officers included informed me and directed me to this source.
> 
> If I read that wrong, I'd love to be educated on it as to not lead myself or other astray. Also if I am wrong, perhaps ammendment is in order for clarity.



Please note that there is no cap on the Regular Force plan; which is why stating that there is a plan giving you access to $40,000 is misleading.  The Regular Force Education Reimbursement Plan reimburses for actual costs incurred.  With tuition and books I didn't spend $40,000 on my University Degree (especially considering the majority of my courses for Criminology & Law didn't require textbooks; most of it was made available online through the instructor); so in my case I would not have had access to $40,000 - this is why the statement is misleading.

If you read the DOAD the only mention of an actual dollar amount is the Primary Reserve plan.  I hope this provides clarity on my statement.  

The proper statement would be that a Regular Force member has access to funds that would pay for their degree (if approved); with no maximum amount specified.


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## Cwes

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> Please note that there is no cap on the Regular Force plan; which is why stating that there is a plan giving you access to $40,000 is misleading.  The Regular Force Education Reimbursement Plan reimburses for actual costs incurred.  With tuition and books I didn't spend $40,000 on my University Degree (especially considering the majority of my courses for Criminology & Law didn't require textbooks; most of it was made available online through the instructor); so in my case I would not have had access to $40,000 - this is why the statement is misleading.
> 
> If you read the DOAD the only mention of an actual dollar amount is the Primary Reserve plan.  I hope this provides clarity on my statement.
> 
> The proper statement would be that a Regular Force member has access to funds that would pay for their degree (if approved); with no maximum amount specified.



Very helpful. Thank you.

I had made the mistake of assuming that those who told me that information had discussed funding limits with a BPSO.


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## oxemilyxo

Hey everyone! I have recently accepted an offer for NCM STEP Dental Tech!  I will be attending school away from my primary residence where my spouse is currently posted. I’m wondering if any others that have enrolled this way had been entitled to benefits such as separation pay or had their accommodations paid for?


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