# Aftermarket Kit



## tim_chi (26 Jan 2006)

Hey all,

I know that a lot of kit gets discussed in this forum, and that there are a lot of people who own a whole lot of kit. I was just wondering if we've even allowed to bring our own ballistic armour and our own load bearing kit. I was talking to Martin from Dave's Surplus, and he says that he had HSGI make up some Weesatchs and others in CADPAT for CDN soldiers going over to Astan. It's just that I haven't actually seen any soldiers in ANY pictures wearing anything other than the issued TV. Is there a reason why? Promo shots with only issue kit? Different units and different RSM's?

A sgt at my unit has his own Diamond Back plate carrier with multi-hit plates. Are we allowed to bring those overseas? Thanks!

And I know, I'm just a reserve Pte., but I was just wondering and looked around the forums, but still couldn't find a definite answer. So I guess I'm mostly referring to aftermarket armour, like PSP or CPC, and aftermarket load bearing/plate carriers, like Eagle or Diamond Back.

Thanks again.

God Bless

Tim Chi


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jan 2006)

Chest rigs most then likely, add on stuff to your mags and rifle (as long as it doesn't interfere with the mechanics).  Armour I not so sure about.  Even the Americans are getting flake for some of the aftermarket armour.  This is operational stuff not the domestic exercises.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jan 2006)

p.s. I'm not so sure about rifle scopes either.


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## tim_chi (27 Jan 2006)

Thanks CFL. I know that back up iron sights are ok. I hear that the EOTech's aren't too bad, aside from the fact that they are prone to failure. Thanks anyhow!

God Bless

Tim Chi


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## 1feral1 (27 Jan 2006)

tim_chi said:
			
		

> And I know, I'm just a reserve Pte



Mate, never EVER sell yourself or fellow Reserves short. The term "just" does does not cut it with me. You're a part of the team, irregardless of rank, MOC or component.

Wes


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## MG34 (27 Jan 2006)

tim_chi said:
			
		

> Thanks CFL. I know that back up iron sights are ok. I hear that the EOTech's aren't too bad, aside from the fact that they are prone to failure. Thanks anyhow!
> 
> God Bless
> 
> Tim Chi



BUIS are a must as any optic will fail,who ever told you that the EOTech is prone to failure is mistaken,they are an excellent piece of kit when used properly.


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## MikeL (27 Jan 2006)

tim_chi said:
			
		

> Thanks CFL. I know that back up iron sights are ok. I hear that the EOTech's aren't too bad, aside from the fact that they are prone to failure. Thanks anyhow!
> 
> God Bless
> 
> Tim Chi



I've never heard anything bad about EOTechs, everyone I've talked to loves them.


Anyways, the back up iron sights are issued, so you shoulden't have to buy one.


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## kyleg (28 Jan 2006)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Mate, never EVER sell yourself or fellow Reserves short. The term "just" does does not cut it with me. You're a part of the team, irregardless of rank, MOC or component.
> 
> Wes



Irregardless isn't a word ;D :warstory:


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## COBRA-6 (28 Jan 2006)

MikeL said:
			
		

> Anyways, the back up iron sights are issued, so you shoulden't have to buy one.



Unless you want a quality one...


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## tim_chi (28 Jan 2006)

I said that i was "just" a reservist because people tend to poo poo reservists on here and tend to bash reservists because "they aren't real soldiers" or w/e. 

Thanks for all the input. I guess as an extension on this, does anyone know if we're allowed to "upgrade" our helmets? I find that the issued helmet suspension system really sucks and the Oregon Aero BLU system looks mighty tempting. I'm interested in kit because, i don't intend on quitting the army anytime soon, and I'd love to go overseas as soon as I'm done school. Thanks again.

God Bless

Tim Chi


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## MikeL (28 Jan 2006)

Chi, if you wanna know if you will be allowed to wear the BLU suspension, talk to your Section Commander or something. Each unit is different.


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## Prd_Cdn (28 Jan 2006)

Chi
  Talk to your Tpt NCO, hes a good man. He can tell you about all the after market kit you want. I know I was on course with him this past summer on the Patrol Commanders course in Gagetown and then taught DP2 in Wainwright with him. 

  I know in my unit here we were fairly strict on kit, until we went recce. It differs from base to base and unit to unit. 

  Just my 2 cents remember what ever kit you decide to use, a tasking or course you go on may not allow it, so make sure you can convert your issued kit back to CF issue.

  Honestly, if a Sgt wants to purchase ballistic plates his choice. Though I cannot see any practical use during training in the CF the need to use ballistic armour. Use the kit you were issued, see what works and what doesnt. Then decide if you need something better, why waste your money on something that is useless to you other than the LCF (Look Cool Factor).  
 :warstory:
 :bullet:


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## NL_engineer (28 Jan 2006)

Prd_Cdn said:
			
		

> Honestly, if a Sgt wants to purchase ballistic plates his choice. Though I cannot see any practical use during training in the CF the need to use ballistic armour. Use the kit you were issued, see what works and what doesnt. Then decide if you need something better, why waste your money on something that is useless to you other than the LCF (Look Cool Factor).



Probably a strong believer in train as you fight. If he/she is planing to on tour at least he/she won't have to adjust too the weight of the plates during work up.


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## Prd_Cdn (29 Jan 2006)

Train as you fight? right! Then would we not be issued Ballistic Plates to train with? 

I agree with being prepared for overseas duty. Though the original post was the Sgt bought them to use during training. If the Sgt was going overseas he would be on work up and NOT conducting regular training with his unit. The time for work up allows for the adjustment with ballistic plates.


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## Matt_Fisher (29 Jan 2006)

Prd_Cdn said:
			
		

> Honestly, if a Sgt wants to purchase ballistic plates his choice. Though I cannot see any practical use during training in the CF the need to use ballistic armour. Use the kit you were issued, see what works and what doesnt. Then decide if you need something better, why waste your money on something that is useless to you other than the LCF (Look Cool Factor).
> :warstory:
> :bullet:





			
				Prd_Cdn said:
			
		

> Train as you fight? right! Then would we not be issued Ballistic Plates to train with?



I know this certain Sgt. personally and attest that he's one of the most professional soldiers I have ever met, regular or reserve.  He is a firm believer in train as you fight, which is why he went and sought out the plate carrier and ballistic plates on his own to make up for a broken acquisition system that doesn't filter equipment down to non-deploying pers.  
He is also into competitive police/tactical shooting matches on the side and uses the ballistic plates for increased range safety.  
It is definitely not for a 'look cool factor' as to why he got them.

It's standard in pretty much all Marine units (including mine) for troops to run their SAPIs at all times to become accustomed to the extra weight and bulk of their body armor setups.  The CFs have supposedly purchased training plates (orange in colour) for use with the ballistic armour, so I wouldn't be suprised that one day, as the new armour filters its way down, for the CFs to adopt an SOP where ballistic armour and plates (training) are worn for all field ex's.


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## Scoobie Newbie (29 Jan 2006)

Matt they do have them (I've seen them at QM with my own eyes).  How they are distributed is another matter entirely though.


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## tim_chi (30 Jan 2006)

Is it possible to buy these pseudo plates? I was looking into getting a CIRAS with real plates, but the price is just.. well.. for a res private it's insane. I'd like to be able to train with all my gear on. I go for runs with stuff crammed into my tacvest and I was looking for something to simulate plates. Any help would be great. Thanks!

God Bless

Tim Chi


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## Matt_Fisher (30 Jan 2006)

Tim,

I've heard that there are 'simulated' plates available through some airsoft companies which are essentially hollow plastic moulds of the US SAPI plate, which then can be filled with sand or concrete to simulate the weight.  Unfortunately I don't have any leads for where you can get them, but I suspect if you browse through some airsoft online forums or retailers, you'll find them.


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## KevinB (30 Jan 2006)

FWIW the CF only got enough PBA system to equipt the regs.

I beleive that the reserves will get cast of PASGT vests and a PSP plate carrier (no MOLLE system) for training.

The CF requires pers doing live ifre kill house shoots to wear plates.


Tim - if I'd read this two weeks ago I would have sent you a set of LIV Stand Alone plates for free - I ended up donating them as front plates for an over vest to two Ottawa cops I know 

Now I just need to get Matt to design me the plate carrier (front only) for them (yeah more work for you and the others Matt  )


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## Matt_Fisher (30 Jan 2006)

Kevin,

Hobey and I are all about work...keep it coming.   ;D

We're putting the final touches on a modular plate carrier design as we speak for a SWAT LEO down in Colorado.  Once we get it perfected, we'll be doing a CADPAT version in both temperate and arid patterns.


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## tim_chi (30 Jan 2006)

What do you guys think of buying armour through e-bay? Safe idea? Or a no go?

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Multi-Hits-Body-Armor-SAPI-Ceramic-Plates_W0QQitemZ6592944388QQcategoryZ112475QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I was thinking of maybe picking up the CIRAS or an el-cheapo stand in for now... but maybe I'll wait for your ICE plate carrier...

And just wondering... what WOULD a Crye Precision Armour Chassis cost someone? I know... a LOT... and you need proper ID and stuff... but still... just wondering.

God Bless

Tim Chi


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## Matt_Fisher (30 Jan 2006)

Tim,

I'd be wary of buying stuff on ebay, as alot of the stuff on there is cheap asian airsoft knock-off, ie. PROUD Tactical CIRAS'.  They look very similar to the Eagle or Paraclete stuff, but the quality of stitching, thread, materials is not up to spec for professional use.

The Crye stuff isn't available for individual purchase yet, but I'd heard through the grapevine that it'd run you around $3500US with the proprietary Crye plates.  Without plates (you supply your own and use the Crye SAPI carrier setup), it's around $1700US.


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## tim_chi (30 Jan 2006)

Do you think the PROUD stuff or knock-off carriers will be able to handle 6lb fake plates? I found the replica plates you were talking about, and found that you can put sand in them. But if the fake carriers will just fall apart, might as well invest in a real plate carrier and use fake plates. Opinions? Ideas? 

If a fake rig costs 200+, I might as well make the investment since I'll need it later anyhow... but that's at least a year or so off... Hmm...

The Crye stuff looks SOOO sexy. Wow... talk about LCF eh? Matt.. once again, any ideas on the cost of the armoured belt?

BTW - if I'm 5 ft 9 in... a medium sized rig would be ok for me correct?

Thanks again.

God Bless

Tim Chi


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## PhilB (31 Jan 2006)

This is somewhat of a thread steal, but its still aftermarket. Matt I was reading on LF about the ICE TAC Hydro yoke i believe it's called. Unfortunatly the internet connection on the welfare computers here is so painfully slow that I cant download the ICE Tac catalouge. Could you post a pic here? Also does it use 1.5" buckles, I ask becasue I run a MAV. Thanks for any help


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## Scoobie Newbie (31 Jan 2006)

Sorry.  Couldn't figure away to copy a pic of the site.


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## ICE Tactical (31 Jan 2006)

PhilB,
Here's a pic of the HydroYoke.
We can put any size/brand of buckles on it.

Hobey


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## COBRA-6 (1 Feb 2006)

This tour has made it very clear to me that the Tac Vest is simply not up to the job, and I'm in Kabul, not Kandahar! 

I've got a Lightfighter Falcon chest rig waiting for me when I get home in March, giggidy giggidy!


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## brihard (2 Feb 2006)

She's beautiful, Sir. I'm olive drab with envy.  ;D


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## The_Falcon (2 Feb 2006)

tim_chi said:
			
		

> Is it possible to buy these pseudo plates? I was looking into getting a CIRAS with real plates, but the price is just.. well.. for a res private it's insane. I'd like to be able to train with all my gear on. I go for runs with stuff crammed into my tacvest and I was looking for something to simulate plates. Any help would be great. Thanks!
> 
> God Bless
> 
> Tim Chi



Got to a fitness store and get a weighted training vest.  Depending on the manufacturer you can get them in weights up to a 120lbs.  And as a side bonus they tend to be cheaper than getting ballistic plates and body armour.


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## COBRA-6 (3 Feb 2006)

Brihard, it's actually tan  

But that won't matter too much after I put some CADPAT AR pouches on it. What's nice is that more and more products are coming out in CADPAT, both TW and AR. Dave's Surplus, DropZone and ICE Tactical are some of the places you can get them. If I find myself someplace green next time, I can spraypaint the chest rig and slap on some CADPAT TW pouches and be GTG. Plus with modular systems you can configure your gear to suit your needs exactly. They make modular pouches for anything and everything. 5.56 mags, pistol mags, C9 boxes, 40mm grenades, shotgun shells, smoke or frag grenades, pistols, first-aid kits, hydration bladders, nalgene bottles, GPS, radios, NVGs... etc etc... 

And with MALICE clips you can reconfigure your gear when required without undue hassle...


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## kyleg (4 Feb 2006)

Without undue hassle? I've heard differently about malice clips. Apparently they're pretty hard to undo.


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## Big Red (4 Feb 2006)

You've heard wrong. They are easy to undo.


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## KevinB (7 Feb 2006)

Well for some...

They are NOT going to come off by accident - but it takes seconds to remove by intent -


If you have problems with a MALICE clip -- you probably have trouble walking and talking - or forget the breathe routinely...


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Feb 2006)

"If you have problems with a MALICE clip -- you probably have trouble walking and talking - or forget the breathe routinely..."
perhaps a little decaf Kev ;D


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## mudgunner49 (8 Feb 2006)

CFL said:
			
		

> "If you have problems with a MALICE clip -- you probably have trouble walking and talking - or forget the breathe routinely..."
> perhaps a little decaf Kev ;D



...or shouldn't be in public without adult supervision...


blake


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## kyleg (8 Feb 2006)

Hahaha, ok, point taken. I've never handled them myself but I must have misinterpreted someone else's comment... that or they can't walk, forget to breathe, and need adult supervision ;D

Maybe one day, when I wake up in a pile of money, I'll buy all the pouches I want from Tactical Tailor, Paraclete, Eagle, TAG, etc and have a little fun with malice clips. But until then its swap meet BHI stuff for me *sigh...*

Cheers,
Pinky


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## mudgunner49 (8 Feb 2006)

Pinky,

If you want a Malice clip to try out/experiment with/become familiar with... shoot me a line and I'll send one your way.  They are the hindquarters of the feline!!!


blake


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## kyleg (10 Feb 2006)

Thanks for the offer mate, but I'm sure one will wind up in my hands soon enough. I find myself in the middle of an online shopping spree, you see. When I ordered my RAID I thought "I'll have no need for pouches, it's bigger than my last pack and I was fine with that one." Turns out all RAIDs are shipped with the _pouchitis_ virus impregnated in the Cordura. I find myself day-dreaming about my ideal setup, forgoing meals just to scrape up enough cash to buy my next pouch... I wake up in a cold sweat on some nights severely distraught at the thought of any PALS webbing being left uncovered. I cringe at the thought of having to remove all of the pouches so that my beloved RAID will be carry-on-size, as one might cringe at the thought of stripping the skin off of one's best friend. Whenever something gets me down I need only to close my eyes and imagine my RAID in an embrace of modular Cordura goodness to lift my spirits. The image warms me from head to toe...

In short, thanks, but that's really not necessary ;D

Cheers,
Pinky


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## mudgunner49 (10 Feb 2006)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> Thanks for the offer mate, but I'm sure one will wind up in my hands soon enough. I find myself in the middle of an online shopping spree, you see. When I ordered my RAID I thought "I'll have no need for pouches, it's bigger than my last pack and I was fine with that one." Turns out all RAIDs are shipped with the _pouchitis_ virus impregnated in the Cordura. I find myself day-dreaming about my ideal setup, forgoing meals just to scrape up enough cash to buy my next pouch... I wake up in a cold sweat on some nights severely distraught at the thought of any PALS webbing being left uncovered. I cringe at the thought of having to remove all of the pouches so that my beloved RAID will be carry-on-size, as one might cringe at the thought of stripping the skin off of one's best friend. Whenever something gets me down I need only to close my eyes and imagine my RAID in an embrace of modular Cordura goodness to lift my spirits. The image warms me from head to toe...
> 
> In short, thanks, but that's really not necessary ;D
> 
> ...



You are one twisted chicken - yep, you've got it baaaad...  


blake


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## kyleg (10 Feb 2006)

What can I say, I got it bad :dontpanic:


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## Bzzliteyr (4 Oct 2006)

Wow, must've missed this thread a while back.  I stumbled upon it doing a google search for "cadpat CIRAS" as I noticed on the eagle industries page for the CIRAS it says "Color: Olive Drab and Khaki are standard. Other colors available upon special request for an additional charge."  Which made me wonder if I could hit Mark Wheeler up for some Cadpat and send it their way?

Tim Chi, in ref. to you asking about the BLU kit.  I have been wearing mine for most of the year, in Gagetown at the Armour School and around base and now with me in Valcartier.  Nobody has given me grief about it.. yet.  And I have the strap kit installed on it too.  It usually takes people a couple of looks before they notice something different about it.  I fear the day someone tries to make me seperate with my lovely, oh so comfy helmet.

Bzz


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## combatbuddha (4 Oct 2006)

From my experience on Op Archer Roto 0 in Kandahar, the troops were not overly encouraged to purchase the gucci chest rigs etc unless it supplemented the exisitng tac vest. ie M203 grenade pouches. Pistol holsters, mag pouches and add ons were encouraged if it made the individuals job easier and were strapped, taped and sometime sewn to the current tac vest. ( the Bianci holster sucks). Using non- issue ballistic plates in Theatre is a big no no. Alot of time and effort has gone into procurring the most suitable for our needs, and if something sub standard was used, the consequences could be dire. BUT, if the current plates are sub standard, and current events should dictate this, then the UCR process must be engaged.


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## Farmboy (4 Oct 2006)

That just sounded like a conversation I had with an RSM who though the Chest Rigs would go over the TV!!

By "gucci" do you mean "will hold more than 4 mags" or "ability to carry 40mm"  or "will hold 2 C9 drums and water" ?


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## Jay4th (5 Oct 2006)

;D

This is the kit I wore TF 106
Hellcat Mk 2 chest rig (internal 6 mag capacity) from Kev B
Tactical Tailor Med pouch
Tiger Tactical 5 Banger Pouch (holds M203,Bangers or Pistols mags)
BlackHawk 2 Grenade Pouch
Tactical Tailor 3 Mag shingle
Spec Ops Untility pouch
Maxpedition RollyPolly Medium Size Dump Pouch (rolled when not in use)
Camelbak Motherlode BackPack (not pictured)






Diemaco C8FTHB
KAC RASII
Aimpoint CompM2 w/ GG&G low mount
M203A1
Wilderness Single Point Sling
Diemaco plastic BIS (personal one would not fit due to Diemaco's non M1913 rail dimension on CF flattops)


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## Scoobie Newbie (5 Oct 2006)

Um Jay is that at home?  (like you'd say)  ;D


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## big bad john (5 Oct 2006)

Just for home defensive purposes right.  {backing away slowly}


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## Jay4th (5 Oct 2006)

Bunk in the BAT before turning ammo in.


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## Scoobie Newbie (5 Oct 2006)

seen


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## combatbuddha (6 Oct 2006)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> That just sounded like a conversation I had with an RSM who though the Chest Rigs would go over the TV!!
> 
> By "gucci" do you mean "will hold more than 4 mags" or "ability to carry 40mm"  or "will hold 2 C9 drums and water" ?



Exactly, the practical operational stuff the garri-Troopers don't let us use when we train domestically.

(but also the cheap ass stuff the Russian chix sell at the Black Ops shop in KAF, that all the REMFs buy to look cool)


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