# Royal Navy Promotion During the 18th Century



## tomahawk6 (29 Mar 2017)

I have enjoyed the historical novels such as CS Forester,Alexander Kent and Patrick Obrian which has caused me to study the RN of the period particularly the promotion system. I found an interesting study of the subject by Professor Rodger in the Journal for Maritime Research. One aspect of promotion that I found curious was once an officer was a Commander he could be advanced directly to Post Captain. Promotion was almost painfully slow once attaining Post Captain. Promotion to flag rank could take a decade or more. 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/21533369.2001.9668314


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## Monsoon (30 Mar 2017)

Promotions beyond Post Captain were until into the 20th century based strictly on seniority - even the Admiral of the Fleet was just the currently-serving officer who had achieved Post-rank first (though obvious laggards could ordinarily be put ashore on half-pay indefinitely; effectively retired).

The slowness of promotions was eventually compounded by the fact that at some point it was decided that any officer who had commanded a ship prior to end of the Napoleonic Wars (1815) should be retained on the active list until their death to prevent their dieing in poverty.

One effect of this was that Provo Wallis, an unremarkable Nova Scotia-born officer who had commanded a sloop briefly in 1814 and later scraped his way to Post in 1819, made his way up to Admiral of the Fleet where he presided for 17 years before his death at the age of 100 in 1892. His last actual duty appointment had ended in 1858. It was gently suggested at some point in his 90s that he might consider retiring, to which he responded that he would be happy to do so if Queen Victoria asked him to.

There's a street by the Dockyard in Halifax named after him, no doubt in homage to his exemplification of the fine Canadian tradition of insisting upon ones entitlements at any cost.


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## Flavus101 (30 Mar 2017)

Monsoon said:
			
		

> Promotions beyond Post Captain were until into the 20th century based strictly on seniority - even the Admiral of the Fleet was just the currently-serving officer who had achieved Post-rank first (though obvious laggards could ordinarily be put ashore on half-pay indefinitely; effectively retired)....



Interesting bit of history, thanks for that!


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## dimsum (30 Mar 2017)

Monsoon said:
			
		

> There's a street by the Dockyard in Halifax named after him, no doubt in homage to his exemplification of the fine Canadian tradition of insisting upon ones entitlements at any cost.



 :rofl:


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## Oldgateboatdriver (30 Mar 2017)

And the Coast Guard named a ship after him:

CCGS Provo Wallis:

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/Fleet/Vessel?vessel_id=126


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## Edward Campbell (30 Mar 2017)

And yet, despite all that, the system produced e.g. Admiral of the Fleet Lord John (Jackie) Fisher who was one of the RN's great innovators. He served in war and peace from 1854 until 1909 and was then called back into service, as First Sea Lord, in 1914.  :dunno:  So, perhaps, there is a way, other than rapid tours, favouritism and "ticket punching," to produce good leaders and leaders who can manage, too.


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## Kirkhill (30 Mar 2017)

Did the RN suffer during the tenure of Centenarian Wallis?  From my understanding of history the RN ticked along reasonably well between 1815 and 1914.   ???


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## Edward Campbell (30 Mar 2017)

Monsoon said:
			
		

> Promotions beyond Post Captain were until into the 20th century based strictly on seniority - even the Admiral of the Fleet was just the currently-serving officer who had achieved Post-rank first (though obvious laggards could ordinarily be put ashore on half-pay indefinitely; effectively retired).
> 
> The slowness of promotions was eventually compounded by the fact that at some point it was decided that any officer who had commanded a ship prior to end of the Napoleonic Wars (1815) should be retained on the active list until their death to prevent their dieing in poverty.
> 
> ...




In fairness to the RN's 19th century C2 system, however, despite his very high rank, the last and highest operational command Provo Wallis ever held was, according to his Wikipedia entry "*Commander-in-Chief, South East Coast of America Station, with his flag in the third-rate HMS Cumberland, in May 1857 but only held the command until September 1857.*" So, he may have held a very high rank, "at the Queen's pleasure" but he wasn't entrusted with much in the way of responsibility.

I wouldn't mind the atrocious number of admirals and generals we have _lallygagging_ about in Ottawa (and elsewhere) if they were, à la  Provo Wallis, just drawing pay and not were not actually allowed to do anything, not even to send memos and e-mails to one another, or to anyone else, for that matter. Maybe reserve regiments and ships don't have enough honorary captains and colonels and a few dozen admirals and generals could be assigned to be honorary _something elses_ ~ quite powerless, of course, except in the never ending "buttons and bows" domain.


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## Monsoon (31 Mar 2017)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> And yet, despite all that, the system produced e.g. Admiral of the Fleet Lord John (Jackie) Fisher who was one of the RN's great innovators. He served in war and peace from 1854 until 1909 and was then called back into service, as First Sea Lord, in 1914.  :dunno:  So, perhaps, there is a way, other than rapid tours, favouritism and "ticket punching," to produce good leaders and leaders who can manage, too.


Arguably, Fisher's greatest innovation was to end the practice of promotions based on time in.


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