# War wounded 'need military wards'



## Towards_the_gap (3 Oct 2006)

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

*War wounded 'need military wards' *   

UK troops in NHS hospitals should be treated in separate wings even if it requires public wards to be shut down, the shadow defence secretary has said. 
Liam Fox said it was a "disgrace" to treat them alongside civilian patients.  

A relative of a paratrooper wounded in Afghanistan had reportedly said the soldier had been threatened by a Muslim visitor on an NHS ward in Birmingham. 

But the Ministry of Defence has said it has no evidence of the soldier being threatened at the Selly Oak Hospital. 

Dr Fox said: "It is a betrayal of our troops having them treated in mixed and open wards."

Full article here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5403996.stm

Further information about the broader situation HEREhttp://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=408180&in_page_id=1770


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## medicineman (3 Oct 2006)

That's what happens when your defence budget gets continually cut - one of the first things to go is military hospitals.  Oddly enough, we pretty much have the same problem here...though the Civic in Ottawa does have some military staff IIRC.

MM


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## GAP (3 Oct 2006)

medicineman said:
			
		

> That's what happens when your defence budget gets continually cut - one fo the first things to go is military hospitals.  Oddly enough, we pretty much have the same problem here...though the Civic in Ottawa does have some military staff IIRC.
> MM



The Deer Lodge in Winnipeg used to be strictly for Veterans, now I believe there is only 1 or 2 wards, the rest is public (geriatric type accommodations that require more than a nursing home)


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

Hmmm....
If the visitor threatened the injured serviceman, I'd ask the civ visitor to make arrangements to have their friend admitted to another hospital cause.... they're about to get their walking papers.  While it wouldn't be fair for the visitor's ill friend - threatening the wounded serviceman wasn't very sporting either..............


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## Yrys (3 Oct 2006)

Well, maybe because I'm a civy,
I don't see the need of military wards.

Seem to me that the present situation
 help civy people make more contact with military,
wich can only be good.

As for the thread, I hope people around him reacted.
And that hospitals will react too


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## medicineman (3 Oct 2006)

Having military hospitals is all about looking after our own - or wards in civvy ones.  It also exposes baby medics to actual sick people they don't always get to see these days and at varying stages of their illnesses - it is useful training for later on in their careers.  Also, it keeps some cohesion - wounded or sick people from the same units tend to heal better and faster if they stay close to their buddies - they can lean on eachother for support (literally and otherwise) and have been through shared experiences.  It makes people feel a little less left out.

MM


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

(.... which is also the reason / purpose for Legion halls )


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## Towards_the_gap (3 Oct 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmm....
> If the visitor threatened the injured serviceman, I'd ask the civ visitor to make arrangements to have their friend admitted to another hospital cause.... they're about to get their walking papers.  While it wouldn't be fair for the visitor's ill friend - threatening the wounded serviceman wasn't very sporting either..............



from what I've gleaned through the rumour net, said muslim visitor in fact worked at the hospital! 

and was subsequently 'disciplined'. Now if that meant caned, then fair one. But somehow I doubt that happened.


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## Mike Baker (3 Oct 2006)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Having military hospitals is all about looking after our own - or wards in civvy ones.  It also exposes baby medics to actual sick people they don't always get to see these days and at varying stages of their illnesses - it is useful training for later on in their careers.  Also, it keeps some cohesion - wounded or sick people from the same units tend to heal better and faster if they stay close to their buddies - they can lean on eachother for support (literally and otherwise) and have been through shared experiences.  It makes people feel a little less left out.
> 
> MM


That too is the way I see it.


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> from what I've gleaned through the rumour net, said muslim visitor in fact worked at the hospital!
> and was subsequently 'disciplined'. Now if that meant caned, then fair one. But somehow I doubt that happened.


Hope that the Vet has a mate in the neighborhood next time the visitor comes a calling... then they can show said visitor some real warm hospitality


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## HItorMiss (3 Oct 2006)

Military wards are needed more now then ever before. I'm not complaining about the care which our wounded received at the Civic but it was significantly different then the care in Lansthul simply because the staff had a concept of what the soldiers passing through the hospital had been through... How does one explain to a civi nurse why the patient is balling his eyes out uncontrollably at 3 am however the Military nurse that has seen it a million times before just quietly sits there and hold the soldiers hand never saying anything not running off to get a phyc consult. She is just there being a presence of warmth. Now I'm not saying the civi nurse wouldn't;t be as caring I'm just saying they don;t have a clue how to be the type of caring that the wounded soldier needs.


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## big bad john (4 Oct 2006)

medicineman said:
			
		

> That's what happens when your defence budget gets continually cut - one of the first things to go is military hospitals.  Oddly enough, we pretty much have the same problem here...though the Civic in Ottawa does have some military staff IIRC.
> 
> MM



Military staff is posted to Civic on an as needed basis when there are military patients in residence.


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## medicineman (4 Oct 2006)

Far cry from when we had a ward there after NDMC became a centre of ignorance and the puzzle palace.

MM


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## big bad john (5 Oct 2006)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/nmod05.xml

MoD pays NHS to speed up care of troops
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent and Nick Britten
(Filed: 05/10/2006)



The Ministry of Defence is paying the NHS to accelerate injured servicemen's access to surgeons, the military's head of health said yesterday.

As the ministry fends off growing criticism from military chiefs and charities over the treatment of soldiers wounded on operations, it can be revealed that negotiations are being held with six NHS health trusts to speed up care of troops.

The news has emerged after The Daily Telegraph's report that 5,000 personnel in the Armed Forces are failing to get priority treatment, leading to delays in them getting back to front-line duty.

advertisementAir Cdre Paul Evans, director of health care for the MoD, said that following negotiations with the NHS the wounded would now be seen within four weeks by a consultant and would have only a six-week wait for surgery. The MoD paid an "accelerated access fee" that was individually negotiated and gave troops access to expert surgeons.

The negotiating system had been in place since Christmas, he added, but he refused to discuss the amount the NHS charged for the preferential access.

It has also emerged that plans to build a £200 million military medical centre of excellence to replace the controversial Royal Centre for Defence Medicine in Birmingham have been scrapped by the MoD after being deemed too costly.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that the MoD has instead earmarked a cheaper alternative split over three sites 20 miles apart.

Officials spent two years drawing up plans for a centre to be built on the existing site of Selly Oak hospital, Birmingham, which currently houses the RCDM but which is earmarked for demolition following the opening of a new £559 million "super hospital" in the south of the city in 2011.

The centre would have brought together the headquarters of the military's medical training agencies, currently located around the country. It was to have boasted state of the art training, mess and sporting facilities and to have contained military-only wards, thus negating the need for placing injured servicemen in general NHS wards.

However, it was deemed too costly and under current proposals, recently sent out by the MoD, officials are carrying out an assessment to keep medical practices on two sites in Birmingham and move accommodation for all doctors, nurses and support staff to Whittington barracks in Lichfield, home of the Staffordshire regiments.

It said several sites were looked at but "none of the other sites reviewed would meet the requirement so well and so cost-effectively as Lichfield".

One senior officer who was involved in drawing up the proposals for the new centre of excellence said: "It was shown to be value for money over 25 years but the whole thing came to a very abrupt halt after two years of investigation.

"We are watching an unprecedented expansion of the NHS and at the same time struggling to recruit and retain medical experts in the military. In this sort of situation, we needed to invest in the medical services and there was no better way to do it.

"Putting people an hour away by bus is really demotivating and does not make economic sense. It also does not put the military medical services up there as something to aspire to, as the centre of excellence would have.

"It was affordable but it comes down to whether the Government is giving the military enough money."

Peter Viggers, the MP for Gosport, where the Defence Medical Education and Training Agency and the 33 Field Hospital — which will be moved to Lichfield — are based, said: "There has been a lot of disquiet about this and morale is very low.

"A huge amount of money is being spent putting people up in bed and breakfasts and in hostels, which is not ideal for anyone. We are having great difficulty in retaining doctors who, in their late 30s and with a stable home and family, can earn more money in the civilian sector. Scrapping plans for a new centre of excellence sends out all the wrong messages."

Air Cdre Evans said security issues "of grave concern" had now been addressed at Selly Oak, after this newspaper reported that an injured paratrooper had been confronted by a man who accused him of "killing our Muslim brothers".

The officer also admitted that welfare and support care "could be improved" and steps were being taken to ensure this.

Since the Iraq invasion three years ago rehabilitation of the injured had been developed with 13 regional centres, manned by specialist GPs and advance physiotherapists, used to assess and treat troops.

The centres, spread across the country and with two in Germany, will also give soldiers access to an MRI scan within 10 days.


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## big bad john (8 Oct 2006)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/displayPrintable.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/07/nward07.xml&site=5&page=0

Security for troops on wards
By Ben Quinn
(Filed: 07/10/2006)



Security is to be stepped up at a hospital where a paratrooper recovering from wounds sustained in Afghanistan was verbally abused by a Muslim visitor.

Concerns about troops recovering alongside civilian patients on NHS wards were prompted after The Daily Telegraph reported how the soldier was subjected to a tirade by the man at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham.

During a visit to the hospital yesterday, Derek Twigg, the defence minister, disclosed details of how security arrangements are to be tightened.

advertisementSwipe cards will be introduced within days on three trauma wards, where many military personnel are treated, and CCTV cameras will be installed in the near future.

Seriously wounded solders have complained that they are worried about their safety after being left on wards that are open to the public.

The wounded Para was still in combat uniform when the man shouted at him: "You have been killing my Muslim brothers in Afghanistan."

Mr Twigg, who praised the treatment given to troops, said he could find no evidence of the incident. But when pressed about the security implications of mixed wards, he said: "We want to look at security and make sure we provide an enhancement to that."


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## geo (10 Oct 2006)

Per "Towards the gap" the visitor was a hospital employee.....
so those improved security measures aren't going to help very much IMHO

Then again, how is "locking up" returning servicemen a solution?.. Sounds more like a prison sentence than anything else.


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