# Reapplying again!



## patrick666 (13 Feb 2005)

Tomorrow I am heading to the Barrie CFRC detachment to reapply for 043. I have to get my files transferred from Calgary and everything rehashed. 

Wish me luck!

Is there any chance of being sent to BMQ by summer ? 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## Gouki (21 Feb 2005)

Patrick H. said:
			
		

> Tomorrow I am heading to the Barrie CFRC detachment to reapply for 043. I have to get my files transferred from Calgary and everything rehashed.
> 
> Wish me luck!
> 
> ...



From what I've been through, I think you have a better chance of opening your window and flying than going on BMQ by summer.

Not to be harsh, but I had to get my files transfered from 38 CBG and that _alone_ took about 2 1/2 months. Factor in the time for an interview, CFAT (if applicable to you), medical and PT test and the final interview, then the swearing in and the ungodly amount of waiting time in between each phase .. well, I just hope you're the patient type.


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## Gouki (21 Feb 2005)

The recruiting for the forces is an utter joke. Just about every serviceman/woman I talk to acknowledge that - even some WO's and MWO's in recruiting itself! It's one of the most screwed up, unorganized aspects of the CF and unfortunately it's almost always the first level of the CF that recruits see.

The Ombudsman had this really nice article about recruiting problems he acknowledges in the CF in the Maple Leaf or whatever that forces newspaper is called. Despite all his articulately phrased words, I've yet to see/hear/feel/spidey sense anything being done about it.

My suggestion to you is to do what I am going to do. Once you're in and you sign on that dotted line, send the Ombudsman a strongly worded letter letting him know what you think of the recruiting process. I know I will.


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## Paish (21 Feb 2005)

I actually found all the recruiting staff to be freindly and efficent in my dealings, please dont paint everyone with the same brush, i am sure they all try to the best of their abilities!!


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## Torlyn (21 Feb 2005)

Patrick H. said:
			
		

> Yeah, I had my application SENT back to me because there this wrong, and that wrong, and am still wainting for it again. I didn't know it was such a pain in the ass to get into the CF. Do they save the dumbest soldiers for the CFRC?
> 
> I bet so many people just give up because it's so friggin' annoying sometimes.



You've previously stated that you've been applying for 4 years.  You know what?  Pull your head out of your ass, and take some ownership.  *YOU* filled in the application wrong and it was sent back.  How is this THEIR fault?  What else are you blaming CFRC for that is entirely your responsibility?  CFRC have a hard enough job without having to deal with ignorant ravings like this.  For myself and the other applicants on here who have been waiting patiently because we filled everything out *RIGHT*, it's heart-warming to know that it's people like you wasting their time that is slowing the process down for the rest of us.  Is it frustrating?  Yes.  Vent it in some other way.  If you don't have the patience now, good luck dealing with the federal government for any extended periods of time.

T


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## Gouki (21 Feb 2005)

Paish said:
			
		

> I actually found all the recruiting staff to be freindly and efficent in my dealings, please dont paint everyone with the same brush, i am sure they all try to the best of their abilities!!



I too have found them friendly, but efficient they have not been. If this wasn't a problem throughout the forces and if they all tried to the best of their abilities, the Ombudsman wouldn't have been releasing statements where he blatently says there is a definate problem with recruiting that needs fixing.


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## Gouki (21 Feb 2005)

And yeah, Torlyn is right, Patrick. They can't help it if you filled out your own form incorrect. It's a pain to get into the CF yes, but don't compound the problem by messing things up on your own.


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## Sh0rtbUs (21 Feb 2005)

good luck, you've only been defeated when you accept it. Keep at er, its worth it in the end.


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## Tpr.Orange (23 Feb 2005)

Thank you to all those that have stood up for CFRC recruiters and unit recruiters... 

These men and women work hard everyday, and usually have between 50 and 70 new callers each day applying or phoning for information. Its unfortunate that some people have had bad experiences with the forces. But take some responsibility for your short commings. The forces is doing a great deal to improve their recruiting procedures. But with constant negative comments like

"Do they save the dumbest soldiers for the CFRC?"



Hey Patrick I noticed that some of your spelling and grammer isn't too perfect either. Want me to nitpick and make fun

" there this wrong, and that wrong, and am still wainting for it again. "  

I dont even need to be an @ss about it, just quoting you makes you look unintelligent. Perhaps if you chose the high road things might be a little easier for you, you could also just ask for help if you didn't understand a part of your application. 

Good luck on your application with the forces, i hope the rest of the process isn't as complicated for you as it has been.


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## Gouki (23 Feb 2005)

Forgive the cynicism, but with Patrick's issues aside, could you perhaps tell me exactly _what_ the CF is doing to improve the recruiting process? An article, or web page or anything else you could direct me to?

I ask because, as a recruit waiting to be sworn in and meritt listed, I have had nothing but pure trouble with recruiting so far. My entire file was lost at one point and hung in limbo somewhere, nothing was followed up upon (I actually had to get my father who's a chief clerk - he posts here himself - to pull some strings on his end to find it..not every recruit has this connection at all) then they wait another month or so to tell me that I need xxx more forms filled out (which I will point out now, they did *not* inform me I needed in the beginning whatsoever) and so far, every single time I have done what they asked, they pull something new out of the hat. I'm at the point now where I can literally think of nothing else they want for me but I still expect something new to come out of the woodwork.

Now, obviously as an army brat and a former Reservist, I've been exposed to the military all my life and know much more than a regular civvie coming off the street. But, I do not have the experience - I acknowledge that. 

However, I've had a Chaplain, a PO2, an MWO, a few Sgt's and plenty, plenty of Junior NCO's all tell me what a joke recruiting is. I can even understand dismissing some of what the Junior NCO's may have told me as a Cpl or a MCpl may not have a _tremendous_ amount of time under their belts at all. But I cannot dismiss what the Senior NCO's and the Chaplain has said to me. They didn't simply say "recruiting sucks" they explained their beefs pretty thoroughly. How can I dismiss what I have heard and now witnessed - and by the way, one of the Senior NCO's works in recruiting and admitted this to me, so there is even more informative feedback on the subject. The collective experience between the Senior NCO's and the Chaplain would easily end up around 100 years in total. That simply can't be ignored and now as I said I'm finding it out for myself.

I know already that there are some soldiers involved with recruiting on these boards (won't mention names) who valiantly defend the CF recruiting and such. That's all fine and great, but from all of the above, you could be a damned recruiting Major and tell me recruiting is doing a fine job and there is no way in hell I would ever believe you. Especially after several of my friends have had as bad or worse problems than me (and to clear things up - they are not un-intelligent, lazy, physically unfit or anything else of the nature). How can anyone possibly say nothing is wrong with recruiting?

Unfortunately I don't know enough about the system to say exactly what is wrong and put my finger on it. However one day I will know enough and believe you me, I'm definately going to put forward a ton of suggestions in how to fix things instead of just sitting here griping. And I am still going to write to the Ombudsman - maybe some more negative feedback will get him going all the faster to do whatever he can do to improve things.

I can tell you one suggestion though: get the freaking departments and people involved to talk to the other. There was so much mis-communication on recruiting sides part that it boggled my mind when the respective depts. told me about it.


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## patrick666 (24 Feb 2005)

There is no real system. Every province is different, every city is different. They need an arrangement between all detachments that adheres to one specific way of recruiting. That's my .02... 

Cheers


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## BDTyre (24 Feb 2005)

For the most part I've been happy with the recruiting process.  There have been a few notable glitches.

1. Inputting an appointment incorrectly into their schedule, thus making them think I missed an interview and making me wait and hour and a half while they figured it out.
2. Requiring me to submit two more letters of reference while my last two should still be valid (they do last a year, from what I understand.  Maybe that's changed).

and my favourite to date -this just happened yesterday:

3. Not being able to find my file because I wrote my name on my "Preppign for Your Interview" form as First Last, and they assumed I had written it Last, First.  Why they a) didn't ask me my last name right off when I brought the stuff in or b) try my last name when my first name clearly did not bring anything up is beyond me.

There have been other minor things, but these people are trying.  And I agree, there is often an issue with communications between the departments.


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## kitrad1 (26 Feb 2005)

"Yeah, I had my application SENT back to me because there this wrong, and that wrong, and am still wainting for it again. I didn't know it was such a pain in the *** to get into the CF. Do they save the dumbest soldiers for the CFRC? "

Okay, let's see if I understand this...you can't fill out an application correctly and it is your potential employer's fault? Got it!


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## Gouki (26 Feb 2005)

I think it's been made beyond clear that Patrick screwed up and put undue blame on CFRC.


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## MILPO (26 Feb 2005)

Now is it really the recruiters fault at the CFRC's or the system in itself?   With several thousand applicants waiting and applying each year and your files going from hand to hand persay and lack of resources, it's easy to see how "screwups" or mixups can tend to happen, with applicant files transferring from CFRC to CFRG to where ever in limbo it ends up.... with the new budget, the CF should look at centralizing all files once they are completed at the CFRC's, to cut down on possibility of losing personal files as they seem to be transferred to several people throughout the process.   Also, there should be a new webpage or site added to notify potential applicants of their process/success through all trades, i.e. assign a personnel number that you would enter on the website to check your status, instead of having to call the CFRC all of the time.

Good luck to all still plugging away...i'm in the same boat!!


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## Gouki (26 Feb 2005)

I would say its the system.

Logically and rationally, there is no way that it can be all the fault of the recruiters themselves. That would require just about every recruiting personnel to be somehow lazy, or inefficient, or sluggish, wasting time etc which just isn't so.

I think it's the system failing to help the recruiters, who subsequently fail to properly recruit people. There needs to be more organization.. My father once said he found it stupid that there wasn't some chief clerk or someone to keep track of things (I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something to that effect), different departments, where all information would route to.. if you see what I am trying to say. Because I _alone_, ignoring everything else I've found out/been told, have had many problems with the disorganization of the whole thing. The medical people weren't talking to the recruiting dept. who weren't talking with the administrative branch etc. Every single time I checked up on things, it was always "well so and so people were supposed to do this but didn't" and when I called said people, they gave me "well this part hasn't done this or we're still waiting for X branch to give us this or that" it was just a continual stream of excuses because the left hand wasn't talking to the right.

They need someone to just .. oversee the whole thing. The recruiters can't .. they're busy recruiting! One of the Petty Officers I know was saying how they deal with tons of calls/emails and that getting new members alone takes up a good chunk of their time. Getting someone like a clerk or someone to make sure things get done on time and that there is proper communication between branches, and who would take in all the data and sort it out and process it, give the relevent information to the recruiter and such and get the thing sailing smoothly would be nice to have.

I frequently bash recruiting and the CFRC, but while I feel they share some responsibility in things, I'm really just venting my frustration of the entire process itself. It would seem that the system ties the hands of the people trying to get me in. They don't make the waves, just ride them. Sometimes it's hard to remember that though.

I think your webpage idea is a great one.. Kind of reminds me of the firearms registration, where you just put in your number and check how far your application has gone. That is brilliant, and with a centralization of files with some clerk or whatever to act as the focal point for information flow, the webpage would get updated regularly and the applicant wouldn't have to go so long in the dark. This would also free up the recruiters time considerably - at least I would think so. A centralization would probably benefit everyone in the end, after all it's much less costly to prevent a mistake than do damage control once one has been made.

That's just some more musing from my small vantage point.. It's unfortunate no one will ever implement changes though. Like I said in another topic, I eventually plan on taking my ideas (once refined after I spend a year or two in the military and get a grip on the way things work) to the Ombudsman. I just wish it would have some sort of impact, seems like no one wants to listen anymore.


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