# Is this normal?



## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

For a country at war to not be able to allow it's countrymen answer the call to duty? I left school like an idiot in 09 because I foolishly thought our army needed more soldiers. I saw that some of our guys were going over for their 6-7th tour and I thought it was a necessity for young men like me to carry our load and do our part. Crazy thought process, I know. 

Just wondering your thoughts on the matter, whether it is responsible or not to increase the load on our already stretched army instead of spending more to train a bigger force.


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## Michael OLeary (6 Nov 2010)

The army has a set number of positions dictated by authorized strength. Except for limited opportunities in select trades, the Army is full.   If those soldiers who have executed multiple tours decide they want to stay in the Arny and return overseas, we're not going to kick them out just to make room for someone who's standing in line at the Recruiting Centre.

If you think we should have a bigger Army, try convincing your Member of Parliament, because he or she is the one that will have to vote on a budget increase (and possibly the related extra taxes) to make that happen.


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## MMSS (6 Nov 2010)

Maintaining a smaller force also means that they are more selective with applicants and therefore are (in theory) getting the best available recruits.


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## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The army has a set number of positions dictated by authorized strength. Except for limited opportunities in select trades, the Army is full.   If those soldiers who have executed multiple tours decide they want to stay in the Arny and return overseas, we're not going to kick them out just to make room for someone who's standing in line at the Recruiting Centre.
> 
> If you think we should have a bigger Army, try convincing your Member of Parliament, because he or she is the one that will have to vote on a budget increase (and possibly the related extra taxes) to make that happen.



What do you mean by authorized strength? The united states has 7 active soldiers per 1000 people, we have 2. I think we it's well known that we are in a much better financial situation than the americans are at the moment. Why is it that we can't have a Army as big as theirs per capita? I think Canada is a great country, and should stand for something. 

Can you see where I am coming from? It's almost been two years for me now, I'm not complaining though. Just trying to inform myself as to why this is and if I can expect it to go on.


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## AmmoTech90 (6 Nov 2010)

It means that the US strength has nothing to do with our strength.

Our establishment is set by an the Governor in Council.  That's it,  we can't really recruit above it.  If the training system is full because people are deployed and there is a shortage of instructors, you wait.


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## Michael OLeary (6 Nov 2010)

The Department of National Defence (DND) doesn't get to just decide how many soldiers we are going to have.  The size of the military, and the budget supporting it, are political decisions.  All you need to do is create the detailed assessment of a realistic threat that convinces the Government that we need to have more soldiers, and convince your fellow canadians that they should pay for it, either along with or instead of something else they pay for now.

Can you see where I'm coming from?


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## Strike (6 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> What do you mean by authorized strength? The united states has 7 active soldiers per 1000 people, we have 2.



And the UK and Australia are both sitting at about 2/1000.  Just because we share a border with the US doesn't mean we are like them and should start acting like them.  You are comparing apples to oranges.


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## chrisf (6 Nov 2010)

It's not up to the military... it's up to the government... complain to your member of parliament...

If you can convince them that their being re-elected has somthing to do with it, then they might do somthing.

Best of luck.


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## aesop081 (6 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I think Canada is a great country, and should stand for something.



Are you telling us that Canada currently doesnt stand for anything ?


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## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Are you telling us that Canada currently doesnt stand for anything ?



I'm willing to die for my country and you want to question my patriotism? Sorry, that did come off the wrong way, but be realistic.


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## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

Strike said:
			
		

> And the UK and Australia are both sitting at about 2/1000.  Just because we share a border with the US doesn't mean we are like them and should start acting like them.  You are comparing apples to oranges.



We don't face the same threats as the United States? Interesting.


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## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The Department of National Defence (DND) doesn't get to just decide how many soldiers we are going to have.  The size of the military, and the budget supporting it, are political decisions.  All you need to do is create the detailed assessment of a realistic threat that convinces the Government that we need to have more soldiers, and convince your fellow canadians that they should pay for it, either along with or instead of something else they pay for now.
> 
> Can you see where I'm coming from?



I do, thank you for your replies.

Is it just me that thinks the world is going to shit? And that we might been some soldiers to defend our country?


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## Michael OLeary (6 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I'm willing to die for my country and you want to question my patriotism? Sorry, that did come off the wrong way, but be realistic.



We are being realistic. If you think the CF should be bigger, then get into the details.

How big?
What structure?
What capabilities?
What will it cost?
Where's the money coming from?
How will you convince the GOVERNMENT that your plan is better than theirs?

Are you starting to see a trend in the replies you are getting, or do you want us to say the same things again?


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## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

Hey man, I just came here for some discussion about whether or not this is normal. I still haven't gotten an answer to that, even though it was the thread title.


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## aesop081 (6 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I'm willing to die for my country and you want to question my patriotism? Sorry, that did come off the wrong way, but be realistic.



I have 18 years of CF service and your plan is to lecture me on patrotisim service to the country ?

To answer your question.....YES ITS NORMAL.


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## Michael OLeary (6 Nov 2010)

The current recruiting situation is normal for today.

In the future it may change, dependent on many different factors, and it will be normal for that period.


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## mainse-event (6 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> We are being realistic. If you think the CF should be bigger, then get into the details.
> 
> How big?
> What structure?
> ...



I said get realistic to him not to the thread, it was specific to the foolish question he asked.


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## mainse-event (7 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The current recruiting situation is normal for today.
> 
> In the future it may change, dependent on many different factors, and it will be normal for that period.



Thanks, so does that mean we've never seen a freeze like this before?


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## mainse-event (7 Nov 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I have 18 years of CF service and your plan is to lecture me on patrotisim service to the country ?
> 
> To answer your question.....YES ITS NORMAL.



Look up lecture in the dictionary, lol. I wasn't trying to teach you anything, I was telling you how dumb it was to question my love for canada when I want to fight for it. Think about it.


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## Michael OLeary (7 Nov 2010)

Well, we've never spent 15 years in continuous and growing operational involvement (Balkans followed by Afghanistan) before either.  We've not in recent decades seen a downturn in the economy combined with good pay and benefits in the CF contributing to a significant downturn in attrition. We've never seen so many people lining up for so few open positions.  Take your pick on what particular factor you'd like to blame for the slow recruiting trend.

The bottom line is we don't just increase the size of the Army because the lines got long at the Recruiting Centre.


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## mainse-event (7 Nov 2010)

I really didn't want to come in here to argue, I simply just asked if it's normal, and if you think it's responsible of us to keep such a small force. 

p.s. not intended for you oleary, more for the guy that i was having a argument with. You have been most helpful.


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## Michael OLeary (7 Nov 2010)

Certainly, we all have opinions, but we've also found that unsubstantiated discussion over subjects like "should the army be bigger", "what plane we should fly", etc., lead to a lot of useless noise when there's no justifications for the rectally extracted numbers and equipment types that get thrown around when they aren't controlled by realistic deliberation.  If you really think the army should be bigger, convince us, using real world data that there's a need and show us how it can be done in way that would convince the Canadians that will have to pay for it.


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## mainse-event (7 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Certainly, we all have opinions, but we've also found that unsubstantiated discussion over subjects like "should the army be bigger", "what plane we should fly", etc., lead to a lot of useless noise when there's no justifications for the rectally extracted numbers and equipment types that get thrown around when they aren't controlled by realistic deliberation.  If you really think the army should be bigger, convince us, using real world data that there's a need and show us how it can be done in way that would convince the Canadians that will have to pay for it.



Yeah I deleted that part because I realized how stupid it was to say that, I just never see anybody here really be very candid about anything that could be politically incorrect. 

You are probably correct in your belief that the government knows best, I think we should just be smart, that's all.


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## mainse-event (7 Nov 2010)

I just think defense of our nation should be first priority, behind politics. As long as our leaders aren't hampering our ability to be a viable fighting force, I have no problem. This is a toxic political environment we are in, you never know what's really going on.


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## Michael OLeary (7 Nov 2010)

So, what's the military threat to Canada?
When, how and from where is it coming?
How much warning will we have before it gets here?
What do you think we need to be prepared for it?


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## AmmoTech90 (7 Nov 2010)

The Canadian Forces can do nothing without politics.  We follow the direction of our elected politicians.  If you are not willing to do that, then don't even bother thinking of joining.


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## Cdnleaf (7 Nov 2010)

Mainse, I was more curious about what your motivation is/was in posting this topic, and have read your other thread concerning leaving high school and recruiting posted last year.  I presume during the time that you have been waiting;  you have not gone back to school, are waiting for the call or have abandoned your efforts to join.  Regardless, if you truly desire to be part of the organization, then it may come down to making yourself more competitive with other applicants - one way is to finish high school.    

I received the same advice 24 odd years ago from a RCR Sgt at CFRC Toronto, when I was 16.  He stated quite politely that he could take my application, however highly recommended that I come back in a couple of years once I had my diploma and promised the military would still be there.  In hindsight now after an amazing 23 year run with the CF, it was the best initial advice I received.  

You can obviously continue to post topics such as this, though I don't believe any of the responses will articulate what you want to hear.  All the best and please:   :dontfeedmods:


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## Pusser (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I'm willing to die for my country and you want to question my patriotism? Sorry, that did come off the wrong way, but be realistic.



And what would dying for your country accomplish?  Please spare us jingoistic platitudes.  Death is a very real possibility in military service, but the sane ones amongst us don't intend to go there willingly.  We certainly don't need soldiers with a death wish.


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## theSeaDog (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> For a country at war to not be able to allow it's countrymen answer the call to duty? I left school like an idiot in 09 because I foolishly thought our army needed more soldiers. I saw that some of our guys were going over for their 6-7th tour and I thought it was a necessity for young men like me to carry our load and do our part. Crazy thought process, I know.
> 
> Just wondering your thoughts on the matter, whether it is responsible or not to increase the load on our already stretched army instead of spending more to train a bigger force.



Technically speaking, I don't believe we are currently in a state of war. I could be wrong, but I could not find any references to actual declarations of war. There are currently no states or nations that have declared war on Canada. We are not under a direct threat for which we would need to mobilize a larger standing force. 

Our army is not really stretched personnel wise. We maintain a small, professional standing amred force such that we can fulfill our obligations to our allies, and participate on the world stage, protect our borders, and look after our interests. Financially our forces are strained. Convince our government to improve military spending to better equip our soldiers.

Our forces is a volunteer force. If guys are doing 6-7 tours it's because they choose to.

Maintaining an overly large standing forces is economic stupidity. You point to the states as a reference of per capita size. I'd like to point out their current fiscal deficit... 

Even in times when states were under a significant threat of invasion, they rarely maintained a larger force then necessary to hold the capital city. When they were under threat, they would issue a call to arms and enlist the army. 

So to answer your question directly: Yes it is normal. 

PS: Telling people you are willing to die for your country is a good example of trite rhetoric and a good way to lose any legitimacy to your discussion.


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## untouchables (8 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> So, what's the military threat to Canada?



I believe its Terrorism since Canada is a NATO aligned nation, threats of terrorism do come occasionally, like  not so long ago where the 3 men from Ottawa and London plotted and/or conspired in an attack against government infrastructures. Funny how he was on Canadian idol too. Other than terrorism, occasional violations of Russian patrol aircraft in the Arctic and extreme weather that necessitated deployment of the forces i think it was "operation Recuperation"? Not really a threat but not conducive to the well being of Canadians alike.



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> When, how and from where is it coming?



When? Anytime. How? anyway. Where? anywhere. Murphy's law tells us to assume the worst. Living in this age after the cold war brings us memories of the past with rising economic/super/militarized powers and already existing nuclear stockpiles the world can easily be mobilized into war with a click of a button. Even though it may seem peaceful, all it takes is one wrong move to cause a chain reaction.



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> How much warning will we have before it gets here?



When NORAD, CSIS, DND has sufficient intelligence on this matter. appropriate measures will be taken by the DND, Federal government and appropriate authorities to protect the lives and well being of Canadians and Canadian assets.



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> What do you think we need to be prepared for it?



A sizable force such as the current size of the Canadian forces is sufficient to satisfy Canada's security needs. Even though its comparatively small to our neighbors its only logical since their population is 10x higher and our military power does not complement political motivation such as with the states. I must admit its a pain in the butt to wait in such a long line but I understand that Canada's military does have its mission, budget and expenditures controlled to meet the Federal budget and diplomacy or whatnot.

*With all due respect* to all related to the forums and of this general matter. The military operates within its confines of its government despite protests by a lot of people like people waiting in line at the CFRCs. After rereading what I wrote, I sound like a smart-ass but I must acknowledge the fact that the Forces is doing a satisfactory job in its duties and that its size and budget is a matter of the federal government not within the jurisdiction of the forces. Even though it is a tedious wait, I will continue to wait for my intention is to serve such an amazing organization.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Certainly, we all have opinions, but we've also found that unsubstantiated discussion over subjects like "should the army be bigger", "what plane we should fly", etc., lead to a lot of useless noise when there's no justifications for the rectally extracted numbers and equipment types that get thrown around when they aren't controlled by realistic deliberation.  If you really think the army should be bigger, convince us, using real world data that there's a need and show us how it can be done in way that would convince the Canadians that will have to pay for it.



I don't work in the intelligence industry, I don't have the resources.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> And what would dying for your country accomplish?  Please spare us jingoistic platitudes.  Death is a very real possibility in military service, but the sane ones amongst us don't intend to go there willingly.  We certainly don't need soldiers with a death wish.



"Willing" is obviously the key word here. Anybody who joins the ARMY not knowing there is a very good chance of going to WAR is an IDIOT.


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## George Wallace (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> "Willing" is obviously the key word here. Anybody who joins the ARMY not knowing there is a very good chance of going to WAR is an IDIOT.



Seems a lot of them joined the US Forces and have since attempted to claim Refugee Status here in Canada.


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## George Wallace (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I don't work in the intelligence industry, I don't have the resources.




It is called GOOGLEFU.  Most of us have it.  Why don't you?


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

Insert Name Here said:
			
		

> I believe its Terrorism since Canada is a NATO aligned nation, threats of terrorism do come occasionally, like  not so long ago where the 3 men from Ottawa and London plotted and/or conspired in an attack against government infrastructures. Funny how he was on Canadian idol too. Other than terrorism, occasional violations of Russian patrol aircraft in the Arctic and extreme weather that necessitated deployment of the forces i think it was "operation Recuperation"? Not really a threat but not conducive to the well being of Canadians alike.
> 
> When? Anytime. How? anyway. Where? anywhere. Murphy's law tells us to assume the worst. Living in this age after the cold war brings us memories of the past with rising economic/super/militarized powers and already existing nuclear stockpiles the world can easily be mobilized into war with a click of a button. Even though it may seem peaceful, all it takes is one wrong move to cause a chain reaction.
> 
> ...



Very good post, it's nice to see somebody with a realistic view on the topic.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

cdnleaf said:
			
		

> Mainse, I was more curious about what your motivation is/was in posting this topic, and have read your other thread concerning leaving high school and recruiting posted last year.  I presume during the time that you have been waiting;  you have not gone back to school, are waiting for the call or have abandoned your efforts to join.  Regardless, if you truly desire to be part of the organization, then it may come down to making yourself more competitive with other applicants - one way is to finish high school.
> 
> I received the same advice 24 odd years ago from a RCR Sgt at CFRC Toronto, when I was 16.  He stated quite politely that he could take my application, however highly recommended that I come back in a couple of years once I had my diploma and promised the military would still be there.  In hindsight now after an amazing 23 year run with the CF, it was the best initial advice I received.
> 
> You can obviously continue to post topics such as this, though I don't believe any of the responses will articulate what you want to hear.  All the best and please:   :dontfeedmods:



My motivation was boredom. Infantry does not require a high school diploma, and it has no effect on your career. The only reason they suggest it is because most people can't cut it in the ARMY. I know I can, and have no need for a diploma.


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## GAP (8 Nov 2010)

Ahh.....to be so young and .............


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## aesop081 (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I know I can, and have no need for a diploma.



LMFAO.......

Get used to this phrase : "Do you want fries with that ?"


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

I bet nobody that posts on this forum is actually in the COMBAT arms.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

There's never any HOORAH, never any congrats for wanting to serve your country, you guys are constantly condescending. I take it most of you are actually navy or air force if you're in the army it's probably as a postal clerk or something. Thanks for your constant pessimism, you are a shining beacon of hope for our country. 

Thankyou for preparing me for the kind of attitudes I'll face from the officers coming out of RMC. Fucking know it alls. Peace.


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## Towards_the_gap (8 Nov 2010)

How do you know who is combat arms or not?


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

I don't know for sure who IS man enough to be combat arms. But I can sure spot the ones that aren't.


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## krustyrl (8 Nov 2010)

:          :boring:


.......whatever.


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## Veiledal (8 Nov 2010)

why is this thread still going?  ???


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## aesop081 (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I bet nobody that posts on this forum is actually in the COMBAT arms.





			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> I don't know for sure who IS man enough to be combat arms. But I can sure spot the ones that aren't.



I spent 11 years as a combat engineer and 2 tours overseas...........you have done what ?


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## GAP (8 Nov 2010)

You really have no clue to the calibre of the people you are talking at.....they've walked the walk, you never have. Just because your juvenile nose is out of joint, you would be wise to listen to the veterans who have walked in the shoes you so disdainfully dismiss.... :


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

If you guys were leaders you wouldn't come in here to run me down and jump on every word and tell me I won't cut it in the Army. That's the ONLY attitude I've seen from you folks, you wouldn't act this way if we were face to face. You would see I'm a real person with noble intentions and a good motivation. Pisses me off to no extent.


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## aesop081 (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> you wouldn't act this way if we were face to face.



I dont believe i ever said you couldn't cut it but my office is always open if you want to see what i am like in person.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

I was talking to the guy that said I would be working in mcdonalds, and thinking about the past when I posted about joining and mentioned I left highschool and the replies i got were OMFG IF u ArEN't DEDICATED enUfF 4 SkeWlL hOW uGunAA GeT Thru BasiCz OMFG BBQWTFz!!!1111!!!1111!!11


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

I'm done posting here, expect to see me again in about a year to tell you all the stuff it.


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## aesop081 (8 Nov 2010)

Kid, do yourself a favour a take a deep breath. The army is going to come at you like a ton of bricks.


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## RabbitSwiftness (8 Nov 2010)

Earlier in the thread you were discussing threats to Canadian security as the reasons of you wanting to join the Canadian forces and using the concept of fighting terrorism, to my understanding its not the job and duty of Canadian Forces to fight terrorism/terrorist organizations.  

My understanding of the Canadian Forces was to be a largely Peace Keeping type military as well the normal at times of war and protection of Canadian sovereignty. 

It's also my understanding that canadian forces in afghanistan combat-involvement will end soon and will change to non-combat involvement in the region potentially until 2014, mostly revolving around helping the afghanistan military training and what not. So if you were thinking of joining and going to 
Afghanistan to "fight terrorism or terrorist organizations/etc", I feel you will be largely disappointed in this when you realize that the Canadian forces are not the United States Military.


perhaps this organization interests you :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Safety_Canada  (Canadian version of Homeland security)


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## George Wallace (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I bet nobody that posts on this forum is actually in the COMBAT arms.




 :

Go back to school.  You'll need it.  Joining the CF will mean that you need those skills, and also mean that you are back in school learning how to be a professional.

As for who on this forum is actually in the Cbt Arms; well obviously you wouldn't know one if they hit you in the face.  I wonder who you think you have been yakking at?


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## PMedMoe (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> most people can't cut it in the ARMY. I know I can



Playing WoW and other video games does not necessarily make you able to "cut it" in the Army.   :


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## George Wallace (8 Nov 2010)

RabbitSwiftness said:
			
		

> My understanding of the Canadian Forces was to be a largely Peace Keeping type military as well the normal at times of war and protection of Canadian sovereignty.



Sorry.  Wrong.  I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but the Canadian Forces are not "a largely Peace Keeping type military".  They are an ARMED force capable of fighting wars, and thus able to tone it down and do Peacekeeping.  They are first and foremost trained for WAR.


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## untouchables (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I was talking to the guy that said I would be working in mcdonalds, and thinking about the past when I posted about joining and mentioned I left highschool and the replies i got were OMFG IF u ArEN't DEDICATED enUfF 4 SkeWlL hOW uGunAA GeT Thru BasiCz OMFG BBQWTFz!!!1111!!!1111!!11



Calm down bud, Im 100% positive that the poster who mentioned that had incorrectly presented it. Allow me to interpret  it in a way  we *understand*.   Stay with me brother/sister.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but:

What he said reflects upon today's employment statistics: The more "sheets of paper" you have, the more likely you are to be employed. 
*AND THIS IS  ALSO TRUE*  in the forces, the more qualifications you have in the civil field, the more trades you are eligible in the forces. For example a young individual such as *you* and I would love to join the forces whether it be Regular or Reserve, and that our specific trade requires some qualifications in the civil field for example: You want to be an officer, but your education is at the absolute minimum for the trade eligibility. On such example is an infantry officer which requires a university degree and occasionally college diplomas(Source forces.ca). Now its always possible to go up the ranks but that would take you years of service and rare opportunities. We want to *maximize* those chances thus we have to achieve a higher level of education. And supposing you get into the forces, didn't like it and  got a voluntary release or dishonorable release due to misconduct or what not, and you find your self back on the civil street looking for a job that can pay the bills for your beautiful wife and junior there. Now this is just a random scenario but close to realistic i can think on the spot. 

Bottom line: That person wants you to maximize your opportunities in the forces and the general workforce so that you have the flexibility to adapt to the dynamic workforce in Canada that requires *qualifications* and at the same time be eligible for the many trades available to you in the forces. I personally don't need anyone telling me that, because I live in it and I'm preparing for it.

I can see your honourable intentions, and I respect and admire that. However you must also listen to the veterans who speak in this forum, Like in this thread all the experienced ones are talking to you. Consider yourself lucky you have so many suggestions and answers. Every mistake you make is an opportunity to learn, let alone all the experience these guys have to share. I understand and admit that the flashy emblems and titles under their usernames are pretty intimidating, but their objective in the forum is to help people like you and I who need help being admitting into the forces, Its only fair that we listen and reply politely.

Best wishes Brother/sister.


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## Nauticus (8 Nov 2010)

I'm going to give you a reasonable response to your otherwise unreasonable comments.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> My motivation was boredom. Infantry does not require a high school diploma, and it has no effect on your career. The only reason they suggest it is because most people can't cut it in the ARMY. I know I can, and have no need for a diploma.


Infantry does not require a high school diploma, but you will be *less competitive* to those applying for infantry who already have one. In addition, it *will* hinder your career in the CF because there are many roles and jobs down the road that will exclude you from pursuing if you do not have a high school diploma. You don't need one for infantry, but much of your later career will be hindered for your lack of one. That is, if you even get accepted in the CF considering you may be less competitive for a position than others who have applied for the same trade.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> There's never any HOORAH, never any congrats for wanting to serve your country, you guys are constantly condescending. I take it most of you are actually navy or air force if you're in the army it's probably as a postal clerk or something. Thanks for your constant pessimism, you are a shining beacon of hope for our country.
> 
> Thankyou for preparing me for the kind of attitudes I'll face from the officers coming out of RMC. ******* know it alls. Peace.


The fact of the matter is, as in the CF, to gain respect you have to earn it. You've just spent this entire thread trying to tell us that what we're doing is wrong, and you've then jumped on board with offending *serving members* of our Forces. Many of the people you have offended have been overseas more than once. And those who are Air Force, Navy, or even a postal clerk take offense to your obvious ignorance on how our military runs.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> I don't know for sure who IS man enough to be combat arms. But I can sure spot the ones that aren't.


How can you do that? How many years of experience do you have in Combat Arms? Have you served the country in any way? Will you even be accepted and can you pass your initial training? If you can't prove any of that, you absolutely should not be judging anyone who already has.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> If you guys were leaders you wouldn't come in here to run me down and jump on every word and tell me I won't cut it in the Army. That's the ONLY attitude I've seen from you folks, you wouldn't act this way if we were face to face. You would see I'm a real person with noble intentions and a good motivation. Pisses me off to no extent.


It's good that you are motivated. But this thread is just you complaining that you aren't in yet, disguised as a discussion that you are unqualified to make. Additionally, any advice that you have been given in this thread has been very solid advice, and you've ignored it all or responded with even more evidence that you have no idea what you're getting yourself into.



			
				mainse-event said:
			
		

> I was talking to the guy that said I would be working in mcdonalds, and thinking about the past when I posted about joining and mentioned I left highschool and the replies i got were OMFG IF u ArEN't DEDICATED enUfF 4 SkeWlL hOW uGunAA GeT Thru BasiCz OMFG BBQWTFz!!!1111!!!1111!!11


Why did you quit high school? Being still young, you haven't had much time to prove that you're able to stick to something until it's completion, _and_ being young you also have not had much time to obtain qualifications or experience to make yourself a competitive candidate in the very large sea of applicants for the trade you are applying to. Failing to complete high school is simply making it more difficult for you to 1) Get a job with the CF; 2) Progress appropriately through the CF should you get accepted; and 3) Get a civilian job and career if you are unsuccessful with the CF.

Again, if you communicate respectfully and ask questions and actually take the advice seriously, I and others here would be more than happy to discuss what you have to do to get in and provide you suggestions *based on our experience* that you do not have yet. Nobody is "out to get you", we merely respond in the matter that you originally approach us.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

Insert Name Here said:
			
		

> Calm down bud, Im 100% positive that the poster who mentioned that had incorrectly presented it. Allow me to interpret  it in a way  we *understand*.   Stay with me brother/sister.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong but:
> 
> ...



Thank you for talking to me like a human being. Appreciate it.


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## untouchables (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> Thank you for talking to me like a human being. Appreciate it.



Hey no problem, we all have our problems and sometimes people just don't agree, but it takes perseverance and understanding to acknowledge small details in life.
...hmm I sound too old for my age. Whatever, hopefully your application is successful mines "gettin' reved" up after hearing one of my references were contacted.

Any-who good luck who yours.

Stay Frosty.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

I apologize for the way I acted in this thread. I felt like you guys were kind of condescending, it's hard to tell on the internet what somebody is really trying to say. I was being a child, and you were all right. I never disagreed with the main fact that the army was full, to be honest I don't know why I made the thread. I was feeling a bit discouraged, and was hoping for a pick me up from you guys. It would have been awesome to hear, "don't worry man, it'll happen for you someday, just be patient, and good luck". I went about it the wrong way, again I apologize. 

It's a growth experience for me, I wan't to stay present in this community because I think you guys have a vast amount of knowledge, and I would like to post now and in the future as a CF member.


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## aesop081 (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> It's a growth experience for me,



And that experience doesnt stop once you get in. Good luck and please, think about your long term future.


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## mainse-event (8 Nov 2010)

Why did you quit high school? 

I'll answer this one. When I dropped out, I was 100% certain that I intended on joining the army as a grunt and staying there until I was too old to serve. I wrongly believed that nothing I was learning was relevant. I see the error in my ways now, but I have my Maths and I continue to learn through self education on the internet and in books.


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## untouchables (8 Nov 2010)

mainse-event said:
			
		

> I apologize for the way I acted in this thread. I felt like you guys were kind of condescending, it's hard to tell on the internet what somebody is really trying to say. I was being a child, and you were all right. I never disagreed with the main fact that the army was full, to be honest I don't know why I made the thread. I was feeling a bit discouraged, and was hoping for a pick me up from you guys. It would have been awesome to hear, "don't worry man, it'll happen for you someday, just be patient, and good luck". I went about it the wrong way, again I apologize.
> 
> It's a growth experience for me, I wan't to stay present in this community because I think you guys have a vast amount of knowledge, and I would like to post now and in the future as a CF member.



Good to hear that you saw through. I was in your shoes a more than half a year ago being discouraged and demotivated, but as time goes by we will eventually learn that patience is key not only in the forces but also in life. Stay on the forums, you will learn alot and always be updated on recent development. Like just now I learned that my references are being contacted. Which hopefully means the recruitment system is moving again.

Best wishes to you and to all.


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## CombatDoc (8 Nov 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Playing WoW and other video games does not necessarily make you able to "cut it" in the Army.   :


There you go, PMM, bursting my bubble.  I have a reserved copy of the next Call of Duty:Black Ops which comes out tonight at midnight, and I was hoping to glean some tactical tips from it. ;D

Seriously, Mainse-Event, you may wish to reconsider your decision to drop out of high school to enlist in the infantry.  As others have noted, lack of a high school diploma may limit your competitiveness to get in.  As importantly, even if you don't need it for infantry, when you knees/back go after a decade or so in the combat arms (assuming you get in) lack of a diploma will limit your voluntary occupational transfer opportunities.  If you weren't aware of it, the support trades are full of former combat arms soldiers who OT'ed when their bodies started to show the strain or they decided they wanted to try something different.

Disclaimer:  I am not currently, nor have I ever been, in the combat arms.  However, I have treated a few combat arms, legs, backs, etc in my career.


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## GAP (8 Nov 2010)

The-Mainse-Event said:
			
		

> Why did you quit high school?
> 
> I'll answer this one. When I dropped out, I was 100% certain that I intended on joining the army as a grunt and staying there until I was too old to serve. I wrongly believed that nothing I was learning was relevant. I see the error in my ways now, but I have my Maths and I continue to learn through self education on the internet and in books.



Seeing how the recruiting process is going to take some time, use that time to your advantage....figure out how to get back in school, in either an outreach program, 2nd chance, or what ever they are called in your area. You have a goal, go for it, but arm yourself with credentials....Luck!!

A couple of my sons entered a program when they quit like you. The program allowed them to work and study at the same time. BTW...one of them is in the forces now, and in large part because he had the drive to go back and get his grade 12.....


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## mwc (8 Nov 2010)

Yes definitely consider going back to get your gr.12 or GED. Myself, I'm Currently finishing up my last year in the Electrical Trades. Hard to believe that I am going to have done half of my college while waiting to get into the Combat Arms. Doesn't hurt to have a fall back/ plan B.


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## Nauticus (9 Nov 2010)

The-Mainse-Event said:
			
		

> I apologize for the way I acted in this thread. I felt like you guys were kind of condescending, it's hard to tell on the internet what somebody is really trying to say. I was being a child, and you were all right. I never disagreed with the main fact that the army was full, to be honest I don't know why I made the thread. I was feeling a bit discouraged, and was hoping for a pick me up from you guys. It would have been awesome to hear, "don't worry man, it'll happen for you someday, just be patient, and good luck". I went about it the wrong way, again I apologize.
> 
> It's a growth experience for me, I wan't to stay present in this community because I think you guys have a vast amount of knowledge, and I would like to post now and in the future as a CF member.


That's fair. I know it can get discouraging, but if you really want it, you *will* get it. It may take some time, but if the CF is really what you want, you will get your chance. Just remember that it may be difficult getting in, but it doesn't get easier once you're part of the CF. It's always a challenge, and that's why we (and you) will enjoy it.



			
				The-Mainse-Event said:
			
		

> Why did you quit high school?
> 
> I'll answer this one. When I dropped out, I was 100% certain that I intended on joining the army as a grunt and staying there until I was too old to serve. I wrongly believed that nothing I was learning was relevant. I see the error in my ways now, but I have my Maths and I continue to learn through self education on the internet and in books.


A mistake, but it's good that you've learned from it. My advice here is to work toward your GED. It'll show the recruiters that you are better than the minimum requirement, make your file that much more competitive, and prepare you for a long term venture with the Canadian Forces.

No hard feelings, and I wish you luck on your application process. If you do have any questions, I encourage you to post them and we can do our best to answer.


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