# Body-Building Supplements (Creatine etcetera)



## evidence

Hi, I've got one question. I'm currently weightlifting and i just started taking creatine and protein supplements, would they have any effect on my medical exam? Would they recruit me?  ???


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## patrick666

Your best option would be to call the recruiting centre and ask them. I've no experience with weightlifting or weightlifting by-products so other than that I have no other advice.

Cheers


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## medicineman

There shouldn't be a problem on the medical - creatine and protein supps (as long as that's all there really is in the stuff) wouldn't likely cause any ill effects that would be picked up and shouldn't disqualify you for anything.

Cheers

MM


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## evidence

Thank's for the advice guys i appreciate it!  8)


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## CEhopeful

I recently started taking creatine, but I havea  few worries. I am worried that when I go to basic and stop taking it that it will screw me over to to strength loss, and the gaining of fat and the loss of muscle, and help would be great.Thank you.


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## 043

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> I recently started taking creatine, but I havea  few worries. I am worried that when I go to basic and stop taking it that it will screw me over to to strength loss, and the gaining of fat and the loss of muscle, and help would be great.Thank you.



If you can't do the minimum standard required for the PT test with out creatine, you are in trouble.


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## toughenough

It's just been fairly recently that people have started to use creatine all of the time. Traditionally it was cycled in 6 week cycles. I still do cycles when taking it.

I never notice much of a difference in strength when on or off.

You need to understand how creatine works, and what it actually does. It's purpose is to rush water into your muscles. Depending on who you speak with, this inflates them and makes them look bigger (I never believed that). This is why you have to drink like crazy when you are on creatine to stay hydrated. The benefit is that when the water goes into your muscle, it takes with it the nutrients from your body. This essentially speeds the process of geting nutrients to your muscle. The faster the nutrients get there, the fast the muscle can recover. Recovering faster allows you to workout more often. Rather than doing a full body every 3 days, now maybe you can do one every 2 days, allowing you to cram in an extra session a week.

So, will you lose any of your strength? Not if you take care of yourself. Will you you recover slower? Once it is out of your system, yes. I wouldn't be so worried about it. Just run a couple of cycles before hand so that you can predict how your body will react.

And do your research BEFORE you start taking products, otherwise you're going to get ripped off, and possible screw up your body.


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## ps387

I'm on BMQ right now (8th week) and one of the guys just got written up for using creatine. Especially bad since it was found during the Div Cmdr's inspection by the RSM. I'm not sure if it's a school rule or just our staff, but it was clearly stated at the beginning of my course that NO supplements are allowed.

Cheers


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## Patrolman

Don't waste your money. When doing your course there will be little time to worry about mixing creatine and even less time to seriously work out. Water retention,diarrhea, and stomach bloating is all it did for me. Dehydration can also become an issue, another reason why it is not recommended for those on course. It is hard enough keeping fluids in your system without taking supplements that take water away from where it should be going.


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## Dinger_ca

Hey Everyone,
I really hope I'm not repeating any posts, I did some research and couldnt find any postings on here about taking Creatine suppliments to help build muscle, my question is this, does the CF consider Creatine a banned substance or are they looking for illegal drugs when they do the drug testing?
And yes I will be calling the recuiting centre about this as well
Thanks everyone


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## Pte AJB

During my interview I was using a variety of your typical muscle supplements, protein, creatine, and glutamine. They will ask you about any supplements you have been taking, be honest, and it will be fine. As long as it is legal, you're in the clear. Though, I would advise you not to use it on course, you'll likely already be drinking a lot to keep you hydrated, and creatine would likely exacerbate the problem of keeping your self properly hydrated during course. Though, that is just my two cents. 

Hope this helps, 

AJB


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## the 48th regulator

Uhuh,


Creatine search



			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> There shouldn't be a problem on the medical - creatine and protein supps (as long as that's all there really is in the stuff) wouldn't likely cause any ill effects that would be picked up and shouldn't disqualify you for anything.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> MM




Took me more time to type this, than it did to find an answer.

cheers,

dileas

tess


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## stefwills

Will there be any problems taking creatine and going for a medical test (urine) during my ROTP screening? i.e. Will it hinder the likelyhood of being selected?


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## Armymedic

The increased levels of creatine in your urine will cause further investigations by medical staff. As how it will affect your enrollment medical fitness, I do not know.

As stated somewhere before, don't waste your money.


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## WannaBeFlyer

> diarrhea, and stomach bloating is all it did for me


I'll second that. I got sick of drinking chalky grape juice (especially during the "loading phase") and having enough time to read the entire paper in the bathroom. Blech. I haven't touched it in years, but I can still taste it and my stomach tightens up just thinking about it. Classic flavour aversion I guess; my system just didn't agree with it even after trying a couple of different brands.



> I never notice much of a difference in strength when on or off.


I agree with that statement also. I noticed the most results when I followed a strict diet and ate frequently.

Spend your money at the grocery store on the right foods instead. Good luck.


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## ixium

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> The increased levels of creatine in your urine will cause further investigations by medical staff. As how it will affect your enrollment medical fitness, I do not know.
> 
> As stated somewhere before, don't waste your money.


I realize you're a medtech, but is excess creatine even looked for at the enrollment medical? The pee strips only test for generic things like blood and protein and other things, but pretty sure not creatine.

I used to mix in creatine with protein mix(and told the medical officer doing my recruitment medical) and had no problems with the medical. As for the creatine helping or not, I had no ill effects from it and felt a little more 'plump' from it, but whether it was a mind over matter kind of thing I'm not sure.

I stopped taking it at the start of December and leave for BMQ on the 5th of January, just incase I had some weird reaction from not taking it.


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## Rochester

It's good that you stopped using it, I found that it was only artificial results anyways. Don't worry about any strength loss, any muscle and strength that were gained while using it will still be there just the excess water that has causes your muscles to swell up and, supposedly, heal more quickly will go away so you will look a bit smaller, but won't be any weaker. And as for getting fatter, I didn't get that when I stopped using it, plus you'll be at basic so you're going to get your fair share of exercising. Eventually your body will adapt to the soreness that you get from a good workout and learn to heal better and faster on its own, so you won't be missing the creatine. Good Luck.


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## sm1lodon

My own experience with Creatine:

Hardcore power bodybuilding (drug free, relax) and running about 4 miles twice a week while taking creatine: Drove to the top of Haleakala on Maui (10,080 ft altitude) and was puffing and panting while slowly walking up and down the stairs to the observation hut.

Not taking creatine, still hardcore power bodybuilding, a year or so later, no aerobic training whatsoever: Drove to the top of Haleakala and was running up and down the stairs all over the top region like a gazelle.

Creatine helped me be stronger, do more sets and reps (I noted a next-DAY increase in power when I first started using it) for weight training. For aerobic work, however, it seemed to have the opposite effect. I was taking large doses of it, though, and I weighed around 260-270 lower-than-the-average-person level of fat at the time.

Deadlift was up around 495, squat around 315 at this time.

When I used more moderate doses of creatine, I could jog 10.5 miles at a bodyweight of 270 at sea level.

I have never specifically tried it to increase my aerobic endurance or such. It WAS fun having the steroid users ask me what I was on, however.


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## blacktriangle

I had weird breathing problems around the same time I used creatine, not sure if they were related but I decided it wasn't worth it and just chose to eat better and workout harder. Paid off in the end.


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## geo

ps said:
			
		

> I'm on BMQ right now (8th week) and one of the guys just got written up for using creatine. Especially bad since it was found during the Div Cmdr's inspection by the RSM. I'm not sure if it's a school rule or just our staff, but it was clearly stated at the beginning of my course that NO supplements are allowed.
> Cheers



No it is not a school rule....
Troops have been put on C&P for having, using & dealing to others.  I know of one person who was RTUd from KAF for same.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> No it is not a school rule....
> Troops have been put on C&P for having, using & dealing to others.  I know of one person who was RTUd from KAF for same.



'Dealing' creatine? WTF, over. You can get that stuff at your local supplement store. It's not an illegal substance, and C&P seems like quite the overkill (in fact, there shouldn't be any disciplinary/administrative measures taken period, and it's not an illegal substance like anadrol, synthol etc). Yes, it's banned on BMQ (and I believe when you deploy overseas), but beyond that it's not illegal. 

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of someone juicing.


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## geo

I don't know the full details - just know that the fella shipped a large inventory of the stuff over with him - in spite of having been told not to.  Also, the quantities that he brought over were far and beyond the quantities he would need for himself....

And no - it was creatine.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> I don't know the full details - just know that the fella shipped a large inventory of the stuff over with him - in spite of having been told not to.  Also, the quantities that he brought over were far and beyond the quantities he would need for himself....
> 
> And no - it was creatine.



Ack, I thought you were referring to someone who was using it in the shacks or something as opposed to a guy shipping it overseas. And why someone would want to take a moisture sucking supplement in an environment like Afghanistan is beyond my comprehension....



Seeing as there are so many topics on supplements, I'm going to launch into a mini rant here, as I've experimented with some supplements (all legal) and know many people who are into bodybuilding etc and who juice. I find that its the young folk like myself who are so obsessed with finding that magic pill or powder that will make them into the next Jay Cutler without any ill effects. The reality is, 99.9% of the stuff on the shelves of your local Garbage N' Crap (GNC) or other 'nutrition' store is JUNK. Absolute JUNK. Beyond your basic protein powders (which are generally good, as anyone who is trying to get big knows, it's near impossible to get enough protein each day unless you want to eat7-8 chicken breasts a day and mounds of dry, disgusting cottage cheese. Good quality protein shakes are a low carb and easy way to get the needed protein AND cut back on how much you eat....have a shake instead of a snack/meal), anything else is a waste of money and has more of a placebo effect then anything else. 

This goes for creatine, fat burners, 'synthetic testosterone' (the real stuff is illegal), NOXplode etc etc etc. It's all JUNK. The only supplements that you can take that will actually have an effect that was worth the money are anadrol, synthol, HGH, clen, etc....all of which are illegal and will eventually cause vital organs (liver and the family jewels) to shut down for good. 

In other words...STAY AWAY FROM SUPPLEMENTS. Just stay away. I know you think you look cool in the gym with a blender bottle beside you...but you're just wasting money. Want to take some extra protein? Go for it, can't hurt. Want to take the next step up into creatine etc or even juice? Don't bother. The only people who should be taking anything else are pro body builders who have professional trainers getting them what they need. Same goes for steroids, Jay Cutler and other massive monsters can juice all they want. But I guarentee that you don't have the knowledge and skill to juice without killing yourself or making your testicles disappear. My friend has a shirt that says 'Ask me about Chemistry', and for good reason. But he'll be Mr. Olympia 2015....not you. So, DON'T JUICE. I know it's tempting and it looks easy, but unless you maintain a diet so strict it'll make you want to die and workout so hard you fall over...you'll do nothing but destroy your body. Despite what you think, juice is not magic and requires MORE dedication and effort to get results then if you just worked out normally. 

I'm no poster boy for fitness, far from it, but I know a thing or two about the supplement world (I used to work with alot of meat-heads and juicers) and what it can do, and what it can't. And most of it is can't, unless you know exactly what you're doing. Me, I take protein. I'll be starting a new diet soon (no bread, no pasta, no cheese, no processed food, no soda....essentially only chicken, rice, cottage cheese, veggies, fruit and shakes) and I work out with a trainer. Does it work? Yup (well, eventually it will, last semesters dieting wasn't so good). Did I need a laundry list of chemicals? No.

Seriously, just say no. Stay away from the GNC and other such stores. If you have a trainer, ask him/her for advice if you really are interested. Or consult a diet specialist. They may recommend protein, but not much else. Save you're money and use it to buy quality groceries and to pay a personal trainer. Those two things will do more for you then any of the junk the so-called 'nutrition specialists' at the Garbage N' Crap will push on you. 

Unless you know what you're doing, don't take it.


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## Narcisse

I took protein (Maxi mass) , creatine (NOXplode, Cell Mass, Decastack), Pro hormones (Superdrol, M1T like...), Testosterone (Tribulus) when I was training in secondary 5, I was 16 years old. I get from 100 lbs to 150 lbs in about 3 months. That was awesome. But I stopped. And dropped to 130 lbs. So I lost 20 lbs really really really fast and it's surely because of the creatine that was in my preworkout stock. Anyway, I would say that the 600$ that I put in all those products was REALLY a LOST OF MONEY. If I had been patient and train hard and regularly, I would had get where I am now, but clean.

Don't take the easy way, work hard to achieve your goal, all these stuff are not necessary. I would say It's okay for bodybuilder but we're not. And creatine surely affect cardio. Never negligee cardio. It's the key for being in shape !


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## geo

Piper....
Even easier than what you so eloquently proposed, people should pay more attention to what they eat AND how much they eat.  Look at the packaging and see what ONE portion really is.  ONE portion of pasta, ONE portion of rice, ONE portion of anything .... cause you,re only eating for one.... not a full section.

- Soda... lotsa & I mean LOTSA sugar & the salt from the carbonation.... 
- Problem with Bread, potatoes, rice & apsta is that they are all starch & you shouldn't be taking more than one of them at any one sitting.

instead of talking to a DIETician... you should be talking to a NUTRITIONist..... someone who looks & listens to what you eat & helps you step around dietary no-nos... not someone who tells you that everything that tastes good is bad for you... cause that's what's going to get you angry and make you fall off the wagon.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> Piper....
> Even easier than what you so eloquently proposed, people should pay more attention to what they eat AND how much they eat.  Look at the packaging and see what ONE portion really is.  ONE portion of pasta, ONE portion of rice, ONE portion of anything .... cause you,re only eating for one.... not a full section.
> 
> - Soda... lotsa & I mean LOTSA sugar & the salt from the carbonation....
> - Problem with Bread, potatoes, rice & apsta is that they are all starch & you shouldn't be taking more than one of them at any one sitting.
> 
> instead of talking to a DIETician... you should be talking to a NUTRITIONist..... someone who looks & listens to what you eat & helps you step around dietary no-nos... not someone who tells you that everything that tastes good is bad for you... cause that's what's going to get you angry and make you fall off the wagon.



Nutritionist is the word I was looking for, not sure why I said dietician. You're exactly right of course, dieting can work BUT you need to ensure that what you're eating will provide you with enough nutrients and energy to get you through your day. Nothing is worse then seeing someone on some stupid 'grapefruit diet' who looses 30 pounds, but then gains it right back when they go on an eating spree because all they've eaten for 2 months was gapefruit. Me personally, I'm going on a pretty restrictive diet for a couple of reasons. But generally, you can still eat great tasting food while maintaining a healthy weight. 

It's even as simple as when you go out for dinner, skip an appetiser and the pre-dinner bread they usually bring. Or when you're making a pasta dinner, skip making the garlic bread. Or when you're eating, wait 10 minutes after your first plate before you get seconds...to ensure that you're actually still hungry (it takes around 10 minutes for the stomache to tell your brain that you're full). I've practiced neither of those things, hence my more painful diet. However, it's just simple things like those described above that can make a huge difference. Instead of an (albeit delicious) sandwich every day for lunch (which has bread, cheese, mayo, butter etc etc) switch it up and only have one every 2-3 days and have rice cakes and tuna, or salad, or cottage cheese on the other days. 

Nurition is so simple, I just wish I had known more about it before.


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## geo

Biggest point is to TAKE YOUR TIME while eating.
It takes time for your stomach to let your brain know that it's FULL.

If you scarf down a large plate of food in the time it takes me to blink my eyes, your stomach won't have time to pass the message......  

So, take the time to come up for a breath of fresh air - drink water (which will also contribute to filling up the stomach)

Also... Piper... Skip the MAYO - tastes great BUT the calories in 1 or 2 large tablespoons of the stuff will kill ya 
butter, cheese AND mayo ???  EGGADS !


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## IntlBr

+1 to everything that Piper has said, as it is dead-on - but I won't hesitate to mention that everything he said PLUS a daily multi-vitamin will be all you need.  Other than protein, the only supplement I buy now is Mega-Men dailies from the old GNC.  That isn't a plug for the product or the store, but more the idea.  Ensuring your vitamin levels are topped off will keep you healthy, especially when changing your diet to something more restrictive.

I remember when I started working out when I was around 16 as a twiggy 153 lb, 6'2" giant and I asked the gym owner for advice on how to put on weight and muscle mass.  His advice was "You come here five days a week, and you start eating pizza."  And by God, he was right.  You have to eat big to get big, but to get big in the right places and ways, you need to be almost religiously active.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> Biggest point is to TAKE YOUR TIME while eating.
> It takes time for your stomach to let your brain know that it's FULL.
> 
> If you scarf down a large plate of food in the time it takes me to blink my eyes, your stomach won't have time to pass the message......
> 
> So, take the time to come up for a breath of fresh air - drink water (which will also contribute to filling up the stomach)
> 
> Also... Piper... Skip the MAYO - tastes great BUT the calories in 1 or 2 large tablespoons of the stuff will kill ya
> butter, cheese AND mayo ???  EGGADS !



Haha, I don't use mayo. Just going by what I see other people doing. But I does love my butter. 

My achilles heel is eating fast, I can't seem to break the habit (summer trg with 2 min to eat ruined me). 

Your diet all depends on what you want. If you want to get big, it's one style of diet and if you want to cut, it's another style. And if you want to just maintain your weight, again, it's another style. I'm no expert and it's best to use common sense, consult a nutritionist or personal trainer and just step back and look at what you're eating.


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## geo

Healthy eating isn't all that hard..... you can even splurge on some ''junk food'' once and a while BUT, if you make the junk part of your day to day lifestyle..... you'll be going to ''pot'' soon enough.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> Healthy eating isn't all that hard..... you can even splurge on some ''junk food'' once and a while BUT, if you make the junk part of your day to day lifestyle..... you'll be going to ''pot'' soon enough.



And thats why we have cheat days.... ;D (however, one must remember that a cheat day is not a day to gorge, which often happens).


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## geo

Yeah... when you follow a really restrictive "diet", you end up getting really MAD at the situation & when you cheat, you go waaaaay overboard..... and that's not a good thing cause you can wipe out all the good you've been doing over the last xx days/weeks/months


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> Yeah... when you follow a really restrictive "diet", you end up getting really MAD at the situation & when you cheat, you go waaaaay overboard..... and that's not a good thing cause you can wipe out all the good you've been doing over the last xx days/weeks/months



Seen it happen (and done it myself). The key really is self control. 

My ideal cheat day would be to follow your normal daily diet with slightly reduced portions or different, lighter foods (to make up for the 'bad' food you'll eat) and replace a meal by;

- going out for brunch (have some eggs, french toast etc but go easy on the syrup, skip the butter, have peanut butter instead of jam, water instead of juice); or
- going out for lunch (have a small sandwich and some soup, or a grilled snadwich, skip the appetiser, drink water or milk instead of pop); or
- going out for dinner (skip the appetiser or share one between a group of people, skip meals with heavy cream-based sauces, have asian-type foods or foods with hot spices (can help raise your metabolism), have a steak or ribs instead of a burger, have unbreaded wings instead of breaded wings, have water instead of pop or beer, skip dessert or share it among a group).

Now this is my ideal, I love going out for dinner etc (I should buy shares in Moxies). The key is to a) go with someone who will keep you honest and b) remember that one meal of gorging will negate WEEKS of good eating. Weeks, not days..weeks. A cheat day is not a day to at a whole large pizza hut stuffed crust meat lovers (mmmm yummy) pizza to yourself (although by all means share with a group, and skip the stuffed crust part as painful as that may be) or to go out to an all you can eat buffet and eat more then you can eat (although again, by all means go to a buffet but eat small portions and keep youself in check). A cheat day is a day to reward yourself for the good dieting you've done without ruining all your good work.


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## geo

Ayup...
lots of little things......
Breakfast - take a small glass of juice - not a giant sized glass.  Figure how much juice comes out of ONE orange.
Measure the recommended portion - probably 1 cup.
Skip the sugar in your coffee - if necessary, use one of those other sweeteners BUT, if you are having good coffee, it doesn't need anything more.

Instead of those regular pops, have Coke ZERO - has the same taste as the regular stuff.... without the sugar.

Most of the suggestions you have made are very valid... I approve ;D

All in all, I do not think that you will have a cheat DAY.
Cheat on ONE meal.... NEVER three in a row.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> Ayup...
> lots of little things......
> Breakfast - take a small glass of juice - not a giant sized glass.  Figure how much juice comes out of ONE orange.
> Measure the recommended portion - probably 1 cup.
> Skip the sugar in your coffee - if necessary, use one of those other sweeteners BUT, if you are having good coffee, it doesn't need anything more.
> 
> Instead of those regular pops, have Coke ZERO - has the same taste as the regular stuff.... without the sugar.
> 
> Most of the suggestions you have made are very valid... I approve ;D
> 
> All in all, I do not think that you will have a cheat DAY.
> Cheat on ONE meal.... NEVER three in a row.



Coke zero tastes like chalk, and I'm a Pepsi man myself.


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## geo

well... read the labels... see how much sugar you're dealing with & deal with it - I guess.


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## chris_log

geo said:
			
		

> well... read the labels... see how much sugar you're dealing with & deal with it - I guess.



I just stay away from pop, period. Water and milk, occasionally some grapefruit or peace juice (with the lowest sugar content I can find) as a treat. Thats about it. I find it's just best to stay away from pop, there's nothing good about it (and it makes you more thirsty).


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## Manticure

I've been taking creatine for just about a week but now I found that no supplements are allowed on basic training and I should have my basic training pretty soon now, after the background check and interview. Will I be ok for basic training now that I stopped taking it? Do they actually do a blood test on you there? Also I was surprised they didn't take a blood test on my medical.


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## X-mo-1979

No they wont test you.However they may take away your supplements.Thats what they use to do when I went through there....however many things have changed.


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## BlueJingo

Call the Recruiting Centre and ask to speak to the Med Staff... talk to them.

1-800-856-8488


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## HollywoodHitman

Creatine is not illegal. Period. 

Just stop taking it and continue to live your life.


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## X-mo-1979

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> Creatine is not illegal. Period.
> 
> Just stop taking it and continue to live your life.



Do they still take all that stuff away now a days?I know day 1 was bag searches and any supplements knifes etc was taken away.
Best to save your money and just dont bother taking any to basic.


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## Eye In The Sky

Creatine (methyl guanidine-acetic acid) is made up of three amino acids - Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. Your liver has the ability to combine these three amino acids and make creatine.  Otherwise, you take it as a supplement.  In no way it is an illegal substance.

When you supplement, you add more than your body normally produces, right?  Excess creatine is eventually converted into the waste product creatinine and your body gets ride of it.

I'd say your biggest concern is getting used to the benefits (especially endurance and recovery time) before BMQ then not having those benefits when you start BMQ.  Crappy time to loose some notches on the ol' power curve.  If I were you, I'd stop taking it 3 weeks or so before your BMQ at the latest.  Better to know where you are "naturally" in terms of physcial fitness IMO.


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## RecruitInWaiting

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Creatine (methyl guanidine-acetic acid) is made up of three amino acids - Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. Your liver has the ability to combine these three amino acids and make creatine.  Otherwise, you take it as a supplement.  *In no way it is an illegal substance.*
> 
> When you supplement, you add more than your body normally produces, right?  Excess creatine is eventually converted into the waste product creatinine and your body gets ride of it.
> 
> I'd say your biggest concern is getting used to the benefits (especially endurance and recovery time) before BMQ then not having those benefits when you start BMQ.  Crappy time to loose some notches on the ol' power curve.  If I were you, I'd stop taking it 3 weeks or so before your BMQ at the latest.  Better to know where you are "naturally" in terms of physcial fitness IMO.


Quoted for truth. Unless you're dosing it up to around 20-25+g a day, you're already taking in more just from food anyway . Same for glutamine...just eat well and don't waste your money. Take fish oil caps and minerals for joint health, and maybe a gainer for easy calories.


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## sky777

It is clear about using drugs.


> *3.3	CF Drug Control Program*
> 
> Notwithstanding the use of drugs for non-medicinal purposes in Canada today and the changing attitudes of some segments of society, the CF policy outlined in QR&O Chapter 20 states that no officer or NCM shall use any drug unless:
> 
> a. the member is authorized to use the drug by a qualified medical or dental practitioner for the purposes of medical treatment or dental care;
> b. the drug is contained in a non-prescription medication used by the member in accordance with the instructions accompanying the medication; and
> c. the member is required to use the drug in the course of military duties.
> Military members must exhibit reliability and a broad responsibility to maintain the integrity and reputation of the profession of arms by ensuring that positive Canadian values and Canadian military ethos guide their individual actions regarding drugs.


No questions.

My question is about food supplements like Vitamins,Minerals, Amino Acids, Herbal Extracts (Aloe,etc.)  - for well being.
I know it is prohibited to take it in BM(O)Q.What about life after Basic Training?
Shall I inform CF doctor about consuming food supplements?
What about policy using Food Supplements in Canadian Forces?


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## Pusser

Considering that much of this stuff is often sold at Canex, I wouldn't worry about it other than to say why?  Eating a proper balanced diet (which is available in the mess) will provide you with all you need.


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## runormal

I don't see why it would be an issue, but just call and ask. That way you will know for sure


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## Marshall12345

Hey all, I've looked through and couldn't find anything on this particular subject.

I've been weight lifting quite frequently over the last year and I have been taking protein supplements (whey, mass gainer). I also have taken preworkouts which are legal products you take before you workout to give you a extra energy. One of the preworkouts I've been taking 'jack3d' I just found out fails you on a drug test saying you are doing amphetamines - right after reading this I threw it all out seeing as I don't want to ruin a career over this.

I just recently got my CFAT completed. Next is the medical and I'm assuming a drug test. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if it will put off the drug test? It is 100% legal protein, but I don't know if it will put something off on the drug test. If it does, would I have a opportunity to explain myself to them? I don't think it would set it off but I am worried.

Any advice?


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## Jimmy_D

You should be good to go as long as its has been properly tested and passed by Canadian Food standards.

On the same note you should go to a local GNC store and inquire to them about the contents of the product and ask them that question as well.

Also. depending on what the results are on your blood and urine test, they may ask you for another appointment for further evaluation or push your enrolment time back or they completely dismiss you (very unlikely unless serious enough) if they find something they don't like.

JD


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## PMedMoe

I don't think drug testing is done on enrolment.  That being said, when you do the medical and they ask about medications, include prescription and non-prescription ones (e.g. OTCs, vitamins, energy boosters, etc).


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## astecki

Having just completed the application process (Reg F) and been merit listed, I can confirm (for my application, anyway) that there was no blood/urine draw during the medical.

Having spent a significant portion of the time after the CFAT filling out the "What drugs do you have experience with" sheet (and getting a stern lecture during the interview about treating my body as a pharmacy during my younger days  :blotto I was certainly surprised not to have to provide some sort of sample.  Your results may vary.

Best option, tell them what you're taking.  Be honest, it'll pay off in the long run.


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## Romanmaz

Marshall12345 said:
			
		

> Hey all, I've looked through and couldn't find anything on this particular subject.
> 
> I've been weight lifting quite frequently over the last year and I have been taking protein supplements (whey, mass gainer). I also have taken preworkouts which are legal products you take before you workout to give you a extra energy. One of the preworkouts I've been taking 'jack3d' I just found out fails you on a drug test saying you are doing amphetamines - right after reading this I threw it all out seeing as I don't want to ruin a career over this.
> 
> I just recently got my CFAT completed. Next is the medical and I'm assuming a drug test. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if it will put off the drug test? It is 100% legal protein, but I don't know if it will put something off on the drug test. If it does, would I have a opportunity to explain myself to them? I don't think it would set it off but I am worried.
> 
> Any advice?



Whoever told you Jacked has amphetamines in it is a retard. Jacked contains 1,3 dimethylamylamine. This is also known as DMAA or Germanamine. It’s naturally extracted from the geranium plant. 
While 1,3 dimethylamylamine is completely legal, it behaves like a very mild amphetamine in your body. Rumors  are circling Internet discussion forums that Jacked has caused false positives for amphetamines during drug tests. These statements are nothing but RUMORS.
1,3 Dimethylamylamine doesn’t convert into a amphetamine metabolite, and there are no accidentally-mixed amphetamines whatsoever in Jack3d.
I'm an avid weightlifter myself, and have tried every type of LEGAL supplement imaginable. On you're drug sheet, caffeine would be considered a drug and will have to be listed, however, once you inform them, as I did, why you take it, you shouldn't have any problems.


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## Marshall12345

Romanmaz said:
			
		

> Whoever told you Jacked has amphetamines in it is a retard. Jacked contains 1,3 dimethylamylamine. This is also known as DMAA or Germanamine. It’s naturally extracted from the geranium plant.
> While 1,3 dimethylamylamine is completely legal, it behaves like a very mild amphetamine in your body. Rumors  are circling Internet discussion forums that Jacked has caused false positives for amphetamines during drug tests. These statements are nothing but RUMORS.
> 1,3 Dimethylamylamine doesn’t convert into a amphetamine metabolite, and there are no accidentally-mixed amphetamines whatsoever in Jack3d.
> I'm an avid weightlifter myself, and have tried every type of LEGAL supplement imaginable. On you're drug sheet, caffeine would be considered a drug and will have to be listed, however, once you inform them, as I did, why you take it, you shouldn't have any problems.





Yeah when I read it first I thought it was crazy to. I did hear something about jack3d being banned in Canada now for causing high blood pressure? Anyway back on topic heres the link where I read it, he even posted the test results. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119402401

Just to be safe, I am going to switch to creatine, I felt like crap after I took pre workouts anyway.


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## canada94

Marshall12345 said:
			
		

> Yeah when I read it first I thought it was crazy to. I did hear something about jack3d being banned in Canada now for causing high blood pressure? Anyway back on topic heres the link where I read it, he even posted the test results. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119402401
> 
> Just to be safe, I am going to switch to creatine, I felt like crap after I took pre workouts anyway.



That is pretty freaky. However you are right, companies won't ship it. The containers even have a warning that the item cannot be shipped to Canada (my buddy has a container he picked up in the states).

- Mike


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## Marshall12345

Yeah they are sitting in my trash now. Enough of per workout junk. I couldn't even pronounce the ingredients, it's not worth the risk.

Thanks for all the imput


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## Tollis

I would try and stay away from supplements/energy boosters anyways.  Understandable if your really into weight training/body building and in garrison I see lots of people using them.  However while at BMQ you will not be permitted to have any sort of supplements with you is my understanding.  Someone correct me if im wrong.  Not sure about on course (3's) but I would assume its the same rule?


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## Jimmy_D

All depends on where your courses are and your course staff


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## PuckChaser

Tollis said:
			
		

> Not sure about on course (3's) but I would assume its the same rule?



QL3 course will be a little more liberal in the rules (not by much), your best bet is to always check with your course staff and read the joining instructions carefully.


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## canada94

Marshall12345 said:
			
		

> Yeah they are sitting in my trash now. Enough of per workout junk. I couldn't even pronounce the ingredients, it's not worth the risk.
> 
> Thanks for all the imput



I personally just stick with high protein food, Whey and the occasional Creatine (or however it is spelt) container and I have not had any issue with gaining weight or having a good workout. jack3d has ingredients that look closer to a Starbucks extra caffeine coffee then something you would take to workout.  

Be safe even if it isn't jack3d! Just because it is legal does not mean it has no repercussion's.

- Mike


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## Marshall12345

canada94 said:
			
		

> I personally just stick with high protein food, Whey and the occasional Creatine (or however it is spelt) container and I have not had any issue with gaining weight or having a good workout. jack3d has ingredients that look closer to a Starbucks extra caffeine coffee then something you would take to workout.
> 
> Be safe even if it isn't jack3d! Just because it is legal does not mean it has no repercussion's.
> 
> - Mike




I agree, I am going to stay away from curtain products. 


Thanks everyone!


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## mwc

I asked my buddy in 3VP about this. He and people he knows have taken Jack3d and passed their tests. No worries.

After 3 containers of Jack3d, I became too used to it. I prefer my home made Pre-drink which is Xtend with some Glycerol and 1,3 Dimeth added. Much cheaper buying the raw ingredients and its just as good.


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## canada94

mwc said:
			
		

> I asked my buddy in 3VP about this. He and people he knows have taken Jack3d and passed their tests. No worries.
> 
> After 3 containers of Jack3d, I became too used to it. I prefer my home made Pre-drink which is Xtend with some Glycerol and 1,3 Dimeth added. Much cheaper buying the raw ingredients and its just as good.



How do you get a hold of 1,3 Dimeth?


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## mwc

I got it from nutraplanet.com. 3 grams for 9 bucks


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## canada94

mwc said:
			
		

> I got it from nutraplanet.com. 3 grams for 9 bucks



Really? Interesting, from what I was aware it is a non- shipable item. As long as it works all that matters, be safe!

- Mike


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## cptstubing

Anyone who uses anything other than real food to enhance their 'workout' is bound to run into problems later in life.  Can the Jack3d dude, in fact, can all that garbage.  It is TOTAL TRASH.  You're just paying a company to give you liver/kidney problems down the road.
Just eat some good quality meat or have a protein shake (any kind of milk, skim milk powder, add some fruit, banana, choco powder).
I cannot say this enough, those power beverages are total garbage.

You want energy before a workout?  Have about 250ml (tiny cup) of dark roast coffee, black ideally.  You'll get about 100mg of caffeine, no more.  This is not unhealthy, just be sure to rehydrate during your workout.  I'd also recommend drinking cocoa leaf tea, but that might not go well on a drug test, as you'd test + for cocaine... trace amounts albeit.


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## Romanmaz

cptstubing said:
			
		

> Anyone who uses anything other than real food to enhance their 'workout' is bound to run into problems later in life.  Can the Jack3d dude, in fact, can all that garbage.  It is TOTAL TRASH.  You're just paying a company to give you liver/kidney problems down the road.
> Just eat some good quality meat or have a protein shake (any kind of milk, skim milk powder, add some fruit, banana, choco powder).
> I cannot say this enough, those power beverages are total garbage.
> 
> You want energy before a workout?  Have about 250ml (tiny cup) of dark roast coffee, black ideally.  You'll get about 100mg of caffeine, no more.  This is not unhealthy, just be sure to rehydrate during your workout.  I'd also recommend drinking cocoa leaf tea, but that might not go well on a drug test, as you'd test + for cocaine... trace amounts albeit.


Oh god...one of these guys ey. :tsktsk: Don't try to preach about something and make accusation against things you seem to know very little about. I've taken supplements for years, never had any liver/kidney problems or tested positive for any drug tests. At the same time, I know many amateur and professional natural bodybuilders, some in the masters class, who have been taking supplements for 20+ years without any problems. You have to learn how to do it properly and cycle on and off. Do some research before you put something into your body and follow proper dosing instructions, and you'll be fine. I do agree though that your diet should not revolve around supplements, they are meant to supplement an existing quality diet not replace it.


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## Michael OLeary

OK, you two have each presented your opinon. If you want to have a long drawn out debate over it (i.e., that means making any further posts), go find a body-building forum to do it in. We've seen this one before, it's not that exciting. The same goes for anyone else thinking about wading in with their own _"I'm an expert on the internet"_ opinion.

For anyone who was looking forward to following the ebb and flow of this particular thread, search for the old ones and then go search for the applicable forums for more information.

Thank you

Milnet.ca Staff


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## burzum

Im sorry of this topic has been brought up before but i searched for "creatine"  in the search bar and found nothing relevant. Im turning 17 this year and applying for the combat engineering highschool co op program. The problem is ive been into bodybuilding for the last couple years and discontinued using creatine after reading on the forces.ca site that 





> a sample of urine with creatinine and specific gravity values that are lower than expected for human urine.


 can lead them to believe its a "diluted sample". Technically creatine will give you higher creatinine levels. Will this hurt my chances of getting in? I wouldnt be asking this stupid question if my friend didnt get let in for admitting to drinking alcohol underage meanwhile the medical examiner said his previous drug history is not what caused him to fail(lsd,weed). Labels say to not use this under 18 but its not law so it should not be relevant.. right? This leads to my next question, i have Ephedrine HCL which i bough in store. Technically you have to be 18 to buy this but i never get asked for id. I have not used it but i want too for the summer. Im going to hold on to it and ask the doctor at the medical exam if its acceptable to use (can cause a false positive for methamphetamine). Please keep in mind im a minor. Pretty much I want to get into this co op and after my friend got snaked hard for drinking alcohol (the Liquor License Act allows parents to serve their children inside the family home) im not taking any chances. Tell me your parents never let you have a sip of champagne or beer when you were younger?


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## da1root

Good day,

During the application process, our recruiting medical personnel will assess your medical situation. A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for the Canadian Armed Forces. 

If you have specific medical questions you should contact the recruiting detachment nearest you and ask to speak with a member of the medical staff directly.

Best Regards,
Sgt Laen


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## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, burzum

As you can see, mariomike managed to find four existing threads that discussed supplements, including creatine. I have merged them all into this one.

Continue to work on your search skills...


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