# JCSP Paper - Overview of Precision Strike Capability for CP-140M and CC-130J



## dimsum (16 May 2017)

Not sure if this is just DWAN, but one of the JCSP papers is out on the Air Force site.  



> The aim of this article is to provide an overview of possible options for the addition of a precision
> strike capability to either the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) CP140 Aurora or CC130J
> Hercules airframe. This article discusses the operating environment that such a strike capability
> could be employed in, the capabilities that should be considered for a project, the potential of the
> ...



http://w08-ttn-vmweb01/CFAWC/en/elibrary/journal/2017-vol6/iss1-winter/contents/05-overview-of-precision-strike-capability-for-cp140-and-cc130j.pdf


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## dapaterson (16 May 2017)

There's already a precision strike capability for the CC-130J: 3 RCR, 3 PPCLI, and 3 R22eR.   >


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## dimsum (16 May 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There's already a precision strike capability for the CC-130J: 3 RCR, 3 PPCLI, and 3 R22eR.   >



Well played, good sir.


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## medicineman (16 May 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There's already a precision strike capability for the CC-130J: 3 RCR, 3 PPCLI, and 3 R22eR.   >



As long as the navs can get them onto the DZ... ;D

MM


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## Loachman (16 May 2017)

Like the Chalk River garbage dump?

Or maybe the Deep River garbage dump.

It was a while ago, when I was a very active Friday at the Mess participant. Memories are a bit hazy.


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## dapaterson (16 May 2017)

medicineman said:
			
		

> As long as the navs can get them onto the DZ... ;D
> 
> MM



Isn't a Nav just the person who can figure out how to operate the GPS?


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## OldSolduer (16 May 2017)

I can hear the howls of outrage from the left.........


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## medicineman (16 May 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Like the Chalk River garbage dump?
> 
> Or maybe the Deep River garbage dump.
> 
> It was a while ago, when I was a very active Friday at the Mess participant. Memories are a bit hazy.



Words to that effect...

MM


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## MilEME09 (17 May 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There's already a precision strike capability for the CC-130J: 3 RCR, 3 PPCLI, and 3 R22eR.   >



Well I have seen some Warrants that could qualify as a 250 lbs dumb bomb >


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## dimsum (17 May 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Isn't a Nav just the person who can figure out how to operate the GPS?



Yes - part of why it's called ACSO now.   :nod:


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## Fabius (17 May 2017)

My take away from the paper is that we have actively reduced the capability of the CP140 by not including the hardpoints or wiring in the new wings being installed.  My understanding is that these items were previously on the aircraft as part of a baseline P3 package, so in effect we are deliberately reducing our flexibility.
Assuming my understanding is correct, I find it sad that we are not procuring munitions that would allow us to maximise our limited airframes in support of naval and land forces across the spectrum.  In terms of the CP-140, not having the ability to fire any of the latest standoff land attack or naval strike missiles and/or drop the latest PGM bombs seems utterly ridiculous.


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## Sub_Guy (17 May 2017)

Didn't we pay to remove the laser designator from the EO turret?


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## Good2Golf (17 May 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Yes - part of why it's called ACSO now.   :nod:



...and why they were eliminated from the CC-130J crew complement. :nod:

Regards
G2G


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## OldSolduer (17 May 2017)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I can hear the howls of outrage from the left.........



Clarification here - the CAF won't see this ever. Too many lace panty folk in DND and government.

Someone might get hurt by our nasty soldiers, sailors and air people. We can't have that now can we?


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## dapaterson (17 May 2017)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ...and why they were eliminated from the CC-130J crew complement. :nod:
> 
> Regards
> G2G



No longer needed on most aircraft.


Because they're too busy commanding the RCAF.


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## Good2Golf (17 May 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No longer needed on most aircraft.
> 
> 
> Because they're tootwo of them left are busy commanding the RCAF and RMC.


  ;D

There you go, DAP.

Regards
G2G


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## SupersonicMax (17 May 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Yes - part of why it's called ACSO now.   :nod:



Yes, the GPS is an Air Combat System!


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## Rifleman62 (18 May 2017)

> Assuming my understanding is correct, I find it sad that we are not procuring munitions that would allow us to maximise our limited airframes in support of naval and land forces across the spectrum.  In terms of the CP-140, not having the ability to fire any of the latest standoff land attack or naval strike missiles and/or drop the latest PGM bombs seems utterly ridiculous.



Too warlike. Hurts our image as peacekeepers. Possibly butterfly pods could be mounted.


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## Colin Parkinson (15 Aug 2017)

Someone should whisper in the ear of JT that the P8 could precision strike oil slicks with containment booms on hardpoints and as internal stores, not mention drop and monitor Data logging buoys to track drift.


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## MarkOttawa (15 Aug 2017)

French navy has given Breguet Atlantiqe a land precision-strike capability with GBU12, used against ISIS--a tweet:
https://twitter.com/EtatMajorFR/status/794900654976286720



> État-Major Armées‏Verified account @EtatMajorFR
> 
> Polyvalence de l’Atlantique 2 : missions de frappes et de renseignement dans l’opération #Chammal
> 5 Nov 2016



More at official site:



> ...
> Armement
> 
> 2 missiles AM 39 ou 8 torpilles Mk 46 ou MU 90
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Aug 2017)

To add, the ATL 2 dropped its first bombs on target almost 2 years ago.  There is the opportunity to make this happen as part of Block 4 or do a *4.5* mod...add in something like the MX-20D...voila.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gkHIAcDddw  not exactly what we're looking for, but...more than we are doing in the RCAF.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnO4alX7McE

First Air Strike with GBU-12 Against ISIL in Iraq for French Navy ATL2 Maritime Patrol Aircraft 

The Marine Nationale (French Navy) announced that one of its Atlantique 2 (ATL 2) Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) taking part in Operation Chammal (name of the French military operation in Iraq against ISIL) hit a target with a GBU-12 laser guided bomb. The strike mission which took place on August 19 2015 was a first for a French Navy MPA during Operation Chammal.

The Marine Nationale (French Navy) announced that one of its Atlantique 2 (ATL 2) Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) taking part in Operation Chammal (name of the French military operationin Iraq against ISIL) hit a target with a GBU-12 laser guided bomb. The strike mission which took place on August 19 2015 was a first for a French Navy MPA during Operation Chammal.

The French Navy didn't provide details but the Mirage 2000 probably laser designated the target to the GBU-12 dropped by the ATL2 even though the French MPA can now self designate its own bombs thanks to the Wescam MX-20D electro-optical turret :tempertantrum:. Not all ATL2 are fitted with this gimbal however (only ATL2 Standard V aircraft).

While stike missions are a new thing for the French ATL2, they've been deployed on theater since the beginning of Operation Chammal and prove to be valuable assets for ISTAR (Intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance) missions. They also act as forward air control for aircraft on theater.


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## Cloud Cover (3 Feb 2020)

Not wanting to start a new thread, but it looks like the USN liked what the French did with their MPA:

“ The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), PMA-290 (Program Office for P-8A aircraft), is soliciting information from industry to determine potential contractors who have the skills, experience, qualifications, and knowledge required to perform aeromechanical and software integration of the Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) onto the P-8A aircraft, with the potential to include, but not limited to, the following additional weapon systems: 500 lb to 2,000 lb class of Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) variants, Mk62/63/65 mines, Small Diameter Bomb (SDB-II), Miniature Air Launched Decoy (MALD), Bomb Rack Unit BRU-55, and Universal Armament Interface (UAI)”

https://beta.sam.gov/opp/e0453399274345038d1f3772d70e3392/view?index=opp&page=1&organization_id=300000188


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## daftandbarmy (4 Feb 2020)

You mean like the FW 200 Condor.... finally?  ;D

"With the advent of war, the Fw 200 Condor series was utilized as a successful maritime reconnaissance bomber and VIP transport (Hitler and Himmler were both reported users of the Fw 200 for this purpose). Excelling in disruption of Allied shipping lanes throughout the Atlantic and the Arctic, the Fw 200 Condor was fitted with anti-shipping armaments including anti-ship mines. Later variants, the Fw 200C-6 and 200C-8 would be fitted with the Henschel Hs 293 anti-ship guided missile controlled by an integrated missile control radio onboard." https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=237


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## NavyShooter (4 Feb 2020)

King Solomon was purported to have said "There is nothing new under the sun."  

I see we have attained 1940's technology again!


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## Cloud Cover (4 Feb 2020)

As long as the Canadian government doesn’t select the 140 as the winner of the fighter competition, the RCAF may have a chance of moving into the 1990’s technology space.


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## MarkOttawa (4 Feb 2020)

More, further links at original:



> Navy To Greatly Expand P-8 Poseidon's Mission With New Missiles, Mines, Bombs, And Decoys
> _The plan reflects the better part of a decade of debate about expanding the roles and missions of these maritime patrol aircraft._
> 
> The U.S. Navy says that it is interested in dramatically expanding the arsenal of weapons that its P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft are capable of carrying. The service says that it wants to start by integrating the AGM-158C Long Range Anti-Ship Missile, or LRASM, on the planes, but then potentially move on to add various air-launched naval mines, precision-guided bombs, and the Miniature Air Launched Decoy, or MALD, to the available loadout options. There has been a debate within the Navy for years about giving the P-8As the ability to employ more types of munitions and other stores, which could turn these aircraft into arsenal ships of sorts capable of performing missions beyond anti-submarine, anti-surface warfare, and search and rescue, something The War Zone has been following for years now.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Eye In The Sky (4 Feb 2020)

I'm a big fan of making a weapons platform as multi-functional as possible;  flexibility.  MPAs of the modern world are really muti-mission aircraft and should be multi-mission combat capable.  IMO, we stopped short of the 'combat' part.

No doubt, the RAAF, RAF and others would benefit from the strengthening of the P-8 fleet.  The RAF just brought their first P-8 home today (1 of 9 for their fleet).  I'm really hoping for some exchange positions or even some foreign recruiting.   ;D


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