# What is a Canadian Soldier?



## PteCamp (17 Nov 2004)

Hey everyone.
I'm doing a definition essay on "what is a Canadian Soldier."
I already know pretty much what I am going to write, but I was wondering if anyone has something to imput.
Thanks for your help!

KaT


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## kyleg (22 Nov 2004)

A Canadian soldier is a person of morals and honour, who defends his country and the lives of the innocent. He follows orders with diligence, but is not a robot. He seeks peace, not conflict.


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## Tpr.Orange (22 Nov 2004)

Someone who makes do with what they have and always looks out for others before themselves. Patriotic, Strong and willing to serve his or her country and make the ultimate sacrifice if asked to do so.


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## AZA-02 (22 Nov 2004)

brief- a human helping others not a killing machine, but wouldn't mind to in some case.


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## gorf (22 Nov 2004)

Pte. gremlin said:
			
		

> A Canadian soldier is a person of morals and honour, who defends his country and the lives of the innocent. He follows orders with diligence, but is not a robot. He seeks peace, not conflict.






			
				CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> Someone who makes do with what they have and always looks out for others before themselves. Patriotic, Strong and willing to serve his or her country and make the ultimate sacrifice if asked to do so.


That about sums it up....I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Armymedic (22 Nov 2004)

Al-X said:
			
		

> brief- a human helping others not a killing machine, but wouldn't mind to in some case.



Wrong, we do mind. Good soldiers want to win without the killing.

We do what we have to do, within the rules and code of conduct set by our gov't, often with little resources and not enough time in the most of difficult conditions.


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## AZA-02 (22 Nov 2004)

read my quote dude...


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## Scratch_043 (22 Nov 2004)

Edit: Deleted because information is irrelevent


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## gorf (22 Nov 2004)

Armymedic, true enough.....I know I lot of people that think I want to join because "I want to kill things". They watch to many movies.


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## Michael Dorosh (23 Nov 2004)

While I cringe at the thought of speaking for others, especially those who have served in harm's way, I think a Canadian soldier is simply someone who has committed to something larger than himself.  

He's sworn an oath to Queen Elizabeth II, by name, and promised to obey all officers, warrant officers and NCOs appointed over him.

He's promised to forfeit his life if necessary, to achieve the mission.

He's promised to obey the Queen's laws, from drug use to murder.

He's committed himself to being a member of team - be it an infantry section, orderly room, armoured troop, field kitchen, etc. and to put others ahead of himself.

He's surrendered his/her individuality and privacy in order to achieve a greater good.  In many cases, he's forfeited better paying jobs.


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## George Wallace (23 Nov 2004)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> We do what we have to do, within the rules and code of conduct set by our gov't, often with little resources and not enough time in the most of difficult conditions.




....And that takes a lot of INITIATIVE.

GW


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## Art Johnson (23 Nov 2004)

Michael I agree with most of what you say BUT I would not fit the mold. I remain an individual capable of my own thought and if a superior is wrong he is wrong. Hopefully I will write my lasr chapter soon and I am not going to pull any punches. Can you imagine standing at the bottom of a hill that you are taking over from another unit and arguing with the CSM about the ammunition? It got to the point that I was faced with the decision of going to the Monkey House and facing a very serious charge or doing what I was told. I did what I was told and I wished that I had not. The Limies pulled it over the CSM like a wet blanket, They got all our nice dry ammuniion at the bottom of the hill while we got their rain soaked crap at the top. I was never so dissapointed in the British Army.
The Assisant Adjutant of 2 RCR dubbed me as his personal shit disturber, of course he was a friend of mine, he ended up a Brigadiert.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Nov 2004)

An apt quote for this forum:

I hope that my achievements in life shall be these - that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, and that I will have given help to those who were in need that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been.  ~C. Hoppe


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Nov 2004)

I have this one engraved on my lighter (yes, very tiny);

A SOLDIER"S SAYING

I was that which others did not want to be.
I asked naught from those who gave naught and accepted the thought of eternal lonliness should I fail.
I have seen the face of terror, felt the stinging cold of fear, and ejoyed the sweet taste of a moments love.
I have cried, pained and hoped...
but most of all I have lived times others would say are best forgotten.
At least someday I'll be able to say I was proud of who I was..

A Soldier.


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## Michael Dorosh (23 Nov 2004)

Art Johnson said:
			
		

> Michael I agree with most of what you say BUT I would not fit the mold. I remain an individual capable of my own thought and if a superior is wrong he is wrong. Hopefully I will write my lasr chapter soon and I am not going to pull any punches. Can you imagine standing at the bottom of a hill that you are taking over from another unit and arguing with the CSM about the ammunition? It got to the point that I was faced with the decision of going to the Monkey House and facing a very serious charge or doing what I was told. I did what I was told and I wished that I had not. The Limies pulled it over the CSM like a wet blanket, They got all our nice dry ammuniion at the bottom of the hill while we got their rain soaked crap at the top. I was never so dissapointed in the British Army.
> The Assisant Adjutant of 2 RCR dubbed me as his personal shit disturber, of course he was a friend of mine, he ended up a Brigadiert.



I remember you telling me that story before - I thought you were labelled a shit disturber after the NCO course though. ;-)

George Wallace posted about INITIATIVE, and I think that dovetails nicely with what you just wrote.  I never said a Canadian soldier slavishly follows orders, but he is someone who puts himself aside.

Think about it Art, had you gone to the monkey house, that would be not an act of individualism, that would be an act of sacrifice on behalf of your comrades.  Another example of "taking one for the team" - the team being what is important, not the one person.  Your concern was not for yourself, but for the entire unit, no?


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## armyrules (23 Nov 2004)

A Canadian soldier is a person that would always fight to the end and never back down.
A Canadian soldier is a brave and loyal, trustworthy human being and a Canadian soldier will never leave anyone behind.  This is my definition of a Canadian soldier


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## Veterans son (23 Nov 2004)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I have this one engraved on my lighter (yes, very tiny);
> 
> A SOLDIER"S SAYING
> 
> ...



Thank you for posting the poem/saying, recceguy! 
I wonder if this could be posted to an additional forum, such as Military Literature please?

Again, thank you for posting this poem as it is appreciated!


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## SprCForr (23 Nov 2004)

A Cdn soldier is the guy or gal just down the street from your house. He is the guy that does his job silently and well. She is the one that has "got a head on her shoulders". They look like you and me. They are not the ones making a spectacle of themselves and never did. They do the job to the best of their ability and then fade away.

A Cdn soldier is the one that all the refugees run to.


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## Spr.Earl (23 Nov 2004)

SprCForr said:
			
		

> A Cdn soldier is the guy or gal just down the street from your house. He is the guy that does his job silently and well. She is the one that has "got a head on her shoulders". They look like you and me. They are not the ones making a spectacle of themselves and never did. They do the job to the best of their ability and then fade away.
> 
> A Cdn soldier is the one that all the refugees run to.




I could not put it in any other better words.
But I must add we know what we do but our Nation does not.

Thank You C 4


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## PteCamp (24 Nov 2004)

Thanks for all your help everyone. I apperciate it.

KaT


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## Wolf671 (24 Nov 2004)

A Canadian soldier must be able to stand up to the worst possible treatment, take it with a smile and ask, "Please Sir, may I have some more".


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## PteCamp (25 Nov 2004)

Wolf, that may be true in some cases, but not in all. Soldiers most be able to tell the difference between right and wrong. You can't always expect to be treated nicely, I mean you are going to get yelled at, and crapped on, but you have no no when you are being treated unfair. Some treatment is wrong.

KaT


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## Shec (25 Nov 2004)

As Sgt. Villager of 1PPCLI made abundantly clear to us Militia Jr. NCO Course types on the parade square of Calgary's Sarcee Barracks during the summer of 1972:



> The Canadian soldier is the finest in the world,  a creature of beauty on the parade square !


 :warstory:

Nobody challenged that statement then and I defy anybody to challenge it now .


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Nov 2004)

Shec said:
			
		

> As Sgt. Villager of 1PPCLI made abundantly clear to us Militia Jr. NCO Course types on the parade square of Calgary's Sarcee Barracks during the summer of 1972:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I challenge it - must have been back when you wore the bus driver suits with the really cute silk ascots.   And the sideburns.   I would suggest squarebashing is not something Canadian soldiers have been particularly good at, except when important ceremonial parades come up.   I saw some newsreel footage of my own regiment on parade circa 1943....God awful.   Of course, they were working their asses off with Battle Drill, assault courses, and the like, preparing to fight for their lives against one of the best armies in human history.

Check out the pictures of Patricias at Buckingham Palace when they did public duties a few years ago - in particular the way no one seemed to know how to wear a beret properly.   I don't doubt their drill was excellent, I am sure, however, those regular soldiers had done enough "real soldiering" to not really care to be known as "beautiful" on parade.  Don't take my word for it, check out the letters section of Military Modelling out of the UK, who did a nice piece on the Patricias and their uniforms, and some of the Canadians who wrote in to comment on the hats.

Not to try and trash Patricias or anyone, for that matter, but superb drill has not been something closely associated with Canadian troops, certainly not in the same manner of the British Guards, for example.   Can't speak for the Regulars but I am pretty certain most Reserve units don't do enough of it,through no fault of their own.

Not sure what "beauty" is meant to mean - if not drill, certainly not the CF Green uniform you wore in 1972?


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## Shec (25 Nov 2004)

3 points in response Michael:

1.     The operative phrase in the sentence is The Canadian soldier is the finest in the world.     As far as drill goes I was certainly no "creature of beauty",   I wasn't the only one.
Which is why the same Sgt. also "diplomatically" advised us that 





> the sign of a good soldier is one who executes all drill movements with "rock-like steadiness"


.      ;D

2.   CF Greens/work dress for the Militia in 1972?     HA!     The Regs had, the reserves were still in Battledress or Bush.     We were authorized Combats but not yet issued them so you either bought your own or played silly bugger in issue black coveralls and 51 pattern webbing.   

3.   Sideburns - yes, until we got to Sarcee.   Then they trucked us to Curry for a brushcut.     The WO in charge of that operation told us " the problem with long hair is that you have to cop a feel to find out who is what".   :

BTW, General Lew was then Major MacKenzie and it was his company that ran what was then called the Prairie Region Combat Leader Course.     600 started, 300 were RTUed.     Those of us who graduated really thought we were gung-ho.

Boy, am I aging myself.


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Nov 2004)

Shec said:
			
		

> 2 points in response Michael:
> 
> 1.     The operative phrase in the sentence is The Canadian soldier is the finest in the world.     As far as drill goes I was certainly no "creature of beauty",   I wasn't the only one.
> Which is why the same Sgt. also "diplomatically" advised us that
> ...



Well, I'm pretty sure every army tells its men that; I'd be worried if they didn't.

As far as rock-steadiness in drill, see my previous comments.   We had a nice photo in our orderly room with a poem whose name and author escapes me - it said something to the effect that the author, if left to run the country, would have two armies - one for dress parades with shiny medals and gold trim, and another one of men whose job was to fight and sacrifice.   Seems he felt the two were mutually exclusive, and most armies would agree.   Canada - even the Germans - banned ceremonial dress "for the duration" of the last world war; the Germans even stopped teaching drill by 1944 and in 1939 stopped the practice of parade-marching ("goosestepping") and even of the movements shoulder arms and present arms.     

You think your Militia unit in 1972 represented the "finest in the world"?   I am quite satisfied a similarly sized unit of the North Vietnamese Army would have been delighted to take you and your comrades on.      They were well on their way to finishing a thirty-year war of national survival and by 1975 would have embarked on the full scale invasion and occupation of the RVN.   

The only thing that might have been in your favour were the black coveralls - eerily similar to the "black pajamas" worn by the NVA's former allies, the Viet Cong, before the destruction of same in 1968.   If nothing else, you could have confused "Old Charlie" with your bizarre clothing.   All you would need was the conical hats and the sandals made from truck tyres.

I had rather feared this thread would go from bare jingoism to even worse, guess I shouldn't be disappointed about not being disappointed.

For the record, the Canadian soldier has rarely been the best trained in the world, nor the best equipped nor belonged to the largest army, yet he has consistently proven himself the equal of other soldiers who have been the best trained and best equipped, and on many occasions been able to exceed them.

Unfortunately, his ability to do that has created the "Militia myth" - no doubt Shec believes in this now, and probably did in 1972 - which would have us believe that Canadians are somehow "natural fighters" who need no formal training or modern equipment, just a stout heart and a chance to show his stuff.   One would have hoped Second Ypres showed the folly of this, but, again, we were unlucky enough to have won that one, too.

It is Canadian tradition to define ourselves not but what we are, but by what we are not.   We are not Americans, we are not British, we are not the best, we are not the worst.   We are simply Canadians, and because we are Canadians, we are proud.   We don't know why.   We like ourselves, but to boast about ourselves just looks silly in print.   We are definitely a strange bunch.


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## Shec (25 Nov 2004)

Oooucchhhhhh.   Twist it deeper.   Whatever happened to our self-deprecating sense of humour?   

Seriously though I agree with your... two armies - one for dress parades with shiny medals and gold trim, and another one of men whose job was to fight and sacrifice.   Seems he felt the two were mutually exclusive, and most armies would agree.     For example, the IDF tags the  "creatures of beauty on the parade square"  "chocolate soldiers."


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## Bill Smy (25 Nov 2004)

A lot of what Kipling said over a hundred years ago certainly could be applied to a definition of a Canadian solidier today:

Tommy

I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer, 
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here." 
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, 
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: 
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ; 
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, 
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play. 
I went into a theatre as sober as could be, 
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; 
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, 
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! 
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, 
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide. 

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap. 
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. 
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, 
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, 
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; 
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, 
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; 
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind," 
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, 
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all: 
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. 
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. 
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot; 
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; 
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!


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## armyrules (25 Nov 2004)

nice post Bill Smy


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## excoelis (25 Nov 2004)

Well.................here's three I can personally vouch for.......................


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## armyrules (25 Nov 2004)




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## Art Johnson (28 Nov 2004)

Michael, when my shoulders get better or when I can get this dictation program to work I'll get back to you. Right now I am not able to type for a sustained period.


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## 043 (1 Dec 2004)

He's sworn an oath to Queen Elizabeth II

Sworn an oath to Queen Elizabeth II??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 

I swore an oath to God.............not to the Queen. I joined because I am Canadian and respect and want to honour Canadian Values. Not for the Queen.

CHIMO!!!!!!!!!!


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## bgreen (2 Dec 2004)

I believe every CF members swears an Oath of Allegiance to Canada's Queen.  I believe the part that you may have forgotten is " I swear that I will bear true and faithful allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second  her heirs and successors acording to law so help me God.  I am doing this from memory many years ago but I think this is close.

Does this ring a bell?
BG


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## SprCForr (4 Dec 2004)

Yep, thats what it says alright. You believe correctly.


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## PeterLT (7 Dec 2004)

This is my first post since joining this forum so please bear with me. I retired in 1998 after 25 years, 172 days and a wakey (who's counting). I don't consider myself as any better or worse than any other Canadian soldier but there were a few close calls over the years that taught me what it was for me to be a Canadian Soldier.

A Canadian Soldier trains hard and often has to use imagination to compensate for lack of equipment. This makes him resourceful and an independant thinker.

A Canadian Soldier considers his fellow soldiers as a gift from God that must be trusted and depended on. This makes him uncompromisingly faithful _and_ demanding at the same time.

A Canadian Soldier knows that true leadership in this outfit is a commodity that can be in short supply. This means flexibility must be used to compensate for poor leadership and compliment the good.

A Canadian Soldier is patriotic and proud of what he represents but humble enough to let his actions do the talking.

A Canadian Soldier is confident that his training and fellow soldiers will give him a fighting chance in any fix he's liable to find himself in but is realistic and sensible enough to pick his battles.

A Canadian Soldier carries the thought in the back of his mind that someday, in some far place, at a time not necissarily of his choosing; he will have to put in practice all he has learned and silently prays a little every day that it never comes.


Oaths, badges, terms of service, pensions and so on are administrative matters. Important to be sure, but not what soldering is about.

Just a retired guy's perspective. Like I said, bear with me.

Peter


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## Cliff (7 Dec 2004)

bgreen said:
			
		

> I believe every CF members swears an Oath of Allegiance to Canada's Queen.   I believe the part that you may have forgotten is " I swear that I will bear true and faithful allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second   her heirs and successors acording to law so help me God.   I am doing this from memory many years ago but I think this is close.
> 
> Does this ring a bell?
> BG



I think we were given the option to "swear" or "solemly affirm". If the latter was chosen, God was deleted from the oath. 

God bless.


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## Veterans son (7 Dec 2004)

PeterLT said:
			
		

> This is my first post since joining this forum so please bear with me. I retired in 1998 after 25 years, 172 days and a wakey (who's counting). I don't consider myself as any better or worse than any other Canadian soldier but there were a few close calls over the years that taught me what it was for me to be a Canadian Soldier.
> 
> A Canadian Soldier trains hard and often has to use imagination to compensate for lack of equipment. This makes him resourceful and an independant thinker.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the excellent post!


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## patrick666 (8 Dec 2004)

Being a soldier in the Canadian army to me just means being the best god damned soldier on the planet!


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## 1feral1 (8 Dec 2004)

What about being a volunteer? I think thats important.

He/she is there because he wants to be, not because he/she has to be.

My 2c worth.

Cheers,

Wes


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## 043 (9 Dec 2004)

Very well said. Thank you for that!


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## bdcasey916 (9 Dec 2004)

The Average Military Man 
The average age of the military man is 19 years old.  He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy.  Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to vote but old enough to die for his country.  He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father's; but he has never collected unemployment either.  He's a recent high school graduate; he was probably an average student, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away.  He listens to rock and roll or hip-hop or rap or jazz or swing and 155mm Howitzers.  He is 10 or 15 pounds lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting from before dawn to well after dusk.  He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark.  He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must.  He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.  He can march until he is told to stop or stop until he is told to march.  He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity.  He is self-sufficient. He has two sets of fatigues: he washes one and wears the other. He keeps his canteens full and his feet dry.  He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle.  He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts.  If you're thirsty, he'll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food.  He'll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low.  He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands. He can save your life - or take it, because that is his job.  He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay and still find ironic humor in it all. He has seen more suffering and death then he should have in his short lifetime.  He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed.  He feels every note of the national anthem vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'sort-out' those around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hat, or even stop talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful.  Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom.  Beardless or not, he is not a boy.  He is the Canadian Military Man and has kept this country free for over 100 years.  He has asked nothing in return, except our friendship and understanding.  Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his blood.  

I got this in an email a while ago and I think it kinda suits this this forum here.  Anyone agree?


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## Acorn (9 Dec 2004)

A couple of things make this the usual "written to describe an American, but with 'Canadian' substituted." If he's 19, he's old enough to vote or drink anywhere in Canada. Plus, I don't think 19 has ever been the average age of a Canadian soldier.

There's something about this thread that bugs me. I've been trying to put it into words so I could express it here. All this "nobility" is, simply, massaging our egos. In my fairly brief (close to 25 years) of service I've known soldiers who are drunks, but good in the field; thieves, but would never steal from someone in their own platoons; wife beaters that could shoot the eyes out of a moving snake at 200m; slackers who would do anything to avoid physical labour, but could excel at PT.

I've known officers and NCOs that were self-serving dickheads that somehow managed to gain promotion. Guys that would let their best bud take the blame for something they did. I've known truly bad soldiers. I knew Clayton Matchee, but I didn't know Kyle Brown. I've known great soldiers and those who were not so great. I served with Col Ethell, and Rod Dearing, and Jim DeCoste, and Scott Taylor.

The Canadian Soldier is Everyman. The best and the worst of Canadian society. "Rich man, poor man, beggar man, thief."

Acorn


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## bdcasey916 (9 Dec 2004)

Couldn't agree more.  Basically a Canadian Soldier is one everyone and anyone!


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## excoelis (10 Dec 2004)

Acorn,

Very well said.  I too completely agree..............do you mind if I muddy the waters some more?

When a soldier answers to a 'higher calling' is his nobility lessened by those that tag along for less altruistic reasons?

Is the institution to blame for the few that serve only the one?  

Is a loose and fast lifestyle unbelievable when your job is to deal with mankind's dirty laundry?

When the risks inherent to your vocation involve loss of life, limb, or best friend does short-sightedness and hedonism sound unrealistic?

Work avoidance can also be called 'economy of effort'.  We teach and encourage _that_.

It could be argued that aggression is in our job description, if not our race.  IMO, it's managing the application of violence that gets convoluted.

I too have served with some of the best and worst.  To me the operative word is 'served'.  Unfortunately, it's not the same for all.



> Matthew 7:1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.



I'm really in for it come judgement day 

Acorn.  Thanks again for shedding some pragmatic light on this sugar-coated thread.


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## armyrules (10 Dec 2004)

bdcasey916 said:
			
		

> The Average Military Man
> The average age of the military man is 19 years old. He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to vote but old enough to die for his country. He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father's; but he has never collected unemployment either. He's a recent high school graduate; he was probably an average student, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away. He listens to rock and roll or hip-hop or rap or jazz or swing and 155mm Howitzers. He is 10 or 15 pounds lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting from before dawn to well after dusk. He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark. He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must. He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional. He can march until he is told to stop or stop until he is told to march. He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity. He is self-sufficient. He has two sets of fatigues: he washes one and wears the other. He keeps his canteens full and his feet dry. He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle. He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts. If you're thirsty, he'll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He'll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low. He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands. He can save your life - or take it, because that is his job. He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay and still find ironic humor in it all. He has seen more suffering and death then he should have in his short lifetime. He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed. He feels every note of the national anthem vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'sort-out' those around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hat, or even stop talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful. Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom. Beardless or not, he is not a boy. He is the Canadian Military Man and has kept this country free for over 100 years. He has asked nothing in return, except our friendship and understanding. Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his blood.
> 
> I got this in an email a while ago and I think it kinda suits this this forum here. Anyone agree?



                         I totally agree 150% Great post bdcasey916 I've read it before and printed it out I love it Good on ya for posting it  why didn't I think of that!!


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## 043 (31 Jan 2005)

CHIMO!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RCA (31 Jan 2005)

Has gone on so long with so little, is now capable of doing anything with nothing.


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## chrisf (31 Jan 2005)

Or in otherwords, we could have finished the invasion of Iraq. In 10 minutes. Without weapons. Nude.


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## Edward Campbell (31 Jan 2005)

RCA said:
			
		

> Has gone on so long with so little, is now capable of doing anything with nothing.



We the unwilling 
working for the ungrateful 
are doing the impossible. 
We have done so much, 
for so long, 
with so little, 
we are now qualified to 
do anything with nothing.


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## Love793 (31 Jan 2005)

The PPCLI Kitshop used to sell a print titled "The Soldiers Poem",  it was slightly different than the rest of the Soldiers/Warriors Poems I have seen, in that it was written for and by Canadians, does any one have a copy that they can post (mine has disappeared )


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## camochick (31 Jan 2005)

Is this what you meant

The soldier-Charles M Province.

It is the soldier, not the reporter 
Who has given us the freedom of press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier, who salutes the flag,
Who serves under the flag, 
Whose coffin is draped by the flag, 
And who allows protestors to burn the flag.


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## RCA (31 Jan 2005)

Thanks ROJ, knew I was missing something, but for the sake of me couldn't remember.


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## armyrules (1 Feb 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> Is this what you meant
> 
> The soldier-Charles M Province.
> 
> ...


        thankx for posting camochick haven't heard that one before.


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## Love793 (1 Feb 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> Is this what you meant
> 
> The soldier-Charles M Province.
> 
> ...


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## Hgrant (18 Feb 2005)

if only we had the resources and the government to let us be real soldiers


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## D-n-A (18 Feb 2005)

"When a soldier was injured and could not get back to safety, his buddy went out to get him, against his officer's orders. He returned mortally wounded, and his friend, whom he had carried back, was dead. The officer was angry. 'I told you not to go,' he said. 'Now I've lost both of you. It was not worth it.' The dying man repied, But it was, sir, because when I got to him, he said, 'Jim, I knew you'd come.'"

Leslie D. Weatherhead


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## mainerjohnthomas (19 Feb 2005)

The Canadian Soldier is a person who is willing to give up his freedom, to live in conditions you could not subject a convict to, for wages you could better on welfare, to strive to become skilled enough to have the opportunity to fight, and perhaps die, for a country who has chosen to use its hardwon freedom to despise its own defenders.  A Canadian soldier can count on being younger than his his rifle, or his vehicle, and can make either one perform only because his training is able to take museum relics and nurse performances almost equivalent to the modern materiel owned by every third world nation in the world.  A Canadian soldier does more with less, and knows that the reward for this is to be asked to do more yet, with even less to come.  A Canadian soldier follows a calling more true than any priest, for our nation offers little pay, less glory, and no recognition.  A Canadian soldier does the job his country pretends doesn't need to be done, because we know better.


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## 043 (20 Feb 2005)

MikeL said:
			
		

> "When a soldier was injured and could not get back to safety, his buddy went out to get him, against his officer's orders. He returned mortally wounded, and his friend, whom he had carried back, was dead. The officer was angry. 'I told you not to go,' he said. 'Now I've lost both of you. It was not worth it.' The dying man repied, But it was, sir, because when I got to him, he said, 'Jim, I knew you'd come.'"
> 
> Leslie D. Weatherhead



Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bill Smy (20 Feb 2005)

Camochick:-

This is an American, not Canadian, poem. This poem was read by Atlantic Highlands Mayor Michael A. Harmon at the Veterans Day Ceremony, Sunday, November 11, 2001. The ceremony was held by the American Legion Eugene Allen Post 141 at Veterans Memorial Park, First Avenue, Atlantic Highlands, NJ.


The soldier-Charles M Province.

It is the soldier, not the reporter.........................


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## camochick (20 Feb 2005)

American, Canadian, it's still a good poem.


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## Mad Max (22 Feb 2005)

Yo, Armyrules! I wish that E-mail you quoted was really accurate. Unfortunately, it ain't, at least not the fitness bit. I don't know what unit you're in, but I suggest that the next time you happen to be formed up in three ranks,you take a good look around- there are a lot of chubby bellies sticking out. The truth is, that while the IDEAL for the soldier is "fit, motivated, etc.", the reality, at present, is quite different. I would say that, objectively, EASILY 1/3 of all personnel in uniform today are- and here I must apologise in advance to the Orwellian Eyes- fat ***** who do NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, match the soldierly ideal. This doesn't necessarily mean they're not acceptable in the performance of their duties, but it does mean that, as an Armed Force, we have lost our way vis-a-vis THE SOLDIERLY IDEAL. What is a Canadian Soldier? Whether he knows it or not, he is the inheritor of a proud tradition, which we are ALL well on the way to squandering on the altar of Political Correctness and the institutionalized lowering of soldierly standards. Does that help answer the question?

Modified for swearing.


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## GENOMS Soilder (12 May 2005)

A human being who loves his/hers country and is ready to give 110% when called upon.


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## Polish Possy (12 May 2005)

Some words I use to describe a Canadian Soldier are  Courage, Commitment , Determination , Loyalty , Pride , Judgement , Scarfice , Freedom , Justice, Honour, and Respect.

I believe that when you become a Soldier you become a piece of your Country and a part Freedom
I know that may sound cheesy But I have the most respect for people that are willing to Scarfice their lives to ensure the Freedom and Safety of their Country. 


Just my thoughts


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## Gramps (12 May 2005)

Dont worry Polish Possy all of the quotes on this thread are cheesy. I think Im going to go and be sick now.


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## mover1 (12 May 2005)

I could only read the first page then I had to stop. If you guys were all trees I would have some wicked maple syrup for pancakes. what a sappy post.


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## Gramps (12 May 2005)

I think a Canadian soldier is the guy who orders the sandwich at the drive through at Tim Horton's when all you need is a coffee, the guy who always has stale coffee and cigarettes on his breath, the guy who leaves work everyday at ten minutes to four, the guy who is always right and you are always wrong, The guy who is an instant expert on every topic and in every trade in the Forces, the guy who always says "its all pensionable time", the guy who never wants to do better than just a pass on his PT test. This post was in jest, try not to take it too seriously.


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## mover1 (12 May 2005)

or the guy who eternally says   "i am going to get in shape and try for JTF" and never does


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## Gouki (13 May 2005)

At your age it may as well be in OZ


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## RossF (14 May 2005)

A Canuck!


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## pbi (15 May 2005)

Gramps said:
			
		

> I think a Canadian soldier is the guy who orders the sandwich at the drive through at Tim Horton's when all you need is a coffee, the guy who always has stale coffee and cigarettes on his breath, the guy who leaves work everyday at ten minutes to four, the guy who is always right and you are always wrong, The guy who is an instant expert on every topic and in every trade in the Forces, the guy who always says "its all pensionable time", the guy who never wants to do better than just a pass on his PT test. This post was in jest, try not to take it too seriously.



These are not all Canadian soldiers, by a long shot. But, all too sadly, this type does exist. They actually hate the military (or at least the idea of the military as a profession...) and every day that they stay in they are stealing their pay cheque. They are the first ones to submit a grievance about anything and everything under the sun, and to constantly counsel others how to screw the system. They fake PTSD, dishonouring those who have suffered psychological injury on ops and weakening their units by their absence. They are the ones who spread stupid, baseless rumours about important issues because they could never be bothered to get off their asses and find out the truth. They are the "MIR Commandos" who know how and when to get a sick chit to get out of everything. They are the ones whose families never come to family support briefings before deployments, then have hideous domestic disasters and afterwards lie that :   "_the Army never done nothin fer us_". Good riddance: go get a Mcjob somewhere.

Cheers.


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## Hunter911 (15 May 2005)

I believe the defination of the Canadian soldier is that they are resourseful, smart, strong, diligent, and above all else have sworn to serve their country and God for the better of their fellow citizens and man. They are the ones who will rise to the call when no one else can or will do it. Statements like this can be seen in acts like the invasion of Rome in WWII, spearheaded by our boys!


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## Gramps (15 May 2005)

pbi,  you are 100% correct in your assessment of my last post. That is exactly the reaction I was going for and I couldn't agree more. You are right, they do exist and are all to common. I have worked with and worked for this type of person more than once, I see them every day and they are on every Base/Wing and Unit and they really do sicken me to no end. 

Cheers


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## pbi (15 May 2005)

> [invasion of Rome in WWII/quote]
> 
> Really? I thought the US Army was first into Rome. We were on the other side of Italy, weren't we?
> 
> Cheers.


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## Hunter911 (15 May 2005)

It was a joint US Canadian operation that spearheaded the attack. They were known as the devils brigade and are now known in Canada as "Joint Task Force 2"  ;D :threat:


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## Acorn (15 May 2005)

Wow Hunter. I always thought the JTF2 guys were younger. 

Acorn


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## Kat Stevens (15 May 2005)

Found this somewhere, 


He is profane and irreverent, living as he does in a world full of capriciousness, frustration and disillusionment. He is perhaps the best-educated of his kind in history, but will rarely accord respect on the basis of mere degrees or titles. He speaks his own dialect, often incomprehensible to the layman.

He can be cold, cruel, and even brutal and is frequently insensitive. Killing is his profession and he strives very hard to become even more skilled at it. His model is the grey, muddy, hard-eyed slayer who took the untakeable at Vimy Ridge, endured the unendurable in the Scheldt and held the unholdable at Kapyong. He is a superlative practical diplomat; his efforts have brought peace to countless countries around the world. He is capable of astonishing acts of kindness, warmth and generosity. He will give you his last sip of water on a parched day and his last food to a hungry child; he will give his very life for the society he loves.

Danger and horror are his familiars and his sense of humour is accordingly sardonic. What the unknowing take as callousness is his defence against the unimaginable; he whistles through a career filled with graveyards.

His ethos is one of self-sacrifice and duty. He is sinfully proud of himself, of his unit and of his country and he is unique in that his commitment to his society is Total. No other trade or profession dreams of demanding such of its members and none could successfully try.

He loves his family dearly, sees them all too rarely and as often as not loses them to the demands of his profession. Loneliness is the price he accepts for the privilege of serving.

He accounts discomfort as routine and the search for personal gain as beneath him; he has neither understanding of nor patience for those motivated by self-interest, politics or money. His loyalty can be absolute, but it must be purchased. Paradoxically, the only coin accepted for that payment is also loyalty.

He devours life with big bites, knowing that each bite might be his last and his manners suffer thereby. He would rather die regretting the things he did than the ones he dared not try. He earns a good wage by most standards and, given the demands on him, is woefully underpaid.

He can be arrogant, thoughtless and conceited, but will spend himself, sacrifice everything for total strangers in places he cannot even pronounce. He considers political correctness a podium for self-righteous fools, but will die fighting for the rights of anyone he respects or pities.

He is a philosopher and a drudge, an assassin and a philanthropist, a servant and a leader, a disputer and a mediator, a Nobel Laureate peacekeeper and the Queen's Hit Man, a brawler and a healer, best friend and worst enemy. He is a rock, a goat, a fool, a sage, a drunk, a provider, a cynic and a romantic dreamer. Above it all, he is a hero for our time. You, pale stranger, sleep well at night only because he exists for you, the citizen who has never met him, has perhaps never thought of him and may even despise him. He is both your child and your guardian. His devotion to you is unwavering. He is a Canadian soldier.

--Author unknown--
  
CHIMO,  Kat


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## Kat Stevens (16 May 2005)

Naaah...too easy...

Kat


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## Slim (16 May 2005)

> His devotion to you is unwavering. He is a Canadian soldier.



I love it! About time someone wrote that!

Slim


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## Michael Dorosh (16 May 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> Oh my. Who wants to take this one?



At risk of stating the obvious, JTF-2 has no direct relation to the First Special Service Force.  Neither did the Canadian Airborne Regiment, who took the Battle Honours of the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion.  The 1SSF were known administratively as the 2nd Canadian Parachute Battalion.


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## Hunter911 (17 May 2005)

Not directly no, but thats where the units origins can be traced from.


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## Acorn (17 May 2005)

Nope.


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## Sh0rtbUs (17 May 2005)

Kat, thanks for posting that. Absolutely outstanding poem.


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## Gramps (18 May 2005)

Here is one source that supports the Devil's Brigade theory. Now don't read too much into this post, I'm just putting it out there okay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Brigade


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## Acorn (18 May 2005)

The flaw in that article is in this line:

"In Canada, today's elite and highly secretive JTF2 military unit is also modeled on the Devil's Brigade."

I don't recall an anti-terrorist role for 1SSF. They were closer to the WWII role of Commando. Despite the media's use of "commando" in reference to JTF2, among others, there is little or no relation. 

If you link to the wikipedia piece on JTF2 you'll also see the following:

"The Canadian Forces also has Army snipers, its Pathfinder courses held at 8 Wing/Canadian Forces Base Trenton and the Canadian graduates of the U.S. Army Ranger Course. In other countries these qualifications might be part of their Special Operations Forces units, but in Canada, they are embedded in conventional combat units and are not considered to be of a "special forces" nature."

And goes on to say:

"Lineage. The JTF2 states that it does NOT perpetuate the Canadian Airborne Regiment although some of its members have come from that now-disbanded unit. Rather it notes that Canadians served with distinction in several types of Allied Special Forces units during the Second World War. One such unit was the legendary U.S. and Canadian combined 1st Special Service Force or, as it was commonly known, "the Devil's Brigade." It achieved a sterling combat record despite overwhelming odds. While tactics, weapons and technology have changed, today's JTF 2 soldiers are perpetuating the basic qualities that define such units."

Which looks to me to be a claim to the "qualities" of those soldiers, not an actual claim to unit lineage. JTF2's origins are a matter of public record. Maybe their links should be to the RCMP?

Acorn


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## Gramps (18 May 2005)

As I had said. I was just putting the link out there. I saw someone post something and a few people immediately jumped on him telling him he was wrong witout backing up why they thought he was wrong. Sure maybe he should have posted something to back his comment up but, oh well he didn't. Honestly I don't think I could not care any less about the argument if I tried.


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## NateC (18 May 2005)

Hunter911 said:
			
		

> It was a joint US Canadian operation that spearheaded the attack. They were known as the devils brigade and are now known in Canada as "Joint Task Force 2"  ;D :threat:



My great-uncle was in the Black Devil's Brigade during World War two. The JTF-2 is not a spawn of the Black Devil's Brigade... at least to my understanding.


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## pbi (18 May 2005)

NateC said:
			
		

> My great-uncle was in the Black Devil's Brigade during World War two. The JTF-2 is not a spawn of the Black Devil's Brigade... at least to my understanding.



I think you may be confusing the Royal Winnipeg Rifles ("Little Black Devils" from the image on their capbadge) with the "Devils Brigade" which is the formation we are talking about. I've never heard of the "Black Devils' Brigade".

Cheers.


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## Acorn (18 May 2005)

1st SSF was also referred to as "the Black Devils" as opposed to "The Little Black Devils" of the R Wpg Rifles. The former got the name from Germans because the 1SSF guys would infiltrate their lines using blackened faces. 

Acorn


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## NateC (20 May 2005)

The Black Devils Brigade = The Devils Brigade... 


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0935553509/103-1556335-0695053?v=glance

If you see that book, I've read it.. twice.


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## Goober (21 May 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> He's surrendered his/her individuality and privacy in order to achieve a greater good.   In many cases, he's forfeited better paying jobs.



For me, that sums it up.


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