# RC Manager Delegation fo Authorities



## Lumber (16 Aug 2016)

My authorities as RC Administrator have been designated to me by my RC Manager.

If my RC Manager's qualifications (EMC, CSPS) lapse, he will no longer be able to exercise _his own_ signing authority. This is pretty clear.

However, should this happen, do the people he has designated as RC Administrators all lose _their_ signing authorities until the RC Manager re-certifies?

The FAM doesn't cover this particular scenario very well.

Cheers


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## George Wallace (16 Aug 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> My authorities as RC Administrator have been designated to me by my RC Manager.
> 
> If my RC Manager's qualifications (EMC, CSPS) lapse, he will no longer be able to exercise _his own_ signing authority. This is pretty clear.
> 
> ...



I suppose you could look at it as a similar case to where the RC Manager is replaced on posting by a new RC Manager.  Would you as a RC Administrator lose your signing authority in the interim?  There has to be some need for continuity.


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## MJP (16 Aug 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I suppose you could look at it as a similar case to where the RC Manager is replaced on posting by a new RC Manager.  Would you as a RC Administrator lose your signing authority in the interim?  There has to be some need for continuity.



That is apples and oranges in this case.  The change of an incumbent that delegates financial authority assumes that the incoming person is qualified and able to exercise their delegation.  That and the previous incumbent was fully qualified to delegate.  Those combined see that financial chain isn't broken and is allowable up to 8 weeks 

_FAM Chapter 1014-4-1 – Control of Financial Signing Authorities 

35. When a superior leaves a position permanently, newly appointed superiors shall ensure that new forms are prepared as soon as possible and no later than eight weeks following their appointment.

_

In this case, if a person in a posn has a delegation and their crse expires than their DOA is invalid and ergo any delegation they have done is invalid until they rectify the issue.

_FAM Chapter 1014-4-1 – Control of Financial Signing Authorities 

29. Incumbents may only exercise authorities delegated to their position if they have the necessary knowledge and training to do so.    

 &

Responsibilities of the Incumbent

b. Understanding the authorities and responsibilities he/she is authorized to exercise by way of the DoA form and maintaining up to date knowledge of applicable policy and procedures;
c.* Certifying that he/she has the necessary knowledge and applicable training to exercise these authorities and maintaining valid training certifications* as per the required training indicated in Annex A;
._


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## Lumber (16 Aug 2016)

MJP said:
			
		

> That is apples and oranges in this case.  The change of an incumbent that delegates financial authority assumes that the incoming person is qualified and able to exercise their delegation.  That and the previous incumbent was fully qualified to delegate.  Those combined see that financial chain isn't broken and is allowable up to 8 weeks
> 
> _FAM Chapter 1014-4-1 – Control of Financial Signing Authorities
> 
> ...



So, if my RC Manager's qualification lapses, our unit basically loses any ability to sign any financial documents until he rectifies the situation. Correct?


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## DAA (16 Aug 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> So, if my RC Manager's qualification lapses, our unit basically any ability to sign any financial documents until he rectifies the situation. Correct?



In an "Orwellian" world, you're technically correct.  However, even the Compt/RDAO people within your CoC recognize that this type of situation may occur from time to time, so they will exercise some discretion to allow for you to complete your day to day duties.   They aren't about to come out and cut you or anyone else off at the drop of a hat.   But they will get on the arse of the designated RC Manager to have them recertify and obtain current qualifications necessary to perform those functions.


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## Lumber (16 Aug 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> In an "Orwellian" world, you're technically correct.  However, even the Compt/RDAO people within your CoC recognize that this type of situation may occur from time to time, so they will exercise some discretion to allow for you to complete your day to day duties.   They aren't about to come out and cut you or anyone else off at the drop of a hat.   But they will get on the arse of the designated RC Manager to have them recertify and obtain current qualifications necessary to perform those functions.



Thanks again, DAA.

Sad that I have more confidence looking for answers to questions like these on here, then by trying to contact my RDAO, who's identity and location I am unaware of...


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## DAA (16 Aug 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Sad that I have more confidence looking for answers to questions like these on here, then by trying to contact my RDAO, who's identity and location I am unaware of...



With time and experience, you'll some day know where to turn for your answers and it may not be here.  Army.ca is a good starting point, plenty of wealth and knowledge and opinions abound.  Nevertheless, it's always incumbent upon yourself to take this information and put it to good use but only after doing your homework.

You just need to find the right person in your area who is willing to not only entertain your questions but actually give you a hand in finding the answers.   That's how I learned, being on the receiving end of questions.


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## MJP (16 Aug 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> So, if my RC Manager's qualification lapses, our unit basically loses any ability to sign any financial documents until he rectifies the situation. Correct?



Technically yes but as DAA pointed out it depends on the RDAO.  At the end of the day though if something goes through on an expired DOA it could be contracting irregularity and dependant on when it is caught has serious implications .


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## Lumber (16 Aug 2016)

MJP said:
			
		

> Technically yes but as DAA pointed out it depends on the RDAO.  At the end of the day though if something goes through on an expired DOA it could be contracting irregularity and dependant on when it is caught has serious implications .



We don't do much contracting with the exception of ordering PP&S through Staples. Can't really screw that one up. Otherwise, the biggest issue is signing off Class-A pay (reserve unit), and approving travel.


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## CountDC (19 Aug 2016)

You could always send everything to the CO for approval.  I imagine once he/she is aware that everything financial will need to go to them until the RC Mgr completes the course that there would be some pressure applied.


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## MJP (19 Aug 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> You could always send everything to the CO for approval.  I imagine once he/she is aware that everything financial will need to go to them until the RC Mgr completes the course that there would be some pressure applied.



The kicker on that is if they only have 1 cost center then the CO is suppose to be the RC Manager.

On that note a few years back I had to go get the CO to sign off on a $1.28 hose that was HPR. The Base Sup O's EMC expired the day previous and therefore all his pers under him didn't have valid DOAs.  He was redoing it that day but the hose was super ultra important and the entire world would have ended if it wasn't bought that morning, so off I went cap in hand to the CO.


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## Lumber (19 Aug 2016)

MJP said:
			
		

> The kicker on that is if they only have 1 cost center then the CO is suppose to be the RC Manager.



Yea, I didn't want to say it before, but there's only one RC Manager at my unit; the CO.


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## CountDC (23 Aug 2016)

For DOA the CO has Base Commander and other Equivalants (DND 2334). He can (and usually does) assign someone else as RC Mgr by approving their DOA.  As CO they still maintain ultimate authority on the finances but the RC Mgr does the day to day running of things.  happy to say I am no longer an RC Mgr as I was posted.  At a reserve unit the RC Mgr would normally be the Adjt, CC or Fin NCO depending on your staffing and bde/div policy so that you have someone full time taking care of the unit finances.


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## Lumber (23 Aug 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> For DOA the CO has Base Commander and other Equivalants (DND 2334). He can (and usually does) assign someone else as RC Mgr by approving their DOA.  As CO they still maintain ultimate authority on the finances but the RC Mgr does the day to day running of things.  happy to say I am no longer an RC Mgr as I was posted.  At a reserve unit the RC Mgr would normally be the Adjt, CC or Fin NCO depending on your staffing and bde/div policy so that you have someone full time taking care of the unit finances.



Definitely not the way we've been doing things in NAVRES. The CO is the RC Mgr, the AdminO, TrgO, CC and SHO Sup are all RC Administrators. However, with regard to pay, and pay only, the AdminO is designated as the MPAO (military pay admin officer), with CC as Pay Manager, and only those two can sign off on pay documents.


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## CountDC (24 Aug 2016)

but does he actually function as an RC Mgr or is it just on paper.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (24 Aug 2016)

In my days, the CO of a Naval Reserve Unit certainly functioned as the RC Mgr. So much so, in fact that anything RC usually went straight up to him/her from the (then Unit's Supply Officer, now, I guess) Admin O without ever passing through the X.O's hands, who was completely out of the RC loop.


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## DAA (24 Aug 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> For DOA the CO has Base Commander and other Equivalants (DND 2334). He can (and usually does) assign someone else as RC Mgr by approving their DOA.  As CO they still maintain ultimate authority on the finances but the RC Mgr does the day to day running of things.  happy to say I am no longer an RC Mgr as I was posted.  At a reserve unit the RC Mgr would normally be the Adjt, CC or Fin NCO depending on your staffing and bde/div policy so that you have someone full time taking care of the unit finances.



You're not suppose to have more than one RC Manager against a Cost Centre, it just doesn't work that way anymore.  Anyone delegated these days, is usually done as an RC Adminstrator (ie; the day to day operations person).  RC Managers can only delegate spending authority "downwards" and no individual DoA item will be "equivalent" to what the RC Manager was originally authorized and will always be less.

I learned that one first hand, after being an RC Manager across 9 individual Cost Centres.  Then suddenly one year, I became an RC Admin and the CO was the only RC Mgr.  Never impacted on my day to day duties, it merely required me to obtain his personal approval on purchases over $5K.


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## CountDC (24 Aug 2016)

Correct and we didn't - CO's are that - CO's not RC Mgrs and have different authorities than RC Mgrs.   For example a CO can authorize travel on TD over 100km while an RC Mgr is restricted to travel of 100km or less.  If your CO does not have a DOA for Base Commander and Equivalants vice an RC Mgr DOA then who is approving the units travel over 100km as no one in the unit has the authority. There are other differences such as CO can write off debt, RC Mgrs can't, CO can write off material up to 250k, RC Mgrs are at 5k.  

We just went through a DMPAP Policy Compliance this year and the DOA's were done correctly.  CO's are ultimately responsible for all the unit finances but can designate someone as the RC Mgr. That RC Mgr can in turn assign RC Admins that perform certain parts for them such as 32/34 of Financial Documentation.


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## dapaterson (24 Aug 2016)

Only non-NCR COs can auth travel over 100km; an NCR CO cannot.  They require the authority of the commander of a command to send anyone on TD over 100km.

Welcome to Ottawa...


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## Lumber (24 Aug 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> but does he actually function as an RC Mgr or is it just on paper.



Pretty much just on paper, but that's really dependant on which unit you are at.

At my unit, I've basically been delegated everything except travel approval, and even then my CO would probably be happy to give it to me if there wasn't a directive saying RC Managers _shall not _delegate travel authority.

Otherwise, I sign every financial related document at the unit, with the except of the budget. For procurement, I have some arcs of fire as to how much I can spend and what I can spend it on, and I always consult with the XO (DCO) whenever in doubt.

For matters of pay, however, the XO isn't in the loop at all. In fact, the CO's not even really in the loop either now that I think about it...


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## DAA (24 Aug 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Correct and we didn't - CO's are that - CO's not RC Mgrs and have different authorities than RC Mgrs.   For example a CO can authorize travel on TD over 100km while an RC Mgr is restricted to travel of 100km or less.  If your CO does not have a DOA for Base Commander and Equivalants vice an RC Mgr DOA then who is approving the units travel over 100km as no one in the unit has the authority. There are other differences such as CO can write off debt, RC Mgrs can't, CO can write off material up to 250k, RC Mgrs are at 5k.
> 
> We just went through a DMPAP Policy Compliance this year and the DOA's were done correctly.  CO's are ultimately responsible for all the unit finances but can designate someone as the RC Mgr. That RC Mgr can in turn assign RC Admins that perform certain parts for them such as 32/34 of Financial Documentation.



CO's authorize the member "absence" from their place of duty.  RC Manager or Admins authorize remibursement of expenses associated with that.  Financial Signing authority, cannot be delegated..  That's actually a question on the 32/33/34  EMC Course.     

At the end of the day, it's all about the prudent use of allocated public funds.


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## dapaterson (24 Aug 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> As far as travel restrictions on distance, that's probably a local unit policy.  At the end of the day, it's all about the prudent use of allocated public funds.



No.  Read the delegation of authorities document, and the travel policy.  Spelled out in black and white.  (With occasional bits of grey).


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## MJP (24 Aug 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Correct and we didn't - CO's are that - CO's not RC Mgrs and have different authorities than RC Mgrs.   For example a CO can authorize travel on TD over 100km while an RC Mgr is restricted to travel of 100km or less.  If your CO does not have a DOA for Base Commander and Equivalants vice an RC Mgr DOA then who is approving the units travel over 100km as no one in the unit has the authority. There are other differences such as CO can write off debt, RC Mgrs can't, CO can write off material up to 250k, RC Mgrs are at 5k.
> 
> We just went through a DMPAP Policy Compliance this year and the DOA's were done correctly.  CO's are ultimately responsible for all the unit finances but can designate someone as the RC Mgr. That RC Mgr can in turn assign RC Admins that perform certain parts for them such as 32/34 of Financial Documentation.



I will put the actual policy up tomorrow but if a unit only has one Cost Center then only the CO has full authorities and is the de facto "RC Manager" even though he will have a CO & Equiv DOA.  Only when a unit has multiple Cost Centers can anyone other than the CO be delegated/designated as a RC Manager.



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> As far as travel restrictions on distance, that's probably a local unit policy.  At the end of the day, it's all about the prudent use of allocated public funds.



Not a local policy at all, it is a nationally directed policy.


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## CountDC (25 Aug 2016)

Would that be RDIMS # 1158219 Delegation of Authorities for Financial Administration for DND and the CAF A-FN-100-002/AG-006 you are referring to?

Be interesting to bring up when DMPAP arrives here at the new position for their scheduled visit.  earlier it was good to go and now maybe not.  These constant changes are annoying.  

DAA: What was presented to us is the CO's are not just authorizing the absence - they are authorizing the actual travel.  They are the final signature on the ITA/MTA authorizing the travel indicated there.  The travel restrictions are also indicated in the document above.

Delegation of Financial Signing Authority is via the DOA form raised IAW DND and The CAF Delegation of Auth for Fin Admin Matrix.  When they say it can not be delegated they mean as RC Mgr I could not delegate someone else the signing authorities of RC Mgr but I could assign someone else as RC Admin with the delegated signing authorities in the matrix.  Noted though there is no longer an RC Mgr, the matrix now reads Other RC Mgr.


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## DAA (25 Aug 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No.  Read the delegation of authorities document, and the travel policy.  Spelled out in black and white.  (With occasional bits of grey).





			
				CountDC said:
			
		

> DAA: What was presented to us is the CO's are not just authorizing the absence - they are authorizing the actual travel.  They are the final signature on the ITA/MTA authorizing the travel indicated there.  The travel restrictions are also indicated in the document above.



Yes, my bad.  I recall seeing that during the implementation of the ITA forms.  Just another way to curb the use of 2106 Travel.    Thanks for pointing this out!!!!


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## Lumber (25 Aug 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No.  Read the delegation of authorities document, and the travel policy.  Spelled out in black and white.  (With occasional bits of grey).



This is the direction we've received from NAVRESHQ:

•	RC Managers can only approve local travel (local travel being within 100km of a member's normal workplace);
•	For the NRDs, the CO can designate an RC Manager (i.e. XO, Admin O, or any personnel acting as the CO’s 2 I/C for financial matters). All remaining personnel are designated as RC Administrators.

However, at least in the central region, CO's aren't designating RC Managers, but rather designated RC Administrators.


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