# army and air rank questions



## MCpl ??????? (3 Dec 2004)

hi i was just wondering if since aircadets have 1 less rank than Army Cadets, is Master Corporal the same as Sargeant i mean do they have the same authority?


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## QOR-Sargent (3 Dec 2004)

No, you would be a corporal. I don't like it at all though. I had 1 air sargeant and 1 flight sargeant come to my corps this year. I thought that they would be a Mcpl and a Sgt but they gave them Sgt and Warrant. I haited it because the one air sargeant knew nothing he knew as much as our Mcpl's in my corps. It was silly!!!!


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## sgt_mandal (3 Dec 2004)

But the CATOS say no matter what, you get to keep your rank. It's stupid, i know.


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## Burrows (3 Dec 2004)

QOR-Sergeant said:
			
		

> No, you would be a corporal. I don't like it at all though. I had 1 air sargeant and 1 flight sargeant come to my corps this year. I thought that they would be a Mcpl and a Sgt but they gave them Sgt and Warrant. I haited it because the one air sargeant knew nothing he knew as much as our Mcpl's in my corps. It was silly!!!!



If he knew nothing then your Jr NCOs must be pretty stupid....also please refrain from bashing because of element.


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## MCpl ??????? (3 Dec 2004)

that is pretty anoying, that means we have to work harder than the air cadets


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## Burrows (3 Dec 2004)

Really? How so? With more ranks you would figure it would be easier would you not?


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## Spartan (5 Dec 2004)

MCpl is an appointment (though all cadet ranks are appointments ) as a sr Cpl.
on the Sea Side - QPO1 doesn't have an equivalency either - I can't remember the distinction - Its akin to an appointment but more so in terms of position *I think.
---
a relative equivalency chart
*not official- but seems to jive ok in terms of training etc
http://www.cadets.net/pra/6air/rank_e.htm


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## sgt_mandal (5 Dec 2004)

I though they took out the QPO1 a long time ago?
http://groups.msn.com/RCAirCS631SentinelCadetCentral/asd.msnw


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## tabernac (5 Dec 2004)

FSgt_mandal said:
			
		

> I though they took out the QPO1 a long time ago?
> http://groups.msn.com/RCAirCS631SentinelCadetCentral/asd.msnw



No, they took out QPO2(or so I heard).


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## catalyst (5 Dec 2004)

Aye, Cheeky_Monkey, they did remove QPO2. 

There is still a QPO1 rank


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## q_1966 (16 Dec 2004)

Our Corps has a former Air Cadet Cpl. who moved from A.L.T.A  to B.C. and transfered to Army Cadets, Because he was a Cpl. and was one for quite a along time, he got promoted right away to Mcpl.

- Shawn


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## M16 (16 Dec 2004)

What's the highest rank in army cadets


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## Burrows (16 Dec 2004)

Chief Warrant Officer


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## tabernac (16 Dec 2004)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> Aye, Cheeky_Monkey, they did remove QPO2.
> 
> There is still a QPO1 rank



I do know that much. But what was the insignia for QPO2?


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## catalyst (16 Dec 2004)

3 chevrons one anchor. 

Like leading cadet, but with one more chevron.


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## tabernac (16 Dec 2004)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> 3 chevrons one anchor.
> 
> Like leading cadet, but with one more chevron.


But then that would be a PO2? After some thinking, QPO2 would probabily be the current PO2 insignia without the anchors.


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## catalyst (16 Dec 2004)

No. PO2 has two crossed anchors and three chevrons. 

the QPo2 insigna has one anchor and three chevrons.


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## tabernac (17 Dec 2004)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> No. PO2 has two crossed anchors and three chevrons.



Thats what I said...


			
				cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> QPO2 would probabily be the current PO2 insignia without the anchors.



Any way, thanks for answering my question.


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## armygurl_557 (22 Dec 2004)

What does the Q in QPO2 stand for? I'm sorry, but I'm trying to further my knowlege of the other two Elements.


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## Burrows (22 Dec 2004)

there is no longer a QPO2 but there is a QPO1 ... Qualified Petty Officer 1st Class...I think its like our sgt.


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## armygurl_557 (22 Dec 2004)

thats soo messed up.. I'll never under stand the air and sea ranks.. So complicated..


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## condor888000 (22 Dec 2004)

Sea ranks I can understand, but air has fewer than army...


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## QOR-Sargent (22 Dec 2004)

Burrows said:
			
		

> If he knew nothing then your Jr NCOs must be pretty stupid....also please refrain from bashing because of element.



No I am not bashing the elements! Its not like that at all. It was just the Sgt he didn't know anything! Like nothing at all.


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## tabernac (22 Dec 2004)

To answer all your questions about "What rank is equal to what rank in (element name here)?"

I have come up with this link.​
http://www.regions.cadets.forces.gc.ca/pra/6air/rank_e.htm


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## Burrows (23 Dec 2004)

Whats the point of having QPO1 with no equivalent when it could easily fill the sgt rank and have the PO2 fill MCpl...I MEAN COME ON PEOPLE I KNOW ITS THE MILITARY BUT HOLY SHIT COME ON!


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## catalyst (23 Dec 2004)

huh?


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## Burrows (23 Dec 2004)

If you look at the site stated above my previous post you will see what I mean.


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## Spartan (23 Dec 2004)

It has to do with the jobs of each (from what I can discern)
ones an appointment (MCpl), ones akin to a position(QP01)

as I said on that site, it's a rough equivalency chart that I put together after much discussion on another forum that is cadet related. It was in this discussion that we discussed what is taught where and who has what responsibility.


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## Love793 (30 Dec 2004)

The problem here lies in the fact that Air Cadets are still using the old Air Force ranks (pre unification)  The CF had the same problem in 1968 when they unified the RCN, Cdn Army and RCAF.  Here's the break down.  In 1968 the Airforce and Army both had more ranks than the Navy.  To solve this prob, they "invented" the Appointed rank of Master Corporal (Master Seaman for those so inclined).

Pte = Air Craftsman  = Pte
Cpl  = Leading Air Craftsman = LCpl
MCpl= Corporal = Cpl
Sgt= Sgt = Sgt
WO= FSgt = S/Sgt
MWO= WO2 = WO2
CWO= WO1 = WO2


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## Michael Dorosh (31 Dec 2004)

Love793 said:
			
		

> In 1968 the Airforce and Army both had more ranks than the Navy.  To solve this prob, they "invented" the Appointed rank of Master Corporal (Master Seaman for those so inclined).



NO

The Army did not add a single rank, they reorganized.  Note the following table is not a strict breakdown of "equivalencies", just a listing of the ranks that existed  You can see that the post-unification Army actually had one LESS rank, if you include lance corporal and lance sergeants as ranks.  Even deleting the L/Sgt appointment, you get the same number of ranks and appointments.

Pre Unification    Post Unification

Pte                     Pte
L/Cpl (appointment)  Cpl
Cpl                          MCpl (appointment)
L/Sgt (appointment)
Sgt                           Sgt
Staff Sgt                    WO
WO II                        MWO
WO I                         CWO

More info on the evolution of corporals at my site at www.canadiansoldiers.com - look under RANKS AND RESPONSIBILITIES


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## Love793 (31 Dec 2004)

I stand corrected, however I was summarising :'(


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## Jonny Boy (18 Jan 2005)

FSgt_mandal said:
			
		

> But the CATOS say no matter what, you get to keep your rank. It's stupid, i know.



in my corp it doesn't matter where you came from or your rank if you are leaving another corp   and joining ours that you will be put down one rank untill you can prove that you deserve the rank back


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## Burrows (18 Jan 2005)

Lets see....then your officer cadre would be in breach of CATO regulation and as such could have punishments follow if the cadet reported it to the  RCSU.


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## Saorse (18 Jan 2005)

I cannot say I agree with the idea of stripping a cadet one rank until they prove they deserve it. Demote them if they do not pull their weight, but do not punish them for switching. If I switch from the Army to the Navy in the Regular Forces, my rank is adjusted, not hampered with.

Can't say I'm a fan of that.


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## Scott (18 Jan 2005)

MCpl Saorse said:
			
		

> If I switch from the Army to the Navy in the Regular Forces, my rank is adjusted, not hampered with.
> 
> Can't say I'm a fan of that.



What on earth do you mean by this?


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## Inch (18 Jan 2005)

MCpl Saorse said:
			
		

> I cannot say I agree with the idea of stripping a cadet one rank until they prove they deserve it. Demote them if they do not pull their weight, but do not punish them for switching. If I switch from the Army to the Navy in the Regular Forces, my rank is adjusted, not hampered with.
> 
> Can't say I'm a fan of that.



That's true, you don't lose your rank, but you redo your training with the exception of BMQ/BOTC. Would you rather that happened?


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## Ex-Dragoon (18 Jan 2005)

MCpl Saorse said:
			
		

> I cannot say I agree with the idea of stripping a cadet one rank until they prove they deserve it. Demote them if they do not pull their weight, but do not punish them for switching. If I switch from the Army to the Navy in the Regular Forces, my rank is adjusted, not hampered with.
> 
> Can't say I'm a fan of that.



Ummm...excuse me but if your a MAster Corporal you immediately go down to Corporal

Don't post info unless you have first hand knowledge. Its in the Guidelines!


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## aesop081 (18 Jan 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Ummm...excuse me but if your a MAster Corporal you immediately go down to Corporal
> 
> Don't post info unless you have first hand knowledge. Its in the Guidelines!



Exactly...you go down..i have first hand knowledge ...as i seem to be a corporal again !!!!


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## Inch (18 Jan 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Ummm...excuse me but if your a MAster Corporal you immediately go down to Corporal
> 
> Don't post info unless you have first hand knowledge. Its in the Guidelines!



Ex-D, Officers don't go down a rank, all the navs and other remusters going through pilot training stayed at the rank they had before the remuster.


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## aesop081 (18 Jan 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> Ex-D, Officers don't go down a rank, all the navs and other remusters going through pilot training stayed at the rank they had before the remuster.



So by extension if a major ANAV remustered to pilot , he woud remain a major ??? Seems slightly odd since NCMs, no matter what rank revert to Cpl upon remuster....how can you be a supervisor in a new trade where you have no experience ?


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## Ex-Dragoon (18 Jan 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> Ex-D, Officers don't go down a rank, all the navs and other remusters going through pilot training stayed at the rank they had before the remuster.



Another case of BOHICA for the rank and file I guess.


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## Inch (18 Jan 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Another case of BOHICA for the rank and file I guess.



Seems like it.....  :-[

aesop, you're forgetting that an Lt can be an aircraft captain with a Maj co-pilot, just because you're a Maj, it doesn't mean you're in a supervisory role, at least in an aircraft. When majors come back to a community (TacHel, MH, etc) after being in a ground job, they'll be instructed by Capts since most instructors are Capts.   I don't know of any majors that have remustered, but I know lots of Capts from all kinds of different backgrounds, Infantry, ANav, MARE, MARS, etc. I also met an Infantry Capt turned MARS officer and I know a few pilots that went M.O. or Int and they all kept their ranks.


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## Ex-Dragoon (18 Jan 2005)

And they wonder why the average person is only serving their BE out...


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## aesop081 (18 Jan 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> Seems like it.....   :-[
> 
> aesop, you're forgetting that an Lt can be an aircraft captain with a Maj co-pilot, just because you're a Maj, it doesn't mean you're in a supervisory role, at least in an aircraft. When majors come back to a community (TacHel, MH, etc) after being in a ground job, they'll be instructed by Capts since most instructors are Capts.   I don't know of any majors that have remustered, but I know lots of Capts from all kinds of different backgrounds, Infantry, ANav, MARE, MARS, etc. I also met an Infantry Capt turned MARS officer and I know a few pilots that went M.O. or Int and they all kept their ranks.



Yes i know what you mean by that but........first off , IMHO, Capt is the same as Cpl....a working body with some responsabilities ( granted at a different level) so remustering as a captain to me means stayind as a captain.   As far as my example of a major, as far fetched as it seems, it could happen.   Yes i know that the AC could be a Lt and the FO a major.   Thats fine and dandy in the A/C but on the ground...who do you think the supervisor is ?   I have been in the air force a short time yes but long enough to see the situation you describe in practical terms. But i don't think that a major should keep his rank if he/she remusters to another MOC.   In the NCM world , a cpl who decides to remuster, stays a cpl......but any higher than that....you go down ( as in my case).

No disrespect intended....Sir !


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## Inch (18 Jan 2005)

Hey no worries, you've got to step foot in an aircraft with me or someone I know at some point.  > 

It could very well be, to be honest, I don't know of any Majors that have remustered, I don't think it's a very common occurrence. As a Capt I could have the same quals as a Maj, Advance Aerospace Operations Course or AFOA or whatever they call it now, plus a bunch of others. I've already got my language profile, 2 more OPMEs to do, etc, so I really don't see much of a problem with having a Maj keep his rank, at least from an Air Force point of view. I have a feeling it may be different for other trades but I can't say from experience.

Don't sweat dropping the rank, you'll be an MCpl a year after you get your wings. Sgt will follow not too long after that, it is the working rank for AESOps and FEs afterall.  ;D


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## aesop081 (18 Jan 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> ......Hey no worries, you've got to step foot in an aircraft with me or someone I know at some point.   >
> 
> 
> ......Don't sweat dropping the rank, you'll be an MCpl a year after you get your wings. Sgt will follow not too long after that, it is the working rank for AESOps and FEs afterall.   ;D



Hehe.......give me a chance to show my skills at least before you sabotage me  

FE's have to be SGT or above for CP-140s or CC-130s but they are mostly Cpls for CH-146s. Senior NCO is a requirement only for 4 enginer FW.

And i'm not worried about my demotion, i'm the happiest Cpl in NATO but i just think that the reason we drop in rank is also valid for you guys........


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## foxtwo (20 Mar 2005)

I know that in my squadron, it is very difficult to get promoted, and you shouldn't assume that a certain element gives promotions away like candy. I know some squadrons that do it, and I think it sucks.


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## aesop081 (20 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> I know that in my squadron, it is very difficult to get promoted, and you shouldn't assume that a certain element gives promotions away like candy. I know some squadrons that do it, and I think it sucks.



In my MOC, appointment ot MCpl is automatic one year to the day after receiving your wings...no ifs and buts ! It has nothing to do with unit policies or anything, its the way it is in the trade.


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## Inch (20 Mar 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> In my MOC, appointment ot MCpl is automatic one year to the day after receiving your wings...no ifs and buts ! It has nothing to do with unit policies or anything, its the way it is in the trade.



I think he's talking about cadet squadrons. I don't think he realized we were talking RegF.


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## aesop081 (20 Mar 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> I think he's talking about cadet squadrons. I don't think he realized we were talking RegF.



That makes sense...oops, oh well


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