# The Via Rail Promotion For CF Members Thread



## 211RadOp

From the VIA Rail Web Site

VIA Rail to Honour Canadian Forces And National Defence Employees With Free Travel This Summer

Halifax/Quebec City, March 26, 2008 – VIA Rail Canada is proud to honour Canada’s current and former Canadian Forces personnel, National Defence employees, and their families, with a special appreciation fare during the month of July. 

During this time, members of the Canadian Forces and National Defence employees will benefit from free unlimited travel in Comfort class anywhere on VIA’s network. With more than half a million current or retired service personnel eligible, the special fare is the first of its kind.

“Like all Canadians we at VIA are proud of the Canadian Forces and pleased when we can help to remind our fellow citizens of their contribution,” said VIA Rail’s Chairman of the Board Donald A. Wright. “In the past, VIA has put the spotlight on our troops and their families through commemorative Remembrance Day trains for the Year of the Veteran and the Year of the War Bride. We hope that this special offer will allow members of the Canadian Forces and their families to experience the country in a way that only the train can offer,” added Mr. Wright. 

“As Minister responsible for VIA Rail, I am pleased VIA will honour Canadian Forces members and their families with these special fares, and I hope they and their fellow Canadians will take advantage of all VIA has to offer this summer,” said Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. “July is also the 400th anniversary of the founding of Quebec City and I hope Canadians take advantage of this offer to join the festivities.”

“The support shown by VIA Rail to Canada’s men and women in uniform, as well as civilian defence employees, is appreciated by the entire defence community,” said Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. “This initiative will allow members of the Canadian Forces to visit more of the country that they have committed to defend.”

"VIA Rail's offer is one more way we can repay the great debt that all Canadians owe to the brave men and women who have always been willing to defend our nation," said Greg Thompson, Minister of Veterans Affairs.  "This July, our truest heroes will find it easier than ever to see more of the remarkable country they've helped build."

In addition to being able to travel for free with the special fare, members of the Canadian Forces can also bring up to five family members travelling with them at 50 per cent off the regular applicable fare. The offer applies to all current and retired members of the Canadian Forces, Reserve personnel, Department of National Defence employees, and Public Fund employees.
For more information, or to reserve a ticket, go to viarail.ca/forces or call toll-free 1 888 VIA-Rail (1888 842-7245) or 1 800 268-9503 (hearing impaired).

As Canada’s national passenger rail service, VIA Rail Canada's mandate is to provide efficient, environmentally responsible and cost effective passenger transportation services, both in Canada's business corridor and in remote and rural regions of the country. Serving more than 450 communities with a network of inter-city, transcontinental and regional trains, demand for rail services continues to grow as more Canadians turn to train travel as a safe and convenient travel choice.


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## medaid

Oh wow... this is perfect!


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## Redeye

Now that is amazing.  I'm really impressed by that, getting to go visit my folks for free will be incredible!


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## Celticgirl

Wow, that is an incredible offer! Good on them.


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## ark

Where is the fine print? It looks too good to be true.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Alright.....a quick thread hijack.


How/where does one get 'proof' of past service?


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## Jarnhamar

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Alright.....a quick thread hijack.
> 
> 
> How/where does one get 'proof' of past service?



Approach them and tell them you had a really hard basic training course.
A retired service member won't be able to resist scoffing and telling you how hard it was WAY BACK.


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## ark

> Conditions for the Canadian Forces Family Appreciation Fare
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Valid for travel between July 1, 2008 and July 31, 2008 (inclusive).
> Qualifying adult passenger is entitled to complimentary travel in Comfort class within Canada throughout the VIA Rail network on any VIA train.
> Up to five additional immediate family members may travel in Comfort class with the qualifying adult passenger at 50% off the adult regular Comfort class fare provided all passengers travel together on the same trains and dates.
> Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is in possession of either a valid DND photo identification card, Dependent ID card, or Canex "Club XTra" card.
> Immediate family members are defined to include the qualifying member's mother, father, spouse or common-law partner or child or a child for which the qualifying adult passenger is a legal guardian.
> Additionally, this special promotional fare may be combined with VIA's existing "Kids Travel Free" promotion, allowing each adult 18 years of age or older to bring one child 2-11 (family member or non-family member) free of charge on the same trains and dates.
> With the exception of the "Kids Travel Free" promotion, this discount cannot be combined with any other discount, fare plan, companion fare program, travel product or employee rail pass.
> Your ticket must be picked up at a VIA Rail ticket counter with a valid DND photo identification card, Dependent ID card or Canex "Club XTra" card.
> Once issued, tickets may be refunded or exchanged without service charge. In the case of ticket exchanges, new tickets must meet the conditions of this fare plan, and all passengers must continue to travel together on the same trains and dates.
> Unlimited stopovers are allowed without additional charge.
> A separate ticket must be obtained for each passenger travelling.
> Offer excludes members of the RCMP.
> Not applicable to bookings made online at viarail.ca or with a travel agent or tour operator.
> Reservations for this special promotion must be made directly with VIA Rail, either by telephone at
> 1-888-VIARAIL (1-888-842-7245) or 1 800 268-9503 (hearing impaired), or at a VIA station.
> When booking, please refer to the Canadian Forces Family Appreciation Fare or request Discount 11279.
> There is no limit to the number of complimentary trips that may be taken during the validity period, provided all conditions and restrictions are met for each trip.



http://viarail.ca/forces/en_condition_july.html

Ok I found the fine print. Now, where is the fine print of the fine print.


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## Blackadder1916

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> How/where does one get 'proof' of past service?





> The offer applies to all current and *retired members* of the Canadian Forces, Reserve personnel, Department of National Defence employees, and Public Fund employees.





> Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is *in possession of either a valid DND photo identification card*, Dependent ID card, or Canex "Club XTra" card.



Retired members will have a CF75 Record of Service/Identification Card.  

Finally a reason to get mine replaced, but how quickly will NDHQ respond.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Retired members will have a CF75 Record of Service/Identification Card.



...never heard of it. I have been out a long time, can anyone slide me towards a link for help?


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## kratz

Thank you for the links.. I saw this on the news this afternoon and could not find a link to it on their website.


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## TN2IC

I was there for the speech...  ^-^


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## Shec

I'm wondering if an ex-militia man from 35 years ago with an Honourable Release, proven by his original CF Release Certificate and a copy of his service record from Tunney's Pasture,  would be eligible for this deal ?


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## Blackadder1916

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ...never heard of it. I have been out a long time, can anyone slide me towards a link for help?



CFAO 15-2 Annex D is applicable ref
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/015-02_e.asp


> SECTION 1 -- FORMS CF 54 AND CF 75, CERTIFICATES OF SERVICE
> DESCRIPTION
> 
> 2.     Form CF 54 is a certificate signed by the CDS for presentation to each qualified member.  The document is of a size and quality that is suitable for framing.
> 
> 3.     Form CF 75 is a plasticized bilingual card designed to serve as a convenient record of service and secondarily as a means of identification to be carried by the recipient.
> 
> 4.     Service particulars on Forms CF 54 and CF 75 are shown in the official language requested by the member.
> 
> ELIGIBILITY
> 
> 5.     Effective 31 January 2000, forms CF 54 and CF 75 shall be issued to a member who has completed 10 or more years service in any component of the Canadian Forces (CF) or who, at the time of release, was entitled to an immediate annuity.  The only exception is that these documents will not be issued to members released under item 1 (misconduct) or 2 (unsatisfactory service).


the reference continues including info about requesting.


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## Mike Baker

Whoa this is amazing. BZ to VIA!


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## X-mo-1979

So me and my retired service spouse and child can travel for free!
Sweet deal.
Maybe I'll actually be home for a week during that time!


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## PMedMoe

Must make travel plans for July...... ;D


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## TN2IC

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> So me and my retired service spouse and child can travel for free!
> Sweet deal.
> Maybe I'll actually be home for a week during that time!




Trains don't sail across to the Rock...


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## Mike Baker

Sgt  Schultz said:
			
		

> Trains don't sail across to the Rock...


:rofl:


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## vonGarvin

Hot damn!  I will be on leave during the entire month of July!  If I read things right, for me, my wife and our two kids, it will cost 1/2 an adult's rate to travel ANYWHERE in Canada.  ("Kids travel free": she takes one with her, I take one with me, so to speak).  I think my summer leave plans have just changed!  I'm not driving back to NB: I'm taking the train!  We're taking the train to Ontario to see everyone!  Heck, we just may go to BC on that funky rail car to see the Rockies!

Thank You VIA rail!


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## slowmode

WoW this is amazing..if only I was not on course this summer


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## brihard

Sweeeeeeeeet!

Via, you guys rock.

I take the train pretty often anyway, but this is just too cool. Here's hoping my pre-deployment leave at least partly coincides with July.


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## RangerRay

Too bad there are no VIA trains where I live... 

When I went Supp List, my unit took my ID from me.  I wouldn't be able to prove my service anyways!


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## X-mo-1979

Sgt  Schultz said:
			
		

> Trains don't sail across to the Rock...



Magical things happen on the island of soldor. (sp?)

Hey good point actually!Maybe Marine Atlantic could cut fee's to and from NFLD all summer for vet's and serving members!

Of course how else would they scam over 600 dollars per way out of me and my family.Hell it's only part of the TCH (another discussion for another time)

Thanks to VIA rail.


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## EW

I read the 'terms and conditions,' and then reread them again, and I still couldn't believe what I was reading.  Then decided to say 'what the hell' and jumped in with both feet and booked a train out west.  Called the VIA numbers provided, and had a very easy time of it.  Just had to tell him what type of ID I would be using when I pick up the tickets.  I'll be picking up the tickets tomorrow.

Checked out the same fare on the VIA travel planner and for two people we saved ~$3500.00.  I've always dreamed of crossing the country (or at least 3/4 of it) by train.  Long way to go in 'comfort' class, but I figure this is a rare event.

Wow.  Never thought I'd see the day.


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## Strike

I'm thinking I may do the same thing...with a few breaks in between for overnight visits to friends.  I may even go visit my sister in Halifax!


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## Meridian

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Hot damn!  I will be on leave during the entire month of July!  If I read things right, for me, my wife and our two kids, it will cost 1/2 an adult's rate to travel ANYWHERE in Canada.  ("Kids travel free": she takes one with her, I take one with me, so to speak).  I think my summer leave plans have just changed!  I'm not driving back to NB: I'm taking the train!  We're taking the train to Ontario to see everyone!  Heck, we just may go to BC on that funky rail car to see the Rockies!
> 
> Thank You VIA rail!




You do get unlimited stopovers, but... does "comfort class" include sleeper cars on the train to BC?


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## EW

Meridian said:
			
		

> You do get unlimited stopovers, but... does "comfort class" include sleeper cars on the train to BC?



Negative on the sleeper car, but the seats are fairly wide, and they do recline with a foot rest.  Sleeper car would be preferred, but for $0, I'd suck it up 

Decent info at http://www.viarail.ca/classes/en_serv_clas_econ_toja.html


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## vonGarvin

Meridian said:
			
		

> You do get unlimited stopovers, but... does "comfort class" include sleeper cars on the train to BC?


I doubt it.  Hence my use of the vague term "funky", because after a few days, that's exactly how it would be: funky! (as in stinky!)  But, with unlimited stops, it would rock.  I can't wait to book tickets!


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## armyvern

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Of course how else would they scam over 600 dollars per way out of me and my family.Hell it's only part of the TCH (another discussion for another time)



Yeah, so was that bridge from PEI that I got to drive over constantly during my IR ... at 40.75 a pop.  

Good on Via!!


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## Redeye

Too bad most of my July is being spent in Gagetown at Charm School - now, if I could find someone to pick me up in Moncton that might be a good go to get there, see a bit of the countryside on the way (not that I haven't driven it a million times, but it'd be different.)


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## Jammer

Just for Laughs Fest in Montreal and then on to Quebec City for the 400th celebrations. Not a bad way to go before going on tour.


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## kratz

Last night we made our vacation plans cross-Canada, using the Via rail offer. Today we we not even at the train station 4minutes and had picked up our tickets.  The only cost was for parking. There was two other couples to pick up their tickets as well. 

The clerk mentioned the online registration and the toll free phones have been busy since the announcement. He said  that he had already confirmed 50 seats for people in person today. Doing the math, he said there are 300,000 available seats in July and nearly 5million eligible people who could make use of this offer.


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## a78jumper

Phoned Via today, and while I could get a one way seat 28 Jul Edmonton to Toronto, upgrading with me paying the difference to have even an upper berth bed was impossible, not due to unavailabilty, but I was frankly told they have no problem selling bed spaces at full price in summer, so why give away a portion of that for free.  Sitting up overnight in a coach seat for two nights, no thanks. I sat through nights on trains when I had no money or in Vancouver airport DND was too "thrifty" to pay for hotel rooms when svc air westbound left you repeatedly in the lurch  at 2300 en route to Vic after the last civy connector had flown off into the night towards the Island.  Not today, too old, pensioned off and earning too much money. Might work on shorter trips though. It would have been nostalgic to have taken the train east, the last time I did so from Edmonton was in 1965 when I was six. So Air Canada will get all my business in both directions on my trip to Toronto for the Aug long weekend. All aboard so long as you restrict yourself to "the back of the bus." . Sort of reminds me of John Lennon ca 1963, "Those of you in the cheap seats clap, those of you in the expensive ones just rattle your jewelry."


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## a78jumper

Meridian said:
			
		

> You do get unlimited stopovers, but... does "comfort class" include sleeper cars on the train to BC?



No,  see my previous post.


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## armyvern

a78jumper said:
			
		

> No,  see my previous post.



Read it. That sucks, but hey -- I can see where they are coming from.

As every "comfort class" seat on every train in the month of July is going to be filled with those travelling free or for 1/2 price (and you know there's a landslide of leave passes about to swamp the system for July / may as well stand the CF down for the month ...  ), the only money Via will be making that month, and the only way any other Canadian is going to manage to get a seat on a train is by forking out the dough for the sleeper berths.

Edited to add: well they'll be making money on the "food" ... 10 bucks for a plain ole ham sandwich etc <--- Via's food prices has always amazed me.

Speaking of every train being fully loaded with CF members and PSs ... I'm wondering if they'll realize that it'd be to their great financial benefit to designate every car as the "bar car".


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## a78jumper

Perhaps booking the berth at full fare and cancelling at the last minute and getting a refund would be in order................ ;D


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## armyvern

a78jumper said:
			
		

> Perhaps booking the berth at full fare and cancelling at the last minute and getting a refund would be in order................ ;D



Trying to keep the trains all in "The Family" are we?


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## a78jumper

Might free up a berth as a walk up at the last minute......I have seen this happen with Via 1 upgrades, they were flogging them for $25 on the spot at checkin because they were underbooked, last in cancellations etc. As for the Bar Car Vern, BYOB, just be discrete. Been there, done that when I was sitting up all night going to and returning from Kapuskasing  on CN (pre Via) in the 1970s when I visited my aunt and uncle at CFS Lowther. Bring your own ham sangies as well.....


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## a78jumper

a78jumper said:
			
		

> Phoned Via today, and while I could get a one way seat 28 Jul Edmonton to Toronto, upgrading with me paying the difference to have even an upper berth bed was impossible, not due to unavailabilty, but I was frankly told they have no problem selling bed spaces at full price in summer, so why give away a portion of that for free.  Sitting up overnight in a coach seat for two nights, no thanks. I sat through nights on trains when I had no money or in Vancouver airport DND was too "thrifty" to pay for hotel rooms when svc air westbound left you repeatedly in the lurch  at 2300 en route to Vic after the last civy connector had flown off into the night towards the Island.  Not today, too old, pensioned off and earning too much money. Might work on shorter trips or longer ones with stop overs though. It would have been nostalgic to have taken the train east, the last time I did so from Edmonton was in 1965 when I was six. So Air Canada will get all my business in both directions on my trip to Toronto for the Aug long weekend. All aboard so long as you restrict yourself to "the back of the bus." . Sort of reminds me of John Lennon ca 1963, "Those of you in the cheap seats clap, those of you in the expensive ones just rattle your jewelry."


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## armyvern

a78jumper said:
			
		

> ... Bring your own ham sangies as well.....



They'd be pretty rancid after a cross-country journey no??!!  :-X

As to the other ...  8) (I've travelled Via before).


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## AirCanuck

this is awesome.  I'm not driving anywhere in Ontario during July.  Maybe I'll do a cross country journey!


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## kratz

I predict that Via will be busy this afternoon with bookings, as the weekend starts. We plan on a backpack of food using a combination of ice packs and nonperishable foods. There is a 17hour lay over in Toronto and a 4hours lay over in Edmonton, so we have more than enough time to stock up for the 2-3 days on the train between stops. We have not seen the train prices for food like Vern mentioned, but we have seen airport and airline prices and anticpated that Via's onboard prices would cost far too much.

The same line of thought, "most comfort seats will be filled in July, might as well close the military down for the month" crossed my mind as well.  I like the idea of every car being designated as the "bar car".   ;D


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## X-mo-1979

kratz said:
			
		

> The same line of thought, "most comfort seats will be filled in July, might as well close the military down for the month" crossed my mind as well.  I like the idea of every car being designated as the "bar car".   ;D



I'll have my euro pass all of July,Copenhagen is a lot nicer this that time of year than Sudbury anyway!


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## a78jumper

kratz said:
			
		

> I predict that Via will be busy this afternoon with bookings, as the weekend starts. We plan on a backpack of food using a combination of ice packs and nonperishable foods. There is a 17hour lay over in Toronto and a 4hours lay over in Edmonton, so we have more than enough time to stock up for the 2-3 days on the train between stops. We have not seen the train prices for food like Vern mentioned, but we have seen airport and airline prices and anticpated that Via's onboard prices would cost far too much.
> 
> The same line of thought, "most comfort seats will be filled in July, might as well close the military down for the month" crossed my mind as well.  I like the idea of every car being designated as the "bar car".   ;D



Your closest grocery store to Union Station in TO is the Loblaws on Queen's Quay , just east of the Toronto Star Building and the LCBO. If you stock up there last minute it would be about a $6 or $7 cab back to the Station.


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## AirCanuck

plus there's plenty of little places to grab food all around Union station


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## danchapps

There is a Rabba on Front a couple of blocks East of Union. I think it's a closer trip by foot than the Lawblaws. However, if time isn't an issue, there are more economical places to go I'm sure.


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## Scorch

Definitely gonna jump on this, just need to find out my leave period in July. Woot!  free trip to Edmonton from Halifax !!   8)


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## AirCanuck

won't that take a hell of a long time?


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## Fishbone Jones

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> won't that take a hell of a long time?



Better part of three (24 hr) days straight from Toronto to Edmonton, IIRC.


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## GUNS

Scorch said:
			
		

> Definitely gonna jump on this, just need to find out my leave period in July. Woot!  *free trip to Edmonton from Halifax * !!   8)



You must not mind sleeping in a seat for three nights.  My one and only train trip was from Halifax to Shilo.


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## Sub_Guy

The last big trip I took by train was from Halifax to Ottawa, my GF and I sat in "Comfort Class" on the way up.  We damn near killed each other, not comfortable at all, combine that with (me) no sleep and her(no problem sleeping) drooling all over me, it was an unpleasant trip.   

The first thing I did when we arrived home at her parents place was upgrade to a double bedroom, the trip back was much more relaxing and enjoyable. 
I will only ride comfort class for a few hours, anything longer and you need a berth or a bedroom.  We still damn near killed each other, but this time it was different  

I wish VIA would offer Military personnel a chance to upgrade to a bedroom, I would love to take my family over the Rockies, there is no way 3 kids are going to sit still for 23 hours from Vancouver to Edmonton in "Comfort Class"


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## lone bugler

I like long trips on trains but in comfort class it's probably not a good idea, still it's free so you definetly can't complain. Great idea on VIA Rail's part  and it's good to see private corporations appreciating what the troops do


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## Sub_Guy

No complaining, and I would not expect VIA to offer up the sleepers for free as all that would do is drive them further under!  

Now if only Air Canada/WestJet/BC FERRIES would get onboard....


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## GUNS

Question:

What proof of service does VIA Rail require for free travel for veterans?


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## Fishbone Jones

GUNS said:
			
		

> Question:
> 
> What proof of service does VIA Rail require for free travel for veterans?



Post #7 on the first page of the thread


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## EW

VIA has made a few changes to the 'conditions' noted in post #7.

They have amended their conditions to spell out what ID they would accept.  For retired military, they now specify a 'Record of Service Card' NDI75, or a VAC card; and they noted that Club XTRa holders who are RCMP or with the Corps of Commissionaires are not eligible.  Until they zeroed in on the NDI75, they must have been fielding a lot of calls from retired military.  It would be interesting to see if the poor fellow at NDHQ who handles the NDI75 submissions has been having a busier spring than usual.

The new conditions, on VIA's web site, specify;

"...Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is in possession of either a valid DND photo identification card, Canadian Military Record of Service card (ND175), any Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC) benefit card, Dependent ID card, or Canex "Club XTra" card. Note that offer is not open to Canex Club XTra card holders who are members of the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires, nor to members of the RCMP....."


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## the 48th regulator

Record of Service card 

If you are honourably releasing after 10 or more years of CF service and are entitled to an immediate annuity, you will now receive an NDI 75 ROS card at the time of your release.

As a retired member, you can use the plasticized card as a record of service and as a means of identification. It’s a continuing link between you and the organization, and can be used to access DND/CF recreational facilities IAW local procedures.

If you elect retirement leave, you remain a CF member until that leave expires. For this period of retirement leave you will be issued a temporary ID card (NDI 10) that will expire when your retirement leave expires. By that time, you will have received your permanent ROS card.

If you do not elect retirement leave, you cease to be a CF member the day of your release. During your final release interview, you will turn in your CF ID card and receive a temporary ROS card, which will include your surname, given name, rank and length of service, a photo from your personal file, and an expiry date six months after your release date. The temporary ROS card will be plasticized by your Release Cell. You must destroy this card when you receive your permanent ROS card.

You may direct questions about the ROS card—temporary and permanent—to Maj Wendy Barlow (DMCARM 4 Rel & Pension) at (613) 992-1198.


http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/4_04/4_04_ready-for-release_e.asp#post

The one link I found

dileas

tess


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## GUNS

What options are available for veterans with less than 10 years of service?


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## Fishbone Jones

None that I can see, unless you have a VA pension (and card).


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## MG34

July huh..too bad a great many members will be either undergoing training or conducting training I for one will be watching Reserve Capts and Majs stumble around the CFB Petawawa training area trying to conduct Dismounted Cbt Tm attacks.


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## blacktriangle

It looks like I'll have to be on tasking in July if I want to complete my CT without redoing basic. Ahhh the voyage I could have undertaken...    :-\


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## eugenetswong

I hope to take the train during the weekends, since I'll be on course in Borden in July. I suspect that the seats are all reserved already. That's okay. It's a good chance for other people to sample the trains. I'm already a satisfied customer.

I took the train across the country twice. The last half of the last trip was a 6 day, 5 night ride from Halifax to Vancouver. I'm actually surprised at how clean I felt during the ride, despite having no shower. I enjoyed Comfort Class more than the sleepers, because I felt that the views were better from my seat. I could look out in 2 directions, whereas in the sleepers, I could only look out 1 window.

The most comfortable seats, by far, are the Comfort Class seats on board the Canadian.

Maybe I'm a glutten for punishment.

Does anybody know how easy it is to get the weekend off at Borden for the QL3 supply tech course? Is there a way to get to and from Toronto?


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## battleaxe

A recent letter written in to the Editor of the Chronicle Herald highlighted another unfortunate limitation to this offer. It was from an elderly veteran who was very excited about the chance at a free trip-until he found out he couldn't upgrade to sleeper class.  Many of our veterans-especially our more elderly veterans-are not physically able to sit overnight in a chair and so are finding that they can't take advantage of this tribute.

While I understand that we should appreciate VIA's offer and the thought behind it, I still find this particular circumstance a little sad.

Bren


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## vonGarvin

Oh Good Lord.  VIA offers free rail travel.  This will cost them MILLIONS in lost revenue.  Now we are looking this gift horse in the mouth?


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## Jammer

You can please some of the people some of the time.........


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## Monsoon

Jammer said:
			
		

> You can please some of the people some of the time...



...but you can't please old people ever.


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## Springroll

battleaxe said:
			
		

> It was from an elderly veteran who was very excited about the chance at a free trip-until he found out he couldn't upgrade to sleeper class.



That is exactly the reason why my children and I will not be taking part in this "adventure".
When I heard it was free for me, and kids travel with with a paying adult, I jumped at the chance to take the train from Van to Edmonton. It was going to cost just under $700 for the 3 kids and I to go...great deal and a lifetime of memories. When I asked if I could upgrade to a sleeper, since I would like to be able to enjoy some privacy(and a bit of a break!) with my kids, I was told that the offer was only for comfort class and could not be upgraded. I would then have to pay full price... $1100/adult!! 

At that price, I'll just load up the van and drive with the kids...they'll enjoy a good road trip just as much.

It is really unfortunate that they will not even consider the upgrade for our elderly veterans, though. 
If anyone should be taking advantage of this, it should be them!


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## Jammer

I'm sure there are far more folks out there who are appreciative of this fantastic offer.
I suppose it depends on what your intended travel plans are. Bravo to VIA!!!


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## vonGarvin

Springroll said:
			
		

> It is really unfortunate that they will not even consider the upgrade for our elderly veterans, though.


Do you know what's REALLY unfortunate?  You're total lack of gratitude.  VIA, without pressure, and without anyone asking, offer free comfort class rides, unlimited, I might add, and then people come forward and complain that it's not enough.
If I were head of VIA, I would apologise, and agree that the offer wasn't enough.  Then I would state that since I cannot go bankrupt over this, the offer is rescinded.
I looked at a long ride, realised that it wasn't for me, and decided that a small ride from Moncton to Halifax was in order.  I would be grateful if VIA just gave us one day in which to take part in this offer, but they offer AN ENTIRE MONTH!  UNLIMITED!
My personal opinion is to say "for shame" to all those out there saying that this doens't go far enough.  I simply bow my head and say "thank you" to VIA.

EDIT: As I recall, you have yet to have the privilege and honour to serve our nation beyond its shores.  I have.  So have many others.  It is for this reason and the current war that they, out of the goodness of their hearts, they offer this.  But it is extended to those who have yet to serve.  Were I you, I would simply say "thank you" and carry on.  Heck, take a small ride.  If your kids are like mine, they would LOVE to go on even a small ride, for an hour or so.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Do you know what's REALLY unfortunate?  You're total lack of gratitude.  VIA, without pressure, and without anyone asking, offer free comfort class rides, unlimited, I might add, and then people come forward and complain that it's not enough.
> If I were head of VIA, I would apologise, and agree that the offer wasn't enough.  Then I would state that since I cannot go bankrupt over this, the offer is rescinded.
> I looked at a long ride, realised that it wasn't for me, and decided that a small ride from Moncton to Halifax was in order.  I would be grateful if VIA just gave us one day in which to take part in this offer, but they offer AN ENTIRE MONTH!  UNLIMITED!
> My personal opinion is to say "for shame" to all those out there saying that this doens't go far enough.  I simply bow my head and say "thank you" to VIA.
> 
> EDIT: As I recall, you have yet to have the privilege and honour to serve our nation beyond its shores.  I have.  So have many others.  It is for this reason and the current war that they, out of the goodness of their hearts, they offer this.  But it is extended to those who have yet to serve.  Were I you, I would simply say "thank you" and carry on.  Heck, take a small ride.  If your kids are like mine, they would LOVE to go on even a small ride, for an hour or so.



The best post of this thread.

My wife and I thought this was a phenomenal idea, and we would take advantage of it for just the same reason.  We would take the children on a nice short trip, so they would have an adventure.

I will then follow up with a thank you letter to VIA.

As much as it is a shame that this may be a disadvantage for some older Vets, I find it discusting that people will always look at the glass as being half empty.

dileas

tess


----------



## eugenetswong

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> The best post of this thread.



I agree with both of you, in that we should be more greatful. It's free! Nobody has a right to complain.

Via is like the CF, in that it has a tight budget.


----------



## Armymedic

I phoned VIA last weekend to book reservations for my family trip out west. I figured even in Comfort Class, my wife and kids would endure the overnight in seats for the chance to take a train adventure.

Unfortunately, the route I need to take is already booked for the whole month of July. (which sucks)

But in realizing that I coulded get the discouted seats, I thanked the booking agent for the offer and told them that I will definately book take the same trip at regular fair in the future.

Then we had a great conversation about where I have been and how long I have served. At the end of our talk, it was he thanking me.....

Screw Air Canada, I'm going to default to the train for my leave travels from now on.


----------



## battleaxe

In defence of Springroll (whom I hope I don’t heap more ‘ungrateful’ talk upon with this post), I’ll say that I experienced the same disappointment as she did when I found out I wouldn’t be able to take advantage of this offer (I have kids and I choose to not have them travel overnight in coach seats because I know they will never sleep).
   
I basically said, “Well, that sucks” and then, like her, I got over it and made plans to get where I’m going using other means (and I'm still taking the train-no bad feelings!).

Expressing such disappointment is no more offensive, I feel, than expressing disappointment (which many did in previous posts) that one cannot take advantage of the offer because of training or work commitments.  No different, really-just the expression that there are circumstances that are unfortunately preventing people from taking advantage of the great offer.

The main point I focused on in her post is that it is a shame that many our elderly veterans are having difficulties with this program. 
Obviously I agree-I do feel that our elderly veterans and their families, many of whom live on fixed incomes and pensions, would probably receive the greatest benefit from this deal.

That in itself is another form of gratitude, I would say.

Please don’t be so quick to jump and judge.

Bren


----------



## the 48th regulator

battleaxe said:
			
		

> In defence of Springroll (whom I hope I don’t heap more ‘ungrateful’ talk upon with this post), I’ll say that I experienced the same disappointment as she did when I found out I wouldn’t be able to take advantage of this offer (I have kids and I choose to not have them travel overnight in coach seats because I know they will never sleep).
> 
> I basically said, “Well, that sucks” and then, like her, I got over it and made plans to get where I’m going using other means (and I'm still taking the train-no bad feelings!).
> 
> Expressing such disappointment is no more offensive, I feel, than expressing disappointment (which many did in previous posts) that one cannot take advantage of the offer because of training or work commitments.  No different, really-just the expression that there are circumstances that are unfortunately preventing people from taking advantage of the great offer.
> 
> The main point I focused on in her post is that it is a shame that many our elderly veterans are having difficulties with this program.
> Obviously I agree-I do feel that our elderly veterans and their families, many of whom live on fixed incomes and pensions, would probably receive the greatest benefit from this deal.
> 
> That in itself is another form of gratitude, I would say.
> 
> Please don’t be so quick to jump and judge.
> 
> Bren



Then contact a vet, like the one who wrote the editor, and offer to cover the fare.  This can be your show of gratitude, as opposed to whining about it here.

You are not going to take advantage of the gesture, then use the money you would have spent paying for you childrens' fares.

dileas

tess


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I agree with everything here in these posts that say "BZ" to Via Rail.  I do NOT agree with the opinion that a vet of say WWII who is not physcially able to go in Comfort Class overnight who can not upgrade to the Sleeper class at their own cost (if I read it correctly).  You are talking about a bunch of lads who, in the case of WW II, who did not have the luxury of 6 month tours with mandated time-offs between tours, no phone or internet contact with their families, nor the use of the excellent kit we have now.

I for one think if anyone thinks that a vet of this type/kind doesn't deserve some consideration for a simple upgrade to accommodate their age and physical stature, please go to your local Legion, look him in the eye and explain your position and reasoning.

For those of us who have never fought on foreign soils, I agree whole heartedly;  what we do is important but not the same sacrifice as these gents made.  Take the offer, or don't take it, but be thankful it was offered and stop whining about how imperfect it is.  I myself thoroughly enjoy the coffee a few people have bought and handed me as I waited in a line up at Tims', even though it wasn't what I normally order.

My 2 cents, and not intended to start a pissing contest with those of a contrary opinion.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I agree with everything here in these posts that say "BZ" to Via Rail.  I do NOT agree with the opinion that a vet of say WWII who is not physcially able to go in Comfort Class overnight who can not upgrade to the Sleeper class at their own cost (if I read it correctly).  You are talking about a bunch of lads who, in the case of WW II, who did not have the luxury of 6 month tours with mandated time-offs between tours, no phone or internet contact with their families, nor the use of the excellent kit we have now.
> 
> I for one think if anyone thinks that a vet of this type/kind doesn't deserve some consideration for a simple upgrade to accommodate their age and physical stature, please go to your local Legion, look him in the eye and explain your position and reasoning.




I for one am not opposing your statement here, what disgusts me however is how some people have decided to use this reason to defend their selfish wants and deride the gift that VIA has offered.

Totally disgusting in my opinion, hence the posts directed towards them.  They can walk into the same legion and offer to cover the fare of an older Vet, if they find it so unfair.  In fact take advantage of the free fair and take a ride on a train and visit a distant legion.

dileas

tess


----------



## battleaxe

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Then contact a vet, like the one who wrote the editor, and offer to cover the fare.  This can be your show of gratitude, as opposed to whining about it here.
> 
> You are not going to take advantage of the gesture, then use the money you would have spent paying for you childrens' fares.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Who is whining?  You think this is whining?:


			
				battleaxe said:
			
		

> I basically said, “Well, that sucks” and then, like her, I got over it and made plans to get where I’m going using other means (and I'm still taking the train-no bad feelings!).



I'm paying full fare for both myself and my children-we are still travelling by train. I am simply not taking advantage of what I have acknowledged is a wonderful gesture because I know my kids... and choose to not travel coach. I never asked for an upgrade to sleeper-nor did I ever expect one.

I do, however, agree with this:



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I for one think if anyone thinks that a vet of this type/kind doesn't deserve some consideration for a simple upgrade to accommodate their age and physical stature, please go to your local Legion, look him in the eye and explain your position and reasoning.



...which I why I brought the subject up in the first place.

Bren


----------



## Sub_Guy

I would feel somewhat guilty riding for free because I am in the military.  I make more money than some families who can't afford to travel at all and here is VIA giving me a free trip just because I wear the uniform?

I think its an amazing offer, its nice to see a Canadian company step up and offer something of this magnitude for our retired and serving members. Like everything though,you can't please everyone, but I hope those who take advantage of this offer enjoy their vacations, traveling by train is a great way to travel (especially if its free).


----------



## the 48th regulator

battleaxe said:
			
		

> Who is whining?  You think this is whining?:



You be the judge….



			
				battleaxe said:
			
		

> In defence of Springroll (whom I hope I don’t heap more ‘ungrateful’ talk upon with this post), I’ll say that I experienced the same disappointment as she did when I found out I wouldn’t be able to take advantage of this offer (I have kids and I choose to not have them travel overnight in coach seats because I know they will never sleep).
> 
> 
> I basically said, “Well, that sucks” and then, like her, I got over it and made plans to get where I’m going using other means (and I'm still taking the train-no bad feelings!).





			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> That is exactly the reason why my children and I will not be taking part in this "adventure".
> When I heard it was free for me, and kids travel with with a paying adult, I jumped at the chance to take the train from Van to Edmonton. It was going to cost just under $700 for the 3 kids and I to go...great deal and a lifetime of memories. When I asked if I could upgrade to a sleeper, since I would like to be able to enjoy some privacy(and a bit of a break!) with my kids, I was told that the offer was only for comfort class and could not be upgraded. I would then have to pay full price... $1100/adult!!
> 
> At that price, I'll just load up the van and drive with the kids...they'll enjoy a good road trip just as much.
> 
> It is really unfortunate that they will not even consider the upgrade for our elderly veterans, though.
> If anyone should be taking advantage of this, it should be them!



Purely selfish reason, don’t hide behind the “Older Veteran” excuse, both of you were disappointed for your own selves.



			
				battleaxe said:
			
		

> I do, however, agree with this:





			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I for one think if anyone thinks that a vet of this type/kind doesn't deserve some consideration for a simple upgrade to accommodate their age and physical stature, please go to your local Legion, look him in the eye and explain your position and reasoning.



Do you now?  Well if you agree with the statement, then, rather than doing this;



			
				battleaxe said:
			
		

> I'm paying full fare for both myself and my children-we are still travelling by train. I am simply not taking advantage of what I have acknowledged is a wonderful gesture because I know my kids... and choose to not travel coach. I never asked for an upgrade to sleeper-nor did I ever expect one.



Do this;



			
				the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Then contact a vet, like the one who wrote the editor, and offer to cover the fare.  This can be your show of gratitude, as opposed to whining about it here.
> 
> You are not going to take advantage of the gesture, then use the money you would have spent paying for you childrens' fares.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess






			
				battleaxe said:
			
		

> ...which I why I brought the subject up in the first place.
> 
> Bren




Right, sure it was.  Let me guess once again we have all misinterpreted your post…..

Dileas

Tess


----------



## Eye In The Sky

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I for one am not opposing your statement here, what disgusts me however is how some people have decided to use this reason to defend their selfish wants and deride the gift that VIA has offered.
> 
> Totally disgusting in my opinion, hence the posts directed towards them.  They can walk into the same legion and offer to cover the fare of an older Vet, if they find it so unfair.  In fact take advantage of the free fair and take a ride on a train and visit a distant legion.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Agree 100%.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I think it is also important to point out that our vets are not, never have been, only the older gents from WWII.  Korea, UN and NATO operations have seen many young men and women qualify for what I deem a veteran.  FWIW, I have 19 years in, but have never fired a shot in anger so to speak.  I do not have a Vet license plate on my car either.

I am alittle confused though...I certainly appreciate the Tims' people buy for me, the VIA rail offer...its companies, people of our great country doing what they can to say thanks, to ALL members of the CF.  The clerk at the Reserve unit in B-F Nowhere's still plays a part in the Forces, and this is a kind gesture on VIA Rails' behalf to all of us in uniform.

I for one can see nothing but good in this.  I remember my father telling me stories about never having to pay for a cup of coffee anywhere's when he was in the old RCAF and in uniform travelling.  Our country and citizens, atleast most or some of whatever amount of them, are saying 'thank you for what you do!'.  I think we all know the best reply to that...a heartfelt thank you.


----------



## battleaxe

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> You be the judge….
> 
> Purely selfish reason, don’t hide behind the “Older Veteran” excuse, both of you were disappointed for your own selves.
> 
> Right, sure it was.  Let me guess once again we have all misinterpreted your post…..
> 
> Dileas
> 
> Tess



You apparently are the judge...

and you completely (conveniently) missed mentioning my first post:

"A recent letter written in to the Editor of the Chronicle Herald highlighted another unfortunate limitation to this offer. It was from an elderly veteran who was very excited about the chance at a free trip-until he found out he couldn't upgrade to sleeper class.  Many of our veterans-especially our more elderly veterans-are not physically able to sit overnight in a chair and so are finding that they can't take advantage of this tribute.

While I understand that we should appreciate VIA's offer and the thought behind it, I still find this particular circumstance a little sad.

Bren"

I offered this for information purposes, for what it's worth.

You can choose to make your own assumptions, or give people the benefit of the doubt and accept their intentions for what they say they are.

You've obviously made your choice, and there's not much I can do about that.

Bren


----------



## the 48th regulator

I made my choice, based on your posts.

If you had posted your first one and left it at that, sure I might believe your honourable intentions.

You blew that all away with your follow up posts.

Try as you might to get the last post in, you words have shown your true objective....

dileas

tess


----------



## Fishbone Jones

:argument:

Perhaps now that both sides have had their say, we can let it go and move on?

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Stoker

I think its great that VIA has offered this to the military, hopefully this is an indication of a change of how big business and society in Canada treats its military members. It doesn't matter if VIA even offered free upgrades, some people will always complain no matter what is offered. Now if the Canex offered Tax free sales, things would be great ;D


----------



## vonGarvin

Stoker said:
			
		

> I think its great that VIA has offered this to the military, hopefully this is an indication of a change of how big business and society in Canada treats its military members. It doesn't matter if VIA even offered free upgrades, some people will always complain no matter what is offered. *Now if the Canex offered Tax free sales, things would be great* ;D


Amen!  
(Actually, I am a bit humbled when offered anything for being military.  I didn't join for free train rides, but I am overwhelmed by the very offer.)


----------



## vonGarvin

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> For those of us who have never fought on foreign soils, I agree whole heartedly;  what we do is important but not the same sacrifice as these gents made. Take the offer, or don't take it, but be thankful it was offered and stop whining about how imperfect it is.  I myself thoroughly enjoy the coffee a few people have bought and handed me as I waited in a line up at Tims', even though it wasn't what I normally order.


I agree (as another who has never been in combat).  I would disagree with the statement about the sacrifice not being the same.  Yes, the sacrifices are unique, but for 80+ Canadians, their sacrifice was ultimate.  And many more bear other scars.  Not the same, yes, agree, but I wouldn't see that the sacrifices are any less.  Just a point.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> I agree (as another who has never been in combat).  I would disagree with the statement about the sacrifice not being the same.  Yes, the sacrifices are unique, but for 80+ Canadians, their sacrifice was ultimate.  And many more bear other scars.  Not the same, yes, agree, but I wouldn't see that the sacrifices are any less.  Just a point.



A good point, and a lesson to ensure my words are clear.


----------



## Stoker

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Amen!
> (Actually, I am a bit humbled when offered anything for being military.  I didn't join for free train rides, but I am overwhelmed by the very offer.)



In my duties, I get to travel to the US many times and its unbelieveable how the military there gets treated.  When was the last time you were waiting in line at a musem or restaurant and got taken out of the line and placed at the front in Canada? In New York city, if you are in uniform, you litterally don't pay for a beer at a bar. Now I don't expect to be treated that way, no one owes me anything, but a gesture every now and again is nice.


----------



## eugenetswong

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Then we had a great conversation about where I have been and how long I have served. At the end of our talk, it was he thanking me.....
> 
> Screw Air Canada, I'm going to default to the train for my leave travels from now on.



Thank you for sharing with us your experiences. I've always wondered how these promotions get people into a new habit of doing things.

It seems that it is a good opportunity to interact with a company that we don't usually interact with, and by time the interaction is over, it is a simple step to make use of the services and products.

I always thought that it was about sampling. We could sample a product and/or service, and then make technical evaluations. After that, if we were convinced and weren't opposed to change, then we could go at it. I guess that I was wrong for most situations.

I hope that Via is well aware of the way that courses are often run in the summer, so that the military and Via can coordinate on things. I don't expect that everybody would want to take the train out from Vancouver to Borden, but at least there should be an option, and military folks should be allowed to use the train for shorter trips.


----------



## eugenetswong

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I for one think if anyone thinks that a vet of this type/kind doesn't deserve some consideration for a simple upgrade to accommodate their age and physical stature, please go to your local Legion, look him in the eye and explain your position and reasoning.



Why should I? Should I also look him in the eye and then tell him that he doesn't deserve free clothes from The Bay? Should I tell him that he doesn't derserve free food from Superstore? Should I tell him that he is old? What I should tell him that is true?

Just because it's true, doesn't mean that it is okay to say to his face.

They fought for our freedom, and "unfortunately", that means that we have the freedom to set our own prices. Period. That's means people can't complain about prices. It's a cold world. What would the point be of fighting to liberate us from 1 enemy, only to come back and dictate to us our prices?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

What the fuck are you talking about?  Maybe you should 1) haul your head out of you ass 2) re-read my post and 3) think before you type.


----------



## armyvern

eugenetswong said:
			
		

> Why should I? Should I also look him in the eye and then tell him that he doesn't deserve free clothes from The Bay? Should I tell him that he doesn't derserve free food from Superstore? Should I tell him that he is old? What I should tell him that is true?
> 
> Just because it's true, doesn't mean that it is okay to say to his face.
> 
> They fought for our freedom, and "unfortunately", that means that we have the freedom to set our own prices. Period. That's means people can't complain about prices. It's a cold world. What would the point be of fighting to liberate us from 1 enemy, only to come back and dictate to us our prices?



You quite missed the whole concept of that post didn't you??

It simply sailed right over your head.

_Vern  --- shakes head in amazement at some people these days ..._

 :brickwall:

Holy fuck over -- I say again ---

"Why should I?" Because, quite simply, it's the _respectful_ thing to do. Get some.


----------



## eugenetswong

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> What the frig are you talking about?  Maybe you should 1) haul your head out of you *** 2) re-read my post and 3) think before you type.



The thing is that if you insist on these older vets getting free rides in sleeper class, then you're really arguing about prices. As it is right now, they can still take sleeper class, but they just can't do it for free. That's all.

Why should I go into a Legion and then tell them that they don't deserve free rides in sleeper class?

They don't deserve to go into a grocery store, and then get free groceries. I don't owe them an explanation for that. If I don't owe them an explanation for that, then why should I owe them an explanation for no free sleeper class?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I agree with everything here in these posts that say "BZ" to Via Rail.  I do NOT agree with the opinion that a vet of say WWII who is not physcially able to go in Comfort Class overnight who can not upgrade to the Sleeper class *at their own cost * (if I read it correctly).  You are talking about a bunch of lads who, in the case of WW II, who did not have the luxury of 6 month tours with mandated time-offs between tours, no phone or internet contact with their families, nor the use of the excellent kit we have now.
> 
> I for one think if anyone thinks that a vet of this type/kind doesn't deserve some consideration for a simple upgrade to accommodate their age and physical stature, please go to your local Legion, look him in the eye and explain your position and reasoning.
> 
> For those of us who have never fought on foreign soils, I agree whole heartedly;  what we do is important but not the same sacrifice as these gents made.  Take the offer, or don't take it, but be thankful it was offered and stop whining about how imperfect it is.  I myself thoroughly enjoy the coffee a few people have bought and handed me as I waited in a line up at Tims', even though it wasn't what I normally order.
> 
> My 2 cents, and not intended to start a pissing contest with those of a contrary opinion.



Now, if I save you the trouble and quote my own post, underline the applicable sentence and bold the key words...are you ****** capable of reading what I wrote, in the context I wrote it and not start babbling about ****** groceries and other stupid irrelevant topics??

SQ qualified eh?  I encourage you to approach your RSM and explain your overwhelming respect for the folks who have served and actually had their meat on the line, young and old, male and female, to make your home province of BC safe enough that you can enjoy the freedom to post your jibberish on Army.ca on a Saturday evening.  I would actually encourage you to go down to a Legion some night, and talk to some of these outstanding Canadians and see if your opinion might not change then. 

If it didn't, I can tell you you would not want to be in any unit with me.


----------



## eugenetswong

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Now, if I save you the trouble and quote my own post, underline the applicable sentence and bold the key words...are you ****** capable of reading what I wrote, in the context I wrote it and not start babbling about ****** groceries and other stupid irrelevant topics??



I will say that I am partially sorry, because even when I reread the sentence, I still misread the context. However, I still think that it is up to Via Rail to choose what to do here. They have their own costs and promotions and what have you. However, I still stand by what I said.

When I read about how vets derserve this and that, I get the impression that we owe it to them. I get the impression that people are saying that companies are obligated to give back that benefit to the vets. Granted, it is a very kind gesture to give these gifts, and we should show our appreciation. However, from everybody's tone of voice, I don't think that we are talking about gifts. We are talking about what the vets have rightfully earned.

That's why I think that groceries and other products are very applicable here.

Also, my point was that we shouldn't have to look people in the eye and tell them that they don't deserve this or that, because it's bad etiquette to always say certain things. You don't have to lie or sugar coat things. You just focus on the positives, and don't bring up the negatives. Do you need to tell a fat stranger that she is fat, if she never asks? If she is fat, then it would be a true statement. Why would she want to hear the facts from you?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

:brickwall:

I give up...


----------



## ENGINEERS WIFE

I think it is really great of VIA to offer free travel for the military for the month of July.  Which is probably their high season!  And I can understand why sitting up for days on end might not be everyone's cup of tea. And for some it is physically not possible.  Why can't you travel for the day, get off stay in a hotel, and then get back on the next day (or whenever you want to) and then travel to the next town.  Or someone like myself, that does NOT want to travel by train across the country, but wouldn't mind taking a short trip.  But I may not ever take them up on their offer, but I still appreciate the offer.
I think it is great way for them to say thank you and if you are unable to, for whatever reason, it still doesn't take away from the generous offer.  
I work retail everyday, some are very grateful when they get a deal and some are never satisfied.
You cannot please all of the people all of the time!
THANK YOU VIA!!!!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Boy, some people just don't get it.

As always, if you have something plausible and pertinent to add or discuss, contact a Mod, for posting. Take your personal bitches to PM and leave the majority out of your personal biases.

Locked.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## JustAnotherZoomie

Fair dealings, Copyright act and all that stuff.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1056878.html

Via Rail military freebies no sacrifice
Offer seen as slow-season tonic

OTTAWA — Via Rail’s offer of free train tickets for Canada’s military during the month of July was partly a business decision to help boost revenues during a slow travel period, an internal document suggests.

The offer, announced with fanfare at the Halifax railway station on March 26, was publicly touted as a way for the Crown corporation to express its gratitude to military personnel.

"We just wanted, simply, to say thank you . . . for everything they’re doing for us," Via’s chairman Donald Wright told a news conference attended by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

‘But an internal planning document, obtained by The Canadian Press, suggests there was more than altruism at play.

July is traditionally the slowest revenue month for Via Rail, as business travellers and students disappear, especially in central Canada, and as more tourists choose to travel in May, September and October.

"Historically, July has been Via Rail’s poorest month by passenger load in Via 1 (first class). That trend dates back to 1997," says the Dec. 11 proposal for the military freebie.

"In comfort (economy) class, July has traditionally been 20 per cent lower than August."

The offer to military personnel and veterans, and for civilian employees at National Defence, included a 50 per cent discount for family members travelling at the same time in the same economy class — a potential source of fresh revenue on otherwise half-empty trains.

In addition, as July trains filled up, more non-military passengers would be forced to travel in June or August, or would have to upgrade to seats in first-class or even sleeper cars.

"The additional revenue would be welcome," says the document. "If the offer is successful we could experience a surge in demand in July, which could spread our summer business over three months.

Additionally regular coach passengers may be encouraged into purchasing upgrades . . . and there should be a noticeable increase in on board revenues."

The proposal concluded: "Overall the downside of this offer is very low. It will generate trial (business), and new business. The upside, particularly in media exposure and in goodwill, could be massive."

A spokeswoman for Via Rail said the offer was never designed as anything more than a thank you to the military.

"This appreciation fare is not about revenues, it’s not about statistics," Catherine Kaloutsky said in an interview.

"What it’s about is saying thank you. It was about finding a simple way to show appreciation to those who have served our country and who are currently serving our country."

About 26,000 reservations have been made under the program so far, Kaloutsky said, though she could not indicate how many were freebies and how many were family discounts.

Via Rail’s Ocean (Halifax to Montreal) and Canadian (Vancouver to Toronto) trains are almost fully booked for July, but there are still seats in the central Canada corridor trains from Windsor, Ont., to Quebec City.

The Crown corporation has been struggling in recent years with poor on-time performance, cheap competing air fares in central Canada, and frequent equipment failures, especially in its geriatric F-40 locomotives. The high dollar has cut into its tourist business.

The federal government had to cover a $200-million operating deficit at the Crown corporation last year — or about $48 for every passenger.

Via Rail’s trains are, on average, only 55 per cent full and almost a quarter of them arrive late.

The money-losing corporation’s military freebie drew some criticism when it was announced.

"Since when is it Via’s mandate to expend funds to support DND employees?" said one e-mail respondent to a CBC online report.

"I hope the auditor general slams Via and everyone along the line who had a part in this decision."

Internal figures suggest the freebie is generating new revenues.

An analysis dated April 16, or three weeks after the offer was made, shows Via Rail booked about $370,000 in revenues for July under the Canadian Forces family appreciation fare, the half-price tickets for military family members travelling together.

An official estimated bookings for the eastern and western services were between three and five times higher than at the same point in 2007.

The Via Rail documents were obtained under the Access to Information Act.

The corporation carries about four million passengers each year, most of them in the busy Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto corridor.

Last October, the federal government announced $516 million in capital funding over the next five years, much of which will go to rebuild the F-40s from the ground up, giving them 15 to 20 more years’ of service.

’If the offer is successful we could experience a surge in demand in July, which could spread our summer business over three months. Additionally regular coach passengers may be encouraged into purchasing upgrades.’


----------



## geo

Ummm... does this make the offer any less interesting or appreceated?  NO!!!

Via could have decided to ignore the military and left the cars half empty OR offered deep discounts to students and others.

Thank you VIA RAIL for having given us this little tip of the hat... It is greatly appreceated.

To DEAN BEEBY The Canadian Press, with all due respect: blow it out your a$$


----------



## kratz

Fair dealings, Copyright act and all everthing. From TheChronicleHerald.ca today:





> *Families sniff at Via offer*
> Soldiers in Afghanistan miss out on deal for free rail travel
> By DEAN BEEBY The Canadian Press
> Sun. Jun 1 - 4:31 AM
> 
> OTTAWA — Via Rail’s offer of free travel for the military throughout July has triggered a backlash, as soldiers serving in Afghanistan that month miss out on the deal but civilians back home enjoy it.
> "Why has Via . . . chosen to exclude the thousands of Canadian Forces members who will not qualify for this offer?" Susan Killam, whose husband is posted to Afghanistan until September, recently wrote to government officials.
> "These members, currently serving in some of the world’s most dangerous conflicts, deserve the same opportunity. . . . These members are the very individuals which this offer should be honouring."
> On March 26, Via Rail announced with great fanfare that Canadian Forces members, veterans and civilians at National Defence can enjoy free rail travel throughout July. Under the deal, up to five family members can join them, at half price. Retired civilians also get free travel.
> "We just wanted, simply, to say thank you . . . for everything they’re doing for us," Via’s chairman Donald Wright said at a news conference.
> Killam, who lives in Hammonds Plains, says it’s unfair that civilian employees will be able to take advantage of the offer while her husband is stuck in a war zone.
> "I feel it devalues the gesture in that the work of those employees in no way equates to the hardships faced by the military members and their families," she wrote to Wright, Defence Minister Peter MacKay and others. "They do not face warfare."
> Killam and other families shared correspondence and related material on the issue with The Canadian Press.
> Dartmouth-based Margaret Crook, whose husband is also in the military, was similarly upset.
> "When this first came out, I was literally pained to read that civilians and their families were being thanked for work we (Canadian Forces) do," she said in an e-mail.
> Crook also wrote to government officials, including those at Via Rail who responded that National Defence insisted civilians be included in the freebie because "the support of civilian positions plays an integral part in the success of the missions."
> "The Via program was to thank those who sacrifice. To include civilians here is mind boggling. It only mocks that sacrifice," Crook wrote to the deputy minister at National Defence.
> Some of the dozens of people who posted comments about the offer on a CBC news website were equally skeptical.
> "This is a very nice idea but doesn’t do much for those spending July in Kandahar," said one.
> Several correspondents said the freebie should be considered a taxable benefit, although a spokeswoman for the Canada Revenue Agency said it is not under the Income Tax Act.
> A Canadian Forces pilot, who heads to Afghanistan next April, said he was unable to book a round trip because seats filled rapidly. A Via Rail spokesman says about 30,000 people have booked tickets under the offer, though he could not say how many were civilians and retirees.
> "I felt ripped off not being able to get a seat," said the Ottawa-based officer, who requested anonymity.
> He managed to book a one-way ticket, but only after struggling with a "stonewalling" Via Rail ticket agent. "They never stated there was limited availability."
> Via Rail has no plans to provide rain checks for military members stuck serving overseas in July, said spokesman Malcolm Andrews, and is not putting on any extra trains in July.
> "Like any promotion, it has conditions and one of those conditions is the applicable dates," he said in an interview from Montreal headquarters. "Everyone is treated equally."
> Andrews also said a "significant" number of civilians have served in Afghanistan, not just soldiers.
> The Canadian Press, citing internal documents, reported recently that Via Rail’s decision to offer the freebie was partly intended to boost revenues during a slow travel period.
> Via’s Vancouver-Toronto trains are full for July, and the Halifax-Montreal trains are almost full. Seats are still available in other regions.



Instead of the complaints and negative comments about the offer, I will be interested to hear about people's experience of this offer once it has started in July.


----------



## armyvern

> Andrews also said a "significant" number of civilians have served in Afghanistan, not just soldiers.



Wow.

I've got to state that I am flabbergasted by Ms. Crook's complaint.

Besides civilians working in Afghanistan, there are also *thousands* of civilians within DND who are doing their jobs each and every day to support our soldiers and this current mission.

These employees are buying kit, issuing kit, paying soldiers, looking after these soldiers in the BHosp, feeding them, teaching them ... and on and on and on.

Without them and their contribution to DND ... this mission (and any mission, any regular "in Canada" work day) would be entirely in the hurt locker.


----------



## geo

Let's faceit, wherever there is a sincere from the heart donation of something... there will be detractors...

That's life 

VIA rail made a generous offer that, in the end costs them little (the trains were running anyway) but provides some valuable tansportation to the Military - Current serving & former members PLUS the civilian personnel who support us.

Given that there will always (till 2011 anyway) be some 3000 personnel in theatre, not much can be done about those who are out there... but the 3000 who just came back OR those who are preparing to deploy DO have that oportunity.

Thank you VIA rail


----------



## Kat Stevens

Some people would bitch about a lottery win  : .  I don't get these people at all. Here's my take:  When I buy anything, car, dishwasher, stereo, whatever, if I think I got a good deal, and the salesman thinks he got a good deal, THEN IT'S A GOOD DEAL.  This is a good deal for us, a good deal for VIA, therefore, IT'S A GOOD DEAL.  Some people need a good swift smack in the head with a dead mackerel.


----------



## TrexLink

The sad reality is that you could cure air pollution in every province for a total of $5 and there would be_ somebody_ out there objecting. 

VIA did a nice thing. True, it is not going to reach everybody in the target audience, but it will be open to most of them.  

True, it's not top-of-the-line travel, but it's free. 

True, VIA hopes to make some money during a traditional slow period for them - is that wrong? They are giving away a lot and, besides, this country is based on making money.

The sad thing, as I see it, is that the acrimony, carping and winging about this giveaway not being perfect is probably going to stop VIA from ever running another one in the future.  VIA should be commended for their generous recognition of Canada's troops and veterans.


----------



## Armymedic

You know, I have yet to be home for a single one of those Ottawa Sens Military appreciation nights. You know the ones they give us free tickets. Am I disappointed I missed it? Yes. Am I bitter enough about it to complain to the press? No, and why would I be.

I was away when Via announced the offer. And by the time I got home, all the relevent routes for my family were sold out. Was I disappointed? Yes. Was I bitter enough to complain to the media? No, and why would I be?

But:

It took my wife and I a lot of rechecking for availability to get a set of 4 return fare tickets from Ottawa to the Maritimes for July. Finally, we got lucky last week and did.

Family of 4: Me (military) for free. My wife (DND employee) 50% and my kids (both under 11) for free. Cost- no more than $200. A lot less than it would have cost me to drive.


----------



## armyvern

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Family of 4: Me (military) for free. My wife (DND employee) 50% and my kids (both under 11) for free. Cost- no more than $200. A lot less than it would have cost me to drive.



And, I'm sure you'll enjoy the scenery both down & back -- as well as not having to remain with your butt firmly planted.

Glad to see that you managed to get yourselves booked and enjoy the benefits of this outstanding offer from Via.


----------



## Armymedic

Actually, rereading thru the offer web page, and with a quick call to Via, my wife (DND employee) can travel for free as well...so she can get a refund on her fare.

Oh, happy happy joy joy.  ;D

edit to add- the scoop is; because she was booked under my ID she has to pay her 50% fare. If she would have booked her own ticket (and 1 child) seperately from mine, she would have gotten the discount.


----------



## Strike

Just make sure you pick up your tickets within 5 days (maybe 7?).  Otherwise you will lose them.


----------



## Armymedic

Strike said:
			
		

> Just make sure you pick up your tickets within 5 days (maybe 7?).  Otherwise you will lose them.


We had 14 days to pick them up....and got them yesterday.


----------



## ENGINEERS WIFE

I learned that life can be disappointing, then I turned 6!! >  GET OVER IT!!!!!!! 
If you look up UNGRATEFUL in the dictionary, I think you might find a picture of Mrs. Killam.  :brickwall: 
We will be unable to use the VIA offer as we are being posted this summer, but we still appreciate the offer.  Or maybe I should alert the media, because somebody offered us something nice and it ISN"T convenient for me :brickwall:


----------



## EW

I hope VIA actually makes a bit of a profit on this, and it shuts up those asking for an Auditor General investigation.  If, in August, this all goes off with minimal complications, I hope the person/team at VIA who came up with this idea gets a bonus/promotion - especially if it actually helps generate some additional revenue for VIA - making it a total win/win for everyone.

To those that can't get a ticket at this date, I truly wish that VIA could have accommodated everyone, but given the true business and practical constraints they had to work with, they seem to be doing a great job.  Easy for me to say, my wife and I scored tickets from Ontario to Vancouver and return.  Only because we read the offer when it came out, realized the number of people it included (it stated civilian DND and CF upfront from the very first announcement), and read the on line conditions where it stated that there was no penalty for cancelling our tickets.  So that very first night we booked with VIA, before knowing if we could get vacation, or have someone look after the house - because we knew we could always go back and cancel it hassle free.

The offer was in most major papers within 24-48 hours of the announcement, their website was clear and concise.  I'm sure people missed the initial announcement, and I'm sorry for them, but it happens to everyone, it is NOT VIA's fault.    With no penalties for cancellations, I'm sure there will still be many, as people can't pull off their initial plans, I hope others follow SMMT's example and keep checking back for vacancies.

Like others, I did wish that VIA offered rain checks for those deployed in July (or on training).  It didn't happen.  It probably would have added a lot of complications and extra overhead - such is life.  I'm sure there would still be groups complaining that they couldn't take part.  If I was deployed, or the loved one of someone deployed, I'd have a lot more on my mind with someone in a war zone, than a train trip.

Thank you VIA for letting me see a great chunk of this country that represents the thousands of Canadians I've served with over the years.


----------



## X-mo-1979

Just some news from the rock.According to "open line" VOCM it is too late for Marine Atlantic to do the same.They plan on offering the same thing next summer.


----------



## Armymedic

> "Why has Via . . . chosen to exclude the thousands of Canadian Forces members who will not qualify for this offer?" Susan Killam, whose husband is posted to Afghanistan until September, recently wrote to government officials.
> "These members, currently serving in some of the world’s most dangerous conflicts, deserve the same opportunity. . . . These members are the very individuals which this offer should be honouring."
> ....
> Killam, who lives in Hammonds Plains, says it’s unfair that civilian employees will be able to take advantage of the offer while her husband is stuck in a war zone.
> "I feel it devalues the gesture in that the work of those employees in no way equates to the hardships faced by the military members and their families," she wrote to Wright, Defence Minister Peter MacKay and others. "They do not face warfare."
> Killam and other families shared correspondence and related material on the issue with The Canadian Press.


Mrs. Killam should quit her whining and look deeper into the offer. Even though her husband is overseas, she is still eligible for a free fare under the offer:

From the Via rail website:
_Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is in possession of either a valid DND photo identification card, Canadian Military Record of Service card (ND175), any Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC) benefit card, Communications Security Establishment Canada ID card, Dependent ID card, or *Canex "Club XTra" card*. Note: If a Dependent ID card or Canex "Club XTra" card is presented for complimentary travel, a maximum of one complimentary ticket per family per trip is allowed._
(emphasis mine)

as for her:


> Dartmouth-based Margaret Crook, whose husband is also in the military, was similarly upset.
> "When this first came out, I was literally pained to read that civilians and their families were being thanked for work we (Canadian Forces) do," she said in an e-mail.


Just plain petty, seeing as the Canadian Forces consist of both uniformed and civilian employees.


----------



## X-mo-1979

Unreal.

What ever happened to modest people?
What ever happened to quiet professionalism?


And Mrs.Killam...wow.

How about those guys going to REPLACE your husband?

Again....this is some of the reasons why I hate humanity.

And one reason I love my wife!Man can you imagine how embarrassing that would be if it was your S.O!


----------



## Nemo888

Sweet! Fare of 274.05. I pay zero. Free beers for everyone, lol


----------



## ENGINEERS WIFE

If perhaps, I was like Mrs. Killam, this would be where I would alert the media and complain that you have offered free beer, but, I don't like beer, and that your offer is inconvenient for me >  It does not fit with my schedule as I can't drink beer right now >  just kidding ;D

Free beer for EVERYONE?????.....me thinks it may cost a little more than $274.05, remember, you's be dealin' with bunchs of CF members and that's alot of EVERYONE!!!!!!

Thanks ;D


----------



## Bintheredunthat

That article is aggravating on so many levels:

1)  I'd hate to be "Insert Rank" Gillam overseas right now - shaking his head at the comments of his wife at home.  Talk about the worst razzing you'd get from your peers.

2)  The true ignorance towards civilian employees is downright outrageous.  I think it's commendable that DND wanted Civ pers included - they should be dammit.  Maybe I don't know enough about what's going on, but I sure see a lot of job postings for civilian employees doing jobs in the sandbox.  Sure the job of an Infanteer is dangerous, but no Infanteer wants to be on some pedestal over anyone else.

3)  A cowardly Air Force Pilot made a stupid remark to the media and then smartly asks to remain anonymous.  I surely hope this Air Force pilot is not one of the ones who makes more than 100K per year - complaining about his right to a 2-300 dollar train ticket.  Oh - and the best part was that it was not good enough that he could only get "one way" free and would have to pay for the other direction.  BLech!

We need more charities for Support Your Troops because obviously tax exemptions, military discounts, and charitable donations such as free christmas trees/Via Rail tickets just aren't cutting it for some of these families.

Sounds harsh, but I'm still of the mindset that we are currently given everything we need to take care of our own business.  I'm basically ashamed at some of the things I've read.  Shame on anyone complaining about the cookie jar being empty.

Bin


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## aesop081

And dont worry....the "we want more" crowd will ruin it for everyone....

 :


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## ladybugmabj

It's too bad that Mrs. Killam didn't look at the brighter side of things in regards to this promotion!!!  I booked and picked up my tickets last month. I, as a Base employee, travel for free, my son (7), free, I pay for my 12 year old 50% off, since dad can not come with. No, he's not in Kandahar, been there, done that, but rather, teaching the entire summer. It was only after I booked, paid for my tickets that we realized that his one week off for the summer, is part of the week that I come home from Halifax. Am I disappointed that my hubby couldnt' go with us to the east coast, yes, am I complaining that he can't go... no. I look at it as a way to spend, hopefully a relaxing vacation with my 2 boys, going somewhere none of us have been. 
How does that saying go??  You can please some people some of the time..... Life's too short to complain about the little things....  :-*


----------



## ENGINEERS WIFE

On June 1, 2008  I sent VIA RAIL CANADA this e-mail  and underneath is the response I got back this morning, I know it probably is a canned e-mail, but at least they know how I feel, Robin



To: <customer_relations@viarail.ca>
cc: 
Subject: Offer for CF members riding for free 


VIA RAIL CANADA
To all employees, as the wife of a Canadian soldier, who has served in Afghanistan, I would like to say thank you for the opportunity for allowing CF members, their families and DND employees to ride for free or at a reduced rate. I am totaly baffled that some CF family members would be complaining, only beacause it is not good for their schedule. 

I appreciate the offer, even though I will not taking you up on your offer, I think it is very nice of you. Maybe next time you should consult with every CF member to see what their schedule is, just kidding

Complaining when someone does something nice for you is the very definition of ungrateful, I am NOT that person, and I will say without doubt, that most families and members feel the same way I do!!!!!

My husband and my family have had to make sacrifices, but we do it willingly. I am VERY proud of all the other CF members and especially my husband. It is nice to get a "Thank You" for the job he does. 

Just again, I would like to send you a heartfelt THANK YOU, Robin Legere





Dear Mrs. Legere:

Thank you for your email, concerning VIA Rail Canada’s Canadian Forces Family Appreciation Fare. 

It is a pleasure to encounter an email such as yours, expressing satisfaction for our services. Customer feedback is a valued tool in our operation since it helps us in our continuing efforts to improve our services. We appreciate your comments regarding this promotion, which I have forwarded to the responsible officer for information. 

If you have any further questions regarding our special Canadian Forces Family Appreciation Fare, please do not hesitate to contact our Telephone Sales Office at the following toll free number: 1-888-842-7245.

Once again, thank you for letting us know of your satisfaction and for giving us the benefit of your observations. We look forward to your continuing support. 

Warm regards,


Geneviève Sarazin
Customer Relations


----------



## TrexLink

Good for you and good for them.  Hopefully they will listen more to well-reasoned letters such as yours than to the whine-grams from some others.


----------



## ladybugmabj

I was going to do that...but after my holiday!!!  Good for you, though..  ;D


----------



## tabernac

> Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is in possession of either a valid DND photo identification card, Dependent ID card, or Canex "Club XTra" card.



So here's my problem. I'm to be enrolled July 25, so I would qualify for this *amazing* thank you from VIA. I plan on taking VIA from Toronto out to my friend's place, 2 hours away, on the 27th. 

Would I even have a temp Mil ID to use? Or do I just suck it up, carry on, and pay the price for the ticket?

(I know I have yet to serve, and at the point at which I would be using this stellar offer, I would have "served"/been on LWOP for a grand total of 2 days....)


----------



## armyvern

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> So here's my problem. I'm to be enrolled July 25, so I would qualify for this *amazing* thank you from VIA. I plan on taking VIA from Toronto out to my friend's place, 2 hours away, on the 27th.
> 
> Would I even have a temp Mil ID to use? Or do I just suck it up, carry on, and pay the price for the ticket?
> 
> (I know I have yet to serve, and at the point at which I would be using this stellar offer, I would have "served"/been on LWOP for a grand total of 2 days....)



No, you won't have a temp ID at this point in time.

But, when I joined, I was presented with my signed certificate of enrollment after I had sworn my oath. I really don't see any reason that you still wouldn't be presented that after enrollment today.

Perhaps, give VIA a call and outline your circumstances - ask them if presentation of your Oath of Allegiance certificate would suffice upon picking up your tickets. Or, if your tickets would need to be picked up prior to your actual swearing in - ask them if an Official Letter from CFRC advising of your swearing in date as a member of the CF would suffice.

It won't hurt to phone them and ask; and, the worst thing they are going to do is say "no". You never know though, it may be a circumstance that they are able to deal with given enough notice and details should possible leeway exist within their published criterion for this promotional offer.

Good luck, regardless -- enjoy your travels. And, welcome to the CF!

And, please remember - that even if they say "no" -- give them a "Thanks" anyway for the great show of support they are giving us with this initiative. I'm sure they would appreciate that. Thanks is always nice, especially after you've had to say "no" to someone because of things outside your control that the rules don't allow you to change.


----------



## tabernac

Thank you very much, Vern!


----------



## EW

So, has anyone had the chance to take the trip yet, and report their observations.  We are taking "The Canadian" out to Vancouver and are interested in any hints.


----------



## ladybugmabj

I leave next Wednesday for Halifax. Hopefully the seats are more comfortable than they were, oh god, 18 years ago when I came back from Saskatoon to Woodstock, ON.....bring a pillow for sure....especially on that trip!! My boss here in Pet took the train last week to Truro and will be back on Monday...Have a fun trip...


----------



## Strike

I'm leaving next Friday from Kingston for Truro.  Really looking forward to it...so's my sister that I'm going to visit.


----------



## Harley Sailor

ladybugmabj said:
			
		

> I leave next Wednesday for Halifax. Hopefully the seats are more comfortable than they were, oh god, 18 years ago when I came back from Saskatoon to Woodstock, ON.....bring a pillow for sure....especially on that trip!! My boss here in Pet took the train last week to Truro and will be back on Monday...Have a fun trip...


I was on the train from Truro to Halifax last month for a school trip.  24 10 year olds and 6 of us adults.  The seats are by far better then they were 20 years ago.


----------



## TN2IC

Strike said:
			
		

> I'm leaving next Friday from Kingston for Truro.  Really looking forward to it...so's my sister that I'm going to visit.



Funny! I"m doing opposite of you at the sametime! May be we shall stop the train half way and meet up? Hahahaha...


----------



## AMANDA.190

im only 17 and i have been in the reveres for over a year and it says you have to be 18 does that mean i dont qualify?


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

would seem that way


----------



## AMANDA.190

thats kinda crappy


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

Well yes but that's the rules in place.  Maybe you could convince them if you went with a parent or guardian but if those are the rules in place you don't really have a leg to stand on.


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## AMANDA.190

well tech i am my own guardian so I'm screwed either way


----------



## Strike

Why not call them up and ask?  You never know.  They might allow you to take advantage of the offer.


----------



## retiredgrunt45

The misses and I are taking the offer and travelling to PEI to celebrate our 27th wedding anniversary on the 19 July, we picked up our tickets last week. Great offer, to good to pass up! With this offer we now have more money to spend. Originally we planned to take a trip to germany to see her family this summer, but then decided, when this offer came up, we would just stay here in Canada.

Thank You VIA!


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## GUNS

Let me see - Germany :warstory: or PEI, Germany :warstory: or PEI. Damn, such a hard decision.


----------



## retiredgrunt45

> Let me see - Germany  or PEI, Germany  or PEI. Damn, such a hard decision.




Oh, well the way I see it, the beer will still be cold in germany next summer and mother-in-law will be just as controlling as ever ;D

 Ach mein boor kleines Töchterchen, lebt sie so weiter Weg von ihrer Mama!


----------



## The Bread Guy

A bit of follow-up - more than 58K tickets issued, too early to say if it'll be repeated.  Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._

*Via Rail freebie for soldiers brings in $900,000: report*
Canadian Press, 18 Oct 08
Article link

A controversial campaign to fill Via Rail trains with military families during the summer boosted revenues at the Crown corporation by about $900,000, internal documents show.

But the freebie offer still leaves Via Rail - which ran a $200-million deficit last year - a long way from profitability.

More than 58,000 tickets were issued under the special promotion, which allowed Canadian Forces members, veterans and civilian workers at National Defence to ride free in July, while family members paid half price. Kids travelled free.

Via Rail estimates all those tickets were worth about $4 million retail, with revenues per ticket on average less than one-quarter of the regular price.

But for the last seven years, ridership has been dropping markedly in July. The corporation had been looking for a way to increase summer revenues and fill half-empty trains.

"The challenge was to create an offer that would stimulate trial (ridership) in July in order to reach the budgeted passenger and revenue targets," says a Sept. 3 internal report by Pierre Santoni, senior director of national sales.

"This had to be accomplished in a short period of time, without any marketing or advertising dollars to support the offer (in order to have a) better cost ratio."

The report and other related documents were obtained by The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act.

Via Rail also expected the promotion - limited to economy-class seats - would force more customers to upgrade to first-class as the cheaper tickets sold out. The campaign would also expose more people to rail travel and encourage them to come back at full-fare in the future.

In the end, the freebie campaign netted $783,437 directly and another $133,386 in so-called spinoff revenue - tickets for which travel started in June or ended in August, so that the non-July portion of the fare was at full-price.

The program "surpassed all objectives," Santoni wrote, partly because "an unprecedented amount of media and press value was generated without any advertising (spending) by Via Rail directly."

The freebie offer was announced with fanfare March 26 at the Halifax railway station, touted simply as a way for the Crown corporation to say thanks to military personnel.

But internal documents later showed that the campaign was partly a hard-boiled business decision to increase cash flow in the summer doldrums.

Some military families also objected to the July time frame, noting that soldiers serving in Afghanistan during the summer - the very people Via Rail said it wanted to thank - could not take advantage.

In the end, the promotion appears to have boosted July revenues by about four per cent, Santoni's report says.

Via Rail spokesman Malcolm Andrews cautioned that the corporation had already seen stronger revenues in the first six months, and July's improved numbers could be attributed to several factors, not just the military passengers.

"It's too soon to say whether Via will repeat the same promotion," Andrews said. "We are always looking at innovative ways to attract people to travel by train." ....

More on link


----------



## Armymedic

I made use of thier promotion this summer.

I definately now consider the option of a train ride for the Montreal-Ottawa-TO corridor now.


----------



## EW

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> I made use of their promotion this summer.
> 
> I definitely now consider the option of a train ride for the Montreal-Ottawa-TO corridor now.



I'll second that.  We made a trip out west using the promotion, and was pleasantly surprised by the train service on the Montreal-Ottawa-TO route.  Not sure if I'd do comfort class from TO to Vancouver again - but it was always one of things I wanted to do, and thanks to VIA I can cross it off my list.

I hope they promote the guy/gal who came up with the idea  Sounds like a win/win for everyone.  A number of CF members/veterans/DND personnel got a great deal for July, and if the company made money doing it, more power to them.  My wife and I are already planning our weekend away in TO - something we never would have considered the train for.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

While I never took advantage of the offer, I had friends that did and they became converts to rail travel.


----------



## geo

IT was a business decision taken by VIA rail.
Both VIA & the military personnel benefited from the promotion.

To those who were unhappy to squeeze more outa VIA.... you can always walk

Thank you VIA


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## Klinkaroo

Well for VIA it was a great idea, because people don't really travel alone so they did boost their sales with family members, and when you are on a train people buy food and other stuff too...

I didn't take advantage of this offer but have taken the train before, and anything under 12 hours I would definitely consider. Alot more leg room then the bus or the plane, the ability to get up and walk to stretch your legs is wonderfull. The only draw back is the price sadly, the plane if often cheaper on long distances.


----------



## Drag

I took advantage of it almost every weekend and still take VIA now from time to time.  I hope they do it again.


----------



## c_canuk

I hope these results have woken them up to the fact that they can't charge airline rates for a seat that is the same size and takes up to 4 times longer when the bus which only takes 6 times longer is 1/10th the price

I think VIA has an excellent service, they just need to drop their rates to about half what the airlines charge to draw in customers, otherwise people are going to take the plane and get there faster or the bus and save a bundle. if they charge half price what the airlines charge they will drive airline customers who want to save some money at the expense of a little time, and the bus customers who are willing to pay a little more to get there faster in a little more comfort.

Kudos to them to pick the CF to benefit form their experiment.


----------



## ENGINEERS WIFE

Via Rail offers free tickets to soldiers, vets  2009


http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/622645



Apr 22, 2009 03:39 PM 

THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA – Via Rail will offer free basic rail travel for military personnel and veterans again this summer.

The company says the free tickets will be offered in July to all serving and former members of the Forces, with other discounts available for their dependents.

A soldier or vet travelling free will be able to bring up to five family members along at half price.

They will also be offered half-price tickets for travel in business, sleeper and touring classes.

The Crown corporation offered a similar program last July and says about 60,000 people took the deal.


----------



## benny88

Link-a-roony.

http://www.viarail.ca/forces2009/en_index.html



> Purchase by June 15, 2009 for travel completed between July 1 and July 31, 2009.



Note that you must purchase it by June 15. Happy travelling!


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## mariomike

"Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is in possession of either a valid DND (NDI20) photo identification card, a valid Retired Regular Forces identification card (NDI 75 ROS), or a valid Veterans Affairs Health Identification Card."

Seems like Reservists and former ( non-retired ) members are not included.


----------



## from darkness lite

mariomike said:
			
		

> "Qualifying adult passenger is defined as any adult 18 years of age or older who is in possession of either a valid DND (NDI20) photo identification card, a valid Retired Regular Forces identification card (NDI 75 ROS), or a valid Veterans Affairs Health Identification Card."
> 
> Seems like Reservists and former ( non-retired ) members are not included.



All Forces personnel, Reg and Reserve, are in possession of a NDI 20 (or a temp).


----------



## Haggis

from darkness lite said:
			
		

> All Forces personnel, Reg and Reserve, are in possession of a NDI 20 (or a temp).



Most Class A Reservists are denied an NDI 20 and are issued an NDI 10 (a temporary I Card) instead.  Most government agencies will not accept an NDI 10 for identification purposes (i.e. for obtaining drivers licences, provincial health cards, passports etc.).


----------



## armyvern

Haggis said:
			
		

> Most Class A Reservists are denied an NDI 20 and are issued an NDI 10 (a temporary I Card) instead.  Most government agencies will not accept an NDI 10 for identification purposes (i.e. for obtaining drivers licences, provincial health cards, passports etc.).



After serving 2 years, the entitlement to an "upgrade" to an NDI20 kicks in.

(And, I could be wrong - it could be one year until NDI20 kicks in ... I just know that as the Det Comd in PEI, I arranged for a massive photo/fingerprinting session with the Ident folks from Gagetown coming over on TD so that we could get all entitled pers into their NDI20 from the temp IDs).

I'm not at work today to confirm the time-period, but it's given in the books.


----------



## the 48th regulator

So,

There should be no challenges for serving reservists?  Was there any the last time VIA offered this?

dileas

tess


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## Haggis

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> So,
> 
> There should be no challenges for serving reservists?


 I guess it depends on the diligence of the ticket agent.  Will s/he know the difference between an NDI 10 and 20?  Furthermore, will s/he care?



> Was there any the last time VIA offered this?


  Unknown, but a good question.

Retired Reservists are entitled to the NDI 75 card, but the offer specifically states that only Regular Force NDI 75 holders are eligible.  Again, I guess it will come down to the diligence of the ticket agent.


----------



## steph_3007

> Was there any the last time VIA offered this?



All I can say is that last year, a couple of guys from my unit took up the offer. So if it's like last year, there sould be no problems.


----------



## dapaterson

I do not think we should be looking for nefarious plots in this - I suspect it's just a general lack of awareness of certain issues particular to the Reserve Force in some of DND's senior staff.  That is (unfortunately) altogether too common.

I suspect that a simple request for clarification will see VIA Rail amend their qualifications list to include retired Reservists and Reservists with an NDI 10.

http://www.viarail.ca/forces2009/en_conditions.html


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## Haggis

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I do not think we should be looking for nefarious plots in this - I suspect it's just a general lack of awareness of certain issues particular to the Reserve Force in some of DND's senior staff.  That is (unfortunately) altogether too common.
> 
> I suspect that a simple request for clarification will see VIA Rail amend their qualifications list to include retired Reservists and Reservists with an NDI 10.
> 
> http://www.viarail.ca/forces2009/en_conditions.html



I agree, and I wasn't suggesting a "plot".


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## Armymedic

I anticipate the second annual complaint to the media from a wife of a soldier currently serving in Afghanistan that because she does not have a valid DND ID card, she is not entitled to the discounted fares.

Also, note that there is no provision for civilian DND employees this year (my wife got free fare last year because she is full time employee with ID), as they hold a different DND ID card from those listed.


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## PMedMoe

SFB said:
			
		

> I anticipate the second annual complaint to the media from a wife of a soldier currently serving in Afghanistan that because she does not have a valid DND ID card, she is not entitled to the discounted fares.



And then we'll see a return to the Dependent's ID Card.   :


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## mariomike

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I suspect that a simple request for clarification will see VIA Rail amend their qualifications list to include retired Reservists and Reservists with an NDI 10.



Last July they booked tickets for my wife and I when I showed them my discharge certificate at Union Station.


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## c_canuk

Reservists are entitled to a PErm ID if they have 2 years service WITH a COs letter of approval, MY previous CO could never be bothered to write me one even when I was on class B for 3 years on Base... don't know if others will have that problem... 

I'm sure Via Rail wont have a problem with the temp ID though


----------



## retiredgrunt45

The Mrs and I used it last year to go out to the east coast. This year we're going to Vancouver to visit our oldest daugter.

The service last year was great aboard the train, we paid the extra and booked ourselves a sleeper, it was a very pleasant trip, there and back.

Theres nothing like the train to see how beautiful a country we have.

Thanks again Via!!!!


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## kratz

Last year we had to cancel our planned trip with Via due to the posting. So we are happy Via is offering this speacial offer again this year. We picked our tickets up for a trip out west this summer. As resverists with a Permenant ID and Temporary ID, we had no problems.


----------



## jacksparrow

Anyone used it to go from Toronto or GTA to the east coast or west coast? I ask because we have 2 little kids and I just want to know what the journey was like and any advice you might have regarding upgrading and perhaps recommend a closer city to visit this summer


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## mariomike

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Anyone used it to go from Toronto or GTA to the east coast or west coast?



My wife and I took it from Union Station to Miramichi N.B and return last summer. We had a nice time.


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## dapaterson

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Anyone used it to go from Toronto or GTA to the east coast or west coast? I ask because we have 2 little kids and I just want to know what the journey was like and any advice you might have regarding upgrading and perhaps recommend a closer city to visit this summer



Not knowing how good your kids are at travelling, it may be worthwhile to take a few shorter trips.  Ottawa is about 4 hours away, Montreal 5.  Longer trips east would require a transfer in Montreal anyways.

For non-overnight trips, travelling in economy class should be OK, but sleeping in those seats overnight is not recommended.


----------



## retiredgrunt45

> Anyone used it to go from Toronto or GTA to the east coast or west coast? I ask because we have 2 little kids and I just want to know what the journey was like and any advice you might have regarding upgrading and perhaps recommend a closer city to visit this summer



We've gone down east from Toronto but it was only the two of us. You need a sleeper unless you want to sit in a seat for 24 hours, not recommended with small children. Train leaves GTA for Montreal and then you transfer in Montreal to another train eastbound. The whole trip to Halifax is approx 24 hours including the trip from GTA to Montreal which is about 5 1/2 hours. We left Montreal at 18:15 and arrived in Halifax the next afternoon at about 16:20. If you book a sleeper or berth you have to book it at least a month or more in advance, because they go very fast. 

Our trip to Vancouver this summer will take about 3 1/2 days.


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## Armymedic

I did Ottawa to Marimachi return last yr.

My kids are a bit older (8 -11), and we did it without a sleeper...but for them it was a huge adventure for them both ways. We got the seats facing each other with the table between, the kids just crashed on the floor under the table

If your kids are preschool....get a sleeper.


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## ricksherry

It's really simple - they will tell you at Via Rail that if you do not have the ID card, a photocopy of something that proves you served (your release form for example) is sufficient. As long as you can show them you served, it doesn't matter whether you are Reg or Reserve, you can utilize the free tickets. This is simply something for the individual soldiers or ex-soldiers. If they are here then they can use it and even take along their family on a reduced rate. This is not something offered to the families of the soldiers per se nor to civilians who work for DND - just the individual soldiers themselves. If someone wants to make a mountain out of it, then Via may just not offer it at all and then none of the soldiers or Vets will have this advantage.


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## kratz

*Dang* That's two years in a row that we have been able to get leave passes, free tickets and then have to cancel the train tickets. At least someone else will have the opportunity to benifit from the freed up seats. We are still going, but the change of plans means a drive out west vice the train.


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## kratz

If the Via Rail union goes on strike, this could put a crimp to CF member's leave plans who were travelling the last week of July.

from Canada.com



> VIA Rail union issues strike notice
> Canwest News ServiceJuly 21, 2009 5:01 PM
> 
> OTTAWA — The union that represents the locomotive engineers at VIA Rail have issued a 72-hour strike notice, meaning workers could be off the job Friday.
> 
> "Barring successful completion of the negotiating process, we will begin legal strike action at VIA Rail at noon Friday," Dan Shewchuk, president of Teamsters Canada Rail Conference, wrote in an e-mail to union members Tuesday.
> 
> He said workers may begin to reduce operations as early as Wednesday.
> 
> The union said workers will continue to operate trains on Friday because there is no intent to strand passengers.
> 
> © Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


----------



## dapaterson

Thanks for the heads up - travelling this weekend; good thing nothing is non-refundable.  Time to examine other options...


----------



## FastEddy

There's no guessing now.


Via Rail engineers officially on strike
Summer travel has been derailed for many Canadians now that the union representing Via Rail's 340 locomotive engineers say the workers have walked off the job. more...   comments(126) 

CTV News: Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife reports 1:58

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/via-rail-strike/#clip197069

Cheers.


----------



## Dean22

Just wondering if anyone knew if this deal was still active this upcoming July?

Was thinking of taking 4 round trips in July that would cost $750ish total unless they were free of course  >.


----------



## kratz

Nothing has been announced, yet. Normally the announcment for this offer the past two years has come out in March.


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## mysteriousmind

I can't wait to hear about it, it will determine my vacation time.

if it works, 

Vancouver and Edmonton here i come.


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## dapaterson

VIA rail has changed the offer this year, and is offering 60% off for CF members and their families when travelling together, for travel completed between 12 April and 31 July 2010.

Full details are online at:  http://www.viarail.ca/forces/en_index.html

Note that the deadline to puchase tickets is 18 April 2010!


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## Strike

What constitutes a "family member" is this discount?  Parents? Siblings?  Or is this limited to spouse and children?  The DWAN doesn't want to load the whole page.


----------



## mariomike

Strike said:
			
		

> What constitutes a "family member" is this discount?  Parents? Siblings?  Or is this limited to spouse and children?  The DWAN doesn't want to load the whole page.



http://www.viarail.ca/forces/en_conditions.html


----------



## dapaterson

Strike said:
			
		

> What constitutes a "family member" is this discount?  Parents? Siblings?  Or is this limited to spouse and children?  The DWAN doesn't want to load the whole page.



Discount is also applicable to immediate family members when travelling with a person in possession of one of the forms of identification described above. Immediate family members are defined to include the qualifying member's great-grandparents, grandparents, mother, father, spouse or common-law partner, children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Note that all passengers must travel together on the same trains and dates in the same class of service.


----------



## swoop_ds

Hello,

Does anyone know if the VIA rail July promotion will be happening in 2010??

Thanks!
-Dave


----------



## ekpiper

Hi Dave,

I'm guessing that your post was actually in a new thread, but you didn't see tis already active thread, nor search.

The details of the promotion are given above.

ekpiper


----------



## Occam

For anyone who missed the VIA Rail Canadian Forces Seat Sale discount of 60% this year (the offer ended yesterday), it would appear that the 60% discount is being extended to everyone now.

You have to book before 25 April 2010 for travel before 31 July 2010.


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## EW

It's back again for 2010, and for six-weeks this summer vice just July.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/media-room/latest-news/1523/31-may-2010-via-rail-and-the-government-of-canada-honour-canadian-forces-and-veterans-with-free-rail-travel


----------



## TrexLink

*Via Rail gives free summer travel to soldiers, families
*
By ALTHIA RAJ, Parliamentary Bureau, QMI Agency

Last Updated: May 30, 2010 6:14pm

OTTAWA - The federal government and Via Rail will announce Monday they will provide members of the Canadian Forces and veterans free train passes this summer.

"Our Armed Forces personnel do so much for us. It's nice to be able to give back to them and allow their families an opportunity to explore Canada," a senior government official said.

Members of the Forces and retired veterans will be able to travel in economy class for free during a six-week period, beginning on July 1, the source said. Discounts rates will apply to first class and sleeper car travel, as well as for members of their families.

This is the third time the program is being offered.

In previous years, members of the Armed Forces fighting in Afghanistan have questioned why they are excluded from the deal while Department of National Defence civilians were snatching up seats.

The source said the government was aware of the problem and was working to address it.

www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/05/30/14193726.html


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## bwatch

10 years or more?. What about someone who has put in under 10 years, is there no card?


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## Spr.Earl

Great for you lot down east but not for us on the Left Coast !
Yup the center of Canada is Toronto and Motnreal!
Yup BOHICA again for the Left Coast!


----------



## dapaterson

VIA Rail workers have voted 94% in favour of a strike, possibly starting as early as 27 June.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100611/caw-via-rail-100611/


----------



## Celticgirl

I tried to take advantage of this deal for myself and my daughter, especially with the $10 fare for kids 11 and under (it would cost next to nothing for the 2 of us to travel and I knew she would love the adventure of taking the train). However, it seems there are only selected trains that the military 'discount' is good for. The dates I wanted were not available, but even if there were seats left on those dates, I would have been looking at a one or two-night stopover in order to meet a connecting train going to my final destination in each direction. I suppose if you were only taking a one-leg trip and didn't care about dates and times (i.e. arriving at 2 a.m. and such), then it's a good deal.    As for us, we'll be driving to our vacation destination this summer with the rest of the family.


----------



## Occam

I thought about making a separate thread for this; I wonder if this spells the end of the free travel period offered the last few summers?



Veterans, soldiers receive Via Rail discount

Original link

By Postmedia News, Postmedia News November 1, 2010

OTTAWA — Veterans, Canadian Forces personnel and their families can now count on receiving a 25-per-cent discount off their Via Rail fares year round.

The announcement was made Monday in front of a group of veterans at the Canadian War Museum by Veteran Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Defence Minister Peter MacKay and Via Rail officials.

"Our veterans and their families have made great sacrifices so that we can live in a democratic and free country," Blackburn said. "Today, only days before the start of Veterans' Week, is the most fitting time to offer them this tangible and important proof of respect and gratitude we owe them."

The discounted fares apply to all classes of VIA service, including economy, business and sleeper. The discount off the best available fare has no route or date restrictions.

"These reduced fares mean our brave men and women in uniform and their families can travel and enjoy more of the country they serve and defend each day," MacKay added.

The discount was effective Monday. Under the plan, current Canadian Forces members and veterans can be accompanied by up to five additional family members, provided they travel on the same trains, dates and in the same classes.

Veterans' Week runs from Nov. 5 to 11.


Link to VIA Rail press release


----------



## Strike

Overheard that VIA is offering free travel to military this summer but checked their website and didn't see anything except last year's news release.  Anyone have any gen on this?


----------



## the 48th regulator

Strike said:
			
		

> Overheard that VIA is offering free travel to military this summer but checked their website and didn't see anything except last year's news release.  Anyone have any gen on this?



I was doing just that too, found nothing but this;

Government of Canada and VIA Rail Honour Canadian Forces with Reduced Year-Round Fares

Wonder if it is a trade off?

dileas

tess


----------



## dapaterson

The year-round discount (requires ID, certificate of service or retired member ID) is a fantastic deal; when they offer other deals you can add on the military discount on top.  For example, earlier this year VIA offered 50% off some fares; CF members would get 25% off the already reduced fare, and pay 37.5% of the regular fare.

For those who've never done it:  You can order by phone or in person and identify yourself as CF.  At ticket pickup, you must have your ID with you.  Online, when you're ordering, there's a dropdown for discounts.  This is "Other Discount" and code "12070".

The discount applies to the member, their spouse and kids, and parents.


----------



## SevenSixTwo

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The year-round discount (requires ID, certificate of service or retired member ID) is a fantastic deal; when they offer other deals you can add on the military discount on top.  For example, earlier this year VIA offered 50% off some fares; CF members would get 25% off the already reduced fare, and pay 37.5% of the regular fare.
> 
> For those who've never done it:  You can order by phone or in person and identify yourself as CF.  At ticket pickup, you must have your ID with you.  Online, when you're ordering, there's a dropdown for discounts.  This is "Other Discount" and code "12070".
> 
> The discount applies to the member, their spouse and kids, and parents.



Wouldn't let me apply the discount to a -80% fare hahahaha.


----------



## vtx-al

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The year-round discount (requires ID, certificate of service or retired member ID) is a fantastic deal; when they offer other deals you can add on the military discount on top.  For example, earlier this year VIA offered 50% off some fares; CF members would get 25% off the already reduced fare, and pay 37.5% of the regular fare.
> 
> For those who've never done it:  You can order by phone or in person and identify yourself as CF.  At ticket pickup, you must have your ID with you.  Online, when you're ordering, there's a dropdown for discounts.  This is "Other Discount" and code "12070".
> 
> The discount applies to the member, their spouse and kids, and parents.
> 
> This post requires some ampification. The 25% discount applies to the LOWEST available fare . For example, if you are a vet and over age 60, you can get the seniors discount minus the 25%. However, if there are other discounts available which ALREADY HAVE a discount code, you cannot combine  the military/vet discount code of 12070 with another discount code. Never the less, it is still a significant savings. My wife and I have booked a Via Rail trip from Vancouver to Halifax for July '12 in "Sleeper Touring" class which includes a small bedroom and meals, where the 25% discount amounted to over $900.00 savings over the already discounted "seniors rate". Good deal, if you ask me !!
> 
> ...VTX-AL


----------

