# Canadian Decoration: C.D. [Merged]



## Veteran`s son (14 Jul 2003)

Hello

When post-nominal letters and regiment abbreviations are listed after someone‘s name, which one comes first?

For example, my Dad earned the Canadian Forces Decoration and served with the Royal Canadian Engineers.

Would the abbreviations be CD, RCE or would they be reversed? Also, does there have to be  periods between the C and D?

Again, your replies would be appreciated!


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## Spr.Earl (14 Jul 2003)

Vet‘s Son,
All award‘s come first like in your father‘s case
it would be Rank,Name,C.D. R.C.E.

The C.D. is conciderd as an award like the V.C. and all other award‘s.

C.D.,(twelve year‘s of undetected crime LOL)
is a good conduct medal.

If your father had won the V.C. it would be,
Rank,name ,V.C.,C.D.,R.C.E.
Award‘s go by rank,V.C. being the highest.

Like mine is Spr.Earl,C.D.,C.M.E.
(Canadian Military Engineers)

But campaign medal‘s are not put after your name.

Hope‘s this help‘s.

Can anyone post the Canadian Medal list to help 
Vet‘s Son?


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## portcullisguy (20 Jul 2003)

According to the Dept of Canadian Heritage, post-nominals are used in certain situations to denote Crown honours, awards, medals and official appointments.

Post-nominals have a specific order or precedence, and it is also not always appropriate to use all of them, depending on your audience or situation.

For example, if you have a PhD and a Bachelor‘s degree, you normally just put "PhD" and not "PhD, BA" following your name.

Generally, the highest-ranking awards come first after the name, unless the courtesy title "Esq." is used.  In that case, the post-nominals follow the courtesy title.

A British book, "Debrett‘s Correct Form", sets out the custom used in Britain and the Commonwealth for the use of post-nominal letters.  It includes both civil and military use, and styles of address, etc., for people of different rank and precedence.  The custom is similar in Canada, except that we have our own precedence because we have our own honours and awards, which do not include or recognize knighthoods.

The general ranking of letters after the name are as follows:

1. Orders and decorations conferred by the Crown.

2. Appointments to Crown offices, such as Privy Councellor (PC), and Aide de Camp (AdC).

3. Law appointments: Queen‘s Counsel (QC), Justice of the Peace (JP).

4. University degrees.

5. Religious orders, then medical qualifications.

6. Fellowships of learned societies, fellowships/memberships to professional institutions, and Writers to the Signet (WS).

7. Members of Parliament (MP) and Members of a Legislative Assembly (MLA) or Provincial Parliament (MPP).

8. Membership in one of the armed forces corps (RCAC, REME, etc).

All of these letters follow "Esq." if used.  If the person is a Baronet, they follow "Bt." if used.

The precedence of the orders is set by CF regulation.  The Canadian Forces Decoration (CD) is one of the last ones in the order of precedence.  The Order of Canada had three ranks and it is the most senior Canadian order.  Companion, the highest rank (CC), follows immediately after the VC and GC, unless the holder is a Companion of another more senior order (CH, CB, CSI, CMG), which isn‘t likely in Canada.

Check the DND website for the ranking of military honours.

Not all honours include post-nominals.

One thing I noticed is here in Canada, some people use "MID" as a post-nominal, to indicate a mention-in-despatches.  This is actually incorrect.  There is no post-nominal for this.


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## Veteran`s son (20 Jul 2003)

portcullisguy &  Spr. Earl

Thank you for your responses  to my question as it was most helpful!


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

So Port,that mean‘s I can‘t put V.D. after my name now? Ahhhh!


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## Michael Dorosh (20 Jul 2003)

Don‘t laugh, Spr. Earl, the Volunteer Decoration (VD) was actually awarded before it was replaced by the CD just before the Korean War.  I wonder if it was as funny then as it is to us now?


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## Danjanou (20 Jul 2003)

****, Michael beat me to it (again).

I remember the first time I saw that(VD)on a list of orders and decoration and though it must be a typo.


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

Touche Sir Micheal,
There‘s me being a smart arse.

I salute you.

Oh quetion,what come‘s first the C.D. or the Jubliee medal?


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## Danjanou (20 Jul 2003)

Jubilee Medal comes before the CD.


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## MG34 (26 Jul 2003)

Everything goes before the CD even that idiotic CPSM.The CD is the lowest ranked decoration and it should be it is a gimmie medal like the Jubilee medals and 125 medal more wasted money so the PONTIs(Person of no tactical importance) could have gongs as well.


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## Recce41 (26 Jul 2003)

The JM, CD, 125 mybe give aways but are decorations. In the Boar War, WW1/2, the had give aways, Volunteer medal etc. In Britian they have theirs also. The Commandwealth Service, Volunteer Serve, etc. We can wear the Commandwealth servise, but no one here would allow it. The US is the worst for give MEs. 
In the begining, every soldier was to receive the following, turn of Cent medal 1900, Kings Medal, Queens Cor, Queens 25, Queens Jub, 125, Centenial 67, and some that never came about, Cent 2000, Noble Peace, NATO Service.
 Here at the Armour School we have loosers, with just the CD. Its funny, when them wine and cry. But tell them how can you go on tour, if your scared to go to the Regt. 

  :evil:    :tank:


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## Veteran`s son (26 Jul 2003)

Do most people who have earned the Canadian Forces Decoration use the post-nominal letters(CD) after their name?


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Jul 2003)

I for one take great pride in my "gimme" medal; no one gave it to me, I earned it with 12 years service and good conduct.  And I do put CD after my name in formal correspondence.  I include it with my name on my book covers and I have it on the name plate outside my office at my civvie job.

Matters not, most people don‘t have a clue what it means, which is ok.  Surely 12 years service, even in the Reserve force, is as prestigious if not more than a Bachelor of Arts degree in Sociology or Humanities, which also comes with a post-nominal representing four years of sleeping in a classroom.


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## Veteran`s son (27 Jul 2003)

Michael

I think that it is great that you list the post-nominals(CD)after your name!    
You must be very proud to have earned this medal!


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## Veteran`s son (1 Aug 2003)

Am I correct in understanding that since my Dad served in the RCE, he was entitled to have that abbreviation after his name?

Does that apply only to CF members who are currently serving?

Also, are there any other medals such as the SSM that are being considered for the use of post-nominal letters?


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## John Nayduk (1 Aug 2003)

Usually, post nominal letters are only for Orders or decorations, not medals.


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## The_Falcon (4 Aug 2003)

If you the complete list of Canadian Medals and Honours, go to  http://www.gg.ca/honours/ordprec_e.asp 
This is the complete list of honours and decorations that can be awarded to Canadians, also it indicates which awards include the right to use post nominal letters and they are in order of precedence (a CD is not the lowest). The DND list is incomplete, they even state on the DND site that they only list medals commonly awarded to military members, but all military members can wear the non-DND listed awards if they have earned them. They may raise eyebrows though.  On member of my unit was awarded the Ontario Police Bravery Medal, and the Sr NCO flipped cause they didn‘t what it was. I myself in a few years time will have earned the "Service Medal of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem" and probably also a grade of "The Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem". Both will get me noticed though


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## nbpcp (6 Dec 2007)

This is a very old post but I needed to post after reading it.  I was wondering, are military and civil decorations and commendation post nominals, V.C., M.B., C.C. etc, held in the same regard as say regular educational/vocational post nominals like M.D., P.T. or B.A. etc.  Do post-nominals being issued by the Canadian Government as opposed to ones being issued by a College of Nurses for example or Physicians, have any added privileges, or be recognized in a different manner by the government?


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## 1feral1 (6 Dec 2007)

Knew an old soldier once that had these - CD, VD Clap, and Scar (and its not me  ;D)

Ha!

With the five gongs I have, the only P-N is the CD, which I do use here but not very often.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Steve031 (6 Dec 2007)

In the modern Canadian Forces, the use of post-nominal letters to identify branch, corps or regiment is no longer in style.  In fact, I believe it is not even authorized.  Following the unification of the army, the RCN and the RCAF into the CAF, there was no longer a reason for post-nominal letters to denote what service a person belonged to.  Up until that point, it was necessary for a Lt. in the RCN to have post-nominals to distinguish himself from a subaltern in the army.  With the creation of the ranks of Lt (N) and Capt (N), this was no longer necessary.  So, for a modern officer to add post-nominals to their name signifying their branch would be highly unusual.

Since your father was a member of the RCE, he WAS in the army before unification and thus is from a period when such post-nominals were fashionable.  However, since your father was a member of the other ranks, he would not have been entitled to use them.  An example of a person who would use such post-nominals is:  Capt John Smith PPCLI  An example of a retired person who would use them could be:  Mr. Joseph Bloggins  RCEME (ret.)  In this case, the officer was a subaltern when he retired.


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## Aerobicrunner (7 Dec 2007)

Refs: A.  QR&O 15.09
B.  A-AD-200-000/AG-000 The Honours, Flags and Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces
C.  A-AD-121-000/AB-001 The Canadian Style, ISBN 1-55002-276-8-93-8    http://www.translationbureau.gc.ca/index.php?lang=english&cont=791
     (Ref C is the publication which was put out originally by the Secretary of State, but the Revised and Expanded version was put out by the Translation Bureau of the Cdn 
      Govt stating proper protocols for all manners of official writing.  With the demise of the CF Military Writing Manual, the Canadian Style manual was adopted as a   
      guide.)    

Ref B lists the honours and awards that are allowed to be inserted after a name as a Post Nominal. There is no Post Nominal for CDS Commendation or Mentioned in Despatches.  The letters are not abbreviated, i.e. you do not put V.C. or C.D. only VC or CD.  You do not put CD1 or CD2.  Steve031 is correct in saying that the use of branch, corps etc is no longer used and is not authorized.  If you are retired and use your rank, the only authorized post nominal to be used is "Retired" or the abbreviation "Ret'd as stated in Refs A and B.  Also note that you must have served at least 10 years to be able to use the title Retired after your name.  Refs B (Chap 11 para 18) and C (article 1.08) allow academic titles to be used. Ref C allows for degrees, professional designations and memberships and states "Unless all honours have to be indicated for information or protocol purposes, no more than two abbreviations need follow a persons name- as, for example, in correspondence.  Select the two Highest honours of different types and list them in the following order of precedence: first, distinctions conferred directly by the Crown (VC, CD, QC, etc.); second, university degrees (MA, BCom, etc.); and third, letters denoting membership in societies and other distinctions (PEng, CA, CHRP, etc.).  Note that no periods are used."


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## Blackadder1916 (7 Dec 2007)

Aerobicrunner said:
			
		

> Refs: A.  QR&O 15.09
> B.  A-AD-200-000/AG-000 The Honours, Flags and Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces
> 
> Ref B lists the honours and awards that are allowed to be inserted after a name as a Post Nominal. There is no Post Nominal for CDS Commendation or Mentioned in Despatches.  The letters are not abbreviated, i.e. you do not put V.C. or C.D. only VC or CD.



Chap 2, Annex A, Appendix 1 of the Ref B above says it is a "(Reprint of Order in Council PC 1998-591 of 2 April 1998 (Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive, 1998))".  It shows the postnominals without periods.

The following is from Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive, 1998    P.C. 1998-591 2 April, 1998  

1. The sequence for wearing the insignia of Canadian orders, decorations and medals, and the post-nominal letters associated with the orders, decorations and medals, are the following: 

Victoria Cross (V.C.) 
Cross of Valour (C.V.) 

NATIONAL ORDERS 

Companion of the Order of Canada (C.C.) 
Officer of the Order of Canada (O.C.) 
Member of the Order of Canada (C.M.) 
Commander of the Order of Military Merit (C.M.M.) 
Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (C.V.O.) 
Officer of the Order of Military Merit (O.M.M.) 
Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order (L.V.O.) 
Member of the Order of Military Merit (M.M.M.) 
Member of the Royal Victorian Order (M.V.O.) 
The Most Venerable Order of St. John of Jerusalem (all grades) (post-nominal letters only for internal use by the Order of St. John) 

PROVINCIAL ORDERS 

Ordre national du Québec (G.O.Q., O.Q., C.Q.) 
The Saskatchewan Order of Merit (S.O.M.) 
The Order of Ontario (O.Ont.) 
The Order of British Columbia (O.B.C.) 
The Alberta Order of Excellence (A.O.E.) 
The Order of Prince Edward Island (O.P.E.I.) 

DECORATIONS 

Star of Military Valour (S.M.V.) 
Star of Courage (S.C.) 
Meritorious Service Cross (M.S.C.) 
Medal of Military Valour (M.M.V.) 
Medal of Bravery (M.B.) 
Meritorious Service Medal (M.S.M.) 
Royal Victorian Medal (R.V.M.) 

Canadian Forces Decoration (C.D.) 

Ontario Medal for Good Citizenship (O.M.C.) 
Saskatchewan Volunteer Medal (S.V.M.) 

 Note the periods in the postnominals.  The CF manual is incorrect.


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## Aerobicrunner (7 Dec 2007)

Thanks for that observation and link BA1916.  The CF manual has been trumped.  I will see if I can bring this up with the Directorate of History and Heritage to have them make amendments to the manual.  I also decided to send an email to the Translation Bureau, the organization reponsible for publishing _The Canadian Style _ to see if they can correct their information bank and reflect the changes in their next manual.
Note to Add:  Already received a stock reply from Translation Bureau stating that my comments will be considered in due time.


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## Blackadder1916 (7 Dec 2007)

Just when one thinks that they have found the smoking gun, an explanation appears.  I guess that current federal laws and regulations don't follow current Canadian style or perhaps the CF sets its own style.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/018-12_e.asp


> CFAO 18-12 -- ORDERS, DECORATIONS AND MEDALS -PRECEDENCE
> 
> 1.     The protocol for wearing the insignia of Canadian orders, decorations, and medals, separately or together with Commonwealth or foreign individual honours, is governed by the directive reprinted in Annex A.
> .....
> ...


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## TCBF (7 Dec 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Everything goes before the CD even that idiotic CPSM.The CD is the lowest ranked decoration and it should be it is a gimmie medal like the Jubilee medals and 125 medal more wasted money so the PONTIs(Person of no tactical importance) could have gongs as well.



- In days of yore, it was very rare to get a CD in only 12 years.  Remember that before 2/3s of Vol 2 was re-written in the mid 90s, the opening sentence for the chapter on the laying of charges was "A charge is layed when there are reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been commited."

Not "could be layed", not "might be layed", not "if the social worker says it's okay"...

No gnashing of teeth, calling the AJAG-cum-Padre, no having to prove a guy guilty before you have to prove him guilty, just lay the charge and hope he folds up like a cheap suitcase when he goes in front of The Old Man.

EVERYBODY had something on their conduct sheet.  Almost all of them for a charge during basic, then charges for drunkeness on the Regimental Birthday, then for two weeks AWOL during hunting season, then of course no one EVER got through CB without being charged at least one more for railroad tracks on the workdress trousers on the 2300 hours show parade on the parade square (by flashlight).

So we had a whole generation of long-service NCOs with delayed CDs because of their charges and "piss-can time".

And a fine bunch of NCOs they were, too.  Best in the world.

Tom


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## Blackadder1916 (7 Dec 2007)

As it relates to the common practise of denigrating the Canadian Forces Decoration, I'll direct those who may be interested to a story that I told on another thread.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47050/post-409156.html#msg409156


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## Shamrock (7 Dec 2007)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - In days of yore, it was very rare to get a CD in only 12 years.  Remember that before 2/3s of Vol 2 was re-written in the mid 90s, the opening sentence for the chapter on the laying of charges was "A charge is layed when there are reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been commited."
> 
> Not "could be layed", not "might be layed", not "if the social worker says it's okay"...
> 
> ...



I seem to recall recorded warnings being handed out like candy a few years ago.


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## nbpcp (8 Dec 2007)

Has any heard of someone putting their post-nominals on their drivers license? Ive heard of doctors doing this but would it be laughed at if someone in the military did this?


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## LCIS-Tech (11 Dec 2007)

I know that this topic is getting a little off the mark now, with all of this talk about CDs and such, but I thought: "what the hell. Throw my 2 cents in too". I had not read the thread that Blackadder had posted, and I admit that I had never thought of my CD in quite that way. Having only recently recieved my first bar to my CD, I (even as recently as a couple of months ago) have referred to it as 22 years of (not undetected, but rather) un PROVEN crime. That story certainly puts a different perspective on it. I like it. On another note however, I also happen to have my "Germany Beer Drinking Medal", and, to my ever-lasting shame, the 125 and QGJM. Truth be told, I never wore my 125 medal for the longest time. I just didn't right wearing it. It "should" have gone to EVERY member of the CF who was serving their country during it's 125th anniversary. It was a commemorative medal afterall! The same held true for the QGJM. As with the British, EVERY CF Member "should" have recieved that Medal in recongition of their service during the Quenn's golden jubilee. The only reason I actually went out and got them court-mounted and started wearing them was that a keen-eyed MWO.... who will remain nameless (you know who you are....Mike)....happened to notice them listed on my MPRR and asked me on following 1A Parade where they were....It still kind of irks me a bit, buit at least I have something to show that I was serving during those "milestone years"....


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## Roy Harding (11 Dec 2007)

That post by Blackadder IS thought provoking, isn't it?

I'm glad he posted it - I think about it every time I look at the (previously) least valued item on my "rack".


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## IN HOC SIGNO (11 Dec 2007)

Yes that was a great post Blackadder. the last time I got a bar to the CD I asked the presenter what he was going to say. He looked rather surprised and asked me why I was asking. I said because if you're going to make lame remarks about so many years of undetected crime you might as well save us the embarrassement and just give it to me in his office. He looked surprised and said "so what do you want me to say seeing as you have such a strong opinion about it." I said how about "this is an honour that is proudly worn to indicate another 10 years of dedicated service to Queen and country." That's exactly what he said too and predicated it with the story about me asking him not to refer to it as a medal for simply putting in time. 
(I wear it proudly next to my "I went to Cyprus and gained 10 pounds at Meseh dinners" medal and my "The CF got a Nobel Peace Prize so I got this one to commemorate it" medal.)


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## Aerobicrunner (11 Dec 2007)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Just when one thinks that they have found the smoking gun, an explanation appears.  I guess that current federal laws and regulations don't follow current Canadian style or perhaps the CF sets its own style.
> 
> http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/018-12_e.asp



I have just received the following email from the Linguisitcs Advisor of the Translation Bureau of Public Works and Government Services regarding my query on Post Nominals.  However, it may be a mute point in view of Black Adder's research.  However they did agree to meet the QR&O article on the proper abbreviation of Retired.

"We will consider your comments and references on post nominals whenever the time comes to update The Canadian Style. It seems, for the moment, to be a matter of in-house style preference. The best we can offer for now is to choose a style and use it consistently.

As for the word "Retired," we can have the online version of The Canadian Style changed to reflect article 15.09 of the Queens Regulations and Orders. Thank you for pointing this out."


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## Wolf117 (12 Dec 2012)

Hello

I'm trying to find out what being on Initial Counselling does to your eligibility to receive your CD.  Does it bump it back a certain period of time or completely negate you receiving it?

Thanks.


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## dapaterson (12 Dec 2012)

Can't find a more recent edition of CFP 200, but the 2003 edition I have states:



> 13. A member who is on probation or on report
> because of inefficiency (see Canadian Forces
> Administrative Order (CFAO) 26-17, Recorded
> Warning and Counselling on Probation - Other Ranks
> ...


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Dec 2012)

An IC will definitely not result in a mbr never getting their CD.   WRT to forefeited time towards, etc, I uhhhh...have a buddy who was on an IC a few years ago and it didn't change his 1st clasp eligibility date at all.


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## Shamrock (12 Dec 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Can't find a more recent edition of CFP 200, but the 2003 edition I have states:



Sadly, it has been replaced with:



> 6A. Honours to individuals have been deleted
> from this manual and will be the subject of a separate
> publication to be issued later by the Directorate
> Honours and Recognition.



And the cited CFAO has been cancelled.

Granted, I can find no specific reference stating the CD should be awarded at all, so I should clearly call it a night.

An IC is a remedial measure


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## Occam (12 Dec 2012)

The cited CFAO has been replaced by DAOD 5019-4, Remedial Measures.  An IC is the equivalent of the old VW.  I don't believe any remedial measures result in deferred time for your CD, as they aren't disciplinary actions resulting in an entry on your conduct sheet.  As for the references...maybe tomorrow?


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## Aerobicrunner (12 Dec 2012)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Sadly, it has been replaced with:
> 
> And the cited CFAO has been cancelled.
> 
> ...



Ref A. QR&O 18.27 - Forfeiture of Medals - http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol1/ch018_e.asp#18.01
B. DH&R CD Site -  http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=CD
C.   Adm Process for CD - http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/DHRIM/mhrrp/Ch18/engraph/ch18_e.pdf
D.  McCreery, Christopher. _The Canadian Forces Decoration._ Directorate of Honours and Recognition. Publication DGM-10-04-0007 
E.  DAOD 5019 - Remedial Measures


DH&R publishes all the Honours and Awards at ref B (intranet only and much easier than amending publications) and it states time required for eligibility.  Note the bit about post nominals i.e. CD not CD1 or CD2.  Ref C  reinforces the eligibility time and the administrative processes involved in forfeiture of time. Ref A indicates conditions to forfeit medals.  Ref D is the publication that was commissioned by DH&R to commemorate the 60th year of the CD.  Appendix 4 in the book indicates the current Regulations and eligibility for the Establishment of the Canadian Forces Decoration with Order in Council PC 1981-2310 19 Aug 81.

Ref E are Remedial Measures (RM) and are administrative in nature, not disciplinary, so one would not forfeit time as a result of being placed on C&P, as reiterated at ref C above.


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## Eye In The Sky (13 Dec 2012)

:goodpost:


Internet link to DAOD 5019-4 - Remedial Measures....just in case you missed Occam's post [like I did].  :blotto:


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## Shamrock (13 Dec 2012)

Found it (edit: apparently, well after aerobicrunner had, so I should just call it a night):

APM-245 chapter 18 (viewable at http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/DHRIM/mhrrp/Ch18/engraph/ch18_e.pdf)



> 7.0 Current Non-Creditable Service Days (CNCSD)
> 
> The number of CNCSD is the cumulated sum of service days that the member cannot count as qualifying time for the CD. Non-creditable service days shall include days described in the sections below entitled “Forfeiture” and “Non-Creditable Service”. Total CNCSD are added to the CD Base Date to calculate the eligibility date.
> 
> ...


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## Occam (13 Dec 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Internet link to DAOD 5019-4 - Remedial Measures



Now why didn't I think of posting that link?


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## Blackadder1916 (13 Dec 2012)

Has CFAO 18-9 The Canadian Forces Decoration been superceded?  It is used to be the enabling order for the CD.  While the previous posts well outline what days are not credited for the CD, has there been a change in policy in awarding the decoration while on remedial measures.  In the old days, being on RW or C&P would (or should) delay the awarding (i.e. recommendation and presentation) of the CD/clasp.  The eligibility date didn't change, you just didn't get the medal until after completing the RW/C&P period.

The (old ?) CFAO 18-9 read:


> CONDUCT, EFFICIENCY AND TIME PREREQUISITE
> 
> 7.   To be eligible for the CD or a clasp the member must have a record of
> good conduct.  No member shall be considered to have a record of good
> ...


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## Shamrock (13 Dec 2012)

CFAO 18-9 -- THE CANADIAN FORCES DECORATION


Cancelled 2008-11-28


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## Eye In The Sky (13 Dec 2012)

Occam said:
			
		

> Now why didn't I think of posting that link?



Doh!!!   :facepalm:


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## GreenMarine (3 Dec 2013)

OK just reading the above some clarity.

AWOL takes away from a CD

But it is also a Minor punishment.

My CD is due July 14 and I'm looking at a AWOL Charge this week (late 15min due to icy road conditions) and Summary trail (unclear if I get to elect of CM) next week so is it delayed 1 day or I have to wait another 7-8 years??  JAG wasn't clear when I asked.


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2013)

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> My CD is due July 14 and I'm looking at a AWOL Charge this week (late 15min due to icy road conditions) and Summary trail (unclear if I get to elect of CM) next week so is it delayed 1 day or I have to wait another 7-8 years??  JAG wasn't clear when I asked.



 ;D

 >

Just a point, that most here will confirm; you will not get your CD on your due date.  It is almost always guaranteed to be later.  In fact, you may find some that waited two or more years to get theirs.  

That being said, I don't think you will have a definite answer until such time as you have been "convicted" of being AWOL.  If the Charge is thrown out for any reason, your worries are moot points.


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## DAA (3 Dec 2013)

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> OK just reading the above some clarity.
> AWOL takes away from a CD
> But it is also a Minor punishment.
> My CD is due July 14 and I'm looking at a AWOL Charge this week (late 15min due to icy road conditions) and Summary trail (unclear if I get to elect of CM) next week so is it delayed 1 day or I have to wait another 7-8 years??  JAG wasn't clear when I asked.



Depends on what the final outcome is of the AWOL Charge.  If your found guilty and awarded what is considered to be a "minor punishment", then there is should be no impact.


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## dangerboy (3 Dec 2013)

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> My CD is due July 14 and I'm looking at a AWOL Charge this week (late 15min due to icy road conditions) and Summary trail (unclear if I get to elect of CM) next week so is it delayed 1 day or I have to wait another 7-8 years??  JAG wasn't clear when I asked.



Under QR&O 108.17 the five minor charges that are not electable are: Insubordinate Behaviour (85), Quarrels and Disturbances (86), Absence Without Leave (90), Drunkenness (97), and Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline (129) - only in regards to training, maintenance of personal equipment, quarters or workspace, or dress and deportment.  If you are charged under one of those five you normally don't get to elect CM. Your assistance officer should explain all this to you.


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## GreenMarine (11 Dec 2013)

Charged Guilty of AWOL, Punishment a Caution....Reprimand was the only one that could effect a CD as I found out later.


----------



## Benzyme (16 Dec 2013)

What a joke the system can be...

Basically, if your punishment is a Caution, you shouldn't even be charged in the first place.
Your charge will also not appear on your conduct sheet.

I personally don't believe you should have been charged in the first place, unless this is a recurring thing on your part.

You can consider this "guilty" verdict a win.


----------



## PuckChaser (16 Dec 2013)

I think you've completely missed the point of the military justice system.  :facepalm:


----------



## comicnut (22 Jan 2014)

Green Machine
Reprimand is not the only thing that can affect a CD, read previous posts.

Also every day you are AWOL will delay your CD date by 1 day.

Further, being charged AWOL is not a punishment it is a charge.

Your punishment, if it is other than a fine or minor in nature will still delay your CD eligibility by a year plus you won't be able to get it for 8 years.  
Still in your case, a caution, as a punishment won't affect your CD.
However your 1 day of AWOL should if your BOR is on the ball.


----------



## GreenMarine (22 Jan 2014)

thanks there given that my OR is behind on CDs by almost a year I'm not concerned, I know in my head as to how long I've served my country.


----------



## Tibbson (26 Jan 2014)

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> thanks there given that my OR is behind on CDs by almost a year I'm not concerned, I know in my head as to how long I've served my country.



Sadly, its not your OR that is behind on CDs.  I think the delay, for what ever reason....I'm not judging or pointing fingers, is much higher then that.  I went down to submit the paperwork for my bar (yes, I know "the system" should pick up on it but it didn't) and it took almost 11 months to have it sent to my Unit for presentation.   I would have thought someone would have gone to the closet, picked up a box with a ribbon/bar/rosette in it, slapped a label on it and sent it down to us in a week or two but I guess it takes much longer then that.


----------



## PuckChaser (26 Jan 2014)

Schindler's lift said:
			
		

> Sadly, its not your OR that is behind on CDs.  I think the delay, for what ever reason....I'm not judging or pointing fingers, is much higher then that.  I went down to submit the paperwork for my bar (yes, I know "the system" should pick up on it but it didn't) and it took almost 11 months to have it sent to my Unit for presentation.   I would have thought someone would have gone to the closet, picked up a box with a ribbon/bar/rosette in it, slapped a label on it and sent it down to us in a week or two but I guess it takes much longer then that.



The CF is awesome at timely recognition of its pers.  :


----------



## Eye In The Sky (26 Jan 2014)

I was due 1st bar in Nov '11.  I was presented it June 2013.

rancing:


----------



## Tibbson (26 Jan 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I was due 1st bar in Nov '11.  I was presented it June 2013.
> 
> rancing:



This was my second bar so one would think that after 32 years in uniform I shouldn't be surprised that it took 34 years to have it recognized.  lol  I'm tempted to apply now for my third one in the event I'm still in by that time and haven't learned my lesson.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (26 Jan 2014)

*A well oiled machine*   ;D


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (26 Jan 2014)

Benzyme said:
			
		

> What a joke the system can be...
> 
> Basically, if your punishment is a Caution, you shouldn't even be charged in the first place.
> Your charge will also not appear on your conduct sheet.
> ...



Awarding a "Caution" allows the Presiding Officer to legally acknowledge and record that the member did indeed commit the offence without hammering him. Mitigating circumstances usually come into play for this to be awarded. It also means that if the member ends up being sentenced again over the next two years he can expect to face a harsher punishment. A Presiding Officer at subsequent sentencing will see the Conduct Sheet, and if someone got a Caution and ended up there again it will be fairly evident that he only responds to elevated punishments. As such, I find the Caution to be a very useful aspect of the military justice system. It is not a waste and it can serve to correct behaviour.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (19 Nov 2014)

blackberet17 said:
			
		

> Yep. We're short at both levels, NCMs and Offrs.
> 
> And there's also the apparent shortage of CDs, too.



What? Now you have to wait *more* than three years after qualifying to get one?


----------



## dimsum (19 Nov 2014)

recceguy said:
			
		

> What? Now you have to wait *more* than three years after qualifying to get one?



Dammit - I'm just coming up on 2 years post-qualification.  

How does one manage to run out of CDs though?  It's not like they (the system) don't know when people become qualified for it, and you don't need multiple copies (or different sizes).


----------



## George Wallace (19 Nov 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Dammit - I'm just coming up on 2 years post-qualification.
> 
> How does one manage to run out of CDs though?  It's not like they (the system) don't know when people become qualified for it, and you don't need multiple copies (or different sizes).



The thought came to mind that perhaps that may be how they funded a small quantity of Jubilee medals......  >  .......Robbing Peter to pay Paul.


----------



## mba2011 (19 Nov 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The thought came to mind that perhaps that may be how they funded a small quantity of Jubilee medals......  >  .......Robbing Peter to pay Paul.



Its the Supply Chain in Action! :facepalm:

It would be interesting to know where the issue is. Demand for the CD should be fairly easy to determine (Max Number of recipients + a fudge Factor) so It would seem that the issue is either on the manufacturer's side, or our own supply system.


----------



## cupper (19 Nov 2014)

Budget cuts?

Since not everyone wears their medals at the same time, you will now have to share them. Each unit will be responsible to schedule who gets the medal on which day.

Also look for the upcoming CANFORGEN covering sharing of boots and underware.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (20 Nov 2014)

That would work in theory but each CD is engraved with the members name and rank though......


----------



## cupper (20 Nov 2014)

It's also part of the new security policy. Anyone who shows up in full kit is obviously a Walt.


----------



## MJP (20 Nov 2014)

armourmike said:
			
		

> Its the Supply Chain in Action! :facepalm:
> 
> It would be interesting to know where the issue is. Demand for the CD should be fairly easy to determine (Max Number of recipients + a fudge Factor) so It would seem that the issue is either on the manufacturer's side, or our own supply system.



Or the responsible office never ordered in time.  The supply system for all its weaknesses at the end of the can only order what it is asked to order.  Sup techs don't just write up purchase reqs and LPO doesn't go out and enter into contracts without direction (SOW, SOR, 2227) and permission (Sec 32) from the end users.  I don't know what the issue is but there are a lot of cogs including the CFSS that can delay or hinder a desired item from reaching its intended audience in a timely manner.  Often it is the end user's lack of knowledge of how low and mid level procurement works and the timelines involved.  That the end user doesn't know is a failure of Supply organizations everywhere in giving guidance to their supported unit(s), although in some cases you just can't get through to everyone.


----------



## Tibbson (20 Nov 2014)

Its been all over the news lately that there is a chocolate shortage anticipated so it could be they are trying to source a suitable alterantive filling before they mint more.  Hey, thats an idea...mint filling.


----------



## my72jeep (20 Nov 2014)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> That would work in theory but each CD is engraved with the members name and rank though......


I know just engrave the rank then they can be shuffled with in that rank.


----------



## Towards_the_gap (20 Nov 2014)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> Its been all over the news lately that there is a chocolate shortage anticipated




Caused, in part, by the issuing of the QDJM?


----------



## George Wallace (20 Nov 2014)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> I know just engrave the rank then they can be shuffled with in that rank.



That would solve the problem of freezing Promotions at the twelve year mark.


----------



## SupersonicMax (20 Nov 2014)

MJP said:
			
		

> Or the responsible office never ordered in time.  The supply system for all its weaknesses at the end of the can only order what it is asked to order.  Sup techs don't just write up purchase reqs and LPO doesn't go out and enter into contracts without direction (SOW, SOR, 2227) and permission (Sec 32) from the end users.  I don't know what the issue is but there are a lot of cogs including the CFSS that can delay or hinder a desired item from reaching its intended audience in a timely manner.  Often it is the end user's lack of knowledge of how low and mid level procurement works and the timelines involved.  That the end user doesn't know is a failure of Supply organizations everywhere in giving guidance to their supported unit(s), although in some cases you just can't get through to everyone.



The end user should only have to request and approve an effect.  The rest should be transparent.  Just like a unit requesting air support request an effect (I want to move X pers and Y pallets from A to B on this date), they don't know (and rightfully shouldn't have to) all the steps involved in the background that make it happen.

This CD issue is one that really puzzle me.  At worst, there is a 10-year heads up on the next medal yet, they are handed out 2-3 years later than they shoukd....


----------



## George Wallace (20 Nov 2014)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> This CD issue is one that really puzzle me.  At worst, there is a 10-year heads up on the next medal yet, they are handed out 2-3 years later than they shoukd....



Actually, no.  Not everyone will go to the twelve year mark.  Many leave the CAF between three and eight year marks.  Having a medal stamped ten years in advance and then having to remove engraving or completely reproduce medal is an even bigger waste.  I would think that at the most, they would have a maximum of two year lead time on the production of a CD for presentation.  After a person has reached the twelve year mark, their next presentations will be much simpler, and should face no delays as it is only a ribbon with rosette and a bar for the mounted medal (not an actual presentation of a second/third/fourth CD).  That is where the two to three year delays are really unacceptable.


----------



## SupersonicMax (20 Nov 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Actually, no.  Not everyone will go to the twelve year mark.  Many leave the CAF between three and eight year marks.  Having a medal stamped ten years in advance and then having to remove engraving or completely reproduce medal is an even bigger waste.  I would think that at the most, they would have a maximum of two year lead time on the production of a CD for presentation.  After a person has reached the twelve year mark, their next presentations will be much simpler, and should face no delays as it is only a ribbon with rosette and a bar for the mounted medal (not an actual presentation of a second/third/fourth CD).  That is where the two to three year delays are really unacceptable.



I am not saying that the decorations should be ready when you join but rather making the point that there should be no surprise that a member is entitled to a CD at the 12 year mark...  It should (and could easily) be an automatic process where information from People Soft is fed directly to whoever orders the medals on a monthly basis however many months ahead of time (as required by the supply system) so the CD is awarded ideally within a month of the due date or at least within a year...


----------



## captloadie (20 Nov 2014)

Except the CD isn't automatic for everyone. Peoplesoft doesn't link with your discipinary record as far as I'm aware.


----------



## SupersonicMax (20 Nov 2014)

Worst that can happen is the unit receives the CD and doesn't hand it out immediately.  I see this as better than having the other 99% delayed...


----------



## George Wallace (20 Nov 2014)

Problem is less the production of the CD, as that the person actually completes the required criteria to earn it.  That will not be determined until such time as they fill that criteria.


----------



## George Wallace (20 Nov 2014)

Just to throw out another cause of delays at DHH for the presentation of ANY medal, is the creation of new medals to present that include previous service.  For instance; the Peacekeeping Medal.  When that medal was presented, there was no "Grandfather Clause" as to whom was and whom was not entitled.  Now you have a backlog of Veterans, who have been on UN Peacekeeping missions, and have retired before the implementation of this medal, who are now entitled to wear it.  They must now go through the application process, which then has to be processed and verified by someone at DHH, where TB has no doubt cut the manpower resources available......and on and on.


----------



## McG (20 Nov 2014)

This whole thread started in responce to a statment on an "apparent shortage."  Has anyone established that there really is a shortage and that this is not a preception from within one unit whose CClk and Adjt have failed to order the medals?


----------



## MJP (20 Nov 2014)

MCG said:
			
		

> This whole thread started in responce to a statment on an "apparent shortage."  Has anyone established that there really is a shortage and that this is not a preception from within one unit whose CClk and Adjt have failed to order the medals?



Whoa Whoa Whoa

Stop injecting common sense and logic into the debate.  Useless conjecture and bashing of organizations that one doesn't understand (nor try to) is much easier.


----------



## SupersonicMax (20 Nov 2014)

You are assuming we do not know about the supply system which is, at least in my case, wrong. 

One thing I also know is when a support organization fails to adequately support its customers, it's not doing the job it is meant to do.   Finding excuses and reasons, and not working towards a solution to correct the deficiencies only aggravates the problem.


----------



## MJP (20 Nov 2014)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> You are assuming we do not know about the supply system which is, at least in my case, wrong.



Why do you think I was talking about you?   In general as you have experienced on this site people with limited exposure to certain organizations, their procedures and policies certainly like to dictate how those organizations should run.  When things go wrong site members like to ramp up their rhetoric with little evidence to back up their rants.

For the record by organizations in this case I mean all orgs involved in the CD awarding the process.  While that includes the Supply system, they are merely bit players as the ordering process is relatively simple and at the end of day small potatoes in terms of overall cost.  There are a number of pers and orgs across the board that have the resp to  ensure mbrs recieve their CD in a timely fashion.  Local orgs in my experience have usually been the problem with timely awarding of CDs.  The best I have experienced was 17 Wing Winnipeg which had a very good grip on H&A.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (20 Nov 2014)

#diplomacy


----------



## SupersonicMax (20 Nov 2014)

MJP,

I did say "we" didn't I?

Regardless of the ins and outs of the process to get a deserving member his CD, I think it's fair to say that it is broken (regardless of where it is broken) if most people receive it 2-3 years late...  Passing the buck and finding excuses won't help.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (20 Nov 2014)

I good leader will identify the problem as well as the solution. So SM what's your solution?


----------



## MJP (20 Nov 2014)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> MJP,
> 
> I did say "we" didn't I?



Well you did do that and then went on to talk about yourself, which as a fast air guy we expect


----------



## bald guy (20 Nov 2014)

I waited two years for the second clasp.  When I started to complain about the delay (I love griping) I was informed that there was no contractor for production of CDs.  Hence the delay.


----------



## Rifleman62 (20 Nov 2014)

This is not the first time there has been shortage of CD's or the Bars (if there is a shortage). 

At one time if I remember correctly, there was a manufacturing defect to the Bar as the raised " design" on the Bar was not aligned.

CANFORGEN was send at that time.


----------



## Shamrock (20 Nov 2014)

bald guy said:
			
		

> I waited two years for the second clasp.  When I started to complain about the delay (I love griping) I was informed that there was no contractor for production of CDs.  Hence the delay.



I'm not far from receiving my CD and clasp on the same day.


----------



## captloadie (20 Nov 2014)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> I'm not far from receiving my CD and clasp on the same day.



I saw this just last month where a member received both on parade. This was obviously not a supply issue though.


----------



## cupper (20 Nov 2014)

MJP said:
			
		

> Well you did do that and then went on to talk about yourself, which as a fast air guy we expect



Also know as the Fast Air We. Same as the Royal We, but instead it's implied.  ;D


----------



## eliminator (20 Nov 2014)

I recently received my C.D. about 8 months after qualifying for it. The medals clerk indicated that getting medals weren't the problem, it was the bars.


----------



## Good2Golf (20 Nov 2014)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> MJP,
> 
> I did say "we" didn't I?
> 
> Regardless of the ins and outs of the process to get a deserving member his CD, I think it's fair to say that it is broken (regardless of where it is broken) if most people receive it 2-3 years late...  Passing the buck and finding excuses won't help.



For the 12 year mark (medal, vice clasp), in my experience, the biggest problem is actually the chain of command.  I would rank supply chain notably further down the list of offenders.  Others' experiences may be different, but the CoC most assuredly has the responsibility to be proactive, at the very least, highly reactive/responsive to H&A windows/dates.

Last minute TOA offers is another example of where the CoC bears primary responsibility for shortcomings.  DMilC becomes the TOA default baddy, in the same sense that many take the first easy potshot at the supply system for CDs/H&As.

:2c:

G2G


----------



## SupersonicMax (20 Nov 2014)

Sheep Dog AT said:
			
		

> I good leader will identify the problem as well as the solution. So SM what's your solution?



I tought I offered up at least a hint of solution couple of posts up.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (20 Nov 2014)

Must have missed it


----------



## kratz (20 Nov 2014)

As a clerk, watching the gong show, I was proactive as early as 18 months ahead of my CD. 
9 months and counting after retirement without the CD.
Despite my efforts, the unit would not send the paperwork until my release date.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (21 Nov 2014)

Is that the policy?


----------



## medicineman (21 Nov 2014)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> For the 12 year mark (medal, vice clasp), in my experience, the biggest problem is actually the chain of command.  I would rank supply chain notably further down the list of offenders.  Others' experiences may be different, but the CoC most assuredly has the responsibility to be proactive, at the very least, highly reactive/responsive to H&A windows/dates.
> 
> Last minute TOA offers is another example of where the CoC bears primary responsibility for shortcomings.  DMilC becomes the TOA default baddy, in the same sense that many take the first easy potshot at the supply system for CDs/H&As.
> 
> ...



This is what happens when "Know your subordinates and promote their welfare" is removed from the Principles of Leadership.  Ooops, did I say that out loud...again?

I've been on both sides of the stick for H&A stuff, receiving/being nominated for something and making sure folks got what they were supposed to in a timely fashion.  On one occasion, I was nominated for something, was posted not long after and strangely enough, the paper trail dried up.  I've also had to literally initiate and walk promotion paperwork through the administrative chain to ensure people were promoted on time and under budget because the admin chain wasn't paying attention.  I've had to do the same to ensure folks got their CD's in a reasonable time frame (myself included actually).  With stuff in computer programs up the hoop, not to mention that amount of administrative micromanaging that seems to go on these days, there really isn't any reason for things like this to continue happening.

How many APRV's are done in a given year?  And how many MPRR's are reviewed at each of those?  No reason AT ALL that a CoC should miss out on that CD Due Date thingy that's on that MPRR and start making plans if it's within the next year or less.

 :2c: for what it's worth.

MM


----------



## PuckChaser (21 Nov 2014)

I was due for my CD this June, and was told it cannot be ordered until the day you're eligible. Then of course the only clerk with access to the medal ordering system was posted, and everyone had to wait until the new clerk was in, off leave and had an account.


----------



## OldSolduer (21 Nov 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I was due for my CD this June, and was told it cannot be ordered until the day you're eligible. Then of course the only clerk with access to the medal ordering system was posted, and everyone had to wait until the new clerk was in, off leave and had an account.



When I was awarded the CD in 1986, there was no ordering etc and it came in on time. I received the clasp in 1997 in Bosnia. Again, it was pretty much on time. 

For my second clasp I researched my eligibility and told my Supt Clerk, who ordered it and told me my calculations were wrong....I would have received it later if not for her efforts.

How can something we've been doing since the earth cooled go so far off the rails? Is it the Good Idea Fairy at work again? Or someone in NDHQ have a bright idea?


----------



## navig8ur (21 Nov 2014)

I've been waiting since June 2012 for my CD 2...........crickets

I've prompted the system three times and each time I get more discouraged at how the CAF as an institution is not following through on basic procedures and protocols.


----------



## George Wallace (21 Nov 2014)

Valley Denizen said:
			
		

> I've been waiting since June 2012 for my CD 2...........crickets
> 
> I've prompted the system three times and each time I get more discouraged at how the CAF as an institution is not following through on basic procedures and protocols.



What is your impression of the amalgamation of Admin and Fin Clerks into one trade; RMS?


----------



## McG (21 Nov 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> When I was awarded the CD in 1986, there was no ordering etc and it came in on time. I received the clasp in 1997 in Bosnia. Again, it was pretty much on time.
> 
> For my second clasp I researched my eligibility and told my Supt Clerk, who ordered it and told me my calculations were wrong....I would have received it later if not for her efforts.
> 
> How can something we've been doing since the earth cooled go so far off the rails? Is it the Good Idea Fairy at work again? Or someone in NDHQ have a bright idea?


At one time, the CD was pushed to units from Ottawa based on enrolement dates.  However, the responsible office did not have visibility on things such as conduct sheets and leave without pay.  The result was a lot of medals returned by units for pers who were inelligable.  This was seen as bad, so the push system was replaced with a pull system.  I am not sure how long the pull system has been in place, but suspect at least in the area of a decade.


----------



## MJP (21 Nov 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> What is your impression of the amalgamation of Admin and Fin Clerks into one trade; RMS?



Are you still on that tired beaten horse?   :-*


----------



## George Wallace (21 Nov 2014)

MJP said:
			
		

> Are you still on that tired beaten horse?   :-*



That is one tired beaten horse that will take a long time to be refreshed and in racing form.   ;D


----------



## Danjanou (21 Nov 2014)

I guess we could always confiscate this guy's CD and reissue it? I'd bet a couple of beers there is no name etc engraved on it







 8)



.... Too soon?


----------



## SupersonicMax (21 Nov 2014)

MCG said:
			
		

> At one time, the CD was pushed to units from Ottawa based on enrolement dates.  However, the responsible office did not have visibility on things such as conduct sheets and leave without pay.  The result was a lot of medals returned by units for pers who were inelligable.  This was seen as bad, so the push system was replaced with a pull system.  I am not sure how long the pull system has been in place, but suspect at least in the area of a decade.



All the required information is available on the MPRR.  It even has a specific section on CD Forecast.  It includes information like: eligible date, deferred date, which CD is due, LWOP/LOP, Forfeited days, Forfeiture for AWOL, Forfeiture for civil custody, etc.  Everything is calculated.   There is no need to have many layers of administration and approvals.  A simple script could pull all this info out of People Soft at regular interval and early enough to get the CDs for members in time.  We are almost in 2015 and sometimes is puzzles me how little automation we have in a lot of our processes...


----------



## dapaterson (21 Nov 2014)

Institutionally we resist change with a vengeance.  Much of our HR is still a 1950s paper transactions based system with some small amount of automation, and just about zero trust in the ability of individuals to input data themselves.

About a year from now the first release of the update to HRMS is scheduled to occur, and it should bring some modest improvements in automation.  Of course, that assumes that we won't have COs and clerks making up their own rules and ordering people to print screen captures and sign them as "proof" of a transaction, because somewhere in the furry reaches of their brain the idea is wedged that it's not real if it's not on a piece of paper somewhere.


----------



## George Wallace (21 Nov 2014)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> .........  We are almost in 2015 and sometimes is puzzles me how little automation we have in a lot of our processes...



With the advent of all this technology, it was forcast that this was supposed to make us a paperless society.  It has actually increased the paperwork and slowed down the bureaucratic process.  Seems we have become less productive than the projected views on productivity stated at the onset of digitalization.


----------



## blackberet17 (21 Nov 2014)

MCG said:
			
		

> This whole thread started in responce to a statment on an "apparent shortage."  Has anyone established that there really is a shortage and that this is not a preception from within one unit whose CClk and Adjt have failed to order the medals?



I have it on good knowledge from my CClrk's best friend's cousin, who works at DHH and is dating the guy who stamps the requests for issue, who said he heard from his rec hockey league's third-string goalie's girlfriend's mother's aunt, that there's a shortage.


----------



## medicineman (21 Nov 2014)

blackberet17 said:
			
		

> I have it on good knowledge from my CClrk's best friend's cousin, who works at DHH and is dating the guy who stamps the requests for issue, who said he heard from his rec hockey league's third-string goalie's girlfriend's mother's aunt, that there's a shortage.



:rofl:

MM


----------



## Navy_Pete (21 Nov 2014)

Kind of  ff topic:

I had a guy working for me that when he showed up in Ottawa was three years overdue for his second clasp.

After months of trying to push the paperwork around, arguing with someone in the CFSU that a lost report wasn't required (for months)... it turns out it was sitting in a box somewhere in Halifax and had never been issued.  :facepalm:

Think there were a few errors along the way, but would have thought someone in his divisional chain would have done something in the previous two or three years when it was AWOL.  Not sure how common something like that is, but no one really seemed surprised.

 :2c:  Sometimes I think people blame the 'supply system' or another system when they drop the ball.  See it happen all the time when people complain there is a shortage of parts, that they never put in a demand for, or returned the broken ones so they could be R&Od so replacements would be avail.


----------



## Tibbson (21 Nov 2014)

He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.


----------



## cupper (21 Nov 2014)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.



So much for the concept of "recognition". : :facepalm:


----------



## ModlrMike (21 Nov 2014)

Mine was a little over two years late, and they screwed up my dates on my MPRR. As I'm not going to be getting a third award, I don't really care.


----------



## Tibbson (21 Nov 2014)

cupper said:
			
		

> So much for the concept of "recognition". : :facepalm:



I think recognition of our members is something that, on the whole, we do poorly.  Many times we talk a good game about it and thankfully there are some Units who make an effort but overall I think we could do a better job and issues around the CD just reinforce my opinion.


----------



## medicineman (22 Nov 2014)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.



That reeks of bone idleness on the part of both the CoC and the Admin Chain...are you going to write yourself up for and apply for your own VC, MSC, MMM, etc?  Of course not...well hope not anyway (seen stranger things happen).  The only time I was told to "apply" for a medal was my OSM (Haiti) for OP HALO - and all that entailed was going to the designated medals clerk in the OR to verify my MPRR so that I'd be awarded it sometime before my best before date or retirement date, whichever came first.

Goes back to my previous statement about know your personnel and promote their welfare.

MM


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## Edward Campbell (22 Nov 2014)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.




That was most certainly _not the case_ when, over 30 years ago, I was a CO. Before computers my adjutant and superintending clerk used a very good paper calendar system to track and action CDs, promotions, courses, and, and, and ... for hundreds of soldiers with an annual 'turnover' of 150_ish_. Our 'paper' system worked ... it just took a wee, tiny modicum of _*command and staff responsibility*_.

In my own experience I never, not even once (not even that silly peacekeeping medal they gave out post my retirement) applied for anything. The system discovered, usually without the aid of computers, that I was due/entitled to this, that or the other course or pay raise or even gong.

It isn't a supply problem; it's a f___ing *people* problem: people like the officers and NCOs in ships, units, bases and HQs.


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## Grunt_031 (22 Nov 2014)

> It isn't a supply problem; it's a f___ing people problem: people like the officers and NCOs in ships, units, bases and HQs.



I concur.

For my CD. I was posted in Calgary 1996 at the time with 1VP. It was already 2 years after my CD date. I received a call from Base HQ asking that they had my CD but they were unsure of which unit I was in. I told them and the they said they would sent it to Bn right away.  We moved to Edmonton in 1997 and still nothing. In 1999, my CSM informed me that I would be receiving my CD at the Xmas dinner. He said that when they shut down the Base OR in Calgary they found a drawer full of medals that had be forgotten.

For my Peacekeeping Medal. The Bn was doing their presentation medal when another Sgt and I were tasked to the States to work with a National Guard Unit. We were to received our medals on return. When we got back, we were told that they were short some medals and gave them to other members. It was 5 years until I received mine.  And when I got it, it had another members name on it (the presentation box).


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## NavyShooter (22 Nov 2014)

I am now (as of 3 weeks ago) due for my Clasp.

I have my doubts that the H&A unit rep (who's actually my boss) has done anything with this...


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## Navy_Pete (22 Nov 2014)

Just curious, whenever I have anyone working for me, I was tracking stuff like when CDs are due along with the normal divisional items like progress on OJTs, career courses etc.  Is that not the norm?  I thought that's the entire point of having a divisional system, in that you're responsible for your people.  Pretty easy as the most I had was about 45, with a few direct supervisors in between, but still.


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## ModlrMike (22 Nov 2014)

That's the crux of it Pete. The Divisional System is only as good as the folks using it. People are always the weakest link in any system.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Nov 2014)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> People are always the weakest link in any system.



You only say that because you never had to sail in a 40 years old and + ship or a 50 years old or + Sea King.


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## SeaKingTacco (22 Nov 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> You only say that because you never had to sail in a 40 years old and + ship or a 50 years old or + Sea King.



QFTT  

Seriously, when the entire message of the CF currently seems to be "Rush people through the menial, unit level jobs so that they can become awesome staff functionaries", what the hell did we think would happen to leadership at the lowest level (or all levels, for that matter)?


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## Navalsnpr (26 Nov 2014)

NS, best option is to go to the SHO and have them order it. Any clerk with MAPS access would be able to submit the application.. It will take up to 6 months to receive the clasp at the unit after the application is accepted.



			
				NavyShooter said:
			
		

> I am now (as of 3 weeks ago) due for my Clasp.
> 
> I have my doubts that the H&A unit rep (who's actually my boss) has done anything with this...


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Nov 2014)

Once I rejoined the Reserves, I got tired of the absolute fuckery needed to get my proper decorations issued.

I took it on myself to apply through online applications. I didn't have to wait more than three months to have both delivered to my home mailbox.

The unit bitched, I denied why they appeared in my mailbox, the unit issued them, to me, a week after I gave the medals to them.

Groveling hosers. When a unit says no dice, can't get it for a year or so, and I can get it in three weeks by applying online, pretending I'm retired, why the fuck can't a unit make it happen in a timely matter?


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## Edward Campbell (27 Nov 2014)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Once I rejoined the Reserves, I got tired of the absolute fuckery needed to get my proper decorations issued.
> 
> I took it on myself to apply through online applications. I didn't have to wait more than three months to have both delivered to my home mailbox.
> 
> ...




I repeat:



			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> ...
> It isn't a supply problem; it's a f___ing *people* problem: people like the officers and NCOs in ships, units, bases and HQs.
> ...


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## misratah500 (8 May 2015)

I heard from people on the recent ILQ in St Jean that the people who do our medals have had their positions cut from 5 to 2 and the medals are starting to get backed up for engraving or shipping or something like that. Has anyone heard anything on this?


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## Tibbson (8 May 2015)

Thats been an on again off again issue for the 35 years I've been in uniform.  Wouldn't surprize me if its an issue yet again.


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## dimsum (8 May 2015)

....because we don't have any members deployed and will receive medals.  Oh wait...


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## Eye In The Sky (8 May 2015)

No word yet for IMPACT if they are coming up with anything new or going with the GCS - EXP and GSM - EXP.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=GCS_EXP

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=GSM_EXP


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## Eagle_Eye_View (8 May 2015)

I've been awaiting for my CD (again nothing new) because there's none left in the system.


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## dapaterson (8 May 2015)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> No word yet for IMPACT if they are coming up with anything new or going with the GCS - EXP and GSM - EXP.
> 
> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=GCS_EXP
> 
> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=GSM_EXP



I believe the committee that makes recommendations for such things is meeting next month; it would not surprise me if this was on the agenda.


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## George Wallace (8 May 2015)

TB said:
			
		

> I've been awaiting for my CD (again nothing new) because there's none left in the system.



Nothing new is correct.  It is not uncommon to wait a year or two for your CD, and the same for each Bar as time passes.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 May 2015)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I believe the committee that makes recommendations for such things is meeting next month; it would not surprise me if this was on the agenda.



Rog that.  Seems like all they need to do is add to the eligibility criteria for the GSM for the IMPACT folks and voila...done.


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## dimsum (8 May 2015)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Nothing new is correct.  It is not uncommon to wait a year or two for your CD, and the same for each Bar as time passes.



I'm on 3 years, and had to re-submit my application again (third time's the charm?) just a few months ago.  Not sure why that medal isn't automatic based on MPRR.


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## George Wallace (8 May 2015)

They expect you to do jail time before your 12.   >


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## cupper (8 May 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I'm on 3 years, and had to re-submit my application again (third time's the charm?) just a few months ago.  Not sure why that medal isn't automatic based on MPRR.



They will probably give it to you when you get your 1st bar. ;D


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## jollyjacktar (8 May 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I'm on 3 years, and had to re-submit my application again (third time's the charm?) just a few months ago.  Not sure why that medal isn't automatic based on MPRR.



I'm sure being a "loaner or rental" hasn't made it any easier on the system to respond either.  

My CD was about a year overdue, however, my CD1 arrived on time and I expect the CD2 will arrive on time next year as well.  I have faith...  Although, I had to order and do the paperwork for my initial issue GCS/SWA.  The bar arrived without too much fuss when they were initiated.  The OSM/EXP took it's bloody time though...  All in all I suppose, it's not been too bad.


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## RedcapCrusader (8 May 2015)

A family friend of mine had to get creative, he too waited 2 years for his CD and was to take a leading role in a very large-scale parade (I believe it was a Change of Command). So what did he do? Borrowed his older brother's CD and wore that for every parade until he received his.  


(so find a buddy, and alternate days of wear  ;D)


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## Eye In The Sky (8 May 2015)

Without the benefit of a ref to include, I believe the CD is not supposed to be worn, or undress ribbon, until officially presented.

IIRC you are allowed to wear certain ribbons prior to the medal being presented.  But not the CD.  I waited close to 1.5 years for my clasp & bar, like most seem to be.


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## geo (9 May 2015)

Been out for a year, and I was 1 yr past due for my last clasp when I punched out.... Figure I'll get it in the mail sometime in the next 8 years....


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## TN935 (17 Jul 2015)

i did hear that the press that makes the CD was broken for some time, which caused a huge back log in production.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2015)

TN935 said:
			
		

> i did hear that the press that makes the CD was broken for some time, which caused a huge back log in production.



To begin with, most things like medals are stamped out from a die. It's the die that goes into the press. The press itself is seldom unique and the die would fit many different presses. One breaks, you move the die to another press. Otherwise, you'd have a press for each medal in our Canadian Honours chart.

The explanation given by you does not explain why the backlog of clasps is the same as the medal.

I challenge you to go back to your source and ask them where they got their info. You'll likely find it's pure conjecture.

There is also a complete discussion thread available on this site as to the reason(s). 

http://army.ca/forums/threads/116990/post-1339089.html#msg1339089

Threads merged


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## Danjanou (17 Jul 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> They will probably give it to you when you get your 1st bar. ;D



You were on that parade as well eh.  8)


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## dangerboy (30 May 2016)

Wondering if anyone has a more current link for this reference? The libnk below is no longer valid and I am having no luck finding its replacement.  Thanks



			
				Shamrock said:
			
		

> Found it (edit: apparently, well after aerobicrunner had, so I should just call it a night):
> 
> APM-245 chapter 18 (viewable at http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/DHRIM/mhrrp/Ch18/engraph/ch18_e.pdf)
> 
> ...


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## MMSS (30 May 2016)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Wondering if anyone has a more current link for this reference? The libnk below is no longer valid and I am having no luck finding its replacement.  Thanks



http://upkprod.desc.mil.ca/hrmsp/eng/data/toc.html



> Forfeiture
> 
> Every day of forfeiture shall be added to the member’s CNCSD.
> 
> ...


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## NavalMoose (18 Sep 2017)

Does anyone have any idea of the wait time to receive their CD 1 or CD 2 ?  It's been almost 2 years since qualifying...just wondering.


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Sep 2017)

I waited about 1.5 for a bar.   Have you verified with your medals clerk that it has been indented for in MAPS?


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## NavalMoose (18 Sep 2017)

I did talk to a clerk last year and he sent something off.  MAPS?


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## CountDC (18 Sep 2017)

MAPS is correct and if it was sent last year I suggest going to see your clerk and ask for an update.  We had a handful that were requested but never filled until I queried why we hadn't received them yet.  They were sitting in the system still waiting for someone to action.  Within a month or two of each query I received the CDs for the members.  The clasp shouldn't even take that long as there is no printing involved.


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## Halifax Tar (18 Sep 2017)

CountDC said:
			
		

> MAPS is correct and if it was sent last year I suggest going to see your clerk and ask for an update.  We had a handful that were requested but never filled until I queried why we hadn't received them yet.  They were sitting in the system still waiting for someone to action.  Within a month or two of each query I received the CDs for the members.  The clasp shouldn't even take that long as there is no printing involved.



Is this same for all medals ?  I mean timeline wise...  Just wondering if I should expect my SSM in time for Nov 11th...


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Sep 2017)

NavalMoose said:
			
		

> I did talk to a clerk last year and he sent something off.  MAPS?



MAPS is the program Medals...HR Admins (are they still called Medals Clerks?) use to put requests for medals in and track them.


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## NavalMoose (18 Sep 2017)

I was also told that they had to wait until a certain amount were requested before they would do them....but it's only a bar and rosette, so I think that is baloney.  The fact remains though it's almost two years...I will enquire to see if there is any progress.


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## dapaterson (18 Sep 2017)

When requested they are processed reasonably quickly.  When the request is initiated in MAPS and not completed by the requesting unit, then it takes a long time.

EDIT to add:

The process, as I understand it:

AT UNIT
1. Clerk initiates request in MAPS;
2. CO signs off, certifying entitlement;
3. Clerk inputs CO's certification;

AT DH&R
4. Some level of verification of above;
5. Medal / Bar etc prepped and sent to unit;

AT UNIT
6. Medal / Bar etc sits in filing cabinet for several months waiting for parade;
7. APS occurs;
8. Two years later, someone cleans out filing cabinet and asks "Anyone remember who this Bloggins character was"?


(Steps 6-8 may not be exactly as described).


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## MPwannabe (27 Nov 2017)

I’m releasing before I’m being given my CD. I was originally eligible for it in August. I was wondering how I would go about getting it mailed to me?

Thanks


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## Blackadder1916 (27 Nov 2017)

Try here.

http://forces.gc.ca/en/honours-history-awards/replacement-service-medals.page


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## NavalMoose (7 Feb 2018)

Maybe a "medals clerk" can answer this. Where is the information gathered from to confirm eligibility for the CD2. I ask because recently I asked my OR if there was any info on my CD2 which was due in Dec 2015(I know it takes forever, but after 2 years I thought I would just ask) I was told there was a problem because my "hire" date was April 1990. I was granted 6 years 135 days of PFTPS because of RN time and that is on my MPRR as is the base date for CD of Nov 1983 and Dec 2005 for CD1 which were both received with no problem.  Why is there a problem now when the relevant information is already on my MPRR? My OR said I should have a Res F MPRR for those 6 years.  I was never in any Reserve Force but even if I was that 6 years is in my Monitor MASS (as Res F for some reason)so the time is there. Is someone just reading a part of my MPRR and ignoring the other parts, makes me wonder.


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## jollyjacktar (7 Feb 2018)

My Militia time counted straight time towards the CD.  Not so with the pension calculations, that took a serious boot to the guts.  My Militia time doesn't appear on my MPRR, just the CD calculations which take it into account.

Maybe they're misreading or not reading your MPRR correctly.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (7 Feb 2018)

CD's are straight time from enrolment plus (as in NavalMoose case's) any "granted" anterior time. Regular or primary reserve service is irrelevant: They both count as full time towards the CD. The only exception is any time spent of the supplementary reserve does not accrue. But that's it.


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## NavalMoose (7 Feb 2018)

There was no problem having the RN time accepted but why did the OR have to pull my PERS file to verify when the info is already on my MPRR? Is the MPRR not a valid source of info or do they think it was tampered with by a non clerk with dark motives? It's laughable and also sad....pathetic even.


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## dapaterson (7 Feb 2018)

Because they want to be certain things are entered properly?  Because it's an unusual situation and the chief clerk was using it to educate other clerks?  Because clerks are verify lots of things in advance of the eventual roll out of the Guardian system?


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## jollyjacktar (7 Feb 2018)

WTF is the Guardian.  Sounds Phoenix-ish to my ears... :Tin-Foil-Hat:


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## mariomike (7 Feb 2018)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> WTF is the Guardian.



Guardian is coming - New Human Resource Management System for the CAF  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/126609.0


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## jollyjacktar (7 Feb 2018)

:trainwreck:

I'm a little jaded as of late.


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## Pusser (7 Feb 2018)

NavalMoose said:
			
		

> Maybe a "medals clerk" can answer this. Where is the information gathered from to confirm eligibility for the CD2. I ask because recently I asked my OR if there was any info on my CD2 which was due in Dec 2015(I know it takes forever, but after 2 years I thought I would just ask) I was told there was a problem because my "hire" date was April 1990. I was granted 6 years 135 days of PFTPS because of RN time and that is on my MPRR as is the base date for CD of Nov 1983 and Dec 2005 for CD1 which were both received with no problem.  Why is there a problem now when the relevant information is already on my MPRR? My OR said I should have a Res F MPRR for those 6 years.  I was never in any Reserve Force but even if I was that 6 years is in my Monitor MASS (as Res F for some reason)so the time is there. Is someone just reading a part of my MPRR and ignoring the other parts, makes me wonder.



I think someone in your OR is confused.  There should be no issue with this at all.  Service in ANY of Her Majesty's forces is eligible for the award of the CD unless it has already been counted toward another award.  If you've already been awarded a CD and the first clasp, then the 2nd clasp should come at the next 10 year anniversary.  Unfortunately, ORs are not always on top of this, so it's not a bad idea for a member to remind them on the day.  Then, there's the possibility that you've been naughty...


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## Navy_Pete (7 Feb 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Guardian is coming - New Human Resource Management System for the CAF
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/126609.0



There have been a number of updates on the ADM(Mat) side about that. Reading those, it's a software upgrade of HRMS to the 9.0 version (from 7.something). In theory, it's just a new version of the same software, but I still find word 5.0 easier to use than office 2017, so...

None of it is related to our pay system as near as I can tell which is good, but expect there may be some glitches as they roll the HRMS over for updates.  Did a print of my MPRR recently for insurance but I have far more faith in DND IT projects than I do in SSC or PSPC after doing the Phoenix training courses and seeing the ludicrous work flows they have poorly implemented. We generally do a good job with project roll out plans, and I think there is massive scrutiny for any IT project rollout now given what a flaming paper bag phoenix has been.


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## jollyjacktar (7 Feb 2018)

Yes, but then there's DRP and DRMIS.  Neither of which are totally useful or user friendly.  At least Monitor Mass has smoothed out, but l understand they're going to roll that into DRMIS too.   :facepalm:


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## ModlrMike (7 Feb 2018)

Oh yea!


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## dapaterson (7 Feb 2018)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> There have been a number of updates on the ADM(Mat) side about that. Reading those, it's a software upgrade of HRMS to the 9.0 version (from 7.something). In theory, it's just a new version of the same software, but I still find word 5.0 easier to use than office 2017, so...
> 
> None of it is related to our pay system as near as I can tell which is good, but expect there may be some glitches as they roll the HRMS over for updates.  Did a print of my MPRR recently for insurance but I have far more faith in DND IT projects than I do in SSC or PSPC after doing the Phoenix training courses and seeing the ludicrous work flows they have poorly implemented. We generally do a good job with project roll out plans, and I think there is massive scrutiny for any IT project rollout now given what a flaming paper bag phoenix has been.



It's ADM(IM), not ADM(Mat) that's doing the upgrade.  And there are parts of the pay system driven by information in HRMS; I've heard that the end-to-end pay testing has identified areas that need fixing before they can go live - and has also identified problems in the current, live systems.

But unlike certain other pay systems, it's nice to know that there's proper testing and evaluation being done in advance of launching.


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## CountDC (8 Feb 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> When requested they are processed reasonably quickly.  When the request is initiated in MAPS and not completed by the requesting unit, then it takes a long time.
> 
> EDIT to add:
> 
> ...



Close.  The unit has to send off a hard copy of the paperwork signed by the CO to DH&R before they will action.  

Guardian is a move from peoplesoft 7.5 (military) and 8.9 (civilian) to 9.5.  it is very different looking with the traditional jargon change and has gone through (and still is undergoing) extensive testing.  My understanding is that they plan to do a stages release.  With stage one they will keep the old system ready just in case there is a major issue and need to revert back (maybe lesson learned from phoenix?). Last I had is the pay module is planned for 2020.


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## MSuff (24 Oct 2019)

Afternoon,

Backstory - I spent 12 years and 5 months in the Army and retired back in April. I was reg force the entire time but released out of a reserve unit where I was posted last. All of my retirement documentation says CD on it but no one ever actually ordered me the medal. I have talked to my old OR about this and they said that because i'm retired I have to go through the higher command which is in this case Toronto. They have tried to contact someone there and I have tried to contact someone but we get no email replies and unanswered phone calls. 

So my question is, has anyone gone through something like this before and if so how did you go about getting your medal ordered? 

Thanks


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## dapaterson (24 Oct 2019)

Try: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/af-fd/index-eng.asp

Directorate of Honours and Recognition
Contact the Directorate of Honours and Recognition to apply for a replacement or initial issue medal for retired or deceased Forces members.

Medal application form
For all questions about individual honours:

Directorate of Honours and Recognition
National Defence Headquarters
101 Colonel By Dr
Ottawa ON  K1A 0K2

By phone: 1-877-741-8332 (toll free Mon-Fri 8 am to 4 pm Eastern Time)

By email: medals-medailles@forces.gc.ca


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