# Navy Logistics Officer/Navy Health Care Admin officer



## naija143 (21 Sep 2010)

Hi all,

hopefully I can get some guidance and answers to my questions concerning the two naval positions I am interested in.

I have prior CF experience. I have done IAP/BOTP, language training, and 2 opme courses as well. 

My list of questions are as follows:

Que 1- I could not find the the total length of phase training for navy log o or Navy HCA officer. Does anyone have an idea how long it would take for both to be trade qualified in order to be promoted Lt (N)

Que 2: I have a MBA, would I get any credits towards my phase training courses?


Que 3: In terms of career promotions which of the two trades is a better fit to move up in rank?


Que 4: How often is one deployed on a ship a year, apart from a six month deployment. (Logistics Officer and HCA officer)


Que 5: I heard HCA officers have to do online courses for 9 months, not sure if it is true. If so can I be posted to a base for   
            OJT?

Que 6: What is the life of a naval HCA officer like? I have seen recruiting videos on what an army HCA officer does on an army
             base but not a naval base which ties in with my next question if HCA naval officers are posted to ships as well 

Que 7: With my MBA degree, is the starting CF salary comparable to civi street? ( I have over 5 years of financial and 
             management experience).


I have called the recruiting centre and could not get an answer to my questions hence the post here. Hopefully someone who has gone through the phase training process and is working can give me an insight. Thanks again and I look forward to your posts


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## Blackadder1916 (21 Sep 2010)

> Que 4: How often is one deployed on a ship a year, apart from a six month deployment. (Logistics Officer and HCA officer)



For HCA - NEVER;   HCAs do not get posted to ships.



> Que 6: What is the life of a naval HCA officer like? I have seen recruiting videos on what an army HCA officer does on an army base but not a naval base which ties in with my next question if HCA naval officers are posted to ships as well



It is exactly the same whether in army, navy or air force uniform.  The uniform of a HCA has no bearing on where they will be posted.  In all likelihood, the first posting of a HCA will be (should be) to a field ambulance, simply because that is the only type of CF medical unit in which there is the opportunity for an untrained junior officer to be properly developed.  The last time a HCA was posted to a ship was when the "Bonnie" was in service (and they were not called HCAs back 4+ decades ago).


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## ModlrMike (21 Sep 2010)

I'll answer what I can and wait for an HCA or LogO to chime in:

1. As a direct entry with prior service you MIGHT be recruited as a Lt(N).

2. Perhaps on the Log side.

3. Promotion is more about the individual. That being said with Log being a bigger branch with more competition, HCA MIGHT move faster.

4. Deployment to sea depends on the Navy's operational tempo. HCA's generally don't go to sea, in fact I don't know of a single HCA sailing billet. A LogO will go as a junior ship's officer (Supply O or similar) and then again as a department head. Expect to be away 8-9 months per year.

5. Don't know.

6. Naval HCA is really just a uniform distinction. You will likely find yourself posted to a Fd Amb to start and then carry on from there.

7. Without knowing what the civilian salary is, it's hard to make a comparison.

These answers are based solely on my experience, and may not be completely accurate. Your best source of info is still the recruiting center.


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## Pusser (21 Sep 2010)

I can comment on this from the Log side.

1.  Unless you were already a Lt(N) before leaving the first time and are still current, I would not count on getting back in as anything higher than an A/SLt.  All the formal training (phase, environmental, language, etc) to become a Sea Log officer will take about a year, depending on gaps between courses and other factors.  This is followed by an "apprenticeship" as the assistant logistics officer in a ship for about one year, after which you will have to sit and pass a board of senior naval logisticians and a ship's captain.  Most sea log officers will be promoted to Lt(N) during the tour at sea as the assistant logistics officer.

2.  An MBA will not give you any credit towards phase training.  It will, however, determine what rate of pay you receive on entry (it's based on education).  It will also give you potential points down the road when you are being considered for promotion to senior officer.  An MBA is mostly about strategic level thinking, while phase training is more tactical level.

3.  A larger branch (Logistics is the largest in the CF) usually means more opportunities for promotion.  Some smaller branches have almost no movement at the senior levels.

4.  Six month deployments in ships are not that common.  Usually only one ship at a time is gone on one.  For the most part, expect to gone for 60 days, then home for 60 days, with a few shorter trips mixed in.  

5.  I can't comment on Question 5.

6.  HCAs  do not go to sea.  In fact, whereas Sea Log officers will never be posted to an army unit (other than so-called "joint" units, which are technically not army, but really are, but that's a topic for another thread).  The same cannot be said for HCAs.  The medical folks go wherever they're needed, regardless of uniform.  Log officers can also go wherever they're needed, but generally, if they're not army trained, they will be restricted to HQ jobs and not be placed in hardcore army jobs.

7.  The pay scale is what it is.  As either a log officer or an HCA, you would be a general service officer and would paid at the appropriate level for your entry plan.  Take a look at a recruiting website for current rates and compare those to what you would be getting as an MBA.  A word of caution though - don't get your hopes up.  You would likely fall somewhere on the lower side of the $40-$70K  range.


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## naija143 (21 Sep 2010)

Wow, many thanks to Pusser, ModlrMike and Blackadder1916. This is more than I thought I would get from my thread. You guys rock!!     

It would be nice if the recruiters were as informative as you guys. It would make it more easier on choosing a career path in the CF. Hopefully others would visit this thread and find this information useful has well. I hope I get more posts.Again thanks again guys.

I do have one question though. It is about navy logistics. What is this  board a navy log o has to sit and pass and What does it entail? It sounds pretty intimidating standing in front of Snr navy log o's and a Capt (N). If someone fails this board what happens after that. Like in regular training you get 3 kicks at the can, is it the same with the board or is it a one time deal to hit the ball out of the park? Sounds intense if you ask me


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2010)

naija143 said:
			
		

> Like in regular training you get 3 kicks at the can,



Who ever said that you get 3 kicks at anything ?


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## Pusser (22 Sep 2010)

The Navy loves its boards.  I don't know whether the Army or the Air Force do them, but if they do, certainly not as much as we do.  In the seagoing Navy, boards are a very dominating fact of life (MARS and NTO have them as well).  Are they intimidating?  They certainly can be, but so is explaining to the Captain why he can't launch the helicopter because the parts that should have arrived in the last port simply didn't.

The Sea Logistics Qualification Board  consists of a Chairman (the Director Maritime Materiel Operational Support - DMMOS) who is a Capt(N) and several members (usually commanders) who are chosen for their areas of expertise in finance, supply and food services.  Another member will be a current or recently finished ship's captain (usually also a commander).  The Board normally takes about three hours, including a 15-30 minute nervous pee break.  The first half will be normally be general short answer questions in all areas of logistics.  The second half will see the candidate given detailed scenarios of logistical problems or issues and he/she will be expected to outline his/her thought and planning process in tackling them.

In days past, the Board was a very subjective  process and whether one passed or failed was a result of how the Chairman "felt" about the candidate.  Today it is much more objective and each board member gives the candidate a score based on his/her performance.  The Chairman still has the final say, but he/she has something a lot more objective than "gut feel' to work with.  The questions can be complex and will require some thought (i.e. don't just regurgitate some answer), but there are no tricks.  If you've done all the preparation you should have, the only thing that will cause you to fail will be your own presence of mind (what we sometimes call "boardsmanship").  You must exhibit confidence and a willingness to make a decision.  If you waffle and try to guess your way through, you will fail.

Failure is not the end of the world.  Normally, you would be sent back to your ship for additional experience and be allowed to challenge the Board again a few months later.  Although some candidates have been sent away from their first attempt with orders to change uniforms and never again darken the Navy's door, that is VERY rare (I only know of one candidate to whom that happened)  Most people get a least one more chance and the list of people who have failed their first attempt and come back to nail it the second time is long and distinguished.  Some have gone on to very senior positions in the Naval Logistics community, including as Chairman of later Boards!

The key to success is to know your stuff to a degree that you can speak with  confidence.  Take full advantage of your "apprenticeship" in order to learn from both your Logistics Officer as well as the Departmental C&POs.  They are a wealth of knowledge in practical problem solving.  The Board will not be satisfied with simple book answers.  It's simply expected that you will know those.  What the Board wants to see is how you will deal with the scenarios they will paint for you.  (Hint: questions like "Is that all?" "Is there anything else?"  "Would you really do that?" should indicate that you need to think about your answer some more).  Although I said there are no tricks in the Board, they will let you run down a rabbit hole to your detriment if you give them the opportunity.  For example, if the question is, "Can the Captain authorize the issue of spirits?" The answer is "Yes, in accordance with the regulations."  Don't then go into the accounting process unless they ask you.  Any superfluous information you spit out gives the Board a chance to question you further and you may look silly if dig yourself in too deep and spit out something wrong.

You will be given plenty of opportunity to prepare for this.  The Formation will hold practice boards prior to your appearance at the "big one" and if you ask, your ship should set up board-like sessions with the section headsa and the LogO to practice with as well.  It's also a good idea to get together with the other candidates in the area to practice and study together.  Just remember that there are plenty of others aroud you who have already been through it and will be more than willing to give you some guidance.

In short, be prepared and you will be fine.


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## ModlrMike (22 Sep 2010)

Nelson is reputed to have failed his first board for Lt... look how that worked out for him.


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## naija143 (23 Sep 2010)

Hi Pusser,

thank you so much for going into detail on how the board works. I now have an excellent picture of both trades to make a career decision and I owe it all to you guys with the great post.

I have found the navy forum very educational on other topics I needed answers on. I hope other members who pass by this thread would also find it very informative as well.

Thanks again to everyone for all your insights. More posts are welcome to help others as well

Naija143


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