# Life in the navy



## Career change (6 May 2008)

Hi, I'm looking for some input/advice.

I'm considering joining the navy and I'm wondering if those who are, or have served what, would be able to say what the three best things you would list about life in this branch of the CF. Also what are the three worst things about a life in the navy?

Any other help or comments would also be appreciated.


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## yak (6 May 2008)

Best things for me: 

1) travel
2) education
3) structure and a set of goals when I was younger.

I joined for probably one of the most common reasons, to get out of a small town and to see the world.  Reason #2 for joining was, for me, the subsidized education in a technical trade (because I wasn't doing a student loan especially since I didn't really know what I wanted).  And looking back now I'd say reason #3 would be that the military provided some much-needed structure for me when I was younger.

Having deployed with the Army and also done my fair share of sea time, I would say that sometimes the arms-length way of operating while on a ship might be a little...well, harder to take for someone who wants to be in the middle of things.  I mean, searching ships in the Persian Gulf is not going to command your attention like driving through Kandahar City.  But they are both important, in their own way, but the pulse-quickening times are further apart on a ship.

Three worst things about life in the Navy:

1) Time away from home...but that's common in for most of us in the military.  In my case, it was a major contributor to the breakup of a marriage, and now it's especially hard since we had our first child a few months ago (and I was deployed at the time).  So if you decide to put on the uniform (any uniform) be ready for lots of time away.
2) Routine on a ship can be pretty mind-numbing.
3) Did I mention the time away?

Can't be that bad, I've got 20 years this June and I'm staying around.

Oh...by far the best thing all way round in joining any branch - the people.  I've met some really good people from every branch.  Super professional and committed, there's none better.  I can go anywhere in Canada now for the most part and ring up someone that I've met on a course or deployment and that's awesome.  I can't imagine what it's like to go to the same job for a whole career.


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## Career change (6 May 2008)

Thanks for all the honest opinions. I'm a small town Northern Ontario guy, who wants to see the world too and have a job that allows challenges.
How would you sum up life at sea? The work and the day-to-day life?
How frequent are the port visits? What are they like? do you stay on the ship when in port or elsewhere?


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## jollyjacktar (6 May 2008)

Yak has some very salient points.  Be very prepared for time away, and be aware that you will be stuck on 500 ft of steel with all your shipmates.  It does take some getting used to, but it is possible.  Joining the Navy happened to me after 10 years in a Support Trade.  Now it is 9 1/2 years later and I don't regret my swap.

I enjoy the travel such as I have experienced it.  Being at sea is very pleasant for me being a Prairie Boy, no friggin trees or hills to spoil the view.  Nature does put on the most excellent side shows if you take the time to notice.  Interesting wildlife, sunsets and weather from time to time.

The people amongst the ship's company are also a big plus on the whole.  Good people who I am proud to stand beside and trust with my life.  The people from other places that you will be exposed to is also a plus.  It's a big world out there and worth the effort.

My job.  I'm a Shipwright.  I work with my hands and can see the results of my, and my co-workers efforts at the end of the day.  This job also gave me the chance to go overseas to TFA last year.  It was the hardest work I have ever done physically, but the most rewarding and life changing.  

What ever you decide, Army, Navy, Air Force you won't be disappointed.  This is no 9-5 BS life, every day is different.  You won't find better people anywhere in Canada than those who will stand beside you.  Good luck to you.


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## Ex-Dragoon (6 May 2008)

I can only echo what yak and jolly have already stated. I would also like to add the sense that you are part of something big and might have contributed in a small way to make something a success. I will give you an example I was part of Roto 0 for Op Apollo and going to the Ops Room or going outside and watching countless aircraft launch from carriers to do their sorties into Afghanistan was quite something.


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## MARS (6 May 2008)

Life at sea is fantastic.  It really is.  Jollyjacktar is absolutely right – Mother Nature is at her best at sea.  I have seen the sun set (and not set) and the moon rise in 4 hemispheres.  The aurora borealis and the Southern Cross.  I’ve seen the sea go from flat calm to a wicked and terrifying storm in no time.  Life at sea, from a mariner’s point of view, is sometimes a truly _Awesome _experience.  And I don’t consider myself a mariner.  

Mind-numbing?  Yeah..it can be, from time to time, when nothing is happening.  Sometimes your mission is to simply…patrol.  If everything is quiet on patrol, whatever type it may be, then things are going well.  When things go well, everybody is happy.  Sometimes things go well for days and weeks at a time.  And you are stuck on a floating pop can that’s anywhere from 55 to 172 metres long with a whole bunch of your closest friends.  That can be tough, especially for people who have trouble in small spaces.  But when things go south, they do so quickly and without warning.  It could be 0300 and you go from sound asleep to fully alert on your way to your Action Station or Rescue Station or a variety of other stations in the ship, depending on what has just happened.  Maybe you are going to board another ship, or the engine just blew up or the helicopter just crashed.  Who knows.  My civilian friends can’t even wrap their brains around some of the truly crazy experiences you can have at sea.  They work 9-5 in an office (says the guy who currently works 9-5 in an office  ) Really – there is no life like it.  I happen to love it.

Everyone tries to make day to day life as interesting as possible.  There is a lot to be done – from training to operations; from the mundane to the unique.  From cleaning the ship to fuelling at sea to giving a lecture to firing the guns to rescuing somebody – all before the sun sets.  Seriously, every day _can_ be different from the one before, but it takes effort.  Having a solid Ship’s Company is really key.  A great mix of committed, energetic and involved people can make any deployment tolerable.  Except for the weather.  Yeah, a bad storm can wreck your day, regardless how large of a ship you are on.  You deal with it.  You think about what it must have been like for sailors before enclosed bridges and watertight seals.  You _have_ to deal with it – if you are too far out at sea to anchor and ride it out, or too slow to outrun the weather, what are you going to do?  

Leaving home and loved ones is always hard.  That’s not unique to the Navy – we all do that.  But like Ex-Dragoon said, knowing that you are going out to do some good in the world, no matter how small – that matters.  My most memorable moments in my life have been at sea.  I have rescued people from the sea – holy crap! Can you imagine what that’s like?  I couldn’t until I did it.  The first time, it happened to have been one of my previous instructors - a superior officer and mentor - after a bad, 18 hour storm – their boat was wrecked, their mast and communications shot – quite an emotional event for everyone.  Will never forget that or the people I was with.  Since then, 7 more people.  Each time was important – to those people, certainly.  That’s just my experience.  Others on this board have contributed to the greater good in far more significant ways.

Port visits could be a thread all its own.  I remember most of mine.  Some are too long, some too short.  For the most part, it is like the old saying goes – “see the world”.  I saw a good chunk of it before by the time I was 20.  Depends on where you stop and what you are doing.  Maybe you have a curfew in that port, so yes, you “live” on the ship.  Perhaps it is a short port visit, on the way out for a deployment, so maybe you work while the ship is in port.  Maybe it is a more friendly port and you are there for rest and relaxation.  Then yes, you get to see the world from a “tourist” point of view.  We do our jobs at sea, so, generally speaking, you get _some_ time to “see the world”.

Well, you asked and I answered.  That’s a snippet of one guy’s take on life at sea.  Life in the _Navy_ is a whole lot more broad.  Again, others here with a whole lot more experience than I have.

My question to you is: why the Navy in particular?  I only ask because life in all three elements is vastly different, each with its own lifestyles, challenges and rewards.  If there is something specific about the Navy that appeals to you, it will help others on this board structure their advice.

Cheers,

MARS


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## Career change (7 May 2008)

My question to you is: why the Navy in particular? I only ask because life in all three elements is vastly different, each with its own lifestyles, challenges and rewards. If there is something specific about the Navy that appeals to you, it will help others on this board structure their advice.

====

I guess I'm attracted to the Navy because of the travel aspect. It seems like there would plenty of chances to "see the world" and work at the same time. Also, the challenges of working/living at sea and the knowledge that's needed. And also the sense of "family" or "friendship" I get from others who have served in the Navy. Those are the top factors and I'm looking to hear from those who have served to find out what it's really like.


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## dimsum (7 May 2008)

Career change said:
			
		

> I guess I'm attracted to the Navy because of the travel aspect. It seems like there would plenty of chances to "see the world" and work at the same time. Also, the challenges of working/living at sea and the knowledge that's needed. And also the sense of "family" or "friendship" I get from others who have served in the Navy. Those are the top factors and I'm looking to hear from those who have served to find out what it's really like.



Being part of an Helicopter Air Det would fit all those as well...and you don't have to stand those pesky watches!   ;D


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## Ex-Dragoon (7 May 2008)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Being part of an Helicopter Air Det would fit all those as well...and you don't have to stand those pesky watches!   ;D



Nice try but in Foreign Port they stand Duty Air Officer or Duty Air Crew


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## Sub_Guy (7 May 2008)

True but in home port they do not!   Duty aircrew in a foreign port is not a bad deal at all, rotation is pretty good compared to others.


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## Ex-Dragoon (7 May 2008)

That they don't but how often does a ship see its Air Crew until they are ready to sail?


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## Sub_Guy (7 May 2008)

With most air detachment logging more sea days than than most sailors, they are a busy bunch.  Collecting sea pay, aircrew pay is a good deal for those folks.   They show up when the ship sails (if it has a MH attached), then head back to the sqn when the ship returns.

Some could think that the home port duty watches are a negative, especially if the rotation is less than 1 in 10.   Life in the Navy can be good, but I think its better if you are part of an Air Det.


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## WrenchBender (7 May 2008)

I did HelAirDet for 7+ years and it was the best thing I have ever done. Excellent travel, great people, a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day/trip. Just 'cause you don't see us on the ship every day in home port doesn't mean we're on permanent sliders. 
There are other options as well, firefighters are also air force trade, medics, RMS, Supply, met techs, cooks, all trades that cross employ to all environments.

WrenchBender


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## Sub_Guy (8 May 2008)

There hasn't been too many negatives which is a good thing, but there were somethings that I didn't really care for in the Navy.

- How they treat their people, I don't know what it is but it felt like we were treated like kids (not always, but its much different than the treatment I have received in my short Air Force life).  

- Cleaning stations, yes the ship has to be clean, but can't we leave the space when its clean?  Its not getting any cleaner.

- Home port duty watches, if the rotation is short it can get tiring

- Redundancy, while working as a Navcomm I felt that the senior leadership would take 3 steps back every time something went wrong.  For example, lets say you are driving to work and your car breaks down, the next day you would be taking your horse and buggy because you know that it works.  You would continue to do that for the next year or so, then attempt to drive your car again.   

- It has since changed but getting out to play sports when I first joined was easy on the Iroquois ("I'm off to play hockey"), then once I hit the Vancouver you would have thought I was requesting to eat lunch with the PM! ("So you want to play hockey, draft up a memo and request form, we'll get back to you") Depending on the ship you could be typing up memos and request forms for the simplest things.


Overall the navy is a decent place to start your career.


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## Career change (8 May 2008)

Given all the good advice here on the pro's and con's of navy life, is there one thing I should be considering before I consider a commitment?


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## Sub_Guy (8 May 2008)

Be certain that the trade you pick is something that will interest you, if it doesn't you might find yourself getting out after your initial contract.

Most people think their trade is the best, which is good, you want to be that person, so choose wisely.

If seeing the world is what you are after then the Navy (followed by a COTP to Air Force of course) is the place to start.


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## 2fly (11 May 2008)

In my case, I five years in the army then another five the navy.  My best recommendation is to pick the right career.  If you are in the right one, you will be happy the majority of the time enjoying the foreign ports, etc.  If you do not like your job, you will be miserable and living life looking forward to the next port you visit.  In order to make a good choice maybe look into doing the Strong and MBTI Career Development tests or the Career Assessment Inventory.  That will pin point the civi career type, then apply that area to the best matched DND trade.

If you have any other questions about the life or what to know about the jobs of a comm tech (Net C) fire away.


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## Career change (13 May 2008)

Hello again everyone,

    I've been reading some of the posts on here about the various trades I'm considering, but found some of the posts rambling and going off topic. 

    I've narrowed down my three choices and I'm looking for some " focused" advice. What would be the three top things I should know about these trades? What to expect good or bad? What would be expected of someone in the particular position?

    I know this is a pretty long request, but any help would be appreciated.

Naval Combat Information OP

Naval Electronic Sensor OP

Naval Communicator


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## aesop081 (13 May 2008)

Career change said:
			
		

> is there one thing I should be considering before I consider a commitment?



Yeah, there is :

What do *YOU* want to do ?


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## Career change (13 May 2008)

I've been trying to decide between NCI OP and NES OP. But out of the two, I like the sounds of NCI OP.


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## aesop081 (13 May 2008)

Career change said:
			
		

> But out of the two, I like the sounds of NCI OP.



{best british-sounding accent}

Right then, off you go !


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## Career change (13 May 2008)

That's your best advice?....lol


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## aesop081 (13 May 2008)

Career change said:
			
		

> That's your best advice?....lol



What else do you want ?

You want to joint the Navy, you know what trade interests you and you have received various advice and information from people who are/have been in the Navy.

Am i missing something ?


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## George Wallace (13 May 2008)

Career change said:
			
		

> I've been trying to decide between NCI OP and NES OP. But out of the two, I like the sounds of NCI OP.



I hope you see the problem here.

Too many people are looking forward to entering a Trade just because it sounds good/kool/etc.

Find out what they do first.  It may not be as kool as the name.

How Kool is Sanitary Engineer?  Tomorrow is Blue Box Day and I have to put out the garbage, Leaf Bags and Blue Box for them to collect.

I hope you are putting a little more thought into it than that..

Oh Well!  Back to our regularly scheduled programing.


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## Career change (13 May 2008)

Yes, I agree that just because something sounds "cool" does not mean it is, or is the right career choice. That's why in my original post I asked for more information/advice/opinions. I want to make sure I chose the right trade and don't waste my or any elses time. I've found this site to be a great source of advice so far and I hope to get more as I try and make me choice. So any help would be appreciated.


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## Ex-Dragoon (14 May 2008)

drunksubmrnr,
  You post garbage like that again what NESOPs and NCIOPs do again and you get a verbal and as garbage it has been deleted.

Milnet.Ca Staff.


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## Harley Sailor (14 May 2008)

Out of the two, I would say that NESOP is a little more exciting as the have more variety in their day to day at sea work. And in those two choises that is inportant.  At least they get to fire the big guns.


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## drunknsubmrnr (14 May 2008)

Here's what the recruiting web site says for NESOP:

_What They Do      


Naval Electronic Sensor Operators (NES OPs) are responsible for the operation of all shipboard ELECTRONIC WARFARE and FIRE CONTROL equipment. You, as a member of the ship’s Combat Team, would be instrumental in detecting, locating and identifying both friendly and enemy ships, aircraft and submarines. You would also perform an integral element in engaging the enemy and defending your ship and those in consort with you. You will then be provided the opportunity to begin to supervise various occupational functions and may advance to supervisory positions where you will direct, guide and lead your Above Water Warfare Team in both offensive and defensive actions. 

Specific duties of the NES OP include: 

  Operate highly advanced radar detection equipment to detect, locate and identify friendly and hostile radars at sea, in the air and those located along the coastlines 

  Operate radio detection and intercept equipment to analyze and disseminate various communications from other ships, aircraft, submarines and shore bases 

  Operate gun/missile-firing equipment, used in both defence and offensive operations of your ship against various threats such as ships, aircraft, missiles and shore based units. You as a NES OP are the integral component in the firing and controlling of the ship’s main weapon systems, all close-in weapon systems and the launching of anti-air and anti-surface missiles. 

You will be tasked to conduct intelligence and evidence gathering using the equipment listed above as well as specialized photographic equipment. While performing these duties, NES OPs work with classified material and sometimes assist other governmental agencies such as the Department of Transportation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans or various Federal and Local law enforcement agencies. _ 

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=276&bhcp=1

Here's the list for NCIOP.

_What They Do      


Naval Combat Information Operators (NCI OPs) are responsible for the operation of all shipboard surveillance radars and associated equipment of the Command Control Communications Computers Intelligence Surveillance and Recognizance systems, known as (C4ISR). As NCI OPs progress through the occupation they are given greater responsibility, for example, being accountable for the compilation of the tactical Air, Surface and Underwater pictures, which are provided to Command for tactical decisions. NCI Ops are highly versatile operators who are integral members of the Ship’s Combat Team. 

  As members of the ship’s Combat Information Organization, Naval Combat Information Operators assist and advise the ship’s Command in Navigation (Anti-Collision), Anti-Air Warfare (AAW), Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) and Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW), utilizing data derived from passive and active systems during operational deployments, taskings and local area exercises 

  Configure and operate the Combat Control System (CCS), ships Radars, Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) Feature, C4I Systems, Multi data Links, Global Command and Control System, information processing systems, Shipborne Integrated Communication (SHINCOM) equipment and related sub-systems 

  Analyse equipment and system performance, conductivity and faults on all associated Combat Information (CI) equipment using Built-In, Integrated Test Equipment (BITE) and perform basic on-line fault diagnostic procedures 

  Collect, correlate, record, analyse, display, and disseminate all tactical information utilizing military databases, e-mail and intelligence in the Operations Room. This information is provided from local, national and international sources 

  Maintain classified logs and publications, including performing corrections, doing amendments, inserting and removing pages and page mustering corrected publications _ 

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=275&bhcp=1

Do you have questions about any of these things?


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## Career change (14 May 2008)

I've read the recruiting job description, and my questions tend to be about what those jobs are "really like." The level of work, responsibility and the "day-to-day" working life. I'm trying to get a better feel for what I could expect so I make the right choice for me.


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## drunknsubmrnr (14 May 2008)

Ok, I thought so.

Do you have any specific questions? I'd like to help you but it's a broad topic.


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## SweetNavyJustice (14 May 2008)

I think it's almost impossible for someone to tell you which is going to be better, or more interesting.  Even with answering questions for you, you're not going to get a very good idea of what either job entails.  

I used to be  a NESOP, and there is an incredible amount of down time - especially alongside.  At sea, if you are involved in doing some exercises (Electronic Warfare or Fire Control) the work was great!  The problem is, you don't do them very often, and the rest of your time on watches is really quite boring.  Mind you, that's just my opinion, and what I find boring, you might find exciting.  

I would tend to think that 'overall' NCIOP is more exciting/interesting if you're someone who likes to be more mentally active, and more active in general.  Although they are scope dopes, there is almost always something to look at, track, monitor, etc.  That said, this too can be very boring, if the only thing you are tracking is a freighter in the middle of the ocean.  

Yes, the NESOP's could respond that they could do the same thing on CANEWS, and then do some PTA on the signal, but lets be honest, there is a reason that the maching is called the 'sucker of all that lives'.

At the end of it all, you're going to have to just get in to one of the jobs and see what you like for yourself, and not from what someone writes.  

NESOP's and NCIOP's have their good and bad days, good and bad people.  At the end of the day I think what most enjoy isn't necessarily the job itself (in broad terms), but the people they are working with, and the countries/travelling that you get to see and enjoy - not to mention the moose milk when you come alongside.  I know that when I look back, that's what I miss.  

Just my 2 cents, but if you have a specific question about something related to the NESOP branch, send me a PM.


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## RickDevlieger (14 May 2008)

Both NES Op and NCI Op are similar in that they are both Naval Combat trades. They both stand watches in the operations room for up to 12 hours a day at sea. (Yes boys and girls, everything else is done in the other 12 hours) 

NES OPs are responsible for controlling and firing Weapons and for Electronic Warfare, both detection and countermeasures. They also intelligence gathering and therefore spend many hours learning to identify other Naval vessels and all the weapons, radar and antennae systems and capabilities. At the PO1 level (WO for you Army types) they become a "Director" and stand opposite watches to an Officer with a SWC qualification. Each do the same job on watch in the Ops Room.

NCI Ops are responsible for gathering and maintaining the tactical and strategic picture. They operate search radars and monitor information from Global sources. They are in constant communication with accompanying units and provide tactical support to the Officer of the Watch. At the PO2 level (Sgt), their position in the Ops room is that of Ops Room Supervisor which means you run the Ops room including the NES Ops and Sonar Ops all in support of the Operations Officer. At the PO1 level you will become the Ships IMD (Information management Director) standing opposite watches to the IMD Officer

Along with the jobs described above, there all all the other jobs which require doing on board a ship. You must be able to clean/scrub, fight fires, paint ship, stand as an armed sentry for Force protection etc. You may be part of special parties such as Boarding Party, Ship's Diver etc. There are also the all ship's evolutions such as Jackstays/Replenishment at Sea where you will be a line handler. You will also be part of the upper deck parties for slipping and coming alongside. Oh did I mention duty watches alongside, while away from home, you will be duty on-board one day in four. at home, the watches are better and you are duty one day 15 (give or take a few).

Don't let the above discourage you. After 31 years in the Navy, I always maintain that if Canada had two navies, I would moonlight. It's pretty hard to describe these jobs in any detail in short post, but I hope the above gives a bit of an idea what is in sore for you for either of these jobs.


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