# Support Weapons in actual use.



## warrickdll (17 Mar 2006)

While in AAP (TOW platoon) in Bosnia in the late-90s, our platoon received a briefing from GEO TECHs about GEO TECH capabilities. The GEO TECHs related a story about an incident during a previous deployment (I do not recall which roto) concerning a tank firing in a village. The GEO TECHs said their trade was able to provide AAP with grid locations from which a TUA could engage the tank - but was out of the tank's range  (the story ended with a near-miss and the tank fleeing).

Can anyone, with first hand knowledge, confirm the incident and the use of the TOW missile?

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of incidents where Support Weapons have been used by a CF unit (something other than personal weapons or sniper rifles)?

Note: I'm wondering more about the weapons/systems used rather than the incidents themselves.


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## HItorMiss (17 Mar 2006)

Iterator

Sgt in 1 RCR fired a TOW in Bosnia and took out a belligerent Tank, I believe it took 2 rounds the first being a mobility kill then second being a sure kill.

If you tell me what Bn you were with you might know the person I am talking about, PM me and I'll pass along anything else you might want to know.


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## 043 (17 Mar 2006)

Cpl J***** L****, 1994, Visoko. He took over after the first gunner froze.


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## HItorMiss (17 Mar 2006)

Well you see I try and be all cloak and dagger and not name the guy and here you go using his name...way to go 2023  :dontpanic:


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## 043 (17 Mar 2006)

Why. what's the big deal? Not like he is a war criminal or anything. He happens to be a friend of mine.


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## HItorMiss (17 Mar 2006)

I know the Sgt...I just wasn't sure how he would feel about that story being on the net is all I figured it would be better in a PM  then who say on the boards.


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Mar 2006)

Come on folks you should know better! Unless this guys gives his go ahead we will not divulge names.


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## buzgo (17 Mar 2006)

Hey I think I remember the story that Iterator is talking about. It was in Visoko in 1995 that the miss happened. I think there was a tank targeting a school that the Brits were using for an OP or something, the tank was hull down. The TUA guys went up and fired on the tank but missed. I was working in the NRL det in CANBAT 2 and remember seeing traffic about this.


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## vonGarvin (17 Mar 2006)

The battalion from which the TOW gunner in question was 2 RCR.  Now, I'm not giving his name, but he did mention it during the stand-down of 2 RCR's TOW platoon.


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## Old Sweat (17 Mar 2006)

A report of the action was on 2 RCR's website for a number of years. Two rounds were fired, one of which, as I recall, was a malfunction, and the other glanced off the berm into the tank.


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## HItorMiss (17 Mar 2006)

Old Sweat from personal accounts from the gunner it was 2 hits, however I'm not gunner so I can neither confirm it or dipsute it


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## warrickdll (18 Mar 2006)

But, whatever the outcome, the missiles were launched. Have there been any other TOW launches or other AT weapons used by the CF?

How about any other support weapons (GPMG, HMG, 60mm, 81mm, etc)?


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## buzgo (18 Mar 2006)

I think on OP Athena roto 0, the arty guys fired some illum missions from Camp Warehouse over the hills around the camp...


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## 043 (18 Mar 2006)

In Somalia, the Water Point was being probed by locals so they called for Illum. Mortar Pn spent the next few nights practicing as the Illum rounds they fired were set incorrectly and didn't actually work until they hit the ground.


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## dirtnco (19 Mar 2006)

Sarejevo 92 81mm illum rds, 7.62 match, multiple SA incidents. 1 RCR 94 TUA secondary armament. and one OP burned up by the Warpig,
Atta boy Lorne. 1RCR Durvar 98 .50 to quell riot.  
Pro Patria


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## GO!!! (19 Mar 2006)

Op Apollo, 81mm fire missions on at least two Operations

Just a few months ago a C6 was used to disable a veh in Kandahar/Kabul.


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## aesop081 (19 Mar 2006)

dirtnco said:
			
		

> . 1 RCR 94 TUA secondary armament



Yeah i was there for that one.  One TUA had driven over a TMRP-6 that only partialt detonated.  When my section responded to the incident and started to clear our way to those guys a bunch of locals opened fire on us for some time.  TUA opened up with the C6 and things quieted down enough for us all to leave the scene.


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## HItorMiss (19 Mar 2006)

The Of course there is the Medak Pocket Battle, I know the #2 on a C6 that fired for some time. I'm pretty sure they fired just about all thier support weapons in that one.


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## warrickdll (22 Mar 2006)

I was thinking Medak would have provided some examples; so far I've seen no details on Canadian support weapons being used (then again - I'm not well read on Medak).

However, from (http://www.cda-cdai.ca/library/medakpocket2.htm)



> ...
> Unfortunately the Canadians would have to do without its 81mm mortar platoon.  Since the unit was due to rotate home in only a few weeks, the tubes had already been shipped back to Canada.
> ...


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## 3rd Horseman (7 Apr 2006)

Do Canadians fireing other countries support weapons count?

As to your question about the topo guys, they did produce alot of pre recce work for many incidents one beng to my memory the killing of a tank although not the one at the school, they were not in theatre at that time. The topo guys issued topo info as requested to define locations of observation that an airstrike could be conducted. The paper recce info aided the team in reducing the exposure of the team to En observation while ensuring observation on the target. This reduced the time to actually recce the area and gave a better chance of not being seen while finding the best spot. The topo guys worked for the speciality teams in theatre not the Bn. 

The TUA firing was spring 95 at the Brit school correct , I thought 3 shots fired I my be wrong memory is cloudy. My recollection was 1 missed due to wire cut by warrior fire I think and the 2nd shot hit burm and wood defensive structure 3rd hit right front final drive area and killed T-34, not the T-55 as popularly discussed. T-55 was destroyed later by air strike. I may be wrong on the 3 shots if so then the burm shot caught the front corner as I said. All in all the topo guys did not provide the info for that one.


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## pbi (7 Apr 2006)

Iterator said:
			
		

> While in AAP (TOW platoon) in Bosnia in the late-90s, our platoon received a briefing from GEO TECHs about GEO TECH capabilities. The GEO TECHs related a story about an incident during a previous deployment (I do not recall which roto) concerning a tank firing in a village. The GEO TECHs said their trade was able to provide AAP with grid locations from which a TUA could engage the tank - but was out of the tank's range  (the story ended with a near-miss and the tank fleeing).
> 
> Can anyone, with first hand knowledge, confirm the incident and the use of the TOW missile?
> 
> ...



During our tour in Croatia in 94 (1 PP on OP HARMONY), C6s were fired a couple of times to discourage random pot shots by bored Croat Home Guardsmen at our OPs. We also staged a full-blown TOW firewpower demo for the local Serb command structure, using their own anti-tank range outside Benkovac (near Zadar). TOW Platoon shot up a bunker, some old hulks, and topped it off with the good old standby of a  tank (old T-34) filled with POL and C4. Afterwards we let the Serb officers take a look at the systems. They were very impressed: the TOW II that AAP was firing was a far more powerful system than the little Sagger the Serbs had. TOW also ripped up the tank hulks quite nicely.

In my company we deployed all our support weapon forward on our line: C6, .50 cal, 60mm and Karl G, either mounted at the OPs or in hte APCs. I also had a sniper team. Fortunately we never had to open fire.

Cheers


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## Journeyman (12 Apr 2006)

3rd Horseman said:
			
		

> The topo guys worked for the speciality teams in theatre not the Bn.



SFOR Roto 1: Topo worked for the BG (I had sole tasking authority and I wrote their PERs). The "specialty teams"....the US troops spent most of their time sun-tanning and trying to out "war-story" the Brit; the Cdn's - playing volleyball and hitting on any female in-camp that had a pulse (when my section's two women were on HLTA, JTF2 abruptly stopped dropping by with support requests).

KFOR Roto 1: Topo was moved into Bde HQ (Pristina) because our camp "didn't meet their requirements" (ie - the camp wasn't comfy). Support weapon use was limited to CO RCD firing a burst of C6 into the Leo in front of him while visiting his Tp.  ~d'oh~

Edit -> ..not JTF2 bashing. Just a matter of the right tools in the toolbox. What they do, they appear to do quite well; they were, however, grossly underemployed in both missions.


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## 3rd Horseman (12 Apr 2006)

Journeyman,

   You are probably right I was not on those SFOR or KFOR rotos, I was talking about the last UNPROFOR roto before IFOR arrived. At that point they worked for the specialty teams directly along with the locating artillery and other assets. The specialty teams I spoke about I might add are not JTF2 teams. The JTF2 had no tasks during that time. As a side note the TERE or TOPO guys as I called them were invaluable to me and my team and I used them extensively. To any TOPO guys watching out there ...Thanks you saved my bacon more than once!


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