# General's future one to follow for hints at military's course



## GAP (18 Jun 2010)

General's future one to follow for hints at military's course 
Andrew Leslie's assignment as Chief of Transformation could be the final act before achieving ambition of Chief of the Defence Staff
Article Link

Campbell Clark and Paul Koring

Ottawa and Washington — From Friday's Globe and Mail Published on Thursday, Jun. 17, 2010 9:52PM EDT Last updated on Friday, Jun. 18, 2010 10:29AM EDT

Few long-haired university students in the late 1970s knew deep down that their flirtation with hippydom was only a boyish interlude before a warrior’s life. Andy Leslie was different.

“When I was slightly younger, I had long hair. And while a student at Ottawa U, I was gloriously happy,” the three-star general reminisced in a recent interview. “But looming in the back of my mind … was the realization that I was going to be a soldier. It was always pretty clear for me.”

Now Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie, whose military lineage is unequalled in Canada, will become Chief of Transformation on June 21, charged with remodelling Canada’s military as it withdraws from its mission in Afghanistan – the biggest, most dangerous and most domestically divisive war for Canadian troops since Korea.

His parting shot as chief of the army was a sour one: On Thursday, he sidelined an officer he twice promoted, Brigadier-General Dan Ménard, the Afghanistan commander removed for allegedly having an affair during the mission. Gen. Leslie cancelled Brig-Gen. Ménard’s appointment as army commander in Quebec, and assigned him a desk job overseeing a new personnel database.

Gen. Leslie bucked earlier this year for the tough task of leading 20,000 UN peacekeepers in a troubled mission in the Congo. Instead, starting Monday, he’ll be charged with changing military ways and trimming its bloated HQ.

The assignment could be the final act before Gen. Leslie achieves his long-cherished ambition of taking command of the armed forces as Chief of the Defence Staff. Or it could be a postlude for an officer whose ambition exceeds his grasp. Either way, Andrew Leslie’s future could tell us much about the future of Canada’s armed forces.

Certainly, Gen. Leslie has an impressive pedigree. Both his grandfathers, Brooke Claxton and Gen. Andrew MacNaughton, fought at Vimy Ridge and served as Defence Minister. His father was an artillery colonel in Korea, but he died when he was 60 and didn’t get to see his son rise through the ranks.
More on link


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## GAP (21 Jun 2010)

Reshaping military post-Afghanistan starts with command shake-up
By: Murray Brewster, The Canadian Press 20/06/2010
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A pair of Canadian soldiers leapt off one of the army's new Leopard 2A6M battle tanks recently at a forward operating base in the desert west of Kandahar city and landed within sight of their commander.

Behind them the barrels of a pair of gleaming M-777 howitzers were raised skyward.

The soldiers debated, as soldiers often do lately, about the merits of living side-by-side with Afghan troops.

Throughout it all Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, the outgoing commander of the army, simply marvelled at the scene.

This was not the army he inherited four years ago, the army that he will give up commanding on Monday.

"The army's changed more over the last four to five years than over the previous 30-40; building on the good work of everyone who's come before us, those who kept the enthusiasm and warrior's spirit alive," said Leslie, one of the country's more recognizable military figures.

Leslie's long been considered a candidate for the top job of chief of defence staff.

Some would argue that it's in his blood. Brooke Claxton and Gen. Andrew MacNaughton, Leslie's grandfathers, were defence ministers and both fought at Vimy Ridge.

He will hand over command of the army to Lt.-Gen. Peter Devlin at a ceremony in Ottawa.

Since 2006 it has been Leslie's job to assemble, train and equip the army for the Afghan war. His new job will be to help shepherd the entire Canadian Forces towards its post-Afghanistan future at a time when the Conservative government is wrestling with an expected $49-billion deficit.

When Leslie took over, there was still a Cold War mindset, where soldiers were prepared to fight on the plains of western Europe against a long vanquished foe.

Instead, the army he led had to learn how to fight among an indifferent population against mountain tribesmen who use plastic jugs full of fertilizer as extremely effective weapons.

Leslie is the new Chief of Transformation.

But the question often asked around Ottawa these days is: The Canadian Forces is being transformed, but into what?

Four years of fighting a counter-insurgency in Afghanistan has given Canada a lean, lethal, little force. It is all dressed up, and post-Afghanistan, has seemingly nowhere to go.
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## daftandbarmy (21 Jun 2010)

What are the odds that the next CDS will be Army too? I'm betting on the Navy!


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## Infanteer (21 Jun 2010)

"Custom" dictates a revolving hat rack, but in the end it's the government's call, not the Forces, isn't it?  I ask as I am not up to speed on Ottawa politiking - but I'd hope that the best man for the job would be taken regardless of jacket colour.  My choice would be to snap up some 2 Star with a fresh look at things, preferably from somewhere outside of Ottawa....


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## ltmaverick25 (22 Jun 2010)

In my own humble opinion, based on the Generals and Flag Officers available to chose from, Leslie is by far the best choice.  I really hope we dont let something as stupid as uniform color determine the next CDS.

If the CDS were merely a symbolic type of position then maybe a case could be made for revolving uniforms.  Given large deficits and an end to our war in Afghanistan, we are going to need the best person for the job, not the right colour uniform.


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## daftandbarmy (22 Jun 2010)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> In my own humble opinion, based on the Generals and Flag Officers available to chose from, Leslie is by far the best choice.  I really hope we dont let something as stupid as uniform color determine the next CDS.
> 
> If the CDS were merely a symbolic type of position then maybe a case could be made for revolving uniforms.  Given large deficits and an end to our war in Afghanistan, we are going to need the best person for the job, not the right colour uniform.



Tsk, tsk... since when has that ever been an important piece of criteria for selecting our Generals?  ;D


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## Teeps74 (22 Jun 2010)

As a reservist... Well, recent history.... Ya, no comment on this story.

I hope for a future that includes the P Res.


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## ltmaverick25 (22 Jun 2010)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Tsk, tsk... since when has that ever been an important piece of criteria for selecting our Generals?  ;D



Good point, were doomed!


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## Rifleman62 (22 Jun 2010)

Don't think so. I think we finally have someone that will reorg the Militia/Army Reserve as it needs to be as discussed elsewhere. 

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24381.1365.html

It won't be perfect, but nothing is.


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## dapaterson (22 Jun 2010)

LGen Leslie sufferes from colourblindness in other than the green spectrum and thus may not be an ideal choice for CDS.


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## ltmaverick25 (22 Jun 2010)

The same thing was said about Hillier too though and he turned out just fine.  Besides, he was the CLS, vigorously fighting for the army was his job, just as the CMS and CAS would have been doing.


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## aesop081 (22 Jun 2010)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> he turned out just fine.



HA !!!!!


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## Mortar guy (22 Jun 2010)

I would be willing to be large sums of money that Leslie never sits behind the CDS desk. If he did, I would try to win my money back by betting that every air force and navy general/flag officer would resign the next day - and not just because they missed out on the job. Leslie has burned his share of bridges in the CF.

MG


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## ltmaverick25 (22 Jun 2010)

Mortar guy said:
			
		

> I would be willing to be large sums of money that Leslie never sits behind the CDS desk. If he did, I would try to win my money back by betting that every air force and navy general/flag officer would resign the next day - and not just because they missed out on the job. Leslie has burned his share of bridges in the CF.
> 
> MG



What makes you say that?  Bottom feeders like me dont get to hear about these things.  Share!


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## Infanteer (22 Jun 2010)

Probably not the place to do so....


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## dapaterson (22 Jun 2010)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> The same thing was said about Hillier too though and he turned out just fine.  Besides, he was the CLS, vigorously fighting for the army was his job, just as the CMS and CAS would have been doing.



No, he didn't turn out just fine.  Dot COMs, bad recruiting decisions... once there's the benefit of time, his tenure will be objectively assessed.  Much of what "he accomplished" would have happened regardless of the CDS; his decisions (fat camp for recruits by abandonning standards, ignoring intake quotas by trade and bringing in too many of some at the expense of others, creating uselss staff organizations) will harm the CF for another decade at least.


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## Infanteer (23 Jun 2010)

I'll disagree.  Sure, he had his visits from the "idea fairy", but at least they started off going in the right direction.  There is much more laudable things to his credit.  The profile of the CF and the vitality he restored was not, in my opinion, a given in 2005.  One only has to look at Hillier's predecessors to get the feeling that he was one of the better Chiefs of Defence Staff.


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## ltmaverick25 (23 Jun 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No, he didn't turn out just fine.  Dot COMs, bad recruiting decisions... once there's the benefit of time, his tenure will be objectively assessed.  Much of what "he accomplished" would have happened regardless of the CDS; his decisions (fat camp for recruits by abandonning standards, ignoring intake quotas by trade and bringing in too many of some at the expense of others, creating uselss staff organizations) will harm the CF for another decade at least.



Ill give you the recruiting side, but, what is the big problem with dot coms?  Have they not streamlined operations?


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## SeanNewman (23 Jun 2010)

Whatever LGen Leslie does, I am happy that he is still in uniform and making my life in uniform better.

He has done a fantastic job to get us new kit and good training while he was CLS, and not all former CLSs can say that.  Granted the planets were aligned and the Afghan budget allowed for a lot of it, but we now have new trucks, tanks, guns, and soon to be LAVs.

Thank you for not retiring!


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## dapaterson (23 Jun 2010)

New hypothesis:  The Internet is like Powerpoint:  Everything gets reduced to a single bullet and nuance and subtlety are lost.


Gen Hillier did much good for the CF in presenting a public image that had been sorely ignored for a long time.  He was (and is) a tireless champion for the men & women fof the CF.  I do not argue those points, nor do I think he was ever motivated by any ill will.

That being said, in my opinion, some of his decisions were less than optimal and have repercussions that his successors will have to address.  The HQ bloat introduced by the dot COMs is a drain on resources, and ignores centuries of organizational knowledge - you do not become more agile by spreading out C2; increasing the number of direct reports decreases efficiency.


LGen Leslie also had many strong points as CLS - frankly, as CLS you want someone who bleeds green and will fight in the corridors of power for his troops.  But that does not translate nicely into a "purple" world - there are long memories in the institution, and his every move would be assessed, rightly or wrongly, in that light.  "Plays well with others" is important in a kindergarden report card - it's equally important in DND's corridors of power, lest the system become constipated and unable to advance.

(There's also the question of staff support - I would argue that much of LGen Leslie's success in advancing the Army's acquisition of equipment is attributable to BGen Tremblay's tremendous work behind the scenes.)


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## Journeyman (23 Jun 2010)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> Bottom feeders like me don*'*t get to hear about these things.


- So Hillier _didn't_ quite turn out just fine.  
- Dot COMs actually _add_ a layer of bureaucracy -- the complete opposite of streamlining operations.

I can't wait for the intellectual "strike three"   :

* OR.......... *

If there was a quiz on this to pick the most appropriate expression, it would be:

a) "stay in your lane" or
b) "listen more; post less"

It's a rhetorical question by the way; no response is desired. 

Just something to ponder as you wrestle with an apparently Pavlovian desire to hit "send."


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## ltmaverick25 (23 Jun 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> - So Hillier _didn't_ quite turn out just fine.
> - Dot COMs actually _add_ a layer of bureaucracy -- the complete opposite of streamlining operations.
> 
> I can't wait for the intellectual "strike three"   :
> ...



I am just as every bit in my lane as you are or anyone else who served while Hillier was the CDS.  You obviously dont agree on my assessment of his tenure as CDS... Fine and dandy, but that is not a lane issue.

As for the dot coms, I have seen negative feedback on the concept on these boards, but thus far I have not seen much substantiating said feedback.  I work in JTFP, which falls under CANCOM, and based on what I have seen since having been here, and from feedback from those who have been here way longer then I have, the CANCOM changes, and hence, JTFP appear to have greatly streamlined our operational processes.  From my point of view, at the operational level here on the ground, the dot coms idea appear to be sound.

Granted I dont know what the impacts or effects are at higher levels which is why I asked for feedback.

And lastly, I will state that if the best you can do is offer a one sentence carbon copy of a reply already made, and offer no further value to the discussion other then a completely unfounded lane comment, perhaps it is you who should consider not hitting the send button as often.


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## dapaterson (23 Jun 2010)

Simple question on this "streamlining": Who commands the commander, JTFP?  Is it the Commander, Canada Command, or the Commander, Maritime Forces Command?


Problem is, right now it's both - one sailor with two legal bosses.


If anyone can explain how that improves C2, by giving someone two direct superiors, I'm all ears.


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## Journeyman (23 Jun 2010)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> I am just as every bit in my lane as you are ....


Gee, how did I know that "rhetorical," being four syllables, would baffle you.


OK, let me try again....using smaller words.

I have absolutely no heartache with opinions being posted. Opinions, backed by fact and experience, however, carry _much_ more weight. 

Saying you served during Hillier's tenure as CDS certainly qualifies you to have an opinion. Is that opinion sufficiently informed to add value to this thread? As seen by the rebuttals, no. It's much like saying that Napoleon's pack mule accompanied him on every campaign, therefore the mule's experience and opinion is valued. As you yourself have stated, you haven't a clue what happens at the higher levels of command -- so why do you feel this compulsion to comment? Perhaps you're not aware that MilPoints have no cash value.

Now, if this is a case where you feel a need to get in the last word, to thwart that whole "rhetorical" thing....please respond with one more non-contributory response. I promise not to respond, and you can say "I showed him."


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## ltmaverick25 (23 Jun 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Gee, how did I know that "rhetorical," being four syllables, would baffle you.
> 
> 
> OK, let me try again....using smaller words.
> ...



So the only experience that carries any weight on this topic comes from someone working in a senior position?  Priceless..

Certainly I havent served in a senior rank or position, most of my 16 years were spent as an NCM, but I have served under more then one CDS and CLS in that timeframe.  My assertion that Hillier did a good job, and I do still maintain that he did do a very good job, is based on that experience.  Beleive it or not, what he did had impact on those of us way at the bottom too..  That may not carry much weight with you, but im not going to lose much sleep over that.


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## Infanteer (23 Jun 2010)

....and done.


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## ltmaverick25 (23 Jun 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Simple question on this "streamlining": Who commands the commander, JTFP?  Is it the Commander, Canada Command, or the Commander, Maritime Forces Command?
> 
> 
> Problem is, right now it's both - one sailor with two legal bosses.
> ...



Thats a good point.  I remember on more then one occasion as things popped up here on the west coast where the direction was to inform CMS, though, in all cases we were in direct dialogue with CANCOM.  I think part of the problem is that Comd JTFP is also double hatted as Comd MARPAC.

Has this reporting relationship resulted in any severe difficulties?  Again I am not really privy to the dynamics at that level.  But I can say that for the ops people out here it has made things much better, though everyone does love to complain about CANCOM as a national passtime, unless of course they are busy complaining about the east coast


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## aesop081 (23 Jun 2010)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> JTFP appear to have greatly streamlined our operational processes.



 :rofl:


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## HItorMiss (23 Jun 2010)

If Leslie becomes CDS it will be dark day for certain groups in the CF and the day I probably get out!


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## George Wallace (23 Jun 2010)

CANCON has always been a moral builder for the members of the CF.  As a kid I remember fondly the Shows that they took to the troops around the world.  Some well known artists and others on the rise.   Of course, as a kid, we only got to see the PG versions of the show.


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## Infanteer (24 Jun 2010)

Um...I think we're talking about CANada COMmand.


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## The Bread Guy (16 Jul 2011)

Reviving necro-thread with latest:  he's reportedly in the running for commissioner of the RCMP - more here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/99262/post-1061600/topicseen.html#new


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## The Bread Guy (29 Sep 2011)

The latest on Leslie:


> CGI Group Inc., a leading provider of information technology and business process services, today announced the opening of a new Canadian Defence, Public Safety and Intelligence business unit based in Ottawa with capabilities to serve the Canadian Armed Forces around the globe.
> 
> In addition, the Company also announced the appointment of Lieutenant General Andrew Leslie to lead the new Defence, Public Safety and Intelligence unit. The offering will build on the corporation's global expertise to develop and implement innovative, world-class solutions tailored to specific knowledge and requirements of Canada's modern-day defence and security challenges ....


CGI news release, 29 Sept 11


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