# Why does Recce wear black toque's?



## GXP13 (3 Nov 2016)

I see Recce qualified guys wearing black toque's. Why is that? What's the history?
Cheers


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## Lightguns (3 Nov 2016)

You mean berets?


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## dapaterson (3 Nov 2016)

To keep their heads warm.


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## mariomike (3 Nov 2016)

GXP13 said:
			
		

> I see Recce qualified guys wearing black toque's. Why is that? What's the history?



If you mean beret, there is a two-page discussion of,

Beret colours  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/377.25.html

But wait, there's more!

Armour beret
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+armour+beret&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HFwbWImRDcuC8Qfki67QAQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+armour+beret&start=0


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## GXP13 (3 Nov 2016)

No I mean toque's...rifle companies wear OD toque's but recce wears black toque's. Is there a historical significance to the black toque's?


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## Lightguns (3 Nov 2016)

Same as beret but it is only authorized in the unit.


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## Remius (3 Nov 2016)

GXP13 said:
			
		

> No I mean toque's...rifle companies wear OD toque's but recce wears black toque's. Is there a historical significance to the black toque's?



It is historically so the enemy know that it is Recce if they get spotted.  Heaven forbid they get mistaken for a work party or a driver on a meal run.

 [


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## SeaKingTacco (3 Nov 2016)

GXP13 said:
			
		

> I see Recce qualified guys wearing black toque's. Why is that? What's the history?
> Cheers



The hunter blaze orange ones didn't pass the field trials. So they dyed them black.

(True story- I just made it up).


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## Remius (3 Nov 2016)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> The hunter blaze orange ones didn't pass the field trials. So they dyed them black.
> 
> (True story- I just made it up).



The committee that assembled to discuss these changes did indeed look at the orange toque.  The problem being that Black was/is navy and armoured and that black would cause confusion.  They looked at other traditional army colours but discovered that Brown is actually the official colour of cowards.

 ref: http://www.kithfan.org/work/transcripts/two/evanshoe.html 


Recce career shop would have none of that despite it being better cam during the day.  

White was thought of but already everyone else in the army wears that too so it wasn't enough to be able to point them out in a crowd.

Other colours were also dismissed because of the colour Black is the coolest colour and those other colours aren't cool enough.  Para 4 I believe covers this and included pics showing uncool toques and colours. 

Ultimately they went with black because it was different enough from the infantry but just similar enough to be mistaken for Navy and Armoured.  While black toques are available in the system that also was unacceptable to recce since only a non issued toque would do.  THAT's how you can really tell. 

Last I heard the whole thing is under review, since the Royal Winnipeg Army Scout Task Element (WASTE) or Royal Wasties as they are informally known can trace it's lineage to the war of 1812 and had black toques and  are contesting that no one but them can wear black toques.  They might be meeting in Jan-Feb when toque season is at its peak.

It's a big political mess.


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## CountDC (3 Nov 2016)

nah - the black toque is so they can pretend to be navy


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## Infanteer (3 Nov 2016)

Black toques are not issued to personnel on Army scales of issue.  They are actually forbidden in most Regular Force units and formations I've seen.


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## OldSolduer (3 Nov 2016)

GXP13 said:
			
		

> No I mean toque's...rifle companies wear OD toque's but recce wears black toque's. Is there a historical significance to the black toque's?



Be cause Recce Pl can't be bothered with little details like dress regs.


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## cupper (3 Nov 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> nah - the black toque is so they can pretend to be navy



It would be very confusing to the enemy to see a bunch of sailors sneaking around the battlefield, and not a ship in sight.   [


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Nov 2016)

IIRC, the RCN headdress is actually a midnight blue, which is about as close to black as you can get and still be blue. So someone decided 'close enough' and the black beret, belonging to the Armour Corps, went on the RCN scale of issue.


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## McG (3 Nov 2016)

GXP13 said:
			
		

> I see Recce qualified guys wearing black toque's. Why is that? What's the history


There is no history.  Google "peacocking"


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## Chispa (3 Nov 2016)

Many wore black headdress, in war of 1812.

https://flic.kr/p/jz7BQ6

Canadian Forces - Exercise RAFALE BLANCHE 2014

Canadian and Polish soldiers will train for winter weather combat operations in the Chaudière-Appalaches region of Quebec from January 28 to February 5. Exercise RAFALE BLANCHE 2014 will include almost 2,500 soldiers and approximately 700 vehicles from 5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group (5 CMBG). They will be joined by a Polish Army platoon (some members seen in photo).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cfoperations/12189157393/


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## George Wallace (3 Nov 2016)

Doesn't the black toque date back to the 1700's and the Quebec Volunteer Cavalry in and around Quebec City?


 :warstory:


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## Chispa (3 Nov 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Doesn't the black toque date back to the 1700's and the Quebec Volunteer Cavalry in and around Quebec City?
> 
> 
> :warstory:



Not only Cavalry.









French Cavalry Corps 1759-1760















Noted that in Montreal & Quebec pre British, they wore red, black, or dark grey Toques.



.
.


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## OldSolduer (4 Nov 2016)

GXP13 said:
			
		

> I see Recce qualified guys wearing black toque's. Why is that? What's the history?
> Cheers



There is none. None at all. Recce qualified guys can't make up their own dress regs. Period.

But they do anyway......


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## dangerboy (4 Nov 2016)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> There is none. None at all. Recce qualified guys can't make up their own dress regs. Period.
> 
> But they do anyway......



At one time in the PPCLI they were wearing Brit smocks in the field and garrison, so a black toque is minor.


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## Lightguns (4 Nov 2016)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> At one time in the PPCLI they were wearing Brit smocks in the field and garrison, so a black toque is minor.



I remember that and I remember so wanting one but the course was hard to get on.


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## OldSolduer (4 Nov 2016)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> At one time in the PPCLI they were wearing Brit smocks in the field and garrison, so a black toque is minor.



The Brit smocks were authorized by Niner in 2VP.

In 96/97 we were told "no black neck warmers" but that rule was ignored as well.


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## Shrek1985 (5 Nov 2016)

LONE-WANDERER said:
			
		

> I see Recce qualified guys wearing black toque's. Why is that? What's the history?
> Cheers



Sigh.

They are taking the piss out of you, OP.

Here is what happened; they lost their green toques. You want a new one? Fill out an LSR/MLR. That takes time and is too much trouble, so they took their so-dark-green-it-looks-black DEU toques. Lose that, no biggee, you can order two a year from Logistik.

It aint Bristol-fashion, but it beats freezing.


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## SeaKingTacco (5 Nov 2016)

Kill joy.


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## Shrek1985 (13 Apr 2017)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Kill joy.



Of you want; they saw the Force Recon guys in Generation Kill do it and thought it looked cool.


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