# The Truth About Army.ca



## Mike Bobbitt (14 Mar 2022)

Folks,

I received an "angry letter" from a user this morning and in drafting my reply, it occurs to me that the same sentiment may be shared by many, so I'm making a public reply in the hopes that I can address concerns beyond the single user.

The trigger for the note was the recent banning of Altair. The concern was, that the ban was not warranted. It summed up with the concern that while we are trying to get better, other places like r/CanadianForces exist, so "why do I continue to have an account here?"

Let me answer the practical bit first: Altair was given a 1-week ban (not permanent) because after multiple warnings, he continued to troll and post with the intent of winding folks up. The user who PM'd me couldn't see this because the interactions in question happened over PM and in posts that are now deleted. We remove posts that we consider inappropriate on purpose, so it's understandable that the user was scratching their head on the ban.

Now let me answer the unasked question. Why is the site not better? Because it is operated by a small but dedicated group of volunteers. Yep, folks just like you, except they're committing their time to make the site better. Nobody gets paid, myself included. In fact, I drop several hundred dollars a month to cover server hosting, traffic, software, etc. and we have a stalwart band of Subscribers/Donors who chip in to help out with the costs.

So while I sit here getting ready for my day job and running out of time, I'd ask all users: If you don't like it, what are you doing to make it better?

If the answer you came up with was "leave" then I fear you've missed the point. This is a community built by and for its members, not a service for you to consume (at not cost).

Thanks
Mike


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## suffolkowner (14 Mar 2022)

Mike Bobbitt said:


> Folks,
> 
> I received an "angry letter" from a user this morning and in drafting my reply, it occurs to me that the same sentiment may be shared by many, so I'm making a public reply in the hopes that I can address concerns beyond the single user.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike

I've disagreed with Altair quite a bit over the years and haven't always agreed with his tone either but do appreciate his contributions. Having recently had one of my posts deleted for trolling I can see how it can happen. I might point out though that the standard by which posts are moderated or policed is very subjective, a point which Altair brought up recently. Whenever someone is banned though would it not be more useful if people could understand the reason why? It would alleviate the confusion and help uphold the standard. At least one poster in the Ukraine thread has to have posted the most borderline trolling post literally every single time they post so much so that many people have suggested that they are an actual troll. So I can understand the frustration.

Having said that this is a great site and I lurked here long before I ever joined and the moderation is much much better than it used to be. Keep up the great work I know I appreciate it very much


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## Booter (14 Mar 2022)

Pretty incredible amount of personal work done by the mods here. I’m sorry he’s gone despite one thread where it couldn’t move along


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## Humphrey Bogart (14 Mar 2022)

suffolkowner said:


> Thanks Mike
> 
> I've disagreed with Altair quite a bit over the years and haven't always agreed with his tone either but do appreciate his contributions. Having recently had one of my posts deleted for trolling I can see how it can happen. I might point out though that the standard by which posts are moderated or policed is very subjective, a point which Altair brought up recently. Whenever someone is banned though would it not be more useful if people could understand the reason why? It would alleviate the confusion and help uphold the standard. At least one poster in the Ukraine thread has to have posted the most borderline trolling post literally every single time they post so much so that many people have suggested that they are an actual troll. So I can understand the frustration.
> 
> Having said that this is a great site and I lurked here long before I ever joined and the moderation is much much better than it used to be. Keep up the great work I know I appreciate it very much


We aim to be as transparent as possible.  The reason Altair was banned for 1 week was because he was warned on 4 separate occasions over a two day period to stop trolling.  He also challenged the staff after the warnings were issued.

Site Guidelines define trolling as the following:

*Trolling*: Making a deliberately offensive or provocative post, where the primary aim is upsetting someone or eliciting an emotional response from them.

The standard test I apply when deciding whether a post meets the threshold for trolling is did the person making it actually make an argument and does it contribute in any way to the overall thread?

Many threads on this site are about political issues.  If someone makes an argument that you don't like, that doesn't make it trolling, that just makes it another person's argument.  If 

The way to answer to that is to debate their point, if you don't want to do that, then don't reply.  

Next point:

*Cooperation with Directing Staff (Moderators)*
In order to keep things running smoothly, the Directing Staff take an active role in day to day operations. We've found that some users are surprised by this "hands on" approach, especially those who are used to sites where moderators are not heavily involved. It is expected that everyone using this site will respect the authority given to the Staff. They volunteer their time and have been selected based on a proven track record at this site. They are charged with the policing of this site. Diplomatic criticism and debate of their role is accepted and encouraged. However, any hostile challenges to their authority will not be tolerated. If you feel you have been treated inappropriately, please send myself, or Scott a PM including details on the incident.


BLUF:  If we tell you to wind it in with a PM, you better do so and not decide to use it as your moment to double down.  Likewise though, if you want to discuss something you can also PM us and we will talk with you.


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## Good2Golf (14 Mar 2022)

A note to add is that any site member has unrestricted access to Mike directly  @Mike Bobbitt  if they feel that the DS may not be getting it right.  The DS work hard not only out front, but a lot of work behind the scenes to get it right supporting Mike and his site — if we’re off the mark, we take Mike’s guidance to heart quickly and sort ourselves out and carry on. 👍🏼


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## Jarnhamar (14 Mar 2022)

> other places like r/CanadianForces exist, so "why do I continue to have an account here?"



Being able to post new threads without moderator approval first and not being quietly shadow banned comes to mind.


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## MJP (14 Mar 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> Being able to post new threads without moderator approval first and not being quietly shadow banned comes to mind.


Oh yes they pretend to be better and open but in reality they're not.  If anything at Army.ca at least you have an ability to talk to the site owner separate from the mods.....the other places no such recourse


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## Booter (15 Mar 2022)

Kat Stevens said:


> I won't. I've been told by staff that my posting "style" is not appreciated here. I can tell you, he is far more confrontational, abrasive, insulting, condescending, and more na-na-na-boo-boo than me on my worst day. I've been to the Penalty Box. He's not immune, he's not Austin Mathews. Hopefully he learns, but hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.


I just find the majority of perspectives here interesting. Generally much more well composed than my own- I would have a beer with all of them. Except the applicants. I don’t need to agree with everyone.


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