# WW2-era IJN superbattleship MUSASHI to be salvaged



## CougarKing (23 Oct 2008)

For those of you who have always wanted to see a World War II-era superdreadnought battleship of the YAMATO class up close, this may be your chance. Still isn't this considered a desecration of a war grave, even if this was a ship that belonged to a former enemy back then?



> *Swiss firm offers services to salvage Japanese warship
> Negotiations under way between Japanese group and Swiss Global*
> 
> Mar T. Supnad
> ...


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## TangoTwoBravo (23 Oct 2008)

I am not sure about the rules regarding war graves but I would think that being a former enemy would not matter since we should treat the fallen of our enemy with the same respect we would accord our own.  There are many wrecks from the war that have offical war grave status (Arizona, Royal Oak, Prince of Wales to name three) but I do not know what steps are taken to designate a ship as a war grave.  Perhaps it is assumed that a wartime wreck is a war grave unless otherwise established by the state that sailed her?  Along that line, if the Japanese government wanted to do this then I suppose that that would be the overiding criteria.

Tirpitz was sunk with heavy loss of life but was broken up for scrap.  Oklahoma was sunk at Pearl Harbour with heavy loss of life but was raised and was being towed for scrap when it sank.  In those cases I suppose that it was practical to enter the ships and recover the remains of the sailors for proper burial.  I read a grim account of the Oklahoma salvage crews about the nature of their duties.

Again, I would think that the authorization to raise the ship would rest with the Japanese government.


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## Loachman (23 Oct 2008)

"hit by a barrage of tor_*na*_does and bombs"...?


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## Blackadder1916 (23 Oct 2008)

A different perspective of this story would be --

A private company (Japanese?) in association with a private Philippine organization wishes to raise a former Japanese warship from Philippine waters and tow it to a Philippine island where it would be developed into an attraction of a new tourist destination (perhaps primarily aimed at Japanese tourists) in order to make a profit.



Maybe let these men rest in peace.


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## bLUE fOX (23 Oct 2008)

Or perhaps someone took the show "space battleship Yamato" a little too seriously.  And besides, even after they salvaged her, wouldn't sixty four years on the bottom make her too structurally unsound? just look at what they brought up from the Graf Spee, and she sank under much less violent conditions.


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## TangoTwoBravo (23 Oct 2008)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> A different perspective of this story would be --
> 
> A private company (Japanese?) in association with a private Philippine organization wishes to raise a former Japanese warship from Philippine waters and tow it to a Philippine island where it would be developed into an attraction of a new tourist destination (perhaps primarily aimed at Japanese tourists) in order to make a profit.
> 
> ...



I am also of the opinion that we leave the ship and its crew in peace.  I would defer, though, to the Japanese government's wishes.


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## AJFitzpatrick (23 Oct 2008)

... inviting foreign dignitaries "to join us return to this tragic chapter of World War II when the blue waters of Sibuyan Sea turned blood red during the great Battle of Sibuyan Sea."

I really hope this is a bad translation.

Just curious as to who has "rights" to a sunken warship. Haven't there been various Spanish claims over ships of the Spanish Armanda in UK territorial waters.


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## cameron (24 Oct 2008)

Thanks for posting this CougarDaddy, one thing i'm wondering, in this discussion of whether Yamato should be raised or not has any attempt been made by the Japanese Government or the other stakeholders in this proposed operation to get the opinions of the descendants of those who perished on the ship?


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## CougarKing (24 Oct 2008)

cameron said:
			
		

> Thanks for posting this CougarDaddy, one thing i'm wondering, in this discussion of whether *Yamato* should be raised or not has any attempt been made by the Japanese Government or the other stakeholders in this proposed operation to get the opinions of the descendants of those who perished on the ship?



Cameron,

You do realize that this thread is about the MUSASHI, not her sister ship the YAMATO, right?



			
				bLUE fOX said:
			
		

> Or perhaps someone took the show *"space battleship Yamato"* a little too seriously.  And besides, even after they salvaged her, wouldn't sixty four years on the bottom make her too structurally unsound? just look at what they brought up from the Graf Spee, and she sank under much less violent conditions.


 ;D




>


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## ironduke57 (27 Oct 2008)

Would be probably quite a sight if they are able to do that. Especially if they could borrow one of the Iowa-class battleship and lay them side by side.

(P.S.: Does somebody has some money to spare to raise the Bismarck? And then we see all three together making a trip around the world.  8) )

Regards,
ironduke57


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## geo (27 Oct 2008)

Hmmm.... would wager that Rust has done a good job of finishing off the damages initiated by the bombs and torpedoes.  An interesting endeavour BUT probably the only thing holding it together are the barnacles & the coral reefs.

Point of order !  does the UN have a say WRT coral reefs ???  I thought they were protected


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## geo (27 Oct 2008)

> The Musashi capsized to port, and sank at 7:25 PM on 24 October, taking more than 1,000 of her 2,399 crew with her; 1376 of the crew were rescued by the destroyers Kiyoshimo and Shimakaze. The wreck of Musashi is believed to be at 13° 07' 01" North, 122° 31' 59" East, off the Bondoc Peninsula, in 1,350 meters (4,429 ft) of water.



4400 feet of water... sounds pretty deep - refloating her sounds like a Clive Cussler book epic - like "raise the titanic"


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## mdh (27 Oct 2008)

> 4400 feet of water... sounds pretty deep - refloating her sounds like a Clive Cussler book epic - like "raise the titanic"



Wow 4,400 feet! I can't imagine how much money that would cost. IIRC the CIA spent millions trying to raise a Soviet sub back during the cold war.

This would be true feat of engineering if they could pull it off.


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## a_majoor (27 Oct 2008)

It would probably be cheaper to build a replica at one of the Finnish "super" yards (that build jumbo sized cruise ships) or giant Korean containership yards (assuming the Koreans were agreeable, which probably won't happen) than to try to raise the wreakage. Another lower cost alternative would be stationing an ROV and transmitting real time images to a surface location.

I would hope common sense prevails and the Japanese Government refuses the offer.


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## mdh (27 Oct 2008)

> It would probably be cheaper to build a replica at one of the Finnish "super" yards (that build jumbo sized cruise ships) or giant Korean containership yards (assuming the Koreans were agreeable, which probably won't happen) than to try to raise the wreakage. Another lower cost alternative would be stationing an ROV and transmitting real time images to a surface location.
> 
> I would hope common sense prevails and the Japanese Government refuses the offer.



I agree. I think the ROV idea would make an excellent documentary along the lines of Ballard's work. Why disturb a war grave? 

Besides that - although I'm hardly an expert - I'm not sure how you would successfully raise a ship that size without running the danger of having it break apart. It would be an unprecedented venture.  I can't think of any other vessel that size (and age) that has been raised.


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## Kat Stevens (27 Oct 2008)

ironduke57 said:
			
		

> Would be probably quite a sight if they are able to do that. Especially if they could borrow one of the Iowa-class battleship and lay them side by side.
> 
> (P.S.: Does somebody has some money to spare to raise the Bismarck? And then we see all three together making a trip around the world.  8) )
> 
> ...



Throw in Royal Oak and you'd have a real traveling museum.


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## cameron (18 Nov 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Cameron,
> 
> You do realize that this thread is about the MUSASHI, not her sister ship the YAMATO, right?
> ;D


Yes I do thanks, that was a typo ;D


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## old medic (25 Jan 2009)

Well, I guess it was only a matter of time 

Group set to salvage parts of battleship Yamato
BY MASAMI NAKAGAWA, THE ASAHI SHIMBUN
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200901240046.html
2009/1/24


> KURE, Hiroshima Prefecture--Despite jaw-dropping costs and immense technical difficulties, business leaders here plan to salvage parts from the sunken World War II imperial battleship Yamato.
> 
> Officials said the project would help revitalize this area of western Japan.
> 
> ...


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