# C7 Vertical Grips



## JimmyPeeOn (3 Mar 2005)

Anyone know where I can get a vertical grip for the C7 while retaining the "stock" handguards?


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## HItorMiss (3 Mar 2005)

A standard C9 butt grip works well, just have a look and you'll see the slight modifaction you'll have to make

cheers!


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## JimmyPeeOn (3 Mar 2005)

Thoose arent just laying around either!


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## 1feral1 (3 Mar 2005)

JimmyPeOn said:
			
		

> Anyone know where I can get a vertical grip for the C7 while retaining the "stock" handguards?



Detachable vertical fore-grips
They are normally secured by a basic M4A1 RAS mount (KAC for example), more common fit to a M4A1 then a generic C7A1 rifle. Kinda impractical on a 508mm bbl (20in), more suited for carbine/SMG use.


I wound NOT be modifying a C7 to fit one of these. Firstly it will NOT be sanctioned, and using a LMG part not for what it's designed for on another type of weapon is just not on. Several things come into prospective, including your safety, and the safety of others around you.

Just use what you are issued, why draw the crabs to yourself.

Cheers,

Wes


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## JimmyPeeOn (4 Mar 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Detachable vertical fore-grips
> They are normally secured by a basic M4A1 RAS mount (KAC for example), more common fit to a M4A1 then a generic C7A1 rifle. Kinda impractical on a 508mm bbl (20in), more suited for carbine/SMG use.
> 
> 
> ...



Well first off, I'm likely going to be issued a C8, with stock hand guards. I dont wanna go into theatre with half an arsenal in my barracks box either.   Secondly no chance in hell am i going to be using a LMG part. Thirdly I've tried it in full auto with the vert grip, and in my opinion it was priceless, and if anything the safety factor is increased due to the fact it is easier to control.

I guess the title of the thread thould have been C8 vert grips, oops, whatever.
I guess u still can't help me Wes?


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## Britney Spears (4 Mar 2005)

Wes:

A while ago I started a topic on this exact question, and I've since gotten off my lazy ass and actually done it a few times. It's not great, but better than nothing as far as shooting stance goes, although I wouldn't trust it during rough use.  

A lot of the lads seem to agree.




















As far as aquiring an LMG foregrip, well, if you have to ask, you probably don't need it.


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## 1feral1 (4 Mar 2005)

Interesting pics. It must be a QD mod on the lower HG. Being out of the CF loop for +10 yrs, long before the A2s were even thought of?

I guess before any mods are done to your C8, best check with SOPs etc, and see then thru your WTL 421s if a KAC upper and lower HG set can be scrounged, along with a detachable VFG.

We are getting a qty of M4A1s here Unit before June, prior to deployment ourselves.

Cheers,

Wes


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## JimmyPeeOn (4 Mar 2005)

well the SOP's are "we dont have it, but if youve got it and like it use it"  the odds of scrounging handguards are darn near impossible. That's why im looking for something that would fit the normal handguard.





			
				Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> and see then thru your WTL 421s if a KAC upper and lower HG set can be scrounged, along with a detachable VFG.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wes


WTL 421s? KAC??? ugh? little help?


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## Britney Spears (4 Mar 2005)

WTL 421  == Weapons Tech - Land, gun plumbers.

KAC ==  Knights Armament Company. Maker of many superlative weapons and accessories, such as the handguard rail mounts and VFG (vertical foregrip) that you seek. If we were a real army we would have these instead of the Diemaco TRIAD and the mickey mouse C9 buttgrip setup, although I believe that they are now in the system for current operational use as well (could be wrong).

http://www.knightarmco.com/index1.html


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## KevinB (4 Mar 2005)

Yeah we scavanged old C9 grips 
  it was authorised by DLR - but despised by the TF RSM  :

The metal plate on the old C9 grip was cut and used inside the C7 or C8 handguard and the handgrip screwed into it.

For CQB they are excellent tools.

DLR is acquiring suffienct numbers of Tango Down verticle grips and these will be fitted a section of M1913 picatinny rail that will be placed on the C7 handguard - or if you luck out your CO will do what 3VP and 3R22eR did and say - the TRIAD sucks ass and buy KAC RAS's and tell DLR to piss off and they want kit that works not crap for their troops...


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## HItorMiss (4 Mar 2005)

The C9 grip works more then adequate, I have used one on my C7 and C8 since Roto 0 on multipule ranges and attacks.

Yes your right they are not just laying around but I have found that asking nicely of a weap tech if they have an extra one and if they would part with it has met with great result, As for the person going about safety it is totally safe, of the numerous weapons I have seen modded like this none have failed nor can I see a way for them to fail in a catastrophic way as to harm the user.

The Mod is simple remove the tin wrap around of the butt grip (I used a Gerber and some patience) and the bottom screw plate goes into the handguards at the hole you feel most comfortable with and then the grip screws into that.


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## 1feral1 (5 Mar 2005)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> As for the person going about safety it is totally safe, of the numerous weapons I have seen modded like this none have failed nor can I see a way for them to fail in a catastrophic way as to harm the user.
> 
> 
> The Mod is simple remove the tin wrap around of the butt grip (I used a Gerber and some patience) and the bottom screw plate goes into the handguards at the hole you feel most comfortable with and then the grip screws into that.



That person is me, and I have been in the trade since 1977, and I am responsible for 100's upon hundreds of complete rebuilds of the M16 family (M16A1, A2, and M4) in the past 10 yrs alone, not including the C7 and C7A1 from 1989 to 1995. So I know what I am talking about.   

I am not saying it is NOT safe, but if its not authorised for a generic C7 508mm bbl rifle at the the national command. If is authorisesd, fine, but if it isn't and something happens (you shoot your toes, or someone else), or even a 'near miss', thats where the trouble lies. I am not no safety geek pencil kneck by no means, but one cannot do what he wants to weapons, as the safey factor is there, believe me.

Get the direction I am coming from? Having any ole soldier just scrounging parts and doing things themselves to me, this spells trouble. Installation of such should be done with the proper authorisation, and done by EME armourers.

I can't for the life of me, see the CF allowing Joe Blow to mod weapons as they like. Thats some 'hairy assed' shyte if this is happening under the noses of SNCO and WOs within the sections.

On the lighter side, do you know a WO by the name of Verch? I met him here in Australia in 2002, along with some other RCR guys. If you do know him, tell him I said hi. He'll remember me.

Cheers,

Wes


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## JimmyPeeOn (5 Mar 2005)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> The C9 grip works more then adequate, I have used one on my C7 and C8 since Roto 0 on multipule ranges and attacks.
> 
> Yes your right they are not just laying around but I have found that asking nicely of a weap tech if they have an extra one and if they would part with it has met with great result, As for the person going about safety it is totally safe, of the numerous weapons I have seen modded like this none have failed nor can I see a way for them to fail in a catastrophic way as to harm the user.
> 
> The Mod is simple remove the tin wrap around of the butt grip (I used a Gerber and some patience) and the bottom screw plate goes into the handguards at the hole you feel most comfortable with and then the grip screws into that.


Hehehe.  I was a C9 gunner for a while and I would'nt have parted with that grip to save my left nut.  If theres any way to get a hold of one of theese commercaily it would be preferable. 

Wes,  relax, the only way I'm going to have one "up the spout" is if im taking fire, so therefore the odds of my shooting off my toe are pretty minimal, and I hope that anyone with an ounce of common sense would'nt blame a VFG over my own gross neglegence.  Besides as I stated before I'm in a CS unit and my chain said "we dont have them, but if you find one and like it use it!" (Providing I dont have to modify the weapon)  So that leaves it down to bolt on parts, with the exception of the C79 OS.  We can't qualify with anything else on our ranges and I'll be damned if I'm going into theatre with a maladjusted sight.  (Even though its a big chunk of donkey poo)

Cheerz


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## HItorMiss (5 Mar 2005)

Mr Allen

Get where your coming from, and no insult intended on your creds, but it seemed to me that you were saying the mod was NOT safe whereas I was saying that I have seen the mod done and never seen it fail.

I see now what your saying is not that it isn't safe more that should something go wrong regardless of the mod's fault there could be issues with the legality and responsibility because the mod was done.


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## Slobo (8 Jun 2005)

Samco makes a standard foreguard set with Picatinny handrails under removeable covers forthe M4/C8.  Try them (or Bushmaster has them at www.bushmaster.com, part #: FBS-M33).  They also have the grip itself.  Together not exactly cheap, but much cheaper than the grip and a full RAS set.  Not sure about Samco direct and other sources, but the foreguard set and the grip will set you back about US$125 at Bushmaster.


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## Gayson (12 Jun 2005)

A buddy of mine bought a small rail that screws into the holes on the handguard, he then just mounted a vertical grip to it.  No mods to the actual handguard were required.


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## JimmyPeeOn (14 Jun 2005)

Yeah, that's probably the same one I was issued, and am using now.


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## Footie (15 Aug 2005)

Here's a cheap and effective way: got to TDI Arms  http://www.tdi-arms.com

They sell a Picatinny rail strip that attachs directly to a issued C7 handguard. They also sell a variety of attachments including vertical grips.

I bought a single rail and a vertical grip for USD $48 including shipping.


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## Britney Spears (15 Aug 2005)

After you've used it a little, can you give us a quick rundown of the item: How easy was it to install, how solid, etc? Mouting accessories to the standard C7 handguards just doesn't seem to be a very good idea to me, considering how mcuh play those things have.


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## PhilB (16 Aug 2005)

Here is where I bought my VG from - http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/TacticalRails.html. It comes in a package with the rails that mount onto the handguards as stated above. The mod took me about 5 mins to do. Simply slide the screws through the holes on the bottom on the handguard and then tighten. I have used this setup for a little while now both on ranges and on ex. I have had no problems with it at all. Excellant weapon control and very little play. All in all for the price an excellant deal


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## Britney Spears (16 Aug 2005)

Hmm, sounds about right, and I guess it's not a huge deal in the end, but still, mounting stuff to a handguard that falls off when you slap it during drill just makes me nervous for some reason. Don't you notice any different in accuracy when you're torqueing on it? You're shooting from a wobbly bit, after all. I've been thinking about getting a complete rail handguard like the Surefire M73, which  I'm told is rock solid, and also attaches easily without tools, but it's a $200 set of handguards.  


We really need to settle this problem from the root and get 1 piece Monolithic Uppers. That will also solve the handguard falling off during drill problem. I bet morale would improve too.


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (16 Aug 2005)

Is that a real M-4 or is that an airsoft M-4 Ms. Spears?


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## Britney Spears (16 Aug 2005)

It's right <a href=http://www.shoppekeeper.com/lewismachine_catalog/products/cqbmrp>here</a>






Note how the fore end and the upper are one complete piece(you can mount sights and stuff to it, no looseness or play, and the barrel is free floated. The barrel is also quick changable with minimal tools, so even a platoon can carry a few different length barrels in their sea can for different situations.

I'm not sure how much use the barrel changing feature is but the solid free float fore end should be very useful.


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