# QM



## P Kaye (26 Jan 2005)

They're making me QM at my new unit.  Apparently our RQ is a real mess, and they want to get it cleaned up.
I'm not a logicistician.  Does anybody have any suggesetions, or words of advice, that might help me in doing this job well?
Is there any reading I should do (e.g. any relevant PAMS on running unit stores)?


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## AmmoTech90 (26 Jan 2005)

Well the Canadian Forces Supply Manual is available (DIN only) at:
http://lognet.dwan.dnd.ca/dmmd/cfssu/SupplyManual/WebHelp/index.htm
Paras 226/227 is about SCA (supply customer account) holders appointment and responsiblities. (Chap 2, Sect 8)

More general supply info at:
http://lognet.dwan.dnd.ca/DMMD/index_e.asp?Lang=e&Content=PUBS

As well it would probably be a good idea to make contact with the Base Supply Customer Services cell, some info here:
http://cfsuo.mil.ca/ts/supply/sag_e.asp?choice=sup

All of the above are DIN links

Good luck.


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## P Kaye (26 Jan 2005)

Hey, thanks a lot!
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the DIN at my day job (even though I work for an agency of DND, we use a different system than the DIN).
Could I trouble you for a huge favour?  Could you email those docs to me at my CSE email (sending it to a CSE email is safe, as our employees are all Secret or Top Secret cleared, and our system is VERY secure).
My email address is phillip.kaye@cse-cst.gc.ca.
Thanks a lot!
P.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Jan 2005)

In all honesty, see if you can get a day or two of shadowing the RQMS of another unit; best way to learn is through experience.   The manuals won't help you much though they may give you some basic ideas.  I understand you are the QM rather than the RQMS, but if you can find a good senior WO in your area to give you a hand, I am sure you would benefit from it (and most RQMS would love the opportunity to show you how good they are at what they do).


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## pcain (26 Jan 2005)

Couple of things: 

 - Don't worry about not being a logistician: at the time I did the job, supply officers weren't trained how to be a unit QM either. Being appointed QM officer of a militia unit after leadership training (but no MOC training) is a fairly typical fate for logistics 2Lts in the militia. 

 - I found the biggest liability was being a part-time supervisor of full-time troops: responsibility without power is a scary thing, when you think about it.

 - Also, particularly on a student income, I was always concerned with liability for the unit's DA account. I had DA account dreams â â€œ really. 

A Class A QM officer at the Royal Regiment of Canada, who'd been gouged for some kit deficiencies on his watch, ordered that no kit was going to be issued except under his personal supervision, changed the lock on the stores, and took away the only key. This is hardball, but it's hard to blame him.   This was ten or fifteen years ago now. 

I would: 

	1) have a fairly serious talk with your CO about your financial responsibility for kit and leadership responsibility for soldiers. Also about field-based training: it can be hard to get any field time as an officer with no place on a subunit's orbat. 

	2) Be very hard-assed about signing for the DA account. Count every last damn thing, even if you're counting into the dark long night. If it rubs people the wrong way, screw 'em: it's your stones on the line, not theirs. If you feel you need legal advice, get legal advice. I'm serious: it's not the worst idea. 

That said, the job is fairly straightforward: find out who you're responsible for supplying, what they want and when. Also what they might want, if they knew they could ask for it â â€œ this costs you nothing, and buys goodwill. Make them file lists as far in advance as possible, but don't be a jerk about last-minute changes: just make sure they know you're doing them a favour. Make sure they have a good idea of what kinds of support you can provide: if you have three widgets on a shelf, you want them to know they can ask for up to three widgets. Find out what supply paperwork your higher headquarters wants and when: your CO, who wants to think about this sort of thing as little as possible, will thank you for doing it right the first time. Or he should, anyway. Develop informal contacts at your supporting base, and find a couple of bucks to buy supply NCOs coffee. You want to know about things like: what things you do irritate them and why, what unused opportunities they know about and you don't, stuff like that. Also, 638 cards take up less room than kit. 

Make friends with everybody   - just don't trust anybody, ever. Ever. Assume everybody is a criminal, and you might be fine. 

Also, don't do the job so well you're stuck in it forever â â€œ having said that, combat service support is a good way of finding out how the army really works. It's not the worst way of spending a certain amount of time as a very junior officer.


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## P Kaye (27 Jan 2005)

Thanks for all your advice pcain!  Question: what is the "RA account" ?


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## pcain (27 Jan 2005)

Terminology may be out of date, but the unit distribution account (DA) is, or at least used to be, the way of keeping track of the equipment issued to a unit by the supply system: ie. the King's Own Pickle Lake Fusiliers have 129 bags, sleeping, 58 cans, water, black*, and so on for pages and pages. Ideally, they do in fact have all the things on the list. This is what you (and your CO) are responsible for keeping track of. 

* in Evelyn Waugh's version of the formulation: chamber-pot, india-rubber, officers, insane, for the use of


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## Bin-Rat (9 Feb 2005)

Well, here would be my suggestion...
if you have signed over as the DA holder (Distribution Account) holder, I would suggest going or getting hold of your supporting base, and asking the customer services section for a Current MIUSR (Material In -Use Status Report) This list will include all class A- and class B material, these are the items you mainly worry about, and do a complete stock check, make sure all items on that MIUSR are accounted for before you sign over, or YOU'LL be responible for them as you  are now the hold of that account.
While doing this account and making sure everything is accounted for, also check make sure all SERIAL NUMBER cards are correct. And that you have all the correct serial numbers.
When you do your stock check, there are a few way's items can be listed if not physical in building..
1- do a physical account.. if correct, goto next item on list..
2- If not correct check your DND 638 Temporary Issue cards signed out to individuals, see if any are then signed out..
Again if physical and DND 638 account for item, then continue.. If not, 
3-Check your 1020 List see what has been sent into base supply for repair, you should have a copy of the 1020 on file, Untill the item is classified as BER or BLR the item is still on your account so you are still respoinble for it.. (ber=Beyond Economical repair) (blr=Beyond local repair) again if number's add up, next item...
4-if not on Physical, DND638, 1020 sent for repair, then go to the documents, and check to see if there was a return to base. Sometime these aren't processed right away, but you shoul have a copy of the CF2302 showing the return to base.

Now if after you have checked all these things and you are still short, Hmm time to worry, no, what you'll have to do is then go back to the previous stocktaking and see if or where the item s where listed then, and investigate it as to where the item has been since then, and you should find it.

Now, I'll give ya a short thing with Material... things are classified as 4 classes.. Class A,B,C,D
Class A items are all major items, Like Trucks, Planes, Tanks... these items are class A
Class B are items that are $50 or more and have a repair potential, for example, rifles, radio's, Binos
Class C items are items like pens, papper, notepads, non accountable, and are expanable...
Class D items are Less then $50, have no repair potential, Are expendable, but are controlled, Now with this one, is like Batteries, C,D cell, the way they controll these is, you give me 4 dead batteries I'll give you 4 good batteries, Umm, these are non accountable, so they don't show up on your MIUSR..

As for that, running a Qm operation isn't that bad at all, I was a Mcpl, and I ran the Qm for the Armoured regiment, I was with, the RQ wasn't qualified as a supply tech, so he just had the title, but what happened there was basiclly my call so...
As someone mentioned earlier, you'll have alot of friends, but trust no one.. is good advice, people are alway's looking for things to trade with other people, Like I can get you a Winter parker, for a Camp Cot, Both items are class B, Accountable.. but, if they think they can get away with it, they will.. Just remember if you take over the account as DA holder, YOUR responible for them...
ya have any other questions or inquires Just ask, been awhile since I was released, but the knowledge is still there... can't get it out of my mind, heh heh heh....
Best of luck...


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## P Kaye (9 Feb 2005)

Thanks for all your suggestions... however it turns out I'm not going to be QM after all... they've found another job more suitable for my trade...


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## caine737 (16 Feb 2005)

my little funny advice

For everybody entering your QM ask them to clap their hand above their head,if u don't ear the clapping it's because they are filling there pocket...lol


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## babybear (23 Oct 2006)

I read with great interest all your suggestions regarding QM and RQMS. I spent 34 years in the military in the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps. Worked my way up to RQMS. In my day The QM and all the staff were supply trained normally from the RCOC School in Montreal and after that at CFSAL in Borden. A lot of our forms had different numbers than the ones you are quoting except I do remember we had the 638 Temporary Issue Card. My heavens it's great to read some of the same old stuff we went through.


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## AmmoTech90 (24 Oct 2006)

Welcome to Army.ca babybear, hope you enjoy your stay.

Sua tela tonanti

D


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## a78jumper (14 Dec 2006)

A couple of hints................

As much as people hate higher HQ's, your Bde HQ has a G4 cell, complete with among other things a G4 Sup that may be a wealth of information and assistance. They should visit formally once a year, but invite them around for a coffee if they are nearby.

If the place is a "mess" (and I saw a few in my time a G4 Ops at a Res Bde HQ) do not be afraid to ask for the resources ie Class A days to clean it up. If your unit is short such, ask for some from Bde, I do not think they are going to say no if you put forth a good case why you need them. A good time of the year especially is the last two months of the FY ie Feb/Mar when someone somewhere will suddenly decide they are not going to expend all their Class A $$$. Get a Class B Assistant RQ if you do not have one.

Couple of hints from personal experience as a QM, both Reg and Reserve. Count ALL the weapons yourself quarterly-nothing will get you in trouble quicker than misplaced weapons. Right after that is ammo issues-if you are submitting writeoffs, be damn certain it was used. People that mess around with either of the afrementioned need to be fired.

If you are near a larger city with a reserve Svc Bn  seek out a couple of Sup Techs if you have none to be assigned to your unit for a year or so-it will broaden their perspective and you will gain a soldier that has some supply tech expertice.


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