# Married Service Couples [MSC]



## Tyrnagog (3 Oct 2004)

I was wondering...  for all of you who are joining and have kids..

How did you explain what you were doing/why you were going to be away for 4+ months to them?  Especially if they are young?

Looks like I may be going in January as DEO (Sig O) and I have a 3 year old daughter, who is quite the "daddy's girl"..  Any ideas how I can explain to her why I am going to be away for the next year or so in a way that she understands and yet isn't completely freaked out?

Or is this just one of those things you can't really explain to someone so young and I just need to let her deal with it in her own way?

Thanks for the feedback, stories and advice!


----------



## Bert (3 Oct 2004)

In my opinion, the best way to deal with it is to provide a suitable description of what
you're going to do and achieve to your daughter.  

Then during the course, keep the lines of communication open.  Invest in a digital camera.
Depending on your course, what you can bring and computer access, send letters, e-mail,
and pictures as often as you can.  With the help of the wife and family, you'll always
be on your daughter's mind.  Helps you too.  Make trips home when you can.  Keep
a positive attitude.  Your career choice is as much for you as it is for your daughter (family).


----------



## winchable (3 Oct 2004)

Definetly try and explain it to her.
My father explained it to me when I was that age and I managed to get it.
"Daddys job is very important and he has to go away for a long time, but that's to keep you and your sister safe."

I'm not a child psychologist though..so maybe they'll think that if daddys not away they're not safe...
I shouldn't be allowed to reproduce should I?

Defintely make the attempt to explain it in some detail though, if that doesn't work just gradually explain it to her over the years.


----------



## Scott (3 Oct 2004)

My Dad was away on and off (MP) from the time I was born until he got out when I was 12, he then got a job with Transport Canada and was away all through his career with them. I turned out just fine. Missed him when he was overseas but I have fond memories of some of his buddies coming to take me to hockey games and the like. Now, I am the one who kind of likes being away. I don't mind going to courses with my job or on extended projects away from home and I think that because I was used to someone being gone alot while I was growing up that it sort of rubbed off on me as being normal. It's good for some and not for others, I'm just one of the ones who didn't really mind it.


----------



## Spazkatt (21 Oct 2004)

Hello, all.
I was wondering is anyone was willing to share their experiences regarding enrolling with the CF and the impact it had or might have with their fledgeling families. This would be a major deciding factor for me and would find it interesting to see how others have handled it.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## gun plumber (21 Oct 2004)

I was enrolled reg force in 02 with a common law wife and a newborne son.To her credit,my wife was in the reserves,and had some idea of what the life was about.We had our "disscusions"about it and it's now going on 6 yrs + and 2 postings later and both she and my son are loving it.
My advice.....Keep your wife informed and involved.It saves alot of "disscusions"later on if she knows whats going on.


----------



## Fruss (21 Oct 2004)

Here's something a MCpl wrote from when he learned he was going to Afghanistan until August 2004..  He shares how he dealt with his family life...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_storring/


----------



## Kris (28 Oct 2004)

Hello,

Hi I am looking into joining the cf and my husband is in the regf.  Can anyone tell me what it would be like with both parents in the forces?  We also have 1 year old child.  I have looked everywhere for some info on this topic and can't find anything.

Thanks


----------



## gun plumber (28 Oct 2004)

It all depends on if you want to go Reg or Reserve.If it's Reg you seek theres already a topic on the go you might want to check out.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/21623.0.html
If it's reserve's I can speak from experience.Upon transfer to the regular force,my wife came to Borden with me and transfered to the Air reserves in Borden.With the exception of the courses she had to redo(side note-It was retarded!my wife was Qual'd QL 5 in the Militia with 10 yrs experience in trade !they made her redo he QL3 over!)our life and that of our son was not drastically affected.It was actually kinda good because I would get her to exchange kit for me!
But,if you do decide to follow the reserve route,be prepared for seperation on short courses(6-8 wks,and field ex's)This is par for course as the courses might not be offered through your unit or even on the same base.
Personal note-My wife's QL3 was CB'd (confined to barracks)almost every day :.Where we lived on base was a 2 minute drive from her barracks.On a 6 month course I saw my wife 4 times!But this is not the norm.
Hope you persue it,nothing bonds people like sharing adversity.And the second income helps too!


----------



## Kris (28 Oct 2004)

Thanks for some info, I already looked at the thread that was given above. 

 I have done the separation with a tour to Bosnia about two years ago.  Now I have been off with my child for almost a year and I am looking into joining the reserves as a clerk. 

I have heard that you may not have to do the 10 weeks BT but may be able to on weekends and the summer?  Is any of this true?  Is there somewhere I might find some more info on that?

Is there anyone else that have both parents in the cf?


----------



## Spazkatt (8 Nov 2004)

Hello...just to update...and to refresh this post... ^-^     Thanks Frank for that link. I read the stories and found them very interesting and thought provoking. I did bring the possibility of joining the CF to my wife, and to my surprise was quite supportive! Not so much in regards to reg force; at least not just yet. Reserves, however seems to be a viable option. So, away to the recruiters in Hamilton I went, and began the process. (Mentally, at least. Still gotta get my bod workin' properly). I will visit a few reserve units in my area and get a feel for things!   Away we go!


----------



## Jason E (20 Dec 2004)

Hello all,

This is my first posting here on this forum.

I've read through just about everything I can find on CF Armoured, but haven't found all the information I need to make my decission.

I haven't yet applied to CF, even though I've been thinking about it for over a year.

Here's my issue and question:

I'm 32 years old and married with 3 young children. I've thought about joining the forces most of my life, but around a year ago, (unhappy with my current occupation) I started to look at what I really want and enjoy in life.

I think that Forces life is for me, but what about my family?

My wife has told me that she doesn't really like the idea, when I ask her about it it seems that she mostly doesn't like the idea of me being away all the time and she has said that she doesn't want to move around every four years.

So, that's my question.

How often do armoured soldiers need to move and how much time (on average) could I expect to be away?

Thank you,
Jason


----------



## Recce41 (20 Dec 2004)

First off
 You'll be gone for about 6-9 months for your first year. That is from Basic training to DP1( trades training). You will then be posted to a Regt. You could be posted ether to Petawawa Ont with the Royal Canadians Dragoons , Edmonton with the Lord Strathconia Horse (RC), or Valcartier with the 12 RBC if you are Francaphone.
 You may then go on a tour, 3 months of training then 6-7 month tour. You will get a 2-3 week leave between the second and 5 month to come home. Then back. You maybe sent on taskings or exercise for 1-3 months. It is not like the old days the exercises were upto 5 months long. You will/may be on a in house course run by the Regt or away on course. Again 1-3 months. 
 As for postings, you may stay in one spot for yrs or get posted every 3-5 yrs. It is the only job that you may get off to take your kids to the doc, or school assemblies, or get 3 weeks off for Christmas, and 3 weeks of in the summer, and may get a week for March. There are family support groups. And the Family resource centres is great. 
 On Base there are places for the kids, a gym, pool, etc and all for 8$ a month. You cannot get that on civie street. Pay is not bad about 2000$/M for the first yr then goes up after. But gets better after you become a Cpl in 3-4 Yrs. Dental, Med, etc is pay for you and your family med program is also good. My wife served 12 yrs also. After your wife sees the benefits, she may/will understand. It is always hard for the first 3 yrs. As another job.
E mail me I can fill you in more. 
 As one of the old guys here and a family I maybe able to help.


----------



## Zirus (20 Dec 2004)

Recce41 
 I also would Like to join an armoured division!

I'm currently posted in the regiment of Hull (reserves)(armoured)
and would like to know at my age (18) once I'm done the 3 Hard years you mentioned
would i be good for family life afterwards!? and i would like to know a little more about the stuff kids can do on bases?
is it possible for my wife(when i have one) to work on the base?
Can we live on the base?(wife and kids)


any help would be appreciated!

thx 
soldat Fiset out!


----------



## George Wallace (20 Dec 2004)

Zirus

If you are in the Regiment du Hull, you can easily find out these things first hand.  Ask your RSS Officer or NCO's and they will be more than happy to enlighten you.  You are also in the National Capital Region and can witness first hand members of the Armed Forces and what facilities they have for them and their families.

GW


----------



## veiled scout (24 Dec 2004)

Ok
So you want to join, as stated by the previous people all is somewhat true, depending on what regiment you join etc will depend on the tempo of yoour training. As for family life, I believe it is crucial to belong to a Regiment that looks after it's people and takes care of them while they (you) are deployed. You do not go away as much as you think you do, it is dependant on an issue called the ATOF cycle (which I won't get into). Most time will be spent in garrison after you have completed your trades training. If you do get tasked out (at least until the rank of Cpl) it will be limited and in the capacity of a driver or storeman, but those positions are far and few. Once you reach the rank of MCpl and above, expect to get tasked during the summer, but that would not be for sometime, if at all. Once you hit an operational cycle, it is very structured and there are certain timelines and milestones that must be achieved (again I won;t expand on this). The bottom line is that there is more support for you and your family then any other civilian organization out there. Don't believe me? Phone any of the bases in Canada and ask the base operator for the number to "Family resource centre" then ask one of the people that work there as to what services are offered or better yet check out the web link:

http://www.pmfrc.org/
Anyway I hope this helps in your final choice as to what you want to do, but don't let people fool you about the military, it does and will take care of you and yoour family!

TANKS


----------



## Recce41 (24 Dec 2004)

Scout
 Remember there are more tasks for drivers at the school now. Somewhat true?


----------



## Carpenter (26 Dec 2004)

I have applied as a DEO Infantry candidate.   Can anyone tell me what happens for leave during the training process?   I have been told that everyone in the CF has vacation time that needs to be used, but the 'when' part is what puzzles me.   Thanks for any input.


----------



## Bert (28 Dec 2004)

During your training, you'll accumulate leave time.  The current rules are all of your
accumulated leave for that fiscal year must be used up evenly in that fiscal year,
preferrably not taken all at the end of the year.  How it is used is up to you
and your chain of command.  Carry-over is no longer allowed.

However, if at the end of the fiscal year you cannot take the accumulated
leave and have good reason, your CO may under his/her discretion allow the 
leave to be carried over into the next year.

From personal experience and those of others, the military will not cheat you
of leave but make sure your chain of command is aware of the situation.


----------



## SHELLDRAKE!! (28 Dec 2004)

Usually your leave in the training period is best used evenly after your courses are completed and at christmas time, once you are in a unit,
you will have to base it around excercises and courses but usually there is a "block" leave period in the summer and winter where your unit does not schedule courses/training.As for what to tell your little ones, alot of people going on tours have run into this as children of different ages react differently to their parent(s) being away but as others have said, with emails,letters and phone calls and plenty of quality time before and after your training, kids are strong and understanding, dont worry about it too much because it will only cause you stress that you dont need on top of training.


----------



## FreeFloat (12 May 2005)

I'm currently a Army Reservist, and my fiancé is applying for the Regular Force to go Infantry.  He had initially been considering going Reserve first then doing a Component Transfer, but is so keen on the idea that he changed his application to Reg F.

Thing is, I had been contemplating going Reg F myself, but it's Navy trades that I picked.

I'm sitting on my application while I decide.  To me, staying with him is more important than getting in the Forces full time.  After all, I'm already a Reservist, so if he went Regs I could transfer units to wherever he's posted.

I know that these days, the Forces makes a decent effort to keep married service couples together whenever possible, but I can't think of any units/bases in Canada that can accommodate a Navy spouse and an Army (Infantry) spouse and still keep them together.  I don't know of any mixed-element couples although I can imagine it could happen if a) one spouse is a Reservist, or b) one spouse is a service support trade i.e. Cook, Clerk, regardless of element.  Hard Sea and pointy-end Land, I can't quite see happening.

Someone enlighten me please? if this in fact could work?


----------



## Infanteer (12 May 2005)

Considering Infantry billets are in Edmonton, Shiloh, Pet, Valcartier, and Gagetown and the Navy is in Esquimalt and Halifax, I'd say your SOL.


----------



## FreeFloat (12 May 2005)

That's more or less what I was thinking.............

Tough choice isn't it!

I was just speaking casually to my supervisor and he said he knew of one married service couple (MSC) where the "he" was an Inf Offr and "she" was a MARS, and they got posted to Valcartier I think, where "she" took on an RSS posting with a local reserve unit....... of course, they were Officers, things may indeed be different for us NCMs!


----------



## 28Medic (12 May 2005)

Hi
I am a Reserve Army Med A(NCM), and my husband just went Reg Force Pilot...I am thinking of changing to an Airforce trade once we move just to make things easier on us when we start moving. I like the army way of things but it just might make it simpler and I won't have to travel as far to find an army reserve unit to parade with.
But I am un-decided on whether I should even stay in, since he will be away on trg a lot for the first while and it will be difficult to parade because of our three kids.  I am close to getting my CD, so I might try to tought it out...
Good luck with your decision....it won't be easy!


----------



## Canadian Sig (22 May 2005)

Makes me glad that me and my wife are in the same trade.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (22 May 2005)

It all dpends.  If you went such trades as clerk, cook, supply tech  etc then you could have a better chance of serving in the same trade.  I knew a navy cook that had never been to sea.


----------



## shadow (22 May 2005)

I know clerks of all elements can be posted just about anywhere.  You can be navy and get posted to Petawawa, it's been done.  The trade is pretty much the same no matter what element. People will just look at you funny when you're on parade  
You didn't mention which navy trades you were looking at?


----------



## Harris (22 May 2005)

The new RSS Officer at my Unit (West NSR) and his wife are both from different trades.  He's Infantry and she is Navy.  They live in Halifax and he travels to Aldershot every day to work.  So it can be done.


----------



## Thompson_JM (23 May 2005)

We've had a husband and wife team in our unit for a few years.. granted they are both Reg F CSS Types, one is a Clerk and the Other a Sup Tech. I've noticed it tends to be easier to move people when they are purple trades since they can go anywhere. 

It sounds to me like youre probabbly going to have some trouble making that one work. But best of luck!


----------



## bossi (23 May 2005)

The majority of mixed MOC/environment marriages that I've run across usually involve one spouse in a svc sp MOC.  As stated previously, clerks/cooks/bin rats/etc. can be employed virtually anywhere.  

And, with regard to the comment about married officers, yes - it's true - officers can "look forward" to staff or HQ postings, where there's a little bit more leeway - however, having said that, any rank who's just starting their career shouldn't hold their breath for postings away from their primary environment (e.g. ship/Navy, field/Army, airfield/Air Force).

Best of luck!


----------



## shokuten (23 Jun 2005)

OK, I'm leaving in august for my basic at St-Jean, I'll be done in October and Probably be sent to my next training session when ever, but heres the thing..

My sister is getting married in March of 2006, and most likely I'll be doing something in the army (i hope) she wants me to attend, and i just want to know Can i get leave for something like that? How does the army work for situations like that?

thanks for any help and sorry for any bad grammar and spelling mistakes


----------



## wotan (23 Jun 2005)

I'm presuming you're joing the Reg F, so my response will based on that premise.

Your trg takes precedence over everything else, full stop.  That said, if you are between crses or are completed your trg by that pt in time, you MAY be granted lve.  This doesn't mean you WILL be granted lve, but it is something that your CO or OC can consider, just like for any other soldier.

If your sister resides in the same location as your next of kin (if you are single and don't have kids, your NOK is Mom and Dad), than you may be eligible for Lve Travel Assistance (LTA) that will offset some of the cost of travelling "home" as defined under CBI 209.50.

The long and short of it is, if you are in trg (Recruit or Trades), don't bank on getting lve.  If you are between crses or have reported in to your new unit after Trades Training, there is the possibility of being granted lve.  But, if you are in this for the long haul, get used to missing birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, deaths, and all sorts of family occasions.  

That said, best of luck on your courses and congratulations to your sister.  Cheers.


----------



## shokuten (23 Jun 2005)

thanks thats everything i was looking for

cheers!


----------



## wotan (23 Jun 2005)

You're very welcome.  Always better to ask than to be out there wondering.  Cheers.


----------



## Wanting2Join (23 Nov 2007)

My husband is currently a reservist, he served overseas and upon his return has put in for a component transfer to the Reg Force. I am in the process of joining the Reserves, but have considered joining the Regs. We have 4 children ranging in ages from 9 months to 14 years. 
Are there any other families in this forum that have 2 parents that are in the Regs? Or any other Moms that are in the Regs? I'm wondering how to handle being in the military full time, with children. It is possible? What kind of support is available? Does the military assist with child care if you have to train on weekends, or do we find our own sitters? etc etc...
Thanks in advance.


----------



## geo (23 Nov 2007)

The CF does have and offers some family service resources BUT, this will depend on the area of the country where you are based.

Both in the Regs:
Depending on the trades you and your husband have, things can sometimes be dicey - instances where he will be posted to one base while you are posted to another..... not too bad when the two locations are within a day's drive of each other but, when you are at either end of the country.... not good. 
One Reg, one Res:
A lot depends on the Reserve units that exist near where your husband gets posted... but you will have a bit more control on where you go and what you do & when you are available for work.


----------



## exgunnertdo (23 Nov 2007)

My husband and I both transferred from the Reserves to Reg a couple of years ago.  We have two kids who (at the time) were 2 and 4.  Some factors that made it easy/easier for us:

-we were granted BOTP/IAP bypass due to time and trg in the PRes
-we both changed classifications, but to jobs that are primarily OT, so our training courses were filled with people with time in, spouses (civi and mil), and children (there were only 2 people on my course without kids, and the rest of us had kids ranging from 2 weeks to 16 years old).  The climate was more "family friendly" than a course filled with 20 ish single guys
-with a combined experience of nearly 35 years in the PRes, we knew our way around the regulations and administration, making it significantly easier to navigate the CFRC processes, then the training system after that.

If your husband is combat arms, he will get (according to current policy, anyway) a direct transfer to the RegF, in the rank that he wore in Afghanistan.  If there are complications and he has to do some training (SQ, trades training etc) then you joining the RegF (or even the Res) will be that much more difficult.  Basic level stuff like SQ and basic combat arms trades courses are not family friendly, you would be expected to sort out your child care arrangements so that he could do his training.  If you are on a course at the same time, like BMQ, then you will need a very reliable grandparent or something to help.  If he gets to go straight to the Regt or Battalion, it will be easier.

The system tends to be fairly supportive of service couples, but does not bend over backwards to make your life easy.  You are still expected to be a responsible soldier, sailor or airperson and manage your personal life.  You are responsible for day-to-day child care, including weekends if you have to work.  But, if you're both RegF, there is a provision that if you are both sent away at the same time (to the field on ex, on a course, on TD or on deployment), they will pay the extra child care, over and above your regular child care.  You still have to make the arrangements, they won't deliver a bonded, insured, reference-checked babysitter to your door.  There is a program with the MFRC that will find you emergency child care, for the first few days, if, say hubby is away and you are called away on short notice.  With this program, you still have to pay for it, and you have to get your "emergency family care plan" going (fly a grandparent in or whatever) cause their support is only for a couple of days.

Most career managers are pretty good about keeping couples together, since keeping them apart is expensive.  But you have to be flexible.  For example, if your hubby is combat arms, and you insist to your career manager that you don't want to go to Shilo, Pet, Gagetown, etc.  You're asking for trouble.

Bottom line, if you are willing to work with the system, and not fight it every step of the way, it's a great life.  There are complications, but there are complications with every family choice you make.  Expect the first couple of years to be tough, while you get trained.   

Feel free to PM me if you want to ask more specifics, or just to chat about experiences.


----------



## Wanting2Join (24 Nov 2007)

Thank you for your input. 

It's a hard decision to make. We have a large family and all my relatives live over 2000km away on the east coast. Finding committed babysitters is difficult and I never want to get into a situation where I'm unreliable due to child care issues. That's why I'm trying to get input from couples/moms that are currently in this situation before I make any decisions.

I'm currently going through the recruitment process to join the reserves, but may want to join the Regs in the future, if it's suitable.

Could you elaborate on this "emergency family care plan"? What is this exactly?


----------



## exgunnertdo (24 Nov 2007)

I think its official title is "Family Care Plan" or FCP.  It's a one page form on your file.  Everyone in the CF is supposed to fill it out.  I even did one as a Class A reservist.  You are to state that either you have nobody that you are responisble to care for (children or elderly parents, whatever) or you have people you care for and then you either state that you have arrangements but choose not to disclose the arrangements, or you state who your emergency caregivers are, where they live etc.  This form is then filed on your pers file.  It serves two purposes - it "forces" the member to think about the situation, by suggesting they put it in writing, and in the worst case scenario, the CoC can look at your FCP and call your emergency caregiver (whether it's a friend, neighbour, grandparent, other relative, etc) to look after your kids, if you can't.

In our case, our FCP has both of our mothers on it, and they would both drop everything and fly out to help if they were needed.  Committed extended family is essential, along with managing the risk.  I'm in a trade that doesn't deploy much (we do a bit, but we rely on volunteers, and there are enough people to volunteer), and hubby is in a trade that does deploy a fair bit, but unlikely to deploy on a moments notice.  He travels a fair bit with his current posting, I don't.  That could change next posting, who knows.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Wanting2Join (24 Nov 2007)

Thanks so much, I do have 1 other question. The cost of flying a relative out to care for children, is it covered by the parents (me)? I'm positive it is, but have to clarify.

thanks


----------



## armyvern (24 Nov 2007)

Wanting2Join said:
			
		

> Thanks so much, I do have 1 other question. The cost of flying a relative out to care for children, is it covered by the parents (me)? I'm positive it is, but have to clarify.
> 
> thanks



Yes, this is the members own financial responsibility.

NOTE TO MARRIED SERVICE COUPLES:

It is extremely unadviseable to list your "service spouse" as the *emergency* familycare provider on your own FCP ... and have the other "service spouse" listing you as the *emergency* familycare provider on their FCP.

It's happened ... and that couple is dealing with those consequences now. As far as I'm concerned, that should have been picked up by the OR and the form bounced back as unacceptable when it was submitted for inclusion onto their files.

The intent is to list an *emergency* familycare provider who would be available on "XX" number of hours notice should you be required to RFD or deploy in an _emergency_ situation, if this situation should be a war etc ... why the fuck would you ever list your service spouse (who is also subject to, and may be) deployed on that emergency as well? (Their trade doesn't usually deploy?? _That was the reason given for the listing of their svc spouse as the emergency provider in the above sit _ -- think again -- think Ice Storm etc).

Use these forms properly!! They are EMERGENCY familycare plans. When you are slated to deploy on an Op ... and your spouse on a course which occurs during your deployment, both of which you are advised about months in advance ... does not constitue an emergency.


----------



## Bubbs25 (30 May 2010)

Good day all,

Unsure if this is the right place to post this but im sure you'll point me in the right direction.
I am awaiting a posting to borden to do my ACS TECH 3's in Borden, Since I have a service spouse, is there anyway that she could be posted with me for the duration of my 3's or will I have to attend the course on IR. Is there anyway that I could get her attach posted with me for the duration and posted to my Base/Wing after my 3's.
I have 2 small children as well.  Will it be in the best interest of the CF to post her after my 3's or with me on my 3's.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.  

Bubbs 25


----------



## REDinstaller (30 May 2010)

The Career Mangers always state during their breifings that they have no obligations to post service spouses as a couple. What trade is she? And how long is your QL3? These are usually determining factors in posting your DF & E. When your course message come out it will state any limitations, and sometimes dependant on course "The movement of DF & E is Restricted" Just wait until your message arrives and have your CoC explain it to you.


----------



## Bubbs25 (30 May 2010)

My spouse is an MSE Op. I do 2 months manditory common core and 9 months for my 3's. As well like i mentioned we have 2 young children, not of school age yet.  Do you think this could be a factor as well.


----------



## PMedMoe (30 May 2010)

Your _spouse_* can always request a posting to be co-located with you but it may not probably won't happen until after your QL3 course, to avoid two cost moves in a short period of time.

*Note:  You do not request that your spouse be posted (or attach posted), she does.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 May 2010)

Another thing to consider is how close it is to people proceeding on postings this APS.  Her CM would have had to figure out his/her posting plot long ago.  This might make your wife's CM alittle more reluctant to post/attach post her.

Note that, with attach postings, IIRC it is VERY rare to get a move of D, HG & E.

Not all Career Managers are uncaring.  I can't speak for any other trade but...the CWOs in my trade are excellent with stuff like this, from what I've seen so far (which is less than many in my trade at this time).

Having said that, it never hurts for her to ask, and the worst that can happen is...nothing.


----------



## StevenCL (16 Aug 2010)

Good morning,

     I'm a MARS Officer posted to Halifax and my wife is a qualified Social Worker considering joining the RegF as a Social Work Officer.  The only concern we have is about postings once she's done basic training and working as a Social Work Officer.  On the surface it would seem to me like it wouldn't be that hard to post a Social Work Officer anywhere they can post a MARS Officer and word having met a few service couples during my career it would seem like the trend is to try to post service couples together.  My question is, is there any reference or document that states that the powers that be must try to do this as much as possible?  I can't seem to find anything.  While we're both excited about the prospect of her joining up and not having to give up a job in the even I get posted away one day it'd be nice to have a bit more confidence that we wouldn't be separated beyond normal training/deployment or my sailing schedule.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Steve


----------



## PMedMoe (16 Aug 2010)

There is nothing in writing that states that they must post service couples together.  That being said, they do attempt to when they can, depending on positions available.  What you do have in your favor is being from two completely different trades in the CF.  That being said, be prepared for the possibility of a separate posting.


----------



## aesop081 (16 Aug 2010)

StevenCL said:
			
		

> it'd be nice to have a bit more confidence that we wouldn't be separated beyond normal training/deployment or my sailing schedule.



The military offers no guarantees that you will be posted to the same location. Career managers try to post service couples together as much as possible but the needs of the service come first, thus they are under no obligation to do so.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (16 Aug 2010)

StevenCL said:
			
		

> . . .  On the surface it would seem to me like it wouldn't be that hard to post a Social Work Officer anywhere they can post a MARS Officer . . .



While you can't swing a dead cat in Halifax (or Esquimalt) without hitting a MARS officer there may be only limited positions for a Social Work Officer.  Granted these locations have greater military populations and will undoubtedly have a larger social work contingent, however that does not guarantee that there will be a vacancy to coincide with your posting there.  Her career manager may have other ideas; there could be shortfalls in other locations.  At one time (before much of the consolidation in the last decade plus) it was very common to find only one social worker at a base.


----------



## Maritimegal (26 Aug 2010)

Hi I am interested in joining as a social worker myself and my husband is Reg F army officer. I was talking to a Major who is a social worker and I was basically told that they will do their best to keep couples together, but it's not a guarantee. She also said it's important to decide whose career is more important because they may keep you together, but one of you may not be offered a posn that will help you work towards the next rank.


----------



## Dissident (22 Oct 2010)

The decision was made that the wife and I could not go together for TF1-11. So she is going and I am not. Somewhat of a bummer, but life goes on.

I am rather curious, how many (married?) service couples have deployed together? How many from the same unit?


----------



## FDO (22 Oct 2010)

My wife and I were to be deployed at the same time. We were in the same MOG but different ships. She got to go and I had to stay back to watch the kids. She got the better deal!!


----------



## ModlrMike (22 Oct 2010)

I can't answer the specific question you asked, but I can give you some insight into how the decision might have been arrived at. On my last two tours, I had two married couples working for me. For one couple, one member stayed home as the parent. The other couple deployed together, but to separate locations. The deployed couple had only infrequent contact while in theatre due to their physical separation.


----------



## TimBit (22 Oct 2010)

rant on:

And that is why, although there is much hype about the service couple in the CF nowadays, it is NOT a functional model for a military. I say, that the cornerstone of our military remains logically the one-serving-member-per-family-couple. 

It's all fine and dandy to deploy in rotation in today's small, expeditionary mission, but in a larger more "conventional" war like those of yester years, either married couples with children would face the risk of being sent off to war and having their children orphaned, or they would not be deployed simultaneously which completely thwarts the purpose of being in the military in the first place. Would canadian population really stand for children being orphaned when both parents die in an operation? Me thinks not.

So it bothers me slightly when service couples get such great conditions and benefits while traditional one-serving-member families haven't got much anything new, really...

/rant off.

Now that I'm off ranting mode... I haven't really got anything to say...


----------



## ajp (22 Oct 2010)

When I was on tour there was a Svc Couple that had overlapping tours.  One going in a few months before the other came out.  The kicker was that her son was inbound as well.  If I recall, she saw each of them for a visit just prior to her returning home.


----------



## Journeyman (22 Oct 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> So it bothers me slightly when service couples get such great conditions and benefits while *traditional  one-serving-member families haven't got much anything new, really*...


How long has that "tradition" been dead? _Traditionally_, men could abuse women (google the belief behind the "rule of thumb"...or within a military context, "Tailhook").

So what are you proposing -- a celibacy bonus for the unmarried? A change to the NDA making it a chargable offense to marry someone other than a WalMart cashier? Maybe another DEU badge for those whose spouse isn't military? 

You're going to love the 21st century....when you get here. Women can work outside the home, choosing any career field -- even the military; hell, they can even vote now!

From personal experience: another reality is the commonality of divorce. When we both deployed to Afg together (she went to Kabul; I went south), the daughter from her training marriage stayed with her ex- .  Service couples are here to stay; deal with it.




> Now that I'm off ranting mode... * I haven't really got anything to say*...


Seen.


----------



## TimBit (22 Oct 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> How long has that "tradition" been dead? _Traditionally_, men could abuse women (google the belief behind the "rule of thumb"...or within a military context, "Tailhook").
> 
> So what are you proposing -- a celibacy bonus for the unmarried? A change to the NDA making it a chargable offense to marry someone other than a WalMart cashier? Maybe another DEU badge for those whose spouse isn't military?
> 
> ...



I knew someone would clip me on the "traditional" bit... wrong word, I admit. Especially considering enlisted members couldn<t even marry...what was it, only 60 years ago, I think?

For the record, and I don't know where you got the whole "anti-woman-in-the-workplace" thing from, I very much support free women thank you! Duh! They can and should get any job they want, yes, including military, anytime, anywhere, anyhow. For the record as well, my wife is a university graduate who works as a teacher, so obviously I am not going for the Walmart thing here...?!? What I am saying however, is that there are many attemps to support service couples nowadays, through joint postings and so on. Service couples are always assured of retaining two salaries when getting posted, it is their right after all. I find however that in case of total war, if that ever happens again (crystal ball, anyone?), service couples with children suddenly won't work so well. As well, I find that non-service couples are still facing the same hurdles associated with postings and so on and that I am not sure that an equivalent number of support measures exist for those than there are accomodations for service couples.

Is my stance clearer?

Oh, and I am very much in the 21st century thank you. From my day 1 in the CF there was about 1/3 of my platoon who were girls and that is fine with me.


----------



## Journeyman (22 Oct 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> Is my stance clearer?


Your point was clear from your initial post.

You feel hard done by, and it's somehow the military's fault, that you chose to marry a non-service member. You selectively ignore service-couple hardships, like both being equally subject to absences due to deployments, courses, TD. The benefits that apply in both groups, such as the financial assistance available through Imposed Restriction postings for example, apparently don't count. 

And you choose to buttress your argument by saying that World War III would be...... awkward -- inconvenient even.



In sum, as you've already stated, ranting.


----------



## TimBit (22 Oct 2010)

Yes, I was ranting! Which is why I put that "mode" on. 

It is not the military's faut. I am responsible for my choices. Please don't put words into my mouth, I am not a 5-years old. Personnally, I am happy that my kids won't have to go their grandparents for 9 months because for that ONE time, we did get deployed at the same time. So no, it's not all bad...

Now, that being said, I am not or was not so much trying to buttress my argument as to raise a question by itself when I suggested that service couples would be awkward in a "total war". Wouldn't they be?


----------



## tree hugger (22 Oct 2010)

So, if Mrs. Timbit decided that the military thing would be a good gig, would you 

a) stay in and welcome the addition a Mrs Timbit into the CF
b) get out and let her have her turn, or
c) "forbid it".

Fortunately, I've met Mrs. Timbit and I don't think she has any immediate plans of joining the CF.   

CF members will continue to reflect the general population in the sense of meeting, falling in love and marrying people in their workplace.  If, heaven forbid, the CF no longer allows service couples, there will be more people living common-law and not claiming it or service couple babies growing up without the benefit of 2 parents posted at the same base... neither which would benefit the members involved.


----------



## TimBit (22 Oct 2010)

You are oh-so right, tree hugger   She's not interested  ;D

But of course she could do what she wants! Her life is 99.9% her own (hey, we ARE married... which means 50% of mine is mine). As I said though, if 18 months later Lenin was to rise from his mausoleum (you never know) and untold hords to pour through Fulda Gap, I would look at my children and go : oopsie.

I am not saying in any way that it should be forbidden. Simply hoping that non-service couples, who constitute the overwhelming majority still, are not forgotten.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (22 Oct 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> I knew someone would clip me on the "traditional" bit... wrong word, I admit. Especially *considering enlisted members couldn<t even marry...what was it, only 60 years ago*, I think?



Whether it's a "rant" or a "buttress" to your argument, most of your proposition (or the basis of your "question") appears to be based on items similar to the above highlighted, fallacies, hearsay and poor conclusions.

While individuals attempting to join the permanent establishments of the "Canadian Forces" (the legal term used to generically describe the RCN, RCAF and the Canadian Army together) were expected to be unmarried at time of enrolment (whether they were officers or other ranks) there was no restriction (other than obtaining CO's permission) on an individual marrying.  The prohibition against married men joining was also waived during times of national emergency or when attesting for overseas service such as (60 years ago) those who enrolled for Korea.

Even obtaining the CO's permission to marry was based primarily on the authorization for additional allowances or availability of married quarters and had little to do with attempting to keep soldiers focused solely on soldiering.  While it predates your "60 years" by a decade or so the following extract from "The Manual of Military Law" (a British Army publication but reprinted for use by the Canadian Army in 1941) discusses the subject:



> Chapter XII
> 
> RELATIONS OF OFFICERS AND SOLDIERS TO CIVIL LIFE
> 
> 3.  In the case of civil rights, duties and liabilities, there is a difference between the position of a soldier and that of an ordinary citizen.  The former cannot whilst in the service change his domicile, or acquire by residence a status of irremovability from, or settlement in, some parish other than his own.  Again, he cannot be punished for deserting or neglecting to maintain his wife and family, or leaving them chargeable to any area or place.  Although his legal liability to maintain them and any ******* children remains, it cannot be enforced against his person, pay, or equipment, but provision has been made for deducting limited sums his pay for the maintenance of such dependants.  *A soldier can without any official approval contract a legal and valid marriage; but claims to "marriage allowance" or "married quarters" are governed by regulations*.



By the 1970s all such requirements for "CO's permission" had been removed, save for those posted overseas contemplating marriage to a foreign national.  That was still in effect into the 1990s.  And such restrictions on married persons enrolling were not solely limited to the Forces; the RCMP had a similar regulation as well as other uniformed organizations, such as (up to the early 1970s) the Newfoundland Constabulary (they weren't yet "Royal" back then) and the St. John's Fire Department and likely many other municipal police and fire services.


edit - _ original mention of "overseas" was made due to (from personal experience) this being more common when greater numbers were stationed in Europe_


----------



## mariomike (22 Oct 2010)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> And such restrictions on married persons enrolling were not solely limited to the Forces; the RCMP had a similar regulation as well as other uniformed organizations, such as (up to the early 1970s) the Newfoundland Constabulary (they weren't yet "Royal" back then) and the St. John's Fire Department and likely many other municipal police and fire services.



I don't recall them hiring anyone much over the age of 25 back then ( the early 1970's ). They would enroll you right after Grade 12 graduation ( even then, you had to have Grade 12 ) and send you to the academy, so most of us were still a few years away from getting married. 
I know they warned us in advance that due to the nature of the job, there could be an impact on both your personal and family life. 

RCMP:
Age:
"Prior to the early 1980s, the RCMP was aiming to recruit new members aged from 19 to about 25. The practice was relatively customary of those days, and also grounded on three precise beliefs from the RCMP. First, policing could not be the second career of an individual. Second, young men were more moldable than older individuals to the police subculture. Third, criminal activity was linked to adulthood. By hiring young adults, the RCMP secured more chances that those individuals would have a crime free background."

Marital status:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCMP_recruiting#Marital_status


----------



## TimBit (23 Oct 2010)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Whether it's a "rant" or a "buttress" to your argument, most of your proposition (or the basis of your "question") appears to be based on items similar to the above highlighted, fallacies, hearsay and poor conclusions.



Hmm well then please point out other "fallacies", I'm curious.


----------



## PMedMoe (23 Oct 2010)

I am a service member.  So is my spouse.  I have one child, who is 19, so I wouldn't consider her "orphaned" if I were to be killed.  She lives with her Dad, anyway.  He is a civilian but has been to Afghanistan more than I have.

My spouse and I both deployed on the same tour.  We were from different units.


----------



## cesare753 (2 Dec 2013)

Hello,

My question is in regard to Canadian Armed Forces Service Couples; Rules, Definitions and any information pertaining to having a spouse also serving in the CAF with you.

I've had little luck finding this information so far, so perhaps some of you could provide me with the info or point me in the correct direction.

Thanks in advance


----------



## mariomike (2 Dec 2013)

cesare753 said:
			
		

> My question is in regard to Canadian Armed Forces Service Couples; Rules, Definitions and any information pertaining to having a spouse also serving in the CAF with you.
> I've had little luck finding this information so far, so perhaps some of you could provide me with the info or point me in the correct direction.



This may help.

"Service couples"
https://www.google.ca/#q=site:army.ca+%22service+couples%22

"Service couple"
https://www.google.ca/#q=site:army.ca+%22service+couple%22


----------



## Colta (13 Jul 2014)

Howdy... not sure if this is the right place for the question, so feel free to close or move this thread if it isn't.... but here it goes. 

Is there anyone on the boards who are in relationships where both members are in the Canadian Forces? I ask because my husband is putting in his application for Weapon's Tech Land soon and I will be reapplying late this winter (vr'd during BMQ for reasons I won't get into) as a Medical Tech. We're both very certain that career's in the military are for us and are willing to do whatever we have to in order for us to have fulfilling career's (providing we are both given an offer), we're just unsure of how it works as a married couple. 
I understand we'll be apart for quite some time due to BMQ, SQ and QL3's... but is there something in place to help married couples with being posted with one another? Outside of holidays and vacation time (providing we're approved for travelling the distance to see each other), what sort of chances are there for seeing each other? Are there any restrictions for couples with regards to one being in, say QL3's while the other is in BMQ?
In general.... just what were your experiences?


----------



## PuckChaser (13 Jul 2014)

The term you're looking for is called "service couples". The CAF will attempt to find posting for both of you at the same base, but the needs of the service sometimes (sometimes a lot) override you being posted together.

I believe there's a mega thread here with a lot of personal stories, etc.


----------



## George Wallace (13 Jul 2014)

"Dual Military Couples" has some serious connotations.


----------



## Colta (13 Jul 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> "Dual Military Couples" has some serious connotations.



I'm not quite sure I understand. Is it bad to use that term? I apologize if it is, that was the only term I knew for people in a relationship who are both in the military. If possible, I will edit this post or it can be removed. I didn't mean to offend anyone.


----------



## George Wallace (13 Jul 2014)

Colta said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure I understand. Is it bad to use that term? I apologize if it is, that was the only term I knew for people in a relationship who are both in the military. If possible, I will edit this post or it can be removed. I didn't mean to offend anyone.



Dual = Two
Couples = Two

'Dual Military Couples' is redundant or two (2) military Couples.   Swingers?




Anyway....Moving on.....Go the the HOME FRONT Forums and read some of the topics there on military couples.


----------



## Colta (13 Jul 2014)

Well... I feel mildly stupid now. I didn't even realize... it's been a long week.  :facepalm:


----------



## PuckChaser (13 Jul 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> 'Dual Military Couples' is redundant or two (2) military Couples.   Swingers?



It _is_ a new CAF....  >


----------



## Shamrock (14 Jul 2014)

The CANFORGEN on polyamorous service couples is awaiting draft.


----------



## Loachman (14 Jul 2014)

It'll be in translation for years, so don't be making too many commitments just yet.


----------



## HCA123 (20 Jul 2014)

Med Tech is a trade that could easily be co-located with a weapons tech. You are right, you'd likely be away from each other for a while during your qualification training, the chances are very high you'll be posted together afterwards. It is normally more difficult for the system to post you in different locations unless you are in element specific trades. Med Tech is purple and makes life easier. Plus, Field Ambulances are always looking for new Medics. Just say Petawawa or Edmonton at some point along the way and I'm sure you won't have any issues getting posted together.


----------



## Mortar guy (21 Jul 2014)

I am one half of a service couple and can offer some advice. In the 7 years my wife and I have been together, we've been posted to the same city for 1.5 of those years - and that wasn't a continuous 1.5 years. While the CM system and our respective Regiment/Corps does make the effort to post us to the same place, nothing is guaranteed. Of course, we are both senior officers so our options are extremely limited! Two NCMs in relatively "purple" trades should have an easier time of it.

MG


----------



## eliminator (21 Jul 2014)

My wife and I have been a service couple for over a decade and have always been posted together (3 going on 4 postings now). The only time apart has been for courses and deployments. These days, career managers have to do an administrative review if they post the two members to different locations. Specifically Career Managers, from what I've witnessed over the last few years, deal with service couple postings first each APS in order to have the best chances to co-locate the two members.


----------



## Northstar86 (18 Feb 2017)

Hello!
 Is anyone willing to share their experiences (or even second hand stories) as a Dual Service Family? Specifically;
1. Using a long term care provider (nanny ect.) for your children while you and your spouse were deployed.
2. Is it common that both members are deployed, and if so do they try and have as little overlap as possible or is it the full deployment?
 Any other info or experiences is appreciated too!
Thank you!
(I'm sorry if this has already been asked, I couldn't find anything in the search)


----------



## Loachman (18 Feb 2017)

Try looking for "married service couple".


----------



## mariomike (18 Feb 2017)

Northstar86 said:
			
		

> (I'm sorry if this has already been asked, I couldn't find anything in the search)



Service Couple
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+service+couples&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=JFeoWJf7JeGM8QesrZPIBQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22service+couples%22

Service Spouse
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+service+couples&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=JFeoWJf7JeGM8QesrZPIBQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22service+spouse%22


----------



## Northstar86 (19 Feb 2017)

Thank you!


----------



## mariomike (19 Feb 2017)

Northstar86 said:
			
		

> Thank you!



you are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## tech_spouse (4 Jul 2017)

Hi folks,

I'm currently a spouse of a service member living OUTCAN, and I'm trying to come up with a plan so both myself and my wife can have fulfilling careers when we return. Originally when I started dating my wife she was talking about releasing and returning to the civilian world, so I never had thought that my career would be affected much by hers. But then came her promotion and the option of a OUTCAN posting, so she decided to stick it out a while longer. And now we are at the point where she no longer wants to release because of her pension (can't blame her). 

Currently I'm not working (I took a sabbatical when we took the posting), and finishing my degree (I originally left school to take a full time software development job). In two years I do want to return to the working world, but we don't have any idea where she'll be posted next. It's entirely possible that she'll be posted somewhere with minimal professional options for me. As of right now I see two options (in descending order of desirability):

1) We put my career first, and try for postings in/near a select number of cities. This may require my wife turning down postings or promotions (I don't know if this is even possible).
2) My wife takes a IP posting and we live apart until she gets a position near me.

Another option is I join the CF, but that would require I take a substantial pay cut, even as an officer I would start making less than 1/2 of the salary I'm used to. Plus I don't know what the career outlook for a 35 year old newly commissioned 2LT would be, even with more than a decade of civilian software development/management experience.

Right now there's no rush to solve this problem, but I'd like to have a few ideas when I talk about this with my wife. Maybe some people here have gone through this same situation and can offer some advice? I would appreciate it. Thanks.


----------



## mariomike (4 Jul 2017)

tech_spouse said:
			
		

> Another option is I join the CF, but that would require I take a substantial pay cut, even as an officer I would start making less than 1/2 of the salary I'm used to.



If interested in becoming a Service Couple, you may find these discussions of interest,

Milnet.ca
Service Couple
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+service+couple&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=kZRbWbfYEcOR8Qee17OgCw&gws_rd=ssl

Forces.ca
CF member and service spouse
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2011-2012-directive-ch10.page

Forces.ca
My spouse/partner is already in the Forces. If I join, will we be posted together?

Married couples who are both serving in the Forces are typically posted together to the same location. However, the Forces is occasionally unable to accommodate spouses in cases where there are distinct differences in occupations or elements (e.g. posting an Air Weapons Specialist with his/her Infantry spouse) or because of operational requirements, such as overseas deployments.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-220



			
				tech_spouse said:
			
		

> Plus I don't know what the career outlook for a 35 year old newly commissioned 2LT would be, even with more than a decade of civilian software development/management experience.



Officer career at 35  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/105928.0/nowap.html

old officer question  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/41488.0
OP: "But is 35 too old?"

How old is too old to be an Officer? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/25862.0

What age is too old to commission  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/116765.0

Am I too old to join/do well/fit in? (Merged thread) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/207.0
12 pages.

etc...


----------



## daftandbarmy (4 Jul 2017)

tech_spouse said:
			
		

> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm currently a spouse of a service member living OUTCAN, and I'm trying to come up with a plan so both myself and my wife can have fulfilling careers when we return. Originally when I started dating my wife she was talking about releasing and returning to the civilian world, so I never had thought that my career would be affected much by hers. But then came her promotion and the option of a OUTCAN posting, so she decided to stick it out a while longer. And now we are at the point where she no longer wants to release because of her pension (can't blame her).
> 
> ...



Just in case you thought the grass might be greener on the CF side:  :nod:

"There's no such thing as work-life balance. There are work-life choices, and you make them, and they have consequences." Jack Welch
 Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/jackwelch451360.html


----------



## tech_spouse (4 Jul 2017)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Just in case you thought the grass might be greener on the CF side:  :nod:
> 
> "There's no such thing as work-life balance. There are work-life choices, and you make them, and they have consequences." Jack Welch
> Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/jackwelch451360.html



You are correct about that. Living apart and each of us having our own careers is probably the best situation for us, but I thought I should consider all my options.


----------



## Loachman (4 Jul 2017)

tech_spouse said:
			
		

> Another option is I join the CF



That gives you _*no*_ guarantee of being posted together.

Some Married Service Couples (do a Site search for that term) get lucky with postings, and some do not - even to the point of multiple apart-postings in a row.


----------



## tech_spouse (4 Jul 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> That gives you _*no*_ guarantee of being posted together.
> 
> Some Married Service Couples (do a Site search for that term) get lucky with postings, and some do not - even to the point of multiple apart-postings in a row.



I now realize that after some additional reading, thanks for the heads up. Guess crossing my fingers that my wife's next posting is somewhere where I can find work. Or I'll have to find a company that will allow me to work remotely. I've never worked remotely but it's an option with my skill set.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (4 Jul 2017)

Tech_spouse,

You and your wife have reached the point every military couple eventually faces:

Do I give up my career to have a better family life or sacrifice at home to continue my service?

Things will not get any easier as your wife progresses in her career, it will only get harder.  The more senior in rank someone is, the more commitment the service expects from them.  How far are you willing to go?  Lieutenant-Colonel and above, things move very quickly and you may find yourself moving almost yearly in some cases.

I'm doing the opposite of your wife, in my 13th year of service, I'm calling it quits.  A number of reasons but work-life balance definitely is a factor in my decision.  

I don't know what service/trade your wife is part of but some Army bases are complete crap locations for spouse employment.  Live in Petawawa?  Your options are to live halfway between Ottawa and there and you both commute, elsewhere it's less promising. 

PM me if you wish to discuss more.


----------



## mariomike (4 Jul 2017)

tech_spouse 

Did you read the Forces.ca Frequently Asked Questions?

11. My spouse/partner is already in the Forces. If I join, will we be posted together?

Married couples who are both serving in the Forces are typically posted together to the same location. However, the Forces is occasionally unable to accommodate spouses in cases where there are distinct differences in occupations or elements (e.g. posting an Air Weapons Specialist with his/her Infantry spouse) or because of operational requirements, such as overseas deployments.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-220

I also posted it in Reply #1 for your information.

Also from Reply #1,

Milnet.ca
Service Couple
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+service+couple&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=kZRbWbfYEcOR8Qee17OgCw&gws_rd=ssl

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## garb811 (4 Jul 2017)

tech_spouse said:
			
		

> ...
> 2) My wife takes a IP posting and we live apart until she gets a position near me.
> ...


I think you are referring to an "IR" (Imposed Restriction) posting?  If so, be well aware that no such beast exists for anyone coming back to Canada from OUTCAN.  Both of you, and your HG&E, will be moved to where her next posting in Canada is.  If you then decide to move to another location that will not be reflected in your family status as, according to the system, you and everything you move with you, is still considered to be where the CAF moved you to upon your return to Canada.  That means:

1)  It is totally on your own dime;
2)  You are not entitled to the few IR benefits that now remain;
3)  On her next posting, they will not move "your" stuff from wherever you have moved it to her next posting, even if you want to move;
4)  If something happens (ie. you become seriously ill) she will not be entitled to Compassionate Travel Allowance to get to your location and vice versa;
etc etc

I have watched several MP do this on returning to Canada from Embassies contrary to reams of advice and each time it didn't work out well for the member...


----------



## tech_spouse (5 Jul 2017)

mariomike said:
			
		

> tech_spouse
> 
> Did you read the Forces.ca Frequently Asked Questions?
> 
> ...



Yes I did. I was already aware that being posted together might not be possible, especially if your trades take place in different environments (ie, one being a hard sea trade and the other a army combat arms trade). But thanks for the links earlier, cheers.


----------



## tech_spouse (5 Jul 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> I think you are referring to an "IR" (Imposed Restriction) posting?  If so, be well aware that no such beast exists for anyone coming back to Canada from OUTCAN.  Both of you, and your HG&E, will be moved to where her next posting in Canada is.  If you then decide to move to another location that will not be reflected in your family status as, according to the system, you and everything you move with you, is still considered to be where the CAF moved you to upon your return to Canada.  That means:
> 
> 1)  It is totally on your own dime;
> 2)  You are not entitled to the few IR benefits that now remain;
> ...



Yeah I meant to write IR, not IP, I'm going to blame auto correct for that one. But that's useful info to know. In this case it'll mean that I'll be on my own if I choose to pursue my own career after returning. I'll have to do more research about what my wife would be entitled to in this situation. Thanks.


----------



## mariomike (5 Jul 2017)

tech_spouse said:
			
		

> But thanks for the links earlier, cheers.



You are welcome. Good luck.  



			
				tech_spouse said:
			
		

> Yeah I meant to write IR, not IP,



You may find this discussion of interest,

Imposed Restriction (IR) Merged Thread  
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b6TTPbwqdCIJ:https://army.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D83336.25+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
5 pages.


----------



## Hanley613 (16 Feb 2019)

I am currently finishing my ql3 and will be posted out in April. My wife is on her last year of police foundations and will be soon ready to apply for a career in policing. The ql3 fpr MP is 6 months long. My question is has anyone heard of a way for her to have her family with her while she is on training across the country? We have two young daughters 1 and 3 years old. Military Police and RCMP unforunetly take 6 months to train. Here are some things I have thought of:
Will I be able to get on a CFTPO in Borden while shes on course?
Can I take a Leave of absense?
Would my unit let me save two years of leave and use it while shes on course?

Can anyone help think of any ideas or share any experiences they may have heard of?


----------



## garb811 (16 Feb 2019)

Inf613 said:
			
		

> I am currently finishing my ql3 and will be posted out in April. My wife is on her last year of police foundations and will be soon ready to apply for a career in policing. The ql3 fpr MP is 6 months long. My question is has anyone heard of a way for her to have her family with her while she is on training across the country? We have two young daughters 1 and 3 years old. Military Police and RCMP unforunetly take 6 months to train. Here are some things I have thought of:
> Will I be able to get on a CFTPO in Borden while shes on course?
> Can I take a Leave of absense?
> Would my unit let me save two years of leave and use it while shes on course?
> ...


Anything is possible but...

You are unlikely to get an Attach Posting to Borden for the sole reason of being there when she is on her QL3. Even if this was the case, where would you live? She will be in quarters and you won't be entitled to move your HG&E for an Attach Posting.
You are unlikely to get LWOP for this purpose.
Your unit will not let you accumulate a year's worth of leave as that is not how the policy works.

Best bet, if you absolutely must be co-located while she is on her QL3, is for you to ask to be posted to Borden on completion of your QL3. Otherwise, being separated from your spouse and family while on course is an unfortunate aspect of military life. You and she need to sit down and have a hard talk about options outside of military accommodation on how you can make this work. Once you are both through QL3 it will become a bit easier but there are always going to be times when one of you ends up being a single parent for extended periods and you need to have a plan in place.


----------



## Chanada (16 Feb 2019)

Inf613...As I read your post you are presently on QL3 Inf in Meaford and your wife is taking Police Foundations but has not yet applied either to a Police Force or to join the CAF as an MP.  If her plan is to apply to a civ Police service then chances of success and timing will depend on where you go.  If her intent is to join the CAF as an MP that is a bit different and to be honest your chances may be better as two halves of a service couple with her staring here recruit/MP training once you are posted to whichever base/bn this year.  Either way on graduating DP1 (assuming you are not PPCLI) then you are headed for Petawawa or Gagetown with a battalion of your regiment - and whichever it ends up being then you are going to be there for a while. With very few exceptions that is where cpl/pte infantryman spend the first 4-7 years of their career.  If your wife joins as an MP then there is a chance that she could be posted and collocated when she completes her DP1.  The good news for you is that generally when service couples are posted together the Career Manager of the senior member picks up the cost move.  In terms of your wife's options whether civil or military police I think the career timelines you are working on for her may be a bit optimistic.  Police foundations graduates are a bit of a buyers market these days so it really depends on which forces are hiring and in both those locations (Petawawa and NB) they are smaller forces/detachments).  Using either scenario she may not receive an offer until (best case) several months after she graduates from her present programme and she might consider starting the CAF application process now to see what happens.  Good luck to you.


----------



## JesseWZ (16 Feb 2019)

Chanada said:
			
		

> Inf613...As I read your post you are presently on QL3 Inf in Meaford...



I'm not sure what makes you believe he is infantry? His profile lists his current unit as CFLTC and his MOSID as 00117... His post history states he CT'd from reserve infantry to Reg F MSE Op. His posting options are nearly limitless. 



			
				garb811 said:
			
		

> Best bet, if you absolutely must be co-located while she is on her QL3, is for you to ask to be posted to Borden on completion of your QL3. Otherwise, being separated from your spouse and family while on course is an unfortunate aspect of military life.... Once you are both through QL3 it will become a bit easier but there are always going to be times when one of you ends up being a single parent for extended periods and you need to have a plan in place.



I'd like to emphasize the point in yellow. Before I was posted to Esquimalt, I didn't even know it existed and had no idea where it was. It certainly wasn't one of my options out the gate, but we made the best of it. Sometimes making the best of it is all you can do. Getting through to your occupationally functional point is the hardest part on couples in my opinion, which is multiplied if both are going through training at near the same time. There can be lots of "moves" from one school to the next, the member is separated from their family while Att Posted and trying to focus on their course while their family might be 10000000 billion miles away.


----------



## blacktriangle (16 Feb 2019)

If you want your marriage to work, I'd avoid the military.


----------



## JesseWZ (16 Feb 2019)

standingdown said:
			
		

> If you want your marriage to work, I'd avoid the military.



What a load of malarkey.

I've been in for 12 years, married for nearly 8. I know a lot of service couples who have been married for nearly as long as I have, and have held it down through deployments, taskings, children and all manner of stressors. I know a ton of folks where one spouse is in the military and they've been together as long as me or longer in some cases. 

In fact, I think more of my civilian friends then my military friends have divorced.

Yes, deployments and courses and TD and such cause tension, but a marriage works or fails based on the individuals in the marriage - not because of the military. The military may exacerbate existing stressors, but it doesn't cause the end of marriages.

You're giving rather poor advice to someone whose already married and in the military. He's asking for help on making his family situation better. Did you even read the preceding posts? How does your one dismissive line help the OP or further the thread in any way?


----------



## Hanley613 (17 Feb 2019)

Jesse, Do you know what the requirements for LWOP are? If I wanted to use a month of leave plus lets say 2 months of LWOP to try and stay in the area for half the course?


----------



## Hanley613 (17 Feb 2019)

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/about-the-cfia/cfia-jobs/hr-information/collective-agreements/public-service-alliance-of-canada-psac-/eng/1415985912778/1415985913872?chap=49&


----------



## dangerboy (17 Feb 2019)

This link has the is regulations on Leave Without Pay as per the CAF Leave Policy Manual: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap8


----------



## Hanley613 (17 Feb 2019)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap8


----------



## Hanley613 (17 Feb 2019)

So does that mean Im good to take a couple months off?


----------



## PuckChaser (17 Feb 2019)

LWOP must be in the interest of the CAF. If your wife gets an embassy posting later in her career (where there's no CAF job for you), thats usually what I've seen it used for. They're not going to let you take LWOP so you can spend a couple hours a night with your wife. She's also going to be ordered into shacks. Are you going to get a hotel or rent an apartment?

You're both choosing a military career. There will be separations. The CAF will work to get you posted to the same bases. If you cannot handle a 6 month course, how are you going to handle BMQ? 6/9 month deployment? Multiple month exercises apart? The CAF is better at the family stuff now, but you need to have realistic expectations and maybe a serious talk about whether you can handle being a Married Service Couple.


----------



## mariomike (17 Feb 2019)

Inf613 said:
			
		

> My wife is on her last year of police foundations and will be soon ready to apply for a career in policing.



If your wife is considering applying to the CAF, Recruiting would be her most trusted source of official up to date information.



			
				Inf613 said:
			
		

> Can anyone help think of any ideas or share any experiences they may have heard of?



Some discussions that may be of interest to potential Service Couples,

CAF Service Couple Information  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/113148.0

Not deploying service couples together  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/97185.0

Service Couples - Posting  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/30625.0

Service Couples
https://army.ca/forums/threads/47261.0

Service Couple and Deployment???  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/67671.0
2 pages.

Married couples and children  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/33024.0
2 pages

PLEASE HELP WITH POSTING!  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/53061.0
OP: "Does anyone have any tricks or a good way to get posted (service couple)?"

etc...


----------



## kratz (17 Feb 2019)

mariomike said:
			
		

> If your wife is considering applying to the CAF, Recruiting would be her most trusted source of official up to date information.
> This is a training concern for her unit or school, not a CFRC. Reciting only gets people in the door to BMQ.
> 
> Some discussions that may be of interest to potential Service Couples  **snip**



The advice posted in 2007 and this week are valid. Both members will need to communicate, make some choices and decide.

MM's links are useful and restate similar advice.


----------



## mariomike (17 Feb 2019)

kratz said:
			
		

> MM's links are useful and restate similar advice.



From Forces.ca

Service Couples
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch10.page

SEPARATION OF MARRIED SERVICE COUPLES: PROBLEM OR PART OF MILITARY LIFE
https://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/259/290/402/305/gagne.pdf

Relocation benefits applicable to meet the requirements of Service Couples (SCs).
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2011-2012-directive-ch10.page

A Family Guide to the MILITARY EXPERIENCE
https://www.cafconnection.ca/getmedia/5d55e9e8-5e4c-45fe-a9cc-5b80dde75357/MFS-A-Family-Guide-to-the-Military-Experience-ENG.aspx
"Family Care Assistance is designed to help military members who are single parents or dual-service couples with children."



			
				standingdown said:
			
		

> If you want your marriage to work, I'd avoid the military.



My sister was a dual-service couple, both in the Regular Force. 

Maybe she was an exception. But, she was a wife and mother and still managed to enjoy a long and satisfying career.


----------



## Hanley613 (17 Feb 2019)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> LWOP must be in the interest of the CAF. If your wife gets an embassy posting later in her career (where there's no CAF job for you), thats usually what I've seen it used for. They're not going to let you take LWOP so you can spend a couple hours a night with your wife. She's also going to be ordered into shacks. Are you going to get a hotel or rent an apartment?
> 
> You're both choosing a military career. There will be separations. The CAF will work to get you posted to the same bases. If you cannot handle a 6 month course, how are you going to handle BMQ? 6/9 month deployment? Multiple month exercises apart? The CAF is better at the family stuff now, but you need to have realistic expectations and maybe a serious talk about whether you can handle being a Married Service Couple.


We have family in the area where I can stay. I just think its a bit ridiculous to seperate a mother from her young children for 6 months to take a career course. She is willing to do deployments and exercises in the future but not when our daughter is 1 year old. So there is no way for this to happen? Its either leave your kids for 6 month or dont join?


----------



## brihard (17 Feb 2019)

Inf613 said:
			
		

> We have family in the area where I can stay. I just think its a bit ridiculous to seperate a mother from her young children for 6 months to take a career course. She is willing to do deployments and exercises in the future but not when our daughter is 1 year old. So there is no way for this to happen? Its either leave your kids for 6 month or dont join?



Essentially, yes. The security and certainty that comes with a full time career in the military does entail having to bite the bullet on some decisions like that from time to time.

That said if she’s still in school for PF, she’s a long ways let from getting hired by the MPs or any other police service. Your circumstances may change somewhat between now and when she has to face that decision.


----------



## garb811 (17 Feb 2019)

Inf613 said:
			
		

> We have family in the area where I can stay. I just think its a bit ridiculous to seperate a mother from her young children for 6 months to take a career course. She is willing to do deployments and exercises in the future but not when our daughter is 1 year old. So there is no way for this to happen? Its either leave your kids for 6 month or dont join?


Like Brihard said, if you have been reading any of the MP recruiting threads, you should realize by now that she isn't miraculously going to graduate and then get sent to CFMPA then next day.  Chances are she is looking at a year, year and half post graduation from her program before she even gets to the point of doing the Background Integrity Interview (if "new MPAC" hasn't been implemented by that point), which I'm guessing isn't going to be until at least end-April. So, ballpark figure is she won't even be enrolled until summer 2021 at the earliest, at which point your child will be much older than a year...

You keep going on about "six months" for her QL3. The QL3 hasn't been six months in a couple of years now, it is now 18 weeks long and runs twice a year. One serial starts in January and ends in May, the other starts in August and ends in December. You haven't been talking about BMQ, so does that mean she's a reservist and going to bypass? If so, does she also have BMQ-L? Because that is a requirement for MP as well. If she has to take either or both of these courses, that is going to make time away even longer.

What happens when she is working shift and can't be home for their birthday party, parent teacher interview, when they graduate kindergarten, have a doctor or dental appointment, wake up sick and can't go to school, have to stay late to finish up processing an impaired driver, when it is a school holiday, who is going to babysit when you are away and she has to work a night shift...? For what it is worth, over the course of my career I have seen a ton of great female MP either quit or OT after they had kids and realized that working a 12 hour shift on a 28 day cycle was not conducive to how they wanted to be as a parent. _Edit to add: But I have also seen a ton of people make it work because they had realistic expectations and a plan in place._

I really think you guys haven't had a realistic discussion on what the demands of a career in the CAF or any police service makes upon a family and what you are going to have to sacrifice to make either work. The only one responsible for coming up with a  plan to make your family life work with the career are you and your wife. Although accommodations can be made at times, they have to be reasonable and what you are asking for right now isn't reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Hanley613 (17 Feb 2019)

Thank you very much for all the quick responses everyone. Lots of great info aswell. We figured the course is 6 months bexause they are still advertising on the forces jobs site that it is a 6 month course.


----------



## MaggieDozer (21 Mar 2019)

Evening! 
I'm recently married, my spouse is going reg force MP in a few days, and I have my CT in as well. 

Just a question maybe someone out there can tell me ... If I went Infantry officer, and I wanted to be posted to either Edmonton or Gagetown, and absolutely not Petawawa what are the chances of that happening? 

My spouse is a non commission, reg force MP. He'll be posted before my CT goes through. If he's not at an army base, will they move him to where I'm posted or will I be attached to his base? How does it work if one of us is an officer and he's posted to a base without army? 

See, InfO is my first choice. I don't want to put him in a position where his career is upset or he's moved to Pet (we BOTH want to leave Ontario). How does the whole posting situation work when one of us is commissioned? 

My other choices are Navy and Airforce LogO and I'll happily go either trade, but I don't particularly want to leave the infantry just yet if I can help it. 

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## garb811 (22 Mar 2019)

You both need to end up in a location where you can do your entry level jobs and Infantry is more restrictive on possible locations than MP, so your posting is going to drive things. 

The last couple of years my observation is the MP CM is more than willing to post Jnr MP to co-locate them with their families if, for some reason, their spouse is also a service member who needs to go to a different base. There may be a delay in the posting happening for him depending on a variety of factors but the chances are pretty good for it to be done.

Presuming he is not already qualified Reg Force MP QL3, the earliest he is going to receive his first posting is Dec 19, as the next QL3 doesn't start until July. In that case, you may already be in via your CT and if you are already fully qualified, you may be at your first posting. If that happens, the MP CM will probably simply co-locate him when he comes off the BTL on graduation. 

If he is getting his first posting ahead of you, he should be identifying what is going on with you and what stage of the process you are at when he puts in his posting choices for 1 or 3 MP Regt. There is a good possibility the CM will pre-locate him on spec, or perhaps even have a chat with your soon to be new CM as to where you are going to be offered a position to keep things simple. 

If he puts Edmonton as his first choice I would say he has a very good chance of getting it due to the number of MP positions there.  With the CFSPDB, CFNIS and CFNCIU also in Edmonton, the MP CM is very fond of doing no cost moves of Cpls within Edmonton, it's pretty normal for a fairly large chunk of a graduating QL3 to end up there to top the Regt back up. Gagetown only has the guardhouse, which means fewer Cpls are usually needed off the QL3.

PS - You forgot about Shilo...  ;D


----------



## MaggieDozer (9 Aug 2019)

Morning everyone, 
My CT is on the move forward into the infantry, I'll be going on my BMOQ-A soon and I was really excited, until I heard that you can't do OJE anywhere but Gagetown between courses. My husband is military police, finishing his QL3 in December. As I am untrained does the "keeping service spouses together" general rule of thumb still apply or will Gagetown be off the table for him since my first 'posting' is when I'm untrained? 

I'm really feeling like a fish out of water with all the information I've been getting from different sources and I'm so confused. 

Any help would be great!


----------



## garb811 (9 Aug 2019)

MaggieDozer said:
			
		

> Morning everyone,
> My CT is on the move forward into the infantry, I'll be going on my BMOQ-A soon and I was really excited, until I heard that you can't do OJE anywhere but Gagetown between courses. My husband is military police, finishing his QL3 in December. As I am untrained does the "keeping service spouses together" general rule of thumb still apply or will Gagetown be off the table for him since my first 'posting' is when I'm untrained?
> 
> I'm really feeling like a fish out of water with all the information I've been getting from different sources and I'm so confused.
> ...


You say, "CT," so I'm presuming that right now you are a reservist, in which case you don't technically become a service couple until you complete your CT to the Regular Force. If you still haven't completed your CT the time his posting message is cut he could end up anywhere.

What he should do when he submits his posting choices is also submit a memo detailing what is going on with you. The MP CM will then attempt to coordinate with your CM (or soon to be CM) about where you are likely to end up and he will likely be pre-positioned for when you complete battle school.

Edit to add: And sorry, yes, unless you are going to be posted to 2 RCR, Gagetown isn't going to be on the table to keep you together simply because you are there on OJE.


----------

