# Am I a good DOE(R) candidate?



## Potential Recruit (19 Aug 2004)

I've gotten some advice on this question from some buddies who are currently in the CF, both Reg Force and Reserve, commissioned and NCO, but I wanted to get some independent views from guys that I don't know but whose opinions I respect . . . I've been reading posts on this board as a guest for a few weeks, and I greatly respect the wealth of experience and opinion you guys represent.  I know I'm still a guest on here, having never worn the uniform, but I'd be interested in any feedback anyone feels willing to provide.

First off, one of my biggest regrets in life is never having worn the CF uniform.  I'm reasonably successful in my personal and professional life, but I've always had a fascination with the military, and have a tremendous resepect for everyone who wears the uniform (I get that from my grandfather, who was a Captain in the Black Watch in WWII), but I know I'll never be able to truly appreciate what you guys go through unless I join myself.

So here's the score:

-32 years old
-Good health (couple of old sports injuries, but never any major illnesses)
-20/20 vision
-Work out regularly, both in the gym and team sports
-Professional --senior policy analyst with national lobbying firm.  Good coin, so $'s not my reason to join.
-BA and MA in communications
-Fluetnly bilingual E/F
-Long distance runner (half-marathons anyway)
-Used to smoke pot in university, don't anymore
-Novice skydiver (a few tandem jumps a year, which will make you actual jumpers snicker I know, but still something I love to do)
-Single, no kids
-Management experience (10-12 people, in an office environment anyhow)
-Always put my staff's interests before my own, e.g. absobing a lot of the shit that goes on at higher levels so they don't get distracted from their jobs, never passing the buck down the line etc.

So . . . . if you were a recruiter and I wandered in one day and said I'd like to join the Direct Officer Entry program for Reserves, would I be good to go?

More importantly (since I'm not just interested in joining, but in actually being a good leader and good officer), what kind of an officer do you think I'd make (recognizing that you only have the bare bones to base your answer on, so that may be a stupid question)?


Much appreciated.


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## casing (19 Aug 2004)

Can't figure out why you feel the need to ask, unless you are having some confidence issues, but that doesn't seem too likely.   Your post reads almost like a resume!   

I'd say you make a good candidate.   But if you really want to know, get down to the CFRC and submit your application.   You'll learn during your interview if you are a good candidate or not (after a great deal about has already been assessed) because your interviewing officer will straight up tell you.   If you aren't a good candidate, you won't get in.   If you are, then you'd be competetive and there is an excellent chance that you'd get an offer.   

What kind of officer would you make?   If you stick to the values you listed here and work at it, you'd probably be a good officer.

You look competetive to me as you have quite a few qualifications that I don't have, plus you are a couple of years younger, and I did get an in.   Just go for it.   You can always back out later if you get cold feet.


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## Born2Fly (19 Aug 2004)

You would be a great candidate for the Regular Force, let alone the reserves.


Do you have any idea what you would like to do in the CF?

I'd say with your MA in Communications you'd be a good candidate for Public Affairs.


But like my colleague Casing said above me, go wander in to a CFRC and talk to them about it. I wandered into a CFRC one day back in 1996, and 4 months later I was sworn in. You really have nothing to lose just by talking to the recruiters about it.

Good luck.


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## Potential Recruit (19 Aug 2004)

Public Affairs?!  I already have an office job, lol.

I'd be thrilled to be an infantry officer.   I have some interest in airborne, but it's been strongly recommended to me that I keep that to myself throughout BMQ, unless I'm a sucker for punishment.  Can reservists get into jump courses?  

Anyhow, thanks for the advice.

Casing - PM inbound.


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## Armymedic (19 Aug 2004)

Queens Own Rifles out of Toronto (somebody else can give an armories location for you) have jump positions and would be your best bet to go Infantry and to get your jump course. From what you described you would be a good candidate for the job...

BTW whats your Half time?


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## qjdb (19 Aug 2004)

I am going to just do an echo of what those last two posters put on there, that you should go for more than reserves.   I think that any recruiter would jump on top of you and try to convince you that you are regular forces material.

The communications qualifications would not limit you to just Public Affairs.   From what I remember of the few communications courses that I took, it is not expressly about dealing with Public Affairs - type stuff, correct?   Seems to me that qualification would be a VERY good quality for any officer to have.   And having an MA in it shows them that you (theoretically) know your stuff.   Having the job you do, shows that you know the stuff practically, as well.

and of course, being responsible for 10-12 people also seems like a perfect qualification for leading a platoon, as well.

sounds like you have a pretty good resume,

If I didn't ahve a family to support and not disrupt, I think that I would probably go for it as well, but my wife is not too keen on moving now, so if you are going to do it, do it while you are single.  To me, 32 seems like a perfect age, because you know what you know, and, as opposed to a 18 year old, you also know what you DON'T know!   ;D

I say, go for the Reg Force.

Good luck

Quentin


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## Potential Recruit (19 Aug 2004)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> BTW whats your Half time?



Usually around 1:30 - 1:35 on an organized run, 1:35 - 1:40 on my own.   I'd like to improve it, but it's more for recreation and cardio than competition.


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## DrSize (19 Aug 2004)

I'd love to know what makes a strong DEO candidate.  Apparently it is really competetive, I wish there was some sort of list of criteria that was made public that the board uses when offereing contracts.  But the truth is no one actually knows unless they are on the board that makes the decisions........Some might say it is your university marks, others might say it is your work experience, others might say it is physical activities and sports, some could argue age and physical level, some could say the fact you are single with no kids is a definite plus...who really knows???  Personally depending on position I would have to say your university education is near the top if not the main one used for determining a candidate.  With a masters in communications and being bilingual you should be a pretty strong candidate possibly after a few years as a infantry officer you could look into getting on as an intelligence officer....


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## Garbageman (19 Aug 2004)

DrSize said:
			
		

> I'd love to know what makes a strong DEO candidate........ some could say the fact you are single with no kids is a definite plus...who really knows???



I know you're just looking for examples , but I just wanted to clarify that this is pretty irrelevant to the selection process.  The CF is a family-friendly environment for the large part, and I highly doubt that anyone in the recruiting process takes this factor into serious consideration.


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## Michael OLeary (19 Aug 2004)

DrSize said:
			
		

> I'd love to know what makes a strong DEO candidate.   Apparently it is really competetive, I wish there was some sort of list of criteria that was made public that the board uses when offereing contracts.   But the truth is no one actually knows unless they are on the board that makes the decisions........




It is all relative. Firstly there are the minimum requirements at the Recruiting Centre, which, if not met, mean you don't get looked at as a potentrial DEO candidate. Secondly, the particular trade you want has to have vacancies for that year that their projections indicate are best filled by DEOs. Third, in comparison to other candidates for that trade, you have to merit list high enough to be above the "cut-off" for that year, when that board examines the files in accordance with what they are looking for at that time.

You can be one of two ideal candidates, but if they're only looking to fill one vacancy, and you're number two because they like his degree over your's, then you don't get selected.

There's no magic formula.

Good luck.


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## DrSize (19 Aug 2004)

That probably is the case that it is totally irrelevant but if I was the one picking I would go with a single guy with no strings or baggage.   One of the first things the recruiting officer asked me was if i was single or had kids, I told her I didn't even have a girlfriend and no kids and she got excited and said wonderful............I think part of this is it is alot harder to move all over and goto training courses if you have a family or a committment and they realize how hard it is on those people.   If say they had to make a decision between two similiar candidates it might come down to picking the 25 year old single guy with no kids instead of the married 35 year old with two kids........



			
				Garbageman said:
			
		

> I know you're just looking for examples , but I just wanted to clarify that this is pretty irrelevant to the selection process.   The CF is a family-friendly environment for the large part, and I highly doubt that anyone in the recruiting process takes this factor into serious consideration.


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## Garbageman (19 Aug 2004)

DrSize said:
			
		

> If say they had to make a decision between to similiar candidates it might come down to picking the 25 year old single guy with no kids instead of the married 35 year old with two kids........



I think that's borderline on discrimination based on marital status.  Anyone a SHARP guru?  Although SHARP likely doesn't apply to civies in the recruiting process, and the Ombudsman doesn't seem to like to touch recruiting issues.


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## DrSize (19 Aug 2004)

I don't think it would be discrimination at all....say two ideal candidates right down to the wire....completely even and tied of who they want to give the offer too.....Well one is younger and has the possibility to give more years of service, and doesn't have a family to support and be there for....I think that could be a tie breaker BUT I DOUBT it ever is so close between two candidates that it comes down to that, I was just say it could have a very small bearing on the decision.  Personally speaking a younger single candidate is far more attractive than an older married with kids candidate......I could also just be saying that because I am 23 and single with no kids so I like to think I am a more attractive candidate than a 35 year old with children and a wife...........


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## Garbageman (19 Aug 2004)

Chances are, that 35 year-old with kids and a wife has more job experience than you.  

I understand what you're saying, but the CF has some clear discrimination policies around age/marital status/sex/race, etc, etc, and while they aren't as easily applicable to civilians in the recruiting process, they are still there.  

As for why the recruiter asked you if you were single, well that was likely more of a sales tactic than a selection tactic.  They wanted to get an ideal of what motivated you and what your needs were instead of talking to you about things that you might not care as much about (benefits for dependents, family housing, etc)


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## Born2Fly (19 Aug 2004)

This is all pretty much academic as far as I'm concerned, and really up to the selection boards. We can debate on whether you're a good candidate until Christmas...


But the only way you will find out for sure is if you apply.


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## DrSize (19 Aug 2004)

I agree wholeheartidly.......you can list of everything like you did but the only real way to know is to apply and see whether or not they accept you.....hey it doesn't hurt to apply........I know I will be pretty devasted if I do not get an offer since I am applying for Reg Force Logistics Officer



			
				Born2Fly said:
			
		

> This is all pretty much academic as far as I'm concerned, and really up to the selection boards. We can debate on whether you're a good candidate until Christmas...
> 
> 
> But the only way you will find out for sure is if you apply.


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## Mr. Ted (19 Aug 2004)

What city are you in?  We could give you an idea of what reserve regt is closest to you.

Ask yourself the following question if you are thinking of the reserves(and I think you are because I don't think you're considering giving up that primary income):

You've worked a hard week at the office and the w/e is coming up.  Do you want more stress?  Do you want to get less sleep?  Do you want to be in charge of an infantry platoon on a 48 hr exercise?  Do you want to do annoying paperwork by maglite when you should be asleep?  Do you want to get dirty all w/e and run around with weight on your back, a rifle in your hands, a radio in your ear and cam paint on your face?

Do you wanna relax on the bus home from the local trg area, grinning becuase you've just spent the w/e doing something almost no one you know will get a chance to do? 

That CF uniform means alot, and can tug at your heart strings a  long time after you've left, murmuring that maybe you should get back in...

Does any of this appeal to you?

I ask because all CF members are expected to soldier on regardless of being tired, old, stressed from work, using up their vacation to be on exercise, blah blah, but add to that the extra stress of being responsible in a very real way for 35 men and ask yourself if you still want to do that in your spare time.  Be honest.  Think on that for awhile.  The first two years especially as you move through Basic officer trg, common army phase(mini infantry), leadership trg, then reserve plat commander's course will be tough.  

Ted


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## humint (20 Aug 2004)

This is what I have to say -- UNOFFICIALLY -- as a unit recruiter!

Age is not an immediate concern, at least it's not for my unit. If you are fit, ready for action, and can make a positive impact on the unit, than I will get you in.

However, some units may be reluctant to take on someone in their late 40s, as their employability is some what short-lived as retirement is age 55. It is more a question of investment. Some units may not be able to justify spending thousands of $ on a 50 year-old applicant when they will only be able to put 5 years into the unit. Units are cash-strapped, and this, unfortunately, is an unfair reality of today's army. Please note: THIS IS NOT an official policy!

However, physical fitness is key, especially for the infantry. You need to be fit, and be able to punish your body and recover in double-quick time. It is extremely demanding, both physically and psychologically.

I look for four things (among others) in Officer applicants: 

1. A desire, on part of the applicant, to improve both personally and professionally,
2. An individual who can make a long-term commitment to the unit, and advance the standing (i.e. the footprint) of the unit in the community,
3. An undertanding of the military and, in particular, how the infantry fits into the big picture,
4. An ability, on part of the applicant, to understand the needs of the troops, the unit, and the CO. You will need to balance conflicting demands, and be able to make tough decisions and sacrifices! 

This is not an end-all and be-all list, but more of a starting point. There are a number of other factors that come into play.

As for judging whether you would make a good officer -- my suggestion is for you to go to a unit, attend an info session, speak to some of the officers, and get an understanding of what the unit, and the CF, is all about.


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## Eowyn (20 Aug 2004)

argylls_recruiting said:
			
		

> However, some units may be reluctant to take on someone in their late 40s, as their employability is some what short-lived as retirement is age 55.



Umm... CRA is now 60.

CANFORGEN 095/04 ADMHRMIL 047 091537Z JUL 04
IMPLEMENTATION OF COMPULSORY RETIREMENT AGE 60 (CRA60)

I didn't copy the entire thing because it is quite lengthy.


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## humint (20 Aug 2004)

Awesome, now I can go RegF and get a full pension before they shove me out the door cause I'm too old. This is actually good news for us 30 somethings!


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## mdh (20 Aug 2004)

Hi Potential Recruit,

I actually have a very similar private sector resume to yours, I'm a PR/Public Affairs consultant at a national agency who decided that civvie life wasn't enough.  I decided to sign up as a reserve Infantry Officer (and I'm older than you are) and despite a long and sometimes frustrating recruitment process, the decision was the right one. 

If you are motivated enough, and understand what you're getting into, it can be the best decision you can ever make. I only regret that I didn't do it sooner.

Cheers
mdh


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## Mr. Ted (22 Aug 2004)

Hey MDH.  There are more than a few of us considering joining (or re-uping) at a later age(30, 35, 40).

Any stories, overall info, anecdotes, advice you could give us would be great on your travels and travails from Officer Cadet to trained 2nd L.T.

I'd love to hear it all.  Feel free to shoot me an email too.

Ted


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## Mr. Ted (23 Aug 2004)

bump


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## mdh (23 Aug 2004)

Hi Mr. Ted,

I was sworn as a 2Lt. a couple of months ago so I'm very green (at least from the military's perspective).   I was a Pvt. in the Armour Reserve a long time ago (I was attacked by a Tyrannosaurus Rex at Meaford once but that's another story), and decided that it was time to come back at this stage of my life since it was now or never.   

Throughout the intervening years even though you want to return you get side-tracked by career or family - which I imagine is a fairly typical pressure on most would-be reservists.

I think if you want to rejoin, talk to the unit you are interested in - I know it can feel self-conscious when you think you're not in the ideal age bracket, but if you have former military experience it usually indicates that you're not a Walter Mitty and that you know what you're getting into.   You will also be boarded by other officers who will thoroughly review your application and your desire to re-join.   They will let you know if you're a good candidate - or not.

I note that most units want committed members who are going to provide stable leadership and I would suggest that older members are more likely to stick around for the long haul - and that's worth the investment in terms of training especially if you are able to put in 15-20 years service.     I think posters like Argyll Recruiting can offer some perspective on this.

The only other thing I can add is don't get frustrated by the selection process - it can be irritating, but the system has recently been speeded up so that units can enroll recruits more quickly. Like the Nike slogan says, Just Do It. 

Which leads me to one one final point: fitness.  I would put a premium on getting into the best shape you can. There is a fitness guide produced for the combat arms which offers some good exercise regimens.  Go further than that even, and try running in boots and backpack, it's a great way to improve endurance. 

Feel free to PM if you need any more detailed information,
Cheers
mdh


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## Tracker (23 Aug 2004)

CRA at 60 does not guarantee that you can serve until 60.  You must still be Med fit and able to pass the express test.


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## humint (29 Aug 2004)

Yes, well, the med and fit test requirements is a given at any age in the CF! 

That aside, I'm still looking forwards to my retirement and pension!


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## mdh (30 Aug 2004)

Hey Mr.Ted,

Have you decided to sign up?


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