# SLT for summer of '08



## Ed Art (13 Apr 2008)

Ive heard that SLT has been delayed until after you have your commission, is this true? I'm BOTP from May12-June27 so there is time for SLT.  Then I have friends who are on BOTP from June15-Aug 1.  Is there SLT for only select trades? (I looked at both lists and it seems MOC's have been grouped together).  
Basically what Im asking will there be any SLT this summer....


----------



## dimsum (13 Apr 2008)

What MOC are you?  For English people learning French, only Pilots and Legal Officers do it.


----------



## benny88 (13 Apr 2008)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> What MOC are you?  For English people learning French, only Pilots and Legal Officers do it.



Dimsum, that's not current. I expect and hope to do it eventually, but I am a pilot and am on the 12 May- 27 June BOTP with no SLT afterwards.

Ed Art, I believe most of the people on the 15 June BOTP are RMC cadets. IIRC, from hearing the course dates of a few friends, they will do an (approximately) 6 week course. Because they get second language training all year long, they need a shorter course, where as us Civvy-U guys and gals would need several months minimum. I guess that's why ours is being delayed until after graduation/commision.


----------



## Ed Art (14 Apr 2008)

Hey Bennet, I heard most RMC cadets start the 19th, theres and entire civi u platoon starting the 15th of June, who told you there was no SLT afterwards? My ULO wasnt sure. But after receiving the commission sounds better; im stuck doing OJT for the 2-3 weeks before BOTP what are you doing?


----------



## benny88 (14 Apr 2008)

Ed Art said:
			
		

> I heard most RMC cadets start the 19th, theres and entire civi u platoon starting the 15th of June,



 Must have mixed up the platoons, sorry.



			
				Ed Art said:
			
		

> who told you there was no SLT afterwards? My ULO wasnt sure.



  I just know I have my BOTP orders and no SLT orders but have talked to several RMC people on a 5-6 week SLT. And I know that I would need a lot more than the 2 months I have from the end of BOTP till school to become proficient en francais.



			
				Ed Art said:
			
		

> im stuck doing OJT for the 2-3 weeks before BOTP what are you doing?


  
  No clue, I've emailed my ULO but haven't heard back yet. I (and he, I think) initially thought leave but if you're doing OJT I likely will be as well. Hopefully it'll just be a CFRC near home or something so I can get my affairs in order before course, but whatever. I can't see them bothering to send us too far away for only 2 weeks or so.

PS Ed Art if you're going to use my actual name please spell it right- Bennett.


----------



## KMJAB (14 Apr 2008)

Everyone on this site keeps saying that SLT is not being offered to Combat Arms Officers after BMOQ anymore. However, my FM still references that I will normally be expected to undertake up to 33 weeks of SLT upon completion of BMOQ, as of my swearing in. 

Either way, I am happy to serve, but has anyone else (Combat Arms or other trades not "required" to do SLT) had this msg? Did they end up doing SLT after BMOQ on DEO? Is it possible that they are picking and choosing candidates to go on SLT based on CFAT or previous SLT?


----------



## amd491 (14 Apr 2008)

It may have changed, but I was on BOTP last summer, finished Aug 30th, and on our course the only people that were told they would have to do SLT (for english learning french) would be legal officers, public affairs, and pilots.  The reason for pilots?  Something for them to do while awaiting training since PFT is so backed up.

I just graduated, I'm not bilingual, and nothing has been said to me in regards to SLT. I was told that SLT would be provided as required... so if I moved up in the ranks, I would receive it then.

Everyone is really confused on this subject.  I know RMC is a different case, because isn't apart of RMC being bilingual?  I know the people I finished BOTP with from RMC are not continuing to their next phase, rather, are spending the summer doing SLT.

However, in my case, I have to double check my profile, and make sure I'm not listed as french speaking.  They offered me a french posting, and I hope someone didn't make the assumption based on my last name that I'm bilingual.  My dad always said I didn't listen to him in english, why would he bother speaking to me in french.   ;D :


----------



## benny88 (14 Apr 2008)

amd491 said:
			
		

> The reason for pilots?  Something for them to do while awaiting training since PFT is so backed up.


  
  Ha. They have to do something with us. I heard the wait for Moose Jaw was a year if you're lucky.


PS check out this thread for a list of trades requiring SLT 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/70923.0.html

It says that english pilots don't need it, but who knows.


----------



## KMJAB (14 Apr 2008)

Thanks for the link to the list benny88, but as I said, I was given this information very recently. It seems to conflict with the list of trades thread. I figure one of several possibilities may exist,

1. The list of trades for SLT is pretty much bible, and I will not be doing SLT, but the CFRC doesn't know or is for some reason is still required to officially say that I might be required to do SLT (and yes, I have spoken with CFRC and FM about this issue, they feel that SLT is happening, but that I will be told after BMOQ)

2. The list is not written in stone, and some form of selection for other trades for post-BMOQ SLT is ongoing

If anyone not in Pilot, Legal, Public Affairs or other listed trades HAS taken SLT in the last year or so after BMOQ, other than RMC (as referenced above), that would indicate scenario #2. If no-one on this board has had experience (direct, or someone they know) of DEO taking SLT after BMOQ and before CAP (reg  or reserve DEO) then that would suggest scenario #1, though other possibilities exist. 

I understand and totally accept that things will change, and the army will tell me when it is convenient for the army, but given that it might be up to 7 extra months prior to permanent posting, I am trying to get as much guidance as possible on the likelihood of SLT so that I can prepare the appropriate contingency plan for each scenario that is appropriately balanced for probabilities. 

I am sure that other DEO candidates may be experiencing the same sort of conflicting information, so any info people can offer about SLT course loading will be helpful in preparing for the next couple of years.

Thanks again.


----------



## amd491 (14 Apr 2008)

I personally know of 6 or 7 people that did their IAP/BOTP (whatever its being called now) that completed that and went on to their next phases (one Navy, the rest did CAP or had a CAP bypass) 

One was DEO, one had one semester of school before NETPO, the rest were CEOTP I think.

Just offering my knowledge on this.  My graduation information sheet said SLT, but when I inquired about it, I was told it wasn't really 'right'.

I know it sucks, but pretty much its a wait and see game.  One thing I've learned is that everything is always changing.  There are always new courses, new regulations, and new systems being put in place.


----------



## ChaosTheory (14 Apr 2008)

Does anyone know if CELE needs to do SLT or not?  That's what I am and I want to become bilingual.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (15 Apr 2008)

From this thread:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59087.60.html



			
				Rick Ruter said:
			
		

> SLT during DP1 for Anglo and Franco officers is limitted to Legal O, PAO and Social Worker. Franco Officers must have SLT in fol MOSIDs: AEC, AERE, AF ENGR, ANAV, CELE (Air), PLT, SIGS, MARS, MS ENG, NCS EMG, BIO, NUR and some CHAP.
> 
> SLT for NCMs is not mandatory and would only be provided if space available or for Command Chief Appointment. I looked at all 5 DPs (BMQ, PLQ, ILQ, ALQ and CQC) for NCM/Os, WOs and there is no mention of SLT.



I cannot confirm either way how current or correct this information is.


----------



## benny88 (15 Apr 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> From this thread:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59087.60.html
> 
> I cannot confirm either way how current or correct this information is.



That jives with the list I posted Eye in the Sky. I think that's pretty much the standard right now.


----------



## armyvern (26 May 2008)

Seems some more overhaul is underway wrt SLT ...

an area in constant motion ... from one of my emails recd at work:



> The present way of delivering SLET in the class room Monday to Friday 0800-1600 may not be sufficient to meet the present day demands of mbrs work schedules and deployments. IAW the Director of Official Language (DOL) National Defence Official Language Programs Transformation Model (NDOLPTM) http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dol/ENGRAPH/Cover_TransModel_e.asp [_DWAN only access_] the way of determining who requires SLET will change. In short the NDOLPTM states that those requiring SLET to do their business will get the necessary SLET as per the priorities determined by DOL. Not everyone will be able to access SLET as we presently know it.
> 
> That is not to say that those that are not one of the DOL priorities can not undergo SLET. As you have stated below those mbr seeking SLET to improve their career opportunities should have access to SLET programs. To meet this group of individuals CDA will be deploying a Distance Learning (DL) package of the Military Second Language Education and Training Program (MSLETP) on the DNDLearn platform. This DL package will be accessible by all CF mbr free of charge. It can be accessed via the DWAN or on their home computer. It has the same material as the in-house courses, same practice tests as the in-house course. Deployment date scheduled for Summer 08.
> 
> The deployment of the CDA DL MSLETP does not stop any mbr from taking other SLET course on their own at any civilian school. The only draw back to this is the mbr will have to pay for it out of their own pocket or get their unit to pay the cost for the SLET. Units can pay for their mbrs to undergo SLET at a local civilian language. CDA will not cover the cost for mbrs to undergo SLET at any civilian schools but we are working with the education reimbursement OPI at CDA to come to an agreement to allow mbrs to get reimbursed for undergoing SLET at civilian schools under the education reimbursed program. No date has been determined to get this done.



I'm quite interested to see the implementation/workings of the launch of SLT to the DNDLearn platform in addition to Language School offerings that is suggested in the email. It would certainly seem capable of making SLT more accessible to a wider network of personnel and easier to manage given the op tempo/upheaval/uncertain schedules most individual personnel & Units are faced with these days.


----------



## jzaidi1 (26 May 2008)

All,

What is the pass mark for SLT?  By the end of the course do they expect an officer to be fully bilingual?  I personally believe it is a waste of taxpayer dollars considering the rest of the operational world is speaking English.  I can understand francophones with limited English benefiting from this training - but then again I don't think I've met a Francophone who couldn't communicate in English, anyway and I've collectively spent months in Montreal, Quebec City, northern Quebec and northern New Brunswick.

Thoughts?

J


----------



## Adamant (26 May 2008)

Really the pass mark is 8 months.  But what you are to strive for is BBB minimum.  I acheived a BBA, then was sent on my way.  

I've heard tell of certain people who needed a CCC who had to stay as a matter of trade (or occupation) necessity, although for all I know it's just rumor and here-say.


----------



## scoutfinch (26 May 2008)

There is no 'pass mark'.  Depending on your prospective positions, you may require a B or C profile (ie. atleast some -- perhaps all? -- command positions require C. I was in class with a senior naval officer who had to attain Cs before leaving and two other senior officers (Navy/Air) who had been there for over a year working on Cs).   Given that you are not going in to command positions in your immediate future, I suspect you will require only Bs -- if you require SLT, at all.

There is no real minimum length of time as it depends on when you can obtain the profile required of your MOC.   I had passed the military testing in 6 weeks but could not do Public Service Canada testing until 10 weeks had passed.  The military testing does not give you a profile; it simply provides a guideline on what you need to work on for your PSC oral exams.  Your profile will come on completion of the PSC exams. 

My comments are based on my experience only, having completed SLT 5 months ago at one of the satellite schools.


----------



## ChaosTheory (26 May 2008)

Last summer in St. Jean I met numerous Francophones who could not speak a lick of English.


----------



## scoutfinch (26 May 2008)

What is your point?


----------



## ChaosTheory (26 May 2008)

Fireball said:
			
		

> ... but then again I don't think I've met a Francophone who couldn't communicate in English, anyway and I've collectively spent months in Montreal, Quebec City, northern Quebec and northern New Brunswick.
> 
> Thoughts?



That, is my point.


----------



## scoutfinch (26 May 2008)

...let me clarify -- is there a point related to SLT?


----------



## megany (26 May 2008)

With respect to ArmyVern's post - I would think that having SLT offered solely through distance would be a bit of a hindrance since one would think that there would be less focus/time put into the process.  

I always find that learning languages is best through Immersion, followed by classroom settings and then finally distance.  It would be interesting to see what happens with the end of traditional SLT, if that is what happens.


----------



## armyvern (27 May 2008)

megsy said:
			
		

> With respect to ArmyVern's post - I would think that having SLT offered solely through distance would be a bit of a hindrance since one would think that there would be less focus/time put into the process.
> 
> I always find that learning languages is best through Immersion, followed by classroom settings and then finally distance.  It would be interesting to see what happens with the end of traditional SLT, if that is what happens.



I don't think that the move is to eliminate the SLT Courses from the classroom setting. The exerpt from the email from Ottawa that I posted didn't say that. There are still those MOSIDs/Positions that need that BBB/CCC profile -- they'll still get the in-house courses. It's everyone else who won't. Op tempo & personnel taskings have been a huge hinderance to SLT ... who has time or what Unit can really afford to have their personnel away for a year on SLT given the manning shortages we face?

The DL seems to be directed towards all those personnel who apply for, but are denied, "in-house" SLT either by their CoC (who can't afford to lose them when the course is "not required") or by the system itself who needs to concentrate on getting pers/posns into the few "in-house" spots that are available.

People like me, who've been asking for it for years to hear "no, no, no" will be the beneficiaries of DL delivery. We'll be volunteering for it -- as no one who "requires" it will be doing DL; so, perhaps we may get something out of it because we have shown the interest. We'll get out of it - whatever we put into it.

SLT spots on in-house are becoming tighter each passing course. The heads-up on the forthcoming policy that will require CF members being promoted to CWO to posess a "BBB" profile as of 2011 certainly won't see any increased "in-house" space availbility ... so they've had to step outside the box to come up with something else for the rest of us.

It's certainly not going to be the same as "being there", but I hope it's sucessful. A DL delivery is better than _*no*_ delivery, and that's pretty much what it comes down to these days.

Vern


----------



## PMedMoe (27 May 2008)

I'm being posted to a position that is bilingual, BBB.  I wonder if I'll finally get a French course?  :


----------



## jzaidi1 (27 May 2008)

Imagine being a linguist for the CF.  When I was in Sigs, I worked with a couple.  Mostly these linguist guys hang out with EW or Intel folks.  One MCPL I worked with in Kingston was proficient in English, French, Russian and so-so Kurdish (I believe) - the latter 3 languages were taught to him in the CF.  Imagine how long that took.

J

p.s I still believe SLT is a waste of time for most MOCs


----------

