# How do you deal with Anti-War people....



## D-n-A (18 Jun 2003)

A few days ago, I was in uniform, waiting for my bus(I showed up at my armourie in uniform, because I was gonna work dragon boat, but I showed up late, cause I got the wrong time, an my ride was gone, so I had to take the bus back home, when the bus came an I got on, as soon as I was going to a seat, some anti-war girl, asked if I was in the army, an I said yes, then she came to the seat next to me, an started asking me things like why I joined up(was I forced to enlist), an then she started saying that war‘s bad, I‘m brainwashd, if I enjoy fighting/ murdering blah blah blah

I just said, I‘m not brainwashed, an I wasnt forced to join up. an that I wasn‘t a murderer, an I dont know what fighting‘s like since I‘v never seen combat, just things like that

an I also had "no comment" on the war in Iraq


anyways, I‘m just wondering if any of you have had this happen, an how you handle it


also, I have nothing against the protesters or anti-war people, I just dont like when they come up an start talkin crap about me for enlisting or about the military


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## Fader (18 Jun 2003)

I think the best thing you can do is just come across as a real person.

Alot of those anti-war people you described are what I like to call "idiots."  Don‘t get me wrong, I‘m an anti-war person myself, and I guess I‘m an idiot sometimes too, but with my limited military experience, I at least have reasonable justifications for being opposed to war.

Most people like that are opposed to war and act like idiots towards military personal because they have the belief that we‘re all barbaric warmongers without feeling and emotion.  I think the best way to deal with those people is let them realize through your actions that you‘re not a barbaric warmonger, and that you‘re a human being, just like they are, with real feelings and convictions.  Make them see that you‘re not just some puppet trained to fight and die.


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## meni0n (18 Jun 2003)

I would have said that she‘s pretty ignorant and that she should do some research before preaching.


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## Pikache (18 Jun 2003)

Never lose your temper, even if you had too many to drink or you get comments like ‘babykiller‘.

Be friendly and open to discussion. Be confident in your discussion. Helps if you‘re knowledgeable about current events revolving around war.

Heck, I could have picked up really hot chick with discussions like this.


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## sgtdixon (18 Jun 2003)

Hey RHF a Word of advice
she may be hot but if she is a die hard anti war protester she may be quite the hirsute honey under her clothes    
Just a little heads up  :dontpanic:


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## Gunnar (18 Jun 2003)

How do you handle people who come up to you on the bus and try to sell you a new religion?  Did you ask to have a discussion of your personal belief system?  I‘d tell her to bugger off.  ;-)

However, if they are genuinely curious because the beliefs that made you want to join up are so *alien* to them that they can‘t see your reasons, and they are *curious*, not condemnatory, you may wish to explain...sometimes people really don‘t see the forest for the trees and you really *can* broaden their horizons.  He||, maybe you‘ll get her to convince more taxpayers of the necessity of our Armed Forces.

Dixon:  Thank God there‘s someone out there who concentrates on the essentials!  ;P


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## WINDWOLF (18 Jun 2003)

That,s a tough one D-n-a.
The suggestions you have got are good,but i 
have run into these types before & tried the
civil discussion. Don,t work with diehards.

The best i could come up with is that no
soldier wants to see war,but we are at least
willing to fight if we have to, are they?

Tends to shut them up long enought to escape & evade.But keep your back to the wall.They may 
not want war,but have no problem taking a swing
at you when your backs turned.

    :warstory:


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## rolandstrong (18 Jun 2003)

I see you are from BC, so that explains a lot. I live on the Sunshine Coast (Gibsons), and deal with these issues a great deal. Many parts of our region were settled by Vietnam draft dodgers, and the community is evenly split between anti-establishment and nationalistic Canadians. I am proud to be in the Canadian Army reserves, and when somebody up here sees me in uniform or finds out I am involved, 10 to 1 I am hit with some kinda heavy rhetoric. I have been called everything from a war monger to a Nazi by at least 5 people. As Lui said, being true to yourself is the best place to be. They have the issues, they are the aggressor. 

Remember it is a trendy culture to look and act like a "hippie". It is retro-sixties time, and 99% of these people have no clue what they are discussing. I mostly tell these people to bug off, as respectfully as possible, sometimes not so respectfully at all (depending on what their approach is). 

One thing I do believe...you can‘t be a soldier, reg force or reserve, without pride. Why should we have to hide the fact that we serve Canada‘s best interests? It is the public that starts wars, not soldiers. Their vote sends us to conflict...we have been hired by them (through the government they elect) to do what they want. I will certainly wear my uniform with pride, even though some people don‘t understand its meaning.


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## WINDWOLF (18 Jun 2003)

Centre of mass & well said Roland.


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## Danjanou (18 Jun 2003)

Nice to see some things in Lotus Land haven‘t changed in oh 25 yrs. I remember riding the bus home from parade nights at the Burrard Street Armouries in the late 1970‘s in uniform and getting the "look" usually followed by the almost requisite "baby burner" and/or "facist" comment. 

Back then you even got it in civvies too as long hair was in style, and anyone with short hair had to be a ......

Got ragged on the flower children types at Capilano College on occasion. 

The ****  with them, we know better.


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## D-n-A (18 Jun 2003)

thanks for the advice guys, I‘ll keep it mind next time one of these anti-war *trendy* people start saying things to me


when I told my dad about it, he just laughed an said some things never change(he had to deal with a lot of anti-war people, since he served in the US Army an fought in Vietnam)


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## Jarnhamar (20 Jun 2003)

A lot of people don‘t like cops. They enforce rules, some unpopular so they are made to look like the bad guy. If someone is ever robbed or assaulted though all of a sudden that cop is their best friend. They love the police. Their uncle wanted to be a cop bla bla. Same with the army.
Same with the army. Stupid people see someone in the army and they know that, just like the police, they can call you names and be morons and you still have to defend them. They are the ultimate cowards.

Watch out when you try and enlighten someone. Say the wrong thing and you can get in big ****.


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## Wolfe117 (21 Jun 2003)

I woulda said "Well it‘s nice to hear your opinion considering brainwashed idiots like me are the only reason you have the right to opinion."
Or "Opinions are like *******s, everyone seems to have one"  :mg:


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## deathwing5 (17 Jul 2003)

Those anti-war people who say things like you‘re a nazi and fascist, literaly sicken me, I think my only response to them would be my lunch in their face.


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## portcullisguy (20 Jul 2003)

I think I would probably tell them that I support their right to voice their opinion freely, since it was the armed services that guaranteed that right at various times throughout the history of this great nation.

They don‘t have to like the army, and they don‘t have to agree with it, but the fact that they can vocalize their opinions is proof that we have one of the best armed services in one of the best countries in the world.

At the end of the day, my opinion in support of the army, and their opinion against the army, are both irrelevant.  Canada will always have an armed force ready to defend our values and interests, and it will always wear green.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

Sometimes I really want to know where people get their opinins and facts from.  I‘m not saying they shouldnt say their opinions cuz that‘s just bad.  But there were some people who really pissed me off at school with their anti everything talk. This one guy I really hate just complains about everything in this country, he‘s rich, he‘s depressed, and he‘s lazy and he‘s disrespecting soldiers who fought for and died for this country. I was gonna knock him out, but he was a dumbass so I tried to keep a little self-discipline. I just want to know what runs through his head sometimes.


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

Ignore them,

I have been spat on in full dress with gong‘s and still marched past with my head held high just to show disciplin and bearing of the C.F.

Around the corner I swore my F‘n head off and had civies come up to me and ask why I didn‘t drop them,I told them it would have just proved their point.

I‘m a soldier for the defence of my country,
I‘m not here to beat on long haired,dope smokin,commie,pinko faggot‘s.

I was taken to the nearest pub by a couple of elderly gent‘s and was stood around of the best and was thanked for what I did and told we hope all our soldier‘s are like you.
I said no worry.

Just ignore the eediot‘s,Ignoranus‘.

If in combat‘s beat the crap out of the @#%6#$%
LOL!
DOH! did I just say that?


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

Wow what a massive prick.  What reason could he have to spit on you.  He‘s lucky it‘s not like Turkey entire freaking army would beat the **** out of him if they saw it happen.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

*I‘m not here to beat on long haired,dope smokin,commie,pinko faggot‘s.*

Spr.Earl, it‘s good that you didn‘t beat on them and what not, but, uhhhh, are you saying that all long-haired, dope-smoking, "commies", and "faggots" are bad people? I highly doubt that. I have long haired friends, dope-smoking friends, communist friends, and gay, lesbian, and trans friends, and all the above combos as well, and uhmmm, not all of them are like that, and not all of them are anti-war, and not all of them spit on soldiers.    

By the way, I‘m assuming you think that being gay is wrong, and hence the word "faggot", but may I urge you to think about it twice? They‘re not hurting you in any way, are they?    

But, I must say, you did the right, respectable thing, and I am glad that there are people out there who don‘t return the like with the like in situations like these - it gives a wrong/bad picture of the CF. 

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

The man was spit on i‘m sure he said all that because it pisses him off to think about it. It‘s exactly what i would‘ve said to let the steam off if i was spit on. Except without the commies, I dont have much experience with them. or should I?


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

My dear young Lady,

 For your infomation my boss is queer as a queen bee,so don‘t lecture me on the gay life, because we talk openly about his life style and joke about it using all the macho slang and he teach‘s us the gay slang about us straight‘s,men and women and their slang is more derogitory than striaght‘s.So give me a break!!

 As to my comment about *** ‘s it work‘s better than saying Kliener Schizer Kopf‘s! JA?

I have held off over your Political Science Lecture‘s you have posted.
 Your diatribe‘s only work in R.M.C.,not amongst the rank‘s.

 You young lady had better wake up if you wish to join the Military,I don‘t think your going to be a pilot,if you were going to be one you would be in now by now!

 What you need is a reality check!
Most of the folk‘s here are Combat Arm‘s,not air Farce!

There a lot of us who have been there,seen it,gotten more than one T-shirt and a lot more we wish we had not gotten but still stay‘s with us.

I‘ll leave it here Missy.

Just for info I have 27yrs in and still counting.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

*Except without the commies, I dont have much experience with them. or should I?*

LOL. You don‘t want to do that...     

No, but seriously, I know a lot of Commies, and most of the people I know are anti-war, etc., but they‘re not like those ignorant people who just yell and shout without knowing what they‘re talking about. At one point, I was amongst their community, you know, during rallies and stuff, just went out there to watch, but most of them don‘t know what they‘re talking about. The few who do, you can have very good debates with them, but they are really fixed in their views, etc. And just VERY VERY few of the commies I‘ve talked to didn‘t get angry when I told them I was thinking of joining the Army/Air Force. LOL     
Just a tip: don‘t talk to them when you‘re anywhere on the street and they know you‘re a soldier, might have bad consequences - most of them are high on dope 24/7, or at least the ones I‘ve seen, and they get real violent, I‘ve seen them on the front line at a rally, and boy, were they violent with the cops!      But in the end, they lose, and you win.   

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

lol what kind of commies are those? 

My iranian friend who‘s also a kurd, had a fight with a kurd community who were commies, they are very fixed in their views but it wasnt anti-war most of them were very set on war.  She was pissed at them cuz they couldnt think of any other way to settle disputes other than war. I ain‘t like that, but i suppose lookin into myself I see events in the past when I suddenly started fights without thinking too much of other ways to solve it.  I want the army to make me a better man, then I can serve my country better.

Hey by the way is there still peacekeeping in armenia going on? If there‘s in the future i‘d like to be sent there.

You shouldn‘t be so sensitive to comments like faggot, it happens in real life u can‘t just make everyone say everything in a fuzzy bunny sentence.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

I really liked your story of self-discipline, mine doesnt match up but here‘s one where i didnt lose it.

I was a telemarketer (yes, those guys who annoy you when you‘re eating dinner) I called this one guy and I said hi my name is Hasan and suddenly he went into this thing. He started calling me a terrorist and bombing WTC.  Sh!t bout islam and crap calling me names. Instead of telling him that I know where he lives and i‘m gonna burn his house, I let my friends‘ co-workers listen to the loser and then we laughed in his face, and i ended the call professionaly as i could.  That guy was a nut.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

Spr.Earl,

Give me a break! I was *ONLY* referring to the context in which you put the word "faggot", and naturally, I don‘t know you have a queer boss, because I don‘t know your past, so it was all vague to me, and besides, I never said you were homophobic.   

*You young lady had better wake up if you wish to join the Military,I don‘t think your going to be a pilot,if you were going to be one you would be in now by now!*

I‘ve already made up my mind. Don‘t tell me what I‘m going to be, because nobody tells me what I‘m going to be. But of course, I would be in the Air Force if I *COULD*, and I can‘t because of the citizenship/landed immigrant requirements. But heck, I know what I want to do, and what I am going to do, and that‘s all that matters. Determination. 

*What you need is a reality check!*

I had my reality check when I was 16, and although it was NOT a good experience, I am happy that it happened back then.   


*Most of the folk‘s here are Combat Arm‘s,not air Farce!*

Most of the people here are lurkers who don‘t ask anything but stupid questions like "are they allowed to wear earrings in the army" and so on. I am not arguing against you people, I am discussing with you. Remember, when I join the Air Force or the Army, I will be one of the many people you and others on this board will have to cooperate with for our country.    But of course, I could‘ve changed my name to PilotBoy, and come in as a knowledgeable young man who knew what he wanted to do but the tragedy of his circumstances wouldn‘t let him into the Air Force, and you would all listen to "him" and nod in agreement, instead of casting "him" into the category of the feeble, fragile, naive, college girl who needs a reality check, and who won‘t be able to get into the military. Come and talk to me in 5 years, and we shall see where I am.   

And another thing, I never did say anything bad about your experiences or your service in the CF! I have a deep respect for you and anyone else who serves in the armed forces, whether you believe me or not. 

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

what would be deemed a reality check. lol i‘m sorry i didnt understand were u trying to say that if u were a man we‘d all agree and understand u?


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

*lol what kind of commies are those? *

Hippie style commies! Pacifists! People who claim that peace can solve it all! People who yell "NO to American imperialism!" without knowing the meaning of imperialism... People who smoke weed 24/7 and are too numb to think about anything but swearing at those who aren‘t with them. People who dance in the streets, spend most of their time laughing and doing drugs, getting piercings, tattoos, new hairstyles... Those are the commies I‘ve seen. The socialists are a bit different, they also yell slogans they‘ve learned by heart, but they‘re more uhhhhh, how do I say this, political and militant in their agendas. LOL. 


*Hey by the way is there still peacekeeping in armenia going on? If there‘s in the future i‘d like to be sent there.*

I believe there still is peacekeeping going on in Armenia, yes. But I might be wrong, I don‘t read Armenian news that often.   

*You shouldn‘t be so sensitive to comments like faggot, it happens in real life u can‘t just make everyone say everything in a fuzzy bunny sentence.*

I guess you‘re right.   

D.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

*what would be deemed a reality check. lol i‘m sorry i didnt understand were u trying to say that if u were a man we‘d all agree and understand u?*

What do you mean? My reality check was something really personal, and it made me think about what I really wanted to do with my life and what I could realistically do. That‘s what I meant by that.

As for what I said about being a man, etc. - I didn‘t mean that you would agree with me and understand me, but you wouldn‘t look down upon me as a "naive", "college girl" who "dreams" of becoming a pilot. You know what I mean?

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

Hey pilotgal are you filipina in any way?


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

Pilot Girl/Boy,what ever.

Homophobic! LOL

 If that was the case I would buy alternate life style milk instead of HOMO.

 Good on you if you are determined to sign up,but a bit of advice,see all,hear all,say nowt!
Old English proverb.

Lurker‘s!!!

You would be surprised who drop‘s in here,like I said,see all,hear all,say nowt!

I thank you for your respect for my service.

Just a bit of advice,engage brain before mouth and if you have this same attitude when you join will have trouble.The military don‘t like smart arse‘s and keep your political belief‘sto your self,in the C.F. we are apolitical!!


 I wish you the best of luck in all your endevour‘s.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

Is there a difference between HOMO milk and the others, cuz i drink homo. lol. bad wording.


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

Arty a man of my Ilk,LOL
Still giggling ,LOL


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

Hmmmm. Apolitical? I‘m not sure if I agree with that... Maybe pretending to be apolitical? I‘m sure EVERYONE has their own views in their minds, but maybe in the military, you just don‘t say it out loud.    

By the way, I like the humour you two (Arty Aygun and Spr. Earl) have! LOL!   

Arty Aygun, ummmmm no... I‘m an Armenian on both sides of my family.    

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

Oh wow. An armenian on both sides.  

Spr. Earl is a good guy.

Yeah well almost everyone has political views. 

You know Syrian people seem to hate me cuz i‘m turkish. I dont get that deal.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

*Spr. Earl is a good guy.*

*looking at Spr. Earl*    Ya, I‘m sure he is. Never said he wasn‘t.   

*You know Syrian people seem to hate me cuz i‘m turkish. I dont get that deal.*

Hmmmmm... well, I know what you mean... My parents hate Turks (you know, cos of all that happened in 1915), but well, I don‘t hate anyone, and I think they will hate me if I tell them that LOL. My dad was born in Syria, by the way.    My parents don‘t like the fact that I want to join the armed forces.    But well, too bad that they‘re not enthusiastic about it, cos I‘ve already made up my mind.    Oh and I‘m working on convincing my sister to enter the Air Force too, as an engineer (she‘s doing her master‘s in Aerospace Engineering), but she‘s a pacifist, and she was upset when I told her I was planning on becoming a pilot and flying fighter jets. LOL. 

D.


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## gate_guard (20 Jul 2003)

Pilotgal,
Why do you make the ignorant generalization that most of the "lurkers" here are nothing more than wannabe recruits (like you)?


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

*looking at Spr. Earl*  Ya, I‘m sure he is. Never said he wasn‘t. *
lol u must be used to defending yourself on these forums 

Well if she‘s a pacifist i guess you should let her be.  When I told my mom she‘s like dont get sent off to afghanistan, my dad‘s just like dont screw up.  Now whenever i do something wrong they‘re like the army‘s not gonna want you. Or what will the army say if you did that you can‘t just F- around. my family is like an army anyway, not one i‘d like to join.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Jul 2003)

Dropping bombs on people when you can‘t even see them, evil i say.

Im a pacifist too. 
People ask how can i be a pacifist when im in the army.
What IS a pacifist though? Someone who destroys their weapons and waits for someone to invade their home, hurt their family and does not fight back when they do OR is it someone who hangs their weapons up and hopes for peace but is ready to defend their family and home.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

I like the pasifists that wont start fights, but they will fight when necessary.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Jul 2003)

Punch the anti war person in the face.
When they ask you why you did it tell them you are teaching them an important life skill. Defend yourself or get hurt.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

gate_guard,

I never said they are nothing more than wannabe recruits.    I don‘t assume what they know and what they don‘t until they talk about what they know.   

Here is what I wrote:
"Most of the people here are lurkers who don‘t ask anything but stupid questions like "are they allowed to wear earrings in the army" and so on."

I was referring to the fact that people criticize those who talk more than just asking questions about recruitment process, etc. That is, the general view that if you‘re not in the army yet, or are thinking of applying or in the process of applying, all you can ask is recruitment questions.   

D.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

*lol u must be used to defending yourself on these forums*

Hmmm? LOL. I wasn‘t defending myself. I was just telling you what I said and what I didn‘t.    But I guess I‘m defending myself right here too. LOL!   

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

lol yes. But that‘s alrite. You‘re making things interesting.  

I really like this forum, I can talk about army related things. Till i can get into the military. 
3 freaking days left till i can do my last process and that‘s it.  I‘m confident things will go good.


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## Spr.Earl (20 Jul 2003)

Young Lady,
The only one‘s who get slagged are those who are to bone idle to search with in this site and keep coming up with the same question‘s.

We are not all as inteligent as you.
Remember we are only worker bee‘s


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

OK, I didn‘t get what you meant by that, Spr. Earl, and I think it‘s all for the better.   

You guys need *more* sense of humour.   

D.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

My history teacher is in the reserves and he has a good sense of humour, Like when this one guy tripped infront of the class i was the only one laughing out loud and everybody else was asking him are you okay? or they had blank looks. When i looked over at my teacher he was smiling. I consider that a sense of humour. He held it in quiet nicely though I can‘t.  I ended up making some other people laugh at him, he was red when he got up.


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## PilotGal (20 Jul 2003)

LOL. I always laugh at myself when I fall or something, or even hurt myself in any way accidentally.    I don‘t know why, but it just comes out naturally. Heh. One day my geography teacher had his pant ripped in front of the whole class by the chair or something, and everyone was like silent cos they were scared of being yelled at, etc., cos the teacher was really harsh most of the time, and I was all red from trying to stop laughing, and everyone was like looking at me. LOL. He didn‘t do anything about the fact that I was laughing though. Heh.


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## deathwing5 (20 Jul 2003)

That sounds like my ordeal, but i actually burst out laughing at first then i tried to hide it, but other people turned their heads away and laughed inside.  

Me too when i fall i just start laughing, I had a teacher that didnt know his pants were ripped at the crotch area, so he‘s sitting on top of the desk teaching us, and me and my friend are making jokes. 

And we are so off topic, lol


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## ForeverPvt (22 Jul 2003)

It seems that the general concensus is to treat the antiwar folks with kid gloves.  Nine times out ten it works too.  When in uniform, it‘s always best to be polite and discuss how we are not sadistic killers out to collect ears, but I‘ll never forget the look on that hippie‘s face after getting butt stroked by my FN.  Ah, the good old days...


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## max flinch (22 Jul 2003)

"Most of the people here are lurkers who don‘t ask anything but stupid questions like "are they allowed to wear earrings in the army" and so on."

Maybe all of us who are in the know should find out where they live and go beat the crap out of them, hey, PilotGal? 

Having read quite a few of your many posts as of late, I would say that you should show the same patience and tolerance to those who ask what you cosider a â€˜stupidâ€™ question with the same patience and tolerance that some of your questions, arguments, and assertions have been treated by others. You debate with nothing more than â€˜things you readâ€™ against people who have years of experience in the Canadian Forces â€“ in some instances, people who joined before you were born. It comes across as awfully â€˜wet behind the earsâ€™ to argue from ideas and principles found in a book (which is really just the authorâ€™s opinion passed to you via the printed word) against the experience of people who have been in a given setting, situation, and circumstance, and can speak to their view with that experience backing it up.

If you ever succeed in joining the Canadian Forces (and I wish you luck, as I just finished a lengthy wait to rejoin, so I sympathize with your impatience at being made to wait), here are some tidbits of wisdom that were given to me when I first joined. They have served me well:

1. â€œDonâ€™t speak unless youâ€™ve got something to say.â€
2. â€œIf you donâ€™t know what youâ€™re talking about, see rule #1.â€
3. â€œThe only stupid question is the one that doesnâ€™t get asked.â€


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## max flinch (22 Jul 2003)

Oh, just to get back on the track of how to deal with people who choose to hassle you because of your membership in the Canadian Forces: I agree with the kid gloves statement, because there are those who are hoping for a confrontation, since that would fulfill their view of us as ‘war-mongering jack-booted fascists.‘

My only personal encounter with this happened at the University of Socialistic Left Wing Diatribe - Oops, I mean, Victoria, in the early ‘90s. I was at eating lunch with friends, and a couple of girls who knew I was in the militia were at me about all the evils the military has brought upon the face of the world, blah blah blah. I calmly said, "I‘ve helped to train six people who are currently trying to keep peace in Bosnia right now. What have you done to make the world a better place?" No response was forthcoming.


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## deathwing5 (22 Jul 2003)

LOL oh man, Great job!


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## Cycophant (22 Jul 2003)

> "I‘ve helped to train six people who are currently trying to keep peace in Bosnia right now. What have you done to make the world a better place?"


Absolutely beautiful.  Short, to the point, and the fact that they were rendered speachless gives it a power all of its own.


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## Michael Dorosh (23 Jul 2003)

I‘ll had my kudos for that statement to the young dears.  Well done.


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