# They're not Stupid, they're New



## Michael OLeary (1 Jan 2009)

*They're not Stupid, they're New*

Every once in a while the tone of the forum shifts, and not necessarily for the better.  Sarcasm and poorly phrased advice gets offered in response to innocent questions.  Those replies get misinterpreted. They get responded to in kind, and then another thread heads for the trash, useless for continued discussion or for future reference.  

And every so often one of the staff writes a little diatribe like this one to remind people to settle down, behave and treat newbies as if they were one of their own subordinates – who they wouldn't treat the way they do some of the people who dare to cross our threshold and enter Milnet.ca looking for advice or information.  

Often, too often, these threads develop because some “experienced” member takes offence to the innocent question of a newbie.  Perhaps the question crosses operational security concerns, or the wrong terms (usually Americanized ones) are used, or their question just isn't showing an understanding of priorities that the “experienced” member thinks it should.

The threads don't go badly because of the newbie's question.  They go badly because of the tone and style of the “experienced” member's response and the reaction that response attracts.  The fault goes, in almost every case, to the member who should have been patient, who should have been helpful, who should have remembered that they too were once new, and knew little or nothing about the CF themselves.  (Or that “experienced” member should have just refrained from posting, the toughest choice of all for any inadvertent troll.)

To put it as simply as I can: _They're not stupid, they're new._   If we can't welcome them here and help them learn and understand, how can we expect them to anticipate a welcoming and learning environment on Basic training or afterwards?

So, why do people ask those questions that others treat as inappropriate?

Operational security issues. - Usually because they don't understand the concept, or the issue. Simply slamming them for “OPSEC” doesn't explain why they can't get an answer.  Sorting out a thread after such a smack-down takes a lot more energy, often from a number of participants, than if the first respondent had just explained the issue and explained that an answer couldn't be posted.  Such a simple solution, but apparently an elusive one.

Wrong terms. - How about: _they just don't know_.  If they didn't grow up in a (Canadian) military family, or have prior experience, then how can we expect them to fully grasp the language, the acronyms and to know which are appropriately Canadian terms to satisfy the anal-retentive knuckle rappers, and which are simply American terms learned from mass media.  We can help and teach, or we can just tell them to go away.  If we do the latter, maybe a very suitable candidate will reconsider that trip to the Recruiting Centre, and we, Milnet.ca, can be responsible for failing to support CF recruiting.

Wrong priorities. - Whether it be questions on what gets taught on Basic Infantry, or what an Engineer carries, or how to correct indirect fire, these aren't stupid questions.  Maybe the individual has covered the basics and is looking to reach further, using the best resource available – the members of Milnet.ca.  Maybe the questioner just hasn't been given enough information to understand that they're getting ahead of themselves.  Perhaps some investigative questions and a better understanding of their viewpoint would lead to helpful answers rather than telling them they just don't need that info yet.  Do we want to recruit robots who wait to be told every little thing?  I thought we were promoting the idea of intelligent soldiering, use of initiative and use of all available resources.  Well guess what, we are that resource for many new potential recruits, and we need to fill that role in a responsible manner.

Profiles. - We don't require profiles to be filled in.  Some members choose not to and if they stick around can build excellent credibility without ever filling in that profile.  An empty profile is not a reason for accusations or suspicion.  Throwing down that gauntlet only puts a new member on the defensive, which does not create a welcoming atmosphere. 

We can welcome new members, and help those looking to learn about the Canadian Forces, or we can be a closed unwelcoming little internet club of bullies.  We each get to choose our role.  The one mystifying aspect is why, when someone decides not to be helpful, they decide to insert themselves in a thread and derail it with a useless agenda of aggression.

*It's time, once again, as we enter a new year, for everyone to review not only what they get out of Milnet.ca, but also what they contribute, and how.*


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## Celticgirl (1 Jan 2009)

Hear, hear! Great post, Mr. O'Leary.


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## Sigs Pig (1 Jan 2009)

That was a good read!

I am one of those with the 'empty profile" and do so because I like to keep to myself and always raise the shields when asked for personal information, esp. at stores that want your name or phone number. Someday I may give more of myself, but for sure not until I hit the 25 post mark. (If I can't see yours, you WON'T see mine!    )

I also don't say much and do a lot of trolling, that's just me, not someone with an ulterior motive. It has been a struggle to try and reach 25 posts.

Well, I am going to go out and great the new year in,
ME


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## Mike Bobbitt (1 Jan 2009)

Thanks Micheal, that was timely and appropriate. I know many of us are guilty of it once in a while - sometimes a new user seems too easy a target to pass up. But you've laid out the problem and solution perfectly here, and I hope everyone takes a few minutes to read this post.

Let me also add that we're now taking a *"you've been warned"* approach to unneccessary roughness. Any aggressive posts, especially to a new member, will be summarily deleted. If you're not jumping in to the thread to help (or report it, if it's truly a problem) please just keep on driving by.

If anyone has any questions or comments, please let me know. I'm always open to a public discussion on these issues.


Cheers and Happy 2009
Mike


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## The Anti-Royal (1 Jan 2009)

Well put, Mike.
  
Happy New Year to you and to all at milnet.ca.


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## geo (1 Jan 2009)

Michael & Mike.....
Thank you - a short refresher on some basic "netiquette" will never hurt anyone


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## George Wallace (1 Jan 2009)

Sigs Pig said:
			
		

> That was a good read!
> 
> I am one of those with the 'empty profile" and do so because I like to keep to myself and always raise the shields when asked for personal information, esp. at stores that want your name or phone number. Someday I may give more of myself, but for sure not until I hit the 25 post mark. (If I can't see yours, you WON'T see mine!    )
> 
> ...



Interesting!

Just a thought.  Most of the people who may ask you to fill in your profile, are the people who have been on the site for a long time and have numerous posts under their belts.  It is not likely that a "unknown quality" poster will be asking you for your profile, as they can not usually view it.  

Just a thought.


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## Cpl4Life (1 Jan 2009)

Thanks for posting this.  I had it happen to me and it was, thankfully, short lived but still uncomfortable as a new person to army.ca.


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## NL_engineer (1 Jan 2009)

Sigs Pig said:
			
		

> That was a good read!
> 
> I am one of those with the 'empty profile" and do so because I like to keep to myself and always raise the shields when asked for personal information, esp. at stores that want your name or phone number. Someday I may give more of myself, but for sure not until I hit the 25 post mark. (If I can't see yours, you WON'T see mine!    )



All you have to do is put something in your profile, look at mine; all you can really get is my MOC.


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## George Wallace (1 Jan 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> All you have to do is put something in your profile, look at mine; all you can really get is my MOC.



 ;D

He can't look at yours, as he hasn't been on the site long enough to attain that ability.

Profiles can be as personal as you want then to be.  They can be Blank.  They can be 'Generic'.  They can also provide complete disclosure.  It will depend on your own personal "security" concerns how you want to fill it out, or not.


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## GAP (1 Jan 2009)

I assume (there's that word again) that this does not add longevity to Trolls?


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## aesop081 (1 Jan 2009)

I submit that its possible for one to be both new and stupid.

When a brand new member reads 4 posts out of a 17 page thread and states information that was posted in that thread several times as if it was some big revalation..........

When a pretty junior reserve infantry private comes into an air force thread telling a pilot applicant that he has very poor chances of going to Tac Hel.......


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## George Wallace (1 Jan 2009)

GAP said:
			
		

> I assume (there's that word again) that this does not a longevity to Trolls?



You shouldn't post from the New Year's Levee...... ;D

I am sure that the 'quality' of one's posts would preclude any TROLL from having a longer life span on the site than the norm that we have set.


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## GAP (1 Jan 2009)

Then they need to be told to "Stay in their Lanes" period.....

edited to add: yeah, kinda looks like huh.......for once my brain was quicker than my fingers.....


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## Michael OLeary (1 Jan 2009)

GAP said:
			
		

> Then they need to be told to "Stay in their Lanes" period.....



Which might also require actually explaining what "their Lane" means.


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## George Wallace (1 Jan 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I submit that its possible for one to be both new and stupid.
> 
> When a brand new member reads 4 posts out of a 17 page thread and states information that was posted in that thread several times as if it was some big revalation..........
> 
> When a pretty junior reserve infantry private comes into an air force thread telling a pilot applicant that he has very poor chances of going to Tac Hel.......



You can hit the Report to Mod button.

A Mod can instantly DELETE such posts if caught in time.........before someone quotes the individual in question, expanding on the problem.


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## Haggis (1 Jan 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You shouldn't post from the New Year's Levee...... ;D



Why not?  :blotto:

Never mind....


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