# Roy Green: An opportunity to honour reservists



## the 48th regulator (21 Dec 2010)

reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from the National Post;


http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/12/21/roy-green-an-opportunity-to-honour-reservists/#ixzz18l2E2u5G


*Roy Green: An opportunity to honour reservists
*

National Post  December 21, 2010 – 8:51 am 

Here’s a suggestion that — just perhaps — could become more than that.

Consider Canada’s military reservists. The part-timer who serves the army, navy and air force. The part-timer who swears the oath of loyalty to the nation and wears the uniform with pride. The part-timer who stands on guard alongside his professional counterparts.

For the reservist who volunteers for active duty in a war zone, Canada could show its gratitude by introducing a program that would, when the reservist returns to Canada, make available fully funded education or other career path training. In addition to such funding a living allowance would be provided to the reservist and his or her spouse or partner for the period involved. It is that simple.

Yes, there is some assistance available to reservists. One option is $2,000 annually to defray education costs for a four-year period. How far does $2,000 take you?

The inspiration for the proposal is Corporal Philip Howie. I’ve known Phil and his family (his stepfather is a retired Hamilton police officer) for some years and have tracked Corporal Howie’s time on the front lines in Afghanistan. Two voluntary tours, including convoy protection duty where contact with IEDs (improvised explosive devices) is inevitable. During his first tour there was the marriage proposal to Alison. As a newlywed Phil deployed for a second mission during which Alison and Phil’s baby was born.

Today Corporal Howie looks to build a career and a future in a civilian environment. It isn’t easy.

Canada exhibits great generosity and compassion for many both inside and outside our national borders.

Providing education or career development funding for Canada’s military reservists who volunteer for the most dangerous of assignments would be both generous and compassionate, but also more than that. It would be an investment in the future. These men and women have demonstrated their love for and commitment to Canada. Providing them with the means to hone their skills would ultimately be of benefit to us all.

There have been objections, one from a member of Canada’s regular military forces who while not challenging the value of the contribution of his citizen military counterparts pointed out he isn’t privy to such a program.

So far no one is. I just felt we should start somewhere and Corporal Howie and his mates seemed like a good place to do that.

National Post

Posted in: Canada, Full Comment, Policy, Social Issues  Tags: Afghanistan, Department of National Defence, military, reservists, Roy Green 

_© 2010 National Post Inc. All rights reserved. Unauthorized distribution, transmission or republication strictly prohibited. _ 


Read more: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/12/21/roy-green-an-opportunity-to-honour-reservists/#ixzz18l2QxKzN


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## VIChris (21 Dec 2010)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> There have been objections, one from a member of Canada’s regular military forces who while not challenging the value of the contribution of his citizen military counterparts pointed out he isn’t privy to such a program.



A friend of mine is in the Navy Regs, and is getting more or less a fully sponsored shot at a University degree. Books, tuition etc. covered, and his staff have been very flexible with his shifts in terms of allowing him to attend classes at the local U'. It was described to me as being something all reg force guys could do. Is that not the case?


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## GeorgeD (21 Dec 2010)

I think the writer means this as assisting in the education of Reservists who have served without expectation of service after completion of education. What you are referring to is I believe Subsidized education for Officers and Select NCMs. This requires signing a contract and in many cases no prior service.



From what I understand about this article the author is proposing giving reservists who have done overseas deployments further assistance with their education, and eventually expand it to the CF.


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## Occam (21 Dec 2010)

VIChris said:
			
		

> A friend of mine is in the Navy Regs, and is getting more or less a fully sponsored shot at a University degree. Books, tuition etc. covered, and his staff have been very flexible with his shifts in terms of allowing him to attend classes at the local U'. It was described to me as being something all reg force guys could do. Is that not the case?



Yes, the benefit is there, although not everyone has the opportunity to take advantage of it at any given time for various reasons.  It's called Education Reimbursement for the Regular Force.

The article is referring to the Education Reimbursement for the Primary Reserve program.

Edit:  better link for the Res F ER.


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## The Bread Guy (21 Dec 2010)

GD said:
			
		

> From what I understand about this article the author is proposing giving reservists who have done overseas deployments further assistance with their education, and eventually expand it to the CF.



I'm only reading it to include Reservists, not Regulars.  I think the writer means the Cpl. in question would be a good start before including all reservists.

Great idea, but one of the big objections is going to be $$$$$ (as in, where's it going to come from?).  As money gets tighter in the CF (as in other parts of gov't), and as the memory of the "fighting" war in Afghanistan fades, methinks there'll be less, not more impetus to implement such a plan.

It was a number of years between the first whispers of "hey, maybe Reservists should get some money to defray tuition costs as a 'thanks for the service' " and implementation of same, so I'd suspect this would take a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer time frame, given the bigger financial implications.

If Canada's system of dealing with the war wounded is _still_ being hashed out ~9 years after the wounded started coming, I can't see this being sorted out much quicker, or more easily.


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## brihard (21 Dec 2010)

I like it, in principle.

Resources being scarce, though, let's sort out the issue of ensuring proper treatment for our injured veterans first. They need it more than we do. I came back from tour at least no worse off and no less competitive in the labour market than anyone else, with the added benefit of some stuff that can add substantially to a résumé in the right areas- not to mention the substantial nest egg ammassed simply by *not* buying an expensive tour car or frittering away my pay through other senseless means.

Let's look after the guys who *are* at a clear disadvantage because of their service. Once veterans are being treated properly, perhaps added incentives to the regs and reserves might bear consideration.


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## GeorgeD (21 Dec 2010)

Well it does not have to be for everyone, maybe if you have been overseas, and you show potential eg. high Marks, prior education, exemplary service... make it something like a scholarship where a person that meets the criteria would get fully funded education.


Offering this to 60,000 CF members is unrealistic from a financial point of view, but offering it to the members who have performed well overseas and have the background to be successful in a post secondary education it would be more attainable. Also it might be based on donations/fundraising and negotiations with certain education institutions, which receive alot of business from the Military to assist with lowering tuition so as to make it a more widespread program.


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## Occam (21 Dec 2010)

GD said:
			
		

> Offering this to 60,000 CF members is unrealistic from a financial point of view



You've missed something - this IS offered to the 69,000 CF regular force members.  Only a small percentage actually take advantage of it, but it's available to everyone.  I'm sure if participation went through the roof, the program would be re-evaluated to align with our budget, but that doesn't negate the fact that anyone in the CF reg force can currently participate in it.


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## GeorgeD (21 Dec 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> You've missed something - this IS offered to the 69,000 CF regular force members.  Only a small percentage actually take advantage of it, but it's available to everyone.  I'm sure if participation went through the roof, the program would be re-evaluated to align with our budget, but that doesn't negate the fact that anyone in the CF reg force can currently participate in it.




What kind of program offers this? I thought it was only through Officer and NCMSEP


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## PuckChaser (21 Dec 2010)

I think Occam is referring to this: CF Continuing Education Programme


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## Occam (21 Dec 2010)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I think Occam is referring to this: CF Continuing Education Programme



No, see Reply number 3 in this thread...


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## RHFC_piper (21 Dec 2010)

Well... Somthing like what is being suggested is being offered to Reservists who have been injured overseas.  In the latest incarnation of the Education Reimbursement - Primary Reserve program (or a related program), PRes members taking part in an education upgrade for a back-to-work program due to injuries sustained in Operational Deployement are covered for 100% of the costs outlined in the program details (opposed to the 50% upto $2000)... or so I've been told by my CoC at JPSU / IPSC. 

Unfortunately, from what I understand, this offer is pretty new and is not retroactive... so for troops who have started an education program under ER-Res F before these changes (like me), are stuck in the 50% upto $2000 deal. 

Oh well... At least they're actaully trying to change things.


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## dapaterson (21 Dec 2010)

This speaks to the failure of our pers management systems for deployment:  Constituting the Special Force (NDA definition) for operations would simplify benefits - none of this Reg/Res division.

Alternatively, we could offer short service engagements into the Reg F for deployment - say 15 months to cover 6 months pre-deployment, six months deployed, three months post-deployment leave.  That way, everyone is covered the same way while deployed.

Instead, we punted and fumbled, leading to our current half-assed patchwork.


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## GeorgeD (21 Dec 2010)

Doesn't Class C give the same Coverage as RegForce members receive?


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## dapaterson (22 Dec 2010)

Class C gives the same pay and access to the SDB, but many benefits or other entitlements are written with Reg and Res instructions that may or may not be equivalent (for a variety of reasons).

To ensure the benefits are identical, the only real way to work it is to make the TOS and component the same.  We stood up the Special Force for Korea; we should have done it for Afghanistan as well.


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## Arctic Acorn (22 Dec 2010)

I don't see a need to revemp out current tuition reimursement program for the Reserves. (up to) eight grand for a four year program is a good deal, plus your normal Pay. That's for the low, low cost of not being NES during the school year. If you actually do deploy, you can easily cover the majority of a degree/technical program between your Class C pay and not having income taxes applied. I don't have a lot of sympathy for troops who come back and buy a new car with their tour money and then complain that the system should send them to school as well.  Tours were how I paid for my degree, and I think both the CF and I got our respective money's worth. 

If we're going to expend calories thinking about how to spend money and honour folks, lets look at our wounded reservists. I think Piper hit it on the head. Wounded Reservists can have a hell of a time accessing programs and services (based on a number of horror stories from folks I deployed with from TF 1-07). If they don't meet universality of service so that the CF has to release them, give them access to the regular force SCAN programs. Also, I don't think providing this access retroactively is going to break the bank either.


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## dapaterson (22 Dec 2010)

It's not DND or the CF that sets the rules for reimbursements.  It's the Treasury Board.

Per the national Defence Act



> Treasury Board’s power to make regulations
> 
> (3) The Treasury Board may make regulations
> 
> ...



Thus, any changes require significant work to progress to TB approval.  Using the proper employment framework in the first place avoids the need to do patchwork amendment of policies.


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## Brutus (22 Dec 2010)

0tto Destruct said:
			
		

> I don't see a need to revemp out current tuition reimursement program for the Reserves. (up to) eight grand for a four year program is a good deal, plus your normal Pay.


8 grand will not get you far into your tuition in today's world.




> If you actually do deploy, you can easily cover the majority of a degree/technical program between your Class C pay and not having income taxes applied.



True, but many troops come back to no job, and may have had to pay child support, mortgages, etc. while deployed, so there may not be the pot o' gold that one might expect.

The rest of your post was spot on...


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## Arctic Acorn (22 Dec 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> 8 grand will not get you far into your tuition in today's world.
> 
> 
> True, but many troops come back to no job, and may have had to pay child support, mortgages, etc. while deployed, so there may not be the pot o' gold that one might expect.



I don't expect a pot o' gold. I expect fair compensation for honest work. I know I was able to cover my final semester of school, most of my wife's first semester of community college, and a good chunk of a down payment on a house (Sgts pay, second deployment). All while paying rent and normal expenses at home while away. As a militia guy who did his seven months of unlimited liability (which I volunteered for...I wasn't forced to go) and came back with no issues (not broken, no more crazy than when I left), should have I expected anything more? I don't believe I do. Add that to your tuition reimbursement, and I really don't see the issue, child support or not.

The main effort in my view should be on coming up with _fair_, _realistic_, _accessible_ programs for reserve CF members who are broken on the job. IMHO if you make it back in one piece, existing reimbursements/compensations are fine.


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## aesop081 (24 Dec 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> 8 grand will not get you far into your tuition in today's world.



Its more than what most people i know outside the CF have available to them.

There's fair compensation and recognition and then theres whining and unreasonable.

We are rapidly aproaching that fine line.......


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## Brutus (24 Dec 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Its more than what most people i know outside the CF have available to them.
> 
> There's fair compensation and recognition and then theres whining and unreasonable.
> 
> We are rapidly aproaching that fine line.......



It's the issue of having to leave a fulltime job to go over for me. I'm not screaming for this plan, but it sounds pretty sound to me.


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## aesop081 (24 Dec 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> It's the issue of having to leave a fulltime job to go over for me.



No one is twisting your to deploy.


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## Brutus (24 Dec 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> No one is twisting your to deploy.



And no one's suggesting returning reservists be given a blank cheque upon return either.


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## LineJumper (25 Dec 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Its more than what most people i know outside the CF have available to them.
> 
> There's fair compensation and recognition and then theres whining and unreasonable.
> 
> We are rapidly approaching that fine line.......



 I absolutely agree. Being in a position to grant aboriginal funding to band members, it _must_ be done in such a manner to provide the best return for the organization. A small percentage of members (in both organizations) apply for such funding. If all requests were entertained, a large sum of funds would be expended that _may_ be detrimental to _any_ organization to maintain said program. As long as the organization has some level of return, be it contractual or whatnot, then an abuse of said system is completely minimized. A little help is better than trying to win a competition on some anonymous bursary any day. I personally believe the system in place is more than satisfactory.

 :2c:


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## RHFC_piper (11 Jan 2011)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Well... Something like what is being suggested is being offered to Reservists who have been injured overseas.  In the latest incarnation of the Education Reimbursement - Primary Reserve program (or a related program), PRes members taking part in an education upgrade for a back-to-work program due to injuries sustained in Operational Deployment are covered for 100% of the costs outlined in the program details (opposed to the 50% upto $2000)... or so I've been told by my CoC at JPSU / IPSC.
> 
> Unfortunately, from what I understand, this offer is pretty new and is not retroactive... so for troops who have started an education program under ER-Res F before these changes (like me), are stuck in the 50% upto $2000 deal.
> 
> Oh well... At least they're actually trying to change things.



Just a quick correction to my post; apparently, the 100% sponsorship is only available to regular force members who have been injured.... reservists, injured or otherwise, are only entitled to the 50% up to $2000 per year ($8000 lifetime max).   

I got my hopes up for nothing... again...


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## Teeps74 (11 Jan 2011)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Just a quick correction to my post; apparently, the 100% sponsorship is only available to regular force members who have been injured.... reservists, injured or otherwise, are only entitled to the 50% up to $2000 per year ($8000 lifetime max).
> 
> I got my hopes up for nothing... again...



Glad to hear that reservists are only ever half as injured as a regular force member. What a crock of sh**.


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## RHFC_piper (11 Jan 2011)

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> Glad to hear that reservists are only ever half as injured as a regular force member. What a crock of sh**.



Well... to be fair, the education reimbursement (50% up to $2000 per year) is available to all reservists (pending completion of BMQ and good attendance), injured or not...  so, in reality, there is no program to assist injured reservists.


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## Teeps74 (12 Jan 2011)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Well... to be fair, the education reimbursement (50% up to $2000 per year) is available to all reservists (pending completion of BMQ and good attendance), injured or not...  so, in reality, there is no program to assist injured reservists.



Yarp, this I knew. One would think that the bright lights in Ottawa would be able to surmise that reservists injured were injured as a direct result of Ottawa calling for reservists for deployment wherever. Ergo, there is a duty to provide for those injured soldiers, and that duty is no less then the one owed to injured regular force members.

From what I have seen, there are still many difficulties surrounding PRes member injured on deployment.  Though the situation is certainly better then 20 years ago, it is still a mess.


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## BDTyre (12 Jan 2011)

Brutus said:
			
		

> It's the issue of having to leave a fulltime job to go over for me. I'm not screaming for this plan, but it sounds pretty sound to me.



Most provinces have legislated protection. I believe BC was the last one, and that was put through in 2008. Pro-active employers will have a policy in place that is in-line with the legislation: you will be returned to a similar position; if that is not available you will be put in an initial interim position and effort will be made to gradually return you to your original position. Or something along those lines.

My company's had a policy in effect since 2003, and as far as I know I'm the only one to take advantage of it for deployment. I work full time, and had no issues coming back.


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