# Pakistan, Afghan troops exchange fire at border



## GAP (14 May 2007)

I wonder what the real story behind this is......

Pakistan, Afghan troops exchange fire at border
Updated Sun. May. 13 2007 10:53 PM ET Associated Press
Article Link

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- Pakistani and Afghan forces exchanged fire at their rugged border in their most serious skirmish in years.

Pakistan said it killed five Afghan soldiers in the fighting Sunday but Afghanistan said just two Afghan civilians died.

Tension has been running high between Afghanistan and Pakistan, its eastern neighbour, over controlling the 2,430-kilometre border and stemming the flow of Taliban and al Qaeda militants that stage cross-border attacks inside Afghanistan. Pakistan's move to fence parts of the disputed frontier has also angered Afghanistan.

Pakistan army spokesman Maj.-Gen. Waheed Arshad accused the Afghan army of sparking the two-hour gunbattle with "unprovoked'' fire at about six Pakistani border posts in Kurram Agency, a Pakistani tribal region opposite Afghanistan's Paktia province.

A Pakistan military statement said troops from its Frontier Corps returned fire and five Afghan National Army soldiers were killed. Arshad initially put the toll at six or seven and said three Pakistani troops were wounded.

"This was unprovoked and without any reason,'' Arshad said.

On the Afghan side, Defence Ministry spokesman Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi accused Pakistani forces of encroaching two to three kilometres inside Paktia province's Jajai district.
More on link


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## Bigmac (14 May 2007)

I would bet that the current political unrest and violence in Pakistan is to blame.  This will not help our cause in Afghanistan.



> *Pakistan Burning*
> 
> From correspondents in Delhi, India, 07:12 PM IST
> 
> ...



More on story link below:

http://www.indiaenews.com/politics/20070514/51641.htm


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## Kirkhill (14 May 2007)

Bigmac said:
			
		

> I would bet that the current political unrest and violence in Pakistan is to blame.  This will not help our cause in Afghanistan.



Are you sure?  I think it might keep the ISI busy at home and wondering about their own backs.  It seems like a multi-sided fight shaping up. Chief Justice and Moderates vs Musharraf and Military (all tending towards Reformed Islam if not Secularism) vs ISI and the Ethnic Pashtuns.  Add in the DIS-organized tribals, Al Qaeda and the Chechens together with the prospect of Dostum heading off into Waziristan (with or without permission) and I get the sense that the battle lines might just have been moved a bit further east - away from Pakistani residents ability to influence events in Afghanistan.

Hotels in Quetta might not be as secure as they once were.


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## Bigmac (15 May 2007)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Are you sure?  I think it might keep the ISI busy at home and wondering about their own backs.



     Perhaps you are right Kirkhill. It would appear that some of the Afghanistan crap is now being flung in Pakistan's direction. 



> *Suicide bombing kills 24 at hotel in northwest Pakistan city of Peshawar *
> 
> RIAZ KHAN
> 
> ...


more on link: http://www.recorder.ca/cp/World/070515/w051523A.html


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## Kirkhill (15 May 2007)

> investigators had found the legs of the suspected suicide bomber, with a message taped to one leg that said spies for America would meet this fate.



So ..... was this another willing martyr,  was the bomber "volunteered" for the task or was it a "remotely detonated spy"?   A few mixed messages there.




> Virk said below the message attached the leg was written the word "Khurasan" - a Persian word often used in militant videos to describe Afghanistan.



And there is the third "leg" in the triangle of the Great Game.  For all that Russia and Britain were involved in Afghan politics in the 18th and 19th century they were late comers to the sport.  Persian Iran has been involved since before the time of Alexander the Great.  

Here's one summary of the intra-mural Game played amongst Muslim Persians, Afghans and Indians in the 18th century prior to the involvement of the Brits and the Russians.

http://www.bartleby.com/67/819.html


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## Flip (15 May 2007)

This might be the kind of noise that could flush Osama from his hide.

If he is in Pakistan, how long will he be welcome?

If Musharaff is ousted - then what?

Hmmm


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## Kirkhill (15 May 2007)

Here is the other side of Pakistan - the non-Islamist side.  The western oriented side.

"Islamic parties have never garnered more than 13 percent in any free parliamentary elections in Pakistan"

http://www.benazirbhutto.net/



> A False Choice for Pakistan
> 
> By Benazir Bhutto
> Monday, March 12, 2007; Page A13
> ...


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## Falange (15 May 2007)

A realist scholar would argue that this is a consequence from the longstanding conflictive relations between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pre-Taliban governments since the days of partition wanted to annex the NWFP and the Waziristan provinces to create a homeland for all the Pashtun of Central Asia, and has been since then that Islamabad has sought ways to debilitate Kabul or control it through proxy governments. However taking into consideration P. Musharraf policies of devolution towards the Waziri and NWFP Pashto, and the current contentious situation regarding Pakistani politics I would say that the engagement was rather the product of miscommunication between both Afghan and Pakistani troops. I do not think that it is on Islamabad's interest to start a political conflict with Kabul, because as it was mentioned before it has enough to deal with in its own borders and that includes the present borderline of Balochistan, NWFP and Waziristan. Maybe, there has to be further communication and transparency by part of the Pakistani forces. It would not hurt if NATO and Kabul knew what are they up to on the other side in order to cooperate. I think all the cooperation we can get from Pakistan is key to help neutralize the Taleban.

Regarding Benazir Bhutto and the PPP... they have a terrible record regarding the sub-national groups (Pashtun and Baluchis). It was during her father's rule when these groups became reactive, Zia armed them, and Benazir just looked the other way as the Taliban was marching further north. Democracy would definetly help Pakistan... but this cannot be done just like that, especially with all the Mullahs just looking out for ways to extent their tentacles into the government.


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## Bigmac (16 May 2007)

Things are certainly boiling over between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Maybe we should let the ANA take care of business??! Let them fight it out with Pakistan border patrol and they can make a jam sandwich out of the Taliban and Al Quada who get caught in the middle!



> *Angry Afghans protest at Pakistan Embassy against border skirmishes *
> 
> AMIR SHAH
> 
> ...


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## Bigmac (16 May 2007)

Link for remainder of story on my last post:

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/World/070516/w051611A.html


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## geo (16 May 2007)

Bigmac said:
			
		

> Things are certainly boiling over between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Maybe we should let the ANA take care of business??! Let them fight it out with Pakistan border patrol and they can make a jam sandwich out of the Taliban and Al Quada who get caught in the middle!



This would be a great ruse to get AQ and TB insurgents to come out of hiding to fight alongside their Pakistani brothers...... only for them to be "squashed" by both the Pakistani and Afghan forces   (and so... all was well in the world)

But, this isn't a Disney movie..... or is it?


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## Bigmac (16 May 2007)

This is going to be interesting. It is like removing a hornets nest from inside your house; if you smash it how many hornets are inside and are you prepared to get stung? Maybe this tactic will flush out the Taliban, Al Quada and drug smugglers from these refugee camps but at what cost?? 
        What do you do with 10,000 displaced families? Do you send them back to Afghanistan to nothing or to another already overcrowded refugee camp in Pakistan where they will not be welcome and still have nothing. This is only going to fuel the resistance fire and Pakistan is about to add magnesium.
         Is there a better solution??



> *Clashes at Pakistan refugee camp *
> 
> At least three Afghan refugees have been killed after clashes between Pakistani security forces and refugees in south-western Pakistan, police say.
> Both sides say the other started the violence in Pir Alizai camp after officials tried to demolish homes.
> ...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6662367.stm


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