# Homegrown Violent Extremists ( HVEs ) and Civilian Targets



## mariomike (3 Oct 2016)

31 August 2016

Seventy-seven percent of the thirteen HVE attacks and disruptions during the
past twelve months focused on civilian targets, in contrast to eleven percent of the eighteen
HVE attacks and disruptions in the first seven months of 2015.

Three HVE plots in 2016 targeted houses of worship, the first such cases since
a 2009 plot against a New York-based synagogue. In addition,
since the beginning of 2015, HVEs have plotted against or attacked restaurants, a nightclub, a
concert, a public ceremony, a place of employment, and a college classroom, demonstrating
the variety of targeting choices.
https://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FBI-NCTC-CivilianTargetsHVEs.pdf

In response,

October 2, 2016 

'Rescue Task Force" program sends unarmed Firefighters and Paramedics into ‘active shooter’ situations.'
http://nypost.com/2016/10/02/city-program-sends-unarmed-firefighters-and-emts-into-active-shooter-situations/

The news report says some have dubbed it, “the sitting ducks squad.”


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## brihard (3 Oct 2016)

Bunch of bloody whiners. I'm sure an all-volunteer approach would get more than enough people.


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## mariomike (3 Oct 2016)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Bunch of bloody whiners. I'm sure an all-volunteer approach would get more than enough people.



It's not voluntary. FDNY Paramedics received their Order on November 16, 2015.

Toronto Paramedics received the same on June 15, 2016.

343 FDNY Firefighters and Paramedics went up the stairs in the World Trade Centre on 9/11 and never came out alive. As far as I know, none refused to go up.


Soon enough your Grandmother will need 2 forms of ID to buy a pressure cooker in order to can peaches.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-declare-clear-pressure-cooker-bomb-scare-bronx-article-1.2816166?utm_content=buffer3d1be&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw


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## AbdullahD (3 Oct 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> _*343 FDNY Firefighters and Paramedics went up the stairs in the World Trade Centre on 9/11 and never came out alive. As far as I know, none refused to go up.*_



They are all heroes, God bless them all.

I hope the government starts supplying first responders with the tools needed to stay safe.


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## Journeyman (4 Oct 2016)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> > 343 FDNY Firefighters and Paramedics went up the stairs in the World Trade Centre on 9/11 and never came out alive.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the government starts supplying first responders with the tools needed to stay safe.



What "tools" would have helped them that day?


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## AbdullahD (4 Oct 2016)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I hope the government starts supplying first responders with the tools needed to stay safe.
> 
> What "tools" would have helped them that day?



The tools of not misquoting people, could be a good start. Two completely different statements.

 But if you think all first responders should be sacrificed because the few could not go home, thats your call. Id rather see them as prepared as possible.


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## Journeyman (4 Oct 2016)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> But if you think all first responders should be sacrificed because the few could not go home, thats your call. Id rather see them as prepared as possible.


Not remotely.  

While two separate statements, you tied 9/11 first responders to the implication that "the government" was somehow denying them with "the tools needed to stay safe."

Perhaps posting a reasoned response would avoid relying upon, "you know what I meant."


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## AbdullahD (4 Oct 2016)

This thread, as far as I understood, was about first responders in very sketchy situations and being potentially under prepared.

My first comment was to respect and honor the fallen. The second was a wish that dealt with the subject matter of the thread.

I figured it was plain as day.


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## Loachman (4 Oct 2016)

It was to me.


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## Lightguns (4 Oct 2016)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I hope the government starts supplying first responders with the tools needed to stay safe.
> 
> What "tools" would have helped them that day?



Obvious answer would have been a communications system that functioned high rises for a start.  One would think that a fire department like NY would have a communication systems that functioned in high rise buildings.  I understand they have something now.


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## Cloud Cover (4 Oct 2016)

A significant amount of work has gone into building satellite uplinks, separate cellular networks, hardened devices, software, etc for first responders and government use in communications congested areas, particularly to allow wireless high speed data. UAV are also built with the specific purpose of acting as relay platforms for various communications technologies. While none of this is a completely resilient system, it is far better than what once existed however the cost is enormous and locations are situated in large metropolitan areas.  It would be very difficult for for HVE to disable these networks, and civilian congestion would not be a factor as it was on 911. 

On 911, the only shared government-civilian network that was reliably functioning within proximity of Manhattan and Long Island in general, was the (what was then) the dedicated DataTAC and Mobitext data networks operated by RAM exclusively for RIM (now BlackBerry). This network did not fail, but the devices in existence at that time were basically not much more than interactive pagers (PIN Messaging and Email), but had no voice capability, the smartphone having not yet been invented. FDNY and NYPD, along with the city of New York, had no more than a few dozen of these devices each, some of which suddenly ceased to function at around 930AM EST on September 11. 
The battery on these devices, BTW, lasted about 3 weeks in continuous use.

Cheers


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## mariomike (4 Oct 2016)

Regarding the news article in the Original Post.

Nobody said anything about refusing a call.

What was left unspoken by those interviewed however, is the issue of financial compensation.

Our ETF Paramedics receive a $1,000.00 annual premium. It is included in their pensionable earnings. There are so few of them, it's a drop in the financial bucket for the City.

June 15, 2016: "Where Tactical Paramedics are not available, non-tactical Paramedics may be assigned to ETF incidents."

Anyone familiar with the number of ETF Paramedics in this city, and their targeted response times, understands what that means.

I expect Paramedic Bloggins will expect the same compensation in the next contract, or take it to arbitration. 

It's a job. It is not a spiritual vocation. 



			
				AbdullahD said:
			
		

> I figured it was plain as day.





			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> It was to me.



Me too.


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