# Kifaru Tailgunner as Buttpack Replacement



## Matt_Fisher (17 Nov 2004)

There has been quite a bit of discussion regarding the lack of space on the new tac-vest to store kit and the loss of the buttpack.

Kifaru has come out with a line of lumbar packs that are designed to be worn with chest rigs, tac-vests and body armor to take the place of the buttpack:

Kifaru Tailgunner Series
http://www.kifaru.net/MG_TGhome.htm

Kifaru makes some of the most ergonomically, functional and rock-solid constructed kit out there, just ask KevinB who's got their EMR pack.
Kifaru will custom make them in cadpat IF you send them the material (as they do not have access to it commercially   )

Additional pics of the Tailgunners:
http://www.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000594

Additional discussion on the Tailgunners:
http://www.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000603


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## rw4th (18 Nov 2004)

Kifaru does make some kickass stuff;   I've got my eye on a Zulu for next year 

I beleive the belt also had PALS attachements on it, making it possible to pouches to like you would with webbing. I wonder how this thing would interact with body armour on?

Also, looking at it, I think the Tailgunner might make a perfect smallpack for a medic.

I think this setup might prove promissing:


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## Infanteer (18 Nov 2004)

Tres chic....


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## Matt_Fisher (18 Nov 2004)

rw4th said:
			
		

> I beleive the belt also had PALS attachements on it, making it possible to pouches to like you would with webbing. I wonder how this thing would interact with body armour on?



Some people have discussed the possibility of using Kifaru's Omni belt as a replacement for the standard web belt and putting the pouches directly on it.   I think that WITHOUT body armor, this would probably be a pretty decent setup.   When you're wearing an armored vest, the belt is best worn under the vest, next to the body, rather than attaching the belt over the armor.  The pouches mounted on the front and sides of the Omni belt would cause significant interference with the vest if you tried to wear the belt next to the body.

However, I ask, why would you want a rig that works best under armor?   Armor's a fact of life these days.   We need to adapt and develop our equipment to work efficiently and effectively given the requirement to armor troops from bullets and shrapnel.


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## pappy (28 Nov 2004)

Anyone here using any Kifaru items?  Matt?  

I've visited thier site a few times and all thier gear looks awsome. Just wondering in they are as nice in auctual use as well as in advertizing.

http://www.kifaru.net/MGptman.htm

I'm thinking one of these for hunting season next year.


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## pappy (28 Nov 2004)

http://www.kifaru.net/MGe&e.htm

What about this E&E bag for a replacement as a buttpack?  I think this E&E bag idea, nice concept; I can see some advantages here.  Looks like the same capacity as the Tailgunner II, 1000cu in.  But I gotta admit the tailgunner makes it easy to get to your gear.  A great Corpsman bag.....


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## NATO Boy (29 Nov 2004)

What about http://www.tigertactical.com/products/backpacks/tactical butt pack/tactical butt pack.htm?

While the MOLLE might not mount correctly on the Tac Vest, it's the right size for replacing the 82 pattern "ass-pack."


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## Matt_Fisher (29 Nov 2004)

The thing that appeals to me most about the Tailgunner is the ability to access the contents without having to remove your entire load-bearing rig like you do with a buttpack that's attached to your webbing or vest.

Also, when you're doing mounted (either in vehicle or helo) you don't have the problem of the buttpack pressing against the small of your back and causing an awkward seating position.  You can loosen off the main belt and flip the tailgunner around to your front

Pappy,

I don't own any Kifaru...yet.  Ask me again after I open the EMR sized christmas present from my wife   
However I did have the chance to play with an EMR, Scout and Pointman in California back in 2002.  Very nice stuff.

I've heard alot of good things about the E&E, with the only negative is that it lacks a sternum strap.
Personally, I'm more drawn to the Tailgunner, as it puts the weight on my hips rather than my shoulders, which is what the E&E does.  My shoulders are already taking a beating with my IBA vest (with SAPI plates), LBV and Camelbak riding on them.  I don't want to add any more weight if I can help it.  The other thing that really appeals to me about the Tailgunner is that it is a very stable rig and will not cause problems coming off-balance when I'm doing stuff like climbing over walls and through windows in MOUT and it will not slide up the back of my neck and head when I'm in the prone.


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## NATO Boy (30 Nov 2004)

After thinking about it, the Tailgunner is a much better idea (especially when mounted or constantly accessing gear that can't be put in your vest.) I guess the CADPAT Slut side of me took over again (argh.)


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## Infanteer (1 Dec 2004)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> I don't own any Kifaru...yet. Ask me again after I open the EMR sized christmas present from my wife



You are a lucky man....

The Kifaru stuff has me holding my VISA card in hand, just needing to type the final few digits.  However, I really wish they could get ahold of some CADPAT, I'm not to keen on making a BIG investment on something that will draw attention (if its CADPAT, it looks like the issue ruck that their designing).


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## westie47 (1 Dec 2004)

If you send them cadpat material they will make it for you. If you want to know where to get it, pm me.


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## KevinB (1 Dec 2004)

Kifaru rocks - outstanding gear.

 Pappy the guys who use 'your' vest think pretty highly of Kifaru too...


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## Matt_Fisher (1 Dec 2004)

Infanteer,

I agree that it's a HUGE investment to make and there may be the prospect in the near future that "If it's not Cadpat, it's not worn..."   :
It would be a shame that such a philosophy woule make your Kifaru useless for military purposes.  However you could always use Cadpat ruck cover that Wheeler's makes, or jury-rig your individual Cadpat camouflage screen to work as a ruck cover.  I think that it's going to quite some time (3-5 years) before the Cadpat CTS ruck is in the system in any numbers and OD will always be around in some gear form or another, so you shouldn't have too many problems using an OD Kifaru, unless you belong to a really strict unit (ie. RCR/RRC, etc.) or are going on course, where you'd have to use the issue ruck.

With that said, a Cadpat Kifaru would be a sexy beast.  Too bad that licenses are only granted to Canadian companies and Kifaru refuses to work through a dealer network that could get them Cadpat (ie. Dave's Surplus).

Now, with that said, if enough Canadians were serious about getting Cadpat Kifaru's they could probably arrange something through Dave's Surplus, where Dave did a group buy of Kifaru's and supplied the Cadpat Cordura for the construction.  Dave would then charge the buyer for the ruck, Cadpat Cordura, plus a fee for doing the legwork/processing.  It would definitely be more expensive than purchasing an OD pack from Kifaru directly, but at least you'd have a Cadpat bag to appease the kit nazis.

Kevin,

Mel at Kifaru had told me that DND had ordered a sizable number of EMRs.  I was thinking it was for CTS evaluation purposes, but your comments make alot more sense as to "who" actually made the purchase.


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## KevinB (1 Dec 2004)

Matt,

I got to try a buddies EMR in Ottawa - which was what really sold me on it (he had a lot of kit in it and it was still comfy.

Our new CO (1VP: LCol Hope) has an if it works use it theory (as long as it is not pink) so my RAV and EMR are gtg (both Coyote).  I did make a cover for the EMR out of the three scrim nets (CADPAT TW and AR, and the Winter one), but it is annoyign as it stops me from usign the pockets and pouches easily - so I am saving them incase we get a CO and RSM with less insight.


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## pappy (1 Dec 2004)

"those" guys get all the gucci kit....  
"they" are using some new sleeping bags too from what I hear, the ones made by Integral Designs.
I believe its the Permaloft North Twin and the Renaissance.  In OD Green no less...

As far as credit cards at the ready and Kifaru's website on the screen, been there, just waiting.... But I think I'm done waiting...

Matt, as far as the E&E bag I was thinking something in the way of thier "dock & lock" system added to a Tactical Vest or like item.
But yes I agree the Tailguner looks best with the instant access to the contents....   I think there may be one under my X-mas tree this year.

They are doing "Multicam" now, not quite CADPAT (AR) but ...


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## Matt_Fisher (2 Dec 2004)

Pappy,

I've seen pictures of the E&E mounted on a vest on www.militarymorons.com
It looks like a very solid setup and the pouch is easily taken off and remounted to the ruck, however, I don't want to have to take off the vest everytime I want to access the contents.

I agree with you on the Multicam.  Tres chic.  I was given a Multicam wallet by the Eagle Rep. at the AUSA show in Washington DC back in Oct.  It's amazing to see how they've managed to blend the color scheme.  My only concern is that when exposed to UV rays for a long period, the multicam's shading patterns would fade quite badly and the overall pattern would lighten considerably.

Time will tell as to how well Multicam works.  From what I've seen so far, I like it and think that it would be a very effective pattern in arid/scrub regions and would work very well in places like Sub-Saharan Africa, Iraq and Afghanistan.  I don't know how well it would perform in tropical rainforest jungle like Columbia though?


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