# Unveiling of New CANSOFCOM Dress Uniform



## dangerboy (6 Jun 2017)

At CANSEC Logistic Unicorp showed of the new dress uniform for CANSOFCOM: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/06/05/new-cansof-dress-uniform/


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## Lightguns (6 Jun 2017)

Good Lord!!!!  This has gone too far.......  A completely different uniform from the rest of the military........

This God awful thing even has buttons on the bottom flap pockets.  Bet they have their own regimental buttons as well.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Jun 2017)

OK, now I'm breaking into cranky old fart mode.  If many special forces units around the world (esp. in the Commonwealth) seem to be OK with wearing the same dress uniform as the rest of the militiary, is this really necessary?  #MoreButtonsAndBowsInsteadOfOperationalStuff?


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## Humphrey Bogart (6 Jun 2017)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Good Lord!!!!  This has gone too far.......  A completely different uniform from the rest of the military........



Well they aren't part of the Army and their members aren't career managed by the Army anymore so of course they need a new uniform  ;D

I wonder if the officers will need two different uniforms or will they just rock these all the time?

I'm going to go out on a limb when I say that we've got one of weirdest militaries in the Western World.  By weird, what I mean is we are G7 country but we've got an Armed Forces that does things I'd expect from a Banana Republic.


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## Lightguns (6 Jun 2017)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Well they aren't part of the Army and their members aren't career managed by the Army anymore so of course they need a new uniform  ;D
> 
> I wonder if the officers will need two different uniforms or will they just rock these all the time?
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb when I say that we've got one of weirdest militaries in the Western World.  By weird, what I mean is we are G7 country but we've got an Armed Forces that does things I'd expect from a Banana Republic.



Let's go whole hog banana republic:

"Canadian Special Operations Force Regiment( Pierre Trudeau's Own)"


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## PuckChaser (6 Jun 2017)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> #MoreButtonsAndBowsInsteadOfOperationalStuff?



I may be wrong, but I highly doubt CANSOF pers are short operational stuff that this is taking priority over...


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## Humphrey Bogart (6 Jun 2017)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Let's go whole hog banana republic:
> 
> "Canadian Special Operations Force Regiment( Pierre Trudeau's Own)"



They should have harnessed their inner Don Cherry and made the tunic multicam pattern  ;D

He would definitely chirp them for wearing ballistic eyewear though, we all know visors are for panzies and only frenchies and euros wear them!







Continuing on the topic of Banana Republics I'd like to take your renaming of the Regiment a step further by rechristening their first Direct Action Company as "Sunny Side Up Company".

I've even taken the time to create a new logo for them which they can have velcroed (because sewing is so not cool) on their new multicam tunics:






DG H&A has issued a decree that this sub-unit will now go by c/s YOLK over the radio.


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Jun 2017)

Another critical "Dress uniform gap with Banana dictorships/Crazy Koreans" filled!


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## Loachman (6 Jun 2017)

When will the other functional commands get their own dress uniforms, and what will they look like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47xusWONoAc


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## The Bread Guy (6 Jun 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I may be wrong, but I highly doubt CANSOF pers are short operational stuff that this is taking priority over...


I would agree, but speaking as a taxpayer, what gets spent on the new zoot-suits doesn't get spent elsewhere, even outside CANSOFCOM.


			
				Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> ... I wonder if the officers will need two different uniforms or will they just rock these all the time? ...


I hear any switch of jackets will be cost neutral, so no worries ...


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## Cloud Cover (6 Jun 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> When will the other functional commands get their own dress uniforms, and what will they look like?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47xusWONoAc



I love the skull belt buckle. Nice touch, might be a good choice for our finance or maybe JAG branches? (the "pointy end"  .... of the red pencil)


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## daftandbarmy (6 Jun 2017)

Is it ironic that our Special Forces will now visibly stand out from the rest of the CF a mile away? Just wondering....


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## Mick (6 Jun 2017)

4 buttons down the front?  Better make it 5...

Looks ridiculous.


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## Haggis (6 Jun 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> When will the other functional commands get their own dress uniforms, and what will they look like?



Are the DEU worn now by the RCAF, CA and RCN not distinctive enough?  They are, of course, manufactured by the same supplier who now provided CANSOFCOM uniforms, so they _must _be awesome.

See what just happened there?  Instead of whining about our curent DEU, I just upped it's stature to that of the CANSOF DEU.   [


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## Kat Stevens (6 Jun 2017)

Oh my, that's one sexy rig, almost makes me want to re-up...he said, almost maintaining a straight face. Very US Army circa 1943 ish.  :-X  :boke:


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## Lightguns (6 Jun 2017)

Wait til it is decorated with a red arrow and a SF tab and a Ranger tab and 4 different jump wings and 3 rows of fruit salad on the chest.  You all are gonna want one..........


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## The Bread Guy (6 Jun 2017)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> ... Very US Army circa 1943 ish.  :-X  :boke:


_*Zackly*_ what they're trying to channel ...


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## Privateer (6 Jun 2017)

Would this be worn by all CANSOFCOM personnel, or just "army" personnel and not "navy" and "air force"?


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## Kat Stevens (6 Jun 2017)

Maybe I can make a few bucks cranking out those monkey braid lanyards, tactical macrame is one is one of my hobbies  8)


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## dimsum (6 Jun 2017)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Oh my, that's one sexy rig, almost makes me want to re-up...he said, almost maintaining a straight face. Very US Army circa 1943 ish.  :-X  :boke:



Well, if CANSOF can go back (some more) in time...


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## jollyjacktar (6 Jun 2017)

Yup, that's the uniform LOGISTIK had on display last year at CANSEC and what I mentioned then.


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## PuckChaser (6 Jun 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

>



How in God's name would people know you're in the airforce if the uniform isn't blue?!


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## Haggis (6 Jun 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> How in God's name would people know you're in the airforce if the uniform isn't blue?!



Don't worry - if there's a fighter pilot around, he'll tell you.


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## Loachman (6 Jun 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> How in God's name would people know you're in the airforce if the uniform isn't blue?!



That guy isn't a** f**ce.

I'll resurrect that uniform for the Canadian Army Air Corps when I become God-Emperor.

But so _not_ with a wedge.


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## McG (6 Jun 2017)

Privateer said:
			
		

> Would this be worn by all CANSOFCOM personnel, or just "army" personnel and not "navy" and "air force"?


I imagine it will be worn by (and so specifically identify) those personnel in occupations unique to CANSOFCOM.  Alternately, they will set the precedent that RCN, CA and RCAF will follow by insisting personnel change DEU on posting into (or out of) the command.

… so, either an enduring re-occurring waste of money or “I can’t be in the hatless course photo because my identity is a national secret, but I can wear my resume in public and on an OC Transpo bus.”

Edit: spelling


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## daftandbarmy (6 Jun 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> How in God's name would people know you're in the airforce if the uniform isn't blue?!



Simple: because he is wearing Air Force gloves


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## Loachman (6 Jun 2017)

Those are Army gloves.

He's Royal Flying Corps.


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## garb811 (6 Jun 2017)

Surprised nobody has keyed in on rank insignia.

Can't wear the CA DEU because it is controlled by the CA, hence can't wear CA rank because it is controlled by the CA as well.
Can't wear the RCAF DEU because it is controlled by the RCAF, hence can't wear the RCAF rank because it is controlled by the RCAF as well.
Can't wear the RCN DEU because it is controlled by the RCN, hence can't wear the RCN rank because it is controlled by the CA as well.

Logical conclusion:  CANSOFCOM specific rank (and by extension the rest of the buttons and bows including trade insignia) are in the offing as well...


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## dimsum (6 Jun 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> Surprised nobody has keyed in on rank insignia.
> 
> Can't wear the CA DEU because it is controlled by the CA, hence can't wear CA rank because it is controlled by the CA as well.
> Can't wear the RCAF DEU because it is controlled by the RCAF, hence can't wear the RCAF rank because it is controlled by the RCAF as well.
> ...



Ha!  I propose "pixellated squares and daggers".


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## PuckChaser (6 Jun 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Ha!  I propose "pixellated squares and daggers".



The rank is black on a black slip on. You don't see the rank, because much like the person, you'll never see them coming.  ;D


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## dimsum (6 Jun 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The rank is black on a black slip on. You don't see the rank, because much like the person, you'll never see them coming.  ;D


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Jun 2017)

I sure hope the metal rod in the picture is *optional wear*.   

If not, that explains the facial expression.   ^-^


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## daftandbarmy (6 Jun 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I sure hope the metal rod in the picture is *optional wear*.
> 
> If not, that explains the facial expression.   ^-^



Well spotted.... but then again, that's your job isn't it?


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## Old EO Tech (6 Jun 2017)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Are the DEU worn now by the RCAF, CA and RCN not distinctive enough?  They are, of course, manufactured by the same supplier who now provided CANSOFCOM uniforms, so they _must _be awesome.
> 
> See what just happened there?  Instead of whining about our curent DEU, I just upped it's stature to that of the CANSOF DEU.   [



Well I'm not sure what the RCN and RCAF think about there uniforms, but the current CA DEU looks like a business suit with badges....And I would certainly welcome a uniform that makes us actually look like soldiers, not a green bag designed by a rotund CDS at unification :-/

Hell even bringing back the Tan uniform of the 90's would be better than what we have now..

Jon


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## RocketRichard (6 Jun 2017)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Well I'm not sure what the RCN and RCAF think about there uniforms, but the current CA DEU looks like a business suit with badges....And I would certainly welcome a uniform that makes us actually look like soldiers, not a green bag designed by a rotund CDS at unification :-/
> 
> Hell even bringing back the Tan uniform of the 90's would be better than what we have now..
> 
> Jon


Hear, hear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dimsum (7 Jun 2017)

Is it just me (or my computer) or do the colours in that picture look off?  The tan beret (for comparison) looks really dark.


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## Lightguns (7 Jun 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> I imagine it will be worn by (and so specifically identify) those personnel in occupations unique to CANSOFCOM.  Alternately, they will set the precedent that RCN, CA and RCAF will follow by insisting personnel change DEU on posting into (or out of) the command.
> 
> … so, either an enduring re-occurring waste of money or “I can’t be in the hatless course photo because my identity is a national secret, but I can wear my resume in public and on an OC Transpo bus.”
> 
> Edit: spelling



There is definitely that.  I suppose they will have their own regimental hat badge to go with their regimental command badge.......  Nothing says Special Forces like a unique uniform AND unique hat badge AND unique command badge.


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## Humphrey Bogart (7 Jun 2017)

While I made a couple of jokes already in this thread, I'm actually in the who cares crowd.  

We spend millions of dollars on random pet projects all the time so I suppose SOF should have their cake as well.  

A few thousand uniforms is really a drop in the bucket as far as costs go.  I remember when RMC brought back the College Uniform 10 years ago and there was a huge amount of moaning and groaning.  At the end of the day the cost was only around $1 million dollars which is penny change.  

The irony is we are repeating the same mistakes with CSOR that we made with the Airborne Regiment.


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## Lightguns (7 Jun 2017)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> While I made a couple of jokes already in this thread, I'm actually in the who cares crowd.
> 
> We spend millions of dollars on random pet projects all the time so I suppose SOF should have their cake as well.
> 
> ...



Not quite.  The CAR was given elite status but populated with a lot of dregs of the leg units and almost never used.  There is a much higher standard to getting in the CSOR and they are a much more disciplined and experienced unit.  Everyone I knew who went to the CAR was given a jump course to get them out of the unit because they were problem cases.  The CAR was best known for breaking up transient quarters on air forces bases when they got drunk.


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## Humphrey Bogart (7 Jun 2017)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Not quite.  The CAR was given elite status but populated with a lot of dregs of the leg units and almost never used.  There is a much higher standard to getting in the CSOR and they are a much more disciplined and experienced unit.  Everyone I knew who went to the CAR was given a jump course to get them out of the unit because they were problem cases.  The CAR was best known for breaking up transient quarters on air forces bases when they got drunk.



You're are right ref selection; however, I'm referring to thw cultural aspects that the CAF is again perpetuating.  It's better that SOF remain quiet as we are probably one major incident away from another Somalia Inquiry.


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## Lightguns (7 Jun 2017)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> You're are right ref selection; however, I'm referring to thw cultural aspects that the CAF is again perpetuating.  It's better that SOF remain quiet as we are probably one major incident away from another Somalia Inquiry.



Concur, the khaki hat was more than sufficient recognition but these guys have the ear of bean counters.


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## daftandbarmy (7 Jun 2017)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Concur, the khaki hat was more than sufficient recognition but these guys have the ear of bean counters.



"If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering somebody else's dog around." Mark Twain 

 [


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## ueo (13 Jun 2017)

Un f***ing real! (Sorry for the harsh terms, but...). New hardware purchases snafued, recruiting snarled and choked, attrition at an all time high (for many undiscussed reasons) and the tall foreheads in OW want/have more buttons and bows. Reality check please!


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## Calvillo (18 Jun 2017)

Maybe this is meant to be regimental Full Dress or Undress for CSOR? It is a regiment after all...


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## Good2Golf (18 Jun 2017)

ueo said:
			
		

> Un f***ing real! (Sorry for the harsh terms, but...). New hardware purchases snafued, recruiting snarled and choked, attrition at an all time high (for many undiscussed reasons) and the tall foreheads in OW want/have more buttons and bows. Reality check please!



You're using the same logic to pick at a minor portion of the overhead of an organizational sub-component (CANSOF's clothing budget within DND's budget [ <1/75,000th]) as The Rideau Institute/Ceasefire.ca inappropriately uses to posit that DND's budget within the GoC's budget is the only place where inefficacy/inappropriateness happens.  Frankly, in both cases, DND's budget and the GoC's budget writ large, there are a lot more places where far more money proportionately is not used wisely.  

The three items you link through attribution as being caused by CANSOF's assaulter/operator dress uniform (procurement, recruiting and attrition) will not be solved by halting the revision of a few hundred dress uniforms.

:2c:

Regards
G2G


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## George Wallace (18 Jun 2017)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Let's go whole hog banana republic:
> 
> "Canadian Special Operations Force Regiment( Pierre Trudeau's Own)"



I would shorten that to "Canadian Special Operations Force Regiment ( Pierre Elliott Trudeau's)" or "CSOFR (PET)"


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## George Wallace (18 Jun 2017)

I think one of the magic words in this whole discussion is "LOGISTIK".

At a recent Mess Dinner, people were wearing BLUES, ordered on points through LOGISTIK.  As LOGISTIK also supplies the UK Forces, and who knows how many others, the sale of different varieties of uniforms is only more business for them.


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## jollyjacktar (27 Sep 2017)

I just came off the departure parade for the GG.  The flag party was manned by CANSOF troops in their new uniform.  I have to say, the uniform is very striking and tasteful.  Honestly several cuts above the CF Greens the rest of the Army wear.  The concept display l saw last year didn't do this final one justice.


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I just came off the departure parade for the GG.  The flag party was manned by CANSOF troops in their new uniform.  I have to say, the uniform is very striking and tasteful.  Honestly several cuts above the CF Greens the rest of the Army wear.  The concept display l saw last year didn't do this final one justice.



Even from the sole picture I was able to find, I have to agree.  All jokes and shots about our love of buttons and bows in recent years aside, the folks in CANSOF do a difficult and dangerous job;  I've no qualms with them wearing a uniform that 'stands out' and sets them apart of the other 3 DEUs.  

http://www.gg.ca/gallery.aspx?id=11729


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Sep 2017)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think one of the magic words in this whole discussion is "LOGISTIK".
> 
> At a recent Mess Dinner, people were wearing BLUES, ordered on points through LOGISTIK.  As LOGISTIK also supplies the UK Forces, and who knows how many others, the sale of different varieties of uniforms is only more business for them.



Blues as in mess kit??  I had to pay for mine (mess kit) but I think the RCAF musicians get a quasi-mess kit for formal events.  That's a guess, the picture that made me think that is at this link, Pic 3 of 7.

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/rcaf-band/index.page

the material colour seems lighter than the *old style* mess kit, its more like the 'new style' RCAF mess kit but the buttons and pants are different.


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## Good2Golf (28 Sep 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Blues as in mess kit??  I had to pay for mine (mess kit) but I think the RCAF musicians get a quasi-mess kit for formal events.  That's a guess, the picture that made me think that is at this link, Pic 3 of 7.
> 
> http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/rcaf-band/index.page
> 
> the material colour seems lighter than the *old style* mess kit, its more like the 'new style' RCAF mess kit but the buttons and pants are different.



Blues = Patrol Dress = black-tie equivalent at least for armoured and sigs,I believe:


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## Eaglelord17 (28 Sep 2017)

Likely another thing that will help with the appearance of the uniform is the fact they are in better shape than most the CF.


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## jollyjacktar (28 Sep 2017)

They even made their multicam look like a $1M too because of that fact.


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Sep 2017)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Blues = Patrol Dress = black-tie equivalent at least for armoured and sigs,I believe:



Oh right.  Not all black hat units do the Patrols, so I never thought of that.


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> They even made their multicam look like a $1M too because of that fact.



Sounds like someone might have a crush!   :-*

 ;D


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## jollyjacktar (28 Sep 2017)

:rofl:  just jealous.  I wish l looked like $20...


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## George Wallace (28 Sep 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Oh right.  Not all black hat units do the Patrols, so I never thought of that.



Actually, ALL the Army did Patrols in the day.  It was "Walking Out Dress" in the Mess and also often worn by the Duty Officer.

Some Reserve Units have been using it for years as Mess Kit.

I have a friend who, in the past couple of years, has used his 'points' to order it through Logistik, for Mess Dinner and other Mess functions.  

Looks like it is making a comeback.


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Sep 2017)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Actually, ALL the Army did Patrols in the day.  It was "Walking Out Dress" in the Mess and also often worn by the Duty Officer.



That must have been before _my_ day...I'm still a young pup!!   :nod:


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## George Wallace (28 Sep 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> That must have been before _my_ day...I'm still a young pup!!   :nod:



It was.

[Sorry for my redundant post above.  Went back to catch up and saw that you had replied to that same info.]


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## dimsum (28 Sep 2017)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Blues = Patrol Dress = black-tie equivalent at least for armoured and sigs,I believe:



Is no one else going to wonder about the story behind how an Army Captain has Navigator wings?  

Is this a secret plot for the RCAF to float the test balloon for Blues of the Patrol kind?

 >


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## George Wallace (28 Sep 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Is no one else going to wonder about the story behind how an Army Captain has Navigator wings?
> 
> Is this a secret plot for the RCAF to float the test balloon for Blues of the Patrol kind?
> 
> >



As Bob is in the room, I doubt it is a secret plot of any kind.   [

With the age of the Corps of Signals collar dogs on the tunic, I could suspect that it may have been a former RCAF officer who joined the Army.


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## dimsum (29 Sep 2017)

To drag this thread back to relevant topic, here is another picture of the new uniform from the parade.

So will the CANSOF folks still keep their former regimental cap and collar badges then?


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## jollyjacktar (29 Sep 2017)

No.  They have a new cap badge/collar dogs and are wearing it in this photo.  The CDS made mention of their new uniforms in his address at the reception following the parade.  He said they no longer belong to the Army,  Navy or Air Force but their own thing, CANSOF.  And that people weren't seeing things or colour blind as they were wearing their new uniform.  Must have been a first.  They also wore the red arrowhead device (sans USA/CANADA) shoulder flash from the 1SSF.  (also very nice looking)


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## McG (29 Sep 2017)

So, is it only members who OT into either of the two NCM occupations who now wear this new uniform?


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## MilEME09 (29 Sep 2017)

I actually love the look of their new uniform, especially the bloused parade boots, I think it looks a hell of a lot sharper


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## Good2Golf (29 Sep 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> So, is it only members who OT into either of the two NCM occupations who now wear this new uniform?



Only ever seen a "dinner plate" or "arrowhead" on the left pocket, so it seems this (assaulter or operator) may be the case....or Officers so-qualified, like the Comd.

Regards
G2G


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## Journeyman (29 Sep 2017)

I would assume CBRN Op as well.


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## Good2Golf (29 Sep 2017)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I would assume CBRN Op as well.



Good catch, JM. :nod:  That said, I wasn't sure they let those guys out in public...kind of reminds me of the Star Wars cantina...  ;D

Regards
G2G


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## jollyjacktar (29 Sep 2017)

I'm curious about MTOG guys as well as they now belong to CANSOF family too.


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## dimsum (29 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I'm curious about MTOG guys as well as they now belong to CANSOF family too.



I think the RCN powers that be would have kittens if MTOG wears an "army" uniform.

I like it.   :nod:


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## Monsoon (29 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I'm curious about MTOG guys as well as they now belong to CANSOF family too.


Actually, they've gone elaborately out of their way to make clear to all applicants and members that they are NOT SOF.


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## Journeyman (29 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I'm curious about MTOG guys as well as they now belong to CANSOF family too.


While they provide a maritime SOF capability, they don't fall under CANSOFCOM.... yet.


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## dimsum (29 Sep 2017)

Monsoon said:
			
		

> Actually, they've gone elaborately out of their way to make clear to all applicants and members that they are NOT SOF.



Elaborately?  Like an interpretive dance or a diorama?   >


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## jollyjacktar (29 Sep 2017)

OK, my confusion stems from all the fancy videos that gives one the impression then that they are part of the family.  Someone needs to tell the Photo Techs...


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## PuckChaser (29 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> OK, my confusion stems from all the fancy videos that gives one the impression then that they are part of the family.  Someone needs to tell the Photo Techs...



Why change the videos? Its a cool job and looks cool on videos. The fact that the course is only 3 months long (compared to a year or more for Assaulters and Operators), and that the video I found has all their names and ranks which isn't something I've seen on other CANSOF stuff.


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## Sf2 (29 Sep 2017)

Mtog does not belong to cansof, nor is it a sof unit.


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## Good2Golf (29 Sep 2017)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Mtog does not belong to cansof, nor is it a sof unit.



Good to see you, SF2!  It would seem that rumours of you becoming a greeter at Home Deport were greatly exaggerated.  ;D

Cheers

G2G


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## quadrapiper (29 Sep 2017)

WRT MTOG - specialist operations, but not Special Operations, sort of thing?

WRT the CANSOFCOM uniform - very sharp. On the utterly non-operational end, will be interesting to see how they're integrated into ceremonial endeavours in the future. Rather like using them for the flag party.


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## dimsum (29 Sep 2017)

quadrapiper said:
			
		

> WRT MTOG - specialist operations, but not Special Operations, sort of thing?
> 
> WRT the CANSOFCOM uniform - very sharp. On the utterly non-operational end, will be interesting to see how they're integrated into ceremonial endeavours in the future. Rather like using them for the flag party.



<sarcasm>

So our SOF will be like the Guards units?

</sarcasm>


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## Loachman (29 Sep 2017)

Tan bearskins...?


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## jollyjacktar (29 Sep 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Tan bearskins...?


Coyote


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Sep 2017)

_simulated _coyote...


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## McG (16 Oct 2017)

Guess who else is thinking of going back to “pinks and greens”.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/14/army-uniform-board-to-consider-bringing-back-iconic-pinks-and-greens-uniform/

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/10/10/youre-not-seeing-things-soldiers-at-ausa-are-wearing-prototype-pinks-and-greens/

Looks like CANSOFCOM might find itself in the same dess uniform as the US Army.


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Oct 2017)

That will save on costs....


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## PuckChaser (16 Oct 2017)

Colin P said:
			
		

> That will save on costs....



US Army is buying from Logistik Unicorp?


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## eliminator (29 Mar 2018)

"MGen Rouleau, Commander #CANSOFCOM, attends the opening ceremony of the Caribbean Special Tactics Training Centre in Jamaica funded by Global Affairs Canada’s Capacity-Building Programs. The Centre is a regional training centre bringing together other Caribbean partners to collectively provide training as part of the next step toward developing strong and sustainable Caribbean regional security partnerships. CANSOFCOM has been working with the Jamaica Defence Force since 2008."


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## eliminator (29 Mar 2018)

Updated HQ page:

https://www.canada.ca/fr/commandement-forces-operations-speciales/organisation/structure-organisationnelle.html


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## Good2Golf (29 Mar 2018)

I think the uniform looks good...and it avoids the crazy bus driver forage cap! :nod:

Regards
G2G


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## Rifleman62 (29 Mar 2018)

First time I noticed the Formation Badge (?) is similar to the Second World War, First Special Service Force.

Sharp uniforms.


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## FJAG (29 Mar 2018)

Somewhat reminiscent of the WWII US Army Pinks






Strangely enough there seems to be a move back in that direction by them.

https://www.stripes.com/news/army-mulls-reinstating-wwii-era-pink-and-green-uniforms-1.506179

 :cheers:


----------



## McG (29 Mar 2018)

Well, it is an historic US Army uniform.


----------



## RocketRichard (29 Mar 2018)

MCG said:
			
		

> Well, it is an historic US Army uniform.


Minus the beret. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jollyjacktar (29 Mar 2018)

FJAG said:
			
		

> Somewhat reminiscent of the WWII US Army Pinks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know that the blue, historically came before the khaki in their uniform colours but if they're going to this vs the blue, then it's a good move.  This, looks sharp whereas the dress blues are so very fugly.  To my eyes, not strange at all.


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## RangerRay (29 Mar 2018)

eliminator said:
			
		

> "MGen Rouleau, Commander #CANSOFCOM, attends the opening ceremony of the Caribbean Special Tactics Training Centre in Jamaica funded by Global Affairs Canada’s Capacity-Building Programs. The Centre is a regional training centre bringing together other Caribbean partners to collectively provide training as part of the next step toward developing strong and sustainable Caribbean regional security partnerships. CANSOFCOM has been working with the Jamaica Defence Force since 2008."



Well, now we know where our old tan DEUs went…😁


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## daftandbarmy (29 Mar 2018)

eliminator said:
			
		

> "MGen Rouleau, Commander #CANSOFCOM, attends the opening ceremony of the Caribbean Special Tactics Training Centre in Jamaica funded by Global Affairs Canada’s Capacity-Building Programs. The Centre is a regional training centre bringing together other Caribbean partners to collectively provide training as part of the next step toward developing strong and sustainable Caribbean regional security partnerships. CANSOFCOM has been working with the Jamaica Defence Force since 2008."



I hope he doesn't have an ND on those scissors


----------



## dimsum (30 Mar 2018)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I know that the blue, historically came before the khaki in their uniform colours but if they're going to this vs the blue, then it's a good move.  This, looks sharp whereas the dress blues are so very fugly.  To my eyes, not strange at all.



From what I've read, it doesn't replace the blues but more like the USMC green uniform.


----------



## Journeyman (30 Mar 2018)

Channelling my inner RSM/Adjt.... nice uniform, but incorrectly worn.

Paraphrasing the Dress Regs, earned foreign skill badges can be worn:  a) when in the awarding country, or b) when officially hosting someone from that country.  MGen MR is wearing the US Military Freefall Parachutist Badge, while not meeting either of the criteria above.


_CHAIRBORNE!_


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Mar 2018)

May as well point out the beret is not being worn IAW CFP 265 either... rly:

Beret. The beret shall be worn evenly on the head, with the sweatband 2.5 cm above the eyebrows, the badge centred over the left eye, and the crown pulled downward to the right. The break of thesweatband shall be worn centred at the back of the head, with no draw string visible.

 :clubinhand:


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## FSTO (30 Mar 2018)

I think the whole ensemble looks a little goofy. But thats just me.  ;D


----------



## Retired AF Guy (30 Mar 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> May as well point out the beret is not being worn IAW CFP 265 either... rly:
> 
> Beret. The beret shall be worn evenly on the head, with the sweatband 2.5 cm above the eyebrows, the badge centred over the left eye, and the crown pulled downward to the right. The break of thesweatband shall be worn centred at the back of the head, with no draw string visible.
> 
> :clubinhand:



Let me guess- ex-Van Doo?


----------



## slayer/raptor (30 Mar 2018)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I hope he doesn't have an ND on those scissors



When you've done what he has done in his career, then you can make fun of him for his ND. It is easy to be the critic of the man in the arena. MGen Rouleau immediately owned up to his mistake and called the CDS directly and then advised all the members in his command, a lot of others probably wouldn't have.


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## Swingline1984 (30 Mar 2018)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Channelling my inner RSM/Adjt.... nice uniform, but incorrectly worn.
> 
> Paraphrasing the Dress Regs, earned foreign skill badges can be worn:  a) when in the awarding country, or b) when officially hosting someone from that country.  MGen MR is wearing the US Military Freefall Parachutist Badge, while not meeting either of the criteria above.
> 
> ...



***deleted*** for being wrong, just plain wrong.


----------



## Jarnhamar (30 Mar 2018)

slayer14 said:
			
		

> When you've done what he has done in his career, then you can make fun of him for his ND.


It comes with the territory of being combat arms IMO.  MPRRs and racks of medals don't immunize someone from ribbing.  


Not a fan of the short pants myself but I'm sure it would make the boot band fans happy  ;D


----------



## garb811 (30 Mar 2018)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Channelling my inner RSM/Adjt.... nice uniform, but incorrectly worn.
> 
> Paraphrasing the Dress Regs, earned foreign skill badges can be worn:  a) when in the awarding country, or b) when officially hosting someone from that country.  MGen MR is wearing the US Military Freefall Parachutist Badge, while not meeting either of the criteria above.
> 
> ...





			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> May as well point out the beret is not being worn IAW CFP 265 either... rly:
> 
> Beret. The beret shall be worn evenly on the head, with the sweatband 2.5 cm above the eyebrows, the badge centred over the left eye, and the crown pulled downward to the right. The break of thesweatband shall be worn centred at the back of the head, with no draw string visible.
> 
> :clubinhand:


The problem is you are quoting the CAF Dress Manual. As SOF, the regular CAF rules do not apply and they have their own set, drafted by themselves and approved directly by the CDS.  Unfortunately, they are Classified so unavailable for viewing by anyone else in the CAF.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Mar 2018)

garb811 said:
			
		

> The problem is you are quoting the CAF Dress Manual. As SOF, the regular CAF rules do not apply and they have their own set, drafted by themselves and approved directly by the CDS.  Unfortunately, they are Classified so unavailable for viewing by anyone else in the CAF.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:



_JOHN_...has a long moustache.  _JOHN_...has a long moustache.  anic:

BEADWINDOW!!  You're not supposed to talk about the dress regs that don't exist!


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2018)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I think the whole ensemble looks a little goofy. But thats just me.  ;D



I agree.   :nod:


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## FSTO (30 Mar 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> _JOHN_...has a long moustache.  _JOHN_...has a long moustache.  anic:
> 
> BEADWINDOW!!  You're not supposed to talk about the dress regs that don't exist!



I love the SOF guys and gals in the way that they are supposed to be so secretive and out of the public view. But with their special uniforms and haircuts you can spot them a mile away. 
Everytime I see one I can only think of Col Flagg.


----------



## jollyjacktar (30 Mar 2018)

I loved that guy!  Who else could you trust to go that extra mile and break their arm with the x-ray machine when needed?


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (30 Mar 2018)

slayer14 said:
			
		

> When you've done what he has done in his career, then you can make fun of him for his ND. It is easy to be the critic of the man in the arena. MGen Rouleau immediately owned up to his mistake and called the CDS directly and then advised all the members in his command, a lot of others probably wouldn't have.



Easy!  Need to take the banter in stride.


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## Good2Golf (30 Mar 2018)

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he’s having a good chuckle over this thread and all the handwringing and angst over the dressy-dressy sky-is-falling stuff. ;D

G2G


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## daftandbarmy (30 Mar 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> It comes with the territory of being combat arms IMO.  MPRRs and racks of medals don't immunize someone from ribbing.
> 
> 
> Not a fan of the short pants myself but I'm sure it would make the boot band fans happy  ;D



Precisely.... If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined.

And I bet that 'they' get issued boot bands too while we poor can-fods have to make do with a lady's garters


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Mar 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he’s having a good chuckle over this thread and all the handwringing and angst over the dressy-dressy sky-is-falling stuff. ;D
> 
> G2G



Incorrect berets result in reduced operational effectiveness and detract from our force enablers that would otherwise...oh crap, I can't even finish that one....


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## RocketRichard (30 Mar 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Incorrect berets result in reduced operational effectiveness and detract from our force enablers that would otherwise...oh crap, I can't even finish that one....


Beret’s on point 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bick (30 Mar 2018)

Gunner


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## Gunner98 (31 Mar 2018)

garb811 said:
			
		

> The problem is you are quoting the CAF Dress Manual. As SOF, the regular CAF rules do not apply and they have their own set, drafted by themselves and approved directly by the CDS.  Unfortunately, they are Classified so unavailable for viewing by anyone else in the CAF.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:



So the SOF dress manual does not include creases in the pants (in the scissors cutting photo check out MR's right leg) or squared/tapered sideburns (MR's are spiked/hooked).  As for MR's beret it has had the same shape since 1986 when I first met him in Artillery Phase training.  Take a look at this CSOR Change of Command Parade for more dress tips!  Source: http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/2017/07/06/new-commanding-officer-for-csor

Why keep CSOR a secret when you can find photo-ops on front page of local newspaper?


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## Eye In The Sky (31 Mar 2018)

CSOR is so secretive, both the incoming and outgoing COs are "seated left".

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:


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## Humphrey Bogart (31 Mar 2018)

Anyone notice the chairs for the VVIPs in the background:







Who knew watching a CANSOF event would feel just like a shiatsu massage at the mall  ;D


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## Journeyman (31 Mar 2018)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I love the SOF guys and gals in the way that they are supposed to be so secretive and out of the public view. But with their special uniforms and haircuts you can spot them a mile away.


The only unit within the Command that that often-repeated myth approximates is JTF2, although even they have occasionally done public displays. 

The others are very much intended for open consumption.  On one occasion, I was with the CO & RSM of JTF2. The RSM asked a soldier walking by if he was with CSOR, to which the troop replied, "I might be" (with a bit of a 'who are you to ask?' sneer [not necessarily a good move]).  The RSM took him aside and gave him a 'loving' chat on how CSOR is part of "the public face of SOF."

Back to the original topic though, if you cannot be readily identified in public, then "the real enemy" wins -- the budget-cutters!  





			
				Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he’s having a good chuckle over this thread and all the handwringing and angst over the dressy-dressy sky-is-falling stuff. ;D


I suspect you're right  :nod:

.....although I can't imagine a GO with enough free time on his hands to wade through all the klag often posted.


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## Haggis (31 Mar 2018)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> .....although I can't imagine a GO with enough free time on his hands to wade through all the klag often posted.



There are a few GO that frequent these forums.  Others may simply have an EA who occasionally yells out "Hey, sir, you gotta come read this!"


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## Good2Golf (31 Mar 2018)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> So the SOF dress manual does not include creases in the pants (in the scissors cutting photo check out MR's right leg) or squared/tapered sideburns (MR's are spiked/hooked)...



MR has always rocked awesome 'chops'! :nod:

G2G


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## Humphrey Bogart (31 Mar 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> MR has always rocked awesome 'chops'! :nod:
> 
> G2G



And I love it!  Reminds me of an 80s action movie star!







I want his next speech to open with "M Bison!  I'm here to kick your ass!"


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## dimsum (31 Mar 2018)

Haggis said:
			
		

> There are a few GO that frequent these forums.  Others may simply have an EA who occasionally yells out "Hey, sir, you gotta come read this!"



A job that *requires* reading this site for work?  Put me in, Coach!   :nod:


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## Haggis (31 Mar 2018)

It falls under "other duties as assigned".


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## Halifax Tar (27 Apr 2018)

Check out this link for a recent COC in SOF. 

https://www.facebook.com/CanadianForces/posts/2262462373980952

The last pick is the RSMs.  They look sharp.  I like the short sleeve khaki look with bloused boots.


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## FSTO (27 Apr 2018)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> Check out this link for a recent COC in SOF.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/CanadianForces/posts/2262462373980952
> 
> The last pick is the RSMs.  They look sharp.  I like the short sleeve khaki look with bloused boots.



I see that Maj-Gen Rouleau is now coming to CJOC. Does he still get to wear his fancy SOF uniform there or go back to the CADPAT since they are "Operational" at CJOC. :rofl:


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## Eye In The Sky (27 Apr 2018)

Are those Corcoran jump boots?  https://www.corcoranandmatterhorn.com/Item.asp?Style=1500&CategoryID=28&Gender=M

If so...those were likely purchased without any ITBs!   anic:


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## tomahawk6 (28 Apr 2018)

I bought a pair right after graduating jump school. ;D


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Are those Corcoran jump boots?  https://www.corcoranandmatterhorn.com/Item.asp?Style=1500&CategoryID=28&Gender=M
> 
> If so...those were likely purchased without any ITBs!   anic:



Which are awesome, as long as you don't need to walk anywhere except to the bar after a jump.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (28 Apr 2018)

Is it just me, or does the wide gold stripe at the bottom of the GO uniforms look totally out of place, even goofy, on the CANSOFCOM DEU?


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2018)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Is it just me, or does the wide gold stripe at the bottom of the GO uniforms look totally out of place, even goofy, on the CANSOFCOM DEU?



If you're going to ape the customs of our American cousins, you may as well go whole hog!


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## Oldgateboatdriver (28 Apr 2018)

It's just that gold on dark green or black works. The Air Force has its even goofier system of both stripes and shoulder boards - but at least in greyish-blue it works with their light blue. But gold and kaki ??? I would have though black or a different shade of lighter brown would work better.

Damn, all those decoration shows my wife forces on me are starting to addle my brain: I look for colour coordination.   ;D


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## Gunner98 (28 Apr 2018)

I have difficulty understanding how a SOF MGen retains a distinctive SOF environmental uniform since all Colonels and above become subject to the Col/GOFO cap badge and lose their Regimental affiliation and merely retain their environmental uniform.  I was equally puzzled by the Honour Guard photo of the General's Salute for MND, why is there a SOF officer with Army DEU and why are there Air Force Guys in the Guard?  Couldn't SOFCOM provide sufficient soldiers to fill the ranks?  

It would seem to me if you are wearing the tan brown beret you should be in the SOF uniform. If you are a support trade serving in SOF units do keep your DEU because only assault course-qualified people get to wear tan beret and brown uniform.  It seems very confusing (or all made up) to me!


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## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> I have difficulty understanding how a SOF MGen retains a distinctive SOF environmental uniform since all Colonels and above become subject to the Col/GOFO cap badge and lose their Regimental affiliation and merely retain their environmental uniform.  I was equally puzzled by the Honour Guard photo of the General's Salute for MND, why is there a SOF officer with Army DEU and why are there Air Force Guys in the Guard?  Couldn't SOFCOM provide sufficient soldiers to fill the ranks?
> 
> It would seem to me if you are wearing the tan brown beret you should be in the SOF uniform. If you are a support trade serving in SOF units do keep your DEU because only assault course-qualified people get to wear tan beret and brown uniform.  It seems very confusing (or all made up) to me!



I agree, but apparently only Operators get the new uniform not the supporters( which looks crappy on a parade of course).  And yes it occurred to me too. is that the Comd really an Operator?  Though I get that it's likely the symbolism at work here.  I have not heard from my supporter friends in the SOF community if this is causing any moral issues or not.

Jon


----------



## PuckChaser (28 Apr 2018)

MGen Rouleau is an Artillery Officer who is a trained Assaulter. http://canadianartillery.ca/organization/senior-serving-artillery/rouleaumn/

Also interesting is that MGen Dawe is not an Assaulter, CBRN Op or SF Op but wears the SOFCOM DEU. Other than it would be odd for the Comd to not be in the same DEU as his gunfighters, perhaps the intent is to eventually give the uniform to all members of CANSOFCOM. Its also a new uniform, so even with the speed that SOF seems to be able to get stuff, they likely don't have enough to kit out even all the Operators/Assaulters yet.


----------



## Gunner98 (28 Apr 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> MGen Rouleau is an Artillery Officer who is a trained Assaulter. http://canadianartillery.ca/organization/senior-serving-artillery/rouleaumn/



MGen Rouleau is a General Officer therefore his course qualifications and former occupation as an Artillery Officer are of no relevance.  If the CDS was a former Infantry Officer and former assaulter would he wear SOFCOM browns?


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## PuckChaser (28 Apr 2018)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> MGen Rouleau is a General Officer therefore his course qualifications and former occupation as an Artillery Officer are of no relevance.  If the CDS was a former Infantry Officer and former assaulter would he wear SOFCOM browns?



We'll find out if Rouleau ends up as the CDS in a few years.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Apr 2018)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> I have difficulty understanding how a SOF MGen retains a distinctive SOF environmental uniform since all Colonels and above become subject to the Col/GOFO cap badge and lose their Regimental affiliation and merely retain their environmental uniform.



Didn't you answer your own question in your question?  The SOF folks have their own DEU.  If a Supply Tech who is Army DEU gets posted to a ship, they don't change their DEU either.  Am I missing something?




> I was equally puzzled by the Honour Guard photo of the General's Salute for MND, why is there a SOF officer with Army DEU and why are there Air Force Guys in the Guard?  Couldn't SOFCOM provide sufficient soldiers to fill the ranks?



Because SOF has a F Ech and an A Ech like anyone else does?  And the norm is to have 'multiple DEUs' on parade;  I attend RCAF parades now, and there is always RCN and C Army DEUs on the parade too.

Notice the folks in RCAF DEU in the attached pic with the grey 'tab' in the wedges and the RCN DEU folks with the tan band on their peak cap (not sure if this is still done or not, but it once was  * based on video below, it looks like the tan tabs and bands are history).


----------



## Good2Golf (28 Apr 2018)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> MGen Rouleau is a General Officer therefore his course qualifications and former occupation as an Artillery Officer are of no relevance.  If the CDS was a former Infantry Officer and former assaulter would he wear SOFCOM browns?



No relevance?  ???  He's a qualified Assaulter entitled to wear the uniform, per the CANSOF dress regs.  Perhaps one could ask what relevance being on the GOL has to do with his DEU?

Perhaps we might wait until LGen Bowes transfers command to LGen Rouleau at the CJOC Change-of-Command parade coming up soon, and see what DEU he wears?

...and ask why the CDS waived the forage cap part of the Army GOL dress regs, non?


:2c:

Regards,

G2G


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> And yes it occurred to me too. is that the Comd really an Operator?



I'm pretty sure that he is wearing the JTF2 badge under his CinC Unit Commendation.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Apr 2018)

Short video of the ceremony at link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtWLrGKb0Do


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## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure that he is wearing the JTF2 badge under his CinC Unit Commendation.



I know technically he is qualified, but my statement was really questioning how often he works as an operator, if he's going to wear the uniform does he even train with his teams at DHTC?

Jon


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> I know technically he is qualified, but my statement was really questioning how often he works as an operator, if he's going to wear the uniform does he even train with his teams at DHTC?
> 
> Jon



No relevance.  

The Comd 1 Cdn Air Div doesn't pilot helicopters much anymore, yet he still wears his Wings he earned, his flight suit is his operational dress.  Sitting in Wpg in the Big Glass Building is far removed from life in 1 Wing and the crews getting ready to go to Mali.  

If I stopped flying tomorrow and never saw the inside of a plane that didn't say WestJet on the side, I'd still (IAW policy) wear my Wings (which fall under the skill/qualification category).  How many people do the Jump course, wear cherry wings until CRA/retirement?


----------



## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> No relevance.
> 
> The Comd 1 Cdn Air Div doesn't pilot helicopters much anymore, yet he still wears his Wings he earned, his flight suit is his operational dress.  Sitting in Wpg in the Big Glass Building is far removed from life in 1 Wing and the crews getting ready to go to Mali.
> 
> If I stopped flying tomorrow and never saw the inside of a plane that didn't say WestJet on the side, I'd still (IAW policy) wear my Wings (which fall under the skill/qualification category).  How many people do the Jump course, wear cherry wings until CRA/retirement?



Well this is a bit of a tangent, but I wear my jump wings too....but I would jump out of a serviceable aircraft tomorrow if needed.  My point is a little relevant, as supporters are not wearing the uniform because they are not being employed the same as operators, my argument is that neither is the Comd SOFCOM....

But this is the last I will bother with this tangent :-/

Jon


----------



## Good2Golf (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Well this is a bit of a tangent, but I wear my jump wings too....but I would jump out of a serviceable aircraft tomorrow if needed....



...you mean jump only after re-gaining currency, of course - right?

Are you implying that if General Rouleau is no longer going to stack up in a stick going through the door, he should no longer wear the 'dinner plate'?

Regards
G2G


----------



## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ...you mean jump only after re-gaining currency, of course - right?
> 
> Are you implying that if General Rouleau is no longer going to stack up in a stick going through the door, he should no longer wear the 'dinner plate'?
> 
> ...



I'm sure that someone at 3VP would be glad to yell at me for a morning and then kick me out the door in the afternoon    I'm more questioning the logic of not having supporters dress in the new uniform, when the Comd who is not any more active in Ops than they are is.... out

Jon


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> I'm sure that someone at 3VP would be glad to yell at me for a morning and then kick me out the door in the afternoon    I'm more questioning the logic of not having supporters dress in the new uniform, when the Comd who is not any more active in Ops than they are is.... out
> 
> Jon



Or the new Comd who was never an SF Operator but is wearing the uniform.  I like that SOF has a new uniform but our "who wears what" makes zero sense.

I also noted that the SF Ops were wearing the new CSOR Cap Badge along with the Major, I thought Officers still belonged to their respective Regiments?


----------



## Good2Golf (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> I'm sure that someone at 3VP would be glad to yell at me for a morning and then kick me out the door in the afternoon    I'm more questioning the logic of not having supporters dress in the new uniform, when the Comd who is not any more active in Ops than they are is.... out
> 
> Jon



...and the CCWO?  So neither CWO Legault should have, nor CWO Bonvie should in the future wear the dress, even though they are both qualified S-1?  

At what rank does should the assaulter/operator-qualified member stop wearing the CANSOF DEU while still in the Command?

G2G


----------



## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ...and the CCWO?  So neither CWO Legault should have, nor CWO Bonvie should in the future wear the dress, even though they are both qualified S-1?
> 
> At what rank does should the assaulter/operator-qualified member stop wearing the CANSOF DEU while still in the Command?
> 
> G2G



My point was more to support that there should not be 4 DEU in SOF but one, Supporters contributions to SOF are just as important as the Operators, IMHO.  And theoretically what happens with the Comd or Comd CWO are not Operators? Or are we going to dictate that only Operators can be part of the SOF Comd team?

Food for thought...

Jon


----------



## Good2Golf (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> My point was more to support that there should not be 4 DEU in SOF but one, Supporters contributions to SOF are just as important as the Operators, IMHO.  And theoretically what happens with the Comd or Comd CWO are not Operators? Or are we going to dictate that only Operators can be part of the SOF Comd team?
> 
> Food for thought...
> 
> Jon



What about re-uniforming supporters with Army or Navy DEU at an RCAF unit, for example?  After all, and you may recognize these words, "Supporters contributions to [the RCAF] are just as important as the operators..."

Some more food for thought...

G2G


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (28 Apr 2018)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> My point was more to support that there should not be 4 DEU in SOF but one, Supporters contributions to SOF are just as important as the Operators, IMHO.  And theoretically what happens with the Comd or Comd CWO are not Operators? Or are we going to dictate that only Operators can be part of the SOF Comd team?
> 
> Food for thought...
> 
> Jon



If SOF is supposedly an element, then yes, they should all wear the DEU while part of said element.  

Note the new CANSOF Comd is wearing the SOF DEU and he is not a qualified SF Op or Assaulter.  

I like the new SOF uniform but the CAF really needs to get this uniform stuff under control.  That parade looks ridiculous with the rainbow of colours.



			
				Good2Golf said:
			
		

> What about re-uniforming supporters with Army or Navy DEU at an RCAF unit, for example?  After all, and you may recognize these words, "Supporters contributions to [the RCAF] are just as important as the operators..."
> 
> Some more food for thought...
> 
> G2G



I like that idea, one step closer to de-unification.


----------



## Old EO Tech (28 Apr 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> What about re-uniforming supporters with Army or Navy DEU at an RCAF unit, for example?  After all, and you may recognize these words, "Supporters contributions to [the RCAF] are just as important as the operators..."
> 
> Some more food for thought...
> 
> G2G



We did at one point in history have RCAF uniformed vehicle mechanics, but when the RCEME Corps became CA managed that stopped.  We do give people unit berets in the CA, maroon and black etc.  The difference I would say is SOF invented a new DEU and consciously made a decision to not apply it to Supporters, the RCAF and RCN inherited a mixed DEU situation, even in CA units we have Log guys off all uniforms.  SOF could have decided to to not inherit the situation the rest of us have.....and didn't.

Jon


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## PuckChaser (28 Apr 2018)

Or would their priority have been SF Ops and CBRN Ops who have completed an actual VOT but still had to wear the DEU of their former Regimental/Element affiliation? Assaulter is an odd bit because they're only a managed specialty, but I've never seen someone back doing their old trade after having spent time as an assaulter, so they likely got lumped in as well.


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## SupersonicMax (28 Apr 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Or would their priority have been SF Ops and CBRN Ops who have completed an actual VOT but still had to wear the DEU of their former Regimental/Element affiliation? Assaulter is an odd bit because they're only a managed specialty, but I've never seen someone back doing their old trade after having spent time as an assaulter, so they likely got lumped in as well.



I know at least one assaulter who got back to his original occupation.


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## Good2Golf (29 Apr 2018)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I know at least one assaulter who got back to his original occupation.



Although he had a momentary return to the fun when I dropped by flatland and let him relive his time as a slider out the side of my 146.  ;D



			
				Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> We did at one point in history have RCAF uniformed vehicle mechanics, but when the RCEME Corps became CA managed that stopped.  We do give people unit berets in the CA, maroon and black etc...



Ah, I get it...beret colour makes it all okay - supporters fell appreciated no matter the DEU colour...except for tan berets, that is.   :

Yet more food for thought...

G2G


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## Gorgo (6 May 2018)

Does anyone have pictures of the hat badge and collar dogs the rank and file wear with the new DEU?


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## LightFighter (6 May 2018)

http://reg.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=2939&ProjectElementID=10334


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## LightFighter (6 May 2018)

Another close up


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## Gorgo (7 May 2018)

Pickle Rick said:
			
		

> http://reg.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=2939&ProjectElementID=10334



Now that is nice.


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## Gorgo (25 Aug 2018)

One quick question (and apologies for starting up this chat again):  Will officers entitled to wear the CANSOFCOM DEU that came from RCAF or RCN be allowed to wear their old environmental rank insignia (pearl-grey for RCAF, black-trimmed-gold stripes with Elliot's Eye for RCN officers) or is it all the same as the Army rank insignia?


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## PuckChaser (25 Aug 2018)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> One quick question (and apologies for starting up this chat again):  Will officers entitled to wear the CANSOFCOM DEU that came from RCAF or RCN be allowed to wear their old environmental rank insignia (pearl-grey for RCAF, black-trimmed-gold stripes with Elliot's Eye for RCN officers) or is it all the same as the Army rank insignia?



Why would they wear non-CANSOF accouterments on a CANSOF DEU? Seems to me the whole reason why they got a new DEU was because they had Operators/Assaulters/CBRN dudes from the RCN/RCAF/CA wearing Regimental/Environmental accouterments/trade badges for environments they'd never go back to.


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## hambley92 (25 Aug 2018)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> One quick question (and apologies for starting up this chat again):  Will officers entitled to wear the CANSOFCOM DEU that came from RCAF or RCN be allowed to wear their old environmental rank insignia (pearl-grey for RCAF, black-trimmed-gold stripes with Elliot's Eye for RCN officers) or is it all the same as the Army rank insignia?



From the CAF Dress Instructions (3-2-3):

14. Canadian Special Operations Forces Command officers who are qualified operators or in select senior
appointments and entitled to wear the CANSOFCOM DEU shall wear the same rank insignia as Army
officers as illustrated in Figure 3-2-1 and Figure 3-2-2, with correctly coloured shoulder straps or slip-ons,
and their wear is detailed in Annex A.


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## Gorgo (25 Aug 2018)

LogOLife said:
			
		

> From the CAF Dress Instructions (3-2-3):
> 
> 14. Canadian Special Operations Forces Command officers who are qualified operators or in select senior
> appointments and entitled to wear the CANSOFCOM DEU shall wear the same rank insignia as Army
> ...



Thanks for making that clear to me.  Needed to know that for a fanfic story I'm writing.


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## dimsum (26 Aug 2018)

LogOLife said:
			
		

> From the CAF Dress Instructions (3-2-3):
> 
> 14. Canadian Special Operations Forces Command officers who are qualified operators or in select senior
> appointments and entitled to wear the CANSOFCOM DEU shall wear the same rank insignia as Army
> ...



So, theoretically, a LCdr could end up being a Maj?


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## daftandbarmy (26 Aug 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> So, theoretically, a LCdr could end up being a Maj?



Rank wise, yes, and the trench digging upgrade course comes free apparently


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## medicineman (26 Aug 2018)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Rank wise, yes, and the trench digging upgrade course comes free apparently



No steward to do it for him?

 8)

MM


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## brihard (26 Aug 2018)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> Thanks for making that clear to me.  Needed to know that for a fanfic story I'm writing.



I look forward to seeing 50 Shades of Tan published.


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## Haggis (26 Aug 2018)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I look forward to seeing 50 Shades of Tan published.



I wonder who will play Christian Beige in the movie?


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## FSTO (26 Aug 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Why would they wear non-CANSOF accouterments on a CANSOF DEU? Seems to me the whole reason why they got a new DEU was because they had Operators/Assaulters/CBRN dudes from the RCN/RCAF/CA wearing Regimental/Environmental accouterments/trade badges for environments they'd never go back to.


I know of many RCN  officers who came back to the navy after a stint with the SOF folks.


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## Gorgo (26 Aug 2018)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I look forward to seeing 50 Shades of Tan published.



 :rofl: :rofl: Doubt I could publish something like that!


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## dapaterson (26 Aug 2018)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> :rofl: :rofl: Doubt I could publish something like that!



Given that it's CANSOF, the book would read like this:


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## Humphrey Bogart (27 Aug 2018)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I know of many RCN  officers who came back to the navy after a stint with the SOF folks.



Why wouldn't they?  The whites look dope!

I've never understood the point of CANSOF DEU, considering it's a command and not an environment.


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## PuckChaser (27 Aug 2018)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Why wouldn't they?  The whites look dope!
> 
> I've never understood the point of CANSOF DEU, considering it's a command and not an environment.


The current CDS considers them as a 4th environment, equal to CA, RCN, and RCAF.


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## Humphrey Bogart (27 Aug 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The current CDS considers them as a 4th environment, equal to CA, RCN, and RCAF.



Which is stupid and a perfect example of personality driven policy.  It is a joint command with units that draw personnel from all three environments.  

What would make sense is for a unit like CSOR to have their own dress uniform they wear on parades as it is a Regiment but a completely new set of DEU?  Common!

To show the stupidity of this:






I guess the OC of MTOG should be running around in CANSOF DEU, wearing a major's rank while correcting everyone telling them he is in fact a Lieuntenant-Commander.

Then you've got others like the current CANSOF Comd who has never been a qualified operator or assaulter wearing CANSOF DEU while others in the Comd are wearing their old environmental DEU with a tan beret to indicate they are "supporters".

I could buy the CANSOF is an "environment" and a "command" argument but what the CAF needs to desperately get better at is _*CONSISTENCY*_.  Either everyone in the Command wears it or no one wears it.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (27 Aug 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The current CDS considers them as a 4th environment, equal to CA, RCN, and RCAF.



Which only goes to show that even the CDS is confused by some CAF notions: The RCN, CA and RCAF are NOT environments - they are CAF Commands. The environments are Sea, Land and Air. The tags inside my DEU says DEU Sea, not DEU Navy. Probably rare, but you could conceivably have a Log officer wearing (being assigned) an Air DEU and spend her whole career working in and at bases under the CA or RCN control, for instance. 

And, BTW, once you decide that the environments are sea, land and air, that doesn't leave much room for another one on planet earth.  ;D


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## daftandbarmy (27 Aug 2018)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Which only goes to show that even the CDS is confused by some CAF notions: The RCN, CA and RCAF are NOT environments - they are CAF Commands. The environments are Sea, Land and Air. The tags inside my DEU says DEU Sea, not DEU Navy. Probably rare, but you could conceivably have a Log officer wearing (being assigned) an Air DEU and spend her whole career working in and at bases under the CA or RCN control, for instance.
> 
> And, BTW, once you decide that the environments are sea, land and air, that doesn't leave much room for another one on planet earth.  ;D



What about 'Space'? We have to keep up with our southern Joneses' don't we?


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## Humphrey Bogart (27 Aug 2018)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Which only goes to show that even the CDS is confused by some CAF notions: The RCN, CA and RCAF are NOT environments - they are CAF Commands. The environments are Sea, Land and Air. The tags inside my DEU says DEU Sea, not DEU Navy. Probably rare, but you could conceivably have a Log officer wearing (being assigned) an Air DEU and spend her whole career working in and at bases under the CA or RCN control, for instance.
> 
> And, BTW, once you decide that the environments are sea, land and air, that doesn't leave much room for another one on planet earth.  ;D



Cyber environment  ;D


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## Oldgateboatdriver (27 Aug 2018)

Does the red fedora denote that the cyber operator is also Cyber SAR qualified ???


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## Good2Golf (27 Aug 2018)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Does the red fedora denote that the cyber operator is also Cyber SAR qualified ???



Policing....OGBD, as in policing the Interwebz.  SAR is orange.


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## Humphrey Bogart (27 Aug 2018)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Policing....OGBD, as in policing the Interwebz.  SAR is orange.



Yes!  And the wrist guards are a great example of the CAF taking the initiative and dealing with the injuries their Cyber Warriors will most definitely incur in the service of her Majesty!  

Carpel Tunnel Syndrome? NP!  You won't even need to go through VAC to get these!


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## AlDazz (13 May 2019)

An interesting choice in uniform colour and style. Not a bad idea at first but as the US Army is now returning to pinks and greens our special forces now are dressed like Americans. Guess we jumped the gun on this one.


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## Eye In The Sky (13 May 2019)

AlDazz said:
			
		

> An interesting choice in uniform colour and style. Not a bad idea at first but as the US Army is now returning to pinks and greens our special forces now are dressed like Americans. Guess we jumped the gun on this one.



So, the US is following our lead?


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## daftandbarmy (13 May 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> So, the US is following our lead?



Like the USMC's cam pattern?


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## dimsum (13 May 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Like the USMC's cam pattern?



At least the USMC credits us with helping develop MARPAT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARPAT


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## eliminator (16 Jun 2019)

3B version from the recent Comd RCN CoC.


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## Old EO Tech (16 Jun 2019)

eliminator said:
			
		

> 3B version from the recent Comd RCN CoC.



Is that really how the Comd SM beard grew in?  Or he's wearing a goatee?  Either way that beard in no way meets the standard IMHO, the CA SM just sent out an email threatening to rescind beards in the CA if we didn't start enforcing standards better.


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## Infanteer (16 Jun 2019)

It's the lighting.  He has a full beard, and its within regs.   :


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## OldSolduer (16 Jun 2019)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> It's the lighting.  He has a full beard, and its within regs.   :



There’s a lot of grey in his beard. That’s precisely the reason I won’t grow one. Plus I’m a bit of contrary type. 😈


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## Remius (16 Jun 2019)

Or maybe SOF is pissed that everyone looks like them now they have upped the ante and are growing goatees.  ;D


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## dimsum (16 Jun 2019)

eliminator said:
			
		

> 3B version from the recent Comd RCN CoC.



I guess they decided to save costs and copy the Aussie Army short sleeve uniform.


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## Lumber (17 Jun 2019)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I guess they decided to save costs and copy the Aussie Army short sleeve uniform.



I don't care who we copied it from, SOF has the bessed dress uniform in the CAF, and this coming from a guy who spent the last 13 years bragging about how much better RCN dress uniforms are than anyone else's (until now).


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## FSTO (17 Jun 2019)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I don't care who we copied it from, SOF has the bessed dress uniform in the CAF, and this coming from a guy who spent the last 13 years bragging about how much better RCN dress uniforms are than anyone else's (until now).



The SOF unis are a big "meh" to me.


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## Humphrey Bogart (17 Jun 2019)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I don't care who we copied it from, SOF has the bessed dress uniform in the CAF, and this coming from a guy who spent the last 13 years bragging about how much better RCN dress uniforms are than anyone else's (until now).



Common dude, the whites with shoulder boards are sweet!


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## daftandbarmy (17 Jun 2019)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Common dude, the whites with shoulder boards are sweet!



Carrying that sword everywhere must be a real 'drag' though


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## PuckChaser (18 Jun 2019)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> There’s a lot of grey in his beard. That’s precisely the reason I won’t grow one. Plus I’m a bit of contrary type. 😈



I got your back:


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## dapaterson (18 Jun 2019)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I got your back:



Nah, my back hair is grey too...


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## PuckChaser (18 Jun 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Nah, my back hair is grey too...



Mustache and beard is the recommended application area, think outside the box! You might need a bigger application brush though...  ;D


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## Jarnhamar (18 Jun 2019)

[quote author=Old EO Tech]the CA SM just sent out an email threatening to rescind beards in the CA if we didn't start enforcing standards better.
[/quote]

That's good leadership right there. Other NCOs can't enforce dress standards so me and everyone else who does follow the rules and enforce them suffer.


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## Humphrey Bogart (18 Jun 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> That's good leadership right there. Other NCOs can't enforce dress standards so me and everyone else who does follow the rules and enforce them suffer.



I don't understand the issue with beards?  I've had one on and off since I switched to the RCN.  I grow it out when I'm not sailing and when I'm sailing or have to wear firefighting gear, I shave it off.  

Some beards I've seen are pretty bad but it's more so the fact that some individuals aren't blessed with a full face of hair.  That doesn't mean they have any less of a right to grow one than I do.


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## daftandbarmy (18 Jun 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Nah, my back hair is grey too...



May I just say, on behalf of most of us, 'ew'.


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## dimsum (18 Jun 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> May I just say, on behalf of most of us, 'ew'.



 :-X


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## MJP (18 Jun 2019)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> I don't understand the issue with beards?



We take great pleasure in mucking about on things that don't really matter rather than focusing on things that do.  Beards is easier to fixate on than actual tangible things.


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## Jarnhamar (18 Jun 2019)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> I don't understand the issue with beards?  I've had one on and off since I switched to the RCN.  I grow it out when I'm not sailing and when I'm sailing or have to wear firefighting gear, I shave it off.
> 
> Some beards I've seen are pretty bad but it's more so the fact that some individuals aren't blessed with a full face of hair.  That doesn't mean they have any less of a right to grow one than I do.



As long as someone can still get a gas mask seal and do drill having a beard shouldn't matter.


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## Humphrey Bogart (18 Jun 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> As long as someone can still get a gas mask seal and do drill having a beard shouldn't matter.



Even having only done the DC School Engine Room Fire Training, I would not want to take the chance that my kit didn't work as intended in a real life scenario.

I think the same would apply to working in a CBRN environment.


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## dangerboy (18 Jun 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> As long as someone can still get a gas mask seal and do drill having a beard shouldn't matter.



The problem is you can get a good enough of a seal to block out CS gas particulates (as used in the gas hut) as they are quite large (large in terms of chemical agents) so you might think you are good, however, the nasty agents are quite a bit smaller and you most likely will not be able to get a seal with a beard.


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## mariomike (18 Jun 2019)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> , I would not want to take the chance that my kit didn't work as intended in a real life scenario.



I've never had facial hair. But, an SME had this to say,



			
				Scott said:
			
		

> Your best chance with RPE is ALWAYS when you're clean shaven. If that offends your personal sense of fashion and style, too bad. You always default to manufacturer's instructions - and I have yet to see one that doesn't mention being clean shaven.



I highlighted the yellow part, because I haven't either. eg: N95.


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## Jarnhamar (18 Jun 2019)

I'm being Facitiousy 

I'm always ponting out the same thing about particle size. 
Seems easy to me. Cbrn threat environment, shave. 

On another note our beard standard isn't GBA+ friendly.


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## garb811 (18 Jun 2019)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> The problem is you can get a good enough of a seal to block out CS gas particulates (as used in the gas hut) as they are quite large (large in terms of chemical agents) so you might think you are good, however, the nasty agents are quite a bit smaller and you most likely will not be able to get a seal with a beard.


I love the, "I just use gobs of Vaseline to get my seal!" crowd...


----------



## Eye In The Sky (18 Jun 2019)

garb811 said:
			
		

> I love the, "I just use gobs of Vaseline to get my seal!" crowd...



Very easy to ADREP right before a strike....


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## Old EO Tech (18 Jun 2019)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I don't care who we copied it from, SOF has the bessed dress uniform in the CAF, and this coming from a guy who spent the last 13 years bragging about how much better RCN dress uniforms are than anyone else's (until now).



I certainly agree, makes the CA look sad...


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## Old EO Tech (18 Jun 2019)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> It's the lighting.  He has a full beard, and its within regs.   :



lol...yes that must be it :-/   I have a crap load of grey in my beard and in no lighting do I look like I have a goatee... must be just me though :-/  And my wife won't let me use any of the products mentioned here, I'm not allowed to look younger than her


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## Infanteer (18 Jun 2019)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> lol...yes that must be it :-/   I have a crap load of grey in my beard and in no lighting do I look like I have a goatee... must be just me though :-/



It is you.


----------



## Matinee X (9 Feb 2020)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Blues = Patrol Dress = black-tie equivalent at least for armoured and sigs,I believe:
> 
> The pic is of A sigs captain PATROL UNDRESS. Dress blues are another category are a form of full dress number 1 ceremonials. Like the scarlet jacket in most other units. Unless grandfatered, in Canada only army reserve and Mil Col cadets wear patrol undress. Mess kit isncovered in the #2 dress. Things like facing and lace coloursusually translate from full dress ro mess dress. Ie PPCLI wear a scarlet jacket with French grey facings (cuffs and lapels). You will see grey lapels, cuffs in both #1B and 2.


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