# Re: JTF-2? What about 1?



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:50:08 *
I heard I is probably wrong that there are three jtf‘s one for navy, one 
for air force, and one for army, again I‘m not sure if this is correct, but 
its what I‘ve heard over the years,
Peter
>From: "Mason" 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: 
>Subject: JTF-2?  What about 1?
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:38 -0600
>
>Okay, Joint Task Force Two JTF-2, took over from the Mounties, back in 
>the
>early 90s, right, but what was Joint Task Force "One"?  Was it essentially
>the RCMP predecessor?  Or was there a JTF further back in recent Canadian
>military history?  It may seem like a dumb question, but it just dawned on
>me, besides, I‘m trying to find ways of procrastinating so I don‘t have to
>study for exams!
>
>Thanks,
>Mason
>--------------------------------------------------------
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Mason" <maseroni@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:11:16 -0600*
I don‘t think there would be three separate JTFs Navy, Army, and Air Force
basically because all three branches are amalgamated, partly to do away with
redundancies like that.  But thanks anyhow!
Mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter deVries 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> I heard I is probably wrong that there are three jtf‘s one for navy, one
> for air force, and one for army, again I‘m not sure if this is correct,
but
> its what I‘ve heard over the years,
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mason" 
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: 
> >Subject: JTF-2?  What about 1?
> >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:38 -0600
> >
> >Okay, Joint Task Force Two JTF-2, took over from the Mounties, back in
> >the
> >early 90s, right, but what was Joint Task Force "One"?  Was it
essentially
> >the RCMP predecessor?  Or was there a JTF further back in recent Canadian
> >military history?  It may seem like a dumb question, but it just dawned
on
> >me, besides, I‘m trying to find ways of procrastinating so I don‘t have
to
> >study for exams!
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Mason
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> >message body.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
_________
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 http://explorer.msn.com 
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jay Paton <jazscam@netscape.net>* on *13 Dec 00 11:37:51 PST*
I don‘t think the military "took over" the JTF from the RCMP as much as they
were disbanded, I beleive for blood lust.  So I have heard from some friends
here in cop school.  When they were the JTF back then, they were just the
"JTF" not JTF-1.  So who knows. 
"Mason"  wrote:
I don‘t think there would be three separate JTFs Navy, Army, and Air Force
basically because all three branches are amalgamated, partly to do away with
redundancies like that.  But thanks anyhow!
Mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter deVries 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> I heard I is probably wrong that there are three jtf‘s one for navy, one
> for air force, and one for army, again I‘m not sure if this is correct,
but
> its what I‘ve heard over the years,
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mason" 
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: 
> >Subject: JTF-2?  What about 1?
> >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:38 -0600
> >
> >Okay, Joint Task Force Two JTF-2, took over from the Mounties, back in
> >the
> >early 90s, right, but what was Joint Task Force "One"?  Was it
essentially
> >the RCMP predecessor?  Or was there a JTF further back in recent Canadian
> >military history?  It may seem like a dumb question, but it just dawned
on
> >me, besides, I‘m trying to find ways of procrastinating so I don‘t have
to
> >study for exams!
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Mason
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> >message body.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
_________
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 http://explorer.msn.com 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:25:28 -0700*
it had to do with funding -  JTF is a bit of a black hole in DND - it‘s
kinda scary the amount of money manpower and resources dedicated to the
organization
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Jay Paton [SMTP:jazscam@netscape.net]
> Sent:Wednesday, December 13, 2000 12:38 PM
> To:army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> Subject:Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> 
> I don‘t think the military "took over" the JTF from the RCMP as much as
> they
> were disbanded, I beleive for blood lust.  So I have heard from some
> friends
> here in cop school.  When they were the JTF back then, they were just the
> "JTF" not JTF-1.  So who knows. 
> 
> "Mason"  wrote:
> I don‘t think there would be three separate JTFs Navy, Army, and Air
> Force
> basically because all three branches are amalgamated, partly to do away
> with
> redundancies like that.  But thanks anyhow!
> 
> Mason
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter deVries 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:50 PM
> Subject: Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> 
> 
> > I heard I is probably wrong that there are three jtf‘s one for navy,
> one
> > for air force, and one for army, again I‘m not sure if this is correct,
> but
> > its what I‘ve heard over the years,
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Mason" 
> > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > >To: 
> > >Subject: JTF-2?  What about 1?
> > >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:38 -0600
> > >
> > >Okay, Joint Task Force Two JTF-2, took over from the Mounties, back
> in
> > >the
> > >early 90s, right, but what was Joint Task Force "One"?  Was it
> essentially
> > >the RCMP predecessor?  Or was there a JTF further back in recent
> Canadian
> > >military history?  It may seem like a dumb question, but it just dawned
> on
> > >me, besides, I‘m trying to find ways of procrastinating so I don‘t have
> to
> > >study for exams!
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Mason
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > >message body.
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________________
> __
> _________
> > Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
>  http://explorer.msn.com 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:53:18 EST*
Well, on this page with Canadian SOF units, pasts and present, it says that 
JTF is composed of servicemen from all services, or atleast it‘s open to them.
Also, from what I understand,this could very well be innacurate :  , JTF2 
was erected beacuse it was becoming too costly for the RCMP to run federal 
level anti-terrorism programs, and the military deals with those kind of 
situation on a more frequent basis, furthermore, militarians are generally 
better at operations wherein enemies are hunted, and then exterminated or 
captured, depending on the case.
                                        I think it would be very interesting 
to be a JTF2 commandoalthough I hear they don‘t like to be called commandos 
but, I think my interest would lie more in Special Force Op‘s rather than 
antiterrorism. I wonder really how much of each the team does?
                - Matt B.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Steve Kuervers" <skuervers@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:57:46 *
Hmmm... I don‘t necessarily agree with Derrick below... but I do have some 
answers:
As far as I know, the reason the RCMP got out of the business and no, they 
weren‘t called JTF back then, was that it was bloody expensive.  Remember 
the RCMP get overtime and danger pay, etc, while soldiers don‘t.
A JTF soldier probably gets the same pay as a non-JTF soldier, unless 
deployed overseas, when he‘d get the same pay as a non-JTF soldier deployed 
in the same place.
I believe the reason JTF-2 is named JTF-2, is because of the CF Joint HQ 
that existed at the time... which was called Joint Task Force.  The dual 
names would have been confusing.
In the big picture, JTF-2 under military control is probably pretty 
inexpensive.
Steve
>From: Derrick Forsythe 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘" 
>Subject: RE: JTF-2? What about 1?
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:25:28 -0700
>
>it had to do with funding -  JTF is a bit of a black hole in DND - it‘s
>kinda scary the amount of money manpower and resources dedicated to the
>organization
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:Jay Paton [SMTP:jazscam@netscape.net]
> > Sent:Wednesday, December 13, 2000 12:38 PM
> > To:army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> > Subject:Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> >
> > I don‘t think the military "took over" the JTF from the RCMP as much as
> > they
> > were disbanded, I beleive for blood lust.  So I have heard from some
> > friends
> > here in cop school.  When they were the JTF back then, they were just 
>the
> > "JTF" not JTF-1.  So who knows.
> >
> > "Mason"  wrote:
> > I don‘t think there would be three separate JTFs Navy, Army, and Air
> > Force
> > basically because all three branches are amalgamated, partly to do away
> > with
> > redundancies like that.  But thanks anyhow!
> >
> > Mason
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter deVries 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> >
> >
> > > I heard I is probably wrong that there are three jtf‘s one for navy,
> > one
> > > for air force, and one for army, again I‘m not sure if this is 
>correct,
> > but
> > > its what I‘ve heard over the years,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mason" 
> > > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > >To: 
> > > >Subject: JTF-2?  What about 1?
> > > >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:38 -0600
> > > >
> > > >Okay, Joint Task Force Two JTF-2, took over from the Mounties, back
> > in
> > > >the
> > > >early 90s, right, but what was Joint Task Force "One"?  Was it
> > essentially
> > > >the RCMP predecessor?  Or was there a JTF further back in recent
> > Canadian
> > > >military history?  It may seem like a dumb question, but it just 
>dawned
> > on
> > > >me, besides, I‘m trying to find ways of procrastinating so I don‘t 
>have
> > to
> > > >study for exams!
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Mason
> > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > >message body.
> > >
> > >
> > 
>__________________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > _________
> > > Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
> >  http://explorer.msn.com 
> > >
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> > >
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> > message body.
> >
> >
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> > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
> >  http://home.netscape.com/webmail 
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:41:31 -0800*
When it was run by the RCMP, it was known as SERT....special emergency
response team.  It was a Nationally selected team, for hostage situations.
It supplemented the local RCMP ERT teams...Emer. response team
As to why it was changed to Military, I‘m sure it was a political decision,
based on the events of the time.
The name is a puzzler, but I know the military does not always number units
sequentially, for intelligence purposes.  The Navy has frigates that are
numbered 300  , and we know they don‘t have that many ships....
More than likely it is because of a coffee stain on the original press
release, causing a compounded error.
With much humor
Chimo
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:05:35 EST*
Out damn spot!  hehe
matt b.
humour, Dave, humour!
jk
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:41:39 -0800*
sorry, American spell check......oops
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 4:06 PM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
Out damn spot!  hehe
matt b.
humour, Dave, humour!
jk
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:40:08 -0500*
--------------40A1AE549AF98B2BC684A9BB
Nah
Joint Task Force 2 monthly environmental allowance
less than 5 years
Hazard Level 1
368
Level II
671
Level III
1067
More than 5 years
Level I
428
Level II
729
Level III
1132
                                               Steve Kuervers wrote:
> Hmmm... I don‘t necessarily agree with Derrick below... but I do have some
> answers:
>
> As far as I know, the reason the RCMP got out of the business and no, they
> weren‘t called JTF back then, was that it was bloody expensive.  Remember
> the RCMP get overtime and danger pay, etc, while soldiers don‘t.
>
> A JTF soldier probably gets the same pay as a non-JTF soldier, unless
> deployed overseas, when he‘d get the same pay as a non-JTF soldier deployed
> in the same place.
>
> I believe the reason JTF-2 is named JTF-2, is because of the CF Joint HQ
> that existed at the time... which was called Joint Task Force.  The dual
> names would have been confusing.
>
> In the big picture, JTF-2 under military control is probably pretty
> inexpensive.
>
> Steve
>
> >From: Derrick Forsythe 
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘" 
> >Subject: RE: JTF-2? What about 1?
> >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:25:28 -0700
> >
> >it had to do with funding -  JTF is a bit of a black hole in DND - it‘s
> >kinda scary the amount of money manpower and resources dedicated to the
> >organization
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:       Jay Paton [SMTP:jazscam@netscape.net]
> > > Sent:       Wednesday, December 13, 2000 12:38 PM
> > > To: army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> > > Subject:    Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> > >
> > > I don‘t think the military "took over" the JTF from the RCMP as much as
> > > they
> > > were disbanded, I beleive for blood lust.  So I have heard from some
> > > friends
> > > here in cop school.  When they were the JTF back then, they were just
> >the
> > > "JTF" not JTF-1.  So who knows.
> > >
> > > "Mason"  wrote:
> > > I don‘t think there would be three separate JTFs Navy, Army, and Air
> > > Force
> > > basically because all three branches are amalgamated, partly to do away
> > > with
> > > redundancies like that.  But thanks anyhow!
> > >
> > > Mason
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Peter deVries 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: JTF-2? What about 1?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I heard I is probably wrong that there are three jtf‘s one for navy,
> > > one
> > > > for air force, and one for army, again I‘m not sure if this is
> >correct,
> > > but
> > > > its what I‘ve heard over the years,
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Mason" 
> > > > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > >To: 
> > > > >Subject: JTF-2?  What about 1?
> > > > >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:38 -0600
> > > > >
> > > > >Okay, Joint Task Force Two JTF-2, took over from the Mounties, back
> > > in
> > > > >the
> > > > >early 90s, right, but what was Joint Task Force "One"?  Was it
> > > essentially
> > > > >the RCMP predecessor?  Or was there a JTF further back in recent
> > > Canadian
> > > > >military history?  It may seem like a dumb question, but it just
> >dawned
> > > on
> > > > >me, besides, I‘m trying to find ways of procrastinating so I don‘t
> >have
> > > to
> > > > >study for exams!
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >Mason
> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > >message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >__________________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > _________
> > > > Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
> > >  http://explorer.msn.com 
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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--------------40A1AE549AF98B2BC684A9BB
 name="menicucci.vcf"
 filename="menicucci.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
adr:
version:2.1
notequoted-printable:THE SOLDIER=0D=0A                                     By Charles M. Province=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A             It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us=0D=0A             freedom of the press. =0D=0A=0D=0A             It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us=0D=0A             freedom of speech. =0D=0A=0D=0A             It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has=0D=0A             given us the freedom to demonstrate. =0D=0A=0D=0A             It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the=0D=0A             right to a fair trial. =0D=0A=0D=0A             It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves=0D=0A             under the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag,=0D=0A             who allows the protester to burn the flag. 
end:vcard
--------------40A1AE549AF98B2BC684A9BB--
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:17:11 -0500*
Actually JTF soldiers get Specialist pay I think "1".
Matt S
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Jason King" <jasonking@specialoperations.com>* on *Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:10:49 -0800*
If anyone ants to know how much extra pay the JTF2 guys get here‘s the DND web address... 
 http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/QR_O/vol3/Ch205_e.asp 
I think the Joint Task Force 2 name was chosen for intel reasons. In the U.S. there are SEAL Teams 1-5, SEAL Team 6, which is now called Development Group or DevGroup and handles counter-terrorism, and SEAL Team 8. No SEAL Team 7 exists, I it was to confuse the Soviets back during the Cold War into thinking there were more teams then there really were.
The old RCMP Special Emergency Response Teams SERT was disbanded dur to the fact that they trained to kill. But cops are there to protect and serve, they are not soldiers or trained killers. I think the there would be a more accurate reason though.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Nick Butler" <absolut_nick@hotmail.com>* on *Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:16:47 -0500*
In much the same way, the Russian Navy made a point of frequently changing the pennant numbers on their ships to try to confuse NATO navies about their fleet composition.
gtFrom: "Jason King" 
gtReply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
gtTo: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
gtSubject: RE: JTF-2? What about 1? 
gtDate: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:10:49 -0800 
gt 
gtIf anyone ants to know how much extra pay the JTF2 guys get here‘s the DND web address... 
gt 
gthttp://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/QR_O/vol3/Ch205_e.asp 
gt 
gtI think the Joint Task Force 2 name was chosen for intel reasons. In the U.S. there are SEAL Teams 1-5, SEAL Team 6, which is now called Development Group or DevGroup and handles counter-terrorism, and SEAL Team 8. No SEAL Team 7 exists, I it was to confuse the Soviets back during the Cold War into thinking there were more teams then there really were. 
gt 
gtThe old RCMP Special Emergency Response Teams SERT was disbanded dur to the fact that they trained to kill. But cops are there to protect and serve, they are not soldiers or trained killers. I think the there would be a more accurate reason though. 
gt 
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gtmessage body. 
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