# Loyalty VS Honesty



## Leisure (27 Jul 2011)

During training; suppose that the person in charge of us asks for a couple of volunteers (out of like 50 officers) to wash dishes or something...

Are ALL of us supposed to raise our hands to offer our service, faking excitement, and showing that we're willing to help Canda at all times  (even though I wouldn't really want to wash dishes, and would rather leave the task to one of my comrades) 
Or are we supposed to be honest and offer to help only if we want to and find the task fun


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## dangerboy (27 Jul 2011)

I can't really take this question seriouslly, but here are definitions from the Statement of Defence Ethics, DAOD 7023-1 Annex A:

Loyalty - We fulfil our commitments in a manner that best serves Canada, DND and the CF.

Honesty - We are truthful in our decisions and actions. We use resources appropriately and in the best interests of the Defence mission.


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## ModlrMike (27 Jul 2011)

Notwithstanding the unlikely nature of your scenario... ideally you should all raise your hands. The real world application is than none of you would... the leader would then select a couple of candidates.


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## aesop081 (27 Jul 2011)

Leisure said:
			
		

> and find the task fun



Never ask your troops to do something you are not willing to do yourself. That includes the things that are "not fun".

You want to be an officer, tell yourself tha a few times.


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## Leisure (27 Jul 2011)

@dangerboy I understood the meanings 
Suppose the superior asks "does anyone want to wash dishes"
Should I reply "yes", I would fulfil my commitments in a manner that best serves Canada, not being honest about actually WANTING to wash dishes.
If I be honest about not wanting to wash dishes; I fail to fulfil my commitments.

@ModlrMike, CDN Aviator;  TY, I get it  :nod:


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## the 48th regulator (27 Jul 2011)

Leisure said:
			
		

> @dangerboy I understood the meanings
> Suppose the superior asks "does anyone want to wash dishes"
> Should I reply "yes", I would fulfil my commitments in a manner that best serves Canada, not being honest about actually WANTING to wash dishes.
> If I be honest about not wanting to wash dishes; I fail to fulfil my commitments.
> ...




What I would have done is ask who had a driver's license.  Those that put up their hands, I would tell them to drive their asses over to the dishes, and wash them.

It helps with those that pick and chose what they want to do.  I the leader choose, and give you the illusion that you chose.

dileas

tess


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## Journeyman (27 Jul 2011)

Leisure said:
			
		

> I get it  :nod:


I'm having doubts


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Jul 2011)

You'll find many things in the military that you don't want to do, but need doing. Get used to it. An officer should lead by example.

If you're having a moral dilemma over something so simple. you're already in trouble.

If you're serious, that should satisfy you. If you're trolling, you'll find out shortly that we don't have much tolerance for that sort of thing here.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Michael OLeary (27 Jul 2011)

Don't dismiss any mundane task as something that isn't important. Many such tasks still need to be done, need to be done correctly, and need to be done by the available people - even if they are all (technically) overqualified for the task if it were a primary responsibility. Those tasks are simply part of "the job" at that point in your career.  By all means, be honest and don't volunteer to wash dishes. Others might volunteer or, if not, you will have an equal opportunity to get volunteered by the supervisor. Just don't complain when you play the same game and lose, perhaps getting picked for digging a new latrine (or other even less attractive task) when those who volunteered to wash dishes got a free pass.


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## OldSolduer (27 Jul 2011)

Leisure said:
			
		

> During training; suppose that the person in charge of us asks for a couple of volunteers (out of like 50 officers) to wash dishes or something...
> 
> Are ALL of us supposed to raise our hands to offer our service, faking excitement, and showing that we're willing to help Canda at all times  (even though I wouldn't really want to wash dishes, and would rather leave the task to one of my comrades)
> Or are we supposed to be honest and offer to help only if we want to and find the task fun



Take a long look in the mirror. 

I don't like what I've seen from you. Maybe you aren't suited for the CF. 

And I think a few are in agreement with me.


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## Towards_the_gap (27 Jul 2011)

Jim, we have sometimes found ourselves on opposite sides of ideological fences, but in this we are in agreement.


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## medicineman (27 Jul 2011)

Sounds like you don't think you'd like doing "menial" work, so here's something else to ask yourself - do you see yourself as being one of those folks that are quick to volunteer your troops for every crap job that comes up and have nothing to do with it beyond assigning the task (and making yourself look cool at the same time to your bosses)?  If you answer yes or even have to think about it, hope for your sake you live in a cubicle for the duration of your career.

MM


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## Hammer Sandwich (27 Jul 2011)

_IF_ you do manage to make it into the Forces, you'll hear a lot of addages to the tune of: _"Never be first, Never be last!"_, or, _"Never volunteer for anything!"_. I think these sayings are stupid.

Really, who gives a flying frig? If you stick your hand up when someones says, "Ok, I need five people", who cares?

It's not like they're picking people to "log-roll" over a field to check for mines......you might end up with a shit duty, but who cares?
All and all, it's a damn job, not all of it's gonna be cookies and roses. 

If anyone thinks those that never raise their hand can spend an entire career avoiding shit jobs, then those people are probably sorely mistaken.


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## PMedMoe (27 Jul 2011)

I once volunteered to serve a retirement mess dinner on a Friday night as all the Stewards in PAT Platoon had booked a weekend trip.

We got a great meal (better than mess hall food), a couple of free drinks from the guy retiring, and the following Friday off.  All for a few hours work.


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## RCDtpr (27 Jul 2011)

Do us a favour and change your attitude.  The CF has enough officers who are "too important" for tasks they deem below them because they are a member of the "gentlemans club."


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Jul 2011)

The point(s) has been made in spades. No need to drive it into the ground.

Milnet.ca Staff


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