# ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......



## thesean

I have Attention Deficit Disorder and someone i know in the military recently told me that I would be unable to join the combat arms with this. I do take medication daily for it, however, i can still do everything without it, jus not always as well. I was wondering if someone could give me a straight answer about whether or not i could actually get in as either a part of the infantry or armoured units. i dont really wanna go to the recruiter and ask him, jus incase he says that i cant get in with it. if i cant get in with ADD, then i was jus not gonna let it be known that i had it.


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## atticus

Sorry, I've misunderstood you a little bit: do you have it now or did you have it? But anyways, there was a soldier in my unit who had slight ADD and it was a combat arms unit and he remustered to something in the regs last time I seen him. This is something that you cannot hide however, because you do take two medicals and that would probably show up during one of them.


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## thesean

To clarify: I do have it right now. I do believe that I am still quite capable of functioning normaly without any medication, however I do know that the medication does help me in lots of stuff such as school.


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## Bob the builder

Give the recruiting center a call, ask them if it poses a problem....


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## spenco

I wouldn't get your hopes up, they won't like the fact that you are on medication at all.  It wont really help your chances having ADD, my advice to you is that you wait till you are able to get off your meds, wait 6 months then apply if you still desire.  This is probably what you will be told if you do apply.


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## Bert

Thesean

I don't think anyone here can answer your question.  As posted above, getting in touch with
the CFRC and continuing with your application process is the best thing to do.  Likely in
the medical part of the application process, the medical staff will ask you about certain
things and you may have to give your civilian doctor a form to fill out describing
your medical fitness.  Persevere and see how it goes.  Good luck.


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## George

If i have adhd...but havn't taking any meds for it well i stilll be able to join?


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## Bruce Monkhouse

No one here can answer that question for you, thats between you, your doctor and your recruiter.
Bruce


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## ChopperHead

For the medical would it matter if someone has attention deficit disorder. Like is that something thats ok and u can still pass if u have that.

thanx


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## Copper_Sunrise

ChopperHead said:
			
		

> For the medical would it matter if someone has attention deficit disorder. Like is that something thats ok and u can still pass if u have that.
> 
> thanx



I think that is something you have to take up with the med staff.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22352.0.html


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## ChopperHead

thanx thats link was all i needed to know


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## BrianDonohue

I don't know if this is the right place to put this but here goes. I'm currently enrolled as a student, working towards my trade. (SEM, they're sending me to school) Anyway, I've been noticing I'm having trouble focusing on my school work and a lot of other things that could be related to ADHD or something of the like. If that was something I brought up to the clinic could it affect my career? (Non combat trade) I mean, I have such a hard time focusing on anything school related and even laundry for example.


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## Fishbone Jones

You've taken the first step. You've recognized you may have a problem. If you believe you have a problem, and don't report it, and it manifests itself, you place yourself and possibly others in jeopardy. We're not doctors here, the only ones that can answer your questions are the appropriate med staff where you are. Anything else could be wildly out in left field or damaging. Good luck.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Nathan21

I received a letter in the mail today saying i don't meet medical standards due to being diagnosed with ADHD. Is there anything else I can do.. Or is that the final decision in essence?


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## apache2001

Nathan21 said:
			
		

> I received a letter in the mail today saying i don't meet medical standards due to being diagnosed with ADHD. Is there anything else I can do.. Or is that the final decision in essence?



I don't know much about your situation Nathan21 but I have come across the word ADHD before when I needed information regarding my medical.  Search for "ADHD".  Good luck.


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## kincanucks

Nathan21 said:
			
		

> I received a letter in the mail today saying i don't meet medical standards due to being diagnosed with ADHD. Is there anything else I can do.. Or is that the final decision in essence?



Go talk to the medical person at your CFRC/D and they can advise you.


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## Fishbone Jones

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Go talk to the medical person at your CFRC/D and they can advise you.



There's your answer.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Infantry18

Has anyone heard of someone failing their medical due to having A.D.H.D?


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## S.Simpson

Just thought I'd reply to this, because I had a similar situation,

However... I didn't have ADHD anymore... so you're wondering, what the hell am I talking about then?... Well

I thought I still had ADHD from before, they didn't fail me, they just asked for a psychological assessment, to see if my ADHD would have an impact on training... they deemed it wouldn't(Mostly because I didn't have it anymore).

Perhaps yours is severe... I don't know, but it really shouldn't give you a problem. Unless I'm stupid, and it does?


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## Infantry18

Haha Thank you


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Yup.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79323.0.html

If you use the search function you will find more info on this subject.


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## HItorMiss

Sorry what was the question.....

Yeah so as long as you can...

Sorry there was a fly anyway

so yeah like control you know you should be....  ;D


Damn I am a prick!


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## S.Simpson

Yes...

Yes you are.


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## Infantry18

hahahaha Thanks for that too I guess


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## OldSolduer

Here is our next task: Change this light bulb.

Let's go for ice cream....


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## dh101

First i must say i did search and found nothing pertaining to what i was looking for
I have ADHD, it is very mild. I have been in Army Cadets for 3 years. my ADHD does not affect my ability to learn or to pay attention. I am on medication that i have been on sense i was about 5. I applied for the reserves, when i do my medical do they ask if you are on any medications and will they deny me because of the medicine i am on, considering it will not affect my ability to do my job, and considering that i have been in army cadets for 3 years which means that i excel in the type of training such as drill and leadership. I do well in school getting 80-90% in all my marks. 
If they do not ask during my medical should i mention it?
what is the policy for medication? 
let me make not that the medication is not ritalin
Thanks


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## aesop081

dh101 said:
			
		

> when i do my medical do they ask if you are on any medications



They will ask and you WILL tell them.



> and will they deny me because of the medicine i am on,



They can but that is for the CF to determine based on your condition. 



> considering it will not affect my ability to do my job,



How do you know ? 



> and considering that i have been in army cadets for 3 years which means that i excel in the type of training such as drill and leadership.



Yeah...cadets are the same thing as the CF but without the guns, bombs, and many other things that kill.





> If they do not ask during my medical should i mention it?



Yes.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

And thats all the answers a website can give you, next step is yours.

Good luck.


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## dh101

Medical Appeal Due to Medication & ADHD

Today I received my PFO letter in the mail saying that I was not 'fit for service' because of ADHD and the medication I take. I did get a letter during my medical exam that my doctor had to fill out and everything on the form that I was given was all put as fit to do the activities by my doctor, so why are they saying that I am not fit? Is there any way to appeal this decision and if I were to stop taking my medication after discussing it with my doctor and deciding it is the best option could I be accepted, or would they deny me again because I took medication in the past?
If there is an appeal process how do I appeal the decision?

Thanks


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## PMedMoe

You'd have to check with the medical people at the CFRC regarding the requirements.  IIRC, people with epilepsy have to be medication-free _and_ seizure-free for a certain period of time before they are eligible for enrollment.  If you _have_ to take medication for something (e.g. insulin for diabetes), you will not be eligible to join.  It doesn't matter that you are "fit" to do the activities.  The reason is, if you were out in the middle of nowhere and lost or ran out of your medication, what would happen?

As far as going off your meds, that's only something your doctor can decide.  I would imagine you would have to be medication _and_ symptom free for a certain period of time.


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## medicineman

Just because your civilian physician feels your fit for military service doesn't make you so - the military decides on your fitness.  If you wish to appeal this, I'd suggest trying to get a letter from a specialist, ie a psychiatrist, that can attest to knowing how well you functioned pre-medication, after and what the prognosis would be without it at this point in time and have that sent to the RMO.  Another option would be to go off your medication under supervision of your physician/psychiatrist and see how you do without it and after a suitable time, reapply (a year at least IIRC).  Still no guarantees though.

Cheers.

MM


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## dh101

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> The reason is, if you were out in the middle of nowhere and lost or ran out of your medication, what would happen?



The thing about the medication that I take is that if I did not have or was unable to take my medication I would still be able to function, the medication I take isn't something that I need or I will die or not be able to function.


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## PMedMoe

dh101 said:
			
		

> The thing about the medication that I take is that if I did not have or was unable to take my medication I would still be able to function, the medication I take isn't something that I need or I will die or not be able to function.



Are you sure about that?  How long have you been taking the medication?  How do you act (or react) when not on it?  To be blunt, if you don't *need* it, why are you taking it?  Not saying you would die without it, however, depending on how severe your ADHD is, you could act quite different when not on the meds.  My daughter's half-sister has it and I have seen first-hand a difference of night and day in her behavior when on or not on medication, particularly how much longer it takes to work when she doesn't get it by a certain time.  There are certain conditions where one can go for long periods of time without meds and have no physical or behavioral problems (e.g. I have an under-active thyroid but missing several days - up to three weeks - of medication has no effect on me).

It is up to the RMO to decide who is acceptable for CF service.  Take medicineman's advice, he would certainly have a better idea than I would.


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## medicineman

Moe beat me to the punch - someone seems to think you required the medication to go about daily life in a proper manner.  When we say function, we mean in a productive manner.  If you're forgetful without your meds or lose focus easily or have bad impulse control, well you'd be functioning, but not at the level we'd need you to.   Those are the concerns - however, they really are between you, your doc(s) and the RMO to sort out.

MM


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## Armymedic

Basically, its "our" club. "We" decide who gets to join it. If "we" decide you don't fit in, then it is up to you to prove that you do.

In your case, get off the meds for a year or so (ADHD rarely persists into adulthood) and reapply, as MM suggested.


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## McCurdy526

I am currently waiting for spots to open in April, and I have ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD 3 years ago. That was when I was 14. It took a lot of time for the Medics in Toronto to accept my doctor's note on me having ADHD back in December 2009. What I did, I weened off of the Concerta (methylphenidate), took 1 pill every other day, every 3 days, once a week. Then I stopped. My doctor kept up to date with my activities and what-not, and I am all set. 

I have been off my medication a full 2 months, with great success!

ADHD and ADD are being thrown around a lot these days.

And about the CF medical standards, I think they are right. I have no objection to their Medical Standards. I remember getting a letter in late November saying I was not Medically fit for the CF due to my Medication.  :-\ "Well that's not that damn fair to me." 

So, I stayed determined to join the CF. I didn't stray off nor become discouraged. I called the Medics in Toronto and asked them if there was ANYTHING I could do to become medically fit. They said I needed an official letter from my doctor saying that I am excellent when I am off my medication.

It had never made so much sense before in my life. So that's what I did. I got a letter from my doctor saying that I was going to be taken off of my medication. I faxed that to Toronto and they replied saying I needed to be off my medication for *AT LEAST* 3 weeks. I said to myself, "Ok, fine. Let's do this."   

I waited about 22-23 days and went to see my doctor. I got an updated letter from my doctor saying I was all clear for medication; I am doing just fine. I faxed that to the Medics in Toronto and I got a phone-call saying it got sent up the pipe to Ottawa. 

(All of these events happened from Late November 2009 to December 23rd, 2009)

January 21st, 2010. I receive a letter from RMO Ottawa Medical Officer saying, "I am pleased to inform you that you now meet the common medical requirements for both the Reserve and Regular Forces."

I was overjoyed, and now I wait until April for Infantry Positions to see if I can get into the Reserves.

P.S. I originally signed up for a Military Co-op at my school, but I did not make it due to position cuts. I decided to see if I could join the Reserves  - Infantry without the co-op.

Cheers,
Zach McCurdy, Age 17
Canadian Forces Applicant


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## ModlrMike

Congratulations on being accepted. I suggest though that you change the title of your post... it appears that the problem was not "a common ADHD problem with the CF"...

The CF does not have a problem with ADHD. If you're on ADHD medication, you won't be accepted; no problem.

Perhaps "A common condition: ADHD, and how I overcame and fixed it." would be more accurate.


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## McCurdy526

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Congratulations on being accepted.



Correction: I have not been accepted yet; My Recruiter called me a while ago, letting me know that I did not make the co-op. I then proceeded to e-mail her asking if I could join the Reserves - Infantry since I didn't make the co-op. 

I later got a reply back saying that I should contact her in April, as she would know if there will be any positions available then.

Cheers,
Zach McCurdy, Age 17
Canadian Forces Applicant


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## BornToServe

Hey thanks for posting this. Way to not let something this minor hold you back man. Im kind of in the same situation as you. Im 18 waiting for infantry to open as well. Good luck to you,

jordan.


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## Blake_331

Actually I have a question regarding just this. 
I'm applying for ROTP, I did the interview, medical exam, and what not. I got the same letter, it told me I needed to be off ritalin for 6months from Dec. 09. 
Now, I'm in my third year of university, I have had no problem being off the medication, and I know I'm going to have to spend an extra year here.. that isn't the problem. I plan on having the letter from my doctor sent in at the beginning of May, I'll go and update him after exams and have him write up a letter... 
So, first, is it ok that I am sending this letter in a little early? Also, where am I sending this exactly, to the local recruiting center, or to Ottawa? Finally, assuming they get the letter by the end of May, assuming I am accepted into the program, will I be doing basic training this summer, or will it be too late?


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## tk_01

Congratulations.


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## kadrury

Unfortunatley I totally disagree. I am a military member with ADHD. I am an adult. My docotr sees high number of adult military members a week that have adhd. It is not a true statment to say that adhd rarely persists into adult. Actually it is the exact opposite.


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## ModlrMike

kadrury said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I totally disagree. I am a military member with ADHD. I am an adult. My doctor sees high number of adult military members a week that have adhd. It is not a true statement to say that adhd rarely persists into adult. Actually it is the exact opposite.


ADHD is a "spectrum" disorder with a wide left and right of arc. Those folks like yourself are likely at the lesser end of the spectrum and are therefore fit to serve. Besides, each case is judged on its own circumstances. Just because one person has some disorder and is allowed to serve, doesn't mean all are.


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## Armymedic

Kadrury, 
You are correct, the condition persists (60% continue through adulthood). 

My error.


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## kadrury

Quote: ADHD is a "spectrum" disorder with a wide left and right of arc. Those folks like yourself are likely at the lesser end of the spectrum and are therefore fit to serve. Besides, each case is judged on its own circumstances. Just because one person has some disorder and is allowed to serve, doesn't mean all are. 


As I said before many adults in the forces have ADHD. Most of us, the ones that I know, were diagnosed after enrolling. And the few that was diagnosed prior to enrolling have had no issues. According to the base surgeon on the base I serve at, someone can not be released due to the fact that they adhd. They can't even be released because they take medication. 

I bet you put 20 guys in a room and at least 55-60% of them have adhd. You could be working with your best friend and you would never know. 

In my opinion the military is the best job for someone with adhd. And if anyone tells me diffrent, you can come talk to me.


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## gcclarke

kadrury said:
			
		

> Quote: ADHD is a "spectrum" disorder with a wide left and right of arc. Those folks like yourself are likely at the lesser end of the spectrum and are therefore fit to serve. Besides, each case is judged on its own circumstances. Just because one person has some disorder and is allowed to serve, doesn't mean all are.
> 
> 
> As I said before many adults in the forces have ADHD. Most of us, the ones that I know, were diagnosed after enrolling. And the few that was diagnosed prior to enrolling have had no issues. According to the base surgeon on the base I serve at, someone can not be released due to the fact that they adhd. They can't even be released because they take medication.
> 
> I bet you put 20 guys in a room and at least 55-60% of them have adhd. You could be working with your best friend and you would never know.
> 
> In my opinion the military is the best job for someone with adhd. And if anyone tells me diffrent, you can come talk to me.



Really? Because while I don't have access to the full text, wikipedia cites this study stating that it is estimated that a mere 4.6% of American adults are living with ADHD. 

As for the "someone cannot be released due to the fact that they have ADHD quote, I would imagine that would very much so depend upon the severity of the disorder. Should someone with mild ADHD manage to get in, and it for some reason becomes much more severe, to the point where it impacts your ability to do your job well, I very much so doubt that there would be anything preventing them from being given a medical release.


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## kadrury

The military tries to keep you in notkick you out!


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## medicineman

The operative word is "tries" - just like any spectrum of disease, there can come a time that, despite medication and therapy, you become a liability, and when that happens, we have start showing/nudging/shoving people to the door.  No they can't kick you out for having ADHD in or of itself - however, if you start having behavioural issues that become administrative or disciplinary problems or your follow up requirements become too onerous, you could be released under administratrive, disciplinary or medical articles.  And yeah, I do know people in the service with ADHD, and I've also seen the results of letting people in with it that, despite medication, shouldn't have been enrolled.

MM


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## kadrury

So your telling me, even if those people were on medication they shouldnt be enrolled. These posts jusst prove how very little all of you know about adhd. Everyone seems to look at it like its the black plague but little do you all know there is so many pluses to having it. But hey who I am to tell anyone how to think. I am just advocating for the service members who have adhd and are learning how to balance the illness and their everyday lives.


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## George Wallace

kadrury said:
			
		

> So your telling me, even if those people were on medication they shouldnt be enrolled. These posts jusst prove how very little all of you know about adhd. Everyone seems to look at it like its the black plague but little do you all know there is so many pluses to having it. But hey who I am to tell anyone how to think. I am just advocating for the service members who have adhd and are learning how to balance the illness and their everyday lives.



Just clarify for me one more time; who are you advocating for?

     a.  People trying to enroll in the CF; or

     b.  People who are currently Serving Members.


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## kadrury

both


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## gcclarke

kadrury said:
			
		

> So your telling me, even if those people were on medication they shouldnt be enrolled. These posts jusst prove how very little all of you know about adhd. Everyone seems to look at it like its the black plague but little do you all know there is so many pluses to having it. But hey who I am to tell anyone how to think. I am just advocating for the service members who have adhd and are learning how to balance the illness and their everyday lives.



Well… if someone requires medication in order to be able to function well enough to do their job, then no they should not be enrolled. Because, as mentioned before, what happens when you're deployed and run out? If someone's condition is mild enough that they can still manage, without medication, to function in an acceptable manner, then I don't see it as a problem. And if they then use medication to improve their condition even further, all the better for them.

You're advocating for service members who have ADHD, and that's all well and good. I'm advocating for the service, who must ensure that when the sticky brown stuff hits the fan, every single CF member must be able to react accordingly, whether they're on their meds or not. 

So yes, a prospective enrolee should be required to demonstrate that they are capable of performing whatever duties they may be assigned without the aid of medication. This is obviously a non-issue for people who were diagnosed with ADHD after they enrolled, such as yourself, as they were obviously able to prove they were sufficiently medically fit without the aid of medication for a disease they didn't know they had.


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## mariomike

kadrury said:
			
		

> In my opinion the military is the best job for someone with adhd.



I'll take your word for it. But, may I ask, why is that?

FYI, if interested:
http://www.cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/English/2007-026.html


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## kadrury

Because of the discipline, organization, and standards required by all CF members. It is these things that help service members with adhd. Keeps them on a path and aroutine required by them.


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## mariomike

kadrury said:
			
		

> Because of the discipline, organization, and standards required by all CF members. It is these things that help service members with adhd. Keeps them on a path and aroutine required by them.



I have always considered the CF to be a great full or part-time career for anyone, for the reasons you mention. 
Thank-you for giving me your personal perspective.


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## medicineman

kadrury said:
			
		

> So your telling me, even if those people were on medication they shouldnt be enrolled. These posts jusst prove how very little all of you know about adhd. Everyone seems to look at it like its the black plague but little do you all know there is so many pluses to having it. But hey who I am to tell anyone how to think. I am just advocating for the service members who have adhd and are learning how to balance the illness and their everyday lives.



Number 1: I have to advocate for the WHOLE CF when I do enrollment or other medicals - full stop.  As gc stated, if you cannot function to a high degree without the benefit of medication or require frequent follow up, you won't be enrolled.  If we find you to have it later on in life, we'll do our best to help you manage it, but if you fall into that group that doesn't respond well to treatment, then like other problems, we have to consider what's best for the CF and start the medical ball rolling.

Number 2:  While you and others may in fact be quite high functioning, and many are, for every one of you, there are others that have poor impulse control, little attention span or attention to details required in this job despite treatment.  ADHD is a spectrum and there are many people within that spectrum that shouldn't be doing this job.  They become discipline problems and or administrative burdens that take for ever and a day to get rid of.  While the discipline and routine may work for some, there are others I've had to deal with over the years that had no business being in the military.  That's why if they're identified as having ahd a diagnosis of ADHD/ADD an assessment from the treating clinician is required - I've seen many turned off by the RMO because of the things I've already mentioned.

BTW -  It's nice that you want to advocate for your peeps, but the CF isn't here to cater to every special interest group there is out there - as our sand box is small, we're a little particular about who gets to play in it.

MM


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## Armymedic

kadrury said:
			
		

> Because of the discipline, organization, and standards required by all CF members. It is these things that help service members with adhd. Keeps them on a path and aroutine required by them.



And what happens to the person when the world goes to shit, (as it so often seems to do, especially on operations) and said person can not cope with the constant changes, stresses and needs for improvisation?

I have a little card here that says: "Recipe for Disaster".


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## garneau26

Hi,
I know there are quite a few posts about ADD here, they mostly all say that you need to get a letter from your doctor saying that you no longer need medication, one post said he needed to be off-med for 6 weeks, another said it was 3 weeks for him and another one for 6 months, not sure about those but anyways, *I'd like to know more about the time you have to be off-medication, any personnal stories would be really appreciated*
Thanks


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## kadrury

I am in the military and have adhd. pm me if you want more info.


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## the 48th regulator

Alrighty Folks this is......

What?  What?!?  I have no time for this I am out of here, you guys bore me. 

garneau26, you try the recruiter yet?  I hear he has some neat info, that can help.  I think.

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff


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## TheNewTeddy

Before I begin, I'd like to note that I used google to try to find clear answers (without success, and after that) I signed up here. I've also read the Merged Depression Thread and a  different, locked, thread. Neither provided the specific answers that I'm looking for.

I will try to be general so that anyone else happening upon the thread can find answers from it as well.

I am wondering what the absolute no-no's are, in terms of mental health and joining the CF. What mental health issues will get you an immediate refusal; which will limit you as to what you can do? The two answers I've gleamed from the other threads is that if you take anti-depressants, you likely wont be able to go into those situations where you may end up without medication for some time. The second, and post useful thing I read is that if you do suffer from depression or mental issues, you should give serious consideration to your own abilities, and ask if you truly want to join the forces.

My question, in general, is then what things limit you and how. 

My specifics are as follows, but please don't get so tied up on the specifics that the thread becomes useless to anyone else who, like myself, happened upon this place looking for answers  :-\

I have depression. My psychiatrist prescribes me regular anti-depressants. I also take Ritalin. The reason for that is a bit more confusing. When I was little, a psychologist told my mother (without any testing) that I had Dysgraphia. In University, the psychologist told me (again without testing) that the symptoms of what I thought were Dysgraphia were part of ADHD, and prescribed the Ritalin. She also told me I was Bi-Polar. Upon moving to Toronto, my family doctor told me that I likely had OCD, Clinical Depression, and Aspergers. My current psychiatrist as told me, flat out, that I don't have Aspergers; he says "You have Autism."

So I don't really know what I do or do not have. Dysgraphia, Bi-Polar, OCD, ADHD, Clinical Depression, Autism. I don't know if I actually have any of these, or, if I have all of these. I'm wondering which of these might impact me if I were to decide to join the CF.

Thanks in advance.


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## Nauticus

I am not a CF medical professional, so you should contact the recruiting centre to get official, direct answers yourself.

I do know that the CF does require a certain amount of time between using prescribed medications and applying to ensure that you can operate without the use of those medications. If you cannot operate effectively without medication, that may or may not affect your application. 

My opinion is that it's good that you wish to serve your country, but at the same time, you have to gauge your capabilities in serving your country. Every job and position may find himself in a potential combat situation, without medication. Every job is a soldier first.

After you gauge that, speak to a recruiter and find out first-hand what, if any, opportunities exist and, if they do, what you must do to achieve them.


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## TheNewTeddy

Humm. Thanks. I am debating going down to the recruiting centre and poking about (asking questions). There are a lot of questions I have, and it'd be good to get some answers to some of them!


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## m.k

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but having just completed my medical, I was required to get my physician to sign a form stating I did not have ADHD. I was never diagnosed and have never been on medication, but if the circumstances were different, I was informed that I would likely be disqualified.


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## ModlrMike

TheNewTeddy said:
			
		

> So I don't really know what I do or do not have. Dysgraphia, Bi-Polar, OCD, ADHD, Clinical Depression, Autism. I don't know if I actually have any of these, or, if I have all of these. I'm wondering which of these might impact me if I were to decide to join the CF.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Firstly, I'm not going to speak for the recruiting system. However, based on my experience, all - with the possible exception of the dysgraphia and OCD depending on their severity, would likely disqualify you. That being said, I'm not part of recruiting, so my vote doesn't count.

The chief thing you have to accept is that everyone gets to apply, not everyone gets to join. That may sound harsh, but it's the reality. Don't delude yourself that your application will be successful because you wish it so.

Good luck.


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## ABlock

Hi all,


I have a problem on my hands. Basically, because "it could have helped in uni", I took ADHD pills for a year during university. Then I dropped it because it didn't bring the effects I hoped for. Now I have to get this form filled by a MD : a part is clinical (when I took it, etc), and a part is about behavior.


How do these standards work? I have no clue what the possible consequences can be. What happens if I can prove that I didn't take any meds for the last 4 years but some parts of the behavior-oriented questionnaire are checked? Can it block some specific jobs, like jobs requiring attention to details?

BTW, I did find the official "medical standards" (http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/default-eng.asp) but it doesn't detail what's going on with ADHD. Are the ADHD medical standards written somewhere?



Also, who will have access to this in the future? Might my on-the-field superior get to know about it? Is this medical part only to get a "good to go" stamp, or can it be brought back in my face even though I don't apply to become pilot or something?



Thanks for anyone's help

ABlock
 :camo:


----------



## medicineman

To answer a couple of things, only the basic stuff is public as far as medical standards - keeps people from trying to circumvent them by lying or fraud (not pointing fingers but have run into it lots).  The standards for both enrollment and retention are also reviewed annually and a big manual comes out...but you won't find that on the public site.

As far as the medical and the information contained in it, well that is the beginning of your CF medical file that will follow you through your career - it's not a rubber stamp, it's to ensure medical fitness for enrollment as well as a baseline for your health throughout your service.  The only people with access are Health Services personnel directly involved with your care, so no, bosses aren't entitled to view the file or know the diagnoses contained on it.

The questionnaire - well ADHD is a behavioural disorder, so yeah, that's kind of important for the Recruit Medical Office to know about.  There is a baseline of what they'd consider to be acceptable behaviour and not and each person is judged as an individual based on how that assessment is written.  Before you go off and find a Doc in a Box to fill it out for you, you might notice a little thing at the bottom that says "How long has this person been under your care?" - if it reads "The last 30 minutes" (wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it or written it myself), the RMO will take that into consideration - and likely put your file into the "NFL" (Not F*&king Likely) basket OR send you letter saying they want a formal specialist letter.  Make sure it's the doc you know.

If you have detail issues, don't forget, all personnel in the CF have to meet certain basic safety standards, alot of which are detail oriented - weapons safety, safety around vehicles, ammo, ships and aircraft, etc, not to mention the routine aspects of what most jobs in the Service entail - so you might not be suitable for enrollment.  I'd prepare yourself for that now, because you just might get that letter in the mail.  And if that happens, it's not the end of the world, even if it seems like it.  If you really want the job, you can seek out therapy to help you work around your issues, but you yourself have to do that hard work - and if you're successful, you can reapply with that new assessment.

Anyhow, good luck.

MM


----------



## ABlock

[Sorry in advance - I'd be happy to put this into an existing thread, but the existing thread for this is locked]


Hi,

I have an ADHD case on my hands. I took the pills for a year so it's in the file.

I am worried since the behavioral questions are very subjective. Last time I met a shrink to assess something, I was more or less asked "Do you think that you're forgetting enough stuff to make so that pills might help? Yes? Alright... so here are pills." Now I'm going to be asked "Do you think that........? Yes/No?" Hell...! I don't wanna be wishy-washy.

Basically, I'm clearly not a manual kind of guy. I can miss things my construction work friends wouldn't miss, and they'd tell me "gosh! you stayed too long in university!" (- is that a problem?). Like anyone, I hope the CF can use my skills. How can I make so that whether boxes get ticked or not IS NOT a matter of which MD I meet?
Also, how can I help them evaluate whether or not the degree of my forgetfulness/whatever is clinical? (I'll give the MD examples alright, but I hardly see what more I can do...)


Also: No medical people know me. No ONE MD follows my case. I just go to the hospital if I actually have something, and then I leave. And the psychiatrist who met me is gone. If I get a paper saying "I've met this guy for 30 min", I've been told that my file will look silly - and I could get a "rejected" paper for it.


Then again, is it a problem if I stayed too long in universities?... Hell.. I hope not.



Thanks for your answers

ABlock


----------



## PMedMoe

I think medicineman pretty much answered your question(s) in the other thread.

Just to clarify:  When you say you're not a "manual" kind of guy, do you mean "manual" as in a booklet or "manual" as in hands on?  If it's the latter, you may not be suitable for the CF.


----------



## medicineman

If you're getting seen at a hospital, there is still a record there - ask to have a copy of the records of yoru visits.  Might cost a few bucks, but then there will be something that at least another person can interpret for you.

MM


----------



## kubota99

There's something I don't understand... Why would they even refuse someone with ADD? It's not like if they where crazy or something... 
Hell, us ADD's have been told all our ADD life that we're normal, bla bla bla, and now this? What a way to break a dream... 

So, now I would need to wait a whole year off meds, just to retry, and go through the whole process of application... All this because of medication to make me serious and not screw around, to make me pay a bit more attention in class... Basically to make me who I am not... 

So here I am told that I can't follow my dream, even if the whole selection process found that I was very suitable for enrolment, just because of ADD... How wonderfull!

This makes me mad, sad and so confused at the same time...


----------



## dapaterson

The question is not the specific condition, but rather the requirement for regular medication.  The military cannot guarantee that someone will always have access to their meds, nor proper storage for meds.


----------



## PMedMoe

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The question is not the specific condition, but rather the requirement for regular medication.  The military cannot guarantee that someone will always have access to their meds, nor proper storage for meds.



 :goodpost:

Exactly!!


----------



## kubota99

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The question is not the specific condition, but rather the requirement for regular medication.  The military cannot guarantee that someone will always have access to their meds, nor proper storage for meds.



That is totally understandable! But ADD isn't like cancer... 

Cancer, you don't have 5 options, it's just the single truth: you have it.... 

ADD, it depends on many different factors, and meds are usually totally unnecessary to normally function, well in my case... 

Lets say my parents hadn't decided to get me checked out when I was younger, what if my parents hadn't got me on those meds, what if, what if, what if... In my honest opinion, as soon as you ask yourself what if in a medical situation, and that it doesn't have anything to do to something like a broken bone (what if I hadn't jumped off the third floor type of stuff), it shouldn't restrict and add so much time to one's application... 

The only thing that is most probably make me get the letter saying that I'm unfit for the Forces, is that stupid sentence I said: "Oh I forgot to mention about this ADD stuff my parents got me diagnosed 5 years ago" If I hadn't said anything, he would of checked the "fit for service" box in his papers... ADD stroke once more...


----------



## ModlrMike

kubota99 said:
			
		

> That is totally understandable! But ADD isn't like cancer...
> 
> Cancer, you don't have 5 options, it's just the single truth: you have it....



Every case is judged individually. Even cases where two applicants have the same condition are viewed in isolation of each other, and can have different outcomes.



			
				kubota99 said:
			
		

> ADD, it depends on many different factors, and meds are usually totally unnecessary to normally function, well in my case...
> 
> Lets say my parents hadn't decided to get me checked out when I was younger, what if my parents hadn't got me on those meds, what if, what if, what if... In my honest opinion, as soon as you ask yourself what if in a medical situation, and that it doesn't have anything to do to something like a broken bone (what if I hadn't jumped off the third floor type of stuff), it shouldn't restrict and add so much time to one's application...
> 
> The only thing that is most probably make me get the letter saying that I'm unfit for the Forces, is that stupid sentence I said: "Oh I forgot to mention about this ADD stuff my parents got me diagnosed 5 years ago" If I hadn't said anything, he would of checked the "fit for service" box in his papers... ADD stroke once more...



So you're saying you would rather start your career having withheld vital information? A lie of omission is a lie just the same. Not the best foundation to begin with.


----------



## kubota99

medicineman said:
			
		

> BTW -  It's nice that you want to advocate for your peeps, but the CF isn't here to cater to every special interest group there is out there - as our sand box is small, we're a little particular about who gets to play in it.
> 
> MM



I don't understand how one can say that... The CF makes you sign a paper, saying you will never discriminate anyone for any reason what so ever, and here you are saying that the CF discriminate the ones who aren't "fit" at their eyes to play in the sandbox...

Let's look at it this way, let's say you have blue eyes, and that blue eyes make you talk a lot, and seem distracted once in a while, but that in fact you aren't really... and the CF don't take blue eyed persons, well just because blue eyed people take medication juste TO BE NORMAL. Don't tell me that's not discriminatory! You don't NEED to take the meds, you won't die without them, you'll be yourself! 

Anyways, I'm just so confused to why they don't take the time to see if yes in fact the ADHD is as bad as it sounds like. Some ADD's are as normal as non ADD's... They only talk a bit too much once in a while, and have sooooo many qualities non ADD's don't and will never have...


----------



## kubota99

Quote 1: Oh trust me I know that. 

Quote 2: I am not a liar, and never would I lie about myself. As a matter a fact, I did say the truth, and to be honest with you, if I wouldn't of wanted to say it, I still would have, I was raised in a way to not lie.


That being said, I still don't understand why ADHD is seen as such a bad thing...


----------



## Eye In The Sky

:  A tad bit late replying, or did you know the post you are getting your knickers in a knot about is from over 2.5 years ago?

Failing to meet entrance medical standards, for MILITARY service, is not discrimination.  The CF isn't Walmart.


----------



## George Wallace

kubota99 said:
			
		

> I don't understand how one can say that... The CF makes you sign a paper, saying you will never discriminate anyone for any reason what so ever, and here you are saying that the CF discriminate the ones who aren't "fit" at their eyes to play in the sandbox...
> 
> Let's look at it this way, let's say you have blue eyes, and that blue eyes make you talk a lot, and seem distracted once in a while, but that in fact you aren't really... and the CF don't take blue eyed persons, well just because blue eyed people take medication juste TO BE NORMAL. Don't tell me that's not discriminatory! You don't NEED to take the meds, you won't die without them, you'll be yourself!
> 
> Anyways, I'm just so confused to why they don't take the time to see if yes in fact the ADHD is as bad as it sounds like. Some ADD's are as normal as non ADD's... They only talk a bit too much once in a while, and have sooooo many qualities non ADD's don't and will never have...



Would you want to apply your same logic to a person who has Epileptic seizures and wants to be a pilot?


----------



## kubota99

It just sucks really bad that this happens... Especially to people who have dreams and all...

Buuut, that being said, an epileptic seizure isn't the same thing as ADD... It's like comparing a new haircut (ADD) to actually loosing hair because of bolding (seizure)...

*deleted content, because well it was just useless*


----------



## Eye In The Sky

kubota99 said:
			
		

> The only thing that is most probably make me get the letter saying that I'm unfit for the Forces, is that stupid sentence I said: "Oh I forgot to mention about this ADD stuff my parents got me diagnosed 5 years ago" If I hadn't said anything, he would of checked the "fit for service" box in his papers... ADD stroke once more...



Reference the text in yellow....it is not _quite_ that simple.  You don't have to believe me, but maybe you will believe this.

Queen's Regulations and Orders, Volume II, Chapter 103, Section 2 Services Offenses.

Specifically:

103.54 - FALSE ANSWER OR FALSE INFORMATION ON ENROLMENT


----------



## Eye In The Sky

We realize you are upset at the status of your application for the CF, it sucks.  But coming on here and arguing with forum members, well it isn't helping you any.  Think about it for a second, review some of your recent posts and ask yourself if what you are doing is helping your situation at all.

I suggest you relax some;  no one on this site is the reason your application was unsuccesful.  If you want help, why not ask for help from people on the appeal process, or "what options do I have from here?" kinds of questions.  Ranting and raving will change nothing.

 :2c:


----------



## kubota99

I think there's a misunderstanding here... 

I was always told that ADD wasn't a problem, and that bla bla bla, take this pill in the morning and you'll be like the others bla bla bla...

Now, the main reason I wrote "if i hadn't said anything" is that I thought it wasn't considered something medically important for CF... Then I told myself, wait you have prescription drug, so you should mention it, just so everything is in order...

And that's what I did... Never had I intended in lying, to top it off, when I wrote that, I might have been a bit ticked off by the fact that I just learnt all of this stuff at my medical exam this morning....

Anyways, I do not support, neither do I condone lying, lying to others is lying to yourself... And that's baaaad.


----------



## kubota99

You're totally correct on this one, I wanted information about specific stuff, and as a matter a fact, was a bit ticked off yes. 

Although my goal isn't to create an argument, I hate arguments, even if I create some here and there...

You sound like someone close in my family, makes me laugh quite a bit  ;D

Thanks for the  :2c:


----------



## Eye In The Sky

The post is info for you _and_ follow on readers, just so no one gets the idea that they can withold information, get in and nothing come of it after the fact.


----------



## Pieman

It's kind of funny, as I'm pretty sure a good percentage of people I worked with had ADD, ADHD, or some other blatant behavioral problem. Including one fellow who had serious autistic symptoms and made it through training. No one took notice till he got to the regiment and couldn't function.  In all,  some were not aware of their issues, or were aware but refused to be tested or treated for it.


----------



## kubota99

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The post is info for you _and_ follow on readers, just so no one gets the idea that they can withold information, get in and nothing come of it after the fact.



I'm kind of new to this whole forums thing... I'm usually more a reader than a poster  :snowman:



			
				Pieman said:
			
		

> It's kind of funny, as I'm pretty sure a good percentage of people I worked with had ADD, ADHD, or some other blatant behavioral problem. Including one fellow who had serious autistic symptoms and made it through training. No one took notice till he got to the regiment and couldn't function.  In all,  some were not aware of their issues, or were aware but refused to be tested or treated for it.



This is interesting... I mean I know so many guys and girls that I swear have attention problems or whatnot, but aren't tested for anything! ADD, ADHD is such a vast subject, information regarding those conditions differ from one to another


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Maybe you should just walk away from the keyboard for a bit, and come back when you have an idea of what your questions are.  But remember, nothing anyone says on here can change the decision made.

People might be able to offer advice on how you can appeal, if you can, etc.  There are retired and currently serving CF members who are experienced CF Health Services professionals.  They can offer advice, they can give you their opinion, but in the end, the person reviewing your file with all the facts is the one who will make the decision.

It is very easy to dig yourself into a hole in short order on this site, and I think you were headed there.  Relax.


----------



## Journeyman

I guess one of the symptoms is posting the same general thing over and over and over again. 

Maybe _next_ post, the Chief of Military Personnel or the Surgeon-General will be lurking on the site, and post, "oh, OK, you're in."

    :not-again:


----------



## kubota99

Yeah, well I have been thinking about what exactly are my options for the past half-hour, I'll try to ask the correct questions in the right sections if I do, and this is after speaking with my recruitment center! 

Oh, and thankfully people like you exist, self-control is something everyone has, but the tolerance isn't the same for everyone depending on the situation... Thanks for helping out, really, I mean it!  



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> :  A tad bit late replying, or did you know the post you are getting your knickers in a knot about is from over 2.5 years ago?
> 
> Failing to meet entrance medical standards, for MILITARY service, is not discrimination.  The CF isn't Walmart.



I hadn't seen that reply! Yeah, sorry for reviving the topic... And you're right about that... It's just that I find it so unfortunate that they filter ADD's and all the other issues, but hey, I can't imagine a soldier being distracted by a squirrel or something during combat...


----------



## kubota99

That made me smile 

I won't bother you guys about this particular subject anymore.

I'll go through all the necessary steps, THEN if nothing, but really when I say nothing, I mean nooooooothing at all works out for me and the CF,  I'll ask myself this simple question: Why not try somewhere else?


----------



## Pieman

> This is interesting... I mean I know so many guys and girls that I swear have attention problems or whatnot, but aren't tested for anything! ADD, ADHD is such a vast subject, information regarding those conditions differ from one to another



Yup, but what is the difference between being a normal teenager and a kid with ADD ? It's not so black and white. 

If ADD was really a problem then they would test people for it before they enter the military. However, if they did that I'm not sure how many applicants would be left. The reality is what was posted before, people who are diagnosed with it may require medication. Therefore it is a liability issue since they cannot guarantee people will get the medication they need. If you have ADD and are unaware of it, there is nothing to stop you from making it through the application process. So, ADD or ADHD itself  are not the stumbling block here, it is the diagnosis.


----------



## kubota99

Thank you for your answer! That makes much more sense to me now... Because if an applicant doesn't know he has ADD or whatnot, there is no way one can figure it out right away! 

So basically, I'll let the medics deal with my case, and make sure my doctor fills in the paperwork properly! I just have to cross my fingers and hope the best!


----------



## mld

kubota99 said:
			
		

> It's just that I find it so unfortunate that they filter ADD's and all the other issues, but hey, I can't imagine a soldier being distracted by a squirrel or something during combat...



I feel for you, I really do. I have been there and got that letter. I was an angry wreck. I don't have ADHD, but I was on two different heavy hitting tranquillizers for sleeping issues. I had my family doctor send in the letter saying I can function normally etc. But I was still rejected. That was exactly one year ago. So instead of being an e-thug, I got on board with a physician who was willing to oversee a safe and gradual taper off of the medication. I was once again a wreck (can't imagine I would have survived if that scenario played out in a hostile environment). But I went off of the medication and learned healthy sleep habits and how to cope with the stresses that would cause me to not sleep. I will be medication free (and totally healthy) for one year on December 30, and I start my basic training the end of Jan. 

So my advice to you is this: take this as an opportunity to push yourself to become healthy (mentally and physically) without being dependent on medications. You will feel better if you can do this. ADHD is manageable without meds (not always the best solution though). Yeah this has set you back a bit, but if you really want it - it is yours. You know what you have to do. Don't bother with appeal, just make the decision that you are going to rise above this and show people who you are and who you are capable of being.


----------



## kubota99

This made my day, and every single time I'll be faced to a rejection (if I get more than one), I'll come read your reply...

I think that this is going to allow me to finally get off the medication I'm currently on, as I don't really like the said meds... Personal stuff aside, thanks for the reply, really inspirational!


----------



## Jarnhamar

kubota99 said:
			
		

> Why would they even refuse someone with ADD? It's not like if they where crazy or something...





> All this because of medication to make me serious and not screw around



Are you trolling or do you really believe an environment with firearms, rocket launchers, explosives,  tanks, giant artillery guns, flying machines, medical components and heavy equipment isn't a big deal for someone with a condition that causes them to "screw around and not be serious"?


----------



## kubota99

Not trolling, dead serious... 

I totally agree that what you just said makes sense, but let's face it, I'm sure you like screwing around once in a while? 

No I wouldn't screw around in the CF, like, I used to screw around in some classes where teachers would screw around as well, and I wouldn't be serious enough in certain classes where I wasn't interested... That's what I mean by "screwing around and not being serious enough"...


----------



## Danjanou

kubota99 said:
			
		

> No I wouldn't screw around in the CF, like, I used to screw around in some classes where teachers would screw around as well, and I *wouldn't be serious enough in certain classes where I wasn't interested... *That's what I mean by "screwing around and not being serious enough"...



Yeah that should work out fine  :


----------



## the 48th regulator

kubota99 said:
			
		

> I don't understand how one can say that... The CF makes you sign a paper, saying you will never discriminate anyone for any reason what so ever, and here you are saying that the CF discriminate the ones who aren't "fit" at their eyes to play in the sandbox...
> 
> Let's look at it this way, let's say you have blue eyes, and that blue eyes make you talk a lot, and seem distracted once in a while, but that in fact you aren't really... and the CF don't take blue eyed persons, well just because blue eyed people take medication juste TO BE NORMAL. Don't tell me that's not discriminatory! You don't NEED to take the meds, you won't die without them, you'll be yourself!
> 
> Anyways, I'm just so confused to why they don't take the time to see if yes in fact the ADHD is as bad as it sounds like. Some ADD's are as normal as non ADD's... They only talk a bit too much once in a while, and have sooooo many qualities non ADD's don't and will never have...




DSM-IV criteria

The DSM-IV allows for diagnosis of the predominantly inattentive subtype of ADHD (under code 314.00) if the individual presents six or more of the following symptoms of inattention for at least six months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

    Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
    Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities
    Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
    Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
    Often has trouble organizing activities.
    Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period (such as schoolwork or homework).
    Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
    Is often easily distracted.
    Is often forgetful in daily activities.


I am glad for the discrimination!  God for bid someone experiencing these types of symptoms was protecting my freedom. Now back to my secret society where we wear robes, and burn effigies of ADD sufferers on a stick.....

dileas

tess


----------



## Eye In The Sky

For a second, I thought those were comments made by DS during the field portion of CAP  >


----------



## medicineman

kubota99 said:
			
		

> I don't understand how one can say that... The CF makes you sign a paper, saying you will never discriminate anyone for any reason what so ever, and here you are saying that the CF discriminate the ones who aren't "fit" at their eyes to play in the sandbox...
> 
> Let's look at it this way, let's say you have blue eyes, and that blue eyes make you talk a lot, and seem distracted once in a while, but that in fact you aren't really... and the CF don't take blue eyed persons, well just because blue eyed people take medication juste TO BE NORMAL. Don't tell me that's not discriminatory! You don't NEED to take the meds, you won't die without them, you'll be yourself!
> 
> Anyways, I'm just so confused to why they don't take the time to see if yes in fact the ADHD is as bad as it sounds like. Some ADD's are as normal as non ADD's... They only talk a bit too much once in a while, and have sooooo many qualities non ADD's don't and will never have...



The CF has the legal aurthority of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of this country, backed by Supreme Court of Canada decisions, to discriminate in hiring due to bona fide requirements for mental and physical fitness to do the job as determined by them. 

As for the "you'll be yourself" - I've seen folks with ADD be themselves by not taking their meds - and put themselves and others at risk at worst or became administrative burdens at best.

I was going to say something in the other thread you've been in, but I'll say it here and sorry I'm often blunt when I tell people things they don't want to hear, but here it is- you have a problem, the CF has determined that said problem does not meet their requirements for medical fitness, so you have to live with that OR prove to them that you are in fact able to function at the capacity required by the CF, in a safe manner to yourself and others.   

The burden of proof is on you...if you want to get in, do a trial of discontinuation of your medications if you're on any, work hard to control the behaviours that were considered problematic, then get reassessed by a health professional that knows you and reapply in a year.  If you really want this job, you'll have to do some hard work to get it.

As for something you mentioned in a previous thread, don't blame your ADD on getting you disqualified by mentioning it - your honesty saved you having release proceedings initiated if it was found out you lied on your application about not having any predisposing medical issues.

MM


----------



## kubota99

Ahhhh I feel like I'm digging my own grave by answering to this... 

But, I'm done with this topic and have spoken with people that made me open my eyes to opportunities and what I should do from now on... 

I also want to add that everything I have said earlier about myself, even if publicly posted here, is my personal matter and should therefore not be laughed at or put up against me... All I'm asking is for no sarcasm regarding my sayings... Thanks in advance


----------



## kubota99

Thanks for the reply! I'll have to agree with you, some ADD's just do crazy stuff when off their meds... I'll follow the correct steps to try and prove I can do it! In no way I meant to annoy, or piss anyone off here... I'm glad I've gotten answer from you guys! 


Now, I've received answers from so many different users, I get it, ADD's aren't likely to be "liked" because they endanger others...  :facepalm:





			
				the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I am glad for the discrimination!  God for bid someone experiencing these types of symptoms was protecting my freedom. Now back to my secret society where we wear robes, and burn effigies of ADD sufferers on a stick.....
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



And for that hate speech about ADD's... Really?


----------



## MikeL

Why do you have two threads going about this?

Stop playing the victim and saying how you are facing discrimination, etc  At this time you do not meet the medical standards for joining the Canadian Forces.  Lots of others have been turned away for reasons similar to yours and other reasons(such as vision).  Do what the Medical Staff/CFRC said,  reapply in the future and take it from there. 


No doubt you are frustrated over this,  but the reasons for it are out of your control at the moment and complaining online isn't going to change that.  Take the hit,  and move on.  In the meantime you can work on upgrading education,  working out, volunteering, etc make your application that much better in the future - provided the medical section signs off saying you are good.


----------



## ModlrMike

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Now back to my secret society where we wear robes, and burn effigies of ADD sufferers on a stick.....
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



These guys?

http://meblogwritegood.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/screen-shot-2011-11-14-at-6-27-45-pm.png


----------



## canada94

While I am not going to say that ADD isn't a serious issue or is not, it varies from person to person.

My father has been an RCMP Officer for over 30 years and is diagnosed with ADD (I am assuming a mild form of it). I have friends from high school with more severe cases... but in all; generalizing occurs a lot in medicine. I was born with a rare condition (physical not mental health related) that initially disqualified me from the application process (as some people are debilitated by it), I fought against it and had medical professionals (including Military Doctors) state on record that my issue (which I will not go into detail about, as I believe it is irrelevant to my capabilities) is Asymptotic (does not effect me), when I went to my medical, I told the personal about this, and he believed it shouldn't effect me either, long story short, I passed the medical, even when it came back from Ottawa (I believe that is where they send it). 

Believe it or not many people have "conditions" that do not effect them, IE; Arthritis loads of my friends have it from hockey (I played Junior level hockey) and loads of my former teammates suffer from joint problems. They are still highly effective athletes. 

However on the flip-side some people have conditions that DO effect them. Terrible vision, colour vision (for CV1 trades) and even Arthritis can be debilitating (a former teammate of mine, can't even play sports anymore), as medical understanding progresses more progressive decisions are made (for accommodation) for instance my father who has a $hIT tonne of responsibility in his job does NOT require medication; anyways I hope I can give some insight through this little speel hehe.     

That all being said, I am NOT a member of the Forces and I am NOT any type of medical professional, however I have been around the block with being "disregarded" because of a medical condition that is benign and does not effect me what-so-ever, and I assume SOME ADD/ADHD cases are similar. ALSO I do not want to discuss the specifics of my medical condition, that is for me, my doctors and the military medical professionals to discuss. 

EDIT: Sent early wanted to modify it.


----------



## the 48th regulator

canada94 said:
			
		

> While I am not going to say that ADD isn't a serious issue or is not, it varies from person to person.
> 
> My father has been an RCMP Officer for over 30 years and is diagnosed with ADD (I am assuming a mild form of it). I have friends from high school with more severe cases... but in all; generalizing occurs a lot in medicine. I was born with a rare condition (physical not mental health related) that initially disqualified me from the application process (as some people are debilitated by it), I fought against it and had medical professionals (including Military Doctors) state on record that my issue (which I will not go into detail about, as I believe it is irrelevant to my capabilities) is Asymptotic (does not effect me), when .
> 
> Believe it or not many people have "conditions" that do not effect them, IE; Arthritis loads of my friends have it from hockey (I played Junior level hockey) and loads of my former teammates suffer from joint problems. They are still highly effective athletes.
> 
> However on the flip-side some people have conditions that DO effect them. Terrible vision, colour vision (for CV1 trades) and even Arthritis can be debilitating (a former teammate of mine, can't even play sports anymore), as medical understanding progresses more progressive decisions are made (for accommodation) for instance my father who has a $hIT tonne of responsibility in his job does NOT require medication; anyways I hope I can give some insight through this little speel hehe.
> 
> That all being said, I am NOT a member of the Forces and I am NOT any type of medical professional, however I have been around the block with being "disregarded" because of a medical condition that is benign and does not effect me what-so-ever.



Benign, based on your non medical oppion.

If you had an episode, in the middle of he Firefight, and your battle buddy dies, how would you explain to his widow and little children?

_"Listen kids, what I have is known to be benign, and that episode I had, that caused your dad to die, is a one off.  Sorry your daddy is no longer here, but hey, I am still around which proves that ADD sufferers can still serve, that is a good thing right?"_


Yeh, benign.....

dileas

tess


----------



## canada94

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Benign, based on your non medical oppion.
> 
> If you had an episode, in the middle of he Firefight, and your battle buddy dies, how would you explain to his widow and little children?
> 
> _"Listen kids, what I have is known to be benign, and that episode I had, that caused your dad to die, is a one off.  Sorry your daddy is no longer here, but hey, I am still around which proves that ADD sufferers can still serve, that is a good thing right?"_
> 
> 
> Yeh, benign.....
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



True, my medical opinion. 

But I wouldn't trust your's over mine (or vice versa) I trust medical professionals  (Unless of course you are one, then I am sorry). 

And if we are talking about "my" condition that is not mental health related, I have been cleared. But the side of mental health; my father who has been in life and death situations, and has made tough decisions, has never had an episode.

The whole message I was attempting to convey (I know my story was wordy) was that;

Some people do not need medicine and are truly unaffected by a condition. Maybe my father was misdiagnosed and I am completely wrong, however I doubt so, he's been tested multiple times. On the other hand I completely agree, if someone is having out-burst, especially if they are dependent on the medication, then no, they simply are a hazzard in that working condition, they would be a hazzard in a lot of working conditions let alone the military/ policing.


----------



## kubota99

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Why do you have two threads going about this?
> 
> Stop playing the victim and saying how you are facing discrimination, etc  At this time you do not meet the medical standards for joining the Canadian Forces.  Lots of others have been turned away for reasons similar to yours and other reasons(such as vision).  Do what the Medical Staff/CFRC said,  reapply in the future and take it from there.
> 
> 
> No doubt you are frustrated over this,  but the reasons for it are out of your control at the moment and complaining online isn't going to change that.  Take the hit,  and move on.  In the meantime you can work on upgrading education,  working out, volunteering, etc make your application that much better in the future - provided the medical section signs off saying you are good.



Thank you for your answer. And I'm not comparing ADD or what not to anything else, as the ADD itself isn't the problem. The problem is me taking meds, nothing else... Now I am aware of what I have to do, and will make sure that if I have any questions at all, to ask them here. 

For the "re-apply next year", I don't know how it works for the pilot branch, I'll have to ask my recruiter. 

Thanks again for your feedback!


----------



## the 48th regulator

canada94 said:
			
		

> True, my medical opinion.
> 
> But I wouldn't trust your's over mine (or vice versa) I trust medical professionals  (Unless of course you are one, then I am sorry).
> 
> And if we are talking about "my" condition that is not mental health related, I have been cleared. But the side of mental health; my father who has been in life and death situations, and has made tough decisions, has never had an episode.
> 
> The whole message I was attempting to convey (I know my story was wordy) was that;
> 
> Some people do not need medicine and are truly unaffected by a condition. Maybe my father was misdiagnosed and I am completely wrong, however I doubt so, he's been tested multiple times. On the other hand I completely agree, if someone is having out-burst, especially if they are dependent on the medication, then no, they simply are a hazzard in that working condition, they would be a hazzard in a lot of working conditions let alone the military/ policing.



canada94,

Do you know what the DSM-IV manual is?  In fact they have updated recently to DSM-V so with Google fu you may be able to find it fast.....

Unfortunately, your "Mental Health" condition is covered there, as is Kubotu98whateverhisnameis  (That will get me another report).

THat is the criteria for what you have, that is what the parameters DND agrees on, and that is what has been decide to exclude you.  Fuck, if you have bad teeth you can be denied!!!  Understand what everyone has been saying??? IT is not a matter of excluding a clan of misfit toys, it is about not being liable, or capable of maintaining you, and your condition in the environments we ask troops to go to!!!

We can't even afford freaking Mental Health professionals to support those that suffer from OSIs let alone little billies like you two, who can't pay attention to a a teacher!!!!

Is that mean enough for you two???  Did it hurt your feelings??  Geez, that should be another criteria for not letting you two in!!!

Breath breath breath......


----------



## Fishbone Jones

kubota99 said:
			
		

> Anyways, I'm just so confused



Maybe you should have just stopped there.

Tomorrow is another day.


----------



## kubota99

recceguy said:
			
		

> Maybe you should have just stopped there.
> 
> Tomorrow is another day.



I don't know if that was sarcastic, but I'll have to agree to that... Tomorrow is another day, and I sure hope it will be a better one!


----------



## shadesofgreen

Near the end of my last year of high school (2012) I was diagnosed with ADHD by a psychologist and then went to see my doctor about it to get meds because the psychologist told me I should. She never wrote any official diagnostic on paper. So she just called the doctor to tell him about it. I was prescribed Biphentin. Took it for about 3 months max and haven't take them for over an year. I had originally went to see the psychologist just because I didn't have a lot of motivation for school at the time and was confused on what to do with my life and stuff (should of seen a counsellor instead..) and she ended up suggesting that I take a test to see if I have ADHD. I'm pretty sure I don't actually have it because I don't have most of symptoms. And If I have to be really focused or concentrated on something, I can do so just fine.
Anyways I had stopped taking the meds because I didn't like the side effect and I didn't really see the point in me taking them. I've always done decent in school (didn't need any medication for that) and got accepted to college and all. 

I applied on november 20th and did my CFAT (passed) on december 11th.

Will this affect my chances at getting into the army?


----------



## SeaKingTacco

Yes.


----------



## ModlrMike

Is the search function broken?


----------



## Towards_the_gap

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Is the search function broken?



Maybe he couldn't wait for it.


----------



## MJP

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Maybe he couldn't wait for it.



Squirrel...


----------



## Loachman

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> Near the end of my last year of high school (2012) I was diagnosed with ADHD by a psychologist and then went to see my doctor about it to get meds because the psychologist told me I should. She never wrote any official diagnostic on paper. So she just called the doctor to tell him about it. I was prescribed Biphentin. Took it for about 3 months max and haven't take them for over an year. I had originally went to see the psychologist just because I didn't have a lot of motivation for school at the time and was confused on what to do with my life and stuff (should of seen a counsellor instead..) and she ended up suggesting that I take a test to see if I have ADHD. I'm pretty sure I don't actually have it because I don't have most of symptoms. And If I have to be really focused or concentrated on something, I can do so just fine.
> Anyways I had stopped taking the meds because I didn't like the side effect and I didn't really see the point in me taking them. I've always done decent in school (didn't need any medication for that) and got accepted to college and all.
> 
> I applied on november 20th and did my CFAT (passed) on december 11th.
> 
> Have you discussed this with your Recruiter at all?
> 
> Will this affect my chances at getting into the army?


----------



## shadesofgreen

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Is the search function broken?



Well it wasn't working actually, it said ''An Error Has Occurred!''.
But anyways, I guess I'll look around more online. I just like to ask myself cause sometimes other eople may have mention ADHD but their situation might be different them mine and therefor the answers might not apply to me. Some say if you have been a year without meds it's fine others say your disqualified either way.


----------



## mariomike

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> Well it wasn't working actually, it said ''An Error Has Occurred!''.



ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants...... 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68596.0


----------



## Scott

mariomike said:
			
		

> ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68596.0



Ahh yes, the army.ca search function personified: mariomike.

Thanks for helping yet another, Mike. Cheers.


----------



## RectorCR

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> Near the end of my last year of high school (2012) I was diagnosed with ADHD by a psychologist and then went to see my doctor about it to get meds because the psychologist told me I should. She never wrote any official diagnostic on paper. So she just called the doctor to tell him about it. I was prescribed Biphentin. Took it for about 3 months max and haven't take them for over an year. I had originally went to see the psychologist just because I didn't have a lot of motivation for school at the time and was confused on what to do with my life and stuff (should of seen a counsellor instead..) and she ended up suggesting that I take a test to see if I have ADHD. I'm pretty sure I don't actually have it because I don't have most of symptoms. And If I have to be really focused or concentrated on something, I can do so just fine.
> Anyways I had stopped taking the meds because I didn't like the side effect and I didn't really see the point in me taking them. I've always done decent in school (didn't need any medication for that) and got accepted to college and all.
> 
> I applied on november 20th and did my CFAT (passed) on december 11th.
> 
> Will this affect my chances at getting into the army?



As long as you're off them and everything else is relatively competitive (Your grades, experience, education, etc etc are on par with other applicants) it shouldn't have any affect on your application.


----------



## flatlander13

RectorCR said:
			
		

> As long as you're off them and everything else is relatively competitive (Your grades, experience, education, etc etc are on par with other applicants) it shouldn't have any affect on your application.



Unless you are a RMO, I don't think you should be telling the OP how their medical history may or may not effect their application. I also highly doubt that determining an applicant's medical fitness has much, if anything, to do with their grades, experience and education. 

Shadesofgreen, read through the thread MM posted above, I'm sure you can find some useful info!


----------



## RectorCR

flatlander13 said:
			
		

> Unless you are a RMO, I don't think you should be telling the OP how their medical history may or may not effect their application. I also highly doubt that determining an applicant's medical fitness has much, if anything, to do with their grades, experience and education.
> 
> Shadesofgreen, read through the thread MM posted above, I'm sure you can find some useful info!



It's called personal experience...I was diagonized with ADHD a few years ago, was on the same drug and went through the exact same process. You don't think something like ADHD would affect someone's grades, work history, relationships, etc? That's literally the criteria for being diagnosed.


----------



## The_Falcon

RectorCR said:
			
		

> It's called personal experience...I was diagonized with ADHD a few years ago, was on the same drug and went through the exact same process. You don't think something like ADHD would affect someone's grades, work history, relationships, etc? That's literally the criteria for being diagnosed.


'

Your personal experience is irrelevant.  You are not in any way shape or form part of the CAF Medical recruiting team, nor do you have a full medical history from the OP.  I guess you missed/glossed over this post http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/112199.0.html it's in this subforum it's stickied fourth from the top.  Para 3 is applicable to you.


----------



## Franko

RectorCR said:
			
		

> It's called personal experience...I was diagonized with ADHD a few years ago, was on the same drug and went through the exact same process. Blah, blah, blah.....



You are not an MO in the CAF.

LOCKED

The Army.ca Staff


----------



## petercushing

I never took ritalin or did any drugs in my life. Should I be fine for getting in? I had my medical and aptitude test today (applied December and heard back in February). Also, just as a sidenote having V2 vision seems to be fine. Everything else was in order for my medical.


----------



## Scott

Start by proving you can pay close attention:

Search, read, understand. That's for the site. 

Beyond that, no one can really tell you but a recruiter and the med staff. Simple.


----------



## anon12345678

So.. I'm screwed because I have ADHD?  I am on medication so I can be the person that 'society' wants me to be. Honestly, this sucks, it's not like I chose who to be, I was given that, and now I have to deal with it.  Meds are given to me daily, and I get yelled at if I don't take them, because I talk to people more than usual. But when I'm on my meds, I usually just stick to myself, not talking, even if spoken to. It's like I'm 'too focused'  But, I'm thinking of stepping out of my perfect world, and into the real world. I might gradually stop taking my meds until I don't actually need them to function alongside society.


----------



## medicineman

EpicWindz said:
			
		

> So.. I'm screwed because I have ADHD?  I am on medication so I can be the person that 'society' wants me to be. Honestly, this sucks, it's not like I chose who to be, I was given that, and now I have to deal with it.  Meds are given to me daily, and I get yelled at if I don't take them, because I talk to people more than usual. But when I'm on my meds, I usually just stick to myself, not talking, even if spoken to. It's like I'm 'too focused'  But, I'm thinking of stepping out of my perfect world, and into the real world. I might gradually stop taking my meds until I don't actually need them to function alongside society.



To be politely blunt, yes you are.  The CAF has decided to draw a line with what's acceptable for people to have and still be able to work for them and what isn't - you fall into what's considered unacceptable to be employed by them at this time.  They don't owe you a job. 

MM


----------



## alx12345

medicineman said:
			
		

> To be politely blunt, yes you are.  The CAF has decided to draw a line with what's acceptable for people to have and still be able to work for them and what isn't - you fall into what's considered unacceptable to be employed by them at this time.  They don't owe you a job.
> 
> MM



Dang that's brutal.

I have ADD and the Doc at the recruit office said I'm fine as long i can stand 6 month without med, however i am not even on med anyway. And 3 days ago i have tried a "Student pilot" program, to pilot a cessna 172 for the first time with an instructor that is only there to fix my error i could make, my instructor though that i would struggle with my ADD, but actually, he said i was one of the best for a first timer.


----------



## medicineman

I'm brutal simply because in our society, saying what people need to hear is frowned upon and it's obvious nobody has told him what he needs to hear, but what he wants to hear.  He's on meds at this time and you're apparently coping/doing well without them.  I've seen a lot of folks that were allowed in with them many moons ago that, despite the meds, had issues with their impulsivity, lack of attention and because Mommy wasn't there to make sure they got them, they often didn't take their pills, making life worse for everyone.  I've also run into several where it was apparent they needed them, due to how their lives and work were going.  Depends on whether they're coping or not and proving that they are.

MM  

Edit for hypocaffeinic grammatical error.


----------



## alx12345

Yeah i understand.

EpicWindz, when was the last time you stopped the meds for good? (If you ever did)


----------



## Eye In The Sky

alx12345 said:
			
		

> Dang that's brutal.



No, it is just honest and not sugar-coated.


----------



## Loachman

alx12345 said:
			
		

> Dang that's brutal.



If you think that that's brutal, you should see some of the real-life situations in which some CF members occasionally find themselves.

Failure to perform appropriately in those situations can lead to death, injury, loss of valuable equipment, mission failure, or any combination thereof.

That is what drives our medical standards.

They, and all of our standards, exist for valid reasons.


----------



## alx12345

Yes i know, but having ADD/ADHD doesn't automatically mean to be rejected by society, whe dint know but, maybe the guy will be just fine without the meds.


----------



## medicineman

There is a reason we don't give much in the way of definite answers regarding many medical issues and Recruiting - we only get the part of the story the person wishes to share with us.  Listening to how he went off, I have little doubt there may be something else going on we don't know about.  Nowhere anywhere did anyone mention being rejected by society except for the dude/ette that started this little thing here - being rejected medically by the CAF doesn't mean rejection by society -  that's actually a pretty huge jump that at best shows some issues with entitlement, bratty behaviour that's been otherwise rewarded or a total lack of maturity (or all of the above).  These are problems that don't go well with military service.  Irritability in that regard is also an ADD/ADHD trait, that if not reined in well, also gets people in a lot of trouble in the Forces...and it can also be a trait of other more sinister problems, which is why I think there might be a bit more than meets the eye here IMHO.

MM


----------



## shadow949

I'm going to tell you a bit about my self as it relates to my question,

I wanted to be in the Canadian Forces since I was about 5 years old. Picking up books, and watching war documentaries filled most of my childhood days. I learned,  and still learning as much military history and strategies as humanly possible(at least during the days when I am not flooded by math and biology homework  ;D ) I even read Sun Tzu's Art of War!   So as soon as I turned 12 I joined the Royal Canadian Army Cadets (2853 RCAC/69th Battery, 56th Field Artillery Regiment) Progressing through the ranks and attending as many CSTC's as possible I eventually landed to where I am now; A Warrant Officer, 17 years old, and in grade 12(also received top silver star, and top gold star in my corps) So as many of my friends are applying to university, I want to join the army  I also have some pretty good marks too! (92% in University grade 12 English, 88% in 12U Biology, and 76% in 12U Advanced Functions) I took University level classes so that I can leave some doors open down the road. My dream is to join the Canadian Infantry, then go to University and take Criminology, and from there I want become a Police Officer! But I'm very open minded about making a career in the Army as it is my passion to help and protect people. 

So just the other night I was talking to my old MWO in Cadets(He wanted to join the Infantry too) When I asked him how it went, a look of disappointment appeared. He said that he has very severe ADHD and if he does not take his meds then he gets very angry and lashes out at people. So I was not surprised to see that the recruiter turned him down as he could be a compromise to his team and to his mission. 

But that's what brings me here today, When I was in grade 9 the teachers made a comment that I should stay more focused and not talk to my friends as much(It was Geography and I had a 97% in that class)  : Well my parents took me to a pediatrician and eventually they put me on some very mild ADHD meds(my teachers didn't even think I had ADHD) Well the dosage was 20mg and Ive been taking them for two years. In my honest opinion I do not believe I have ADHD but the meds give me an edge over my classmates, and to clarify the reason why I think that I don't have ADHD is because of the fact that I was able to get high marks without the meds, and I have no outbursts of anger, I don't lash out at people, I was quite popular before I took the meds, and still am even on the meds. I think I was just an average teenage kid. BUT Ive read that being on ADHD meds will disqualify me from joining the Infantry, so if I can get a note from my pediatrician saying that I am off my meds and no longer need to continue taking them, will it allow me to join the Infantry?As I truly do not need to be on them.

If you have any suggestions please tell me as it would be appreciated greatly  ;D Or any comments or personal experiences in situations like mine, 

Thank you kindly


----------



## ModlrMike

I suggest you use the search function. This subject has been discussed in depth.


----------



## shadesofgreen

In November of 2013, I sent my application for the CF. I did my aptitude test and my medical that following winter. Unfortunatly I got my ''rejection'' letter last summer. The reason for my rejection was because of an evaluation made by a psychologist a few years prior. She diagnosed me with ADHD and recommended therapy and medication. 

The letter also stated that If I disagreed with the decision, I could submit new informatio/paperwork. Back then I did not have a doctor and had never had a follow-up about the ADHD with anyone. So I had nobody to fill in the paperwork they gave me at the medical. I ended up having to send them that old evaluation instead.

I now have a doctor that I regularly see and I want to ask him If I can get re-evaluated. I am pretty confident that if I had the opportunity to be evaluated again, I would not have this diagnostic.

The reason is that (I will for sure get many negative comments for that and I probably deserve it), At the time of the evaluation, years ago, I....''exagerated'' the symptoms. I was a stupid kid and I thought that ADHD meds would help me study better. I regret this very much. I would never do something like that today and I know this is gonna get a lot of ''you don't belong in the military'' comments. But it was a stupid mistake, it happened a long time ago and I seriously wish I could go back and not do that. Talking about this won't really help my case but I still wanted to be honest about it.

My questions are:
1) Is it too late to send new paperwork (with a second evaluation)? Will my file be closed? Basically, do I have to go through all the procces again and re-apply?
2) How likely is it that a new evaluation will change their decision? Is it only good if the new evaluation is done by the same person?


----------



## shadesofgreen

mariomike said:
			
		

> As always, best to contact Recruiting.
> 
> In the meantime, you may find this four page topic of interest.
> 
> ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68596.0



Thanks for the reply, I guess I will contact them once I get the new evaluation and see. I hope thinks work out well for me.
As for that thread, it is not really of interest to me as I do not actually have ADHD but thanks anyways.


----------



## mariomike

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply, I guess I will contact them once I get the new evaluation and see. I hope thinks work out well for me.
> As for that thread, it is not really of interest to me as I do not actually have ADHD but thanks anyways.



OK Good luck. 

I remember you from this topic.

ADHD
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/113429/post-1279465.html#msg1279465


----------



## Loachman

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/armed-forces-applicant-cites-discrimination-over-anxiety-diagnosis-1.2949644

Armed Forces applicant cites discrimination over anxiety diagnosis

Brandon Cooper, a young Newfoundlander who wants to follow a family tradition of military service, says the Canadian Armed Forces have discriminated against him because his application was rejected over an anxiety diagnosis. 

“I just want to do some time for my country, give it some service,” Cooper, 17, told CBC News.

'I don't think that people should have to hide the fact that they have a mental illness'- Brandon Cooper

Cooper, who lives in Mount Pearl, comes from a family whose members have served during the Second World War as well as in recent missions in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

He said it was hard to believes that that a diagnosis of general anxiety disorder (GAD) made a couple of years ago was going to keep him from continuing that line of service.

While recently completing his military application, Cooper said he passed his physical and aptitude tests with ease. However, while filling out the medical section, Cooper said he was truthful when he answered yes for anxiety.

“So I checked off [that] I have general anxiety, and then probably two months after that I got a letter in the mail that said I was denied," he said during an interview. 

"The fact that I was turned down immediately because of anxiety brings up a big deal to me, because if I wasn't to check off that box, then would I be in the Armed Forces right now," Cooper said. 

Panic attack led to diagnosis

Now getting ready to graduate in June — and thinking about what his future holds — Cooper said said he was diagnosed with GAD after a panic attack that occured two years ago while he was taking an exam at school. 


Brandon Cooper holds a copy of the rejection letter. (Anthony Germain/CBC)

"I went to a psychologist,” he said. “I just wanted to see what they could do for me, and what they first did is they recommended a medication.”

Cooper was prescribed Prozac, a common antidepressant medication also known as a SSRI, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Prozac can be used to treat depression, obsessive compulsiveness and anxiety.

Cooper said he felt he did not need the medication and that, after trying it for a while, he stopped taking it. He said he learned about anxiety, and developed personal coping strategies that worked for him.

"I want to prove to [the Armed Forces] that my anxiety is not controlling me. And that I have methods in place where I can control the anxiety,” he said.

Now in his last year of high school at O’Donel High School in Mount Pearl, Cooper said he is aiming for grades that are above 90 per cent. He adds that he is overall an A student.

He also heads a mental health support group at his school. He said teachers and friends can vouch for his daily capabilities and that he has a strong volunteer presence both in school and in the community.

"I don't think that people should have to hide the fact that they have a mental illness," Cooper said.

Are others afraid to speak up?

After being put through the range of emotions he has experienced because of all this, Cooper said he would like to see the Armed Forces change the way they review applicants.

On top of that he now worries for the other men and women who either want to join the Armed Forces but are unable to because of a situation like his, or those who are currently serving who may not be able to find the help they need.

“I went back to the recruiting centre and told them that I don't agree with the fact that I got denied because of my anxiety … Call my doctors if you have to, just don't deny a person right away because of their mental illness,” Cooper said.

"We all know that mental health matters, so, the problem is, are there any people that are in the Armed Forces that are afraid to go get medical help because of a problem they have?"

Cooper plans to appeal the Armed Forces decision to reject him, a process that he said he is currently researching.

“It scares me because I don't think people should at all be discriminated because of what mental illness they have."


----------



## GAP

An anxiety attack at the time the pucker factor is high does not bode well for the situation, any situation, but especially in regards to military operations..... :


----------



## Harris

Loachman said:
			
		

> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/armed-forces-applicant-cites-discrimination-over-anxiety-diagnosis-1.2949644
> 
> “It scares me because I don't think people should at all be discriminated because of what mental illness they have."



Frankly, I'm good with discrimination based on the type of mental illness someone has IF it may effect their handling of weapons, explosives, or any other thing that may kill/injure someone else.

I believe that the systems doesn't do enough now to weed out those tho cannot handle stressful situations.  I've seen it first hand at my Unit with folks who never should have made it past BMQ.


----------



## Teager

What's rather scary is the amount of people that commented on the article that believe mental illness should have no bearing on if you get hired by the CAF.


----------



## Ayrsayle

While I am by no means an expert on it - I think it comes back to universality of service.  The limitations are largely based on suitability rather then direct discrimination.  While I am willing to accept that some individuals with a mental illness (insert any number of things in here) are more capable then some individuals without it - on the whole these conditions create a predisposition to having issues conducting your duties.

A friend of mine is Deaf and took the fact he was not eligible for military service particularly hard - and felt he was being discriminated against.  I can understand his frustration, but when I started to explain why hearing is an essential capacity to have in the military context (the system is set up for hearing and I can't see many ways around it without having everyone else have to change the structure of the army to accommodate) - He understood it wasn't about him not being good enough "personally", but that it would effect his ability to perform vital tasks.  It would put other people at risk.

Handling stressful situations is a must for all military personnel - Yes, you may think you have a good coping system, drugs, etc and that YOU feel it will not impact your performance (or that you are still better then everyone else, etc) - but ultimately that is a decision for the CAF to make (in this case).  The onus is on the applicant to demonstrate suitability, not for the system to accommodate everyone.


----------



## DnentonSg

I agree that someone who truly suffers from chronic issues like depression and anxiety should be "discriminated" against in one way or another when attempting to get into high stress careers such as the military. It is truly unfortunate; but with the amount of issues already in the CF such as PTSD and suicide it is truly for their own good. What bothers me is situations like this young man, who had a one time situation where his stress levels spiked and he took responsibility and looked to get treatment to better himself, like any person who is suffering from any issue whether it be physical or mental should and now many years latter it is affecting him.  Everyone at one  point or another has felt unhappy, stressed out or overly anxious about something. So it is unfortunate that due to  our society placing such  an emphasis on mental health awareness and support that as a result of this, doctors tend to throw out diagnosis and prescriptions like they're nothing and thus later on in life possibly end up doing more damage to said "treated" individual than good.

I feel like if the CF keeps this medical standard up of rejecting anyone who ever even brought up the word depressed to a doctor that they might find themselves mailing out an abundance of these medical rejection letters to young applicants fresh out of high school, or post secondary education who may have encountered a few months of tough times and simply looked to better themselves.


----------



## ModlrMike

It bears repeating:

Everyone gets to apply, not everyone gets to join. Sort yourself out and apply again, or move along.


----------



## Brasidas

He decided he didn't need medication for his problem, when a medical professional did. The onus is on him to get medical support to substantiate that.

The CF expects honesty on the part of applicants, and applicants lie at their own peril. The CF can and should exclude applicants like this one if they may not be able to handle stress without medication or other medical support.


----------



## Remius

We also likely don't have all the facts.  Generally if someone had something that could be treated and "cured" as it were they are normally referred back to their doctor for confirmation.

I'm no expert on mental health issues so I don't know if GAD is a permanent condition or not but likely this young man still has medical issues that the CF cannot take a risk on.

I've seen enough recruits/troops with similar conditions (possibly undiagnosed and possibly not admitted to) to know that they are a liability.  Life and work in the CF can cause enough mental health issues/starins that we don't need to take risks on known pre-existing conditions.


----------



## Loachman

He understands that there is an appeal process, and is looking into that, yet he still had to whine about this "discrimination" to the press before even attempting the official route.

He will be an absolute charm if he ever gets in.

And for that reason, I have no sympathy for him.


----------



## dimsum

Loachman said:
			
		

> He understands that there is an appeal process, and is looking into that, yet he still had to whine about this "discrimination" to the press before even attempting the official route.
> 
> He will be an absolute charm if he ever gets in.
> 
> And for that reason, I have no sympathy for him.



Took the words right out of my mouth.


----------



## George Wallace

Teager said:
			
		

> What's rather scary is the amount of people that commented on the article that believe mental illness should have no bearing on if you get hired by the CAF.



I haven't read any of those comments yet, but would be tempted to ask those people if they would trust a person with a mental illness to:

1. be in possession of a loaded weapon;

2. be the pilot of a passenger aircraft;

3. be a bus driver;

4. be a medical practitioner or pharmacist; or

5. be in any of the many other Trades whereby the slightest error could cause fatalities.


----------



## Teager

Agreed George. The comments seemed split 50/50 arguing for and against. Those saying they should be allowed have very limited knowledge of the CAF.


----------



## Eland2

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> While I am by no means an expert on it - I think it comes back to universality of service.  The limitations are largely based on suitability rather then direct discrimination.  While I am willing to accept that some individuals with a mental illness (insert any number of things in here) are more capable then some individuals without it - on the whole these conditions create a predisposition to having issues conducting your duties.
> 
> A friend of mine is Deaf and took the fact he was not eligible for military service particularly hard - and felt he was being discriminated against.  I can understand his frustration, but when I started to explain why hearing is an essential capacity to have in the military context (the system is set up for hearing and I can't see many ways around it without having everyone else have to change the structure of the army to accommodate) - He understood it wasn't about him not being good enough "personally", but that it would effect his ability to perform vital tasks.  It would put other people at risk.
> 
> Handling stressful situations is a must for all military personnel - Yes, you may think you have a good coping system, drugs, etc and that YOU feel it will not impact your performance (or that you are still better then everyone else, etc) - but ultimately that is a decision for the CAF to make (in this case).  The onus is on the applicant to demonstrate suitability, not for the system to accommodate everyone.



One of my uncles spent 23 years in the army. He has lost a significant portion of his hearing and also suffers from tinnitus (ringing in the ears) as a result of his service. He traces most of the loss back to the days when, as a young private in the RCOC, he was given the job of running a 10-kilowatt generator. The only way the job could be done was for him to sleep in the back of a deuce-and-a-half truck and then awaken as needed to run the generator. 

As it turns out, the truck was located right beside the generator. He didn't wear hearing protection; back in those days, the importance of hearing conservation wasn't recognized as well as it is today and so he wasn't issued ear defenders.

The rest of the hearing loss (and probably the tinnitus) was likely the result of being exposed to the sound of small arms fire, tanks firing their main guns, etc., while on exercises and with no hearing protection. The military is a noisy environment, and only a few trades are able to avoid much exposure to the noise. Even RMS clerks, who work in offices on bases most of the time, can be posted to the field periodically and thus exposed to the hazard. They may also lose some of their hearing even with proper protection as noise has a cumulative effect on hearing and this is magnified due to the natural effects of aging.

It isn't a case of your hearing impaired friend not being able to hear commands and warnings properly and therefore being unable to respond properly (thus putting the lives of others at risk), it's also a case of losing what little hearing he may have left from being exposed to occupational hazards that are considered a normal and unavoidable part of the jobs that soldiers, sailors and aircrew are expected to do.

It costs the military - and by extension, taxpayers a lot of money to recruit, train, and equip someone to do a specific job. If the person has to be released early in their career due to service-related injuries that gravely aggravate a pre-existing medical condition, then financially speaking, a net loss will be borne by the military, and additional costs will be incurred through providing a disability pension and other disability-related supports. Still more costs may be incurred if the person released from employment lodges a lawsuit and is successful.

It would be irresponsible for the military to recruit such individuals knowing the risks of doing so, operationally and otherwise, and knowing that the potential consequences were quite easily avoided by not recruiting people who have pre-existing medical conditions that will seriously affect their ability to function and do their jobs properly.

As to the person who wanted to join while suffering from GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder), it isn't the fact that they need life-sustaining medication that is the problem, because the benzodiazepines and anti-depressants used to treat anxiety disorders aren't life-sustaining. The problem lies in the fact that these drugs can induce drowsiness and, in the case of benzodiazepines especially, can negatively affect alertness and judgment. 

An associated problem lies in the fact that people on high-dose benzo regimens can experience serious symptoms, including seizures (to say nothing of exacerbation of their existing problem) when their prescriptions are cut off or refills are delayed. Imagine the problems that could result if a member who is dependent on that kind of medication is deployed to a remote region of the world where the required medications cannot be readily found if the existing prescription runs out. The net result is that you will have a member who will suffer needlessly and also become a management problem and thus combat ineffective.

The military isn't really structured to look after the needs of people who have chronic or permanent medical conditions as most of the medical resources are aimed at treating service members who are injured while on duty or in combat, and getting them back to the front lines or their jobs as quickly as possible, whenever feasible to do so, or if not feasible, sending them somewhere where they can get the treatment they need without regard for operational concerns or restrictions. That is to say, recommending that they be released from the military and sent back into civilian life.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Loachman said:
			
		

> “So I checked off [that] I have general anxiety, and then probably two months after that I got a letter in the mail that said I was denied," he said during an interview.
> 
> "The fact that I was turned down immediately because of anxiety brings up a big deal to me, because if I wasn't to check off that box, then would I be in the Armed Forces right now," Cooper said. I would have been guilty of committing an offense so I probably made the right choice, even though I am having a hard time living with the result of being honest.



Had to add some reality in there.



> Panic attack led to diagnosis
> 
> Now getting ready to graduate in June — and thinking about what his future holds — Cooper said said he was diagnosed with GAD after a panic attack that occured two years ago while he was taking an exam at school.



I'd bet a box of donut holes that if he had lied on his application, his 'anxiety' would have presented itself during BMQ.  I'm glad I won't be joining this particular person at Castle range as a Throwing Bay NCO ever, never mind deployed ops.


----------



## Atominthesky

You cannot "lose" ADD/ADHD, you have it your entire life. It's a mental disorder. What happens is as you grow older your mind matures, which enables us to better control the condition.


----------



## jwtg

Loachman said:
			
		

> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/armed-forces-applicant-cites-discrimination-over-anxiety-diagnosis-1.2949644
> 
> "The fact that I was turned down immediately because of anxiety brings up a big deal to me, because if I wasn't to check off that box, [then would I be one step further in the application process for, but still not in,]  the Armed Forces right now," Cooper said.


Fixed that for him.



			
				Atominthesky said:
			
		

> You cannot "lose" ADD/ADHD, you have it your entire life. It's a mental disorder. What happens is as you grow older your mind matures, which enables us to better control the condition.


What about the growing body of research suggesting that ADD/ADHD is massively over-diagnosed, typically resulting from children (especially boys) not wanting to sit in chairs for hours at a time? (How dare they want to play...)

What I find interesting about all this is which mechanisms should or should not be in place for CF psychological screening.  Why not run everyone through the MMPI like some other organizations do?  I understand there are logistics to consider (time, cost, etc.) but surely those logistics pale in comparison to the value of having psychologically screened everyone who wears a uniform?  

EDIT to add: I'm a few years out of the recruiting system, so I'm not actually sure which measures are in place right now in terms of personality/psychological screening.  I have heard rumors of a personality test, anyone here have better and current info?


----------



## medicineman

Atominthesky said:
			
		

> You cannot "lose" ADD/ADHD, you have it your entire life. It's a mental disorder. What happens is as you grow older your mind matures, which enables us to better control the condition.



It's actually a developmental brain disorder which exhibits itself in behavioural problems.  

BTW, just because someone has a mental disorder, doesn't mean they have it for life - there are more than a few that self resolve or resolve with various therapies.

MM


----------



## HaZarD SFD

I have had ADHD from the age of 11.  Took medication till I was 17.  In the past 3 years (I am 32 now)  I have retaken medication to see if it helped with my sleeping and attitude. (Maybe 3-4months of medication over 3 years)

I was denied due to taking medication from 2000 till Jan 2015.  I think they just misread the information that was given.  

I took the denial letter to the doctors as per the Medical Officers suggestion.  My doctor seen the letter and clarified the situation medically and physically.  Stating I was only on medication temporarily and that I do not require doctor visits.  I maybe see her 1-2 times a year but 80% of the time its because I am actually sick.

I have been basically off it for 15 years and have achieved graduating with honors from alqonquin college and currently working in a machine shop producing Fracture Critical aircraft components.

I have been off the medication 100% since January and have submitted my letter and hope for a review of it and I will see what happens from there.

***

I was told my medical will stop my file from ERC if it does not pass.  However it was denied after ERC and the Recruiting officer had no idea of that.  I also tried contacting him 30 days prior leaving 3-4 messages and it took him a month to even call back after getting my papers back from ERC.


----------



## SupersonicMax

ADHD...  I am convinced most of my colleagues, including myself, have it (or at least some degree of it).  We were just "lucky" our parents didn't take the easier route of medication...  For me, my parents kept me in sports and extra-curricular activities which made me more manageable (or so she says).  I have never been diagnosed although reading and signs and symptoms make me think of how I am.  I also believe some of those traits helped me get where I am.

It may just be me, but I find pills is the easy solution nowadays for a little more active kids...  Once they are on it, you severely reduce their life options....


----------



## estoguy

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> ADHD...  I am convinced most of my colleagues, including myself, have it (or at least some degree of it).  We were just "lucky" our parents didn't take the easier route of medication...  For me, my parents kept me in sports and extra-curricular activities which made me more manageable (or so she says).  I have never been diagnosed although reading and signs and symptoms make me think of how I am.  I also believe some of those traits helped me get where I am.
> 
> It may just be me, but I find pills is the easy solution nowadays for a little more active kids...  Once they are on it, you severely reduce their life options....



Hey Max, 

Totally agree with you. I had a prof at Queens in education who had a theory that ADHD was not actually a problem, but a modification in brain development.  In multitasking situations, she'd been involved in studies that found that people with ADHD worked better, as they seemed to have the ability to better track information, etc from multiple sources better. 

I really discussed the issue with my family doctor in my late teens, as I believed it was an issue for me.  He felt based on our conversation that I did as well.  I never did any formal testing and we did discuss the medication angle.  He felt that at the age i was at (I was around 18 at the time), he felt the medication wouldn't do much, and considering my marks were OK in school and that I'd basically dealt with it my whole life, that I'd be fine.

In my case, I really had to get my time management down and avoid distractions.  I've made it through public school, high school, college and university with very minimal support.  Most of how I dealth with it, I did on my own.  I found information on my own and applied it. 

I too believe that the medication route is an easy way out, and really does have limiting effects later in life.  I truly believe that in many instances, ADHD can be managed in other ways. People just aren't willing to do the work.


----------



## MikeyBoy

Hello, 

I am a student in Ontario who will be going to grade 12 in September and I want to apply and go to Wilfred Laurier University once I graduate. I'll be applying for a military history program and after graduate I plan on going to officer school in the military. 

However, I learned that I can apply to join the military and have my school paid for while having to serve 2 months for every month the Army pays for after graduation. This sounds perfect to me, it aligns with my goals after graduation and it would make University less of a financial burden on me and my family. However, I have ADHD and have been taking Adderall while in school to help me do my work and retain information, I noticed that after I started taking the medication in grade 11, my grades went from 60s and 70s in academic classes in grade 9 & 10 to low 80s in university classes. I know the medication helps me a lot in a school environment, and I have been worrying that I won't be able to take my medication while I am in university if I join the payed university program.

I've done research and know that I won't be able to take any medication while I'm serving and I'm perfectly fine with that, taking the medication only during school is my main goal as I learn faster and more effectively with it.

To sum it up, my question is: If I joined the payed university program, would I be able to take ADHD medications such as Adderall whilst I am in university? 

Thank you


----------



## GreysM

Hello everyone,

I know ADD/ADHD have been brought up in the past, but I haven't been able to find anything on having a misdiagnose of ADD on record.
I found myself having trouble during my first year in University, and at this time my wife's health went downhill quickly after a new condition was misdiagnosed and she was prescribed the wrong meds, and we had multiple deaths in the family. I seen a doctor in January of this year, who diagnosed me with ADD(I was having trouble focusing in class and on tests). After a short time I started having a reaction to the medicine, and stopped taking it. There was no noticeable change afterwards, and I saw my doctor recently after completing summer courses without any medication, and he believed he had misdiagnosed me and that it was just from going through a stressful period, and possibly from being back in an education setting(I graduated in 2008) after so many years.

I plan to apply for the reserves soon, while I'm in still in school full time. I know I'll find out more when I talk to the recruiter(still training for BMQ) and I'm wondering if this may be an issue? My marks are not the greatest, but they are consistent. 

Thank you for your time.


----------



## PuckChaser

It's been covered ad nauseum here before. Fully disclose during your medical, expect to have to obtain a doctor's note and have him/her fill out a form describing the misdiagnosis. Submit and expect to wait a while as the CFRG MOs review your file. You may or may not get a favourable decision from them.


----------



## vancouver12

Can someone with ADHD apply to join? Also if you are on ADHD medication will that disqualify you? If you are able to prove that you can operate without taking the medication, how does that process work?

Thank you for looking into this.


----------



## BinRat55

Personal experience ONLY - not to be taken as gospel...

My son was diagnosed with severe ADHD at age 6. On ritalin for 12 years. Graduated high school (not the top, but not even close to the worst)... He is now in Borden with over 2 years reg force under his belt.

He (of his own accord) ceased his meds during his application process. It was brought up during his med interview and they were more concerned with his dandruff!! Apparently, as an adult he was allowed to stop taking meds if he wished. Because they never felt that these were "life-sustaining" meds, no harm no foul I guess.

Personal experience ONLY... NOT to be taken as gospel.


----------



## George Wallace

Please SEARCH and READ what has already been posted on this condition.  

http://army.ca/forums/threads/22352.0.html


----------



## OlivemanD

Hello,
My name is Dawson and I have applied to the CAF under the ROTP, for three different positions, Health Care Administration Officer, Logistics Officer, and Artillery Officer,
I currently have ADHD, and I have been on 54mg Concerta (Methylphenid) doses since kindergarten. I am 17 now. I have completed, and passed the CFAT, and my application
has been approved for further processing. I am wondering if my ADHD, as well as the medication I am taking, will pose any issues during the medical exam. This is my first post,
so if I am posting this in the wrong area, please let me know. I should be getting the call to make an interview date anytime now, so if I could get an answer to this soon that would be great.
It seems that a lot of you guy's are quite knowledgeable, so I am sure someone will be able to help me out with my "predicament"
Thanks,
Dawson


----------



## BinRat55

You don't have a "predicament" you have a "situation". Situations can be handled many different ways as they are as unique to the individual as they are to the viewer. No one on this site can tell you how it will affect you and your enrollment status except for an MO (Medical Officer) and Ottawa. The closest person to offer any advice whatsoever would be DAA, and he should be along any moment!

See what your medical says, wait patiently and let us know how you made out.


----------



## OlivemanD

Thank you, if anyone else has any views, opinions, or advice about my situation, please speak up, because I really want to know if my ADHD and meds will make things
harder for me.
D


----------



## CombatDoc

Read post #160 of this thread, Dawson.


----------



## OlivemanD

That link does not work for me, I can only get on it if it is on milnet.ca, my computer does not allow me on army.ca, Is that topic from the link also on milnet? If I could have
the link for that, that would be awesome.


----------



## BinRat55

OlivemanD said:
			
		

> That link does not work for me, I can only get on it if it is on milnet.ca, my computer does not allow me on army.ca, Is that topic from the link also on milnet? If I could have
> the link for that, that would be awesome.



https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/22352.150


----------



## OlivemanD

Thanks man
D


----------



## HaZarD SFD

I can only speak on my experience.  I was on ADHD Medication.  I was told I need to be off them for 12 months.  I can see why.  I have been and have done fine.  I am now getting my application back in the pile and from when I was given the notice, I only needed my Medical to get it to its final stages.


----------



## loganmoore

It's been my lifelong goal to serve my country in the military... So in January 2015 I applied for the Army reserves as an infantry soldier. I did the physical screening in January, followed by the CFAT and medical interview in May. During the interview I was asked if I was ever diagnosed with ADHD, which I answered yes. I was diagnosed in 2005, at the age of 7. I brought the forms for my doctor to fill out, which he also added that I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2011, which I or any of my family never had any knowledge of. 
After bringing them back, I received a call from CFRC Halifax saying I was medically unfit for military service due to these diagnoses. The letter I received weeks later said I could challenge the RMO's decision, which I did. I went back to my doctor to get re-tested for ADHD and PTSD. After seeing ADHD specialists it was found out I never had ADHD, as I was just tested at the age of 7, the peak of my hyperactivity and they said it was just called being a kid. The doctor also went through the file and realized he made a mistake, and it was my mother, not me that was diagnosed with PTSD. I was relieved and brought the doctors not back and reapplied. 
Two weeks ago I received the same letter, medically unfit for the same reasons, even though I brought a detailed letter saying both diagnoses are false. It said once again that I can challenge the RMO's decision. Would it be worth it to try again? I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get into the military. Also, would it make a difference if I applied for a non-combat career? Infantry has been my lifelong dream, but I could settle for something else as long as I'm in uniform. Thanks.


----------



## BC Old Guy

Yes - challenge the decision.  But rather than just repeating what you have gone through, make arrangements with the Recruiting Medical section through or at the Recruiting Centre.  The issue is that many civilian doctors do not provide the detail, nor do they answer the specific questions the Recruiting Medical Officer is asking.

By talking to the Recruiting Medical section, you should be able to get a list of specific questions they need to answer in order to reconsider your case.  There may be a specific form, or a specific series of questions, that they can provide a hand-out for you to take to your MD or specialist.

If the requirement is for a specific review by a specialist - go to that type of specialist, even if there is a wait time.

During my time in Recruiting HQ I spent some time talking with the Medical staff, and appreciate the issues they go through to ensure that medically fit Canadians are cleared for enrollment.  From my observation, many civilian MDs are very good at treatment, but not that good at completing reports providing specific items of information.

BCOG


----------



## mariomike

loganmoore said:
			
		

> During the interview I was asked if I was ever diagnosed with ADHD, which I answered yes. I was diagnosed in 2005, at the age of 7. I brought the forms for my doctor to fill out, which he also added that I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2011, which I or any of my family never had any knowledge of.
> 
> 
> I went back to my doctor to get re-tested for ADHD and PTSD. After seeing ADHD specialists it was found out I never had ADHD, as I was just tested at the age of 7, the peak of my hyperactivity and they said it was just called being a kid. The doctor also went through the file and realized he made a mistake, and it was my mother, not me that was diagnosed with PTSD.



You may find these discussions of interest,

ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22352.25
7 pages.

A common condition: ADHD, and How I overcame and fixed it to get into the CF.
https://army.ca/forums/threads/92008.0

I was tested for ADHD but never diagnosed  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/114085.0



			
				loganmoore said:
			
		

> It said once again that I can challenge the RMO's decision.



Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/37404.0

Medical appeal  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68680.0

_As always,_ your most reliable source of information is Recruiting.


----------



## Jarnhamar

loganmoore said:
			
		

> Infantry has been my lifelong dream, but I could settle for something else as long as I'm in uniform. Thanks.



There is a reason why the infantry resonates with you. It's not a matter of just getting into the uniform it's a matter of being where you're supposed to be. Don't settle for something else on the account of dickhead doctors or a shitty medical system.
Reapply again, take that letter (make a few photocopies) and make a big deal about it. Someone being lazy isn't worth you losing a career in the Forces over.


----------



## Lumber

Absolutely keep going.

If it is exactly as you say it is (althought it often isn't...), then someone f***ed up big time. If they rejected you because of ADHD and PTSD, and your medical doctor confirms that you have or have had neither, then what are they rejecting you for? 

Don't give up. This might take much more time than you hoped but it will get sorted out.


----------



## CombatDoc

Stop the foolishness. If anyone believes a physician mixed up the diagnosis of "PTSD" between a young male of recruit age and his mother (his mother!), they clearly know nothing about medical records or medical practices

Either loganmoore has ADHD or he doesn't. Either he has PTSD or he doesn't. Either he meets the CEMS or he doesn't. At the end of the day, he is either medically fit to join as a reserve infanteer or he isn't.


----------



## Good2Golf

So in the history of professional medicine, there has never been a mistake made by a practitioner?

ArmyDoc, appreciate the rousing support of your collegial takers of the Hippocratic Oath, however, I'm from Missouri when it comes to the infallibility of medical practitioners.

Regards
G2G


*edited for spelling*


----------



## Jarnhamar

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> So in the history of professional medicine, there has never been a mistake made by a practitioner?
> 
> ArmyDoc, appreciate the rousing support of your collegial takers of the Hypcratic Oath, however, I'm from Missouri when it comes to the infallibility of medical practitioners.
> 
> Regards
> G2G



You beat me to it. From doctors operating on wrong body parts to surgical instruments being left inside bodies. A mixed up the diagnosis of "PTSD" from two people presumably with the same last name isn't all that impossible.


----------



## CombatDoc

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> You beat me to it. From doctors operating on wrong body parts to surgical instruments being left inside bodies. A mixed up the diagnosis of "PTSD" from two people presumably with the same last name isn't all that impossible.


Of course mistakes are made, as you have noted. But this latest post is just the latest with the theme of "my doctor said I had XXX, so I was rejected by recruiting, and I don't really have XXX, so I'm going to challenge the decision". 

At the end of the day, potential recruits either meet CEMS or they don't.


----------



## mariomike

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> So in the history of professional medicine, there has never been a mistake made by a practitioner?



We buried our mistakes. < joke >.


----------



## Good2Golf

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> Of course mistakes are made, as you have noted. But this latest post is just the latest with the theme of "my doctor said I had XXX, so I was rejected by recruiting, and I don't really have XXX, so I'm going to challenge the decision".
> 
> At the end of the day, potential recruits either meet CEMS or they don't.



I didn't see anyone disputing that; only that with some uncertainty to the originating doctor's documentation, there was a case for the poster to clarify and resubmit to the Recruiting Medical Officer...n'est-ce pas?

Regards
G2G


----------



## ang8899

Hello, I'm technically prescribed adderall that I use for school for the past two years(on lowest dosage, off during the summer), I haven't taken it in a month, will I be deemed unfit? Will I have a chance to appeal it?(with possibly my doctor's note?). I truly don't need it, I just take it to help studying(instead of buying it under the table). 

and is it up to the discretion of the recruiting officer and the medical officer? and just to confirm, is it indeed 1 year/12months that I need to be clean in order to continue my application? (for Infantry RESO btw..)

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## Scott

ang8899 said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm technically prescribed adderall that I use for school for the past two years(on lowest dosage, off during the summer), I haven't taken it in a month, will I be deemed unfit? Will I have a chance to appeal it?(with possibly my doctor's note?). I truly don't need it, I just take it to help studying(instead of buying it under the table).
> 
> and is it up to the discretion of the recruiting officer and the medical officer? and just to confirm, is it indeed 1 year/12months that I need to be clean in order to continue my application? (for Infantry RESO btw..)
> 
> Thanks for all the help!



You are not "technically" prescribed anything, you are either prescribed something or you have not been prescribed something. Period. End of. 

Like has been said many times before, talking to the CFRC is the best foot forward, they will let you know what you can do and what the timelines are.

Start reading this thread and see others' experience. Go from there. Hit some of the links graciously provided in this thread. Good luck.


----------



## medicineman

ang8899 said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm technically prescribed adderall that I use for school for the past two years(on lowest dosage, off during the summer), I haven't taken it in a month, will I be deemed unfit? Will I have a chance to appeal it?(with possibly my doctor's note?). I truly don't need it, I just take it to help studying(instead of buying it under the table).
> 
> and is it up to the discretion of the recruiting officer and the medical officer? and just to confirm, is it indeed 1 year/12months that I need to be clean in order to continue my application? (for Infantry RESO btw..)
> 
> Thanks for all the help!



If you're being prescribed it just for studying and you "truly don't need it", I'd be tempted to contact the local college of physicians and surgeons to have a chat with your FMD about prescribing controlled substances for non-indicated reasons.  The fact that you mentioned you got it that way instead of buying it under the table makes me suspect as to your motives for that as well...you know, since many university students with alleged ADHD sell their Aderall as a "study aid". 

It was Jolt Cola and chocolate espresso beans in my day.

To answer your question though, if you have a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD, your doc(s) will have to explain your diagnosis, sub-type, reasons for meds, etc and the gurus in CFRG Medical will make a decision based on that information and current guidelines from Director Medical Policy.

MM


----------



## HaZarD SFD

HaZarD SFD said:
			
		

> I can only speak on my experience.  I was on ADHD Medication.  I was told I need to be off them for 12 months.  I can see why.  I have been and have done fine.  I am now getting my application back in the pile and from when I was given the notice, I only needed my Medical to get it to its final stages.



As per my post from last year.  I am updating it.

I have been off as per their request and I have received my letter from the MO.  I do now qualify for the Common Enrolment Medical Standards.  I now get to "Hurry up and wait" while I find out if I need to redo my Medical and Interview.  I expect I may but its a good insight on the possibility of still being accepted having been on ADHD medication.

*My case is not like everyone elses.  So results will be different.*


----------



## Rofltropter

So I am 17 and in grade 12, very close to graduating. I took my aptitude test but didn't study hard enough and just missed officer mark requirement so I am retaking it. Now the problem is I was diagnosed with ADHD a while back when I was a small child, but I never take it anymore. Yet I have still picked up prescriptions as just a mental "relief" so that in my mind the 'option' is always there.  Am I totally boned for my medical? I can definetly do BMOQ without it.


----------



## Rofltropter

The problem I am having is not that I was diagnosed, but that I still pick up medication but I just don't take it, and I don't know if that will kill my chances of passing medical


----------



## clownfool

You're fine. I had the exact same thing happen to me a few months ago, and all they needed was a signed form from my family doctor.


----------



## PuckChaser

Rofltropter said:
			
		

> The problem I am having is not that I was diagnosed, but that I still pick up medication but I just don't take it, and I don't know if that will kill my chances of passing medical



You need to talk to your doctor ASAP about stopping the medication. That doctor is going to, at minimum, have to sign a note stating your condition and treatment.


----------



## Rofltropter

So the doctor just has to sign off saying I haven't been taking my meds and don't need them?


----------



## PuckChaser

You need to discuss with your doctor as to why you haven't been taking the meds, and see if you no longer need them. The recruiting center will require a form or letter, and you blind-siding your family doctor with not taking (but still filling) a prescription might be of some concern. You will have speedbumps in your recruitment because of this, there's also 7,000 people on here who claim they never needed ADHD drugs in the first place. Some got in, some didn't.

At the end of the day, your doctor is also only making a recommendation. Its the CAF recruiting medical doctors that have the final say.


----------



## BinRat55

clownfool said:
			
		

> You're fine. I had the exact same thing happen to me a few months ago, and all they needed was a signed form from my family doctor.



So "clownfool"... the blanket statement "You're fine" is not an acceptable answer to give here... unless you happen to be the MO that will be signing this young man's med assessment... I can assure you (and Rofltropter) that no med assessment is the same. You say all you needed was a signed letter from your doc. Not the case for my son. See, one can "tell" the doctor that he / she was spending all kinds of money on a prescribed narcotic, just to keep them in the cabinet for peace of mind. True or not, Clinton never actually inhaled, right? My son had not been on his meds for 4 years (I know, because I paid the bills) yet in his case he still had to have a work up IOT prove he was free of Ritalin.

So, in the future, take Puckchaser's lead - never make a definitive statement based on your own experiences - always defer to the proper experts / authorities. Absolutely share your own experience if you choose. But share is all you do.


----------



## clownfool

@BinRat55 I'm sorry that my comment was jumping to conclusions. Ill remember that for next time i relate my assessment to someone else's.


----------



## BinRat55

clownfool said:
			
		

> @BinRat55 I'm sorry that my comment was jumping to conclusions. Ill remember that for next time i relate my assessment to someone else's.



No problems and welcome to Army.ca!


----------



## Good2Golf

clownfool said:
			
		

> @BinRat55 I'm sorry that my comment was jumping to conclusions. Ill remember that for next time i relate my assessment to someone else's.



clownfool, people "swimming in other people's lanes" is by no means just limited to junior/aspiring CAF members, however, it is something to try and stay away from if you can help it.  Bad habits grow into bigger bad habits as time goes on.  

Regards
G2G


----------



## fruitflavor

Rofltropter said:
			
		

> The problem I am having is not that I was diagnosed, but that I still pick up medication but I just don't take it, and I don't know if that will kill my chances of passing medical


also question is what have you been doing with the meds?
ADHD meds aren't cheap and pretty sure almost all if not all of those meds are controlled substances in Canada and US


----------



## martiniyahen

Hi, I'm just wondering if an individual who is on prescribed adhd medicine, adderall specifically is able to join the forces. I have used it in school but have been off it since april. I can function without it but it allows me to stay focused. Please any guidance will be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## CombatDoc

Please search this site for answers to your questions. They have been previously answered.


----------



## mariomike

Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter. Adding here for reference,

"I'm just wondering if an individual who is on prescribed adhd medicine, adderall specifically is able to join the forces."
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123155/post-1437273/topicseen.html#new


----------



## da1root

Good Day,

During the application process, the recruiting medical personnel will assess your unique medical situation. A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for teh Forces. At this time, the Forces will be able to determine if any existing medical conditions would preclude you from joining. This is also important when restrictions may limit the career choices being considered.

If you have specific medical questions you should contact the recruiting detachment nearest you and ask to speak with a member of the medical staff directly.

Best Regards,
Sgt Laen


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, martiniyahen

Please read through http://army.ca/forums/threads/22352.0.html. I will merge this thread with that one soon.

There is a ton of information already on this Site. Spend some time exploring before asking questions, as most questions have been asked and answered already - sometimes repeatedly. By doing this, you'll likely find answers to questions before they even occur to you.


----------



## J Gard

Hey guys.  I'm about to go do my medical soon.   I have read the forums extensively and believe my situation is a bit different regarding adhd medication.  

I've never been diagnosed with adhd or add before.   My doctor has given me the medication though. I should mention that I I never took any medication as a child or in high school.   I lied about the symptoms so I could get the medication (adderall) . Yeah yeah I know... Stupid. I have just finished university and received my degree and now that I've been hearing about this add medication stuff and being denied, I'm kind of upset and mad at myself.   I only ever used it to study.  I didn't even like taking it otherwise, it made me uncomfortable. Once again, I know I'm an idiot. 

I've decided I'm going to be honest with the medical staff about it.  I also have an appointment with my family doctor on Thursday and I'm going to admit I lied and see if that helps me. 

Can anyone say anything about my situation?  Am I screwed?  Can I get stuff removed or changed on my medical record? Any one have any tips or opinions? Sorry for the poor grammar, I'm on a phone.


----------



## Alexis

J Gard said:
			
		

> Hey guys.  I'm about to go do my medical soon.   I have read the forums extensively and believe my situation is a bit different regarding adhd medication.
> 
> I've never been diagnosed with adhd or add before.   My doctor has given me the medication though. I should mention that I I never took any medication as a child or in high school.   I lied about the symptoms so I could get the medication (adderall) . Yeah yeah I know... Stupid. I have just finished university and received my degree and now that I've been hearing about this add medication stuff and being denied, I'm kind of upset and mad at myself.   I only ever used it to study.  I didn't even like taking it otherwise, it made me uncomfortable. Once again, I know I'm an idiot.
> 
> I've decided I'm going to be honest with the medical staff about it.  I also have an appointment with my family doctor on Thursday and I'm going to admit I lied and see if that helps me.
> 
> Can anyone say anything about my situation?  Am I screwed?  Can I get stuff removed or changed on my medical record? Any one have any tips or opinions? Sorry for the poor grammar, I'm on a phone.




You probably already had your medical but I had mine June 6th, I have ADHD and when I was a child, I was given med's but I haven't been on them since I was 8...they saw that I had a job and was doing fine, the SGT said he has to put me unfit and my medical would be sent to Ottawa, it would be Ottawas choice to make me fit or not and a few weeks later they declared me fit. Just got to be honest with them, but the guys doing my medical were super nice.  [ good luck!!


----------



## TabascoOyster

!


----------



## dimsum

TabascoOyster said:
			
		

> Finally, my question; How will this affect my current application to become a Medical Assistant (i'm pursuing medicine in regards to academics)? Will I automatically be checked off as unfit for service and sent to Ottawa for further evaluation?
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their time and feedback!!   [



The only people who can give you the correct answer to that are the fine folks at the Recruiting Centre.  Give them a call/email.


----------



## FinnO25

What are the Canadian forces rules and regulations on Applicants with ADHD?


----------



## ModlrMike

I'm sure there's a wealth of information on that subject lurking under the search button.


----------



## FinnO25

nothing came up when i searched...


----------



## ModlrMike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> nothing came up when i searched..



Forgive me then, I would not have pointed you in that direction had I known.


----------



## Loachman

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> nothing came up when i searched...



It's even stickied at the top of its sub-forum to make it even easier to find.

Most of the commonly-sought topics are similarly stickied.


----------



## BinRat55

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Forgive me then, I would not have pointed you in that direction had I known.



 :rofl:  and then...    :facepalm:


----------



## pushtostart

There is so much that people need to learn about ADHD and meds. The discussion here is a bit of a mess. Here are some clarifications. 
[list type=decimal]
[*]ADHD meds don't necessarily change behavior in a functionally-relevant way. I take ADHD meds sometimes before I teach because it makes teaching easier. I taught for 10 years without the meds, however, and never had any issues. Similarly, I can wear ankle braces when running. It makes running easier but I can run fine without them. The braces just make my muscle and tendon endurance virtually endless. 

[*]ADHD meds can make you better but your average can still be much better than the average of the general population.  
[*]Discriminating on the basis of having been diagnosed is absurd. Most people don't get diagnosed at all and never have the help of a therapist in learning coping mechanisms. For this reason, someone who has been diagnosed and treated is in a better position than someone who has not

[*]As a higher education instructor of 20 years, it is my experience that students with learning 'dosabilities' like ADHD tend to be better at many tasks, like thinking on one's feet, ability to process many diverse stimuli at once, speed and on-the-spot creativity for problem solving. These are desirable traits even in a military environment.

[/list]
*Hence it is spurious to reject applicants on the basis of an ADHD diagnosis.*


----------



## PuckChaser

Fortunately we have actual medical doctors that make the determination that an ADHD diagnosis can preclude someone from serving. Despite your experience as a "higher education instructor", I'd rather trust a qualified medical doctor telling me who can and cannot serve in the CAF. I'd suggest you read up on our medical category system before you make grandiose pronouncements that we have it all wrong. Your experience also gives you 0 ability to decide what a military environment even is, let alone who can serve successfully in it.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

PushToStart said:
			
		

> *Hence it is spurious to reject applicants on the basis of an ADHD diagnosis.*



....and that's based on your 0% experience in the Armed Forces? 

The rules exist for a reason, if at some point they change in the future it will be because experienced doctors who know what they're talking about in regards to a military environment say so.


----------



## pushtostart

Actually, I completed basic and infantry training many years ago, on no meds. I would suggest that we all regard with respect first-hand experience, experience with people who have been diagnosed with learning disabilities, as well as medical advice. As any psychiatrist will tell you, the jury is still out in the scientific community on many of the issues I've commented on here. It's also notable that there tends to be no ADHD influence on physical performance. In terms of intellectual tasks, I do, in fact, possess the expertise to comment on performance and evaluation. There is full disclosure of learning disabilities in colleges and universities, and there's no replacement for experience in our constant struggle to make sense of new and emerging 'disorders.' If you take issue with any of the points I have raised, I suggest that you address these directly, as opposed to focusing fallaciously on the author. This isn't meant to be a competition but an intellectual exchange. You may choose to ignore it but it may be of value to others.


----------



## pushtostart

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> ....and that's based on your 0% experience in the Armed Forces?
> 
> The rules exist for a reason, if at some point they change in the future it will be because experienced doctors who know what they're talking about in regards to a military environment say so.



I am not sure why this was assumed. It's false, as my response indicates. There seems to be a defensiveness in this thread. My goal is only to help. Cheers.


----------



## PuckChaser

Your information right now serves only to give people false hope. Every individual is evaluated on their condition at enrollment, and if its serious enough, they're not suitable to serve. If you have practical experience with ADHD diagnosis, treatment and its effect on military service, send it to D Med Pol in Ottawa. No one here is going to change the rules, and your "information" will just create strain on the system when an applicant says "Well this random person on the internet with unverifiable service and medical credentials says I should be fine, so I'm fine." The enrollment medical system has likely seen changes since you had your brief service in CAF (over 20 years ago), as has the nature of military service. 

If you read through this thread, you'll find some success stories where people were misdiagnosed as youth, and lots of stories where people were denied. Again, medical doctors (not higher education instructors) make these rules for who gets in. I'm very comfortable with their ability to find the best people for the job, the CAF is allowed to discriminate against disabilities due to the unique nature of military service and deployed environments.

You also completely failed to address the definition of ADHD:

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/index.shtml


> Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
> 
> Definition
> 
> Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a brain disorder marked by an ongoing pattern of inattention and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity that interferes with functioning or development.
> 
> Inattention means a person wanders off task, lacks persistence, has difficulty sustaining focus, and is disorganized; and these problems are not due to defiance or lack of comprehension.
> 
> Hyperactivity means a person seems to move about constantly, including in situations in which it is not appropriate; or excessively fidgets, taps, or talks. In adults, it may be extreme restlessness or wearing others out with constant activity.
> 
> Impulsivity means a person makes hasty actions that occur in the moment without first thinking about them and that may have high potential for harm; or a desire for immediate rewards or inability to delay gratification. An impulsive person may be socially intrusive and excessively interrupt others or make important decisions without considering the long-term consequences.



Inattention, hyperactivity or impulsivity (especially high potential for harm) are not traits I want for someone in a challenging combat situation. How does your experience see these symptoms manifest under high levels of stress without medication available? I'm willing to bet your anecdotal experience hasn't covered that extremely important situation.


----------



## Loachman

The Armed Forces do not exist to provide fun employment to people. They exist to defend this Country. That involves a variety of severe stresses and challenges, the need to kill people when required, and the need to function and survive under those conditions. Lives, mission success, and expensive and often irreplaceable equipment depend upon having the fittest and best-trained people possible. Reality can be harsh and unforgiveable.

Medical standards exist for good and valid reason. They have been challenged and effectively defended. I doubt that you'd find any currently-serving, or former, member willing to have somebody who does not meet medical (and other) standards serving beside them when lives are at stake.

Meet the standards, and enrollment is likely. Do not meet them, and do not expect to be enrolled. That may not be nice for the applicant, but it is necessary and right.


----------



## JMei001

Before I begin my post, I wanted to let you guys know I've searched and tediously read every post of the 23 pages of this thread lol (was exhausting)

My post is different because; it pertains to today and now, which is 7 hours after my medical exam (most posts ask in advance of their medical exams), and because I've never seen any post discuss ADD without receiving a letter for your GP to fill out.

Perfect hearing, perfect vision, in perfect health. I even came prepared with past vision and hearing tests, FORCE test results and 6 years of academic honour roll and distinction awards, which he appreciated my preparedness, but didn't require the documents. I mentioned my 'borderline' ADD diagnosis when I was 8-11 years old and having not taken medication since the age of 13. He presumed my ADD long resolved, and I had good chemistry with my evaluator. He sent me home without doing a sheet for my GP to fill out, not a drug test. I know I'm the end of the day it's up to the MO's in Ottawa, as previously read. 

I assume this is a good sign with regards to my ADD. Thoughts? Experience?

Also what's the next step? I would assume a long wait haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Loachman

If you read through twenty-three pages, I'd guess that you don't have ADD.

Regardless, don't overthink or worry about things too much.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

JMei001 said:
			
		

> He sent me home without doing a sheet for my GP to fill out, not a drug test.



They don't do drug tests for applicants so nothing out of the ordinary there..


----------



## JMei001

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> They don't do drug tests for applicants so nothing out of the ordinary there..


There's an entire other post to comment about, I was more curious about not getting a letter to being to my doctor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

JMei001 said:
			
		

> There's an entire other post to comment about, I was more curious about not getting a letter to being to my doctor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Comment about what? What exactly are you looking for? If you have a question regarding anything medical related and your application then contact your CFRC. As you said, you searched through 23 pages and couldn't find your answer..so why not just call the CFRC and get an answer from them? I also find it hard to believe you don't know the next step after a medical as there are several posts about just that.


----------



## JMei001

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Comment about what? What exactly are you looking for? If you have a question regarding anything medical related and your application then contact your CFRC. As you said, you searched through 23 pages and couldn't find your answer..so why not just call the CFRC and get an answer from them?


My question was one of opinion. I disclosed ADD to the med tech. I was asking what this means if he let me go without a letter to fill by my doctor to vouch for me like the people in previous posts have received. I think all this information is stated quite clearly in my post? Why would I contact my CFRC for something of subjective opinion. Seems mundane and frivolous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JMei001

Loachman said:
			
		

> If you read through twenty-three pages, I'd guess that you don't have ADD.
> 
> Regardless, don't overthink or worry about things too much.


Thanks bud, it's a lifelong dream, so it can get quite nerve-wracking and I tend to overthink in situations that matter a lot to me!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

JMei001 said:
			
		

> I was asking what this means if he let me go without a letter to fill by my doctor to vouch for me like the people in previous posts have received.


Why would anyone here know anything about what your CFRC medical staff did or did not do and why? If you don't see how calling the CFRC and talking to the medical staff that did the testing to clarify your disclosure of ADD then noone here can help you, that much is clear..because, once again..



			
				EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Because you are asking questions that literally noone but your CFRC would know.


----------



## JMei001

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Why would anyone here know anything about what your CFRC medical staff did or did not do and why? If you don't see how calling the CFRC and talking to the medical staff that did the testing to clarify your disclosure of ADD then noone here can help you, that much is clear.


No one said that anyone here would know what my CFRC staff did. Again, I wanted opinions on how my situation differs from others in the past 23 pages of this thread. If the answer to that is 'contact your CFRC' then that seems this thread useless. The answer 'contact your CFRC' would be appropriate if I asked a question like, "can I get into the military if I take medication for disease x?" Again, my question is a subjective one, that pertains to post-medical exam, especially since most people who seemed to have had ADD were presented with a letter to be vouched for by their physician.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

JMei001 said:
			
		

> No one said that anyone here would know what my CFRC staff did. Again, I wanted opinions on how my situation differs from others in the past 23 pages of this thread. If the answer to that is 'contact your CFRC' then that seems this thread useless. The answer 'contact your CFRC' would be appropriate if I asked a question like, "can I get into the military if I take medication for disease x?" Again, my question is a subjective one, that pertains to post-medical exam, especially since most people who seemed to have had ADD were presented with a letter to be vouched for by their physician.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So, you weren't given a letter like the others. What do you think that means? If you seriously can't figure this out you're going to have a rough time in the Forces.


----------



## Loachman

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> So, you weren't given a letter like the others. What do you think that means? If you seriously can't figure this out you're going to have a rough time in the Forces.



Let it go.

You are not contributing anything useful.


----------



## Loachman

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Thanks bud, it's a lifelong dream, so it can get quite nerve-wracking and I tend to overthink in situations that matter a lot to me!



So far, you have done everything asked and expected of you. There is no more that you can do now but wait.

Put effort and concern into things within your control. For those things outside of your control, you have no choice but to ride them out. Worrying about those things can be counter-productive.

Go for a run, read a book, have a beer, watch a movie. Far better uses of your time.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

Loachman said:
			
		

> Let it go.
> 
> You are not contributing anything useful.



Yes I can see how telling him to use his head isnt contributing anything useful and is trolling but telling him to go play outside and read a book is.   Seen.


----------



## Loachman

There is no need to go on and on in that fashion.

You may be an absolutely _wonderful_ person in real life. That is not how you are coming across here, though, and not just in this last exchange. Some patience and diplomacy is seldom a bad thing.


----------



## JMei001

Loachman said:
			
		

> There is no need to go on and on in that fashion.
> 
> You may be an absolutely _wonderful_ person in real life. That is not how you are coming across here, though, and not just in this last exchange. Some patience and diplomacy is seldom a bad thing.


I don't mean to continue to comment, as further abstaining is the adult thing to do in such a situation, but disrespectfully deconstructing my post is not the way to go about things, regardless of how it makes you feel. This thread is for those seeking answers to questions they may have regarding the recruiting process, *no matter* if it's been asked "a million times."  Sure, the onus on a curious person is to do a search, but with many years of information worth of threads, the task can become extremely tedious. A 30 second question can be answered with a **proper** thirty second answer, and a link to the previous question providing the info is correct. 

Also, refer back to what the Reddit moderator had told you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

Loachman said:
			
		

> There is no need to go on and on in that fashion.
> 
> You may be an absolutely _wonderful_ person in real life. That is not how you are coming across here, though, and not just in this last exchange. Some patience and diplomacy is seldom a bad thing.



Sorry I hurt your feelings in this post and apparently other posts.


----------



## Loachman

My feelings are not hurt, but I thank you kindly for your concern.

Wind yourself back in.


----------



## Cbass216

Hello,
I am a 21 year old university student that has dreamt of going into the army for a number of years. Recently i have applied for the CF as a weapon technician - land and was denied for ADHD (wrongly diagnosed) and Depression, this being at a very young age but have never taken any medication.
I have visited a psychiatrist and got everything in order clearing me up of both ailments and don't take medication for either and have not for over 10 years.
I have been told to send my files i have now to the recruiting medical offices in ottowa and was wondering if anyone has been through this process and what other avenue i can take to appeal the process?
Such as talking to my recruiter with files in hand or seeing a certain doctor, ect.
Thank you for reading this post.


----------



## sarahsmom

They have special doctors in Ottawa who make these decisions on a case by case basis. Seeing your recruiter with your medical files in hand will do nothing.
The process for the appeal should have been outlined in your rejection letter. Follow those steps and *IF* it is something that needs re-evaluation or new information which changes your condition in THEIR eyes, you may be reconsidered for service.
It's not just the fact that you have never needed medication that is the issue. Depression can be a serious condition. The doctors and specialists in Ottawa will examine how they feel your condition might change if exposed to the hardships of tasking and deployments. While you may be perfectly healthy otherwise and your condition would not hinder your profession civvy-side, the military is an entirely different thing.


----------



## mariomike

Cbass216 said:
			
		

> I have been told to send my files i have now to the recruiting medical offices in ottowa and was wondering if anyone has been through this process and what other avenue i can take to appeal the process?



Challenging a medical decision/Requesting second review  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37404/post-1461930.html#msg1461930

As always, Recruiting ( Medical ) is your most trusted source of official up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


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## Xylric

Had an interesting discussion with a group of retired US military members (consisting generally of officers who would be in a position to make the following observations). More or less, the claim was made from a former medical officer that it is reasonable to conclude that certain trades have a higher proportion of members with the *traits* of ADD/ADHD or ASD, among others, given that the beneficial advantage of these traits may serve well for the role - for example, a pilot who has an innate sense of where North is due to an enhanced sense of magneto-reception is going to be a far more effective navigator than someone who does not, just as someone whose brain has a quirk which makes the part of the brain which deals with math blend into their visual cortex is going to have a far better sense of aim.

Given, however, that these are US members who have all retired from service more than a decade ago, most of their information borders on useless, save for that which is empirically valid (such as the existence of a human magnetic sense - one of the officers now works as a physics professor, and demonstrates his own as a Day 1 demonstration). It does bring to mind a particular question - given that it is entirely possible for a person to reach adulthood without any form of diagnosis for neurodevelopmental conditions, what is likely to happen to someone who is only diagnosed during their service? I happen to personally know a Padre who was diagnosed with Aspergers less than a year after he retired from service, so I have reason to believe that there are others like themselves.

As for me, I was diagnosed with a learning disability as a child, but had my paperwork vanish over the years - most likely because as I am a twin, the existence of two files bearing the same surname with a minimal numerical difference led to a perfectly reasonable (though irritating) conclusion that one of those files was a duplicate. I'm 34 now, and I learned that I was in my second year of post-secondary education (so 15 years ago) when my mother finally stopped trying to figure out what had happened. Honestly? I like to think that I've done incredibly well for myself - I'm a member of MENSA, I run a business worth more than $700K, and honestly have never needed any medication. Most important thing I ever learned in my education was not just how I learn specifically, but how to _enjoy_ learning. Whatever "disability" I had is either gone or has been turned into just another tool.

My attitude towards it is very simple - either it is going to pose an issue with my application, at which point I will be given an even greater knowledge of myself than I currently possess, or it is going to be a non-issue. Either way, I gain a productive benefit. I think this is the healthiest perspective to take.


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