# u-boat attacks on canadian soil in WW2



## wannabe SF member (26 Apr 2007)

Last time i read that there had been u-boat attacks on canadian soil and in newfoundland as well as sinking of ships in the st-laurent.
(happened during the second world war)

anybody has a reliable internet source for that or some additional info


----------



## Michael OLeary (26 Apr 2007)

Google search u-boat lawrence canada


Google can be your friend.


----------



## McG (26 Apr 2007)

Chawki Bensalem said:
			
		

> Last time i read that there had been u-boat attacks on canadian soil and in newfoundland as well as sinking of ships in the st-laurent.


Plenty of U-Boat activity in Canadian waters, but the only submarine attack on Canadian soil was an ineffective bombardment of a lighthouse by a Japanese vessel on the West Coast.

For a ref, try this: http://www.amazon.com/Military-History-Canada-Desmond-Morton/dp/0771065140


----------



## CrazyCanuck (26 Apr 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> Plenty of U-Boat activity in Canadian waters, but the only submarine attack on Canadian soil was an ineffective bombardment of a lighthouse by a Japanese vessel on the West Coast.
> 
> For a ref, try this: http://www.amazon.com/Military-History-Canada-Desmond-Morton/dp/0771065140



Know a member of the ship that chased that boat away, apparently their gun was made of wood.


----------



## geo (26 Apr 2007)

Heh....
then there is the "remote" weather station that the Germans set up on the labrador coast.
Was only discovered +/-25 yrs later


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO (26 Apr 2007)

This one happened just off the approaches to Halifax Harbour
In today's paper here. Next weekend we celebrate Battle of Atlantic...plenty of U boat attacks in Canadian waters.....not widely publicized at the time due to Govt not wanting to panick the public.


Remembrance at sea 

Ceremony marks sinking of HMCS Esquimalt by Germans during Second World War 

By PAUL EVEREST 


When the Canadian navy tugboat Glenevis finished its three-hour journey to a stretch of water off Chebucto Head on Wednesday, there were prayers, a moment of silence and a romping banjo rendition of When the Saints Go Marching In. 

This was Scott Macmillan’s way of commemorating the minesweeper HMCS Esquimalt, which sank in that area on the morning of April 16, 1945, and was captained by his father, Lt.-Cmdr. Robert C. Macmillan. He and 25 others survived, but more than 40 sailors lost their lives.

"I just wanted to say thanks to the men who died on the ships that made our country what it is today," Mr. Macmillan said, his eyes shining with tears in the brilliant afternoon sunshine, adding that he played the banjo to honour one of the men who played the instrument on the ship during the Second World War.

Making the journey with his wife, Jennifer, and son Ian, Mr. Macmillan, 52, of Halifax said he was looking for inspiration for a musical suite he is composing to pay tribute to the Esquimalt called Within Sight of Shore. He hopes to premiere the piece next April in Lunenburg.

But the venture was also about making a connection with the ship’s last known position.

"To come to the actual site is more of a feeling thing to me," he said. "The whole sinking of the ship has been shrouded in somewhat of a mystery at home. I wanted to come out and get a feeling of what it would be like to be in the frigid water for six hours. 

"Just to think of the courage of those people, the determination to live. To appreciate what those people have done for us in a really tangible way."

Joining Mr. Macmillan for the commemoration was George (Buck) Taylor, who was serving as a 19-year-old able seaman aboard the Esquimalt when it was hunting German submarines that April morning at the mouth of Halifax Harbour. He was taking a break from manning a primitive sonar device known as an ASDIC at about 6:30 a.m. when the enemy he was searching for snuck up and fired a torpedo into the ship’s starboard side, near its depth-charge storage room.

"It all happened so fast," he said. "I went out on the wing of the bridge as daylight was breaking to have a smoke and get some fresh air, and the next thing I know I was in the water."

Mr. Taylor of Westphal, now 81, said he spent nearly six hours in the water, singing and joking around with other survivors to keep warm, before being rescued by the Esquimalt’s sister ship, HMCS Sarnia, whose crew plucked survivors from the sea and gave them blankets, cigarettes and the odd "shot of rum." Getting the chance to come back to the site of the sinking was one he jumped at, and the memories flooded in during the ceremony.

"Where I was when people that I’ve known perished," he explained. "It brings back faces, people that you knew."

Lt. Pat Jessup, who was first approached by Mr. Macmillan about a commemoration when he was searching for his father’s medals, said the Canadian navy wanted to be involved with the trip because the Esquimalt, the last Canadian warship lost to enemy action during the war, was "one of our own."

"All our losses mean a lot to us and if we can assist in the commemoration, we’ll do that," she said on the deck of the Glenevis as it returned to port, adding that the navy will begin commemorating the 67th anniversary of the beginning of the Battle of the Atlantic next week.

( peverest@herald.ca)


----------



## Mike Baker (26 Apr 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Heh....
> then there is the "remote" weather station that the Germans set up on the labrador coast.
> Was only discovered +/-25 yrs later


I never heard of that before. Have a link or something I could check out?


----------



## Michael OLeary (26 Apr 2007)

Google search german weather station labrador


Google can be your friend too.


----------



## Mike Baker (26 Apr 2007)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Google can be your friend too.


My only friend is Army.ca   Thanks for the link.


----------



## wannabe SF member (26 Apr 2007)

found a link on wikipedia for attacks by japan and germany on North american soil in cluding Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_North_America_during_World_War_II

some pretty scary stuff sometimes


----------



## FascistLibertarian (27 Apr 2007)

Check out Battle of St. Lawrence by Nathan Greenfield. The Germans even dropped off 2 spys in Canada! Kind of ironic we locked up all the Japanese. My grandfather said that at the time they (the soldiers stationed in the UK at least) had no idea all this stuff was going on. The germans did some serious damange against us, we really were not prepared.
Marc Milner at Laurier has written a lot of good stuff as well.
I am pretty sure that our part of the Atlantic was the only time we ever had a Canadian in charge of an active theatre in ww2.


----------



## andpro (27 Apr 2007)

For anyone in the Ottawa area there is a special exhibit on the U-boat activity in the St.Laurence right next to the Afghanistan exhibit.


----------



## Rad (27 Apr 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> Plenty of U-Boat activity in Canadian waters, but the only submarine attack on Canadian soil was an ineffective bombardment of a lighthouse by a Japanese vessel on the West Coast.
> 
> For a ref, try this: http://www.amazon.com/Military-History-Canada-Desmond-Morton/dp/0771065140



This is not true.  There actually was a case of a U-Boat Attack on Newfoundland Soil, which is now part of Canada.  U-518 fired a torpedo that hit Scotia Pier on Bell Island in 1942, and also sank 4 Ships killing over 60 men.  As far as i know this is the only stike of German subs on ANY North American soil in WW2.  There is a book on the events called "The Enemy On Our Doorstep" by Steve Neary.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/bi_sinkings.html


----------



## AJFitzpatrick (27 Apr 2007)

Rad said:
			
		

> This is not true.  There actually was a case of a U-Boat Attack on Newfoundland Soil, which is now part of Canada.  U-518 fired a torpedo that hit Scotia Pier on Bell Island in 1942, and also sank 4 Ships killing over 60 men.  As far as i know this is the only stike of German subs on ANY North American soil in WW2.  There is a book on the events called "The Enemy On Our Doorstep" by Steve Neary.
> 
> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/bi_sinkings.html



Was it a deliberate attack on the pier or a miss on a ship? Bell Island was a significant iron ore producer and if the pier was knocked out it would have had an marked effect on production but a torpedo doesn't seem to me to be the right weapon to choose against a pier.


----------



## Rad (27 Apr 2007)

While the torpedo was intended for a ship, it stuck the pier.  Intentionally or not, it was hit.  As for the best way to attack a pier, I'm not really sure what would be the best way, although torpedos were all they had so if they had intended to strike the pier it is more than likley what they would have used.

R.


----------



## armyvern (27 Apr 2007)

History boys,

The German UBoat "U69 " torpedoed and sunk the passenger ferry (MV) _Caribou_ on it's regular scheduled run from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland. My grandmother's name can be found amogst the list of 136 who died that night; 14 Oct 1942.

Edited post to reflect 136 victims of this sinking vice the 137 I had originally listed.


----------



## wannabe SF member (28 Apr 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> History boys,
> 
> The German UBoat "U69 " torpedoed and sunk the passenger ferry (MV) _Caribou_ on it's regular scheduled run from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland the night of Sept 3rd 1939. My grandmother's name can be found amogst the list of 137 who died that night; 14 Oct 1942.



very sorry for that  

woud you happen to have a link to a list of the victims.


----------



## Michael OLeary (29 Apr 2007)

CHAWKI, TRY USING GOOGLE

From a Google search on "caribou victims", the first hit:



> S.S. Caribou - victims list
> S.S. Caribou - names of 136 persons who lost their lives October 14, 1942 near Port aux Basques, Newfoundland as a result of enemy submarine action. ...
> visitnewfoundland.ca/victims.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages



http://visitnewfoundland.ca/victims.html

TRY THINKING FOR YOURSELF PLEASE.

WELCOME TO THE INTERNET, USE IT.

And in case you can't still find it from the link above:



> S.S. Caribou - names of 136 persons who lost their lives October 14, 1942 near Port aux Basques, Newfoundland as a result of enemy submarine action.
> 
> They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in deep waters see the works of the Lord and His wonders in the deep. Psalm 107:23
> 
> ...


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Apr 2007)

Interesting, I never realized there were British and American personnel onboard, thanks Michael.


----------



## armyvern (29 Apr 2007)

Mrs. Helen Wightman (a nurse) would be it. She was on her way over to visit my grandfather Ralph, who was stationed in St John's at the time.


----------



## Shec (29 Apr 2007)

An incident which may or may not have something to do with U-boat attacks on what is now Canada was the disasterous 1942 fire of the Knight's of Columbus Hostel,  a serviceman's leave centre in St. John's,  which some purport to be the work of a German agent who in turn may have been landed by U-boat.

http://www.janetmcnaughton.ca/fire.html

A distant relative of mine,Ordinary Seaman Irving Epstein RCNVR,  from Montreal died in that fire.


----------



## 3rd Herd (30 Apr 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> Plenty of U-Boat activity in Canadian waters, but the only submarine attack on Canadian soil was an ineffective bombardment of a lighthouse by a Japanese vessel on the West Coast.
> 
> For a ref, try this: http://www.amazon.com/Military-History-Canada-Desmond-Morton/dp/0771065140



History Lesson Boys and Girls:

Known:

1) Dec 18,1941: Japanese submarine I-25 fires 10 deck gun shots at L.P. St. Clair, who shelters in mouth of the Columbia River.
2) Dec 18,1941: Japanese submarine I-17 torpodes and damages SS Samoa off Cape Medocino, Calforinia
3) Dec 20, 1941: Japanese submarine I-17 shells and sinks the tanker Emido
4) Dec 20, 1941: Japanese submarine I-23 shells Tanker Agiworld, then I-23 shells and disables small gunboat off Monterey Bay
5) Dec 20, 1941: Japanese submarine 1-15 rammed by garbadge scow off Okland California
6) Dec ?, 1941: Japanese submarine I-9 chases Tanker Idaho off Oregon Coast
7) Dec 22, 1941: Japanese submarine I-21  unsuccessful attack on Tanker HM Story
8) Dec 23, 1941: Japanese submarine I-21 sinks Tanker Montebello
9) Dec 24, 1941: Japanese submarine I-9 attempt to sink lumber carrier Barbara Olson
10) Dec 24,1941: Japanese submarine I-19 fires two torpedos at freighter Absoroka, one strikes but lumber cargo keeps freighter afloat.
11) Dec 29, 1941: RCN reports "Japanese submarine" 10 miles from Victoria (possible I-26).Stranraer flying boat hits trees on take from Ucluelet, four killed.
12) Jan 1, 1942: HMCS Outrade attacks and damages a "submarine " off the north end of Vancouver Island
13) January 17, 1942: 6 pounder on Odden Point opens fire on a "Japanese submarine"
14) January 17, 1942: US Army Aircraft report camouflaged surfaced "submarine" off  west coast of Vancouer Island.
15) Feb ? 1942: Japanese Glen performs reconanise flight over Prince Rupert. Coal Harbour also subjected to overflights as early as Jan. 1942
16) Feb 24, 1942: Japanese submarine I-17 starts "Battle of Los Angeles"
17) June 7/8, 1942: Japanese submarine I-26 sinks the SS Coastal Trader of the mouth of the Straits of Juan De Fuca
18) June 14, 1942: unidentified submarine sinks frieghter Ocean Vengance off the mouth of the Strait of Juan De Fuca, RCN patrol boat from Port Renfrew attacks submarine.
19) June 20th, 1942: Japanese submarine I-26 attacks/shells light house at Estevan Point.( aircraft at Patricia Bay crashes blocking runway, HMCS Santa Marie, HMCS San Tomas respond)
20) June 19/20, 1942: Japanese Submarine I-25 attacks SS Fort Camosun off Vancouver Island.
21) July 9, 1942: Bolingbroke #9118 helps sink a "Japanese submarine" with two US Coast Guard vessels in assistance off the British Columbia coast.
22) July 30, 1942: Japanese submarine I-26 attacks and sinks Soviet submarine IL-6 in the Stait of Juan De Fuca
23) August 23, 1942: the crew of a Stranarer Flying boat is loast in action against a Japanese submarine 49'47N,130'30W off Vancouver Island
24) Sept 9, 1942: Japanese submarine I-25 launches  Glen seaplane on first "fire bomb" raid off Cape Blanco.
25) Marc 1943: Japanese submarines I-34, I-35, modified to launch "fire balloons" from 620 miles off US/Canada Coast. 
26) March 1943: FV Oslo finds overturned "Glen seaplane(Yokosuka E14Y1)" off  15 miles off Juan De Fuca, attempts to tow into harbour, rough seas causes plane to sink
27) Various crashes until end of war contribute to losses of RCAF crews
 ;D


Edit to add:

"Dr. Delgado,
I am wondering about a Japanese submarine wreck off the Oregon Coast, specically Cape Kiwanda. Has anyone confirmed that this was in fact a Japanese submarine. My reference for this is Bert Webber's "Silent Seige" pg. 357. Thank you very much 
Alec"

"Dear Alec:

The story keeps cropping up, but no one has been down, located the wreck and come up with photos - it does not mean it isn't there, but for now, it remains in the dubious category.  The principal activity by I-boats and a few RO-class submarines of the Imperial Japanese Navy on the Pacific Coast is well documented, and other than the Aleutians losses (such as Ro-65) there are none thought to have happened on the North American mainland...but you never know.

James Delgado"


VP


----------



## armyvern (30 Apr 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> History Lesson Boys and Girls:
> 
> Known:
> 
> ;D



Nice List. They seem to have neglected the MV Caribou. Perhaps they are implying that the attack upon it by U69 during it's run from Cape Breton to Newfoundland did not occur in Canadian territorial waters as Newfoundland was not yet a part of Canada on that date. Regardless, sorry, but I'll go with my relatives death certificate as proof it occured. Sadly, she's not around to question their list anymore.


----------



## AJFitzpatrick (30 Apr 2007)

Looks like a strictly Pacific Coast list since it also does not include the RCN/RN/USN losses in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

HMCS Racoon
HMCS Charlottetown
HMCS Shawinigan


----------



## 3rd Herd (4 May 2007)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> Looks like a strictly Pacific Coast list since it also does not include the RCN/RN/USN losses in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.



You are correct AJ, as the list is exclusively West Coast. Given that that popular perception war occurred in the either in two directions; the Aleutian Campaign or the "only attack on Canadian soil" being the Cape Estevan lighthouse shelling. I kept this strictly in the submarine genre but it is interesting to note the amount of causalities suffered particularly in the air verses submarine conflict. The list of loses of aircraft and aircrew is extensive and one most not over look loses in the ground crew trades. An excellent source on this is Jericho Beach and the West Coast Flying Boat Stations by Weicht, Chris published in 1997. In his appendices there is an exact by aircraft type breakdown of losses both human and material. For the official history or the air verses submarine on either coast a good starting point is The Crucible of War 1939-1945, The Official History of the Royal Canadian Air Force series a collaborative project by Greenhous, Harris, Johnston and Rawling. The airforce version of C.P. Stacey's official army history. An additional two book read on the U-boat east coast theme is Operation Drumbeat  and Black May  by Canadian author Micheal Gannon. Currently, I am working my way through amongst others Miracle at Midway  as the author and research group have put together and to a certain extent "corrected" more than a few historical errors. Their reasoning for the actual destruction in regard to the carrier USS Lexington is worth the read itself. Sorry for the brief hijack, back to the East coast.


----------



## time expired (31 May 2007)

Urban myth,maybe,
                           Heard this from a old German submariner who heard it from a member
of another crew,so third hand information.That a U boat crew went ashore in a north shore
Quebec village bought supplies and even went to a movie using captured US dollars.This 
was early in the war and the Germans were still pretty cocky,sound like something Kapitan
Prien might have tried.
                            Regards


----------



## geo (31 May 2007)

Going to a movie in north shore Quebec?
I dunno..... the villages were all french speaking - so the few movies that would be available wold have to have been in french AND, there weren't all that many back then.

U Boat crews coming ashore? - definitely - they were setting up remote weather stations inbetween their attacks on shipping.


----------



## AJFitzpatrick (31 May 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Going to a movie in north shore Quebec?
> I dunno..... the villages were all french speaking - so the few movies that would be available wold have to have been in french AND, there weren't all that many back then.



Raised a red flag for me as well



> U Boat crews coming ashore? - definitely - they were setting up remote weather stations inbetween their attacks on shipping.


Also landing spies, including a supposed triple agent. Also wasn't 49th parallel a documentary  ;D


----------



## CrazyCanuck (1 Jun 2007)

The weather station wasn't found by the RCMP untill around the 60's I think, and I know that one German spy was quickly apprehended because his money was all circa 1917 taken off the bodies of Canadian Soldiers.


----------



## geo (1 Jun 2007)

oik... cdn soldiers in france & flanders in 1917 would not have had cdn currency on their person.
French & belgian currency woulda made more sense.

Any Cdn currency theses spies woulda had would be the currency german banks woulda had on hand in 1939 at the outbreak of war.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (1 Jun 2007)

I seem to remember some shelling by U-boats on the east coast. It was common for them to use their guns to save on torpedo's. Plus in the early years the response from the RCN, RCAF would have been limited.


----------



## 3rd Herd (7 Jun 2007)

And yes everyone does over look the previous war:

"Then on the morning of July 21, 1918, U-156 brazenly bombarded a tug and several barges off Cape Cod in broad daylight while vacationers looked on from the beach. During the bombardment, shells landed amid some cottages." While on the Canadian side of the boarder "Local newspapers were soon awash in lurid stories of U-156 lying offshore, signalling spies based in Nova Scotia while the navy and the army dithered. The district intelligence officer in German-settled Lunenburg County was unable to cope with the flood of “information” on local turncoats. He wanted the army deployed and martial law declared. The arrival of dory loads of  fishermen along the Nova Scotia and Newfoundland coasts, telling tales of German piracy just offshore, pointed to the Royal Canadian Navy’s inability to defend the fishing fleet. Canadians, not least politicians and the media, expected the navy to protect their shipping. The navy was under no illusions that it could. The fishing fleet was far too dispersed to protect in any event, and the navy lacked the vessels to do so."

Source:
Hadley, Michael L. U-boats against Canada: German Submarines in Canadian Waters.

Milner, Marc  "The U-boat Summer of 1918" http://www.legionmagazine.com/features/canadianmilitaryhistory/05-03.asp


----------



## wannabe SF member (7 Jun 2007)

Rad said:
			
		

> although torpedos were all they had so if they had intended to strike the pier it is more than likley what they would have used.
> 
> R.



Actually some u-boats had deck guns for when they were on the surface.
The type VII, the most widely used, had an 88 mm gun as well as flak weaponry aside from their torpedoes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_VII_U-boat
http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-type-vii.shtml


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (7 Jun 2007)

Chawki Bensalem said:
			
		

> Actually some u-boats had deck guns for when they were on the surface.
> The type VII, the most widely used, had an 88 mm gun as well as flak weaponry aside from their torpedoes.
> 
> 
> ...



As was pointed out by Colin above...


----------

