# Advices on my personal situation



## Omykron23 (26 May 2010)

Hello to all,
I've been reading your forum for quite a time already and I thought that some of your guidance could truly help me.

I am actually a student of Secondary 5 (last year of High School) in Quebec's educational system, I applied last December for the preparatory year in CMR St-Jean. As you guys probably know, high school in Quebec is one year shorter than in the rest of Canada. Therefore, accepted appliants to the RMC have to spend one or two years in CMRSJ before going to Kingston.

The three trades I've selected were Pilot, Air Navigator and Artillery Officer.
I've been denied to the Pilot formation through the interview and I didn't score high enough in the AIRNAV test in order to enter the Air Navigator trade. My CFAT test went pretty well and I scored decently enough to be accepted in the Artillery Officer program.

The problem however is that I've been waiting for the answer already for a long time. I didn't apply to a civvie CÉGEP thinking that RMC would take me. But if however I don't get chosen, waiting a year to get back to school would not be good to me.

They told me that I didn't get chosen for the first round because they were still waiting for some medical papers and the second round is in late June. Why so late??!

I had quite high marks in my last years (average around 90%) but this year has been more difficult mainly because of my personal activities limited my studying time. 
I am bilingual (spent all my years in french schools and my English isn't so bad) and of a visible minority (Vietnamese, born there, came when I was 5). I also participate actively in varsity sport teams, been captain of my school's soccer team last year.
I volunteer at school to give tuition to younger students and I also give vietnamese classes at my church.
I had many jobs before applying from Mcdonald's to a computer shop...

My recruiting center (Montreal) has not been very helpful lately and some people contradict themselves. I've been told once through the phone that I've been accepted, I called back the next day to know if there's any papers I need to take and the other person told me that I've been accepted to the trade but they're still waiting for the CMR's answer. 
And another time I've been told that the results will be given around May 21st, I called yesterday (May 25th) and another person told me that I should be waiting around the 1st of July??

 :-\


I'd like to know you guys opinion on my chances to get accepted and when should I be expecting an answer.
It's quite weird that CMR wait so long while all the RMC answers are already given.


Thank you very much


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## aesop081 (26 May 2010)

Omykron23 said:
			
		

> I didn't apply to a civvie CÉGEP thinking that RMC would take me.



Bad planining on your part.




> But if however I don't get chosen, waiting a year to get back to school would not be good to me.



Thats not the military's problem. You made a poor decision based on a bad assumption. Sorry but that just how it is.




> and of a visible minority



So ?


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## Omykron23 (26 May 2010)

I've been told that I am currently on the merit list, that I should only be waiting for an answer.
Do most people on the list make it?


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## Alea (26 May 2010)

Hi Omykron,



			
				Omykron23 said:
			
		

> Hello to all,
> I've been reading your forum for quite a time already and I thought that some of your guidance could truly help me.



Good! If you keep on reading other threads on the forum, you will see that a lot of us have been waiting for a long time. The reading will also help you understand that you're not the only one in this situation and you'll find a lot of your answers through other's experiences.



> The problem however is that I've been waiting for the answer already for a long time. I didn't apply to a civvie CÉGEP thinking that RMC would take me. But if however I don't get chosen, waiting a year to get back to school would not be good to me.



It might not be too late to apply to a CEGEP.



> They told me that I didn't get chosen for the first round because they were still waiting for some medical papers and the second round is in late June. Why so late??!



Why so late? Hmmm... the case is different from one file to another. 



> I had quite high marks in my last years (average around 90%)
> I am bilingual (spent all my years in french schools and my English isn't so bad) and of a visible minority (Vietnamese, born there, came when I was 5). I also participate actively in varsity sport teams, been captain of my school's soccer team last year.
> I volunteer at school to give tuition to younger students and I also give vietnamese classes at my church.
> I had many jobs before applying from Mcdonald's to a computer shop...



All this sounds pretty positive to me. 



> My recruiting center (Montreal) has not been very helpful lately and some people contradict themselves. I've been told once through the phone that I've been accepted, I called back the next day to know if there's any papers I need to take and the other person told me that I've been accepted to the trade but they're still waiting for the CMR's answer.
> And another time I've been told that the results will be given around May 21st, I called yesterday (May 25th) and another person told me that I should be waiting around the 1st of July??



Recruiters are human beings. They are extremely busy. I'm not sure wether you've been mislead or not but I suggest you try to speak to the same person all the time rather than a different person each time. 



> I'd like to know you guys opinion on my chances to get accepted and when should I be expecting an answer.
> It's quite weird that CMR wait so long while all the RMC answers are already given.



Speak with your recruiter. Only him/her can answer this question. None of us here know how long it will take.

Alea


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## SeanNewman (26 May 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So ?



Agreed 100%.  Race, gender, orientation, etc will get you no points one way or the other.  If you can do the job that's great.

Expecting special points due to being a minority is racist against non-minorities the same way a white guy expecting special treatment would be racist.

Can't we all just be equal for once, please?


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## Alea (26 May 2010)

Omykron23 said:
			
		

> I've been told that I am currently on the merit list, that I should only be waiting for an answer.
> Do most people on the list make it?



The CF hires accordingly to their needs. If you're on a merit list (Congratulations!) it means you've done a good impression. Now, all you have to do is wait... patiently  :nod:

Alea


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## Omykron23 (26 May 2010)

Thanks a lot to all for your answers.
I get there's nothing to do but to wait.

And for the minority thing, I have a cousin living in California (we asians often have family all around the world) and he applied to the Naval Academy to become a Marine Corps officer and got accepted.
He told me that in the States, it's often easier to get accepted if you're a minority since they're trying to create an ethnic diversity in their armed forces.

I thought the case would be the same here.


Thanks to you all


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## Alea (26 May 2010)

Omykron23 said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot to all for your answers.
> I get there's nothing to do but to wait.
> 
> And for the minority thing, I have a cousin living in California (we asians often have family all around the world) and he applied to the Naval Academy to become a Marine Corps officer and got accepted.
> ...



Hi Omykron,

Good for your cousin!

Canadian Forces hire people regardless of their color, culture, nationalities, gender etcetera... The CF will hire depending of their needs in different trades and you will be enrolled depending on the fact that you pass all the required steps:
- Background check
- CFAT
- Medical
- Interview

Wether you are Asian, French, English, Italian, Arab does not make a difference. Actually a lot of people from different background/nationalities are part of the CF.

You may want to check in with your recruiting center on a regular basic just to find out the news with your file.

Take care and good luck,
Alea


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## macknightcr (27 May 2010)

I live in the US right now, and have most of my life.  I can assure you that the Navy did not take him because he is Asian.  A lot of people say that because of Affirmative Action that minorities are awarded jobs over white people, but the military does not care.  They want the best, as does the CF, and if you aren't you won't be picked up.   I can't believe that you think racism is acceptable or would be applied in this process.  

Oh and many applicants, like me, have heard they will be attending CMR this year.  CMR has told people that they have been selected just like RMC.


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## Eye In The Sky (27 May 2010)

Omykron23 said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot to all for your answers.
> I get there's nothing to do but to wait.
> 
> And for the minority thing, I have a cousin living in California (we asians often have family all around the world) and he applied to the Naval Academy to become a Marine Corps officer and got accepted.
> ...



In the military people often put their life in the hands of others.  

Speaking for myself, I don't care what color, religion, race the person I work with, and put my life in their hands, like say the pilots, or ground crew, techs, whoever...I only care that the best possible person is doing the job, is qualified to do that job and actually cares about doing that job.

But...thats just me.  I am not a fan of quotas and the like when it comes to military service.  Save that for the Barny show or something like that, where everything is PC and whatever.

Good luck in your application and possible training.


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## SupersonicMax (27 May 2010)

To keep going on the tangent, I remember arguing with my RMC Ethics professor (fourth year) about the visible minority topic.  She was Personnel Selection Officer, so it's fair to assume she knew what she was talking about.  

She told the class that indeed, minority will get preferential treatment over the "standard" white male, as long as the visible minority meets the standard, regardless of how he/she ranks compared to the white male.  She supported that. 

Now, I personally think it is not right, and that the selection should be made on the basis of who is better qualified, regardless of race, religion, color, gender, etc.


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## Rogo (30 May 2010)

For those who don't feel that certain areas of canadian society likely employ more minorities than non minorities pay attention to Customs in Airports.   It's either selected based on trying to show ethnic diversity when leaving and entering canada or maybe just 20% or less of the applicants for the job are non-white.  Just found that interesting, I can't think of many other places where you see that in Canada.    I'm not for nor opposed...just stating an observation.


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## bdave (30 May 2010)

Rogo said:
			
		

> For those who don't feel that certain areas of canadian society likely employ more minorities than non minorities pay attention to Customs in Airports.   It's either selected based on trying to show ethnic diversity when leaving and entering canada or maybe just 20% or less of the applicants for the job are non-white.  Just found that interesting, I can't think of many other places where you see that in Canada.    I'm not for nor opposed...just stating an observation.



I think this is apparent in many places. Especially company websites.
Affirmative action isn't far behind.


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## SeanNewman (30 May 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Now, I personally think it is not right, and that the selection should be made on the basis of who is better qualified, regardless of race, religion, color, gender, etc.



And you would have the power of the Canadian public behind you to say that.

Canadians have stated conclusively in many surveys that they do not want affirmative action because it is flat-out racism (as you stated, against white people).

Canadians want people to be equal, period, and the CF Statement of Defence Ethics puts "Respect the Dignity of All People" as its number one point.

CF recruiters or any sort of public service who even include any sort of "what race are you" question are violating the will of Canadian people and Charter rights.

Luckily the pendulum is swinging slightly back from the ridiculously over-PC slant of about 1995-2005 and getting more toward common sense.  It doesn't matter that I'm white or black, but it's not considered racist to call someone white or black to describe them.


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## mariomike (30 May 2010)

bdave said:
			
		

> Affirmative action isn't far behind.



"The roots of employment equity are in the 1984 Abella Commission, chaired by Judge Rosalie Abella. She considered the US term, *affirmative action*, but decided not to use that term because of the emotions and ill will surrounding affirmative action. In its place she created the term “employment equity” for the Canadian context.":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_equity_(Canada)#History

"Canadian Forces Employment Equity Regulations":
http://canadagazette.gc.ca/archives/p1/2002/2002-06-15/html/reg1-eng.html


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## SeanNewman (30 May 2010)

"Employment Equity"...how ironic.

Literally meaning "If X percent of the population is made up for purple people, then X percent of the job must be purple people".

It is absolutely ridiculous and 100% racist to do that because it leads to the mathematical certainty that you will have to say "We can not hire you because you are green", because that quota will be filled.

It might be equity, but it sure as hell isn't equality or neutrality.

I have a radical idea (_a dream_, actually), how about we stop caring about race for any reason?  What a concept!  As per what they other gents wrote above, god forbid we'd actually hirepeople who want the job and score the highest on entry tests.


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## Rogo (30 May 2010)

Is this not similar to the double standard between men and women in the Physical tests.  Pushups and such.

If I am working in theatre I don't care what colour, gender, creed, or who they pray or don't pray to...but to have someone take a different physical test will keep them at a disadvantage if they cannot run as far with a pack on their back and rifle in their hand.  Not to upset others but this is another entrenched example where equality doesn't go fully through the CF process.


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## SeanNewman (30 May 2010)

Rogo said:
			
		

> Is this not similar to the double standard between men and women in the Physical tests.  Pushups and such.



Yes it is.  It is not politically correct to say so but it is 100% legally correct.

To base fitness standards on different bell curves to ensure that X percentile of each gender passes is unequivocal gender discrimination:

1. The person responsible for making these charts is essentially saying that women are inferior and need a separate test; and

2. It is discriminatory against men, because it allows for situations when men out-perform women on the raw numbers but fail the test when the women pass.  For example, if a man can do 15 push ups but a woman can do 12, she will pass and he will fail.  I honestly have no idea how this has not yet been legally challenged because it could not be any more in-your-face discrimination.


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## Rogo (30 May 2010)

If it becomes the same fitness standards you will have some so called "Womens rights activists" claiming that now less women are making it into the CF however if you leave the standard it is blatent discrimination. 

The truth of it is neither of these reasons are really important compared to the third and most important factor. If the job needs doing and someone for any reason cannot do so because of a physical, racial, "whatever", limitation... it could get them or someone else killed.


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## Good2Golf (30 May 2010)

Back on topic, please, folks.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


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## Rogo (31 May 2010)

What was the question?


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## Rogo (31 May 2010)

Oh ya, posting on here won't get you much more info than your RC can give you. Call them and tolerate the necessary confusion. If you think you're irritated just imagine how they must feel with trying to find out the same information, passing it on, and dealing with all our phone calls.

And not applying to Cegep was plain poor planning. 


Now back to Inequality in the Forces...jk ;P


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## captloadie (31 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> CF recruiters or any sort of public service who even include any sort of "what race are you" question are violating the will of Canadian people and Charter rights.



Umm, I'm going to do some digging for examples, because I'm sure that I have seen employment opportunity advertisements for the public service that clearly state that priority will be given to qualified (not the most qualified) applicants who meet the definition of being either a visible minority, female, physically handicapped, or aboriginal.


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## SeanNewman (31 May 2010)

Capt Loadie,

We have been warned to get this back on topic so I'll keep this short.  Yes you are right that these questions do get asked, but what I am saying is that I have no idea how it is legal to do it because it is outright racism and sexism.


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## aesop081 (31 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> but what I am saying is that I have no idea how it is legal to do it because it is outright racism and sexism.



.......and now you know why it is legal for them to ask. They are required to do so by law :



> The Act requires that the Canadian Forces:
> 
> — collect information and conduct an analysis of their work force to determine the degree of under representation of members in designated groups;



http://canadagazette.gc.ca/archives/p1/2002/2002-06-15/html/reg1-eng.html


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## mariomike (31 May 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> .......and now you know why it is legal for them to ask. They are required to do so by law :
> http://canadagazette.gc.ca/archives/p1/2002/2002-06-15/html/reg1-eng.html



"What is the purpose of the Employment Equity Act?":
http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/publications/ee_faq_ee-en.asp#1


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## bdave (31 May 2010)

mariomike said:
			
		

> "What is the purpose of the Employment Equity Act?":
> http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/publications/ee_faq_ee-en.asp#1





> The purpose of the EEA is to ensure that no person is denied employment opportunities and benefits for reasons unrelated to ability.





> In addition, employers must implement the principle that employment equity means more than treating people in the same way; it also requires special measures and the accommodation of differences.



Isn't that a contradiction?


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## Omykron23 (15 Jun 2010)

I just got THE call!!
Everything has turned out well finally. My assermentation is on July 30th and I'm joining CMR in St-Jean on the 31st!
I accepted the 13 years contract as an Artillery Officer.


Thank you all for the support!


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## macknightcr (15 Jun 2010)

Congratulations!! I will see you there.


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## macknightcr (15 Jun 2010)

Also this is a facebook group for everyone who will be in ROTP this coming year.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/group.php?gid=116614281686364&ref=ts


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## calamityjoe (17 Jun 2010)

Omykron23 said:
			
		

> I just got THE call!!



GRATZZ! ^_^


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