# PAY RAISE HELD BACK UNTIL MID APR PAY -- CANFORGEN ATTACHED



## who980 (25 Feb 2005)

It seems our pay raise won't be payed out until mid april now due to unforseen circumstances:

Subject:  SUBJ: IMPLEMENTATION OF FY 04/05 AND FY 05/06 PAY INCREASE,
R 251450Z FEB 05 (0107186-2005056000515.txt)
Auto forwarded by a Rule

FROM: NDHQ OTTAWA//ADM HR-MIL//
DTG: R 251450Z FEB 05
SUBJ: IMPLEMENTATION OF FY 04/05 AND FY 05/06 PAY INCREASE
(0107186-2005056000515.txt)
RAAUZYUW RCCPJAW4042 0561605-UUUU--RCWEWLA RCWEZNA RCWMBNS RCWMCTS
RCWMFYS RCWMHBS RCWMNHS RCWMNLS RCWMNMS RCWMPCA RCWMPJA RCWMRGS
RCWMSKS RCWMTRS RCWMWGS RCWMWIS RCWMWVA RCWMYKS.
ZNR UUUUU ZOC ZIA
R 251450Z FEB 05
FM NDHQ OTTAWA//ADM HR-MIL//
TO CANFORGEN
BT
UNCLAS CANFORGEN 043/05 ADM(HR-MIL)018
SIC WAI
BILINGUAL MESSAGE / MESSAGE BILINGUE
SUBJ: IMPLEMENTATION OF FY 04/05 AND FY 05/06 PAY INCREASE
REF: CANFORGEN 033/05 CDS 010 151335Z FEB 05
1.  REF CANFORGEN ANNOUNCED THAT THE PAY IMPROVEMENTS FOR FY 04/05
WOULD BE RETROACTIVE TO 1 APR 04 AND THAT MEMBERS SHOULD SEE THE
INCREASES REFLECTED IN THEIR END MAR 05 PAY
2.  DUE TO AN UNFORESEEN PROBLEM OUTSIDE THE DEPTS CONTROL, THE
REVISED RATES OF PAY CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED PRIOR TO THE END OF THE
FISCAL YEAR
3.  BE ASSURED THAT EVERY MEASURE WAS TAKEN TO PROVIDE THE PAY
INCREASE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THAT THE PAY
INCREASE WILL BE DELIVERED IN YOUR MID-APR PAY
4.  YOUR CONTINUED PATIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING IS APPRECIATED
END OF ENGLISH TEXT / LE TEXTE FRANCAIS SUIT
PAGE 2 RCCPJAW4042 UNCLAS CANFORGEN 043/05
OBJT: MISE EN APPLICATION DE L AUGMENTATION DE SOLDE POUR
L AF 04/05 ET AF 05/06
REF: CANFORGEN 033/05 CEMD 010 151335Z FEV 05
1.  LE CANFORGEN A LA REF A ANNONCE QUE LES CHANGEMENTS AU TAUX DE
SOLDE POUR L AF 04/05 SERONT RETROACTIFS A PARTIR DU 1 AVR 04 ET QUE
LES MEMBRES DES FC DEVRAIENT VOIR LEURS AUGMENTATIONS DANS LEURS
COMPTES DE SOLDE A LA FIN MAR 05
2.  EN RAISON D UN PROBLEME IMPREVU ET HORS DU CONTROLE DU
MINISTERE, LES NOUVEAUX TAUX DE SOLDE NE PEUVENT PAS ETRES MIS EN
APPLICATION AVANT LA FIN DE L AF 04/05
3.  SOYEZ ASSURES QUE TOUTES LES MESURES ONT ETE ENTREPRISES AFIN
QUE
L AUGMENTATION DE SOLDE SOIT DEPOSEE AUSSITOT QUE POSSIBLE. IL A ETE
CONFIRME QUE L AUGMENTATION SERA DEPOSEE DANS VOS COMPTES DE SOLDE A
LA MI AVR 05
4.  VOTRE PATIENCE ET COMPREHENSION SONT APPRECIEES
BT
#4042
WBO390  DELIVERED   0561557   678826


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## Kurhaus (25 Feb 2005)

Good catch!  I stopped checking the CANFORGEN's when the pay raise was announced, but it is there on the DWAN, CANFORGEN 043/05. Well, we have waited this long, whats another two weeks.  :


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## Love793 (25 Feb 2005)

Go figure.  I thought we where missing the hiccup stage.


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## Tpr.Orange (25 Feb 2005)

lol missing... never we cant miss the hiccup stage...

remember Hurry up and wait.


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## Michael OLeary (25 Feb 2005)

Someone probably figured out that they were going to have to recalculate the April 05 raise a month after a March backpay calculation. Better to have it done once rather than to double the odds of errors with individual acounts.


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## 54/102 CEF (26 Feb 2005)

Has anyone ever thought that since this is all tied to a UNion based pay scale on the civil service side that DND is a defacto Union enviroment?

Its technically not of course - but doesn't this really show where DND sits in the shceme of bargaining power?

2nd question ---- I belive the swivvel servants already have their cash - am I right or am I wrong?


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## Michael OLeary (26 Feb 2005)

54/102 CEF said:
			
		

> 2nd question ---- I belive the swivvel servants already have their cash - am I right or am I wrong?



Those who work for me haven't seen it yet.


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## Missile Man (26 Feb 2005)

Nice post on the delayed pay increase.  More testament to the rule "don't spend it before you see it".  I will certainly be fielding calls from creditors of my men end March, likely from premature purchases of plasma tv's and the like.  Here we go again...


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## 404SqnAVSTeach (27 Feb 2005)

We should get interest on top of that... They have been holding our money for a year.. >

I wish they would pay us overtime... a lot of thing would change around here.  Cancel overtime in war time.


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## mo-litia (27 Feb 2005)

404SqnAVSTeach said:
			
		

> I wish they would pay us overtime... a lot of thing would change around here.   Cancel overtime in war time.



Hey, now! That idea seems too fair ever to be implemented...besides, how fast do you want to spend our budget increase anyway? ;D


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## Marauder (27 Feb 2005)

No worries lads, the check is in the mail...


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## Acorn (27 Feb 2005)

404SqnAVSTeach said:
			
		

> I wish they would pay us overtime... a lot of thing would change around here.   Cancel overtime in war time.



How much less pay and leave would you like to have in order to get overtime? We get "the military factor" and an "overtime factor" in our pay and benefits already (for example, a public servant needs about 10 years service to get 20 leave days per year).

Don't forget that the TB determines your pay and benefits. If you want something, inevitably you'll give something up.

Acorn


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## 043 (1 Mar 2005)

Missile Man said:
			
		

> Nice post on the delayed pay increase.   More testament to the rule "don't spend it before you see it".   I will certainly be fielding calls from creditors of my men end March, likely from premature purchases of plasma tv's and the like.   Here we go again...



It is against the Law for creditors to call someone other than the person who is defaulting the payments. Call the creditors on it and they will hang up on you.


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## c_canuk (1 Mar 2005)

I think it would be much nicer if in the future they don't tell us about any raises or anything until it's already on our pay, dismiss rumors of impending raises from leaks as just baseless rumor and make it a nice suprise when it happens, rather than drag us through this rollercoaster of expectation for months, irritating people.


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## Kurhaus (1 Mar 2005)

They need to up front with pending raise in pay in order to keep people in the forces.  It is the old "carrot on the stick" routine.  Without the promise of better pay, fewer people would re-sign their contracts.  Even with this pay raise, there are several good people within my unit that have found employment elsewhere and are taking their release.


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## Canadian Sig (1 Mar 2005)

What truly amazes me is how "amazed" some folks are at this delay. You would think that by now anybody in the military would be used to having to wait to get what they are promised.


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## NMPeters (2 Mar 2005)

The pay raises are not being held back. We all get our pay raise on 1 April. What is being delayed is the retroactive amounts due.


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## AirForceWife (5 Mar 2005)

CHIMO!!!!! said:
			
		

> It is against the Law for creditors to call someone other than the person who is defaulting the payments. Call the creditors on it and they will hang up on you.



They actually can call the place of employment. I was a creditor for 2 years back in Mississauga. We use to call places of employment all the time, if we couldnt get a hold of the creditor in person over the phone that day.  And legally, we were allowed to call upto 3 times a day.  Creditors arent allowed to divuldge specific information such as how much is due, but they are allowed to state pretty much everything else


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## George Wallace (6 Mar 2005)

AirForceWife said:
			
		

> They actually can call the place of employment. I was a creditor for 2 years back in Mississauga. We use to call places of employment all the time, if we couldnt get a hold of the creditor in person over the phone that day. And legally, we were allowed to call upto 3 times a day. Creditors arent allowed to divuldge specific information such as how much is due, but they are allowed to state pretty much everything else



It is up to the employer to not divulge personal information.  The Creditor can call all they want, like an annoying telemarketer, but the onus lies with the employer to protect the privacy of their employees.  Action has been taken by DND in the past against the actions of some "Creditors", I remember on instance in the past where the B of M was kicked out of the Canex property due to some unethical inside information they were gathering on Servicemen in Petawawa in the early '80s.


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## ruckup (6 Mar 2005)

Actually, the ONLY time a creditor can contact your place of employment is if the case has been litigated through courts and there is a garnish on your salary. The creditor has a right to inquire about that matter. Above all it is illegal for a creditor to call your place of work after all other reasonable means of contact have been made ie, phonecalls, mail, or registered mail. A creditor can not call your work, identify themself as one and leave a number of contact as it can escalate friction between employer/employee relationship. It is also illegal for a creditor to call your home on Sundays.
One thing people are unaware of, if your financial hardship has escalated to the level of credit collector you have the right to request a Financial Capacity Assessment where they provide you with a form to fill out and you can arrange payments through them. This is something they will not let you know about. Do not be intimidated by having them insist you go through the legal loan sharks of transcanada credit etc as your credit rating will be reflected and you will have at least a 30% interest rate if you qualify. More is available through the consumers web on your rights.


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## who980 (7 Mar 2005)

A lot of it may have to do with the province you're in as well.  In British Columbia, according to the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act:

 116 (1) A collector must not communicate or attempt to communicate with a debtor at the debtor's place of employment unless

(a) the collector does not have the home address or telephone number for the debtor and the collector contacts the debtor solely for the purpose of requesting the debtor's home address or telephone number or both,

(b) the collector has attempted to contact the debtor at the debtor's home address or telephone number, but the collector has not contacted the debtor in any of those attempts, or

(c) the collector has been authorized by the debtor to communicate with the debtor at the debtor's place of employment.

(2) The collector must not make more than one verbal attempt, under subsection (1) (b), to contact the debtor at the debtor's place of employment.

Here is the full reference:

http://www.leg.bc.ca/37th5th/1st_read/gov02-1-pt07.htm#part07-div01

-Ryan


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## Love793 (8 Mar 2005)

Keep in mind, that the creditor/collections people know this, but most others don't.  They also know that by calling the place of employment and talking to the "Top Guy", that chances are someone is going to pay the bill.  Especially in the military, as it becomes a huge administrative headache for the member.


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## DAA (9 Mar 2005)

Nice topic!  Most of the information on Credit Collections are correct, but they do vary from province to province.  I used to receive calls from these companies on a somewhat regular basis (not for myself of course) looking for information on military pers.  They are very "slick" in there dealings and know exactly what to say and how to say it.  As far as I was concerned, this was an issue between the military member and the company concerned.  I used to confirm employment only, which in Ontario you can do and that was it.  I would then advise the mil person that these people were looking for them and to look after the matter before it escalated any further.

Most of the companies are okay to deal with, but some were a nuisance.  So much so, that I started to record the conversations that I use to have with the agents and then contact the company and speak with the area manager.  I had one case where one of my own soldiers were in debt and the agent called me at work.  "She" had a mouth on her like I have never heard before, not even from a seasoned soldier.  Needless to say, when I called her area manager back he denied that she had acted inappropriately, but then he knew they were busted when I played the tape back.  I even reported the company to the Government Consumer offices.  After that little episode, I only ever received calls from the manager directly and never one of the agents.

In the end, I counselled my soldier on how to handle the matter and it was looked after.

Settle your debt, before it becomes a court ordered payment!  You'll be much further ahead.


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