# Pope resigns



## vonGarvin (11 Feb 2013)

First time a pontiff has resigned in 600 years.
Story here

Also, Canada's Marc Ouellet is touted as a top contender to replace him:

Story here.


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## Gorgo (11 Feb 2013)

His Holiness did the right thing . . . unlike his predecessor, who allowed his illnesses to totally incapacitate him near the end of his tenure at the Vatican.  Let's hope the next person selected - and it might be nice to have a Canadian fill that role!   - will have a level head.


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## vonGarvin (11 Feb 2013)

From what I heard about JP II, was that although his body failed him, his mind was strong to the very end.


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## Kirkhill (11 Feb 2013)

It is an interesting situation.  Especially in light of the decision of the Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands to abdicate in favour of her son and the contrasting decision of Queen Elizabeth to live out her tenure.

While I can understand His Holiness's concern about not being able to manage the Church as his faculties are challenged there is another aspect to his role and that is the one that he shares with Queens Beatrix and Elizabeth:  their roles as figureheads.  I continue to argue that the figurehead role is actually more important than any executive role that they may have or may be denied.

Her Majesty has a very limited executive role but still wields power as an exemplar.  I believe the same to be true of His Holiness.  

Could not His Holiness have taken the same tack as many others and stayed in office while handing the executive role over to a Chief of Staff?

As a Presbyterian by upbringing if not currently a charter member I am just curious.


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## vonGarvin (11 Feb 2013)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Could not His Holiness have taken the same tack as many others and stayed in office while handing the executive role over to a Chief of Staff?


Those are good questions, Kirkhill; however, the Pope's office is much more executive in nature than either of HM The Queen's or HM The Queen's.  Love him or hate him, he wields very potent power.


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## dapaterson (11 Feb 2013)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> It is an interesting situation.  Especially in light of the decision of the Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands to abdicate in favour of her son and the contrasting decision of Queen Elizabeth to live out her tenure.
> 
> While I can understand His Holiness's concern about not being able to manage the Church as his faculties are challenged there is another aspect to his role and that is the one that he shares with Queens Beatrix and Elizabeth:  their roles as figureheads.  I continue to argue that the figurehead role is actually more important than any executive role that they may have or may be denied.
> 
> ...



Google "Vatileaks" and you may discover why handing off to the Chief of Staff might not be such a good idea.  If there are problems in the bureaucracy as alleged in some reports, handing off to them to manage would not be the best choice.


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## Kirkhill (11 Feb 2013)

Thanks for the lead DAP.

I'm not much of a Vatican Watcher.


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## cupper (11 Feb 2013)

Was listening to a discussion about this on the radio earlier today. On of the persons involved was Rev. Mark Morozowich Associate Professor of Liturgical Studies and Sacramental Theology, Dean of the School of Theology and Religious Studies, Catholic University in Washington DC.

One thing he pointed out is that within the Catholic Church, Bishops typically step down from their positions at the age of 75 due to the day to day demands being very hard for someone of advanced years. However, The Pope, also being the Bishop of Rome, typically runs as a lifetime appointment. He has both the day to day responsibilities of both the Catholic Church as a whole, but also the Diocese of Rome as well.

It's also interesting to note that there is a maximum voting age for Cardinals in the enclave. All voting members must be 80 years of age or younger (if I understood him correctly)


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## vonGarvin (11 Feb 2013)

cupper said:
			
		

> It's also interesting to note that there is a maximum voting age for Cardinals in the enclave. All voting members must be 80 years of age or younger (if I understood him correctly)


Yes, as of the start of the conclave, the cardinals must be under 80 years of age to vote.


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## ArmyRick (11 Feb 2013)

Kind of threw me off. I would ask my priest some more questions but since my attendance at mass lately has been lacking, I may not get a warm reception.


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## cupper (11 Feb 2013)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> Kind of threw me off. I would ask my priest some more questions but since my attendance at mass lately has been lacking, I may not get a warm reception.



 :tsktsk:


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## captloadie (11 Feb 2013)

I believe the real argument on why some believe he should have served until his death is the fear he will have a real impact on both the election of the new Pope, and the possibility his mere presence would hamper a more moderate Pope from advancing change. Could he stand silently by while some of the reforms he stymied  were progressed by the new guy?


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## jwtg (11 Feb 2013)

captloadie said:
			
		

> I believe the real argument on why some believe he should have served until his death is the fear he will have a real impact on both the election of the new Pope, and the possibility his mere presence would hamper a more moderate Pope from advancing change. Could he stand silently by while some of the reforms he stymied  were progressed by the new guy?


The counter-argument to that is that it might be a good thing that he's around to assist the transition of a new pope.  I imagine he won't be involved in the selection of the pope because he is too old to vote in the conclave.

Most of the reforms he stymied are not truly reforms, but would be cause a radical reshaping of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings on faith and morals.  The Catholic Church doesn't change it's teaching on faith and morals; altering practices, which it does from time to time, is another matter, but most of the reforms that moderates or liberals are hoping for, while conservatives and traditional Catholics oppose them, are issues of faith and morals, and not of practice.

I would think that a moderate hoping to reform the Church's teachings doesn't have a very good chance of being selected.


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## cupper (11 Feb 2013)

I believe that Benedict's stated plans are to move to the Summer residence in San Marino after he steps down on the 28th, and once a new Pope has been selected he will retire to a monastical residence within the Vatican. He won't have any involvement with the Conclave.

There has been some discussion about who he would prefer to see succeed him, but as we all know, the Vatican (and the Catholic Church) has been a political body for it's entire history. As such, there is no telling how the final outcome will resolve itself. Much like national politics, there are many factions amongst the Cardinals and Bishops. And even within the factions there is infighting and deal making.


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## captloadie (12 Feb 2013)

jwtg said:
			
		

> The counter-argument to that is that it might be a good thing that he's around to assist the transition of a new pope.  I imagine he won't be involved in the selection of the pope because he is too old to vote in the conclave.
> 
> Most of the reforms he stymied are not truly reforms, but would be cause a radical reshaping of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings on faith and morals.  The Catholic Church doesn't change it's teaching on faith and morals; altering practices, which it does from time to time, is another matter, but most of the reforms that moderates or liberals are hoping for, while conservatives and traditional Catholics oppose them, are issues of faith and morals, and not of practice.
> 
> I would think that a moderate hoping to reform the Church's teachings doesn't have a very good chance of being selected.


I agree on your point about the Church  not changing its teachings on faith and morals. In fact, even as a non Catholic, I fully support this train of thought. I have always pondered why someone who claims they are a devout follower of a certain sect of teachings (Catholic, Anglican, Muslim, Budhist) thinks that the Church must reform itself to meet the changing world. I think instead they should look at themselves and decide on whether maybe they should examine their true beliefs, and then convert to a religion that better marries up with ones values. Because at the end of the day, I don't have  a problem having my minister being a divorced lesbian with three children, specifically because I'm not Catholic (or Baptist for that matter).


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## NavyHopeful (12 Feb 2013)

*quick off topic*

I find, when dealing with certain people of religious beliefs, that the ones who are able to incorporate their beliefs into the flow of their daily life and the normal happenstance of life around them, are the true followers of their beliefs.

I myself am not baptized into any specific religion.  My wife is Catholic.  My mother is Jehovah's Witness.  My grandfather has a PhD in Theology, and says that all religions tend to be flawed, because they are run by man.  But it is my opinion that I tend to look for, and that I live by.  I am of the opinion that you can tell a lot about a person, not by his/her beliefs, but by their actions.

Take the atheist who volunteers at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter, or even just buys a bunch of happy meals at McDonald's to give out to the people on the street.  Or, in contrast, the person who tells people that they are wrong and they are going "down south to that evil place" if they don't agree with their specific religious beliefs.

*back on topic*

In my opinion, if his Holiness decides that his faith and the church he serves would be better served by his stepping down, and having someone who, in his opinion, would be better suited to carry the weight and responsibility of the position, that I have to stand and applaud the man for trying, in his own way, to act in the greater good for his belief system.  Catholic or not, I see this action as the sign of someone who is, in fact, a natural leader.  I wish him well.


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## vonGarvin (12 Feb 2013)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> Kind of threw me off. I would ask my priest some more questions but since my attendance at mass lately has been lacking, I may not get a warm reception.


He'd be happy to see you back (re: "prodigal son")


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## Journeyman (12 Feb 2013)

NavyHopeful said:
			
		

> But it is my opinion that I tend to look for, and that I live by.


  Me too.    :nod:


Hey, maybe I_ am_ religious.         Nahhhh


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## vonGarvin (12 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Me too.    :nod:
> 
> 
> Hey, maybe I_ am_ religious.         Nahhhh



You don't have to be religious, nor even believe in God to be a good person.  Just as being religious does not guarantee that you're good


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## GAP (12 Feb 2013)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> You don't have to be religious, nor even believe in God to be a good person.  Just as being religious does not guarantee that you're good



But....but....he promised!!


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## vonGarvin (12 Feb 2013)

GAP said:
			
		

> But....but....he promised!!




Then again, maybe the pope just gave up the papacy for Lent?  I mean, it was rather unexpected...


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Feb 2013)

;D


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## vonGarvin (16 Feb 2013)




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## PMedMoe (20 Feb 2013)

;D


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## cupper (20 Feb 2013)

If I were a religious person, I'd worry about going to hell for finding these posts hilarious.

But thankfully I'm not, so I won't. ;D


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## vonGarvin (20 Feb 2013)

cupper said:
			
		

> If I were a religious person, I'd worry about going to hell for finding these posts hilarious.
> 
> But thankfully I'm not, so I won't. ;D


I'm a practicing Roman Catholic, and I find them hilarious.    ;D


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## Scott (20 Feb 2013)

I posted one on my Facebook to troll the humourless Catholics. I know TV is not one of those


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## cupper (20 Feb 2013)

If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at. :nod:


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## Scott (20 Feb 2013)

cupper said:
			
		

> If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at. :nod:



The folks you troll with semi blasphemous memes


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## GAP (26 Feb 2013)

Who Knew? The Pope Has A Pilot's License
But The Holy See Never Learned To Drive A Car
Mon, Feb 25, 2013
http://www.aero-news.net/subscribe.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=7929b91b-1927-441c-b8fd-cca7cb6f595a

The retirement of Pope Benedict XVI came as a surprise to Catholics around the world, and his retirement ceremony will likely be full of pomp and circumstance, broadcast live around the world.

But it's less well known that when the Pope flies off into retirement aboard the papal helicopter ... he wouldn't necessarily have to be sitting in the back waving. He could be up front in the cockpit flying the aircraft himself.

Information from the "Fun Facts" section of the Catholic News Agency website indicates that "Pope Benedict XVI has a pilot's license for the papal helicopter and likes to fly from the Vatican to the papal summer residence, Castel Gandolfo, but the pope does not have a driver's license as he never learned to drive a car." The website Snoring Scholar also indicates that the pope is licensed to fly single-engine airplanes.

The New York Times reports that Pope Benedict XVI has enjoyed flying the papal helo from the Vatican to Castel Gandolfo, but for this retirement flight, he'll be a passenger.
end


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## Gorgo (26 Feb 2013)

Not surprising that His Holiness is able to fly a helicopter.  His predecessor was an avid sportsman for the longest time.  I would think being able to do something mentally or physically strenuous would be a good thing for a major religious leader - regardless of stripe - to be able to do.


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## dapaterson (12 Mar 2013)

From the "I'm nowhere near creative enough to make this stuff up" department, the BBC is reporting that the _Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples_ recently paid 20 million euros to buy new offices... in the same building as one of Italy's best known gay bath houses.



> Bruno, "a hairy, overweight pastor of souls, is free to the music of his clergyman, remaining in a thong, because he wants to expose body and soul", the website says.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21753860


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## PMedMoe (12 Mar 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> From the "I'm nowhere near creative enough to make this stuff up" department, the BBC is reporting that the _Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples_ recently paid 20 million euros to buy new offices... in the same building as one of Italy's best known gay bath houses.



Pfffft.  Much ado about nothing.  

In Pickering there used to be an "Amish Furniture Designed" store in the same building as an "Aren't We Naughty" sex store.   ;D  
I say used to be because the sex store has now taken over that space and the furniture store has (possibly) moved to a nearby building.


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## OldSolduer (12 Mar 2013)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Then again, maybe the pope just gave up the papacy for Lent?  I mean, it was rather unexpected...



As a filthy heathen Protestant I find the inner workings of the Roman Catholic Church fascinating. I think it's very political. 
I really won't say much more as whoever is chosen as the next Pope is up to the Roman Catholic Church.

Ok, for a left wing media lot, the CBC sure likes covering the conclave. Just an observation.


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## The Bread Guy (12 Mar 2013)

On the goofier side, some alternatives to the stuffy "conclave" nomenclature for choosing a Pope ....


> .... *Pope Idol* - This is the ultimate elimination round. Forget a record deal and joining the likes of legends like Phillip Phillips, here you rule the Catholic religious world, and get a new stage name!
> 
> *Let’s Go Cardinals!* - These Cardinals will not pick the next Pope.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (12 Mar 2013)

> No agreement was reached Tuesday afternoon, as cardinal electors finished their first voting round. Thousands of people gathered in St. Peter's Square, waiting to see if the famous smoke, emerging from the roof of the Sistine Chapel, was white or black.
> 
> As expected, at roughly .....black smoke came out of the chimney, as the world watched on.
> 
> ...


romereports.com, 12 Mar 13

If you want, you can also follow the Conclave Chimney's Twitter feed here  - no, I'm not making this up.


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## jollyjacktar (12 Mar 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> romereports.com, 12 Mar 13
> 
> If you want, you can also follow the Conclave Chimney's Twitter feed here  - no, I'm not making this up.


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## Jungle (12 Mar 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> If you want, you can also follow the Conclave Chimney's Twitter feed here  - no, I'm not making this up.



They made a big thing on the news about the stove used to burn the ballots being "a century old"...

News flash: most sugar shacks in Québec have wood stoves at least that old...  :


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## Old Sweat (13 Mar 2013)

White smoke at 1408 EDT. Now we wait for the results.


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## OldSolduer (13 Mar 2013)

Fascinating. History in front of our eyes is being made.


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## Nfld Sapper (13 Mar 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Fascinating. History in front of our eyes is being made.



Again.....lol


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## The Bread Guy (13 Mar 2013)

From the guy behind the chimney twitter feed (who also blogs about Catholic issues)....


> POPE FRANCISO - Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina.


.... with a bit of his background (with the usual Wikipedia caveats) and his Twitter feed (figure that'll be migrating now) with this prediction:


> Si soy el nuevo Papa, los niños me van a amar más que al Papa Noel #Vaticano





> If I'm the new pope, children will love me more than the Santa Claus # Vatican


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## dapaterson (13 Mar 2013)

Francis I, a Jesuit from Argentina.


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## Journeyman (13 Mar 2013)

Finally!

We'll be able to sleep nights without worrying about those spiritually-adrift Catholics running amok...buying birth control, attending gay marriages, playing games other than bingo.....

_~whew~_


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## jpjohnsn (13 Mar 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Francis I, a Jesuit from Argentina.


I know that a lot of media outlets are calling him Pope Francis I but he won't be Francis I until there's a Francis II.  It's just that people are used to putting a number after the pope's name.

It's like having no kids yet tacking "senior" on at the end of your name.


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## PuckChaser (13 Mar 2013)

I was routing for this guy to win:


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Mar 2013)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I was routing for this guy to win:



He would have started out as a Cardinal Sin though, wouldn't he?


I'm not Catholic, but I think sloth is one of those isn't it? ;D


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## PuckChaser (14 Mar 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> He would have started out as a Cardinal Sin though, wouldn't he?



 :crickets:



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> I'm not Catholic, but I think sloth is one of those isn't it? ;D



I googled it, you're correct.   8)


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Mar 2013)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> :crickets:



Really? Is it not obvious? 

Should I spell it out?


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## The Bread Guy (14 Mar 2013)

<Papal trivia>
So, which "Francis" is he channeling?

The Vatican's Info-machine "presumes it's after Saint Francis who was born in Assisi", bit the Calendar of Saints also has a south American St. Francis.
</Papal trivia>


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## GAP (14 Mar 2013)

<More Papal trivia>

VATICAN CITY –  LONGEST CONCLAVE
Article Link

In 1268, a conclave began that lasted nearly three years — 33 months to be exact. Pope Gregory X was elected pope, but not before residents of Viterbo, north of Rome, tore the roof off the building where the cardinals were staying and restricted their meals to bread and water to make them hurry up. Hoping to avoid a repeat, Gregory decreed in 1274 that cardinals would only get one meal a day if the conclave stretched beyond three days, and served bread, water and wine if it went beyond eight. While the meals served these days at the Vatican's hotel are by no means gourmet, the cardinals won't go hungry — no matter how long they take picking a pope.

SHORTEST CONCLAVE: Before 1274, there were times when a pope was elected the same day as the death of his predecessor. After that, however, the church decided to wait at least 10 days before the first vote; later that was stretched to 15 days to give all cardinals time to get to Rome. The quickest conclave observing the 10-day wait rule appears to have been the 1503 election of Julius II, who was elected in just a few hours, according to Vatican historian Ambrogio Piazzoni.

YOUNGEST/OLDEST POPE ELECTED: Pope John XII was just 18 when he was elected in 955. The oldest popes were Pope Celestine III (elected in 1191) and Celestine V (elected in 1294) who were both nearly 85. Benedict XVI was 78 when he was elected in 2005.

FUN FACTS: The last time a pope was elected who wasn't a cardinal was Urban VI in 1378 — he was a monk and archbishop of Bari. Pope Pius XII, who was pope during World War II, left a document informing the College of Cardinals that they should hold a conclave and elect a new pope if he were taken prisoner. While the Italians have had a stranglehold on the papacy over centuries, there have been many exceptions aside from John Paul II (Polish in 1978) and Benedict XVI (German in 2005). Alexander VI, elected in 1492, was Spanish; Gregory III, elected in 731, was Syrian; Adrian VI, elected in 1522, was from the Netherlands.
end


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## vonGarvin (14 Mar 2013)

The initial thought was also that he could have chosen "Francis" because of Saint Francis Xavier, a Jesuit.  It's since been confirmed (pun not intended) that it's homage to Saint Francis of Assisi.

And it's also been confirmed that it's simple "Pope Francis", not "Pope Francis I".  When John Paul I was announced, "primo" was part of his title.


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## CougarKing (15 Mar 2013)

Something tells me the stars of "Saturday Night Live" are going to make a "Slumdog" spoof of this called "Slum Pope" with Will Ferrell singing "Jai-ho!!!" now that this has come out:    ;D

CTV news link



> *Pope Francis revered as 'slum pope' by poor Argentines*
> 
> The Associated Press
> Published Friday, Mar. 15, 2013 6:41AM EDT
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (15 Mar 2013)

I guess Justin Trudeau had already chosen to lead the Liberal Faithful and was not available?


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## TheHead (15 Mar 2013)

Nah,  I'm pretty sure Justin just doesn't want to be burdened with the having to cover up sexual abuse of children like the last Pope was involved in


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## OldSolduer (16 Mar 2013)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Nah,  I'm pretty sure Justin just doesn't want to be burdened with the having to cover up sexual abuse of children like the last Pope was involved in



I thought your were talking about Justin Beeber....oops.  >


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