# Tim Hortons in Theatre Merged Thread (in AFG, no plans to preposition)



## JP (31 Jan 2006)

Check out the following article, then go to the 2nd link to add your comments to the list!

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=691d9952-0f8b-4d36-b98b-68f6a2bc55cc&k=20976

http://www.abmp.ca/timmys_petition.html


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## camochick (31 Jan 2006)

If you really want to show your support you can email Tim Hortons at   customer_service@timhortons.com . 
I think it would be nice to have a Tim Hortons over there. A taste of home might go a long way when it comes to boosting morale.


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## George Wallace (31 Jan 2006)

Actually I can't see any problem.  Perhaps the wrong people at Tim Horton's are being approached.  As most know, the Tim Horton chain was bought up by the Wendy's organization.  Their Corporate Headquarters is in Columbus Ohio.  If the following quote is true, then there should be no qualms with opening up a Tim's overseas for Operations:  





> The idea of a Tim Hortons in Kandahar arose when the first Canadians arrived at the air field and were greeted by a row of American fast-food franchises along a "boardwalk" near the centre of the base, Mr. Cleyson said. "The American military has standing offers with these corporations so you'll see their franchises wherever American soldiers are deployed," he said.


After all, it is an American owned Chain now, in competition with these other American Chains.  Perhaps the Corporate Heads in Columbus should be the target of your campaign.  Use the "Get American soldiers hooked on Tim's and then that will help promote your American franchises." approach.

It is our way to World Domination.........................Peaceful overthrow of all World Governments...................Operation Double Double...... ;D


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## Thompson_JM (31 Jan 2006)

My Response on the Petition site:



Agreed, tim's should open up shop. 

I think that they need to forget about Corporate Image here, and realize the service they would be doing to many a homesick canadian. 

perhaps the spokesperson doesnt realize that all these soldiers deployed to Kandahar, all have freinds, family, etc... left behind in canada. they are missing their childs first steps, birthdays, graduations. these soldiers are making extreme sacrifices, in the hope that they can bring peace to a destabilized region that has known only war for decades... I hardly think that it would be a difficult decision to bring a small piece of home to them. being a member of the CF I can say that even training in canada, on field operations, when you have a little piece of home with you (ie: care package, Tim's Coffee brought into the training area, anything) its a huge boost for morale, and really helps you feel appreciated. 

quit stalling Tim's.... Open the shop. 

Josh, Dundas, Ontaio
_______________________________

Ive never been deployed... the hardest time i ever had was going to ottawa for three months. and i still got to go home roughly twice a month. that was still a little difficult at times, there was some isolation, and you get a little bummed out being 500kms from home... I can only imagine the difficulty a soldier must face when he's 1000's of Km from home, an dgone for the better part of a year.. 

if tims hortons corporate had any kind of soul they could appreciate just how much something small like putting a TH in camp would mean to the candians over there... i can only imagine the homesickness they must feel at times.. they are afterall human. the least we can do Is make it a little more like home for them.

Regards
     Josh


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## plattypuss (31 Jan 2006)

All the bad press, but if you read into some of the articles Tim Horton's already donates care packages to the CF in camps all over the world.  I would argue that having a Tim's in camp may lead to the wrong mind-set in the military soldiers that are there.


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## Armymedic (31 Jan 2006)

Sorry troops, my feel of it is that there is no good reason to have a Tim's in Theater with us. Just because we can...nope. Will it make our QOL any better over there...nope. Will it cause more problems then its worth...yep.

We already have the coffee. They can ship over cups, and we have in the past. You will not be able to ship the Tims cream all the way across the pond. And trust me, our soldiers are not dying over there from lack of food, so no need for donuts.

The logistics of this is gigantic. Sure it would be great to have a trailer in KAF, but what good if its only open 1 day every 2 weeks because all the supplies have run out. Who is going to use if...Oh yes, all the NSE and NCE who are back in the big camp....having an outlet so that the majority of troops can get a coffee once or twice a month?

Leave it at home, where it can remain as one of the first three things you look forward to do once you get home:

Get reaquainted with wife, 
sleep in own bed,
go out for Timmies.


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## Bobbyoreo (31 Jan 2006)

"Get reaquainted with wife, 
sleep in own bed,
go out for Timmies. "


But if they did...more time for number 1 and 2!!!!!!!


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## Armymedic (31 Jan 2006)

considering the first point on the list usually takes only about 30 secs....

Besides most get thier Tims on the way home, so really is the first thing most of us do.


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## COBRA-6 (31 Jan 2006)

Besides, they already have Mr. Greenbeans, which is kinda like Second Cup... so it's not a critical issue.


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## from darkness lite (31 Jan 2006)

Although I love a good cup of Timmies as much as the next guy, I won't hammer them for not opening a shop over here.  They already donate 1000's (10,000's) of dollars worth of coffee each year to the troops.  Beside's it just gives me one more thing (on the many I already have) to be thankful for with regard to Canada. ;D

FDL


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## Cannoneer No. 4 (31 Jan 2006)

There are TWO Green Beans Coffee shops on KAF, one near the PX and the other at MWR, across the street from the South DFAC.  Green Beans Coffee shops are concessionaires of the US Army & Air Force Exchange Service.  There are Green Beans at just about every American base in the Middle East and Central Asia.

Rather than bring heat on Tim Horton's, why not just get them talking to Green Beans?


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## enfield (31 Jan 2006)

I'll agree with Armymedic here - the last thing the CF needs is more logistical 'tail'. The troops have coffee. They have Tim's coffee. Why the need for a coffee shop? The headaches from such a thing far outweigh any potential 'quality of life' gain. The concept now is reducing the support elements, focusing on combat operations, and moving away from the 'super-camp' mentality - adding coffee shops furthers none of these aims.


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## Armymedic (31 Jan 2006)

More..
Who is going to operate this outlet? Where would the money go? Highly unikely Tim Hortens would send employees over for tours, so there it rests on PSP to operate it.
These other outlet usually have LEPs or employees from Pakistan, Nepal, etc working at them. No Canadian will come to KAF to operate a fast food outlet.
And where does it stop. One in KAF...then one in the next camp, and the next? Well, they did it last time...
No doubt CFPSA is all over it, the revenue would be superb.

It will be a bigger pain then its worth.


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## COBRA-6 (1 Feb 2006)

Enfield said:
			
		

> I'll agree with Armymedic here - the last thing the CF needs is more logistical 'tail'.



Right, the mail already takes long enough to get here without having to compete with fat pills for cargo space!


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## Goober (2 Feb 2006)

A follow up article was published today about the backlash Timmies is getting.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=f65cd16d-d1e0-4a7d-999f-e703a67cdf1a&k=71809


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## 043 (2 Feb 2006)

Do you guys need to be reminded that when you deploy on operation, you are on an operation????????????????????? Timmy's.........come on, get a grip people! It's bad enough when chicks cake on the makeup and perfume...........nothing worse than smelling that shit when you are in the meal line and haven't been on HLTA for 3 months!!!!!!!!!


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## Bobbyoreo (3 Feb 2006)

I think most of the people know this.....hence the jokes!!!! ;D :dontpanic:


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## stoker8 (3 Feb 2006)

Might be time to start an Email campaign towards getting Tims to change their mind and support our troops in Afghanistan.

This is their email address.   customer_service@timhortons.com

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=691d9952-0f8b-4d36-b98b-68f6a2bc55cc


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## Armymedic (3 Feb 2006)

stoker8 said:
			
		

> Might be time to start an Email campaign towards getting Tims to change their mind and support our troops in Afghanistan.



Did you not read anything above?



> getting Tims to change their mind and support our troops


 Good god man, there is not a single privately owned corporation who gives the CF as much support as Tim Hortons does. Don't change thier minds, encourage them to keep up the support they have been giving.

Anyone who has been overseas (esp in Camp Julien in Kabul) sees literally piles of free Tim Hortons ground coffee (also able to buy it a Canex for greatly reduced price). Not to mention the extra goodies they throw into the OP Santa parcels every Christmas, I personally got a free can of coffee, and a mug a couple yrs ago.

This is not like they are going to build an outlet like what you see in any Canadian city in Kandahar airport...


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## vonGarvin (3 Feb 2006)

2023 said:
			
		

> It's bad enough when chicks cake on the makeup and perfume...........nothing worse than smelling that crap when you are in the meal line and haven't been on HLTA for 3 months!!!!!!!!!


HLTA?  What's that? ;-)  Only say that cause though I've been to A'stan and Haiti, all within 12 months, no HLTA for vonGarvin!  
Tim's in theatre?  The coffee?  YES!  The franchise?  NO!  DEFINATE NO!  And have PSP go get stuffed and stay home for frig's sake.  They do nothing but cause trouble IMHO.
"Hi, I'm your PSP rep.  Is there anything you want in the Canex?"
"Yeah, chew"
"Porn"
"Well, I don't know about chewing tobacco: it's not good for you.  Porn?  I don't think so!"
"Well, excuse me!  You sell it in the CANEX in Gagetown, why not here?  Am I good enough to be suicide bombed, but too good to make my rocket trips a bit more exciting?  Get the Frig outta here!"
(paraphrasing a conversation I had in Julien in 03)


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## JP (4 Feb 2006)

This is a great discussion!
Who says coffee isnt addictive!


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## reccecrewman (24 Feb 2006)

Global announced on the 5:00 news that the CDS, Gen. Hillier has invited the CEO of Tim Hotons Canada to Kandahar to review the viability of having a Timmies in theatre.  So, here it goes.  We've discussed it in these forums before - weighed the pros and cons, and now it very may well become reality.


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## Haggis (24 Feb 2006)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> Global announced on the 5:00 news that the CDS, Gen. Hillier has invited the CEO of Tim Hotons Canada to Kandahar to review the viability of having a Timmies in theatre.  So, here it goes.  We've discussed it in these forums before - weighed the pros and cons, and now it very may well become reality.



Throw in some Red Bull and a shyteload of ammo, then turn the troops loose.  The Taliban and AQ are done for!


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## Armymedic (24 Feb 2006)

Well if the CDS wants it to happen....


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## reccecrewman (24 Feb 2006)

Well, underneath that Commanders cap badge, there lies a Springbok.  In the style of a true tanker & Dragoon, a MASSIVE morale booster could come to the Troops serving in one of the ****holes of the world.  This outstanding CDS continues to impress.


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## trucker00 (24 Feb 2006)

I don't see why it can't happen. The American's bring a Burgar King with them when they deploy.


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## The Gues-|- (24 Feb 2006)

I watched it go down on cpac.  Gen. Hillier made an excellent speech just shy of 60 minutes.  It was towards then end of his speech that he told the room filled with General's, former Generals, media and everyone alike that when he was visiting the troops in Kandahar he asked them what they wanted the most.  In reply was to have a Tim Horton's in Afghanistan and their second wish was to have a Tim Hortons in Wainwright.  After a few chuckles he then made the request of having Tim's CEO come with him to A'stan to review the viability.  

I will note that there were a lot of military heads at the conference, many of whom which were up on the podium shootin the shit.  Gen. Hillier was by far the most passionate.


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## Dissident (24 Feb 2006)

Yup, just saw it on global. 

But I bet the troops over there will be asking for more Icecaps than double doubles. Although, it does get pretty cold in the desert at night...

If they need money, I'm willing to put up some money to set up the franchise.


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## AmmoTech90 (25 Feb 2006)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> In reply was to have a Tim Horton's in Afghanistan and their second wish was to have a Tim Hortons in Wainwright.  After a few chuckles he then made the request of having Tim's CEO come with him to A'stan to review the viability.



Well based on my experience in Wainwright, there will be a Timmies in Kandahar before the local town government allows a Timmies in Wainwright to compete with local business.  There'll probably be Timmies on the ISS before there's one in Wainwright.


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## elminister (25 Feb 2006)

The Gen. mentioned the Timmies in both places and I'm sure people will start moving. 

ON to the speech, I think he did an excellent job, in saying it out there with no fears, what's needed for us and our family.


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## gun plumber (25 Feb 2006)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> Well based on my experience in Wainwright, there will be a Timmies in Kandahar before the local town government allows a Timmies in Wainwright to compete with local business.  There'll probably be Timmies on the ISS before there's one in Wainwright.


Tim Hortons,Wal-mart and one other "big box" store(CT?),has already announced that they will be moving to Wainwright this year with construction starting this summer on a shopping complex across the hwy from Extra Foods.
This info has been published in the local papers along everybody's fears how these stores will ruin local economy.I suppose that when your business is based on gouging the soldiers and locals alike,then I guess you have something to worry about.


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## MG34 (25 Feb 2006)

BIG FREAKING DEAL!! All we need is another bunch of non trigger pullers to look after over there...bad idea .


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## Armymedic (25 Feb 2006)

MG34 said:
			
		

> All we need is another bunch of non trigger pullers to look after over there...



Not to mention, taking up aircraft spaces to get there and back and all those other logistical concerns as well.

Remember for every box of Tim Hortons crap that gets loaded on the airplane, that may be one box less of ammo, food, or (gasp) mail coming in.


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## karl28 (25 Feb 2006)

Here's the catch twenty two on that one . Who are you gonna get to staff it ? I don't now to many Canadians that will travel to Afghanistan for minimum wage.   I suppose the local  would love the work but if the Timmie's is located on the base that could pose a security risk to the troops in side the base; IE people working there might be terrorist sympathisers  and tell them the layout of the base not likely but it could happen .  Or another idea Tim Horton's can have the CF cooks staff operate the Tim Horton's, but I bet the cf cook staff already has there hands full trying to get all the troops meals cooked so they would probably be stretched to thin to operate the Tim Hortons restaurant . It would be great for the troops to have . A good friend of mine was in alert last year and guys he knew wrote Time Hortons and asked if they could get a shipment of Tim Horton's coffee and Tim Horton's delivered it to them. I know from my buddies e-mail that it was a big hit something from home . So I fully support the idea of having one in theater but just cant see how they can staff one of the restaurant .


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## Gunner (25 Feb 2006)

Canada and the US use Third Country Nationals (TCNs) to man these types of establishments.  Nepalese for example were used extensively by SNC Lavelin in Camp Julien.  I believe the Burger King in Bagram was staffed by Nepalese as well.  Bagram also had some Russians working the shops.  No big whoop.


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## karl28 (25 Feb 2006)

Thanks for the reply *Gunner* I was just wondering  about the possible security risk it could have for the troops on the base if they hired locals to staff the Timmies. Glad to here that in other spots they have had no problems or at least none that we have heard of to date .


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## reccecrewman (25 Feb 2006)

karl28 - You obviously haven't been to Afghanistan yet.  There's literally thousands of locals employed at virtually every Camp in the country.  They get hired as manual labourers, laundry staff, cleaners..... you name the mundane job to be done and there's locals doing it.  There are rules in place to restrict their movement, they don't walk feely about the Camp wherever they choose.  They get a thorough search when they come and go by the good folk at the gates..........  They're a nescessary evil to have around. Yes they ultimately could pose a security threat but it's a chance that has to be taken.  Not to mention the interpreters who also are on the Camp.


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## geo (25 Feb 2006)

Hmmm....
Am confused.
The Navy signed a contract so that all coffee served in their messes is Tim Horton official brew.... and the nevy is paying for this.
Now the Army wants Tim Horton's to set up shop on the strip in Kandahar?
Why would Army guys want to pay for the same thing navy guys get for free?

Get the bean counters to slack off a bit and sign up with Timmies....

The CEO can stay home


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## Haggis (25 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmm....
> Am confused.
> The Navy signed a contract so that all coffee served in their messes is Tim Horton official brew.... and the nevy is paying for this.
> Now the Army wants Tim Horton's to set up shop on the strip in Kandahar?
> ...



Geo, you're doing that "common sense" thing again.

STOP IT!!

You know it only causes ulcers.  ;D


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## geo (25 Feb 2006)

Doh!
Thinking again?..... stop it!


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## karl28 (26 Feb 2006)

*Reccecrewman *  thanks for the info and no I haven't been to Afghanistan I am just a civy I work at a call center . I didn't realize how many locals actually work on an over seas base .


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## The Bread Guy (26 Feb 2006)

I'd love to be educated on this one by anyone in country...

When it comes to staff working in foreign franchises (like Burger King & Pizza Hut), I've heard 12th hand that there are Canadians (civvies) working in these positions in country for up to $18/hour.  Is this reality, or just someone misunderstanding?


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## Armymedic (26 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmm....
> Am confused.
> The Navy signed a contract so that all coffee served in their messes is Tim Horton official brew.... and the nevy is paying for this.
> Now the Army wants Tim Horton's to set up shop on the strip in Kandahar?
> Why would Army guys want to pay for the same thing navy guys get for free?



Well, good question....All those food and drink outlets over there are not free. In fact, they sell their products at a higher price then what you get back home, about 30-50% price increase. In Camp Phoenix in Kabul a standard Ice cream cone was $2 US. A medium regular coffee was also $2 US. At Baghram, a Whopper combo (if I can remember cause I only got it once) as over $8 US.

So what would the price be if TH opens an outlet....would it be free? 
Or would the cost of a cup of Large Double Double be $2.50- $3 US? 
And who would complain first?


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> So what would the price be if TH opens an outlet....would it be free?
> Or would the cost of a cup of Large Double Double be $2.50- $3 US?
> And who would complain first?



Not that I've been there (yet), but if the reasons for high prices were explained to the troops, I believe they would understand and be willing to pay for "a little bit of home". 8)


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## GINge! (26 Feb 2006)

I'm sure they would understand, but I could virtually guarantee the story that would make it back to the Canadian press would be "Tim Horton's Fleeces Canadian Troops with Exhorbitant Coffee Profiteering"


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

As I say - the solution to ignorance? Education. However, as past experience can attest (*cough* Airborne Regiment *cough*) what you say is probably true.


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## Armymedic (26 Feb 2006)

Well, we all saw how well the Airbone made out in that...

What people do forget is that a Tim Horton 18 wheel rig won't be able just to drive up to the outlet in Kandahar and restock it with all the coffee, creamer, sugar, cups, doughnut dough, etc, etc an outlet requires. It all has to be resupplied by the fragile air bridge the Air Force has set up.

And we already have massive donations of TH coffee there in theater, you could buy cans of grinds from Canex in Kabul. I am sure that will be the same in KAF if they set up a Canex there.


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

Would be good for morale if there was a simple sign in the Mess Kitchen that stated that "all coffee served hers is provided, free of charge by the good people of Canada & TimHorton"


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing - "taste of home" vs logistical requirements. How much log work does it take to supply Burger King and others there?


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

They already ship in coffee for the Kitchens..... how much more work would it be to change brands?


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

Well...
IIRC in 1992 during the fun times in Sarajevo :-X, the big news from the MND at the time, Marcel Masse, was that "all maple syrup for the CF was to purchased from Quebec." Mind you, we shall see since uncle Rick is keen on the idea.


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

if you want to use maple syrup as a sweetner - fine, let's have a little bit of Quebec in our cuppa joe.


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## Bzzliteyr (26 Feb 2006)

Just a little thing I noticed when driving across the Countries last year.. in the US you pay the same for a med. dbl-dbl as you do in Canada, so with the exchange rate it makes for a mighty 'spensive cup of java.

(ref: third page price discussion)


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> if you want to use maple syrup as a sweetner - fine, let's have a little bit of Quebec in our cuppa joe.


Doesn't Starbucks do that already and give it an Italian name? Mucho Grande Syropa d'Maple? ;D



			
				Teltech said:
			
		

> Well...
> IIRC in 1992 during the fun times in Sarajevo :-X, the big news from the MND at the time, Marcel Masse, was that "all maple syrup for the CF was to purchased from Quebec." Mind you, we shall see since uncle Rick is keen on the idea.



I meant keen on Timmies - I don't know how he takes his coffee. Anyone? ;D


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

nah.... mucho denieros


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## McG (26 Feb 2006)

I drink Timmies every day (it's brewed close enough for me to pitch a stone at it) and it is free.  

I've been to the Green Bean by the PX.  The only reason that I can see people spending money there is because they want a fruity coffee (of the type Timmies does not provide) or because they are actually paying for the atmosphere (it has a porch that you can sit out on & discuss issues of an unclassified nature).

 . . . but, if you really want the shaded porch you can get a free coffee from the PSP folk by the UMS (and if you feel the need to fork over money for a coffee then they offer cappuccino at a much lower price than Green Bean).


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

A small thought...
Instead of a full blown outlet, what if they shipped a few cases of Timmies cups (L & XL) w/ lids for use in the mess hall? I think it's all psychological anyway. Besides, I had my daily dose, so life is good.


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

Unless you're on ships, it's not Timmy coffee..... so there would be no truth in advertising Teltech


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## teltech (26 Feb 2006)

My bad.. I should have added - in addition to shipping the Tim's coffee over.


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## Korus (26 Feb 2006)

> A small thought...
> Instead of a full blown outlet, what if they shipped a few cases of Timmies cups (L & XL) w/ lids for use in the mess hall? I think it's all psychological anyway. Besides, I had my daily dose, so life is good.



Well, every so often they had real Timmie's cups in Canada House (The Canadian hangout on Kandahar Airfield), plus Timmie's always on brew from the HUGE amount of cans that we got from Op Santa Clause and other means.. It didn't quite taste the same as Timmie's from back home, and they didn't have the Timmie's creamer (we had the fake milk from the DFAC (US contractor *D*ining *FAC*ility) I think it's the creamer that really makes the 'double double' what it is..


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

Given that the CME look after the water, I won't say that it's got something to do with the aqua 
Blame it on the synthetic cow I guess.


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## Armymedic (28 Feb 2006)

Heres a quote from an article I seen just now:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1140824434282



> Brace yourself. Green Bean's secret weapon is a sort of triple-triple — a $4.50 (U.S.) iced confection of three shots espresso, chocolate syrup and steamed milk. The Canadian battle group of about 2,200 is lining up in droves



$5.00 Coffee ?   ??? ?

So why do we need Tim's in KAF?


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## Thompson_JM (28 Feb 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Heres a quote from an article I seen just now:
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1140824434282
> 
> ...



Ice Caps are Marginally Cheaper


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## geo (28 Feb 2006)

Pricing in Kandahar for Timmies hasn't been set
hold onto your tuques


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## Korus (28 Feb 2006)

> $5.00 Coffee ? Shocked  Huh ?
> 
> So why do we need Tim's in KAF?



The "Green Beans" at KAF is like a Starbucks. It's all overpriced designer coffee...


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## The Gues-|- (28 Feb 2006)

Nearing the end of a CTV interview today, BG Fraser is quoted as saying "Tim Horton's better get their ass over here"


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## geo (28 Feb 2006)

.... If that's all he has to bitch about..... it's a good thing!


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## reccecrewman (28 Feb 2006)

Don't forget the price of a blizzard at the Dairy Queen over there - $7.00 US! I kept the receipt for the novelty, the top line of it reads DAIRY QUEEN - KABUL, AFGHANISTAN  ;D


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## Franko (28 Feb 2006)

Alrighty...I'll weigh in here and try to give some insight.

Timmies will never get the go ahead to open a franchise there as long as Green Bean is there. They have the monopoly.....period.

The food chains are contracted through KBR, which is co-owned by....drum roll please....the VP of the US. We can't even get our own contractors to go in and do work...KBR does it all, at a snail's pace at that.

Timmies will not be given any sort of military flight room, they'd have to fly it all in themselves...there by jacking up the price of every cup of joe.

As it stands right now the average cup at Green Beans in KAF is sitting at approx $3.50 US.

Another good example of how bad it gets....Subway on the new board walk runs out of supplies quite regularly. Before I left for home, there was only 3 different types of salami and no tomatoes, pickels,olives and only 1 type of bread....sesame. Burger King ran out of fries over a month ago....you get the idea.

I'd personally rather see Tim Horton's donate tins of coffee to Canada House in KAF and in Kabul for the Kabul 100.

They can make their own coffee and have at least a small reminder of home and to know that at least one corperation cares enough for the troops to have that flown in so they can have a cup of Timmies first thing in the morning before going out on patrol.

Besides....the MPs would be sitting in the Tim's instead of chasing down speeders who go over the 16 km/h limit     :

Dream on troops.....it ain't going to happen.

My $0.02 worth.

Regards


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## Kunu (28 Feb 2006)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Just a little thing I noticed when driving across the Countries last year.. in the US you pay the same for a med. dbl-dbl as you do in Canada, so with the exchange rate it makes for a mighty 'spensive cup of java.
> 
> (ref: third page price discussion)



One interesting thing I noticed the last time I was down at an American Timmy's was that they only had S, M, and L sizes of coffee, no XL.  Everything was also scaled up, making a US small = Canadian medium, and so on.


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## buzgo (28 Feb 2006)

Are people really this hung up on Tim Horton's? Its not even that good, the taste is all in the cream... 

Plus I believe that Franko has hit the nail right on the head, KBR is not going to allow them to set up shop in their 'territory'. How is Tim's going to ship their gear over? Fed Ex?


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## herseyjh (28 Feb 2006)

I saw a show on KBR and their idea of supporting the troops.  Now don't get me wrong I am all for making life as comfortable as possible, but doesn't the idea of having a franchise set up in the middle of an army base seem a bit odd?  Just a thought.


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## geo (28 Feb 2006)

Hershey.... you haven't thought this one thru - have you
imagine the customers that these franchises would get if they were operating on the other side of the wire.
You suggesting that our guys go out of camp every day / every night to walk to wherever....... This ain't Kansas Toto!!


----------



## herseyjh (1 Mar 2006)

I have thought it through.  Just think on your days off you could walk out the gate, have a Tims, then wonder down the road to the new Gap store and pick up some stylin' tan cargo pants........

No, that is not what I meant with my statement.  I was asking what level of support is needed to keep troops happy.  Is it bare bones military support or is it customer based service, like KBR, where you can get all the shit that you can get back home?  Or some place in the middle?

I am not saying you should suffer while on deployment, but does it make sense to have a Burger King in your camp?


----------



## geo (1 Mar 2006)

the US Forces, with their umpteen thousands of troops have felt that a little bit of Home & mom's apple pie is justified.

Up until now - Canada has felt that something like Canada House has been satisfactory.
You be the judge


----------



## herseyjh (1 Mar 2006)

Well if I am going to be the judge, then I would say it is sending the wrong message.

We will now turn the question around:  If you are some local from Iraq, Afghanistan, or where ever and you look over at the large military base what do you think goes thought that person's mind when you see all of these western stores?  Troops macking down on burgers and stuff?  Spending $5 on a coffee, or having the cost back loaded through contracts like the US and KBR?  To a poor local that might seem excessive, expensive and wasteful.  Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.


----------



## raymao (1 Mar 2006)

signalsguy said:
			
		

> Are people really this hung up on Tim Horton's? Its not even that good, the taste is all in the cream...



signals... it's not until you cut the fat (cream) that you really recognize the unique taste of Tim's. "XL double milk... no sugar". It wasn't until I was in my late 20's that I began to really love the taste of coffee.


----------



## 043 (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> Well if I am going to be the judge, then I would say it is sending the wrong message.
> 
> We will now turn the question around:  If you are some local from Iraq, Afghanistan, or where ever and you look over at the large military base what do you think goes thought that person's mind when you see all of these western stores?  Troops macking down on burgers and stuff?  Spending $5 on a coffee, or having the cost back loaded through contracts like the US and KBR?  To a poor local that might seem excessive, expensive and wasteful.  Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.
> 
> You are kidding right?


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (1 Mar 2006)

The coffee here is 5 bucks only if you buy one of those fancy ones (and I can't pronounce them).  A standard cup is $1.75, which ain't all bad as a little luxury item for the day.  As for prices/availability, the food in the chow hall is free.

Having recreation facilities and little bits of home available certainly helps maintain morale.  I suppose it can be taken to an extreme, but I don't think that we are there. 

That being said, a Timmies was the first thing I hit on HLTA during my last tour...

Cheers,

2B


----------



## geo (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.


one big problem is..... not all locals are friendly.
Troops need time to rest and relax.... making change, having a burger or a double double while wearing vest, helmet and packing a C7 AND looking over your shoulder for AQ or Taliban is not relaxing.

Locals don't come into the camp, they do not get to see the boardwalk, they do not get to taste our little taste of home - and they shouldn't - cause it isn't part of their way of life.

time to wake up and smell the coffee!
(no more time to waste on this thread - Bye!)


----------



## COBRA-6 (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> Well if I am going to be the judge, then I would say it is sending the wrong message.
> 
> We will now turn the question around:  If you are some local from Iraq, Afghanistan, or where ever and you look over at the large military base what do you think goes thought that person's mind when you see all of these western stores?  Troops macking down on burgers and stuff?  Spending $5 on a coffee, or having the cost back loaded through contracts like the US and KBR?  To a poor local that might seem excessive, expensive and wasteful.  Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.



Have you talked to the locals, or is this just idle hypothesising from someone thousands of kilometers away with no feel for the situation on the ground??


----------



## George Wallace (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> Well if I am going to be the judge, then I would say it is sending the wrong message.
> 
> We will now turn the question around:  If you are some local from Iraq, Afghanistan, or where ever and you look over at the large military base what do you think goes thought that person's mind when you see all of these western stores?  Troops macking down on burgers and stuff?  Spending $5 on a coffee, or having the cost back loaded through contracts like the US and KBR?  To a poor local that might seem excessive, expensive and wasteful.  Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.



You do realize that franchises such as McDonald's, Burger King, etc. are prime targets around the world for those who feel threatened by their perceived conceptions of American Imperialism.


----------



## herseyjh (1 Mar 2006)

I hope some people can see the message that I am saying.  I am not saying lets run an open base, and I am not saying that the troops shouldn't be supported, what I am saying is how you are perceived can directly impact on how people relate to you and having your base look like the Mall of America can cause problems.  That is it.  All kinds of people have been on tour and survived without making where they are look like home, as well, it isn't home.


----------



## George Wallace (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> ......  All kinds of people have been on tour and survived without making where they are look like home, as well, it isn't home.



That isn't true.  Every deployment we go on, we make things look like home, and improve on them with each ROTO that follows.  Be it our Mess, our gym, whatever, we try to set up our own little corner of home wherever we go.

If the Foreign Nationals don't get to see or use those facilities, what is your problem?


----------



## Danjanou (1 Mar 2006)

2Bravo said:
			
		

> The coffee here is 5 bucks only if you buy one of those fancy ones (and I can't pronounce them).  A standard cup is $1.75, which ain't all bad as a little luxury item for the day.  As for prices/availability, the food in the chow hall is free.
> 
> Having recreation facilities and little bits of home available certainly helps maintain morale.  I suppose it can be taken to an extreme, but I don't think that we are there.
> 
> ...



The FIRST thing? That's sad. ;D


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## herseyjh (1 Mar 2006)

It seems that most people here are happy with having this sort of service.  When compared to what soldiers had on previous operations it does look desirable; however, the more like home you make a place the more service and support is required to maintain that level of service.  This goes hand in hand and if it gets out of hand then problems arise.  We just have to look at the KBR/Iraq problem to see this.  We are, of course, a far cry from there but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be considering that as a potential problem if we continue down this road.  Was having a mess and a gym and maybe a TV room that bad, or do we need to have that and a Pizza Hut to be relaxed?


----------



## George Wallace (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> Was having a mess and a gym and maybe a TV room that bad, or do we need to have that and a Pizza Hut to be relaxed?



You seem to be missing a lot in your look at this situation, especially in you last comment about being relaxed.  Being relaxed after a Patrol or some other 'nasty' task or encounter is exactly the point.  Once upon a time the Mess covered that requirement, with a few beers and the camaraderie of your mates to 'de-stress' and get things off your mind.  Now we have a Mess environment overseas, where you may have a Coke and then try to get a good nights sleep.  We do need things to 'de-stress' and relax.  If Tims should become one of the stress relievers, so be it.  The Americans, with their Burger Kings, Starbucks, Green Beans, Pizza Huts, etc. have found that to be one way.  If you truly want our guys to become tightly wound up, that is your opinion, and contrary to their better health.  And people wonder why our young soldiers are getting stressed out.


----------



## herseyjh (1 Mar 2006)

I am not saying I want troops all wound up.  When you talk about soldiers health and stress emotions kick in and the natural response it to say give them everything that they need.  Make the place look like home.  You can do this, and it will make people relax, but you have to bear in mind that this comes at a price.  We just have to find the middle ground, the balance that will keep the troops happy, but mitigate all the problems that having Army Inc. running your base.  Maybe I am a bit old school here but I was happy with the support that I received, I found time to relax, and that was with the more traditional 'military' approach: the mess, gym, ect...  I guess time will tell if this new model of care will keep the troops more relaxed.


----------



## DFW2T (1 Mar 2006)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> I am not saying I want troops all wound up.  When you talk about soldiers health and stress emotions kick in and the natural response it to say give them everything that they need.  Make the place look like home.  You can do this, and it will make people relax, but you have to bear in mind that this comes at a price.  We just have to find the middle ground, the balance that will keep the troops happy, but mitigate all the problems that having Army Inc. running your base.  Maybe I am a bit old school here but I was happy with the support that I received, I found time to relax, and that was with the more traditional 'military' approach: the mess, gym, ect...  I guess time will tell if this new model of care will keep the troops more relaxed.


 You have to understand that alto of the Americans in Iraq and in Afghanistan are on their second and third (possibly fourth) tour in either Iraq or Afghanistan or both.  Also,  when they go on tour their rotations are not fixed in the sense that they will go on tour for six months.  Many I know have done tours that were a year or longer.  So taking that into account and knowing first hand what an average day on the ground for the average ground troop entails,  I think the little quality of life measures like a Burger King or a CinnaBon (sic?) are an important morale tool.  Personally I think the risks involved in hiring TCNs and LEEs are minimal (when proper security measures are taken) and the positives outweigh the negatives (at least in the case of Americans).

Just my $0.02
DFW2T


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## George Wallace (1 Mar 2006)

I am reminded of that old saying (most guys with TI in a Field Unit remember) "Any 'idiot' can be miserable in the Field,........."

We are now working in some of the worse Shyteholes on the planet.  If these types of facilities can even give the temporary illusion of 'Normalacy', then why not?  Is it not cheaper to provide 'preventative medicine' than having to treat a full blown disease later.  The expense of setting up these facilities, may be cheaper than the alternative of not setting them up.  Money is not the only expense we are talking about.  We are also talking about the Morale, and Mental Health of our Troops.

So that brings us back to "Any idiot can be miserable in the Field......"  Many of us have learned what 'creature comforts' we can take with us, given the resources available.  If they are available, let's use them.


----------



## Deleted member 585 (1 Mar 2006)

I feel that Tim Hortons already sufficiently supports deployed CF members -- smell the *free* java at KAF's Canada House.  I felt fortunate to have heat and lights in my tent--and since I deploy domestically an average of two-hundred-fifty plus days a year on TD in fair-to-swanky accommodations, I think that makes a statement.

I understand the principal from which many of the complaints arise, but it may take more than inserting a Tim's trailer into the Afghani theatre for it to feel anything like home.  Before you know it, someone will want to have their PMV shipped over in a sea-can so he can drive to the KAF Odeon...


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## Cdn_Chimo (1 Mar 2006)

I have just returned this weekend from KAF from the Engineer TAV. One of our tasks was to work on the Boardwalk project to line the sea cans for the PSP store and ice cream bar. As a joke, we put up a Timmies logo and put up an Opening Soon on a 8.5 X 11 piece of paper. The reaction was so great, and the moral lift was so high when people saw it, we had to take it down so we wouldn't cause a riot later. I think that Timmies would do extremely well there. No need for the donuts or that crap. Just peddle the coffee with the proper brewing machines. We all huddled around Canada House and the HQ Compound Canteen with our Capichino's (sp?) 0.50$. On occasion, spending the 2$ on the Green Beans Coffee. It was a good break from the dust and constant smell of sewer from the lagoons. I really can't understand why someone would even consider not thinking this would be a good idea for the troops. As we all say, any idiot can be uncomfortable. the more the amenities, the more morale is lifted and the better the troops feel, the better they perform. It makes sense. The US troops have 2 Green Beans Coffee joints, a Pizza Hut, a Subway (which vary rarely has veggies), and a Burger King which rarely has friesbut we still went to these spots because it was a piece of home and the line ups at the DFACS were crazy most of the time. It was a good break. Why count on the US amenities?

Bring on the Timmies!


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## George Wallace (1 Mar 2006)

St. Onge said:
			
		

> ....  Before you know it, someone will want to have their PMV shipped over in a sea-can so he can drive to the KAF Odeon...


Wait ten or fifteen years.   ;D   Instead of CFE Lahr, we'll have CFA Kandahar.......


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## geo (1 Mar 2006)

I really question Hershey's experience.
To me, he's just trolling..... regardless of claiming a 031 / 711 pedigree.


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## Franko (1 Mar 2006)

St. Onge said:
			
		

> I feel that Tim Hortons already sufficiently supports deployed CF members -- smell the *free* java at KAF's Canada House.



Hate to burst the bubble on this....

Tim's is planning on droping all support less the Op Santa coffee tins. I was told this by some of the PSP folks....to my surprise BTW.

The coffee that was there when we left was from everyone who donated their own cans of Timmies...including myself.

The brew that was there most days was Maxwell House.....Timmies on the rare occasion. The PSP keep it under lock and key because SOMEONE TOOK CANS for their own personal use.

Regards


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## Cdn_Chimo (2 Mar 2006)

The Timmies that just showed up at the PSP sea-can this past week was purchased buy PSP funds. It was 65 cases of coffee for 5500$. And yes Frank it was Maxwell House at Canada House. 

Scotty P


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## Korus (2 Mar 2006)

And nobodies bringing up the 50 cent sugarbombs from the cappuccino machine? Man those things were good...


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## Franko (2 Mar 2006)

Cdn_Chimo said:
			
		

> The Timmies that just showed up at the PSP sea-can this past week was purchased buy PSP funds. It was 65 cases of coffee for 5500$. And yes Frank it was Maxwell House at Canada House.
> 
> Scotty P



Too bad no one could figure out that if you empty the pot you had to make the next 'eh?    :

Regards


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## wookie11 (3 Mar 2006)

I would love to have Tim Horton's hot chocolate and honey cruller in Kandahar
I'd probably eat it everyday and get fat.. hehe


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## painswessex (7 Mar 2006)

Just in timmies is going to kandahar


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## armyvern (7 Mar 2006)

I'm sure that the troops will deeply appreciate that little taste of home!


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## painswessex (7 Mar 2006)

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=6a6e5b95-b0ba-4423-ae86-356b52ee1511&k=83268

Here is the story


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## Armymedic (7 Mar 2006)

except from article:



> "Whether there's an actual Tim Hortons (store) or not, it does allow us to identify with home.''
> 
> He said the coffee stand will be very handy during late night or early morning patrols and when troops need something to remind them of home.
> 
> "Let's paint a scenario of a patrol going out of Kandahar. It could be 2 a.m. ... and this would be several hours before deploying. Quite conceivably they would attend ... with a coffee in hand because it is ... semi-informal, and what people do at 2 a.m. is drink coffee,'' he said.



Like it will be open that late for those who patrol at 0200 in the am....

Yeah, I'll believe it when someone puts the first picture of a KAF served Tim's on this site.


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## geo (7 Mar 2006)

good story painswessex......
while I think it would be even better to have Timmy's coffee served (gratis) in the Mess Kitchen (like they have on HMCShips) - I guess this is the next best thing. 
Wonder if they are going to have a drive thru window designed for LAVIIIs?
..... whups - potholes and spilled coffee.... don't do like the old lady from California - put the coffee cup between her thighs and ended up with 3rd degree burns from the coffee :warstory:


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## Franko (7 Mar 2006)

Never thought I'd ever see the day.....saw it on A Channel Ottawa.

As for them being open at 0200.....I'll believe it when I see it.

Regards


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## painswessex (7 Mar 2006)

who is going to serve the finely brewed coffee? I personaly think a couple of MAXIM girls in bikinis would be nice ( and a equally attractive guy for the ladies)


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## Armymedic (7 Mar 2006)

As you are Navy....are you sure the 





> equally attractive guy for the ladies


 is just for the ladies?


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## geo (7 Mar 2006)

nope
Afghans in Burquas?


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## McG (7 Mar 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> while I think it would be even better to have Timmy's coffee served (gratis) in the Mess Kitchen (like they have on HMCShips) - I guess this is the next best thing.


The KBR kitchens have even managed to get salad wrong.  We don't need them touching Timmies.


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## geo (7 Mar 2006)

Hmmmm............
Call me skeptical but: Do you think some Nepalese or Roumanian will be able to do better?


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## McG (7 Mar 2006)

So far they are making much better coffee than KBR.  

. . . but, I'm still content to brew it myself.


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## tomahawk6 (7 Mar 2006)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060306/afghan_timhortons_06030y/20060307?hub=Canada

A little taste of home. The company is one class operation to support the troops like this.


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## Pearson (7 Mar 2006)

"Although Joyce sold his share of the chain in 2003, he received a personal inquiry from Canadian General Rick Hiller about expanding the chain to satisfy his troops' cravings for a taste of home. This put the java-mission in motion"

And here I thought it as the email I sent to Mr. Joyce at his Fox Harbour golf course.

 ;D


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## raymao (8 Mar 2006)

Maybe I'll put my business know-how to good use and submit my application for Tim Hortons - Kandahar instead of the ROTC program.

Then again...


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## COBRA-6 (8 Mar 2006)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060306/afghan_timhortons_06030y/20060307?hub=Canada



CTV fails for using the term peacekeeping or peacekeeper 4 times in that article...


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## clk320 (8 Mar 2006)

PM inbound.


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## vonGarvin (8 Mar 2006)

clk320 said:
			
		

> PM inbound.


The PM is going to Khandahar?  Anyway, just wondering, if someone "over there" rolls the rim and wins, can they have the SUV sent over?  :dontpanic:


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## Franko (8 Mar 2006)

vonGarvin said:
			
		

> The PM is going to Khandahar?  Anyway, just wondering, if someone "over there" rolls the rim and wins, can they have the SUV sent over?  :dontpanic:



Personal Messge    :


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## Jantor (8 Mar 2006)

Maybe roll up the rim and win a G-wagon with 22 inch spinners and a chrome .50 cal.  ;D


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## vonGarvin (8 Mar 2006)

Jantor said:
			
		

> Maybe roll up the rim and win a G-wagon with 22 inch spinners and a chrome .50 cal.  ;D


And a free visit from "Pimp my ride" LOL


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## vonGarvin (8 Mar 2006)

Franko said:
			
		

> Personal Messge    :



Sorry, not quite as "net savvy" as I once was


But at least I still use my DOS commands   ;D


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## The Gues-|- (8 Mar 2006)

Jantor said:
			
		

> Maybe roll up the rim and win a G-wagon with 22 inch spinners and a chrome .50 cal.  ;D



http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73915&page=2&highlight=Horton%27s+Kandahar


----------



## raymao (8 Mar 2006)

I put this pic together. Hopefully it brings a smile.


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## NL_engineer (8 Mar 2006)

It looks like one in the town of Grand Bay Westful NB.


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## painswessex (8 Mar 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> As you are Navy....are you sure the  is just for the ladies?



Ummmmmm.........well you know.......


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## *star (8 Mar 2006)

camochick said:
			
		

> If you really want to show your support you can email Tim Hortons at   customer_service@timhortons.com .
> I think it would be nice to have a Tim Hortons over there. A taste of home might go a long way when it comes to boosting morale.




Maybe now that they're on thier way (according to all reports anyways) all those that encouraged them to go over (or sent them a complaint about how they weren't supporting thier troops) can send them a thanks!

Email for customer service is above...


----------



## Sigop2004 (8 Mar 2006)

This says alot don't know if this has been posted yet! But here it is as of 1948 EST March 8 2006 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/08/20060308-timmys.html :


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## clk320 (9 Mar 2006)

Now i wonder if they will make a pit stop at TSE - CM  ???  Beats going to starbucks and paid $5.00 US for a cup of Java

BTW: ref: <<PM>>.  It is no longer forbidden to mentioned Camp Mirage since an article appeared just recently in The Maple Leaf 22 feb 06 vol 9 no. 8 on page 10.  The OPSEC issues are with the location of the camp that’s all.  :warstory:


----------



## meg (9 Mar 2006)

Stumbled on this last night on cbc.ca.  Just about fell out of my chair laughing.  The article has disappered from the website today, but really, every one here needs to see this. 

I was wondering what everyone else thinks about it.  Could be a good morale booster...then again, could be problems with cranky soldiers if the shipment of coffee is delayed for some reason.  

I wanna see the line-up of LAVs outside the drive-through every morning.


*Tim Hortons to open in Kandahar*
Last Updated Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:48:39 EST
CBC News

Tim Hortons officials say they will open a store at the Kandahar military airfield in Afghanistan within the next few months.

Canadian soldiers have reportedly been lobbying for weeks for the move. Their requests were passed on to Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier, who passed the message on to the company.

In a news release issued Wednesday, Tim Hortons says it will convert a trailer and deliver it to the Canadian Forces for use in Afghanistan. Military personnel will be able to purchase selected baked goods and beverages, including coffee.

The Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, the morale and welfare arm of the Canadian Forces, will be responsible for staffing and training, and also for operation of the trailer.

"I know I speak for all the men and women of the Canadian Forces when I say that I'm delighted to hear this news," Gen. Hillier said in the news release.

"Opening a Tim Hortons to serve our troops in Afghanistan strengthens an already superb relationship between two great Canadian institutions. I would like to thank Tim Hortons for their endless support of the Canadian Forces over the years."

Former police officer Ron Joyce co-founded the famous chain in Hamilton in 1964 with the late NHL hockey player, Tim Horton.

In 1995, Tim Hortons merged with U.S.-based Wendy's International and became a wholly-owned subsidiary of the fast-food burger chain.

Wendy's announced earlier this month that it had stepped up plans to spin off Tim Hortons, saying it will sell its remaining stake in the popular coffee and doughnut chain by the end of the year.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/08/20060308-timmys.html


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## Armymedic (9 Mar 2006)

meg said:
			
		

> In a news release issued Wednesday, Tim Hortons says it will convert a trailer and deliver it to the Canadian Forces for use in Afghanistan. Military personnel will be able to purchase selected baked goods and beverages, including coffee.
> 
> The Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, the morale and welfare arm of the Canadian Forces, will be responsible for staffing and training, and also for operation of the trailer.



Sure when the flights get in...

So CFPSA is running it.....so then is the Tim's going to be free?


----------



## GonzoK83 (9 Mar 2006)

Damn I wish we had that in Maple Leaf. :crybaby:


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## Blakey (9 Mar 2006)

"Tim Hortons better get its @ss over here" Brig-Gen. David Fraser  lol  
Edited to add: Old Interview

05:20 of Interview


----------



## Fishbone Jones (9 Mar 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Sure when the flights get in...
> 
> So CFPSA is running it.....so then is the Tim's going to be free?



Not likely :, but you can probably imagine that all the freebies that Timmies used to send over will now dry up. CANEX won't want to risk the competition.  If you want a Timmie's, you'll have to buy it from them. Just my guess though.


----------



## Thompson_JM (9 Mar 2006)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Not likely :, but you can probably imagine that all the freebies that Timmies used to send over will now dry up. CANEX won't want to risk the competition.  If you want a Timmie's, you'll have to buy it from them. Just my guess though.



not all of them I'm sure.... unless they start opening them on ships etc.. I'm sure there will still be some donations... (okay.. wishfull thinking..) hopefully it wont stop, but I'm sure they will scale back the amount of free coffee etc...

cheers
   Josh


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## GonzoK83 (9 Mar 2006)

As quoted in the CBC report "opening a Tim Hortons to serve our troops in Afghanistan strengthens an already superb relationship between two great Canadian institutions." 
That kind of cracks me up. Let's start a new battalion "Tim's Own Service Battalion" I wanna see the cap brass for that. ;D


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## Armymedic (9 Mar 2006)

GonzoK83 said:
			
		

> Let's start a new battalion "Tim's Own Service Battalion" I wanna see the cap brass for that. ;D



Who cares about cap brass. More importantly, would they get a tan beret?


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## raymao (10 Mar 2006)

Apparently doughnuts and the war effort have gone hand and hand for a while.

In August, 1917, fighting raged near Montiers, France, as soldiers huddled in camp - hungry, weary and drenched by 36 consecutive days of rain. In a tent near the front lines, Salvation Army lassies made donuts by filling a refuge pail with oil, made dough with left over flour and other ingredients on hand, and used a wine bottle as a rolling pin. With a baking powder tin for a cutter end a camphor-ice suck tube for making the holes, donuts were fried - seven at a time - in soldier's steel helmets on an 18-inch stove. (Later, a seven-pound shell fitted with a one-pound shell was used to cut out the donut holes.) 
Rain fell continuously, the water-soaked tent finally Collapsed. However, the 100 donuts made that first day were an immediate success Soon, as many as 500 soldiers stood in muck outside the resurrected tent waiting for the sweet taste of donuts and, before long, 9,000 donuts were being made around the clock. The tent became the first 24-hour donut shop.

http://home.comcast.net/~osoono/ethnicdoughs/doughnut/WW1-donuts.jpg&im


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## Pearson (12 Mar 2006)

Reply received from Tim Horton's regarding thank you note I sent.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to communicate your positive
feedback to the Afghanistan issue.
 We certainly _are pleased to read and hear how our new and latest  press
release has gained approval_. I have forwarded your kind words to our
Marketing department.

Thank you again for your thoughtful comments,

Yours Truly,

Sonia
THE TDL GROUP CORP.,


I pointed out to them that it was not their "_ new and latest  press
release_" that gained approval, but their actions.


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## raymao (14 Mar 2006)

In somewhat related news...

Lawyer seeks DNA test on coffee cup
Mar. 14, 2006. 01:00 AM
DENE MOORE
CANADIAN PRESS


MONTREAL—A Montreal lawyer wants a DNA test on a prize-winning Tim Hortons coffee cup that has already pitted two elementary school girls against one another.

Claude Archambault said his client bought the coffee cup that was picked out of the garbage bin by a 10-year-old girl in St-Jerome, north of Montreal.

Archambault sent a letter to Tim Hortons last week asking the company not to award the prize SUV until the matter is resolved. "He's very sympathetic toward the girls who found the cup, but he said, `I bought it, and I should be the one who should be paid.' That's his position."

The company has not yet responded to Archambault's letter.


Archambault said there is a witness who saw his client with the cup but he would like a DNA test.

"That, I think, is ridiculous," said David Lametti, a law professor at McGill University. "You might make a claim of ongoing ownership if you lose something ... but this was thrown away, it was abandoned."

And under Quebec civil law, when a person abandons an object he relinquishes his claim, he said.

It's the second dispute over the cup.

According to media reports, the 10-year-old who plucked it from the garbage can last Tuesday couldn't unroll the rim with her small fingers and asked for help from a 12-year-old school mate. When the cup turned out to be a winner, one of 30 with Toyota RAV4 written under the rim, a dispute erupted over who had claim to the $28,700 prize.

In Sault Ste. Marie, Manuela Phillips and Kristine Dahlmann had shared free doughnuts and coffees in the past, but were shocked when Dahlman unrolled the big win Thursday: a Toyota RAV4. They had agreed to share the prize.


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## GonzoK83 (14 Mar 2006)

Yeah I seen that on the news. Once again "lottery  syndrome". Companies should have safe gaurds in place incase of disputes such as these. If I was up against somthing like this I would just give in. Cause the time lawyers and court time adds up, the winningare depreciated. Either that or have them pit up and a galdiator arena. :crybaby:


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## raymao (14 Mar 2006)

I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure our courts can decide this one with existing laws. One girl threw her cup in the garbage, therefore abandoning her ownership. The other girl retrieved it, rolled up the rim and 'kudos for her' a brand new Toyota Rav4. If these kids had more decent parents, a good example, considering these girls were friends, would be to sell the damned car or take a cash alternative, and split the winnings.


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## Spr.Earl (14 Mar 2006)

At least it will better than eating at Chaney's.


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## BKells (15 Mar 2006)

raymao said:
			
		

> I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure our courts can decide this one with existing laws. One girl threw her cup in the garbage, therefore abandoning her ownership. The other girl retrieved it, rolled up the rim and 'kudos for her' a brand new Toyota Rav4. If these kids had more decent parents, a good example, considering these girls were friends, would be to sell the damned car or take a cash alternative, and split the winnings.



Did you even read the article?


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## Fishbone Jones (15 Mar 2006)

Go start another thread if your worried about a couple of girls and their goofy parents. This one is about the Tim's overseas.


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## raymao (15 Mar 2006)

BKells said:
			
		

> Did you even read the article?



Yes Bkells I did. The parents of one of the girls refuses to share the prize.

End of this story. Back to Kandahar.


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## geo (15 Mar 2006)

pps.. 
"stingy" dad was upset that the parent of the other girl had gone to the press and plastered the story across the province - press, TV & Radio - within 6 hours - and I don't blame him.

He had indicated he would share - though not stipulating the extent - and wasn't about to let anyone dictate to him. It's his daughter's prize money - regardless.

Timmy's has indicated (rightly so) it doesn't want to get involved in the dispute.

Back to Kandahar and our regularly scheduled blog


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## coffeemonkey (16 Mar 2006)

I thought I should wade in on this issue because I am a man in uniform myself. That is, I work for Tim Hortons.

When I first heard about this I was fully in favour. I serve over 500 customers every day and I am amazed at the effect Tim Hortons has on Canadians. When I thought about the troops in Kandahar I realized that Tim Hortons could bring a tiny bit of Canada to a lot of people who are thousands of miles from home. I didn't think it was going to happen, but now that it's a go. I want to be there.

I am known for providing high quality customer service. I make my customers smile and laugh, but more importantly, I get their orders done right and as fast as humanly possible. I make my customers feel good. Many have told me that buying a coffe from me is thier favourite part of their working day.

I, for one, would be proud and honoured to serve our troops.

A cup of coffee might seem a small and trivial thing, but if you do the job correctly a good server can change a customer's mood for the better and help them with their day.

My only worry is that hundreds of Timmy employees feel like I do and there will only be 20 or so spots in Afghanistan.


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## raymao (16 Mar 2006)

coffeemonkey, even though you wear a tanned coloured uniform, I'm pretty sure the staff will be wearing CF uniforms. Thanks, but double milk will be all today.


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## coffeemonkey (16 Mar 2006)

You're probably right but at this point I have the feeling that nobody has quite figured out how this is going to happen and as long as I have a shot, I am going to put my name forward.

If they use CF personnel to staff the place I think it is important to make sure they are trained as actual Timmy employees. There is much more to Tim Hortons than coffee. I sell big cans of the coffee to people leaving Canada and they still miss the place even while carrying five kilos of the stuff to Asia.

If this is going to be done, it should be done right. If not you might as well just put a sign reading "Tim Hortons" over a coffeemaker somewhere.

At the very least the staff should be wearing a uniform like mine while working. Even if they have earned the right to wear another. 

That's a Medium Coffee Double Milk and no sugar. That will be $1.25. Thank you very much and have a wonderful day.


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## raymao (16 Mar 2006)

coffeemonkey said:
			
		

> You're probably right but at this point I have the feeling that nobody has quite figured out how this is going to happen and as long as I have a shot, I am going to put my name forward.



If you really want to go, you'd better start training now and put your application into the nearest recruiting office. Please read below...

Tim Hortons to open in Kandahar
Last Updated Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:48:39 EST 
CBC News

"The Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, the morale and welfare arm of the Canadian Forces, will be responsible for staffing and training, and also for operation of the trailer."

We already know who is operating it.


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## GonzoK83 (16 Mar 2006)

coffeemonkey, 
If you feel that you career is rewarding, go down to the local requriting center and join up. I you you will see true service with a smile. (remembering CSM don't doesn't you. )

After being in the civi world for a few years I kind of got back to not really appreciting the advantages we have every day. As a generalization; I think a little peice of home on tour can go a long way for moral.

I think DND should hook up a couple battle ready timmies employee's and have a bunch of trailers on stand by. Give them a tan beret why not? Laugh about it if you want but it all good sense. (But then again I'm an idividual now)


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## coffeemonkey (16 Mar 2006)

CFPSA has not returned my phone calls or emails. 
If they even had things together enough to tell me I couldn't go, they would have by now.

I am a civillian. I didn't know what CFPSA was until last week. I notice they have openings on their website for several positions but nothing on this.

If I have to actually be a member of the Canadian Forces to work for CFPSA then I am out of luck. The CF wouldn't take me even if Canada was invaded and the enemy had advanced as far as Portage and Main.

But if CFPSA is considering non-military personnel for Timmy's I have a shot. Even if it's a longshot, I am going to keep trying until I am told beyond a shadow of a doubt that I can't go.

I believe in this project and I feel I can help make it a success. 

At the very least, whoever gets to go should know how to be a real Tim  Hortons staffer. I'll admit my uniform garners very little respect in this world,  not to mention it's an easier uniform to get than the ones that many people on this board wear. But I am still proud of my uniform and what it means. I wouldn't want my uniform to be disgraced by people who don't know how to present an Icecap straw with a flourish, don't know how to make the perfect Mocha, or have never learned the Art of Coffee.

It may not be the highest status job in the world, but it should be done right. I can do it right and if they don't take me they'd better find someone at least as good as me.


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## vonGarvin (16 Mar 2006)

THIS is what it's all about, folks.  Looks like we have someone from whom some of us could learn a lesson: pride in his/her work.  Coffeemonkey, your uniform may not garnish the same respect as others, but given your posts here, it sounds like the most important person in the world has respect for it and what it represents: you.  Cheers mate, and I'm a large double double


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## GonzoK83 (16 Mar 2006)

vonGarvin said:
			
		

> THIS is what it's all about, folks.  Looks like we have someone from whom some of us could learn a lesson: pride in his/her work.  Coffeemonkey, your uniform may not garnish the same respect as others, but given your posts here, it sounds like the most important person in the world has respect for it and what it represents: you.  Cheers mate, and I'm a large double double



VonGarvin,
You said it for me I was thinking the same thing. (pretty musch the same thing)


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## COBRA-6 (16 Mar 2006)

spell check damnit!


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## geo (6 Apr 2006)

Just got my daily fix of News out of Kandahar. It would appear that The PSP people have brought in some Cuban cigars to supplement the rolled-camelhair ones previously available. If the will was there, they'd probably be able to refinance the national debt off of these little guys.  

More good news - the Tim Horton's reconnaissance team arrived Monday and the Boston Creams may be served for the first time in KAF as early as the end of this month!  Wheels are turning; life is good.  And, for a change, the prevailing wind Monday was not from over the Emerald Lagoon. 

Life just doesn't get much better than this....


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## COBRA-6 (6 Apr 2006)

Cuban cigars? You mean the 5 for $2 Swisher Sweet PX cigars are not up to standard ??? Well _I _ love them! Brought home 4 packs! Not to mention the Beach-Nut chewing tobacco, mmm... less than $2 a pouch!

But the real question is - will the Yanks be able to buy the Cubans??


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## geo (6 Apr 2006)

once the paper rings are off the cigars...... who'se to say that they're cuban?


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## Korus (7 Apr 2006)

> Cuban cigars? You mean the 5 for $2 Swisher Sweet PX cigars are not up to standard Huh Well I  love them! Brought home 4 packs! Not to mention the Beach-Nut chewing tobacco, mmm... less than $2 a pouch!



I loved the OEF logos plastered on the cigar tubes at the PX in KAF... too funny.


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## vonGarvin (7 Apr 2006)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> But the real question is - will the Yanks be able to buy the Cubans??


Tin Helmets on: war story:
When deployed to Haiti as part of Op HALO, we were OPCOM to MAGTF 8: USMC.  (Their mission was Op SECURE TOMORROW).  Cubans were available everywhere (both the people AND the cigars!).  I asked a marine about him smoking a Cuban, and whether or not it was contraband.  He looked around and said "This ain't the US of A"   So, I think while deployed, they dont' mind, or a blind eye is turned.  But officially, I bet that they aren't allowed.


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## geo (7 Apr 2006)

have seen enough of Americans in Montreal gobbling up the Cuban cigars during Grand Prix weekend..... 
How they bring em back over the border is their concern


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## *star (7 Apr 2006)

The jobs are open...."previous Tim Horton's experience will be considered an asset"

BAKER

http://www.cfpsa.com/en/services/hr/pubjobdetails_e.asp?job=2436

FOOD SERVICE ATTENDANT

http://www.cfpsa.com/en/services/hr/pubjobdetails_e.asp?job=2437


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## Bobbyoreo (7 Apr 2006)

Not bad pay for slinging coffee....plus TAX FREE!!!  God Bless Canada


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## camochick (8 Apr 2006)

I found them some employees.  >


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## Glorified Ape (8 Apr 2006)

*star said:
			
		

> The jobs are open...."previous Tim Horton's experience will be considered an asset"
> 
> BAKER
> 
> ...



I'm glad, for coffemonkey's sake. Sounds like he'd be an ideal person to have in the position, judging from his attitude.


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## Danjanou (8 Apr 2006)

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> I'm glad, for coffemonkey's sake. Sounds like he'd be an ideal person to have in the position, judging from his attitude.



Yeah I hope he applied


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## GAP (9 Apr 2006)

When the links came up, I jokingly sent one to my 23 year old son, telling him he could see MJP before any of us. He Applied (he's got oodles of restaurant experience with Canad Inns)  :


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## karl28 (9 Apr 2006)

Thats an awesome oportunity for some one .


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## q_1966 (10 Apr 2006)

Tim Hortons...Because you dont want to pay $3.00 for a cup of Coffee

Im sure that if they did open, in afghanistan they would have to build more than just one shop


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## geo (10 Apr 2006)

let's worry about the 1st on shall we
the others, if any, will comme as needed


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## GAP (19 Apr 2006)

> When the links came up, I jokingly sent one to my 23 year old son, telling him he could see MJP before any of us. He Applied (he's got oodles of restaurant experience with Canad Inns)



Well, he is now officially "walking on water". They phoned him yesterday re: interview.  Now, if we can just get him peeled off the ceiling.... ;D


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## geo (19 Apr 2006)

word is that there were some 100+ applications for the 15 odd positions......


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## GAP (21 Apr 2006)

> When the links came up, I jokingly sent one to my 23 year old son, telling him he could see MJP before any of us. He Applied (he's got oodles of restaurant experience with Canad Inns)
> 
> Well, he is now officially "walking on water". They phoned him yesterday re: interview.  Now, if we can just get him peeled off the ceiling....


Dang, no sooner than I can get him peeled off the ceiling ;D, they give him a second interview and he gets accepted to go for training in Ont.  well, get out the ladder, peel him off again, go to next room, pump arm.Yes!!..he-he...getting them out of the nest before they grow pinfeathers...gotta love it!! ;D


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## military granny (21 Apr 2006)

GAP 
What a great opportunity for your son. I hope his training goes smoothly and I'm sure the men and women in KAF will have a million questions for him when he gets there i.e hockey play offs weather at home etc.


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## geo (21 Apr 2006)

Cadpat Tip jar? (JK)


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## Thorvald (21 Apr 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Cadpat Tip jar? (JK)



Why do I suspect that particular item will all of a sudden appear on Wheeler's/CPgear website within a few days....


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Apr 2006)

Good for your son, not only will it be a life-altering experience (in a good way) it will be worth mucho-bragging rights and great for use in subsequent job interviews.   


Maybe we can use these as a way to trap the AQ, leave Tim Horton cups lying outside the wire with: “You won a new pick up, please collect it at this grid reference” under the rim.


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## Franko (24 Apr 2006)

But Colin....what if someone picked it out of a garbage can, then someone else rolled up the rim?

Now what if village elders were involved?    ;D

Regards


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## NL_engineer (24 Apr 2006)

Thorvald said:
			
		

> Why do I suspect that particular item will all of a sudden appear on Wheeler's/CPgear website within a few days....



It will probably come out around the same time as the cadpat tie ;D


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## Nfld Sapper (24 Apr 2006)

Ssshhhh...... we just did trials on that last summer  ;D


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## Scott57 (25 Apr 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Dang, no sooner than I can get him peeled off the ceiling ;D, they give him a second interview and he gets accepted to go for training in Ont.  well, get out the ladder, peel him off again, go to next room, pump arm.Yes!!..he-he...getting them out of the nest before they grow pinfeathers...gotta love it!! ;D


 Good for you GAP. I experienced that same excitement (as a father) three years ago as I was getting ready to deploy to Bosnia. My son was hired by SNC/ PTI in 2003 and spent two full years in Kabul worling food services. He'd love to get back over there. I'd much rather see him join up but I think he worries about the pins in his ankle sustained in a previous accident. Anyway - you should be proud !.


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## geo (25 Apr 2006)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> It will probably come out around the same time as the cadpat tie ;D



I regret to inform you that someone did come out with Cadpat tie last year (picture can be provided)...... along with Cadpat Beret (again picture can be provided) (along with Dopey MP  who was wearing em for the pic)


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## painswessex (25 Apr 2006)

that dopey MP is someone I know personally.   I went threw my 3's with him then he went to the dark side along with half of my course.



[Edit made by Mod to remove Name of Individual}


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## geo (25 Apr 2006)

Ahh.... that explains it - he went to the dark side 
(his look appears to be a cross between Smug & embarassed)


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## NL_engineer (25 Apr 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> I regret to inform you that someone did come out with Cadpat tie last year (picture can be provided)...... along with Cadpat Beret (again picture can be provided) (along with Dopey MP  who was wearing em for the pic)



That's why I brought it up.  I thought that CPGear would have jumped right on it.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (1 May 2006)

So is this open yet? I was just listening to an interview with Michelle Wright who is going over to sing for the troops and she was thrilled when the interviewer told her there was a Timmies open there.


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## silentbutdeadly (1 May 2006)

awww no! i seen nothing  yet , but mind you i am only there a few days then out again , maybe its just a tease? :blotto:


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## geo (1 May 2006)

was watching a TV News interview on CBC (or was it CTV) about married couples in Kandahar.... they were sitting at a picnic table... with brown cups that looked a lot like Timmies.


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## GAP (1 May 2006)

Son just left for Kingston on Sunday for 2 wks training, then back for a couple of weeks before he goes over, if selected. So I don't imagine much will happen for a month


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## silentbutdeadly (1 May 2006)

Canada House has brown cups.


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## geo (1 May 2006)

Ah... mystery solved

Tks SBD


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## Korus (1 May 2006)

It was so nice to every once and a while have a shipment of Tim Hortons cups arrive and show up in Canada house. Even if it wasn't Timmies, it still had the psychological effect..  ;D


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## teltech (1 May 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Son just left for Kingston on Sunday for 2 wks training, then back for a couple of weeks before he goes over, if selected. So I don't imagine much will happen for a month


Ahh, that explains the wall to wall lineup for breakfast this morning. Never seen so many people in the WO's & Sgts mess at one time, even last summer. Well, at least it should be up and running by the time I FINALLY get to go there (after Dec?) ???


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## FormerHorseGuard (14 May 2006)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060503/afghanistan_tim_hortons_060513/20060513?hub=Canada

Training ends for Tim Hortons Kandahar hopefuls

Updated Sat. May. 13 2006 10:51 PM ET

CTV.ca News

It's hard to find a town in Canada missing a Tim Hortons outlet. Now the coffee chain is coming to Afghanistan, so troops can order morale-boosting double-doubles and cream-filled donuts.

Training for potential employees wraped up on Friday at Ontario's CFB Kingston. The announcement of who will get to work in one of the most dangerous places in the world will be made next week.

"We have given them all the tools that are necessary, from mine awareness to gas training in a gas hut," Gord Wells, of the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, told CTV News.

Forty-one selected workers will travel to the Kandahar airfield, where most of Canada's 2,300 troops in Afghanistan are stationed.

The airfield came under attack Saturday evening local time when explosions rocked the base. It was the fifth such attack troops have endured.

Despite the risks, those who hope to work at the base want to support the troops and bring them a little token from home.

"It feels really good to be doing something that's important for the troops," said Cynthia Horan of Penticton, B.C.

Her enthusiasm was shared by Nadine Charron of Petawa, Ont., who added she wants to go "for the experience."

But not everyone thought working at the remote outlet is a good idea.

"My youngest one is saying 'Go mom, go.' My oldest son is not so excited about it," said Kelly Taylor of CFB Gagetown.

Wells said selling coffee to Canada's troops is not just a way to help raise morale, but also another way to serve the country.

"Everyone can't be a soldier in Canada. This is their way to support Canada," he said.

About 70 people tried out for the job. They range in age between 20 and 55, but only 10 per cent have prior military experience.

Those chosen will be offered a six-month contract. Tim Hortons could start looking for another group of candidates around July.

The selected workers will also be competing against its American counterpart, when the outlet is expect to open in Canada's Kandahar base later this month.

Green Beans coffee serves U.S. troops stationed around the world, and is commonly referred to as "the military's version of Starbucks."

With a report by CTV's Robert Fife


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## GAP (14 May 2006)

Yeah, my son doesn't find out until Monday/Tuesday, and he's on pins & needles. Loved the training session, now, just wants to be selected.


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## Armymedic (14 May 2006)

Not to take away anything from the people who are waiting to find out if they are going (actually, good on you if your chosen, and good luck when you go).

But,

Where the %@$ is the writer of the article from? Hamilton, maybe?



> It's hard to find a town in Canada missing a Tim Horton's outlet.



I call BS. How many TH outlets do you see in the smaller towns, esp in the prairies? None. Yet another great Canadian myth, along with our dominance of hockey, and our love of peacekeeping.

Hope the supplies doesn't slow mail delivery any more then it already is.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41424.0/all.html


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## GAP (14 May 2006)

You are right, there aren't many in small towns out west. Simply put...they are expensive franchisees and if you are only going to be competing against a local cafe that everybody has gone to for 20+ years, they are not feasible. They need high volume, high turnover of customers..


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## Chags (14 May 2006)

Everyone will be happy to know..  that Wainwright is finally getting their Tim Horton's.. 

Should be completed this fall (just before the Walmart is ready)


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## Scoobie Newbie (14 May 2006)

I think one of the members brothers on this board is going over.


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## Fusilier (15 May 2006)

Tim Hortens, yippee - that's great for those troops here that are in the main camp (Kandahar Airfield) but for the 600 plus members of the Battle Group and the PRT in Camp Nathan Smith - ha!  They might as well be in one of those small towns in the Prairies for what good it will do them.  Thanks Tims for the effort, too bad the fighting troops won't get to take advantage of it, but that's their lot in life huh.  One more place for the high priced help to lounge around......don't get me started on the Can Con show...


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## Booked_Spice (15 May 2006)

Ha Ha Fusilier

My hubby finally called from Sat. phone. He is kind of dissapointed cause he will miss Timmies and the show. He will be outside the wire for rest of his tour. He said the only thing he really wants is a real shower and not with water bottles...


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## Fusilier (15 May 2006)

Hey Booked_Spice ! Glad the SAT phones are working!  Don't worry we're working on some options to get some goodies out to the boys - can't do anything about the showers though.  

Bye the way, I do appreciate the work that the Timmies people and CFPSA are doing - it's the nature of the combat arms to be in the crappy places without all the ammenities - but hey, we wouldn't be real soldiers if we weren't *&@^@^ about something!


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## Booked_Spice (15 May 2006)

So true...

But I know this is not the topic of the thread...

But the Sat. phones work to an extent but it was really hard hearing him and he kept saying I was screaming at him.. But didn't really matter as I got to hear his voice..

Take care


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## poko (15 May 2006)

Any body know what the price of the coffee will be similar to canada or more expensive? I would thing a bit more then canada got a get all those coffee bean to afganistan.


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## Spartan (15 May 2006)

I am wondering the legalities of them going through a modified basic training - does that mean that the CF can now claim them to be new recruits - and utilize them back into a unit?


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## camochick (15 May 2006)

HAHA booked spice. The water bottle shower. Mine finally got a shower but he will be back out in the crap soon enough. He probably ate burger king out of all the food by now. They are building showers for them or atleast thats what I hear. Good for timmies for going in there, I know my husband wont be enjoying it, but its still a good thing. Hang in there booked, soon enough they will be home with their stinky kit to clutter up the house hehe.  >


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## Booked_Spice (16 May 2006)

Stinky...

I just hope this time he showers and changes before I PICK him up.. LOL.. Less then 3 months to go.. and I don't have to go sexually deprived for FREEDOM...  > Cause camo your starting to look good.. maybe I should jump the fence.


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## Fusilier (16 May 2006)

Since we use US funds over here and Green Beans charge about $2.50 US, I would imagine Timmies needs to compete.  Hope they have lots of cold stuff, it's hot enough here.


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## gaspasser (16 May 2006)

Hi to all our Troops "Overthere",  Your Timmies is on it's way!  I just fueled the big bird that's bringing it. It's always a good thing to be a part of somthing good that supports our guys.  Good Luck to all and Enjoy your double-doubles. PS, I hope the drive thru is quicker than here.   _for this, we fight!_


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## Fusilier (17 May 2006)

Hello everyone in Canada!  Well I don't know about drive thru, might be difficult getting a LAV through.  As far as I know the "grand opening" is at the end of the month.  Our counterparts from other nations are looking forward to it too - that's how Canadian's can conquer the world - install a Timmies, create peace over coffee!  Think it might work on the Taliban?

CANCON show tonight, nice surprise last night, the entertainers made an impromtu stop to the Coy lines to play for the troops of TF ORION.  Julian Austin did his Red and White song, Michelle Wright, Amanda Stott, The Wilkinsons, Diane Chase, Maritza and Richard Wood; some awesome Canadian talent - just like a good ole' fashioned kitchen party, without the beer.  Some of the troops who were heading out the wire early this morning and will miss the official showe, got their own private show.  Nice to see, was a great little show.

Canada Rocks!


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## Booked_Spice (17 May 2006)

That was awesome Fusilier...

Hope hubby was one of them... Take care


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## GAP (12 Jun 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/06/12/tim-hortons-kandahar.html

Tim Hortons touches down in Kandahar
Last Updated Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:13:43 EDT
CBC News 
Canadian soldiers will soon be able to order that large double-double they've been longing for. An aircraft carrying a Tim Hortons trailer landed in Afghanistan Monday and will open its doors on Canada Day.

  
A Tim Hortons trailer arrived in Kandahar on Monday and will be open to troops come Canada Day. (CBC)  
Troops had lobbied for the coffee chain's presence to Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier, who passed the message on to the company.

The Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, the morale and welfare arm of the Canadian Forces, will help operate the trailer, which will contain most of the selections of a typical outlet.

The group organizes many events for soldiers and staff, including movie and Stanley Cup hockey nights.

Approximately 50 people — including some military wives — have been training at CFB Kingston to work at the new Tim Hortons. Training was a little more intense than usual, as staff had to learn safety precautions relating to the dangerous environment in addition to the coffee chain's requirements for food and beverage preparation and customer service.

Currently 2,300 Canadians are serving in southern Afghanistan


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## Hot Lips (12 Jun 2006)

I'm ready for a tour now...lol
Nice to see a taste of home over there...I would certainly appreciate it and I am sure the troops there will too...
And it will open on Canada Day how fitting.

HL


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## TMM (12 Jun 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Approximately 50 people...Currently 2,300 Canadians are serving in southern Afghanistan



Is it just me or does 50 staff for 2300 clients seem like a heckuva lot?


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## GAP (12 Jun 2006)

In an effort to give true value, it will take two people to carry out the dozen donuts to the LAVIII.  ;D


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## vonGarvin (12 Jun 2006)

TMM said:
			
		

> Is it just me or does 50 staff for 2300 clients seem like a heckuva lot?


It's just you.  
10% on HLTA
3 (4?) shifts daily.
Assume 3 managers (not front service types)
So, 42 people at any given time, divided by say 3 = 14 on at any time.  
14 for 2300 is about right?


----------



## Franko (12 Jun 2006)

Not only that but a large portion of the force lives outside the wire doing the dirty work.

They aren't going in everyday just to get their fix. That should drop your numbers by a bit    

Regards


----------



## armyvern (12 Jun 2006)

Perhaps they'll do a split-shift.
1/2 at work. 1/2 on days off. 

Double the shift-managers to 6
Add 2 "straight-day" Store Managers (for liaising with Corporate Central/ordering stock)
leaves 42 counter staff
1/2 on days off = 21 counter staff per 24 hour period
Assume 3 shifts = 7 workers per shift.
Assume 2 "bakers/decorators/dishwashers/garbage picker-uppers (??)"
= 5 pers left to work the counter per 8 hour shift (1 of which is the shift-manager).

Seems about right and pretty much on par with your local Timmie's outlets. I'm quite sure it won't be just the Canadians visiting them either as the customer base at their location is much higher than 2400 total. What Canuks over there haven't yet visited the American Burger King for a taste of something different?

HorM...that'll be an Extra Large Black please!! No need to double cup.


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## geo (12 Jun 2006)

Wonder if they'll have a drive thru window that's LAV / Cougar / Bison / 10 ton high... 
(awright - where's that suggestion box)
(can anyone file an unsatisfactory condition report - and where would I have to file one about the average height of Timmy staff?)


----------



## TMM (12 Jun 2006)

And I thought I was a number crunching geek 

I think in the interest of making this CF Timmies as efficient as possible, I must take the day off tomorrow to sit in Hortons' studying the staff/client ratio.

If I bring the boss a double double I might get away with it!


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## HItorMiss (12 Jun 2006)

Tell you what Vern, I owe you more then one but should we cross path's in the sandbox and I got time for a coffee, they are on me.

You'll be bale to find by the Oakley's and of course how darn good I'll be looking while standing in line  8)


----------



## armyvern (12 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Tell you what Vern, I owe you more then one but should we cross path's in the sandbox and I got *time for a coffee*, they are on me.
> 
> You'll be bale to find by the Oakley's and of course how darn good I'll be looking while standing in line  8)



You *"always got time for Tim Hortons!!" *  8)


----------



## geo (12 Jun 2006)

hehe............

Keep telling my boss that while we go over to Timmy's for some java, we get our best ideas worked out


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## geo (13 Jun 2006)

water flowed uphill, the sun rose in the east and the first part of the Tim Horton's complex arrived Monday morning.  The second trailer is due in next week, with the frozen dough and coffee and such the week after that.  If all goes well, the first cup gets poured Canada Day.  I have a feeling that the competition is going to go broke. Well, their prices are, shall we say, profitable for them and, frankly, their coffee isn't all that good.


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## TMM (13 Jun 2006)

Will the prices be the same as back home? I'd hate to see the squaddies gouged.


----------



## Gunner (13 Jun 2006)

TMM said:
			
		

> Will the prices be the same as back home? I'd hate to see the squaddies gouged.



I have no doubt they have gone to all of this effort solely to gouge the soldier overseas.   :


----------



## Infanteer (13 Jun 2006)

I see the tail only gets larger....


----------



## TMM (13 Jun 2006)

That's not quite what I meant. I know that some locations(not just Hortons' but other chains) charge extra at some locations.


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## Gunner (14 Jun 2006)

I'm sure the prices will be comparable unless PSP gets their mitts into the till!


----------



## C/10 (14 Jun 2006)

Chags said:
			
		

> Everyone will be happy to know..  that Wainwright is finally getting their Tim Horton's..
> 
> Should be completed this fall (just before the Walmart is ready)



Good it will make Wainwright a little more bearable .... but not that much  ;D


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## GAP (15 Jun 2006)

Talking to my son last night (did training in Kingston for going over to Timmie's)...he said the projected price was  $1.50 small, $2.00 large ;D


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## Hot Lips (15 Jun 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Talking to my son last night (did training in Kingston for going over to Timmie's)...he said the projected price was  $1.50 small, $2.00 large ;D


Well worth it...a taste of home delivered to you in A-stan...priceless  

Oh HoM I take mine Large Double Cream Double Twin Double cupped if you are buying...Vern you wouldn't mind the company would you  

HL


----------



## geo (15 Jun 2006)

From my bud in KAF.......

The second Timmy's trailer is due in today, apparently.  NDHQ has made a commitment that, come hell or high water, Tim Horton's Kandahar will open Canada Day. That will blend in well with the ceremonies pretty well, all things considered.  Maintenance of morale is pretty important.


----------



## sgtdixon (16 Jun 2006)

Now if we could just get the boys something more than a revelead ankle for a "spirtual uplift"


----------



## Trooper Hale (16 Jun 2006)

I am but a poor foreign visitor to the shores of your grand country. But I've never seen coffee dependance like i've seen in Petawawa! 2130 and the line is still MASSIVE at the in town Tims! I mean, its not just for the coffee and donuts that they go (although the donuts are pretty bloody good! I dont drink coffee and Canadian tea is blasphamy) its to hang out at Tim Hortons, even if the chain is American what could be more Canadian then a guy who lost control of his car because he was drunk, crashed into someone else and killed the both of them, only to have a Coffee shop named after him? Thats pure gold! 
Without Tim Hortons the CF would cease to function as a fighting force. It'd just be a bunch of people with the shakes because of caffeine withdrawl! Even if it is American i reckon we could do without that!
Hales


----------



## Franko (16 Jun 2006)

Ummmm.....it was a Canadian buisness    

It just got bought off by the Yanks.    

Regards


----------



## TMM (16 Jun 2006)

Trooper Hale said:
			
		

> even if the chain is American what could be more Canadian then a guy who lost control of his car because he was drunk, crashed into someone else and killed the both of them, only to have a Coffee shop named after him? Thats pure gold!



My fair foreign visitor, the coffe shop was not named after Horton died. He opened up the first one in 1964, in Hamilton, Ontario. He had a few locations at the time of his death.

I too am a tea snob and Horton's steeped tea is pretty darn good. hey, at least we have something other than Lipton in the stores!

Anyone know if KAF Tim's will accept gift certificates? Might be a nice thing to throw into those "any soldier" envelopes!


----------



## Pea (16 Jun 2006)

TMM said:
			
		

> Anyone know if KAF Tim's will accept gift certificates? Might be a nice thing to throw into those "any soldier" envelopes!



That is a very good question! Could be a very neat idea.


----------



## GAP (16 Jun 2006)

Might be a good advertising campaign for Tim Hortons here in Canada.. Buy a soldier a Gift Certificate for a Timmies in Knadahar...good idea ;D


----------



## TMM (16 Jun 2006)

Maybe even have special squaddie only certs and have a deal - buy a book of 5 for them, get a free coffee or doughnut for you.

Anyone know who to contact at CF or Horton's about that?


----------



## GAP (16 Jun 2006)

I should think that Tim Hortons, the main seller, would have to coordinate with the CF support agency that is actually running it to ensure they are credited. Can't see why not...$$ is $$


----------



## GAP (16 Jun 2006)

Sent to Tim Hortons > customer_service@timhortons.com <



> I am a member of Army.ca. The forum members, being mostly CF and other interested personnel have been following the opening of a Tim Hortons in Kandahar closely.
> 
> One suggestion that came up was that Tim Hortons in Canada offer gift certificates that can be sent over by friends, family or anyone wanting to support the CF in Afghanistan....
> 
> ...



Can't hurt


----------



## military granny (16 Jun 2006)

Great idea guys and gals

I hope Timmies gets back to you soon. It would be a great thing to add to the adopt a soldier campaign boxes.


----------



## Pea (16 Jun 2006)

Very well done GAP! It is a great idea, and definitely can't hurt to bring it up to them.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Jun 2006)

+1 to this idea.  Instead of sending over packets of Timmies, loved ones, or even strangers, could buy a soldier a cup of coffee.  Walk into Tims, pay the money, Tims sends the message electronically (eg: email) to Tims (forward) and then somehow, that message is sent to Soldier Bloggins of "X" company of unit "Y".  They print off a certificate, deliver it to said soldier, who can then redeem it for a cuppa Joe (Cuppa Tim?).  If you send it to "Any soldier, Task Force Orion", then Tims (or PSP) could allocate to the units on whatever basis they decide.  Heck, I got letters from the "military granny network" in Newfoundland, and replied.  That was nice.

This is a BANG ON Idea!  Great for Tims, Great for morale.

And let's not forget that "Maintenance of Morale" is a fundamental (principle?) of war.


Garvin out

PS: I could never figure out a principle from a fundamental!!!!!


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## military granny (16 Jun 2006)

Von Garvin 
  "the military granny network"  want to fill me in???  Was it letters from the kids?


----------



## TMM (16 Jun 2006)

The more people email the better! Here's my message:

I am glad to see Tim Hortons'  will be opening at Kandahar Air Force on Canada Day. I understand that this took a lot of work and am glad that our troops will have a taste of home. That said, I and other Canadians do not have the resources to send over more Tim Trailers. However, I would like to be able to send Tim Hortons gift certificates to the troops. Would these be accepted at the Kandahar location?

In this thread at army.ca I suggested maybe even having special certificates for use only in Kandahar, perhaps a promotion buy $5.00 get a free coffee.

Regards


----------



## Hot Lips (16 Jun 2006)

vonGarvin said:
			
		

> +1 to this idea.  Instead of sending over packets of Timmies, loved ones, or even strangers, could buy a soldier a cup of coffee.  Walk into Tims, pay the money, Tims sends the message electronically (eg: email) to Tims (forward) and then somehow, that message is sent to Soldier Bloggins of "X" company of unit "Y".  They print off a certificate, deliver it to said soldier, who can then redeem it for a cuppa Joe (Cuppa Tim?).  If you send it to "Any soldier, Task Force Orion", then Tims (or PSP) could allocate to the units on whatever basis they decide.  Heck, I got letters from the "military granny network" in Newfoundland, and replied.  That was nice.
> 
> This is a BANG ON Idea!  Great for Tims, Great for morale.
> 
> ...


 Love the idea...let me know when it starts up...I would certainly support that and know of a number of people who would

HL


----------



## GAP (16 Jun 2006)

> Posted on: Today at 17:59:21Posted by: TMM
> Insert Quote
> The more people email the better! Here's my message:
> 
> ...



The more the merrier....They won't pay much attention to just little ol' me, but to you all....heck, a done deal!!! ;D


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## vonGarvin (16 Jun 2006)

military granny said:
			
		

> Von Garvin
> "the military granny network"  want to fill me in???  Was it letters from the kids?


Hi "Military Granny". I only used that term because of your handle on here.  I can't remember what they were referred to in the paper, but recently one of them received an award from the CDS.  It was letters from an elderly lady living in Newfoundland.  She would write postcards, addressed to "Any Soldier, TF Kabul, Op ATHENA, Afghanistan".  And I was there for less than two months (June 2003) as the Camp there was being built.  
I did get letters from "the kids" in some school in Manitoba (I believe) when I was in Haiti. I wrote back to them as well.  Just to say thanks.  It was a morale booster!


----------



## geo (16 Jun 2006)

each one of you / us should approach our local timmy's and have a talk to their manager.
email the PSP types

Great concept though


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## COBRA-6 (17 Jun 2006)

I know someone involved in this at PSP, I'll pass along the idea, sounds like a winner to me!


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## TMM (17 Jun 2006)

Mike, stupid civi question when you leave the bar on Elgin Street  - what is PSP?


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## COBRA-6 (17 Jun 2006)

http://www.cfpsa.com/


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## GAP (18 Jun 2006)

Just received from Tim Horton Head Office



> I would like to thank you for contacting us at our Head Office in Oakville,
> Ontario.  We appreciate your interest in our Company.
> 
> At Tim Hortons we strive to achieve customer satisfaction through friendly
> ...


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (18 Jun 2006)

Now to get Don to mention that on Coach's Corner.


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## GAP (18 Jun 2006)

Send him an email via CBC as soon as possible so he can mention it Monday night.


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## Hot Lips (18 Jun 2006)

SO what I hear you saying...is we purchase gift certificates and send them off? 
So would that include sending some to like say "the any soldier" individuals as well, I guess so...
Will wait for further instructions...

HL


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## GAP (18 Jun 2006)

I replyed to the email regarding prices, but I think I already know the answer....the gift certificate is for $xx.xx. Whatever the price of the coffee is where you are buying it, just comes out of the certificate. That kinda takes care of the problem of a disparity of prices. 

I didn't think to ask about the "any soldier...any where". The email address is there, might I suggest you query them?


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## military granny (18 Jun 2006)

HL I would imagine it would be OK to send them to "any soldier" if they have them they can use them.


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## Hot Lips (18 Jun 2006)

Well wonderful Granny...I think that would be a nice surprise for these soldiers that everyone has mentioned really don't receive much/anything from home

HL


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## military granny (18 Jun 2006)

HL 
I know a bunch of boys going over very soon and granny Santa now has one more item to put in their stockings


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## Red 6 (18 Jun 2006)

I looked on Tim Horton's web site today. They have outlets in Ohio and Kentucky, but none in Oregon or Washington! What's wrong with this picture? Here on the left coast, we think good coffee is like oxygen; a God-given right. Heck, you can even find gourmet coffee in 7-11. That's it! I'm packin' up and headin' south.... (or is it north?) ???


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## GAP (19 Jun 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> I replyed to the email regarding prices, but I think I already know the answer....the gift certificate is for $xx.xx. Whatever the price of the coffee is where you are buying it, just comes out of the certificate. That kinda takes care of the problem of a disparity of prices.
> 
> I didn't think to ask about the "any soldier...any where". The email address is there, might I suggest you query them?



here is the answer from Tim Hortons I got today

I would like to thank you for contacting us at our Head Office in Oakville,
Ontario.  We appreciate your interest in our Company.

At Tim Hortons we strive to achieve customer satisfaction through friendly
and efficient service, high quality products and cleanliness in our stores.
Please note that the gift certificates are the same Gift Certificates as
you would use in our stores.  They are not exactly the same, but can be
used in Kandahar.

Thank you again for contacting us. If you have any future questions or
comments, please do not hesitate to contact us toll-free at 1 888 601 1616.

We look forward to serving you again in the near future!


Sincerely,




Deanna
Operation Services
The TDL Group Corp.

email address:   deanna@timhortons.com


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## military granny (19 Jun 2006)

Gap

Now she has me confused. They are the same but not the same????


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## GAP (19 Jun 2006)

Yeah, you're right, I didn't see that....don't know. 

send her an email as will I, asking her to explain difference.


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## GAP (19 Jun 2006)

I sent this back to Tim Hortons



> you have now totally confused me.
> 
> "Please note that the gift certificates are the same Gift Certificates as
> you would use in our stores.  They are not exactly the same, but can be used
> ...


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## military granny (19 Jun 2006)

Gap 
I also just sent her a very nice letter asking what the difference in the GC was and if they had to be asked for specifically.


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## GAP (19 Jun 2006)

I just talked on the phone to Deanna at Tim Hortons. The points covered are:

1. Requests regarding a special marketing program re: Tim Hortons in Kandahar has been forwarded from the Customer Service Department to their Marketing Department...no word yet what they are going to do.

2. At present there is no plan for special Gift Certificates for Kandahar.

 Because no coins are allowed over there for use, just MPC, the gift certificates you buy here will be eligible to be used there. Their prices in Kandahar reflect the higher cost of operation and the fact that all transactions are done using US Military Payment Certificates as the general currency.

 Because of this, giving pennies out in change is not feasible, nor is converting to Canadian money. In the conversation I got the impression the increased prices already include the exchange, so it will not be an issue.


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## TMM (19 Jun 2006)

Poor Deanna! We're flooding the woman with requests! Here's the reply I received:

_I would like to thank you for contacting us at our Head Office in Oakville,
Ontario.  We appreciate your interest in our Company.

At Tim Hortons we strive to achieve customer satisfaction through friendly
and efficient service, high quality products and cleanliness in our stores.
Please note that soldier will be able to use Tim Hortons Gift Certificates
in Kandanhar. *  I have forwarded a copy of your suggestion on to our
Marketing Department for their review and consideration.*_


----------



## GerryCan (19 Jun 2006)

C/10 said:
			
		

> Good it will make Wainwright a little more bearable .... but not that much  ;D



Wainright should have had it long before Kandahar, I feel for you guys posted out there.


----------



## Gunnar (19 Jun 2006)

Based on what someone from out west told me....Tim Ho's is largely an Ontario cult...apparently out west there is another chain, whose name I forget, that is more popular.

Still, tastes are likely to vary as much as provincial cultures and even accents...so maybe we need to bring the good word to Vancouver.


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## Franko (19 Jun 2006)

I got about $4.00 in pogs up for sale....

Bidding starts at $20 CDN    ;D

Regards


----------



## The Bread Guy (19 Jun 2006)

Got a voice mail from Deanna yesterday (Sunday) saying the same thing - gift certificates from here or USA are good to use in K'Har outlet.


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## Gunner (19 Jun 2006)

> Based on what someone from out west told me....Tim Ho's is largely an Ontario cult...apparently out west there is another chain, whose name I forget, that is more popular.



If by West, you mean BC, you may be right.  In Alberta, Timmies rules!


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## TMM (19 Jun 2006)

Who needs Tim Ho in Vancouver when you've got The Blue Parrot? ;D I love that place, and Murchies(more tea than coffee though)


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## The Bread Guy (23 Jun 2006)

Seems it's getting closer....

 Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=d658f231-0392-4ca4-8933-dd7f58c2ce45&k=75888

*When it's time to relax, troops can get a Tim's fix ...  * 
Matthew Fisher, The Ottawa Citizen, June 23, 2006 

''KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - A pair of Illyushin-76 aircraft landed with an unlikely cargo of precious foodstuffs at one of the world's busiest military airfields early yesterday.

Stuffed inside four refrigerated sea containers in the bellies of the huge Soviet-era transport aircraft were tonnes of dough chilled to exactly -10 C. The first batch of batter for Tim Hortons doughnuts and bagels had finally arrived at this tiny Canadian outpost at Kandahar Airfield after a 10,000-kilometre over the North Pole from the land of the "double-double."

A team of six startup experts from Tim Hortons in Canada arrives at this dusty military outpost this weekend to help train a team of 15 Canadians hired by the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency to run the franchise.

The first coffee has already been test brewed in Tim's special coffee makers. If all goes according to plan, the first doughnuts will be cooked next week.

A gala ribbon-cutting ceremony is planned for Canada Day with Brig.-Gen. David Fraser of Edmonton presiding.

Many of the 2,300 Canadians who are not on frontline combat duty or sentry duty that day are expected to attend.

For several days, Canadian troops have been eyeing the Tim Hortons kiosk, set up in a trailer on the base boardwalk alongside such U.S. fast food giants as Burger King, Pizza Hut and Subway.

"It's going to be a taste of Canada," said Warrant Officer Tim Turner of Edmonton. "It's what we have been talking about all the time."

Cpl. Jarrit Turnell of Edmonton joked that it would not only be "a great morale boost" for the soldiers, the officers would always know where to find their troops -- at the doughnut shop.

The plan is for Tim's to be open from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. The menu offered in the Afghan desert will be somewhat restricted -- coffee, iced cappuccino, bagels, muffins and seven kinds of doughnuts, but no chili, soup or sandwiches. Prices will be about the same as in Canada.

"Afghanistan is not downtown Halifax or Montreal, so we have had to deal with some very special issues to get to this point," said Frank Cleyson, manager of the Canadian Forces Personal Support Agency in Kandahar, which is Tim's franchise holder.

"Of course, it is a theatre of war here, with all that that involves. There was also the question of how we could get refrigerated (shipping containers) into an airplane. Because Tim Hortons puts a lot of emphasis on quality control, another big concern has been how reliably can refrigeration work when it is 50C or 60C."

Canada is in Afghanistan until at least the spring of 2009. When the operation here ends, the franchise will move on to wherever Canadian troops are next deployed.''


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## Jarnhamar (23 Jun 2006)

The line up at the tim hortons on CFB petawawa is retarded.  Starts at the door the last few times I've visited.  I can't even imagine what the line up is going to look like in KAF.


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## GAP (23 Jun 2006)

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/world/story/3562792p-4116383c.html

Rolling up the rim in Afghanistan
Tim Hortons opening at Kandahar airport 

Fri Jun 23 2006

By Matthew Fisher

Matthew Fisher / CanWest news service
Warrant Officer Tim Turner looks forward to coffee and a toasted bagel in Kandahar.    


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A pair of Illyushin-76 aircraft landed with an unlikely cargo of precious foodstuffs at one of the world's busiest military airfields early yesterday. 
Stuffed inside four refrigerated sea containers in the bellies of the huge Soviet-era transport aircraft were tonnes of dough chilled to exactly --10 C. The first batch of batter for Tim Hortons donuts and bagels had finally arrived at this tiny Canadian outpost at Kandahar Airfield after a 10,000-kilometre over the North Pole flight from the land of the "double-double." 

A team of six startup experts from Tim Hortons in Canada arrives at this dusty military outpost this weekend to help train a team of 15 Canadians especially hired by the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency to run the franchise. 

The first coffee has already been test brewed in Tim's special coffee machines. If all goes according to plan, the first donuts should be cooked early next week. 

A gala ribbon-cutting ceremony is planned for Canada Day with Brig.-Gen. David Fraser of Edmonton presiding. Many of the 2,300 Canadians who are not out on frontline combat duty or sentry duty that day are expected to attend. 

For several days, Canadian troops have been eyeing the Tim Hortons kiosk, set up on in a trailer on the base boardwalk alongside such U.S. fast food giants as Burger King, Pizza Hut and Subway.  
"It's going to be a taste of Canada," said Warrant Officer Tim Turner of Edmonton. "It's what we have been talking about all the time." 

Cpl. Jarrit Turnell of Edmonton joked that it would not only be "a great morale boost for the boys. Now the OC's will always know where to find us." 

The plan is for Tim's to be open from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. The menu offered in the Afghan desert will be somewhat restricted -- coffee, iced cappucino, bagels, muffins and seven kinds of donuts, but no chili, soup or sandwiches. 

-- CanWest News Service


----------



## TMM (23 Jun 2006)

I hope they sent 2 ice cap machines! I'd hate to be behind the soldier who hears "ummm, I'm really sorry but the machine is broken" ;D


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## military granny (23 Jun 2006)

TMM i would hate to be the one saying it.   :rofl:


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## boots (24 Jun 2006)

I'm sad that the front line combat troops won't be able to have this with the rest, but I'm glad it's going there. I hope it's really well protected because it would make a great target for an attack of some kind by the insurgents... think of the loss of morale that might happen if they blew up Tim Hortons.

In Lethbridge, Alberta, we have at least three locations. What's the other franchise that is popular "out west"? It might be a BC thing. I don't know which one you might be talking about.


----------



## enfield (25 Jun 2006)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I see the tail only gets larger....


+1
While I agree with efforts to reduce the hardship of serving in A'stan, I'm not sure how this is a Force Multiplier... Its not like there isn't already coffee and donuts there.


----------



## beach_bum (25 Jun 2006)

I know that in Vancouver there is a Starbucks on every other corner.  Blech!  Burnt coffee!  However, happily over the last couple of years there have been Timmies sprouting up all over the place here.  One just opened up down the road from the base here.  Yay!


----------



## scm77 (25 Jun 2006)

The article above said they came on a Illyushin-76, but this picture (and caption) show they came on a USAF C-17.

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_e.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=12561&site=combatcamera


----------



## Armymedic (25 Jun 2006)

well golly, Scotty. You are correct.

Just another reason for us to get a few of those wonderful C-17s.


----------



## Good2Golf (25 Jun 2006)

Enfield said:
			
		

> +1
> While I agree with efforts to reduce the hardship of serving in A'stan, I'm not sure how this is a Force Multiplier... Its not like there isn't already coffee and donuts there.




Putting this in perspective, it's not like the manning is coming from the TF, so it's not a force divider, either.  Coffee already, sure...KBR swill or Green Beans at $2.50-3.00...  Just look around, huge PX, BurgerKing, Subway...Timmies is just another sign that things may be settling in for the long haul.  I'm waiting to see how long it takes to get a Chapters/Indigo...  ;D


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## Hot Lips (25 Jun 2006)

The count down is on...I wonder what they did with the test pots of coffee  :
Think there was any sampling going on  

HL


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## gaspasser (25 Jun 2006)

I'd like to apologize to our guys for saying that the Tim's oulets were on their way about three weeks ago.  I didn't notice them coming back off the c-17 becuase they wouldn't fit.  I think they went by boat.  I did however see the reefers with the supplies go on an Antanow sometime last week.  I also hope that Timmies and PSP arene't ripping off the troops like their southern counterparts.  Come home safe, troops.


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## geo (26 Jun 2006)

per an article last week.......... Timmy trailers went via C17. There was an apparent problem with the loading equipment we proposed to use out of Trenton.  The trailers were trucked down to NJ or some other US airbase where they were loaded onto C17s for the trip to KAF.

Question.... Considering we're buying the darned C17s.... is there some special loading equipment that we MUST have......before we go and break the kit we don't yave yet????

Paint me - Concerned!


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## Milhouser911 (27 Jun 2006)

cuteboots said:
			
		

> In Lethbridge, Alberta, we have at least three locations. What's the other franchise that is popular "out west"? It might be a BC thing. I don't know which one you might be talking about.



For clarification, there are 6 Timmy's in Lethbridge, where there were 3 a year ago.


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## military granny (29 Jun 2006)

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- Canadian troops in Afghanistan are happily enjoying a little taste of home. 

Tim Hortons finally opened the doors of its kiosk on the desolate coalition base here Thursday, and when word spread, soldiers were soon marching double-time for double-doubles.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060607/afghanistan_template_060610/20060629?hub=World


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## Franko (29 Jun 2006)

Well....Green Bean may be in for some competition.

Mind you the Chai Latte is pretty good....but can't beat the Double Double.

Regards


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (29 Jun 2006)

2Bravo had his first "double double" on the boardwalk yesterday and he said it was very good.  Very, very good.


----------



## George Wallace (29 Jun 2006)

On the news I noticed that one customer handed over two dollars American.....I hope that wasn't the cost of a Double Double.  (Keeping in mind our tendency to round things off to the nearest buck when in the field/on Deployment.)


----------



## military granny (29 Jun 2006)

2Bravo  I'm glad you enjoyed your first d d for awhile. I hope the rest of the guys and gals have a chance to get a few before they are on their way home


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (29 Jun 2006)

military granny,

Based on the crowd forming I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one!  We even hadTimbits.  I guess the PRT and Kabul guys are left out, though.

George

A large is 1.50 USD, which ain't bad!


----------



## TMM (29 Jun 2006)

Hey that's cheaper than at Pearson Airport!

2B, let the troops know that it is beyond well deserved!


----------



## military granny (29 Jun 2006)

Yes 2Bravo the PRT boys are out in the cold. The son wasn't too impressed but will fill up on Iced Caps  before he catches his plane out


----------



## reccecrewman (29 Jun 2006)

I can see a scenario like this playing out now;

"Sergeant Major! Where the h*** is my Squadron?"  "Sir!, they're all at HSS, it seems they were drinking 10 double doubles a day and they completely dehydrated themselves"  ;D

Glad to see a piece of Canadiana has reached Kandahar for our troops.

Regards


----------



## Franko (30 Jun 2006)

Don't worry Granny....the PRT visit KAF on a regular basis, and will no doubt get plenty of Tims     

Regards


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## military granny (30 Jun 2006)

Recce
I don't worry too much I must have sent $400. worth of beef jerky in the last four months so the boy isn't doing with out much. And the Ice caps will taste so much better while sitting on a plane.


----------



## Franko (30 Jun 2006)

:rofl:

No doubt.....I know the frappachinos or whatever they are called at Green Bean tasted great after 5 months of eating sand.

Regards


----------



## GAP (14 Jul 2006)

This just in !!

Kandahar Tim Horton's fresh out of doughnuts
Updated Fri. Jul. 14 2006 9:14 AM ET  Canadian Press
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060714/afghanistan_hortons_060714/20060714?hub=TopStories

Canada's soldiers in Kandahar say they can live with the oppressive heat, dust and exhaustion of fighting Taliban. 

But they draw the line when they lose their doughnuts. 

The Tim Horton's restaurant that opened at the Kandahar Air Field before Canada Day ran out of doughnuts on Thursday. 

By Friday, the Timbits were gone, too. 
More on Link


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## Korus (14 Jul 2006)

> Mind you the Chai Latte is pretty good....but can't beat the Double Double.



I second that.. those were pretty good, but still didn't compare to those timmies double doubles they had waiting for us when we got off the plane in Edmonton..
Now I find myself working civvie side as an electrical engineer drinking office coffee.. blech..

And Granny, everyone in southern Afghanistan is jealous of the Kandahar PRT guys anyways.. that's where the best food is!


----------



## military granny (14 Jul 2006)

Folks there is a gent that writes poems on the "write to the troops" site this is one og his latest

Timothy - 7/8/2006 [03:19]
Windsor, Ontario,, Canada
I received another package today
but failed to recognize the name
from a town outside of Calgary
not knowing, I opened just the same

Inside a card from Ms Becker's class
was signed by every boy and girl
all wished me luck and gave a thanks
but what they added gave me a twirl

Someone went and visited Timmie's
and added some coupons for coffee
now I sit and write them back
drinking a morning cup for free

Whoever knew a cup of brew
could restore my faith anew
I ended: Thank you!


----------



## MikeL (14 Jul 2006)

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/07/14/1684241-cp.html

Troops mourn loss of doughnuts

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - Canada's soldiers in Kandahar say they can live with the oppressive heat, dust and exhaustion of fighting Taliban. 

But they draw the line when they lose their doughnuts. The Tim Horton's restaurant that opened at the Kandahar Air Field before Canada Day ran out of doughnuts on Thursday. By Friday, the Timbits were gone, too. Staff at the "Timmies trailer," as it has become known, say they're hoping for a fresh batch of supplies soon, but were unable to say when they'd once again be making the soft, sweet treats. 

Getting doughnuts into the base takes a back seat to the military's number one priority - armaments and the basic necessities of life for the troops.


----------



## COBRA-6 (15 Jul 2006)

Just like we predicted!  :

Read the first page of this thread...


----------



## Armymedic (15 Jul 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Sorry troops, my feel of it is that there is no good reason to have a Tim's in Theater with us. Just because we can...nope. Will it make our QOL any better over there...nope. Will it cause more problems then its worth...yep.
> 
> We already have the coffee. They can ship over cups, and we have in the past. You will not be able to ship the Tims cream all the way across the pond. And trust me, our soldiers are not dying over there from lack of food, so no need for donuts.
> 
> The logistics of this is gigantic. Sure it would be great to have a trailer in KAF, but what good if its only open 1 day every 2 weeks because all the supplies have run out. Who is going to use if...Oh yes, all the NSE and NCE who are back in the big camp....having an outlet so that the majority of troops can get a coffee once or twice a month?



Gee, I hate when I am right...


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## Franko (15 Jul 2006)

Not only that but you can't bar any other contingent's troops from buying from them. If you did that, the ramifications could be far reaching....read PX, Buger King, Pizza Hut etc.

It's a nicety, but come on. Are the troops out in the FOBs getting it on a regular basis?

*NOPE.*



NCE and NSE are.....

One tubby wubby....two tubby wubby.....

ushup:

Regards


----------



## Booked_Spice (15 Jul 2006)

Well I thought I would put my 2 cents in. Hubby is never on base however with that said. He actually was in camp for Canada day. He loved that Timmies was there and he got to try an ice lata closest thing to a slurpee he could find( not sure what it is called cause I only drink coffee) He said it was his highlight. So with that being said I am glad that Timmies was there because for that one drink it made his day. For that I am thankful. So whether all of your comments are right just remember that the one coffee or that slushy thing made one front line soldier happy for that one instant. That is all that counts in my books.


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## GAP (15 Jul 2006)

Booked_Spice said:
			
		

> For that I am thankful. So whether all of your comments are right just remember that the one coffee or that slushy thing made one front line soldier happy for that one instant. That is all that counts in my books.



+10


----------



## Franko (15 Jul 2006)

Booked_Spice said:
			
		

> So whether all of your comments are right just remember that the one coffee or that slushy thing made one front line soldier happy for that one instant. That is all that counts in my books.


*
In the end...that is the only thing that does count. *

The troops in the FOBs don't get anything on a regular basis so a nicety like that does mean alot.

I remember the first sip of a Ice Latte from the Green Bean and real burger from Burger King after spending about 2 months working out of the FOB in Lagman....it was pure heaven.

The thing that I was trying to get across is the fact that a few individuals are commenting (not here mind you) is that they should ensure that only Canadian troops should be served in the Timmies trailer.

I'd be nice that's for sure but it can't be done, the other contingents would surely freak out. The boardwalk is for everyone...no exceptions.

Mind you the freakin' Romulans should be barred from everything IMHO. They swarm like vultures on a carcase as soon as something new or nice meant for everyone becomes available.

There was one point in Canada House around December that there was more Romainians in there than Canadians. Try to get a seat to watch the Olympics and you'd have to almost grab them to get a chair. If there was new kit coming in to the Canex they were there before anyone else and grab up everything....leaving nothing for any Canucks.

After a couple of days they were barred completely...I believe they still are, someone here please correct me if I'm wrong.

/rant

Regards


----------



## Michael OLeary (16 Jul 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/060714/K071404U.html



> Canadian soldiers in Kandahar mourn temporary loss of doughnuts
> 03:42:52 EDT Jul 14, 2006
> 
> KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - Canada's soldiers in Kandahar say they can live with the oppressive heat, dust and exhaustion of fighting Taliban.
> ...



So, who, exactly, is drawing "the line"?

What "line" is being drawn?

What does this mean?

If the second highlighted quote takes precedence, what, exactly, is the point of the first?


----------



## greydak (17 Jul 2006)

I guess that the new Tim Hortons is going to counteract the CDS's fitter CF idea? 

I know our boys in the FOB's don't need doughnuts anyway, they are hard soldiers and can endure a tour without "fat pills". Besides it would suck to come home from war and your only war story is about the time you had to drink crappy american coffee, and when the Pizza Hut burnt your pie. Keep up the good *work* guys...


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## Aries (18 Jul 2006)

Yes, us NCE types are especially spoiled. That\s why i hate my cohorts complaining about every last detail while they sit in their air conditioned office with a double double and beef jerky, boils the blood.

By the way, I haven't seen any romulans dare enter canada house for anything other than smokes....and that's even during world cup time.

And although the PRT may have the best mess food, us MT7 folk send as much stuff as often as we can to our fellow sigs, and i think othr groups should be doing likewise.


----------



## Arctic Acorn (18 Jul 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> This just in !!
> 
> Kandahar Tim Horton's fresh out of doughnuts
> Updated Fri. Jul. 14 2006 9:14 AM ET  Canadian Press
> ...



I should report the article as an OPSEC violation...if it ever got out that Timmies is Vital Ground for the NCE/NSE, it'll just be a matter of time before it winds up on some bad guys HVTL.  ;D

 :dontpanic:


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## Korus (20 Jul 2006)

Now you've done it...........


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## Arctic Acorn (21 Jul 2006)

~RoKo~ said:
			
		

> Now you've done it...........



Nah, its okay dude...they don't have purple markers...  :warstory:


----------



## Towards_the_gap (23 Jul 2006)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Mind you the freakin' Romulans should be barred from everything IMHO. They swarm like vultures on a carcase as soon as something new or nice meant for everyone becomes available.
> 
> 
> /rant
> ...



Did you notice they never seemed to crowd out the gym? 

And what was with those cheap RC cars they bought on the bazaar.....bet they lasted long..

but back on thread, when I was there (aug-dec 05) the free timmies in canada house was a godsend. I didn't even know about it till a friend from the PRT brought me there one night. Must be very nice now to have a fully op timmies there.


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## Franko (23 Jul 2006)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Did you notice they never seemed to crowd out the gym?



That's because they were too busy building their still and stealing plums and peaches from the DFAC....

Draw your own conclusions.     

Regards


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## lawandorder (23 Jul 2006)

Do you know if they accept girft certificates that you buy in Canada at the timmies over there?


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## military granny (23 Jul 2006)

L&O 
Yes they do but remember that all the little food trailers deal in USD so send enough Canadian Timmies bucks to cover the exchange


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (23 Jul 2006)

After the Romanian Air Force Day show they can hang out in Canada House anytime.     They know how to do a CANCON show, let me tell you, and they even brought the performers around to visit the Canadian TOC.  

Meanwhile, I don't care about the doughnuts as long as the coffee keeps coming.  Two weeks of making coffee by leaving a bottle of water on the front of the vehicle and then adding instant makes you appreciate a double double (I had three today ).

Cheers!

2B


----------



## GAP (27 Sep 2006)

Slinging java for our boys
By CHRIS KITCHING, STAFF REPORTER
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/09/27/1905021-sun.html

Winnipegger joins Tim's in Kandahar

A Winnipegger is travelling to Afghanistan today on an important mission -- to make sure Canadian troops get their double-doubles and doughnuts. 

Matthew Podolas, 22, will be serving up a taste of home when he takes his six-month post at Tim Hortons' coffee shop at Kandahar Air Field. 

"It's my way of supporting the troops. I look up to them and they represent Canada quite well over there," Podolas said yesterday. "Joining the military isn't for everybody but everybody can help out. It doesn't matter what capacity, everything is appreciated." 

Podolas said he isn't worried about his safety in a conflict zone where NATO troops and insurgents are involved in fierce battles. 

Just yesterday, a Taliban suicide bomber killed 18 people outside a provincial governor's compound in Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan. 

AIR-CONDITIONED TENT 

Podolas will be staying in an eight-person, air-conditioned tent and is not allowed to leave the base, which has come under attack in the past. 

"We're having to tie lead weights to his ankles to keep him on the ground because he's so excited," said his dad, Gordon Podolas. "I'm proud of him." 

Java junkies from Canada and other nations line up daily at the transplanted Tim's, a 12-metre trailer with takeout windows. 

The store is smaller in size but serves most of the hot and cold beverages and baked goods homesick troops could buy at home. 

The Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency oversees the shop and the 15 civilians who work there. 

HAZARD PAY 

Employees earn an annual salary of $30,000 plus hazard pay, Podolos said. The military pays for their food and accommodation. 

Podolas's decision to go overseas was spurred by the service of his 28-year-old brother, Master Cpl. Mike Podolas, who is based in Edmonton and recently completed his second tour of Afghanistan. 

"Obviously it won't be the same thing, but I want to experience what he experienced," said Podolas, who recently learned about roadside bombs, mortar attacks and the country's culture during training at CFB Kingston in Ontario. 

But the hardest part of the job, he said, is being away from family and his girlfriend of three years. 

"She supports me but, of course, it will be hard to be away from her for six months," said Podolas, who works at Canad Inns Polo Park. "I'll miss her." 

For more information about the ways civilians can support Canadian soldiers visit www.cfpsa.com/supportourtroops. 
End


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Sep 2006)

I've heard he fancies himself the ladies man.  Pops must be proud either way.


----------



## TN2IC (27 Sep 2006)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Not only that but you can't bar any other contingent's troops from buying from them. If you did that, the ramifications could be far reaching....read PX, Buger King, Pizza Hut etc.
> 
> It's a nicety, but come on. Are the troops out in the FOBs getting it on a regular basis?



Doesn't Pizza Hut deliver?


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## Teflon (27 Sep 2006)

doughnuts,.... as much as I love a good doughnut (being an ex-mortarman) theres the reason the Brits call us the World's fattest army.


----------



## GAP (27 Sep 2006)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> I've heard he fancies himself the ladies man.  Pops must be proud either way.



Pops is proud, and as for what he fancies....if it works....some woman has him instead of me  ;D


----------



## Teflon (27 Sep 2006)

Doughnuts are a privilege not a right  ;D

http://www.pull-up-a-sandbag.com/cartoons/pages/command_jpg.htm


----------



## geo (27 Sep 2006)

Teflon said:
			
		

> doughnuts,.... as much as I love a good doughnut (being an ex-mortarman) theres the reason the Brits call us the World's fattest army.



nope, don't think so...... lots and lots of other forces contending for that "honour".


----------



## Teflon (27 Sep 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> nope, don't think so...... lots and lots of other forces contending for that "honour".



Take a good look around your base (and remove the welding goggles or whatever is hampering your vision)

We are very strong contenders for that dishonor


----------



## geo (27 Sep 2006)

Oh.... I know they're there. we have some alright..... but "the world's fattest"..... nope, don't think so.


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## Teflon (27 Sep 2006)

Good for you (nice rose coloured glasses by the way)


----------



## HItorMiss (27 Sep 2006)

I agree 100% with Teflon, It's sad when fit eager troops are the exception rather then the rule and that's where were going.

Not that I blame Timmies in KAF, sure was nice to have my double/double when you get back from a FOB


----------



## silentbutdeadly (27 Sep 2006)

Not that I blame Timmies in KAF, sure was nice to have my double/double when you get back from a FOB!

I hear ya! i agree with Teflon also..... remember they ran out of doughnuts there! who eats doughnuts in  60 degree heat? ahhhh yes the bigger ones and thats what the Brits were talking about.


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## Colin Parkinson (29 Sep 2006)

Teflon said:
			
		

> doughnuts,.... as much as I love a good doughnut (being an ex-mortarman) theres the reason the Brits call us the World's fattest army.




Hmm, all the ones I met looked and acted like starved rats! We had a bunch with us, you would think they had died and gone to heaven when our flying kitchen served lunch, they were staggered by the food we got and dam near fainted when I told them they could go for 2nds!! We also let them eat from our grub box where we had a huge tub of peanut butter, I never knew you could get 3" of peanut butter between 2 slices of bread


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## Trooper Hale (5 Oct 2006)

It is true fellers, you blokes are spoiled for food compared to the rest of us. I was in heaven in the mess in Petawawa, imagine being able to have "Poutine" AND a HUGE burger! Back here you dont often get the fatty foods or big helpings that you fellers get.
I saw some people (especially one wearing a tan beret! Had to be a clerk!) who shouldnt be wearing a bus drivers uniform, let alone a uniform of the Canadian forces. No respect but from the perspective of somone from overseas i saw more fat people in the CF then i would back home i reckon.

Tim Hortons is brilliant by the way and the doughnuts there were amazing, i'd never seen that sort of variety!


----------



## geo (5 Oct 2006)

Hale.... I agree with ya.
Lots of choices - but it is left to the individuals to control what they eat
The CF has tried to be proactive. Charging memebrs for their rations... you pay for what you use but, in the end, it's up to the individual.

With respect to poutine, it's great to have once in a while (+/- 1 per month) but, if you go for it every other day... it's a problem IMHO


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## foerestedwarrior (5 Oct 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> With respect to poutine, it's great to have once in a while (+/- 1 per month) but, if you go for it every other day... it's a problem IMHO



Oh man, I had poutine for the first time since highschool(3 years ago) on the weekend. It was so good, and I felt like crap for about 6 hours after. The mess' have tons of variety, some good, some bad. It is all on personal choices. Like geo said, the military gives you the choice, it is the indivuals decision to make.


----------



## keaner (5 Oct 2006)

> theres the reason the Brits call us the World's fattest army.



 it must be from all the deep fried toast and eggs we eat in our mess tents.... :


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## Trooper Hale (5 Oct 2006)

Geo's spot on in regards to the rations, you pay for what you eat thus its up to the individual. If you've got respect for yourself and for your job then you respect what you eat. If you dont you tend to become the sort of person people whisper about behind their hands.
But anyway, this isnt the post for all that, this is post to say that the boys and girls over in the stan are working hard enough to deserve a maple swirl and a cup of Char (char being tea, thats my order when i was in Canada at least) every now and then. Good on Timmies, now its just up to Hungry Jacks and Uncle Jeseppe to open a shop for us Aussies in the stan or Iraq


----------



## Teflon (10 Oct 2006)

One must always remember:

Doughnuts,... They are a privilege not a right!

Sadly the CF no longer has "desert table Nazis" any more.


----------



## silentbutdeadly (10 Oct 2006)

because there's more at the desert table then the salad bar! :blotto:


----------



## rmacqueen (4 Nov 2006)

(Mods, if this has already been posted I apologize)

This one really ticked me off.  After all the flag waving and free publicity Tim Horton's got from opening the outlet in Kandahar it turns out the taxpayers are actually paying for it.  Kudos to the government for making this happen but with the huge profits Tim Horton's is making off Canadians it really sucks the best they would do is wave the franchise fee.  I can't help but wonder if this would be the case if Tim Horton's was still a Canadian company.  Guess I will be getting my coffee elsewhere from now on.

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=886b7564-148b-4414-b9b2-74d625bef02a

*Ottawa foots bill for Afghan Tim Hortons*

Canadian taxpayer foots nearly $4-million bill

Hannah Boudreau
globalnational.com

Tuesday, October 31, 2006

OTTAWA — Just how much is a double-double and a doughnut worth to Canada’s troops?

Those on the ground in Afghanistan, where a Tim Hortons trailer opened earlier this year, might say the special Canadian treat is priceless.

For Canadian taxpayers, however, the morale-boosting move by the Canadian Forces has so far cost nearly $4 million and will continue to cost about $5 million each year, Global National has learned.

Although Tim Hortons waived the $450,000 franchise fee, the total cost for the first year of operations at Tim Hortons’ Kandahar franchise was over $3.9 million. Keeping the operation running throughout the duration of Canada’s mission in Afghanistan is estimated to cost as much as $5 million a year.

Documents obtained through Access to Information Act requests show the Canadian government purchased and retrofitted two trailers at a cost of $378,000. Transporting the coffee trailers to Afghanistan using two rented Soviet-era Illyushin-76 cargo planes cost another $425,000.

The first delivery of ingredients, in late June, cost another $1.4 million and sustaining the business through the first year rang up to about $550,000. Further costs associated with the Afghan Tim Hortons are $350,000 for engineering work to establish the outlet; $150,000 for operation and maintenance of the site; $650,000 in salaries; and $30,000 in training costs.

The Kandahar Tim Hortons serves approximately 2,300 Canadian troops, as well as 5,000 personnel from other countries.

The outlet serves more than 1,000 cups of coffee a day and, in its second month of operation, actually ran out of doughnuts and Timbits due to high demand.

What will happen to the profits is still to be determined, said Defence Department officials. Any money made will be held in a trust account for the time being and will most likely go into programs to support soldiers and their families.

"I don’t think the Canadian public will see this coming back," said Tyler Chamberlain with Ottawa University’s School of Management. "Hopefully, that contribution is going to be felt by the troops."

For many soldiers, a little taste of home helps pass the time in a country that has claimed the lives of 42 comrades since 2002.

"If you’ve had an interesting day, you can come back here and unwind and decompress," said Master Sgt. Eric Cramer. "It lets you go back, ready for another try."
© Global National 2006


----------



## armyvern (4 Nov 2006)

Hmmmm,



> What will happen to the profits is still to be determined, said Defence Department officials. Any money made will be held in a trust account for the time being and will most likely go into programs to support soldiers and their families.



Seems to me that Tim Horton's is not making the profits off the troops here. Not if they are being held in trust. Hopefully,those profits will indeed go towards programs supporting the soldiers and their families.


----------



## rmacqueen (4 Nov 2006)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Hmmmm,
> 
> Seems to me that Tim Horton's is not making the profits off the troops here. Not if they are being held in trust. Hopefully,those profits will indeed go towards programs supporting the soldiers and their families.


They not be making any "dollar" profits from this but they are making millions in free publicity, public relations and good will.  One MSM report of Tim Horton's doing good things for Canada is worth more to corporate profits than most advertising.  The expression "you can't buy that kind of publicity" is common amongst marketing professionals in big corporations and Tim's is riding this one.  How often have we seen the Tim Horton's logo in the background of photographs and news stories (more advertising) from Afghanistan and it is all a lie.  It should actually be the DND logo.  Wendy's (who actually own Tim Horton's) could easily write off the expense of this as advertising or pr.  Instead, DND is adding to their corporate profits.

BTW, it is estimated that the average Tim's will recoup the initial investment in a franchise within 2 years of opening.


----------



## karl28 (4 Nov 2006)

Morning every one if your talking about a  proper logo for  the Timmie's out let it should be  CFPSA  . Yes DND and Timmie's both help with the out let  but its actually run by  the CFPSA people .  I just finished my two weeks predeployment  training in   CFB Kingston had a great time now I am just waiting for the final phone on weather or not I get to go and where I would be going . If you any questions about the Timmie's out let  I will try and answer what I can  for you .


----------



## rmacqueen (4 Nov 2006)

karl, IM coming


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## retiredgrunt45 (4 Nov 2006)

"CTV News" had a segment on the news about Tim Hortons in Afg. The profits are going right back into the public coffers to support programs for the troops and their families in country. Tim's won't make a dime. The profits are probabaly a far cry from the 4 M that the tax payers are paying to operate the place. But did we already forget how the Liberal black hole swallowed 240M on absolutey nothing? At least we are seeing some benefits come from these tax dollars. Anything that eases the stress for our men and women who are serving over there is money well spent.

 So instead of criticizing the inititive, "*I don't have one in my town or there's not enough outlet's out west*" Who gives a rat's A@#, give it some positive feedback, because the people over there read this board also and the last thing they need to read about is some griping Canadians back at home who are safe and sound griping about what its costing to keep their Tim Hortons over there. God knows they probabaly hear enough of "Jack Laytons" garbage already and they don't need to hear it from their fellow Canadians. 

 And lastly for all you naysayers out there, why don't you put a uniform on and join them, then we'll see how much your attitude will change. Its easy to critisize from a distance, its hard to step up and put that empty blathering into action. Youll be thankful to have that "*Large Double double*"!

*SUPPORT OUR TROOPS AND GIVE THEM ANYTHING THEY NEED TO GET THE JOB DONE!!!!!!*

 "PRO PATRIA"


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## karl28 (4 Nov 2006)

rmacqueen   got your message  let me know if my response went through had a couple of glitches ,  but think it went through alright any more questions just drop me a line OK


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## rmacqueen (5 Nov 2006)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> So instead of criticizing the inititive, "*I don't have one in my town or there's not enough outlet's out west*" Who gives a rat's A@#, give it some positive feedback, because the people over there read this board also and the last thing they need to read about is some griping Canadians back at home who are safe and sound griping about what its costing to keep their Tim Hortons over there. God knows they probabaly hear enough of "Jack Laytons" garbage already and they don't need to hear it from their fellow Canadians.



I am not really sure why this comment as I have not read a single remark on here that criticizes the initiative just the fact that Tim Horton's is getting all kinds of free publicity for it.  I, for one, completely support the fact that it is there but am pretty darned ticked that Tim's couldn't see fit to fund it while they reap the rewards.  

As I said above, the news stories about the Tim's in Kandahar, in addition to all the shots of the logo in news stories, etc, is worth millions to them in advertising and the best they could do was wave the franchise fee.  Not a dime has come out of TH's pocket and Canadians should be aware of it.  I would like to think that Tim Horton is turning in his grave over the lack of support the company bearing his name is actually showing our troops.  What do you want to bet that the Kandahar Tim's shows up in TH's Christmas advertising?


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## rmacqueen (5 Nov 2006)

karl28 said:
			
		

> rmacqueen   got your message  let me know if my response went through had a couple of glitches ,  but think it went through alright any more questions just drop me a line OK



Got your message


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## spud (5 Nov 2006)

rmacqueen said:
			
		

> it.  I, for one, completely support the fact that it is there but am pretty darned ticked that Tim's couldn't see fit to fund it while they reap the rewards.



Tim Horton's is a publicly held company with "thousands" of owners, and the board of directors is responsible to these thousands of owners. You can't just up and commit millions of dollars of company money and expect them all to clap and say "go boy", no matter how much we would like them to. If Tim's doesn't pony up a cent what's the difference? Our folks now have access to a "double/double" and some Timbits, and if over time it costs the government 205million who cares. 

Why can't we just appreciate the fact that our guys have a well deserved, little slice of home?

potato


----------



## niner domestic (5 Nov 2006)

Didn't this board have a discussion similar to this over whether the staff at Pet's Timmies be allowed to wear red? That discussion also seemed to focus on Tim Horton's not doing enough for the troops etc blah blah...

I have some problems when individuals assume that it is the sole responsibility of any public or privately held corporation to fund/support/assist in military matters because to not do so, shows a level of unpatriotic demeanor.  Again the question goes out, "what would you have these corporations do besides what they appear to be doing at the moment?" (I believe it was George who poised this same question in an earlier thread).  

I see various tumble down arguments being used over the whole Timmies in A'stan, all wth the same result - Timmies is only good when they up the coin themselves... and Timmies is bad when they do not...:

The troops need/want a Timmies, why don't the desk bunnies at NDHQ do something about it? - start discussion on the needs of the troops etc versus no one listening/caring back home.

CDS says, make a Timmies happen in A'stan - start discussion on the merits of troop morale and high five-ing the power that be that made the decision.

Local Timmies won't let their staff wear a red shirt on Fridays - Start discussion on how unpatriotic that decision is and how TImmies is not being supportive of the troops.

Timmies opens in Kandahar - start a discussion and high five all those responsible but forgetting to ask, "who *IS* paying for this anyway?"

Timmies in Kandahar costs taxpayers to establish and sustain. - start a discussion on how Timmies is a greedy corporate slut making money off the backs of our troops and not being patriotic at all.   

This has the markings of *the* discussion that will never end. (unless Paracowboy finds another torture thread soon)  

Personally, if the Timmies in Kandahar appears in any Xmas commercials and they include any troopies in the shot, and little Susie or Jimmy can watch TV and see their daddy or mommy for 30 secs in a somewhat normal scenario - I say, roll those cameras.

On a slight OT, I've had my own moment with a local Timmies showing their support to troops.  One time at the end of an HTLA and hubby was returning to finish up his last 6 months of his posting, he asked the staff at Halifax Airport's Timmies to put together a box of goodies for the guys and gals for him to take back.  When the Timmies manager found out it was for CF personnel, she waived the cost of the goodies and threw in a few cans of coffee on top of the order.  

At my local Timmies, when ever they know my hubby is away, they always ask when am I sending the next parcel as they'd like me to include a note from them to wish him and the rest of the CF personnel well and always have a little box of goodies to include.    I'm just boggled at what else this corporation could possibly do to show anymore support?


----------



## rmacqueen (5 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> Tim Horton's is a publicly held company with "thousands" of owners, and the board of directors is responsible to these thousands of owners. You can't just up and commit millions of dollars of company money and expect them all to clap and say "go boy", no matter how much we would like them to.


That is where you are wrong.  A company like Tim Hortons can easily commit that kind of money without shareholder approval by placing it under marketing and goodwill.  Large corporations, such as Wendy's International, all report goodwill as a monetary amount for tax purposes.  As well, advertising, such as the trailer in Kandahar, is also reported as an expense.  As well, when you look at the breakdown, the expenses are not in the millions on an annual basis and some of the costs would have been born by the government anyway.

In the quarter immediately prior to the opening of the Tim's in Kandahar, the company reported a 34% increase in profits.  This translated into a profit of $63.6 million (Cdn) for *three months*.  This was based on $373 million in sales, of which 3.5% is put into an advertising fund.  Again, I would point out that this is for only 3 months!

As far as I am concerned, TH is no better than Jack Layton.  They are using Afghanistan as free advertising while doing nothing to help our troops.  Remember all the news coverage about how they were going to open the one in Kandahar?  Did they at any point mention that it was being paid for by the government?  No!  Tim Horton's was content to let the Canadian public think that they were great supporters of our troops while the whole time it was our government.

Again, I want to reiterate, the problem is not that TH is not paying it is the fact that they are taking credit for it.  Tim Horton's should be ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of the situation for their own corporate profit.  The government is the one supplying this for the benefit of our soldiers and TH should not be allowed to take any credit for it.



			
				niner domestic said:
			
		

> On a slight OT, I've had my own moment with a local Timmies showing their support to troops.  One time at the end of an HTLA and hubby was returning to finish up his last 6 months of his posting, he asked the staff at Halifax Airport's Timmies to put together a box of goodies for the guys and gals for him to take back.  When the Timmies manager found out it was for CF personnel, she waived the cost of the goodies and threw in a few cans of coffee on top of the order.
> 
> At my local Timmies, when ever they know my hubby is away, they always ask when am I sending the next parcel as they'd like me to include a note from them to wish him and the rest of the CF personnel well and always have a little box of goodies to include.    I'm just boggled at what else this corporation could possibly do to show anymore support?



There has been tremendous local support but lets give credit where it is due.  This type of thing comes from the managers in the community not from the corporate level.  Each outlet varies in the support they give.


----------



## spud (5 Nov 2006)

rmacqueen said:
			
		

> That is where you are wrong.  A company like Tim Hortons can easily commit that kind of money without shareholder approval by placing it under marketing and goodwill.  Large corporations, such as Wendy's International, all report goodwill as a monetary amount for tax purposes.



I'm not going to argue tax law or corporate governance on here with you, but your view is way too simplisitc. 

Only my opinion, I haven't noticed Tim's taking any undue advantage of the situation and to be truthful, I could care less. As I said previously, our folks can now get it and that's good enough for me. Tim's uses it for some marketing, big deal. Any company that thought they could get some mileage out of it would do the same thing.

potato


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (5 Nov 2006)

Well, let's remember where the initiative for a Tim's in KAF came from in the first place:  the media and, in reaction, the CF.  There was bleating in the press about the lack of Tim's in theatre (all the while forgetting the logistical challenges and the fact that there's already a variety of other - US - outlets there) and the CF rather reluctantly asked TH to put something together.

Given this, I'm not likely to begrudge TH its profit, realizing that CFPSA is getting a chunk.  I happen to be one of those grumpy farts that thinks demands for TH in theatre smacked of whining, but they're there now and stupid media ranting about the "cost" after _they_ led the charge for TH in the first place is somewhat disingenuous.


----------



## tlg (5 Nov 2006)

Now this is only rumour, but I heard that wendy's is thinking of selling Tim's. I hear it's not doing so well in the states. 

Now for the real thing.

Yes the Big Bad Wendy's/Tim Horton's Corporation could foot the bill if they wanted to. But there's the kicker. All that money they make in profit, if they use any of it gets taxed to hell. So why not make the government pay for it and therefore FORCE the local populous to pay for it. Should they pay for it, yes. Do I blame them for not paying for it? No. I might as well own a large share in the 4 yes 4 Tim's that reside here in Lindsay. That's how much coffee, donuts, bagels, muffins, etc. I consume. Do I mind footing a bill to ship a Tim's overseas HELLS NO. in fact I say make the thing bigger. A thousand cups of coffee a day? Please that's child's play, we have a tiny little drive-thru/walk-in only outlet that does more than that. 

i like my coffee hot, served within twenty minutes, and in extra large double double format. I'll also take a chocolate chip muffin and a vanilla dip donut.

Here's to those that can't have any and those that deserve it more than I.

//EDIT: 


			
				Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Well, let's remember where the initiative for a Tim's in KAF came from in the first place:  the media and, in reaction, the CF.  There was bleating in the press about the lack of Tim's in theatre (all the while forgetting the logistical challenges and the fact that there's already a variety of other - US - outlets there) and the CF rather reluctantly asked TH to put something together.
> 
> Given this, I'm not likely to begrudge TH its profit, realizing that CFPSA is getting a chunk.  I happen to be one of those grumpy farts that thinks demands for TH in theatre smacked of whining, but they're there now and stupid media ranting about the "cost" after _they_ led the charge for TH in the first place is somewhat disingenuous.



With this new knowledge the both the media AND the CF should foot the bill.


----------



## niner domestic (5 Nov 2006)

It's not a rumour, Wendy's made that announcement back in June to target the remaining shares for sale in the Fall.  The speculation is that Tim Horton's will attempt to purchase the outstanding stock.


----------



## tlg (5 Nov 2006)

wow. Didn't know that wendy's was giving up Tim's and that Tim's was actually going to scoop up shares. What's going to happen to all those joint Wendy's/Tim Horton's stores when all is done?


----------



## niner domestic (5 Nov 2006)

The simple explanation is that Wendy's, having looked at the future marketability of the TH chain found that it had reached it's saturation point in Canada.  Some analysts argue that when that occurs the profits remain static with not much growth factors (more profit).  Wendy's has decided to offload it's shares in TH to free up cash flow to pursue other cash cows. 

(Doesn't anyone see the irony of the whinning about TH not being patriotic when it's owned by an American corp?)


----------



## rmacqueen (5 Nov 2006)

niner domestic said:
			
		

> It's not a rumour, Wendy's made that announcement back in June to target the remaining shares for sale in the Fall.  The speculation is that Tim Horton's will attempt to purchase the outstanding stock.



They have earmarked $200 million for a stock buy back


----------



## geo (5 Nov 2006)

niner domestic said:
			
		

> The simple explanation is that Wendy's, having looked at the future marketability of the TH chain found that it had reached it's saturation point in Canada.  Some analysts argue that when that occurs the profits remain static with not much growth factors (more profit).  Wendy's has decided to offload it's shares in TH to free up cash flow to pursue other cash cows.
> 
> (Doesn't anyone see the irony of the whinning about TH not being patriotic when it's owned by an American corp?)



One of the other things that prompted Wendy's to sell off TH is that, in some ways, they found that TH was diluting their share of the market - taking away sales (from itself)..... twisted thinking IMHO but, they're the ones with the big staff.

WRT TH "raking in the big bucks" from all that free advertising, I would say "bull hockey",  The Chain & the franchisees have made no effort to air the fact that there is a TH franchise in KAF... TH could ask us to take down the TH shingle in KAF & we'd (CF) just be buying their supplies @ cost BUT, for the boys over there, it wouldn't be Timmy's (would it)


----------



## bily052 (27 Nov 2006)

This Just IN....


It's not Tim Horton's fault Kandahar coffee costs so much

Mon Nov 27 2006

NIAGARA FALLS, Ont. -- Company and military officials say Canadian taxpayers won't be footing a reported $4-million bill for Canadian troops to enjoy a cup of Tim Hortons coffee in Afghanistan.

Media reports had pegged the price tag for starting up the coffee franchise in the Kandahar region at $4 million, with maintenance costing up to $5 million each year.

Officials at Tim Hortons head office in Oakville, Ont., and the Department of National Defence in Ottawa said the amount reported late last month was wrong.

The numbers were taken from a report that contained estimated costs for the project and not actual costs, they said.

"It has been very confusing, because it was incorrectly reported," said Nick Javor, senior vice-president of corporate affairs for Tim Hortons.

Karen Johnstone, spokeswoman for National Defence in Ottawa, said the incremental cost for the first 12 months was an estimated $1.16 million. That included $200,000 to hook up the trailers and $80,000 per month for employee wages and utilities.

Moreover, the Afghanistan venture is not a normal business transaction, Javor said.

Rather than Tim Hortons contacting the military about opening an outlet in Kandahar, it was the soldiers who made it known to their superiors they would like to have a Tim Hortons outlet.

Tim Hortons waived the $450,000 franchise fee, future royalty fees, sold the two sales trailers to the Canadian military at cost and supplied technical staff, volunteers and others to help with training.

The Tim Hortons outlet in Kandahar, run by the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, serves 2,300 Canadian troops and 5,000 personnel from other countries. It is located on a boardwalk along with other American concessions. Their gross profit is $5,000 a day.

-- CanWest News Service 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/canada/story/3791527p-4385276c.html


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## geo (27 Nov 2006)

numbers, numbers.... all sorts of numbers.

When you get down to it TH is there for troop morale.  It should not be making a profit.  This stuff is "in lieu" of the two beer limit we were used to having when deployed to such places as the FRY...............

Who cares what it costs? - this is a quality of life issue and money should not be an issue~!

IMHO!


----------



## gaspasser (27 Nov 2006)

And seeing as the profit goes to back to PSP, and gets re-routed to the troops thru the MFRC? 
Do the troops mind if they're paying and extra penny or two for something that reminds them of home?

Troops, your input please.
GP


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## geo (27 Nov 2006)

If the troops objected, do you think they would be pumping their cash across the TH counter?....

They support it!


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## old medic (28 Nov 2006)

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentID=290188&catname=Local+News

Kandahar Tim's not costing us; Taxpayers not subsidizing coffee outlet for soldiers in Afghanistan: Company



> TONY RICCIUTO
> Local News - Saturday, November 25, 2006 @ 02:00
> 
> Taxpayers aren't getting creamed after all for the cost to open a Tim Hortons outlet in Afghanistan, where Canadian soldiers are serving.
> ...


----------



## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2006)

At  $5,000 a day thats almost 2 million a year. How does that compae to other tim hortons  Canada side?

On a side note Americans are hooked to the stuff.  $5000 a day? I bet thats on a bad day.  Not uncommon for people to order 50 coffees at once.  An american girl ordered 106 coffees one time, sadly she was infront of me.

I never noticed the prices were high, then again I'm not a coffee drinker.  If it's too expensive then get it for free in the kitchen .


----------



## Cloud Cover (28 Nov 2006)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> An american girl ordered 106 coffees one time, sadly she was infront of me.



The US Army must also use the f%king Timmies in Byron as well, [near London, ON].  :threat: :crybaby:


----------



## rmacqueen (28 Nov 2006)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> The US Army must also use the f%king Timmies in Byron as well, [near London, ON].  :threat: :crybaby:


Nah, that's just the way Byron is.  You should try the one in Forest, Ontario on a Sat morn


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## armyvern (28 Nov 2006)

rmacqueen said:
			
		

> Nah, that's just the way Byron is.  You should try the one in Forest, Ontario on a Sat morn


Or any of the Tims in Gagetown between 1000-1030 any day of the week. Oy yoy yoy.


----------



## geo (28 Nov 2006)

I remember they had to put in rules at the Valcatraz TH
- No LAVs or 2 1/2s at the drive thru window
- No groups in excess of 30 allowed in at one time
- No weapons inside the store


----------



## niner domestic (28 Nov 2006)

The TH at Young and Robie in Hellifax brags to be the busiest TH in Canada.  (not sure if they just meant in the AM only or at stand easy)


----------



## tannerthehammer (29 Nov 2006)

Tim Horton's coffee is disgusting...But then again Starbucks doesn't have any plans to go to A-Stan....Yes lets fill up our troops with shitty coffee and fatty disgusting donuts...How about a bar on base that serves more than 3 times a year...


----------



## aesop081 (29 Nov 2006)

tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> How about a bar on base that serves more than 3 times a year...



And that has ....what....to do with TH is Afghanistan ?


----------



## career_radio-checker (29 Nov 2006)

tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> Tim Horton's coffee is disgusting



BLASPHEME!!!  ;D

If were going to make a list of the busiest TH in Canada, I'd like to see which one is the worst.
In my books, the TH at the Wolf Island ferry terminal in Kingston, Ont is by far the worst Timmies.
There could be 3 people in line with small orders (like 2-4 coffees) yet you'll still be waiting +10 minutes in line.
It's dirty and there is a needle drop box in the male washroom.
Ironically, the store is strategically placed right across from the Kingston Police station... (insert typical cop stereotype here).


----------



## flamingbear (29 Nov 2006)

Starbucks - good coffee?  The word oxymoron comes to mind.


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## delicious_in_t_o (29 Nov 2006)

Hi there, 
Just wanted to know if anyone had info regarding gift certificates purchased in Canada whether or not they are valid at the Tim's on the base in AFGHANISTAN?
Thanks! DS


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## m410 (29 Nov 2006)

flamingbear said:
			
		

> Starbucks - good coffee?  The word oxymoron comes to mind.


How about non-sequiter?  I suggest you look up the definition of oxymoron.  If you don't like Starbucks, just say so.  As for me, if I could only have one or the other, it would be Starbucks in a heartbeat.  Tims is blech.  Call me unCanadian if you like (it's the Canadian thing to do).


----------



## Yrys (29 Nov 2006)

There is at least 1 thread on that somewhere, try SEARCH...

(from memory, yes, but better research it)


----------



## PoPo (29 Nov 2006)

dano74 said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> Just wanted to know if anyone had info regarding gift certificates purchased in Canada whether or not they are valid at the Tim's on the base in AFGHANISTAN?
> Thanks! DS



Dano - they sure are!


----------



## geo (29 Nov 2006)

..... Me, I like Second cup.... followed by Timmies.
Starbucks?...


----------



## niner domestic (29 Nov 2006)

And I like Blue Mountain coffee, which TH does not sell, but then neither does SB or SC, I believe the point of having a TH in Kandahar is so that no matter where a pers comes from they are bound to have had a local TH in their hometown and perhaps have some good memories of it.  SB and SC on the other hand, just don't invoke that kind of sentimentality as they don't have that kind of market penetration.  My sentiments of SB come strictly from the movie, "You've Got Mail" and SC invokes a slight memory of Kingston Shopping Centre (although they do make a kick butt white hot chocolate mix) but as for TH, I can honestly say I probably have a TH story (good, bad or indifferent but nonetheless a story) from every place I've ever visited, been posted to or passed through on the way to heading home.   And if the pers in a'stan even have one of those types of memories of home/Canada while they sip a double/double and it makes their time there all that much more bearable so they can get the job done, then I say who are we to sit in the comfort of our homes or otherwise safe environments and tell them they are drinking crap coffee or that the TH there is a waste of money?


----------



## 043 (29 Nov 2006)

tannerthehammer said:
			
		

> Tim Horton's coffee is disgusting...But then again Starbucks doesn't have any plans to go to A-Stan....Yes lets fill up our troops with shitty coffee and fatty disgusting donuts...How about a bar on base that serves more than 3 times a year...



You're an idiot. Sorry, but you are..............obviously you don't understand why the bar only serves 3 times a year.


----------



## delicious_in_t_o (29 Nov 2006)

Yrys said:
			
		

> There is at least 1 thread on that somewhere, try SEARCH...
> 
> (from memory, yes, but better research it)


I actually did before I posted...it says 0 results when I searched "Tim Hortons" but just to be sure I checked again and wouldn't you know it that pesky little apostrophe made a big difference (Tim Horton's) - found it! Sorry bout that - I should have been more diligent in checking.

Thanks PoPo -  I am now in contact with someone at CFPSA to arrange sending some over.  

In a connected cute little side bar...I got the contact above from an unlikely place - I recently saw a piece on the news about Steam Whistle donating 1000 plus bottles of beer to send to the base in Kandahar I believe...when I contacted them they first indicated that there was no way for the public to be involved.  But then today JOY! I received an email from Steam Whistle that the public CAN indeed donate to send some over.  I am waiting for CFPSA to get back to me with more specific details if any one else is interested in sending a 24 over for the holidays


----------



## Pearson (29 Nov 2006)

Dano, just a note. When searching this site for anything, use the main forum page search bar as a start point.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php

Using Tim Hortons you get 5 pages of hits, yet if you use the search bar at the top of your page as you read this you will get zero hits.


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## observor 69 (30 Nov 2006)

Picked up the "Tim's Times" Holiday Edition 2006, gotta love it  , at the TH's in the mall in Guelph today and found the following article inside:

http://www.timhortons.com/en/news/news_archive_2006h.html


----------



## old medic (2 Dec 2006)

http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=89681

Web Posted: 12/1/2006 5:46:50 PM
  	



> A former Thunder Bay resident has made a generous gesture to show his support for Canadian troops in Afghanistan.
> 
> Burlington businessman John Podlewski, who hails from Thunder Bay, is sending 2,600 sets of gift certificates to buy each Canadian in service overseas, a large Tim Hortons double-double and a donut.
> 
> ...


----------



## geo (3 Dec 2006)

although John Podlewski does not appear to be a member/participant here

+2600 for his thoughtful gesture!

CHIMO!


----------



## GAP (17 Jan 2007)

Proud of the little fella, I am, I am.......

*Message from PM*  
By LAURIE MUSTARD January 17, 2007 
Article Link

Winnipegger Matt Podolas, 23, got an extremely pleasant surprise Sunday night at the Canad Inns family holiday celebration. 

Back home on holidays amid working six months at the Tim Hortons at Kandahar Air Field, Afghanistan, the Canad Inns employee was being recognized for his contribution to our Canadian troops by Canad Inns president and CEO Leo Ledohowski. 

After presenting Matt with a Canad Inns gift, Leo read Matt the following letter: (edited for length). 

"Dear Matthew, 

"It is with great pleasure that I extend my personal greetings to you on the occasion of your 23rd birthday and your return to Canada from Afghanistan. 

"I am certain that our servicemen and servicewomen greatly appreciate the work you and your colleagues do to provide them with the comforts of home while they bravely serve our country abroad. 

"I would like to personally thank you for your decision to help out in Kandahar. Your efforts are commendable and I wish you the best as you prepare to return to Afghanistan later this month. 

"Once again, please accept my best wishes for a wonderful celebration spent with friends, family and colleagues. 

"Sincerely, The Rt. Hon. Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada." 

Matt's reaction to the letter? "Completely beside myself. I was shocked and humbled that he would take the time to acknowledge what I'm doing in support of our troops. And to have the prime minister wish you happy birthday. Wow." 

Matt's decision to go overseas was spurred by the service of his 28-year-old brother, Master Cpl. Mike Podolas, who recently completed his second tour in Afghanistan. 

So how's your tour going, Matt? "Really well. I'm living in an eight-person tent at the Kandahar Air Base, have my own little room, it's interesting." 

More on link


----------



## geo (17 Jan 2007)

Heh.... Interesting! - Am glad even the little guy is being looked after.
Here's to an employer who has gone out of his way to recognize an employee who volunteered to leave his employment, to work in  Afghanistan (at probably better pay) AND he's got a job waiting for him when he gets back

Nicely done!

Chimo!


----------



## RatCatcher (23 Apr 2007)

Apparently (at least according to combat camera), Tim Hortons in theater are doing a Roll Up the Rim contest with actual prizes. On top of that, your coffee comes in an AR CadPat cup!!!


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## navymich (23 Apr 2007)

Here's the  link to what ratcatcher is talking about.  That's cool.  I was just wondering the other day if they had the rollup cups over there too!


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## Mike Baker (23 Apr 2007)

;D I like it


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## Quag (23 Apr 2007)

Nice to see continued support from a Canadian Great.


----------



## duke5307 (23 Apr 2007)

Quag said:
			
		

> Nice to see continued support from a Canadian Great.



Agreed! You don't see Dunkin' Donuts doing this for the American GI's do ya???


----------



## MikeM (23 Apr 2007)

They have Green Beans, which makes some excellent beverages, but no donuts 

Timmies is constantly lined up in KAF compared to the other vendors. Good on them!


----------



## deedster (23 Apr 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> Here's the  link to what ratcatcher is talking about.


EXCELLENT !!!!  Thanks for the photo!


----------



## The_Pipes (23 Apr 2007)

My fiance works at Timmies and wishes they would've had those when I was there a few months ago and brought her back one of those cups :


----------



## deedster (23 Apr 2007)

The_Pipes said:
			
		

> brought her back one of those cups :


Not to mention the COOL hat!


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## JR84 (23 Apr 2007)

Green Beans was good, but i wish that they had Tims when i was in KAF


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## medaid (24 Apr 2007)

OH!! I want one of those cups too! 


Hey maybe they can start out a collectors line. OR, maybe they can pump some AR & TW cups when it comes closer to Rememberance Day to support our troops?


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## ChenoasGrace26 (24 Apr 2007)

Thats actually a good idea MedTech, I know tons of ppl who would love the chance to grab a limited edition 'Support Our Troops' mugs. Timmy's and our nation's soldiers, two of the countries finest.


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## deedster (24 Apr 2007)

+1 CG26 !


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## Babbling Brooks (24 Apr 2007)

I just sent a note to CFPSA and Tim Hortons suggesting they sell a thermal Tim Hortons / CFPSA cup in CADPAT with the Kandahar 2007 yellow-ribbon logo on it to the the general public, with some proceeds benefitting the CFPSA or the CDS Military Families Fund or some other charitable vehicle for the extended CF family.

Hopefully some marketing genius will run with it.


----------



## medaid (24 Apr 2007)

hahah beat me to it. Oh well


----------



## Babbling Brooks (24 Apr 2007)

> hahah beat me to it. Oh well Smiley



I doubt I'll be seeing any royalties from the idea, so no big loss, MedTech!


----------



## medaid (24 Apr 2007)

hahaha royalties would've gone to a CF charity... or quite possibly the wounded soldier's fund anyways. No loss to me


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## Thorvald (24 Apr 2007)

Good god, someone who's current in KAF grab a bunch of these and toss em on eBay, you'll make a killing...


----------



## deedster (25 Apr 2007)

Exactly!  ;D


----------



## reccecrewman (25 Apr 2007)

That is a good idea............ Just go to the counter, order 10 large double double's and tell them to hold the coffee.  Then take your 10 mint condition cups and fire them up on e-bay. Guarentee they make at least a 500% profit on what you paid for them.

Regards


----------



## Bzzliteyr (25 Apr 2007)

And then donate the proceeds to the "feed the Bzz" fund.. yeah... that's it...


----------



## GAP (25 Apr 2007)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> And then donate the proceeds to the "feed the Bzz" fund.. yeah... that's it...



no no no....the BBG fund.....


(buy beer for Gord)


----------



## Thorvald (25 Apr 2007)

Woah hang on here, I should at least get a cut as the originator  >   

My take will go towards a very worthy cause... reducing the price of Innis & Gunn beer and putting it in cases!   God that stuff is bottled ambrosia...

(if you haven't tried this stuff yet, head to your local Booze Can Store and check the imports shelf).


----------



## NL_engineer (25 Apr 2007)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> That is a good idea............ Just go to the counter, order 10 large double double's and tell them to hold the coffee.  Then take your 10 mint condition cups and fire them up on e-bay. Guarentee they make at least a 500% profit on what you paid for them.
> 
> Regards



just ask for it double cupped, roll up one on the outside  ;D


----------



## Babbling Brooks (26 Apr 2007)

> Then take your 10 mint condition cups and fire them up on e-bay.



Hah!  Like any red-blooded Canuck could keep from rolling up a rim made for rolling!


----------



## NL_engineer (26 Apr 2007)

Babbling Brooks said:
			
		

> Hah!  Like any red-blooded Canuck could keep from rolling up a rim made for rolling!



It would take a lot of will power, but it could be possable  ;D


----------



## Babbling Brooks (26 Apr 2007)

> It would take a lot of will power, but it could be possable



I double-dog dare you to throw out your next Timmies Roll Up The Rim cup without rolling it up.  Betcha you can't.

 ;D


----------



## Conquistador (26 Apr 2007)

Babbling Brooks said:
			
		

> I double-dog dare you to throw out your next Timmies Roll Up The Rim cup without rolling it up.  Betcha you can't.
> 
> ;D



Heh, I've done that a few times accidentally. I was pissed off for the rest of the day, cause you just _know_ that was a winning cup.


----------



## Rigginrat (26 Apr 2007)

My brother is overseas "Op Athena" and I am sending over a package.  I would like to send some Tim Hortons gift certificates.  Anyone know if they be accepted at the "local" Timmies?

Cheers


----------



## Pte_Martin (26 Apr 2007)

Yes they will be good


----------



## Mike Baker (26 Apr 2007)

I have a picture of my cousin fixing the taps at the Timmies in KAF, and he did bring some gift certificates when he went back.  ;D


----------



## MikeM (26 Apr 2007)

It's OP Archer.

Yes the gift certificates are accepted as Infantry_ stated above. All the best to your brother.


----------



## MJP (26 Apr 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> no no no....the BBG fund.....
> 
> 
> (buy beer for Gord)



What would you do with the beer?  Considering you don't drink and all......


----------



## CdnArtyWife (26 Apr 2007)

MikeM said:
			
		

> It's OP Archer.



It may be OP Archer for some, but all my pkgs (incl Timmies coupons) for my hubby, his brother and his girlfriend go to OP Athena...and it makes it there fine. Also, hubby's internal email overseas is OP Athena...so not everyone is under the OP Archer umbrella.

CAW


----------



## GAP (26 Apr 2007)

MJP said:
			
		

> What would you do with the beer?  Considering you don't drink and all......



Funny thing that....I have this whole slew of sons/daughter that have no difficulty helping me out, following the "fine" example of their older brother!!


----------



## NL_engineer (27 Apr 2007)

Babbling Brooks said:
			
		

> I double-dog dare you to throw out your next Timmies Roll Up The Rim cup without rolling it up.  Betcha you can't.
> 
> ;D



Out of the past three coffees, I haven't gotten a roll up the rim cup; Tims must be all out  :


----------



## MikeM (27 Apr 2007)

Fair enough, as long as it gets there


----------



## jollyjacktar (27 Apr 2007)

Got several sitting in my locker, un rolled and waiting to come home with me in a couple of months.  (And yeah it is killing me to leave them alone) 

Otherwise, as usual, the ones I roll have only coughed up a doughnut so far...  What is funny is seeing the instructions in four languages on how to play the game.  The first line in one of the instructions is to "finish coffee", maybe the excitement was too much for some.  Good to see the boys in the FOB's are supposed to get a crack at some cups too.  Hope they have better luck than I do.


----------



## RCR Grunt (1 May 2007)

Do they have a special Kandahar line of prizes?  Ammo would be sweet, or kit ... Imagine rolling up the rim and winng a pallet of 155mm shells, or a can of 25mm!  A case of hand grenades would be sweet as well! LOL


----------



## GAP (1 May 2007)

I believe there is a very short claim period once the contest ends....watch you don't win something significant only to lose out because the time ran out!!


----------



## HItorMiss (1 May 2007)

RCR Grunt said:
			
		

> A case of hand grenades would be sweet as well! LOL



Lets hope the American ones....Or I would rather a hot Tims to scald the enemy with, at least I know what will happen after I throw the coffee


----------



## Sig_Des (1 May 2007)

almost a thousand winners to date here....and I haven't been one of them....dammit!

Apparently, the Caps are going for anywhere between 800 and 1500 on ebay!


----------



## civmick (2 May 2007)

so this is how the Leo2s are getting to KAF - as Timmy prizes?


----------



## Thompson_JM (4 May 2007)

Its Awsome... even though im thousands of miles away im still getting the chance to play again over here!! lol

its cool though.. My first question was, if i win the car, do they send it over here??

but they have different prizes.. obviously..

 a few $1000 cash
some cameras
hats
and food prizes

Its nice of them to do that for us! and the FOB guys all got like 10 cups each to roll up. i know a few guys who won hats.... (im still trying to figure out where i can buy one!)


----------



## *star (21 May 2007)

Army News story on YouTube about Tim Hortons KAF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOkrKvhTmxw&mode=related&search=


----------



## Tinman (3 Nov 2007)

OK Time to wake up this TOPIC!

There is a new group on FACEBOOK called "Make a Support our Troops Cup"  and they have also started an online petition. 
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TimHortons/index.html

Similar to the method used for the 'Highway of Heroes' lobby that was very successful. I signed already, but they need a much better response.


----------



## Strike (5 Nov 2007)

Mods:  Feel free to change to a better suited forum.  Didn't know where else to put it.

Went and got my Tim card today.  I was told it's actually a rechargeable gift card and that they were doing away with the paper gift certificates.

I asked if they were available to buy at all and was told, "No, it's just going to be the Tim Card now."

Me: "So, what happens if I want to send some gift certificates out to my friends serving in Afghanistan?"

Teller: "Oh, I'm sure that they'll have the machine set up there as well."

Me: "I'm pretty sure that they won't."

Teller: "No, no.  We were told that EVERY store is on this system."

Me: "You may want to check on that."

Teller asks the manager, and sure enough, no machine at KAF.  So the deployed pers are SOL wrt getting Timmies on a gift certificate.  The only avenue is to write head office.

Who's up for it?  Haven't had a chance to get the mailing and e-mail address for them yet, but will post it when I do.


----------



## 211RadOp (5 Nov 2007)

E-mail address customer_service@timhortons.com

Snail mail 
Head Office
874 Sinclair Road
Oakville, ON L6K 2Y1
Tel: (905) 845-6511
Fax: (905) 845-0265


----------



## GAP (5 Nov 2007)

What I sent



> I was wanting to send over some gift certificates to Kandahar, but I hear they are no longer available and that the cards you now offer do not work over there.......Should I send a Green Beans card instead?


----------



## geo (5 Nov 2007)

Message sent to Timmy's head office.


----------



## medaid (5 Nov 2007)

This is what I had sent:

Dear sir/ma'am,

  I'm writing to express my concern witregards to the lack of Tim Card reader at Kandahar Air Field, Afghanistan, and the sudden stoppage of availability of gift certificates. It was brought to my attention that due to the change over to the electronic method of storing gift points, the paper certificates have been cancelled. along with this information, I have also learned that such an electronic reader which is required for the Tim Card's operation is unavailable to the troops in Afghanistan. Please inform me how Tim Hortons plans to rectify this problem and how soon it will be done? 

Sincerely,

A Concerned Supporter of The Troops, and A Long Time Consumer of Tim Hortons.


----------



## Scottish_Mom (5 Nov 2007)

SENT VIA EMAIL TODAY:

Hello,

My son will be deploying to Afghanistan in Feb '08 for a 6 month tour. I would like to purchase some gift certificates for his Christmas stocking as he will be flying home for Christmas. When I went to a Tim Horton's outlet, I was told that there are no more paper gift certificates available, only Tim Horton's rechargeable
gift cards. 

I would like to purchase one but I was told when I asked them to check that there is no machine available at the Kandahar base in Afghanistan that can take
this gift card.

Can you please tell me how I am supposed to get my son, the soldier, gift certificates that he can use at the Timmies in Afghanistan? I would really appreciate it and more importantly, so will he....

Many thanks,


----------



## woodys girl (12 Nov 2007)

Paper G/C that have been purchased to date, have to honoured at any Tim Hortons....and some locations can not use the "timmy cards"....example....Queen's University in Kingston....because the "swipper" they use is only  for the students "flex dollars"...meal plan..
So paper g/c is the only thing they use.


And whats with Timmy's taking M/C....all you need to do is swipe your own card if the order is 25 dollars or under....something wrong with that picture....


----------



## GAP (12 Nov 2007)

My answer from Tim Hortons:

Dear Mr. ,

I would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us at our Head
Office.  At Tim Hortons we strive to offer all of our customers friendly
and efficient customer service, high quality products in a clean and
pleasant atmosphere.

Unfortunately the Tim Hortons location in Kandahar is not set up to accept
Tim Cards. The paper variety of gift certificates is still redeemable at
this location, and can be purchased at many locations here in Canada. We
are still offering paper certificates until the stock is depleted. Please
contact your local store to inquire about the availability of paper
certificates.

It is by listening and reacting to our valued customers feedback that we
have been able to achieve and maintain success to date.

We look forward to serving you again in the near future.

Best Regards,
Tarrah
Operations Services
THE TDL GROUP CORP.

Quickpay Tim Card FAQs

-What is the Quickpay Tim Card?
The Quickpay Tim Card is a pre-paid, reloadable cash card that you can use
to pay for purchases at participating Tim Hortons stores.  It is the
convenient and easy way to pay!
-Where can I get the Quickpay Tim Card?
The Quickpay Tim Card is currently available at participating Tim Hortons
throughout Canada.  We will be introducing the card in our US stores in the
coming months.
-How do I use my Quickpay Tim Card?
Just ask your server for a Quickpay Tim Card and decide on the amount you
wish to be loaded onto the card. Once your card is loaded, you can swipe it
to pay for purchases both in-store and at the drive thru at participating
locations. Each time you use the Tim Card, the amount of your purchase will
be deducted from the balance remaining. The new balance will be displayed
on the reader.
-What happens if I don’t have enough money on my Quickpay Tim Card to pay
for my purchases?
The balance of your Tim Card can be put towards your purchase and the
remainder can be paid by cash or MasterCard (where accepted).
-Why should I register my Quickpay Tim Card?
By registering the Quickpay Tim Card online at www.timhortons.com, you can
access several additional features of the Tim Card program such as
protecting the balance on your card from loss and theft, reloading your
card with a credit card and viewing your most recent account activity.
-How do I report a lost or stolen Quickpay Tim Card?
If your Tim Card has been registered and is lost or stolen, please call
1-866-TIMCARD (846-2273) immediately. You will need to provide your card
number and answer questions concerning recent activity on your account.
Upon verification, we can freeze your remaining balance and transfer the
remaining balance to a replacement card that will be mailed to you. Please
note that the remaining balance of an unregistered card cannot be replaced
even if we are notified of its loss or theft. At all times, please treat
your card like cash.
-Why do I need to the scratch off the panel on the back of my Quickpay Tim
Card?
By scratching off the coating on the panel, you will reveal a PIN or
personal identification number. This PIN number is an added security
function and is necessary to check your balance and register your card on
our website. If your Card does not have a PIN # or the panel has already
been scratched off, please call 1-866-TIMCARD (846-2273).

-How can I check the balance on my Quickpay Tim Card?
The balance on your Tim Card can be checked anytime at participating
stores, online at www.timhortons.com or by calling 1-866-TIM-CARD
(846-2273). No purchase is necessary to check your balance. To check the
balance online, you will need the 16-digit card number as well as the
scratch-off security PIN number on the back of the card.
-How do I reload my Quickpay Tim Card?
The Tim Card is reloadable by simply presenting your card at a
participating Tim Hortons store and asking the server to reload it with
whatever dollar amount you choose.  If the card is registered, you can also
reload online, at www.timhortons.com, using a credit card. Please note that
if you are reloading online, the minimum dollar value that can be loaded is
$5 and the maximum total value on your card cannot exceed $200.
-What is the auto-reload option on the Tim card website?
If the card is registered, you never have to let your Tim Card balance get
too low by choosing the Auto-Reload option. Simply select the amount to add
to your card, at what frequency you would like your card reloaded and
payment method, and we’ll do the rest. Funds will automatically be added to
your Tim Card each time your balance gets below your pre-set level or at a
specified frequency. Your credit card will then be billed for the amount.
Please note an auto reload transaction can take up to 48 hours for your
card to reload.  Please consider this when setting your Auto-Reload
preferences.
-How do I discontinue the auto-reload feature?
To discontinue the auto-reload feature, please visit www.timhortons.com and
login to disable the feature within 24 hours of the next scheduled reload.
Once the dollar value is loaded, the transaction cannot be reversed.
-I have just set up/updated a credit card for the Auto-Reload function, why
is there a $1.01 charge on my credit card statement?
When you set up/update a credit card for the Auto-Reload function, a
temporary $1.01 authorization is processed to ensure the credit card is
valid for future automatic recharges. This $1.01 authorization is not an
actual charge, but it does temporarily reduce your available credit. The
billing address will be matched against the address the bank has on file
for you. Once the verification is completed, the charge will be reversed.
-What methods of payment are available online to use the reload and
Auto-Reload option?
MasterCard and Visa credit cards are accepted online.
-Does my Quickpay Tim Card expire?
The Tim Card does not have an expiry date, however, if the card has had a
zero balance for a two year period it is deemed inactive and cannot be
used.
-What fees are charged to my Quickpay Tim Card?
No fees are charged to your Tim Card.
-Why is my balance different than I thought?
It's possible that you've forgotten a visit or purchase. You can check your
card's remaining balance at a participating Tim Hortons store, by calling
1-866-TIM-CARD (846-2273) or going online at www.timhortons.com. If your
card is registered you may also view your recent transactions on the
website.
-Will the Quickpay Tim Card replace gift certificates?
Yes. Tim Hortons will be discontinuing the sale of our paper gift
certificates in the coming months. However, we will continue to redeem our
paper gift certificates.
-Can I redeem my card for cash?
The value remaining on a Tim Card may not be redeemed for cash at a Tim
Hortons store unless required by law. However, a refund may be obtained by
mailing a written request for a refund to our head office. This letter must
include the following: name, mailing address, phone number, email address,
the Tim Hortons location where the card was purchased (if available), the
remaining balance on the card as well as the Tim Card itself. Once your
request is received, we will validate the card and card balance and contact
you. The validated refund will be sent in the form of a cheque by mail,
within 4-6 weeks of receipt of your request. Such requests are to be sent
to: Tim Hortons Customer Service, 228 Wyecroft Road, Oakville, Ontario, L6K
3X7.
I have a question that is not listed here. What should I do?
For general questions and inquiries about your Tim Card or Tim Card
account, please call
1-866-TIM-CARD (846-2273).


----------



## Scottish_Mom (12 Nov 2007)

Hi all,
I received a different reply. Basically, my reply says I can purchase paper gift certificates but I must set up an account, must pay by certified cheque for the first round I buy and then I must go to one of their warehouses in Guelph or Kingston (and a few others to choose from but equally far away) to pick up the certificates because they cannot be sent via mail.

Received November 12, 2007 from Tim Hortons:

Thank you for contacting our Head Office regarding your request for Gift
Certificates.   If you local store is not carrying the paper format of Gift
Certificates, please note that they may be directly purchased from us,
corporately.  Please find the information to follow.  If you have any
questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,


Operations Services
The TDL Group Corp.

Frequently Asked Questions – Gift Certificates
General Information
Q. What denominations are Tim Hortons’ gift certificates available in?
A. Our gift certificates come in $5 and $10 booklets. The $5 booklet
contains 2 x $2 certificates and 1 x $1 certificate. The $10 booklet
contains 5 x $2 certificates.

Q. Can I get the gift certificates individually instead of in booklets?
A. We are unable to provide Tim Hortons Gift Certificates individually.
They are pre-printed and pre-packaged at the same time for security
purposes and cannot be separated prior to the customer receiving them.

Q. Are Tim Hortons’ gift certificates available in French?
A.  Tim Hortons Canadian gift certificates are bilingual, and can be
redeemed at any Tim Hortons store in Canada.

Q. Is there an expiry date on Tim Hortons’ gift certificates?
A. Tim Hortons gift certificates issued prior to October 2003 have an
expiry date printed on them. Gift certificates issued subsequent to October
2003 do not have an expiry date on them.

Q. What do I do if I have an expired Tim Hortons gift certificate?
A. Some of the expired gift certificates may still be in circulation. It is
Tim Hortons’ policy that all of our gift certificates are to be honoured at
our stores, regardless of the expiry date. If you have difficulty redeeming
them, please contact us directly.

Q. Are envelopes available for gift giving?
A. Gift certificate envelopes are automatically included (1 envelope per
booklet).

Purchasing Gift Certificates in Canada

Q. I have never bought gift certificates from you through the Corporate
Gift Certificate Program before. How do I get started?
A. New customers will have to be set up with a customer number in our
system before an order can be placed. Please allow 2-3 business days for
set up.

Q. How do I get a customer number?
A. To obtain a customer number, please send the following information to us
by fax to (905) 845-1536 or by e-mail to corpgiftcert@timhortons.com:
- Company/Organization Name
- Company/Organization Address, City, Province, Postal Code
- Telephone Number
- Fax Number
- E-mail Address
- Contact Name

Q. How do I place an order?
A. Once a customer has been set up with a customer number, an order can be
placed by:
- Sending an e-mail to corpgiftcert@timhortons.com
- Sending a fax to (905) 845-1536
- Calling us directly at (905) 339-5572 or 1-800-590-5304, ext. 5572


Q. Can I return any unused gift certificates?
A. All gift certificate sales are final. We will not accept any returns.

Q. Are there any service fees associated with the purchase of Tim Hortons
Gift Certificates?
A. We do not apply any service fees or extra charges. Our gift certificates
are sold at face value and no tax is applicable on them.

Q. Can I pay for Tim Hortons gift certificates by credit card?
A. Unfortunately, we are not able to accept payment by credit card. The
methods of payment are by certified cheque (on the first order only;
subsequent orders can be paid by regular company cheque) or Electronic Fund
Transfer.

Q. Can I get an invoice to generate payment?
A. An Order Confirmation will be sent by fax, e-mail, or regular mail to
facilitate the customer generating a cheque for the purchase amount. This
Order Confirmation must also accompany the payment for timely processing.

Q. Where do I send my payment?
A. The payment and Order Confirmation should be sent to:

Accounting Department – Gift Certificates
The TDL Group Corp.
874 Sinclair Road
Oakville, Ontario, Canada  L6K 2Y1
Telephone: (905) 845-6511

Q. What is the turnaround time?
A. Payment must be received before we can release the gift certificates. In
general, the gift certificates can be ready 24-48 hours after payment is
received.

Q. How do I get the gift certificates?
A. After we have confirmed that the payment was received, customers can go
to the closest Tim Hortons warehouse to pick up their order.

Q. Where are your warehouses located?
A. Tim Hortons has warehouses in Guelph, Ontario; Kingston, Ontario;
Debert, Nova Scotia; Calgary, Alberta; and Langley, British Columbia.

Q. Can I drop off the payment and pick up the gift certificates at the same
time?
A. Please note that our Accounting Department must receive payment at least
24 hours prior to the pick up of the order. The warehouse will not prepare
the order until the payment is received, and a minimum of 24 hours lead
time is required.

Q. Can I have the gift certificates shipped to me?
A. We cannot ship the gift certificates. They are considered cash
instruments, and therefore are not insurable by regular mail or overnight
courier companies. Our policy is that customers must come themselves, send
a representative, or send a secure delivery service that will insure cash
shipments to our warehouse to pick up the gift certificates.


----------



## GAP (12 Nov 2007)

Was it the same person replying? If so, they don't seem to have their act together. 

Following "Corporate Policy" blindly.....as far as I am concerned Tim Hortons can go take a hike!!


----------



## armyvern (12 Nov 2007)

Here's the one that I just sent:



> Good morning,
> 
> In reveiwing this thread running on Army.ca, http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67749.0/topicseen.html, I've become aware of an issue that concerns me regarding the non-availability of Tim Horton's Gift Certificates.
> 
> ...


----------



## geo (12 Nov 2007)

1.  Considering that Green Beans has it's own smart card in use at KAF, it's not a question about technology.

2.  Given that the KAF Tim Horton franchise is operated by Personnel services, should we not be after PSP's a$$ to get the electronic terminals in place?

It's quite possible that we have been barking up the wrong tree - IMHO


----------



## Journeyman (12 Nov 2007)

Excellent !

The Kandahar Timmies line-up isn't slow enough already, having to explain to the Bulgarian (or worse, the guy speaking incomprehensible English - aka Scottish) what a Timbit is....now we'll have to wait while they figure out electronic cards.

 >


----------



## geo (12 Nov 2007)

Journeyman,
As I indicated already, Green Beans already uses the darned thing... so it shouldn't be too hard to train the foreign workers who stand behind the counter.

Also, methinks that money is pretty straight forward 0 if they haven't gotten the hand of things by now... it won't take long.


----------



## Journeyman (12 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Journeyman,
> As I indicated already, Green Beans already uses the darned thing... so it shouldn't be too hard to train the foreign workers who stand behind the counter.


The workers aren't the problem; it's the customers. And it's often the same issue as anywhere else -- "let's see, I'll have 3 large...no medium...regular....7 ice capachino....no 6....did I say 3 large? I meant 2 large and a medium....and one is a double double......." - - - only in an accent that's incomprehensible to the otherwise wonderful, usually bilingual, Timmies staff.


----------



## aesop081 (12 Nov 2007)

woodys girl said:
			
		

> And whats with Timmy's taking M/C....all you need to do is swipe your own card if the order is 25 dollars or under....something wrong with that picture....



What exactly is it that is wrong ?

Ever been to an airport long-term parking ? Taken BC ferries ?

Lots of places nowadays you just swipe your card and thats it.


----------



## geo (12 Nov 2007)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The workers aren't the problem; it's the customers. And it's often the same issue as anywhere else -- "let's see, I'll have 3 large...no medium...regular....7 ice capachino....no 6....did I say 3 large? I meant 2 large and a medium....and one is a double double......." - - - only in an accent that's incomprehensible to the otherwise wonderful, usually bilingual, Timmies staff.



Ahhh... Check!


----------



## woodys girl (13 Nov 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> What exactly is it that is wrong ?
> 
> Ever been to an airport long-term parking ? Taken BC ferries ?
> 
> Lots of places nowadays you just swipe your card and thats it.




What's wrong with that is........how easy it is for someone to use a stolen credit card.
I was referring to Timmy's because that is the topic....and no I have not taken BC ferries ....I hear its beautiful out there though, so maybe I need to take a trip


----------



## Harris (13 Nov 2007)

woodys girl said:
			
		

> What's wrong with that is........how easy it is for someone to use a stolen credit card.



That's why they limit it to a small amount.  So even if your card is stolen, they can't get a ton of $ off of it.  That of course assumes you report it stolen in a timely manner.  Nearly every airport I've been to has kiosks, etc that just swipe them with no PIN or signature.  I bought a $1.50 hot dog on my credit cad once as I hadn't gotten US cash yet and they wouldn't accept Canadian.


----------



## geo (13 Nov 2007)

woodys girl said:
			
		

> What's wrong with that is........how easy it is for someone to use a stolen credit card.


City of Montreal parking meters will accept the Credit Cards but won't accept the Debit Cards.
Just punch in where you are parked, swipe the card & press "MAX" = 6$ charge without any PIN or verification


----------



## woodys girl (13 Nov 2007)

See what happens when you're a cops wife.....always thinking negative lol 

Anyways......the cards are a great thing and very convenient.

Woody's Girl


----------



## exgunnertdo (13 Nov 2007)

woodys girl said:
			
		

> What's wrong with that is........how easy it is for someone to use a stolen credit card.



I had my purse stolen a few years back, and in the two hours it took me to file a police report and get home to call the credit card companies, the thieves had racked up a couple of hundred bucks at convenience stores and gas bars (cigarettes, likely).  I don't think your average credit card thief is going to head to Timmies to get a double double and a dozen donuts for his buddies !  Pretty low risk, I think.  Even a signature isn't a help - I saw one of the credit card slips the theives "signed."  He didn't even sign my name, let alone try to make it look like my signature.  Sorry for the hijack.


----------



## woodys girl (13 Nov 2007)

exgunnertdo said:
			
		

> I  I don't think your average credit card thief is going to head to Timmies to get a double double and a dozen donuts for his buddies !



LMAO  cute!


----------



## 211RadOp (13 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Journeyman,
> As I indicated already, Green Beans already uses the darned thing... so it shouldn't be too hard to train the foreign workers who stand behind the counter...



Actually Geo, all who work behind the Timmies counter are Canadian PSP employees. Some of them work for TDL back here.


----------



## Greymatters (13 Nov 2007)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The workers aren't the problem; it's the customers. And it's often the same issue as anywhere else -- "let's see, I'll have 3 large...no medium...regular....7 ice capachino....no 6....did I say 3 large? I meant 2 large and a medium....and one is a double double......." - - - only in an accent that's incomprehensible to the otherwise wonderful, usually bilingual, Timmies staff.



Amazing what a pencil and a piece of paper can solve...

Also sounds like they need two seperate lineups - one for gophers making mass orders for thei local HQ, and one for individuals, possibly with a 'five items or less' sign over top...


----------



## armyvern (13 Nov 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> ...
> Also sounds like they need two seperate lineups - one for gophers making mass orders for thei local HQ, and one for individuals, possibly with a 'five items or less' sign over top...


The above is not only applicable to KAF -- you should see the line-ups at the 3 Timmies in this town when courses hit them!!


----------



## Nfld Sapper (13 Nov 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> The above is not only applicable to KAF -- you should see the line-ups at the 3 Timmies in this town when courses hit them!!



LOL or when all us Incremental Staff shows up....


----------



## Strike (13 Nov 2007)

So I was able to get the number for the place in Kingston where one can order the paper gift certificates.  I was told that they will generally only consider orders of 200 booklets or more.  So I'd suggest that people talk to their local MFRCs and Legions (Ladies Aux tends to handle the coffee for KAF donations) and see about them getting orders in.  Send me a PM if you want the Kingston number.

Keep in mind I may not reply right away so be patient.


----------



## GAP (20 Nov 2007)

How generals' order for 'Timmy's in the Stan' caused a stir
Setting up iconic eatery in Kandahar worried military planners
Mike Blanchfield and Andrew Mayeda, The Ottawa Citizen Published: Tuesday, November 20, 2007
Article Link

The top generals had spoken: Tim Hortons coffee would be brought to Canadian troops in Kandahar without fail.

But, as military documents reveal, some Defence Department planners charged with executing that order had concerns about the project, including whether equipment destined for soldiers in Afghanistan might have to take a back seat to the chain's supplies, not to mention whether other food firms would complain about favouritism toward the iconic coffee empire.

Coffee: Tim Hortons franchise thrives alongside Pizza Hut and Burger King

Continued from page a1

The Forces ultimately succeeded in setting up a Tim Hortons franchise at Kandahar Airfield last year, but not before those issues were put to rest.

On March 14, 2006, as Prime Minister Stephen Harper was holding his historic first meeting with Hamid Karzai at the presidential palace in Kabul, Canadian military planners met in Ottawa to discuss how to set up a "Timmy's" in "the Stan."

As one top officer said in an e-mail summarizing that meeting: "It is not a question of IF, it is WHEN will Timmy's be in theatre."

That was because Gen. Rick Hillier, the chief of defence staff, had already publicly declared his intention to bring a Tim Hortons franchise to Kandahar during a keynote speech to a 450-member military audience in Ottawa. He said it would serve as a morale booster to soldiers on the front lines.

"There's nothing more Canadian than sipping a double double in Kandahar Airfield while you're watching a hockey game," Gen. Hillier told the Conference of Defence Associations on Feb. 23, 2006.

Five days later, Gen. Hillier's Afghanistan commander, Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, was asked by a CTV reporter what he thought about the idea: "Tim Hortons better get its ass over here, as far as I'm concerned."
More on link


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## navymich (20 Nov 2007)

> The Canadian military delivers the company's supplies to the base franchise where Canadian soldiers and their allies enjoy the fare at prices comparable to those back home. For its part, the company reinvests any profits in the Canadian Forces morale and welfare programs.



For those that have been over, how comparable are the prices, still reasonable or quite jacked up?

Has anybody seen the figures or heard any amounts as to what kind of monies have been reinvested?


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## Dissident (20 Nov 2007)

Prices were comparable, but no larger size, ie extra large coffee or large icecaps.


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## PuckChaser (20 Nov 2007)

Ice Cap is 2.25 USD, large double double is something like 1.50 USD.

I don't drink coffee, only IceCaps, so maybe someone can fill it what the prices are like in Canada?


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## tabernac (20 Nov 2007)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> Ice Cap is 2.25 USD, large double double is something like 1.50 USD.
> I don't drink coffee, only IceCaps, so maybe someone can fill it what the prices are like in Canada?



I had a large double double the other day and it rang in at 1.47$ I believe. CAD of course. What exactly does the KAF Timmies offer?


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## JesseWZ (20 Nov 2007)

Large Icecap is 3.38 Canadian. Medium is something like 2.50ish I can't recall the small.


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## Jarnhamar (21 Nov 2007)

I recall a limit having to be put on donut orders. I remember Brits sitting beside Timmie's swallowing dozens of donuts in a sitting.

I also remember an American woman ordering 108 double double coffee's
'Tim Horton's Employee'  Did you order ahead?
'American Soldier' Was I supposed to?


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2007)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> Ice Cap is 2.25 USD, large double double is something like 1.50 USD.
> 
> I don't drink coffee, only IceCaps, so maybe someone can fill it what the prices are like in Canada?



It is snowing here in Ottawa, so I am not sure what an Ice Cap is, but it is rather expensive for a watered down drink and Ontario prices are probably quite comparable in price to what you are paying.  A Large DD in Ottawa is $1.39.

That is something I have never figured out.  I paid $1.35 for a Large DD in Ontario in 2005, and that included PST and GST; yet in Alberta that same year I was paying $1.40 with only PST.


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## 54/102 CEF (21 Nov 2007)

Isn`t our National Icon actually an American Company?


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## navymich (21 Nov 2007)

54/102 CEF said:
			
		

> Isn`t our National Icon actually an American Company?



According to their  website, no.  It started in Hamilton, ON.  You might be thinking American because of when it merged with Wendy's?


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## GAP (21 Nov 2007)

It is presently owned by Wendys, but they are trying to sell it off.


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## Greymatters (21 Nov 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It is snowing here in Ottawa, so I am not sure what an Ice Cap is, but it is rather expensive for a watered down drink and Ontario prices are probably quite comparable in price to what you are paying.  A Large DD in Ottawa is $1.39.
> 
> That is something I have never figured out.  I paid $1.35 for a Large DD in Ontario in 2005, and that included PST and GST; yet in Alberta that same year I was paying $1.40 with only PST.



A large DD in BC is $1.49 with GST and PST...


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## geo (21 Nov 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> It is presently owned by Wendys, but they are trying to sell it off.



As of 15 sept 2006 Wendy's international distributed the balance of Tim Horton Shares to shareholders on record as a special dividend (that was paid out on 29 sept 2006)

They are on their own now.  As their one and only head office is in Canada, they are 100% Canadian once again.

http://argent.canoe.com/infos/etatsunis/archives/2006/09/20060901-090915.html


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## GAP (21 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> As of 15 sept 2006 Wendy's international distributed the balance of Tim Horton Shares to shareholders on record as a special dividend (that was paid out on 29 sept 2006)
> 
> They are on their own now.  As their one and only head office is in Canada, they are 100% Canadian once again.
> 
> http://argent.canoe.com/infos/etatsunis/archives/2006/09/20060901-090915.html



I did not know that...thanks..


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## NL_engineer (21 Nov 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> The above is not only applicable to KAF -- you should see the line-ups at the 3 Timmies in this town when courses hit them!!



Or just about any morning or coffee break


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## Semper Fidelis (21 Nov 2007)

An Extra Large DD here in Petawawa is $1.58 
So I think we are on PAR


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Nov 2007)

On the Rock an XL DD is 1.77


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## BinRat55 (22 Nov 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Amazing what a pencil and a piece of paper can solve...
> 
> Also sounds like they need two seperate lineups - one for gophers making mass orders for thei local HQ, and one for individuals, possibly with a 'five items or less' sign over top...



For those who have been to Borden, you'll know this is the case there for the one up at the Canex.  When I instructed there, we used to get our classroom orders and actually fax it to them.  Pop up 30 mins later and go over to the side (towards the back) 5 mins later, all 30 coffees are ready to go.  I've been in line at that Timmies and been wrapped right around the store.  Coffee in less than 10 min.  Drive through?  Amazing, but I don't think i've waited longer than 10 min there either!!  Hands down, the best Tim's i've ever been to.  And they never f%^#$@ up my order ONCE!!!


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## Greymatters (23 Nov 2007)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Coffee in less than 10 min.  Drive through?  Amazing, but I don't think i've waited longer than 10 min there either!!  Hands down, the best Tim's i've ever been to.  And they never f%^#$@ up my order ONCE!!!



The one in Kingston used to be pretty fast as well.  Those two place could definately give lessons to other locations...


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## 211RadOp (23 Nov 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> The one in Kingston used to be pretty fast as well.  Those two place could definately give lessons to other locations...



Yes the Kingston one (I assume you are talking about the one in Canex and not the other 13 in town) is fast, but they do tend to mess up the orders. I don't know how many DD I've gotten there, and I drink my coffee black. The worst times to hit it are 0700-0730 and 0830-0930 as the line ups at the drive thru and counter are long.


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## geo (23 Nov 2007)

211.... during "rush hour" at the drive thru, TH probably has tough enough a time keeping the coffe cups poured for the next order.  By making all of em DDs they keep the production line rolling & the clients can get to work on time.  Stopping the production line to slip in a Black coffee would screw everything up.... IMHO


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## 211RadOp (23 Nov 2007)

The comments about the busy times was not a slam on my part, just for information. I am sorry if it came across that way. I actually have respect for the people who work there (my wife being one) for the crap they have to put up with by abnoxious customers who they still have to serve.

As for my orders, I usually go to the counter rather than drive thru and have been there at off peak times (it is very dead in there in the eves) and have gotten DD then as well. To me that is the person behind the counter not really paying attention.


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## geo (23 Nov 2007)

211...
Maybe she knows you, doesn't like you AND doing it on purpose  >

Else - she's got it in her mind that all military types drink their coffee "NATO Standard"   :warstory:


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## Dirt Digger (24 Nov 2007)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> The comments about the busy times was not a slam on my part, just for information. I am sorry if it came across that way. I actually have respect for the people who work there (my wife being one) for the crap they have to put up with by abnoxious customers who they still have to serve.



Facebook has a group entitled, "Tim Hortons Rules of Ordering and More".   It's actually a pretty good list....they have a section on "worst customers" as well.  Looks like they get as pissed off as I do when someone tries to order lunch for 12 at the drive through window.


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## TN2IC (24 Nov 2007)

Dirt Digger said:
			
		

> Facebook has a group entitled, "Tim Hortons Rules of Ordering and More".   It's actually a pretty good list....they have a section on "worst customers" as well.  Looks like they get as pissed off as I do when someone tries to order lunch for 12 at the drive through window.




It drives me crazy when someone orders a meal at the drive thru instead of coffee/donut. It's a coffee shop, not Rotten Ronies!  ;D


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## Trooper Hale (25 Dec 2007)

I still find the idea of having a drive through at a coffee shop amazing. In Australia its cutting edge to have a drive through at Hungry Jacks. Hell, we dont even have anything like Timmies unless you count Starbucks and lets face it, no one does.
I should open up a franchise here, i'd be a dead cert to get all the Canadian tourists if nothing else!

If i'm ever in Kandahar, Tim Hortons will be one of my first places to visit. I miss its cheap tea and donuts.


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## geo (25 Dec 2007)

Canada / Timmies......

There's no place like home!

Have a good one Hale.

CHIMO!


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## gaspasser (27 Dec 2007)

Haleyest of Hales! said:
			
		

> I still find the idea of having a drive through at a coffee shop amazing. In Australia its cutting edge to have a drive through at Hungry Jacks. Hell, we dont even have anything like Timmies unless you count Starbucks and lets face it, no one does.
> I should open up a franchise here, i'd be a dead cert to get all the Canadian tourists if nothing else!
> If i'm ever in Kandahar, Tim Hortons will be one of my first places to visit. I miss its cheap tea and donuts.



OI !  That's my idea for after I retire from the CF...I've already got a bunch hooked on Tims   ^-^
I figure I'll make my millions within a week...LOL
Either that, or put one in the UAE... 
Merry Christmas..BYTD


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## Trinity (25 Jan 2008)

I purchased $300.00 worth of certificates today.  Quite easy and TDL was quite accommodating.

If anyone wants to do this I highly recommend it.  Or if you don't want to go through the process 
as I have a customer number I'll do it for you.

If anyone wants to donate I'm happy to buy and send more.


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## karl28 (25 Jan 2008)

BYT Driver 

   If you want to make money with Timies and the troops. Open one at CFB Wainright  as far as I know they still don't have one just place it beside the mess you will make a killing with it there .


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## Blakey (10 Feb 2008)

^

Tim Hortons
2710 13th Ave
Wainwright,AB P9W 0A1 CA
Tel: (780) 842-9154


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## George Wallace (10 Feb 2008)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> ^
> 
> Tim Hortons
> 2710 13th Ave
> ...



Something tells me that in a year or two a second location will pop up closer to Buffalo Rd.


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## Blakey (10 Feb 2008)

George, I would be inclined to agree. Now we just have to work on the "Black Hole" that we like to call Shilo/Sprucewoods, Forbidden Flavours just doesn't cut it IMO and the prices... :


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## Leafs fan (18 Feb 2008)

Hello all, first time poster just looking for a little info.  have a family member deploying to A-stan in the near future and all the rest of us are giving him a little family send off. I was asked to find out if the Tim Hortons on the base in A-stan accepts the Tim card for payment. We were thinking of Sending our soldier off with a card that he can use at his pleasure and we can top up on-line from time to time back here in safe old Canada. Thanks for your reply in advance.


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## Dissident (18 Feb 2008)

Last I heard, no. 

Some Tim Hortons were selling gift certificates until they ran out. You could try the Tim Horton head office?


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## geo (18 Feb 2008)

Smart cards don't work in Afghanistan... Still using paper gift certificates.  READ this thread!  It's all explained


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## Trinity (18 Feb 2008)

I'll PM you the info.  I did it a few weeks ago.


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## Dissident (18 Feb 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> READ this thread!  It's all explained



The thread is 31 pages long, I would not be very inclined to sift through it to find that info. It is understandable that someone would ask the question.


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## George Wallace (18 Feb 2008)

Dissident said:
			
		

> The thread is 31 pages long, I would not be very inclined to sift through it to find that info. It is understandable that someone would ask the question.



Such attitude.  Total lack of inititative on your part.  If people didn't add useless posts so often, it wouldn't have become 31 plus pages.


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## Leafs fan (18 Feb 2008)

sorry didn't think it was a useless question. Tried to read the first few pages ,31 for a simple answer  ???. thanks to those who responded.


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## George Wallace (19 Feb 2008)

Leafs fan said:
			
		

> sorry didn't think it was a useless question. Tried to read the first few pages ,31 for a simple answer  ???. thanks to those who responded.



It wasn't a useless question; just one that had been answered before.


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## aesop081 (19 Feb 2008)

Dissident said:
			
		

> The thread is 31 pages long, I would not be very inclined to sift through it to find that info. It is understandable that someone would ask the question.




On April 1st, 2008 all army.ca/ milnet.ca threads will be deleted, we're starting over. Why have all this here if people are too f****g lazy to read the info already posted.

 :


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## Dissident (19 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Such attitude.  Total lack of inititative on your part.  If people didn't add useless posts so often, it wouldn't have become 31 plus pages.



Lack of initiative? Attitude?

Anyways. Maybe a sticky should be made that explains how best get gift certificates to the troops.

I though this site was here to help. Here we have someone who wants to help deployed troops by getting them some Tims certificate and the answer we have for them is:"Duh! You should search through the 31 pages before, the answer is right there!"

Thank you to Trinity for PMing the info.


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## aesop081 (19 Feb 2008)

Dissident said:
			
		

> I though this site was here to help. Here we have someone who wants to help deployed troops by getting them some Tims certificate and the answer we have for them is:"Duh! You should search through the 31 pages before, the answer is right there!"



You done now ?

Milnet.ca staff


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## Leafs fan (19 Feb 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> On April 1st, 2008 all army.ca/ milnet.ca threads will be deleted, we're starting over. Why have all this here if people are too f****g lazy to read the info already posted.
> 
> :




hey, i admit i am too lazy too search through the whole thread for the info, but this thead is two years old, I wanted up to date info,times change. At least I used the search function to find an appropriate thread.


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## Roy Harding (19 Feb 2008)

Actually - this board exists solely for the amusement of the owner - Mr. Bobbitt.

The fact that you find information of use to you here is a side-effect, NOT it's primary reason for being.

You can find MORE information of use to you by using the Search function - or you can remain merely amusing.  Your call.

Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff


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## tomahawk6 (4 Mar 2008)

Tim Horton pic's found on the net.


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## tomahawk6 (4 Mar 2008)




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## geo (4 Mar 2008)

Some great pics T6... Thank you!


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## mariomike (4 Feb 2009)

"Share A Cup With A Brave Canuck!" aims to give each of the members of the Canadian Forces serving in Afghanistan a $10.00 "Tim Card", during the Chrstmas season, as an expression of appreciation from Toronto EMS.  The Tim Cards are redeemed at the Kandahar FOB outlet of Tim Horton's.
We hope to remind our troops that we are thinking of them and the sacrifice that they, and their families, are making on our behalf so very far away from their homes and loved ones. 
This is a story about a young lady who spent six months working at the Kandahar Tim Horton's. 
Perhaps you have already read it.
..............................................................................
Jennifer Jones spent six months working at the Kandahar Tim Hortons.  Here's how her stint in war-torn Afghanistan gave her a greater appreciation for our soldiers - and our country.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My alarm goes off just before 5 a.m.  I pull on my bathrobe, pad down the hallway and open the plywood door to a gravel road and a line of large rounded tents surrounded by concrete highway dividers.  The sun is already up, and hundreds of birds have congregated in the few trees to bid the morning welcome with their cheerful chatter.  It is almost cool, but the promise of 50-degree heat hangs in the air.

I walk over sand and gravel to the shower trailer. This early in the morning I have the place to myself, which doesn't happen often.  The trailer is ripe with the smells of chlorine and disinfectant, and I hurry back to my tent where I'm living for six months and change into my uniform. I put on sand-coloured pants and a shirt, my name tag and a desert camouflage hat.  As I arrive at work, there's already a lineup, so I hustle in the side door.  My coworkers are bustling about, making coffee and stocking cups.  I grab a hairnet, put it on under my cap and take my place as the doors open. 

Not an average job
This is no ordinary Tim Hortons. I work on the Kandahar military base in Afghanistan. The store is roughly in the middle of the base.  In the centre is a large sand-and-gravel field where the Americans play football and the Brits play cricket.  There's a ball hockey rink right outside our store where we watch the Canadian troops play enthusiastic games of hockey in the sweltering heat.  Other food outlets and stores line two sides of the boardwalk in the sand.

The store is actually a trailer and in the mornings, with six people behind the counter, it's a busy place.  We rush about in a practiced ballet of coffee and doughnuts, calling out orders and dodging the bakers as they come to fill up the showcase.  Sometimes I marvel that we don't crash into one another. 

The usual
We can often tell what someone will order just by looking at the uniform. The Canadian troops usually just want a double-double, known as a NATO Standard over here.  Sometimes we tempt them into an apple fritter. The Americans prefer honey dips with a regular coffee, whereas the Brits can't turn down a Boston cream or a Canadian maple.  They're also partial to French vanilla cappuccinos.  When the cappuccino machine is temporarily out of service, we almost have a mutiny on our hands. "No French vanilla?" a group of four British soldiers gasp and moan. "What are we supposed to do?" "What will you do when you go home?"  I ask.  "You'll have to start a franchise in Sussex." "Oh, we'll just order the French vanilla online then."  They grin and buy two cans of the mix to tide them over. I enjoy seeing our regulars as well as the new faces that arrive all the time.

"Good mornin', m'love!  And how're you today?" one of the older soldiers from Newfoundland lilts.  His face is tanned and his blue eyes sparkle as he smiles.  I return the smile and say, "Just great! And you?" "Oh, livin' the dream," he laughs and orders his morning coffee.  I know he'll be back three or four more times before the day's end.

The Tim Hortons caps we wear are perhaps the most in demand. "Can I have six double-doubles and a hat?" "How much for your hat, darlin'?" We hear these questions all day long.  Conversation is mostly casual and lighthearted. "Make my coffee better than his," one soldier jokes, pointing to his friend. "Give him the old stuff.."

"Are you still here?  I thought you'd be home by now!  When do they let you out?" 'We're prone to rocket attacks' Of course, we're the only Tim Hortons where the majority of customers come in fully armed.  But by now I'm used to the sight of a soldier with a rifle in one hand and a coffee in the other.  We're also prone to rocket attacks on the base, and when the alarm sounds, we have to get all the customers out of the store and sit in the back until the all clear sounds.  There's a heavy thud, a feeling of impact and then the eerie wail of an old air-raid siren. The signal to get to a bunker, or to the back of the store, if I'm working.

The first time I experienced this I wasn't really scared, but it gave a note of seriousness to my job that hadn't been there before.  We sat on the floor and waited until the all-clear alarm went off like a British police siren.

Some days are harder
Because of the hot weather, we make a lot of iced cappuccinos, and I often dance a little when I make them.  I sway back and forth, moving my hips to the sound of the mixer.  I tell the customers it tastes better that way. It never fails to get a smile.

There are days when it's hard to be upbeat, though.  We've had six ramp ceremonies since I've been here.  A ramp ceremony is when we send soldiers home in the very way we don't want to - in a coffin.  It's a very formal event, with the troops marching out in formation.  Those of us with the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency are put in our own ranks.  We march behind our troops and take our place on the tarmac in front of the plane that will fly the bodies home.  Other than the sound of marching feet, all is silent. A brief service is usually conducted by the padre, a military minister.  We pray, then the troops salute the caskets draped in Canadian flags, which are carried high on the shoulders of other soldiers. A bagpiper follows behind. I don't think I'll ever hear the sound of bagpipes again without remembering these ceremonies. Sometimes I cry, a little - for lives lost, and for families I've never met.

When we get back to work the mood is somber; soldiers come in with grief on their faces.  They give their order quietly, avoiding eye contact.  I can sense that tears are close for them.  It can be hard to speak in those moments.  Yet most of the soldiers appreciate our smiles and jokes.  When we celebrate life, it helps us all deal with death a little easier. In need of a change, I applied for this job in August 2006.  I was wrapping up a contract job with an arts festival in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ont., processing donations and sending out membership packages. I was looking for something different to do with my life; something that would feel like I was helping out a larger cause.  I didn't think I would get this job.

I'm 35, and although I'm not married and don't have children, I assumed I'd be bypassed in favour of younger adventurers.  But I found a range of ages and experiences when I was accepted into the two-week training course.  One of my coworkers, Chantal, 24, from Timmins, Ont., signed up because her husband is a soldier here and she wanted to support him and their friends who are serving in this mission.

We work long hours, and there are no days off.  By the end of a shift, I'm tired as I walk back to my tent.  My little room is home, for now, and though it's only the size of small car garage, it's comfortable.  I have a bedsheet for a door and a curving tent wall above my head.  When it rains hard, as it sometimes does, the tent often leaks.

Missing home
I miss simple things, like having a bathroom in the same building as my bedroom and walls that go all the way up to the ceiling.  I miss picking berries and making pies and jam.  I have a friend who recently died of cancer, and I wish I could have visited her, or at least called her more easily and frequently.  I have even missed winter.  But at night in Kandahar, I look up and see the same familiar constellations that hang over the sky in my hometown of Thunder Bay, Ont., and I know I'll be back there before long. I rest easy knowing that my home is where roadside bombings and landmines are unheard of.  I have a huge appreciation for Canada - I always did - but this experience is magnifying it.

Making a difference
This job has given me more patience and shown that I can live through difficult circumstances with a smile on my face.  I came here with very little understanding of the military culture, and I will leave knowing that our soldiers are proud to serve us this far from home; they want to make the world better for their own families and their country.
For the soldiers, being able to feel normal by ordering "the usual" helps make their tour more bearable.  Just the other day, a soldier told me, "If it weren't for this place, I'd have gone crazy by now."  So when a young soldier comes in and gives me a thankful grin because he can finally get an iced cappuccino after six weeks out in the desert, I feel that, even by just serving a coffee, I can make a difference.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Jones worked at Tim Hortons in Kandahar for six months.  When she wrote this essay, she was a month away from returning home.


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## Bzzliteyr (4 Feb 2009)

Darn, I think I've got something in my eye... 

Some great reminders of being over there.  I really miss that place.  Kudos to whoever implemented that whole Timmies is a war zone thing.


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## Marshall (4 Feb 2009)

Very nice   I am sure every caffeine craving soldier over there appreciates them. I know I would ha.


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## PMedMoe (4 Feb 2009)

That was a very well-written piece.  Good for her and all the other civilian workers!


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## Harley Sailor (4 Feb 2009)

From the navy point of view there is nothing like a Tim's after a long trip away.  A four hour fuel stop in St Johns  brings on a lot of Timmi es.  I can well imagine how thank full the soldiers are coming back on base and being able to grab a Tims.  Bravo Zolo to all involved in getting it to them.


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## simysmom99 (4 Feb 2009)

I have a good friend who served at Timmies in Afghanistan as well.  Her husband is a soldier too and she wanted the experience.  She loved it!  I have a great amount of respect for our civvies who go and serve overseas.  Every bit counts and helps.


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## geo (4 Feb 2009)

BZ to the staff of Timmies at KAF and all those Timmies near our military bases everywhere.

BZ to Jennifer Jones for her great article.  Should be required reading by everyone NOT in the military


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## CountDC (4 Feb 2009)

Great writing.  Not only does it give the human factor to our troops and allies there, it also gives the human factor to these people that put thier lifes on the line so our brave troops can have a little bit of the home comfort.

I agree geo except think you should have stopped at "by everyone" - in or out of the military this would be good for all to read.


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## theoldyoungguy (4 Feb 2009)

I only had the opportunity to grab a timmies 4 times throughout my tour and it was always a huge morale boost, regardless if it was +50C that coffee went down like ice cold water after a long patrol.


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## catalyst (5 Feb 2009)

Glad y'all appreciate it - hopefully as much as I love working there  (even if you might end up with the bottom half of a cinamon raison baeel and the top half of an everything - oops (my first day). 

The looks on people's faces as they get their double doubles (30 of them sometimes!) is great - and its always fun to "play" with those who are new to Tim Hortons. Evertying she said in the article was true - although the Americans seem to like black or hot chocolate and you can't forget the dutch and their French Vanillas and rasbery donuts. And the brits who get me to wrap each donut so they can bring it home to the UK

Its non stop, but I love it 

And the hat goes for 5k (apparently somebody offered a girl that). 

- Mich
(works at Timmies right now).


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## vonGarvin (5 Feb 2009)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> Glad y'all appreciate it - hopefully as much as I love working there  (even if you might end up with the bottom half of a cinamon raison baeel and the top half of an everything - oops (my first day).
> 
> The looks on people's faces as they get their double doubles (30 of them sometimes!) is great - and its always fun to "play" with those who are new to Tim Hortons. Evertying she said in the article was true - although the Americans seem to like black or hot chocolate and you can't forget the dutch and their French Vanillas and rasbery donuts. And the brits who get me to wrap each donut so they can bring it home to the UK
> 
> ...


Hi Mich!  I'll be by tomorrow!  2 Double Doubles, please.  Probably around 7:30 or shortly thereafter.  And no, I won't need a cap!  I'll let you know by saying "I ordered by internet last night!"  LOL

(thank you for working here for us)
MR


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## The Bread Guy (24 Nov 2011)

Bumped to mention the coming demise of the chain's SW Asian outlet....


> After five years of serving 2.5 million customers from more than 37 different nationalities, the Tim Hortons outlet at the Canadian Forces operations base in Kandahar, Afghanistan will be closing at the end of this month, as most Canadian troops withdraw from Kandahar.
> 
> "It has been an absolute privilege and honour for Tim Hortons to be associated with the military and bring a little taste of home to the brave Canadian soldiers serving overseas," said Paul House, Executive Chairman, President and CEO, Tim Hortons. "We are flattered that so many troops from different nations also made Tim Hortons a part of their everyday routine."
> 
> ...


Company news release, 24 Nov 11

More from QMI/Sun Media, Reuters, the _Globe & Mail_, Postmedia News, CBC.ca and the _Toronto Star_.


----------



## jollyjacktar (24 Nov 2011)

Be a lot of sad faces when that closes for the last time.  At least for those folks who will be there in KAF they'll still have the NAFFI for good coffee.  Loved that NAFFI...


----------



## mariomike (24 Nov 2011)

"Now that our Forces are officially out of Afghanistan (let us not forget those remaining in Kabul in a non-combat training role until 2014); and the fact that Tim Horton’s Kandahar has packed up their Tim Bits to come back home, our programme will be taking on a new way of supporting our troops being deployed all over the world!  Stay tuned!!!":
http://shareacup.ca/welcome/


----------



## Canadian.Trucker (24 Nov 2011)

I still remember rolling in to get an Iced Cappuccino covered in dust and tasting that sweet sugary coldness... good times.


----------



## buzgo (24 Nov 2011)

When I was last in KAF, earlier this year, there was talk of opening Tim's in Kabul. I think they had even interviewed people for the jobs. Anyone know anything about this?


----------



## armyvern (24 Nov 2011)

signalsguy said:
			
		

> When I was last in KAF, earlier this year, there was talk of opening Tim's in Kabul. I think they had even interviewed people for the jobs. Anyone know anything about this?



Maybe they will open one up there, but it won't be done with the assets from here ... We are down to coffee only left (the Americans, Brits and UAE hate that there's no donuts/cookies left; we had them addicted too); most of the assets have been marked for sale or disposal via destruction and they are all pre-processed - we've got bar code labels all over everything!

Timmies will close on 30 November as per (and right on) schedule.

Crap!! And today, I am at single digits!! 9 and a wakey ...  ;D


----------



## vonGarvin (25 Nov 2011)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Crap!! And today, I am at single digits!! 9 and a wakey caution ...  ;D



There, fixed that for you ;D

(Congrats!!!!!)


----------



## a_majoor (25 Nov 2011)

Any bets on a global explosion of Timmies franchises in England, Romania, the Netherlands, Denmark, Australia....


----------



## The Bread Guy (26 Nov 2011)

Conservative MP Leon Benoit (Vegreville-Wainwright) says "buh-bye" to Tim's in Kandahar in the House of Comons:  





> Mr. Speaker, a piece of home for Canadians serving in Afghanistan is now coming home. The Tim Hortons outlet at Kandahar airfield is closing after boosting soldiers' spirits for over five years. Civilian personnel hired by the Canadian Forces poured over four million coffees and half a million iced capps and served over three million doughnuts. Many of these civilians did multiple tours in Afghanistan. The Tim Hortons on base provided a meeting place for soldiers from all nations. It was a place to sip on some coffee and have some good conversation. For many, it was a home away from home. How many Canadians know this: all the proceeds from the Kandahar Tim Hortons went to support our troops and their families. We salute and thank Tim Hortons for its support of our men and women in uniform. We salute and thank the civilian personnel whose commitment made life a little easier for those for serve. We salute and thank our brave men and women of the Canadian Forces who answer the call to duty each and every day.


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## The Bread Guy (28 Nov 2011)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Any bets on a global explosion of Timmies franchises in England, Romania, the Netherlands, Denmark, Australia....


Already one in Fort Knox, KY
http://www.timhortons.com/us/en/about/2874.html



			
				signalsguy said:
			
		

> When I was last in KAF, earlier this year, there was talk of opening Tim's in Kabul. I think they had even interviewed people for the jobs. Anyone know anything about this?


If the CBC got it right when talking to Tim Hortons officials, a reporter paraphrased the coffee chain on a report this morning saying they'd consider setting up a Kabul location if asked.  Let the tea leaf reading begin....


----------



## armyvern (28 Nov 2011)

Ahhhh, Timmies. I have my 0600hrs coffee in my hands right now ... and shall attempt to be the near the end of the line tonight when it shuts it's doors for good.

I was successful in my attempts last night to purchase the last pack of "my type" of Canadian smokes in the store. It's the little things in life ...  ;D


----------



## The Bread Guy (7 Dec 2011)

Tim's appears to be following Canadian bases and/or Canadian oil work....


> Tim Hortons, Canada’s largest restaurant chain, may open outlets in military bases under a plan to roll out 120 stores in the GCC (Gulf Co-operation Council) over the next five years, the company’s chairman said Tuesday.
> 
> Canada opened a military base in Kuwait in September, almost a year after the country’s supply post in the UAE was closed following a diplomatic spat between the two nations.
> 
> ...


arabianbusiness.com, 7 Dec 11


----------



## PMedMoe (7 Dec 2011)

Canada "opened" a base in Kuwait?  I thought we were just using part of a U.S. base.   ???


----------



## The Bread Guy (7 Dec 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Canada "opened" a base in Kuwait?  I thought we were just using part of a U.S. base.   ???


Maybe they meant a "baselet"?


----------



## Danjanou (7 Dec 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Maybe they meant a "baselet"?



kind of like the difference between a full sized Tims with seats and tables and those mini counter ones in the mall.  8)


----------



## MJP (7 Dec 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Canada "opened" a base in Kuwait?  I thought we were just using part of a U.S. base.   ???



I think that was just they way they worded it, I remember hearing the same thing about Mirage and KAF in other news articles (not related to Tim's when they first appeared in the news.  We in the military know that we are simply moving into an already established base.   But it is easier for the general public to understand by saying we opened a base.


----------



## The Bread Guy (4 Jul 2013)

This from The Canadian Press:


> The Department of National Defence is abandoning plans for three mobile, deployable Tim Hortons outlets, denying Canadian troops that familiar taste of home on future overseas missions.
> 
> As Canada's combat mission in Afghanistan was winding down in 2011, military officials proposed making it standard practice to have trailer-sized units on hand to sling coffee and donuts to soldiers.
> 
> ...


----------



## Teager (4 Jul 2013)

Well I can see why they have cancelled them and I suppose if Canada gets into another long duration war or peace keeping mission then there is the possibility of having one brought in. IMO they should have sent the Tims trailer that was in KAF and sent it to Kabul if logistics would allow that and if it would have been cheaper than the $100 000 to build.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (4 Jul 2013)

I'll bet there could be enough corporate sponsorship to have a couple produced, palletized and stored ready to go, without it costing DND or the CF a single thin dime.

It just take the cojones for someone to make it happen.


----------



## dapaterson (5 Jul 2013)

I'd be curious to see the detailed accounting that shows $7.1M in profit - I suspect there are some hefty hidden subsidies in there.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (5 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I'd be curious to see the detailed accounting that shows $7.1M in profit - I suspect there are some hefty hidden subsidies in there.



No one cares about that shit as long as they get their coffee.


----------



## UnwiseCritic (5 Jul 2013)

:facepalm:

Haha wow I can't believe this was even an idea. Good to see what takes priority in the defence of Canada. Though I suppose two countries have never gone to war that have a timmies. This could be more effective than the f-35 program.


----------



## Northalbertan (5 Jul 2013)

I know out here in Alberta most guys I know would happily chip in to make sure the troops get their Timmies when deployed.


North Albertan


----------



## Colin Parkinson (5 Jul 2013)

Remember the Sally Ann wagons?


----------



## Towards_the_gap (5 Jul 2013)

Is it really that necessary? 

Yeah I had a timmies the rare time I was in KAF, could I have survived without it? Absolutely. Are there people in the CF who would actually benefit from not having donuts or triple-triple coffees for 6 months? Again...absolutely.

The question this brings up, when seen in light of the brou-ha-ha that kicked off when they suggessted cutting hazard pay, is this: 

'Is the CF a deployable, expeditionary mission oriented military force? Or a bloated, bureaucratic wagon train of commissaries, clerks and CANCAP employees with a thin, exhausted vanguard of fighting troops, that is more concerned with salaries/benefits and home comforts than actually achieving effects?'


----------



## Eye In The Sky (5 Jul 2013)

I dunno, from a 'morale of the troops' standpoint it makes sense to me.  If I had the choice of the "BMB igloo coffee" and a DD I'd likely go DD.  

I know where you guys are coming from, but does a Tim's coffee shop mean anything more than troops can get a Tim's coffee?

It's a QOL thing I guess.  We could dispense with the Tim's coffee, the Sat phones, the Internet, all kinds of things but to what effect (pos/neg) on morale and ppl's GAFF?


----------



## UnwiseCritic (5 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> 'Is the CF a deployable, expeditionary mission oriented military force? Or a bloated, bureaucratic wagon train of commissaries, clerks and CANCAP employees with a thin, exhausted vanguard of fighting troops, that is more concerned with salaries/benefits and home comforts than actually achieving effects?'



Everyday we get closer to the latter.


----------



## PAdm (5 Jul 2013)

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> :facepalm:
> 
> Haha wow I can't believe this was even an idea. Good to see what takes priority in the defence of Canada. Though I suppose two countries have never gone to war that have a timmies. This could be more effective than the f-35 program.



So clearly you have no morale and welfare experience; leadership experience; corporate experience (meaning the management of DND); or small "P" politics experience.  The Kaf Tim's needs to be put into context - a long term Cdn commitment in which CF personnel were suffering. Canadians loved us, coalition partners appreciated us. Everyone wanted in on the support the troops action. The result is a freakishly rare corporate/public/non-public hybrid to have PSP staff run a Tim's franchise in a war zone. It ticked 101 boxes. You will not see this again until we again commit to an e.g. 10 year mission. A 2 roto stint in Haiti will not see a Tim's pop up. I made the expectation management comment to one of the head shed behind the entire KAF Tim's deal and stated that it will be a roto 0 question next time. 

All this said for me to conclude that Tim's was an excellent time and place situation with no downside for the troops. We do not need trailers packed for next time, but please do not dismiss the idea or the fact that we consider it as stupid or a poor priority. It was a big deal and made a difference. Happy troops are focused troops. You need to add more and more as one roto stretches into many more.


----------



## DirtyDog (5 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> So clearly you have no morale and welfare experience; leadership experience; corporate experience (meaning the management of DND); or small "P" politics experience.  The Kaf Tim's needs to be put into context - a long term Cdn commitment in which CF personnel were suffering. Canadians loved us, coalition partners appreciated us. Everyone wanted in on the support the troops action. The result is a freakishly rare corporate/public/non-public hybrid to have PSP staff run a Tim's franchise in a war zone. It ticked 101 boxes. You will not see this again until we again commit to an e.g. 10 year mission. A 2 roto stint in Haiti will not see a Tim's pop up. I made the expectation management comment to one of the head shed behind the entire KAF Tim's deal and stated that it will be a roto 0 question next time.
> 
> All this said for me to conclude that Tim's was an excellent time and place situation with no downside for the troops. We do not need trailers packed for next time, but please do not dismiss the idea or the fact that we consider it as stupid or a poor priority. It was a big deal and made a difference. Happy troops are focused troops. You need to add more and more as one roto stretches into many more.


Apple and oranges, I know, but if all the time and money that was put into Timmies was directed into, say, getting us better kit, I'm sure a lot more fighting troops would be happier.  I indulged a couple of times, thought the novelty of it all was kinda fun, but I really could of cared less. I was more focused on doing my job than worrying about when my next coffee run was.


----------



## UnwiseCritic (6 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> So clearly you have no morale and welfare experience; leadership experience; corporate experience (meaning the management of DND); or small "P" politics experience.  The Kaf Tim's needs to be put into context - a long term Cdn commitment in which CF personnel were suffering. Canadians loved us, coalition partners appreciated us. Everyone wanted in on the support the troops action. The result is a freakishly rare corporate/public/non-public hybrid to have PSP staff run a Tim's franchise in a war zone. It ticked 101 boxes. You will not see this again until we again commit to an e.g. 10 year mission. A 2 roto stint in Haiti will not see a Tim's pop up. I made the expectation management comment to one of the head shed behind the entire KAF Tim's deal and stated that it will be a roto 0 question next time.
> 
> All this said for me to conclude that Tim's was an excellent time and place situation with no downside for the troops. We do not need trailers packed for next time, but please do not dismiss the idea or the fact that we consider it as stupid or a poor priority. It was a big deal and made a difference. Happy troops are focused troops. You need to add more and more as one roto stretches into many more.



Yes clearly I know nothing.

By all means do it, not on my tax paying money, not on CF members time or CF resources. 

I know I would be happier being issued better kit. Had more range time. And from what I understand the majority of people who needed a good morale boost maybe got Tim's once or twice in a tour. And the ones who had it at their constant disposal, well let's just say they could do without it for a few months. 

As for the politics of it...who cares. VIPs and such go to Afghanistan to "Support the troops". Yes visiting them on Christmas making them work even more, and keeping them from doing there actual job. Good support, "do you sleep better at night now?". If you really want to help them how about ask them what they need to do their job better. I highly doubt they will ask for Tims. 

Yes having these people there can raise awareness and these people do have good intentions, just a little misguided. Just ask the soldiers "how can I help?" without getting your pr moment.


----------



## willy (6 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> So clearly you have no morale and welfare experience; leadership experience; corporate experience (meaning the management of DND); or small "P" politics experience.



Here's what an experienced General Officer had to say about the abundance of non-warfighting bumph there was on giant bases such as KAF: "this is a war zone – not an amusement park".  

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/25/us-commander-afghanistan-bans-burger-pizza

Don't be so quick to dismiss the ideas of those whose experience of the war was *more austere than that of others. 

*edit- typo.


----------



## GnyHwy (6 Jul 2013)

PAdm,

We love your efforts, but we must keep it in context or relation, or at least, we must keep it real.

As much as I appreciate Timmie's, I will always take a 12 hour old, bottom of the pot, tar type liquid coffee in a heart beat.

Soldiers need bullets, water, food and fuel, in that order.


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## dimsum (6 Jul 2013)

A positive side effect of Timmys in Kandahar (or presumably any other theatre) is the international goodwill that it generates.  On my second tour there (after Timmys had closed down), this exchange happened at least once every few days:

Coalition/Contractor:  A Canadian?!  Are you guys coming back?
Me:  No, it's just a few of us on exchanges with other coalition partners.
Them:  Too bad.  I miss the Tim Hortons.

It got to the point that if they knew a) Canadians were there in force and b) which Timmys was in operation at the time (Boardwalk v. New Canada House), I knew they were "true" KAF veterans.  The US and UK folks, in particular, were sad that it closed down when we moved up to Kabul.


----------



## willy (6 Jul 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> A positive side effect of Timmys in Kandahar (or presumably any other theatre) is the international goodwill that it generates.



Dude, seriously?  Tim Horton's is not a tool of foreign policy.  Or at least it shouldn't be.  The point that I (and I think others) are trying to make is that there is a big difference between the inside and outside the wire experiences, and that Tim's is a distraction.  Who cares if our soldiers can't get a double double?  I'm especially non-plussed regarding the ability of our coalition partners to procure same.  Give me a freakin' break.


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## UnwiseCritic (6 Jul 2013)

If someone really wanted to give me a special day. Give me clean socks, underwear and baby wipes.

I would prefer if a contractor/coalition soldier came up to me and said: "hey are you a Canadian? You guys are top notch soldiers. Saved our @$$es the other day. You decimated the enemy, kudos"

Not "Hey are you a Canadian? Where'd the tims go?". See how it sounds?

Remember when the Germans saw Canadians on the front and that's when they realized... "Hey were going to be attacked"


----------



## dimsum (6 Jul 2013)

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> If someone really wanted to give me a special day. Give me clean socks, underwear and baby wipes.
> 
> I would prefer if a contractor/coalition soldier came up to me and said: "hey are you a Canadian? You guys are top notch soldiers. Saved our @$$es the other day. You decimated the enemy, kudos"
> 
> ...



Believe me, we were (and still are) held in high regard by coalition forces.


----------



## willy (6 Jul 2013)

:

You're totally missing what he's saying.  Tim Horton's is a symptom of a problem.


----------



## PAdm (6 Jul 2013)

I love a good thread. To recap, I am saying that as the theatre matured and the Tim's idea became a rock pushed off a hill, it gathered momentum and there was no stopping it (regardless if it was a good/bad idea). So it happened and I believe it was the right tool at the right time in our AFG mission. Perhaps the public liked the idea more than soldiers did, but the public pays the bills. 

I am interested in the other perspectives coming up. Was it that much of a divisive issue for those outside the wire, and those further moved forward still?  Was there a perception that a lack of kit/supplies attributable to the Tim's resupply effort?  

While common sense states that money and effort to make issue X happen (Tim's) will take away from issue Y (bullets), part of the corporate stove pipe reality is that they are seen as separate issues. Tim's had to happen and I do not believe it could be (or should have been) stopped because of the good will it generated and the many who were behind it. Perhaps we could actually get a Tim's into KAF but in reality we cannot fix the bullet issue. Take success where you can??

Just a few thoughts and I am very interested in the feedback as the Tim's issue crosses into leadership, morale and welfare, politics, public engagement,etc.


----------



## The_Falcon (6 Jul 2013)

Willy said:
			
		

> Here's what an experienced General Officer had to say about the abundance of non-warfighting bumph there was on giant bases such as KAF: "this is a war zone – not an amusement park".
> 
> Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/25/us-commander-afghanistan-bans-burger-pizza
> 
> ...



And?  Nothing changed, the Pizza Hut on the board walk became a KFC, Bagram still has it fast food joints, hell were I am in KAIA, I can get Pizza Hut, Burger King, Seattles Best Coffee, and there are a host of European run places.  Apparently Camp Phoenix down the road has even better options.


----------



## little jim (6 Jul 2013)

This is an interesting one.

First we used to joke that if you wanted to find useless excess Canadians just go look at the line at Timmies on KAF.

The issue of moral, welfare and recreation raises its head too.    I’m not saying that RC(S) was ever like Bosnia in terms of MWR but I think a lot of soldiers would be surprised at the living conditions at MSG now as compared to how they were back in ‘07/08 – at least they recently closed the massage parlor there….

Based on my limited observations during expeditionary operations, like we saw in 2002, the supply system  is more of a straw coming from Canada.  Once items enter the straw in Canada they will slowly be sucked to their destination.  It is also near impossible it seems to either remove something from the stream once entered or bump items up in priority.  This would be where bullets, beans and batteries need to be entered often.

Once a theatre’s supply line is established then we can introduce more formal welfare items as long as mission essential eqpt does not suffer.  Someone can correct me here but in four deployments since 2002 to now I can never recall having an operational shortfall due to MWR items.  Sure we wanted more ammo of a particular type but it just wasn’t available.

The flip side to this is as a theatre begins to draw down, to move back to expeditionary standards soldiers have to accept that they are going to start to move back to MREs/IMPs (moving to one a day now), MWR going away, gyms, tents, no more wireless internet…

To pile on PAdm post above a discussion needs to happen in terms of if we identify the requirement to have a large number of welfare items in order to keep soldiers occupied and out of trouble during their off hours, like we see in KAF and BAF, then maybe we need to look at how many people we are deploying and to what jobs overseas.

I, for one, will not shed a tear when they begin to tear down the boardwalk this October.


----------



## Towards_the_gap (6 Jul 2013)

You state the kaf timmies was the right tool at the time. How did it contribute to the security of the Afghan population? That was what we were there to do right? Or just collect the hazard pay and wear drop leg holsters in office trailers? 

I was an 'outside the wire' type, and while there was no suspicion that we were lacking at the COP because of the timmies, it was certainly derided as a REMF luxury, a misplaced priority, and a source of embarrassment to us to see overweight CF members waddling out with an XL coffee and box of donuts.

In sum, how did it contribute to the mission of securing the Afghan populace?






			
				PAdm said:
			
		

> I love a good thread. To recap, I am saying that as the theatre matured and the Tim's idea became a rock pushed off a hill, it gathered momentum and there was no stopping it (regardless if it was a good/bad idea). So it happened and I believe it was the right tool at the right time in our AFG mission. Perhaps the public liked the idea more than soldiers did, but the public pays the bills.
> 
> I am interested in the other perspectives coming up. Was it that much of a divisive issue for those outside the wire, and those further moved forward still?  Was there a perception that a lack of kit/supplies attributable to the Tim's resupply effort?
> 
> ...


----------



## The_Falcon (6 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> source of embarrassment to us to see overweight CF members waddling out with an XL coffee and box of donuts.



This is a little off topic, but my American civilian co-workers chide me endlessly about this here, especially the ones who are always wearing OTW shirts, even though they work in office somewhere on this camp.


----------



## little jim (6 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> In sum, how did it contribute to the mission of securing the Afghan populace?



It doesnt.  And that was probably never the intent.  

Would you get more bang for the buck if Timmies sent out triwalls full of coffee, creamers, sugar and table top coffee machines that we could send out of to the FOBs?

We treated KAF as a little in theatre RnR.  Give a soldier who might be lagging a quick day trip down to KAF on a re-supply run would often pay off.  The Timmies, a phone call home, maybe people watch for a couple of hours.  Then back out and into the fight.


----------



## UnwiseCritic (6 Jul 2013)

Willy said:
			
		

> :
> 
> You're totally missing what he's saying.  Tim Horton's is a symptom of a problem.



Yes my point exactly, we're getting pretty good at identifying symptoms. But what is the problem?

A proposed new thread that this could be merged into. "A problem/symptom vs proposed solution" thread. As I'm sure we can have a mature thread where good ideas/solutions can come out of, instead of just identifying symptoms and problems which we seem to be experts at. As we can't expect others to solve the problems for us. 

Who knows maybe some of it will actually get implemented. But that might just be the idealist in me, one of the rare times the realist loses.


----------



## mariomike (6 Jul 2013)

Northalbertan said:
			
		

> I know out here in Alberta most guys I know would happily chip in to make sure the troops get their Timmies when deployed.



The Tim Horton's gift cards were one way - there were many others, of course - to say, "Thank-you" to our men and women serving overseas.
http://shareacup.ca/welcome/


----------



## The_Falcon (6 Jul 2013)

mariomike said:
			
		

> The Tim Horton's gift cards were one way - there were many others, of course - to say, "Thank-you" to our men and women serving overseas.
> http://shareacup.ca/welcome/



Cept when places like Battle Group HQ, hoard all of the gift cards coming in.


----------



## GnyHwy (6 Jul 2013)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Cept when places like Battle Group HQ, hoard all of the gift cards coming in.



I am quite, very, absolutely certain that those cards will reach the hands of the right persons coming in for HLTA/break/whatever.


----------



## MedCorps (6 Jul 2013)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Cept when places like Battle Group HQ, hoard all of the gift cards coming in.



I can also attest that the Health Services used them frequently for soldiers who were "a little shaken up" but otherwise uninjured, having come in from the field, or for buddies who came in on an evac with a guy who was really smashed up and just needed some downtime and hot coffee to reset while they processed the craziness. 

MC


----------



## The_Falcon (6 Jul 2013)

I don't doubt some places doled them out to troops coming in for a break, but it was chaffing to see a large box of the things sitting in the OR, which the staff used to regularly purchase their multi-times a day tim's fixes.  My ISR system was broken for a period of about 2 weeks so while I was back in KAF I was handed over to the BOR for GD work.  Perhaps this only happened on my tour, but the BOR didn't hand them out to people coming in for breaks, or HLTA or whatever.


----------



## Jarnhamar (6 Jul 2013)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> I don't doubt some places doled them out to troops coming in for a break, but it was chaffing to see a large box of the things sitting in the OR, which the staff used to regularly purchase their multi-times a day tim's fixes.  My ISR system was broken for a period of about 2 weeks so while I was back in KAF I was handed over to the BOR for GD work.  Perhaps this only happened on my tour, but the BOR didn't hand them out to people coming in for breaks, or HLTA or whatever.



I've seen the same.

But without tim Hortons people a would have one less thing to to bitch and cry about against people stationed  in KAF, can't take that away from the troops


----------



## OldSolduer (7 Jul 2013)

The problem is that we, some of the leadership of the CF have created expectation that troops - corporals and privates - absolutely require Tim's, Wendy's, KFC and WiFi etc - to function.

Know your troops and promote their welfare. Welfare to me means ensure that they get the training required, they are kitted out properly, they are quartered and fed. It does not mean supplying them with round the clock entertainment or Internet. It does not mean that they need Tim's or any fast food. It does mean the get their mail on time.

A little deprivation and hardship rarely hurts anyone.


----------



## UnwiseCritic (7 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Know your troops and promote their welfare. Welfare to me means ensure that they get the *training required*, they are kitted out properly, they are quartered and fed.


This is probably for another thread, but while were on the subject area. The bolded above is a huge upset for me. I feel the system has been set up to train the senior leadership.



			
				Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> A little deprivation and hardship rarely hurts anyone.



On the contrary, it builds character.


----------



## PAdm (7 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> You state the kaf timmies was the right tool at the time. How did it contribute to the security of the Afghan population? That was what we were there to do right? Or just collect the hazard pay and wear drop leg holsters in office trailers?
> 
> I was an 'outside the wire' type, and while there was no suspicion that we were lacking at the COP because of the timmies, it was certainly derided as a REMF luxury, a misplaced priority, and a source of embarrassment to us to see overweight CF members waddling out with an XL coffee and box of donuts.
> 
> In sum, how did it contribute to the mission of securing the Afghan populace?



If it made the Cdn public and politicians/PM feel good, then that gives us support (= funding). If you were the CDS, would you have shotdown the idea??


----------



## Franko (7 Jul 2013)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I've seen the same.
> 
> But without tim Hortons people a would have one less thing to to bitch and cry about against people stationed  in KAF, can't take that away from the troops



Zing!

I preferred Green Bean when I came in from MSG. Better coffee IMHO.


----------



## jollyjacktar (7 Jul 2013)

Nerf, you're a sick, sick man.  That stuff made Tim's taste good.  That's hard to do.  I prefered the NAFFI coffee.


----------



## Harris (7 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> It does mean they get their mail on time.



I would propose that providing Internet does allow them to get the "mail" on time.  Parcels by container ship or plane yes,  contact from home, not so much.  IMO troops do the majority of their contact home via the Internet and not through written letters.  I'm sure there were many letters sent back and forth, but I suspect that the largest majority were via email and things like skype/facetime.


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## The_Falcon (7 Jul 2013)

Harris said:
			
		

> I would propose that providing Internet does allow them to get the "mail" on time.  Parcels by container ship or plane yes,  contact from home, not so much.  IMO troops do the majority of their contact home via the Internet and not through written letters.  I'm sure there were many letters sent back and forth, but I suspect that the largest majority were via email and things like skype/facetime.



That instant connection thing is a double edged sword though (and may have already been discussed before).  Although we can't realistically expect to put the internet genie back in the bottle, and force everyone deployed to stick with good old fashioned letter writing, I am sure we have all seen or know about that 1 guy/gay (and for Snr Leaders several guys/gals), who have an incessant need to call/skype/FB message whatever someone back home, every single day. And if they don't all you can hear is them trying to placate whoever is on the other end for the several hours the next time they make contact.

Like most things in life it's all about moderation.  Can something like a Tim's or whatever in a large base/logistics point be a morale boost for people coming in from the outlying areas, absolutely.  But when things like that becomes an expected entitlement, or a KAFasoreass NCO admonishes the troop(s)  in line wanting that pick me up for being a little dirty/bearded/and shaggy haired because they have been living in a leaguer for a month, and are only in KAF for like an hour, that's when you get issues.


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## The Bread Guy (7 Jul 2013)

FYI, just pulled in 20+ pages of previous discussion on the Timmie's in K'Har to bring it all together in one place.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


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## Humphrey Bogart (7 Jul 2013)

In the context of the operation I saw no problem with Timmies operating an outlet at Kandahar Airfield.  We were there for a decade on a large base so it would only make sense that  creature comforts would gradually be put in place to improve conditions for soldiers serving on the camp.  Is our next big deployment going to have a Timmies?  Most likely no but if we are there for a long time there is no reason why we cannot gradually improve living conditions on the camp.

For those complaining about frontline soldiers not getting their fair share, I say "cry me a river" you chose your trade.  If you are a member of the Combat Arms you should not expect creature comforts of the B-echelons.  You volunteered knowing full well that you would be having tougher time of it so suck it up and stop gripping.

As for communications, most countries, even third world ones, have equal and/or better cellphone coverage then Canada, not to mention that it is incredibly cheap to use a cellphone in most places.  Buy a cheap cellphone in Canada, unlock it if you need to and just buy sim cards.  Obviously issues of OPSEC come to mind but the resources are def there all it takes is a little individual, dare I say it, *Initiative*.



			
				Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> The problem is that we, some of the leadership of the CF have created expectation that troops - corporals and privates - absolutely require Tim's, Wendy's, KFC and WiFi etc - to function.
> 
> Know your troops and promote their welfare. Welfare to me means ensure that they get the training required, they are kitted out properly, they are quartered and fed. It does not mean supplying them with round the clock entertainment or Internet. It does not mean that they need Tim's or any fast food. It does mean the get their mail on time.
> 
> A little deprivation and hardship rarely hurts anyone.



Well said Jim


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## Kat Stevens (7 Jul 2013)

Where exactly is the "creature comfort line" that a Timmy's trailer crosses so egregiously?  Chemical toilets?  Pure luxury, get rid of them... Atco trailers?  We didn't have them on the Somme, get rid of them... Raincoats that work? Pussies, skin is waterproof otherwise all your blood would leak out, get rid of them.  Canvas bell tents, serge tunics and cross  belts for everyone, and blankets woollen X 2ea per man.  That'll get our heads right and into the fight.


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## Humphrey Bogart (7 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Where exactly is the "creature comfort line" that a Timmy's trailer crosses so egregiously?  Chemical toilets?  Pure luxury, get rid of them... Atco trailers?  We didn't have them on the Somme, get rid of them... Raincoats that work? Pussies, skin is waterproof otherwise all your blood would leak out, get rid of them.  Canvas bell tents, serge tunics and cross  belts for everyone, and blankets woollen X 2ea per man.  That'll get our heads right and into the fight.



Agreed, I think most of this is just brought by certain people that think "If I can't have it then nobody can!"


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## dimsum (7 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> In the context of the operation I saw no problem with Timmies operating an outlet at Kandahar Airfield.  We were there for a decade on a large base so it would only make sense that  creature comforts would gradually be put in place to improve conditions for soldiers serving on the camp.  Is our next big deployment going to have a Timmies?  Most likely no but if we are there for a long time there is no reason why we cannot gradually improve living conditions on the camp.
> 
> For those complaining about frontline soldiers not getting their fair share, I say "cry me a river" you chose your trade.  If you are a member of the Combat Arms you should not expect creature comforts of the B-echelons.  You volunteered knowing full well that you would be having tougher time of it so suck it up and stop gripping.
> 
> ...



QFMFT.


----------



## Jarnhamar (7 Jul 2013)

We should have opened up a Tim Hortons in Khandahar. Right by the Golden Arches. Get em all nice and addicted.
(The forced photo ops were pretty brutal)

And like mentioned above there was a very serious unethical amount of hording going on with Tims Cards.


far as cell's go I had a roshan cellphone and called home every now and then. Paid out the *** for the phone cards but the crystal clear connection beat the welfare phones 2-3 second delay, static and transformer robot voice changer (Like soundwave not Optimus). 
Not to mention having to hear guys telling bullshit warstories to people back home or the people loosing their crap over the phone because so and so seen them at the warehouse or shots with the neighbor.


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## DirtyDog (8 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> For those complaining about frontline soldiers not getting their fair share, I say "cry me a river" you chose your trade.  If you are a member of the Combat Arms you should not expect creature comforts of the B-echelons.  You volunteered knowing full well that you would be having tougher time of it so suck it up and stop gripping.


Yep.  That's why we got the danger and hardship allowances.  Oh wait.....

Seriously though, I could give a shit and I wouldn't want to deprive people out of spite. It got to be a little rich at times, and as I said earlier, I'd be happier to see resources devoted elsewhere.

And yeah... I knew more than a few guys with "local" cell phones.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Jul 2013)

We should have had the Clerks(tm) try and keep track of who stays in KAF, who's stationed at a FOB and goes outside the wire, who's stationed at a FOB but doesn't go outside the wire, who's in a COP.  Infantry guys who are CQ staff and stay in KAF making less than a trucker who's on the road every day. Soldiers wounded and spending time in KAF loosing dangerpay and hardship allowance. Half a dozen different pay incentives and levels, always changing.  



I'm actually surprised KBR didn't force Tim Hortons to shut down.


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## Teager (8 Jul 2013)

Wounded soldiers don't loose there danger pay.


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## Ostrozac (8 Jul 2013)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> We should have had the Clerks(tm) try and keep track of who stays in KAF, who's stationed at a FOB and goes outside the wire, who's stationed at a FOB but doesn't go outside the wire, who's in a COP.  Infantry guys who are CQ staff and stay in KAF making less than a trucker who's on the road every day. Soldiers wounded and spending time in KAF loosing dangerpay and hardship allowance. Half a dozen different pay incentives and levels, always changing.



I know that you're joking -- but I believe that this was actually tried on Kabul Roto 2, with different pay scales for pers working inside Camp Julien and those who patrolled or did supply runs outside the camp. As I understand, this was abandoned as way too much paperwork for no real benefit.

Just for curiosity sake, how does the air force work the paperwork when an aircrew is based in a low hardship and risk location (Mirage, or Sicily), but flies sorties into an operational area (Afghanistan, or Libya)? Do the clerks count the individual days spent in the warzone for each crewmember? Or is aircrew given the higher rate for the entire month?


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Jul 2013)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> We should have had the Clerks(tm) try and keep track of who stays in KAF, who's stationed at a FOB and goes outside the wire, who's stationed at a FOB but doesn't go outside the wire, who's in a COP.  Infantry guys who are CQ staff and stay in KAF making less than a trucker who's on the road every day. Soldiers wounded and spending time in KAF loosing dangerpay and hardship allowance. Half a dozen different pay incentives and levels, always changing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually surprised KBR didn't force Tim Hortons to shut down.



Jeez Louise, OZ. You can`t serious. Everyone was in a warzone. Some got attacked daily, some not at all. That`s beside the point.

Are you telling me your CQ or his helpers didn`t deserve what they got. Or the clerks, medics, pay cell or cooks.


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## Humphrey Bogart (9 Jul 2013)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Yep.  That's why we got the danger and hardship allowances.  Oh wait.....
> 
> Seriously though, I could give a crap and I wouldn't want to deprive people out of spite. It got to be a little rich at times, and as I said earlier, I'd be happier to see resources devoted elsewhere.
> 
> And yeah... I knew more than a few guys with "local" cell phones.



Like I said, its a volunteer army and nobody is forcing you to do anything if you feel like you aren't getting enough money or aren't getting the support you need then VR and go work in a job that has a union.  I would personally do the job for no extra money because I like this line of work and I believe in the organization and what we do but hey that is just me.  

I think what has been alluded to here but has not been said is the Tim Horton's trailer was a drop in the hat in terms of money and resources allocated and a very small one.  Canada spent in the 10's of Billions in Afghanistan and with a Tim's Trailer costing a $100,000 this expenditure in the scheme of military expenditures*this means nothing*.


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## Jarnhamar (9 Jul 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Jeez Louise, OZ.* You can`t serious*. Everyone was in a warzone. Some got attacked daily, some not at all. That`s beside the point.
> 
> Are you telling me your CQ or his helpers didn`t deserve what they got. Or the clerks, medics, pay cell or cooks.



Not at all.   I find people worrying about how much others are making is a sense of entitlement.




I'm not a coffee drinker but I'd rather spend money on an air-deployable QRF timhortons trailer or whatever than the money we're spending on putting Royal back in our names or changing around ranks on uniforms.


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## The_Falcon (9 Jul 2013)

I find the talk of money rather interesting.  Given my present location, I work with interact with Americans, French, Hungarian, Romanian, Portugese, Norwegian, Bulgarian.  The amount of money an indidividual Canadian  makes when deployed compared to our NATO Allies is astounding.  ALOT of countries don't even pay half of what we do. 

And if the pay system, wasn't an ancient DOS based POS perhaps it would be much easier to adjust allowances and the like to individual circumstances.


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## Humphrey Bogart (9 Jul 2013)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> I find the talk of money rather interesting.  Given my present location, I work with interact with Americans, French, Hungarian, Romanian, Portugese, Norwegian, Bulgarian.  The amount of money an indidividual Canadian  makes when deployed compared to our NATO Allies is astounding.  ALOT of countries don't even pay half of what we do.
> 
> And if the pay system, wasn't an ancient DOS based POS perhaps it would be much easier to adjust allowances and the like to individual circumstances.



We have it pretty friggin good, especially considering some jobs require little to no formal education.  I have a degree in political science which is basically something I consider equivalent to basket weaving and make $75,000 a year.  Know what my friends with similar backgrounds on the civvy side do?  They work at Starbucks making $10.25 an hour so our money is astronomically better then most!


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## GAP (9 Jul 2013)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> I find the talk of money rather interesting.  Given my present location, I work with interact with Americans, French, Hungarian, Romanian, Portugese, Norwegian, Bulgarian.  The amount of money an indidividual Canadian  makes when deployed compared to our NATO Allies is astounding.  ALOT of countries don't even pay half of what we do.
> 
> And if the pay system, wasn't an ancient DOS based POS perhaps it would be much easier to adjust allowances and the like to individual circumstances.



Canadian Forces have always been better paid than most. The guys used to razz me about joining the marines to get 200/mo as a Sgt (plus 65/mo combat pay) when I could be making more in the CF.

that said, about a year ago or so, someone posted a comparison. There didn't seem to be that much difference, but the past is better remembered than lived..... ;D


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## Journeyman (9 Jul 2013)

GAP said:
			
		

> ....but the past is better remembered than lived.....


That's not freakin' _another_ pips & crowns reference, is it?     >


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## The_Falcon (9 Jul 2013)

GAP said:
			
		

> Canadian Forces have always been better paid than most. The guys used to razz me about joining the marines to get 200/mo as a Sgt (plus 65/mo combat pay) when I could be making more in the CF.
> 
> that said, about a year ago or so, someone posted a comparison. There didn't seem to be that much difference, but the past is better remembered than lived..... ;D



Maybe not between us and the Americans, but talking to the Europeans, the difference is huge.


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## PAdm (9 Jul 2013)

My lack of connectivity has let me catch up and see where this thread was headed. Clearly there is a variety of viewpoints as to the legitimacy of Tim's at KAF. I believe it made sense at that time and circumstance from a leadership, corporate, and morale and welfare perspectives. If I was CDS, I would have championed it and made it happen. If you we're CDS, in all honesty, would you have killed the idea?  And I am looking for that one counter argument that demonstrates the KAF Tim's as a flawed idea. That said, we do not need to have a few trailers ready to go out the door as part of theatre activation.


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## UnwiseCritic (9 Jul 2013)

In all honesty if I were CDS I would not have killed the idea. I would have endorsed it, made a quick publicity stunt with the troops (perhaps help serve some of the first coffees with other senior leadership). But all time and money invested would be on Tim Hortons. They would have to come up with a plan, and require my approval.


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## dapaterson (9 Jul 2013)

Were I CDS, my priority would have been the deployment of a larger, sustainable force, able to take and hold ground and effect change.

I would have reduced the PSP/NPF footprint to a bare minimum.  As long as we are carrying our creature comforts along, we're not carrying ammo to fight, or supplies to build & support the Afghans, and we're not living with the locals and sharing their world.



In other words, my priority would have been to drive for strategic success, vice tactical.


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## George Wallace (9 Jul 2013)

Really?  At 100K a pop, they were a pittance to purchase.  My question is why would the CAF buy them and not PSP who run CANEX?  In Germany ( I know; a Germany story ) the Sally Ann ran the Brocky Wagons and small canteens.  The British NAAFI also ran Brocky Trucks out into the Field.  This is more in line with what PSP and CANEX should be doing, not the CAF or DND.


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## dapaterson (9 Jul 2013)

They were PSP.  PSP does receive public funds support from DND/CAF, so it's a wash.

And $100K is not a pittance - there's also the transport to theatre; sustainment of supplies in theatre; additional personnel in theatre who require additional food & water, pre-deployment training back in Canada... a whole lot of additional costs to create an additional barrier between the soldiers and the mission.  "You continue living in poverty & fear.  We'll go back behind the wire & enjoy our lifestyle.  Gee, why do you resent us?"


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## George Wallace (9 Jul 2013)

Willy said:
			
		

> :
> 
> You're totally missing what he's saying.  Tim Horton's is a symptom of a problem.



On the other hand, I think you have had a whole lot of this fly right over your head.


A fairly large chunk of Canada's most visible "diplomatic" personalities and actions/activities are carried out by the members of the Canadian Armed Forces.  If Tim Horton's outlets that accompany them to some of the most remote areas of the world serve to compliment that, then Timmies too can be considered that as well.  

  Don't worry; it will come with time.


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## George Wallace (9 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> They were PSP.  PSP does receive public funds support from DND/CAF, so it's a wash.
> 
> And $100K is not a pittance - there's also the transport to theatre; sustainment of supplies in theatre; additional personnel in theatre who require additional food & water, pre-deployment training back in Canada... a whole lot of additional costs to create an additional barrier between the soldiers and the mission. ........




I would argue that so many other more needed items, etc. that cost millions, or even billions, really does make the cost of these trailers very small in comparison.  And there are many other purchases that make this cost pale in comparison.  They too would often require your list of extras: transportation, sustainment supplies, additional personnel with rations and quarters, extra training, etc.  I do accept that some of the cost may require participation from the CAF logistics chain to become a reality, but not all.   There are/were many other civilians who are/were being supported in theatre besides Tim Horton's personnel; some with PSP and some not.  As an example; reporters, and many others were indoctrinated, the same as PSP personnel, by the PSTC prior to deploying overseas.


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## Teager (9 Jul 2013)

I don't understand for those who argue this was a creature comfort and we could have done without. Yes, we could have done with out but the same problems would still arise as soldiers would go to different sources such as Green Bean, Burger King, Subway, Pizza Hut, or the British Naff ti. I know a lot of those were removed by the Americans but my point is if you wanted that type of creature comfort you could get it. Did Tim Hortons's interfere with my job? Absolutely not. Was it nice to have a timmies coffee coming in from the field? Yes. Should the CAF be paying for it? IMO no.

Just my  :2c:


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## willy (9 Jul 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> On the other hand, I think you have had a whole lot of this fly right over your head.
> 
> 
> A fairly large chunk of Canada's most visible "diplomatic" personalities and actions/activities are carried out by the members of the Canadian Armed Forces.  If Tim Horton's outlets that accompany them to some of the most remote areas of the world serve to compliment that, then Timmies too can be considered that as well.
> ...



KAF is hardly one of the most remote areas of the world.  KAF is a big, sprawling megabase that includes all manner of useless crap like massage parlours and Tim Horton's.  There is zero complimentary operational effect achieved by placing a donut shop in KAF.  All it does is promote an us vs them mentality, and that's a distraction that we don't need.  DA Paterson hit it right on the head.


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## Towards_the_gap (9 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Were I CDS, my priority would have been the deployment of a larger, sustainable force, able to take and hold ground and effect change.
> 
> I would have reduced the PSP/NPF footprint to a bare minimum.  As long as we are carrying our creature comforts along, we're not carrying ammo to fight, or supplies to build & support the Afghans, and we're not living with the locals and sharing their world.
> 
> ...




Well said good sir, my point exactly.


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## Humphrey Bogart (10 Jul 2013)

With what army though?  As Clauswitz would say, "war is the continuation of politics by other means" and our deployment to Kandahar was purely political in nature.  Afghanistan is a limited war where success or failure has no real impact on the average Canadian.  So I ask why?  Why would you contribute more forces and resources to the fight then we did and what would be your stated objective?  How much would you contribute?  A Brigade?  Another Battlegroup?   

I don't think us contributing significantly more forces would help our government achieve its political objectives at all, in fact I think it would be detrimental to them but that is the political scientist coming out in me.  I'll add another argument to the topic of why it was important that we had Tim Horton's in theatre and one that has not been brought up yet.

I think this is one of the many forms of political boosterism we saw emerge during the war in Afghanistan in order to have the Canadian population believe that the government of the day was providing the best equipment and resources for troops deployed overseas.  It fit in quite nicely with the whole "support our troops" campaign and was carefully designed to demonstrate that we were providing the best service we could to the troops in the field.


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## Dirt Digger (10 Jul 2013)

After having to get a McGuire-based C-17 to fly it into theatre, I like to think that we developed a heavy lift capability to move that Tim Horton's trailer around.   ;D


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Jul 2013)

Meanwhile back at the ranch......

_The U.S. military has erected a 64,000-square-foot headquarters building on the dusty moonscape of southwestern Afghanistan that comes with all the tools to wage a modern war. A vast operations center with tiered seating. A briefing theater. Spacious offices. Fancy chairs. Powerful air conditioning.

Everything, that is, except troops.

The White House is debating a complete pullout of U.S. troops from Afghanistan in 2014 even as new projects are finished there.

The White House is debating a complete pullout of U.S. troops from Afghanistan in 2014 even as new projects are finished there.

The windowless, two-story structure, which is larger than a football field, was completed this year at a cost of $34 million. But the military has no plans to ever use it. Commanders in the area, who insisted three years ago that they did not need the building, now are in the process of withdrawing forces and see no reason to move into the new facility._

Rest of the article; http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/a-brand-new-us-military-headquarters-in-afghanistan-and-nobody-to-use-it/2013/07/09/2bb73728-e8cd-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html


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## OldSolduer (10 Jul 2013)

I am not against amenities for the troops.

What I am against is catering to their every whim and wish.

Know your troops and promote their welfare does not include making sure they have access to Burger King nor ensuring they have access to the net 7/24.

I've said what I have to say. Feel free to disagree


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## PAdm (10 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I am not against amenities for the troops.
> 
> What I am against is catering to their every whim and wish.
> 
> ...



I agree that basics need to be addressed but the catering to every whim is a problem with the entitlement culture. So I agree with you there. 

This topic is funny because if Tim's never happened, I do not believe you would have seen a single bullet or bean move into theatre faster, nor more of them. I feel the Tim's was inevitable given our national mandate and timeline. Cannot prove any of this however. So I say "no harm done" wrt the KAF Tim's, but the CDS better manage expectations moving forward into our next major theatre.


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## GAP (10 Jul 2013)

> So I say "no harm done" wrt the KAF Tim's, but the CDS better manage expectations moving forward into our next major theatre.



From the outside looking in......it was a brilliant move by the government. It showed support for the troops, gave a bit of Canada far away from home, it made me feel good about the move.

Remember, most Canadians were not aware of the amount of other stuff on the boardwalk. Most that knew about it that I talked to thought it was the only outlet the Canadians had. 

I also remember 26 months of zero amenities except the village kids willing to sell us Tiger Beer, MJ, and a few other things, as we patrolled thru the villes. A 3 day incountry R&R was looked forward to. As was the once a 13 month tour; 5 day outcountry R&R .


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## Towards_the_gap (10 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I think this is one of the many forms of political boosterism we saw emerge during the war in Afghanistan in order to have the Canadian population believe that the government of the day was providing the best equipment and resources for troops deployed overseas.  It fit in quite nicely with the whole "support our troops" campaign and was carefully designed to demonstrate that we were providing the best service we could to the troops in the field.



I'll take quiet, realistic beans and bullets support over the red-shirt-wearing-yellow-ribbon-tying-mile-wide-and-inch-deep support that was culminated in the KAF Timmies.

Did the soldiers need double doubles and donuts? No. They needed proper boots, proper load bearing equipment, and tons of life saving equipment that we never saw until the end, or never saw at all. But johnny canuck felt great that he dropped $10 in the legion collection plate so that a hard working Canadian peacekeeper could have a coffee. It makes me laugh, and just a little sick to my stomach.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (10 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I'll take quiet, realistic beans and bullets support over the red-shirt-wearing-yellow-ribbon-tying-mile-wide-and-inch-deep support that was culminated in the KAF Timmies.
> 
> Did the soldiers need double doubles and donuts? No. They needed proper boots, proper load bearing equipment, and tons of life saving equipment that we never saw until the end, or never saw at all. But johnny canuck felt great that he dropped $10 in the legion collection plate so that a hard working Canadian peacekeeper could have a coffee. It makes me laugh, and just a little sick to my stomach.



Agreed; however, this is the reality we face.  It is unfortunate but at least if we understand this then the leadership can work our way around it and potentially use this to our advantage.


----------



## Teager (10 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I'll take quiet, realistic beans and bullets support over the red-shirt-wearing-yellow-ribbon-tying-mile-wide-and-inch-deep support that was culminated in the KAF Timmies.
> 
> Did the soldiers need double doubles and donuts? No. They needed proper boots, proper load bearing equipment, and tons of life saving equipment that we never saw until the end, or never saw at all. But johnny canuck felt great that he dropped $10 in the legion collection plate so that a hard working Canadian peacekeeper could have a coffee. It makes me laugh, and just a little sick to my stomach.



To be honest I'd rather have people back home showing some support than standing in the street protesting about the war and calling soldiers baby killers. The support that they show has gone much farther than just tossing in $10 for a timmies gift card. Because of the support theres been heavy media attention on soldiers and that has helped the injured/ill improve things and families of the fallen get better looked after. It has also helped show how outdated a lot of our equipment was and the public was wanting better equipment for the soldiers. We did recieve better equipment but it does take time to get that. Without the support I think the government would have felt less pressure to kit us out better.

Also guys would recieve tons of cookies, chocolate and lots of junk goodies from back home so I don't see eating donuts or having a coffee as a very bad thing.

The problem with equipment is it can always be better or there can always be more of it.


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## PAdm (10 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Agreed; however, this is the reality we face.  It is unfortunate but at least if we understand this then the leadership can work our way around it and potentially use this to our advantage.



Thanks for this. I believe this is one of my main points in summary. The Cdn public cannot cope with the true cost of equipping and running a military. The fact that the Sea King helicopter is celebrating its 50th anniversary with no replacement yet in our hands is what makes me sick to my stomach. So the fact that leadership and corporate turned a tan double double into a goodwill campaign for Canadians is a means to an end. It gave us pubic support which facilitated fast track purchases. It will never give us all the bullets and beans we need, but I believe we were/are better off writ large because of the Tim's than had it never popped up.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (10 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> Thanks for this. I believe this is one of my main points in summary. The Cdn public cannot cope with the true cost of equipping and running a military. The fact that the Sea King helicopter is celebrating its 50th anniversary with no replacement yet in our hands is what makes me sick to my stomach. So the fact that leadership and corporate turned a tan double double into a goodwill campaign for Canadians is a means to an end. It gave us pubic support which facilitated fast track purchases. It will never give us all the bullets and beans we need, but I believe we were/are better off writ large because of the Tim's than had it never popped up.



Winning the public relations battle is important.  We weren't always good at it but we have gotten a lot better.  It is important that we are able to connect with Canadians on an emotional plane so that they continue to show us support.  Serving Tim Hortons coffee in Kandahar fulfilled this as Tim Horton's is something that Canadians of all walks of life can identify with.

Consider it just another part of our IA campaign and you will quickly see that it did pay dividends.


----------



## dimsum (11 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Winning the public relations battle is important.  We weren't always good at it but we have gotten a lot better.  It is important that we are able to connect with Canadians on an emotional plane so that they continue to show us support.  Serving Tim Hortons coffee in Kandahar fulfilled this as Tim Horton's is something that Canadians of all walks of life can identify with.
> 
> Consider it just another part of our IA campaign and you will quickly see that it did pay dividends.



QFMFT.  Again.  You sure you aren't a PAO hiding under that capbadge?   >


----------



## jollyjacktar (11 Jul 2013)

:





			
				RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Winning the public relations battle is important.  We weren't always good at it but we have gotten a lot better.  It is important that we are able to connect with Canadians on an emotional plane so that they continue to show us support.  Serving Tim Hortons coffee in Kandahar fulfilled this as Tim Horton's is something that Canadians of all walks of life can identify with.
> 
> Consider it just another part of our IA campaign and you will quickly see that it did pay dividends.


 :goodpost:

This is exactly the point.  We also need to win hearts and minds at home.  The money I saw going out the door was a flood compared to the cost of a buy in by the Canadian public at large.  The amount of space keeping Tim's running on supply runs in couldn't have possibly been that drastic or detrimental to the mission.  Shyte boots et al wasn't caused by Tim's.  I'm just waiting for someone to claim it caused global warming too   :


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## Towards_the_gap (11 Jul 2013)

All that donut baking certainly didn't reduce our carbon footprint.....jus sayin....


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jul 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> QFMFT.  Again.  You sure you aren't a PAO hiding under that capbadge?   >


Impossible - his writing doesn't feel like it was "written by committee" and subject to a zillion levels of approvals  >


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## Good2Golf (11 Jul 2013)

The misconception is that money spent on Tim's would have otherwise 100% been used effectively elsewhere (boots, replace threadbare CADPAT, etc...).

The reality, as noted in public records, is that DND fails to spend hundreds of millions of dollars...that's HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars of its budget each and every year. With a peak $21B, that was still only a few percent...actually not bad in one sense, given that private industry even has a hard time hitting budgets with such accuracy.

However, it is a fallacy to believe or to causally link other programmatic shortfalls to the provision of troop welfare and secondary/tertiary effects of building public support through increased awareness of the goings on of a Marion's soldiers on operations.  

Regards 
G2G


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## Journeyman (11 Jul 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> You sure you aren't a PAO .....


Oh man, what a crappy thing to say.


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## Edward Campbell (11 Jul 2013)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> The misconception is that money spent on Tim's would have otherwise 100% been used effectively elsewhere (boots, replace threadbare CADPAT, etc...).
> 
> The reality, as noted in public records, is that DND fails to spend hundreds of millions of dollars...that's HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars of its budget each and every year. With a peak $21B, that was still only a few percent...actually not bad in one sense, given that private industry even has a hard time hitting budgets with such accuracy.
> 
> ...




Indeed; see this, from the _CBC_: "New figures from the parliamentary budget office show National Defence hasn't spent billions of dollars set aside for it during the last budget year in a continuing trend that's being described as deficit slashing by stealth.

The data on quarterly expenditures in the federal government show that by the end of the last fiscal year in March, the department had spent $2.3 billion less than what was allocated by Parliament.

That's more than 10 per cent of the annual defence appropriation, which also happens to be the single biggest discretionary line item in the federal budget."


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## Towards_the_gap (11 Jul 2013)

I understand that the $100k or whatever it was that got timmies to kaf did not mean less new boots that year, but energy was expended to make it happen, energy (staff work, etc) that could have been put to better use. Nor do I believe that it helped the pr battle back home. Sure Joe Canuck thought the troops were being supported, but that's because all he saw was grinning troops slurping coffee and watching ball hockey, they didn't see the PBI out in the villages pushing the rock up the mountain again and again. 

Basically, I still fail to see how it contributed to the destruction of the TB or contributed to the protection of coalition forces.


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## PAdm (11 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Were I CDS, my priority would have been the deployment of a larger, sustainable force, able to take and hold ground and effect change.
> 
> I would have reduced the PSP/NPF footprint to a bare minimum.  As long as we are carrying our creature comforts along, we're not carrying ammo to fight, or supplies to build & support the Afghans, and we're not living with the locals and sharing their world.
> 
> ...



Neither the USA nor NATO as a group were/are able to place enough assets to drive for strategic success.  The CDS had no real influence there. I say seize success when you can. The CF does amazing work in Afghanistan and paid a price. If Tim's helped to bolster troop morale and made the public feel good, then i say the CDS was brilliant. Strategic success was not a meeting he was invited to.


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## PAdm (11 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I understand that the $100k or whatever it was that got timmies to kaf did not mean less new boots that year, but energy was expended to make it happen, energy (staff work, etc) that could have been put to better use. Nor do I believe that it helped the pr battle back home. Sure Joe Canuck thought the troops were being supported, but that's because all he saw was grinning troops slurping coffee and watching ball hockey, they didn't see the PBI out in the villages pushing the rock up the mountain again and again.
> 
> Basically, I still fail to see how it contributed to the destruction of the TB or contributed to the protection of coalition forces.



It did not contribute.  It played a completely different role/had a completely different audience. This was an internal Canadian play. But do not think it was useless as it was not a direct line to the defeat of the enemy. We could strip out other things as well if that logic prevails, but the mission overall would suffer eventually. As an Admin guy I tell my operator friends that they can ignore me today, tomorrow, or next week, but eventually the pers issue I am dealing with will eat significantly into their command team focus. Same with Tim's. not a critical issue, but made a difference overall. If toms never happened, there would have been some other M&R issue to occupy time and space in the overall scheme of things, the time, effort and money did detract from anything of significance.  

As always, just one man's opinion.


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## George Wallace (11 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I understand that the $100k or whatever it was that got timmies to kaf did not mean less new boots that year, but energy was expended to make it happen, energy (staff work, etc) that could have been put to better use. Nor do I believe that it helped the pr battle back home. Sure Joe Canuck thought the troops were being supported, but that's because all he saw was grinning troops slurping coffee and watching ball hockey, they didn't see the PBI out in the villages pushing the rock up the mountain again and again.
> 
> Basically, I still fail to see how it contributed to the destruction of the TB or contributed to the protection of coalition forces.



As we have discussed Ad nauseam in another topic, a lot of staff work, etc. is wasted on things that could have been put to better use.  At least at the Timmies you could have a coffee and relax.  What are we all wasting time on Pips and Crowns for?  Will they help us to destruct the TB or any other belligerent that we may face in the future?  Needless staff work and expense is wasted on so many projects; Tim Horton's was relatively minor in the scheme of things considering.  It didn't call for a devolution of our history.


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## Towards_the_gap (11 Jul 2013)

Humph...I guess it just sticks in my craw, even after releasing, that this, the KAF timmies, was always trotted out, amongst other tat, as evidence of how world class 'our canadian forces' are/were, and gave everyone warm and fuzzies while in the real world things were much much worse.


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## willy (12 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Humph...I guess it just sticks in my craw, even after releasing, that this, the KAF timmies, was always trotted out, amongst other tat, as evidence of how world class 'our canadian forces' are/were, and gave everyone warm and fuzzies while in the real world things were much much worse.



This.



			
				Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I understand that the $100k or whatever it was that got timmies to kaf did not mean less new boots that year, but energy was expended to make it happen, energy (staff work, etc) that could have been put to better use. Nor do I believe that it helped the pr battle back home. Sure Joe Canuck thought the troops were being supported, but that's because all he saw was grinning troops slurping coffee and watching ball hockey, they didn't see the PBI out in the villages pushing the rock up the mountain again and again.
> 
> Basically, I still fail to see how it contributed to the destruction of the TB or contributed to the protection of coalition forces.



And this.

The Tim Horton's, Massage Parlour, and other niceties did nothing for the operational effectiveness of KAF and I for one don't buy the IO effect idea for one minute.  Such message, if it ever existed, was limited to the Canadian population.  Again, I am not sold on this message having ever been delivered, but hold that belief if you want to.

Even if that message was delivered back home, the effect in theater was different.  What the delivery of BS amenities to KAF achieved in theatre was the further entrenchment of an us vs them mentality that I personally found to be counterproductive.  It's tough to feel that you're on the same team as someone that gets to drink ice caps when you're sweating your bag off in an austere COP and wishing that you were someplace else.  I had the opportunity to see both sides of the coin on my tour there in 2008-09, and I believe the overall effect was negative.  The people in KAF had more than enough civilized amenities such as showers, laundry services, air-conditioned accomodations, and the like.  They didn't need any more.  I say this having been (for the most part) one of them.


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## Humphrey Bogart (12 Jul 2013)

Willy said:
			
		

> This.
> 
> And this.
> 
> ...



This is what you are not tracking - a lot of these decisions are not made by soldiers, rather, they are made by senior bureaucrats and politicians at the PMOs office.  If you think their is a magical organization within DND dreaming up such wonderful ideas as pips and crowns or putting Timmy's in KAF well I hate to burst your bubble but your wrong.  

The stuff that goes on at this level is almost always politically-driven in nature.  It is the nature of the beast and it isn't going to change so you need to learn to live with it and leverage it to your advantage.  We received really great support from the Canadian population and made some great capital acquisitions (Howitzer's, MBTs, Strategic Airlift, New Helicopters, Patrol Vehicles, UAVs)  Don't tell me we would have gotten any of this had we not been in Afghanistan and had widespread support for the soldiers serving overseas.

How about we bring back rum rations to the frontlines  ;D I'd be more then happy to let the KAFer's sip their Latte's if it means I can have a few swigs of Appleton Reserve every night  >


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jul 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> .... What are we all wasting time on Pips and Crowns for?  Will they help us to destruct the *TB* or any other belligerent that we may face in the future? ....


Need a coffee here - I thought you meant Treasury Board.

Or did you?  >


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## willy (12 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> This is what you are not tracking



I'm tracking the fact that some think this way quite well thank you.  I don't buy it however.  Your interperetation of politics and their impact on defence policy needs a bit of clarification for me: please state your case whereby the insertion of Tim Hortons directly impacted on our procurement policy or any of the other goodies you mention.  I fail to see how the donut shop led to Leopard II's.  If you feel strongly that this was the case and care to educate me on the specifics and nuances of how these two were linked then feel free.  In the meantime, I will continue to believe that Tim's was a bullshit distraction from the real mission that made certain people feel good, but did little in the end.  

Edit for clarity


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Jul 2013)

Willy said:
			
		

> The Tim Horton's, Massage Parlour, and other niceties did nothing for the operational effectiveness of KAF and I for one don't buy the IO effect idea for one minute.  Such message, if it ever existed, was limited to the Canadian population.  Again, I am not sold on this message having ever been delivered, but hold that belief if you want to.
> 
> Even if that message was delivered back home, the effect in theater was different.  What the delivery of BS amenities to KAF achieved in theatre was the further entrenchment of an us vs them mentality that I personally found to be counterproductive.  It's tough to feel that you're on the same team as someone that gets to drink ice caps when you're sweating your bag off in an austere COP and wishing that you were someplace else.  I had the opportunity to see both sides of the coin on my tour there in 2008-09, and I believe the overall effect was negative.  The people in KAF had more than enough civilized amenities such as showers, laundry services, air-conditioned accomodations, and the like.  They didn't need any more.  I say this having been (for the most part) one of them.



It's been so since armies took to the field eons ago.

Amenities in the rear always surpass those in the front.

It's the nature of the beast.

It won't change, but you can still bitch about it, as they've also been doing for those same eons without change.


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## willy (12 Jul 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> It's been so since armies took to the field eons ago.
> 
> Amenities in the rear always surpass those in the front.
> 
> ...



You're quite right and in that sense I suppose I'm wrong and I'll therefore STFU.  What bugs me is that there are people trying to dress this up in terms of an IO effect that was non-existent.  Tim's was not an IO objective.  It was just bumph.


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## DirtyDog (14 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Like I said, its a volunteer army and nobody is forcing you to do anything if you feel like you aren't getting enough money or aren't getting the support you need then VR and go work in a job that has a union.  I would personally do the job for no extra money because I like this line of work and I believe in the organization and what we do but hey that is just me.
> 
> I think what has been alluded to here but has not been said is the Tim Horton's trailer was a drop in the hat in terms of money and resources allocated and a very small one.  Canada spent in the 10's of Billions in Afghanistan and with a Tim's Trailer costing a $100,000 this expenditure in the scheme of military expenditures*this means nothing*.


Relax, I was being facetious.

I do at times feel that some work a LOT hard for their money then others, but at the end of the day, I just get on with it.  Just like everything else and how I feel about Timmies.  You say it was a drop in the cucket that amounted to nothing, and I know one problem doesn't directly relate to the other, but here I was, along with many others, wearing a the most basic of PPE and I had to tie it together with biners and 550.


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## DirtyDog (14 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Were I CDS, my priority would have been the deployment of a larger, sustainable force, able to take and hold ground and effect change.
> 
> I would have reduced the PSP/NPF footprint to a bare minimum.  As long as we are carrying our creature comforts along, we're not carrying ammo to fight, or supplies to build & support the Afghans, and we're not living with the locals and sharing their world.
> 
> ...


This.


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## Old Sweat (14 Jul 2013)

We got back from our trip to Sudbury at about 1630, so we were away 32.5 hours. This breaks down to 13 hours driving, 2 hours visiting with Aunt, 7 hours sleeping and 10.5 hours socializing with wife's relatives at cottage. Of the last, 7 hours eating and drinking, not in that order yesterday and 3 hours for getting up and having brunch, etc.


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## Kat Stevens (14 Jul 2013)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> We got back from our trip to Sudbury at about 1630, so we were away 32.5 hours. This breaks down to 13 hours driving, 2 hours visiting with Aunt, 7 hours sleeping and 10.5 hours socializing with wife's relatives at cottage. Of the last, 7 hours eating and drinking, not in that order yesterday and 3 hours for getting up and having brunch, etc.



Was there a forward deployed Timmie's there?


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## armybuck041 (14 Jul 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> It's been so since armies took to the field eons ago.
> 
> Amenities in the rear always surpass those in the front.
> 
> ...



Admittedly I didn't read all 33 pages of this but, that sums up my thoughts.

If it wasn't the Tim Hortons trailer, it would be something else. Although I only managed to get one coffee there, I didn't see the harm in having it, and not having it certainly wouldn't have translated to more Bayonets in the AO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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