# Signal Operators?



## Egon

Good day, Just wanted to get in touch with someone presently employed as a Sig. Op for a few questions.
Thanks.


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## astrof

Hi. Send away


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## garynye

Hi!

It seems you‘re interested in being R215, or Sig Op.

Well, i‘m a Sig Op, so if you‘ve got some questions, let me know.

Gazza
TCCCS/Comms Guy


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## Soldier of Fortune

I was just wondering what the job of the Signal Operator was. I say some people with emlets (i think thats how you spell it...) that say signals on them what does that mean?


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## garynye

Well, you must be wondering what do the Signals Corps do eh?

According to CF Signals ‘Bible‘ the role of signals is:

"To provide Commanders and their staff with the means of command and control and to deny the enemy‘s use of the electromagnetic spectrum through the use of electronic warfare."

So in short, we link all the elements with a communications system.  These are very exciting times for the CF to be introducing the IRIS system of digital comms equipment.  The IRIS system leapfrogs CF tactical command and control into the 21st century!  Hope you are familiar with the AN/PRC 522, 521, PDT, CIs etc... which are the various components of the entire IRIS system.

And for some extra trivia, Signals epaluettes for the French components of the CF are instead "transmissions."  SO DON‘T EVER GO UP TO SOME SOLDIER WITH "TRANSMISSIONS" AND ASK HIM/HER TO FIX YOUR VEHICLE!!!! =P

I hope that this was rather enlightening!

TCCCS/Comms Guy


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## PTE Fader

You‘re trained with TCCCS?  That must be cool, I can‘t wait until my 3‘s next year to try it out.  WHen i think about it, Sig Op must be one of the coolest roles in the army.  You‘re not doing as much physical gruntwork as the combat arms but doing enough that it still requires you to be in good physical condition, you‘re not doing as much administrative work as logistics but enough that you have to stay sharp mentally, and what‘s more, having knowledge of comms equipment enables you to work side by side with soldiers in other trades.  Some of the Corporals who are missing during a parade day one day to offer support on an exercies may come back the next week and say "I just spent a week with the Engineers.  They gave me a couple pounds of C4, and we blew up small farmhouses"  I can‘t wait until I get more envolved with signals.


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## CrazyCanuck

Any Sig Ops here?  Anyone based in Kingston?  Anyone in the Reserve Electronic Warfare Squadron?

I just dropped off my application package at the base.


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## Aries

I am a newly posted signalman at CFJSR....EW is for the Comms Rsch guys.

The whole regmnt is on SQ courses right now atually...

Is there anything you wanted to know in particular?


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## willy

Actually, Aries, you aren't correct on that one.  The majority of the pers in an EW Sqn are Sig Ops.  There are rubberheads there too, but not a whole sqn's worth, by a long shot.


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## Military Brat

CrazyCanuck said:
			
		

> Any Sig Ops here?   Anyone based in Kingston?   Anyone in the Reserve Electronic Warfare Squadron?
> 
> I just dropped off my application package at the base.



I handed in my application to Res EW squadron in March actually. I was hoping to get on the BMQ/SQ course this summer in Shilo, Manitoba but it seems that my file sat idle at the recruiting centre for a few weeks so it seems very unlikely I will make it for the summer - I haven't even done the PT, Medical, or interview. Ah well, from what I hear they are running a BMQ course this fall part-time on the weekends, so that is most likely the course I will be loaded on once (or if) I am accepted into the unit.


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## clasper

willy said:
			
		

> Actually, Aries, you aren't correct on that one.   The majority of the pers in an EW Sqn are Sig Ops.   There are rubberheads there too, but not a whole sqn's worth, by a long shot.



Just an added correction.  There are no reservist rubberheads, and the only one in Res EW is the reg force support guy.  When I was there in the 90's, there was also a reg force rad op, and int op (and some support types).  2 (EW) Sqn has a troop of rubberheads, and one troop of half rubberheads/half int ops.  Res EW is organized sort of the same way, but with rad ops substituted for rubberheads.


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## willy

I'll find out more about this when I get out of this place I'm in now, and back to my home unit, but from what I've heard recently, we're supposed to be moving away from recruiting LCIS techs and starting to recruit for reserve comm research positions, even in the non-EW units of the comm reserve.  I don't personally think that makes all that much sense, but as you can imagine, I was not consulted in the decision making process.


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## clasper

That's a big change in the comm research world.  From my (outdated) knowledge of the community, I can easily picture how reservist rubberheads would be employed in Kingston and in Ottawa, but I have a hard time seeing how a 291er in Vancouver (for instance) might be usefully employed (or trained for that matter).  I also don't see any connection to moving away from recruiting LCIS techs.  Either DISO (or whatever they call themselves now) is out to lunch (which I'm not discounting as a possibility), or 291ers have taken on quite a bit of responsibilities that weren't part of their trade previously.


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## willy

Well, as I said, I agree with you completely.  I can't honestly imagine just exactly how it is that res rubberheads are supposed to be gainfully employed.  Nonetheless, that seems (from what I have heard, at least) to be the current thing.  On the other hand however (and to play the devil's advocate) LCIS techs are a wasted resource within the comm res as well.  Not only do they require the same lenghty (12 month) QL3 trg as their reg counterparts, but they need the same QL4 as well, which is only available on a largish base, not to mention the fact that it is almost equally long.  I can almost see the case for not recruiting any more res LCIS techs, but the change to 291'ers doesnt' seem to make much sense to me.

Maybe I'm wrong.  I won't personally know for another two months or so.  If anyone knows any differently, please chime in.


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## platinumfx

Hey guys, I just wanted to know what the hours are like for a Sig Op, or in general for everybody when done trade training and having been posted to my new home where ever that may be. LOL Also if anybody knows what Sig Op Training is like. PLEASE let me know.I'm really interrested to know what I will be in for. Well thanks in advance.


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## combat_medic

Doesn't belong in the Infantry section. Getting moved to CSS.


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## meni0n

I believe SigOps are Combat Support ( CS ).


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## mdh

Would anyone know if they would consider other degrees for Reserve Field Sig. Officer rather than technical ones like computer science and engineering? Someone told me they will consider you for the Communications Reserve Regiments with a non-technical degree (i.e. arts) on a case-by-case basis. Thanks in advance.


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## Jason Bourne

I start my SigOp MOC in Sept (reg) and apparently they work pretty good hours unlessy you're with a more of a field unit (ie Edmonton) in which cause you're hours are wacky. Mind you this is all hearsay but hey better then nothing...


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## bossdog

I can only speak for my unit here in Kingston. Monday to Friday 0730 to 1600 unless on exercise or something comes up. It's my understanding that mosr HQ and Sigs work this way, it's just that other HQ and Sigs deploy more often than others on exercises.

As far as the training is concerned, i did mine 8 years ago, it's changed alot since then so I can't help you out there.


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## Gilligan

Hmmmmm, maybe I've completely lost my mind, but when I was in Kingston this past summer, I remember hearing one of the Comms Research guys talking about how Res EW is now an actually Comms Squadron???  If anyone knows why I would have heard that, please clarify or confirm, and if confirming, add a little more info, as it has been driving me mad.


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## Gilligan

Being a Sig Op can be extremely rewarding.  I've been on support ex's for medics, engineers, MPs, infantry, armoured, and every time you learn something new.  Not to mention the opportunities for taskings and major ex's like Cougar Salvo, Active Edge or a big western ex is Ex Seahawk down in Fort Lewis during the summer.  And, it's true, it isn't always the most physical, but it's challenging in other ways, mentally it can really tire you out, those night shifts that seem to go on forever can really get to some people, and when you make it through one of those weekends that was just an absolute bagdrive, you know you accomplished something, whether other trades want to accept it or not, SIGNALS IS THE BEST TRADE OUT THERE!


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## Fruss

Gilligan: you realize that you replied to a post 3 1/2 years old right??  

Hehe..

Cheers

Frank


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## Carey

As far as I knew Res EW was always a comm squadron with a specific purpose. They are getting a 70* designator though. Who knows, I wouldn't really call anything without 72 infront of it a comms unit


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## GDawg

I'd like to see LCIS techs working amongst us sig ops in the comm res. I think it would be perfectly reasonable and probably achievable, all you need is a special NCM entry plan.
 Model one after a reg force entry plan, take in people with specific civilian and academic experience and give them a small bonus to join, and write off POET or what have you.
 Spec pay anyone?
  I just came up with that idea in 30 seconds... If there are any holes or you have ideas fire away.


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## meni0n

Yet LCIS was phased out of the reserves. Only sigs and linemen remain now.


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## Gilligan

HAHAHA, Carey, I beg to differ, the rest of the units in 72 comm grp are below par from any in 74 comm grp!  Must be all the imbreeding, lol, jk.  
  As for the res LCIS techs, they have in fact been phased out of the reserves, and for a relatively good reason.  I know at least at my unit we had 1, and sure he fixed a lot of the little things that went wrong with equippment, but for anything big that went wrong, stuff would have to go to Edmonton anyway.  Because there was only one, there was no feasible training schedual for him and thus useless to have around.  Maybe it worked for other units....but out here we just get the run around come ATI time anyway.


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## 291er

Wrong lads.  There are reserve 291ers now, in fact, last i heard is that all the former Sig Ops at Res EW were made reserve 291ers now.  It's still getting hashed out right now on how we'll have reserve 291ers.  About them being in Vancouver, doubtful, you will not see 291ers attached to the Comm Sqns, we do a completely different job that all the other sigs types.  Reserve 291ers will be employed in Leitrim of course, but I can't see either of the coasts or our other postings getting any.  The two main issues with having Res 291 is that our 3's usually take a year or more, and you require your clearance before completing your crse, this can take up to a year or more also.  
I think the Res 291 world will be divided into an EW side of the house and a SIGINT side.


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## Rushrules

291er:  How can you Occupationally transferred into a trade that doesn't exist as yet (ie.  have formal courses)?  It's coming, but only CFSTG/CFSCE can grant equivs.   As for where a R291er would work, hey when you're in the secret squirrel world, anywhere that has a large population is fair game, like Vancouver.- ie Sikhs blowing up airlines.  The trg will take time, but the ex-Reg F R291ers will make out pretty well with this, in that they won't get deployed and the only downside is that they would make 85% of the Reg F salary.


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## 291er

Rushrules:
Most of the R291ers are going to be ex Regs at this point, but eventually there will be the infrastructure in place to do this.
As for having 291ers in all the major cities, no chance, unless they do EW.  FYI, though the city may have an ethnically diverse population, does'nt give us the right to listen to them.  Read our trade description, we deal with FOREIGN communications, domestic comms are a no-fly zone and illegal.  Plus imagine the amount of money we'd have to spend setting up sites across Canada.....when we could easily do the same thing from Ottawa.


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## Radop

willy said:
			
		

> I'll find out more about this when I get out of this place I'm in now, and back to my home unit, but from what I've heard recently, we're supposed to be moving away from recruiting LCIS techs and starting to recruit for reserve comm research positions, even in the non-EW units of the comm reserve.   I don't personally think that makes all that much sense, but as you can imagine, I was not consulted in the decision making process.


The branch Col and CWO told us that the reserves will not recruit anymore LCIS techs and that a new reserve R291 moc has been OKed by Ottawa and will start to become a recruiting priority for reservists in Kingston.


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## Radop

Aries said:
			
		

> I am a newly posted signalman at CFJSR....EW is for the Comms Rsch guys.
> 
> The whole regmnt is on SQ courses right now atually...
> 
> Is there anything you wanted to know in particular?


I am posted to 3 sqn and I was on PDT training not an SQ as I have been qualified for ohh, 18 yrs.  What sqn are you in?  If you don't want to tell me on this forum, let me know via a PM.


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## luck881

Check the date of that post about the SQ.   It was last summer, I know because I taught on it!   
...Just busting your b@lls, it's Ian.   Things in Pet are good, do you miss it yet?   How are you enjoying RDS (Relaxed Deployment Squadron)?


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## Radop

Luck881 said:
			
		

> Check the date of that post about the SQ.   It was last summer, I know because I taught on it!
> ...Just busting your b@lls, it's Ian.   Things in Pet are good, do you miss it yet?   How are you enjoying RDS (Relaxed Deployment Squadron)?


hey Ian, lol,

I wish I was working there and living here.  I have dagged so many times in the last 5 mos my head is spinning yet no deployment.

So like the 5 mos of exercises. lol


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## marie1987

i was wondering, after completing basic training then there is SQ whats after for SigOp...and how long does it take to complete the course and get posted?


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## Jager

After Basic Training (13 Weeks) SQ (4 Weeks) you have your Sig Op QL3 which is aprox 6 Months, Once you complete that you are posted to a unit. (afterwards I have no idea what the 'normal' progression is, I'm far from normal  : )


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## MikeL

You also have to do LSVW Driver wheel before going on your QL3.


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## Jager

Actually its no longer a Hard requirment, as with SQ. It has to be completed some time, but no longer before your QL3 (and I'm speaking from experence of sending people on their 3's without either course)


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## 211RadOp

MikeL said:
			
		

> You also have to do LSVW Driver wheel before going on your QL3.



Here at the Regt, we run a couple of Dvr Wheel Crses a year and most of the pers on it are Sig Ops already done QL3, and in some cases QL5.


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## MikeL

Wow, things have changed since I went through. The two Pre Reqs before going on your QL3 was SQ and LSVW.  I know a few people who didn't get SQ before going on course, but I dunno how common it is or what the circumstances were. But not having LS Dvr Whl I'm surprised at.


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## Sig_Des

MikeL said:
			
		

> But not having LS Dvr Whl I'm surprised at.



I've seen it. Some had waivers, and got on course. Sucks when it comes to the field portion, though, and you base your Shifts on making sure the 1 driver gets his 8 hourse of sleep....


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## Thanato

I'm a reservist and I was told by my MWO that the LSVW driver wheel course is required before going on my 3s. So they put me on the course.

~Thanato


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## Sig_Des

Thanato said:
			
		

> I'm a reservist and I was told by my MWO that the LSVW driver wheel course is required before going on my 3s. So they put me on the course.
> 
> ~Thanato



Yes, you are _supposed_ to have LS to go on your 3's. You are also supposed to have your Lvl 3. But what happens, is that they'll give a _waiver_ to the requirement.


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## willy

This is a big issue that I complain about every time I get tasked to the school.  The last time I was there I had 8 dets in the field and a total of 9 qualified drivers to split between them, and this was on a QL5 course.  If 2 of my drivers had gotten sick, gone home or whatever we would have been in trouble.  It was also a significant issue because of the requirement to get adequate rest for drivers- if 1 guy is doing all the driving then he's the only one that needs to get any sleep, and the rest of the guys end up working non-stop to accomodate him.  The requirement for 404's exists for a reason and it isn't neccessarily correct to say that a waiver will be granted: it may be, if the school thinks they can get away with it.  When my guys start talking about the possibility of getting waivers to go on their courses I tell them that they're putting the school in a difficult position by even asking, and that if they have to ask for a waiver then they shouldn't count on being allowed to go.


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## career_radio-checker

willy said:
			
		

> This is a big issue that I complain about every time I get tasked to the school.  The last time I was there I had 8 dets in the field and a total of 9 qualified drivers to split between them, and this was on a QL5 course.  If 2 of my drivers had gotten sick, gone home or whatever we would have been in trouble.  It was also a significant issue because of the requirement to get adequate rest for drivers- if 1 guy is doing all the driving then he's the only one that needs to get any sleep, and the rest of the guys end up working non-stop to accommodate him.  The requirement for 404's exists for a reason and it isn't necessarily correct to say that a waiver will be granted: it may be, if the school thinks they can get away with it.  When my guys start talking about the possibility of getting waivers to go on their courses I tell them that they're putting the school in a difficult position by even asking, and that if they have to ask for a waiver then they shouldn't count on being allowed to go.



I second that, totally.

This is exactly what happened to me... except I was on my QL5 course. And in the school's infinite wisdom they combined the QL3 and QL5 course for the final field EX. I was supposed to be the det commander but none of by QL3 crew had their 404's for LSVW, so I was also the driver. I'm sure every sig-op knows CFSCE's strict adherence to doing everything by the book (ie wearing goggles while pounding in tent pegs  : ) so naturally I HAD to get 8 hours of sleep and log it, or get charged (And they were checking). By all accounts I should have been the one working the most shifts and giving my boys time to relax but instead they had to be up all-night without mentorship (staff didn't do the runthroughs the week before on the QL3 course). Naturally, if you don't know what you are supposed to do at night, 'sh!t starts to roll down hill' when the instructors come by. My 8 hrs became more like 5 with a MCpl for an alarm clock. "Why isn't your cam draped?", "Why are your troops asleep in the cab?", "Why are your logs not filled out?", "Why did your troops eat in the cab!" etc... Of course it was their mistake my fault, and now I had to go over there and yell at them. While I was mad as hell at their performance I knew their intentions were not malicious -- they simply did not know why they had to do the tasks I had assigned to them the night before.  I'm of the school of thought that a good mentor is with his troops participating and explaining the actions before giving responsibility over to them. Just telling them what to do is poor leadership in my books, and will teach them nothing.

By day three I was bagged and even thought of quiting, but to the tremendous commendment of my boys, they caught on fast and we went from one of the slowest det set-up times to one of the fastest. A testament to teamwork and how much of a numpty I would be without the support of others. One in particular was a freaking machine, he pounded the vixam mast into solid rock (the pegs are still there  ;D )  

I did my best to go through the rounds and setup stages with my QL3 det members, and prepare them for their tests, while at least maintaining a minimum standard for my own responsibilities. But the fact that I had to be the driver and get the mandatory 8 hrs of sleep was a HUGE impedance on our performance and prevented me from properly overseeing the det.
That's why you should do your best to get 404s BEFORE your QL3s. Otherwise you're only screwing yourself, others, and will turn your det commander into nervous wreck -- unable to sleep at night knowing he needn't bother with an alarm clock.


A


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## PuckChaser

I've never agreed with letting troops onto their QL3 without a LSVW drivers course. Even on the reserve end, the time is there to get the course done, and if people are dedicated to give up their weekends for 2 months to get driving time, why should we bend over backwards to accomidate them for summer employment?

CRC, your staff definately did no planning when they organized the detachments in that way, unless there were just so many with waivers (which I could believe).


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## career_radio-checker

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> CRC, your staff definately did no planning when they organized the detachments in that way, unless there were just so many with waivers (which I could believe).



Yes there were too many QL3's without their 404s (we had a 22 Rad-Van convoy!). I don't blame the staff. I blame CFSCE  ;D


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## Sig_Des

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Yes there were too many QL3's without their 404s (we had a 22 Rad-Van convoy!). I don't blame the staff. I blame CFSCE  ;D



Not all the blame should be thrown at CFSCE. A big part of it is a) CoC not ensuring that training requirements are filled. B) Ops and Training staff knowing that training requirements aren't filled, and still nominating pers, and C) CoC willing to fill out waivers left and right.

On the CFSCE end...No 404s? No course.


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## MOOXE

Considering were short and undermanned, its better to send these members on course without 404's than have then wait in pat platoon for who knows how long. Theres no point for any soldier to be wasting away in pat platoon while theres room for them to be training. Ofcourse an effort should be made to load them on an LSVW course. Its only a small hardship to endure (a week in the field!) while on a QL3 compared to what else they will face in thier careers.


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## Sig_Des

MOOXE said:
			
		

> Considering were short and undermanned, its better to send these members on course without 404's than have then wait in pat platoon for who knows how long. Theres no point for any soldier to be wasting away in pat platoon while theres room for them to be training. Ofcourse an effort should be made to load them on an LSVW course. Its only a small hardship to endure (a week in the field!) while on a QL3 compared to what else they will face in thier careers.



The problem is that then you get the pers sent directly to a unit from their 3's, without their 404's, it becomes a burden on the unit to organise training that these people should have already had. Especially if that member gets tasked into a, say, drivers position.

If it's such a huge problem, then add driver wheeled to the 3's course.


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## 211RadOp

Back in the day (yes I am old), upon completion of Basic, we went to CFSAL and completed the drivers course to qual on SC, SW and 3 Tonne. When we got to CFSCE for our 3s, among the training before our actual Rad Op crse, we did the LFC Dvr Wheel to qual on Iltis and 5/4 tonne. This allowed for all members of the crse to be able to drive the Rad Vans on the final Ex, so that there was no problem.

Should CFSCE run the LFC Dvr Wheel crse? IMHO yes. This will allow units, particularly in the Reg F, to be able to employ the new members in a driver capacity. If they are run at unit level, and I will use my unit as an example, this adds one more crse that the members must complete prior to being fully employable here. In the past (and I'm only going back a couple of years), we have had to run the SQ, Dvr Wheel, PCF (NCCIS or Computer Admin trg) as well as all deployment trg. If, for example, a young Sig gets here off his 3s in Aug, his schedule for the next 6 - 12 months will consist of two weeks of death by powerpoint, a month or more of predeployment trg, a Tp level Ex, a Sqn level Ex and then either an NCCIS (2 months) or Tier level trg (2 1/2 months). Throw in leave, taskings, waiting for the crses to start, driver trg and the normal Regt routine, you are looking at close to a year before the young soldier is employable. If some of this can be done while in a holding Pl, then it would greatly ease the burden upon all units.

Just my .02


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