# Contrasting the Regular Force and the Primary Reserve



## peanutshel (15 Jun 2002)

Again this debate comes to the forefront in the last thread.  I have had 28 years in the CF working with both and have found that the Reg pers who slams the Res has had a bad experience(s) with them or no experience with them. Believe me MOST Reg SR NCOs and SR OFFICERS do not feel this way.  Most Res work twice as hard to be thought of half as much.  Some differences I have noticed (and commented on at the time) are:  In the Res, a Pte would NEVER call a WO, by his first name..(In front of others)  In the Res, the Jr Ranks eat first, the Offrs last,  in the Res, a Cpl would never tell his WO that he doesn‘t "feel" like going on parade and in the Res the WO would NEVER shrug it off.  That CPL would be going on EVERY parade..  As far as promotions, twice I have seen guys that should have been career Cpls (dumb as a bag of hammers) make WO.


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## TOW2B (15 Jun 2002)

What the ****  are you smoking????Aside from a few dedicated souls the average milita rat is a slovenly soldier that lacks discipline and intestinal fortitude and makes it bad for all of them as a whole. I don‘t know from where you pulled that little speech from but it was most likely from your ***  as you have no frigg‘n idea what you are talking about.The situations you describe are so far fetched that even the most naive here shuould not believe them.Before you start spouting off about oh yeah there goes another Reg lipping off,I have served in both for the last 20 yrs and have never witnessed anything like you have described EXCEPT in the RESERVES and REG FORCE WOG UNITS..Shake your head but not too hard or the pea may fall out.


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## TOW2B (15 Jun 2002)

With reference to my above post you are not Combat Arms are you???? That would explain alot with ref. to your experiences WOGS are WOGS wherever you go and I have no time for them either be they Reg or Reserve,they just whine too much and are civies in uniform.


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## Gunner (15 Jun 2002)

If we are still fighting the reg vs res debate than the army is lost.  Accept that both bring different attributes to the army and each have their good and bad people.  

I would expect more from my reg and res soldiers, nco‘s, warrant officers and my officers than petty fights about  who is better or worse.


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## TOW2B (16 Jun 2002)

To all the poor oppressed Reservists out there who are getting their panties in a bunch I say this: In the BugTussel Fusilers you may be a Sgt or a WO but in my Platoon you are a CPL.Sure it sucks but if you want to be a soldier join the Regs nowadays you will get a pretty good deal on your past time in.Quit whining about how bad the Big bad regs are treating you and soldier on and prove yourself,respect is earned not given. 
 In my unit we have many Reservists who went Reg and are doing an excellent job (myself included) they are not bitching about how unfair life is they are doing the job so to you whiners I say PUT UP OR SHUT UP....


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## peanutshel (17 Jun 2002)

Mr Atkins:  Just how long have you been in the "system" ?  I stand by what I said when I said that MOST Regular Force personnel do not have a problem with the Reserve Force.  In my 28 + years, I have encountered very few of the guys who slam the Reserves and most of those had very limited experience in working with them.  Most are intelligent enough to realize that there are differences and find the Reserve soldier to be enthuiastic, hard working and willing to learn.


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## Zoomie (17 Jun 2002)

Sure am glad I‘m not in "your platoon"... From the sound of it, you would probably last about two seconds in a fire-fight, with your large head and all.  How do you get through a doorway? Sideways I bet.  What XCameron said hit the mark everytime.
Chill out dude, you better stay in the system, the real world will chew you up and spit you out in a hurry.


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## Recce41 (18 Jun 2002)

Tom
 I do agree with you. Damn on tours most Res. are rejects from school, yes there are good ones ie Cops, firefighters, etc. Who take time off work to do a job. Damn I had this some guy on three of my tours from the GGHG. Tour one send back month 2 for drinking, Tour 2 drinking, Tour 3 he was in my Tp, so the Tp WO and I warned him, the WO was on those tours also. He made it, with help. There were Mcpls in Tp leaders C/S who could not do the job, but said I‘m a C/C, why do I have to be a TP L gunner. Why because your stupid. They were fired to the Tp Wo C/S. Snr NCOs who are fired from a Patrol Commers C/S because they have no clue. 
 So people get some reality, the Res most weed out the weak, we do by not signing they for their next contract. Yes some do get through but if you suck ****, you can get most things.


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## Michael Dorosh (18 Jun 2002)

Recce41, I am guessing your CDS commendation wasn‘t for your skill with the written language?

Would it be possible for our esteemed heroes of the regular force not to post here when they‘ve been drinking?  I know it is tough when your wife yells at you and you need to take out all your little frustrations on somebody, but beating up on the reserves is pretty counterproductive, especially since no one really gives a rat‘s ***  what some anonymous retard on a message board says about them.  Even sergeants with the CDS Commendation (colour us all REAL impressed by that one).

If you have something positive to contribute, by all means do so, but my suggestion is to sober up first and put a bit of thought into it.  Maybe get one of your children to help with the spelling and show you where the little punctuation marks go.


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## Recce41 (18 Jun 2002)

If your so down on my writing skills, buddy you just proved my point. So the truth does hurt! And what do we have Grizzly old vet?


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## toms3 (18 Jun 2002)

Ok...I have had it!  Listen...the only whining I am hearing is coming from the Reg force guys.  Whining about Reservists.  I have done my time with both...and the one point that I can agree with Tom about is the fact that both Reg and Res have numpties.  During work up training a few years ago there were reg force pers that were combat arms but could not hit the side of a barn with a nuke, or do the BFT.  Both had guys/gals that were grossly out of shape.  So...all of you...give your head a shake...instead of whining and complaining about each other...get over it and find a way to make it workâ€¦. there are a lot of examples in other countries where Reg and Res work together.  . I am getting sick of this counter productive b**ching.


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## Sharpey (18 Jun 2002)

I can‘t beleive I‘m replying to this thread, as it is so childish. But why bother even comparing Regs to Res and vice versa. They are almost uncomparatable. They have different roles!

We (Res) are an augmentation force are we not? Therefore we should not be compared. There are schmuks in both forces, as in any place of employment, thats life.

I sit back and wait for the next foolish round of attack...


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## spacemarine (18 Jun 2002)

Michael Dorosh why don‘t you make a rebuttal to Recce41‘s comments instead of insulting him personally. He‘s easily one of the most experienced guys on here. Show some respect and obviously you don‘t know what he got his CDS commendation for.

There are slack bags in both the reg force and reserves but how can you even compare the two forces? 7 weeks from civi to ql qualified or half of a year? Of course one course is not equal to the other one. Regs have all year to do their job so they will be better at it. Reserves fill a different role and only have limited time.


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## toms3 (18 Jun 2002)

Recce41....I think I know that GG...with out mentioning any names...was one of the tours Kosivo?

Spacemarine â€¦Personally, I have great respect for Recce41 and other Reg force pers.  But the respect should go both ways.  I have never done anything to a reg force member to deserve the crap I hear.  I have been in 12 years.  I have worked my butt offâ€¦sacrificed a lot of time with my family and work to the militaryâ€¦I believe that I, along with other reservists should receive the same respect as well.  Alsoâ€¦donâ€™t say Reg soldiers do their job betterâ€¦that just a generalization.  If you want to say the Reg has more experience, fineâ€¦but that does not mean he/she does it better.  I know of a Res pers being a 2IC of a Reg force section in Bosnia.  He proved himself and received the respect of the sections.  If youâ€™re a slacker..youâ€™re a slacker..full time or not..end of story.   Here is a sacrifice for youâ€¦during work up for tours many reservist get displaced from their families.  So, at the end of the day..many Reg force personnel get in their cars and head home to there families, friends, dogs and homes......the reservist goes to his shack to phone home.


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## TOW2B (19 Jun 2002)

Yes it is a good thing a couple of you aren‘t in my section!!! IF you bothered to read my posts and were one of the motivated discliplined soldiers I was talking about you would realize I have no problem with you or those like you....However if you are a slug and actually one of the clowns that I was talking about then yes you deserve to get mad ...so mad you get off of your asses and improve yourself.
 As for experience I have it in droves,for those who doubt it here ya go :Joined the RES Infantry in 1983,stayed on until 1987,Joined the Reg Infantry in 1987.Since 1990 I have been on 7 tours including Roto 0 Croatia 1992 where I was wounded in action (awarded Wound Stripe in 1996),I have been in 3 firefights and survived them all . So ZOOMIE tell me all about your extensive experience in combat.......


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## toms3 (19 Jun 2002)

Tom...take a pill man.  Did a reservist piss in your cornflakes or burn your coffee.   I guess you didn‘t read my post.  I respect you guys 100%.  I know you have been in the sh*t.  I know you guys have tonnes more experience.   I am also sorry you have had slugs in your section that were reservist...that actually is embarrassing, because I consider myself and many of my peers to be well motivated soldiers, (maybe its a unit thing).  I have been in since 91...I joined when I was 29...and I still run the young bucks into the ground during PT.    Its not the reservistâ€™s fault things are the way they are.  Its been building for years.  Other countries reserves have a large number of Ex reg force pers...not in ours..buy the time the Reg guy gets out he has had enough of the military.  So the lessons learned from that experience of yours does not get spread around.   

When I say respect, there are many types, there is the â€œgood in a fightâ€ respect, the â€œgood leaderâ€ respect.  Lets not forget the â€œlots of experienceâ€ respect.  For the reservist itâ€™s the â€œsacrifice of his time and family to serveâ€ respect.  Your 9 â€“ 5 job (and we both know its like this most of the time).. is the military.  You have most of your weekends off (excluding tours)...you go home at night.   A reservist works 9-5 at his job or school, then parades with his unit, goes on at least one exercise per month and in the summer..when most of his buddies are drinking beer on the beachâ€¦the reservist is on course, instructing or on an exercise.  Also the vast majority of us want to go on tours and put our family, work, and school on hold.   So we might not have the experience you have but we do make our sacrificesâ€¦.different then yours but still sacrifices.

Anywayâ€¦Tom...come on...there are lots of Reg slugs...I know it and you know it.  I am rambling here...just get over it and come up with a solution to make it work.


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## Zoomie (19 Jun 2002)

Got in a big fight with my wife the other night.  I consider that to be a worthy battle.  No wound stripe though, I knew when to duck.
Oh, and I‘m not in the Reserves.


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## Recce41 (19 Jun 2002)

Well Z
 Your a Pilot, that takes it. Yes res Airforce I fine are the some as Regs. But look at the Airforce, when you call you officers by their first name. 
 Tom between you and I, we have 6.5 yrs in as some call it Theatre. Some of the people have about 6.5 yrs of Burger flipping. 
 I have served with some good Res, but they are few and far between.  We both have received commandations for actions in Bosnia. So I think we have one check mark some do not.


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## TOW2B (20 Jun 2002)

THIS POST IS NOT AN ATTACK ON ANY PERSON IN PARTICULAR JUST A GENERAL STATEMENT REFLECTING THE COMMON LAMENT OF THE PART TIME SOLDIER SO DON‘T GET YOUR KNICKERS IN A KNOT!!!!

  Yes there are times when you are away from friends and family THAT IS PART OF THE JOB..I didn‘t consider the 7 months I spent away from my home on course in CTC Gagetown as a "sacrifice" how can you??
   You are being paid to do the job.I know that most people would rather be sitting on the beach drinking beer and well if that is the mind set perhaps a change of job is required.You can‘t have the benefits without paying something back..in the Army this something is TIME.
   The common whine I hear is how the Reservist goes the extra mile.. How is this??? You signed up for the job so do it or get out,I will bet you dollars to donuts that nobody twisted your arm to go on course or on tasking. Chances are it was a choice by the individual to take the course or tasking for a couple of reasons such as..Pay,Carreer Advancement,Adventure,etc.. there can be no sacrifice if you are being compensated for it by getting either..UN Pay,TD,Field Operations Allowance. If leaving friends and family behind is considered to be a Big Sacrifice then look for another line of work because it is part and parcel of ACCEPTING THE QUEEN‘S SCHILLING


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## toms3 (20 Jun 2002)

Tom.  I never took anything you said as an attack, your last post made a good point.  I love my military job, I would not give it up.  Your right, no one twisted my arm to go on courses or tasks for weeks or months.  I would go on every course or tasking available if I could (and not for the money).  If I did not have a good job when I joined, I too would have went Reg.  I just don‘t get why the Reg (army) has a problem with the Res (army).    Like I said...itâ€™s not the individual Res soldiers fault, it can‘t be.  Is it the top managements fault, the policy makers that have some how caused this problem?  Why don‘t the navy and airforce have the same degree of problems?  When I train my troops (garrison or in the field), I keep in mind that these guys may be needed to augment the Regs in some way and they need to be "good to go".    Tom..what you have us do...how would you use us?    What would solve the problem?

Cheers


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## TOW2B (20 Jun 2002)

I‘ll tell you where it should start first of all get rid of the weekend wonder courses taught by unqualified and unexperienced NCOs.I have taugh on several Reserve QL 3 courses and I must sy the quality of troops that we were getting was patheic,I don‘t know what is taught on a Reserve QL 2 but of all of the courses I have taught not a single one of the troops that were received shouldhave even been there,they were not much better than civies of of the street.The quality of the Reserve NCOs was very poor as well their methods of Instruction and wepons skills were very weak,as was drill and deportment..There were some exceptions but as a rule they should not have passed their JLC (which is a joke anyway).There is no reason why the Reserve Rcruit cannot be trained QL2/3  all in one shot over the summer,his would allow for standards to be maintained across the board at the basic training level.
 Reserve NCOs must have some type of assesment to go on course just like in the Regs time in should not be the deciding factor but job knowledge and skill..which is not the case now.There should be a program instituted to have reserve units conduct training with Reg forces in short there should be only one QL4,5,6A,6B standard as is not the case.


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## toms3 (20 Jun 2002)

Holy crap..Tom...something we agree on....I‘ll get the next beer.     I agree that standards are not the same and that includes PT.  The standards for the forces in general have been declining.  The BFT use to be done over 2 days.  Now its a 13 Km + firemenâ€™s carry.   The BFT is not monitory in the Res.  Its left up to the individual to stay fit and there is nothing that a Res SNCO can do to   

I have been lucky enough that most of my courses (last being 6A) were all run by the Reg force.  I feel that the standard should be the same.  Your not going to be able to put 6 months worth of stuff into 2 months and you wouldn‘t have too.  There is equipment covered on the Reg courses that we will never see.  So if the reg force course teaches A, B, C and D. If "C" is for A.D.A.T.S. (example only).  We will never see it...So the Res course would be A,B and D  Keep the same standard, but only teaching what is absolutely relevant.   Another thing is that the Reg force guys have excellent faculties on base for physical training.  Unless youâ€™re on full time staff the average Res soldiers has to pay for a gym membership.  So if more facilities could be made available, then actually setting a standard that must be met....that would also help.   

Cheers


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## Sharpey (20 Jun 2002)

I have to agree on the standards issue. I‘ve been in the Reserves a meer 9 years or so. My QL2/QL3 ran the entire summer, 8 weeks straight if I remember correctly, plus GMT back at my Regiment prior to my departure to Pet in the summer. It was RCR run with both REG and RES instructors. Apparently, the year before that the RCD taught and the year before that, the Airborne!
 I have seen things deteriorate over the years. I don‘t have a big issue with Unit run courses, as I took two QL4‘s at my Regiment. But, when I hear about what is taught on the new BMQ‘s, it‘s a disgrace. Lowering the age to 16 now to? (RES anyway), wow! REG and RES standards should be equal, if not, how can a Reservist be expected to properly augment the REG‘s when the time comes? Leaving out equipment shortages as that is a major issue in the RES and will never be fixed!


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## Spanky (20 Jun 2002)

Having the same standard, in terms of dress, deportment, dedication, and professionalism, on courses, should be a given.  Frequently it is not.  That should not be.
I can‘t think of any reserve instructor who is not lamenting the loss of more demanding courses.  Course content, as well as restrictions imposed by political correctness has been foisted on us from on high.
Expecting reservists to attend 7 month courses as routine is not possible, however.
Eliminating kit that reservists will never see is only a partial solution.  Distance learning, and other more creative solutions would help as well.


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## cs11sunray (21 Jun 2002)

I think we need to take one pace step back, and keep in mind that Regular and Reserve units have different resources and focuses. Each side will claim the other is better off, and there is generally alot of hair pulling and chest beating about the issue.
  The point is each component has a role to perform, and each component does what it can, given it‘s imposed limitations.
  We should move past this, and concentrate on on solutions, not on our differences


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## peanutshel (22 Jun 2002)

You‘re right on.  When I first joined the military over 27 years ago, the Regs hating the Res was a fact of life and the majority of Regs felt that way.  It slowly has gotten better where now just a few of the die hard "old boys" still feel that way, but they are probably the same ones that think females don‘t belong in the military except as cooks & clerks. (Let‘s not even go there ha ha) I was initially a bit shocked to see the issue is still "thriving", but after thinking it over, I believe that it‘s the minority and things ARE getting better.


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## cs11sunray (22 Jun 2002)

I think you are right when you say that things are getting better. I‘ve seen an improvement in the 8 years I‘ve been in.


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## bossi (24 Jun 2002)

I‘m really disappointed by the childish remarks earlier in this thread (I‘ve been busy and away on TD, so I haven‘t been reading this until now).

Winners are not whiners, and
A loser is a loser, whether Reg or Res.

I‘ve only got 25 years in, thus I hope you will forgive me for being bored by purile insults by "anonymous heroes" (and, no - I‘m not going to "whip mine out" so we can compare).

As Albert Einstein said:
Not everything that counts is counted, and
not everything that is counted counts.

Adieu for now - I‘ve got better things to do (and read) - I look forward to reading intellectually stimulating comments elsewhere.

P.S. (if somebody were as good a soldier as he purports to be, perhaps he‘d realise his "signature block" in not in accordance with QR&Os/CFAOs/DAODs ... or could it be that his insecurity/lack of self-esteem leads him to believe there are one set of rules for everybody else, but a special set of rules for him ... ?  Perhaps he should reconsider peeing in the pickle jar)


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## peanutshel (25 Jun 2002)

Hee hee - now that makes perfect sense!  :dontpanic:


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## Suffield (25 Jun 2002)

Finally!!!
An island of sanity, in a sea of self pity, mediocrity and self loathing. Some people just can‘t stand the truth. Self styled importance = infantile issues of self worth.

I would propose that if this issue, ever again, rears it‘s childish head that the more mature users of this forum not answer, debate, defend or attack. Just let it die the it‘s well deserved, unanswered death.

If you find a need to bolster your ego by discounting others who try to the best of their abilities, go to SOCNET. They will surely tell you how to get your cranium out of your rectum, ...without the niceties.


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## toms3 (26 Jun 2002)

Yes...bossi and suffield.  You are right.  However, it may be a childish argument..but its there, its a underliying problem at all ranks and it does not help.  I have experance this first hand and it is a form of prejuduce that is perpetuated.  A solution needs to be worked out to stop that way of thought.  We just can‘t stick our heads in the sand...


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## Harry (26 Jun 2002)

And if this is the only topic we can truly bitche about, then the army must A-Okay.

No wonder I have other things to do.


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## Gordon Angus Mackinlay (26 Jun 2002)

ladies and Gentlemen,
Why reserves do not work when called up  in peacetime, from the BBC.
Yours, Jock in Sydney

Tuesday, 25 June, 2002, 16:42 GMT 17:42 UK 
US reservists feel the strain
Thousands of US reservists have been mobilised

By Nick Childs 
BBC Pentagon correspondent  

One of the hallmarks of the US war on terror since 11 September has been the number of National Guard and reservist personnel who have been mobilised. 

They are everywhere, from the front lines in Afghanistan to airport security lines back home. 


The Navy Operations Centre, in the Pentagon, is run by reservists

Thousands volunteered for duty, but for many the length of the campaign brings special problems. 

Deep in the heart of the Pentagon is the US Navy Operations Centre. It is the hub of communications between the fleets and the Chief of Naval Operations, the head of the US Navy. 

Vital role 

When the USS Cole was blown up in Yemen two years ago, the first call the commanding officer made was to the operations centre. 

It is run by reservists, people who give up their time - and in some cases put their jobs on hold - to work there. 

Commander Neal Bundo, of the US Navy Reserve, is the battle watch captain in charge of the centre. 

He is also one of the 85,000 National Guard and reservists - men and women - currently mobilised for duty. 

"Most people I‘ve talked to say they want to know some way they can contribute to the effort since 11 September," he says. 

"I am privileged I can do so at this level." 

‘Total force‘ 

But while he says his position is a privilege, it has its strains too. The Pentagon operates what it calls a "total force" strategy. 

The reserves are indispensable in time of war. But as the months drag on, some are worrying increasingly about will happen to their civilian jobs and their families. 

The Pentagon is having to deal more and more with questions of morale. 

The Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for reserve affairs is Dr John Winkler. 

How long are we going to pay the employee? How long should they remain on the job? The government doesn‘t provide any benefit for that 

Peter Liashek, US Navy reserve  
"We have been encouraging the services to bring people on active duty in the fewest numbers needed for the shortest period required," he says. 

"Recently we have been working with them to advise us on how some demobilisations can occur." 

Peter Liashek is a dental surgeon in Germantown, Maryland, and a captain in the US Navy Reserve. 

Many reservists have had help from their employers over and above the call of duty since 11 September. 

Salaries made up 

As well as keeping their jobs open, the companies have paid the difference between their employees‘ military and civilian earnings. 

But Mr Liashek is his own boss in a small practice which would present its own problems if he suddenly got the call to serve. 

"Everything stops. So my concern is the employees," he says. 

"How long are we going to pay the employee? How long should they remain on the job? The government doesn‘t provide any benefit for that." 

But for Mr Liashek and his family, for other reservists and for Americans in general, the country changed course on 11 September. 

Whatever the upheavals, he says he would have no problems if the call came tomorrow.


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## toms3 (26 Jun 2002)

I am starting to feel that this problem will not be solved here...so if we can only come up with b*tch*s and no solution...maybe its time to move onto other subjects.


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## Disturbance (3 Jul 2002)

Me and about 180 reservists have been busting our balls to keep our jobs for the upcoming roto. We have been getting the cock left right and center to make sure our slack and idle bodies dont look like the retarded younger brother of the regforce guys. Being able to watch Delta Coy from the outside (as I have a different posting) they have been acting more professional than most of the other units whether it be on parade or on patrol. And I have the regs say it to. Sure we have our share of ****pumps but so does everyone else. 

As we do our job and our cocky overconfident attitudes to ourselves its all good.


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## Pte Lickers (31 May 2003)

Im just wondering what exactly is the beef between the reg force and the reserve forces.  What does the reg force think about the reserves (in particular infantry)

Also i have question to learn as much as possible about feild operations I generally approach master corporals and seargants and ask them questions (in a social setting)  I ask them for tips and tricks for the feild and dos and do nots.  For the most part they are good hints until a individual told me the best idea if you carry the carl g is to get the BFA for it so mud doesnt get in it.  My section commander laughed his ***  off when i asked for it to be issued to me.  I felt F***ing dumb when i thought about it.
My question is  what tips and tricks can i trust or is that just dependent on who told me?


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## Jarnhamar (1 Jun 2003)

"Anything anyone tells you is a lie"
You have to decide for yourself whats true and whats not.
"The universe is my eyes and ears, all else is hearsay" hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

Some tips will be good, others bad. It‘s up to you to take them all in and decide for yourself what works and what doesn‘t.
Reg force complains about the reserves. Reserves complain about the cadets. Its the natural pecking order thats all


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## typhoon85 (1 Jun 2003)

If you do a search of these forums you will find some answers to that question. That topic has been covered before


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## Soldier of Fortune (1 Jun 2003)

BFA? What is it?


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## Jarnhamar (1 Jun 2003)

I saw a BFA last week while in my platoon hide. It was going through my ruck sack.  Stands for "Big F**king Animal".
Massive raven, about 70 pounds! I ran up to it waving my arms trying to scare it away but it just looked up at me, shook its head then went back to sorting through my ration pack. I decided to skip lunch due to the BFA.


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## Korus (1 Jun 2003)

Try putting that on the end of your rifle.. I‘m sure it wouldn‘t be too amused..


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## Pikache (1 Jun 2003)

And there‘s story about a BFA who hit a pl comd‘s ruck, which just happened to be in the middle of a hide but missed everyone else‘s...

Animals in pet must be crazy.


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## SNoseworthy (1 Jun 2003)

In a nut shell, historically, the Reserves were alienated by the creation of a standing army. The Reserves thought for many many decades (some probably still do think this way) that they are all that is needed to defend Canada - that the citizen soldier will triumph in our times of need and defend the country valiantly (the Militia Myth is what Granastein coined it). Ever since the Regular Army was formed, especially in the early 20th century, there was a lot of animosity towards it by the Reserves, who felt they were being shoved aside in favour of a standing "useless" army. 

The fact that the Permanent Force (as the Regs were known back at the turn of the century) ignored their duties in training the reserves, and that most PF members had next to no military knowledge whatsoever to earn the respect of the reserves with, the Reserves didn‘t respect the Regular Force. As well, the Regs saw the Reserves as holding them back from being real soldiers since the government at that time designated the PF to be solely for the training of the reserves. 

And so is the historical basis for the rift between the regular force and the reserves. More recently, I highly suspect that since the Regular Force has gotten the better part of all equipment and duty in the past half century, that only made the Reserves despise the Regular force more.

Personally, I don‘t see a lot of animosity towards the Reg force being shown by people I know in the militia. However, it probably depends more on where you are in the nation.


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## nex (1 Jun 2003)

May I suggest that it‘s more of a jealous nature with reserves not getting all of the toys the reg forces get?    :mg:   Or the training they get?  Or that they do full time, what a lot of reservists want to do but can‘t?  Some people can‘t or won‘t leave their families or careers but would like to do what regforce does.  My roommate is ex-regforce and he thinks everyone is just a weekend warrior, but still gives us reservists more credit than the average joe for signing on that dotted line in the first place.  pfft..


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## Michael Dorosh (2 Jun 2003)

May I suggest that discussing this at all is stupid and counter-productive at best, and trolling and flamebait at worst?

I can‘t think of a single person that would honestly say, today, that the Militia is all that is necessary to complete Canada‘s military tasks.  The idea is ludicrous, and the Militia would be the first to admit to it.  I don‘t doubt that the attitude may have been strongly held at one time, but hopefully has died off long ago, perhaps when Mister Hughes shuffled off this mortal coil.  He responded to WW I by ripping the mobilization process to pieces, creating his own army out of the Militia units after renaming all the battalions, and then sending off the entire Permanent Force infantry to Bermuda, while the newly raised PPCLI went to the British Army!  Guess we didn‘t "need" them at the time.  I don‘t think the situation would be the same today - and don‘t think for a minute those unskilled Militia troops didn‘t suffer at Second Ypres, when 60 percent of them were gassed, wounded and killed in their first combat action - including the 10th and 16th Battalions, who attacked Kitchener‘s Wood Napoleon-style in tight packed ranks.

Not that the Milita today is not important; both components have serious work, and to date have pretty much done it very well.

I have nothing but respect for the regular force as an entity, and realize that since the end of the Korean War, it has been them that has kept the Canadian Army, Force Mobile Command, and Canadian Army (again) held in high regard in other nations.  And without the PF/Regular army, there would not have been a cadre for the CASF in either WW II or Korea.

Militia augmentees in places like Cyprus, Bosnia, Afghanistan have been just that - augmentees, and I think have proven themselves capable - given the proper training, and that means full time - of operating alongside the regulars.

But to suggest we could do away with the Regulars - absolute nonsense.  I wouldn‘t join the Regular Army for all the money in the world, and if I tried, they would never take me.  My hat is off to them for doing the nation proud, and to be perfectly honest, doing things on an individual level that I would not be capable of doing.

That‘s why they‘re there, and I‘m not.  And I‘m personally grateful to them for doing it.

As for any Regular Force troop who would stick his nose up at the Militia; that‘s his right, maybe he‘s even earned some right to feel that way.  But it‘s his loss.  

We‘ve gone over all this "we‘re all part of the same team" crap often enough on this forum to realize instinctively that it‘s true.    

Different components - different purposes.  That‘s why there are two components.

Right?

Hats off to both of them.


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## WINDWOLF (2 Jun 2003)

I served with some of the militia in Gagetown &
found them to be seroius,diligent & pretty professional group of boys. They learned quick & retained the training. Ambushing phase 3 & 4 officer cadets sure was a lot of fun for them.

Never had a problem with them,but had to step on some necks of the reg guys who thought the were head & shoulds above the militia. They may not have the training but as long as they show desire & committment, they should be show the respect all serving members are givin.      :sniper:


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## Fader (2 Jun 2003)

Inspite of my knocking them every chance I get, I like the reserves.  While at times it‘s conservative nature can result in brutal mismanagement, it‘s still, at the very least, a more interesting organization to be a part of than most.  
I agree more with Dominas‘s post, except I don‘t think jealousy is the only thing that motivates rifts among reserves and reg force people.  I again look at human psycology; that being, most reserves call themselves soldiers and take pride in that fact, just as reg force members do; but as Michael Dorosh pointed out, the reg force do more of the dirty work that many reservists are either incapable or unwilling of doing.  Whatsmore, reserves opperate on a more "do what you can" sort of mentality whereas the regular forces opperate on a "do what you‘re told" mentality as they are more obliged to do so.  Worse, since many reserves have a fraction of the experience that most regforce do ("Some of those guys have forgetten as much as I have learnt" is a common sentiment among alot of us) it‘s only natural that such an attitude exists.
It‘s no differant than any profession where that is the case.  If you take a full time coder who has worked for a large software corporation for 10 years, he‘ll obviously have a more condescending attitude to a young student who has done a year long internship and worked part time in the summers for small software companies, or on individual projects.


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## Lenn Wilson (20 Mar 2005)

Hey, first off I apologise if this is a stupid bunch of questions, but Im curious. 

  Its obvious our army in whole is underfunded, and we are lacking in numbers. But which is more important, the Reserve portion of the army or the reg forces? It has always seemed to me, that the reserves were a last resort or a 'just incase' but it seems bigger then our reg force.  They get sent overseas just as often and they are having more money pumped into them. There are alot more recruiting advertisements for reserves then reg forces. Are we as a country not able to support the growth of a full time army? I have nothing but respect for the reserves (havieng just finished my own BMQ and SQ courses last summer) and I am in no way trying to 'bash' them, but i would like to see that we are not takeing steps back in how we are developing as a country. I dont want more dependance on american forces to keep us 'safe'.

  If any of my info is wrong, please tell me.


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## Lost_Warrior (20 Mar 2005)

Just remember:

-It's the reservist who gives up his vacation for the Army.   The reg force member (unless deployed or doing work up training) gets his nice vacation.

-It's the reservist that gives up his weekends for the army. The reg force member gets to relax with the wife, kids and friends.

-It's the reservist who juggles a civilian job and a military job. The reg force member has but one.

-It's the reservist who manages school, studying and the army.  Not usually the case for a reg force member.

-It's the reservist who risks losing his job for the army.   Not the case for the reg force,

-It's the reservist who is dedicated enough to do this.   Think about that the next time anyone wants to bad mouth a reservist.


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Mar 2005)

Well, here we go again. Thanks for dredging up this ancient topic. Everytime it get's put to bed, someone decides it's time to get the mudslinging going again. Oh well, watch and shoot, I guess.


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## Lost_Warrior (20 Mar 2005)

This topic was 3rd from the top of the list when I replied.....


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## Jarnhamar (20 Mar 2005)

Hey i remember old "warrant" windwolf 

Lenn Wilson, if you search through numerous threads regarding the regular forces and reserves I think you'll come to the conclusion that they each play an important role for the Canadian Forces. Each has it super soldiers and each has it's morons.

You can't take the regular force and hold the reserves to the same standard. The reserves are not about being career soldiers (though some pull it off somehow). The reserves is about being a part time soldier, part time student/teacher/cop/bum whatever.

Which is more important? I don't think it's a fair question to ask. You obviously need a full time military and that full time military needs reserves to suppliment their ranks as we are seeing in Iraq.


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## Sh0rtbUs (20 Mar 2005)

Kinda like asking which makes a Sexy Martini, the Vodka or Schnapps? It doesnt really matter, because its not half the drink if you take one away...

They compliment each other...


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## pbi (20 Mar 2005)

> Its obvious our army in whole is underfunded, and we are lacking in numbers. But which is more important, the Reserve portion of the army or the reg forces? .



For high readiness, the Regular Army is required. For sustainment, rapid expansion and for connection with Canadians where they live, the Reserve is necessary, unless we intend to have a Regular Army so huge that it can do all of this on its own. No Western nation that I know of, including the US, does this.



> It has always seemed to me, that the reserves were a last resort or a 'just incase' but it seems bigger then our reg force.



What do you mean "bigger than the Reg Force?" Canada's Army Reserve is smaller than the Regular Army. Reserves are just that: a "reserve"-but they need not be a last resort. In domestic emergencies in many areas of Canada the local Reserve unit can respond more quickly than the nearest Regular Army unit which may be many hours away by road. This is one of the reasons that the Army is placing incerasing responsibility on the Reserve for humanitarian emergency operations in Canada.



> They get sent overseas just as often and they are having more money pumped into them.



No, they do not get sent overseas "just as often". The Army uses a figure of about 10-20% of contingent strength for Reserve participation in overseas operations, with the recent exception being Op BRONZE in Bosnia that was almost all Reservists. The other 80-90% are Regulars. And the Reserves do not get "..more money pumped into them", I can assure you that the capital and operating budgets of the Regular Army are many times those of the Reserve, but for good reasons. Higher readiness forces do not come for free.



> There are alot more recruiting advertisements for reserves then reg forces.



Really? None of the ads I've seen recently have been for the Reserves. We do have advertising for the Reserves, but I do not believe that the Res gets more advertising effort than the Regular Force (even if we do need it...)



> Are we as a country not able to support the growth of a full time army? I have nothing but respect for the reserves (having just finished my own BMQ and SQ courses last summer) and I am in no way trying to 'bash' them, but i would like to see that we are not takeing steps back in how we are developing as a country. I dont want more dependance on american forces to keep us 'safe'.



How does having an effective Reserve make us more dependent on the US? I'd say that as part of an overall improvement of our military capability, a strong Reserve goes a long way toward making us less dependent.



> If any of my info is wrong, please tell me



Unfortunately, it seems to me that almost everything you posted was wrong. I wonder what you were taught, or what you heard, during your Reserve service that led you to these opinions? You need to check your facts a bit better.

Cheers


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## Lenn Wilson (21 Mar 2005)

lol Well it seems all my information was wrong. (what i was taught during BMQ and SQ has nothing to do with the subject.) And well, this is me checking my facts. Thanks guys, and sorry for opening this subject again, I have been doing a little looking around since i opend My account here yesterday and I will make sure to do some more  before i put up any more posts.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Mar 2005)

Thanks, we appreciate it.


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## pbi (23 Mar 2005)

> (what i was taught during BMQ and SQ has nothing to do with the subject.)



Normally, when one belongs to an organization, one tries to learn a little bit about it. I just assumed that you would have, too, either during formal lectures or in less formal ways such as discussions in the mess, pamphlets, recruiting info, etc.

Cheers.


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## Gunner (23 Mar 2005)

This thread is a couple of years old now and I'm going to lock it.  If anyone desperately wants it back open, PM me, or start a new one.


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