# ROTP



## HYBRID (10 Nov 2007)

Straight to the point. 1) I am already a commercially licensed helicopter pilot. 2)7 years service in the Primary Reserves. 3)Bilingual and I already hold a college diploma in Police Foundations and am currently 4 credits into my Bachelor of Arts Degree through RMC via Distance Study.----All that being said I am currently on the CEOTP waiting list for the Pilot Occupation and am considering switching to ROTP,  where do I fit in? I already know there is a backlog in training for new pilots and there is a possibility that the Airforce may freeze hiring new pilots in this program.  Secondly if I choose to go ROTP how many credits will I require to obtain my degree through civilian universities?  Correct me if I am wrong but I have heard only 15 credits total.  I appreciate any feedback and suggestions.  Thanks


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## Roy Harding (10 Nov 2007)

Let me help you out here:



			
				HYBRID said:
			
		

> Straight to the point.
> 
> 1) I am already a commercially licensed helicopter pilot.
> 
> ...



Now - isn't that easier to read?
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## Shamrock (10 Nov 2007)

HYBRID said:
			
		

> Secondly if I choose to go ROTP how many credits will I require to obtain my degree through civilian universities?



That depends on the university and the program.


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## Meridian (10 Nov 2007)

I'm still not following why you would want to switch from CEOTP to ROTP.   Particularly as you are already a student at RMC?  You make mention of the fact that you want to be a pilot, but that that may not occur.

So what other trade are you interested in under ROTP?   What is your goal here?. To join the forces, or to become a pilot?  Your education seems to be something you are just trying to complete (which is fine), but you need to decide where you want to go first before anyone can suggest what program will best get you there.


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## HYBRID (10 Nov 2007)

I am currently at the Aircrew Selection Phase with regard to my Component Transfer and from conversations with my recruiter and a Liasion Officers in the Airforce, I have been advised that they may close CEOTP pilots applicants due to a major backlog and the fact that there are those who have been "in" the airforce for over a year and have yet to begin their flight training.  

Further mentioning that if I switched to ROTP I could obtain my degree in approx. 18-24 months in a university in BC (where Im at right now) or of course RMC on campus and then be guaranteed to start my flight training as soon as I complete my degree.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Finally, I have heard that the Airforce is actually short on helicopter pilots and all new recruits just what fighters and me already being a Commercially Licensed Helicopter Pilot with 7 years service in Reserves they said I would be a shoe in even if they dont want any more pilots just because I am already "qualified".  Although I want to continue my service in the Forces I would not enlist in any other occupation other than pilot.

My questions here are ambiguous and I apologize, and I appreciate hearing others 2 cents on these matters.


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## aesop081 (10 Nov 2007)

HYBRID said:
			
		

> guaranteed to start my flight training as soon as I complete my degree.  Please correct me if I am wrong.



Wrong. I have  RMC grads around where i work that have been waiting for a long time just to go to PFT in Portage.


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## Meridian (10 Nov 2007)

So if I understand correctly, you want to go ROTP, but still as a Pilot, if (and only if) CEOTP closes, or if it will be a faster go of getting your wings?

I don't know how many academic credits you currently have, but *most* university degrees that are worth any salt at all are a MIN of 3 years worth of credits.  Generally  5 courses a semester * 2 semesters = 10 courses * 3 years = 30 courses...  Most engineering or "advanced" degrees require 4 years.    You may be able to find an associate degree, or some credit from your college coursework, which will eat up some electives, perhaps a full year, depending.  So if that is the case, on a 3 year program, you'd be looking at 2 years of schooling....   but then you also have to consider what the CF will accept as a degree for the Pilot trade....

How many credits do you have left in your RMC program?  If you were going full time, how quick could you do it?


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## HYBRID (10 Nov 2007)

Meridian said:
			
		

> So if I understand correctly, you want to go ROTP, but still as a Pilot, if (and only if) CEOTP closes, or if it will be a faster go of getting your wings?



Your right on with how I am looking at this whole situation.

I have 6 credits so far through RMC, so I figured if I get permission to do a course "overload" I could complete my degree in the 2 years as you mentioned or a bit less.

Just another thing I'm 24 yrs old right now and I have no problem putting the time in to achieve my dream/goal with the Military as long as there is some sort of guarantee with regards to the time frame.  I know that nothing said or promised is etched in stone with the military(in constant flux), but at the same time however, I am sacrificing my civilian career as a pilot right now and have turned down great job offers to pursue this and at already 8 months since I initiated my component transfer I am close to giving up on it.


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## aesop081 (10 Nov 2007)

HYBRID said:
			
		

> as long as there is some sort of guarantee with regards to the time frame.



You wont get one


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## CFR FCS (11 Nov 2007)

HYBRID, The only short cut to being selected as a pilot is to classed as a Skilled applicant. That way you would bypass some of the required training. Your chances are higher as CEOTP as the competition is less as there are not many "skilled" applicants with military experience. If you are 24 years old you may not have enough pilot command time to qualify as a skilled pilot by the military. Make sure your a copy of your log book has been sent forward with your PLAR. 
Have you thought about transferring to an Air reserve unit as a pilot and then transferring to regular force? That MIGHT be possible. 400 Sgn in Borden is an Air Reserve unit that flies Griffons.


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## Zoomie (11 Nov 2007)

CFR FCS said:
			
		

> The only short cut to being selected as a pilot is to classed as a Skilled applicant.


No such thing in the RegF - if you want to fly, you learn just like everyone else.


> Have you thought about transferring to an Air reserve unit as a pilot and then transferring to regular force? That MIGHT be possible. 400 Sgn in Borden is an Air Reserve unit that flies Griffons.


This is an option - if you have 500 hrs of helo time.  Impossible to transfer to RegF from this entry plan - must start all over again.

Take it from the few of us that have "been there, done that" - there are zero guarantees in the CF and in particular the Pilot trade.  Count on about 3-4 years of training and waiting before even looking at an operational job - this is after ROTP, BOTC, whatever. 

 At present you can be assured that you will wait approximately 6-12 months for PFT, and another 4-8 months after that for BFT.  Your "number" is assigned the day you leave St-Jean.


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## CFR FCS (13 Nov 2007)

Zoomie,
CFRG definition of Skilled is qualified and former service in that occupation, i.e. a former Cf pilot who wants to re join. Anybody who has a civie licence, no matter the number of hours or qualifications, is considered semiskilled.


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## WannaBeFlyer (18 Nov 2007)

> I am sacrificing my civilian career as a pilot right now and have turned down great job offers to pursue this and at already 8 months since I initiated my component transfer I am close to giving up on it.



I know how you feel (except for sacrificing a flying career). I have been waiting on an ASC date since late August after submitting my dates to my File Manager (I am also in a CT that began about 8 months ago. I am not complaining - I get the recruiting process). Because of 
<a href="http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67664.0.html"> this thread</a>, I contacted my File Manager to see what was going on and learned that CEOTP had met their numbers for this year and that I might receive an ASC date in the new year. Not sure how that can be if they have filled their quota for CEOTP this year. (I'd suggest contacting your MCC or File Manager to be sure though)

You do have to wonder if CEOTP is going to be open as an entry plan for Pilots in years to come because of its role as a...less preferred entry plan, the amount of untrained Pilots in the system, the revised vision requirements, and the amount of candidates this change will open the Pilot trade to both ROTP and DEO. I don't think they are going to have any problems attracting more than qualified candidates next year either ROTP or DEO. I know the numbers have gone down since it was resurrected in 2006; they took 48 that year and I believe it was only 20 CEOTP this year.

Why can't you accept a civie career option and hope they call or continue working on that dream? You can fill your log book, develop your civilian career/contacts, and continue with University credits as well as the Reserves. If flying for the CF is still on the brain, you can apply to either Reg or Reserve Pilot a couple of years from now. As an outsider, I think you have a lot of great options.

Good luck with your decision; it sounds like you have been building up to flying for the CF for a long time.


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## SupersonicMax (18 Nov 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Wrong. I have  RMC grads around where i work that have been waiting for a long time just to go to PFT in Portage.



RMC grads usually do Portage during the studies (summer).  Moose Jaw wait is around a year at this time.


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## aesop081 (18 Nov 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> RMC grads *usually* do Portage during the studies (summer).  Moose Jaw wait is around a year at this time.



I know what usualy happens.......however.....


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## SupersonicMax (18 Nov 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I know what usualy happens.......however.....



Doing Portage after grad is the exception rather than the rule.  I just wanted him to be clear on that.  People that do it after grad are usually people that VOR'd to pilot during the course of their studies.

Max


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## aesop081 (18 Nov 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Doing Portage after grad is the exception rather than the rule.  I just wanted him to be clear on that.  People that do it after grad are usually people that VOR'd to pilot during the course of their studies.
> 
> Max



Roger that, thanks


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## Redeye121 (16 Feb 2008)

Hello I would like to first start off by saying this is my first post on Army.ca. That being said I have been reading on here for a few months now. I just have one question, and was hoping someone here could answer it for me. I have always dreamed of becoming an officer in the CF, especially a pilot, like that hasn't been said before . Anyways I have a question regarding what degrees from certain universities are acceptable. 

1) The CF Recruiting site tells me, "If you have a university degree from a recognized post-secondary institution."
Now that being said, if I were to get a degree say in a Bachelor of Business in Aviation Business Management from the University College of the Fraser Valley would it be "accredited from a recognized Canadian university"? 

So basically what I am asking is, what qualifies as an "accredited degree from a post-secondary institution?"

I look forward to everyones posts,
Red

P.S- Before I get the "Speak to a recruiter talk" that is not really possible for me, because right now I am living overseas in Europe.


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## HYBRID (16 Feb 2008)

To answer your question yes UCFV in Abbotsford is recognized by the CF.  A friend of mine is in his first year in that Aviation Business degree program and is has applied into the CF under ROTP.  Any university or college in Canada aslong as it is a fully accredited institution is fully recognized by the CF.  Any other questions ask I am under CEOTP as a pilot so I have acquired a bit of first hand knowledge on these things.


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## Redeye121 (16 Feb 2008)

Thank you for the quick, and informative reply HYBRID I really appreciate it. I don't know if you know the answer to this but I am going to shoot anyways, do you think that program is a good program to go into? I mean all the experience helps, even if you have to start from scratch in Moose Jaw again. And I am sure it helps your chances of being looked at, I read somewhere it considers one "semiskilled"

Cheers,
Red


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## HYBRID (16 Feb 2008)

Yes it definately helps if you just do your degree first with no help from the CF.  The thing is though if you apply under ROTP for the pilot occupation you obviously go through the whole recruiting process including all the medicals and air crew selection process in trenton, then if u pass everything, and are accepted under ROTP you are guaranteed a pilot position upon completing you degree either at a civy U or RMC.  During which time they are paying for your degree and you receive a salary and begin your training in the summer months.  By far the best entry program.


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## Quag (16 Feb 2008)

HYBRID said:
			
		

> Yes it definately helps if you just do your degree first with no help from the CF.  The thing is though if you apply under ROTP for the pilot occupation you obviously go through the whole recruiting process including all the medicals and air crew selection process in trenton, then if u pass everything, and are accepted under ROTP you are guaranteed a pilot position upon completing you degree either at a civy U or RMC.  During which time they are paying for your degree and you receive a salary and begin your training in the summer months.  By far the best entry program.



Not to mention, ROTP offers four years of pensionable time while going to school, and higher salaries up to Captain...


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