# White truck/green trailer?



## chrisf (15 Dec 2008)

Just out of curiosity, can anyone point me to any written DND policies (If such policies exist) requiring that an SMP trailer MUST be towed by an SMP truck? (A non-standard SMP trailer, we were told "Green trailers have to be towed by green trucks" which I can't actually find any policy reference to. My suggestion of "let's paint the trailer then" was grumbled at).

On a similar note, any written policy requiring a member to be in uniform to operate or be in an SMP vehicle?


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## George Wallace (15 Dec 2008)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, can anyone point me to any written DND policies (If such policies exist) requiring that an SMP trailer MUST be towed by an SMP truck? (A non-standard SMP trailer, we were told "Green trailers have to be towed by green trucks" which I can't actually find any policy reference to. My suggestion of "let's paint the trailer then" was grumbled at).
> 
> On a similar note, any written policy requiring a member to be in uniform to operate or be in an SMP vehicle?



I would say that the problem really lies in what kind of hitch the trailer has, and whether or not it requires a SMP to tow it.  If you look around, you will see that there are a wide variety of trailers being pulled by SMPs.

As for being in uniform, I have only seen Driving Regs that state that a member should be in uniform while driving, but I have seen that broken on numerous occassions by the Inf Bns in Pet, during Adventure Trg and Sports Events.


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## 211RadOp (15 Dec 2008)

The only problem I can see if towing a "green" trailer with a "white" truck is the wiring harness for the trailer lights.


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## geo (15 Dec 2008)

Remember, there are CIVY drivers who work for the various ASUs and Svc Bns - so the "driving only in uniform" rule is more like a rule of thumb...... which only works half the time.

WRT the remainder - you have to take into account the triler hitch, the connector & voltage of your service lights  AND the connector / type of braking system your trailer comes with.


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## chrisf (15 Dec 2008)

I'm just wondering if there's written policy, or if it's just transport enforcing the norm under the guise of policies that doen't exist. It's become a major irritation of mine, having people quote "regs" and "DND policy" based on things they assume.

I'm not particularly worried about the TYPE of hitch, it's easy enough to swap a pintle hook onto the a truck, or even a ball reciever onto the trailer, and with regards to the wiring, it's a non-standard trailer, so no one should bother us if we modify it...

It's got electric brakes, unfortunately, none of the SMP vehicles in our inventory have electric brakes... hence the problem, when we asked if we could just purchase a civvie truck to tow it, transport replied in a very unhelpful way "green trailers have to be towed by green trucks" (My serious suggestion of just painting the trailer was interpreted as sarcasm)


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## TN2IC (15 Dec 2008)

Send me a PM with as much detail over this issue. Location and so on... and I"ll see what magic I can bring up to help you.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Dec 2008)

Hmm... We haul around ski-doo trailers with our MILCOTS so I don't see what all the nitty picking is about  :-\


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## gaspasser (15 Dec 2008)

SMP trailers are usually built a bit higher than normal trailers.  They also have a 20-pin {?} lights plug including black out drive.  In order to tow an SMP trl on a civ pattern veh, you'd have to change out the plug assembly.  If you have a trl with electric brakes, then EME should mod the prime mover.  
As for driving/operating in or out of uniform, there are many units that do so {who shall remain nameless}.  By the regs, you should be in uniform while driving authorized details, adventure training and sports days are considered authorized CF events.  
Regards and Safe Driving this season,
BYTD


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## chrisf (15 Dec 2008)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> SMP trailers are usually built a bit higher than normal trailers.  They also have a 20-pin {?} lights plug including black out drive.  In order to tow an SMP trl on a civ pattern veh, you'd have to change out the plug assembly.  If you have a trl with electric brakes, then EME should mod the prime mover.



Getting mods done isn't a problem, "green trailers must be towed by green trucks" is however virtually a quote from our local transport section. Like I said, they were rather unhelpful.



> As for driving/operating in or out of uniform, there are many units that do so {who shall remain nameless}.  By the regs, you should be in uniform while driving authorized details, adventure training and sports days are considered authorized CF events.
> Regards and Safe Driving this season,



Any idea *what* reg? Or even where I'd look? I just have yet to find it in writing.


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## dapaterson (15 Dec 2008)

References to start:

A-LM-158-005/AG-001
http://dgmssc.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dtn/dtn2/documents/Transport_Manual_June_2008.DOC

CFAO 20-9
http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/020-09_e.asp


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## chrisf (15 Dec 2008)

DAOD 20-9 Read before, and re-read now, nothing on wearing a uniform, nothing on a green trailer.

The transport manual will have to wait till I'm on a DIN terminal again.


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## TN2IC (18 Dec 2008)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> DAOD 20-9 Read before, and re-read now, nothing on wearing a uniform, nothing on a green trailer.
> 
> The transport manual will have to wait till I'm on a DIN terminal again.




The 158-5 is our bible. Good luck.


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## chrisf (27 Feb 2009)

After much reading, I have come to the conclusion, there is no written policy requiring that the operator of an SMP vehicle must be in uniform. (I'll even add this caveat, the writers of said policy likely presumed that the vehicles would be operated in the operators dress of the day, which likel would be a uniform of sorts, however this research was originally set off after I recieved a rather lengthy chewing out for being in an SMP vehicle, in civillian attire, my dress of the day as had been ordered by the RSM. My troops then recieved a similar chewing out from the same person, being as they were in a different location in the same dress.)

I checked DAOD 20-9, the DND transport manual, some other manual I don't specificly remember the name of (DND Drivers manual? Somthing like that, it was a few weeks ago), and finally, just because if anyone's got their rear end excessively clenched about somthing, it's gagetown, I even checked the BSOs for Gagetown. Nothing. There is no written regulation that I could find requiring smone to be in uniform while operating a SMP vehicle.

If anyone would like to show me otherwise, I'd be more then happy to accept being wrong, however, as I said, it's become a major pet peeve of mine, when people quote "regulations" and "policy" based on their own assumptions and ignorance.


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## geo (27 Feb 2009)

Driver's handbook..... CFP158(5) under the old numbering system


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## chrisf (27 Feb 2009)

That's where I'll find it or that's what I read?


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## geo (27 Feb 2009)

Siggie...
There may not be a transportation regulation on the matter.... transport directives deal with transportation while dress & deportment is... the disciplinarian's home turf.

Base rules and regulations would be where I would expect to find references to the way drivers are dressed.  Because there are civy drivers who operate MSE, it would be pert difficult to have one hard and fast rule about the clothes you wear.


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## chrisf (27 Feb 2009)

Hence why I checked the Gagetown BSOs.

I have no problem with somone having a policy requiring members to be in uniform while operating SMP vehicles. It actually makes perfect sense. My problem is with being quoted regulations that don't exist. (It all stems back to transporting op-for personel, in civillian attire in SMP vehicles. After they had been ordered by the RSM to show up that was. According to our transport NCO, we couldn't do it, because it was contrary to DND policy.)


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## Michael OLeary (27 Feb 2009)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> That's where I'll find it or that's what I read?



You will also need to confirm that there are no relevant orders or instructions published by Command, Area, Base, etc., etc., etc.  Don't presume that if it's not in one manual that it's not published anywhere.  Your best course of action is to approach you local Transport Section (at the supervisory level) and ask them to produce the specific regulation their people are quoting or enforcing.


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## chrisf (27 Feb 2009)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> You will also need to confirm that there are no relevant orders or instructions published by Command, Area, Base, etc., etc., etc.  Don't presume that if it's not in one manual that it's not published anywhere.  Your best course of action is to approach you local Transport Section (at the supervisory level) and ask them to produce the specific regulation their people are quoting or enforcing.



The transport section I originally had the problem with no longer exists. 

I realise there are many levels at which the order could have come from (If it existe, I also realise such an order may have existed in the standing orders on a base which our transport NCO may have formerly worked, thus their presumption it's a general DND policy, however, I've checked many places, and I have yet to find a single published order. Which is why I'm checking here... as I've reached the point where I'm willing to conclude there is no such written policy.


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