# Is there any way to know what the INSIDE of a PMQ looks like BEFORE moving ??



## Cybelle24 (20 Mar 2006)

Hello everyone,

I'd like to know if pictures of the inside of PMQs are available somewhere. I checked on the canadian forces various websites and I found nothing. There were the measurements of each PMQs, the prices of the rent, small pics of the exterior of PMQs and that's it. But I'm curious and I'd really like to know what the inside of the PMQs look like... I'd like to know things like the measurements of every room, if there is carpet in the house or not, etc.

Does anyone know where I could find these informations ? By the way, I'm interested about Greenwood's PMQs only.

Someone gave me this link a while ago (http://www.14wing.dnd.ca/admin_accomd/index_u_01e.htm) that was supposed to lead to a page where there were pics of the inside of Greenwood's PMQs but it doesn't work anymore.


Thanks in advance !!


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## orange.paint (20 Mar 2006)

I'm not sure if this will help but you are entitled to a "house hunting trip" but its called a "inspection trip" for pmq's or something to that effect.Usually a couple weeks before posting they pay to you go out and see if you will accept the PMQ.

If your just looking for detailed photo I really can't say.They did however e mail me floor plans with dimensions prior to my move.Best bet talk to your royal lapage guy/girl.


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## scoutfinch (20 Mar 2006)

Beige walls (I think that is what you would call that colourless colour!),  hardwood floors, unfinished basements, bathrooms in which you can hardly change your mind let alone move around, brown rubber slip mats on hardwood stairs, bad kitchen flooring, oak cabintry in kitchens that always remind me of caskets... I think that pretty much captures the essence of a PMQ. 

 With respect to the sizes of the rooms, imagine a small but comfortable room clearly designed for functionality... and then reduce the size of the room by 30% and remove all vestiges of function... viola -- you now have the average room of a PMQ.

PMQs are small.  No one will ever accuse you of living in the Taj Mahal... but I have seen some of the most creative decorating done in PMQs that have turned the building from a house to a home.


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## Bzzliteyr (20 Mar 2006)

You got rubber slip mats on your stairs?? NO fair!!


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## scoutfinch (20 Mar 2006)

Yes... the problem was that they were impossible to keep clean without scrubbing the grooves regularly with a toothbrush and despite being the color of a tim's with double cream, they were stained from many years of occupants marching up and down stairs with their outdoor footware... oh yeah -- and did I mention that ground-in boot polish DID NOT come out.... EVER.


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## Cybelle24 (20 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Beige walls (I think that is what you would call that colourless colour!),  hardwood floors, unfinished basements, bathrooms in which you can hardly change your mind let alone move around, brown rubber slip mats on hardwood stairs, bad kitchen flooring, oak cabintry in kitchens that always remind me of caskets... I think that pretty much captures the essence of a PMQ.
> 
> With respect to the sizes of the rooms, imagine a small but comfortable room clearly designed for functionality... and then reduce the size of the room by 30% and remove all vestiges of function... viola -- you now have the average room of a PMQ.
> 
> PMQs are small.  No one will ever accuse you of living in the Taj Mahal... but I have seen some of the most creative decorating done in PMQs that have turned the building from a house to a home.



Wow... Your post was really depressing hehe.. In how many PMQs have you lived ?? Are they all the same or are some bases worst than others in terms of PMQs maintenance ?? It's weird because I read somewhere that the government had recently ordered some renovations on many PMQs so I thought it was a good news. Now I really don't know if I want to live in a PMQ anymore...

*Scoutfinch*, can you be more specific about your experience with PMQs ?? Like on which bases have you lived, which one was the worst and which was okay (if any). You really scared me with your post !!


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## Gouki (20 Mar 2006)

Wow, that sucks.. The ones I've lived in always been pretty good .. a few things that were a piss off but nothing as ... run down as that.


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## scoutfinch (20 Mar 2006)

I have lived in PMQs in Moosejaw, Borden, Gagetown, Petawawa, Lahr and Toronto (both as an Army Brat and as a former Spouse).  I haven't lived in PMQs since the mid 90s but I have been inside many many PMQs since then. 

Please keep in mind that PMQs had been allowed to fall into a terrible state of disrepair before some serious upgrades had been done. I know they are doing some tremendous work on some of the PMQs in Gagetown.  They did a largely superficial refit of PMQs in Downsview (John Drury Drive/Woodhead Crescent) that did nothing to remediate the quality of the housing.  

To be fair, PMQs meet an acceptable standard of living.  That being said, I would never want to live in them again... particularly if the local housing market was affordable.  I recommend buying on every posting, if at all possible.

Edite to add:  Toronto was positively the worst housing experience I ever had.... civilian or military.  It was borderline slum landlord-like.


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## CdnArtyWife (20 Mar 2006)

It is unfortunate that there are so many people that have had bad experiences with PMQs over the years and have since moved on to purchasing their own homes...but continue to weigh-in with negative memories of thier PMQ experience.

It is also unfortunate that those who have had pleasant and positive experiences with PMQs are not very vocal.

I love my PMQ, and the only really negative thing I can say about it is not about the building or the up keep but about my unfortunate bad luck with scoring an unfriendly neighbor who has reined as queen of her Q for almost 15 years, with barely a tennant next door (in our unit) until we moved in...needless to say, she was, and still is, a bit territorial.

My other complaints are really minor ones. I agree about the rubber anti-slip covering on the stairs, it is a pain in the ass to clean, and it collects pet hair rather well. I like the hardwood flooring throughout, and a throw mat or runner here and there can really make it feel homey. I don't know if I was lucky or unlucky, as my cupboards are not oak, or at least have been painted, but I believe they are plywood...but, they don't look bad...and a little paint here and there can snazz the place up and add your own style and personality.

I have a spacious Q, as do most of the other people I know...I even have a friend with three kids (pre-teens now) who requested a row house....I don't know why...but they preferred row houses. The row houses I have been in are small, and not functional, but even they too, with some work, can be made homey. 

I would gladly post pics of my Q, but I am definitely not Martha Stewart when it comes to house keeping, so I will refrain. 8)

CFB Gagetown has had several 3 and 4 bedroom Q's renovated recently. Some were the exact layout of my Q, some were 4 bedroom ones that had a small expantion upstairs to make the rooms (and bathroom) bigger, some were 4 bedrooms made into 3 to make bigger rooms, since there is actually less need for 4 bedroom units here than in the past. Most if not all, had a powder room put in down stairs so now these Q's have a highly coveted second bathroom. The rent on them only went up by $100, which is not bad considering that they were completely gutted of everything save the hardwood floors. They were also adequately insulated and I have a friend that moved into one just after Christmas, they have yet to have used a half tank of oil...a far cry from our heating bill.

Please do not be scared of living in Q's they are not all bad. There are more and more Base Commanders cracking down on CFHA to maintain the Q's at a higher level these days. For instance, I believe the plan here is to have all PMQ's renovated by 2010, and I know Gagetown is not a freak anomally in this case.


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

CdnArtyWife said:
			
		

> It is unfortunate that there are so many people that have had bad experiences with PMQs over the years and have since moved on to purchasing their own homes...but continue to weigh-in with negative memories of thier PMQ experience.




Were we not asked for our opinions?  Or were we only asked for good opinions?   :

You will also note that I explained the reason for the poor housing conditions as well as recent substantial efforts to remediate the problems.  I also stated that it was the efforts of the occupant that turn any house into a home.

Let's be honest with people here when they ask questions.  Not all PMQs are in poor condition.  Some PMQs are in stellar condition, some are in less than satisfactory.  To pretend they are large houses with large rooms would be untrue. To state that they are the equivalent of civilian housing would be equally untrue.  

In my opinion, it was the quality of your neighbours that made for a good PMQ experience, not the quality of the flooring, windows or cabinetry.


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## Cybelle24 (21 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> I have lived in PMQs in Moosejaw, Borden, Gagetown, Petawawa, Lahr and Toronto (both as an Army Brat and as a former Spouse).  I haven't lived in PMQs since the mid 90s but I have been inside many many PMQs since then.
> 
> Edite to add:  Toronto was positively the worst housing experience I ever had.... civilian or military.  It was borderline slum landlord-like.



Have you (or anyone else reading this post) ever seen what the PMQs of Greenwood NS look like (inside I mean) ?? 'Cause that's where I'm going this summer with my boyfriend and we're still wondering if we should buy a house or live in a PMQ for the first year. It's our first ever posting.

Thanks


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

Cybelle24 said:
			
		

> Have you (or anyone else reading this post) ever seen what the PMQs of Greenwood NS look like (inside I mean) ?? 'Cause that's where I'm going this summer with my boyfriend and we're still wondering if we should buy a house or live in a PMQ for the first year. It's our first ever posting.
> 
> Thanks



I am sorry but I haven't been in a Greenwood PMQ in about 20 years!  The problem with your question is that, although most bases have the same housing styles across the country (with some exceptions), each base has a collection of different houses.  So, without knowing what type of housing to which you would be entitled, it is almost impossible to give a layout of the house.  

Other than that, I can advise that the walls will be beige and you will likely have hardwood flooring in all rooms but the kitchen and bathroom(s).  And I have to say, I have never lived in a PMQ that did not have beautiful hardwood floors in outstanding condition (but I also understand that I might have been lucky in that regard).


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## CdnArtyWife (21 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Were we not asked for our opinions?  Or were we only asked for good opinions?   :
> 
> You will also note that I explained the reason for the poor housing conditions as well as recent substantial efforts to remediate the problems.  I also stated that it was the efforts of the occupant that turn any house into a home.
> 
> ...



I was just stating in a general sense that there are alot of scary PMQ nightmare stories out there...and it is unfortunate that those are the ones that people tend to listen to or remember more. I am fully aware that not all Qs are large or well kept.  But just as you say not all are large houses with large rooms, and not all are in stellar condition...it would be just as much of an injustice to stress only the bad and not the good. That is what I was talking about. I have run into so many people in the last few years who do nothing but trash the idea of living in a PMQ (and I am not referring to you) that I have almost become a little defensive. I know I have been lucky that we have had a decent sized PMQ (with a small kitchen) that was in decent repair...and I count my blessings for it, I am fully aware that there are some crap PMQs out there. I just don't like the idea of some people painting all PMQs with the same brush (so to speak).


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## army girl/army wife (22 Mar 2006)

I was just in the Greenwood PMQ's over Christmas, visiting some friends. They are actually pretty good, compared to some I have been in. I was in one of the 4 bedroom duplex's. There was hardwood floors throughout, in good condition. No slip mats on the stairs.  Patio doors in the dining room, leading out to a small patio. Living room and dining room are open concept. Both are pretty good sizes. Kitchen, like all pmq's is not very big. But bright, as everything is painted white. Back door in kitchen that opens onto a cement backstairs with a clothesline. The bedrooms upstairs are a decent size, but the bathroom is tiny. Alot of the batrooms there have been redone with new tiles, tubs, etc, etc.  All the bedrooms had decent size closets, and if I remember correctly the master bedroom had 2. Also the q i was in had a pretty good sized back yard. The PMQ's in Greenwood, all appear to have been redone in the last 10 years (on the outside at least). They had siding instead of that wood siding stuff. Almost all have newer windows and doors also, which is a big bonus when it comes to heating. Hope that helps.


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## NavyGirl280 (22 Mar 2006)

My husband spent many years as a "military brat" in the Greenwood PMQs. Hes been away from there for almost 15 years now but he still misses it. We travel there atleast once a month (weather depending) just to shop at the Greenwood mall and drive through the Qs to see how everything is doing. The one he lived in has since been renovated but even still, it was nice then. 

Now we live in Shearwater in a PMQ and he love our home. It was renovated 2 summers ago. We have a large kitchen now and a 1/2 bath downstairs. Our livingroom and diningroom are plenty big (infact we dont have enough furniture) and 3 good size rooms upstairs with a full bath. We have hardwood floors and at one time, had the black grip tape on the stairs until we had carpet installed on them (my son fell down them) and our kitchen cupboards seem to fall apart one by one (lol). I have seen a couple of the duplexs (been in a 4 bedroom one that a friend of ours is in) and her bedrooms barely holds a twin size bed. Each PMQ will vary from house to house, obviously. 

I agree with Scoutfinch. Your PMQ is what you make of it. Myself (to me) mine looks like a 'typical" PMQ with the creme colored walls. I have been in some where people have been there for years and they have it painted or bordered and it makes it cozy and home-like. Your neighbours can also make or break your opinion of your Q. For example, how well you get along with them, the upkeep of their yard (and yours) and if you share a driveway. What I mean by upkeep, if your nextdoor neighbour doesnt care that the kids leave their toys all throughout the yard or they have a dog who leaves his business right on the "boundaries" of your yard, you wont be impressed. Sure what their kids do is none of yours. However, it leaves an impression on the "type" of neighbourhood you are in. If your neighbour is a gardener and loves to leave rose bushes and flowers planted, then your more likely to feel at him in your "area". If you share a driveway (and more than once I have seen this done), someone will plow his side of the driveway in the winter and use your side to get in and out. I share a driveway and its like we "take turns". We all go out (the 4 adults) and do it together when were all home and a lot has fallen. And Ive seen days (weekends) where its almost noon before I am out of bed and ready to shovel and they have it done. There have been days when we do theirs as well as ours when my neighbour is at sea and his wife is at work early. 

Making friends in your neighbour will help as well. I sat in my house by myself most days when I first moved in. I knew one person (a good friend prior to living in the Qs) who lives across from us. I would talk with her somedays but then her hours at work changed and I stayed inside alone again. When school started, I met more of the parents in our area and now I talk to everyone on a daily basis. Now when we need a cup of sugar, theres more than our neighbour to bug   ;D  LOL

S.Bradbury


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## Shadow Cat (23 Mar 2006)

I live in a 1350sq.ft. 4 bedroom duplex Q in Kingston.

We have carpet on our stairs.  Brand new floor in our kitchen and bathroom, brand new windows, brand new pedestial sink in the bathroom and new toilet.  I need a new tub but hey we all shower so what is the rush right.

The only problem that I have with my Q is the installation on the outside of the house.  Some of the vinyl siding is lettign go and so it makes the cupboards a little drafty in the kitchen but they are in the middle of resididng all of the Q's so I am sure that that wont be a problem in the near future.

Our living are is huge.  I only use about half of my living room and have an eat in kitchen with room to spare.  My laundry room has a small room inside of it that I have our second computer set up in.  All of the bedrooms are a good size and in the master bedroom there is a small walk-in closet.  I say small as it only fits my clothes.  

I dont mind living in the Q's but I look forward to purchasing our first home in approx 5 years.  It is makes more economic sense to own. Until that day comes though.  I am a happy camper in my Q.


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## CdnArtyWife (23 Mar 2006)

Wow, Shadow Cat:

You place sounds devine! I bet you have it all decorated up to the nines too. :-* You should send me pics sometime, girl!


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## Siggywife (23 Mar 2006)

When I lived in Kingston Q's it was a nightmare for sure but we made the best out of it..Its our home and we made it that way.. I anyways made sure I had some flowers or some type of colourful basket during the summer months and we even painted our Q simply because I got tired of looking at boring walls.. I was known as the lady with the red kitchen.. People would ask me where i lived and that all I had to say to them was I have the red kitchen.. and they know right away.. Housing wasn't to pleased about the colour choice but it was primed before march out and I hear someone is living there now.. 

Now we own our home which is very nice but I am back to boring walls and now I cant paint them either because we are moving again.. OY.. isn't that the way.. You make your home what it is..Some dint want to decorate because its too much of a pain to fix when you leave.. SO stop complaining about it if you aren't going to do something about it... 

Each base takes care of its Q's in a different way.. The Reno's here in Shearwater are very impressive.. They are trying to modernize them to peoples tastes to bring people back to the military community.. With rent increases to market value there just isn't any comparison.. I miss the neighbours and the things we did together..the morning coffee visits and the fact that there is always someone out in about to chit chat with.. You just dint get that on Civi street..

Siggy


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## Shadow Cat (24 Mar 2006)

CdnArtyWife said:
			
		

> Wow, Shadow Cat:
> 
> You place sounds devine! I bet you have it all decorated up to the nines too. :-* You should send me pics sometime, girl!



Nope only moved here in November and I am moving again in May or June so there really wasnt much reason to decorate it to the hilt.  Wont be here long enough.    Oh well it is still homey and I like it.  the flowers are starting to come up oustide and I plan on adding more before I leave as a home just isnt a home without a garden and I am sure that the new people will appreciate it.


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## 2 Cdo (24 Mar 2006)

Lived in the Q's in kingston for about a year and the main complaint was the cost. Rent and heating(not alot of insulation) were the biggest downfalls. I actually had a basement and my backyard backed towards Fort Henry! 

Not to call down the Q's but with todays mortgage rates, and flexible borrowing terms why rent? My mortgage, including interest and taxes for a home that is 500 sq. feet larger, is still $100 dollars a month CHEAPER then renting! If I was a young private, making what they are making, I would invest in my own home. After 20 years in the army, and numerous tour monies, I would own my home outright! Time to wake up troops, for most serving members there is no reason whatsoever to not own their own house! Renting is a suckers game, nothing to show for it after 20 years, except a large mortgage!


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## Shadow Cat (24 Mar 2006)

I agree with you but for the time being this is what is best for us. 

For us in Kingston our rent is capped due to being a first class private so our rent is very very reasonable.  As well we keep out heat down at night and at 19 during the day so our heat bill is not very high.  In fact our heat bill and rent bill are equivalent to our old rental price in NS.  No complaints here.


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## honestyrules (24 Mar 2006)

My Q in Gagetown: 3 bedrooms row house

Nice looking exterior (siding redone), new windows (poor installation though), layout is good enough.
I got a nice large bathroom (compared to some other models).

Drawbacks on mine:
-poor insulation (around windows), ice cold basement, you know... During the cold months, the furnace is kicking in all the time.
-Load bearing wall in the middle (basement), so there is a loss of space...
-Large windows in the living (OK great view) but lots of heat loses


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## Cybelle24 (27 Mar 2006)

Thanks a lot everyone for your two cents and informations.

I have a question for *army girl/army wife* and *NavyGirl280* or anyone else who might know the answer. It's about the PMQs in Greenwood NS... I _have_ to know, what are the bathrooms like ?? I know, I know, it probably sounds like a very trivial interrogation to many people, but to me it's relatively important.. I truly HATE tiny bathrooms where there is no vanity cabinet next to the sink to put your stuff and where the toilet is so close to the bathtub that you can scrub it while taking your bath. I'm a girl and that's something that matters to me .


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## clk320 (27 Mar 2006)

On a lighter note; Well for a good look at a kitchen go to the War Museum in Ottawa and you got a display 

Seriously I presently live in Greenwood in a single house (since I am deployed can't send you inside pics) but they are like army.girl said very nice indeed.  Most of them have been redone inside out except for a few.  For mine the only thing not redone is the kitchen but I think it's the 80's reno's.  Now it's a two bedroom approx 856 sqft.  Small but comfortable.  Huge pie lot and a porch in front.  The basement was renovated at a cost of $4000.00.  They are very cheep paying $311.00 mth at the moment.  Heating: $600.00 a year (oil) .  Remember NS is expansive for Electricity so you are better off with Oil (albeit still expansive but I was renting a house before with electrical heat and it was costing me 250.00 a month).  The Q's are a bit drafty but like someone said it's not the Taj Mahal.  The bigger one have brand new kitchen and they are very nice.  One things it's quiet and good quality of living.  I can't complained.  What a lot of folks are doing is moving in the Q's putting money aside for a couple of years and then buying into the market.  Which I am doing since posted  this summer.


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## Recce41 (27 Mar 2006)

It will depend on where you go. My Q in Petawawa was great, repainted and a few upgrades. Petawawa always had carpet on the stairs, no rubber mat. Gagetown is the only place I've seen it. NB, it's to go along with everything else in this province. Crap.


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## NavyGirl280 (27 Mar 2006)

Cybelle24

The house I am in now has 1 1/2 baths (we got lucky)....Our bathroom downstairs is small as it only has a sink and toilet in it and my bathroom upstairs is fairsize..... Although my friend in the duplex has a huge bathroom. Hers is more  long than wide, whereas mine is the opposite. The house I knew from Greenwood has a nice size bathroom, however, since then the house has been renovated and I am unsure of the size now. 

We are looking at moving into a smaller Q. We have spent soooo much money on heating this year as we have one of the larger units. My kids, husband and myself spent so much money on peniciline and medications this winter. My daughter is working on getting rid of a cold shes had for almost a month now. Shes been on peniciline for it and that took most but not all of it away. The cough still lingers on. I have been looking forward to a large livingroom window as right now I am in a Cape Cod style Q and all my windows are long and narrow. After reading the one post, I never thought about it as being a heating loss in the winter  :

Our basement is the complete opposite of so many people who I hear about their basements being cold. There is a 6*C temperature difference in the winter between my basement and the upstairs. The basement being the warmest. I have a door at the top of my basement stairs and in the winter when you walk down, by the 3rd stair, the heat is literally hitting you in the face, while the upstairs is so cool that you need extra blankets and something to cover the windows. In the summertime, you can barely sleep at night, its so hot. 

Cybelle if you would like to see pictures of my place (but as most have said, Qs will vary) I have a bunch on my computer that I would be more than willing to send. Just PM me if your interested and I can send them off to you


S.Bradbury


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## WayneDraper (27 Mar 2006)

I've lived in the PMQ's as a brat.  Starting in Borden when 4 family's lived in an H-hut while we were waiting for our PMQ to be finished.  Was in Borden, ON , London ON ,Trenton, ON, Shearwater, NS, Jerico, BC, last back to Borden.  I found that most PMQ's are what you make them and your neighbours are also what makes them a good place or not.  It is the same on buying a house. Some are small and odd layouts inside.  While others are a fair size but not great still the same old military layout on the inside.
They have improved greatly and still are improving the best they can.  You have to decide if the cost of renting a house is better then buying a house!!


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## Rhibwolf (29 Mar 2006)

When we got married in 91 we moved in to Qs in "balconia", Area 31 Lahr.  When we walked in to get a look at our 2 bedroom appartment, we marvelled at how spotless it all was, and how shiny the hardwood was. Yes, white kitchen, beige walls, etc, but it was homey once we put our stuff in, and it was dirt cheap.  92 saw us in a 4 bedroom brick duplex in shilo (shortage of three bedrooms, and one extra kid)  Again, a decent place to live, and the rent was great 300/month.  93 saw us at Royal Roads, in a single three bedroom.  Again, same as before, clean, cozy, colour scheme by CE, etc, BUT, rent 650/month.  94 saw us moving to Kingston, where there were no Qs avail with basements, the ones they showed us were tiny, run down, and terribly expensive. If I recall, they were grouped by rank, and at the time, i was an OCdt, so not much rank there......  We pinched pennies, got a mortgage and move on the economy.  I dont regret the Qs I had in fact, they were pretty good as far as quality goes. Im glad I was able to avoid the ones we didnt get, and I confess, moving out was better in the end.


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## army girl/army wife (31 Mar 2006)

From what I remember of the bathroom it was small, but I've been in smaller. The bathroom was at the top of the stairs. You walk in and the toilet is on your right, with the sink next to it. There was a medicine cabinet over the sink, another shelving unit/cabinet over the toilet. I don't know if my friends put that in themselves or if CFHA did. So plenty of storage. Plus there was a closet in the hallway where they kept all there towels and such. It is one of the nicer bathrooms I have saw in a PMQ, but typical size.


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