# Army = Ironic?



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

This is a recruiting story that took a full year.
Last year in Feb. 27 2007 I turned 16. I attempted to apply for a local reserves unit Lorne Scots which has an armoury just in my town. On my birthday, I made my first trip to Brampton Lorne Scots B-Coy/HQ and handed in my application and etc. 

The recruiting Sgt. was out doing a course at that time, I spoke to a Corporal about it and he snapped out my hopes for the early application with the following: "Your application will not go through until you have at least 15 high school credits" I did ask him about having a letter from guidance council that I for sure was going to have at least 15 credits by the end of the semaster. [I was in grade 10 2nd semaster and had 12 credits, 8 credits in gr.9 and 4 credits in first semaster of gr.10] 

Then ofcourse, biting down on my lips, I just went back home and waited for the semaster to end. Eventually it did and I had 16 credits.  A day after the school was over I went to my highschool and asked for transcript. I made another trip to Brampton that night and turned back for forgetting my citizenship card behind(?) I went back the next week and it was devastating. The corporal who was at the time in charge of recruiting was sick. He wasn't at the armoury. After couple questions and requests with an officer, A female former-recruiter corporal in the next building helped me and everything seemed fine. 

The next time I heard about the process was September when school was about to start! I made couple correctiosn in my files and process was on its way. In a row I took aptitute, PT, Medical and interview etc in September. My visual acuity wasn't clear during medical so my eye doc did that part and it was on it was mailed to a medical officer in Toronto. I was devastated after 2 weeks, nothing I contacted the medical offcer almost daily and he was out for something all the time. I spoke with Lorne Scots Sgt. In the middle of October and apparentely there was no spot open for me in Lorne Scots until next year. [I think he said April or next year]

I was very stressed by this information. I spoke to many people around me and in Canadian Forces for information in October. In the end I was suggested to use Army.ca.  I posted my question and many good answers were posted. After following some suggestions by people i know in the army, I decided to move my form to CFRC Hamilton. Two major reasons:
-32 Brigade was full
-A hope that if I contact certain people fast enough, I could make it to Winter BMQ in December and January.
In this mess I contacted a lot of units from Toronto Scottish Regiment, The Argyills, RHLI, 7th Artillery and 3 more I don't remember.
With my school guidance council, I contacted a recruiter at CFRC Hamilton multiple times and one very helpful recruiter kept me informed of my application through December.

and of course, impatient comments make me the whiner.

Adter more phone calls and more months the helpful recruiter at CFRC Hamilton sent my file back to Lorne Scots.
At this time, instead of eager "I want to join as fast as possible." My morale for this subejct became "I don't give a crap." Here's the iornic part, as soon as I thought "I dont give a crap" a recruiter at Lorne Scots told me to call back because there is an opportunity for swearing in and BMQ. The swear in date was: Feb.25 2008 One my email accounts is waited17yrs. Yesterday was Feb.27th 2008, from  1991 feb 27th I waited 17 years to get into the forces.


----------



## PMedMoe (28 Feb 2008)

First, I have to ask how does Army=Ironic?  Or your application=Ironic?
One year from start of application?  No offense, but I have a redress of grievance in that has been going on longer.
If just applying stresses you out, maybe the military is not for you....

Not trying to make fun of your situation but just remember, this is only the beginning.


----------



## 211RadOp (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> -The lunch period just ended in school post will be edited with its extension-



Moe, I think there is more to come based on this line. Maybe it will be explained further.


----------



## medaid (28 Feb 2008)

You seem to use 'devastated' allot. I hope you're not easily distressed as you'll have plenty of time to be worried or stressed out when you get in. How you deal with that stress, well it's really up to you. Hopefully something healthy.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (28 Feb 2008)

Well. I hope waiting to finish his post doesn't 'stress' or 'devastate' him too much.


----------



## fbr2o75 (28 Feb 2008)

From reading his post I gather he is aprox. 16-17 years old with a dream to serve in the military. he has run into a few road blocks and at his age they probably look to be huge, I get from reading this he is very disappointed in the progress so far. Maybe his choice of words are wrong but I do commend him for his efforts to join the military at an early age. I guess some posters on her have forgot what its like to be young and full of pi$$ and vinegar.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (28 Feb 2008)

fbr2o75 said:
			
		

> From reading his post I gather he is aprox. 16-17 years old with a dream to serve in the military. he has run into a few road blocks and at his age they probably look to be huge, I get from reading this he is very disappointed in the progress so far. Maybe his choice of words are wrong but I do commend him for his efforts to join the military at an early age. I guess some posters on her have forgot what its like to be young and full of pi$$ and vinegar.



Oh please. There's being full of P&V, and there's being wildly over the top. He's to be commended for sure, but all he has to do is read the other 1000 recruiting stories here to find out he's no different than anyone else trying to join. He might as well learn here and now, exaggerated whining won't get him far in the army.


----------



## RHFC_piper (28 Feb 2008)

Everything GRD has been writing about is pretty standard for PRes Recruiting... and there's a reason for all of it.   I deal with this stuff every day as a unit recruiter and I can empathize... a bit.   But, as everyone else has stated, these aren't going to be the worst of the problems in your military career.



			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> he snapped out my hopes for the early application with the following: "Your application will not go through until you have at least 15 high school credits"



This is CF policy and there is no gray area here.  minimum requirement is 15 Ontario High School credits or equivalent with proper documentation.




			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I did ask him about having a letter from guidance council that I for sure was going to have at least 15 credits by the end of the semaster. [I was in grade 10 2nd semaster and had 12 credits, 8 credits in gr.9 and 4 credits in first semaster of gr.10]



A note is not proper documentation, no matter who it is from.   This is a "check in the box" issue; did the applicant provide an official Ontario high school transcript? Yes / No.  Does it indicate no less than 15 OHS credits or equivalent? Yes / No.   This is all unit recruiters are concerned with.  If no is answered for either, the file will not be processed.  It is my personal policy to NOT accept any incomplete files, as they just sit in my filing cabinet and eventually get shredded when the applicant doesn't follow up... I will call once to remind, but after 3 months I turn on the shredder.   




			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I made another trip to Brampton that night and turned back for forgetting my citizenship card behind(?) I went back the next week and it was devastating.



Reference above; incomplete files are not acceptable at the unit level.  Just a heads up to any future applicants, you will need to bring the following documentation;
- Official, original high school transcript indicating no less than 15 high school credits or equivalent.
- Proof of Canadian citizenship; Original Birth certificate, Citizenship card, or Canadian Passport.
- References and resume
- Social insurance card (not absolutely necessary, but it makes things easier)





			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> The corporal who was at the time in charge of recruiting was sick. He wasn't at the armoury.



The best way to avoid this problem is to phone ahead.   I've had parents/teachers/applicants/everyone get angry 'cause I wasn't there when they wanted to come in... my reply is; CALL AHEAD... I don't live at my desk (thankfully).



			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> middle of October and apparentely there was no spot open for me in Lorne Scots until next year. [I think he said April or next year]



I get lots of questions about this one.   Simplest answer; we don't have enough people qualified to instruct all the people who want to join, so space is limited.  I had 4 positions for the summer, they were filled last fall... I'm recruiting for next fall and winter now...  and when I get back to work after my leave, I already know I'll have at least 10 people ready to submit applications for 6 position.  So, don't take it too personally.  If a recruiter says they can't hire you for a while, it's true.  I personally hate turning people away, but it's not really my choice. 



			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> In the end I was suggested to use Army.ca.  I posted my question and many good answers.



Good.  Keep asking questions (or using the search function), keep reading and don't give up on the CF...  Stay determined, but relax... this won't be the worst thing you'll go through.


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

It was devastating for me because I had a friend applying for the same trade at the same time in the summer and he's got in a lot quicker than me. In fact, we were at a camp and he was called at the camp about it and next day he left.  Another time, in September another person I know applied for Infantry and he's doing or done the BMQ with RHLI. My 'devastation' is this diversity which doesn't exist purposely, but it just does. 
 I do not get stressed easily, I do have healthy things to deal with stress (I don't think anyone would say sports are unhealty)



			
				MedTech said:
			
		

> You seem to use 'devastated' allot. I hope you're not easily distressed as you'll have plenty of time to be worried or stressed out when you get in. How you deal with that stress, well it's really up to you. Hopefully something healthy.


----------



## aesop081 (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> It was devastating for me because I had a friend applying for the same trade at the same time in the summer and he's got in a lot quicker than me. In fact, we were at a camp and he was called at the camp about it and next day he left.  Another time, in September another person I know applied for Infantry and he's doing or done the BMQ with RHLI. My 'devastation' is this diversity which doesn't exist purposely, but it just does.


  

 :crybaby:    :crybaby:


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

That's exactly what my devastation was/is ;D


			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :crybaby:    :crybaby:


----------



## aesop081 (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> That's exactly what my devastation was/is ;D



I'm sorry you find my reaction devastating......... :

As you can tell, we're all crying over your situation.


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

thats sweet. what's next? 
The words 'stressed'  'devestated literally replaces my  'p-ed off' and 'crying out loud(not literally) since I can't do anything about it' 
I just didn't want my post go get ugly but comments already spoiled that one.


----------



## RHFC_piper (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> My 'devastation' is this diversity which doesn't exist purposely, but it just does.



Actually... There is a difference between someone applying to the RHLI and the Lorne Scots. It may not be apparent, but there is.   There is also a reason why your file didn't get processed and you friends did, and you actually pointed it out.

I'll explain first the key differences between the two units;
The RHLI is part of 31 Canadian Brigade Group, where as the Lornes are part of 32 CBG... The separate brigade groups have their own allotments for numbers...  32 CBG obviously doesn't have a position for you, where as 31 CBG obviously had a position for your friend.  This isn't a 'discrimination' thing, it's an 'available position' thing.   And to break this down further; Just because the RHLI hire people on, doesn't mean the Lorne Scots have the same amount of positions available... There are any number of reasons why a unit can't take you on.  

Now that that's out of the way, here's another issue; You stated that you didn't have the required amount of credits and had to return when you did; did your friend(s) have this problem?  You also stated that you were sent away 'cause you didn't have your Citizenship card; did your friends have this problem? You also said you had to consult your doctor about a medical letter from the MO; again, did your friends have this problem?   The point is; all this adds up against the processing time.  You aren't the only one going through processing and the CFRC isn't going to wait.  If your paperwork is late, they push someone ahead of you. Every little issue that comes up, which requires you to take more time in the process, lessens the chances that you'll get a position right away.  


Now, here's the kicker. Complaining about it here isn't going to fix any problems.  This is just how things work in the military... and the real world.


The biggest problem I've found as a recruiter is the idea that everyone has about joining the army. This is a job like any other; we are not obligated to hire you and you are not entitled, solely on the basis of you citizenship, to just sign up and run off to the army.   We are selective because our job involves life and death.  
Just because our posters say "join us" doesn't mean you can just sign up, grab a gun and go... we aren't a pick-up softball team... 
Would you expect to be hired at McDonalds just for showing up and successfully completing a McApplication?... Not McLikely.


----------



## aesop081 (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I just didn't want my post go get ugly



How did that work out ?


----------



## George Wallace (28 Feb 2008)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> The biggest problem I've found as a recruiter is the idea that everyone has about joining the army. This is a job like any other; we are not obligated to hire you and you are not entitled, solely on the basis of you citizenship, to just sign up and run off to the army.   We are selective because our job involves life and death.
> Just because our posters say "join us" doesn't mean you can just sign up, grab a gun and go... we aren't a pick-up softball team...
> Would you expect to be hired at McDonalds just for showing up and successfully completing a McApplication?... Not McLikely.



How very true, and how disappointing to see so many people coming in off the street who are "demanding" to be hired.


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

I don't mean discrimination at all, I mean no complaints at all. Right now I saw 3 replies while im writing this. This thread wasn't about complaints, it was about "I find it ironic it went this way" 
and CDN Aviator, I guess it's worse than expected. Even just from 3/4 finished essay people assume my irony a complaint even though it clearly said it'll be continued. I'm pretty sure that some of the comments coming on right now haven't read my edit. I must say "Gosh.. What is wrong with these people... They told me read before writing and I see 6 posts just before I continue my story..."


----------



## RHFC_piper (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I don't mean discrimination at all, I mean no complaints at all. Right now I saw 3 replies while im writing this. This thread wasn't about complaints, it was about "I find it ironic it went this way"
> and CDN Aviator, I guess it's worse than expected. Even just from 3/4 finished essay people assume my irony a complaint even though it clearly said it'll be continued. I'm pretty sure that some of the comments coming on right now haven't read my edit. I must say "Gosh.. What is wrong with these people... They told me read before writing and I see 6 posts just before I continue my story..."



I'll just give you a friendly heads up... and I'm not trying to tear you down, I just want you to consider this when posting;  Don't expect people to read an edited post... when you say "to be continued" everyone will expect another post to the original thread... there's no indication that you've edited the original post, so why would people re-read it... that would be like you editing a verbal discussion after you spoke... It doesn't make sense..


Anyway, I can see where you see the Irony, but, all of your problems can be explained, and you do come off as complaining about things...  Now that you're soon-to-be in, expect more "irony" of the same caliber...


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

Since they are all done, I don't any problem whatsoever, I wanted to share my story and that went well withoug being ugly? well by far RHFC piper, you gave me the best advice and answers to all I said. I hope you could be one of the most helpful persons in my process. Unfortunately for that situation, it's over. I did not mention a single name because I would like them to keep their privacy and I would like to keep mine too. In my recruiting process CFR FCS and that very helpful Corporal at CFRC Hamilton were the most helpful.

Again, I was writing the long story in the school library and had to get away and apparentely hotmail was down. So I simply added -will be continued school lunch time is over-.
You wouldn't know how I was laughing and felt weird when I read the comments before finishing the story.


----------



## Rocketryan (28 Feb 2008)

Though I dont know what years you applied (I am assuming 07?), if you looked at the Lorne Scots website, you would have saw (since at least September till January) that they are only accepting Co-op applicants

That may explain why they didnt have spots


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

I think i gave all that info at my long plot? Methinks you need to read more write less


----------



## RHFC_piper (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I think i gave all that info at my long plot? Methinks you need to read more write less



Again, friendly heads up; Someone is about to slap you with a reminder about Tone and Content... tred lightly.


I believe Rocketryan was just trying to give you some info in a friendly manner.


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

thanks piper, It's just that I've went through many times "this happened because people didn't read the edited part". Then there's Ryan saying something without reading the first page. I apologize for that attitude, I'm just having a bad day for being "a whiner" at good intention of humour and sharing information.


----------



## medaid (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I think i gave all that info at my long plot? Methinks you need to read more write less



Mate, another friendly warning. You have not been on here long enough, or have established yourself well enough to even suggest that to other members of the forum. As to the "whiner" comment, you'll be addressed as many different things if you get into the CF. How you take some of those comments and how you excel at making yourself different then your peers, will dictate how others view you.


----------



## PMedMoe (28 Feb 2008)

So long story short:  The irony is when you were all gung-ho to join, you couldn't get in.  Now, you don't care and you're getting in.
Do I have it right?

A little pointer, take it as you will:  You know how to use the Edit function.....use the Spell Check function too.  
What would be great is if there were grammar check as well but we can only hope for so much.  I know some people take their time, do up their post in Word, use spell and grammar check and then cut and paste in here.  I realize that English may not be your first language (?) and for the most part, your posts are okay (except for the whining  ) and then I see something like this:



			
				Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> One my email accounts is waited17yrs. Yesterday was Feb.27th 2008, from  1991 feb 27th I waited 17 years to get into the forces.



which barely makes sense.


----------



## Red-Water.06 (28 Feb 2008)

I envy those people whom have much time in their hands. Gr.11 life at least in this semaster consumes most of my time. 
'One my email accounts is waited17yrs. Yesterday was Feb.27th 2008, from  1991 feb 27th I waited 17 years to get into the forces'
doesn't  make sense and I'm saying "What the heck was I saying?"
It was supposed to be 
One of my e-mail ccounts is waited 17yrs.  Yesterday was Feb.27th 2008, from 1991 Feb 27th I waited 17 years to ge in the forces.

BTW you're right with that irony, the second irony I screwed it up and I admit it.


----------



## RHFC_piper (28 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> You know how to use the Edit function.....use the Spell Check function too.
> What would be great is if there were grammar check as well but we can only hope for so much.  I know some people take their time, do up their post in Word, use spell and grammar check and then cut and paste in here.




Ok... I'm going to have to Hijack this thread, just for a short joy ride.. 

Maybe it's just me, but I firmly believe that Spell Check and Grammar Check are (or will be) responsible for the downfall of society.   I know this sounds eccentric, but thanks to poor spelling and grammar the written word is in decline. Because we let it slide everywhere; on the internet. In public advertising... everywhere.  People seem to believe they can rely on Spell Check and Grammar Check to correct every fault, and when it's not available they fall back to poor language skills.  This creates language barriers... which shouldn't happen within the same language.  Spelling and Grammar Checkers lead people to believe that words like _irregardless_ are proper English. So much so that irregardless isn't caught by most spell checkers...  Even the words _Ginormous_ and _Imbiggens_ are being considered for additions to the Oxford English Dictionary solely because of their common use in speech and writing (thank you, Simpsons).  This is just wrong.  Soon the ever-annoying L33t HaX0R internet language will be recognized thanks to the generation of idiot kids plugged in to their generations Boob-tube (I can say this 'cause I'm at the trailing edge of this group.)
Soon we won't even be able to effectively communicate. Then one day, one of these under educated, computer-bottle fed spell checkers will find themselves writing a simple letter without technology, the recipient of which will misinterpret the simplest dialog, take offense and choose the wrong way to react... and if these morons happen to be world leaders; voila, WW3... 

No sir. not on my watch. Read a book.    

(I'm not really mad...  just teasin')


----------



## mckee19 (28 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> I envy those people whom have much time in their hands. Gr.11 life at least in this semaster consumes most of my time.
> 'One my email accounts is waited17yrs. Yesterday was Feb.27th 2008, from  1991 feb 27th I waited 17 years to get into the forces'
> doesn't  make sense and I'm saying "What the heck was I saying?"
> It was supposed to be
> ...



Jesus, i think you f**ked it up worse the second time through

Your military career will be short lived unless you can learn to accept constructive criticism in any matter it is delivered to you. Just remember Mouth shut, Eyes and Ears open


----------



## PMedMoe (28 Feb 2008)

RHFC Piper, I agree with you 100%, however, in some cases I will make allowances.
Maybe the Spell and Grammar check are not as much the downfall of society as test messaging will be.  Abbreviations that are not common and no capitalization or punctuation seems to be the norm.
BTW, I love to read and am quite lost without a book (or two) on the go!


----------



## RHFC_piper (28 Feb 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> RHFC Piper, I agree with you 100%, however, in some cases I will make allowances.



I suppose... it's the abuse of it that gets me.



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Maybe the Spell and Grammar check are not as much the downfall of society as text messaging will be.  Abbreviations that are not common and no capitalization or punctuation seems to be the norm.



Agreed.  MSN-speak make me want to virtually choke people.



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> BTW, I love to read and am quite lost without a book (or two) on the go!



The book comment was really just generic...  not directed at you.  (more for the young one.  )


----------



## dwalter (28 Feb 2008)

RHFC_piper: Don't go throwing all of the young folks into the techno age where we don't know how to spell by ourselves anymore. Fact of the matter is, even people who are my age (18 at the moment) didn't go to elementary school with computers. We didn't get our hands on real computers until middle school (At least where I come from). We had classes on cursive writing, which are apparently being phased out by typing classes... Anyways, some of us pride ourselves in good hand written communication skills, and I must say I like sending a snail mail letter much more than an email. It is just more personal that way.

[/Hijack]

Now onto the topic at hand. Greenrubberduckie: Just so you know, grade 11 is not the hardest year you are ever going to face. Keep in mind many people on this forum have completed high school as well as post secondary education. Let me just make a friendly comment that university is much busier than grade 11. Trust me...

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming!


----------



## dwalter (28 Feb 2008)

Nope, but it's harder than grade 11. From the amount of work the people I know in upper year have, I'm pretty sure it's not going to get much less than that. That's not to say much though, because grade 12 was easier than grade 11...


----------



## medaid (28 Feb 2008)

Intelligent Design said:
			
		

> Nope, but it's harder than grade 11. From the amount of work the people I know in upper year have, I'm pretty sure it's not going to get much less than that. That's not to say much though, because grade 12 was easier than grade 11...



Misread and I have since removed my post


----------



## George Wallace (28 Feb 2008)

Is "misread" even a word?    ;D


----------



## medaid (28 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Is "misread" even a word?    ;D



hehehe apparently so  ;D


----------



## George Wallace (28 Feb 2008)

Time for a new dictionary.    :-\


----------



## dwalter (28 Feb 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Misread and I have since removed my post



No worries. 

Yes, misread is a word, the dictionary says so. (Yes I actually looked it up....)


----------



## Red-Water.06 (29 Feb 2008)

well it was very unpleasant to share my story. I guess I could say in the end, it was worth it. I like all the buds in the unit. Apparentely some of them recognize me from my prior experience.
I will shut my beak for a year or more since whatever I'm doing on this forum won't get me anywhere better.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (29 Feb 2008)

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> well it was very unpleasant to share my story. I guess I could say in the end, it was worth it. I like all the buds in the unit. Apparentely some of them recognize me from my prior experience.
> I will shut my beak for a year or more since whatever I'm doing on this forum won't get me anywhere better.



and with that, we can lock this up.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------

