# 2017 MARLANT Change of Command Parade



## FSTO (3 Sep 2017)

Anyone on the East Coast attend the COMD MARLANT change of command? I saw pictures and to call it a dog's breakfast would be an insult to dog puke. 

The Guard sitting in chairs? WTF?


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

It sure looks...different!!!!  You can tell by the looks on their faces just how...overwhelmed they are to be there.  :rofl:


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## Stoker (3 Sep 2017)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Anyone on the East Coast attend the COMD MARLANT change of command? I saw pictures and to call it a dog's breakfast would be an insult to dog puke.
> 
> The Guard sitting in chairs? WTF?




Admiral Newton wanted the guard to sit down and the COC the way it was.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2017)

All I can say is "WOW!"............followed immediately by the dinosaur in me saying "WTF!".


I am sure there are quite a few old RSMs and Chiefs wondering what the Parade Orders were for that Parade....."Into Chairs.....SIT!"   ???


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## Stoker (3 Sep 2017)

This what Admiral Newton had to say on the comments about the parade.

"I wanted all uniforms to be present including engineers in dirty coveralls. I believe our sailors (and the other service personnel) and civilian workers should be proud to wear their combat and operational uniforms as much as their highest order of dress which seems to make others happy bur creates resentment when you consider how much training and engineering we disrupt by ceremony. Indeed, I wanted the ceremony to be about our people and not as much the officers changing command. I spoke to all this in my remarks. After all, this was a ceremony and not a parade per se."


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

Regardless of what he wanted, there are IMO certain standards that should be maintained for things like this.  A guard sitting down, as an example, erodes those standards.

I'm only a small cog, but this is another conversation he is the center of recently that fit into the *UNSAT* category, for me at least.


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## Sub_Guy (3 Sep 2017)

Let's do away with these parades all together.  We lost a week of training because of a CoC parade here at 14 Wing this summer.  It doesn't sound like much, but a week is pretty significant.  

Actually the week wasn't lost, we just added a week to the course.  Which is an extra week of TD for our students from Comox, it all adds up.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Let's do away with these parades all together.  We lost a week of training because of a CoC parade here at 14 Wing this summer.  It doesn't sound like much, but a week is pretty significant.



Whine whine whine!   :violin:  

Why do you operational-focus types always try to interfere with the important stuff;  staff work, admin and ceremony!!   :tempertantrum:

 ;D


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## FSTO (3 Sep 2017)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Let's do away with these parades all together.  We lost a week of training because of a CoC parade here at 14 Wing this summer.  It doesn't sound like much, but a week is pretty significant.
> 
> Actually the week wasn't lost, we just added a week to the course.  Which is an extra week of TD for our students from Comox, it all adds up.



Sure, lets become just like the Canadian Coast Guard.
Also I've yet to be on a course that wasn't 1 week of actual instruction/training squeezed into 3 weeks of TD.


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## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2017)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Let's do away with these parades all together.  We lost a week of training because of a CoC parade here at 14 Wing this summer.



I would say the problem isn't the parades, its the fact that someone thinks we require more than a 1 day rehearsal for a CoC parade. Turning right when someone says turn right isn't rocket surgery.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

I remember watching parade practices in Gagetown in front of the Battlemall that lasted a full week for all the Officer courses.  Thankfully, I was watching them from_ inside _the Battlemall.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Also I've yet to be on a course that wasn't 1 week of actual instruction/training squeezed into 3 weeks of TD.



Not so much the case on a flying course.  Delays are ones out of staff control, such as weather or serviceability of aircraft.  (or..parades   )

These folks, if they are from the West coast, have also been away from their postal code for a considerable time already on course before they even get to MOAT (Maritime Operational Aircrew Training) which itself is 6+ months long.

Looks like the navy does parades _and_ TDs poorly then.  Did you guys want to talk to our guys about way to improve??   >


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## jollyjacktar (3 Sep 2017)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Sure, lets become just like the Canadian Coast Guard.
> Also I've yet to be on a course that wasn't 1 week of actual instruction/training squeezed into 3 weeks of TD.



Honestly, who do these parades really benefit?   Not the troops so much.  I have never gotten a thrill from seeing and participating in the ceremony of a change of command.  Maybe it gives the Wardroom denizens a shiver up the spine but I've never once heard the rest of us going oooooo lala over one.  Yes, yes, I get it.  For the two head honchos in question that it's a big deal (because I know you're thinking it) but at the end of the day, not so much for those of us below. Really.  As for the CG crack, at least they get overtime do they not?


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## FSTO (3 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Honestly, who do these parades really benefit?   Not the troops so much.  I have never gotten a thrill from seeing and participating in the ceremony of a change of command.  Maybe it gives the Wardroom denizens a shiver up the spine but I've never once heard the rest of us going oooooo lala over one.  Yes, yes, I get it.  For the two head honchos in question that it's a big deal (because I know you're thinking it) but at the end of the day, not so much for those of us below. Really.  As for the CG crack, at least they get overtime do they not?



Then join the fricken CG if you want overtime. (My apologies)


I for one enjoy the parades either when I was a platoon cdr or now when I get the the chance to be the parade cdr. For the general public to see a well turned out UNIFORM parade (not these gawd awful coat of many colours parades) shows us to be a professional force that deserves the honour, responsibility and capability to expend the country's treasure in the defence of the realm. The general public has very few opportunities to see us at sea, in the field or in the air. But when we are on parade in the public eye I'd rather we look sharp, professional and uniform than bags of shyte. Because if we look like bags of shyte or just hide from the public, the razor thin support that we do have will evaporate pretty quick!

Now I know that most here don't believe in Buttons and Bows but there is a place for it because we are not the F'n Coast Guard we are the CAF and we should look the part at all times.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I for one enjoy the parades...when I get the the chance to be the parade cdr.



Most important part quoted  >

Teasing!!


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## FSTO (3 Sep 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Most important part quoted  >
> 
> Teasing!!



Ha ha. I can take it.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (3 Sep 2017)

Some parade have their place ... others don't. Bet you the Admiral wanted the guard to sit down because he knew the speeches would be long winded affairs.  ;D.

However, in my mind, for a change of Coast command parade, it would have been sufficient to have a guard and Colours party, manned by the PAT platoon, and then one representative platoon from each unit in the command (say 25 pers) simply doing a formed parade in front of the HQ, and have a very short outgoing and even shorter oncoming speech - with no speech from their senior supervising officer there to witness the change. 

You do the standard Colours handed to the outgoing commander, passed by him to the senior supervising officer, who passes them to the oncoming commander. That's the symbolic change of command part done. Sign the papers, that's the formal change of command part done, then speeches (short-short-short) and then a general salute by the parade and all the senior bunch leaves ... parade dismisses. You can do all that in one hour, everybody in proper uniform.

The idea of "manning the sides" of the ships for cheering can be relegated to the bin of history as far as I am concerned. It used to be done while the outgoing commander was "rowed ashore" by his senior officers in a whaler going by each ship in the fleet. Well, we don't friggin have rowed boats anymore, so get over it.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

CofC parades domestically and CofC ceremonies deployed (at least recently) are *in*.  I've never seen the likes like I witnessed any of the times I was at IMPACT.  The MPs had one for pete sakes...that tells me that (1) there are too many MPs there and (2) there are also too many CofC events there, no matter what name they go under (TOC, CofC, COA, TOA, etc).  

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/gallery/cc_photos/detail/?filename=KW06-2016-0032-001&assetId=56661   If you have time to do this type of stuff, over and over, and it not affect actual operations, then you are * deployment fat* and can send most people home.  

But, new COs coming in likely want their CofC photo ops and outgoings want the departing gift and it will continue.  I've less heartache with the domestic events...the deployed ones made me  :brickwall:.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Sep 2017)

I haven't seen many change of command parades where there was a huge civilian turn out or interest. I think most guests are soldiers ordered to watch or families of soldiers on parade.


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## ballz (4 Sep 2017)

I'm not big on drill / parades / ceremonies / etc although I do appreciate them and their purpose... so if you're going to do it, do it right. If not, just don't do it... it's not a big deal either way. But being half-pregnant is always a disaster.

At this point it seems I've seen all sides of the spectrum... from doing it in combats in a drill hall in 5 minutes, to doing it in scarlet's in Officer Square in Fredericton where it was advertised to the city for 2 weeks prior to come out and watch (well-received by the way I think), to a "tactical" theme with helocasting, securing a beach, etc followed by a big smoker. I don't have a problem with any of them, but seeing the guard sitting down with whites and rifles just seems pretty amateur...


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## SeaKingTacco (4 Sep 2017)

I agree with you Ballz. 

Think about the word "Guard", both as a noun and a verb.

If the intent is to let the guard sit down, they are no longer "guarding" anything anymore and the organizers probably should not then have specified one be present in the first place. It is not the job of a reviewing officer to make life easy for a guard, with the possible exception of keeping their remarks witty and brief.

As for stokers being present in coveralls  :facepalm:. If you don't want them to have their work interrupted, why not just let them carry one with departmental work during the parade?

Either do a CoC parade properly, with all the bows, bells and whistles, or opt for a dignified ceremony.

Getting caught half way in between is not avant garde- it is embarrassing.


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## NavalMoose (4 Sep 2017)

Yes, if you are going to have a Guard, then have one...standing.  I have been on many Guards, some short, some very long, and it's part of the game that it might not be the most comfortable thing.  I would have been embarrassed being in this Guard, sitting down.


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## FSTO (4 Sep 2017)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Either do a CoC parade properly, with all the bows, bells and whistles, or opt for a dignified ceremony.
> 
> Getting caught half way in between is not avant garde- it is embarrassing.



Totally agree. Do it right or don't do it at all.

If you want to thank all the folks who helped you on the way, a hand written note would be much more appreciated by all those involved.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Sep 2017)

ballz said:
			
		

> to a "tactical" theme with helocasting, securing a beach, etc followed by a big smoker.



Sometimes you have a nice swim and a beer at Kiska and other times you're doing 7 full parade rehearsals a day for 2 weeks straight eh 


A ceremony for a change of command parade with chairs for all, shade and maybe even some tasty beverages would be divine.


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## Pusser (6 Sep 2017)

If you think that the speaking parts are going to take so long that the Guard will need to sit down, perhaps you should reconsider the length of the speeches that no one is really listening to anyway.

My favourite parade ever was reviewed by RAdm Edwards.  He spent no more than ten minutes reviewing the ship's company and his speech consisted of "You looked great!  Now let's go up to the mess and talk."  I still remember him talking about the Texas Bar in Lisbon.  Sadly, by the time I got to Lisbon, the Texas Bar had closed.   :'(

Worst parade ever was in the same year when Commodore Fox-Decent spent two hours reviewing the same ship's company and then droned on for an excruciating amount of time.  I have no idea what he talked about.


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## jollyjacktar (6 Sep 2017)

I watched a YouTube video for a Change of Command event for an RAF Helicopter Sqn in Cyprus.  It involved just two birds, was in the air, and the change over was made when the outgoing CO turned the lead over to the incoming CO.  Done. No bullshit, unnecessary drama or need to involve additional Sqn personnel who could then carry on with their daily tasks.  I like it.


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## Halifax Tar (6 Sep 2017)

The best part of this parade was the aftermath on various FB groups where dinos from yester year got all tough and mean about what a disgrace the current RCN is.


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## captloadie (6 Sep 2017)

Maybe in order to get enough members for the guard, they had to use people on chits that don't allow for more than 30 minutes of drill or standing. Letting them sit down didn't breach the MELs  [Xp


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## daftandbarmy (6 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I watched a YouTube video for a Change of Command event for an RAF Helicopter Sqn in Cyprus.  It involved just two birds, was in the air, and the change over was made when the outgoing CO turned the lead over to the incoming CO.  Done. No bullshit, unnecessary drama or need to involve additional Sqn personnel who could then carry on with their daily tasks.  I like it.



Right on!

If I was an outgoing Navy Commander I'd want to rev up a destroyer and boot it out of the harbor with the bow out of the water and all guns firing....

Good thing they don't put paratroopers in charge of warships (unless they're pirates, of course  )


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## trigger324 (16 Sep 2017)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> The best part of this parade was the aftermath on various FB groups where dinos from yester year got all tough and mean about what a disgrace the current RCN is.



this would be fun to see. can you name some of these groups?


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