# AF Spouses



## trobious (29 May 2010)

I have been Googling for over an hour and cannot find any info on Canadian AF wives and their lifestyle.  Flying is MY dream job so it is my responsibility to find out how it will affect the ones left behind (wife and future kids).

The US has a lot of stuff for wives but I want to serve Canada.  

Question 1 of 2. 

Can my wife live in Portage and Moose Jaw during flight school?  Is it easy to find jobs there?  I know she could not live in SouthPort because the AF will provide me with food and accommodations and I have to study my buns off etc.  But it would be nice for her if I could visit her once in a while.

In Moose Jaw, could she and I rent a place together and is rent still cheap?  I know I will still have to study like crazy evenings and weekends.

PS I am willing to go in blind but she has a lot of questions and I want to answer them for her, it's a big sacrifice for her.

Thank you,
T


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## Zoomie (29 May 2010)

Portage - Phase 1 and 3 - no - your wife stays in MJ while you are on Phase 3

Moose Jaw - Phase 2 - yes - cheap rent on base - most guys bring their wives


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## SupersonicMax (29 May 2010)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Portage - Phase 1 and (possibly) 3 - no - your wife stays in MJ while you are on Phase 3



Quick correction 

If you go jets, you'll stay in Moose Jaw for Phase III.  After that, you go to Cold Lake and you can also bring your wife along.


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## 3green (19 Jul 2010)

If you're married, you'll likely be attach posted to wherever your wife is to wait on OJT (on the job "training") after completing Basic Officer Training until flight training starts. I have never heard of anyone with dependents not returning to their family while on OJT (other than by request). 

Your Phase 1 (primary flight training) should only take 3 months. It may be longer but you will go on this training by yourself. After completing PFT you'll return to where your OJT was. If you're not married or just want to try a different place to see another flying community you may have an opportunity to do OJT at a different Squadron but you will have to arrange this with the receiving Sqn and pay for all moving costs on your own. It's not a bad idea to see different Sqn's and different aircraft types before you're asked what your preferences are.

You can bring your wife to phase 2 (basic flight training) in Moose Jaw. It's worth considering whether to bring your wife to MJ or not. The community is a small town with little in the way of recreation or employment opportunities. For many guys, leaving their wife back home (where OJT was done) and attending MJ on "Imposed Restriction" is a better way to go and not uncommon. This means you're restricted from moving your family and all your stuff. Generally, this IR is requested so you're asking for a restriction to be imposed on you but that's all semantics. MJ _should _take 5 to 7 months. But lately there have been delays and it's not uncommon to be on course for a year or more. While on IR, your rent and meals are free and you'll get separation allowance (I think about $300 a month) as well as Leave Travel Assistance - depending on the distance to your next of kin, it's about $500 to Vancouver for example, to travel back home once a year. You can also use it to bring your spouse out to visit you in MJ (reverse LTA).

If you're on IR, after you complete MJ you'll go back to your spouse to do OJT until phase 3 on Multi's or Helo's. If you have brought your wife to MJ, you'll do your OJT there. The wait could be anywhere from a month to up to 8 months, depending on the state of the training system at that time. When you go on Ph3, you must leave your family wherever it is, and like Ph1, go solo. Ph3 should take about 6 months on multi or helo but again it's not uncommon for it to take longer. Once you have wings it takes about a month to get fully posted out of MJ and sent to your new Sqn. At this point you get a full blown all inclusive move and typically you bring your wife to wherever you're going. IR is rarely done at this point.

As mentioned before, if you are selected to fly jets, you'll stay in MJ and continue your ph3 there, get wings and then either be posted to MJ to instruct or sent to Cold Lake for more training. If you want jets, this may influence your decision to bring your wife as your life will be on the prairies for a few more years - if not a few decades. However, peoples' preferences change dramatically sometimes once they start Ph2 and get a taste of what's to come.

Your wife can come and visit you in MJ and Portage - stay in your room in the Barracks and eat at the mess. No problem at all. If she starts to camp out in your room for months on end, someone will probably have a problem. But a visit for 2 weeks or more hasn't been any problem for past courses. There is very little opportunity in Portage and you won't be there very long so although you could put her up in an apartment (or live in one yourself with her) the time frame is so short it's not worth it. I can't speak to the opportunities in MJ but I would guess that unless she's a nurse/doctor/school teacher, the only thing available will be Walmart or Tim Hortons. Rent in the PMQ's in MJ is cheap but there's a long wait list to get one. I have heard from students there now that renting in MJ is difficult and not that cheap.

In some ways being in the training system is very hard on a family. You're gone on course for up to a year (maybe more) but you don't get many of the benefits of a guy who would deploy (and generally not deploy for that long). Although you can visit your wife or vice versa, other than Ph1, training is pretty intense and you have little time for visits. If you do move your family to MJ, it's a Orderly Room move (not a IRP move) so you're not entitled to many of the things that a full move gives you. I don't know what the differences are but you can easily find them on here. You're expected to be ready to go on course at any time (and should be) and expected to perform every day on course. Once you're done training, you go to a Sqn where there is typically more focus on quality of life concerns and you're cut some slack for family considerations. You're stable, posted to one location for a period of time and have a little bit of certainty.

In training, you have no idea what direction your career will take, where you will ultimately live, opportunities for your spouse etc. Generally, guys in training are also unfortunately fed predicted course dates but these are rarely accurate and they aren't told a realistic time frame for their next course. This is difficult because if you're going on course for 8 months starting in a month you need to get ready and get your wife/kids/house ready for moving or you being away for 8 months. If that gets pushed ahead continuously by 6 weeks - for another year - you're constantly spring loaded to go, but never told the real story until the last minute.

All I can say is you need to have your ducks in order and your wife needs to be ready and understand. If she has a good job going right now and/or a good support network of friends or family where you are now, I would discuss with her and give thought to leaving her there. She'll miss you in MJ, but she'll have support. You will be pretty busy in MJ and not have much time for her anyway. It gets better when you're on Sqn and a bit settled.


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## Good2Golf (1 Aug 2010)

3Green, thanks for a very informative post on current training and one's spouse!


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## Bograt (1 Aug 2010)

I brought my wife to Moose Jaw. i also have two young kids, so we (my wife and I) decided to to do Phase II together. She gave up her job and we moved to big sky country. Luckily, our neighbours quickly became our closest friends and she settled in well. She quickly understood what phase II was all about. You need to have the support and understanding at home. When i was on phase II we had an agreement that regardless of what was happening, or required I would go to the basement at 6:30 six nights a week to study. I didn't leave the basement until 11-12 each night- for 8 months.


My wife just peeked over my shoulder and said "absolutely she should go with him, and be given the briefing..." 

Any questions PM me. 

Cheers, and good luck.


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## benny88 (3 Aug 2010)

Wow thanks Bograt, 3Green and the rest of you for some excellent info. This kind of stuff is difficult to find and often taken for granted by those who have figured it out, and therefore not passed on to those of us who now need it. Staff, I think this could use a sticky!

Does having common law or even just "girlfriend" status affect any of this? Obviously it affects moving costs and IR if they're not dependants, but are visits to the shacks and getting a PMQ still good to go? If I get a PMQ during Ph 2, would she be able to keep living there while I go to Portage for Ph 3 if she's not a dependant?


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## Good2Golf (3 Aug 2010)

Concur.  Stuck.  

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Zoomie (3 Aug 2010)

benny88 said:
			
		

> would she be able to keep living there while I go to Portage for Ph 3 if she's not a dependant?



You keep your PMQ when on course in Portage.  It either remains empty or your girlfriend populates it - doesn't really matter.  You won't get IR if you don't have a dependant - so get married or enter a common-law relationship if that is what you intend.


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## Dou You (3 Feb 2011)

I felt this thread was the most suitable place to post my question. It provides great information for Pilots, but I was wondering about ACSO training. Is it possible for your girlfriend to live with you while on the ACSO course in Winnipeg? 

Although the course is still over a year and a half away for me, any information is appreciated. My girlfriend is beginning to ask questions and I would like to give her some answers as soon as possible.


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## dimsum (3 Feb 2011)

Unless things have changed recently, it's a posting (with move, etc.)  So yes, if you live in the PMQs or rent.  I know of people who have bought houses/condos, but I didn't see the point on a course of that length.  Last I remembered, PMQs are fairly cheap and if you could get the ones in the north side (next to the base), super-close to the school and the hangar.


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## Dou You (3 Feb 2011)

Perfect, thank you for the information and the quick reply Dimsum.


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## benny88 (3 Feb 2011)

Dou You said:
			
		

> My girlfriend is beginning to ask questions...




Aaaah! Get out now!


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## murrdawg (14 Oct 2011)

I always laugh when I see this type of thread because most of the time it only has pilots...... And the rest of the air force trades get ignored..... And yet, a pilot can't fly without us other trades.


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## Scott (14 Oct 2011)

murrdawg said:
			
		

> I always laugh when I see this type of thread because most of the time it only has pilots...... And the rest of the air force trades get ignored..... And yet, a pilot can't fly without us other trades.



 ???

I see mostly pilots talking about their experiences and helping one another out...

So what was your point of this necropsy? To troll a bit? Because that's exactly what it looks like to me.

Heck, even the thread title is "AF Spouses" and not "Pilot Spouses"

Scott
Staff


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## Good2Golf (14 Oct 2011)

murrdawg said:
			
		

> I always laugh when I see this type of thread because most of the time it only has seems that  pilots ...... And the rest of the air force trades get ignored..... And yet, a pilot can't fly without us other trades. provide helpful information and everyone else sits back and complains about not getting any information...



FTFY...

p.s.  Nice of you to provide your experiences while at 8 Wing Trenton.  :


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## aesop081 (14 Oct 2011)

murrdawg said:
			
		

> And yet, a pilot can't fly without us other trades.



Conversely, without the aircrew, there is no need to have the airplanes fixed. You just as dependant on the aircrew as the aircrew are on the technicians ( same goes for all other trades). Make no mistake, it takes all our people doing their jobs to make the RCAF work, none are more important than the other.


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## murrdawg (14 Oct 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> I see mostly pilots talking about their experiences and helping one another out...
> 
> So what was your point of this necropsy? To troll a bit? Because that's exactly what it looks like to me.
> 
> Heck, even the thread title is "AF Spouses" and not "Pilot Spouses"



Mostly pilots.... what I meant.... I'm CELE myself, I'm just surprised there aren't more diverse support air force trades who are on this thread posting stuff as well.


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## murrdawg (14 Oct 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> FTFY...
> 
> p.s.  Nice of you to provide your experiences while at 8 Wing Trenton.  :



I grew up in Trenton.... And I wasn't common-law in Trenton either.... If I saw somewhere that I thought worthwhile to post, I would... I mean, just look at my posts for RMC.... I may be young but I'm not stupid.... If someone asked me about my experience, I'd be more than happy to share them.


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## Scott (14 Oct 2011)

What does any of this have to do with the thread at hand? You're just trying to back up your earlier trolling. It ends here. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread other than whines about how you are not recognized like the pilots are then trundle on elsewhere.

Scott
Staff


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## Dou You (14 Oct 2011)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Aaaah! Get out now!



Hahaha I just saw this now...and I'm definitely still in it :facepalm:.


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## murrdawg (14 Oct 2011)

The comments pertained to the thread at hand because I was actually moreso interested in hearing from the other air force trades how their spouses cope, etc. Not just  from the pilot perspective... The point of my post was to moreso get other trades involved in the conversation.


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## Good2Golf (14 Oct 2011)

murrdawg said:
			
		

> The comments pertained to the thread at hand because I was actually moreso interested in hearing from the other air force trades how their spouses cope, etc. Not just  from the pilot perspective... The point of my post was to moreso get other trades involved in the conversation.




"While there seems to be a lot of information for spouses who would follow a pilot through training and operational deployments, what other Air Force experiences might spouses expect in other trades or classifications?"


You mean like that?


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## PuckChaser (14 Oct 2011)

murrdawg said:
			
		

> Mostly pilots.... what I meant.... I'm CELE myself, I'm just surprised there aren't more diverse support air force trades who are on this thread posting stuff as well.



The OP said his dream job was flying, implying he wanted info about how a Pilot's spouse dealt with the demands of the member's job. If you want to hear about other trades, then make your own thread or post a question instead of just trolling.


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## murrdawg (18 Oct 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> "While there seems to be a lot of information for spouses who would follow a pilot through training and operational deployments, what other Air Force experiences might spouses expect in other trades or classifications?"
> 
> 
> You mean like that?



Yes, thank you. I just approached it in I guess what was taken as an offensive way.


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## murrdawg (18 Oct 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The OP said his dream job was flying, implying he wanted info about how a Pilot's spouse dealt with the demands of the member's job. If you want to hear about other trades, then make your own thread or post a question instead of just trolling.



Then perhaps it should be labelled: Pilots Spouses, not AF Spouses..... From the name "AF Spouses" it is topic referring to any AF  spouses, not just pilot's..... It's like they teach on course, make a topic subject pertainable to the content.


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## aesop081 (18 Oct 2011)

murrdawg said:
			
		

> Then perhaps it should be labelled: Pilots Spouses, not AF Spouses..... From the name "AF Spouses" it is topic referring to any AF  spouses, not just pilot's..... It's like they teach on course, make a topic subject pertainable to the content.



Thanks for the lesson professor  :


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## murrdawg (18 Oct 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Thanks for the lesson professor  :



I'm no professor, just a peer to help proof read 

Before anyone else comments on any of the other posts.... I get the point..... It was miscommunication on all fronts.....so no more on the topic.


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## fireman1867 (24 Oct 2011)

I'll throw my 2 cents in here, I moved my wife to MJ and it worked out great, their are pitfalls and they have been covered here and other threads. Another and probably the best option - and I can't believe I am going to say this(because I despise the city) is after you complete basic/SLT take a posting to Winnipeg. A few of my friends did this and it worked out very very well.  Firstly your wife will be able to find some form of meaningful employment, you can stay there for you entire pre wing career which can be close to 4 years especially if you go RW/FW. During all training phases you are 45min(Portage) and 6ish hours from MJ so your wife is always accessible etc.


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## Good2Golf (24 Oct 2011)

fireman1867 said:
			
		

> I'll throw my 2 cents in here, I moved my wife to MJ and it worked out great, their are pitfalls and they have been covered here and other threads. Another and probably the best option - and I can't believe I am going to say this(because I despise the city) is after you complete basic/SLT take a posting to Winnipeg. A few of my friends did this and it worked out very very well.  Firstly your wife will be able to find some form of meaningful employment, you can stay there for you entire pre wing career which can be close to 4 years especially if you go RW/FW. During all training phases you are 45min(Portage) and 6ish hours from MJ so your wife is always accessible etc.



 :nod:

I did a short tour in Winnipeg and my wife and I really enjoyed it, notwithstanding all the 'horror stories' we had heard prior to the posting.  It even gave great material for my wife to recount 'war stories' to her friends on Vancouver Island about 'warming' her hands in the freezer because it was about 30 degrees warmer than outside.  ;D

Regards
G2G


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## HeavyHooker (8 Nov 2011)

For the original poster, try checking out some military wives blogs.  My wife has one and has gotten excellent reviews on it.  I won't post the link here (don't want the pee-pee slap) but if you would like the link, PM me.  Most of the wives who do this kind of thing use it as an emotional outpouring of sorts so your old lady can get a first hand account.

Although I am obvious partial to my wife's blog, tell her to read several different ones in order to get an accurate picture.

HH


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## Pistos (18 Nov 2011)

My wife is on the "Married to the CF" forum, what I consider the sister site to army.ca  It's a kinder, gentler site where spouses can discuss issues, ask questions and share knowledge and experience with each other.  She found it a great resource before and during my training and still frequents there.

That's all from me.


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## HeavyHooker (19 Nov 2011)

Wifey is interested in that forum.  Can you PM me a link please?

HH


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## rotrhed (18 Jan 2012)

At the risk of reviving a dead thread, I'd like to add that the situation for PhII(G) in Portage has changed.  In the past, students had the option to be posted in to 3CFFTS but that is not the case as of last summer.  Too frequently, students were being posted without sufficient time to complete a HHT, sell their house and find adequate accom in Portage.  The rental market is 'difficult' in the city; the number of properties meeting a certain standard are few and students had found it difficult to find a place to live.  In some cases, students were arriving with insufficient time to conduct an unload/unpack before the course started.  So postings were ceased with new options provided.

Presently, a student can accept an IR move to 3CFFTS and live in accom at Southport (eating at the mess).  Or, in the case of a married student, he/she can accept a posting to Winnipeg and acquire accom in that city.  While on course, he/she stays in accom at Southport but the dependants remain in Winnipeg.  This provides a better range of accom and support (in Winnipeg) but keeps the student and the dependants closer.  On rare occasions, a student _may_ be permitted to live outside the geopgraphical area of Winnipeg (and acquire accom in Portage).  The upside is that the student lives where he/she works; the downside is if that student ends up CT, his/her posting is still to Winnipeg.  As 3CFFTS is not established to accept long-term OJT, that would likely mean the student would be put in a post-CT OJT position in Winnipeg....and on their own dine to get there and back.

The bugs were still being worked out of this new policy when I left 3CFFTS in October 2011.  Unless things have drastically changed though, anyone going to PhII(G) should expect to live in shacks with their dependants either back at their original OJT base or in Winnipeg.


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## PAdm (1 Apr 2013)

My best advice is that Portage/Moose Jaw is the least of your worries.  You need to think long term.  This is the first of many moves where your loyal family will have to leave friends, quit a job, move schools, live in a PMQ, lose money on a house, be separated etc, etc, etc.  They make do and chase your dream.  it is what military families do.  i echo those who have referred you to other forums as you have not begun to scratch the surface.  Easy question - complicated answer and one better asked of spouses, not mil members.  Just my 2 cents.


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## NLockhart (23 May 2013)

Hi All,

I really appreciate all the info on here. One post stated that most married guys do their OJT where their spouse is but what if there isn't a squadron to be posted to? Where I live we only have a Army Reserve unit. Moose jaw and the 408 squadron are equally close to my house so would I be posted to one of those?


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## SkyHeff (13 Jun 2013)

If able, the CoC will try and help you stay close to family (if that's what you want).

I was recently posted at an airbase which is a ~3 hours down the road from home so I could gain relevant OJT. Due to personal circumstances and course time frames, I requested to be posted to an option closer to home (CFRC in this case), and it was approved.


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## NLockhart (13 Jun 2013)

Ok thanks for sharing your personal experience. My wife and I are expecting to be apart on OJT but it's good to know that there's a chance it could be limited. Are you on OJT right now? What were your wait times like?


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## Duckman54 (5 Aug 2013)

I'm in same boat... DEO Pilot, about to head off to BMOQ, wondering aloud about first (and subsequent?) OJT periods.  I'm in northern BC, and there is NUTHIN' anywhere close to me in terms of DND facilities.  Guess my closest would be Comox, CFRC Vancouver (actually in New Westminster, my hometown), or Edmonton?  Yeesh...  either one is darn-near 12 hrs drive.

So far, the Plan is  (I know, I know... you wanna make God laugh, make a Plan) wifey stays put while I bounce around the country until Wings, then get first 'Posting' somewhere and move her-n-household along.  Saw on another thread on here that Pilot training backlog is essentially nil, meaning very (mercifully) short OJT periods.  That should work out fine...  With minimal time btwn courses, process should line up pretty darn close with youngest one's highschool graduation... Then we're portable!

But, Reality could have something different in store! lol!  Guess we'll see!

'Greg.


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## dad (27 Jan 2014)

keep us posted id love to hear how it goes. i'm sure by now you got news for us to hear.


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## matthew1786 (27 Jan 2014)

dad said:
			
		

> keep us posted id love to hear how it goes. i'm sure by now you got news for us to hear.



I second this. Let us know.


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## Mab163 (1 Apr 2014)

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> I second this. Let us know.



I'd like also to hear feedback from you Duckman54


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## djcwall (18 Feb 2016)

Hello,

This may be a question that is asked often but I am writing to inquire about how easily the transition is to a new lifestyle for the families of the serving member.

I've recently learned that I'm likely to make pilot and I'm concerned about my current long term relationship, I feel like it would be unfair of me to even ask for the sacrifice it would take for my SO to come with me, yet I'm also unwilling to not make the offer. How have others handled this in the past? It's clearly possible to work out, have there been any resent/regret within the families that have tried to make this work?

I'm not sure if I'm even asking the right questions, but any advice or comments would be wonderful.

Thank you,

John


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## Loachman (18 Feb 2016)

Merged.


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## Zoomie (12 Mar 2016)

djcwall said:
			
		

> have there been any resent/regret within the families that have tried to make this work?


Plenty of that to go around.  Don't make any promises of a timeline to your GF - I still hear about it 15 years later how I said that we would only be in MJ for a year!


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