# Ways to improve navy.ca



## PhoenixWright (16 Jul 2014)

I have lurked on this website for a great deal of time and there is an issue here that would do well to be rectified, depending on the point of view of the staff. If you would like your website to be inviting to civilians with queries and members of the military who have not spent twenty years in yet, then it might be worthwhile to read on, but if you would prefer for this forum to remain a Chief & Petty Officer's mess, well,, don't bother.

This forum is essentially the gateway for all military members across the country to discuss things, as well as give civilians direction if they have questions about joining or our operations.

However, the toxic atmosphere here makes it difficult for them to relate and sets a bad tone of the military from the get-go. The users here are very concerned with the military image, but are typically rude to new users.

Not too long ago, there was a new forum created, called recruits only, a place solely for new users.  This was done, evidently, due to the great number of recruiting questions that were so toxic to the recruiting  forum that they had to be hidden away from the senior users because it was such a waste of their time to tell them every time to search the forum for the answer. You know, if you have the time to tell them to search, you have the time to give them a reasonable answer. It is very offputting to new users. 

And then there is the internet rank pulling. I have seen so many times where milpoints are used as leverage. Sometimes that fails and you have to actually be an internet sleuth and use the GAL to pull rank on someone who disagreed with you, which flies in the face of the terms and conditions relating to privacy, but oh well.

Here's an example of a healthy military discussion forum for Canada:

http://www.reddit.com/r/canadianforces

No one is insulted if they make a repetitive post because discussion is encouraged and the forum isn't an old boys club. This forum could be the same if you chose to be more inviting.

Yep.


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## observor 69 (17 Jul 2014)

Just checked it out PW. You got a point there.
I might hang around the site, has potential. 
Thx


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## PMedMoe (17 Jul 2014)

IMO, the people who get rude reactions/answers here are either the ones who think they're "special", the ones who show up with attitude or the ones who continuously start new threads with repetitive questions.

People who come on here with well thought out and intelligently worded posts, usually do okay.

I'm guessing you're not a mod at Reddit (but I bet I can guess your user name there), so you probably haven't heard of bandwidth.  Not to mention, with numerous posts on the same topic/question, the search function gets bogged down.

I think the Reddit site looks amateurish and unorganized, but hey, if you prefer it, enjoy.


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## Eye In The Sky (17 Jul 2014)

MAYBE some of us get annoyed because Little Johny comes to this site and says "MY recruiter told me blah blah blah, and I was talking after to my friends cousins uncles wife's best friend and she told me blah blah blah.  So can someone tell me if what they said is true?".

Or, they can't form a basic sentence.  Or they can't spell, or refuse to because it isn't cool.  

AFAIK, the sole purpose of this website isn't to serve the needs of the self-entitled "I want my answer NOW!" folks, who can't be *bothered* to search the forum for answers that have, in many many cases, been answered and RE-answered time and time again.

If new users are "off put", I guess they'll have to fill out a hurt feelings report.  People who want a career in the ARMED FORCES shouldn't expect an atmosphere similar to a "there, there it's ok" daycare.


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## jacob_ns (17 Jul 2014)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I think the Reddit site looks amateurish and unorganized



And amateurish and unorganized website that is ranked #54 globally by Alexa while army.ca is ranked #683,936. That said, it's comparing apples to oranges.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2014)

We're not getting into a pissing match over this.

To each his own.

---Staff---


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## George Wallace (17 Jul 2014)

jacob_ns said:
			
		

> And amateurish and unorganized website that is ranked #54 globally by Alexa while army.ca is ranked #683,936. That said, it's comparing apples to oranges.



Those rankings really mean nothing.  One is a global site, and the other is primarily a Canadian interest site.  As you say, apples and oranges.

Perhaps if this were army.world, then it may see much better rankings.  But that is not the intent of this site.



We have been down this road several times in the past.  Ways to improve army/navy/air force/milnet.ca and for all the detractors, we still have many satisfied members and visitors.  The majority of worse case problems have been Trolls.  Other problems have been, as stated by others, persons too lazy to research or are never satisfied with the answer they are given and start new threads to ask, or just reword their question ad nauseum.   Then there are those whose parents told them that they can be anything that they want to be, and can not handle the answer "NO", followed closely by some with such delegate sensibilities that any answer from a military type insults them.

Suggestions are always welcome, and improvements can be made.  The site is constantly changing and innovating.  Just remember; you can't satisfy all the people, all the time.


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Aug 2014)

Here's the bald truth: We can do better

The good news is, we are trying. I recognize we are not always the most inviting site to newcomers. It is extremely difficult to strike the right balance of being so open and unruly that no useful info can be found, and being so locked up and policed that no new info is added. This is our number one problem, and we are trying to find that balance.

All I can ask is that if you get discouraged, please stick around and try to shift the tone instead of disappearing into the ether. We have a good thing going here, and with your help, it can be better.

For more reading on the topic (and to back up that this is a priority for us) have a scan through these threads:


Tone and Content on Army.ca
We Are Family
On Being DS
Rank usage and other such nonsense
Army.ca: Setting Proper Expectations


Cheers
Mike


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## Braveheart (10 Aug 2014)

Good post PhoenixWright, your communication skills are inspirational.


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## Yrys (10 Aug 2014)

I might be a zebra in a world of white or black horses AS
I<m a civilian with no interest to join, but curiosity about 
the army (due to my francophone mom being in the white 
male anglo RCAF in the <60)...

I<ve never been discouraged just had others interests for a while.

... AND that isn<t to start a thread about merit of army vs aviation vs navy  >

(Mom, forgot to brag about it the last time I was on your tomb, 
BUT I DO PRAY that you<re not still sorry to have not show me English .
BUT you might have help by NOT doing my English homeworks you know  :nod


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Aug 2014)

Braveheart said:
			
		

> Good post PhoenixWright, your communication skills are inspirational.



Perhaps you should try emulate them.

Have you been sworn in yet? Just wondering as you merit listed in April and haven't changed your sig line.


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## Braveheart (10 Aug 2014)

I Haven't got my call yet unfortunately but if/when I do you can bet one of the first things I will do along side shrieking like a little girl and calling up my family and close friends is post an update in the application process samples and/or selection dates thread to let people know about calls going out  ;D


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## George Wallace (10 Aug 2014)

Braveheart said:
			
		

> I Haven't got my call yet unfortunately but if/when I do you can bet one of the first things I will do along side shrieking like a little girl and calling up my family and close friends is post an update in the application process samples and/or selection dates thread to let people know about calls going out  ;D




 ???

And what may I ask does your getting your call have to do with improving this site?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Aug 2014)

Because RG asked him....


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## BeyondTheNow (11 Aug 2014)

PhoenixWright said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> Yep.



I do understand your thoughts to a certain extent. But I'll speak from a noob who came here much like most do, and who has gotten some flack. 

1). If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it.

I came here relatively sure of myself, probably coming off slightly cocky, not always thinking before I typed and not fully understanding the tone of the site and/or its users sentiments on many topics, not singly related to the military. 

2). If you offend DS/longtime users, apologize, move on, take note of what ticked them off (tone, wording, difficult typing style, not adhering to simple requests i.e. No txt speak, arguing, etc.), don't do it again. 

Most of the well-known users (including/not including DS) do a ton of reading. Some do an equal amount of typing. I didn't understand at first why a simple question, even if posed exquisitely, can still grate on nerves.  But it does.  Compared to many, I am not on much these days, but each time I log on I know I'm going to read something that really didn't need to be asked within the first 10 minutes of someone joining up. Which leads us to...

3). Read, read, read...then read some more. Not just things that you think you're interested in, but read something that might seem mundane/boring every now and then. 

Personally, this is vitally important to a user's success on this site. (_If you just want a quick answer to a quick question, then just google it. A minute or two of that will generally give one what they need_.) But with actually taking the time, one will acquire much more than just info about a topic of interest, they will learn how the site operates. They will learn the dynamics between trades, users (seniors and non) & major areas of the military. They will come across posts that evoke all sorts of emotions. They will actually get to know (on a superficial level, of course) some of the users and read their experiences that lend insight as to why they feel the way they do about certain things. Yes, you'll come across some bickering, some low-balling, maybe some comments that you don't feel are necessary. But the positives out-weigh the negatives, and in my experience, most forums with the number of users this site contains has much worse going on.

Someone doesn't answer something the way a user sees fit? Yes, that will happen. But there are a ton of users here with different approaches. Some are polite and lengthy, some are snippy, some are comedic, some are blunt/direct. *Ultimately, a user will get from this site what they choose to take out. *Me? I get sworn in at the end of the month, and the aid that I have received via this site has been immense. There are people who are more than willing to help, others are here to moderate, others are here to contribute where they can and that's it, others just like the sight of their own username. 

To new users, give it a chance.


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## Mike5 (13 Aug 2014)

The other side of the coin...

- When I need information I check the appropriate forums on this site for relevant threads.
- If I cannot readily find the information I need, I post a targeted question to an existing thread on the same topic.  If there is no existing thread, I start a new one.
- I almost always get good, informed answers to my questions from people who seem to know what they're talking about.
- I have never been subject to unwarranted, unconstructive or excessive criticism.

End result -- went from no military experience to a commission in the Army in a great trade.  End of the day, if you are just passing time, any site will do.  If you are serious about serving, stick around.


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