# Shelved Forces Ads Aimed at Aboriginals Offensive to the Point of Being Racist



## Bruce Monkhouse (30 Jul 2012)

Unfreakin' believeable,...maybe we could spend $50,000+ seeing if black inner-city youth would be allured by suggestions of watermelons in all mess halls.................. :

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/30/canadian-forces-aboriginal-ads/

Shelved Canadian Forces ads aimed at aboriginals ‘offensive to the point of being comical’
National Post Wire Services  Jul 30, 2012 – 4:56 PM ET | Last Updated: Jul 30, 2012 4:59 PM ET
Postmedia News Files

A Canadian Forces aboriginal recruiting ad that likened building a canoe to serving on a warship was torpedoed after focus groups found it “offensive to the point of being comical,” says a newly released report

OTTAWA — A Canadian Forces aboriginal recruiting ad that likened building a canoe to serving on a warship was nixed after focus groups found it “offensive to the point of being comical,” says a newly released report.
Groups in Vancouver were so put off by the radio spot, in fact, that a polling firm warned airing it could hurt the military’s reputation.

“Although commentary was at times measured from participants, likely due to awareness of being observed and politeness, body language clearly reinforced the negative reactions among two groups in Vancouver,” the report says.
 “Indeed the degree of offence was deemed to be high, posing a potential risk to the reputation of the Forces were this ad to be released publicly, at least in British Columbia.”

Defence spent just over $53,000 to pre-test new material designed for young people with an aboriginal background, and to test existing material designed for the general population of young Canadians. Corporate Research Associates Inc. (CRA), the company that DND commissioned for the testing conducted in January, submitted a report to Defence in the spring.

While the mainstream ads were generally positively received, the same couldn’t be said for many of the ads aimed at aboriginal people. The posters lacked “certain elements to heighten credibility and improve comprehension,” the reaction to the web banners was “lukewarm at best” and the radio ads received some quite negative reactions, according to the report.

“[The Canadian Forces] should review some of the materials aimed at Aboriginal people to increase relevance and ensure it remains culturally respectful,” the report said.
The testers worked with six focus groups of aboriginal people (including First Nations, Metis and Inuit) aged 18 to 34 in Vancouver, Sept-Iles, Que., and Iqaluit, and another six groups from non-aboriginal populations of the same ages in Vancouver, Sept-Iles and Halifax.

CRA’s top recommendation was that a radio ad comparing canoe-making with serving on a warship be scrapped. The ad, looking to recruit mechanics, was received particularly poorly in the Vancouver focus group, which found it “offensive, not believable and reinforcing of negative stereotypes,” according to the report.

“Many felt that it was offensive to the point of being comical,” the report said.
 “Findings suggest a risk to the reputation of the Canadian Forces should it decide to release this ad.”
Another recommendation was to ensure that the Inuktitut text on the posters matched the English content. One poster, recruiting for an administration specialist, included words related to “dragging” objects that weren’t included in the English version, the report said.

In that same poster, some people felt that the aboriginal person in the forefront was merely a “token” who wasn’t depicted as part of the team.

“It would be more appealing if they showed a mix of races or more than one Aboriginal,” one of the commenters in an aboriginal focus group said in the report.

In reviewing one radio advertisement, some of the people in the aboriginal focus groups criticized the speaker’s Inuktitut pronunciation of the letter “r.” In the radio ad recruiting mechanics, some Iqaluit participants said the voice used in the Inuktitut version was using the kutuk dialect, which they said is not respected.
The report recommended that the person’s accent should be selected carefully to make sure it’s accepted in the communities where the ad will be aired.
“This will ensure the ad is taken seriously,” the report noted.

There were some positive reactions to some of the aboriginal ads, citing the portrayal of proud and capable aboriginal people and a strong female presence in the posters, and the diversity of ethnic backgrounds represented in the web banners.

The Canadian’s Forces have a priority to better reflect Canada’s diversity, the report said, but noted that very few aboriginal people have joined the military.

One of the aims of the research was to understand the “values, motivators and reservations” that influence views regarding employment in the Canadian Forces among aboriginal people, the report said.
Among both test groups, the Canadian Forces was viewed as offering good pay and benefits, stability and adventure. But a military career was also viewed as a long-term commitment that implied discipline, strictness, hard work and dangerous situations.

Pride in serving one’s country was “more top of mind” among the aboriginal people in the study than in the non-aboriginal focus groups, the report said.
Defence did not immediately respond to an interview request Monday.

With files from Postmedia and The Canadian Press


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## aesop081 (30 Jul 2012)

Imagine that, a focus group served the purpose a focus group is supposed to.

 :boring:


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## jollyjacktar (30 Jul 2012)

Did they not have some Aboriginal members involved in writing these ads?  Or at the very least get input during the production?  At least they had the foresight to use the focus group before declaring weapons free.   :facepalm:


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## Strike (30 Jul 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Imagine that, a focus group served the purpose a focus group is supposed to.
> 
> :boring:



Exactly. Some members of a focus group were unimpressed with a certain commercial and suggestions were made to improve a whole bunch of other ads.  I don't see why this is even newsworthy.


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## Colin Parkinson (31 Jul 2012)

_In reviewing one radio advertisement, some of the people in the aboriginal focus groups criticized the speaker’s Inuktitut pronunciation of the letter “r.” In the radio ad recruiting mechanics, some Iqaluit participants said the voice used in the Inuktitut version was using the kutuk dialect, *which they said is not respected*._

So much for diversity and respect amongst the aboriginal groups.


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## Jarnhamar (31 Jul 2012)

Colin P said:
			
		

> _In reviewing one radio advertisement, some of the people in the aboriginal focus groups criticized the speaker’s Inuktitut pronunciation of the letter “r.” In the radio ad recruiting mechanics, some Iqaluit participants said the voice used in the Inuktitut version was using the kutuk dialect, *which they said is not respected*._



 :


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## Maxadia (31 Jul 2012)

And there's the rub: Who exactly is an Aboriginal? And how much? 100%? 75%? Less?  And even IF you could come to a consensus on that, what kind of a background would be most suitable for this?  How do you guarantee that they have the life experience needed to produce something that will please everyone?

That's why you have focus groups....to oversee what you overlooked.


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## blacktriangle (1 Aug 2012)

Here are my thoughts:

Why do we even care if we are recruiting Aboriginals?


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## SeaKingTacco (1 Aug 2012)

Fastest growing youth demographic in Canada?


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## Maxadia (1 Aug 2012)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> Why do we even care if we are recruiting Aboriginals?



Why would we not?


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## blacktriangle (1 Aug 2012)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Fastest growing youth demographic in Canada?



Are you serious? Where are they?


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## SeaKingTacco (1 Aug 2012)

Yeah, I'm serious.

Native kids are pretty much everywhere- cities; rural areas; reserves.

What is the issue?


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## Journeyman (1 Aug 2012)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> Why do we even care if we are recruiting Aboriginals?



"Connect with Canadians" -- it's a CF line of operations.

In this case, having members of Canada's diverse range of citizens serving within the CF illustrates that we represent Canadians. Don't misunderstand, there's nothing in the recruiting offering special deals or different standards, merely letting the Aboriginal communities know that the CF is a potential career/employment option.


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## Maxadia (1 Aug 2012)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Are you serious? Where are they?



Did you happen to know that we also have a very large French-speaking population in this country too?  :

PS - I bet a beer that Journeyman checked to see if this thread was in the Recruiting forum.  ;D


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## blacktriangle (1 Aug 2012)

I guess I just have a hard time getting my head around the fact that we still care about race in this day and age. I don't see a need for a special commercial etc to target certain groups. People will join or not join, and be trained from there.


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## Maxadia (1 Aug 2012)

It's called diversity...and people have learned that it is a good thing to have in any organization.  So when a hole is seen, people try to help fill it in.


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## Journeyman (1 Aug 2012)

RDJP said:
			
		

> PS - I bet a beer that Journeyman checked to see if this thread was in the Recruiting forum.  ;D


OK, I'm down a beer  
Normally this level of discussion gets......contained, yet this one is neither in Recruiting or The Mess/Radio Chatter.  :not-again:


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## George Wallace (1 Aug 2012)

RDJP said:
			
		

> It's called diversity...and people have learned that it is a good thing to have in any organization.  So when a hole is seen, people try to help fill it in.




AH!  That Diversity Training that followed in the footsteps of SHARP Training.  We had that.  Are you an "X" or an "O"?  We all looked at each other and wondered why we were getting this.  Why wasn't it "Similarity Training"?  Why weren't we being lectured on how we were all the same?  We looked around the room and all of us were wearing the same uniform.  Why was anyone trying to lecture us on how we were all different?  That is rather divisive, don't you think?


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## Colin Parkinson (1 Aug 2012)

Considering some of the issues facing native youths, a career in the military is likely a good thing and many have served with great honour in the past. In fact if i was doing this I would focus on some of the native hero's of past wars and suggest that the next generation can follow in their footsteps.


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## Maxadia (1 Aug 2012)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> AH!  That Diversity Training that followed in the footsteps of SHARP Training.  We had that.  Are you an "X" or an "O"?  We all looked at each other and wondered why we were getting this.  Why wasn't it "Similarity Training"?  Why weren't we being lectured on how we were all the same?  We looked around the room and all of us were wearing the same uniform.  Why was anyone trying to lecture us on how we were all different?  That is rather divisive, don't you think?



That would depend on your views on being a multicultural society, instead of a melting pot. Some would say it is divisive, others would suggest that it makes us stronger. In a lot of things, that depends on what aspect you are looking at.


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## Snakedoc (1 Aug 2012)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> I guess I just have a hard time getting my head around the fact that we still care about race in this day and age. I don't see a need for a special commercial etc to target certain groups. People will join or not join, and be trained from there.



I think it makes sense to still 'care about race in this day and age.'  We need to recognize that we are in fact a diverse society with people coming from all sorts of backgrounds. Targeting recruiting commercials to better fit certain groups makes sense rather than just putting our heads in the sand and pretending race/ethnicity/different cultures don't exist within our Canadian fabric.  In fact, I think that's what makes us Canadian and one of the reasons why the CF strives to better reflect Canadian society.  As long as we all meet the same standard and do the same job, I don't see an issue with this.

WRT the article, agreed that it was a slow news day.  All in all, a focus group was done, the results taken into consideration, and the commercials scrapped.  Nothing was released and that is the entire point of doing focus groups in the first place, companies do market research like this all the time. 'nuff said.


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## daftandbarmy (1 Aug 2012)

It looks like we are trying to pursue a realtively sophisticated marketing strategy as it applies to recruiting for the CF. One of the target markets is obviously Aboriginals. How good have we been at doing up to this point in the history of the CF? Not very.... except for WASP white guys of course  ;D


Demographic Segmentation

Demographic segmentation consists of dividing the market into groups based on variables such as age, gender, family size, income, occupation, education, religion, race and nationality. As one might expect, demographic segmentation variables are amongst the most popular bases for segmenting customer groups. This is partly because customer wants are closely linked to variables such as income and age. Also, for practical reasons, there is often much more data available to help with the demographic segmentation process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation


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## Greymatters (1 Aug 2012)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Considering some of the issues facing native youths, a career in the military is likely a good thing and many have served with great honour in the past. In fact if i was doing this I would focus on some of the native hero's of past wars and suggest that the next generation can follow in their footsteps.



I think it would be more effective if they depicted or offered personal talks with currently serving CF members with First Nations backgrounds - this way potential recruits can learn about what it is currently like, not how it used to be like...


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## Jarnhamar (1 Aug 2012)

How about a commercial where someone looking for work gets a challenging well paying job that provides for them and their family?

I thought I read somewhere that one of these commercials had an aboriginal building a canoe. Really?  It's 2012.


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## Strike (1 Aug 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Demographic Segmentation
> 
> Demographic segmentation consists of dividing the market into groups based on variables such as age, gender, family size, income, occupation, education, religion, race and nationality. As one might expect, demographic segmentation variables are amongst the most popular bases for segmenting customer groups. This is partly because customer wants are closely linked to variables such as income and age. Also, for practical reasons, there is often much more data available to help with the demographic segmentation process.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation



Good point.  We all remember the commercials from 5-8 yrs ago that were clearly aimed at the mid-20s gamers.  Don't tell me those weren't based on some sort of demographic.


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## daftandbarmy (1 Aug 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> Good point.  We all remember the commercials from 5-8 yrs ago that were clearly aimed at the mid-20s gamers.  Don't tell me those weren't based on some sort of demographic.



Bingo... and here's an example of what the US military is doing to attract that 'demographic':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiB3vrhPDNs&feature=related

Kind of slays our 'Fight' club, doesn't it?


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## Greymatters (1 Aug 2012)

There are still persons of First Nations background who make canoes (including other variations of maritime travel) in the old ways, but it tends to be related to professional trade, passing on tribal heritage and skills, and/or of spiritual significance.  To imply that all First Nations people go around chopping down trees and making canoes out of them is part of the stereotyping they mentioned.


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## The Bread Guy (1 Aug 2012)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> There are still persons of First Nations background who make canoes (including other variations of maritime travel) in the old ways, but it tends to be related to professional trade, passing on tribal heritage and skills, and/or of spiritual significance.  *To imply that all First Nations people go around chopping down trees and making canoes out of them is part of the stereotyping they mentioned*.


Especially when you consider more Aboriginal people live off reserve than on reserve in Canada - like any heterogenous group, tough to come up with broad-brush messaging that will hit all bases.


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## Maxadia (1 Aug 2012)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> I think it would be more effective if they depicted or offered personal talks with currently serving CF members with First Nations backgrounds - this way potential recruits can learn about what it is currently like, not how it used to be like...



I agree. 

The first person to come to mind will be Tommy Prince - and that will bring some delusions of grandeur.


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## Jarnhamar (1 Aug 2012)

Next time the CF could probably save $53'000 if they log into army.ca and just ask "hey is this dumb?"

Just saying..


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## Sig_Des (1 Aug 2012)

Funny, when I first saw the topic I immediately thought of the scene in the old SHARP video "He can't be gay, he's an Indian!"

Personally, when targeting a specific demographic, imo instead of going with commercials, put that money into actually passing information material or actually going to places where you'll hit the demographic.

This past spring I spoke to a gr 11 class in a primarily aboriginal community. You want to hit that audience? Specific programs available, ie Bold Eagle. Talk to what the military has to offer, education and trade-wise, and draw correlations to the community values, ie Team and warrior spirit. The school staff there wanted as much information about Bold Eagle, as they loved it as a viable option to offer students.


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## Edward Campbell (1 Aug 2012)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Funny, when I first saw the topic I immediately thought of the scene in the old SHARP video "He can't be gay, he's an Indian!"
> 
> Personally, when targeting a specific demographic, imo instead of going with commercials, and put that money into actually passing information material or actually going to places where you'll hit the demographic.
> 
> This past spring I spoke to a gr 11 class in a primarily aboriginal community. You want to hit that audience? Specific programs available, ie Bold Eagle. Talk to what the military has to offer, education and trade-wise, and draw correlations to the community values, ie Team and warrior spirit. The school staff there wanted as much information about Bold Eagle, as they loved it as a viable option to offer students.




Many years decades ago we used to recruit a rather large number of aboriginals.

Individual regiments and corps were given some discretion in finding and selecting aboriginal recruits. In at least one Regiment there was an annual 'recruiting drive' in selected communities: a senior NCO and a couple of junior NCOs, good people and aboriginals themselves, went to those specific communities and visited young men (we were only recruiting men into that Regiment in those days) and their families and teachers and community leaders. It was expensive but, as far as my memory serves, we got good men and they, in disproportionate numbers, became good, solid career NCOs. (We did, by the way, in that Regiment, at at time (1960s) have at least one one aboriginal officer (one I knew personally) but he up and married an Australian girl, transferred to the Australian Army and had a good career there - retiring, as far as I know, as a LCol.)

My perception is that the aboriginal education system has failed aboriginals on reserves. Sixty plus years ago aboriginal education was below 'standard' but, since all we asked of any recruit was Grade 8, we could make do with semi-literate but 'smart' aboriginal kids. Now, when the CF needs Grade 12 we you they can no longer "make do" with a kid who has something less than a Grade 9 equivalent - and that, I am told, is about what most aboriginals manage to achieve, no matter what it might say on their diplomas. (I am "told" that by university professors who are managing remedial programmes in almost everything for kids who have high school diplomas that are meaningless.)


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## daftandbarmy (1 Aug 2012)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Funny, when I first saw the topic I immediately thought of the scene in the old SHARP video "He can't be gay, he's an Indian!"
> 
> Personally, when targeting a specific demographic, imo instead of going with commercials, and put that money into actually passing information material or actually going to places where you'll hit the demographic.
> 
> This past spring I spoke to a gr 11 class in a primarily aboriginal community. You want to hit that audience? Specific programs available, ie Bold Eagle. Talk to what the military has to offer, education and trade-wise, and draw correlations to the community values, ie Team and warrior spirit. The school staff there wanted as much information about Bold Eagle, as they loved it as a viable option to offer students.



And don't forget to mention this guy:  https://www.historica-dominion.ca/content/heritage-minutes/tommy-prince


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## bridges (1 Aug 2012)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> I guess I just have a hard time getting my head around the fact that we still care about race in this day and age. I don't see a need for a special commercial etc to target certain groups. People will join or not join, and be trained from there.



If I had to guess, I'd say that maybe there are still barriers to certain groups that we are working to remove, and maybe the representation (or not) of Canadian society in the CF is something that ultimately affects all of us in one way or another.   Maybe it makes the CF not as strong as it could be, if certain people aren't joining -?   Not sure what the rationale is, exactly, but those'd be my starting guesses.

At any rate, I recommend checking with someone of a non-majority race, before deciding that we don't need to care about race anymore.  

And for the ad designers:  





			
				ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Next time the CF could probably save $53'000 if they log into army.ca and just ask "hey is this dumb?"
> 
> Just saying..


    :nod:   Unfortunately even ill-advised ideas would be seen by everyone, but apparently everyone finds out anyway...


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## Greymatters (1 Aug 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> My perception is that the aboriginal education system has failed aboriginals on reserves. Sixty plus years ago aboriginal education was below 'standard' but, since all we asked of any recruit was Grade 8, we could make do with semi-literate but 'smart' aboriginal kids. Now, when the CF needs Grade 12 we you they can no longer "make do" with a kid who has something less than a Grade 9 equivalent - and that, I am told, is about what most aboriginals manage to achieve, no matter what it might say on their diplomas. (I am "told" that by university professors who are managing remedial programmes in almost everything for kids who have high school diplomas that are meaningless.)



Its very dependent on the community; some have very good relations with local colleges and universities, and good dialogue with local elders,  so that even those who drop out often have the opportunity to go back and get the G12 equivalent once they realize how important it is to getting a job and making a career for themself.


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## The Bread Guy (1 Aug 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> If I had to guess, I'd say that maybe there are still barriers to certain groups that we are working to remove, and maybe the representation (or not) of Canadian society in the CF is something that ultimately affects all of us in one way or another.   Maybe it makes the CF not as strong as it could be, if certain people aren't joining -?   Not sure what the rationale is, exactly, but those'd be my starting guesses.


The idea is that it's best to have a mix of Canadians in the military similar to the mix of Canadians in society so everyone can say "they're OUR Armed Forces," not "THEIR Armed Forces" - similar rationale for police forces having mixes similar to the communities they police.



			
				bridges said:
			
		

> At any rate, I recommend checking with someone of a non-majority race, before deciding that we don't need to care about race anymore.


That one's been debated elsewhere in the forums, and a slightly broader question than, "should we do more to recruit group x so group x can also feel the military/cops look like/are there to protect them, too?"


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## dimsum (1 Aug 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The idea is that it's best to have a mix of Canadians in the military similar to the mix of Canadians in society so everyone can say "they're OUR Armed Forces," not "THEIR Armed Forces" - similar rationale for police forces having mixes similar to the communities they police.



The big difference between community policing and the CF (location-wise) is that most of our bases aren't exactly in urban centres where a lot of the "mixing" happens to be.  I've mentioned this in other threads, but it's a bit hard to convince the young person of whatever "non-traditional CF demographic" to up and move from, say, Toronto or Vancouver to Pet or Cold Lake, for instance.  The PRes seem to be doing fairly well in Toronto and Vancouver, as far as I can tell, but then again it's based on the unit's location.


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## Colin Parkinson (1 Aug 2012)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> I think it would be more effective if they depicted or offered personal talks with currently serving CF members with First Nations backgrounds - this way potential recruits can learn about what it is currently like, not how it used to be like...



Traditions and heritage plays a big role still in First Nations, nothing wrong in invoking that. I also like the idea of local engagement of the communities. The bands out here in BC are changing becoming more savvy, it's a good time to recruit and also to prepare the ground for future recruiting. Many of the kids in the small communites have the outdoor skills trades like Infantry wants.


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## Jarnhamar (1 Aug 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The idea is that it's best to have a mix of Canadians in the military similar to the mix of Canadians in society so everyone can say "they're OUR Armed Forces," not "THEIR Armed Forces" - similar rationale for police forces having mixes similar to the communities they police.



That's the idea but in practice the minute something happens that someone doesn't agree with it's an us vs them mentality. The crowd will make it about race in about .03 seconds.

What was it someone on this forum said aboriginals got called by their own people, red apples or something?


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## TN2IC (1 Aug 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Next time the CF could probably save $53'000 if they log into army.ca and just ask "hey is this dumb?"
> 
> Just saying..



That makes too much sense. But then a lot whining on here ever get heard? Me thinks not. Mil points inbound for making sense.


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## The Bread Guy (1 Aug 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> That's the idea but in practice the minute something happens that someone doesn't agree with it's an us vs them mentality. The crowd will make it about race in about .03 seconds.


I was toying with using "theory" instead of "idea", but yeah, that's not how the rubber always hits the road....


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## Brad Sallows (1 Aug 2012)

>people have learned that it [diversity] is a good thing to have in any organization

That is a canard; a piece of propaganda touted by the pro-diversity industry.  Depending on the type of organization, there can be little to no inherent value in "diversity", and it may even introduce "drag" when people get deflected away from core tasks by a perceived need to cater to quiffs and quirks.  Attracting and having people suited to the organizational culture is what is good to have in an organization.

Recruiting from the widest possible base in order to fill uniforms is the proper reason to reach out with messages aimed at different audiences.


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## dapaterson (1 Aug 2012)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> >people have learned that it [diversity] is a good thing to have in any organization
> 
> That is a canard; a piece of propaganda touted by the pro-diversity industry.  Depending on the type of organization, there can be little to no inherent value in "diversity", and it may even introduce "drag" when people get deflected away from core tasks by a perceived need to cater to quiffs and quirks.  Attracting and having people suited to the organizational culture is what is good to have in an organization.



[devil's advocate]

So you're saying we should get rid of highland units, due to their quiffs and quirks?

[/devil's advocate]



> Recruiting from the widest possible base in order to fill uniforms is the proper reason to reach out with messages aimed at different audiences.



Precisely.  Shifting demographics in Canada make it worthwhile to expand the recruiting base before it becomes a crisis.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Aug 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So you're saying we should get rid of highland units, due to their quiffs and quirks hackles and dirks?



TFTFY  ;D


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## Maxadia (2 Aug 2012)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> Depending on the type of organization, there can be little to no inherent value in "diversity", and it may even introduce "drag" when people get deflected away from core tasks by a perceived need to cater to quiffs and quirks.  Attracting and having people suited to the organizational culture is what is good to have in an organization.






> Recruiting from the widest possible base in order to fill uniforms is the proper reason to reach out with messages aimed at different audiences.



Which would give you a "diverse" group of people, or "diversity" in your organization? How are you not contradicting yourself, unless you thought that I meant forced diversity, where you have to hire someone from an ethnic background just to fill a quota?


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## bridges (2 Aug 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The idea is that it's best to have a mix of Canadians in the military similar to the mix of Canadians in society so everyone can say "they're OUR Armed Forces," not "THEIR Armed Forces" - similar rationale for police forces having mixes similar to the communities they police.



I know... I was framing it as a "guess" in order to diplomatically suggest these concepts to the person who wasn't comprehending why we care about race.  But thanks  

As stated elsewhere, the P Res units in major urban centres are very diverse, racially & ethnically.   I'd bet that a certain percentage of racial-minority members in the Reg F end up coming from P Res units, rather than direct recruiting.


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## Blackadder1916 (2 Aug 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> As stated elsewhere, the P Res units in major urban centres are very diverse, racially & ethnically.   I'd bet that a *certain percentage* of racial-minority members in the Reg F end up coming from P Res units, rather than direct recruiting.



And I'd bet that the "certain percentage" of minorities from the reserves is the comparable to the "certain percentage" of white males who transfer.  Even if it wasn't and reserve service was a major route of attracting minorities to (eventual) fulltime military service, demographic focused advertising probably plays a role in that initial attraction.


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## bridges (2 Aug 2012)

No argument here.   I was just thinking that P Res units tend to be relatively reflective of the community in which they are based & from which they draw their recruits, compared to Reg F units where people are more widely dispersed.   Maybe that affects recruiting and diversity.  Just a thought.

Anyway... back to the canoe-building tactic, I wonder who it came from, and why.  Such things will continue to crop up from time to time; not particularly newsworthy except maybe as a reminder to keep going in a better direction.  Maybe members of the community being 'targeted' would be a good source of ideas for this kind of thing - before it gets to the focus-group-laughing stage.


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## Blackadder1916 (2 Aug 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> Anyway... back to the canoe-building tactic, *I wonder who it came from, and why*.  Such things will continue to crop up from time to time; not particularly newsworthy except maybe as a reminder to keep going in a better direction.  Maybe members of the community being 'targeted' would be a good source of ideas for this kind of thing - before it gets to the focus-group-laughing stage.



Who thought up this stuff?  The advertising agency that won the competition.  While I'm sure that there was close liaison with senior uniformed members as well as DND civilian employees (versed in marketing?), the CF/DND does not internally generate it's own advertising campaign.  Over the last several years that little nugget has been worth in excess of $12 million annually.  A nice chunk of change for whatever "creative" agency that gets the multi-year contract.  While this little hiccup does not portray the organization in the smartest light, a few years ago the CF's advertising campaign was lauded.

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/pub-adv/rapports-reports/2007-2008/chapitre-chapter-3-eng.html#noa


> The Government of Canada is pleased to acknowledge two national advertising campaigns that received special recognition in 2007-2008. The Department of National Defence and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were awarded prestigious marketing awards for their recruitment campaigns.
> 
> The Department of National Defence (DND) was named one of Canada's Top Marketers of 2007 by Marketing Magazine for its Canadian Forces recruitment advertising campaign. In past years, Canadian Forces recruitment campaigns showcased a more "operational" side of life in the military, through a collage of images of Canadians working at various careers within the Canadian Forces. Research undertaken in 2006-2007 revealed that Canadians wanted a more realistic, on-the-ground representation of life in the Canadian Forces. The new "Fight with the Canadian Forces" campaign clearly resonated with its 18 to 34 year-old target audience. Done in a "cinema réalité" style, it depicted realistic moments in our Canadian soldiers' lives in the line of duty, such as rescuing flood victims in Manitoba, patrolling war-torn neighbourhoods abroad and evacuating victims away from danger zones. In its first year, Canadian Forces exceeded the recruitment objectives.


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## TN2IC (2 Aug 2012)

Maybe this idea was a hint for Irving to hire aboriginals for the new fleet that is on "order".


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## daftandbarmy (4 Aug 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> No argument here.   I was just thinking that P Res units tend to be relatively reflective of the community in which they are based & from which they draw their recruits, compared to Reg F units where people are more widely dispersed.   Maybe that affects recruiting and diversity.  Just a thought.



Hardly. 

I can point out at least three units in downtown urban centres (populated mainly by 'visible minorities') that are almost fully manned by 'honkies' like me. I guess that their kids are too busy studying to become lawyers and doctors etc to waste time with the infantry. 

They just may be right!  ;D


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## Brad Sallows (5 Aug 2012)

RDJP said:
			
		

> Which would give you a "diverse" group of people, or "diversity" in your organization? How are you not contradicting yourself, unless you thought that I meant forced diversity, where you have to hire someone from an ethnic background just to fill a quota?



The remark to which I responded was "people have learned that it [diversity] is a good thing to have in any organization", and my point is that "diversity is good" is just a politically correct mantra.  The point of tailoring messages to audiences is to have the largest possible pool from which to draw, in order to be choosier about quality.  There is no contradiction.

Obviously if the point is to fill a quota, the opposite is more likely to be achieved: the average quality will be degraded.


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## Brad Sallows (5 Aug 2012)

Any likelihood the ads were produced too hastily in light of the fact "targets" are not being met?  (Read recently, can't remember where.)


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## Maxadia (5 Aug 2012)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> The remark to which I responded was "people have learned that it [diversity] is a good thing to have in any organization", and my point is that "diversity is good" is just a politically correct mantra.  The point of tailoring messages to audiences is to have the largest possible pool from which to draw, in order to be choosier about quality.  There is no contradiction.
> 
> Obviously if the point is to fill a quota, the opposite is more likely to be achieved: the average quality will be degraded.



Thanks for the clarification, and for the record, I agree.


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## daftandbarmy (5 Aug 2012)

From what I can see one of our main diversity issues is the lack of representaion by, for want of a better term, Canada's '1%'. In the UK and US there seems to be a high proportion of 'rich people's kids' in the forces. 

I found that it helps to have your country's decision makers with, literally, some skin in the game.


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## M Feetham (14 Aug 2012)

for those that wanted to know, we do indeed actively recruit aboriginal peoples into the CF, and we do focus on the long and storied history between aboriginals and the CF dating back to men like Tommy Prince and others. There is a huge section at the War museum in Ottawa that focuses on it. We have several programs across Canada that help integrate or introduce military lifestyle to aboriginal peoples such as PRTC-Pre Recruit Training Course and Op Bold Eagle to name two of them. PRTC is a three week course held in Halifax now that introduces two platoons worth of people from reserves and communities from all parts of Candada from A hous it, BC to Iqaluit to Newfoundland. They learn learn drill, marksmanship, some general military knowledge such as rank structure, a little mil history and they spend a week in the field learning ofall things field craft. I have been an instructor on two of these courses. 2005 and 2006. I have to say i learned as much as the individuals on the course. I had a blast and so did they. The Bold Eagle course is a six week course that I believe they are actually sworn in as members of the reserves and is a little more intense. I've never participated in this program so i don't know a lot of the details. 

I do know that from the PRTC, out of 60 candidates we get anywhere from 11 to 20 individuals who join the reg force and proceed to BMQ in St Jean. Many of the ones i taught stay in touch with me and are still in the forces, either reg or reserve. 

Marc


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## dangerboy (14 Aug 2012)

M Feetham said:
			
		

> The Bold Eagle course is a six week course that I believe they are actually sworn in as members of the reserves and is a little more intense. I've never participated in this program so i don't know a lot of the details.



For the Bold Eagle course, they are enrolled in the Primary Reserves and do a BMQ course along with additional culture aspect added in.  After the course they are given the option to stay in the reserves, transfer to the reg force or not stay with the military.


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## bridges (17 Aug 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I found that it helps to have your country's decision makers with, literally, some skin in the game.



 :goodpost:     I think you're exactly right there.   How to rectify that, though?  Seems like it may be a cultural difference in terms of joining your country's forces, between Canada or the US, & the UK.  

I wonder how many of our current MPs have someone with military service in their immediate family.


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## daftandbarmy (11 Sep 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> :goodpost:     I think you're exactly right there.   How to rectify that, though?  Seems like it may be a cultural difference in terms of joining your country's forces, between Canada or the US, & the UK.
> 
> I wonder how many of our current MPs have someone with military service in their immediate family.



Of course, there's a search criteria for that:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/lists/MilitaryService.aspx?Conflict=&Gender=&Language=E&Menu=HOC-Bio&Name=&Parliament=0d5d5236-70f0-4a7e-8c96-68f985128af9&Party=&Province=&Section=03d93c58-f843-49b3-9653-84275c23f3fb

This is MPs with military service (one in the US Army I see). Nothing about their kids.


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## bridges (11 Sep 2012)

Right - well that's interesting, if only part of the info.  I suspect, as you alluded to earlier, that if more MPs had family members who served/are serving, it might bring another dimension to their deliberations about military-related decisions.



			
				daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> From what I can see one of our main diversity issues is the lack of representaion by, for want of a better term, Canada's '1%'. In the UK and US there seems to be a high proportion of 'rich people's kids' in the forces.
> 
> I found that it helps to have your country's decision makers with, literally, some skin in the game.


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