# Re: Disability on course - BMQ, QL, Trades, ect...[MERGED]



## vida (13 Jun 2005)

Hey

I am new here and have been thinking about joining the army for some time now. I have had a stutter my hole life and  I am wondering if this will be a problem in the army? If I do encounter some prejudice, will something be done?  Stuttering seems to be the only disability that it still OK to make fun of. Will I be protected by army law/rule the same way racism and other prejudices are taken care of?

Thanks


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## kincanucks (13 Jun 2005)

CANADIAN FORCES POLICY ON DISCRIMINATION AND HARASSMENT

The Canadian Forces are committed to the principle of equality of all people and the dignity and worth of every human being without discrimination on any prohibited grounds including race.  Canadian Forces members must always be guided by this principle in their relationship with each other, with members of the public and with all those with whom they come in contact in Canada and overseas.  Racist attitudes are totally incompatible with the military ethos and with effective military service, and any behaviour or conduct which reflects such attitudes cannot be tolerated.  The Canadian Forces also have specific policies which prohibit discrimination, personal or sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, and abuse of authority.  This includes improper behaviour by a Canadian Forces member that is directed to another individual based on personal characteristics including race, colour, ethnicity, religion, sex, sexual orientation, physical characteristic or mannerisms.


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## vida (13 Jun 2005)

Great thanks for the info.


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## Pieman (13 Jun 2005)

I ran into this article a while ago, and is somewhat related to the topic of this thread so I thought it would be interesting to post.  It was written by a British Army applicant back in 1996, and he had a bad time because of his speech problems:

http://www.stammering.org/army.html

Interesting contrast in attitude compared to the Canadian Forces.


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## Gunner98 (13 Jun 2005)

Many superb leaders, senior officers (BGens), CWO and all ranks below them have had great careers while dealing with a stutter.  Your skills and abilities will speak for themselves.


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## Gunner (13 Jun 2005)

> senior officers (BGens),



You and I know of whom you speak!


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## kincanucks (14 Jun 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> You and I know of who you speak!



Superb?, hmmmmmmmmm.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (14 Jun 2005)

That's what I was thinking too...!

Superb?  I seem to remember potted plants and a ruler...  ;D


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## paracowboy (14 Jun 2005)

I have a speech impediment (unrelated to the fact that I always have a huge dip in my mouth - Stop it! I said DIP.) I stuttered as a child, and to this day I have to work against it. Despite that, I still rose to the giddy heights of MCpl. Oh, the power that is mine.


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## Gunner98 (14 Jun 2005)

The most recent ex-Bde Comd of 2 CMBG (Peter D) is not who I was thinking of, perhaps you were thinking of the former Inspector Gen (Jim C).  I would hardly call Peter D a "potted plant".


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## 043 (14 Jun 2005)

There is a Sapper in my unit that stutters and when he came to the troop, for some reason he thought that it was necessary to inform his superiors that he had a speech impediment.............Recce Sgt = So, can you sharpen a shovel? Can you polish your boots?? Get down below and join the rest of the troop.

Stutter, shmutter.

Chimo!


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## c4th (14 Jun 2005)

If you consider the language and dialect diversity of Canada, a stutter should be no big thing.  It was said before, actions speak louder.

You may get a bit of ribbing from your peers every now and then, but in my experience the worst offenders are also worst soldiers.

Best of luck.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (14 Jun 2005)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> The most recent ex-Bde Comd of 2 CMBG (Peter D) is not who I was thinking of, perhaps you were thinking of the former Inspector Gen (Jim C).   I would hardly call Peter D a "potted plant".



Both Gunner and I were thinking about the former Inspector Gen.  There's a famous (true) story about an "inspection" he performed at NDHQ that involved using potted plants at the entry way as cover.

I know BGen D from his time out west here (he was G3 1 CMBG once upon a time) - no comparison!


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## Gunner98 (14 Jun 2005)

The former Inspector General of Socks and Underwear is legendary, we all have our memorable stories.


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## vida (14 Jun 2005)

Thanks guys/gals, you all just helped me in my final reslove to join.


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## ThatsLife (14 Jun 2005)

You're not alone man! I thought I was the only one with a speech impediment.

I stutter sometimes on some words that start with a certain letter, but it's not really a stutter, it's more of a "pause" because I can't say that word normally, I gotta emphasize the M or N or whatever. And I also suffer from a problem where I talk some-what fast and I end up slurring my words. I've been trying to fix these problems by talking alot slower and it's helped abunch, I have probably reduced the stuttering and slurring down to 14%. Take my advice, this will help you FOR SURE. Speak alot slower, and think about the word before you say it, visualize it, write it down, and then say it VERY slowly to yourself. Do this for about 10 minutes a day and I gurantee you my friend, your problem will be NO MORE  

Also, read out loud to yourself very slowly. Just grab a book, and read out loud for about half an hour a day.

 :skull:


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## Gunnar (14 Jun 2005)

And now a word from a civvy....

The Who's "My Generation" is sung the way it is because the lead singer had a stammering problem.   He took therapy and got over it.   But he still has to sing the song that way because it's popular.   But he makes millions doing it.

I have to say I would agree with the Brits...if your stammering is sufficient to cause a serious communication problem, then you might want to get help ahead of time to eliminate it.   I've also heard that it is related to self-esteem, something the army has a tendency to rebuild in their image...this could actually be a benefit for you.   And, as others have pointed out, a number of famous generals & such all had stuttering problems at some point....which they eventually overcame.

Don't let a correctible problem like this overcome your ambition.   Stuttering can be eliminated with proper training and self-discipline...And self-discipline is what the army is all about, no?   If you can make it through the training, then a little setback like this should be a piece of cake.

Hope this helps.


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## shaboing (14 Jun 2005)

i know a mcpl that stutters really bad, but that hasn't stopped him from having a sucessful career thus far with 3 tours under his belt. he is a great guy so who cares if it takes a minute for him to say some stuff. i dont see anyone making fun of it, and if they do who cares, they are assholes and others will see that also


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## pronto (14 Jun 2005)

Gunnar said:
			
		

> And now a word from a civvy....
> 
> The Who's "My Generation" is sung the way it is because the lead singer had a stammering problem.   He took therapy and got over it.   But he still has to sing the song that way because it's popular.   But he makes millions doing it.


Like Randy Bachman - he does not have a real stutter/stammer. Randy was making fun of his brother, and Daltrey was trying to affect a speed-freak's stutter.

Sorry.


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## kincanucks (14 Jun 2005)

pronto said:
			
		

> Like Randy Bachman - he does not have a real stutter/stammer. Randy was making fun of his brother, and Daltrey was trying to affect a speed-freak's stutter.
> 
> Sorry.



pronto you rock!

All right, so we all agree that having a stutter is nothing to be ashamed of and it is against the Harassment Policy to give someone a hard time about it, so for other news..................


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## Fry (15 Jun 2005)

I wouldn't be worried about the stutter at all. I'm a newfie from a very small outport community of about 50 people. If our type of dialect is acceptable in the CF, then a stutter shouldn't even be considered as a problem. Goodluck with the recruitment process.


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## pronto (15 Jun 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> pronto you rock!


Nope - YOU rock, I merely roll.

heh heh


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## HydraliskSoldier (16 Jun 2005)

Hello I am new around here, I am thinking about joining the Canadian forces regular INF division. But I have a problem you see I have a speech impediment that where as some times I mess up my sentances, not all the time but some lol heh I have to backtrack and repeat my self in order to finsh saying some thing. When I was a child I had problems with my ears that delayed my speech progress, I am over that now and infact my ears are better then mosts. 
Once I am used to being around certan people I am okay and it is rare for me to make an error in my speech. Some people who first meet me think that I have a low IQ because of this, but those who spend some time around me realize that I am not just some dumb person that does not know whats going on. I work at a local computer shop and my co-workers are amazed on how fast I can fix computer problems that they are having troubles with.
I am not sure on if the Canadian forces would welcome me because of my problem, many employers would shaun me for this. If perhaps I would have a chance I know that I would be a great soldier doing my part for my country.
Thanks for your time.


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## boehm (16 Jun 2005)

Check out the link below it may answer some of your questions.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31660.0.html


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## HydraliskSoldier (17 Jun 2005)

Thank you guys, you have also helped me out, I have decided to call up a recruiter and have a talk with him/her about joining up.


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## Fry (18 Jun 2005)

Man, the worst that could happen is that they'd say No. And that would probably only be if you couldn't talk at all. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

A starcraft fan? Good stuff indeed.


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## HydraliskSoldier (18 Jun 2005)

Yeah before I found my corrent job I used to play Starcraft every day. I always love playing real time strategy games, as well as first person tactial shooters.


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## Fry (18 Jun 2005)

Goodstuff indeed. Prehaps we can play sometime on b.net  ;D


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## TheBoomTimes (24 Dec 2005)

Will having a stammering problem affect me in basic training and overall performance in the reserves, should I choose to join?

Iin case you don't know what stammering is, people always misconceptionalize it as "studdering" when you really aren't. Basically, when you want to say a word, it doesn't come out the instant you want it, therefore it sounds like studdering because your trying to force it out. Anyways, I was wondering if stammering is a issue, and if you know anyone else with this problem who has been successful in the army. Thanks a bunch.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Dec 2005)

There are lot's of people now, and in the past, that have the same problem AND successful military careers.


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## ZipperHead (24 Dec 2005)

I know of more than a few people with speech impediments, and the general rule of thumb is that if you are a good troop, no one fooks with you. However, if you are a shitpump, behind your back you will get it. Hang on, that's the general rule of thumb for everybody in the military  ;D

I wouldn't sweat it. I know plenty of people who can speak "normally" but constantly jam their foot in the mouth with the out-there things that they say, which is infinitely worse than something that you really have little control over, such as a speech impediment. I would say that a few unenlightened people (such as those that point and laugh at handicapped people) might give you grief, but they are generally so thick that you can quickly cut them down to size (even if it takes a few seconds longer). A quick mind is better than a quick mouth, and when you join, you want to minimize on how much you speak anyways. A good instructor will take into account if you have difficulty with your speech when it takes you longer to answer a question, much in the same way if you ask someone (a Francophone, for example) something in English, and the time it takes them to translate, formulate a response, translate that into English, and then respond in English. No worries.

Al


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## dont.get.it.48 (28 Feb 2006)

hey, 
how much does it hurt you during the recruiting proses if you have some learning disabilities?

thank you for all your help
Nick


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## Aislinn (28 Feb 2006)

You won't know until you try. 
This is a difficult question because learning disabilities can encompass so much. Truth is, no one can easily answer your question, especially not without more facts. The best thing to do might be to call the recruiting office and ask them. And just so you know, many people with learning disabilities make it into the CF. 

Good luck.


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## geo (28 Feb 2006)

Yeah.... that nice Sgt & WO will help you understand what you can't figure out for yourself 

Seriously though.... what kind of dissability is it?
Our system is excellent to teach groups of 30 people make it thru their courses.
Don't expect to get continuous and ongoing one on one if that's what the dissability happens to be - cause, your always helpful Sgt will not always be there to explain things to you.

Cheers!


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## kincanucks (28 Feb 2006)

You will be processed as any other applicant would be and you will not be given any special consideration during the process because of your learning disability.


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## geo (28 Feb 2006)

(amen!)


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## Jaxson (28 Feb 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> You will be processed as any other applicant would be and you will not be given any special consideration during the process because of your learning disability.



But i wanted to ride the Stubby bus.


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## Sh0rtbUs (28 Feb 2006)

Jaxson said:
			
		

> But i wanted to ride the Stubby bus.



There will be no riding of any kind..


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## Jaxson (1 Mar 2006)

Sh0rtbUs said:
			
		

> There will be no riding of any kind..



Lol, man that comment so didnt work out, i had forgotten all about you.


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## Sh0rtbUs (1 Mar 2006)

Jaxson said:
			
		

> Lol, man that comment so didnt work out, i had forgotten all about you.


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## dont.get.it.48 (1 Mar 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Seriously though.... what kind of disability is it?



I have A.D.H.D. (attention deficit hyperactive disorder) and Non-verbal Learning disorder (something about i learn by hearing best)


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## muffin (1 Mar 2006)

dont.get.it.48 said:
			
		

> I have A.D.H.D. (attention deficit hyperactive disorder) and Non-verbal Learning disorder (something about i learn by hearing best)



Do you take medication for the ADHD?

muffin


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## GINge! (1 Mar 2006)

dont.get.it.48 said:
			
		

> I have A.D.H.D. (attention deficit hyperactive disorder) and Non-verbal Learning disorder (something about i learn by hearing best)



I don't think you would be alone in the CF with Adult ADHD. You should know that the stresses of CF life can *sometimes* aggravate the symptoms of ADHD and result in other comorbidities. 

Anywhere from 2-4% of the adult population has ADHD, I would estimate that due to certain characteristics of ADHD, that that fraction is slightly higher in the CF (ie attraction to risk). 

There are lots of successful adults who have been diagnosed with ADHD. If you can manage your condition then you should try applying. Good luck!


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## The Gues-|- (1 Mar 2006)

dont.get.it.48 said:
			
		

> hey,
> how much does it hurt you during the recruiting proses if you have some learning disabilities?
> 
> thank you for all your help
> Nick



The best thing you can do is talk to the recruiters themselves.  I don't know if you were in fact diagnosed with NLD but I do know that NLD psychological profile is often confused with ADHD, as hyperactivity is seen in either disorder.  Your doctor should be able to provide them with your personal information, providing you have one. 

All the best!


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## double0three (1 Mar 2006)

I believe I read somewhere that you cannot be on Ritalin and join the forces. So if you currently take that, you will have to wait until a point where you well-being does not depend on it, and you can go without.


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## dont.get.it.48 (2 Mar 2006)

muffin said:
			
		

> Do you take medication for the ADHD?
> 
> muffin



I take aderal every morning for my A.D.H.D.

my N.L.D. i heard was some disorder were doctor's and everything thought if you had it u were mentally disabled and put you in a mentally disabled program at school. but a couple of years ago they found out it was just a learning disorder like any other normal one (ex. A.D.D.)


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## dont.get.it.48 (2 Mar 2006)

Thank you for all you help so far though
it's much appreciated


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## q_1966 (2 Mar 2006)

double0three said:
			
		

> I believe I read somewhere that you cannot be on Ritalin and join the forces. So if you currently take that, you will have to wait until a point where you well-being does not depend on it, and you can go without.



Did you read that on the...I dont know how to put it... "The what drugs have you done in your entire life Quiz" during the recruiting process, because thats for non-prescription medication, the person who gave the quiz told me, if its been prescribed then its a question for the person doing your medical.

however, if you are prescribed it and are not illegally taking it, then I would suggest to ask the person doing your medical.


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## kincanucks (2 Mar 2006)

Papke said:
			
		

> Did you read that on the...I dont know how to put it... "The what drugs have you done in your entire life Quiz" during the recruiting process, because thats for non-prescription medication, the person who gave the quiz told me, if its been prescribed then its a question for the person doing your medical.
> 
> however, if you are prescribed it and are not illegally taking it, then I would suggest to ask the person doing your medical.



And your point is?


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## q_1966 (2 Mar 2006)

Just adding what might not have been said


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## kr1kit (11 Oct 2007)

I wanted your guys opinion on a subject which is worrying me. I'm going out for reg force Infantry, i've passed my cfat, interview, and medical exam. My recruiter told me that i'd get my BMQ date by last friday at the latest, but that never came. So i called him and asked him whats up, he says that Ottawa is still looking at my medical information and he doesn't know how long it will take. My worry is this, i have a speech impediment(stutter), my recruiter who did my interview and the doctor who did my medical exam said that this shouldn't be a problem for me wanting Infantry as my trade(because it's not that bad, and i can keep it under control). But the fact that they're still considering my medical is kind of scaring me, there is a chance i could be denied because of my speech. 

So my question is, if i was asked to pick another trade, what would be one where i'd have to do less talking, where communication wouldn't be a huge deal.
My first 3 choices were Infantry, armored, and combat engineer. 

I'll be asking my recruiter this same question, but he's been very busy lately and i thought i'd get your opinion on it aswell.


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## aesop081 (11 Oct 2007)

i spent alot of my time as a combat engineer on radios so its no different than armour or infantry


...but like CSA said.....


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## Snaketnk (11 Oct 2007)

I actually met a really successful Comm Res Officer a few months back, he had a really, really strong stutter. I don't think it will be an issue.


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## garb811 (11 Oct 2007)

I've known MPs who stuttered...

...like CSA said...


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## Blackadder1916 (11 Oct 2007)

Try looking at this thread Stuttering / Speech Impediments  

There have been a lot of very successful soldiers (in many different trades) who have had speech impediments.  Trying to find a trade where communication isn't a big deal is like trying to find a nun who doesn't proclaim her chastity.


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## TangoTwoBravo (11 Oct 2007)

kr1kit said:
			
		

> I wanted your guys opinion on a subject which is worrying me. I'm going out for reg force Infantry, i've passed my cfat, interview, and medical exam. My recruiter told me that i'd get my BMQ date by last friday at the latest, but that never came.
> 
> So my question is, if i was asked to pick another trade, what would be one where i'd have to do less talking, where communication wouldn't be a huge deal.
> My first 3 choices were Infantry, armored, and combat engineer.
> ...



I will first give you three caveats about my advice.  I am not infantry, I am not a recruiter and I am not a doctor.  I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  All that being said, I've been in the Army for some time and have worked with just about every trade.  I like your choices by the way.  The Army is about people and every rank and trade has personal interactions that use speech.

I have a stammer.  Despite that I give briefings, presentations, talk on the radio, O Gps, interviews, teach lessons and so forth and somehow I get by.  I know many others in the same boat.    Bottom line, try not to sweat it.  You speech is what it is.  I believe that people will care more about *what* you say rather than whether you stutter or stammer.  

Your file may be held up for any number of medical reasons.  You want to find out soonest, no doubt, but try not to worry right now about things that you cannot control.  I know its frustrating but wait and see what happens while still remaining engaged in the process.  

Cheers

2B


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## kr1kit (11 Oct 2007)

ahh thanks everyone for your help, i appreciate it, you've eased my worrying for now.

I'll post back if i find out anymore info on why it's being held back.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (11 Oct 2007)

when I was at Gagetown the G1 (a LCOL Infantry) had a very pronounced stutter when he spoke one on one but not so much when he spoke in public. He was a great guy and had a very successful career. I believe he retired since then with at least 30 years service.


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## davidrichler (10 Jun 2009)

Can you join the CF if you have a physical disbility? For example, if you lost a leg?


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## Nfld Sapper (10 Jun 2009)

I am gonna go out on a limb and say no as you don't meet the Universality of Service.


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## davidrichler (10 Jun 2009)

Don't people with disabilities have rights under the constition? And how does having a disability automatically make you fail to meet the Universality of Service? If a person can perform a task effiecently why would they be excluded automatically based of a flawed logical assumption? If the government cannot follow it's own constitution and give all of it's citizens equal rights what it the point of our human rights here in Canada?


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## Michael OLeary (10 Jun 2009)

davidrichler said:
			
		

> Don't people with disabilities have rights under the constition? And how does having a disability automatically make you fail to meet the Universality of Service? If a person can perform a task effiecently why would they be excluded automatically based of a flawed logical assumption? If the government cannot follow it's own constitution and give all of it's citizens equal rights what it the point of our human rights here in Canada?



Go to the Recruiting Centre.  Submit your application.  The only way you'll get a definitive answer is through the Recruiting medical system.

Before you do, search on these forums about the time it takes to get decisions from the Recruiting Group medical system. It can be a slow process and you should be fully aware of that before you begin.


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## Nfld Sapper (10 Jun 2009)

davidrichler said:
			
		

> Don't people with disabilities have rights under the constition? And how does having a disability automatically make you fail to meet the Universality of Service? If a person can perform a task effiecently why would they be excluded automatically based of a flawed logical assumption? If the government cannot follow it's own constitution and give all of it's citizens equal rights what it the point of our human rights here in Canada?



JUST FYI.

DAOD 5023-0, Universality of Service
Identification
Date of Issue: 2006-05-19

Effective Date: 2006-05-08

Application: This is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces ("CF members").

Approval Authority: This DAOD is issued under the authority of the Chief of Military Personnel (CMP).

Enquiries: Director Military Personnel Policy (DMP Pol)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Policy Direction
Context
The mission of the DND and the CF is to defend Canada, its interests and its values, while contributing to international peace and security.

To execute this mission the CF must be given broad authority and latitude in utilizing CF members and their skills. The statutory basis for this authority is section 33 of the National Defence Act. The fundamental importance of this authority to the functioning and effectiveness of the CF is recognized in subsection 15(9) of the Canadian Human Rights Act which provides that the duty to accommodate under subsection 15(2) of that Act is subject to the principle of universality of service. Under this principle, CF members must at all times and under any circumstances perform any functions that they may be required to perform.

Effective performance of the broad range of defence and security tasks assigned to the CF requires that CF members be capable of performing a similarly broad range of general military, common defence and security duties, in addition to the more particular duties of their military occupation or occupational specification. This open-ended nature of military service is one of the features that distinguish it from the civilian notion of employment governed by a contract, which obliges employees to perform only those duties specified in their job description or contract.

Principle of Universality of Service
The principle of universality of service or "soldier first" principle holds that CF members are liable to perform general military duties and common defence and security duties, not just the duties of their military occupation or occupational specification. This may include, but is not limited to, the requirement to be physically fit, employable and deployable for general operational duties.

Policy Statement
The CF is committed to the application of the principle of universality of service in the CF.

Authority
CMP has the authority to develop and approve policy concerning universality of service.

References
Source References
■Canadian Human Rights Act, subsection 15(9)
■National Defence Act, section 33
Related References
■DAOD 5023-1, Minimum Operational Standards Related to Universality of Service
■DAOD 5023-2, Physical Fitness Program

DAOD 5023-1, Minimum Operational Standards Related to Universality of Service
Identification
Date of Issue: 2006-05-19

Effective Date: 2006-05-08

Application: This is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces ("CF members").

Supersession: Changes to Universality of Service Policy Application, 5000-1 (ADM(HR-Mil)) 6 November 2000

Approval Authority: This DAOD is issued under the authority of the Director General Military Personnel(DGMP).

Enquiries: Director Military Personnel Policy (DMP Pol)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operating Principles
Application
The application of the minimum operational standards related to universality of service is set out in the following table:

A CF member of the … is required … 
Regular Force (Reg F)
 to meet the minimum operational standards.

Primary Reserve (P Res)

Canadian Rangers
 to meet the minimum operational standards if attached, seconded or transferred on consent to the Reg F or P Res.

Cadet Instructors Cadre (CIC)

Supplementary Reserve (Supp Res)

Note - In addition to any other standard for enrolment, applicants to the Reg F and P Res are required to meet, or be capable of meeting, the minimum operational standards.


Context
The overriding purpose of the Reg F and the P Res is to conduct and support military operations. The Supp Res provides an augmentation capability for the Reg F and P Res as well as for other sub-components. The Canadian Rangers provide a military presence in sparsely settled, northern, coastal and isolated areas of Canada. The CICs primary duty is the supervision, administration and training of cadets.

All CF members who serve in or with the Reg F and P Res are expected to be able to contribute to, and be ready for, operational duty in the service of the nation when required. The inability of CF members to do so reduces the capability and flexibility of the CF to mount and sustain operations.

Minimum Operational Standards
The following table sets out the minimum operational standards related to the principle of universality of service. These standards reflect the minimum standards and may be increased for operational, environmental or military occupational requirements as detailed in other DAODs, policies and operational orders.

Minimum Operational Standard A CF member is required to … which … 
Be physically fit
 meet the common fitness requirements of general military service as indicated by the attainment of the CF minimum physical fitness standards as set out in the Canadian Forces EXPRES Operations Manual,
 ■are based upon the performance of the following five common tasks for CF members: 
•high-low crawl (See Note);
•sea evacuation (See Note);
•entrenchment dig;
•casualty evacuation (See Note); and
•sand bag carry (See Note).

Be employable
 be able to perform the skill elements of common operational core tasks, as indicated by satisfactory routine unit and pre-deployment training evaluation and be free of medical employment limitations that would preclude performance of core tasks,
 ■requires a CF member to perform the following common operational core tasks: 
•fire and maintain a personal weapon;
•conduct individual nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) drills;
•perform simple NBC monitoring;
•provide initial fire fighting response to fire fighting emergencies;
•administer first aid;
•perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation;
•perform drill (See Note);
•communicate using a radio;
•prepare written military correspondence;
•secure and lock up work areas; and
•enforce hygiene and sanitation standards.

Be deployable
 not have a medical or other employment limitation that would preclude deployment,
 ■requires a CF member to: 
•perform duties in the full variety of geographical locations and climatic conditions in any physical environment;
•deploy on short notice;
•sustain irregular or prolonged working hours;
•sustain irregular or limited meals, and in some cases missing meals altogether;
•travel as a passenger in any mode of transportation;
•perform duties under physical and mental stress;
•perform duties with minimal or no medical support; and
•perform effectively without critical medication.

Note - Specific standards are detailed in Annex D, Appendix 1 of A-MD-154-000/FP-000, Medical Standards for the Canadian Forces.


Breach of Minimum Operational Standards
If it is determined after an administrative review (AR) by the appropriate authority that a member of the Reg F or P Res is permanently unable to meet one or more of the minimum operational standards, the CF member shall be:

■released from the Reg F or P Res, or a recommendation made for release, as applicable; or
■retained subject to employment limitations on a temporary, transitional basis.
Temporary Employment Limitation
A temporary employment limitation for a CF member which results in the inability of the CF member to meet the minimum operational standards is not considered a breach of those standards.

Restriction on Duty
A restriction on duty imposed on a CF member under DAOD 5003-1, Restrictions on Duty, is not a breach of the minimum operational standards.

Top of Page

Applicability of Minimum Operational Standards to Groups
CF Members under the Age of 18
Section 34 of the National Defence Act (NDA) prohibits the deployment of a CF member under the age of 18 to a theatre of hostilities. This restriction was imposed to discharge Canada's international treaty obligations and is not considered a breach of the minimum operational standards.

Chaplains
QR&O 33.03(2) provides that chaplains shall not be required to perform any duty other than those pertaining to their calling. Accordingly, chaplains are exempt from the requirement to perform general military duties and common defence and security tasks.

Chaplains are still required to be medically and physically fit and deployable.

Canadian Rangers, CIC and Supp Res
CF members of the Canadian Rangers, CIC and Supp Res are not required to meet the minimum operational standards unless attached, seconded or transferred on consent to the Reg F or P Res.

CF members of the Canadian Rangers and the CIC are liable for general service under section 33 of the NDA. They could be called out in an emergency or be placed on active service in Canada, and are required to perform general military duties in these circumstances.

Applicability of Minimum Operational Standards to Individuals
Retention Subject to Employment Limitations
If the recommendation of an AR is the release of a CF member because the CF member is in breach of the minimum operational standards, the CF member may be retained subject to employment limitations only on a temporary, transitional basis if there is:

■a critical shortage in the CF member's military occupation; or
■a requirement for a specific skill set.
A CF member who is not military-occupation qualified and is in breach of the minimum operational standards is not to be retained.

Retention Subject to Employment Limitations Process
The process to determine the limits for the retention of a CF member subject to employment limitations is set out in the following table:

For the Reg F … For the P Res … 
■through the annual military occupation review (AMOR) process as detailed in CF Mil Pers Instr 01/08, Annual Military Occupation Review (AMOR); and
■in consultation with managing authorities.
 ■by limits set by Chief of Maritime Staff (CMS), Chief of the Air Staff (CAS), Chief of the Land Staff (CLS), Chief of Military Personnel (CMP), Assistant Deputy Minister (Information Management) ADM(IM), and Judge Advocate General (JAG), or designated staff, as applicable, based on a case-by-case review of individual unit requirements.

Note - AR approving authorities shall take these limits into account when determining whether or not to retain a CF member subject to employment limitations.


Period of Retention Subject to Employment Limitations
The period of retention of a CF member who is subject to employment limitations is set out in the following table:

For the Reg F … For the P Res … 
the earliest of:

■the period of the shortage or requirement described in the Retention Subject to Employment Limitations block;
■the end of the current term of service; or
■a period of three years.
 the earlier of:

■the period of the shortage or requirement described in the Retention Subject to Employment Limitations block; or
■a period of three years.


The period of retention during which a CF member is subject to employment limitations only applies while the CF member is serving in his or her current component or sub-component and may not be transferred to another component or sub-component.

Career Implications
Any period of retention subject to employment limitations is a transitional period of service leading to release from the Reg F or P Res. During this period the CF member is expected to perform all military duties except those related to the CF member's employment limitations. During the period of retention, a CF member:

■remains liable for posting for service requirements only;
■is not eligible for career courses (see DAOD 5031-8, Canadian Forces Professional Development); and
■is only eligible for promotion if he or she meets the applicable promotion criteria.
Upon completion of a period of retention subject to employment limitations, a CF member is only eligible to be considered for a component or sub-component transfer to the Supp Res, Canadian Rangers or CIC.

Responsibilities
Responsibility Table
The following table identifies the responsibilities associated with the minimum operational standards related to the universality of service:

The … is or are responsible for … 
CMP (through the AMOR process)
 ■setting limits for the retention of CF members with employment limitations in order to maximize trained effective strength for each military occupation and rank for the Reg F; and
■communicating limits on the retention of CF members with employment limitations to the AR approving authorities.

CMS, CAS, CLS, CMP, ADM(IM) and JAG, or designated staff
 ■setting limits for the retention of CF members with employment limitations so as to maximize trained effective strength for the P Res;
■communicating limits on the retention of CF members with employment limitations to the AR approving authorities;
■approving postings for a P Res member retained with employment limitations; and
■maintaining a record of P Res members who have been retained with employment limitations.

Director General Recruiting and Military Careers (DGRMC)
 ■maintaining a record of Reg F members who have been retained with employment limitations.

Director Military Careers or Director Senior Appointments, as appropriate
 ■approving postings for a Reg F member retained with employment limitations.

commanding officer, area headquarters or equivalent or DGRMC as applicable
 ■initiating an AR if a CF member is permanently unable to meet any of the minimum operational standards.

CF Recruiting Group Headquarters
 ■developing recruiting procedures for the Reg F and
P Res to ensure that all applicants are capable of meeting the minimum operational standards.


References
Source Reference
■DAOD 5023-0, Universality of Service
Related References
■Canadian Human Rights Act
■National Defence Act, section 34
■QR&O 33.03, Religious Ministrations
■DAOD 5002-3, Component and Sub-Component Transfer
■DAOD 5003-1, Restrictions on Duty
■DAOD 5019-2, Administrative Review
■DAOD 5023-2, Physical Fitness Program
■DAOD 5031-8, Canadian Forces Professional Development
■CFAO 11-6, Commissioning And Promotion Policy - Officers - Regular Force
■CFAO 49-4, Career Policy Non-Commissioned Members Regular Force
■CFAO 49-5, Career Policy - Non-Commissioned Member - Primary Reserve
■CFAO 49-12, Promotion Policy - Officers - Primary Reserve
■A-MD-154-000/FP-000, Medical Standards for the Canadian Forces
■ADM(HR-Mil) Instruction 11/04, Canadian Forces Medical Standards
■CF Mil Pers Instr 01/08, Annual Military Occupation Review (AMOR)
■CANFORGEN 081/05, Clarification on the use of Cadet Instructor Cadre (CIC) Officers outside the Canadian Cadet Movement
■CANFORGEN 087/06, New DAODs on Universality of Service, Minimum Operational Standards Related to Universality of Service, and CF Physical Fitness Program
■Canadian Forces EXPRES Operations Manual


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## Takeniteasy (10 Jun 2009)

I have to agree with the Micheal. Go to the recruiter and ask. When we join the Canadian Military we give up some rights and privileges in order to effect some of the policies that are in place for the protection of Canada. 
There are many ways to contribute and most if not all other government positions hire those who have the right skill sets regardless of their circumstances.

DND has had and has continued to develop policies regarding those who become seriously injured or ill while serving and it is their commitment to help them either stay in uniform (each case is separate and reviewed as such) or transfer out and gain employment with other government agencies or in the private sector.


----------



## PMedMoe (10 Jun 2009)

davidrichler said:
			
		

> Don't people with disabilities have rights under the constition? And how does having a disability automatically make you fail to meet the Universality of Service? If a person can perform a task effiecently why would they be excluded automatically based of a flawed logical assumption? If the government cannot follow it's own constitution and give all of it's citizens equal rights what it the point of our human rights here in Canada?



So a blind person should be allowed to be a bus driver?  Me thinks you're just here to stir things up.

But, as Mr. O'Leary said, go to your closest CFRC and apply.


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## ModlrMike (10 Jun 2009)

davidrichler said:
			
		

> Don't people with disabilities have rights under the constition? And how does having a disability automatically make you fail to meet the Universality of Service? If a person can perform a task effiecently why would they be excluded automatically based of a flawed logical assumption? If the government cannot follow it's own constitution and give all of it's citizens equal rights what it the point of our human rights here in Canada?



Yes, they do. Everybody has the right to apply, but there is no absolute right to be accepted... even for the able bodied. As said by another Michael, go to the Recruiting Centre and apply. The HRC has ruled several times that the BFORS (Bone-Fide Operational Requirements) are a valid measure of one's employability within the CF, and being in violation of them constitutes reasonable grounds for dismissal or denial of enrolment.


----------



## Supra (11 Jun 2009)

While I do understand that everyone should be given a fair chance I do think that everyone should be able to meet the physical fitness standards as well as to be able to pass basic. 

Can a person with no leg run? yes I've seen it... with the help of prosthetics thus putting them at a disadvantage by having to rely on making sure you always have your deployable leg with you.
So let's say we start allowing soldiers with one leg who can run into the forces.

What about the guy with one arm? Now he wants to have a fair shot because the guy with one leg made it. So combat time comes even though he's a steward or some other non combatant and he can't fire his rifle because he left his custom designed one armed c7 somewhere in the heat of battle and the closest thing he has near him is the fallen guy with one leg's rifle which he can't fire.

And as the way things are this country will keep changing the standards to include everyone who are not fit for service, and we'll find away for the blind and deaf to be the captain of a ship because of the new gps autopilot system we've designed, but then everyone will need to communicate with this blind and deaf captain so we design a new course for St. Jean recruits to learn sign language and how to spell into someones hand as well as braille.

I could go on but......

The way I see it, we have enrollment/physical standards that people must meet and not the other way around. After all this is the military; a fighting force.  It would put that one person as well as his mates at a disadvantage if we are not all on the same level physically in a combat environment.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Jun 2009)

He's been told what he needs to do.
Locked


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## sky777 (7 Jan 2010)

Shall I confess about my stuttering at medical exam ? 
Usually I don't stutter.But time to time it happens.Not often.


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## Fusaki (7 Jan 2010)

Dude, you worry too much. If it's too minor to notice, don't even bring it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1R8VUASlvA

Awhile back I was looking for expertise in the area, and came across the Youtube link above.  I emailed Jody Fuller and asked him if his stutter had ever caused him problems in his line of work.  He explained to me that a stutter is just some crossed wires in the brain, and it only affects him in normal conversation.  Singing a song, doing impressions of people, calling military drill, and talking on the radio were normally unaffected by the stutter because - according to him - that kind of speech is driven by a different part of the brain.  He said that in normal conversation, he was usually able to mash out the words or take a breath a speak a little more softly to get his point across.  One way or another, he was able to make do.

Lt. Jody Fuller is a good man, and his advice to me was a great help.


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## xo31@711ret (8 Jan 2010)

Posted by: IN HOC SIGNOwhen I was at Gagetown the G1 (a LCOL Infantry) had a very pronounced stutter when he spoke one on one but not so much when he spoke in public. He was a great guy and had a very successful career. I believe he retired since then with at least 30 years service.

I remember LCOL G; my wife use to work for him as his CC. He was a a great guy who would go out of his way to listen to all the troops. He had a 'bad' stammer when addressing the troops, but the troops told me that when he was on the radio, giving orders, etc his stammer disappeared. 
I had a bad, pronounced stammer as a child which has (not completely) resolved; it's still there from time to time once in a blue moon but never as bad as when I was younger. (There's a few on this board who can attest to that LOL!)
Funny incident when I first got posted to 2RCR UMS in 90. My supervisor at the time said there was a seminar at CFH Halifax for those with speech impediments & he wanted to know if he could put my name in for it. I asked him  'why, does it bother you Sarge?' Well, he stammered & didn't know what to say. I just laughed & the whole UMS (including the Sgt) had a good laugh. I never had a problem in 27 years in uniform except for the very rare drunken a-hole at the very beginning of my career but had fellow brothers & sisters in uniform who told such drunken a-holes to grow up.


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## Tape (19 Feb 2012)

Hi, I'm new too this site so forgive me if I did anything wrong. I'm interested in being a fighter jet pilot, but I should tell you a bit about myself. I'm currently in grade 11 with a learning disability that set my math skills back and it's too late to take summer school because I would have to take a fifth year, which the university does not look at I think. Also, it took me awhile just to improve on my English cause the LD has affected my language skill, but it's at a grade 11 level  , but I don't know if this will affect my chances of being a pilot. I'm also taking most courses that is university leveled (English, Chemistry, Biology, History, and Band, but math is college leveled course, in addition, I'm getting a 70% average, it would raise, if I had motivation because all the careers are crossed out because of math... 

Another question, It says on the site (www.forces.ca) "The Canadian Forces is now hiring university students and graduates from all degree programs for Pilot Training. You don’t need any flying experience or training to apply:" Does that mean I can take criminal justice in university, and apply in the air force once I graduate with a bachelor? What should I do? I really want to become a pilot, that's why I went here to look for advice and Yahoo Answers seemed to be help to me.


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## Tape (19 Feb 2012)

"that's why I went here to look for advice and Yahoo Answers seemed to be help to me." Should be "that's why I went here to look for advice and Yahoo Answers did not seem to help me" - A little mistake. Sorry if there are a few grammar mistakes.


----------



## dimsum (19 Feb 2012)

Do a search on the site.  Tons of threads on Pilot, Fighters, recruiting....even recruiting for Fighter Pilots.  

Enjoy.


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## Strike (19 Feb 2012)

Tape said:
			
		

> . I'm also taking most courses that is university leveled (English, Chemistry, Biology, History, and Band, but math is college leveled course, in addition, I'm getting a 70% average, *it would raise, if I had motivation because all the careers are crossed out because of math... *



The learning disability aside, if you need a reason to be motivated to do well in school then you are barking up the wrong tree.  You should already be trying to do better, not waiting for someone to say there's a chance that you could be a fighter pilot.


----------



## Tape (19 Feb 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> The learning disability aside, if you need a reason to be motivated to do well in school then you are barking up the wrong tree.  You should already be trying to do better, not waiting for someone to say there's a chance that you could be a fighter pilot.



Yeah, I know, but the fact that the careers I'm interested in are crossed out for me had made me lose hope of finding a good career that is one of the reason why I'm not doing too well in school... Because I'm really worried about my future of what I want to be.


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## Zombie (19 Feb 2012)

Tape said:
			
		

> Yeah, I know, but the fact that the careers I'm interested in are crossed out for me had made me lose hope of finding a good career that is one of the reason why I'm not doing too well in school... Because I'm really worried about my future of what I want to be.



How about knowing that doing well will afford you a better choice in regards to quality and quantity of jobs when you're done? Using that backwards mentality is a great way to make sure you narrow down your choices for the future.


----------



## Tape (19 Feb 2012)

Zombie said:
			
		

> How about knowing that doing well will afford you a better choice in regards to quality and quantity of jobs when you're done? Using that backwards mentality is a great way to make sure you narrow down your choices for the future.



Yeah, I think I'll be trying harder in school from this day on, because I feel the motivation inside me  right now, and I think I can actually do it if I put effort into school. I've always wanted to be a pilot, and every time I think about it, just gives me an urge to do better in school. 

Is there anyone that could answer my second question? I'm going to talk to a recruiter tomorrow and see if I can get my questions answer if no one answer my question today. I really need to know before I change my courses when school starts, so I can prepare for my post-secondary.


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## dimsum (19 Feb 2012)

Tape said:
			
		

> Is there anyone that could answer my second question? *I'm going to talk to a recruiter tomorrow and see if I can get my questions answer if no one answer my question today.* I really need to know before I change my courses when school starts, so I can prepare for my post-secondary.



Regardless of whether or not anyone answers your question today, talk to a recruiter.  This isn't an official website (even though there are many members with a ton of experience) so don't go by what army.ca says 100%.  

To answer your question, if you decided not to search through the pages of info about Pilot:  Yes, any degree program will do.


----------



## AGD (19 Feb 2012)

Tape said:
			
		

> Is there anyone that could answer my second question? I'm going to talk to a recruiter tomorrow and see if I can get my questions answer if no one answer my question today. I really need to know before I change my courses when school starts, so I can prepare for my post-secondary.



Best if you ask the recruiting office that question anyway. Better to hear it from somebody who works in an official capacity than from some stranger on an internet forum. Supposedly, degrees in science and engineering are preferable, but there's a list of what is and what is not acceptable at the recruiting office.


----------



## Bart905 (19 Feb 2012)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I would guess that Pilots would need above average mathematics due to the fact you have to be able to calculate the altitude/landing and so on if auto pilot or any navigation systems were to break down


----------



## Zombie (19 Feb 2012)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> To answer your question, if you decided not to search through the pages of info about Pilot:  Yes, any degree program will do.



He wouldn't have even had to go through those pages. He answered his question when he quoted from the Forces site: "now hiring university students and graduates from all degree programs". Not sure how that left a question as to which degrees may be accepted.


----------



## dimsum (19 Feb 2012)

Zombie said:
			
		

> He wouldn't have even had to go through those pages. He answered his question when he quoted from the Forces site: "now hiring university students and graduates from all degree programs". Not sure how that left a question as to which degrees may be accepted.



I was just re-stating the plethora of information contained within these "pages".   ^-^


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## SentryMAn (20 Feb 2012)

From my understanding with the trade of pilot, being adequate in the application process may not cut it, being above average or excelling in would be a better terminology strive for.

Start TODAY, do not wait until Monday, or After midterms, or after XXXX time to improve yourself.

If Math is a weakness, work harder in it, get tutors, help, etc.

If you need inspiration just do a search online for inspirational stories, you'll find a slew of people that were told "they can't" do something or have a certain career and that just pushed them even harder to get that career.


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## Loachman (20 Feb 2012)

Bart905 said:
			
		

> Correct me if I'm wrong but I would guess that Pilots would need above average mathematics due to the fact you have to be able to calculate the altitude/landing and so on if auto pilot or any navigation systems were to break down



Okay, you're wrong. In practical terms (enrollment prerequisites aside), there is nothing required beyond learning a few simple formulae and being able to make these calculations in one's head. It's so simple - even a pilot can do it.


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## Zoomie (20 Feb 2012)

Loachman said:
			
		

> It's so simple - even a pilot can do it.


Amen to that - math was/is my weakest subject.  As long as I can add/subtract, I am golden.


----------



## SentryMAn (20 Feb 2012)

I guess I was meaning more on the Admission requirements rather then what the pilot trade needs.
I assume that the higher number of applicants = higher than minimum standards for enrollment?

As in Billy and Johny are both adequate applicants for pilot, Billy exceeds the minimum requirements for enrollment where as Johny meets the minimum standards.  Billy will be chosen over Johny no matter how long Johny is in the system for?

I applied for pilot as one choice, have exceptional math skills and rated high on the CFAT(suitable for anything as per the recruiter), but I require corrective lenses and currently have -2.75 in each eye.  Genetics does me in for the choice as I don't believe the CF takes candidates for Pilot with corrective laser surgery?


----------



## Zombie (20 Feb 2012)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> I guess I was meaning more on the Admission requirements rather then what the pilot trade needs.
> I assume that the higher number of applicants = higher than minimum standards for enrollment?
> 
> As in Billy and Johny are both adequate applicants for pilot, Billy exceeds the minimum requirements for enrollment where as Johny meets the minimum standards.  Billy will be chosen over Johny no matter how long Johny is in the system for?



I would hope this is the case for anything that has an application process.


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## SentryMAn (20 Feb 2012)

Zombie said:
			
		

> I would hope this is the case for anything that has an application process.



but would Johny ever be accepted?


----------



## Melbatoast (20 Feb 2012)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> Genetics does me in for the choice as I don't believe the CF takes candidates for Pilot with corrective laser surgery?



Wrong.

I and 3 others on my aircrew selection had it, and I'm sure more than a few others have made it all the way through the training system by now.  The policy changed in 2008.


----------



## Zombie (20 Feb 2012)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> but would Johny ever be accepted?



I am neither a pilot nor a recruiter, but why would they take someone with lesser credentials? Assuming of course, all else is equal.


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## SentryMAn (20 Feb 2012)

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> Wrong.
> 
> I and 3 others on my aircrew selection had it, and I'm sure more than a few others have made it all the way through the training system by now.  The policy changed in 2008.



Understandable, it may have been prior to the change that I was taking to a recruiter about pilot.  I remember there being issues with night blindness with the original procedure for corrective lens surgery(rumors, never confirmed so don't slice and dice me on this).

Looks like I'll be saving my pennies from now on to get the surgery, I've always wanted to fly Helicopters.


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## HeavyHooker (20 Feb 2012)

Tape, I am sure you would make a fine pilot.  It sure sounds like you are over-qualified now.  But the big question is "Can you play beach volleyball with dudes?"   8)

I would think Flight Engineer may be a bit out of your league however...   >


----------



## Melbatoast (20 Feb 2012)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> (rumors, never confirmed so don't slice and dice me on this).



But it would be so much fun.  Suffice to say it's much more complicated than that - "night blindness" is easy to screen out.


----------



## SentryMAn (20 Feb 2012)

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> But it would be so much fun.  Suffice to say it's much more complicated than that - "night blindness" is easy to screen out.



I've been sliced and diced enough in the last few days at work, "Yearly Performance reviews" are a bitch.


----------



## Loachman (20 Feb 2012)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> I've always wanted to fly Helicopters.



So have I, for the last two years.


----------



## Tape (20 Feb 2012)

HeavyHooker said:
			
		

> Tape, I am sure you would make a fine pilot.  It sure sounds like you are over-qualified now.  But the big question is "Can you play beach volleyball with dudes?"   8)
> 
> I would think Flight Engineer may be a bit out of your league however...   >



LOL, thanks. Yes, I can haha, volleyball is a fun sport. 

I emailed them (Canadian Forces) and I will be waiting for a reply


----------



## Tyler Valdal (10 Sep 2012)

So here is the thing I am 23 years old in College and currently thinking about my Career and where i want it to go. I have always thought i would be good in a military Career but have decided against it . 

The reason is because i have a stutter , not a very bad on like most people think but a stutter none the less. Now my question is will this hamper my chances of getting into the army or having a military career at all.? Because of my Stutter i sometimes suffer from Anxiety in speaking in crowds or up front with some people. 

I am really interested in joining the Military mainly the Army or Navy and any help in this topic i would greatly appreciate it


----------



## medicineman (10 Sep 2012)

I've known lots of folks that stutter in the CF - doubt it will be an issue.

MM


----------



## ModlrMike (10 Sep 2012)

BGen Jim Cox


We can probably close this thread now.  :


----------



## medicineman (10 Sep 2012)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> BGen Jim Cox
> 
> 
> We can probably close this thread now.  :



You had to do that didn't you??!!!  You should know better than to bring Voldemorte into the thread...

MM

Edited for addition and spelling


----------



## Tyler Valdal (10 Sep 2012)

i was just looking for some insight into the matter is all not ridicule on closing the thread because its a stupid question


----------



## ModlrMike (10 Sep 2012)

Tyler Valdal said:
			
		

> i was just looking for some insight into the matter is all not ridicule on closing the thread because its a stupid question



There's no ridicule in my answer. The name provided answers your question: he has a stutter and rose to the rank of BGen. Question answered.


----------



## mariomike (10 Sep 2012)

Tyler Valdal said:
			
		

> i was just looking for some insight into the matter is all not ridicule on closing the thread because its a stupid question



This may help.

"Stuttering / Speech Impediments":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31660.0/nowap.html


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## medicineman (10 Sep 2012)

Tyler,

Brig Gen Cox was a stutterer, but most folks that ran into him in the military either loved the man or really disliked him...I was one of the latter...hence the comments.

Again, as I said earlier, I've known lots of folks in the Service that stutter - the only career impediment it has, if any, is the one in your own mind.

Apologies for the silliness.

MM


----------



## Tyler Valdal (10 Sep 2012)

Thank you all


----------



## Wookilar (10 Sep 2012)

Mike is completely correct, there are many people in the CF with a speech impediment of some sort. One of my best friends stutters quite severely. Basic training was not overly easy (according to him), but it's not exactly easy for anyone (that's kind of the point in Basic really). He is also now one of the best Warrant Officers I have had the pleasure of working with and is currently employed in a high profile position out of trade.

BGen Jimmy Cox was named to give you an example of what rank you could be reasonably expected to reach. The sky is the limit.

The fact BGen Cox was absolutely bat-**** crazy has nothing to do with the fact he stutters.


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (10 Sep 2012)

Tyler Valdal said:
			
		

> So here is the thing I am 23 years old in College and currently thinking about my Career and where i want it to go. I have always thought i would be good in a military Career but have decided against it .
> 
> The reason is because i have a stutter , not a very bad on like most people think but a stutter none the less. Now my question is will this hamper my chances of getting into the army or having a military career at all.? Because of my Stutter i sometimes suffer from Anxiety in speaking in crowds or up front with some people.
> 
> I am really interested in joining the Military mainly the Army or Navy and any help in this topic i would greatly appreciate it



Tyler,

Do not prevent yourself from trying because you are worried about a stutter. Apply to the CF if that is your desire, give your best during Basic and see what happens! There are many folks in the CF with some form of speech impediment, myself included. The only limits it will impose are those you set upon yourself. You may even find that in military situations you speak just fine. If not, don't worry about it. 

Cheers

T2B


----------



## sky777 (17 Sep 2012)

I really don't want discourage anybody because level of stuttering is different from person to person.
But my experience was not easy.
Morning inspection - you must say:
"Officer-cadet XXXXXXX  (last 3 digits service number), name of trade , number of trade
is waiting for inspection Master Corporal."
Reports for me was issue, but maybe it is not question of stuttering.
I was scared by myself. Instructors were kind and nobody paid attention to my stuttering.
My opinion if person who stutters wish to join army- just do it with being courage and brave.


----------



## sky777 (17 Sep 2012)

Tango2Bravo said:
			
		

> The only limits it will impose are those you set upon yourself.


+1


----------



## Aaron97 (14 Feb 2015)

Im 17 and have wanted to join the CAF for a long time, however I stutter/stammer a bit when talking. Sometimes I can say a whole sentence without stuttering, then next thing you know, i can't. I originally wanted to go for Legal Officer or Military Police as I am very interested in Law, but I do realize that those careers do require perfect english skills, so I have decided to go for Weapons Technician. Also with a speech impediment, is it still possible to raise up to leadership ranks overtime [20-40 years]? (MCpl, Sgt, etc?). Im hoping to do some speech counselling which may help reduce it a bit? Also, is this something that may get me targeted by staff during basic?


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## Jarnhamar (14 Feb 2015)

I can't give you an official answer but I've seen a handful of people with various degrees of speech issues like you mentioned, including an MP (military police) who's doing very well for himself.

If you want to be a lawyer or MP go for it.  It also shouldn't affect your leadership or promotions.


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## medicineman (14 Feb 2015)

My brigade commander a number of years had a horrible stutter...I wouldn't worry too much.

MM


----------



## Blackadder1916 (14 Feb 2015)

Well, someone has already pointed you to the larger consolidated thread about stutters and stammers.  It won't be long before these posts are added to that thread.  If this reenergizes discussion about the issue it won't be long before someone mentions a well known and beloved (hah) inspector of socks, wool, grey who also had a speech impediment.  You can make your own judgement if it impaired his career.  http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/about/who-is-involved/james-cox/  And if you want to hear what he sounds like you can try http://en.video.canoe.tv/search/james%20cox/more-support/1269122447001  He didn't always speak as clearly.


----------



## OldSolduer (14 Feb 2015)

medicineman said:
			
		

> My brigade commander a number of years had a horrible stutter...I wouldn't worry too much.
> 
> MM



Jjjjjjjjjimmmmy?


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## medicineman (14 Feb 2015)

:nod:


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## Jarnhamar (14 Feb 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Well, someone has already pointed you to the larger consolidated thread about stutters and stammers.  It won't be long before these posts are added to that thread.  If this reenergizes discussion about the issue it won't be long before someone mentions a well known and beloved (hah) inspector of socks, wool, grey who also had a speech impediment.  You can make your own judgement if it impaired his career.  http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/about/who-is-involved/james-cox/  And if you want to hear what he sounds like you can try http://en.video.canoe.tv/search/james%20cox/more-support/1269122447001  He didn't always speak as clearly.



Did he seriously inspect peoples socks?


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## SeaKingTacco (14 Feb 2015)

:nod:


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## Old Sweat (14 Feb 2015)

The issue socks of the day had a coloured thread woven into the toe. Apparently the overriding indication of one's military ability was being able to sort your socks so you had the same colour on each foot.


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## exspy (14 Feb 2015)

Aaron97 said:
			
		

> 1) Im 17 and have wanted to join the CAF for a long time, however I stutter/stammer a bit when talking.
> 
> 2) I originally wanted to go for Legal Officer or Military Police as I am very interested in Law, but I do realize that those careers do require perfect english skills, so I have decided to go for Weapons Technician.
> 
> ...



1) I did.  I had a stutter when I was commissioned.  It was never a hindrance in my short and undistinguished career.  My last CO had a worse stutter than I did.

2) After my military time I worked in law enforcement and intelligence for 30 years.  Again, it was never a hindrance.  Worked with other stutterers many times.  It's more common than you think.  Something to do with type A personalities, I think.  I've also worked with lispers, hare lipped people and those who pronounce their r's as w's.  I've never heard of anyone being held back because of a speech impediment.  If you're good at what you do it won't matter.

By the way, lawyers don't need (and most don't have) perfect English skills.  Don't be too impressed with lawyers.  They're just like everyone else.  Go for the career you want, not what you think you're only worthy of.

3) Winston Churchill had a lisp and a stutter.  You can rise to be CDS.

4) I'm not saying it won't, but it didn't happen to me.  I've heard of it happening to others, but in my experience if anyone is taking the mickey with you it's because you're one of the team.  One of the lads, so don't take offence.  If someone's being a jerk about it, don't worry.  It's not the first jerk you've met and it won't be the last.

Good luck with your career.  Again, choose the career you want.

Cheers,
Dan.


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## garb811 (14 Feb 2015)

Aaron97 said:
			
		

> Im 17 and have wanted to join the CAF for a long time, however I stutter/stammer a bit when talking. Sometimes I can say a whole sentence without stuttering, then next thing you know, i can't. I originally wanted to go for Legal Officer or Military Police as I am very interested in Law, but I do realize that those careers do require perfect english skills, so I have decided to go for Weapons Technician. Also with a speech impediment, is it still possible to raise up to leadership ranks overtime [20-40 years]? (MCpl, Sgt, etc?). Im hoping to do some speech counselling which may help reduce it a bit? Also, is this something that may get me targeted by staff during basic?


I know, and have known, many MP who stutter, including one who made it to CWO.


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## kratz (14 Feb 2015)

Good on you for asking.


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## ElecEngGirl (22 Mar 2015)

vida said:
			
		

> Hey
> 
> I am new here and have been thinking about joining the army for some time now. I have had a stutter my hole life and  I am wondering if this will be a problem in the army? If I do encounter some prejudice, will something be done?  Stuttering seems to be the only disability that it still OK to make fun of. Will I be protected by army law/rule the same way racism and other prejudices are taken care of?
> 
> Thanks



Good day,

My SO and I are both in the military, and my SO has had a bad stutter since he was very young. No problem getting into the Forces! It only causes him some trouble when giving presentations. 
Also - the Forces actually pays for 10 speech therapy sessions per year for him.


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## Aaron97 (18 Aug 2015)

I have another concern, though my stuttering may be acceptable behind the wire and/or in the comforts of performing my job duty at work, my most concern over stuttering is for parades or combat. First, I realize communication is vital in combat and the problem is I will likely stutter when using the radio. Does anyone have any tips or comments on this? Also, if I may ask, how often is the command "Tallest on the right, shortest on the left, in ___ rank..size" used/called during public parades, cause i find in cadets, when they call "numbers" i stutter on certain numbers..where even to the extent I have to purposely observe the number of people beside me to ensure my number i call out is a number I wont stutter on (e.g, if i realize im number 11..i will purposely arrange myself to be number 10 or 12). I wouldn't mind as much stuttering at my own corps but if we are in front of the public eye, the last thing I want is for some clueless person that knows nothing about stuttering think that the CF hired some incompetent r3tard that cant spit out words properly. My primary concern is i do not wish to make the CAF look bad because I stutter.


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## LightFighter (18 Aug 2015)

Just have to find your own way of dealing with it, might be easier said than done depending on the severity of your speech impediment. 


Sizing will be done before every parade you do. Also, sizing is done prior to the parade(out of the public eye). You won't be able to move around to pick a number position you are comfortable with, an NCO will not appreciate seeing you moving to change your position.


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## northern_kid (14 Nov 2016)

Hi all,

I know there's been lots of questions asked about the reserve basic training before but I had a few that I didn't see addressed and was wondering if someone could be so kind and help. I plan on joining the reserves soon and will probably train in Alberta.

1. I have a bit of a learning disability and I have concerns that I'll have issues learning what they teach in basic training. Do they offer one-on-oee guidance or answer questions?  Do the instructors/team members have any patience for those who are a little slower or would I be chewed up[?

2. In part-time reserves is swimming a requirement?

3. Are we allowed to bring anything from home like laptops/cellphones?  Would we even be allowed to use them or is their time to use them?

4. Are we allowed to call wives back home and how often?

5. Is there ever alcohol use on base?

6. What kind of food do they serve to the recruits?

7. Are the showers communal or private?   How many guys usually share a room?

8. Is there a good age range of recruits or are they all early 20's?

Cheers.


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## mariomike (14 Nov 2016)

northern_kid said:
			
		

> I have a bit of a learning disability and I have concerns that I'll have issues learning what they teach in basic training. Do they offer one-on-oee guidance or answer questions?  Do the instructors/team members have any patience for those who are a little slower or would I be chewed up[?



Learning Disabilities  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/40397.0



			
				northern_kid said:
			
		

> In part-time reserves is swimming a requirement?



Military Swim Test - When, Where, and How- Merged  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/17795.0
12 pages.



			
				northern_kid said:
			
		

> Are we allowed to bring anything from home like laptops/cellphones?  Would we even be allowed to use them or is their time to use them?



Electronics during BMQ
http://army.ca/forums/threads/103685.0/nowap.html
22 pages.



			
				northern_kid said:
			
		

> What kind of food do they serve to the recruits?



https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+alcohol+base&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=NEIpWMPUI8qC8QedpYNA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+food



			
				northern_kid said:
			
		

> Are the showers communal or private?   How many guys usually share a room?



Showers - Nudity  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/21016.0/nowap.html
5 pages.

BMQ-Showering  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/113753.0

etc...



			
				northern_kid said:
			
		

> Is there a good age range of recruits or are they all early 20's?



Average age of enrollment
https://army.ca/forums/threads/102500.0

BMQ Age group  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/72152.0
2 pages 

etc...


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## northern_kid (14 Nov 2016)

These look great thanks.


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## mariomike (14 Nov 2016)

northern_kid said:
			
		

> These look great thanks.



You are welcome. Good luck.


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## jaysfan17 (14 Nov 2016)

What reserve unit are you thinking of joining?


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## northern_kid (16 Nov 2016)

I was thinking of joining the Seaforth unit.


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## jaysfan17 (16 Nov 2016)

Seaforth Highlanders? Isn't that in BC?


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## mariomike (16 Nov 2016)

luttrellfan said:
			
		

> Seaforth Highlanders? Isn't that in BC?



http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/seaforth-highlanders/index.page


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## northern_kid (17 Nov 2016)

Yes it is B.C. in the Lower Mainland


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## RedcapCrusader (17 Nov 2016)

My answers in Yellow



			
				northern_kid said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I know there's been lots of questions asked about the reserve basic training before but I had a few that I didn't see addressed and was wondering if someone could be so kind and help. I plan on joining the reserves soon and will probably train in Alberta.
> 
> ...



One thing to remember too, depending on the type and extent of the disability, you may or may not be barred from enrolment in the Canadian Armed Forces, because when push comes to shove, we don't always have that extra time. Having said that, I've met a few people with various learning disabilities to varying degrees that excel in the military environment.

Good luck to you!


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## 7thghoul (28 Jul 2017)

I have looked pretty hard but can't find anything relating to trade eligibility standards in relation to learning disabilities (some good looking links but they died I suppose). To be fair, I think my "learning disability" is a joke, basically got diagnosed in the late 90's when a wave of panic set over parents everywhere that set off a chain of mass diagnoses of ADD et al if a kid just happened to have some kind of personality at all.

Basically, I have (had?) something called developmental co-ordination disorder (formerly awkward child syndrome lol) that basically outlines that if a kid can't hand-write as fast or as neat as his peers then obviously he's disabled. I have had several psycho-educational evals preformed as a child/teen and they all recommended I be given extra time on tests basically. I thought it was all bullshit though and never asked for extra time in high school or university and still got a 3.4 gpa in my bachelors degree (communications/business).

Guess I'm just wondering if there may be some kind of list of disqualifying learning disabilities in medical despite the fact that I can show academic success and performed well on my CFAT?

Please note, I have never taken any kind of medication prescribed or otherwise to treat this "condition".


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## mariomike (28 Jul 2017)

7thghoul said:
			
		

> Guess I'm just wondering if there may be some kind of list of disqualifying learning disabilities in medical despite the fact that I can show academic success and performed well on my CFAT?



You passed CFAT.

These are the,

Canadian Armed Forces Medical Standards (CFP 154)
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/index.page


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