# Not Sure, can somebody clarify this for me.



## platinumfx (25 Oct 2004)

OK so I'm going to apply for the ROTP program soon, and part one of my question I guess is dose the when you apply for the ROTP do you apply for the trade at the same time, or are you just applying for ROTP? Well I'm interrested in becoming a pilot, so I would also like to know if they do take ROTP's for that trader, how many do they take? I was told that they have about 120 spots for DEO applicants, but haven't filled them in like 4 years. Is this true? If so   then do I stand a better chance of getting in for pilot. From what I have been told, I meet all of the physical requirements, like eye sight, I'm 6"0, weigh 160 pounds, etc.. Now the only thing that I require is the degree, I'm going to be attending the University of Manitoba to start my engineering degree in Jan. So once I have start the program, I plan on applying for the ROTP. The reason that I don't apply before is that I had crappy crappy marks in high school, cause well I just didn't give a rats @ss back then. So I plan   on showing them my university marks.

So dose anybody know what my odds of getting into the ROTP program are? Also what are my odds, of getting into the Pilot program as a ROTP applicant and not a DEO?

Thanks to all for any information that you guys, and ladies can give me. Thanks in advance.

FX.


----------



## platinumfx (25 Oct 2004)

This is an extra add on. LOL I was also told that the 4 years of university would go towards my time in for pilot should I be accepted. Dose anybody konw anything about this. I don't think it's true, but then again if I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking. LOL

Cheers,

FX


----------



## Zoomie (25 Oct 2004)

ROTP and DEO are two very separate entities.  If the CF says that they need 120 DEO pilots this year, it has zero bearing on how many ROTP pilots they will accept.

ROTP time will not go towards the seven years of Oblig service that is required of all CF pilots.  This service begins the day that you are awarded your Wings.  

I suggest you buckle down and study hard while at the U of Man.  RMC (ie ROTP) will want to look at your high school marks regardless of what you do at University - just something to keep in mind.

Attention to detail is very important in my trade - use spell check and recheck your posts before hitting that button.


----------



## platinumfx (25 Oct 2004)

Well thank you for the information. I was lead to believe that I would be able to complete my degree at the U of M, or is this not true. If somebody could clarify this for it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again. Also any other bit of info or comments, or even thoughts as to what I can do to better my chances of getting into the trade of Pilot would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Cheers,
Fx


----------



## Bograt (25 Oct 2004)

You may want to consider getting your Private ticket. Getting a private pilot license (PPL) will accomplish a couple of things-
1. Show you are committed to the dream (PPL isn't cheap)
2. Test to see if you have the "hands" to do it.
3. Prepare you for ACS.

Cheers,


----------



## Inch (25 Oct 2004)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Attention to detail is very important in my trade - use spell check and recheck your posts before hitting that button.



Uh, _our_ trade Mav.  ;D Well put amigo.

Bograt hit it pretty good, if you don't pass ACS, you won't be a pilot anytime soon. If you start at U of M, you may be offered ROTP for your last 3 years, but this is pretty rare. I had a friend do it, but he was taking Poly Sci, engineering may be different. Also, as Zoomie alluded to, you're going to have to work on the spelling, dose instead of does and shur instead of sure just won't fly when you're writing someone's PER. 

To answer your first question, you pick the trade, then you go for the entry plan.

Cheers


----------



## bossi (25 Oct 2004)

FX said:
			
		

> I was lead to believe ...



Should be "I was led to believe ..."
(but, don't worry - we're just pulling your leg for fun - pilots don't have to spell ... haha!)


----------



## SeaKingTacco (26 Oct 2004)

Hmmm, none of my pilots could read...


----------



## aesop081 (26 Oct 2004)

hahaha...

Whats the diference between an engine and a pilot ?

The engine stops whining when the flight is over !

Sorry Inch, dont hold it against me , i might have to fly with you in the not so distant future !!


----------



## Inch (27 Oct 2004)

Damn it! The GIBs are ganging up! It's ok, I like you guys, someone has to bring the coffee.  

My favourite pilot joke: How do you know when a pilot is half done his conversation? When he says "enough about me, lets talk about my aircraft". 


Cheers


----------



## aesop081 (27 Oct 2004)

Ok , Inch..this one's should be right up your alley:

Whats the difference between a pig and a pilot ?

You dont see a pig walking around the bar drunk at 3am  looking for a pilot !!


What is the non-essential bus for ?

Takes the co-pilot out to the aircraft !

Whats the difference between a pilot and an FE in 1 wing ?

Eventualy the FE gets posted out of 1 wing !

Cheers

BTW.......its PB sandwiches...not cofee !!


----------



## Bograt (27 Oct 2004)

LOL.

Can we just all get along?


----------



## aesop081 (27 Oct 2004)

Of course we can, we are all just one big vrew arent we........after all, we all had to suffer trough HPMA !!!


----------



## Bograt (27 Oct 2004)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Of course we can, we are all just one big vrew arent we........after all, we all had to suffer trough HPMA !!!



Based on your "attention to detail" you must not be a pilot either.... 


Keep in mind I'm a pilot puke wanna be so take what I say with a grain of salt.


----------



## Inch (27 Oct 2004)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Of course we can, we are all just one big vrew arent we........after all, we all had to suffer trough HPMA !!!



Ah yes, the all encompassing "you too are a part of the team" lectures. I can't believe we have to do those bloody things every year. 

Another pilot joke: What's the difference between God and a pilot? God doesn't think he's a pilot.

aesop081, are you asking for 423?


----------



## aesop081 (27 Oct 2004)

NOOOOOOOOO    !!!!!!!


I will take what they give me but i would prefer 443 sqn or at the very least 407 sqn. I like the west coast and also, my kids live in Edmonton. But with my luck......
If you think having to do HPMA every year is bad...we have to do 13 hours of it before wings grad !!

Bograt:
Yes..it's true, i can't type but.....
In my Previous MOC, i used to clear land mines for a living so i think my attention to details is at least as good as yours..........and since i still have all my legs and arms, i would say i dont have a problem there.


----------



## Inch (27 Oct 2004)

Seen, you will spend some time out here though during the OTU.  We had to do the 2 day course too before wings, what a painful experience that was.


----------



## aesop081 (27 Oct 2004)

Yeah..rumour has is that OTU for guys going 124's will be in july next year.  Thats another reason for me wanting sea kings...getting OTU out of the way ASAP....CP-140 MOAT is not until october 05.

Not to mention that i still have to do sea survival, basic EW and SERE somewhere in all this !!!!


----------



## Inch (27 Oct 2004)

The Aurora OTU is about the same time frame for the drivers, Zoomie is kicking around here, he was originally slated for Auroras in Comox but due to the wait he managed to maneuver his way into Buffs.

Sea Survival is a blast, the pilot one is a week long since we do the single man and parachute stuff as well as the multi man rafts. SERE is a week as well, I think for everybody, it's pretty fun too. The winter is the best time to do that, no bugs but super cold, so pick your poison. 

Cheers


----------



## aesop081 (27 Oct 2004)

Right now my poison is " Pilot, Radar...are you ready for a turn point breif ???"


----------



## Bograt (28 Oct 2004)

For those not briefed on the alphabet soup, OTU is?? (Operational Training Unit?) And HPMA(??) EW (electronic Wafare??) and SERE(??)

aesop081 - Your correct. I'll keep the wise arse zingers to myself until I have earned the right to dish em. Cheers.

The Greatest Lies in Aviation

Pardon me, ma'am, I seem to have lost my jet keys. 
I have no interest in flying for the airlines. 
I fixed it right the first time, it must have failed for other reasons. 
All that turbulence spoiled my landing. 
I only need glasses for reading. 
I broke out right at minimums. 
The weather is gonna be alright; it's clearing to VFR. 
Don't worry about the weight and balance -- it'll fly. 
If we get a little lower I think we'll see the lights. 
I'm 22, got 6000 hours, a four year degree and 3000 hours in an F-16. 
We shipped the part yesterday. 
I'd love to have a woman WSO. 
All you have to do is follow the book. 
This plane outperforms the book by 20 percent. 
We in the military aviation are overpaid, underworked and well respected. 
Oh sure, no problem, I've got over 2000 hours in that aircraft. 
I have 5000 hours total time, 3200 are actual instrument. 
No need to look that up, I've got it all memorized. 
Sure I can fly it -- it has wings, doesn't it? 
Your plane will be ready by 2 o'clock. 
We fly every day -- we don't need recurrent training. 
It just came out of annual -- how could anything be wrong? 
I thought YOU took care of that. 
I've got the field in sight. 
Of course I know where we are. 
I'm SURE the gear was down.


----------



## aesop081 (28 Oct 2004)

Bograt,

No problems.  How far along the pilot pipeline are you ?

OTU : Operational training unit
MOAT: Maritime operational aircrew training
EW : Electronic warfare
SERE: Survival,Evasion, Resistance and Escape
HPMA : Human performance in military aviation

As for HPMA....well, i don't want to ruin your fun !!

Basic EW course is taught here in winnipeg and is a requirement for my MOC as EW is a large part of our employement.  SERE is manditory for all aircrews and is taught by CFSSAT here in winnipeg.

In regards to those lies.....scares me that i have heard some pilots actualy say that stuff

Cheers


----------



## Bograt (28 Oct 2004)

Well, if we are going to use the pipeline analogy........ I am waiting to be plopped into the toilet, to be flushed, to enter the pipeline.

*waiting for DEO board November 17-18*


----------



## aesop081 (28 Oct 2004)

LOL......good luck with that !!


----------



## Inch (28 Oct 2004)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Well, if we are going to use the pipeline analogy........ I am waiting to be plopped into the toilet, to be flushed, to enter the pipeline.
> 
> *waiting for DEO board November 17-18*



The pipe is the training system, more of that wonderful military lingo! 

A little more alphabet soup so you'll know what the hell the guys are talking about when you get further down the pipe.
AMT -  Aeromedical training, you do AMT basic pilot, SERE and sea survival prior to going to Moose Jaw
IP - Instructor pilot
QFI -  Qualified Flight instructor, same as an IP, just depends on who you're talking to
ICP - Instrument Check Pilot, these are the guys that give you your instrument rating or ticket as we call it
IRT - Instrument Rating test, you go on an IRT with a ICP and you get your ticket (hopefully!)
ICHT - Initial Clearhood Test, you'll do one of these on PFT, one in MJ and one at BHS
BHS - Basic Helicopter school, or ball hockey school  
RUET - Roll-over underwater egress training, or dunker, basically, a helo is top heavy and will turtle 99% of the time when ditching, this course teaches you how to get out of the helo while upside down under water. It's a life saver for sure.

Anyhoo, there's about a million of them, when in doubt, ask someone.

Cheers


----------



## Bograt (28 Oct 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> ICHT - Initial Clearhood Test, you'll do one of these on PFT, one in MJ and one at BHS



I would have preferred it if you said PFT, BFT, and *advanced*
There is something unnatural about helicopters. How can something go round and round and up and down?- sounds a bit too naughty for this small town guy.  Besides I don't pass the height requirement for helicopters, my knuckles don't touch the ground when I walk. 

Cheers.


----------



## Inch (28 Oct 2004)

Bograt said:
			
		

> I would have preferred it if you said PFT, BFT, and *advanced*
> There is something unnatural about helicopters. How can something go round and round and up and down?- sounds a bit too naughty for this small town guy.  Besides I don't pass the height requirement for helicopters, my knuckles don't touch the ground when I walk.
> 
> Cheers.



Ouch!  :'(

Actually we also call BFT "Phase IIa"  that's why I said Moose Jaw, and I said BHS because you're probably going to go there, half the cockpits in the CF are flingwings.   A man's gotta dream though!


----------



## aesop081 (28 Oct 2004)

more smart ass remarks ...............

AMT was ........fun...........
not looking forward to RUET
dont forget stuff like CDU, PCU, APU, PTU, ADC, DADC, IFF, ISAR, ATIS, ILS,TACAN, RVR, VORTAC, NDB, .............OH AND DONT FORGET THE T-H-I-N-G !!!!

Have fun Bograt !!

If you want more insentive to succeed as a pilot.......if you fail....you'll have to be a navigator !!!!

Cheers


----------



## Bograt (29 Oct 2004)

I think I have a problem with my smart arse remarks. Admitting you have a problem is the first step- only 11 more to go. Hey, but referring to myself as a piece of poop must be my "rock bottom"

Quick questions.

At what point do you mention the type of aircraft you want to fly? I am guessing it goes like this. Sometime in PFT you are asked to choose between multi, fast jet and rotary. After BFT you are streamed. _*Sometime during your advanced course your asked which airframe you want?*_

Inch or Zoomie, do you have any idea how long the wait is to get PFT? I have heard that SLT is being waived. 

aesop081- Don't you have to be smart to be a Nav? I vaguely remember the nav exam at ACS. Lots of pretty numbers. If I fail, I'll be a logistics officer.


----------



## aesop081 (29 Oct 2004)

i was just poking fun at a freind of mine who is here at the nav school with me...he is on is basic nav course !!!


----------



## Zoomie (29 Oct 2004)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Inch or Zoomie, do you have any idea how long the wait is to get PFT? I have heard that SLT is being waived.



Last I heard, there was virtually no wait for PFT.  Your biggest delay maybe just getting to St. Jean for BOTC.

They don't care about slot selections at PFT, that is a civilian operation and has no impact on your career progression (expect for the vaunted PASS).

In Moose Jaw your Course Director will ask you what stream of flying you are interested in most.  (ie Jet, Multi, Helo)  He may ask you three times over the course's duration, just to make sure that you are being practical.  

Once you are selected for your Advanced Flight training, you go through the selection process all over again for your particular posting choices.  In the end, the Career Manager produces his list of where he wants your course graduates to go and you get what is closest to meet your desires.  In my case I asked for (1) Hercules - Trenton, (2) Dash-8 - Winnipeg, (3) Buffalo - Comox -->  Initiallly I was given Aurora's, Comox.  So I got the posting I wanted just not the airframe - as it turns out I really got what I wanted in the end.  I was up flying the Buff last night, shooting PARs and visuals to rwy 30.


----------



## Bograt (29 Oct 2004)

Thanks for all the information guys. Hopefully I'll get the word this month. My understanding is offers will be made for a January Botc. I heard St. Jean is very beautiful in the winter. Don't they have that snow hotel around there? Simply stunning.

I certainly would like to buy a pop for y'all. Thanks again.


----------



## Born2Fly (29 Oct 2004)

Aaaaah.

I love you guys.

I am so looking forward to starting BFT, if and when I get there.


*Still waiting in Verification of Former Service Hell*


----------



## Storm (29 Oct 2004)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> I was up flying the Buff last night, shooting PARs and visuals to rwy 30.



rwy 30 ??? Did they change the number this year or something, or were you 10 degrees off (I can see the response now: "damn, that's what I was doing wrong"   ;D)


----------



## Zoomie (30 Oct 2004)

Runways change with variation/deviation shifts - the 10,000' strip at YQQ is now 12/30 vice 11/29

I was flying the Cormorant Sim (CPT actually) today and noted that the runway marker was still 11 at the button.  I guess it really isn't that big of a priority to change the coding for the software.


----------



## Inch (30 Oct 2004)

It doesn't even have to shift the full 10 degrees before they change it. When I was in the Soo, the runway heading changed from 295 to 296 so the runway number changed from 29 to 30. It's pretty amazing how that stuff can get ingrained into you, I think 90% of the RT contained the phrase "......rwy 29, I mean 30".

Cheers


----------



## Storm (4 Nov 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> It doesn't even have to shift the full 10 degrees before they change it. When I was in the Soo, the runway heading changed from 295 to 296 so the runway number changed from 29 to 30. It's pretty amazing how that stuff can get ingrained into you, I think 90% of the RT contained the phrase "......rwy 29, I mean 30".
> 
> Cheers


I'm pretty sure my first few radio calls would be missing the "I mean 30" 

I got my glider license in Comox a number of years back as a cadet, and spent a couple summers working there as well. All of it was with 11/29, so it's just going to take some getting used to for me. Damn variation...



			
				Zoomie said:
			
		

> Runways change with variation/deviation shifts


I would be quite scared if they started adjusting runway numbers for deviation. The guys swinging the compass could have endless fun with that one   ;D


----------



## SeaKingTacco (5 Nov 2004)

I would be quite scared if they started adjusting runway numbers for deviation. The guys swinging the compass could have endless fun with that one   ;D

Whoa- good observation!  I had to think about that one for a few minutes and I am supposed to be a qualified Air Navigator...


----------



## Storm (6 Nov 2004)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Whoa- good observation!   I had to think about that one for a few minutes and I am supposed to be a qualified Air Navigator...



Loose any aircraft recently   ;D (sorry, couldn't resist) 

Honestly though, it's understandable. I alwas have to think back to "TVMDC" to remember which one is deviation and which one is variation. As long as you can remember that TV Makes Dumb Children it's all good.


----------



## aesop081 (6 Nov 2004)

Hmmmmmmm,

Variation: Angular difference between TRUE north and MAGNETIC north

Deviation: Angular difference between MAGNETIC north and COMPASS north

ooops...nav exam passed....must flush this to make room for curve-of- pursuit homings !!!

What the hell is TVDMC ?


----------



## SeaKingTacco (6 Nov 2004)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Hmmmmmmm,
> 
> Variation: Angular difference between TRUE north and MAGNETIC north
> 
> ...



TVMDC- "True Vampires Make Dull Company".  It is a memory aide to help out when you are converting True bearings or headings to Compass headings or bearings.  The order is:
1.  Take a heading in degrees True
2.  Apply Variation (in the case of Victoria, BC it is 20E, so you subtract 20 degrees)
3.  Add or subtract your compass Deviation (found either written on your compass card by doing a True heading check with a sextant- in the old days)
4.  You are now left with a Magnetic Heading you can fly 
5.  On some aircraft, there may be a compass Correction of a degree or two that also has to be applied, if you are truly anal, which then leaves you with a Compass heading.  It doesn't come up a bunch in Sea Kings (ie never- our kit is not that good).

Cheers.


----------



## I_Drive_Planes (6 Nov 2004)

> TVMDC- "True Vampires Make Dull Company".



When I did my CASARA navigator training, and my PPL it was "True Virgins Make Dull Company"  ;D


----------



## aesop081 (6 Nov 2004)

Cant say that i've ever heard that one before...not even for PPL.

Variation EAST, Magnetic least
Variation WEST, magnetic best

Deviation EAST, compass least
Deviation WEST, compass best

TVMDC......i see everything goes PC...even acronyms !!!

2nd run in the TMT on monday...hope it goes better than the first !!!


----------

