# Need to Evacuate the White Helmets From Syria



## tomahawk6 (15 Jul 2018)

Discussions are wat by the US,United Kingdom, France and Canada.Evacuate them to where is really the discussion.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-allies-discussing-evacuating-rescue-group-from-syria/ar-AAA6RZM?ocid=spartandhp


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## pbi (16 Jul 2018)

I hope they are successful: these people deserve to be helped, after risking their lives to help others.

Naturally, the Russians don't want these people to get out: they might provide some eyewitness testimonies that Moscow might find a bit awkward.


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Jul 2018)

What a hoot it would be to see Trump and Putin come up with a workable joint solution to get them to safety. Heads would explode all over the world. 😆


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Jul 2018)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Interesting choice for an edit.  The only bit you changed is deleting a reference to where they could be evacuated to.
> 
> The only real group with a serious hate-on for them is the Russians.... and since Trump just went full-Monica Lewinski with Putin (saying relationship issues are all the Americans' fault), no 'right thinking' person should be doubting the Russians....   :



Except Trump is coming into talks just after having his troops wipe out 200 or so Russian mercenaries and friends. Putin knows Trump will be full of nice words, but will not hesitate to use force either. Not to forget Obama's "I have more flexibility after the election" quote to the Russian PM/FM (can't recall which). Obama was a weakling that inspired Putin. Trump is willing to lash out and not as predictable.


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## CBH99 (16 Jul 2018)

I think we need to remember something, or keep something very much in mind.  Regardless of the Trump/Putin relationship, public statements made by either party, etc etc -- we need to remember that the Russians aren't always the bad guys, the way the western media constantly portrays them.

The Russians have very legitimate concerns about security & political issues that are happening car closer to their doorstep than ours, and they aren't being "provocative" and "up to no good" anytime they deploy anything outside of their own borders.  

Do we have the luxury of a population hearing only one side of a story for the most part?  Yes we do.  As do they, on the flip side of the same coin.  


Accusing the Russians of being up to no good for meddling in the elections of sovereign states is pretty hypocritical of the US.  Accusing the Russians of war-mongering for interfering in Crimea (Given the Russian perspective, was justified....not saying I agree with that, but we need to remember that perspective & perception of a threat is a hugely important factor we can't dismiss) is also pretty hypocritical when we look at US posturing towards China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, etc.

_My only point here is that we can't always assume the Russians are at fault for everything._  It's a convenience to point the finger at other countries and say "bad guys, look at what they are doing" -- but the world is far more complex than that...and the US can't remotely deny some of the Russian actions are simply a direct result of American actions.  A necessary counter balance at times, in my humble opinion.

**And yes, US military forces absolutely obliterated the Russian 'mercenary' force approaching their locations.  The Russians who survived and spoke about the incident publicly mostly ended up murdered or disappeared.  An incident I"m sure both have in mind coming into this, minus the people disappearing part**


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## pbi (17 Jul 2018)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> I think we need to remember something, or keep something very much in mind.  Regardless of the Trump/Putin relationship, public statements made by either party, etc etc -- we need to remember that the Russians aren't always the bad guys, the way the western media constantly portrays them.



Realizing that the Russians are not always the bad actors, or that they have legitimate security concerns, is not the same as minimizing or dismissing them as a threat to Western interests in general, and to the strategic balance in Europe in particular.  Ignoring, or trying to normalize their actions in the eastern Ukraine, is not smart either. I should say that I don't really see the Crimea in quite the same light, given its history, but apparently the Russians felt guilty enough about their actions to embark on the transparent Little Green Men farce (apparently supported by the Moscow Armoured Fighting Vehicle Collectors' Club...). 

Similarly, consistently subjecting Russian actions to scrutiny, calling them out when caught, and maintaining a respectable level of force to counter theirs, are not the same as pointlessly "poking the bear".

As a deeply paranoid country with a largely unaccountable regime, no history of democracy, no real tradition of rule of law, and  very strong influences of extreme ethnic nationalism coupled with a state religion harnessed to the regime, Russia is IMHO not a fully reliable nor trustworthy player. Most of the influences which might give a US govt pause to think before acting either do not exist at all in Russia, or function only weakly. (Perhaps if Mr Trump has his ultimate way, pesky things like Congress, the Senate, the judicial system and a free and aggressive press can be reduced to the level of their opposite numbers in Russia. He can only hope...)

As George Kennan the US diplomat and father of Containment Theory once said: "_Russia can have at its borders only enemies or vassals_":"  I believe this is still true today. When the US emerged as the primary western victor in WWII, it assumed Great Britain's burdens all over the globe. One of those burdens was the strategic imperative that Europe must never be dominated by a single potentially hostile power. That's what got the US, for the first time in its history, into the entanglement of peacetime foreign military alliances that it had always avoided, by forming NATO and acting as its backbone and piggy bank. And that, in my opinion, is why the US doesn't really have the option to "abandon NATO', all Mr Trump's bluster to the contrary.

I don't see that anything much has changed since Kennan's day, particularly as the Putin regime revives the heraldry and regalia of Imperial Russia, toys with rehabilitating Stalin, and continues to scare its smaller neighbours. Can we have good (or at least nonviolent) relations with them? Probably, and we should pursue those when it's prudent to do so. Is there a role for them in the world community? Yes, of course: to deny that would be silly.

But let's never, ever take our eye off them, nor take them at face value.


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## Colin Parkinson (18 Jul 2018)

The thing about Russia in places like Syria, it has some clear and limited goals in the region. Mainly save Assad's regime, maintain a naval base in the Med and project geopolitical power and prestige for the Russian military by the most economical means possible. I would say they achieved their goals. They have for the most part played ball with the US and Israelis and likely have acted as a moderating factor in how the regime deals with the rebels and other forces.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Jul 2018)

Russia meddling in Syria = west upset.

US meddling in Iraq, Libya, etc = ok


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Jul 2018)

Compared to much of the Middle East, Russia is a pragmatic, predictable and reliable actor both in alliance and opposition. the ME abounds with backstabbing intrigue and side switching that most westerners can't wrap their heads around.


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## pbi (20 Jul 2018)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Compared to much of the Middle East, Russia is a pragmatic, predictable and reliable actor both in alliance and opposition. the ME abounds with backstabbing intrigue and side switching that most westerners can't wrap their heads around.



Yes, true. But then, compared to the Middle East, China is a paragon of human rights.


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## Retired AF Guy (22 Jul 2018)

Various news agencies are reporting that a joint international effort was able to rescue hundreds of White Helmet members and their families and evacuate them to Jordan. The latest news from the CBC



> [size=18pt]Canada to accept up to 250 Syrian White Helmet volunteers, family after dramatic escape[/size]
> 
> Canadian officials expected​ to​ immediately begin working with UN​ ​to process families
> 
> ...



 Article Link


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## Colin Parkinson (23 Jul 2018)

i get the sense that this was one of the points in the latest summit with Russia, who then told Assad not to interfere and Washington called in a few cards with Israeli.


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## Remius (23 Jul 2018)

Colin P said:
			
		

> i get the sense that this was one of the points in the latest summit with Russia, who then told Assad not to interfere and Washington called in a few cards with Israeli.



*modified. 

Not in the mood today to elaborate.   I officially retract my statement which was indeed sarcasm and did not add to the thread and may have offended a few people.  

cheers.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Jul 2018)

Remius said:
			
		

> Yes, that must be it...



Care to offer your own explanation? Or debate the one you just challenged?

Or perhaps it was some Sheldon Cooper sarcasm.

Either way, it provides no meaningful addition to the thread.


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## Remius (23 Jul 2018)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Care to offer your own explanation? Or debate the one you just challenged?
> 
> Or perhaps it was some Sheldon Cooper sarcasm.
> 
> Either way, it provides no meaningful addition to the thread.



No and no. 

Yes. 

Agreed.  I'll modify it.


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