# MOOs to Restore a Unit from the Supplementary Order of Battle



## Gorgo (24 Aug 2012)

Quick question:  How exactly is an MOO that is issued to restore a unit from the Supplementary Order of Battle actually worded?  Does anyone know?

Thanks!


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## dapaterson (24 Aug 2012)

Short answer:  It depends.


Certain units from the SOBN have already been amalgamated with current units, so bringing them back would require amending the perpetuating unit's MOO as well.


Generally, though, a MOO is quite simple:  MND revokes all prior MOOs (if any); MND creates Unit X as a unit of a component (Reg/Res/Special Force) of the CF; and allocates the unit to a formation.


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## Gorgo (24 Aug 2012)

And the Canadian Forces Organisational Order that comes with this?

(_Sorry!  Should've asked this with the original question!_)  :-[


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## dapaterson (24 Aug 2012)

Once a MOO is done VCDS staff draft a CFOO.  It's pretty much automatic, and follows essentially a boilerplate format.

O&E staff at the Army HQ are very familiar with the processes to amend MOOs and CFOOs, and will give guidance should it be necessary.


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## bick (24 Aug 2012)

Which unit are you looking to have restored?


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## Gorgo (24 Aug 2012)

For a fan fiction story I'm in the midst of rewriting right now, I wish to do the following to two units:

1) Restore the *19th Alberta Dragoons* and make them part of 41 CBG, with RHQ in Edmonton.  This will require their being formally separated from the *South Alberta Light Horse* (the two units were administratively amalgamated in 2006); and

2) Restore the *2nd/10th Dragoons* and make them part of 31 CBG, with RHQ in Niagara Falls.  This will require their being formally re-rolled from the Royal Canadian Artillery (as they were the 57th Regiment RCA from 1946-70 before going on the SOOB) to the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps, plus having any administrative links with the *56th Field Regiment RCA* severed (as 10th Field Battery RCA in Saint Catharines was part of the 57th Regiment before it was put onto the SOOB, then switched to the 56th Regiment).

Again, this is just for a *fan fiction story* to be posted on Fanfiction.net, so a general breakdown of the applicable CFOOs and MOOs like what DAPatterson gave in his first reply is all I really need.  And I will credit both of you for this when I get this posted.

Thanks again.  :nod:


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Aug 2012)

Geez, not the 19th Alberta Dragoons again :facepalm:

Just kidding. Long story. 8)


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## Gorgo (24 Aug 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Geez, not the 19th Alberta Dragoons again :facepalm:
> 
> Just kidding. Long story. 8)



LOL!  Sorry, man.  Didn't mean to bring up bad memories for you.


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## Infanteer (24 Aug 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Geez, not the 19th Alberta Dragoons again :facepalm:
> 
> Just kidding. Long story. 8)



That's exactly what I said!  That poor Regiment is forever affiliated with that goof-ball....


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## Scott (25 Aug 2012)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> That's exactly what I said!  That poor Regiment is forever affiliated with that goof-ball....



Me three. I thought for sure that I was going to see a familiar email when I checked out his profile.

Fred, there is a fan club for you - thy name is Dennis Ruhl


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## FJAG (25 Aug 2012)

Here's a sample CFOO.

Let me know if you can open it OK.

It should do the job for you if you just modify the titles and UICs. I don't think you need to show the change of status. I would expect for the purposes of your novel an "official" document that forms the status that you want should be enough.

Cheers


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## Gorgo (25 Aug 2012)

FJAG said:
			
		

> Here's a sample CFOO.
> 
> Let me know if you can open it OK.
> 
> ...



Awesome.  And I WAS able to open it!  Thank you so much, FJAG!

And would you prefer to have me use your net name or real name in the credits?


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## Gorgo (29 Aug 2012)

Quick question:  What does DSPC mean?  I'm not familiar with this department in NDHQ.


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## dapaterson (29 Aug 2012)

DSPC no longer exists.  DND/CF O&E is now handled under the Chief of Programme, or C PROG.


See: http://www.vcds.forces.gc.ca/sites/page-eng.asp?page=5607


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## Gorgo (29 Aug 2012)

Many thanks.  I'm writing up the scene where the 2nd/10th receive their CFOO right now.


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## daftandbarmy (29 Aug 2012)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> For a fan fiction story I'm in the midst of rewriting right now, I wish to do the following to two units:
> 
> 1) Restore the *19th Alberta Dragoons* and make them part of 41 CBG, with RHQ in Edmonton.  This will require their being formally separated from the *South Alberta Light Horse* (the two units were administratively amalgamated in 2006); and
> 
> ...



If you want to write in some really fictitious stuff you have my permission to include me in the story as the 41 CBG Commander.  ;D


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## Journeyman (29 Aug 2012)

Oh, it's a comedy.   ;D


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## daftandbarmy (29 Aug 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Oh, it's a comedy.   ;D



More like a Tragi-comndy!


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## Infanteer (29 Aug 2012)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> Many thanks.  I'm writing up the scene where the 2nd/10th receive their CFOO right now.



Sorry mate, but that doesn't sound very exciting.  I can write a chapter on administering a remedial measure for you if you want to spice things up.


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## Danjanou (29 Aug 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> More like a Tragi-comndy!



So Dennis is the CO of the 19th?


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## medicineman (30 Aug 2012)

Someone had to dredge up the ghost of Druhl again didn't they...

MM


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Aug 2012)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> So Dennis is the CO of the 19th?



Oh sure. Way to go  :facepalm:


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## Gorgo (30 Aug 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> If you want to write in some really fictitious stuff you have my permission to include me in the story as the 41 CBG Commander.  ;D



LOL!  Sadly, in the brigade call-out I have in my story, it's 37 CBG HQ that goes out, not 41 CBG HQ.

Here are the units:

COMMAND AND CONTROL
*Headquarters 37 Canadian Brigade Group*
Squadron detachment of *721 Communications Regiment* (this is set in 2010, BTW)
Platoon detachment of *3 Intelligence Company*
ARMOURED UNITS
*2nd/10th Dragoons*
*le Régiment de Hull (RCAC)*
*The British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own) (RCAC)*
*19th Alberta Dragoons*
INFANTRY UNIT
*The Royal Winnipeg Rifles*
ARTILLERY UNIT
*10th Field Regiment, RCA* (including 18, 64, 65 and 76 Field Batteries, 101 Locating Battery and 113 Air Defence Battery)
ENGINEER UNIT
*36 Combat Engineer Regiment* (including 20, 30, 38 and 45 Field Engineer Squadrons)
HEALTH SERVICES UNITS
*33 Field Ambulance*
Troop detachment of *23 Field Ambulance* to support 2/10 D
Troop detachment of *51 Field Ambulance* to support R DE HULL
Troop detachment of *12 Field Ambulance* to support BCR
Troop detachment of *15 Field Ambulance* to support 19 ALTA D
Platoon detachment of *17 Field Ambulance* to support R WIN RIF
Troop detachment of *16 Field Ambulance* to support 10 FD REGT RCA
Troop detachment of *35 Field Ambulance* to support 36 CER
COMBAT SERVICE SUPPORT UNIT
*37 Service Battalion*
MILITARY POLICE UNITS
Company detachment of *3 Military Police Regiment*
Platoon detachment of *1 Military Police Regiment* to support R WIN RIF


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## daftandbarmy (30 Aug 2012)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> LOL!  Sadly, in the brigade call-out I have in my story, it's 37 CBG HQ that goes out, not 41 CBG HQ.
> 
> Here are the units:
> 
> ...



So I have to ask, is your target audience primarlily comprised of the military equivalent of train spotters? (you know, like Danjanou   )


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## Canadian.Trucker (30 Aug 2012)

Only 1 infantry unit is called out?  Clearly you left the spice at home, for the spiciest stories involve the masters of mud.


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## Gorgo (30 Aug 2012)

They actually needed large levels of fire support in this case, so I fashioned it as an armoured brigade group in lieu of a mechanised infantry brigade group.


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## Gorgo (30 Aug 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> So I have to ask, is your target audience primarlily comprised of the military equivalent of train spotters? (you know, like Danjanou   )



No.  This is actually a very small component of a much larger story.  But dumb admin clerk me, I like to be as detailed as possible when I write the narrative.


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## Dissident (31 Aug 2012)

Any reason you have a MP company from LFAA's 3 MP Regt and and 1 platoon from LFWA's 1 MP Regt?


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## Danjanou (31 Aug 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> So I have to ask, is your target audience primarlily comprised of the military equivalent of train spotters? (you know, like Danjanou   )



You know you've been a frigging smart arse ever since we were in Cadets. 8)


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## dapaterson (31 Aug 2012)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> You know you've been a frigging smart arse ever since we were in Cadets. 8)



The Roman legions had cadets?


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## Danjanou (31 Aug 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The Roman legions had cadets?



Frack you too sonny  ;D


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## Gorgo (31 Aug 2012)

NinerSix said:
			
		

> Any reason you have a MP company from LFAA's 3 MP Regt and and 1 platoon from LFWA's 1 MP Regt?



On my second-to-last posting in the Regular Force to the *Canadian Land Forces Command and Staff College* in 1989, I was exposed to the *Army 86* plans for possible war against the Warsaw Pact and how the Canadian Army would react to that.  When I saw the actual make-up for an mechanised infantry battalion, I noted there was a military police section assigned to Battalion Headquarters Company.

Since I increased the Canadian Forces Military Police's contribution to a brigade from a platoon to a company, I decided to boost the section that would be assigned to the Royal Winnipeg Rifles to platoon strength correspondingly.


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## dapaterson (31 Aug 2012)

[staff college joke]

Well, if you're writing a work of fiction, Corps 86 is an excellent starting point.

[/staff college joke]


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## Dissident (1 Sep 2012)

Realistically if you wanted to form a full company of field support MPs you would likely have to draw all the field platoons from all 4 MP regiments into a single formed company. Hilarity would not ensue.

In an all hands on deck scenario 1 MP Regt would be able to provide a company+ size elements to deal with a variety of task, but that would mean shutting down guardhouses. Don't know how that fits in your scenario.


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## Blackadder1916 (1 Sep 2012)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> When I saw the actual make-up for an mechanised infantry battalion, I noted there was *a military police section assigned to Battalion Headquarters Company*.



While the line diagram in Corps 86 may indicate that there is a MP section integral to a inf bn, don't immediately equate it to one third of a military police platoon.  The strength of the MP section is/was a SnrNCO/WO and 2 or 3 MCpl/Cpl MPs augmented by regimental police (i.e. infanteers) and usually under the control of the RSM.  Since I now have an idea where you're coming from, I am less confused about the Health Services Units you listed in your notional brigade.  Less confused, but still think it is out to lunch.


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## Gorgo (10 Sep 2012)

BTW, to DAPaterson and FJAG, your names have been included in the credits.

FYI to everyone else, the story can be found here:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6740104/1/Phoenix-From-The-Ashes

Please look about 1/4 the way down Part 31 to see something else I included in this story.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Sep 2012)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> BTW, to DAPaterson and FJAG, your names have been included in the credits.
> 
> FYI to everyone else, the story can be found here:
> 
> ...



Cool  8)


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