# WW1 Memorial Events Planned for 9 April "Vimy Ridge Day"



## The Bread Guy (2 Mar 2010)

This, from VAC web site:


> Today, the Honourable Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Minister of State (Agriculture), announced plans for the Government of Canada to appropriately honour and recognize all Canadians and Newfoundlanders who served during the First World War. The announcement follows the death of John "Jack" Babcock, Canada's last known First World War Veteran, who passed away on February 18, 2010.
> 
> "While we have lost our last direct link to the First World War, we will continue to encourage young Canadians to remember and understand our proud military history and heritage," said Minister Blackburn. "The First World War is a defining part of the Canada we know today and it is a legacy that must be preserved for generations to come."
> 
> ...



More on Vimy Ridge Day here.

_- Edited to add nws rls link, fix spelling of subject -_


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## The Bread Guy (9 Apr 2010)

This via the GG's site:


> As proud and grateful Canadians, we pause today to mark not only the ninety-third anniversary of this Nation’s victory at Vimy Ridge but also to pay tribute to the passing of a truly remarkable generation who helped to end the most terrible conflict the world had ever known.
> 
> These gallant men and women went off to Europe to fight in what was often considered to be “the war to end all wars”; to defend the principles of peace, freedom and justice for their Country and, indeed, for all mankind.  Theirs was a story of unspeakable horror, unmitigated heroism and – ultimately – of inspiring victory. This tremendous sacrifice can rightly be regarded as a defining moment in the history of Canada and is one which we will never forget.
> 
> ...


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## Tank Troll (9 Apr 2010)

My Grandfather, 5 brothers of his, 6 cousins and 2 brother in-laws  signed up to fight in WW I, only he came home. He never talked to me about the war as I was to young (5) when he died but  he talked to my Dad an my Uncles who fought in WW II and Korea about the war. 

My Uncles and Dad never talked to me about their experiences except for the funny things that happened to them. After I got back from Afghanistan in 07 My Dad told me some stuff about his service and a lot about my Grand Fathers. The conditions that they lived and fought in were truly horrendous. I can't even begin to appreciate what they went through. Now my Grand Father's generation is gone and my fathers is quickly starting to disappear. 

The last time I was home there was only 1 other WW II vet left and 3 other Korean Vets my Dad being both for a total of 2 and 4. 30 years ago when I was in Cadets there was a dozen or so WW I vets and over 200 WWII vets that would march in the November 11th Parade, and I come from a very small town in northern NB pop. less than 1300.

It is up to us to make sure they don't pass unnoticed and forgotten in to time.


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## mariomike (9 Apr 2010)

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> My Grandfather, 5 brothers of his, 6 cousins and 2 brother in-laws  signed up to fight in WW I, only he came home.



One out of fourteen survived the war. That is a staggering loss. 
"Nearly one of every ten Canadians who fought in the war did not return."
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/firstwar/canada/Canada19

For the five brothers of his who did come home, it must have been heartbreaking for their mother.
This is a story of a Canadian mother who lost five sons in WW1:
http://www.cwgc.org/education/imp_pop/family_can.htm


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## gt102 (9 Apr 2010)

A fellow I know just got chosen as 1 of 2 Canadians that submitted essays to the parliament to go over to France for this event.

I'll see if I can get a copy of said essay, I imagine it's a good read.


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## Tank Troll (9 Apr 2010)

Most of them were in the 26th bn C.E.F  on top of that they were all in the same Company. That was back when they thought it was a good idea to put men from the same town together as the figured men that grew up and lived together would fight well together. Unfortunately if there was particularly hard fighting and high casualties then they would died together also........which happened with more regularity than not.


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## Towards_the_gap (9 Apr 2010)

As my wife and youngest son are currently in CHEO for a few days, I took the oldest to the Canadian War Museum today, 'just for something to do', as we had driven 2 hours to visit wifey and son 2 and I wanted to do something else other than turn around and drive back.

Anyways, there was I expecting at best a modest discount from the entry fee, and lo and behold it's free for military personnel, and also, they were handing out $11 vouchers for food at the cafe, on account of the Vimy anniversary. A thank you to those who serve.

Only when I looked at the date did I realise why I saw a bunch of vets in legion outfits downtown on my way to the museum. Thought it was a legion conference or something.


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## mariomike (9 Apr 2010)

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> Most of them were in the 26th bn C.E.F  on top of that they were all in the same Company. That was back when they thought it was a good idea to put men from the same town together as the figured men that grew up and lived together would fight well together. Unfortunately if there was particularly hard fighting and high casualties then they would died together also........which happened with more regularity than not.



That's the way they did it back then. That's what happened to the five Sullivan brothers when the U.S.S. Juneau was torpedoed at Guadalcanal. 

It's like you say:
"The policy of drawing recruits from amongst a local population ensured that, when the Pals battalions suffered casualties, individual towns, villages, neighbourhoods, and communities back in Britain were to suffer disproportionate losses."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pals_battalion


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## Tank Troll (9 Apr 2010)

When it came to WW II My Grand Father made sure his sons were all spread out 2 in the Carlton York in different Coys, 1 in the RCHA 1 in the 8 NB Hussars 1 in a Self propelled Arty Unit out of BC, 1 was a tail gunner on a Lancaster and Dad was in the PPCLI. A couple of Cousins and a Brother in-law were in the C&Y also, and another brother in-law was with 7th Anti Tank. Even with that they all end up in Italy together most of them in 1st Canadian Div. They all came home though Grand Father didn't sleep well for almost three years.


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## mariomike (10 Apr 2010)

Glad to hear they had better luck in The Second World War. Your relative on the Lancaster certainly beat the law of averages by surviving. My uncle was on Lancasters during the war.


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## Tank Troll (10 Apr 2010)

Yeah he was pretty funny guy laughed a lot and talked to himself a lot. Dad said it had to do with being suck in the back of the bomber to many times with out being able to talk to any one.


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## pbi (10 Apr 2010)

mariomike said:
			
		

> That's the way they did it back then. That's what happened to the five Sullivan brothers when the U.S.S. Juneau was torpedoed at Guadalcanal.
> 
> It's like you say:
> "The policy of drawing recruits from amongst a local population ensured that, when the Pals battalions suffered casualties, individual towns, villages, neighbourhoods, and communities back in Britain were to suffer disproportionate losses."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pals_battalion



So...how exactly do we balance this against the often-stated idea that a great strength of  the Reserve Regimental system, which consists almost entirely of community-based units, is the sense of community, identity and solidarity that comes from being homeboys together? Is it a mistake? Or is it just something that's useful to keep a unit together when it's not on operations?

Cheers


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## pbi (10 Apr 2010)

Having got that last little rant off, now for something completely different.....

Every year I see this country remember its military history and sacrifices more and more clearly and in more significant ways. Just to name a few: the new War Museum, the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, the National Cemetery, the huge increase in attendance at; and interest in, Remembrance Day ceremonies, as well as the great demand for guest speakers at schools on that day (and not just public schools), the raft of books on the shelves about various aspects of our military history, and the outpouring of support that has been generated in the last few years.

I think we're finally growing up as a country.


Cheers


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## mariomike (10 Apr 2010)

pbi said:
			
		

> So...how exactly do we balance this against the often-stated idea that a great strength of  the Reserve Regimental system, which consists almost entirely of community-based units, is the sense of community, identity and solidarity that comes from being homeboys together? Is it a mistake? Or is it just something that's useful to keep a unit together when it's not on operations?
> Cheers



I was not referring to the reserves.

I was referring to brothers ( like the five Sullivan brothers mentioned ) who asked to serve on the same ship, or combat unit, during wartime. The idea being that no mother should loose five sons, as mentioned in Reply #2 above.
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq72-5.htm

The "Pals" battalions mentioned were not reservists. They were not created until after the start of World War One.: 
"With the introduction of conscription in January 1916, further Pals battalions were not sought. Most pal battalions were decimated by the end of 1917/ start of 1918 and most were amalgamated into other battalions to regularise battalion strength."

Cheers!


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## Tank Troll (10 Apr 2010)

It hasn't happened since WWI even local reserve units in WWII didn't take the beatings that the units in WWI took. Hopefully we will never see that kind of fighting again.


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## Old Sweat (10 Apr 2010)

The challenge with reserve units is when they mobilize, a good number of the recruits come from the local community to join their friends and neighbours already serving in the unit. In their book on Dieppe Denis and Shelagh Whittaker made mention of the aftermath of the raid on one small community near Hamilton, ON. According to them, the boys of the graduating class of 1939 from Winona High School were lost at Dieppe.

The pals battalions (and the locally recruited numbered battalions that were used to feed the CEF) and even the Sullivans could and too often did lead to tragic consequences. What may have been a source of cohesion and pride in the era of Queen Victoria's Little Wars, could devastate a community in either of the major wars of the last century. In a country like Canada with a relatively small population spread across a vast country, to recruit a rifle company in a small to medium town may well be to doom the town to tragedy. It seems to me that the authorities tended to mix recruits in the various regimental streams in the Second World War reinforcement system. Whether this was part of a grand design, or just for administrative convenience is an open question. I tend to the latter point of view, but am prepared to be proven wrong.


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## Tank Troll (10 Apr 2010)

The initial draw was local according to my Dad  the reinforcements came from were ever. When they first looked at personal only 2 of my Dad's immediate family were allowed to stay in the Carlton York. the other three were sent to different units they got to pick which is odd for back then. The Regiment picked who would stay of the 2 that did one was a sniper and the other was a platoon Sgt.

As far a WWI went and communities suffering massive losses we need to look no farther than the Royal Newfoundland Regt they were decimated twice.


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## pbi (11 Apr 2010)

Given that our population in 1939 was just under 12 million, I think it was probably inevitable that the local nature of the NPAM units mobilized in 1939 would begin to break down. The centres that these units came from just didn't have the population base to sustain combat losses for very long. At some point, replacements would be drafted in from wherever the Army could get them: we're all familiar with the grim situation in Italy that resulted in non-Infantry types like RCEME and RCA (LAA) being used as replacements in the Infantry.

The US has to face this when ARNG or USMCR units mobilize for combat, which happens regularly. A community can end up burying many of its citizens. I have heard that this was one of the main reasons that the US Govt largely avoided calling up the ARNG for Vietnam.

Cheers


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## The Bread Guy (9 Apr 2016)

Bumped with this year's Vimy Day statement:


> Today, at the Canadian National Vimy Memorial in Vimy, France, Veterans, Canadian Armed Forces members, international military representatives, dignitaries, Canadian and French citizens, and youth gathered to solemnly remember and honour the supreme effort and sacrifices of the Canadian soldiers who went into battle at Vimy Ridge on April 9, 1917.
> 
> Extensive preparation and planning were key to victory at the Battle of Vimy Ridge, where, for the first time, all four divisions of the Canadian Corps courageously worked together as one formation. Their triumph at Vimy and in the battles that followed contributed to a new and stronger sense of national identity, both for Canadians and on the international stage, earning Canada a separate signature on the Treaty of Versailles that officially ended the First World War.
> 
> At a reception following the ceremony, visitors and local dignitaries learned more about a new Visitor Education Centre currently being constructed at the Canadian National Vimy Memorial. The product of a Government of Canada partnership with the Vimy Foundation, the Centre will provide visitors to the national historic site with comprehensive and meaningful information about Canada’s contribution to the First World War, including the Battle of Vimy Ridge. The Centre is scheduled to open in April 2017 ...


This, from the Ministers:


> The Honourable Kent Hehr, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, and the Honourable Harjit S. Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, issued the following statement commemorating Vimy Ridge Day:
> 
> “Today we remember the Battle of Vimy Ridge, fought over four days beginning April 9, 1917, which many believe marked Canada’s coming of age as a nation. Of the 100,000 Canadians who fought in this First World War battle, more than 7,000 were wounded and nearly 3,600 lost their lives. Canadian bravery in the face of difficult circumstance was the hallmark of the Battle of Vimy Ridge, and has become the standard by which our Canadian Armed Forces operate today.
> 
> ...


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## Oldgateboatdriver (10 Apr 2016)

I think the Ministers should have a little talk with their press release drafter.

You either "pay the ultimate price" or "make the ultimate sacrifice".

Mixing metaphors is not the best way to honour those who did either.


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## The Bread Guy (10 Apr 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> I think the Ministers should have a little talk with their press release drafter.
> 
> You either "pay the ultimate price" or "make the ultimate sacrifice".


Lucky these things go through SO many levels of review, editing and approval - when everybody gets to comment on the writing, it's nobody's writing ...


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