# Canadian Army Compass (Suunto)



## gorf (21 May 2005)

Does anyone know where I can purchase one of these, with the tritium illumination. I have searched everywhere on the net, only to find SIMILAR compasses. On suunto's website they have almost the same ones, but are in degrees, not mils and also don't have tritium. 
I'm at the piont of almost ordering a US tritium compass but I want to make sure whether or not the Canadian ones are available. Also is there a better alternative to the US compass, assuming I can't find the Canadian one?  

                                                                               Thanks,
       
                                                                                      Geoff


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## aesop081 (21 May 2005)

Avoid tritium.  The PPCLI kit shop has a good compass in mils that you can order on-line.


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## gorf (22 May 2005)

The one on PPCLI is also tritium. 

Does anyone know if the US compass will do the same things as the Canadian one will. I want one to practice with at home. 

Also in a few weeks I will be doing my Navigation Ex. in Meaford, any hints, tips or tricks at all? 



                     Thanks,

                        Geoff


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 May 2005)

The new Suunto's have a new illumination paint on them.  You could always ask someone in QM stores where they buy them.


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## aesop081 (22 May 2005)

Gorf said:
			
		

> The one on PPCLI is also tritium.
> 
> Does anyone know if the US compass will do the same things as the Canadian one will. I want one to practice with at home.
> 
> ...



I'm holdintg the Brunton compass i bought online from the PPCLI kit shop in 2001 and it is not tritium. Wanna come and check ?


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## gorf (22 May 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> I'm holdintg the Brunton compass i bought online from the PPCLI kit shop in 2001 and it is not tritium. Wanna come and check ?




I'm not saying your lying.....I looked on the PPCLI website and they had two compasses that I saw. One was a wrist compass and the other one was a Nexus compass. Here's your proof.

http://kitshop.ppcli.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=237&osCsid=275397b798a445525de2940b10196ce8

The standard issue for the Canadian infantry soldier; a Silva Ranger with a new name.
Ideal for land navigation, using the 6400 mils system [sorry, not available in degrees], *features tritium illuminated compass needle*,  sighting notch, mirror, and declination adjustment screw, tool and lanyard.


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## Kat Stevens (22 May 2005)

Gorf said:
			
		

> Also in a few weeks I will be doing my Navigation Ex. in Meaford, any hints, tips or tricks at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your compass is always right, you are usually wrong

Kat


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## kyleg (22 May 2005)

Gorf said:
			
		

> Also in a few weeks I will be doing my Navigation Ex. in Meaford, any hints, tips or tricks at all?



Aim slightly left or right of your target. That way, since you usually end up a little off anyways, you'll KNOW that you're a little left/right of your target. This works best when your target is on a street, cause that way once you hit the street you can just follow that a little ways. Not the most tactical, but you'll always get to where you need to be.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Thompson_JM (23 May 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> The new Suunto's have a new illumination paint on them.   You could always ask someone in QM stores where they buy them.



It could be that our QM is storing them wrong but we found on our last Nav Ex (thursday) that the paint is useless.. the only way to make it illumate was to shine white light on it. more specifically the white light of my streamlight Strion for about 10-20 seconds.... removing any tactical ability on a night nav, as well as impairing ones night vision....

though like i said, it could be that the QM might have stored them improperly or the people who drew them from stores didnt do something they should have.. I honestly dont know.. 

I do know that after using the the new ones, i miss the tritium...


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## 48Highlander (23 May 2005)

Cpl Thompson said:
			
		

> It could be that our QM is storing them wrong but we found on our last Nav Ex (thursday) that the paint is useless.. the only way to make it illumate was to shine white light on it. more specifically the white light of my streamlight Strion for about 10-20 seconds.... removing any tactical ability on a night nav, as well as impairing ones night vision....
> 
> though like i said, it could be that the QM might have stored them improperly or the people who drew them from stores didnt do something they should have.. I honestly dont know..
> 
> I do know that after using the the new ones, i miss the tritium...



You're suposed to charge 'em up. Befoe you leave for your patrol, take the compass and lean a flaslight over the dial, then leave it in your hooch for 10 minutes or so.  The effect probably won't last more than 4-5 hours, but it's better than nothing.  I definitely still prefer our old radioactive compasses though.


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## gorf (23 May 2005)

The new compasses must only be issued in some places because I'm still using trituim......or so they tell me.


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## aesop081 (23 May 2005)

Gorf said:
			
		

> The new compasses must only be issued in some places because I'm still using trituim......or so they tell me.



There's someone not doing their job where you are then as ALL tritium compasses were to be removed from the system.  Can't remember exactly what year that was ( 20o2 ?).  Whe had a rather big incident in gagetown where an old tritium compass was turned in with a batch of new ones and the base RADSO had a gigantic hissy fit.  Someone had lost their brand new compass on cours and decided to turn in one of the old tritium ones thinking no one would notice.......


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## Thompson_JM (25 May 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> You're suposed to charge 'em up. Befoe you leave for your patrol, take the compass and lean a flaslight over the dial, then leave it in your hooch for 10 minutes or so.   The effect probably won't last more than 4-5 hours, but it's better than nothing.   I definitely still prefer our old radioactive compasses though.



Like i said, we did end up charging them with our flashlight... but even a 7500 candlepower light illuminateing the bugge for abd 30-45 seconds, would only give us about 5 maybe 10 minutes of usefull "glowing" illumination.  thankfully it was just a training night and we were only there to refresh our nav skills... kinda.. 

had it been tactical we would have had a little more difficulty getting the darned things to work.


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## qjdb (26 May 2005)

A handy little trick for charging up the glow-in-the-dark material, that doesn't create such a large light signature, is to keep the compass lid closed, hold the flashlight to the bottom, turn it on, and shine it through the base.  This way, it reflects off the mirror and gets all parts of the glow-in-the-dark stuff evenly, you don't have parts that are not illuminated, etc.

Plus, if you cup it in your hands, you will release very little 'light pollution'

Cheers

Quentin


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## chrisf (28 May 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> There's someone not doing their job where you are then as ALL tritium compasses were to be removed from the system.   Can't remember exactly what year that was ( 20o2 ?).   Whe had a rather big incident in gagetown where an old tritium compass was turned in with a batch of new ones and the base RADSO had a gigantic hissy fit.   Someone had lost their brand new compass on cours and decided to turn in one of the old tritium ones thinking no one would notice.......



I've never used anything *but* the suntoo (SP?) tritium compasses... in various places... *since after* 2002...

While yes, it does emit alpah particles, is the *amount* of tritium in the compasses, or in the optical sights, anything to *actually* beconcerned about? Or should I be more afraid of radon gas in my basement?


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## TCBF (28 May 2005)

"While yes, it does emit alpah particles, is the *amount* of tritium in the compasses, or in the optical sights, anything to *actually* beconcerned about? Or should I be more afraid of radon gas in my basement?"

- What the heck are you doing using a compass in your basement?  Are the washer and dryer that far apart?  You Siggies crack me up...

 ;D

Tom


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## Goober (28 May 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> There's someone not doing their job where you are then as ALL tritium compasses were to be removed from the system.   Can't remember exactly what year that was ( 20o2 ?).   Whe had a rather big incident in gagetown where an old tritium compass was turned in with a batch of new ones and the base RADSO had a gigantic hissy fit.   Someone had lost their brand new compass on cours and decided to turn in one of the old tritium ones thinking no one would notice.......



Then why are all the compasses issued to SQ students at Gagetown tritium compasses?


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## Grunt (29 May 2005)

I recommend a Silva Ranger with mils.


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## Thompson_JM (29 May 2005)

qjdb said:
			
		

> A handy little trick for charging up the glow-in-the-dark material, that doesn't create such a large light signature, is to keep the compass lid closed, hold the flashlight to the bottom, turn it on, and shine it through the base.   This way, it reflects off the mirror and gets all parts of the glow-in-the-dark stuff evenly, you don't have parts that are not illuminated, etc.
> 
> Plus, if you cup it in your hands, you will release very little 'light pollution'
> 
> ...




I was doing that.... regardless of the trick, a 7500 candlepower flashlight is gonna be bright no matter what you try...  ;D
keep in mind that the flashlight I was using to charge it up is roughly on par with the police issue stingers. 
the Mag Light that my Sec comander was using wasnt having a very good effect on the compass so we went to something stronger. 

anyways, regardless, i still miss the tritium......


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## Fusaki (29 May 2005)

I bought my Suunto compass at a place called "Travel Europe" in downtown toronto. The store is right across the street from the Mountain Equipment Co-Op (on King St, I believe). That said, I wouldn't know the first thing about radioactive stuff.



> Also in a few weeks I will be doing my Navigation Ex. in Meaford, any hints, tips or tricks at all?



Sometimes people write the bearings and distances to their next waypoints on their compass mirror. Some guys agree with this practice and some don't. If you do, the best way to remove permanant marker on your mirror is to tap cigarette ash on it and rub it around, then rinse it off. This also works on laminated maps. Training doesn't stop when it rains, so don't be afraid to use permanent marker.

As for the actual NAV itself, get used to reading landmarks. If you can look at your map and see that from point A to point B you'll cross a road at 150m and pass some ruins (that are all over the place in Meaford) on your right hand side at 300m you'll build confidance in yourself and in your map and compass. If you can cut up a 400m leg into 2 or 3 150m "mini-legs" you're golden. Just be aware the blacktracks and forests are not often the best landmarks. Even if your map is only a few years old, the training area is always changing.

Also, if your instructor will let you, you can "handrail" roads and other landmarks. Lets say you look at your map and notice a crossroads 100m from your end point. Shoot a bearing to the road and follow alongside it untill you reach that crossroads, then shoot a bearing for that last 100m off into the bush. It may not be the most direct route, but its probably the easiest. Why work hard when you can work smart?

The hardest part of Land Nav is making the 2D-bird's-eye-view map in your hands into a 3D-man's-eye-view mental image. Look at the contours and say "that hill is about twice as high as that hill and these three hills are these ones I see to my front". Try and get a feel for what your line of sight should be from the map, then compare it to what you actually see around you. Try to concentrate less on your bearing and more on how your map compares to the actual ground.

Hope this helps.


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## aesop081 (29 May 2005)

Goober said:
			
		

> Then why are all the compasses issued to SQ students at Gagetown tritium compasses?



Like i said.......tritium compasses were no longer to be issued ( at least in gagetown).  I went trough the whole fiasco at MSA in Gagetown over this when someone mixed one tritium compass with the newer ones.  That was not a pleasant experience.  At any rate say and beleive what you want, i had severly pissed people with paperwork flying in my face .......tritium compasses were OUT......i'm  not getting this as second hand info !!  But hey, things change daily so....


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## Northern Touch (29 May 2005)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> As for the actual NAV itself, get used to reading landmarks. If you can look at your map and see that from point A to point B you'll cross a road at 150m and pass some ruins (that are all over the place in Meaford) on your right hand side at 300m you'll build confidance in yourself and in your map and compass. If you can cut up a 400m leg into 2 or 3 150m "mini-legs" you're golden. Just be aware the blacktracks and forests are not often the best landmarks. *Even if your map is only a few years old, the training area is always changing.
> *



I can personally attest to that, since the 1990 Meaford map shows roads, which are now blacktracks, and shows blacktracks, which are now actually roads, it can really play tricks on your mind.  Especially when your instructor wonders where the fuck your going, because he KNOWS its a road now, and your silly ass is looking for a blacktrack which just aint there, and wondering where the hell the road came from...at night.


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## chrisf (29 May 2005)

gravyboat said:
			
		

> What amount of radiation is safe? Especially if it's a little particle sitting in your lung or digestive tract.



I don't know what amount is safe, that's why I asked, admitedly, none is preferable, but there are plenty of radiation hazards floating around in our every day lives  which are considered "acceptable"... because I've been told varying things about the danger levels of the Tritium used in the scopes and compasses... both the official stance and else... I mean, if there's a safer alternative to tritium, then I'm all for it of course, but there's also an acceptable level of risk if said level of risk is minimal...

The reason I ask is because after looking it up, Tritium does not in-fact release alpha particles, but instead weaker beta particles, and indeed, tritium is one of the weakest radio active particles, with a relatively short half-life... if you're looking for some information, read the EPA website http://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclides/tritium.htm

On the replacement compasses, do they glow as well as tritium without the hazard? If so, then by all means, bring on the new compasses


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## aesop081 (29 May 2005)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> On the replacement compasses, do they glow as well as tritium without the hazard? If so, then by all means, bring on the new compasses



I have a tritium-free one and i have never had any problems at night with it


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## 1feral1 (29 May 2005)

The GTLS used in these compasses is safe, and if broken open indoors, the drill is open the windows for 15 mins and leave the room. And outside there is no drill as far as I know. Its a lower than low radhzard. 

I don't see what the panic is about GTLS, they are even in your ELCANs, and US issue watches (which are made in Canada BTW), plus numerous Arty and Mortar eqpt too.

Sounds like some pencil necked safety geek is going a bit to anal over it all.

Anyways, I gotta get to the Unit, its already just after 0600 here on a cool autumn Monday morning. Enjoy your springtime Sunday afternoon.

Cheers,

WEs


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## chrisf (30 May 2005)

I have no problem with people being anal with regards to safety, all for it in fact... perhaps you can give us a definitive answer then? Are tritium compasses supposed to be removed from the system? And does the amount of tritium present in a single compass pose an actual health risk to it's user?


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## sguido (15 Jun 2005)

Gorf said:
			
		

> *snip*
> 
> Also in a few weeks I will be doing my Navigation Ex. in Meaford, any hints, tips or tricks at all?
> 
> *snip*



For night ops, use a yellow highlighter to highlight your route (or anything else you'd like to read clearly); when viewed under a blue filtered flashlight, you can see it quite clearly.  As a plus, the blue light will not totally screw up your night vision, and as a double plus, it works to 'charge' luminous markings better than 'white' light does.

Give it a try before you complain...


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## Fusaki (19 Jun 2005)

> Give it a try before you complain...



No, don't give it a try.

How do you expect to see the blue grid squares and numbers at night, through a blue filtered flashlight? Believe it or not, those are _essential_ to land navigation. On that note, don't use a green filter either, because you won't see treelines.


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## 48Highlander (19 Jun 2005)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> No, don't give it a try.
> 
> How do you expect to see the blue grid squares and numbers at night, through a blue filtered flashlight? Believe it or not, those are _essential_ to land navigation. On that note, don't use a green filter either, because you won't see treelines.



And don't use the red one unless you want to walk into an impact zone 

Solution?  Carry a multi-LED flashlight so you can switch betwee different collors with the flick of a finger.


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Jun 2005)

Just take something pointy, like the end of your knife, and drill a small hole in the centre of any of your coloured lenses. The amount of white light that escapes is negligable, but will allow you to see ALL the features on your map, when held close.

The other option is for everyone to use a different coloured lens. When they are all shone at the same spot on the map, they blend and allow the full spectrum of colours to show.

Here endeth the lesson.


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## aesop081 (19 Jun 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Just take something pointy, like the end of your knife, and drill a small hole in the centre of any of your coloured lenses. The amount of white light that escapes is negligable, but will allow you to see ALL the features on your map, when held close.
> 
> The other option is for everyone to use a different coloured lens. When they are all shone at the same spot on the map, they blend and allow the full spectrum of colours to show.
> 
> Here endeth the lesson.



Exactly ! I've never felt the need to buy a gucci flashlight.  A good old right-angled flishlight with a red filter is all i ever needed.  Never wandered into an impact zone either.  I guess a poor craftsman blames his tools  ;D


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## Dale Turner (20 Jun 2005)

Sounds like the compass thread turned into a flashlight thread. But in regards to the safety of the tritium compasses, unless your rubbing the needle all over yourself it shouldn't be too much of a health risk. I'm sure the amount emissions from the MLVW that gets you to your starting point are more dangerous. 

And besides if the compass face is broken enough to let tritium particles out that compass is now junk and shouldn't be used anymore anyway.


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## sguido (20 Jun 2005)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> No, don't give it a try.
> 
> How do you expect to see the blue grid squares and numbers at night, through a blue filtered flashlight? Believe it or not, those are _essential_ to land navigation. On that note, don't use a green filter either, because you won't see treelines.



You are aware that different shades of blue _will_ show up under blue filtered light, right?

Try it.  If it does not work for you, post back explaining why, what you can't see, the type of map & light...relevant info.  I'd rather help you find a way to make the tip work than have a non constructive flame war...


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## c4th (20 Jun 2005)

Gorf said:
			
		

> Also in a few weeks I will be doing my Navigation Ex. in Meaford, any hints, tips or tricks at all?



Yup, three:

1.  Know your pace
2.  Bearing NOT back-bearing
3.  Aim off.

Take it easy.  If you panic you will be lost.


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## aesop081 (20 Jun 2005)

The compass is RIGHT,

You are ....WRONG !!


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## 48Highlander (20 Jun 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Exactly ! I've never felt the need to buy a gucci flashlight.   A good old right-angled flishlight with a red filter is all i ever needed.   Never wandered into an impact zone either.   I guess a poor craftsman blames his tools   ;D



ohhh, why you....

ofcourse you never wandered into an impact zone.  there aren't too many impact zones in the sky!  and how the hell could you flyboys get lost in the first place; you've got enough electronics around you to make you sterile, I should hope that at least one of those gadgets will keep you on course 

so alright, I've never wandered into an impact zone either, but I HAVE accidentaly crossed roads which I could have avoided or at least planned for if I'd been using a blue light.  Granted, I learned the poke-a-hole-in-the-filter trick on my leadership course which helped, but I still prefer using blue light.


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## c4th (20 Jun 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> Granted, I learned the poke-a-hole-in-the-filter trick on my leadership course which helped,



Probably learned about quick map studies and detailed map studies too.


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## aesop081 (20 Jun 2005)

c4th said:
			
		

> Probably learned about quick map studies and detailed map studies too.



I was about to say that !!



			
				48Highlander said:
			
		

> ohhh, why you....
> 
> ofcourse you never wandered into an impact zone.   there aren't too many impact zones in the sky!   and how the hell could you flyboys get lost in the first place; you've got enough electronics around you to make you sterile, I should hope that at least one of those gadgets will keep you on course
> 
> so alright, I've never wandered into an impact zone either, but I HAVE accidentaly crossed roads which I could have avoided or at least planned for if I'd been using a blue light.   Granted, I learned the poke-a-hole-in-the-filter trick on my leadership course which helped, but I still prefer using blue light.



No too many impact areas in the sky....but there were alot of them in petawawa, wainwright, suffield and gagetown, places i was booting around during my 11 years as a sapper.


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## 48Highlander (20 Jun 2005)

Dammit   Allright, I know when I've been beaten.

On the other hand....eh, if you did your quic/detailed map study and plotted your routes then you should have memorized all your bearings and distances too, in which case you won't need to see the gridlines either.  So might as well use the blue light, right? 

Eh, in the end it just comes down to personal preference.


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## c4th (20 Jun 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> No too many impact areas in the sky....



Maybe not, but I don't think you need an advanced indirect fire course to know that it is probably a good idea to know what ground you are flying over.   It would be damn inconvenient to interfere with falling rounds.


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## aesop081 (20 Jun 2005)

c4th said:
			
		

> Maybe not, but I don't think you need an advanced indirect fire course to know that it is probably a good idea to know what ground you are flying over.   It would be damn inconvenient to interfere with falling rounds.



Thats the navigator's job.......but i do still carry a map.  Although you would be kinda hard pressed to find droping artillery rounds in the middle of the atlantic !!  Mind you we have restricted areas and advisory areas to worry about.

Anyways...back to compasses and those who don't know how to use them  ;D


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## c4th (20 Jun 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> quic/detailed map study and plotted your routes then you should have memorized all your bearings and distances too, in which case you won't need to see the gridlines either.   So might as well use the blue light, right?



Sure, in that case use white light.


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## Fusaki (23 Jun 2005)

> if you did your quic/detailed map study and plotted your routes then you should have memorized all your bearings and distances too, in which case you won't need to see the gridlines either.  So might as well use the blue light, right?



If you're going to plan along those lines, you'd might as well not carry your map, either.  

The fact of the matter is that sh-- happens. Saying "I wont need to see my gridlines because I have my bearing and distance" is like saying "I only need 3 mags because we're only expecting light resistance". Everyone makes mistakes, so you'd might as well expect to re-plot your route during a nav-check on the fly. I'll admit that it might be possible to see your blue grid lines through a different shaded blue lense, but it can't be as fast or as effective as using a red lense with a hole in it. Especially when you're gone any amount of time without sleep. So why mess around?

As for red impact zones, they're usually pretty big. Unless you're totally right outv'er you'll know they're in your area well in advance. Its like finding yourself in front of a lake and saying "Oh shi--!! where did this come from?!?!" :


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