# Enrollment with scars [Merged]



## bohr

As a child, I was physically abused by my parents. As a result, I have numerous scars on both my forearms (*Not* self inflicted). My mental history is clean. 

Could this prevent me from enlisting?


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## Barmecide

I had a few questionable scars.
Wasn't a problem for me.

Just be upfront about them, when you do your physical the med tech will notice them.


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## MedTechStudent

bohr said:
			
		

> Could this prevent me from enlisting?



Nope.

Don't stress about it.  I know a few people who will go unnamed that have lots of visible scars that *are* self-inflicted and the army doesn't seam to mind.  Or notice.


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## mariomike

MedKAWD said:
			
		

> I know a few people who will go unnamed that have lots of visible scars that *are* self-inflicted and the army doesn't seam to mind.



Seam?  ;D

Dueling scars used to be fashionable, in some military circles:
http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Dueling_Scar

Tom Berenger had a nasty one in "Platoon".


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## MedTechStudent

mariomike said:
			
		

> Seam?  ;D



**sigh**  Seem.


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## medicineman

MedKAWD said:
			
		

> Nope.
> 
> Don't stress about it.  I know a few people who will go unnamed that have lots of visible scars that *are* self-inflicted and the army doesn't seam to mind.  Or notice.



We don't mind - but I certainly notice when I do a physical and I ask about all scars - self inflicted ones especially that aren't accounted for in the mental health or physical trauma questions.  We don't mind them being there - why they're there is another story.

MM


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## Armymedic

I had an interesting child in that I was injured enough to repeatedly require 10+ sutures, and upon enrollment actually used a few scars as my personal identifying characteristics.

Scars are not a problem, as long as they are not self inflicted.


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## Cerulean_Sky

Barmecide said:
			
		

> I had a few questionable scars.
> Wasn't a problem for me.
> 
> Just be upfront about them, when you do your physical the med tech will notice them.



Let's say the medtech and the doctor don't notice them, and you're accepted into the forces.

Is there any other examination etc. where they might be noticed? And if they are noticed, are you automatically thrown out?


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## 211RadOp

Unless things have changed, you will do your medical only wearing a pair of shorts (if you are male, not sure about females) and your scars will be noticed.


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## George Wallace

However, on you forms for your ID Card, you are supposed to list all your Scars and Tattoos.  

So, along with the previous posts, you are asked about scars, and tattoos, at various interviews (Medical, security, etc.) throughout your CF career.


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## PMedMoe

George Wallace said:
			
		

> However, on you forms for your ID Card, you are supposed to list all your Scars and Tattoos.



They don't seem to care much about that anymore.  When I got my second tattoo, I called the ID Sect to let them know and they weren't really interested.  I didn't bother for the third one.


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## medicineman

Cerulean_Sky said:
			
		

> Let's say you're careful so the medtech and the doctor don't notice them, and you're accepted into the forces.
> 
> Is there any other examination etc. where they might be noticed? And if they are noticed, are you automatically thrown out?



Sounds like you have something to hide - if you lie about stuff that's medically related and we find out later (oddly enough, we usually do), it's an irregular enrollment and you could be charged and shown the door.

Do you have something to hide?

MM


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## George Wallace

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> They don't seem to care much about that anymore.  When I got my second tattoo, I called the ID Sect to let them know and they weren't really interested.  I didn't bother for the third one.



Not so much when you renew your ID, but usually more so when you get your first one.


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## PMedMoe

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Not so much when you renew your ID, but usually more so when you get your first one.



Possibly. 

I also agree with medicineman's statement, which was my first thought on reading the post.  "What do you have to hide?"   ???


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## Cerulean_Sky

medicineman said:
			
		

> Sounds like you have something to hide - if you lie about stuff that's medically related and we find out later (oddly enough, we usually do), it's an irregular enrollment and you could be charged and shown the door.
> 
> Do you have something to hide?
> 
> MM



Yes and no. I really can't answer that without going into more detail than I'd be comfortable doing on a public board.

It's nothing that would medically pose a threat to or inconvenience anyone in the Forces, nor anything that would interfere with my ability to perform any duties.


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## medicineman

Just make sure you bring it up with your medical staff on your medical - hate for badness to happen because you caught yourself in a lie.

MM


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## Robbie4296

This should be fun, I was a butcher for 10years(worked in slaughterhouse for 5 of them) got some nice ones on hands, wrist and even on the back of the arm!! Allways wear protective gear!!!!!!!


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## mariomike

Robbie4296 said:
			
		

> This should be fun, I was a butcher for 10years(worked in slaughterhouse for 5 of them) got some nice ones on hands, wrist and even on the back of the arm!! Allways wear protective gear!!!!!!!



Hey Robbie, I have a lot of respect for workers in that industry. I am not surprised that you have scars. It's a very dangerous job. I was sent into the Stockyards ( Keele and St. Clair ) many times before they shut it down in the 1990's. It was the biggest slaughterhouse in Canada.  
Lots of lacerations. Power saws, augers, knife blades. Amputations too. Guys getting their arms caught in the pulling machines, conveyor belts and meat grinders. Even the occasional decapitation. Crushing trauma, getting hit and run over by forklifts, trucks, even slow-moving trains. Sides of cattle falling on people. Swinging meat-hanging hooks hitting them in the face or eye. It was a frigging blood bath. Not just for the animals. Machines I don't know the names of. They called us in for caustic chemical injuries too. Fuel burns.  They were inhaling chlorine, bleach and amonia, all mixed in with animal waste and disease. Lots of hot solutions in tanks. The toxic waste must have been incredible.
I never saw a stampede in there, but was told they happen. 
I don't think I ever saw them slow the line down for anyone, unless they were trapped. There wasn't much publicity either. You couldn't get a drink in that area. They knew from experience that the workers would drink themselves into oblivion. It was only after they shut the slaughterhouse down that the local residents finally voted "wet".
I was in the poultry place too, but it looked a lot safer because it was highly mechanized, and the birds were so much smaller. 
There is still an abattoir on Niagara St., which is very close to where I used to work. Depending on which way the wind was blowing, the stench was pretty bad. But, like so many things, you get used to it.


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## Robbie4296

Oh yah good old Keele and St clair you must be talking about Canada Packers, I worked at St Helens, and another place across the street, cant remember the name, both beef houses, I worked lots on the boning lines very fast paced, then headed down to the pork plant Quality,which is the one down on Niagara st and Tecsumseth I believe 16000 kills a day, very busy I was.
When I first moved to Alberta I worked the Kill Floor at a Pork plant just outside St.Albert, eventually the cold/hot and the noise got to me and I figured 5years of that crap was enough so studied real hard and became a Electrician, much cleaner, and dont drink as much lol.
Chicken plants are pretty disgusting I think, never wanted to work in them lol.


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## McD

Ugh theres an area by  the Saddledome that makes be want to barf still.

As for scars nothing you can do. I never thought of the mild stretch marks on my shoulders from lifting in college and they were seen. I think , anyone correct me, they are for ID purposes. Now if you had "HATE" carved into you or a symbol of the such, Im sure it would raise further investigation. Much like tattoos would, no? 

All in all the medical staff will see them and note it. Talking to them will likely get you the answers you seek. Just be forthcoming and honest. Good Luck


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## medicineman

Yes, they are for ID purposes, but can also say something about a person's physical and or mental health over the years.  I've had people try to make light of very major surgical scars during their enrollment medicals - the "nothing really" turns into "well I had this and that removed"...first enrollment medical I did, fellow had a trauma laparotomy done for a vehicle crash and told me it was nothing really, and eventually admitted to having body bits removed.  Like Dr House says, everybody lies.  People also like to hide scars from self harm - again, something that's pretty important to know about as it's a sign of mental health issues.  Hence the first words out of my mouth were essentially "what are yout trying to hide?".

MM


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## Cerulean_Sky

My issue is that I had the physical and they were already overlooked.

I'd feel kinda stupid going in just to point them out.


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## Robbie4296

trauma laparotomy? isn't that something to do with the ab area? I had my apendix rupture 2 years ago had it removed ofcourse big scar, but glad that "body bit" is gone, worst pain I have ever felt!!!!! but Iam sure once the  doctor see's it he will know exactly what the scar is from, and feel great to this day!


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## medicineman

Yes - a big zipper from chest to pubic bone, and he had a bit more than the appendix out.

MM


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## McD

medicineman said:
			
		

> Yes, they are for ID purposes, but can also say something about a person's physical and or mental health over the years.  I've had people try to make light of very major surgical scars during their enrollment medicals - the "nothing really" turns into "well I had this and that removed"...first enrollment medical I did, fellow had a trauma laparotomy done for a vehicle crash and told me it was nothing really, and eventually admitted to having body bits removed.  Like Dr House says, everybody lies.  People also like to hide scars from self harm - again, something that's pretty important to know about as it's a sign of mental health issues.  Hence the first words out of my mouth were essentially "what are yout trying to hide?".
> 
> MM



 True. To be honest was nervous to touch on that.


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## Robbie4296

medicineman said:
			
		

> Yes - a big zipper from chest to pubic bone, and he had a bit more than the appendix out.
> 
> MM




OOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


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## McD

Robbie4296 said:
			
		

> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!



"Nahhh thats nothing Doc check out my corning wear cheek bones" haha


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## REDinstaller

Well I guess I'll go put my RP on Stress leave declaring my vasectomy scar, and my sunkist tatoo. >


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## Robbie4296

McD said:
			
		

> Ugh theres an area by  the Saddledome that makes be want to barf still.
> 
> As for scars nothing you can do. I never thought of the mild stretch marks on my shoulders from lifting in college and they were seen. I think , anyone correct me, they are for ID purposes. Now if you had "HATE" carved into you or a symbol of the such, Im sure it would raise further investigation. Much like tattoos would, no?
> 
> All in all the medical staff will see them and note it. Talking to them will likely get you the answers you seek. Just be forthcoming and honest. Good Luck



Yes, honesty is the best policy, nothing to hide here, all work related, no work claims though proving it but Iam sure it wont get that far, and if it does, well I might have to just explain the "real" work ethic's of working in a slaughterhouse "IF YOUR NOT CUT TO THE BONE, STAY OFF THE PHONE" the meaning of this is, suck it up and band-aid it and if it's deeper, thats what Krazy glue is for LOL, and vodka in your locker!


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## medicineman

Robbie4296 said:
			
		

> ... thats what Krazy glue is for LOL, and vodka in your locker!



And people wonder why they gut cut up  :.


MM


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## mariomike

Robbie4296 said:
			
		

> Yes, honesty is the best policy, nothing to hide here, all work related, no work claims though proving it but Iam sure it wont get that far, and if it does, well I might have to just explain the "real" work ethic's of working in a slaughterhouse "IF YOUR NOT CUT TO THE BONE, STAY OFF THE PHONE" the meaning of this is, suck it up and band-aid it and if it's deeper, thats what Krazy glue is for LOL, and vodka in your locker!



"If you're not bleeding, you aren't working?" 
It's very warm in the kill room with all the fresh blood. Even though the chill room is cold, the workers are cutting so fast some of them are sweating. I think the vodka in the locker may have been because LCBO refused to issue a liquor licence anywhere near the Junction Stockyards.  
Do you remember New York Pork on St. Clair, Robbie?
http://www.blogto.com/city/2009/12/the_charred_remains_of_the_new_york_pork_slaughterhouse/
This was the aftermath of the fire at New York Pork. Viewer discretion advised:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigdaddyhame/sets/72157594369883444/show/

Most have now moved out of town, but the one at Niagara St. is still there. I worked just around the corner from it.:
"Condo residents face foul smell from slaughterhouse":
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/07/02/condo-residents-face-foul-smell-from-slaughterhouse.aspx

Regarding worker safety. I think the companies and unions did the best they could. It just happens to be a difficult and dangerous industry. I knew guys who used to work there, they said it was a good job. But, times have changed:
"Work in a slaughterhouse has changed enormously in the last 25 years. It's always been a difficult job. It's always been a dangerous job. But up until recently, this was a job that had good pay, had good benefits, and you had a very stable work force. In the early 1970s, meatpacking had one of the lowest turnover rates of any industrial job in America. It was like being an autoworker.
Then they cut wages, they cut benefits, broke unions. And now it has one of the highest turnover rates of any industrial job. 
The people who are working in these plants should be well trained and well paid, and it should be a stable work force. I think that would have a big impact on the safety of the food we eat."


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## McD

Thats an eye opener to me as I just figured that it would have to be a well paid job to keep people in it. Nothing glamorous about it at all.


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## Robbie4296

Do I ever remember NY pork worked there for maybe 5 hrs, heard rumours the were almost bankrupt 5 times, that was before the fire I think, I believe it was right on the corner and where they brought in the hogs was right up next to peoples back yards, odd place, but that whole area was processing central!! But yes t-shirts in the kill floor and long blue cooler coats on the boning line, and don't forget the bump caps hahaha. 
Yes your right fairly decent job at Quality Meat Packers, union IBEW 175/633 spent 2 years their, actually my employee I.D. was 4296 pretty odd I still use it. 
I will check out those links.


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## Frozen

It'll only become a issue if you make it one.   Forget about it.


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## REDinstaller

Hard to forget about how you got a scar, each have their own story to tell.


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## Sapplicant

My friend, I have many scars on my arm, most of which *ARE* self-inflicted. It's an unfortunate consequence of past circumstances, all during my teen years, most of which I had no control over (or clear memory of. Read my personal story, Hell and Back, for a better understanding). I was completely honest and up-front with the medic, and they continued with the process. Oddly enough, however, I recieved a letter from the RMO stating that due to a childhood ADHD diagnosis, I was unfit. Of course, I'm fighting it and doing my damnedest to prove that I'm a suitable candidate for enrollment. My past is where it belongs, behind me. The only shame in falling down, is not getting back up. When I fell, I had no one to catch me, and I hit pretty effing hard. But, 7 years later, I'm still here, I'm doing better than anyone could've ever imagined, and I will continue fighting tooth and nail to start my career/new life. It's really not an issue in my mind, and if anything, I'd like to think that it shows character, devotion, and resolve to be that honest, not only with the medic, but myself as well. 


Any thoughts?


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## Sparkplugs

Just from my side of the picture, self-inflicted scars may not keep you out of the forces either.  But, they probably will ask you some extra questions, perhaps even send you for a psych evaluation -- they did for me.  It was easy.  They saw the scars, asked what they were about, I told them the truth, they asked me for my past medical records, and an evaluation.  They discovered that my past issues have been dealt with, and here I am, 4 years in.  Mind you, my scars were already 10 years old when I joined, so I have my doubts on what would happen if someone showed up with armfuls of fresh ones.  

Point of this story?  Don't lie about stuff like this.  If you're healthy enough, mentally and physically, you'll get in.  If not, well, maybe you still have some work to do before you can try again.  It took me a few years and a lot of work to get myself into a 'happy place', but I made it, and I'm so, so happy I chose the CF.  Honestly, best decision I ever made.

Any questions can be directed to me by PM.  I'm not proud of every part of my past, but I'm pretty open about it, as far as stuff like this goes, so feel free.

**edited for clarity and my crappy spelling.   ;D


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## Sapplicant

Sparkplugs said:
			
		

> Mind you, my scars were already 10 years old when I joined




Really? Mine are only 8 years old... looks like I might have to wait another 2 years if my application ends up being anything like yours. At least I'll be enlisted in time to see the world end ;D


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## last_minute

10 year or 8 year old scars, I don't think it matters how old.
They don't really care about them as long as it's no longer and issue. 
(unless you carved HATE or DEATH into your arms and face)

Personally my arms have seen better days, the scars are only about a year and a half old and I've been accepted into the Canadian military.

So when they said they're finding you unfit because of your ADHD diagnosis, it's probably just that. Don't over think it.
Just concentrate on the fighting the ADHD unfit status and forget about the scars.

Good luck Sapplicant.


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## Staygold445

Hello,

First and foremost, I want to say that these scars are not from cutting myself or from depression. I had some acne on my back during my teenage years and I picked on them which later left scars/black spots. They aren't really noticeable unless you are really close to me.

Moreover, I have some small circular-like scars on both arms, and on my upper thighs. This is from allergies for when I was taking medication because of my tooth hurting.

I did go through a depression phase, but that was because I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school and all these scars/blackspots on my body. They were also on my face because I also had acne on my face, which I picked on. I want to add that I was 17-18 at this time.

I have already taken initiative on my scars/blackspots on my face by taking medications from a dermatologist and planning on laser medications later on this year.

My question is will I be disqualified because of these self-inflicted scars? 

These scars were not inflicted because of depression or a hatred to myself, but more so of stupidity and itchiness.


Thanks!

MB


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## George Wallace

These are questions best asked during your Medical, of a qualified person; not on the internet.  Personally, your scars are a non-issue, if as you say due to your scratching scabs that itched.  Many people have such scars.  However, you made mention of other issues that may be of concern to the Medical personnel who may conduct your Medical and Interview.  They may also be non-issues as well, but again, let the professionals judge, not some anonymous internet personality.


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## hankel

Hello,

First and foremost, I want to say that these scars are not from cutting myself or from depression. I had some acne on my back during my teenage years and I picked on them which later left scars/black spots. They aren't really noticeable unless you are really close to me.

Moreover, I have some small circular-like scars on both arms, and on my upper thighs. This is from allergies for when I was taking medication because of my tooth hurting.

I did go through a depression phase, but that was because I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school and all these scars/blackspots on my body. They were also on my face because I also had acne on my face, which I picked on. I want to add that I was 17-18 at this time.

I have already taken initiative on my scars/blackspots on my face by taking medications from a dermatologist and planning on laser medications later on this year.

My question is will I be disqualified because of these self-inflicted scars? 

These scars were not inflicted because of depression or a hatred to myself, but more so of stupidity and itchiness.


Thanks!


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## mariomike

See Original post. June 03, 2012


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## BeyondTheNow

Staygold445 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> First and foremost, I want to say that these scars are not from cutting myself or from depression. I had some acne on my back during my teenage years and I picked on them which later left scars/black spots. They aren't really noticeable unless you are really close to me.
> 
> Moreover, I have some small circular-like scars on both arms, and on my upper thighs. This is from allergies for when I was taking medication because of my tooth hurting.
> 
> I did go through a depression phase, but that was because I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school and all these scars/blackspots on my body. They were also on my face because I also had acne on my face, which I picked on. I want to add that I was 17-18 at this time.
> 
> I have already taken initiative on my scars/blackspots on my face by taking medications from a dermatologist and planning on laser medications later on this year.
> 
> My question is will I be disqualified because of these self-inflicted scars?
> 
> These scars were not inflicted because of depression or a hatred to myself, but more so of stupidity and itchiness.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> MB





			
				hankel said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> First and foremost, I want to say that these scars are not from cutting myself or from depression. I had some acne on my back during my teenage years and I picked on them which later left scars/black spots. They aren't really noticeable unless you are really close to me.
> 
> Moreover, I have some small circular-like scars on both arms, and on my upper thighs. This is from allergies for when I was taking medication because of my tooth hurting.
> 
> I did go through a depression phase, but that was because I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school and all these scars/blackspots on my body. They were also on my face because I also had acne on my face, which I picked on. I want to add that I was 17-18 at this time.
> 
> I have already taken initiative on my scars/blackspots on my face by taking medications from a dermatologist and planning on laser medications later on this year.
> 
> My question is will I be disqualified because of these self-inflicted scars?
> 
> These scars were not inflicted because of depression or a hatred to myself, but more so of stupidity and itchiness.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



If you haven’t gained any sort of insight or information into any questions you have in the last approximately 7 years, simply decide whether or not you want to apply, then apply. 

When you get to the medical phase of the hiring process, going by the information you’ve provided, you may or may not be asked about the marks and/or scars you’ve described. (Many common skin ailments, marks, abrasions, scars etc are easily recognized.) The explanations you give will be recorded in your file and it’ll be evaluated together with the rest of the stages of your hiring process to decide whether you’re a suitable candidate or not. No one here can answer your questions definitively one way or the other.


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