# Can someone help me?



## Tweed (29 Mar 2006)

_Hello to whoever is viewing this topic. In my corp, there is a total lack of respect for rank.. dress and other standereds, especially there is a lack of discipline. Now, I've only been in the corp since the 2ND of November 2005, but having a family that's always had a part of the Military, i know a bit about the Standereds. I know I'm new, but our privates act like idiots at times...well most of the time. The cadets don't care about appearance.. i aren't one of those cadets that take it hard core, trying to be a little wannabe, and act all cocky, but i still believe in a good solid appearance.., what should i do, to try and help my RSM and the higher chain of command out, there always asking for tips, they try the best they but, to no avail, i even had my SGT say he didn't think he could take it anymore.


Well, hopefully someone can give me a few tips
 - Tweed 

P.S Why do Cadets polish there combats? i thought you only blacken them_


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## Roy Harding (29 Mar 2006)

Tweed said:
			
		

> _Hello to whoever is viewing this topic. In my corp, there is a total lack of respect for rank.. dress and other standereds, especially there is a lack of discipline. Now, I've only been in the corp since the 2ND of November 2005, but having a family that's always had a part of the Military, i know a bit about the Standereds. I know I'm new, but our privates act like idiots at times...well most of the time. The cadets don't care about appearance.. i aren't one of those cadets that take it hard core, trying to be a little wannabe, and act all cocky, but i still believe in a good solid appearance.., what should i do, to try and help my RSM and the higher chain of command out, there always asking for tips, they try the best they but, to no avail, i even had my SGT say he didn't think he could take it anymore.
> 
> 
> Well, hopefully someone can give me a few tips
> ...


_

I have two sons who were in Cadets (one in Air Cadets, the other in Sea Cadets), both rose to Cadet Sr NCO ranks, and both came across the problems you outlined above.  Both, like you, were children of a military family and knew that things were "not right".

They approached the problem first through the Chain of Command.  This is ALWAYS the first step.  When this didn't appear to be having any effect, and as Cadet Sr NCOs, they approached their Commanding Officers directly.  In one case, this turned things around, in the other, he then spoke to his affiliated Regiment's Cadet Liaison Officer.  This turned the trick.

I have many opinions regarding Cadet Instructor List Officers (or is it CIC, now?)  - some are great, some believe they are in charge of an overaged daycare service, however, the Cadets themselves can be the catalyst for change.  If you want change, you'll make it happen - don't hesitate to use the resources available to you (your Corps Officers, your affiliated CLO, etcetera).

Good luck to you.

_


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## Tweed (29 Mar 2006)

Thank you for your help, I'll tell my RSM,(even though he knows about the lack of qualities for Respect and etc) during our Canteen oneday he asked us about what we need to work on, alot of people said, respect of rank, and dress, and i don't think anything happend. I over heard one of the cadets say "This is just a time to socialize, like yes  the Cadets are a youth program, but its not like a time to sit on your arse and chat.

  -Tweed


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## Quag (29 Mar 2006)

Tweed said:
			
		

> P.S Why do Cadets polish there combats? i thought you only blacken them



Tweed,

Many Regular Force members (I'm sure Pr. Res. to) polish their combats.  During training courses it is unofficially expected, though blackening will usually do.  In my opinion, it looks sharper and makes you look more turned out and switched on.  

Just my opinion,
Good luck getting everything else worked out.

-Quag


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## Tweed (29 Mar 2006)

> Tweed,
> 
> Many Regular Force members (I'm sure Pr. Res. to) polish their combats.  During training courses it is unofficially expected, though blackening will usually do.  In my opinion, it looks sharper and makes you look more turned out and switched on.
> 
> ...




Thanks Quag, i was wondering, just because a couple of Reg Force guys (like my step dad) looked at me like i was high when i told him that, and also because if you were in a combat zone, you really don't want anything shining


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## c.jacob (30 Mar 2006)

A huge thing you can do is set the example.  If you're new and you're coming well turned out while people who have been around for a while aren't, people will take notice.  And hopefully it will catch on.


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## Quag (30 Mar 2006)

Tweed,

I agree with you that in combat situations, shiny combat boots would not help you.  I was speaking more in terms of garrison.  

I will also point out that during certain combat missions (Afghanistan), desert combat boots are issued.  These are tan in colour and are not shined.

I'm not sure why your step-dad was so flabbergasted by your suggestion of shining combat boots. With any amount of experience, he should have seen manifold troops shining their boots when in garrison.  Also, during his basic training he more than likely did it himself.

Regards,
-Quag


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## Tweed (30 Mar 2006)

> A huge thing you can do is set the example.  If you're new and you're coming well turned out while people who have been around for a while aren't, people will take notice.  And hopefully it will catch on



 Thank you, i will try that, hopefully it will work, like i said, I'm not a hard core cocky cadet that thinks the world revoles around him, i just want the Corp to be presentable.




> [Tweed,
> 
> I agree with you that in combat situations, shiny combat boots would not help you.  I was speaking more in terms of garrison.
> 
> ...




Thank you. My Step-Dad was just kind of shocked, and i know about the Desert combats (not meaning to sound like a smartass) being hes gone into Afghanistan, but i thank you for your help, it was just bothering me.


- Tweed



edited to sort out your quote


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## Franko (30 Mar 2006)

Tweed,

Seeing that I regualrly volenteer my time with cadets for over the past 17 years I'll give you a bit of advice...

- Set the example in regards to dress and deportment, in aspects of your training nights and exercise weekends.

- Sort out the cadets who are giving you a problem, if need be go up your chain and get them sorted out. If it can be handled at the lowest level, the better.

- Be as professional as you can in bearing while in uniform. Walk with a purpose as well. Nothing worse than someone who just shuffles their feet with slouched shoulders.

- If you are in a leadership position, Cpl or higher, for God's sake LEAD. If changes are needed in your corps, bring them up. Address the problem and have a solution to the problem. Nothing worse than someone complaining about the system and not willing to do anything about it.

- Be approachable to your subordinates. Nothing worse than being feared by the youngin's....it puts a gap between you and them.

- Develope a reporr with the cadets that are coming in. If they see a good example from the get go, they'll more than likely try to attain that example.


Just a few things that might help you out.

One the topic of spit shining your combat boots.....there really isn't any need and it's not expected by anyone at all, no matter what you've been lead to beleive. A good brush shine is all that's needed. After a few years it'll start shining all on it's own. This is the accepted standard plain and simple. 

There are Reg and P Res force members that do spit shine their boots, for specific reasons that don't apply to you.

At camp the only cadet doing this should be the CSMs and the camp RSM, the rest should be too busy getting things done to do it   ;D

Now in the cadet world you should only be wearing them either in the field on exercise or on training nights as detailed by your CO.

Hope that helps.

Regards




 :   I can hear it now....."My CO said we have to spit shine our combat boots"  and  "We wear combats every night"..............


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## Quag (30 Mar 2006)

HAHA!

By shine, I didnt mean spit shine. I was referring to just the normal brush job.  As Franko pointed out, after brush polishing your combats, they will begin to naturally shine.  This due in part to the grain becoming smoother and the polish being built up to make the grain smoother.

In my opinion, spit shining your combats is a waste of time.  Your time could be better spent sorting out your kit, or polishing your oxfords, among other things.


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## Tweed (30 Mar 2006)

Thank you Quag and Franko, this will help me alot.  



- Tweed


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## Kid_Recruit (31 Mar 2006)

Hello Tweed,

I am pretty new to my corp i ve only bin in for a year and am a corporal at my corp and it has the exact same problem, I think this problem is one of the most commonly encountered one in all of the cadet corps and i think the only solution to solve these problems is for the corp to work together more like have more cooperative activities and ones were the seniors can earn the respect of their cadets because most kids these days sorly lack it, i know i don't show any at my corp and it really is hard to show it because most seniors are stuck up and never prove their superiority. Also one of the reasons is some of the officers who dont take a strict enough approach to keeping their corp up and running in good order and sometimes i really do wish someone from the reg forces would come to our corp and command it instead of my CO because he is extremely unsure of himself and i really doubt his leadership.

bye


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## Burrows (31 Mar 2006)

Kid_Recruit,

Saying that you want a Reg Force officer to be the CO of your corps is a pretty inane thing to say.  Everyone has their faults, and if your CO is unsure, then it is the job of the srs, and the officers to help make him sure.

Ever think that the reason seniors get no respect is because they weren't show how to properly command respect?  Cadets can be a viscious cycle.


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

well i really think a reg force officer should command our corp and it wouldnt be that difficult to adapt to of course it would be alot stricter, yet it would improve corps all over. I was disappointed when i joined to hear that my CO had never had any field experience because how are they supposed to teach us how to survive in the army if all they do is hand out promotions on certain parades and thats it. We've also had reg forces officers come to our corp alot and they would sort of take control for a bit due to the fact that our CO does not and I found our corp was alot more quicker to form up when told and the experience of cadets was alot more informative and constructive. Also i would like to say something that might be kind of contraversial although i'm sure many people feel the same i am realy disappointed with how the promotions are chosen in cadets because the CO's don't look at your skill they only look at your time in the corp and your volunteer hours for cadet activities.I mean like I'm a corporal and in the cadets the knowledge portion is measured with star levels green being the lowest and national star certification as the last and well i was able to skip through red and silver star within 2 weeks and made it to gold one under the nsce and i tried for nsce but i wasnt able to study enough due to school obligations but i mean me CO shows no respect for people who exceed expectations and it really irritates me alot. If anyone has any helpfull suggestions about this topic feel free to post em up  bye


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## Springroll (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit,

The best CO's I had were not Reg Force Officer's....and I am not saying that they were slack and let us get away with stuff, because they never did. They were very strong leaders and I will forever be grateful to them for lighting the way for me and other cadets. One in particula has always stayed in my mind, and I wish I could find him and tell him how much I appreciate what he did for us.

and yes, I have met some pretty "slack" CO's in my time too, I'm just happy that they were never mine.


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

well i know not all of the COs are slack but mine is for sure. I have seen some good ones like the dragoons at conaught ranges(sorry don realy know how to spell it) I'm just saying if you do get a good organized corp you should consider yourself fortunite because they are pretty hard to find now a days


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## Franko (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> well i really think a reg force officer should command our corp and it wouldnt be that difficult to adapt to of course it would be alot stricter, yet it would improve corps all over.



Reg force Officers can't command a cadet corps, period.

Now to echo Springroll's comment:


> The best CO's I had were not Reg Force Officer's....and I am not saying that they were slack and let us get away with stuff, because they never did. They were very strong leaders and I will forever be grateful to them for lighting the way for me and other cadets. One in particula has always stayed in my mind, and I wish I could find him and tell him how much I appreciate what he did for us.



The best CO I had when I was a cadet was a young gent by the name of Serge Dube. He was strict, by the book....but fair at the same time. He moulded the corps into what he believed was the proper way a corps should be. 

The deadwood was cleared away quickly, by their own accord. We went from approx 30+ to just shy of 20 in one year....some say that's bad, I don't. He had a plan.

In successive years the corps grew until this day....I think it's sitting at about 150. The senior NCOs are still instilled with the rules he set out and we implemented...which I mentioned above.

It's great to see Snr NCOs in my old corps, using my old drill cane and uttering my old sayings at the ones who screw up.    ;D

Mind you it's a bit overwhelming when the present CO introduces me during a trip I made a couple of years ago as "One of the old originals"...then turns the corps over to me for a bit of drill    :

The troops were tired by the time I was done.    ;D

Anyways, I still try to live up to Serge's idea of what makes a proper leader, 23 years later. How's that for influence?    



> I have seen some good ones like the dragoons at conaught ranges.....



That's good to hear....that's the corps I volunteer with    

Regards


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

Well if you don't think we need a reg force leader i definitly think our COs need more training to influence us better sure cadets is supposed to be fun and all that but some of us go into it to begin training to become soldiers and we need the best training we can get in order to stay alive in the forces in the future sure saying this probably won't help anything but i know back in the day before c.h.a.p.p cadets was alot more hard core when pt was given everyday at my corp we re lucky to get it once every 3 months and all we get is like 10 push ups. Well thats just my view on this, i could be wrong but if we are expected to be associated with the military i think we should all be trained and be able to live up to the standards of teen soldiers.


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Apr 2006)

You do realize cadets is to develop and interest in the CF its not designed as a pre screening for prospective CF members. 

Kid Recruit what you are advocating is child soldiers and that is against international law.


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## Franko (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> Well if you don't think we need a reg force leader i definitly think our COs need more training to influence us better sure cadets is supposed to be fun and all that but some of us go into it to begin training to become soldiers and we need the best training we can get in order to stay alive in the forces in the future sure saying this probably won't help anything but i know back in the day before c.h.a.p.p cadets was alot more hard core when pt was given everyday at my corp we re lucky to get it once every 3 months and all we get is like 10 push ups. Well thats just my view on this, i could be wrong but if we are expected to be associated with the military i think we should all be trained and be able to live up to the standards of teen soldiers.



Cadet's purpose isn't to train you to be a soldier. Look here:

http://www.cadets.ca/about-nous/overview_e.asp



> Cadets is a federally-sponsored program for young Canadians ages 12 to 18 who are interested in participating in a variety of challenging and rewarding activities, and _learning more about the Canadian Forces._
> 
> Cadets are encouraged to become active, responsible members of their communities. They learn valuable life and work skills like teamwork, leadership, and citizenship. Cadets also reap the personal benefits of increased self-confidence and physical fitness, learning how to take initiative, and how to make decisions. Cadets make valuable contributions to Canadian society on a daily basis in terms of environmental, citizenship and community activities.



There is nothing about the cadet movement training you to be a teen soldier. It wasn't in my day either, 23 years ago....or as some would call it the "good old days". Yes we trained with weapons (marksmanship) and did the patrolling stuff on a regular basis with our affiliated units, because they wanted to influence and develop the corps. At no time were we expected to soldier...and that was brought up on a regular basis. We had fun...plain and simple.

Now days the cadet movement has been told, through legislation, that this is no longer acceptable. Canada signed an agreement reference child soldiers:



> *Canada: Child Soldier Global Report 2001*
> From the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers
> With parental consent and reliable proof of age, 16 and 17 year olds can be recruited into the Canadian Armed Forces. Legislative changes reflecting Canada’s commitment to the CRC-OP-CAC include, most recently, Bill S-18 which stipulates that under-18s in the Canadian forces, primarily at military college and in the militia, must not be deployed in hostilities. During the first year of training, recruits may submit a request to the commanding officer for release from service. Except for persons selected for deployment, release is usually authorised but candidates may incur costs if they leave. Most under-18s enter through the Regular Officer Training programme and will not incur costs provided they leave before year two of the advanced programme or before a year and a half in the preparatory programme.



As for PT everyday at your corps...bring it up through your chain of command.

Now onto CHAPP. It's the cadet version of SHARP that we in the CF have been briefed on. It doesn't say that you can't train hard...you just can't harass people.

This is a good thing IMO. If you can't influence people without using harassment and bullying...you're not much of a leader.

Take a look here:  http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/leader/leader.html

Some excerpts:



> Leadership is a process by which a person influences others to accomplish an objective and directs the organization in a way that makes it more cohesive and coherent. Leaders carry out this process by applying their leadership attributes, such as beliefs, values, ethics, character, knowledge, and skills. Although your position as a manager, supervisor, lead, etc. gives you the authority to accomplish certain tasks and objectives in the organization, this power does not make you a leader...it simply makes you the boss. Leadership differs in that it makes the followers want to achieve high goals, rather than simply bossing people around.
> 
> Bass' (1989 & 1990) theory of leadership states that there are three basic ways to explain how people become leaders. The first two explain the leadership development for a small number of people. These theories are:
> 
> ...



Take a close look at the Follower/ Leader paragraphs   

Regards


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## Springroll (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit, I do not know how old you are, but I did ask my almost 12 year old son why he wants to join army cadets. 
He told me because he wants to go camping and meet new people. 

He does want to join the CF when he gets older, but that is not his reason for him wanting to join cadets.


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

Well dude you have proven that cadets is a more extra curricular activity rather than a military defence but isn't it that if the reg forces need re enforcements they call reserves and if the reserves need help they call the cadets, well i know back in the day cadets were expected to be called in in times of war im not sure the current status on that though and i mean i would find it more sensible to have us the kids who volunteer under our own free will to cadets that swear the oath to the queen are trained enough to be able to show our country proud in times of need, but thats just me


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## Springroll (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> Well dude you have proven that cadets is a more extra curricular activity rather than a military defence but isn't it that if the reg forces need re enforcements they call reserves and if the reserves need help they call the cadets, well i know back in the day cadets were expected to be called in in times of war im not sure the current status on that though



Well sicne 1990 at least, cadets have NEVER been relied on for the national defence of this country. To trust a bunch of 12 year olds with our national defence is a little ridiculous



			
				Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> and i mean i would find it more sensible to have us the kids who volunteer under our own free will to *cadets that swear the oath to the queen * are trained enough to be able to show our country proud in times of need, but thats just me



What oath did you swear in cadets, because I never swore an oath....EVER!

btw, how old are you Kid_Recuit?
NM, I see you filled in your profile.


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## GGHG_Cadet (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit,

If I were you I'd be careful about what you are saying on this board. I know for a fact that there is a former RSM and a current RSM from your cadet corps who visit this forum. I also know that the GGFG are an amazing corps who have produced some amazing cadets. I don't know how long you have been around but your last few RSMs have had really good reputations. Lau-Chap was the only cadet I knew of with 5 medals and his wings, Potvin was the winner of Walsh Memorial Sword for best cadet in Canada, the other Lau Chap was the top NSCE candidate in Ontario last year. 2784 is a good corps, and I don't know why you say differently. They always send a lot of seniors on exchanges and advanced training, and they also have a large number of cadets regularly parading I believe.


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

excuse me i never said i was in the cadet corps of the ggfg i am in 2958 1st anti-tank, dude. I am in the ggfg reserve unit but my course hasn't yet started and it doesnt begin until this summer so i will stay in my corp because, hey i love the military its great  . I know the guards are an excellent unit because i have met them and they pretty much excel at everything atleast against my corp,lol. I'm just saying that in general if there were a step up in the training it would be quite beneficial, Sincerely your,  
:threat: THE KID  :threat:


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

Hey, I'm 16 but w/e i know there are the kids who wish to go to cadets for a good time and I'm not saying to be properly trained would ruin the fun its not like they would know the difference, in fact it would make the youth a lot better at what they do in their civilian life as well not that it already does but training us to know more about the forces,ranks,respect, and combat would make the youth a lot more efficient in life and more co-operative. I'm not saying make us teen terminators or nothing but i don't think we are being taught as much as we should be to survive in a real life situation. If your son wishes to join the military then he should be put through the paces of the forces so he know he likes it, sure he will meet friends when you are stuck with a corp for a year it feels like a family, and camping can be done on exercises yet we don't get enough to actually teach us much. I'm sure not all 12 year olds are up to the challenge but i know the ones who are will strive a lot further with a stricter unit then with the way the units are run now. Thank you for hearing me out


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## GGHG_Cadet (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> excuse me i never said i was in the cadet corps of the ggfg i am in 2958 1st anti-tank, dude. I am in the ggfg reserve unit but my course hasn't yet started and it doesnt begin until this summer so i will stay in my corp because, hey i love the military its great  . I know the guards are an excellent unit because i have met them and they pretty much excel at everything atleast against my corp,lol. I'm just saying that in general if there were a step up in the training it would be quite beneficial, Sincerely your,
> :threat: THE KID  :threat:



My bad, sorry about that. Saw that it said you were a GGFG in your profile, but you explained that.


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## Franko (1 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> Well dude you have proven that cadets is a more extra curricular activity rather than a military defence but isn't it that if the reg forces need re enforcements they call reserves and if the reserves need help they call the cadets, *well i know back in the day cadets were expected to be called in in times of war* im not sure the current status on that though and i mean i would find it more sensible to have us the kids who volunteer under our own free will to cadets that swear the oath to the queen are trained enough to be able to show our country proud in times of need, but thats just me



Hasn't happened since the 1800s....nor will it ever since Canada signed the above mentioned agreement. You are now well outside your lane of expertice on this one.

Besides, the last thing I need in my troop is some 15 years old who I have to worry about constantly in theater...instead of the mission.

So you are now serving and waiting in the wings to start your course....congrats. Try not to confuse the cadet world and the world in which you are about to enter.    

[quote author=Kid_Recruit]
excuse me i never said i was in the cadet corps of the ggfg i am in 2958 1st anti-tank, dude. I am in the ggfg reserve unit but my course hasn't yet started and it doesnt begin until this summer so i will stay in my corp because, hey i love the military its great  I know the guards are an excellent unit because i have met them and they pretty much excel at everything atleast against my corp,lol. I'm just saying that in general if there were a step up in the training it would be quite beneficial[/quote]

I suggest that you drop out of cadets completely so you can concentrate on your upcoming training with the Reserves if you are so unhappy there.

Now that you have named what corps you are in I'm sure that there are a few CIC Officers here (and there are many) that are taking down some pertinate points.



> I'm not saying make us teen terminators or nothing but i don't think we are being taught as much as we should be to survive in a real life situation.



Again, you will never be trained as such in the cadet world...sorry that's the way it is and there is nothing anyone can do to change it.



> If your son wishes to join the military then he should be put through the paces of the forces so he know he likes it, sure he will meet friends when you are stuck with a corp for a year it feels like a family, and camping can be done on exercises yet we don't get enough to actually teach us much.



If they want to find out what it's like they join the reserves. If they like it they can always move on to the Regs....or stay in the reserves and participate as much as they like to.



Just to re-iterate....the cadets will never be trained to the standards you want. There is no need of it whatsoever. 

If you feel that you were gyped in someway by your corps and the training standards that are there...that's your problem. I suggest that you try to focus yourself on your future with the reserves instead of the past with a youth organisation.



*Back on topic*

Regards


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## Kid_Recruit (1 Apr 2006)

Alright, Alright man i know i've bin outspoken but i'm just stating that from my personal experience in the cadets it is way to easy and my corp is not as organized as i would like it to be, of course im probably better off in the reserves but i'm gonna try to help my corp get it together there are a couple of the seniors that wish to help make the corp more organized so well i'm gonna stay in for another year to make sure my corp is good and is able to place good in some of the competitions with the other corps, but thanks for educating me in this subject dude  

 :threat: THE KID  :threat:


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## Franko (1 Apr 2006)

No problem.   

I'm sure your corps will gladly take the help.

Regards


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## Burrows (2 Apr 2006)

Kid_Recruit said:
			
		

> corpcorp corp corp corps



1/5 - Only if we count the time you spelled it right when you tried to make it plural.

For someone who knows a lot about the army. :


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