# How to go? JTF2-Combat Diver-Clearance-Commercial ???



## ComDvr13 (29 Oct 2013)

Hello,
I'm sure much of what I am about to ask has been answered but I may have some unique questions as well.

I am turning 21 this December, I am a scuba instructor and I am seeking more meaning in my life and military/navy life has always had a certain appeal of brotherhood, service and prestige. 

I have an opportunity to attend commercial diving school in Kelowna, BC next year and I'll be 22 by the time I am done. 

Diving is something I really want to do to a prestigious level. Being either offshore commercial or perhaps say a combat diver/clearance diver with even some aspirations to JTF2 diving. But I'm sure most young guys have idealistic dreams for their careers and special  forces right.

Anyway, I cant decide on attending commercial diving school and trying out for JTF2 from the reserves (3 years of being in reserves) when I am around 28, then only serving for a few years before returning to commercial diving before retiring way down the road.

Or to enlist, try for infantry or combat engineer, boatswain as my third, (all seem to be hiring right now as of OCT 2013 forces.ca job board) and go for JTF2, Combat Diver, or ships diver respectively. 

From combat diver and ships diver (then to clearance diver perhaps) I'd then try out for JTF2. Its definitely my aspiration and being reasonably smart and athletic and experienced with guns, diving and teamwork I think I could definitely stand a chance. 

I am also extremely comfortable in the underwater realm, under duress, alone, in the dark, in cold water. Thrive on it really.

Any suggestions from forces members? Divers in particular? Suggestions on a young mans path? How hard will it be to get into forces diving in the future? Combat diver seems most like commercial diver so ships/clearance would be prefered which requires navy not army. Also, JTF2 diving, any info? Cant seem to find any anywhere.

In the end its all up to me and I know I'll look back without regret no matter where or when my deathbed will be. Its just hard to choose your life path from this end of things. ???

Thank you


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## brihard (29 Oct 2013)

You cannot become a JTF2 assaulter from the PRes anymore, FYI. Applications are only accepted from the regular force.


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## SkyZ (10 Nov 2013)

To be honest, joining the forces with the sole intention of going JTF-2 is unfortunately unrealistic. In no way am I saying you wouldn't be able to do it, but so much changes from the time your join till the time you are allowed to apply. Your best bet is to take baby steps.


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## Nudibranch (13 Nov 2013)

Joining with the sole intent of a diving career is not too realistic either. Clearance divers are the only RegF career that has diving as its primary job - the other types mentioned (shallow water, like combat, ship's team) are all diving-as-secondary-duty. Worst case scenario, you might not get to do more actual diving than the minimum to remain qualified, and that might be in a hyperbaric chamber, not actual water. 
You do have to be a shallow water diver first in order to apply for clearance diver, but being selected as a clearance diver is not guaranteed. You might end up in a mostly non-diving job.


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## Sharp (13 Nov 2013)

Some advice given to me by friends and other members of different forums:

Don't mention "JTF2" in the interview or else they will just chuck your application into the shredder.

Even though you have a valid reason and high interest in it, avoid discussing it or making plans. They'll just assume you're a kid that wants to play with guns. You're not, I know. You're a serious person. The reason is because you're discussing a career (CANSOFCOM/JTF2) that is high up there, but not too high.

As heinous as it may sound, it makes sense.

This is what was told to me. I choose to agree with this. As an example, don't apply for a job and tell them that you want to be president of the company.

I know this isn't the answer to your dilemma, but it is some advice.

The previous users are correct in terms of taking baby steps. Make your way through the 3 years of regular forces and see where that takes you.

I was interested in JTF2 as well, but then I got my sights and interests on the Sniper. Either as the sniper, spotter, or cover. Everyone has their own goals

Good luck. Hope to see you on the field someday.


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## ComDvr13 (14 Nov 2013)

Alright thanks for the great advice, info and tips. 

Babysteps, roger. :facepalm:

Diving, important to me but does not have to become my career as long as while in garrison I can scuba dive on say, evenings weekends depending upon duty. 8)

Cansofcom or elite forces are what I'd be aiming at, Im 21, athletic, intelligent, skilled, no post-secondary and choosing between commercial diving (terrible job prospects but lifestyle and diving with potential for great earnings) or joining the reg forces (call to arms, service, benefits, adventure, decent salary, training etc.) But neverless, I know that alot of deserving people might not get what they want as its needs based and alot of perhaps underserving people might not particularly have bad performance so.

I could enlist, probably as infantry and see where my first contract gets me. you know, basic para, mountain, urban, perhaps marksman and some more fun training courses if possible. Whats your thoughts?

Then remuster into Com Eng if possible and begin trying to get into combat diver through my CoC. This would bring me to about 28 years old i imagine (4 year contracts) if all went as desired.

Then and only then I could try and OT to Cl Dvr and from there perhaps a cansofcom or another elite force like PPF?

_[Unrelatedly:]_
Finally, whats the time length on Ql5's, its confusing and I cant find any info thats relevant.

Ql5 is required for OT? But now I understand its DP1 and DP2 esp. in combat arms?

So Ql5 is what, like..MCpl? 

Whats the progression:

Ql1 - application
Ql2 - BMQ
Ql3 - Soldier Qualification/trade training (i.e. infantry soldier school or w/e or Com Eng course?)
Ql4 - ?? spec training like sniper/ PPF/ etc...??
Ql5 - 2/ic? THEN and ONLY THEN OT is possible?

If i cant hit ql5 in 4 years of infantry can i remuster into Com Eng? I kinda want to do both if possible...

Anyway.

Cheers and thanks again gentlemen/ladies


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## medicineman (14 Nov 2013)

ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> Alright thanks for the great advice, info and tips.
> 
> Babysteps, roger. :facepalm:
> 
> ...



Was just thinking - there is the Port Inspection Diver MOSID within the NavRes...at it's basic levels, is still ocnsidered a shallow water diver (</=100FSW), but is an option if you don't want to go Reg Force but still want to dive.

 :2c:

MM


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## MikeL (14 Nov 2013)

ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> I could enlist, probably as infantry and see where my first contract gets me. you know, basic para, mountain, urban, perhaps marksman and some more fun training courses if possible. Whats your thoughts?



You may get none of that in your first contract, so prepare for that. Also, the only Urban course I can think of right now is Urban Ops Instructor and I believe you need to be a MCpl to get onto it. You will train for FIBUA/Urban Ops during unit training, etc though. Basic Sniper runs in the battalion as required, same with Basic Recce Patrolman, so don't expect these courses to be running every year or be guaranteed a spot on them.



			
				ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> Then remuster into Com Eng if possible and begin trying to get into combat diver through my CoC. This would bring me to about 28 years old i imagine (4 year contracts) if all went as desired.



If your goal is Combat Engineer, than apply as a Combat Engineer not Infantry. Your goal of going Infantry just for certain courses may be not work out for you as you could end up getting none of them. Combat Engineers can also get onto courses like Basic Para, etc. Plus, you may not be able to OT into Combat Engineer. Worse, you could get injured during your time as Infantry and not be able to go Combat Engineer.



			
				ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> Then and only then I could try and OT to Cl Dvr and from there perhaps a cansofcom or another elite force like PPF?



Might want to cool it a bit with the dreams of CANSOF, PPF, etc.  Do not enlist just with the goal of SOF, and all the high speed courses as you may not get that opportunity. Plus you might decide regular Soldering is difficult and rewarding enough once you actually start doing it. If that(SOF) is your ambition, great but be realistic as well(not everyone who wants to be in SOF makes it). Once you get some time in a unit and a better idea of everything and what is expected, you will have a better idea if you wish to carry on with that route or not. Lots of time between now and than, so make sure you will be happy with what ever trade you join as, as never know what the future holds, you may be able to do all the cool courses, get into SOF, or you may not.

There is no Path Finder unit, just the Patrol Path Finder course. AFAIK, the majority of the troops being loaded onto it are coming from the Recce Platoons in the Infantry Battalions(Mech and Light). A few of the combat arms trades and support, are able to go on the course. I have no idea how many non Infantry pers are being course loaded.



			
				ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> Whats the progression:
> 
> Ql1 - application
> Ql2 - BMQ
> ...



It's a little confusing as things change, so don't over think the names too much.

You will do BMQ, followed by BMQ-Land, then your DP1/QL3 Trade course.  For Infantry, it is BMQ then the DP1 Infantry Course(they do not do a seperate BMQ-Land course).

DP2 courses for Infantry would be Weapons Det Member, PLQ, etc.  I know a few Corporal Infantrymen that have OT'd out of the trade, and I'm sure some Privates have OT'd out as well.



			
				ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> If i cant hit ql5 in 4 years of infantry can i remuster into Com Eng? I kinda want to do both if possible...



The first contract(TOS) a Infantry recruit signs is 3 years.  Also, just because you request a OT to Combat Engineer does not guarantee you will get it.  If you want to be a Combat Engineer, sign up as a one. Engineers get to do some cool stuff(don't think it is only Infantry), as well as a Sapper you can work alongside Infantry at times.


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## ComDvr13 (14 Nov 2013)

Cheers, I don't think the navy life itself is for me, I'd be fine if I could get to clearance diver but none of the other naval trades interest me enough to sign on for that. So combat diver was the route I'd take to cl dvr if that even were to happen. I mean the reserves are cool and I already live in Esquimalt and PiD is cool then I'd be eligible for cl dvr but I just don't know what I'd do in the mean time. It's time to make a choice for my financial future and it's come down to enlisting or commercial diving and I'm leaning towards enlisting. Ducks in a row and all that.

There's so much to this decision as with anything. I'd be fine with infantry but I probably wouldn't reenlist if com eng weren't available as an OT. I'd just do my time and then maybe do Navres. Idk. I'd like to do infantry for the training and fun then get into com eng if it were a possibility as engineering does interest m. If I got into com eng I'd just have to say oh well and skip inf.

I recently read infantry can apply for ships team diver with a good memo through their CoC? Sounded wrong to me but hey thought I'd ask. That was indeed in an army.ca forum. 

Anyhow, again, thanks for your time


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Nov 2013)

This "Ping-Pong ball" career plan you have is shyte.  You are assuming your CofC, the BPSO and then D Mil C (national level OT authority) is going to support this plan to go Inf-Cmbt Eng-Cl Dvr etc or whatever.  Just because you can apply for an OT doesn't mean you'll get it, and not all trades are taking OTs and not all trades have many OT-out numbers.  There are factors here you can't/aren't considering because you don't understand CF career/OT policy and realities, many of which are impossible to forecast X years in the future.  Do not get into the CF in a trade that you don't think you will be happy being retained in.

OTing is not a guarantee.  Going PRES and then trying to CT (Component Transfer) to Reg Force is not a guarantee.

Figure out what you want to do.  Inf trg and field life is not all fun and games, nor is Cmbt Engr and Cl Diver training isn't something to take lightly either.


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## Towards_the_gap (14 Nov 2013)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> This "Ping-Pong ball" career plan you have is shyte.  You are



He's also making the assumption that he's not a complete bag'o'sh*e either.


Or medically fit for all that.

And I really wish I would stop seeing sage advice from people with their stages of the recruitment process posted as their signature.


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## MikeL (14 Nov 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> He's also making the assumption that he's not a complete bag'o'sh*e either.



As well, sometimes reality hits pretty hard during training... seen a few guys VR during SQ because the Army wasn't what they thought it was going to be... these guys also signed up for Infantry.


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## ComDvr13 (14 Nov 2013)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Figure out what you want to do.  Inf trg and field life is not all fun and games, nor is Cmbt Engr and Cl Diver training isn't something to take lightly either.



Well aware, just the only two trades that interest me other than some form of forces diving. As Navy trades other than Cl Dvr dont interest me I figured it would be best to leave those trades open to people who genuinely want the navy life, and then if I were to fail Cl Dvr prelim im not stuck in a naval trade I have no interest in. 

I am well aware its tough mentally and physically.
I am physically fit, mentally strong and I expect a challenge. Hell, I almost expect to fail at least having tried considering the washout rate. I'm not saying I am holier than thou by any means, just find it funny that you tell me figure out what I want to do when thats _exactly _what my post is about. Gathering the intel to make an informed decision.



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> This "Ping-Pong ball" career plan you have is shyte.  You are assuming your CofC, the BPSO and then D Mil C (national level OT authority) is going to support this plan to go Inf-Cmbt Eng-Cl Dvr etc or whatever.  Just because you can apply for an OT doesn't mean you'll get it, and not all trades are taking OTs and not all trades have many OT-out numbers.  There are factors here you can't considering because you don't understand CF career/OT policy and realities, many of which are impossible to forecast X years in the future.  Do not get into the CF in a trade that you don't think you will be happy being retained in.



Now this "ping-pong" ball career path is all I have come up with, so its good to hear that there are things I haven't considered. Thank you Mr. Eye. You seem to be in a pathfinder unit? Mad respect for you. But you seem hostile. Probably from dealing with unlimited wannabes, which at this point I guess I am, and at one point..you were too?

Im not sorry for having dreams or ambitions, I know a plan never goes as planned, hence my apprehension to just enlist gung-ho and despise what I've locked myself into. Im looking at my options here man, how I can best serve the forces and how I can best enjoy serving. I realize the OT thing doesnt always happen, hence my previous posts

If I got into Inf and couldn't OT to Com Eng, I'd move on with my life, happy with my time served.
If I got into Com Eng and couldnt get into Comb Dvr, hell..then so be it, I'd enjoy my time and move on with my life.

But; If I could OT from INF after a contract into Com Eng, and I did get onto the Comb Dvr course after a few years, and that was it. GREAT! But if then I was able to pass prelim for Cl Dvr. Well, that would be gnarly.  And if after that I found out I earned a seat in JTF2 or something fast and hard, even more kickass. 

Call me ignorant, call me a dreamer, you cant call me stupid or lazy. What advice would you have for someone who could be your kids age with similar ambitions, as I see you're old enough to father Mr. Eye..

And to Towards_the_Gap
I'd like to believe I'm a respectable young guy. My father is proud of me, he was a hard working blue collar man his whole life. Never served but understands the appeal of it as his father had served WW2 as a mechanic. But hey, how the **** would you know right?   



			
				-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> As well, sometimes reality hits pretty hard during training... seen a few guys VR during SQ because the Army wasn't what they thought it was going to be... these guys also signed up for Infantry.



Dont know if you dont try, id just like to get it right the first time. Man, did not think I was gonna get so much flak haha


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## ComDvr13 (14 Nov 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> As well, sometimes reality hits pretty hard during training... seen a few guys VR during SQ because the Army wasn't what they thought it was going to be... these guys also signed up for Infantry.



Another point, I dont want the army to be something I think its going to be, I dont want any idealizations or false expectations. I'd like to go in with a pretty good idea that I'm going to get culture shocked, sure. I'm gonna get yelled at, punished, be bored, do PT, have some amazing experiences and probably have some extent of suffering. I know there are some "unforseens" out there that are just gonna crop up and either suck or maybe I'll have my mind blown, not quite literally of course, by all hopes... by what exactly our forces are capable of. I just want to get crap straight so I go in with the right attitude, like, here I am, use me, this is what Id Like to do? oh..no? not possible? okay well, did my time, didnt get anything more than what I expected so, discharge me and let me get on with my life with my pride intact that I served, and just didnt happen to get the "extras" I was hoping for. Oh well.


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## CombatDoc (14 Nov 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> And I really wish I would stop seeing sage advice from people with their stages of the recruitment process posted as their signature.


+1.  The first phrase new members should learn is "lanes, stay in them".


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## SkyZ (14 Nov 2013)

Did I miss something in this post on why you don't just go Combat Engineer and skip the whole idea of doing time in the infantry and OT to combat engineer?

Also take it from someone who was just as bad, if not worse than you at thinking extremely big before joining the military. I was pretty obsessed with the idea of joining CSOR, but after joining and five years later, you tend to realize you really can't join the military with the sole purpose of joining a specialized unit OR with the sole purpose of getting specific courses.

My opinion is take the advice of the people above me who have offered their opinions on your situation because they defiantly know what they are talking about. Take baby steps. Get through basic first, actually, scrap that, decide what job you want first, then get through basic. Do your DP1 and spend time in battalion. Once you get the lay of the land, then you can re-evaluate what you want to do.


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## Journeyman (15 Nov 2013)

ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> Thank you Mr. Eye. You seem to be in a pathfinder unit?


      op:


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Nov 2013)

ComDvr13 said:
			
		

> Well aware, just the only two trades that interest me other than some form of forces diving. As Navy trades other than Cl Dvr dont interest me I figured it would be best to leave those trades open to people who genuinely want the navy life, and then if I were to fail Cl Dvr prelim im not stuck in a naval trade I have no interest in.
> 
> I am well aware its tough mentally and physically.
> I am physically fit, mentally strong and I expect a challenge. Hell, I almost expect to fail at least having tried considering the washout rate. I'm not saying I am holier than thou by any means, just find it funny that you tell me figure out what I want to do when thats _exactly _what my post is about. Gathering the intel to make an informed decision.



Seen.  I said figure out what you want to do because I don't think the "go Inf, then Cmbt Engr then...." will work.  If the end state desired is Cl Diver, then you should figure out the best plan to set you up for success with the backup plan of "and I won't mind being a XXXXXX if that plan doesn't work out".



> Now this "ping-pong" ball career path is all I have come up with, so its good to hear that there are things I haven't considered. Thank you Mr. Eye. You seem to be in a pathfinder unit? Mad respect for you. But you seem hostile. Probably from dealing with unlimited wannabes, which at this point I guess I am, and at one point..you were too?



There are things you haven't considered, which is why I wanted to put a smidge of reality out there for you.  

Pathfinder unit; you are thinking Army Patrol Pathfinders, in which case the 'mad respect' would be earned.  Take a closer look at my profile.   :nod:   If you figure it out, army _Patrol Pathfinders _ and the wartime _Pathfinder Force _ are both deserving of this mad respect.  

I'm not hostile, maybe blunt or something.



> Im not sorry for having dreams or ambitions, I know a plan never goes as planned, hence my apprehension to just enlist gung-ho and despise what I've locked myself into. Im looking at my options here man, how I can best serve the forces and how I can best enjoy serving. I realize the OT thing doesnt always happen, hence my previous posts
> 
> If I got into Inf and couldn't OT to Com Eng, I'd move on with my life, happy with my time served.
> If I got into Com Eng and couldnt get into Comb Dvr, hell..then so be it, I'd enjoy my time and move on with my life.
> ...



Well, I'm not JTF2 or Cl Diver but I'd say you need to decide what you think your desired end state would be.  Cl Dvr?  SOF?

If Cl Diver and you know you aren't interested in a Navy trade initially (leads to Ships Diver crse possibly), then I'd take a half-educated guess that going Cmbt Engineer would be a strong background to get there if you can make it to the Combat Diver world.  Not the only way but perhaps the best background.

Just realize that getting to the point you can even apply for an OT at this time means 4 years of service.   However, if you can get into Combat Engineer, combat diver is part of that trade you could try for without an OT (again, no guarantee you'd be picked or that you'd pass).  Not sure if there are any videos out there, but you can see the Truth Duty Valour Combat Diver one on youtube.

Is it impossible to go Inf-Engineer-Cl Dvr-JTF2.  No.  It is likely?  IMO...no.   Pick where you think you'd like to end up and then get some advice on the most realistic path to get there.  

And remember, shit happens.  I wanted to be a SAR Tech, I watched them jump and stuff all the time growing up.  I talked to one as a teenager who told me the best background I could get was Airborne medic.  Cool.  I didn't have the marks for medic (quit school in Gr 10) so joined combat arms with the plan to get a Gr 12 later.  Managed to get on Basic Para and then thundered into DZ Buzton and messed my back up.  No more jumping for me and no SAR Tech career.  Shit happens.


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Nov 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> op:



How can someone not know the difference between _PPFs_ and _The PFF_?    rly:


 ^-^


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## Jarnhamar (15 Nov 2013)

Grab one of your dungeons and dragons 10 sided dice and roll it.

Depending where it lands, at 4 years you'll

1- be a rock star with your recce course, jump course, sniper course.
2- working in the Kitshop selling boots and T-shirts.
3- working as a combat storesman sweeping floors and stockin shelves
4-7 be a soldier in a rifle company carrying a "light" machiengun, radio or some other standard job bitching that you're still a private while other guys who joined at the same time are already promoted.
8- be injured and working a sedimentarty job while you're waiting to heal
9- hate the army and waiting to release so you can apply for a nuclear plant security job/work out west at an oil field
10- get tasked away so much you forget the name of your wife and kids.


Good luck.


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Nov 2013)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Grab one of your dungeons and dragons 10 sided dice and roll it.



Awesome


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## Colin Parkinson (15 Nov 2013)

If you diving is that important to you, then stick to commercial, however be warned commercial diving is anything but glamorous. Often tedious with moments of disgust and terror mixed in. Pay a lot of attention to differential pressure hazards. If you are looking for a trade that might compliment your diving skills and have a chance of diving in the military then go Combat Engineer. Also take a keen interests in ROV as when your body begins to complain from the diving, you can move into that field. Also note that commercial diving is hard on your bone structure.


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