# Ammo load WWII Infantry



## ExSarge (12 Jun 2006)

Looking for information/clarification.

The sources I've read indicate that the infantrymen's basic ammo load for the CDN and other commonwealth contries for WWII was 50 rounds of 303. Now realizing that basic load and actual loads are two different things I'm wondering why only 50 rounds? It would seem like an incredibly small amount, especially for the Lee-Enfield. A weapon that was and is renowned for its fast smooth bolt action. Trained troops, and WWI 1914 comes to mind, could put out such a large volume of stained aimed fire that the Germans thought they were facing machine guns. Even green troops, who are less likely to practice fire conservation can put out a heavy volume of fire. 
I can't see it as weight restrictions. I would chuck food and other non-essentials first. Was it a bean counters decision, or did someone decide that as the two universal pouches could only accommodate 50 rounds that's all that was needed?

My question is twofold. 1). Does anyone know why 50 rounds was chosen as the basic ammo load?
                                  2). How much 303 ammo did the "average" riflemen actually carry in N/W Europe?


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## Michael Dorosh (12 Jun 2006)

The bandolier only held 50 rounds, mainly. A cloth bandolier with 5 pockets was standard. The universal pouches weren't used for rifle ammo, you carried 2-in mortar bombs, Boyes ATR mags, frag grenades, smoke grenades, and especially Bren mags in them. They were too small for Sten mags to be carried properly, incidentally, though 20 round Thompson mags fit.

Standard load was one bandolier, but 4 Bren Mags for every man in the section, so he really carried 112 rounds for the Bren and 50 for his rifle (mags were usually filled to 28 rather than 30 to prevent stoppages from weakened springs, IIRC). In other words 162 rounds of .303, not 50.

In action, the riflemen probably never used their 50 rounds in an entire week so there was little requirement to carry more than that. The Bren and Sten were the basis of section tactics, and the 25-pounder was the war winner... hence, everyone in the section carried Bren mags.

See Strome Galloway's books on infantry combat in the Second World War from a Canadian infantryman's perspective. He theorized that the riflemen might have just as easily carried pitchforks for all the good they were doing. Dovetails with SLA Marshall's work, though the latter has been severely criticized in recent years.


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## 3rd Horseman (13 Jun 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> In action, the riflemen probably never used their 50 rounds in an entire week so there was little requirement to carry more than that.



And given that a unit may only be in the lead element once in a few months putting them in actual contact with the EN on very few occasions, one could speculate that the 50 probably lasted the war for many. Just a thought.


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## Old Sweat (13 Jun 2006)

And if you want something else to ponder, 60 rounds (ten in the rifle and 50 in the bandolier) was the same basic load as that which was carried by line infantry, but not rifle regiments (40 rounds), in the 19th century.


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## ExSarge (13 Jun 2006)

Thanks for the information guys. 

Michael, your answer cleared up a number of points, thank you. Combat doctrine is the most likely answer to my original question. Artillery and auto weapons being the real battlefield killers. 

I do wonder about 3rd Div regiments in the days immediately after D-day. I've read a number of reports that indicated they were heavily engaged and some Bn's were without Arty and auto weapons support. I know some sub-units were forced to surrender after being cut off and running low on ammo. Again, what did these guys wade ashore with? I doubt that small unit leaders or even individual riflemen went in with the assumption that combat would only be infrequent and separated by large gaps in time and space (Although I'm sure they all prayed it would be!). I bet they were loaded down like Marius's mules.

As a combat vet I can tell you that there is no worse experience then running low on ammo during a firefight. My basic load of rifle ammo was 120 rd's. I routinely carried between 200 to 300 plus 100 rd's of mg ammo, two frags, two smoke and one claymore. I would leave food and comfort items behind to carry ammo. To be sure there were times I would return without expending any ammo. However I always felt it was better to carry it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

On a related note, after WWII the U.S. conducted a Bomb Damage Assessment. This report also looked into Small arms ammo expenditure. They determined that only one round out of 5000 actually hit an enemy combatant. The others were used to keep heads down or waisted.

Finally, somewhat off topic but relevant think, the weight of the infantrymans load has not chanced since the time of the Roman legions. Whether he stood in a shield wall facing the Gauls or hunts Talibans in the hills of Afghanistan the average combat weight remains the same.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Jun 2006)

ExSarge said:
			
		

> I do wonder about 3rd Div regiments in the days immediately after D-day. I've read a number of reports that indicated they were heavily engaged and some Bn's were without Arty and auto weapons support. I know some sub-units were forced to surrender after being cut off and running low on ammo. Again, what did these guys wade ashore with? I doubt that small unit leaders or even individual riflemen went in with the assumption that combat would only be infrequent and separated by large gaps in time and space (Although I'm sure they all prayed it would be!). I bet they were loaded down like Marius's mules.



The assault troops on D-Day carried as little as possible I think, with ammo being the priority naturally.  







Sergeant Grant's film suggests that even small packs were left behind by some of the assault troops. I don't know if this is the first wave or second but they are definitely Queen's Own Rifles; the Battle Jerkin was issued to some assault troops as well.  I expect an extra bandolier of rifle ammo was probably in order - I'd have to see if I can track down what the individual load was.

It seems to me that "G1098 " refers to the official scale of issue of ammunition. I'll dig around - I thought I had a complete D-Day equipment listing somewhere - unless Old Sweat or someone has the figure near to hand.


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## Kirkhill (13 Jun 2006)

MacDonald Fraser's "Quartered Safe Out Here" of Burma 43-45 also cites his ammunition load as "50 rounds apiece, in a canvas bandolier draped across the buttocks".  He does not make clear if his 10 rounds on the rifle and "one up the spout" were part of or in addition to this.

His pouches contained 2 grenades in one and 2 Bren magazines of "between 25 and 30 rounds" 0.303 in the other.

Other weapons were a variety of sharp and heavy things - Gillette razor blade (issued), Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife (acquired), 1914 sword bayonet (issued), Kukhri (acquired), entrenching tool handle (issued).   (Private in a Line Infantry Regt (Br) - "The Border Regiment" (English. Not the KOSB's)).

SMG issued was the Thompson, not the Sten-ch.


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