# A Problem



## sgtdixon (17 Dec 2003)

Because Ive been asked what is was that happened
Well I know im gonna catch all holy **** for admitting what I did and how bad ive Effed up here but I need a few opinions.

On Nov 29 there ws an altercation at my house and i, along with two females was assaulted, being afraid for my life at this point (the assailants were 6‘4" 300pds) I grabbed from under a bed an Unloaded, Triggerlocked .308 lever action with the firing pin removed earlier in the year after hunting season and cradeled it in my arms and asked the two jagoffs to leave immediately.
At this point they called the police on me and I was arrested and charged.. (odd how defending oneself and ones home gets you arrested)
How badly will this affect my joining the armed forces? I know if i recieve a criminal record im totally Effed, however what if i just recieve a fine or something of that ilk? will it barr me from the army and can i appeal this at all. I know my stupid actions may have done in my dreams of serving my country, but any thought or anything you have to say is much appreciated.


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## Pikache (18 Dec 2003)

I think better answered in recruiting forum.


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## Bert (18 Dec 2003)

I‘m not a lawyer and its a good idea to take your question to one.

The catch is in the terminology.  If you are charged AND convicted of a crime then you will have to present this to the CF.  If you are charged, and found not guilty or NOT convicted of a crime, then don‘t worry about it.  It can be left unsaid in the past.

Once again, this is a question more for a lawyer
or someone knowledgable to give legal advice.


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## Ex-Dragoon (18 Dec 2003)

Just remember even if tried or convicted it would be in your best interest to seek a pardon, a lawyer would be able to assist in that as well.


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## xFusilier (18 Dec 2003)

Without knowing any other details;

If you have a criminal record it will most likely affect you eligibility to join the forces. 

First thing I can say is get a lawyer, it may cost you a chunk of change but one thing that I do know, even with reference to summary offences people who have a lawyer usually come out better than those that don‘t.

Once you have a lawyer, you have 3 options of avoiding a criminal record;

1.  Get acquitted (highly unlikely as you‘ve admitted commiting the offence).

2.  Find out if there is a diversion/alternate measures program in your area.  This will allow you to preform community service and in return the crown will stay the charges.

3.  Ask your lawyer to inquire about a absolute or conditional discharge in return for a guilty plea.  An absolute discharge will not appear on a criminal record, nor will a conditional discharge as long as you comply with the conditions the judge sets forth at sentencing.

4.  Regardless if you are convicted the only thing you can then do as regards your criminal record is apply for a pardon in 5 years.


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## Danjanou (18 Dec 2003)

This might help

www.legalline.ca


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## sgtdixon (18 Dec 2003)

Thank you guy for the replies, its really kinda helpful right now.


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## Infanteer (18 Dec 2003)

I don‘t get it, what did you do wrong?


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## sgtdixon (18 Dec 2003)

I defended my house and my safety by "Brandishing a Firearm", mind you it was unloaded, trigger locked, and the firing pin wasnt in the reciever, and i was arrested and charged with the above


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## winchable (19 Dec 2003)

Have they mentioned whether or not it will be a summary offence? If it is a summary offence you do not need to worry I don‘t believe.


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## sgtdixon (19 Dec 2003)

Really, well then i better call my lawyer and discuss this facet of info


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## xFusilier (19 Dec 2003)

If you are convicted of a Criminal Code charge, even if proceeded by summary proceedure you will recieve a criminal record unless you recieve an absolute or conditional discharge on conviction.


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## Ex-Dragoon (19 Dec 2003)

All and all consulting a lawyer might be your best bet. 

*eater of the red berries*
(see they don‘t hurt you.....*twitch*.....honest)


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## Garry (19 Dec 2003)

I‘m with Infanteer...what offense?

The criminal code of Canada is pretty clear on this. I won‘t bother paraphrasing, but in short as politically un-correct as it may seem, you acually are allowed to fight back.

Like everyone else said, get a lawyer, and get rid of the charges...you‘ve done nothing illegal.

On a personal note, the there are few things in the world dumber than brandishing an unloaded firearm- if these "bad guys" really were bad, they may well have had guns of their own.

Another one: weapons are ok only in self defense, and phrases like "I feared for my life" had better be used- where‘d ya find the time to go and get a busted gun? ...

Violence, and the application thereof, is best applied with a clear head. Better yet is to avoid those situations. However, once it‘s started, it‘s often (imho) better to be more aggressive and violent than the opposition....

Lastly, size plain don‘t matter. Big guys fall down too


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## Infanteer (19 Dec 2003)

My question was more philisophical than actually concerned with your specific case.

I do know that brandishing a firearm is an offence.  Even threatening to use one without actually showing the thing can get you into big caca.  And I don‘t know the specifics of your case, so I won‘t comment.

However, in general, I disagree with the fact that the government has made it illegal to defend your house and life with a firearm.  Technically, loading a weapon in an area where firing a weapon is illegal is an offence, so by blasting away a home invader your a commiting a firearms related offence.

Personally, I‘d rather be tried by 12 than carried out by 6.  There was an old guy in my home town who was tried for killing one of four kids who broke into his remote home.  The jury had the common sense to find the guy innocent.


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## sgtdixon (19 Dec 2003)

One the point of a busted gun, My father keeps only one of the guns in the house operational all year, after hunting season the rest are disabled.


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## Enzo (19 Dec 2003)

Well, are you really CF material? "Brandishing a firearm" in your defence? Does the CF really want individuals who use firearms to defend themselves?

You should have used polite language and reasoned with these guys.   

Sorry, just trying to lighten you up a bit. Get a lawyer, you should be fine.


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## Marauder (20 Dec 2003)

> Personally, I‘d rather be tried by 12 than carried out by 6.


Hoo-f$cking-ah, brother. Preach it loud and strong.

Dixon, if you and two female companions were assaulted (actually physically roughed up in any form) by two larger hooligans, in your own home, and your only "crime" was grabbing a legally possessed weapon (ie you didn‘t verbalize a threat to shoot the MFers), then I say find the best lawyer you can, and tell the Crown to shove their mindless lib horsesh1t back up their a##. If the scenario I outline is what happened you did nothing wrong. Even if the "justice" system screws you and you are convicted of such a bull**** offence as holding a firearm to defend your home and person, then you walk out of that courthouse knowing that you did the right thing since you and your friend are still on this side of the soil.


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## sgtdixon (20 Dec 2003)

True true, I Know i did the right thing but the court may see it otherwise, and if they do that means i gotta wait till im 23 to get my record expunged and that means waiting 5 years to Join mother green... gah thats 5 years i dont want to have to spend wasting in the labour industry


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## Meridian (30 Dec 2003)

BTW:

It comes down to security clearance as well...
They will find out everything.. and the Govnt/CSIS can decline you for a level 2 or 3 clearance (secret/top) for any reason they like...


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## casing (1 Jan 2004)

I really can‘t see what you did wrong. The police may have arrested you merely because it isn‘t necessarily up them to determine whether what you did was illegal or not. The fact is that you did "brandish a firearm". Therefore, you are arrested.  The cops weren‘t there to actually see what happened and the two thugs might have given a different story and the cops can‘t arbitrarily decide to believe one party over the other.  It‘s up to the lawyers and such to discover what really happened.

Essentially, this is a huge hassle for you and is gonna cost you a bit of $. But if what you told us here is what really happened, then you more than likely won‘t have anything to worry about. (I won‘t say absolutely won‘t have to worry because the system is far from perfect. Just make sure you get a decent lawyer--not a bargain basement type.)


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## Enzo (1 Jan 2004)

Dix - if you have to wait until you‘re 23, then do something with it. School or if you aren‘t certain of what you‘re interested in. Travel. Become a diver, work overseas, hang out in a bar, work on a cruise ship. The point is, don‘t think of it as wasted time, make the most of it, build yourself into a better person and when you‘re able, go for it.

All this is after the good lawyer of course


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## Jono (2 Jan 2004)

The whole situation is messed up, if you ask me. You‘d think the guys assaulting you and the girls would be the ones arrested...

Just remember: a charge is not a conviction. Police are required to arrest you; crown counsel makes the decision regarding a charge, but a conviction is somewhat harder to attain. Best of luck to you!


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## The_Falcon (2 Jan 2004)

Where do you live Dixon, a small town or a City. if you live in the GTA I would be shocked. For reference, this past summer out in Brampton, this gentleman became part of home invasion. These thugs broke into his house while he and his family were there and attacked them.  He fought them off managed to disarm one of the SOB‘s (I think there was like 3 or 4 of them) of the axe he was carrying, and started chasing them with it.  They guy was considered a hero, by everyone including the cops. The story was in The Toronto Sun. I think you are getting royally screwed. Get a very good lawyer. You have the right to defend yourself and others in harms way.


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## The_Falcon (2 Jan 2004)

Also just remembered in inccident in Hamilton not to far back, similar to yours, where the person used a weapon to defend himself, at his home, shot the bugger (Actually our victim shot the ground in front of the attacker. Since it was a shot gun and he was firing shot, not a slug, it ricocheted off the pavement and hit the attacker    ) Police charged the victim and everything, but he got off.


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