# Bilingualism levels at defence HQ 'insufficient,' audit says



## Edward Campbell (7 Feb 2006)

As if Gordon O'Connor doesn't have enough on his rookie plate, see this from today's _Globe and Mail_ (reproduced under the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060207.wlang0207/BNStory/National/home


> Bilingualism levels at defence HQ 'insufficient,' audit says
> By TERRY WEBER
> 
> Tuesday, February 7, 2006
> ...



My emphasis added.

Operations takes precedence?  _Quelle horreur!_  Clearly Gen. Hillier has his priorities all back-asswards.  Let's hear it for Mme. Adam:   :nana:


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Feb 2006)

"The main reason given for this slowness is that operational needs take priority over the language rights and obligations of employees,” the report said.
Really say it ain't so.


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## mo-litia (7 Feb 2006)

I wonder if the reporter who wrote this was able to complete the article with a straight face?  :


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Feb 2006)

I'm sure that Canada's Commissioner of Official Languages has no idea of what operational priorities entail


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## 2 Cdo (7 Feb 2006)

> operational needs often taking priority over employee rights and language obligations
> ,



Exactly how is this a problem? :


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## FSTO (7 Feb 2006)

Shaking head slowly.

Although it should be noted that in the Navy, you have a better chance at being promoted if you are functionally bi-lang vice being qualified to Command a warship.


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## medicineman (7 Feb 2006)

Reminds me of the day some Capt at RMC came in to teh MIR with a complaint.  Apparently I had to take down the DIY condom dispensers I'd put up around the college dorms because the catchy slogans I had on them, such as " A condom a day keeps scrub boy away" were unilingual only.  He got a little miffed when I came back with the facts that the standard operational languages of the air and sea were English and that the standard operational language in NATO is English as well.  Not to mention the fact that Force Health Protection comes first as well.  He didn't buy it and my boss had to take aside for a walk and talk.  I didn't get to talk...

Priorities!!

MM


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## mover1 (7 Feb 2006)

OK here goes  a total of 1888 something or other number of surveys were completed for a return rate of how much? 55 % so we are judging by a survey that clearly half the recipients didn't fill out. 
Civilians in score better?
Was there a Gaff factor put in the equation because clearly a majority of the people hired in NDHQ come from the Ottawa-Hull region and would have grown up and been taught in a better Bi-lingual environment than say someone from NFLD or Lac St Jean.
I have been Trying to get on french course for years but I have often been denied because of "Operational Requirements" 
IE "we can't let you go you will be gone to long and we have no one to spare to take your place."


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## Edward Campbell (7 Feb 2006)

Here is the report: http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/archives/sst_es/2005/dnd_mdn/dnd_mdn_e.htm#appendixA

To say that is a cultural disconnect between DND and COL is to put it mildly.  In fairness, COL is a _one-note-wonder_.  The Act and her mandate don't tell (allow?) her to account of reality but, as one can see by reading the report, she intends to stretch the established limits by e.g. insisting that the PSC (Public Service Commission) definitions of language requirements are too 'low' and that an _intermediate_ level of bilingualism is insufficient for any level of supervisor.

FSTO's lament might become more than that: command of anything might require a high level of second language skill if Mme. Adam has her way.

Edit: spelling, twice!


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## aluc (7 Feb 2006)

This is what my tax money goes towards.....insignificant reports, and audits, and studies, and bleeding hearts, and lobby groups, and so forth.... (the list may go on for ever) I don't know...frustration is setting in .... ???  Nothing comes as a surprise anymore at the great lengths our government will travel to in order to spend our money on ensuring that everyone's feelings are taken into account. Instead of focusing on issues vital to the progress of this nation, or the vast majority of Canadians who have real problems, our tax money is spent keeping special interest groups at bay....for the time being at least.  

rant over


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## 3rd Herd (7 Feb 2006)

In my mind just another example of "how to lose a battle and win the war" Anyone for the terms of the Quebec Act ?


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## combat_medic (7 Feb 2006)

Surely this idiot reporter isn't suggesting that Second Language Training take a priority OVER operations commitments?!

I mean, having a country where everyone is speaking the same language(s) is all peachy and nice, but maybe once we've actually met our recruiting targets, and have enough people to go overseas, and proper training on all the new vehicles, and sort out all our various other problems, maybe then we can sit down and do the fluffy bunny crap.


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Feb 2006)

I don't think its the reporter per se as it is the Commissioner of Official Languages.  I may be wrong but it just seems that the reporter is reporting the findings of the Commissioner.


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## mo-litia (7 Feb 2006)

combat_medic

Surely you had enough of the fluffy bunny crap on our PLQ a few years ago?  ;D

Regards,

J


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## combat_medic (7 Feb 2006)

Hey, don't get me wrong, I actually speak fluent French and think it's a valuable skill, but surely the military has higher priorities to address than making everyone sit in language classes.

And yes, the PLQ classroom shyte is more than enough fluffy bunny for a lifetime.


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## UberCree (7 Feb 2006)

What impact would it have on the stats if they included languages other than French in the 'bilingual' catagory?


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## rifleman (7 Feb 2006)

zero. because only english and french are official.


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## 3rd Herd (7 Feb 2006)

The well established 'Francophone' protective association would never let that occur. You would think after some of the issues raised in the Somalia Inquiry that they would have learned but no, we have a new government in power and a new feed bucket to get their noses into. Which come to think of it is maybe why this article appeared.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Feb 2006)

Kids, don't get wound up about some report from a Govt. agency that, by its very nature, must make stupid reports that grab headlines in order to justify their existence, and most importantly, their budget for the next year.
Anyone notice the timing on this......?


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## Gouki (7 Feb 2006)

By George its right in time for the new FY

what a coinkidink


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## axeman (8 Feb 2006)

political correctness will override our ability to fight a war as it has overran our ability to man our Canadian Forces...


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## Laps (8 Feb 2006)

All right, got to pitch in...

Please don't make this article the reason of a FRANCO vs ANGLO war.  There is no point to it, french is the other official language, live with it!

Now, as to whether the CF needs to be completely bilingual, I think not, especially if this would be at the expense of operational requirement.  I am quite happy at the idea that our flag officers and staff officers are spending time organizing things so that we have bullets in our guns, fuel in our aircrafts and water out of our submarines.  In contrast, I would be quite upset to know that our "grown ups" are spending 1/2 of their days learning french, just to please a politician (and a few hardcore bilingualism fanatics).

Just before I get too much flak coming from "either side", I was born in La Belle Province, and speak both languages fluently.

Cheers,

Laps


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## Armymedic (8 Feb 2006)

One thing I see from this report is not that there not enough francophone senior officers, I am sure there are many (probably most) who are fluidly bilingual.

I believe its that everyone is choosing to speak English to ensure that no essential info is lost in translation.


Also, anyone tell me what this is?



> requiring “awareness sessions” on bilingualism.


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## medicineman (8 Feb 2006)

Awareness sessions - something where people waste the tax payers' money and their time to attend a seminar about something they are well aware of to keep some hack employed perhaps?

MM


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## scm77 (9 Feb 2006)

*Top brass told to be bilingual by next year*
_DND using military requirements as excuse for not training staff at headquarters, language audit finds_

Dave Rogers
The Ottawa Citizen

Thursday, February 09, 2006

The Department of National Defence must stop using military requirements as an excuse to avoid meeting bilingual requirements, Canada's Commissioner of Official Languages said yesterday, recommending that all officers with the rank of colonel or navy captain and above be bilingual by next year.

Dyane Adam said yesterday that more supervisors at Department of National Defence headquarters should be bilingual in order to respect the language rights of employees. In her latest audit, focused exclusively on management at DND, she criticized military supervisors at the headquarters on Colonel By Drive for failing to provide a truly bilingual environment.

Ms. Adam's audit, released this week, shows that 42 per cent of military officers in bilingual positions speak French and English, compared with 82 per cent throughout the federal public service. Almost 75 per cent of civilian employees are in bilingual positions at headquarters.
*
Ms. Adam said defence officials have to stop using military requirements as an excuse to avoid language training for headquarters staff. "Operational requirements has been the reason given by the Defence Department over time.*

"After 35 years of official bilingualism, most institutions have increased their bilingual capacity because they have invested in training, but we do not see that progress at National Defence.

"This is where the Defence Department has to be serious. It is not enough to say that the positions are bilingual -- the department has to ensure that the incumbents in those jobs have the skills."

The official languages report recommends that by 2007, bilingualism be a requirement for promotion for all officers who rise to the rank of colonel or naval captain. Ms. Adam said the requirement for promotion already exists, but DND has set no deadline.

Military officials, however, fired back, saying they cannot accept Ms. Adam's methods of measuring bilingual levels or the conclusions she reaches on the basis of those methods.

"We do not measure bilingualism or any other qualification by position -- we measure them by each military unit," said Lt.-Col. Brigid Dooley-Tremblay, the officer in charge of official languages at DND, arguing that it is unfair to apply the standards used to measure civilian departments to National Defence.

"We recruit people from all 10 provinces and three territories," she said. "We rotate these people through our national headquarters, but don't recruit bilingual people to spend their whole careers there.

"We do not manage our units by each position, so it is fallacious to argue that only 40 per cent of positions at headquarters are staffed by bilingual people."

The audit report is based on a survey of 1,883 of 3,450 defence employees at the headquarters between November 2004 and June 2005.

The official languages commissioner's office conducted the audit after receiving more than 40 complaints from employees about DND's failure to provide a bilingual work environment.

Ms. Adam said DND employees complained about not being supervised in their own language and a lack of French software and computer keyboards that provide French accents.

"We are telling people who are recruited that they can work in the language of their choice, but we are not delivering on that promise," she said. "The linguistic rights of young francophones are not being fully respected."

The report quotes one unnamed French-speaking employee as saying: "Bilingualism exists only for francophones and a minority of anglophones."

An English-speaking worker told investigators that French is seldom used and English always seems to predominate.

Official languages officials said middle managers and supervisors at DND headquarters do not always respect the language rights of employees or encourage them to communicate in the language of their choice. "Moreover, some managers that we interviewed stated that operational requirements took precedence over linguistic responsibilities," the report said.

"The studies we conducted at National Defence show that English is used most of the time as the operational and administrative language and that francophones have little opportunity to work in French, except in bilingual locations where their proportion is quite high."

For her part, Lt.-Col. Dooley-Tremblay said official languages measurements that count bilingual positions in the public service don't accurately measure bilingualism in the Canadian Forces. She said commanding officers are given the resources they require -- including bilingual personnel -- considered necessary to accomplish their missions.

"What we should be measuring is whether bilingual service is provided when and where required. We are adopting a new way of measuring performance that will post a percentage of bilingual personnel into units.

"It makes no sense to count up the number of bilingual people in bilingual positions in the military and use that as a measure of whether you are providing bilingual service at the counter."

Lt.-Col. Dooley-Tremblay said supervisory employees require only intermediate French. She added all officers of the rank of lieutenant-general and higher are bilingual and 70 per cent of newly-promoted colonels and naval captains are bilingual.

"We are targeting the people who have to be bilingual. Right now we are going through an extensive transformation in the Canadian Forces and are not in a position to simply send all of our brigadier generals on language training."
© The Ottawa Citizen 2006

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=ba1e0fa2-3661-4b5a-bec3-c5a68f58b297


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## combat_medic (9 Feb 2006)

"operational requirements took precedence over linguistic responsibilities"

Noooooooooo, the horror. How DARE the military think that overseas operations and international peacekeeping are a higher priority than classroom work. Who do they think they are.

The official languages commissioner seriously needs to get his head out of his arse, this is beyond ridiculous. Could you imagine what would happen if every officer Col and up spent the entirety of next year doing nothing but language training?!


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## Haggis (9 Feb 2006)

This morning, the hosts of an Ottawa morning radio show were commenting about this story.  They, too saw the connection between it's relaease date and the new fiscal year.  They also qustioned how much French is used in other HQ's.... like Kandahar.


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## Bograt (9 Feb 2006)

Having recently completed Second Language training, I have formed my own opinions about the requirement for bilingualism. As an officer who will be responsible for both anglo and francophones, it is my job to be able to communicate effectively and lead them- in either language. 

I remember the National Post did a special on the anniversary of Nelson and the battle of Trafalgar. A few days later there was a letter to the editor about it. The person said that Nelson would not be a household name if he was Canadian. Admiral Nelson spent years trying to learn french, but was not successful. He would have never been in that position if he was Canadian. Kind of a mute point considering the differences between the two countries, but it did bring a smirk to a several of our faces.

SLT is like visiting the proctologist. Some like it, most would rather be doing something else, but everyone pretty much agrees that it is a necessity to keep ones career healthy.

Can anyone else tell be what other country has an official languages department, and does annual audits of bilingualism? Thank goodness there are not other more pressing issues in Canada.


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## Edward Campbell (9 Feb 2006)

More from today’s _Ottawa Citizen_, reproduced under the fair dealing provisons of the Copyright Act.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/editorials/story.html?id=12b51170-9ff8-4660-ac4a-13bd3c1a203e 


> Fighting words
> 
> The Ottawa Citizen
> Published: Thursday, February 09, 2006
> ...



Let’s hear our new MND on this one.


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## Michael OLeary (9 Feb 2006)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Can anyone else tell be what other country has an official languages department, and does annual audits of bilingualism? Thank goodness there are not other more pressing issues in Canada.



Norway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language



> Although Norwegians are educated in both Bokmål and Nynorsk, around 86-90% use Bokmål as their daily written language, and 10%-12% use Nynorsk, although many of the spoken dialects resemble Nynorsk more closely than Bokmål, mostly in terms of vocabulary and accent. Broadly speaking, Bokmål and Riksmål are more commonly seen in urban and suburban areas; Nynorsk in rural areas, particularly in Western Norway. The Norwegian broadcasting corporation (NRK) broadcasts in both Bokmål and Nynorsk, and
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Norwegian Language Council
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Language_Council



> The Norwegian Language Council (Språkrådet in Norwegian) is the Norwegian government's advisory body in matters pertaining to the Norwegian language and language planning.
> 
> The Language Council aims to protect the cultural heritage represented by the Norwegian written and spoken language, promote initiatives to increase the knowledge of the Norwegian language, its history and distinctive quality, promote tolerance and mutual respect among all users of Norwegian in its different varieties, and protect the rights of each citizen with regard to the use of the Norwegian language.
> 
> ...


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## 54/102 CEF (9 Feb 2006)

Just my opinion

The requirement to parlez vous is on a sliding scale - the higher up you go the more you have to parlez

Its also related to contact with the other language group

Some of my young relatives in Quebec speak both and some can`t get the hang of it.

In short - if you want it - you can get it

Where DND falls flat on their face is helping you get a second language skill - eg: you`ll have the time of your life if you can speak to the locals at Vimy Ridge - or Dieppe - or Juno Beach ------ and you`ll have a dull cloud in your head if you can`t.

So for those of you (most of you) with the can do attitude which marks most Canadian Soldiers as as hard to handle as a pure bred puppy who just wants to hunt ducks and to heck with his master- heres`s my idea

Download the language MP3 files here 

Check this out - French language MP3 files you cna download and put on an MP3player. The second one seems very well done

http://www.frenchpodcasting.com/

http://www.frenchpodclass.com/ --------- > this is the best one

Run through them all

Then bug your chain of command silly to get on franco trg --- you`ll have a skill that no body can take away from you and will enhance your army life.

Languages aren't for everybody - but a little effort will payoff. If nothing else you'll be able to follow Hockey Night in Canada in French - or Grand Prix Racing - just watch the news

Believe me - the French Weather Channel Girls are very easy on the eyes


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## GINge! (10 Feb 2006)

Interesting:

*This despite the finding that 27 per cent of National Defence's troops and staff are francophones, a greater proportion than in the general population.*


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## Brad Sallows (10 Feb 2006)

The argument that senior leaders should be able to lead in both official languages is sound.

The argument that operations override other considerations is sound.

We want bilingualism, but we also want the first selection criterion for our commanders and operators to be the aptitude to achieve the aim with the least consumption of resources and fewest possible casualities.

If operational exigencies are impacting language training negatively, there are two readily obvious alternatives:
1) Reduce optempo.
2) Increase personnel funding to the CF in order to increase the number of people holding senior ranks in order to maintain the critical fraction of people who must be undergoing language training at any particular time.

Reducing military aptitude selection in order to accommodate a larger number of fluently bilingual people is an option, but not an ethical option.


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## 54/102 CEF (10 Feb 2006)

The operations aren`t where the gap is - the people lacking language skills should get with it just like we all have to get with it on the Express Trg. 

Its easy to say and harder to do - somewhere they have to pick it up - early is better.

Or - how about - you don`t fit the language achievement profile - and have not demonstrated a desire to meet it so your capped for promotions until you do. 

Tell them early and there will be a beeline to upgrade. 

Can`t be done you say? How do immigrants learn then -----------> MOTIVATION is how

To say this ain`t right (Offical language Police) or Op Tempo made me do it is avoiding the question.


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## George Wallace (13 Feb 2006)

This Dyane Adam, commissioner of official languages, also wants the Department of National Defence to meet other bilingual requirements, such as providing computer keyboards that provide French accents.  I don't know about many of you, but I have noticed a lot of the new DND keyboards have extra keys on them.  For instance, there is a new key found between the left Shift Key and the "Z" Key.  If you type with two fingers this may not prove a problem, but if you are a skilled or rather skilled typist, who uses all fingers and thumbs, that extra key gets in the way.  Instead of typing.....say.... "Here I am.", I land up typing something like this: "/ere / am."  Now, take a skilled clerk or secretary and have them type several pages of documents and then wonder why they have wasted extra time having to proof read and correct needless mistakes.  A monumental waste of money, time and resources.

Anyway, just my pet peeve with all those new keyboards.   :


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## Brad Sallows (13 Feb 2006)

People have more difficulty learning new languages as they grow older.  The system needs to be capable of dealing with people who are past university age before they make a serious attempt to acquire their "other" official language.  I suspect most can learn to function adequately, but some will not be able to attain sufficient fluency to not misunderstand or miscommunicate under conditions of significant stress.


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## Gunnerlove (13 Feb 2006)

Wow being able to say my marksmanship training is lacking in both official languages.

What a goal, far better than building a capable deployable military that speaks the same language as the rest of NATO.


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## Bigmac (1 Dec 2006)

> Military changing approach to bilingualism; Only those in leadership roles will need language training


The CF now has a new approach to biligualism. Now only Col and above and SNCO CWO must be bilingual. All others can now breathe a sigh as they will no longer have a career stopping sword hanging over their head because they are not getting french language training. Is it the right thing to do, many will debate? Personally I believe with the CF so strapped for personnel they felt the need to lax the language requirements so that certain officers and SNCOs could be promoted into much needed positions. The language police will be on the attack for sure but we have a military to run and life ain't always fair. Don't worry I am sure in 10 yrs when our numbers get back up the language training will come back full force as long as Quebec is still with us?


http://veritas.mil.ca/showfile.asp?Lang=E&URL=/Clips/National/061201/f02697NA.htm


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## George Wallace (1 Dec 2006)

Bigmac said:
			
		

> http://veritas.mil.ca/showfile.asp?Lang=E&URL=/Clips/National/061201/f02697NA.htm



Is your link only accessible on the DIN?


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## Bigmac (1 Dec 2006)

Sorry about that, here is a more user friendly link.

http://www.canoe.ca/ChronicleHerald/news4.html


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## George Wallace (1 Dec 2006)

Bigmac said:
			
		

> Sorry about that, here is a more user friendly link.
> 
> http://www.canoe.ca/ChronicleHerald/news4.html



Doesn't this guy have any brains?   What a shit-disturber and truly ignorant twit this talking-head is.



> One defence analyst questioned whether the military is taking advantage of the fact that there is a Conservative government in power to make the changes.
> 
> "There is no doubt there is an anti-Quebec odour to a lot of their support base," said Steve Staples, of the left-leaning Polaris Institute, based in Ottawa.
> 
> ...



Obviously someone made a mistake in taking Mr. Staples credentials at face value.  This guy has no clues at all of what he is critiquing.  The sad thing is he gets published in the Press as an expert on military affairs, of which we are seeing more and more every time he opens his mouth, he knows nothing about.  No wonder the public are confused and know little about the CF.

Does Mr. Staples not know that the International Language in the 'Air' is English, as it is at 'Sea'?


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## rmacqueen (1 Dec 2006)

One of the beefs I always had about bilingualism in the CF was the ability requirements for most positions.  If someone whose primary language is french is posted to an english unit they only need to be "workable" in english.  If someone who speaks english is posted to a french unit they have to be able to speak "fluent" french.  Why the difference?


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## Bigmac (1 Dec 2006)

> He also wondered how the new language policy will impact the military’s operational capability.
> 
> "Could we see a situation where soldiers in the field are unable to communicate with other members of the Canadian Forces, perhaps in a combat situation where communication is crucial?" Mr. Staples said.



      Gee, I don't know how we will communicate ? Give me a break. If it is such a problem why is Valcartier deploying troops when the most used language on operations is english. Why, because military pers adapt and there are still plenty of bilingual people in the CF to interpret orders to those who do not understand. It is getting blown out of proportion.


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## Scott57 (1 Dec 2006)

Perhaps the Commissioner of Official Languages should look elsewhere to solve this problem .....like perhaps educating are youth *(English and French)* from the time they enter grade school. No exception !
Why does this problem persist. Use Sweden as an example (there are other examples). English is taught as a second language at an early age. You will be hard pressed to find a Swede (younger then 50) who can not converse in English and do it well. Yet we have two Official languages and we're still debating ...still fighting.


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## George Wallace (1 Dec 2006)

Scott57 said:
			
		

> Perhaps the Commissioner of Official Languages should look elsewhere to solve this problem .....like perhaps educating are youth *(English and French)* from the time they enter grade school. No exception !
> Why does this problem persist. Use Sweden as an example (there are other examples). English is taught as a second language at an early age. You will be hard pressed to find a Swede (younger then 50) who can not converse in English and do it well. Yet we have two Official languages and we're still debating ...still fighting.



Good question.  Why is it that here in Canada, learning another language is a divisive issue instead of an unifying one?  Why is it in Canada you can speak several languages, but unless you speak both French Quebecois and English you are not considered bilingual?   ???


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## hank011 (1 Dec 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Good question.  Why is it that here in Canada, learning another language is a divisive issue instead of an unifying one?  Why is it in Canada you can speak several languages, but unless you speak both French Quebecois and English you are not considered bilingual?   ???


 Learning French is probably not the divisive angle, discrimination against non-billingual people is.
 Require public servants in Quebec to be fluent in Latin or Gaelic and it will have the same result. Some will immediately have an advantage at the expense of others and will rise to positions of power by excluding average citizens based on their language.


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## George Wallace (1 Dec 2006)

hank011 said:
			
		

> Learning French is probably not the divisive angle, discrimination against non-billingual people is.


Sorry.  That was what I was thinking, but not typing..... ;D

It is getting so bad that non-bilingual people can not get jobs in lower level government jobs in Municipalities and that some Municipalities and Provinces are legislating to the Private Sector that language requirements are necessary.  Could that force a majority of our 'talent' to emigrate South?


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## Brad Sallows (1 Dec 2006)

>"Could we see a situation where soldiers in the field are unable to communicate with other members of the Canadian Forces, perhaps in a combat situation where communication is crucial?" Mr. Staples said.

He should ask someone knowledgeable about military matters, who could answer the question by examining Canadian participation in past wars.


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## hank011 (1 Dec 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry.  That was what I was thinking, but not typing..... ;D
> 
> It is getting so bad that non-bilingual people can not get jobs in lower level government jobs in Municipalities and that some Municipalities and Provinces are legislating to the Private Sector that language requirements are necessary.  Could that force a majority of our 'talent' to emigrate South?


Not sure about going south but I know a few MWO's in several trades that retired early partly due to a proposed minimum language profile for CWO.
In addition...since we can now cruise the internal PSAC offerings...you will be hard pressed to find unilingual(french or english) jobs in the public service that are permanent or that pay over 45K. Having seen the entire process in action, I know this is sometimes because they have a friend/family member/co-worker in mind when they post it and want to make sure that person is picked. Other times it is in the NCR and it is totally necessary.
Requiring it outside of French speaking regions is suspicious at best.


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## neilinkorea (2 Dec 2006)

I often have wondered about the attitude of we "average" Canadians towards bilingualism.  I grew up in an English speaking region of the country and feel that the general opinion of most Anglos is that French is forced on them.  My limited knowledge of Quebec and French Canada tells me that the Francophones have a similar opinion of English as well as the fear that their culture is beion replaced by ours.  We need to see bilingualism for the gift that it is: a way to understand a different group of people and a way of life. I have lived in Korea for 4 years working as an English teacher.  I speak Korean much better than French, even though I studied French from 2nd grade through high school. Language learning comes through living another culture and its customs.  Just changing English to French in a classroom does not give functional French ability to most learners.  I see the CF as being in a unique situation, in that it coulf facilitate(if not mandate) exchange programs between units in English and French speaking Canada.  Living and working in Quebec for a year or two will learm you some French right quick. Necessity is the mother of invention.  I feel it also provides the best environment for language learning.  I teach Korean children, whose parents spends hundreds of dollars each month to teach them English, who will never be proficient English speakers.  Last week I met a drunk "hobo type" man on a bus who was fluent in English because he spent summers as a teenager working in his uncle's store in Toronto. Exposure is the key to learning a language, but most of us don't want to go to Quebec. If we focus on learning to use French rather than becoming bilingual it will work much better.  Bilingualism is a test score or a govt benchmark that the politicians can throw arount to please Quebec voters.  Learn french don't get caught up in the numbers game.
Sorry to ramble.  As you can see not only has my Korean gotten better during my time in Korea, but my English has gotten worse ;D


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## rmacqueen (2 Dec 2006)

neilinkorea said:
			
		

> I see the CF as being in a unique situation, in that it coulf facilitate(if not mandate) exchange programs between units in English and French speaking Canada.  Living and working in Quebec for a year or two will learm you some French right quick. Necessity is the mother of invention.


That would cost $$$$ that the CF currently does not have.  A lot of the problem with the bilingual requirements has to do with training limitations.  I, myself, requested language training for 10 years in a row and never got it because of space limitations on the courses.  Perhaps, if it is so important, there should be separate funding from outside the DND budget to train people in a second language since, IMO, it has more to do with politics than military requirements.  After all, if a second language is an actual need then should we not be learning an Asian language?  It seems to me that Asian immigrants are rapidly supplanting french as the second largest linguistic group in Canada.


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## George Wallace (2 Dec 2006)

neilinkorea said:
			
		

> .  I see the CF as being in a unique situation, in that it coulf facilitate(if not mandate) exchange programs between units in English and French speaking Canada.  Living and working in Quebec for a year or two will learm you some French right quick. Necessity is the mother of invention.  I feel it also provides the best environment for language learning.



A good idea and it is in fact being done.  However, demographics do not allow for any large scale numbers of Anglophones going to Francophone Units.  There is only one Bde Gp in Valcartier and an Air Base in Bagotville that would permit such exchanges and as such are greatly outnumbered by the number of Bases that are in the English or Bilingual Status category.  If we posted a Bde worth of Anglophones to Valcartier, then we would have a Bde worth of English speaking people still working in their native tongue and a Bde worth of Francophones scattered throughout several Bases learning English.   As is, there are many Francophones serving on English Status Bases and becoming quite bilingual.  While we had Bases in Europe, these same people were becoming multi-lingual.  

It is too easy to say, put the Anglos into French Units, but the reality is there are 80% more of them than the 20% Francos.  (Percentages are not accurate)  It is easier for a minority to get into another culture and learn from immersion, than it is for a majority to flood a minority and thus distroy any chance of immersion as they have overwhelmed the minority.  No chance of immersion then.


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