# Canine units in or Contracted to Canadian Armed Forces



## Noble6 (11 Jun 2013)

Hey all, first time poster here but long time reader.. (And not  exactly sure what board to post this thread in)

I'll start off by stating I'm not currently in the forces, (reserves or regular) but have been looking at joining for quite some time. 
My questions are these: 
- Are there any occupations in the combat arms that utilize a canine and it's handler? 
- If so does anyone have experience as a handler or worked in a unit alongside one?
- I'm assuming the recruiting process is done internally if there is such a position.. if so are there any specific combat arms that I should apply to in order to get off on the right foot? (Not looking for any shortcuts, just wondering what positions are eligible for this type of work) 
The reason I ask is because I've been a volunteer with my local humane society for a couple years now and would love to be able to work with dogs in a tactical environment. (Would this help in regards to handling experience?) 

Any info on the topic is appreciated!


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## MikeL (11 Jun 2013)

The only dog handlers I've seen/am aware of(in regards to what you are referring to) are contractors, not CF pers. I don't know if the MPs have any or if they use local LEO for their needs as required.


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## mariomike (11 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> Any info on the topic is appreciated!



You may find some here.

K9 unit
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/39676.0;nowap

K9 Units  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16872.0/nowap.html

Does the CF use Shepherds?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/72171.0.html


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## Noble6 (11 Jun 2013)

Thanks for the links mariomike! So apparently the only units utilizing a canine are the MP's and those dogs aren't even trained through the CF.. I'm assuming that the training for the handler is provided by a 3rd party then as well? 
Quite frankly it doesn't seem like canines are used much whatsoever by the CF. (I'll leave my opinion on how utterly ridiculous that seems out of it lol.) 

Again, thanks for the time and links rather than the old "google it" response. 
Cheers!


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## MikeL (11 Jun 2013)

Noble6,  dogs are/were used quite a bit by the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan, but the dog handlers were contractors AFAIK.

http://www.armee.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/news-nouvelles/story-reportage-eng.asp?id=5025

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/forces-planning-to-expand-use-of-sniffer-dog-teams/article1206842/?service=mobile


If you want to be a dog handler consider the Police, after X amount of years, you may be able to try out to be one.


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## UnwiseCritic (11 Jun 2013)

You could always go Brits, I think they have it as a job within the forces.


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## rampage800 (11 Jun 2013)

N6

There are dogs and handlers in the CF and they're not all with the MPs, you can draw your own conclusions after that.


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## Towards_the_gap (11 Jun 2013)

I'll answer your first question. I was a combat engineer who had a contractor K9 team attached for the duration of our tour. The dog was an 'AES' dog, Arms and Explosives Search, and it's job was simply that, to sniff for those items. However,  to be honest, I cannot think of a time when the dog found something my guys didn't find already. Due to the high threat it wasn't a case of letting fido go bouncing off and sit when he wanted to indicate a find, rather we used the dog as QA for our own searches, and as stated, he never found anything we missed. Now either I had some awesome searchers in my section (which I know I did) or the dog was too cooked by the heat to be able to work effectively, I think it was both. Regardless, it gave a nice feeling to the infantry to have my guys go over every inch of a piece of real estate, followed by 70lbs of German landshark casting around with his nose on the floor. They knew the area was clear once we were done with it.

That and it was nice to have a section mascot. The yank handler that is haha, we promoted the dog to MCpl.


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## Loachman (11 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> (I'll leave my opinion on how utterly ridiculous that seems out of it lol.)



Good idea.


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## dimsum (11 Jun 2013)

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> You could always go Brits, I think they have it as a job within the forces.



Same with the RAAF.


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

rampage800 said:
			
		

> N6
> 
> There are dogs and handlers in the CF and they're not all with the MPs, you can draw your own conclusions after that.



Care to elaborate? Any information I've found so far about canine handlers in the CF all states that the positions are contracted out to American companies. 
(aside from the drugs and firearm's labradors that the MP's use..)

Here is a quote from an article about the CF doubling the number of contracted canine teams in Afghanistan..
 "The Canadians are the easiest to work with because they have the best logistical system to get people and dogs in and out; their soldiers have no experience with dogs so they leave our handlers to do their jobs, whereas U.S. forces have often worked with dogs before and think they know what to do."  (taken from "Dogs of war" article found on Canada.com) 

Again any info is appreciated.


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## poinf (12 Jun 2013)

If I am not mistaken , a dog handler and his pooch just arrived in petawawa not that long ago. ( military police)


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## George Wallace (12 Jun 2013)

poinf said:
			
		

> If I am not mistaken , a dog handler and his pooch just arrived in petawawa not that long ago. ( military police)



Over the decades, there have been dog handlers and dogs in Pet.  They were not a permanent fixture in any unit there.


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong - but its starting to look like when the CF need a canine to get a job done.. they call one in from somewhere else rather than maintaining their own unit. Not surprising but a little disappointing!


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## Smirnoff123 (12 Jun 2013)

Then apply to a contracting company?


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

C.G.R said:
			
		

> Then apply to a contracting company?



Heck if you know any Canadian canine contractors.. let me know! Till then looks like I better start practicing the PATI.. 

Thanks again for the prompt and informative responses folks


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## MikeL (12 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> Heck if you know any Canadian canine contractors.. let me know! Till then looks like I better start practicing the PATI..



I doubt a company would hire you to be a dog handler, just because of your experience working as a volunteer with the humane society.  They typically want people who are actually trained/experienced in the jobs they hire for.  


Before you were interested in the Military, now because you won't be able to work as a dog handler you are changing to the Police?  Doesn't seem like you were that serious about joining the CF after all. So, now that you are shifting to the Police Force, you should probably do quite a bit of research into being a LEO and making sure it is what you want.  There is no guarantee you will be able to work with dogs as a constable, and you will have to put in a few years in before you will be able to try out for these types of units, provided there is a opening.  You will also be competing against others for those openings as well.


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## Smirnoff123 (12 Jun 2013)

The only way you are realistically going to become a dog handler is by wprking your way through the ranks of an organization that utilizes them, police, CBSA, SAR organizations etc. Even then it will not be certain.


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

skeletor I'm quite aware of the fact that I won't get hired into a canine unit right off the bat and I've been interested in becoming a police officer for several years now. I wasn't assuming whatsoever that my volunteer animal handling experience would qualify me for anything - just mentioning it. I've only now been considering military since my province doesn't seem to think policing is something that needs to be funded, and I'm drawn to the discipline and training that the CF demands. I'm definitely not eliminating joining the force solely because it doesn't have canine teams -  just a little disappointed. Armored recce would also be a great gig. 

Thanks!


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## Teager (12 Jun 2013)

Noble6 I was bored and did a quick google search. Not sure what province you are from but for ontario you can work security as a K9 handler. See link below. They will train.

http://www.llewellynsecurity.com/jobpage/jobframe.htm


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

Teager said:
			
		

> Noble6 I was bored and did a quick google search. Not sure what province you are from but for ontario you can work security as a K9 handler. See link below. They will train.
> 
> http://www.llewellynsecurity.com/jobpage/jobframe.htm



Nice find!! I'll be sure to give them a ring as I've already got most of the training / licensing. Thanks eh!


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## Loachman (12 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> Correct me if I'm wrong - but its starting to look like when the CF need a canine to get a job done.. they call one in from somewhere else rather than maintaining their own unit. Not surprising but a little disappointing!



If there was a continuing need, and it was high enough up the priority list, we would have dogs.


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

Loachman said:
			
		

> If there was a continuing need, and it was high enough up the priority list, we would have dogs.



I'll be careful here as I'm not a member of the forces.. but it seems like there's a few high priority things that are quite needed by the military that it doesn't have. Now could you explain what would be a better explosive / threat detecting / room clearing tool than a Belgian Malinois? Not trying to start an argument just looking to learn and confused as to why the CF wouldn't want their soldiers having the best advantage out there! Again I'm no expert on these matters and judging from your status on these forums you're probably a lot more knowledgeable on the matter than I. 

-sorry for straying a bit off topic-


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## Towards_the_gap (12 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> Now could you explain what would be a better explosive / threat detecting / room clearing tool than a Belgian Malinois? Not trying to start an argument just looking to learn and confused as to why the CF wouldn't want their soldiers having the best advantage out there!



Did you read my answer?

The best, absolute best tool for explosive threat detection and clearance (which is my understanding of what you were trying to say) is a soldier. But not just any soldier....A Sapper.

80% of that job is not science or technology but intuition, training, thinking outside the box and thorough, maddening attention to detail.


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## Noble6 (12 Jun 2013)

Fair enough, as you mentioned in your previous post you've had experience in the field with a canine unit whereas I've had none.. maybe i'll get into the sapper trade and hope in the future that I'll get an opportunity to be trained in handling. 
Thanks for the enlightenment !


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## MikeL (12 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> Now could you explain what would be a better ........ room clearing tool than a Belgian Malinois?



How about a group of skilled gunfighters ?  

DDs and frag grenades are handy too


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## shaGuar (16 Jun 2013)

I just came off a an Urban Search and Rescue course in Manitoba and they happened to be training dogs for JTF-2 while I was there and I got the opportunity to work with them in terms of searching buildings and such. Much respect is given to them. They are so helpful.


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## Kat Stevens (16 Jun 2013)

There are de-mining companies that found rats were every bit if not more capable of explosive detection as dogs.  They are also cheaper, easier to train, and are less likely to lose their focus than the dogs.


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## Towards_the_gap (17 Jun 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> There are de-mining companies that found rats were every bit if not more capable of explosive detection as dogs.  They are also cheaper, easier to train, and are less likely to lose their focus than the dogs.



But try selling that to a donor. 

And for all the wonderful inventions dreamt up by the demining community (the bozena anyone?), nothing ever beat a dude with a prodder.


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## daftandbarmy (17 Jun 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> But try selling that to a donor.
> 
> And for all the wonderful inventions dreamt up by the demining community (the bozena anyone?), nothing ever beat a dude with a prodder.




I know a guy who's done that work. We nick named him 'Blind, One legged Paul'. Ex-Royal Engineer Officer working for a contactor who got blown up prodding for mines in some shite hole.

Bring on the rats, dogs and the fecktards who planted the things in the first place, is all I can say.


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## mariomike (17 Jun 2013)

shaGuar said:
			
		

> I just came off a an Urban Search and Rescue course in Manitoba and they happened to be training dogs for JTF-2 while I was there and I got the opportunity to work with them in terms of searching buildings and such.



I've seen Toronto Heavy Urban Search and Rescue ( HUSAR ) train with dogs.

"HUSAR dog ready for rubble":
 http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=5810&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

But, when Toronto HUSAR was sent to the mall collapse at Elliot Lake, rescue dogs could not be used. 
"Even manoeuvres using a rescue dog would be too risky":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/elliot-lake-rescue-mission-halted-as-collapsed-mall-deemed-unsafe/article4369654/


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## JesseWZ (17 Jun 2013)

There are MP K-9 units. In my brief career I have seen various dogs perform various functions for MPs.


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## Noble6 (17 Jun 2013)

Thanks for the info and first hand experiences guys, that's why I posted on these forums in the first place! I've never really consider the SaR route for a canine handling career.. to my knowledge those positions are mostly volunteer?


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## mariomike (17 Jun 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> I've never really consider the SaR route for a canine handling career.. to my knowledge those positions are mostly volunteer?



Toronto HUSAR dog handlers are TPS officers.
http://www.toronto.ca/wes/techservices/oem/husar/capabilities.htm

"The Search component will be managed by Toronto Police Services. Staffing will include Search Managers, K-9 Search Specialists, and Technical Search Specialists."


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## Precept (9 Jul 2013)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> There are MP K-9 units. In my brief career I have seen various dogs perform various functions for MPs.


They're being phased out. I'm pretty sure we're down to one dog now(In Esq.), and after he is retired, there will be no more.


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## JesseWZ (9 Jul 2013)

I work in Esquimalt, you're incorrect for parts of your post. We have a dog in Pet. The Esquimalt dog (Roxie) has already retired.


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## teabag87 (16 Jul 2013)

The British forces offer 'Dog Handling' and/or RCMP dog handling which can branch out into different types of training.

You may not like the suggestions, but it's all I have.


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## Noble6 (16 Jul 2013)

Hey an answer is an answer regardless if I like it or not, so I appreciate it! In fact this is good to hear as I'm in the recruiting process for reservist MP (interview with the captain this week) and if I understand correctly after 2-3 years of training I'll be eligible for a lateral transfer to the RCMP. That is if I score high enough on my CFAT.. little off topic but does anyone know the %ile I need to score for MP?


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## teabag87 (16 Jul 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> That is if I score high enough on my CFAT.. little off topic but does anyone know the %ile I need to score for MP?



For me personally I qualified for all combat arms in the NCM component. I struggled with the Problem Solving, but scored well enough on everything else. I heard that MP is not as hard to get into as you may think. Based on what I think, my rough estimate may be scoring at least 75-80% on all three parts. Again it is just an educated guess, but it seems reasonable.


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## mariomike (16 Jul 2013)

Noble6 said:
			
		

> In fact this is good to hear as I'm in the recruiting process for reservist MP (interview with the captain this week) and if I understand correctly after 2-3 years of training I'll be eligible for a lateral transfer to the RCMP.



"We are currently seeking experienced police officers for vacancies across Canada including Canadian Forces Military Police trained after the year 2000."
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/rec/lateral-eng.htm#req

To avoid disappointment, you may wish to confirm if that includes Reserve, or if it is limited to Regular Force MP only. 

Some discussion of that here.

MP to RCMP  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50239.0


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## Noble6 (17 Jul 2013)

mariomike said:
			
		

> "We are currently seeking experienced police officers for vacancies across Canada including Canadian Forces Military Police trained after the year 2000."
> http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/rec/lateral-eng.htm#req
> 
> To avoid disappointment, you may wish to confirm if that includes Reserve, or if it is limited to Regular Force MP only.
> ...



I haven't been able to find out if it is a strictly reg force opportunity, however to my knowledge the reservist MP's are now being trained in almost the exact same fashion as the reg force folks.. (I believe I saw an interview with the Provost Marshall in which he explained the reasoning behind it) so I can't see why they wouldn't take a reservist. However if not I don't mind, I'm enlisting in the army to serve my country rather than to fast track into the RCMP! It would just be an added bonus. 
In regards to the CFAT score, this is encouraging.. I'll just be sure to complete some math tutoring before hand as I'm quite confident in my literacy and spatial abilities. 
Thanks all!


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## K9Force (11 Mar 2019)

Is there any canine Arms and Explosive detection units in the CF? I know as far as I can see just MPs. But with searching the subject I cannot find anything. But is there a canine unit contractor the CF uses, that is Canadian based that I could join? I’m interested in joining Infantry, but am very curious if there’s a canine unit I could join?


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## 211RadOp (12 Mar 2019)

The CAF does not have a canine unit.


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