# EXPRESS VS 13KM



## orange.paint (20 May 2006)

Hey just a quick question for anyone who knows out there.Asked a bunch of people at work about this yet got many different answers.Couldn't find anything to concrete it either.

Q: If you are exempt on express test do you still complete the 13km for that year?

a: yes,combat arms unit gotta do 13km express is for those who fail it.

a:no,its one or the other.

a:maybe, its up to CO discretion.

I am except for 2 years (who isn't) and it was the first time i have completed it since 2000,as we always done the 13km instead.Now before someone jumps on it I really don't mind the stroll of a relaxing 13km but hell if I'm exempt why bother.

Anyone have concrete info on this?

thanks


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## hoosierdaddy (20 May 2006)

I thought the 13 k was only for the recruit course?


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## Nfld Sapper (20 May 2006)

hoosierdaddy said:
			
		

> I thought the 13 k was only for the recruit course?



Nope the 13km is part of the Battlefield Fitness Test or BFT you walk around with a loaded pack and complete the course in under 3 hrs (? correct if wrong).


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## orange.paint (20 May 2006)

Yes 13km is the bft all regular force (not sure about res) army units use it in place of the express test.If you fail the 13km you end up doing the express test.

Now my question was if you are exempt the express test 
i.e level 12 on run
    50pu
    55 su

I was exempt for two years.
Now I have not completed my BFT yet this year and was wondering if I needed to also do the BFT.I had to do the express test due to being on course

ps BFT is 2hrs20min 20 sec and quite slow....3hrs would be a crawl lol!

Concrete answers would be appreciated.
thanks


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## 17thRecceSgt (20 May 2006)

Our HQ is "either-or".  Thats for Reg and Res.  Either the Army Fitness Test or the EXPRES Test.  You can "opt" to do both but its not mandatory.  Alot of people don't want to "bother" with the workup trng for AFT and there are some that just don't have the time so they have no choice but EXPRES.

I am not sure of the actual policy but I DO know at our HQ, if you get Exempt on the EXPRES, you are Exempt from either of the tests...but can't confirm the policy on it....

Mud


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## Fishbone Jones (20 May 2006)

While the two can be used equally for the PER (IIRC) I don't think if your Combat Arms you'll not have to do it because your Express exempt. If I'm not mistaken the 13k BFT is part of the combat readiness for combat arms. Just a guess.


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## George Wallace (20 May 2006)

As a member of a Cbt Arms Unit, not ERE, then you will have to do the BFT annually.  If you fail, then you must pass the Express Test.

If you are ERE, you will have the option of doing either/or.  

Even though passing the Express Test may exempt you for two years, in a Cbt Arms Unit, you will find that you will still have to do the BFT.  Those exemptions of two years aren't worth the 'Express Test' paper they are written on.   ;D


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## orange.paint (20 May 2006)

Lol yep those are the answers I got at work also! Anyone got anything written?I only got qr&o's on my computer.

Just a thing of intrest to be now.
I'm tending to lean towards George,although in 2000 in petawawa RCD we did only the express test in B sqn and no BFT due to time constraints in training that year.

anything concrete?
thanks so far guys


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## George Wallace (20 May 2006)

Don't forget, the BFT is a "Battle Fitness Test" that the Brigade Commander expects to qualify his Bde as part of his Bde Readiness Tests that then sees the results/scores go up higher.  It is one of the Army's ways of making sure it is "ready to go" when called upon.  

The Express Test is a physical fitness test that is used to judge if CF members, as a whole, are maintaining their fitness.  Both are different tests, for different reasons.  The BFT, however, will give you credit for passing the Express Test (bonus), while the Express Test will not give you credit for the BFT.  

The GOC's was also a 'Readiness Test'; as were the Annual ATI, and other Tests/Inspections of that type.


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## orange.paint (20 May 2006)

Ok but what about us poor dragoons tossed to the far reaches of gagetown...who had to rip winnie the poo off our DEU?We aint operational and aint attached to a brigade.

p.s I do longer than 13km with the wife in walmart! ;D

Just so I can pass on this if I ever get asked.


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## George Wallace (20 May 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> Ok but what about us poor dragoons tossed to the far reaches of gagetown...who had to rip winnie the poo off our DEU?We aint operational and aint attached to a brigade.



So what are you asking?

I am sure that if you so choose, you can go and do a BFT with one of the Courses being run.  As you are no longer part of a Cbt Arms Unit in a Bde, then you don't have to do the BFT.  You will do what the School requires of you.  If they require you to do the EXPRESS TEST, then that is what you do.  Nothing complicated about that.  Shake your head.


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## orange.paint (20 May 2006)

head shaking...


			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Don't forget, the BFT is a "Battle Fitness Test" that the Brigade Commander expects to qualify his Bde as part of his Bde Readiness Tests that then sees the results/scores go up higher.



We are not in a brigade that was all I was referring to.I know ,do as army says etc but looked in files to find anything on it and have not found anything.

looking for concrete evidence of completion of BFT excludes express, express excludes BFT or not.
I'm not looking to start a flame war,just maintaining situational awareness ,seeking information, keeping current.

thanks


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## hoosierdaddy (20 May 2006)

I don't think you're starting a flame war.

What I don't understand is if one could do the express test because they failed the BFT, what is the point of the BFT?  I would think ALL combat arms personnel would be required to pass the BFT, not take a shot at passing the express test because they sucked at the BFT.


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## George Wallace (20 May 2006)

hoosierdaddy said:
			
		

> I don't think you're starting a flame war.
> 
> What I don't understand is if one could do the express test because they failed the BFT, what is the point of the BFT?  I would think ALL combat arms personnel would be required to pass the BFT, not take a shot at passing the express test because they sucked at the BFT.



It isn't Rocket Science, it is a "Readiness Check".  If you can not pass the BFT, then you have to pass the Express Test as it is supposedly easier and doesn't involve 'stamina'.   The Express Test is the standard physical fitness level for the CF, while the BFT is the Standard Battle Fitness Test for Army Bdes.  If you are not in an Army Bde, then you don't have to do the BFT.   

Are Jerry's Kids online tonight?


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## buzgo (20 May 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If you are not in an Army Bde, then you don't have to do the BFT.



I have to do it and I'm not in an Army Bde... That is not an accurate statement.


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## hoosierdaddy (20 May 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It isn't Rocket Science, it is a "Readiness Check".  If you can not pass the BFT, then you have to pass the Express Test as it is supposedly easier and doesn't involve 'stamina'.   The Express Test is the standard physical fitness level for the CF, while the BFT is the Standard Battle Fitness Test for Army Bdes.  If you are not in an Army Bde, then you don't have to do the BFT.
> 
> Are Jerry's Kids online tonight?



Well, one of them were when you posted, no?  I think you missed my point.  Maybe you will get it now? Then again, maybe not. :rage:

I was talking about COMBAT SOLDIERS!  If a COMBAT SOLDIER fails the BFT, what good is it for him to pass an express test?  If he's a COMBAT SOLDIER (which is what I was talking about), he should have to pass the BFT (which is what I said).


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## paracowboy (20 May 2006)

kids, I think our big problem here, is that NOBODY really understands the policy, or employs it properly. It usually comes down to the whims of certain commanders.

I think what we need here, is someone online from Work to do a little digging into the CANFORGENS and such for the definitive word. Which will be ignored by everyone, anyway.


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## hoosierdaddy (20 May 2006)

Maybe so paracowboy.  But I still think a combat soldier should have to pass the BFT, otherwise they should get rid of it.


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## paracowboy (20 May 2006)

hoosierdaddy said:
			
		

> Maybe so paracowboy.  But I still think a combat soldier should have to pass the BFT, otherwise they should get rid of it.


heeeellllll YES! In fact, they should go back to the old 2 x 10. This thing is a freakin' joke. I passed it after being on T-Cat for 12 months, and I wasn't allowed to hump a ruck for that entire time.

3RCR had you do a 10 km ruck march once a week. The BFT was actually easier, because you had way more time, and far less weight. 3VP does the same, and includes the Cooper's Test as mandatory PT testing. There's no reason the same policy can't be implemented across the board.

But this equine has been flagellated beyond expiration on numerous threads.


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## hoosierdaddy (20 May 2006)

On this I agree with you paracowboy. 

When I was in the reserves I believe we only did an 8 km march down the highway.  Fun fun.


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## buzgo (21 May 2006)

Where I work, we have to get exempt on the EXPRES, pass the BFT and attempt to get 75 on the Cooper's test (as a personal fitness check but mandated by the boss). Lots of people are nervous and I hope that it will encourage them to leave...


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## Teddy Ruxpin (21 May 2006)

:brickwall:

The BFT is the Army standard for physical fitness, and will be performed by (1) all designated Army units, which includes the field force and - here in Western Canada - formation and Area HQs as well.  All pers employed 180 days or more are to be tested.  Indeed, I believe that Land Staff is also (this year) doing the BFT rather than the Expres Test.  The BFT, as you can doubtless find in a 1000 other threads here, is a 13 km march followed by a 100 m casualty carry (plus a "trench dig" for those so lucky).  The march must be completed in 2 hours and 26 minutes.

Successful completion of the BFT gives an equivalency to "Exempt" status on the Expres Test - your "exempt" bubble is filled in on your PER.  Failure of the BFT has no career implication, but you MUST pass a subsequent Expres test to avoid sanction.  However, you cannot deploy on an Army-generated mission without completion of the BFT.

In short:  the BFT is the Army standard, while the Expres test is the CF standard.  The BFT is regarded as the higher of the two and as equivalent to "gold" standard on the Expres test therefore you get "exempt Expres testing" upon BFT completion.

Under the new rules, *all* Army pers - Regular and Reserve must pass BFT or Expres testing.  However, if you're like the vast majority of soldiers, you'll be tested on the BFT first and only move to the Expres test if you fail.  You don't get to choose.

There's an LFCO this provides direction on this entire subject, as well as a CANFORGEN that was released last week.


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## orange.paint (21 May 2006)

Thanks Teddy.
 Thats was what I was looking for. I'll have to wait to get back to work to check the canforgens.

Cheers


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