# Tommy Prince



## Canuck_25 (2 Jan 2005)

I was reading the thread about Canada's greatest military hero and I thought I would like to inform some about Tommy Prince in Korea.

 I remember talking to a family friend named Ron Rivington (chief log scaler, Ministry of forests, British Columbia.) He told me about Tommy Prince, the drunken, but proud character that almost had his comrades killed. He was lead by Tommy Prince one day on a patrol through a valley. Prince, piss drunk, lead them of course into another regiments area, and was fired on by Canadian soldiers. After criticism by soldiers, Prince assured them that he had the Victoria Cross for bravery, and knew what he was doing.

 To this day, Ron is astonished by how Tommy Prince receives so much attention through the media. Although, he cannot say how Tommy Prince performed in WW2 because he wasnt their, and he recognises his established image in that theatre.


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## George Wallace (2 Jan 2005)

Tommy Prince was a member of 1 SSF (the Devils Brigade) in WW II.  Many of his problems were manifested after returning to Canada and the way that Natives were treated on their return.  When Korea came along, he had some means to escape all that was happening at home and do something he was familiar with....soldier.  The fact that he was a drunk is recorded, but still the man is highly respected for much of what he accomplished in both wars and as a member of the PPCLI.

GW


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## Cloud Cover (2 Jan 2005)

I don't understand the purpose of this thread. Why are you bringing this up? :-\


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## pbi (3 Jan 2005)

Tommy, like many Canadian soldiers of that era, and since, had an alcohol problem. I joined an Army in 1974 that contained a disproportionate number of alcoholics, many of them older NCOs and WOs, some of whom had served in Korea as young soldiers. I fail to see how that, in any way, this tale degrades Tommy's achievements, or to see what is to be gained by trashing a dead hero. Do we have any proof (as opposed to hearsay) that he committed any crimes? Did anything unethical? If he got fired on by friendly troops: guess what. Join the line-up: it happens. If he was the first Canadian (or Commonwealth, for that matter...) soldier to drink before battle, I could see the point (maybe). Cheers.


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## Art Johnson (4 Jan 2005)

Imagine what the McKenna brothers would do with this story if they got half a chance. It was easier for them go after the Anglos like Billy Bishop and Bomber Harris. Tommy may have had his problems but he was still a good soldier.


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## Shec (4 Jan 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> I fail to see how that, in any way, this tale degrades Tommy's achievements, or to see what is to be gained by trashing a dead hero.



Tommy Prince deserves to be remembered for his accomplishments and outstanding service, not his weaknesses.   Who amongst us does not have foibles, failures, and skeletons in our closets?     Veterans Affairs has a respectful tribute to him, let us remember him that way:

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/other/native/prince

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/other/native/prince2

http://www.janet.crombie.com/images/prince.jpg


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## SprCForr (4 Jan 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ...and as a member of the PPCLI.
> 
> GW



and RCE.


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## Dottir (4 Jun 2005)

Canuck_25 said:
			
		

> I was reading the thread about Canadaâââ€šÂ¬ââ€žÂ¢s greatest military hero and I thought I would like to inform some about Tommy Prince in Korea.
> 
> I remember talking to a family friend named Ron Rivington (chief log scaler, Ministry of forests, British Columbia.) He told me about Tommy Prince, the drunken, but proud character that almost had his comrades killed. He was lead by Tommy Prince one day on a patrol through a valley. Prince, piss drunk, lead them of course into another regiments area, and was fired on by Canadian soldiers. After criticism by soldiers, Prince assured them that he had the Victoria Cross for bravery, and knew what he was doing.
> 
> To this day, Ron is astonished by how Tommy Prince receives so much attention through the media. Although, he cannot say how Tommy Prince performed in WW2 because he wasnt their, and he recognises his established image in that theatre.



I'm glad that the originator of this post is no longer able to "inform" us in here, of anything, especially the disrespect towards Tommy Prince, or any other man or woman who served or serves for the rest of us.

In this case, this post also upsets me because Tommy Prince happened to be a relation. I never met him in person, but how I would have loved to have met Tommy. Our families are related in a couple of close directions  so yeah, this post hit me personally for Tommy and his immediate living relatives as well. Even when a person is drunk or does bad outcomes will never take away the amazing and totally altruistic risks and self-sacrifces done for his comrades and all the rest of us, nor can they ever negate or deny actions, respect and honour due for all good done. 

Dottir


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## Dottir (4 Jun 2005)

I thought these links would be nice to share with you all in here for anyone wishing to read more about Tommy Prince.
The first link is an itemized short list of his service histories and medals. Interesting ... ist parachute battalion AND the Devil's Brigade ... sounds like the movie "The Band of Brothers" portrayed his character as "CHIEF".

http://web.mala.bc.ca/firstnations/doris/pmedals.htm

This link is a bit of his story:

http://web.mala.bc.ca/firstnations/doris/princet.htm

I couldn't find these links last night when I replied to this thread, and wanted to as it
appears to cover a lot of both Tommy's service AND life in general.

Dottir


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## George Wallace (4 Jun 2005)

Dottir said:
			
		

> I thought these links would be nice to share with you all in here for anyone wishing to read more about Tommy Prince.
> The first link is an itemized short list of his service histories and medals. Interesting ... ist parachute battalion AND the Devil's Brigade ... sounds like the movie "The Band of Brothers" portrayed his character as "CHIEF".



A little clarification for you.  You may have some wishful thinking, but Band of Brothers had nothing to do with 1 Canadian Parachute Battalion, nor 1 SSF.  Band of Brothers was a historical look at the 101st Airborne. (501 Bn if I remember correctly.)  Tommy Prince would not have been involved with anything there.  He, as part of 1 SSF, was in Italy and Southern France when D Day happened.


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## Dottir (4 Jun 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A little clarification for you.  You may have some wishful thinking, but Band of Brothers had nothing to do with 1 Canadian Parachute Battalion, nor 1 SSF.  Band of Brothers was a historical look at the 101st Airborne. (501 Bn if I remember correctly.)  Tommy Prince would not have been involved with anything there.  He, as part of 1 SSF, was in Italy and Southern France when D Day happened.



Now is that any way to talk to a lady GW? ... I've just been informed that we ate/drank in a restaurant together at that pub in Ottawa during the VE Day weekend. Think short yappy person 

And Oops ... did I ever mention that I am a Space-Cadet? I'm so sorry and I knew that was the wrong movie ... I meant to write that the movie "THE DEVLS BRIGADE" and character CHIEF. LOL I've just been watching "Band of Brothers" and in my groggy no sleep mode, I blew it, and obviously didn't preview what i wrote before I posted.

Red faced ... thanks for pointing this out GW. Will pay more attention next time. 

Sigh.

Dottir


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## George Wallace (4 Jun 2005)

It really is a small world, isn't it.   You guys made the news in the Bren Gun Carrier.

If you are ever up to Petawawa, there is a shack named after Tommy Prince, and Janet Crombie did a nice portrait of him for the CFB Petawawa Military Museum.  (Actually, The Canadian Airborne Forces Museum)

Take care.


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## Spr.Earl (5 Jun 2005)

The N.F.B. has a very good Bio of Tommy.
If he had been white instead of "Indian" he would have had a "Stamp" by now.


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## Dottir (5 Jun 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It really is a small world, isn't it.   You guys made the news in the Bren Gun Carrier.
> 
> If you are ever up to Petawawa, there is a shack named after Tommy Prince, and Janet Crombie did a nice portrait of him for the CFB Petawawa Military Museum.  (Actually, The Canadian Airborne Forces Museum)
> 
> Take care.



Hey GW, glad you remember me  But please do "forget" (or at least ignore LOL my scattered moments. RThey're typical with me as I have a million different trains of thoughts going at once usually, or none at all ) Yes, definately a small world sometimes.

So, we made the news in the Bren Gun Carrier? I know there was a TV news clip of us "in less than a quarter of a blink of the eye" which I totally missed  LOL and a couple of shots elsewhere in the papers. What an incredible experience for me, from start to finish, of that whole weekend. I met ALL wonderful people in Ottawa. The pub part was great fun too  Maybe one day I'll get to visit Petawawa too, and will be sure to look for Tommy Prince's shack ... I'm sure it will remind me of "back-home" shacks. Tommy may have felt right at home  

Til next time,

Dottir


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## Michael Dorosh (5 Jun 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A little clarification for you.  You may have some wishful thinking, but Band of Brothers had nothing to do with 1 Canadian Parachute Battalion, nor 1 SSF.  Band of Brothers was a historical look at the 101st Airborne. (501 Bn if I remember correctly.)  Tommy Prince would not have been involved with anything there.  He, as part of 1 SSF, was in Italy and Southern France when D Day happened.



You are thinking of the 506th, which of course was a a Parachute Infantry Regiment, not a battalion....


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## Dottir (5 Jun 2005)

Spr.Earl said:
			
		

> The N.F.B. has a very good Bio of Tommy.
> If he had been white instead of "Indian" he would have had a "Stamp" by now.



Hi Spr. Earl,

I'ld like to see the "Janet Crombie" portrait and N.F.B. story, so hopefully I will one day.

Hmmmm, yes, being "Indian" has certainly been used as justification for all sorts of nasty unfair-play, huh?
Race should never exisit in any minds in the military ... only "soldiers". PERIOD. You are or you aren't. Race doesn't figure in any importance to soldiering at all, as far as I can see, and shouldn't.

Thats my humble opinion 

PS: Regards BAND of BROTHERS ,,, all I can say is WOW! Finally finished watching all of the segments last night, for the 2nd time. 

Dottir


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## Art Johnson (5 Jun 2005)

Watch it George, or you may be the recipient of a low flying FRYING PAN.


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## Dottir (6 Jun 2005)

Art Johnson said:
			
		

> Watch it George, or you may be the recipient of a low flying FRYING PAN.



Hey Art ... who loves ya baby? Best to watch it or a low-flyer-fryer will come and get you too 

Cheers My Dear  

Vets Dottir


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## lyned (11 Feb 2010)

It's about time his story was told: 
http://en.video.canoe.tv/video/showbiz/celebrity-gossip/1896809945/aboriginal-actor-hopes-to-break-stereotypes/66182092001

"Black Devil Brigade" is a great book about the FSSF  and the Canadians who volunteered for it.


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## snoman317 (11 Feb 2010)

My internet is too slow to watch the video in that link so here is a text article for those in the same boat.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2010/02/11/mb-tommy-prince-beach-movie-winnipeg.html

I've always been aware of this man and his accomplishments but never knew he was buried here in Winnipeg..othewise I would have gone to visit such an inspirational man a long time ago.


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## lyned (11 Feb 2010)

What really stands out in my memory from the book I mentioned Snoman is how, In his first engagement in Italy, IIRC, he took out 3 enemy machine gun posts, at night, by himself!


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## OldSolduer (12 Feb 2010)

Adam Beach will be playing Tommy Prince in a movie about him.

There are duplicates of Sgt Prince's medals in the 2 VP complex in Shilo.

Sgt Prince is from the Brokenhead Reserve in Manitoba I beleive.


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Feb 2010)

Big Silverback said:
			
		

> Adam Beach will be playing Tommy Prince in a movie about him.
> 
> There are duplicates of Sgt Prince's medals in the 2 VP complex in Shilo.
> 
> Sgt Prince is from the Brokenhead Reserve in Manitoba I beleive.



Correct Big Silver....

Tommy Prince of the Ojibw'e Nation, Brokenhead reservation in Scanterbury, Manitoba.

EDITED TO ADD.....

He was a member of the Royal Canadian Engineers, the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion, and the First Special Service Force in addition to being a member of PPCLI.


CHIMO! Sgt Prince.


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## Spr.Earl (7 Apr 2010)

Keep watching the T.V. listing's for the History Channel,the story of Tommy Prince will be aired again.
It is a moving story of one man's heroic's and his end.

I wish Adam Beach good luck in his endevour of bringing the true story of Tommy Prince' life to the silver screen.


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## Toni Wyatt (4 May 2010)

The thread is old, but perhaps Tommy Prince's relative(s), or others interested in his story will come across it in the future.  

Before I was at least 7y old, I could have told you who Tommy Prince was.  So could my siblings, as they came along.  We grew up knowing Mr. Prince was Canada's most decorated WWll and Korean War Serviceman.  My Dad served with him in Korea, with the 2 Batt PPCLI and at the time, knew Tommy Prince quite well.  Dad, a WWll sailor (1939-1945), revered him.  I never ever heard my Dad mention anything about Tommy Prince drinking before going or while on patrol or on duty  .. whatever.  Later, although I don't recall when my Dad heard about it, he was in an up-roar over the fact that the Legion [in Winnipeg?] refused to admit Tommy Prince as a member, nor would allow him into the bar for a drink.  Not even on Rememberence Day!  To the day he died, 21st April 2003, my Dad refused to join the Legion.  Whenever asked if he was a member or encouraged to join by his mates, his stock answer was:  "If Tommy Prince wasn't good enough for the Royal Canadian Legion, then the Royal Canadian Legion isn't good enough for me."  

By the way:  The Devil's Brigade was a Canadian idea, with most of the members being Canadians .. similar story with the Dam Busters!


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## Dennis Ruhl (4 May 2010)

I wouldn't blame the Legion.  Perhaps they were trying to stay out of jail.


http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0002413


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## mariomike (4 May 2010)

"Sale of Hodgson’s Sgt. *Tommy Prince *Legion marks end of recent troubled history:  'If there’s no support, then it’s goodbye legion.' ":
http://www.interlakespectator.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2266174


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