# POLICE PATROLLING METHODOLGY



## pbi (18 Jun 2007)

Here's a question for the serving LEO's on the board. I'm not a cop, although I have a few friends who are and I've worked on a number of joint operations of various sorts. What I've always wondered is: what is the actual value of the patrol car, as opposed to foot patrol, in "preventing" crime?

Now, I understand fully that in Canada our municipalities are generally very spread out, and that a single man in a car has mobility and response time that a foot officer probably never would. I understand that the car reduces physical fatigue, and provides all sorts of support and protection for the LEO inside. It's also very visible. But it all seems somewhat reactive.

Are there situations in which foot patrol would actually be more "preventive"?. It seems to me that foot patrol officers would get to know the faces, sounds and back alleys, by day and night, much better than the car patrol. People might be more willing to talk to them.And, if a few officers work an area intensively, isn't that better than a car going down the street maybe once a day? (when I lived in Calgary in 1989-1997, IIRC the average was that each street got a car on average once per week).

I've asked this question a few times of serving LEOs and the answer I usually get is that using more foot presence would just be too demanding:  most departments are not manned for it, and it would result in uneven levels of policing. As well, foot men can't move around as rapidly to respond to other incidents.

What do the police folks here think. (I tried searching this but no luck)

Cheers


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## Quag (18 Jun 2007)

Many cities do both foot and MV patrols.  Toronto for example has a definate need for it, and they employ both types of patrols.  I am not a LEO though, so I will leave my thoughts out of this.


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## tank recce (18 Jun 2007)

Also not a cop, but someone who's lived and played in some of the seedier sections of a big city - when the weather permits (this is Canada, you realise!  ) you'll often see the fellows on bicycles. Talking with a constable (a few years back; I don't think the reasoning has changed), this allows (short-hop) response times approaching that of a cruiser, with a little more kit carried in the saddle bags, while allowing almost the same level of face-to-face interaction as the foot patrol. 

I believe some of the southern US cities were looking at roller blades; I don't know if this has actually been implemented. I watched an article on TV a while back that showed two officers practicing brake-and-draw with their sidearms!


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## Greymatters (18 Jun 2007)

tank recce said:
			
		

> I believe some of the southern US cities were looking at roller blades; I don't know if this has actually been implemented. I watched an article on TV a while back that showed two officers practicing brake-and-draw with their sidearms!



That was looked at about 20 years ago in California.  If I recall corectly, it looks good on TV, but wasnt considered feasable when applied to actually pursuing and arresting (especially in hand-to-hand situations) or off of areas where the ground was rough/uneven.


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## Red 6 (18 Jun 2007)

The thing with all these alternative methods of patrol is that when the officer makes an arrest, somebody has to come transport the custody to jail. In most places, that's a patrol officer in a car. Officers on roller blades seems like one of those gimmicky things that don't have much real-world application. Bikes are a defnite advantage in city centers and so forth, but for most patrol situations, there's no substitute for an officer in a patrol car.


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## noneck (18 Jun 2007)

Good Post PBI 

A lot of big city PD's and the RCMP are using Beat Teams in conjunction with Bike units and units in cars, I.E VPD uses Beat Teams in the skids and in the downtown Granville entertainment district, Surrey RCMP uses Beat Squads in the Whalley District and Whistler RCMP has Beat Units in the Village.

A couple of reasons that cars are used over Beat Teams is:
-You can transport your own prisoners
-You have the availability of the on board computer system (Way better than running folks through dispatch as you have access to more information and the time to run them yourselves).
-You can carry extra equipment and thus be flexible for different tasks/call types I.E long arms, bean bag gun, barrier tape, SOCO gear, traffic cones, first aid kit ect.
-You can respond to scenes a lot quicker (VPD was recently unjustifiably lambasted for their response times)
-I think the main reason is, that all PD's are critically short on manpower, Beat units are a luxury that has to be justified through police boards ect. In dense high crime areas where  incidents can be shown to be in close proximity by a crime analyst, then you would find great justification for a foot patrol based response team.

Rollerblades and Segways...never!

Hope this answers your question somewhat.

Cheers Noneck


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## MPIKE (18 Jun 2007)

pbi said:
			
		

> Here's a question for the serving LEO's on the board. I'm not a cop, although I have a few friends who are and I've worked on a number of joint operations of various sorts. What I've always wondered is: what is the actual value of the patrol car, as opposed to foot patrol, in "preventing" crime?
> 
> Now, I understand fully that in Canada our municipalities are generally very spread out, and that a single man in a car has mobility and response time that a foot officer probably never would. I understand that the car reduces physical fatigue, and provides all sorts of support and protection for the LEO inside. It's also very visible. But it all seems somewhat reactive.
> 
> ...



pbi, 
great suggestions from everyone thus far.  Just to expand a little more..

You are correct that this way of doing business is reactive in nature and general patrol duties do seem to be fragmented from the public.   This discussion can go a little further than our choice of delivery whether by foot or veh.  What is happening now is most services have changed their style of service delivery to adopt some of Problem Oriented Policing models.  Regional size plus departments are implementing these Target teams/Community Response Units to fill the voids between regular calls for service, community concerns, and "hot spots".   So they effectively try strike a balance with both foot and veh modes while addressing some of the cons that you have brought up regarding visibility, crime reduction etc.

Try searching the POP term and you will find lots of material..  When I was in a Community Response Unit, we frequently refered to this site
http://www.popcenter.org/ .  (Yeah a little hokey for some things but it was valuable when you went up against a citizen action committee/town council who were screaming murder over things they had a share in as well..)

Just to close.. I would add that there are many coppers who get out their cars and learn "who's who in the zoo" but I would also agree that many more need to get out as well and break from some systemic habits created by being in a cruiser.


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## Sheerin (19 Jun 2007)

Living in Toronto (and living downtown right by 51 division) I haven't seen too many foot patrol officers.  When I do it's usually during the big events in the summer such as the Caribana weekend where every corner downtown has a couple cops walking around - I've noticed in past years that over that particular weekend that the police seem to have an additional magazine on their belt, or at least that's what it looks like.  The majority of the regular foot patrols seem to be in the high traffic areas like the Entertainment district on weekends and so forth.

The bikes are always out during the summer, as well as the horses downtown.  Interesting anecdote, I was driving with a friend a couple years ago and after running a yellow/red light he got pulled over by a cop on a horse.  My friend deserved the ticket, obviously, but it was just funny.  


Toronto EMS uses bike medics to patrol the downtown core on weekends, particularly in the entertainment district.  They've found that this along with their ERU program has allowed them to cut down response times to calls in the high traffic areas.  As anyone who has driven an ambulance through a crowd of people can attest, it's definitely not fun.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Jun 2007)

Perhaps a small station at Jane & Finch is called for....

Mind you the foot patrols would need to be 3 guys or more likely.


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## rregtc-etf (19 Jun 2007)

The resources that a police dept has will definitely decide on number of officers assigned to any one type of duty.  Everyone wants to get the most bang for their buck.

In Toronto officers patrol by car, bicycle, foot, horse, and motorcycle.  Each method is deployed for a different end result, but all can be used for general patrol.  The geographic area the officer is responsible varies, cars, motorcycles and horses usually have a patrol area, foot patrols "walk a beat" which may include malls, subway, schools (anywhere there is pedestrian traffic)

Car - usually emergency response to 911 calls, general patrol.  Downtown patrol areas usually smaller than in suburbs
      - can cover great distance very quickly, can deliver numerous officers to location very rapidly e.g. bank robbery
      - prisoner transport from street to police station / high risk vehicle stops / block off streets / easily change location
      - radio, computers, cell phone, road flares, first aid kit, shoulder fired weapons, radar (laser) all weather 24/7 x 12
      - cross city deployment if needed, victim & witness transportation, unmarked cars or marked without roof lights
      - respond to radio call for assistance and problem solving general police duties and police reports
      - set perimeters of search area by K9 units
      - high visibility, R.I.D.E spot checks, cover large area or stationary for observation from a distance for long periods

Foot - great for pedestrian level high visibility, patrol subways & public transit vehicles
       - slow, street level criminals can easily avoid contact
       - great to visit merchants, bars, hotels, schools, problem areas, parking enforcement.  Best used in downtown areas
       - most foot patrol officers also trained for bike patrol

Bikes - extension of foot patrol, usually highly motivated officers for street level drug areas, back lanes, parks
        - highly mobile and fast silent approach, able to team up and break down quickly for specific enforcement problem areas
        - rapid response through traffic, however limited to smaller geographic distance for rapid response
        - usually ride year round as long as roads not snow covered
        - very efficient, however have less contact with members of general public then when on foot
        - officers usually decide if they ride or walk, unless specific detail given to them

Horse - similar to foot patrol on major streets, laneways , parks, crowd control, rough terrain
          - trained for violent demonstrations

Motorcycle - traffic enforcement, laneways, underground, parking lots, road closures
                - Escorted V.I.P Motorcades or Funeral processions 

In a nutshell, the police usually deploy different vehicles and tactics depending the desired objective which is to prevent crime, investigate crime, and hopefully arrest the criminal.  In larger Metropolitan forces, there would be more of an overlap of  specialized units, in some cases a car may be the best all round vehicle.


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## Greymatters (19 Jun 2007)

Horses are passe.  A showpiece and sop to the tourism industry.


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## rregtc-etf (20 Jun 2007)

There is a destinction to be made between show horses and working horses.  The RCMP Musical Ride is a symbol of Canada and I doubt anyone would callfor their disbandment  As far as working police horses, nothing beats a trained mounted troop in large crowds and hostile crowd environment.   One mounted officer is worth 10 on foot in these situations.  Horses were used in part to break up the 2001 Queens Park Riot in Toronto, are routinely used to clear large areas of people . The UK police used horses during violent strikes in the 1970's. In the U.S most large police departments maintain a mounted capability 

Most people just see them on patrol but don't recognize the capacity and effect that 8 to 24 horses can have in hostile crowds, horses can also be deployed to clear a path for extraction of injured officers persons or vehicles caught in violent crowd situations.


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## medaid (20 Jun 2007)

I had a chance to see one of VPD's riot horses up close and personal the other day when they were conducting training at the Garrison. WOW... I would NOT like THAT animal to be coming at me... 

One interesting thing though, there were these visors that the horses were wearing... I'm almost afraid to say this but... they were cute!  ;D


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## Greymatters (20 Jun 2007)

I will admit that a horse can be intimidating to a hostile crowd, especially the threat of being hit by hooves, but is it really effective on patrols?


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## Colin Parkinson (20 Jun 2007)

Quiet, fast, good height of eye, intimidating when needed, capable of multi-task from riot control to hearts and minds. A good force multiplier


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## medaid (20 Jun 2007)

Not in that sense no. Sorry  : I was just saying horses were nice tool to have.

On a serious note, I guess in a sense most police forces have traded the biological horse for the mechanical horse.

The motorcycle and the bike. I've seen bike squads in action, and they are extremely effective in my opinion. They are silent, fast and can usually catch up to a suspect, take em down before the suspect can react properly or effectively. 

Obviously the limitations on bikes are weather dependent, area of response is limited, and well lets admit it, the rider gets tired thus cutting down the effectiveness at times when it comes to response as well.

But... it's still an excellent tool!


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## rregtc-etf (20 Jun 2007)

There are limitations to police patrol on horseback, but that can be said for any system of patrol.  I guess it is only as effective as the officer riding the horse is alert & observant.  Don't forget, he/she will be in radio contact with other officers in cars and bikes etc and can call for back up.  As long as a police department maintains a mounted  capability the horses will need to be exercised which usually means riding them on patrol.  It is a specialized unit much like a SWAT Team or K9 primarily required for special functions from time to time.  General Patrol would be secondary and mostly used to keep the animals trained to downtown traffic, noises, etc, an untrained field or show horse would likely freak and bolt if a bus or garbage truck drove past him.  I have never heard of a run away police horse in Toronto, but I'm sure it could happen if the horse is spooked and the rider losses control of the reins.

Ya they're cute, but they smell like....horses.


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## Greymatters (21 Jun 2007)

The animals or the riders?  ;D


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## medaid (21 Jun 2007)

horsies! YAY!!! ;D


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## ms (22 Jun 2007)

In Vancouver, I would say manpower was the greatest limitation on why there aren't more foot patrols. I have worked some shifts where each call had me driving to opposite corners of the district. Big area+plenty of incidents+too few officers= car patrols. It is reactive policing but with the mentioned formula there is little time for proactive policing.  

Each time of patrol has its benefits. Foot, bike, mounted are each used where they would be most effective. Our mounted squad primarily works in Stanley Park but they are regulars in the Downtown east side (skids). Incredibly effective during large events (think Fireworks - 150 000+ spectators each night) 

Story - I was on a bike patrol during one of the last Celebration of Fights (fireworks) events. I was standing talking to the mounted guys and rubbing the nose of one of the horses. The horse was mouthing my handlebars for a bit and then ever so gently... reached over and ripped the bell and headlight off of my bike. It made for an interesting damage to police property report.


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## pbi (24 Jun 2007)

Thanks to all of you who replied. Very interesting. I doubt we will ever see a wholesale return to foot patrol and neighbourhood station houses, but the foot guys obviously still have great value. Good to see the explanation of the value of the mounted units: no doubt many people might share Grey Matter's skepticism at first glance. I also saw the TPS mounted unit in action at the Queen's Park riot: very effective, although some of Mr Clark's sh*t disturbers were ready with "anti-cavalry" TTPs. With proper protective gear, the horse and rider combination is very intimidating.

Cheers


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## niner domestic (24 Jun 2007)

I remember last year when Toronto lost one of their horses to a hit and run.  The poor beast was catastrophically wounded and had to be put down on site by his fellow officers.  His name was Brigadier.  http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2136

His replacement was named Commodore, a lovely red Belgian.  Then there's fabulous people like Dorothy Keith, who make huge donations to kit out the horses with new saddles because their old ones are giving them sores.  The mounted units are a always a crowd pleaser and a crowd controller.


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## Meridian (24 Jun 2007)

Interesting topic....

I'm wondering if anyone would have any idea why the STM's security force (Montreal Transit), would require an unmarked vehicle, and why they would park it and hang out on a street with absolutely no public transit (Ste Catherine).  Im highly doubting a logical answer, or at least one that would not relate to the amount of hot women on the street in question, but in any event.. the unmarked vehicle struck me as odd.

I do however tend to see a fairly strong presence on Ste Catherines of police not in their cars, though the cars are usually nearby...   This is in SHARP contrast to Rideau Street in Ottawa, which never seems to have an officer in the area....  and where I have witnessed numerous criminal acts in broad daylight.


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## pbi (25 Jun 2007)

> ...and where I have witnessed numerous criminal acts in broad daylight.



Interesting observation. I recall returning from Cyprus in 1991. Shortly after my return, I was in Ottawa. I saw more beggars and street people in one day in downtown Ottawa than I saw in six months in all of Cyprus. Nice for the nation's capital. (But not quite as bad as what I saw in DC 1997-98).

Cheers


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## Meridian (25 Jun 2007)

pbi said:
			
		

> Interesting observation. I recall returning from Cyprus in 1991. Shortly after my return, I was in Ottawa. I saw more beggars and street people in one day in downtown Ottawa than I saw in six months in all of Cyprus. Nice for the nation's capital. (But not quite as bad as what I saw in DC 1997-98).
> 
> Cheers



I believe it.  I used to live right off Rideau, near the Air Force building on King Edward,  and worked in a Bar on Elgin.  The amount of homeless people I passed every night going to work was insane. No way I could have offered them all money, I would have been handing over my entire paycheque!

A Citizen article I read a few years back stated that the 500 square feet of the Shoppers Drug Mart entrance to Rideau Centre in Ottawa was something like the most crime ridden area in Canada.    Prostitution, drugs, gangs, stabbings, murders, etc...  I've seen four of the five!   My friend who is now a 2LT Inf used to work security at the McDonalds there..   insane.  We always wondered why there wasn't permanent police presence in the area, given the amount of tourists and citizens using the public transit.

Anyway, sorry to derail.


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## edgar (26 Jun 2007)

Red 6 said:
			
		

> The thing with all these alternative methods of patrol is that when the officer makes an arrest, somebody has to come transport the custody to jail.



Sorry for the digression, but is it racism if you still call it the paddywagon?


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## Greymatters (29 Jun 2007)

'Paddy' can be a slur against an Irish persons ethnic background, their cultural background, even their national background, but the Irish are not a 'race'.  At least not in most reference books - you might find one that says they are a 'race' if you look hard enough.


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## zipperhead_cop (2 Jul 2007)

edgar said:
			
		

> Sorry for the digression, but is it racism if you still call it the paddywagon?



No.  And we call it a meat wagon.  

As already mentioned, manpower limits the luxury of having walking patrols in high crime areas.  Most big urban centers are running call to call, and don't generally have much time to be proactive.  However, most police will agree that when they are finishing a call in a junk area just lingering on a side street, you can end up seeing a tonne of stuff that just seems to waltz into your view.  IMO if you are going to pull guys (non gender specific for the over sensitive types) out of cars, put them on bikes.  You are far more effective than being on foot, and you can sneak around a lot better that way.  The bad guys don't expect cops on bikes generally.    
Also agree that there is a need for access to the computer data base while on patrol.  Maybe there could be a Crackberry device that would interface and run checks for a foot patrol officer, but that would be big cash.  However, only the lowest strata of losers walk or bike around to commit crime.  The fish you want are generally in cars, and you need one to do a vehicle stop.  
Of course, an _actual_ solution would be to give out real punishment for crimes, but that is SO un-Canadian it is even crazy to suggest.    (but it's July 2 now, so I don't have to feel too bad)


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## noneck (2 Jul 2007)

Zipperhead_Cop-

N Van and Bby Detachments trialed both a Blackberry style handhled computer and a small handlebar mounted computer. A buddy in my section used the blackberry model and said it worked great, it was however prohibitively expensive.

For all the non-LEO's reviewing this thread, ask any operational police officer and they will give you a list of proactive solutions for policing in their particlular area. Money, manpower and management are the only limiting factors!


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## Colin Parkinson (4 Jul 2007)

I have so far zero complaints about the N. Vancouver detachment, everytime I have called them they responded quickly. My only pet peeve was reporting suspicious activity on Cap road and having a silly game of “not my area” being played, after tearing a strip off of the dispatcher and pointing out that it was their job to pass it on to their counterparts in West Van. The average citizen does not care about the ‘exact” boundaries and if given to much of a run around they will just not bother next time.

(for those not from the area, a small part of N. Vancouver falls under the West Van police force coverage, despite a large river and canyon separating the two. )


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## edgar (12 Jul 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I have so far zero complaints about the N. Vancouver detachment, everytime I have called them they responded quickly. My only pet peeve was reporting suspicious activity on Cap road and having a silly game of “not my area” being played, after tearing a strip off of the dispatcher and pointing out that it was their job to pass it on to their counterparts in West Van. The average citizen does not care about the ‘exact” boundaries and if given to much of a run around they will just not bother next time.
> 
> (for those not from the area, a small part of N. Vancouver falls under the West Van police force coverage, despite a large river and canyon separating the two. )



Sounds right. I got a buddy on the Delta BC police says its not the tiny jurisdictions, it's the lack of teamwork between the forces. I've seen his idealism sort of crushed over the years under an accumulation of crap like that.


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Jul 2007)

Years ago on the hovercraft we were giving a ride to new officers from the various detachments/police forces along Fraser River, the purpose was to help them understand the river and how the various authorities worked together. One young recruit asked:

If you pick up a body in the middle of the river, how do you know which jurisdiction it goes to? (Fraser River is a boundary for some municipalities) 

My reply: 
Simple we just look at which force last issued a ticket to one of our crew members and they are the ones that get the body! He looked a little shocked..  ;D


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## zipperhead_cop (12 Jul 2007)

edgar said:
			
		

> Sounds right. I got a buddy on the Delta BC police says its not the tiny jurisdictions, it's the lack of teamwork between the forces. I've seen his idealism sort of crushed over the years under an accumulation of crap like that.



If you look at the very worst case laws out of the SCC that have affected policing in the last while, the vast majority have come from BC.  Things for police out there tend to suck, from what I have heard.  
Interjurisdictional urination contests rarely have anything to do with the officers on the road.  That is a departmental policy issue.  Don't blame the guys on the road.  If you are calling in something that is out of jurisdiction, the officers on the road will never know, because the dispatchers won't tell them.  I agree that it is the dispatchers job to pass it on to another force, but there seems to be a universal theme to many dispatchers...


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Jul 2007)

When I was helping to move a female friend, the abusive landlord changed the locks while we took one load to the new house (she had paid the rent fully, but wanted the depoist back) We called the RCMP, the constable came listened to both sides and ordered the landlord to open the door and give us a key He refused, the cop was shaking with rage, but kept his cool (mostly) he turned around and told my friend to take a sledgehammer to the door if the landlord would not open it and then turned to him and said "Don't bother calling us because you deserve worse" Man I could have bought the cop a beer right there and then!!! It helped that we remained polite and to the point while the landlord acted like an idiot. 

My wife did a stint at court 100, she thinks are legal system here is screwy, everyone pretending that perp isn't stoned at his trial or changing dates because they are to lazy to get a lawyer. In Malaysia, showing up stoned to court will result in imediate 6 months rehab, no lawyerdespite being given time to get one,  to bad you have 20 minutes to prepare.


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## zipperhead_cop (13 Jul 2007)

I read an excellent article once from a self confessed hippy that had moved to Singapore.  The gist of the article was that intitally he was afraid to live in a "police state" for fear of losing all of his precious granola eating rights.  But over time, he realized that normal, law abiding citizens didn't need to worry what the government was doing, because they were safe and secure.  He felt comfortable letting his kids play outside, and his taxes were quite low, due to the fact that being a social burden was quite a miserable thing to be there.  Where he had been forced by his employer to go there for two years, he ended up signing on for a six year contract, and hoped to stay on longer.  
All in all, police are always going to be busy with arseholes, and won't take time to screw around with a "normal" citizen.  So play nice and be normal.  We have bigger fish to fry.  
Like legitimate gun owners  :dontpanic: 
( :-* Colin P)


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## Sheerin (13 Jul 2007)

Speaking of horses, I got a good laugh last Saturday when I saw a guy driving a high end BMW get pulled over by a cop on a horse and get a ticket of some kind.  This happened at the corner of Front and Bay.  It was great, there were tourists taking photos of the event.  Though in a way I did feel bad for the guy, but at least the girl he was with was hot


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## Colin Parkinson (20 Jul 2007)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I read an excellent article once from a self confessed hippy that had moved to Singapore.  The gist of the article was that intitally he was afraid to live in a "police state" for fear of losing all of his precious granola eating rights.  But over time, he realized that normal, law abiding citizens didn't need to worry what the government was doing, because they were safe and secure.  He felt comfortable letting his kids play outside, and his taxes were quite low, due to the fact that being a social burden was quite a miserable thing to be there.  Where he had been forced by his employer to go there for two years, he ended up signing on for a six year contract, and hoped to stay on longer.
> All in all, police are always going to be busy with arseholes, and won't take time to screw around with a "normal" citizen.  So play nice and be normal.  We have bigger fish to fry.
> Like legitimate gun owners  :dontpanic:
> ( :-* Colin P)



If you are going to fry my "fish" you better bring a 14" pan  ;D


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