# The Politics of Yellow Ribbons - MERGED



## super26 (12 Feb 2007)

Don't tack a yellow ribbon to the hydro pole: utility 
Last Updated: Monday, February 12, 2007 | 7:26 AM NT 
CBC News 
A woman on Newfoundland's west coast says Newfoundland Power is preventing her from showing her support for Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

Anita Wheeler had wanted to staple small, yellow ribbons to power poles along the main road in her community of Meadows.

She said she cannot understand why Newfoundland Power has told her to not place the yellow ribbons — a universal symbol of support for troops — on power poles.

"You go around, you can see things on poles — yard sale posters, birthday posters. So it's just a little bow. It's not a big thing," said Wheeler, whose husband is with the Armed Forces and was recently sent to Afghanistan.

"It means everything. It's just to know that the support is there and that we think of all of them."

Newfoundland Power says it forbids posting anything to its poles.

Continue Article

The utility says even one staple can cut a worker's protective clothing, putting them at risk of electrical shock.

Wheeler said she will now go door to door through Meadows and ask residents if she can put the ribbons on their property.

_
Edited to correct typo in topic title: Vern_


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## career_radio-checker (12 Feb 2007)

I can actually see this as a legitimate excuse. I've seen how bad some telephone poles can get with those nasty staples, the poles actually look silver. Now if I was utility worker I would have no problem saying "look, I support the troops, but I will not risk having 15 000v go looking for the ground through my scrawny body, just because you want to staple that ribbon to this pole." What's more, is that once those ribbons are up, chances are they would stay up and be exposed to the elements. Because they are not on anyone's property they would soon become an eyesore as they tatter and fade in the wind, becoming more of an insult than a sign of support. We can't presume that just because we "support the troops" we have a right to place our support wherever we please.


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## Jaydub (12 Feb 2007)

What about tying an actual yellow ribbon around the pole?


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## Quag (12 Feb 2007)

Would never stay


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## COBRA-6 (12 Feb 2007)

Ribbon stencil and yellow spray-paint then...


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## career_radio-checker (12 Feb 2007)

Apparently my last sentence has no resonance.


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## COBRA-6 (12 Feb 2007)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Apparently my last sentence has no resonance.



I agree with your last sentence, but that is not the point at hand. The article stated it was a safety issue with the staples, now if the hydro company had said they don't allow their poles to be used in campaigning for causes that would be different.


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## TN2IC (12 Feb 2007)

It is funny, at my in laws (out laws) town Fall River, Nova Scotia, they have the yellow ribbins all over the poles. I believe no one said anything about that!


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## gaspasser (12 Feb 2007)

TN2IC said:
			
		

> It is funny, at my in laws (out laws) town Fall River, Nova Scotia, they have the yellow ribbins all over the poles. I believe no one said anything about that!


Those ribbons aren't there for the troops, they're there so you can make out where the bloody road is.
If you aren't watching, the road  moves.

LOL    ;D

PS. Nice to see the the backroads people aren't so back woods.
BYTD


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## armyvern (12 Feb 2007)

TN2IC, Fall River NS would be the operative words in your post. I don't belief that NS Power/Hydro or whatever it's called there makes decisions for NLFD/Labrador Power. They are each governed by their own sets of policies & rules.

In NB, Oromocto/Gagetown specifically, yellow ribbons are tied around the telephone and lamp poles. Yellow garbage bags, torn into strips and tied on. They've been there for quite awhile and obviously would not compromise the lineman's safety as they have no staples in them to speak of.

Perhaps, they should give this method of ribboning a try on the rock.

Vern


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## TN2IC (12 Feb 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> TN2IC, Fall River NS would be the operative words in your post. I don't belief that NS Power/Hydro or whatever it's called there makes decisions for NLFD/Labrador Power. They are each governed by their own sets of policies & rules.



True, I was just stating in case someone wanted to relate this case to figth with.


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## wildman0101 (12 Feb 2007)

re posters on poles 
this is for the hydro guys 
you dont want to climb up/down whe a pole is full of staples ,,,nails,,tacks ect 
post elsewhere thats appropriate.. windows ... lamp standards,,(sreet lights),malls oe; info boards
as they arnt so much unsupportave of the troops as in thier job safety factor,,
ill shaddup now ,,
                                           best regards,,,
                                                     scoty brandt


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## Quag (12 Feb 2007)

wildman0101 said:
			
		

> re posters on poles
> this is for the hydro guys
> you dont want to climb up/down whe a pole is full of staples ,,,nails,,tacks ect
> post elsewhere thats appropriate.. windows ... lamp standards,,(sreet lights),malls oe; info boards
> ...



OK....I think I understand what you said....No wait....Huh?


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## armyvern (12 Feb 2007)

TN2IC said:
			
		

> True, I was just stating in case someone wanted to relate this case to figth with.



Fight what with?

This is simply media spin coming from the opposite angle this time.

Hydro didn't tell her that the Yellow Support Ribbons weren't allowed (though that does make for a more emotional headline that's for sure!!). They told her it was because of the staples, they explained this to her.

*Problem:* Staples not allowed. Also explained that they consider them a safety hazards to the Linemen in NFLD/Labrador.

*Solution:* Use yellow plastic tableclothes/garbage bags (avail at the buck store) and tie them on.

No more safety hazard. Silly as we may think that rule is, it is their rule!!

But the headline was great wasn't it?


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## TN2IC (12 Feb 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> But the headline was great wasn't it?




Indeed girl...


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## proudnurse (13 Feb 2007)

In response to the article, when people post yard sale advertisments, etc they don't ask for permission they just go ahead and to it anyways. I'm sure that the hydro company would tell those people, just as this lady was advised that those would not be allowed either. 

I don't think that the company is necessarily telling her that by not allowing the ribbons to be stapled on, that they don't support the troops. It is safety reasons for the linemen. Poles get hit in car accidents, etc and those guys need every safe measure possible to do thier job. Nothing like Hazards with stuff like papers and staples from "yard sale posters" getting in the way of thier job as it is. 

Rebecca


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## jbeach95 (9 May 2007)

The following letter to the editor appeared in the London Free Press:



> *Ribbons on police cars send a poor message*
> 
> It's recently come to my attention a number of London police service vehicles are sporting yellow magnetic Support Our Troops ribbons.
> 
> ...




A-Channel news ran a story about it at 6:00, then another updated story at 11:00. The second can be summed up in this article from their website, http://www.achannel.ca/london/news_43550.aspx



> *Yellow Ribbon Controversy*
> Police Involvement Draws Criticism
> 
> Police are investigating after the person who complained about the yellow ribbon campaign on their cruisers was threatened.
> ...



A-Channel withheld her name in the later segment, and so have I. 

What's wrong with the police showing their support for Canadian troops? I agree that it is NOT a political statement, just one of support for the individuals, especially since there are many London police officers who are in the reserves.
It makes me even more mad that I actually know her, having been in the same class this past school year. :rage:
Of course, I do not condone threats of any kind, and think that it was a poor reaction to the situation.


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## HollywoodHitman (9 May 2007)

She got her 15 minutes of fame. Maybe if we ignore it, it will go away. Good on the cops for supporting our men and women overseas.


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## proudnurse (9 May 2007)

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> She got her 15 minutes of fame. Maybe if we ignore it, it will go away. Good on the cops for supporting our men and women overseas.



+1 Hollywood Hitman

~Rebecca


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## MikeM (9 May 2007)

Fuck her.

The cars here have yellow ribbon with the regional insignia in the centre of the loop, looks great, very professional. The police are a para-military organization, I see no reason why they shouldn't be showing their support, maybe I'm biased.. but she's out for her 15 minutes and got it.


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## retiredgrunt45 (9 May 2007)

My daughter attends UWO and she has seen how anti military many of her professors are, to the point were she won't tell anyone she's and army brat. This attitude tends to rub off on many of the students who don't know any better or haven't been exposed to the military.

To think these will be are future leaders, the new flower power generation, God help us all.


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## gate_guard (9 May 2007)

The Chief summed it up, the only support being shown is for serving troops, not a particular political stance. In fact, her point of view just goes to show that she, like many political figures, only see our troops (and the support of them) strictly from a political perspective. 

Regardless, Im gonna keep wearing my yellow ribbon pin on my uniform.


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## medaid (9 May 2007)

I'll keep wearing mine. I will continue to display my magnets on my car... regardless of what anyone else says.


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## jbeach95 (9 May 2007)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> My daughter attends UWO and she has seen how anti military many of her professors are, to the point were she won't tell anyone she's and army brat. This attitude tends to rub off on many of the students who don't know any better or haven't been exposed to the military.
> 
> To think these will be are future leaders, the new flower power generation, God help us all.



I guess I've been lucky enough to get professors who aren't anti-military. Many of the ones I have had are anti-war, but support the military. Or at least that's the impression I got. It really depends on the individual.


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## Dirt Digger (9 May 2007)

You would think a Poli Sci major would have a little better understanding of the issues, but this seems to be more of an individual trying to project their personal agenda.  

Maybe someone should explain to her that, "Support The Troops" means you can support them regardless of which political party is in power.  Might need to drag out the sock puppets for this one.   :


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## ex-Sup (9 May 2007)

I've seen many on police cars around here.

I know that there are some staff at my school that do not support what is being done...I overheard one colleague saying "they should only be there building schools!"

As for myself, I have magnets up in my classroom and in my office. I wear my camo braclet everyday.


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## Gronk (9 May 2007)

I suppose only a Poli Sci Major could decode a "Support Our Troops" message into a political slant.


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## Bane (9 May 2007)

Gronk said:
			
		

> I suppose only a Poli Sci Major could decode a "Support Our Troops" message into a political slant.



Easy there, she may have gotten her decoder ring from a cereal box but I didn't.


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## CougarKing (9 May 2007)

Gronk said:
			
		

> I suppose only a Poli Sci Major could decode a "Support Our Troops" message into a political slant.



Well not all Poli Sci majors and Poli Sci grads are like her- there must be a number with CF commissions. Get her into a debate with another informed Poli Sci major who supports the troops, and it's unlikely her position would hold.


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## toughenough (9 May 2007)

Am I the only one that fails to see how this changes the impartiality of the police force?

When they catch you breaking into an animal testing lab or something else, are you going to claim you were arrested because you don't support the troops, and not because you're doing something illegal? I don't understand the connection, maybe it's because I took computer science in college (where ideals are nothing and logic is everything), I'm not sure.

This will not affect the officer's job performance in any way. It's not like they have "End Prohibition, Legalize Pot" on the back of their cruisers...


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## armyvern (9 May 2007)

Apparently she may not be old enough to remember as far back as a couple of years ago when the Liberal Party was governing...and those exact same yellow "Support Our Troops" ribbons were being worn on the ass-end of vehicles nation-wide (including those of various Provincial/City level services).

Or, perhaps she chooses to ignore that little factoid.

Simply put, these ribbons have been displayed by people of all political stripes to show their "Support of the Troops" regardless of which party they supported regarding the Mission in Afghanistan.

Yes Sleeping Beauty, indeed there are some who can spin "media gold" out of nothing; please advise Santa to remove them from his Christmas list. I'd appreciate it, thanks.


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## midget-boyd91 (9 May 2007)

CougarShark said:
			
		

> Well not all Poli Sci majors and Poli Sci grads are like her- there must be a number with CF commissions. Get her into a debate with another informed Poli Sci major who supports the troops *has the slightest idea of what is going on*, and it's unlikely her position would hold.



 It's not *just* support the troops, but also having the knowledge, (but I suppose most who support the mission have read up on it a bit more than those who say "out now," and whatnot). 
But I agree with what you're saying. The flower power fighters when put face to face in a debate will have nothing to counter the fact that there are now six million kids back in school.


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## jbeach95 (9 May 2007)

CougarShark said:
			
		

> Well not all Poli Sci majors and Poli Sci grads are like her- there must be a number with CF commissions.



And also a number without commissions.


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## armyvern (9 May 2007)

midget-boyd91 said:
			
		

> It's not *just* support the troops, but also having the knowledge, (but I suppose most who support the mission have read up on it a bit more than those who say "out now," and whatnot).
> But I agree with what you're saying. The flower power fighters when put face to face in a debate will have nothing to counter the fact that there are now six million kids back in school.



No, she's a current Poli Sci student so there is NO excuse for her not having the knowledge...other than failure of instruction and lack of her own personal drive to research before she speaks; especially regarding something of a politcal context which she is doing in this case; her apparent future specialty. "Insert your Diety here" help us all I say.

Or as you suggest, the frequent tendancy of those with a leftish leaning in their political views, to absolutely forget what occured while their party of choice was in power.


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## KevinB (9 May 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> Or as you suggest, the frequent tendancy of those with a leftish leaning in their political views, to absolutely forget what occured while their party of choice was in power.



You mean Haper did not go Bush's war all by himself  
  I thought that was what revisionist history is all about...


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## Cdn Blackshirt (9 May 2007)

I had a first year Poli Sci prof who nearly failed me on an essay over my position against quotas.  Her comments all had to do with her political slant as opposed to the structure of the essay or the supporting arguments provided.

For my final exam, having figured out how the game worked (I'm occasionally a pretty bright guy), I wrote an essay in favour of quotas using the exact same structures and got an "A".

Bottom Line:  Based on the prof's, especialy those in "Poli Sci" and "Arts" in general, who are in charge of shaping young minds (mine had already been shaped by the time I got there by my father), I don't expect anything smart to come from university students, and am pleasantly surprised when individuals exceed that expectation.


Matthew.


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## The Bread Guy (9 May 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> Simply put, these ribbons have been displayed by people of all political stripes to show their "Support of the Troops" regardless of which party they supported regarding the Mission in Afghanistan.



I'll take it even one step further - a person and/or institution can still support the troops no matter WHAT mission those troops happen to be engaged in.  Even if Canada had no troops in AFG right now, it is possible to support our troops doing their job - let's not forget that people are dying on missions where there's no more shooting, too.


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## gaspasser (9 May 2007)

I concur with you, you should support the troops always!  Even if you do not support the mission or the politics of those in power.
I think it sounds wonderful that the LPS is outwardly supporting our troops, some citizens of this great land don't even know that we have a military let alone one that is at war to preserve democracy and decency in a foreign land.
I'm still trying to find out when Cpl. Benoît Chevalier will be repatriated home.  IF he is repatted back to Trenton.  


 RIP Peacekeeper


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## observor 69 (9 May 2007)

CougarShark said:
			
		

> Well not all Poli Sci majors and Poli Sci grads are like her- there must be a number with CF commissions. Get her into a debate with another informed Poli Sci major who supports the troops, and it's unlikely her position would hold.



Bin there done that CS. 
Thanks for pointing this out.


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## ex-Sup (9 May 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> Bottom Line:  Based on the prof's, especialy those in "Poli Sci" and "Arts" in general, who are in charge of shaping young minds (mine had already been shaped by the time I got there by my father), I don't expect anything smart to come from university students


Well, a lot of that shaping takes before they get to university. I might be overstepping my bounds here, but as an educator and former reservist I shudder to think what is being said about our troops. University students are old enough to (hopefully) create informed opinions. Many of the students that I teach don't have the maturity to do that and are easily swayed. I not trying to bash my profession nor imply that all teachers are misinformed, but based on the conversation I mentioned in my previous post, I do have concerns. I always try to tell my students that they need to form their own opinions, but I also try to give them the tools and information to make it as informed as possible. They all know where I stand, but I wouldn't try to push them in a particular direction. However, I know that this always isn't the case. Just my $0.02.


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## jbeach95 (10 May 2007)

London Police Association response in London Free Press (with errors, without name):



> *Ribbons on police cars not political statement*
> 
> In his letter, Ribbons on police cars send a poor message ( May 8 ), [deleted] complains that London police have lost their impartiality by placing yellow magnetic ribbons on police cruisers in support of Canadian soldiers fighting terrorism, extremism and dictatorship overseas.
> 
> ...


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## MikeM (10 May 2007)

Excellent rebuttal, +1 to Mr. Axford.


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## vonGarvin (10 May 2007)

As an alumnus of the University of Western Ontario, I am not surprised that *someone* wrote such a letter.  It is a university after all; however, let me recant my own personal experiences from when I was a student:
It was early 1993.  I was taking a course part-time.  I refrained from saying that I was an "army guy".  Well, one day I was "outed" (as it were).  The response I got was actually surprising to me.  Fellow students asking questions about my career, my trade, etc.  Funniest was one part when this girl said "I know a guy who's a mechanic or something".  This other girl piped up and said "Yeah?  Well Dave here is in the infantry."  That's right, baby  8)

Another incident sums up nicely the mostly conservative views of the student body at UWO.  There were some "days of action" or some other nonesense going on around 1997 or 98.  I think about 20 UWO students showed up to Protest "Hacksaw" Mike Harris' policies on running the province.  Someone wrote a letter to the UWO Gazette, calling UWO students "pathetic" for not supporting such a noble cause.  Well, the deluge of counter point letters was awesome, as I recall.  Summed up, they basically said that the liked Mike Harris and his policies.

Most of my profs were "normal" people with a wide view of opinions on everything.  One dude, however, took the cake for "nutbar".  We were talking about the fall of the Wall in Germany.  He mentioned that not all in the East were up for the reunification in 1990 and many remained that way after.  He talked of this one "elite" writer (eg: her paycheque was from the old communist regime).  She proposed an experimental state for the GDR.  How typical, because I'm sure that HER job would have been just fine.  I mentioned this to him, and he brushed it off (for some reason).  I pressed the point, emphasising that she was part of the communist state that had no issues with a guarded frontier, whose aim was to keep the people IN that "socialist paradise".

Finally, in History of Totalitarianism, we were talking about 1930s Europe.  "Why didn't people see it coming?  Why did we do nothing vis a vis the Jews in Germany?" 
"What about today?" asked the professor.  It was late 1992, and Yugoslavia was just starting to go really fun.  This one hair head said that we had "the moral obligation to go in and protect the weak (women and children?)".  I countered "It's not our fight.  Let them fight it out, and nothing gets in or out.  Nothing.  Not medicine, not arms, nothing.  If they feel the need to keep on fighting, well, fine.  But if we stop it prematurely, this conflict will fester for generations."  Someone else chimed in and said "I agree with him.  Yes, it's horrible, but in the long run, it will be better for all."  I don't know if the hair head was right, or if I and the person who agreed with me were right, but, there you go.  (The other person was a female student, by the way, though that means little, I suppose).


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## steveyb4342 (10 May 2007)

Im having a problem with a girl around here not liking my magnet. She keeps replaceing it with a "F*** The Troops" magnet. Ive warned her to not touch my car or anything on it and she told me something much along the lines of her magnet. So very very soon she and her car is going to get a VERY rude awakening!  :threat: 


                                                                         Steve


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## Rice0031 (10 May 2007)

steveyb4342 said:
			
		

> Im having a problem with a girl around here not liking my magnet. She keeps replaceing it with a "F*** The Troops" magnet.



...Anger, rising!

How ignorant.


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## George Wallace (10 May 2007)

Well Steve.  Look at it this way, she should soon have spent all her 'welfare' money after you have effectively destroyed 100 or so of her magnets.   ;D


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## Mike Baker (10 May 2007)

Rice0031 said:
			
		

> ...Anger, rising!
> 
> How ignorant.


+1  :rage:


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 May 2007)

steveyb4342 said:
			
		

> Im having a problem with a girl around here not liking my magnet. She keeps replaceing it with a "F*** The Troops" magnet.



Why get mad? Just ask her how many she has #%&@ed, and compliment her on how you love the fact she can be so open about her exploits.....


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## steveyb4342 (10 May 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well Steve.  Look at it this way, she should soon have spent all her 'welfare' money after you have effectively destroyed 100 or so of her magnets.   ;D



hahahaha you wouldnt even believe how many she has put on my car! I actually have been melting them all down and making "rubber" softballs for the boys softball team to practice with hahahaha. 



			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Why get mad? Just ask her how many she has #%&@ed, and compliment her on how you love the fact she can be so open about her exploits.....



HAHAHAHAHA! That I will be doing! Tomorrow when I bet I will find yet another magnet {where does she get them all?!?!} I will definately be asking her that! lol.

In all seriousness though it really p*sses me off cause then people see that magnet on my car and think its mine.  :rage:

                                               Steve


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## BattleHawk (10 May 2007)

Where can I get my hands on some of these support the troops stuff. I live in Coquitlam, near Vancouver. The only place I saw them was at the Abbotsford airshow. I regret not taking one. I rarely see them now, but mostly on cars with the Veterans licence plates. Thanks in advance,
  BattleHawk


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## George Wallace (10 May 2007)

https://www3.cfpsa.com/wyn/en/generalPublic/shoplist_e.asp?uid=688180&location=&dept=6


Taken from the Topic on this subject in the HOME FRONT Forums.

You can order them from CANEX online.


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## I_am_John_Galt (10 May 2007)

BattleHawk said:
			
		

> Where can I get my hands on some of these support the troops stuff. I live in Coquitlam, near Vancouver. The only place I saw them was at the Abbotsford airshow. I regret not taking one. I rarely see them now, but mostly on cars with the Veterans licence plates. Thanks in advance,
> BattleHawk



You can also support the Lower Mainland MFRC directly by ordering from them: http://www.mainlandbcmfrc.com/cms/content.php?cid=123


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## jbeach95 (11 May 2007)

Captain Sensible said:
			
		

> Another incident sums up nicely the mostly conservative views of the student body at UWO.  There were some "days of action" or some other nonesense going on around 1997 or 98.



The "University of Wealthy Ontarians" it is still a fairly conservative school. Protests are often poorly attended, and it seems that the majority of the student population (and the student newspaper) support the troops, criticize other schools' actions towards CF recruiters and defend Stryker armour research that goes on at the university. Unfortunately, I have recently seen sympathetic views for US deserters appearing in the paper. Hopefully this just represents the minority's views.


This from the London Free Press, in addition to more letters to the editor supporting the police (this issue has become fairly well-publicized in London, despite only stemming from a letter from a single person seeking her 15 minutes):



> *Cop cars to keep ribbons*
> London Chief Murray Faulkner says they're in support of the troops, not a political statement.
> By KELLY PEDRO, SUN MEDIA
> 
> ...



Even the NDP supports the police using the ribbons!


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## BattleHawk (11 May 2007)

Thanks, just ordered them now.
  BattleHawk


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## Colin Parkinson (11 May 2007)

BattleHawk said:
			
		

> Where can I get my hands on some of these support the troops stuff. I live in Coquitlam, near Vancouver. The only place I saw them was at the Abbotsford airshow. I regret not taking one. I rarely see them now, but mostly on cars with the Veterans licence plates. Thanks in advance,
> BattleHawk



Sears has the T-shirts and the hats, Canadian Tire sells the magnets.


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## medaid (12 May 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Sears has the T-shirts and the hats, Canadian Tire sells the magnets.



Really?!   That is cool! I have to go and check that out!


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## Jarnhamar (12 May 2007)

> Im having a problem with a girl around here not liking my magnet. She keeps replaceing it with a "F*** The Troops" magnet.



Give her a captian kirk running drop kick.

Assault asside I'd drop some coin and plaster her car in support the troops magnets


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## Disenchantedsailor (13 May 2007)

ex-Sup said:
			
		

> I've seen many on police cars around here.
> 
> I know that there are some staff at my school that do not support what is being done...I overheard one colleague saying "they should only be there building schools!"
> 
> As for myself, I have magnets up in my classroom and in my office. I wear my camo braclet everyday.


Just ask them, whats the point of building a school until we can guarantee it won't get blown up by the radical, security before reconstruction, its the only way it'll work.


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## ex-Sup (13 May 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> Just ask them, whats the point of building a school until we can guarantee it won't get blown up by the radical, security before reconstruction, its the only way it'll work.


You know it, and I know it. Unfortunately I don't have the time or energy to get into a debate that will probably end up being a waste of oxygen. In regards to the actual statement, I'll be professional and keep my comments to myself.  :-X


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## jbeach95 (13 May 2007)

Despite the media's tendency to overblow issues and some people's tendencies to react excessively, I'm still surprised that this thing has received so much attention, considering there appears to be little actual opposition to the magnets and it all started with one letter. Three more articles/editorials in the London Free Press.



> Vets lend backing to ribbon campaign
> By NORMAN DE BONO, SUN MEDIA
> 
> Ontario veterans have thrown their support behind London police cruisers displaying ribbons of support for Canadian troops.
> ...






> Question of support
> Police Chief Murray Faulkner says the ribbon campaign should not be considered political.
> By KELLY PEDRO, SUN MEDIA
> 
> ...






> Ribbons support troops, not war
> 
> Supporting troops has nothing to do with supporting war. Just as anti-war protesters are not necessarily opposed to soldiers.
> 
> ...


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## Disenchantedsailor (13 May 2007)

outstanding research, thanks for the articles, and in case anyone is wondering if other police forces are sporting the ribbons throughout the country.. I saw a RCMP car sporting one yesterday in greater Victoria as well as one of the integrated highway task force cars.


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## armyvern (13 May 2007)

Many municipalities around this Province sporting those same ribbons. Good on them.


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## Yeoman (13 May 2007)

JDBeach said:
			
		

> I guess I've been lucky enough to get professors who aren't anti-military. Many of the ones I have had are anti-war, but support the military. Or at least that's the impression I got. It really depends on the individual.



or how one professor there is the CO of a certain unit right 
Mr. Walsh summed it up best; "The ribbons are a statement of support for the troops, and there is nothing wrong with that"
chin chin


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## Harris (13 May 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Assault asside I'd drop some coin and plaster her car in support the troops magnets



Even better put one in the center of her roof where hopefully she won't see it.


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## jbeach95 (13 May 2007)

Yeoman said:
			
		

> or how one professor there is the CO of a certain unit right



I twice tried to get into one of his courses, but it was always full.


----------



## 48 highlander (19 Jun 2007)

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2007/06/19/4272222-sun.html

I just heard about this on the radio. I'm not gunna write anythin more cuz my blood pressure is still a bit to high. Let's just do something about it


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## formerarmybrat23 (19 Jun 2007)

Firefighters told to remove ribbons backing troops

Pulling fire, ambulance ribbons is wrong

By JOE WARMINGTON
    
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/06/19/4272305-sun.html





> The Support Our Troops ribbon on Toronto Fire vehicles, which were paid for by firefighters, are to be removed in September. (Joe Warmington/Sun Media)
> 
> Our brave troops will still be fighting in Afghanistan this September even if the magnetic ribbon support decals on Toronto Fire trucks and ambulances won't be.
> 
> ...


----------



## Scott (19 Jun 2007)

Pure bullshit.


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## DaveTee (19 Jun 2007)

What a pile of rubbish. Just because a few anti-war people were offended...it says "support our troops", not "support the war". This is the same reason we can't say Merry Christmas anymore, because 10 or 15 people who take everything to heart find the time to protest. Just complete garbage.

There's my 2 cents worth.


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## Mike Baker (19 Jun 2007)

Scott said:
			
		

> Pure bullshit.


+1


----------



## niner domestic (19 Jun 2007)

Well, instead of getting upset I wrote to Mayor Miller...

Dear Mayor Miller:

This letter is in response to your City’s recent dictum that the City’s Fire trucks are no longer going to be allowed to sport a “Support Our Troops” magnet. 

As a spouse, mother and former CF member, I am informing you and your City that my family members and I will no longer be supporting anything that derives from Toronto.  

We will no longer watch, read or listen to any media that is generated from your city.  We will no longer subscribe to any magazine that is printed in Toronto.  We will no longer purchase any literature that was either written by a Torontonian or published by a Toronto firm.  We will no longer avail ourselves to singers and songwriters that find themselves living in the GTA nor will we be buying any of their CDs or attending any of their concerts regardless where they are performing.  

We won’t be attending any museums, art galleries (or purchasing any Toronto artist’s works either), the CNE, Ontario Place or any theatre, playhouse or concert hall or film festival in Toronto.  There will be no talk of Bluejays, Leafs, Raptors or Argos in our house and those games will not be subscribed to on either television, radio or game tickets.  

My film company will not be entering into any agreements with the city to shoot on location, use any Toronto actors or Toronto based IATSE members.  We certainly will not be donating this year to charities that are designated to the arts in the Toronto area.  

My family and I will no longer be consumers of food produced, packaged or marketed in the GTA.  We will be carefully vetting our groceries and their place of origins.  If a Toronto transport company delivers it those products will also be off our shopping lists.  

 My family members won’t be riding, running, walking for any cure this year in the Toronto area and we certainly will not be booking any hotel rooms, flights out of Toronto or day trips on the train to Toronto.  

We won’t be passing our spare change off to your street persons if we should find ourselves travelling through Toronto, your City can find a way to help them instead of my family and families like us.  Our United Way contributions will have any organization originating from Toronto blocked.  

We will not be purchasing any good or services from Toronto companies.  No florists, no furniture, no textiles, no household effects, life insurance, stocks, no online purchases  – nada if it comes from a source in Toronto.  

Not availing ourselves to all things Torontonian may turn out to be a good thing for my family. It will force us to shop and purchase locally, which is perhaps, a good thing as our local level of Government, Merchants and service providers have supported our Troops without question.  Your City’s decision to ban the magnets is an affront to every man and woman who hails from Toronto and who has served and is serving in the CF with pride.  I suggest you and your council take a few trips around your city to view the legions of names on City park memorials of Torontonians who have served. How will you face them come November 11th?

But please don’t hesitate to call the CF again when you have another snow storm, or the need to have a few soldiers on display for an event, I’m sure the men and women of the CF will be more than happy to support your City.  

If your City can not show a support of our troops through a magnet's placement on a Fire truck- then this CF family can not and will not support Toronto.  

Yours truly, 

9D


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## Mike Baker (19 Jun 2007)

Nice work Niner  ;D


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## stealthylizard (19 Jun 2007)

I would like to see the mayor's reply if there ever is one.


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## SiG_22_Qc (19 Jun 2007)

The ribbon says support the troop, it doesn't say support the mission.

Hence nothing political.

So far so good.


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## formerarmybrat23 (19 Jun 2007)

wow niner great letter. I wonder how the mayor would react if every member here wrote in the same thing? I wonder if that would sway him?????


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## FascistLibertarian (19 Jun 2007)

Great letter, dont get mad, get writing!
Think like AI, dont be rude, explain as best you can and dont use bad language or threats, this are resonable, if misguided, people who can be reasoned with.


> More than a month ago pressure was brought to bear by Now magazine, which quoted specifically Councillor Janet Davis. "I do connect the Afghan mission to the Support Our Troops sticker. That is where our troops are being killed," she told Now reporter Andrew Cash in May.
> 
> "Not only does this not communicate a City of Toronto policy, but it also sends a political message about a public policy matter that is quite contentious. And we shouldn't be using public funds for it."



http://www.toronto.ca/councillors/davis1.htm

Janet Davis 
 City Hall
100 Queen Street West, Suite C57
Toronto, ON  M5H 2N2
Phone: 416-392-4035
Fax: 416-397-9289


councillor_davis@toronto.ca

Councillors Davis' website:
www.janetdavis.ca

http://www.toronto.ca/mayor_miller/contact.htm


E-mail: mayor_miller@toronto.ca 

Mail:
Toronto City Hall, 2nd Floor, 100 Queen St. West, Toronto ON M5H 2N2 
Phone: 
416-397-CITY (2489)
Fax:
416-696-3687


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## Danjanou (19 Jun 2007)

formerarmybrat23 said:
			
		

> wow niner great letter. I wonder how the mayor would react if every member here wrote in the same thing? I wonder if that would sway him?????



With his Blondness, Chairman David and his cabal of smug, self serving,  left wings "progressive" Syncopates at Havana on Queen St. West I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## Blindspot (19 Jun 2007)

Here's my contribution:

Dear Mayor Miller,

I find the current decision to peel “Support the Troops” stickers from police and fire service vehicles to be absolutely shameful.

Recently, you signed a document on behalf of the City of Toronto thanking my father for his forty-three years of service to the Canadian Armed Forces upon his retirement. My father made many sacrifices during his long career and yet there are young men and women making ultimate sacrifices at the behest of their countrymen and their political masters. I have also taken some rather touching photographs of you during the last Remembrance Day ceremony at the Cenotaph as you paid your respects. Because of this, I held belief that you indeed actually support our troops irrespective of any political position on the current war in Afghanistan. I don’t believe I was incorrect in my assumption.

There are a number of great and honored regiments throughout the Toronto area that have been institutions within this city since its inception. The members of these regiments do great work in the community in addition to volunteering for deployment. As you may have guessed, they are feeling outraged. As a former member and a future member again, I understand why: a small minority of Toronto citizens and community leaders find political fodder in a simple symbol of fraternal support and enact their will upon our troops’ civil counterparts.

Therefore, all this peeling of support for our troops from the backs of city vehicles because of “contentious” issues, inappropriate “corporate standards” or “one year” projects is really just hogwash.

As a citizen of Toronto, I am ashamed.

Yours truly...


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## deedster (19 Jun 2007)

niner & Blindspot...good work.
I couldn't believe it when I heard it on the news driving home today..I can't relay what immediately came out of my mouth ( I would be be ex-Army.ca-ted).  That blonde bimbo needs to give his head a shake.  Councillor Nunziata is apparently opposing the motion tomorrow, but Danjanou's right, no point holding your breath.  Toronto sucks in so many Miller ways!


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## observor 69 (19 Jun 2007)

Sent an email to Mr.Miller reminding him that the stickers represent "Support for our Troops" not necessarily support for the mission.
Blindspot your letter is excellent, touching on some great points such as members of Toronto regiments presently in Afghanistan.
Hopefully it will cause TO Council to take a second look at this issue.


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## Sarge CD (19 Jun 2007)

Sent an e-mail to the Mayor as well as my councillor.  ,    Support our Troops


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## formerarmybrat23 (19 Jun 2007)

I have also just sent a letter to the mayor. I am not much for words ( i find it hard to organize all my thoughts) but my point was made.  I ended with "i hope you recieve 1000's more letters just like mine" thats all we can do I guess. I get so tired of a loud mouth few, that somehow manage to control and wreck things for the rest of us.  argh


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## Greymatters (19 Jun 2007)

Bloody shameful!  Its city employees supporting federal employees and with a very limited political flavour...


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## mzona (20 Jun 2007)

Yea, except that the politicians don't have to be impartial. That being said, I don't see how these ribbons display any partiality whatsoever.  What about religious signs? Would a Christian policeman who wears a cross be more impartial towards a Muslim suspect then those who don't wear corsses? If he was to be impartial towards a Muslim, it's purely because of his personal convictions, and definitely not because of the cross he wears. Now, I'm talking a bit out of my butt [i.e. I don't know if police officers are allowed to wear crosses], in case the policemen arenT' allowed to wear them, I bet the Sikhs can still wear kirpans [they can't prohibit that] anyways, so take whichever example you please.

Obviously as a human, you can't be 100% impartial, but let's see what the sign stands for. Supporting Canadian troops in Afghanistan means above all adhering to Canadian values such as equitable judicial system and public officer impartiality certainly isn't one of them. It's thus an impartial display of support. THEREFORE THIS SIGN IS NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH POLICE IMPARTIALITY.

Now you, Toronto people, are so offended, but imagine police cars had ribbons that said "I love the Canadian Forces". Now THAT would show favoritism and impartiality, because instead of a sign of support of an international mission that demonstrates true Canadian values, it would show an unjust sympathy towards a federal institution and it would be totally incompatible with the notion of impartiality. 

I think it's fine the way it is.


----------



## observor 69 (20 Jun 2007)

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/227299

Troop decal spat hits city hall
 TheStar.com - News - Troop decal spat hits city hall

Councillors divided about political nature of decals on fire trucks and ambulances

June 20, 2007 
Donovan Vincent
City hall bureau

It started with good intentions.

But the ribbon-shaped decals on fire and ambulance vehicles showing support for Canadian troops created a firestorm of controversy at city hall yesterday.

"Leave things the way they are. Leave the ribbons," Councillor Frances Nunziata told reporters yesterday after making a motion that council extend the one-year use of the decals, which is supposed to end in September. 

Nunziata said she's received calls from concerned veterans. Her motion is to be dealt with today. 

But Mayor David Miller, whose uncle served in the Royal Navy during World War II, said the issue is not as simple as Nunziata suggests; for many the ribbon is a symbol of a "very controversial" military operation going on in Afghanistan that has no place on city vehicles.

"There are calls from people saying, `Why are you expressing support for war in Afghanistan?''' he said, adding he wasn't made aware ahead of time that the decals would appear on city vehicles. 

Many think the ribbons should stay on as long as troops remain in Afghanistan.

Fire Chief Bill Stewart and Emergency Medical Service (EMS) Chief Bruce Farr say the ribbons – some yellow, some red and white – that began appearing on ambulances last fall and fire trucks shortly after, were intended to support Canadian forces everywhere. Plans were to phase them out gradually beginning Sept. 4.

EMS paid for them from taxpayer funds, about $3,000 for roughly 170 vehicles. The fire department used roughly the same amount in union funds. Proceeds go to a fund for Canadian soldiers and their families. 

"I think it's important to give gestures of support for our troops, but it's also appropriate to say we're doing something for a year," Miller said, adding he doesn't believe there was a breach of protocol.

Some councillors, such as David Shiner and Karen Stintz, wondered why a "political campaign" like Miller's push for one cent of the GST– including lapel pins, posters and ads on TTC property – is allowed to go ahead, while the ribbon campaign is ending.

Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone said the One Cent Now campaign has a direct link to transit funding, which will benefit the city.

When the issue bubbled up yesterday, city manager Shirley Hoy held an impromptu meeting with Farr and Stewart to deal with the fallout. The chiefs said they alone made the decision to allow the decals – and the decision to limit them to one year. Both say they've heard mixed views on the issue.

"Some say leave (the decals) on forever, others say get them off, (because) they have no place on a municipally owned and operated vehicle," Farr said.

Some councillors complained to Hoy soon after the ribbons first appeared. In response to her queries, she received a memo in May explaining the decals would be phased out as vehicles come in for maintenance, she said.

Councillor Janet Davis said she was among those who had voiced opposition to the decals.

"I don't think we should be using city facilities or vehicles for promoting political messages about matters that fall outside the city's jurisdiction, particularly if they're contentious," she said. She added that personally she supports Canada's troops. Scott Marks, president of the Toronto Professional Fire Fighters' Association, said his union sees the decals as a "non-political gesture'' and hopes Nunziata's motion is approved.


----------



## MarkOttawa (20 Jun 2007)

This link has audio of an interview this morning by Steve Madely of CFRA, Ottawa, with Toronto city councilor Frances Nunziata, who opposes the mayor's move.
http://www.cfra.com/chum_audio/Frances_Nunziata_June20.mp3

This link gives the e-mail addresses of the mayor and the councillor should you wish to express your views to them.
http://www.cfra.com/interviews/index.asp

Mr Madely is suggesting to his listeners that they should refrain from visiting the Big Smoke if the mayor succeeds in having the decals removed from city vehicles. 

And a CFRA poll at this link:
http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp

"Despite complaints it's an insult to Cdn soldiers,Toronto's mayor supports plans to remove "Support Our Troops" decals from fire trucks & ambulances,saying it can be seen as an endorsement of the war in Afghanistan. Ottawa fire trucks still have the decals. Should decals stay on Ottawa fire trucks & be allowed on police cars & ambulances?"

*Listen live* to Lowell Green on CFRA from 0900 1200 Eastern--he's sure to deal with this:
http://www.cfra.com/listen/index.asp

Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (20 Jun 2007)

Two good pieces (Lowell Green is doing this issue, huge listener response--CD of show will be sent to Mayor Miller):

Toronto Mayor treads recklessly
John Ivison, _National Post_
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/canada/story.html?id=61367361-4ed0-4058-881d-65560e6cc704



> As Toronto councillors discussed yesterday whether to overturn a decision to remove the Support Our Troops bumper stickers from city fire trucks and ambulances, 50 kilometres eastward along Highway 401 mourners prepared for the funeral of Trooper Darryl Caswell in Bowmanville today.
> 
> *Perhaps Mayor David Miller should take time out to explain to the family of Trooper Caswell, who was killed in Afghanistan last week, why he supports not only the removal of the decals but the early withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan* [emphasis added].
> 
> ...



Councillors, let's not kid the troops
Lorrie Goldstein, _Toronto Sun_
http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/Commentary/2007/06/20/4275031.html



> So apparently everyone on Toronto City Council from Mayor David Miller on down supports our troops serving in Afghanistan. Terrific.
> 
> But when the issue comes before council today, the majority is expected to vote to remove the "Support our Troops" decals now on city emergency vehicles, starting in September.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Mike Baker (20 Jun 2007)

There is now one of those petitions online about this, here is the link.


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## Old Sweat (20 Jun 2007)

I sent an email to the mayor informing him that if the decision to remove the decals was not overturned, I would both boycott Toronto and advise anyone that asked not to travel to the city. As I was not in a very good mood, I added that this was not a difficult decision to make, as Toronto was becoming a less and less desirable destination, because of the crime, panhandling and filth.

The email was also sent to the tourism and convention bureau.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (20 Jun 2007)

I posted a link to the petition on Canadiangunnutz, that should help.


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## Greymatters (20 Jun 2007)

I dont think the signatures will be of any value unless you are a resident of Toronto?


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## Mike Baker (20 Jun 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> I dont think the signatures will be of any value unless you are a resident of Toronto?


Still, it dosn't matter.


----------



## Munxcub (20 Jun 2007)

I don't think online petitions do anything anyway, no real signatures. Basically just shows support for something, sort of like a poll I guess.


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## ArmyRick (20 Jun 2007)

I think the very thought that people are protesting the use of a sticker that represents a nation standing behind the troops is sickening.

This is a bunch of loser idiots just looking to make a name for themselves. SUPPORT THE TROOPS!

60 Canadian Souls should be enough of a one sided argument to LET all Canadians put up the stickers.   

Enough of this impartiality BS!


----------



## mzona (20 Jun 2007)

why are you people so pissed? As I said, these ribbons don't affect impartiality whatsoever, they promote Canadian values. Is it so crazy to place a sign that our government supports canadian involvement in Afghanistan, made as an expression of Canadian values? Now for the vets, they're not forgotten, we honor them on the Remembrance day, but it doesn't mean that we can't support the soldiers that are currently fighting. I don't see anything wrong with it. So I join ArmyRick in disapproval.


----------



## Teflon (20 Jun 2007)

Munxcub said:
			
		

> I don't think online petitions do anything anyway, no real signatures. Basically *just shows support for something*, sort of like a poll I guess.



Kind of like the stickers / magnets - *It's all about the support*


----------



## Colin Parkinson (20 Jun 2007)

I see WOW is putting up stickers on telephone poles telling people to resist the war, as a good citizen I removed the sticker defacing city property.


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## medaid (20 Jun 2007)

Colin where'd you see that? I think I should join you on a sticker hunt! Maybe that can be an activity at the Vancouver M&G? The most stickers collected wins something  I don't know... something cool  Like the Team Canada hat Farmboy's got made up  ;D


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## Munxcub (20 Jun 2007)

Teflon said:
			
		

> Kind of like the stickers / magnets - *It's all about the support*



No doubt, I was just saying that people shouldn't expect an online petition to achieve anything. (Other then the show of support, etc...) I've got my magnet on my car and have been flipped off at least once that I've seen for having it. (jerk wouldn't let me merge in either... what a jerk...)

I can see where they are coming from in having these removed, vocal minority/squeeky wheel BS... I still think it's weak as hell though...


----------



## ArmyRick (20 Jun 2007)

This si the email i sent to Mayor Miller 
"Sir, 60 Canadians have been killed in Afghanistan serving our country. I urge you to allow any Canadian serving in your staff or your services to put up the stickers. What is so impartial about supporting those who support the soldiers, who lives have been and will continue to be in harms way. Those who protest in any way the use of these stickers on government vehicles are actually hiding their true agenda, to smear the Harper government in any way they can. This is not one issue to use as a political football match.



Also, if you need more convincing, I ask you or any of your staff to attend a military funeral of a soldier who has been killed in the line of duty in Afghanistan. Maybe then this whole debate will end, its pretty straight forward. May our nation bless all those who serve our country.



Thank you for reading this, ....."


----------



## medaid (20 Jun 2007)

mzona said:
			
		

> why are you people so pissed? As I said, these ribbons don't affect impartiality whatsoever, they promote Canadian values. Is it so crazy to place a sign that our government supports canadian involvement in Afghanistan, made as an expression of Canadian values? Now for the vets, they're not forgotten, we honor them on the Remembrance day, but it doesn't mean that we can't support the soldiers that are currently fighting. I don't see anything wrong with it.




ummm sorry mzona, I'm having a hard time following your train of thought here. Maybe you can clear it up for me...

But the one thing I DO have a problem with, is that you seem to share the same ideas and thoughts as the majority of Canadian citizens. Your comment about Veterans peeved me. Greatly. 

WE as citizens of Canada should never honour our veterans on Remembrance Day. We should honour them ALWAYS. Having one day dedicated to them is nothing in my point of view. It is worthless, because most Canadians have no clue what Remembrance Day is all about. I can't really see the connection between Remembrance Day and those who currently serve and fight either... maybe you could clear that up too.

One last thing. You PROUDLY displayed your service before in another thread, but I noticed that you still haven't filled out your profile. It kind of irks me to read comments from people who boasts their service but is unwilling to put it in the open...


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## the 48th regulator (20 Jun 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> WE as citizens of Canada should never honour our veterans on Remembrance Day. We should honour them ALWAYS. Having one day dedicated to them is nothing in my point of view. It is worthless, because most Canadians have no clue what Remembrance Day is all about. I can't really see the connection between Remembrance Day and those who currently serve and fight either... maybe you could clear that up too.




Although I sympathize with your feelings, I disagree.  That statement would be akin to keeping our flags at half mast for every Canadian that has fallen, which has been debated ad nausea, but would never show our strength to the enemy.  Maybe if November 11th were supported day a bit more, Remembrance would have a better connection to Afghanistan.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42677.0.html

Is a link I started, which maybe a good place to start.

dileas

tess


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## Danjanou (20 Jun 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> I dont think the signatures will be of any value unless you are a resident of Toronto?



Even then I doubt they will have much impact. However I signed it and pointed out I both live and work in TO and am a former soldier.


----------



## mzona (20 Jun 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> ummm sorry mzona, I'm having a hard time following your train of thought here. Maybe you can clear it up for me...
> 
> But the one thing I DO have a problem with, is that you seem to share the same ideas and thoughts as the majority of Canadian citizens. Your comment about Veterans peeved me. Greatly.
> 
> ...



Med Tech
Well then if we should ALWAYS honor our veterans, shouldn't we honor them on Remembrance day too? It seems like attacking words, bot that's exactly what you do. YES, you're right, we should honor our veterans every day, my dad and gramps were both military you know. Now if you go back and reread my post I invite you to quote me the part where I calim there was a connection between Afghanistan and Remembrance day. If I do then sorry, it was a mistake.

Now I've never proudly displayed anything. To quote myself, I said about my service "it's nothing compared to what most of you guys have been through". And even though I didn't fill out a profile, I DID give a summary description of it. Now of course you can confirm everything I say with a member of staff who keep logs of deleted posts, but I'm kinda surprised you haven't read it yourself. Or maybe you have and post this as a personal attack.

All right, for the last time,
I'm Pte Babenko, a former member of Comm Res, who only did basic courses and a class B, but enjoyed his stay in the army a lot all the same. I've also been in the air cadets prior to reserves.

Does it still irk you?

EDIT: BTW, Med Tech, your profile doesn't give us lots of info either, huh. How so?


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## niner domestic (20 Jun 2007)

The City has voted unanimously to keep the magnet ON the city vehicles.  

Yay! 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070620/decals_vote_070620/20070620?hub=TopStories


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## Danjanou (20 Jun 2007)

Score one for the good guys. Part of me is pleasantly surprised by this, part remains cynical. They only did this because of the stink being raised.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070620/decals_vote_070620/20070620?hub=Canada

Reprinted here with the usual caveats



> Updated Wed. Jun. 20 2007 2:48 PM ET
> CTV.ca News Staff
> 
> Toronto councillors voted unanimously on Wednesday to extend the use of 'Support Our Troops' decals on fire and emergency medical service vehicles.
> ...



Edit: dammit someone is faster at posting than me :-[


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## the 48th regulator (20 Jun 2007)

> Coun. Janet Davis told the Toronto Star she supports Canada's troops, but opposed the use of the decals.
> 
> "I don't think we should be using city facilities or vehicles for promoting political messages about matters that fall outside the city's jurisdiction, particularly if they're contentious," she said.



Can they get it into their thick skulls, that this support is in no way political??  We serve any party that is in power.

Sweet Mother of God.

dileas

tess


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## Old Sweat (20 Jun 2007)

I just received an email from Access Toronto advising me that at the mayor's recommendation, Toronto council has unanimously endorsed the extension of the Support Our Troops ribbon campaign. 

This is still unconfirmed and I note it refers to ribbons, not decals. Look to your front.


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## pjocsak (20 Jun 2007)

Courtesy of the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070620.wtroopdec0620/BNStory/Front

*Toronto votes to keep troop decals*

Canadian Press

June 20, 2007 at 2:50 PM EDT

TORONTO — Decals on emergency vehicles showing support for Canada's troops will remain on Toronto's emergency vehicles for at least another year.

City councillors voted unanimously today in favour of keeping the “Support Our Troops” decals on fire trucks and ambulances.

The issue became a political hot potato after Mayor David Miller backed a plan by fire and ambulance officials to have the stickers removed, starting in September.

The decal campaign was originally scheduled to last only one year, and officials said they had fielded calls from the public expressing concern the decals were a symbol of support for the war in Afghanistan.

The controversy around the removal issue culminated today in unanimous support at city hall for motion to keep the decals on the vehicles indefinitely.

Earlier today, the Royal Canadian Legion said it hoped Toronto would continue to display the decals.

Although Mr. Miller had indicated he wouldn't support the motion, he said today the death of three more soldiers in Afghanistan brought the issue home for him.


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## Loachman (20 Jun 2007)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> We serve any party that is in power.



Her Majesty is a party?


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## Blindspot (20 Jun 2007)

Noticeably, Janet Davis, among a handful of other councillors were absent for the vote. She and Pam McConnell reappeared promptly after the vote. To me, this speaks to political cowardice of the basest level.


----------



## the 48th regulator (20 Jun 2007)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Her Majesty is a party?



She has been known to throw a good one, 

dileas

tess


----------



## Danjanou (20 Jun 2007)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Noticeably, Janet Davis, among a handful of other councillors were absent for the vote. She and Pam McConnell reappeared promptly after the vote. To me, this speaks to political cowardice of the basest level.



Ok lucky me. I just checked the new house we bought. This moon bat Davis will now be my new city councilor in a few months. Up to now I thought anything would be an improvment on the twit I have now. :


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## Yrys (20 Jun 2007)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Up to now I thought anything would be an improvment on the twit I have now. :



You were too optomistic   !


----------



## medaid (20 Jun 2007)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Although I sympathize with your feelings, I disagree.  That statement would be akin to keeping our flags at half mast for ever Canadian that has fallen, which has been debated ad nausea, but would never show our strength to the enemy.  Maybe if November 11th were supported day a bit more, Remembrance would have a better connection to Afghanistan.



I guess what I meant by that is, we should honour them personally in our own ways everyday of our lives. Remember their sacrifices and think about the lives that we have because of them. Not that flags need to be half mast everyday at all. I personally can see the connections between Nov 11 and our current mission and all of our brothers and sister that we've lost over there. My point was I didn't get what mzona meant with the connection.


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## Blindspot (20 Jun 2007)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Ok lucky me. I just checked the new house we bought. This moon bat Davis will now be my new city councilor in a few months. Up to now I thought anything would be an improvment on the twit I have now. :



I heard they were going to rename your ward: Ward 31, Beaches/East Layton.


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## medaid (20 Jun 2007)

mzona said:
			
		

> EDIT: BTW, Med Tech, your profile doesn't give us lots of info either, huh. How so?



I filled mine out. Nuff said. There are those who know who I am.


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## the 48th regulator (20 Jun 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I guess what I meant by that is, we should honour them personally in our own ways everyday of our lives. Remember their sacrifices and think about the lives that we have because of them. Not that flags need to be half mast everyday at all. I personally can see the connections between Nov 11 and our current mission and all of our brothers and sister that we've lost over there. My point was I didn't get what mzona meant with the connection.



I was confused with yoru statement.  Either way, Rememberance day, has been dedicated as a day to remember our Soldier both fallen and those that have survived.  We must place a greater emphasis on this day.

Recognizing that our freedom is owed to them, is also a must on a daily basis.

dileas

tess


----------



## mzona (20 Jun 2007)

Ok, the anti-ribbon people claim that "Support our Troops" pisses off vets and soldiers that are not currently in Afghanistan. I said that we pay our respects to vets and remember and prey for them on the Remembrance day, and MedTech said that we do it pretty much every day, which further supports the argument that 'Support the troops' ribbons don't diminish in any way their work and thus shouldn't be interpreted this way. I guess that's the connection.


----------



## observor 69 (20 Jun 2007)

Reply I received from the Mayor's Office:

From: Mayor Miller 
To: xxxx
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Support our Troops


Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your email letter.



I appreciate you taking the time to write to share your perspective.



The Mayor has been clear that he supports our troops, especially those put in dangerous circumstances and he will continue to do so.  I should note like many families, the Mayor too has family in the military.  We feel the best outcome would be to have everyone come home safely.



The mayor attended a rally in Toronto last summer supporting the troops and signed a banner sent to serving troops.



The matter of the decals removal was strictly administrative and not a political decision.

At no time were the Chiefs Fire and EMS ordered to remove the ribbons from their vehicles. Media reporting on this issue has been somewhat inaccurate.



The reality in Toronto is that there are many people who have written expressing concern that the decals were on the vehicles in the first place. They saw it as a sign of support for a particular military action that has divided Canadians.



The Chiefs of EMS and Fire have stated that the ribbon campaign was, from the outset, time limited and was undertaken as a symbol of the support we all have for our troops serving abroad.



The one-year program was a compromise to allow support while respecting those who were offended by the decals in the first place.



The emergency services have a long history of working closely with our military services.  Both Emergency Medical Services and Toronto Fire train and work side-by-side with the military to ensure preparedness for emergencies and to share best practices. That relationship will continue.



The city of Toronto was also the first to lower its flag in respect when the federal government would not for a fallen Torontonian.



The ribbon campaign is part of a national program that was established by the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency.  Emergency services from across Canada have participated in this program. The emergency services share the common thread of personal sacrifice, dedication and professionalism with Canadian forces and the two services will continue to support and work with Canada's military.



The removal of the ribbons will take place as part of the regular maintenance cycle for the vehicles. Starting in September, removal of the ribbons from all emergency services' vehicles will take 5 or 6 months as they come in for maintenance.



Again, the Mayor strongly supports the troops and that will never change irrespective of what decals or stickers are on some city vehicles.



Yours truly,

Joanne Miller


----------



## deedster (20 Jun 2007)

InterestedCivilian said:
			
		

> Although Mr. Miller had indicated he wouldn't support the motion, he said today the death of three more soldiers in Afghanistan brought the issue home for him.


Am I the only one who thinks this is sad pathetic on his part?  What, does he need a body-count? 
I think he should dye his hair pink (there is no controversy with the breast cancer issue), I mean, it is YELLOW right now.  Unbelievable.  
Although I am happy with the outcome I think I smell _politics_.  Gosh.


----------



## formerarmybrat23 (20 Jun 2007)

> The controversy around the removal issue culminated today in unanimous support at city hall for motion to keep the decals on the vehicles indefinitely.


this news story says the above



> The removal of the ribbons will take place as part of the regular maintenance cycle for the vehicles. Starting in September, removal of the ribbons from all emergency services' vehicles will take 5 or 6 months as they come in for maintenance.



So joanne miller sent this email to you before the vote obviously. I hate those letters that start with "thank you" and end with "we are doing what we want to anyways". 

Maybe more people then we know wrote in expressing their feelings.


----------



## the 48th regulator (20 Jun 2007)

> The city of Toronto was also the first to lower its flag in respect when the federal government would not for a fallen Torontonian.



And this is not a political statement, does she even realize why the Government did not do that?

Doodleloo....Doodleloo.....Doodleloo...we were the ones that did not them not them.   we really suppot them better, and we can run our government better.

It's all the media's fault.  Which was why they decided on their own for the vote, it was already planned really....by the way we were first to lower the flag, and Mayor Miller signed a banner sometime last year so he did..

dileas

tess


----------



## adaminc (21 Jun 2007)

I saw on the news just a few minutes ago that they have decided to keep the ribbons!, woo!


----------



## Greymatters (21 Jun 2007)

Lady Justice triumphs!


----------



## Blindspot (22 Jun 2007)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Noticeably, Janet Davis, among a handful of other councillors were absent for the vote. She and Pam McConnell reappeared promptly after the vote. To me, this speaks to political cowardice of the basest level.



A bit of a retraction here: Janet Davis voted in favour for the first vote. She did not vote in the second vote. Pam McConnell refused to vote despite having a nephew who returned home from Afghanistan injured.


----------



## Journeyman (22 Jun 2007)

Naturally, there's always one.....   :

Article Link



> *Youth worker will wear only black on Fridays to protest "Support our Troops" stickers*
> 
> June 22, 2007
> Angered that Toronto city council voted to allow the continuation of decals on city fire trucks and ambulances, a youth worker employed by a city-funded community centre is protesting the decision.
> ...


----------



## Blindspot (22 Jun 2007)

> The words on the decals should say "We support the troops, bring them home now,'' Mirza said.



That's right. Because it's only ok for the decals to have a political message, as long as it's the one you support.


----------



## Red 6 (22 Jun 2007)

I don't understand people like this Mirza guy. Where does it say on the magnet "I support the war"? Saying that you care about the Soldiers we send into harm's way is a simple thing and to my way of thinking, doesn't have a political message. The troops aren't a political football to be batted around. They're human beings.


----------



## CF_Enthusiast (22 Jun 2007)

He said he only supports troops in peace keeping roles. So why should he be against these ribbons? It says "Support ou Troops". That covers everything from war to PEACE KEEPING. I think he is just crying out for attention but in the process he is making him self look like a moron.

And I agree with Blindspot, What a hypocrit. 

"I don't think that public service vehicles should have a political message on them that alot of people don't agree with, they should have "Out of Afghanistan now!" on them." 

Why do we even publish this crap?  :


----------



## Haggis (22 Jun 2007)

Toronto Police are getting onboard.

Shared in accordance with that "Fair Dealings" thingy. (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/06/22/4281317-sun.html)



> *T.O. cops to join troop campaign*
> 'It means a lot to us,' wounded vet says
> By JOE WARMINGTON
> 
> ...


----------



## Slim (22 Jun 2007)

> But Mirza, who describes himself as a pacifist – his parents protested the Vietnam War and other conflicts, and he has marched in anti-war demonstrations – will be wearing a T-shirt that says "War resisters welcome here."



Hey folks

Please...take it easy on the poor little protester...after all he's just carrying on a time-honoured family tradition here! Looks like members of his family were civily disobedient going back several generations now!

I don't support my country!

And on a happier note the "_silent majority_" has now spoken and let the mayor know *EXACTLY * how the majority of Torontonians does feel.

However I still don't like David Miller very much.

Slimsky


----------



## Haggis (22 Jun 2007)

Slim said:
			
		

> And on a happier note the "_silent majority_" has now spoken and let the mayor know *EXACTLY * how the majority of Torontonians does feel.



Well I found out just how one Torontonain feels.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63474.0.html

And from what I've seen and heard since then, he is one of the majority.


----------



## deedster (22 Jun 2007)

Slim said:
			
		

> However I still don't like David Miller very much.


Couldn't agree with you more Slim.  And it drives me nuts that those of us in the GTA don't have a "vote" as far as he's concerned, although what he does affects us Big Time.  And good on the cops!

D2  

Note: was following a Halton Region EMS vehicle on my way home today...no S.O.T. ribbon...I'm going to start working on that.


----------



## Slim (22 Jun 2007)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Well I found out just how one Torontonain feels.
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63474.0.html
> 
> And from what I've seen and heard since then, he is one of the majority.



Good Brother

Makes me happy to read that!


----------



## Haggis (22 Jun 2007)

Slim said:
			
		

> Good Brother
> 
> Makes me happy to read that!



Yep, I hear ya!  Told the story this morning on PT and nobody could believe it was a guy from Toronto that did this.

Man, has The Big Smoke ever got a bad rep!


----------



## RangerRay (22 Jun 2007)

Here in BC, I've yet to see any vehicle from the RCMP, BC Ambulance, or any fire department with a yellow ribbon magnet.



Edited for clarification.


----------



## Boxkicker (24 Jun 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Apparently she may not be old enough to remember as far back as a couple of years ago when the Liberal Party was governing...and those exact same yellow "Support Our Troops" ribbons were being worn on the ***-end of vehicles nation-wide (including those of various Provincial/City level services).
> 
> Or, perhaps she chooses to ignore that little factoid.



  Alot of people have ignored some factoids like it was the Liberals that sent us to Khandahar, I guess those little facts seem to be forgotten by Stephane Dion. But after the PM's recent anouncement I reminded them of it. I emailed him, Taliban Jack and Duceppe and called them all hypocrites and cowards. I also said Duceppe was a traitor. The left wing of this country wants it all and they want it now.


----------



## Boxkicker (24 Jun 2007)

CF Enthusiast said:
			
		

> He said he only supports troops in peace keeping roles.


 To bad most Canadians do not even realise how much of a bunch of BS the UN is.


----------



## vonGarvin (24 Jun 2007)

Boxkicker said:
			
		

> To bad most Canadians do not even realise how much of a bunch of BS the UN is.


Well, the UN's support for the ISAF mission is lost on the loons, in any respect...


----------



## Boxkicker (24 Jun 2007)

Captain Sensible said:
			
		

> Well, the UN's support for the ISAF mission is lost on the loons, in any respect...


  The loony left is very convenient in their version of the truth.


----------



## ms (24 Jun 2007)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> Here in BC, I've yet to see any vehicle from the RCMP, BC Ambulance, or any fire department with a yellow ribbon magnet.



I accept that challenge. The VPD has given two officers leave from duty here and they are currently training in Edmonton to go over with 1-08. Management has been very supportive of military troops of late. If someone can advise where or how I can get the magnets I'll do my best to get them on our vehicles.


----------



## Greymatters (25 Jun 2007)

Well done PMT-9D!


----------



## Command-Sense-Act 105 (25 Jun 2007)

https://www3.cfpsa.com/wyn/en/generalPublic/shoplist_e.asp?uid=353868&location=&dept=6


----------



## ms (30 Jun 2007)

Command-Sense-Act 105 said:
			
		

> https://www3.cfpsa.com/wyn/en/generalPublic/shoplist_e.asp?uid=353868&location=&dept=6



Excellent. Thank you.


----------



## 1feral1 (30 Jun 2007)

I don't find anything wrong with a city supporting its citizens. They are not supporting the war, or pro war for that matter, just pro citizen. Good on them for putting the magnets on!

My 2 cents,

Wes


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## RangerRay (1 Jul 2007)

PMT 9D said:
			
		

> I accept that challenge. The VPD has given two officers leave from duty here and they are currently training in Edmonton to go over with 1-08. Management has been very supportive of military troops of late. If someone can advise where or how I can get the magnets I'll do my best to get them on our vehicles.



Cool!   

Now you just have to get the Mounties, BC Ambulance, and the fire departments on side!  ;D


----------



## RangerRay (4 Jul 2007)

I will add though, that I have seen Conservation Officer trucks here with yellow ribbon magnets!


----------



## Disenchantedsailor (4 Jul 2007)

VPD has also let a guy go for an 8 week course in gagetown, and I'll add that Saanich Fire has let a few guys go for trg and the westshore RCMP Cars, albeit infrequently display the yellow ribbon magnets (especially on the ghosty cars - makes look not so copish)


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## a_majoor (7 Jul 2007)

From " Joanne's Journey"

http://jojourn.blogspot.com/  (July 7 2007)



> *Yellow politicans refuse yellow ribbons*
> My respect for the Record has been restored today. Their awesome editorial takes Waterloo Regional Chair Ken Seiling and Kitchener mayor Carl Zehr to task for their wimpy behaviour regarding the display of Yellow Ribbons in support of our brave troops:
> 
> ...It is understandable that Seiling and Zehr refuse to recognize one club, charity or special interest group out of concern that they might run afoul of the law unless they recognize every group. But the Canadian Armed Forces are unique. They are not an interest group, ethnic club or religion. They have no political allegiance beyond their willingness to serve and protect this democracy.
> ...


----------



## Brockvegas (7 Jul 2007)

I fail to see why this has become such a huge issue. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean that I don't understand the arguments on both sides. I just don't understand how people who 99.9% of the time are completely dismissive of our puplic services, have decided that STICKERS are what they want to speak out against.

It is not that I don't think they have the right to voice their opinions(it's our troops that protect that right), I just think that there are more pressing issues that they could be concerned with, ie. funding, response times, police presence in certain neighborhoods.

Just my opinion, Brockvegas

_EDITED- Spelling_


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## Nemo888 (7 Jul 2007)

Politicizing this may not be a good idea.


----------



## McG (8 Jul 2007)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Politicizing this may not be a good idea.


Sadly, too late.

. . . You are right though.


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## goodform (8 Jul 2007)

What?! Executive decision on 'higher priority' items, BV? Now where's fun is that? *slowly backs out of room*

All in jest. Valid points either side, even if some are not directly on topic IMO.


----------



## proudnurse (12 Jul 2007)

Article from my hometown news paper I noted today, in relation to our thread here. 

Source: Kitchener-Waterloo Record 07/11/2007

article link http://www.therecord.com/home_page_local_story/home_page_local_story_1095992.html

Article shared here, in accordance with fairdealings of the copyright act

Police can wear pins for troops
Police service opts to let officers, not vehicles, show support for soldiers
CHERRI GREENO


Police officers can wear pins to show support for soldiers.

  
WATERLOO REGION (Jul 11, 2007)

Waterloo regional police officers will soon have the option of adding another accessory to their uniform -- a specially designed pin to show support for Canadian soldiers.

"It's very heartwarming for us . . . that they want to do something," said Jan Daum, a Waterloo mother of two soldiers who served in Afghanistan.

"They (the soldiers) like to know they have support . . . maybe not for the mission but for them."

The pin, expected to be available Aug. 1, features the police service crest surrounded by a yellow ribbon.

Police Chief Larry Gravill said wearing a pin is "a personal display" of support.

"It's a real person wearing a pin that signifies support for our troops," he said.

The move comes on the heels of a controversial debate among local and regional councillors about whether emergency service vehicles should display magnetized Support Our Troops decals.

A couple of things troubled the politicians.

They were concerned about opening the door to similar demonstrations of support for other causes. And they were worried the decals might be offensive to those who disagree with the mission in Afghanistan.

By yesterday, however, Waterloo regional councillors and their counterparts in Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo had decided to allow the decals on emergency vehicles -- specifically regional ambulances and city fire trucks.

In a news release, Regional Chair Ken Seiling said he didn't want the move to be construed as "anything more than it is -- support and concern for the safety and well-being of Canadian soldiers everywhere carrying out a job assigned by the Canadian government."

Although it wasn't formally asked, the Waterloo regional police service decided to join the cause. Instead of a decal, a pin is being made for all uniform, civilian and volunteer members of the service.

Insp. Bryan Larkin said the police service has fewer than 100 marked cars but about 900 members.

"This way we get to show more support," he said.

"This allows all of our members the option."

Tom Galloway, chair of the police services board, said the pin is a "very visible show of support for the safe return of the soldiers" and in no way stands as a message on war.

"We are not trying to offend anyone who is opposed to the mission."

The police service has several members who have either served, or are serving, in the Canadian military.

Police staff have been subtly showing support by encouraging staff to wear red on Fridays and sending care packages overseas.

"We do have families locally who are trying to get through every day with their son or daughter in conflict," Galloway said.

cgreeno@therecord.com


----------



## Greymatters (12 Jul 2007)

proudnurse said:
			
		

> Tom Galloway, chair of the police services board, said the pin is a "very visible show of support for the safe return of the soldiers" and in no way stands as a message on war.



+1, hope someone can shake his hand for the rest of us.


----------



## retiredgrunt45 (16 Jul 2007)

And on the other side of the coin, if these terrorists were to come to our shores and attack our cities, who do you think these very morons" would call upon first to save their sorry carcases. The only opinion they would have then is for our troops to save their sorry butts. 

Its just hunky dorry if its not in our back yard for these blathering idiots to mouth of or not support our troops in Afghanistan, but if the shoe is on the other foot, they run and hide like a scared dog with its tail between it's legs. 

I just don't understand what's wrong with many of these people. 

*Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy." *

[/b] "Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf"

     _It Doesn't Take a Hero_


----------



## 3rd Herd (16 Jul 2007)

Tie a yellow ribbon  
Apolitically ribbonating K/W crash wagons  
Adam McGuire - Columnist   
Imprint Univeristy of Waterloo  Official Student Newspaper
Members of the Canadian armed forces must be breathing a sigh of relief today.

Sure, some of the troops may be in constant grave danger or horrifying conditions. But, thanks to local municipal governments, Canadian soldiers now have the difference maker: They have yellow ribbon magnets in the Waterloo region. 

Earlier this week, the cities of Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo along with the regional municipality of Waterloo all agreed to place “support our troops” magnetic decals on emergency vehicles. Furthermore, while Waterloo Regional Police cars don’t have the ribbons (yet), they have offered a yellow ribbon pin to any officer who wishes to wear one. And, of course, this all culminates into one poignant question: What the hell do these ribbons do?

Short answer — nothing.

Long answer — absolutely nothing.

Supporting soldiers is like supporting oxygen — everyone automatically does it, right? There’s an inherent problem with the yellow ribbons. Some see these things not as supporting the troops, but supporting a war. 

People who back the ribbon initiative all say the same thing: this is supporting the troops, not neccesarily a support of war. And as for those who loathe the idea of ribbon decals, they say... well, they say the same thing — they support the troops, but not the war. Seemingly, everybody supports the soldiers, they just can’t figure out how to support them. So why pass a motion for a cause that every Canadian being already believes in?...........................http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1565&Itemid=58&issuedate=2007-07-13

THOUGHTS


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## Sassy (16 Jul 2007)

Those who object the yellow ribbon have no issue with flying the Gay Pride symbol.  How far left has this country gone when it's a noble thing to display a ribbon because of whom you have sex with but it's war mongering to display our pride in our Military Members.  Sigh, more socialist dogm that belongs in the PCed groups trash can. 

A war monger and proud of it, I've seen nothing positive and decisive ever come from the peaceniks and the tree huggers or socialist leaders in Torona.  I'll display the yellow ribbon with pride and pray for our troops safe return.


----------



## Blindspot (17 Jul 2007)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> And on the other side of the coin, if these terrorists were to come to our shores and attack our cities, who do you think these very morons" would call upon first to save their sorry carcases. The only opinion they would have then is for our troops to save their sorry butts.



I wonder how many of them would become collaborators?


----------



## FastEddy (17 Jul 2007)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> I wonder how many of them would become collaborators?




Not many, as my take of Collaboration, means Participation and they didn't have the Bollocks in the first place to do anything.

But it wouldn't surprise me to see them convert to a popular Region to try and save their sorry Butts.

Cheers.


----------



## proudnurse (19 Jul 2007)

An article I noted tonight. Very nice read  

Article link/Kitchener Waterloo Record: http://www.therecord.com/home_page_local_story/home_page_local_story_1102227.html

Article shared in accordance with the fairdealings. 

Wednesday, July 18, 2007 | Updated at 7:23 AM EDT


Soldiers grateful for support
Yellow ribbons touch hearts of firefighters serving overseas
MELINDA DALTON

ROBERT WILSON, RECORD STAFF

  
KITCHENER (Jul 18, 2007)

Yellow ribbons are starting to make an appearance on emergency vehicles in Kitchener and Waterloo.

The ribbons, symbolizing support for Canadian soldiers overseas, were added to Waterloo's 15 fire trucks and support vehicles last week.

Yesterday, the Kitchener Fire Department affixed its first ribbon to one of 20 support vehicles.

The entire fleet won't be outfitted until a small kink is worked out. The ribbon magnets ordered by the city won't stick to the department's aluminum-sided trucks.

That problem has also delayed putting the decals on the region's aluminum-backed ambulances, though stickers ordered for those vehicles are expected to arrive before Aug. 1, said John Prno, director of Emergency Medical Services.

The Waterloo and Cambridge fire departments ordered the yellow stickers as well, a move Kitchener will follow, Chief Tim Beckett said.

The glitch didn't prevent the Kitchener department from holding a ceremony yesterday, where the first ribbon was stuck on a magnet-friendly vehicle.

Military families, politicians, soldiers and firefighters gathered at fire department headquarters on Strasburg Road to watch as Beckett placed a ribbon on a command vehicle.

"It means the world to me and puts a smile on my face knowing people care about this," said Ryan Filsinger, 23, a Kitchener native who is home on leave from his pre-deployment training out West.

Filsinger is a member of the 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based in Shilo, Man. He will leave for Afghanistan in February.

"It's just great to come home and see the yellow ribbons and know people are thinking of you," he said.

"I always tell people, 'You don't have to support the mission but support the guys who are leaving their families behind to serve the country.' "

Filsinger's father, Paul, is a member of Families of Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan, the local group that asked that decals and magnets be allowed on municipal vehicles.

The ribbons have sparked controversy locally and nationwide, with opponents arguing they imply support for the military mission in Afghanistan.

The family group has maintained the ribbons are a symbol of Canadians supporting Canadians serving abroad as well as their families at home and aren't politically motivated.

A number of the group's members were present yesterday as Paul Filsinger presented the fire department with several magnets and thanked the city and emergency services for their support.

"It really does mean a lot to the families," he said. "This is just another tangible way for the city to show their support."

Two members of the Kitchener Fire Department serve in the reserves -- one returned from Afghanistan earlier this year and another is set to start his tour in two weeks.

"It touches very close to the Kitchener Fire Department," Beckett said. "This is just a small token of what we can do to say thanks and safe return."

Tom Ruggle, Kitchener's chief fire prevention officer, is a reservist with the Lorne Scots and one of nearly 2,500 soldiers who will be deployed in coming weeks.

Ruggle is on military leave but returned to the fire station dressed in his sand-coloured fatigues to watch the ribbon ceremony.

The reserves are rooted in the community, he said, so it's nice to see community recognition of their efforts.

"It's nice to know when you leave, when you're over there and when you come back home, you've got something to come back to," he said.

More than 30 members of the Waterloo Region-based reserve units -- the Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada and the 48 Field Engineer Squadron -- are preparing for a tour in Afghanistan in 2008.

Last week, Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge councils agreed to allow the yellow ribbons on all their vehicles. The region agreed to allow the ribbons on its ambulances.

The municipalities are waiting for the rest of the ribbons to arrive and they'll likely start showing up on vehicles next week.

The Kitchener Fire Department hopes to have its stickers in place by the beginning of the week, Beckett said.

Waterloo regional police have designed a yellow ribbon pin, which officers can wear on their uniforms to show support for the troops.

mdalton@therecord.com


----------



## 3rd Herd (19 Jul 2007)

Mods feel free to move  ;D

Toronto mayor David Miller was roundly mocked nationwide for daring to suggest that stickers emblazoned with the message "Support our Troops" didn't belong on city-owned EMS and fire department vehicles. The move to have them removed was critiqued as politically tone-deaf, needlessly confrontational and a symbol of all that was wrong with "centre-of-the-world" Toronto. 

So what does it mean when Calgary's mayor takes the same position? From the Calgary Sun:


Mayor David Bronconnier fears the decals will open divisions over the Afghan war.

Bronconnier said using a taxpayer-funded canvas for the yellow troop-supporting stickers would antagonize those who feel the message sanctions a war they oppose.

"I don't believe this council should be involved in politicizing a decision that wasn't theirs," said the mayor...................

"The debate deteriorates to whether Canada should have a role to play in Afghanistan."
http://communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/posted/archive/2007/07/19/support-our-troops-decal-debacle-alberta-edition.aspx

Councillors disagree over troop-support stickers
CP

July 18, 2007

Calgary -- Calgary's mayor says there are better ways to support Canada's troops than to adorn city vehicles with stickers that say "Support our troops." Ric McIver, a city alderman, wants Calgary to follow Toronto's lead and allow city-owned vehicles to display the decals.......................................http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070718.NATS18-2/TPStory/National


Wed, July 18, 2007

Sticker proponents urge troop support
UPDATED: 2007-07-18 17:17:36 MST
By BILL KAUFMANN, SUN MEDIA 
Proponents of slapping Support the Troops decals on city vehicles say they’re backed by a growing groundswell of support..............http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2007/07/18/4349963.html


Must be an election year  ;D


----------



## peaches (20 Jul 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> Bronconnier said using a taxpayer-funded canvas for the yellow troop-supporting stickers would antagonize those who feel the message sanctions a war they oppose.






What about those who support the military, the ones who want us to be successful, don't they get a say.  Why are we always catering to these whiny sniveling wimps in this country????


----------



## freeze_time311 (20 Jul 2007)

All Canadian people should support out troops regardless of the opinion on the war. Those are born and bred Canadian men and women who are serving over there. I understand some people opposing the war, but don't deny the troops support.


----------



## Flip (20 Jul 2007)

Personally, I think if people had the facts, very few would not support the mission.

I view any individual I meet who does not support the mission as someone
who simply hasn't been informed of the facts.( Usually holds up )

Calgary's mayor can cram it , as far as I'm concerned.
Why should anyone have to defer to the ignorant?


----------



## 3rd Herd (20 Jul 2007)

Flip said:
			
		

> Personally, I think if people had the facts, very few would not support the mission.
> 
> I view any individual I meet who does not support the mission as someone
> who simply hasn't been informed of the facts.( Usually holds up )
> ...



Thanks Flip,
I was waitting for someone to mention this. Okay folks it is a election year and a certain alderman needs to get his name in the paper that is it. The Mayor has several initiatives on the go regarding the support the troops issue. How do I know, because on Friday at a fundraiser he was there with NO Press. Several of us got some quality dialogue with him, he even did an impromptu photo shoot that saw about two hundred more dollars suddenly be raised. So any of you in the Calgary are units want to lend the Mayor's office a hand in coordinating PM me and I will give you the contact name and information. As for the ribbons on the vehicles there their bought by the guys and gals who served, or have family in for example.


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## Sassy (20 Jul 2007)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> I wonder how many of them would become collaborators?



Well the radical Islamists and the Socialist in Canada share the same idiology, no seperation of state and it's people.  They are very similar in ethos and idiology, both need to be told how to live and exist. Hitler started out as a socialist, I believe that's the original name of his party and Hitler admired and had some of his troops trained by the Arabs.  Sadly these same people who state we deserve to be attacked would be crawling over the elderly and children in the food and bread lines.


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## old medic (23 Jul 2007)

Bronco's firing blanks in the battle over whether city vehicles should don soldier support decals

By RICK BELL
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Bell_Rick/2007/07/19/4351443.html



> Perhaps we're in a parallel universe or a black hole where a mysterious logic operates.
> 
> But what is the mayor of this city thinking?
> 
> ...


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## Remius (24 Jul 2007)

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/2007/07/24/4363596-sun.html

At least Toronto reversed their decision.


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## mudrecceman (27 Jul 2007)

Personally I would be willing to kick this schmoo in the nuts.

But thats just me.  Support the troops...they maintain the freedom you enjoy.


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## Disenchantedsailor (27 Jul 2007)

and on goes the saga Calgary style, I happened to be burning some lve in my good o'l hometown during this debate and this comes from yesterdays Calgary Sun


Ribbons bought for cops
Woman buys 450 magnets	   
By SHAWN LOGAN, SUN MEDIA
Angered over the city's stance against putting yellow ribbon decals on the civic fleet, a Calgary woman has purchased 450 magnetic decorations to adorn police vehicles. 
Self-proclaimed military brat Marilyn Ermter, 68, said after hearing the Calgary Police Association (CPA) planned to provide yellow ribbon car magnets to any of its members who decided to defy the city edict, she decided to show support her own way. 
"Nobody's for a war. What this program is about is individuals who are over there fighting for us," said Ermter, who has volunteered with city cops since 1988 and whose father, uncle and brother all served in the Canadian Forces. 
"If we can put on signs for the Calgary Flames, why can't we do it for those men and women who are looking after our country?" 
The retiree spent yesterday at the Military Family Resource Centre (MFRC), rounding up 450 of the $5 magnets she will turn over to the CPA next Tuesday, the same day it plans on holding a "yellow ribbon checkstop" at its downtown headquarters. 
CPA president Al Koenig said he's more than happy to accept the donation. 
"She phoned me out of the blue and you could have knocked me over with a feather," he said. 
"I told her we have 450 vehicles and she said she'd buy all of them -- she thinks it's a great cause." 
Ermter will deliver the magnets to the association's office at 428 6 Ave. S.E. the day of the checkstop, which will tag any vehicle, whether it's a squad car or civilian vehicle, with decals or magnets. 
Koenig said police brass have shown no indication whether they will reprimand cops who put the ribbons on their vehicles and it will be up to individual members whether they don the symbol and risk disciplinary action. 
Meanwhile, to help give further aid to troops abroad, city police will be able to donate money earned from overtime and court appearances to the Military Family Resource Centre as part of an initiative between the Calgary Police Service and CPA. 
Ermter said she has no problem getting involved with the campaign and remains shocked the city opted not to deck out city vehicles with 5,000 donated decals, choosing to sell the yellow ribbons at city facilities to raise funds. 
"When you look at buses, they're plastered inside and out with signs, so I don't know why one little ribbon is a big deal," she said. 
"It's just a way to say we support the guys and women who are putting their lives on the line for us." 


Seems some just don't feel Bronco's fear of reprisal, however he will allow anti-abortion, pro-abortion, anti drug, pro needle exchange ads to be run on the inside of busses, perhaps because the city isn't being paid to put the magnets on is the reason he doesn't agree (and before the attacks begin His worship is a Relative of mine (in an inlaw removed kinda way)


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## Disenchantedsailor (31 Jul 2007)

July 31, 2007 
Cops support troops today	   
By SHAWN LOGAN, SUN MEDIA
Drivers in the downtown core will line up today to purposely get pulled over by the cops. 
While the city won't be slapping any Support Our Troops decals on its civic fleet, the Calgary Police Association (CPA) will hold a "yellow ribbon checkstop" at its downtown headquarters in hopes of raising much-needed funds for military families and showing support for Canadian troops. 
CPA president Al Koenig said he expects to hand out hundreds of the magnetic decorations, including a donation of 450 that have been set aside for officers who wish to place them on their police vehicles. 
"It allows everybody to participate and show support in a tangible way," he said. 
The drive-thru -- which runs from 7 a.m. until the decals are all gone -- is a partnership between the CPA and the Military Family Resource Centre. 
The idea was put forward after council last week decided against putting the ribbons on city vehicles -- a move that didn't sit well with some city employees. 
Two military wives, who both have husbands serving in Afghanistan, will be on hand, including Devan Kublik, whose husband Capt. Kyle Clapperton serves with the Calgary Highlanders and is also a physical trainer with the Calgary Police. 
"These are people he knows so it's a very emotional thing," she said, noting Clapperton is due home in a month after serving abroad since February. 
"Those yellow ribbons really do mean a lot and I'm hoping to see a lot of people interested." 
The $5 magnets will be available to anyone who drives by the CPA's office at 428 6 Ave. S.E. 
Colleen Rowe, director of the MFRC, said she hopes Calgarians will line up to show support for the troops. 
"We're thrilled -- this is a great opportunity for people in the downtown to swing by and show their support," she said. "It's really been inspiring to see the support of community members." 
Since the controversy erupted, her office has been overwhelmed with requests for the patriotic decorations. 
She said 1,100 of the magnetic ribbons were delivered last Tuesday and sold out by Friday while stickers are also a hot item. 

Link to Article <http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2007/07/31/pf-4381749.html>


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## Disenchantedsailor (1 Aug 2007)

and the latest from Cowtown

July 31, 2007 

Police association hands out 3,700 troop ribbons at checkstop 
By SHAWN LOGAN, SUN MEDIA

Legions of patriotic Calgarians showed their true colours today, lining up to decorate their vehicles with yellow ribbons and donate much-needed funds to military families. 

Thousands of commuters decided to show their support for Canadian troops, pulling into the “yellow ribbon checkstop” at the Calgary Police Association (CPA) headquarters at 428 6 Ave. S.E. to have their cars, trucks and SUVs adorned with decals and magnets that a week earlier were denied a place on city vehicles. 

Ian Macdonald, a retired city cop who pulled in to grab a magnet for his truck and give a donation to the Military Family Resource Centre (MFRC), said he was unimpressed with council’s decision but will happily show off the ribbon on his vehicle. 

“I’m here because city council didn’t see fit to show too much support for the troops and they keep us free,” he said. 

“If (the soldiers) don’t see it, their families will see and they’ll know we’re supporting them.” 

In addition to civilians, dozens of police cruisers, buses and city vehicles, rolled through the checkstop to grab magnets and decals in defiance of the council decision, which opted against using the ribbons but choosing instead to sell them in city facilities and donate the proceeds to the MFRC. 

Police Sgt. Dean Vegso drove through to have a ribbon placed on the trunk of his squad car but wouldn’t say whether he intends to keep displaying it. 

“We’ll put it on today and see what happens,” he said. 

Calgary Police Service spokesman Kevin Brookwell said council’s policy will be followed but transgressors will not be aggressively pursued and decals will be removed when they’re returned to the district offices. 

Colleen Rowe, executive director of the Military Family Resource Centre, was thrilled with the turnout and the wave of support shown through the honking of horns, shouts of encouragement and hefty donations. 

“It’s a powerful thing and it really hits home,” she said, while waving a large yellow ribbon and waving passing cars into the checkstop along 4 St. S.E. 

“It’s really moving to see the citizens get behind this — soldiers are always there for us so it’s nice to be their for them.” 

By the end of the day, about 3,700 ribbons had been given out with the average donation of $5 apiece, with all the proceeds going to the MFRC. 

Julie Gow, who helped hand out the ribbons and whose husband is due to deploy to Afghanistan later this month, said she was overwhelmed by the response. 

“I’m actually really amazed — I didn’t realize people were so much in support,” she said. 

“People seem to understand that it’s not just about the soldiers themselves but their families as well.”

 Article link - - http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2007/07/31/pf-4383293.html


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## Donut (11 Aug 2007)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070811.BCRIBBON11/TPStory/National

With far less controversy then I would have expected (but watch for it!) the Vancouver Police Chief, Jamie Graham, has decided that all marked VPD vehicles will bear a MFRC-donated Yellow Ribbon.

He points out that 4 VPD members have served or are working up to serve with TFA.  39CBG Commander is a serving VPD Cpl, and about 30 plus members of the VPD are also 39 CBG members.

I'm sure a shit-storm will erupt shortly, but CUPE is too busy on the picket lines to take this one on right now.

I'll also add that Mayor Sam Sullivan was very supportive of the 12 Fd Amb members from 1-08 when we met him at the unit's Freedom of the City parade in May, thanking each of us personally and insisting on several photographs with us.

Thanks VPD; this city's a little short on support for us.


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## medaid (12 Aug 2007)

Go VPD. It's a nice initiative, and hopefully the other cities will follow suit here in the lower mainland. The RCMPs can do with some magnets on their vehicles.


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## ms (12 Aug 2007)

For the past few weeks patrol officers have been wearing the yellow 'support our troops' pins on their uniforms. Now with the official word from the Chief, all patrol cars have the decals as well.


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## proudnurse (12 Aug 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Go VPD. It's a nice initiative, and hopefully the other cities will follow suit here in the lower mainland. The RCMPs can do with some magnets on their vehicles.



+1 

Here is another thread to share with some articles included... on how some other cities have followed suit on the Support Ribbons here in Ontario, where I live. So far since reading the articles, I have seen a couple. One on an Ambulance in Waterloo Region here and one on a Public Works truck. 

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63942/post-591340.html#msg591340

~Rebecca


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## medaid (15 Aug 2007)

Well... I saw them the other day, and today. They all have small yellow ribbon decals on the back of marked PCs. I even pulled up to one of them and yelled out "Thanks for supporting the troops!", it was a 2 member unit, and one laughed, and the other one looked at my car, found my decal, and smiled also.

It's nice... it really was nice. Hey, PMT, how bout starting an initiative to get them on the back of BCAS Ambs?


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## Donut (15 Aug 2007)

I've spoken to "our guy" in the union, no results as yet.

Keep in mind we're CUPE....those asshats aren't exactly supportive, even if the local and the service are.  

I think I'll just send them to stations I've worked in and see what the U/C has to say.


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## medaid (15 Aug 2007)

damnations... that's too bad. Ya, hopefully "our guy" can put more weight on it....


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## RangerRay (15 Aug 2007)

Now we just have to get the Mounties onside!  The local Conservation Officers all have the magnets on their trucks...


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## medaid (15 Aug 2007)

Indeed, considering how many of them are ex.CF ?


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## gate_guard (16 Aug 2007)

I took the next day off after hearing my buddy Colin was one of the six killed on July 4, that day I received a phone call from Chief Graham expressing his condolences to myself, Colins family, and the Westies and stated that he was offering the use of the motorcycle drill team, pipe band, and ceremonial unit for the funeral if so desired by the family (the bike squad ended up escorting the funeral convoy). I can't say enough about Chief Graham's support for the troops, not only VPD members who are reservists, but the Forces in general. I had been wearing a support pin on my uniform ever since Colin and other good friends deployed on TF 1-06 and soon after Colin was killed, the Inspector in charge of the section I'm with ordered support pins for the entire section, those are likely the members you've seen wearing the pin.


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## medaid (16 Aug 2007)

gate_guard,

    you can add another soldier to the list of people who've appreciated the gesture by Chief Graham. Also, to the members of your section. Stay safe out there brother.


MT.


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## cdonnelly (16 Aug 2007)

The support is awesome...without the initiative of the Chief, we would be SOL for going on the TF. Well done and thanks to the fellow PC's for wearing ribbons.


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## RangerRay (16 Aug 2007)

Just curious...

Where on the uniform do the VPD constables wear their ribbon pins?


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## P-PLATOON (16 Aug 2007)

I saw one today on the back of a marked crusier in Hamilton, Ontario, and was very happy to see it!


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## I_am_John_Galt (16 Aug 2007)

P-PLATOON said:
			
		

> I saw one today on the back of a marked crusier in Hamilton, Ontario, and was very happy to see it!



How did a VPD cruiser get all the way to Hamilton?


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## P-PLATOON (16 Aug 2007)

I_am_John_Galt said:
			
		

> How did a VPD cruiser get all the way to Hamilton?



GPS must have been on the fritz!! :  no really, though, I got caught up in my excitment of seeing the Hamilton Police Department having support our troop ribbons (first one I have seen) that I forgot the thread was about the VPD and not ribbons on police crusiers in general.


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## 3rd Herd (17 Aug 2007)

Not everyone a fan.
Support "Nuclear Weapon-Free Vancouver", not our troops
by Darren Atwater 
http://onlymagazine.ca/City/1281/support-nuclear-weapon-free-vancouver-not-our-troops


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## medaid (17 Aug 2007)

Well...since Darren Atwater likes to create magnets that bastardize our support for our fellow soldiers... i created one too!


Make your <a href="http://www.supportourribbons.com/">custom magnet</a> at <a href="http://www.supportourribbons.com/m/129818">SupportOurRibbons.com</a>
<a href="http://www.supportourribbons.com/m/129818"><img src="http://www.supportourribbons.com/e/129818.jpg" alt="Custom Ribbon Magnet: SUPPORT MedTech's Fight Against *** Hat Civis..."></a>


and I like mine better!


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## Donut (17 Aug 2007)

Usual disclaimer

Dead soldier's mom outraged

Wonders why city permits Flames stickers on vehicles but bans troop-support decals

By TARINA WHITE -- Sun Media

The Calgary Sun


The mother of a fallen Calgary soldier is outraged city garbage trucks are emblazoned with stickers supporting a hockey team but can't show the same pride for local troops. 

Maureen Eykelenboom, whose 23-year-old son Cpl. Andrew Eykelenboom was killed last August by a suicide bomber in Afghanistan, said she was disgusted to see a garbage truck yesterday sporting a Calgary Flames logo, in light of this week's forced removal of yellow Support Our Troops ribbon decals from a dozen waste trucks. 

"What is with our society that we can support a sports team but we cannot support our young men and women who are willing to risk their lives for our freedom?" she asked. "It was one more kick in the gut." 

Last month, council shot down a motion from Ald. Ric McIver to put troop decals on the entire civic fleet. 

In the absence of new direction from council, the existing policy banning third-party decals continues, said city spokeswoman Astrid Deslandes. 

That means no third-party signage is permitted on city vehicles -- aside from sponsorship agreements -- and any offending material is removed during maintenance. 

On Tuesday, a dozen garbage trucks bearing the troop decals were ordered into maintenance bays to pull the decorations. 

A city sanitation worker who didn't want his name printed for fear of reprisal said he's fuming his boss allows Calgary Flames stickers on garbage trucks but won't permit the troop decals. 

"Where is the legality that you can put a Flames sticker on but not a yellow ribbon?" the city employee said yesterday. "What's the difference?" 

Eykelenboom said banning troop decals is insulting. 

"It does not speak well of those who were elected into politics in Calgary," she said. 

"I would challenge them to ask a parent of a fallen soldier to come and speak to them." 

McIver plans to bring the issue back to council Sept. 10. 

Decals will be offered for sale at city hall and the city's website starting Monday.


Link:  http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2007/08/17/4425527-sun.html


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## ms (18 Aug 2007)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> Just curious...
> 
> Where on the uniform do the VPD constables wear their ribbon pins?



They are being worn on the left pocket flap. Centered between the pocket button and the edge of the flap closest to the midline of the body. I hope that makes sense...


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## Kev T (21 Aug 2007)

It's always nice to see support for the troops back in your hometown especially if it's a place that's not normally well known to be supportive. Thank you.


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## RangerRay (21 Aug 2007)

PMT 9D said:
			
		

> They are being worn on the left pocket flap. Centered between the pocket button and the edge of the flap closest to the midline of the body. I hope that makes sense...



Yes it does, thanks!


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## Disenchantedsailor (21 Aug 2007)

and another Alberta town weighs in.

Airdrie's fleet to don ribbons 
By SHAWN LOGAN, SUN MEDIA

Airdrie will add yellow ribbon decals to its vehicle fleet following a unanimous council vote yesterday, a month after Calgary's aldermen shot down the controversial plan. 

There was little debate before the 7-0 vote, which will pave the way for the city's 73 vehicles to be affixed with the troop support stickers, something Mayor Linda Bruce said is a good way to show Canadian soldiers and their families that their sacrifice is appreciated. 

"Sometimes even a small gesture can be a meaningful gesture," she said yesterday. 

"Essentially our military are peacekeepers and when we acknowledge our general role in the world, to show support for the troops isn't an issue." 

Calgary's council decided not to adorn its vehicles with the patriotic decorations following a fiery debate last month, opting instead to sell the stickers at city facilities and hand the money over to the Military Family Resource Centre. 

Blake Richards, an Airdrie resident and candidate for the federal Conservative nomination in the Wild Rose riding, brought the matter to council and has volunteered to donate all the decals the city needs. 

Airdrie is just the latest community to adopt the plan along with Edmonton, Brooks, Medicine Hat and even the provincial government. 

The debate is expected to heat up again Sept. 10 when Ald. Ric McIver, who made the original push for the stickers, attempts to bring the matter back for council to reconsider. 


 http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2007/08/21/pf-4434108.html


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## geo (21 Aug 2007)

Great move by the city councillors of Airdrie AB

CHIMO!


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## mudrecceman (21 Aug 2007)

+1.  Hopefully Calgary will reverse their "position" given the opportunity.


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## navymich (23 Aug 2007)

Two more soldiers have been killed and the city still refuses to place support decals on its cars - What gives?
By JOE WARMINGTON

Upset the city has not yet placed Support Our Troops decals on police cars, the Toronto Police Association has gone ahead and purchased the ribbons and sent them along with a stern letter of protest to the Police Services Board chair, the Sun has learned.

With two more deaths in Afghanistan yesterday, 15 soldiers have died since the day Toronto city council passed a resolution calling for support decals to be placed on all emergency vehicles, including police cars.

And yet the yellow ribbons are still not on the police cars. What gives? That's what a livid police union boss Dave Wilson would like to know. 

In a letter to Police Services Board Chairman Alok Mukherjee, obtained by the Sun through sources, Wilson has demanded immediate action.

"As you know, we have made repeated attempts to address this important initiative with you and Chief (Bill) Blair and for reasons unknown to us, our efforts to work with you on this meaningful project have so far been ignored," wrote Wilson. "Our members have expressed concern that they are being denied an opportunity to show respect and appreciation to the men and women who also risk their lives to help protect others."

Many police officers, on duty and off, will be at a giant Red Friday rally at the CNE at 2 p.m. tomorrow to show that support. But Wilson wants city council to honour what it said it would do by placing those decals on the cars immediately.

On June 20, reacting to pressure from the public who were outraged over a decision to remove support decals from fire trucks and ambulances, the council ended up unanimously supporting the idea and also included they be added to the police vehicles.

It has been caught up in bureaucracy ever since. Wilson claims he has not even been able to get a dialogue going.

"It is most unfortunate that to date, the Police Services Board and the Chief have not seen fit to work with us on this worthy project," he wrote. "Four weeks have now passed since our last correspondence and still we have received no response."

A spokesman for Mukherjee said "we did receive the letter" but that the chairman is out of town and would not be able to address it until Monday. A call was put in to Blair and his spokesman, Const. Wendy Drummond, said the service's position is that "we support the forces in many other ways but it will not be on the vehicles."

It's strange since it is very clear in the council's resolution that it would include the vehicles. It is also strange since few have been more supportive of the troops than Blair. In fact when we organized the pro-troops rally last September both Blair and Wilson were the reason it ever happened. Both offered manpower and assistance and both gave passionate speeches from the podium.

Even Mayor David Miller, who is also out of town this week, has been supportive of the pro-troops initiative and spoke at that same rally.

So if Blair is not behind blocking this and neither is Miller, who is?

Could it be the power of vote abstainers led by councillors Pam McConnell, Janet Davis, Gord Perks and Adam Giambrone who seem to think a ribbon promotes a political or pro-war message?

Surely they don't have the kind of power to overrule the unanimously passed resolution, the mayor and the police chief? Something smells here. It's awful. The families of the war dead must be sick to their stomachs.

Wilson was tired of waiting and just went ahead and ordered the decals. He sent them in a box to Mukherjee yesterday. "Enclosed you will find Support Our Troops decals purchased by the Toronto Police Association for the purpose of displaying them in marked police vehicles as per City Council's resolution in June 2007," he wrote. "We have purchased enough decals to place on each marked Toronto police vehicle and would be pleased to forward additional decals to you should they be required. Our hope is by supplying you with these decals you will reassess your position and put an end to any further delay."

Wilson would love it if the decals could be placed in the windows of the squad cars for tomorrow's pro-troops rally at the CNE. "It is our hope that since the decals are now available for distribution, you will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that our members are able to proudly demonstrate their support for the men and women serving abroad," he wrote.

You think this embattled city council, which has had a bad summer, could get this one right.

Here's some advice from one voter. Just put the yellow decals on the police cars as you decided to do in your resolution.

And please stop embarrassing us.


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## captaincarver (25 Aug 2007)

The Toronto Police Service still has not approved the placing of the "Support Our Troops"decals on their cruisers. This after the famous flip flop in their favour by Mayor David Miller and an unanimous vote by city council. It seems the problem is the [civilian] Police Board chaired by a Miller left wing lackey Pam OConnell and that other Miller lackey Chief Bill Blair. Miller knew he could make a show of supporting the troops while having his lackeys on the Police Board and minions in the police top brass block this patriotic campaign.
It's time for another petition to drive home the message that the troops must be supported to the spineless Toronto mayor and his shifty socialist council and Police Board.


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## canadianblue (25 Aug 2007)

I'd sign the petition, but is it going to be inundated with the same rhetoric as the above post. To be honest I have yet to see a police cruiser out west with a ribbon on the vehicle, and I'm unsure of whether or not they have them on fire/ems vehicles as well. But I'd assume that adding any decal to a police vehicle would need to be approved first by the proper authorities. Even with military vehicles, I'd assume if a member wanted to add a decal it would first have to go up the chain and be approved by those at a higher position. 

As well I believe it was a city bureaucrat not mayor Miller who wanted them removed. City council squashed that decision when it made headlines.


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## Fishbone Jones (25 Aug 2007)

captaincarver said:
			
		

> The Toronto Police Service still has not approved the placing of the "Support Our Troops"decals on their cruisers. This after the famous flip flop in their favour by Mayor David Miller and an unanimous vote by city council. It seems the problem is the [civilian] Police Board chaired by a Miller left wing lackey Pam OConnell and that other Miller lackey Chief Bill Blair. Miller knew he could make a show of supporting the troops while having his lackeys on the Police Board and minions in the police top brass block this patriotic campaign.
> It's time for another petition to drive home the message that the troops must be supported to the spineless Toronto mayor and his shifty socialist council and Police Board.



So, load up an online petition and send us the link.


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## Roy Harding (25 Aug 2007)

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> ... But I'd assume that adding any decal to a police vehicle would need to be approved first by the proper authorities. Even with military vehicles, I'd assume if a member wanted to add a decal it would first have to go up the chain and be approved by those at a higher position.
> ...



EXACTLY.  

I've stayed out of this thread up to now, mostly because I don't feel strongly enough about the issue to weigh in on either side.  Sigs Guy has just hit the nail on the head - Police Officers, Firefighters, Soldiers, civilian government employees, etcetera, DON'T GET TO DECIDE, on an individual basis, what stickers are put on their vehicles.  The POLITICAL body which employs those folks gets to make that decision - and THAT makes the question political.


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## canadianblue (25 Aug 2007)

Well when I go into town and if I see a police cruiser, EMS, etc. not having a ribbon I really don't mind because I already see tons of them on civilian vehicles. I think the issue has been blown a little bit out of proportion and their are more pressing concerns. Instead of writing alot of articles and letters dealing with ribbons on government vehicles perhaps they should instead write more articles highlighting the progress that has been made in Afghanistan, if a reporter or any person wants to support the mission that's the best way to do it. 

While it is a good gesture, it's just that a gesture. Their are a ton of ribbon campaigns out there supporting good causes, but what good is it if people in general are ignorant about the cause. What we need now is to see that the mission can obtain the overall goals set about, and see it done with the support of the nation once they know all of the information about what we are doing over there.


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## captaincarver (26 Aug 2007)

Re post #135

I am sorry you don't appreciate my "rhetoric" however what is not rhetorical is that Mayor Miller publicly spoke against the application of decals on the police service cars and city hall was deluged with emails and calls after which a quick decision was made at council to approve. Secondly  All other EMS vehicles have applied the decals. Thirdly the police union bought the decals after council approval and has delivered same to city hall. Miller is hiding in the tall grass while Chief Blair and McConnell block this troop support effort.
By the way it is also not retorical that a "wear red" campaign was held at the CNE Friday past attended by McKay and Hillier. No official attendance from city hall was seen.


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## canadianblue (26 Aug 2007)

Well first of all what would be the point to even blocking this campaign? I'd hope he would have better things to do then block the addition of ribbon's being added on police vehicles. Second, we still don't have all of the information yet, if you could get us an article to back up and articulate your claims by way of a newspaper article or another source. I don't remember hearing Miller speak against the decals, from what I read it was an overzealous city bureaucrat whose decision was later overturned by city council. 

From what I understand the one city which doesn't allow the ribbon's on the vehicles is Calgary due to a vote against it by their city council. However if people feel this strongly about it then simply start up a petition or a rally. But then again I haven't been clawing over any article I could read on the issue.


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## GAP (19 Sep 2007)

Give peace a chance, Giambrone says  
TTC to vote on whether drivers can wear "peace" pins or yellow ribbons at work 
September 18, 2007 03:54 PM DAVID NICKLE 
Article Link

TTC riders will soon know where their bus driver stands on Canadian troops in Afghanistan, if commission chair Adam Giambrone gets his way at Wednesday's meeting.
Commissioners will be dealing with a report recommending that transit operators be permitted to wear yellow ribbon "Support Our Troops" pins. The pins were requested by the Amalgamated Transit Union Local 113 so that operators could show support for Canadian troops deployed in Afghanistan, in the same way that firefighters and police in Toronto are able to.

The pins are a step back from decals affixed to the vehicles of those services. 

However, Giambrone (Ward 18, Davenport) wants to go a step further, and give TTC staff the option of also wearing a "peace" pin, likely sporting the popular peace sign that originated as a badge for the British Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and later appropriated by the American anti-war movement in the 1960s.

"It speaks to issues of peace and is recognized around the world," Giambrone said. 

"I think there are very few people who don't support peace and there are very few people who don't support the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. The ribbon is not a sign of support for the military missions in Afghanistan or Iraq."
More on link


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## a_majoor (19 Sep 2007)

London ON is now embroiled. An interesting take on the argument about the issue being "political" from the London Fog:

http://thelondonfog.blogspot.com/2007/09/representing-community-one-piece-at.html



> Representing the community, one piece at a time
> 
> Post from Monday, September 17 updated below…
> 
> ...


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## the 48th regulator (28 Sep 2007)

Here we goo again...


Article link/Kitchener Waterloo Record: http://www.therecord.com/home_page_local_story/home_page_local_story_1102227.html

Article shared in accordance with the fairdealings. 


N.B. group behind anti-yellow ribbon campaign

Updated Fri. Sep. 28 2007 10:26 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Fredericton's mayor is calling a peace coalition misguided as the group pressures local businesses to stop displaying yellow decals calling for support of Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

Mayor Brad Woodside says the group is focusing its criticism on local proprietors when it should be lobbying the government.

"When you ask people to take down the yellow ribbon that says support our troops, I think we're really going after the wrong people," Woodside told CTV Atlantic.

"If you have a problem with what the military is doing, then go after the politicians."

Tracey Glynn is a member of the Fredericton Peace Coalition and says that wearing a "Support Our Troops" yellow ribbon trumpets positive support for the war.

"I think by putting the yellow ribbon on or wearing the red shirt, you're being a cheerleader for the war," Glynn said. 

Glynn says members of the coalition have threatened to withdraw support of local businesses if they continue to display the decals. The group's intention is to reignite the debate over the war in Afghanistan.

"We'll be launching a take down your ribbon campaign in October, just before the sixth anniversary of the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan," Glynn told CTV Atlantic.

Cathy Delong is responsible for the visible sea of yellow around Fredericton. After being inspired by the support of another New Brunswick town, Delong went door to door asking residents and business owners to display their support for Canadian troops.

"If (the coalition) doesn't want to support the troops and their families, leave the people alone who want to do it," Delong said.

The decision to show support for the Canadian Armed Forces with the decals has not been without controversy in other parts of the country. 

In August, Ottawa police began displaying the yellow ribbons on their cruisers causing some civic politicians to vocally oppose the plan.

While in Vancouver police allow the decals on their patrol cars, in Calgary, police have been prohibited from displaying the decals by the city. 


In June, a similar backlash to the yellow ribbons occurred in Toronto when emergency personnel were ordered to take down decals on city-owned EMS, ambulance or fire vehicles.

City council voted unanimously on a motion to indefinitely extend the use of decals after concerned veterans voiced their complaints to city hall.

Canadian troops are in Afghanistan as part of NATO's International Security Assistance Force. Seventy-one Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died since the combat mission began in 2002.


With a report from CTV Atlantic's Erin O'Hallahan


Tracey Glynn seems to like talking to the media, quite a bit when she can.  It is a shame, she can not seperate her political views, from the views of support others have for the troops.

dileas

tess


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## armyvern (28 Sep 2007)

Let the idiot boycott the stores ...

It won't mean much to those business' who do support their troops in that other



> New Brunswick town



referred to in the article. That other town just happens to be the Home of the Army, a mere 14 ks up the road ...

26 crackpots who don't have a clue?? Or thousands of soldiers and Land Force students situated there?? D'uh ...

I wonder if the crackpots even realize that Oromocto & Freddy have been "supporting their soldiers" for years & years, well before Sept 11th 2001 (and our 'occupation of Afghanistan  : ) ...

Just run a search right on this very site regarding "Military discounts" ... the list is huge for those Fredericton NB business' looking after their troops, and it has always been that way. 

Let her boycott them ... bet that'll attract lots more business for them from relish suits than she'll manage to take away from them... 

What another waste of O2.


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## 211RadOp (28 Sep 2007)

I googled her name, and evidently she tried to get people to boycott the census because Lockheed-Martin had been contracted to do the census.



> "Boycotting the census is about refusing to line the pockets of a company that actively seeks out more war to sell its weapons of mass destruction, nuclear arms, depleted uranium and weapons banned in Canada like land mines," says Tracey Glynn, a peace activist based in Fredericton, New Brunswick.



From the Dominion paper http://www.dominionpaper.ca/features/2006/05/11/it_doesnt_.html


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## armyvern (28 Sep 2007)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> I googled her name, and evidently she tried to get people to boycott the census because Lockheed-Martin had been contracted to do the census.
> 
> From the Dominion paper http://www.dominionpaper.ca/features/2006/05/11/it_doesnt_.html



Like I said, just another crackpot.

Unfortunately this one seems to be given too much airtime and ample opportunity to

senselessly spout her bullshit, thus contributing to the depletion of our essential ozone layer ...

and thieving oxygen from the people of the world who do have half a clue. Call out Greenpeace to protest her ...


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## vonGarvin (28 Sep 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070928/yellow_support_070928/20070928?hub=TopStories

Fredericton's mayor is calling a peace coalition misguided as the group pressures local businesses to stop displaying yellow decals calling for support of Canadian troops in Afghanistan.
---------------
"When you ask people to take down the yellow ribbon that says support our troops, I think we're really going after the wrong people," Woodside told CTV Atlantic.
Tracey Glynn is a member of the Fredericton Peace Coalition and says that wearing a "Support Our Troops" yellow ribbon trumpets positive support for the war.
"I think by putting the yellow ribbon on or wearing the red shirt, you're being a cheerleader for the war," Glynn said. 
*Glynn says members of the coalition have threatened to withdraw support of local businesses if they continue to display the decals.* The group's intention is to reignite the debate over the war in Afghanistan.

Just my comment, but since there are over 5000 people at the CTC in Gagetown, who do a majority of their business in Freddy, I don't think that many businesses would feel any pinch.  Except maybe for the Green-Tea Hash House and Emporium  :


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## a_majoor (28 Sep 2007)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Just my comment, but since there are over 5000 people at the CTC in Gagetown, who do a majority of their business in Freddy, I don't think that many businesses would feel any pinch.  Except maybe for the Green-Tea Hash House and Emporium  :



I hear they are missing you already  >


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## vonGarvin (28 Sep 2007)

Actually, they just opened a franchise here in Pet  ;D


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## teddybear (28 Sep 2007)

I wish these groups would just mind their own businesses. If they chose to NOT support the troops, then that is their choice. BUT don't pressure others to stop visibly supporting them because you have a problem with the mission in Afghanistan.    :threat:

And to think that my husband died for their right to spout their bulls**t.


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## Munxcub (28 Sep 2007)

It's surprising that the "war mongers" aren't more aggressive in getting non-supporters to put ribbons up...  :


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## Danjanou (28 Sep 2007)

teddybear said:
			
		

> And to think that my husband died for their right to spout their bulls**t.



No Teddybear he died to ensure that all of us continue to have the right to live in free and overall decent society and speak our minds without fear of reprisal. 

Unfortunately that sometimes includes those misguided and naïve persons noted here.


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## teddybear (28 Sep 2007)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> No Teddybear he died to ensure that all of us continue to have the right to live in free and overall decent society and speak our minds without fear of reprisal.
> 
> Unfortunately that sometimes includes those misguided and naïve persons noted here.



That I agree with. However, they don't need to pressure those that do support the troops. What they need to do is inform themselves on what our troops are actually accomplishing in that country. Then, if they still disagree with the mission, pressure the government to end it in Feb 09.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (28 Sep 2007)

These are the same bunch who raised heck when they spotted soldiers on the trail who were marching with weapons back in 2002 or 03 when I was in Gagetown....they were doing their annual fitness test. They felt threatend that soldiers were out in public with weapons....everyone except the press decided to ignore them...we should do the same now....they are a bunch of  :clown:s...they are an insult to your husbands honour Teddybear....the majority of Canadians do not agree with these idiots so pay them no heed.


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## armyvern (28 Sep 2007)

It was '03 ... boy was _that_ an interesting day.


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## Nfld Sapper (28 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> It was '03 ... boy was _that_ an interesting day.



I was in Gagetown but don't seem to remember that


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## Reccesoldier (28 Sep 2007)

Folks, just think of how many times business owners and operators are telling these morons to get stuffed.  I'd say that those who are displaying the ribbon in the first place already know what side their bread is buttered on.


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## armyvern (28 Sep 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> I was in Gagetown but don't seem to remember that



Fall '03 ... Tech Svcs ...

A lovely sunny day too. A great day for a 'lil walk.

Even carried by _The Daily Gleaner_ the next morning.


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## Nfld Sapper (28 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Fall '03 ... Tech Svcs ...
> 
> A lovely sunny day too. A great day for a 'lil walk.
> 
> Even carried by _The Daily Gleaner_ the next morning.



Ah that could explain it, I was probably on my way back to my home unit.


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## armyvern (28 Sep 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> Ah that could explain it, I was probably on my way back to my home unit.



And IIRC, someone here may be able to clarify, the next group who went outside "the wire" of the gates (ie onto the TransCanada trail) on their BFT found themselves being filmed by some friggin' TV station ...


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## Sassy (28 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Let the idiot boycott the stores ...
> 
> It won't mean much to those business' who do support their troops in that other
> 
> ...



LOL good post, how about  every business they boycott the military families give them extra business and an new shiny yellow ribbon.  It's amusing that the yellow bellies object to yellow ribbons and yet that's the color of their skin and ethics.  

I really loathe peaceniks and tree huggers, so I'm not unbiased on this issue.


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## Franko (7 Oct 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/print/CTVNews/20070928/yellow_support_070928/20070928/?hub=TopStories&subhub=PrintStory




> *N.B. group behind anti-yellow ribbon campaign*
> 
> CTV.ca News Staff
> 
> ...




I've just heard about this and their agenda. I always knew that Fredericton had their fair share of wing nuts....what next? An anti-poppy movement?

Regards


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## Teflon (7 Oct 2007)

Such a strange coincidence, Oct just happens to be the month I run my annual "Turn in an unwanted hippie a**-hat Dumpster" campaign! Of course I'm out here in Edmonton but hey,.... maybe I could get the campaign started over there as well,... sounds like they will have some cluttering up the place.


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## armyvern (7 Oct 2007)

Merged


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