# Federal Correctional Officers Want Pepper Spray



## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Jul 2005)

http://www.kingstonthisweek.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=118122&catname=Local+News&classif=News+%2D+Local

KP officers want to carry pepper spray 
Union reacts to latest attack on prison workers 
Stephen Petrick 
Local News - Tuesday, July 19, 2005 @ 08:00 

The Union of Canadian Correctional Officers is calling for better protection of workers after a vicious attack sent two Kingston Penitentiary officers to hospital last week 
One correctional officer needed stitches to the head and face and the other needed both stitches and treatment for a separated shoulder. 

The incident has raised more tension between Correctional Service Canada and union leaders, who have been without a contract for 39 months. 
â Å“This is exactly why we demand that correctional officers be equipped with OC (pepper) spray as part of their uniform,â ? said UCCO President Sylvain Martel.  

â Å“The vast majority of serious violence-related injuries to both correctional officers and inmates could be avoided with this one tool.â ? 
A CSC spokesperson confirmed the attack happened on July 13 when the inmate was being led back to his range after a meeting with a programs officer. 

â Å“This is a serious incident and we will have an investigation to see how an incident like this can be prevented in the future,â ? said Holly Knowles, CSC Ontario region spokesperson. 
She said the injuries to the two officers were non-life threatening and that Kingston Police will lay charges on the inmate, who has since been removed to the Special Handling Unit in Quebec, where problematic prisoners are kept. 
Both CSC and the union believe the attack was unexpected and unprovoked. 

But they agree on little else. 
Martel says incidents like this are common in Canadian prisons and that Kingston Penitentiary sees an average of one or two assaults per month. 
He's been lobbying the government to allow prison workers to carry more safety equipment right on their uniforms, arguing that pepper spray is a useless defence tool if it's kept in a closet. 

However, Knowles says the number of assaults reported in federal prisons in the 2004-05 fiscal year was one, and the previous two years the numbers were zero. 
She explained that guards will soon have stab-proof vests and that more safety equipment, such as pepper spray, is always within a minute's reach at the prison, should a violent clash occur. 
She also said correction workers are trained at how to handle irate inmates. 

Gee, and its any wonder the CSC senoir management is a laughing stock, lies from the top on down......

**Lets see if I can say this with a straight face**   " Ah, yes, even though we have only had one assault in three years we ordered expensive stab-proof vests for all our officers." :
...and I didn't even see her boss pull her string.....


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## paracowboy (20 Jul 2005)

Correctional Officers, IMO, should be entitled to carry any-damn-thing they want to, including spiked brass knuckles, cattle-prods, and bullwhips.


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## The_Falcon (20 Jul 2005)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> http://www.kingstonthisweek.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=118122&catname=Local+News&classif=News+%2D+Local
> 
> The incident has raised more tension between Correctional Service Canada and union leaders, who have been without a contract for 39 months.
> â Å“This is exactly why we demand that correctional officers be equipped with OC (pepper) spray as part of their uniform,â ? said UCCO President Sylvain Martel.


  39 months without a contract holy crap!!



> â Å“This is a serious incident and we will have an investigation to see how an incident like this can be prevented in the future,â ? said Holly Knowles,


 WTF? Lets see how this sort of thing can be prevent, I dunno how about give guards defensive weapons that will make an inmate think twice before attacking.



> However, Knowles says the number of assaults reported in federal prisons in the 2004-05 fiscal year was one, and the previous two years the numbers were zero.
> She explained that guards will soon have stab-proof vests and that more safety equipment, such as pepper spray, is always within a minute's reach at the prison, should a violent clash occur.


 obviously this woman (and her supperiors) have never been in fight, were you are literally fighting for you life.  That one minute can be a real long time if you get into that kind of situation. [/quote]



> She also said correction workers are trained at how to handle irate inmates.



I am sure words (and empty hand techniques) will work really well on 6'5" 300lb Bubba, who has been lifting weights for the last ten years and was probably put in the pen for being a violent SOB in the first place. What typical liberal thinking, that words are all you will ever need in a confrontation.


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## 2 Cdo (20 Jul 2005)

I agree 100%. Give them the tools to do the job, after all this is PRISON not a day care centre! Of course to listen to our government, all inmates are just products of society and want to be upstanding, good, productive, honest and caring people! What a load of SH*T, prisoners are in jail because they screwed up, and people in prisons REALLY screwed up! But then I suppose prisoners rights are more important than the safety of prison guards! :


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## Steel Badger (20 Jul 2005)

Cheer up comrades.....All will be well soon....


Here is a pic of Monkey....(Herr Monkhouse) posing in the new "Ontario Corrections" anti-Stab (anti-staff?) gear.....




SB


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Jul 2005)

You will pay, sunshine........... ;D


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## a_majoor (22 Jul 2005)

Does that come in CADPAT?  ;D


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## Screw (8 Apr 2006)

Im aware this is a fairly old thread however I felt its important to weigh in on the issue as a federal CO. The union has lots of far out ideas on what we should be doing at work. Now again Im about having safety equipment and want all my brothers and sisters to come home. But in a federal prison carrying something like OC on the range is not a practical recommendation. Gas is kept in all the bubbles on the unit- in the bubble you ALWAYS have a CO monitoring any movement happening on our ranges. This is without exception if their is another CO walking the range. Should an incident occur during a range walk- the CO's in the bubble(more then 2 during open movement) will deploy gas.Although I would like someone to describe an incident on a range that OC would prevent or help prevent.  

Certain posts should and do have OC or access to OC. During yard time a CO(s) can be deployed with gas according to the supervisor on. Who is also a CO.  

During my time with CSC ive noticed the people complaining about not getting equipment are the most likely to abuse that equipment anyways. If Ive needed gas Ive had it. I cant say the same about during transfers, there is some beaurocrisy involved in that but its a completely different story, although its an urgent matter our union isnt pursuing. For reasons I can only guess at, and that isnt fact so ill leave it out. As for vests- eh. Theyre saying 18mos. I couldnt care less. Yes CO's get assaulted. Do they get stabbed? Not often, they get knocked around more then stabbed. Perhaps helmets are in order.  :  The vest system will be implemented poorly im sure, you should hear the suggestions for that system. 5 vests for a unit to swap with oncoming watches etc. But we shall see!

Screw.


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## zipperhead_cop (8 Apr 2006)

Since the thread is now awakened...
Bruce, any headway on this?  Did you get your contract?  I would bloody hope so.  What about the spray, did that pan out?
Inquiring law enforcment minds want to know...


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## marshall sl (8 Apr 2006)

As of today we still do not have a Collective Agreement!
As for the issue of OC spray to COs,it is at the discretion of the Warden.A risk analysis is done each day based on the previous days incident reports.

At the institution I work at we have several posts that carry it each shift,this is signed off by the warden each morning and reported to Regional HQ and then to National .

At any time if a CO in a cellblock that has not been authorized to carry OC feels the need to carry it,he/she can but must justify it in writing to the Correctional Supervisor.

All COs at my institution carry handcuffs and at the Max level will be issued stabproof armour.

As for the total knife assaults against COs ,I don't know.How ever there are 31 Federal Correctional Officers names on the Peace Officer Memorial.Most of those died due to knife assaults


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## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Apr 2006)

I'm provincial, we settle when OPSEU settles. Its our federal brothers/sisters who have been taking it dry from the Govt. Hopefully they get some huge back pay some day.....

I also agree with Screw, I don't want any personal weapons on me when I'm on a floor.
Just one more thing to use against me if I'm blind-sided, however I do want it accessable for those who are coming to my aid and for the most part in the Ontario provincial system, it is.

EDIT; marshall sl  posted while I was typing so some of this is redundant


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## zipperhead_cop (9 Apr 2006)

marshall sl said:
			
		

> As of today we still do not have a Collective Agreement!
> As for the issue of OC spray to COs,it is at the discretion of the Warden.A risk analysis is done each day based on the previous days incident reports.
> 
> At the institution I work at we have several posts that carry it each shift,this is signed off by the warden each morning and reported to Regional HQ and then to National .
> ...



   You guy are around the three year mark with no contract?!?!?!?  Absolutely f_cking unacceptable!  How can that even happen?  Wouldn't a binding arbitration have been launched by now?  Sorry if this seems like a union-ish hijack, I've just never heard of such a thing.  
BTW, is your stuff pepper spray or foam?  Our cell guys have the foam.  Just curious.  
I saw a device once that looked like a black glove, but on the small knuckle and index knuckle there were metal anodes.  It had an internal activating switch, and was essentially a taser glove.  It was a while back, hell maybe it was science fiction.  Seemed like a good idea at the time.  If it doesn't' exist, maybe you guys should invent one.  Better get on it soon, though.  Someone thinks that they are coming:
http://www.stungloves.com/
Jump the idea, make a bundle, then build your own prison (yeah, right  ;D)


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## Screw (9 Apr 2006)

marshall sl said:
			
		

> As of today we still do not have a Collective Agreement!
> As for the issue of OC spray to COs,it is at the discretion of the Warden.A risk analysis is done each day based on the previous days incident reports.
> 
> At the institution I work at we have several posts that carry it each shift,this is signed off by the warden each morning and reported to Regional HQ and then to National .
> ...



Those are all good points- and one hundred true. If the armor saves one life it'll be worth it. But it needs to implemented properly! And yup...no contract. And no end in sight.......despite the rumblings.

And thanks for the back up Bruce. The Ontario corrections program is an excellent one.

Zipperhead- we use spray, the foam was ditched because it was discovered that the inmates could pick it up and fling it back.


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## zipperhead_cop (9 Apr 2006)

Screw said:
			
		

> Zipperhead- we use spray, the foam was ditched because it was discovered that the inmates could pick it up and fling it back.



Bloody hell.  
Bet they couldn't do that with a blue arc of electricity coming off the end of a cattle prod. ^-^


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## Screw (10 Apr 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Bloody hell.
> Bet they couldn't do that with a blue arc of electricity coming off the end of a cattle prod. ^-^



Or a .38 hollowpoint  ;D


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## ChopperHead (10 Apr 2006)

I didn't know that Co's were so under equipped. I find this odd that Co's aren't allowed to carry.

Here in BC the Provincial Sherifs carry a gun, pepper spray, handcuffs, club and some other misc. items. They are basically in charge of prisoners at the court house and prisoner transfers and stuff like that. So if they feel that these inmates are dangerous enough that the Sherifs need guns and everything else then why are they deemed not a significant threat to the Co's?


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## Screw (10 Apr 2006)

GENERALLY speaking where firearms are required they are provided. Some escorts slip by but thats the nature of the beast, those same sherriffs check all their gear in a locker the moment they hit our perimeter fence.

Although it has happened where armed provie guys have dropped an inmate off and we've had to immediately take them for a medical appointment and when he came to the institution he required guns,OC as options but when we take him back out the gate after about 5 mins we bring nothing.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Apr 2006)

Quote from Screw,
_we bring nothing._

...and I said "PARDON"? You can't be serious......


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## Screw (10 Apr 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Quote from Screw,
> _we bring nothing._
> 
> ...and I said "PARDON"? You can't be serious......



Uniforms and handcuffs.... obviously this isnt ALWAYS the case but it has happened, if there isnt enough time to do a "risk assessment" the options are rather limited(read- none).


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Apr 2006)

Ontario,
Two Officers and a driver, pepper foam and ASP baton, escort vest.
Inmate handcuffed and leg ironed.
[Can be removed for medical appointments on my assesment of risk factor]

I give the our Management/ Union a lot of credit for hammering out our escort policy.


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## Steel Badger (17 Apr 2006)

Screw said:
			
		

> Zipperhead- we use spray, the foam was ditched because it was discovered that the inmates could pick it up and fling it back.




Screw

Our ICIT and CET guys use spray, but Officers on Community Escort Duties use foam....ostensibly to minimize the collateral damage.....Tho Johnny Trashbag could easily fling foam into the officer's / nurse's / doctor's / long haired 19 yr old security guy's / chaplain's / visiting pontiff 's/ passerby's mark 1 eyeballs......

Roll on tasers....

( I hear Bruce volunteered totest em      )

SB


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## Bruce Monkhouse (17 Apr 2006)

Already did volunteer :crybaby: a few years ago with the TO Tac squad. They should've been the number 1 purchase of corrections for ICIT/CET years ago.......

By the way, put my name in to get back in the game.......[CET}


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## zipperhead_cop (17 Apr 2006)

Everyone should get tasered once.  Just to see what it is like.  I was able to endure an ultra manly exposure of ONE SECOND before I went down like a bag of potatoes.


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## Screw (18 Apr 2006)

Steel Badger said:
			
		

> Screw
> 
> Our ICIT and CET guys use spray, but Officers on Community Escort Duties use foam....ostensibly to minimize the collateral damage.....Tho Johnny Trashbag could easily fling foam into the officer's / nurse's / doctor's / long haired 19 yr old security guy's / chaplain's / visiting pontiff 's/ passerby's mark 1 eyeballs......
> 
> ...



makes sense- problem with having 2 types is extra training. At least the top would see it that way, and then there is the stupid federal purchasing system. We would inevitably run out of one and then the other would be used in its place. Then someone would argue spray is cheaper and we'd lose it again. Circle of life. Also- the frequency( or should I say infrequency) we are supplied with spice on escorts would not make purchasing a whole seperate tool an attractive endeavor.

I was taserd 2 years ago. I have can think of thousands of situations where that would be useful. Its the one tool we really would use- but its only rumoured to be coming down the pipe. IERT needs it,


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## zipperhead_cop (18 Apr 2006)

The only negative thing that I have heard about the taser is that the carry holster for it doesn't have very good retention(almost zero, just a plastic clip like on a cell phone).  Our tac guys just stick them in their pockets when they are going into a situation.  I could see that being a real problem in a prison setting.  
I liked the prison concept in Demolition Man.  Someone should make that work.   >


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## Screw (18 Apr 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> The only negative thing that I have heard about the taser is that the carry holster for it doesn't have very good retention(almost zero, just a plastic clip like on a cell phone).  Our tac guys just stick them in their pockets when they are going into a situation.  I could see that being a real problem in a prison setting.
> I liked the prison concept in Demolition Man.  Someone should make that work.   >



Why hasnt someone improved the design? Seems like that would be a worthwhile. 

AS for demolition man....I tried to start my own wing of frozen offenders. There were a couple problems with the system- the offenders kept turning up the thermostat, the maintenance guys were pissed about always having to refill the co2 extinguishers, and finally I just got a reputation as a crazy bastard.


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## Steel Badger (18 Apr 2006)

Ahhh for the days of the fire hose at close range....


Saw that once in "K" Detention Bruce....after a mope had thrown piss all over Douggie B


SB


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## zipperhead_cop (19 Apr 2006)

Screw said:
			
		

> Why hasnt someone improved the design? Seems like that would be a worthwhile.
> 
> AS for demolition man....I tried to start my own wing of frozen offenders. There were a couple problems with the system- the offenders kept turning up the thermostat, the maintenance guys were pissed about always having to refill the co2 extinguishers, and finally I just got a reputation as a crazy bastard.



All great ideas get criticized initially.  If at first you don't succeed...


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