# Medic and Nurse



## baudspeed (14 Jan 2007)

Quick question. I know i may get a some chaff for putting this in the wrong section, but If i have my appologies.
First, I am a civillian currently preparing for my application. At this time i am faced with an added dilema, a distraction of a career that may be of use to me pre and post military experience. I am considering becomming an RN, and was wondering if there were any RN's or medics currently enrolled and on army.ca, that can answer a few questions:

1)Did you become an RN first, gain experience, then join the CF, or did you do your first three years in university then join in the last year of school?

2) Medics: Did you have previous medical backgrounds before CF? or did all of your training come from CF?

3) Are there any medics that are previous RNs? and why would you choose to be a medic VS a Nursing Officer?

Best Regards

Lost Cargo


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## medicineman (14 Jan 2007)

Speaking as a medic, I had no real medical background coming into the CF beyond some advanced first aid training.  Most nurses I know joined the CF while in nursing school or just after they finished, though I know a few that are doing the University Training Plan - NCM as baby nurses to be or have actually just finished; these people were NCO's in other trades previous to going to university.

MM


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## baudspeed (14 Jan 2007)

MedicineMan,
you stated that ';these people were NCO's in other trades previous to going to university.', Are you saying that they left the forces to go back to school and then restarted? or were in reserves?


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## Armymedic (14 Jan 2007)

I served in the combat arms before remustering (LOTP) to Med Tech. No previous medical experience.


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## 17thRecceSgt (15 Jan 2007)

My "better half" is a NO who was a RN, BScN and then joined after working in the civilian field (about...ummm...10? years or so experience, including Emerg/OHN and some other stuff).  She is a member of this site, Hot Lips.  She might answer questions on the university/education side and civilian nursing side, if you PM her.  She received no bonuses or subsidized education benefits as she decided to join the CF after completing her BScN.

Please don't ask me anything though, as I am not a medical person, unless you consider Emergency Level SJ's-Ambulance FA "medically trained".   ;D

I am sure HLs wouldn't mind a PM though with questions.


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## medicineman (15 Jan 2007)

Lost Cargo said:
			
		

> MedicineMan,
> you stated that ';these people were NCO's in other trades previous to going to university.', Are you saying that they left the forces to go back to school and then restarted? or were in reserves?



These people became officers through the University Training Plan - Non-Commisssioned Member.  This plan takes soldiers with the proper pre-requisites and sends them to university on the Queen's bill, with them serving as officers in return.  They didn't have to get out to go to nursing school - they were paid by the military to go.

MM


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## Cdnrednk (15 Jan 2007)

I had my interview a week ago, I'm entering in as a med tech as well.
I was put through to be recommended for the service by my interviewer. However, it was strongly suggested by him that I should have had something like an advanced first aid course at least.
Luckily, I have been in a houshold with a parent that is in emergency medicine, so I hear alot and being the curious guy I am, I ask any question that comes to mind, plus I have books at my disposal to read. Wich, I have read and will read again before basic.
However, I know he really suggested I should have taken some kind of education, even just a community college class.
If you get to your interview, don't get so nervous that you draw a blank! I totally forgot a few important things, like having previous basic first aid and CPR training and a week I spent in buffalo helping inner city kids out when he asked for any type of community volunteer work.


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## baudspeed (15 Jan 2007)

Thanks for the tip. I wasn't sure any of my vounteer stuff would have been important. I will have to remember to mention that.


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## one_speed (16 Jan 2007)

" Quick question. I know i may get a some chaff for putting this in the wrong section, but If i have my apologies.

First, I am a civilian currently preparing for my application. At this time i am faced with an added dilemma, a distraction of a career that may be of use to me pre and post military experience. I am considering becomming an RN, and was wondering if there were any RN's or medics currently enrolled and on army.ca, that can answer a few questions:

1)Did you become an RN first, gain experience, then join the CF, or did you do your first three years in university then join in the last year of school?

2) Medics: Did you have previous medical backgrounds before CF? or did all of your training come from CF?

3) Are there any medics that are previous RNs? and why would you choose to be a medic VS a Nursing Officer?

Best Regards

Lost Cargo"


In response to your questions concerning career paths within the CFMS, I have been a practicing RN since 2002 and an Emergency Care Nursing Officer in the reserves since 2003.  All through my university training I had friends involved with the CF who were recruiting me to join the unit (Fd Amb)  before I graduated 
(4 year program).  I chose to hold of on enrolling.

Now that I am "In", I am glad that I did hold off until joining.  Two days after graduation I applied to join the Reg Forces as a NO, buts changed paths to enroll in the Reserves.  

I can speak from experience as an NO, but also to a certain extent as a Med Tech, it is almost better join with a health care background from civi side.  

From the Nursing perspective, my degree and civi license is my trade qualification.  University was busy enough to go without committing to CF service at the same time.  As well, I wouldn't have been employable in the reserves in my trade until I graduated so I would have been more a hanger on, focusing on green skills in unit activities.  The other bonus of studying and working Civi side is the clinical experience and time in without the "green tape" of the military training schedule.

My input from a Med Tech perspective is from working as the training officer for my reserve unit.  The Med Tech's that are getting ahead the most are those with Civi side education (Primary Care paramedic) and employment.   In most takings and postings there will be some sort of prior learning assessment. so the more you can bring with you the better.

My experience with applying for the reg force  and dealing with the temptation of signing bonuses etc., nothing is for free.  Any signing bonuses you may be offered comes with an obligation to serve, so if you join now, spend 4 years in school to attain your degree, pay back 8 years minimum, you had better be sure this is the field you want to practice in.  

Unfortunately I can't speak to clinical experience you may gain by going reg force as an RN or Med Tech.

Hope this rambling offers some type of answer to your question


Ian


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## baudspeed (16 Jan 2007)

Ian,
Thanks for the candid info. I have/had thought  that joining reg and pushing for a medic style trade might be something that was down my alley. As for the RN, my concern therein lies the cost of school. I am 7 years out of university, and the thought of incurring 60,000 in debt for 4 years runs a chill down my spine. Mind you, I also had not thought of doing reserves while going to school, so perhaps that is a way to get the basics out of the way while attending university.

Anyone give me any info on their personal path to becomming a Reg. Forces Medical Technician? have you found that you have been provided with ample opportunity for deployment and challenges? Or is there alot of behind the wire office clean room work?

I guess the thing is that  my interest in ever day life is helping people. I do alot fair amount of vounteering and enjoy challenges of outdoors. The opportunity to combine this in a Medical Technician trade seems at first like a good choice. Not that I wish to bring out the negative, but can anyone cite issues with the trade? what sucks most about it?


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## proudnurse (16 Jan 2007)

Great Thread! Lots of info here and something for me to refer back to. 

Thanks Everyone! 

Rebecca


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## one_speed (16 Jan 2007)

Lost Cargo,

Have you considered  attending a college program for PCP in conjunction with the CF Reserves ?  In Ontario this is generally a two year program, with ride out time with civi EMS while join a reserve Fd Amb to start the green skills side of things.  

Does anyone know how it works in the reg forces for med techs ? I have heard talk of the Reg Force QL3 being the civi PCP equivelant.  I am familiar with the reserve side of things but not the reg force.. how long does it take to become PCP level certified in the CF reg force ?

Adding a BSc Nurisng is a big step to take to get a career in the CF.  It is usually more likely to decide to do something like this before hand then get into the miltary either after or near the end of training. You have do your schooling and clinical work civi side and then apply it to the CF.


Ian


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## Cdnrednk (16 Jan 2007)

yes, it is the civillian equivalent to the civillian PCP. However, I think the training will be alot better than you would get in the civillian world.


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## medicineman (16 Jan 2007)

QL3 Med Techs go to JIBC or Ahuntsic College and complete PCP training as part of their course.  I think the JIBC (correct me someone if I'm too out to lunch) is about 3 months (yes, slightly condensed).  They also have to do clinical and field phases here in Borden.

MM


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## Future-Nurse (17 Jan 2007)

Lost Cargo,
How are you?
I am currently finishing up my first year of University(General Sciences). I have been accepted to start my BScN in Fall 07. Also, I have my ROTP(Civilian University) application with the CF. I've done my interview etc and just waiting for an offer(hoping to get one).
Personally I agree with Ian's comments here. You have to make sure that you are absolutely sure about your choice when it comes to ROTP. You should be willing to join with a long term commitment to CF than a short stint. For me, I want to be a Nurse and I can not afford to pay for my undergraduate degree so ROTP civie works the best for me. Whatever # of years of commitment that comes with it, I am okay with that. 
These are some of the questions you need to ask yourself as far as ROTP NO is concerned.
Hope this helps.

Good Luck

FN


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## baudspeed (17 Jan 2007)

Future Nurse.
Thanks for the heart felt cautioning. It is appreciated. I am aware that there is a fair amount of commitment in years required for the military to pay for courses, etc. And that there is also a grade level that needs to be kept up for this.
My concern is not the duration of my commitment, but rather which field Medical Technician, or Nursing Officer trade I should focus on pursuing. This is more of an information gathering process that i am undergoing.
My commitment at this point to the CF is pretty high. I intend on putting in quite a few years if not until I retire, so that is not something I am concerned with at this time. My goal is not to get things paid for, but rather ensure that the career choice that I am pursuing *IN* the CF is the correct one.


Anyone else in the Medical Technician or Nursing Officer trade that cares to comment on their career path, and how they got where they are? perhapse some reflections on what they wished they had picked up in civi life prior to joining?


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## kj_gully (18 Jan 2007)

one_speed said:
			
		

> Lost Cargo,
> 
> Have you considered  attending a college program for PCP in conjunction with the CF Reserves ?  In Ontario this is generally a two year program, with ride out time with civi EMS while join a reserve Fd Amb to start the green skills side of things.
> 
> ...




If you are considering taking a PCP course b4 enrolling, please consider a career as a SARTech  http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/athomedocs/athome_2_4_e.asp  We are currently accepting accreditted paramedics for direct enrollment, as well as our traditional occupational transfer route. SARTechs spend the majority of their career doing the job for which they trained, namely aid victims of disaster. Nursing in Canada seems to be primarily administrative in nature, with limited "hands on". I'm sure that there is plenty of exposure in Afghanistan, but you can't spend your entire career over there. Any job in the Forces will be challenging and rewarding, good luck in your journey


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## baudspeed (18 Jan 2007)

KJ,
Another excellent suggestion that I had not considered. Thanks!


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## Gunner98 (18 Jan 2007)

KJ: "Nursing in Canada seems to be primarily administrative in nature, with limited "hands on"."  

Please explain from what evidence or wealth of experience you are basing this statement on.  Those OR nurses, Air Evac nurses and critical care nurses just do paperwork do they.  I think I would have to say that in comparison SAR Techs do very little "hands-on" as compared to some of these uniformed nurses.


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## kj_gully (19 Jan 2007)

;D I knew that would kick over a nest... I'm not exactly in the Medical system, more like one of the CFMS's lost half cousins, but I know that many of the tasks that are done by nurses in the civilian system are handled by Medics and PA's in the CF system. That coupled with the general good health of CF "clients" leads me to believe that there is less work load dealing with direct patient contact, and ( like the rest of the military) a lot more time in front of a computer, typing. That by no means is meant to diminish the work done by NO s who take care of our critically wounded soldiers, work in operating rooms, or evac them home . My thought is that there aren't that many nurses employed in those roles, compared to the total # of nurses. Maybe I'm wrong? Your thoughts...


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## Gunner98 (19 Jan 2007)

KJ:

Every career is what you are able to make of it.  I am sure the DART nurse(s), who also been to KAF and Kabul (of which some have done all 3 in the last 4 years) would tell you that they look forward to a period where they can sit behind a computer for a while.

My point was/is that the actual amount of time that a SAR Tech spends doing actual SAR is probably similar to that of a nurse doing nursing of the course of their career.


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## baudspeed (19 Jan 2007)

"...many of the tasks that are done by nurses in the civilian system are handled by Medics and PA's in the CF system...'
I have to agree that this is certainly what it looks like judging from the info provided by the websites VS what i have seen RN's have to deal with. I wonder if an RN in the CF has a different tempo than one in Civilian Emergency Room. The canadian medical system is somewhat stretched at this point, and every day i hear more stories about hospitals closing beds. I make the assumtion in the CF, if there is a need for staffing, or space, it is found since the CF tends to be somewhat self contained. Again this is just my civilian assumption.

BTW what does PA stand for?


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## Fraser.g (19 Jan 2007)

PA= Physician's Assistant

In regards to nursing in the CF, you are both right. I have just returned from the Role 3 MMU, KAF. Some of the other RN's I was working for had a wealth of experience by working in Civi hospitals back in Canada and paid for by DND. The CF is more than willing to send an individual on courses to further their careers both Civilian sponsored and CF driven. CFMS is now just rediscovering the usefulness of RN's with this there will be more drive IMHO to get Reg Force RN's to the bedside so that they can continue to care for CF members and other wounded persons in theater.

Others, depending on their positions, had to fight to get any bed side time while back in Canada. Yes, any career is what you make of it. Some Regular Force RN's are quite happy doing more of the administrative and managerial work behind the scenes while others want to be at the bed side. 

It is also important to note which specialty trade the individual RN's are. NP, OR, CCNO (ICU), CCNO (ER), GDNO, Psych etc.

Yes there is one member over there right now that has been in the CF for just over 5 years, of that time he has been on DART, Kabul and now KAF tours.

GF


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## kj_gully (19 Jan 2007)

Please understand, my little recruiting plug was not meant as a "my trade vs your trade" schoolyard taunt, though it does come across that way in print, I admit. My point was that if someone was considering a career in nursing based on their experience in the civilian healthcare system, that they may be surprised at their potential employment once in uniform. My trade does not have a tremendous amount of patient contacts/year, probably fewer than an ER nurse sees in a shift, my meaning was that the ratio of personnell employed operationally vs the total number of personell in the job was very high, probably more than 2/3.


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## Rifleman62 (27 Jan 2007)

You may find the following interesting. It is about a US Army Reserve soldier living in San Antonio, TX.

*Road to nursing degree ran through Middle East*

Melissa Fletcher Stoeltje
San Antonio Express-News 

If you believe the old chestnut, the better part of success involves just showing up. When it comes to suiting up and getting the job done — even in the face of obstacles — Army Reserve Staff Sgt. James Patterson deserves a gold star. Make that two gold stars. 
Patterson recently graduated with a bachelor of science degree in nursing from the School of Nursing at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. That's an accomplishment in itself, but one rendered all the more remarkable by a stark fact: In the long road to earning his degree, Patterson was interrupted not once but twice. To go to war. 

In his second deployment, he was tantalizingly close to graduating — one semester shy — before he was taken away from loved ones and his beloved studies to the scorching desert of Iraq for an entire year. 

Patterson's story is one of perseverance under trying circumstances, of keeping the faith and grabbing the brass ring even when life presents stumbling block after stumbling block. 

The 45-year-old reservist takes a matter-of-fact view of his trial of endurance. 

"I just told myself I wasn't going to stop until I reached my goal," he says. 

Patterson, a genial man who bears a certain bald-headed resemblance to Bruce Willis — he could be Willis' brother, maybe — sits in the kitchen of his modest North Side home decorated with Spurs memorabilia and American flags. Ciara, the 7-year-old daughter from his second marriage, plays in the living room. On a laptop, he calls forth a photographic slide show of his stint in Gulf War II — the huge spiders, the dust storms, the truck he rode around in that got riddled with bullet holes (he wasn't inside when it was fired on, but still ...). 

Twice in talking about his war experiences, he chokes up. A year later, the memories are still fresh, still tender. 

Patterson was born in Dexter, Maine, a town of 5,000 where about the only industry was a shoe factory. He tried that out of high school, and also worked at his father's bottle-recycling business. But he found his true calling when he became an emergency medical technician, or EMT, riding with the fire department's ambulance service, pulling people from car wrecks, doing water and ice rescues or handling combine accidents. 

But he wanted to learn more and that would take schooling — a luxury his family couldn't afford. So, like so many others, Patterson in 1983 joined the military, as had his father before him as well as his two brothers. In his early 20s he signed up with the National Guard, which sent him for medic training first to Missouri, then to San Antonio, at Fort Sam Houston. 

"I joined the military for school," he says simply. 

After that training he returned to Dexter, where for three years he helped build roads and other projects for the Army's 262nd Engineer Battalion one weekend a month, while still working for the ambulance service. But the siren call of school kept sounding in his ear. 

"I had a passion for what I was doing, but I wanted more training," he recalls. "That was always my striving. I just wanted to help people as best I could no matter what situation I was in." Watching episodes of the TV show "M*A*S*H" also inspired him, he says. 

So it was back to San Antonio in 1986 to undergo a yearlong training at Fort Sam Houston to become a licensed vocational nurse, or LVN, one step removed from a registered nurse. After his program ended, he and his wife at the time, who had traveled with him from Maine, decided to stay in the Alamo City. 

"It didn't snow here," he explains succinctly. 

Patterson got a job working as an LVN at the downtown Baptist Medical Center, working in the emergency department. But the lure of higher education continued, so he began taking the prerequisite courses at St. Philip's College to prepare for nursing school. He joined a local Guard unit, the 217th Evacuation Hospital. Things were thrumming along. 

Then, in 1990, his unit was activated to serve in Desert Storm. He was forced to put his studies on hold and decamp to Saudi Arabia, where he served as platoon sergeant, overseeing 60 soldiers, all of whom were medics and LVNs. It was a scary time. 

"We got SCUD-attacked every night," he remembers. "As soon as the SCUDs left the pad sites, we would scramble and put on our whole (chemical) suits, because you never knew what the rockets were holding." Only later would the military discover there were no chemicals in those bombs. 

His deployment only lasted three months, but after his return his first marriage crumbled, cratered by all his studying and working and his time away from home in the service. Undeterred, Patterson resumed work on his prerequisites and continued working at the Baptist, where he met his current wife, Maria, at the time a phlebotomist who would also go on to become an LVN. 

To increase his rank and knowledge, Patterson, by now in his mid-30s, switched to an Army Reserve unit, the Practical Nurse Detachment, which is part of the 95th Division, made up wholly of instructors. He was now in charge of teaching other LVNs. But Patterson knew he could only apply to become an officer — his goal is captain — if he held a bachelor's degree. 

So in 2003, he applied for and was accepted into the nursing program at the health science center, in something called the Flexible Process program. It's designed for those who have been LVNs for at least a year and have done 62 hours of prerequisite coursework — a fast-track program but a very challenging one. It's supposed to only take 18 months. 

Patterson was one year into the program when, at the end of 2004, his unit was activated for Operation Iraqi Freedom. He decamped again, this time for a medical training base that was a 21/2 hour drive north of Baghdad near the Iranian border. The only way in and out was by helicopter, since the roads were studded with improvised explosive devices, or IEDs. On this stint, Patterson and his small unit were tasked with teaching the Army medic course to Iraqi soldiers, using interpreters, bilingual slides and scarce supplies. 

This stint was even scarier than the last. 

"Our base wasn't closed, so a sniper could come in at any time," he says. "We were on alert all the time." 

He talks of friends being injured, shot. The tears flow and he has to stop for a minute. 

He came home on a vacation in May 2005 and attended the graduation ceremony of the class he was supposed to matriculate with — a disconcerting feeling, he says. But after returning home for good in December 2005, Patterson knocked out his four remaining classes that spring, summer and the following fall. 

"It felt like 100 pounds taken off my head," he says of going through his own graduation ceremony. "A chapter has finally closed in my life." No, he says, he never thought of giving up. And with that ceremony, Patterson joined a small but growing cadre: Today, male nurses make up 8 percent of America's registered nurses. 

Maria, who has a 20-year-old daughter and a 15-year-old son from an earlier marriage, says she never doubted her husband would follow through on his dreams. 

"It was very tough, having all our lives interrupted by Iraq, all the ups and downs," she says. "But to see him finally get his degree was very special." An insurance specialist, she now plans to go on and earn her nursing degree. 

"I tell him, now you're done with yours, it's time for me to do mine," she says. 

Dr. Linda Porter-Wenzlaff, director of the Flexible Process program, says she marveled at Patterson's ability to take up where he left off when his studies were disrupted. 

"All students in the Flex program usually come with a varied and circuitous background," she says. "I always tell them that tenacity is how you get through it — getting up everyday and deciding you're just going to do it. And James has certainly had to do that more than any student I've seen in a long time." 

Today, Patterson is an LVN at Brooke Army Medical Center, on the ICU step-down unit — for stabilized ICU patients — where he's worked since 2000. He will take his registered-nurse state boards soon, and is applying for commissioned-officer status. If he gets accepted, it will mean officer training school — a next step that would keep him stateside, at least for a while. 

But Patterson knows there's always a chance he could be deployed again, especially with all the talk of a "surge" in Iraq. If he becomes an officer, that means he gives 10 more years of his life to the reserves. 

"I'm going if I have to go," he says. "Because while I joined the military for school, I'm also a soldier. I may not like it, it may be inconvenient, but it's my duty." 

mstoeltje@express-news.net


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## baudspeed (27 Jan 2007)

At this time i am leaning towards Medical Technician just because of the above. Nursing program takes 4 years, and depending on how much the CF sponsors, it could mean a longer contract or more personal debt. I like the fact that the Regular CFs train to canadian paramedic standards, and provides the training. At this point i cant pay / student loan the 40,000$ of debt required. been there done that in my last career, and am having a hard time stomaching the idea of being in debt again (finally paid off).

Did anyone reading this have their CPC(?) Paramedic Certification Lvl 1 (civilian) prior to joining the CF? and how do you think it affected the recruiting process? Did you still have to take the same paramedic training over again at JI? or were you exempt from some of the course?


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## herseyjh (28 Jan 2007)

LS,

A PCP certification could be a good introduction to the medical world.  A nice way to get your feet wet so to speak without the risk of a 4 year BN just to find out that is not your gig.  Secondly, as a PCP you could work on the side if you decided to get into nursing.  I know you expressed concern over the cost and this could be a way to reduce expenses.

As for prehospital training I had that (an my nursing) but I still got slated on my QL3 Med-A and I couldn't get my QL4 written off.  It is my understanding that this might have changed now.  Either way I can't see how it would hurt you application.  

A secondary benefit of having your foot in the civilian world, so to speak, is patient contact as this is very limited in the CFMS.  I know things are a bit different now due to current operations but none the less no matter how you look at working on the civi side will win out in the end.


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## baudspeed (29 Jan 2007)

Herseyjh,
That path seem to be the optimal at this point. Thanks for the input.


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## medaid (29 Jan 2007)

an even better way to get your 'feet wet' as it wer LC, is to take your EMR. In BC, EMR is the most basic level you may have to work on car. It is also a requirement prior to taking your PCP here in BC. Good luck on your decision. The PRes is also now contemplating paying for PCP training. However, you will serve 3 years after the course. One year in the box, one year back at the base teaching the next group of ppl going over to the box, and the last year attach posted back to your old unit to teach them what they'll expect in the Box.


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## herseyjh (29 Jan 2007)

Good point with the EMR.  Industrial standby by is an other option as an EMR.  Not the most stimulating but it gets the bills paid and sometimes that is all you need.  An ambulance job as an EMR would be the best as you could use it to pay for your PCP.  That is how I started, but my job was in northern Alberta.

I think EMR ambulance jobs are getting harder and harder to find and will depend very much on where you are from and how willing you are to drive into the middle of nowhere.

Good luck.


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## medaid (29 Jan 2007)

yupperz... here in BC, you're looking at RURAL and that's rural with ALL capitals for an EMR position. But it's still very awesome to be able to get a gig like that.


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## flaps_at_10 (30 Jan 2007)

Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg will be provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.  the reserves can now only employ PCP and RN trained pers, no longer can they join with nothing, the REGF does however take you with nothing and will train.


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## 17thRecceSgt (30 Jan 2007)

flaps_at_10 said:
			
		

> Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg will be provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.  the reserves can now only employ PCP and RN trained pers, no longer can they join with nothing, the REGF does however take you with nothing and will train.



Wow.  Really?  I am not a Medical person, but was wondering the reasoning?  Are the Reserve courses suffering that big of a delta with the Reg Frce ones?  Or is it a "quantity to quality" issue, that CFHS is finding that Reserve Med Techs, NO's and MO's are suffering too much skill fade to keep current?

Again, I am just curious, that seems to be a huge shift from what I know/have seen in 17 years with the Reserves.


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## baudspeed (30 Jan 2007)

I got the general impression from discussions on this board that Medical Technicians tend to be reg while Medical Assistants are the Resv. version of the same trade. I was chatting with a friend in the reserves here in BC and he stated that things have changed because of the fires we had a few years ago. He said that the medics were not allowed to help because they were not pcp cert. and the reserves seem to want to have that capabiliy. *shrug*. I know nothing about anything, so take what i was told for what its worth.


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## Gunner98 (30 Jan 2007)

flaps_at_10 said:
			
		

> Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg will be provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.  the reserves can now only employ PCP and RN trained pers, no longer can they join with nothing, the REGF does however take you with nothing and will train.



The source of your UFI is? Document, announcement, hearsay, crystal ball?


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## medaid (31 Jan 2007)

huh... I think I'd hear about the reserve trg and acceptance being changed... that's interesting...


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## flaps_at_10 (31 Jan 2007)

The source of my UFI comes from the RX2000 reserve team.  True reserve medics and reg f med techs have a large gap.  to be deployable a reservist must be a PCP or higher.  In some provinces this is easy to get (alberta and Quebec) but for example in Ontario it takes 2 years and our paramedics bring in over 70G's with over time and have no interest in the reserves for the most part.  they have changed the recruiting standard for the reserves and if you don't believe me, call your local reserve med unit.  they also have a gap course for reserves which brings them to a clinical QL3, non deployable but can work in an MIR in Canada.

there is a lot of emphasis being placed on the medical PRL, which takes traine dPCP, nurses and docs. gives them unlimited jammy tasking and can deploy them in months and then bring them back to do nothing if they wish.

As for the REGF, the contract with the JI runs out soon and the powers to be are looking at the Ontario PCP program as the way ahead. is it....only time will tell?


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## Donut (31 Jan 2007)

Flaps, you realize you're talking to a Rctng O for a HS Res unit, right?

and I taught him everything he knows    ;D

What you're saying is similar, but not exactly the same as current policy; there are non-PCP or HCP reserve positions, they're just not everywhere.   (and, FWIW, this policy will result in the death of the HS Res, not some magic cabinet of Health Care Professionals the CF can just open when they want.) 

As to the PRL, they've done a piss-poor job of Public Relations, and their left and right hands don't seem to know what the other is doing.  Are they hiring PCPs?  One week yes, one week no.  Check the website?  That's a laugh.  "Unlimited jammy taskings?" or how about "the courses have been cancelled,  but you're ok with 3 weeks of unpaid leave from your hospital, right?  We'll try again next month.  What do you mean you're not available?"

From conversations with some of the the JIBC management team today:  The PCP RFP has gone out, the JI has been extended to the end of the year (calendar or fiscal, I didn't ask).  The RFP has a geographic limit of within 100km of Borden, with precepting happening within 200km of Borden (which precludes it from staying here in BC).  Increased control and contact with the candidates was cited as the reasons for the change, but that did come from the JI staff, so take it for what it's worth.  

Enjoying my unpaid 3 week leave of absence....

DF


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## herseyjh (31 Jan 2007)

I do thing the PRL is a viable option for the medical branch.

For me personally it is a way that I can combine my civilian and military life.  The CF gets a trained medical provider at no cost really, and I get the satisfaction of being able to deploy in a medical capacity.  Something that I never got from the reserve medical branch.

PMT, I also agree with you statement that the PRL does need some work in the PR and HR department.  I am pushing a year and a half for my recruiting process and as it stands now things look good that I might be ready for my summer basic officer training.  If not the word is that everything should be ready for next summer and I can be course loaded then!  Can you imagine if that is the case? I am crossing my fingers that my CFAT scores can be found, if not I am sure that will be an other 3 months.  I am going to stick with it but I wonder how many applicants the CF will loose because of this.

So what are you going to do with your 3 weeks off?!

JH


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## flaps_at_10 (31 Jan 2007)

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think if we remain on course ( my own opinion) there will be no medical reserve( or one as w eknow it) within 3 -5 years.  the PRL is sloppy and yes they take forever, not to defend but they have no clerks but some very keen reserve med techs trying to be clerks.  the work very hard and have the right intentions for the PRL.  I have been a reserve med tech for almost 14 years and have seen many changes. some good, some bad and lots stupid.  I am not high enough on the food chain to give exact answers on this but only my speculations a reservist who is also a CSM of a reserve unit.  

I like the concept of the PRL, but I am sad that we are apperently washing our hands from the unskilled keen high school student who wants summer employment and a skill. I have seen taskings decrease and decrease and regulations creep up ( need QL5A equivalenices ect)  I see that our unit may only get 3-5 QL3 spots this summer, well I have a PAT PL of 15...tell them that, I know some of you have been hanging around for 2 years but I still can't send you on course.....

I see the GAP as a priorirty. you know what is funny.  Our office has purchased AED's for the reserve Military police, but I still am waiting for them from the HQ for the reserve medicla units?

I technically train my fire fighters to a higher level than we train our reserve med techs?  AMFR2 is a great course but not PAC approved as of yet, although it meets all the guidelines.  why has no one fought to get this done, why are we not looking at giving them the Red Cross EMR qualification that we give the Fire Fighters.

I work in an ICU an dI talk to several nurses that want to join, sadly I even talked a gas pusher to go regf, well themoney really helped her decide and they can'y get in fast enough.  Not that i am protecting the PRL, but the recruitin system is flawed, i am 2 years into a CT/OT and still have no answer?????


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## medaid (1 Feb 2007)

funny thing flaps, as me and paramedtech were at the JI today, one of the suggestions brought up and concurred with was that we should bring the JI instructors to our unit, and upgrade all our members who have OFA3 or Red Cross FR to EMRs. I am also a firm believer that all Reserve Med Tech QL3 should be an EMR course (QL3s). Do away with the useless AMFR2 which is not really recognized by anyone except St Johns, and give our members a licensed document to practice. This way, when they are really ready and truly want to become PCPs we then send them on it. That will be their QL4s. Also change the policy so that they are not longer mandatory promotable after their DP1. There are WAY too many Cpls running around for my liking, and way too many ppl who just get their second hook... well just because.


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## medaid (1 Feb 2007)

Lost Cargo said:
			
		

> I got the general impression from discussions on this board that Medical Technicians tend to be reg while Medical Assistants are the Resv. version of the same trade. I was chatting with a friend in the reserves here in BC and he stated that things have changed because of the fires we had a few years ago. He said that the medics were not allowed to help because they were not pcp cert. and the reserves seem to want to have that capability. *shrug*. I know nothing about anything, so take what i was told for what its worth.




LC, there are no longer the title difference. Back when I joined in 03, I was one of the first few reservists that got designated as 737. Notice that I did not have the nice R usually found before the MOC? My fellow troops were still being designated R711 for some of them. I don't exactly remember when, but it was changed over so that everyone was a R737. Opps... sorry I forgot. R711 was the old Medical Assistant trade or MedAid. Now R737 is the new designation which is Medical Technician. So now we share the same MOC designator as our reg force counterparts, however, with the age old R, and the difference in standards and training.


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## herseyjh (1 Feb 2007)

MedTech,

It is good to hear that there is a new MOC for the reserves.  So how would you sum up the difference between the old 711 MOC and the 737?  Does it boil down to PCP training?  I am out of the loop a bit as I left the medical companies around '03.

I think no matter how you look at it, the reserve medical world needs a role.  I think that will help with retaining staff and giving new member something to shoot for as it is hard to keep people motivated otherwise.


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## Gunner98 (1 Feb 2007)

flaps_at_10 said:
			
		

> Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg *will be * provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.





			
				flaps_at_10 said:
			
		

> The source of my UFI comes from the RX2000 reserve team...As for the REGF, the contract with the JI runs out soon and the powers to be are looking at the Ontario PCP program as the way ahead. is it....only time will tell?



So there is no official document or announcement, a competitive bid/contract process is still under way.


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## medaid (2 Feb 2007)

herseyjh said:
			
		

> MedTech,
> 
> It is good to hear that there is a new MOC for the reserves.  So how would you sum up the difference between the old 711 MOC and the 737?  Does it boil down to PCP training?  I am out of the loop a bit as I left the medical companies around '03.
> 
> I think no matter how you look at it, the reserve medical world needs a role.  I think that will help with retaining staff and giving new member something to shoot for as it is hard to keep people motivated otherwise.



Oh my... well I guess the Reserves just followed suit with what our RegF counterparts did, and switched over to the new 737 designation. The real reason behind that, I will have to differ to some of my more learned brethren. I unfortunately don't know enough of about the RegF to really comment on anything. Sorry herseyjh.


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