# Question need some help...



## Canada14 (23 Mar 2005)

Hi,

      Was looking at joining the air force since I love flying, I wanted to know how many hours pilots log in say a month? Ive already got my private pilot licence so the medical stuff isnt in my way. Is there certain test they make you do before you join and is there a certain score you must get on them I assume it must be high.? Once you say pass and medically cleared, what is the length of time they will accept you,  a year , 5 months and idea? Think they would take people since the population of the army is quite low  


Last question is when you join as a pilot, do you get the option of what planes/helicopter you will be handling or there assign you to a certian plane/heli and you fly that for time being...?

Thank for all the help appreicate it...


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## aesop081 (23 Mar 2005)

Canada14 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Was looking at joining the air force since I love flying, I wanted to know how many hours pilots log in say a month? Ive already got my private pilot licence so the medical stuff isnt in my way. Is there certain test they make you do before you join and is there a certain score you must get on them I assume it must be high.? Once you say pass and medically cleared, what is the length of time they will accept you,   a year , 5 months and idea? Think they would take people since the population of the army is quite low
> 
> ...



If you think that because you are medicaly fit for a PPL that you are medicaly fit for military pilot,, you are in for one hell of a shock.


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## Canada14 (23 Mar 2005)

I didnt say I was medicaly fit for air froce. I said I had my medical done and no health problems. There a big difference from flying a Cessna 172 and F14


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## Zoomie (24 Mar 2005)

I highly recommend that you conduct a thorough search of this forum.  All of your questions have been addressed and answered in detail.  I also suggest that you visit www.dnd.ca and find out what the Canadian Forces are all about, as your facts are slightly skewed and need addressing.  (ie.  who flies the F-14 anymore - Iran maybe...  the USN is moving towards the Super Hornet)


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## Inch (24 Mar 2005)

Canada14 said:
			
		

> Ive already got my private pilot licence so the medical stuff isnt in my way.



aesop was referring to this sentence. Having a PPL does in no way mean the medical stuff isn't in your way, do you have a Cat 3 or a Cat 1 medical? If it's a 3 that means you can't even have a CPL and trust me, the CF medical standards for pilots are quite a bit higher than Cat 1 standards let alone Cat 3 standards.

Follow Zoomie's advice and search, I know the two of us as well as some other pilots have answered all your questions already.


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## ArmyAviator (24 Mar 2005)

Guys, don't be so hard on this young'un.   Canada 14, there are several things you will want to consider.  First off, what university courses do you want.  With very few exceptions you will need to get a degree to enroll as an officer and pilot in the CF.  If your marks are good enough and you are keen the military can provide the education for you under the ROTP programme.  You would most likely go to RMC (Royal Military College in Kingston ON) and spend four years there.  During the summers you will accomplish various trade specific and general officer training.  These include for pilots, Second language, Primary Flying selection at Portage, and SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, and escape) training.  After that off to Moose Jaw for basic flying.  There you will be asked for your preferences for what type of aircraft you would like to fly.  Just remember that the needs of the service are overriding and you may not get what you ask for.  For example, over 50% of the cockpits are helicopters.  This means that you have a greater than 50/50 chance of ending up back at portage for the basic helicopter school.  There is  the multi-engine and jet courses.  During the advanced flying, Multi, helo, or jet, you will be asked once again on your preference and selections will be made with that in consideration.  Right now if you do well and want tac hel or fighters you have better odds than if you want Hercs and or Search and Rescue helicopters. 

Flying hours vary on aircraft type and whether or not you are deploying on a mission.  The lowest are the fighters who avg about 200 hrs.  (Sea Kings might be lower right now but this is not due to allocation as much as it is serviceability.)  The high timers I think are still the Herc guys but it varies.  We had guys on the Tac Hel squadrons get over 500 hrs in a year when we deployed to Kosovo (including all the prep time etc.)

Pop into the local recruiting office and make an appointment to talk to a recruiter.  Check out the DND web site mentioned by Zoomie.  Good luck 8)


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## Inch (24 Mar 2005)

ArmyAviator, you're right.

As ArmyAviator mentioned, amount of hours per month depends on airframe. Legality of it says no more than 100 hrs in a month for rotary and I believe jet types as well. Sea King pilots will get around 40-50 hours a month when deployed and about half that if they're lucky back ashore. However, serviceability is the limiting factor in how much we fly and occasionally weather, lately we've had 7 of 14 serviceable if you can believe it so lot's of flying the last few weeks.

If you join ROTP, you'll sign a 9 year contract. Most DEO's that I know also signed 9 year contracts. The difference is the ROTP guys cannot leave if they wanted to since it's obligatory service for having school paid for. Specifically for pilots, it's 7 years mandatory service _after_ you get your wings and this applies to all pilots regardless of the airframe that you're flying. In my case, I had 5 years in when I got my wings, thus I'll have 12 years in before I can leave.

ArmyAviator was bang on, you will put in a request for what you want to fly but ultimately the needs of the CF come before your preference.

Good luck.


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## foxtwo (25 Mar 2005)

Canada14 said:
			
		

> Last question is when you join as a pilot, do you get the option of what planes/helicopter you will be handling or there assign you to a certian plane/heli and you fly that for time being...?



Hey bud, I'm in the same boat as you almost, except I'm 14 so I don't have my PPL yet. But regards to this question, I was told by a recruiting dude that you don't choose your aircraft, the aircraft chooses you.


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## Bo (25 Mar 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> In my case, I had 5 years in when I got my wings, thus I'll have 12 years in before I can leave.



Sorry to hijack this thread but 5 years to earn your wings??? Is this common in the CF or was your case special (delays, leave of absence, etc.) ? The recruiting form "says" 2 years while most guys on this forum say 3-4 years.


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## Inch (25 Mar 2005)

Bo said:
			
		

> Sorry to hijack this thread but 5 years to earn your wings??? Is this common in the CF or was your case special (delays, leave of absence, etc.) ? The recruiting form "says" 2 years while most guys on this forum say 3-4 years.



Nope, pretty normal. I did 8 months of school as part of those 5 years. Here's the short bio, enrolled Jun 99, BOTC I during the summer of 99, 3rd year Sault College Aviation, BOTC II May-Jun 2000, SLT Jun 00 - Apr 01, OJT Apr 01 - Nov 02, Moose Jaw Dec 02 - Jul 03, OJT Jul 03 - Sept 03, Basic Helo School Oct 03 - 02 Apr 04. Two months short of 5 years. Most guys that I went through MJ with enrolled DEO in Jan 00 so I was only 6 months ahead of them. 3-4 years is pretty standard, I don't know of anybody that got their wings 2 years after enrolling.


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## Bo (25 Mar 2005)

Thanks for the quick reply. Dumb question, what's OJT? I tried searching the abbreviations thread http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24881/post-9336.html#msg9336 but couldn't find anything. I'm assuming SLT is Second-Language training.


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## aesop081 (25 Mar 2005)

it means "on-the-job training", its what they call it when they send you somewhere to wait for your turn to go on course


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## Infanteer (25 Mar 2005)

I always thought OJT to mean learning by doing - ie: learning to to section attacks by leading a section instead of going on course....


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## aesop081 (25 Mar 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I always thought OJT to mean learning by doing - ie: learning to to section attacks by leading a section instead of going on course....



Not all the time my freind..not all the time !!  I was on OJT at 403 sqn from april last year to september and what my job consisted of was to be "self loading ballast for the pilots.  Alot of people on OJT have menial jobs n units, sort of "gainful employement" until they go on some MOC training or other endevour.


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

Hey guys I had an important question. In high school you can earn a credit (up to 4 I think) by doing an apprenticeship program through working with a professional. For example, let's say I want to be a Photographer. I can spend one whole semester with a Photographer being his/her apprentice without pay. Is there anyway I can do this through the CF in any element? It sounds great to me and would me being a Cadet give me an advantage?


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## Inch (26 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Hey guys I had an important question. In high school you can earn a credit (up to 4 I think) by doing an apprenticeship program through working with a professional. For example, let's say I want to be a Photographer. I can spend one whole semester with a Photographer being his/her apprentice without pay. Is there anyway I can do this through the CF in any element? It sounds great to me and would me being a Cadet give me an advantage?



I don't know about other trades, but it's quite a paper trail to take civilians flying in CF aircraft. Not to mention that we're not flying all the time so it'd be pretty boring. I just can't see it working in most instances in the CF, people are constantly on the move, either in the field, at sea, on courses, etc, and it'd be impossible to take someone with us on all that stuff, not to mention that you've got to eat and what not which no one is going to pay for out of their budget.

There is a Militia Co-Op program, I don't know all the details on it, but basically you're enrolled in the reserves and you do your BMQ in the afternoons and on weekends vice going to class at your school.


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> There is a Militia Co-Op program, I don't know all the details on it, but basically you're enrolled in the reserves and you do your BMQ in the afternoons and on weekends vice going to class at your school.



Oh really! Thats amazing. I'm going to go do a bit more research in that, and I'll post it up here so other people can see it whom are interested. And about the flying... I know it would be a whole lot of paper work, insurance oh god just the thought of it all! I was basically thinking of something more of the Army element, and how I can sort of help them out- working for free and stuff. Maybe being like kitchen duty on exercises. Anything this close to the reserves is gold to me. Other than that, I'll go check out some sites and report back.


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## aesop081 (26 Mar 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Oh really! Thats amazing. I'm going to go do a bit more research in that, and I'll post it up here so other people can see it whom are interested. And about the flying... I know it would be a whole lot of paper work, insurance oh god just the thought of it all! I was basically thinking of something more of the Army element, and how I can sort of help them out- working for free and stuff. Maybe being like kitchen duty on exercises. Anything this close to the reserves is gold to me. Other than that, I'll go check out some sites and report back.



If nothing else kid, you are eager and motivated.......good luck, its nice to see !


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

LOL after my last search aesop081, my motivation in researching that stuff has hit rock bottom. I don't know if I spelled it wrong, or am just to stupid when it comes to internet, I couldn't find one damn thing.  :-\

But it's okay, Inch if you can- or anybody else that knows more in this field can elaborate on this a bit for me please? I'm sure many other people in high school are also eager to find out different methods or earning credits _through_ the CF.

Thanks for all your help guys, if it wasn't for you, and me not finding this sight, I would have still set up my life plan revolving around being a Pilot, and if I didn't make the ACS would be shattered.  ;D


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## Inch (26 Mar 2005)

Search on here, I know it's been the subject of a few threads. Have a look at the Recruiting FAQ, it may be in there.

Try this one for starters.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18014.0.html


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

That was a pretty good link, but the info for me is still hollow. I'm going to hit a recruiting thread see if they know anything more on this topic.

Thanks,

FoxTwo


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

Oh this question is straight out of the blue.

How do you address NCO's if you are a cadet/civilian? By Sir or Rank?


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## Big Foot (26 Mar 2005)

In my experience, it doesn't really matter. It's only once you get in that it matters.


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

Yes I understand that, but if you were a Sgt. would you rather have a 14 year-old calling you Sgt or Sir, (some would prefer being called by their ranks), but what is the written/unwritten rule if there is one?


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## Zoomie (26 Mar 2005)

Call him Sergeant...

Militia Co-Op is right up your alley my friend.  I once instructed on such a course and have spent time in the unit recruiting booth back when I was green.

Here's the scoop and feel free to fire any more questions my way.

Once you turn 16 you are eligible to join the Army Reserves (with parental consent) - some school boards have an agreement in the works with the CF to allow their students to attend military training during the week while still fulfilling any school requirements.  In most cases these students are still paid as soldiers in the CF (because they are).  You will gain 4 high school credits (in most cases these credits are not advanced and thus not ideal for prospective University students - keep this in mind).  Training is usually done in the second term of school (Jan-Jun) - if you school does not have two distinct terms, then you may have to change schools for that year.

End result - 4 high school credits, basic training in the Army and a good chance of getting summer employment in order to complete your more advanced courses.


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## Arty_4 (26 Mar 2005)

Ok..... sticking my neck out here a bit as i don't have all the info like other ppl in my unit would but here it goes.....

Out here in BC (lower mainland primarily) it is a requirement to graduate high school that you have completed 40 hours of OJT at some sort of work. Now, I'm not to sure who came up with this idea whether its CFRC or local units but what has been going on out here is the units canvass the local high schools that we will fill this requirement for them. so what we have done is put together a pseudo basic package that is 1 week in length. So for 1 week a specific high school is brought in and the kids will learn drill, PT, basics of how we can survive in the field (i.e. shown IMP's and how we prepare them), how to set up hooches and personal cam and concealment, shown basic weapons and description of such ( just an intro to them to see what they look like and how they feel in their hands). we don't get into the drills to use them at all. They are also shown the "bigger picture" in how our unit fits into the overall battle so they have an understanding of how all the different components of the army work together to complete the common goal. And numerous other things to round out the week of "training". From this program they then have a better idea of what the military has to offer them in the future and many come out with a better prospective of the military in general. I'll talk to some buddies who are more closely associated with this program and try to find out more, i.e. the name of this program (which for the life of me I cannot remember) 

Anyways.... you can check with recruiting and they I'm sure will know of this program and if it is offered in your area
hope this helps in some way and good luck in your search to lend a hand


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## foxtwo (26 Mar 2005)

Thanks for the reply Zoomie and Arty_4, I _attempted_ to ask this question in the recruiting forum, but you guys respond much faster. This is what I posted up.

Hey guys, I just wanted to clarify a few things about Army Reserve Co-Op (High School). This is if you were to join a Combat Ready Infantry Unit (Lorne Scots).

1) When would you go?
2) Will it interfere with your summer of that year?
3) What would you exactly be doing everday?


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## foxtwo (31 Mar 2005)

I take back my "fast response" comment...


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## Garbageman (3 Apr 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply Zoomie and Arty_4, I _attempted_ to ask this question in the recruiting forum, but you guys respond much faster. This is what I posted up.
> 
> Hey guys, I just wanted to clarify a few things about Army Reserve Co-Op (High School). This is if you were to join a Combat Ready Infantry Unit (Lorne Scots).
> 
> ...



foxtwo, I'm a co-op teacher, and currently have one student doing a militia co-op placement with an armoured recce unit.  

Since you're interested in the Lorne Scots, I'm going to assume that you're in the Brampton area.  I'm not 100% sure if they offer a militia co-op program or not, as not all units do.  I can tell you how the program runs at my school, but you're best to talk to the co-op department or guidance at your school for more information.  If they look at you like you're from mars, then they likely aren't running that program.  If that's the case, phone around to other schools in the area to find one that is (even try the other school boards if necessary - I know that the York Public board runs militia co-op).

In our situation, the student attends training with the unit from 0800-1630 Tuesday to Friday, and will be going out to the field with them for some longer periods as well.  They are basically doing the Basic Military Qualification (BMQ) and Soldier Qualification (SQ) courses, so that this summer, that individual can go on to advanced MOC training if he wishes.  He gets 4 credits, since it's an all day placement, and is also getting payed by the CF (most other co-op placements don't allow this).  There is no commitment to stay with the unit once they're done the semester (so, no, it won't necessarily effect your summer), however most of the students end up staying on because they've enjoyed it so much.  As for what he's doing everyday, well just find yourself a description of BMQ and SQ for your answer (first aid, drill, C-7 service rifle, map & compass, care of personal kit, etc)

Hope that helps.


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## foxtwo (3 Apr 2005)

Thanks Garbageman,

That's now motivated me to talk to a counselor. And yup I do live in Brampton  

I doubt the Lorne Scots has a Co-op, or it would have been advertised on their sight right?
If I get my school to them to look into it now, (which is still really new) is there a chance that the Lorne Scots could start a Co-op or something, or would it be too much work... I'm too scared to call the Scots, I don't know why (lol). I still have plenty of time though. I'm only in Grade 9  ;D


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## Garbageman (3 Apr 2005)

After talking to some other people, I've learned that the Lorne Scots did at one time offer a militia co-op program.  Just not sure if they still do or not.  Since you're getting paid to do it though, it would be easy for you to commute into a unit somewhere else if you had to (my student takes the GO train everyday).

You're right though, you've still got time to think about it.  But the application process usually starts earlier than for other co-op programs, so good to be thinking about it now.  In order to qualify, you have to meet all of the CF's standards, as well as have achieved 16 credits (usually this means done Grade 10).  Our program runs only in the second semester every year.


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## foxtwo (5 Apr 2005)

Since I am gone for a whole semester, Is there a way where I can get like a residence at like Trenton and do some reserve there work there or something for a few months If I do air reserve? That would be my dream    Even better if they pay for it...


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## Garbageman (5 Apr 2005)

16 Wing Borden JUST started taking College co-op students, and that took a lot of convincing.  Those are students taking an Aviation Management program, so it's not likely that they'd be keen on taking on high school students with no formal training.  Who knows, I could be mistaken, but essentially, your co-op placement opportunities depend entirely on how ambitious you and your co-op teacher want to be.  I doubt they'd be receptive to you doing a placement that far away from home though.  As your teachers, we are mandated to do regular visits, and obviously, this would present a bit of a problem.


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## foxtwo (6 Apr 2005)

I wanted to talk to the Co-op teacher guy, but he wasn't in his office afterschool. I'm going to try again.

Thanks Garbageman


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