# Tartans for Highland Regiments



## Ex-Dragoon (7 Aug 2011)

Ok was looking at my old militia regiment's web page and saw that they have gone through several tartan changes. My question to the more historically inclined members out there are:
1) Is it common for highland units to switch out tartans like this?
2) Are not tartans treated the same as battle honours?
Placeholder for further questions....

Regimental Tartan and March Past
The 94th Victoria Regiment (Argyle Highlanders)
1871 to 1920
Tartan: Campbell (Duke of Argyll)
(Black Watch)
Motto: Dileas Do'n Bheatich
(True to the Flag)
March Pass: Campbell's are coming

The 85th and 185th C.E.F. Great War
1915 to 1920
Tartan: Sutherland (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders)
(Black Watch)
Motto: Siol Na fear Fearail
(Breed Of Manly Men)
March Pass: 85th --- The Highland Laddie
185th -- All the Blue Bonnets are Over the Border

The Cape Breton Highlanders
1920 to1954
Tartan: Sutherland (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders)
(Black Watch)
Motto: Siol Na Fear Fearail
(Breed of Manly Men)
March Pass: The Highland Laddie

2nd Bn Nova Scotia Highlanders (Cape Breton)
1954 to Present
Tartan: MacDonald, Clan Donald
Motto: Siol Na Fear Fearail
(Breed of Manly Men)
March Pass: The Highland Laddi


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## Michael OLeary (7 Aug 2011)

No, tartans would not be "treated the same as battle honours." Many regimental accoutrements and affectations (badge designs, colours [not Colours], tartan designs, marchpasts, etc.) were chosen by the CO or regimental committee of the day and could be changed at will when the proponents of the earlier versions had moved on or their line of reasoning (if known) no longer applied. While many regiments create lore around the special "significance" of such items, and no doubt some have a provable basis for their origin, the actual reasons for selection are generally seldom recorded because they weren't that important at the time.

I know of one regimental marchpast that was chosen by a show of hands of the unit on parade in 1906. And for another, a camp flag that was created literally overnight because a Brigade HQ at a Militia summer camp demanded that each unit fly one. While the symbolism used in the flag could be connected to the unit, there was no hard regimental significance to it.


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## Ex-Dragoon (7 Aug 2011)

Thank you Michael...I never realized it was almost like a "plug and play" process.


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## Dennis Ruhl (7 Aug 2011)

Note that no changes were initiated for reasons of simple change.  The first change was because the Argyll Highlanders and Sutherland Highlanders had previously merged in Scotland.  There was no obligation to follow suit but I suspect that when the kiltless 85th kilted up, Argyll and Sutherland kilts were readily available but the Aygyll ones not so.

The change of the regiment in 1920 was now to match both their own 85th, 185th  and the A & S Highlanders in Scotland.

The change in 1954 was brought on by the unnecessary merger with the North Nova Scotia Regiment that has recently been reversed.

I suspect any change in tartan back to the A & S will depend on a combination of government funds plus fundraising.


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## Michael OLeary (7 Aug 2011)

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> Note that no changes were initiated for reasons of simple change.  ....
> 
> There was no obligation to follow suit ...



Those two statements contradict themselves. If there was no obligation, than it was a change simply because someone said it would be so.



			
				Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> The change of the regiment in 1920 was now to match both their own 85th, 185th  and the A & S Highlanders in Scotland.



By 1920 both the 85th and 185th had ceased to exist. To adopt that pattern was simply a regimental decision to do so at the time, perhaps to foster the perpetuated connections. There would have been no underlying deeper significance requiring it to meet historical obligations. There is also no obligation to match regiments in the British Army, if someone decided to follow a trend there, it was a local decision to do so.



			
				Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> The change in 1954 was brought on by the unnecessary merger with the North Nova Scotia Regiment that has recently been reversed.



All that has been done is a change of name of the 2nd Battalion of the Nova Scotia Highlanders back to the "Cape Breton Highlanders." The amalgamation will not be "undone" unless they also unravel the shared perpetuations and battle honours.


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## Dennis Ruhl (7 Aug 2011)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> All that has been done is a change of name of the 2nd Battalion of the Nova Scotia Highlanders back to the "Cape Breton Highlanders." The amalgamation will not be "undone" unless they also unravel the shared perpetuations and battle honours.



Going back to pre-merger honours and perpetuations wouldn't be all that tough.  Any earned during the time of merger, probably none, maybe one, would go to both.  Speaking of renaming 2nd NSR - that seems to have gone off the rails.  McKay announced it 7 months ago.

I gave the probable reasons for decisions and ultimately the decision was made for real reasons, not on a whim.


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## Michael OLeary (7 Aug 2011)

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> I gave the probable reasons for decisions and ultimately the decision was made for real reasons, not on a whim.



And my response showed that they were not required changes based on a necessity to match historical precedents. Someone at the time decided to make the changes, and they could have easily chosen not to do so without repercussions.

Note that this was the original question:



			
				Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> 2) Are not tartans treated the same as battle honours?



Compared to the level of attention given to the selection, request and granting of battle honours, there is no comparison. 

While some things will always required a degree of approval by higher headquarters (badge designs, uniform accoutrements, etc,), other things (camp flags, colours, mottos, etc.) can be changed by the decision of a CO or regimental committee. No-one called any of these decisions a "whim" and it would be nice to believe that every such decision had a sound regimental background. But I highly doubt that you can categorically establish that no decision on any regimental accoutrement in the history of the Canadian Army was made because one man decided it would be so and that each has a sound historical military basis. Then again, there was one western infantry regiment that started out with a flower on its cap badge because of someone's wife's name.


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## Dennis Ruhl (8 Aug 2011)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Then again, there was one western infantry regiment that started out with a flower on its cap badge because of someone's wife's name.



When it adopted the flower it was an Eastern unit raised by a Montrealer and nominally resident in Ottawa.  When it moved West it lost the flower.


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## Pusser (8 Aug 2011)

I thought it lost the flower because he divorced her...


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