# Ships Team Diver badge on Army DEU's?



## canucksfan250 (7 Apr 2021)

I am wondering if I can put a ships team diver badge on an army uniform?  I was in the navy and transferred to army...  Can I place the STD badge on the army uniform?  As well SSI goes on sleeve... correct?

Thanks!


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## dapaterson (7 Apr 2021)

Yes to both your questions - and carry a copy of the dress regs with you for all the WOs, MWOs and CWOs who will challenge you


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## Journeyman (7 Apr 2021)

And you may wish to refer to it as a "Dive badge" rather than an "STD badge."


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## canucksfan250 (10 Apr 2021)

Journeyman said:


> And you may wish to refer to it as a "Dive badge" rather than an "STD badge."


I like stds though


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## canucksfan250 (10 Apr 2021)

Journeyman said:


> And you may wish to refer to it as a "Dive badge" rather than an "STD badge."





dapaterson said:


> Yes to both your questions - and carry a copy of the dress regs with you for all the WOs, MWOs and CWOs who will challenge you


Thanks!


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## Journeyman (10 Apr 2021)

canucksfan250 said:


> I like stds though


You'll love Gagetown.


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## daftandbarmy (10 Apr 2021)

Journeyman said:


> You'll love Gagetown.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (10 Apr 2021)

Just to be clear on vocab. here: Ships have Dive Teams, but the qualification is "Ship Diver", not Ships Team Diver. The whole is by opposition to the more advanced - full time divers trade: Clearance Divers.

And Journeyman, it's "diver" not dive. The badge that says you dive is the submariner badge . Then again, I suppose any badge that indicates you are in Gagetown ... or Shilo, is a "dive" badge.


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## SeaKingTacco (10 Apr 2021)

Oldgateboatdriver said:


> Just to be clear on vocab. here: Ships have Dive Teams, but the qualification is "Ship Diver", not Ships Team Diver. The whole is by opposition to the more advanced - full time divers trade: Clearance Divers.
> 
> And Journeyman, it's "diver" not dive. The badge that says you dive is the submariner badge . Then again, I suppose any badge that indicates you are in Gagetown ... or Shilo, is a "dive" badge.


Harsh. True, but still harsh.


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## Journeyman (11 Apr 2021)

Oldgateboatdriver said:


> And Journeyman, it's "diver" not dive.


Truth be told, I always thought of it as the "escargot fork & sushi" badge.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (11 Apr 2021)

Those are basic diver qualifications only if you attended a West coast  diver course - on the East coast, it's lobster tails and Jig fishing.


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## Journeyman (11 Apr 2021)

Oldgateboatdriver said:


> Those are basic diver qualifications only if you attended a West coast  diver course - on the East coast, it's lobster tails and Jig fishing.


Ah, there you go; my Diver/Diver Supervisor courses were both at FDU(P)


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## medicineman (11 Apr 2021)

Oldgateboatdriver said:


> Those are basic diver qualifications only if you attended a West coast  diver course - on the East coast, it's lobster tails and Jig fishing.


Used to be crabbing on the West coast until someone got caught...


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## dapaterson (11 Apr 2021)

Oldgateboatdriver said:


> Those are basic diver qualifications only if you attended a West coast  diver course - on the East coast, it's lobster tails and Jig fishing.


I think the lobster has been put on ice since the court martials for poaching - or are you saying that the East Coast navy never learns?


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## Navy_Pete (12 Apr 2021)

dapaterson said:


> I think the lobster has been put on ice since the court martials for poaching - or are you saying that the East Coast navy never learns?


Well, we keep getting failures on items that are past their PM date for change out, and still have PM not being done to change the item out before it fails, so...


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## canucksfan250 (10 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> Yes to both your questions - and carry a copy of the dress regs with you for all the WOs, MWOs and CWOs who will challenge you


Digging up a old post, but do you happen to know which article of the dress regs say that you can?  I tried looking but I couldn’t find a specific one


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## dangerboy (10 Nov 2021)

Chapter 3 addresses specialist skill badges.  While it does not say so directly you don't lose your specialist skill badge if you change elements if you are qualified to wear a dive badge you wear it no matter what element you are in.


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## medicineman (10 Nov 2021)

canucksfan250 said:


> Digging up a old post, but do you happen to know which article of the dress regs say that you can?  I tried looking but I couldn’t find a specific one


Can't remember article - suffice to say, it's a Hazardous Duty Qualification that can be worn on any environmental uniform.  Ex-Army WO here - I'd NEVER question anyone wearing it, as long as they can attest to being qualified to wear it.   Seen a number of people that obtained it as non-engineer Army folks to put towards Clearance Diver OT"s.

dangerboy beat me to it...


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## daftandbarmy (10 Nov 2021)

dangerboy said:


> Chapter 3 addresses specialist skill badges.  While it does not say so directly you don't lose your specialist skill badge if you change elements if you are qualified to wear a dive badge you wear it *with pride *no matter what element you are in.



Well said. Added a bit to that.


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## canucksfan250 (10 Nov 2021)

dangerboy said:


> Chapter 3 addresses specialist skill badges.  While it does not say so directly you don't lose your specialist skill badge if you change elements if you are qualified to wear a dive badge you wear it no matter what element you are in.


Awesome, ok wasn’t sure if it said it specifically. Thank you


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## canucksfan250 (10 Nov 2021)

medicineman said:


> Can't remember article - suffice to say, it's a Hazardous Duty Qualification that can be worn on any environmental uniform.  Ex-Army WO here - I'd NEVER question anyone wearing it, as long as they can attest to being qualified to wear it.   Seen a number of people that obtained it as non-engineer Army folks to put towards Clearance Diver OT"s.
> 
> dangerboy beat me to it...


Awesome, first time wearing my army DEU since my switch tomorrow, so just wanted some reinforcement before I head in tomorrow. Thanks


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Nov 2021)

CFAO 55-10 -- The Creation and Awarding of Canadian Forces Flying and Specialist Skill Badges used to be the reference indicating criteria for  permanent retention of such badges.  I don't know if that order is still in effect, but it was likely superceded as per the forward to the current dress instructions



> 3.  A-DH-265-000/AG-001 is effective upon receipt and supersedes all dress policy and rules previously issued as a manual, supplement, order, or instruction, except:
> a.  QR&O Chapter 17 – Dress and Appearance;
> b.  QR&O Chapter 18 – Honours;
> c.  CFAO 17-1, Safety and protective equipment - Motorcycles, Motor scooters, Mopeds, Bicycles and Snowmobiles; and



I think the previous version of the Dress Instructions included some of the detail that had been in CFAO 55-10 but it appears that the latest version has dropped much of that.

While CFAO 55-10 did provide instruction as to permanent retention of the various badges, it did so on the basis of each badge (or category of badges) outlining the criteria for award and as well as the criteria for forfeit of some badges (e.g. parachutist, EOD).  I include (as illustration only, not as official reference) an extract from that CFAO - a copy I have from an old, out of date version on CD.  Para 29 pertains to your question.

CLEARANCE DIVER BADGE
25.    A CF clearance diver badge may be awarded to a member who has either:
     a.   successfully completed a clearance diving officers' qualifying
          course and has been classified a Maritime Surface and Sub-
          surface (MARS) (MOC 71D); or
     b.   successfully completed a clearance diver's qualifying course QL
          5A and remustered to Clearance Diver (MOC 341).
26.    Clearance diving officers and clearance divers are entitled to wear
the badge for the remainder of their service in the CF.

SHIP'S DIVER BADGE
27.    A CF ship's diver badge may be awarded to a member who has either:
     a.   successfully completed a ship's diver officer's qualifying course
          and been awarded OSQ BB; or
     b.   successfully completed a ship's diver qualifying course and been
          awarded OSQ TT.

COMBAT DIVER BADGE
28.    A combat diver's badge may be awarded to a member who has successfully
completed a combat diver's qualifying course and been awarded OSQ 45.B5, 041.23
or 041.24.

29.    Members awarded the CF ship's diver badge and the combat diver's
badge may wear the badge, subject to the following:
     a.   it will only be worn so long as the diver remains medically fit
          and maintains the qualification by completing the required
          periodic requalification courses;
     b.   short-term medical unfitness does not constitute grounds for the
          removal of the badge; and
     c.   *divers who maintain their qualification for a continuous period
          of four years will be entitled to wear the badge for the
          remainder of their service in the CF.*


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## QV (10 Nov 2021)

Blackadder1916 said:


> 29.    Members awarded the CF ship's diver badge and the combat diver's
> badge may wear the badge, subject to the following:
> a. it will only be worn so long as the diver remains medically fit
> and maintains the qualification by completing the required
> ...



This is such a CAF thing to do to it's people. Well done CAF.


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## canucksfan250 (10 Nov 2021)

Blackadder1916 said:


> CFAO 55-10 -- The Creation and Awarding of Canadian Forces Flying and Specialist Skill Badges used to be the reference indicating criteria for  permanent retention of such badges.  I don't know if that order is still in effect, but it was likely superceded as per the forward to the current dress instructions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm interesting, ok thank you for pulling up this old ref. Who knows what is current but I doubt anyone will question the badge especially since the new dress regs are so vague. 

Thank you!


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## dangerboy (10 Nov 2021)

canucksfan250 said:


> Hmm interesting, ok thank you for pulling up this old ref. Who knows what is current but I doubt anyone will question the badge especially since the new dress regs are so vague.


If someone does question you, you have found out who the asshole is


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## daftandbarmy (12 Nov 2021)

I attended Remembrance Day with a guy - who has been alot of places and done alot of things - who keeps photos of certificates he's received for various awards on his phone, like the AIC course certificate (for the white wings) etc, because he just got tired of being challenged.

He said 'the only ones who are real assholes about the whole thing are the Canadian Airborne Regiment guys'


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