# Irregular Enrollment: Item 5e  [Merged]



## Patrick Park

I‘m in a very tough predicament right now. I‘m determined to join the CF Army Infantry, however I‘m taking medication on a regular basis. Now I have to take the medication for my health, it‘s just a pill in the morning and a pill at night but I‘m afraid if I tell the CF medics at my medical test that I need this medication then they‘ll turn me down. Even though I KNOW as long as I carry a small container of my medication their is no need for special treatment and their is no risks with me. I was thinking about maybe just keeping the information to myself and not telling the doctors. As I‘m sure they would make a big deal about it when really it‘s not a big deal. What‘re your thoughts guys? I know it‘s not advisable to keep any medical info from doctors, but I can‘t take no for an answer.

Thanx.


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## dano

You should not keep this from the doctors. Just tell them that you take medication for so and so conditions. Then theyâ€™ll most likely  ask you to go to you‘re family doctor and get referral notes stating that what you take and have is not serious and that you don‘t go like suicidal, blackout or something to that extent. It will be tougher because you gotta deal with that, but what ever does not kill you makes you stronger.


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## jonsey

Please DO NOT hold back the information. When they find out (and they will, guaranteed), not only will they take into consideration the fact that you have to take the pills (which may or may not prevent you from entering), but the fact that you basically lied to them. They will see you as dishonest and untrustworthy. You held back on that part, so who knows what else you held back on, or what else you‘re covering up. 

Not only that, but even if you did get in, yo‘re not allowed to take any meds with you, they have to be provided through the CF. They will confiscate any meds they find.

It‘s only a pill in the morning and one at night? That shouldn‘t be a problem. Just BE HONEST. 

If they say no, you can appeal the decision, and you can get a note from your doctor saying that it won‘t interfere with your duties.


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## Patrick Park

Jonsey, how would I go about appealing the decision if they say no?

Thanks guys


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## combat_medic

Patrick: knowing a little bit more about your condition than the others, it would be REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD to withold that kind of information. If you get in and they find out, which they will, sooner or later, you will not only be kicked out of the military for your lie, you can also be charged for it. 

Also, if you need to see a medic on military time, even for an unrelated complaint, they could give you medication that interferes with your current prescription, or could aggravate your condition, causing a myriad of adverse effects up to KILLING YOU!!!

Don‘t think they won‘t find out, they will, and you could be taking your life into your hands.


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## GrahamD

I just completed my medical a few weeks ago.  There was a sign on the wall that said intentionally holding back information during ANY portion of your recruitment process INCLUDING your medical history, is illegal and punishable by up to 2 years in prison.

I‘d wager that if they found out you lied, thereby breaking the law during your application process, that they would never hire you. Ever.


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## gj connors

Patrick, I‘m presently at a recruiting center doing medicals. Like combat_medic stated, given a a common medication, for example, on sick parade, for something simple as the common cold could have a detrimental effect on your health (from causing serious health issues to even death!) if you deny to medical personnel that you are not on any other meds. This is why every medic worth his/her salt doing sick parade will ask his/her patient:
a/ are you allergic to anything;
b/ do you have any other medical conditions; and
c/ ARE YOU TAKING ANY MEDICATIONS (prescription or over the counter meds/supplements etc)

The military as a whole, and medical personnel specifically, are concerned with the welfare of the individual and not just to make the "staus quo" in maintaining healthy bodies for the military.

The questions asked, and medical performed at the recruiting centers are not just determining whether or not an individual is medically fit for the Canadian Forces, but most specifically, that no undue harm or further deteroration of an applicant‘s health will be compromised by the physical and mental stresses of employment in the Canadian Forces.
   Health issues aside, when it is discovered that an individual has lied (and believe me, sooner or later it will) on his recruitment application, he/she will be determined to be an irregular enrolment (at the least) and be (again at the least)dismissed  from the Forces. And your own integrity will be called into question.
   I know this may sound a bit harsh, Patrick, but believe me, I highly recommend that you be as truthfully honest as you can when applying. You sound like an individual with a great set of personal values; maintain your own sense of intregrity and respect from others (if can‘t trust your own trench partner - your‘e totally screwed: you‘ll find there is no other sense of comradship or friendship than there is in the military). Take it from an old fart like myself; I had to wait six months because of a medical condition before starting basic at Cornwallis 22 years ago).

X031 @ 711(737)

Militi Succurrimus...We hasten To Aid The Soldier

Pro Patria...Work For Country


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## Bignose

I've been waiting for pay and training in the reserves since last October and my COC advises me I have an "irregular enrollment" on my file that needs to be resolved.
Is this something I should be worried about, or is it a simple admin issue that will be fixed with time? 
It sounded like a paperwork issue that required the CO's sign off and was done and re-submitted, but just a little concerned why it is taking so long.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## mariomike

Bignose said:
			
		

> I've been waiting for pay and training in the reserves since last October and my COC advises me I have an "irregular enrollment" on my file that needs to be resolved.



This is what the term means. It is not meant as advice. 

"Erroneous or Irregular Enrolment

Section 26 of the National Defence Act provides that any person who is erroneously or irregularly enrolled and receives pay as an officer or NCM is deemed to be an officer or NCM, as the case may be, regularly enrolled.

A person is erroneously or irregularly enrolled if they were not eligible for enrolment, e.g. the person was under age or was serving in a military force other than the CF.

Any alleged erroneous or irregular enrolment shall be immediately reported to the DMCA, who has exclusive authority to review it.":
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-1-eng.asp


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## medicineman

Irregular enrollments need to be investigated - sometimes they're from people failing to disclose medical information, administrative glitches or oversights.  Once sorted, they either get back on track or the person gets disenrolled.  It's a process - therefore it takes time.

MM


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## Bignose

Thanks for the info, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.


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## Kat Stevens

Bignose said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.



A policy that will serve you well many, many times in the years to come.  Best of luck.


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## BoomerRecruit

Hello all. I’ve read through a ton of threads / posts and found a lot of valuable information. Thanks to all the knowledgeable forum members who are posting these replies!

My situation has similarities to many other posts so I pretty much know I’ll have to wait and see what the recruiting medical officer has to say but I do have a couple questions. 

First here is the background. Many, many years ago I joined a reserve infantry unit just before my 17th birthday. I was involved for only a few months since when basic started I realized I wasn’t really ready to handle service yet and therefore VR’d. This was because I was suffering from depression and anxiety. At that time I wasn’t being treated with medication. A couple years later I applied for the regular  forces. I passed all the aptitude tests but subsequently failed medical due to my history of depression and being treated with Prozac. 

Fast forward a decade or three (yes I’m not a younger male anymore) and I’m making another attempt at the reserves. I’ve passed the force evaluation at bronze level, scored high on CFAT and medically I’m good (passed vision, hearing, etc.) EXCEPT for my previous history and the fact that I was prescribed Xanax about 1 year ago. 

Here are the questions. 

1. During the recruiting process I may have omitted some of my medical history as well as my past regular forces application for fear that I’d be instantly denied eligibility. I know I’m going to be told it’s best to be completely honest so I plan on telling my recruiter the details shortly. Will my initial reluctance to inform them of these details completely kill my chances of getting an enrollment offer?

2. Since becoming fit for the last 12 years I’ve found that was also the key to my mental health. I’ve not taken an SSRI in well over a decade and the Xanax that was prescribed (.5 mg x 28) hasn’t been touched since I filled it roughly one year ago. I only really got that as more of a sleep aid. What sort of supporting evidence can I collect to show that my anxiety and depression are no longer an issue?


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## kratz

[quote author=RCAHopeful]
Here are the questions. 

1. During the recruiting process I may have omitted some of my medical history as well as my past regular forces application for fear that I’d be instantly denied eligibility. I know I’m going to be told it’s best to be completely honest so I plan on telling my recruiter the details shortly. Will my initial reluctance to inform them of these details completely kill my chances of getting an enrollment offer?

2. Since becoming fit for the last 12 years I’ve found that was also the key to my mental health. I’ve not taken an SSRI in well over a decade and the Xanax that was prescribed (.5 mg x 28) hasn’t been touched since I filled it roughly one year ago. I only really got that as more of a sleep aid. What sort of supporting evidence can I collect to show that my anxiety and depression are no longer an issue?
[/quote]

During the recruiting process, a Verification of Former Service (VFS) will be completed. Your past medical issues and application will be discovered. If not, you have lied during your recruiting application. So if you are enrolled, when this lie is discovered, you will be faced with an Item 1d or 5e release.

If your medical condition is caught by the RMO, the rejection letter will detail what you need to do next. Sometimes, personal heath simply does not allow enrollment in the CAF.


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## BoomerRecruit

kratz said:
			
		

> During the recruiting process, a Verification of Former Service (VFS) will be completed. Your past medical issues and application will be discovered. If not, you have lied during your recruiting application. So if you are enrolled, when this lie is discovered, you will be faced with an Item 1d or 5e release.



Thanks for the quick reply. I suspected as much. Since I only started the process two weeks ago I'm hoping I can correct my error with recruiting before everything is fully submitted. I'm certainly nowhere near being enrolled.



			
				kratz said:
			
		

> If your medical condition is caught by the RMO, the rejection letter will detail what you need to do next. Sometimes, personal heath simply does not allow enrolment in the CAF.



I'm going to be completely up front about my past mental health issues. As stated before, my issues with depression / anxiety are well behind me now and I've not needed treatment for well over a decade. I also have a DND 2870 from my family physician stating she feels I have no 'Resulting limitations with regards to physical and mental capacity, considering a member of the Canadian Forces may work under conditions of extreme physical / mental stress in remote areas'. Again, I know the opinion of my own doctor doesn't carry a ton of weight. I'm more curious as to the process after this is submitted. Will I have any opportunity to present a case?


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## BeyondTheNow

> First here is the background. Many, many years ago I joined a reserve infantry unit just before my 17th birthday. I was involved for only a few months since when basic started I realized I wasn’t really ready to handle service yet and therefore VR’d. This was because I was suffering from depression and anxiety. At that time I wasn’t being treated with medication. A couple years later I applied for the regular  forces. I passed all the aptitude tests but subsequently failed medical due to my history of depression and being treated with Prozac.



You said you weren’t treated with any meds, then you said you didn’t pass the medical portion because you were on Prozac. Do you mean you started the meds during the time between VRing and then reapplying?


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## BoomerRecruit

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> You said you weren’t treated with any meds, then you said you didn’t pass the medical portion because you were on Prozac. Do you mean you started the meds during the time between VRing and then reapplying?



That's correct. I started the meds when I was 19 and applied less than a year after that. This was about two years after leaving the reserves. All of this occurred many, many years ago.


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