# Naval Dress Questions



## Nuggs (31 Aug 2017)

Appologies, I've been up in the NCR for a bit now at a primarily Army unit and am a little out of touch with dress changes.

Couple of questions:

1. Boarding party crests. Are they not still supposed to be removed when no longer part of a team?

2. Belts and NCDs. For years when I was at sea everyone either wore a CF issue belt or a black leather belt. Now apparently there is a black web belt with black buckle. Apparently it's not available via my local supply. Is this the only approved belt now? Or are the brass on brass, old leather belts, and the belts with unit / branch insignia still allowed.

References appreciated.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## mariomike (31 Aug 2017)

Nuggs said:
			
		

> References appreciated.



This may, or may not, help,

Guide to Naval Orders of Dress  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/93984.0


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## jollyjacktar (31 Aug 2017)

I'm wearing a leather belt on a daily basis.  No one has questioned it.  Can't speak to added crests and doo dads as I just run with my name tag only.  Won't wear the SSI.


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## Lumber (31 Aug 2017)

Responses in yellow:



			
				Nuggs said:
			
		

> Appologies, I've been up in the NCR for a bit now at a primarily Army unit and am a little out of touch with dress changes.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 
> ...


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## NavalMoose (1 Sep 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I'm wearing a leather belt on a daily basis.  No one has questioned it.  Can't speak to added crests and doo dads as I just run with my name tag only.  Won't wear the SSI.



Does it not mean you are out of the rig of the day if you don't wear your SSI?  Just curious.


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## jollyjacktar (1 Sep 2017)

I wear the bloody thing in salt and pepper.  I had heard that the cloth badge we just removed from the CF tunic can be put onto the NCD jacket.  If so, I'm not going there, just my name tape.


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## Navy_Pete (1 Sep 2017)

Yeah, that was a recent change with the tunic, which was ironically just after I finally got mine sewn on (was using a safety pin for a while that worked because the crest is pretty stiff).

If you draw the new NCDs there is a bunch of flair as well; I left the fleet in Jan but there were about 3 generations of jackets floating around, so it was funny to see the older ones with the basic ships crest and name tape next to a brand new one with ships crest, name tape, huge naval jack, canada flag, random 'operation crests' (most for short exercises), the SSI and whatever other qualifications someone has, it looks like some kind of Mr. Potato head version where the kids stick on patches everywhere.


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## jollyjacktar (1 Sep 2017)

They could always come out with a Boy Scout sash for all the added badges and shit.   :nod:


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## Navy_Pete (1 Sep 2017)

Or a vest!  Glad this guy found work in the naval dress committee after this movie was done.  ;D ;


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Sep 2017)

Or, since it is an "operational" dress, perhaps more of a Klingon sash?


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## FSTO (1 Sep 2017)

BADGES! We need more stinking BADGES!


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## Sailorwest (3 Sep 2017)

its fun working at Chotchkies. I have benignly delayed getting a new NCD jacket and still have one with a bluish patina because it still fits


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## jollyjacktar (3 Sep 2017)

Damn it OGBD, I can only give you points once a day.  Another good post.   



			
				FSTO said:
			
		

> Then join the fricken CG if you want overtime. (My apologies)
> 
> The OT or lack thereof isn't a dissatifier , I have my new trade and direction we're going to pick my ass.  Thank you very much.
> 
> ...



As I said before, those of us who have to put on these parades to cheer you up don't necessarily get the same thrill you get at the head of the line.  Sorry.  I could riposte that you could switch to the GGFG if you want so badly to put on public drill displays.


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## Navy_Pete (3 Sep 2017)

I don't mind the bling so much on the tunics; it's the junk on the NCDs that needs to go.  It's a work jacket that is also supposed to be fire retardant, so how about we stop covering it with flammable velcro patches and bunch of badges, most of which are irrelevant to the function of the jacket.  The huge white naval jack is probably the most impractical part; we hammer the juniour sailors to always bring their jacket everywhere (as a protective second layer in case you do run across a fire) then we slap a huge white flag on the shoulder that they will get ripped apart for if it gets dirty, which it will tend to do if you carry it around the ship with you as directed.


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## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2017)

How will people know that you're RCN if you don't have 15 things and a giant white ensign that say RCN?


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## Stoker (3 Sep 2017)

I was at a town hall on Fri with the Kraken and he said the new trial NCD's are being shipped and the trial will only be for 4 weeks. So another new order of dress is coming it seems.


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## Nuggs (3 Sep 2017)

Those the new ninja black pajamas?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## FSTO (3 Sep 2017)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> I don't mind the bling so much on the tunics; it's the junk on the NCDs that needs to go.  It's a work jacket that is also supposed to be fire retardant, so how about we stop covering it with flammable velcro patches and bunch of badges, most of which are irrelevant to the function of the jacket.  The huge white naval jack is probably the most impractical part; we hammer the juniour sailors to always bring their jacket everywhere (as a protective second layer in case you do run across a fire) then we slap a huge white flag on the shoulder that they will get ripped apart for if it gets dirty, which it will tend to do if you carry it around the ship with you as directed.


Well if they quit trying to make it into a walking out dress and keep it as shipboard only clothing we wouldn't have to put so many pieces of flare on it to ID us as RCN.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Sep 2017)

I've never understood walking out dress.  The army and air force go home in their operational dress.


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## Stoker (4 Sep 2017)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> I don't mind the bling so much on the tunics; it's the junk on the NCDs that needs to go.  It's a work jacket that is also supposed to be fire retardant, so how about we stop covering it with flammable velcro patches and bunch of badges, most of which are irrelevant to the function of the jacket.  The huge white naval jack is probably the most impractical part; we hammer the juniour sailors to always bring their jacket everywhere (as a protective second layer in case you do run across a fire) then we slap a huge white flag on the shoulder that they will get ripped apart for if it gets dirty, which it will tend to do if you carry it around the ship with you as directed.



When the dress committee came out with all the new bling I really thought they were joking. Not all the bling is actually authorized officially or supported through clothing stores.


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## Old EO Tech (4 Sep 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I've never understood walking out dress.  The army and air force go home in their operational dress.



The Army did used to have walking out dress, but it was your dress when you went on course off base, not what you were required to wear home after work...

Jon


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## dimsum (4 Sep 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I've never understood walking out dress.  The army and air force go home in their operational dress.



Half of my section leaves in PT gear.  They leave their uniforms in lockers at the hangar.


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## Eye In The Sky (4 Sep 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Half of my section leaves in PT gear.  They leave their uniforms in lockers at the hangar.



Oh, that's a no-no in the Ditch unless you are going to actually do PT.   ^-^  (now the *is it actually enforced* aspect is a different topic...).

You guys have sections?  Not in crews?


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## NavyShooter (4 Sep 2017)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> When the dress committee came out with all the new bling I really thought they were joking. Not all the bling is actually authorized officially *or supported through clothing stores.*



**THIS*

I work in BLog Halifax right now.  

We do not have the ability to provide the 'bling' to any sailors here in Halifax.  Anyone who has it has either spent their own coin, or their unit has bought it.  

Esquimalt apparently did a one-time-buy of 'bling' but nothing sustained.

We do not have the new model uniforms, nor the crests, nor the time with the tailor to handle modifying all of the uniforms currently available.

Some ships have been having their deck departments work on this as a solution.

In direct discussion with my unit Chief (BLog Halifax Cox'n) we are not (and I am not) wearing the new layout of 'bling' until it is available for general issue to all the troops.  I have specifically ordered my sailors not to modify their uniform, nor to spend their own money on buying the flags/bling/etc.

The Tailor in Dockyard turns away 3-5 people per day (or more) who want us to modify their uniform to the 'new standard.'  

Nope.  

I'm not old school, I just don't want to see my troops out of pocket for something that should be a nationally funded initiative.  (Note also, units procuring these items out of their unit budget are actually breaking purchasing rules to do so....or so say the Loggies that I work with.)

NS


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## Halifax Tar (5 Sep 2017)

NavyShooter said:
			
		

> **THIS*
> (Note also, units procuring these items out of their unit budget are actually breaking purchasing rules to do so....or so say the Loggies that I work with.)



I am still new to LPO but my understanding is that NP Funds are ok to be used to procure this "bling" but public funds are a no-no.


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## Lumber (5 Sep 2017)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I am still new to LPO but my understanding is that NP Funds are ok to be used to procure this "bling" but public funds are a no-no.



Incorrect. The CO is free to use his O&M budget to procure these items if he wishes.


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## Navy_Pete (5 Sep 2017)

A good example is the ship's ballcaps; those are bought with the ship's budget and issued when you get posted in.  Most Coxns are reasonable enough to replace them once they get worn and faded as well rather then get the sailor to buy one from the canteen.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (5 Sep 2017)

Aren't you supposed to have an "old worn and faded" headdress to wear at sea so that everybody onboard knows you're an Old Sea Dog ???


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## Halifax Tar (5 Sep 2017)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Incorrect. The CO is free to use his O&M budget to procure these items if he wishes.



I stand corrected.


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## Stoker (5 Sep 2017)

I know that NAVRES units were sent Velcro and patches and told to have their jackets done. At my unit we are expected to look alike and went to a CPF to have the jackets tailored and had to buy the patches. Some of these patches are quite expensive. It would be almost better to have a embroidery machine to produce the patches locally.


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## FSTO (5 Sep 2017)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> I know that NAVRES units were sent Velcro and patches and told to have their jackets done. At my unit we are expected to look alike and went to a CPF to have the jackets tailored and had to buy the patches. Some of these patches are quite expensive. It would be almost better to have a embroidery machine to produce the patches locally.



Or, just stay with the name-tag and your ships crest.


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## Stoker (5 Sep 2017)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Or, just stay with the name-tag and your ships crest.



I hear you however this was a collective dress committee decision. I agree with some of it however I think its a bit too much. I like the mission patches and the SSI but the rest is kind of over the top.


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## dapaterson (5 Sep 2017)

Nuggs said:
			
		

> Why in the hell are we trying to dress up operational dress? I don't see the Army putting jump wings on cadpat.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



Wait for it...


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## Nuggs (5 Sep 2017)

Well this "belt buckle / boarding party crest" is sufficiently off the rails...

Long story short....

Boarding party crest, no nothing has changed. It get removed if you're not active on a team.

Belt buckle, maybe I'll try and find direction on the black one.


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## McG (5 Sep 2017)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> I hear you however this was a collective dress committee decision.


Perhaps the problem is the fact that CAF has standing dress committees with the only responsibility being to tinker with dress?  Could the CAF disband the committees or mandate that they meet not more frequently than triennially?


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## Stoker (5 Sep 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> Perhaps the problem is the fact that CAF has standing dress committees with the only responsibility being to tinker with dress?  Could the CAF disband the committees or mandate that they meet not more frequently than triennially?




I assume other elements have the same kind of thing? It seems though its a case of the good ideas club at times.


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## Journeyman (6 Sep 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> But you only get to wear 2 specialty badges, so you're not showing off.  :


i.e. - the Canadian Army Sergeant Major has two badges, so there is a _requirement_  to wear up to two.  :not-again:


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## mariomike (6 Sep 2017)

See also,

Sea Service Insignia  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/95432.50
6 pages.


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## PuckChaser (6 Sep 2017)

Monsoon said:
			
		

> It's almost as though there were very real differences in how the various components train and operate, and that passing judgement on one from a basis of experience in another might end up making the person doing the analysis look ignorant...



Time training is time spent getting ready to do the business. Doesn't matter if that training time is 20,000 feet over an air weapons range, 5 feet deep in a trench line in Wainwright/Gagetown/Petawawa, or sailing around the ocean gaining currencies after a refit. You're being awarded a medal for literally being capable of going to sea. You know what the actual incentive the CAF gives you for doing that? SDA. Much like I get paid more for being in a field unit and having to do field stuff, you get paid more for being on a ship and going to sea.  The fact that you think you need a uniform device to show people that you've sailed while wearing a RCN uniform means that you think so poorly of the readiness/availability of the RCN that just the uniform alone isn't enough to signify someone has more time at sea than in port. 

As noted earlier, SSI is just a big male sexual organ measuring contest to see who is "the better sailor", when realistically the rank and position should denote experience and trust that the sailor can/has done their job, and done it well. Giant white ensigns on uniforms, SSIs, ordering all shore-posted pers to wear NCDs smacks of an identity crisis and a constant feeling of inferiority instead of focusing on being a quiet professional and letting the myriad of news articles from Op CARIBBE and CTF-150 (among many others) do the talking.


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## Stoker (6 Sep 2017)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Time training is time spent getting ready to do the business. Doesn't matter if that training time is 20,000 feet over an air weapons range, 5 feet deep in a trench line in Wainwright/Gagetown/Petawawa, or sailing around the ocean gaining currencies after a refit. You're being awarded a medal for literally being capable of going to sea. You know what the actual incentive the CAF gives you for doing that? SDA. Much like I get paid more for being in a field unit and having to do field stuff, you get paid more for being on a ship and going to sea.  The fact that you think you need a uniform device to show people that you've sailed while wearing a RCN uniform means that you think so poorly of the readiness/availability of the RCN that just the uniform alone isn't enough to signify someone has more time at sea than in port.
> 
> As noted earlier, SSI is just a big male sexual organ measuring contest to see who is "the better sailor", when realistically the rank and position should denote experience and trust that the sailor can/has done their job, and done it well. Giant white ensigns on uniforms, SSIs, ordering all shore-posted pers to wear NCDs smacks of an identity crisis and a constant feeling of inferiority instead of focusing on being a quiet professional and letting the myriad of news articles from Op CARIBBE and CTF-150 (among many others) do the talking.



Puckchaser I suspect you are really a closet sailor with all the kind words about the RCN uniform based on your insightful comments. Have a great navy day.


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## PuckChaser (6 Sep 2017)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Puckchaser I suspect you are really a closet sailor with all the kind words about the RCN uniform based on your insightful comments. Have a great navy day.



Its a new CAF. If I'm not one of the 58 genders or a closet something, I won't get very far in my career.


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