# Pilot Training Failure / Washout



## Barracuda13 (22 Aug 2006)

Hi , 
i tried to search an answer for my question on the forums but couldn t find an answer , hopefully i can get a short answer , and making a forum admin mad was the last thing on my mind  that being said my question on ceotp pilot is; 
If you get selected for pilot , it ideally takes 2 to 3 years to get your wings right.. if you fail during Basic or at any portion of flight training, are you obligated to stay and transfer to another MOC or can you just leave because you enrolled under CEOTP Pilot only. the 9 years plus 3 for finishing school so 12 year contract is signed after getting the wings? 
Thank you


Bora


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## Zoomie (25 Aug 2006)

Ok - so far no one has made an educated response.  I am not a CEOTP entry plan pilot, but I will attempt to answer the initial poster's question (instead of ridicule him and waste bandwidth).

If you fail out of any phase of pilot training and have no interest in continuing on in the CF - you can leave.  A caveat to this statement being that the Basic Engagement for any member of the CF (after graduation from Basic) is 2 years.  Once you have 2 years in and no longer want to continue on - you can submit your VR and get out within 6 months.

Your obligatory contract begins upon receipt of wings.  It does not matter if training delays caused a 2 year training time-table to become 4 years.


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## Barracuda13 (25 Aug 2006)

Thanks Zoomie..


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## Lumber (6 Dec 2009)

Howdy,

I have a friend who has completed their application process, and has applied for Pilot and ACSO. We were wondering, however, whether or not the CF will offer them an alternative trade if they fail air crew. Their first and foremost goal is to become an Officer, and if they have a competitive application, but fail air crew, will he CF take them anyhow? 

Cheers,


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## Loachman (6 Dec 2009)

Do you mean Aircrew Selection, or courses?


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## Lumber (7 Dec 2009)

Air Crew Selection


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## Loachman (7 Dec 2009)

I would presume that, so long as he/she met the requirements for other professions and vacancies existed, they would be offered something else. I see no reason to turf somebody merely because something excludes them from being aircrew as that something can be completely irrelevant for anything else.

Apparently, nobody with more current info than mine (I went through that over three decades ago) has noticed this or is willing to pipe up, but until my presumption has been either confirmed or exploded I'll offer the usual advice: check with the recruiting centre.

Most of those who did not complete flying training when I went through were offered other things, too, unless officer (non)development or some such was a factor.

'Twas not for naught that Portage was known as the "Navigator Selection Centre".


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## Lumber (10 Jan 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Apparently, nobody with more current info than mine (I went through that over three decades ago) has noticed this or is willing to pipe up, but until my presumption has been either confirmed or exploded I'll offer the usual advice: check with the recruiting centre.



Just sending this thread to the top of the most recent list in hopes of getting, as stated here, more then just presumptions.  If my friend applied for ACSO and Pilot (and nothing else), and fails air crew, will they offer them perhaps AirLog, or AirInt?


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## brian_k (11 Jan 2010)

> We were wondering, however, whether or not the CF will offer them an alternative trade if they fail air crew.


When I did aircrew selection everyone had to write the Nav exam (yes I know that nav is no longer a trade) and I was told by the ACS officer that this was because if we failed the pilot test that we would probably be offered a different trade by the recruiting center. So therefore it was easier to have us do both test so we didnt have to return to air crew selection if we went back and asked for Nav.  If you talk to a recruiter and I am wrong let me know so I don't go starting rumors. 



> Their first and foremost goal is to become an Officer...


I could be reading this wrong but if your friend really wants to do something in the military would be equally happy with another trade besides pilot make sure you tell him about the huge back log of pilots and massive wait times. It is a painfully long wait especially when you see people in other trades becoming trade qualified and you are only at the half way mark in your wait for moose jaw. The waits are even longer for some entry plans.


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## aesop081 (11 Jan 2010)

brian_k said:
			
		

> we didnt have to return to air crew selection if we went back and asked for Nav.



ACSO-only applicants do not go to Trenton for aircrew selection.


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## brian_k (11 Jan 2010)

> ACSO-only applicants do not go to Trenton for aircrew selection.



Where do they do the selection now and is it still that crazy fast math test? You say ACSO-only but if you have Pilot and ACSO as your choices do they do anything besides that sim in trenton? Also my point was a bit out of date but I was just trying to say that they used to give the Nav test, whether or not Nav had even been one of your choices, because you would probably be offered some other MOC's if you failed the pilot ACS.


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## aesop081 (11 Jan 2010)

brian_k said:
			
		

> Where do they do the selection now and is it still that crazy fast math test?



They get processed localy like any other applicant.



> You say ACSO-only but if you have Pilot and ACSO as your choices do they do anything besides that sim in trenton?



The CAPSS and the ACSO exams. Everyone that goes to Trenton does both no matter if they applied for "pilot only" or "pilot and ACSO".



> Also my point was a bit out of date but I was just trying to say that they used to give the Nav test,



The ACSO test is still administered in Trenton but not to folks who applied only for ACSO. Those folks do not get sent to Trenton in the first place.


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## MAJONES (13 Jan 2010)

The application form has room to select 3 MOCs.  If there is no third MOC selected there will be no automatic job offer if the applicant does not qualify for the first 2 choices.  That being said, when I was working at the recruiting centre, it was no big deal to change MOC choices on the fly (the only tricky ones were Pilot, ACSO, MARS and MP because they all had to go through some additional screening/selection).  If your friend does not get selected Plt or ACSO it should be no great difficulty to call up the MCC and ask to be considered for another officer trade.  Your friend will have to take the initiative to get that ball rolling; don't expect the CFRC to call him up and offer him another trade if he has not indicated an interested in one on his application.


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## Lumber (15 Jan 2010)

Thanks a lot for all the info/advice. Just to be safe, my friend put down AirLog as their third choice.

Cheers


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