# rucksack and sleeping bag



## solid1191 (11 Apr 2004)

when i went for a hike the other day with my 82 pattern ruck and sleeping bag ( canadian one) the sleeping bag kept loping to one side. As if one side was heavier than the other. This was a real pain i had to stop every 10min and fix it. Did i pack my sleeping bag wrong? am i suppost to roll one sleeping bag over the other or place them sideby side? someone help i really dont like having to fix my bag every 10min on a hike
thanks


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## Pte. Bloggins (11 Apr 2004)

I was always taught not to roll them, just to stuff both sleeping bags in, then tighten the valise are far as it‘ll go. (In a hurry, you won‘t want to be wasting time rolling sleeping bags). Also, ensure that you tighten the straps holding the valise to the rucksack VERY tightly. That way, the stuff shouldn‘t be moving around.


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## solid1191 (11 Apr 2004)

ah, i should try stuffing it, no matter how hard i tighten it still gets loose any way to fix that


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## Tpr.Orange (11 Apr 2004)

Just make sure when tightening your not just tightening the top but the side strings also


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## AlphaCharlie (11 Apr 2004)

Side strings are very important for size... the bigger the valise is the harder it will be to secure.

I tighten my valise as tight at both strings can go, then I slap it into my ruck and pull on those straps until they won‘t move anymore. Also, make sure the valise is as centered as possible.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Apr 2004)

The idea behind stuffing vs rolling, is that feathers won‘t be so compressed and the air can circulate throughout the bag while in the valise better. Helps dry the sweating thing out.


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## AlphaCharlie (11 Apr 2004)

also on the note of stuffing vs rolling... 

When you roll (if you roll the same way) it puts stress on the same creases ALL the time, whereas if you stuff it doesn‘t put undo stress on any part of sleeping bag....


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## PriceCHofO (11 Apr 2004)

How much kit do you have in your valise? If you just have an inner and outer in there, it might just not be packed tight enough. I have my ground sheet, bivy bag, ranger blanket, inner, outer, and flannel liner all in my valise, which fills it out nicely and makes it easier to secure.


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## Sh0rtbUs (11 Apr 2004)

I‘ve got my inner/outer, liner ground sheet and air mattress in mine.


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## AlphaCharlie (11 Apr 2004)

I‘ve got:

Ground sheet
bivy
inner
outter
hood
liner (what a POS lol)

that fills it up nicely.


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## Sh0rtbUs (11 Apr 2004)

sleeping bags are the most annoying contraptions i‘ve ever seen. Has ANYONE ever thought of making zippers for the inner/outer/liners? The tie system blows..

I betcha the guy who designed em never tried to sort out his sleeping bag under no light discipline!


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## MG34 (11 Apr 2004)

The SB liner and issued poncho liner (ranger blanket) are being replaced with the new CADPAT thermal blanket it has zippers,no more ties....Oh yeah they are being issued next month.


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## Korus (11 Apr 2004)

Next month, but I‘m guessing that‘s to the regs out East, isn‘t it?

Us Mo saps in the West probably won‘t be seeing them for a long time.

I can‘t even get my fleece jacket now, as they‘re telling me they‘ve stopped making the green ones, and they need to start issuing the Cadpat ones to the regs, who then must turn in their green fleeces before I can get one..

Oh well, I‘ll make do.


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## 1feral1 (11 Apr 2004)

Speaking of SB liners, has anyone seen or have the Cdn peacekeeper fleece liner?

Just wondering, as I am interested in buying one of these, as it would be just right for Australia I reckon.

Cheers,

Wes


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## portcullisguy (12 Apr 2004)

The fleece liner that Cdn peacekeeper sells is GREAT kit.  I highly recommend it.

In fact, I think I am going to return my flannel issued one, if they let me.

Some guys in my unit sleep with just the liner and a bivvy bag, in appropriate climates.

Last weekend, staying in shacks at Meaford, I used the fleece liner alone on the bunks, instead of dealing with the sheets and wool blankets, and I was very comfortable.

I also used the liner with the SB outer on ex in Fort Drum‘s fibua site in March, which was pretty chilly, even indoors, but I stayed warm.

If I can get my hands on a bivvy bag, I‘d give up a lot of the other kit I am currently lugging around, I would imagine.


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## portcullisguy (12 Apr 2004)

142Highlander,

The CF valise, with the strings on the side, is very slippery, and if it‘s not tied down very tight, it will slip and shift during a ruck march.

One solution I use, if I have the time, is to run the valise straps through the strings and keep it as centred as possible, and zip it tight.

Check that you have run the valise straps correctly, too.  They should be pressing the valise into the frame, not totally wrapping around the valise.  I see people all the time have it running around the valise and basically hanging between the plastic buckle on the ruck bag and the metal frame on the bottom, so it is basically loose between the ruck bag and the bottom of the frame.

The valise straps should only touch the outside of the valise, and when tightened, it will press the valise against the frame and bottom of the ruck bag.

Hard to explain, easier to show!  But I think you probably get it.

If you haven‘t already, make sure your webbing is set up correctly, too, so the buttpack isn‘t bumping the valise off-centre all the time.  It‘s amazing how many troops I see with their buttpack put on all wrong, and it ends up riding too high and interfering with the ruck.


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## 1feral1 (12 Apr 2004)

When I was in the CF, used to have the SB inner, outer, liner, air mattress, Mustang Bivvy and a wash basin in there, that was winter. Summer was a poncho liner, outer, air mattress, Mustang Bivvy, bug bar and basin.

Here in Australia I use a CF valise and 82 ptrn ruck cuz ours has no frame. The OD cordura has a permanent reddish tint to it from our soil. Its well used and I prefer it to the Aussie backbreaker which is like an old CF cargo pack.

Inside the valise is a waterproof bag which as my SB in it, bug bar, air mattress, bivvy, poncho and liner.

I also tuck in the straps as said above, its the best way to keep things secure and centred.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Infanteer (12 Apr 2004)

Wesley, you willingly use an 82 pattern frame?!?  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  I got a jump frame of a mate and I have never looked back.  Life only got better with a custom bag from the VP kitshop.

As for my Valise.

- Biv Bag
- Sleeping bag (I got a synthetic Softie because I am allergic to the feathers - quality difference is amazing)
- Norge Sweater
- Spare change of underclothing

Basically, all my sleeping gear and clothing is kept in the valise or in my webbing.  Saving room in my ruckbag for the essentials (ammo, food, water, Mission essential kit, etc)


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## 1feral1 (12 Apr 2004)

I have had the welders in GE touch up the frame a few times over the yrs. I am to Canada in your northern summer for about a month, so I‘ll check out the local disposals to see if I can get a ‘rucksack universal, C1 frame‘. I used to have two of those old rucks.

Overall, I am however content with the 82 ptrn one, as no jumping for me, the ruck is in the back of the GMV or at home prepacked as usual, and sice I am RAEME att to RAA, maybe only a few days a yr do I have to grunt it, as we have our IMTs (Infantry Minor Tactics) every May/Jum at Majura in the ACT.

Cheers,

Wes


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## MJP (12 Apr 2004)

I agree with Infanteer 24-48 hrs worth of kit in valise plus my shaving kit.  This is important being in a mech Coy, seeing as how we may live out of our valises for a few days at a time.  But the same holds true when we go over to the light role, it‘s much easier to live out of your valise than screw around in your ruck.


Pack light freeze at night


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## AlphaCharlie (12 Apr 2004)

I hate the liner. I tried to sleep in it on my first night of basic (which as you all know is VERY uncomfortable) and I ended up putting a HUGE rip in the side of it... so I said ****it and I just use the inner now...


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## Jarnhamar (12 Apr 2004)

"Oh yeah they are being issued next month."

meaning the airforce get the cadpat blankets first followed by the navy, right


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## Danny (12 Apr 2004)

Portcullisguy, could you explain how some guys have their buttpacks on wrong? And the proper way of putting it on? Makes me think I have mine on wrong.


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## AlphaCharlie (12 Apr 2004)

when you put your ruck on, you want to loosen the rear straps as much as possible, and loosen the front straps too, so the valise sits on the top of the buttpack...

the BP should be hangin on yer arse.


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## portcullisguy (13 Apr 2004)

Here are a few examples of what I am talking about (I broke out the digital camera for these... I know, my webbing and ruck are filthy, shhh, don‘t tell my CSM!)

First, here is a properly assembled buttpack...












In the bottom picture, the straps run through the O-ring, which centres takes the weight off the plastic clips that hold the buttpack on to the webbing straps.





Here the O-ring is by-passed.  I see this all the time, and actually once had to correct buddy during a brief halt in a ruck march, as he was all messed up and losing his kit, etc.  His buttpack was coming off, the plastic clips can‘t support much weight if the strap doesn‘t go through the O-ring.

Now the ruck... it might be hard to explain here...





Ruck with no valise, you can see the straps run through the O-rings on the bottom of the ruck bag, then through the frame and out the holes in the bottom of the frame.  When the valise is packed in there, the valise straps hold it tight against the frame, which keeps the weight from shifting around.






Here, the ruck with valise attached incorrectly has the straps NOT going through the frame, just the O-rings and the bottom of the frame.  The straps touch the valise on all sides, and there‘s a gap between the frame and valise.  This means it shifts around, no matter how tight you make the straps.  After a few klicks on the march, this tires you out because the weight shifts around as the valise bobbles to and fro, and it‘s less secure, as the valise slips out of the straps sometimes.

Hope that makes some sense...


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## patt (13 Apr 2004)

sience we are on the topic of webbing i got 2 questions

1.When parachuteing where does the webbing go? ive seen people jump with rucks but i never saw the webbelts

2. is it or will it be easier to walk around with the new tac vest and the ruck on at the same time?


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## chrisp1j (13 Apr 2004)

Webbing could go into the valise or into the ruck itself.

The new tac vest does not have any packs on the rear (though it has webbing sewn onto it for attaching small packs and stuff). So theoretically, it should be easier to wear with a ruck (then webbing or the older tac vest, as both have pouches on the back). I never have any problems with the older style tac vest though.

The tac vest still tends to bunch up (same as the old tac vest) when you try to do up your ruck‘s waist belt. 

Mind you thats with the 82 pattern rucksack, so they may be straitening that problem out with the new-issued rucks.

Its not a bad system though. The main problem is the lack of mag pouches (though thats not a problem for me yet).

Chris


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## Pikache (13 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Infanteer:
> Basically, all my sleeping gear and clothing is kept in the valise or in my webbing.  Saving room in my ruckbag for the essentials (ammo, food, water, Mission essential kit, etc)


That‘s what I was taught on my BIQ... that the main pouch of the ruck belongs to the platoon. You put all your personal kit in the valise, the 3 side pouches on ruck and the top pouch. Actually, 3 side pouches usually end up carrying C6 ammo.

My set up for spring/summer/fall is
-1 set spare uniform
-ranger blanket
-bivy bag
-fleece top
-bug net (head portion)
-gitch/socks

Never been really cold yet.


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## portcullisguy (14 Apr 2004)

RHF, they never told me how to pack my ruck on BIQ, except that I had to have room for all the extra crap they gave me in the event I needed it.  But on our FTX we barely used the rucks.

Some of the kit lists I see are amazing, and the Meaford standards are certainly exceptional -- mostly everything is supposed to be in the rucksack main compartment.  For the winter order, it‘s even worse.

I would hate to have to find room for a couple Carl G rounds and a box or four of C6 ammo after packing "as per" the ATC Meaford kit list.

Even more reason to ditch the extra sleeping bag and numerous other tidbits of kit (I use the collapsible wash basin now, not the aluminum one, and I rarely take the melmac anywhere).  In fact, I am trying to find a good Brit mess kit and pouch for my belt so that I never have to worry about the melmac again, the goal is to have KFS, plate and cup all in one pouch on the belt.

On the plus side, you can usually fit quite a bit in to the ruck‘s main comp.  I surprise myself sometimes when I stuff things in there I wouldn‘t think would fit.  Even after it‘s "full" I manage to get the Camelbak and Gortex coat in there no probs.

But I‘ve had to figure this stuff out on my own, the instructors on my BIQ didn‘t show me jack.


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## Pikache (15 Apr 2004)

Well, it‘s experience that teaches you how to pack your kit to your comfort.


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## Infanteer (15 Apr 2004)

I‘ve also seen a few ridiculous kit lists.  You should have seen the kit list for OP PALLADIUM.  I think each soldier had his ruck, an IPE bag, a duffel bag, and three barrack boxes full of stuff.  WAY to much stuff to be hauling around.  I felt kind of sheepish with my wardrobe watching the Brits show up with webbing and bergan (MAYBE a sea-bag as well).  The CF needs to get to the "fight light" mentality, otherwise were just going to have a retardedly large "tail" following whatever "tooth" we can put out.

I‘m not really a fan of uniform packing within the section or platoon (IE, your half-shelter WILL be at the top of your valise!).  I‘ve seen arguments for and against it, and I figure if everyone packs smart (ie, brings what is required, packs commonly used items in an easy to access manner) there shouldn‘t be a problem.

I usually try and avoid bringing snivel kit.  As a private, I was a one-man QM, carrying all this extra garbage into the field (cam net, stove, boots, bug screen, yadayadayada).  That all changed the day my section commander started dumping Mission essential kit on me for a week long company ex for workup.  I‘m constantly trying to perfect the minimalist yet most efficent kit list.  Here is Infanteer‘s attempt so far....


Webbing:
- couple pairs of light gloves (I have a pair of Hatch that act as my workhorses, I also like the issue anti contact gloves)
- spare pair of socks (New issue ones are the cat‘s meow)
- toque (I‘m partial to the fleece ones myself; green please, I am not a commando)
- My Schmagh, for some reason, I‘m happy when my head isn‘t radiating all my body heat on those morning stand-tos.
- I also have the Arktis Stowaway shirt packed in the webbing, worn under the Combat Shirt, it is the definiton of Gucci kit.
- Cam paint, bug dope, foot powder and all that crap.

In the ruck:

Valise:
- Sleeping bag
- Biv Bag (A must, sometimes you can get away with no fart sack (I wouldn‘t recommend it) but this is essential)
- Issue long underwear (top and bottom)
- Norge Sweater (Wool is still the best in the game)
- Gortex socks (If you boots get soaked)
- Spare ginch and socks

In the bag (A modified jump bag I got from the 1VP kitshop)
- Toiletries in a MEC bag in side pouch
- Two quart in the other side pouch
- Can fit two days rats in the center pouch
- I usually throw the good old gummy rain suit in the bottom of the bag in case things go south.


I brought a spare pair of combats on OP GRIZZLY because I knew it was going to be an Admin hide.  Usually I just change underwear if my uniform is wet, because the fresh one would just get wet anyways.

I am a convert to polypro.  Only if it is frigging hot do you see me without the long underwear and top.  Its one of those things your always kicking yourself for not having on when you do the 0300-0400 shift on the C-6.  Definately good issue from the CF.

I hate the gortex jacket, and have never used the thing short of winter parades.

Two things I am currently eyeing up:
DropZone‘s "Recce Smock" - Seen some pretty good comments on it from some BTDT‘s.
American Poncho - Thing is probably the handiest little piece of kit I‘ve ever seen.

As you can tell, I‘m a bit of a kit slut.  To each his own, as long as you look Canadian.


Of course, winter ops is a completely different story.


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## Superman (15 Apr 2004)

I wanna be a kit slut.... beats being cold...


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