# No federal emergency agency



## MarkOttawa (7 Apr 2006)

Readers might be interested in this guest-post at "Daimnation!"!

"Canada has no federal emergency agency"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/005461.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## Centurian1985 (20 Apr 2006)

Yes, I know about this.  It was one of the concerns I was addressing while still in the forces, but I never heard what was being done to follow up on the problem since I left in early 2005.  As far as I know, nowadays the issue has been delegated to provincial organizations to deal with (unfortunately by people the majority of whom are bureaucrats with little or no experience in dealing with emergency situations).


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## scoutfinch (20 Apr 2006)

All I can say is thank god... the last thing I want Stockwell Day to be running is a federal emergency agency.  Wait until there is someone who doesn't believe humans and dinosaurs co-existed before creating such an agency.


While the agency may be a great idea, Stockwell Day is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.


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## MarkOttawa (20 Apr 2006)

scoutfinch.  Mr Day is in charge of federal emergency planning and response.  Read the post at the top of the thread please.  OCIPEP was created under Chretien, and then was moved under Martin from DND to PSEPC  and soon abolished, with its functions distributed within the regular departmental bureaucracy for which Mr Day is the minister.

This is what OCIPEP looked like before the shift to PSEPC (most web traces of OCIPEP have vanished):
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inad-ad.nsf/en/ad03820e.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## Screw (26 Apr 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> All I can say is thank god... the last thing I want Stockwell Day to be running is a federal emergency agency.  Wait until there is someone who doesn't believe humans and dinosaurs co-existed before creating such an agency.



How does that affect his ability to perform his duties? I find the "thank god" addition to your personal attack on Mr.Day pretty humorous.


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## pbi (22 Jun 2006)

I wouldn't worry too much about this just yet. In Canada, dealing with a major emergency has always been, overwhelmingly, the premise of provincial emergency measures organizations, most of which contain at least some number of ex-military types, and usually work quite closely with the G3 branch of the nearest Land Force Area HQ. Emergency Preparedeness Canada (later OCIPEP) was IMHO largely regarded by the provinces as a bit-player that brought very little to the table and was mostly not taken seriously. AFAIK it had no real  power, and all of the resources for response were either already controlled at provincial or municipal level or by other Fed Depts and agencies like RCMP and the CF.  During planning for Op ABACUS, (Y2K) for example, EPC was intentionally marginalized and the CF took much of the lead, because we had the planning and coordination capability. So, I'm not sure that we have actually lost anything by this.

Cheers


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## Centurian1985 (22 Jun 2006)

In support of *pbi*, all planning for during emergency actions focuses on the provincial government and EM orgs handling the situation.  Federal and national organizations are only expected to provide (when requested) assets, financing, administrative and logistic support.


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## MarkOttawa (22 Jun 2006)

Centurian1985: New Orleans? Louisiana?  During the 97 Manitoba floods and the 98 Ice Storm the federal assistance,  coordinated through EPC, was substantial.  Without a single, dedicated federal agency to do this work I suspect the federal response next time will be inadequate.

Mark
Ottawa


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## OnTrack (22 Jun 2006)

pbi said:
			
		

> During planning for Op ABACUS, (Y2K) for example, EPC was intentionally marginalized and the CF took much of the lead, because we had the planning and coordination capability. So, I'm not sure that we have actually lost anything by this.



Aah..Op ABACUS..now there was a cluster colossal waste of time and money that made a whole bunch of Generals and Colonels look good (enough to be promoted).


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## pbi (23 Jun 2006)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Centurian1985: New Orleans? Louisiana?  During the 97 Manitoba floods and the 98 Ice Storm the federal assistance,  coordinated through EPC, was substantial.  Without a single, dedicated federal agency to do this work I suspect the federal response next time will be inadequate.
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Did EPC actually do this? What was it that they coordinated?

Cheers


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## MarkOttawa (23 Jun 2006)

pbi: I won't go into details, but I represented the Coast Guard at daily meetings of all involved at the EPC ops centre.  A lot of coordinating was done; delivery of course was mainly military, provincial and local.  Though CCG generators ended up in Ottawa, for one place.  And CCG ended up in effect running over-all emergency operations around Prescott, Ont.

Mark
Ottawa


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## Centurian1985 (23 Jun 2006)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Centurian1985: New Orleans? Louisiana?  During the 97 Manitoba floods and the 98 Ice Storm the federal assistance,  coordinated through EPC, was substantial.  Without a single, dedicated federal agency to do this work I suspect the federal response next time will be inadequate.
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Im only going by what I know was happening, I dont say that I agree with it.  The assistance for both of those ops was indeed substantial, and I agree that in a future event, federal response will be inadequate without a corrdinating agency.  Although OCIPEP had its problems, it was in the middle of changing and improving, so dont know why exactly it was scrapped.  I did hear that the role they had taken over prior to being dismantled was a duplicate of services already provided by other government departments so that might have been a factor.  A casualty of squabbling and inter-department politics?


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## Centurian1985 (23 Jun 2006)

OnTrack said:
			
		

> Aah..Op ABACUS..now there was a cluster colossal waste of time and money that made a whole bunch of Generals and Colonels look good (enough to be promoted).



I'll be one of the first to agree that the whole operation was blown out of proportion, but it did have a very good effect on the realization that some of our information and commnication nets were substandard in some areas of the country.  Senior staff at 1 CAD claimed that Y2K identified and fixed problems that led to a direct contribution to later successfully dealing with 9/11.


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## MarkOttawa (23 Jun 2006)

I was only at  the ops centre for the 98 Ice Storm.  As far as I know no autonomous federal agency is now responsible for emergency planning and response; I think that creates a major vulnerability.

Mark
Ottawa


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## canadianblue (28 Jun 2006)

> Wait until there is someone who doesn't believe humans and dinosaurs co-existed before creating such an agency.



So anybody that has religous beliefs that conflict with yours doesn't deserve to be in charge of National Security, or for that matter be a Provincial Treasurer, which was one of the worst things to ever hit the province of Alberta. :


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## Centurian1985 (28 Jun 2006)

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> So anybody that has religous beliefs that conflict with yours doesn't deserve to be in charge of National Security, or for that matter be a Provincial Treasurer, which was one of the worst things to ever hit the province of Alberta. :



 ??? ??? ???

Is that a thread 'hijack'?


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