# Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N. Korea



## JasonH (12 Sep 2004)

Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N. Korea
Major Explosion Followed by Mushroom Cloud Reported in North Korea on Key Communist Regime Date

The Associated Press



SEOUL, South Korea Sept. 11, 2004 â â€ A large explosion occurred in the northern part of North Korea, sending a huge mushroom cloud into the air on an important anniversary of the communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday. 
The Yonhap news agency, citing an unidentified source in Beijing, said the explosion happened Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China. The explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county blasted a crater big enough to be noticed by a satellite, the source said.



"We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5 to 4 kilometers (about 2-2 1/2 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," Yonhap quoted an unidentified diplomatic source in Seoul as saying.

North Korea was founded Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.

Experts have speculated that North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, though there was no immediate indication that Thursday's reported explosion was linked to Pyongyang's efforts to develop nuclear weapons.

Kim Hyong Jik is reported to hold a major missile base. North Korea, which has a large missile arsenal and more than 1 million soldiers, is dotted with military installations.

South Korea's Unification Minister Chung Dong-young said Sunday the government was in the process of confirming reports there were signs of an explosion in North Korea.

"I am not aware of details such as the size of the damage," he was quoted as saying by Yonhap after a National Security Council meeting.

On Saturday, North Korea said recent revelations that South Korea conducted secret nuclear experiments involving uranium and plutonium made the communist state more determined to pursue its own atomic programs.

The South Korean experiments, conducted in 1982 and 2000, were likely to further complicate the already stalled six-nation talks aimed at dismantling the North's nuclear development. South Korea has said the experiments were purely for research and did not reflect a desire to develop weapons.

On April 22, train wagons at a railway station exploded in the North Korean town of Ryongchon, killing 160 people and injuring an estimated 1,300, according to some estimates. The blast was believed to have been sparked by a train laden with oil and chemicals that hit power lines.

The source in the Yonhap report said Thursday's explosion reportedly was bigger than the train explosion.



Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. 

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040911_1534.html


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## JasonH (12 Sep 2004)

If this were the case that it was a nuclear test it could may well have implications for more then just South Korea... but for the world.


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## nULL (12 Sep 2004)

let's just hope it was planned and not an accident!


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## Scott (12 Sep 2004)

Either way it is not a good thing.


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## JasonH (12 Sep 2004)

And besides it must of been a nuke blast if it made a mushroom cloud 3-4 km's high... the only bombs able to do that is the likes of the MOAB bomb that the United States has and North Korea doesn't come close to that kind of Conventional Warfare Missile/Bomb


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2004)

Published: Sep 12, 2004 



WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States does not believe that a large explosion in North Korea was related to the communist country's suspected nuclear weapons program, Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday. 
"There was no indication that was a nuclear event of any kind. Exactly what it was, we're not sure," Powell said. 

The explosion occurred Thursday near the border with China, according to a South Korean report. 

North Korea is believed to be developing nuclear weapons. International experts would likely have been able to detect a test if one had occurred several days ago. 

Powell told ABC's "This Week" that there were "some activities taking place and some sites that we're watching carefully, but it is not conclusive that they are moving toward a test." 

He said the United States is concerned about "all of North Korea's nuclear development activities." 

The United States, Russia, Japan, China and the two Koreas have held talks on North Korea's suspected nuclear weapons development, and they agreed to hold another round of negotiations in Beijing this month. No date has been set. 

The United States has pushed for North Korea to fully disclose all of its nuclear activities and allow outside monitoring before it receives any assistance. North Korea wants energy aid, lifting of economic sanctions and removal from its inclusion on Washington's list of state sponsors of terrorism. 

AP-ES-09-12-04 0943EDT


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## winchable (12 Sep 2004)

Alright, so what we know is there are reports of a mushroom cloud 3-4 Km's high and a crater was visible by sattelite in the general area of where said blast was supposed to take place...d'no much about Nuclear weapons, but it sounds like one!?

Question; If it's not a nuclear blast, what is it?
I'm not a WMD expert, so please if anyone has any ideas, do tell.


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## JasonH (12 Sep 2004)

Well CNN is reporting it 'could' be a cloud from forest fires.. watch out fella's, try not to step in all the BS.

Hopefully there will be more on this by tonight or tomorrow but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to relize that a 3km tall mushroom cloud that's 4km's wide with a crater visible from space at a missile launching facility in north korea to figure out that something is wrong here.


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## nULL (12 Sep 2004)

if it was deep enough underground, would there still be a nuclear signature they could see from space?


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## McG (12 Sep 2004)

Did the Halifax explosion produce a mushroom cloud?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2004)

The Explosion 
At 9:04:35 Mont-Blanc exploded with a force stronger than any manmade explosion before it. 

The steel hull burst sky-high, falling in a blizzard of red-hot, twisted projectiles on Dartmouth and Halifax. 

Some pieces were tiny; others were huge. Part of the anchor hit the ground more than 4 kilometers away on the far side of Northwest Arm. A gun barrel landed in Dartmouth more than 5 kilometers from the harbour. 

After the Blast
The explosion sent a white cloud billowing 20,000 feet above the city. 

For almost two square kilometers around Pier 6, nothing was left standing. The blast obliterated most of Richmond: homes, apartments and business, even the towering sugar refinery. 

On the Dartmouth side, Tuft's Cove took the brunt of the blast. The small Mi'kmaq settlement of Turtle Grove was obliterated.


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## McG (12 Sep 2004)

Therefore, a sufficiently large accident can produce a mushroom cloud.


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## Infanteer (12 Sep 2004)

Maybe another one of their trains went AWOL....


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## Korus (12 Sep 2004)

Before the trinity gadget was detonated, the US conducted the '100 ton' test, where they stacked up about 108 tons of TNT, and detonated it.  Here's a picture of the fireball: http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/100TonExp3.jpg.

I can't seem to find any more data on that test, and how large of a crater/mushroom cloud was created, but it's something to keep in mind when considering what happened in NK recently.. Could be a test similar to the 100 ton test, could be them trying to fake having a nuke, could be an actual nuke, could be just another accident, it could be something else entirely...


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## lfejoel25 (12 Sep 2004)

Isn't there a way to tell if it was a nuke?  for example detecting the electromagnetic pulse, or radiation or something?


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## Jarnhamar (13 Sep 2004)

This may be a crazy idea but why doesn't North Korea put the energy and efforts from their nuclear program into feeding their population?


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## Redeye (13 Sep 2004)

Probably has something to do with their Dear Leader being a paranoid megalomaniac, but I'm not sure.  The DPRK has massive stockpiles of food (rice, etc), but it's all reserved for the military and not released to the public, and so people starve because their chronic agricultural mismanagement and bad climactic luck euchre them basically every year.

And despite this, many of them believe they live in paradise, because propaganda blares at them constantly that it's worse everywhere else.  Ice the cake with being almost totally cut off from the outside world (radios and cellphones are illegal!) and you have the recipe for quite the unstable dictatorship.

Fortunately it was not a nuclear event (if it was the EMP and radiation flashover would have been detected almost immediately - most likely a conventional explosion, either deliberate or accidental - though we're not too likely to know, because the North Koreans tend to keep a lot to themselves, and KCNA isn't reporting anything on it yet.


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## Jarnhamar (13 Sep 2004)

What a bunch of assholes.


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## pegged (13 Sep 2004)

From the CNN article:

"Rammell asked that international diplomats be allowed to inspect the site, and the Foreign Office said *North Korea has agreed to the request*."


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## I_am_John_Galt (13 Sep 2004)

"North Korea has said a large mushroom cloud seen over the nation in satellite images was the result of a deliberate demolition of a mountain for a power plant."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/13/nkorea.blast/index.html


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## Sundborg (13 Sep 2004)

Those are probably lies...  It's going to be another "Russian" cover-up like what happened back in the 70's and 80's with the Biological weapons and R&D.


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## Redeye (13 Sep 2004)

I_am_John_Galt said:
			
		

> "North Korea has said a large mushroom cloud seen over the nation in satellite images was the result of a deliberate demolition of a mountain for a power plant."
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/13/nkorea.blast/index.html



I highly, highly doubt a controlled demolition would require the amount of explosives that would be needed to generate such an explosion.  Any sapper types have any idea?


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## JasonH (14 Sep 2004)

Skepticism over N. Korean blast
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 Posted: 0728 GMT (1528 HKT) 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. and South Korean officials are still trying to verify what triggered a massive mushroom cloud in North Korea amid skepticism over Pyongyang's explanation of the event.

After several days of speculation, North Korea said on Monday the 4-kilometer (2 miles) wide cloud spotted on satellite images by South Korea's Yonhap agency was the result of a deliberate demolition of a mountain for a power plant.

North Korean Foreign Minister Paek Nam Sun provided the explanation to British Foreign Office Minister Bill Rammell, who has just concluded a four-day visit to the reclusive nation.

Rammell said Tuesday he also formed the view that North Korea was committed to holding six-party talks aimed at resolving the crisis over its nuclear weapons program. But he said Pyongyang was not yet prepared to commit to a date. (Full story)

The cause of the smoke, which was spotted on the day North Korea marks its founding, is still a mystery to U.S. and South Korean intelligence, though the Communist state is watched closely using spy satellites and other means.

A Bush official said Monday the administration is not prepared to "speculate" about what happened in North Korea.

The administration is not saying it thinks the blast was part of a demolition project, as the British Foreign Office does. One American official said: "That could be true, but we don't know. We can't rule it out."

The U.S. does not think it was a nuclear event, but an administration official cautioned: "We still don't know what it was, and we're not speculating."

U.S. officials say they are still reviewing satellite imagery and other intelligence on the matter.

Some outside analysts have speculated the explosion could have been at the Yongjo-ri Missile Base, a facility believed to house up to 36 NoDong missiles. U.S. officials say there is no evidence that is true, though it cannot be completely ruled out.

According to data gathered by the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI), Yongjo-ri is a suspected site for North Korea's uranium enrichment program.

South Korea skeptical too
On Tuesday South Korea's defense minister said the country was seeking independent verification on the nature of the blast.

Yoon Kwang-woong said the South would use intelligence channels and satellite images to check on the source of the blast in a northern region of the North.

"The weather is clear, so we should be able to take satellite images today and tomorrow and analyze them," Yoon told pool reporters ahead of a cabinet meeting on Tuesday.

"We should be able to confirm the site of the explosion."

Hydroelectric experts in Seoul have questioned the North's explanation, saying the relatively small Huchang river in the area made it an unlikely and unfeasible site for a major hydro power plant, according to Reuters reports.

The nation's media have also raised questions, with the Chosun Ilbo newspaper quoting a North Korean defector familiar with the region who said the body of water in the area was not sufficient for a large power plant.

Britain's Foreign Office has said North Korea is allowing international diplomats to inspect the site.

North Korea's vice foreign minister for Europe, Kung Sok Ung, said Britain's ambassador to Pyongyang, David Slinn, could go to the site as soon as Tuesday.

North Korea's official KCNA news agency said late Monday that reports of a large accidental explosion at the site or a nuclear test was a "preposterous smear campaign."

"Probably, plot-breeders might tell such a sheer lie, taken aback by blastings at construction sites of hydropower stations in the north of Korea," KCNA said.

CNN Radio, CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor and Correspondent Sohn Jie-Ae contributed to this report.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/a...last/index.html


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## JasonH (14 Sep 2004)

You nailed it on the head Red Eye


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## sdimock (14 Sep 2004)

*Speculation*

The *former* Yongjo-ri Missile Base, (currently a hole in the ground).

The accidental ignition of a NoDong missile set of its fuel and adjoining missiles, the following chain reaction created a mushroom cloud and a crater the envy of sappers around the world.

At least it wasn't nuclear. :skull:

Maybe their safety procedures need a little work.


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## I_am_John_Galt (14 Sep 2004)

sdimock said:
			
		

> Maybe their safety procedures need a little work.



Yeah, I *somehow suspect* this isn't very high on "Dear Leader's" > list of priorities ...


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## JasonH (14 Sep 2004)

sdimock said:
			
		

> *Speculation*
> 
> The *former* Yongjo-ri Missile Base, (currently a hole in the ground).
> 
> ...


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## sdimock (14 Sep 2004)

Hi Jay,

Please reference Post  by Che on page one;

"Alright, so what we know is there are reports of a mushroom cloud 3-4 Km's high and a crater was visible by sattelite in the general area of where said blast was supposed to take place...d'no much about Nuclear weapons, but it sounds like one!?

Question; If it's not a nuclear blast, what is it?
I'm not a WMD expert, so please if anyone has any ideas, do tell."

and Redeyes on this page;

"Fortunately it was not a nuclear event (if it was the EMP and radiation flashover would have been detected almost immediately - most likely a conventional explosion, either deliberate or accidental - though we're not too likely to know, because the North Koreans tend to keep a lot to themselves, and KCNA isn't reporting anything on it yet."

If the scenario I put forward happened, North Korea would never admit it.

Also note the disclamer in bold at the beginning of my post.

Chimo


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## winchable (14 Sep 2004)

A quote from the KCNA news agency:


> Probably, plot-breeders might tell such a sheer lie, taken aback by blastings at construction sites of hydropower stations in the north of Korea



I love how the North Koreans still cannot produce a flawless translation into English, it really is a sign of their isolation.
I've got official-unofficial tourist pamphlets from NK and they are good for a laugh if you're into languages.


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## JasonH (14 Sep 2004)

I think we all need to work on our bolding etc abilities     ;D


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## JasonH (14 Sep 2004)

Che said:
			
		

> A quote from the KCNA news agency:
> 
> 
> I love how the North Koreans still cannot produce a flawless translation into English, it really is a sign of their isolation.
> I've got official-unofficial tourist pamphlets from NK and they are good for a laugh if you're into languages.



I've seen those, good knee slapper when you need one to just whip out one of those.

But anyways if they keep messing around they can be the next chernobyl (Here's hopeing it's when Kim Jong ll visits  :threat:


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## Redeye (14 Sep 2004)

Che said:
			
		

> A quote from the KCNA news agency:
> 
> 
> I love how the North Koreans still cannot produce a flawless translation into English, it really is a sign of their isolation.
> I've got official-unofficial tourist pamphlets from NK and they are good for a laugh if you're into languages.



I have sort of a bizarre fascination with someday visiting North Korea, just to see with my own eyes how screwed up the country is.


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## JasonH (16 Sep 2004)

Funny how it's a big thing then the news forgets about this... bah.


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## Kirkhill (17 Sep 2004)

Following along in the same vein about media forgetting to follow up,

I came across this reference to the earlier railway blast in Korea -  some curious victims.  Had this been noted by other members of this forum previously?

http://www.instapundit.com/archives/015584.php



> May 17, 2004
> THIS IS INTERESTING, if true:
> 
> 
> ...


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## JasonH (17 Sep 2004)

> North Korea 'planning more blasts'
> Friday, September 17, 2004 Posted: 0321 GMT (1121 HKT)
> 
> (CNN) -- North Korea is planning to carry out two more explosions as part of a hydroelectric power plant project after a major blast last week sparked speculation a nuclear test had taken place, Kyodo news agency has reported.
> ...


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## Bruce Monkhouse (17 Sep 2004)

Smells like BS. to me also.
If a blast of this size was intentional thier fearless leader would be the first to crow about it.
I'm sure the spin doctors need a couple of days rest now.


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