# Memo to seek autorization for PT outside the system



## honestyrules (26 Jun 2013)

Hi,

I remember reading some unit orders that specified that if the member wanted to do PT outside the base (there was a list of approved activities) and make it count for unit PT (and be covered in case of injury), the member had to submit a memo to the CoC, in order to get it approved.
Now, was it some local unit orders, or CF regulation?

Can somebody point me in the right direction?

Regards,


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## MikeL (26 Jun 2013)

Check the CANFORGENs, also speak with the PSP on base as they probably have this information. If you saw this information in unit routine orders, refer back to them as it may have the information you seek, or the CANFORGEN #, etc as reference.


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## George Wallace (26 Jun 2013)

Meanwhile, when you did your CFEXPRES test and your BFT, you filled out forms onto which you indicated what types of PT you were performing outside of work hours.  Have you thought to use those forms and/or the new forms that are no doubt being created for the 'New PT Standards Testing'?


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## DAA (26 Jun 2013)

delavan said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I remember reading some unit orders that specified that if the member wanted to do PT outside the base (there was a list of approved activities) and make it count for unit PT (and be covered in case of injury), the member had to submit a memo to the CoC, in order to get it approved.
> Now, was it some local unit orders, or CF regulation?
> ...



That's what the former CF Express Form was used for like George has mentioned above.  Not entirely familiar with the new FORCE Forms as I would have to take a closer look at one of them.  Fitness activities, fall under the PSP umbrella, so you need to talk to them first.

Be forewarned........if you are leaving the workplace early (ie' during duty hours but with permission of course), to do PT and you do that PT at home (ie; you have a treadmill, home gym, etc) as opposed to a "supervised" PSP Facility and get injured, you and your CoC are going to have alot of questions to answer.

If it is outside of working hours, then that is where the Fitness Evaluation (CF Express/FORCE) forms come into play.


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## Ostrozac (26 Jun 2013)

Sometimes people get a little overexcited about off-duty PT being or not being "covered" -- if you injure yourself in your home gym, or doing jailhouse pushups in your room in the shacks, the military medical system will still try to heal you.  Where your Expres form declarations (and CF98 if you get injured) really come into play is if you get injured, don't recover, and you start going down the road to medical release. At that time determining whether your injury was "service-related" can be very important.


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## Towards_the_gap (26 Jun 2013)

I'll be that guy then...Why don't you want to do PT with your unit?


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## Haggis (26 Jun 2013)

The FORCE form doesn't have the old checklist of activities like the CF EXPRES or LFCPFS forms did.

Your best bet (and I have done this) is to write a memo to "REQUEST APPROVAL TO PARTICIPATE IN  NON-STANDARD PHYSICAL FITNESS TRAINING ACTIVITIES".

In the memo explain what you want to do and how often you plan to do it.  Stress that this will not interfere with your participation in regular unit fitness training (if any) *OR* if you plan to do this instead of unit PFT, explain that this is to attain a certain goal and you are following a prescribed program (i.e. CANSOFCOM selection).  Be prepared to answer questions on your risk mitigation plan if you are proposing hazardous activities.

Good luck.


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## honestyrules (26 Jun 2013)

Well, 

It's not for me, as I do PT with the unit. Just trying to help somebody, but trying to get the reference first. I just remember reading a paragraph (requires CO's approval) in former unit orders about it.

Haggis, you're basically saying exactly what was stated in the orders I remember. PT above what's offered locally, to participate in some competitions/marathons/Ironman and such. I was just trying to see if it was a CF-wide or unit-specific directive. 

Thanks for everybody imput!


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## DAA (27 Jun 2013)

Further to my post above, I had a closer look at one of the "Programme FORCE Program" forms which are now in use by PSP.  They do not include the same type of additional fitness activities as the CF Express Forms used to have.

Rather, there is a section titled "Exercise Prescription" - "Level of Supervision".  PSP Staff have two options, one is "Direct" and the other is "DFit.ca" which I assume replaces the info which used to be on the old forms.

Have a look at the this link, as I believe that this is what you and others may be looking for --->  www.dfit.ca


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Jun 2013)

Here's a question.

The BFT form allowed for Reservists to be covered in a large amount of physical activities, to remain fit, while not on duty.

The person would check off their activities and the form would be signed by the CO or their representative.

If a Reservist was hurt during these activities, even though not signed in, they would be given consideration by the system as being on duty.

It is something Reservists fought long and hard for.

It would appear, the Reservist is no longer a consideration again and the fight was for naught.

What is going to be done for the Reservist now, that is remaining fit by doing physical activity for their CF job, that is, say, struck by a car?

A Reg who is struck by a car while jogging after hours, remains on the payroll and is provided medical care. 

Most Reservists won't be.

Are the rules going to reflect the old policy, or are Reservists on their own again?


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## Haggis (27 Jun 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Are the rules going to reflect the old policy, or are Reservists on their own again?



CANFORGEN 115/08 which provided this coverage has been cancelled and it's provisions rolled into CBI 210.72.

However you raise a valid point of how do we determine which PFT activites are sanctioned and which are not.  I have asked the DFit folks.


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## Shamrock (27 Jun 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Here's a question.
> What is going to be done for the Reservist now, that is remaining fit by doing physical activity for their CF job, that is, say, struck by a car?
> 
> A Reg who is struck by a car while jogging after hours, remains on the payroll and is provided medical care.
> ...



Is your Reservist not entitled to Worker's comp/disposition and/or provincial health care?

Edit: In reading CBI 210.72(4), looks like there's coverage.


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## George Wallace (27 Jun 2013)

Unless a Reservist is injured on a civilian job, I do not think Workman's Compensation covers any injuries incurred while doing PT for the Reserves.

Yes, Provincial Healthcare plans may cover some injuries, but highly unlikely to the extent that the CF would.  Anyone ever hear of a Provincial Healthcare plan that gives one a pension for an injury?


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Jun 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Unless a Reservist is injured on a civilian job, I do not think Workman's Compensation covers any injuries incurred while doing PT for the Reserves.
> 
> Yes, Provincial Healthcare plans may cover some injuries, but highly unlikely to the extent that the CF would.  Anyone ever hear of a Provincial Healthcare plan that gives one a pension for an injury?



Or provide their wages while being treated or recovering. We could also toss drug costs in there. Workers comp only covers work related injuries.


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## Shamrock (28 Jun 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Unless a Reservist is injured on a civilian job, I do not think Workman's Compensation covers any injuries incurred while doing PT for the Reserves.
> 
> Yes, Provincial Healthcare plans may cover some injuries, but highly unlikely to the extent that the CF would.  Anyone ever hear of a Provincial Healthcare plan that gives one a pension for an injury?



The CBI must have been superceded, then.  The one I'm reading is black and white.


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## Haggis (28 Jun 2013)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> The CBI must have been superceded, then.  The one I'm reading is black and white.



The link I posted above is current.  The problematic paragraph, as Recceguy pointed out, is 210.72(4):



> 210.72(4) (Deemed Class “A” Service)
> Subject to paragraphs (7), (8), (9) and (10), an officer or noncommissioned member of the Reserve Force who suffers an injury, disease or illness while participating
> in a Commanding Officer approved CF Exercise Prescription (Expres), or Land Forces Command Physical Fitness Standard (LFCPFS) prescribed activity, as part of an authorized fitness program, is deemed to be on Class “A” Reserve Service for the sole purpose of compensation under this instruction."



The problem is that the Revised DND 279 form used for FORCE  testing no longer has the checklist of activities in section J.  In the past, the member would check of their activities (including frequency and intensity) and the CO would sign the bottom of the form.  Voila!  Commanding Officer approval for the purposes of CBI 210.72.

Benefits under CBI 210.72 are based on demonstrated entitlements.  If no entitlement is shown, no benefit is paid.  If the member is injured while engaged in a fitness activity that the CO has not _specifically_ approved, then s/he couid be denied the benefit. 

The saving here is that the first level of review and reccommendation for claims under CBI 210.72(4) is the unit CO.  In theory, a CO could retroactively approve the activity that injured the member once s/he recieves a statement of claim.


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## DAA (28 Jun 2013)

Haggis said:
			
		

> The problem is that the Revised DND 279 form used for FORCE  testing no longer has the checklist of activities in section J.  In the past, the member would check of their activities (including frequency and intensity) and the CO would sign the bottom of the form.  Voila!  Commanding Officer approval for the purposes of CBI 210.72.



Would that not be where   www.dfit.ca   comes into play as you have to "register" your program?



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> Further to my post above, I had a closer look at one of the "Programme FORCE Program" forms which are now in use by PSP.  They do not include the same type of additional fitness activities as the CF Express Forms used to have.
> 
> Rather, there is a section titled "Exercise Prescription" - "Level of Supervision".  PSP Staff have two options, one is "Direct" and the other is "DFit.ca" which I assume replaces the info which used to be on the old forms.
> 
> Have a look at the this link, as I believe that this is what you and others may be looking for --->  www.dfit.ca


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## 2010newbie (28 Jun 2013)

DAA said:
			
		

> Would that not be where   www.dfit.ca   comes into play as you have to "register" your program?



The website contains pre-made workout/running programs based on some parameters you enter, but I could not find a spot where you could specify a certain activity that you want to partake in for approval. There isn't a checklist like what was on the CFExpress form either.


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## Haggis (28 Jun 2013)

DAA said:
			
		

> Would that not be where   www.dfit.ca   comes into play as you have to "register" your program?



The disconnect is that a member can create an account in www.dfit.ca, download and embark upon an ambitious program in an overzealous manner and get injured - all without any form of command approval.  All you need is DWAN access to initially set up your account.


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## Shamrock (28 Jun 2013)

Haggis said:
			
		

> The saving here is that the first level of review and reccommendation for claims under CBI 210.72(4) is the unit CO.  In theory, a CO could retroactively approve the activity that injured the member once s/he recieves a statement of claim.



That's my take on it.  Where as before, one would be required to seek CO's approval via the DND279, now one does it through a memo.


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## DAA (28 Jun 2013)

Haggis said:
			
		

> The disconnect is that a member can create an account in www.dfit.ca, download and embark upon an ambitious program in an overzealous manner and get injured - all without any form of command approval.  All you need is DWAN access to initially set up your account.





			
				Shamrock said:
			
		

> That's my take on it.  Where as before, one would be required to seek CO's approval via the DND279, now one does it through a memo.



Guess it's time for a courtesy visit with my PSP friends to see what's up on this as I am pretty much in the same boat as many others.  Will post next week with what I find out.....


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## Haggis (28 Jun 2013)

DAA:  Check your PM`s.


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