# What If Canada Were More Like Denmark?



## Kirkhill (1 Mar 2016)

If Canada were like Denmark it would have a defence establishment of 450,000 people engaging 1.3% of the population.

It would have fielded a Brigade Group in Afghanistan instead of a Battle Group.

The RCN  would be equipped with 19 Iver Huitfeldt AAWs, 13 Absalon Cmd & Spt, 25 Thetis light frigates, 13 Knud Rasmussen AOPVs, 51 Armed Patrol Boats, 38 MCMVs and about a hundred other vessels, most of which would be assigned to the Coast Guard in Canada.

The RCAF would be equipped with 190 F16s (potentially to be replaced with a like number of F35s), 25 Hercs, 19 Challengers, 51 Fennecs, 51 Merlins for SAR (Cormorants), 38 TTH Merlins for battlefield support and 51 Lynxes for naval support.

The Canadian Army would operate a fleet of 361 Leo 2A5s with 63 AVLBs and 70 ARVs, 285 CV9035 and 2635 M113s.  It would also operate 570 Pirhanha IIIC (LAV IIIs), 576 Mowag Eagle IVs, 139 SF HMMWVs.

The Artillery would hold 76 M109s and 127 120mm mortars and the Infantry would hold570 60mm mortars and 4903 Carl Gustavs.

Logistically the force would have 13,935 Gwagens, something like 6300 3 tonners (MLVWs), 1200 16 tonners (MSVS-SMP) and 190 AHSVS.

All of this is supported by a defence budget of 1.3% of GDP vs Canada's 1.0%

Now the Danes do make a little more than we do (per capita GDP of 59,832 USD in 2013 vs our 51,958 USD) so their contribution is a bit higher than ours (about 777 USD per person per year to 505 USD) but I believe the biggest difference between Canada and Denmark lies in the participation rate of the people in their own defence.

As noted at the beginning 1.3% of the Danish population is actively engaged in managing the defence of Denmark and its interests.  In Canada the participation rate is only 25% of that or 0.3%.

Denmark's high participation rate stems from its Homeguard.  The unpaid national militia.

Continuing with translating Danish numbers into Canadian equivalents Denmark maintains the following:

A nominal roll of 268,248 unpaid volunteers who meet the minimum requirement of having 4 months basic training and parade 1 day a year.

Of that nominal roll 72,891 regularly parade for training purposes, at their own expense, 21 days per year.

Of the regular attendees 27,236 are enrolled in rapid deployment companies, with their weapon at home, on call. A similar engagement to volunteer fire departments and Coast Guard auxiliaries over here.

The Homeguard also maintains its own Special Force element the Special Support and Reconnaissance Company.

In addition to this all volunteer, unpaid force, Denmark as Canada fields a paid force of 49,772 junior enlisted who are mostly on short term contracts, 32,936 NCOs and 27,223 officers.

Homeguard officers can advance to the rank of Captain.  They are supported by permanent force officers.

The entire structure is managed and supported by 36,255 civil servants, many of whom will have experienced at least some form of military service.

The system is fed by 18 year olds.  Once a year all 18 year old males are required to report for medical exams and registration for conscription.  18 year old women are invited to volunteer at the same time.

This system creates many more registrants than slots available in the training system.  Registrants are then asked if they want to volunteer for service.  Apparently more than 95% of the slots are filled by volunteers. Some few may be compelled to serve but objectors can be excused.

This system would, in Canada as Denmark, generate an intake of 30,403 trainees. The trainees are paid for their service.

Once inducted the trainees serve for four months during which time they learn about the military, how to wear a uniform, maintain a rifle and sufficient military skills, like first aid and communications, to make them useful in emergency situations domestically.

After completing their initial four months they are effectively released and can go on with their lives, returning to the civilian world with no further obligations.

However different opportunities are made available.

The first level is the ex-conscript is eligible to volunteer for the unpaid Homeguard if they so choose.

The Homeguard not only acts as a backup to the Army, Navy and AirForce but it also has elements that support the police, the civil emergency services and infrastructure (rail, electricity, powerplants etc).

Trained conscripts are also eligible for paid service on various ceremonial duties (Foot and Horse Guard and Royal Yachts).  The Canadian equivalent would see 12,852 youngsters hired every year for 8 to 12 months of service on Parliament Hill and other public places.

Those trained conscripts that are interested in field soldiering can sign up for an additional 8 months of combat training followed by an active deployment contract of 6 months.  This is the system under which the Afghanistan commitment was maintained.

After completion of the deployment the returnee can quit,  re-up for another contract at a later date or apply for a position in the permanent force or the Homeguard.

The Danes use the word conscript, so I have used it here, but it appears to me that there is little to nothing of compulsion in their system. The people in uniform want to be in uniform.  They are just given a large variety of means to get there.

The Homeguard is also open to those that don't have basic training on the basis that they will complete an equivalent to basic programme on their own time.

Bringing this down to unit terms, the Danish system would mean that, assuming the 123 army reserve units in Canada became the portals through which the CAF were supplied with people then each unit of the reserves would maintain:

A nominal roll of 2181
A supp list reserve of 1588
An active reserve of 593 
A flank company of 221

Each year it would send 247 18-year olds for four months training of which 104 would sign up for another eight months of ceremonial duties.  In addition it would have 67 volunteers conducting basic training on their own time.

In addition the unit would have supplied 405 junior enlisted troops on active service contracts, 268 NCOs and 221 Officers to the regular force (Army, Navy and Air Force).

There would be the equivalent of 295 civil servants in comand and support roles.

I am guessing that many will argue that the necessary level of engagement is lacking in Canada.  Agreed. 

But perhaps that can change. 

In the territory of Canadian Rangers Patrol Group 1, covering the Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut, the Rangers recruit and maintain a force of 1800 rangers, exclusive of the junior Rangers.  That represents a participation rate of 1.3%.  Exactly the same as that of Denmark.

Alternately we can continue to spend 50% of our budget on people.

http://www2.forsvaret.dk/eng/About/Facts/Documents/Facts_And_Figures_UK.pdf
http://www.hjv.dk/sider/english.aspx


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## Spencer100 (1 Mar 2016)

Well we do have more LAV's then them in this calculation  [  But that's it.  And if you count the Eagles as the TAPV (future) you will be close.


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## my72jeep (1 Mar 2016)

We would have a land of blond haired, blue eyed women with perky upright tits, that spoke beautiful english. Ok I'm game.


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## cupper (1 Mar 2016)

And there would be no more fighting over Hans Island. [

But our hockey teams would suck.  :'(


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Mar 2016)

cupper said:
			
		

> But our hockey teams would suck.  :'(



Yeah! But we would curl with the coolest pants out there  ;D


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## larry Strong (1 Mar 2016)

Bestiality would be legal for those that like to seduce the canine, we would be the 2nd highest consumers of antidepressants globally, have the highest level of private debt in the world, the fourth largest per capita ecological footprint in the world and don't forget the highest taxes in the world (though only the sixth-highest wages – hence the debt, I guess).


I could go on for a bit more..........





Cheers
Larry


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## cavalryman (1 Mar 2016)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Bestiality would be legal for those that like to seduce the canine, we would be the 2nd highest consumers of antidepressants globally, have the highest level of private debt in the world, the fourth largest per capita ecological footprint in the world and don't forget the highest taxes in the world (though only the sixth-highest wages – hence the debt, I guess).
> 
> 
> I could go on for a bit more..........
> ...


And yet the lefties  hold Denmark along with the other Scandinavian countries up as examples to emulate.  Must be the idea of being allowed to screw the pooch all day long.  [


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## dimsum (1 Mar 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Yeah! But we would curl with the coolest pants out there  ;D



...that would be the Norwegian curling team.







But, the Danish women's team do have shirts saying "Titlis", which immature me thought hilarious:


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## OldSolduer (1 Mar 2016)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> We would have a land of blond haired, blue eyed women with perky upright tits, that spoke beautiful english. Ok I'm game.




Where do I sign up? >


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