# Infantry Officer - Degree Question



## BradM (16 Oct 2004)

Greetings,

Which Bachelors degrees are acceptable for entry into the Officer program?
Also I noticed on the information page it mentioned ROTP... that is not required for entry is it? For example I want to get a bachelor of Arts degree. Would this be ample education, also is there anything special I need to do once I get my degree?

I have been humming and hawing about joining the forces for so long it is crazy. I am now 20 and on my way to a degree and I think this is what I want to do with my life. Well actually I don't think, I know. To me, nothing is more noble and honorable than the forces.

Thank you kindly. I hope someone has some information for me.


----------



## hammerz (16 Oct 2004)

I finished with a BA in Soci, and CFRC told me my choices were Armour, Infantry, Mars (Navy), MP (DEO Plan)


----------



## BradM (16 Oct 2004)

Thanks Hammerz. Have you applied yet? Or are you in? Which did you decide to go with...?


----------



## DVessey (22 Oct 2004)

Yes, there are a few Infantry OCdts here(RMC) getting BA's, so I'm pretty sure it's acceptable


----------



## Tracker (22 Oct 2004)

I have some questions for you.  What year are you in?  What is your degree program?  What occupation are you interested in?


----------



## DVessey (22 Oct 2004)

Tracker said:
			
		

> I have some questions for you.  What year are you in?  What is your degree program?  What occupation are you interested in?



I'm just a little ol' first year, currently science/engineering looking at going for computer engineering. My MOC is Communications Electronics Engineer (Air).


----------



## Tracker (24 Oct 2004)

DVessey

I should have been more specific, I was asking BradM.


----------



## BradM (25 Oct 2004)

Tracker: By on my way I should mean applying to my school of choice. I have been out for awhile so I am now just getting in. As for job, I am interested in being an Infantry Officer.


----------



## Tracker (25 Oct 2004)

Why not try ROTP once you get into university?


----------



## hammerz (27 Oct 2004)

BradM, my choices went Armour, Infantry and Mars. I missed the Navy board, but am eagerly waiting for the Army board in early Nov.


----------



## CadetJ (9 Aug 2013)

Before anyone comments about repetition, I would like to confirm that there IS one or two posts about this topic. But I needed slightly different answers due to slightly different circumstances.**

I am planning to take a University degree in electrical or software engineering, and after achieving a degree (thus, keeping a backup in case I don't get accepted in the forces), I am planning on taking Direct Entry Plan. My VERY preferable choice in the job field is an Infantry Officer, Artillery or Armored as surplus choices. But as I have heard, the university degree preferably should be related to the job you want in the forces. I really don't want to take a psychology degree or history/politics degree, as they really interest me, but don't leave me with a lot of career options other than the Forces. Is there going to be a problem If I have the engineeering degree, and apply as an Infantry Officer. Would my interviewer ask me why I am not instead joining combat engineer or smthng?

*In case you guys are wondering why I am taking an engineering degree, when I am not interested in that fielld, its because engineering is a popular and largely vacant industry in canada. It will also please my parents to have a recognizable degree with a considerable chance of a job


----------



## UnwiseCritic (10 Aug 2013)

My words of advice, it's your life. Don't do something you don't want to do to, to please your parents. You might lose interest and be worse off... Again it's your life so use my advice or don't.

Secondly: Of the three officers whose degrees I'm aware of, one had a business degree, one had an art degree and lastly the other had a kinesiology degree. (I'm not aware of how having a degree means someone is fit to lead anyways) But what do I know?

Good Luck


----------



## JM2345 (10 Aug 2013)

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> My words of advice, it's your life. Don't do something you don't want to do to, to please your parents.



My words of advice are if your parents are willing to support you and give you the chance to go to University, do it, even if you aren't interested in the field/fields they are willing to pay for. I've done a lot just to please my parents, and it has helped me tremendously in my life. Everyone has different relationships with their parents, and different priorities for themselves, but this is my personal advice. If you are paying for it yourself/supporting yourself, your parents will likely be proud of you for completing any degree.

Your interviewer and the recruiting staff could ask you why you aren't taking something more related to your degree, and you being able to answer that is part of the interview. Even if they don't ask you that specifically, you are going to have to answer why you want to be an infantry officer at some point.

The recruiting staff have a list of "ideal" degrees, and "acceptable" degrees for every officer trade. Someone here might be able to tell you what they are at this time for infantry officer, or you might need to contact the recruiting center and ask them. I also think those "acceptable" and "ideal" can change over time though, so in 4 years they might not be the same. Someone with more experience can confirm/deny that here hopefully, or again that is something you can ask your recruiters.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (10 Aug 2013)

Doesn't matter what degree you have, as long as you have one.  I am a serving infantry officer and have a degree in political science.  I know some infantry officers with engineering degrees though so if you are interested in that route then go for it.

If you want more info, PM me.


----------



## CadetJ (10 Aug 2013)

JM2345 said:
			
		

> My words of advice are if your parents are willing to support you and give you the chance to go to University, do it, even if you aren't interested in the field/fields they are willing to pay for. I've done a lot just to please my parents, and it has helped me tremendously in my life. Everyone has different relationships with their parents, and different priorities for themselves, but this is my personal advice. If you are paying for it yourself/supporting yourself, your parents will likely be proud of you for completing any degree.
> 
> Your interviewer and the recruiting staff could ask you why you aren't taking something more related to your degree, and you being able to answer that is part of the interview. Even if they don't ask you that specifically, you are going to have to answer why you want to be an infantry officer at some point.
> 
> The recruiting staff have a list of "ideal" degrees, and "acceptable" degrees for every officer trade. Someone here might be able to tell you what they are at this time for infantry officer, or you might need to contact the recruiting center and ask them. I also think those "acceptable" and "ideal" can change over time though, so in 4 years they might not be the same. Someone with more experience can confirm/deny that here hopefully, or again that is something you can ask your recruiters.



You are right. I would have to answer why I chose an engineering degree, if I am interested in the Infantry field.


----------



## ballz (10 Aug 2013)

JM2345 said:
			
		

> Your interviewer and the recruiting staff could ask you why you aren't taking something more related to your degree, and you being able to answer that is part of the interview. Even if they don't ask you that specifically, you are going to have to answer why you want to be an infantry officer at some point.



I would be impressed with anyone who can give a good answer to how "x" degree is related to being an Infantry Officer. "Why you want to be an Infantry Officer" probably has little do with the program of study. While a few "Military strategic studies" programs exist, and I suppose its easy to make an argument they are "related," I haven't seen much any evidence that they make a better or worse Infantry Officer than a Bachelors of Science.



			
				JM2345 said:
			
		

> The recruiting staff have a list of "ideal" degrees, and "acceptable" degrees for every officer trade. Someone here might be able to tell you what they are at this time for infantry officer, or you might need to contact the recruiting center and ask them. I also think those "acceptable" and "ideal" can change over time though, so in 4 years they might not be the same. Someone with more experience can confirm/deny that here hopefully, or again that is something you can ask your recruiters.



For the longest time there was no "preferred" degree for Infantry O. I have heard that has changed but I have never seen the actual list. I'd be curious to see it... I remember seeing a list like it for a lot of other trades and the "preferred" degrees seemed right out to lunch to most posters IIRC.



			
				CadetJ said:
			
		

> Before anyone comments about repetition, I would like to confirm that there IS one or two posts about this topic. But I needed slightly different answers due to slightly different circumstances.**
> 
> I am planning to take a University degree in electrical or software engineering, and after achieving a degree (thus, keeping a backup in case I don't get accepted in the forces), I am planning on taking Direct Entry Plan. My VERY preferable choice in the job field is an Infantry Officer, Artillery or Armored as surplus choices. But as I have heard, the university degree preferably should be related to the job you want in the forces. I really don't want to take a psychology degree or history/politics degree, as they really interest me, but don't leave me with a lot of career options other than the Forces. Is there going to be a problem If I have the engineeering degree, and apply as an Infantry Officer. Would my interviewer ask me why I am not instead joining combat engineer or smthng?
> 
> *In case you guys are wondering why I am taking an engineering degree, when I am not interested in that fielld, its because engineering is a popular and largely vacant industry in canada. It will also please my parents to have a recognizable degree with a considerable chance of a job



I'd bet the interviewer would have more important questions (which are standardized for him for the most part) than bickering about which program you "ought to" have done or whatever.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be diving into a program like engineering if my heart wasn't in it, and I would certainly recommend against trying to please your parents. There are other programs that would probably suit your interests that would also have decent job prospects. Not necessarily the same kind of job prospects engineering has, but c'est la vie.


----------



## dimsum (11 Aug 2013)

If you want a degree that will have job potential in the civilian sector, why not something related to Health Care?  I don't just mean Med or Nursing school, but Kinesiology, Health Science, etc.  As Baby Boomers retire, they'll definitely need someone to take care of their health.  

I'll echo that Engineering isn't for someone who wants a degree "to please the parents".  They have a much higher course load than pretty much any other program, and you might start second-guessing your choice when you're spending more time at the library (or wherever you study) than anywhere else.


----------



## CadetJ (14 Aug 2013)

ballz said:
			
		

> I would be impressed with anyone who can give a good answer to how "x" degree is related to being an Infantry Officer. "Why you want to be an Infantry Officer" probably has little do with the program of study. While a few "Military strategic studies" programs exist, and I suppose its easy to make an argument they are "related," I haven't seen much any evidence that they make a better or worse Infantry Officer than a Bachelors of Science.
> 
> For the longest time there was no "preferred" degree for Infantry O. I have heard that has changed but I have never seen the actual list. I'd be curious to see it... I remember seeing a list like it for a lot of other trades and the "preferred" degrees seemed right out to lunch to most posters IIRC.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking your time and replying to my post. As you said, there are no preferable degrees for an Infantry Officer. I confirmed this by talking to a local recruiter, who said an I.O does not need any specific degrees, as long as they HAVE  a degree from an acclaimed college or university.


----------



## DAA (14 Aug 2013)

ballz said:
			
		

> I would be impressed with anyone who can give a good answer to how "x" degree is related to being an Infantry Officer. "Why you want to be an Infantry Officer" probably has little do with the program of study. While a few "Military strategic studies" programs exist, and I suppose its easy to make an argument they are "related," I haven't seen much any evidence that they make a better or worse Infantry Officer than a Bachelors of Science.
> 
> For the longest time there was no "preferred" degree for Infantry O. I have heard that has changed but I have never seen the actual list. I'd be curious to see it... I remember seeing a list like it for a lot of other trades and the "preferred" degrees seemed right out to lunch to most posters IIRC.
> 
> ...



Sure, here is the jist of why an Officer in the CF requires a University degree....

"On 25 March 1997 the Minister of National Defence submitted a report to the Prime Minister of Canada, which changed policies to make a university degree a prerequisite to commissioning as an officer.
In February 2001 the Minister of National Defence signed strategic guidance for the CF Officer Corps and the Officer Professional Development System, entitled Canadian Officership in the 21st Century (Officership 2020). 
One of the eight strategic objectives of Officership 2020 is to develop officers who think critically, the ability to conceptualize and develop innovative solutions through intellectual openness and objectivity.
*Successful completion of a baccalaureate degree is a very good indicator that the graduate has the requisite intellectual openness that the CF is looking for.*"

DEO Infantry academic requirements........

*IDEAL Academics*
*Bachelor of Engineering*
General
Engineering and Management
*Bachelor of Science*
General
*Bachelor of Arts*
Administration
Conflict Studies
General
HR Mgmt
Int'l Studies
Languages
Mil and Strat Studies

It is also "acceptable" to have ANY undergraduate degree from a recognized Canadian University.  

So I would assume that having a degree in the "ideal" category would possibly result in someone being rated higher than someone with an "acceptable" degree.


----------



## ballz (14 Aug 2013)

DAA said:
			
		

> Sure, here is the jist of why an Officer in the CF requires a University degree....



I'm not sure where I asked "why an Officer in the CF requires a university degree" but thank you for posting the answer anyway, as this part



> *"Successful completion of a baccalaureate degree is a very good indicator that the graduate has the requisite intellectual openness that the CF is looking for."*



was humerous if nothing else.



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> DEO Infantry academic requirements........
> 
> *IDEAL Academics*
> *Bachelor of Engineering*
> ...



Are you saying the entire list is the "ideal" ones, or just the bolded ones? An odd selection of "preferred," either way...


----------



## lyndsay (15 Aug 2013)

The bolded ones are the different departments in which those degrees are granted. Ie, a degree in Languages _is_ a Bachelor of Arts degree. 

I myself have a Bachelor of Arts in History, which is considered an "acceptable" degree to have as an infantry officer. This would mean I would have received a lower score than an applicant applying against me who had an Ideal degree (which are the listed ones)... If that helps to put it in perspective.


----------



## ballz (15 Aug 2013)

Right, that makes more sense now. I forgot the powers-that-be don't consider Business to be its own faculty, so they stick things like "HR Mgmt" and "Administrations" under Arts (which is done at RMC... and not very many other places).

Anywho, the list is as curious as I had expected it to be. Unfortunately, we'll never get to hear the rhyme or reason to it (I suspect there wasn't much anyway...). Why would B.Sc (General) be more preferred to B.Sc (this and that)? Or B.A. (General) be preferred to... well... anything really... would have been nice to be a fly on the wall during those discussions.


----------



## UnwiseCritic (15 Aug 2013)

Someone probably used big words and sounded smart while everyone sat around nodding their heads.
(edited for correct use of their)

I was the one that wanted to know why a degree was required... I should have never asked. I think some essays, problem solving tests both hands on and written coupled with an interview board would achieve the same goal. However at least the degree keeps them from being 18/19 when they get put in charge.


----------



## George Wallace (15 Aug 2013)

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> Someone probably used big words and sounded smart while everyone sat around nodding they're heads.
> 
> I was the one that wanted to know why a degree was required... I should have never asked. I think some essays, problem solving tests both hands on and written coupled with an interview board would achieve the same goal. However at least the degree keeps them from being 18/19 when they get put in charge.



It was a political decision, not a CAF one.


----------



## UnwiseCritic (15 Aug 2013)

FUBAR...





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> It was a political decision, not a CAF one.



A lot of that going around


----------



## The_Falcon (15 Aug 2013)

ballz said:
			
		

> Anywho, the list is as curious as I had expected it to be. Unfortunately, we'll never get to hear the rhyme or reason to it (I suspect there wasn't much anyway...). Why would B.Sc (General) be more preferred to B.Sc (this and that)? Or B.A. (General) be preferred to... well... anything really... would have been nice to be a fly on the wall during those discussions.



Ask a PSO, figuring this stuff out, and updating/amending the lists of ideal/acceptable programs for various occupations (among other things), is their job.


----------



## The_Falcon (15 Aug 2013)

ballz said:
			
		

> Anywho, the list is as curious as I had expected it to be. Unfortunately, we'll never get to hear the rhyme or reason to it (I suspect there wasn't much anyway...). Why would B.Sc (General) be more preferred to B.Sc (this and that)? Or B.A. (General) be preferred to... well... anything really... would have been nice to be a fly on the wall during those discussions.



PSO's are the ones who make these decisions, or would at least advice the people who make these decisions.  Their job is lot more than just, getting Cpl Bloggins his VOT.


----------

