# Orlando - International Terrorism or Home-Grown Terrorism?



## Old Sweat (14 Jun 2016)

Both President Obama and Prime Minister Trudeau have described the Orlando attack as a home-grown terrorist attack as there are no indications that it was directed by a formed terrorist organization. I question this as part of revolutionary warfare in its early stages, which includes terrorist attacks, is to encourage attacks by individuals and groups that are not formally affiliated with any organization. My reading on and admittedly sporadic study of the theories of revolutionary warfare and the response to it date from shortly after I was commissioned in 1961. A lot of movements have come and gone since then, and the west collectively seem no less capable of dealing with it then we were fifty years ago. From my point of view, just because a terrorist attack is not conducted under the supervision or direction of a formed body does not make it any less part of an international movement such as one of the Islamist terrorist groups. It also does not make it any less serious, although that may be the rationale for a characterization such as home-grown.


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## Colin Parkinson (14 Jun 2016)

The problem is that our definitions have not caught up with the changing nature of terror. AQ is very much different from ISIS, beyond the caliphate goal AQ was always a top down structure with a fair bit of control of all players, with detailed bureaucracy to support it. 
ISIS has two elements, one the regional element focused on creating the Caliphate and a functioning state, which is highly organized and with strict discipline. The other element of ISIS is the one that projects outward from the region, using social media, sympathizers and organizers in various countries. The task of these people and the social media is to garner support and to encourage free lancers. Some will receive some sort of direct aid when possible, others are merely encouraged to act in their name. It’s a good strategy for them, maximum effect with minimal investment. With an audience of 1.6 billion, you only need a tiny percentage to cause chaos. 
Now that AQ has been badly dismembered the remaining members are attempting to adopt the secondary part of ISIS to remain relevant.


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## tomahawk6 (14 Jun 2016)

Then in France we have a new twist,the jihadists killed a high ranking police officer and his wife at their home.Talk about terrorizing the security forces.


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## jollyjacktar (14 Jun 2016)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Then in France we have a new twist,the jihadists killed a high ranking police officer and his wife at their home.Talk about terrorizing the security forces.



And according to his final video made on scene, he was a true lone wolf answering the call of the daesh nutjobs in Raqqa.


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## The Bread Guy (14 Jun 2016)

Seems to be the pattern, indeed:

ISIS/ISIL says anyone can carry out an act of terror in their name.
ISIS/ISIL tells supporters they should pledge allegiance in a public forum, before carrying out an attack.
ISIS/ISIL floods the interwebs with propaganda hoping to incite anyone (including those with mental illness), then claims responsiblity.


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## Lightguns (14 Jun 2016)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Then in France we have a new twist,the jihadists killed a high ranking police officer and his wife at their home.Talk about terrorizing the security forces.



Back in the day in England, almost everyone in uniform cleared their car for bombs daily and many carried concealed in response to the IRA.  That maybe where they are going to have to go.


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## The Bread Guy (14 Jun 2016)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Back in the day in England, almost everyone in uniform cleared their car for bombs daily and many carried concealed in response to the IRA.  That maybe where they are going to have to go.


It'll have to get a lot worse on a consistent basis for most civilians to buy into this approach, though.


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## Lightguns (14 Jun 2016)

Here in la la land sure, but elite French police units are already carrying 24/7 and the French must be getting weary of this. Many beat cops who never thought of carrying must be getting worried about being in uniform without a gun. 

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


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## Jed (14 Jun 2016)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Back in the day in England, almost everyone in uniform cleared their car for bombs daily and many carried concealed in response to the IRA.  That maybe where they are going to have to go.



It will most likely take quite a while for any public acceptance of this in Canada but I fear that this is what the future will hold. Especially if our political leaders continue to deny and / or refuse to name the primary threat.


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## The Bread Guy (14 Jun 2016)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Here in la la land sure, but elite French police units are already carrying 24/7 and the French must be getting weary of this. Many beat cops who never thought of carrying must be getting worried about being in uniform without a gun.


Based on my limited experience in Italy, I'm guessing people may actually be more used to "guns in the streets" (at least on their cops) than we are in North America.  A lot of European countries have paramilitary police (Italy's Carabinieri, France's Gendarmerie Nationale, Spain's Guardia Civil, etc.) that people are used to seeing in the street.  Add to that the fact that many European countries still have "show me ID or I can throw you in jail just for refusing or not having ID" rules, I don't know if they're weary yet.


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## Haggis (14 Jun 2016)

Jed said:
			
		

> It will most likely take quite a while for any public acceptance of this in Canada but I fear that this is what the future will hold. Especially if our political leaders continue to deny and / or refuse to name the primary threat.



Given about a dozen armed federal law enforcement agencies, two provincial police forces (plus sheriffs) and hundreds of provincial and municipal armed agencies, coordination of such a policy would be nightmarish.


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## Brad Sallows (14 Jun 2016)

>Both President Obama and Prime Minister Trudeau have described the Orlando attack as a home-grown terrorist attack

I don't buy that line; it's just the standard jumping off point for politicians to use an event to pursue other political agendas and fit the event within their preferred story lines.  This stuff is being incited abroad.


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## cupper (15 Jun 2016)

The new spin to develop will be that it was an act of desperation by someone who could not come to grips with his own sexuality. :dunno:

There has been a lot of references in the US news to the two lone wolf incidents that took place last fall in Canada that took the lives of members of the CAF.


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## Remius (25 Jun 2016)

cupper said:
			
		

> The new spin to develop will be that it was an act of desperation by someone who could not come to grips with his own sexuality. :dunno:
> .



And so far it seems to be spin.  

http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/25/fbi-no-evidence-that-orlando-shooter-was-gay/


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## The Bread Guy (25 Jun 2016)

Remius said:
			
		

> And so far it seems to be spin.
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/25/fbi-no-evidence-that-orlando-shooter-was-gay/


Thanks for sharing that - another critical tile in the mosaic from a usually pretty good source.


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## jollyjacktar (25 Jun 2016)

Somewhere to go if you're ever in Orlando and need to take a piss.  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658190/Pictured-unmarked-grave-Muslim-cemetery-near-Miami-Orlando-shooter-quietly-buried.html


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## mariomike (25 Jun 2016)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Somewhere to go if you're ever in Orlando and need to take a piss.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658190/Pictured-unmarked-grave-Muslim-cemetery-near-Miami-Orlando-shooter-quietly-buried.html





The perp is on findagrave,
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=mateen&GSfn=omar+&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=166041382&df=all&

I hope they turn his flowers off.


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## a_majoor (4 Jul 2016)

The story becomes stranger: where is the wife of the shooter? While this is a bit tin foil hat, the author does raise an interesting point: a very high profile case like this is normally the subject of a media feeding frenzy. Where is the frenzy?

https://medium.com/@LilMissRightie/where-is-noor-salman-and-the-media-that-covered-up-here-disappearance-f578b39bfc6e#.smz7gnxt0



> *Where is Noor Salman and the media that covered up her “disappearance”?*
> 
> Where is Noor Salman? More importantly, where is the media on her overnight disappearance in the wake of her husband’s terrorist attack on the Pulse nightclub?
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (4 Jul 2016)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The story becomes stranger: where is the wife of the shooter? While this is a bit tin foil hat, the author does raise an interesting point: a very high profile case like this is normally the subject of a media feeding frenzy. Where is the frenzy?
> 
> https://medium.com/@LilMissRightie/where-is-noor-salman-and-the-media-that-covered-up-here-disappearance-f578b39bfc6e#.smz7gnxt0


Oh, I think we'll hear about her again in due time ...


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