# element change



## MaKavelius.Prime (5 Apr 2010)

I tried searching for an answer, but the search came up with nothing.  My question is......  If one is in a purple trade, we'll say RMS Clerk for example.   How does one go from being Airforce to Army?   

I haven't been able to get any answers from my CoC, as I expect its not a popular question.  Anyone I ask just gives me the whole, "Its only the color of your beret,  what does it matter?"  type answer.  I was hoping someone here would have some insight on this.


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## ModlrMike (5 Apr 2010)

There was a message issued on this subject several years back. Perhaps a CANFORGEN. In essence I think it said something to the effect of writing to the career manager.


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## George Wallace (5 Apr 2010)

MaKavelius.Prime said:
			
		

> I haven't been able to get any answers from my CoC, .........



That is a sad reflection on your CoC.

It is probably best answered by ModlrMike, in that you can write a memo requesting a change of Element to your Career Mgr.  Several people on this site have changed Elements in the past; some more than once.


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## Halifax Tar (5 Apr 2010)

I know a few people who have switched uniform and all it too was a request form with a memo attached addressed to the CM i would say that would be a good start. 

P.S. If your not in a Naval unit don't go around asking for a request form its a purely naval admin doc AFAIK so just use the memo addressed to the CM approach.


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## CountDC (6 Apr 2010)

The CANFORGEN is 029/02  http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2002/029-02_e.asp

The request is submitted to the CO who then sends it to D MIL C if he/she supports it.


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## LoKe (13 Apr 2010)

Not sure if it falls in this forum category but it's as close as I can find.

For whatever reason, I'd like to switch my element from Navy to Army.  I'm in a purple trade so it won't have any impact on my trade or training.

What are the requirements to do this, and what is the process?

I'd appreciate the help!


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## armyvern (13 Apr 2010)

LoKe said:
			
		

> Not sure if it falls in this forum category but it's as close as I can find.
> 
> For whatever reason, I'd like to switch my element from Navy to Army.  I'm in a purple trade so it won't have any impact on my trade or training.
> 
> ...



Simply write up a memo explaining your wish to change (some reasons behind it would help) and submit it through your supervisor to your Unit Senior Tech who sends it to careers ... who ultimately decide; if they approve, they will cut a message officially acknowledging the change & date of effectiveness. That message would then allow you to contact clothing stores to make an appointment to have your "initial issue" of the new enviornmental dress uniform ordered/issued to you (without having to use your own points).


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## LoKe (13 Apr 2010)

Simpler than I thought.

I heard mention that you had to wait five years before being eligible.  That sounded odd to me.

Thanks for the help!


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## armyvern (13 Apr 2010)

LoKe said:
			
		

> Simpler than I thought.
> 
> I heard mention that you had to wait five years before being eligible.  That sounded odd to me.
> 
> Thanks for the help!



You have 5 years from date of enrollment/transfer to pick up the entire "initial issue" of your DEU "free of charge". For example, if you come to clothing stores 5 years and 1 day after you enrolled and say "I need my initial issue of my DEU sweater because I never got issued it" --- you'd be on your own.

Also remember, that each trade has a "limit" on the number of pers in each "enviornmental uniform", so if your trades "number of land uniform positions" are full ... careers may "deny" your request.


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## LoKe (13 Apr 2010)

Sounds great.  I initially picked Navy because I was told they reached their land quota.  It was either that or wait until the next fiscal year for a slot to open, and I wasn't going to let something like that make me wait.  But now if I can get the element I originally wanted, I'd be happy.  

As a side note: If they do deny my request stating that they are full, will I be merit listed for the spot once it opens up?


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## armyvern (13 Apr 2010)

LoKe said:
			
		

> Sounds great.  I initially picked Navy because I was told they reached their land quota.  It was either that or wait until the next fiscal year for a slot to open, and I wasn't going to let something like that make me wait.  But now if I can get the element I originally wanted, I'd be happy.
> 
> As a side note: If they do deny my request stating that they are full, will I be merit listed for the spot once it opens up?



Interesting question - and one that you'd have to ask your Snr Tech to confirm with careers.

I have no idea if you'd have to resubmit or not. I know that my own change of uniform request was approved more than a year after I had submitted my request to do so.

Mind you, I was deployed during that 'lag time' so perhaps that's why they waited. Perhaps the quota was "filled" when I requested and they "held" until position became avail, or if it just took them that long to answer. I don't know, so I can't say. But, I did have one of my pers "switch" last year from Navy to Land --- his approval was back from careers in message form only 1 week after I handed his memo over to the Snr Tech.


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## SeanNewman (13 Apr 2010)

Loke,

Keep in mind that although the process may seem less involved than you may have thought, it is still a relatively massive undertaking in terms of process and paperwork.

I regularly do Per File Reviews on Sgts with ~15 years of experience, and if they have gone though an OT of any sort that paperwork takes up fully half of their file.

That's not to say that you will personally be the one doing all of that paperwork (it's mostly chain of command and administrative in nature), but all that to say don't expect to hand in a memo on Monday, get approved on Tuesday, clear out of your unit Wednesday, hand in your old element clothes Thursday, pick up your new element cloths Friday, and start your new job on the following Monday.

I wish you the best of luck, but that one simple memo submitted on your part will get a lot of gears turning in the big machine.


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## PMedMoe (13 Apr 2010)

The OP is asking about an _element_ transfer, not an _occupational_ transfer.


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## armyvern (13 Apr 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Loke,
> 
> Keep in mind that although the process may seem less involved than you may have thought, it is still a relatively massive undertaking in terms of process and paperwork.
> 
> ...



Granted, gears will be turning ... but at a much lower tempo than the wheels that grind when OTing or CTing.

He only wants to switch uniforms, not trades. The entire process took 1 week to accomplish for one of my former subordinates as positions were avail in the requested env for his rank. MPRR was updated (by an RMS clerk somewhere) to reflect the new enviornment and to amend the manning lists to delete one pers from the Naval env and +1 to the land env quotas.


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## Biohazardxj (13 Apr 2010)

I had this question put to me while I was an instructor at PRETC.  I do not remember the reference, but the answer was that the member had to wait 5 years after completion of QL5 before they could apply for a change of DEU.  Try searching the CFAOs or DAODs.


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## SeanNewman (13 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> The OP is asking about an _element_ transfer, not an _occupational_ transfer.



You are right, and I am wrong  

I fully admit that I quickly skimmed it while watching TV, and now I have been owned for not paying attention to detail.


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## armyvern (13 Apr 2010)

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> I had this question put to me while I was an instructor at PRETC.  I do not remember the reference, but the answer was that the member had to wait 5 years after completion of QL5 before they could apply for a change of DEU.  Try searching the CFAOs or DAODs.



If so, that's a change. Mine occured 3 years after my 5s ... and my troop only had 7 years in the CF. Perhaps 5 years after QL3s possibly?? Or, a change in the rules??

OR: _Gawd forbid!!_
A clerical/admin error made by our Career Managers on the "TI after 5s qual" requirement which will cause them to come hunt me down tommorow and "revoke" my land uniform!!  

Not on the DIN right now; can't confirm either way/course etc.


Edited to add the _Gawd forbid _ bit. Yikes.


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## PMedMoe (14 Apr 2010)

Here's a CANFORGEN from Apr 2002

CHANGE OF DISCTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU)



> IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED ELIGIBLE TO SUBMIT A CHANGE OF DEU REQUEST, BASIC TRAINING MUST HAVE BEEN COMPLETED AND THE MEMBER MUST HAVE SERVED FIVE YEARS BEYOND THE SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF MOC TRAINING



I'm reading that to be 5 years after QL3, not QL5 training.


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## George Wallace (14 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Here's a CANFORGEN from Apr 2002
> 
> CHANGE OF DISCTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU)
> 
> I'm reading that to be 5 years after QL3, not QL5 training.



 ;D

Some Trades don't have QL3, they only have QL5.


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## PMedMoe (14 Apr 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> Some Trades don't have QL3, they only have QL5.



But normally only trades one OTs to get into.  For instance, PMed starts at QL5 but I was QL3 qualified as a Med Tech.


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## George Wallace (14 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> But normally only trades one OTs to get into.  For instance, PMed starts at QL5 but I was QL3 qualified as a Med Tech.



True.......Until they open it/them up to hiring off the street.     ;D


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## armyvern (14 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Here's a CANFORGEN from Apr 2002
> 
> CHANGE OF DISCTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU)
> 
> I'm reading that to be 5 years after QL3, not QL5 training.



~Whew~

That means no one is going to show up here at the base today looking to strip my uniform off of me.


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## Biohazardxj (14 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Here's a CANFORGEN from Apr 2002
> 
> CHANGE OF DISCTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU)
> 
> I'm reading that to be 5 years after QL3, not QL5 training.



You're correct.  I should have said QL3 not QL5.


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## CountDC (21 Apr 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> ~Whew~
> 
> That means no one is going to show up here at the base today looking to strip my uniform off of me.



Well now I wouldn't be so sure of that, it seems a few on here would volunteer for that job anyway.  >


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## LoKe (24 Apr 2010)

Five years after the completion of QL3's?  Jesus...that's going to be about 6-7 years from now.


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## ballz (24 Apr 2010)

A course mate of mine, who had applied as an Army Log O, and then found out that this summer he'd be doing CAP, decided to switch to Navy and now he'll be doing NETPO this summer.

If he decides in x years he wants to switch back to Army, are they going to make him do CAP? 

If not, (this comment is not directed towards the OP) it seems like a cheap way of getting out of a good course just because you're lazy (albeit, I have no idea what NETPO entails, although I have been told it's not physical whatsoever) and still getting something you haven't rightfully earned...


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## George Wallace (24 Apr 2010)

ballz

In all likelihood, (the example of your friend that you gave) he would have to do CAP, or whatever it will be called now and later, should he decide that Navy is not his cup of tea.  I have seen Captains doing the CAP portion of training in the past.


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## medic1sd (27 Aug 2013)

i submitted a memo through my chain of command, to change from airforce to army, as it is just a deu change for me as i am a purple trade (medic). i was just told that because i only have 3 years after my ql3 that my officer isn't pushing it higher. cause apparently you need 5 years with one reference i got off here, i been the military going on 7 years all as a medic, but because of injuries and training waits  it took till Jan 2010 for me to get my 3's, i guess my question is do i still have to wait two years? and are they allowed to do that ?


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## DAA (27 Aug 2013)

medic1sd said:
			
		

> i submitted a memo through my chain of command, to change from airforce to army, as it is just a deu change for me as i am a purple trade (medic). i was just told that because i only have 3 years after my ql3 that my officer isn't pushing it higher. cause apparently you need 5 years with one reference i got off here, i been the military going on 7 years all as a medic, but because of injuries and training waits  it took till Jan 2010 for me to get my 3's, i guess my question is do i still have to wait two years? and are they allowed to do that ?



Has NO impact what so ever on unit operations, so what's the big deal?


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## PMedMoe (27 Aug 2013)

If the reference you got from here (at least that's how I read your comment) was the one I posted here, the required time _after_ completion of MOC training is five years.  Your time in the CF has nothing to do with it.  And yes, they are allowed to not approve your request.



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> Has NO impact what so ever on unit operations, so what's the big deal?



Cost savings maybe?    :dunno:


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## caocao (27 Aug 2013)

Could be that they are trying to maintain a certain ratio.


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## George Wallace (27 Aug 2013)

caocao said:
			
		

> Could be that they are trying to maintain a certain ratio.




 ???


Not likely.


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## MJP (27 Aug 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> 
> Not likely.



Very likely actually.  Each purple trade has a set % of folks that should be in each element and the career shop(s) tries to balance it based on those %s


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## caocao (27 Aug 2013)

Yes, for the CE trades it used to be 60/40 (air/army) but we got it changed to 50/50.  Right in the middle of the Afghan conflict we were getting inondated with requests to change to army because the younger generation thought that it was "sexy".  We had to put some control measures in place to try maintain said ratio.


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## DAA (28 Aug 2013)

After further review, CANFORGEN 029/02 applies and this is also the current policy shown in the CF Dress Manual (APM-265), Chap 2, Sect 1, para 10. NOTE.

Summed up, the policy applies ONLY to support MOS ID's (ie; occupations where the managing authority is NOT CMS, CLS or CAS) and "the member must have served five years beyond the successful completion of MOS ID training" for starters.


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## Journeyman (28 Aug 2013)

caocao said:
			
		

> .....requests to change to army because the younger generation thought that it was "sexy"


Obviously, it is.


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## danteh (14 Jul 2018)

I recently accepted a VOT to a purple trade. During my application process with the BPSO I had mentioned to him that I wanted to switch to Army (from Air Force). When I got my VOT message it stated that I was still Air Force and when noticed and asking the BPSO about it he mentioned that he forgot to add the change in the application that if I still wanted to do it that I should put a memo up my CoC. Is this still address to D MIL C? I saw the CANFORGEN 029/02 though another topic on the forums but that was back in 2013. Also is this just a standard memo of who I am, what I want, and why? And how good do my reasons have to be? Mine are basically just my family have been in the Air Force and the Navy but never the Army and I honestly just prefer the Army kit/DEUs.

I know my element wont have any impact on anything other then the kit I wear and that it is all a numbers game for filling each element within purple trades, I just want to get everything sorted out before I start of my new trade as an administrative burden... 

Cheers


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