# Getting that First Hook



## Bull_STR (12 Oct 2006)

A Cpl about a year ago told me that a NO HOOK can recieve his HOOK before 30 months.  I no longer know where to find this person that told me this so I ask you all this question.

How does one go about at getting thier HOOK before 30 months?

This is not so much for me but my Sgt says that he does not believe it is possable anymore and asked me to find out if it is or isnt.

This is my delema.  I have no idea where to look.  Please give me some advice you old timers (lol J/K) on where I can find this sort of information so I know where to look for future references to many other things.

Thanks for your time and help.


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## glenndon (12 Oct 2006)

CFAO 49-4 -- CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE

While browsing through this CFAO, Annex A Table 2 deals with Accelerated promotions for most trades.  It does not deal with getting Pte(T) earlier.

It does say that the approving authority for promotions from Pte(R) to Cpl and all inbetween, is the members Commanding Officer.


Glenn


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## orange.paint (12 Oct 2006)

Bull_STR said:
			
		

> This is not so much for me but my Sgt says that he does not believe it is possable anymore and asked me to find out if it is or isnt.



If your a private he proably should look for you.If you were a cpl he could call it "building job knowledge" i.e CFAO familiarzation etc.
I dunno maybe I'm being anal but it sounds kind of lazy to me.
Remember you can only recieve one advance promotion in your career IIRC.Whats the big deal about a hook anyway?


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## 211RadOp (12 Oct 2006)

Back when I was a young Rad Op (no jokes here please) you had to have completed 30 months of service and have completed QL4. Now, there is no QL4 anymore, so I would imagine it is still 30 months.


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## Bull_STR (12 Oct 2006)

099* said:
			
		

> If your a private he proably should look for you.If you were a cpl he could call it "building job knowledge" i.e CFAO familiarzation etc.
> I dunno maybe I'm being anal but it sounds kind of lazy to me.
> Remember you can only recieve one advance promotion in your career IIRC.Whats the big deal about a hook anyway?



No no it wasnt an order or anything like that.  It was a more if you really want to know 100% then find out for yourself.  figure it out then if you cant find it we can go from there kind of thing.

Thanks for the info glenndon


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## Radop (22 Oct 2006)

The answer is 30 months cut and dry.  It is laid out in the earlier mentioned CFAO.  This being said, if you have time in the reserves, it also depends on how much time you were credited before getting in.  Further to that, you cannot and do not enter the promotion zone until 36 mos.  Another words, if you are looking forward to something and think that you might be recognized as being able to lead at the cpl level, then you can be written up to get it early.  The thing is, they have to write you up.  You can request it all you want (although that would make me not write you up).  As a Cpl, MCpl and Sgt, I have helped or written up 5 people who I thought were deserving members to receive their Cpls early.  I also wrote how early I thought that they should get them, for instance, 2 were recommended for 1 yr, 2 six months and one for 4 mos accellerated promoted.  All were promoted based on the support from the chain of command.  It is a lot of work to write one of these and requires supporting documentation.  I start with the shaddow file and if it is not up to date and accurately reflective of the person's ability to accept the responsibility of an accelerated promotion, then I won't even start it on them.  Hopefully this helps.


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## klacquement (25 Oct 2006)

Depends on your training program.  For example the Naval Combat Systems Technical Training Program (NCSTTP) gives its candidates QL3 and QL5 training straight out of recruit school.  For some lucky folks (such as myself), QL3 training is completed _before_ BMQ.  On completion, 25 months after the program begins, graduates receive their second hook.

We had 16 months to first hook, and 9 from first to second.


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## Radop (10 Nov 2006)

My appologies as I was looking at only the army and airforce signals training.  As stated in my earlier response, you can get credit for courses you already have if it meets trade requirements.  There are specialty programs such as the one you are talking about but they are far and few between in the forces.  If you have a diploma that directly relates to your choosen trade, you could get up to $20 000 and enter as a Cpl.  As he came in as a Pte, and likely no qualifications that could be carried over to his trade (I am assuming he is a Sig Op) so what I said would stand.


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## D3V1L6 (16 Nov 2006)

Your grasping at straws if your looking for an advanced promotion to Pte Trained...they dont even do it in the infantry, and the pretty much set the standard for advanced promotions.   My recommendation is do you time, theres nothing wrong with it, you'll gain more knowledge and respect.


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## Radop (20 Nov 2006)

D3V1L6 said:
			
		

> Your grasping at straws if your looking for an advanced promotion to Pte Trained...they dont even do it in the infantry, and the pretty much set the standard for advanced promotions.   My recommendation is do you time, theres nothing wrong with it, you'll gain more knowledge and respect.



That's funny as we advance promoted 3 out of 14 in our troop last year and 5 in our Sqn.  I don't know how many in the Regiment as a whole.  Our CO must not have gotten the notice from the Infantry CO who sets the standard.  In case you haven't noticed, Sig Ops are getting promoted fast right now because of the number of people getting out.  It is leaving a void in the cpl rank that we are trying to fill with deserving Ptes.  Problem is that most guys are getting promoted after two years at the Cpl rank.  Unfortunately, it is making the difference between Sgt and MCpl larger and larger.  Pretty soon we won't have any CFLs only MCFLs.  The only fear I have is that it will eventually hurt our trade.


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## Bull_STR (21 Nov 2006)

Ok as I stated in the very first post I made.  I am *NOT* looking so much to do this.  But to find out if it is still a possability.


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## aesop081 (21 Nov 2006)

Bull_STR said:
			
		

> Ok as I stated in the very first post I made.  I am *NOT* looking so much to do this.  But to find out if it is still a possability.  I swear everytime I come on here I see posts by people that dont even read what is posted.  Communication.  real simple.  Instead of blowing off the top half way through a post maybe people could practice reading and understanding what they read.  Is it any wonder only a small portion of people post on this site.  I have suggested this site to so many people that express that they have been here and will never come back, hmmm I wonder why. :



Are we safe to assume you will be next ?


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## MOOXE (21 Nov 2006)

D3V1L6 said:
			
		

> Your grasping at straws if your looking for an advanced promotion to Pte Trained...they dont even do it in the infantry, and the pretty much set the standard for advanced promotions.   My recommendation is do you time, theres nothing wrong with it, you'll gain more knowledge and respect.



My recommendation is do everything you can do to get advanced promoted. The reasoning quoted above is wrong, totally wrong. Getting advanced promoted doesn't limit what experience and respect you gain, it advances them. Go for goals that encourage you to be a better soldier, set the example for others, by all means do whatever it takes to better yourself. Your chain of command will recognize this and reward you appropriately at the very least that'swhat they should do, thats what I would do. Why would you tell someone to aim low?

The only reasoning I think D3V1L6 is using is that if you get advanced promoted, you may not be one of the guys anymore, the guys will be jealous and think your some sort of bag licker and will lose respect for you. Am I right, or close? Well screw those types of guys! My friends would be happy for me if I was advanced promoted. 

Care to explain how adv. prom. will limit your experience?


(edited because spell checker and quotes didnt work)


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2006)

:

This is starting to sound an awful like the people who are whining because they don't have enough medals or badges to prove that they are 'a somebody'.


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## armyvern (21 Nov 2006)

30 months TI is required to receive the first hook. I'm not at work until Friday, but I know there is a ref out there somewhere on this. Accelerated promotions can then be made to the rank of Cpl or higher, but a member can only be accelerated once in his/her career.

The only instance I have ever seen of someone getting their hook early was when they enrolled in the CF and were granted "6 months of prior service" towards both "rank & pay" due to qualifications/experience they had prior to enlisting. And that prior experience was not as a Res in this case.


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## aesop081 (21 Nov 2006)

MOOXE said:
			
		

> you may not be one of the guys anymore,



he wont be "one of the guys " if he gets his hook early ?

WTF


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2006)

The above advice/statement from The Librarian is probably the most accurate to follow on this issue.


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## MOOXE (21 Nov 2006)

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> he wont be "one of the guys " if he gets his hook early ?
> 
> WTF



I never said it made sense. The theory goes that if your singled out for good behavior then your peers get jealous. I also had doubts that privates can be advance promoted to private trained, Librarians comments, if there are refs would be accurate like George says. Its still no reason to slow down though.


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## armyvern (21 Nov 2006)

MOOXE said:
			
		

> I never said it made sense. The theory goes that if your singled out for good behavior then your peers get jealous.



Well in my time, I've recommended a few for accelerated promotions due to their outstanding performance and drive. It has been my experience that their peers congratulated them, and carried on. Please note that those who were recommended were already "leading" and setting an example for their peers of the Pte rank anyway, and that's why they were recommended in the first place.

So really, nothing changed except for the fact that those who showed the leadership, skill, initiative and drive got recognized for it officially.


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## 211RadOp (22 Nov 2006)

Alright, here is the goods:

From CFAO 49-4 Annex A Table 1

For promotion from Pte (B) to Pte (T) you must have:

1. 30 months qualifying service
2. QL 3 minimum
3. Meets the minimum medical category for the MOC as prescribed by A-MD-154-000/FP-000 Medical Standards for the Canadian Forces
4. Be available for unrestricted employment in MOC
5. Have a recent history of satisfactory performance and conduct
6. CO's recommendation


From CFAO 49-4 Annex B Appendix 1

For accelerated promotion from Pte to Cpl you must:

1. Have 3 years, but less than 4 years, qualifying service.
2. Documentation. As determined by CHQ.
3. Hold QL5A in current MOC                                 
4. Must meet all promotion hold next lower qualification prerequisites, other than time in current MOC when for in rank, specified in Annex A...

- - - - - - - - - - - 
No where in CFAOs does it state that you can be advance promoted from Pte (B) to Pte (T).


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## spud (22 Nov 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> :
> 
> This is starting to sound an awful like the people who are whining because they don't have enough medals or badges to prove that they are 'a somebody'.


Ya really. Do your time, be a good service person and put up your hook when the time comes.

If you've only been in long enough to think you deserve a jump to a hook, you are going to have a long road ahead once you get lost in the puzzle factory of performance evaluations. 


potato


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## armyvern (22 Nov 2006)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Alright, here is the goods:
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> No where in CFAOs does it state that you can be advance promoted from Pte (B) to Pte (T).



You CAN be advanced promoted to Pte (T) in advance of the 30 month deadline, if, as in the scenario I've laid out below, you had been granted credited time towards pay & promotion upon your enrollment for courses/qualification you had upon joining. If those are credited as "prior service." It happens...reserves come in as Pte(B)IPC2 and then receive their hook after serving 6 months. This is not considered an accelerated promotion which is what your reference refers to. These guys are still eligibale to be recommended(and granted) one accelerated promotion later in their career.

Accelerated promotions are whole different beasts. You can not receive an accelerated promotion to Pte (T). A Pte (T) can be recommended for accelerated promotion to Cpl, but they can not be granted that acceleration until they have reached the 36 months of service TI and have met the qualification pre-req, and have a very strong endorsement by their CoC. Once they have been granted this acceleration, they can not receive another one in their career.


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## armyvern (22 Nov 2006)

So here's the answer to the question that was originally posted:



> A Cpl about a year ago told me that a NO HOOK can recieve his HOOK before 30 months.  I no longer know where to find this person that told me this so I ask you all this question.



Yes, this can occur in *advance* of the 30 month mark if that Pte B was enrolled with credit towards TI and pay due to qualifications/courses he had prior to enlisting.

In no other case can a PteB receive their hook (in an *accelerated* manner) prior to completing the 30 month TI requirement, no matter how well they perform.


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Nov 2006)

Bows down to the all knowing Librarian  ;D


And maybe it's time to put a lock on this topic before rounds start heading down range?


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## 211RadOp (22 Nov 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> You CAN be advanced promoted to Pte (T) in advance of the 30 month deadline, if, as in the scenario I've laid out below, you had been granted credited time towards pay & promotion upon your enrollment for courses/qualification you had upon joining. If those are credited as "prior service." It happens...reserves come in as Pte(B)IPC2 and then receive their hook after serving 6 months. This is not considered an accelerated promotion which is what your reference refers to. These guys are still eligibale to be recommended(and granted) one accelerated promotion later in their career.
> 
> Accelerated promotions are whole different beasts. You can not receive an accelerated promotion to Pte (T). A Pte (T) can be recommended for accelerated promotion to Cpl, but they can not be granted that acceleration until they have reached the 36 months of service TI and have met the qualification pre-req, and have a very strong endorsement by their CoC. Once they have been granted this acceleration, they can not receive another one in their career.



My error in using "advanced" vice "accelerated".


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## Radop (22 Nov 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> You CAN be advanced promoted to Pte (T) in advance of the 30 month deadline, if, as in the scenario I've laid out below, you had been granted credited time towards pay & promotion upon your enrollment for courses/qualification you had upon joining. If those are credited as "prior service." It happens...reserves come in as Pte(B)IPC2 and then receive their hook after serving 6 months. This is not considered an accelerated promotion which is what your reference refers to. These guys are still eligibale to be recommended(and granted) one accelerated promotion later in their career.



You are right about getting it earlier than 30 months but it is not an advanced or accellerated promotion to that level.  You receive TCI (Time credited Incentive).  This is concidered service time towards promotion.  There are CFAOs that cover this in or around the same section.  The 30 months can be made up of TCI and service time.  It is simple addition.  It also counts towards the promotion to Cpl but not ussually beyond that unless your entering under a special entry plan such as those offered by Sig Op for completing a collage program that directly relates to our trade.  This is not an accelleration but an accumulation.  I had TCI accredited to me when I joined.  When you received your enrolement message, it would have been included in the message.  If it is not there, you have only 3 years to contest it.


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## GO!!! (22 Nov 2006)

What's the big deal here?

A hook entitles you to no extra pay, benefits or special treatment, and is largely meaningless at my unit, where troops regularly go from no - hook to Cpl at the prescribed time or before, depending on performance. 

Will that one hook make a real difference in your life?


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Nov 2006)

Ok I think we have beaten the proverbial dead horse long enough. 

MODS maybe time to put a lock on this.


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## armyvern (23 Nov 2006)

Radop said:
			
		

> You are right about getting it earlier than 30 months but it is not an advanced or accellerated promotion to that level.  You receive TCI (Time credited Incentive).  This is concidered service time towards promotion.  There are CFAOs that cover this in or around the same section.  The 30 months can be made up of TCI and service time.  It is simple addition.  It also counts towards the promotion to Cpl but not ussually beyond that unless your entering under a special entry plan such as those offered by Sig Op for completing a collage program that directly relates to our trade.  This is not an accelleration but an accumulation.  I had TCI accredited to me when I joined.  When you received your enrolement message, it would have been included in the message.  If it is not there, you have only 3 years to contest it.



Yeah me too, in the scenario that I laid out below.  And I said it wasn't considered an acceleration. 

And Mods, I think that's a wrap.


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