# What is the pass/fail rate at the IAP/BOTP in the summer?



## Goldy (16 Jun 2004)

Not too woried about Basic, although I would like to know the percentage of passing/failing.  Also, I know that there are a lot of factors, but generally what are some of the more common reasons people fail Basic?

Thanks in advance.


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## ark (16 Jun 2004)

I don't know the numbers but some of the major reasons people fail are:

Medical (injuries) : Either people are not in shape when they show up or they try to do too much, "no pain no gain" is not always the best approach better" train don't strain".

Academic : Yes it is the army but you still have to pass exams.

Some other reasons may include security breaches, attitude problems (such as discrimination) etc...


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## Tebo (17 Jun 2004)

Good day,

Regular force IAP / BOTP sees three failure types from my experience at CFLRS St. Jean(Which is now one and half years outdated):

Initial Failures
Some people arrive inadequately prepared physically and/or mentally.   Many factors play in: Personal disposition and compatibility with military life, missed loved ones, anxiety and the somewhat misleading step test as an indicator of fitness all contribute to Voluntary Releases(VRs) in the first two weeks.   Some very strong individuals will fail out if they lack the ability to gain and use the support of their fellow candidates.   Amazingly, some people can make a platoon of some thirty interesting people into a place of solitude.   Don't let it be you.

Transient Failures
Anyone can suffer an injury or be called away for extra-military reasons during training.   These are a little hard to nail down numerically due to the circumstantial nature.   Furthermore, if someone is mentally deficient enough to commit serious offences they will be removed.

Training Failure
Training failures are assessed when the candidate fails a test or graded task twice.   At this point a progress review board is convened with three outcomes: Recourse, Release, Retry. A retry seems only possible if a force outside the candidate's control interfered with a task and is more than rare.

*Example Course IAP - 32 Candidates*

Initial Failures (9.375%)
-Two VRs due to 'this is not for me' syndrome
-One candidate encouraged to VR due to inadequate physical fitness

Transient Failures (3.125%)
-One Medical Recourse from something foot related

Training Failures (0%)

TOTAL LOSS of   12.5%

Note: I found IAP to be far less demanding than I had expected.   It delivers in the 50 tasks with time to only do 10 category - keeps you busy and fatigued.   However, the final tasking seemed to lack realism and did not warrant the micromanaged planning methods expected.   In addition, I thought that it may have been more beneficial to cull the herd earlier, rather than later by assessing in a more strict manner.   I am told that is what trade specific training is for.   :-\ Joy.   

*Example Course BOTP - 28 Candidates*

Initial Failures (3.57%)
-One VR due to 'this is not for me' syndrome.   

Transient Failures (0.0%)
-Lucky in this department.   A girl from another platoon jumped foot first onto a large, rolling rock when disembarking a helicopter and rolled her ankle worse than anything I have ever witnessed.   She did get a first class ticket back to the hospital.   Resulted in a medial recourse, or so I am told. 

Training Failures (3.57%)
-One training failure on final exercise.   Resulted in recourse and a subsequent release due to further failures.

TOTAL LOSS of   7.14%

So provided fate does not pay you a visit, you keep your head up and a sense of humour at hand IAP/BOTP will be nothing but good times. Of course, hindsight tends to favour the more pleasant memories.   

Feel free to post any other questions or fire me an e-mail if you have any specific queries.

Best Regards


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## rdschultz (17 Jun 2004)

Hey, nice post.  Thanks.


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## casing (17 Jun 2004)

Yes indeed.  Very good post. Thanks, Tebo!


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## ZipperHead (18 Jun 2004)

Personally, I think worrying about what the failure rate of a course is a bad sign. Doesn't sound too positive. It's like golf: if you tell yourself that you are going to miss a putt, by golly, you probably will. 

My experience is that it's almost impossible to fail a course now (don't raise your standards to meet ours.... we'll lower ours to meet yours!!!). Going in with the right attitude and the willingness to learn are your two biggest assetts. Being physically fit is big, not just to do the fitness tests and course PT, but to keep you mentally sharp and to help you slog through the tougher parts of the course. I have no experience of the IAP/BOTP, but almost all military courses are the same. The current mindset (in the Armour Corps anyways) is that the instructors are there to teach, not assess or fail you. You will be the one that fails yourself, if that's the case. Every opportunity is given to learn and hopefully that will lead to success, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone is suited to whatever it is they are undertaking, be it BOTP, JTF assaulter, or cook.

Good luck, and stay focused :sniper:,

Al


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## Bert (18 Jun 2004)

True.

Safe to say, the average member after taking a few courses (or even post BMQ) has relative confidence to understand personal limitations
and the ability to push through barriers.  Civilians on the street considering a military career may not have been challenged in
the same regard and lack that experience.  Its normal to want to know statistics and a deeper context for BMQ.  Surprisingly, the new video on the CF
recruiting site is a fairly accurate representation of the course and the best I've seen.  True enough teamwork, perseverance, drive will get you
through.  

In my platoon, the largest contributor to "failures and recourses" were medical/injury related problems.  A foot stress fracture from pre-BMQ
injury, tendonitis of the elbow also pre-BMQ, torn knee ligament while running like a mad-man in the second week, a foot infection acquired
in the second week, and 2 individuals failing a weapons re-test were the main reasons for people recoursed out of my platoon.  Only one
VR'd and left the military out of 58.  The moral -  Take care of yourself, avoid injuries, don't horsearound, figure out when to push and when 
to relax.

Search the site for BMQ and VR and you'll find other threads on the subject Goldy.


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