# FORCES PHOTO SITE SHUT DOWN



## Roy Harding (19 Dec 2007)

From "COMBAT CAMERA" (National Post, 2007-12-19. Page 4).

I cannot provide a link as I'm an online subscriber, and read the paper offline - this article is shared in accordance with the "sharing" provisions of my subscription:



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> COMBAT CAMERA
> 
> ...



To be honest - I never noticed this, then again as an anglo, I probably wouldn't.


Roy


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Dec 2007)

Went to Combat Camera site and got this:

HTTP Error 404 - Not Found
Canadian Forces Image Gallery

The CF Image Gallery is temporarily offline due to technical problems. We apologize for the inconvenience. We are working as fast as we can to correct this problem.

EDITED

OK to be PC now 

Erreur HTTP 404 - Non trouvé
Banque d'images des Forces canadiennes
La Banque d'images des Forces canadiennes sera temporairement fermée en raison de problèmes techniques. Veuillez nous excuser pour ce désagrément. Nous allons faire notre possible pour régler ce problème au plus vite possible.

 ;D


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## Jean Gagné (19 Dec 2007)

i'M french canadian and it didn't bother me, if it makes peoples unhappy they can log in some other site and stop pissing people off!


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Dec 2007)

How to encourage more anger between Francophones and Anglo's  :

Remove all captions and leave the pictures


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## geo (19 Dec 2007)

Well.... just another example of our CF masters overreacting again.

As the NDP critic from NB states, he pointed out something he felt was wrong AND asked that someone take steps to fix it.  So what does the CF do..... shut her down, tells everyone that it's been shut down because of the language thing and pisses off everyone!   Typical!  Stupid!  Imbecilic!

Same as when the CF had it's own forum.  In it's own way, the CF Discussion forum was this forum's equivalent .... some 6-8 years ago.... but they didn't have any moderators and there weren't any rules.  Suddenly, when young immature forum members made some inapropriate politicaly sensitive comments, they used any excuse to shut her down.

GAWD!  talk about a kneejerk reaction!


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## Blakey (19 Dec 2007)

"Suddenly, when young immature forum members made some inapropriate politicaly sensitive comments, they used any excuse to shut her down."

I was under the impression it was hacked? (wrong, or a combonation of both?)

As to the Cbt Camera site, give me a frickin break Godin, I've been to the site before and all there has been for captions is French, not too many complaints from the anglos about that.....whatever, slow day in Parlament. :


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## midget-boyd91 (19 Dec 2007)

> “All the commands were in English.



I wonder if the Mr.Godin noticed when he first went to CombatCamera, that there is the choice of which language you view the site in.


Welcome to CF Combat Camera,           Bienvennue a ......
              English                                     Francais


Edited for spelling on the worst possible word


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## armyvern (19 Dec 2007)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> Went to Combat Camera site and got this:
> 
> HTTP Error 404 - Not Found
> Canadian Forces Image Gallery
> ...



Did that error message also come en francais? 

Kidding .... dammit.  ;D

Uncle-midget-clause,

M. Godin also noticed errors in translation within the french scripting on the site. 

Better to fix it up properly. Hopefully they get it done quick ... that's another gallery that I love to visit.


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Dec 2007)

uncle-midget-clause said:
			
		

> Welcome to CF Combat Camera,
> Engligh



New language?  ;D


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## midget-boyd91 (19 Dec 2007)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> New language?  ;D



Your damn right it is.  ^-^

(I think I'll go edit that now.)


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Dec 2007)

lol thought so 

:cheers:


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## George Wallace (19 Dec 2007)

geo

'And if they left it up over the Christmas Block Leave Period we would be facing the charges that we ignored the 'complaint'.  F'd if you do; f'd if you don't.


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## Pencil Tech (19 Dec 2007)

Shutting it down is an overreaction but there's really no excuse for lousy French text as the govenment translation services are readily available.


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## Maclimius (19 Dec 2007)

Unfortunately, not all CF members that upload to the the Combat Camera website are fully bilingual. Do they really think our members in the field have time to sit down and figure out the proper translation? Personally, I'd rather have access to the imagery in a timely manner rather than having to wait for the translation. 

Do you think anything would have happened if the complaint had been that the captioning for the english translations from originally french captions are incorrect?

-French Translation to Follow-


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## DannyD (19 Dec 2007)

They want to be elected, so they try to look good for the French-speaking population. 

Losers... There are way more pressing issues to be resolved than another /$?*!"@ language brawl.  :brickwall:


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## Roy Harding (19 Dec 2007)

Maclimius said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, not all CF members that upload to the the Combat Camera website are fully bilingual. Do they really think our members in the field have time to sit down and figure out the proper translation? Personally, I'd rather have access to the imagery in a timely manner rather than having to wait for the translation.
> ...



I think your argument would have merit if the Combat Camera site were a private site.  It isn't.  It's an official Government of Canada/DND/CF site - and BOTH official languages should be equally (and grammatically) represented.

Having said that - I DO think that shutting the thing down was an over-reaction.  As much as it hurts to agree with a member of the NDP - the MP in question was simply pointing out a weakness - he didn't ask for it to be shut down, he asked for it to be "fixed".

Perhaps a more acceptable solution would have been for the Combat Camera site to make a statement on its home page (in both official languages) to the effect that "translation is not always up to the minute - but we're working on it as quickly as we can."  Simple, addresses the immediate problem, and perhaps buys some time to get the French on the site up to speed - without depriving interested Canadians of some brilliant imagery.


Roy


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Dec 2007)

Well we had one of our more senior officer in our field sit down with both copies of the same Act in front of him reading them line for line, after 5 minutes, he said  Oh Sh*t!!!!! these don't say the same thing!!! That's after about a decade of use....


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Dec 2007)

I just find it strange, that if the problem was as big and glaring as this MP thought it was, why none of our Francos have ever brought it to the attention of the Site Admins before. Not saying it shouldn't be fixed, if the problems exist, just that it seems like some self gratuitous NDP, "I need airtime" grandstanding.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Dec 2007)

Ebenezer 'the Grinch' Scrooge said:
			
		

> it seems like some self gratuitous NDP, "I need airtime" grandstanding.



But I repeat myself....  ;D

I wonder if anyone will complain about the (once in a while) wonky English translations?

I concur with Roy's assessment - the rules say both languages must be there, but if they can't, just say, "we're working as quickly as we can to get you the other language stuff"....


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## Maclimius (19 Dec 2007)

> Perhaps a more acceptable solution would have been for the Combat Camera site to make a statement on its home page (in both official languages) to the effect that "translation is not always up to the minute - but we're working on it as quickly as we can."  Simple, addresses the immediate problem, and perhaps buys some time to get the French on the site up to speed - without depriving interested Canadians of some brilliant imagery.



That disclaimer already existed on the captions themselves, ie. French or English translation to follow, but I guess it's not enough for some people. 

I do agree that with it being an official Government of Canada/DND/CF site it should be in both languages, but at the same time we need to be realistic that the MSM want access to these images as quickly as possible while the news is still current.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Dec 2007)

Maclimius said:
			
		

> That disclaimer already existed on the captions themselves, ie. French or English translation to follow, but I guess it's not enough for some people.
> 
> I do agree that with it being an official Government of Canada/DND/CF site it should be in both languages, but at the same time we need to be realistic that the MSM want access to these images as quickly as possible while the news is still current.



Perhaps another agenda at work, shut off the ability of the government to get their message across?


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## Roy Harding (19 Dec 2007)

Maclimius said:
			
		

> That disclaimer already existed on the captions themselves, ie. French or English translation to follow, but I guess it's not enough for some people.
> 
> I do agree that with it being an official Government of Canada/DND/CF site it should be in both languages, but at the same time we need to be realistic that the MSM want access to these images as quickly as possible while the news is still current.



Sorry - I hadn't paid attention to the disclaimers (like _MOST_ folks, I think) - point taken.

As for your second statement - I agree completely.


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## bilton090 (19 Dec 2007)

Language Nazi's hit again !, but don't you think our MP's have more important things to work on ? , Wait one it's the NDP,  :crybaby:


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## geo (19 Dec 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> "Suddenly, when young immature forum members made some inapropriate politicaly sensitive comments, they used any excuse to shut her down."
> 
> I was under the impression it was hacked? (wrong, or a combonation of both?)
> 
> As to the Cbt Camera site, give me a frickin break Godin, I've been to the site before and all there has been for captions is French, not too many complaints from the anglos about that.....whatever, slow day in Parlament. :



WRT the old forum at forces.gc.ca
The french forum was hacked... the english one wasn't.
I was the bearer of bad tidings to the CF that their French forum had been hacked... they pulled everything down & based on the political backlash from an Ottawa Citzen editorian that criticized the CFs inaction to a politicaly sensitive post, the CF had no intention to bring it back up - under any circumstance­.  After some campaigning to the former director of LFRR, we were able to bring the forum back up, for a bit (till the LFRR director retired).... but the restrictions imposed and the delay in bringing it back were such that the forum@forces.gc.ca it's day was gone.....

long live the army.ca forum


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## George Wallace (19 Dec 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Perhaps another agenda at work, shut off the ability of the government to get their message across?



That almost makes sense.  Shut off DND and CF 'voices' to the Public.


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## geo (19 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> geo
> 
> 'And if they left it up over the Christmas Block Leave Period we would be facing the charges that we ignored the 'complaint'.  F'd if you do; f'd if you don't.



Ignoring a "problem" or the appearance of doing same can be damning BUT, a simple message in french to the effect that the CF appologizes for any inconvenience while the site was being improved would have satisfied the critics.... so long as progress was done within a reasonnable period of time.  As was pointed out... the MP did not ask that the site be shut down, he simply asked that it be "fixed".


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## Blakey (19 Dec 2007)

Thanks for the info geo, I was not aware that it was only the franco portion that had been hacked.


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## George Wallace (19 Dec 2007)

On a side note, somewhat related, I sent our text for our Unit Web site off for "Official Translation".  When it came back the 'Official Translation' had to be corrected.  Many civilians in the "Translation" Dept do not know military terms.  Perhaps the French Translation was correct, and Mr Godin was just unfamiliar with them.

Many of us can remember sending Armour text off for translation and "Tank" was translated to the equivalent of "oil tank" in the French translation.  Many of the 'Oldtimers' may even remember that the Armour School sign translated into the "School for the Blind" and was like that for over ten years.  Oppsie!  

Who isn't to say that the person doing the Translation for Combat Camera wouldn't have got the apology wrong too?


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## geo (19 Dec 2007)

Denial of service is NOT a solution.


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## armyvern (19 Dec 2007)

DannyD said:
			
		

> They want to be elected, so they try to look good for the French-speaking population.
> 
> Losers... There are way more pressing issues to be resolved than another /$?*!"@ language brawl.  :brickwall:



Actually, the good Monsieur is from New Brunswick ... the only officially bilingual province in this nation ... so yes being conversant in both official languages is very important for him if he wants to be elected here.

He didn't ask for the site to be shut down, he asked for the improper translations to be corrected. Much like we ask for proper grammar and english on this site. There's nothing wrong with that.

And for the earlier post ref pers being out in the field and having better things to do with their time than fix wrong translations ...

The pers doing the official translating for the CF don't go to the field; they are hired especially for the reason of provision of translation services. Perhaps someone needs to make note on their write-ups ... that's what they're getting paid to do after all.

We're blaming the wrong guy here. He advised of the problem.

But, it's the CF who is paying the translators to do their jobs proberly and IAW CF regulations & federal law. The problem isn't with the politician here -- it's with the translator who didn't do the job properly and the staff of Combat Camera who didn't vet the work before posting it to the public.


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## geo (19 Dec 2007)

+1 Vern!
My thoughts exactly


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## TN2IC (19 Dec 2007)

FORCES PHOTO SITE SHUT DOWN !!!


VERN???   ;D


Regards,
Knecht Ruprecht


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## armyvern (19 Dec 2007)

Knecht Ruprecht said:
			
		

> FORCES PHOTO SITE SHUT DOWN !!!
> 
> 
> VERN???   ;D
> ...



Already noted earlier in this thread that it was one of the photo galleries that I liked to visit.

One HUGE lump of coal for you in your stocking ...


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## TN2IC (19 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> One HUGE lump of coal for you in your stocking ...



It don't matter my dear. I'm Knecht Ruprecht.  >


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## PMedMoe (20 Dec 2007)

Next question is when they are going to stop publishing the Maple Leaf.  Their translations aren't quite the same either.  :


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## geo (20 Dec 2007)

Moe...

As with children.... don't encourage em!


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## danchapps (20 Dec 2007)

I wonder if Mr. Godin would like to make a trip to CFLRS and read some of the exams we do. Quite obviously written in French, terribly translated into English. Having a platoon average dropping over 10% in one test due to pittiful grammar was a wake up call. All I'm saying is it goes both ways, and people shouldn't be too critical too fast.


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## ModlrMike (20 Dec 2007)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> I wonder if Mr. Godin would like to make a trip to CFLRS and read some of the exams we do. Quite obviously written in French, terribly translated into English. Having a platoon average dropping over 10% in one test due to pittiful grammar was a wake up call. All I'm saying is it goes both ways, and people shouldn't be too critical too fast.



The phenomenon is not unique to CFLRS. As a bilingual person I would often read the other side of the exam when I didn't have clarity on the question. I'm always surprised at the number of questions that aren't properly translated. I'm even more surprised when the translation asks a completely different question!


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## Bzzliteyr (20 Dec 2007)

I was once denied access to an english version of a CF test at a certain "ecole" in Valcartier...but I won't mention it as we don't want to get into a language debate here.

Back on track, from what I understand it is the photog that uploads the text with the photo, as he/she is the only one that is on the ground at the time of the picture.  That also explains why the text is in most cases either only in french or only in english, that's the photographer's primary language!!

The priority is to get the pictures taken and sent to the CC site.  Translation is second I am guessing.  At least if there are a few easily understood words in the caption most people of either language can put some sense into the picture.

If there is no caption then a picture is only worth about a thousand words...


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## Jean Gagné (20 Dec 2007)

Unfortunatly most of the friction between french and english Canadian come from a few a-holes in both communities. The problem is that these same a-holes are loudmouths that influence a lot of persons who in most cases have never met anybody from the other language and often the real problem is most people are afraid of the unknown. Making a big case of a simple thing again

Jean


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## geo (20 Dec 2007)

+1 Jean


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## The Bread Guy (20 Dec 2007)

Ladies and gentlemen, the final answer.....

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/common/combatcamera/find_e.asp

"Photo captions attached to the photos posted in the CF Image Gallery are temporarily offline until the backlog of translating the captions is complete."

And it took how long to reach this conclusion?


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## Roy Harding (20 Dec 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Ladies and gentlemen, the final answer.....
> 
> http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/common/combatcamera/find_e.asp
> 
> ...



Someone with the requisite influence must be a member here.

An online explanation - what a concept.


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## Kendrick (20 Dec 2007)

Hopefully the issue will be resolved shortly.  Theres a few pictures of mine on there. 

_Edited when I re-read and realized the obvious._


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## Haggis (20 Dec 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> "Photo captions attached to the photos posted in the CF Image Gallery are temporarily offline until the backlog of translating the captions is complete."



Les légendes des photos affichées au Répertoire d'images des Forces canadiennes seront temporairement supprimées jusqu'à ce que toutes les traductions soient terminées.

Note that the photos are back and the search function seems to work "en anglais".


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## Maclimius (21 Dec 2007)

It's nice to see that the Gallery itself is back up, even though it's without the captions. Of course, now the issue becomes that images can end up out of context without the captions. Even though the captions aren't shown, they still exist.

For those of you that aren't aware, the captions that are shown are actually embedded in the pictures by the photographer using metadata in IPTC (International Press Telecommunications Council) format. If you're not aware of how to access this information, it can be accessed with most graphics editing programs (Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, Nikon Capture, Lightroom, etc). In Photoshop and Photoshop elements, this can be found under File->File Info (Alt+Ctrl+I).

Most reporters and photographers already know this information so hopefully they won't start taking the images out of context.


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## rwgill (12 Feb 2008)

Maclimius said:
			
		

> For those of you that aren't aware, the captions that are shown are actually embedded in the pictures by the photographer using metadata in IPTC (International Press Telecommunications Council) format. If you're not aware of how to access this information, it can be accessed with most graphics editing programs (Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, Nikon Capture, Lightroom, etc). In Photoshop and Photoshop elements, this can be found under File->File Info (Alt+Ctrl+I).



Thanks!


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## Jarnhamar (13 Feb 2008)

Edit: ya you're right Geo, too harsh. I just hate that language police stuff


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## geo (13 Feb 2008)

Flawed design... what are you babbling about.

WRT having both languages.  The masters of "combat camera" knew they were supposed to be providing a service in both lauguages - but weren't.  Is it a case of their not being financed but expected to provide the service nevertheless?  That may be the case BUT, regardless, the masters of Combat Camera's masters have gotten into the act & it will get done.... like it shoulda been done in the 1st place.

The site is working - just like they said it would continue to work
So the captions are missing for the time being.... what of it.


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