# Mandarin's growing importance



## CougarKing (1 Jul 2006)

This is probably not news to some of you, but just wanted to share this with those of you who are unaware of China's growing importance from both a business and political point of view. All the more reason for one to learn the Mandarin Chinese language.

An excerpt from the Asian edition of Time. 

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/printout/0,13675,501060626-1205427,00.html


http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/0,13674,501060626,00.html


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## tingbudong (2 Jul 2006)

I've lived in China for the past two years and I'll confirm the massive increases in foreign students studying mandarin.  However, as one who has studied as well, I don't think having mandarin skills is the magic bullet to prosperity everyone thinks it is.  If you want to land a job with an some sort of firm doing business in China, you will probably be hired for based on other skills, not your mandarin ability (unless you are speaking/reading/writing approach native level).  English truly is the universal language.  The expats I know who are pulling in the fat cash are experienced managers, engineers, software designers, urban planners etc.  Most of whom speak little, if any Mandarin.  They are hired and paid well for their knowledge of the company and more importantly, the western corportate power plays the must navigate.

Furthermore, English language training is compulsory from middle school through university.  So by the time a person graduates from university, they will already have about 10-12 years of english under their belt.  Most don't take the language to seriously, but enough do that there is a substantial army of Chinese locals who can speak/read/write english at a near, if not fluent level.  Couple them with the hundreds of thousands of Chinese who study overseas every year and return to China, and you have a very skilled bilingual workforce.    Unless you have a natural knack for languages, you will also probably need to spend comparable time on mandarin.  In business, where communication is essential, you must default into the lowest language denominator.  My friend in an American born CHinese and speaks pretty fluent Mandarin...and in many business situations she still defaults to english.  Probably most importantly, a Chinese local fluent in English will work for significantly less that an foreigner speaking mandarin.    

A lot of my foreign friends here have degrees in Chinese...most are teaching english or working at bars. 

That said, it is an interesting language to learn, especially the characters.


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## CougarKing (2 Jul 2006)

Hey Ting Bu Dong, Ting De Dong,

I was just wondering...is that really your name? (of course it's not)  Hehehe. Wo jiao San Mao An.

Frivolities aside, in your opinion, do you think that learning Mandarin on the mainland is better than learning it in Taiwan? I've been here at Taiwan Shi Fan Da Xue's Chinese language center for foreign students  here for more than a year and the traditional characters/hanzi are quite challenging. Having been on the mainland as well for only brief periods, I would assume that people learning Mandarin in Simplified/Jian Ti Zi would find it easier and faster than learning the Traditional/Fan Ti Zi.


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## tingbudong (2 Jul 2006)

nin hao san mao an!  Wo jiao ke bo wen.  zhu zai taibei ma?

I use tingbudong as my handle as I often find myself tingbudong'd by the locals on a regular basis. 

I'd take the simplified any day of the week over traditional, based on the fact that they are a hell of a lot clearer to read.  Characters get pretty tight when you start pushing 10 strokes, as I'm sure you know.  That said though, I've met guys here who prefer the traditional ones.  I'm kind of an anomolly in the sense that my characters are far superior to my spoken Mandarin.  Actually, I'd say both suck, but I get by.  I often bust out the mobile phone and write characters when the crap gets too thick.  Some of the accents here are nasty.  How do you find the Taiwanese accent?  A number of my local friends scoff at it...apparently it sounds very feminine to the mainlanders.


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## Britney Spears (2 Jul 2006)

Having some functional knowledge of the local language in _always_ useful, even if you never have a conversation with the locals. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with learning in Taiwan, not at the beginner level. Writing in the simplified script is certainly faster, but again, at the beginner level it matters very little. Either type will be perfectly readable in both Taiwan and the mainland.


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## CougarKing (2 Jul 2006)

Ni hao Ke Bo Wen. Dui. Xian Zai who zhu zai Tai Bei. Wo zai Tai Wan Shi Fan Da Xue (National Taiwan Normal University) Xue Zhong Wen/Han Yu.

(Not to snub the non-Mandarin speakers here- Hello Ke Bo Wen.  Correct. I live in Taiwan. I study Mandarin at National Taiwan Normal University)

Just curious about your name? Which Ke (tone? Ke Ai de Ke?), Bo (Tone? Bo as in Dialing?) , Wen (Tone?, Zhong Wen de Wen?)

As for a Taiwanese accent, I'd say it's hard for a foreigner to get one unless they also know Tai Wan Hua (local Taiwanese dialect) as well. Interestingly, the Taiwanese dialect is just a variation of Fu Jian Hua (Fujianese) spoken on Fujian province on the mainland just adjacent to Taiwan. 

How about you? Are you in Beijing, Shanghai or Nanjing? You annoyed with having to hear "er" and "ar" after most Beijinger's words? Hehehe.  ;D


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## Edward Campbell (3 Jul 2006)

I will not deal with language, accents and dialects but, rather, I will present one expert’s views on the central issue: why is Mandarin growing in importance?  EMPHASIS: *one* amongst many experts.  Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act from the July/August edition of _Foreign Affairs_.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060701fareviewessay85414/andrew-j-nathan/present-at-the-stagnation.html


> Present at the Stagnation
> 
> Andrew J. Nathan
> From Foreign Affairs, July/August 2006
> ...



The all pervasive, _”endemic and systemic”_ corruption is real and highly visible.  In over a month of (ongoing) travels, including meetings and a seminar with officials and academics, I have had an opportunity to see it – close up, too.  It *IS* a real problem; it saps productivity and creates a destructive _”what the hell’_ attitude towards individual initiative, quality and reliability.

Anson Chan - http://www.answers.com/topic/anson-chan - one of the most astute commentators on China made similar points (as _Minxin Pei_) back at the turn of the century, warning potential inventors and the Chinese _centre_ that corruption was a major impediment to China’s ability to reach its global social, economic, political and military potential: as the other superpower.

Even a cursory review of the 18th, 19th and 20th century Euro-American experiences ought to confirm the views posited by Chan and Pei: dealing with (lessening) corruption _*multiplies*_ social, economic and political _performance_.

China will become a superpower.  The question is: will it be a _weak_ ‘superpower’ (overly reliant on only one or two of the ‘pillars of power’) like 19th century France or 20th century Russia or a _strong_ superpower (with well balanced social, economic, political and military powers) like 19th century Britain?

There is, of course, another question: how should we (Canada, specifically and the US led _Anglosphere_, in general) cope with China the Superpower?  Learning Mandarin _might_ be part of the solution for _some_ of the problem solvers but it is not any sort of panacea.


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## CougarKing (3 Jul 2006)

> Learning Mandarin _might_ be part of the solution for _some_ of the problem solvers but it is not any sort of panacea.



Well nobody here said it would be any sort of panacea. Still it would be better for one to learn the language and experience the culture if they want to understand and perhaps do business with the next inevitable superpower.

I am guessing that with China's growing energy demands (note the recent commissioning of the Three Gorges Dam by the PRC govt.), Canada may stand to profit from China's need in that respect (didn't someone in similar thread state that more of America's oil comes from Canada thant he Middle East?- I stand corrected if I misqouted)

As for the corruption...what can one do? It's CCP's fault that they remain a one-party rule in spite of their booming market economy. Perhaps the growing dialogue with their old enemies the Guo Min Dang on Taiwan over the independence/reunification row and Chinese public's exposure to democracy through the internet (the state can't firewall everyone with a PC!) and various media will hopefully eventually liberalize the Chinese government. Still that sounds more like wishful thinking at this point...

The CCP's main concern right now is ensuring stability in order to ensure continued economic success. Any seperatist moves by Taiwan or protests by Chinese dissidents and Falun Gong won't help that...


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## tingbudong (3 Jul 2006)

Ke1bo2wen2 (If you computer jives with characters it should look like this... 柯博文）and I'm currently in Nanjing.  I actually prefer the northern accents...Nanjing can be tricky, especially when your friends default into nanjinghua...can make for a unfriendly learning environment. 

I want to comment on that article, but the theme is just too massive to provide an adequate response.  I'll limit to my thoughts on corruption, on which I agree strongly with Mr. Campbell.  Corruption even in itself is a massive theme, it prevails in some form or another in almost every aspect of life in China (from business, to education, to tourism, to construction etc.) almost to the point where it has been culturally ingrained, actually, sorry, it is ingrained.  It even has a word, guanxi (actually means relationships) but it essentially boils down to a 'I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine' philosophy.  It's an accepted way of doing things, despite all of the 'corruption crackdowns'.  Everyone with any sort of power or influence has dirty hands, so I don't think any sort of counter-corruption is effective.

And I feel that because it is part of how things is done in this country, it is going to take decades before attitudes begin to change.  Corruption and cheating can actually be admired qualities.  A friend of mine (while were were discussing cheating) mentioned that believed those those that could get away with cheating and improve their situation were smart and he admired their abilities.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Jul 2006)

CougarKing said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> As for the corruption...what can one do? ...



The Chinese will have to do, in the 21st century, what the West (Britain and America, especially) did in the 19th and 20th centuries: slowly, sometimes not all that surely, clean up their own messes.

In fairness, parts of the West (especially Western Europe, led by France) still turn a blind eye to industrial/commercial corrpution - especially when export contracts with China are at stake and bribes are needed.

We have this lesson from Rome through America; the history is clear.  I am confident that the Chinese will clean house - to fail to do so is unthinkable and these are not unthinking folks.


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