# RE: An off-topic - but important - post (Mike B. - Forgive me!)



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Harwood, Steve" <SHarwood@karmax.com>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:07:42 -0500*
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Joan, not sure what precipitated this but I have always found your emails
respectful, insightful, and humourous. You have every right to your privacy
and are most welcome here. Maybe there is some "witch hunting‘ going on by
some members here primarily because of our 1st Lt. who seems to have
disappeared clearly proving he wasn‘t who he said he was. Anyone else agree?
Steve 
-----Original Message-----
From: Joan O. Arc [mailto:joan_o_arc@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20 AM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive me!
As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s been in the air 
lately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a list member who‘s 
sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW to save yourself some
time.:
1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with any of that "exactly 
where do you live/work" stuff with me, let me tell you right now you can 
forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young, reasonably attractive 
woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am going to give out that 
information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if you can‘t figure out why
that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you are either: a stupid, b
crazy, or c a professional pervert.
2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our amateur detectives figure
I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python endlessly, I say, "Buzz 
off." My husband received a couple of Python DVDs for Xmas, and it‘s been a 
long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of quotes..., let me point 
out that although many of the list members know each other, I have no clue 
who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is Don Schepens a 
belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a podiatrist? Is Mac a volunteer 
fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away from me? In 
Lloydminster? On the moon?
You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is that it almost 
always involves an element of trust and uncertainty that can be faintly 
off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I have "played it straight"
in dealing with the members of this list from the beginning, but if there 
are people here who can‘t handle my request that I be allowed to conceal 
some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems to me that 
maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing in private, 
where "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.
3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this nonsense because I‘ve 
actually grown incredibly fond of most of the regular posters over the past 
few months, which is why I myself have been posting more recently - I‘ve 
been feeling more "at home". The old buddies who rib and nudge each other - 
John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, and, of course, Private 
Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and marvellously 
enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all in line gently, of 
course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - Daves Hall and Newcombe 
the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, of course, the 
still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all figuratively speaking only, of 
course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, too.
I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on the list usually! 
shows signs of having the qualities I have always associated with the 
military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot about it - 
self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and order, loyalty, 
mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I expected to find 
when I joined the list and is partly why I decided to join.
4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because dating back to 
the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff I have developed 
a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has done in the past, how 
it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be honest, it keeps 
getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on this issue in 
particular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers and vets and wives
and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and more interesting than 
trying to make time to wade through a bunch of military history books, or 
spending hours trying to find my way around the DND site. If my questions 
sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a lot!, or too numerous that
too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., or whomever, thinks my 
reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, tell me that, too.
But enough already !!! with these made-up computer trails, and trumped up 
accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t think I have ever 
treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully at least not on 
purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up with poor treatment in 
return.
Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for reading!
- Joan
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains information which may be
privileged, confidential or exempt or prohibited from disclosure under
applicable law.  If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message
to the intended recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any dissemination,
distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this message and/or the
contents thereof is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message
in error or in contravention of the above, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail.
RE: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive 
me!
Joan, not sure what precipitated this but I have 
always found your emails respectful, insightful, and humourous. You 
have every right to your privacy and are most welcome here. Maybe there 
is some quotwitch hunting‘ going on by some members here primarily 
because of our 1st Lt. who seems to have disappeared clearly proving he 
wasn‘t who he said he was. Anyone else agree?
Steve 
-----Original Message-----
From: Joan O. Arc [mailto:joan_o_arc@hotmail.com
]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20 AM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: An off-topic - but important - post Mike 
B. - Forgive me!
As *my* final word on this quotwho are youquot 
stuff that‘s been in the air 
lately, let me make a few long-winded points If 
you‘re a list member who‘s 
sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete 
NOW to save yourself some 
time.:
1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with 
any of that quotexactly 
where do you live/workquot stuff with me, let me 
tell you right now you can 
forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young, 
reasonably attractive 
woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am 
going to give out that 
information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if 
you can‘t figure out why 
that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you 
are either: a stupid, b 
crazy, or c a professional pervert.
2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our 
amateur detectives figure 
I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python 
endlessly, I say, quotBuzz 
off.quot My husband received a couple of Python 
DVDs for Xmas, and it‘s been a 
long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of 
quotes..., let me point 
out that although many of the list members know each 
other, I have no clue 
who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is 
Don Schepens a 
belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a 
podiatrist? Is Mac a volunteer 
fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away 
from me? In 
Lloydminster? On the moon?
You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line 
stuff is that it almost 
always involves an element of trust and uncertainty 
that can be faintly 
off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I 
have quotplayed it straightquot 
in dealing with the members of this list from the 
beginning, but if there 
are people here who can‘t handle my request that I 
be allowed to conceal 
some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - 
it seems to me that 
maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your 
own thing in private, 
where quotoutsidersquot can‘t interfere or 
intrude.
3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this 
nonsense because I‘ve 
actually grown incredibly fond of most of the 
regular posters over the past 
few months, which is why I myself have been posting 
more recently - I‘ve 
been feeling more quotat homequot. The old 
buddies who rib and nudge each other - 
John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, 
and, of course, Private 
Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and 
marvellously 
enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all 
in line gently, of 
course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - 
Daves Hall and Newcombe 
the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, 
of course, the 
still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all 
figuratively speaking only, of 
course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, 
too.
I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on 
the list usually! 
shows signs of having the qualities I have always 
associated with the 
military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot 
about it - 
self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for 
clarity and order, loyalty, 
mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is 
what I expected to find 
when I joined the list and is partly why I decided 
to join.
4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list 
because dating back to 
the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration 
stuff I have developed 
a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it 
has done in the past, how 
it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to 
be honest, it keeps 
getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my 
questions on this issue in 
particular - and I figured peppering real live 
soldiers and vets and wives 
and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun 
and more interesting than 
trying to make time to wade through a bunch of 
military history books, or 
spending hours trying to find my way around the DND 
site. If my questions 
sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a 
lot!, or too numerous that 
too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., 
or whomever, thinks my 
reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, 
tell me that, too.
But enough already !!! with these made-up computer 
trails, and trumped up 
accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t 
think I have ever 
treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully 
at least not on 
purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up 
with poor treatment in 
return.
Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for 
reading!
- Joan
_______________________________________________________________
__________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send 
a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish 
to
remove, with the line quotunsubscribe 
army-listquot in the
message body.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This message contains information which may be privileged, 
confidential or exempt or prohibited from disclosure under applicable 
law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the 
intended recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any dissemination, 
distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this message and/or 
the contents thereof is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
this message in error or in contravention of the above, please notify 
the sender immediately by return e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Rob Ayres" <ayrzee_07@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:16:19 -0500*
So far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just kidding 
I have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts. True, nobody 
likes a fake and that is why so much attention has been turned to you 
with respect to this search. But, I have seen no overwhelming evidence 
that you are associated to either of the previous two fakes and quite 
frankly, this has gone far enough.
For those of you on this list who consider yourselves to have a stake of 
ownership or seniority with regard to this list whether it is because 
you have been here longer or are former command material or whatever I 
would suggest you suck back and reload. There is no command structure 
here. It is my choice to refer to those of you who I respect for your 
military service, experience and intelligence as "Sir" and not a 
requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient and respectful in this 
matter as the true owner of this list. We are gusts here and should 
provide each other with the respect and consideration appropriate to 
such a forum.
I would like to commend you, Joan, for your "sticking to your guns" 
attitude. Most on this list, it seems, have no patience for personal 
inquisitions and witch hunts. This matter is bringing everyone on this 
list down and I would like to submit that it is not the responsibility 
of anyone on this list to police it or rule over it. May I remind you 
that in this country we are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY and there has 
never been cause to accuse as actual proof has never been there. If this 
were a court of law I would laugh the accusers right out of the room. 
Until something tangible can be provided no statements of an accusatory 
nature should ever have been presented. We all fall out of line now and 
again and it has always been my experience that, when I fell or an 
employee of mine, I and they, were forgiven when the situation was 
righted and we move on to something more productive.
Joan has never made offensive comments or disparaging remarks to anyone 
and from the beginning has been respectful of the opinions presented by 
others.
I apologise for not jumping to your defence sooner Joan but from the 
start considered the whole thing rather silly and not worthy of comment.
On behalf of the members of this list who would support my views I would 
like to offer you an apology if you have been made to feel unwanted or 
uncomfortable.
Your request for anonymity should be respected, as is your right, until 
you prove to be, by your own actions, other than who you state.
Regards,
Rob Ayres
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joan O. Arc
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20 AM
  Subject: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive me!
  As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s been in the air
  lately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a list member 
who‘s
  sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW to save 
yourself some
  time.:
  1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with any of that 
"exactly
  where do you live/work" stuff with me, let me tell you right now you 
can
  forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young, reasonably 
attractive
  woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am going to give out 
that
  information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if you can‘t figure 
out why
  that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you are either: a 
stupid, b
  crazy, or c a professional pervert.
  2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our amateur detectives 
figure
  I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python endlessly, I say, 
"Buzz
  off." My husband received a couple of Python DVDs for Xmas, and it‘s 
been a
  long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of quotes..., let me 
point
  out that although many of the list members know each other, I have no 
clue
  who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is Don Schepens a
  belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a podiatrist? Is Mac a 
volunteer
  fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away from me? In
  Lloydminster? On the moon?
  You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is that it 
almost
  always involves an element of trust and uncertainty that can be 
faintly
  off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I have "played it 
straight"
  in dealing with the members of this list from the beginning, but if 
there
  are people here who can‘t handle my request that I be allowed to 
conceal
  some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems to me 
that
  maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing in 
private,
  where "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.
  3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this nonsense because 
I‘ve
  actually grown incredibly fond of most of the regular posters over the 
past
  few months, which is why I myself have been posting more recently - 
I‘ve
  been feeling more "at home". The old buddies who rib and nudge each 
other -
  John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, and, of course, 
Private
  Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and marvellously
  enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all in line gently, of
  course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - Daves Hall and 
Newcombe
  the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, of course, the
  still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all figuratively speaking 
only, of
  course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, too.
  I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on the list 
usually!
  shows signs of having the qualities I have always associated with the
  military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot about it -
  self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and order, 
loyalty,
  mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I expected to 
find
  when I joined the list and is partly why I decided to join.
  4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because dating back 
to
  the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff I have 
developed
  a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has done in the 
past, how
  it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be honest, it 
keeps
  getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on this issue 
in
  particular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers and vets and 
wives
  and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and more interesting 
than
  trying to make time to wade through a bunch of military history books, 
or
  spending hours trying to find my way around the DND site. If my 
questions
  sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a lot!, or too numerous 
that
  too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., or whomever, 
thinks my
  reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, tell me that, too.
  But enough already !!! with these made-up computer trails, and 
trumped up
  accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t think I have ever
  treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully at least not on
  purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up with poor 
treatment in
  return.
  Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for reading!
  - Joan

_________________________________________________________________________
  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
  --------------------------------------------------------
  NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  message body.
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
So far Joan, if that is who you really 
are just
kidding, just kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of 
silly
posts. True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has 
been
turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen no
overwhelming evidence that you are associated 
to either
of the previous two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far
enough.
For those of you on this list who consider 
yourselves to
have a stake of ownership or seniority with regard to this list whether 
it is
because you have been here longer or are former command material or
whateverI would suggest you suck back and reload. There is no 
command
structure here. It is my choice to refer to those of you who I respect 
for your
military service, experience and intelligence as "Sir" and not a 
requirement Mr
Bobitt has been quite patient and respectful in this matter as the true 
owner of
this list. We are gusts here and should provide each other with the 
respect and
consideration appropriate to such a forum. 
I would like to commend you, Joan, for your 
"sticking to
your guns" attitude.Most on this list, it seems, have no patience 
for
personal inquisitions andwitch hunts. This matter is bringing 
everyone on
this list down and I would like to submit that it is not the 
responsibility of
anyone on this list to police it or rule over it. May I remind you that 
in this
country we are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY and there has never been 
cause to
accuse asactual proof has never been there. If this were 
a court
of law I would laugh the accusers right out of the room. Until something 
tangible can be provided no statements of an accusatory nature should 
ever have
been presented. We all fall out of line now and again and it has always 
been my
experience that, when I fell or an employee of mine, I and they, were 
forgiven
when the situation was righted and we move on to something more
productive.
Joan has never made offensive comments or 
disparaging
remarks to anyone and from the beginning has been respectful of the 
opinions
presented by others. 
I apologise for not jumping to your defence 
sooner Joan
but from the start considered the whole thing rather silly and not 
worthy of
comment.
On behalf of the members of this list who would 
support my
views I would like to offer you an apology if you have been made to feel 
unwanted or uncomfortable.
Your request for anonymityshould be 
respected, as is
your right, until you prove to be, by your own actions, other 
than who
you state.
Regards,
Rob Ayres
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Joan O.
  Arc 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 
3:20
  AM
  Subject: An off-topic - but 
important -
  post Mike B. - Forgive me!
  As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s 
been in
  the airlately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a 
list
  member who‘ssick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW 
to save
  yourself sometime.:1 In case anyone thinks they should 
start in
  with any of that "exactlywhere do you live/work" stuff with me, 
let me
  tell you right now you canforget it. Having told you I‘m a 
reasonably
  young, reasonably attractivewoman, there is no way on God‘s green 
earth I
  am going to give out thatinformation to a bunch of strangers 
on-line. And
  if you can‘t figure out whythat is, then I can‘t help you because 
clearly
  you are either: a stupid, bcrazy, or c a professional
  pervert.2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our 
amateur
  detectives figureI can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python 
  endlessly, I say, "Buzzoff." My husband received a couple of 
Python DVDs
  for Xmas, and it‘s been along, cold winter here, hence the ready 
supply of
  quotes..., let me pointout that although many of the list members 
know
  each other, I have no cluewho *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree 
  surgeon? Is Don Schepens abelly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F 
a
  podiatrist? Is Mac a volunteerfireman? And where do you all live? 
Two
  blocks away from me? InLloydminster? On the moon?You see, 
one of
  the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is that it almostalways 
involves
  an element of trust and uncertainty that can be faintlyoff-putting 
for
  everyone involved. Knowing this, I have "played it straight"in 
dealing
  with the members of this list from the beginning, but if thereare 
people
  here who can‘t handle my request that I be allowed to concealsome 
bits of
  personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems to me thatmaybe 
Gow is
  right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing in private,where
  "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.3 That said, I‘m 
particularly
  steamed about this nonsense because I‘veactually grown incredibly 
fond of
  most of the regular posters over the pastfew months, which is why 
I myself
  have been posting more recently - I‘vebeen feeling more "at home". 
The old
  buddies who rib and nudge each other -John, Don and Ian the young 
uns,
  the Matts, Rob, and, of course, PrivateSean who are alternately
  incredibly respectful and marvellouslyenthusiastic the gruff 
old-timers
  who keep us all in line gently, ofcourse! - Mac and Ian 
again! the
  comedians - Daves Hall and Newcombethe knowledgeable Nova 
Scotians, Peter
  DeVries, and, of course, thestill-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love 
you all
  figuratively speaking only, ofcourse!, and lots more who I 
haven‘t
  named, too.I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on 
the
  list usually!shows signs of having the qualities I have always
  associated with themilitary without, mind you, knowing a whole 
lot about
  it -self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and 
order,
  loyalty,mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I 
  expected to findwhen I joined the list and is partly why I decided 
to
  join.4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because 
dating
  back tothe 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff 
I have
  developeda growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has 
done in the
  past, howit works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be 
honest,
  it keepsgetting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on 
this
  issue inparticular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers 
and vets
  and wivesand friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and 
more
  interesting thantrying to make time to wade through a bunch of 
military
  history books, orspending hours trying to find my way around the 
DND site.
  If my questionssometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a 
lot!, or
  too numerous thattoo, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike 
B., or
  whomever, thinks myreasons for participating aren‘t valid/good 
enough,
  tell me that, too.But enough already !!! with these made-up 
computer
  trails, and trumped upaccusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. 
I don‘t
  think I have evertreated anyone on this list badly or 
disrespectfully at
  least not onpurpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up 
with poor
  treatment inreturn.Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for 
  reading!-

Joan_____________________________________________________________
____________Get
  Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.------ 
--------------------------------------------------NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
themessage
  body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Rhett Lawson <lawson@cclacbrome.qc.ca>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:02:47 -0500*
--------------B8822C5419819C2FCBA9869B
I‘m very much in accord with your views Rob, Joan O‘Arc has always
conducted her inquiries with appropriate and well placed questions with
some serious desire to find out what makes the Army system work and why.
Rhett Lawson
Rob Ayres wrote:
> So far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just
> kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts.
> True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has been
> turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen no
> overwhelming evidence that you are associated to either of the
> previous two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far enough.For
> those of you on this list who consider yourselves to have a stake of
> ownership or seniority with regard to this list whether it is because
> you have been here longer or are former command material or whatever
> I would suggest you suck back and reload. There is no command
> structure here. It is my choice to refer to those of you who I
> respect for your military service, experience and intelligence as
> "Sir" and not a requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient and
> respectful in this matter as the true owner of this list. We are gusts
> here and should provide each other with the respect and consideration
> appropriate to such a forum.I would like to commend you, Joan, for
> your "sticking to your guns" attitude. Most on this list, it seems,
> have no patience for personal inquisitions and witch hunts. This
> matter is bringing everyone on this list down and I would like to
> submit that it is not the responsibility of anyone on this list to
> police it or rule over it. May I remind you that in this country we
> are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY and there has never been cause to
> accuse as actual proof has never been there. If this were a court of
> law I would laugh the accusers right out of the room. Until something
> tangible can be provided no statements of an accusatory nature should
> ever have been presented. We all fall out of line now and again and it
> has always been my experience that, when I fell or an employee of
> mine, I and they, were forgiven when the situation was righted and we
> move on to something more productive.Joan has never made offensive
> comments or disparaging remarks to anyone and from the beginning has
> been respectful of the opinions presented by others.I apologise for
> not jumping to your defence sooner Joan but from the start considered
> the whole thing rather silly and not worthy of comment.On behalf of
> the members of this list who would support my views I would like to
> offer you an apology if you have been made to feel unwanted or
> uncomfortable.Your request for anonymity should be respected, as is
> your right, until you prove to be, by your own actions, other than who
> you state. Regards,Rob Ayres
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Joan O. Arc
>      To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20 AM
>      Subject: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. -
>      Forgive me!
>       As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s been
>      in the air
>      lately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a
>      list member who‘s
>      sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW to
>      save yourself some
>      time.:
>
>      1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with any of
>      that "exactly
>      where do you live/work" stuff with me, let me tell you right
>      now you can
>      forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young,
>      reasonably attractive
>      woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am going to
>      give out that
>      information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if you
>      can‘t figure out why
>      that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you are
>      either: a stupid, b
>      crazy, or c a professional pervert.
>
>      2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our amateur
>      detectives figure
>      I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python endlessly,
>      I say, "Buzz
>      off." My husband received a couple of Python DVDs for Xmas,
>      and it‘s been a
>      long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of
>      quotes..., let me point
>      out that although many of the list members know each other,
>      I have no clue
>      who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is Don
>      Schepens a
>      belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a podiatrist? Is Mac
>      a volunteer
>      fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away from me?
>      In
>      Lloydminster? On the moon?
>
>      You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is
>      that it almost
>      always involves an element of trust and uncertainty that can
>      be faintly
>      off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I have
>      "played it straight"
>      in dealing with the members of this list from the beginning,
>      but if there
>      are people here who can‘t handle my request that I be
>      allowed to conceal
>      some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems
>      to me that
>      maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing
>      in private,
>      where "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.
>
>      3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this nonsense
>      because I‘ve
>      actually grown incredibly fond of most of the regular
>      posters over the past
>      few months, which is why I myself have been posting more
>      recently - I‘ve
>      been feeling more "at home". The old buddies who rib and
>      nudge each other -
>      John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, and, of
>      course, Private
>      Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and
>      marvellously
>      enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all in line
>      gently, of
>      course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - Daves Hall
>      and Newcombe
>      the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, of
>      course, the
>      still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all figuratively
>      speaking only, of
>      course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, too.
>
>      I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on the list
>      usually!
>      shows signs of having the qualities I have always associated
>      with the
>      military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot about it -
>
>      self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and
>      order, loyalty,
>      mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I
>      expected to find
>      when I joined the list and is partly why I decided to join.
>
>      4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because
>      dating back to
>      the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff I
>      have developed
>      a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has done
>      in the past, how
>      it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be
>      honest, it keeps
>      getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on
>      this issue in
>      particular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers
>      and vets and wives
>      and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and more
>      interesting than
>      trying to make time to wade through a bunch of military
>      history books, or
>      spending hours trying to find my way around the DND site. If
>      my questions
>      sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a lot!, or
>      too numerous that
>      too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., or
>      whomever, thinks my
>      reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, tell me
>      that, too.
>
>      But enough already !!! with these made-up computer trails,
>      and trumped up
>      accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t think I
>      have ever
>      treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully at
>      least not on
>      purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up with
>      poor treatment in
>      return.
>
>      Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for reading!
>
>      - Joan
>
>      ______
>      __________________________________________________________________
>
>      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>       http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>      NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>      to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>      remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>      message body.
>
--------------B8822C5419819C2FCBA9869B
I‘m very much in accord with your views Rob, Joan O‘Arc has always conducted
her inquiries with appropriate and well placed questions with some serious
desire to find out what makes the Army system work and why.
Rhett Lawson
Rob Ayres wrote:
So
far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just kidding I
have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts. True, nobody likes
a fake and that is why so much attention has been turned to you with respect
to this search. But, I have seen no overwhelming evidence that you
are associated to either of the previous two fakes and quite frankly,
this has gone far enough.For those of you on
this list who consider yourselves to have a stake of ownership or seniority
with regard to this list whether it is because you have been here longer
or are former command material or whatever I would suggest you suck back
and reload. There is no command structure here. It is my choice to refer
to those of you who I respect for your military service, experience and
intelligence as "Sir" and not a requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient
and respectful in this matter as the true owner of this list. We are gusts
here and should provide each other with the respect and consideration appropriate
to such a forum.I would like to commend you,
Joan, for your "sticking to your guns" attitude. Most on this list, it
seems, have no patience for personal inquisitions and witch hunts. This
matter is bringing everyone on this list down and I would like to submit
that it is not the responsibility of anyone on this list to police it or
rule over it. May I remind you that in this country we are INNOCENT until
PROVEN GUILTY and there has never been cause to accuse as actual proof
has never been there. If this were a court of law I would laugh the
accusers right out of the room. Until something tangible can be provided
no statements of an accusatory nature should ever have been presented.
We all fall out of line now and again and it has always been my experience
that, when I fell or an employee of mine, I and they, were forgiven when
the situation was righted and we move on to something more productive.Joan
has never made offensive comments or disparaging remarks to anyone and
from the beginning has been respectful of the opinions presented by others.I
apologise for not jumping to your defence sooner Joan but from the start
considered the whole thing rather silly and not worthy of comment.On
behalf of the members of this list who would support my views I would like
to offer you an apology if you have been made to feel unwanted or uncomfortable.Your
request for anonymity should be respected, as is your right, until you
prove to be, by your own actions, other than who you state.Regards,Rob
Ayres
----- Original Message -----
From:
Joan
O. Arc
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20
AM
Subject: An off-topic - but important
- post Mike B. - Forgive me!
As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s been in the
air
lately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a list member
who‘s
sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW to save yourself
some
time.:
1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with any of that "exactly
where do you live/work" stuff with me, let me tell you right now you
can
forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young, reasonably attractive
woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am going to give out
that
information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if you can‘t figure
out why
that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you are either: a stupid,
b
crazy, or c a professional pervert.
2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our amateur detectives
figure
I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python endlessly, I say,
"Buzz
off." My husband received a couple of Python DVDs for Xmas, and it‘s
been a
long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of quotes..., let me
point
out that although many of the list members know each other, I have
no clue
who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is Don Schepens a
belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a podiatrist? Is Mac a volunteer
fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away from me? In
Lloydminster? On the moon?
You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is that it
almost
always involves an element of trust and uncertainty that can be faintly
off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I have "played it
straight"
in dealing with the members of this list from the beginning, but if
there
are people here who can‘t handle my request that I be allowed to conceal
some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems to me
that
maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing in private,
where "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.
3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this nonsense because I‘ve
actually grown incredibly fond of most of the regular posters over
the past
few months, which is why I myself have been posting more recently -
I‘ve
been feeling more "at home". The old buddies who rib and nudge each
other -
John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, and, of course,
Private
Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and marvellously
enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all in line gently,
of
course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - Daves Hall and Newcombe
the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, of course, the
still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all figuratively speaking
only, of
course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, too.
I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on the list usually!
shows signs of having the qualities I have always associated with the
military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot about it -
self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and order, loyalty,
mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I expected
to find
when I joined the list and is partly why I decided to join.
4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because dating back
to
the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff I have developed
a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has done in the past,
how
it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be honest, it
keeps
getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on this issue
in
particular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers and vets
and wives
and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and more interesting
than
trying to make time to wade through a bunch of military history books,
or
spending hours trying to find my way around the DND site. If my questions
sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a lot!, or too numerous
that
too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., or whomever, thinks
my
reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, tell me that, too.
But enough already !!! with these made-up computer trails, and trumped
up
accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t think I have ever
treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully at least not
on
purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up with poor treatment
in
return.
Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for reading!
- Joan
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from
the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
--------------B8822C5419819C2FCBA9869B--
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:15:12 -0400*
--------------03A8024FB63EFBFC64CBA358
Well said!!!!  And, Joan,  you mentioned a while ago about getting
together with like-minded females.  E-Mail me and we‘ll discuss it.
Regards
Beth
Rob Ayres wrote:
> So far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just
> kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts.
> True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has been
> turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen no
> overwhelming evidence that you are associated to either of the
> previous two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far enough.For
> those of you on this list who consider yourselves to have a stake of
> ownership or seniority with regard to this list whether it is because
> you have been here longer or are former command material or whatever
> I would suggest you suck back and reload. There is no command
> structure here. It is my choice to refer to those of you who I
> respect for your military service, experience and intelligence as
> "Sir" and not a requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient and
> respectful in this matter as the true owner of this list. We are gusts
> here and should provide each other with the respect and consideration
> appropriate to such a forum.I would like to commend you, Joan, for
> your "sticking to your guns" attitude. Most on this list, it seems,
> have no patience for personal inquisitions and witch hunts. This
> matter is bringing everyone on this list down and I would like to
> submit that it is not the responsibility of anyone on this list to
> police it or rule over it. May I remind you that in this country we
> are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY and there has never been cause to
> accuse as actual proof has never been there. If this were a court of
> law I would laugh the accusers right out of the room. Until something
> tangible can be provided no statements of an accusatory nature should
> ever have been presented. We all fall out of line now and again and it
> has always been my experience that, when I fell or an employee of
> mine, I and they, were forgiven when the situation was righted and we
> move on to something more productive.Joan has never made offensive
> comments or disparaging remarks to anyone and from the beginning has
> been respectful of the opinions presented by others.I apologise for
> not jumping to your defence sooner Joan but from the start considered
> the whole thing rather silly and not worthy of comment.On behalf of
> the members of this list who would support my views I would like to
> offer you an apology if you have been made to feel unwanted or
> uncomfortable.Your request for anonymity should be respected, as is
> your right, until you prove to be, by your own actions, other than who
> you state. Regards,Rob Ayres
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Joan O. Arc
>      To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20 AM
>      Subject: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. -
>      Forgive me!
>       As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s been
>      in the air
>      lately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a
>      list member who‘s
>      sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW to
>      save yourself some
>      time.:
>
>      1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with any of
>      that "exactly
>      where do you live/work" stuff with me, let me tell you right
>      now you can
>      forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young,
>      reasonably attractive
>      woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am going to
>      give out that
>      information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if you
>      can‘t figure out why
>      that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you are
>      either: a stupid, b
>      crazy, or c a professional pervert.
>
>      2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our amateur
>      detectives figure
>      I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python endlessly,
>      I say, "Buzz
>      off." My husband received a couple of Python DVDs for Xmas,
>      and it‘s been a
>      long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of
>      quotes..., let me point
>      out that although many of the list members know each other,
>      I have no clue
>      who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is Don
>      Schepens a
>      belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a podiatrist? Is Mac
>      a volunteer
>      fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away from me?
>      In
>      Lloydminster? On the moon?
>
>      You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is
>      that it almost
>      always involves an element of trust and uncertainty that can
>      be faintly
>      off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I have
>      "played it straight"
>      in dealing with the members of this list from the beginning,
>      but if there
>      are people here who can‘t handle my request that I be
>      allowed to conceal
>      some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems
>      to me that
>      maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing
>      in private,
>      where "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.
>
>      3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this nonsense
>      because I‘ve
>      actually grown incredibly fond of most of the regular
>      posters over the past
>      few months, which is why I myself have been posting more
>      recently - I‘ve
>      been feeling more "at home". The old buddies who rib and
>      nudge each other -
>      John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, and, of
>      course, Private
>      Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and
>      marvellously
>      enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all in line
>      gently, of
>      course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - Daves Hall
>      and Newcombe
>      the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, of
>      course, the
>      still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all figuratively
>      speaking only, of
>      course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, too.
>
>      I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on the list
>      usually!
>      shows signs of having the qualities I have always associated
>      with the
>      military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot about it -
>
>      self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and
>      order, loyalty,
>      mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I
>      expected to find
>      when I joined the list and is partly why I decided to join.
>
>      4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because
>      dating back to
>      the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff I
>      have developed
>      a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has done
>      in the past, how
>      it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be
>      honest, it keeps
>      getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on
>      this issue in
>      particular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers
>      and vets and wives
>      and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and more
>      interesting than
>      trying to make time to wade through a bunch of military
>      history books, or
>      spending hours trying to find my way around the DND site. If
>      my questions
>      sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a lot!, or
>      too numerous that
>      too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., or
>      whomever, thinks my
>      reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, tell me
>      that, too.
>
>      But enough already !!! with these made-up computer trails,
>      and trumped up
>      accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t think I
>      have ever
>      treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully at
>      least not on
>      purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up with
>      poor treatment in
>      return.
>
>      Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for reading!
>
>      - Joan
>
>      ______
>      __________________________________________________________________
>
>      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>       http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>      NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>      to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>      remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>      message body.
>
--------------03A8024FB63EFBFC64CBA358
Well said!!!! And, Joan, you mentioned a while ago about getting
together with like-minded females. E-Mail me and we‘ll discuss it.
Regards
Beth
Rob Ayres wrote:
So
far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just kidding I
have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts. True, nobody likes
a fake and that is why so much attention has been turned to you with respect
to this search. But, I have seen no overwhelming evidence that you
are associated to either of the previous two fakes and quite frankly,
this has gone far enough.For those of you on
this list who consider yourselves to have a stake of ownership or seniority
with regard to this list whether it is because you have been here longer
or are former command material or whatever I would suggest you suck back
and reload. There is no command structure here. It is my choice to refer
to those of you who I respect for your military service, experience and
intelligence as "Sir" and not a requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient
and respectful in this matter as the true owner of this list. We are gusts
here and should provide each other with the respect and consideration appropriate
to such a forum.I would like to commend you,
Joan, for your "sticking to your guns" attitude. Most on this list, it
seems, have no patience for personal inquisitions and witch hunts. This
matter is bringing everyone on this list down and I would like to submit
that it is not the responsibility of anyone on this list to police it or
rule over it. May I remind you that in this country we are INNOCENT until
PROVEN GUILTY and there has never been cause to accuse as actual proof
has never been there. If this were a court of law I would laugh the
accusers right out of the room. Until something tangible can be provided
no statements of an accusatory nature should ever have been presented.
We all fall out of line now and again and it has always been my experience
that, when I fell or an employee of mine, I and they, were forgiven when
the situation was righted and we move on to something more productive.Joan
has never made offensive comments or disparaging remarks to anyone and
from the beginning has been respectful of the opinions presented by others.I
apologise for not jumping to your defence sooner Joan but from the start
considered the whole thing rather silly and not worthy of comment.On
behalf of the members of this list who would support my views I would like
to offer you an apology if you have been made to feel unwanted or uncomfortable.Your
request for anonymity should be respected, as is your right, until you
prove to be, by your own actions, other than who you state.Regards,Rob
Ayres
----- Original Message -----
From:
Joan
O. Arc
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:20
AM
Subject: An off-topic - but important
- post Mike B. - Forgive me!
As *my* final word on this "who are you" stuff that‘s been in the
air
lately, let me make a few long-winded points If you‘re a list member
who‘s
sick of this stuff by now As I am! please delete NOW to save yourself
some
time.:
1 In case anyone thinks they should start in with any of that "exactly
where do you live/work" stuff with me, let me tell you right now you
can
forget it. Having told you I‘m a reasonably young, reasonably attractive
woman, there is no way on God‘s green earth I am going to give out
that
information to a bunch of strangers on-line. And if you can‘t figure
out why
that is, then I can‘t help you because clearly you are either: a stupid,
b
crazy, or c a professional pervert.
2 Since we‘re playing Spanish Inquisition If our amateur detectives
figure
I can‘t possibly be a girl because I quote Python endlessly, I say,
"Buzz
off." My husband received a couple of Python DVDs for Xmas, and it‘s
been a
long, cold winter here, hence the ready supply of quotes..., let me
point
out that although many of the list members know each other, I have
no clue
who *any* of you are. Is John Gow a tree surgeon? Is Don Schepens a
belly-dancer no offense, Don!? Is J-F a podiatrist? Is Mac a volunteer
fireman? And where do you all live? Two blocks away from me? In
Lloydminster? On the moon?
You see, one of the great drawbacks of this on-line stuff is that it
almost
always involves an element of trust and uncertainty that can be faintly
off-putting for everyone involved. Knowing this, I have "played it
straight"
in dealing with the members of this list from the beginning, but if
there
are people here who can‘t handle my request that I be allowed to conceal
some bits of personal info. - for whatever reason - it seems to me
that
maybe Gow is right - maybe you *should* go do your own thing in private,
where "outsiders" can‘t interfere or intrude.
3 That said, I‘m particularly steamed about this nonsense because I‘ve
actually grown incredibly fond of most of the regular posters over
the past
few months, which is why I myself have been posting more recently -
I‘ve
been feeling more "at home". The old buddies who rib and nudge each
other -
John, Don and Ian the young uns, the Matts, Rob, and, of course,
Private
Sean who are alternately incredibly respectful and marvellously
enthusiastic the gruff old-timers who keep us all in line gently,
of
course! - Mac and Ian again! the comedians - Daves Hall and Newcombe
the knowledgeable Nova Scotians, Peter DeVries, and, of course, the
still-MIA Mike etc. etc. - I love you all figuratively speaking
only, of
course!, and lots more who I haven‘t named, too.
I am especially taken by the way almost everyone on the list usually!
shows signs of having the qualities I have always associated with the
military without, mind you, knowing a whole lot about it -
self-discipline, forbearance, appreciation for clarity and order, loyalty,
mutual respect, sense of humour, and so on. This is what I expected
to find
when I joined the list and is partly why I decided to join.
4 I also, as I have always said, joined the list because dating back
to
the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII celebration stuff I have developed
a growing interest in Canada‘s military - what it has done in the past,
how
it works, how it will handle the future, and why, to be honest, it
keeps
getting such a bad rap in the press Hence my questions on this issue
in
particular - and I figured peppering real live soldiers and vets
and wives
and friends, etc. of CF people would be more fun and more interesting
than
trying to make time to wade through a bunch of military history books,
or
spending hours trying to find my way around the DND site. If my questions
sometimes seem too dumb am sure that happens a lot!, or too numerous
that
too, lately, feel free to tell me. Or, if Mike B., or whomever, thinks
my
reasons for participating aren‘t valid/good enough, tell me that, too.
But enough already !!! with these made-up computer trails, and trumped
up
accusations, and kooky, paranoid innuendos. I don‘t think I have ever
treated anyone on this list badly or disrespectfully at least not
on
purpose, and don‘t see why I should have to put up with poor treatment
in
return.
Thus endeth the sermon. And thanks for reading!
- Joan
_________________________________________________________________________
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:13:08 -0700*
You said it very well, Rob Ayers, and I would hope that certain others 
would just "drop it" and get on with the topics. Joan, keep up your 
questions. Once in a while you do ask thought provoking questions, and 
your naive questions are asked out of all honesty and we should be able 
to answer them - even if you can‘t remember the thread on NCMs that was 
so well answered by Mike O‘Leary a few months ago. but I still don‘t 
know how a "Corporal" of today can be considered an NCO, so some of 
us/many of us still have a thing or three to learn.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rob Ayres
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:16 AM
  Subject: Re: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive 
me!
  So far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just 
kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts. 
True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has been 
turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen no 
overwhelming evidence that you are associated to either of the previous 
two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far enough.
  snip the rest
  Regards,
  Rob Ayres
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
You said it very well, Rob Ayers, and I 
would hope
that certain others would just "drop it" and get on with the topics. 
Joan, keep
up your questions. Once in a while you do ask thought provoking 
questions, and
your naive questions are asked out of all honesty and we should be able 
to
answer them - even if you can‘t remember the thread on NCMs that was so 
well
answered by Mike O‘Leary a few months ago. but I still don‘t know how a 
"Corporal" of today can be considered an NCO, so some of us/many of us 
still
have a thing or three to learn.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Rob
  Ayres 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 
8:16
  AM
  Subject: Re: An off-topic - but 
important
  - post Mike B. - Forgive me!

  So far Joan, if that is who you 
really are just
  kidding, just kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of 
silly
  posts. True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has 
been
  turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen 
no
  overwhelming evidence that you are associated to
  either of the previous two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far
  enough.

  snip the rest
  Regards,
  Rob Ayres

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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:30:07 -0800*
Well said
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rob Ayres
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:16 AM
  Subject: Re: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive 
me!
  So far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just 
kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts. 
True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has been 
turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen no 
overwhelming evidence that you are associated to either of the previous 
two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far enough.
  For those of you on this list who consider yourselves to have a stake 
of ownership or seniority with regard to this list whether it is 
because you have been here longer or are former command material or 
whatever I would suggest you suck back and reload. There is no command 
structure here. It is my choice to refer to those of you who I respect 
for your military service, experience and intelligence as "Sir" and not 
a requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient and respectful in this 
matter as the true owner of this list. We are gusts here and should 
provide each other with the respect and consideration appropriate to 
such a forum.
  I would like to commend you, Joan, for your "sticking to your guns" 
attitude. Most on this list, it seems, have no patience for personal 
inquisitions and witch hunts. This matter is bringing everyone on this 
list down and I would like to submit that it is not the responsibility 
of anyone on this list to police it or rule over it. May I remind you 
that in this country we are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY and there has 
never been cause to accuse as actual proof has never been there. If this 
were a court of law I would laugh the accusers right out of the room. 
Until something tangible can be provided no statements of an accusatory 
nature should ever have been presented. We all fall out of line now and 
again and it has always been my experience that, when I fell or an 
employee of mine, I and they, were forgiven when the situation was 
righted and we move on to something more productive.
  Joan has never made offensive comments or disparaging remarks to 
anyone and from the beginning has been respectful of the opinions 
presented by others.
  I apologise for not jumping to your defence sooner Joan but from the 
start considered the whole thing rather silly and not worthy of comment.
  On behalf of the members of this list who would support my views I 
would like to offer you an apology if you have been made to feel 
unwanted or uncomfortable.
  Your request for anonymity should be respected, as is your right, 
until you prove to be, by your own actions, other than who you state.
  Regards,
  Rob Ayres
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Well said
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Rob
  Ayres 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 
7:16
  AM
  Subject: Re: An off-topic - but 
important
  - post Mike B. - Forgive me!

  So far Joan, if that is who you 
really are just
  kidding, just kidding I have tried to stay away from this series of 
silly
  posts. True, nobody likes a fake and that is why so much attention has 
been
  turned to you with respect to this search. But, I have seen 
no
  overwhelming evidence that you are associated to
  either of the previous two fakes and quite frankly, this has gone far
  enough.
  For those of you on this list who consider 
yourselves to
  have a stake of ownership or seniority with regard to this list 
whether it is
  because you have been here longer or are former command material or
  whateverI would suggest you suck back and reload. There is no 
command
  structure here. It is my choice to refer to those of you who I 
respect for
  your military service, experience and intelligence as "Sir" and not a
  requirement Mr Bobitt has been quite patient and respectful in this 
matter as
  the true owner of this list. We are gusts here and should provide each 
other
  with the respect and consideration appropriate to such a forum. 
  I would like to commend you, Joan, for your 
"sticking to
  your guns" attitude.Most on this list, it seems, have no 
patience for
  personal inquisitions andwitch hunts. This matter is bringing 
everyone
  on this list down and I would like to submit that it is not the 
responsibility
  of anyone on this list to police it or rule over it. May I remind you 
that in
  this country we are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY and there has never 
been
  cause to accuse asactual proof has never been there. If 
this
  were a court of law I would laugh the accusers right out of the room. 
Until
  something tangible can be provided no statements of an accusatory 
nature
  should ever have been presented. We all fall out of line now and again 
and it
  has always been my experience that, when I fell or an employee of 
mine, I and
  they, were forgiven when the situation was righted and we move on to 
something
  more productive.
  Joan has never made offensive comments or 
disparaging
  remarks to anyone and from the beginning has been respectful of the 
opinions
  presented by others. 
  I apologise for not jumping to your defence 
sooner Joan
  but from the start considered the whole thing rather silly and not 
worthy of
  comment.
  On behalf of the members of this list who 
would support
  my views I would like to offer you an apology if you have been made to 
feel
  unwanted or uncomfortable.
  Your request for anonymityshould be 
respected, as
  is your right, until you prove to be, by your own actions, 
other than
  who you state.

  Regards,
  Rob 
Ayres
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----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:25:17 -0000*
Thanks Ian. And everyone else, too.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive me!
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:13:08 -0700
You said it very well, Rob Ayers, and I would hope that certain others would 
just "drop it" and get on with the topics. Joan, keep up your questions. 
Once in a while you do ask thought provoking questions, and your naive 
questions are asked out of all honesty and we should be able to answer them 
- even if you can‘t remember the thread on NCMs that was so well answered by 
Mike O‘Leary a few months ago. but I still don‘t know how a "Corporal" of 
today can be considered an NCO, so some of us/many of us still have a thing 
or three to learn.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Rob Ayres
   To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
   Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:16 AM
   Subject: Re: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive me!
   So far Joan, if that is who you really are just kidding, just kidding I 
have tried to stay away from this series of silly posts. True, nobody likes 
a fake and that is why so much attention has been turned to you with respect 
to this search. But, I have seen no overwhelming evidence that you are 
associated to either of the previous two fakes and quite frankly, this has 
gone far enough.
   snip the rest
   Regards,
   Rob Ayres
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:24:55 EST*
Boy am I offended now.  I am neither one of the enthusiastic young uns, nor 
the old boys...sheesh. 
Oh well, such is life.
Dan Short, 
El Granada, Ca. USA.
anyone need my  last 3?
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remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 06:04:35 -0000*
Definitely one of the comedians, though - only your name isn‘t Dave, so you 
didn‘t make the list. *Next* time I have to throw an on-line tantrum to 
defend my homour, though, you‘ll be Number One on the hit parade. Promise. 
:
- Missy Joan
PS - Speaking of people I forgot, Jay‘s suggestion about "marching thru the 
streets" during drills also struck me as a not bad "visibility enhancing" 
one. And, if it‘s Toronto you‘re worried about, I have the PERFECT add-on to 
the idea to get attention in *this* particular "market": How ‘bout having a 
couple of regiments battalions? divisions? platoons? squads? brigades? - Am 
still trying to learn this terminology, too, even though I know we had a 
*big* round of posts on this sort of thing not long ago... march in the Gay 
Pride Parade? After all, how much more "community-friendly" and Torontoesque 
could you get???
The above is meant *entirely* as a joke. For the love of God, PLEASE don‘t 
start flaming me, and if we can skip the whole "gays in the military 
debate", that would be a good thing, too, at least in my books.
----Original Message Follows----
From: CoastDanny@aol.com
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: An off-topic - but important - post Mike B. - Forgive me!
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:24:55 EST
Boy am I offended now.  I am neither one of the enthusiastic young uns, nor
the old boys...sheesh.
Oh well, such is life.
Dan Short,
El Granada, Ca. USA.
anyone need my  last 3?
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
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