# CSIS report: some Canadian politicians under foreign influence



## CougarKing (22 Jun 2010)

> *Some politicians under foreign influence: CSIS*
> Last Updated: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 | 9:33 PM ET
> CBC News
> 
> ...


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## daftandbarmy (23 Jun 2010)

Well that explains everything. And for all these years I thought that many of BC's local politicians were aliens from a planet in the Crab nebula...


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## wannabe SF member (23 Jun 2010)

If a crown minister was indeed found to be working for a foreign power, do you think we'd actually follow through with treason charges?


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## Michael OLeary (23 Jun 2010)

Inky said:
			
		

> If a crown minister was indeed found to be working for a foreign power, do you think we'd actually follow through with treason charges?



Firstly, that would depend on whether their actions met the legal definition of treason.

Treason and other Offences against the Queen’s Authority and Person



> *PART II
> OFFENCES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER
> Treason and other Offences against the Queen’s Authority and Person*
> 
> ...


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## Journeyman (23 Jun 2010)

Variations on a theme. Canadian politicians' involvement with groups deemed terrorists (even by Canada) is not new, although _statistically_, it seems to be more of a Liberal penchant.

For example, I'd posted two links previously regarding the Liberals and the Tamil Tigers (you know, those nice folks who effectively _invented_ suicide bombing). 
To avoid repetition and bandwidth wastage, see:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/86583/post-858418.html#msg858418
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89668/post-882243.html#msg882243


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## GK .Dundas (23 Jun 2010)

Inky said:
			
		

> If a crown minister was indeed found to be working for a foreign power, do you think we'd actually follow through with treason charges?


 Nope! According to a lawyer friend of mine there is  a concern that  that the act under which you'd be charged under  might not stand up to a Charter of Rights Challenge .Then again there's always the Not Withstanding clause


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## 1feral1 (23 Jun 2010)

Interesting topic.

I was thinking should there be any bad apples within governments as CSIS thinks, would these be Canadians who were landed immigrants, who have since recieved their citizenship, and ho were born and raised in another country, with family back in their homelands (possibly threatened), or sympathetic to his homeland's current political situation, and still loyal to his/her place of birth. Say for example the MP is elected to his position from by his own ethinic 'citizens', like from places in Canada's larger cities wher such ethnic ghettos exist? 

Don't get me wrong, but I can't realy see, say for example a 7th or 8th generation Canadian born person, say again from NW European ancestry doing such a thing, as there is no real reason. Money perhaps?

OWDU


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## TimBit (23 Jun 2010)

What is also interesting is
1. The timing of this release, G8 and all.
2. The very fact that it was authorized in the first place... clearly not an independant decision.

I wonder what gain the political masters saw in this announcement.


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## OldSolduer (23 Jun 2010)

This is not new. One only has to look at Pierre Elliot Trudeau. He held Fidel Castro in great esteem.

All through out the Cold War, cabinet ministers and civil servants in the UK were compromised with monotonous regularity.


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## Staff Weenie (23 Jun 2010)

Hmmmmm - doesn't Trudeau's son have a thing for Castro as well? Why do they think that he's some kindly old man?


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## The Bread Guy (23 Jun 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> What is also interesting is
> 1. The timing of this release, G8 and all.
> 2. The very fact that it was authorized in the first place... clearly not an independant decision.
> 
> I wonder what gain the political masters saw in this announcement.


Other items adding to the timing mix:
1b.  "Chinese president's Canada visit to boost ties":  "Chinese President Hu Jintao will start his Canada visit on Wednesday, leaving open opportunities for unprecedented cooperation between the two countries, according to local China watchers.  Prior to the G20 summit in Toronto this weekend, Hu's second official state visit to Canada will feature discussions on the country's abundant natural resources, the finalization of the Approved Destination Status (ADS), Asia-Pacific trade, climate change issues and cultural exchanges.  "They will also talk about relationship building," said Richard Lee who currently sits in the British Columbia legislature as the Parliamentary Secretary for the Asia-Pacific Initiative...."
1c.  "PM must talk human rights with China: coalition"

I was wondering about point 2 as well - this scale of interview, with this level and kind of official, must need _very_ high levels of approval to happen.


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## Danjanou (23 Jun 2010)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> Hmmmmm - doesn't Trudeau's son have a thing for Castro as well? Why do they think that he's some kindly old man?



You mean aside from the calling him "Uncle Fidel" thing? 8)


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## Bruce Monkhouse (23 Jun 2010)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Interesting topic.
> 
> I was thinking should there be any bad apples within governments as CSIS thinks, would these be Canadians who were landed immigrants, who have since recieved their citizenship, and ho were born and raised in another country, with family back in their homelands (possibly threatened), or sympathetic to his homeland's current political situation, and still loyal to his/her place of birth. Say for example the MP is elected to his position from by his own ethinic 'citizens', like from places in Canada's larger cities wher such ethnic ghettos exist?
> 
> ...



You can't see it because you're so hopelessly pathetically racist only a corn-fed Bible thumping WASP will meet your expectations..................


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## OldSolduer (23 Jun 2010)

Just about anyone can be compromised.  The main reasons?

Cash - good old fashioned greed

Sex - Cabinet ministers and others that can't resist

Revenge - "I'll show them"

Ideology - perhaps the most dangerous of all.

I don't think race nor ethnicity has anything to do with it. Soviet citizens and American citizens often fed the other side info during the Cold War.

Spycatcher is a good read. It was written by a Deputy Director of MI5 I beleive. There was a ring of spies within high levels of the British Intelligence services, and all were born in Britain.


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## TimBit (23 Jun 2010)

Yeah, the oft-used acronym is MICE - money, ideology, conscience, ego. Also OWDU, THink about the german americans and/or canadians during WWII. Some of them had been here a LONG TIME... yet that didn't stop SOME of them from helping out nazi Germany. Even though they were of european descent...


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## 1feral1 (23 Jun 2010)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> You can't see it because you're so hopelessly pathetically racist only a corn-fed Bible thumping WASP will meet your expectations..................



Sure Bruce  :


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## The Bread Guy (23 Jun 2010)

This from the Canadian Press:


> Canada's senior spy is backtracking on remarks that he's working to oust politicians under control of foreign governments.
> 
> In a statement, Richard Fadden said foreign interference is common in many countries around the world and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service has been investigating such threats for decades.
> 
> ...


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## OldSolduer (23 Jun 2010)

McGuinty's remark is moronic. 

Foreign agents don't always contact people of their own race.


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## mellian (23 Jun 2010)

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> McGuinty's remark is moronic.
> 
> Foreign agents don't always contact people of their own race.



Re-read what he said, he _dismissed _ such claims, not the one making them.


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## OldSolduer (23 Jun 2010)

mellian said:
			
		

> Re-read what he said, he _dismissed _ such claims, not the one making them.


My apologies.

For once he made sense.


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## MarkOttawa (24 Jun 2010)

Norman Spector spots the key thing:

CSIS and l’affaire Fadden: “Heads should roll all right – heads at the CBC.”
http://unambig.com/csis-and-laffaire-fadden-heads-should-roll-all-right-%E2%80%93-heads-at-the-cbc/

Mark
Ottawa


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## The Bread Guy (24 Jun 2010)

....here on the CSIS web page:


> “Recent comments I made in the context of a special report by the CBC on CSIS have given rise to some concerns about foreign interference in Canada.  The following statement is meant to place those comments in context.
> 
> All of the activities of the Service take place within the law and the CSIS Act in particular.  The CSIS Act requires the Service to investigate threats to the security of Canada – including foreign interference.  The Service has been investigating and reporting on such threats for many years.  Foreign interference is a common occurrence in many countries around the world and has been for decades.
> 
> ...


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## GK .Dundas (24 Jun 2010)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Norman Spector spots the key thing:
> 
> CSIS and l’affaire Fadden: “Heads should roll all right – heads at the CBC.”
> http://unambig.com/csis-and-laffaire-fadden-heads-should-roll-all-right-%E2%80%93-heads-at-the-cbc/
> ...


 
 I have to admit  I really thought the timing of the story was really strange, Because the CBC had to know what the effect of such a story .


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## UoTJustin (24 Jun 2010)

I've followed china's foreign more or less during the years. I don't know the seriousness of these cases but I think they can be viewed in the larger context of China's grab for natural resources. 

China's economy depends largely on importing natural resources from Australia, South America, Africa and the middle east. Part of their foreign policy is directed at securing resources for the future and they have made signed many many treaties with countries in those regions. Essentially anyone with natural resources can expect a knock on their door. 



(to mod, sorry for reposting a open discussion in the wrong forum)


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## OldSolduer (24 Jun 2010)

"I don't think that in the history of Canada there has ever been a* verified *  agent of influence."

Yes, verified. So how many unverified agents have there been?


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## GK .Dundas (24 Jun 2010)

Doesn't Fred Rose qualify for the title.


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## Antoine (25 Jun 2010)

Michel Juneau-Katsuya warned us many times in the past about similar threats. So, what's next?


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## MarkOttawa (25 Jun 2010)

Then there's this case:

Zhang v. Treasury Board (Privy Council Office) 
http://pslrb-crtfp.gc.ca/decisions/summaries/2010-46_e.asp



> ...
> The grievor was terminated from her position as a direct consequence of the revocation of her Secret security clearance – she successfully grieved the termination and the adjudicator ordered the employer to conduct a diligent search for an alternate position for her – the search was unsuccessful and her employment was terminated once again – the present grievances were filed alleging that the employer had failed to conduct a diligent search and had acted in bad faith – the employer was ordered to produce, in advance of the hearing, certain documents relevant to the grievances – it produced several of the documents but refused to provide others, arguing that they should remain confidential on the grounds of labour relations privilege – a hearing was convened to deal with the employer’s refusal to produce the documents – the documents in question were communications between labour relations officers or between labour relations officers and management representatives about the course of action to take with respect to the grievor in light of the decision to reinstate – the adjudicator held that while the documents were arguably relevant, labour relations privilege had not been recognized as a class privilege and that the Wigmore test had to be applied – while the relationship between management representatives ought to be sedulously fostered, the interests of those actors must be balanced with the need to ensure the proper administration of justice – the fourth criterion of the Wigmore test favoured disclosure – the grievor’s right to a fair hearing outweighed the need to protect confidentiality of communications – the issues raised by the grievances stem from an order of an adjudicator and not from decisions made by the employer at its own discretion – the issue relates to the credibility of the grievance process and respect for orders issued by adjudicators.
> 
> Objection dismissed.



More:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-mp-olivia-chow-slams-baseless-spy-stories/article1617168/



> ...
> Few have felt the brunt of the spy service’s fears like Haiyan Zhang, a Chinese-born Canadian and rising star in Ottawa’s civil service until she reached its core, the Privy Council Office, in 2003.
> 
> Ms. Zhang was fired after a CSIS security-screening investigation cited her previous work in Cairo as a journalist for Xinhua, the Beijing-controlled news service, and her attendance at receptions in Ottawa co-hosted by the Foreign Affairs department and the Chinese embassy.
> ...



Loyal civil servant or threat to national security? [2008]
Recently declassified documents reveal how several Ottawa agencies worked to rid the bureaucracy of one of its rising stars
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/article681871.ece

Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (25 Jun 2010)

No journalistic malfeasance by the CBC:

L’affaire Fadden: Norman respectates
http://unambig.com/laffaire-fadden-norman-respectates/



> ...
> The CBC interview was not held in the can...



Mark
Ottawa


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## The Bread Guy (25 Jun 2010)

More here from Brian Stewart who put together the piece.


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