# Asthma & the CF (merged thread)



## rickeytan

I just filled out an application and want to know how long it will take (assuming everything goes well) to get into the reserves and start the basic training. I want to challenge myself both physically and mentally, as well as aquire some new skills.


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## bender

If it goes well your looking at a couple months. And don‘t get your hopes up on being challenge physicaly and mentally in the reserves. It‘s pretty slack and there‘s no standards. Better than working in a burger joint though!


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## portcullisguy

> Originally posted by bender:
> [qb]If it goes well your looking at a couple months. And don‘t get your hopes up on being challenge physicaly and mentally in the reserves. It‘s pretty slack and there‘s no standards. Better than working in a burger joint though![/qb]


Oh thank god for that, Bender!  And here I let the medical sgt. and the WO who interviewed me get me all worked up... telling me things like I might have to do lots of running around carrying heavy rucksacks and weapons, marching cross country, doing PT, getting up early, going to bed late, eating crap food, sitting outdoors having to stay alert for long periods of time, listening to 19 yr old corporals yell at me...  I thought it‘d be like the army, but you‘re saying now it‘s just a cakewalk... whew...


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## Garett

I became an officer because it was a way to get good training in the reserves.  Now they‘ve even changed that.


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## Korus

How long will it take? I dropped off my papers in October, and still waiting... (actually, I needed to get some extra medical info, so that‘s why it‘s been taking soo bloody long)

As for the physical challenge.. well.. Don‘t know about that yet, but regardless I‘m in the gym or running or swimming every day (or any conbination thereof). When the snow/ice melts, I‘m going to start biking to class.. (30-45 min bike ride at a good clip, including huge hill). 

I wish I had time to do more, though... And all my hardcore-civie buddies laugh at me for getting to campus at 7:45 in the morning to go for a jog before class at 9... oh well. Their loss.


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## bender

Portcullisguy- Yeah that‘s pretty much what i‘m saying about the Res! On my QL3 we hardly ever did PT and when we did the rule on the base was that we couldn‘t run,so we‘d end up going for a walk and doing a few push/sit/pull ups!  As for your 13Km ruck march that was scraped too! As for having to stay up on a "stand to" for long periods of time, that was also a joke. You‘d just be chatting with your buddy and having a smoke. I even think that we were supposed to get at least 6 hours of sleep every night while we were in the feild from 12 to 6. We didn‘t get those 6 hours but you‘ll only be out in the feild a few nights anyway. If ya can‘t handle a couple nights with minimal sleep find another job. As for training back at your unit they can push you more then when we were on QL3 but it‘ll only be a friday night,saturday, and sunday you‘ll be saying to yourself "I wonder what i‘ll have for supper tonight?" I‘m not saying it‘s the fault of our officers or higher ups, they‘re pretty limited in what they can do because of the limited resources they have to work with. 

 The only time i‘ve really had to push myself is when I went away and trained with the british regs for cambrai patrol. As a side note, I‘m only speaking for the reserves, i‘ve heard better things about our reg force guys.

 I‘m just venting don‘t mind me...  :tank:      :fifty:


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## enfield

The thing that challenged mne the most in the Militia was doing Ceremonial Guard with the PLF in Halifax a couple summers ago (after I did the MG course with our newest pointy-head Garett). It was a new idea, first time it‘d been run, and was given to a sergeant to organize and run. He had a couple Mcpl/Cpl‘s to help him and it was staffed by soldiers who wanted summer work or were between courses. Great summer. 
However, since it was run by a sergeant, no officers around, no standards to meet, nothing, it was... revealing.
I think the easiest PT we did was 10km runs. For anyone who knows Halifax we did circuit training on the Commons, and relays up and down Citadel Hill. Damn, it was F**king hard! Pt was 1-1.5 hours every morning, and then the day began - drill, standing at attention for an hour 3 times a day, TCCS familiarization, playing on the FATS range, or polishing kit. Then downtown afterwards. Great summer, really challenging - and all because there was no standard, no officers, no oversight, and no interference.


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## bender

Sounds it was a good summer. It looks like there‘s hope for this summer. There are alot of oppenings for courses usually not availible to res guys. I think this is a resullt of so many soliders overseas.


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## Disturbance

Portcullisguy

carrying heavy rucksacks -maybe not far but you will
 and weapons - uh hello of course
 marching cross country- yup did a bunch of that too
 doing PT - yup did a bit of that too
 getting up early, going to bed late - I was working pretty much constantly from 630 to 1030 everyday
 eating crap food - sometimes but most of the time its good
 sitting outdoors having to stay alert for long periods of time - wait till your defensive ex
 listening to 19 yr old corporals yell at me - MAster Corporals
... I thought it‘d be like the army, but you‘re saying now it‘s just a cakewalk... whew... -WHAT THE ****  whew. You should want it to be hard!!


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## ryemaybee

Hey guys I know I‘m in the infantry forum but being new to the site I thought I‘d look around a bit. 
Courses...seem to me to be entirely dependant on the willingness of the course staff to provide troops with decent training, particularly in PT. It‘s a bit of a fine line, as some guys just try to show off and run candidates into the ground without making any improvements to their PT ability. Or their motivation towards it. Others do no PT at all or play alot of "sports" and fail to condition their soldiers for the field. 
As for wanting it to be hard as "Disturbance" suggested I have to agree, if you aren‘t pushing your mental, and physical limits you aren‘t doing it right. The nature of the reserve, with no contract signed, no job protection etc, means that it is difficult to enforce any sort of PT standard on the troops as they have the legit excuse of lack of workup. That said it is the duty of every soldier to maintain a high level of fitness so they can function in the field, reservist or no. The army could really help the issue by disseminating a national PT standard and program for reg and reserve units.
As for "19yr old Corporals yelling at you" ask yourself how long a soldier has been soldiering first, and don‘t even bother worrying about how old your staff is. They are instructors because they have the required training and skill. Do what they say when they say it and you are less likely to be yelled at as well.
Sorry for the lengthy post guys.


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## robreadman

What‘s the procedure on mild, manageable asthma?


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## 311

Well...I used to have asthma and they made me take a letter to my docter..and make him say that its gone...So I guess even if its managible, it could be a problem.


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## robreadman

That‘s Disheartening. What if you can do the fitness tests and exercise all without any medication?


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## Michael OLeary

What you can do in the gym, well-rested, lightly attired and unstressed, is a far cry from the potential conditions of exertion when you are tired, hungry, wet and cold, after sucking dust, diesel fumes and pollen for days in the field, with little sleep and under the pressure of assessment, or worse, having to consider the possibly lethal results of poor decision-making. Imagine trying to do it in the continued presence of every trigger for the condition you can imagine being present.

Mike


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## Jungle

You can always try to hide it during the recruiting process, but it very well may catch up to you eventually considering the conditions we have to live/work in at times. Also, it is quite possible that you are released  from the CF through the back door for lying during the recruitment process. Up to you... but I advise telling the truth and getting proper evaluation of your condition, and accepting the consequences. It is for your own good, and that of people around you should you join.


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## Illucigen

Safe bet, call your Doctor. ask your doctor what he thinks. CFRC will give you a form for him to sign anyway, and the form will basically confirm his ideas of the types of stresses your body needs to endure. In essense, you wont need the form, he can live off of his expectations of what the miltiary is to judge your condition. If he says maybe, then go down and ask to speek to med pers.


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## ggranatstein

Hi all,

A friend of mine is looking to join up in the reserves - specifically logisitcs, like me. He will have no problem meeting all the requirements but suffers from mild asthma. 

It is nothing that causes attacks, but makes it slighltly harder to run if he does not use an inhaler. Will this restrict his entry into the army?

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks for your time!

Gabriel


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## portcullisguy

I have seen guys use an inhaler, I have no idea as to their medical status on entry into the CF however.

I would _imagine_ (in other words I don‘t really know) that if the asthma wasn‘t TOO bad, as in it could be controlled, then he‘d be ok.  Would probably expect to have to provide a medical certificate.

Best option - ask a recruiter, or medical pers working in a recruiting office.


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## klumanth

I had a guy on my three‘s course with asthma.  He made it just fine but he did have a tough time with PT, especially runs.  Mind you he was also lazy.  In short, your friend shouldn‘t have any major problems with joining the army.  The recruiting process may be slower however, because there may be more paperwork to fill out.


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## robreadman

I‘m Currently in the recruiting process as a reserve officer and I have mild asthma. I told the Medical personnel about it and Then I had to send some document to my doctor and he is taking his sweet time filling those out, it does make the process take longer but it shouldn‘t be too much of a problem. It all depends on what the medical review board thinks that‘s the main thing.


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## Joel85

Here‘s the scoop. I went for all my pre-enrolment evaluations on May 6th of this year. I passed the physical test, (26 sit-ups, 26 push-ups, 100 lbs hand grip, no problems with the step test). I passed the aptitude, and the recruiter told my I was an above average applicant. My medical went okay, I had to get a doctor‘s note to explain my asthma (very mild) and a note about a concussion i received a few years ago.

Now, I don‘t want to sound like a whiner, but should it really take this long? I applied to the Loyal Edmonton Regiment, which is always looking for people. Should I give up hope?

Any answers, or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## AceLuttmann

Hello everyone, To start i want to thank you all for serving your country. So God Bless all of you. Im giving some serious thought on joining the reserves in a field of communications. My main concern is with the basic training, I think this might be a concern with others before they do it, but mine is mainly with the fact that i ahve asthma.I can say its fairly bad but im hoping this wont affect me too much but i think it will.Has anyone did basic with asthma and  or getting ready to?????? Im curious to see how hard it really is to get prepard for the worst. I hope to get no harsh words for asking a "Silly" question but im just looking for a few answers so i can follow my path in the Army.


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## PTE Gruending

Without knowing anything about medical conditions concerning the CF:

PT in basic (at least in the Reserve force) is not very strenuous (in my experience anyways). And for the most part it  _can_ be done at your own pace. I am sure the instructors will not dog you for popping out of a jog or some circuit training to take a huff of your "respirator".


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## AceLuttmann

Ok, well that worries me a little less. Thank you.Another concern of mnie is if you own money through bills or credit cards you will have to pay what is unpaid before you can join. Is that true???? I owe about $2000.00 in total so im a little worried about that. Sorry about the questions.


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## Danno

Yes, I would like to know the answer to that question as well.  I still have about $10,000 in student loans to pay off!


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## belt fed

If you think you have debit problems that might hinder your enrollment, my suggestion is to go to a professional, not-for-profit debit consolidator. I read a post somewhere that suggested this was showing the army that you are taking control of your finances and it would certainly take some worry away regardless


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## UlteriorAxiom

Hello,

I‘m new to this forum... and I‘m considering joining the military myself.


As for your Asthma condition. What is not commonly not known about asthma, migraines, early stages of diabetes, arthritus, high blood pressure and many other ailments is that they are compensations or effects due to a simple problem.

You‘re Dehydrated!

Yes, your body is very low on water and it‘s trying to prevent loss of water through respiration, which consequently hinders your breathing for obvious reasons.

To solve this problem, drink water frequently... Filtered water. Bottled water is no substitute, as many of them are straight from municipal water supplies anyhow.

The other thing you should consider doing, is mixing some Unrefined Sea Salt with the water... This natural sea salt is essential for life, and you can‘t live without it. The refined salt you buy in most stores is actually a poison, and is why doctors recommend limiting salt intake. It‘s been heated, refined, and so on to remove the essential minerals in it, because they are worth more than the salt itself.

The real salt is harmless to excess. Get this from a natural foods store ... The salt helps your system store water more effectively, contains many essential minerals, and for your condition loosen the mucus in the lungs, so its easier to breathe. It does many more things as well, but I‘ll leave you up to your own research on that.

As for the ratio, I use about 1/4 teaspoon per litre of filtered water. You don‘t even taste it... And Real Unrefined Salt tastes better than the processed stuff anyhow.

It‘s part of the problem with our foods today... Like processed wheat... It‘s white, and looks good, but the real nutrition is no longer there.

Hope this helps...
UlteriorAxiom


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## Spr.Earl

Oh Guy‘s if you have to ask!

Yes comining in to the Force‘s your training will be tough for this day and age but not what you see in the movies i.e. U.S. crap (sorry Sherwood)or what the Force‘s used to be like.

Just make sure you can run farely well and can swim,do push up‘s,chin up‘s sit up‘s etc.

Just make sure your in farely good shape and that will be improved on during your training and further when you reach your Regiment‘s.

Good Luck!


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## Jarnhamar

> PT in basic (at least in the Reserve force) is not very strenuous (in my experience anyways). And for the most part it can be done at your own pace.


On risk of sounding like a prick this is why our military has both the LOWEST physical fitness standards AND level in all of NATO.


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## Sauder

I‘m only 15 but i was just curious if they allow asthmatics in the cf any info? THNX


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## finbar

When you admit to the MO or Physicians Assistant that you suffer from asthma your entire application process will come to a screeching halt. You will be required to take what‘s called a "methacholine" challenge test. This test requires that you stop taking any and all asthma med‘s for one month. The test will be administered by a Respirologist at a hospital. The test is designed to measure your lung output volume while attempting to stimulate an asthmatic response. If you do have asthma, they will give some ventolin to counter the response. The CF views asthma as "a career limitation" depending upon your trade. Rule yourself out for diving and aircrew. Inf??? their crying for guys in the infantry. Good Luck

Note: do not withhold this medical information, penalties are swift and severe


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## Sauder

I just had to be born with asthma! owell thnx for the info.


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## chriscalow

Asthma is touchy, but when it is controlled it‘s not usually a problem.  There are a few olympic medallists that had asthma.  I‘ve seen people with asthma go very far, I guess it depends on the person.


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## Pte. Bloggins

Hey Ace,
I‘m in the communications reserve and just did my basic, and that PT at your own pace thing just ain‘t true (unless you‘re an MIR commando...hehe). So just do your best and even with your asthma it should be ok.


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## combat_medic

UlteriorAxiom: Yes, you can be short of breath when you‘re dehydrated, but you don‘t suddently develop chronic asthma from missing a drink of water. This kid has been diagnosed with asthma, I would assume by an MD, so I don‘t think the solution is to tell him to drink bottled water. Even holy water wouldn‘t make his asthma go away.

AceLuttmann: Yes, you asthma will be a concern. When you go in for your medical testing, they will test to see the extent of your asthma, and from there they will make a decision. The reason for this, is that they need to see that you can still function if supply lines are cut and you‘re without your meds for a period of time. 

Danno: As you student loans, I don‘t believe they check how much debt you have, but rather how good/bad your credit is. If you have debt but are making regular payments, then it‘s not a huge issue, but if you constntly miss payments and your credit history is shyt, then they‘ll be a lot more concerned.


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## iamcanadian3885

Hello there,

I was wondering about if there is ANYTHING I could do to remedy my situation.  When I was younger I had asthma (I‘m 18 now).  Now, a year and a half ago I recieved medication to trial on whether or not I had exercise enduced asthma, which was found to be false.  It all had related to a cold I was suffering.  So after spending the past 10 months trying to get tests done to prove I don‘t have asthma, I finally show I don‘t, and I get rejected saying that the documentation recieved let them to believe I have excise enduced asthma/cold wheather enduced asthma.  My doctor is shocked that I was refused, as in his opinion, and mine, I don‘t have these conditions.  I run fine, never have asthma attacks, never would, I know for a fact.  I play very active sports (Rugby, Hockey) in all weather conditons, and yet they still believe that I have these forms of asthma.  Since my application cannot pass without approval from the medical staff, I am out of luck, and was wondering what I could do to show them... 

I really want to get in, I have the ability no doubt...

Thanks,


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## dano

What you need to do is start getting doctors notes stating and explaining what happended and that it wouldn‘t effect you‘re performence, ect.


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## shaunlin41

Try getting your family doctor to write a medical letter, I know it can be expensive but it may help though you should First ask cfrc if it would help to get such a letter and ask if there is something else that is the reason for your rejection, the asthma may be smoke and mirrors?


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## jutes85

I think that the military doctors blow things out of porportion. I had a similar situation a couple of months ago when i applied. During the medical i said that i had a past hockey injury regarding my shoulder. I was not sure if i dislocated it or not, but tests done on it (my shoulder) the day after said it was just a slight torn muscle, with no dislocation evidence. Well, my medical examiner, who is a moron, IMHO, made a huge deal about how i must get some kind of putty surgery or something like that to stablize it. Although, there was ablsolutely NO EVIDENCE of a seperation. I showed him this file, but it did not convince him and he made me goto a orthipedic specialist. Luckily, my neighbor is one so i did not have to wait. Finally, he accepted it and i finished my reqruitment. He waisted 2 months of my life and made me miss Basic this fall, so i have to wait for the one this spring i believe.

So, you never know what moron might screw you over.


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## iamcanadian3885

Thanks for the info and ideas...

I think I‘ll go to my doctor ASAP. I‘m sure he‘ll write something up, like I said before, he was shocked to find out I was rejected.  

Also, from the looks of it, the Major that looked over my medical info, must not have read into all the detail I sent.  My doctor stated several times in the notes that there was nothing that could stop me from performing well.  

Just wish things could get straitened out, I first applied 10 months ago, and all I‘ve done since is get test after test that SHOW I don‘t have any problems.


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## Duotone81

3885, I know EXACTLY what you‘re going through. A few years ago I applied for the reserves while I was in school. Everything was good to go except for the blood pressure part of my medical. I had to get a doctor‘s note saying I was fine and I did. The GP saw no problems with my blood pressure and concluded that I suffer from "white coat hypertension" which means I get anxious in a hospital. Some people can‘t stand heights or closed spaces or spiders. I don‘t like hospitals. Borden got the note and was unconvinced and sent me to see a cardiologist. He also saw no problem with me. He‘s a heart specialist to boot!! Borden in all their wisdom deemed me medically unfit for the CF until I get the blood pressure in a more stable range. I believe the cardiologist found my average BP at 132/72. I was within a healthy range according to him. I qualified for every MOC from my CFAT, the PO told me my application was competitve for RMC and I was running a 7 minute mile but none of that means anything until this pain in my a** issue is taken care of. My advice to you would be to go back to the recruiting centre to find out exactly if you can re-apply after a later date if your situation improves and see a specialist in the mean time to see how you can minimize the affects of your condition.

Good luck bro


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## Joel85

I got shafted too because of a cuncussion 3 years ago. The medical board seriously needs to stop letting minor medical problems get in the way. They‘re allowing a lot of very valuable prospective soldiers to slip away.


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## Enzo

Sorry guys, got you all beat. I posted a thread about it awhile ago, it was long and detailed, look it up. Here‘s the thing, injured in infantry, got out. Healed, on way back in, civ dr. wrote, "mild lower back pain" in a section of my file. He asked me, "do you ever experience back pain," I answered honestly (first mistake) that, "I get the occasional twinge."

I‘m coming up on 4 years now. All due to that one line. I‘ve been tested and found fit so many times now, I‘ve lost count. IMHO the meds at Borden who decide this have no clear concept of what reality is like. But I‘m biased and a bit bitter eh I‘ve finally had to go to a local MLA, he‘s reviewed this and feels the same as I do, that I‘m overly qualified and more than capable, so hopefully there will be a new outcome for me by Christmas. How‘s that for a waste of my time eh?

For the record, when I finally get this resolved, I doubt I‘ll return as a Pvt. to the Infantry. I‘m a commercial pilot and a commercial diver attaining a degree at college right now, so I‘m thinking of something else. First love will always be the infantry though, it was probably the best time of my life, which is odd when you think about all the pain and work eh?


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## cronos

Wow. Almost looks discouraging to me. I had a sports injury years and years ago, and was diagnosed with a laxed knee cap, etc. I had orthoscopic surgery, and can perform excellent with one of those stupid foam wraps around my knee, but it just makes me wonder what hoops I‘m going to have to jump through to get through the medical exam.


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## Benoit

I wounder would a hernia prevent form getting in?


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## Sig_Des

Hah, think thats funny,

I‘m an army brat, just applied for the forces..finish my medical, and the WO who headed the sections says, ok, I just have to get you to get these papers filled out by docs...

120$ and a week later, my medical is on its way to get processed.

2 & a 1/2 months later, i get a letter informing me that I don‘t meet the Canadian Military Enrollment Standard, because I have a food Allergy to peanuts..

So now, I need to pay for an allergy test, and get a note from a doc who says I don‘t need an epi-pen...otherwise, no army

Passed everything else, just that stupid allergy.

Bah!


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## Enzo

Well, you never know when some rat ******* somewhere will throw a peanut at you.

And I suppose you aren‘t able to be responsible to yourself in terms of how you eat? Guess your parents had to prepare everything for you until this very day? My God man, what WERE you thinking???

In the words of John Cleese from "The Meaning of Life," I‘m sorry sir, you‘re NOT QUALIFIED.

Seriously, makes you want to just smack the the runt who sits and plays omnipotent master to the all mighty checklist. Whatever happened to common sense? To embracing the human spirit? I suppose you can, once you‘ve gotten past the all knowing doctor‘s and personnel of CFRC.

Suck it up, pass the test and don‘t look back. Be grateful you‘ll be able to sort this out and be on course by next year. Try not to become jaded like me, I‘m one pissed off Infanteer. It‘s something I spend many hours attempting to deal with, and it‘s not suppose to be a hobbie.

Whenever I think to myself, ****  with it, I‘ll have enough credits to apply for Vancouver PD by next summer (and they‘ve already shown a good deal of interest, full disclosure included) I just have to walk through Esquimalt for awhile. Doesn‘t take too long for me to pass a few going into Timmy‘s and looking like heart attacks waiting to happen. I get so flipping frustrated and annoyed with this bloody system, and then I remind myself, it is a system and I have to accept and work within it. It sucks, but that‘s the way it is. Maybe one day changes will happen, until then, (I apologize in advance to anyone I‘ll offend with this next bit, but I observed it and so I‘m going to repeat it) we live in a world where reservist Second-Lieutenant‘s proudly compare their weekend Basic Training course to Reg Force Infantry Battle School. That one picks at me. The fact that one of them was a MARS officer who was working in an office position because she "gets motion sick." after training to be a MARS officer, basically summed up the situation nicely.

I feel better, thanks for allowing me to vent guys. Honestly, I don‘t intend to come across so sour, I just need an outlet sometimes, and my girlfriends tiring of it.


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## SFontaine

Hey do you think an allergy to penicillin and sulfa would affect me?


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## iamcanadian3885

Hey guys,

I went to my doc about the original issue I had, he was shocked like I said, and gave me a not saying I have no form of asthma what so ever...

Which is true, aside from how I feel when I run (no problems).  I had tests done as well that SHOWED I had no asthma... 

I don‘t get it??... all the doc at Borden had to do was to look at the test results and translations that I sent him, and voila, I‘m in...

Now I gotta call the recruiting centre and see how I can go about contesting the docs results in Borden...

It‘s been a full year since I first applied now


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## Brian McMillan

The Canadian Armed Forces, voted "The  Worst Managed in the Western World" by Janes Defence Weekly.  Is it any wonder that you‘ve waited a year?  I applied  about a month ago, and am now intimately acquainted with the concept of VFS.  I can comfortably predict that at this time next year I will still be waiting for my service record to be plucked from the dank depths of National Archives.


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## Enzo

Where to begin 3885.

IMHO: The paper pushers at CFRC Borden are out of touch and lazy. The Lt. who made the decision against me still hasn‘t returned my calls. I left messages for a few months, tired of that (ok, that was a couple of years ago now    ). I was polite and required information. That I don‘t actually warrant the courtesy of a return phone call... why leave the contact # on the paper that was sent to me? Must be busier than I thought.

As for the hurdles I‘ve had to run through? Enjoy. I‘ve been to 3 specialist‘s. All have passed me as more than fit. I have my Commercial Dive Medical and worked this past summer as a working commercial diver on the aquaculture systems (11hr days, DCIEM dive tables maxed daily, with full kit on 1200 yd systems, etc...) and can honestly say that I worked harder than a PID Diver (no offense intended to those guys, just the almighty $$$ determines commercial work and corners are cut; not always safely)

CFRC didn‘t simply give me a list and say, get this done then come back. It‘s always, one thing at a time; then wait 4 months for a reply. Years pass. Here‘s where the circle completes. Finally, they asked me to go to an Orthopaedic Surgeon for his assessment. An Ortho (who charges $1200-1600) won‘t actually see me; not his field. Take this info into CFRC who respond (3 months later) w/ "go to a physiatrist."

According to my dictionary: physiatrist see: physÂ·iÂ·cal medÂ·iÂ·cine 

"the branch of medicine concerned with the diagnosis of injuries or physical conditions and their treatment by external means, including heat, massage, or exercise, rather than by medication or surgery."
Also called physiatrics

I‘ve already been to 3 specialist who meet that criteria. I‘m waiting for an explanation as to why this has taken 4 bloody years????

All I get is the usual nonsense about, "The CF requires it‘s members to meet the minimum physical requirement, etc..." This coming from someone who is a good 20 pounds overweight and hasn‘t left a desk, since basic?? Not to mention the disrespect I get when I it‘s explained to me in very clear terms what the physical requirements are and the life I "can expect" in the CF. Jesus, I was already in the Reg Force Infantry, does that just not count for anything??? I think I have some "experience" as to what I can expect when I am in the military?!? I was injured for 5 weeks before I was taken off course and required surgery. In hindsight, I should have taken a recourse in the first week, healed and then carried on, but I was stubborn, motivated and I didn‘t want to quit. I worked hard to get what I wanted and I wasn‘t about to go sit on my ***  for 6 months.

My CSM @ 52 had the same procedure performed on him, and he was going strong until he was forced into retirement @ 53. (Accumulated 1.5 yrs worth of leave and they didn‘t want to pay him out. Another asset goes to waste)

Yeah, I get it. I chose to release so that I could heal properly; I didn‘t agree with the methods of rehabilitation used on my base (If you could call sitting on a Swedish ball once a week rehabilitation) And now that I have, I‘m going to fight this until I‘m 51, I swear. If you want something badly enough, then fight for it. I‘m qualified, stubborn and a ****ed good soldier. Don‘t let some REMF stop you from achieving that which you want. Ever. If you can laugh along the way, then show me how, I have trouble sometimes


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## Enzo

From the final report of the Minister‘ Monitoring Committee on Land Force Reserve Restructure (LFRR) and Professional Development, Education, and Leadership:

"There are, nonetheless, some problem areas. Foremost among these is an enrolment process that generally appears to be more risk averse than is natural for a fighting force. In the Committee view, the CF should be more inclined to manage risk rather than attempting to avoid it. A recruiting and enrolment system for the military must be able to operate expeditiously."

"In Progress Report II of June 2003 the Committee identified the enrolment process as constituting the greatest problem affecting Reserve recruitment. As revealed in consultation after consultation, the Militia has no problem in attracting Canadian citizens to serve their nation on a part-time basis with periods of this service devoted to overseas deployment. The problem of sustaining reserve strength is not one of attracting recruits, many of whom are turned away, but mainly one of enrolment. The Committee concluded that, to a large extent, this problem boiled down to a question of attitude and will â€“ if the will were truly there, the problem could be fixed.

The Committee further determined the major choke point in the enrolment process to be centralized medical screening. A communication from the JAG Branch indicated that in order to ensure every Canadian citizen applying to be a member of the Reserves is â€œtreated equitably across the countryâ€ [18] each medical file has to be finally reviewed and approved centrally. The Committee ventured that this practice, which could hardly be sustained in either emergency or war, could be overcome through decentralized contracting out to civilian doctors or medical centres. The Committee also noted that the Army Commanderâ€™s 19 November 2001 recommendation [19] to streamline the medical evaluation step in the enrolment process had not been accepted. ADM (HR-Mil) refused to sanction conditional enrolment on the grounds that it â€œbrings an unnecessary risk to the Publicâ€ for lack of â€œa reasonable level of screening.â€ [20] The Committee nonetheless feels that this matter should be pursued further. In both of these issues, medical and conditional enrolment, the head of the Army has no authority to institute change on his own."

Read the entire report @

 http://www.frasercom.ca/mmc%20reports/english/FINALRpt2003_E.htm


----------



## iamcanadian3885

Enzo, wow, you‘ve been through it eh...

I‘m beginning to be discouraged in this matter, I actually have time during the day tomorrow to contact CFRC Toronto, and hopefully, the note and test results my doctor provided to me, will be enough.  

If recruits go through what I myself, and enzo to a larger extent, I can see why people are overal discouraged from joining the reserves

none the less, the Canadian Forces overall are strong and proud, and something worth working towards to get into whatever the cost in time..  

I‘ll keep at it


----------



## Enzo

I have to remind myself that the glass is half full. Since I left the army I‘ve travelled to Europe, worked on cruise ships (woman and drinks) returned to the Caribbean to work as a diver in the Caymans (woman and cold drinks), worked in Yellowknife (woman and warmer drinks) and I managed to get into NCTI for IFR controller training - 6 weeks later, my penchant for woman and drinks caught up with me; turns out I‘m not suited to sitting in a dark room staring at a radar screen. Went back to school, got the high school diploma I had been lacking for far too long and now I‘m in college getting the credits I require so that if I ever do get back into the CF then I can apply for an officer position. Would I have done all of that while I was in the CF? Who can say. Memories and experiences in life contribute to the whole journey.

I lose sight of that in my frustration while challenging the system. I need to remind myself from time to time. Suppose that‘s where this forum comes in, it‘s a healthy outlet. Having said that, there‘s hope on the horizon in many different areas.

With a shift in administration (sort of) there will hopefully be changes coming. Pressure will increase, the facts are that the CF is hemorrhaging badly and the leadership to rectify this situation is critical. With this, hopefully there will be a review of current policies and a reduction in the bureaucratic nightmare that has become this system.

I‘ve rambled enough, hang in there, cheers...


----------



## pte anthony

They look up your med files from your family doc if you have injuries recorded in your family doc med files just say your family doc is another doctor that you have coincidentally visited on one or more occasions but for minor problems such as flu etc. It worked for me believe me those CF docs dont even look twice unless of course you tell them otherwise.


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## Brian McMillan

This certainly comes as no surprise:

          http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/2003/12/03/forces031203 

   It makes me wonder why I should bother at all; it‘s going to get much worse before it gets any better.  I‘ve recently sent an application off to ** ***** and despite the fact that working for them makes so much more sense than working for the CF, the CF has an undeniable appeal, doesn‘t it?


----------



## iamcanadian3885

Rosa, I just read that news...

Scary to think it‘ll happen...

We need a gov‘t in power to resolve this and bring the Canadian forces back to a respectable level...


----------



## jonsey

Yeah, I say we go down to Parliament and kick some ***  till y‘all (and me, when I get in) get more money.       

Or we could do it the "correct" way and write our MP‘s, get petitions, all taht other sort of stuff.


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## Cpl. Williamson

You can Enlist but its a Hinderence to you

I guess it all Depends on the individual and the Severity of the Asthma


----------



## winchable

Don‘t tell her she can‘t do it, maybe she can, who knows?
Let her go and give it a shot, no harm done to you.

With some people, the only way they learn is by screwing up/failing.


----------



## D-n-A

on ASC lots of people call themselves snipers cause they can shoot a BB gun

dont take what they say as fact

also, how does the Canadian Army having less soldiers than the US Army have a factor in this?


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## mic911

It depends on how bad the asthma is.  I have mild asthma so it‘s not bad enough to affect my medical category.  If she‘s fat and out of shape she should start getting into shape now before she fails her fitness test.


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## T.inlin

Good day all;

I stumbled across these forums while doing some research for class; and reading some of the threads here made me recall the somewhat dour outcome of my Canadian Reserves application.  To make a long story short, I received a letter from a doctor of the Department of National Defense stating that 

"while deployed it may be impossible for a member to maintain access to prescription medication. Consequently members who need presription medication warrant employment limitations. Such limitations are not acceptable for recruits"

This is in reference to my "exercise induced asthma", which is what I called it for the doctor administering the medical test at the recruiting centre.  This was somewhat of a hyperbole on my part.  I haven‘t had an asthma attack in at least 10 years, and my asthma usually manifests as a little shortness of breath sometimes after exercise.  A toot on the inhalers clears it up almost instantly.  

Anyhow, I‘ve been to by friends of my brother that asthma isn‘t really a limiting factor in joining the reserves, and that I should re-open my application; which leads me to my two questions (enough background hehe) Does having asthma really close the door to the army? and will I have to start the application process over again if I wanted to re-apply?

before I forget, my 3 jobs of choice were: 1. RMS clerk, 2. Logistics tech, 3. Infantry


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## combat_medic

Here‘s my best advice to you if you‘re considering re-applying. Go to your doctor and have him test you for asthma. If it is as mild as you make it out to be, the doctor can run certain tests to find out your lung capacity, the effect of exercise on them etc.. Take a copy of these test results with you when you go for the medical. If you doctor has said that it‘s quite mild, and won‘t create a problem, then you shouldn‘t be too hard off. You might not get into the infantry, but you should still be eligible for your first 2 choices.


----------



## BDTyre

T.inlin, I was in the exact same situation as you.  I told the med staff at recruiting that I had asthma, because I thought I did.  I got the exact same letter, and was told by the med staff pretty much what combat_medic has told you.

I went and did two tests (pulmonary function and methacholine) and both the tech administering the tests and my doctor have told me I don‘t have asthma (at all) and I no longer need my inhalers.

Get your doctor to put you in for tests, bring the results into the recruiting centre and ask they re-open your file.  Personally, I‘m getting my doctor to write a letter -all I need to wait for is some information from the recruiting centre regarding to whom the letter should be addressed.

You may not make infantry, but that‘s apparently not your first choice.

PS - combat_medic, inf. was my first choice; the Seaforths to be exact.


----------



## BDTyre

From what the recruiting centre told me, just have your doctor adress his letter to whomever sent you your letter from Borden.  The recruiting centre will pass it on to Borden

I have just heard from the recruiting centre; before my file can be sent off again I need to do an update interview and fitness test.  At least, I assume that's what I do before my file is sent off again.  You may want to contact your recruiting centre and see what they need for you to re-open your filed because it has been over three months since I first did my asthma tests, and it is been nearly two months since I dropped off the information from my doctor.  Today is the first time there has been any indication of progress.


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## Pte.R-Usman_Syed

My friend apparantley was rejected because of Asthma, he doesnt even have like the real asthma he has it allergically like in the most minor possible way, is it possible for him to have hiself re-evaluated by real doctors then sent back to borden again for checking, because i think the medical officer's pnly know you by the forms you hand in and not you history.


----------



## Pte.R-Usman_Syed

Any Reserve Infantey Soldier's have asthma, were you ever rejected because of you asthma to join the reserves, by this  i mean sent a letter or staight out said that you are medically unfit. If so how did you overcome this and make it into the Infantry.





[   :  EDIT to correct spelling of "Infantry". ]


----------



## Jeff Boomhouwer

I was issued the MARK1A1 lung brush. Worked like a charm. That mean I won't see you next fall?. Come to think of it I still don't know who the hell you are? TOR SCOT right?


----------



## munkzor

What is a MARK1A1 lung brush?


----------



## Da_man

munkzor said:
			
		

> What is a MARK1A1 lung brush?




a lung brush


----------



## Danjanou

munkzor said:
			
		

> What is a MARK1A1 lung brush?



Ask the CQMS to issue you one. He keeps them on the shelf above the CADPAT paint and the BFAs for the M-72s


----------



## b.scheller

i have a problem with asthma. i'm pretty fit, but whenever i play sports with my buddies (usually once or twice in a week) after 10 minutes, (hockey or soccer).  i'm tired and my chest aches. Would I be able to go into the armed forces, with this problem??


----------



## BDTyre

Your best bet is to go see your doctor and get tests done.  You will likely need a pulmonary function test, a methacholine inhalation challenge, and possibly an exercise induced asthma test.

Bring the results of these tests with you when you do your medical.  This will save you time in the long run, and possibly a lot of frustration.  I was informed in early Janauary that I was rejected due to asthma, and it was halfway through April before I was able to hand my test results to the recruiting centre.

If you do these tests before your medical, you'll save some time in the long run.  Re-opening your file is a lengthy process.


----------



## BDTyre

It seems as if I still fall under the old rules...I go in for an update interview and my PT test before they send my file off for Borden; I do the PT test and interview on the 30th, so I'm expecting end of July or half-way through August before I hear anything.


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## Tuff_Little_Girl

This is to the person who has problems getting into the forces because of asthma, you are in a time now where it is hard and you probably want to give up, DONT I use to have asthma when i was younger and it afected me till i was 15 years old  i had to go through a methacoline challenge test and a pulimary function test those test where then sent to the recruiting office they gave it a second look and i was in, it takes awhile but if you are up for the wait then dont give up something that you really want to do.

tuff_Little_Girl


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## Jarnhamar

Tuff_Little_Girl not to go toff topic here and don't mind me asking but your 20 years old AND an Infantry Master Corporal in 1RCR? (Previously a navel cadet officer, don't you need to be 18 or 19 years old to be a cadet officer?)

I was always under the assumption that it takes more than one to three years to get promoted to MCPL in the regs?


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## AlphaCharlie

Tuff_little_girl, lets to a little math.

Do be an Officer Cadet, you need to be in university. Let's say, optimistically, 18 years old.

You need to get a transfer from the Navy to the Army, let's say for the sake of this discussion, that takes 1 year.

That makes you 19.

You're telling us that in ONE YEAR you made MCPL in the 1RCR?


I smell bullshit.


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## Danjanou

Yup that math looks right to me also. 

Of course I'm in the real grown up world, not nintendosniperJTFseal land.


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## Jarnhamar

I'm not going to to pass judgement on someone until they have a chance to defend themselves on what they've said . That being said  I never   expected an Infantry NCO who is a female   would  refer to herself as little girl around her peers.


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## Infanteer

Ohh busted.

Tuff little girl, you better explain your profile quick, or else you qualify as a poser and I am going to blast you off to loserland.


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## NavyGrunt

>

Here come the bullshit detectives of Army.ca.....run little girl run....... :mg:                = :rocket:


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## Eowyn

AlphaCharlie said:
			
		

> Tuff_little_girl, lets to a little math.
> 
> Do be an Officer Cadet, you need to be in university. Let's say, optimistically, 18 years old.



While I agree with the fact that the math doesn't add, to be an OCdt as CIC, you don't need to be in university.


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## fleeingjam

ok this is an asthma conversation not lets point fingers and laugh, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves one mistake and everyone goes replying as if all they have to do all day is single these people look at the fkin calculators and do math, GROW THE HELL UP. Any ways yes I have Reactive Airway Disease (Asthma). On the letter it said "Your case could be considered once you have been free of ashtma prescription for 12 consectutive months and healed from you orthaganic surgery. Has anyone got in after the 12 months and stuff and how?


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## Jarnhamar

This is a military web site.   Lots of people come here asking questions, most are directed at soldiers. IF someone answers those questions under the guise of a soldier and they are NOT a soldier or not as qualified as they say - the  person asking the question (YOU for example) could get very wrong information which may or may not lead to you hurting yourself or wasting your time which may lead you to failing to join the army. We need all the people we can get. Screwing up someones joining process is a sure way to counter that.  

You asked a question and it was answered. Feel free to try and get more information.  Some of us are a little curious about the credentials of a soldier who answered your question  so we are inquiring about it.

It was asked if any "soldier" has asthma. If you don't care who answers then say "Can anyone take a guess if infantry soldiers have asthma"


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## BDTyre

I am in the process of joining the infantry...I have been officially free of any medication for my asthma since March of this year (i.e., my doctor has told me not to bother with any medication) and unofficially free of medication since about January (i.e. I stopped taking my medication to see what would happen).

I am in the process of disputing a claim by Borden that I have exercise induced asthma...I run around 5 km three times a week without any ill affect.  I volunteer at a job that involves various activites in various conditions, many of which would pose problems for those exhibiting asthmatic symptoms.

My point is this: if you can perform cardio exercise and various physical activity without needing medication or showing signs of asthmatic reactionh, fight any claim made about your asthma.  I image it will be several weeks before I hear back from Borden, but I rest assured that between me and my doctor I no longer have asthma and probably haven't for some time.

(As a side note, the physician I contacted at Borden asked me first and foremost "Are you currently on any medication?"  I answred yes at the time as my physician had not approved my prior discontiuation of medication, and the result was a speech about how I needed to prove how I was no longer medicated.  No minimum was given for how long I needed to be treatment free - in any case, fight until the bitter end.  I know I will.  And most people here say soldiering is 90% mental, 10% physical.)


----------



## fleeingjam

First of all thank for the advice 031 Hopeful.

Second of all since you pushed me to this ghost

© *1993-2004 Army.ca. All Rights Reserved. Unofficial site, not associated with DND.* 
Army.ca Forums | Powered by SMF 1.0 Beta 5 Public.
© 2001-2004, Lewis Media. All Rights Reserved. 

I to will have no life and join these people.


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## Jarnhamar

> I to will have no life and join these people.



Well i have no idea what the hell you mean by this so I can't answer.

As for "pushing" you ?
What?
Yes it's not a DND site. I don't think that has to do with anything. It's still a military website moderated by soldiers. 
If you want someone who is a civilian answering questions for you about the army then good for you, just don't expect to get in the army in time soon.


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## BDTyre

Ghost, if you're referring to me, I wasn't asnwering his question really as opposed to explaining my own situation and offering some advice.

But, it should be pointed out that am not yet military and while I can offer advice, I can't offer answers.

Usman_Syed, as Ghost pointed I am a civilian, and so far what I have done has worked for me.  Your situation may be different; all I can say is that this is one course you may want to try.


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## Jarnhamar

Sorry BDTyre i wasn't refering to you at all.  I was refering to a post made by someone who's profile had a few things it it that didn't add up.

 Usman_Syed seemed upset that a few of us were questioning this girl and i was attempting to explain that we're just trying to make sure when a soldier answers a question, they are actually a soldier. No big deal at all if you answer - your not telling people your a soldier.

I think Usman_Syed is an alien from pluto.


----------



## BDTyre

My mistake, I misinterpreted your post.


----------



## fleeingjam

Maybe i am a alien from pluto. I was a bit grumpy with all the stupid letters from borden med staff, anyhow have you guys everseen some one suceed with having an asthma case and making it into the INF.


----------



## BDTyre

I have just done my fitness test and an update interview.  I was told to expect a call within a month if all is well.  My medical was apparently sent off at the end of May; I'll let you know if I get in or not.


----------



## Donut

Yes Usman Sayed, I have seen Infantry with asthma.   I've also seen Engineers, truckers, gunners, crewmen, sailors etc with asthma.

Most of the time I see them through the fog of the ventolin nebulizer as they try to tell me, between gasps of air, how long it's been since they last had an asthma attack, and while I try to figure out if I've got enough oxygen and bronchodilators on board to get them to the local ED.

Almost all of them told CFRC they didn't have any problems and fought like the dickens to get into the forces, only to become a massive liability to their unit.

For &*(^%(*&^ sake people, it's not the bloody boy scouts.   Soldiers who aren't fit DIE.   :skull:


DF

RQL6A Med Tech, PCP, P1


----------



## Michael Dorosh

ParaMedTech said:
			
		

> Yes Usman Sayed, I have seen Infantry with asthma.  I've also seen Engineers, truckers, gunners, crewmen, sailors etc with asthma.
> 
> Most of the time I see them through the fog of the ventolin nebulizer as they try to tell me, between gasps of air, how long it's been since they last had an asthma attack, and while I try to figure out if I've got enough oxygen and bronchodilators on board to get them to the local ED.
> 
> RQL6A Med Tech, PCP, P1



I am sure you have treated soldiers with massive head colds or flu symptoms who have said the same thing about their last cold.

To Usman - there are many success stories of athletes, and soldiers, with asthma.  Check out the book BLACKHAWK DOWN for one - there is even a scene in the movie of the same name that hints at it.


----------



## fleeingjam

Have any infantry got medical rejection from borden for asthma and made it in after the so called " One year free of asthma precriptions...and a detailed report from doctor through out the 12 months?

I was applyin for the reserves and this is what i got..I would just like to know if anyone have ever done the year and made it in to the Infantry

I know there was a similar post prior to this but no one really awnsered. Ive already got an appoinment with a chest specialist and had a lung x-ray done.

Please post.

-Still R031 hopeful


----------



## BDTyre

My medical was sent off to Borden  at the end of May and I should be hearing back from the CF any day now.  My doctor cleared me of asthma, but the letter he wrote to Borden was not exactly the same thing he had told me.

I have high hopes that Borden will reverse there decision, but I have the feeling they won't as I have heard many stories about appeals not working.  However, I am fully prepared to fight them all the way.  My doctor has cleared me of asthma, and I have not even touched my medication in over six months.

I will PM when Borden reaches a decision either way and let you know what's happened and what's worked so far.  Just keep at it.  If tests say you don't have asthma, Borden can choose to ignore that all they want.  At least you'll know you don't have it, and you can always re-apply later.


----------



## Fusaki

Well, I've never had asthma. I don't know what its like and I'm not a doctor. But here's my opnion anyways which is worth about .02.

Spirit counts. If the recruiter tells you to wait 12 months, call back in 6 just to let him know you're still interested and to keep your file open. Whether or not he would ever close your file is irrelivant, the point is that you've told him he should expect your call when the doctor says you're good to go. Then 11 months into your waiting time, try schedule your aptitude test ( or whatever your first appointment would be) for the day after the full year is up. Just look for excuses spread throughout the year to give your recruiter a call so he knows that you're still interested. As soon as you can possibly call your recruiter without looking annoying, do so. And make sure he knows the significance of the fact that your calling at the first opportunity. Don't harass him, be when you call and say your name, he should remember the guy he's talking to. 

You have a better chance with the recruiter if you have a "go-get'em attitdue" and the phone calls to back it up. I know the waiting game sucks, but I've been there too. I'll bet $20 my recruiter would still remember me if I called him today. Just remember that the success rate of those who don't try is *ALWAYS* 0%.


----------



## mclipper

I have seen several posts on this topic and I have one question.  Did it ever occur to you WHY the military has a problem with asthma?  For that matter, why there are medical standards?  There are reasons behind the medical standards that are in place.  Think about it for a minute.  I know that you really want this, but this isn't a job at McDonalds.  If you should have an exercise induced attack and there is no one there to assist you.......either way, you are a liability.  Sorry, but it's a fact.


----------



## hooch

mclipper said:
			
		

> If you should have an exercise induced attack and there is no one there to assist you.......either way, you are a liability.   Sorry, but it's a fact.



There varying degrees of severity of asthma and unless he was a severe case i doubt he`ll drop dead...besides you can have relatively poor vision and join the army, and aren`t broken glasses a liability too?

And to answer the original question posed, yes I too was initially rejected on the basis that I had used an inhaler while playing hockey many years ago...however, a letter from my doctor to the folks in Borden cleared the matter up...PM me if you want the gruesome details


----------



## fleeingjam

To the guy that wrote, exercise inducive, I have a minor case of reactive airway disease, I can run all i want and nothing happens to me, thats what the god damn med staff cease to realize.


----------



## mclipper

Regarding your asthma, I didn't say that you wouldn't get in, I was trying to explain (maybe not all that well) why the medical staff want so much info about your situation.  As for the eye sight comment.....you do know that there are vision standards as well right?  That is why the max you can be is a V3 for inf for example.  That way if your glasses DO get broken you can still function!  You aren't left sitting there blindly fumbling around.


----------



## JBP

Here's the low down on what they will require from people who have had asthma or do have it etc... Not only would you have to be clear of relying on medication for 1 year. They will most likely want you to do a Methacolene (didn't spell it right) challenge test which partially induces asthma attacks and detects how well your lungs can work. And also a Pulmonary function test.

1.) Methacolene Challenge Test
2.) Pulmonary Functino Test

Pass those and you'll probably be accepted since those clinically prove you don't have asthma (or not at any noticable/effective rate).

I ain't no doctor but that's what I had to do to get in!

Joe


----------



## fleeingjam

JOE DUDE I LOVE YOU...so you got in?

Any how it gives me hope.

Go Joe Go.


----------



## JBP

Glad I could help. NEVER give up unless you yourself know there is no way inside.

Give'm  :threat:

I have a very simple, not so original saying:
Never Give UP!


----------



## BDTyre

This whole "free of medication" deal is a news to me.  Neither the physician at Borden nor the med staff here in Vancouver mentioned anything about that; in fact they both stated all I needed was to pass a PFT and Methacholine test and get a note from my doctor saying I have asthma.

So if they tell me now, 5 months after having passed these tests and being "officially" off my medication, that I have to wait another seven months they will have to deal with an extremely pissed off person and I will be making a complaint with someone higher up.


----------



## fleeingjam

Well, I was rejected based on asthma, so my letter informed me that once i had completed 12 consecutive months asthma medication and prescription free i may be re-considered. On top of that I also have to have some orthodontic/cosmetic surgery to correct my underbite. So after I heal from the surgery and the 1 year is completed i will re-apply. So I hope BdTyre, you make it in with your current application, because if not you may have to wait a year. They should not reject you considering you have done the Meth test and the PFT.

-Hope you make it.


----------



## combat_medic

The CF isn't concerned if you're taking a mild medication, but they ARE concerned if you are not capable of functioning without it. The infantry are the most likely to be cut off from supply lines in a theatre of war, and have the highest chance of not having ready access to things like perscription medication, or replacement eyeglasses. If you can't function as a front line infantry soldier without regular meds and glasses, then you become a huge liability on the battlefield. They didn't set up these regulations just to punish people, but to ensure that you won't go down with an asthma attack in the middle of a section attack with no meds. They're protecting themselves as well as you.


----------



## BDTyre

I understand the reasoning behind it. It seems that everyone who had asthma must have been medication free for 12 months.  My issue is not that; it is understandable.  My issue is that if this is the case, I have found it out from a third party five months after I have been "officially" off my medication.  I was not told by the physician at Borden nor by the medical officer at CFRC Vancouver that this would be required.  I was told -by both parties- that I need to pass these tests and I needed to provide a letter from my doctor stating I no longer had asthma.  The officer at Borden was particularly unhelpful and didn't seem to want to deal with me.  

Now, I haven't heard back from Borden yet so I may be making a fuss over nothing, but the way the past 14 months have gone, I don't think thins will get much better.  My question five months ago to the officer in Borden was simple: What do I need to do?  I should have been told then exactly what I needed to do.  To tell me that I have to wait another seven months because someone forgot or didn't think about it is not only dissappointing, it really reflects poorly on the individual and on the Canadian Forces.

Of course, this may all be in vain since the last time my doctor actually wrote me a perscription was November and the last time I actually had one filled was some time before that.  

I'm just trying to prepare for the worst....


----------



## fleeingjam

Yeah BDtyre, i wish i was as well informed of the asthma case. But there is always hope, even if they do reject you they dont say YOU ARE NOT MEDICALLY FIT FOR THE CF,......YOU CANNOT ENTER THE CF. Thats why I thank god that they didnt just randomly slam me on like a heart murmer or flat foot. Anyways take em to the bitter end. As for combat_medic, so according to what you said people with a mild asthma can still enter the CF? But what does not make any sense is the fact that they make you wait 6 months to reject you on something that is "standard protocol" for med( Anyguy with asthma that has not been rejected yet, has not done a year without prescriptions, and not completed a meth and a PFT test should have to wait 6 months and then be told all this. Funny they think this way, what I basiclly mean is why didnt they reject me the instant i said i have asthma? and even after my doctor wrote that is asthma is not exercise inducive that they still reject.


----------



## JBP

Well folks, you have to keep everything in perspective. The military is a large organization obviously, and with many different individuals included to move your application along. It's not that the recruiters or officers or NCM's or anyone is trying to be mean or particulary evil toward you. 

But generally speaking if you have asthma, it would be a bad career choice anyway. I knew that when I applied and knew I'd have a hellova time trying to get in. But you just have to stay persistent, positive and keep on top of whoever has your file at that point. But in a polite and professional manner. They deal with applicants one file at a time, one PART of a file at a time! I was originally suppose to start LAST SEPTEMBER. Yes, 2003. But I had to scheduel those tests and get the doctors notes and send it back and forth and wait for calls and mail. I called the CFRC Hamilton almost weekly when my file was in Borden over the last while. The only week I didn't call I was on vacation!

Don't worry, keep the faith, if you want it that bad, you'll get it if your fit enough and healthy enough! Don't loose focus.

Joe


----------



## fleeingjam

Yeah, well i do have to say that was a "frustration flush" on my part . Its just that the CF has become something elusive to me, anyhow running and cardio exercises will help fight asthma wont they?.


----------



## JBP

Yes cardio will help but it takes steady months of workout and dedication. Asthma isn't easy to beat! If yours is still active, I'd advise caution in cardio work as that can induce an asthma attack in chronic cases! If yours is bad enough, maybe talk to your doctor first. You generally should be fine though. I had chronic asthma as a child and still participated in all sports+track and field etc...

Good luck,

Joe


----------



## fleeingjam

What i want to know is that quite simply do you have a chance of enrollment if you have asthma in the reserves. Because my friend went to BMQ this summer and said he saw guys takin puffers and addmitted the had asthma. So mainly the question is how did they enroll without bieng rejected and or what level of asthma does it take for a rejection. Your opinions will be greatly apreaciated.


----------



## Spc_Cameron

while at Basic at MTC Gagetown I was given a "huffer " because I had a lung infection..... maybe your freinds are under the impression they have asthma....a "huffer" only means that they were given a med that works better when directly inhaled.


----------



## Erik

I hope this is not considered a thread-jack.

I was prescribed with asthma a while ago (around 9 maybe 10) and I have not had it cause me any trouble for about a year and a half perhaps two years. Next year when I go to join and take my medical, to say that I do not suffer from athsma do I have to have a form from him saying that I do not suffer from it anymore?


----------



## fleeingjam

First of all those guys did have asthma

Second of all i would get really detailed letters from either your family physician and or a specialist if you have one, letters of recomandation will also sorta put the cap on things, i hope you make it in dude. Ill continue my wait.


----------



## mike62

Hi Usman.........here is a link for your question........

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/med_examination_e.aspx

 or call the recruiting center......that's what they are there for.....they won't give you a hard time...

                                                                                                  Cheers........Mike


----------



## jordan_o

Erik said:
			
		

> I hope this is not considered a thread-jack.
> 
> I was prescribed with asthma a while ago (around 9 maybe 10) and I have not had it cause me any trouble for about a year and a half perhaps two years. Next year when I go to join and take my medical, to say that I do not suffer from athsma do I have to have a form from him saying that I do not suffer from it anymore?



Hi, I had asthma too, but it went away when I was around 11, and I'm now almost 17. The medical guy I talked to said it wouldn't be a problem. I'm sure if it's almost 2 years and you've still got another to wait, it will be 3 years when you go, so I'm sure you'll be okay. But I'd also call the recruiting center, as they would know more than anyone else.


----------



## JasonH

Sounds like me Jordan.  Ever since I began running to get in the process of joining the CF I've had NO systems of my asthma.  Been nearly 8 years since an asthma attack and I havn't used a puffer in 5 years.


----------



## Southby

Hi there. I've been in the application process for quite some time. I've been expecting the call any day, but after 14 weeks of waiting for my medical files,  today I got this very disappointing letter in the mail:

Dear ME,

I have reviewed the medical records accompanying your application to join the CF. The documents indicate you suffer from asthma which can be exercise induced and that you require medication. Accordingly, medical limitations have been assigned. Unfortunately, you do not meet the common enrolment standards required by both regular and reserve forces.....

...blah blah blah....

I trust this information will be of service to you. If you, or your physician, have further questions I can be reached at the number below. Thank you for your interest in the Canadian Forces.

-----
 :crybaby:
Ouch.
Now I have asthma... well, apparently once you've had it you always have it....  but I haven't had an attack in over 10 years. I haven't had to use an inhaler in 10 years. I had an allergic reaction to food once and was told to try the inhaler for a while... but nothing serious.
When I first applied.... way back, I wasn't in the best of shape, so when asked if I had shortness of breath when exercising, I answered YES, but also mentioned I did not need to use an inhaler.
I passed the physical test with no problems back then, and now, 7 months later, I am in much better physical shape... so when I exercise.. even to to point of throwing up, I dint even have a wheeze. I feel my shortness of breathe was just being unfit, not asthma.

What are my options? try convince the doctor that I have mild asthma that doesn't need treatment? I tried getting a referral to a specialist, but the damn clinics here are so cynical, they thing I'm trying to 'get around it.'

I also know for a fact a great number of full time and reserve members who do indeed have asthma. a friend of mine who 'forgot to mention it' just got back from boot camp with out a hitch.

The only lesson I'm learning is not matter how hard one tries or determined they are... if they're honest, they're in trouble!!!   I wont give up this easily, but I feel my options are few and far between. I tried contacting the number on the letter, but its just a voice mail box saying 'please send in the required forms to your recruiter...'  grrm.

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated, as I feel I have a lot to offer the CAF, and its been my life long dream to be in the service, to have it shattered by something that doesn't even effect me seems so defeating. :'(

note: I'm also thinking of taking a POPAT (the police physical aptitude test) and sending in the results proving that I can do 'high standards of physical fitness'


----------



## Southby

I have not suffered asthma in almost 10 years. I dont treat it, and dont own any 'huffers'. I completed the physical, and can run, jump, and fly to the moon if i have to, with out medication. never the less, I went into a clinic for a form I needed once i mentioned i had suffered from it as a kid (apparently, asthma NEVER goes away... hmmm..)  so, this doctor with no medical history asked if i got 'short of breath' after extreme exercise.... being less in shape then as I currently am now, I answered honestly. YES.  BUT it was from being unfit, and NOT asthma.
never the less, after waiting 14 nail bitting weeks, I got a letter today saying I do not meet enrolment standards.

I am going to 'try' fight it, but it seems unlikely anything will change, as I am but 1 small insignificant fish and a very large pond....

Now mind you, I have a friend who just came back, and he too hasnt had asthma in 10 years, so he didnt write it down....
and he said there was this guy taking meds for 'panic attacks' at bmq. COME ON.

anyways. I'm a little bitter, VERY disapointed, but wont give up.... yet.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Did you try the search feature? The following are some of the threads on the Forums that have discussed asthma:

*Asthma*

Clarifying Asthma   --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/19197
Have any infantry got medical rejection from borden for asthma and made it in...     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/17925
Mild Asthma a problem?   --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/12917
Recruit with Asthma   --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/6265
asthma   --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/6115
Recruit with Asthma     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/6113
Asthma in the army     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13549
Asthma? Need advice!     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/19274.0.html
Do they allow asthmatics in the CF?     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/1995
ashtma     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/17046
The wait     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/1567
Medical Question     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/16933
Any Reserve Infantey Soldier's have asthma?     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/16935
What to do while waiting for an appeal?     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13610
Asthma     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13341
How did you handle it.     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13162
Wanting to join..     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13206
another medical topic     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/18298
Told to come back in 2 Years.     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/18981
ETA of files return from Borden?     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13738
health requirements     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/12827
can anyone give me some info?     --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/24

Edit: This list of links has been added to the Recruiting FAQ.


----------



## chriscalow

Just a quick question, how do they "Prove" you have been off your prescription for the last 12 months?  Do I need to get a record from the pharmacy or something?  I would like to know before they tell me so I don't have to wait any longer.  Thanks.


----------



## Southby

I had a letter saying I didn't need medication, prognosis good, no attacks in 10 years, can run 5km with no problems... but still got the rejection letter  :crybaby:... I'd go with BDTyres strategy....
my family doctor in BC recommended going for a methacholine test, but the doctor i went to here in Edmonton says they don't tend to do them that much anymore cuz of the high cost (they need specially trained staff, a crash board in-case you go into anaphylactic shock, etc)  but he has reccomended the pulmonary test... i just hope it doesn't take months to get a date...

GOOD LUCK all you asthma people, or those who believe you have asthma....  
One doctor told me : you have asthma, well you never get rid of it.... dont try to cheat your way into the army!
another said: You can out grow it... you should go for a methacholine challenge test..
and the one giving me the recommendation  said : Oh, well you were probably mis-diagnosed as a  child, go for the pulmonary fitness test....

This makes me think the knowledge on asthma may not be as well known as we might think....  ???


----------



## BDTyre

I got my PFT and my methacholine challenge within two weeks here in Vancouver.

Apparently, misdiagnosis during childhood is common, especially if the child has allergies.  I was diagnosed as having a slight milk allergy which never materialized.

Best thing to do is take the tests.  The technicians and your doctor won't BS you.  The tech that did my methacholine test said that there would be no reason for me to use my inhalers or do an exercise-induced asthma test; my doctor agreed.  (Although my doctor tends to be of the thought that I'm my own best judge of my abilities, and this has led to problems with him filling out the required forms for the CF).


----------



## BLACKBERRY

A friend of mine is a corporal of hoarse in the British household calvary and he has Asama really bad. He has to carry his inhaler around everywhere he goes so there must be a way to join.


----------



## BDTyre

Considering the Brits' rules on asthma, your friend was very lucky to get in.


----------



## B.C Dude

man....i just got rejected from the reserves because of asthma also, i got a letter like a week ago saying the same thing that i had medical limitations, now they're telling me to call the RC for a final decision on my file, I really don't want to give this up since it's a dream of mine, my familys saying just give up and go for anotehr career, but i can't. Please give me some advice what should i do next?


----------



## Michael Dorosh

BDTyre said:
			
		

> Considering the Brits' rules on asthma, your friend was very lucky to get in.



Or else he simply lied about it.

Been known to happen.

Wouldn't recommend it here, of course.  Did I mention it's been known to happen?


----------



## BDTyre

I know a guy who was in the TA for a few years; the Sergeant he was talking to when he applied encouraged him to "forget" that he had asthma.


----------



## fleeingjam

thats really what it comes down to, BD Tyre, all the guys that cheat to enter are the ones that really do have asthma then they put a bad influence on the people applying who had had it in the past but do not no longer. If you truly are CF material you shouldnt be lying. And now watch everyone highlight CF material and quote on me. LOL

-Usman


----------



## chriscalow

Well, I've had one PFT. That was about six months ago, now I'm going back in on Monday to do another one and schedule a metacholine test, I'm also heading down to CFRC Toronto tomorrow to re-open my file and book my other tests,. (P.T., Interview), does anyone know if I will need to do another CFAT?   And how long are the letters of reference good for?   Cheers..


----------



## JBP

Hello folks,

Good news to you, if any of you have been watching/reading this thread, as I said before there is hope!

I was told today I am "merit listed" and I now just have to wait for my offer of employment call and the date of my enrollment/swear-in. Ta-da! It did take ALOT of time and effort, but the end result (for me) was worth it all.

Joe


Keep the faith! - Bon Jovi (Yes, he rocked back in the day, don't say you didn't listen to him in the 90's!)


----------



## chriscalow

Big HUGE congrats man.. good timing too.


----------



## fleeingjam

OMG Joe thats the best news ive heard in a while, Good luck man, btw you still havent awnsered my PM


----------



## BDTyre

Just a note for anyone who has been rejected for exercise induced asthma.

You will likely need to see a respirologist.  My medical came back and I was told that the PFT and methacholine test do not rule out EIA, and I now need to see a respirologist for a current diagnosis and an EIA test.  Borden also requires details on any limitations to my physical activity and a detail about what -if any- sort of follow up is needed.

So you may want to talk to your doctor and do this before.  It certainly would have saved me time if I had known seven months ago that I needed to do this.


----------



## fleeingjam

BD_Tyre I was rejected for reactive airway disease, now you may think isnt all asthma that way, but lo and behold today i got a copy of the letter that was to be filled out by my physician before my application migrated to borden. In that letter the MED OFFICER doing my test asked if possible a PFT be done before i handed that letter in (back then i did not know what the hell a PFT was). Also he said my asthma in now way has any affect on exercise. Now before I continue the other thing i have to state is that Borden Med Staff ONLY know you from that letter, they are not your doctor, so you cant hope they'll asume everything. Now the methacoline test is the perfect test to test the asthma that i had which was reactive airway disease (reacting to dust and polin sorta stuff) which proved negative. So bearing this in mind I pray to god thats all I need. But my point is that they aint your doctor so dont freak out on them if they misinterprate  :rage: they have to go through endless files day in day out, im suprised that they even have the ability to do that. So do everything they say, be honest and hopefully the wind will be in your sail.


----------



## Budgie

I got a rejection letter today. Ashtma triggered by physical fitness. I think those @$$es missed the part where it said MILD asthma. IS there anything else I can do or say to get in? 
I'd appreciate any advice.


----------



## McG

Have you looked here:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103980.html#msg103980


----------



## Budgie

No, that doesn't help. And I wasn't asking for links about asthma. But thanks anyway.


----------



## Inch

I got rejected for pilot when I first applied, there was a problem with my EEG and the letter stated that if I wanted my application to continue, I had to go see a neurologist for his diagnosis. He said I was good to go and my application got back on track. I don't know if your letter said the same thing, but if you want to persue it, I'd suggest going to see a lung specialist. You'll probably have to pay for it yourself, I know I did. Hope that helps, good luck.

Cheers


----------



## chriscalow

Inch hit the nail on the head, get to a specialist and have them run a "Pulmonary Function Test" and the Methacholine Challenge test.  It won't hurt to get tested for exercise induced asthma as well, just so they can see on paper, what your situation really is.  It is what I did and my second application seems to be going much better than the last.  Good luck.


----------



## AndrewD83

Inch said:
			
		

> *I got rejected for pilot when I first applied, there was a problem with my EEG* and the letter stated that if I wanted my application to continue, I had to go see a neurologist for his diagnosis. He said I was good to go and my application got back on track. I don't know if your letter said the same thing, but if you want to persue it, I'd suggest going to see a lung specialist. You'll probably have to pay for it yourself, I know I did. Hope that helps, good luck.
> 
> Potential pilots have to get EEGs done on them to get hired by the CF?
> 
> Wow that is some strict recruiting standards.  On the other hand I am sure they just don't want some average joe flying the countries multi milllion dollar toys.


----------



## cgyflames01

Potential pilots have to get EEGs done on them to get hired by the CF?   

Wow that is some strict recruiting standards.  On the other hand I am sure they just don't want some average joe flying the countries multi milllion dollar toys
It there flying fighter's they need very healthy heart's/ and high blood preesure, to keep blood flow in there heads, to combat the G-force.


----------



## Inch

You don't have to have high blood pressure, you just need to concentrate more on anaerobic exercise (weights) vice aerobic. It's the muscles that push the blood into your head while you're straining, not your heart.

Pilot is one of the most strictly controlled trades in terms of medical requirements. Only astronaut medical standards are stricter. You'll have an EEG, ECG, heart ultrasound, lung capacity test, anatomic measurements (leg length, reach, etc), chest/spine x-ray, plus you have to have perfect hearing and 20/20 uncorrected vision. They also take pictures of your cornea for some reason. 

The EEG is mostly testing for epilepsy and to see what happens when you're hyperventilating and when you get strobed.


----------



## Bograt

Inch said:
			
		

> They also take pictures of your cornea for some reason.



The cornea pictures are used for before/after comparisons. In the event there is an accident or disease they can measure the extent of the loss/deterioration and subsequently compensate you accordingly. Also the retina and cornea shots can show the presence of eye disease and laser surgery. So, you can not lie and say you didn't have it done.

They also measure the size and circumference of your wrist. Pilots must be able to wear extremely large watches with lots of dials and buttons. The most disturbing test was the anal probe. They don't even warm the instrument first. What I haven't I done to get a pilot slot?


----------



## fleeingjam

Do the following tests (these will have to be done by a resipiroligist which you will need refferal from your physician)

-PFT (Pulmonary Functions Test)
Calculates Lung Capacity
-Methacoline
Triggers asthma and reports if either you have asthma or you dont and if you do how mild or severe it is.
-EST
You are put through some heavy PT and they check for asthma (this is if you were diagnosed with execersise inducive or post exercise asthma)

Other than that join the club you got at least a year before you see any green.


----------



## Budgie

Can you reapply? And how long do you have to wait before doing it? I plan to talk to my doctor about this and see what can be done. But I'll give myself a few days. I'm pretty crushed right now.  :crybaby:


----------



## Budgie

*bump* :'( :crybaby:


----------



## spenco

Budgie said:
			
		

> Can you reapply? And how long do you have to wait before doing it? I plan to talk to my doctor about this and see what can be done. But I'll give myself a few days. I'm pretty crushed right now.  :crybaby:



Unless they say that you cant apply for x amount of months/years in the letter you got then you can re-apply when you get the letter from your respective specialist who says you are good to go or whatever.  You will have to start from scratch and submit an entirely new application form.


----------



## Budgie

Thank you. That's what I wanted to know.


----------



## wern32

If its not a problem and if they dont ask, then dont tell them


----------



## Art Johnson

I am probably in the wrong forum to tell this story but in order to inject a little humour I'll tell it anyway. Take note this happened 50 years ago. 
When I returned from Korea I had been seriously wounded   but the C.O. of my Reserve Unit wanted me to come back and serve in the Recruiting Office. I said I would and turned up at No. 6 Manning Depot for my medical exam. No crap there I was balls naked in the examining room when the doctor came in he took one look and said "your kidding" and I said "no". "The doctor said "I am not even going to look a you obviously some one wants you in the Army"
For those of you who don't know me I have an above knee amputation of the right leg plus an arthoplasy in the right elbow with ulnar and radial nerve damage. At the time I was in reciept of a 100% disability pension from DVA. The Officer that I was paired with was a WWII arm amputee. We made a great team.


----------



## BDTyre

Back in March, I completed a PFT and methacholine challenge.  I got a negative result on the methacholine challenge, which is a good thing.  Borden sent me a letter explaining this can't rule out exercise induced asthma and they are insisting that I see a respirologist and take an exercise induced asthma test.  I've seen the respirologist, and here is where it gets interesting.  He has booked me in for an exercise test, but told me they are almost never done anymore because a *negative result on a methacholine challenge indicates an absence of exercise induced asthma*.  He told me he would still book me in for an exercise test because that is what Borden wants.

However, I've just had an established, certified respirologist tell me that I should not have to do this test, and that the medical community itself generally does not run these tests any more.  Makes me wonder what sort of medical staff they have in Borden.

I'm not worried about doing the test, but it is another two months before it will be all done and over with, and if the medical community feels I shouldn't need it (the respirologist, by the way, is the third medical professional to tell me I don't need an exercise test), I really feel like it's two months I'm losing, two months more I have to wait to get it when I've already waitied a year and a half.

Anyone offer some helpful advice?


----------



## Meridian

I'd do the test if only to be absolutely certain myself that I was fit to go.
Never hurts to get one more test done, and the Forces (should) still be around in 2 months.

Last thing you want is to be half-trained and sitting around not being able to go due to asthma.... and thats the last thing the forces wants as well....

Actually, last thing you probably want is to experience problems on tour somewhere....


----------



## BDTyre

I will do the test, because that is what is required.   And Tracker, this is not a question of ethics.   This is a question of why the CF medical is apparently out of touch with the greater medical community.   Having talked to a few law enforcement organizations, all of which do conduct their own medical review, it seems that I would not encounter something like this.

And this isn't an issue of two months more.   Two months would be nice.   By the time I have my follow-up with the respirologist, it will have been six months since I received my letter Borden.   Ultimately, by the time all is said and done, it will likely be 9 -12 months since I received my letter from Borden, and at least 2 years since my date of application.   And to be honest, much of the year and a half it has now taken has been spent waiting on the CF.

I know the government works slowly, but somethings are just unbelievable.  I will just keep waiting it out and doing what they ask because I am comitted to getting in.


----------



## Tracker

Perhaps the greater medical community and law enforcement organizations don't put their members in the same kinds of situations that the CF does.


----------



## fleeingjam

Tracker said:
			
		

> Perhaps the greater medical community and law enforcement organizations don't put their members in the same kinds of situations that the CF does.



Tracker, he is not trying to be objective, if you were put in the same situation he was you would do the same..so please try to understand the situation. BD-Tyre you gotta consider the fact that Borden medstaff are not respirologists or cardiologists (sorry for spelling), they do not specialize in every medical section, they have a general education if maybe some specialization. The way they will take the Asthma jargon and take it to the worst case scenario. They want you do those tests not be pains but so they can ensure, you do not have asthma. Now whether this means doing a tests that our no longer used , its up to you. But if you wanna oppose there judgement you may suceed or have to suffer another year of time spent out of the forces. The situation has become a 50/50, but honestly you got nothing to lose so I would do the test anyways, that way you leave them no *excuse* to think of asthma as a factor.

-Good Luck, I know youll make it
-Usman Syed


----------



## Armymedic

BDTyre said:
			
		

> Back in March, I completed a PFT and methacholine challenge. I got a negative result on the methacholine challenge, which is a good thing. Borden sent me a letter explaining this can't rule out exercise induced asthma and they are insisting that I see a respirologist and take an exercise induced asthma test. I've seen the respirologist, and here is where it gets interesting. He has booked me in for an exercise test, but told me they are almost never done anymore because a *negative result on a methacholine challenge indicates an absence of exercise induced asthma*. He told me he would still book me in for an exercise test because that is what Borden wants.
> 
> However, I've just had an established, certified respirologist tell me that I should not have to do this test, and that the medical community itself generally does not run these tests any more. Makes me wonder what sort of medical staff they have in Borden.
> 
> I'm not worried about doing the test, but it is another two months before it will be all done and over with, and if the medical community feels I shouldn't need it (the respirologist, by the way, is the third medical professional to tell me I don't need an exercise test), I really feel like it's two months I'm losing, two months more I have to wait to get it when I've already waitied a year and a half.
> 
> Anyone offer some helpful advice?



Yeah, go find another line of work...

Other then hearing what you wanted to hear, from a single specialist who may or may not have any idea why you need to do the test, what gives you the right to question the decisions of a panel of experienced current and ex military doctors and medical specialists who have to look at a file and determine whether or not you are going to spend more time at the medical facility then at work?



			
				BDTyre said:
			
		

> I will do the test, because that is what is required.   And Tracker, this is not a question of ethics.   This is a question of why the CF medical is apparently out of touch with the greater medical community.   Having talked to a few law enforcement organizations, all of which do conduct their own medical review, it seems that I would not encounter something like this.



Maybe because the CF is the only employer who as a basic requirement has you doing strenuous work while wearing CHEMOX or dressed in MOPP 4 for more then 8 hrs. What do you call an asthmatic in that situation?

a Bluey in green, and Ventolin doesn't go thru a C7 canister

They are not "out of touch".


----------



## Tracker

Usman

In the same situation (different med condition) I jumped through every hoop the CF wanted me to to get through my medical so don't bother with the "you would do the same" BS.  May be it was because I was from a different generation, a generation that wasn't quite so "Me" orientated.  

BD Tyre

My point is, if they want you to do something, do it, don't question the necessity of it and don't let someone from outside the CF influence you about it.


----------



## aesop081

I have waited for 11 years to be able to remuster to my current MOC so you having to wait 2 moths extra to join up isnt gonna kill you.  The military wants the test done, you want to get in...........sounds rather simple to me.  As has been mentioned, thos experts you have seen are not in the military so the dont have a clue as to what your employement in the CF will be.

Stop siging "mememe"...you wanted helpfull advice, here it is: shut up and do what you were told to do, period !

That bit of advice will help you troughout your military career.


----------



## Armymedic

Now I had a chance to sleep on it, and your post still drives me...

Heres my trade specs if you don't believe me.


A-MD-154-000/FP-000
APPENDIX 2, ANNEX D
TASK STATEMENT
MED TECH - 737
GENERAL DUTIES: The functions of these Med Techs are to support the C.F. Health Care system by providing care for ill and injured patients, in static units as
well as during deployments in the field, at sea, and air ops.


1. Locate and retrieve casualties in hazardous situations. 
2. Assist lifting patients (90 kg). 
3. Carry one end of stretcher with a patient (90 kg) up to distances of 50 m, up and down
stairs, around corners, and load/unload on ambulances and aircraft.
4.Carry boxes of supply weighing 30 kg for one hour. 
5. Use/cope with hazardous material such as pesticides, diesel, gasoline and AVGAS
fumes, and biological waste.
6. Cope with the stress related to caring for patient with little/no medical supervision and
under survival situations.
7. Walk 5 km per day on uneven ground. 
8. Work wearing NBCW equipment for 12 hours.  
9. Stand for 4-6 hrs continuously and/or walk for periods up to 12 hrs per day. 
10. Climb, stoop, bend, crawl or work in confined spaces. 
11. Drive service vehicles under low/no light conditions.
12. Handle heavy ship-borne fire fighting equipment while wearing CHEMOX masks. 
13. Work 12 hour shifts with occasional periods of 16 hours work. 


Not to mention, IF they let you in, the CF has to take care of you medically, potentially until you retire at 60 yrs old.  Do you think they take thier job seriously.

Take the test and sum up.


----------



## BDTyre

Well now that everyone's decided to berate and attempt to belittle me, I believe I have already stated I would do the test.   Please stop attempting to make an issue of a non-issue.   The medical staff at Borden have wasted both my time and their time.   Had they ordered this test nine months ago, when this issue first came up, I would not be complaining.   However, for me to do the tests *I was required to do* and then suddenly to be told, by the same people that those tests were not good enough...why didn't they tell me to do an exercise test in the first place?   I had even asked the medical staff at Borden if I needed any tests in addition to the methacholine and the PFT and I was told -not by the CFRC Vancouver, but by Borden themselves- that it was between me and my doctor.   To keep me waiting for nearly five months only to tell me that what they asked of me is not good enough is quite ridiculous.

Armymedic - you are the only person I have come across to refer to the med staff at Borden as a "panel" or specialists.   Everyone else has indicated it is one, or at best two, persons reviewing a file.

And I've never doubted employment in the CF will be hard.   But don't judge me until you know me.   I'm not saying I could do your job, but I do things that, if you really do believe I am an asthmatic, I shouldn't be able to do.   And I do them without an inhaler.

And for those who keep insisting I do what I'm told to without a single question, well I have a little story about that, but I'll leave it for PM if anyone even cares to hear it.

I asked for helpful advice.   I did not ask to be lectured, and I especially did not ask for anyone to attempt to belittle me or attempt to diminish my abilities in any way.   If you feel like insulting me any more, please PM me and we will deal with this on a one-on-one basis.   If I may do so, I request a moderator lock this thread as I can see it spiralling out of control.


----------



## Donut

Seems to me you got at least five posts full of useful advice, and kept on pissing and moaning about it.

If you think this is an unbearable hoop to jump through, I can't wait untill you come through my office for something.  

There are a number of health requirments unique to the CF, from "unusual" blood chemistry tests to "archaic" panographic dental x-rays.  That's because, as Armymedic pointed out, we have unique job requirments, like anti-malaria therapies and a higher then normal likelihood we'll need forensic information on you.

You'd best be able to do his job, at least physically.  The 031 Task Statement is rougher then ours.

Asthmatics have no place in the CF.  None.  

If you want in, prove to the RMO's you don't have it.  Proof beyond a clinical doubt, not one doctors diagnosis.


----------



## Sprate

I have a minor chest disorder. The right side of my ribcage sticks out about 1cm more than my left side. My breathing, muscular strength and flexability are not affected, so it is a purely congenial defect. Will my chances of getting pilot, Infantry or any other trade be affected?


----------



## Scott

Your best bet is to talk to a Recruiter and be examined by one of their Med Staff. Good Luck.


----------



## Lost_Warrior

> Inch hit the nail on the head, get to a specialist and have them run a "Pulmonary Function Test" and the Methacholine Challenge test.  It won't hurt to get tested for exercise induced asthma as well, just so they can see on paper, what your situation really is.  It is what I did and my second application seems to be going much better than the last.  Good luck.



Not quite.  My buddy did all that, and appealed his application, and got yet another rejection letter.  Even though he passed the test with flying colors.

I just told him screw it, wait 6 months and submit another application, and DON'T mention his asthma.  He has nothing to lose.


----------



## kincanucks

_I just told him screw it, wait 6 months and submit another application, and DON'T mention his asthma.  He has nothing to lose._

Good advice and when they pull his previous med file he can claim what? Stupidity? Amnesia?


----------



## Gayson

Was rejected at first because I had a ritalin prescription from the years earlier in my childhood.

So I retook the ADD test without taking any ritalin.  Passed it, got the doctor to right up a report about me on the tests.  I had this sent up to the medical officer who rejected me and within a few months I got a letter from him authorizing me to continue the process!

Sometimes a medical issue can side track you, but it is really worth it to do what you can to get passed it.  I'm glad I did, I love the army!


----------



## SlipStream

Well i have a bit of asthma, i've had it for many years but never has been severe. My asthma usually only happens when i'm doing alot of activity like extensive running, will i still beable to apply for the infantry reserves?


----------



## 48Highlander

The rules on that seem to be really....inconsistant.  When I applied, the fact that I have asthma never even slowed my application proccess.  I simply told them I had "very mild" asthma, the doctor checked a box, and 2 months later I was wearing a uniform.  On the other hand I have a friend who has an even milder case of asthma, and his application was first delayed for a year, and then denied entirely.  I don't know exactly what the rules on it are, but unfortiunately the interpretation of them seems to differ depending on who's handling your application.  I made it into the infantry and haven't had any problems since.  Some people haven't been so lucky.


----------



## Love793

The hold up is in Borden, your med file is probably at RMO for review.  Be patient.


----------



## BDTyre

Wait times for Borden vary considerably.  My first medical took two months.  When I went to appeal it in the summer, I was told it had been submitted at the end of May, I should expect an answer at the end of July.  It was nearly the end of October before I got a response.  Although if your medical was submitted around the same time as mine and you still haven't heard back, you may want to call your recruiter.  A friend of mine was all set to enroll in the reserves as an officer and then they went and lost ALL his paperwork, pretty much forcing him to start from nothing.


----------



## shaboing

from what i have been told they have 2 doctors looking over all the files for CF applicants (for a lack of better word, haha) which is why there usually is a wait for medical acception/rejection. and believe me you want them to accept you the first time. my medical papers had an error, somehow my mild shellfish allergy was misunderstood as a general seafood allergy so i was rejected, then i had to get documents from the doc's office and write a memo and play the waiting game all over again, haha. not fun. but it works out in the end so "hurry up and wait".... and wait.... wand wait, haha, good luck with it soldier in waiting


----------



## Love793

ShaBoing said:
			
		

> from what i have been told they have 2 doctors looking over all the files for CF applicants (for a lack of better word, haha) which is why there usually is a wait for medical acception/rejection. and believe me you want them to accept you the first time. my medical papers had an error, somehow my mild shellfish allergy was misunderstood as a general seafood allergy so i was rejected, then i had to get documents from the doc's office and write a memo and play the waiting game all over again, haha. not fun. but it works out in the end so "hurry up and wait".... and wait.... wand wait, haha, good luck with it soldier in waiting



You hit it right on the nose.  2 Phys Assistants, processing upwards of 10000 med files.  As for the next question (and obvious solution) "Why don't hire more people to process these files?"  Hey I just work here.


----------



## Meridian

2 PAs.. so its not even an MD who is signing off on this? Wow. 

Out of curiosity. what kind of medical training is required to be a PA? (Just curious).


----------



## Love793

I'm not even sure what a PA actually does, are they Nurses? Are they Interns?   They are working for a Maj though so there is a MO somewhere around them.


----------



## JBP

Update on everything, also so those of you STILL waiting know that it can be done for sure...


I was sworn in on January 6th 2005. The original swear-in date was suppose to be Dec 9 2004 but they reschedueled because not enough new people.

Good luck to you all!


----------



## chriscalow

Arrgh!  Well, what Joe said is true, I finally got past them re: asthma, but now they want me to get an allergy test, they said something about walnuts... I've never been allergic to walnuts, maybe they screwed up?  Either way, I booked the allergy test so hopefully soon enough I can get this show on the road!! Good luck to anyone else waiting, and NEVER quit!!.  :warstory:


----------



## fleeingjam

Wow thats kinda random isnt it?, during you medical test did you state you had any allergies?


----------



## chriscalow

No.


----------



## JBP

> Arrgh!  Well, what Joe said is true, I finally got past them re: asthma, but now they want me to get an allergy test, they said something about walnuts... I've never been allergic to walnuts, maybe they screwed up?  Either way, I booked the allergy test so hopefully soon enough I can get this show on the road!! Good luck to anyone else waiting, and NEVER quit!!.



That's actually kind of standard if you have breathing/cardiovascular problems or diseases of any kind. Asthma can be triggered by allergies, in which case can be deadly as it was for me as a child. I was allergic to chocolate, cheese, dust, pollen, cat+dog (basically animal) hair, cigarette smoke, etc etc etc.... Anyone of those things could set off an attack for me and I'd be at the hospital. Yeah, I missed out on a lot of chocolate as a kid. Pizza too.... 

So when I applied to the CF originally way back, I had to get an allergy test also... Allergies change apparently because along with having defeated asthma I also have barely any allergies now. Basically nothing except minor level 1 irritations to pollen and certain fungus and trees. The specialist Dr who did my allergy test said that I'd have to eat the bark off a tree or the fungus to have any type of reaction and it wouldn't do anything. He even said he'd write me up a letter if the CF needed it stating that I'm perfectly fit for military service/field work.

Keep at'm boyz+gents!!!


----------



## BDTyre

Funny, they never made the link between asthma and allergies with me.  I told them I get seasonal allergies: one or two days of hay fever a year, and maybe to dogs and cats.  The MO even told me there's nothing to worry about in that regard.  Although I may have mentioned that its never caused an asthma attack; I can't recall.

I hope after all I've been through I don't have to do an allergy test.


----------



## fleeingjam

Well then ill have that done too, apparently its the one where they poke the hell out of your arm with needles and wait for somthing to happen right? and about the allergies to asthma, it may depend on what kind of asthma you do or did have.

-Usman


----------



## chriscalow

Yeah, it's definitely a good idea to get them done ahead of time, before they ask for it, you will just save yourself another trip to the CFRC, and in my case, another day off work.  The test you describe usman, that is the same one they want me to get.


----------



## BDTyre

Well the meds at Borden classed me as exercise-induced asthma, so I can't see how they'd need an allergy test.


----------



## fleeingjam

Yeah, not only will it save me a trip to CFRC but potentially another 6 months of waiting. Exercise Inducive asthma is supposed to be post exercise asthma like thing, and reactive (which is what they said i had) is if something in the atmosphere triggers it, not neccarily caused by working your lungs.

-Usman


----------



## BDTyre

I have now completed a PFT, a methacholine challenge and an exercise induced asthma test.  The last one I did today, with both the technician and the respirologist present and I showed no signs of having any difficulty breathing afterwards, and I completed the required FEV measurements with virtually no drop whatsoever.  Therefore, I do not have asthma at all  .  While I still need to get a follow-up with the respirologist, I basically have been given a clean bill of health regarding my lungs!

Knowing my luck, Borden will still find something wrong.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

BDTyre said:
			
		

> Knowing my luck, Borden will still find something wrong.



Heyyyy.... c'mon. Your ruining the suprise


----------



## Love793

That's after waiting 9 months for a answer ;D


----------



## BDTyre

Yeah, you're not too far off on that one.  It seems that every time I send my medical in it takes longer.  :  Last time was five months....


----------



## fleeingjam

Well next time i go for my appoinment i can say ive built way more patience   thanks to ______ (ill let you fill in the blank)

-Usman


----------



## fleeingjam

Usman_Syed said:
			
		

> Well next time i go for my interview i can say ive built way more patience   thanks to ______ (ill let you fill in the blank)
> 
> -Usman


----------



## chriscalow

Well, I finally got all the copies and tests, and doctor's notes, and recommendations down to the CFRC.  I dropped it all off at the medical section and they told me I would have to go to the main desk to reopen my file.  OK.  So I go to the desk and ask them to re-open the file, I told them that I was there a month ago to do the same and that I was told that they had my old file so I didn't need to submit a new application.    

The Sgt at the centre yesterday said that I did in fact need to submit a new application.  He handed me the papers and told me to go home and fill them out.   Luckily for me I still had all the paperwork from a month ago.  I drove the hour to my hometown and back, and the Sgt was quite surprised that I came back the same day.

The Sgt and I went over my new application and things were going really good.  He went back to his office, and came back out about 10 minutes later.  He told me that they would send my medical back to the RMO for re-evaluation and once that came back my file would be re-opened.  He also told me that I should expect to hear from them within 3-5 weeks, and left me his name and extension, and a four digit number that he said could be used to track my file.

So my questions are, this four digit number, is that a new thing?  Because they didn't have anything like that last time I went through the process.  It would almost seem like they are finally starting to sort some of their problems out.  

And second, in the time that I wait for the return from Borden, Can I do the P.T. Test and Interview? And more specifically, will I need to re-do the medical after it comes back?    Am I correct in my understanding that I will not need to complete the aptitude test a second time?  Thanks for your help guys.


----------



## BDTyre

The same thing happened to me: I was told I did not need to fill out a new application.  However, in my case, it took them a week to tell me I really did need to.

Last time, I was able to do the update interview and PT while I waited for my medical; however, this time my recruiter suggested waiting for my medical to come back.

As for redoing the other parts of the medical, I'm not sure.  My recruiter cleverly avoided the question. 

But no, you don't have to redo the CFAT.


----------



## Brando304

I am about to head down to the recruiting depot to join up myself, although I do have slight asthma, it is not excersise induced. I've worked the last 5 years in construction without any problems. It is when I'm in a house full of furry animals I have a problem. I wonder if they would let me take a ventoline inhaler with me just in case... I can't even remember the last time I used it.


----------



## Brando304

One more question...what in gods name is a long brush?, and how does it work? It sounds like a really long tooth brush you shove down your esophagas to brush your lungs...


----------



## NiTz

hehe.. brando

Did you ever try to insert something into your mouth so deep that you would even be able to brush your throat? Do you really think that there are people on this earth using Crest lungpaste to brush their lungs for asthma? I'm not a doctor but still.. I guess the guy was kidding... lol      BTW, I don't think there's CADPAT paint neither.. (correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think that it's actually "paintable" as a pattern)

Cheers!


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I am sure you have treated soldiers with massive head colds or flu symptoms who have said the same thing about their last cold.
> 
> To Usman - there are many success stories of athletes, and soldiers, with asthma.   Check out the book BLACKHAWK DOWN for one - there is even a scene in the movie of the same name that hints at it.




7 months and no reply to this...

In 1914, the Army rejected soldiers who wore eyeglasses, thinking they were "a liability to their unit."  They changed their tune after Second Ypres and the first 6,000 casualties (out of 10,000 Canadians in the trenches at that time). 

I'm not suggesting anyone with chronic ailments should be employed in units where their ailment is going to jeopardize the mission or the lives of their colleagues, but  I'm also not against a soldier trying out and at least seeing where his capabilities lie.  If it turns out the combat arms are not for him, there are plenty of supporting trades for him/her to ply if they have diabetes, asthma, hypertension, irregular heartbeat, migraine headaches, flat feet, fallen arches, walleyes, pigeontoes or the need to be breastfed.  Fit soldiers should get the priority on even these supporting jobs, but if we're low on manpower, I don't think you need Rambo filling a desk position, either.


----------



## fleeingjam

The four digit number might be the number your supposed to dial when you call into the centre, kinda like a buzz number for apartment bulidings. From what ive seen you need to redo application, P.T and Interview. The medical is what the documents are for i guess.

-Good Luck man
-Usman


----------



## putz

Heres my story:
Got medical rejection closed my file
x 2 weeks Got all applicable information (wheeze in my lung was just a chest cold) from doctor including PFS
X4weeks cleared medical
went to CFRC/E (for me) and they reopened file
HAD to redo the following:
Security Clearance 
PT test (as it was over 6 months old)
Did interview
Now merit listed

I DID NOT have to reapply, however, my file was closed for only 2 weeks.  Hope this helps from someone who has this happen.


----------



## spenco

When I had my second kick at the can I had to re-do all tests save the CFAT and med part 1, however my file was closed from august to december.


----------



## Love793

QY Rang said:
			
		

> Well, I finally got all the copies and tests, and doctor's notes, and recommendations down to the CFRC.   I dropped it all off at the medical section and they told me I would have to go to the main desk to reopen my file.   OK.   So I go to the desk and ask them to re-open the file, I told them that I was there a month ago to do the same and that I was told that they had my old file so I didn't need to submit a new application.
> 
> The Sgt at the centre yesterday said that I did in fact need to submit a new application.   He handed me the papers and told me to go home and fill them out.     Luckily for me I still had all the paperwork from a month ago.   I drove the hour to my hometown and back, and the Sgt was quite surprised that I came back the same day.
> 
> The Sgt and I went over my new application and things were going really good.   He went back to his office, and came back out about 10 minutes later.   He told me that they would send my medical back to the RMO for re-evaluation and once that came back my file would be re-opened.   He also told me that I should expect to hear from them within 3-5 weeks, and left me his name and extension, and a four digit number that he said could be used to track my file.
> 
> So my questions are, this four digit number, is that a new thing?   Because they didn't have anything like that last time I went through the process.   It would almost seem like they are finally starting to sort some of their problems out.
> 
> And second, in the time that I wait for the return from Borden, Can I do the P.T. Test and Interview? And more specifically, will I need to re-do the medical after it comes back?      Am I correct in my understanding that I will not need to complete the aptitude test a second time?   Thanks for your help guys.



CFRC will contact you about doing the TSI and CFexprss test.  It may be a while before they get a answer back from RMO on your file, and in some cases the information in the TSI and ERC may change.  So it's in everyone intrest not waste time and money by scheduling interviews that might have to be done again in a years time.  As for the CF Express Test., again they will have to await approval from RMO, is some cases to ensure you don't drop dead in the middle of it (don't laugh it's been known to happen).  Most times the express test is contracted out to a YMCA or someone like that, so there is some major insurance issues involved.  Not to mention it cost CFRC $30 for each test (This is why they only pay for one test per applicant).  Have patience, and check in with your CFRC from time to time.


----------



## RS

Hi

I am wondering if anyone could help me out.     Here's my story........   I once diagnosed with a history of asthma. Brought on by exercise.   But this was 20 years ago and I was a Very heavy smoker back then, along with being overweight and out of shape.    I have not smoked for 16 years and I am now Very physically fit. I now swim, run and I am very active. I am also no longer over weight.   I have not had any trouble since I quit smoking.   

I passed the PT test.   In fact I did very well 42 sit ups 17 push-ups.   33.9 on the V0 2 max.   By the way I am Female and I am 40 years old.

...........Anyway to make a long story short, I was sent a letter stating that I   "did not meet the common enrolment standard. But my case could be reconsidered once a detailed current assessment from a respirologist is provided." Then it went on to say that as a recruit I may not have access to medication or medical support for an indeterminate time period.   And I should not require continuing or ongoing medical follow-up for a specific medical condition.   

I am not on any medication and have not been for 16 years.

Well I went to the Respirologist and obtained a report and a Pulmonary Function Test.   In his report he stated "I had absolutely no ongoing symptoms to suggest any ongoing problem with asthma" and he even went as far as to say that in his opinion I am a very good candidate to enter the military in terms of medical status. 

So what I am asking is.....I have provided the Medical Officer with a this report from the Specialist stating that I am medically fit to be enrolled in the forces.   Can they come back and say that the specialist report is not good enough?

If anyone out there could help me out with this I'd really appreciate it.......

Or if you have a similar story............with the medical that is.........

Thanks.....RS


----------



## infamous_p

i had the exact same thing happen to me a lil while ago... "you do not meed the common enrolment standard"... and i was already halfway through my training..

it was with regards to my depression in the past and the fact that i had been taking medication for it.. they didnt like that

im currently in the process of obtaining letters from psychiatrists and other specialists.. but it happens to a lot of people unfortunately 

good luck with yours.. hope everything works out


----------



## putz

I had the EXACT same thing happen.  Got the PFS test done and resent the medical and it came back GOOD  ;D now merit listed your PFS should be good enough was in my case!


----------



## BDTyre

Just an update:

My med file was sent back to Borden March 17-18.  Hopefully my results will come quickly.  The PA seems to think my chances are 50/50;  He feels that since they rejected me based on my last test (methacholine challenge) why would they accept me on this new one (fitness test) when the numbers are so close.  He also tried to tell me that asthma is asthma...and so on.

I informed the PA that Borden specifically asked for an exercise test because the PFT and methacholine challenge did not rule out exercise-induced asthma.  Nice to know there is a disparity between what the medical staff in the CF think.

However, it occured to me afterwards that Borden rejected me both because I had not done an exercise test, and because they thought I was on medication.  I made it perfectly clear that I can exercise without problems (as if the test is not proof enough) and I've not been on meds for a year.  Hopefully the fact that I was prescribed corticosteroids won't have a negative impact.  Anyone know about this?

We'll see what happens.  Wish me luck.  (I'm fully expecting to get another rejection letter).


----------



## NiTz

I wish you the best of luck! They should really think of calling doctors to CFRC to approve the med files so one doesn't have to wait 1 month just for a approval.. it kinda sucks


----------



## chriscalow

Well, for me, I'm getting pretty frustrated with the staff here in Toronto.  I have tried to be patient, but I'm starting to wonder what is going on down there.  Apparently, (and I was told this by a friend of mine who works as a clerk at CFRC Toronto), my file is waiting for a CRNC (criminal record and name check?).  I was also told that the CRNC's take 2 or 3 weeks to complete.  Well this is the 7th week since they told me they were going to send it.  I called them on the 28th of February, and the gentleman that I spoke with told me sharply that my file was waiting for the Enhanced Reliability Check and that I would receive a call when they knew something.

I found out my friend was working there so I had him look into it.  He told me that my file had been sent for the check on the 28th.  So.. that is my first indication that things are going wrong down there.  He told me that if I hadn't heard anything by the 21st of this month that I should be surprised AND give them a call.  So I called them today, I was bounced around through 6 different extensions, and still told nothing.

I know there is not going to be a problem with my file because I've had the check done before, and that check was used by Connaught National Cadet Training Centre as grounds to hire me.  I can't conceive how this can be taking so long after jumping through so many hoops to clear up the medical issues I had last year.  I applied in November 2003, thats over a year now.  I'm not whining, and I'm definitely not going to quit, I just hope that someone who understands the recruiting system better than I do (kincanucks?)..  

If someone knows anything or can find anything out please respond or feel free to P.M.  Thanks.


----------



## NiTz

well.. you're not whining but in your place I would surely whine a lot! What the fuck are they doing with your career?


----------



## Pieman

QY RANG,

The only suggestion I can make to you is to try to get a regular contact at CFRC. Go down there and talk to someone about the problem face to face. If they feel they can help you, get their contact information and ask if that person if they can be your main contact point. When you want something done with your file, call/email that person. 

You put a face to the name, and they will probably be more willing to help you.

At the CFRC in Calgary, each applicant is issued a 'File Manager' who handles all aspects of your application. When I want to know something, I call or email my file manager. My file manager always is on top of things. 

Perhaps that is a method other recruiting centers should look into.


----------



## NiTz

Excellent idea pieman! I think I should consider doing this. In fact, each and every single time I go to the CFRC to get informations on my file, I never talk to the same person. Not that the service is not good, but that would make sense to me to get a "file manager". Very good idea!



Cheers!


----------



## chriscalow

Pieman, thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately, this is also a brick wall I've been running into.  The Petty Officer who handled my first application was very helpful, but..as my luck would have it, come time to re-open my file, he gets a new posting in Valcartier...

I have tried several times to have someone assigned to my file/have myself assigned to someone, and I keep getting the runaround.  The last time I was there I spoke with a Sgt. and he seemed very helpful at the time, he gave me his contact information and I though things were finally moving.  Well, I was wrong, I can't get in contact with this person, I've left  messages for him, and nothing heard.  It seems that I get better answers when I just call down and talk to random people.. (granted none of the answers I do get from these people match each other).

I would love to go down there in person except for the fact that A: I work day shift, B: I live an hour and a half away, C: I've already used up all my sick days running around trying to get doctor's notes and taking papers back and forth.  I'm spending $$$ on the bus to get there on these days, not to mention the money I lose from not going to work.  I have been spoken to by my superiors at work re: the number of times I've been away from work for the military.  As you might imagine, they aren't very accommodating when it comes to me trying to get time off to find a different job.

I don't want to lose this job just in case the process takes any longer.. I will roll with the punches, but someone needs to tell me what way to roll.  Thanks anyways.


----------



## Pieman

QY Rang,

I certainly can understand your situation. They must really shuffle through staff at the CFRC in Toronto or something. Strange how you can't seem to maintain contact with one person. 

Either way, keep at it and good luck. Perseverance always wins in the end.


----------



## reality_therapy

I have my PFT tomorrow morning. 
I have never been diagnosed w/ asthma. Only used inhalers when sick w/ a really bad chest infection about a yr ago.
I have no idea what is considered a pass or a fail for this PFT.

Can anyoine give me some stats to work w/ here?
What should I be asking the specialist or what numbers should I be looking for?

Thanks.


----------



## BDTyre

Don't quote me on this, but a PFT I think is to determine lung volume and whether or not you breathe normally or have some sort of airway obstruction.

I had two doctors and a technician tell me that the PFT does not determine asthma, but if it cmes back negative for airway obstruction, they use the FEV (basicaly the amount of air expelled) as a basis in future tests and they see if and by how much that drops in certain situations, i.e. reaction or exercise (this being done in a methachoine test or an exercise test).

A PFT in your case my be used to determine if there is still an obstruction or a problem with your breathing.

Don't take my word for it: I'm not a doctor.  But I've been through these tests, asked many questions and looked it up online.  Good luck!


----------



## chriscalow

WOOO!!!! Got merit listed today!! LOOONG HAUL, but it's over now, had update P.T. on tuesday, and the Interview today went great.. RCR here I come baby!!


----------



## NiTz

congratulations and good luck to you !


----------



## Wisconsin_Diskgolfer

I was upset when a recruiter for the US army told me I could not join the US army because I have asthma. I am a U.S. citizen. Is it at all possible that I can be in the canadian army and if so how could that happen? If not is there any suggestions of what else I might be able to do?


----------



## Michael OLeary

Please start with the Asthma section of the Recruiting FAQ:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103980.html#msg103980


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## Budgie

Alright...I don't know if anyone remembers a few months ago when I got rejected for asthma reasons....anyway, I went down and talked to the medic at canada place here in edmonton and she advised me to get a letter from my doctor stating that I didn't have asthma anymore nor did I need prescription meds. I asked her specifically "Is this all I need to pass my medical.?" She said yes.

So I went to my doctor and she made me do a "spirometer" which basically checks for a wheeze in your throat. I was sick that day so they said if anything was going to show up, it would've been that day. I passed and my doc wrote the letter saying that I am healthy.

I resubmitted my application.

On friday I got another rejection letter. They basically ignored the letter from my doctor and went by last years incorrect information.
Right now I'm trying to get ahold of the medic here in edmonton to find out what's going on and what I can do. Because this is ridiculous. 


Anyone had a similar experience? Any comments or suggestions ? Because I'm at a loss here.  ???

thanks for reading this.

Liz


----------



## BDTyre

I had a similar situation, and ended up having to do an exercise stress test, which basically involved running on a treadmill for about fifteen minutes or so.  The results of that, with a short accompanying note from the respirologist put matters at rest.


----------



## fleeingjam

Yeah i have completed a Methacoline and a PFT (Pulmonary Functions Test). They gave this huge bunch of papers with all these wierld calculations and results of the tests on them and a letter from my respirologist and the hospital stating i do not have asthma. But im not sure anymore because there is also this exercise stress test thingi, has this become standard for them? because alot of people have got cleared without having to do that stuff.


----------



## tang72

I have an appointment with my allergist Nov 19th, I hope things go well for me. On the rejection letter it says my case *could* be reconsidered. For those of you who got a note from a doctor, what did you have to tell them? I'm afraid they wont write me one just because they dont want to be responsible for anything that happens to me while im deployed. 

Budgie, did they know that was your second time? if yes, what did the second rejection letter say?


----------



## alexpb

I am currently 18 years old and after doing a search and reading numerous posts reguarding asthma and the medical testing i am quite nervous now.

I read about a guy who had "exercised enduced asthma" as a kid and hadn't taken an inhaler in over 10 years and does not suffer from asthma anymore. Yet, he was still rejected from the CF.

Here is my story...

When i was younger, around 10 or 11. I was at a week camp up north. Anyways one night I was out at the fountain getting a drink of water and we werent supposed to be out past a certain time, so anyways i was running back to my room with a mouth full of water and swallowing it at the same time. I guess it went down the wrong pipe because as it did it really hurt my throat, so i kind of grabbed my neck for a second and coughed (causing the water to come back up). I guess i could of choked to death, heh. :-\

Anyways my leader (the guy in charge) saw this and came to help me thinking i was having some sort of asthma attack (i didn't know this until later on). After seeing that i was okay, i went to bed.

So a few days later they are calling out medical stuff for people and all of a sudden to my surprise i hear "alex p.b" and they hand me an inhaler. I was really surprised because i had never had one before and they never did any tests i just suddenly had one prescribed to me with my name on it and everything. I never used it. Apparently they gave it to me for "exercised induced athsma". But i NEVER used it.

SO getting back to me being nervous...that was like 8 years ago, and i haven't taken an inhaler or needed any type of puffer. I am very nervous because after reading those stories my hope to be in the CF is soon to be crushed because some stupid guy thought i had asthma and some stupid doctor gave me an inhaler out of no where.

Will this be on my medical history? Only reason i am asking is because it happend no where from home and it was prescribed to me out of no where.
 I have NO other problems. I have never had any type of disorder or disease or anything that would cause any type of problem with being in the CF.

I read another post that one could go to their doctor and preform an asthma test and take the results to their medical. Would anyone reccommend this? I am sure i don't suffer any type of asthma and if i'm turned away because of this i am going to be outraged.

Am i just getting worked up for nothing or what? As of now i'm waiting for 9:30 to call my doctor's office to try to schedule some sort of "asthma test" before my medical on the 14th (if this is even necessary).

Any help with my situation would be appreciated so much.

Thanks,

Alex


----------



## Beast 77

Hey,
When I did my medical I wrote on the form that I had a "history" of asthma because I was once prescribed an inhaler, (the doctor thought with my cold at the time that I "might" have asthma). The medic told me that I would have to prove that I did not have asthma by getting a doctor's note. I went to my doctor, she wrote a little letter saying that I have never had asthma and that was it. No test necessary. Good luck.


----------



## alexpb

Thanks for the reply.

I just quickly drove down to the CFRC and spoke with a recruiter.

Was hoping to speak with the medic there but he was busy with medicals.

I got the 1-800 number and his extension to phone later today or tomrorow perhaps. I was happy to hear from the the recruiter that i am more then welcome to go to the doctor, have any test down i needed (wasn't allowed to go into detail with him though) and bring a note with me to the medical. He said it WOULD expediate the process and i'm more then welcome to do so.

So hopefully i can get some type of appointment with a doctor to preform the testing before my medical on the 14th.

Anything anyone wants to add will be great. 

Thanks, 

Alex


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## fleeingjam

Well alex p.b, what the med officer at the CFRC running the med test will do is ask you a whole string of questions. One i think will be regarding asthma, if you had it or if you use a puffer. Now this mysterious person who prescribed you the inhaler is not you general physician right? because if he isn't then technically you never had asthma or anything like it. So when the med officer asks you, you will have to answer yes i have used a puffer almost 8 years ago. And tell him your story, if he provides you with a letter to be filled out by your doctor then it shouldn't be a problem because he/she never diagnosed you with asthma. Anyhow the asthma tests you need done aren't regular kinda walk-in done tests. Your doctor will have to first refer you to a respirologist,then arrange an appointment. Then the respirologist will send you to have tests done and in the end write the report with the results. The two tests done are the PFT (pulmonary functions test) and the Methacoline Test. The methacoline triggers and asthma attack, if you do not have asthma nothing should happen (which is what you want). Its all calculated with lung capacity and heart rate and stuff. BUT since you have mentioned Exercise Inducive, theres a third test called an EIT (Exercise Inducive Test) in which i believe you are physically exerted and then they do PFT's and stuff. I would suggest going in and having your med test done, then see what you are left with.

Im sure you won't get stuck in this, but if you do its gonna be a long wait. But its funny i feel like i could wait another year after waitng two already.

-I hope this has somewhat helped you and not further scared you.
-Good Luck
-if you have any other questions just PM.
-Usman Syed


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## dearryan

alexpb said:
			
		

> I am currently 18 years old and after doing a search and reading numerous posts reguarding asthma and the medical testing i am quite nervous now.
> 
> I read about a guy who had "exercised enduced asthma" as a kid and hadn't taken an inhaler in over 10 years and does not suffer from asthma anymore. Yet, he was still rejected from the CF.
> 
> Here is my story...
> 
> [Body of earlier post trimmed by Moderator, see above for full text.]
> 
> Any help with my situation would be appreciated so much.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alex



I think I would be a little more concered as to where this mystery inhaler came from. In my opinion (Im no expert although) getting a pre emptive asthma exam is a little extreme. If you feel the need to cover your a##, by all means do so. But Im pretty sure the camp dude was just covering his when he tossed you the puffer. all the best

Ryan


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## NavyGirl280

I had my medical done this morning. The subject of my asthma came up. Now my interview is delayed while I go to my doctor and get a 9 page "assessment" done to show I am capable to doing the PT. He told me its to save me the $$$. If I go into the PT without a note from my doctor, they can turn me away immediately and I would have to pay to have it redone. Whereas, if I have this note, I can go in and have it done. I guess in the end we all win.


S.Bradbury


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## buckwild

So right now I am waiting to hear something back, I am currently trying to get into the reserves and cutting it tight to make it into the winter training. It's got me a little stressed out, I am trying to book my P.T testing but everyone is on holidays and I need to have it before the first week of January  ??? !!!!! I just hope everyone works out as planed!

Any advice from anyone?


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## Chauhan

Where are you located? Here in Brampton the P.T tests are taking place all around the holiday times.. Had mine last week or so, Couple of buddies of mine have it Dec 27th, I myself am waiting for my med on Jan 17th before the program starts in the first week of feb.


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## buckwild

Kingston, Ont


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## Fondle-Otter

A few days ago I did my army medical exam. I told them that I had asthma and it was set off by my allergies. I don't completely know the whole story with so I told them that it was agravated by allergies becasue I really had no clue about what set it off and it made sense because around the time I had my asthma I was around a cat, and cats make me a bit stuffed up. It was only for about a month that it effected me and that was about 5 years ago, since then I have not been issued medication or been taken to the doctor for it. But after the exam I was talking to my dad and I found out that my asthma was not induced by allergies and was actually "post viral pediatric asthma" and also it was never diagnosed. I was given sheets to fill out by my doctor and told to bring them back.

The day after the exam I phoned them and told them that I was never diagnosed with asthma and that I was just assumed to have had it because my sister had it.They told me to go to the doctor anyway and get the doctor to sign the forms. So will this effect my chances of being accepted as a Signal Operator, or how long could this possibly delay my entrance into the forces? This probably sounds pretty minor but any reassurance couldn't hurt. Thanks.


----------



## Fondle-Otter

Right well I went to the doctor with my little sheet and he just wrote that I had past asthma and I have grown out of it and I don't need any treatment and there is low chance of it recurring. Will this be enough to show the people in Borden that my past asthma experience wont be a problem or like other people here will they want me to go get more testing done. I know I'll be told that I have to just wait and see, but from other people's experience will this be good enough?


----------



## Michael OLeary

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

ASTHMA LINKS FROM THE RECRUITING FAQ:

Asthma

Clarifying Asthma  --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/19197
Have any infantry got medical rejection from borden for asthma and made it in...   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/17925
Mild Asthma a problem?  --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/12917
Recruit with Asthma  --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/6265
Recruit with Asthma   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/6113
Asthma in the army   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/13549
Asthma? Need advice!   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/19274.0.html
Do they allow asthmatics in the CF?   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/1995
Asthma   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/17046
The wait   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/1567
Medical Question   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/16933
Any Reserve Infantey Soldier's have asthma?   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/16935
What to do while waiting for an appeal?   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/13610
Asthma   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/13341
How did you handle it.   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/13162
Wanting to join..   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/13206
another medical topic   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/18298
Told to come back in 2 Years.   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/18981
ETA of files return from Borden?   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/13738
health requirements   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/12827
can anyone give me some info?   --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/24

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


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## double0three

To make it easier:

From what I can tell, you can get in if you have had no symptoms or taken medication for the past 6 months.  Worst that can happen is your file is slightly delayed as you may be required to get a note from the doctor, and possibly breathing type test (forget the name of it).  So yes you can get in if you *had* asthma, but probably not if you still suffer from it.


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## hipczech

i highly doubt that you're going to get in easily...
it really depends on your symptoms and how bad your asthma is, but i really wouldn't count on getting in.


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## NavyGirl280

I just went for a respiratory test for my so-called asthma. I have an inhaler that I use when my colds get bad enough and even then it hasnt been used for almost a year or more now. Couldnt begin to tell you where it is  :   Im still waiting for the test results from one test done a month ago and I have another test to do on April 5th.

S.Bradbury


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## JBP

Well good news for you, I'm living proof that someone who previously suffered from asthma can get in.

I had chronic asthma for my entire childhood right up until my early teens (about 13-14), then as I became more knowledgable about the subject and researching for myself I learned to avoid all cigarette smoke and excercise etc... Other things that help me defeat it. 

I had to go through those 2 tests mentioned earlier on and passed both with flying colours when I was about 19, then was offered reg force infantry at 20 (my application took A L O N G time, turned it down (fell in love) and swore into the reserves Jan 6th 2005.

There you go, a short history of someone who got in who had asthma.

Goodluck, keep doing what your doing and stick with it.

Joe :warstory:


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## double0three

R031 Pte Joe said:
			
		

> ...then as I became more knowledgable about the subject and researching for myself I learned to avoid all cigarette smoke and excercise etc..



Haha I now know what you mean, but it sounds like you said you have to avoid exercise to prevent the asthma... which of course probably wouldn't go well with the CF


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## fleeingjam

Yeah, the PFT and Meth test are the primary tests that will help, but if you wanna make yourself bullet proof theres another test called the EIT (Excercise Inducive Test) that will totally remove any reason for rejection. "Anyone get in with asthma" ....no one with asthma can get it in, you have to genuinley not have it, and Joe is living proof as are a couple of others on army.ca. PM me if you have any further questions but the links Micheal O Leary posted sum it up pretty much.

- Good Luck
-


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## Gramps

Yes you can get in if you have a mild case of asthma, you will have to jump through a few hoops though and probably go through your family doctor for a letter stating you can do the job. Avoiding exercise is a BS excuse!!! I used to use an inhaler all of the time when I was younger and was told to avoid strenuous exercise. With my case the condition got better with doing cardio (I know this may not be the case for all ), last summer I did 12Km runs two to three times a week and a couple of 8Km runs with a lightly packed ruck sack too with no problemsat all. I do still have an inhaler but I rarely use it and it has never once come to the point that my job was affected by the condition. From what I know entry into the CF with the condition is done on a case by case basis (I could be wrong there though) it took me a long time to prove to the medical staff involved that I could do the job with no problems but it was definitely worth the wait. Good Luck and get ready for a longer recruiting process than most others since you will be required to prove yourself to the recruiters and the medical staff as well. You may be surprised what can be done with a little hard work, patience and training. Cheers.


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## catchemall

You bet you can get in with Asthma. I did!! Had childhood Asthma and later suffered from EIA or exercise induced Asthma, admitted to it when I applied and still got in. Each time I do my express test I check the "Do you suffer from Asthma" box, go to the MIR, get the go ahead to take the test and get exempt everytime. Believe it or not the best advice I ever got about Asthma came from a Message Therepist, she said to practise breathing deeper, from the belly, and give my lungs a break, Asthma suffers tend to stress their lungs by breathing from the chest. 
For what its worth!!

Cheers!


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## NavyGirl280

Sounds like a bit of sunshine on this snowy day  :

Thanks a lot. I have told my husband that I refuse to give up until I hear the "official No" from Borden. Medical already has my family doctors note stating that I can go through with it. The respiratory test is whats holding me up. But Ill keep on pushing. I can't remember once in my life when I have given up on something  

S.Bradbury


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## Caleix

when i went through basic, the only time asthma was brought up was when we were heading into the gas hut, unless you feel like your going to gag on your lungs that are coming up your throat when you run i think you shouldnt have any troubles with it. just make sure your family doctor clears you.

Caleix


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## Gramps

Caleix said:
			
		

> when i went through basic, the only time asthma was brought up was when we were heading into the gas hut, unless you feel like your going to gag on your lungs that are coming up your throat when you run i think you shouldnt have any troubles with it. just make sure your family doctor clears you.
> 
> Caleix



I have been gassed many many times in the last 15 years both in the hut and the field, with and without a gas mask too and never once has it bothered me in that way, there are a lot of misconceptions, myths, and fallacies about the condition that many believe to be true that are just not always the case. This would have been done to cover themselves just incase something happened but not necessary for each serving member with the condition.


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## JBP

double0three said:
			
		

> Haha I now know what you mean, but it sounds like you said you have to avoid exercise to prevent the asthma... which of course probably wouldn't go well with the CF



I guess I worded that wrong... What I meant is I started TO excercise!!! Not avoid it!!! I was always active as a kid anyway and in track and field and wrestling etc... Always enjoyed football and played lacross, so that wasn't a big change for me, just had to run more and do cardio work more is all. It worked for me, I'm declared asthma free!

Goodluck


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## ACE_aifilaw

Ok, first of all.  Sorry if something like this has been posted, but all I could find were posts for EITHER allergies OR ashtma.

Ok, from what I have read so far, the main issue in being enrolled is physical activity induced asthma, since you are going to constantly be participating in strenuous activity.

I really want to be in the infantry, and I have allergy induced asthma, and even then it is mild.  Non-existant in the winter.  It's just with stuff like ragweed, dust, and animals and such.

Do I still have a good chance of being enrolled in the Infantry, if I can pass the physical test without any problems?


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## xo31@711ret

How bad is it? Do you require any medications? If you are on exercise / on tour in spring/summer/fall (ie 7 months of the year) and have an allergy attack; does it restrick you? If so how bad? Would you have to evacuated? Could it become life-threatening? What is you history? Have you ever been hospitalized? And the list of questions goes on & on & on......Recommend put in your application, do your medical and talk with the physician assistant / Snr med tech. He or she is the only one who can steer you in the right direction on any medical matters.

-gerry


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## ACE_aifilaw

Not bad, just a puffer when breathing becomes slightly difficult, not if i have my puffer, i wouldn't have to be evacuated, never life threatening, got it when i was 13, never been hospitalized...

Hmm, thx for making me think about these questions, and thanx for the advice.  I won't give up untill I get enrolled.


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## gnome123

I was diagnosed with same thing. Mine are from infections and grain dust. Thought it was stupid though because it was just due to heavy smoking....(smoking it self is stupid though)  now i have to wait so much longer  and i don't take any meds. 

You will eventually have to get your family doctor to fill out the forms the military physician gives you. You will have to cover the costs as well. it is then sent to Ottawa for review and you might have to take further tests with a specialist.

O well, good luck with your application.


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## xo31@711ret

Your INDIVIDUAL medical fitness for joining the CF can only be determined through the medical portion of the recruiting process and not through this board and the experiences of others.  If you want to join then apply and see where the process takes you.  

Exactly Kincanucks;  I spent 4 years doing medicals at a CFRC; I've had people say to me, 'Why do I need to get this medical form done?..Well my friend has the same thing and he's in...etc, etc,"

Realize folks that you may have a condition that others have; BUT people can and do  react differently to said same condition; the only way to determine if you are medically fit is to go through the recruiting process.

-gerry


----------



## dont.get.it.48

hey,

I went to join the CF, everything was going good till the medical. After about 4 weeks after the medical i got a letter saying that i didn't meet common enrolment standards. They rejected me because i have minor asthma and i clearly stated that it's very minor. 
All i have to do is take a puffer right before i do anything and I'm fine and I'm just like i don't have asthma. Even if i don't take the puffer, it still isn't that bad.
i play football and rugby, lift weights and do long distance running, and the asthma only affects me a little in these if i don't take the puffer, but nothing to be worried about. when i first got the medical, they gave me a form to bring to my doctor to fill out about my asthma, and my doctor said the test was good that he conducted on me. The CF clearly knew i had asthma, gave me a sheet and everything to go get filled out and everything, and everything was good and they still rejected me because of it. Why would they do that? and does anyone have any suggestions of what i can do?
so far, all i got was to see a lung or respiratory specialist, get test conducted from the doc. then perform the medical again and hand in the test performance sheets to the CF.


----------



## xo31@711ret

Sweet holy heart of Mary  :brickwall: : the medical was done.     You said you use a puffer before rugby; running; football = strenuous exercise.     You said it only bothers you 'a little' if you don't use a puffer before these exercises.    Examples of some military 'strenuous exercises': imagine you are part of a platoon on a SOVOP exercise waaaaay up in the middle of the arctic in -40 carrying a ruck, weapons, pulling a toboggan for a month - you have to use your puffer (if it ain't frozen); you lose your puffer - no medical facilities; the only medical services you have are the coy medic carrying the same gear as you plus his or her jump bag (or whatever my former compradries are using now) which consist of first line  medical gear and not every specialized pill and device for every possible medical condition known to man).     Now imagine you are in Af'stan - same rules apply (except for the -40) - you are part of a platoon  at remote forward OP camp as a base of ops for a month, etc, etc, etc. I joined at the age of 17 years as an infanteer then medic: as a teenager until I joined - played soccer; played hockey; cross-country running; played fast pitch. Ain't know strenuous exercise like humping your pers weapon, ruck on your back and a karl gustav anti-tank weapon across the Matawa Plains, Petawawa in July; likewise no strenuous exercise like being in the traces of a toboggan wearing snow shoes for weeks on end in northern Norway or (the coldest place I've been) Churchill Manitoba in Jan / Feb. In other words, most times 'strenuous' exercise what we knew before and after we joined is like, well sex before and after your married - no comparison  ;D . If you want to serve, then do as the letter asked, get a PFT, methacoline challenge, respiratory specialist, etc; whatever was asked...YOU are applying for a job...good luck and good hunting...'ain't nothin to see here folks'...in other words, (not to be too rude) what other advice do you need from here?


----------



## armyvern

Filled up with useless junk & clutter??

How's this??

There are a good many reasons that the CF does not accept people with asthma, even very mild cases of it. I watched it almost cost one of the liars his life one day on PT...he had never had an actual "attack" and chose to "not mention his asthma." IDIOT.

For one, asthma can be made worse dependant upon the type of working conditions you are under; the CF can not guarantee your working conditions. Even mild cases can take on a whole new meaning in the heat and humidty while humping a ruck up a hill. It's happened. That's why we have medical restrictions on service. 

Often asthma attacks can be brought on by increased physical workload; we tend to perform physical tasks (especially in your case as you have indicated that you applied for infantry). We can not guarantee your tasks or your physical workload.

They can also be brought on as a result of climatic conditions, do we exempt you from deployments because the climatic conditions may increase the risk of you having an attack?? We can not guarantee you will always be deployed to a location safe from smog, humidity etc.

This is the miltary. We perform the tasks required, when required in whatever conditions that our government calls upon for us to do so. If you will need to be exempted from any of these job functions, then this job's not right for you; the CF is not a "pick and choose your work today" kind of job. 

The CF releases guys with many years time in when they can no longer go when, where, and do what the CF needs them to because they have been limited by medical restrictions that limit their employability and deployability. It doesn't quite make sense to me to enlist someone that would be in the same position. Ultimately, it comes down to your health, and the CF can not guarantee that your mild case of asthma would not be aggravated by your service.


----------



## crawdaddy

I was told by the medical staff, that you can have asthma but you have to be already in the cf.

if your in the CF and then your diagnosed with asthma then you can stay in. i know someone who this has happened to.


----------



## armyvern

crawdaddy,

If they are already in, they may be allowed to stay in WITH RESTRICTIONS on their employability and deployability. Some are indeed accomodated for a couple of years. During this fixed term accomodation period they can undergo retraining/education etc to enhance their job skills.

That's whole different ballgame.

We now have new regulations regarding a thing we call "Universality of Service" that one must meet. That means that one must be fully fit for employment and deployment for retention in the CF. It's the nature of our jobs.


----------



## old medic

I'm going to post in a locked topic here. 

1st -  Is it difficult to get in when you have Asthma?  Yes.
        Is it impossible?  No.
Everyone's case is looked at separately. There are posters to this board
who have appealed and been enrolled. 

2nd - Threads with the sub-topic "If only I hadn't told them about that" seem to appear on this board
every once in a while. 

I have posted this before, but it needs repeating. 
When you sign off the questionaire during the enrollment medical you are signing a legal
document.  If you are caught making a false statement on your medical during enrollment,
your finished. 

Here are two case studies from the CF Grievance Board website.  In the first study 
you will note that unintentional non-disclosure will get you released and out of the 
military (Category 5e Irregular Enrolment). Intentional non-disclosure will get you discharged under item 1d 
(1:  Misconduct   d: Fraudulent Statement on Enrolment). Bottom line is, you will 
be released either way.
  
http://cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/casestudies-e.php?case_study_id=169

Case Summaries
Release - Fraudulent Enrolment



> The grievor enrolled in the Canadian Forces (CF) on June 27, 2002. During an immunization parade in July 2002, the grievor disclosed his allergies. These allergies were not disclosed during the medical examination given to the grievor at the time of enrolment. As a result of his medical condition, the grievor’s medical category was downgraded from G2 to G4. This change meant that the grievor did not meet the medical standard required for enrolment in the CF, and he was released under Queen’s Regulations and Orders (QR&O) item 1(d). The grievor argued that he should not have been released, and requested that the release be cancelled.
> 
> The Initial Authority did not issue a decision in this case, as its request for a second extension of time in order to respond to the grievance was refused.
> 
> The Board found that the grievor did not meet the required medical standard and would not have been able to enroll in the CF had the full extent of his medical condition been appreciated at the time of enrolment. The Board also found that QR&O item 5(e) was a more appropriate release category than item 1(d).
> 
> The Board recommended that the Chief of the Defence Staff deny the grievance. The Board also recommended that the grievor’s release item be changed from 1(d) to 5(e), and, consequently, that the grievor’s service record be amended.
> 
> CDS DECISION
> 
> The CDS agreed with the Board's recommendation to uphold the grievance in part. The grievor's release from the CF was appropriate and he would not have been enrolled if his complete medical information (allergies) had been known prior to enrolment. However, given the uintentional nature of his not disclosing relevant health information, the grievor's release item 1(d) will be amended by ADM (HR Mil) in order to reflect an item 5(e) release.




This second case study is in reply to the "But I know somebody who got in then got diagnosed"
argument. The Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) does not apply to someone 
who is already "in".  However, there is a Generic Standard and a specific standard for each
trade. If a medical condition develops that limits the member from meeting those standards,
another system of temporary medical categories, and possible accommodation takes place
for a set period of time before they too are medically released.  ArmyVern already pointed 
this out to crawdaddy in her post above. 

http://cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/casestudies-e.php?case_study_id=224

Case Summaries
Discrimination / Medical condition / Release - Medical / Universality of Service



> The grievor alleged that he was unjustly released from the Canadian Forces under item 3(b) – Medical of QR&O article 15.01, instead of receiving a second period of accommodation.
> 
> The Board found that, in principle, the grievor could have received a second period of accommodation based on the fact that, according to the Annual Military Occupation Review, the grievor’s Military Occupation was a “distress trade”. In addition, the Board found that the CO exceeded his authority when deciding not to offer the grievor a further period of accommodation, as he used irrelevant criteria to the “Guidelines for Retention of Members with Medical Employment Limitations” in order to make this decision.
> 
> Despite the fact that the grievor may have suffered an injustice, however, the Board found that a medical release for this grievor was, ultimately, the only possible outcome. The Board also found no merit in recommending that he be offered re-enrolment for a Fixed Period of Service equivalent to the length of another period of accommodation (i.e., three years). In attempt to correct the injustice caused to the grievor, therefore, the Board recommended that the CDS forward the grievance to the Director of Claims and Civil Litigation for consideration of a monetary award to the grievor.
> 
> CDS DECISION
> 
> The CDS endorses the Board’s recommendation to deny the grievance. The CDS is satisfied that the grievor was accommodated in accordance with the CF Accommodation Policy until the expiration of his Basic Engagement and that he was properly released on medicals grounds. The CDS is satisfied that the CF was not obliged to renew his terms of service to provide him a further period of accommodation. Finally, while the grievor’s CO did apply the wrong test in his recommendation for release, he was not the decision maker. Consequently, contrary to Board’s recommendation, the CDS is not satisfied that there are grounds to refer the grievor’s case to DCCL for consideration as a potential claim against the Crown.



The existing thread on the subject of lying or hiding facts during the medical is located here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13190.0.html


----------



## RB612

Hello, I have been really interested in joining the Army reserves, mainly Infantry or Artillery, but the long road to getting in seems to have gotten much longer once I read about how Asthma is a strict subject in the CF. About 3 or 4 years ago I was sitting in class and out of the blue I began to have trouble breathing and I was scared, not so much of the breathing but wondering what the hell it was. I went home sick and was taken to the hospital to see breathing specialists. At first they thought it was nerves so they gave me nerve pills. They worked but instead of making me breath easier they would basicly make me to out of it to care. Then I went back for a check up and after doing a test they said I had "borderline" asthma. I was told it was mainly set off by dairy products and colds. The funny part is that I have had my share of cheese and dairy and have gone through colds and had no problems. Then a few years ago I joined a karate club that was nearby to get in better shape and when I took the breathing test it came back perfect. Then I quit karate and eventually it went back to borderline asthma. So what I would like to know is will I have a fair chance of getting into the Reserves? I know about the other lung capacity and asthma tests and I am trying to book an appointment with my breathing specialists to get them so I will have the results to give the med staff when I do join. I have not had any asthma symptoms since that first time and it seems to be easily swayed by exercise. Right now I have joined a gym so I hope that will help. Thanks. 

P.S.: I do get out of wind when I run but I am pretty sure it is just from not being in shape(which I am trying to get into now).


----------



## The_Falcon

The only peopel qualified to answer you are the medical staff at your local CFRC.


----------



## mhawk

Your best bet is to get tested for asthma and bring the doctors forms with you to the recruitin center.  That way your prepared for them and they can have them sent ou o Bordon, from which they make the decision whether you can join or not.  From experience I was going through the recruiting stage, and had asthma as a kid.  In order to be qualified medically I had to get an asthma test, stating I no longer had it, or very mild asthma.  After which Ive had no problems and been in the military for over 2 years now.


----------



## majordoom

hi,

I'm 14 years old and, the army is really interesting me. but there is a problem... i have asthma. but, my asthma do not restrict me. ex: i can run 45 minutes without having asthma problem. I never get asthma crise (sry if the word aren't good i'm french ^^) my asthma is really really low and, when i'm not sick my lungs are perfectly normal. Do you think i'm gonna be refused because of this ''inexistent handicap'' (PS: i'm playing hockey and baseball and i don't have problem. i'm taking ventolin when i'm sick. that's all)

Thanks !


----------



## adam161

Ok so, I took the PT for my athsma once before and when some two weeks after sending it in, I received a letter saying I couldn't get in. My athsma is mild and I have never had an attack. Anyways, that was nearly a year ago and I haven't taken my puffer in several months with no problems. I took the PT again and the woman doing the exam specifically told me that my lungs were stronger than the average persons. Also, on my application I only put Infantry as a choice. Now, I'm putting 1.Infantry 2. Armoured Soldier 3. Weapons Tech. On the first test, I said coughing and wheezing were both frequent. On the second, I said never for coughing and wheezing and for shortness of breath I said "only after severe exertion." If anyone wants to comment on my chances, it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## PMedMoe

adam161 said:
			
		

> My fault for assuming someone could go beyond that.



No, but for assuming you could get that info here.  Sorry, there's nothing anyone can say.  Each case is looked at individually.


----------



## Michael OLeary

adam161 said:
			
		

> I HAVE asked. Many times before and everyone gives me the basics which I am very clear on. My fault for assuming someone could go beyond that.



*What exactly do you want to hear? * Even if there was a doctor on the forum with the expertise to assess your condition, he/she can't do it without examining you and/or your medical file.  Any information you got here, even if it was favourable, would mean exactly nothing if the CFRC review denies your enrollment.  

Should we say: _"You go girl, way to go hiding the facts and slipping through, hope you never have an attack."_

Or should we say _"You dope, you've chosen to hide a potential medical problem just to join the Army.  I hope to God you don't have an attack and endanger anyone else's life."_

Please tell us, what would you like to hear.


----------



## adam161

I haven't hid the facts! The point that I was trying to make was that my athsma has cleared up alot in the past year. I was only hoping for a profession look at whether I'm chasing something that will never happen or whether I do have  a chance.


----------



## Michael OLeary

adam161 said:
			
		

> I haven't hid the facts! The point that I was trying to make was that my athsma has cleared up alot in the past year. I was only hoping for a profession look at whether I'm chasing something that will never happen or whether I do have  a chance.



Which you were told we cannot tell you with any degree of assurance.


----------



## medicineman

As a general rule, most of us don't like to give medical advice on this site - this is something that's between you, your CFRC, and your doctors.  It's just bad medicine - and it may be the wrong advice for your case.  I'd hate to wrongly pull the rug out from under you or falsely raise your hopes - you'll just have to go through the process.

Cheers and good luck.

MM


----------



## jay_imprez

i just did my medical and interview and i told them ive been off my puffer since 1999 and said am medically fit for infantry and that they will send my file to Ottawa for final review, and that i will be able to go to BMQ at the end of August. They make it seem that it was so easy and that i will get in for sure, but from what you guys are saying its a long waiting game.


----------



## RB612

Well good news about my rather old post. I went to the hospital and had my breathing checked with the treadmill and a few weeks later they said that my breathing is fine. I wasn't sure before because the damn doctor never gave me a straight answer. They booked me for one more test to confirm that I don't have asthma. I guess the problems I experienced a few years back where caused by to much dairy garbage.


----------



## jay_imprez

so i got a call yesterday from the recruiting centre and told me that im in. i didnt even have to do the methocaline test or pulmonary functions test. i guess the medical standards dropped or they believe my asthsma is very mild. well im in and im off to BMQ on Aug 18


----------



## kabogadil

RB612 said:
			
		

> Well good news about my rather old post. I went to the hospital and had my breathing checked with the treadmill and a few weeks later they said that my breathing is fine. I wasn't sure before because the damn doctor never gave me a straight answer. They booked me for one more test to confirm that I don't have asthma. I guess the problems I experienced a few years back where caused by to much dairy garbage.



I did have asthma, although borderline, it was a concern during my application. I had to do the breathing test and my doctor had to sign a form stating that I am medically fit to do strenuous physical training in the Canadian Forces.

Asthma can hit anyone during childhood and it may come back later.  Everyone is different but I think that as long as you do all the tests the CF requires and the doctor deems you as medically fit to do physical activity, then you shouldn't have a problem.  In my case, having asthma didn't really make a difference in as I have applied to regular then later to the reserves.


----------



## justin.c

I am a recent enrollee of 4RCR in London, Ontario as a reserve infantry soldier.

As a child (10 and under) I had trouble breathing in the summer time and occassionally used inhalers, but was never diagnosed with asthma. Since then I haven't
experienced any symptoms or problems. However, when I moved up to London for school, something (probably allergy related) is setting me off again for the first time in nine years. I'm hoping its not asthma, but if it is, what do I do next? I know people have trouble getting in with asthma, but what would I do if I'm already in and have asthma? Will it result with me not being able to stay with the CF?


----------



## ModlrMike

The only person who can give you a coherent answer to your questions would be the medical professional doing the examination. It's impossible to provide a diagnisis and prognosis in this forum. See your doctor and get sorted out.


----------



## Rolayo

If you only have mild asthma, get all the stuff you need to get in.

My doctor said it's a waste of time getting a pulmonary function test because my asthma wasn't bad enough, four months after my letter gets sent, I'm denied. So, pulmonary function, that's sent, four weeks later, they want more information. Methacholine Challenge Test was done Aug 27, and with that, I no longer have asthma, seeing as how I didn't meet the percentage needed for having it..and now on Sept 10th I see a respirologist, pass my info back to the Recruiting Centre, and see what they have to say from there.

They don't look at your asthma as being mild, they look at it as being asthma, and that's terms for being denied. Once you get your stuff passed in, that's when they'll make more of a decision on it...I'd assume.


----------



## justin.c

It's even less than mild. I'm not on any medication, and theres practically nothing thats been able to trigger any trouble breathing. 
Its been a few days since I made my first complaint about breathing when I moved up to London and it seems I'm already over it. 
Is this even worth mentioning? Already as a member of the CF I'm also a little bit confused where and who I should speak with about this problem, because I don't want to withhold any information and I'm already past my enrolment medical.


----------



## Billy-The-Kid

I think this is dumb.  This just rained on my parade.  I mean, I have asthma and I never new I couldn't use my medication for one year.  People think that you will die if you have an asthma attack.  This is not true.  If you have had it your whole life like me then you know how to control it.   But what gets me, is I could probably do better on the fitness tests, then any other recruit, but since I asthma I won't get in?  That's stupid!  I'm very athletic but since I have a lung disease, that I can control, i still can't get in.  wow.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Billy-The-Kid said:
			
		

> I think this is dumb.  This just rained on my parade.  I mean, I have asthma and I never new I couldn't use my medication for one year.  People think that you will die if you have an asthma attack.  This is not true.  If you have had it your whole life like me then you know how to control it.   But what gets me, is I could probably do better on the fitness tests, then any other recruit, but since I asthma I won't get in?  That's stupid!  I'm very athletic but since I have a lung disease, that I can control, i still can't get in.  wow.



Being disappointed is one thing.  I can understand that.

But...the fact of the matter is, the rule is there for a reason.  

Let's say you wanted to go Infantry, and ended up as a LAV gunner or driver.  Just when the **** hits the fan, you have an astham attack and cannot provide fire support as the gunner in that turret, or as the driver, move the vehicle when the enemy is attacking or you are required to move that vehicle to a better fire position, or into some dead ground so the enemy can't just lob a RPG straight at you.

Think about that.  Those are just a few examples, where other people's lives are at stake where it is possible your inability to do the job is not something the Army wants to risk.  I specifically used LAV crew positions as examples.  Why?  Because in those situations, you are mounted and have an armoured vehicle around you.  You are also sitting down.  

What would happen if you were dismounted and moving to a flank, or trying to do a fighting withdrawl and on your feet?  

I can understand you are disappointed, I am trying to give you something to think about, the other side of the coin as it were.


----------



## The Dunnminator

Billy-The-Kid said:
			
		

> I think this is dumb.  This just rained on my parade.  I mean, I have asthma and I never new I couldn't use my medication for one year.  People think that you will die if you have an asthma attack.  This is not true.  If you have had it your whole life like me then you know how to control it.   But what gets me, is I could probably do better on the fitness tests, then any other recruit, but since I asthma I won't get in?  That's stupid!  I'm very athletic but since I have a lung disease, that I can control, i still can't get in.  wow.



I got in with asthma, I had to go see a pneumologist that certified that my asthma wasn't a problem


----------



## George Wallace

The Dunnminator said:
			
		

> I got in with asthma, I had to go see a pneumologist that certified that my asthma wasn't a problem



According to recent research announced on the News a few weeks ago, there has been a serious "over Diagnosis" of asthma amongst the population.  Due to improper testing many have been diagnosed as having asthma, when they did not.  Do your research and find out if the CORRECT Testing Method was/is being done.


----------



## The Dunnminator

George Wallace said:
			
		

> According to recent research announced on the News a few weeks ago, there has been a serious "over Diagnosis" of asthma amongst the population.  Due to improper testing many have been diagnosed as having asthma, when they did not.  Do your research and find out if the CORRECT Testing Method was/is being done.



Already done, my asthma was in fact only caused by my allergies an never because of exercise which makes it a minor problem really since my allergies are really soft expect my allegy of cats. I suppose I won't have much trouble unless the talibans recruit a horde of cat hehe.


----------



## NewellR

I was in the CF a few years back and was released with a clean bill of health.  When I tried to rejoin i was told that i was tested and found to have asthma while i was employed by the CF so i would need to re-take a methacoline (spelling) challange in order to get back in, which i cant afford.  

My problem with this is thus.  I have never used med's for asthma before or after the CF and I only took the meds under the direction of Med staff for aprox 2months while in the CF and never again.  I have never had an asthma attack in my whole life and was denied based on a report of asthma.  what can be done


----------



## medicineman

Take the letter to your family doc and get new PFT's and a methacholine challenge - if all is clean, I'm sure the RMO will reconsider in your favour.  I'd also see about getting a hold of your old medical docs and see what it was they were talking about and bring those consults/records with you.

Cheers and good luck.

MM


----------



## X2012

This isn't super on topic or anything, but I just feel like telling people. So I'm 19, and apparently I took puffers for a little bit when I was under the age of five for reactive airway disease. And it's never come up in the past 14+ years, at all. I still have to get a letter written up, but I guess it's good that they're thorough!


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

I don't think this will affect anything but I just feel like asking I'm 18 years old and when I was born I had asthma I grew out of it by the time I was 1 or 2 years old, never had to use a puffer or anything like that since. I'm very active so there would be no worries of me having an attack or anything...... this wont affect anything will it?


----------



## Michael OLeary

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> I don't think this will affect anything but I just feel like asking I'm 18 years old and when I was born I had asthma I grew out of it by the time I was 1 or 2 years old, never had to use a puffer or anything like that since. I'm very active so there would be no worries of me having an attack or anything...... this wont affect anything will it?



You may not have had any incidents since under your current lifestyle conditions.  That does not mean that you aren't at risk under conditions of prolonged extreme mental and physical stress, breathing air thick with smoke, fumes and dust, and being shot at or other dangerous risk conditions.  Even a "mild" attack under such conditions could be catastrophic and lead to the deaths of yourself and others.  The CF will err on the side of caution, and will "cross every T and dot every I" to ensure that your risk level is acceptable before enrolling you.


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

I understand what your saying , but when I told the the CF medic when I did my medical about it he said I should be fine and didn't ask me to get anything signed from my family doctor about it, I know for a fact I don't have asthma anymore so I think I'll be fine. I hope so.


----------



## Grunt_031

Surprising a few years ago while teaching BIQ we had a candidate with asthma. He suffered a few attacks as a child and suffered no attack since then and was accepted. The only reason we found out he had asthma was in the final FTX ,and it was minus 55 (wWC), he had a massive attack in the middle of a platoon attack. He suffered all the way to the hospital and he said he thought he was going to die. He was medically RTU's, place back on a puffer, and then released from the military soon after.


----------



## medicineman

What we go by is duration of the illness, when it occurred, severity, when was the last time meds were used, and a few other questions before we can safely say this dude/ette doesn't need a family doctor's note.  However, there are some things that would send up red flags, regardless of when the last time the candidate used their puffers or pills - basically, it's on a case by case basis after a careful history is taken.  Some people will have no probs with the medical, others will jump through some hoops, and several will have to jump through flaming hoops - that's just the way it is.  And as I've said many times previously, if you're the unlucky one that gets the "We're sorry to inform you..." letter from the RMO, it's not personal, it's just business, and it's the way we have to do business, not only to mitigate risk for yourself, but everyone around you.

Cheers.

MM


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

medicineman said:
			
		

> What we go by is duration of the illness, when it occurred, severity, when was the last time meds were used, and a few other questions before we can safely say this dude/ette doesn't need a family doctor's note.  However, there are some things that would send up red flags, regardless of when the last time the candidate used their puffers or pills - basically, it's on a case by case basis after a careful history is taken.  Some people will have no probs with the medical, others will jump through some hoops, and several will have to jump through flaming hoops - that's just the way it is.  And as I've said many times previously, if you're the unlucky one that gets the "We're sorry to inform you..." letter from the RMO, it's not personal, it's just business, and it's the way we have to do business, not only to mitigate risk for yourself, but everyone around you.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> MM



Well at my medical exam I answered those question's, my case was not severe at all, it was such a small case of asthma, I don't believe I even had to take any kind of medicines or anything like that and I was not told to get a doctor's note or anything in that matter.


----------



## medicineman

There you go.

MM


----------



## infantrySoldier

hello, I'm recently graduated from highschool and am wanting to join the army as an infantry soldier but i suffer from asthma. i take medication as soon as i get up and before bed if needed and during the day i will be fine and be able to complete any strenuous physical activity. I'm not planning to join now I'm waiting six months and taking breathing courses as well ass daily breathing exercises and physical activity like running till my lungs cant take it. I really hope that me taking medication everyday wont matter, but everyone is telling me otherwise, which makes me want to do this even more. can i join?


----------



## ArmyRick

The recruiting center guys after your medical will have the 100% answer for you but I highly doubt based on what I have seen that you would be selected. In the infantry if your requiring regular medication to live than there is usually restrictions against that. The CF medically discharged an infantry recruit two years ago becauise an infantry recruit was diagnosed with ashtma while undergoing training.

Again, I will emphasize that to get the 100% answer, call up and talk to a recruiter.


----------



## ModlrMike

How long is a piece of string?

You've asked a poorly framed question that can't be answered here. If you want to join then apply. When you get to the medical portion you will be examined and more information may be required to determine your final medical suitability. If you don't meet the medical standards, so be it... move on. Do not consider hiding any medical condition during the enrollment process; truth is your best ally.


----------



## Scott

And before you anser with something along the lines of, ''I said MILD asthma...'' and get upset, let the CF med types decide what is mild to them.

That's about as clear as it can get beyond what Mike said.


----------



## Dkeh

I will share my personal experience with you. 

I have asthma, and as soon as the Army saw that, they rejected my application (this was 5 years ago). 
I was not content with that, so I spent a day on the phone, calling everyone who sounded even remotely important, going over the DND website, finding every phone number I could get my hands on. Finally I was told that I had to take a breathing test, called a Methacholine Challenge Test, which basically measures the severity of your asthma, and if it is mild enough, they will allow you to join. The waiting time on this test, in my area (southern Ontario) was 8 months. Fortunately, I  got in in under 2 weeks, passed the test. I have been in the infantry for 5 years.

That being said, asthma in the army (Infantry at least) will fuck you up. There is a lot of running, marching with a lot of weight, pollen, shitty weather...basically lots of things that will be exasperating your condition. I literally carry 2 inhalers with me whenever I am in the field. 

Google the Methacholine Challenge Test, learn what it is, and schedule one now. By the time your application comes up, your appointment should be due


----------



## Bliss

I have minor asthma that only really bothers me on long runs im also a ciggerette smoker of 10 years (im onlt 23) and im worried i wont be able to make it. Anyone els with asthma have experince with this?

My asthma is very mild i don't even use any drugs for it and i think it might have been more of a childhood case, but my endurance is horrible im in good shape too its just long runs that get me perhaps i 'd be fine i havn't even tried a long run in years since i was a kid when my asthma was more of a problem.

Also do you need a highschool education i made some poor decisions when i was 16  and dropped out of highschool, im not incapable by any means, i'm actually a self learned omputer programmer and graphic designer (went to the school of google  ).

I need somthing that is high adrenaline.


----------



## JorgSlice

Most of your answers can been easily located on the official Canadian Armed Forces recruiting site FORCES.ca

My advice, attempt to quit smoking and/or work on your running and cardiovascular endurance. You will need it. If you get winded and have to stop after 10 minutes at a fair running pace, you won't cut it. Start working on it sooner rather than later or Basic Training will be hell. There is a minimum fitness standard you must succeed.

You must have completed at the minimum, Grade 10. However, regardless if you have Gr10, a GED, a HS Diploma, or a degree; if you cannot reach a certain level on the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test your options of trades/occupations will be very limited. The more technical you get, the higher the educational and CFAT requirements get. 

Consider this though, you are a Soldier First. You must be willing and capable of donning Fighting Order, a weapon, and fight with maximum exertion and aggression.

High adrenaline - not always. There's a lot of classroom instruction, a lot of practical instruction, a lot of waiting.
Keep out of trouble - to a degree. However you are ultimately responsible for your own actions and you cannot rely on the CF to keep you out of trouble. It's not a babysitting service.


----------



## medicineman

Bliss said:
			
		

> I have minor asthma that only really bothers me on long runs im also a ciggerette smoker of 10 years (im onlt 23) and im worried i wont be able to make it. Anyone els with asthma have experince with this?
> 
> My asthma is very mild i don't even use any drugs for it and i think it might have been more of a childhood case, but my endurance is horrible im in good shape too its just long runs that get me perhaps i 'd be fine i havn't even tried a long run in years since i was a kid when my asthma was more of a problem.
> 
> Also do you need a highschool education i made some poor decisions when i was 16  and dropped out of highschool, im not incapable by any means, i'm actually a self learned omputer programmer and graphic designer (went to the school of google  ).
> 
> I need somthing that is high adrenaline.



I don't have asthma and I was getting short of breath too because of your run on sentences.

In my experience, as I've said previously, everyone's asthma, angina, allergies, brain injury, depression, mania, psychopathy, etc are always minor.  You'll be given a questionnaire that needs to be filled out by your doctor reagarding your asthma - the rest is up to the Recruit Medical Office to decide if you meet the criteria.

MM


----------



## Wolfgang1010

Hey guys, I just finished my medical, my blood pressure was a little high so I got the note getting my doctor to sign off and so I did the next day and passed. The fact that I failed the first blood pressure reading can that cause any complications?
 Also I mentioned childhood asthma but never used a puffer or anything, the doctor never gave me a note like she did for my blood pressure, so I am assuming my childhood asthma is nothing to worry about, correct?


----------



## JorgSlice

The CF will ask for documentation from your doctor that will say whether or not it will affect your enrolment into the CAF. It'll be based on several factors, bottom line is basically: "Will this person have an attack and collapse if they're doing high-intensity, high-adrenaline operations or training?" If your doctor even says there's a possibility, the RMO will probably deem you unfit for service.

Best bet is to consult the Medical Technician at your CFRC.


----------



## JorgSlice

Emilio said:
			
		

> No form=No problem



Whoa whoa whoa. Are you a recruiter? Are you a Med Tech with knowledge of medical standards for recruiting? Are you a Medical Officer with the CFRG?

Don't tell people "no form = no problem."

Wolfgang, read my post again. In the morning contact your CFRC Medical Section and ask them to be safe rather than sorry.


----------



## Nudibranch

Wolfgang1010 said:
			
		

> Hey guys, I just finished my medical, my blood pressure was a little high so I got the note getting my doctor to sign off and so I did the next day and passed. The fact that I failed the first blood pressure reading can that cause any complications?
> Also I mentioned childhood asthma but never used a puffer or anything, the doctor never gave me a note like she did for my blood pressure, so I am assuming my childhood asthma is nothing to worry about, correct?



I agree to double-check.

But many times "childhood asthma"...isn't. And the MT/PA at the recruiting center knows that, so if they took a good history (how old, ever take meds/need to go to ER for it, did you have an actual diagnostic test for it vs did the doc just call it asthma when you wheezed a couple times at age 18 months when you had a cold), it is possible that you need nothing else. Double-check to make sure it doesn't come back later and delay your application.


----------



## B.Grewal

Just an update... during my medical I declared asthma in childhood, and had to fill in a sheet about my useage and asthma issues. Also I mentioned that I had been given an inhaler at 21, but since it was an isolated event  and not reflective of asthma I did not have to put it down as the last time I used an inhaler. I was asked about my family medical history and given an examination of my lungs/breathing via the doctor. After all said and done, I was deemed healthy and thus concluded my medical.

Did not need to take a form or do any tests,

I guess the process really does depend on the severity of your situation. I think a dependency on inhalers is the major issue and your frequency of inhaler use will determine whether you need further testing or not.

Anyways, now its waiting game for me to get merit listed,

Best of luck to all who have asthma or inhaler related issues


----------



## ModlrMike

Nobody here can or will answer your question. You file will go to the Recruiting MO for determination. 

There are dozens of threads on asthma here, and all of them have the same answer I gave you, which is the most anyone can do.


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## JayJay88

hi, ive been refused to the CF because my asthma problem . i dont have really problem its just because this winter , when i am doin some jogging i was trying to take some asthma pump to help me but its doesnt make any difference ans i stop take some ,and i havent take pump since many year ago . the problem is that the medical tech ask my medical document and when he saw the pump prescrition ive been refused to the cf because of this prescription . they send me a letter about and what they said , i can retry with new information that can change te situation by i dont know what to do ..... do you have some trick to tell me , im te only one that have that kind of enrolement problem , i run 5 km 3-4 per week and do all the push up and all they want but is realy just beause my medical nfomation ...... ( sorry for my english im french canadian from quebec ) thanks for your trick and info


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## PMedMoe

I can't believe that a doctor would prescribe you asthma medication without doing any kind of testing on you.

Best you can do is get a letter from your doctor saying you were never tested for (or diagnosed with) asthma.


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## ModlrMike

There are no "tricks" you can use to be enrolled in the CF. Your next step is to take the letter to your doctor and get a referral to a specialist for an asthma test. Obtain a copy of the result and provide this information to the recruiting center. That should provide you a definitive answer.


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## Duncan7020

Hello, I am a teenager who is heavily considering joining the military once I am 18, overall I have fairly good overall endurance, strength, and fitness and I will be working continuously on improving those. However I have slight Asthma that has never really been a problem for me however I still do have it. I have never had to use my puffer in years and I have never had an asthma attack. I can run far for long periods of time and I am getting better at doing so every day. I may as well not even have Asthma as I never notice it. As of recent I have ran 1.5 Kilometers in about seven minutes, which was considered above average and it was only about 20 seconds behind most of the best runners in my class. I did not feel weak after running ad I only stopped to walk for about 10 seconds. I really do not want to be restricted from my dream just because I have a condition that doesn't even affect me. Thank you for your answers. Go Canada!    :threat:


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## mpelletier92

Hi all, been gathering a lot of information here for a while to know what I'm getting into before going to basic but I have an unanswered question to ask.

Sometimes but more often during cold days, my bronchi seem to contract a little. To illustrate that in numbers, its like: 100% Airflow to the lungs 7/8 of the time and 90% airflow to the lungs 1/8 of the time (like I said, more often during cold days). I've been dealing with it since my early teenage and I always have been able to do physical training, running and everything else. To compensate I use a bronchodilator called Ventolin ... it's an inhaler. 

My question is: Will I be allowed to carry it with me during basic?

Update: I have written the post in present to simplify the reading but it's been a while since I've had this kind of symptom. Like I said below, it was in a preventive measure. Sorry for being unclear.


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## PMedMoe

Did the fact that you use Ventolin come up during your Medical?

Or have you even started the recruiting process?


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## mpelletier92

No I didn't mention it since I didn't thought it would be a useful information. I don't use it often. It may be my bad not to have mentioned it.

During medical the doc asked if I was taking any pill, I told him that I took naprocin for a month and he told me that it was not necessary to mention it ... after when he talked about asthma and all that related stuff I just thought ... well it's not even worth mentioning it.


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## PMedMoe

It is prescribed by a doctor, isn't it??

If you use a _prescribed_ asthma medication, you'd be wise to mention that.  Even at this point.


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## Duncan7020

So I originally wanted to be a soldier but with asthma thats almost impossible, however I still want to help out and I would assume that an ammunition technician wouldn't really do much running or anything, if even any at all. so im looking for clarification or other infomation you guys could give. Id really appreciate it and if I cant be an ammunition technician, what other jobs could I do in the forces with asthma?


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## medicineman

Duncan7020 said:
			
		

> So I originally wanted to be a soldier but with asthma thats almost impossible, however I still want to help out and I would assume that an ammunition technician wouldn't really do much running or anything, if even any at all.



Hate to tell you Dude, but Ammo Techs are actually soldiers...as for other jobs, well you'll have to talk to Recruiting and go through the process to find out how bad your asthma really is so the Medical Folks can see where you fit into the asthma spectrum and the CAF.

MM


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## Atominthesky

Honestly, I'm worried I'm wasting my time at this point. Spending the next 4-6 months going back to school with some online courses so I can qualify for CEOTP Pilot program. BUT I have Asthma, and yes I still have it and still take medication for it. It is acute asthma. So I'm able to get a doctor's note and do the methacholine test to prove it will be of little to no risk but from what I've read they may simply decline me anyway. What are my chances?


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## medicineman

If you're lucky, Cdr(Ret) Gray will be doing your medical at CFEME if he's still practicing...however, the standards evolve as well - that paper is nigh on 23 years old.  As has been mentioned here by me and many others, we're not getting sucked into your specific issues online.  They, and I'll bold this so you can't miss it, *need to be taken up with the recruit medical staff at your CFRC and in Ottawa*...if you're lucky to make it to aircrew selection, you'll be gone over inside and out at CFEME in Toronto.  There are many applicants for few jobs and the standards are there - if you don't meet them, you don't get the job.

My  :2c: for what it's worth, if you have even some minor issues with your methacholine challenge, I'm willing to bet that your lungs are really going to hate pressure breathing dry aviation oxygen for extended periods.  But I'm just an undersea medicine guy, not aviation.

MM


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## Atominthesky

Unfortunately I think I need to bow out. I don't think I can justify spending the next 6 months re-schooling to apply, go through the CFAT, interviews, maybe even as far as aircrew selection ultimately to face a high chance of rejection for something out of my control. Frustrating to say the least.


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## Jarnhamar

Atominthesky said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I think I need to bow out. I don't think I can justify spending the next 6 months re-schooling to apply, go through the CFAT, interviews, maybe even as far as aircrew selection ultimately to face a high chance of rejection for something out of my control. Frustrating to say the least.



You could do all that make it to basic training then slip on ice and ruin your back.  If it's not going to put you at a crazy financial hardship then try it. At least you can say you tried instead of always wondering.


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## Atominthesky

medicineman said:
			
		

> What he said...like I said, get the test and go through the process.  if the test is full blown positive, then maybe call it quits - at least you did what you could then.
> 
> MM



Many of the threads and posts I read are about applicants stating they used to have asthma when they were kids, blah blah blah, they don't have it anymore and have to jump through hoops to prove they don't. Fair enough. However in my case, I can guarantee any tests done by a respirologist, including a methacholine test, the CF and even my own family doctor will prove without a shadow of a doubt *I DO* have asthma, and do require medication, however infrequent. I won't hide that fact. I know it's unaffected by intense exercise. It's a matter of time really, after about 48 hours my lungs begin to get a little inflamed, and really it's more of an annoyance trying to sleep then anything. So I use symbicort for comfort reasons. 

So really my question right now is simple, does the CF accept asthmatics or not? 

If it's always a NO, no matter how mild the case, I will move on to another career path immediately. If it's a YES, based on stipulations of scores and doctor's notes, then I will jump into this with everything I have.


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## ModlrMike

Atominthesky said:
			
		

> So really my question right now is simple, does the CF accept asthmatics or not?



The question may be simple, but the answer is not. Each case is judged individually. Only the recruiting system can answer this question definitively.

As was posted up-thread, no one here will be able to give you the answers you seek.


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## Tomyallen

Hello everyone,
As you can see I am new to these forums. I have been reading through them as a guest the past few days looking for answers and have thankfully been finding a lot of very useful information. I do have one question though that I can't recent answers to.

I'm a 23 year old female who is extremely interested in joining the military. My first big choice was Military Police considering my educational background however things such as Infantry and Artillery are also extremely interesting to me.

However I'm also an asthmatic. Was diagnosed very young and have been medicated for it for as long as I can remember. However I am what you would describe as a-symptomatic. I have read through the Asthma post's and understand it is difficult to get recruited with this-not impossible-and will require some extra work on my end to get clearance. 

What I am looking for though is to speak with people who have asthma but have made it through the entire recruiting process and into Basic. What was the experience like and what if any impact did your asthma actually have? Is there anything you can do in advance to make that process easier? Did you ever use your meds in Basic or were you well enough not to need them?

Thanks in advance to reading this over and responding if you can.


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## medicineman

Having done the medicals, it all depends upon symptom management, triggers, and positive/negative respiratory testing.  One of my kids has been going through a pile of BS because, despite negative methocholine challenges, the fact he's been treated for "asthma" when he likely had bronchitis, ends up holding up his medical file.

MM


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## Parabellum02

Hello everyone, I'm new to this website but have a question regarding asthma that (as far as I can see) has not been answered. 

When I was a child, I had very mild asthma, however, Recently I did a pulmonary test that confirmed I did NOT have it anymore. My question is; Would I be allowed to bring an old inhalator of mine to BMQ anyways? Once again, I don't actually need it, and I can prove that I don't need it, I would just feel a little more comfortable knowing that one was around me in the extremely unlikely event that I actually did need it.

Also, note that I applied for the reserves, which I hear is slightly more laid back than the reg force when it comes to BMQ prescription regulations, and I have already successfully finished the recruitment process (including the medical of course) and am waiting to be sworn in, hopefully shortly. Thanks.


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## ModlrMike

It is an offence to use medication for which you do not hold a valid prescription. I can't see that being relaxed in BMQ, reserves being laid back notwithstanding.


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## sarahsmom

Parabellum02 said:
			
		

> Hello everyone, I'm new to this website but have a question regarding asthma that (as far as I can see) has not been answered.
> 
> When I was a child, I had very mild asthma, however, Recently I did a pulmonary test that confirmed I did NOT have it anymore. My question is; Would I be allowed to bring an old inhalator of mine to BMQ anyways? Once again, I don't actually need it, and I can prove that I don't need it, I would just feel a little more comfortable knowing that one was around me in the extremely unlikely event that I actually did need it.
> 
> Also, note that I applied for the reserves, which I hear is slightly more laid back than the reg force when it comes to BMQ prescription regulations, and I have already successfully finished the recruitment process (including the medical of course) and am waiting to be sworn in, hopefully shortly. Thanks.



The only way they are more relaxed is that all medication brought to Reserves BMQ does not have to be prescribed by the MIR.
What concerns me is if you have been cleared of asthma, so you don't have asthma, why are you being prescribed an asthma inhaler?  If it's not a recent prescription, how old is it? Medication loses its effectiveness after a time. 
And if you have an asthma attack on course, or are even seen using your inhaler while on course, you WILL be sent to the ER or MIR (depending on where your BMQ is being held and when) and this could be cause for irregular enrolment. The BMQ staff are not medical, and taking meds you told them you did not need means you need to be reevaluated for your medical fitness to serve.
Not trying to scare you, but this is serious stuff.


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## Parabellum02

paleomedic said:
			
		

> The only way they are more relaxed is that all medication brought to Reserves BMQ does not have to be prescribed by the MIR.
> What concerns me is if you have been cleared of asthma, so you don't have asthma, why are you being prescribed an asthma inhaler?  If it's not a recent prescription, how old is it? Medication loses its effectiveness after a time.
> And if you have an asthma attack on course, or are even seen using your inhaler while on course, you WILL be sent to the ER or MIR (depending on where your BMQ is being held and when) and this could be cause for irregular enrolment. The BMQ staff are not medical, and taking meds you told them you did not need means you need to be reevaluated for your medical fitness to serve.
> Not trying to scare you, but this is serious stuff.



Thanks for the reply, that answers my question.


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## nic32

I applied for Pilot and did my medical part 1 in October. Since I have inhalers because of allergies to dogs, they asked me to do some others tests. I did the Methacholine test and a pulmonary function test.

My pulmonary function test went good, everything is fine. However, the Methacholine test showed that I have very light asthma, not a surprise to me.

I received a letter yesterday. It says that my medical file is refused because I have asthma. I do not know what to say. I only take my inhalers when in contact with dogs. Also, I never did an asthma attack. My family doctor said the same things on the form and that it was no big deal. 

Plus, I did the medical + medical part 2 back in 2012 and 2013 for Pilot and all was fine. Also, I did the medical again in 2014 and was accepted as a comm guy in the reserves.

Now, since I only applied for Pilot, I'm not sure if the rejection is generalized or only for Pilot. I'm going to call the CFRC Monday to have more details. 

I can challenge the decision (at least, the letter says so) and sure I will do.


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## kreeptik

I want to apologize in advance for my poor english since I am a french Canadian.

Here my story : Three months ago, I received a letter of refusal because I had asthma at a young age. In that letter, they said I needed to take a metacholine test to see if I still had it.Today, I received my results and my spirometry is normal (drop of 14% in 16mg / ml) and that I have no hyper bronchial reactivity non-specific. Hopefully, that's good enough for me to live my dream of becoming an infantryman!

All that to say, if you struggle to join the Canadian Forces due to medical problems, do not let go. Just like you guys, I wanted to come out clean and say the truth, but if you know you do not have it anymore, then follow the steps and one day your day will come! Just visualize this as a mental toughness test. You will experience way worst once you're part of Canadian Forces, so you can't think that way already.

P.S I know it's difficult, i'm still in the process and god knows if my score is good enough for them, but one thing I know is I have perseverance and I won't back down! 

Love from Quebec.
*Kreeptik
*


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## Loachman

No need to apologize - you write better than some primarily English-speaking people here. I didn't even notice an accent.

Most of us like good news like this.

"But one thing I know is I have perseverance and I won't back down!". Excellent attitude.

Qapla.


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## nic32

Little follow-up:

I appealed the decision in May and I received another letter yesterday saying that I still do not meet the medical standard. Still, they don't say in the letter what has changed since my release of the PRes in 2015 even if I asked explicitly. Maybe, they can't share that. Well, I guess my military life is over.

Thanks to everybody on this website helping each other and sharing useful information 

See ya,

Nick


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## Jarnhamar

Nick,

Sorry to hear things turned out that way for you. 
Try not to take it too personally. Not too long ago a friend of mine who served in Afghanistan was diogonosed with asthma.  Despite not having any attacks or restrictions for pt he was removed from training for a tour overseas because the docs felt it was too risky sending him.

It may not be what you're looking for exactly but consider looking into becoming a cadet officer and see if you're allowed despite the asthma. 

If you can get in there then you'll be helping young kids, many of whom eventually find themselves in the military. Guiding tomorrow's soldiers. Very worthy cause IMO.


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## war2001v

Nic if I can share my experience I got a medical rejection letter that had almost NO info I could draw from, but I just emailed a med tech from the recruiters office and told him what the letter said and he was able to tell me what I needed my doctors to prove for me to get accepted, did you try emailing your CFRC or someone for help?


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## NotEZ24Get

This read may be rather long, I hope you take the time to read my experience and coming conclusions.

I enrolled nearly 5 years ago as an overseas candidate.  I spent nearly $20k travelling back & forth between interviews and processing as required during the recruitment process.

I am an older applicant.
I wanted to enlist as an officer.
I wrote the CFAT and my scores qualified me for all trades.
I was successful in the MARS exam.
My interviews went well.
My background investigation was a literal nightmare since I have been overseas for an extended period of time.  It took literally 'years' to get my clearances which all were successful.
My educational background & employment history is rather extensive and unique.
I wanted 1 particular trade (training & development officer) to which I was told I would never be offered since the position was extremely competitive and they don't come up very often.

I had only 1 concern.  Since childhood I have always been told I have asthma.  I have been told to carry an inhaler & have done so religiously since it has been always drilled into my head since I was in elementary school to keep one with you.

I can ride 140km on a bike for 5 hours and feel awesome.  I can run 10km and laugh it off.  My resting pulse during the summer can be in the 30's.  I have always been and am 100% confident in my physical ability.  Regardless of my extensive education & work experience, I pride myself on my fitness before anything else.

On point of principle, I refused to lie about my childhood asthma & my inhaler use during my medical.  During my initial medical, I was asked to fill out forms of medications currently used.  I checked the box listing 'asthma' as a condition I have always been branded having & ventolin since I do have a blue inhaler.  I also checked Propecia since I don't like worrying about hair loss and have a sense of vanity.

I was very upfront about it.  I stated I have been diagnosed with asthma and have had taken inhalers because they really do help with the smog in East Asia during some bad days.  The medical tech listened and wrote everything down and asked me 'when was the last time you were hospitalized'?  To which I answered 13. Why were you hospitalized? She asked me.  Because if you wheeze at all, your mom grabs you by the arm, throws you in the car an takes you to the hospital...it's not like you have a choice in the matter.  She smiled and seemed to understand my sentiment.  Do you still use it?  Yes, I replied.  When do you use it?  When the air from China comes and the smog really makes it hard to breathe.  Inhalers are prescribed and they cost $1.  They also make it feel easier to breathe.   Do you need it before exercise?  No.  Do you need it after exercise?  No.   We discussed my inhaler use, how my lungs felt and she seemed to think my breathing was more from allergies than asthma.   I expressed my surprise and suspicion since my whole life I have been told I have asthma.  On really shitty days, I use an inhaler & 1 puff puts you at ease.  She listened to my lungs and all seemed fairly good.

Reading all the content on this site was both disheartening since there were those who stated they were rejected due to asthma & those who stated they did over a decade with it.   

Last year I did the entire medical again and I did not check the asthma box.  I was emailed about it since my previous medical stated I used inhalers on occasion because of my asthma and she wanted to clarify the issue.  The fact I had been diagnosed with asthma in the past and use an inhaler did not kill my application.  I told her that there were times when the smog was so bad I used the inhaler and was grateful it worked so well.   We discussed my usage and she stated she would have to forward my medical report to the RMO in order to get the final word.  Several weeks later I was declared Med FIT.  

I was not required to do any asthma test or provide any documentation.   I stated yes I've been diagnosed with asthma, I've been told I have it all my life and I do have an inhaler.  However, it has been over 30 years since I was hospitalized for asthma.  How much did this affect my file I have no idea.

Fast forward to a few days ago I received an email from my recruiter and later spoke with him on the phone.  He informed me I have been chosen for the position of training & development officer.  I was informed I would be receiving a formal offer in the coming weeks via email.  I will of course accept the offer and looked at the gov't website regarding what you are to bring with you to basic.

Prescriptions
Copy of marriage certificate.

I will of course be providing my prescriptions for Propecia and Ventolin as they were declared during my medical.  I have yet to figure out how to get an 'authenticated' copy of my marriage certificate in a manner that is simple and easy.

To say I am looking forward to basic would be an understatement.  I have been in processing for over 5 years.  It would have been extremely unprofessional to lie about any medical condition that could affect your performance.  It would be stupid to believe that one may lie about their health records which may be uncovered.  A good rule of thumb being if it has been written down officially, then it is there FOREVER.  Do not lie...  If you do, you will always be known as the guy who lied on your application.  

So yes, I stated I was diagnosed with asthma, I used an inhaler in the past and I was declared medically fit.   My experience seems to go against the grain of many other experiences here, but I am happy it did.


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## Blackadder1916

NotEZ24Get said:
			
		

> I will also add some research results that may answer some questions for some, require you to modify your entry plans for others & provide actual insight as to the medical processes that are at play during the recruitment process.  . . .
> 
> I hope this helps...



I applaud your attempt to provide some advice based on your experience and interpretation of med stds, however much of what you passed on has little or no application for an individual applying to the CAF.  Yes, each occupation has a minimum medical standard and it may vary widely between occupations, however, for applicants the only standard that (generally) applies is the Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) which is 4 3 2 2 2 5.  If the standard for a particular occupation has a higher standard (which usually only applies to vision, colour vision and hearing) then that factor must be met.  Meeting geo/occ factors of G2 O2 (these are the factors that apply to existing/previous medical conditions, need for medical care and general physical condition) is the same whether an applicant has chosen pilot, infantryman, signals or any other MOC available to someone off the street.

The medical standards are not just used to judge applicants.  Throughout a member's career, he/she must still meet the minimum medical standard for his occupation.  It is when one falls below that standard that career action may be taken, i.e. retain in the service either with or without restrictions or release.  It is for that purpose the Medical Risk Matric (that you quoted and linked) was developed and is most used - it generally has little use in the enrolment process; an applicant is either fit or not fit, they are not enrolled with employment limitations.  The Risk Matric deals with "translating MELs of members with significant medical conditions" so that the career administration folks can decide whether it is worthwhile to keep them in the service.

You noticed that some occupations have a minimum GO factor of G2O2 while others may be G3O3.  This is an indication of the ability to employ individuals with some minor (and some significant) medical conditions without disrupting the posting plot or affecting the operational capability of units.  Better examples would have been to compare Infantryman to Infantry Officer (worker bees and managers in the same units) the GO factors are the same 22.  Whereas Signals Officer (G3 O3) in comparison to the soldiers they usually lead, Army Communication & Information Systems Specialist (ACISS) with G2 O2 shows a difference.  This is because it is easier to employ a Signals Officer as he ages (and develops medical conditions like the rest of the aging population) in non physically demanding jobs than it is to employ similarly aging Infantry Officers.


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## kratz

The topic has been answered.


Sadly, LOCKED.

***Staff***


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