# Question about engineer becoming a medic



## mrmojo (16 Dec 2009)

Hi, I have a few questions and i'd appreciate any input.

My background: BSc and MSc in Engineering (took a couple of eng courses at RMC) + about 4 years eng. work experience. I'm 28.

My interests: Either to become a medical technician and serve overseas, or become an engineering officer and serve overseas -- i'm thinking about both options right now. My reasons: for the excitement of serving overseas (battle or peace keeping) and if I go the med tech. route to get experience towards applying for med school. 

My questions:

From another thread I understand that the following are the steps in training, but i'm not clear how long each one takes (other than basic which takes 13 weeks according to the forces web site). 

Are the following the right steps? 
How long does each step take?
What is the chance of deployment at the end of the training? 

Basic, QL3 Borden/Chilliwack, 16 mnths OJT, CPL and QL5's, OJT and Deployments.  

Also how much medical knowledge do you gain during the training as opposed to military knowledge and how to fix trucks? That is how long is the medical training part as opposed to the non medical training part?

Finally when you enlist as a med tech. the commitment is for 6 years -- is this correct? What if I wanted to get out after my first tour of duty after say 3 or 4 years?

Another route i'm considering is forgetting the medical role for now and going for engineering officer. However I have the following from another thread - based on the text below my questions are: 

Did Creelman re enroll as a medical technician or a MD? 

Can someone explain how re-enrolling works form eng to medic works? 

"After Toezer finished preparing his end of the ambulance, we were greeted by our crew commander Cpl. Creelman. He's another outstanding soldier, a former combat engineer who re-enroled as a medic five years ago."


Thnx all.


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## Kat Stevens (16 Dec 2009)

Gord Creelman was a Combat Engineer Cpl from 1 Combat Engineer Regiment who completed a remuster to Med Tech somewhere around 02.


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## Antoine (16 Dec 2009)

You probably did your homework but did you find reliable sources (people in the know of med school application) that can tell you if the route you are taking will help you to get in med school?

My experienced  :2c:


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## Armymedic (16 Dec 2009)

I will be totally honest. What you will learn in your 6 yrs as a medic will provide you only a sliver of the medical knowledge you will require when you are a  medical student. Anything you see, you will have to relearn anyway. Its basic skills and thought processes, and protocols. Don't get me wrong, it well be valuable experience, but its work ethic and intelligence that will get you through Med School.

If you are looking to return to university/Med school, and want the CF to help you, stay in the officer stream. Better benefits.


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## Antoine (17 Dec 2009)

Hot Tips for MMTP & MMTP(SI) Applicants :

www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/rec/phys-med/mmtpti-pmemci-eng.asp

It is "downstream" information, I hope you could find first hand information from medical doctors and/or officers that are/were involved in the process of candidate selection or know someone that is involved. Don't forget that each university (read the Admissions Board Members and above in the administration) has its own preference, and it can change from province to province and years to years. As you know, if you want to get in med school, you need to know exactly what they are looking for (more than the web site information) and check mark it in your CV as "achieved", specially if you were not able to get in med school after your undergraduate and your graduate degrees.

Regards,


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## mrmojo (17 Dec 2009)

Antoine:

Thanks for the link to the hot tips article, I found it quite useful/interesting. I think some points in it are incorrect (maybe because they're outdated)

He writes:

"My marks from RMC weren't very high. Fortunately, when I decided to go to Medical School I already had achieved high marks in a number of Courses from the University of Waterloo. Nevertheless, just to increase my chances of acceptance (and to build my own confidence) I took 4 "pure science" courses"........... "It impresses the Admissions Committee that you can take a couple of courses at the same time and achieve A's on them while holding down a full-time job."

If you have already passed the minimum GPA threshold it might help to take part time courses to shine a bit brighter, but if your marks aren't very high taking part time courses doesn't help as the formula used to calculate GPA only considers courses taken during a full course load (5 courses or more) for most (if not all) schools. 

The author also writes "The Medical School evaluates your application under two broad questions: * Will the individual be a good physician? * Will the individual be able to get through medical school successfully?.....The answer to both questions must be, "Yes," in order for you to be accepted......If the Board finds the answer to part "a" (above) to be "No", then you're out of luck. If it's "Yes", then it goes on to part "b" below:"

He lists the "will you be a good physician question as the first one" the admissions committee looks at, and only then do they look at the "will you be able to get through med school based on past academic performance" question. I don't think that's true of any med school in Canada. I think they all look at your undergrad GPA first, their websites explicitly give formulas on how they calculate it, and if you don't meet the minimum cut off they trash your application as it doesn't matter how compassionate a person you are.  

Frankly I would have to do a lot of work to demonstrate both my academic ability and personal characteristics...the academics I could do by redoing a few years of undergrad, which I could actually enjoy I think. As for the personal characteristics, it seems like a lot of applicants do this by volunteering in Africa or somewhere for a month. I think it would be a lot more meaningful for me personally and a lot more impressive to the admissions committee if I demonstrated the right character by being a medic in a battle zone. I can't think of any alternative that would be more impressive.  

Although all these challenges make it seem like getting into med school (in Canada anyway) is very unlikely for me. Wish I had actually had it in my head when i started uni and not when i was just about to finish grad school. 

Anyway, becoming an engineering officer might be a more realistic alternative....at least i hope it would be exciting as that's the reason i would be doing it. 

Cheers.


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## Antoine (18 Dec 2009)

Be aware that the weight put on the different part of your application (GPA, MCAT, volunteering, undergraduate and graduate degree, leadership in activity outside school, multi tasking, age,  out of province candidate, how many university you did apply to (yes, they know it), interview, QI exams) change from university to university and year to year. 

If I were you, I'll go to the recruiting centre and if possible get information about med school for officers, is there any quotas for this year, any spot in med school specially for CF members,......

To conclude, I don't want to discourage you to get in med school and you should apply to all of them. You never know, you might be a good fit for one university and meanwhile fill up your CV with experiences that are of values for them but keep realistic about your capacities. However, having a plan B is a good idea.

I hope a medical officer from this board could help you more than I can.

Wish You Success.


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## ip (1 Jan 2010)

I am a Reg F MO.  10 years of time in.  I joined through MOTP.

As far as I can see, you have a few options:

1.  Apply to medical school as a civilian.  Get accepted.  Start medical school and apply to MOTP after your first year of school.  You will then have your tuition covered, plus you will get a stipend (2 Lt salary).  You must do a Family Medicine residency after medical school (while getting a Lt salary).  After your residency, your obligatory service is 4 years.  You will also have a chance to apply for specialty training after serving 2-3 years as a General Duty Medical Officer. (e.g.  I am studying to be an Internist/Intensivist at McMaster at the moment.  However, these spots are limited and they depend on the CF's needs.  Furthermore, there is an internal competition for these spots and you also need to be accepted by the civilian university. )

2.  Join as a Reg F Engineer Officer, as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer).  Chances are good that you will be accepted because you have an advanced degree in this field.  It takes about two years of training before you will be fully qualified and posted to a regiment.  There is always a 30-40% chance that you may fail this training (from what my engineer  friends tell me).   Once you are posted to the regiment, you will need probably about 3-4 years of time in, before starting medical school, through MMTP.  You will need 3-4 years to build up your resume (good Personnel Evaluation Reports, at least one deployment, etc.) in order to be competitive.   As you can see, this is a long road and will take a minimum of 6-7 years if all goes well.  If you do not apply through MMTP, you can try to apply on your own, get accepted, and then ask for a voluntary release from the CF. 

3.  Join as a Reg F Med Tech.  To be quite frank, I am not sure that you will be a good fit.  Are you prepared to spend at least 3-4 years as a private, being told what to do at all times, and not being paid very well?  If you are prepare to do this, you can have a very rewarding time.  I have worked with numerous NCMs and NCOs with university degrees and most of them are simply outstanding. Once again, it will take you at least 2-3 years to go through all the training and be qualified as a QL3 Med Tech.  The training is actually quite good and the last bit is done with the BC Justice Institute.  You will get the same training that a civilian paramedic gets.

4.  Join the Res F, either Officer or NCM.  You can still apply to medical schools through MMTP.  But once again, to make yourself competitive, you will need to stay active with your reserve unit, have very good PERs, and it always helps if you have a deployment under your belt.  I know at least three Res F Med Techs that were accepted by MMTP.  I think this is your best bet.

There are a few problems with your plan:

1.  The MO trade is almost full.  We have a lot of success recruiting in the last few years and we are reaching our PML (Preferred Manning Level).

2.  To be honest I am not too impressed with your posted message.  If you are just trying to use the CF to get into medical school, people will see through that and you will never be supported.  Also, you need to remember that regardless of your trade, you need to be a soldier/officer first.  General military training is never a waste of your time.  I was a MO at an infantry battalion with two deployments in Kandahar.  I am by no means an expert in the field.  But in order to have credibility with your colleagues and subordinates, you have  to be at least competent, know how to take care of yourself and your troops, and safe.

Bill


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## ip (1 Jan 2010)

Correction to my previous post.  The three Res F Med Techs that are now in medical school, I think only one of them is going through MMTP, the other two applied on their own.


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## mrmojo (2 Jan 2010)

Thanks for the very useful reply Bill.


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## Antoine (13 Jan 2010)

Thanks Bill for your answers.

I have a lot of admiration for Med Doc in the military, that was my dream when I was younger but didn't work out for me.

Thanks to stick with the CF and to take care of our CF members.

Regards,


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