# Short Days



## Lil VooDoo (3 Mar 2016)

Good Day,
Im trying to write a memo to request short days for this month but cant find anything anywhere about shorts. The biggest problem I have run into is that I have no idea where to find the Pers number code thing for the top of the memo. Thanks for any help you can give!


----------



## sarahsmom (3 Mar 2016)

http://vcds.mil.ca/cos-cem/Resources/L1Admin/COS%20VCDS%20CR/VCDS%20File%20Plan_long.pdf

This may help with the file number.


----------



## McG (3 Mar 2016)

Use your service number followed by "(pers)"


----------



## Pusser (3 Mar 2016)

Memo for short leave?  Why not just do up a leave pass and explain in person to your supervisor (who signs the pass as "reccomending") why you want it?  Is your unit so large that folks can't simply talk about stuff?

Short Leave is pretty much as the CO's discretion - The Leave Manual gives some guidelines, but there is a lot of leeway.


----------



## dangerboy (3 Mar 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Memo for short leave?  Why not just do up a leave pass and explain in person to your supervisor (who signs the pass as "reccomending") why you want it?  Is your unit so large that folks can't simply talk about stuff?
> 
> Short Leave is pretty much as the CO's discretion - The Leave Manual gives some guidelines, but there is a lot of leeway.



Maybe it is an Army thing but every unit I have been in, if a troops wants leave outside of designated leave blocks it has always required a memo explaining why.


----------



## Pusser (3 Mar 2016)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Maybe it is an Army thing but every unit I have been in, if a troops wants leave outside of designated leave blocks it has always required a memo explaining why.



It's certainly not a Navy thing (at least not in my experience).  I have never submitted a memo requesting Short Leave, nor have I ever received one from a subordinate.  The funny thing is that earlier today I was in another thread where folks were dumping on the Navy for treating its personnel badly, particularly with over-administration...


----------



## Biohazardxj (3 Mar 2016)

Lil VooDoo said:
			
		

> Good Day,
> Im trying to write a memo to request short days for this month but cant find anything anywhere about shorts. The biggest problem I have run into is that I have no idea where to find the Pers number code thing for the top of the memo. Thanks for any help you can give!



Canadian Forces Leave Policy Manual is what you are looking for.  If I am not mistaken, been a while since I looked at file numbers, I think it is 5500-1   When in doubt, ask your clerk.  That is what they are there for.


----------



## BinRat55 (6 Mar 2016)

Short leave isn't an "entitlement" per se. Therefore the soldier doesn't ASK for it - a good supervisor or Tp Comd should request the short leave on behalf of the person(s) for an earned break - much extra effort / hours put in, that sort of thing. If someone has to ask for short, a Sr NCO isn't doing their job... in MY opinion.

Short leave is very much abused these days and also under used!


----------



## Pusser (6 Mar 2016)

There's nothing wrong with an individual asking for Short Leave.


----------



## PuckChaser (6 Mar 2016)

Absolutely not, but it's also not an entitlement, completely CO's discretion.


----------



## BinRat55 (7 Mar 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with an individual asking for Short Leave.



I do agree with you Pusser - however what I'm saying is that one should not even have the chance to ask for it - if we are on top of things and a member deserves it, we should be "offering" it. That's all. Short leave isn't given "just because" and often I see members request short leave this time of year due to poor planning (not a generalization I promise - not everyone who runs out of leave has planned poorly) however this is not an excuse for short.

From the Leave Policy manual (SHORT LEAVE)

The purpose of short leave is to provide a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force on Class B or C Reserve Service with time away from their duties to:
 •compensate, in part, for long hours worked during extended periods of operations/training or working on normal days of rest;
 •provide members with time away from their duties to conduct urgent personal business; or
 •reward exemplary work.


----------



## Lumber (7 Mar 2016)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Short leave is very much abused these days and also under used!



Agreed. Interstingly, from what I've seen/heard, its use is very different between the different elements, but that its use is somewhat homogenous within an element. For example, 4 years aboard ships in Halifax, neither I nor any of my friends aboard any of the other ships received short days as part of our Christmas leave plan. However, just across the harbour in Shearwater (as well as in Greenwood and Comox, I discovered), everyone in the Air Force received 2 short days as part of their Christmas leave plan. When I asked my pilot buddies why, they just said "I dunno, they just always do that."



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> It's certainly not a Navy thing (at least not in my experience).  I have never submitted a memo requesting Short Leave, nor have I ever received one from a subordinate.  The funny thing is that earlier today I was in another thread where folks were dumping on the Navy for treating its personnel badly, particularly with over-administration...



Which thread would that be, may I ask?  :threat:



			
				BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Short leave is very much abused these days and also under used!


----------



## BinRat55 (7 Mar 2016)

I am aware of units (first hand) where their CO actually requires the members of that unit to take 2 short per month. Unequivocally. Conversely, I was with a unit where I begged, pleaded and proved in writing three different ways only to get denied. Never knew what short leave even looked like for years!


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (7 Mar 2016)

It is very common practice in the Army to require a memo from the individual for Short Leave requests outside of the blanket ones given to a complete unit. The CO holds the authority for granting Short Leave. Following an exercise it is common for an army unit to be granted Short Leave en masse. It is also common to have it added to Christmas leave. While the leave policies give some examples of situations that might qualify for Short Leave, ultimately it is the Commanding Officer's decision.

As a Squadron Commander I would expect to see a memorandum from a soldier requesting Short Leave with the leave pass attached if the request fell outside of one of these blanket periods. I could not grant the leave, so neither could I deny it. I could, however, support or not support the request while forwarding it to the CO. The memo, signed by the soldier, would explain the reasons for the request. I would fully expect to see an accompanying minute from the soldier' s supervisor(s) supporting the request (or not) and adding some details. So, if Corporal Bloggins was requesting a day of Short Leave to be able to attend his Grade 6 daughter's all-day Basketball tournament in Moncton on a Wednesday I would expect to see that written in the memo. The Troop Leader for the Cpl would add a minute to the minute supporing the request, noting that the Cpl in question is a hard-working member of the Sqn who willingly volunteers for additional duties on weekends such as he did for the Pioneer Days work-party in the summer and over Christmas leave in the duty room. The minute would also state that the Troop Leader had checked the leave records and that the Cpl only had five days of Annual Leave left that would be used at March Break. Finally, the minute would remind me that would not be in the field that day and that the Cpl's absence would not affect the Troop unduly. I would then add my own short minute to the CO fully supporting the request and expect to see it granted as it fit the CAF and unit policies and answered any potential questions that the CO would have.

Behind the scenes a Lieutenant has learned about the leave policy and memo-writing under the guidance of the Squadron 2IC and I have learned something about my Lieutenant's attention to man-management. This administration may seem tedious, but it ensures that leave policies and other such matters are handled with some consistency and fairness across a unit. This is importat for the maintenance of good morale and is not, therefore, merely red tape. 

If you're in the army, its what you do.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (7 Mar 2016)

So... it's not just a text to my boss saying "can I get Monday off for the family day I missed while instructing in Kingston last month?"

Oops.


----------



## sidemount (7 Mar 2016)

We call those "under the table" days


----------



## Stoker (7 Mar 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Agreed. Interstingly, from what I've seen/heard, its use is very different between the different elements, but that its use is somewhat homogenous within an element. For example, 4 years aboard ships in Halifax, neither I nor any of my friends aboard any of the other ships received short days as part of our Christmas leave plan. However, just across the harbour in Shearwater (as well as in Greenwood and Comox, I discovered), everyone in the Air Force received 2 short days as part of their Christmas leave plan. When I asked my pilot buddies why, they just said "I dunno, they just always do that."
> 
> Which thread would that be, may I ask?  :threat:



That;s funny as every year on my ship the CO granted 2 short for Christmas.


----------



## MARS (7 Mar 2016)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> That;s funny as every year on my ship the CO granted 2 short for Christmas.



Wasn't there a year, maybe 2 years ago, that I didn't grant the 2 short?  I recall sometime circa 2013/14 that the direction from MARLANT was CMARL was specifically NOT granting short days and COs were encouraged to be judicious in their use at Xmas.  It was also around the same time that the repeated warnings about accumulating leave was only to be for operational reasons - and our 180-plus days at sea was not considered "operational reasons". Maybe I still did grant them because I didn't give a shit what HQ thought.

That was the year we had to start using short leave for the ship's Xmas party...remember?


----------



## Stoker (7 Mar 2016)

MARS said:
			
		

> Wasn't there a year, maybe 2 years ago, that I didn't grant the 2 short?  I recall sometime circa 2013/14 that the direction from MARLANT was CMARL was specifically NOT granting short days and COs were encouraged to be judicious in their use at Xmas.  It was also around the same time that the repeated warnings about accumulating leave was only to be for operational reasons - and our 180-plus days at sea was not considered "operational reasons". Maybe I still did grant them because I didn't give a crap what HQ thought.
> 
> That was the year we had to start using short leave for the ship's Xmas party...remember?



Hey, that's right. I thought you did though. I know last year the new CO did. I agree through if someone has a lot of leave not taken for whatever reason, annual should be taken first. Nice to hear from you.


----------



## Lumber (7 Mar 2016)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> That;s funny as every year on my ship the CO granted 2 short for Christmas.



Ok, so maybe I didn't have friends on _all_ the ships. I guess I'm not quite as popular as I like tot hink...  ;D


----------



## DAA (7 Mar 2016)

In 33 years of service, every Unit that I have ever served with were granted "2-days Short Leave" as part of the Christmas/New Years Block leave period.  I just figured it was the civilian equivalent of the company giving you a free Turkey for Christmas and never paid much attention to it!


----------



## kratz (7 Mar 2016)

The Christmas season that Chief Stoker and MARS talk about is the year the PS raised an unholy stink about too much time off for CAF members and it was not in-line with their benefits...or something to that effect. Pusser can outline the situation more accurately. Anyway, research was conducted, and it was found the Navy assuming "sliders" on Friday afternoons too often (base side and ship borne), to the point most considered it "an entitlement". In reality, all units were doing the same thing, which caused problems conducting any operational business after lunch on Fridays. When the Admiral cracked down that year, that same message referenced a number of "buckshee days" including "sliders" and it affected holiday leave for many. In the example of MARS' ship, they were fortunate to not be as harshly affected.


----------



## dapaterson (7 Mar 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> In 33 years of service, every Unit that I have ever served with were granted "2-days Short Leave" as part of the Christmas/New Years Block leave period.  I just figured it was the civilian equivalent of the company giving you a free Turkey for Christmas and never paid much attention to it!



No, the two days special leave is the turkey equivalent.

Two days short is an additional bonus on top of that.


----------



## DAA (7 Mar 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No, the two days special leave is the turkey equivalent.
> Two days short is an additional bonus on top of that.



Awesome point!   So we could probably say we got both a "turkey" (Short Leave) and a "ham" (Special Leave)!       ;D


----------



## Pusser (7 Mar 2016)

The direction this year in CF Europe was that everyone got two days short for each of both December and January (as well as two days special for Christmas/New Year's).

It really does vary from unit to unit and command to command, but remains within the discretion of the CO.  I also remember a time when ships did not get Short Leave at Christmas, but on the other hand, how many "Sunday routines" do we see in foreign ports?


----------



## caocao (7 Mar 2016)

I am pretty sure that 4 shorts for xmas/new year's leave is a big no no.  Don't have access to the regs right now but it should be in the leave manual.


----------



## George Wallace (7 Mar 2016)

caocao said:
			
		

> I am pretty sure that 4 shorts for xmas/new year's leave is a big no no.  Don't have access to the regs right now but it should be in the leave manual.



You can look up the Regs.

You are allowed Two (2) Short per month.

Christmas/New Years would permit the use of Two (2) Short Lve in December and another Two (2) Short Lve in January.  Perfectly legal.


----------



## Monsoon (7 Mar 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You can look up the Regs.
> 
> You are allowed Two (2) Short per month.
> 
> Christmas/New Years would permit the use of Two (2) Short Lve in December and another Two (2) Short Lve in January.  Perfectly legal.


You're both right (sort of) - the previous version of the leave manual specifically prohibited granting two sets of short leave in the same leave period. This means that the common practice of doing exactly that over Christmas was technically not permitted. The last leave manual revision eliminated this prohibition.


----------



## Pusser (8 Mar 2016)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> You're both right (sort of) - the previous version of the leave manual specifically prohibited granting two sets of short leave in the same leave period. This means that the common practice of doing exactly that over Christmas was technically not permitted. The last leave manual revision eliminated this prohibition.



The way around that was to issue two leave passes:  one for December and one for January.  This year, we were told that such administrative subterfuge was unnecessary.  The rule is that one is limited to two days short per calendar month.  If a leave pass covers two calendar months, then two days Short Leave for each of them can be included on the same leave pass.


----------



## BinRat55 (8 Mar 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> The way around that was to issue two leave passes:  one for December and one for January.  This year, we were told that such administrative subterfuge was unnecessary.  The rule is that one is limited to two days short per calendar month.  *If a leave pass covers two calendar months, then two days Short Leave for each of them can be included on the same leave pass*.



In my experience staffing leave passes and taking Christmas block leave with a myriad of combat arms units, this has always been the case. I can remember maybe several years ago doing two seperate leave passes, but not recently...


----------



## CountDC (9 Mar 2016)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> You're both right (sort of) - the previous version of the leave manual specifically prohibited granting two sets of short leave in the same leave period. This means that the common practice of doing exactly that over Christmas was technically not permitted. The last leave manual revision eliminated this prohibition.



hmmmm - don't recall that.  I recall prior that you couldn't have the two short leave periods connected such as 29/30 Nov and 1/2 Dec.  I did one leave pass indicating the short leave dates with ann/wknds between them.   oops?


----------



## George Wallace (9 Mar 2016)

CountDC said:
			
		

> hmmmm - don't recall that.  I recall prior that you couldn't have the two short leave periods connected such as 29/30 Nov and 1/2 Dec.  I did one leave pass indicating the short leave dates with ann/wknds between them.   oops?




 ???

Every Lve Pass I submitted had two dates on them: Start date and End date.

Then Lve was broken down as to how many days of each type of Lve was being used; never which specific day that type of Lve was being used on.


----------



## ModlrMike (9 Mar 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> Every Lve Pass I submitted had two dates on them: Start date and End date.
> 
> Then Lve was broken down as to how many days of each type of Lve was being used; never which specific day that type of Lve was being used on.



I would agree, however units frequently promulgate block leave plans with quite detailed specifics at to what leave is taken on what day, particularly over the Christmas period.


----------



## DAA (9 Mar 2016)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> You're both right (sort of) - the previous version of the leave manual specifically prohibited granting two sets of short leave in the same leave period. This means that the common practice of doing exactly that over Christmas was technically not permitted. The last leave manual revision eliminated this prohibition.



 :goodpost:

"9.1.02 Reckoning Time ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap9 )

Short leave is reckoned in days to a maximum of two days per calendar month.
These two days do not have to be authorized on consecutive days and may be authorized in half-day increments."

The problem we always seem to face, is convincing the CoC that the above is in fact the new policy currently in effect.  But yet, it still seems to lead to an "internal" conflict, just because someone says "That's not how I interpret this." and it get's left at that.    :facepalm:


----------



## sidemount (9 Mar 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> Every Lve Pass I submitted had two dates on them: Start date and End date.
> 
> Then Lve was broken down as to how many days of each type of Lve was being used; never which specific day that type of Lve was being used on.


If you are using monitor mass to create the leave pass, you get to decide which days are specificially short/special...etc.


----------



## DAA (9 Mar 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> If you are using monitor mass to create the leave pass, you get to decide which days are specificially short/special...etc.



MM is a bottom end user tool and doesn't interact upstream with HRMS.  At the end of the day, it's all about the Clerk who will be inputting the Leave Pass into HRMS.  If HRMS won't accept the dates based on the leave codes input for whatever reason, then chances are, the leave pass will be returned for corrective action.


----------



## sidemount (9 Mar 2016)

Heaven forbid the military uses programs that can interact with each other.


----------



## SupersonicMax (9 Mar 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> Heaven forbid the military uses programs that can interact with each other.



Or clerks show a little adapdability and flexibility and, provided everything checks out, tricks the system to reflect the leave of the individuals, instead of burdening the CoC and individuals.


----------



## ballz (9 Mar 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> MM is a bottom end user tool and doesn't interact upstream with HRMS.  At the end of the day, it's all about the Clerk who will be inputting the Leave Pass into HRMS.  If HRMS won't accept the dates based on the leave codes input for whatever reason, then chances are, the leave pass will be returned for corrective action.



Clerks have been managing to enter one Christmas leave pass with 3-4 shor days into HRMS at 2 RCR now for at least the past 4x Christmas's. Whether that's because HRMS is letting them enter it as is, or whether they are doing some computer trickery (entering it as 2 leave passes) is unknown to me.



			
				sidemount said:
			
		

> Heaven forbid the military uses programs that can interact with each other.



Oh just you wait, "Guardian" is the CAF's upcoming gongshow ;D


----------



## DAA (9 Mar 2016)

ballz said:
			
		

> Clerks have been managing to enter one Christmas leave pass with 3-4 shor days into HRMS at 2 RCR now for at least the past 4x Christmas's. Whether that's because HRMS is letting them enter it as is, or whether they are doing some computer trickery (entering it as 2 leave passes) is unknown to me.



You must have some pretty "dedicated" clerical staff, who can see the light in supporting Unit Ops.   Hard to find those kind of people these days.


----------



## dapaterson (9 Mar 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> Heaven forbid the military uses programs that can interact with each other.



They do.  One is the authoritative data source.  The other reports on that data.  Not hard to grasp.


----------



## BinRat55 (10 Mar 2016)

I think closer to the point is, as DAA said - reckoning time for short is 2 days per month (which can be taken in half day increments) in ONE calender month. Sometimes a leave pass will span 2 calendar months. I have done many leave passes in MM with 4 short days taken between July and August and Dec and Jan. In fact, if you try to take short over the 2 day entitlement in MM in the one month, it will not allow you to proceed with the leave pass.


----------



## ballz (10 Mar 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> You must have some pretty "dedicated" clerical staff, who can see the light in supporting Unit Ops.   Hard to find those kind of people these days.



Must be that. They definitely pulled a few all-nighters and slept in the stand-easy so that a handful of grunts could deploy short-notice on Op PROVISION and spend a month or two in some fancy foreign hotels. :nod:


----------



## CountDC (12 Mar 2016)

ballz said:
			
		

> Clerks have been managing to enter one Christmas leave pass with 3-4 shor days into HRMS at 2 RCR now for at least the past 4x Christmas's. Whether that's because HRMS is letting them enter it as is, or whether they are doing some computer trickery (entering it as 2 leave passes) is unknown to me.
> 
> Oh just you wait, "Guardian" is the CAF's upcoming gongshow ;D



No trickery needed - you just ignore the warning that pops up letting you know you have entered more than 2 days.  Christmass leave passes are already enough of a pain taking 3 entries without adding another entry. There are however some clerks that still insist that 2 leave passes are needed and will enter them seperately.  Waste of time.

Although it is correct that in general we do leave passes indicating the From and To dates covering the entire period if you look at the pass itself you can see that it is set up for you to enter the from and to dates for each leave type.  Prior to MM when I did my leave pass on computer or typewriter I did exactly that for my Christmas Leave passes to show 2 days short in Dec and 2 days short in Jan.  Made it a lot easier to win the argument with the clerks that couldn't see pass the number 2.


----------

