# General CFRC Questions – Regular Forces



## RocketScientist (30 Jun 2015)

Hello All. I have frequented this board for a few months now, learning and gathering information, and have visited and searched through hundreds of posts (especially the Recruiting Office section). I have found the members to be quite informative and friendly, which makes for a good experience.

Well, having completed my Masters, I am now seriously considering pursuing my plans to join the CF. I still have many questions that I need answers to, and I have been in contact the local Canadian Forces recruitment center for a meeting. The MCpl in charge has asked me to provide him with a list of questions and/or come in next week to discuss them. I am copy-pasting my email to him below in hopes that I can get more information from the general board members here. This way, I will know if I have to ask him any further clarifying questions or not:

-------------------------
MCpl .......,

I have Rugby training tonight from 6:30PM until 9:30PM. Other than those hours, you may call me at any time at the number provided.
However, to save us time, below is a list of my questions: 

Background information:

I currently work at an Aerospace & Defense Engineering company in Mississauga, ON, and have recently completed my Masters in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Toronto. I also hold a Bachelor of Applied Science degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering from the University of Toronto. In addition to this, I have around 6 years of professional experience in the defense and aerospace industries. The reason I am stating this will become apparent below.

Questions:

1. I am interested in serving as a part-time reserve officer close to home (Mississauga/Toronto), while maintaining my full-time occupation as an Engineer. I would like to know how recruits in my situation typically manage to take the large amount of time required for BMQ/BMOQ and subsequent training off from their jobs. Ideally, I would like not to have to resign from my current position to pursue a CF part-time career (my family is reliant on my income, and I do not believe the CF pay for trainees and 2nd Lt. alone will be nearly sufficient to provide for them).

2. I have been looking at a few of the positions offered, and would like to discuss the roles and responsibilities of each in more detail so as to determine which role best fits my interest/qualifications. This is something we can do over the telephone or I can come in on Monday. These roles are:
- Engineer Officer (currently my top choice)
- Aerospace Engineering Officer
- Infantry Officer
- Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Officer

Also, I understand that the Pilot role is not offered to direct entry reserve candidates. However, this is a role for which I will consider joining the full-time regular force. Are the Canadian Forces currently recruiting for this role?

3. As per my understanding, all direct entry officers enter the CF as 2nd Lt. upon completion of the BMOQ. Is this a hard-line rule, or are there exceptions? If yes, do I qualify for an exception (given my experience and academic background)?

4. This is a personal one and may be unique: I am a practicing Muslim, which means I pray 5 times a day, fast during the month of Ramadan, and eat strictly Halal foods. I am hoping that other practicing Muslims have gone through the recruitment process before me and joined the Canadian Forces. Do CF bases and training centers (especially CFLRS) have provisions to cater to these religious requirements? The 5 daily prayers can usually be managed within a few minutes of breaks (not much longer than most bathroom breaks), and I have never had trouble fitting them into a busy day. However, being able to fast in the month of Ramadan, and the availability of Halal food, are issues that are of great personal importance to me, and will determine whether I can proceed or not.

Thank you very much for your time and patience.

Sincerely,
-------------------------

I have searched through the forum and have found somewhat decent answers to most of these questions. However, I would like to know the answers with certainty, as things stand now. My understanding of the answers is as follows:

1. I could not find decent answers to this question.
2. I did find a lot of information on the roles (which is why Engineer Officer is my current choice), but I am not sure which role I qualify for best.
3. In rare circumstances, a new DEO may be awarded the rank of Captain. However, this typically requires previous MILITARY experience. So, not so sure that I would qualify. i ask this because, as implied in the email, the online 2nd Lt. pay scale does not match my current pay scale, which is the main reason I want to join as a part-time Officer.
4. Some bases (not known which) do provide Halal provisions and rations, and breaks for a few minutes from class/training time are ok (as long as most bathroom breaks). I could not find sufficient information regarding fasting in Ramadan, however (FYI, in war-time, or on the front lines, we Muslims are exempted from fasting).

Thanks for your time and patience.


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## Loachman (30 Jun 2015)

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> I am copy-pasting my email to him below in hopes that I can get more information from the general board members here.



"General board members" are not permitted to post in the "Ask a CAF Recruiter" forum.

If you wish, I shall move this to a more appropriate forum. Recruiters may or may not be able to answer Reserve-specific questions, and others can answer all of your questions.


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## Master Corporal Steven (30 Jun 2015)

Good day ACE_Engr,

We have a recruiting website at http://www.forces.ca/ which will answer almost all of your questions. Service in the primary reserve is part time and there is a pay guide on the website along with videos on life in the primary reserve force. After reviewing the information provided on our website if you still have questions that have not been answered then submit another post on this thread. 

You can also go to the contact us section of the recruiting website: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/contactus-73 and using your postal code lookup all the primary reserve units in your area along with the occupations available for application within your area.

I have served in the primary reserve for over 10 years.


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## RocketScientist (30 Jun 2015)

Loachman said:
			
		

> If you wish, I shall move this to a more appropriate forum


Yes, Loachman, please move it to a more appropriate section. Thank you.

MCpl Steven. Thank you. I am currently awaiting the recruiter's response.


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## mariomike (30 Jun 2015)

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> However, being able to fast in the month of Ramadan, and the availability of Halal food, are issues that are of great personal importance to me, and will determine whether I can proceed or not.



You may find some of these discussions helpful ( in case you have not already read them ).

Halal
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+halal&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=RjSTVZzSF42o_ALEwoDYBQ&gws_rd=ssl

Religion in the Canadian Forces
http://army.ca/forums/threads/25815.0;nowap


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## DAA (2 Jul 2015)

I'll give it a shot............

1.  Being able to balance a full-time career with part-time CF employment can only be answered by you!  BMQ/BMOQ crses are conducted on weekends to facilitate those who are not able to take large blocks of time off from their primary jobs.  

2.  You would have to find out which Reserve Units and which occupations are currently available/hiring in your local area.  When joining the Reserves, you just can't pick an occupation at random.  The CF is "always" recruiting and processing applications for Regular Force Pilots.

3.  All DEO Officers are initially enrolled as OCdt's and will be promoted to 2Lt (or higher, dependent upon occupation and entry plan) upon successful completion of BMOQ.  There are exceptions but these are few and far between.

4.  As far as religion is concerned, the CF makes every effort to "accommodate" the religious needs of individuals, however, operational/training priorities can and sometimes do conflict with this.  They will also attempt to accommodate your dietary requirements where possible but don't expect this to occur regularly.


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## runormal (2 Jul 2015)

1. You simply have to ask for the time off. There isn't anything the CF provides your employer or anything. You might need to look into taking leave with out pay. You can sell and explain to your employer the benefits I.E "leadership, problem solving, working under pressure etc" and see if that helps sway their mind. However depending on the trade you want this will mean multiple summers. I was simply lucky that my employer (Grocery Store) gave me a month off for SQ and hired me back for the following summer knowing that I might leave at any minute for my DP 1 course (I found out 4 days before the course started  >). My other friends were  not as a lucky as I was, most ending up doing temp work or didn't work at all. 

2. Figure out which units are in your geographical area and what trades they are hiring for
http://www.forces.ca/en/centres/findarecruiter-110 

3. I don't know enough to comment

4. From another thread
http://army.ca/forums/threads/30884.225
"A number of folks here have been saying that being a vegetarian in the CF is not an issue.  Wrong.  It is an issue.  Yes, we all have stories of vegetarians we know that have managed and that's fine, but it can be difficult to maintain a vegetarian diet in the CF and no one should be misled into thinking that it's "not an issue."  As I've mentioned before, the only guarantees with regard to diet in the CF  at this point are for medical reasons.  Yes, most kitchens will try to accommodate folks as much as they can, but there are no guarantees and no regulatory requirement to do so.  Maintaining a vegetarian diet will mostly be an individual responsibility and will take forethought and planning.  Sometimes, the only vegetarian choice from the kitchen may be the potatoes...

On a similar note, if you're "hard core" vegan, vegetarian, kosher, halal, etc, and cannot eat anything that has been touched by a utensil that has been used for something else, you can forget that, because that's just not happening.  We do not maintain vegan, vegetarian, kosher, halal, etc. kitchens."


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## RocketScientist (2 Jul 2015)

Thank you all. I spoke with a recruiter over the phone today, and will be visiting the Denison Armoury on Tuesday for further answers/information. Once I have the info, I will post it here for future recruits/information seekers.



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> BMQ/BMOQ crses are conducted on weekends to facilitate those who are not able to take large blocks of time off from their primary jobs.



I was under the impression this was no longer the case: that all BMQ/BMOQ courses were held full-time at the CFLRS. If weekend BMOQ is offered, that would be a HUGE positive for me. Do you know where I can find more info on this? (I'll be sure to Google it and ask the recruiter on Tuesday).

--------
I will also try and visit the Moss Park Armoury to learn more about possibly joining up as an Infantry Officer with jump training (I love skydiving, so why not give it a shot). Does anybody know the approx. percentage of people selected for jump school after BMOQ (the recruiter informed me that only 2% of those who apply for the Pilot trade make it, so clearly they keep these stats).


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## Harris (2 Jul 2015)

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> I was under the impression this was no longer the case: that all BMQ/BMOQ courses were held full-time at the CFLRS. If weekend BMOQ is offered, that would be a HUGE positive for me.
> 
> --------
> I will also try and visit the Moss Park Armoury to learn more about possibly joining up as an Infantry Officer with jump training (I love skydiving, so why not give it a shot). Does anybody know the approx. percentage of people selected for jump school after BMOQ (the recruiter informed me that only 2% of those who apply for the Pilot trade make it, so clearly they keep these stats).



BMOQ is offered on weekends, but your trade crse(s) are not.  You will still need to take training during the summer (time dependant on trade).

I'm not in the units in Toronto, but my understanding is that they only get a very few jump spots a year.  Who gets to go is/should be based on merit and taskings, so don't expect to get a course for the first few years at least.


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## RocketScientist (4 Jul 2015)

Harris said:
			
		

> BMOQ is offered on weekends, but your trade crse(s) are not.  You will still need to take training during the summer (time dependant on trade).



Thank you for the info, Harris. Is there a webpage that lists the lengths of the trade courses? Or does anybody know how long the Engineer Officer and Infantry Officer trade courses are? I _think_ I remember reading somewhere that the Engineer Officer trade course is 3 weeks and held in Gagetown.

Also. At what point does one graduate from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt, at the end of BMOQ or upon completion of a trade course? I read that you become a 2nd Lt. once you are considered "fully trained", but I am not sure what fully trained means in this context.


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## DAA (6 Jul 2015)

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> Thank you for the info, Harris. Is there a webpage that lists the lengths of the trade courses? Or does anybody know how long the Engineer Officer and Infantry Officer trade courses are? I _think_ I remember reading somewhere that the Engineer Officer trade course is 3 weeks and held in Gagetown.
> 
> Also. At what point does one graduate from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt, at the end of BMOQ or upon completion of a trade course? I read that you become a 2nd Lt. once you are considered "fully trained", but I am not sure what fully trained means in this context.



Promotion to 2Lt normally occurs upon Graduation from BMOQ.  Promotion to Lt normally occurs once you have completed both your environmental and occupational training and have been a 2Lt for a minimum of one year.


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## runormal (6 Jul 2015)

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> Thank you for the info, Harris. Is there a webpage that lists the lengths of the trade courses? Or does anybody know how long the Engineer Officer and Infantry Officer trade courses are? I _think_ I remember reading somewhere that the Engineer Officer trade course is 3 weeks and held in Gagetown.
> 
> Also. At what point does one graduate from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt, at the end of BMOQ or upon completion of a trade course? I read that you become a 2nd Lt. once you are considered "fully trained", but I am not sure what fully trained means in this context.



Ask the unit you are applying to, they will have the most up to date information.... Then once you get the answers post them on here for other applicants. 

I highly doubt that that Officer Trade course is only 3 weeks. I know friends who there as reserve NCM's for a much longer amount of time.


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## RocketScientist (8 Jul 2015)

Folks,

I had a phone conversation and then a personal meeting with the recruiter, and got all my original and new questions answered. For the purpose of spreading information, I am posting the answers here. There is certainly a lack of information on the part-time Reserve Officer role online (most information here is geared towards Reg Force), so hopefully this helps others.

-----------------
*1. What are the stages of training, and their durations?*

For part-time reserve officers, the mandatory stages of training are as follows:
Basic Military Officers Qualification (BMOQ) : Done part-time on alternating weekends (Friday night to Sunday night) for 6-7 months. Can also be done full-time. This is pretty much the same course as the BMQ.
Basic Military Officers Qualification Land (BMOQ-L) : 10 week course, can only be done full-time in the summer. Is broken into 2 5 week modules so it can be done over 2 summers.
Trades Course (aka Phase III) : 12-14 weeks (depending upon trade), can only be done full-time

In addition to this basic qualification training, you may volunteer for further training (French language, jump course, etc), which may or may not be offered part-time.

For me, personally, this is the single greatest hurdle. I don't see my employer agreeing to allow me to take months off from work every year.

*2. Once training is complete, what is the time commitment?*

For part-time Reservists, the commitment is 1 weeknight per week for 3 hours, and 1 weekend per month. There are sometimes opportunities to serve additional time during the week.

*3. What are Class A, B, and C Reserves?*

Class A reserves are part-time Reservists during normal working conditions (i.e., non full-time training)
Class B are full-time reservists or part-time reservists on full-time training (for example, during BMOQ-L)
Class C are reservists on deployment (this makes them temporarily equivalent to regular force members)

*4. How does the pay work?*

Class A and B reservists either get paid for a full day (6 hours or more) or half day (less than 6 hours). So, the 1 weeknight per week (3 hours) counts as half-day, and the 1 weekend per month (2.5 days) is 2 full-days and 1 half-day.  Here's the pay-scale: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/officer-class-a-b-service-rates.page

Class C reservists get paid a salary like Reg Force members. http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-class-c-officer-rates.page

*5. If I have a university undergraduate degree, what rank will I join as?*

The answer to this question was contrary to EVERYTHING I had read on this forum before. I made sure to ask him for clarification and he was certain this was the case.

With a relevant and recognized university undergraduate degree, I will get the rank of 2nd Lt. immediately after joining (yes, even before BMOQ). I will NOT be an Officer Cadet. Once I complete my basic three stages of training (BMOQ, BMOQ-L, Trades), I will immediately be promoted to Lt. 

*6. What if I need a vacation or some time off?*

For part-time reservists, vacation is unpaid (obviously). You can ask for time off from your superiors at any point, and it is usually not a big issue. However, if you require more than 3 months off, it becomes increasingly difficult as the time off has to be approved by an increasingly high ranking Officer (something you want to avoid).

*7. I am interested in getting parachute training. Can I only do that if I join the Infantry with an Airborne unit (such as the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada)?*

There is a difference between being parachute qualified and airborne qualified. Parachute qualification requires that you pass the jump course. Airborne qualification requires you to train as part of an airborne unit (para qualification + other related training). So, the parachute training course can be taken by any soldier, as long as they can qualify through the highly competitive selection process. Other than Infantry, you can find Engineers and even Armoured soldiers with parachute qualifications. However, parachute training does not make you an Airborne qualified soldier. Units that are qualified as Airborne train specifically for that job.

*8. I would like to know how recruits with full-time jobs typically manage to take the large amounts of time required for training off*

The part-time class of reservist is designed specifically with working or studying individuals in mind. Therefore, the CF does what it can to make sure your regular job is not affected during normal operation. This is why there is no mandatory commitment, and you will never be involuntarily transferred to a different unit or deployed, etc. However, there is no way around the mandatory training periods which require a full-time commitment, as they are vital training for soldiers (as the recruiter said, you can't fit 72 hours of training with sleep deprivation over the weekend). Therefore, it is up to the individual to come to an arrangement with their employer/academic institution for the required time off from work.

*9. Based on my qualifications, which role would you recommend for me; Engineer Officer, Infantry Officer, or Aerospace Engineering Officer?*

You meet the necessary background for all these roles, and perhaps are best suited to an Engineering role. However, it is not just about what you are qualified for. It depends more on what you WANT to do. The Canadian Forces will train you to perform your role regardless of background, so pick what you are interested in. If you work as an engineer 9-5, 5 days a week, then ask yourself this: is that what you want to do on evenings and weekends as well? If yes, sign up as an engineer. If not, pick something else you like.

For me, my day job is very different from the CF Engineer Officer role. The role of Engineer Officer is very much field-based, whereas my regular job is lab/desk-based. Therefore, personally, I would still sign up as an Engineer Officer.

*10. I am a practicing Muslim, which means I pray 5 times a day, fast during the month of Ramadan, and eat strictly Halal foods. How would I manage these while in the CF?*

In the Canadian Forces, the needs of the military supersede the individuals' personal choices, and religion is considered a personal choice. However, the military does what it can to accommodate people of different faiths. For prayer during training, for example, you must speak with your instructors before training begins and provide them with a schedule. Then, they will certainly give you a few minutes to pray and return to the classroom/exercise, if possible. For example, one practicing Muslim in my instructor's class was regularly pulled from classroom/training at specific times and given a few minutes to pray. However, this is NOT a guarantee (and sometimes, it may be impossible).

Halal food is available at every base (it typically ends up being the same as vegetarian), so that is not an issue. The Canadian Forces takes nutrition very seriously. Sleep and rest are never guaranteed in the CF, but food and water are.

Fasting is a personal choice. The standards of performance will not be relaxed for an individual who chooses to fast. However, dehydration is a huge concern, especially in outdoor exercises, and will be held against you. 

*11. For part-time reservists in Toronto, where do the trainings take place?*

BMOQ - Fort York or Moss Park, Toronto
BMOQ-L - Meaford, ON
Trades Course - Typically in Gagetown, NB for Infantry and Engineers

*12. Will I get the opportunity to learn French?*

It is preferred that all officers be bilingual. In the Regular Force, most officers are. As a reservist, you are not required to be bilingual, but if you are interested, you will have the opportunity to learn French.

-----------------

That is all. Hope this helps someone.

As for me, I have to discuss this with my employer and family and make a decision. The next BMOQ starts in October, so I don't have much time to decide.

Comments, clarifications, and suggestions are welcomed.


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## dangerboy (8 Jul 2015)

Just a couple of points



			
				ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> Folks,
> 
> I had a phone conversation and then a personal meeting with the recruiter, and got all my original and new questions answered. For the purpose of spreading information, I am posting the answers here. There is certainly a lack of information on the part-time Reserve Officer role online (most information here is geared towards Reg Force), so hopefully this helps others.
> *7. I am interested in getting parachute training. Can I only do that if I join the Infantry with an Airborne unit (such as the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada)?*
> ...



Just some clarifications on wording.  The Queen's Own Rifles is not an Airborne unit, they are an Infantry unit with a jump task.  There are no Airborne units in Canada either Regular Force or Reserve.  Units with the jump task will have a percentage of the unit qualified to jump but not the entire unit.  It may seem like the same thing but it is not.



> *10. I am a practicing Muslim, which means I pray 5 times a day, fast during the month of Ramadan, and eat strictly Halal foods. How would I manage these while in the CF?*
> 
> In the Canadian Forces, the needs of the military supersede the individuals' personal choices, and religion is considered a personal choice. However, the military does what it can to accommodate people of different faiths. For prayer during training, for example, you must speak with your instructors before training begins and provide them with a schedule. Then, they will certainly give you a few minutes to pray and return to the classroom/exercise, if possible. For example, one practicing Muslim in my instructor's class was regularly pulled from classroom/training at specific times and given a few minutes to pray. However, this is NOT a guarantee (and sometimes, it may be impossible).
> 
> ...



I would look at this thread http://army.ca/forums/threads/30884.225.html for a more infornmation on meals, as the info you were given my be oversimplified.



> *11. For part-time reservists in Toronto, where do the trainings take place?*
> 
> BMOQ - Fort York or Moss Park, Toronto
> BMOQ-L - Meaford, ON
> Trades Course - Typically in Gagetown, NB for Infantry and Engineers



For Infantry officer trade training DP1.1 it is only ran in Gagetown by the Infantry School



> *12. Will I get the opportunity to learn French?*
> 
> It is preferred that all officers be bilingual. In the Regular Force, most officers are. As a reservist, you are not required to be bilingual, but if you are interested, you will have the opportunity to learn French.



On paper you will have the opportunity to learn French, but in reality it is hard for a reserve to attend French training as it comes out of someones budget and most French courses have a limited capacity and it is hard to get on one.


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## mariomike (8 Jul 2015)

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> *8. I would like to know how recruits with full-time jobs typically manage to take the large amounts of time required for training off*



To add to the advice from Recruiting, you may also find these discussions of interest,

Reservists Job Protection Superthread  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/2552.0

29 years old, full-time job - want to be a Reserves Officer...  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/101467.0

Reservists + Work  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/107451.25


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## MarkDownly (19 Aug 2015)

I plan to join once I'm 16/17 currently 15 and not gonna lie a fair bit out of shape you can email me if you'd like the specifics but lets just leave it at that for now. Anyways I would like to know how to get ready for the exam and everything I will be joining Army cadets this fall but any other out of school advice, diet anything, I would be very thankful for.

[Edit title to reflect OP's questions.]


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## Bruce Monkhouse (19 Aug 2015)

Start reading the forums on this site in regards to fitness tips and standards and then apply yourself to it.
Good luck.
Locked


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## MarkDownly (21 Aug 2015)

Is there any way to increase my chances of making it into a highlander unit, being from Scotland I'd like to do my grandparents proud


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## Oldgateboatdriver (21 Aug 2015)

Move to Montreal and join the Black Watch;

Move to Toronto and join the Tor Scots;

And if you wanted to join the regular forces then, well you are out of luck. The only "highland" regiment we have is … the RCAF ???

 ;D

Good luck.


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## MarkDownly (21 Aug 2015)

I want to join the forces at 16 as a full time student and I would really like some insight on how that would go as if is there a course at school or at the recruitment center or what just any info and or insight would be nice.


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## Pusser (21 Aug 2015)

There are actually quite a few highland regiments scattered across the Reserve (Seaforths, Canadian Scottish, two types of Camerons, Cap Breton Highlanders, 48th, etc).  If you want to wear a kilt in the Regular Force the RCR (in addtion to the RCAF) also has a pipe band.


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## George Wallace (21 Aug 2015)

MarkDownly said:
			
		

> I want to join the forces at 16 as a full time student and I would really like some insight on how that would go as if is there a course at school or at the recruitment center or what just any info and or insight would be nice.



MarkDownly

Welcome to army.ca

When you registered for this site, you were supposed to read the site rules.  As you are computer literate, you should know how to do a SEARCH.  As the military has been around for several millennium, any questions you may have, have likely been asked and answered many times over those millennium.  


Our advice to you now is to READ more and Post less.


http://army.ca/forums/threads/656.0.html



Topic LOCKED


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## kungfupanda (7 Aug 2016)

After you complete your BMQ do you meet with a career councilor to plan out a potential  career  targetory? 

To help advise you on what courses to aim for and way to work on any weaknesses that need to be addressed to be more competitive for those goals? 

I am finding that a lot of the trade specific information concerning career progression is a need to know once you get hired.  I am worried about getting caught flat footed after BMQ and trade training; don't want to miss an opportunity afterwards because or lack of research or preparedness.

Thanks,

Panda.


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## PuckChaser (7 Aug 2016)

No, that's what your supervisor and career manager is for. There is nothing you can do between enrollment and arriving at your first posting to change anything on your "trajectory" other than maximal effort on your courses.


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## kungfupanda (7 Aug 2016)

Thank you!!


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## Seymour98 (11 Sep 2016)

I just completed the RAVEN program and I have gained interest in joining the Navy, but I am curious if you have a choice on where you would like to be posted in the reg force. I happen to live on Vancouver Island and what would be the odds of me being posted to Esquimalt??


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## mariomike (11 Sep 2016)

Seymour98 said:
			
		

> I have gained interest in joining the Navy, but I am curious if you have a choice on where you would like to be posted  in the reg force.



Forum: Navy

Subject: Chances of going East/West
http://army.ca/forums/threads/91446/post-902292.html#msg902292

OP: I know that you have some sort of say in the matter, but its not guaranteed.

Moderator: Its been discussed but once again here it is. If you find yourself on the coast you did not want to go to, do your job and stick it out. During Divisional Interviews and when you see the Career manager let them know you where you want to go. Remember as well there are no guarantees you will get the coast you want. Also fill out a request form when you get to your unit. 

Locked

Milnet.Ca Staff

Trade selection is also a factor. eg: "Purple" trade versus "Hard-sea" trade.


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## DAA (12 Sep 2016)

Seymour98 said:
			
		

> I just completed the RAVEN program and I have gained interest in joining the Navy, but I am curious if you have a choice on where you would like to be posted in the reg force. I happen to live on Vancouver Island and what would be the odds of me being posted to Esquimalt??



Upon completion of your occupational training and when it comes time to post you, you can request a "preferred" location but whether you get that location or not, will be based on the needs of the CAF.

If you are enrolled into a "hard" Naval occupation (ie; Navy ONLY), your first posting should be to either Ships East (Halifax) or Ships West (Esquimalt).  So your chances of being assigned to Esquimalt are 50-50.


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## AbdullahD (26 Oct 2016)

I am necro posting here, instead of creating a new thread.

I have seen that halal/kosher/vegetarian food, may or will be available in varying degrees at each of the bases and this is not the issue. Nor is the fact I am allowed my beard with certain restrictions. In fact I am more then happy.

My question is, at which point should I inform the recruiting office about my wish to keep a beard and eat halal? (halal, vegetarian and kosher all work for me).

If their are enough Jewish, Vegetarian or Muslims signing up would they arrange to have us do BMQ together? (extremely long shot and not realistic, I know. I also do not expect it) I have talked to the recruiter about keeping a beard and all he said was show up to bmq and claim religious exemption... but I prefer to double check and inquire about eating Halal, Kosher or Vegetarian.

Also I watched the basic up series, very informative and I am aware that I will most likely need to shave my beard even if I have an exemption for the gas chamber training. That also as me wondering if they will request me to be clean shaven for bmq and then I could grow it out after? (That is acceptable to me, because it is legitimate training and they need to know I will follow orders. Also I prefer to know beforehand so I can shave before going *if * i have to... so I am not as sensitive lol)

Anyone have any insights? Any Rabbi's? Recruiters? BMQ instructors? Or person with correct knowledge?

Thanks guys
Abdullah


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Oct 2016)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> I am necro posting here, instead of creating a new thread.



I'm not in recruiting so most of if not all of my response is just guessing.



> My question is, at which point should I inform the recruiting office about my wish to keep a beard and eat halal? (halal, vegetarian and kosher all work for me).


You could ask recruiting to note it somewhere on your file that you're Muslim (I'm sure it already is) and you want to eat Halal but I don't think recruiting would care too much or even matter when it comes to what food you want and wearing a beard, that's more for your course staff.

When you show up you'll be asked to identify if you have dietary needs and you can tell them then that you want Halal. 
[A point on that. I had a student who requested Halal meals which meant he got specially made meals in the field. When he didn't like what was being served for his Halal meal he just had what everyone else was having. That put him in a really bad spot not only with instructors but students as well.]

As far as a beard goes yes you can request permission to grow/have a beard for religious reasons if you don't show up with one already (consent that is from the CF). You can ask to speak with the padre (not doctor) about getting permission.  I'm just guessing here but showing up with a beard without some kind of approval could start you off on the wrong foot (all extra paperwork does, really).  It wouldn't hurt for you to go to your local cleric priest guy and have him write something up about you being a devout Muslim who wears a beard for religious reasons. That way the CF knows you're serious about it and not doing it on a whim. I'll be honest I think there's a good chance you'll come under more scrutiny being a convert so supporting evidence will help.



> If their are enough Jewish, Vegetarian or Muslims signing up would they arrange to have us do BMQ together? (extremely long shot and not realistic, I know.


I can't really see that happening, it really goes against what we're trying to achieve with basic training. 



> Also I watched the basic up series, very informative and I am aware that I will most likely need to shave my beard even if I have an exemption for the gas chamber training. That also as me wondering if they will request me to be clean shaven for bmq and then I could grow it out after?


Good question. I'm not sure what the current policy is for basic training and CBRN exemptions. I'll try and see what I can dig up.

Alternately I'm not sure how attached you are to your beard (har har) but you could consider showing up shaven and then growing your beard out after CBRN/gas hut training or growing your beard after basic training. That could alleviate some of the issues with having a beard. Growing it after passing basic could be symbolic too? I don't know.


----------



## AbdullahD (27 Oct 2016)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I'm not in recruiting so most of if not all of my response is just guessing.
> You could ask recruiting to note it somewhere on your file that you're Muslim (I'm sure it already is) and you want to eat Halal but I don't think recruiting would care too much or even matter when it comes to what food you want and wearing a beard, that's more for your course staff.
> 
> When you show up you'll be asked to identify if you have dietary needs and you can tell them then that you want Halal.
> [A point on that. I had a student who requested Halal meals which meant he got specially made meals in the field. When he didn't like what was being served for his Halal meal he just had what everyone else was having. That put him in a really bad spot not only with instructors but students as well.]



Ack, Muslims of convenience. They make us look bad, I am fully prepared to eat whatever is available and halal. If I have to go without on some occasions that is fine, I will not however eat food that is impermissible. (I actually reviewed the vegetarian/kosher etc threads on this forum and realize at certain points in my CF career the only halal food could be potatoes and I am okay with that.)

But it sounds like halal food will already be on site and I just need to request it, with no prior warning eh? That is awesome... these poor cooks likely need a pay raise for dealing with us picky fellows. God bless em all.



> As far as a beard goes yes you can request permission to grow/have a beard for religious reasons if you don't show up with one already (consent that is from the CF). You can ask to speak with the padre (not doctor) about getting permission.  I'm just guessing here but showing up with a beard without some kind of approval could start you off on the wrong foot (all extra paperwork does, really).  It wouldn't hurt for you to go to your local cleric priest guy and have him write something up about you being a devout Muslim who wears a beard for religious reasons. That way the CF knows you're serious about it and not doing it on a whim. I'll be honest I think there's a good chance you'll come under more scrutiny being a convert so supporting evidence will help.



See being a Muslim convert, eating halal and keeping a beard I fully expect to be under closer scrutiny potentially. My good friend who served many years in the RAF warned me of this and just told me to work my ass off and earn everything I ask for. He basically said if I get to eat halal food made specially for me, get extra prayer breaks etc, I should also offer to take the tough middle of the night fire watches to help team mates out and pull my own weight etc etc.

I will arrange for one of my friends who is an Imam and scholar to write up the note regarding a beard. I just want to avoid showing up and making things harder for staff.. cause an odd feeling that would single me out more. Hence the questions.



> I can't really see that happening, it really goes against what we're trying to achieve with basic training.



Exactly as expected, as it should be too I suppose.



> Good question. I'm not sure what the current policy is for basic training and CBRN exemptions. I'll try and see what I can dig up.



Thank you



> Alternately I'm not sure how attached you are to your beard (har har) but you could consider showing up shaven and then growing your beard out after CBRN/gas hut training or growing your beard after basic training. That could alleviate some of the issues with having a beard. Growing it after passing basic could be symbolic too? I don't know.



I am fairly attached to it  I just dont know if showing up clean shaven, would show that I dont really care about my beard.. because I do. If I have to shave though, I will. If they want me to show up clean shaven up until 'xyz' point in training where I will be allowed to re grow it then that is okay too. If I have to be clean shaven for basic that is fine too.

I am just trying to figure out my best course of action. Thanks for a few answers Jarnhamar, I will get that letter as a starting point. That was solid advice.

Abdullah


----------



## DAA (27 Oct 2016)

You're asking some pretty tough questions but I'll try my best and is probably a repeat of what Jarnhamar has already mentioned.

First off, Food Svcs (ie; Mess Hall/Kitchen) at any location aren't equipped or trained, let alone funded, to be able to provide halal or kosher meals.  So the possibility of being accommodated isn't in your favour.  It has been looked at before but the costs were just too prohibitive and so were the risks.

As far as the beard is concerned, that just might be a choice they allow you to make for yourself.  But be forewarned, the purpose of Basic Military Training, is to teach you to be able to work as a "group/team", not as an "individual" and be able to follow direction.  BMQ/BMOQ and initial occupation training, is not really the time or place to make yourself "stand out" in the crowd.  Every successful applicant to the CAF arrives at Basic Training as an individual but when they leave, they have hopefully gained a sense of team work, belonging and made some life long friends.

If you are successful and do receive an offer of employment, you'll have some difficult decisions to make.   Good luck!    

PS - Here's some lite reading for you.

http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vol15/no1/page34-eng.asp

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5516-3.page


----------



## AbdullahD (27 Oct 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> You're asking some pretty tough questions but I'll try my best and is probably a repeat of what Jarnhamar has already mentioned.



Sometimes the exact same information, repeated differently helps.



> First off, Food Svcs (ie; Mess Hall/Kitchen) at any location aren't equipped or trained, let alone funded, to be able to provide halal or kosher meals.  So the possibility of being accommodated isn't in your favour.  It has been looked at before but the costs were just too prohibitive and so were the risks.



Okay, I understand and respect that. I will make do as I can.



> As far as the beard is concerned, that just might be a choice they allow you to make for yourself.  But be forewarned, the purpose of Basic Military Training, is to teach you to be able to work as a "group/team", not as an "individual" and be able to follow direction.  BMQ/BMOQ and initial occupation training, is not really the time or place to make yourself "stand out" in the crowd.  Every successful applicant to the CAF arrives at Basic Training as an individual but when they leave, they have hopefully gained a sense of team work, belonging and made some life long friends.



If I should shave for basic, that is not a tough choice for me I just will. The Canadian forces already allows me to keep one, if it is more realistic to shave for training thats fine. There is an established need, that I have found being the gas mask training. But if I dont have to, then I likely wont, have others gone through basic training with a beard? My neck does bend, I know the CF allows me to keep a beard, but I am not so rigid that I can not adapt.



> If you are successful and do receive an offer of employment, you'll have some difficult decisions to make.   Good luck!
> 
> PS - Here's some lite reading for you.
> 
> ...



Light reading it is, I will have to really read it. From my quick skimming the CF will make 'reasonable' allowances etc..

Any rate, should I fire an email off to the recruiter about this once I have a letter stating it's importance? Should I wait for the interview or BMQ? From what Jarnhamar and you both said, apparently I will be asked my dietary needs at bmq, but if they are not equipped then that is likely to late anyways...

Thinking out loud. The only tough choice for me would be if the CF would not let me have a beard at all and not try at all to offer me food options... but since they do. The rest is easy, it is just about how, get the allowance to have a beard, but shave for bmq and grow it later.. will i be vegetarian and missing a lot of food for a bunch of days or will halal food exist... this is just all small potatoes  hell they still need to be silly enough to hire me 

Abdullah

Ps my beard is for religious reasons, not medical. So I wonder how much that plays into it regarding bmq too. Since I dont medically 'need' a beard...  ugh, i will read the linked articles then come back to it. Thanks again guys.


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Oct 2016)

[quote author=AbdullahD]I will not however eat food that is impermissible.[/quote]
That's my beef (har har I'm on a roll today) with dietary restrictions. It's great until someone lets the section down because they're not taking in enough calories, on top of the convenience thing you mentioned. That's for another time and place though. 



> But it sounds like halal food will already be on site and I just need to request it, with no prior warning eh? That is awesome... these poor cooks likely need a pay raise for dealing with us picky fellows. God bless em all.



I'm not that up to snuff on the different religious food requirements and terminologies (I may have been confusing with my answer). As the sagely DAA points out the kitchens aren't trained for the hardcore stuff.  I know Muslims and others can request special meals but I think often they're just vegetarian plates without any meat. I didn't mean to imply the meat was Halal.  I think I've came across Halal ration packs but I don't remember if they're Canadian or American sorry.  I might get a steak for supper and you might get a plate of rice or pasta or veggie lasagna.  



> See being a Muslim convert, eating halal and keeping a beard I fully expect to be under closer scrutiny potentially.
> //
> I get to eat halal food made specially for me, get extra prayer breaks etc, I should also offer to take the tough middle of the night fire watches to help team mates out and pull my own weight etc etc.


It's going to be a challenge because people can sit on army.ca and talk about how wonderful it is supporting someones religious requirements and it never bothered them but when it's cold and wet and people haven't slept and you get a steaming plate of special food or get pulled out of the suck 3x a day to pray people won't be so supportive. Chances are you'll feel even worse about it.



> I will arrange for one of my friends who is an Imam and scholar to write up the note regarding a beard. I just want to avoid showing up and making things harder for staff.. cause an odd feeling that would single me out more. Hence the questions.


A little bit of effort on your part might make things at BMQ a lot easier and smoother for sure.



> I am just trying to figure out my best course of action.


Duty makes all things simple


----------



## Tory (16 Dec 2016)

So...I'm interested in joining the army, but want to make sure I know for sure what I'm getting into. Does anyone have first hand experience? (in other words, been through BCT) 
Thanks,
Tory


----------



## mariomike (16 Dec 2016)

Tory said:
			
		

> I'm interested in joining the army, but want to make sure I know for sure what I'm getting into.



Milnet.ca
Army
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/board,117.0.html

Forces.ca
Life in the Army
If you enjoy helping those in need, in times of conflict or natural disasters, in Canada or around the world, a career in the Army may be for you. At home in Canada, and on deployments overseas, you will defend our country’s sovereignty and values with the highest standards of military excellence. Regular or Reserve Force, a career in the Canadian Army is a unique mix of service and skill, camaraderie and commitment, action and adventure.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/lifeintheforces-75

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Loachman (16 Dec 2016)

"BCT"?

Welcome to Army.ca, Tory.

mariomike kindly provided you with a couple of links to get you started. Explore them, and then branch out into some of the other fora on this Site. The stickied threads at the top of each forum and sub-forum are generally good places to start.


----------



## mariomike (16 Dec 2016)

Loachman said:
			
		

> "BCT"?



I wonder what that is?

It's not in our acronyms.
http://milnet.ca/wiki/index.php/Canadian_Military_Acronyms#B

But, BCT does come up in a search,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+BCT&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=eGVUWMnaKsuC8Qfa-JuADg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+BCT&start=0

Tory, what does BCT mean?


----------



## MH2022 (16 Dec 2016)

It's American I think "Basic Combat Training" of I remember correctly.


----------



## Loachman (16 Dec 2016)

I am familiar with the US term "Brigade Combat Team", but had not seen the Canadian term "Basic Classification Training" before.


----------



## Komal (10 May 2017)

Hi! I have also applied for Engineer Officer but through the ROTP program, I am now thinking of accepting my offer, but I just wanted to ask about the engineer officer lifestyle and how often you guys get deployed? I don't want to sign up for a career where i'll never be at home...


----------



## mariomike (10 May 2017)

Komal said:
			
		

> I just wanted to ask about the engineer officer lifestyle and how often you guys get deployed?



On being an Engineer (officer) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/33020.25
2 pages.

Engineering Officer training/career questions  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/102989.0

Tuna's questions about a career as an Engineer (Officer) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/101268.0



			
				Komal said:
			
		

> I don't want to sign up for a career where i'll never be at home...



How long do I need to be away from home in regular force?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/91732.0

All things joining the military (but not wanting to deploy) - merged  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/89177.0/nowap.html
4 pages.

Away from home
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+engineer+officer&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=C1kTWYegLcGC8Qft343gCQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22away+from+home%22&spf=1494440921675

Deployments
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+engineer+officer&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=C1kTWYegLcGC8Qft343gCQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+deployment&spf=1494440921672

etc...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (10 May 2017)

Komal said:
			
		

> . . .  I don't want to sign up for a career where i'll never be at home...



This, an not uncommon train of thought for contemporary ROTP applicants, I find to be somewhat odd for anyone starting as an officer in the CF.  While you will, if you accept the ROTP offer, be in uniform for several years, it is not a period of servitude.  Look at it in the same way as any other young person who has decided on an educational path because that is what it is at this stage of your life.  For the next four years you will be in university.  You're not going anywhere, other than attending occupational related training in the summer.  Okay, you may be attending a school where you will have to dress the same as every other student, but the country pays you to wear the funny looking student clothes.  You don't have to worry about finding summer employment or student loans.  When you finish your degree you have a guaranteed job that will (especially as an engineer) be directly related to your degree (that first job is important to padding the resume).  You'll probably have one or two other distinctively different and progressively more responsible jobs in the short (5 years?) time that is payback for your education.  Again great for the resume.  By the time one has discharged his service obligation, the typical ROTP type will be 26 or 27 years old.  At that age, nobody is so established in a "career" that they can't easily move into a different direction.

Now, if your thought is that you want to have all the benefits of a subsidized education but don't want to deploy so are looking for an occupation that stays at home, then find someone else to pay for your schooling.


----------



## Mahir0901 (29 May 2017)

How many infantry soldiers get accepted to the CAF every year?


----------



## Infant_Tree (29 May 2017)

Are you going in as NCM or Officer?


----------



## Kat Stevens (30 May 2017)

Mahir0901 said:
			
		

> How many infantry soldiers get accepted to the CAF every year?



All of them.


----------



## Mahir0901 (30 May 2017)

I'm going as an NCM


----------



## da1root (1 Jun 2017)

Mahir0901 said:
			
		

> How many infantry soldiers get accepted to the CAF every year?





			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> All of them.



BAHAHAHAHA ... love it Kat Stevens!!

On a serious note, there is no exact number of Infantry that the CAF recruits on a yearly basis.  The number changes year to year; sometimes it's because the Government increases the size of the military - other times it's due to individuals who are in the trade either changing to another trade or retiring from the CAF.


----------



## Louis_Army (17 Jun 2017)

I've been considering joining the army for a long time and I would like to know what my best options are.

I currently live in Montreal with no significant work experience, activities, and no University degree. Completed my C-GEP in Sciences years ago.
I recently started training my body since I wasn't exactly in shape (never been fat or even skinny fat tho) but I'm kinda physically clumsy by design.

It recently came to my understanding that there was a possibility of being an intelligence operator. I'm drawn to it because I have a good verbal intelligence, analytical skills, fascinated by world events, about geography, history and other languages. I'm bilingual. 
But what are the chances to get hired there considering my predicament?

And aside from that orientation, is there something for me in the army?


----------



## shane306 (17 Jun 2017)

First of all the process is not a quick yes or no thing. You shouldnt even worry about chances, you have nothing to lose by applying, just apply and see what happens and if 6 months down the road you happen to get an offer you can always turn it down if you decide you no longer want it. Theres nothing inherently wrong with your predicament, many NCMs dont have university degrees or work experience when they apply, there are many factors taken into account for applicants including stuff still directly in your control: your CFAT test and your interview. 

The chance of failure or not being accepted is not a good enough reason to not even attempt it.


----------



## mariomike (17 Jun 2017)

Louis_Army said:
			
		

> It recently came to my understanding that there was a possibility of being an intelligence operator. I'm drawn to it because I have a good verbal intelligence, analytical skills, fascinated by world events, about geography, history and other languages. I'm bilingual.
> But what are the chances to get hired there considering my predicament?



In case you have read it already, you may find this discussion of interest,

"I want to be Int" Mega-thread  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12858.200
16 pages.


----------



## Louis_Army (17 Jun 2017)

Yes that's the thread that convinced me to make this one.

 Aside from intelligence operators, which in my understanding is hard to get into, what other paths would be available, and what are the promotions/career advancement down the line for someone starting 'low'?


----------



## mariomike (17 Jun 2017)

Louis_Army said:
			
		

> Aside from intelligence operators, which in my understanding is hard to get into, what other paths would be available, and what are the promotions/career advancement down the line for someone starting 'low'?



Career Options
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/careeroptions-123

_As always,_ Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Louis_Army (18 Jun 2017)

Yes but from experience, which one of these is easy to get in, opens up career paths and can be intellectually stimulating?


----------



## Loachman (18 Jun 2017)

That depends upon you. Everybody is different - different interests, experiences, abilities, strengths, and weaknesses.

Anything easy is not worth doing, and you should be seeking challenges rather than something "easy".

Read through older threads here. That will give you much better insight.


----------



## Louis_Army (18 Jun 2017)

Yeah I'm skimming through them. I'm not looking for anything easy. I'm looking for something I have good chances of getting in on the spot.

Aside from what I described, I'm expecting the possibility of a career that has good and realistic promotion potential, through experience and competence. Not just being stuck in the same occupation for the same wage my entire career.

I know next to nothing about the army, but say, where can an infantry private head too on the long term, without going back to college? Or a naval communicator?


----------



## Loachman (18 Jun 2017)

No two careers are alike. There are many variables. Promotion will depend largely on your efforts and abilities. The CF is quite supportive of those who seek to improve their education as well.

As for "getting in on the spot", I'm not  sure how you define that, but the occupation that you select will depend upon the positions available, your interests, your CFAT score, and your overall competitiveness.

Keep reading...


----------



## Louis_Army (18 Jun 2017)

I'm not sure how to define on the spot. I mean being guaranteed a place as long as I proceed normally through the process and show a reasonable understanding of what I'm getting into with a strong motivation to serve my country.


----------



## mariomike (18 Jun 2017)

Louis_Army said:
			
		

> where can an infantry private head too on the long term, without going back to college?



Infantry Soldiers who demonstrate the required ability, dedication and potential are selected for opportunities for career progression, promotion and advanced training, including Paratrooper training.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/combat-specialists/infantry-soldier.html



			
				Louis_Army said:
			
		

> Or a naval communicator?


Opportunities for career progression, promotion and advanced training are available for those who demonstrate ability and potential.
https://www.canada.ca/content/canadasite/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/telecommunications/naval-communicator.html



			
				Louis_Army said:
			
		

> I mean being guaranteed a place as long as I proceed normally through the process and show a reasonable understanding of what I'm getting into with a strong motivation to serve my country.



TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/81054.0

Application Process Samples  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13064.0.html
213 pages.


----------



## Good2Golf (18 Jun 2017)

Louis, for what it is worth, consider that ANY career in the military will bring with it a fair bit of uncertainty, whether that is caused by the military's own internal characteristics, or from the environment within which the military will operate.  So, if it is certainty that you are looking for, then you have to decide: "is an organization that has to deal on a regular basis with volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity in Canada and around the world, the kind of organization you want to be a part of?"  It sounds like you need to ask yourself if you are okay with that now and years into the future, because you will most certainly find life in the CAF to be anything but deliberate, certain, planned, dependable, etc.   There are probably few here serving or having served, who had their careers unfold precisely as they initially though, back when they recruited into the CF/CAF.  It probably isn't a stretch to say that every one of us had a fair bit of uncertainty throughout our careers.  Are you okay with that?

Regards
G2G


----------



## Loachman (18 Jun 2017)

There are no guarantees in any career.

There are no guarantees in any aspect of life.

Except, of course, the traditional two.


----------



## da1root (20 Jun 2017)

Louis_Army said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how to define on the spot. I mean being guaranteed a place as long as I proceed normally through the process and show a reasonable understanding of what I'm getting into with a strong motivation to serve my country.


Please note that there is no guarantee to being selected for any occupation just by proceeding normally through the process.  The CAF gets over 40,000 applications a year and depending on the year, but on average only 5,000-6,000 of those applications are selected to receive an offer of employment.  

While there are many of us on here who have spent many years in uniform, some even as recruiters - I would strongly encourage you to (1) take time to browse the occupations on the CAF website: and (2) visit your local CFRC to discuss the trades that you find interesting.


----------



## FinnO25 (21 Sep 2017)

Hey everyone! so I just got and email today saying that I have been given an offer of employment, I was not able to reach my file manager before the end of day, so I am just wondering how long do they hold the offer for? I just really don't want to be past over.


----------



## mariomike (21 Sep 2017)

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> so I just got and email today saying that I have been given an offer of employment, I was not able to reach my file manager before the end of day, so I am just wondering how long do they hold the offer for?



Position Offered: September 21st 2017
(I have to call in tomorrow to formally accept and get my dates etc!!!) 

Congratulations.

Why not contact them tomorrow and ask?


----------



## FinnO25 (21 Sep 2017)

Point taken. Thanks Mike!


----------



## mariomike (21 Sep 2017)

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> So you're saying that they will still have it for me tomorrow?





			
				FinnO25 said:
			
		

> Position Offered: September 21st 2017
> (I have to call in tomorrow to formally accept and get my dates etc!!!)



I'm saying, why not call them tomorrow?


----------



## mariomike (21 Sep 2017)

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> Point taken. Thanks Mike!



Congratulations and good luck, Finn.


----------



## Loachman (21 Sep 2017)

Some recruiting centres do it like raffles - if you're not there when your ticket's drawn they draw another.

I think that you'll be fine for another day, though. Just a feeling...


----------



## FinnO25 (21 Sep 2017)

LOL thats jokes ;D


----------



## Q.Lamb (4 Dec 2017)

I couldn't think of a better title. I realize that the way I feel really comes down to me and no one else.
That being said, I'm having second thoughts about joining.

I am going to be enrolled on the 19th, 16 days from now, basic training follows on the 8th of January. From the day I decided to join back in June I haven't had a second thought. I knew it was what I wanted to do and nothing was going to sway me.

But now it has hit me. Not necessarily the sudden realization that it is so close or that it is really happening. What has hit me is that I don't think that I'm ready for this kind of commitment. I'm 19, barely lived, and about to sign away the next 5 years of my life (I do know about the VR 4 or 5 weeks into basic). 

I have 2 great opportunities either way. I can join the forces now, have my education paid for, some of the worlds best training, discipline, and invaluable experience. With the catch of going where I am told when I am told to go, putting my relationship on hold for basically a year (likely longer), moving away from everyone I know (friends and family), and making less than my civilian equivalent.
Or I can work for the next 10 months and go to college (already a spot made for me in September 2018) for heavy duty diesel mechanics (would be vehicle tech in military). Building my relationship up and getting married, being able to build a solid future with relative certainty to were I will be 5 years from now. With the guarantee that I can still at least apply in x amount of years.

Obviously there are numerous amounts of pro's and con's unlisted.

I have been talking with my girlfriend for several hours on this. She insists that I not stay for her and that she refuses to hold me back (god I love this girl), and that we will make it work. But really I think it is me that is holding me back, I don't think I'm ready, both were I am in life and were I am mentally/emotionally (not that I'm messed in the head).

Personally, every person who has served/serves my country via military has my utmost respect. I believe that it is the most honorable thing a person can do. I would go so far as to say that if a person hasn't been willing to die for this country they shouldn't be the leader of our country.

All that being said, is there any shame or dishonor in getting this far in the process, just weeks away from getting to basic, and turning away? That is what I'm struggling the most with. I can ask my friends and family, but truthfully, they haven't served and while I love them, they don't have the same authority to me to answer that question as solidly as I believe a person who has served does.

Ultimately it is my decision, I will be the one that has to sleep at night after making it. I just need to know, if I feel ashamed or dishonorable, is it warranted, or is it smaller than I am making it for myself?


----------



## mariomike (4 Dec 2017)

Q.Lamb said:
			
		

> I am going to be enrolled on the 19th,



If you are considering declining, you may find this discussion of interest,

Declining an offer (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/104645.0
3 pages.


----------



## Jarnhamar (4 Dec 2017)

Lamb,

Basic training is set up to isolate you from your family and outside world (initially). It can be an extremely stressful situation if you're not physically and mentally prepared for it. Lots of recruits get there and have second thoughts. Some manage to get past it and make it through, some quit. I've found being away from girlfriends/wives/partners is one of the leading reasons recruits want to quit.

You might get there, love it and want to sign up for 20 years, might want to jump off a bridge or feel anywhere along that spectrum.

At the end of the day you simply have to make a decision and accept the consequences that come along with it. Whether it's the loss of freedom for X amount of time or always wondering "what if" you stayed.

My personal opinion is if you have an opportunity to go to college and get a trade THEN join the military it's a bonus because you'll be bringing more experience in to the military AND you have a solid backup plan if you either end up hating the military or you get injured during training and have to release. But at the same time if you join 3 years later you might miss awesome oppertunities, tours, courses and be behind people joining today.    

Big decision. Pick one, accept the consequences and if you make the wrong decision own up to it and fix it, don't try and take an easy way out (like faking an injury/family crisis).


----------



## mariomike (4 Dec 2017)

Q.Lamb said:
			
		

> I don't think I'm ready,



Reads like you answered your own question.


----------



## coyote489 (4 Dec 2017)

Huge decision to make for sure. I know it seems hard at first to leave people behind but after a few weeks and once your settled in, those feelings slowly start to fade. The first few weeks of my first tasking in Gagetown I was pretty depressed, but one day I told myself I'm here and better make the best of it. After that I had a pretty good time. But if you are going in with your current attitude as a new recruit then heed your own feelings. If you feel your setting yourself up for failure then don't go and waste your time. Personally I think you should go because as stated earlier you'll probably always have that "what if" in the back of your head. Just my two cents, good luck and all the best in your endeavours.


----------



## Pusser (4 Dec 2017)

You claimed that "you haven't really lived," yet.  My question to you is, what makes you think that you can't do that as a member of the Armed Forces?  We are not separate from society.  We are part of it.  Yes, there are a few hardships to start with in terms of isolation and being away from home and these things will continue throughout your time in the CAF, but in the broader scheme of things and life, these times are relatively brief and infrequent.  The vast majority of CAF member spend most of their time at home and most of their time working Monday through Friday.  We live in our communities and partake in all that has to offer.  The biggest difference is that don't have to choose what we wear to work everyday and occasionally we get to do some really cool stuff. To give you my own example:  I have a house in the suburbs, two cats, two vehicles parked in garage and I have to occasionally mow the lawn, just like the civilians who live around me.  I also play on a local rugby team and coach my kids in their sports.  In other words, I live a pretty normal middle class life which is only occasionally interrupted to go away and so something cool (for which I'm generally pretty well paid).

I dispute the idea that one can do the same job outside the military for more money.  While this is certainly true in some cases, it is by no means universal, nor is it that common.  When I compare myself to many of my civilian friends (yes, I have a few of those), when you look at our leave policy and the host of other benefits we receive (the pension being right at the top of that list) AND the fact that I am extremely unlikely to ever lose my job or get laid off, I think I am way ahead.  I will be retiring in two years with a pension that will give me an income that is significantly higher than what a lot of people earn working full time.

My advice to you is try it.  Give it some time.  In life we often regret the things we never did far more than the things we didn't.  Your college program will still be there if things don't work out in the military.  Colleges are pretty open and there is a high demand for skilled trades programs, so your chances or getting back into your program of choice are pretty high (whether that translates into a job on the other end is another question).  However, the reverse is not always true.  If you go through this forum, you will see many stories of great struggles to get into the Armed Forces.  If you pull out now, it could be years before you get the chance again - if ever.  You have been given this opportunity and opportunity does not always come around twice.  Also, the first few years in the military are the toughest and I would say it's better to do it while you're young.  If you wait a few years, you may have a mortgage, kids and the other trappings of adult life that will only make it harder to start out in the military.  Remember that when you're 19 and single or 29 with three kids, the pay for a private is the same.  I understand your reluctance to leave your girlfriend behind, but she's not the one holding you back.  If your relationship is strong, you will weather this storm and again, it's better to do this now, than later when "adulting" catches up with you (and it will).

The most important thing you have to do right now is have faith in yourself.


----------



## BeyondTheNow (4 Dec 2017)

Q.Lamb said:
			
		

> I couldn't think of a better title. I realize that the way I feel really comes down to me and no one else.
> That being said, I'm having second thoughts about joining.
> 
> I am going to be enrolled on the 19th, 16 days from now, basic training follows on the 8th of January. From the day I decided to join back in June I haven't had a second thought. I knew it was what I wanted to do and nothing was going to sway me.
> ...



My personal thoughts:

Is there shame, or _should_ there be in not joining? No, not IMHO. But will there be *regret* later on? (i.e relationship collapses, things go to crap in other facets of your life for whatever reason, financial issues, etc. etc. etc., the things that life tends to throw one's way sometimes and what could have been the one stable thing in your life, CAF, you walked away from before you even tried.) Quite possibly.

As I read through your post, one thing stood out to me the most. You're comfortable. You like how everything is right now. And that's totally okay--nothing wrong with that at all. Joining will violently throw you OUT of your comfort zone. No doubt. But you know what? That's okay too--and I personally encourage it, at any age. That's how one grows. That's just me though. My life has been _uncomfortable_ for almost 40yrs. Moved around a lot as a kid, tumultuous family life, a relatively colourful past, travelled a lot, had 16 different jobs (last time I checked) since the age of 16, started living on my own at 17, etc. etc, etc. My employment/CAF is the one steady thing I've had in my life. It's been rough, yes, but that's generally how it goes in the first while anyway, from my understanding.

If you make the decision not to go for it, that's okay. Life is all about decisions and the type of life we end up providing for ourselves is _because_ of those decisions. But don't NOT join out of fear of the unknown. I'm a firm believer in doing something because it scares you.


----------



## Primus (4 Dec 2017)

I applied in 2013, I didn’t pursue it further because of a job opportunity. I later made my own business from that job experience. 
I later grew to hate that line of work. 
I then regretted not joining when I did. Imagine where I’d be at this time? I’d be done my training and already be posted doing pretty cool stuff perhaps.

 I can’t go back in time. Instead, I reapplied and now I’m back into the process. 
I’m not changing my mind again. 

I hate civilian life. 
It’s not for me. I want the structure, security and discipline that army will give. 
That’s me though.


----------



## mariomike (4 Dec 2017)

Primus said:
			
		

> I hate civilian life.
> It’s not for me. I want the structure, security and discipline that army will give.
> That’s me though.



Some people may enjoy the combination of civilian life, and the Reserves. I know I did.



			
				Q.Lamb said:
			
		

> I can work for the next 10 months and go to college (already a spot made for me in September 2018) for heavy duty diesel mechanics (would be vehicle tech in military).



I was in a PRes Service Battalion, and got to know our Vehicle Techs. I also knew our Emergency Vehicle Technicians ( they worked on heavy trucks and buses ) at my civilian workplace.  
Different employers. Both had "structure, security and discipline".


----------



## sidemount (4 Dec 2017)

Just to put it in perspective from my point of view...I joined at 18 after a year of University.

Before the age of 30 I had done more cool things, visited a ton of places all over the world (and not just shittty army places) that i had never thought id see.

Ive got good friends all over the country and a ton of great memories. Now I am married with kids and very happy. 

None of what I have done would have been possible had I not joined. The military opened up the world for me....it doesnt close everything up.

But thats me, you have to do what you want....reapplying is always an option. Releasing is an option too. This life isnt for everyone. Make a choice but remember you can change your mind...its ok.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## mellauren (5 Dec 2017)

I'll give you advice from a different perspective. My husband left for basic 3 months after we were married. We talked it through and the biggest things for me was that I didn't want him to have that "what if" and decide to join once we had kids and an established house hold.  He was away for most of the first year of our marriage but he's been all over the world and had so many experiences ( most of them positive).  
5 years is nothing. The military is great on your resume afterwards. Most jobs have civilian trades that are comparable if you want to get out after and finally at 19 it's not easy to get a well paying job with excellent benefits.
If your girlfriend loves you then she will be there for you. My relationship with my husband is stronger because we know not to take for granted the time We have together. Whether that's just the occasional weekend or you get a whole year of 8-4.
Good luck with your choice.

Feel free to message me if your girlfriend has any questions about the military family life.


----------



## Sig_Des (5 Dec 2017)

If you decide to not pursue, there isn't any shame or dishonor. Nobody is going to look at you differently, or line up to give you a white feather. Full candor here, no one who's in will care that much whether you joined or not. Your file manager may have a short-lived professional disappointment that the applicant file they have on their desk will go on one stack instead of the other, but they'll quickly move on.

Realistically, the harshest critic anyone has is themselves. Can YOU live with not taking that shot? Will you end up not regretting it?

I will say this. The hardest step into the unknown is generally the first one. Self-doubt is absolutely normal, especially when someone is older and is already established, or has other excellent options available to them. The easy choice is to maintain the status quo, and if you choose to do so, there isn't any shame in it. But stripping all the external factors and what-ifs away, it comes down to this: Do you want to do it? Like I said earlier, in all honestly, most of us don't care if you don't. But will you?

As previously mentioned, if you want the best of both worlds, you can also look at the Reserve option. You may love it, and decide you want to go full-hog into it, or you could decide it's not your bag, and go another route.

Either way, ball's in your court, and best of luck to you.


----------



## mariomike (5 Dec 2017)

The OP can take the offer, or leave it. S/he hasn't been sworn in yet.

Offers can be declined, or put on hold while applicants make a decision.

Declining an offer (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/104645.0
3 pages.

Application on hold
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&ei=KNQmWqqIIIeCjwTvqI7oAg&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+application+%22on+hold%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+application+%22on+hold%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...16398.19081.0.19556.2.2.0.0.0.0.92.160.2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.gSX9DjMsH9E

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Sig_Des (5 Dec 2017)

mariomike said:
			
		

> The OP can take the offer, or leave it. S/he hasn't been sworn in yet.



Pretty sure that's what everyone has been saying.



> As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.



Absolutely, when it comes to processes and individual files. The OP's asking about personal perception and feelings. I wouldn't necessarily consider recruiters the OPIs on those.


----------



## mariomike (5 Dec 2017)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> The OP's asking about personal perception and feelings.



My personal perception and feeling, if I graduated as a heavy duty diesel mechanic, would be to consider the CAF, but also consider other options,
https://www.toronto.ca/home/jobs/information-for-applicants/recruitment-intitiatives/toronto-fire-services-careers/mechanical/
( Click Job Description, if interested. )

EVT base pay ( before overtime etc. ) is $98,454. EVTs are eligible for promotion to Captain, District Chief etc. up the chain of command.

City benefits, job security and OMERS pension ( 2.33% accrual rate, and Health Care Spending Account until age 75 ).  



			
				Q.Lamb said:
			
		

> Sure I'm comfortable now but likely won't be in 3 years, and 5 years from now when I finish my VIE I will be well ahead of where I would be otherwise. That is to say of I don't extend it.



If you do not extend it, you may, or may not, find this of interest,

Ontario College of Trades

http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/veterans
Click: I’m a current or former military member with trades experience

Also discussed in,

Vehicle Technician
https://army.ca/forums/threads/1675.175
9 pages.


----------



## Q.Lamb (6 Dec 2017)

Alright everyone,

First off I want to thank you all for your replies. I read over them all several times.

I think that @BeyondTheNow hit the nail on the head. I am comfortable where I am, for now. Which is why I am going to stick it out with the military. Sure I'm comfortable now but likely won't be in 3 years, and 5 years from now when I finish my VIE I will be well ahead of where I would be otherwise. That is to say of I don't extend it.

Again, thank you to everyone who has commented, it really helped me to think clearly and to make what I believe is to be the correct decision.


----------



## coyote489 (6 Dec 2017)

Nice to hear you made a decision, keep us updated on here once in a while. Would be good to hear how you make out in your new career. Good luck and best wishes to you on your new endeavours.


----------



## CharlesLaf (18 Dec 2017)

Hello folks,

My concern regarding joining the regular is that I have a small farm. It would be better to put it straight ahead within a testamentary trust, and rent it out (for free, as long as they maintain the place, and they could keep farming revenues / with a special clause that I can come back any time if crap happens).
How do folks from the regular forces deal with their home? (no wifey for now)
Is regular forces 24/7/365 on base? 

Regards,


----------



## brihard (18 Dec 2017)

Move said:
			
		

> Hello folks,
> 
> My concern regarding joining the regular is that I have a small farm. It would be better to put it straight ahead within a testamentary trust, and rent it out (for free, as long as they maintain the place, and they could keep farming revenues / with a special clause that I can come back any time if crap happens).
> How do folks from the regular forces deal with their home? (no wifey for now)
> ...



Some work a normal Mon-Fri. Others work shiftwork. All may sometimes be subject to being sent away for weeks or months or a year on training, tasking, and deployments. This can happen arbitrarily and with little notice. If you’re Navy you may go to sea for weeks or months and live on your ship. If you’re Army you may go to the field for same and be out of contact with society. Air Force May have missions or taskings all over the globe.

Your off time is generally your own and most jobs most of the time are Monday to Friday... But it’s unwise to retain any commitments that specifically rely on your personal ability to be consistently physically present or available.


----------



## CharlesLaf (18 Dec 2017)

Oh wow, fair enough. 

How do military folks usually deal when they have assets? Family trusts?

PS: Is **** really an illegal word?


----------



## PuckChaser (18 Dec 2017)

Move said:
			
		

> How do military folks usually deal when they have assets? Family trusts?



Family trusts, or they become administrative burdens because they're never able to do taskings since they're so busy with other aspects of their life. The latter of those individuals usually has a short, unfulfilling career in the CAF.

If regular time commitment is an issue, there's always the Reserves.


----------



## mariomike (18 Dec 2017)

Move said:
			
		

> My concern regarding joining the regular is that I have a small farm.



In the Regular Force, you go where they send you:

"From time to time, Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) members are moved – or posted – to different locations to perform their jobs."

"CAF members must be ready to be deployed on short notice." 
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/life/moving-relocation.html



			
				Move said:
			
		

> Is **** really an illegal word?



Depends on what you mean by ****.

From the Site Owner,

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ



			
				Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> *Profanity*
> Profanity is strongly discouraged.
> Generally, there is a better way to express yourself than through the use of profanity, especially on the Internet where it can be hard to determine the intended tone. However, we recognize that Army.ca attracts a certain type of visitor, and that not all discussion topics are "family friendly" here by their nature. Still, profanity should not be "overused." There may be occasions where profanity is appropriate to underline your point or reinforce your emotion, however these should be few and far between. Please keep it within the bounds of civil society. There is an automatic censor system in effect by default, so those who are not concerned with profanity can simply disable it in their profile, while others can leave it enabled. In an effort to preserve civility, don't swear:
> 
> ...


----------



## brihard (19 Dec 2017)

Move said:
			
		

> Oh wow, fair enough.
> 
> How do military folks usually deal when they have assets? Family trusts?
> 
> PS: Is **** really an illegal word?



Most simply don’t have anything of that nature beyond maybe house, car, some financial investments... not many are joinin gup while they own/operate a farm or business.


----------



## Faller1985 (4 Jan 2018)

Question regarding my application. I applied for regular forces / non-commision / unskilled and chose my 3 options I would like for career choices. I was wondering if these 3 choices would have any effect on slowing down my process at all or once I do my aptitude tests, etc they could offer different?

Thank you and sorry if this has been asked before


----------



## mariomike (4 Jan 2018)

Faller1985 said:
			
		

> Question regarding my application. I applied for regular forces / non-commision / unskilled and chose my 3 options I would like for career choices. I was wondering if these 3 choices would have any effect on slowing down my process at all or once I do my aptitude tests, etc they could offer different?
> 
> Thank you and sorry if this has been asked before



You may find this discussion helpful,

General Questions regarding your application [MERGED]
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:A2LgV4BKfDsJ:https://army.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D107882.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
35 pages.

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## BeyondTheNow (4 Jan 2018)

Faller1985 said:
			
		

> Question regarding my application. I applied for regular forces / non-commision / unskilled and chose my 3 options I would like for career choices. I was wondering if these 3 choices would have any effect on slowing down my process at all or once I do my aptitude tests, etc they could offer different?
> 
> Thank you and sorry if this has been asked before



I encourage you to read and absorb as much info as you can in the recruiting threads. While your question may not have been asked verbatim, there’s a lot of info which covers your scenario.

But yes, your recruiting process can vary in length from start to finish depending on the trade(s) one chooses. I can’t answer to what degree or exactly how long it would take. Generally speaking, once you complete your CFAT and/or the other components of the recruiting process, you’ll be informed as to whether or not you qualify for the trades you listed. (If you don’t qualify for your first choice, they’ll look at your second, and so on. If you don’t qualify for any of your selections you’ll be informed of which trades your scores allow you to be employed under.)

A member in recruiting may be around to offer more details, but that’s a quick bit to get you started. Again, please take it upon yourself to read as much as you can. It’s extremely rare that a question about the recruiting process comes along which hasn’t been addressed. Good luck!


----------



## mariomike (4 Jan 2018)

Faller1985 said:
			
		

> I was wondering if these 3 choices would have any effect on slowing down my process at all or once I do my aptitude tests, etc they could offer different?



See also,

TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/81054/post-774714.html#msg774714
The complete application process will vary in length depending on many factors.  Those who are in perfect physical condition, perfect health, no Criminal Record, good Credit Rating, good education credentials, good references, good marks on the CFAT, and fill the major criteria to join the CF will progress faster than those who may have a problem or two in those matters.  There is no guaranteed time that any part of the process will be completed.


----------



## Pusser (5 Jan 2018)

Louis_Army said:
			
		

> Yeah I'm skimming through them. I'm not looking for anything easy. I'm looking for something I have good chances of getting in on the spot.



Be careful what you wish for.  Getting in quickly will just lead to frustration and resentment if you end up in an occupation for which you are not suited (the CFAT is not perfect) or which you won't enjoy.  Although it is indeed possible to change occupations within the CAF, it can be a long, frustrating and not necessarily successful process.  Therefore, it's very important to make you initial selections carefully, as you may be doing that job for a long time Note that this does NOT mean you will be stuck in the same place, doing the same thing with no advancement.   The scope of any occupation in the CAF is wide and varied to the point that every posting can be different (i.e. your job can change every 2-3 years), but at the end of the day, all your jobs will still revolve around one basic skill set.  Frankly, I would argue that enjoyment of your occupation is far more important than advancement.  Although I have perhaps not advanced as far as I would have liked over the past 35 years, I can attribute this to a number of personal decisions that I do not regret for one moment.  I've had a hell of a lot of fun and am looking forward to a pretty comfortable retirement with a great pension.


----------



## RedcapCrusader (8 Jan 2018)

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> Please note that there is no guarantee to being selected for any occupation just by proceeding normally through the process.  The CAF gets over 40,000 applications a year and depending on the year, but on average only 5,000-6,000 of those applications are selected to receive an offer of employment.
> 
> While there are many of us on here who have spent many years in uniform, some even as recruiters - I would strongly encourage you to (1) take time to browse the occupations on the CAF website: and (2) visit your local CFRC to discuss the trades that you find interesting.



Buck,

Are you able to confirm or deny rumour that MPO has changed from specific degree requirements for entry/study and has now become an "Any Degree" officer Occupation?

Thanks.


----------



## da1root (8 Jan 2018)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Buck,
> 
> Are you able to confirm or deny rumour that MPO has changed from specific degree requirements for entry/study and has now become an "Any Degree" officer Occupation?
> 
> Thanks.


As of 30 October 2017 "Any Baccalaureate degree" is 'acceptable' to apply for MPO.  

Ideal Baccalaureate degrees are:

Criminal Justice
Crimonology
Emergency/Crisis and Disaster Management
Justice Studies (including Law & Justice and Human Justice)
Law (including Law & Society)
Police Science / Studies
Psychology
Sociology
Baccalauréat en sécurité publique
Baccalauréat en sécurité et études policières
Business Administration
Chemistry
Computer Science
Economics
Engineering, Any
English
French
History
Military and Strategic Studies
Mathematics
Politics
Psychology
Physics
Space science

Remember an "acceptable" entry standard doesn't mean you'll be processed, it's more there just in case there aren't enough "ideal" candidates.


----------



## FormerHorseGuard (16 Jan 2018)

Farming is a great life. Army life is a great life style and career.
Farms do not move around the country.
Army life moves across the country and can take you around the world.
You can still own the farm but do not expect to have time to farm or do chores as you might not be in the same postal code let alone same province.
If you want to join the Forces.some advice for you. 
1) sign up and see what happens. Get accepted. Then make the farm plan
2) get accepted. Look at renting the land out to a local farmer you know and trust. Get a legal contract done up. Make sure the farmer is fully insured and you are protected from accidents on your land.make sure you get paid rent or share of crop 
1
3) Rent any house on the land to a second party. ( make rent affordable and that it covers costs of up keep and taxes on the house)
4) any equipment you own use your judgement. No one will treat it as you will want it looked after.
5) once the farm is taken care of. Start your army career and remember you have a nest egg to come back to when you get out.
6) have family or friend have access to check your property for you. But follow local rental laws as to proper notice etc to visit property.


----------



## FJAG (16 Jan 2018)

I'm not sure what benefit a testamentary trust has in this situation. By definition, it is a trust which is created within your will at the time of your death so that the asset is not passed to the beneficiary completely, but under a manged structure.

As far as renting your farm out, most farmers that I have dealt with in the past, rent their farmland out under a crop share basis which leaves the tenant responsible for all the management of the land paying a percentage of the crops value to you each year. See a lawyer to ensure whatever agreement you make has all the terms that you want (including term of lease, structure and/or yardage included, equipment included, renewal options, condition the tenant has to leave the land in at end of lease etc.)

If the farm also has a residential structure that you wish to rent out ensure that you comply with any residential tenancy laws/regulations that apply in your province. Again, discuss it with your lawyer.

The advice that other posters have given you about what service is like is good. Take my word for it that regardless of whatever trade you are going into you will not have the time that you need to do anything other than check up on the farm occasionally. I had a battery commander who had a farm nearby once and while he rented it out he treated parts of it as a hobby farm on weekends - it was good for neither the battery nor the farm.

 :cheers:


----------



## EpicBeardedMan (19 Jan 2018)

Q.Lamb said:
			
		

> Alright everyone,
> 
> First off I want to thank you all for your replies. I read over them all several times.
> 
> ...



You've already made your decision but I'll add my 2 cents for what it's worth. I've made my best friendships in the CF. I was the best man to my best friend at his wedding (who I met on my BMQ) and I've been through things with these friends that noone else except other military members could even grasp. You will forge relationships like this in your career and some of the best times of your life will be in the CF. 

Your initial thoughts about worrying and cold feet are natural..I'll always remember on the bus ride from the airport to the Mega, a lot of guys were all talk..saying that they were going to pass BMQ no problem..no worries at all. They were gone by week 2. Go into it with an open mind and understand that for the most part, it's just a game at BMQ. Listen to your instructors, study when told to study, and help others in your platoon. Show up to your timings together and things will fall into place. 

The system works, just have faith in it...it's forged some pretty mighty people before you.


----------



## _Jacko (20 Jan 2018)

Wow I never thought I'd find a thread like this . I am in the exact same position as op is(or was) and have been battleing an inner war of my heart telling me to go and fear of uncertainty pushing me back. This has helped so much.  Thank you


----------



## kratz (20 Jan 2018)

Welcome to the sites, and congratulations on your next steps in through the application process.


----------



## Jelly_Bean (20 Jan 2018)

I would just like to say thank you as well for your opinions and personal stories. I myself have been going back and forth as the military has always been a dream of mine but the away from family and posted far away is what has me hesitant. I am single but very family oriented and with a 2 year old nephew and new niece I don't want to miss out on them growing up, I'm the fun aunt  (and only lol)
It sounds like others have not found this to be too hard of an issue (aside from training which I am prepared to be away).
Day to day, when settle down on your career most of you find it balanced like a civilian job? I wonder to how often you have to be reposted?
Thanks so much for all your help!


----------



## mariomike (20 Jan 2018)

Jelly_Bean said:
			
		

> Day to day, when settle down on your career most of you find it balanced like a civilian job? I wonder to how often you have to be reposted?





			
				Jelly_Bean said:
			
		

> I am applying as DEO into the Regular Force (Army) and top choices are Intelligence Officer and Training Development Officer.



You may find these discussion helpful,

"I want to be Int" Mega-thread  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12858.200
16 pages.

Training Development Officer?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110216.0
5 pages.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (20 Jan 2018)

Jelly_Bean said:
			
		

> I would just like to say thank you as well for your opinions and personal stories. I myself have been going back and forth as the military has always been a dream of mine but the away from family and posted far away is what has me hesitant. I am single but very family oriented and with a 2 year old nephew and new niece I don't want to miss out on them growing up, I'm the fun aunt  (and only lol)
> It sounds like others have not found this to be too hard of an issue (aside from training which I am prepared to be away).
> Day to day, when settle down on your career most of you find it balanced like a civilian job? I wonder to how often you have to be reposted?
> Thanks so much for all your help!



It can be like a civie job.  And in some ways it is worse/harder, and others it is better/easier.  Example, I managed to get the entire Christmas leave period this year; that translates to 23 days off in a row.  Other times, I've cancelled leave at the last minute when something came up and a crew had to go somewhere.  

Being posted...there are a lot of variables.  What trade, rank and qualifications you have;  if there is a need, you could be posted after 2 years in a location.  Conversely, I know people who have been posted to a location as a Cpl and have remained in that geographic location, and only posted 'locally' to different units on that Wing.  That was over 10 years now and he has been promoted to MWO recently.  On average, I'd go with something like 4-5 years between postings but as mentioned...depends on a lot of things that can't be forecast now or sometimes even a few months ahead of posting season.

Hope that helps some.


----------



## Jelly_Bean (21 Jan 2018)

Thank you Mariomike, I wish that TDO forum was on topic lol  :facepalm:

And thank you very much Eye In The Sky! Do you find that they try to keep you close to family when reposting or give you some options? I want so badly to make a career of the regular force it's just that part that has me hung up. I know I won't be in my home town but the hope is to be Borden or Kingston, manageable (4 hours from family)


----------



## Eye In The Sky (21 Jan 2018)

Basically, we get to let our Career Manager know what our 3 posting preferences are, and we can indicate why we prefer this locations.  Based on the needs of the service and desires of the member (needs of the service trump pretty much everything when push comes to shove...), the Career Manager will do what they can to strike the balance.

TDO is a decent trade for getting a posting to Borden or Kingston I'd think though (I have a friend who is a new TDO and was posted to Ktown);  the more Training Establishments and environments there are on a Base/Wing, the more TDO positions there are.  CDA is located partially at least, in Kingston and there are TDO positions there, although I am not sure how many.  Borden is a big training base as well, so there should be numerous TDOs there.  Comparatively speaking, the Wing I am posted to has 1 dedicated training establishment on it and there is 1 TDO on the entire Wing.

Sometime people get the posting they want, when they want it for the length of time they want it...others don't.  Lots of variables, but efforts are made to keep folks happy if at all possible.


----------



## mariomike (21 Jan 2018)

Jelly_Bean said:
			
		

> Thank you Mariomike, I wish that TDO forum was on topic lol  :facepalm:



You are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## Ki92 (11 Feb 2018)

Hello everyone,

Thank you to all of our brave veterans and those who are still serving.  I am a 25 year old woman and I picked infantry as my trade.  The trade has appealed to me since I was 17 and I am very grateful to be able to serve.  I just got the call last week and start Basic Training in a month.  I have always wanted to serve our country and I am quite excited.  However, my husband, who is currently serving as well, is concerned about my trade choice and I am worried that it will interfere with our marriage.  He is supportive but has been bringing up a lot of concerns this week.  I would love to hear some input or advice on this from anyone.  Thank you.

-Ki


----------



## mariomike (11 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> However, my husband, who is currently serving as well, is concerned about my trade choice and I am worried that it will interfere with our marriage.  He is supportive but has been bringing up a lot of concerns this week.  I would love to hear some input or advice on this from anyone.



How to get family on board  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13678.0
20 pages.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan (11 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> However, my husband, who is currently serving as well, is concerned about my trade choice and I am worried that it will interfere with our marriage.  He is supportive but has been bringing up a lot of concerns this week.  I would love to hear some input or advice on this from anyone.  Thank you.
> 
> -Ki



What's he concerned about? Your safety or the fact that you're entering a mainly male dominated trade? If he's the jealous type it will certainly eat him up, but there are men in every job, not just the CF. If he's insecure I can see that being an issue, that's something that he'd have to get comfortable with.


----------



## Jarnhamar (11 Feb 2018)

Purely anecdotal but after listening to a lot of op honour stories, examples and conversations  I'd honestly  say that I think women in the infantry seem to be treated better by their peers. More so than a lot of other trades. The two junior ncos I know are awesome, kick ass and don't take any shit and they're very respected.  

There is a closer commeradry in the combat arms and especially in the infantry but that doesn't translate into an increased risk (infidelity harassment or assault). Quite the opposite I think.

Corner your husband, tell him to stop beating around the bush (infantry joke eh?) and lay out exactly what his concerns are about you going infantry and discuss it. Whatever you do don't leave for training with unsettled business or bad communication hanging over you head. We need more infantry soldiers who really want to do the job and that sounds like you.


----------



## PuckChaser (11 Feb 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Corner your husband, tell him to stop beating around the bush (infantry joke eh?) and lay out exactly what his concerns are about you going infantry and discuss it. Whatever you do don't leave for training with unsettled business or bad communication hanging over you head.



I think this is some great advice and something that will serve you in your career. Adult conversations lead to adult answers and tend to ensure there's no underlying regret. I've always found its best to discuss career opportunities with my wife and hear her side before making a decision together.


----------



## Ki92 (11 Feb 2018)

Thanks for all the advice so far.  It is all good advice.  He seems to be most worried about my personality changing.  It’s really bothering him and it makes me feel like I’m putting my career ahead of my marriage.  Do you think I am?


----------



## mariomike (11 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the advice so far.  It is all good advice.  He seems to be most worried about my personality changing.  It’s really bothering him and it makes me feel like I’m putting my career ahead of my marriage.  Do you think I am?



Lots of advice for Service Couples
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&biw=1280&bih=603&ei=mAyBWqOtCIaItQW_yrjQCQ&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22service+couples%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22service+couples%22&gs_l=psy-ab.12...2935.7457.0.9582.2.2.0.0.0.0.65.130.2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.T_N27Ik0g1I


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## garb811 (11 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the advice so far.  It is all good advice.  He seems to be most worried about my personality changing.  It’s really bothering him and it makes me feel like I’m putting my career ahead of my marriage.  Do you think I am?


As long as you can avoid the temptation of chew, you'll be ok.

You're the only one who knows if you are putting your career ahead of your marriage, the same could be said if you don't go.  Are you putting your marriage ahead of your career?  There has to be a balance at some point and that is one of the biggest sticking points today.  People trying to balance it all (their career, spouse's career, marriage, kids, aging/sick parents, dogs, cats...)


----------



## BeyondTheNow (11 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the advice so far.  It is all good advice.  He seems to be most worried about my personality changing.  It’s really bothering him and it makes me feel like I’m putting my career ahead of my marriage.  Do you think I am?



Female here. Bottom line is your dreams/aspirations/goals are every bit as important as his. While stable home life is important, there are those (men and women) who want more out of life than being stuck at home and/or going to work every day in a job that does nothing else except pay the bills. 

If you feel passionate about this career path and want to give it a try, then I think it’s fair of your SO to support your endeavours. Will it involve change and adapting on both of your parts? Absolutely. But if he can’t offer support and encouragement, just as I’m assuming you’ve offered him, then that’s an issue.


----------



## brihard (11 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the advice so far.  It is all good advice.  He seems to be most worried about my personality changing.  It’s really bothering him and it makes me feel like I’m putting my career ahead of my marriage.  Do you think I am?



It sounds like you're being true to yourself and to something you have wanted and worked for for a long time. This isn't some sudden whim. A marriage needs to be a partnership of equals to truly succeed and flourish, and that means room for both people to move forward in life. I have no idea what you do right now, but I gather that it's not what ou want and that trying this option is.

'Personality' just isn't that malleable, and quite frankly that sounds like an unlikely thing for a guy to be primarily concerned about. It sounds like that was the palatable/acceptable answer to 'what are you worried about?' I could be completely wrong of course. I can easily imagine most guys not wanting their wife working in an infantry battalion due to various fears or insecurities, grounded or not.

It's OK to look after your own interests and to fight for what matters to you.


----------



## Ki92 (12 Feb 2018)

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> Female here. Bottom line is your dreams/aspirations/goals are every bit as important as his. While stable home life is important, there are those (men and women) who want more out of life than being stuck at home and/or going to work every day in a job that does nothing else except pay the bills.
> 
> If you feel passionate about this career path and want to give it a try, then I think it’s fair of your SO to support your endeavours. Will it involve change and adapting on both of your parts? Absolutely. But if he can’t offer support and encouragement, just as I’m assuming you’ve offered him, then that’s an issue.


Thank you.  This was so nice to get an answer from a female perspective.  I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.  And you’re right, I have slways supported all of his endeavours, so it doesn’t feel like too much to ask for him to support mine.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan (12 Feb 2018)

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> Female here. Bottom line is your dreams/aspirations/goals are every bit as important as his. While stable home life is important, there are those (men and women) who want more out of life than being stuck at home and/or going to work every day in a job that does nothing else except pay the bills.
> 
> If you feel passionate about this career path and want to give it a try, then I think it’s fair of your SO to support your endeavours. Will it involve change and adapting on both of your parts? Absolutely. But if he can’t offer support and encouragement, just as I’m assuming you’ve offered him, then that’s an issue.



^This. I attempted to word a response similar to this but failed, lol. BeyondTheNow put it perfectly.


----------



## Ki92 (12 Feb 2018)

Brihard said:
			
		

> It sounds like you're being true to yourself and to something you have wanted and worked for for a long time. This isn't some sudden whim. A marriage needs to be a partnership of equals to truly succeed and flourish, and that means room for both people to move forward in life. I have no idea what you do right now, but I gather that it's not what ou want and that trying this option is.
> 
> 'Personality' just isn't that malleable, and quite frankly that sounds like an unlikely thing for a guy to be primarily concerned about. It sounds like that was the palatable/acceptable answer to 'what are you worried about?' I could be completely wrong of course. I can easily imagine most guys not wanting their wife working in an infantry battalion due to various fears or insecurities, grounded or not.
> 
> It's OK to look after your own interests and to fight for what matters to you.


Thank you so much.  That last part is exactly how I feel right now.  I appreciate the sound advice.


----------



## PuckChaser (12 Feb 2018)

Be honest, joining the CAF is a life changing event regardless of trade. Just prepare your husband for the changes with a list of commonly used acronyms and phrases (heavy on the acronyms) that'll help him understand what the heck you're talking about all the time. Eventually he'll start using terms like "tracking" and fit right in.


----------



## dimsum (12 Feb 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Be honest, joining the CAF is a life changing event regardless of trade. Just prepare your husband for the changes with a list of commonly used acronyms and phrases (heavy on the acronyms) that'll help him understand what the heck you're talking about all the time. Eventually he'll start using terms like "tracking" and fit right in.



The OP said that her husband is currently serving, so that shouldn't be an issue.  

OP:  Aside from what others have said, my take on this (for what it's worth) isn't so much that he's concerned about you joining the Infantry, more that he's concerned about you changing (or starting) a career in the CAF.  Best to sit down with him and hash out his (and your) concerns before you actually start your career.


----------



## chrisf (12 Feb 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Best to sit down with him and hash out his (and your) concerns before you actually start your career.



This seems important.

He probably knows you better than strangers on the internet do, and may have a better idea of what you're getting into than the image a recruiter may have assembled for you.

This may not be a gender issue at all, maybe he just has concerns about you as an individual.

Maybe you'll do well, maybe you won't.

Best bet, sit down, talk about it, and agree to keep an open mind about each others oppinions.


----------



## mariomike (12 Feb 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Best to sit down with him and hash out his (and your) concerns before you actually start your career.





			
				Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Best bet, sit down, talk about it, and agree to keep an open mind about each others oppinions.





			
				Ki92 said:
			
		

> He is supportive but has been bringing up a lot of concerns this week.



The OP "applied 2 years ago". "Enrolment Feb.21st". 

Hopefully, they will resolve those concerns in the next nine days.


----------



## daftandbarmy (12 Feb 2018)

Ki92 said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Thank you to all of our brave veterans and those who are still serving.  I am a 25 year old woman and I picked infantry as my trade.  The trade has appealed to me since I was 17 and I am very grateful to be able to serve.  I just got the call last week and start Basic Training in a month.  I have always wanted to serve our country and I am quite excited.  However, my husband, who is currently serving as well, is concerned about my trade choice and I am worried that it will interfere with our marriage.  He is supportive but has been bringing up a lot of concerns this week.  I would love to hear some input or advice on this from anyone.  Thank you.
> 
> -Ki



Two of the best SNCOs in my (infantry) unit in the past 10 years are women. One's the top shot in the Commonwealth. The other went on to commission in Air Force (where she is kicking *** as a cross fit Nazi  ). Both are married to non-Infanteers. As far as I can tell, their biggest struggle is trying to find postings to the same locations.

20 years ago, I wouldn't counsel any women to join the Infantry. Now? As long as you pass the usual range of courses, it's as even a playing field as it has ever been.

And you can't tell them apart from the other troops with all that gear and cam cream on either


----------



## Piece of Cake (13 Feb 2018)

KI92,

The CAF has a lot of resources that you and your husband may find helpful.  You may want to stop by a MFRC, or have a conversation with a padre or a military social worker.  All of the above will be skilled in helping you and your husband process the issues.

Best of luck.


----------



## smallzeroman445 (21 Mar 2018)

Thanks for the info guys... I’m about so send my application in a few weeks ( just have to take care of a few things first which isn’t hard just takes time) I want to sign up as a combat engineer as I was told my 15 yrs carpentry experience would really help me.. I’m 35 I want to do this 5 hrs ago but as I was taking to a recruiter I ended up getting hurt at work ( my lower back.. muscle tear dr thinks ( testing and mri wasn’t showing anything concrete.. but at the time I couldn’t put weight on my legs.. all better now dr said I’m cleared to do what ever I want) any way I was asking some questions and got an email from someone here saying that even if I don’t have a degree or a B.A they would more then likely ask me to do officer training due to age , life and work experience.. I was running my own crew at 25 ... guys in there 40s under me and it was great we made a lot of money.. time for a change.. any truth to what I was told about officer training? It would be a bouns but not a deal breaker by any means.. ive been training for a month now wanna give myself one more month before I send application to make sure I’m ready to be sent out...


----------



## smallzeroman445 (21 Mar 2018)

Sorry using a phone atm.. and it will not spell check before you hit send .. sorry for the grammar errors


----------



## mariomike (21 Mar 2018)

For reference to the discussion, see also,



			
				smallzeroman445 said:
			
		

> New here.. I’m 35 and looking for a new challange.. plan on sending in an application in the next few week.. I’ve been a carpenter all my life .. run my own sites and looking after my crew and teaching.. I don’t have any papers to prove the trade.. just learned on site as a teenager and in my 20s and started teaching at 25.. was wondering if this would help me get in.. help make sure I get an offer.. is like to join as an engineer as my building experience would help a lot.. I’m just worried I may be to old to start.. I wanted to do this 5 yrs ago.. but had an accident .. now everything is falling into place and wanted to ask some advice from memeber who may have gone threw..i talked to a recruiter.. but was told just to fill out and hope
> For the best.. I don’t wanna waste anyone time so I came here
> 
> if anyone see this
> Thx





			
				smallzeroman445 said:
			
		

> I’m just worried I may be to old to start.



Am I too old to join/do well/fit in?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/207.0
14 pages.

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of up to date official information.


----------



## blessing (15 Apr 2018)

I'm 28 and considering applying to the RegF but I'm concerned that my employment and education history will hold me back. To put it simply, I've had a difficult time finding my calling in life, while also having to deal with personal/family issues.

During the last 5 years, I've attended two different colleges for two different programs and only completed one of them to which I received a one year certificate. My employment history in this time has been very spotty; I left on bad terms from one job I held for 9 months in 2013, and a couple other jobs that I only maintained for 1-4 months each. I understand this paints a pretty awful picture.

After years of contemplating the idea of applying to the CAF, I'm now at a point in my life where I feel it may be the best option for me. Knowing I cannot change my lackluster past, what is the best course of action for me going forward if I want to join the CAF?


----------



## da1root (17 Apr 2018)

blessing said:
			
		

> I'm 28 and considering applying to the RegF but I'm concerned that my employment and education history will hold me back. To put it simply, I've had a difficult time finding my calling in life, while also having to deal with personal/family issues.
> 
> During the last 5 years, I've attended two different colleges for two different programs and only completed one of them to which I received a one year certificate. My employment history in this time has been very spotty; I left on bad terms from one job I held for 9 months in 2013, and a couple other jobs that I only maintained for 1-4 months each. I understand this paints a pretty awful picture.
> 
> After years of contemplating the idea of applying to the CAF, I'm now at a point in my life where I feel it may be the best option for me. Knowing I cannot change my lackluster past, what is the best course of action for me going forward if I want to join the CAF?



Be honest in your interview with your MCC; you control the picture that you are painting so make sure to explain yourself.  Nothing more than that that you really can do in regards to your past.


----------



## Not in the army (26 Jan 2019)

Wondering how hard it is to get in the infantry? Are they always looking for more soldiers? On the website for recruiting it says the job is available so I’d assume you can get in.


----------



## da1root (31 Jan 2019)

Not in the army said:
			
		

> Wondering how hard it is to get in the infantry? Are they always looking for more soldiers? On the website for recruiting it says the job is available so I’d assume you can get in.


Short Answer: It's only as hard or easy as you make it.
Long Answer: The recruiting process is very detailed, there are several steps to enrolment, each step can cause you a hurdle (background check, medical, aptitude test, etc).  Infantry is one of the occupations that the CAF tends to recruit year round; it doesn't mean it's easier or harder to get in.  It happens to be one of the biggest occupations in the CAF.


----------



## Airlite (2 Jul 2019)

Hey, so when I was in high school and I had looked at the forces application it was like if you were applying to a specific job. Now when I look at the process it seems to me that they're hiring people and then placing people based on their competencies, so when you applying to the forces you're not really applying to position you're applying generally and then they place you?
And I just wanted to confirm that if you join the forces it's not only on a contract a contract basis (meaning that you may not have a job in 2 years). 

I'm currently a network analyst for a telecommunications company and have been for 5 years and I do not feel like my life has meaning right now and I want to change jobs but as much as I want my life to have meaning it also has to have stability.

What's the average lifespan of a career in the forces?


----------



## Attie3 (16 Jul 2019)

So I am thinking of joining and I am currently employed within PSSA. 

From my understanding, when I transfer in, it would be considered career development. Does that mean I would be able to receive my current salary during BMQ and training?

I've asked my recruitment centre but they don't know...

Any insight would be really appreciated. 
Thanks!


----------



## dapaterson (16 Jul 2019)

Joining Reg F or P Res?


----------



## Attie3 (16 Jul 2019)

Reg f


----------



## winds_13 (17 Jul 2019)

Attie3, if you join the RegF it simply would not be considered a transfer on the part of the CAF and will not affect your pay or selection for employment. It would be a new career, not a new direction for your current one within the Public Service, and require you to terminate your current employment. There also is no priority hiring scheme going from the Public Service to the military, as there is for released CAF members applying to the Public Service. 

That being said, you potentially can transfer your pensionable time from the Public Service to the CAF. Hope that helps.


----------



## jan31488 (17 Jul 2019)

While on RC today, I saw a Folder written with CLOSED /NFC  What does it mean?


----------



## OblivionKnight (19 Jul 2019)

jan31488 said:
			
		

> While on RC today, I saw a Folder written with CLOSED /NFC  What does it mean?



I believe it stands for "closed / no further contact"? I.e. files that were closed and there was no further contact between the recruiting centre and applicant.
My file folder had the same thing written on it.


----------



## TheDeparture (24 Jul 2019)

Hello everyone. This is my status.


Recruiting Center: London
Regular/Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: NCM
Trade Choice 1: ACIS
Application Date: July 12, 2019
First Contact: July 15, 2019
CFAT Test: Bypass due to previous CFAT 2007
Interview: July 29, 2019
Medical evaluation:  August 12, 2019
Reliability Screening:
Position Offered: 
Sworn in:  
Basic Training Begins: 

 I reapplied after a voluntary withdraw in 2007 and the process is going very quickly. Does anyone know when selection dates for ACIS generally are at this time of year with the current demand for personnel?

I was advised by the P.O. at my CFRC that I'm more than likely going to be selected as long as my interview and medical go well as I completed my CFAT in 2007, and they were really happy with the score and they advised me ACIS is in extremely high demand right now and it falls in line with what I love to do.

Does anyone have any insight as to what I should expect in terms of how long it may take to know if I am chosen and when my BMQ  may be? As far as I understand, ACIS BMQ is almost weekly.


----------



## da1root (26 Jul 2019)

Airlite said:
			
		

> Hey, so when I was in high school and I had looked at the forces application it was like if you were applying to a specific job. Now when I look at the process it seems to me that they're hiring people and then placing people based on their competencies, so when you applying to the forces you're not really applying to position you're applying generally and then they place you?
> And I just wanted to confirm that if you join the forces it's not only on a contract a contract basis (meaning that you may not have a job in 2 years).
> 
> I'm currently a network analyst for a telecommunications company and have been for 5 years and I do not feel like my life has meaning right now and I want to change jobs but as much as I want my life to have meaning it also has to have stability.
> ...



The recruiting steps are in the process of changing; at one point in time you had to list up to 3 preferred occupations and then you wrote the CFAT.  It is changing to be that you will write the CFAT; you will be given a list of occupations you qualify for and you can pick up to 3 that you would like to do.

Military members are on contracts, the initial contract length (called a VIE) ranges from 3 years to 13 years depending on the occupation and entry plan that you are joining.  After the initial VIE you may be offered an extension beyond the initial VIE based on your performance.

The average length of a career in the CAF varies, as stated above the initial contract length is 3 years - some people release prior to this for various reasons and others stay to retirement (pension commences at 25 years of service and maxes out after 35 years of service); from a personal note I have just entered my 21st year of service and work alongside many individuals who are 30+ years.


----------



## da1root (26 Jul 2019)

BMQ Dates: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/basic-training/recruit-school.html
BMQ is not done by occupation; your start date is based on when you are selected for enrollment, right now they're loading individuals on serials 108 & 109.


----------



## Rei (21 Aug 2019)

Hello all,

I've been deliberating between several trades and trying to pick which one I should pick, but am at an impasse and would seriously love so other people's perspectives. Talking to the recruiter has helped, but their answer still left some questions that I am trying to work out on my own. 

My background is a undergraduate with a degree in Science (Kinesiology), and turning 24 next year. Not the best student, averaging about a C+/B- range. 

The trades that I've been looking at are Med Tech, Armoured Officer and Air Combat System Officer. I realize that these are quite unrelated to each other. Med Tech is something that I really want to do (My childhood dream to to become a paramedic/medic), but I've read that it is a Non-Commissioned position, which to my knowledge means their is a cap on rank and salary. And I've emailed the Forces recruiter in Victoria about how hard it was to earn a commission, to which their reply was that "You would be able to commission into an equivalent trade" which they stated was a Health Care Admin. A lot of people I've talked with who have military friends recommended that I should try to get in as a officer, as that will be better for my future, so I have stated Armoured Officer and ACSO which do look interesting. But I would just really like some other opinions on this.

If it helps, my goal is to try to get into DART (I realize this is more of a chance thing) or as a SAR Tech (also apparently a once in a blue moon thing from what I've read). But I really want to help people on the medical side and be out in the field.

Thanks for your time.


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## brihard (21 Aug 2019)

Out of those three options, if you have aspirations for DART or especially for SAR, MedTech is the way to go.

Yes, officers get paid more. As far as rank goes, understand that we have noncommissioned ranks, and commissioned (officer) ranks. There is still a lot of progression and I would say a hell of a lot more technical specialization in the noncommissioned ranks generally, and certainly looking at MedTech versus Armour or ACSO.

Our MedTechs are trained and qualified paramedics. Incidentally if you compete for and achieve selection for SAR, you have to get trained in that anyway, so it gives you a bit of a leg up in that respect.

You were told one thing that was but no longer is accurate, and that has to do with commissioning from the ranks into similar work. CAF Health Services has Physicians Assistants, a hard medical trade. They used to be senior MedTechs, generally Warrant Officer and up. My understanding is that they are now commissioned officers. Someone else on this site will be able to shed more light on that for you.

For my money I’d say go med tech if that’s where your dreams lie.


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## mariomike (21 Aug 2019)

Rei said:
			
		

> (My childhood dream to to become a paramedic/medic), but I've read that it is a Non-Commissioned position, which to my knowledge means their is a cap on rank and salary.





			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> Our MedTechs are trained and qualified paramedics.



Paramedic licensure is set by the provincial regulators. 

In Ontario, to be emplyed as a PCP, you must first become an AEMCA.



> 5. (1) The operator of a land ambulance service shall not employ a person to provide patient care, whether on a full-time or part-time basis, or engage a person to provide patient care as a full-time volunteer, unless the person is a paramedic who, holds the qualifications of an advanced emergency medical care assistant  ( AEMCA )





> Recognition of QL5A & Challenge of AEMCA exam:
> 
> Reference A is a confirmation letter by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, Emergency Health Services Branch, recognizing the CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam, all QL5 Med Techs are encouraged to prepare for and write this exam with approval through their Chain of Command.  Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario.



QL5 Med Techs who wish to challenge the AEMCA require an additional of 120 hrs. minimum of field placement in Ontario. 

Regarding Med Techs and Paramedic licensure,

Medics requiring to maintain a license  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/107868.0

Concerning the training and education at the CAF  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/130059/post-1566031.html#msg1566031
Licensure of paramedics is the responsibility and domain of the various provincial regulatory bodies.


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## Rei (21 Aug 2019)

Thank you very much for the replies, as they have shed light on various things. 

Reading the link from mariomike, am I to understand that if I am accepted into the CAF as a Med Tech, I will be trained and certified to the QL3 level? I currently reside in BC, so I am not certain whether this would mean that I could become a paramedic/PCP outside of the CAF. And as for the progression to QL5 and AEMCA, is it a natural progression from QL3 that I will encounter moving along as a Med Tech, or an examination that I would have to look for outside of the CAF?

Additionally, is there any type of eyesight requirement for Med Tech, as I wear glasses and cannot find any information on the internet regarding this mater.


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## mariomike (21 Aug 2019)

Rei said:
			
		

> I am not certain whether this would mean that I could become a paramedic/PCP outside of the CAF.



Good luck.


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Aug 2019)

Rei said:
			
		

> Additionally, is there any type of eyesight requirement for Med Tech, as I wear glasses and cannot find any information on the internet regarding this mater.



The website linked below has all the information regarding medical standards for the CAF including the medical category requirements for each individual trade.  

Canadian Armed Forces Medical Standards (CFP 154)

Annex A will explain what each component of the Med Cat is for/means as well as the Common Enrolment Medical Standard requirements.

Annex E will allow you to find the requirements for each trade in the CAF.


As for selecting a trade, whether it be NCM or Officer. my advice is pick the one you can see yourself doing for XX years.  Whether NCM or Officer, you may not be able to move between trades for a variety of reasons or factors.  Yes, Officers tend to make more in salary, but NCMs can make close to their pay.  Example, SAR Techs receive Specialist Level 2 pay and Rescue Specialist Allowance (starts at $595/month).


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## cyl2chan (29 Aug 2019)

I have a law degree from UK (but not a qualified lawyer). In the officer route, may I know what trade I am qualified for? 

Thanks!


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## winds_13 (12 Sep 2019)

cyl2chan said:
			
		

> I have a law degree from UK (but not a qualified lawyer). In the officer route, may I know what trade I am qualified for?
> 
> Thanks!



cyl2chan, 

If you have not already ordered one, you will require an acadademic credential assessment (ex. IQAS) to determine the equivalency of your degree. Assuming that it will state equivalency to a bachelors, you would qualify for all Officer occupations that accept "any bachelors degree" for Direct Entry (DEO). Off the top of my head, this list includes: Infantry Officer, Artillery Officer, Armoured Officer, Logistics Officer, Intelligence Officer, Pilot, Aerospace Controller, Air Combat Systems Officer, Signals Officer, Military Police Officer, and Naval Warfare Officer.

If you want to apply as a Legal Officer, you'll have to be called to the bar and be of good standing by the Law Society of a Canadian Province. It is a highly competitive trade and your experience within the legal profession will be given significant consideration.


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## coyote489 (5 Nov 2019)

Here’s a question for a friend,

My buddy, who wishes not to post on here, got a taste of the green weeny even before joining the forces. 

The guy applied for a fairly competitive trade, but the dude could easily score TC on any course. He calls the CFRC ,as everyone does, for an update on his file as he was merit listed. Ole Joe the recruiter tells him “congratulations, you have an offer coming your way, expect a call Friday or Monday with the full details and offer package. 

So Wednesday of the next week approaches and... no call, he calls ole Joe recruiter (Same guy) back and asks about his offer. He is told oh I don’t know what your talking about, there is no offer, you are 13 of 6 positions....

I had a hard time with this one and haven’t the slightest clue of recruiting policy so I’d like to hear it from some of you if he can do anything or does he bite the bullet and carry on to another trade choice?

Let er rip, let’s here some opinions. Thanks in advance.


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## coffeeaddict (8 Nov 2019)

coyote489 said:
			
		

> Here’s a question for a friend,
> 
> My buddy, who wishes not to post on here, got a taste of the green weeny even before joining the forces.
> 
> ...




Disclaimer: I have not joined the forces yet, but I have put together things I read and heard enough to maybe help answer your questions about your buddy.

Merit listed pretty much means he has been deemed qualified (meeting minimum requirements) for the job he applied and is now in an inventory. When an opening comes up, an HR person open the electronic inventory, clicks filter button like hiring a new mercenary in a computer game, looks over their stats (CFAT, TDS, and Interview scores), as well as notes on their background, skills (such as language), and other details about them. HR person decides who to match with any offers. Being merit listed only means getting a spot in the potential hiring digital group inventory for that job.

When the recruiting personnel called him and told him "expect a call Friday or Monday with the full details and offer package.", I think they meant exactly, or literally, that it is expected. A lot of people expect to have kids one day with their SO, but ends up getting divorced. This is usually due to unexpected events.

So when their expectation of a coming offer is squashed, the unexpected events can be probably due to a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

1. Someone with a perfect CFAT score (and from my experience taking it, I think it's definitely not uncommon) may have gotten merit listed during those few days, and the HR person picked them.

2. A list of candidates from the pool of existing CF members applied to transfer to your buddy's trade, and with some stellar recommendations by superior officers etc, they may have gotten bumped up the inventory ranking, ahead of your buddy.

So pretty much it comes down to: any time anyone more competitive than your buddy gets merit listed, he gotta wait longer. The unexpected can often happen. Hope he can find ways to de-stress and focus himself on keeping busy elsewhere. 



When the recruiting personnel said "oh I don’t know what your talking about, there is no offer, you are 13 of 6 positions...."

I'm pretty sure they get hundreds of calls a week, and if they had to look your buddy up, they may not remember the exact words they told your buddy a few days ago. Maybe the first time your buddy called, they were sympathetic, and just want to share the good news that they expect, which they also hoped would make your buddy happy. The second time your buddy called, they checked the system, and could only conclude from the information in front of them, that he has yet to receive an offer, as well as his ranking within the inventory.

So pretty much, I think your buddy can simply find comfort in that the person that he called probably was not intentionally trying to dupe him. Anyone in the same position who cares about your buddy or is excited to share the good news would have also said the same thing they are expecting, but when the unexpected happens, they would not be able to follow through. Unexpected stuff happens.


"""does he bite the bullet and carry on to another trade choice?"""

I think if the job he applied is what he want to do, then ranked 13 for 6 positions is extremely good comparing to my experience at private and public companies, where there are typically 500-1000 applicants ranked for each 1 position we hired. And when new position comes out, we post a new competition. However, it seems that for CF, your buddy do not have to reapply for every position that opens up. It is automatically done for him. No 5 interviews for each 5 new openings coming up etc. If you ask me, this is a cakewalk comparing to the private sector I'm used to. xD


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## coyote489 (8 Nov 2019)

Thanks coffeeaddict, a Well put together answer,

100% get where you are coming from, however I was talking more in terms of policy recruiters have to follow. This seems a bit weird to me is all. Was hoping maybe someone with some first hand recruiting experience could step in and answer. Not much of a big deal anyways, the guy has moved on and selected another trade.


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## winds_13 (8 Nov 2019)

coyote489,

It may have been that the recruiter was simply looking at the wrong person's application when he was looking at the Competition List, perhaps the last person they talked to. I've even seen multiple people through the same recruiting centre with the same first and last name with open applications, which can easily cause confusion.

As far as where an applicant sits on the Competition List, it comes down to the CFAT along with relevant experience and education. Skilled applicants (previous CAF members applying to go back to their old trade) also always get selected over unskilled applicants. Letters of reference and knowing the right people are not even considered. References are used for determination of reliability and the provision of security clearances, not competitiveness.


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## BeyondTheNow (8 Nov 2019)

coyote489 said:
			
		

> Thanks coffeeaddict, a Well put together answer,
> 
> 100% get where you are coming from, however I was talking more in terms of policy recruiters have to follow. This seems a bit weird to me is all. Was hoping maybe someone with some first hand recruiting experience could step in and answer. Not much of a big deal anyways, the guy has moved on and selected another trade.



BUCK_HRA is the mod-in-the-know for all recruiting questions. However, as he can be quite busy at times and this is strictly a volunteer gig, he can't always be here as often as he'd like.

Everyone else (unless they're a Recruiter or are in direct contact with one) can only offer possibilities or very limited insight based off their own experiences and what they _*think*_ might be going on. Oversights occur from time to time and no one is trying to intentionally or maliciously screw over your friend. 

Tell your friend to register for an account and he can PM Buck directly. It would remain private and there's no obligation for your friend to participate publicly on this forum. Buck could lend him the most insight of anyone.

For what it's worth, also tell your friend that my process from application to BMQ took almost 3 yrs--Oct 2011 to Sept 2014. (This is mainly due to the trade I first applied to.) Anyway, you can imagine my frustrations over the course and I was sometimes told conflicting information. At the time there was a recruiter on these boards who was tremendously helpful. Networking and patience is crucial in all walks of life and there are always those willing to help. Tell your friend to put himself out there if he wants answers.


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