# Paid Education [Merged]



## cocoa (25 Feb 2003)

I was just recently enrolled into communications reserves a couple of weeks ago, and I was planning to stay there until I finished my degree, then join the regs. By my school raised the tuition by 50% this year and 40% next year. Evidently, my plan has change and I feel Iike a big flake for doing this. I went to my unit asking for a component transfer. Also, my occupation is closed so I have to change, from a limeman to infantry. But I do not Know   what all my options are and I would like to know. I would like to now join the regs, and finish my degree, could this be done?   Do you know if the reserves has tuition reimbursement? Please feel free to comment on my situation as I am intrested in everyone's opinion. Thank you.


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## stivic923 (25 Feb 2003)

Buddy, I think that while you are in the Res, you are going to have to fork out the cash for tuition.

If you are in the Regs and you enroll as an officer and try to obtain your degree, the CF will pay your tuitionl.
I know about this because I acquired about it a while ago.


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## stivic923 (25 Feb 2003)

Also, if you want the best and most accurate advice in regards to your problem, take a cruise on down to your CFRC and talk to one of them. They would be more than willing to answer any questions you may have.

Mike Rogers


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## Korus (25 Feb 2003)

The reserves do offer higher education incentives. They will reimburse 50% of your tuition, or $2000 (which ever is lower) for up to 4 years for your first degree.

In the regs, you can do ROTP, either at RMC or your Uni, depending on what you‘re studying. Also, the regs offer an educational incentive for NCMs, but you need a few years service before you can apply for that.


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## Marti (25 Feb 2003)

ROTP at RMC might not be the best idea, as you will likely have to start from first year. ROTP at a civy U is a pretty good deal because you can apply no matter what year you‘re in. they will pay your full tuition as well as an allowance for textbooks and a salary (if you live in res, room and board will not be included-i think). you will have to spend the better part of your summers training, and about five years‘ service in the reg force will be required after completion of schooling.


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## SpinDoc (25 Feb 2003)

Keep in mind that the reimbursement that Korus described is contingent on having completed basic training (if they haven‘t changed the rules since I last inquired).

Which probably means that you will probably be eligible for the reimbursement summer ‘04 to pay for ‘03-‘04 school year if you finish your basic training summer ‘03.


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## NMPeters (26 Feb 2003)

The following is an excerpt from ADM (HR-MIL) Instruction 04-01

Eligibility: Members on the effective strength of a P Res unit or establishment who:

1. Are registered at a Canadian post-secondary institution in a course leading to an initial baccalaureate degree or any other non-universtiy post-secondary course formally recognized as an equivalency for the member‘s MOC IAW DAOD 5031-1;

2. Successfully complete the military basic training course specified by the member‘s P Res element; and

3. Maintain continuous service during the academic year claimed. (Special provisions apply to new enrolees or members medically released.)

Entitlements: For courses started after 1 Sep 00, the lesser of 50% of tuition and mandatory course costs to a maximum of $2,000 in a fescal year will be reimbursed each Sep for courses successfully completed in the preceding academic year (Sep-Aug). The maximum benefit to an individual is $8,000.

Supplementary Information: 

*  Benefits may be claimed upon transfer between P Res and Regular Force components of the CF based on the course completion date.

*  Continuous service is defined as full time or part-time service in the P Res. If a member interrupts continuous service for more than 30 days (except for maternity or parental leave), the member may not claim reimbursement for the academic year during which continuous service is broken....such as leave without pay, limitation of payments, suspension from duty, forfeitures imposed and non-effective strength

* Time limit: Members have one year from the Sep in which the entitlement is earned to claim reimbursement.

The entire instruction with application forms can be found at:  http://vcds.mil.ca/cas/dmcs/fileso/DMCS5755.tif


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## McG (27 Feb 2003)

If you are thinking of joining the Reg Force anytime after your education is complete:

Keep in mind that there are recruiting allowances for several Reg Force MOCs ($10,000 to $80,000).  The most you can get from the PRes education reimbursement is $8,000.  However, if you receive any money from the PRes education reimbursement, then you cannot receive any money through a recruiting allowance.

. . . then again, there is no guarantee that a recruiting allowances will still be around later.


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## haplo6 (13 May 2003)

I have received two installments of the CF education re-imbursement totalling $4000.  I am still due another 4 but right now I‘m on EDT for a year (until Jan. 2004).  Does anyone know how long it is before I can re-apply and become eligable for the money again?


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## cheechue (15 May 2003)

Hmm...interesting...how did you get $4000? The max is supposed to be $2000 for each school year up to a max of four years


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## cheechue (15 May 2003)

sorry...it won‘t let me edit my post...

I didn‘t read your two installments part...so that explains the $4000 part...anyhow...you can apply again once you complete another year of school.


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## haplo6 (19 May 2003)

Thanks cheechue but I don‘t think that quite answers my question, maybe I wasn‘t entirely clear.  I‘m still enrolled in school and actually have completed another year.  I should be due another 2 grand but right now I don‘t qualify because I am on EDT.  How long after I come off EDT do I have to wait to re-apply?  I‘m pretty sure that there is some kind of waiting period.


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## Deleted member 585 (20 May 2003)

If your reimbursement plan is part of the PEP, the specific info you seek is likely only on the DWAN, but here‘s what I found so far:

 http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/pep/engraph/admin_e.asp 

Cheers.


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## hhour48 (21 May 2003)

Is this money taxable or not?


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## McG (21 May 2003)

The Primary Reserve Education Reimbursement is non-taxable.

See this Related Thread for its darker side.


. . . and this one.


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## haplo6 (22 May 2003)

Thanks a lot McG. 

I had no idea that receiving the education 
re-imbursement meant I was ineligable for a Reg Force signing bonus.  Doesn‘t matter too much because I was never considering it as an option.  It still bugs me though.  That information didn‘t exist at my regiment when I received my first two installments.  I have read everything that was available on it and it seems to be a very gray area.  Clerks were and still are unsure of who qualifies and what steps to take.  Both times it took 10 months for them to process my application.  The second time I got my money they said I had to give it back because I was going to Germany for 1 year to work as an Engineer and needed to go EDT.  Apparently if you receive the money you cannot go EDT or NES for 1 year after the date that you finished the last semester the CF reimbursed you for.  When I found out I fell into that catagory I was furious and began contacteing my higher ups about the situation.  Eventually my OC called NDHQ and they said don‘t worry about it, I‘m OK and don‘t have to give it back.  I still expect a bill when I get home for $2000!

Situations like these make me wonder why I stay in....oh ya, because eventually they will have to give another $4000!


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## McG (23 May 2003)

As long as you were not NES during the year for which you are claiming, you are entitled to the Education Reimbursement.  It does become taxable if you leave the reserves in the year after you claim.


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## Christopher (18 Jun 2003)

Finally finished my CFAT, medical, and interview. Cleared for my trade! Yes!

Anyway, I‘ve been told that as a reservist, you are eligible for a post-secondary tuition refund.

I asked the person that was interviewing me, and she had said that the offer only stands for regular force applicants. But I know that my friend as a Sig Op reservist received a tuition rebate.

Could someone straighten this out for me? Do only people in the communication reserve receive this offer?


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## D-n-A (18 Jun 2003)

takin off my units website www.12servicebattalion.com

Tuition reimbursement. $2000 per year or 50% of your tuition (whichever is lower) up to a maximum of four years or $8000. You must be in a program of post-secondary education leading to your first undergraduate degree or in a field of studies applicable to your military occupational trade.


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## Ruthless4Life (15 Jul 2003)

I have two quick questions:

1. When will I get the benefits of the Army Reserves helping pay university/college tuition fees? When I finish Basic Recruit training?

2. I plan in studying in university/college while in the Army Reserves and therefore I can only take my Basic and MOS training during summers. If I take Basic in year 1 and have to wait till next summer for my MOS training, am I able to train during that year at a local regiment without a MOS?

THANKS,

Ruthless


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## D-n-A (16 Jul 2003)

MOS is american

Canadian is MOC

as for tuition, here‘s the info takin off my unit‘s website

Reserve
Tuition reimbursement. $2000 per year or 50% of your tuition (whichever is lower) up to a maximum of four years or $8000. You must be in a program of post-secondary education leading to your first undergraduate degree or in a field of studies applicable to your military occupational trade.


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## Ruthless4Life (16 Jul 2003)

Thanks for the correction DNA.

I just e-mailed the same thing to a recruiter and he told me he doesn‘t know and told me to go to a local regiment and ask them.

For my second question regarding the training without MOC, I found out in the 12 Medical Company website that they have a Training Platoon for people that are not trained yet, but I‘m not sure if it applies to other regiments such like infantry, armor, engineer, etc. BUT I want to be a MED A, so I guess it‘s a good thing and I‘ve got what I want.


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## D-n-A (16 Jul 2003)

PAT Plt?

all new guys untill they‘ve done there BMQ are in PAT Plt as far as I know, it just get‘s you ready for your BMQ course, mine did


good luck to you as a Med A


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## McInnes (26 Aug 2003)

<div align="center">*<u>Education</u>*</div align>
The Canadian Forces have recently announced a plan to compensate its members, including reservists, who are upgrading their education if that education is related to the memberâ€™s trade. In brief, the Canadian Forces will repay 50 percent of all tuition, books and fees, up to a maximum of $2,000 per year. This benefit is tax-free. 

<div align="center"><u>Royal Military College of Canada</u></div align>

Check out RMCâ€™s website for more information.
The Royal Military College of Canada 


Q. If accepted it says you do basic training in the summer previous to 1st year, would that mean after I complete high school they would send me straight to basic? 

A. Yes.


Q. What should I prepare for before I apply to go to RMC?

A. Participate in team sports. Be physically fit.
There is no set minimum academic average for RMC. However, 80% is usually the lowest that will be considered. Although 90% seems to be what you should be aiming for.
Volunteer in your community. Assume leadership roles such as heading a committee or something like student council.


Q. What types of classes should I take and which are most important to get into RMC?

A. Sciences are a must for engineering applicants, but are always helpful. Take leadership courses and psychology if available.
 Take Math, English, and your Social Sciences.  


Q. How long will I have to serve with the Canadian Forces after I graduate from RMC? 

A. The normal period of obligatory service for ROTP is five years after graduation, but in some Military Occupations, such as pilot, this period can be longer.


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## y2kroachman (13 Mar 2004)

Hi im joining the reserves and i wanted to know if i can be a jtf-2 ninja sniper LOL joke. No, really the situation is i will be returning to school in september and i wanna get my bach in computer science and wanted to know education opportunities for reimbursement, not rotp, could any one help me out or point me in the right direction, not dnd site been there.

Thx all!

y2k


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## nULL (13 Mar 2004)

i believe the forces can give you $2000 dollars a year max for educational reinbursement, but don‘t quote me on that. if you‘ve gotten your application yet, details should be in there.

you have to pass all your classes (yes, even calculus) and you‘ll probably have to take out another job, because 2000 dollars a year won‘t even take you through the first semester.


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## koach (13 Mar 2004)

First read DAOD 5031-3 Reimbursement under the CF Personal Enhancement Program (available on the internet).  Then contact the unit to which you have applied and ask them if they have any information.  I don‘t have the document in front of me but I heard that there are some recent changes to this program that affects the reserves.

This information will probably not help you because in order to be entitled to reimbursement as a member of the reserves, you must have completed either three years continuous service or four years cumulative service.

The only other thing that I can think of is CEOTP.


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## Spartan (13 Mar 2004)

thought you only had to have one yr with the unit to then apply for tuition reimbursement??


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## rdschultz (6 Apr 2004)

I know I‘m jumping the gun here, but I‘m curious than anything. I have to get accepted first, obviously, and then depending on the circumstances in a number of years I‘d have to see if its still feasible.  But I figure, what the heck, I‘ll ask.

I‘m referring to this:   Educational Reimbursement, specifically the officer advanced degree part time.  I‘ve thought for some time that I‘d be interested this in civilian life, and I don‘t think my decision to join the CF changes this much.  

The questions I have pertain to its availability.  It mentions in the ADM(HR-MIL) Instruction that the CF forsees a need for senior officers to have an advanced degree.  Does this mean that junior officers aren‘t likely to get this?  

It also mentions that it depends on budget limitations.  Now based on current financial issues with the forces, I could definitely understand this being such a low priority that it recieves little funding.  This also goes back to the junior officer remark in that if little funds are available then I assume they‘re awarded on some sort of seniority basis.  But I‘m more curious if this is such strictly funding-strapped that its technically available according to the books, but its really not feasible for the average officer.

I guess I‘m more curious than anything, because if its not available its still something that I‘d like to do out of my own pocket.  Its just the recruiting office really seemed to play the availability of post-graduate education, so I‘m more curious if its fill out the forms and the CO will approve it, or if its really quite competitive.  The one clerk at the place mentioned that he‘d be working on a part-time bachelors for years, and it was basically available to everybody who applied.

And just for the record, the program I‘ve been looking at is a Master of Science in Electrical Engineering through a distance learning program.


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## rdschultz (6 Apr 2004)

Also, I‘m not sure if this applies to recruiting per se, but I wasn‘t quite sure where to post it.  

And I‘m thinking this topic might be a long shot to get answered, but I‘m hoping that one of the regular officers who reads this has looked into it before or perhaps knows someone who has.


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## bossi (6 Apr 2004)

At this point in time, the CF helps you obtain your "first" degree without too much hesitation.

However, it‘s a little more difficult to get subsidies for a Masters‘ degree.

My kneejerk reaction is that you‘ll be busy enough/have your hands full for the first little while after you‘re enrolled - then, once you come up for air, you‘ll have been in long enough to know the ins and outs about subsidies for Masters‘ programmes.

The most conservative advice would be "don‘t hold your breath", at least not right away ...

Having said all of that, the Masters‘ you‘re considering is probably one that‘s fairly attractive for the CF - a point in your favour, but then again ... it might also be coloured by the university issuing it (I‘ve got a funny hunch they‘d prefer Canadian universities to foreign, unless there‘s some unique benefit to spending our money abroad ...)


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## rdschultz (6 Apr 2004)

Yeah, I‘m knowingly looking into this with a little naivety.  My thinking was along the same lines as what you said, I‘ll probably have my hands full.  Plus, I‘m single and unattached to anything right now, and that could all change in three or four years (which is probably the most realistic guess of when I would look into this). These are the circumstances I alluded to originally that could very well change. Also I wouldn‘t even consider this idea until all my training is done, and thats at least two years off anyways.  

But its good to know that its generally more difficult than a bachelors degree.  Its not the answer I was hoping for, but at least I don‘t get too locked into the idea.


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## Stakhanov (24 Jun 2004)

I have heard a rumour that this is being cancelled...if it is, when is it cancelled?  Is it already?


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## PTE Gruending (24 Jun 2004)

I have heard this rumour as well... both from members on this board, and people in my unit who have heard in a round-about way. This totally sucks....


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## Korus (24 Jun 2004)

What's been passed down to me is that it was a trial program, and the period for which it was supposed to last is comming to an end, and they don't know if it will be renewed or not. There has been some pressure from the brass for extending it until a replacement program can be put in place, but I haven't heard any news (good or bad).

So watch and shoot. I'd really like to see it extended, it really helps with tuition.


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## Fruss (24 Jun 2004)

Heu..  Sorry to ask that, but what's about reimbursement in this tread??


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## R031button (24 Jun 2004)

I can't believe their thinking of discontinuing the renbursment program. I mean, I know of at least 7 or 8 other recruits(to a regiment of about 100) that are joining primarily for the educational advantage. If the army wants to build up it's number, as I am sure it does, it should be pushing programs in, not cutting them back.


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## mattoigta (24 Jun 2004)

R031button said:
			
		

> I can't believe their thinking of discontinuing the renbursment program. I mean, I know of at least 7 or 8 other recruits(to a regiment of about 100) that are joining primarily for the educational advantage. If the army wants to build up it's number, as I am sure it does, it should be pushing programs in, not cutting them back.



Definately, this is really unwise, IMO


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## Tpr.Orange (24 Jun 2004)

This rumor isn't a rumor its true.... Our unit already started a petition within the unit about the cancellation of the reinbursement program. Because of it we have already gained 80 plus signatures I suggest doing this in your own units so it can be passed up the chain of command


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## NMPeters (24 Jun 2004)

This is NOT the Army cancelling a program. This was a trial, conducted by the HR world within the Canadian Forces, that is scheduled to complete in August of this year. The Army is actively petitioning to have this program continued. The Army realizes its benefits and wants it continued as much as everyone else does. I'm sure the Navy, Air and other commands are also concerned that this trial is soon ending.


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## ags281 (24 Jun 2004)

I should certainly hope they continue it, or at least create a similar replacement. With the difficulty of getting on course and lack of a guarantee for summer work, the education bonus is just about the only thing that students can be positive they'll get sometimes. Without that program, I'm pretty sure many units would start to die, as a number of students would have to give it up for other jobs that are more reliable. Tossing out the primary recruitment demographic wouldn't be cool. I think that, right up to the very top, people have realized the value of the program during this trial and will keep it around (or at least I hope).


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## ZipperHead (24 Jun 2004)

I'm curious as to what end a petition would have on a government policy. Call me cynical, but the powers that be aren't going to be swayed by a petition. I'm sure if the members of the Canadian Airborne Regiment circulated a position to stop their disbandment, it would have received 10's of thousands of signatures (or hundred's of thousands....). I don't think that would have swayed their (the gov't) decision. 

A classic line comes to mind: "We're here to defend democracy, not practice it". I'm not a barrack block lawyer (enough in this forum already....) but I think a petition could be a dangerous thing to be running around with. Let your shop steward handle the matter. Oh, I forgot, we're not in a union, either...... Holding your breath until your face turns blue won't work, either.

Learn to accept what comes your way. You're a member of the military, not an office drone, who can go on strike because they cancelled the company picnic.

Al


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## Stakhanov (25 Jun 2004)

So it will be coming to an end in August, as the trial period is over?  I dunno, one would almost think you could get the government on false advertising, as all the recruitment posters I see on busses etc, still have that program advertised in shiny big bold letters, just waiting to sap in us poor university students!.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Nov 2004)

Excuse the "all caps", that's how CANFORGENS get published.


*CANFORGEN 135/04 ADMHRMIL 068 021526Z NOV 04
EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT- PRIMARY RESERVE (P RES)*

UNCLASSIFIED

REFS: A. CBI 210.801 
B. ADM(HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 04/01 

1. A FOUR-YEAR TRIAL TO PROVIDE EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT FOR THE P RES
CONCLUDED IN AUG 04. THE TRIAL WAS MOST SUCCESSFUL AND IT IS BEING
IMPLEMENTED AS A SUBSTANTIVE CF PROGRAM THAT INCLUDES BOTH UNDERGRADUATE AND
GRADUATE PROGRAMS AT CANADIAN UNIVERSITIES OR COLLEGES.

2. EFFECTIVE 1 SEP 04 IAW THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET OUT IN REF A,
ELIGIBLE P RES OFFICERS AND NCMS WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED THE BASIC
MILITARY QUAL (BMQ) COURSE REQ D BY THEIR ENVIRONMENT MAY CLAIM FIFTY
PERCENT OF EDUCATION EXPENSES TO A MAX OF $2K PER ACADEMIC YEAR AND A CAREER
MAX OF $8K (INCLUDING EXPENDITURES UNDER THE TRIAL) FOR POST SECONDARY
EDUCATION LEADING TO A DIPLOMA, DEGREE OR ADVANCED DEGREE AT A CANADIAN
COLLEGE, UNIVERSITY OR ACCREDITED EDUCATION INSTITUTION. REIMBURSEMENT IS
SUBJECT TO SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF ACADEMIC COURSES AND MAINTENANCE OF
EFFECTIVE STRENGTH STATUS IN THE P RES. 

3. TO ACCESS THE PROGRAM, MBRS SHALL SUBMIT AN INDIVIDUAL LEARNING PLAN
(ILP) THROUGH THEIR UNIT TO THE W/BPSO OUTLINING THEIR EDUCATION PRIORITIES,
OBJECTIVES AND ASSOCIATED COSTS. 

4. CLAIMS FOR THE ACADEMIC YR SEP 03 TO AUG 04 MAY BE PROCESSED IAW REF
B. 

5. INFORMATION ON THE PROGRAM IS PROVIDED ON THE CDA WEB SITE INTRANET
HTTP://CDA-ACD.MIL.CA/INDEX/ENGRAPH/HOME_E.ASP
<http://cda-acd.mil.ca/index/engraph/home_e.asp> . INTERNET
HTTP://WWW.CDA-ACD.FORCES.GC.CA/INDEX/ENGRAPH/HOME_E.ASP
<http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/index/engraph/home_e.asp> . QUESTIONS MAY
BE DIRECTED THROUGH UNITS TO W/BPSO. A TOLL FREE NUMBER HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED
AT 1-888-541-6889 AND WILL BE AVAILABLE TO ASSIST MEMBERS FOR EXTENDED HOURS
AS PER THE CDA WEB SITE.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Nov 2004)

Excuse the 'all caps, that's how CANFORGENS get published.


CANFORGEN 136/04 ADMHRMIL 067 021555Z NOV 04
CHANGES TO CF EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT PROGRAMS

UNCLASSIFIED

REFS: A. DAOD 5031-3
<http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5031/3_e.asp>  
B. CANFORGEN 042/01
<http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2001/042-01_e.asp>  
C. CBI 210.80 
D. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTR 17/04 EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT FOR THE REG 
FORCE 
E. CBI 210.802 SKILLS COMPLETION PROGRAM - REGULAR FORCE 
F. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTR 06/03 ADVANCED DEGREE PART-TIME PROGRAM FOR 
REG FORCE OFFICERS 
G. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTR 01/99 EDUCATION UPGRADING (PART-TIME) FOR 
SERVING REG FORCE OFFICERS 
H. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTR 18/04 ADVANCED DEGREE PART-TIME PROGRAM FOR 
REG FORCE OFFICERS 
I. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTR 19/04 INITIAL BACCALAUREATE DEGREE PART- TIME 
FOR REG FORCE OFFICERS 
J. CANFORGEN 114/04
<http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2004/114-04_e.asp>  
K. CBI 210.801 EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT - P RES 

1. FOLLOWING A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT (ER)
PROGRAMS THAT ENCOURAGE STUDY ON THE MEMBERS OWN TIME, A REVISED SUITE OF
PROGRAMS DESIGNED TO PROMOTE CONTINUOUS LEARNING HAS BEEN APPROVED. FULL
TIME SUBSIDIZED PROGRAMS ARE UNCHANGED. 

2. EFFECTIVE 1 NOV 04 EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT UNDER THE PERSONAL
ENHANCEMENT PROGRAM (PEP ER) AT REFS A AND B IS CANCELLED AND REPLACED BY
THE REG FORCE ER PROGRAM (REG F ER) AND THE SKILLS COMPLETION PROGRAM (SCP).

3. REG F ER AT REF D PROVIDES FOR THE REIMBURSEMENT OF EDUCATION
EXPENSES FOR OFFICERS AND NCMS WHO WISH TO UNDERTAKE PART-TIME STUDY TO
UPGRADE THEIR EDUCATION AND PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS IN THE INTEREST OF
THE CF. 

4. SCP AT REF E PROVIDES FOR THE REIMBURSEMENT OF EDUCATION EXPENSES
FOR ELIGIBLE REG FORCE MBRS TO UPGRADE THEIR MILITARY SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE
TO A CIVILIAN EQUIVALENT OR TO OBTAIN A CIVILIAN CERTIFICATION OR BOTH
LEADING DIRECTLY TO SECOND CAREER CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT. MBRS WITH TEN YEARS
OF CUMULATIVE REG F SVC MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR REIMBURSEMENT TO A MAXIMUM OF
FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR UP TO TWO YEARS AFTER RELEASE OR TRANSFER FROM THE
REG F. AN INDIVIDUAL LEARNING PLAN (ILP) SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO THE B/WPSO
FOR APPROVAL NLT 30 DAYS BEFORE RELEASE OR TRANSFER. MBRS WITH A UNIVERSITY
DEGREE, COLLEGE DIPLOMA, CURRENT CIVILIAN PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATION OR
TRADE ACCREDITATION ARE NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR REIMBURSEMENT UNDER SCP. 

5. THE ADVANCED DEGREE PART-TIME AND EDUCATION UPGRADING PART-TIME
PROGRAMS FOR REG F OFFICERS AT REFS F AND G HAVE BEEN AMENDED TO SET THE
MAXIMUM ER LIMIT AT TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS. REFS H AND I PROVIDE
DETAILS. 

6. TO ACCESS ALL ER PROGRAMS, MEMBERS SHALL SUBMIT AN ILP AS DIRECTED
BY THE CANADIAN DEFENCE ACADEMY (CDA) OUTLINING THEIR EDUCATION PRIORITIES,
OBJECTIVES, PROPOSED COURSES AND ESTIMATED COSTS. ILP INFORMATION IS
PROVIDED ON THE CDA WEBSITE. 

7. SERVING REG AND RES MBRS WHO HAVE MADE IRREVOCABLE FINANCIAL
COMMITMENTS PRIOR TO 1 NOV 04 MAY SUBMIT A CLAIM TO THE DESIGNATED B/WPSO
FOR CONSIDERATION BY CDA UNDER THE TERMS OF THE ER PROGRAM IN EFFECT PRIOR
TO 1 NOV 04. IAW REF J, FOR COURSES STARTED ON OR AFTER 20 AUG 04, ER WILL
ONLY BE PROVIDED FOR COURSES AND PROGRAMS LEADING TO A UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE
DEGREE/DIPLOMA, SECONDARY SCHOOL COMPLETION OR EQUIVALENCY OR PROFESSIONAL
CERTIFICATE. PERSONAL INTEREST COURSES, LEISURE COURSES OR LEARNING
ACTIVITIES THAT ARE NOT IN THE INTEREST OF THE CF OR DO NOT DIRECTLY LEAD TO
SECOND CAREER EMPLOYMENT WILL NOT BE REIMBURSED. 

8. FORMER REG FORCE MEMBERS RELEASED PRIOR TO 1 NOV 04 MAY SUBMIT AN
ILP TO CDA FOR CONSIDERATION UNDER THE TERMS OF THE ER PROGRAM THAT WAS IN
EFFECT ON THEIR RELEASE DATE. 

9. FULL TIME P RES MEMBERS ARE TO REFER TO REF K FOR DETAILS ON THE NEW
P RES ER PROGRAM. 

10. CF ER PROGRAM DETAILS ARE AVAILABLE ON THE CDA WEBSITE INTRANET
HTTP://CDA-ACD.MIL.CA/INDEX/ENGRAPH/HOME_E.ASP
<http://cda-acd.mil.ca/index/engraph/home_e.asp>  OR INTERNET
HTTP://WWW.CDA-ACD.FORCES.GC.CA/INDEX/ENGRAPH/HOME_E.ASP
<http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/index/engraph/home_e.asp>  A TOLL FREE LINE
HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED AT 1-888-541- 6889 TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE TO MEMBERS
DURING EXTENDED HOURS SET OUT ON THE WEBSITES.


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## Northern Touch (3 Nov 2004)

Well that's some good news for us students!


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## pbi (4 Nov 2004)

Mike: you beat me to the punch! Great news! Cheers.


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## Matt_Fisher (4 Nov 2004)

That's great news!  I wish that program had been in place when I was in the reserves.


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## foerestedwarrior (5 Nov 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> Mike: you beat me to the punch! Great news! Cheers.



ditto, well some of the guys in my mess were pretty pleases that it was back.


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## JBP (6 Nov 2004)

I am SOOOOO glad that the program has been instituted!!! It just makes sense!

This is a huge benefit for someone like me who has been living on thier own since 18, working full time and DOESN'T QUALIFY for OSAP!!!

Question if someone could help.

The recruiter told me this program works only if it has relevance to your job in the reserves or future career with the Forces. Understandable obviously, but would a diploma from college in Law+Security or Police Foundations be reimbursed if I'm Infantry????

Joe
 ???


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## Northern Touch (6 Nov 2004)

Recruit Joe said:
			
		

> I am SOOOOO glad that the program has been instituted!!! It just makes sense!
> 
> This is a huge benefit for someone like me who has been living on thier own since 18, working full time and DOESN'T QUALIFY for OSAP!!!
> 
> ...



I know of more then one person in my unit being reimbursed for Police foundations.  So it looks like your in luck.


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## JBP (7 Nov 2004)

Thank you VERY much! It eases my stress level just to hear that! Not like it's an expensive course to take as far as college courses go, but when your looking at the prospect of forking it all out yourself it's kinda nasty. Great!

Happy camper here!  :warstory:


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## bossi (9 Nov 2004)

Some particular praise and thanks are due to the Army Staff who fought for this when somebody else at NDHQ tried to cancel this plan.

A good example of "know your troops and promote their welfare"
(something that's called 'leadership')

Thanks, MGen Caron (and all the other staff who helped fight this battle).


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## pbi (11 Nov 2004)

My understanding of this was it was a fight between the A/CLS MGen Caron and various bean-counter wienies in VCDS shops. Chalk one up for the Army! Now-lets expand this program to community colleges so we can start revitalizing our CSS units in the Res with civ equivalencies. Cheers.


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## zerhash (11 Nov 2004)

hrmm would this encompass fire protection at seneca college if i was in a reserve engineer unit?


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## pbi (11 Nov 2004)

zerhash said:
			
		

> hrmm would this encompass fire protection at seneca college if i was in a reserve engineer unit?



During the Reserve Roles Missions and Tasks Townhall series in 38 CBG, one of our COs who was also a volunteer firefighter brought up a similar idea: he suggested that some of the VFF training such as Incident Command, High Angle Rescue (rappelling and climbing), etc had value to the military in various ways, and thus Res soldiers taking Firefighter Courses at community colleges should be eligible for reimbursement. I see some merit in this: in general I think we will benefit from a broader interpretation of what is useful rather than a narrow one. (Some wisdom will have to be applied, of course...) Cheers.


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## Spr.Earl (11 Nov 2004)

Shit I wish I was younger !!
The Marine Collage here in Van. is no longer teaching Merchant Marine Engineer Course's for 2nd Engineer or Chief Engineer,for me to up grade to 2nd Engineer I have to go down east to Halifax or the Rock and I doubt at my age the Force's will give me a break.
But if the Collage was still teaching I'd be game!!

You young Ladies and Gent.'s take advantage,you are getting somthing I never got when I joined in 76,all's I got was 56 Pattern webbing  ;D

Go for it!!


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## zerhash (11 Nov 2004)

who was trying to get this removed anyways?


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## The_Falcon (14 Nov 2004)

pbi this program applies to community colleges as well, The CANFORGEN clearly states university and college programs (also read this it explains in more detail than the CANFORGEN http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/policies/CBI/210-801_e.asp).  Use the second link that was provided and it tells you what to do.  Specifically you have to submit an online ILP (individual learning plan  http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/ILP/ilp_form/ilp.asp)  if you go there, there is a spot about half-way through were you have to justify/explain "how your proposed ILP will benefit the CF and/or lead directly to second career employment. Your statement may include additional information supporting your ILP, such as why you chose a particular educational program or institution. You must attach the statement on a separate sheet." (there words not mine).

So there you have it, your program does not have to directly relate to your MOC.


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## Meridian (20 Dec 2004)

For officers, pretty easy, given that a degree is a requirement by the forces, so it clearly benefits them.   BUt I'm sure they just want to see that you've thought about it.


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## The_Stu (22 Dec 2004)

Im thinking about joining the reserves, and read through the FAQ, I just have a few questions, and please yell at me if this is anwsered somewhere else or im in the wrong forum.

1. Will I be reimbursed for my University expenses (Im currently second year at UVic on Vancouver Island and thinking about majoring in political science) ive heard your degree has to correspond in some way to the direction you take in the forces? (Im thinking about going combat engineer, or maybe intelligence or infantry.)

2. What is the overall commitment that you make to the forces? How many years, how much time per year, etc. Also am I obligated to go somewhere and fight or what have you or is that up to me?

3. If I do sign up, I go somewhere to go to Basic in the summer right? Where would I be going? (Im in western canada, Vancouver island 8 months of the year, other 4 Vancouver area)

4. I was considering all this last year and didnt get my ass in gear to go talk to a recruiter and by the time I did he said there was no chance I would make it in for the summer, so when should I be getting the ball in motion so I dont have to wait another year?


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## Pte. Bloggins (22 Dec 2004)

Yes some of these have already been answered but since I have nothing better to do with my time I'll answer them anyway.  

1. Yes, after finishing basic, you can apply for education reimbursement. I believe you apply at the end of the school year for the previous yr because you need a transcript for it. WRT getting compensation for years completed before joining, I'm not sure how that works but as long as you don't exceed the $8000 limit it might be possible (but don't quote me on it.) Your degree doesn't have to correspond with your trade, I'm in sigs and I'm taking arts courses in university and getting $$ for it.

2. In the reserves there's technically no commitment, you can quit at any time. You're expected to parade 1 night a week and 1-2 weekends a month for exercises, but if for some valid reason you can't make it for a night or a weekend or two, generally people are pretty understanding about it. You also aren't obligated to go overseas or anything but many people volunteer to go as there are plenty of opportunities for reservists who wish to do so.

3. You can go away for basic in the summer, I have no clue where you would go, it depends on your trade as well as where you live. Many units also offer basic on weekends during the year, I believe it's usually every other weekend.

4. Try it, if you go to a recriuter right after the summer break and hand in an application you could get lucky. I handed mine in in April of last yr and was off to basic two months later. Or you could be out of luck and have to wait a while, but then you'd just be first in line for the next course availible.

Hope that helps, and good luck.


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## The_Stu (22 Dec 2004)

excellent, all the anwsers I needed, thanks.


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## mandj (14 Jan 2005)

Can anyone direct me to where I can get the regulations regarding education reimbursement? I am deploying on roto 3 in Feb and I want to take advantage of the time to do some correspondence courses.  ???


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Jan 2005)

Just type "reimbursement" in the search feature, I got too many hits to list here.


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## MJP (14 Jan 2005)

Go to your PSO office.  Now to recieve reimbursment you have to fill out an ILP (Individual learning plan) before they will authorize any funds.  I did some courses while deployed in Athena and I had to fill out a ILP before recieving reimburment.


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## Navalsnpr (16 Jan 2005)

Take a look at this:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/11_04/11_04_er_e.asp

This change really impacts quite a few members.


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## Michael OLeary (16 Jan 2005)

CANFORGEN - Changes to CF Education Reimbursement Programs

Reg Force:  www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/er/reg/ERReg_e.asp   

Reserve Force:  http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/er/pres/Pres_e.asp


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## Morgs (26 Jan 2005)

If this is in the wrong place, sorry.



> The [Education Reimbursement Program] for the Regular Force program support education upgrading for members of the Regular Force and provides eligible members, not covered under other programs, 100 percent reimbursement for courses towards a diploma or university degree in a subject area determined to be in the interests of the CF.



Taken from: http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/benefits/cont_ed_e.aspx  Link No Longer Works.

This is really the only relevant information on this page, so i was wondering if there is anyone on Army.ca who are currently completing, or has completed a diploma or degree as an NCM? and if so do you have any more information on the subject?
I also have some specific questions if they can be answered...
1) What kind of areas are "determined to be in the interests of the CF?"
2) Do you have to be in for a certain amount of time before you are eligible for the ER program?
3) How is the reimbursement handled? and;
4) Does the CF reccomend/choose institutions or is it up to the CF member to find their own position?

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## chikn suckr (24 Mar 2005)

This topic concerns the CANFORGEN published during the end of '04 dealing with the change of the military reimbursement program for education. It states that, (and I will be careful here to say that these facts have been pulled from a copied CANFORGEN on this site entitled 'CANFORGEN-changes to Education Reimbursement Programs' and my BPSO) as a reg force member releasing from the military with under ten years service there are NO financial benefits offered for education, a change from the approx. $1000 per year of service! If a member chooses to stay in the reserve and study part time they may be eligible for educatonal compensation and of course the reg force for all part time military relevant courses. As a releasing full-time member with over ten years service we may be entitled for up to $5000 max. towards education. A (small?) change from the $20 thousand once available. I would like to ask if there are any other members who do not feel that this particular policy change should warrant special attention on our behalf? If a member signs a contract with the military, are the CF not held themselves to certain obligations to meet, or is there a clause that has been missed by all of us that entitles them to alter our benefits? If this is so, I would recommend vigilance on behalf of all members to try and prevent any other beneficial programs that apply to us all (and especially the NCM's which this policy does most greatly affect), from also disappearing or changing. I have not experienced the protest that I would consider deserved in relation to this change of policy. I did sign two contracts and fulfilled my duty for my country in some places overseas on the front line, and in return they fundamentally adjust a program that was held in great regard as my reason for joining, but then so were medical and dental programs, not to mention a paycheck. Can any person on this forum explain the changes in any way, and help us to understand it?
I can understand also that there is an outflux of reg force NCM members that have served for their first or second BE and this may serve to prevent that flow, and help to retain members that are needed, but I wonder, has anyone in charge of program decision realized that this change may only strengthen their resolve to release? My opinion only.


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## Gunner (24 Mar 2005)

Buddy, I feel your pain.  The loss of the $1000 per year personal enhancement program (PEP) was a kick in the nuts for all of us. I say that as I embark upon my MBA program this fall with a cost of 20K.  The CF will only pay for approximately $8K and I'll foot the bill for the rest of it and once I complete it the CF will suck the knowledge/skills out of me for the rest of my career.

Having said that, my understanding is the PEP program was not approved by Treasury Board and the CF had no authority to provide it in the first place.  I think many would call it a very lucrative program for those retiring.  The new program focuses more on getting officers their degree (a job requirement) as well as assisting those who don't require a degree to get theirs.

See CDA website:

http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/er/er_e.asp

Cheers,


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## chikn suckr (28 Mar 2005)

I think we should ALL be feeling a bit of pain over this. However, if the PEP was not ever approved then it should not have been in use or offered to all members upon their release? Last year the politicians could not do enough for us, then as they are stating to the public that we are getting our tax money back for tours, they are at the same time pulling it out of our pockets in a veiled way. This certainly surpasses the pay raise scams in the past (and surely the future), when all cost of living on a base goes up according to our percentage of raise and sometimes exceeds it. As for the program seeming lucrative to 20 year members, I don't know what you think, but what does a 38-40 year old retiring member have to look forward to after a career in the combat arms? I am sure there are many members of this forum that may enlighten me, but, the pension is difficult to survive on for a single person, much less a retiree with possesions and a family to provide for. Of course, most plan for this, and consider those who dont right out of 'er. There were a lot of jokes floating around about the retired Sgt. Majors giving orders to their fellow commissionaire, and I'm sure their will be a few more in the years to come, thanks to the current system. I suppose if we can't beat 'em, join 'em, if we wish a higher education, go to university and acquire a commission, or is that what we are being told to do?? The attititude displayed by justifying the changes without knowledge of their reason will only serve to ensure that we will experience more change of a similar nature in my opinion. Call this whining all you wish folks, I still think this sets a sad and unjust precedent.


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## childs56 (30 Mar 2005)

wasnt the PEP a trial for four years and to be evaulated at the end of that time to see if it was feasible to continue with.  I maybe wrong but i remember something like that when it first came out.


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## George Wallace (3 Apr 2005)

That sure is a kick in the nuts.   I was so impressed when I did my SCAN seminar in Oct and heard all the benifits I would be entitled to and even planned to go back to 'School' after twenty-five years.   Now I am told by some I am not entitled to anything, and then in this thread up to $5000, a fraction of what was originally 'promised'.

I am told that Serving Members are also limited in what they apply for, in that it must be a course that will benifit the CF and is relevant to their careers; which doesn't leave much for Cbt Arms types.

Another kicker, now that they have announced this, screwing the Reg Force Members; they go and offer Education Reimbursements to the Reserves.   Why does a CF Member, after ten years service, get no benifit, while a Reservist with one year in can make a claim?   I must be missing something here.


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## MJP (3 Apr 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I am told that Serving Members are also limited in what they apply for, in that it must be a course that will benifit the CF and is relevant to their careers; which doesn't leave much for Cbt Arms types.



Not exactly true anything towards your first undergrad degree is 100% reimbursible as a Reg Force NCM.  My degree has very liitle to do with my job...


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## George Wallace (3 Apr 2005)

Perhaps not towards a Degree, but towards a Trade.  That is where the changes have been made.


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## Gunner (4 Apr 2005)

George, 

According to my ASU Edmonton Guide to Educatiion Reimbursement programs (giving an example of a svc mbr going to retire)



> After 20 years of service I am nearing retirement and was anticipating using my PEP Education Reimbursement (ER) to train for a new career.  Under the new guidelines contined within ER for the Reg Force and within the Skills Completion Program (SCP) is my plan still feasible:
> 
> Answer - Under the ER Reg Force guidelines, the proposed studies must be of interest to the CF, and the program must be accessed while serving in the Reg Force.  Under the SCP, ER will be available for certification and/or coursework necessary to make you employable in the civilian labour market, in an occupation directly related to your current or former military occupation.  If this is not possible, you may be eligible for retraining in a new occupation.  The SCP may be accessed while serving, and for two years following release.





> Another kicker, now that they have announced this, screwing the Reg Force Members; they go and offer Education Reimbursements to the Reserves.  Why does a CF Member, after ten years service, get no benifit, while a Reservist with one year in can make a claim?  I must be missing something here.



Geez George, why don't you go into the Reserves to take advantage of a program for serving CF members as well as collect your pension?


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## Gunner (4 Apr 2005)

And according to the CDA website:



> I am a former Reg Force member serving with the P Res. I have an ILP registered under SCP. Should I submit another ILP if I wish to benefit from ER-P Res? Is my $8,000 limit affected by my SCP?
> 
> You may benefit from SCP and ER-P Res at the same time. Simply submit an amendment to your ILP through your P Res unit. The SCP and ER-P Res dollar limits do not affect each other.



Pretty sweet deal!


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## chikn suckr (4 Apr 2005)

Alright, back on topic. Aside from all you members of the reserve that would wish us to join them in da Mo-litia, The issue I am talking about is the Reg. Force and retiring from it. We should not have to retire after our contract is finished and then sign up for the reserve to get the reimbursement due to us. Another great use of the system, as mentioned by the post above about the 4 year trial, once the policy has been changed, it gets erased from all web resources! This serves to effectively erase our souce of reference to compare the policies, new and old. I hope we have a good memory, as Im sure there is not going to be a lot of printed documentation laying around that can be referred to. We can now all use the he said, she said, and I heard... system of barracks box lawyerisms.


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## Canadian Sig (4 Apr 2005)

This whole thing comes down to conditions of our contracts. In effect we are requiered to stick to the contract we sign but the Government can change it to their benefit at any time. I was hired under the understanding that if I chose to leave after my first BE ( I chose not to leave ) I would have some education benefits. If that isnt true anymore than ins'nt that breach of contract? What about the guys who were hired on the understanding that if they did 20 years they would be eligable for a full pension but now they have been told they have to do 25 years? One of my friends who did move on after his first BE has brought this to his Member of Parliment and also ( i believe) to the Ombudsman but with no result yet.


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## Gunner (4 Apr 2005)

*Chikn suckr*



> Aside from all you members of the reserve that would wish us to join them in da Mo-litia, The issue I am talking about is the Reg. Force and retiring from it. We should not have to retire after our contract is finished and then sign up for the reserve to get the reimbursement due to us.



You don't have to join the Reserves to get reimbursement.  As stated above, you are entitled to $8K under the Skills Completion Program when you retire.  If you don't want to join "da Mo-litia" you can pay your own way.  I mentioned it as an option to get up to $16K in funding for educational reimbursement.



> Another great use of the system, as mentioned by the post above about the 4 year trial, once the policy has been changed, it gets erased from all web resources! This serves to effectively erase our souce of reference to compare the policies, new and old. I hope we have a good memory, as Im sure there is not going to be a lot of printed documentation laying around that can be referred to. We can now all use the he said, she said, and I heard... system of barracks box lawyerisms.



And if you didn't take advantage of the program over the last 5 years, why are you upset now?  Why didn't you take advantage of it like others did?

*Canadian Sig*



> This whole thing comes down to conditions of our contracts. In effect we are requiered to stick to the contract we sign but the Government can change it to their benefit at any time. I was hired under the understanding that if I chose to leave after my first BE ( I chose not to leave ) I would have some education benefits. If that isnt true anymore than ins'nt that breach of contract?



If you can show me anywhere where you signed a contract stating that you must recieve the benefits of the PEP program I will publicly whip myself until you grant me approval to stop!



> What about the guys who were hired on the understanding that if they did 20 years they would be eligable for a full pension but now they have been told they have to do 25 years? One of my friends who did move on after his first BE has brought this to his Member of Parliment and also ( i believe) to the Ombudsman but with no result yet.



Well this is a separate issue from educational reimbursement.  According to my pension chart, a member who completes his 20 year IE would still be entitled to an unreduced annuity.


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## chikn suckr (4 Apr 2005)

Gunner,
Who says that I have not taken part in the program over the duration of my contract? I don't believe I said that. However, I have not come close to earning a degree, as I was actually working during my time. I do believe your facts are a bit scewed. No, I am not entitled to any reimbursement under the new program, as I have less than ten years in, and after 10 years, if the CANFORGEN is to be believed, I may receive a max. of 5000. Unfortunately for some of us, we do not feel the need to enroll for life within the CF. This does not change the fact that our contracts seem to be altered to the benefit of the CF while we serve. I do not believe that it is stated anywhere in our contract that we specifically will receive PEP benefits, or medical benefits, or dental, etc, etc....Should this mean any of the these may also get reduced or altered to reduce our benefit from them? If so we should all be quite aware, and as it is, we are not. You have my permission to flog yourself anyway, if you haven't already done so.


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## Gunner (4 Apr 2005)

> , if the CANFORGEN is to be believed, I may receive a max. of 5000.



What's not to believe?  Have you spoken to your base PSO about your situation and what your are entitled to?



> Unfortunately for some of us, we do not feel the need to enroll for life within the CF.



Why do you feel the need therefore, for the CF to pay for your enhancement if you are not going to be part of the CF?



> This does not change the fact that our contracts seem to be altered to the benefit of the CF while we serve. I do not believe that it is stated anywhere in our contract that we specifically will receive PEP benefits, or medical benefits, or dental, etc, etc....Should this mean any of the these may also get reduced or altered to reduce our benefit from them?



Good Christ man, PEP was an interium program just as many other programs have been over the years.  Your medical and dental benefits change all the time, usually for the better, are you going to complain that they didn't consult you on each change?  I can't believe the amount of complaining I am hearing.


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## chikn suckr (5 Apr 2005)

OK Gunner,
It seems as if you are really just here to wind me up. All your statements and accusations have been already discussed in my original post. How many times should I repeat myself trying to make you understand? You seem to want to make some other point here as your posts have become fairly redundant. It is clear that you will accept any change of policy with open arms and never argue, but you will argue with any dissent within the ranks, and label it 'complaining' if someone wishes to gather some usefull feedback. If your comments were useful, and they are not, I would welcome them. I apparently must state my post over and over so you can get the last word here. Feel free to keep it up, as I'm sure you will. Good luck with your education.


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## Gunner (5 Apr 2005)

chikn suckr,

You are free to disagree with me and you are free to not read or interpret what I post and the links I provide to the DND policy on educational reimbursment.  My main problem with you is your whining about how unfairly you are being treated and that it is some mysterious conspiracy to "screw over the troops".  I my opinion, that's not the case.  For whatever reason we forget the CF is an employer and its purpose is to maximize the return it receives from its employees to make it more efficient.  It is not a benefits trough that so many of expect it to be.

So you have two choices. Suck it up or send in your redress about a change in policy..

Cheers


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## chikn suckr (14 Apr 2005)

For the other members that may actually be concerned about this topic and not my pouty verbiage, here is some info I have gathered. I have indeed questioned PSO about the issue of this being a somewhat sketchy if not altogether illegal policy change, as it concerns what you can call a verbal contract, if you have discussed education reimbursement with recruiting prior to enrollment, and have used that to actually help convince you to sign on, as in my case. The advice given to all others who are affected, and myself, is that this may constitute a change of policy if made available to the Ombudsman, and/or (as he is in the middle of a change of office at the moment and may be a bit busy) our Members of Parliament. My advice and the PSO's to anyone concerned as I am with this problem, is take the time to write to either or both, as it will be your only chance at changing the current adjustments. If we can get a return on this from all members concerned we should get a reaction. I, for one, will start now.
Thank you, Gunner for stating your intelligent opinion over and over. Yep, I must be a whiner, thanks. You can stop now! Musta been da Mo-litia comment... Suck it up! Your attitude that nothing can be wrong with the system!! is a great asset towards the degradation of the Forces. IMAO

Cheers


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## KevinB (14 Apr 2005)

chikn suckr - suck it up I doubt any of us joined for the education benefits.
 So the policy changed  :crybaby: Thats life - Yeah it sucks -so wear a helmet.


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## Gunner (14 Apr 2005)

chikn suckr,

All rhetoric aside, I don't think the PSO has given you very good advice.  I suggest you start with a grievance and find the CF's take on why the change in reimbursement was done and argue how it has affected you.  The Ombudsman and Member of Parliament will just refer the matter back to you in order to take advantage of administrative system built into the CF.  

PS - You may want to fill out your profile if you want to be taken seriously as a poster.  I've done my time, have you?


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## chikn suckr (16 Apr 2005)

Yeah Gunner, thats what I said too. The good Major still insisted that it would be the best route. Have I put my time in? Whether or not I fill out my profile doesn't really concern me, if you wish to take me seriously doesn't either. I am only posting this to get some feedback and possibly give a heads up to the people that might be concerned with this topic, as most members that have attended a recent SCAN seminar were, and possibly help us all out, if possible.
KevinB, thats for repeating the sentiment, and for showing your level of intelligence, buds. Something tells me 'doubt' and 'know' are fairly interchangeable for you. Education was probably not in the cards for you either way. :-*


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## Gunner (16 Apr 2005)

> KevinB, thats for repeating the sentiment, and for showing your level of intelligence, buds. Something tells me 'doubt' and 'know' are fairly interchangeable for you. Education was probably not in the cards for you either way.



chikn suckr - PM inbound.


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## GO!!! (16 Apr 2005)

As far as I'm concerned, the educational benefits have changed for the better!

Under the previous program, only 80% of my tuition and books were refunded, now, with the completion and approval of my ILP, it's up to 100%! HA!

In addition to this, you can deduct 50% of tuition from income tax!

SO, the army pays for my school, gives me time off to write exams, a free laptop when I'm on the road, and I make more money come tax time. 

I can't think of another organisation that covers all of your school costs so you can get out and get another job - So sum up - there's not much to whine about.


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## chikn suckr (16 Apr 2005)

Good Grief! Anyone else out there that would like to keep calling me a whiner please feel free to write! I'm a WHINER :crybaby: Ok!
Now back to topic, sorry GO!! but stop, some of your info is actually wrong, and the laptop is no longer covered, sorry. Again this is dealing with the topic for reimbursement of members that are LEAVING the forces, so please read the actual thread before you say sum up. I agree though, it remains a good deal if your unit can give you time off to get an education and you are a recipient during employment with the forces. This is all upon approval of your ILP and really check into the accreditation of the school as you will be left holding the bill if it comes back that it aint recognised by the Military. Again, fair enough, you are right as it deals with your situation.
Oops I seem to have crossed the line drawn in front of KevinB, an apology is due to the forum from myself. Excuse me, getting tired of the focus on me and not the actual subject! I should have known what this would start with people that are used to giving orders that coincide with their own views. Not only am I a whiner but a stupid one! ;D  However, I will keep up with the outcome of it all and hopefully help some of you that may feel entitled to the reimbursement as it was stated at the beginning of their contract.  Another point, the ombudsman has its own website, and so does your MP, both with either a complaint form or an email address... so we can all whine to people other than in this forum. I, for one hope that they may not be as antagonistic as in here.


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## Chilly (16 Apr 2005)

chikn suckr

So the policy has changed and in your case it isn't for the better---but why do you feel as though, the military or even the government is responsible to give you $20,000.00 [/color] for education.  I'm sure there are other businesses that reimburse it's employees money for educational up grades, but how is your educational upgrade going to benefit the Forces.  I just don't see what you have to complain about - the policy CHANGED and that's it.  If you want the Gov't/ Forces to pay for an education for you then stick around and make a career in the Forces. Then you can take advantage of the different programs that are out there in the Forces.  If not then move on and get your education the most do on their own. 

"Education was probably not in the cards for you either way."

If education was in the cards for you then you would not need the Gov't/Forces to pay for it, you would have received scholarships and burseries.


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## George Wallace (16 Apr 2005)

OK Guys

I have to side with chikn suckr here.  I just finished 28 years.  No options of staying in after completing my CE, even when requested by my Regt so that I could go on this ROTO to Afghanistan.  Career Shop said no.  My last SCAN Seminar in Oct laid out the rules for Education Reimbursement and that totaled over $20 K in my case if claimed within the 2 years from my Release.  I finished my Leave at the end of March and find out that I am now entitle to $ 0, yet am told that a Reservist can now collect $ 5 K.  Kind of a Piss Off, after all those years of Service (Think now of the US Mil Education Benifits Plans) to find that the rug has been pulled out from under me and some kid can join the Reserves tomorrow and apply for $ 5 K almost immediately.  Tell me where the Justice is there.

I also understand that the Rules have also been drastically changed for those still Serving, as to what type of Courses will be credited.  Most of the info has been posted in this discussion already.

And I am sorry Chilly, but  in many cases staying around in the Military is not an option for those of us who have already done our "Long" time already.  You can't remain a kid that long.  After 20 odd years you are no longer 18 anymore, if you catch my drift.

These "Changes" are a very sore point to many who have had the rug pulled out from under them in the last four months.  Bitching and Whining are to be expected.  Wait your turn, youngster, your day will come and you too will whine and complain when some benefit or entitlement is withdrawn from you at the last minute.  

Joining the Reserves until CRA is one option open to Retired CF Members who wish to get at least some compensation.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Apr 2005)

George,
What about redressing the fact that when a change like that is made, it should be "grandfathered" or "tapered" over 5 years, etc. so that it isn't discriminatory[which by the way you would have a case with the human rights board] to someone in your situation.
Bruce


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## 2 Cdo (16 Apr 2005)

Funny how somebody asks a question for info about a subject and the comments begin. Telling a person to suck it up or say he is whining seems to be the norm lately on this forum. If a question is asked and you don't have any pertinent info then try to refrain from the smart-ass comments, it just reveals what an ass you are. And it should be noted that it should apply to all pers on this site, posters and moderators alike!


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## KevinB (16 Apr 2005)

Chikn,

 Look it got screwed just as you - I recently took a $2900 course and got told to go piss up a rope. Worse it was specifically relevant to the job I do [and have done overseas].  I got out of the regs for four years to go to University on my OWN dime.  When I got back in I figured I'd try to use the system to benifit myself and the CF and do a bunch of training.  Some training (2002-2003) I got funded but recently the reversal has forced me to be out of pocket for such things.


My understandig of the policy, is that it was not a legally approved system anyway, and the CF was FORCED to change it by the treasury board.  I really don't understand why the Treasury Board administrates things like this but what I do know if thatit was beyond the scope of the CF - so being angry at the system is not the answer.  The only way I see it changing if is someone can PROVE to the TB that the Army is different and thus needs its own special system to deliniate course and funding.

 My point and a similar vien to my comments on equipment etc. is you have to work within the system (I know a LOT of people are laughing right now) and externally to produce change.  I dont know if you can intiate a UCR on the Education Benifit/System but if you feel so agreived try it.

 I just decided that I will fund my own stuff, and perhaps it make me even more of a white knight crusader  


Cheers


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## GO!!! (17 Apr 2005)

sukr - I'm pretty sure that the laptop is covered, because I'm typing on it right now. An e - mail confirmed this with the LCC. And the rest of my info is correct, I had it faxed over just to make sure. 

Not sure about your individual circumstances, but all of my education reimbursements over the last few years was based on the premise that it was a trial program that had run for a really long time. 

I never saw it written anywhere, in all my searching of the educational benefits that one was entitled to 1K a year, yet so many people seem to talk about it. I also have never met any retired pers that used that plan. Just my 2 cents.

So, I would file a grievance if I were you, or take it up with the Ombudsman. At least there you will get a straight answer.


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## chikn suckr (19 Apr 2005)

GO!!!
[Under the previous program, only 80% of my tuition and books were refunded, now, with the completion and approval of my ILP, it's up to 100%! HA!

In addition to this, you can deduct 50% of tuition from income tax!

SO, the army pays for my school, gives me time off to write exams, a free laptop when I'm on the road, and I make more money come tax time.] 

So I get from this that you can deduct 50% of tuition that you dont even pay for. Silly me I thought this would be wrong but if it is true, well I cant argue that it isnt the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just going by what the PSO has stated the laptop wasn't covered, maybe the LCC covered it? I will try to check that out. I think if I could find my way into your shoes I would never leave the Forces.

Chilly
If I found my way to where I am today with scholarships and/or bursaries, I would kick my own a**! But rest assured, even if I do have to rely on my own funding, I will have an education in my cards, and thanks for your concern.

George
I dont know if you are on retirement leave at this time or not, but if you are so inclined to take advantage of the Ombudsman, please do so. There will be a small flood of paperwork heading his way concerning this subject from my regiment and the more the merrier. As for Bruce ,I think he may be on the right track, though I think is it has to do with Contract and Breach of Contract? 

 Question: Has anyone else heard of two Warrants from Gagetown who stopped coming to work over this subject? Their claim being that if the Military could change their contract, so could they. 

 I myself am only waiting to hear a reply from my submission last week, I will keep this updated as to the outcome. If there is no answer soon, I will be contacting my MP. The way I see it around here there are yes-men and those that might rock the boat. If I choose to rock the boat once in a while its only to find out where the leaks are coming from to keep it from sinking, while being in a boat with a lot of (sea)yes-men can really suck, if more of us used some guts to open our mouths once in while concerning some problems it may make a difference. I do not mean we should all start to whine about everything! The Military screws us all, suck it up, carry on, stop whining, and grab a helmet should not always apply to absolutely everything. If we can use our heads to understand something when it cant be fathomed or question things that might seem unlawful and make use of the processes available, we can actually help ourselves quite a bit, but it takes more than just a couple of us.

 Thank you to those of you who support an open forum, I was beginning to wonder what could possibly be worse, my whining or all the whining concerning my whining. :'(But please dont think that I am whining about your whining about my whining!
Rodger so far? over.


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## Gunner (19 Apr 2005)

> Question: Has anyone else heard of two Warrants from Gagetown who stopped coming to work over this subject? Their claim being that if the Military could change their contract, so could they.



I suspect this can be considered an "military myth".  Let me be absolutely clear that no ones terms of service has been or can be changed without their permission.  Everyone should have been briefed on the different terms of service by their units.  There are changes that effect the younger members who have not signed IE, with the biggest being you will have to work until you have 25 years of service, vice only 20.  If you have questions on the changes in terms of service, I suggest you contact your unit OR, garrison OR or your chain of command.  The changes provide considerable benefit and flexibility for every member.   

Education reimbursement is not part of your contract when you sign with the military.  As I mentioned, the loss of the PEP reimbursement (up to 1,000 per year of service) hurt those of us with long service but the new plans (see link above) provide a comprehensive plan for the CF.  If you have questions about education reimbursement and how you fit into the new plan, I encourage you to consult with your base PSO.

Cheers,


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## LCIS227 (5 May 2005)

I'm probably going to get bombarded with arty with this but here it goes , chickn skr has made some valid comments, and others who say that he is just whining also have a point, but the point of all this talk is this:

Gunner compared the CF as an employer and that it can change its policies as it see fit to maximize return ... well if you see the CF as an employer and that it has roughly 60 000 employees, could you imagine a company like IBM or BELL or what ever else change they're policy in these manners (changing from 20 to 25 yrs, change in educational plans, etc ...) and expect they're employees to just stand idly and do nothing? heck no, they would go to the bargaining table and come to an agreement and if the company is so hard headed the employees would just strike until they receive a fair deal.

As a CF member, I agreed to certain restrictions in rights, IE the right to be part of a union and thus the right to strike, but we have other means to let the higher up know that we disagree with certain changes. Redress in particular ... 

So, I think that chkn skr should fight in what he believes to be fair and hopefully he'll get what he wants. But on the other hand, all the other guys that are just putting sticks in his wheels and bashing him for his views, tell me this, what have YOU to lose if he gets what he think is fair? Unless you consider a gain in benefits as a loss ...


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## chikn suckr (7 May 2005)

Hi All,
I'm back! I received a call from our neighborhood friendly Ombudsman's office yesterday and I hate to say it, but 'Gunner' was right and the PSO wrong. I am now in the process of sending up a memo on a changed policy through the C of C. Unfortunately the end to this issue will now be drawn out much longer. Again, I will keep this updated.
 Wow no recent complaints about me. Gunner maybe you should start your own propaganda thread here, you seem to like it, but go start your own and stop posting your already stated opinions over and over. We all know how you feel. Maybe you are posting to try and keep up appearances of order within the ranks for the sake of the public access to this forum, or maybe you are a past playground bully incarnate, using a militia arty officer with the title 'moderator' for the purpose of 'forum bullying'. You may have your profile here filled out but you will not be receiving my respect. Out to you.
 LSIS227, Cheers! Well put. I might be retiring from the infantry, but it's not because I have no 'fight' left in me.


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## chikn suckr (9 May 2005)

Latest update:
Oops, no, 'Gunner' was not right. Further research has uncovered the fact that the Ombudsmans office must open a file on a subject of complaint after a given number of grievances filed with their office. SO, all you who may be as upset with the program as I am, write them!https://www3.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/ocf_e.php This way we may be able to solve the problem sooner rather than later. FYI- I am not informed as to the number of complaints they must receive before they open an 'investigation'. With the number of members getting out within the next few years, I am positive there will be more complaints filed. These changes are not very well known as of yet, so I am quite confident the number will be reached, its only a matter of time.


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## George Wallace (14 May 2005)

Something was just passed this week in Parliament in regard to Veterans and their benefits after Service.  I was wondering if anyone has seen any documentation as to what benefits they have come up with.  There was mention on the news of "upgrading of education" after Release for bettering of job search, or something to that effect.  With the Government in the state it is now, things are getting done, but the info is convoluted by the time you hear it.


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## Gunner (14 May 2005)

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=Forces/newdeal

George you have probably seen this link the the VA site.  Check out the backgrounder and the proposal .pdf.  We may have to wait for the actual details during its implementation.

Cheers,


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## kas (21 Jan 2006)

I've been told several conflicting things by various recruiting individuals about what qualifies for tuition reimbursement in the reserves and what does not.  I couldn't find any relevant up-to-date information in other posts, so I was hoping somebody here might have access to some form of "offical word" to clear up the matter once and for all.

I already have one undergrad degree which I funded on my own. I am now attending university working towards a second undergrad degree and will likely continue on to do a masters afterwards. When I join the reserves, hopefully in the very near future, will I qualify for the $2000 / year tuition reimbursement for either the afterdegree or masters?

Thank you,

Kas.


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## kincanucks (21 Jan 2006)

First degree only so no.


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## kas (21 Jan 2006)

Well darn, that sucks.

Thank you for the response, kincanucks.


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## 54/102 CEF (21 Jan 2006)

Try the RMC War Studies MA - I`m getting 50% paid


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## Sgt_McWatt (23 Jan 2006)

I am in the reserves, and next year will be going to College. I am doing a 2 year Police Foundations Diploma. What do I do/who do I talk to about the reimbursement?


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## kincanucks (23 Jan 2006)

Pte(R). McWatt said:
			
		

> I am in the reserves, and next year will be going to College. I am doing a 2 year Police Foundations Diploma. What do I do/who do I talk to about the reimbursement?




Your unit orderly room.


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## ark (31 Jan 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> First degree only so no.



May I know what is your source ? My OR told me I can claim my grad school tuitions even If I got my undergrad reimbursed (still waiting for 3rd year money).

This is the official site for ILP:
http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/home_e.asp
but I can't find any word in that regard.


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## kincanucks (31 Jan 2006)

ark said:
			
		

> May I know what is your source ? My OR told me I can claim my grad school tuitions even If I got my undergrad reimbursed (still waiting for 3rd year money).
> 
> This is the official site for ILP:
> http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/home_e.asp
> but I can't find any word in that regard.



Hmmmm, to me this would mean one or the other not both:

_an undergraduate or advanced degree or diploma at a Canadian university accredited by a provincial ministry or department or an organization authorized by a province to provide the accreditation of universities; _ 

and repeated in the CANFORGEN:

MAY CLAIM FIFTY PERCENT OF EDUCATION EXPENSES TO A MAX OF $2K PER ACADEMIC YEAR AND A CAREER MAX OF $8K (INCLUDING EXPENDITURES UNDER THE TRIAL) FOR POST SECONDARY EDUCATION LEADING TO _A DIPLOMA, DEGREE OR ADVANCED DEGREE _ AT A CANADIAN COLLEGE, UNIVERSITY OR ACCREDITED EDUCATION INSTITUTION. REIMBURSEMENT IS SUBJECT TO SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF ACADEMIC COURSES AND MAINTENANCE OF EFFECTIVE STRENGTH STATUS IN THE P RES.


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## b51pp (17 Jan 2007)

I am considering signing up for the reserves, I have two questions first that my recruiter could'nt answer.

1. Tuition reimbursement, it is given every september I heard. My question is - if I sign up now, go on thurdays and 1 saturday a month to the base and do whatever the platoon of untrained soldiers does, go to basic in the summertime, become an infantryman, and in September bring them my transcript for THIS year, will I be reimbursed for this semester of school (Jan-April)? Or better yet, this year?

now, if so, then there is no need for question 2

2. If I won't be getting reimbursed for this semester, I would plan on joining in time for basic this summer, but I would be working a regular part time job until then. When should I apply so that I can start in April at the end of the semester?

Thanks


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## George Wallace (17 Jan 2007)

Answers:

2.  Sign up as soon as possible.  There are many things that you need to do before you are accepted.  The longer you wait, the less of a chance of you being accepted for the summer.

1.  You have to apply in advance for the 'Reimbursement of Funds' for your education.  You should know that you will only get a maximum of $2,000 for the year and you must successfully pass the courses.  You can not apply for previous years.  You will get those forms from your Unit Orderly Room in September.

Here are some Topics that will help you find all that has been said on these subjects:



*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions


Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


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## Amsdell (23 Jan 2007)

I'm not sure what this form is called, it's for post-secondary study reimbursement for the reserves.  The program allows reservists to receive up to $2,000 per year of study.  Any help would be appreciated.


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## navymich (23 Jan 2007)

Talk to the clerks in your unit's OR/Ship's Office.  You have to submit it through them anyway.


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## aesop081 (23 Jan 2007)

No....don't ask the OR, that would make too much sense 

Run to the internet instead and hope someone knows the answer

 : new army


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## navymich (23 Jan 2007)

For future reference for anyone looking for this info (more info on entitlement etc available on link). Ref:  CBI 210.801, Education Reimbursement – Primary Reserve



> (7) (Claim for reimbursement) To obtain the reimbursement of education expenses, a CF 52 (General Allowance Claim) is to be submitted by the member in accordance with instructions issued by the Canadian Defence Academy, on or after the first day of the academic year following the academic year in which any required courses are successful completed, along with applicable receipts of education expenses and proof of successful completion of all courses for which reimbursement is requested for that academic year.


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## Amsdell (25 Jan 2007)

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> No....don't ask the OR, that would make too much sense
> 
> Run to the internet instead and hope someone knows the answer
> 
> : new army



Nah, the OR was the first place I tried.  After getting nowhere I tried the logical approach and asked here.


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## navymich (25 Jan 2007)

Amsdel said:
			
		

> Nah, the OR was the first place I tried.  After getting nowhere I tried the logical approach and asked here.



Then maybe the reply to you should have been, no, don't utilize your CoC to solve problems or concerns, run to the internet instead.  :


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## GO!!! (25 Jan 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> Then maybe the reply to you should have been, no, don't utilize your CoC to solve problems or concerns, run to the internet instead.  :



OR you could have just told him to contact his nearest BPSO's office.

This number will be available at even the most poorly run/undermanned orderly room, and barring that (if you live in a city with no major base) the recruiting center which recruited you.

All of the BPSO's offices have toll free numbers, e-mail and civilian phone numbers, and are staffed with civilians who know the ER plan inside and out. They can answer all of your questions and provide you with the forms you need (downloadable/fax/mail) so that you can actually get some money back.

Rely on your CoC for things involving your unit and it's activities, the onus is on *you* for Education and any subsequent reimbursement, especially as an NCM, where formal education is not required for your job - it is an extra curricular activity.

After I got my Learning Plan approved, I don't submit anything to my unit - they're busy, and my taking it directly to the Education clerk ensures that it is processed in a timely and error free manner.


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## chrisf (14 Oct 2008)

(Sorry if this is the wrong forum, couldn't really decide which was appropriate)

Does anyone know if receipts for used text books can be reimbursed under the education reimbursement program?

I've kept a copy of the receipts, a copy of the book list, which demonstrates that the books were required as part of the course, and further demonstrates that the price of used books was well below the price of the new books...


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## MJP (14 Oct 2008)

Yes I have claimed for used textbooks for a few of the courses I have taken.  They don't care either way which you use.


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## dwalter (16 Oct 2008)

As long as you have the receipts and the book list, they are happy. You basically saved the government some money by going with used. Personally I have a hard time reading past all the crap people highlight in used books... This thread could probably move to the ROTP thread, since that covers most things about subsidized education, even if you aren't in ROTP its self.


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## p2shanmu (19 Nov 2009)

Hi,
Does anyone know what program's are approved for Education Reimbursement? 

I just graduated from B.Eng  Aerospace program, and now I have applied for AERE. If I get accepted for AERE will I get Reimbursed partially?


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## George Wallace (19 Nov 2009)

engineer1 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Does anyone know what program's are approved for Education Reimbursement?
> 
> I just graduated from B.Eng  Aerospace program, and now I have applied for AERE. If I get accepted for AERE will I get Reimbursed partially?



If I understand you correctly, you are applying as a DEO.  There is no Education Reimbursement for DEO Entry Plan candidates.


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## Rheostatic (19 Nov 2009)

engineer1 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Does anyone know what program's are approved for Education Reimbursement?
> 
> I just graduated from B.Eng  Aerospace program, and now I have applied for AERE. If I get accepted for AERE will I get Reimbursed partially?


This is the link you need: http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/er-re/index-eng.asp

B.Eng Is definitely OK for education reimbursement, however this program is only for serving CF members. There was a signing bonus for engineers, maybe that's what you're thinking of?


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## Occam (19 Nov 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If I understand you correctly, you are applying as a DEO.  There is no Education Reimbursement for DEO Entry Plan candidates.



Not in the sense of a lump sum payout, anyways.

But if he applied DEO, engineer1 would soon realize that he'd make Captain one hell of a lot sooner than someone coming in via ROTP - and I would imagine that chunk of change would go a long way to paying down student loans.



			
				Rheostatic said:
			
		

> This is the link you need: http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/er-re/index-eng.asp
> 
> B.Eng Is definitely OK for education reimbursement, however this program is only for serving CF members. There was a signing bonus for engineers, maybe that's what you're thinking of?



I'm pretty sure the recruiting incentive for Engineers is over and done with....but I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.


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## gcclarke (19 Nov 2009)

Occam said:
			
		

> Not in the sense of a lump sum payout, anyways.
> 
> But if he applied DEO, engineer1 would soon realize that he'd make Captain one hell of a lot sooner than someone coming in via ROTP - and I would imagine that chunk of change would go a long way to paying down student loans.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the recruiting incentive for Engineers is over and done with....but I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.



Frankly, this depends upon how you define "sooner". Yes, I made Lt(N) sooner than some of the people I was in training with who had joined under the ROTP rather than DEO as I did. By about 9-10 months. But, those same people had decide to join the Canadian Armed Forces at the age of 17-18, whereas I decided to do so after I had already obtained my degree. 

Needless to say, while I may have less time as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces as them, they have less time since they graduated. By sheer age, those who made the decision to join under the ROTP when they were fresh out of high school will certainly make Captain (or Lt(N)) at a younger age than their compatriots who decide to join the Canadian Armed Forces after they have obtained their requisite degree.


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## Rheostatic (19 Nov 2009)

> I'm pretty sure the recruiting incentive for Engineers is over and done with....but I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.


I had heard the same thing, hence "was" not "is". I am curious to know if any of the recruiters here can tell us if they'll ever bring back the incentive.


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## George Wallace (19 Nov 2009)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> I had heard the same thing, hence "was" not "is". I am curious to know if any of the recruiters here can tell us if they'll ever bring back the incentive.



Recruiting Incentives/Signing Bonus' are implemented to attract people to Trades/occupations that are short personnel/"stressed".  Once those occupations are no longer stressed, those incentives/bonus' are no longer required and they "disappear".


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## gcclarke (19 Nov 2009)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> I had heard the same thing, hence "was" not "is". I am curious to know if any of the recruiters here can tell us if they'll ever bring back the incentive.



I'll expand upon what George said a bit. When changes are made to re-implement signing bonuses for those with a BSc Eng, recruiters will be informed. I'm sure that their input will be considered when making this decision, but at the end of the day, the decision may be made including the input of the commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group, but is it very unlikely that anyone actively working as a recruiter "on the ground" will be at that meeting. Thus, anyone you're asking to tell you if they will ever bring back the incentive will likely be unable to give you any actual advice on this matter. And honestly, even if you do ask the Commander of the CFRG, I do not think that he will be able to tell you what will happen in future years regarding a recruiting bonus for engineers. He would still need to guess what the result might be until the decision has been made.

tl;dr We only know current policy, we can't guess future policy.


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## p2shanmu (19 Nov 2009)

I guess the right word I was looking for is "signing bonus". However, all of you gave me information I was looking and thanks.


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## Occam (20 Nov 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Recruiting Incentives/Signing Bonus' are implemented to attract people to Trades/occupations that are short personnel/"stressed".  Once those occupations are no longer stressed, those incentives/bonus' are no longer required and they "disappear".



I think the word you're looking for is "distressed", George.  Root word is distress.

All of us are stressed, but only some trades are distressed.   ;D


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## brihard (1 Feb 2011)

I've searched, and have found nothing more recent than 2004 on this when the program was just being approved after the trial.

According to CBI 210.801, I'm entitled to 50% of my 'education expenses' up to $2k per year, $8k career total, while studying on a valid ILP in an approved program.

Because of my marks in high school, I get $3k a year from my school as a scholarship, and I furthermore was awarded a $1k scholarship this year. When I renewed my ILP after coming back from tour, the clerk over at PDev casually dropped into the conversation that my eligible expenses would be reduced dollar for dollar by the value of the scholarship; his exact words were "we're not going to pay you for being smart". 

CDA-DLI's website seems to back this up: http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/er-re/faq/faqpri-eng.asp#9. 



			
				DLI said:
			
		

> If the scholarship or bursary can be used for expenses not eligible under CBI 210.801, then it does not affect your claim. If you use your scholarship or bursary for tuition and other expenses eligible in CBI 210.801, you may only claim eligible expenses, which were not covered by your scholarship or bursary.



Yet I can find nothing in CBI 210.801 or in other documentation that states that an externally awarded scholarship or bursary is deemed to reduce my eligible educational expenses. The statement on DLI's website does not link to supporting policy; indeed the only applicable references are CBI 210.801, and DAOD 5031-3, which has since been cancelled by CANFORGEN. If this comes up with the knowledge I currently have I do intend to challenge it, but if anyone here has first hand knowledge of specific policies or directives I may have missed that can either save me some embarrassment or help me to substantiate a challenge I would appreciate it.


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## muffin (1 Feb 2011)

They are down the hall ... I will inquire


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## Rheostatic (1 Feb 2011)

I'm eager to hear the answer to this one. In the meantime, maybe start digging into your receipts?



> ELIGIBLE EXPENSES
> Administration fees
> Admission fees
> Campus fees/Society fees
> ...


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## dapaterson (1 Feb 2011)

The CBI is silent on that situation.  I don't know of any other subordinate policy documents (and a FAQ doesn't quite cut it).

I suspect that the intent is to not provide dual reimbursement.  However, the devil is in the details.  What follows is my interpretation of the somewhat terse FAQ and the CBI.

If the scholarship/bursary is unrestricted, then there is not problem - you got $4K and spent it on accomodation / food / alcohol / whatever; you're claiming reimbursement for tuition and eligible expenses paid for out of "other" money.  (Yes, the funds are co-mingled in your bank account, but that's not relevant here).

If, on the other hand, the scholarships and bursaries you receive are applied immediately to your tuition, then you can only claim the amount you paid after the reduction.

In other words:

If your tuition bill reads:

Tuition - Basket Weaving 101 - $6000
Less Scholarship              ($4000)

Amount owed                    $2000
Payment                       ($2000)

Balance                            0


Then your reimbursement would be 50% of the $2000 you actually paid.  If, on the other hand, the scholarship/bursary money went directly to you without conditions, the full amount of your basket weaving would be claimable (subject, of course, to the limits in the CBI).


----------



## muffin (1 Feb 2011)

Ok here is the information I received from DLI

210.801 – EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT – PRIMARY RESERVE

“education expenses” means:
(a) any costs of initial testing, enrolment fees and tuition to take a required course or program of required courses;
(b) any costs of necessary material for a required course, including books and instruments, but not paper, pens and other school supplies;
(c) any mandatory student union or council fees, library fees, laboratory fees and examination costs;
(d) any costs of printing and binding a thesis if necessary for a required course; and
(e) any other mandatory costs or fees, relating to a required course or program of required courses that are listed in the course syllabus or program documentation. (frais de scolarité)

210.801(7) (Claim for reimbursement) To obtain the reimbursement of education expenses, a CF 52 (General Allowance Claim) is to be submitted by the member in accordance with instructions issued by the Canadian Defence Academy, on or after the first day of the academic year following the academic year in which any required courses are successful completed, along with applicable receipts of education expenses and proof of successful completion of all courses for which reimbursement is requested for that academic year.

My understanding of the above CBI is that the member can claim for eligible expenses regardless of the number of scholarships received *PROVIDED THAT THE MEMBER PAID FOR THE EXPENSE.* If the scholarship is directed towards tuition and books the member did not pay for these expenses and thus can not be reimbursed. If the scholarship is not directed towards specific expenses and can be used for items such as room and board then the member is entitled to claim the amounts that he paid towards tuition and books up to the maximum of 2k per year / 8k lifetime under the current rules.

When you sign the CF52 you are certifying that these are actual expenses that you have incurred and are requesting reimbursement. Thus if the member has his tuition paid for via a scholarship and claims the amount it is fraud. It is also fraud to claim the tuition expenses on your taxes as a deduction if they are reimbursed by the Crown.


----------



## brihard (2 Feb 2011)

muffin said:
			
		

> It is also fraud to claim the tuition expenses on your taxes as a deduction if they are reimbursed by the Crown.



This is both curious and concerning. The tax returns no longer have you calculate specific dollar values; rather, there's a blanket credit applied per month of full time student status, with a lesser credit (roughly a quarter) for each month of part time student status. I can think of no means by which my student expenses could be calculated specifically on a tax return such that the $2000 reimbursement is applied against them. If my memory serves, however, I believe the education reimbursement is taxable?

I would very much like to hear if anyone has personal insight on this one- I don't want to be in a position where I could be held to have committed tax fraud, even if I acted in honest belief that I was doing things properly.


----------



## dapaterson (2 Feb 2011)

There are two things you can deduct:  There's a credit for being in school full or part time; that's not affected.  It's the actual tuition deduction in question here.

On your federal tax form it's line 320 of Schedule 11 - that's actual tuition paid.  If you receive reimbursement you should be claiming (Tuition paid minus reimbursement received).  


I don't believe the educational reimbursement is taxable, but it has been about 8 years since I was involved with the program, so don't take my word on that part.


----------



## infantryian (2 Feb 2011)

Quicktax has a free online tax program for students, if you check that out Im sure it will help you through all of the tax implications
http://turbotax.intuit.ca/personal-tax-software/online-tax-software.jsp
Although you have to be a student AND have a household income less than $20,000


----------



## brihard (2 Feb 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There are two things you can deduct:  There's a credit for being in school full or part time; that's not affected.  It's the actual tuition deduction in question here.
> 
> On your federal tax form it's line 320 of Schedule 11 - that's actual tuition paid.  If you receive reimbursement you should be claiming (Tuition paid minus reimbursement received).
> 
> ...



Ugh. Gonna have to look into this.

Here's another complication- Academic year 2009/2010, for which I recently submitted a claim, has not yet been reimbursed. I will receive my $2k reimbursement hopefully soon, but it will be a reimbursement of costs incurred in two different tax years, both of which I have already filed taxes for, and in both of which I claimed all applicable deductions for education. The reimbursement itself will be received in the 2011 tax year.

Methinks I need to get in touch with CRA.

Infnatryian- Thanks for that, but I don't qualify based on income. I've got a family member who picks up a full copy of one of those programs every year, and it lets you do five returns, so I'll use one of them. Tax software is awesome.


----------



## Bam_dice (20 Sep 2011)

I got a question what does reg force pay for as college wise? 
I am reserves now and wanna switch over to stocker and alot of the stocker education is more focus on that trade which does give much as for if I do a diploma for mechanical enginerring. What are your thoughts and opinions on this matter?  :-\


----------



## Blackadder1916 (21 Sep 2011)

Bam_dice said:
			
		

> I got a question what does reg force pay for as college wise?
> I am reserves now and wanna switch over to stocker and alot of the stocker education is more focus on that trade which does give much as for if I do a diploma for mechanical enginerring. What are your thoughts and opinions on this matter?  :-\



What's a "stocker"?  Is it like a "pile-it", only with neater results?  Is it a supply trade?

I'm not trying to be cryptically sarcastic (or sarcastically cryptic) but may I suggest you try to take a lesson from this thread.
The Importance of proper grammar on this forum AND in the CF 

As for your question, I honestly couldn't answer it because I don't know what you are asking. (_Okay, I am being somewhat sarcastic here._)


----------



## Bam_dice (21 Sep 2011)

Sorry i meant Stoker...is a nickname for mnm (marine enginerre mechanic) it's a navy trade. Actually the question I should have asked is... what does reg force do for education rebrushiment? 

Other questions:
Would they pay for your college education or the trade course education for mnm (stoker)? 
My goal is to get my mechical enginerring diploma and most of the stocker training is done on the west coast. The program is 2 years.


----------



## Michael OLeary (21 Sep 2011)

Marine Engineering Mechanic
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/marineengineeringmechanic-31#info-1



> Special Comments
> 
> A fully subsidized college education is available for this trade


----------



## Bam_dice (21 Sep 2011)

Yea I been the website not alot of info that it can help me with!


----------



## SkyZ (19 Dec 2014)

I was wondering if there is any scenario where the forces would pay for the education required to join a specific trade. For example if I wanted to become a MP Officer but I do not posses the degree needed is there an option for the schooling to be paid for by the forces and not out of my own pocket.


----------



## SkyZ (19 Dec 2014)

Thank you for your reply. I understand the comment about wanting to have the course relate to your job. What if, after in the CF for some time you decide to change trades which would require some education as a pre-req. Would I be able to do what you said having it not be directly trade related but it is related to the trade id look to change to?


----------



## Ayrsayle (21 Dec 2014)

While the advice given by both BorisK and CombatMacguyver may or may not address your specific questions (and for some NCM occupational trades you DO require civilian pre-reqs - IE specific high school courses), you did ask this in a CAF recruiter forum to get an official response.  

BorisK is entirely correct - If the poster wanted "anyone's" opinion, he would have posted it elsewhere.  Let's leave this area to the Moderators and Recruiters.  If you absolutely MUST answer these questions, make use of a private message.


----------



## Master Corporal Steven (5 Jan 2015)

Good day,

I apologize for the delay in response from a qualified recruiter. There are several paid education entry plans available for both NCM and Officer Occupations. The following link will take you to the section of the Forces.ca website that provides information on Paid education entry plans: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/paideducation-96

For some more information on paid education to become a Military Police Officer you can review this post: http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/117185/post-1341032.html#msg1341032


----------



## Lecreuset (27 Aug 2015)

Hello everyone,

I have question about the paid education program. I know(more like recently found out to be honest) it is recommended that you apply to a college of a trade you want in the forces before you actually apply in the CF so would it be too late to try and get in the paid education program after I've already done my online application? I am currently at a point where my aptitude test is already scheduled.

I work and I am not a student of any sorts at the moment.


----------



## Warrant Officer Robert (27 Aug 2015)

Lecreuset said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have question about the paid education program. I know(more like recently found out to be honest) it is recommended that you apply to a college of a trade you want in the forces before you actually apply in the CF so would it be too late to try and get in the paid education program after I've already done my online application? I am currently at a point where my aptitude test is already scheduled.
> 
> I work and I am not a student of any sorts at the moment.



For those who are applying for an occupation, where NCM STEP (Non-Commissioned Member Subsidized Training and Employment Program) is an available entry plan/option, you will be required to obtain "unconditional" acceptance into an approved/recognized College level program applicable to that occupation as a condition of enrolment.

You can provide the letter of unconditional acceptance at any time but this must be done prior to being enrolled into the CAF.  It is not a requirement at the time of application.


----------



## Mediman14 (13 Feb 2016)

I was wondering if anyone has any insight on education reimbursement. I looked though several past conversations but they are several years old. Is there any updates.? 
 I was looking to do some distance courses to help further myself.  

Thanks


----------



## George Wallace (13 Feb 2016)

Perhaps I should start posting:

"If you can not research the topic that has been posted and answered thousands of times already, then you do not deserve an Education Reimbursement."

Once again......


Topic LOCKED


----------



## Armored_Crew_Man (30 Mar 2016)

So when I first applied to the C.A.F. I was highly interested in armored crewmen and infantry. Artillery got eliminated right when I failed my color blind test In 2015. I had also failed the eye exam and could not qualify for v3 requirement for combat specialist, Luckily I had a nice local eye doctor that barely let me pass when I re did the test with him.

During this time (March 2015) I had to send in my finger prints for a Y.O. record when I was 17, I am now 19. A full YEAR has passed and now the finger prints are finally all good and done with and I'm ready to move on with my application. In this gap of time I took a paramedic course at an accredited college ( I really didn't think the military was an option anymore). I am now really set on becoming a paramedic and a combat specialist is no longer an interest of mine, but being in the C.A.F. is still a goal of mine I want to achieve.

I keep trying to call the Ottawa recruitment center but I can never get to speak to a recruitment officer, so before I have to drive up there to speak to one I figured I'd ask on here. So my question is. Am I able to switch my career choice to Medical Technician at this point of my application? My aptitude scores were high enough and I am currently enrolled in the program with very good marks. Second question, for paid education. Would I be able to qualify for paid education for my last year of the program beginning in September? I would not be able to do basic training this summer approaching as I am abroad for a volunteer program for 12 weeks, I read that you do your training during the summer months...I am hoping it could be done next summer. If anyone has any information that could help it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.


----------



## mariomike (30 Mar 2016)

Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> Am I able to switch my career choice to Medical Technician at this point of my application?



Change in Occupation choices??  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/63447.50.html
3ages.

Changing Trades  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/122335.0

etc...

If you search changing trades during the application process in the Recruiting forum, you will find a number of discussions.



			
				Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> Would I be able to qualify for paid education for my last year of the program beginning in September?



Education Reimbursement  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/782.25
7 pages

Paid Eduation  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/120330.0

CAF Paying for Education 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/117323.0

etc...



			
				Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> I am now really set on becoming a paramedic



You mean _after_  the military?

For future reference, perhaps "Question regarding Paid Education" should be merged with "Education Reimbursement".  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/782.25
7 pages


----------



## Armored_Crew_Man (30 Mar 2016)

Sorry I should of looked better to find my answer. Thanks for the links! As In I am "set on becoming a paramedic" I meant I am set on completing my 2 year Paramedic program now that I have already completed almost two semesters.


----------



## sarahsmom (30 Mar 2016)

Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> I would not be able to do basic training this summer approaching as I am abroad for a volunteer program for 12 weeks, I read that you do your training during the summer months...I am hoping it could be done next summer. If anyone has any information that could help it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.



Based on your profile it says you are applying for Reg F. Reg F trains year round. So basic can start anytime, not just in the summer.
Once you are in, as in signed your papers and sworn in, you are in. I very much doubt the CAF will grant 12 weeks unpaid leave for a volunteer program to an untrained private who hasn't even done basic. 
But talk to your recruiter about it. They are the ones that will know best.



			
				Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> Luckily I had a nice local eye doctor that barely let me pass when I re did the test with him.


I'm a little concerned about this sentence. Are you saying your "nice" eye doctor fudged finessed the numbers on your eye exam so you could get a V3? That would likely be discovered at your next medical and if so, would make you have to medically OT to another trade. A lot of money and time wasted for everyone training someone who is medically unfit for that trade.  There are reasons for the medical trade requirements, and its not cuz we don't want combat arms members who wear glasses.


----------



## DAA (30 Mar 2016)

Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> In this gap of time I took a paramedic course at an accredited college ( I really didn't think the military was an option anymore). I am now really set on becoming a paramedic and a combat specialist is no longer an interest of mine, but being in the C.A.F. is still a goal of mine I want to achieve.
> 
> I keep trying to call the Ottawa recruitment center but I can never get to speak to a recruitment officer, so before I have to drive up there to speak to one I figured I'd ask on here. So my question is. Am I able to switch my career choice to Medical Technician at this point of my application? My aptitude scores were high enough and I am currently enrolled in the program with very good marks. Second question, for paid education. Would I be able to qualify for paid education for my last year of the program beginning in September? I would not be able to do basic training this summer approaching as I am abroad for a volunteer program for 12 weeks, I read that you do your training during the summer months...I am hoping it could be done next summer. If anyone has any information that could help it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.



You have three options available but "paid education" isn't any of them because NCM STEP just doesn't work that way.

1 - CLOSE your current application, then reapply 4-6 months prior to graduation/completion of your paramedic course.  This "should" qualify you as a "semi-skilled" Med Tech applicant, which comes with pay incentives on enrolment.   ***you need to first confirm with your local CFRC, that the paramedic program/course you are taking is RECOGNIZED by the CAF***
2 - contact your local CFRC and ask to have Med Tech listed as your #1 choice, in which case you would be considered as an "unskilled" Med Tech applicant and upon completion of your processing, subject to a possible offer of employment at any time.
3 - leave things as they are and take your chances.

Good luck but be sure to check that your current program is "recognized"!!!


----------



## mariomike (30 Mar 2016)

Armored_Crew_Man said:
			
		

> Sorry I should of looked better to find my answer. Thanks for the links!



You are welcome. Good luck.  

Armored_Crew_Man, if applying for Med Tech, you may find this discussion of interest ( in case you have not read it already ),

Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
http://army.ca/forums/threads/81858.0
5 pages.


----------



## kellar16 (11 Apr 2016)

Hey guys, i was in college for welding the last year and graduated with my welding ticket, i applied for materials tech (which a huge part of that is welding and thats why i applied). i was notified that the 11th (today) and the 18th the board is sitting down to decide who gets jobs for that position and my application manager told me to call her back in 2 weeks if i have not heard anything.... 

so now to my question, if/when i get a job offer after i get in is it possible to get my tuition costs paid for since my college since its in the same field? ive heard about paid education and what not but i wasn't sure if this type of stuff was covered.


----------



## kellar16 (11 Apr 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> For future reference, perhaps "Education Refund?" will be merged with "Education Reimbursement".
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/782.0;nowap
> 7 pages.



thanks a lot for the info


----------



## SteviePete (18 Oct 2016)

Hello, I have looked all over for the specific answer I have been looking for and havnt found it. 
   I applied online for MP, and firefighting. I graduated grade 12 in 2014, I'm 19 right now. My application was selected for further processing I was told to email the recruiting centre for an appointment one week ago for the CFAT which I'm still waiting on a reply.
  I havnt taken Police Foundations or anything, my understanding is that if college is needed I can go through paid education, is that the same for my case wanting to be an MP? 
   If I can't get either occupation I'm also interested in infantry, but I really want to be MP that's my dream, being police but also serving the country. Does anybody have an idea if police foundations would be covered by them or should I have taken it before I applied?
  Thankyou in advance for any answers.


----------



## mariomike (18 Oct 2016)

SteviePete said:
			
		

> I havnt taken Police Foundations or anything,





			
				SteviePete said:
			
		

> Does anybody have an idea if police foundations would be covered by them or should I have taken it before I applied?



Required Education 
The minimum required education to apply for this position is a community college diploma in Law and Security Administration, Police Foundations, or a similar program from a recognized Canadian community college or CEGEP. Foreign education may be accepted. Related employment experience will also be considered during the application process.

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## DAA (19 Oct 2016)

SteviePete said:
			
		

> Hello, I have looked all over for the specific answer I have been looking for and havnt found it.
> I applied online for MP, and firefighting. I graduated grade 12 in 2014, I'm 19 right now. My application was selected for further processing I was told to email the recruiting centre for an appointment one week ago for the CFAT which I'm still waiting on a reply.
> I havnt taken Police Foundations or anything, my understanding is that if college is needed I can go through paid education, is that the same for my case wanting to be an MP?
> If I can't get either occupation I'm also interested in infantry, but I really want to be MP that's my dream, being police but also serving the country. Does anybody have an idea if police foundations would be covered by them or should I have taken it before I applied?
> Thankyou in advance for any answers.



In order to be considered for MP, you will need to already have graduated from a recognized College Level Law Enforcement Program (ie; Police Foundations, Law and Security, etc).

To be considered for Firefighter, I believe you will also need to already be qualified "NFPA 1001 Fire Fighter Level I" and have prior experience.  Your local Recruiting Detachment can provide additional details about the requirements for both of these occupations.

Paid Education is NOT an available option for either of these occupations at the present time.


----------



## deanoater (16 Dec 2016)

Im curious to know if I do police foundations or a pre service fire fighting course in college is it possible for me to get into the paid education plan? If so whats it like and what are the commitments in college


----------



## mariomike (16 Dec 2016)

deanoater said:
			
		

> Im curious to know if I do police foundations or a pre service fire fighting course in college is it possible for me to get into the paid education plan?



Education Reimbursement  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/782.25
7 pages

Paid Eduation  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/120330.0

CAF Paying for Education 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/117323.0

Question regarding Paid Education 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122552.0

etc...

Forces.ca
Paid Education
"Talk to a recruiter. They will 1) help you choose the best paid education plan for your specific career path, and 2) will tell you which college programs are currently supported by the Forces."
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/paideducation-96

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## da1root (18 Dec 2016)

Good Day,

Please note that there are SEVERAL paid education opportunities in the CAF. The programs you've listed are college level and there aren't many occupations (I think only 5) with NCM-STEP as an entry plan.
I'm not back into the office until 5-Jan so I'm not 100% sure what those 5 occupations are but I do know that Military Police and Firefighter are not in the list.

Cheers


----------



## nyrox (11 Mar 2017)

So, this may be a stupid question, or a question asked often. I also may have many of you tell me to "just ask your recruiter" and if you're going to comment that, don't bother. You aren't helping me. I'm posting here because I feel like I'll get a quicker response. 
I'm still in high school and have been steady contemplating joining up for next year. (Graduating in June) I'm not too up-to-date on these things and think you guys could help me get some quick info.
ANYWAYS my question is, basically: If I were to join the forces not through the paid education program, is there still an option to attend school and have it covered by the Forces in the future during service? Or is it where whatever you choose, you're sticking with it for the rest of your career?

My reason for asking is that the paid education is part of the reason I want to join, but also am unsure of what I want to take in university/college. I want to be in the Forces as soon as possible, but don't want to go to school unsure of what I truly want to take, if that makes any sense. Any attempt at a helpful response is appreciated  [


----------



## mariomike (11 Mar 2017)

nyrox said:
			
		

> My reason for asking is that the paid education is part of the reason I want to join, but also am unsure of what I want to take in university/college.



Paid Education
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+paid+education&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=blDEWJuoA8yC8QeEyYGwBw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22paid+education%22&*



			
				nyrox said:
			
		

> is there still an option to attend school and have it covered by the Forces in the future during service?



Education Reimbursement  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/782.150
7 pages.

Subsidized education plan for Non-Commissioned Members  
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+paid+education&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=blDEWJuoA8yC8QeEyYGwBw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+sep+&*

See also,

NCM to Officer (UTPNCM) Merged Thread  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/82016.450

etc...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## nyrox (11 Mar 2017)

mariomike,
Thanks for the quick reply! Although your links cleared up some lighter questions I had, it doesn't answer the main one I'm concerned with.
To re-word it and maybe make it clearer, If i join through direct entry am I able to take time after, say 2 years, of working to attend school and then have it reimbursed? If this question is answered in one of those links, could you tell me which page? I'm having a hard time finding it if so.


----------



## mariomike (11 Mar 2017)

nyrox said:
			
		

> mariomike,
> Thanks for the quick reply!



You are welcome. Good luck.  



			
				nyrox said:
			
		

> If i join through direct entry am I able to take time after, say 2 years, of working to attend school and then have it reimbursed?



Education Reimbursement  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/782.150
7 pages.

As always,  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## George Wallace (11 Mar 2017)

One interesting thing about getting an education, is that one must learn how to do research and understand what they have found.  If everything is handed to them on a silver spoon, they seldom learn, nor remember, the material.

Thanks once again mariomike for doing so much research for others.


----------



## nyrox (11 Mar 2017)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> One interesting thing about getting an education, is that one must learn how to do research and understand what they have found.  If everything is handed to them on a silver spoon, they seldom learn, nor remember, the material.


 Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.


----------



## mariomike (11 Mar 2017)

nyrox said:
			
		

> You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.


----------



## kratz (11 Mar 2017)

nyrox said:
			
		

> Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.



On an open forum, you do not have the ability to frame how others will respond to your questions. When you ask strangers for help with a question, you are at the mercy of their time, inclination to reply and the information contain in the answer.


----------



## Loachman (11 Mar 2017)

nyrox said:
			
		

> Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.



Welcome to Army.ca, nyrox.

Please do not attempt to tell DS what the purpose of a forum section that they moderate is. That never goes over well.

This Site is run by serving and former serving Members of the CF. We run it in accordance with the experience and expectations that we have derived from that Service. We expect members to do their homework before asking questions, and for good and valid reasons. Answering questions takes time, and few here have excesses of that precious commodity. We do not mind answering questions, but it gets a trifle irksome responding to the same questions again and again and again. Repetition also clogs up the Site, making searches more onerous and threads longer and more repetitive.

Most information that people seek is already here, and searching has benefits. Aside from developing familiarity with the Site and where information can be found, people frequently find answers to questions that have not even occurred to them at that point.

If something has not already been answered/explained here before, people will happily do their best to provide answers and explanations.

There will be little sympathy, however, for those who are unwilling to spend their own time yet expect others to do so for them.

You'll find the same attitude in the CF as a whole.

That aside, you mentioned "direct entry". "Direct Entry Officer" (DEO) has a specific meaning, but I am not sure that was your question. DEO is a programme for Officer applicants who already have a degree, as opposed to ROTP or CEOTP.

Edited - I finally noticed my formatting error.


----------



## runormal (11 Mar 2017)

Seeing how it is already March and you haven't applied to school you are not setting yourself up for success.

I'd suggest taking a 5th of year of highschool and go from there, that's what I did and I have no regrets, except not taking French/additional science courses) 

You could join the reserves in the process and try out the army, but a timely transfer to the reg-f isn't a guarantee. So if you are thinking of going reg-f in the short term I'm not sure if I'd recommend it. But if you want to go to school you can't find a better job for a student (unless you find something in your field of study).

Option 3 would be to just so the 3-4 year  Reg-F contract and see if you like it. Nothing is making you make a career out of it. Unless you make poor financial choices such as a buying a house or a car that you can't afford or drinking all of your money away.


----------



## dapaterson (11 Mar 2017)

There are a handful of programs in place for serving CAF members to go back to school full-time.  However, there are no guarantees.  Selection for the limited number of positions available is done on a competitive basis.  As well, there are pre-requisites to be eligible for such in-service selection processes.

TL;DR: Yes, but...


----------



## sailorprivateer (11 Mar 2017)

Why don't you apply the ROTP for the 2017-18, if you won't get selected, you can always go for NCM and hoping for UTPNCM when that eligibility comes? I'm interested in the latter but I've been doing distant education and got a couple of credits already with the money I've earned working in a factory. It's good when you are awarded by the CAF's education reimbursement gimmick but taking a couple of courses $600-$700 each online course from your own pocket, how bad of an investment is that if you really want a degree or diploma? $1500 (including exam fee) for a term or year, it's something you might want to consider giving up until you got awarded by their education reimbursement or UTPNCM - cuz I'm already decided on spending education with my own pocket whether or not I get reimbursed or whatever. But getting reimbursed would be dope tho.  [

Best of luck.


----------



## blacktriangle (11 Mar 2017)

You can get reimbursed through an Individual Learning Plan (ILP) easy enough.


----------



## mariomike (11 Mar 2017)

More on the above, in case the OP is interested,

All things Individual Learning Plan/ILP (merged) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/27773.25

individualized learning plan  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122063.0

etc...


----------



## Pat in Halifax (13 Mar 2017)

As well NCM STEP is no longer restricted to new entry only...though this is not generally advertised for some reason....? The same rules apply though; benefit of the Service.....
I'd recommend once you are in to see the BPSO or in some cases, some Units/Bases/??? have NCM PD Councillors.


----------



## da1root (13 Mar 2017)

I'm on weighing in on ROTP since it was suggested.  The ROTP deadline for ROTP 2017/2018 has already passed, anyone submitting an application for ROTP at this point in time will not be considered until the 2018/2019 campaign begins.

Also nrox, since you're thinking about joining the CAF it would be wise to learn now to decide who you "mouth off" to.  Telling a moderator or directing staff not to be a dick is essentially like telling an instructor or course director in the military the same thing.  Best to learn to bite your tongue now... ;-)


----------



## Ryan_T (14 Mar 2017)

nyrox said:
			
		

> Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.


Nyrox.. i have read your request and seen the responses. As much as George looks like he was throwing sarcasm at you w/ the wording, he is right. 

The other are right as well. I get confused as to where the answers are to my questions as well since i dont search the forum enough. 

I am not sure of your age, but i do recommend carefully checking your options and think 'is the CF (with different personalities) where i want to be. They are point blank & blunt in the CF. I was in Borden and experienced it.

So dont take it to heart if you get a response like that.. i have learned as well. On top of that, you cant tell how serious a person is normally through text.


			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> Welcome to Army.ca, nyrox.
> 
> Please do not attempt to tell DS what the purpose of a forum section that they moderate is. That never goes over well.
> 
> ...




Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pfred2008 (31 Aug 2017)

I want to make a better life for myself and also serve for the country but problem is, I make a comfortable living right now but just comfortable. I make about 38,000 a year. From what I read, i'll be making like half of that by joining the forces but I also don't understand the A B ladder all that much either. I was wondering, what is the paid education salary like? Eventually, I will make more money of course but i'm sure some of you understand it's scary leaving a comfort zone.


----------



## ladnav96 (4 Sep 2017)

Hi guys hope this is the right place for this. 

I'm looking to apply in military police, but haven't found any info on paid education for this particular job only that direct entry requires a degree or diploma relating to the job. Like a police technique diploma. Is this a kind of paid education available or do I need to obtain it beforehand.


----------



## mariomike (4 Sep 2017)

ladnav96 said:
			
		

> I'm looking to apply in military police, but haven't found any info on paid education for this particular job only that direct entry requires a degree or diploma relating to the job. Like a police technique diploma. Is this a kind of paid education available or do I need to obtain it beforehand.



Reply #167,



			
				Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> Please note that there are SEVERAL paid education opportunities in the CAF. The programs you've listed are college level and there aren't many occupations (I think only 5) with NCM-STEP as an entry plan.
> I'm not back into the office until 5-Jan so I'm not 100% sure what those 5 occupations are but I do know that Military Police and Firefighter are not in the list.



Buck is our Recruiting moderator.


----------



## da1root (7 Sep 2017)

Pfred2008 said:
			
		

> I want to make a better life for myself and also serve for the country but problem is, I make a comfortable living right now but just comfortable. I make about 38,000 a year. From what I read, i'll be making like half of that by joining the forces but I also don't understand the A B ladder all that much either. I was wondering, what is the paid education salary like? Eventually, I will make more money of course but i'm sure some of you understand it's scary leaving a comfort zone.



It depends on what you're wanting to join so there is no "simple" answer.

NCMs are paid on one scale, Officers depending whether enrolling DEO, ROTP, MOTP, DOTP or SEELM are paid on another set of scales; and even as DEO certain occupations (Pilot, Dental, Medical for example) get a higher pay rate.

NCM Pay Scale: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page
      Beginning pay for NCMs is: $2,985/month ($35,820/year) - this is before deductions

Officer Pay Scale: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-class-c-officer-rates.page
      Beginning pay for ROTP is: $1,667/month ($20,004/year) - this is before deductions - and keep in mind the CAF is also paying Education costs (tuition, books, etc) on top of this.
      Beginning pay for DEO is: $4,083/month ($48,996) - this is before deductions 
For the beginning pay for the others it's best to discuss your situation with a Recruiter.



			
				ladnav96 said:
			
		

> I'm looking to apply in military police, but haven't found any info on paid education for this particular job only that direct entry requires a degree or diploma relating to the job. Like a police technique diploma. Is this a kind of paid education available or do I need to obtain it beforehand.



As mike so kindly pointed out from one of my previous posts, paid education (NCM-STEP) is not available for Military Police. Semi-skilled (meaning you have education already) is the only entry plan for Military Police.  (thanks mike!)


----------



## Schwartzie55 (11 May 2018)

Hey Buck.

I’m applying to ROTP-AERE this September. I noticed that your May 3 update for Paid Education Intake #’s for AERE shows as 20.
I understand that it would typically vary from year to year but would you have a idea of approximately how many applications are received for ROTP-AERE annually? Just wondering how competitive AERE is considering there are only those 20 openings.

Thanks.


----------



## da1root (14 May 2018)

Schwartzie55 said:
			
		

> Hey Buck.
> 
> I’m applying to ROTP-AERE this September. I noticed that your May 3 update for Paid Education Intake #’s for AERE shows as 20.
> I understand that it would typically vary from year to year but would you have a idea of approximately how many applications are received for ROTP-AERE annually? Just wondering how competitive AERE is considering there are only those 20 openings.
> ...



It's difficult to track how many applications are received annually as individuals have the option of picking 3 trades to join.  I'm sure there's someone with CFRG HQ that is tracking that and I'm sure there's an analytic within the system that pulls that info; but I don't track that sort of information.

As for competitiveness... right now there's approximately 16,000 active applications for just over 5,000 spots - so the CAF in general is competitive.


----------



## dubble (24 May 2018)

Hi everyone,

Following a discussion about ROTP with one of the officers in my unit I was hoping to see if anyone could answer a question before I take it officially to a recruiter. It seems like a fairly non-cookie-cutter situation so finding info online has been difficult.

Situation is as follows: I'm a reserve infantry NCM attending university full time. I have 3 years of study + 1 year of co-op left and after earning my degree I've been considering applying for a CT to the air force as a pilot (I know, how cliché). The officer I was speaking to recommended I apply to ROTP to get the rest of my education paid for and secure that position afterward. Having researched the idea, however, I'm finding that with ROTP you're made an OCdt and employed as such until you finish your degree and complete the relevant training. I would rather stay in my current role during my studies, though, so I'm wondering if that's possible at all. Essentially the goal would be to secure the funding and the job, keep my current job, then transition after graduation. That said, I can see how that would be administratively difficult.

Perhaps UTPNCM is more in-line with what I'm looking for? But from what I've read that programme seems more oriented to giving NCMs a full education as offered by RMC. My other option would be to continue as I have and claim the maximum amount of ILP, which would be fine financially because that's a sweet $8,000 on top of OSAP and my already decent savings and what ever I'll earn working Class A/B, but I'd like to eliminate the risk of applying for a CT later down the road and either not getting it or having it stuck in logistic limbo.

Thanks


----------



## sidemount (25 May 2018)

dubble said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> 
> Following a discussion about ROTP with one of the officers in my unit I was hoping to see if anyone could answer a question before I take it officially to a recruiter. It seems like a fairly non-cookie-cutter situation so finding info online has been difficult.
> 
> ...



So this may or may not help your decision. The UTPNCM program is only open to Reg Force pers anyway so you wouldn't be able to apply. 

If you decided to CT and do the ROTP program, since you are already attending university, it would be very likely that that would be where you stay. In saying that you would be appointed to OCdt but you would keep the pay of your previous NCM rank. You would also be posted to the BTL of closest base to your university. During the summer holidays you would be doing 1 of 2 things....either attending BOMQ or trades training if it fits into your summer. If not then the ULO has to find employment for you for the summer months. If your current bosses want to keep you around then they can very easily send request to the ULO for you to go back and work at your reserve unit. 

Yes they do try to employ you in such a way that is related to your trade but that's not always possible and having a spot to work makes the ULO's job very easy to send you there. I'm not saying that is def how it would work, but it is a possibility.


----------



## dubble (3 Jun 2018)

Ah so there's pretty well no way I could forego the appointment to OCdt then? I understand the reasoning, it's just a little disappointing as I'll be doing my IJLC this summer and would like to actually apply those skills to my unit for a while before moving forward. I guess I'll probably follow-through with claiming my ILP and see where that takes me. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Jarnhamar (4 Jul 2018)

Do we have anything in the CAF that would allow for a soldier to have the CAF pay for his part time university courses online?

I know under the NCM-PD the courses are $400 and the CAF will reimburse after completion of the certificate but how does it work for university? I think the courses are around $800 each.

I don't believe they're interested in being an officer (at least not yet), it would be courses to finish a BA they started a couple years ago or maybe start a new one in a different field.


----------



## brihard (4 Jul 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Do we have anything in the CAF that would allow for a soldier to have the CAF pay for his part time university courses online?
> 
> I know under the NCM-PD the courses are $400 and the CAF will reimburse after completion of the certificate but how does it work for university? I think the courses are around $800 each.
> 
> I don't believe they're interested in being an officer (at least not yet), it would be courses to finish a BA they started a couple years ago or maybe start a new one in a different field.



Best contact for guidance would probably be BPSO... But any accredited university should be fine, and most universities are offering online courses now.


----------



## Mediman14 (4 Jul 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Do we have anything in the CAF that would allow for a soldier to have the CAF pay for his part time university courses online?
> 
> I know under the NCM-PD the courses are $400 and the CAF will reimburse after completion of the certificate but how does it work for university? I think the courses are around $800 each.
> 
> I don't believe they're interested in being an officer (at least not yet), it would be courses to finish a BA they started a couple years ago or maybe start a new one in a different field.


I agree with Brihard, the BPSO would be your best bet, however I have a few subordinates are doing similar. They all have approve ILP's. The BPSO intranet page should have the link for ILP's. It's worth a try!


----------



## sidemount (4 Jul 2018)

Ive got a few folks set up with ILPs

Its a pretty simple online form, the only part that requires a bit of thought is the justification write up portion. Word it so the education benefits the CAF. 

After that tuition and book fees are paid out once the course is passed.

Queen's University has a large selection of online courses that may be worth looking at.

Again like the others have said, the BPSO will have some more answers.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## Jarnhamar (4 Jul 2018)

Thanks for the help all.

So buddy will have to sell the university course to the army to get the course approved. He pays for the course upfront and the army will give him the money back if he passes?

9 out of 13 courses for the ncm one get wrote off. Would university guys be able to get some wrote off too for military service? Maybe depending on what course?  Non-plq qualified Cpl.


----------



## dapaterson (4 Jul 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help all.
> 
> So buddy will have to sell the university course to the army to get the course approved. He pays for the course upfront and the army will give him the money back if he passes?
> 
> 9 out of 13 courses for the ncm one get wrote off. Would university guys be able to get some wrote off too for military service? Maybe depending on what course?  Non-plq qualified Cpl.



There is an online tool that maps mil and civ quals - "Your QL5A basketweaving gets you 7 credits to a philosophy degree at WossaMotta U" or "Your diploma in losing paperwork gets you your junior officer staff qualification written off".

Can't find it right now, but the governing DAOD (in need of a refresh) is at: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-1.page


EDIT to add: From the CAF Education & Training page: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-equivalencies/index.page


----------



## sidemount (4 Jul 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help all.
> 
> So buddy will have to sell the university course to the army to get the course approved. He pays for the course upfront and the army will give him the money back if he passes?
> 
> 9 out of 13 courses for the ncm one get wrote off. Would university guys be able to get some wrote off too for military service? Maybe depending on what course?  Non-plq qualified Cpl.



Yup exactly. Once passed, you bring in proof and you are paid out in a regular claim.

Easiest way to word it is advancing education to make them better in their current trade and for the eventual advancement to "insert officer trade here". Just make it sound good. The ilp page also has some example substantiation writeups that will help.

As for writing off courses, thats pretty university dependent. I think university of Manitoba does a few but not sure what they are. I had a couple from RMC due to the POET course, and nothing from Queen's U.
Im not sure about the NCM PD courses as I jumped to the dark side before I had a chance to do them. As far as I know they are just college level.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## MJP (4 Jul 2018)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Do we have anything in the CAF that would allow for a soldier to have the CAF pay for his part time university courses online?
> 
> I know under the NCM-PD the courses are $400 and the CAF will reimburse after completion of the certificate but how does it work for university? I think the courses are around $800 each.
> 
> I don't believe they're interested in being an officer (at least not yet), it would be courses to finish a BA they started a couple years ago or maybe start a new one in a different field.



Absolutely DAOD 5031-5, Canadian Forces Continuing Education Program (CFCEP) is the go to reference.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-5.page

What is reimbursable is under  ADM HR Mil Instruction 17/04 - Education Reimbursement for the Regular Force (no web link)

Key parts:
*
Aim*
3.3 The aim of the CFCEP is to facilitate access to post-secondary educational services.
*
Negotiated Agreements*
4.4 The CDA negotiates agreements at the university and college level with English and French academic institutions. The purpose of these agreements is:

to provide easy access to post-secondary education for CAF members, and
to establish, in some cases, a CAF education coordinator at the institution to facilitate access.

*Services Offered*
5.1 The following services are an integral part of the CFCEP:

national coordination of CFCEP;
advertising the CFCEP services;
academic counselling services;
reduced residency requirements;
registration and transcript services;
prior learning assessment and recognition, including:
evaluation of military training and skills;
recognition of other pertinent post-secondary learning towards a diploma or degree; and
advanced standing in recognition of military training, skills and experience where appropriate;
opportunities to write exams off campus; and
tailored administrative or support services to simplify and accelerate processes and provide special consideration in order that a CAF member not be penalized for failing to write an examination or complete a course as a result of a deployment or other military exigency or circumstance.
Note - More information on the services can be found on the CDA website or obtained from the B/WPSO or B/WEO.


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## MJP (6 Jul 2018)

Not at work so can't check DWAN or call the BPSO's office but do you have to wait to finish a crse to be reimbursed for initial programme enrollment/application and other such fees?  Just started my masters but the entry into the programme isn't cheap and the less I have have to pay interest on the amounts the better.


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## Mediman14 (6 Jul 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> Not at work so can't check DWAN or call the BPSO's office but do you have to wait to finish a crse to be reimbursed for initial programme enrollment/application and other such fees?  Just started my masters but the entry into the programme isn't cheap and the less I have have to pay interest on the amounts the better.


Yes, you do have to complete the course with a passing grade in order to be reimbursed. A good rule of thumb is to ask for more than what everything costs. You will only get back what you paid, but there is always some unexpected cost such as a increase cost from a proctor/ invigilator!


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## MJP (6 Jul 2018)

Mediman14 said:
			
		

> Yes, you do have to complete the course with a passing grade in order to be reimbursed. A good rule of thumb is to ask for more than what everything costs. You will only get back what you paid, but there is always some unexpected cost such as a increase cost from a proctor/ invigilator!



Rog, tracking that.  I don't think I was clear in my question, I am only referring to costs not directly related to courses.  In my case entry into the program before any course costs is just over $2k.   I won't be done my first crse until end-October , so if I can get those costs covered before that would be ideal.


----------



## Zarack21 (10 Jul 2018)

I've inquired before and ILPs do not provide advance on courses.

Reimbursement upon successfully passing the course.


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## MJP (10 Jul 2018)

Zarack21 said:
			
		

> I've inquired before and ILPs do not provide advance on courses.
> 
> Reimbursement upon successfully passing the course.



Yes, I know that. 

I am asking about all the fees to get into a programme!  They will be paying them whether I take one crse or finish the programme so it shouldn't matter when they pay it.


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## Mediman14 (10 Jul 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> Rog, tracking that.  I don't think I was clear in my question, I am only referring to costs not directly related to courses.  In my case entry into the program before any course costs is just over $2k.   I won't be done my first crse until end-October , so if I can get those costs covered before that would be ideal.



I think I understand now! ILP will only cover certain things relevant to the course / program. Some of the things they will not cover is 
 Parking, Buying a PC, Transportation. I could give you more detailed list tomorrow, as I am not at work currently.

They will cover most fee's associated such as, admission fee's, etc. Those are usually fee's that is mandatory for students to pay no matter what program you enter.


What kind of Fee's are you looking at?


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## MJP (10 Jul 2018)

Mediman14 said:
			
		

> I think I understand now! ILP will only cover certain things relevant to the course / program. Some of the things they will not cover is
> Parking, Buying a PC, Transportation. I could give you more detailed list tomorrow, as I am not at work currently.
> 
> They will cover most fee's associated such as, admission fee's, etc. Those are usually fee's that is mandatory for students to pay no matter what program you enter.
> ...



Application
Admission
Assessment fee

I know that those are covered as I had an ILP years ago that had similar fees.  However this programme is pretty heavy on the initial fees for a few reasons.  My question is will they cover those costs before I complete a single crse?  My gut says no, but I am on leave and won't be able to check with the BPSO's office for a few weeks so just checking in with the Army.ca collective.


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## Mediman14 (11 Jul 2018)

No, they will not pay fir it up front. Like mention before, when submitting your ILP you should include those costs. Once you successfully complete the course you would be reimbursed. However, I am not sure about "an assessment fee". Hope that helps


----------



## Mediman14 (11 Jul 2018)

Sorry, my daughter hit the wrong on me! The application, admission fee is covered once successfully completed


----------



## hattrick72 (18 Jul 2018)

Any ideas why ILPs are not being funded? 

Funding for new ILPs is currently unavailable. Ill & Injured and CEOTP ILPs will still be approved. Please continue to submit your ILP, it will be placed in the queue and once new funding becomes available, we will advise.


----------



## MJP (18 Jul 2018)

hattrick72 said:
			
		

> Any ideas why ILPs are not being funded?
> 
> Funding for new ILPs is currently unavailable. Ill & Injured and CEOTP ILPs will still be approved. Please continue to submit your ILP, it will be placed in the queue and once new funding becomes available, we will advise.



Cause they ran out of funding for this FY?  Sorry, editing cause my answer comes off as flippant when I just meant to be sarcastic.

One of the problems with the ILP model is they have a finite amount of money and once it is eaten by previously approved and new ILPs they have no mechanism to approve additional ILPs until they secure additional funding.


----------



## hattrick72 (18 Jul 2018)

That is less worrisome than I thought.


----------



## TCM621 (20 Jul 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> Cause they ran out of funding for this FY?  Sorry, editing cause my answer comes off as flippant when I just meant to be sarcastic.
> 
> One of the problems with the ILP model is they have a finite amount of money and once it is eaten by previously approved and new ILPs they have no mechanism to approve additional ILPs until they secure additional funding.



Seems pretty early in the fiscal year to run out of money, doesn't it? And not that I paid a great deal of attention over the years but I can't remember this happening in recent memory.


----------



## MJP (20 Jul 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> Seems pretty early in the fiscal year to run out of money, doesn't it? And not that I paid a great deal of attention over the years but I can't remember this happening in recent memory.


''Likely a result of a concerted push to have more options for NCMs for education upgrading and general awareness of the programs available.  It wasn't long ago that barely anyone I knew had an ILP, now everyone has one!


----------



## Mediman14 (20 Jul 2018)

This might be an obvious answer to this but, ref ILP, Ill and injured, I assume that is referring to JPSU members?


----------



## hattrick72 (20 Jul 2018)

I felt it was early in the fiscal year as well and then I thought to myself I wonder how we plan on paying the new education benefits available to pers who leave the military after 6 years.... Hopefully it sorts itself out in the next two months


----------



## kratz (20 Jul 2018)

hattrick72,

There is an ongoing shift WRT higher education. The changes will be longer than 6 months, more like multi-year.

The changes are affecting everyone, but budgets are not funded for the demand from those who qualify.


----------



## TCM621 (25 Jul 2018)

Mediman14 said:
			
		

> This might be an obvious answer to this but, ref ILP, Ill and injured, I assume that is referring to JPSU members?



I spoke to the BPSO about that the other day and it isn't just for JPSU members but anyone who is likely to be medically released. A good example would be someone on a three year retention. The main differences are that it isn't as restrictive as the normal ERP but a MO has to sign off that you can do the training within your MELs.


----------



## Redhead8989 (30 Aug 2018)

Another thing many people do not know is that (in my unit and probably others) you are able to request a laptop from the IT guys (WTISS (Air Force)) and keep it for the duration of the program you are taking. Many say 10 - 30 days but I just told them what I was using it for and have had it for over a year now. I've shared this information and two other people have received them as well. Saves some of you from going out and buying a new laptop or computer for online courses.


----------



## TCM621 (30 Aug 2018)

Question for the brain trust re education reimbursment.

CBI 210.80 states:


> 210.80 - Tuition Fees, Books and Instruments - Officers and Non-Commissioned Members of the Regular Force at Canadian Military Colleges, Universities, Academic Institutes or Courses not within the Canadian Forces
> 
> 210.80(1) (Application) This instruction applies to an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force who is in receipt of pay and allowances, or who is in receipt of an allowance under CBI 205.461 (Maternity and Parental Allowances), and who is enrolled in an authorized full-time or part-time course subsidized by the Canadian Forces, but it does not apply to a member who is authorized to accept a scholarship.
> 
> ...



If I read this right, approval of an ILP is merely an administrative process. As long as the paper work is correct, and you check all the correct boxes, it will be approved.


----------



## mariomike (30 Aug 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> If I read this right, approval of an ILP is merely an administrative process.



Regarding ILP,

All things Individual Learning Plan/ILP (merged) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/27773.25


----------



## Blackadder1916 (30 Aug 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> Question for the brain trust re education reimbursment.
> 
> CBI 210.80 states:
> If I read this right, approval of an ILP is merely an administrative process. As long as the paper work is correct, and you check all the correct boxes, it will be approved.



If you are referring to "education reimbursement" then CBI 210.80 is not the reference you should be looking at. 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-paid-education/education-reimbursement.page


> Education Reimbursement
> 
> The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) recognizes that education is the best investment an organization can make toward the development of its members. Military personnel who upgrade their education not only can keep up with the latest technologies but enhance their critical thinking skills and develop innovative responses to a myriad of issues.
> 
> ...


----------



## TCM621 (30 Aug 2018)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> If you are referring to "education reimbursement" then CBI 210.80 is not the reference you should be looking at.
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-paid-education/education-reimbursement.page



From CF Mil Per inst 17/04 ( Old Adm HR Mill inst):



> Approval Authority
> This Instruction is issued by ADM (HR-Mil) under the financial authority provided in CBI 210.80.




They both are relevant.


----------



## TheSnake (26 Oct 2018)

Is it true that if the course, is less than a year (half a year). It will not count, towards the education plan?


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## kev994 (27 Oct 2018)

Sounds like a question for your BPSO. I have used it to write some piloting exams, took me a couple hours. The rules are constantly changing so ymmv.


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## Mediman14 (26 Nov 2018)

My apologies if this is the wrong board. I am 6 months away from 3b release. I am applying to do some courses and get approved thru ILP(s). However, one of the courses ends three weeks after my release. I mention this to my CoC who said for me to get SISIP to pay for that and have ILP for the other. I have never heard of having both at the same time, is this even a thing?
The other suggestion was to scrap the ILP, just do the SISIP way!

Any thoughts on which way to proceed?

 :subbies:


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## kratz (27 Nov 2018)

Mediman14,

As with anything, being concise when referring to programs, benefits and who offers them is important t o avoid confusion.

*- ILP path:* 
     Pros-you can attend any jammy TD or taskings that you look forward to. 
          - Leaves upcoming SISIP Rehab training available for a different option.
     Cons - Paying up for the course(s) up front and 
            - Must continue working normal CAF hours, duties ect…

*- VRPSM, 6 months pre-release (Vocational Rehabilitation Program for Serving Members): *
      Pros- SISIP pays the school directly for your course(s)
            -still subject to NDA, leave policy ect...but no uniforms, duties. Mostly spend time in classes or release process
       Cons-SISIP Vocational Rehab is tied into VRPSM. 
             -Ask yourself, Is it worth burning 2 years SISIP Voc Rehab to pay for 3 weeks?

After your release medical you have access to:

- SISIP Vocational Rehabilitation, 2 years maximum, limited by your MELs, and 
- VAC Vocational Rehabilitation, case by case depending assessed by your CM

If you've served more than 6 or 12 years, you also have access to:
- VAC Education Training Benefit: 6yrs service=$40,000 and 12+yrs service=$80,000 max.
 -ETB is not limited by MELs. Can be used for accredited University, College or training programs.
        - Option to use little known ETB benefit for "self-interest" courses, $5000 max, *instead of* the $40,000 / $80,000. 

I hope this helps.


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## Mediman14 (28 Nov 2018)

Kratz,
   Yes, the info you provided is helpful. Thanks. ILP would be the best route. 
As I mention prior, the issue I have encountered is that one of courses is a high school upgrade that is required for acceptance into the program I would like to enrol in. This course unfortunately finishes two - three weeks after my release. Therefore, ILP will not reimburse me for this course. What is the likeliness of getting a delay of release date request approved?


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## mariomike (28 Nov 2018)

Mediman14 said:
			
		

> What is the likeliness of getting a delay of release date request approved?



For reference to the discussion, see also,

Delay of Release Date  



			
				Mediman14 said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 094/10 indicates that a Mbrs Release date can be delayed to allow completion of Education Upgrading thru ILP. In my case, wanting to complete high school Chemistry - starts 7 Jan 2019 - ends in May. Release date is April.
> 
> Has anyone ever asked for a delay in Release Date, something similar as above?  If so, is there very many hoops to jump thru?



Medical Release ( merged ) 



			
				Mediman14 said:
			
		

> Can a medical release date be changed by a month or two if requested?



Delay of Release Date  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/101344.0
Mediman14 : "I am just wondering if anyone had ever heard of anyone getting a 3b medical release from the RegF asking for a change of release date, a delay of say 90 days? 
If so what would be the procedure to do so, and who would the memo be address to?"


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## CountDC (29 Nov 2018)

If you are on a medical release then you should have a disclosure package and release message with some directions in it.  Release dates can be changed by the release authority (DCBA??) on the message.  It does require the mbr submitting the request with all the required info - ie date and reasons.  If it is good they will issue another message amending the release date to accommodate you.


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## RocketScientist (29 Nov 2018)

Hello folks, I seem to have cleared everything for my Primary Reserves Direct Entry Officer application (CFAT, PT, Medical, Interview, and Officer Review Board) and am awaiting my final clearances and offer for enrollment. In the mean time, I'm still working on the back-end to get the Human Resources of my employer to give me the green light for time-off without pay.

One of the issues I still haven't resolved is money. During mandatory training (BMQ, BMOQ-Army, Trades), I will be paid as an OCdt, which is significantly lower than what I make compared in the civilian world. Because I support my family, I will be taking a significant financial hit. In order to minimize that hit, I'm wondering if I can use the education fund to offset some of the cost. Namely:

Instead of enrolling in school or taking a course, I use the allotted education amount for part time reservists ($2000 annually, $8000 maximum overall), and use that towards paying my rent and whatnot during mandatory training periods. Has anyone done this, or know if this is possible? In a way, it is still being used to offset training cost, so it's not unethical.


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## Blackadder1916 (29 Nov 2018)

ACE_Engineer said:
			
		

> . . .  In order to minimize that hit, I'm wondering if I can use the education fund to offset some of the cost. Namely:
> 
> Instead of enrolling in school or taking a course, I use the allotted education amount for part time reservists ($2000 annually, $8000 maximum overall), and use that towards paying my rent and whatnot during mandatory training periods. Has anyone done this, or know if this is possible? In a way, it is still being used to offset training cost, so it's not unethical.



Read this and see if you want to ask the question again.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-210-misc-entitlements-grants.page#sec-801


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## RocketScientist (29 Nov 2018)

I understand that the regulation is pretty clear: an approved university or college course only. I'm just trying to find possible ways I can afford to take the required time off. If you have any advice in this regard, I would appreciate it.


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## mariomike (29 Nov 2018)

ACE_Engineer said:
			
		

> I'm just trying to find possible ways I can afford to take the required time off.



You can ask your employer if they have a paid Military Leave policy. It should be in your Collective Agreement ( if you have one ).

My employer kept us on Leave With Pay for two weeks every calendar year for military training,

"Employees can take a leave of absence with pay, for the two week period of absence, to attend the Canadian Armed Forces Reserve Training Program.

The maximum period of absence is two weeks in a calendar year.

Employees are paid their regular pay provided they submit any compensation received for military service to the city treasurer, unless this compensation is paid for days they are not scheduled to work.

Compensation received for travelling expenses and meal allowance does not have to be returned to the city.

All benefits continue during the leave.

An employee's service is not affected by the leave. An employee's vacation entitlement, and pension credit do not change."

That was only two weeks per year. But, they paid off each and every year you served in the Reserve. So, it added up over the years.

Once you start earning with the PRes, that will help compensate toward the financial loss you took with your full-time job to get your PRes career started.


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## TCM621 (29 Nov 2018)

ACE_Engineer said:
			
		

> Hello folks, I seem to have cleared everything for my Primary Reserves Direct Entry Officer application (CFAT, PT, Medical, Interview, and Officer Review Board) and am awaiting my final clearances and offer for enrollment. In the mean time, I'm still working on the back-end to get the Human Resources of my employer to give me the green light for time-off without pay.
> 
> One of the issues I still haven't resolved is money. During mandatory training (BMQ, BMOQ-Army, Trades), I will be paid as an OCdt, which is significantly lower than what I make compared in the civilian world. Because I support my family, I will be taking a significant financial hit. In order to minimize that hit, I'm wondering if I can use the education fund to offset some of the cost. Namely:
> 
> Instead of enrolling in school or taking a course, I use the allotted education amount for part time reservists ($2000 annually, $8000 maximum overall), and use that towards paying my rent and whatnot during mandatory training periods. Has anyone done this, or know if this is possible? In a way, it is still being used to offset training cost, so it's not unethical.



It would be fraud and very much unethical. A lot of reservists take a hit to attend training, its pretty normal. My understanding is that after completing BMOQ, if you have a degree, you would be promoted to 2nd lieutenant which pays better. The best thing you can do is plan ahead and put money aside.


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## blacktriangle (29 Nov 2018)

They don't just hand you the money. You need an approved ILP, need to be have your application for reimbursement signed off by a designated officer, and you have to provide proof of payment for schooling etc. So in other words, good luck with that.


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## sidemount (29 Nov 2018)

And proof of passing the courses the ILP has been submitted for. If you fail the course, you are not reimbursed.
So no, you do not just get that money to use where ever you want.


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## RocketScientist (1 Dec 2018)

I understand, my assumption was that perhaps military training courses could qualify as "education and training" in certain circumstances. Clearly not.

I'm already talking to my employer to see how I can minimize the financial impact by working extra hours per week during the year. Are you guys aware of any other grants/bursaries/awards or anything available to Part time Reserves related to mandatory training?


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## Mediman14 (10 Dec 2018)

Is it possible to use ILP(for an course upgrade) and SISIP (for a educational program) at the same time for 2 different things? 

Thanks in advance


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## RocketScientist (4 Feb 2020)

Hello,

Reading up on the Reserve Education Reimbursement, I had a question.

Now, the policy is pretty clear:
*Primary Reserve members may be reimbursed for studying at a Canadian university or college to get a degree or diploma. The education reimbursement is up to 50% of your expenses with a maximum of $2,000 per academic year. The maximum benefit is $8,000 per career.*

Has anyone has any luck getting reimbursed for accredited programs outside Canada but still within the Commonwealth? Specifically, I am considering applying to an MBA program in the UK, and wondering if there are exceptions for the UK.

I only ask because, for the purposes of Provincial and Federal Student Loans, UK universities are covered just like Canadian institutions (i.e., there is a precedence of equivalency)


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## winds_13 (4 Feb 2020)

ACE_Engineer said:
			
		

> I understand, my assumption was that perhaps military training courses could qualify as "education and training" in certain circumstances. Clearly not.
> 
> I'm already talking to my employer to see how I can minimize the financial impact by working extra hours per week during the year. Are you guys aware of any other grants/bursaries/awards or anything available to Part time Reserves related to mandatory training?



ACE_Engineer, you will be paid for mandatory military training as a reservist, at the rate for your rank. It is paid job training (employment), not academic upgrading.


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