# "Shooting down avalanches all in a day’s work for Edmonton reservist"



## desert_rat (10 Jan 2011)

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Shooting+down+avalanches+work+Edmonton+reservist/4083560/story.html?cid=dlvr.it-twitter-edmontonjournal


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## Haggis (10 Jan 2011)

Nice little story.

Clearly they didn't get the definition of a "bombardier" by asking the good Bombardier herself.

 :


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## Oldgateboatdriver (10 Jan 2011)

Glad to see old habits die hard: They're using camoufelaged guns for avalanche control. I guess they don't want Mother Nature to see them coming  .


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## Nfld Sapper (10 Jan 2011)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Glad to see old habits die hard: They're using camoufelaged guns for avalanche control. I guess they don't want Mother Nature to see them coming  .



Actually I think they are covered in snow and crap from the road move up there.... if you take a closer look you can still see green on the gun....


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## Oldgateboatdriver (10 Jan 2011)

My bad !


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## gun runner (10 Jan 2011)

Thanks NFLD, you are correct. I didn't see any cam nets set up. The guns are the colours of the Artillery, we don't paint them to fit into the territory. Would you change the colours of your Regimental flags to fit into your surroundings? Ubique


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## Edward Campbell (10 Jan 2011)

gun runner said:
			
		

> Thanks NFLD, you are correct. I didn't see any cam nets set up. The guns are the colours of the Artillery, we don't paint them to fit into the territory. Would you change the colours of your Regimental flags to fit into your surroundings? Ubique




Oh?






Source: http://www.artillery.net/new/hergunpetm109.html


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## Petard (10 Jan 2011)

In the photo it looks like they left the hydraulic jack down(visible just under the recoiling breech), tsk-tsk!


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## aesop081 (10 Jan 2011)

gun runner said:
			
		

> The guns are the colours of the Artillery, we don't paint them to fit into the territory.



Oh i have seen them painted for winter before.


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## Edward Campbell (10 Jan 2011)

Petard said:
			
		

> In the photo it looks like they left the hydraulic jack down(visible just under the recoiling breech), tsk-tsk!




Well, Gunners; what can one say? But it's a nice cam-paint job, isn't it?  >


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## Petard (10 Jan 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Well, Gunners; what can one say? But it's a nice cam-paint job, isn't it?  >



um, I'm referring to the Avcon C1, covered in snow and mud, not the sentinel M109A4.


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## Edward Campbell (10 Jan 2011)

Petard said:
			
		

> um, I'm referring to the Avcon C1, covered in snow and mud, not the sentinel M109A4.





I kinda guessed that - even though my old eyes cannot see it - 'cause the M109's breech ain't doin' nuthin;' but I'm still yanking gun runner's chain over the "we don't paint our colours" comment.  >


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## Petard (11 Jan 2011)

Fair enough, game on Sir. ;D



Nice to see a positive article about gunners on domestic ops


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Jan 2011)

gun runner said:
			
		

> Thanks NFLD, you are correct. I didn't see any cam nets set up. The guns are the colours of the Artillery, we don't paint them to fit into the territory.  Would you change the colours of your Regimental flags to fit into your surroundings? Ubique



Yup. This is gonna hurt >


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## Old Sweat (11 Jan 2011)

Petard said:
			
		

> In the photo it looks like they left the hydraulic jack down(visible just under the recoiling breech), tsk-tsk!



Petard, am I correct in thinking that the avalanche control guns were fitted with a jack to aid in quickly switching from target to target? (I believe all the avalanche control targets are recorded and gun data exists for each target that can be engaged from each firing point.)

And as for camming the guns, even in the bad old days before we started doing that in 1967, we used to smear mud all over the tacs signs that identified nationality, formation, unit/subunit and individual element in the field. Mind you, after driving on a wet road the stuff tossed up by the tires of the gun tractors pretty well covered up the paint job anyway. 

I am not going to comment on the reporter's explanation of bombardier, other than to note the wartime RCAF term was bomb aimer. *Irony machine off.


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## Petard (11 Jan 2011)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Petard, am I correct in thinking that the avalanche control guns were fitted with a jack to aid in quickly switching from target to target? (I believe all the avalanche control targets are recorded and gun data exists for each target that can be engaged from each firing point.)



That's pretty much the purpose, the jack is supposed to be swung back up and locked when firing. The trouble is the piston will sometimes bind inside the cylinder and get stuck in the open position. The det will usually try to pry it up with a shovel, but this doesn't always work, and time is a factor (they're basically doing quick actions alongside the highway to minimize the amount of time the highway is closed), and so understandibly they will sometimes fire with the jack still down to try and help jar it loose. Other times its because someone forgot.

The C1's will be replaced over the next 2 years by C3's, and the AVCON C3's will have a better hydraulic system fitted to them by this summer. One that is a two way system to help pull the piston back in, It'll also have a pressure release valve that will flow back into a reservoir, for those times when someone quite simply forgets to do their drill and stow the jack properly.


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## gun runner (12 Jan 2011)

Ok, smart mouths, I get the point. What I meant, if I am aloud to clarify, is that the condition the guns are delivered to the battery is how we use them. We do not repaint to fit the environment. The guns remain cammed in green. Not painted white, unless there is a need to do so. The entire time I was a gunner, we shot the guns in all environs( except the sand box). Now that I am done..bring on the pain, and don't hold back. I have big shoulders! Ubique

P.S. By the way..Journeyman, I was a gunner way before I ever thought of the CIC.


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## Fishbone Jones (13 Jan 2011)

gun runner said:
			
		

> Ok, smart mouths, I get the point. What I meant, if I am aloud to clarify, is that the condition the guns are delivered to the battery is how we use them. We do not repaint to fit the environment. The guns remain cammed in green. Not painted white, unless there is a need to do so. The entire time I was a gunner, we shot the guns in all environs( except the sand box). Now that I am done..bring on the pain, and don't hold back. I have big shoulders! Ubique
> 
> P.S. By the way..Journeyman, I was a gunner way before I ever thought of the CIC.



 ;D


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## Journeyman (13 Jan 2011)

gun runner said:
			
		

> We do not repaint to fit the environment.
> 
> Not painted white, *unless there is a need to do so*.


You don't even pretend to read what you post, do you?


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## chrisf (13 Jan 2011)

Here's a what somthing that's either a silly or sensitive question, but I'm curious...

How would duds be dealt with in avalance control? Or is that an issue?


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## Rifleman62 (13 Jan 2011)

Good question. I always wondered what the answer was.


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## gun runner (16 Jan 2011)

Would you go 10k feet up a mountain to check a dud?


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## NSDreamer (16 Jan 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> You don't even pretend to read what you post, do you?



 I'm pretty sure he means they don't paint them for training etc... and that the only time they paint them is on live ops as it were where an enemy is actually looking to take out any gun dets.


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## Petard (22 Jan 2011)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Here's a what somthing that's either a silly or sensitive question, but I'm curious...
> 
> How would duds be dealt with in avalance control? Or is that an issue?



Duds do occur, but are rare. They use an older but very reliable point detonating fuse to do the job, the M557.
While the targets are generally very near the peaks of the mountains, that doesn't mean any duds would necessarily remain up there. Duds have been known to show up from time to time below the treeline too, getting brought down with the spring thaw or an avalanche itself.  Even so, the Park does have very good control measures to steer people away from potential danger areas.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/bc/glacier/visit/visit19.aspx

Those hiking/skiing in the area are warned about this at the information centre, and the instruction is quite simple, leave it alone and report it to the nearest Park office. Amongst the visual aids in the Parks Canada office in Rogers pass there's even a picture of an old 4.2" mortar round! 

Duds are normally dealt with in situ by a DND EOD team.
While parks Canada actually owns the ammunition, they are supported by DND ammo techs.


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