# Two ITA Troops Nabbed, Then Rescued  in Herat



## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2007)

BBC Online: "Italian authorities say they believe that two missing soldiers serving in western Afghanistan have been abducted.  "We believe they have been kidnapped together with two Afghans," the defence ministry said in a statement, adding that the situation remained unclear.  Contact was lost after the men crossed a police checkpoint in Herat province.  The two Italian soldiers were believed to be in the company of their Afghan driver and translator, according to Afghan officials.  The four had driven through a police checkpoint in the Shindand district of Herat province on Saturday before all contacts were lost, said Gen Ali Khan Hassanzada, chief of police criminal investigations in western Afghanistan ...."

L'Unita newspaper(translated):  "Two Italians missing in Afghanistan; Following the kidnap trail -- The tracks of two missing Italians in Afghanistan have been lost; they may be being held in the district of Shindand, in the province of Herat near the Iranian border.  "It is premature to hypothesize", warned Foreign Minister Massimo D'alema, without using the word "kidnapping".  "The government is following events minute by minute", D'Alema said.  "For now - according to the head of Italian diplomats - we are facing two Italian officials who are missing and I believe this is all we should say, instead of opening up lines of discussion that I think are premature". "

More in accounts by Reuters, Associated Press, Agence France Presse, and Al Jazeera.

_- edited to change subject line to reflect rescue - _


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## tomahawk6 (23 Sep 2007)

The Italians have been down this road before. They are getting their checkbook ready as we speak.


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

Didn't they buy the freedom of two female journalists last time (unsure if journalists, pretty sure they were womenfolk -- too lazy to look it up)??

Shall be interesting to watch this one unfold, being that they are men ... and troops.

There's a reason one should never barter with their enemy. It'll come back to bite you right in the ass.


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## GAP (23 Sep 2007)

It was a male journalist and Karzai released prisoners for his release.....which started all this BS


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> It was a male journalist and Karzai released prisoners for his release.....which started all this BS



So which country was it that bartered for their two women?? 

I'll go googling ... 'cause someone did.


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

Yep,

Two Italian women:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/047780.php

28 Sept 2004 / Iraq


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## vonGarvin (23 Sep 2007)

From the World This Weekend (CBC Sunday Evening News on the radio), Italy has confirmed that two of its soldiers are missing, presumed kidnapped.  
Here's hoping they get them back alive, AND without some promise to leave Afghanistan.


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## GAP (23 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Yep,
> 
> Two Italian women:
> 
> ...



Agreed, but the male Italian jounalist is the one Karzai traded for, and that was fairly recent.

edited to add: 
March 2007 - The Taliban captured Italian journalist Daniele Mastrogiacomo of La Repubblica and two Afghans in Helmand province. He is handed over to the Italian embassy on March 19. His Afghan driver was beheaded and his translator remains hostage.
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/59616.0.html


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> Agreed, but the male Italian jounalist is the one Karzai traded for, and that was fairly recent.



True,

I'm just interested in the fallout within Italy that this will cause.

Imagine, now, if they _do not _ barter for these two after doing so for women.

I see:

1) Oh so a woman's life is worth more than a mans.
2) Oh a civilians life is worth more than a soldiers.

Italian politics is dysfunctional at the best of times.

And if they _do_ barter away for them ... holy crap. They may as well pack up all the Italian troops both in Iraq and Afghanistan and beat a Hasty retreat home ... talk about placing your troops at even higher head-hunting risk for their monetary worth because your government is a confirmed barterer ...

Rock -- Hard Place

Look what they've got themselves into now.


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## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2007)

Are you maybe thinking about these two, perhaps, in IRQ?  

If so, it sounds like an even WORSE deal was cut there:  " Italian Red Cross workers smuggled four wounded Iraqi insurgents through US roadblocks as part of a deal to free two aid workers kidnapped in Baghdad, it emerged on Thursday.  Maurizio Scelli, outgoing head of the Italian Red Cross, said they hid "four alleged terrorists" under blankets and boxes of medicines in a jeep and an ambulance so they could be treated for injuries sustained in combat. Three of the four had surgery.  Scelli's revelation about the release of the aid workers Simona Pari and Simona Torretta sparked an embarrassing political row for the prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, who has always denied bowing to ransom demands in Iraq.  The senior Red Cross official said the Italian government had no direct involvement in the plan but had been told about it. The deal included an undertaking to treat ill Iraqi children and was kept secret from US officials, he said."

You're right, AV -- damned if you do, damned if you don't....

The ITA opposition is already screaming to get the troops outta AFG (sound familiar?).


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Are you maybe thinking about these two, perhaps, in IRQ?
> 
> You're right, AV -- damned if you do, damned if you don't....
> 
> The ITA opposition is already screaming to get the troops outta AFG (sound familiar?).



Yep, that's the two. I linked it down here as well.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66474/post-618748.html#msg618748


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## GAP (23 Sep 2007)

I hadn't heard about the Iraqi incident.....doesn't matter, I wouldn't want to have them watching my back door!!


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## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2007)

Not to mention the "impartiality" of the Red Cross, eh?


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## GAP (23 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Not to mention the "impartiality" of the Red Cross, eh?



That's more disturbing than knowing the Italian government will be true to form....I just lost a lot of respect for the Red Cross.


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

_Italian_ Red Cross workers ...

Oy.


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## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> _Italian_ Red Cross workers ...
> 
> Oy.



Gotta wonder, though, whether something of that scale would be done without ANYONE at head office knowing?  Unless they did it and told Geneva AFTER it happened...


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## GAP (23 Sep 2007)

Yeah, but the damage to the Red Cross's reputation has repercussions around the world.


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Gotta wonder, though, whether something of that scale would be done without ANYONE at head office knowing?  Unless they did it and told Geneva AFTER it happened...



Don't know, but it was the Italian Red Cross who pulled it off. Seeing as how they state that their government knew (but didn't participate), I'll assume that the Italian Red Cross' Head Office in Italy knew. Whether they sent it further up the chain ... I doubt it -- at least until after the hostages release.

I have zero issues with the Red Cross workers treating injured Taliban or insurgents; our own medics would (and do) do exactly the same thing. Smuggling them through checkpoints/not turning them over to appropriate authorities is a whole different ballgame altoghether though.


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## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Don't know, but it was the Italian Red Cross who pulled it off. Seeing as how they state that their government knew (but didn't participate), I'll assume that the Italian Red Cross' Head Office in Italy knew. Whether they sent it further up the chain ... I doubt it -- at least until after the hostages release.



Good point -- I was thinking of their "Geneva bosses" more than the "Rome bosses"....



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I have zero issues with the Red Cross workers treating injured Taliban or insurgents; our own medics would (and do) do exactly the same thing. Smuggling them through checkpoints/not turning them over to appropriate authorities is a whole different ballgame altoghether though.



+10


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2007)

Well, THAT didn't take long....

BBC Online:  "Two Italian soldiers who were kidnapped in western Afghanistan have been released during a military operation, the Italian defence ministry says.  It said both men were injured and one of them was reported to be in a serious condition. They were being treated at a Nato hospital, a spokesman said.  The two were seized while travelling in the western province of Herat.  An Afghan driver and interpreter who were with the soldiers had returned to Herat on Sunday.  An Italian embassy source in Kabul told the BBC, "The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) launched an operation in the early hours of the morning to rescue the two soldiers who had been kidnapped on Saturday ...."

Reuters:  "Two Italian soldiers kidnapped in western Afghanistan two days ago were freed in a raid by NATO-led forces early on Monday, Italy's Defence Ministry said.  The soldiers were wounded during the raid to free them and they were taken to a hospital, the ministry said. One of them was in serious condition with gunshot wounds in the head and the chest, Italian media reported.  "In a raid by ISAF forces in the early hours of the morning the two soldiers who had been kidnapped last Saturday have been freed in the province of Farah," the ministry said in a statement, referring to the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF).  Defence Minister Antonio Parisi told state television Italian and British soldiers had taken part in the raid.  Sergio De Gregorio, chairman of the defence committee in Italy's Senate, said at least seven of the suspected kidnappers were killed in the raid.  An Italian diplomat in Kabul said it was not clear who the abductors were. The police chief for Farah province, Abdul Rahman Sarjang, said he suspected the kidnappers were members of a criminal gang ....."

Agence France Presse:  A NATO raid on Monday that freed two Italian soldiers kidnapped in Afghanistan killed five of the abductors, an Italian defence official said.  The operation resulted in "five deaths" among the kidnappers, undersecretary of state for defence Giovanni Lorenzo Forcieri told Sky TG 24 television.  The Italian defence ministry had earlier announced that both the kidnapped soldiers were hurt in the operation, with one seriously injured.  Forcieri stressed that the kidnappers were "very dangerous" and that there had been fears that the abducted Italians might have been "sold on" to another group.  Italian soliders led the NATO raid to free them, supported by British troops, Italian Defence Minister Arturo Parisi said on Rai public television.  Asked who was responsible for the kidnapping, the minister said it looked to involve "an independent group", though the information was still being verified ...."


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## vonGarvin (24 Sep 2007)

Awesome, and well done to NATO!


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## GAP (24 Sep 2007)

> The two were seized while travelling in the western province of Herat.  An Afghan driver and interpreter who were with the soldiers had returned to Herat on Sunday.



Kinda sounds like the two Italians were delivered, and the delivery boys came home afterward......


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## armyvern (24 Sep 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> Kinda sounds like the two Italians were delivered, and the delivery boys came home afterward......



My immediate thoughts as well. One never knows with those idependant groups however. 

Speedy recovery to the soldiers in recovering from their injuries, and kudos to those who got them out.


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## tomahawk6 (24 Sep 2007)

Both soldiers are wounded one seriously. Prayers for a speedy recovery.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/09/ap_italiankidnap_070924/

2 kidnapped Italians freed in Afghanistan
By Alisa Tang - The Associated Press
Posted : Monday Sep 24, 2007 6:09:38 EDT

KABUL, Afghanistan — A NATO-led combat operation secured the release of two kidnapped Italian military personnel Monday in western Afghanistan, two days after they went missing, officials said. Initial reports indicated at least five of the kidnappers were killed.

Both Italians were wounded during the operation, one seriously. The two were being treated in a hospital run by NATO’s International Security Assistance Force.

“They were freed in an ISAF operation. They were both injured. One is in a more difficult situation than the other,” an Italian Embassy official said on condition of anonymity because of embassy policy. “They are free now. They are at a military hospital in the western region.”

An Afghan translator and driver who were with the Italians were “found,” the official said, adding that he did not know what condition they were in.

NATO troops located the two Italians and attacked the group of kidnappers. Preliminary reports found that five of the kidnappers were killed, though the toll may be higher, the official said.

The two Italians, their driver and translator had been missing since Saturday when they were last seen at a police checkpoint in the Shindand district of Helmand province, Afghan police said.

The Italians’ last contact with their base was Saturday night, the embassy official said.

Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi said Monday that the Taliban had not kidnapped the Italians. The embassy official said it wasn’t clear which insurgent group had kidnapped the Italians.

In March, five Taliban prisoners were freed in exchange for the release of a kidnapped Italian journalist. The head of the Italian aid agency Emergency has said the Rome government also paid a $2 million ransom last year for a kidnapped Italian photographer, a claim Italian officials did not deny.


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## time expired (24 Sep 2007)

Italian soldiers led this rescue operation!, mind if I am a
little sceptical,supported by British troops.Supported from
behind or in front?.
                      Regards


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2007)

time expired said:
			
		

> Italian soldiers led this rescue operation!, mind if I am a
> little sceptical,supported by British troops.Supported from
> behind or in front?.



To be fair, even with all the "look at those Italian tanks - each with five reverse gears and one forward gear in case the enemy gets behind them" jokes, the Italians are not entirely without capacity in AFG, at least according to Wikipedia:  "Italian Special Forces ( Col Moschin, Comsubin), equivalent of the British SAS, work from Herat and Kabul. They are primarily tasked to protect conventional troops, but also work closely with Italian HUMINT teams."


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2007)

And here's ISAF's "official" version, including how the troopies got injured, as well as some Brit media accounts (interesting how two accounts had input from the same writer, and we still get three different accounts), shared with the usual disclaimers....



> *Kidnapped Italian soldiers rescued*
> ISAF news release PR# 2007-653, 24 Sept 07
> Article link
> 
> Kabul, Afghanistan – Two Italian soldiers were rescued this morning in Farah province following an Italian-led ISAF mission to free them. They were kidnapped Sept. 22.  “This successful operation is evidence of ISAF’s resolve to deal with acts of terrorism in Afghanistan,” said Maj. Charles Anthony, ISAF spokesman.  Earlier today, the Italian-led force intercepted the hostages and their kidnappers (It is unclear if there eight or nine kidnappers).  _*In the ensuing fire fight the two Italian hostages were wounded, one of them seriously.*_ One Afghan citizen was also wounded. It is unknown what happened to the second Afghan national who was with the kidnapped victims. All the kidnappers were killed.  The freed hostages are receiving treatment at an ISAF medical facility.






> *Kidnapped Italians sprung by UK elite forces*
> SAYED SALAHUDDIN IN KABUL AND NICK PISA, The Scotsman, 25 Sept 07
> Article link
> 
> TWO Italian soldiers kidnapped in Afghanistan were freed on Monday during a raid by British special forces-led troops.  The Italians were wounded during the raid to free them in south-western Farah province and were taken to hospital, the Italian defence ministry said.  One was seriously injured, with gunshot wounds to the head and chest.  Both men went missing two days ago in neighbouring Herat province.  An Italian military source in Rome said: "This was a complex operation, with the British troops leading the way.  The hostages were located with the help of Italian intelligence sources and the building in which they were held was under surveillance for 12 hours before the attack was launched," the source said.  It is likely that the British special forces were from the elite SBS unit ....





> *Elite UK troops rescue Italians in Afghanistan*
> Richard Norton-Taylor, The Guardian (UK), 25 Sept 07
> Article link
> 
> Helicopter-borne British special forces yesterday rescued two Italian soldiers, killing their captors in a fierce gunfight in south-west Afghanistan, defence sources said.  Troops from the Special Boat Service, the navy's equivalent of the SAS, were called in by Nato commanders after intelligence reports that the Italians were about to be moved from a building east of the town of Farah. The SBS troopers were taken to the area by helicopter, and as Italian commandos stormed the building, the SBS attacked the two trucks in which the captors were about to drive the Italians away.  "The SBS was very much in the forefront of the mission. Most of the firefight was with our guys," a defence source said. "They are very chuffed," he added ....  Brigadier General Vincent Lafontaine, a French officer with Nato staff in Afghanistan, said intelligence reports soon revealed where they were being held.  "There is a sort of window of opportunity if you achieve reliable intelligence," he said. "It's a success story because it was very quickly solved."  All eight of those who snatched the Italians were killed, Nato officials said. Both of the Italian soldiers were injured, one seriously. Italian media reported he had gunshot wounds to the head and chest. British sources said he had been injured before the firefight and bore the marks of having been tortured or severely beaten up ....





> *British special forces kill nine kidnappers in Italian hostage rescue mission*
> NICK PISA, Daily Mail (UK), 24 Sept 07
> Article link
> 
> Elite British commandos killed at least nine kidnappers in a dawn raid to rescue hostages held in Afghanistan.  Crack troops from the Special Boat Service led the mission to save two Italian intelligence officers from a hide-out where they had been held by tribesmen for 36 hours.  As they came under fire, the captors tried to execute their hostages, leaving one with serious head and chest injuries.  No British servicemen were injured in the joint operation with Italian special forces yesterday.  Praising the operation, Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi said: "It was a heavy defeat for the kidnappers and should serve as a warning."  Italian officials said the men were gagged and chained and had been beaten during their ordeal.  They had been captured in Herat province and negotiations had been under way to hand them to the Taliban.  News reports in Italy said that the men were located in an isolated building near Shindand by Italian intelligence and watched for the night.  Two vehicles were being monitored and once it became apparent they were about to leave, the operation was launched.  Italian defence minister Arturo Parisi said that pilotless Predator aircraft and Mangusta attack helicopters were deployed.  Nine kidnappers were killed along with an Afghan aide who was with the captives, he added.  An Italian military source in Rome said: "This was a complex operation with the British leading the way.  They went in first and it was they who killed the hostage-takers".....



_- edited to add Brit media updates - _


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## The Bread Guy (4 Oct 2007)

The most seriously injured of the rescued SISMI troops didn't make it:


> Reuters:  An Italian intelligence agent who was kidnapped last month in Afghanistan and wounded during a NATO-led raid that freed him died on Thursday, the Defense Ministry said.  (Chief Warrant Officer) Lorenzo D'Auria, 33, was one of two Italian agents briefly abducted by captors who NATO identified as Taliban.  The two were freed by Italian and British special forces. But D'Auria suffered gunshots in his head and neck and had to be put on a respirator soon after his release.  The other Italian was also wounded in the raid, although not seriously. Both were flown back to Italy for hospital treatment ....


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