# REPORT:  Hercs Have 3 Years Left In 'Em?



## The Bread Guy (25 Nov 2005)

http://tinyurl.com/avwsw

"(Defence Industry Daily) has covered the growing realization in the US military that its aging aircraft fleet will begin posing serious challenges in the coming years. In a related vein, consider the problems that Canada is currently experiencing. Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier recently said that "Our [CC-130 E/H] Hercules fleet right now is rapidly going downhill. We know that three years and a little bit more than that, the fleet starts to become almost completely inoperational and we will have to stop supporting operations - or else, not be able to start them." ..."

Hillier quote:  "When I was with our Team Canada a while ago, we experienced that and you get into one aircraft, it won't start. You get into a second aircraft, it won't go and you get into a third aircraft, and finally execute the mission. So that is the kind of stage that we find ourselves with the C-130 E model particularly because of their age, because of their use and now because of the difficulty of keeping them flying and operational."

Will it all come in time, though, with an election looming?

Anyone, anyone?


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## Allen (25 Nov 2005)

Well, that might be true for the E models, but there are 9 H's built in the 80's & 90's, so I would guess those have more life left in them.

The election will not affect the RFP stage of the process, DND has gotten the go-ahead to proceed with this. But the gov't can't sign the contract until the election is done. However, with a January election, DND probably wouldn't be ready to select a winner before this anyway. 

I do see a danger, though, with potential competitors (e.g. Airbus) coming out of the woodwork widelaying the process with legal challenges, claiming the process unfairly excludes them.


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## Grizzly (25 Nov 2005)

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there are 13 -H model Hercs ( 11 C-130H's and 2 C-130H-30's ). However, after you factor in SAR and our other domestic obligations, even 13 C-130H's will be insufficient to meet all of our operational commitments, especially when you factor in the increased maintenance times that will result from the increased demands that will be placed on them. The FWSAR program would have taken considerable pressure of of the Hercules fleet, but lobbying and political meddling have delayed this program as well. In light of that, the purchase of a new tactical airlifter has become critical in order to support current and future operational commitments. I'm not sure if Airbus will be able to make a successful case in this competition, but the fact of the matter is that we need aircraft ASAP. The A400M is still under development and will be unlikely to be in production let alone be delivered by 2008-2009, especially if the other purchasing nations will get theirs delivered first. If Airbus wants the sale, they are going to have to bust their humps to make their aircraft fit our requirements and not try to force us to change our requirements to fit their aircraft. We just have to look at FWSAR and MHP to see how well that works.


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## Allen (25 Nov 2005)

> 'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there are 13 -H model Hercs ( 11 C-130H's and 2 C-130H-30's ).



True, but since FWSAR is supposed to replace the 10 E's used for SAR plus the Buffalo, the 13 planes replaced by this new project (as stated by the press release) must be the remaining 9 E's + the 4 oldest H's (from the mid-70's). This would leave 9 H's in service. Gen. Hillier alluded to this in the press conference:



> Gen Rick Hillier: Well, we have put one to bed because it is over 50,000 hours. We have got a whole lot more of those aircraft, all the E models that are in the 40,000 hours plus. When you stop and think about that, that is three to three and a half years of flying time in their life. I was in one in fact just recently. *So those aircraft are going down and we figure with the ones that we have, the C-130H models that we have, that are the more modern ones, nine of those with 16 new aircraft that give us the capabilities that we need for the fleet therefore of about 25.* We will have sufficient and that quantity is a quality all of its own to allow us to the two major international operations, support one major domestic operation, support routine force generation of the aircraft and air crews and do our normal business.


http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1819


So it looks like they plan to move from a fleet of 19E's, 13 H's and 6 Buffalos to one with 16 J's (probably), 9 H's & 15 FWSAR (possibly more to replace Twin Otter).


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