# Military experience transferable to civy?



## belka (15 Sep 2006)

Are any quals or experience you get in the military, mainly for the 500 series trades, transferable or credited toward the civy world/airline companies? I'd like to know how you can get your Transport Canada liscense, is it just a written course, or is there a program you have to take?

I'd like to keep my options open when my contract expires in 2029.  ;D


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## Centurian1985 (15 Sep 2006)

Keep in mind that you can transfer over a lot of the 'soft skills' you built up in the CF.  It helps if you keep track of leadership/management opportunities, the size of groups/types of projects you led, and the types of skills you built up.  For example, the following are key skills that most organizations are looking for in addition to your certificate:  

Level of education (preferably at least a diploma in something relevant or a degree in anything)
Language profiles
Sizes and/or worth of inventories you have managed
Proven record of success and achievement
Self-direction, innovation, and creativity
Team leader, team-builder, or team player
Cultural and Aboriginal awareness
Multi-tasking ability
Verbal, written, and interpersonal communication skills
Planning and time management ability
Analytical and problem-solving capabilities
Ability to successfully plan, coordinate, and execute complex tasks
List of topics on which you are an SME


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## riggermade (15 Sep 2006)

If you have a contract until 2029 I think you may be jumping the gun worrying about civilian qualifications... I would suggest you worry about what your job is in the military first


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## Scoobs (15 Sep 2006)

As a 500 series tech, you have very marketable skills that Aerospace companies are constantly looking for.  Canada has a rather large amount of these types of companies and you could easily find a job with them.  The correct term that you are referring to ("Transport Canada license") is an AME.  I believe it stands for Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.  The reality is that most companies only have a few of these pers employed as they command a rather high salary.  Most aircraft techs working for civy companies are not AME qualified.  
Word of advice, the grass is not always greener on the other side...  The mil is a good place to work, especially as an aircraft tech in the 500 series trade.


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## V (16 Sep 2006)

Recently, I have heard that leadership courses can be used as credits to a degree.  I believe its community leadership or something to that effect.  I have found that that work ethic and a the attitude towards working towards goals has been the greatest contribution.  Also, at least in the army those that have been in for a degree of time, I have found to be exceptionally competent.  I would also give a nod to the manner in which the military has taught courses, very well organized.  except I have to laugh when at the end of almost every lecture, there is the "does anyone have any questions, no , than I have some questions for you".  Honestly, University professors could take a page from the military lectures. 

Cheers

V


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## Centurian1985 (16 Sep 2006)

Yes, leadership and other courses can be used for credits, but not all universities and colleges will accept them towards BA's/BSc's.  It all depends on the PLAR process each educational insitution has in place.  Apparently Royal Roads in Victoria has the best PLAR process for recognizing 'non-academic' courses. However this information is only effective as of early 2005, and the CF was reportedly 'working on a solution' to this problem at that time (at least that was what the BPSO said...).  Perhaps someone has more recent information on whether that was successful.


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## beenthere (16 Sep 2006)

I used my military experience to get my AME and FE licence.  Also for L382 (Hercules) endorsement on my AME license.


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## V (16 Sep 2006)

I heard that UBC was accepting some leadership courses, but you are right.

 V


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## cp140tech (16 Sep 2006)

It depends on which of the 500 series trades you're talking about.  The best people to contact for the bottom line are at Transport Canada, they can give you the definite answers.  
   Generally speaking, it seems that the AVS and ACS techs are a little further ahead when it comes to time and training credited towards their AME license.  It may have changed, but I believe a few years ago AVS and ACS could write the Transport Canada exams for their AME without any requirement for further training outside of their trade QL5.  AVN was in a different boat, there were deficiencies identified in our training that could be rectified through a correspondence course.  Completion of the course would allow a QL5 tech to write the exam, and with a certain amount of on aircraft experience under the supervision of a qualified AME,  earn their own license.  I know of a few people who went this route, but it has been 3 or 4 years and things may have changed.
   There aren't many civvie pattern frames to get quals on in the Air Force, but the skills you pick up here are completely transferable of course.  Many techs work for IMP or other large maintenance organizations with nothing other than their experience from the military.  The AME license gives you some portability, lots more responsibility, and a higher earning potential.  
    You'll find the Air Force is a great place to work if fixing aircraft is what you're into.  The pay is good, fair opportunity for travel, lots of advanced training and the trades are wide open for career advancement.

    good luckj


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## belka (16 Sep 2006)

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm talking about the AVN trade and was wondering if anything from mil experience was transferable to the AME liscense, I think I got the answer I needed. 

I'm not going anywhere for awhile, not for the next 5 years at the least and I haven't even got my hands dirty, so to speak. Although it is nice to know I have options outside the military world, just incase there is no future plans to replace the hornets.


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## eurowing (17 Sep 2006)

If I was to join as a 500 series tech knowing what I know now, I would go ACS.  Simple reason, any AVN skills will likely require you live in a large centre like Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver to get the lovely jobs with Pratt and Whitney, SPAR etc.  An ACS tech will have marketable skills desired in ANY industry.  After 32 years I have zero interest in seeing another airplane when I retire.  Now, If I was an ACS Tech, any machine shop, textile shop, welding shop for any industry, be it fishing, agriculture or heavy equipment etc would be able to use my skills.  The best part is you would not have to live in a cesspool... I mean large city.

We are having a large problem keeping ACS techs for some of these very reasons.  Some former fitters and riggers re-mustered to ACS during the trade decimation... er I mean amalgamation.  

Regardless, as an AVN Tech you will pick up many skills and yes, you can go for an AME, I also know several folks who have done just that, picking up extra experience and quals at small regional airports as a part time apprentice.

Best of luck.


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## bison33 (21 Sep 2006)

OK....here's what you need to do to be an AME from as far as being AVN. When I was an AVN tech, I did the old ICS (not sure what the place is called now) correspondence thing for the usless piece of paper in aircraft mechanics....but with that, all I needed was to write the Transport Canada exams (M1 or M2..whatever you want) and complete 900 hrs of logged time with a civie outfit to be fully licensed. No need for the required 2 years college and 1800 hrs of time. Still a crappy deal for us though.....and someone said to worry about the next 23 years first before doing this....ignore him. Do it. It's for you. Not the military. The military won't care about you after your tx'd. 

Saying that....here's a link to the Transport Canada website
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/maintenance/aarpb/menu.htm

And depending where you are, go into the local Transport Canada office and talk to someone. Anyone in your Sqn have their AME license? Talk to them.


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## dapaterson (21 Sep 2006)

You can also contact your local Base or Wing Personnel Selection Officer; they have detailed information on equivalencies granted for military training - both in academic institutions and from trades associations.  

As has been stated, many courses may grant you academic credit.  You may be pleasantly surprised by how much academic credit your military training and experience can grant you.


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## belka (23 Sep 2006)

bison33 said:
			
		

> OK....here's what you need to do to be an AME from as far as being AVN. When I was an AVN tech, I did the old ICS (not sure what the place is called now) correspondence thing for the usless piece of paper in aircraft mechanics....but with that, all I needed was to write the Transport Canada exams (M1 or M2..whatever you want) and complete 900 hrs of logged time with a civie outfit to be fully licensed. No need for the required 2 years college and 1800 hrs of time. Still a crappy deal for us though.....and someone said to worry about the next 23 years first before doing this....ignore him. Do it. It's for you. Not the military. The military won't care about you after your tx'd.
> 
> Saying that....here's a link to the Transport Canada website
> http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/maintenance/aarpb/menu.htm
> ...



Exactly what I was looking for, thank you very much.  8)

Truthfully, my heart lies in Civy aircraft like the Airbus's and Boeing's, although the fighters are "cool", they don't appeal to me as much. I didn't know that our only civy aircraft, the Polaris, was contracted out, until 6 months into my AVN course.


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## RetiredRoyal (23 Sep 2006)

Transport Canada will now recognize skill, experience and training for your AME license. This evaluation is done IAW MSI 18 which describes tasks performed on military aircraft as being acceptable for up to 90% of the min logbook tasks provided the aircraft worked on have a civil equivalent. IE CC138, is a twin otter...civil, Dash 8, herc etc..no CF-18's...sorry.

TC will also accept your 514 or 525 for a specified number of months of training, identifies the gaps etc.

What is still required, after you fill the gaps in training, is to complete 6 months on civil registered aircraft, write the exams and complete teh missing 10% of yourlogbook.

I'm now a licensed AME and heavily involved in this process for applicants.


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## beenthere (25 Sep 2006)

I obtained my AME in the mid 90's with my military qualifications and experience. I had worked on civilian aircraft as part time employment since the 60's during my military career. However since there was no official records regarding my part time employment it was not of any use. 
At any rate my military qualifications and experience was accepted at that time. It has obviously changed since then.
My endorsement for the L-382 Hercules was "hand written" . About 100 pages of detail which described various systems and procedures for rigging flight controls and prop and engine control rigging. It was certainly different but as there was no approved course on the 382 it was the only way to get it.
That's probably all history now since things change.


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## FltEng (12 Oct 2006)

Here is another link worth looking at- http://pecfc.com/equivalences2/en/


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## acheo (7 Nov 2006)

Prior to join the military I worked in the aerospace industry. Approx 50% of the staff were ex-military personnel. I can tell you right away that most human ressources (HR) will recognize all RELEVANT experience. However 20 years in the CF does not equal to a 20 year experience. All this time in training and awaiting training will not be recognize. If you 're a tech and expect to work in the same field when you retire my best advice would be to focus on working as much as you can in this field.  In my company there were retired LCol working as section leaders and short term service Captains holding VP positions. Obviously their CF career didn't weight the same. 

Acheo


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## belka (22 Aug 2007)

A little more info on the subject:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/maintenance/aarpb/General/CMP.htm


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## Retired AF Guy (22 Aug 2007)

If you go to the CF Recruiting webpage you can look what your occupation and at the bottom there will be a list of  equivalent civilian occupations. 

This link should give you a pace to start:

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/home/home.aspx?bhcp=1

Also, you can visit your base/wing PSO and they have books that also list equivalent civilian occupations.


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