# UABs upon returning from afghanistan



## catalyst (19 Jun 2009)

So my UABs were submitted (for a lack of better word) on about the 4th of April.................and its June and I don't have them. I did leave in a RIP so was expecting them to take a while getting back. I gave my parents phone number, so I was hoping that maybe the message didnt get passed on to me............however I tried phoning the base CMTT (twice) but seem to have gotten disconnected, or else nobody picked upo the phone. 

I'm just wondering if there's an average time for them to be sent back to Canada? And if those who left in April, have you got your "stuff" back. 

Also if anyone knows the direct number for CFB Esquimalts' CMTT (if they have one) it would be appreciated.


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Jun 2009)

You can try this number (250) 363-2000 and ask for the CMTT Section.


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## Franko (19 Jun 2009)

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> So my UABs were submitted (for a lack of better word) on about the 4th of April.................and its June and I don't have them. I did leave in a RIP so was expecting them to take a while getting back. I gave my parents phone number, so I was hoping that maybe the message didnt get passed on to me............however I tried phoning the base CMTT (twice) but seem to have gotten disconnected, or else nobody picked upo the phone.
> 
> I'm just wondering if there's an average time for them to be sent back to Canada? And if those who left in April, have you got your "stuff" back.
> 
> Also if anyone knows the direct number for CFB Esquimalts' CMTT (if they have one) it would be appreciated.



There are troops who passed in their UAB in March and still haven't received them. Last I heard they were still in KAF, possibly on it's way to Trenton.

Remember, priority for kit is not UAB.

Regards


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## PuckChaser (20 Jun 2009)

I feel lucky... I got my UAB on my half days when I was back in Canada, barely 2 weeks after I turned them in at KAF.


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## Strike (20 Jun 2009)

I just got mine last week and dropped them off at KAF the first week of April.  Given I'm just down the road from Trenton yours might well be somewhere between Trenton or Esquimalt, or are still waiting clearance from customs.


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## catalyst (20 Jun 2009)

I'll just it and wait I guess  Its not a big thing, although every once and a while I go looking for some item of clothing and remember its in my UABs. I didn't think much about packing (my fault oops)

I'll keep trying CMTT  - I keep getting disconnected, once I get my ID renewed I might take a gander over there (becuase parents are nutorious about not passing along messages). 

Thanks for the responses


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## navymich (8 Jul 2009)

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> ... so I was hoping that maybe the message didnt get passed on to me...



I turned my UAB in about 20 Apr and just picked it up yesterday.  Found out that (here anyway) they don't call or email to say it's arrived, you have to keep checking.  Your area might be the same, so you should try to get ahold of them.  Mine has actually been here for over 2 weeks and I only knew it was in because I overheard from someone else.  I was getting ready to check on it soon anyway, but mistakenly assumed that I would be informed it was here.  Oh well, I've got it now.  Almost like Christmas, I'd forgotten all of the stuff I'd crammed into them!


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## Franko (8 Jul 2009)

airmich said:
			
		

> I turned my UAB in about 20 Apr and just picked it up yesterday.  Found out that (here anyway) they don't call or email to say it's arrived, you have to keep checking.  Your area might be the same, so you should try to get ahold of them.  Mine has actually been here for over 2 weeks and I only knew it was in because I overheard from someone else.  I was getting ready to check on it soon anyway, but mistakenly assumed that I would be informed it was here.  Oh well, I've got it now.  Almost like Christmas, I'd forgotten all of the stuff I'd crammed into them!



Yeah, some of the guys stuff they shipped in March finally arrived 2 weeks ago on base. They picked them up immediately, seeing as some of them are posted and some of the items in the MOBs were required to be turned in prior to clearing base.

Regards


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## ExSpr (8 Jul 2009)

Armysailor

Do you have your TCN (Transportation Control Number) I can look it up, if not the # for CMTT in Esquimalt is 250-363-7196


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## Gramps (8 Jul 2009)

As already stated UAB is low priority. Also, people try to bring things back that either do not belong in UAB or that is just plain illegal. Customs is very thorough with UAB lately and the amount of freight entering Trenton is quite high so that also may slow things down. As stated before, if you have the TCN then the items can be traced by anyone with access to NMDS. If you have a TCN (alpha numeric number that will look something like AP 9100 00 000) and the items are in Trenton then send me a PM and I can look into this personally.


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## George Wallace (8 Jul 2009)

Does the ZAP number do any good in tracking your UAB?


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## Gramps (8 Jul 2009)

The ZAP # usually will not give any feeback in NMDS. Of course if I had the info given via telephone (ZAP # and destination) I could keep my eye out for it. If you need my office number I can send it to you via PM. Let me know.


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## catalyst (9 Jul 2009)

ExSpr said:
			
		

> Armysailor
> 
> Do you have your TCN (Transportation Control Number) I can look it up, if not the # for CMTT in Esquimalt is 250-363-7196



I'm in comox right now playing army......so will have to look and see if I brought the paperwork. Standby


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## Jarnhamar (16 Jul 2010)

I'm trying to track down a members lost unaccompanied baggage,  can someone point me in the right direction?

He was on TaskForce 3-09 with 1MP Coy deployed September 09  to  Feb 10.  He was out of Edmonton (pretraining etc..)  but his home area is Ottawa. Came home a few months early for compassionate reasons. 

Does anyone have any points of contact whom I could speak with to help this soldier out? I'm not sure if I should be looking out west in Edmonton or here in Ottawa region.

Thanks


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

780-973-4011 will get you the base operator. Just ask for CMTT.


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## Jarnhamar (16 Jul 2010)

Hey we have a whole thread dedicated to this, awesome. (I love army.ca)
Thanks Tango18a


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

No problem. I know that TF3-09 is still waiting for UAB. I guess Troops kit isn't quite a priority in Trenton.


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> No problem. I know that TF3-09 is still waiting for UAB. I guess Troops kit isn't quite a priority in Trenton.



As I have mentioned before. UAB is a low priority shipment but with people seding home prohibited items like switch blades, brass knuckles, butterfly knives, illegal suppliments and certain other substances in their UAB (not everyone but there are more than you think) CBSA has deemed it necessary to search each and every item of UAB. Also UAB is flown to Germany, then put on a ship to Montreal, sent in bond to YTR and only then does it get inspected. Take approximately 2500 personnel multiply it by 2 items UAB each and then you have 5000 pieces of UAB each roto to have inspected. Once inspected and cleared it is sorted by destination and sent out by CMTT at that point in a sea can or trailer. You have no clue what the priority freght is here in Trenton so as they always say on this site, maybe you should stay within your lanes. If people would stop sending illegal crap home in their UAB you would more than likely have received it by now.


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

TF3-09 returned to Canada in March. 4 months is getting to be excesive when Arid needs to be returned to clothing for reissue to the next group. And how do you clear clothing when theater kit is still in transit???


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> TF3-09 returned to Canada in March. 4 months is getting to be excesive when Arid needs to be returned to clothing for reissue to the next group. And how do you clear clothing when theater kit is still in transit???



As I said, if you arent in Trenton then you have no idea what the priority of shipments are. Four months is long but until people stop screwing around and stop trying to smuggle crap into this country it will coninue to take a long time to receive UAB. You wouldnt believe some of the stuff CBSA finds, each time they find something the have documentation to fill out before the UAB is cleared, they have found things that required the hangar to be evacuated due to safety before. On top of the UAB all mail returning to Canada is inspected piece by piece and X-Rayed and they find just as much interesting stuff in the mail too. The ones to blame here are the people trying to smuggle stuff, not Trenton.


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

To add to this, some of the people sending things home do not even understand that what they are sending is prohibited. Basically if you didnt buy it in Canada then it shouldnt be in your UAB. Aso I want to clarify that some of the illegal substances are things like tobacco and alcohol, I was in no way referring to illegal drugs.


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

So if the hold up is CBSA, then have the CoC submit to have more of their officers present to inspect these shipments. That way the troops can receive their pers effects and deployment kit in a reasonable timeframe. Clothing needs that kit to be returned in order to equip the next Battle group. They will not let them clear out as part of their release unless their deployment account is cleared, and if their deployment kit is still in Trenton waiting for inspection they can't release. Maybe the pre-departure inspection isn't thourough enough?


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## dapaterson (16 Jul 2010)

Maybe it's time to start dusting off the NDA - 129 and 130 are two of my favourite numbers.


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> So if the hold up is CBSA, then have the CoC submit to have more of their officers present to inspect these shipments. That way the troops can receive their pers effects and deployment kit in a reasonable timeframe. Clothing needs that kit to be returned in order to equip the next Battle group. They will not let them clear out as part of their release unless their deployment account is cleared, and if their deployment kit is still in Trenton waiting for inspection they can't release. Maybe the pre-departure inspection isn't thourough enough?



As for asking for more CBSA members, that is something that has been looked into and it appears there are more CBSA officers in Trenton now than there ever was before. Keep in mind though, CBSA also has to clear each aircraft and is load inbound to YTR so, they are quite busy at times too. I cannot comment on the inspection conducted in KAF prior to departure but you do bring up a good point. The MCC det in KAF is extremely busy though and I cannot comment on how they run things there as it has been almost three years since I was in KAF, even when I was there I worked for a different organization. There are other variables in this mess but I cannot and will not go into detail on an open forum, just remember that Trenton does not like the UAB situation any better than you do.


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

And is there any reason that UAB bound for Edmonton can't be handled by CBSA in Edmonton?


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## ModlrMike (16 Jul 2010)

Maybe a solution would be a CBSA TAV during the UAB drop-off period. Shipments could be cleared in country prior to departure where there is more time to do the search. I'm not sure how this suggestion to would affect UAB collected at dispersed locations, but it would certainly help at KAF. I know that the movers in KAF are extremely busy, and certainly try their best to do a thorough search, but they're not CBSA, so the bags are still not exactly cleared for customs purposes. I'm with Gramps in the level of astonishment that I have when I hear about stuff troops attempt to send home. I agree with Dataperson that 129 and 130 should be used more often in this instance. We tell the troops their subject to them, but we don't follow through.


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

A TAV would be good or have a Det in Mirage. And have the member present when the UAB is checked, then charges can be laid right there.


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

As for CBSA in YED taking care of it the items would have to be shipped in bond to Edmonton from Montreal for that to happen and that wouldbe a decision that CBSA would have to make. I dont know if CBSA would send members to KAF for preclearance due to the risk factor. I think there is some CBSA mmbers on this site that would be best suited to answer these questions. As for charges on the members, that may help, I do not know. I know I have seen some of the stuff that comes back and walked away thinking that some people should be charged for sure.


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

Well if CBSA would be willing to make that decision it would benefit the system. No more backlog in Trenton, and the troops would get thier kit quicker, and be able to turn it in. Charges would get rid of the temptation to break the rules


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> A TAV would be good or have a Det in Mirage. And have the member present when the UAB is checked, then charges can be laid right there.



They have done TAVs before in KAF, I am not sure if it is still done though due to manning issues. The Movemets people in Camp Mirage are far too busy to inspect the UAB from KAF there and they do not have storage space for it. If it were done in CM it would also displace priority freight and passengers on the aircraft transiting through there which would cause an totally different issue.


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## Gramps (16 Jul 2010)

I am certain that CMTT Trenton would love to not have to deal with all that UAB. I do not work in CMTT but I do work very close to them and coordinate with them daily.


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## REDinstaller (16 Jul 2010)

It might be a good thing to spare a few backs and share the load.


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## Jarnhamar (17 Jul 2010)

Returning UAB still doesn't seem like a priority to me.
My fellow was waiting for his UAB since February 2010.  With the help of Tango I found it in 15 minutes. It was sitting in a warehouse since May and no one was able to (I say inclined to) track down this person and send them their UAB.

Once I've waited the 2 or 3 month wait time then waited another 8 months for my lost UAB to show up. One day a private in kingston was board, noticed my stuff in a warehouse and took a few minutes to track me down and let me know my stuff was waiting.

I can see how searching every piece of UAB coming back can be time consuming but the system is still broke.  The person I spoke with on the phone the other day told me they generally don't bother trying to find errant UAB it's home.

Returning UAB to soldiers should be a priority, otherwise what happens is people like me choke up the mail system because we send our UAB stuff home in the mail instead. Each base should have a person or two tasked with this specifically when the UAB starts coming in.

It would be nice if this stuff could get checked in Kandahar or Mirage and declared safe. Not wasting everyones time with a cursory search then researching it again at customs- but search it by professionals once then sent home.  Anyone caught sending home seriously illegal dangerous goods gets charged.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2010)

It took more than seven months to get my stuff from Afghanistan. I got it because I was doing a tour of Dennison in Toronto, nowhere near where I live, and saw my barrack boxes stacked in a cage with a bunch of others (thank god for our multi coloured marking scheme : ). I had to come back, on my own dime during the week (6 hr round trip) in order to be there when the civvie was there with the key.

When asked when he intended on sending all this stuff on, he said 

"When I receive a request for it".
"Do you notify anyone that you have it?"
"Not my job. It shows up, I store it, and send it on when requested to".
"How does someone know it's here to request it from you?"

Ever seen a deer caught in the headlights?

The system sucks, unless you are at a place that has a Traffic section.


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## REDinstaller (18 Jul 2010)

And some Tfc sects are worse than others. WO X was on course in Gagetown until Nov 09, sends UAB to Tfc upon completion of course, asks for shipping delivery date told 2-3 weeks. Good to go I'll need it for Podium in mid Jan. Comes 1st week back to work after Xmas lve, wheres my UAB??? Still siting in the warehouse(WHERE??House) in Gagetown. Now requires a second issue for Podium. Should this be happening??? NO


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## captloadie (19 Jul 2010)

Ahhh, some very good points made by both sides, yet everyone wants to point the finger at someone else.

I agree that there is a problem with the system, as far as domestic UAB is concerned. It does show the problem of what happens when everything, including training and manning, is geared towards going to war. How many new Ptes and Cpls in the Tfc Tech trade get any experience (vs just training) in an actual CMTT role these days (outside of Trenton)? The majority of it is either contracted out, or a small and often secondary task in a supply R&D section.

With regards to UAB coming back from Ops, if the finger needs to be pointed at anybody, it is the TF itself. If you want your kit back in a timely fashion, create a new secondary duty for some warm bodies and have them inspect the stuff before it makes it to the Tfc Techs. It doesn't need to be a Tfc Tech, as it is like any other kit inspection. Once it is once it leaves Afghanistan, or wherever it is outside of Canada, it is out of the CFs hands. It is then up to CBSA to do what they want with it until they release it. And as far as moving them forward to preclear items, why should they. If we can't ensure our people follow the rules, why should they inconvenience their people.

I don't think charging people is an option either, unfortunately. I believe if CBSA finds something and confiscates it, it then becomes between them and the individual involved, and because of privacy issues and the Charter of Rights, they won't release the information to DND.

One day, maybe, we will be like UPS, and be able to provide a tracking number to every individual so they can see exactly where their UAB is. But I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## REDinstaller (27 Jul 2010)

Isn't a CARF number a tracking number?


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## captloadie (28 Jul 2010)

Maybe I should have been clearer in that maybe in the future we will have an adequate system that will allow us to do real time tracking. So far, everything we have tried has met with either technical or bureaucratic difficulties. RFID, ITV, etc., all have their limitations due to how and where we operate. As well, we currently track items by shipment, not by individual piece. So if you called, I could tell you when your shipment arrived/departed a location, and _maybe_ some of the on route stops it has made, but once that pallet is broken down, or sea container is emptied, the tracking stops for that shipment. 

Here is an example of how it used to be, but I may be a little out of date:
1) You drop your UAB off in KAF, it is loaded onto a pallet or placed in a sea container. So we know where it is and can track it to its next destination.
2) Lets say that it goes to CM first, the pallet is broken down, and your UAB end up on a new pallet that goes out on a flight in 2 weeks. It is now part of a new shipment, which probably is not linked to the old shipment in the system. 
3) The shipment arrives in Trenton, the pallet is unloaded, it waits on the floor until CBSA clears it. Because you are an augmentee, lets say from a reserve unit in London, your UAB goes out on a commercial carrier to the support unit there, as a new shipment with a new tracking number. Someone in London receives the shipment, probably not a traffic tech, and probably without access to the NMDS. They have none of the original paperwork you filled out when you dropped it off, and the only contact info is what is sprayed on your kit. So they wait until someone calls looking for it. 
4) After 3 or 4 months, you start calling around looking for UAB. You call Pet, because you deployed with that Battle Group. They say, we all got ours 2 months ago, its not here, sorry call Trenton. You call Trenton, give them the number on the paperwork, they tell you they know it made it to CM, but will have to investigate further to track it down. They put it on their long list of things to do, and hopefully, if all the correct info is in the system, they can track it down. 
5) Trenton final is able to figure out where it is, you call London ASU, they say we'll look for it, but seeing as it came in a month ago, it is probably squirreled away somewhere hard to find.
6) Finally, 6-9 months after redeploying, you finally get a call that your stuff has been found, please come get it out here, its been taking up space for months and why didn't you get it earlier.

Now, if they have finally managed to get all the bar code readers working, and the system set up at all locations, and the people trained on how to properly use the system, then they may be able to tell you where the UAB should be, at any given time. But I don't know if we are there yet.


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## Gramps (28 Jul 2010)

RFID is only used on specific shipments and is generally not used on UAB.


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## Gramps (28 Jul 2010)

Tango18A, you are indeed correct, the CARF contains a TCN, this number remains with the shipment for its entirety, the Waybill number will change from one location to the next but the TCN remains the same.

UAB flows similar to what Captloadie mentioned with some differences though. It is placed in a Sea Can but is normally sent to a different location than Camp Mirage now. Upon arrival in the new location it is placed on a ship and sent to Montreal, from Montreal is it trucked to YTR in bond and sorted from there. They have also come out with new barcode readers that work a lot better than the old ones did.


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## kincanucks (28 Jul 2010)

My question would be: Why is the Arid CADPAT in the UAB, shouldn't it be with the person redeploying packed in their accompanied baggage?


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## REDinstaller (28 Jul 2010)

Sometimes the kit issued isn't used by troops in the field.  So it is sent in UAB. Camelbaks may seem like a good idea until you don't have a way to chill the water inside. And accompanied baggage sometimes has a way of turning into UAB due to weight constraints on the aircraft.


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## Journeyman (28 Jul 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Camelbaks may seem like a good idea until you don't have a way to chill the water inside.


Yep, war is hell   ;D


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## REDinstaller (28 Jul 2010)

Nothing like the taste of hot water from a rubber bladder. BLAAH.


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