# The military does not distinguish between qualified reservists and regular army?



## UberCree (23 Apr 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/04/22/militia-060422.html

"Lieut. William Turner was another reservist who died in the explosion. 

Born in Toronto and stationed in Edmonton, the letter carrier volunteered to replace Lieut. Trevor Greene, 41, the reserve member of the Vancouver-based Seaforth Highlanders Regiment who was critically injured when he was hit in the head with an axe during a visit to an Afghan village. 

Like Greene, Turner was serving as a civilian-military co-operation officer in Afghanistan. 

...

Gen. Rick Hillier, Canada's top soldier, told CP the military does not distinguish between qualified reservists and regular army soldiers in Afghanistan. 

"We believe we have the training and preparation and the equipping ... to be the best in the world in that theatre. So reservist or regular force, it doesn't matter," Hillier said. "

I say BS General Hillier sir! The military DOES make a distinction.  Ask any R23A who has applied for a 23A job.  Now it seems that the R23A jobs are higher risk?  WTF?  
This pisses me off because you force people to train at a lower standard, don't allow them to do the work they want to do (the jobs a reserve officer can apply to do are VERY limited) and then when they get hurt you say we are all trained and treated to the same standard.  TOTAL BS.


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## vonGarvin (23 Apr 2006)

I disagree.  Given the nature of reservists (eg: they have other jobs to do, and sacrifice their summer holidays to train, whereas we in the reg force don't have to make that sacrifice), ALL soldiers, reg and reserve, "train up" prior to deployment.  The day-to-day training of a reservist may incorporate less than what regs get, but as I said, before going "over there", they train up.
As for R23A, they now participate in DP 1.1 and DP 1.2 along with their regular comrades (as they used to do until about 99 or so).  I know that this wasn't always the case (Reserve Platoon Comd course, for example), but I think it's a good thing that reservist officers can now do training at CTC to the same standard as the Reg Force candidates.
I realise it's different for NCMs, but prior to going over, they will have to make up any shortcomings, making their effort that much more.


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## Chimo (23 Apr 2006)

Correct me if I am wrong UberCree but does not every soldier (Regular and Reserve) need to meet all requirements of training prior to deployment and must be validated both as an individual soldier and as part of their team (on the validation Ex). 

To this I would state that makes a Reservist "Trained". I have been on many deployments with reserve agumentees, never have I heard the chain of command state, "he can't do the mission because he/she is a reservist". There is a vast difference between a reservist that has gone through the work up training and one that shows up every Tues night. 

I am not down on Reservist, I appreciate their sacrifices and efforts. I disagree with the statement that they are being put into anymore danger than any other soldier. Afghanistan is a dangerous place. I have heard the tired argument about Reservist sacrificing their holiday and weekends and we Regular Force get to have them as well. Well, I will tell you this, I have missed a fair amount of holidays, weekends, birthdays special family moments etc. I do not get to pick the missions I want. My Unit tells me when I am moving out.

Two finally points, first, this continual argument about the preception that the Reserves should be trained to the Regular Force standard will never happen. It will only happen to individuals deploying with Regular Force Units. The only other possibility is the individual has extended class B or C callouts. My second point is Sir, be very careful when you criticize the CDS in a public forum. It leads me to question loyalties. It also sends mixed messages to soldiers and civilians.

Now get back to training and be mission focused.


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## geo (23 Apr 2006)

There was a time. not too long ago where officers, both Reg & Res would take their phase training together - equal training. Some bean counters changed that for a short period but, as far as I know - they're back in synch... equal qualification - though different experience due to "real life".

WRT to the "militia" NCM training, the recent experience of BQ, SQ, BMQ in 60 days (infantry) (20+20+20) are counted. Changes coming down the pipe will extend that qualifying period by another 20 days (more for other trades) - will there still be a delta between "us and them"? you betcha BUT, it's getting narrower


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## UberCree (23 Apr 2006)

Chimo said:
			
		

> be very careful when you criticize the CDS in a public forum. It leads me to question loyalties. It also sends mixed messages to soldiers and civilians.



I am a civilian (right now).  Accordingly I can call it how I see it and am not bound the the QRO's.  

I must appologize also because I do have a rather large chip on my shoulder.  When I initially signed up I was explicitely NOT allowed to attend phase training.  Not was I or others allowed to attend phase 4, even those that were planning on going to Bosnia.
I could go on Pathfinder, but not phase 4...  I could not try out for a specific unit, meanwhile a reg force airforce officer with zero combat arms training could, or ANY officer in any trade could.  I do have a chip on my shoulder yes.
Yes I am biased, and yes I know things have somewhat changed for the better.  I acknowledge that.  I also know that there are some very fine and professional reserve soldiers, this is not a negative against them, it is a complaint against 'the system'.


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## geo (23 Apr 2006)

Ubercree....
given that the CDS was not part of the establishment that gave you grief, maybe you should be ranting at ths CF as a whole instead of the CDS as "THE"  A$$hole


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## ArmyRick (23 Apr 2006)

I joined in 1990 and let me tell you, we have come along, long way from the days of reservist and regular army being on seperate planets.  We have trained several reservist these days on regular DP1 infantry.

Its the mans will and determination that make him a soldier not his cap badge.


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## orange.paint (23 Apr 2006)

Difference

reservist can work close to home

earning rank is quicker

you can pick and choose taskings/tours

make a little less pay

never go overseas if you do not choose to.

time for schooling

and wear dumb looking slippers with dinner plates for capbadges on your head in  some regiments.

other than thats theres nothing.


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## the 48th regulator (23 Apr 2006)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Meltdown has commenced.

Nice one rcac_011, alot of time on your plate between postings?

dileas

tess


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## NL_engineer (23 Apr 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> and wear dumb looking slippers with dinner plates for capbadges on your head in  some regiments.



Rcac_011, 
If I were a slip on that says 'ENGINEERS' and an engineer cap badge, how do you know if I am reg or res ???

The difference in the end is just training IMO.  (besides for the cap badges worn by the infinity).


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## the 48th regulator (23 Apr 2006)

NL_engineer  


No need to bother, what he is doing is trolling on list last breaths here...


dileas

tess


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Apr 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> and wear dumb looking slippers with dinner plates for capbadges on your head in  some regiments.



There's a lot of distinguished Units and service behind many of those headress and cap badges. Maybe that's another difference.

-RESPECT-


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## Centurian1985 (23 Apr 2006)

The problem between reg and res is not the level of training, but experience and dedication.  Some reservists are not experienced enough when they head overseas and others treat a tour overseas like a big vacation.  

The great thing about working with reservists is their enthusiasm and optimism.  While reg force soldiers get older, crusty, grizzled, and cynical, these young reservists rush in with big-eyed wonder, full of excitement and enthusiasm (kind of like a new puppy...its hard to hate a puppy   :dontpanic.       

The only thing that ever annoyed me about working with reserves is their singing of unit songs.  Unit morale is great but tact and dimplomacy are just as important.  
I.E. If you are a reservist Scot Highlander and you and your ten friends want to sing songs and brag about how you are the best and can kick anybodys ass,while surrounded by reg force infantry soldiers, dont be surprised when they take offense and call you on it!


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## FormerHorseGuard (23 Apr 2006)

I am glad to see the training is changing and becoming more equal. 
with that said, i hope down the pipe comes more equal footing for the res army side to go along side the res air and res navy guys.  because once you go on a tour you have to know your job regardless of the res/reg training.


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## the 48th regulator (23 Apr 2006)

> Some reservists are not experienced enough when they head overseas and others treat a tour overseas like a big vacation



Really Centurian,

What tour was that, my grizzled friend.

dileas

tess


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## Kat Stevens (23 Apr 2006)

Right on!  We haven't had a good Reg vs Res thread in here all week.... well, we've never actually had a GOOD one, but you know what I mean...


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Apr 2006)

Centurian1985 said:
			
		

> The problem between reg and res is not the level of training, but experience and dedication.  Some reservists are not experienced enough when they head overseas and others treat a tour overseas like a big vacation.



Hmmmm. Now really Centurion, that can be said for both sides. There are many witnesses to that.


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## orange.paint (23 Apr 2006)

Experience matters when you guard a gate?A gate is a gate.


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## the 48th regulator (23 Apr 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> Experience matters when you guard a gate?A gate is a gate.



That's right,

You tell it like it is!  Don't hold back now.

dileas

tess


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## orange.paint (23 Apr 2006)

Gee thanks figured saying something you disagrees with you would not sit well.
Reservist also seem to not have thicker skin i.e take a ribbing so well in my experience.


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## Haggis (23 Apr 2006)

Maybe this recent comment by the CDS will be the beginning of his end?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42446.0.html

He's saying pretty inflammatory stuff by *Army.ca* standards.

(another thread circling the drain.....)


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## orange.paint (23 Apr 2006)

But all in all we are all here to complete somekind of service to our country part time full time.Some are better trained some have better education.

some are going out for a 21km run..

some are eating tacos.


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## the 48th regulator (23 Apr 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> Gee thanks figured saying something you disagrees with you would not sit well.
> Reservist also seem to not have thicker skin i.e take a ribbing so well in my experience.




Ahh ribbing,

As opposed to the thick skulled   skinned comments from some others.

Yep some are going for runs, and others for tacos, 

Then there are those that are bitter and go and run off at the mouth, causing the same effect as tacos...

dileas

tess


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## Centurian1985 (23 Apr 2006)

First, there is more than one deployment going on in the world, and there is more than 1 reserve trade being sent overseas.  Not all comments about reservists are based on how they perform in Afghanistan.

Saying that: 

Recceguy - Yes, it can be said for both sides.  Yes, there are some incredibly incompetent reg force guys out there.   

Tess - And no, I dont think this is true for the troops in Afghanistan, there has been an extra effort to ensure that troops deloying there are ready and able, especially with the combat arms.  It is not, unfortunately, a standard held up in other reserve trades.  (In 2004 during a selection program, I had two reservists who didnt even know how to read a map and two others who were unable to tell their positions using local features - come on, even you have to admit this is basic stuff here! And they were screening for overseas positions where that skill was needed!)   

Kat - I am contemplating ducking out before you dogpile me!


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## Haggis (23 Apr 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> But all in all we are all here to complete somekind of service to our country part time full time.Some are better trained some have better education.
> 
> some are going out for a 21km run..
> 
> some are eating tacos.



So, what's your point?

I have a plate of nachos in front of me right now.  Fat free chips, iced chicken breast, skim milk cheddar grated on top of some low-cal hot salsa.  Just the type of high fibre, high protien snack to top off a ruck march.


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## the 48th regulator (23 Apr 2006)

> Tess - And no, I dont think this is true for the troops in Afghanistan, there has been an extra effort to ensure that troops deloying there are ready and able, especially with the combat arms.  It is not, unfortunately, a standard held up in other reserve trades.  (In 2004 during a selection program, I had two reservists who didnt even know how to read a map and two others who were unable to tell their positions using local features - come on, even you have to admit this is basic stuff here! And they were screening for overseas positions!)



I asked you what tour, were you talking about. The one that "reservists" considered a vacation.

I only did one.  1994, and it was not Afghanistan, and I did not think it a vacation, however I only did 3 months of the 6 month tour.

dileas

tess


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## Bruce Monkhouse (23 Apr 2006)

LOCKED!!

Know what?....its confession time.
I'm sick of the bickering/whining/sniveling that goes on between SOME of our members when it comes to the Reg/Res thing.

I will start deleting/locking threads as they appear on the website from now on if they even venture that way.

We have a common enemy already and it ain't us........


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