# Do reserve units allow rental of mess / drill hall for private events?



## ChaosTheory (9 Jul 2013)

I am getting married in a year or two and my finacée and I were interested in possibly doing it at a local military establishment.  I am a reg force member currently in Ottawa.  She is from Guelph so that's where we'd like to do it near.

I was told they would have no problem renting it out at the Walkley Road armoury.  I contacted the Ops O at the Reserve unit in Guelph and he said he has never heard of that happening and does not see it ever happening at their unit.  I know there's another reserve unit in Kitchener and Cambridge.  A bunch in Hamilton and St. Catherines (but they are too far).

Do Reserve units ever allow for the rental of their mess or drill hall, to military members, for private events?


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Jul 2013)

I've never seen or heard of the 'renting' aspect but I have known of members' who have used the Mess before after gaining authority thru the applic CoC.


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## Remius (9 Jul 2013)

It depends on the mess and the drill hall in question.  The OPI at a drill hall may be able to "rent" out the drill hall but might not have a say on the use of the messes (normally a PMC or comitee thing) or vice versa.  Some messes require a sponsor (normally a mess member).  You also might be on the hook for things like duty staff as well.  I'm using the word rent loosely as well. 

Best bet is to contact the units' armouries OPI for that kind of info.


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## Jarnhamar (9 Jul 2013)

I'd contact the mess PMC. If they agree with letting you use it they will probably then ask the officerin charge of their armories or whoever else in the COC and you'll be told yes or no. I routinely let people use the JRs mess I was PMC of for free.  

One selling point may be to work out something where you employ the mess's bartender and use their alcohol.  One wedding we had ended up making our mess $3000.


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## Haggis (9 Jul 2013)

The process is called "Non-Military Use" and there are provisions for it (I don't have the references).  In short, the user must provide certain coverages such as third party liability insurance, waivers, fire protection etc. and the fees are generally based on a rate of $$$ per square metre used plus tax.

As stated by OZ, try to contact the PMC of the appropriate Mess for your rank and see if you could book that instead of the whole Armoury.

Or get yourself posted to 56 Fd Regt and just book the mess as a member for a family function.  ;D


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## Remius (9 Jul 2013)

Forgot about the liability insurance.


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## Disenchantedsailor (10 Jul 2013)

Being on OIC Armoury myself the drill is pretty simple (albeit costly)
The non-NPF areas can be rented out by the hour or by the day Vimy Ridge Armoury in Lethbridge for example is 1750 per day.
Add to that liability insurance, booze licence, and duty nco/officer it gets pricey.
Depending on the Armoury ans the mess capacity the mess committee or Commanding officer sets the price,  there you only have to worry about rent of the space (which is usually very very cheap) add in a duty guys pay and the bartenders pay and you have yourself a reception.

Feel free to shoot me a pm if you like and I can point you in the right direction


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## ChaosTheory (12 Jul 2013)

Thanks a lot everyone.

Right now it looks like my best bet is to contact PMCs.  The biggest hurdle is figuring out who they are.  Most reserve units barely have internet/intranet sites let alone recent update contact info.  I need to find the PMC for the 11th Field Artillery Regiment in Guelph as well as the PMCs of the The Royal Highland Fusiliers Messes in Cambridge and Kitchener.


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## PViddy (12 Jul 2013)

I command a Cadet unit out of the Cambridge armoury and am an associate member of that mess.  

We have used the facility for our own fundraising dinners (non cadet function but in support of the unit) with alcohol served.  I believe it is possible to do what you propose since you are military (AFAIK they don't/can't just rent it out to anyone) though it was a process for us to get it approved through the local ASU (means of egress, fire codes, number of guests, set up etc).  PM me and i can provide you with the PMC's contact information for the RHFC.  It would have to be in Cambridge though, the mess, as well as the armoury, in Kitchener is rather small.

Cheers,

PV


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jul 2013)

I used the Officer's mess at the Quebec Citadelle for my wedding.  It was dirt cheap, catering was done by the Citadelle's chef, served by their servers at the table. Better food than any other place I could have hired.  We used the facilities for the party afterward and again, top notch service.  Price was around 80$ a plate, including essentially unlimited wine (4 courses, the cake was prepared by a specialized place)

To have acces, I had to write a letter (not memo) to the Cmdt of the facilities (in my case, 2R22R) through my own CO.


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## pbi (26 Jul 2013)

As some posters have identified, there is quite a difference between renting a mess for a function (a very common practice, and one that keeps many messes, both Res and RegF, out of the red), and arranging for non-military use of an armoury.

Referring to my own experience in 38 CBG 2002-2005, the NMU& of armouries in SK, MB and NW ON was controlled very tightly by our supporting base (in our case RCAF Wing Winnipeg, except for Brandon which was sp by Shilo). Any request by a NMU applicant had to be sent to the Wing Property Officer, who reviewed it against Treasury Board policy for use of Govt of Canada property. The applicant had to prove that they had tried to use other venues but could not obtain them, and had to agree to a series of idemnities and restrictions. 

Suffice it to say, it drove away alot of NMU applicants, which I think was the Govt's intent. It was a very unpopular policy in our Bde, but there you go.

I recommend that if you want to arrange NMU of an armoury (as opposed to rental of a mess), you check with the Property Officer at whatever your support base is. Failing that, check with the CBG HQ.

Cheers

DJB


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## 241 (26 Jul 2013)

pbi said:
			
		

> As some posters have identified, there is quite a difference between renting a mess for a function (a very common practice, and one that keeps many messes, both Res and RegF, out of the red), and arranging for non-military use of an armoury.
> 
> Referring to my own experience in 38 CBG 2002-2005, the NMU& of armouries in SK, MB and NW ON was controlled very tightly by our supporting base (in our case RCAF Wing Winnipeg, except for Brandon which was sp by Shilo). Any request by a NMU applicant had to be sent to the Wing Property Officer, who reviewed it against Treasury Board policy for use of Govt of Canada property. The applicant had to prove that they had tried to use other venues but could not obtain them, and had to agree to a series of idemnities and restrictions.
> 
> ...



I am the NCO IC of our Armouries and I can tell you that they do that as we are not in the business of catering events and are not to be competitive with places  that are.  But obviously since they allow it they are not against it, we just have to charge more then most venues of the same size.  With our building renting of messes goes two ways, a) if a member of the mess "sponsors" the event it is considered similar to a mess function as a member is involved, not sure if the mess charges a rental fee as we let the mess committee deal with that.  If it is a completely outside group a request has to be put in by the group for approval by the property people in Edmonton to approve (TH Armouries OIC takes care of this part usually so I am not sure what is involved) then they must pay a rental charge and also for bar staff and a duty NCO.  The main drill hall is also available for rent and we get some pretty strange people wanting to rent it.  Had a "Women's oil wrestling" organization want to rent once, I kinda exaggerated how hard it would be to get approved to convince them to go elsewhere, some of the guys were a little upset with me when I mentioned it the next parade night.


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