# White PO2 Rank Badge



## Halifax Tar (22 May 2014)

Hey all, 

Im trying to find a place in or around Kingston, Ont I can locate and aquire.  I tried SAS on princess, no luck. 

Anyone have any clues ?  

Thanks in advance, 

HT


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## Happy Guy (18 Jun 2014)

You may want to try Joe Drouin Enterprises at: http://www.joedrouin.com/home.php?l=en
His business is not in Kingston but he has a thriving online business.

Cheers


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## Pusser (19 Jun 2014)

Joe Drouin is a good place to start, but you still may not have any luck.  

The trouble is that the CF never actually issued a white PO2 badge (or PO1 and above for that matter).  When the original plan to issue white tunics to naval personnel went down the drain at the beginning of the DEU project in the mid 80s, the only white rank badges that ended up being produced were for MS and below as they were the only ones who wore them on an issued uniform at that point.  MS&B wore a trade badge on the right sleeve of their short-sleeve shirts and a full-size rank badge on the left sleeve, along with plain slip-ons (and black shoes with white trousers, but that's another story).  PO2s and above did not wear trade badges on short-sleeve shirts and wore their rank on their slip-ons.  The general assumption was that only the officers would bother to buy the high-collar white tunics.  For the most part, very few NCMs (and not many more officers) decided to purchase white tunics.  Those that did either wore the same black-backed badges as they wore on their other tunics or, in the case of the PO2s anyway, kind of combined an MS and LS badge to produce the three-chevron effect.

Good luck!


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## Halifax Tar (19 Jun 2014)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Joe Drouin is a good place to start, but you still may not have any luck.
> 
> The trouble is that the CF never actually issued a white PO2 badge (or PO1 and above for that matter).  When the original plan to issue white tunics to naval personnel went down the drain at the beginning of the DEU project in the mid 80s, the only white rank badges that ended up being produced were for MS and below as they were the only ones who wore them on an issued uniform at that point.  MS&B wore a trade badge on the right sleeve of their short-sleeve shirts and a full-size rank badge on the left sleeve, along with plain slip-ons (and black shoes with white trousers, but that's another story).  PO2s and above did not wear trade badges on short-sleeve shirts and wore their rank on their slip-ons.  The general assumption was that only the officers would bother to buy the high-collar white tunics.  For the most part, very few NCMs (and not many more officers) decided to purchase white tunics.  Those that did either wore the same black-backed badges as they wore on their other tunics or, in the case of the PO2s anyway, kind of combined an MS and LS badge to produce the three-chevron effect.
> 
> Good luck!



I got the last pair at Joe Drouin.  Saved me a good 50$ as Andrei's were going to charge me 78$ + Labour to sew them on! 

First time out in public tonight at the CFJSR Snr NCO mess dinner!


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Jun 2014)

JSR has Mess Dinners just for Sgts and PO2s?


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## Halifax Tar (19 Jun 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> JSR has Mess Dinners just for Sgts and PO2s?



Do I actually need to break it down for you or are you just being facetious ?  I think you know exactly what I was saying.  My apologies for using common language and expressions. 

Interestingly if you look at this link from a forces.gc.ca URL you will notice Snr NCMs are PO2/Sgt to CPO1/CWO ranks. 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/honours-history-badges-insignia/rank.page


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Jun 2014)

I am being ACCURATE.  WOs are not Snr NCOs.  I seem to recall the mess being called the WOs and Sgts Mess not Snr NCOs Mess.

All Snr NCOs are Snr NCMs but not all Snr NCMs are Snr NCOs.  When I was promoted into the mess in 98, we still paid attention to detail back then.


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## Halifax Tar (19 Jun 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I am being ACCURATE.  WOs are not Snr NCOs.  I seem to recall the mess being called the WOs and Sgts Mess not Snr NCOs Mess.
> 
> All Snr NCOs are Snr NCMs but not all Snr NCMs are Snr NCOs.  When I was promoted into the mess in 98, we still paid attention to detail back then.



I know your right.  I was using common language and expressions.  Its even on my SQNs sharepoint page as the Snr NCO mess dinner.  I guess we just don't get hung up on this stuff as much as others. 

You know what ?  Since this is obviously a peeve of yours.  You should draft a memo up through your CoC to the CDS who can probably get a CANFORGEN released and ensure we all stop using the term Snr NCO when referring to PO2/Sgts and up.  Perhaps that will alleviate the salacious wrong that has been going on for so long and maybe help you get a few extra winks at night.


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Jun 2014)

We (the NCO Corps 'we') are letting some customs and traditions go that we shouldn't be.  This is one of them that was discussed a few times on my SLC in '02.  Its only gotten worse since then.


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## Pusser (20 Jun 2014)

Notwithstanding current regulations, the more traditional definition of an NCO in the navy included all grades of petty and chief petty officers.

Unification changed a few things in that staff/colour/flight sergeants were made warrant officers and thus elevated to warrant officer status, when they had previously been senior NCOs.  Because PO1s were now equated to the new warrant officer rank, they too became "warrant officers" of sorts. Similar things happened to the chief petty officers, who also became "warrant officers" as a result.  Warrant officers in the old Navy were something quite different.  They were definitely not NCOs, but chiefs and petty officers were.


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