# Whats in a (ships) name?



## Underway (14 Aug 2013)

We know that there are 8-10 ships being built within the next 5 years.  6-8 AOPS and 2 Berlin Class AOR's.

So with new ships there will be and new ship names.  So what should we name our new ships?

This quote is taken from the Directorate of History and Heritage website.  For the full document (and its an interesting read) please see the below link:

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/ol-lo/vol-tom-2/par1/index-eng.asp#sn-nn



> The naming of ships is a time-honoured maritime tradition. Sailors of all nations have always had a great affinity for their ships and, in English, refer to them with the feminine pronouns "she" or "her". This custom is thought to have evolved from the sailor's desire to give his ship a living personality worthy of his loyalty, devotion and service. A ship's name often has historical and geographical connotations and references. The meaning or significance of the name influences the badge, and selecting a name may mean perpetuating the battle honour and heritage of a previous "ship of the same name". (Although numbered vessels in the hundreds served during the Second World War, British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill directed that the numbered submarines in the Royal Navy during that war be named. His reasoning was that it was difficult to ask a man to die for a number.)
> 
> Prior to the Second World War the Royal Canadian Navy had few ships and naming them was no problem. Initially Royal Navy names were merely continued when a vessel was transferred to Canadian service, as was the case with the cruisers Niobe and Rainbow, Canada's first warships. In the inter‑war years, however, the practice grew of giving Canadian ships Canadian names or names with Canadian connections. With the great expansion caused by the Second World War, this practice was systematized.
> 
> ...



Recently it has been the habit to name ships and subs after Cities in Canada, following the directives of a. and b. listed above.  The last 28 vessels have been named after cities.  With the addition of new vessels why stop there?

So here are my ship names as a starting point:

AOR:  HMCS Hamilton (east coast AOR), HMCS Prince Rupert (west coast AOR)  - one BC and one Ontario,  quite frankly IMHO Hamilton needs a ship named after it, Windsor got a namesake before Hamilton??  :facepalm:

AOPS:  HMCS Iqaluit,  HMCS Churchill, HMCS Moosonee, HMCS Kuujjauq, HMCS Tuktoyatuk, HMCS Labrador City, HMCS Dawson, HMCS Arviat  - northern cities and communities,  the dispersion now means that each territory has 2 ships named after it in the fleet, also all provinces and territories that have a physical contact to the NWP/ arctic ocean are represented

CSC names:

For the first 4 of the Class which will be Area Air Defence Tribal Replacements I would go with the 4 other tribal class destroyer names that were not used recently.  Tribal names are commonly used for destroyers (as were river names)  

HMCS Nootka, HMCS Micmac, HMCS Cayuga, HMCS Haida (though because Haida is currently a museum I'm not sure if that name is "still active)

The remainder (11 ships left) get their retired Halifax Class Names leaving out HMCS Ottawa.


----------



## Edward Campbell (14 Aug 2013)

What about this list? Some are, currently, in service, but ...


----------



## Privateer (14 Aug 2013)

I like the names of the Culture (space) ships in Iain M. Bank's _Culture_ science fiction novels.  A list of all ship names per Wikipedia is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spacecraft_in_the_Culture_series.  The warships are those ending "OU" (offensive unit) in the Ship Type column. 

Some favorites:
_Revisionist_
_Trade Surplus_
_Gunboat Diplomat_
_Killing Time_
_Frank Exchange of Views_
_Attitude Adjuster_

In the novels, the ships are sentient and name themselves.

Perhaps we could commission Mr. Banks to come up with some uniquely Canadian names.


----------



## DONT_PANIC (14 Aug 2013)

Privateer said:
			
		

> I like the names of the Culture (space) ships in Iain M. Bank's _Culture_ science fiction novels.  A list of all ship names per Wikipedia is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spacecraft_in_the_Culture_series.  The warships are those ending "OU" (offensive unit) in the Ship Type column.
> 
> Some favorites:
> _Revisionist_
> ...



Unfortunately Mr. Banks recently passed away.


----------



## Ostrozac (14 Aug 2013)

We could always take inspiration from Douglas Adams, and pick some inspirational names: "the Galactic Fleet Battleships – the GSS Daring, the GSS Audacity and the GSS Suicidal Insanity."

I always appreciated Admiral Rickover's observation on US Navy naming conventions:

_Down through history, Navy ships have been named after presidents, war heroes and famous battles. Beginning in 1931, the Navy began naming submarines after fish and “denizens of the deep,” with names such as Barracuda and Skipjack. But a famous about-face took place in 1970, when a submarine was named for William H. Bates, a congressman and staunch Navy supporter on the House Armed Services Committee. The powerful Adm. Hyman Rickover, who governed the Navy sub program with an iron fist for decades, had a pithy explanation for the change: “Fish don’t vote.” _


----------



## Privateer (14 Aug 2013)

DONT_PANIC said:
			
		

> Unfortunately Mr. Banks recently passed away.



Oh no!  He was a great writer.  A true loss.


----------



## Infanteer (14 Aug 2013)

As a landlubber Infantry guy, I'm prone to seeing names tied to ship classes.  That way, if I hear HMCS City Name, I'm pretty sure its a specific type of ship.  So, AORs, frigates, corvettes, patrol craft, subs etc all have different themes.  Perhaps Canadian battles (although that is Army heritage), famous statesmen, etc.

That being said, linking to city names brings a lot of support for a city (more than calling it Big Rock or something) - the crew of the HMCS Calgary gets a good time out of the Stampede.


----------



## chrisf (14 Aug 2013)

The coast guard has most of the arctic explorers covered, but maybe arctic islands might be good names for the AOPS? HMCS Baffin, HMCS Ellesmere, HMCS Devon, HMCS Beechey, HMCS King William, etc.

Baffin would be a good choice for the class name as well...


----------



## Michael OLeary (15 Aug 2013)

Reflecting the new reality:

_HMCS Austerity
HMCS For But Not With
HMCS Restraint_


----------



## Old Sweat (15 Aug 2013)

When the acquisition of the four Upholder class submarines was announced, I wrote a letter to the Ottawa Citizen, which made it into print. In it I suggested that ships' names refleced national attitudes and traditions, hence USS Constitution and HMS Intrepid. In line with the longstanding treatment of the forces, I recommended that the boats be named Her Majesty's Canadian Submarines Underfunded, Undermanned, Underequipped and Underpaid.


----------



## Pat in Halifax (15 Aug 2013)

There is a thread on this already but I couldn't find it after a cursory look. There has been a dedicated ship-naming committee set up for at least 2 years now. As far as I know, JSS are named and the theme for AOPS chosen. I too like the idea of the first 4 CSC being named after the old Tribals. I submitted about a year and half ago that 3 of the 4 names from the last batch (CAYUGA, MICMAC and NOOTKA) be used and then name the 4th after the old 'V' class SIOUX. Unfortunately, in  this day and age of overly PC'ness, Tribal names are unlikely. Under one of it's other 3 previous guises, CSC was tentatively to be the Province class. I am going to say we may hear more on this in the coming months for JSS and AOPS.


----------



## Underway (15 Aug 2013)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> The coast guard has most of the arctic explorers covered, but maybe arctic islands might be good names for the AOPS? HMCS Baffin, HMCS Ellesmere, HMCS Devon, HMCS Beechey, HMCS King William, etc.
> 
> Baffin would be a good choice for the class name as well...



HMCS Hans  >



			
				Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> There is a thread on this already but I couldn't find it after a cursory look. There has been a dedicated ship-naming committee set up for at least 2 years now. As far as I know, JSS are named and the theme for AOPS chosen.



There was a naming committee for the ships back in 08, but AFAIK the pushback of the ship program caused the committee to be put on hold. That doesn't mean your info is incorrect though.  Work may be done and names chosen and now we are just waiting for the official reveal.



			
				Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> I too like the idea of the first 4 CSC being named after the old Tribals. I submitted about a year and half ago that 3 of the 4 names from the last batch (CAYUGA, MICMAC and NOOTKA) be used and then name the 4th after the old 'V' class SIOUX. Unfortunately, in  this day and age of overly PC'ness, Tribal names are unlikely.



I think the opposite.  By all the listed criteria they match DHH's requirements.  Names are recognizably Canadian, they would be geographically diverse, they would hold a previous history etc...  The navy likes this sort of thing because it also connects them to the first nations, which traditionally have a great respect for the military and veterans in particular.  Done correctly it could be a PR coup for the RCN.  The V class name being mixed in also has a precedent.  HMCS Algonquin was a V Class IIRC.



			
				Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Under one of it's other 3 previous guises, CSC was tentatively to be the Province class. I am going to say we may hear more on this in the coming months for JSS and AOPS.



I'm not seeing anything but a full 10 ships being named after provinces.  A handle like HMCS Newfoundland and Labrador is a bit much.  Most likely the 11 general purpose CSC will replace the current group of Halifax class as they are paid off with the same names.  As for when we find out I agree.  I anticipate the ship names will probably be released when the new CFDS comes out after the next budget (Feb/Mar 2014).


----------



## chrisf (15 Aug 2013)

Shorten it to hmcs Newfoundland, there's already been an hmcs Labrador.


----------



## MARS (15 Aug 2013)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Shorten it to hmcs Newfoundland, there's already been an hmcs Labrador.



And there might be again - that was one of the names on the list I was presented with about three weeks ago.  As were a couple of other names of ships that had previously seen service.  The entire list ran about 50 names. I don't think it is meant fr public consumption yet so I won't be posting it here.  Sorry.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (15 Aug 2013)

HMCS NEWFOUNDLAND would be too British (well, maybe not for the current government):

HMS NEWFOUNDLAND was a Crown Colony light cruiser commissioned during WWII. She was transferred to a South-American country, Bolivia or Peru IIRC, around 1959-60, became The Admiral Grau. She was scrapped sometimes in the 1980's.

Whether it be Provinces, Territories or Cities and Towns, I have a feeling that the committees will go ahead with names of Canadian places to continue the connexion with the Canadian public begun during WWII, which they restarted with the CPFs, and continued with both the MCDVs and the "U"-Boats. An exception may be the JSS since there are no real direct past equivalent. Personally, I would hope they would use  PROVIDER, PROTECTEUR and PRESERVER for the JSS as these names were quite good at expressing exactly what those ships do for the Fleet.


----------



## Furniture (1 Sep 2013)

They should only gibe them tanker names if they draw blood from the rest of the navy, to keep with tradition....


----------



## GreenMarine (19 Sep 2013)

" a.each name should, so far as possible, be immediately recognizable as Canadian; "

HMCS Tim Hortin's , HMCS Canadian Tire , HMCS Molson....etc...

In the unlikely event the people whom name ships wanted sponsers ask the Corperations, win win, Navy gets money (and maybe some product) and the Business gets a killer billboard.


----------



## MilEME09 (19 Sep 2013)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> HMCS NEWFOUNDLAND would be too British (well, maybe not for the current government):
> 
> HMS NEWFOUNDLAND was a Crown Colony light cruiser commissioned during WWII. She was transferred to a South-American country, Bolivia or Peru IIRC, around 1959-60, became The Admiral Grau. She was scrapped sometimes in the 1980's.
> 
> Whether it be Provinces, Territories or Cities and Towns, I have a feeling that the committees will go ahead with names of Canadian places to continue the connexion with the Canadian public begun during WWII, which they restarted with the CPFs, and continued with both the MCDVs and the "U"-Boats. An exception may be the JSS since there are no real direct past equivalent. Personally, I would hope they would use  PROVIDER, PROTECTEUR and PRESERVER for the JSS as these names were quite good at expressing exactly what those ships do for the Fleet.



I don't know if you can make the too british argument when four ships in the royal navy have sported the name HMS Canada, including a WWI battleship


----------

