# 2021-2022 OFFICER PRODUCTION PLANS FOR TRAINED REGULAR FORCE NCMS



## Drallib

Making this thread again for those who have questions or for when people begin to recieve offers.

Good luck to all applying this year!

I'll be applying for Pilot (again) through CEOTP and working on my remaining university courses to apply for UTPNCM also.


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## Cardinal177

Good idea. 

BUT should we not move this thread under “Military Administration - Occupational and Component Transfers” ??

That’s where you’ll find more closely related threads than here as “recruiting” and “ROTP”.


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## Drallib

Cardinal177 said:
			
		

> Good idea.
> 
> BUT should we not move this thread under “Military Administration - Occupational and Component Transfers” ??
> 
> That’s where you’ll find more closely related threads than here as “recruiting” and “ROTP”.



Agreed. Not sure I know how to do that or if I'm able to.


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## Cardinal177

Moderators can do that I’m sure.  :dontfeedmods: ff topic:


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## PuckChaser

We've always kept the officer production yearly threads in the RMC area as traditionally those programs led to RMC schooling. There's really not a nice and clean area to have it, but we can look at sorting it out in the future. Its realistically only 1 megathread a year so it doesn't take away from the RMC content.


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## Drallib

I went through this process last year, but I forget exactly how I passed everything up...

Specfically with the 4495, I got my supervisor to write a Supervisor's Assessment, I enetered it in, printed the entire 4495, and passed it up the COC. Looking at my 4495 from last year, the CO wrote his assessment electronically... but I never saw what he wrote until I requested to see it from the Orderly Room last month. So how does he gain access to it? The BPSO?

Confusing, sorry, but I just want clarification on this (even though I did it last year too).

FYI, I did call the PSO extension, left a message yesterday, called again today, no answer.


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## garb811

Drallib said:
			
		

> I went through this process last year, but I forget exactly how I passed everything up...
> 
> Specfically with the 4495, I got my supervisor to write a Supervisor's Assessment, I enetered it in, printed the entire 4495, and passed it up the COC. Looking at my 4495 from last year, the CO wrote his assessment electronically... but I never saw what he wrote until I requested to see it from the Orderly Room last month. So how does he gain access to it? The BPSO?
> 
> Confusing, sorry, but I just want clarification on this (even though I did it last year too).
> 
> FYI, I did call the PSO extension, left a message yesterday, called again today, no answer.


What do you mean, "How does he gain access to it? The BPSO?" Are you asking how your CO gets access to the 4495 so he can enter his comments electronically?  It's probable that someone along the chain scanned it, then simply used the Adobe comment tool to add the CO's comments and then he signed it electronically or whatever.

Why wouldn't you just submit the entire form electronically to start with? Makes everyone's life so much easier at every step of the process since the form is specifically designed to allow that very process.


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## Drallib

garb811 said:
			
		

> What do you mean, "How does he gain access to it? The BPSO?" Are you asking how your CO gets access to the 4495 so he can enter his comments electronically?  It's probable that someone along the chain scanned it, then simply used the Adobe comment tool to add the CO's comments and then he signed it electronically or whatever.
> 
> Why wouldn't you just submit the entire form electronically to start with? Makes everyone's life so much easier at every step of the process since the form is specifically designed to allow that very process.



They just called back. Said to just fill out my portion, send up COC with other required docs, and they can just fill the hardcopy.

It has to be sent up with a memo, so I didn't want to send some things hardcopy, some things electronically. Just simpler to print it all and fill it out in my opinion.


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## Moon

Anybody have seen the SIP scoreboard for this year?

What are you applying for?

Any suggestion to make an application competitive?


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## Drallib

Moon said:
			
		

> Anybody have seen the SIP scoreboard for this year?
> 
> What are you applying for?
> 
> Any suggestion to make an application competitive?



The scorecard for this year is up if you search SIP Scorecard on the DWAN defense search (SWS).

I'm applying for Pilot through UTPNCM and CEOTP this year.

Your competitiveness is scored from your CFAT (CFAST for PLT, AEC, ACSO), your interview, and your personality score (weighed in order from highest to lowest).


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## Moon

What was your previous trade? Do you have any idea what airframe you want to fly?

Since my CFAT is competitive and I have no control on my personality score, do you have any idea of what are the categories of the interview, how you can prepare for it and what types of actions you can take to have a better file.

Thank you very much.

I hope your process goes well,


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## Moon

The SIP scoreboard on dwan is for 2019/2020 however


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## Drallib

Moon said:
			
		

> What was your previous trade? Do you have any idea what airframe you want to fly?
> 
> Since my CFAT is competitive and I have no control on my personality score, do you have any idea of what are the categories of the interview, how you can prepare for it and what types of actions you can take to have a better file.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> I hope your process goes well,



I'm an Aircraft Structures Technician and if selected for Pilot I'd like to fly Griffons but I'm open to anything.

I'm not allowed to share questions asked during the interview, but just know the trade you're applying to, and don't stress too much. It's just a conversation for them to get to know you and if you're suitable or not. 

You'll be fine!  :nod:


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## Drallib

Moon said:
			
		

> The SIP scoreboard on dwan is for 2019/2020 however



Go to the 1 Wing page.

In the search box on the top right enter "SIP Scorecard".

Click the "SWS" tab above the results.

Sort by date.

The most recent link, "14 - FY 20-21 Reg F SIP Scorecard - end Jul 20" is what I think you're looking for.


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## Moon

Drallib said:
			
		

> I'm an Aircraft Structures Technician and if selected for Pilot I'd like to fly Griffons but I'm open to anything.
> 
> I'm not allowed to share questions asked during the interview, but just know the trade you're applying to, and don't stress too much. It's just a conversation for them to get to know you and if you're suitable or not.
> 
> You'll be fine!  :nod:



Nice I am not stressed. I really just want to put every chance on my side.

I hope everything work for you!


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## Moon

Drallib said:
			
		

> Go to the 1 Wing page.
> 
> In the search box on the top right enter "SIP Scorecard".
> 
> Click the "SWS" tab above the results.
> 
> Sort by date.
> 
> The most recent link, "14 - FY 20-21 Reg F SIP Scorecard - end Jul 20" is what I think you're looking for.



I honestly just look and search that way for 30 min with any combination of SIP score card  and only found the one from last year unfortunately.


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## Cardinal177

Moon said:
			
		

> I honestly just look and search that way for 30 min with any combination of SIP score card  and only found the one from last year unfortunately.



So the scorecard has been updated showing FY20-21 intake figures (NCMs commissioning this summer) but the SIP for FY21-22 isn't out yet. As briefed by PSO, an initial version may come out shortly with a revision in December in preparation for the January-March 2021 selection boards.


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## Drallib

So I did a little digging and found the non-selection message for UTPNCM from 2019 and 2020 and compared it to the amount of people selected for UTPNCM to get an idea of a percentage of offers based on the number of applicants.

In 2019 there were 25 offers given for UTPNCM and 78 non-selections. 25/103 (offers/total applicants) is *24.2%*

In 2020 there were 56 offers given for UTPNCM and 92 non-selections. 56/148 (offers/total applicants) is *37.8%*


Obviously with COVID, everything is up in the air at this point, but I just wanted to share this with anyone who was curious.


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## Drallib

I just read (I don't know if I'm allowed to share the link or not) that the RCAF will not be sending candidates to Seneca college as of September 2021 due to a reduction in hiring this year from COVID and expected to carry forward to the next two to three years. 

I wonder if this means more selection from within the Forces for Pilot?


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## Drallib

So even before COVID, the RCAF was reducing Pilot intake to reduce the number of candidates on BTL. Folks would wait longer for training than the training itself.
Seneca candidates are priority loaded on flight training and are loaded ahead of DEO candidates and RMC graduates who have already been waiting 8-9 months.

Phase II normally has a capacity of 112 starts but will be reduced to 55 in a COVID environment. As of this month there are 216 candidates awaiting Phase II. The average wait time is 24 months following Phase I (expected to rise to greater than 30 months.

Significant SIP reductions are required in order to contain the BTL and restore optimal wait times for training

*With ROTP, DEO and In-Service Selection are already at historical lows, CEOTP is the logical program to reduce. As CEOTP is already at the viable minimum, it is recommended to close for the FY 20/21 year.*


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## Cardinal177

I'm hoping they leave the UTPNCM SIP the same as last year for pilot then. I'm in complete understanding of slashing the external CEOTP intake but not the internal one as candidates don't take priority over others like Seneca's do. 

That said, today was the deadline as per the CFG. And the wait time begins.....


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## Drallib

Cardinal177 said:
			
		

> I'm hoping they leave the UTPNCM SIP the same as last year for pilot then. I'm in complete understanding of slashing the external CEOTP intake but not the internal one as candidates don't take priority over others like Seneca's do.
> 
> That said, today was the deadline as per the CFG. And the wait time begins.....



I think the big problem with Internal CEOTP was folks not obtaining a university degree in time.

The CANFORGEN came out late and the deadline was earlier. I wonder if that means there will be less applicants this year.

Speaking of Strategic Intake Plans... when does the forecasted SIP come out?


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## Drallib

Interview booked, 28 September.

It really seems like things are moving a lot faster this time around.


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## Drallib

I just did some researching/digging, and basically how the SIP looks going forward is a reduction in intake except from entry plans with school between enrolling and training (ROTP and UTPNCM) to combat the backlog of people awaiting training (Significant training backlogs for Pilot, ACSO, AEC, AES Op).


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## Drallib

I just completed my interview yesterday and they mentioned having to go to Toronto again to complete the Aircrew Medical, but I was granted an Air Factor A1 in January this year. Are others hearing this also?


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## Moon

How is everyone process going?


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## Drallib

Moon said:
			
		

> How is everyone process going?



Interview is done!

I got an email from the BPSO admin asking me which 3 dates work best for Aircrew Medical, but I've already received and Air Factor of A1 in January, so they're looking into that.

Other than that, still working on my final 3 university courses which have to be completed by December!


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## Drallib

I was just told that my file has moved to "Ready for Competition" for the selection board held in Dec/Jan.


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## Weinie

Good luck Dude.   ;D


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## sapper-j

My file has also been sent and awaiting the boards. What trade have you all applied for?


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## Drallib

sapper-j said:
			
		

> My file has also been sent and awaiting the boards. What trade have you all applied for?



Pilot (UTPNCM & CEOTP)


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## rmc_wannabe

Threw my hat in the ring for CFRP to Signals Officer this year.

Waiting on my Interview with the PSO. I just redid my CFAT and have my FORCE Test coming up next week. Lets see what happens!


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## Mindinmatrix

I am waiting on my CoC....haven't seen pso yet. 3rd year applying for NCS Eng.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk


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## hattrick72

Drallib said:
			
		

> Interview is done!
> 
> I got an email from the BPSO admin asking me which 3 dates work best for Aircrew Medical, but I've already received and Air Factor of A1 in January, so they're looking into that.
> 
> Other than that, still working on my final 3 university courses which have to be completed by December!



All pilots have to finish their air crew medical in Toronto is what I believe I read earlier this year.


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## rmc_wannabe

Just waiting on the interview now!


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## blacktriangle

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> Just waiting on the interview now!



Wishing you luck!


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## Drallib

hattrick72 said:
			
		

> All pilots have to finish their air crew medical in Toronto is what I believe I read earlier this year.



Hey there,

So the BPSO said my Aircrew medical from last December which gave me an Air Factor A1 is valid.

On another note, I have 2 out of 4 courses now finished and working on the final two! Still impatiently waiting on the Strategic Intake Plan for 21/22.


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## GSD

First time posting but I figured my experience would be helpful. 

I am applying for Pilot through UTPNCM for 2021. Application has been completed, interview and medical all complete and my package was sent to the boards according to my PSO. I was basically already told that my package isn't as competitive due to my CFAT scores being "average". Has anyone experienced similar sentiment from PSO's? I assumed the CFAST testing would looked at over my CFAT scores but maybe I'm wrong. 

Just a background, I have 48 University credits and have applied only to the University of Manitoba. Good Luck to those that have applied, I know last year only 5 were selected for the UTPNCM route.


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## hattrick72

What was your CFAT score?


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## Drallib

GSD said:
			
		

> First time posting but I figured my experience would be helpful.
> 
> I am applying for Pilot through UTPNCM for 2021. Application has been completed, interview and medical all complete and my package was sent to the boards according to my PSO. I was basically already told that my package isn't as competitive due to my CFAT scores being "average". Has anyone experienced similar sentiment from PSO's? I assumed the CFAST testing would looked at over my CFAT scores but maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> Just a background, I have 48 University credits and have applied only to the University of Manitoba. Good Luck to those that have applied, I know last year only 5 were selected for the UTPNCM route.



Thanks for sharing GSD.

I heard similarly from the PSO that my CFAT was my 'weakness' but they heard they do consider the CFAST. How much, I'm not sure. I scored 38th Percentile for Officers. I'm hoping they look at the CFAST. If they want successful Pilots during Flight Training, that would make logical sense than selecting people who scored high on the CFAT because they read a thesaurus growing up (not serious). Then again, people on the CFAST who didn't do well may complain because they didn't know how to build a house......... (anyone who hasn't done the CFAST is probably scratching their heads and anyone who has done the CFAST is probably crying)

From what they told me, my personality and interview score were both very strong. I currently have Microeconomics and Macroeconomics completed, with a final essay to complete in Business Ethics and a final exam and assignment for Principles of Marketing. I'll submit all my grades to the BPSO for them to send to Ottawa on 29 JAN 21 and then the game of waiting begins.

I applied to the Royal Military College in Kingston, ON and also to Crandall University in Moncton, NB.


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## Drallib

I hope everyone enjoys their Christmas Leave! I still have a few days of studying, a Marketing Report, final exam, and Business Ethics essay. Then let the waiting begin!


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## JF49

Best of luck on your exams! I just finished my last exam yesterday. Waiting on to hear if I get an offer, which I guess could be as early as January or as late as April. 
Keep us posted and happy holidays!


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## Drallib

JF49 said:
			
		

> Best of luck on your exams! I just finished my last exam yesterday. Waiting on to hear if I get an offer, which I guess could be as early as January or as late as April.
> Keep us posted and happy holidays!



The BPSO told me the marks aren't sent to Ottawa until 29 JAN 2021, and then the board will sit and confirm the applicants' files are complete before sending out offers, so I would expect offers to be sent between March/April.

Good job finishing your last exam! Best of luck to you.


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## hattrick72

Drallib said:


> The BPSO told me the marks aren't sent to Ottawa until 29 JAN 2021, and then the board will sit and confirm the applicants' files are complete before sending out offers, so I would expect offers to be sent between March/April.
> 
> Good job finishing your last exam! Best of luck to you.


Any word on if the board sat already?


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## JF49

Yeah I am curious as well if they have sat yet.
I am also wondering if anyone knows if it is the same board that decides for every trade? Or is it a different board meeting for each trade?


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## hattrick72

JF49 said:


> Yeah I am curious as well if they have sat yet.
> I am also wondering if anyone knows if it is the same board that decides for every trade? Or is it a different board meeting for each trade?


I believe it is one board and you are racked and stacked in a single group.


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## Boot292

Mindinmatrix said:


> I am waiting on my CoC....haven't seen pso yet. 3rd year applying for NCS Eng.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk


I am applying for NCS Eng as well. what is your current trade? Good luck.


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## GSD

I’m in the same boat as most of you now, just waiting for a rejection or accept an offer. As I mentioned in an earlier post I’m not holding my breath due to my CFAST scores not being highly competitive but we will see.
I’ve tried searching for SIP numbers as well for 2021 with no joy. But no biggie, best of luck to all that have applied!


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## GSD

hattrick72 said:


> What was your CFAT score?


I believe my score was 44, I can’t fully remember. I think I was told I’m 50th percentile


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## Mindinmatrix

Boot292 said:


> I am applying for NCS Eng as well. what is your current trade? Good luck.


W Eng Tech. Yourself? Good luck also!


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## Boot292

Mindinmatrix said:


> W Eng Tech. Yourself? Good luck also!


WENG as well. 
Anyone here anything if the board has sat or when it is scheduled?


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## sapper-j

CFRP board sat two weeks ago. If anyone hears of offers going out please post!


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## Drallib

sapper-j said:


> CFRP board sat two weeks ago. If anyone hears of offers going out please post!


All the competition boards? That’s nice to hear. Historically I think the first round of offers are late March, then mid April and finally early May.


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## sapper-j

Drallib said:


> All the competition boards? That’s nice to hear. Historically I think the first round of offers are late March, then mid April and finally early May.


Im unsure about all competition boards but I do know for a fact the CFRP board sat Feb 15 - 19.


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## jside86

I see a lot of ASCO and Pilot, anyone else applying for Log O this year?


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## Boot292

sapper-j said:


> Im unsure about all competition boards but I do know for a fact the CFRP board sat Feb 15 - 19.


How did you find out those dates? I asked the BPSO if they knew when the boards would sit and they just said best guess was sometime in Feb or March


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## Drallib

Boot292 said:


> How did you find out those dates? I asked the BPSO if they knew when the boards would sit and they just said best guess was sometime in Feb or March


For the CFR competition I saw these dates searching on the DWAN.


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## Sgt_Bloggins

Is the SIP Score card a reliable source for numbers? The latest one I found was current as of 28 Feb 21, and the intake results for the trade I applied for, is below 100% of what is forecasted. Is it safe to assume that potentially everyone who applied would be picked up since they are below the forecasted intake number?


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## Boot292

Sgt_Bloggins said:


> Is the SIP Score card a reliable source for numbers? The latest one I found was current as of 28 Feb 21, and the intake results for the trade I applied for, is below 100% of what is forecasted. Is it safe to assume that potentially everyone who applied would be picked up since they are below the forecasted intake number?


You have to look at the internal intake. Depending on which program you applied for. For example I am applying for UTPNCM NCS Eng and even though they are not at 100% the SIP Scorecard says they are only taking 2 for the fiscal year under UTPNCM. 

I do not know if these are hard and fast numbers tho.


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## JF49

Boot292 said:


> You have to look at the internal intake. Depending on which program you applied for. For example I am applying for UTPNCM NCS Eng and even though they are not at 100% the SIP Scorecard says they are only taking 2 for the fiscal year under UTPNCM.
> 
> I do not know if these are hard and fast numbers tho.


Hi there, is there a way to find out what it is for the ROTP program?


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## Boot292

JF49 said:


> Hi there, is there a way to find out what it is for the ROTP program?


Yes it is on the same scorecard but if you are asking for ROTP I assume you don't have access to the DWAN? What trade are you looking for ?


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## JF49

Boot292 said:


> Yes it is on the same scorecard but if you are asking for ROTP I assume you don't have access to the DWAN? What trade are you looking for ?


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## Sgt_Bloggins

Boot292 said:


> You have to look at the internal intake. Depending on which program you applied for. For example I am applying for UTPNCM NCS Eng and even though they are not at 100% the SIP Scorecard says they are only taking 2 for the fiscal year under UTPNCM.
> 
> I do not know if these are hard and fast numbers tho.


That’s what I mean the delta is not 100% so say they are taking 10 DEO but only got 2, what’s the likelihood they will pull from other competition to meet their overall intake they have forecasted


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## Boot292

Sgt_Bloggins said:


> That’s what I mean the delta is not 100% so say they are taking 10 DEO but only got 2, what’s the likelihood they will pull from other competition to meet their overall intake they have forecasted


Oh I see what you mean. I have heard rumors about them doing this but only rumors. If anyone on here knows the actual answer to this I would love to know as well.


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## PuckChaser

Folks, just your friendly annual reminder that the data on the SIP is on the DWAN for a reason. Unless you're the originator or have the permission of the originator, you're not permitted to put it on an UNCLASS public internet forum. We've had a few issues with it before.

I'll take my ISSO hat off now... good luck to everyone that applied this year. May the odds forever be in your favour.


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## Cardinal177

Sgt_Bloggins said:


> Is the SIP Score card a reliable source for numbers? The latest one I found was current as of 28 Feb 21, and the intake results for the trade I applied for, is below 100% of what is forecasted. Is it safe to assume that potentially everyone who applied would be picked up since they are below the forecasted intake number?


 Hey Sgt_Bloggins, I'm afraid you're talking about the same scorecard I found but it's for FY20-21. Non-selection messages have been out since last summer for in-svc selection. I also don't think any FY21-22 SIP numbers have been agreed to yet - at least not publicly which I find strange since Apr 1st is around the corner. By this time last year, some CFRP offers were already out...waiting is painful!


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## Sgt_Bloggins

PuckChaser said:


> Folks, just your friendly annual reminder that the data on the SIP is on the DWAN for a reason. Unless you're the originator or have the permission of the originator, you're not permitted to put it on an UNCLASS public internet forum. We've had a few issues with it before.
> 
> I'll take my ISSO hat off now... good luck to everyone that applied this year. May the odds forever be in your favour.


Tracking, and numbers I used were just fictitious for that reason.


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## jman579

JF49 said:


> Hi there, is there a way to find out what it is for the ROTP program?


ROTP has not issued any offers yet, early offers will  start to go out around the last week of March (Source: Asked a recruiter). Therefore I don't think they will have any data referring to the amount of people they took in for each trade via rotp as of yet for this fiscal year. I assume you're asking this question because you want to know how competitive it will be to get into rotp for your desired trade? Also, what trade did you aplly for?


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## JF49

Boot292 said:


> Yes it is on the same scorecard but if you are asking for ROTP I assume you don't have access to the DWAN? What trade are you looking for ?





jman579 said:


> ROTP has not issued any offers yet, early offers will  start to go out around the last week of March (Source: Asked a recruiter). Therefore I don't think they will have any data referring to the amount of people they took in for each trade via rotp as of yet for this fiscal year. I assume you're asking this question because you want to know how competitive it will be to get into rotp for your desired trade? Also, what trade did you aplly for?


Hey there, thanks for the info! I applied to be a pharm O. How about yourself?


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## jman579

JF49 said:


> Hey there, thanks for the info! I applied to be a pharm O. How about yourself?


Pharmacy officer is a pretty cool trade, congrats bro! I applied to ROTP as a signal officer.  Earlier you were asking about the intake amount of candidates for rotp regarding your trade. I wouldn't be super nervous about that if I were you, because if you made if this far in the application process and landed yourself on the competition list, your most likely competitive and have a pretty good chance at getting accepted! Out of curiosity are you applying from university or are you in grade12/CEGEP (final year)?


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## JF49

Yeah fingers crossed! Best of luck for your application as well! 
I'm applying from university. I think almost every Pharmacy program I have looked into needs at least 2 years of university credits.


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## sapper-j

I just heard some OVOTP messages have come out.


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## hattrick72

I wonder if this is earlier than most years or on par.


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## Boot292

I have been told from a credible source that UTPNCM offers will start coming out in 1-2 weeks.


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## jside86

Still no news as of today. PSOs are very helpful answering all the questions I had. Unfortunately when they send the application to Ottawa, they lose visibility on the process.

For myself, I have applied for for LogO (somehow I like accounting) and SigO. I had to rewrite my CFAT, but was told I was in the 93 percentile for Officers. Also, I have asked for a waiver for Athabasca University, which was approved sometime is February.

I think my Language profile will also play a minor role, PLQ and time-in should also help.

Currently have 15 courses done with a GPA of 3.54/4 and 25 until graduation, all depending on which degree I finish.

This my first attempt at UTPNCM, I believe I have a strong file, and have not heard about anyone else applying for Log or Sigs(UTPNCM).

I really wish the ILP was still a thing, I just registered for another course with Athabasca out of pocket (I need to keep doing courses!).

I'll keep updating here, and keep my finger crossed for LogO!

How's everyone dealing with the selection so far?


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## Boot292

Sounds like you have a pretty strong file. I know that Log O has been very hard to get into in the past few years but with a very competitive file its anyone's game. Waiting sucks but we will here something soon.


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## Sgt_Bloggins

Is there somewhere on the DWAN you can find who sits on each board? Not name, but position? Example, if you're applying to SigO, or LogO is there anyone from that trade reviewing the quality of the candidates?


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## GSD

Sgt_Bloggins said:


> Is there somewhere on the DWAN you can find who sits on each board? Not name, but position? Example, if you're applying to SigO, or LogO is there anyone from that trade reviewing the quality of the candidates?


To be honest I think it’s just a straight up rack and stack. It was explained to me that way by the PSO anyways. Merits or the actual recommendations in your application don’t even get looked at unless it’s a paper thin difference between two candidates. If you have a high CFAT score you’ll be close to the top with that alone. I know of several less that stellar NCMs that received offers for various officer entry programs, it’s unfortunate but for in service selection it doesn’t seem like much else is considered by way of annual PERs or current job ability etc.


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## Drallib

GSD said:


> To be honest I think it’s just a straight up rack and stack. It was explained to me that way by the PSO anyways. Merits or the actual recommendations in your application don’t even get looked at unless it’s a paper thin difference between two candidates. If you have a high CFAT score you’ll be close to the top with that alone. I know of several less that stellar NCMs that received offers for various officer entry programs, it’s unfortunate but for in service selection it doesn’t seem like much else is considered by way of annual PERs or current job ability etc.


I was told that CO's recommendations are looked at closely. You can be book smarts, but they want to see if they can act like an Officer. 

I was also told that the Aircrew Selection Score is looked at for applicants requiring that test.

So many things are unknown. Good luck everyone. Shouldn't be long now.


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## Mindinmatrix

Crickets everywhere. I hate this time of the year. Good luck everyone!


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## Cardinal177

CFRP offers are rolling. Good luck all.


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## Boot292

Cardinal177 said:


> CFRP offers are rolling. Good luck all.


Did you get an offer?


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## Cardinal177

Someone I know did.


----------



## ipokesnails

Same here, a friend of mine got a CFR offer for AERE.


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## jside86

Got my offer today!


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## Mindinmatrix

Me to! Good luck everyone.


----------



## Mindinmatrix

jside86 said:


> Got my offer today!


Me too UTPNCM. Good Luck everyone!


----------



## Cardinal177

Congrats to both of you, what program and occupation if you feel like sharing?


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## Mindinmatrix

Cardinal177 said:


> Congrats to both of you, what program and occupation if you feel like sharing?


NCS ENG, UTPNCM


----------



## jside86

Cardinal177 said:


> Congrats to both of you, what program and occupation if you feel like sharing?


Log O Land, UTPNCM, with Athabasca university Bachelor of Commerce.

Posted 18 Aug 21 to the BTL.


----------



## Boot292

Mindinmatrix said:


> Me to! Good luck everyone.


Congrats!! What school are you going to?


----------



## Mindinmatrix

Boot292 said:


> Congrats!! What school are you going to?


Athabasca University B. SC. In computing and information systems. I got a year left....I've been part time ILP for 3 ish years. Been a though go with balancing life, work and school.


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## rw1988

Congrats on your offers! I'm waiting out on an offer for PSO but no news yet. Will this SIP thing tell me if they're even taking any PSOs this year?


----------



## Drallib

jside86 said:


> Got my offer today!





Mindinmatrix said:


> Me too UTPNCM. Good Luck everyone!



Can you two share if you received your offers through your work email, civilian email, or both? I’m on paternity leave currently. I’ll probably go in tomorrow morning and check my emails.


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## Mindinmatrix

Drallib said:


> Can you two share if you received your offers through your work email, civilian email, or both? I’m on paternity leave currently. I’ll probably go in tomorrow morning and check my emails.


Both civi and work for me.


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## MasterPteBloggins

Does anyone know if they all come out at once? I understand that there are rounds of offers, but if someone hasn't received one yet it's safe to assume you won't for this first round then?
Thanks


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## Boot292

I don't think you can assume that. It seems that the rounds come out over a period of at least a couple of days


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## GSD

I was told by mid-April by my PSO, watch and shoot.


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## MJP

MasterPteBloggins said:


> Does anyone know if they all come out at once? I understand that there are rounds of offers, but if someone hasn't received one yet it's safe to assume you won't for this first round then?
> Thanks


It takes time to punch out all the messages, so I wouldn't assume that at all.  Have seen them flow into a unit's/base's +acct over a few weeks when it comes to first round of offers


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## Boot292

Just accepted my offer for UTPNCM NCS Eng. will be going to Dalhousie. My offer came to work email only.


----------



## hattrick72

Boot292 said:


> Just accepted my offer for UTPNCM NCS Eng. will be going to Dalhousie. My offer came to work email only.


What program are you taking at Dalhousie?


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## Boot292

hattrick72 said:


> What program are you taking at Dalhousie?


Electrical engineering


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## Boot292

Should I be expecting a confirmation of my acceptance?


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## Drallib

Boot292 said:


> Just accepted my offer for UTPNCM NCS Eng. will be going to Dalhousie. My offer came to work email only.


Thanks for sharing this info! Congrats


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## Sgt_Bloggins

Offer for CFRP ENGR came in DWAN only


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## Boot292

Sgt_Bloggins said:


> Offer for CFRP ENGR came in DWAN only


Congratulations


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## JRBond

Has anyone heard anything yet WRT an OT via M Plans (ie Med/Pharm/Legal/etc)?


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## MasterInstructor

Anybody got SCP Offers? I am hoping for LogO - Sea


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## rw1988

Has anyone had access to the SIP and seen if PSOs are a go this year? I'm in isolation so I can't dig around quite yet


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## jside86

Boot292 said:


> Should I be expecting a confirmation of my acceptance?


Wondering the same thing, mostly because of the 10 days limits to send the acceptance/refusal.

I have sent my acceptance the same day, CC'ed my OR, my civilian email and my CoC. 

There is also the fact that most people/units are on leave this week which might make reply slower.

Also, I don't think it will have an impact on the offers, but user Mindinmatrix also noticed an error in the date on his offer, which is also on my offer for the university start date. 

Good to know other people are also getting offers, good luck to everyone else!

​


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## Boot292

jside86 said:


> Wondering the same thing, mostly because of the 10 days limits to send the acceptance/refusal.
> 
> I have sent my acceptance the same day, CC'ed my OR, my civilian email and my CoC.
> 
> There is also the fact that most people/units are on leave this week which might make reply slower.
> 
> Also, I don't think it will have an impact on the offers, but user Mindinmatrix also noticed an error in the date on his offer, which is also on my offer for the university start date.
> 
> Good to know other people are also getting offers, good luck to everyone else!
> 
> ​


I talked with PSO today and they said they normally don't get back right away because they are busy getting all the messages out and they might not actually get back to you. You can ask your ULO office if they have your file yet. But I had the same mistake so I asked them to clarify in my email. I also sent with delivery and read receipts.


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## ipokesnails

Got my offer for CEOTP - Pilot!
Sent to DWAN email and Civvy email.


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## MasterInstructor

ipokesnails said:


> Got my offer for CEOTP - Pilot!
> Sent to DWAN email and Civvy email.


Did you get it today?


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## ipokesnails

MasterInstructor said:


> Did you get it today?


This morning around 11:00


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## vroom

Rec'd a CEOTP offer for AOO yesterday! It only took me 7 years and 2 CFAT rewrites. Prior to this I've applied to LOG, AEC, INT & HCA. AOO is far more in line with my NCM job and I'm happy to start in a brand new MOSID.


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## Mindinmatrix

Congrats. I've had similar challenges. Worth the wait! I wish you well on your future endeavors!


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## rw1988

I wonder if they cut all the different commissioning plan messages at once or one at a time? Basically if I haven't heard on utpncm yet and they're cutting CEOTP if I should just let the dream die haha it is my first year applying so I haven't had high hopes regardless


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## vroom

rw1988 said:


> I wonder if they cut all the different commissioning plan messages at once or one at a time? Basically if I haven't heard on utpncm yet and they're cutting CEOTP if I should just let the dream die haha it is my first year applying so I haven't had high hopes regardless


Messages just started dropping so don't lose hope but be realistic. Your CFAT makes up a huge part of the package so have a look at your percentile and see how competitive that is. PSO should tell you if you have a strong score from the interview etc..., but in the end it all comes down to who applied. I've only 6 courses left on my degree, and not sure how much that counts at the board.

In prior years all my non-selection emails came around May'ish.


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## rw1988

vroom said:


> Messages just started dropping so don't lose hope but be realistic. Your CFAT makes up a huge part of the package so have a look at your percentile and see how competitive that is. PSO should tell you if you have a strong score from the interview etc..., but in the end it all comes down to who applied.
> 
> In prior years all my non-selection emails came around May'ish.


PSO said my CFAT was good to go. I want to say 85th percentile or something like that? But since they take so few PSOs a year it is hard to say. Fingers crossed!


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## vroom

rw1988 said:


> PSO said my CFAT was good to go. I want to say 85th percentile or something like that? But since they take so few PSOs a year it is hard to say. Fingers crossed!


That's a pretty high percentile!


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## MJP

vroom said:


> That's a pretty high percentile!


It is a small trade so they can afford to be selective


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## a337yi

I got SCP offer on 25 Mar to both DWAN and civilian e-mail. Good luck to everyone!


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## rw1988

MJP said:


> It is a small trade so they can afford to be selective.


Very selective. I don't see myself getting a higher cfat so I'll just reapply next year and hope for the best.


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## MasterInstructor

a337yi said:


> I got SCP offer on 25 Mar to both DWAN and civilian e-mail. Good luck to everyone!


For what trade?


----------



## LurkyTheLurker

UTPNCM today DWAN and CIV

Incase others are getting concerned because they didn't get them the first week.


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## rw1988

LurkyTheLurker said:


> UTPNCM today DWAN and CIV


Congrats!


----------



## Drallib

LurkyTheLurker said:


> UTPNCM today DWAN and CIV
> 
> Incase others are getting concerned because they didn't get them the first week.


Congrats! What trade?


----------



## AceOfSpades

rw1988 said:


> Has anyone had access to the SIP and seen if PSOs are a go this year? I'm in isolation so I can't dig around quite yet


Did you find out if they are taking any this year? Or where I can look? I got a fairly high CFAT and I haven’t heard anything yet either.


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## vroom

Has anyone rec'd an acknowledgement of their acceptance?


----------



## Mindinmatrix

vroom said:


> Has anyone rec'd an acknowledgement of their acceptance?


It takes time. Cost moves are first, then local postings to ULOs. Be patient, there is only 2 or 3 people working on this in Ottawa. Congrats on the offer nonetheless


----------



## MasterInstructor

Anybody heard of SCP LOG yet? I am starting to loose hope and looking at other options... I have been trying to cmomission for 5 years now. 3  UTPNCM rejections... Ended up finishing my degree on my own time and applied for SCP this year.


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## Sgt_Bloggins

vroom said:


> Has anyone rec'd an acknowledgement of their acceptance?


Acceptance received, and promoted/posted effective 15 Apr 21


----------



## ipokesnails

vroom said:


> Has anyone rec'd an acknowledgement of their acceptance?


It took 8 days to receive my acknowledgement email 😬


----------



## MasterPteBloggins

When do non selection messages come out? Does anybody know?


----------



## Drallib

How long does it take for offers to be sent out? Do the send them all at once usually? Or is it spread out? I was told offers go out late March, then mid April, and lastly early May (3 rounds).


----------



## AceOfSpades

MasterPteBloggins said:


> When do non selection messages come out? Does anybody know?


To piggy back off this, do they add any information as to why you were not selected? Or is it more so of a “you didn’t make it, try again next year”?


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## vroom

AceOfSpades said:


> To piggy back off this, do they add any information as to why you were not selected? Or is it more so of a “you didn’t make it, try again next year”?



You won't get anything in a message saying why you weren't selected. It's standard template fare. 

In the past all my non-selection messages came around May-June timeframe.


----------



## MasterPteBloggins

vroom said:


> You won't get anything in a message saying why you weren't selected. It's standard template fare


Thanks.


----------



## AceOfSpades

vroom said:


> You won't get anything in a message saying why you weren't selected. It's standard template fare.
> 
> In the past all my non-selection messages came around May-June timeframe.


Thankfully this is one of the few true meritocratic practices in the CF so if I didn’t get it means the other person was a better fit. Unfortunately doesn’t help my paranoid mind that thinks only of nefarious actions or negligence on other peoples part. It sounds silly but things like background deals or typos in a file are some of my worries.


----------



## rw1988

Question- does anyone know if you require a 4 year BA or a 3 year BA to commission? Specifically Log. Everything I've found just says "bachelor's degree" which a 3 year still technically is.


----------



## SupersonicMax

I know a loggie with a 3-year degree.  She went through UTPNCM.  Beware that you would not be eligible for the Masters degree coming from the Joint Command and Staff Programme if you make it there.


----------



## rw1988

SupersonicMax said:


> I know a loggie with a 3-year degree.  She went through UTPNCM.  Beware that you would not be eligible for the Masters degree coming from the Joint Command and Staff Programme if you make it there.


Pft at this point I'm just hoping to commission and I'll upgrade the rest once ILP is a thing again. I think the 35k debt I put myself in is enough for now lol


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## SupersonicMax

rw1988 said:


> Pft at this point I'm just hoping to commission and I'll upgrade the rest once ILP is a thing again. I think the 35k debt I put myself in is enough for now lol


The JCSP Masters is subsidized.


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## rw1988

SupersonicMax said:


> The JCSP Masters is subsidized.


Sorry I mean the additional year of school to complete a 4 year degree


----------



## LurkyTheLurker

Anyone have an expected timeline between offer acceptance and posting message for UTP?  We push summer leave early in my unit so I keep getting asked and don't know how much I will be expected to keep/ burn.


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## PuckChaser

Its a simple memo to cancel your summer leave, much easier than trying to guess an offer date.


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## Cardinal177

LurkyTheLurker said:


> Anyone have an expected timeline between offer acceptance and posting message for UTP?  We push summer leave early in my unit so I keep getting asked and don't know how much I will be expected to keep/ burn.


It depends on when your schooling starts.


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## Darn

LurkyTheLurker said:


> Anyone have an expected timeline between offer acceptance and posting message for UTP?  We push summer leave early in my unit so I keep getting asked and don't know how much I will be expected to keep/ burn.


I received my posting message today for UTPNCM. 

The message indicates that the member must have no more than 10 days annual leave remaining prior the beginning of the studies.


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## BFH

Are offers still trickling in? Applied for Log O... haven't heard anything back yet. Are the non-selection messages emailed directly to the applicant?


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## GSD

BFH said:


> Are offers still trickling in? Applied for Log O... haven't heard anything back yet. Are the non-selection messages emailed directly to the app


I doubt they’re still coming in but you never know. Usually a non-selection message will come out in July, sent to all applicants at once.


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## jside86

Received my posting message last week and an email from subsidised education management (SEM) today. 

Things are getting along well so far, looking forward to start full time this fall!


----------



## Slunty

I emailed pso yesterday. They said I’m still on the competition list. So not sure what exactly that’s means.


----------



## BFH

Hmm that's interesting, I don't know what it means either but from the DGMC DWAN site on UTPNCM it says offers are usually made in the April/May time frame, which makes senses as postings may be required and the member needs to down to 10 days annual remaining and ready to start school in September.  But I may shoot my local BPSO an email and see if there has been any delays etc. One of the guys on my ship received his offer on the 26th of March, 2021 for Air Operations Officer. So I guess it's anyone's guess.


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## Slunty

I’m going scp army log o. I’m honestly thinking either the lockdown in Ontario is really holding things up, or I’m getting a thanks but no thanks letter. My lt told me they were last to know when they got it and it was late may for them.


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## Cardinal177

CANFORGEN 083/21 is out now.


----------



## ssrb653

Does anyone know the target intake number for vot pilot for fy 21/22?


----------



## ssrb653

Just for clarification,  asking for OVOTP numbers for FY 22/23


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## rw1988

Has anyone ever applied for SCP with an upcoming graduation? I graduate in December and I'm not sure if that is too late for SCP?


----------



## MasterPteBloggins

Has anyone recived their non selection message yet?


----------



## rw1988

They came out last month. Just one email with a list of people not selected


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## GeoSims

rw1988 said:


> They came out last month. Just one email with a list of people not selected


That's weird, I didn't receive an offer or an email stating I didn't get selected. I have an appointment with the BPSO, will ask them about what's going on.


----------



## rw1988

Has anyone seen  a SIP for 2022? I've been looking but no luck and was hoping for some guesstimates


----------



## dapaterson

AMORs are just starting to spool up now, so 2022 SIP is still quite a ways off.

In addition, discussions about surging BMQ and DP1 training are also ongoing - without knowing intake and training capacity, you can't put together the SIP.


----------



## PatchesOhoolihan

Doesn't look like a new thread was created for 22-23 so I'm going to piggyback on this one. Was on parental for the last few months, applied for CEOTP+UTPNCM Pilot before I went on leave. Looks like offers started rolling out last year around this time ish. Just curious if anyone has heard anything, I'm trying to not to get my hopes up after not getting CEOTP last year but I redid my CFAT for this years competition and scored in the 95th percentile so I'm eager for an answer. I tried to get an appointment with a PSO to follow up on my file now that I'm back from leave but they won't see me until after the competition is over this year.


----------



## rmc_wannabe

Received and accepted my offer for CFR to Signals Officer.


----------



## MJP

rmc_wannabe said:


> Received and accepted my offer for CFR to Signals Officer.


On purpose?






Kidding congrats


----------



## blacktriangle

rmc_wannabe said:


> Received and accepted my offer for CFR to Signals Officer.


Congrats!


----------



## AVS85

What day did you receive your offer? Also, did you receive an offer to both your personal email and DWAN email? thanks


----------



## rmc_wannabe

AVS85 said:


> What day did you receive your offer? Also, did you receive an offer to both your personal email and DWAN email? thanks


I received a week ago. Went to both my personal and DWAN. They're slowly filtering through. What trades did you put in for?


----------



## AVS85

rmc_wannabe said:


> I received a week ago. Went to both my personal and DWAN. They're slowly filtering through. What trades did you put in for?


Thanks for the info. I applied UTPNCM for LOG O, Air Ops O, and Int. First year applying. CFAT was 93rd percentile for officers and did well on interview, and have done PLQ which I hope will help. I have been deployed so haven't been able to check work email. I am thinking that they may send out CFR's first, then UTPNCM, but not entirely sure on that. Either way I am checking every day in hopes I receive an offer.


----------



## Kickingsauce

AVS85 said:


> Thanks for the info. I applied UTPNCM for LOG O, Air Ops O, and Int. First year applying. CFAT was 93rd percentile for officers and did well on interview, and have done PLQ which I hope will help. I have been deployed so haven't been able to check work email. I am thinking that they may send out CFR's first, then UTPNCM, but not entirely sure on that. Either way I am checking every day in hopes I receive an offer.


----------



## rw1988

Ahhh the waiting game. I applied for log o for SCP. Nothing yet.


----------



## PatchesOhoolihan

Got an offer for UTPNCM Pilot this morning, looks like they are still slowly rolling out.


----------



## rw1988

Has anyone received an SCP offer yet?


----------



## rw1988

Got my offer for SCP today!


----------



## AVS85

PatchesOhoolihan said:


> Got an offer for UTPNCM Pilot this morning, looks like they are still slowly rolling out.


Congrats!


----------



## AVS85

rw1988 said:


> Got my offer for SCP today!


Congrats! What trade?


----------



## rw1988

AVS85 said:


> Congrats! What trade?


Log o


----------



## ssrb653

I received my offer for OVOTP pilot. Got it both on dwan and my personal email. Congratulations to everyone who got offers and good luck to the ones waiting


----------



## Chad.wiseman

rmc_wannabe said:


> I received a week ago. Went to both my personal and DWAN. They're slowly filtering through. What trades did you put in for?



what did they plar?


----------



## rmc_wannabe

Chad.wiseman said:


> what did they plar?


I PLARed BMOQ, BMOQ-A, and 2 of the 4 Mods of RQ-Sigs O- Lt.


----------



## Chad.wiseman

Thanks.  What did you have before you applied?  For example I’m a PLQ MCpl and curious what they would PLAR.  What 2 Mod’s did they PLAR and which 2 were you required to complete?  How many weeks were the remaining 2 mods?


----------

