# Special Evaluation Course PFT



## Bograt (10 May 2006)

Just got my attached posting message this morning. I am going to Portage for the Small Group Evaluation Course beginning 20 June. There are just 12 of us (4 RMC'ers).

Finally after a lifetime of waiting to join the air force, and an equivalent amount of time waiting to get on course, I am about to start my CF flying career.(I am no longer a filing cabinet mover/ or a VNC alphabetical orderer) Provided things go well, I will be off to the Jaw in January. 

I have downloaded the cockpit of the new Grob 120, and I am not sure where one puts the quarter.

:cheers:
Boggy


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## dardt (10 May 2006)

Bograt,

Good luck on your course. Be sure to report back and let all us wannabees know what it was like.


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## Astrodog (10 May 2006)

And here I am waiting for the days when i can be a filing cabinet mover/ or a VNC alphabetical orderer! Exciting stuff, good luck man...


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## TheCheez (11 May 2006)

Good luck on that, I know a few of the boys heading over and I hope y'all do well.

According to a few of the instructors that have shown up in the mess the Grob is a little less responsive, but more power and gadgets than the slingsby. Have fun!


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## PinkPanther (11 May 2006)

I got my msg too, and I'll be there on the first serial 0601.  Though the Navs will have first whack at being flown in them.  If you haven't already heard, the student flies from the right seat (to get used to center stick and RH throttle) and we will be wearing an emerg. parachute, http://www.spekon.de/fall_rettung_re-5l_eng.htm at least until Dec 31 06.

I don't know what picture you have of the cockpit, but here is the one we will be flying http://www.pbase.com/klin/portagejan2006

I also have a .pdf of the cockpit layout, but it's at work atm.


When I get back into work I'll be sure to bring the good stuff back and post it.


Also, someone has decided to go ahead a begin making patches for the first serial, I don't know who, but if you know them, be sure to pass it on that there is no "torque" gauges in the Grob, let alone any other light piston banger I know of.  http://www.dbes.ca/product_info.php?products_id=15792&sid=ea1fe638e24cb58b9308193bde7913c5


This looks to be the offical aircraft type patch http://www.dbes.ca/product_info.php?products_id=15789&sid=ea1fe638e24cb58b9308193bde7913c5


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## Crimmsy (11 May 2006)

That 0601 badge belongs to the folks on BFT 0601 here in MJ and there most assuredly is a torque gauge in the Harvard!


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## PinkPanther (11 May 2006)

Ah, well chaulk that up to an error on DBES then,  I noticed that BFT 0603's patch was incorrectly labelled, should have figured that one out on my own.


Also, do a quick search here for the 120A and you can see the reg. info for all 9.

sry forgot the link http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepages/ccarcs/en/current_e.asp#quick?x_lang=e


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## SupersonicMax (11 May 2006)

Bograt, who told you you would be in MJ in January?  I was told 14-18 months just last March.

Max


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## Bograt (12 May 2006)

...Max

The WO and Capt at Pilot Training PAT told the eight non RMCers taking part in the Special Evaluation Group that "upon successful completion of PFT we would be scheduled to go to Moose Jaw in January". My moose Jaw number is 81 as well. 1 CAD has us all listed (that is all 2Lts and above). I don't know how fellows from Hogwarts are managed.  I believe the use some kind of "sorting hat"

Slayer,

I was reading the spec pages on the G-120, and it indicated that it was a constant speed prop. Do you know if there is a throttle and prop control.

Cheers,


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## PinkPanther (12 May 2006)

Bograt said:
			
		

> I don't know how fellows from Hogwarts are managed.  I believe the use some kind of "sorting hat"
> 
> Slayer,
> 
> ...



They have actually told me over the phone that they have selected names from a hat before!!!

And yes it is constant speed and the layout is standard order from left to right - throttle, prop, mix.
(note:  it would be nice to have a copy of that checklist sitting on the dash)


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## Hot Lips (12 May 2006)

Congrats Bograt,

Sounds exciting...looks it too!!

HL


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## Bograt (12 May 2006)

Just got word, my BFT is scheduled for Oct 23 2006.

I believe the analogy that the pilot training system was a constipated cow was correct. It appears that I have just been deposited.


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## Zoomie (12 May 2006)

Oct '06 is a good date Bograt - you must be happy with that.

Good luck on the Grob.


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## Astrodog (12 May 2006)

is the wait for BFT on the decline at all or is this going to be a relatively permanent reality?


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## PinkPanther (13 May 2006)

K, here is the .pdf of the Grob cockpit
http://www.rapidsharing.com/9ed5ba7875a26c0a9d2602708a8930fa

And the only other spec info I found on it
http://www.airtraining.forces.gc.ca/training/fmt/canadawings_grobg120a_e.asp


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## TheCheez (14 May 2006)

Astrodog said:
			
		

> is the wait for BFT on the decline at all or is this going to be a relatively permanent reality?



It's always changing and about the best you're gonna get is rumour mill fodder. They're increasing class sizes now though, and getting more Canadians into said increased classes. This also has some implications with how long it could take to finish, more students with constant # of airframes kind of thing. You might also get lucky: the course starting next week is made up largely of people who were told late 2006 but because of the delays at PFT and because they've already done PFT, they got here early.

Looking further down the line increasing production at BFT just moves the bottleneck to Phase 3/OTU.


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## WO2 Gubbels (14 May 2006)

*looks on in envy, then goes and cries in his cessna*


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## ROTP Applicant (14 May 2006)

Could someone explain to me how course-loading works for BFT? I've noticed how SupersonicMax, with PFT already completed, has to wait 14-18 months for his BFT serial, while Bograt gets on BFT pretty much right after the completion of his PFT serial. Do the DEO guys get priority over the ROTP guys, or is it simply luck? Thanks in advance for the replies.


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## TheCheez (14 May 2006)

I think ROTP are scheduled as they graduate, and DEU's are scheduled either after BOTC or after SLT. Bograt was probably one of the guys who was supposed to do PFT last November and BFT sometime around now but with the handover @portage got pushed back. Those guys essentially traded places with the RMC types who were scheduled late 06 and are instead showing up now.

That's how I understand it anyway, might be wrong.


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## Zoomie (15 May 2006)

"The Cheez" is pretty close... RMC grads are entered into the Pilot Making machine upon their graduation from Charm School.  DEO grads get their number for PFT upon completion of SLT - when/if they pass their first foray through Portage, they are entered into the system for BFT.  In some cases, their placement may be augmented to reflect a training delay imparted upon them by the CF.


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## pipstah (15 May 2006)

If it can answer all your questions about timing:
Dec 04: complete BOTC
March 05: completed SLT
End of August 05: completed the last PFT with Bombardier (that was weird getting class while they were taking everything out)
October-November 05: AMT, BASIC SERE and SEA SURVIVAL
April 06: got on BFT.

About Moose Jaw: Class are running now at 13 candidates. About the last course who just came in, they are 13 in total and its 10 canadians and 3 italians. Courses interval is around I think a month down to 3 weeks like my course. Most of the RMC guys are coming this summer. About your waiting time for your next course it is depending what is your choice. If you want to go jet, I'm not 100% sure but the waiting time is very short not to say none... If you want to go helo, friends have waited around 5-10 months to get their course. The only thing that I know about the helo course it's that the glass cockpit will be in or is already in for training since we get the Cyclone. For the multi's guys, when I was doing PFT guys on multi course had wait 3 years to get a spot on the course... I hope the situation is better right now.

About PFT: Please be gentle with Speedy  ;D Watch him when you guys will play the krud game! (sorry dont know how its spelled). The Grob seems to be a real nice plane! I was sure that there was already a course in progress in Portage since I've talked to an instructor who was visiting us for a graduation and he was telling us that there was a course on.... maybe 0600?? Are you getting 'box' time now in PFT? Anyway I wish you good luck for your course!!!


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## Bograt (15 May 2006)

Cheers Pipstah,

From what I understand there is currently a serial going through, and another two beginning in June. The first couple of serials are running with the Slingby's syllabus. The Small Evaluation Course will be using the new syllabus. I may be wrong.

I don't know if we will be getting box time. 

The fellas I went through BOTP with are not slated to go to PFT until September or January. Somehow my name got pulled to go early. Based on my message, I guess there were 8 added openings for Canadians in the September and October BFT serials. Once again I got lucky.

I'm going flying this weekend in a 172. I want to get some of the dust off my log book with some upper air work, and circuits. I wonder what the right seat feels like....


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## pipstah (17 May 2006)

you will see that for the circuit it is not the same as in the civi world... if they say at that point you turn... its there you have to turn! They want you to fly a very precise circuit pattern and you will know it pretty fast when you are getting out of the pattern  ;D I'm sure the instructors could fly the pattern with their eyes closed since they have done that so many times hehe  ;D Oh in case I didnt tell you that yet... try to have fun in Portage keep a positive attitude and good luck!


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## maniac779 (4 Jun 2006)

As Zoomie stated, you begin waiting for PFT after SLT. Is that also the case if you have a PFT bypass and go straight to BFT? I imagine it would be, however can anyone confirm?

Thanks.


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## pipstah (4 Jun 2006)

About Second language training, I've seen no english pilots while they were waiting for PFT... most of the english pilots got right in PFT after a short waiting and they bypass second language training. Maybe they will have to do the course after they got their wings... My friend skipped the SLT and PFT...he got in BFT just a course ahead of me and I had to do everything.... but it will prolly change soon since the class are getting bigger at Moose Jaw.


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## maniac779 (4 Jun 2006)

My question is a little more geared toward finding out after what course do they typically put you on the waitlist for flight training?


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## Bograt (5 Jun 2006)

maniac779 said:
			
		

> As Zoomie stated, you begin waiting for PFT after SLT. Is that also the case if you have a PFT bypass and go straight to BFT? I imagine it would be, however can anyone confirm?
> 
> Thanks.


Confirmed. You get placed on the list after SLT. It is a Moose Jaw list. 

For example if your number is 81- that is you are behind 80 other people for Moose Jaw- regardless of whether you have a PFT bypass or not.


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## pipstah (5 Jun 2006)

SLT we are talking about second language training right?


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## Bograt (6 Jun 2006)

Oui.


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## WannaBeFlyer (9 Jun 2006)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Just got my attached posting message this morning. I am going to Portage for the Small Group Evaluation Course beginning 20 June. There are just 12 of us (4 RMC'ers).
> 
> Finally after a lifetime of waiting to join the air force, and an equivalent amount of time waiting to get on course, I am about to start my CF flying career.(I am no longer a filing cabinet mover/ or a VNC alphabetical orderer) Provided things go well, I will be off to the Jaw in January.
> 
> ...



Bograt, have been following your posts for a while now and I am excited to see you are, for lack of a better term, getting off the ground. Good luck and let us all know how it went.

On a side note, and forgive my civie enthusiasm but a 260hp, +6 -4G aircraft sounds exciting; quite the step up from my beloved Eclipse. There is a local school here in Ottawa that uses the Grob 115C for some ( and to what extent I'm not sure ) aerobatics training. I have often wondered how she compares but referencing the site Slayer provided, she is not the same machine with a Lycoming I/O320 that produces 160HP at 2700RPM (according to the manual that is).

Good luck to all going or soon to be heading to PFT! I'd love to hear the stories...


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## PinkPanther (11 Jun 2006)

Update of PFT 0601 end week 2.....

I'll keep it short to just fill in the major points.

We are in the new Hangar #1 (old hangar floor thought) with temp. class rooms and lounges.  We share the hangar with the instructors and the Nav students who are here to get 6 VFR Nav famil flights.  They put the 9 Grobs, the King Airs and all the Jet Rangers to bed here too.  Hangar #2 is knocked down and being rebuilt.  The Main Admin/Training building is being finished, but won't be ready for a long time.

We are using the old ground and flight training sllyabus but slighty modified.

Pretty much everything course wise is electronic and we were issued gucci Dell XPS M1710 laptops  we keep for the course (looked up the price... $2800 each  )  We are using the old Power Point presentations and its rough cause alot of the bugs haven't been worked out... also some of the "newer" old slides were deleted when the contract changed hands so some stuff is missing.  The biggest ***** of all is that we just got a copy of the Checklists, and we don't have the AOIs.... we do have the aircraft manual though.  Its taking awhile to get everything approved, and once one piece of info comes out it needs a revision or a correction..... expect a pain in the *** for the next year while all this electronic crap is ironed out.  Also, the brief/debrief runs will be fully kitted out with electronic gear, computers, smart boards and widescreen plasma TVs... eventually they will be using the cockpit video systems.

We had parachute training on Wednesday.  It was some dude from a jump club who has like 5800 jumps under his belt, so he knows what he is talking about, however it varies from the stuff you will learn on AMT and Sea Survival.

We've already done 2 prog tests and had 2 finals... this coming week we have 4 finals   :crybaby:  but that will signal the end of Ground School!!!!

June 19th PFT 0602 starts, June 20th PFT 0603 starts with the completely new ground and flying syllabus.  Also, and more importantly, PFT 0601 goes flying for their first flights   

My suggestions to those who are waiting... read the Air Command Weather Manual (although they are cutting MET down from 21 classes to 5), the Manual of Instrument Flying and also find a copy of the Aerodynamics manual  (forget the DND name for it) to get prepared for the ground school. 
Also, if you got questions about the Red Pages email me  


So to sum it up, we are all having a good time, love being around the new planes and can't wait to pop the cherries on them.  We had a good time last weekend cause the airshow was in town and this weekend some of the dudes went to play some paintball.


Until then, we will be crunching the books.......


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## pipstah (11 Jun 2006)

Have fun over there slayer! It's good to know that Portage is back on track!


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## Bograt (12 Jun 2006)

Slayer,

PM inbound.


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## pipstah (13 Jun 2006)

I dont know why but I'm pretty sure that I know what Bograt has asked to Slayer ;D


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## Bograt (14 Jun 2006)

Pipstah,

I don't know what you are alluding to... Slayer has several wonderful muffin/scone recipes that I am dying to try. His Pineapple Strudel is the best east of Moose Jaw.


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## pipstah (14 Jun 2006)

Ahahaha good one  ;D
I'm sure that you will love those 'recipes!!'


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## Loachman (20 Jun 2006)

They've replaced the Slingsby already? They're not even three decades old yet.

I went through on the first batch of Musketeers in early 79, and saw the Slingsbys delivered in sea containers, like huge kits, while I was on the Jet Ranger Instructor Course in 92.

We were living in old condemned H huts, with above-ground steam heating that rattled and banged all night long. A photo of a brand new minimum security jail "cell" appeared in the Winnipeg paper one day - bigger, modern, and a taxpayer-provided TV was quite prominent. They probably had maid service, too.

The fanciest piece of instructional kit was a black-and-white VTR (Tape, not cassette) that seemed to eat the first few inches of tape each time it was loaded so movies got shorter and shorter.

And it was uphill both ways to the flight line...


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