# Summery of what I could expect?



## JcPrime (23 Jul 2004)

Hey folks, been browsing through your boards here, digesting lots of helpful information and thought I'd just ask a few questions that I'm unsure about.

Basically, I'm wondering what I personally could expect if I were to goto a recruiter. I'll be finishing up my BA soon, I'll have a major in Criminology (I might in fact stay an extra year and make that a double major, adding Sociology onto that), with a minor in psychology. I'm wondering the following: (As a side-note: I'm age 20 right now, 6foot around 180lbs).

I would go into officer training as a definite due to my degree would I not? (What would my starting rank be?)

How long must I serve once joining regular forces? I'm still young, and my choices are between RCMP/CSIS(Or local police branches), and the military as far as I'm concerned(Though I could always do business related security, or private investigation). Anyway, the point is, what's the shortest amount of time I would HAVE to serve once enlisting. I simply want to know In case I don't want to make this a life long career.

As well, would I be put into military police as a definite? I mean, I wouldn't mind that, my degree is in that field, but are there other options I haven't thought of?

Also, if I were to go into military police, what would the job be like? What promotions and such could I hope for as time went on with my degree? Would my master's be needed to gain some rather higher ranking? Or is that basically a time/performance issue?

Anyway, I'll leave it at that, I'll probably have more questions in responce to answers I hopefully receive. 

Thanks in advance,

~Jeff


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## rdschultz (23 Jul 2004)

As an officer, you sign an initial 9-year basic engagement.  I've been wondering the same thing (not so much now, but moreso when I first looked into the CF), and the general consensus that I've heard (from recruiting centres, people on the internet, and elsehwere) is that you can put in for a voluntary release at any point, if you so desire.  Its up to the Canadian Forces to decide if you get it.  If someone else here can clarify the matter, it'd be greatly appreciated. 

This topic once caused me great confusion, because my entry plan requires me to give 4 years of obligatory service, yet the basic engagement is for 9 years.  I have since clarified that, for my case, I think. 

But yes, with your degree you would be eligible to be an officer right away.  You'd be a Officer Cadet during basic training, and following that you would be commissioned at the rank of 2nd Lieutenant. 

As for trades, on the application form you can pick three choices for jobs.   If MP officer is the only one that suits you, then its the only one you'll apply for.  If you also wouldn't mind being an infantry officer or something like that, then you can put that.  I don't see any jobs on the recruiting page that would seem to apply nearly as much as MP Officer, but that doesn't exclude you from applying from some of them.

Just for your own information, Officer selection boards meet twice a year, once in the late-spring, and again in late-fall.  What this means is that the recruiting process can be somewhat long if you happen to apply in December or January (like I did), because you have to wait until the end of April before files are due, and then its mid/late June before you find out if you're selected.  What I'm getting at is, don't delay your file because you think the recruiting process is rather speedy.  It can take a couple months (or longer, if issues come up) to get all your processing done, so be sure to apply early enough that you're not stuck waiting.

Also, good luck.


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## JcPrime (23 Jul 2004)

Thanks for the info, I had also heard conflicting stories about the amount of mandatory time one has to serve as well.

I don't suppose there are any MP's here that could shed some light on what the job is like? (What would my duties be? Would I ever get shipped overseas? Get to see some combat? etc etc.)

Also, does anyone have some information on promotions and gaining rank? Like I was wondering, how high would I be able to go with my BA? Is the sky the limit as long as I do my job exceptionally well? Would getting my master's give me additional rank? Or would that be just "overkill" as far as having a good foundation of credentials upon entering the service? 

I have lots of questions, thanks for your time guys


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## PARAMEDIC (23 Jul 2004)

hey jeff i can only answer some questions you have the others i believe can be answered by the directing staff or others and maybe with more detail, from my understanding of the military and what I have been thru I can tell you this ..
The choice is your ncm or officer but you don't want to waste those years in univ for nothing so officer would be logical choice...but that would conflict with the time ur willing to spend in the armed forces
-Your starting rank would be an officer cadet and after bmq (i think) you are ranked as Lt. or second Lt. not sure
-Officers tend to serve more time than ncms because of the training variance...i.e I put time in teaching you , so you better stick around to give something back..
there is nothing definite as to career wise ..once you have done you CFAT..it will list the occupations you qualify for ..then YOU choose which one you want...remember the choice is yours.
If your not comfortable to spend years in service don't bother thinking of promotions...don't mean to be harsh but you answered your question

But the best advice i can give you is go see a recruiter all your questions will be answered in detail and with much more accuracy on the facts, also see a career counselor that is at the cfrc for further questions you may have.

Hurry up and wait will be a term which you will come to endear if you decide to join the CF

Best of luck if you decide to join

cheers


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## JcPrime (23 Jul 2004)

Well, as for promotions it's not that I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a career in the military, it's mostly that I haven't really made up my mind yet as to what I want to do. As I have no prior military experience I don't know if it's for me or not. I foresee no issue's with it honestly, I think i have the capacity to do well in the military. 

When it comes to things such as promotions and ranking, I'm ambitious 

Thanks again for the info, keep pouring the information my way guys!  

~Jeff


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## casing (23 Jul 2004)

I'm not an expert either, but take what PARAMEDIC tells with a very large grain of salt.   He really doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

There are several officer occupations that you would qualify to apply for.   Just take a look at the occupation descriptions on the recruiting website and look specifically at the entrance requirements.   There it will indicate whether or not a specific type of degree is required (ie: engineering for engineering officers, criminology for military police officers, are two very simple examples).   If there isn't a specific major stated for the occupation, then any degree is sufficient (ie: for infantry officers, or MARS officers).

Additionally, when you write your CFAT you will receive a list of occupations that you qualify for *only if you are applying for an NCM position*.   If you apply as an officer you either _pass_ or _fail_.

Also, hoser is a little bit off on his assessment about the 4-year mandatory service.   He isn't wrong, it just needs to be clarified.   hoser is entering as a DEO in an engineering occupation and therefore qualifies for a $40K signing bonus.   If he wants to keep all $40K he must serve at least 4 years.   If he releases prior to 4 years he would have to pay a portion of the bonus back (according to how much time he actually served).   

You do not need to apply for an officer position just because you have a degree.   It's just that you qualify to apply for an officer position because of the degree.   Considering your degree, Military Police Officer seems to be a logical choice for you.   However, MPO is not comparable to the NCM position of MP.   NCM MPs function more like you would expect a police officer to.   MPO positions are more administrative.   Look through the support services forum for postings about MP and MPO.   There are several that describe the functions and differences of the positions.

For rank and training, I'll assume you are going to be applying as an officer.

As indicated, you would be enrolled as an Officer Cadet, but paid as a 2nd Lieutenant.   Once you graduate from BOTP (basic for officers consist of first IAP immediately followed by BOTP) you will be commissioned as a 2LT.   Then you will undertake SLT (second language training) for approximately 7 to 8 months.   After this, if you are Army, you will complete CAP, which takes about 3 months.   If you go Air Force or Navy you won't do CAP.   Once that is done, you will start your occupation-specific training.   One year after you start IAP (ie: basic), you will likely be promoted to Lieutenant.   Two years after that you will likely be promoted to Captain.   I say "likely" because nothing is guaranteed, but this scenario is probable.

In order to be promoted beyond Captain to Major and higher, you need to have a certain level of competency in your second official language.   You will also need to complete OPME modules and quite possibly complete a Masters degree as well (I don't know where my reference is about this part, so it might be inaccurate).   In any case, completing a graduate degree will definitely enhance your qualifications for promotion.

As far as occupations go, once you have been in for a while you would be able to apply to transfer to some other occupation if you qualify for it (in your case I'm thinking to Intelligence, as one example).   There is no guarantee that you would be able to transfer, but the possibility is there.   There are many possibilities and what happens will to a large degree depend upon your own drive and performance.

So, you should also take what I have just said here with a grain of salt.  As I am about to embark on IAP in September though, I have done my research.


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## rdschultz (23 Jul 2004)

Casing said:
			
		

> Also, hoser is a little bit off on his assessment about the 4-year mandatory service.  He isn't wrong, it just needs to be clarified.  hoser is entering as a DEO in an engineering occupation and therefore qualifies for a $40K signing bonus.  If he wants to keep all $40K he must serve at least 4 years.  If he releases prior to 4 years he would have to pay a portion of the bonus back (according to how much time he actually served).



Casing is right, I should have clarified.  My point though, was that there seems to be some confusion as to what the "mandatory requirement" is... In my case, although there is a 9-year basic engagment, they have a 4-year minimum in there as well.  I was trying to simply illustrate that although there is a 9-year contract you've signed on for, obviously with the 4-year clause, the 9-year contract isn't necessarily strict.  Otherwise the 4-year obligatory service would be redundant at best, or intentionally misleading at worst.   I have yet to find a hard-and-fast reference for how difficult it is to break the 9-year contract, but I'm planning on making a career out of this now (I wasn't sure thats what I wanted until I did further research beyond the "go in and talk to the recrtuiter" stage, much like yourself), so I'm not too worried about that aspect so much.  

As for promotion, Casing is also right.  If you can find an occupational specification document, it should list more details on what is required at each development period.  I did a quick search but couldn't come up with anything for MP, so I don't know if they make it publically available or not.  In the Army for instance (at least, for Signals Officers, I assume its similar for many other trades), once you reach your operationally functional point (after you finish DP1, at which point you'll be promoted to Lt.), you can start the Army Operations Course.  Every stage in your career has different required and recommended programs that you complete for promotion to the next stage, and these seem to be laid out quite well.   Getting to the rank of Captain is generally viewed as a 'time-in' thing, and the higher ranks are the ones you have to earn.


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## JcPrime (23 Jul 2004)

40k signing bonus   

Wow... 

Great amount of information there guys, thanks a bunch. A lot of stuff for me to think about, seems complicated to me, but I imagine it isn't nearly as confusing as it seems once you enter the system.

So here's a rather naive questions. Is the army in need of people quite badly? In other words, would I have any trouble getting accepted and such, would I be assured entry given I pass the physical requirements?

Anyway, thanks again for the info!

~Jeff

P.S. Would I get any sort of signing bonus?


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## rdschultz (23 Jul 2004)

Unforunately, there isn't a signing bonus listed for MP Officers currently.  As http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=205.525&sidecat=22&Chapter=205#205.525 lists, the signing bonuses are for understrength occupations.  Obviously MP Officer isn't listed in that category (but it may well be understrength)

As for the need for people, you'd have to talk to a recruiter about your specific trade.  You're never assured entry, there is always competitive selection.  For each trade, they have a specific number of positions available, and they'll offer that many positions.  Basically, it all depends on how many people apply for the trade, and how you compare to them.


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## casing (23 Jul 2004)

Yes, the CF is need of people.   However, that does not mean they take people just to fill slots.   All positions are still very competitive and many qualfied people are not offered a position.

Don't think you would qualify for a signing bonus, but I might be wrong.   Only some occupations do.   Take a look at these websites (some jobs are repeated, but the NCM positions are different):
       Air Force bonuses
       Army bonuses
       Navy bonuses
    
_Edit:_ hoser posted while I was writing, so yeah, what hoser said!  Also, all positions are very competitive, but some are more popular than others.  For example, it might be easier to get into Navy jobs because they don't seem to attract quite as many applicants and so the level of competitiveness would logically be a bit lower.


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## JcPrime (23 Jul 2004)

Good to know. Thanks again


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## PARAMEDIC (23 Jul 2004)

hey jeff . i do believe casing is right..as stated

There are several officer occupations that you would qualify to apply for.   Just take a look at the occupation descriptions on the recruiting website and look specifically at the entrance requirements.   There it will indicate whether or not a specific type of degree is required (ie: engineering for engineering officers, criminology for military police officers, are two very simple examples).   If there isn't a specific major stated for the occupation, then any degree is sufficient (ie: for infantry officers, or MARS officers). (( well i could aim for nuclear physicist IF i was going ncm but got a 50/60 in physics and chemistry ..i'd still be limited to the choices based on my CFAT results...{remember this one ..the choice is yours ncm or officer} btw its a scenario just in case casing wants to flame me!!

Additionally, when you write your CFAT you will receive a list of occupations that you qualify for only if you are applying for an NCM position.   If you apply as an officer you either pass or fail.(see the extra info i was talking about): i can only answer some questions you have the others i believe can be answered by the directing staff or others and maybe with more detail..

You do not need to apply for an officer position just because you have a degree.   It's just that you qualify to apply for an officer position because of the degree.   Considering your degree, Military Police Officer seems to be a logical choice for you


I think what i said was:The choice is yours ncm or officer but you don't want to waste those years in univ for nothing so officer would be logical choice

As indicated, you would be enrolled as an Officer Cadet, but paid as a 2nd Lieutenant.   Once you graduate from BOTP (basic for officers consist of first IAP immediately followed by BOTP) you will be commissioned as a 2LT.

I   think what i said was: -Your starting rank would be an officer cadet and after bmq (i think) you are ranked as Lt. or second Lt. not sure
(then again comes the extra info) : can only answer some questions you have the others i believe can be answered by the directing staff or others and maybe with more detail....

But I still believe if you are interested ..do go to a cfrc   as pointed out by casing : I'm not an expert either, but take what PARAMEDIC tells with a very large grain of salt.   He really doesn't know what the heck he's talking about. (funny but most of what i said was just repeated BUT with detail..so i guess 

GO to the experts who get paid to know what an mp does and all the finer details that you are unsure of , be that career choices/component transfers what ever is bugging you ..spend a couple of hours there get all your research done ..get it from the horse's 
mouth. Then make an informed choice. 
ps. casing you need to change the java   ...think it looks kinda yellow ;D


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## combat_medic (23 Jul 2004)

Paramedic: As far as I understand, not only have you never served any significant time with the military, but you haven't even completed the recruiting process, correct?

You're handing out a lot of advice to people where you shouldn't and giving advice that has a lot of errors in it. Unless you are a recruiter or a serving officer who has completed the training you're listing, you shouldn't be giving people advice about it. You have no experience to draw from, and as such are missing facts or confusing them. You're new to this forum and just as new to the military, so you really should sit back and get some experience before you try to answer other people's questions.


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## PARAMEDIC (23 Jul 2004)

I believe any and all advice givin by me is relevant as from what i have read from the CF site and related sites ... If telling a person to go to the CFRC and get correct info and have his questions answered correctly with facts not ppls opinion , is irrelevant and unfounded then I maybe in error, experience has jack to do with it....as for handing out info with error...hhhhmmmm lets see I think I backed that up with oh lets see:

hey jeff i can only answer some questions you have the others i believe can be answered by the directing staff or others and maybe with more detail, and....

But the best advice i can give you is go see a recruiter all your questions will be answered in detail and with much more accuracy on the facts, also see a career counselor that is at the cfrc for further questions you may have. and i think i dit it once again......

GO to the experts who get paid to know what an mp does and all the finer details that you are unsure of , be that career choices/component transfers what ever is bugging you ..spend a couple of hours there get all your research done ..get it from the horse's 
mouth. Then make an informed choice.

 think that was more than enuf info to let the person know THE RIGHT SOURCES TO GO TO ....IF HE WANTED THE RIGHT INFO

by the way combat medic admin dont=god  ..where did you go to get enlisted and have your paperwork done ...coz i have followed the traditional method up till now by going to CFRC to get my questions and concerns regaurding my career answered correctly and uptodate with any new changes in regulation if any ...but i guess neither ME or YOU commenting on what i said is doing Jeff any good., so im gonna withdraw from this p#ssing contest and declare ya'll the winner ...final post

sorry jeff (im having a bad day) hope these ppl have answered your questions to your satisfaction... iif not go see the ppl who actually know what they are talking about...@ the CFRC and pick up all info flyer to the occupation you desire


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## muskrat89 (23 Jul 2004)

Paramedic - you need to chill. Combat Medic's comments were more than friendly suggestions.



> I believe any and all advice givin by me is relevant as from what i have read from the CF site and related sites ... If telling a person to go to the CFRC and get correct info and have his questions answered correctly with facts not ppls opinion , is irrelevant and unfounded then I maybe in error, experience has jack to do with it....as for handing out info with error...hhhhmmmm lets see I think I backed that up with oh lets see:



As far as that goes, it's ridiculous. I read a book about flying 747s and visited some Boeing websites - you don't see me on an Air Canada discussion board, handing out advice.

I feel your intentions are probably good, you just need to back it off a notch.


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## SFontaine (24 Jul 2004)

We really need to post up some SOCNET style rules.


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## combat_medic (24 Jul 2004)

Paramedic: I have over 5 years in the military, have worked a great deal with administration and have worked on many occasions for our recruiting office. Even with all that experience to back me up, I'm still not telling people about officer recruiting because all I know is heresay, and I have no RELEVANT experience to draw from. You have absolutely no military experience. Nil. Nada. Zilch. You have spend a few hours of your time dealing with military personnel first hand and have filled out a few pieces of paper. This does not, in any way, give you the scope to give anyone advice about anything pertaining to the military. This is only proven by the fact that a lot of what you said is confused, out of date, or simply wrong. 

In addition to that, in the brief time you've spent on this forum, you have threatened the lives of the CFRC members processing your file and met anyone who tried to give you advice with complete disregard or animosity. In addition to that, your posts are written with the grammatical equivalent of typing diarrhea. Just trying to find a single intelligible sentence in that mess is a headache. 

You have been asked politely and warned formally to shape up your behaviour. You are in NO position to be giving anyone military advice until you gain some genuine, concrete military experience. You should be sitting back and reading through the archives before even beginning to ASK questions. Your attempts at answering them incorrectly, and other inappropriate behaviour have drawn the attention of the forum members and the entire moderation staff, and there have been numerous requests for you to be banned. So, your choice is this; either act with some humility and restraint, or get punted.


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