# New Server Hardware In Place!



## Mike Bobbitt (20 Jun 2007)

Yes, that's right folks, after several months and almost $4,000 we are now online with the new server hardware. So far things look good, though I know some items will still need to be fixed up. (The wiki, for example.)

If you notice any problems or anything out of place, please let me know.

Thanks again to everyone who helped make this a reality. So far, the server is not even breaking a sweat and it's running beautifully.


Cheers
Mike


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## Mike Baker (20 Jun 2007)

Woo! Thanks Mike, and your welcome for all the swag I bought to pay for this


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## Kendrick (20 Jun 2007)

It's like new underwear.  At first it's kind of constrictive, but then it becomes a part of you!


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## Ex-Dragoon (20 Jun 2007)

Mike Baker said:
			
		

> Woo! Thanks Mike, and your welcome for all the swag I bought to pay for this



Would have been a team effort Mr Baker for all who have contributed by subscribing, buying merchandise or donating....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Jun 2007)

Its flying right now.....


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## Mike Baker (20 Jun 2007)

It slowed down for a few minutes there.


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## Mike Bobbitt (20 Jun 2007)

Yeah, my bad. Although it's good hardware, apparently you can't do a full backup, build the entire search index and upgrade some components without hitting some limits.  It should start to settle down now.


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## Mike Baker (20 Jun 2007)

Yeah its good now Mike


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## Mike Bobbitt (20 Jun 2007)

...and I'm still building the search index, so it will run better once that's done.


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## GAP (20 Jun 2007)

Wow....what a difference!! nice  ;D


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## Munxcub (20 Jun 2007)

I'm not seeing any of the dynamically generated stuff on the main page. (quotes, pic of the moment, last uploaded pic... that kind of thing)


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## Yrys (20 Jun 2007)

There only around 800 guests at the moment... We should do a bit of publicity,
to really test the hardware   !


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## Mike Bobbitt (20 Jun 2007)

FYI, we are just over 10% of the way through building the search index. It's a big job! But once it is done searches will not only be faster, but more accurate.


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## Munxcub (20 Jun 2007)

Munxcub said:
			
		

> I'm not seeing any of the dynamically generated stuff on the main page. (quotes, pic of the moment, last uploaded pic... that kind of thing)



All up and running fine for me now btw.


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## Mike Bobbitt (20 Jun 2007)

Yep, just sorted that one out. Many more to come, I'm sure.


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## CFR FCS (21 Jun 2007)

Gee Mike, 
Maybe you could fix the DWAN in your spare time!   I'm sure that the IT guys could use some pointers. Thanks for the efforts.


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## Mike Bobbitt (21 Jun 2007)

Interesting... the storm that's passing through has shown me that our current UPS doesn't have enough juice to support the new server.


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Jun 2007)

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Interesting... the storm that's passing through has shown me that our current UPS doesn't have enough juice to support the new server.



ooops?  ;D


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## GUNS (21 Jun 2007)

Would that be the reason for the system being very slow. I am at a snails pace.


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## Mike Bobbitt (21 Jun 2007)

No, we'd upgraded the old server to 4Gb because we were frequently running out. When I ordered the new server, I only ordered 2Gb in part because it was already expensive enough! Looks like I'm going to have to order that extra 2 Gb to see us through.


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## George Wallace (21 Jun 2007)

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> No, we'd upgraded the old server to 4Gb because we were frequently running out. When I ordered the new server, I only ordered 2Gb in part because it was already expensive enough! Looks like I'm going to have to order that extra 2 Gb to see us through.



Mike

I've got a 4 Gb Memory Stick I can lend you for a couple of days...... ;D


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## Edward Campbell (22 Jun 2007)

I don't know about anyone else, but my situation, today, is back to what we had in May, see: http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/60681/post-564633.html#msg564633  Things started to go pear shaped yesterday (the storm?) then stabilized in the evening and are, mostly, 'out' this morning.

Air Force.ca, Army.ca, Milnet.ca and Navy.ca open (or more often fail to open) at random, quite independent of 'box' and OS.


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## Mike Bobbitt (22 Jun 2007)

Right you are, it's the same problem, same solution. (One of your Internet connections was down.) Luckily not server related.


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## Mike Baker (22 Jun 2007)

Running fine for me  ;D


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## armyvern (22 Jun 2007)

Mike Baker said:
			
		

> Running fine for me  ;D



Me too!!!  ;D


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## GAP (22 Jun 2007)

Mine is running fine now, but like ER, couldn't connect worth a hill of beans last night and early this AM at home. Got to work, and everything is fine.... (cleared cache, cookies, etc....)


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## George Wallace (22 Jun 2007)

Funny what an hour can do.  At work this morning at 0830 -0900 the site went to crap and was very slow to load, and when it did it wasn't formated right.

Now it is running good to very good.   ;D


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## GUNS (22 Jun 2007)

Going great "guns" now.  ;D Vast improvement from my last log-on.


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## Roy Harding (22 Jun 2007)

I haven't cleared a damned thing - and the site runs fast one log on - and slow the next - and so on.

I've checked on other sites, and my speed is fine - I suspect there's something with Milnet.ca, not our individual computers.

That being said - I'm confident that Mr. Bobbitt is "on it", and it will be fixed soon - all new hardware expose unforeseen "glitches" only AFTER they've been put online.  (I know how grammatically incorrect that last sentence is - but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to fix it).


Roy


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## Mike Bobbitt (24 Jun 2007)

Update: The search index is (finally) built. That means the server should run faster, and searches should be more efficient and accurate.


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## Yrys (24 Jun 2007)

C   l !  Thanks .


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## Mike Baker (24 Jun 2007)

Wow that is a lot better Mike, thanks a bunch  ;D


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## NL_engineer (25 Jun 2007)

Thanks Mike  ;D


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## GAP (6 Jul 2007)

Mike....the upgrade in equipment has been a beautiful improvement....thanks again.


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## Mike Bobbitt (6 Jul 2007)

More to come yet! The current system has 2Gb of RAM and we sometimes max that out. Kendrick (the same guy who brokered the deal on the server hardware) has gotten us a great deal on an extra 2Gb of RAM, so when it arrives in a couple of weeks we'll be even better off!


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## Mike Baker (6 Jul 2007)

More?! I like it Mike, thanks!


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## freeze_time311 (11 Jul 2007)

Is this why I couldn't get on the site for a couple of days?


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## Mike Baker (11 Jul 2007)

freeze_time311 said:
			
		

> Is this why I couldn't get on the site for a couple of days?


The server had to be rebooted to my knowledge.


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## Mike Bobbitt (13 Jul 2007)

...and it was actually the networking gear, not the server. Looks like we've just chased the problem one link further down the line, but I expect this one will be much easier to solve.


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## Mike Bobbitt (7 Aug 2007)

More good news: our additional RAM showed up today, and was installed just minutes ago. We've now jumped from 2Gb to 4Gb of memory. This should resolve a problem where occasionally we'd max out our memory and the system would run slowly.


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## freeze_time311 (7 Aug 2007)

Awesome. It just keeps on getting better.


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## Mike Baker (7 Aug 2007)

More good news. What else is there left to be done Mike?


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## Mike Bobbitt (7 Aug 2007)

Next up: I have to address the power situation. Right now we're working off of a dead UPS and we probably need 2 decent ones to cover the networking gear and the server itself.


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## geo (7 Aug 2007)

Mike, when you get the two UPS' make sure you split the server's power needs over the two... that way, if one goes wacky, the other one can carry the can for a bit.


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## Mike Bobbitt (7 Aug 2007)

Good plan. I'd intended on getting a "small" one exclusively for the networking gear, but it would probably make more sense to spend the few extra bucks to get one that could handle it all if it needed to.


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## geo (7 Aug 2007)

two mid sized UPS' are better, in the long run.

I did a little booboo once and accidentaly "reset" one UPS.  Fortunately, the othe UPS carried the can for the time it took the other one to get back on line.  A bunch of alarms squealed but, nothing else.


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## Flip (9 Aug 2007)

Can the dead UPS be repaired?

They usually just need new batteries.

Usually costs almost as much as a new UPS. ;D

If it were in Edmonton I'd be happy to fix it.


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## geo (9 Aug 2007)

With lower cost of new kit, refurbishing the old UPS prolly isn't worth the trouble... IMHO


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## Flip (9 Aug 2007)

All depends.....

If the old one is a relatively large or good one - fix it.
If not - recycle.

Newer ones tend to be electronic kindling if you go too low end.

I've seen a few with the sides bulged out and batteries melted
after a single use!


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## Mike Bobbitt (9 Aug 2007)

No, the old one is a cheap $120 model. I'm fairly new to the whole UPS thing but it seems like you guys are old hats at it... what sort of characteristics shoould I collect from the gear (amps, volts etc.) to determine the right UPS solution? How much should I over-engineer it by?


Thanks
Mike


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## McG (9 Aug 2007)

Batteries are typically rated in Watt hours, it would be all too easy if UPS used this system because you can determine roughly if it will meet your needs & for how long it will meet your needs.

It seems UPS are typically rated in VoltAmps (Watts), so if you know the wattage your system is using you can determine an appropriate UPS.  But, you will need to buy a UPS with a higher VA rating than your needs because some of the electrical power is used to convert DC to AC.  I can't help with how much larger you need to go, because I don't know that stuff.

Then there is the question of how long it will keep your system alive for.  Where I've looked I've not seen a hours of protection rating, and without a W hr rating I would not know where to start an educated guess from.

Looks like I'm not going to be much help.  I'll let someone else post now.


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## Flip (9 Aug 2007)

There are two things to consider.

Capacity ( In Amps ) and for how long ( minutes to hours).

The UPS should be rated for 100% of the total load and overated by 100% 
for safety.

The other arguement depends on what is required - Are long outages the norm?
The longer the outage - the hotter the batteries will get.

My concern is to avoid the cheapies as they do tend to age poorly and do pose some risk.
Remember - that the batteries will age and the rated capacity will decline.

If the Hardware takes a total of 5 amps - Get a 10 amp UPS
Check the labels or manuals if you have to to get this spec.

The "VA" rating might not be meaningful. - some vendors lie.

PM me with details if you want - some of this stuff can be subjective.



  






Just a few thoughts. ;D


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## Mike Bobbitt (9 Aug 2007)

Ok, the server is 10 amps. (Told you I got a big one!) The networking gear is 2.3 amps plus two devices don't have input amps listed. They're 120V 17 watt, can we figure it out from that?

Now this is input amps, I assume we don't care about output?


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## GAP (9 Aug 2007)

Power=I(current) x E (voltage)

I = P/E

I = 17/110 = .16 amp


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## Flip (9 Aug 2007)

Nice correction there GAP 

As usual, my rule of thumb fails.

For a total of 12.5 Amps we're not talking about consumer junk anymore.
15 Amps is most we can use on a 110v line.

One question, what's the actual current drawn - I suspect it's no where near the 10 Amps
on the power supply.  If we go by actual draw times 2 we should be fine.


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## Mike Bobbitt (9 Aug 2007)

Flip said:
			
		

> One question, what's the actual current drawn - I suspect it's no where near the 10 Amps
> on the power supply.  If we go by actual draw times 2 we should be fine.



Umm... not sure how to measure that... does this help: http://www.antec.com/pdf/flyers/TP3flyer.pdf

It's the specs for the power supply in our server. I'm OK getting two units, one for the srever and one for the networking gear if it helps simplify the problem.


Thanks again for all your help!


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## Flip (9 Aug 2007)

I get 7 Amps as worst case for the 650 Watt power supply.

I used GAPs formula and used 85% as an efficiency factor.

650W/110V= 5.9A

5.9Amps/.85%= 6.9A

6.9 A (server) + 2.5A(other stuff) = 9.4 Amps

We can also  consider CSAs 80% load factor requirement.

9.4A ( rated ) X 80% = 7.52A  Max. legal normal load

All totaled you are unlikely to draw as much as 8 Amps.

I would use one UPS, even though destributing the load would likely cost less.
There is not much point in some things running when some other things are not.

The single industrial size UPS  is likely to be safer and eliminates any possible issues (noise)
between connecting equipment that are effectively on different circuits.

 An electrician could measure the current coming out of the wall receptacle with 
 a clamp-on Ammeter. The clamp goes around the black wire only.   

My rule of thumb can still work!   :

BTW. that works out to 1650 VA for 110V to 1800VA for 120V


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## Mike Bobbitt (9 Aug 2007)

Awesome, thanks Flip. You have undoubtedly saved me from (at best) an uninformed decision, or (at worse) a completely inappropriate purchase!


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## Mike Bobbitt (9 Aug 2007)

Darn... a cursory glance says 1500 VA is the price cutoff... You can get a 1500 VA UPS for ~4-600, next up seems to be a 2200 VA for over $1k. I'll keep looking.


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## Flip (9 Aug 2007)

2200 VA would likely be a 220 volt type. - 1800 VA is our MAX. ( on a 15 amp circuit.)

I'll check around - see what I can find in my world.


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## Mike Bobbitt (23 Aug 2007)

Got any recommendations out of this crew:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?Nav=|c:234|

Thanks
Mike


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## Munxcub (23 Aug 2007)

We have a couple of APC UPC's at my office here... so far so good. that's about all I can say without straying outside my lanes heh.


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## GAP (23 Aug 2007)

MJP has used them, seemed to like them a lot...apparently they back up their product without quibbles.


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## Flip (23 Aug 2007)

Most are too small

The only one I like from this link is: Tripp Lite Smart PRO 2200

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=215763&Sku=T105-1068%20A

There are better brands - but this fits spec-wise and is cheap for what it is.

You will note that it is rated at 1700 watts. - That makes sense.

The line on the spec. sheet that says 2200VA - can't be true. - unless it's on a 20A circuit.
Of course the line that says Max Input 15A would be wrong.
There is some inherent contradiction on the spec. sheet.

I did see some Matsushita adds that showed an 1800VA model - Costs about a thousand bucks I think.....

A Warrantee that extends to what's on the UPS is a good idea.
I would watch out for that.


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## geo (24 Aug 2007)

Had a couple of the APC smart UPS where I last worked.  For business application we also had an extra battery that fits underneath, but I don't think you need that.  For 409$, it's pert good bang for the buck.


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## Flip (24 Aug 2007)

Uh, Geo ,

I, I don't know how to say this.......

I mentioned a UPS with melted batteries  in an earlier post  

To be fair, It was a smaller one.

Business grade or Server sized or whatever, Fine - just NOT the consumer junk.


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## geo (24 Aug 2007)

NP Flip,
The "smart UPS" is a good piece of kit.
also.... you can't always juge a product by one failure.  You might have had a defective one OR, too much of a load mighta damaged it's innards.


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## Mike Bobbitt (24 Aug 2007)

I'm pricing out a couple of options right now... Flip the link I posted above was for TigerDirect in the US so it's all US prices... My bad.


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## Flip (25 Aug 2007)

Geo,

Allow me to elaborate on my point of view. 


> The "smart UPS" is a good piece of kit.


I really don't know....Never seen one (of this model) with it's pants off.

The UPSs I have seen belong to a friend of mine who has around 30 servers
in his computer room with A/C which feels like a meat locker, and varied mix of 
protection hardware.  He comes to me when they need attention.
Some are cheapies and a couple that were worth around 10K when they were new.

As I design and build electronic/electrical equipment for a living, I am familiar 
with what would pass CSA and what would not. A UPS must have over-current
protection and thermal protection. Activation of either of these protections should not
cause permanent damage. I have seen acceptable failures, such as tripping out or
not coming online, but the self destruct mode shown by this particular model 
(in three examples, all in the same power outage) should not be possible.  My guess is that the manufacturer substituted battery types.
I know the protection for this model was inadequate. 

I also acknowledge myself to be a harsh judge of things electronic.

All of that being said - I would rather see Mike and the Sacred Server for ARMY.ca
put on a more worthy UPS. It's my opinion only, mind you- It's up to Mike.

Personally, I wouldn't mind making a small donation if that helps get a safer UPS.
I WILL continue the search around here for a UPS - If I find one though,
shipping will be a b!tch problem.


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## Mike Bobbitt (25 Aug 2007)

Flip and geo,

Your advice is greatly appreciated! As it stands, I'm planning on getting this UPS once we can afford it:

http://www.xdeli.ca/SMART-PRO-NET-2200-VA-1600W-60HZ-p-61742.html

This is the one Flip recommended above and it seems to be the best priced in it's range. I'm open to suggestions and comments from all - I don't want to go through this again in a year or two if I can avoid it. 


Thanks
Mike

Edit: Holy crap... I just noticed the weight: 95 lbs!


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## Flip (25 Aug 2007)

> I don't want to go through this again in a year or two if I can avoid it.



And on that point, let me find out what I can on replacement batteries.
That's the reason the warranty is only two years.


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## Mike Bobbitt (25 Aug 2007)

Ah, good thinking! Batteries that can't be removed/replaced or are prohibitively expensive are not a good thing. Thanks for thinking of that one!


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## geo (27 Aug 2007)

> Runtime is expandable with optional BP24V33 external battery packs.



external battery pack - 340$US


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## Mike Bobbitt (27 Aug 2007)

Heh, I guess I should have picked that out of the description. 

Thanks!


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## geo (27 Aug 2007)

The external batterypack will usually be more expensive as you are paying for casing, cabling, etc.
Replacement batteries should (based on personal experience with APC UPS') be cheaper.  They should also be easy to change.


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## Flip (27 Aug 2007)

The internal replacement batteries ( I been told ) are 12 Volt 35 A and you need two.
The price each varies between $103 and $104 CAD around here and you should not
need them for around 30 months or so ( my guess ).

Mike, if you see anything else that is of some interest we can get the cost of ownership data for that too.

Cheers all!


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## Mike Bobbitt (27 Aug 2007)

Thanks guys, you've been a great help!


Cheers
Mike


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## Flip (28 Aug 2007)

Got a call from a supplier late today.

The replacement batteries can be acquired for $78.00 CAD ea.

Turns out they are a very common type - often used in electric 
wheelchairs etc.

Not a biggie I know - but it's nice to have an improving alternative. ;D


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## Mike Bobbitt (28 Aug 2007)

You bet, thanks for the research!


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## Mike Bobbitt (4 Sep 2007)

Ok folks, the new UPS was just ordered and came in a hair under a grand (incl. taxes, shipping, etc.) Should be here late in the week, I'll post an update when it arrives.

We should be all set for hardware for the next little while, unless having a UPS means I now need raised floors and better HVAC in my office. 

Thanks to everyone who helped pick out the right hardware, I'd have been lost otherwise.


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Sep 2007)

Good news folks, our UPS just arrived... it's a beast! It's charging now and I'll likely plug the gear into it some time tonight. That'll mean about 10 minutes of down time, assuming nothing catches fire.


Cheers
Mike


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## foo32 (10 Sep 2007)

I have to say this is a beautifully laid-out bulletin-board -- probably the best I've seen anywhere (my compliments!).  Out of curiosity is this a Linux/PHP/MySQL/PHPBB setup, an MS Windows-based machine of some kind, or something else?


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Sep 2007)

We're the usual Linux/MySQL/PHP setup. The forums use Simple Machines as the base software.


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## foo32 (10 Sep 2007)

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> We're the usual Linux/MySQL/PHP setup. The forums use Simple Machines as the base software.



Interesting ... I've never heard of the 'Simple Machines' BB software.  I'll have to check it out, thanks!


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Sep 2007)

http://www.simplemachines.org/


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Sep 2007)

...and that's it, the UPS is now in place! We should be able to survive a power outage when next one hits. Now I'm hoping for one!


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## midget-boyd91 (10 Sep 2007)

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> ...and that's it, the UPS is now in place! We should be able to survive a power outage when next one hits. Now I'm hoping for one!



You do realize you'll need a generator to actually USE the computer in the event of a power outage, dont you?
---I know you meant the site would stay up for everyone else, but I couldn't NOT post that  

Good work, Thanks


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## Mike Baker (10 Sep 2007)

Good work Mike! Thanks a lot.


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## geo (11 Sep 2007)

Nice to hear that everything has come together.
Thanks Mike


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## Mike Bobbitt (11 Sep 2007)

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> You do realize you'll need a generator to actually USE the computer in the event of a power outage, dont you?
> ---I know you meant the site would stay up for everyone else, but I couldn't NOT post that
> 
> Good work, Thanks



I have a laptop, and while my wireless will go out, I can still plug directly into the switch.


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## Mike Bobbitt (11 Sep 2007)

Thunder and lightning here, I may get to test out the UPS already!


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## Mike Bobbitt (11 Sep 2007)

...And here's a (blurry) photo of it:


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## George Wallace (11 Sep 2007)

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> ...And here's a (blurry) photo of it:



File too big for the Server?  Nice red "X" in a white box, anyway.   ;D


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## Drummy (11 Sep 2007)

Could it be OPSEC ?


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## Mike Bobbitt (14 Sep 2007)

Power just flickered... not enough to make it a decent test, but we may have a chance yet!


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## p_imbeault (14 Sep 2007)

Mike  can't you just flick the breaker?  ;D


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## armyvern (14 Sep 2007)

Imbeault said:
			
		

> Mike  can't you just flick the breaker?  ;D



He and I often sit at the rear on the SYB I'll have you know.

I wouldn't want him to run a test by flicking off the breaker and having it NOT work ... if I were you!! A whole bunch of us may become mad at you were it to fail!!


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## Flip (15 Sep 2007)

It would probably be a good idea to conduct a controlled test.....

I would love to see what happens to the ouput voltage during one
of those flickers.........


Bye the way, glad you've got 'er done!


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## Mike Bobbitt (16 Nov 2007)

Our first "field test" of the new UPS is now complete. We had a brief outage and the server/network connection stayed up the entire time. Success!


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## Mike Baker (16 Nov 2007)

So now when your 'out of town', and the site goes, it will come back again? ???


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## JBoyd (16 Nov 2007)

Mike Baker said:
			
		

> So now when your 'out of town', and the site goes, it will come back again? ???



well providing they have a nice high capacity UPS they site should not 'go' out


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## Mike Bobbitt (16 Nov 2007)

In theory this should reduce our downtime quite a bit. We'll see what reality has in store for us.


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## Mike Bobbitt (24 Nov 2007)

Another short (under 5 min) power bump and no outage as a result of the UPS.


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## geo (24 Nov 2007)

Awright!!!
Way to go Mike


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## navymich (25 Nov 2007)

Was that an outage from about 2200-2330 EST tonight, or other problems?


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## Mike Bobbitt (25 Nov 2007)

It may not have been an outage for everyone, but yeah, there was an issue with the web server.


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## Nfld Sapper (25 Nov 2007)

Ah ok was wondering about that too.

Thx for the update Mike.


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