# opinions on a bullet counter



## royalinfantry (26 Apr 2005)

Hello, just wondering what everyone would think of a small screen that could attach to any modern assault rifle that would register how many shots have been fired during a particular period, with the option to reset after a magazine has been fired. How much would you pay for a device like this? Some opinions would be greatly appreciated.


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## royalinfantry (26 Apr 2005)

Thanks for voting


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## DogOfWar (26 Apr 2005)

doesnt Miles gear already count rounds spent plus hits?Last time I used it did-is that just the stuff the yanks use? Im not sure what you are asking......


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## q_1966 (26 Apr 2005)

How would this screen stand up to the elements; snow, mud, rain, water, arctic tempratures, hot scorching desert heat? sounds impractical to me


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## Ammogod (26 Apr 2005)

Come on man get a grip, do you really need a counter, your mag holds 30 rounds, if the forces has lowered the standard that you can't count to 30, then we are hurting


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## Kat Stevens (26 Apr 2005)

Like this: BANG...one, BANG...two, BANG...three....repeat as necessary...

Kat


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## chrisf (26 Apr 2005)

It's not that hard to count your round, but I also note that some armies have moved to clear plastic mags...


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## ImanIdiot (26 Apr 2005)

Another option is to make the 2nd to last round a tracer, so you can switch mags withoutgoing empty. Not that hitting the bolt catch is really slowing anybody down...


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## royalinfantry (26 Apr 2005)

Theres no reason to be so negative, sure there is other ways around it, but are you telling me when your doing a live fire section attack, and your about to take the trench, are you telling me you know exactly how many rounds you have in your magazine? GIves you one less thing to think about allowing you to focus fully on the task at hand. And as far as the tracer goes, they are very difficult to see during the day, and yes the device would be similar to a wrist watch, thus being able to stand up to harsh conditions better then the rifle itself. Thankyou very much for the input though guys, its helping me out even if it is negative.


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## 2 Cdo (26 Apr 2005)

Change mags just before assaulting a trench? Remember it's not about the gadgets.


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## chrisf (26 Apr 2005)

Thoughts...

Any such device would add weight to the rifle.

With regards to the display, would it be lighted or non-lighted? If it's lighted, it's going to be able to give away your posistion, if non-lighted, then what good is it at night? If you went with some option along the lines of the way an indiglo watch is lighted, a push-button, then the time it takes to push the button and check the display would negate any benefits of the device.

Could it be a useful idea? Perhaps. Is it practical? Prehaps not.


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## ImanIdiot (26 Apr 2005)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Remember it's not about the gadgets.



Well played!


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## q_1966 (26 Apr 2005)

royalinfantry said:
			
		

> Theres no reason to be so negative, sure there is other ways around it, but are you telling me when your doing a live fire section attack, and your about to take the trench, are you telling me you know exactly how many rounds you have in your magazine? GIves you one less thing to think about allowing you to focus fully on the task at hand. And as far as the tracer goes, they are very difficult to see during the day, and yes the device would be similar to a wrist watch, thus being able to stand up to harsh conditions better then the rifle itself. Thankyou very much for the input though guys, its helping me out even if it is negative.



oh  I thought you ment a small digital LED display on the rifle somewhere. Is this technology imaginary or does it actually exist?


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## George Wallace (26 Apr 2005)

Sgt. Papke said:
			
		

> oh  I thought you ment a small digital LED display on the rifle somewhere. Is this technology imaginary or does it actually exist?



This technology does indeed exist.  It is used with the MILES and other systems to 'pulse' the laser to simulate automatic fire of MGs and Automatic wpns. (Actually to actuate the laser every time a round is fired.)  

To add a LED counter to the wpn would be a grievous tactical mistake.  If the light of one cigarette can light up a whole platoon at night, when viewed through II and IR sights, just imagine what a LED can do also.  Light Disappline is very important, and a bunch of guys who can't count would cause havoc at night.


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## Ex-Dragoon (26 Apr 2005)

MasterPrivate said:
			
		

> Another option is to make the 2nd to last round a tracer, so you can switch mags withoutgoing empty. Not that hitting the bolt catch is really slowing anybody down...



Tracers work both ways IIRC.



> Hello, just wondering what everyone would think of a small screen that could attach to any modern assault rifle that would register how many shots have been fired during a particular period, with the option to reset after a magazine has been fired. How much would you pay for a device like this? Some opinions would be greatly appreciated.



Watched _Aliens _ recently?


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## George Wallace (26 Apr 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Tracers work both ways IIRC.



Heh!   Heh!      How long before someone asks if they can be loaded backwards?   ;D


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## Grunt (26 Apr 2005)

I think it would just complicate the rifle.


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## AZA-02 (26 Apr 2005)

Like someone said clear plastic mags.
Or for the blind, a computer that would tell ya how many rounds ya got, just like stephen hawkins.


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## chrisf (26 Apr 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Heh!   Heh!      How long before someone asks if they can be loaded backwards?     ;D



I watched a pair of clerks debate which way the rounds went into the mag one evening... after arriving at a conclusion together, they loaded the rounds... backwards.


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## Troopasaurus (26 Apr 2005)

^ I almost fell out of my chair on that one.

I agree with most other people here that this device would not bring enough of a gain to justify this system. There are already enough gadgets that serve better purposes that are going to be attached to your rifle; the more things that can go wrong the more things will go wrong.


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## chrisf (26 Apr 2005)

No.. they can be loaded backwards... trust me on this one... they just can't be chambered backwards... again... trust me on this one


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## jonsey (27 Apr 2005)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> No.. they can be loaded backwards... trust me on this one... they just can't be chambered backwards... again... trust me on this one



Oh, that you HAVE to explain.  ;D


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## Britney Spears (27 Apr 2005)

If we adopt G36 style magazines, we can also eliminate the need for mag pouches.


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## chrisf (27 Apr 2005)

Jonsey said:
			
		

> Oh, that you HAVE to explain.   ;D



I already did... read my above post... remember... they arrived at the conclusion *together*... I should note, that both individuals were in possesion of a leaf or better...


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## George Wallace (27 Apr 2005)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I already did... read my above post... remember... they arrived at the conclusion *together*... I should note, that both individuals were in possesion of a leaf or better...



OK.......never send an officer to do a man's work....  ;D


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## Teddy Ruxpin (27 Apr 2005)

Or a MCpl or Sgt??     ;D   The only officers I know who wear leaves are Generals!

Britney:   The G36 mag system is one of the clunkiest I've ever seen.   Yeah, they're clear.   Yeah, they clip together.   That's about it.   I noticed the guys in your pics are Spanish...   'nuff said...

Cheers,

TR

Edit after being made an a** out of:   Mea culpa - the guys in Brittany's pics are obviously German.   You'd think after nearly seven months with them, I'd know the difference!     :blotto:  The Germans  I was with used the G36...which is where I know it from.


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## GDawg (27 Apr 2005)

How would a G36 Mag eliminate the need for mag pouches? That guy in the pic is using a mag doubler of some sort.
G36 mag doublers fit on our mags too.


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## ROTP Applicant (27 Apr 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> I noticed the guys in your pics are Spanish...   'nuff said...



I'm pretty sure that they're German, not Spanish.


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## DogOfWar (27 Apr 2005)

ROTP Civi U said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure that they're German, not Spanish.



Last i checked that was a german flag....


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## Teddy Ruxpin (27 Apr 2005)

Whoops!   You're right, of course...must be my old age and being too quick on the "post" trigger!    Lesson learned...

Cheers,

TR


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## DogOfWar (27 Apr 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Whoops!   You're right, of course...must be my old age and being too quick on the "post" trigger!     Lesson learned...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TR



 ;D My young age causes me to point that out LOL.


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## Docherty (27 Apr 2005)

Murphy's Law:When in doubt change your mag.


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## Danjanou (27 Apr 2005)

Docherty said:
			
		

> Murphy's Law:When in doubt change your mag.



Addendum: Murphy's Law of Military Maintenance: "If it ain't broke and still works, don't screw with it." 

It's been  awhile since I had to do it and I still remember a) how to count rounds and b) when in doubt or about to assualt, change mags.


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## Bomber (27 Apr 2005)

When the C79A3 is invented, perhaps a small LCD screen in it would be nice.  Add some GPS, LRF, and a mag counter, with a big button to scroll through these three simple menus.  I think I am on to something here.  Add a clock on there and you....I have said enough.  Time for the patent office.  Maybe a digital camera as well, hook up to USB, download pics form a recce onto a Company Commanders PDA, with Bluetoooth....Oh my goodness.  It is starting to sound like the sight of the soldier of tomorrow.  Mag counter seems like a really simple thing, that is low on a list.  If I could look into my sight and Laze a target, and get a real time 10 figure to my location, I just became a crap load more valuable in a battle.


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## George Wallace (27 Apr 2005)

Bomber said:
			
		

> When the C79A3 is invented, perhaps a small LCD screen in it would be nice.   Add some GPS, LRF, and a mag counter, with a big button to scroll through these three simple menus.   I think I am on to something here.   Add a clock on there and you....I have said enough.   Time for the patent office.   Maybe a digital camera as well, hook up to USB, download pics form a recce onto a Company Commanders PDA, with Bluetoooth....Oh my goodness.   It is starting to sound like the sight of the soldier of tomorrow.   Mag counter seems like a really simple thing, that is low on a list.   If I could look into my sight and Laze a target, and get a real time 10 figure to my location, I just became a crap load more valuable in a battle.



Where would you put the bullets?    ;D


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## Britney Spears (27 Apr 2005)

Doesn't KevinB's rifle do all that already?


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## Teddy Ruxpin (27 Apr 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> ;D My young age causes me to point that out LOL.



LOL.   In my own defence, Spain uses the G36 too...   I saw the red arm band and made a leap of logic - without looking at the flag, the cam pattern, the helmet....   You get the idea!


Cheers,

TR


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## Britney Spears (27 Apr 2005)

> LOL.  In my own defence, Spain uses the G36 too...  I saw the red arm band and made a leap of logic - without looking at the flag, the cam pattern, the helmet....  You get the idea!



Methinks the Army.ca recce god needs to spend more time surfing militaryphotos.net..


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## Danjanou (27 Apr 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Methinks the Army.ca recce god needs to spend more time surfing militaryphotos.net..



Is that his punishment? Sounds rather harsh 

(edit to correct typos)


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## Teddy Ruxpin (27 Apr 2005)

Please, for the love of God, don't make me read the posts there!!  :crybaby:


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## Kat Stevens (27 Apr 2005)

Shudder.... went on that site once following a link from here.  Felt my already limited IQ drop about 40 points in the first three postings I read.  ;D

Kat


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## Posthumane (27 Apr 2005)

I'm curious, couldn't you take our current mags, and cut a slit down the side so as to be able to see roughly how many bullets you have left? saves the trouble of replacing all the mags with clear plastic. The only trouble i could see with that is dirt and crap would be able to get in there a little easier than now.


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## Danjanou (27 Apr 2005)

Posthumane said:
			
		

> I'm curious, couldn't you take our current mags, and cut a slit down the side so as to be able to see roughly how many bullets you have left? saves the trouble of replacing all the mags with clear plastic. The only trouble i could see with that is dirt and crap would be able to get in there a little easier than now.



You more or less answered your own question there. Dirt and crap get into mags, mags don't work. Mags doen't work, rifle don't go bang when you want/need it to. That kind of makes the whole question of how many rounds you have left rather redundent.


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## KevinB (27 Apr 2005)

I'd be more interested in the idea as part of the maintenance program.
  Both SCAR and SOPMOD II for USSOC featured a round counter as a "nice to have item".

Anyone who advocates counting your rounds in combat is and Idiot or has never been faced with a stressful situtation - you have a lot more to conceptrate on that was that 25 or 26... Which is why we advocate tactical mag changes (with one in the chmaber as opposed to running it dry).

As I mentioned above thos would for prevantiative maintenance purposes, for the wpn tech could come up scan the weapon and have the RC download the # rounds, stoppages and types etc.  Thus when parts like the bolt and trigger mech that are subject to wear come near MTBF they can be pre-emptively replaced.  Of ocurse them you also have to work aout a system to figure out dry drill EFC's.

Cheers


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## childs56 (27 Apr 2005)

building a mag with a sight glass would solve the problem. you could see how many rounds are in the mag still. any thing electronic i think will become a hinderence. more weight no matter how many ounces it is will start to add up once all the other electronic kit is thought of, the KISS method, should apply to all matter pertaining to the Troop on the ground. To many electricle gadgets and more prone to break down not to mention the added weight, over all. then their is the supply of batteries and such that will have to be maintained. just my thoughts  cheers


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## Britney Spears (27 Apr 2005)

Instead of electronics, could there be some kind of chemical "litmus strip" placed near the chamber or bolt that reacts to heat/carbon and turns different colors after a number of rounds have been fired?  This is of course to address the maintainance issue.


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## qjdb (27 Apr 2005)

How'z about the kind of device that some folks use for counting their golf strokes, where you press a button and it moves the numbers up one, sort of like the odometer on your car.  No electronics, just mechanics, and it could be linked up to when the bullets move up into chamber.  And make it so that when you put in a new magazine, it resets to zero.

Or, now that I think of it, a little stick that pokes out the side of the mag, that is linked to the spring / plate, that slides up with the spring / plate.

Both of these eliminate the need for batteries, and would probably be only a couple ounces.

Q


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## Bomber (27 Apr 2005)

Mix some coconut oil in with the powder.  Place this Carribean bullet in at number 27 or something.  When you smell a pina collada, change mags.  Increase the powder load in a bullet, when it feels like you fired a C3 from your shoulder, change mags.  The tracer one sounds simple enough, but I want more complication and less reliability.  Maybe a coloured powder mix, every five rounds is a different colour.  When you see lavender, change mags.  All I remember from plastic mags was that they sucked, broke, stayed dirty, jammed, and sucked.  Other than that, no problems with the old plastic mags.  Maybe a little gauge that contains a 30th of its capacity with every shot from a rifle.  After 30 rounds, your front sight pops a little pink nipple up.  When you change mags, the pressure is released and the nipple drops.  

Just wing it, when the time comes that you figure you should change mags, do it.


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## q_1966 (27 Apr 2005)

How do you put the flash suppresor (Think thats what its called) on the C7 so it doesnt give away your position?


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## chrisf (27 Apr 2005)

There's already a flash supressor on the C7... it's integral.


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## Kat Stevens (27 Apr 2005)

Sgt. Papke said:
			
		

> How do you put the flash suppresor (Think thats what its called) on the C7 so it doesnt give away your position?


With a wrench... Lefty loosy, righty tighty.

Kat


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