# CF genral staff system



## WLSC (10 Aug 2012)

Hi,

Does some of you know the PAM on this subject ?  I need to have the one with the fonctions, ans the definition of the letters, i.e; the J,S,A,N and G.  I know them, I need the ref.

Thanks.


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## fraserdw (10 Aug 2012)

AOC course material is my reference.  Check the Land Forces Staff Duties Pub.


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## MedCorps (10 Aug 2012)

See: B-GL-331-002/FP-001 - Staff Duties for Land Operations - 2008-08-01

Chapter 1 - Section 2 and Chapter 2 (which is the terms of reference)

Covers he Army G functions 1/2/3/4/5/6/8/9

B-GG-005-004/AF-000 - 2000-12-18- Canadian Forces Operations (which might be an old NDID / updated) 

Chapter 7 - Section 2 covers the J staff

MC


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## WLSC (10 Aug 2012)

Thanks for that.  I'll need this.  I'll try to get them from home.  Does it goes down to the J,G,A,N and S ?  Somebody argue with me that the ''S'' does not exist !!  I think (because I've seen it) it does but not use nationaly, only overseas.


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## dapaterson (10 Aug 2012)

"S" is an Americanism.  Canadians who are ignorant about their own systems and structures use it.


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## WLSC (10 Aug 2012)

> "S" is an Americanism.  Canadians who are ignorant about their own systems and structures use it.


   >

Ok, but...  for my education, where his the legitimacy to do it on tour with the BG ?


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## dapaterson (10 Aug 2012)

FusMR said:
			
		

> >
> 
> Ok, but...  for my education, where his the legitimacy to do it on tour with the BG ?



I suspect it was the path of least resistance.  One can tell the Americans repeatedly "Oh, we don't have an S3.  We have an Ops O", or you can quietly start printing signs for the door that say "S3".


(All in the same font and point size, of course... especially if you're of The RCR persuasion)


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## WLSC (10 Aug 2012)

Posté par: dapaterson  le: Aujourd'hui à 21:01:16 


> I suspect it was the path of least resistance.  One can tell the Americans repeatedly "Oh, we don't have an S3.  We have an Ops O", or you can quietly start printing signs for the door that say "S3".



So, how can units use a system that does'nt exist in a wide range like they did in Afg if that's not coming from somewhere ?


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## fraserdw (10 Aug 2012)

Coalition environment, your staff system morphs and blends with your partners.  I suspect with the current new doctrine in IM, that we will move to the S staff in the next few years.  I hear your pain though, I have worked in HQs for 10 years.  I know our doctrine on HQs very well, but I have never worked in a doctrinal HQ.  There is always someone who organizes the HQ based on his own ideas with the resulting chaos.  Doctrine is designed to make us work together inter-changeably, you do your own personal doctrine, the result is chaos.


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## Infanteer (11 Aug 2012)

S designation is an American military term usually used for staffs at the Battalion and Brigade/Regiment level.  TFK BGs began, at times, to adopt terminology.  It does not exist anywhere in our staff doctrine.


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## WLSC (11 Aug 2012)

I have to prepare class on this.  So, it fair to say that it does not ''officially'' exist but it's use oversea to the good will of COs and TF cmdr.


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## SeaKingTacco (11 Aug 2012)

I suppose that you are going to teach whatever you are going to teach, but you have been told (repeatedly) that the S prefix is not part of our system in the CF. 

If I were you, I would teach only that which is our doctrine.


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## WLSC (11 Aug 2012)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> I suppose that you are going to teach whatever you are going to teach, but you have been told (repeatedly) that the S prefix is not part of our system in the CF.
> 
> If I were you, I would teach only that which is our doctrine.



I got that.  The rest if for my PD.  I will not teach what's not suppose to be teach.


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