# Afghans & Western personel don't share portable toilets in Kandahar.



## The Bread Guy (26 Mar 2007)

Nothing better to report, I guess?

 Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

*NATO's potty rules shut out Afghans*
JOE FRIESEN, Globe & Mail, 26 Mar 07
Article link

KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN — Under a bizarre policy that echoes the days of segregation in the United States, Afghans who work at the NATO base at Kandahar Airfield must use separate toilets marked "local nationals only."

Several Afghans told The Globe and Mail the practice is insulting, but they are dependent on NATO for their livelihoods and reluctant to speak out.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jack Blevins, the U.S. officer in charge of administrative contracts, said the segregated toilet policy exists because the bathroom habits of the Afghans are different from those of the North Americans and Europeans who work at the base.

"We've always had this policy," Lt.-Col. Blevins said. "It's not based on a racial thing; it's just how they use the toilets. They're not used to toilets. They use squats, or holes in the ground."

One Afghan, who has worked at the base for five years as an interpreter, laughed at this suggestion.

He can't give his name because he works with the coalition and is afraid of being targeted by insurgents.

"I don't see any reason for separate bathrooms," he said. "Everybody is human, so it should be one [toilet]."

He said that foreign soldiers told him they wouldn't use the same toilets as Afghans because they are afraid of catching something contagious.

"Soldiers say they're scared of local people who might have disease," he said. "Personally, I [do] not like that, but this is the way of the army so you have to respect that."

The issue came to light when a Globe reporter tried to use the toilets near the main gate at Kandahar Airfield. The guard on duty directed the reporter to toilets 30 metres away, saying the ones directly in front of him were for the Afghans.

Lt.-Col. Blevins said he thinks of the policy as a cultural accommodation, and it makes life easier for the cleaners.

"When they [the Afghans] use our port-a-potties, they stand on the seats and it causes quite a mess," he said. "I think it's just a cultural thing."

The toilets reserved for Afghans typically have the words "local nationals" written on the door, and are a different colour than the ones reserved for non-Afghans. The toilets look the same on the inside, except the plastic seat is sometimes removed from the local national toilets. Afghans say there aren't enough toilets to accommodate them, and theirs aren't as well cleaned as the ones reserved for foreigners.

"It's not fair," said Qaseem, an Afghan interpreter who works at the base.

He said some foreigners will use the local bathrooms when the lines are long and it suits them, but local Afghans can't use the bathrooms reserved for the foreigners.

"Some of the army guys, they use the local bathroom, so we should be able to use their bathrooms, too."

As he speaks, his uncle comes over to say that the separate bathrooms are very nice, and that he's grateful to NATO for coming to Afghanistan and he hopes they will stay a long time.

Other Afghans who stand in line waiting to be searched as they leave the NATO base said they can accept having to use separate bathrooms and don't see it as a significant hardship.

A few Afghan employees have the privilege of being able to use either set of toilets because they have worked with the coalition long enough to be considered trusted agents.

Qaseem said the problem comes down to the way Afghans use water to clean themselves before praying. The foreigners don't like it, he said.

Lt.-Col. Blevins said there can be problems if water bottles, used by the Afghans in their ablutions, have to be fished out of the toilets. Although Afghans are strongly encouraged to use the toilets marked "local nationals only," they wouldn't be prevented from using another bathroom in an emergency, he said.

There are also security issues to be considered, he said. Some foreign-only bathrooms are close to the soldiers' sleeping quarters, which need to be protected.

More than 1,200 local people come through the gates of Kandahar Airfield most days, according to the Canadian guards who operate the main entrance.

They work in a variety of jobs, from manual labour to translation. They are the Afghans who, in a conflict increasingly characterized as a battle for hearts and minds, have the most direct contact with coalition forces.

Relations between the workers and military personnel range from collegial friendships to wariness and suspicion. Translators, partly because they speak English, can become quite close to some officers, while labourers required to have a permanent military escort are not treated with the same consideration.

They are hired under an Afghans-first policy, which seeks to employee as many local people as possible to ensure they see the economic benefits of the foreign presence.


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## Big Foot (26 Mar 2007)

...and this is news, how? takes "crappy" journalism to a whole new level! ;D At least they're discussing this and not something more serious. Hopefully these slow news days keep up.


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## Exarecr (26 Mar 2007)

Slow News day indeed ! Can,t wait for the inevitable NDP cry of outrage over this deep seated example of Western Racism. Given Mr. Dion,s poor command of the English language, I do hope he didn,t confuse Porta-Potty with "pot party in Afghan toilets.


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## xo31@711ret (26 Mar 2007)

For the love of... : Who writes this crap  ;D? Indeed, must have been a slow news day for this reporter. makes me wonder how often he gets out from under the wire.


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## Armymedic (26 Mar 2007)

Out of the wire, or out from under the wire? There is a difference in terms. Not that that makes any difference in this story.

Perhaps to a left leaning, uninitiated (I hesitate to use the word ignorant) non military person, such a situation as this does seem somewhat "racist". Perhaps he did not actually look into a few of those portapotties. Perhaps we should let him live in the same quarters and share food and facilities with the LEPs so that he could get an accurate feeling as to the level of segregation they are subjected to.

Perhaps after a week, he will not feel quite the same way.


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## xo31@711ret (26 Mar 2007)

Out of the wire, or out from under the wire?....oops, my mistake. Tomatoe; tomato  ;D ....I think I made my point.


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## geo (26 Mar 2007)

Benign as this article might appear.
"so what" comes to mind BUT.... 

This is IMHO, the media's next salvo against the CF involvment in Afghanistan.
While quoting an American, the writer has woven us into the story and points to racial tendancies .... which we condone!.... Can't have any of that!.. bring our boys home!

Slow day inded!

The media is working on the hearts and mind of the Cdn public!


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## aesop081 (26 Mar 2007)

xo31@711ret said:
			
		

> For the love of... : Who writes this crap  ;D?



JOE FRIESEN, Globe & Mail

 ;D


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## Jarnhamar (26 Mar 2007)

I'd give the person who wrote that story $200 if they used one of the "afghan" porta poties and could look me in the eye and say there isn't a requirement to segrigate them.


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## MarkOttawa (26 Mar 2007)

Afstan: Hot poop from the Globe and Mail
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/03/afstan-hot-poop-from-globe-and-mail.html

'Definitely a front page story--
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070326.TOILET24/TPStory/Front

Canada's "national newspaper" breaks new wind in its relentless zeal to expose Canadian complicity in human rights violations (this time by the American imperialists) in Afghanistan:



> Under a bizarre policy that echoes the days of segregation in the United States, Afghans who work at the NATO base at Kandahar Airfield must use separate toilets marked "local nationals only."
> 
> Several Afghans told The Globe and Mail the practice is insulting, but they are dependent on NATO for their livelihoods and reluctant to speak out.
> 
> ...



And maybe the Americans are just trying to protect NATO and other personnel against suicide bummers.'

Mark
Ottawa


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## Reccesoldier (26 Mar 2007)

Anyone else remember the "Bathroom Ettiquite" posters we had in Bosnia?  I wonder what the G&M would have said about the depictions of non-canadians using the toilet brush as a toothbrush would have been.


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## TAS278 (26 Mar 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I'd give the person who wrote that story $200 if they used one of the "afghan" porta poties and could look me in the eye and say there isn't a requirement to segrigate them.




HAHAHA  Sorry but I was thinking the same thing. I find it quite funny that people think now a days we would do things "just because we feel like it". It is obviously not a secret what is going on.   The media is so interwoven (through our own decisions as well) That there is no way we ever make "rookie" mistakes like the one the author is trying to insinuate. 

The whole thing is honestly humorous


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## George Wallace (26 Mar 2007)

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> Anyone else remember the "Bathroom Ettiquite" posters we had in Bosnia?  I wonder what the G&M would have said about the depictions of non-canadians using the toilet brush as a toothbrush would have been.



Yes.  I do believe it was Recceguy who drew up the first "Stickman poster".  We even went so far as to put locks on some of the 'Blue Rockets' to keep some of them sanitary for our own use.


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## Garett (26 Mar 2007)

Makes sense, they don't use them the same way we do.  They stand/squat on them, we sit on them.  Anyone work on the bases in 1999 when the Kosovar refugees were there?  If you did you'll understand what I'm getting at.


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## Jarnhamar (26 Mar 2007)

Why doesn't it mention that for sanitation reasons some bathrooms are marked "for kitchen staff only" and others are marked "for hospital patients only".


Atleast their not upset that we make blacks drink from different water fountians or sit at the back of the LAVs.
GREAT story JOE FRIESEN!


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## TCBF (26 Mar 2007)

Kandahar, Spring 2002, on the OPs, we used a small drum cut in half with a wooden cover.  There was a double layer of sandbags about three feet high around it.  You could sit there in the sun, read the National Post, have a nice 3,000 meter view and not worry about much except the Surv Op filming you on thermal.

Now and then we would drag the drum to the wire, pour in some JP8, give it a naptha kicker and have a bonfire.  I have a photo of an Engineer Sgt toasting a marshmellow over it.  Says he didn't eat it, but you know those Engineers!

 ;D

Not letting the locals use our porta-potties smacks of a certain 'second floor' mentality.  Plain sillyness.  Wanna bet it was the civvy logistics contractors who first complained and started the segregation in the first place?

   Like they care if the CF has to wear it.

But, I am all for porta-potties tagged "For Journalists Only!"


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## George Wallace (26 Mar 2007)

TCBF said:
			
		

> But, I am all for porta-potites tagged "For Journalists Only!"




Would that be the one with the Thunderflash inserted into it?


Nasty!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (26 Mar 2007)

Naw,...the REAL wobbly one.....


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## TCBF (26 Mar 2007)

That was Bosnia.  In Afghanistan, the people are more civilized and have a better understanding of hygiene.

Seriously.


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (26 Mar 2007)

On my sq there were toliets marked, "Staff only" and "females only"
When will they do an article on this offensive segeratrion?


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## Old Sweat (26 Mar 2007)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Naw,...the REAL wobbly one.....



....with the leaky roof.


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## Blackadder1916 (26 Mar 2007)

This is a serious issue!  By letting leftist journalists spread propaganda of this sort there could be repercussions in our own country or even our own homes.  With the seed of discontent now germinating in certain fellow citizens and fertilized by this (_had to get a oblique reference to s*** in here somewhere_) it will only be a matter of time before wives throughout the land relegate husbands and male children to separate toilet facilities with the justification of poor aim.


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## mckee19 (26 Mar 2007)

i dont think its racial at all, to me its like having male and female washrooms, different needs....


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## George Wallace (26 Mar 2007)

blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> .........................it will only be a matter of time before wives throughout the land relegate husbands and male children to separate toilet facilities with the justification of poor aim.



Been to Europe lately?


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## Garett (26 Mar 2007)

blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> This is a serious issue!  By letting leftist journalists spread propaganda of this sort there could be repercussions in our own country or even our own homes.  With the seed of discontent now germinating in certain fellow citizens and fertilized by this (_had to get a oblique reference to s*** in here somewhere_) it will only be a matter of time before wives throughout the land relegate husbands and male children to separate toilet facilities with the justification of poor aim.



One storey like this is no big deal, a storey a day like this will sink the will of the country.


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## Big Red (26 Mar 2007)

I guess when they can learn to use a toilet like civilized people they can be allowed to share NATO toilets.

I've seen locals stop working, drop trou, and shit on the ground next to their work, pull up thier pants and keep working.

There's a simple solution to this. Portajohns with toilet paper for westerners. All locals, KBR pakistanis/indians/bosnians etc use an outhose and hose.

Not that any of this is really news worthy.


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## Jarnhamar (26 Mar 2007)

Garett is bang on.

They don't sit on toilets to shit or piss they squat or stand. The shit goes everywhere Floor, seat, walls. 

The PPCLI company attached to the RCR battlegroup was, if I'm not mistaken , rendered non combat effective for a while during an ex when they visited petawawa on work up training. Why? Everyone got the poopy sickness with half the company in quarantined.  If you can get that sick in Canada imagine Afghanistan.

Like Big Red said, when they learn how to USE a toilet then they can.


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## Bane (26 Mar 2007)

I put forth a motion that NATO begin a standardized Porta Potty Indoctrination Course.  All NATO personnel and any personnel working with NATO will have to take this course.  There are standards for ammo, orders, logistical items and C4I integration, why not this.   I for one can't wait for the training video!


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## muskrat89 (26 Mar 2007)

There are a lot of Mexican nationals in the local workforce, here in Arizona. It is not unusual to see used toilet paper thrown on the floor next to the toilet, as that's how they did it where they came from...


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## NL_engineer (26 Mar 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Would that be the one with the Thunderflash inserted into it?
> 
> 
> Nasty!



No the arty sim that gets dropped down the vent stack.


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## MarkOttawa (26 Mar 2007)

Much more here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59223.0/all.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (26 Mar 2007)

My wife worked in the immigration section of the British Embassy in Islamabad in the mid-70s.  She has vivid memories of the footprints on the toilet seats.

Mark
Ottawa


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## McG (26 Mar 2007)

Big Red said:
			
		

> I guess when they can learn to use a toilet like civilized people they can be allowed to share NATO toilets.


All,
This comment is derogatory and uncalled for.  Big Red is not the only one to have phrased his comments along these lines either.  If you cannot make your comment without denigrating the Afghan culture, then don't make your comment.

We all know the journalist was out to lunch.  We know that Afghans do not use the toilet in the same way we do.  However, the comments like the one above can only serve to prove the journalist correct in any suggestion of racial bigotry.  


Cheers, 
The Staff


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## PMedMoe (26 Mar 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> The PPCLI company attached to the RCR battlegroup was, if I'm not mistaken , rendered non combat effective for a while during an ex when they visited petawawa on work up training. Why? Everyone got the poopy sickness with half the company in quarantined.  If you can get that sick in Canada imagine Afghanistan.



That particular illness is believed to have originated within the PPCLI _before_ they arrived in Petawawa.  As for how quickly it spread, I have three words for everyone:  *WASH YOUR HANDS!!*  Before, after, during.... 
That being said, I guess my tour in Bosnia wasn't the only one who went through nine toilet seats in a week.


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## TN2IC (26 Mar 2007)

Garett said:
			
		

> Makes sense, they don't use them the same way we do.  They stand/squat on them, we sit on them.  Anyone work on the bases in 1999 when the Kosovar refugees were there?  If you did you'll understand what I'm getting at.



The horrors.... the horrors... 


Just on other note... don't the CF Cooks have their own washrooms? I think we are pretty dirty... and minded too.. hehehe.

Regards,
TN2IC


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## MarkOttawa (26 Mar 2007)

As for the _Globe_, it is clear they will leave no turd unturned in pursuit of their agenda.
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008263.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## TN2IC (26 Mar 2007)

That explains all the guest visiting...


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## TN2IC (26 Mar 2007)

I hope they make a report in reference to army.ca/myself and the poop crisis. I am soooo buying a copy.

Regards,
TN2IC


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## TCBF (26 Mar 2007)

I think some of the scariest 'hygiene' stories come from Canada - Domestic Ops - and I mean the people we are sent to help.  Most of whom were born here and thus have no excuse.


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## Fishbone Jones (26 Mar 2007)

This one ends here. The rare few, useful comments are totally beleaguered by a whole bunch of useless ones. We complain about the stupidity and self serving agenda of the press, then go on and on putting legs under an article by a ridiculously, outlandish, tabloid style writer like Friesen. This should have been in Radio Chatter with the other News of the World batboy articles.

Closed and locked. The normal caveats apply.

*Army.ca Staff*


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