# Canadian troops wrap up operation in Zhari district



## X-mo-1979 (23 Aug 2008)

Canadian troops wrap up operation in Zhari district
Updated Sat. Aug. 23 2008 3:22 PM ET

The Canadian Press

ZHARI DISTRICT, Afghanistan -- The Canadian Forces have completed a massive offensive aimed at securing the main highway that runs through Kandahar province.

It's the same highway where three Canadian combat engineers were killed Wednesday after their vehicle rolled over an improvised explosive device.

The large mechanized operation sought to disrupt insurgent activity in an area of Zhari district where Canadian soldiers have not been present en masse since Operation Medusa in 2006.

The Canadian military does not release figures of casualties inflicted on its opponents, but unconfirmed reports suggest more than 40 insurgents were killed, including several commanders, in a series of skirmishes.

One person was detained during the operation that ended today.

Canadian soldiers also discovered a variety of bomb-making materials and weapons.

The last major offensive for this rotation of Canadian soldiers, the operation is meant to improve security for the next batch of soldiers coming into Afghanistan.

With the onset of Ramadan next month, the troops are hoping that the pace of fighting will slow down.


I read this on CTV a few minutes ago.The last line hits me kind of strange.
Who are these troops that hope the pace of fighting will slow down?Or are the media putting words in peoples mouths again.

I say lets pick it up a bit.


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## vonGarvin (23 Aug 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> *With the onset of Ramadan next month, the troops are hoping that the pace of fighting will slow down.*
> I read this on CTV a few minutes ago.The last line hits me kind of strange.
> Who are these troops that hope the pace of fighting will slow down?Or are the media putting words in peoples mouths again.
> 
> I say lets pick it up a bit.


Very good point.  I read the same article, and this went over my head.  I wonder what Sun Tzu would say about us hitting them when they are at their hardest?  Just throwing that out there...


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## Old Sweat (23 Aug 2008)

As I recall the coalition ground offensive in Gulf War 1 kicked off during Ramadan. I had a spirited discussion with J2 before the offensive started, as he at least claimed publicly that a truce would be observed during the period, while I said the Americans had said they were going to go on a certain date if Sadam didn't comply with the Security Council resolution, and they would go. (I still suspect he knew what was going to happen, but couldn't disclose it.)


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## vonGarvin (23 Aug 2008)

Hey, why not on Ramadan?  I'm Catholic, and we have a lot in common with Moslems. Days of fasting, days of feasting, weird rituals, etc.  Still, the attack on Vimy Ridge started on Easter Monday...


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## X-mo-1979 (23 Aug 2008)

Glad a few seen it my way as well. Sometimes I tend to over react.

There are a couple ways it could be interpeted...neither I like.

1. Troops telling media that they hope the fighting slows down.(WTF)
2.Media writing B/S
3.Media trying to spin the CF in a differnt fashion (I.E do not like to fight)

From what I seen from my battle group,were not there to take it easy on the enemy.We have a fixed ammount of time in that theatre to lay waste to the taliban who are destroying that country for the Afgan people.

<end rant>


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## Nauticus (23 Aug 2008)

I hope you guys don't go out and finish this thing before I get deployed


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## vonGarvin (23 Aug 2008)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> I hope you guys don't go out and finish this thing before I get deployed


Be careful of what you wish for....


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## Blakey (24 Aug 2008)

Who gives a crap if someone hopes the fighting is over for a bit? Are you here right now? Do you know what the guys have gone through in the last 6 months? Maybe they deserve a break, wouldn't you say?

Yes, I do agree with hitting the enemy whenever and wherever it is most opportune for us, that said, soldiers need a break, period. 

It is time for one (a break), IMHO *now* is the time.


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## geo (24 Aug 2008)

Whoa.... it's valium time!


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## The Bread Guy (24 Aug 2008)

Cataract Kid is right on one count - one can't push EVERYONE forever.  I think it would be safe to say the fight can still be brought to the bad guys while still having some bayonets taking a break, no?


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## BKells (24 Aug 2008)

Is there a link for this CP story?


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## Blakey (24 Aug 2008)

Anything more constructive to add geo?

Milnews: Agreed but, there is only so much that can be done with what you have (read size). If you have committed a sizable chunk then, that same chunk has to be given some downtime, I would think.


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## Dog Walker (24 Aug 2008)

Wouldn’t a slow down just make it easier to conduct the rotation of the Battle Groups?


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## BigRudy (24 Aug 2008)

I agree with Cataract kid on this one.... most, if not all of those who have walked the beat in Kandahar(or any other deployment for that matter) know that at the end of your tour, you don't necessarily have a lot of gas left in the tank. Minus your HLTA you have been givin' 'er non stop for a long, long time. Couple that with the fact that everyone hopes to be going home in a couple weeks... you can't help but take lighter steps and hope you and your friends are all there to share a congratulatory cold one at KAF very very soon. When you start a tour all you want is to be in the sh*t for 6 months and really lay the slippers to the bad guys, but come end of tour, you are worn out and your priorities shift a bit, and you look foward to a very well deserved break. Doesn't mean you aren't ready to do it again if and when the call should come, of course. It just means you are starting to see the light in the distance, at the end of a very long dark tunnel.

Anyways good on you guys for doing an amazing job over the course of your deployment! Being on the ground, it usually feels like a God awful disorganized mess the whole time you are in country(at least mine did), but by all indications you are doing it right out there


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## TheHead (24 Aug 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Whoa.... it's valium time!



No he's right though. If you're not there fighting than you shouldn't be hoping the fighting continues.  Just because it's our jobs to fight doesn't mean we want to 24/7.    

Rudy you're 100% correct.  When I Was over there in August 06 we were about to go home.  We hadn't been in a firefight for a month and we were basically on vacation in Spin Boldack.  Than with 2 weeks left my platoon got sent out to Panjawai on August 3. Sadley 4 were killed 10 were wounded that day, so close to going home.  Most of us didn't want to go, we'd still go an get the job done though. It's not like we didn't want to fight. All of us had been in tics before. It was just almost time to get on that freedom bird.

Edited to reply to Rudy.


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## Celticgirl (24 Aug 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> With the onset of Ramadan next month, the troops are hoping that the pace of fighting will slow down.
> 
> 
> I read this on CTV a few minutes ago.The last line hits me kind of strange.
> ...



I think I read this a little differently. I took it to mean that they are hoping the Taliban's attacks on our troops are fewer and farther between. 

I agree with the "pick it up" part, though. I recall that when I was teaching in the past during Ramadan, my Muslim students were all pretty useless due to their fasting during the day and staying up late at night to eat, so you have to assume that the Taliban would be similarly useless.


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## Nauticus (24 Aug 2008)

I'm going to go ahead and apologize for my comments on page 1. It was either miswritten or misread, but either way some people were linking my comment to me somehow not caring about casualties and wounded men. This isn't the case, so I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. It was merely an attempt at civilian humor, and an expression that I want to serve my country overseas. Again, if it was taken any other way than that, I apologize.


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## X-mo-1979 (24 Aug 2008)

BigRudy said:
			
		

> Anyways good on you guys for doing an amazing job over the course of your deployment! Being on the ground, it usually feels like a God awful disorganized mess the whole time you are in country(at least mine did), but by all indications you are doing it right out there



Work up training has us well prepared for a disorganised mess  ;D 
Hell I don't even get predeployment leave...score me!


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## Ex-Dragoon (24 Aug 2008)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> I'm going to go ahead and apologize for my comments on page 1. It was either miswritten or misread, but either way some people were linking my comment to me somehow not caring about casualties and wounded men. This isn't the case, so I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. It was merely an attempt at civilian humor, and an expression that I want to serve my country overseas. Again, if it was taken any other way than that, I apologize.



Well said, I am sure there are many posters glad to see your clarification on your post.

Milnet.Ca Staff


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## regulator12 (24 Aug 2008)

Been here so far for most of all the TICS and will tell you most of us in my platoon want a break and would not care if we sat in KAF for the rest of tour. And dont worry for the guys that dont want us to finish the fight...not going to happen anytime soon.


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## TheHead (24 Aug 2008)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> I'm going to go ahead and apologize for my comments on page 1. It was either miswritten or misread, but either way some people were linking my comment to me somehow not caring about casualties and wounded men. This isn't the case, so I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. It was merely an attempt at civilian humor, and an expression that I want to serve my country overseas. Again, if it was taken any other way than that, I apologize.



Oh no worries. When I first went overseas all I wanted to do was get into Fire Fights. It's the nature of the beast right?  After being in a bunch, seeing your buddies getting killed and almost getting killed yourself the novelty wears off quick.


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## Etienne (24 Aug 2008)

Not wanting to brag, but on last days of our tour,  a certain group was still doing very perilous task less than a week before decompression. A "weird" decision if you ask me, that brought serious consequences.Guys were only thinking about going home and only wanted a break. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and anyone saying something else is a fool IMHO. So wanting the pace to slow down a bit when you know that you are reaching the goal line and that you are alone, you don't want to turn around and face an opponent just for fun.

For Nauticus, it's alright..everybody thinks the same before the first time. After many tics, you just want a break.

My 2 cents

CHIMO 
Etienne


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (24 Aug 2008)

x


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## aesop081 (24 Aug 2008)

CSA 105 said:
			
		

> Not to poke holes in your experience, but war is a bit different than student life.  My experience:
> 
> While conversing with some very polite, yet firm and very ideologically driven bearded fellows carrying AKs at a checkpoint in South Lebanon, they mentioned that if a Muslim is travelling or fighting or otherwise doing Allah's bidding, then they have some 'relaxation' of the Ramadan restrictions as long as they best follow as many of the tenets of Ramadan (ie alms to the poor) as they could.
> 
> I imagine that what is good for these fellows  obviously applies to the Taliban as well, so wouldn't look for much respite.



My experience echos yours CSA. I instructed military bridging to a muslim student during ramadan and there was concern with his ability to undergo the training if he was not eating during the day. After the student had spoken to his family elders he told us that it was fine for him to eat like everyone else as it was necessary for him to do so. I doubt that the Taliban would take a break from fighting simply for ramadan.


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## geo (24 Aug 2008)

The muslim religion is quite flexible for things like that.  If you are sick, pregnant or fighting a war, you are given a dispensation from fasting during Ramadan....


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## vonGarvin (25 Aug 2008)

You guys beat me to the punch.  Just as in Roman Catholicism, there are times when fasting is not observed due to "other reasons".


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## Snafu-Bar (25 Aug 2008)

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/424723

Canadians strike back at Taliban, killing 40

PASHMUL, Afghanistan – Just five days after a Taliban bomb killed three soldiers, the Canadian military has smashed an insurgent command centre.

A Canadian Forces commander in Afghanistan is confident a recent three day operation in Zhari district has thrown insurgents off balance.
Lt.-Col. Dave Corbould says the massive, mechanized air and ground assault targeting several villages in the Pashmul area effectively destroyed an insurgent command and control centre.
It’s believed the centre was responsible for producing and planting many of the improvised explosive devices that have made the main road through Kandahar among the most dangerous in the world.

Just last week, combat engineers Sapper Stephan Stock, Cpl. Dustin Wasden and Sgt. Shawn Eades were killed by a roadside bomb on Hwy 1, just four kilometres west of a Canadian base in Zhari district.
The operation dubbed Timis Preem is believed to have resulted in the death of more than 40 insurgents, including several commanders.
Canadian troops also recovered a variety of homemade bomb making supplies and weapons, while one suspected insurgent was detained.

Six Canadians soldiers and two journalists were wounded slightly in a bomb attack early Monday.


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## Xcalibar (26 Aug 2008)

Op  Timis Preem, huh?  Any one else notice it?

I'm guessing someone in Ops and Planning thinks they have a sense of humour.  I can understand inserting a sly, pop culture reference for the troops, even though the mission is serious and the danger is great.  Still, points for coming up with the name and submitting it up the chain.

Stay safe, troops.


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## T.I.M. (26 Aug 2008)

That was the S3's idea.  It means "Lawn Mower" in Pashtu.  And that's it!  Honest!  I have no idea what you guys see when you read that.

 ;D

Almost as good as OP BUB LUB LABLAW.


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## vonGarvin (26 Aug 2008)

T.I.M. said:
			
		

> That was the *S3's* idea.  It means "Lawn Mower" in Pashtu.  And that's it!  Honest!  I have no idea what you guys see when you read that.


S3?  Oh, the *Operations Officer*.  Aha.  Got it.  Oh, in case you haven't noticed, Canada does not use the continental staff system below brigade level (officially, anyway).  Otherwise, the adjutant would be the S1, OC Admin Coy would be S4, etc and so forth.  

Anyway, keep watching those operation names.  A little birdy once told me that the next BG to go over has some real cards in its plans shop.


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## The Bread Guy (26 Aug 2008)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> Milnews: Agreed but, there is only so much that can be done with what you have (read size). If you have committed a sizable chunk then, that same chunk has to be given some downtime, I would think.



Seen - not much wiggle room left if EVERYONE's been busy....


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## Blakey (27 Aug 2008)

I have it from a good source that the name for that Op actually came out of RECCE Platoon.


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## MG34 (27 Aug 2008)

Well, good on the troops for a bit of end tour asskickery, now if we could just maintain a hiold on that bit of ground that was gained at the cost of so many, or are we doomed to deja vu all over again in the Panjawai?


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## Blakey (27 Aug 2008)

This is like ground hog day...


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## Infanteer (27 Aug 2008)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> S3?  Oh, the *Operations Officer*.  Aha.  Got it.  Oh, in case you haven't noticed, Canada does not use the continental staff system below brigade level (officially, anyway).  Otherwise, the adjutant would be the S1, OC Admin Coy would be S4, etc and so forth.



Wait for it - all that lingo, plus "XO" will make its way North....


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## T.I.M. (27 Aug 2008)

Already has in theatre.  The ANA are G's, and TFK HQ uses J's, and Battlegroup, OMLT, and our "special friends" all use S2, S3, S4, etc.


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## vonGarvin (27 Aug 2008)

T.I.M. said:
			
		

> Already has in theatre.  The ANA are G's, and TFK HQ uses J's, and Battlegroup, OMLT, and our "special friends" all use S2, S3, S4, etc.


I realise that.  I also realise that the TFK HQ at least used to use a combination of "J" and "G", depending on the function; however, the incoming BG will not be using the "S" system.  Same with incoming OMLT.  Of course, we use "common language" when speaking with certain coalition partners.  But, for now, at least, Canadian doctrine does not use the continental staff system below Bde level (again, officially).  
As for those who say "It's NATO doctrine", well, it's not like we fell out of the coconut tree yesterday and found ourselves in NATO all of a sudden (and without warning, I may add).  Remember, if we followed all NATO doctrine, then our tac hel would be army aviation, and not airforce aviation.  Just one example among many.

I know all about the staff system. I also realise that "G" means "General" not "Ground", and is used in HQ's commanded by Generals (that are not joint, combined, coalition or other).  By the rules of the continental staff system, our CMBGs (commanded by Colonels, of course) should be using "S" not "G".  But I digress.

Anyway, people talking about retention of terrain.  Winning wars is never about terrain.  It's all about defeating the enemy's will to keep fighting.

Anyway, again, I digress...


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## aesop081 (27 Aug 2008)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> if we followed all NATO doctrine, then our tac hel would be army aviation, and not airforce aviation.



We are not alone. Brit Chinooks are RAF, Dutch AH-64s are KLu.............


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## George Wallace (27 Aug 2008)

;D

I wonder how long that will last, when the wrong "GX" gets the msg and some poor weenie has created an "international" incident?


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## vonGarvin (27 Aug 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> We are not alone. Brit Chinooks are RAF, Dutch AH-64s are KLu.............


Exactly.  In fact, the NATO document on the continental staff system notes that not all member states use it.


			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> I wonder how long that will last, when the wrong "GX" gets the msg and some poor weenie has created an "international" incident?



Gimme a week or two!   >


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## T.I.M. (27 Aug 2008)

If a strategy is based on beating the Taliban in a contest of wills - battering away at them over the same ground year in, year out until they cry uncle - then it will fail.  We can thump our chests as much as we like, but these are a bunch of fanatic xenophobes inured to death and on their home turf, while we're fighting for democracies continents and oceans away with short attention spans and low casualty tolerances.  That's playing their game.

Fact is, it _is_ about terrain - physical and human.  Our inability to hold much of the first means we don't have a lot of influence over the second.  That is why we're still stuck on the edges of Zhari/Panjwayi and just temporarily manuevering into the heartland after three years of fighting.  Victory will come when we can deny the Taliban their sources of support, the most important of which comes from the acquiescence of much of the population to their presence.  It's not that most of the population of Zhari or Panjwayi _likes_ the Taliban, but they will continue to acquiesce so long as we cannot guarantee their protection.

Fundamentally, that means we have to be able to hold ground.  Once we can, then this will swing very quickly, but until we do then we're stuck fighting over the same villages, year in, year out.


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