# Canadian Forces headed to Louisiana



## JasonH (3 Sep 2005)

> *Canada sending four ships to Louisiana: Graham*
> 
> CTV.ca News Staff
> 
> ...



http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1125681799234_121090999/?hub=TopStories






The multi-role patrol frigate HMCS Toronto is part of the fleet headed to the southern U.S.





The Canadian Destroyer HMCS Athabaskan will be going to Louisiana to assist in aid efforts.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2005)

How many times do you plan on posting this?


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## rormson (3 Sep 2005)

It's good that Canada is getting involved. Hopefully it will demonstrate to the many bleeding hearts in this country who do not value the importance of our Navy, let alone the rest of the CF, that our military personnel and hardware can be used for a variety of roles.


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## JasonH (3 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> How many times do you plan on posting this?



Other post was a mistake, I was looking at the wrong forum when posted.  :-[


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## Cpl.Banks (4 Sep 2005)

Are we going to be sending any ground personel down there i.e. army?


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## patt (4 Sep 2005)

Cpl.Banks(Cdt.) said:
			
		

> Are we going to be sending any ground personel down there i.e. army?



yea, here in gagetown a plattoon of engineers were bugged out to go


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## honestyrules (4 Sep 2005)

Yes, The engineers are going for sure. Construction, heavy equipment, water purification, that sort of things... warning order is out.


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## tomahawk6 (4 Sep 2005)

They better deploy with their personal weapons. Had an incident otday with Corps of Engineer contractors under fire and the police responded killing/wounding the bad guys.


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## Scoobie Newbie (4 Sep 2005)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> They better deploy with their personal weapons. Had an incident otday with Corps of Engineer contractors under fire and the police responded killing/wounding the bad guys.



I don't think your gov't would allow that.  Hopefully we will have some bodyguards from one of your military orgainzations.


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## edadian (5 Sep 2005)

It has been a week and there is no coordinating body set up? Makes me wonder who, if anyone is running the relief? 60 countries and international orginizations are waiting to go and help now.

It is time for 'W' to lead, declare Federal control and put Rudolph Guiliani in charge of the overall effort, or someone equally capable.


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## tomahawk6 (5 Sep 2005)

Homeland Security is the lead agency. FEMA as part of Homeland Security is the coordinating agency. LTG Honore is commander of Task Force Katrina. Honore is the real deal, a no nonsense guy who gets things done.

As to personal weapons- the National Guard that first deployed into New Orleans did so without weapons. After gunfire occured/looting they were armed. All troops deploying into the area are coming with their weapons for personal protection [Fed troops] and NG troops are assisting law enforcement in securing the city. Police are in the city from all over the US including NYPD so hopefully the situation will stabilize.


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## Zoomie (5 Sep 2005)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> ... After gunfire occured/looting they were armed. All troops deploying into the area are coming with their weapons for personal protection [Fed troops] and NG troops are assisting law enforcement in securing the city.



Granted, but the initial comment still stands - CF members would not be permitted to carry weapons (much less employ them) on foreign soil without a direct communique between Ottawa and Washington - anything else would be considered an invasion by foreign troops.


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## tomahawk6 (5 Sep 2005)

I dont think you can have troops deploy anywhere without the means for self defense. A fact that Washington would sign off on. Of course by the time the Canadian contribution arrives, the security situation could be stabilized.


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## Scoobie Newbie (6 Sep 2005)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I dont think you can have troops deploy anywhere without the means for self defense. A fact that Washington would sign off on.



The red cross won't have any firearms nor will any other non-governmental helping organization.  I think its safe to assume we wouldn't either.

Also we already have dive teams there and red cross people.


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## chrisf (6 Sep 2005)

I really can't see Canadian troops being armed on American soil...


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## Slim (6 Sep 2005)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I really can't see Canadian troops being armed on American soil...



Well I've seen and worked with U.S. troops armed with live on our soil!


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## Britney Spears (6 Sep 2005)

> Well I've seen and worked with U.S. troops armed with live on our soil!



On an actual dom op? 

As an aside, 82nd ABN has occupied the French Quater, which I understand was the most trouble prone area in the old city.


















Unloaded rifles and berets tell me that the threat level isn't too high. Either that or their mere prescence is intimidation enough.


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## chrisf (6 Sep 2005)

I was about to say the same... training in a military training area and operations are two different things... one can only hope that if the situation requires that we'd be allowed to carry our pers weapons, though I'd be much happier knowing the situation didn't require.


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## GDawg (6 Sep 2005)

As an aside...whats up with the 4th pic? Is that some kind of active camo or am I loosing it?


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## Britney Spears (6 Sep 2005)

Light/movement trick.


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## Infanteer (8 Sep 2005)

Probably the same utility as the US Aircraft Carrier sitting offshore.


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## OnTrack (8 Sep 2005)

There are two interesting articles available on the USN Navy Times website

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1088297.php
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1086223.php

Read between the lines on those two articles and you'll quickly figure out where a couple of Canadian warships and a CCG vessel fit into the big picture.  As I said in a different thread, I'd be most surprised if any Canadian sailors ever get ashore to render assistance.


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## Cloud Cover (8 Sep 2005)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> Infanteer, CDN destroyers must truly be awesome, as much utility as a US aircraft carrier with its air wing and helicopters, etc...
> please don't get me wrong, nice gesture....I am not sure that such vessels are really appropriate.



I'll bet they carry more beer, for starters.


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## Infanteer (8 Sep 2005)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> Infanteer, CDN destroyers must truly be awesome, as much utility as a US aircraft carrier with its air wing and helicopters, etc...
> please don't get me wrong, nice gesture....I am not sure that such vessels are really appropriate.



Well, I'm not talking utility in absolute terms, I'm talking in what they can offer.   I'd imagine that a few destroyers will be able to patrol the devasted shoreline, launching small-craft to help rescue operations.   As well, they have helos (the aged Sea Kings) which can ferry relief supplies ashore.   IIRC, there are four vessels heading south - three Navy vessels (on destroyer and two frigates) and a coast guard cutter; they are loaded with supplies (CBC article says _"provisions including clean water, massive tents, cots, body bags, assault boats, lumber, pollution cleanup equipment, bug spray, and even diapers and baby wipes._) - since the infrastructure has been flooded/disrupted, we can't exactly just throw it all in a U-Haul.   So, the four vessels are bringing 1,000 people to help out, navy dive teams to help the local authorities, and loads of supplies that will be replenished by plane once the ships have arrived on station.   The presence of a C2 vessel and the other ships obviously allows for the Canadians to base and sustain themselves while "plugging into" US relief efforts without putting additional strain on US organizations (which, as we've seen in the news, are already stretched).

Seems like a decent contribution to me (among others, see below), but I guess, as "groundpounders", we can snigger at it if we want, but they're (including members of this forum) heading to the ground to help out.



> Louisiana senator: Thank you Canada
> Last Updated Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:12:44 EDT
> CBC News
> A Louisiana state senator has praised a Canadian search and rescue team. Senator Walter Boasso said a Vancouver-based team reached St. Bernard parish five days before the U.S. army got there.
> ...


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## Gunnar (8 Sep 2005)

> I am not sure that such vessels are really appropriate.



Depends what you want them for...they're how we're getting down there.  Just because I'm driving a (state of the art) Volkswagen doesn't mean that the supplies, training and personnel inside are without their uses.  Glad you have a custom Caddy and all, but the bottled water in the trunk has the same chemical makeup regardless.  And our vessels give us a Canadian base, a place we can go when we're not needed, a method of transport we can use to get elsewhere if and when required by the other teams that are down there.

Besides, smaller vessels should be able to make it closer to shore, and maybe (I have no idea) up the Big Muddy.  I know at least one of your HSV's is up there doing helicopter drops & such...see www.jerrypournelle.com in the mail section...his son is a Lt. Cmmdr on HSV2, and he's been talking about the kinds of things they're doing up there.  Doesn't sound beyond our capabilities.

And besides, in spite of all the daily slagging we give the US, we are one of the few who *offered*.  We know our friends.  I haven't heard much from the other NATO countries, but maybe it just doesn't make news here.  I heard that the Japanese were offering refined gasoline...which from an island country like theirs is a helluva good gesture.  What have you heard from other countries who largely owe their existence to the USA?

OnTrack:  Looked at the Navy Times article...one says that everything is well in hand, the other says your custom Caddy is too big to dock anywhere near the disaster area.  I think there's room for us.


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## OnTrack (8 Sep 2005)

Gunnar - guess we'll have to wait and see.  I would expect that ships like the COMFORT (and other vessels that have significant integral disaster relief capability) and sustainment shipping will be given alongside berths on a priority basis.  The other issue is that bringing ships into disaster areas is inherently problematic - typically shipping channels are silted up, berths/piers are wrecked.  The other problem with ships (and the COMFORT article referred to it) is that ships are not typically "stand alone" entities.  Most will require shore water and other hotel services and can be a burden on limited infrastructure.

I'll stand by my assumption that our sailors won't get ashore.  Ferrying them back and forth to offshore berths is probably not a realistic option as it would be a logistical nightmare (and frankly wouldn't be worth the effort).

By the way, I'm not sneering at the Canadian contribution.  It's an important gesture on behalf of our country, our military and it certainly isn't lost on the navy.  The CMS and his staff must be "lovin' every minute of it" - first in (in a large way) again...good for the inter-service budget wars.


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## EW (8 Sep 2005)

Infanteer had a similar item, but I thought this article from Reuters was worth a look.

That rescue team from B.C. did a truly outstanding job. While the situation on the ground was still in a state of near chaos, they went to work, and saved lives.   Bravo Zulu .....

Canadians beat U.S. Army to New Orleans suburb
08 Sep 2005 05:08:07 GMT
Source: Reuters

BATON ROUGE, La., Sept 7 (Reuters) - A Canadian search-and-rescue team reached a flooded New Orleans suburb to help save trapped residents five days before the U.S. military, a Louisiana state senator said on Wednesday.
The Canadians beat both the Army and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the U.S. disaster response department, to St. Bernard Parish east of New Orleans, where flood waters are still 8 feet (2.4 metres) deep in places, Sen. Waler Boasso said.
"Fabulous, fabulous guys," Boasso said. "They started rolling with us and got in boats to save people."
"We've got Canadian flags flying everywhere."
The stricken parish of 68,000 people was largely ignored by U.S. authorities who scrambled to get aid to New Orleans, a few miles (km) away. Boasso said residents of the outlying parishes had to mount their own rescue and relief efforts when Hurricane Katrina roared ashore on Aug. 29.
The U.S. government response to the disaster has been widely criticized. Politicians and editorial writers have called for the resignation of top Bush administration officials.
Boasso said U.S. authorities began airdropping relief supplies to St. Bernard last Wednesday, the same day the Canadian rescue team of about 50 members arrived from Vancouver, nearly 2,200 miles (3,540 km) away.
"They chartered a plane and flew down," he said.
Two FEMA officials reached the parish on Sunday and the U.S. Army arrived on Monday, he said.
"Why does it take them seven days to get the Army in?" Boasso asked.
He speculated that the smaller parishes suffered because the focus was on New Orleans, the famous home of jazz and Mardi Gras.
As for the Canadians, Boasso gave thanks for their quick work.
"They were so glad to be here," he said. "They're still here. They are actually going door-to-door looking in the attics" for people to rescue, he said.


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## EW (8 Sep 2005)

Another story of Canadians helping out, in this case not directly in Louisiana, but they are freeing up American assets while staying close enough to Canada to return home in case of a major event.

Two Canadian Search and Rescue choppers to stay in Boston area
Last Updated Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:37:23 EDT 
CBC News
Two Canadian Search and Rescue helicopters will stay in the Boston area until at least Friday. 

The two Canadian choppers were sent to help the U.S. Coast Guard off Cape Cod because American officials sent most of their aircraft to the Gulf Coast area to assist with Hurricane Katrina relief efforts. 

Canadian Forces Capt. Doug MacNair said Wednesday that U.S. officials will re-assess their needs before deciding whether the Canadian helicopters will be sent back to their bases at Happy Valley-Goose Bay, N.L., and Bagotville, Que. 

MacNair said the Canadian air crews have taken part in two search and rescue missions since they were sent to the states.


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## The Bread Guy (8 Sep 2005)

If this is true, why are we sending a Coast Guard ship?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/09/08/1207740-cp.html

"The Sir William Alexander, an 18-year-old Arctic Class vessel, was designed to operate in cold climates and will face some challenges the closer it sails to the hot, hurricane-ravaged coast of Louisiana. Since its diesel engines are designed to use the frigid waters of the Far North to keep cool, the ship will have to reduce speed the further south it travels to avoid overheating. That's why the ship will take seven to 10 days to arrive in the Gulf of Mexico - about four days behind the navy's humanitarian convoy, led by the destroyer HMCS Athabaskan."

Happy to hear from sailors who can enlighten us on this.


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## edadian (9 Sep 2005)

I believe the Alexander is designed for repairing bouys and other navigation aids. Certainly the gulf coast could use this ability to get navigation back to normal.


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## Meridian (9 Sep 2005)

I was just thinking.... even if we dont go ashore... Im sure having military vessels sitting off the coast would help with covering the normal coast guard duties.... the gulf coast isnt exactly known for being the quietest area, especially for customs and USCG missions with all the drugs and 'migrants in the area.....  since all these coast guard choppers are busy in the US, I wouldnt be surprised if Canada drifted down.. Plus, in International Waters...


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## George Wallace (9 Sep 2005)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> ..., maybe they can bring along a few US military deserters with them? :threat:



 ;D

Do you think their ulterior motives will have changed any?


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