# ZAP Number?



## Matt_Fisher (27 Nov 2009)

Do the CFs currently use a ZAP number system similar to the British Army?

For the uninitiated, ZAP numbers are set up so that it's possible to send personal information, i.e. casualty identification over insecure means without overtly identifying the identity of the person. 

A British Forces ZAP number is made up of the first 2 letters of the person's surname with the last 4 digits of their service number. 

If the CFs are using a similar system, without violating OPSEC, can somebody tell me how it's setup?  

CPGear is looking to do a Canadianized version of the badge pictured.  Shown additionally is a prototype of what we're going to be calling a 'Battle Badge'.  Any information on a Canadian type ZAP system would be greatly appreciated in terms of formatting such a badge.

Cheers,

Matt


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## dapaterson (27 Nov 2009)

Yes; and I don't know the details.


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## 392 (27 Nov 2009)

On 3-08, we were simply using service numbers complete, which was a change from Roto 4/0 when we were still using ZAP numbers. I don't know when the change occurred, but that is what we were using  :nod:


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## Strike (27 Nov 2009)

392 said:
			
		

> On 3-08, we were simply using service numbers complete, which was a change from Roto 4/0 when we were still using ZAP numbers. I don't know when the change occurred, but that is what we were using  :nod:



There are still some units who use the ZAP number.  Not sure how they are decided upon and may change by the Op or could be issued to you at the beginning of your posting.  The ones I've seen (and used) did NOT reflect our SN.


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## ModlrMike (27 Nov 2009)

We stopped using ZAP numbers on 3-08 for several reasons, chief amonst them:

a. the ZAP list was never very well protected (every CP had one);
b. there was occasional overlap from partial, previous or following rotos; and 
c. the service number is sufficiently unique as to accurately ID individuals.

That being said, I don't know if future ROTOs used the ZAP system.


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## Sig_Des (27 Nov 2009)

Had a ZAP in '07. Didn't have one this year.


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## Matt_Fisher (28 Nov 2009)

So would it be better just to do the badge with the following stuff:
-Canadian Flag
-Rank (either abbreviated, i.e. Sgt, or the actual rank symbol?)
-Blood Type & Drug Allergy Info
-Service Number

I'll try and get a preview of such a formatted 'ZAP' Battle Badge done up next week.


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## greentoblue (28 Nov 2009)

Matt:

On roto 8 that's what some of us had made up from the sewing shop on the KAF board walk.  It was the same size as the british one since the shop already had the shapes pre-made.  It had:
- Cdn flag in the left corner
- Svc No.
- Name & rank
- Blood type/NKDA (No known drug allergies)

We left off the rank insignia though.  The quality wasn't great but servicable.

Cheers.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Nov 2009)

greentoblue said:
			
		

> Matt:
> 
> On roto 8 that's what some of us had made up from the sewing shop on the KAF board walk.  It was the same size as the british one since the shop already had the shapes pre-made.  It had:
> - Cdn flag in the left corner
> ...



How is this better than dog tags plus the usual flag on the left shoulder?


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## ballz (28 Nov 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> How is this better than dog tags plus the usual flag on the left shoulder?



I dunno but those patches look wicked. You look good you play good!


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## greentoblue (28 Nov 2009)

First off, an edit - it was Roto 6 in 2008.  (My bad.)

Second, you could stick those velcro patches on the velcro on your body armour, under your helmet band and, in my case, on my 5.11 tactical bag that I use instead of the small pack.


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## NL_engineer (28 Nov 2009)

greentoblue said:
			
		

> Matt:
> 
> On roto 8 that's what some of us had made up from the sewing shop on the KAF board walk.  It was the same size as the british one since the shop already had the shapes pre-made.  It had:
> - Cdn flag in the left corner
> ...



I also had one of those done up, and had it on my IFAK.  I know people that had them on there Frag vests etc.



			
				daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> How is this better than dog tags plus the usual flag on the left shoulder?



Yes, but not everyone I worked with had them around their necks (on a belt loop, boot, etc).


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## vanislerev (1 Dec 2009)

I havent seen anyone employing ZAP numbers on this roto (3-09).
And is the Blood type really necessary? Lets face it, Role 3 isnt going to read that patch to determine what to fill you back up with.... or are we just going for LCF?


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## NL_engineer (2 Dec 2009)

vanislerev said:
			
		

> I havent seen anyone employing ZAP numbers on this roto (3-09).
> And is the Blood type really necessary? Lets face it, Role 3 isnt going to read that patch to determine what to fill you back up with.... or are we just going for LCF?



My COC on 1-09 wanted blood type written on everything.


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## Neill McKay (2 Dec 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> My COC on 1-09 wanted blood type written on everything.



I'd be interested in hearing from someone in the medical field about the utility of doing this.  I had the impression that blood is always typed (both parties) before a transfusion regardless of what information is available.  (I assume the blood type is on peoples' ID discs so that when the Doc says "I need some O+ -- who has it?" nobody is left wondering.)


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## daftandbarmy (8 Dec 2009)

We used Zap numbers in Northern Ireland (back when the earth was still cooling) primarily to avoid the name of a casualty leaking out over insecure means, transmitted over insecure police means, or being overheard on the streets by a civvy who happened to be standing next to a soldier with a radio. Sometime those civvies were reporters, so it was a good idea to be as secure as possible so that the first person the NOK heard from was one of us and not the 'gutter press'. We didn't write it on anything except the Pl Comd's/Sgt's notebook, and a file kept in the Ops room. I rember that it was a supreme pain in the ring piece to maintain the bloody lists
 as people came and went in the usual course of operational duty.

These days, I doubt it's relevant. And to have secure information; like numbers, blood groups, names, favourite colours etc, plastered all over your uniform merely gives away low level information that a potential foe can make use of. And to have this data attached via the dubiously secure means of velcro to a shoulder is asking for it to find its way into the wrong hads everytime you take off a day sack or something...

Rank and national identification is good enough. Anything else should be held by the CoC.

Right then, must away to feed the Stegasaurus...


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## ModlrMike (8 Dec 2009)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> I'd be interested in hearing from someone in the medical field about the utility of doing this.  I had the impression that blood is always typed (both parties) before a transfusion regardless of what information is available.  (I assume the blood type is on peoples' ID discs so that when the Doc says "I need some O+ -- who has it?" nobody is left wondering.)



Writing your blood type on your gear is absolutely useless. As is getting a tattoo with the same information. We would never use these sources as our guide. Your ID discs or med records would be our source of information. More likely, we would do a type and screen while pushing some O negative and FFP into you.


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## vanislerev (28 Dec 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> My COC on 1-09 wanted blood type written on everything.



And that is how the problem starts. At the end of your roto everyone returned their kit to clothing in KAF. How can anyone be sure the blood type written on you kit is actually yours, or some guys from 3 rotos prior?


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## MikeL (28 Dec 2009)

vanislerev said:
			
		

> And that is how the problem starts. At the end of your roto everyone returned their kit to clothing in KAF. How can anyone be sure the blood type written on you kit is actually yours, or some guys from 3 rotos prior?




Easy solution, we use common sense... get a black sharpie an blacken the old info...


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## Matt_Fisher (5 Jan 2010)

So here's what we're calling our 'ZAP # Battle Badge'
We've got a national identifier (Canadian Flag), rank, blood type, drug allergy information, and the member's service number formatted onto a 4" x 4" Velcro attached patch.


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