# Long stretches of Leave w/o Pay? (merged)



## sirux0r (24 Aug 2012)

So say I finished my initial 4 year contract then decided to not resign a new contract because I want to backpack Europe for a year or do my own thing before I do my next "21 years".. what consequences may that have on me? 
I know I'm not guaranteed employment when I come back in but do I keep my rank(One Hook) even if I sign in as a different element and trade?
I'm in the Regular forces and in the Navy element, I may want to change elements.
Thanks!


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## PuckChaser (24 Aug 2012)

You're looking at a year or more wait from the time you apply and are not guaranteed a job just because you were in the CF before. I'd think long and hard about whether having long term, semi-stable employment is worth losing over a backpacking trip.


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## Journeyman (24 Aug 2012)

I cannot provide any insights into the administration because it's not my area.

Unlike PuckChaser though, I would encourage you to take the year and backpack. It will provide you with all kinds of memories to accompany the next "21 years," as opposed to spending those years thinking "if only..."

 :2c:


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## Spooks (24 Aug 2012)

Isn't there the option to take a year LWOP without losing your job? If so, then the OP would just re-sign and keep his job with putting in an OT. That's what I understand from my experience with administration


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## George Wallace (24 Aug 2012)

As it appears that the OP wants to "sign on the dotted line" in the future towards another 21 years and a pension after 25 years service, I would like to point out that LWOP has an affect on that pension calculation.  He would have to serve that time, plus a day ( to be safe ), to be eligible for that 25 year pension (ie.  serve 26 years for the 25 year pension).  Is it worth it, or would he be better to Release, and then reapply for enrolment in another Trade or Element (as he indicated) when he is ready?


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## Biohazardxj (24 Aug 2012)

Read the Leave Manual, Section 8.  Back Packing probably would not accepted as grounds for LWOP.  You can take LWOP for up to 14 days for personnel reasons with the COs approval, 30 day with the Command of a Command approval, and over 30 with CDS approval.   So,  if you want a year off you will have to release from the CF and then try to get back in down the road.  I wouldn't hold my breath for a quick re-enrollment.


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## Jarnhamar (24 Aug 2012)

Or

do your initial stint. Resign for 21 years. Go AWOL. Backpack for a year. Come home, pay a fine, spend some time in jail, go back to work.

You still get privates pay in jail dude!


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## Kat Stevens (24 Aug 2012)

What?  You still get paid in jail now?  When did that change?


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## Neolithium (24 Aug 2012)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> What?  You still get paid in jail now?  When did that change?


Not sure but at my old unit I was one of the people who went to pick up a member from DB, day after we were at the clerks having him get his ration remit to boot.  :


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## bridges (29 Aug 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I cannot provide any insights into the administration because it's not my area.
> 
> Unlike PuckChaser though, I would encourage you to take the year and backpack. It will provide you with all kinds of memories to accompany the next "21 years," as opposed to spending those years thinking "if only..."
> 
> :2c:



I totally, totally agree.  Casting off on your own for a while is a worthwhile thing, and you cannot buy or replace the experiences you'll have.   That said, there will probably be some opportunities in your military career for some travelling "adventure" as well - obviously, a different experience than travelling on your own, but don't necessarily approach your next 21 years as if they're a ball & chain.  In fact, that's probably a bad idea for anything in life.  

Sounds to me like the biggest question from the DND end of things is, would they make you do basic training over again?  Hopefully someone will offer an educated response on that.  Whatever you decide, good luck!


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## Blackadder1916 (29 Aug 2012)

> End of Contract, taking a year off then *resigning*?





> So say I finished my initial 4 year contract then decided to not *resign* a new contract . . .





> . . . *Resign* for 21 years . .



Sorry, but after seeing this topic pop-up again, I just can't refrain from a pedantic moment.  Sometimes (well, always) correct spelling is important, especially when both concepts are being discussed at the same time.

Resign - give up one's employment
Re-sign - sign again




			
				GhostofJacK said:
			
		

> . . .  If so, then the OP would just *re-sign* and keep his job with putting in an OT.  . . .



Thank you for not making me totally lose faith.


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## PuckChaser (29 Aug 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> I totally, totally agree.  Casting off on your own for a while is a worthwhile thing, and you cannot buy or replace the experiences you'll have.



Steady, long term employment is a worthwhile thing too. The good times and experiences will really benefit him when he's waiting in line at the recruiting center for a year or more trying to get back into the CF.


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Aug 2012)

Do an OT to RMS Clerk they have the most OUTCAN posting of all the trades (133 or something like that?).  I was checking for someone last spring and there were vacant Cpl/LS ones in Germany (GK so likely going to vanish but there are more OUTCANs than just GK)

Keep job, pension, etc, go OUTCAN to Europe for 3-4 years....hey, you'll never know if you don't try.  I have a buddy that has been in Brunssum the past 4ish years and lovin' it.


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## mariomike (29 Aug 2012)

sirux0r said:
			
		

> I'm in the Regular forces and in the Navy element, <snip>



You may wish to take a look at this topic:

"Foreign Exchange programs??":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101486.0

The pdf. attached to reply #12 may be of interest.

"The RCN is currently engaged in a programme called REGULUS."

"RCN builds ties with other nations":
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/tml/article-eng.asp?id=17&y=2011&m=12

Not quite what you were looking for, but it would save you having to re-apply in these uncertain times.


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## DAA (29 Aug 2012)

sirux0r said:
			
		

> So say I finished my initial 4 year contract then decided to not resign a new contract because I want to backpack Europe for a year or do my own thing before I do my next "21 years".. what consequences may that have on me?
> I know I'm not guaranteed employment when I come back in but do I keep my rank(One Hook) even if I sign in as a different element and trade?
> I'm in the Regular forces and in the Navy element, I may want to change elements.




So first and foremost, thanks for serving!  If you choose to leave the CF and then at some point in time "rejoin", then it all depends on how long you have been away.  From what I can tell, you have less than 4 years of service and as such the ranks of "Corporal and below" are uncontrolled, which means that you may very well be credited with your previous service time.   It is pretty much broken down into the following groups:

a.  out for less than a year (100% credit);
b.  out for more than a year, but less than 3 years;  and
c.  out for more than 3 years but less than 5 years.

I don't have access to the DWAN at the moment but at the level I think your at, you will not be losing much if you get out and get back in.

On a side note, I don't understand why you would want to voluntarily leave long term employment with full benefits and a guaranteed pension down the road, just to backpack Europe for a few months?  With no guarantee of employment with the CF when you return, if that is your hope?

Sorry I can't be of much more assistance.


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Aug 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> Sorry I can't be of much more assistance.



Hook the OP up with an OT to your trade and one of those jammy OUTCANs  ;D


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## DAA (29 Aug 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Hook the OP up with an OT to your trade and one of those jammy OUTCANs  ;D



I get 3-4 calls or emails a week from Reg F and Res F pers looking for either a Reg Force posn or Class B with our unit.....from the ranks of Pte through to Maj.  If we could have the CM post them to us or hire the on Class B, we sure as s''t would.........


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## The_Falcon (29 Aug 2012)

FYI, even with prior service re-enrolling is not exactly a quick process.  Especially if your intent is to travel Europe for a year, as that will automatically guarantee you will require a pre-secure query to be sent, which may come back requiring you to complete a full pre-secure assessment (which can take months to complete).  So your one year break, can easily stretch out into perhaps 1.5-2 years (or longer) from the CF, presuming you get back in.


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## bridges (30 Aug 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Steady, long term employment is a worthwhile thing too. The good times and experiences will really benefit him when he's waiting in line at the recruiting center for a year or more trying to get back into the CF.



Sure - there is more than one way to accumulate "life experience".  He sounded like he didn't want to be spending the next 20 years of his nice, safe job wondering what a year off would have been like.  When it comes down to it, I think each person would have to assess this for themselves, based on where they are in their life, what's more important to them at that moment and what they're willing to risk/delay/give up altogether in order to have it.



			
				Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> FYI, even with prior service re-enrolling is not exactly a quick process.  Especially if your intent is to travel Europe for a year, as that will automatically guarantee you will require a pre-secure query to be sent, which may come back requiring you to complete a full pre-secure assessment (which can take months to complete).  So your one year break, can easily stretch out into perhaps 1.5-2 years (or longer) from the CF, presuming you get back in.



 :nod:   Good point.


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## dangles (30 Aug 2012)

Why can't you backpack during your vacation time?


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## Paladium (30 Aug 2012)

I think that if you get out to go backpacking you are rolling the dice when it comes to getting back in.  Besides the minimum one year waiting period to re-apply you, as previously mentioned, may have to complete a pre-security clearance that could take a year or more.  That might not even be initiate until they get your old docs that can take 6 months or more.

If what you really want to do is change occupations you can apply for an Occupational Transfer and that is available in the year you complete 48 months - which is when your contract ends.  We had one person who was able to extent his terms of service to see if he would be picked up by the selection board.  He had meaningful work during the period but in the end wasn't picked up - in fact his MOSID only lets out a few people a year and he was over the limit.  - this could happen to you as well if you are a hard navy trade that is short.

Voluntary Occupation Transfer Program (VOT) opens up about now runs to around Nov and they make therr selections by the March time-frame.

I agree with the one individual who said if you want to hike - hike when you are on leave.  Of note you lose some benefits if you have broken service but you would need to talk to releases about that.

Whatever you do decide - good luck.


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## Keen4 (15 Oct 2012)

Hi, I am thinking about joining the Canadian Forces but absolutely love travelling for extended periods of time. I guess what I'm asking is if it's possible to get leave without pay for 6 months or a year to pursue my travels, and if so, how do I do it? I just don't think 4 or 5 weeks a year will cut it for me and I don't think I could wait until retirement to be able to travel for over a month at a time again.


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## ModlrMike (15 Oct 2012)

The short answer: no.

The long answer:

Chapter 8 of the CF Leave Policy Manual:

The purpose of Leave Without Pay (LWOP) is to allow Regular Force members the opportunity to remain in the CF during periods when no service is rendered. Except on enrolment, members must request LWOP. The reason for the LWOP must be in the interest of the CF.


It is unlikely that any competent approving authority would construe your desire to travel to be in the interest of the CF.


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## Shamrock (15 Oct 2012)

From the Leave Manual:


Personal Reasons	Regular Force members	
CO for up to 14 days;
OCC for up to 30 days, including the LWOP already granted by the CO; and
Applications in excess of 30 days staffed to DGRMC with a recommendation from the CO and OCC for approval by or under the authority of the CDS.


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## bridges (15 Oct 2012)

Keep in mind that CF service often involves travel as well - but perhaps not under the conditions you had in mind.


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## The Bread Guy (15 Oct 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that CF service often involves travel as well - but perhaps not under the conditions you had in mind.


Like the tagline of some members here says, "I'm paid to travel - I just don't get to pick where."  ;D


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## Scott (15 Oct 2012)

I know for a fact that this thread has been done before...


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## Fishbone Jones (15 Oct 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that this thread has been done before...



Within the last few months, IIRC.


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## bridges (17 Oct 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Within the last few months, IIRC.



I remember a similar discussion too.  This one, maybe?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107201.0.html


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## aesop081 (17 Oct 2012)

Keen4 said:
			
		

> Hi, I am thinking about joining the Canadian Forces but absolutely love travelling for extended periods of time. I guess what I'm asking is if it's possible to get leave without pay for 6 months or a year to pursue my travels, and if so, how do I do it? I just don't think 4 or 5 weeks a year will cut it for me and I don't think I could wait until retirement to be able to travel for over a month at a time again.



Yes, it is possible. I personaly know one Captain who took 1 year LWOP to be a teacher (or something like that) on one of those "sail around the world" schools on a boat.

That being said, it doesn't just magicaly happen. The CF doesn't exists to give you time off - paid or otherwise. You occupy a position that is now going unfilled. The regulation as far as approval authoroty has already been posted here.

If traveling for extended periods is your priority, *IMHO*, please find employment somewhere else. I need people who show up for work (that takes them all over the world in the first place), not some guy who shows up, takes up a spot and then disapears on LWOP.


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## The Bread Guy (17 Oct 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> I remember a similar discussion too.  This one, maybe?
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107201.0.html


Good catch - merge to follow....


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## dimsum (17 Oct 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Like the tagline of some members here says, "I'm paid to travel - I just don't get to pick where."  ;D



Why thank you, I'll be collecting my royalties now


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## Journeyman (17 Oct 2012)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Why thank you, I'll be collecting my royalties now


They're paid out in MilPoints.   Enjoy.


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