# Will you vote NDP in the next election?



## Sonnyjim (31 Jan 2008)

Just wanted to bring attention to the latest statement by the NDP's fearless leader Jack Layton. He believes that the war against the Taliban is un-winable and he sticks by his view of pulling us out asap no iffs/ands/or butts. Does his argument about history repeating itself have any bearing with the technology and experience that our troops bring in our modern military?  Take a read and let me know what you think.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/afghan_cda_layton


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## Mike Baker (31 Jan 2008)

Well, if the election is in the fall, after my birthday, no, I won't. Yes, there are _some_ things that I have to agree with the NDP on, but with their disrespect to our job in Afghanistan, I will never vote for them. Just my 2 cents.


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## Lumber (31 Jan 2008)

Without reading the article: No.


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## Shamrock (31 Jan 2008)

It's a shame Mr. Layton can't take his own advice.



> "No one. And historical experience shows that it's been impossible - whether it be Alexander the Great, the British in the 19th century, or the Russians in the 20th century.
> 
> "We're saying let's recognize these historical realities."



*Cough*last time we had federal NDP governance was?*cough*


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## SweetNavyJustice (31 Jan 2008)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..........  oh, were you serious? ........  No, probably not.


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## a_majoor (31 Jan 2008)

Oh, Jack:

Kandahar is the local rendition of Alexander, who conquered the place around 326 BC. The British essentially dictated Afghan foreign policy from the mid 1800's to their withdrawal in 1923 (and they withdrew their influence on Afghanistan because they were broke due to WWI).

The Russians tried to conquer Afghanistan and failed, but they did it in a stupid way. Had the former USSR had the resources to carry on (and remember they were trying to conquer Afghanistan as their economy was collapsing [the wonders of a socialistic planned economy, but we can talk about that on a separate thread, eh, Jack?]). If they had done this in the 1960's, they probably could have imposed a Roman peace.

So to correct your quote:



> And historical experience shows that it's been impossible - whether it be Alexander the Great, the British in the 19th century, or ISAF in this new millenium


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## CougarKing (31 Jan 2008)

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Canadian Politics" thread instead of in the "International Situation and World News" thread?  Foreign Policy is indeed discussed here, but come on, this is Jack Layton we're talking about...  :  ;D


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## vonGarvin (31 Jan 2008)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The Russians tried to conquer Afghanistan and failed, but they did it in a stupid way. Had the former USSR had the resources to carry on (and remember they were trying to conquer Afghanistan as their economy was collapsing [the wonders of a socialistic planned economy, but we can talk about that on a separate thread, eh, Jack?]). If they had done this in the 1960's, they probably could have imposed a Roman peace.


Outstanding point.  I am sick of hearing how "Afghanistan repelled the Soviets", when in fact, they withdrew because they couldn't afford it.  They were losing the Cold War - fast - and a draw down in Afghanistan was the only option due to increased military spending by the United States.  

Consider how the Soviets dealt with East Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia when the US was "otherwise occupied".


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## Rodahn (31 Jan 2008)

In a word, No, Nyet, Non, Nichts. Either for Mr (cough) Layton nor any of his sycophants......


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## stealthylizard (31 Jan 2008)

I voted for them in my first federal election.  Fresh out of high school and didn't know any better.  Glad they didn't win.  Nope, I will never vote NDP again, especially seeing as how I can't see myself voting Grit either, at least not in the near future.


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## Old Ranger (1 Feb 2008)

Jack Bin Ladden with the moral confusion of what being not only Canadian but Human...........

Me thinks NOT!


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## socialhandgrenade (1 Feb 2008)

If my balls where on fire,and voting NDP was water .I would rather pound out the flames.


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## Flip (1 Feb 2008)

Vote for the NDP?

Not on your or any one else's sweet nellie!

I had an NDP candidate on my front porch once.
I told him to get the hell off.


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## PPCLI Guy (1 Feb 2008)

At least they have a clearly established and consistent view on AStan (repellant as it may be) that is immune to the latest opinion poll.


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## CrazyCanuck (1 Feb 2008)

I will never vote for anyone who as far as I am concerned openly supports the position of our enemies through their policies.


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## RangerRay (1 Feb 2008)

After what the Socialist Horde did to my province during the 1990's?  Nein danke!


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## IanAlexander (1 Feb 2008)

Flip said:
			
		

> Vote for the NDP?
> 
> Not on your or any one else's sweet nellie!
> 
> ...



I had an NDP candidate at my door once too. I asked lots of questions and acted really interested in what he had to say. After a while he was trying to extract himself without being rude but I kept it up. Finally, I told him that I would never vote NDP and that I hoped I wasted enough of his time that we wouldn't have the time to corrupt someone else who had a weaker will.

It was a waste of my time too, but I considered it a public service.


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## Roy Harding (1 Feb 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Shouldn't this thread be in the "Canadian Politics" thread instead of in the "International Situation and World News" thread?  Foreign Policy is indeed discussed here, but come on, this is Jack Layton we're talking about...  :  ;D



Good point.

Done.


Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff


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## George Wallace (1 Feb 2008)

IanAlexander said:
			
		

> It was a waste of my time too, but I considered it a public service.



 ;D

Well done, you!


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## Mike Baker (1 Feb 2008)

IanAlexander said:
			
		

> I had an NDP candidate at my door once too. I asked lots of questions and acted really interested in what he had to say. After a while he was trying to extract himself without being rude but I kept it up. Finally, I told him that I would never vote NDP and that I hoped I wasted enough of his time that we wouldn't have the time to corrupt someone else who had a weaker will.
> 
> It was a waste of my time too, but I considered it a public service.


Oh that's just grand ;D


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## geo (1 Feb 2008)

Like Military intelligence 

Vote NDP
Oxymoron!


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## George Wallace (1 Feb 2008)

Now was that with an "i" or a "I"?  Big difference.   ;D


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## Roy Harding (1 Feb 2008)

To the original poster:

Given the nature of this particular board, I'm not sure what reaction you expected to your question (actually - I AM sure of the reaction you're getting, I'm NOT sure of your motivation for positing the question here).  Nor do I expect you'll find a true cross-section of Canadian thought here - were you perhaps baiting the membership for silly/over the top quotes?

I'm not accusing you of such intentions - just inviting you to clarify your reasoning for posting this particular question on this particular board.


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## God56 (1 Feb 2008)

I'd vote for them in a provincial election but never in a federal election I'd leave that for parties that actually understand the consequences of their actions


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## Sonnyjim (1 Feb 2008)

Well, I had read this article and it made me think back to a history paper I had wrote in University about the occupation of the Soviets and their contribution to the rise of the Taliban etc etc. As many people have already stated in this particular forum topic, Layton is mearly stating something that is an uneducated common view of people who like to quote things to support their views and sound smart, but really have no idea what they're talking about(if this makes any sense in itself). I am new to this forum, so I wasn't sure about the type of reception I would recive from a posting such as this one. I was however interested to see if there are any NDP supporters on this forum and if there were, what they think about his latest comments. And in the highly-likely event that nobody supports him, if his statements in their minds have any legality in the least (which has already been stated as having absolutely none) (side-note: just like everything else he says).


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## a_majoor (1 Feb 2008)

God56 said:
			
		

> I'd vote for them in a provincial election but never in a federal election I'd leave that for parties that actually understand the consequences of their actions



They didn't understand the consequences of their actions in Ontario, so voting for them in a Provincial election makes about as much sense a voting for them in a national election. (Even voting for "left leaning" candidates in Municipal elections will provide you the same results up close and personal.....)

From personal observation, there seems to be only a small pool of NDP candidates (thank goodness), since I see the same names at every election; municipal, provincial and national. I guess if they run in every possible election every time they will eventually get lucky.


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## Teflon (1 Feb 2008)

Vote NDP - Now why would I do a dumb thing like that?


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## Bigrex (1 Feb 2008)

Well for the exception of Peter Stoffer, who happens to be my representative and the only MP who actually gives a crap about veteran's issues, I don't have any time for the NDP, but Peter has my vote because I know I can keep him on the hill and fighting for me, without realistically having an NDP PM. I just wish opposition MPs could be cabinet ministers because I feel Peter would do what was required with the Veterans Affairs portfolio.


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## Celticgirl (1 Feb 2008)

Then there's Stephane Dion. Let's let the Afghan army defend our troops, eh?  Dept. of National Defence, minus the defence. :


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/canada_afghan_canada_col


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## God56 (3 Feb 2008)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> They didn't understand the consequences of their actions in Ontario, so voting for them in a Provincial election makes about as much sense a voting for them in a national election. (Even voting for "left leaning" candidates in Municipal elections will provide you the same results up close and personal.....)



Well then I guess there really is no wining only who can lose the least.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Feb 2008)

I can't imagine voting for a communist party, no matter what they're called.


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## uzi (3 Feb 2008)

no. i'd like a party between conservative and liberal.


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## CrazyCanuck (3 Feb 2008)

uzi said:
			
		

> no. i'd like a party between conservative and liberal.



Ya they're called independents. There's really nothing between conservative and liberal in Canada, they're so similar, sometimes the only way to really distinguish between the two is by their leaders.


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## blacktriangle (3 Feb 2008)

NO.


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## 1feral1 (3 Feb 2008)

Not in a 1000 yrs!


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## eurowing (3 Feb 2008)

No!
No!
No!
No!

Sheesh.  Google Socialist International...  never mind... look here http://www.socialistinternational.org/maps/english/northa.htm

Socialism is such a huge success globally that we should leap right in.  Riiight.  Long live the wasted vote.


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## Armymedic (3 Feb 2008)

Being from Sask, I have voted NDP in provincial elections. But never ever have I, nor would I, vote NDP in a federal election.


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## medicineman (3 Feb 2008)

I'm laughing to hard to answer still...NDP= Not Destined for Power.

MM


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## a_majoor (3 Feb 2008)

Although it seems pretty clear "we" will not be giving them our vote, it is also clear there is a three or more way split happening in the left wing of Canadian politics.

The Liberals have been steering hard to the left under Mr. Dion, and seem mystified to discover there are already political parties for that demographic. The Liberals themselves are split between the Chretien and Martin factions, although they seemed more centerist under Chretien. The NDP themselves see the Greens as a rival, and in Quebec, the BQ combine "Nationalism" with "Socialism" (and we all know how well that combination works). Of course there is also that one per cent of the vote the Marxist Leninist and Communist parties fight so vigorously to capture.

In practical terms, if the NDP can take advantage of the collapsing fortunes of the Liberals, while checking the Greens into the wall, they might actually emerge as either the official opposition, or the "king-makers" under some sort of minority or coalition government, similar to what they did to the Martin government. (Indeed it is rather mind boggling they don't make such a proposal now; the GG has the right to ask Mr Dion to form a coalition government without calling an election since they do have the combined number of seats to govern. This was the crux of the "King-Byng" back in 1926).

I don't think that this state of affairs will remain stable, nor do I think the split in the Left will translate into a Conservative majority government given 2/3 of Canadian voters will vote for left wing parties over the Conservatives. The Liberals may trigger an early election before they are seen to be irrelevant, and indeed given the hemorrhage of votes and funding may need to before too many of their supporters decide the NDP or Greens are the "real thing" and go there. The NDP may want the Liberals to limp along, so whoever succeeds Mr. Dion will have nothing left to rebuild. The Greens might be making a similar calculation. The Bloc have different interests, but their challenge is the revival of the Conservative Party in Quebec. What scenario is best for them is hard for me to imagine.


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## blacktriangle (3 Feb 2008)

No Discernable Platform


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## medicineman (3 Feb 2008)

Nil Defence Policy

MM


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## Boxkicker (5 Feb 2008)

Sure I would if the sky was purple and grass was orange. This is the funniest topic I have ever seen on this site. I would like to thank the guy who started it because he is a comedian.


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## Drummy (6 Feb 2008)

If the NDP had done only half as much for Canada as the CF has done for Afghanistan, I might think about it.

Well, that didn't last long !     Nah.

Drummy


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## OldSolduer (6 Feb 2008)

Let's look at the NDP policy during the height of the Cold War:

They were in favor of reducing the size of the CF in the 1980's, in order to display to the USSR we were willing to be peaceful. 
The NDP were always onside with Pierre Elliot when it came to military budget cuts.
The NDP Defence critic, Dawn Black...she has no clue.....well I think you don't need any explanation when I say that the terms "NDP" and "Defence" are oxymoronic. 
Putting it plainly and simply...the NDP detest the military and anything that smacks of authority, other than their own sense of self importance.

I would surmise that you all will gues my answer is a resounding NO!


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Feb 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> *Putting it plainly and simply...the NDP detest the military and anything that smacks of authority, other than their own sense of self importance.*



Unless it was their authority and they used the military like their brethren Lenin, Stalin, Mao and the rest.


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## Southern Boy (6 Feb 2008)

Look at what happened to Ontario with Bob Rae. I hope that was enough to learn our lesson.


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Feb 2008)

Southern Boy said:
			
		

> Look at what happened to Ontario with Bob Rae. I hope that was enough to learn our lesson.



Yep. If they want to finally lose Ontario, all the libs have to do is make Rae the leader. Rae Days are still hauntingly fresh in the minds of Ontarians, along with his communist free fall spending spree that just about bankrupted us.


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## Old Ranger (6 Feb 2008)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The Liberals have been steering hard to the left under Mr. Dion, and seem mystified to discover



......that they are on a Head on Collision with  Mad Max's Big Rig......

Good Story line for a Fox movie of the weak..(not week)


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## Old Sweat (6 Feb 2008)

Naturally dumb people.


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## Shamrock (6 Feb 2008)

Needing a Donkey Punch


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## edgar (7 Feb 2008)

One thing these retards miss, when they say nobody ever won a war in afghanistan, is that if the british and the russians lost, who won?
The Afghanis of course. And whose side are we on? The afghanis of course. We can't lose. Unless we give up.


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## aesop081 (7 Feb 2008)

edgar said:
			
		

> One thing these retards miss, when they say nobody ever won a war in afghanistan, is that if the british and the russians lost, who won?
> The *Afghanis * of course. And whose side are we on? The *afghanis * of course. We can't lose. Unless we give up.



"Afghans" would be the term you are looking for.

"Afghanis" is the name of their money


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## a_majoor (16 Feb 2008)

Great cartoon: the "Left vs the Taliban"


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## ModlrMike (16 Feb 2008)

Why would I vote for a party who's stated aim is to eliminate my source of employment?


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