# "JTF-2 Commandos were ready to swoop"



## AIC_2K5 (7 Jun 2006)

JTF-2 assaulters on alert to take out terrorist training camp:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=039eea20-67f8-4647-8277-9597dc7dd816


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Jun 2006)

and...?


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## nULL (7 Jun 2006)

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149630613356&call_pageid=968332188492

I hate to post and run, but having been closely following the news in the past several days, I can't help but feel a tad smug that my initial impressions were shared by this journalist. I'm not going to  go so far as to claim that the whole thing was done for the sake of bolstering Harper's government, but I do wonder if the seriousness of the incident was blown out of proportion; perhaps it's little wonder that such a high-level resource as the JTF was not utilized to its full extent.


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Jun 2006)

Whenever there is suspected terrorists its NEVER overblown when you attempt to reel them in.


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## Michael Dorosh (7 Jun 2006)

nULL said:
			
		

> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149630613356&call_pageid=968332188492
> 
> I hate to post and run, but having been closely following the news in the past several days, I can't help but feel a tad smug that my initial impressions were shared by this journalist. I'm not going to  go so far as to claim that the whole thing was done for the sake of bolstering Harper's government, but I do wonder if the seriousness of the incident was blown out of proportion; perhaps it's little wonder that such a high-level resource as the JTF was not utilized to its full extent.



Second-rate or not, I think it does us good to remind us of the potential threats. I can only guess there are guys worse than this "out there". Then again, publicizing these guys so heavily may only prove to be an incentive to recruiting elsewhere - "if they can do it, why can't we?" kind of a deal.


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## HItorMiss (7 Jun 2006)

nULL

you know of course that JTF2 would have been on stand by just on the basis of armed groups are sometimes to much for Cops the handle even the really trained ones and so JTF2 is that last resort 911 for the Police if it were to get out of hand?

Plus just for informations sake, JTF2 is always on stand by for something the amount of ramp up time just differs, this isn't even news really just media sensationalism to use a cool name and sell papers and a story.


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Jun 2006)

+1


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## jonsey (7 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> nULL
> 
> you know of course that JTF2 would have been on stand by just on the basis of armed groups are sometimes to much for Cops the handle even the really trained ones and so JTF2 is that last resort 911 for the Police if it were to get out of hand?



Isn't that what SWAT/ERT (or whatever acronym the Toronto guys use) is for, to provide a specially traned force, utilizing more militaristic methods and equipment, for situations where normal police aren't trained/equipped for?


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## Scoobie Newbie (7 Jun 2006)

Yes.  However even they have limits.


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## HItorMiss (7 Jun 2006)

Say for instance you have a group of people, that have in someway gotten a hold of a lot of weapons they shouldn't have...like very high powered carbine rifles, or even assault rifles and some explosives, now the ERT/SWAT cops assault the building and take serious heavy fire in return and are forced to pull back. When you have reached that level of escalation the only way to go is up and when your talking these types of operations the only up from there is JTF2. They would be the the sledgehammer the smart bomb of the whole thing, they would hit the building and they would clear it...difference oh about a demolished house and all suspect dead.


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## KevinB (7 Jun 2006)

JTF-2 is a National Level of Importance (NLI) reaction.

 If you can pick these guys up with plain clothes people with no fuss no muss - you do it.  IF it comes down to an incident were the bad guy have to be taken down or else, then the varsity from the Hill go in.


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## nULL (7 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Say for instance you have a group of people, that have in someway gotten a hold of a lot of weapons they shouldn't have...like very high powered carbine rifles, or even assault rifles and some explosives, now the ERT/SWAT cops assault the building and take serious heavy fire in return and are forced to pull back. When you have reached that level of escalation the only way to go is up and when your talking these types of operations the only up from there is JTF2. They would be the the sledgehammer the smart bomb of the whole thing, they would hit the building and they would clear it...difference oh about a demolished house and all suspect dead.



Certainly, a higher level of resources go into training a commando as opposed to a member of a police tactical team; seeing as how the latter cannot perform the specialized skills of the former, from a practical standpoint - why not let specialized police units alone handle such a situation? After all, I'd imagine that the potential to conduct such operations would have weighed favourably on their decision to volunteer for such duties. 

I know this is going to sound cruel and callous; believe me, it's not meant to. But replacing a member of the JTF would certainly be a taller order than replacing two local cops.


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## Old Sweat (7 Jun 2006)

It may be a blinding statement of the obvious to state that JTF2 has skills and capabilities far beyond that of most police ERTs. Furthermore the story referred to the possibility of employment of the unit near the Washago training area - a forested site. Woods clearing would have been way out of the lane for police who tend to concentrate on resolving domestic or low level criminal hostage incidents. While we will never know, the commitment of JTF2 would have come as an unpleasant surprise to these wannabe jihadists.


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## KevinB (7 Jun 2006)

FWIW - Old Sweat :
ALL Cdn Police ERT/Tac teams -- unless there are ones that shoot 50k+ rounds a year and have an intenational training base/cadre that I missed...

HitorMiss -- your scenario is incorrect in regardless to the deployment of JTF and other CF assets
 FWIW portions of 1 CER and 1VP where stood too for the incident that claimed the lives of the 4 RCMP in Maerthorpe.

The OPP tend to do a lot of wooded area tactical operations BTW.

The IR Squadron is a NLI asset -- you dont waste it on domestic policing IF you dont have to...


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## HItorMiss (7 Jun 2006)

I6

Yes your right my scenario is a bit off kilter as to the how's and whys of their being deployed inside Canada, I was trying to convey a hypothetical in terms of the difference in approach more so then the actual why.

And I fully accept that not being a member of that unit I could and very well maybe right our of er.


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## jwsteele (7 Jun 2006)

I agree with all that is being said, but I think the police tactical teams would have been utilized if possible, but if the situation deteriorated into a firefight in the woods then JTF-2 would be called.  I thought the primary difference between police tactical teams and JTF-2 was that the police team are trained to save lives instead of being well trained killers that can obliterate a group of armed resistance.


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## Thompson_JM (7 Jun 2006)

jwsteele said:
			
		

> I agree with all that is being said, but I think the police tactical teams would have been utilized if possible, but if the situation deteriorated into a firefight in the woods then JTF-2 would be called.  I thought the primary difference between police tactical teams and JTF-2 was that the police team are trained to save lives instead of being well trained killers that can obliterate a group of armed resistance.




Here is your Lane >>>>      /  |   \                        
                                   /    |     \          ??? <<<<<<  Here is You
                                 /      |       \ 
                               /        |         \


Any questions?

FWIW Im not going to comment on how JTF-2 might be deployed within canada to assist the RCMP or Local ETF/ERT/TRU Teams because I dont have a frickin clue, and anything i say is going to be pure speculation.... maybe some of it might be true but thats luck, not knowlege... 

Cheers.


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## paracowboy (7 Jun 2006)

Cpl Thompson said:
			
		

> Here is your Lane >>>>      /  |   \
> /    |     \          ??? <<<<<<  Here is You
> /      |       \
> /        |         \
> ...


beautiful. Sheer art.


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## Thompson_JM (7 Jun 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> beautiful. Sheer art.



Thank You Para, Its a Labour of love  ;D


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## Trinity (7 Jun 2006)

I was half way through a reply to this thread earlier today.

And then erased it.. cause I knew I was speculating.

Nice Thompson....  glad to see I made the right choice


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## HItorMiss (7 Jun 2006)

Cpl Thompson said:
			
		

> Here is your Lane >>>>      /  |   \
> /    |     \          ??? <<<<<<  Here is You
> /      |       \
> /        |         \
> ...



I am guilty as charged!


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## Good2Golf (7 Jun 2006)

And swoop they could, using a handful a skills not very well known about, even amongst the SF/CT world!  Operators are trained to make gentle cooing noises during the assault phase, much like a mourning dove sounds, as they swoop from their super-secret hiding locations in the woods.  Keep in mind, that these super secret hiding locations are even more sophisticated than "Secret Hiding Location Alpha-1", often used to great success by Team America....but the lads are better, much better.  Then when the op is done, they need only scour the assault area to ensure that all the feathers from the "avian-gilly" suits are removed from the scene of the op, so that know one ever knew whether those were just a few birds in the woods...or JTF 2....  Ooooh...it sends chills up my back just thinking they're out there...sceddy kiddies!

Okay, okay...coming back down to reality...police deal with domestic matters, that is until they're no longer capable, then CF assets (including JTF 2 if required) assist.  

It really is just about as simple as that...

p.s.  In its day before JTF 2, RCMP SERT was fairly well trained and equipped to do what it was required to do.  It's just that the cost was increasing and the Sol Gen thought the ultimate National CT response was better handled by the military, and worked with his colleague, the MND, to transfer the responsibility from the RCMP to the CF.

p.p.s.  Cpl Thompson, ever thought about moonlighting in the CFAP (Cdn Forces Artists Program)?  

Cheers,
Duey


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## 3rd Horseman (7 Jun 2006)

Duey,

    Best explanation Ive heard...especially the first paragraph LMAO.  ;D


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## jwsteele (7 Jun 2006)

Message Deleted.


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## Koenigsegg (7 Jun 2006)

Seniority tends to count on this website.
Being a military oriented website, think of senior members as your Superior Officer, or the like.
Cpl. Thompson has quite a bit of seniority over you...

The people who make such "Stay in your lane" comments have had to deal with many morons in their time on this site.  So, as you can imagine, their patience and forgiveness for ignorance and such is not good.

Also, if you are not going to say anything definitive, state it as such when you post it, or just dont post at all.
Your last post is not making your case any better, in fact, it is digging your grave.  I politely suggest you quit while you are "ahead".


(I shall not report to moderators)


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## Ahkenaten (8 Jun 2006)

> I hate to post and run, but having been closely following the news in the past several days, I can't help but feel a tad smug that my initial impressions were shared by this journalist. I'm not going to  go so far as to claim that the whole thing was done for the sake of bolstering Harper's government, but I do wonder if the seriousness of the incident was blown out of proportion; perhaps it's little wonder that such a high-level resource as the JTF was not utilized to its full extent.



1. The persons responsible for the UK bombings were similarly dismissed.

2. The sheer numbers of opinions I see from Canadians about how this wasn't such a big deal astounds me. _It didn't happen therefore it could never happen._ People just don't believe that maybe we just had some professionals to thank for saving our smug backsides. Honestly it makes me wonder if they shouldn't have just gone ahead and let them do it. I mean it's only Toronto.

3. Perhaps the JTF2 demigods were not disturbed from their fortresses of solitude because dumb funny-looking old fashioned RCMP 'got their man' through decent know-how?

EDIT: 4. If you find your opinions jive too closely to a journalists' then you should really re-evaluate your opinion at least once. Most journalists make it up as they go along, and to become one the only thing most people have to "do" is the editor.

.


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## Thompson_JM (8 Jun 2006)

jwsteele said:
			
		

> Thanks Cpl. Thompson!  I'm well aware where my lane is and that's why I was trying to seek out the difference.  I never said anything definitive.  You people on here are unreal sometimes...just waiting for someone to say something that might not be correct and then pounce on them to make yourself feel big, wise, and better.  What exactly is your lane Cpl. Thompson?
> 
> Here is the general populations IQ >>>>  0------------------50----------------100-----*110*--------150.
> Here is you  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  0------- ???------50-----------enough said!
> ...



Hmmmm.... How should I Respond to this....  

Well if we go by your IQ Chart there then technically Im right where i should be... making smart arse comments.....

I could also Respond by saying you should go to the QM and see if Thicker Skin and Sense of Humour are on your Scale of Issue...

You it make you feel better if i had used a different Smily? Take your pick:  8)  :warstory:  :blotto: or possibly this one? >>> :crybaby:

but in all seriousness, Speculation can be fun, and as much as I enjoy talking about what the ski team might be able to do, or not do, those threads usually spiral down the toilet pretty quick around here. Too many JTF-Nintendo-Snipers from the Laser-Guided-Space-Ninja-Brigade end up posting and it becomes 42 pages of hearsay and Rumour.....   Meaning, that on a board that is regularly visited by anyone and everyone, including Media (there have been comments from our site put in the news. do a search if you dont belive me.) we have to have some discresion when it comes to talking about certain things... and on a lower level, there are too many people who read our speculation and quote it as fact "but i heard this army guy said that JTF-2 can mimic Doves and can fly in bird suits..."  obviously that is an out there example but my stance remains the same...

Koenigsegg: As Mr. Bobbit has stated, Army.Ca is a place where everyone has a say and opinion... within reason obviously.... much like the army out there there is a certain way to do things on here, and some conforming is required... (its accually a fairly painless procedure and my scars are all but gone now.... ) I Veiw Army.Ca the same way I view an all ranks event at my unit... its a relaxed atmosphere where everyone can have fun and enjoy themselves, but there are still rules and despite the fact we dont have our game faces on, there is still that level of professionalism to ensure we dont get too rowdy.  

So to Sum Up, 
Im just another poster, no better and no worse then anyone else on this site. with no more entitlement then the next guy.  

and on a personal note, Jwsteele, yikes man... relax, it was a joke... a gentle reminder to engage brain before mouth... and in case your wondering, Ive been on the Incoming end of those before... on here, AND in the CF.... its called learning. you take your lumps, learn from em, and Soldier On....

You Also wont find Clarification on how JTF-2 Operate, or how they would assist the RCMP ETF, etc on here for one simply reason. OPSEC.

Trust me though.. im sure you have the boots for this... after all, they are practically new arnt they?   

Cpl Thompson (Whos Lane is the one with the Big Green Truck in it....)


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## Trinity (8 Jun 2006)

Cpl Thompson said:
			
		

> So to Sum Up,
> Im just another poster, no better and no worse then anyone else on this site. with no more entitlement then the next guy.



Actually, a few of us had a meeting last week and decided that we were better than you, I forgot to post that.
Sorry if that caused any confusion.


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## chaos75 (8 Jun 2006)

Koenigsegg said:
			
		

> Seniority tends to count on this website.
> Being a military oriented website, think of senior members as your Superior Officer, or the like.
> Cpl. Thompson has quite a bit of seniority over you...



Your "seniority" is determined by how many posts you have made, I am a junior member because I don't tend to post to often due to lack of time.  I have read many bonehead comments from senior members, directing staff as much as I have from junior members and so on.  The only saving grace the DS have is that they can shut down a topic when they feel it is going off the board, or they simply have had enough of the topic.  My suggestion to anyone who doesn't like someones personal comment on a subject or another person, is to take the issue ti them through PM, and if thee is no resolution then to a MOD.  Seniority on this site, certainly does not imply wisdom, as most can attest to in any normal organization.  Any questions on comments on this can be sent by PM as I suggested earlier.  Cheers.


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## Trinity (8 Jun 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> Your "seniority" is determined by how many posts you have made, I am a junior member because I don't tend to post to often due to lack of time.  I have read many bonehead comments from senior members, directing staff as much as I have from junior members and so on.  The only saving grace the DS have is that they can shut down a topic when they feel it is going off the board, or they simply have had enough of the topic.  My suggestion to anyone who doesn't like someones personal comment on a subject or another person, is to take the issue ti them through PM, and if thee is no resolution then to a MOD.  Seniority on this site, certainly does not imply wisdom, as most can attest to in any normal organization.  Any questions on comments on this can be sent by PM as I suggested earlier.  Cheers.



I would attest that TRUTH and FACT are the only seniority. No one is higher than any other, not even Mike.

Although if Mike thinks your an idiot, you might be visiting another site.


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## Michael Dorosh (8 Jun 2006)

chaos75 said:
			
		

> Your "seniority" is determined by how many posts you have made, I am a junior member because I don't tend to post to often due to lack of time.



Seniority is sometimes determined by what is contained in a person's profile - and certainly by WHAT they post, and HOW they say it, not necessarily how often they spew into the ether, or the date they signed up for the site.


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## Bobbyoreo (8 Jun 2006)

Dont know if this matters, but its along the same line. The local police forces have asked and used DND...not just JTF for different tasks. IE armour for different situations!! Just a little extra info!!!


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## AFireinside13 (8 Jun 2006)

I noticed at the bottom of this article there is a mention that there is a Domestic Response Company comprised of reservists. 
I'm fairly new to the reserves ( BMQ in oct 05 ) and am with the QOR, but I have never heard of this. Can anyone shine some light on this for me? How would you get in? 

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=039eea20-67f8-4647-8277-9597dc7dd816 theres the link again so you do not have to scroll back.

Thanks.


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## Armymedic (9 Jun 2006)

AFireinside13,
Every army formation has some sort of domestic response unit on a "quick" response footing, immediate response unit, etc. This company mentioned would be the one for Toronto area reservist brigade. It is nothing special other then troops doing what they are trained to do, being calling in on short notice.

For all the rest of you arguing about this and wasting bandwidth;

Why is this a surprise, why would this even be news worthy to those of us in uniform? 
You play to win...If the police who were taking down this cell were at all in doubt about what may happen, would it not stand to reason for them to call in back up? Who would be the back up for the OPP Tac Response Team in Ontario? A federal team, perchance? And who are the go-to guys? Members of CANSOFCOM. I would bet good money that while Mr Wattie mentions JTF2 specifically, the other subunits of the command would have had some part in monitoring and assisting in the operation.



> However, security experts said they would not be surprised that JTF-2 was involved in the case, if only on standby. "It makes sense that they would have them there," said John Thompson, the director of the Mackenzie Institute, a defence and security think-tank. "If there were some sort of siege or standoff, or if a police officer had been shot ... they're the ones who would've been called in."



Like, duh!

I would be more surprised if the police did NOT call the CF for support, esp when a terrorism cell is suspected.


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## 17thRecceSgt (10 Jun 2006)

JTF-2/ERT/SWAT

I am not part of any of them.  I am also not a part of the Fire Department either.

However...I go to sleep at night trusting the brave mbr's of JTF/ERT/SWAT AND the Fire Department...and the EMS..and...

Is my point to gray????

I would be MORE concerned to hear that JTF-2 was...not involved...informed...and at 5 minutes NTM.  They are like all of our Fire Dept in Canada...only they are trained to put out different fires...and with different "hoses".

just my stupid thoughts though....


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## GK .Dundas (10 Jun 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Actually, a few of us had a meeting last week and decided that we were better than you, I forgot to post that.
> Sorry if that caused any confusion.


 Great I missed it you guys ordered pizza too ,did'nt you?...*grumble* I really have to start checking my mesaages more often.


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## Scorpyo (12 Jun 2006)

THERE  ARE  NO  COMPACTS  BETWEEN  LIONS  AND  MEN


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## Scoobie Newbie (12 Jun 2006)

Scorpyo need for ALL CAPS.  We can all hear you just fine.


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