# Canadian Citizen in the US Marines



## erikkusiak (13 Sep 2003)

I did it.

I am not quite sure why. I tell people its because I can‘t feel like I am going to make a difference serving in a country that won‘t commit itself to anything... but thats probably a lie.

When people ask me why I am risking my life for someone elses country I tell them that I am doing it not for one country but for the common good of all people who are oppressed by those who wish to take away the freedoms that we all endure. That‘s probably 50% of the reason.

I guess the other part is that I was afraid that I would never see any "action" while serving my native Canada. So I am off to the USMC. Even though I scored a 96 of 99 on my ASVAB... I am still going infantry. 


What do you guys think about all this? Respect?


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## OLD SCHOOL (13 Sep 2003)

1,2,3,4 UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS.
Great sniper teams. Very mobile.
You will not be bored.Ever.
Enjoy.


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## Tpr.Orange (13 Sep 2003)

semper fi 


HOORAH

good luck and much respect...

im a dual citizen of canada and the states...when im finished here ill be going down there


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## Rian_Ca (13 Sep 2003)

Wow,good for you man.Ive tried to get over to the US a few times for the same reasons.I cant because i dont have any family over there.But i did apply for the british paras,just waiting for word back.
I totaly agree,wether u serve Canada,US or Britan your basicly fighting side by side towards a common goal.Im sure there will be some that dont agree with your descisions,just remember there yours and you should be proud.Nothing but respect from here,good luck and semper fi.


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## Sundborg (13 Sep 2003)

Good luck with the Marines, I think you will fit in just fine.


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## nbk (13 Sep 2003)

Ick...the idea doesn‘t sit well with me...maybe I‘m just a nationalist...but you are free to do your own thing...

You will have plenty of support from the others in the CF...


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## Walter Brunszwick (13 Sep 2003)

Not to contradict your decision or anything, and with all due respect, I don‘t understand? I mean, why would you leave your native land? I personally would die for Canada. Even though I considered joining the U.S. Army, I would never do so. I would not die for a country that has superiority over the entire world, not to mention influence. Forget equipment and all, fight for your country. Think about it for a moment, if every soldier left Canada and joined another country‘s army, we‘d have an army the size of a high-school. Best to just stick around with your side. This is just an opinion.


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## Mat-V (13 Sep 2003)

Hey congrats Kusiak ! I must say the idea did zip trough my mind but im proud to be canadian and I dont think I ever would be able to feel at home in another country‘s army. 

Im not trying to hijack your post but there‘s something I always wanted to know and need to ask        How can a canadian citizen get involve with the U.S. Army, Marines, Navy, etc ??? Do you need dual citizen ship or can you do it via other channels like special visas or whatever ? I always hear about mexicans, africans or europians joining the U.S. Army and I could never find out how they did it.


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## bbupd (13 Sep 2003)

Kusiak... I would definitely like details... I have been considering doing this but the cost of the visa‘s and the uncertaininty of even being allowed to stay there is not enough to convince me to do it... but I do have a job in Tampa, FL if I need the employer support.... how did you do it?


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## PTE Gruending (14 Sep 2003)

Kusiak, I am sure most of us have thought about joining a foreign powers military, the USMC, British, French Foreign Legion, etc.

But the longer I am in the Canadian Army, the more my urge to do this declines. Politics and the philosophy of "we are all fighting for the same things" aside, there is always the worry that joining the USMC will be simply to become a "mercenary" for the Bush/Money reign....


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## McInnes (14 Sep 2003)

I don‘t understand. Loyalty...I could understand joining the Brits if you were Canadian. Same Queen, same empire.
Best of luck. I think it would take a lot of courage; to willingly offer your life to another country.
Cheers.


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## Rian_Ca (14 Sep 2003)

First of all,i think he was brave by simply posting this haha.I know some people on this forums would not like the idea and quite possibly take offence to it,anyways...

Personaly,i dont feel that joining any military has much to do with serveing your country.I want to join for the good of it.To help someone,To make the world a better place.To be honest joining the US or UK would probaly give you more of a chance to make a differece.
I am Canadian but i know,if Canada was attacked,the US and the UK would take the lead so might as well.
The best would be if the government dropped some cash and got us back up to par with the UK,and gave us back the CAR.


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## bbupd (14 Sep 2003)

Considering my reply in support, and notice that I wish to do the same, let me hop in here..



> But the longer I am in the Canadian Army, the more my urge to do this declines. Politics and the philosophy of "we are all fighting for the same things" aside, there is always the worry that joining the USMC will be simply to become a "mercenary" for the Bush/Money reign....


The Bush reign will last 4 years... 8 years max. Much less than a career would, and I am fairly certain that the longer the current middle east campaigns carry on, the less popular Mr. Bush is oging to become... But I am not a political analyst by trade, and have been known to be wrong.



> I don‘t understand. Loyalty...I could understand joining the Brits if you were Canadian. Same Queen, same empire.
> Best of luck. I think it would take a lot of courage; to willingly offer your life to another country.


It has nothing to do with a lack of loyalty. After all, we are becoming a global community. As stated by Rian_ca, the US or Brits would step in, therefore you are indirectly supporting Canada, regardless. I think it has to do with the fact that we are not raised to think of our military first. Hollywood glorification insinuates the US military is the only capable military... That combined with the fact that the US is at least active, it would seem to me that the US would offer more opportunity. I suppose it would also depend on what you want to do later on... Personally, I like the idea that I could face Hon.Disch. and have opportunity to retire in Colorado in 20 yrs, or somewhere hot and rocky (like AZ) where I could wheel my CJ5 year round... Canada is a great country, but to the average citizen it does not do itself justice when it comes to pride at a national and international level. As well.. ‘once a marine, always a marine‘ ...


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## McInnes (14 Sep 2003)

It depends what you joined for. If I really wanted to help out, I would join something like the red cross, or some sort of aid organisation, or be a firefighter or a paramedic or something like that. The primary reason for having soldiers in Canada is not to "help out". Armies are created and exist for war. The main reason that any country would have an army is for national defence. If you are in the Canadian Army, you are serving Canada, and your purpose first and foremost, would be the defence of Canada. 
The US Army is not the world/global army. It is a tool of the US gov.


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## Rian_Ca (14 Sep 2003)

So by joining the army your soul purpose is to destroy things,and to wait for someone to attack your nation so you may defend it?I dont agree with what you said Aquilus Lupin.
Out of all the wars or conflicts Canada or any of the allies has been involved in,how many of them have been in defence? Not many i dont think.
I want to join to help out in a sence,and i dont mean by handing out food and medicine.By help,i mean by liberating oppressed peoples around the world,ridding the world of cruel tyrants who massecre their own peoples,stop racial/ethnic cleansing ect ect. and do it with force.I dont beleive these tree hugging chit chat organizations can really do anything to stop such events without the support of men at arms.

I dont remember being threatend by rwanda,somalia,bosnia ect.


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## Korus (14 Sep 2003)

Militaries are political tools, to be used by the government to acheive their political goals which may or may not be for the good of the global community, but rather for their own good.

I, personally, joined the Canadian Army because I‘m proud to be Canadian, and don‘t want to take for granted how good my way of life in Canada is. Sure it would be nice to serve in a military with lots of high tech kit, but.. well, I‘m not a proud American.

If you‘re joining for no real reason other than wanting to see action, to see buddy‘s head explode in a shower of pink mist, if not your own, and don‘t mind serving another nations political purposes.. well...


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## bbupd (14 Sep 2003)

Well lets go above and beyond the political and pink mist things... How about the whole comraderie... IMHO I could understand if someone said regular GI in the US Army, or boatswain in the US Navy but we do not have a Marine Corps.. We do not have a SEAL team or other... (we have JTF2 which no one seems to know about.. how can one pursue something that technically does not exist?)....

We had an elite group. We closed the doors on it. And tie that in to the comraderie of the Corps and you have an awful appealing invitation.... But thats also coming from a civi.. not an enlisted person..


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## Korus (14 Sep 2003)

What happened to the comaraderie between fellow Canadians? I guess it doesn‘t make as good of a movie as one about Marines, but I‘ve met some **** good people in the CF, and I‘m proud to put the uniform on. A lot of it is what you make of it. 

Yes, the CF does have problems, but it doesn‘t help the CF to run from them to join a military that is thought to be "better". Are you joining for yourself or the organization?

But you‘re free to do what you want, and that freedom is something I serve to protect, and to honor the legacy of those who have fought and died for those freedoms...


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## girlfiredup (14 Sep 2003)

Someone asked the question..what does it require to join the US Military... all you need is a Social Security Number and a Residence Card (I think its called a 551 or something).  The American Embassy on Sussex can assist you and you will need to get in touch with a recruiter.  As long as you are not past the cut off age, which is 35, anyone can join the American Army.  And no, I‘m not recruiting here.  I‘m proud to be a Canadian!


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## McInnes (14 Sep 2003)

Rian_Ca,
I did not say that the "soul purpose of joining the army" is to destry things. I said that the primary reason why we have an army is so that another country simply cant walk in and take Canada as their own. We actually have something to defend ourselves with. Secondary reason would be to promote Canadian interests/policy. Simply, the Canadian Army, or the US Army, or any army really, has not been created to police the world, or to make the world a better place. They represent the "force" of a government. 

BTW, the boer war, and the great war, had nothing to do with Canada, Britain controlled our foriegn policy. WWII was in defence of Britain. Every major war that Canada has been involved in was defensive, save Korea, which I dont know anything about.


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## bbupd (15 Sep 2003)

> What happened to the comaraderie between fellow Canadians?


Well, for one, the average Canadian on the street doesn‘t seem to have the same comraderie as other countries... Everyone seems to come here to be what they were before, free and clear of dictatorship (refer to case Dhillon vs RCMP over turban vs stetson)... We do not even stand up for the very uniform that stands symbolic of our stereotypical policing uniform...  



> I guess it doesn‘t make as good of a movie as one about Marines


My Hollywood reference was not in support of the US but rather contempt thereof... I am not sure what your reference is: Sarcasm directed at me as a result of misunderstanding my reference, or general statement... I suppose if someone were blind and ignorant to the history of most hostile engagements at international levels, they would not realize that, contrary to Hollywood‘s explanations, the US did not win every war, let alone on its own, as most stories would insinuate.
And in many cases, the US either involved itself too early/quickly/deep (Nam) or not soon enough (WWII)...



> but I‘ve met some **** good people in the CF, and I‘m proud to put the uniform on.


I do not believe anyone has suggested that the quality of people was greater or lesser in either case...



> A lot of it is what you make of it.


True.. would you say, then, that political reasoning aside, if you work equally hard either way you go (US or CAD) that it works out to the same end result then?




> Yes, the CF does have problems, but it doesn‘t help the CF to run from them to join a military that is thought to be "better". Are you joining for yourself or the organization?


You seem to be well versed, and experienced... I would like to draw from you.. What reasons would you give that the Canadian forces are "better"...? What examples can you give of quality of life? Future opportunities? This is not a challenge but an inquiry from curiosity and desire to learn more before making a very important decision...



> But you‘re free to do what you want, and that freedom is something I serve to protect, and to honor the legacy of those who have fought and died for those freedoms...


I suppose what I would like to think, as one of the small population of guys on a Canadian Forces site talking about supporting the US Forces, is not that I am flaunting support for someone else, or taking away from the pride and prestige of the uniform that you wear every day... but rather, that regardless of my decision, or the next guy‘s, we‘d still potentially share the same mud, the same interests.. Let‘s face it.. The US and Canada share a lot of the same interests, and in many ways, they are like siblings... And in that, regardless of the current leader‘s, and their decisions, the simple fact is, we‘re all one big bullseye for threats..... But thats just my humble opinion...

Side note: Anyone know of a site similar to this thats frequented by Navy personnel? Anyone on here gone that route? TIA.


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## Korus (15 Sep 2003)

*Bbupd*, don‘t worry, I wasn‘t attacking you or anyone else personally, I‘ve just been in the mood to rant today.   

re: hollywood references, this was more a comment on the fact that what many people know about militaries is from watching movies, and take the culture portrayed in movies to be what it‘s really like. Yes, there are people who know that movies aren‘t exact portrayals of the truth, but there are some people....



> You seem to be well versed, and experienced


You‘ve got to be careful on sites like this. Lots of people seem to be things they‘re not, and sometimes will pretend that they are   
I‘ve been in the reserves for just over a year, so I‘m by no means experienced. I‘ve learnt a lot in that time, but there are many people here who know *much* more.

As for a military being better, I was just emphasising that each military has it‘s own good things and bad things. The US military seems attractive to many because it has a lot of high tech gucci kit. The Canadian military, to me, is attractive because we learn to do a lot with a little..   

With respect to quality of life, being in the reserves can be a good job, especially for a student like me. I can‘t say anything for the reg force side, because I don‘t know it. In 2 years when I‘m done my degree, I want to go on a tour as a reservist, and decide from there if I want to go regular force, or stay a reservist..

If you‘ve got questions, feel free to ask them, and hopefully people here will be able to give you the answers you need to make your descision. 

Heh, if people didn‘t have differences of opinions, forums like this would be very boring places, as conversations would never really go anywhere.


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## bbupd (15 Sep 2003)

The only exposure the the Cdn forces I have had was during winter military ops in Kapuskasing about 12-14 years ago. And I was still a kid back then.

I guess the advantage to staying in Canada, is wearing a maple lead, not a bullseye.. But here‘s a question: How much oversears experience would one see in the regular canadian forces (not reservist)... It would seem to me that in the Cdn forces you see a lot of Canada, but thats about it... I am hoping I am wrong on that part...


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## Walter Brunszwick (15 Sep 2003)

Don‘t Canadian platoons ship out for missions overseas assigned by the UN in an alliance with other countries? I ain‘t too sure.


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## McInnes (15 Sep 2003)

There are thousands of canadian troops deployed around the world right now. Not like over five thousand, but still thousands nonetheless     
But compare that to the size of our army, and make that into a ratio of troops here, and troops overseas. There‘s a reason why so many people are complaining that our forces are too stretched, in that there are not enough people. Sure the US has a lot more people deployed, but look at the size of their armed forces...yeah.


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## Jarnhamar (15 Sep 2003)

"Lots of people seem to be things they‘re not, and sometimes will pretend that they are"

I actually work in a break plant, im 38 and live in me-hi-co.

Anyone who says there is no commeradery (sp?) among the ranks in the army hasn‘t had one of their platoon mates drag them from the mess and clear up their vomit when they in their infinate stupidity decide their ranger blanket and sleeping bag is as good a place to go as any.

Marine corps kick *** . They also have billions of dollars to pump into their training. We can‘t hold our military to theirs anymore then you can hold a cop from  a town of 50 to a cop in down town toronto.


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## meni0n (15 Sep 2003)

Why not just join the British Forces then? They get into the same conflicts as the US does and they‘re just as well equipped plus you‘ll be serving the Queen. Btw, how hard is it for canadians to join British military?


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## bbupd (16 Sep 2003)

You must be living there for 5 years to join the  RMs.

And, in my case, its not an option.. I‘m Catholic Irish.


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## uatemycookie (16 Sep 2003)

Before I knew I could rejoin the CF I went to the british web site and ordered the joining papers they were at my house with in 2 weeks.... I filled them out (I was going to go 1 para) the day I went to send them off I found out that I could rejoin the CF so thats where I went! I leave on saturday for BMQ!!! I thought about joining the british for a while because of the fact that they are operational.. there was many more reason why I was going to go to britan.. but when it came down to it im canadian!!!!!!!!!!!


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## erikkusiak (16 Sep 2003)

WOW! I wasn‘t expecting such a response, that‘s why I am only checking on it now.

For the questions about joining; You have to at least have the paper work rolling to get into the US Forces. You need to have a processing number at least. I went in with a Permenant Resident card and it went as smooth as it could have for a foreign citizen joining up, and it was still a hassle. I am not sure exactly what to answer but if anyone has further questions feel free to email me at erik_kusiak@yahoo.com


I didn‘t just jump into this either. I had done plenty of research about the Canadian Army before I even set foot in a USMC station. I have such pride in my country and would put my life on the line for it, but the whole aspect of sitting on a base in Canada or being sent out as a UN peacekeeper just didn‘t appeal to me. I also got my recruiting packet from the Queen‘s Army over in Britian, but something about going there just didn‘t seem right. Who knows, after my service in the USMC is up I very well might come back to Canada, I actually still plan on living in Montreal when I am older. Oh, the whole Duel Citizenship swayed me as well.


For those who are with me you don‘t know how good it feels to have the support of my brothers. I really didn‘t know what kind of response I was going to recieve here, so I was a little nervous. Thanks for all the good words, and to those who aren‘t all for the USMC, it doesnt matter. Still brothers and I got your back.


  Forever...


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## onecat (16 Sep 2003)

A few years back I was going to join the British army.  My reasons were mainly budgets and the fatc we have a gov‘t that doesn‘t support the CF and would sooner see it disbanded than give more money.  I spoke with recuiter on the phone in the UK, and they told me that because I was 27 at the time it was out of question.  They have stricter age limits there.  But now I‘m glad I never got in as I have everything in order for teh CF.  I‘m Canadian and although the Liberals will still run, I think I can put up the budgets and the cuts.

As for teh joining the US forces... the toys are great.  But I could never look at their flag and have that feeling you need to put your life on line.  Plus I‘m sure I would get sick of the Canadian jokes.


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## bbupd (16 Sep 2003)

I‘m disappointed you already had your US citizenship.. I was hoping you were going to have some enlightening advice for me   

How quick was the paperwork processed? The biggest complain on here was the turnaround and swearing in takes too long... How quick was the USMC process? When do you go?

Best of luck.. Maybe our paths will cross...


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## Korus (16 Sep 2003)

*Kusiak*;
Good luck with the USMC.


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## Walter Brunszwick (16 Sep 2003)

GO CANADA!


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## Rian_Ca (16 Sep 2003)

Getting in requires a permanent residence (green card). If you dont already have one,and dont have family in the states to sponsor you,then your only chances are sponsorship through employment.Sounds easy,but unless you have a college or univ. degree it could take awhile.They also only hand out certain amounts of green cards per category,wich are unskilled,skilled ect ect. the least going to the unskilled workers.
There is also a lottery that they have for getting in.They give out 55,000 green cards each year,no more then 5000 to any given country.The deadline for this year is sometime in November,with the results coming in December.Its also cost $40 to apply,per person.

IMHO,this lottery thing is pretty stupid.Im sure they do background checks and all but fake papers can be made and bought.Its really breakes my heart that they can hand out green cards to people who from all over the world who just come over and do nothing,from countries that have verry little to no ties with the states,and make it so hard for Canadians to get in,specialy ones that want in so they can serve.

Im sure you can tell,ive tried and been shut down.Im still gonna try one last time and go in in person.Ive heard stories of people getting in,so im hoping they will take me more seriously this time.If not,off to britain i go.

Anyways...good luck


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## nULL (16 Sep 2003)

I hate to be the one to ask this, (well, OK...not really...I love playing the devil‘s advocate) but in the same way that the "American Taliban" Walker would be considered to have made his choice (by his actions) to NOT be American, what would make a Canadian USMC personnel Canadian? I‘m not drawing character comparisons, but as you say you share duel citizenship, and have elected to fight FOR THAT COUNTRY (and not for the ideals surrounding it - you said UN ops didn‘t interest you), shouldn‘t you just draw the line somewhere? "You‘re an American with Canadian citizenship" seems more accurate that "I‘m a Canadian fighting for another country that I happen to share citizenship with". Perhaps it was just the way I was brought up, but I‘ve always believed there was more to citizenship than being born into a country. Otherwise, what‘s the point?


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## muskrat89 (16 Sep 2003)

Rian - you can also marry an American citizen. You‘re stuck for at least three years, though - if you split up, you get deported....

Maybe the good major could clarify, but lots of non-citizens join the US Military, without first getting a green card. The military is, for all intents and purposes, THEIR sponsoring employer. I had several friends in New Brunswick, join the US Military.


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## Jarnhamar (16 Sep 2003)

> although I despise Chretien and his cronies I would never publicly ridicule him or his policies.


If you as an educated, i imagine respected leader, do not, who will.  Some 4 tooth dirt farmer from the middle of no where? Someone who has zero credability and people will ignore. A spade is a spade.

Before someone reminds me the idea of never commenting on ones leader, i understand that. 

That being said, If people like you and I don‘t say "okay stop theres something wrong with all of this" then it won‘t stop and we will be just as much a part of the problem.


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## Walter Brunszwick (17 Sep 2003)

I don‘t have much to say on this topic as much has already been said. nULL, great explanation - I would‘ve not said it better. Debates on the web have tackled this topic since 1996 and probably before that too. And yes, I agree ... why fight for another country, which already has 10x more supremacy than they need? If you‘re Canadian, fight (if you need to fight, in a case of an alien invasion, for example) for Canada - your land!


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## erikkusiak (17 Sep 2003)

Sure I would love to fight for my country... but am I really going to even get that chance?

I really dont care what anyone says about it anyways. I mean I take your opinions and critisizim openly, but not to heart. No matter what you say, I will always be Canadian inside, and that wont change by which country I decide to spend a few years of my life in. If Canada could offer me the oppertunity that the US is right now, my decision would be set in a heartbeat. But sadly it can‘t.


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## Walter Brunszwick (17 Sep 2003)

I ain‘t too sure that I like the idea of tearing someone apart with a 7.62mm NATO round... In a war it is not personal I know, it is for one‘s country, but nevertheless, the idea isn‘t too appealing to myself. Maybe I‘m just a soft guy... I personally have a slight taste for combat, but on the whole, especially after studying previous wars in history, I‘d avoid one.

Actually, I would prefer it if armies existed only to protect the world from major natural disasters, and aliens, or any aggressive intruders from space and beyond. If so, then there would be reason for defense.


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## bbupd (17 Sep 2003)

Sherwood.. regarding my comments being garbage, I am shocked you would take it so literally... Simple truth of the matter is that Canadians are generally more well received around the world than Americans.. And although this is a general stereotype, I can assure you first hand that I have felt a significant difference in my travels... I‘ve literally had people refuse to wait on me in restaurants, only to end up kissing my ***  when they realized I was Canadian.. And been forthright and upfront telling me they thought I was American... I can also tell you of my experiences in tourism, serving American tourists that I understand why it is that people around the world would find American‘s to be rude, in general... But then again, all ethnic groups have their "quirks"... 

So why, if I feel this way, would I join a US military force? I have to admit, in this day and age, Citizenship is simply a case of political designation and categorization.. Technology has made this world much smaller.


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## Rian_Ca (17 Sep 2003)

muskrat89 : I have also heard these stories.Im hoping that by going across the border they might be willing to help me out more.Over the phone and internet they dont tell you much at all.Its some kind of law about recruiting from outside the US.

Would you be able to tell me more about how your friends got in? If they had any family over there or any ties that worked in their favor?


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## Jarnhamar (17 Sep 2003)

"If you‘re Canadian, fight (if you need to fight, in a case of an alien invasion, for example)"

You mean like, illegal immigrants/aliens? Thats rather uncanadian of you, eh.

Whats a slight taste for combat taste like anyways? I would imagine it‘s heartburn from a bad ration mixed with pop and chips from the canteen truck.

I have to agree with bbupd. Stereo typing aside i‘ve often found american tourists very rude. Where a canadian or brit may be quiet in a different country to me it almost seems like americans will speak english as loud as they can and talk about the US. Almost like they think it will intimidate everyone around them. Americans ARE targets by international terrorsist communities.


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## muskrat89 (17 Sep 2003)

Rian - I lived in a border town. The guys drove to the recruiter in the US (15 minutes away) and he hooked them up. Sorry, thats the best I can do.

To everyone else - I have seen some stereotypes of Americans proved out. I have seen a lot that were just not true. I have also seen US stereotypes of Canadians proved out      These broad generalizations of both sides have proved so embellished that now I wait and pass judgement on an individual basis. Heck, growing up, we stereotyped people from the next town or county, as I‘m sure many of you did. How many times, even now, do I hear western Canadians say stuff about Atlantic Canadians that just is not accurate...


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## Jarnhamar (17 Sep 2003)

Newfies drink a lot and are hard to understand.
BC is known for smoking pot.


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## Bert (17 Sep 2003)

This thread has gone into FUBAR.

Canada and the USA are entered into NATO and especially NORAD.  Any enemy, particularily a theoretical one now like Russia or China, would take out American AND Canadian targets in case of a conflict.  Terrorists would definitely attack the USA and any of its allies or even countries they felt had a relationship with the States.  Look at Germany, France, and Italy.  They have less in common with the USA than Canada but the enacted incidents of "terrorism/Al Quaeda" are much much more common.

For that, the distinguishing between what is Canadian and American becomes more difficult since the common enemies and friends in terms of the military are the same.  In my opinion, joining the Marines doesn‘t have much to do with 
national pride, its more of a location of duty if one wishes to entertain that.  The Canadian military represents an opportunity to do something for my country.

To join the Marines just wishing to see action may not be a good idea either.  First of all, you might get what you wished for.  Second, the nephew of a friend of mine has been in the Marines for a year now.  Hes being posted to Okinawa for the forseeable future.  Nice place to see Okinawa girls and his training schedule looks good. Hard to say right now if he‘ll get rotated to another area.  

Comparing the US Marines to the Canadian military or even the Canadian Infantry is silly.  Its like comparing apples to oranges.  The marines are equipped and trained for a set of deployments and the Canadians another.  Its better to compare elements to one another like light infantry to light infantry, counter-terrorism to counter-terrorism, or airborne to airborne.  Equipment is equipment but what of the quality or level of training per member?  Training the average US marine gets (Private to Corporal) isn‘t much different (in terms of capability)or better than the Canadian light infantry units.  The comparsion of US Army (Reg) and the Marines isn‘t exactly are the same terms as they are trained to do different jobs in-theatre.  This might make an interesting thread though.


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## bbupd (17 Sep 2003)

Last I checked the British requirements, you needed to be landed in the UK for 5 years, including your citizenship under the Queen... That means.. on the island. Or does anyone know differently than that?


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## Jarnhamar (17 Sep 2003)

> I will try your scenario when I head back to Iraq, I will wear a big read maple leaf on my uniform. I am sure the terrorists will leave me be, because I am Canadian and I‘m a good guy


Actually i think they would say "Hello do you know my cousin he lives in toronto."

I‘ve read on the internet that we never landed on the moon. You should be careful with where you get your information sir   
British are pretty arrogant though, no clue why.


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## erikkusiak (17 Sep 2003)

> Last I checked the British requirements, you needed to be landed in the UK for 5 years, including your citizenship under the Queen... That means.. on the island. Or does anyone know differently than that?


Not if your born in Canada. Still part of the good ole Commonwealth.


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## erikkusiak (17 Sep 2003)

> muskrat89 : I have also heard these stories.Im hoping that by going across the border they might be willing to help me out more.Over the phone and internet they dont tell you much at all.Its some kind of law about recruiting from outside the US.
> 
> Would you be able to tell me more about how your friends got in? If they had any family over there or any ties that worked in their favor?


Even though I had family ties that got me the Permenant Resident status, all I did was walk into the Recruiting Office and start talking with someone there. It was pretty easy and I dont think they have a problem helping other Canadians out because I am actually sending one of my friends over there in a bit. My guess would be if you live close enough take a trip down.


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## bbupd (17 Sep 2003)

My bad.. the Brit Roy Marines require 3 yrs.. not 5.. i think i got the 5 from that being how many years until I hit the age cutoff     

too many decisions.. not enough easy ones..

I agree with one of the prev posts.. you‘d think that it‘d be easy for Canadians to go south, and US citizens to go north... unbelievable really.... my US Brother in Law, wants to come north wiht my sister and the two of them live in Canada.. mean while I want in the States.. Should be able to just forgo and swap birth certs


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## nbk (17 Sep 2003)

> Actually i think they would say "Hello do you know my cousin he lives in toronto."


Ha ha ha. SO true..

And for those why say "we are in NORAD and NAFTA with the US so we should be with them no matter what", remember it was our *government* who got us involved in those things, not our citizens.

Honestly if we showed our adament opposition to the US, would Al Queda really consider us a major target? They don‘t like us because we are sympathetic to the US. 

They have enough sleeper agents in our country to ensure they will not attack Canada, out of fear that the government would be well within its rights to evoke the war measures act.


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## Walter Brunszwick (17 Sep 2003)

Hehe, Ghost778, I was referring to "extra-terrestrails," and supposedly aggressive.
The way I see it, is at the rate of the expansion of the human kind, we will soon have to transfer to other planets, which will probably be as easy and a mouse-click in 50 or so years, and, we just might encounter an aggressive alien species   :mg:  
Humans have over-stayed their welcome on Earth as I see it, polluting the grounds and the waters and the skies, killing inferior animals, destroying mother nature, etc... If the European settlers had not come here in the Middle Ages, the Indians I‘m sure would have not done the same. Picture a bunch of Injins blowin‘ up **** with nuclear bombs... If I had it a different way, I‘d prefer it that the human race be as economical and resourceful as possible, and let all nature and animals be. Someday, I predict as had supposedly happened before, the Earth will be swept with water, or fire perhaps, and life will start over, maybe with a more intelligent species of dominators, or merely animals. Oh, I hope to God, this infested planet will soon be rid of all whom destroyed its beauty.


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## nULL (17 Sep 2003)

I‘d think it has more to do with the Western World (in this case, the US) maintaining a strong military presence in the region, as well as a history of almost "giving" Israel weapons which it uses to murder Arabs. 

As well, Western culture is beginning to assimilate that of other civilizations, so I suppose it would be only natural to go on the defensive to preserve your way of life. I mean, when you see Walmart moving into your neighbourhood, don‘t you wish that perhaps they would f*** off and give a Canadian retailer a chance to re-establish some visible form of Canadian identity? I mean, I find it insulting when an American store masquerades to the public, stamping a maple leaf onto it‘s logo in an attempt to gain sales through false national pride.


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## Rian_Ca (17 Sep 2003)

I wonder how many people move to Canada from the US or UK to join the army.


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## Bert (17 Sep 2003)

On the other hand, there are not great hordes of Canadian military wannabes going to the US or the UK.  

Granted the US has interesting military deals with Isreal, but then again, check out the military arms deals Germany, Russia, France, Brazil, and China have within their spheres.  Germany last year sold submarines to both Isreal and Eqypt as well as a few other countries.
Ooooo.  

Maybe Walmart is American but do you really think great Canadian Icons like Zellers and Tim Hortons has your Canadian best interests in mind.  Naw, they just want your business.

The point is.....?


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## McInnes (17 Sep 2003)

A letter from: 
Overseas Cell, HQ Recruiting Group
(ACIO Upavon) Army Training and Recruiting Agency
Room 009A, Building 38B, Trenchard Lines
Upavon, Pewsey, Wiltshire, SN9 6BE

Dear Mr. <insert your own ruddy name>,

Thank you for your enquiry about service in the British Army. This letter, which is sent out to all overseas applicants, explains the entry criteria you have to meet before you can be enlisted.

First, you must be a Commonwealth citizen (which includes British citizens) or a citizen of the Irish Republic.

Second, you must have been born in the United Kingdom, The Republic of Ireland or a Comonwealth Country or, if you were born elsewhre, you must be a British citizen who holds a current passpot issued by the government fo teh United Kingdom (as distinct from the government of a British overseas or dependent territory).

You must qualify (or already have been granted) leave to enter and remain in the United Kingdom under the Immigration Rules. Commonwealth citizens may be given leave to enter by the British High Commision in their own country to take or seek employment within the Armed Forces without a work permit, privided they obtain an entry clearance for the purpose of travelling. You passport will be checked on arrival to ensure such clarance has been granted and that you have the right of abode in the United Kingdom.

Next, there is a requirement for some applicants to have resided in the United Kingdom for the 5 years (10 years in some instances) immediately prior to enlistment. If you cannot meet this criterion it may limit the employment opportunities within the Army. However, waivers may be granted in some cases. Please complete and return the attached Personal Details Questionnaire to establish your nationality and residency status. We will notify you if you are ineligible for enlistment.

You must be between the ages of 16 years and 26 years 11 months (at the time of enlistment) and be abelt o produce a birth certificate. Additionally if you are between the ages of 16 and 18 years, you will require the written consent of both your parents. The maximum age for entry fora full career engagement in most empolyment groups is 26 years 11 months, but limited opportunities do exist for applicants up to the age of 30 years. For officer candidates the maximum age for entry is under 29 years. (Please note that the minimum commitment for service in the British Army is four years from the date of enlistment.

BRENDA WHITTON (MRS)
Administative Assistant
for Commander Recruiting


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## Duotone81 (17 Sep 2003)

Mr. Sherwood



> These types of comments make me physically ill, there is really no reason for such garbage.


When frequenting this Canadian discussion forum you should really grow some thicker skin. Especially considering these opinions orginate from a medium which allows every Tom, **** and Harry an international voice. But I digress...

I have to agree with Aquilus Lupin here. The primary function of a military is to preserve self interest where self interest is defined as self defense, economic, politcal etc. Obviously there are the peace-keeping missions as well. To join a military for the sole purpose of doing "good"? You mean by preserving that nations existance right?


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## Jarnhamar (17 Sep 2003)

French gave them weapons in the 70‘s. Americans have done pretty good at taking over.
Now their talking about killing the head boss? Thats not going to start a riot.


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## nULL (17 Sep 2003)

The French sell weapons to everyone; Nasser had French jets and tanks too. To the best of my knowledge, the US "gives" Israel a certain amount of money every year to spend on American weaponry. Can anyone verify this? I heard about it, but ****ed if I can remember from where.... 

Here‘s a question for you Sherwood...you evidently seem to _really_ hate the French, so what‘s the difference if I say I hate Americans? Wouldn‘t that make us BOTH idiots?


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## muskrat89 (17 Sep 2003)

Nothing like a mob mentality. Theres been quite a few members of this board (older, I assume) that have expressed pro-Canadian, or "unpro-American" sentiments that were mature, logical, and well expressed; whether I agreed or not. Most of you sound like pouty teenagers, practicing anti-American sentiments because it‘s chic - not because you actually have clues what you‘re talking about. Go back to your paintball and online (American produced, for the most part) role-playing games.

And if that‘s not bad enough, now we have PETA on the board. Idealistic kids. Maybe we can all get on the magic train and take a whimsical trip to the chocolate mountains and candyland junction....


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## Jarnhamar (18 Sep 2003)

I personally do not like many of the policies of the US and things they have done through out history. Give money to someone, they turn on the US, US goes in and kicks some a$$. Horrible circle.
Through media, history books and personal experience i‘ve formed my own opinion as no doubt others have.


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## muskrat89 (18 Sep 2003)

So, Canadian government policies through the years are representative of the Canadian People?? C‘mon...       I can‘t recall a Canadian Govenrment, Federal or Provincial, that I would say ever reflected my psyche/beliefs as a Canadian

Hand-wringing, fence-sitting, patronage laden bunch of hacks. Instead of taking stands, they try to play both sides (often). 

Chretien‘s son-in-law sits on the board of the largest oil company having involvement in pre-war Iraq - a company from France. THAT, I believe, is why we didn‘t support the US - not because of some pure form of Canadian ideals. So don‘t wax- poetic about sleazy Americans protecting their own self-interests...

You guys are missing the point - 90% of policy makers are sleazeballs. We are talking about the people. American people and Canadian people both have their quirks, but no one has a monopoly on morons. Say what you will - the terrorist attacks were on American people. And people from 40 or 50 other countries. Figuratively against politics maybe, but it was normal people. I can tell you, it‘s easy to sit in the safety of a message board, and pontificate - unless you were here, you will never understand. Have some nut fly a plane into the CN Tower because of softwood tarriffs - then sit back, and say - "we shouldn‘t feel defensive, its a result of our foreign policies." Maybe somebody of Japanese descent, who was interned during WWII. They have a legitimate bone to pick. I felt attacked that day, and I was 3700 miles away. Me. My family. My friends. If you guys heard some civvie running down the Military, would you agree? Would you not get defensive? Probably, you‘d tell them that until they did time in, they have not earned the right to very many opinions. Well, that was in the old days. In today‘s PC world, everyone has rights, no one has rights. Everyone is a TV-schooled armchair quarterback.


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## Infanteer (18 Sep 2003)

Thank you Muskrat, for bringing some sense to this lame topic.  My Dad is married to an American, and I sure don‘t see a difference between the two.

Your right.  Both Canada and the US have some good and bad politicians and good and bad policies, but in the end run, your not fighting for Jean Cretian/George Bush/The Queen or Gay Marriage/Affirmative Action/Lower Gas Prices.
When it comes down to the man in the trench, the average soldier (British, Canadian, American) sits on the line between civilization and barbarism so that countless others back home can sleep peacefully at night, get married, have kids, take them to a park, watch a movie, eat a BigMac etc, etc without having to worry about being killed in the process of this.  This kid has the courage to sign up for the United States Marine Corps and you have the cojones to sit on the internet and tell him he‘s made a mistake based on the politics of the day.
F*ck, half of you turds are civilians with no idea of what military service means anyways.
Do this.  Go down and join the Canadian Army.  Complete all your training and go to your posting.  You will most likely work with soldiers from our  *allied* armies (i.e. America, the first exercise I ever did was in Fort Lewis]  Then, go on an operational tour to some sh*thole where 90% hate Americans and the West and general and will probably try to kill you, than come back and come on this board and give your opinion to this kid.


In the end, who are you ultimatly going to side with, the American who lives a life pretty similar to yours and believes in the same fundamental ideals, or the guy living in a cave, burning your flag, and planning to kill your kids.


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## erikkusiak (18 Sep 2003)

> Thank you Muskrat, for bringing some sense to this lame topic. My Dad is married to an American, and I sure don‘t see a difference between the two.
> 
> Your right. Both Canada and the US have some good and bad politicians and good and bad policies, but in the end run, your not fighting for Jean Cretian/George Bush/The Queen or Gay Marriage/Affirmative Action/Lower Gas Prices.
> In the end, a British, American, or Canadian soldier sits on the line between civilization and barbarism is so that countless others back home can sleep peacefully at night, get married, have kids, take them to a park, watch a movie, eat a BigMac etc, etc without having to worry about being killed in the process of this. This kid has the courage to sign up for the United States Marine Corps and you have the cojones to sit on the internet and tell him he‘s made a mistake based on the politics of the day. F*ck, most of you turds are civilians with no idea of what military service means anyways.
> ...


Thank you sir for your support. I don‘t really know what to say other then what I said before about why I am joining. Honestly I am not 100% sure why, it just seemed right after all the research.


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## Infanteer (18 Sep 2003)

Trust me, you are going to like it in the USMC.  I don‘t think there is any unit that values esprit-de-corps and traditon like the Marines.  The way in which they honor the title Marine displays this.  (Plus, they have by far the BEST dress uniform in the world).
Just remember when you get to Parris Island, keep your mouth shut, listen to your DI‘s, and give it 110%, because you are representing Canada in some form.


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## bbupd (18 Sep 2003)

> Trust me, you are going to like it in the USMC. I don‘t think there is any unit that values esprit-de-corps and traditon like the Marines. The way in which they honor the title Marine displays this. (Plus, they have by far the BEST dress uniform in the world).
> Just remember when you get to Parris Island, keep your mouth shut, listen to your DI‘s, and give it 110%, because you are representing Canada in some form.


And this is exactly why the USMC is so appealing... its all about the ‘Semper Fi‘.....


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## Bill Smy (18 Sep 2003)

I once read that more Canadians served in US forces in Vietnam (about 60,000) than American draft dodgers came to Canada. Perhaps someone connected with a Canadian Vietnam veteran organization can confirm those numbers.

There are estimates that 50,000 Canadians served in the Union Army and up to 20,000 in the Confederate Army during the US Civil War.

Having said all that, I have difficulty in the rationale that one can retain citizenship while in the armed services of a foreign nation. Just where are your loyalties supposed to lie? The same arguements surround the concept of dual citizenship.

There is ample current evidence that many nations do not recognize the concept of dual citizenship, and that if a person holds their citizenship, then they are fully accountable to their legal system.


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## erikkusiak (18 Sep 2003)

> And this is exactly why the USMC is so appealing... its all about the ‘Semper Fi‘.....


Its true. You can really feel like you belong to something important. I have the small arms in my rear window and in my drive from Montreal to Orlando I got at least a dozen honks and waves, from both people with the arms in their window and from those who didn‘t. The amount of respect is amazing. It‘s not why I joined, but it does feel good. You have the backing of the people you are fighting for, for the most part.


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## bbupd (18 Sep 2003)

> Its true. You can really feel like you belong to something important.


Once a Marine, always a marine...

I noticed this while on another bulletin board for off roading.. several US Marines or former marines.. and even though they don‘t know each other, the comraderie is still there..

As for those who feel we should be more dedicated to our citizenship.. tell me.. what is "Canadian"?? The political lines that our passports reflect, are younger than 2 human life times.... In the grand scheme of things, its in its infantile stages compared to Europe where countries have existed for thousands of years, in one form or another...


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## Walter Brunszwick (18 Sep 2003)

> When it comes down to the man in the trench, the average soldier (British, Canadian, American) sits on the line between civilization and barbarism so that countless others back home can sleep peacefully at night, get married, have kids, take them to a park, watch a movie, eat a BigMac etc, etc without having to worry about being killed in the process of this.


Infanteer, I don‘t know whether to call this, except plain and absolute  *ignorance* . The United States is fighting against another country, having NOTHING to do with "home" security!!! Is the U.S. gov‘t telling you Americans this? I have analysed this war, and can assure you that U.S. is not doing this for "home" security so that "countless others back home can sleep peacefully at night." I certainly hope that you are of higher intelligence and will not process that information.

On another subject, today, was an awesome day. I had some coffee and pastry in Law class in the morning, then at lunch bumped into a friend who was on his way to the Debating Club, which I had planned on joining in the R.M.C., but I decided to tag along anyways. Although not being a good public speaker, I hope to develop better public speaking skills and raise an issue on the subject of vaccinations upon joining the Canadian Army, which, I have heard have had some fatal effects in many cases. Any other things I should mention?

Other: Brace yourself gentlemen, hurricane en route to Toronto at an estimated 70km/h.


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## Infanteer (18 Sep 2003)

Waltz,

Read my post again, and than try and tell me about my job.  Until then, enjoy the pastry.


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## McInnes (18 Sep 2003)

Waltz, think man. Things go deeper than that.
Just because the fight isn‘t on your soil, does not mean that it has nothing to do with you. 

Were Canadians being ignorant during WWII? 

Contemplate things for awhile...


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## Jungle (18 Sep 2003)

> I hope to develop better public speaking skills and raise an issue on the subject of vaccinations upon joining the Canadian Army, which, I have heard have had some fatal effects in many cases. Any other things I should mention?


Aside from the fact that you are an idiot, no. I have been in the CF 20 years, and received more than my share of shots, and have never heard of someone die as a result of vaccination. Before you write some piece of junk on the Military, try to join and serve a few years, maybe then I would pay attention.
To the rest of the wannabes who think they know everything, we are looking for a new Prime-Minister at the moment. Apply now, before you forget most of the stuff and become one of us adults...
Kusiak, if you are comfortable with joining the USMC, go for it. They are a great bunch of guys... And as far as I am concerned, joining the USMC is no worse than joining the FFL or the British Military.
Muskrat, nice to see you‘re still around... Take care.


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## Jarnhamar (18 Sep 2003)

WaltZ i hope your going to english class as well.

"I have analysed this war, and can assure you that U.S. is not doing this for "home" security so that "countless others back home can sleep peacefully at night."

Things changed a lot since i took law in kingston.


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## muskrat89 (18 Sep 2003)

Hey Jungle - nice to see your voice of reason descend upon us now and then - good to see you too. Not much worthy of comment these days - "never argue with a fool, at the end you won‘t know which one is which"  or something like that. I agree with you wholeheartedly - too many enlightened geniuses on the board lately.....


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## McInnes (18 Sep 2003)

> Aquilus Lupin, if you are comfortable with joining the USMC, go for it.


Just for clarification, I wasn‘t the one planning to join the USMC.


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## Jungle (18 Sep 2003)

Aquilus Lupin, you have no choice now... you will have to join the USMC... 
Seriously, after reading the last 4 pages of useless written diarhea, I forgot who initiated this... my mistake. But my post was mainly directed at waltz‘s incredibly stupid remarks...


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## bbupd (19 Sep 2003)

> Seriously, after reading the last 4 pages of useless written diarhea, I forgot who initiated this... my mistake. But my post was mainly directed at waltz‘s incredibly stupid remarks...


Considering I have taken part in "the last 4 pages of useless written diarhea", I thought I‘d reply with a request for "enlightenment" from someone who has actually served... Whats your taken on military service? Care to share some of your inside knowledge?

I suppose what I take to heart is the personal attacks made on those of us "wannabe‘s"  who don‘t know because of the lack of information thats actually out there.. and I‘m sorry, but with a mortgage and family I can‘t afford to take "sign up and find your answers" as the only response to many questions...

Only thing I can say is, yes, I can appreciate that some of you who are in the CF may take comments from ungrateful civs to heart.. but at the same time, have some patience... Just because I don‘t know what you do, doesn‘t mean I‘m not worthy.

Regards, and respect...


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## FIFO (19 Sep 2003)

You may not go to the Island. If you‘re west of the Mississip, you‘ll go to the MCRD in San Diego and then Pendleton ( Oceanside ) for your last month. No disrespect intended, but I understand all the chick recruits are sent to PI for basic. I don‘t think any female recruits are sent to basic on the west coast. At least that‘s the last thing I heard. Probably bull****. Odds are, you won‘t be deployed to the ME. 

Deployment: You WON‘T be going to Iraq.  The 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment returned to the States from Iraq on September 6, 2003.  The 1st Battalion, 4th Marines and the 2nd Combat Engineer Battalion departed Iraq for Kuwait on or about September 10 in preparation for a return to the United States. There is currently no Marine Corp. contingent in Iraq. 101st Airborne replaced much of the Marines in Afghanistan in January. I *believe* there is a MEU there now. 

However, Rummy has got to start rotating troops out of Iraq in the next 8 months. He says he‘s doing it with reserves. We‘ll see, ‘eh‘ ?

If you go to fas.org or globalsecurity.org, they have a fairly good listing of deployments and order of battle in specific operations.

Good luck to you, sir.


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## Infanteer (19 Sep 2003)

Well, I am pretty much done with Waltz, he can go join Pilotgal for all I f*cking care.

To anyone who is offended by remarks made here, remember, this site is called Army.ca, not Armywannabe.ca, or Informedcivilian.ca.  It is nice to see eager young guys come around (h*ll, I was one myself a while back) BUT, don‘t step on your d*ck by trying to talk sh*t to some of the senior soldiers on this site because your read the Globe and Mail.  These guys literally have boots older than you, and they don‘t give a fat rats a*s if you think they are wrong, ignorant, or narrow-minded.

All I can say is that if you have not served you are an outsider looking in.  I‘ll be happy to try and explain things to the best of my knowledge, but don‘t call me ignorant.  I officially withdraw from this thread with a favorite quote of mine.

_"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause;who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails,at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."_ 

Take Care
Infanteer


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## Walter Brunszwick (19 Sep 2003)

Infanteer, I realize it is deep. Sorry for being so critical right away. I realize many soldiers put their life on the line, whether it is for good or bad government.

Aquilus Lupin, I understand.

Jungle, I am surprised, for I heard of it before, it was before my time, so I wasn‘t sure. I recall having a discussion with the guidance councillor about something related, but forgot what exactly. I am not disputing that there are a great bunch of guys in the USMC, but it is your decision.

Ghost778? I am taking English. I am not enlisted in the RMC yet...

Concerning the war in Iraq, I sure hope the US will haul ***  soon, as well as the Canadians stationed there, before it turns into another ****in‘ Vietnam.

Overall, I do realize that many plans that one had before quickly vanished       , perhaps as I planned to become Brigadier General Walter Brunszwick, and lead a great force into a desperate battle, I will become a Lieutenant after graduation from the RMC, or perhaps a 3rd Class Private among a bunch of guys in the trenches waiting to go over the top. I have not decided fully the course I will take through life, but whatever I do, I certainly hope it can be of significance in making the world a better place.


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## bbupd (19 Sep 2003)

Oh well this *was* a decent thread.


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## muskrat89 (19 Sep 2003)

Waltz - I‘d be curious as to what extensive military and political research you‘ve done, in order to conclude, in your detailed analysis, that there‘s any chance of Iraq becoming another Vietnam. They are as different as night and day. I suspect you‘ve been listening to the same left-wing, sensationalist media that accused the US Military of "floundering", etc., on their trip to Baghdad. I‘m not the historian that M Dorosh or some of the others are, but that seemed to be quite a campaign, regardless of how the media tried to spin it. Frankly, I agree with some of the others - listen and learn, or stick to pastry reviews


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## Jungle (19 Sep 2003)

> Jungle, I am surprised, for I heard of it before, it was before my time, so I wasn‘t sure.


WTF are you talking about... you NEVER had your time, and with the attitude you demonstrate here, it is likely you never will. Carry on, donut boy...


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## Infanteer (19 Sep 2003)

Nobody listens to me...


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## Walter Brunszwick (19 Sep 2003)

Yes, I know Muskrat. I have considered the media too. I am not saying Iraq will become (literally) Vietnam, but more and more troops will continually be sent their until they "win" the war. This could potentially happen, or it could not.

Jungle, please don‘t insult me. I would die for Canada. Do not address me as "donut boy." What arrogant fool in the army would have such low dignity and respect, EH?

When I enlist, I sure hope you treat me, as well as any other, better than you have displayed here...


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## Jungle (19 Sep 2003)

Waltz, I suggest you re-read Infanteer‘s post at the top of page 7. If you can‘t take a little flak, don‘t join !!!


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## muskrat89 (19 Sep 2003)

Infanteer - I listen to you!     You, Jungle, and a handful of others.

Waltz - You ain‘t seen nuthin yet, chum. For most of us, respect is earned, not assumed. Not sure what kind of pre-conceived notions you have of military life, but surely military life hasn‘t changed THAT much, since I got out...you may be willing to die for your country - I can only hope that they won‘t be mean to you, before they kill you . What a way to go - latte poured on the ground, your danish spit on, called some names, disagreed with - after all that, death would be a welcome relief, I‘m sure


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## Duotone81 (19 Sep 2003)

Kusiak,

    I just want to give you some props for doing what you‘re doing. In retrospect I think it takes some big balls to be a Marine (especially a Canadian one!). So good luck with everything and be strong.

cheers!


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## McInnes (19 Sep 2003)

> I will become a Lieutenant after graduation from the RMC, or perhaps a 3rd Class Private among a bunch of guys in the trenches waiting to go over the top.


I strongly recommend you do a lot more *research* before you make any more "plans".


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## Walter Brunszwick (19 Sep 2003)

Well. Whoowh. Thanks for that vote of confidence gentlemen           . I had not experienced any form of military life, so I don‘t really know what to expect, other than discipline, respect, training, and so forth... They way I percieve army life on a regular basis is rise and shine at 6:00am to a beugal, raise the Canadian flag (proudly may I add), eat breakfast, morning training, studies, training, dinner, sleep. This procedure would seem rather repetative I would image day by day, but cannot think of any other regular, or extra-ordinary events. It would be to my interests if one of you could please explain of a more detailed schedule...

*"The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet." - Aristotle* 

*"I‘d rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star. I‘d rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might have-been has never been, but a has was once an are." - Milton Berle*


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## erikkusiak (20 Sep 2003)

Thanks for the well wishes guys... hope to see some of you out there in the future.


Ship out date got pushed back to 7 Jan. Looks like i‘ll be home for the holidays. Mom‘s going to be happy


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## KC8 (23 Sep 2003)

Best of luck Erik.

I was always interested in the armed forces too. After talking to you I checked the the British Army and to my surpise I was eligible. Talked to adminstration there and I have a solid chance of getting in. 

Reason why i‘m choosing the UK over Canadian army is because I see more potential career opportunities. Sadly, the Canadian government just doesn‘t seem to fund the army enough.


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## Walter Brunszwick (23 Sep 2003)

That is true. I would like to be a part of a bigger force, such as the United States, even though they borrowed billions of dollars from countries, including the UN, and never payed it back (that is how they got a lot of their weaponry). The Canadian government should purchase some B52s and nuclear bombs so that we can also blow up some **** in Iraq.

But look on it through the good side: we have a first rate health-care and education system.


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## Jason Jarvis (23 Sep 2003)

"That is true. I would like to be a part of a bigger force, such as the United States, even though they borrowed billions of dollars from countries, including the UN, and never payed it back (that is how they got a lot of their weaponry). The Canadian government should purchase some B52s and nuclear bombs so that we can also blow up some **** in Iraq."

WTF? I hate to slag anybody expressing their own opinions, but do you actually *read* what you‘re posting?   :blotto: 

Come on, kid, fight the urge to spew and save us some bandwidth.


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## GrahamD (23 Sep 2003)

> I recall having a discussion with the guidance councillor about something related, but forgot what exactly.


I think that says it all for Waltz.
  He recalls some things he‘s heard, but doesn‘t recall exactly what they were, yet he feels compelled to form (and discuss) his opinions based on his vague fleeting memories of some useless tidbit of info that he picked up, God only knows where (the guidance counseller maybe).

"Uh-oh Wolf Blitzer on CNN just asked Joe "Nobody" Civilian if the USA is at risk of entering another Vietnam scenario in the war with Iraq.  And Joe said yes!
 Pass me my pastry, I‘m heading over to the debate club to warn the other future Brigadier Generals (or 3rd class privates) You know, whichever comes first."



> Well. Whoowh. Thanks for that vote of confidence gentlemen  . I had not experienced any form of military life, so I don‘t really know what to expect, other than discipline, respect, training, and so forth... They way I percieve army life on a regular basis is rise and shine at 6:00am to a beugal, raise the Canadian flag (proudly may I add), eat breakfast, morning training, studies, training, dinner, sleep. This procedure would seem rather repetative I would image day by day, but cannot think of any other regular, or extra-ordinary events. It would be to my interests if one of you could please explain of a more detailed schedule...


No one has "confidence" in you about anything at this point I would think.
  There are people who come here and are overly eager, and gung-ho to join up, and go a little overboard expressing opinions, thoughts, and even a little bit of nonsense.  Many who are in the process of joining up.
  It‘s natural at that point to be really excited, really enthusiastic, and really lacking the perspective to see that the long time users of this board are interested in helping out potential new recruits gather useful information, and having valid discussions with other(past/present) members  of the CF.
  What they are not interested in, is indulging childrens war fantasies,  listening to civilians spew out garbage facts about the CF, or knowing what you Waltz had for breakfast as you went about preparing for a career as the Brigadier General (or 3rd class private).

It says a lot that you don‘t even know what to expect on an average day of service in the CF.
  That kind of information is readily available on the internet, not to mention that this forum in particular will have a lot of information relating to life in the military.
  If you can‘t even research information that pertains to the career path (Brigadier General) that you have set out for yourself, how are we supposed to have confidence that you have researched the complex and multi-layered politics involved in the war in Iraq, or any other topic currently up for discussion.


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## Walter Brunszwick (23 Sep 2003)

GrahamD, you didn‘t read me. I am not saying anyone of you has confidence in me, I was saying that I appreciate the "confidence" that everyone here has bestowed upon me.

You guys are not telling me squat other than critisizing my "lack of knowledge." I would feel a lot better if you would tell me how it‘s like so that I will at least know what to expect upon enlistment. I am doing this for my country, the least you fellas could do is show me some courtesy and respect.

Sherwood, I always consider both sides of an argument. I was informed that the U.S. borrowed billions of dollars from the U.N. which they haven‘t retured. Reasons why I am more likely to believe this fact is because the United States practically runs the U.N. For example, in front of the U.N., U.S. sought to bring forward an issue to deal with Iraq, but France made an opposing statement, and France being one of the 5 permanent members would mean that the entire issue would immediately be dropped. What the **** did U.S. do? Invade Iraq...


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## McInnes (23 Sep 2003)

Waltz, before going off on not being told what life is like, or other info on the CF, by members of this board, you should go to the handy search function, and do a search for things you want to know. Most things have been stated over and over at some point on these boards. 

If you find anything that you believe should be part of the FAQ, PM me and let me know.

G‘luck.


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## Walter Brunszwick (23 Sep 2003)

No problem. Shall do indeed. I‘m just rather busy nowadays with these confouded studies, and I have not been able to do much intense researching. When I get the time, I shall browse through about the R.M.C. and the C.F.

Thanks for the advice, Walter Brunszwick.


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## Walter Brunszwick (23 Sep 2003)

Sherwood, what are you getting at?

If you would like to dissprove my theory that the U.S. borrows money from the U.N. and does not return it, tell me why the U.S. did not listen to France when they opposed the war? Could it be possible that your "government" is really not telling you all the facts, EH?

I cannot quite recall who Ted Bundy was, but I think your "Canadian accent" theory is bull****, pardon my French.


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## Jarnhamar (23 Sep 2003)

Is this where we get to debate the difference in violent crimes between Canada and the US?

I can‘t see the US having to borrow money from anyone, especially the UN. That would if anything look weak.


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## GrahamD (23 Sep 2003)

But is it true that the US fell 10 years behind in their UN dues?

I heard that on the news a few years ago.


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## OLD SCHOOL (24 Sep 2003)

Major,
Why do i detect a tit for tat tid bit in your posts.
The USA has the market cornered on serial killers and general freaks of nature and yes we produce our fair share as well. I still eat bacon by the way and good old Ted just could not take no for an answer.
I guess my question is that why as an educated man do you need to argue with those that you know are incorrect? ex. U.N?
Forged a bout it. Useless debate about this or that and tit for tat doesn‘t go anywhere. I think world events speak for themselves and when we land in the **** our countries work together.
Besides, the U.N and even NATO are non factors in the world these days.


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## Jarnhamar (24 Sep 2003)

I‘ve noticed that as well but it makes things interesting at the very least. Subtle and respectful but the zing is still there heh.


Speaking of which,  whatever happened to that american soldier who threw the grenade at his fellow soldiers, i haven‘t heard much about that in the news lately. (Kinda died out like that whole jessica lynch medal of honour hero biz) Does that happen often in the US army? I read in the news some time ago that marines from one base were arrested and charged beause they were planning on going to the next marine base over and blow up some of the guys there. Keep your enemies close but your friends closer i guess.


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## bbupd (24 Sep 2003)

Ah yes.. but Ghost.... did they call in a tactical air strike on them? Oh wait.. those pilots thought they were under attack....


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## deathwing5 (24 Sep 2003)

ah yes, Hasan Akbar he threw the grenade into the tent.  He was afraid that god would punish him for fighting against fellow muslims. Dont know the exact words of it, but that‘s pretty much it.  Awful thing really.


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## Jarnhamar (24 Sep 2003)

It‘s incredible how people can justify acts of murder in the name of "god".

In most religions versions of the bible suicide and murder are sins, yet people always have an excuse for it. I think they should give him the death penality, simple as that.


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## muskrat89 (24 Sep 2003)

In my opinion, the Major has endured far more tits, than he has responded with tats...

Heck, Old School - I can‘t stop arguing with the whiners, morons, goofballs, ill-informed, or naive - that‘s practically the only time I post!!


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## OLD SCHOOL (24 Sep 2003)

I understand as it is tough to read five by five on a chat board.
My point was that it is way too easy to get a school yard sand kicking session going,that is all.
I spent a lot of time on exchange and I always appreciated my time with the U.S forces so perhaps I am even sensative to the red and white beaver eaters getting on thier soapbox. We have nothing to crow about as we have a system that has sold out the regular soldier and a government that can defy any reasonable description of competent.
I live in Canada but work in the U.S and abroad so I get a pretty good picture of current events.
I got into this line of work in the 1980‘s because I thought times would get tough and boy did they.
We need a little more cooperation among countries at the moment.
To get back to the topic, U.S, Can, U.K, forces, just go for it with your gut and give it all.We are all working for the same thing.Security.


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## Walter Brunszwick (24 Sep 2003)

"We need a little more cooperation among countries at the moment."
I really couldn‘t agree more. Right now though, there is great tension among large countries.

If I ever to get to a high rank in the military, hopefully I could form some sort of alliances to help the Third-World countries, such as Ukraine, Iraq, Turkey, and so forth, for they currently are in great dispair, where violence and crimes are at a high level.

I don‘t understand how your fellow soldiers could turn on you. Is there not any loyalty amongst themselves. In war, you look out for each other, and fight for each other, for yourself, and for your country.

_"Wars have never hurt anybody except the people who die."_ -Salvador Dali

_"Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being."_ 
-Kahlil Gibran, "The Voice of the Poet"

_"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind."_ -John Fitzgerald Kennedy


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## Jungle (24 Sep 2003)

Obviously, in the last few pages, this topic has been hijacked, stolen, raped and nearly murdered... And now, Waltz comes around with this:


> If I ever to get to a high rank in the military, hopefully I could form some sort of alliances to help the Third-World countries, such as Ukraine, Iraq, Turkey, and so forth


He he he... I can‘t believe this... imagine the news headlines in 2034:
"Canadian General walter Brunswick has struck a deal with the interim government of the troubled island of Mauritius. The Gen has approved the deployment of 2 MP PL to help restore order in the republic, which in exchange has agreed to send 50 000 t-shirts bearing the "Hard Rock Cafe-Baghdad" logo to canada"
Do you smell a Nobel Peace prize ???


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## Rian_Ca (24 Sep 2003)

WOW,that one takes the cake.Im starting to think Waltz does it on purpose.

How old are you,and how far are you in the recruitment process?

Your ideas are...unique,myabe you should ask what recce41 thinks of them.hehehe


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## Duotone81 (24 Sep 2003)

Delusions of grandeur?   



> If I ever to get to a high rank in the military, hopefully I could form some sort of alliances to help the Third-World countries, such as Ukraine, Iraq, Turkey, and so forth, for they currently are in great dispair, where violence and crimes are at a high level.


Isn‘t foreign policy the job of our elected officials?


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## Duotone81 (24 Sep 2003)

Ahhh Waltz!!!


The unnecessary element of comic relief. I tip my hat to you fine sir!


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## Infanteer (3 Oct 2003)

However sir, he has paid more for his "citizenship" than most real American citizens.


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## Marauder (3 Oct 2003)

I think my bro means that by joining up and then going to a theatre of war, regardless of being "illiegal", this kid showed more patriotism and right to be titled "a true American" than Bubba from A$$f#ck, Alabama who thinks "‘Merca should be fer ‘Mer-cans" and yet hasn‘t done anything more than be the fortunate victim of random genetic selection coupled with good choice of geography.
In other words, unlike some people who were just born American, this kid CHOSE to be American through his choices and actions.
Take that for what you will.


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## bbupd (3 Oct 2003)

> I am not sure how to take that...was that a shot across the bow or just a smart a$$ remark.


My guess is, anyone can wave a flag... Not everyone will/would take a bullet...

I would read that as applicable to any country, and obviously excluded present company.


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## deathwing5 (3 Oct 2003)

> If I ever to get to a high rank in the military, hopefully I could form some sort of alliances to help the Third-World countries, such as Ukraine, Iraq, Turkey, and so forth, for they currently are in great dispair, where violence and crimes are at a high level.


Turkey?! What the ****, since when did my homeland become third-world country.  Well hey if you can fix something fix the **** cops, they‘re the crime.


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## shaunlin41 (4 Oct 2003)

Hey arty,  it‘s funny how every one rags on the cops untill they need one, then those same people become the biggest whiners!!!!


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## deathwing5 (4 Oct 2003)

hehe alrite you got me, I know they instill a good thing in society, but alot of them sell drugs that‘s all i‘m actually complaining about.  Other than that the people hold up the laws pretty good.


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## erikkusiak (16 Sep 2004)

HEY ALL!

I'm back! I been through hell the last 8 months. Basic training, then off to Infantry Training Battalion in North Carolina. I was originally trained as an 0352 (Anti-Tank Guided Missile Man) then also crossed trained as an 0331 (MachineGunner). I graduated at the top of my class in both 9 week courses and was set on being promoted to Lance Corporal.

Right before the end of training we were doing a cadence run and I was called out to lead the cadence. As I was running and calling it for some reason I don't know why I fell and stopped breathing. After waaay too many visits to the Navy Hospitals and all that BS ( DONT EVER GET HURT WHILE IN THE MARINES! ) I ended up being diagnosed with uncurable VCD. Or, Vocal Cord Dysfunction. Basically under too much stress my vocal cords swell and close up over my windpipe and I pass out. Now it's not just yelling, but stress in general they said. I was discharged Honorably and given an impossible to get back in reenlistment code. So basically they kicked me out for life. 

Most of the time Medical discharges take months and months to get and are usually fought out. I got mine in a few days over 1 month. Note: I have also had 3 of 9 Anthrax vaccines while I was in training that you get before being shipped out. Each time I got the vaccine up to a week after I had severe reactions. Swelling of the location, very sore, red spots and I had some toruble breathing I noticed. They told me it was normal. BS. But you can't argue too much with officers, plus I didn't want to get in trouble and lose my upcoming meritorious promotion. So it ended with me fainting and getting kicked out WAY too fast. Even some of my command fought for me to stay in, but the big cheeses I never met once told me I am out.

Not too sure what to do at this point. I will be looking into the Anthrax vaccine and hopefully getting some compensation from the Vetrans Affairs office.



Well thats my story to date. If I could do it again, I most definatly would. Besides all the BS that comes along with the Marines where they lie to you all the time... I really liked it alot. I learned tons about alot in this world, including how to hit within 3 inchs of my mark from 500 yards away in wind, rain and cold, WITHOUT a scope. 9 out of 10 times. I value everything I've done, and hope that maybe one day I can get back in. 

This Canadian Marine actually shed some tears when he was in front of his Captain, being told he's out of the Corps.


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## nbk (16 Sep 2004)

Well its better that you went ahead with it, instead of wondering what could have been.

I guess it just wasn't meant to be. At least you got the experience and you know you could put up with all of it, and in the end its better some uncontrolable thing stopped you instead of pussying out or being to weak to finish

And that training will no doubt come in handy some day..

Good job Marine


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## Sh0rtbUs (19 Sep 2004)

Even though you have been discharged, you can proudly say you were a Marine. Outstanding job, I envy you greatly.


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## Korus (19 Sep 2004)

> I graduated at the top of my class in both 9 week courses and was set on being promoted to Lance Corporal.



You'll always have that to be proud of, You know you're good when you repeatedly make top candidate.


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## Infanteer (25 Sep 2004)

Good on you.  You gave all you could give to Service.  Now you can go on with life knowing that deep down some part of you will bear the mark of the Corps.

Semper Fi


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## Spc_Cameron (2 Oct 2004)

Kusiak said:
			
		

> I did it.
> 
> I am not quite sure why. I tell people its because I can't feel like I am going to make a difference serving in a country that won't commit itself to anything... but thats probably a lie.
> 
> ...



dude I feel ya...  Im  Canadian serving in the US army Infantry.. onme year in Iraq.. fixin to go back  sometime next year


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## soon_to_be_infantry (31 Aug 2006)

When someone joins a foreign military its not that hes a trader or anything it that he wants to serve his new country. If you join the USMC you have to move to the states. This means its your NEW country. SO now you got to do your part in protecting it (if you wish). Your not serving another country, the country is now yours, you live in it. So your no trador. Your serving your new government.


Thats how i see it.

my 2 cents.


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## big bad john (31 Aug 2006)

soon_to_be_infantry said:
			
		

> When someone joins a foreign military its not that hes a trader or anything it that he wants to serve his new country. If you join the USMC you have to move to the states. This means its your NEW country. SO now you got to do your part in protecting it (if you wish). Your not serving another country, the country is now yours, you live in it. So your no trador. Your serving your new government.
> 
> 
> Thats how i see it.
> ...



You Lads are slowing down.  See how long it took you to bag this one.  You need a beer and a long rest.  Start over tomorrow.  Another day, another pest/troll/wannabee.  LOL  Good catch!


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## ProPatria031 (31 Aug 2006)

even if you didn't make it through training you made it farther then me. i couldn't get my American cit. so they didn't let me in.

your a luck canuck if you had to ask me
 :cheers:


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