# LCol collapses during BFT - 14 Aug 09



## dapaterson (15 Aug 2009)

Not a lot of details, but a story in the Ottawa Sun today:

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2009/08/14/10468831.html



> A 47-year-old senior army officer was rushed to hospital Friday after he collapsed during a training exercise in the west end.
> 
> Paramedics were called to the Connaught Range and Primary Training Centre just before 11 a.m. after a lieutenant colonel was found unconscious in a shallow ditch.
> 
> ...




Another article that does not mention the military aspect is at:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/found+unconscious+alerts+dangers+heat+wave/1896128/story.html


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## meni0n (15 Aug 2009)

Who in their right mind would do a 13km in that kind of heat?


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## PuckChaser (15 Aug 2009)

The better question is, who let him get that dehydrated? The buddy system is a lifesaver in hot days, you can do a BFT in any weather, as long as you bring the adequate water required and hydrate a lot beforehand. 200m short of the finish line and left for 10-20 minutes? I won't even get into how wrong that is.


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## basrah (15 Aug 2009)

meni0n said:
			
		

> Who in their right mind would do a 13km in that kind of heat?



Are you serious? So we should start moving training to allow it to be easier? No more winter ex if it is too cold out? Ive done BFTs when it is -20 and + 40, never have I seen a soldier pass out.

As for who let him get dehydrated, well, he did. He is a grown man, and just because he is a senior officer does not mean he should have someone watching his water intake. A buddy system is great, but if he is worrying about hydration while on the march, he is already in trouble. To properly hydrate he should have been saturating his body with water for a week before hand. 

There may be unseen factors here of course. Was he sick? Physically unprepared?


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## Roy Harding (15 Aug 2009)

basrah said:
			
		

> Are you serious? So we should start moving training to allow it to be easier? No more winter ex if it is too cold out? Ive done BFTs when it is -20 and + 40, never have I seen a soldier pass out.
> 
> As for who let him get dehydrated, well, he did. He is a grown man, and just because he is a senior officer does not mean he should have someone watching his water intake. A buddy system is great, but if he is worrying about hydration while on the march, he is already in trouble. To properly hydrate he should have been saturating his body with water for a week before hand.
> 
> There may be unseen factors here of course. Was he sick? Physically unprepared?



I agree with you, basrah.  Except for two things:

I HAVE seen a soldier pass out from heat exhaustion - granted he was a junior Private, and the CofC should have had a closer eye on him.  

And the part about hydrating for a week before the BFT.  In various units I was proud to serve with (Cdn AB Regt and 3 VP are two that jump immediately to mind) - it was a matter of pride that the CO just woke up in the morning and said to himself - let's do a BFT today.  When you arrived to work, you were told "Ruck up, draw your weapon - we're goin' for a walk".  No chance to hydrate for a week before - just get goin' and make sure you have water in your canteen.

As you said - it still remains to be seen if this particular fellow had pre-existing health concerns (known or undetected).

Roy


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## medaid (15 Aug 2009)

There may have been preexisting medical conditions known or unknown to the individual. Lets just hope that the member recovers quickly.


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## Roy Harding (15 Aug 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> ... Lets just hope that the member recovers quickly.



Absolutely - and I should have voiced the same sentiment in my earlier post.


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## basrah (15 Aug 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I agree with you, basrah.  Except for two things:
> 
> I HAVE seen a soldier pass out from heat exhaustion - granted he was a junior Private, and the CofC should have had a closer eye on him.
> 
> ...



Very true. A lot of the younger soldiers really do not know how to prepare for a BFT. Some think that a set of good socks and a bit of stretching will do it. As leaders, snr troops should be looking after the greenhorns.

Also, you are very correct in the lack of preparation. I am sure anyone who did the old 2x10 can attest that there wasnt always time to properly prepare for hydration, and often it was a fastball.

That being said though, in this day, we are all given fair warning about a BFT (95% of the time), and it ultimately does lay in the hands of the soldier to prepare. Of course the soldier must be taught properly as well.

Remember all, if you are thirsty, you are already dehydrated.

Best wishes for a fast recovery.


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## PMedMoe (15 Aug 2009)

I won't say much because I am privy to some information regarding this.

I will say, this officer was in _extremely_ good shape for a man his age and no stranger to BFTs and preparing for them.

It's one thing to train in extreme heat or cold when it needs to be done, quite another when it's unnecessary.  That being said, at Connaught, they do a BFT every month, so I'm quite sure they could have canceled this one.

Also, there is a such thing as over hydrating.  A person consumes too much water and their heart and lungs have to struggle to work against waterlogged muscles.

Yes, here's hoping for a speedy recovery for this fine gentleman (yes, I've met him).

Edit to add:  The reason no one knew where he was is because he was well ahead (about 0.5 km) of the main body and took a different turn to the finish point.  (Either the route was not marked or had not been explained).  It was only noted that he was missing when everyone else finished.  He was actually off the road in high grass.


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## Roy Harding (15 Aug 2009)

In the interest of not hijacking this thread - I'd invite those interested to discuss Fitness Standards over in this old thread:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/23380.0.html  Go to the last page for the latest additions.

I'll copy a couple of posts from here that I'd like to discuss further.


Roy


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## COBRA-6 (15 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I won't say much because I am privy to some information regarding this.
> 
> I will say, this officer was in _extremely_ good shape for a man his age and no stranger to BFTs and preparing for them.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the extra info, put the situation in context the news articles lacked.

Speedy recovery to the LCol.


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## mariomike (15 Aug 2009)

Best wishes to the Officer for a speedy recovery.


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## 1feral1 (15 Aug 2009)

Firstly I hope this man recovers fully and soon.

Living in Australia where it is generally hot during most of the time, when an Aussie BFT is on (called a CFA Combat Fitness Assessment - 15km w/pack webbing, rifle in 2h20min followed by an obstical course which is usually done first  :nod: ), we run them usually on a Friday, starting at 0530h, and men are encouraged to down a water bottle before they go, and have 5 litres on them to consume on the way.

After the CFA, we thow a BBQ of snags and dampers, with Cokes or sometimes beer if authorised, and people are cut loose by 1100 for the wknd to recover for Monday.

The use of safety vehicles, and sentries comes in handy, and assists in the potential recovery of injured pers should anyone come into strife during the hell-walk.

Perhaps in warm weather, the organisers of these BFTs could start much earlier than doing this during the heat buidling time of the day. even in Canada the sun is a killer.

That being said, the supervision of those participating should ensure that water is taken as a group before the trek starts.

This sounds like heads should roll on certain organisers.



Just my view.

OWDU

Ya, edited for spelling....


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## fire_guy686 (15 Aug 2009)

Best wishes for a quick recovery.


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## 1feral1 (15 Aug 2009)

Thought I'd add this in too....

We have a well advanced notice of a CFA, usually several months.

So we become prepared over a time frame, doing battle PT, along with normal PT usually most days in the week, plus sportie Thursday arvos. As time progresses, mini CFAs, first with webbing, then with webbing & rifle, then with webbing, rifle and pack.

This helps out anyone from getting the shock of a CFA thrown at them, and also covers the Unit for duty of care, etc.

With this lead up trg, along with early morning CFA starts, proper supervison, and proper hydration, usually there is a good outcome, with only visits to the RAP (MIR) for blisters and related injuries from the walk.

I think that is all common sense, and maybe there should be more of it used WRT the injury of this Officer.

OWDU


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## FormerHorseGuard (16 Aug 2009)

I am very old now almsot hitting the 40 mark soon, I remember back in 1993 when the LFCA HQ put out the CRS ( Combat Readiness Standard). I worked at the Headquarters a cpl at the time and we had to do the fitness run at base Toronto near the Base Hospital down to the enlisted married quarters and back. 3.2 KM run. We had a CPL who ran marathons for a hobby  and he was the front  guy  for the run. He took off at a high rate of speed and a Captain decided he would try and keep up to the CPL,  never took the warning from other officers and some us nicer enlisted men not to even try and keep up to the CPL. The Captain did not keep up and ended up takign a ride to a hospital by ambulance. Another Major from the same section who was running at her pace also hit the ground and needed a ride to the hospital for medical support .

Both officers trained for this run/test for weeks as a group and on own time.
Poor planning or trying to do something your body  is not properly  conditioned to do  can cause many  problems.  Some younger soldiers also had issues on this run and did not finish it under own power.

Just because you  know the running is coming up does not mean Murphy  does not come for the ride and does his best to screw you  up. 

The Cpl in this story  he did manage  to be the first across the line and was there at the end point reading out everyones timing.  His time was under 13 minutes if memory serves me, my  time was just over 17 minutes. well under the 22 minutes allowed.

I hope the LCol recovers and soem other soldiers learn from his mistake or learns from his accident.  But I guess he was leading from the front.


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## meni0n (16 Aug 2009)

basrah said:
			
		

> Are you serious? So we should start moving training to allow it to be easier? No more winter ex if it is too cold out? Ive done BFTs when it is -20 and + 40, never have I seen a soldier pass out.
> 
> As for who let him get dehydrated, well, he did. He is a grown man, and just because he is a senior officer does not mean he should have someone watching his water intake. A buddy system is great, but if he is worrying about hydration while on the march, he is already in trouble. To properly hydrate he should have been saturating his body with water for a week before hand.
> 
> There may be unseen factors here of course. Was he sick? Physically unprepared?



No I am not kidding. Usually a BFT is done either in the fall or spring to avoid this kind of thing. I remember when being in Pet they actually had emails sent out from the base as to the ratio of work vs rest to do be done in the heat during a particular day.


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## PMedMoe (16 Aug 2009)

Until we find out more about this man's condition, the reason behind the collapse is just speculation.  There may have been another medical reason for it (possible exacerbated by the heat).

Also to stipulate, he wasn't doing a BFT on his own, he was with a group, just somewhat ahead of them.

On a side note, IIRC, the only unit in Ottawa receiving LDA is 2 MP Det and anyone from CANSOFCOM (with the exception of HQ pers).


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## Petard (16 Aug 2009)

I did the BFT at Connaught this year 

The route at Connaught is clearly marked, with distance on the signs, and there are safety vehicles and safety pers.

There are parts of the route where someone might get out of sight if they were well out in front, who knows if this was a factor or not in this case, as PMedMoe pointed out, its only speculation as to why the LCol ended up where he did.

My point being I would say it is a well organized regular event at Connaught.


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Aug 2009)

Petard said:
			
		

> I did this route this year
> 
> It is a clearly marked route, with distance on signs, and there are safety vehicles and safety pers.
> 
> ...


He likely ended up where he did, off the prescribed course, because of the effects of his condition. One of which would be disorientation.


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Aug 2009)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> *I am very old now almsot hitting the 40 mark soon,*



Sorry FHG, I had to chuckle at that line


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## GAP (16 Aug 2009)

> I am very old now almsot hitting the 40 mark soon,



You do know that you grow younger past this point, don't you..... 

psst: don't tell the youngn's.....


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## Gunner98 (16 Aug 2009)

I agree LDA has nothing to do with this incident. I have removed the unquoted portion of my post so as not continue the irrelevant tangent (as to when/how a BFT should take place). The succeeding posts have appropriately addressed my concerns.


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## Rifleman62 (16 Aug 2009)

I believe PMedMoe is referring to:

WATER INTOXICATION (HYPONATREMIA)

CAUSE:  DRINKING TOO MUCH WATER TOO QUICKLY - DILUTION OF THE SODIUM IN THE BLOOD. 

SYMPTOMS

1.	Symptoms can resemble those of heat stroke or heat exhaustion except body temperature does not rise.
2.	Associated with water intake of 10-20 L over a period of a few hours.

FIRST AID

1.	When water intoxication is suspected, diagnosis must be made at a medical facility.


Successfully completed the BFT just before CRA ten minutes under the required time. Work up training spring and summer at 0500, carried a camel pac in the top of the ruck. No blisters. The 7 P's : Prior-Proper-Preparation-Prevents-Piss-Poor-Performance

Speedy recovery. Should be an investigation.


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## old medic (16 Aug 2009)

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Officer+condition+improves+after+suffering+heat+stroke/1898719/story.html

Officer's condition improves after suffering heat stroke
By Andrew Duffy, with files from Katie Daubs, 
The Ottawa Citizen August 16, 2009


> A 47-year-old lieutenant colonel, who collapsed with heat stroke during an annual battle fitness test in Ottawa, remains in hospital in stable condition.
> 
> The officer's condition has improved since he was found unconscious on the grounds of the Connaught Range and Primary Training Centre, a military spokesman said late Saturday afternoon.
> 
> ...




article continues at link.


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## Jammer (16 Aug 2009)

Good to hear.


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2009)

Glad to hear that the Sir is improving; may he experience a full recovery with no long-term effects.




> Each soldier must complete the 13-kilometre march, while carrying a 24.5-kilogram rucksack, in a time of 2 hours and 26 minutes. After a 10 minute rest, a soldier must then perform a 100-metre "fireman's carry," lifting a person of equal weight over that distance.



Don't they also do the trench dig? I thought that was also part of the testing now and was to be done after the carry?


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Don't they also do the trench dig? I thought that was also part of the testing now and was to be done after the carry?



Depends on the availibility.  I don't know if Connaught has the trenches or not.  Either that or the newspaper was quoting an outdated source.


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Depends on the availibility.  I don't know if Connaught has the trenches or not.  Either that or the newspaper was quoting an outdated source.



I do understand the availability bit.

But, I was under the impression that the Annual Army Fitness Test now consisted of:

13km load bearing march;
100m firemans carry; and
trench dig

Of which all 3 must be passed to meet the minimum standard of "pass" for the annual fitness test. 

If the test does indeed "officially" consist of all three - wouldn't those not doing the dig be seen as having "not met" the minimum standard? Perhaps the trench dig is not part of the "official test", but I thought it was. 3 ASG certainly thinks it is - given that as the A/CSM I did the carry and the dig three times in June (all on Mondays & all with a "back to work at 1300hrs" directive given at the end ... one of which saw lots of water consumed in the 30 degree temps) while accompanying the troops on 3 BFTs after we had completed the marching portion. 

Wierd.


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## McG (17 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Depends on the availibility.  I don't know if Connaught has the trenches or not.  Either that or the newspaper was quoting an outdated source.


There are trenches in Connaught, and they are used for the BFTs that are run there.


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## basrah (17 Aug 2009)

None of this explains why he was out far enough ahead of the group that people lost sight of him. I have never done, or heard of, a BFT in which anyone was allowed to go ahead on their own time.

As for the heat. Nearing 30 degrees? From the way people are talking I was expecting it to be closer to 40.


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## COBRA-6 (17 Aug 2009)

basrah said:
			
		

> None of this explains why he was out far enough ahead of the group that people lost sight of him. I have never done, or heard of, a BFT in which anyone was allowed to go ahead on their own time.



For the BFTs conducted by CFSU(O) at Connaught you are free to go at whatever pace you want. They are not like unit or sub-unit BFTs where you march as a group.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Aug 2009)

basrah said:
			
		

> None of this explains why he was out far enough ahead of the group that people lost sight of him. I have never done, or heard of, a BFT in which anyone was allowed to go ahead on their own time.



People have been doing it individually since it was instituted. I'll expand a bit on what COBRA-6 said. Many units do the BFT as a formed group in the forced march way. This is a unit thing. The Army Fitness Manual lays down the criteria for the march. No where does it say that it has to be done as part of a formed group. The timing has to be met and you can't force someone to do it faster than required.

When we used to do the 2x10, individuals would be strung out along the route. Same as a 13km BFT. We also had a 5 miler to be completed in 1hr5min(IIRC). That was a forced march, the formed body would leave the start line together and had to cross the finish line together.

The BFT is not a forced march.


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## medaid (17 Aug 2009)

I've done 2 by myself. It's done all the time.


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## vonGarvin (17 Aug 2009)

From the Army Fitness Manual:


> Meeting the Army Fitness Standard
> Fully developing all the components of fitness will have a direct impact on your performance on the AFS. Aerobic fitness, strength, power, flexibility and a healthy body weight—all together—are highly related to your ability to perform the tasks making up the AFS assessment.
> 
> The AFS is designed to ensure that you are capable of enduring the rigours of operations and, if necessary, combat. It is comprised of the following tasks.
> ...


OK, some key take-aways that I get from this.
First point, note that it says "Your perceived exertion will be recorded throughout the march to help monitor your pace and ensure safety."  The only way to do that (record someone's perceived exertion) is to have someone with you.  While I totally understand that the AFS is an individual assessment, it shouldn't be done alone.  Anyway, recceguy is correct, there is no mandate that this be done as a formed group.  But at the same time, it is implied that nobody does it alone.
Second point. Who here has followed the 12 week work up plan?  

[insert]sound of crickets chirping [/insert]

That's what I thought.


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> Who here has followed the 12 week work up plan?
> 
> [insert]sound of crickets chirping [/insert]
> 
> That's what I thought.



Actually, our section did an 8-week work up plan, with the exception of the 10 km in full gear (we did eight km instead).  Our Capt (a really excellent leader who did the BFT with every one of his troops) said if we were going to do 10 km, we might as well add three and get it done.   :nod:

Work up or not, my feet are still trashed every time(more so with the work up) but that has nothing to do with one's fitness level.  :-\


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> Second point. Who here has followed the 12 week work up plan?
> 
> [insert]sound of crickets chirping [/insert]
> 
> That's what I thought.



3 ASG Sup Coy 
Beep Beep

(Although, I personally prefer [& say to myself every time] "let's just get it overwith already" ...)
 :-\


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2009)

Moe:



> Trench (Maximal) Dig. Using a standard shovel, move .486 cubic metres of pea gravel (1 cm in diameter) from one trench box to another. *Helmet only * is worn for this task. Complete the task in less than six minutes using whatever technique is comfortable and works for you.





Hmmmmm, c'est moi ... tabernac


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2009)

Vern,

I know the trench dig is done at many units.  In Pet, we never did it due to the location of the trenches and the logistics involved in getting people there after the BFT and/or starting/finishing the BFT there (at the old curling rink).  In Kingston, if you did the BFT in the winter, the trenches (which were outside) were frozen.  We were still deemed to have passed our PT test.

Anyone ever see them fail people for taking more than a minute for the casualty carry?


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Anyone ever see them fail people for taking more than a minute for the casualty carry?



I've never seen anyone actually take more than 1 minute to complete it, but I have witnessed a "fail" on the trench dig - ergo buddy ended up out with me on a second BFT, carry & dig the next month.

(PS: I put the pic in of me doing the trench dig so that you could see my tac vest in this "helmet only" event. I feel so shafted now [not really, but]  >)


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I've never seen anyone actually take more than 1 minute to complete it, but I have witnessed a "fail" on the trench dig - ergo buddy ended up out with me on a second BFT, carry & dig the next month.



A couple of people from our unit went out and walked the marked 100 m in FFO (no casualty) at a quick pace and it took almost a minute.

But we digress.......or these statements should be in the Fitness Standards thread.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Aug 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> Second point. Who here has followed the 12 week work up plan?
> 
> [insert]sound of crickets chirping [/insert]
> 
> That's what I thought.



As with the others, perhaps not the whole thing to the letter, but a goodly portion of it none the less. The CO has the discretion to allow substitution of safe aerobic activities such as cycling, swimming, snowshoeing, rope skipping, etc. These can be identified when a member completes the LFC Physical Fitness Standard Evaluation Form. So absolute strict adherence to the Army Fitness Manual is not required. I will also admit to waiting until the test time approaches. Although I can knock off the 13km at any time, I find it's not quite the chore if I do the workup. Do I do as much PT as I should? Not likely, but I try.

As to the trench dig and ammo carry, I'll quote from the book, which I don't believe has been update since this was written.



> A r m y F i t n e s s M a n u a l 3
> >>
> Presently, the Land Force Command Physical Fitness Standard (LFCPFS)
> only includes the Weightload March and the Casualty Evacuation. The
> ...


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> As to the trench dig and ammo carry, I'll quote from the book, which I don't believe has been update since this was written.



I believe that the LFCO has been amended. Tomorrow at lunch (the only time I get on the DIN these days), I'll check it out.


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I believe that the LFCO has been amended. Tomorrow at lunch (the only time I get on the DIN these days), I'll check it out.



The one found here states:



> Presently, the Land Force Command Physical Fitness Standard (LFCPFS) includes the Weightload March, the Casualty Evacuation and the Trench Dig tasks. Changes in equipment or resources may require adjustments to the standards in future.


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## vonGarvin (17 Aug 2009)

Moe beat me to it.  The Army Fitness Manual has been updated.  
As an aside, I am actually surprised that the 12 week work-up plan has been followed.  I myself have never done it to prepare for the LFCPFS, but I have followed the manual for just "regular" PT.
Anyway...


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## Gunner98 (17 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Vern,
> 
> I know the trench dig is done at many units.  In Pet, we never did it due to the location of the trenches and the logistics involved in getting people there after the BFT and/or starting/finishing the BFT there (at the old curling rink).  In Kingston, if you did the BFT in the winter, the trenches (which were outside) were frozen.  We were still deemed to have passed our PT test.
> 
> Anyone ever see them fail people for taking more than a minute for the casualty carry?



Yes, I have seen re-dos for casualty carries after a suitable rest period.  The trench coffins are now located near Y-101 (1 RCR), which is convenient for them and the RCD.  Non-Bde/Lodger units still do not do the trench dig as a norm.  In Kingston and Valcartier they have an assigned route that ends at the trench coffins with a marked area for casualty carry.


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2009)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Yes, I have seen re-dos for casualty carries after a suitable rest period.



I have also seen "re-dos" if the person has to stop or put the casualty down.  I'm talking a actual failure of the entire fitness test for taking too long (over 1 minute but under 2), even though the task was completed.


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## PuckChaser (17 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> (Although, I personally prefer [& say to myself every time] "let's just get it overwith already" ...)



A quote I'll always remember which I've heard a lot is "Why would you practice for a kick in the junk?" If your feet are going to be trashed anyways, good upper body PT and some cardio will make the BFT a piece of cake, minus your feet.


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## Petard (17 Aug 2009)

Getting back to the gist of the thread (somewhat)

I'm not sure what else the training Cadre out in Connaught could do differently, they don't have any way to verify what the unit showing up for testing has done for prep work, nevertheless I think they administer the test as best as can be expected. 

They have all kinds of units showing up to do this test, and some are obviously better prepared than others.
Yet the staff do make sure kit is weighed, and the pers do a proper warm up before going. Before the cas-evac they give a demo of the proper lift and carry technique, just in case someone "forgot how" from their work up training. They also make sure everyone has handed in their forms that state they have no medical condition that will preclude them from attempting the test, and that their CO has approved that they take this test.

During the actual test they do have pickets at certain check points, a safety vehicle trails, and a rover does check on progress.

At the end of the march they enforce the wait time before the trench dig then the firemans lift (which I think is about to change to the cas-evac drag). All events are timed, if you bust a time limit you do fail. Over the years I have seen some fail for not getting the march done in time and the odd one for the firemans lift, but this year was the first time I seen someone fail the tench dig (but it wouldn't really be surprising if you saw the way this guy was doggin' it)

In anycase I think they're doing a good job out there at Connaught, cripes knows how this happened exactly, maybe in do course we'll find out.


Glad to hear the LCol is getting better


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## Jarnhamar (18 Aug 2009)

basrah said:
			
		

> None of this explains why he was out far enough ahead of the group that people lost sight of him. I have never done, or heard of, a BFT in which anyone was allowed to go ahead on their own time.



I've seen that a few times. Everyone stay together for the BFT. Even seen it where they tried to keep everyone in step  :


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## dapaterson (18 Aug 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I've seen that a few times. Everyone stay together for the BFT. Even seen it where they tried to keep everyone in step  :



And afterwards did they all gather together to paint some rocks  > ?


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## Bzzliteyr (18 Aug 2009)

Here's the point I bring up everytime someone tries to get us to walk hand in hand doing the 13km march:

If we can't allow people the freedom to run ahead, why is it we can let people fall behind?  We should all slow down and fail as a group, no?

(me = shit disturber)


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## vonGarvin (18 Aug 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> And afterwards did they all gather together to paint some rocks  > ?


Of course not!  What do you think we are, archaic?  

(We just did forms on the march in slow and quick time and at the halt)  ;D


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## medaid (18 Aug 2009)

Change arms, trail arms, at the halt present arms, then for the Bn Command to review the troops at the same time. Sounds about right Rambler?


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## X-mo-1979 (18 Aug 2009)

Anyone find it sorta Ironic that a LCol passes out,it makes the news.Does this mean all the people in the back of the truck during the next 13km will get an interview from the sun?

Is there a 13km where someone doesnt tear up a ankle,get dehydrated and thunder in?I can think of a few occasions of cpl's sitting down picking crushed stone off their faces.

Hope he makes a full recovery,and not too many articles are posted around his office when he returns to work.


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## dapaterson (18 Aug 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Change arms, trail arms, at the halt present arms, then for the Bn Command to review the troops at the same time. Sounds about right Rambler?



But when, oh when, do the Sox get inspected?


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## PMedMoe (18 Aug 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Anyone find it sorta Ironic that a LCol passes out,it makes the news.Does this mean all the people in the back of the truck during the next 13km will get an interview from the sun?
> 
> Is there a 13km where someone doesnt tear up a ankle,get dehydrated and thunder in?I can think of a few occasions of cpl's sitting down picking crushed stone off their faces.



I think it was more because it was in line with the heat/weather warning in the article.  Besides, this _is_ Ottawa.


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## dapaterson (18 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Besides, this _is_ Ottawa.



Where, as the then NDHQ CWO once reminded me, filling a guard of 50 with Pte/Cpls is hard.  Filling it with Majs would be easy.


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