# New uniform policy



## GPMG (10 Oct 2001)

For those who haven‘t already heard, this is official. Just got the word myself yesterday.

VICTORIA -- Canada‘s men and women in the military are being told to wear their uniforms proudly -- once they get to work.

In an unprecedented move, the Department of National Defence is ordering personnel not to wear uniforms off-base for security reasons as Canada‘s troops prepare to join the U.S.-led war against terrorism.

Members of the Canadian Forces must arrive for work in civilian clothes and change into uniform once they report for duty. The new policy is being put into effect as security is heightened at bases across the country.

"It‘s for security reasons," said Lieutenant Pierrette LeDrew, a Defence spokeswoman in Ottawa. "This policy applies to everybody."

The dress-code edict came down Monday -- the same day Defence Minister Art Eggleton announced Canada is sending 2,000 troops to support the U.S. campaign. 
Military personnel are being told to keep a low profile in public. But officials were tight-lipped yesterday about security changes in the wake of Monday‘s announcement.

"We can‘t really discuss why these measures are being taken," said Lieutenant-Commander Yves Vanier of CFB Esquimalt outside Victoria.

He would not say whether any threats against Canadian military personnel have been made.

"It‘s part of the whole picture of ensuring the safety of our personnel," he said. "All these measures are being taken as a precaution."

Military police were stationed outside CFB Esquimalt yesterday to make sure only Forces members and authorized civilians entered the base. The MPs checked trunks and back seats before allowing vehicles through the gates.

About 225 members from CFB Esquimalt are among the 2,000 troops to be deployed, Canada‘s largest military effort since the Korean War. The contribution, called Operation Apollo, includes six warships and six aircraft. The Esquimalt-based frigate HMCS Vancouver and its crew of 225 are currently conducting military exercises off the coast of California.

Telling members of the military not to wear uniforms while off duty is highly unusual, said retired colonel Michel Drapeau of Ottawa.

"I‘ve never heard of it," he said. "I‘m puzzled by it. I think [the uniform] provides some measure of psychological support for the population. I find it unusual, to say the least."

HMCS Vancouver will return to the Vancouver Island base later this month so its crew can be reunited with family before joining a U.S. aircraft-carrier group as part of Operation Apollo.

Relatives of the frigate‘s crew are anxiously waiting for their loved ones to return. The ship set sail Saturday for the military exercise and is expected back by Oct. 20.

Lorie Hall was expecting her husband Mike to be gone for a few weeks on the training exercise. Now, uncertainty and fear hang over the next few months.

Mrs. Hall said she is relieved she and the couple‘s two-year-old son Robbie will get a chance to spend some time with her husband before the frigate is deployed.


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## RCA (10 Oct 2001)

Just to clarify the policy, It states civvies are to worn only when going back and forth to ones residence. If duty dictates that you go from your place of work to downtown, a uniform will be worn.

This is the first time that this type of policy has ever been instigated, and while a lot of us might disagree, and think we maybe hiding, remebember, these are unusal times and we are (as of yesterday) at war with unknowns. 

If you think of the practical side of this policy, you will see that all the CF is doing is protecting our families from a potential terriost threat. One less thing to worry about. If look at it from that prospective, there is no reason to get bent around the axle. Besides we are soldiers and we do as we are told. For those of us in leadership positions, we carry out and enforce the policy without editorail comment, because we are professionals.


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## towhey (10 Oct 2001)

This may be the first "official" policy of its kind, but it is not the first time this has policy has been around.

In Germany, in the 80‘s, soldiers were advised to let their hair grow a little long before holidays and to avoid wearing uniforms off base.

For many years, soldiers across Canada were instructed to wear civilian clothing while travelling on duty using commercial transportation.  Of course *s* this particular policy was as much to hide the fact that a few drunken louts were military as it was to protect soldiers and their families.

If there is a real need to prevent bad guys from following soldiers home... perhaps some basic counter surveillance training is in order.  This is exactly the type of locally-run training that could be organized quickly and locally and would thoroughly excite young soldiers -- and be both useful and appropriate at the same time.


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## ender (10 Oct 2001)

I seem to remember that during the Kosovo thing, at least in Toronto, soldiers were told not to wear thier uniforms on public transportation.

I personally think it‘s more important now that ever to "show the flag".

Although it does annoy when people on the subway ask me stupid questions.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Oct 2001)

I agree with what RCA says 100%. As an aside, Britian has had this policy for quite some time to protect their pers from IRA retribution.


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## Argyll_2347 (10 Oct 2001)

My corps isn‘t even wearing our uniforms at our armoury!  I‘m going to bring up about changing into them once we get there.


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## armychick (10 Oct 2001)

i don‘t thonk it‘s fair to make everybody who wants to wear their uniforms off campus not wear them because of this war in the states that doesn‘t even involve canada I think it‘s not cool.


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## Disturbance (10 Oct 2001)

‘not cool‘

who the f,uck is this guy.

Listen new guy its not that we like wearing our uniforms ‘off campus‘ it just saves a hastle of changing once we get to our armouries. Anyways thats besides the point. I am sure most everyone is fine with it.
 And this war is not "just in the states" and this war most certainly does involve Canada - thats the whole point behind this new policy....geeze where do these guys come from.


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## Michael Dorosh (10 Oct 2001)

Good point recce, you beat me to it.  The British have had this policy for decades; when I was in England on loan to the British ARmy in 1990, we were told not to wear our uniforms off base.  While we Canadians were over there, some civvies got killed at a train station somewhere in the UK because they had short hair and "looked" like soldiers.


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## centurion (10 Oct 2001)

Disturbance!!!!
BBWWAAAAHHAHHHAAAAAAA!!!!!

What a refreshing response to our FNG. Just left the thead about "civvies not getting it", and your verboseness  brought me straight out of a funk. ROTFLMAO. Thanks.


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## Infanteer (10 Oct 2001)

I can see the logic, I don‘t need some peacenik throwing a rock through my families window because they see me leaving the house in combats and think I am a "baby-killer."


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Oct 2001)

> Originally posted by Infanteer:
> [qb]I can see the logic, I don‘t need some peacenik throwing a rock through my families window because they see me leaving the house in combats and think I am a "baby-killer."[/qb]




Why would a "peacenik" feel the need to resort to violence?

Very odd.  Do you see black helicopters, too?


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## enfield (11 Oct 2001)

While I‘ve agreed with many of your posts in the past Michael, I have to disagree with you here. I‘m sure there are many police in Seattle, Quebec, Italy, and other places that will argue that the peaceniks ain‘t so peaceful. I‘m sure we all know about the peace protesters in Vietnam who weren‘t to friendly to returning GI‘s....
I trust and respect the military, government,a nd police more than far-left reformers, hippies, peaceniks, anti-globalists, etc, for one reason - the state, it‘s agencies and agents are accountable - hippies et. al., are not.


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## Gordon Angus Mackinlay (11 Oct 2001)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

In regard to Peaceniks, my personal experience on having enlisted into the Australian Army from the British in Dec 1970, and before going off to South Viet Nam, is one of truly apalling behaviour.

Being spat on in the street whilst wearing uniform, usually women, because they knew they would‘nt get a smack.  Abusive phone calls to ones wife, poison pen letters, faeces and urine poured through the letter box, and many similar charming things.  Whils in SVN my 6 and 5 year old sons were approached at primary school by a young woman, who told them "your daddies been killed in Vietnam". Being stroppy little Jocks they gave her a smack and the eldest recorded the car number plate.  This beautiful lady now being the Speaker for the Upper House of the New South Wales Parliament.

Twenty years after my return from SVN, I lost a job as a academic at the University of Technology, when my fellows raised a round robin letter refusing to work with a baby killer.

However, would I having known this, do the same again if I had my time over again, yes of course, I was a Regular Soldier and believed then and now in what that entailed.

A number of years ago Field Marshal Carver, one of the best minds the British Army has ever produced, whilst in Australia, gave a lecture at the Australian Defence Force Academy.  I being fortunate enough to attend.  One of the things that he brought up, was the stupidty of the Labour Government in bringing in the regulation of not wearing uniform.  He saying it gave the IRA a positive advantage, also by the civil populace not seeing servicemen and women in uniform for so many years meant that they forgot the services.  The long term effect caused immense problems.  He stating that the old principle of KAPE should always occur, KEEP the ARMY in the PUBLIC EYE.

My personal opinion is that it is wrong, if terorist wanted to attack service personnel in their home environment, all they have to do is follow people from a military establishment - being in uniform does not matter to them.  The important thing to do is to maintain the image of the armed forces for the civil populace.

For what it is worth,

Yours,
Jock in Sydney


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## Infanteer (11 Oct 2001)

> Why would a "peacenik" feel the need to resort to violence?



These peace rallies are composed of all sorts of groups with different interests (Anarchists, Communists, and other sorts of radical and reactionary groups), and sometimes peace isn‘t one of them.  Considering that anti-war groups in the past have thrown crap all over returning war veterans, stormed buildings, been involved in melees with the authorities, and included "peaceful" groups such as the Black Panthers, I would say that these groups are not as harmless as you make them out to be, and anyone who thinks so is being naive.



> Very odd. Do you see black helicopters, too?



Haha!  That one was funny.  You sound personally offended by this on Mr. Dorash.


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## fortuncookie5084 (11 Oct 2001)

Gordon, unfortunately Canada does not want its soldiers in the public eye.  After all, we‘re peacekeepers...we don‘t carry guns do we?  Ha!  I‘ve always advocated an American-style PR campaign for our Forces.  It sure is tackier than, as I posted about six months ago, a company of redcoats slow marching smartly to the tune of Scipio Africanus, but IT WORKS!!!  We need to bring a modern pride into the Candian public‘s eyes.


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## Infanteer (12 Oct 2001)

Ha, I hearby retract my earlier statement.  I can‘t believe this fact did not dawn on me earlier.  The sheer stupidity of this policy for the Militia is apparent now.  Tonight I walk out of my house in civvies, playing low key.  Little do I realize that I am carrying all my military kit which makes me just as obvious as if I were wearing my uniform.  So I take government perscribed precautions and I get a peacenik throwing a rock through my window anyways....


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## ender (12 Oct 2001)

exactly.

It‘s a little hard to pretend your a civvie when you are carrying  webbing and rucksack.  You just look like a numptie in civvies and your military kit.

According to the Access to Information Act, any civvie can make a request and get the entire chain of command.  Right to to Spr. Bloggins, 1 Section 2 Troop.  And once you have a name, addresses are easy.  So the government is giving this information away anyways.


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## Argyll_2347 (12 Oct 2001)

The order cancelled?  That‘s what I heard from my Dad when he watched the morning news in Saskatoon.  

I called my RSM and he told me that we are now can wear uniforms in public.


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## King (12 Oct 2001)

I think Ottawa realized they screwed up and that it was a stupud order. But I don‘t think that alone did it. I think they found out it was unpopular with CF members and with the people who have enough sense to pay attention to the military. It was just a ploy to make people think they were doing something about security since they want to avoid at all costs putting soldiers in airports or along the border.  

It reflects the beast that is Chretien. Public opinion runs this government. They haven‘t had to lead for 8 years, they avoided making decisions as much as possible and that worked because it fit the national temperment for years. But now things are different.


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## Argyll_2347 (13 Oct 2001)

Don‘t they realize that you are in the ARMY?  Probably the "gangs" that they are probably worried about think that every soldier could be like Rambo.  I would never attack a soldier even if I was bigger than them (I‘m not though).  I think that the air force should worry.  The Navy not so much because their weight could be more than air force‘s.

I am proud to wear my uniform and combats in public! I am proud to belong to the Army Cadets!


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