# Toronto: Love it or hate it?



## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

As I have been going through the recruiting process at CFRC Toronto I noticed many of the people from the GTA who don't live in Toronto have a disdain for the city; too crowded, TTC is awful, people are not helpful and rude people. I know that this is a common complaint from people outside the city and have encountered many tourists, either through work or in bars, complain this city isn't what they thought it would be. 

For myself, I was born and raised here and love it to death. I have never encountered the problems people speak of nor feel we actually behave this way. I'm not quite sure what people are experiencing that would make them feel this way as I feel the city is no different than any other; you'll meet people of all personalities like in any city. 

So I wanted to know what you out there think of Toronto? I know many people who post on this forum are from all over the country and wondered what your impressions of this city are


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## dapaterson (29 May 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-LzM9fMS-0


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## The Bread Guy (29 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> .... too crowded, TTC is awful, people are not helpful and rude people ....


I've heard exactly these complaints from people living _in_ Toronto.

Too crowded?  I'm used to smaller-city living, so I find it a bit much after more than 3-4 days.

TTC awful?  I've used mass transit in New York, Rome and Washington, D.C., and I've always been OK with TO mass transit (with cars built in my home town).

People not helpful/rude?  My experience:  Not really any more or any less than elsewhere.

Love about Toronto?  Lots of things to see/do (I'm a foodie, so it's a pretty target-rich environment for me), and safer than a lot of big cities I've been to.

Hate about Toronto?  Enough people there think they're the centre of the universe (and don't understand the reality of how other parts of Ontario live) to paint the whole crew.  Example:  listen to a CBC "Ontario" newscast on the weekend, and how many stories are from _outside_ Toronto?


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## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I've heard exactly these complaints from people living _in_ Toronto.
> 
> Too crowded?  I'm used to smaller-city living, so I find it a bit much after more than 3-4 days.
> 
> ...



There's a disconnect between big and small city dwellers all over the world. I think with that you get people from small towns who just aren't used to the amount of people, the traffic, the noise and the busy nature of people. I see it more as intimidation than anything else. 

My issue with people from out of town is the inability to keep up with me; I walk really fast and they don't understand it. Other than that people seem to go with the flow here


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## The Bread Guy (29 May 2015)

BTW, forgot to mention:  you're brave asking, "hey, what's so bad about Toronto, anyway?"  ;D


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## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> BTW, forgot to mention:  you're brave asking, "hey, what's so bad about Toronto, anyway?"  ;D



I do think everything that's great about Canada can be seen here in Toronto; low crime rate, people from all backgrounds more or less work well and play well together, diverse fun from the waterfront to museums, shopping malls and cool neighborhoods. What I love most is the personalities of the people I meet and work with on a daily basis, most of whom aren't from Toronto, that come from rural areas that bring the best of those places to the table and make worklife and nightlife all the better. And the hottest women are here too  :nod:


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## mariomike (29 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> As I have been going through the recruiting process at CFRC Toronto I noticed many of the people from the GTA who don't live in Toronto have a disdain for the city;



There is no shortage of out-of-town applicants to join the city's Emergency Services. There used to be a Residency requirement.

To me, it's a city of neighborhoods. There are 140 neighbourhoods officially recognized by the City of Toronto, and upwards of 240 unofficial neighbourhoods.

I like mine. It's bounded by the Humber River, Bloor Street West (including Bloor West Village), High Park and Grenadier Pond, and Lake Ontario. We had two beautiful movie theatres that we liked to go, but they are both gone now. There were no bars in the area until 2000, and no wine with your dinner. No LCBO or Brewers Retail stores either. If you wanted a drink, you had to walk to the Legion. It's gone now too. With all the construction going on, I guess you could say I am a bit of a NIMBY.

My mother's side of the family, and my wife's side, are mostly in the Wilson Heights area.

I like to go downtown on the subway during the week, walk through the PATH if it's cold out, and look down on it from the CN Tower. But, it's difficult to keep up with.  TO has more high-rise projects under construction than any other North American city. One third of Canada's population live within a 100-mile radius of Toronto.



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> And the hottest women are here too  :nod:



 :nod:


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## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> There is no shortage of out-of-town applicants to join the city's Emergency Services. There used to be a Residency requirement.
> 
> To me, it's a city of neighborhoods. There are 140 neighbourhoods officially recognized by the City of Toronto, and upwards of 240 unofficial neighbourhoods.
> 
> ...



I've been exploring a lot of Toronto lately and have fallen in love with West Queen West which is cliche in Toronto but one of the most diverse and interesting areas, both people and places alike. I can people watch from Yonge and Dundas Square all day and all night.


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## mariomike (29 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I've been exploring a lot of Toronto lately and have fallen in love with West Queen West which is cliche in Toronto but one of the most diverse and interesting areas, both people and places alike. I can people watch from Yonge and Dundas Square all day and all night.



I was stationed at Richmond and Strachan back in the 1970's. It was heavy-industry factories back then. Deinstitutionalization wrecked havoc on us and the area. 
I guess the Hipsters re-invigorated it, but I was long gone by then.
Never cared much for the Yonge and Dundas crowd, back then or now.


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## FJAG (29 May 2015)

Nothing new here.

I grew up in Toronto in the late 50's and all of the 60's before joining the army and going to BC and then Manitoba. People generally hated us folks from "Tarana". It had nothing to do with the size of the city or its amenities but the fact that Torontonians in general considered (and I believe still do consider) themselves the centre of the universe. The rule of thumb for us then was that there was no country north of the 401, east of Scarborough or west of Etobicoke. 

In those days the country's entire entertainment/news industry was vested with the CBC, the Globe and later CTV all of which were very Toronto-centric (to almost the exclusion of everyone else with the possible exception of Ottawa). This offended the rest of the nation

Non-Torontonians basically considered us Torontonians as a**holes. At the time I was offended by this but with time have come to accept that the non-Torontonians were probably right. This last year, when I saw Toronto almost single-handedly re-elect the provincial Liberals I came to the conclusion that the rest of Canada is absolutely right.   :facepalm:

Don't fight it; continue to revel in the superiority of your city even if you can't afford a house there. You'll never be able to change such a deep-rooted prejudice. Besides, you're from Toronto; why would you even care what others might think.  ;D

 :cheers:


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## dimsum (29 May 2015)

I'm from TO but haven't lived there since I went to uni.  Aside from seeing family and the Chinese food that you really can't get outside of China (or, in some cases, better than in China itself), I don't really miss it.  Sure, it has everything and a massive population but it gets a bit much for me after a week or two.

The big thing after living abroad for a few years is that it seems like every other big city to me.  When I was in Sydney, once you got away from the Harbour Bridge and Opera House, it could have been Toronto.  

I'll hang out in Victoria, thanks.

PS:  As for "hottest women", I thought that too until I was posted to Montreal, Quebec City and even Winnipeg.  Yep, even under-rated Winnipeg - must be the random Ukrainian and Scandinavian mix out there.


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## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

FJAG said:
			
		

> Nothing new here.
> 
> I grew up in Toronto in the late 50's and all of the 60's before joining the army and going to BC and then Manitoba. People generally hated us folks from "Tarana". It had nothing to do with the size of the city or its amenities but the fact that Torontonians in general considered (and I believe still do consider) themselves the centre of the universe. The rule of thumb for us then was that there was no country north of the 401, east of Scarborough or west of Etobicoke.
> 
> ...



I think when I really became a Torontonian was in Grade 4 when my teacher, who was from Alberta, pronounced it "TOE RON TOW" and I quickly corrected her with "TER RON OH". She was shocked I said this to her and to this day never lets me forget it


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## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I was stationed at Richmond and Strachan back in the 1970's. It was heavy-industry factories back then. Deinstitutionalization wrecked havoc on us and the area.
> I guess the Hipsters re-invigorated it, but I was long gone by then.
> Never cared much for the Yonge and Dundas crowd, back then or now.



I was born and raised in Jane and Finch which has gotten a bad reputation since... forever but I wouldn't have changed my childhood for a second. I love the neighborhood now as much as then


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## Underway (29 May 2015)

Not from TO ( from a very small town) but love the city.  The biggest stereotypes of TO come from not actually knowing the people and going by media exposure.

I always tell people Torontonians are just as friendly as everywhere else, they just don't care about you.  Exactly like EVERY OTHER CITY IN CANADA.  Strike up a conversation with a random Torontonian and things are great.  I've lived all over, Halifax, Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec City, Hamilton, Guelph, Winnipeg and every city folk is the same when you are friendly to them.  Actually the most unfriendly city was Halifax in my opinion.


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## mariomike (29 May 2015)

FJAG said:
			
		

> This last year, when I saw Toronto almost single-handedly re-elect the provincial Liberals I came to the conclusion that the rest of Canada is absolutely right.
> Don't fight it; continue to revel in the superiority of your city even if you can't afford a house there.



I've never followed provincial or federal party politics much. BTW, my house was bought and paid for a long time ago, thanks. 



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I was born and raised in Jane and Finch which has gotten a bad reputation since... forever but I wouldn't have changed my childhood for a second. I love the neighborhood now as much as then



Good for you. Not without its problems, but a lot of good people live up there.



			
				Underway said:
			
		

> Not from TO ( from a very small town) but love the city.  The biggest stereotypes of TO come from not actually knowing the people and going by media exposure.
> 
> I always tell people Torontonians are just as friendly as everywhere else, they just don't care about you.  Exactly like EVERY OTHER CITY IN CANADA.  Strike up a conversation with a random Torontonian and things are great.  I've lived all over, Halifax, Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec City, Hamilton, Guelph, Winnipeg and every city folk is the same when you are friendly to them.  Actually the most unfriendly city was Halifax in my opinion.



Nice to hear that.


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## cupper (29 May 2015)

This far in and no one has pointed out that Toronto lacks an NHL team.  >


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## Humphrey Bogart (29 May 2015)

I personally hate Toronto, come to think of it, I hate most big cities.  People always talk about how there is so much to do...... I always ask, "Like what exactly?"

Everything is super expensive and over-priced.  You can't actually afford to own anything in the city i.e. house, car, boat, motorcycle, truck, etc... and if you want to?  Well you better be a freaking multi-millionaire!

I often drive through downtown Toronto I always marvel at how well everyone dresses, like everyone is always wearing designer this/designer that and then I realize it's because they have nothing else to spend their money on because they either can't afford it due to the horrendous cost of living in the "Big City" or they have no space for it, probably partially a result of not being able to afford it.  

Nope I'd much rather live in a place like Deep River, Ontario, where I can have a nice big house for under $200,000 and still be able to afford my truck, boat, skidoo, gigantic gun collection, fishing apparel, etc... oh and eventually invest in a camp somewhere.  

Does Toronto suck?  Damn right it does.

As for big cities having culture?  What culture?  To me, the bigger the city, the more it lacks "culture".  Far more culture in a place like Corner Brook, Newfoundland or even a place like Yellowknife than there is in Toronto.


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## FortYorkRifleman (29 May 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I personally hate Toronto, come to think of it, I hate most big cities.  People always talk about how there is so much to do...... I always ask, "Like what exactly?"
> 
> Everything is super expensive and over-priced.  You can't actually afford to own anything in the city i.e. house, car, boat, motorcycle, truck, etc... and if you want to?  Well you better be a freaking multi-millionaire!
> 
> ...



I lament the fact that Toronto doesn't have a base like Petawawa or Edmonton but that's for another discussion...

Anyway, I think when people mention culture they mean the multi-culturalism moreso than the AGO, ROM, etc. I love the idea of going into a Blues bar like The Rex on Queen West and seeing all ages, all races enjoying themselves or seeing a Indian restaurant with white, black, brown patrons. That, to me, along with events like TIFF, Pride and Carribana signify culture more than anything else. Toronto is a melting pot and it shows in everything.

I also think it takes a certain kind of person to commit to living in any big city. Many people who live in Toronto are not even from there; most I work with are from small towns and smaller cities out West who came for the jobs and excitement of "Big city living". I couldn't live in Deep River or Burlington for that matter because I'd miss the sounds and the energy in the city. Oh, and I hate the woods but don't tell my Interviewing Officer that


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## Humphrey Bogart (29 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I lament the fact that Toronto doesn't have a base like Petawawa or Edmonton but that's for another discussion...
> 
> Anyway, I think when people mention culture they mean the multi-culturalism moreso than the AGO, ROM, etc. I love the idea of going into a Blues bar like The Rex on Queen West and seeing all ages, all races enjoying themselves or seeing a Indian restaurant with white, black, brown patrons. That, to me, along with events like TIFF, Pride and Carribana signify culture more than anything else. Toronto is a melting pot and it shows in everything.



Oh I understand what they mean when they say culture.  To me though, the "cultures" found in big cities are really just money making ventures that are there for entertainment.  It's no different than going to a place like Jamaica for example, staying on a secure white person resort, than saying you've experienced Jamaican culture, you haven't really, you've just been fooled by a cleverly designed money-making scheme.  



> I also think it takes a certain kind of person to commit to living in any big city. Many people who live in Toronto are not even from there; most I work with are from small towns and smaller cities out West who came for the jobs and excitement of "Big city living". I couldn't live in Deep River or Burlington for that matter because I'd miss the sounds and the energy in the city. Oh, and I hate the woods but don't tell my Interviewing Officer that



I think most people move to the city and end up getting stuck because they get sucked into the vortex.  They go there looking for work, end up working some random job that can barely pay their bills (due to the aforementioned cost of living) so they end up having to settle.


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## mariomike (29 May 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I think most people move to the city and end up getting stuck because they get sucked into the vortex.  They go there looking for work, end up working some random job that can barely pay their bills (due to the aforementioned cost of living) so they end up having to settle.



They must be the ones from out of town lined up to get on the Emergency Services.



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I also think it takes a certain kind of person to commit to living in any big city.



I had enough fun and games working for Metro. I prefer to relax in my neighborhood and enjoy our garden.

This is typical of our area. It's not my backyard, but it's a only a short walk. People sometimes say they "know" Toronto. But, how many really do?


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## FortYorkRifleman (30 May 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Oh I understand what they mean when they say culture.  To me though, the "cultures" found in big cities are really just money making ventures that are there for entertainment.  It's no different than going to a place like Jamaica for example, staying on a secure white person resort, than saying you've experienced Jamaican culture, you haven't really, you've just been fooled by a cleverly designed money-making scheme.
> 
> I think most people move to the city and end up getting stuck because they get sucked into the vortex.  They go there looking for work, end up working some random job that can barely pay their bills (due to the aforementioned cost of living) so they end up having to settle.



I know plenty of people who are in similar circumstances you described, RoyalDrew. I also suspect many would die before moving back home due to embarrassment.


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## mariomike (30 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I lament the fact that Toronto doesn't have a base like Petawawa or Edmonton but that's for another discussion...



Others have pointed out the high property values in TO. How much would a base the size of either of those cost in Toronto? Where would they find the land?

As far as I am concerned, I can live anywhere. I've been retired for six years, so the job is not an issue. My wife likes to travel, but this is where she prefers to call home. So, that's fine with me.


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## FortYorkRifleman (30 May 2015)

True I hadn't thought of that


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 May 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Others have pointed out the high property values in TO. How much would a base the size of either of those cost in Toronto? Where would they find the land?
> 
> As far as I am concerned, I can live anywhere. I've been retired for six years, so the job is not an issue. My wife likes to travel, but this is where she prefers to call home. So, that's fine with me.



Don't get me wrong, some people like the "Big City" life but having lived just outside Montreal for a year and spending lots of time in and around Toronto and Ottawa, I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be.  Personally, Ottawa is the limit for me as you can still live outside the city with a big plot of land and be in relative close proximity.  Toronto is just too big and quality of life just isn't there.  If you want to make serious money there, you need to work some sort of Bay Street job where the stress levels and grind pretty much eliminate any positives you would get from living there.


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## Brasidas (30 May 2015)

I used to wake up in the afternoon, go down to a shop in Spadina, get a couple awesome banh mi for $3, kick back with a good book and free tea, then wander to Second City for some free good improv shows.

I had fun in Toronto, whether I was a slacker or working a couple jobs. Depending on what I was doing for work, I suspect that with a wife and kids we'd end up somewhere on the periphery like Mississauga and that working in or around Toronto would just translate into an annoying commute.


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## mariomike (30 May 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> If you want to make serious money there, you need to work some sort of Bay Street job where the stress levels and grind pretty much eliminate any positives you would get from living there.



I mentioned that many applicants for our Emergency Services are from out of town ( since the Residency Requirement was lifted ). I saw that with my own eyes. 

I also came across this: "I have been fortunate that I have been able to orientate several of our recruit classes and it was refreshing to see such a young class this time. The class was mainly Fire College Graduates and it also had members with past fire service experience. I had the chance to speak to some and I found it interesting that those fire fighters with many years experience with a full-time fire department elsewhere were willing to leave to pursue there “dreams” as they put it and work for Toronto Fire. It made me feel a little bit special that I have been a part of an organization that others envy and want to be a part of as well."
http://www.torontofirefighters.org/OSS/images/firewatch/spring2009.pdf
page 8

Some residential neighborhoods are not as hectic as outsiders may think. Ours was an independent village "the final frontier before Etobicoke" until it was annexed in 1967 by the City of Toronto. We can easily walk to the Bloor West Village ( if you like Eastern European food and culture, it's the place to go ), the subway ( two stops to the new Union Station - Pearson Airport Express ), or the park. 
We love our car for pleasure drives and visiting, but you don't really need to own one. There are ZIP-car type services all over town now, taxis, and we recently began using Uber.
This is what I walk through all the way from home to Lake Ontario:
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/NatureAllWildlifeExceptAnimalsAndCherryBlossoms
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/AnimalsOutsideTheZooAndTheDogPark
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/CherryBlossoms

As a member of the Regular Force, I suppose it is unlikely you will be posted here anyway. A Base in Toronto would be too costly. 
Yet, how many times have we read of GTA applicants who are hesitant to join the Regular Force, because they are concerned they may be posted outside the area? 
Like I said, that's about one-third of the national population.


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## opcougar (30 May 2015)

OP....I'll take T-Dot any day over the "boonies" or other smaller towns (pop less than 500k) calling themselves 'cities', where people are afraid of people that don't look like them, and tend to have xenophobic tendencies which they exhibit subliminally or blatantly. You are not going to see a bunch of F-whatever or Dodge rams running around in neighbourhoods in TO, loud duck nasty jacket wearing types hanging at Timmies, or neighbours with swamp tires parking on your lawn, leaving you having to park on the street.

I am a city boy true and true, and the bigger the better for me. I have lived in cities of 5 million up to 9 million, and the boonies life is one that I can't comprehend. To hear some people refer to Toronto as "big" sometimes, is laughable if you've ever had a chance to go to Europe or elsewhere on the planet.

I am sure boonies folk feel the same way I do in an opposite fashion.


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## FortYorkRifleman (30 May 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I mentioned that many applicants for our Emergency Services are from out of town ( since the Residency Requirement was lifted ). I saw that with my own eyes.
> 
> I also came across this: "I have been fortunate that I have been able to orientate several of our recruit classes and it was refreshing to see such a young class this time. The class was mainly Fire College Graduates and it also had members with past fire service experience. I had the chance to speak to some and I found it interesting that those fire fighters with many years experience with a full-time fire department elsewhere were willing to leave to pursue there “dreams” as they put it and work for Toronto Fire. It made me feel a little bit special that I have been a part of an organization that others envy and want to be a part of as well."
> http://www.torontofirefighters.org/OSS/images/firewatch/spring2009.pdf
> ...



I do think the CAF is missing out on a "brain gain" by not having a large base near Toronto as I think more and more city dwellers would at least have more of an interest than they do now; when ville de Quebec was here in the summer of 2012 I overheard several people saying they never knew Canada had a Navy.


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## mariomike (30 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> ; when ville de Quebec was here in the summer of 2012 I overheard several people saying they never knew Canada had a Navy.



Maybe they thought this was their Navy?  :dunno:


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## FortYorkRifleman (30 May 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Maybe they thought this was their Navy?  :dunno:



One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well

I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.


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## mariomike (30 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well
> 
> I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.



Lots of armouries in the GTA for those who prefer to stay in the area.



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.



Lived my life in TO, but I only really got to know it from 1972-2009. Saw a lot of changes in those years. 



			
				opcougar said:
			
		

> To hear some people refer to Toronto as "big" sometimes, is laughable if you've ever had a chance to go to Europe or elsewhere on the planet.



It's pretty big for this corner of the world. In North America, only NYC, LA and Mexico City are bigger.


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 May 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> OP....I'll take T-Dot any day over the "boonies" or other smaller towns (pop less than 500k) calling themselves 'cities', where people are afraid of people that don't look like them, and tend to have xenophobic tendencies which they exhibit subliminally or blatantly. You are not going to see a bunch of F-whatever or Dodge rams running around in neighbourhoods in TO, loud duck nasty jacket wearing types hanging at Timmies, or neighbours with swamp tires parking on your lawn, leaving you having to park on the street.
> 
> I am a city boy true and true, and the bigger the better for me. I have lived in cities of 5 million up to 9 million, and the boonies life is one that I can't comprehend. To hear some people refer to Toronto as "big" sometimes, is laughable if you've ever had a chance to go to Europe or elsewhere on the planet.
> 
> I am sure boonies folk feel the same way I do in an opposite fashion.



The funny thing is, those "xenophobic" country folk that you bemoan usually make better soldiers of the combat variety.  Also, you seem to imply that others aren't as well travelled as you are.  I can assure you that the majority of the CAF has travelled far more than the average Canadian.



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I do think the CAF is missing out on a "brain gain" by not having a large base near Toronto as I think more and more city dwellers would at least have more of an interest than they do now; when ville de Quebec was here in the summer of 2012 I overheard several people saying they never knew Canada had a Navy.



I will agree that having an "urban bastion" would probably help attract more "skilled labour" to the military but the way things are going, a lot of that stuff is getting increasingly contracted out to others.  Fact is, soldiers need to be stationed close to suitable terrain to train in.  The city is unfortunately nowhere near that aforementioned terrain.


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## dimsum (30 May 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I will agree that having an "urban bastion" would probably help attract more "skilled labour" to the military but the way things are going, a lot of that stuff is getting increasingly contracted out to others.  Fact is, soldiers need to be stationed close to suitable terrain to train in.  The city is unfortunately nowhere near that aforementioned terrain.



<tangent>

I understand the need to be within a decent distance to ranges, etc. but the Australian Army has its main bases in downtown Brisbane, Darwin and Townsville with a brigade each, and other major units in Sydney and Perth.  All of those have over 100K people and are population centres in their areas of Australia.  When it needs to do big exercises in Shoalwater Bay or other ranges, they convoy or otherwise move their troops as needed.  

However, even with its bases in population centres, I've noticed that the Australian Army has trouble keeping its soldiers in uniform.  So, I'm not sure whether just proximity to cities is a cure-all for retention. 

</tangent>


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## FortYorkRifleman (30 May 2015)

I think if you want to serve, you'll do it no matter what. I know that's the case with myself and others I've met through CFRC Toronto.


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 May 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> <tangent>
> 
> I understand the need to be within a decent distance to ranges, etc. but the Australian Army has its main bases in downtown Brisbane, Darwin and Townsville with a brigade each, and other major units in Sydney and Perth.  All of those have over 100K people and are population centres in their areas of Australia.  When it needs to do big exercises in Shoalwater Bay or other ranges, they convoy or otherwise move their troops as needed.
> 
> ...



It's not, CFB Edmonton being a prime example.  This is especially true when the economy is goo because if it is good most soldiers will eventually look elsewhere for work.


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## opcougar (30 May 2015)

Country bumpkins are reading this now, and saying yeah right whatever.



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well
> 
> I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.





> The funny thing is, those "xenophobic" country folk that you bemoan usually make better soldiers of the combat variety.  Also, you seem to imply that others aren't as well travelled as you are.  I can assure you that the majority of the CAF has travelled far more than the average Canadian.



of the combat variety may be, but these days drones can be controlled from the comfort of a room, but that requires more technical skills.

Anyway, there is traveling to educate yourself with culture, and there is traveling to lounge by the beach or be confined to a certain area during war. Not everyone gets an OUTCAN posting in their service time.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (30 May 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> Country bumpkins are reading this now, and saying yeah right whatever.
> 
> Something that isn't spoken about is the wanting to leave cities like Toronto because of the changing demographic. Some people just don't want to live/work/play with people that don't look like them. Its a shame but who cares, really
> 
> ...


----------



## mariomike (30 May 2015)

> I personally hate Toronto, come to think of it, I hate most big cities.





> Country bumpkins are reading this now, and saying yeah right whatever.



Figured from the title that this would be soon heading in the same direction >

Urban vs Rural recruits. Do similar patterns exist in Canada? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/36214.0;nowap

Four more pages of  :duel:

To add, the Union - Pearson Express opens this week, and I am very much looking forward to using it. I can get on at Bloor and be at Pearson in 17 minutes, or Union in 8 minutes.


----------



## George Wallace (31 May 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> It's not, CFB Edmonton being a prime example.  This is especially true when the economy is good because if it is good most soldiers will eventually look elsewhere for work.



Sometimes, larger urban centers offer TOO MANY distractions and temptations for young soldiers.  So many are tempted by "Greener pastures on the other side of the fence"; which often don't turn out to be as green as they first appeared.


----------



## mariomike (31 May 2015)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sometimes, larger urban centers offer TOO MANY distractions and temptations for young soldiers.



Reminds me of the old World War One song, "How Ya Gonna Keep 'em Down on the Farm (After They've Seen Paree)?"

"The lyrics highlight concern that soldiers from rural environments would not want to return to farm life after experiencing the European city life and culture of Paris during World War I."



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> So many are tempted by "Greener pastures on the other side of the fence"; which often don't turn out to be as green as they first appeared.



"Goin' Down the Road" being a classic Canadian example of that: 
"The film builds on such works as The Grapes of Wrath but it puts the story into the present, and the story itself is not dated – the flight from rural to urban areas continues throughout the world today."


----------



## opcougar (31 May 2015)

The people with the main problem, are those that think an area / country should continue to look the same. These isn't our grandparents period, times are changing and people are going to have to learn to suck it up. It must be fun (NOT) living in a small minded community


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (31 May 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> The people with the main problem, are those that think an area / country should continue to look the same. These isn't our grandparents period, times are changing and people are going to have to learn to suck it up. It must be fun (NOT) living in a small minded community



I don't think anyone said an area should remain the same.  I've stated why I don't like Toronto and wouldn't live there.  I don't hate the people that live in the city, just don't want the lifestyle.


----------



## Brasidas (31 May 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Something that isn't spoken about is the wanting to leave cities like Toronto because of the changing demographic. Some people just don't want to live/work/play with people that don't look like them. Its a shame but who cares, really



Who are these people and what are you suggesting they're doing instead? I doubt that they're moving to Brampton, or if they are, they're pretty confused. 



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well
> 
> I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.



I really wish folks'd stop trying to metric who joins the CF.  There's nothing wrong with, for example, an overrepresentation of baymen. A magical perfect PC mix representing some balance of what is Canada isn't superior to having a merit-based selection processing of those motivated to apply.


----------



## mariomike (31 May 2015)

Brasidas said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with, for example, an overrepresentation of baymen.



"Ask a townie for a smoke, 
He will say his pipe is broke; 
Ask a bayman for a chew, 
He will bite it off for you."


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (31 May 2015)

Brasidas said:
			
		

> Who are these people and what are you suggesting they're doing instead? I doubt that they're moving to Brampton, or if they are, they're pretty confused.
> 
> I'm not suggesting anything. I can tell you stories of people who dislike what Toronto "has become" but what for? It'll lead to a debate I don't want
> 
> ...


----------



## Danny78 (31 May 2015)

I grew up in New Brunswick and learned the French hated the English and vice versa. Amongst the anglophones, us Saint Johners hated Fredericton and Moncton. Since moving to Toronto I've also learned I'm stuck up and self centered based on my postal code. Despite the fact most Torontonians like myself never grew up here. 

My conclusion. Canadians like to complain. We will bitch about anything. Don't take it personally.


----------



## mariomike (1 Jun 2015)

Danny78 said:
			
		

> Despite the fact most Torontonians like myself never grew up here.



Something I heard years ago was that there are three Toronto's. 
First, the city of the man or woman who was born here, who takes it for granted. 
Second, there is the Toronto of the commuter. 
Third, there is the Toronto of the person who was born somewhere else and came in quest of something. 
They say the new comers are the ones who give the city it's passion, because they are depending a good deal on luck.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (1 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Something I heard years ago was that there are three Toronto's.
> First, the city of the man or woman who was born here, who takes it for granted.
> Second, there is the Toronto of the commuter.
> Third, there is the Toronto of the person who was born somewhere else and came in quest of something.
> They say the new comers are the ones who give the city it's passion, because they are depending a good deal on luck.



I've seen people come and go every year and its cycle where the beneficiaries are property owners, bars and married men and/or older single men who had a sugar baby for a year or so. I used to work for a high end retail company and every six months or so a new sales girl or greeter from a small town would be hired on just on looks and age alone. Many are Facebook friends who now live back at home their parents after their modeling/film/fashion career went nowhere. Truth be told Toronto is like other cities


----------



## mariomike (1 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I've seen people come and go every year and its cycle where the beneficiaries are property owners, bars and married men and/or older single men who had a sugar baby for a year or so. I used to work for a high end retail company and every six months or so a new sales girl or greeter from a small town would be hired on just on looks and age alone. Many are Facebook friends who now live back at home their parents after their modeling/film/fashion career went nowhere. Truth be told Toronto is like other cities



This town will suck you in, beat you down, grind you up, and spit you out.  

There's a broken heart  for every bright light on Yonge St.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (1 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> This town will suck you in, beat you down, grind you up, and spit you out.



But we do it with such class...


----------



## The Bread Guy (1 Jun 2015)

Danny78 said:
			
		

> My conclusion. Canadians like to complain. We will bitch about anything. Don't take it personally.


In other words, you'll find "Springfield vs. Shelbyville" everywhere, right?  ;D


----------



## mariomike (1 Jun 2015)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> In other words, you'll find "Springfield vs. Shelbyville" everywhere, right?  ;D



I like when Tony Bennet sings, "Capital City":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Ulgtvx-NA

You'll never want to roam from
 Capitol City, my home sweet -- Yeah!
 Capitol City, that happy tall city
 It's Capitol City, my home sweet swingin' home!


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (1 Jun 2015)

It does upset me when people from out of town say things about Toronto's crime rate, how dirty the city is, and the constant construction. While I understand the construction complaint, Toronto's crime rate is so low in comparison to American cities of comparable size/status that I think Canadian's are spoiled; we have no idea how good we have it here. There is no neighborhood in this town I'd be afraid to walk through after dark, the police here are ever present either on bikes, patrol cars or on foot at major intersections like Yonge and Dundas. As far as the dirtiness of Toronto I don't see it; the most prevalent of "trash" I see are cigarette butts which have increased since the patio ban at the beginning of the year. 

One other issue is homelessness which, while one is too many, isn't as bad as other cities. Some of the panhandlers can be aggressive but no different than any other big city.


----------



## mariomike (1 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Toronto's crime rate is so low in comparison to American cities < snip >



For reference, crime rates in Canadian cities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada#Violent_crime_severity_index_by_CMA


----------



## opcougar (9 Jun 2015)

Well...it shouldn't because there is a whole lot of crap that happens in the boonies, that I wouldn't want to be part of. Most of the time, boonies folks are bored out of their mind, and a trip to Costco / meet up a Timmies parking lot / driving ATVs up and down is the highlight of their day / week.

Folks from the boonies are also more likely to believe everything they see/hear on the news.



			
				FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> *It does upset me when people from out of town say things about Toronto's crime rate, how dirty the city is, and the constant construction.* While I understand the construction complaint, Toronto's crime rate is so low in comparison to American cities of comparable size/status that I think Canadian's are spoiled; we have no idea how good we have it here. There is no neighborhood in this town I'd be afraid to walk through after dark, the police here are ever present either on bikes, patrol cars or on foot at major intersections like Yonge and Dundas. As far as the dirtiness of Toronto I don't see it; the most prevalent of "trash" I see are cigarette butts which have increased since the patio ban at the beginning of the year.
> 
> One other issue is homelessness which, while one is too many, isn't as bad as other cities. Some of the panhandlers can be aggressive but no different than any other big city.


----------



## cupper (9 Jun 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> Folks from the boonies are also more likely to believe everything they see/hear on the news.



It's true 'cause I just read it on the internet. :nod:


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (9 Jun 2015)

I always had the best luck with small town girls, for some reason. I met a girl at Indigo bookstore in the Eaton Centre where she and I were both looking in the International Poli Sci section and after talking for about twenty minutes had an impromptu date at Jack Astor's then a movie. I notice women born and raised or at least in Toronto for a couple of years are standoffish with guys but small town gals are just like "let's see where this goes".


----------



## dimsum (9 Jun 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> Well...it shouldn't because there is a whole lot of crap that happens in the boonies, that I wouldn't want to be part of. Most of the time, boonies folks are bored out of their mind, and a trip to Costco / meet up a Timmies parking lot / driving ATVs up and down is the highlight of their day / week.
> 
> Folks from the boonies are also more likely to believe everything they see/hear on the news.



That depends on the "boonies".  Lots of people in big cities can be bored out of their mind too, going to the same restaurants/bars/activities.  Sometimes living in a small town forces you to do things that you wouldn't have thought you'd like (e.g. trail running, hiking, sailing, etc.)


----------



## mariomike (9 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I always had the best luck with small town girls, for some reason.



Just a small town girl
Livin' in a lonely world
She took the midnight train goin' anywhere
Just a city boy
Born and raised in south Detroit
He took the midnight train goin' anywhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvhEoL7wzCs


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (9 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Just a small town girl
> Livin' in a lonely world
> She took the midnight train goin' anywhere
> Just a city boy
> ...



I only know that song because of The Sopranos


----------



## PMedMoe (9 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I only know that song because of The Sopranos



Better than knowing it because of Glee....


----------



## RedcapCrusader (9 Jun 2015)

Toronto is too big, too busy, and too congested for my liking. I don't hate the place, but I don't like it either.

Plus the comments from a certain Toronto Media person that said "Toronto deserves to host the FIFA Women's World Cup" in a spate of jealousy over Edmonton's winning bid were quite irritating. I know not everyone from Toronto is like that, and could be said about anyone in any city.

Problem 1) Toronto didn't bid
Problem 2) Toronto is already hosting the Pan-Am and Para Pan-Am Games making them ineligible to host another major sporting event
Problem 3) Just because Toronto is the biggest city, it is not the centre of all things that be. Let someone else have a turn in the spotlight for once.


----------



## Kat Stevens (9 Jun 2015)

The only thing wrong with Toronto is all the urban douchebag hipster Torontoroids, or whatever those people are called, that think being from there somehow gives them some god given right to sneer at the rest of us poor dumb hicks, sort of like what they've been doing throughout this thread.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (10 Jun 2015)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> The only thing wrong with Toronto is all the urban douchebag hipster Torontoroids, or whatever those people are called, that think being from there somehow gives them some god given right to sneer at the rest of us poor dumb hicks, sort of like what they've been doing throughout this thread.



I think you're cool


----------



## Kat Stevens (10 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I think you're cool



You have no idea what that means to me.


----------



## The Bread Guy (10 Jun 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Lots of people in big cities can be bored out of their mind too, going to the same restaurants/bars/activities.


Or are too busy living their lives to hit all the hot spots.  How many Parisiens haven't been up the Eiffell Tower, or New Yorkers haven't been up the Empire State Building?


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (10 Jun 2015)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Or are too busy living their lives to hit all the hot spots.  How many Parisiens haven't been up the Eiffell Tower, or New Yorkers haven't been up the Empire State Building?



I haven't been to the CN Tower yet and probably never will. Myself, along with a lot of other people, won't pay an insane amount of money just to ride up a tall building. It has a glass floor! Big whoop


----------



## Fishbone Jones (10 Jun 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> Well...it shouldn't because there is a whole lot of crap that happens in the boonies, that I wouldn't want to be part of. Most of the time, boonies folks are bored out of their mind, and a trip to Costco / meet up a Timmies parking lot / driving ATVs up and down is the highlight of their day / week.
> 
> Folks from the boonies are also more likely to believe everything they see/hear on the news.



And in your mind, those boonies are anywhere outside your postal code. 

You need to get out once in awhile.


----------



## cupper (10 Jun 2015)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Toronto is too big, too busy, and too congested for my liking.



You should avoid New York City then. Just spent a week there for work, travelled all 5 boroughs. Toronto has nothing on being too big, too busy or too congested when compared to New York.

It's all a matter of perspective.


----------



## cupper (10 Jun 2015)

*Why Canadians Hate Toronto*

http://www.vice.com/read/toronto-is-exactly-the-kind-of-city-canada-deserves-to-bring-us-together-in-mutual-loathing



> Resenting Toronto is a basic part of growing up in the Canadian prairies, where I am from.
> 
> We are taught from an early age that those who live "out East" are selfish swindlers intent on fucking over the rest of the country, and many people are still mad about policies that privileged Central Canadian elites over the Western provinces going as far back as John A. Macdonald's first government.
> 
> ...


----------



## mariomike (10 Jun 2015)

^ Like you say, cupper  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/119485/post-1370169.html#msg1370169


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (11 Jun 2015)

This reminds of Sarah Palin's "Real Americans" comment from years back where a disconnect exists between small town folk and big city folk. I've met several tourists who thought Toronto is or should be the capital of the nation and I think we are, in a way. I think I have the best of both worlds where downtown Toronto is a half hour commute via TTC.


----------



## RedcapCrusader (11 Jun 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> You should void New York City then. Just spend a week there for work, travelled all 5 boroughs. Toronto has nothing on being too big, too busy or too congested when compared to New York.
> 
> It's all a matter of perspective.



I've been to LA, New York, Boston, Detroit, Chicago. 

Boston was the only one I enjoyed. 

Still doesn't change what I think about Toronto.

Norfolk Virgina.... Now that's a city!


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (11 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> This reminds of Sarah Palin's "Real Americans" comment from years back where a disconnect exists between small town folk and big city folk. I've met several tourists who thought Toronto is or should be the capital of the nation and I think we are, in a way. I think I have the best of both worlds where downtown Toronto is a half hour commute via TTC.



Toronto is the financial capital and the economic powerhouse, it's not the national capital for very good reason.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (11 Jun 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> And in your mind, those boonies are anywhere outside your postal code.
> 
> You need to get out once in awhile.



Actually, RG, I currently live "in the boonies". My postal code covers 47.5 square kilometres. In TO, you can go through five different postal codes just going up the elevator in the BMO tower  ;D .

All said though, I've always enjoyed Toronto, except for the fact that people go out too early and as a result, everything downtown closes too early - but that is just  my Montrealer's bias.


----------



## George Wallace (11 Jun 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Toronto is the financial capital and the economic powerhouse, it's not the national capital for very good reason.



Much the same way the "Big Apple" is not the capital of the US of A.   ;D


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (11 Jun 2015)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Actually, RG, I currently live "in the boonies". My postal code covers 47.5 square kilometres. In TO, you can go through five different postal codes just going up the elevator in the BMO tower  ;D .
> 
> All said though, I've always enjoyed Toronto, except for the fact that people go out too early and as a result, everything downtown closes too early - but that is just  my Montrealer's bias.
> 
> You could enjoy after hours spots that are dotted around the city past 2am.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (11 Jun 2015)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Actually, RG, I currently live "in the boonies". My postal code covers 47.5 square kilometres. In TO, you can go through five different postal codes just going up the elevator in the BMO tower  ;D .
> 
> All said though, I've always enjoyed Toronto, except for the fact that people go out too early and as a result, everything downtown closes too early - but that is just  my Montrealer's bias.



You think that's bad, my address was five digits and included Rural Route 1 at one point.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (11 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I was stationed at Richmond and Strachan back in the 1970's. It was heavy-industry factories back then. Deinstitutionalization wrecked havoc on us and the area.
> I guess the Hipsters re-invigorated it, but I was long gone by then.
> Never cared much for the Yonge and Dundas crowd, back then or now.



Didn't catch that last part earlier in the thread. I'm curious as to why you feel this way, Mike? I love people watching and when I was a smoker I would hang out in front of the Eaton Centre near Sears and watch the people go by for a good twenty minutes or so. Met all sorts there; tourists, construction workers, crazy people etc. Its a fun spot if you don't mind crowds and the occasional drunk who plants himself there


----------



## cupper (11 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> This reminds of Sarah Palin's "Real Americans" comment from years back where a disconnect exists between small town folk and big city folk.



Yes, but let's not forget that Sarah Palin thinks that Alaska is "Real America". :nod:

And she would know, 'cause she reads all the newspapers and magazines. ;D


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (11 Jun 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> Yes, but let's not forget that Sarah Palin thinks that Alaska is "Real America". :nod:
> 
> And she would know, 'cause she reads all the newspapers and magazines. ;D



If its on the internet then it must be true... especially if its Fox News they're always on top of things


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (11 Jun 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> You think that's bad, my address was five digits and included Rural Route 1 at one point.



RR1 mail still gets to me here  ;D .


----------



## mariomike (12 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Didn't catch that last part earlier in the thread. I'm curious as to why you feel this way, Mike? I love people watching and when I was a smoker I would hang out in front of the Eaton Centre near Sears and watch the people go by for a good twenty minutes or so. Met all sorts there; tourists, construction workers, crazy people etc. Its a fun spot if you don't mind crowds and the occasional drunk who plants himself there



Are you familiar with PATH? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto)

The Skywalk connects with the Union Station - Pearson Airport Express, with access to the Island ferry service, and ( I believe ) somehow will connect with the Island Airport pedestrian tunnel. 

Regarding the observation deck of the CN Tower. I found it a tremendous help in learning the geography of the city.

Last year, our Chief Planner said, "147 hirise buildings under construction in Toronto. NYC comes in second at 90." 
I went up in the Tower not so long ago, and the changes I saw since I retired are staggering. 

Back in 1999, they told us that TO had 21 million visitors per year. No idea what is now, especially with the recently opened UP Express.


----------



## dimsum (12 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Are you familiar with PATH?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto)
> 
> The Skywalk connects with the Union Station - Pearson Airport Express, with access to the Island ferry service, and ( I believe ) somehow will connect with the Island Airport pedestrian tunnel.
> ...



The thing I have with TO, my hometown, is that aside from the amount of people and the financial/film sector, what does it actually have?  Montreal has the "old Canada" culture (but I think Quebec City is better for that), and Vancouver has the nature and mountains at their doorstep.  I'll say that it has the Multicultural aspect down, but Vancouver is approaching that way too.

I try to tell people what's good about TO, but from my experiences overseas, people outside Canada think of Canada as this untouched pristine nature preserve.  The fact that people have to drive out 3+ hours to Muskoka to experience "nature" is ridiculous.


----------



## George Wallace (12 Jun 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> The thing I have with TO, my hometown, is that aside from the amount of people and the financial/film sector, what does it actually have?



It has its suburbs:  Niagara Falls, Niagara Peninsula vineyards, Wasaga Beach, Horseshoe Valley, etc. and of course Lake Ontario for water sports and relaxation.    ;D


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Jun 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> The thing I have with TO, my hometown, is that aside from the amount of people and the financial/film sector, what does it actually have?  Montreal has the "old Canada" culture (but I think Quebec City is better for that), and Vancouver has the nature and mountains at their doorstep.  I'll say that it has the Multicultural aspect down, but Vancouver is approaching that way too.
> 
> I try to tell people what's good about TO, but from my experiences overseas, people outside Canada think of Canada as this untouched pristine nature preserve.  The fact that people have to drive out 3+ hours to Muskoka to experience "nature" is ridiculous.



I find that one person's TO is different than someone else's. For me, its seeing people of all ages, races, and lifestyle's (hipster, yuppie etc) getting along to the point where I can name one bar/nightclub in every neighborhood and you'll find this mix. You'll find people who will say its the fact they have a neighbourhood of their own (Church/Wellesley, Little Italy etc) but can venture out and explore, people who'll say this is where I can make a career happen, be it entertainment, finance etc or people who feel content here and don't care about what the city actually is.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Jun 2015)

I'm getting ready to put a stake through the heart of this thread.

What do you hate is fast becoming a kumbaya group hug.

---Staff---


----------



## Kat Stevens (12 Jun 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I'm getting ready to put a stake through the heart of this thread.
> 
> What do you hate is fast becoming a kumbaya group hug.
> 
> ---Staff---



Double dog dare ya.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Jun 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I'm getting ready to put a stake through the heart of this thread.
> 
> What do you hate is fast becoming a kumbaya group hug.
> 
> ---Staff---



Not sure what you're expecting out of this thread, recceguy.


----------



## mariomike (12 Jun 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> The thing I have with TO, my hometown, is that aside from the amount of people and the financial/film sector, what does it actually have?



Jobs?

Without looking it up, there are probably 10,000 full-time police officers, firefighters and paramedics on the City Hall payroll.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Jobs?
> 
> Without looking it up, there are probably 10,000 full-time police officers, firefighters and paramedics on the City Hall payroll.



Toronto has some of the best universities in the world, too. I've met so many people, not just from all over Canada, but the world too who struggled and fought to come here to live and learn.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (13 Jun 2015)

Now that the Gardiner has finally seen movement on its future with the "Hybrid" solution I hope the public transit situation will be seriously looked at as well. I think a legitimate criticism about Toronto is the traffic and while the Gardiner is a step in the right direction I wonder how else they're expecting to deal with a city growing at an exponential rate. For all the many condos going up in this town you'd expect there to be equal attention to infrastructure as well. 

Speaking of construction I like what they've done with City Hall along Queen going to University. What sucks is the eyesore that was Sears; the scaffolding running along Yonge near Dundas is a pain with only maybe two people able to walk the sidewalk shoulder to shoulder.


----------



## mariomike (14 Jun 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> For all the many condos going up in this town you'd expect there to be equal attention to infrastructure as well.



I have been following the Manhattanization of Toronto with interest. The area I live was one of the last two independent "forested" villages to be annexed by the City in 1967. Many of our long-time residents still insist that they are not part of Toronto.  
Nine sites have been identified for re-development as condominiums in the 8 – 12 storey range. ( Not so tall compared to the 80-floor condominium skyscrapers downtown. )
http://www.talkcondo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/talkcondo-new-condos-in-toronto-tallest-condos.jpg
I guess that's what they call progress, but you can imagine how unpopular any high-rise proposals are with the local ratepayer's association.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (14 Jun 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I have been following the Manhattanization of Toronto with interest. The area I live was one of the last two independent "forested" villages to be annexed by the City in 1967. Many of our long-time residents still insist that they are not part of Toronto.
> Nine sites have been identified for re-development as condominiums in the 8 – 12 storey range. ( Not so tall compared to the 80-floor condominium skyscrapers downtown. )
> http://www.talkcondo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/talkcondo-new-condos-in-toronto-tallest-condos.jpg
> I guess that's what they call progress, but you can imagine how unpopular any high-rise proposals are with the local ratepayer's association.



I notice what Parkdale is becoming and think it'll end up being like Harlem; durng the latter half of the 20th century it was a poverty stricken neighbourhood but now its being occupied more and more by well to do folks. I think Regent Park is undergoing the same thing with the new condos being built there as well. I hate the idea that West Queen West will lose a bit of its identity but I suppose its going happen whether people like it or not.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

I hope Toronto bids for and gets the Olympics. I can't imagine any other city in Canada representing what this country is all about along with representing all those teams that'll participate in the Olympic games. I'm sure every team will have hundreds if not thousands of fans who, although they are Canadian, will take interest in seeing their birth countries team.


----------



## FJAG (12 Aug 2015)

Global News article here about how_Metropolis Magazine_ has just named Toronto the most liveable city in the world.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2160910/toronto-ranked-most-livable-city-in-the-world-by-metropolis-magazine/

 :cheers:


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I hope Toronto bids for and gets the Olympics. I can't imagine any other city in Canada representing what this country is all about along with representing all those teams that'll participate in the Olympic games. I'm sure every team will have hundreds if not thousands of fans who, although they are Canadian, will take interest in seeing their birth countries team.



Yep, let's let Wynne spend more money we don't have. Anything to prove, once more, that Cabbagetown considers itself the Centre of the Universe :


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (12 Aug 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Yep, let's let Wynne spend more money we don't have. Anything to prove, once more, that Cabbagetown considers itself the Centre of the Universe :



Greece hosted the Summer Olympics in 2004.  10 years later they are bankrupt, take it for what it's worth


----------



## George Wallace (12 Aug 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Greece hosted the Summer Olympics in 2004.  10 years later they are bankrupt, take it for what it's worth



Interesting phenomenon.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Yep, let's let Wynne spend more money we don't have. Anything to prove, once more, that Cabbagetown considers itself the Centre of the Universe :



No one knows what the fiscal state of the Province will be by then. The infrastructure from the Pan Am and Para Pan Am games will still be around. Likely the new stadium in Markham will be built as well. I imagine the city will see a massive amount of tourism dollars from those in the US and elsewhere. 



			
				RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Greece hosted the Summer Olympics in 2004.  10 years later they are bankrupt, take it for what it's worth



We're not Greece.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (12 Aug 2015)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Interesting phenomenon.



Let's look at some nice photos of the Greek Olympic Village today




















Now is Ontario as hard up as Greece is?  No but could it find itself in a position like Greece?  I would say easier than we think.  I'm sure the Greeks didn't think they would go bankrupt in 2004 either.

How about Ontario worry about getting its spending under control, investing in actual infrastructure and fostering an environment that is conducive to economic growth and development.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

RoyalDrew, I'm curious as to why you think of Ontario as its own country. You're not the first person I've spoken to to draw those parallels.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> No one knows what the fiscal state of the Province will be by then. The infrastructure from the Pan Am and Para Pan Am games will still be around. Likely the new stadium in Markham will be built as well. I imagine the city will see a massive amount of tourism dollars from those in the US and elsewhere.
> 
> We're not Greece.



And Ontario isn't Toronto. Get over yourselves. We can't afford it and we won't be in any better shape, fiscally, as long as Wynne and her gang of thieves are still in power.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> RoyalDrew, I'm curious as to why you think of Ontario as its own country. You're not the first person I've spoken to to draw those parallels.


I'm curious as to why Toronto thinks it's a province?


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> And Ontario isn't Toronto. Get over yourselves. We can't afford it and we won't be in any better shape, fiscally, as long as Wynne and her gang of thieves are still in power.



Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto. And there is nothing to get over; the people who stereotype the city are those looking from the outside in. Myself and many of my friends and family here aren't living in a bubble where we are Canada. I really have no idea where these stereotypes come from because more than half of this city has residents that were born and raised, I'd wager, outside of it.


----------



## George Wallace (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> No one knows what the fiscal state of the Province will be by then. The infrastructure from the Pan Am and Para Pan Am games will still be around. Likely the new stadium in Markham will be built as well. I imagine the city will see a massive amount of tourism dollars from those in the US and elsewhere.
> 
> We're not Greece.



The Olympics are not the Pan Am Games.  The Olympics are much larger.  The current facilities in Toronto were able to handle the Pan Am Games, but are not large enough to hold Olympic venues.  Seating capacities are too small in most of the current locations.  Transportation and Housing would be a much larger logistical problem for the Olympics, not to mention the heightened Security measures that would have to be put into place.  That would mean that the City of Toronto could not afford it, and would need both the Provincial and Federal Governments to help finance it.  With the amount of debt that the Province of Ontario already has, nearing bankruptcy right now, the dream is doomed. 

It is great that the people are enthusiastic for the Olympics to come to Toronto, but fiscal realities indicate that it is a VERY BAD IDEA.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto. And there is nothing to get over; the people who stereotype the city are those looking from the outside in. Myself and many of my friends and family here aren't living in a bubble where we are Canada. I really have no idea where these stereotypes come from because more than half of this city has residents that were born and raised, I'd wager, outside of it.



You're going through life with blinders and selective conciousness.


----------



## George Wallace (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto. And there is nothing to get over; the people who stereotype the city are those looking from the outside in. Myself and many of my friends and family here aren't living in a bubble where we are Canada. I really have no idea where these stereotypes come from because more than half of this city has residents that were born and raised, I'd wager, outside of it.



The fact that many in Toronto are born and/or raised outside of it has nothing to do with your argument.  

Yes, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario.  Guess who reelected her and her corrupt Party to power?  It wasn't all the Ridings outside of the GTA.


----------



## cavalryman (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto.


No - Wynne's issues extend no further than her blinkered, and really quite stupid progressive constituency, mostly concentrated in and around Toronto.  She's hardly the province's premier.  Bringing the Olympics to a province as abysmally managed as Ontario would be a financial disaster that I'm not prepared to pay for.  I'm already paying way too much for electricity thanks to the thieves surrounding Dalton McGuinty (the worst premier Ontario ever had) and Wynne (the second worst - for now).


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> RoyalDrew, I'm curious as to why you think of Ontario as its own country. You're not the first person I've spoken to to draw those parallels.



Because in many ways it is its own country.  Just look up the word "Confederation" if you don't already know what it means.  

Provincial governments are actually responsible for a considerable amount which many Canadians don't seem to understand.  In fact many thing which Canadians care about the most (Healthcare, Education) are actually Provincial responsibilities.  Yet every Federal election you see healthcare pop up as the number on concern (psssst wrong election).

Ontario is presently running a large deficit, has a high debt to gap ratio and has had many of its money making industries shuttered over the past few years.  Instead of spending money on the Olympics which is the equivalent of taking your money and flushing it down the toilet it should be looking to invest in infrastructure and making itself more competitive in the global marketplace.

Toronto is much like Ancient Rome, it's a big sprawling city with lots of money but it actually produces very little if anything of actual value.  A substantial majority of jobs there are service based.  I fear that we've reached the point of decadence.  We need to be very careful.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The Olympics are not the Pan Am Games.  The Olympics are much larger.  The current facilities in Toronto were able to handle the Pan Am Games, but are not large enough to hold Olympic venues.  Seating capacities are too small in most of the current locations.  Transportation and Housing would be a much larger logistical problem for the Olympics, not to mention the heightened Security measures that would have to be put into place.  That would mean that the City of Toronto could not afford it, and would need both the Provincial and Federal Governments to help finance it.  With the amount of debt that the Province of Ontario already has, nearing bankruptcy right now, the dream is doomed.
> 
> It is great that the people are enthusiastic for the Olympics to come to Toronto, but fiscal realities indicate that it is a VERY BAD IDEA.



Fair enough but we wouldn't be starting from scratch.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> You're going through life with blinders and selective conciousness.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_the_Province_of_Toronto

Not to be antagonistic or anything but where does your dislike of Toronto come from? You realize that the media is partially to blame for their Toronto centric coverage, right? This city is what's great about Canada (different backgrounds gelling together, low crime rate, a billion things to do etc) but it isn't Canada. I don't feel that way and I can tell you that many of the people I've met, worked with, drink with don't feel that way either. Matter of fact, most of them aren't even from Toronto. 



			
				cavalryman said:
			
		

> No - Wynne's issues extend no further than her blinkered, and really quite stupid progressive constituency, mostly concentrated in and around Toronto.  She's hardly the province's premier.  Bringing the Olympics to a province as abysmally managed as Ontario would be a financial disaster that I'm not prepared to pay for.  I'm already paying way too much for electricity thanks to the thieves surrounding Dalton McGuinty (the worst premier Ontario ever had) and Wynne (the second worst - for now).



That's democracy for you. She sold people on her agenda, they voted, and here she is. I'd look at what the people outside of Toronto are doing rather than looking at us. 



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> The fact that many in Toronto are born and/or raised outside of it has nothing to do with your argument.
> 
> Yes, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario.  Guess who reelected her and her corrupt Party to power?  It wasn't all the Ridings outside of the GTA.



Then maybe those ridings need to do more to make themselves be heard


----------



## George Wallace (12 Aug 2015)

cavalryman said:
			
		

> No - Wynne's issues extend no further than her blinkered, and really quite stupid progressive constituency, mostly concentrated in and around Toronto.  She's hardly the province's premier.  Bringing the Olympics to a province as abysmally managed as Ontario would be a financial disaster that I'm not prepared to pay for.  I'm already paying way too much for electricity thanks to the thieves surrounding Dalton McGuinty (the worst premier Ontario ever had) and Wynne (the second worst - for now).



ELECTRICITY!  Another total screw up on the part of the Ontario Liberals:

http://www.windconcernsontario.ca/six-months-and-ontarios-exports-over-1b/


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Fair enough but we wouldn't be starting from scratch.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_the_Province_of_Toronto
> 
> ...



The problem is that the people in Toronto are too stupid to realize that they are drinking bottled water from a cooler, yes the water tastes really good and it's nice and cold but it's from a 20L jug which will soon run out.  

Ontario is blessed with the fact that the Northern part of the Province is filled with extensive natural resources which can and should be used to fuel the economy yet the provincial government has done very little if anything to facilitate development up there.  Take the Ring of Fire near James Bay where Ontario wanted the Federal government to pay for development, the Feds told Ms. Wynne "it's not our job to develop your resources".


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> The problem is that the people in Toronto are too stupid to realize that they are drinking bottled water from a cooler, yes the water tastes really good and it's nice and cold but it's from a 20L jug which will soon run out.
> 
> Ontario is blessed with the fact that the Northern part of the Province is filled with extensive natural resources which can and should be used to fuel the economy yet the provincial government has done very little if anything to facilitate development up there.  Take the Ring of Fire near James Bay where Ontario wanted the Federal government to pay for development, the Feds told Ms. Wynne "it's not our job to develop your resources".



Again, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, not Toronto. Is Wynne terrible? Yes. What she's doing is politics, pure and simple which is catering to those who voted her in. I would argue that she hasn't really even done that as noted earlier in the thread with regards to infrastructure. The Golden Horsehoe is growing, with Barrie, I believe, the fastest growing city in the Province. You are making it seem like Toronto is to blame for all the Province's woes when its the current Liberal government. Did Toronto help usher them into power? Absolutely but again, the outside ridings have to share the blame


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Again, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, not Toronto. Is Wynne terrible? Yes. What she's doing is politics, pure and simple which is catering to those who voted her in. I would argue that she hasn't really even done that as noted earlier in the thread with regards to infrastructure. The Golden Horsehoe is growing, with Barrie, I believe, the fastest growing city in the Province. You are making it seem like Toronto is to blame for all the Province's woes when its the current Liberal government. Did Toronto help usher them into power? Absolutely but again, the outside ridings have to share the blame




Outside ridings? You've just proved our point. Even you are espousing an us vs them comparison. And no, we don't have to share the blame. We didn't vote for her, Toronto did. It's all on you.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (12 Aug 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Outside ridings? You've just proved our point. Even you are espousing an us vs them comparison. And no, we don't have to share the blame. We didn't vote for her, Toronto did. It's all on you.



I don't feel that I have an "us vs them" mentality. I'm just saying that if you feel that Toronto is responsible for the ills of the Province you're wrong. The Liberal's under Wynne don't just represent us, they represent you as well, whether you like it or not.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I don't feel that I have an "us vs them" mentality. I'm just saying that if you feel that Toronto is responsible for the ills of the Province you're wrong. The Liberal's under Wynne don't just represent us, they represent you as well, whether you like it or not.



I can't decide whether you just don't understand or are quaintly naïve. Either way, you'll not change your mind. Don't drop your rose coloured glasses, they're very fragile.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (13 Aug 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I can't decide whether you just don't understand or are quaintly naïve. Either way, you'll not change your mind. Don't drop your rose coloured glasses, they're very fragile.



That may be the case. And the truth is I don't know much of Canada outside the GTA as much as I'd like to. But even if things were all rosy the hate for Toronto would still be the same. Hating Toronto is as Canadian as they come. The list of (BS) reasons are quite extensive from what I hear so you and I both are wearing those rose coloured glasses.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (13 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> That may be the case. And the truth is I don't know much of Canada outside the GTA as much as I'd like to. But even if things were all rosy the hate for Toronto would still be the same. Hating Toronto is as Canadian as they come. The list of (BS) reasons are quite extensive from what I hear so you and I both are wearing those rose coloured glasses.



Well maybe when you travel a bit more you'll develop some perspective.  I certainly have.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (13 Aug 2015)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Well maybe when you travel a bit more you'll develop some perspective.  I certainly have.



I'm sill in the process of applying for Reg Force Infantry and the hope is to get that perspective where ever I end up. I love the city but I'd like to see more of Canada.


----------



## mariomike (13 Aug 2015)

"Toronto is also cited as a city with an estimated population boom of more than three million people in the next 15 years."

Good grief.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (13 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I'm sill in the process of applying for Reg Force Infantry and the hope is to get that perspective where ever I end up. I love the city but I'd like to see more of Canada.



And you most definitely will.  Good luck!


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (13 Aug 2015)

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/toronto-olympics-bid-mayor-john-tory-nowhere-near-decision-1.2515322

Toronto may or may not meet the deadline for submission as Mayor Tory wants to see what the impact of the Pan Am and Para Pan Am Games were. And should Toronto throw its hat in the ring and win I will buy recceguy tickets to whichever event he wants...


----------



## RocketRichard (13 Aug 2015)

Love it now that the Jays are rollin'!


----------



## blacktriangle (13 Aug 2015)

Disclaimer - I'm from the area. I'm not a country guy and I don't drive a truck, fish, or hunt. Not looking to settle down in Petawawa or anything like that EVER. With that said:

Toronto's downtown/waterfront is nice in summer and as long as you live and work downtown. It can be a good time for a young person as long as you like to get wasted and take the TTC home. It has a good school in U of T and King West is a pretty nice area etc. 

As soon as you get anywhere outside of that, it's garbage to me and I hate living there. Driving is terrible. Basically you feel like no one is actually Canadian and don't even get me started on the attitudes and political ideals. I'd have to be LCol married to someone of an equal income to even get approved for a mortgage where I grew up...anything past a 1 bedroom condo is out of reach for me until I either win the lottery or my parents pass away. Would I do a posting there? Sure, and I'd live downtown and take TTC to Denison or something like that. Just to be closer to family or do UTPNCM. Could I support a family there? Would I be able to get married there if it wasn't a pretty strong DINK situation? Absolutely not. 

Unless I was a doctor or working in the finance district, I wouldn't even think about going back for anything longer than additional education or a quick posting while young/single. 

In the end, Toronto's only positives can be found in Kingston, ON for a quarter of the price and far less hassle. Everyone where I'm from is cashing out and moving on to greener pastures...

Did I mention they are real big fans of the military there?


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (13 Aug 2015)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Disclaimer - I'm from the area. I'm not a country guy and I don't drive a truck, fish, or hunt. Not looking to settle down in Petawawa or anything like that EVER. With that said:
> 
> Toronto's downtown/waterfront is nice in summer and as long as you live and work downtown. It can be a good time for a young person as long as you like to get wasted and take the TTC home. It has a good school in U of T and King West is a pretty nice area etc.
> 
> ...



I rode the TTC during my short time as a reservist in uniform and never encountered any hostility. Keep in mind I was going to and from in the evening then night, usually around 10:30 -11:00pm. I was never uncomfortable doing so.

I agree that it's pricey as hell but depending on what you want/need, your family situation etc you can live comfortably downtown in places like Parkdale, Cabbagetown, the Ossington strip, Little Portugal and countless other places. 

Not sure what you mean by "you feel like no one is actually Canadian" as that speaks to the idea that once whites are outnumbered that city/town/neighborhood is somehow a country unto itself. I'm sure plenty of people think I'm not "Canadian" even though I was born here. Heard that BS before


----------



## blacktriangle (13 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I rode the TTC during my short time as a reservist in uniform and never encountered any hostility. Keep in mind I was going to and from in the evening then night, usually around 10:30 -11:00pm. I was never uncomfortable doing s.
> 
> I agree that it's pricey as hell but depending on what you want/need, your family situation etc you can live comfortably downtown in places like Parkdale, Cabbagetown, the Ossington strip, Little Portugal and countless other places.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "you feel like no one is actually Canadian" as that speaks to the idea that once whites are outnumbered that city/town/neighborhood is somehow a country unto itself. I'm sure plenty of people think I'm not "Canadian" even though I was born here. Heard that BS before



It's not a race issue at all - I grew up in the area, so I have a diverse set of friends. I don't care what a person looks like - it's the cultures I take issue with. You can't realistically take a family from Somalia and plop them down in the GTA with no set expectations, guidance or education and expect it's going to work out well. It's not doing those families (or mine) any good.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (13 Aug 2015)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> It's not a race issue at all - I grew up in the area, so I have a diverse set of friends. I don't care what a person looks like - it's the cultures I take issue with. You can't realistically take a family from Somalia and plop them down in the GTA with no set expectations, guidance or education and expect it's going to work out well. It's not doing those families (or mine) any good.



That's very true. Usually it's the kids of those parent's who tend to assimilate better... most of the time.


----------



## mariomike (16 Aug 2015)

An interesting six pages. I don't follow party politics. 
But,  after serving almost 37 years full-time  on Toronto's  emergency services,  it's nice to know that in spite of the ever increasing population growth and call volume, young people from across Ontario  are still applying to join Metro's police, fire and paramedic services.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (17 Aug 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> An interesting six pages. I don't follow party politics.
> But,  after serving almost 37 years full-time  on Toronto's  emergency services,  it's nice to know that in spite of the ever increasing population growth and call volume, young people from across Ontario  are still applying to join Metro's police, fire and paramedic services.



Things are unbelievably competitive now with regards to EMS, Fire and Police here in the city. Every other guy or girl I meet in this city be it bars, coffee shops, and/or through friends are looking to or just stopped trying to join one of these services. I recently interviewed a man from Timmins who moved here to join the Toronto Fire Services; he has two degrees, volunteer work, and some reserve years under his belt. At 34 he's still pursuing the dream and I asked him what age will he stop trying and he said "30" with a smile on his face.


----------



## mariomike (23 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Things are unbelievably competitive now with regards to EMS, Fire and Police here in the city. Every other guy or girl I meet in this city be it bars, coffee shops, and/or through friends are looking to or just stopped trying to join one of these services. I recently interviewed a man from Timmins who moved here to join the Toronto Fire Services; he has two degrees, volunteer work, and some reserve years under his belt. At 34 he's still pursuing the dream and I asked him what age will he stop trying and he said "30" with a smile on his face.



The City of Toronto operates the largest municipal police, fire and paramedic services in Canada.  They attract candidates from across the country. 

I read that the average age when starting at Toronto Fire is 31.7. Toronto Police and Paramedic may be similar. For those candidates with "life experience ", the good news is that Toronto's police officers, firefighters and paramedics are now on an accelerated pension accural rate of 2.33 per cent. This allows them to achieve their 70 per cent maximum in 30 years rather than 35.

This came into effect with the passage of the OMERS Act in 2006. 

So, tell your friend to keep applying!


----------



## dapaterson (23 Aug 2015)

Other than pandering, there is no valid reason to provide fire/police/EMS with enhanced pension benefits.  The uncontrollable spiral of pay & benefits for emergency services is nearing a tipping point for many communities.


----------



## tomahawk6 (23 Aug 2015)

Probably a bit off topic,but I have visited both Toronto and Vancouver and felt more welcome in Toronto than in Vancouver.I did the Ft York tour and there were Canadian kids in the group who gave a rousing cheer when the guide discussed the War of 1812. ;D


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (23 Aug 2015)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Other than pandering, there is no valid reason to provide fire/police/EMS with enhanced pension benefits.  The uncontrollable spiral of pay & benefits for emergency services is nearing a tipping point for many communities.



I couldn't agree with you more.



			
				tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Probably a bit off topic,but I have visited both Toronto and Vancouver and felt more welcome in Toronto than in Vancouver.I did the Ft York tour and there were Canadian kids in the group who gave a rousing cheer when the guide discussed the War of 1812. ;D



Toronto is funny in that way because a lot of people are surprised with how friendly and helpful people are. Some would say its because many of the people here weren't actually born in the city but I like to think we're no different than any other big city, Canadian or otherwise.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (23 Aug 2015)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> . . .  there were Canadian kids in the group who gave a rousing cheer when the guide discussed the War of 1812. ;D



That's because we beat you and burned down the White House!  Afterwards, we went for Laura Secord chocolates.


----------



## tomahawk6 (23 Aug 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> That's because we beat you and burned down the White House!  Afterwards, we went for Laura Secord chocolates.



Up the Union Jack eh ?  ;D


----------



## mariomike (23 Aug 2015)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Probably a bit off topic,but I have visited both Toronto and Vancouver and felt more welcome in Toronto than in Vancouver.I did the Ft York tour and there were Canadian kids in the group who gave a rousing cheer when the guide discussed the War of 1812. ;D



I have met many Americans in Toronto.   Hardly surprising considering one half of the population of the United States is within a one day drive of the city. 
Most seemed to be enjoying themselves.


----------



## tomahawk6 (23 Aug 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I have met many Americans in Toronto.   Hardly surprising considering one half of the population of the United States is within a one day drive of the city.
> Most seemed to be enjoying themselves.



As did I.  :nod:


----------



## Good2Golf (24 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I don't feel that I have an "us vs them" mentality. I'm just saying that if you feel that Toronto is responsible for the ills of the Province you're wrong. The Liberal's under Wynne don't just represent us, they represent you as well, whether you like it or not.



Imagine an outsider being asked to tell someone what colour won the election?  Now you know why people have the feeling that Toronto (along with Ottawa and Thunder Bay) controls everything that happens in Ontario.

http://cponline.thecanadianpress.com/graphics/elections/provincial/pages/ONT-ELXN/

The thing that many people find particularly strange with your cheerleading for Toronto (the GTA even), and that includes me who grew up in T.O., is that when a city is so large, the part that people are proud about is not the entire metropolitan area, but their own neighbourhood, like "I grew up on the Danforth [or Cabbagetown, or the Beaches, or Parkdale, etc...] and love the energy, culture, [insert other characteristic here]!"

Many of us could list any number of Canadian cities that have similar, if not more, culture and coolness.  Perhaps while you wait for your application to the RegF to be processed, you might consider doing a little bit of cross-country travel to see what other cities, towns, etc... have to offer.

:2c:

G2G


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (24 Aug 2015)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Imagine an outsider being asked to tell someone what colour won the election?  Now you know why people have the feeling that Toronto (along with Ottawa and Thunder Bay) controls everything that happens in Ontario.
> 
> http://cponline.thecanadianpress.com/graphics/elections/provincial/pages/ONT-ELXN/
> 
> ...



I have been thinking about that. I know whatever happens I'll do it anyway but I would like to actually live somewhere that's not Toronto, preferably Alberta, so as to experience life on the West Coast. At the moment I can't imagine wanting to live anywhere other than Toronto which is a problem; Vancouver, Victoria, Montreal, Calgary etc are all great cities (on paper) that I would love to fall in love with but life just hasn't made it so.


----------



## Remius (24 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I would like to actually live somewhere that's not Toronto, preferably Alberta, so as to experience life on the West Coast.



Unless BC has fallen into the ocean going to Alberta might not help you with experiencing life on the west coast...


----------



## Scott (24 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I know whatever happens I'll do it anyway but I would like to actually live somewhere that's not Toronto, preferably Alberta, so as to experience life on the West Coast.



Wow. That's a "talking to Torontonians" moment if I ever saw one.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (24 Aug 2015)

Scott said:
			
		

> Wow. That's a "talking to Torontonians" moment if I ever saw one.



Yeah it looks bad so let me clarify: What I meant to type was living in Ontario I've been to cities and provinces close to me like Ottawa, Montreal etc. If I am accepted, pass all my courses and (hopefully) end up in Edmonton with (hopefully) The PPCLI it'll allow me to explore other provinces and cities I'm not familiar with.


----------



## dimsum (25 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Yeah it looks bad so let me clarify: What I meant to type was living in Ontario I've been to cities and provinces close to me like Ottawa, Montreal etc. If I am accepted, pass all my courses and (hopefully) end up in Edmonton with (hopefully) The PPCLI it'll allow me to explore other provinces and cities I'm not familiar with.



Save up your pennies and spend a week in Victoria?  That's all it took for me to realize I wanted to live there.   :nod:


----------



## Biggoals2bdone (26 Aug 2015)

Background before I post, not from Toronto but not from the sticks either I grew up in a city of approx 130-140K, so def not some tiny hick town like Petawawa.

I personally dislike Toronto, great place to visit for the multitude of attractions and what not.  I HATE public transportation, i'm one of those people who would rather drive than take metro/bus etc...so right away Toronto loses points for that...AND I hate being couped up in a tiny car so ya.

I don't have anything personally against T.O, I'm not a fan of MTL or Vancouver either.  One of my "beefs" with Toronto is that it seems TO accomodating, I mean I go there and the stores have chinese, japanese, russian, etc signs for bathrooms and etc...Sorry but there are 2 official languages here and ONE of them isn't even on there.  Almost wish that immigration told people you have to pick somewhere else to live than Toronto, MTL or Vancouver lol spread the love of this multi culturism.  Say what you want this isnt about race, but culture when i'm in Toronto I don't feel like i'm in Canada anymore

Obviously other reasons not a fan of toronto are housing...I don't want to live in a tiny dinky apartment that costs me what a house should cost...
Toronto is like the Canadian NY, New Yorkers are famous for believing the best of ANYTHING is in NY so why leave NY lol


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (26 Aug 2015)

MrBlue said:
			
		

> Background before I post, not from Toronto but not from the sticks either I grew up in a city of approx 130-140K, so def not some tiny hick town like Petawawa.
> 
> I personally dislike Toronto, great place to visit for the multitude of attractions and what not.  I HATE public transportation, i'm one of those people who would rather drive than take metro/bus etc...so right away Toronto loses points for that...AND I hate being couped up in a tiny car so ya.
> 
> ...



What is Canada, exactly? I'm curious as everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't. My impression about people like you is that Canada is small town living where everyone looks like you. Toronto is what people think Canada is all about; multiculturalism, freedom to be etc. If you think the country would want to advertise Bowmanville, Ont or Shilo, Manitoba as what Canada really is I doubt it'll go well in the way of tourism, attracting skilled workers to the country


----------



## FSTO (26 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> Yeah it looks bad so let me clarify: What I meant to type was living in Ontario I've been to cities and provinces close to me like Ottawa, Montreal etc. If I am accepted, pass all my courses and (hopefully) end up in Edmonton with (hopefully) The *PPCLI* it'll allow me to explore other provinces and cities I'm not familiar with.


You are going to love Shilo Manitoba then!

 ;D


----------



## dimsum (27 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> What is Canada, exactly? I'm curious as everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't. My impression about people like you is that Canada is small town living where everyone looks like you. Toronto is what people think Canada is all about; multiculturalism, freedom to be etc. If you think the country would want to advertise Bowmanville, Ont or Shilo, Manitoba as what Canada really is I doubt it'll go well in the way of tourism, attracting skilled workers to the country



...um, not to cast doubt on your choice of trade and/or Regiment, but you do realize the 2 PPCLI is based in Shilo, right?  

And in my very unscientific survey of Australians and Americans (with the occasional Brit and Kiwi thrown in for flavour), most of them think Canada is about wide open spaces, beautiful natural scenery, great places for snow and water sports, and free healthcare (ok, that was mostly Americans who thought that).  If I showed them Toronto, most Australians, as an example, would think it's much like Sydney and vice versa.


----------



## The Bread Guy (27 Aug 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> And in my very unscientific survey of Australians and Americans (with the occasional Brit and Kiwi thrown in for flavour), most of them think Canada is about wide open spaces, beautiful natural scenery, great places for snow and water sports ....


I hear the same thing in my own unscientific survey of Italians in Italy as well - with some of them adding "hunting and fishing".


----------



## FJAG (27 Aug 2015)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> . . .  If I showed them Toronto, most Australians, as an example, would think it's much like Sydney and vice versa.



Yeah, but, Lake Ontario and therefore Toronto, will not be effected by global warming and the rise of the sea levels. Sydney, on the other hand, . . .   ;D

 :cheers:


----------



## Teager (27 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> What is Canada, exactly? I'm curious as everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't. My impression about people like you is that Canada is small town living where everyone looks like you. Toronto is what people think Canada is all about; multiculturalism, freedom to be etc. If you think the country would want to advertise Bowmanville, Ont or Shilo, Manitoba as what Canada really is I doubt it'll go well in the way of tourism, attracting skilled workers to the country



I don't understand you. Toronto is NOT Canada. There is a ton of people that don't care for city life so get over it. I enjoy the peace and quiet in the very small town I live in. I also enjoy having a large home low taxes and a giant front and back yard. That is something you can't get in Toronto. Oh guess what not everyone looks like me. There are other races and cultures here in town too. For the record I'm not a small town hick either and I have lived in Toronto before too. Did not care for it. Nothing you say will change that.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (27 Aug 2015)

Teager said:
			
		

> I don't understand you. Toronto is NOT Canada. There is a ton of people that don't care for city life so get over it. I enjoy the peace and quiet in the very small town I live in. I also enjoy having a large home low taxes and a giant front and back yard. That is something you can't get in Toronto. Oh guess what not everyone looks like me. There are other races and cultures here in town too. For the record I'm not a small town hick either and I have lived in Toronto before too. Did not care for it. Nothing you say will change that.



 :goodpost:


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (27 Aug 2015)

Teager said:
			
		

> I don't understand you. Toronto is NOT Canada. There is a ton of people that don't care for city life so get over it. I enjoy the peace and quiet in the very small town I live in. I also enjoy having a large home low taxes and a giant front and back yard. That is something you can't get in Toronto. Oh guess what not everyone looks like me. There are other races and cultures here in town too. For the record I'm not a small town hick either and I have lived in Toronto before too. Did not care for it. Nothing you say will change that.



I never said Toronto is Canada...


----------



## Fishbone Jones (28 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> I never said Toronto is Canada...



However, you've been trying hard as hell since your opening post to convince everyone that it is.

Some people love the place and lots of people loath it.

You're not going to change any minds.

How about you just accept the fact that everyone is not Toronto centric and we'll all agree to disagree.

Put it to bed already.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (28 Aug 2015)

recceguy said:
			
		

> However, you've been trying hard as hell since your opening post to convince everyone that it is.
> 
> Some people love the place and lots of people loath it.
> 
> ...



I don't work for Toronto Tourism, recceguy. My "opening post" was inquiring as to what people thought of the city, nothing more.


----------



## Teager (28 Aug 2015)

FortYorkRifleman said:
			
		

> What is Canada, exactly? I'm curious as everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't. My impression about people like you is that Canada is small town living where everyone looks like you. Toronto is what people think Canada is all about; multiculturalism, freedom to be etc.



But you did say Toronto is what people think Canada is all about. I did not realize you speak for all people. If you want opinions then respect the fact that there will be lots of people that just don't care for city life. I'm glad you enjoy it it's what you like and I like somewhat the opposite. Your comments on people from small towns that don't care for Toronto that they seem closed minded or that they live in all white communities and don't care for other cultures/races is what irritates us. In all honesty you do sound like you are trying to sell Toronto.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (28 Aug 2015)

Teager said:
			
		

> But you did say Toronto is what people think Canada is all about. I did not realize you speak for all people. If you want opinions then respect the fact that there will be lots of people that just don't care for city life. I'm glad you enjoy it it's what you like and I like somewhat the opposite. Your comments on people from small towns that don't care for Toronto that they seem closed minded or that they live in all white communities and don't care for other cultures/races is what irritates us. In all honesty you do sound like you are trying to sell Toronto.



Ditto!  I grew up in a very small town in the middle of nowhere.  Valedictorian of my graduating year was Vietnamese.  My hometown is 60% French, 40% English and pretty much everyone speaks both languages.  We also have a substantial Aboriginal population.  I take offence to the fact that someone would say we aren't multicultural, I would say that someone doesn't know what the heck they are talking about.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman (28 Aug 2015)

Teager said:
			
		

> But you did say Toronto is what people think Canada is all about. I did not realize you speak for all people. If you want opinions then respect the fact that there will be lots of people that just don't care for city life. I'm glad you enjoy it it's what you like and I like somewhat the opposite. Your comments on people from small towns that don't care for Toronto that they seem closed minded or that they live in all white communities and don't care for other cultures/races is what irritates us. In all honesty you do sound like you are trying to sell Toronto.



I was referring to a poster who wrote that Toronto makes him feel like he's "not a Canadian". Don't put words in my mouth


----------



## Thomdrils (28 Aug 2015)

Three things you don't talk about with strangers, religion, politics and Toronto.


----------



## Lumber (28 Aug 2015)

Let's see if I can get this love fest  topic back on track...

Personally, I like Toronto. Every time I've been there, people have been really friendly. Torontonians have a real pride in being from Toronto (such as the way they rally around the leafs) that I really admire. I find it easy to get around and like the hussle and bussle of the city; you never feel lonely.

Also, I'm a big fan of ethnic food. Given that roughly ~50% of the city is foreign born, the options are endless! I love going into restaurants where I need pictures because even with a translation I don't really understand what they're offering. Some of _that _ food is the best!

One thing I don't like is that the layout of the city feels a little disjointed. It seems like all of the entertainment areas are really spread out. They'll be a nice retaurant here, a few pubs over there, etc. In Montreal, just go downtown on Sherbrooke/St.Catherine between Crescent and St.Denis and its all there! In Vancouver, just go to Granville st! (This is of course specific for nightlife).

Would I live there? Might not be my first choice, but I'd never say "ugh..not Toronto.."

My  :2c:


----------



## tomahawk6 (28 Aug 2015)

I liked a bar & grill called the Monkey Bar.Good food.


----------



## my72jeep (28 Aug 2015)

As a charter bus driver Toronto is horrible, every year there are less and less spots to park a bus downtown. Then when you find a "bus parking spot" it's been rented to a movie crew or construction crew. I was ticketed this June $250 for stoping to pick kids up at the Victoria resedince during morning rush hour. I spent more time getting the ticket from the bike cop then I did loading the 22 kids.


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## Old Sweat (28 Aug 2015)

One advantage of Toronto is that there are no hassles getting playoff tickets in April-May.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (28 Aug 2015)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> One advantage of Toronto is that there are no hassles getting playoff tickets in April-May.



Trying to get a golf club membership is very challenging though  >


----------



## tomahawk6 (28 Aug 2015)

Would Islington work for you ? They have a join now and play 2015 for free.

http://islingtongolfclub.com/Membership.aspx


----------



## mariomike (1 Sep 2015)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Other than pandering, there is no valid reason to provide fire/police/EMS with enhanced pension benefits.  The uncontrollable spiral of pay & benefits for emergency services is nearing a tipping point for many communities.



I didn't reply because we already have "Topic: Civilians complaining about Police/Emergency Services' Pay"  5 pages.

But, since this topic is about Toronto, in my ( admittedly biased ) opinion, I believe - because of the Call Volume - that Toronto's emergency services earn their  pensions.

For example: 

Metro Police dispatched 902,355 calls in 2010.

Toronto Fire Station 332 responds to over 5,000 calls a year. It serves the CN Tower, Air Canada Centre and the Skydome, not to mention scores of downtown condos, the theatres, restaurants and bars.

Toronto Paramedic Service is only funded for the city's residential population. One-third of Canada's population is located within a 100 mile radius of Toronto. One-half of the population of the United States is within a 1 day's drive of Toronto. It is Canada's #1 tourist destination. It is Canada's gateway to the international marketplace with accessibility via highways, air, rail and urban transit. 
As non-residents of the city, these out of town residents are not included in the funding. But, all come into the city expecting the same emergency response time and level of service as its residents. 
Between 2005 and 2011, Toronto Paramedic call volume increased 36 per cent. During that same period, the department saw only a one per cent increase in staff.


----------



## s2184 (6 Sep 2015)

I used to live in GTA for 14 years, then moved to Hamilton & lived there for a year.

Differences?

I found better employment opportunities in Hamilton. There are so many other opportunities in Hamilton in terms of money/finance/personal development, and so on.

But, I am coming back to GTA.  

Reason?

I need people around me in  my life. After you grow little bigger you want to go back, and hug the people who are there with you from the beginning.  ;D

I would strongly suggest Hamilton to new immigrants, and students (especially new graduates). I regret not to move to Hamilton long time ago.


----------



## Old Sweat (6 Sep 2015)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Would Islington work for you ? They have a join now and play 2015 for free.
> 
> http://islingtongolfclub.com/Membership.aspx



We'll excuse you for missing the irony. Drew was making the point that the Maple Leafs spend the playoffs on the golf course.


----------



## The Bread Guy (6 Sep 2015)

s2184 said:
			
		

> I need people around me in  my life. After you grow little bigger you want to go back, and hug the people who are there with you from the beginning.  ;D


Now THAT tends to be true, no matter where you come from.


----------



## dimsum (7 Sep 2015)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> We'll excuse you for missing the irony. Drew was making the point that the Maple Leafs spend the playoffs on the golf course.



I thought he got it, and sarcastically tried to extend the joke   :nod:


----------



## mariomike (7 Jun 2016)

I guess it really is 2016.  

They just killed a 40-year tradition in this town. They say it's in bad taste for this day and age. No doubt the Pride parade will go on as per usual.

CHIN cancels its long-running bikini pageant 
http://www.citynews.ca/2016/06/07/bikini-contests-wont-be-part-of-chins-50th-anniversary-picnic/

Mayor Ford must be spinning in his grave.


----------



## QM (7 Jun 2016)

Just remember that people in New York look down their noses at Toronto - small, bland, nothing to do, provincial. Just like people from Paris look down on New Yorkers. Just like people from Moscow look down on Parisians. Just like people from Hong Kong look down on Muscovites. etc.


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## cupper (7 Jun 2016)

Log Offr said:
			
		

> Just remember that people in New York look down their noses at Toronto - small, bland, nothing to do, provincial. Just like people from Paris look down on New Yorkers. Just like people from Moscow look down on Parisians. Just like people from Hong Kong look down on Muscovites. etc.



Yeah, but TO has it's own special problem. Every city in Canada looks down their noses at Toronto.  ;D


----------



## mariomike (7 Jun 2016)

cupper said:
			
		

> Every city in Canada looks down their noses at Toronto.  ;D



But as our emergency planners used to tell us, "Approximately ten million Canadians - one third of Canada's population - live within a 160-km (100-mile) radius of Toronto."  ;D


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## cupper (7 Jun 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> But as our emergency planners used to tell us, "Approximately ten million Canadians - one third of Canada's population - live within a 160-km (100-mile) radius of Toronto."  ;D



But we no longer have the Cold War and the nuclear threat, so no need for you to live in fear.  [


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## cavalryman (7 Jun 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> But as our emergency planners used to tell us, "Approximately ten million Canadians - one third of Canada's population - live within a 160-km (100-mile) radius of Toronto."  ;D


Which would explain PM Trudeau and Premier Wynne.  I think I like it better when those voters had to live in fear  [Xp


----------



## mariomike (30 Jul 2018)

FJAG said:
			
		

> Incidentally for anyone above that has/had the attitude that Torontonians feel that they are the centre of the universe; well we sure had the attitude back in the 1960s that everything that mattered in the world was situated south of the 401. Not really sure if that has changed any.
> 
> :cheers:



Probably not much,

"I found it interesting that those fire fighters with many years experience with a full-time fire department elsewhere were willing to leave to pursue there ( sic ) “dreams” as they put it and work for Toronto Fire. It made me feel a little bit special that I have been a part of an organization that others envy and want to be a part of as well."
https://www.torontofirefighters.org/wp-content/uploads/firewatch/Spring2009.pdf


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## CBH99 (31 Jul 2018)

Born & raised southern Alberta.  

Fairly multi-cultural.  I didn't learn French though...and none of my friends from BC or Sask did either.  When people from Ontario learn that, they seem to be surprised.

I'm biased, just because of where I grew up & what is familiar to me.  West is Best.            


I've never really "experienced" Toronto.  My only experience is landing at Pearson & driving down the 401 in what always, always appears to be a post-apocalyptic scene.  Every single time we land & drive to my grandmothers house, its always cloudy, smoggy, and those condo buildings NEVER END....LIKE EVER.  You can drive & drive & drive, and the buildings JUST KEEP COMING


----------



## dimsum (31 Jul 2018)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> Born & raised southern Alberta.
> 
> Fairly multi-cultural.  I didn't learn French though...and none of my friends from BC or Sask did either.  When people from Ontario learn that, they seem to be surprised.
> 
> ...



I'm born and raised in TO, but now live in Vancouver Island.  When I visit home, it's for the multicultural food, languages and cultural life.  If my family and some of my close friends weren't there, I wouldn't visit at all.


----------



## FSTO (31 Jul 2018)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> Born & raised southern Alberta.
> 
> Fairly multi-cultural.  I didn't learn French though...and none of my friends from BC or Sask did either.  When people from Ontario learn that, they seem to be surprised.
> 
> ...



Like you, I'm from the west, love the west, love big sky, open spaces and few people. Now living in Ottawa and the project I'm on I've been to Toronto a few times now. I cannot imagine living in the burbs and having to drive anywhere for work in that place, wow!

Great place to visit, cannot imagine any reason that I would live there though.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (31 Jul 2018)

I'm lukewarm about Toronto.  Sure I like visiting occasionally for sports events but I don't find the city all that great or the people all that nice.

I find Toronto is actually fairly devoid of culture.  Why?  Because all the different cultures in Toronto just blend together like they do in the United States.  

TBH I find all of Southern Ontario has a very New York State feel to it and don't really see much different between Americans from the Democrat States and Torontonians.

I much prefer rural areas to densely populated cities though.  Probably because I grew up in the bayou of Canada.


----------



## Remius (31 Jul 2018)

I lived in TO for a year.

Nice place to visit.  Great restaurants (I loved a place called Little Tibet).  Plenty to do.  I liked the markets too.  

But not green enough for me.  Not enough parks.  People move too fast and not very friendly. 

The thing is if I'm going to drive the distance to TO I might as well go a little further to Niagara on the Lake or go the other way to Quebec City.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (31 Jul 2018)

Remius said:
			
		

> I lived in TO for a year.
> 
> Nice place to visit.  Great restaurants (I loved a place called Little Tibet).  Plenty to do.  I liked the markets too.
> 
> ...



The green space piece is big for me as well.  I love living in a place that has amenities but is a hop away from green space or the outdoors.


----------



## Journeyman (31 Jul 2018)

So, we've decided to tear the scab off of this wound again?   :facepalm:

Posted there for three years;  I'd vote for "hate it."  
At the risk of being too subtle, Toronto would benefit from about 500,000 cubic metres of Preparation H.


----------



## mariomike (31 Jul 2018)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> I love living in a place that has amenities but is a hop away from green space or the outdoors.



Me too. I live in a very hilly neighbourhood with lots of mature trees and ravines. It is surrounded by two ponds ( Grenadier and Rennie ), a 10-hectare park ( Rennie ), and High Park ( 400 acres ) on the east.

Rennie and High Park have tennis courts, artificial ice rinks, and wading pools. There are full-day recreational activities including fishing, theatre performances, train rides, an animal zoo, historical exhibits, a restaurant and lots of fitness opportunities. 

The Humber river is on the west. Lake Ontario on the south. My house is about 30 to 40 feet higher than the lake. There are steep hillsides and ravines along the river and ponds.

It's an easy walk up the street to Bloor West Village ( "The final frontier before Etobicoke" ) on the north. 
There is a subway station, and "more than 400 shops, restaurants and services".

From there, you can ride the subway downtown. Or more often now, I take it two or three stops ( depends where I get on ) and hop the Union-Pearson Express train for downtown. 

For those unfamiliar with the U-P Express, it runs every 15 minutes 7-days a week. 
It's an 8-minute ride to Union Station downtown. Or, a 17-minute ride to Pearson Airport.

My neighborhood feels like a village. Because it was an independent village ( a separate municipality ) until I was 12 years old. That is when it was annexed by The City of Toronto. The town hall is now a community centre and library. There is a gym and indoor swimming pool.

If you ever find yourself in the neighbourhood, and feel like talking a walk, you may find this map helpful,
https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/8f16-Discovery-Walk-Western-Ravines-Beaches.pdf


----------



## FJAG (31 Jul 2018)

Lived in Toronto (mostly Scarborough) from '58 to '69 when I joined the army to see the world (aka Shilo, Petawawa and Gagetown). Now live about two hours west of the city and have found absolutely no reason to go back for a visit. Restaurants? You can find those anywhere and don't have to put up with a half hour of traffic or transit. Maybe the ROM; it would be nice to see it again.

 :cheers:


----------



## mariomike (31 Jul 2018)

FJAG said:
			
		

> Lived in Toronto (mostly Scarborough) from '58 to '69 when I joined the army to see the world (aka Shilo, Petawawa and Gagetown).
> :cheers:



As I said, Reply #176, you go where your chosen career takes you. 

Where I live, I walk to everything in the Bloor West Village.

When I want the big mall experience, I drive to Sherway Gardens. 

I appreciate the speed and nearby convenience of the Union - Pearson Express ( UPX ) train.


----------



## FJAG (31 Jul 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> As I said, Reply #176, you go where your chosen career takes you.
> 
> Where I live, I walk to everything in the Bloor West Village.
> 
> ...



Quite right.

I spent three years living in Ottawa right next to NDHQ so that everything was within easy walking distance. I thoroughly enjoyed that.

Scarborough on the other hand is a suburb where very little is a walk away. You need to do pretty much everything (from shopping to eating out to going to the theatre) by car or public transit. There are many neighbourhoods in Toronto (like Bloor West Village - let's face it any big city is just a conglomeration of small villages sitting cheek to jowl) that are true neighbourhoods in every sense of the word and (but for the cost of real estate) very enjoyable to live in.

That said; I'm not moving back.

 :cheers:


----------



## mariomike (2 Aug 2018)

FJAG said:
			
		

> There are many neighbourhoods in Toronto (like Bloor West Village - let's face it any big city is just a conglomeration of small villages sitting cheek to jowl) that are true neighbourhoods in every sense of the word and (but for the cost of real estate) very enjoyable to live in.
> 
> That said; I'm not moving back.
> 
> :cheers:



There are 140 neighbourhoods officially recognized by the City of Toronto, and upwards of 240 official and unofficial neighbourhoods within the city's boundaries.

They say good fences make good neighbours. Natural boundaries are even better.

Ours is the only Toronto neighbourhood to have a lake, a river, and a pond as it's boundaries.

It is also the only Toronto neighbourhood that has its own Town Hall.

Until recent years, as part of the annexation agreement, we were one of only two neighbourhoods ( Forest Hill was the other ) to have our garbage picked up from the doorstep rather than the curb.

About 15,000 people live here. It has the second smallest library in Toronto. But, is part of the city's inter-loan system.

It has the largest outdoor not for profit hockey league in North America.

There was a Legion, but it closed down a few years ago. 

I like its hilly terrain, winding roads, and many mature trees.


----------



## BeyondTheNow (3 Aug 2018)

I’m not a fan. I like nature, quiet, calm, forests and fields, and as few people as possible. Toronto is draining in every way for me. Being near the area, however, I have to put up with it when I go to the Denison, or when sometimes taking my son to Wonderland, downtown to the aquarium, heading to the Science Centre or if I’m with friends doing the tourist thing. It’s kind of a must, I guess. I take in a show (very) occasionally. I’m simply not a big-city gal.

That being said, there’s one area I really liked, having seen it for the first time earlier this year. I don’t know the name of the neighbourhood, but the area of Mt Pleasant Rd and Manor Rd E is lovely. I don’t want to venture a guess at the cost of living there, but it was charming. I went because there was a hobby store along the shopping strip, which has a nice, small-town, welcoming feel. I parked just off a main road and the homes were older but well-kept along hilly, winding roads. There were many large, full trees, well-manicured gardens and people just out and about enjoying their day. That’s about the best experience I’ve had in the city.


----------



## tomahawk6 (3 Aug 2018)

Years ago while on vacation it was suggested I go to the Monkey Bar.I did and it stuck in my memory to this day.That and the Hockey Hall of Fame was a fun trip.Plus our tour of Ft York and being jeered at by school children.Maybe it enhanced their national pride. ;D


----------



## mariomike (3 Aug 2018)

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> I like nature, quiet, calm, forests and fields, and as few people as possible.



So do I. 

From our house, we walk down to Catfish Pond ( aka West Pond ) and its spring fed marsh. From there, we walk down to the western beach boardwalk and follow the Lake Ontario Waterfront Trail System. There are pedestrian crossovers to the beach. Sometimes a nice surf, sometimes the breakers are pounding. There's a beautiful Roman-style "Sunnyside Bathing Pavilion".

We walk west across the Humber Bay Pedestrian Bridge into Humber Bay Park. 

But, far more often, we walk east into High Park. That's 400 acres. Over one-third remains in its natural state. There is a nice restaurant. Stop at Grenadier Pond. You can skate on it in the winter. You can fish for pike and bass during the summer. 

From there, we walk home via the Rennie Park Ravine.

After that, we can walk up to Bloor West Village. With more than 400 shops, restaurants and services.

I have a car, but you don't need one in the village. You can walk to nature, shopping, or the subway / UPX.

That's the firehouse around the corner ( The Legion closed after 85 years of operation. But, the original building remains across the street from it.), and people walking in our neighborhood. 

It's a nice neighbourhood for nature enthusists and people who enjoy walking around rivers, lakes, beaches, ponds and marshes.


----------



## tomahawk6 (6 Aug 2018)

Now Toronto isn't Vancouver at least.When I was there it was anti-American,this was in the 70's.


----------



## dimsum (6 Aug 2018)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Now Toronto isn't Vancouver at least.When I was there it was anti-American,this was in the 70's.



Vancouver in the 70s is a very different place than Vancouver now.  The online hatred is for the Chinese/Indians/whoever has the cash to buy a house in the GVA.


----------



## Xylric (7 Aug 2018)

I live in Oakville, just about 2 miles away from the GO station, so it's easy enough for me to get to Toronto on a whim. The things that I love most about Toronto are rather similar to the things I love about my home town, but there are a number of differences.

What I love about Oakville - built on a series of ravines (some natural, some not as mucH) associated with the 16 mile creek, we have a ton of green space. The measure I like to use to evaluate access to nature in an urban environment is trees per person per square kilometer. Given that Oakville has reported a total of over two million trees, that puts us roughly at 0.072 trees pp/sq (Or about 10.5 trees per person). Toronto, on the other hand, is at ~0.0058 trees pp/sq (or about 3.6 trees per person). Considering how much larger Toronto is in terms of both population (11 times the size of Oakville), and land area (about 4.5 times the land mass), it's pretty easy to determine that Oakville is a literal urban forest in comparison to Toronto.

I do seriously believe that Toronto could radically cut its violent crime rate by means of the mass planting of trees and doubling the available green space over the next ten years.


----------



## mariomike (7 Aug 2018)

Xylric said:
			
		

> The measure I like to use to evaluate access to nature in an urban environment is trees per person per square kilometer.



I live in the ( former ) Village of Swansea. There are lots of trees and water in our neighbourhood,
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=swansea+toronto+trees&chips=q:swansea+toronto+trees,online_chipsark+swansea&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH9uKZ5dvcAhUED60KHRr_C94Q4lYILSgF&biw=1280&bih=603&dpr=1.5

We also have many Sakura trees in our neighbourhood,
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=swansea+toronto+trees&chips=q:swansea+toronto+trees,online_chips:cherry+blossoms,online_chips:sakura&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQi_S6jtzcAhXC61MKHbbjB-8Q4lYIKSgA&biw=1280&bih=603&dpr=1.5


----------



## Xylric (7 Aug 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I live in the ( former ) Village of Swansea. There are lots of trees and water in our neighbourhood,
> https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=swansea+toronto+trees&chips=q:swansea+toronto+trees,online_chipsark+swansea&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH9uKZ5dvcAhUED60KHRr_C94Q4lYILSgF&biw=1280&bih=603&dpr=1.5
> 
> We also have many Sakura trees in our neighbourhood,
> https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=swansea+toronto+trees&chips=q:swansea+toronto+trees,online_chips:cherry+blossoms,online_chips:sakura&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQi_S6jtzcAhXC61MKHbbjB-8Q4lYIKSgA&biw=1280&bih=603&dpr=1.5



Yeah, I love that area - my brother and his family live not that far outside of it.

I'll fully admit that my standards are a little off - the region my mother grew up in had a score of ~23000 trees pp/sq. Namely because their nearest neighbor was 12 miles away through uninhabited wilderness. 50 years on, it's still absurdly high. Mom grew up on a 1200 acre farm started by three brothers (one of whom was her great-grandfather) so far back in the wilderness from Sault Ste. Marie that the family itself had to build the road. Utterly beautiful wilderness.


----------



## Remius (14 Aug 2018)

The Economist has just listed Toronto in the top ten most livable cities.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-economist-liveability-1.4784524


----------



## Fishbone Jones (14 Aug 2018)

Remius said:
			
		

> The Economist has just listed Toronto in the top ten most livable cities.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-economist-liveability-1.4784524



Liveable must mean the outskirts.


----------



## Xylric (14 Aug 2018)

The only thing keeping me from having a general positive attitude towards Toronto stems from my lengthy service volunteering with people with disabilities. Take a walk down Queen Street, and count the number of shops with ramps, as opposed to steps, and you get the general idea. My sister-in-law can't take her daughter on the subway very easily, because their nearest stop isn't elevator equipped, and it's far too dangerous for her to try to get the stroller down the steps herself (given that it weighs more than she does).

"Whatever you do for the least of these" isn't being done, that's for certain.


----------



## mariomike (14 Aug 2018)

Remius said:
			
		

> The Economist has just listed Toronto in the top ten most livable cities.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-economist-liveability-1.4784524



#7 in 2018

#4 in 2017

#4 in 2016

#4 in 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Liveability_Ranking#2018_results



			
				Xylric said:
			
		

> Yeah, I love that area -



So do I. Water is the natural boundary on three of the four sides. Hills everywhere in between.

Small, curvy streets, with no flat spaces, and very few straight lines. Three different roads named after Étienne Brûlé!

It's easy to get a bit disoriented, but it's so nice that you don't really mind.  

As far as the rest of the city is concerned, I've been retired for over nine years. So, I'm no longer current on most of it. 

But, I must say we love that Union-Pearson Express ( UPX ).


----------



## Til.Valhall (14 Aug 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Liveability_Ranking#2018_results



Way to go Calgary.

This bluenoser is driving past Toronto next time.  ;D

EDIT:
I heard that the 2003 blackout was 15 years ago today. I was in a swimming pool in Downsview, hot and humid as f**K at the time. For a few days after, I was shown a glimpse of a real SHTF scenario, but also how well everyone seemed to cooperate and carry on. Anybody else here remember the blackout?


----------



## mariomike (14 Aug 2018)

Til.Valhall said:
			
		

> I heard that the 2003 blackout was 15 years ago today. I was in a swimming pool in Downsview, hot and humid as f**K at the time. For a few days after, I was shown a glimpse of a real SHTF scenario, but also how well everyone seemed to cooperate and carry on. Anybody else here remember the blackout?



I do. Emergency power systems at Emergency Services Headquarters maintained communications and dispatch functions.

Our department activated its Healthcare Divisional Operations Centre (H-DOC) and declared a divisional emergency once the scope of the blackout was known.

Our Paramedics negotiated dangerous streets lacking lights and traffic signals, climbed multiple flights of stairs to access patients in apartment buildings, and carried patients down the stairs to the ambulance. 

Call Volumes were twice the normal levels in the first hours of the blackout and increased call levels for the next couple days.

We distributed portable generators and fuel to enable recharging of paramedic radio and defibrillator batteries in the service districts. We ensured adequate supplies of water were available for paramedics. 
Paramedics climbed the 33 flights of stairs at Yonge and Eglinton several times delivering cans of diesel fuel to maintain the portable generators for the radio transmitter.

Our  Community Medicine Paramedics issued two news releases during the blackout offering advice to residents on how to cope with the heat without air conditioning and asking the public to check on vulnerable citizens and help protect them from heat-related illnesses.

We activated Telecomm 1. Due to the high volume of calls, we did not respond to "stuck elevator" calls unless there was a confirmed patient.

Paramedics were mandated to work 16 hours on, and 8 hours off for the duration. I slept at HQ.

The trunk portable radio and the paging system failed and the cellular phone system was intermittently interrupted. 
Staff delivered portable generators and fuel to each Service District to assist in the charging of portable radios and defibrillator batteries within each District.

Our Emergency Power Unit (EPU) truck was deployed to Southlake Regional Hospital due to a failure of their back-up power system.

Our call volume increased by 100 per cent, compared to the week before.


----------



## Xylric (15 Aug 2018)

I had just finished high school, and was due to start college in two weeks. I will absolutely remember that day, because I was volunteering with my mother's class at a water park (4-5 year olds), and my mother dislocated one of her thumbs going down a water slide. The power went out roughly ten minutes after we got back to the classroom, when we were distributing the day's snack. I feel in love with astronomy that night, because I saw Mars with the naked eye for the first time (I'd seen it before through a telescope, but it's a very different thing to see it unaided).

My neighbour (who recently passed away) pulled out all of the ice cream from his freezer and our families made sure to eat it all before it melted.


----------



## mariomike (16 Aug 2018)

Other than 2003, the only time the entire city was blacked out during my lifetime was one night in 1965.  



			
				Til.Valhall said:
			
		

> For a few days after, I was shown a glimpse of a real SHTF scenario, but also how well everyone seemed to cooperate and carry on.



Toronto's emergency services remembered the one-night NYC blackout of 1977.

The mass looting that ensued remains the only civil disturbance in the history of NYC to encompass all five boroughs simultaneously, and the 3776 arrests were the largest mass arrest in the city's history. 

For whatever reasons, Toronto ( the city, including its five former boroughs of Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, York and East York  ) was spared that. 

Metro Police reported no spike in crime that night.


----------



## Xylric (12 Sep 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Other than 2003, the only time the entire city was blacked out during my lifetime was one night in 1965.
> 
> Toronto's emergency services remembered the one-night NYC blackout of 1977.
> 
> ...



I was just about to go into college when it occurred, spending the day helping my mother with a field-trip with her preschool. Amusingly, I remember that day less for the beginning of the blackout, and more because my mother injured her hand on a water slide. But I remember how it played out over the evening. The nearby convenience store gave out the ice cream it had in stock for free, as it was right across from an elementary school, and the kids were all local. Everyone gathered on the  field behind the school for the best night of stargazing many of them remembered (it was the first time I saw Mars and Jupiter with the naked eye).

I think the best explanation I have for the general lack of civil disturbance in Toronto during that power failure was due to both its oddly low population density for a city that size (though this is no longer the case), and the fact that the various communities which form Toronto were far more integrated than NYC. Looking at the map, the lack of major divisions brought on by major waterways in Toronto meant that we were far more likely to see each other as neighbors.

Though personally, I think it's due to the fact that we just don't *do* such things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the last disturbance on the scale of the '77 blackout in Toronto back in 1837?


----------



## mariomike (12 Sep 2018)

Xylric said:
			
		

> I think the best explanation I have for the general lack of civil disturbance in Toronto during that power failure was due to both its oddly low population density for a city that size (though this is no longer the case), and the fact that the various communities which form Toronto were far more integrated than NYC. Looking at the map, the lack of major divisions brought on by major waterways in Toronto meant that we were far more likely to see each other as neighbors.



To protect their communities,

"Men armed with baseball bats and tire irons marched to the neighborhood’s bridges and off-ramps like soldiers going off to war."

To add to the paranoia, '77 was also the summer of the Son of Sam.


----------



## Xylric (12 Sep 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> To protect their communities,
> 
> "Men armed with baseball bats and tire irons marched to the neighborhood’s bridges and off-ramps like soldiers going off to war."
> 
> To add to the paranoia, '77 was also the summer of the Son of Sam.



Oh yes, my grandfather spent time in New York that summer, and his descriptions of the city at the time is what fueled my interest in criminology.


----------



## mariomike (12 Sep 2018)

Xylric said:
			
		

> Oh yes, my grandfather spent time in New York that summer, and his descriptions of the city at the time is what fueled my interest in criminology.



I bet it did!

Back in the '70's, the Bronx was burning. Literally,

"(Burn baby burn) disco inferno
(Burn baby burn) burn that mothxx down
(Burn baby burn) disco inferno
(Burn baby burn) burn that mothxx down"

The day after, my partner and I watched the TV newsreels at the station. We were awestruck.

Being young guys, a small part of us was sad we weren't there to witness it. 

Because NYC made working for Metro look like Mayberry.


----------



## Cloud Cover (14 Sep 2018)

In part those problems fuelled the meaning behind Springsteens "Jungleland".

Anyway, this seems way off topic...
Toronto as a province- love it!! Toronto as the dominant city in a province- not so much.


----------



## mariomike (14 Sep 2018)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> Toronto as a province- love it!!



Unfortunately, 



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> Resistance is futile.
> 
> QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## Kat Stevens (18 Sep 2018)

Too bad. It would have opened the door for Montreal to be it's own province. Then we can just build a pipeline around them.


----------



## CBH99 (18 Sep 2018)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> In part those problems fuelled the meaning behind Springsteens "Jungleland".
> 
> Anyway, this seems way off topic...
> Toronto as a province- love it!! Toronto as the dominant city in a province- not so much.




To complicate matters even more, now that the Borg have spread so far throughout the galaxy (Ahem, sorry, I meant Toronto has SPRAWLED so far out) - what happens to all the cities that aren't Toronto, but are now somehow inside of Toronto?  What if they DON'T want to be a part of the new province, and want to stay Ontario?  What happens then?

(I f**king hate Toronto...allowed to say it, since that's the topic of the thread)   :threat:    :nod:


----------



## mariomike (18 Sep 2018)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> , now that the Borg have spread so far throughout the galaxy (Ahem, sorry, I meant Toronto has SPRAWLED so far out)



Metro Toronto's boundary ( 240 square miles ) has not changed since it was created 1954. 

Your profile says 41 CBG. That's about 2,700 air miles away.  I think you are safe from the "SPRAWLED"  "Borg".   



			
				CBH99 said:
			
		

> - what happens to all the cities that aren't Toronto, but are now somehow inside of Toronto?



Are you asking about the Greater Toronto Area ( GTA - Halton, Peel, York and Durham )?



			
				CBH99 said:
			
		

> What if they DON'T want to be a part of the new province, and want to stay Ontario?



If Toronto can't secede from Ontario, how could the GTA?



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> QUOTE
> 
> Report prepared by the City Solicitor, City of Toronto
> June, 2000 (updated October 2001)
> ...





> Just the ones with a propensity to dis the Ford Nation, apparently.



Like turning your backs on Rob. Or electing John Tory - instead of Doug - as mayor.

I suspect Toronto has plenty more bad karma coming its way from Queen's Park. 



			
				CBH99 said:
			
		

> (I f**king hate Toronto...allowed to say it, since that's the topic of the thread)   :threat:    :nod:



That's nice. Makes me nostalgic of when Metro had a residency requirement preventing out of town applicants joining our emergency services.

It was removed by the province. Another thing the taxpayers of Toronto can thank Queen's Park for. < sarcasm.

With so many out of town applicants, if others share that same attitude, what contribution will they make to the city? Will they receive any satisfaction helping our citizens? Do they want to become important, vital members of a community they hate, but are sworn to serve?


----------



## mariomike (30 Jan 2020)

From: "Case of Wuhan coronavirus confirmed in Toronto"



			
				CloudCover said:
			
		

> We The North.





			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> In a league in which 29 of the 30 franchises are located in the U.S., the Raptors represent the hopes not just of a city, but an entire nation.





			
				Furniture said:
			
		

> When you wonder why the rest of Canada dislikes Toronto, please reference back to the pretentiousness of this post.



It is a "quote".



> How ‘We The North’ came to define a team, a brand and a city
> 
> https://the-message.ca/2019/05/30/how-we-the-north-came-to-define-a-team-a-brand-and-a-city/
> 
> In a league in which 29 of the 30 franchises are located in the U.S., the Raptors represent the hopes not just of a city, but an entire nation—and “We the North” has become a fundamental part of their identity.


----------



## FSTO (30 Jan 2020)

I could (maybe) start supporting the Blue Jays and Raptors but until the media of Toronto show a semblance of respect towards the CFL and USports, they'll get SFA support from me.


Yea, who cares but I really resent the baloney of a Toronto teams full of foreigners representing the entire country.


----------



## Furniture (30 Jan 2020)

I think you missed the point...

It's not about who wrote the line, it's the arrogance of the statement. 

I get it, you've lived and worked in Toronto all of your life. You know nothing else, and assume anyone who doesn't like Toronto doesn't like it out of jealousy. 

The reality is many of us have seen the rest of the world, and have found Toronto lacking. Lacking in history, lacking in importance, lacking in character, lacking in pretty much any way that matters outside of being the biggest city in Canada. 

Congratulations! Toronto is the China of Canada, complete with being ground zero for pandemic viral outbreaks.


----------



## mariomike (31 Jan 2020)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I could (maybe) start supporting the Blue Jays and Raptors but until the media of Toronto show a semblance of respect towards the CFL and USports, they'll get SFA support from me.
> 
> 
> Yea, who cares but I really resent the baloney of a Toronto teams full of foreigners representing the entire country.



If you really resent a team that much, why not just change the channel? 



			
				Furniture said:
			
		

> It's not about who wrote the line, it's the arrogance of the statement.



Write a letter to the editor if it bothers you that much,
https://the-message.ca/contact/




			
				Furniture said:
			
		

> I get it, you've lived and worked in Toronto all of your life.



That's how it is for Toronto police officers, firefighters and paramedics.  The CAF was my part-time job.

Home for me is peaceful hilly terrain and ravines, winding roads and mature trees in our quiet neighbourhood surrounded on three sides by water. I attached a few pictures. The price of homes in our neighbourhood might surprise you. 

We travel to nice places on vacation. Especially since I retired 11 years ago. We can get to Union or Pearson in just a few minutes now on the UP Express. In fact, my wife is coming in tonight from Florida.

Most importantly, we travel where we want. When we want.

I can collect my OMERS pension in just about any country in the world. I can live anywhere in Canada. I have an EU passport, and my wife has a US passport.



			
				Furniture said:
			
		

> You know nothing else, and assume anyone who doesn't like Toronto doesn't like it out of jealousy.



Don't assume you know what I assume, furniture. Thank-you. Not unless you're psychic. 

What I do when I don't like a place? I forget about it and discover a new place. I don't whine about how much I hate it.

I know nothing about you. Except from your various internet handles and profile pic. 

I do know this: Our emergency services are flooded with out-of-town applicants who want to work here. 

You and I have engaged before, furniture. 



			
				Furniture said:
			
		

> Wages, pensions, and benefits fall under selfish.





			
				Furniture said:
			
		

> Congratulations! Toronto is the China of Canada, complete with being ground zero for pandemic viral outbreaks.



You can leave race out of it. 

Chinese - Canadians have made a great contribution to this city, and this country.


----------



## Furniture (31 Jan 2020)

mariomike said:
			
		

> That's how it is for Toronto police officers, firefighters and paramedics.  The CAF was my part-time job.
> 
> Home for me is peaceful hilly terrain and ravines, winding roads and mature trees in our quiet neighbourhood surrounded on three sides by water. I attached a few pictures. The price of homes in our neighbourhood might surprise you.



I'm glad you enjoy where you live, you've said it many times over the years on here. Sounds like a nice neighbourhood. 



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> We travel to nice places on vacation. Especially since I retired 11 years ago. We can get to Union or Pearson in just a few minutes now on the UP Express. In fact, my wife is coming in tonight from Florida.
> 
> Most importantly, we travel where we want. When we want.
> 
> ...



So you have lived other places? Cool. I made an assumption about your history, I apologize if it caused offence.

I mention Toronto because someone on this forum relates everything back to Toronto. I can assure you that outside of very occasional topics on the forum Toronto occupies none of my mind. 



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> I know nothing about you. Except from your various internet handles and profile pic.
> 
> You and I have engaged before, furniture.
> 
> ...



You seem to think you know me well enough to imply that I am a racist... Quite a bold assessment coming from someone that admittedly knows nothing about me. At least I kept my assumption to place of residence.

Toronto is to Canadian cities what China is to Nations. The largest by population. Toronto is also to Canada what China is to the world, in that it is the first place that 2019-nCoV was confirmed. That you decided to make it a race thing is entirely on you.

Frankly if you thought I was a racist you should have used a PM, this is nothing but an attempt to bully someone. Cancel culture at it's finest.


----------



## mariomike (31 Jan 2020)

Furniture said:
			
		

> So you have lived other places? Cool. I made an assumption about your history, I apologize if it caused offence.



None taken. I must be getting cranky in my old age.  

But, no I've never lived anywhere else. I don't say that with any particular pride, it's just a fact. 

That is because I wrote the civil service exam straight out of Grade 12*, and was hired full-time probationary a few months later.  

* Prior to 1975, you didn't require a college diploma to apply.  

Also, there was a residency requirement: 

You had to be a Metro ( within the City or one of the five boroughs ) resident prior to application, and remain so after you were hired.


----------



## CountDC (20 Feb 2020)

In fairness using Swansea as the example of Toronto isn't really fair as it is a small and unique area:

Swansea Village is the only Toronto neighbourhood that has its own community run Town Hall. Swansea is also the only Toronto neighbourhood to have a lake, a river, and a pond as it's natural boundaries. Swansea's hilly terrain, winding roads and many mature trees accentuate the storybook houses that line the residential streets of this neighbourhood.

Most of Toronto is not like that as the city becomes more high rise buildings with condos popping up everywhere and mature trees are moved out of the way.  Most of Toronto is far from your nice clean and tidy neighbourhood.  Walking and travelling the TTC on a regular basis shows the other side of the city - a dirty ugly area with a lot of self-centered rude entitled people that have zero respect for others and the law even when they need them.  Another record year for violent crime that I am sure will increase again next year, haven't checked but probably another record for hit and runs as well,  TTC bleeds money due to the large number of fare dodgers that bleeding hearts make excuses for.  Would be nice to walk more than 10 minutes or go shopping without running into a refugee that has 5 kids and needs money to support them (funny how they all have 5 kids) and have some driver try to run you down.  

Yeah, Toronto is not my favourite city either.


----------



## mariomike (20 Feb 2020)

CountDC said:
			
		

> In fairness using Swansea as the example of Toronto isn't really fair as it is a small and unique area:
> 
> Swansea Village is the only Toronto neighbourhood that has its own community run Town Hall. Swansea is also the only Toronto neighbourhood to have a lake, a river, and a pond as it's natural boundaries. Swansea's hilly terrain, winding roads and many mature trees accentuate the storybook houses that line the residential streets of this neighbourhood.
> 
> Most of Toronto is not like that as the city becomes more high rise buildings with condos popping up everywhere and mature trees are moved out of the way.  Most of Toronto is far from your nice clean and tidy neighbourhood.



Don't forget to mention, as part of the annexation deal, only Forest Hills and Swansea retained the right to have our garbage picked up from the side of the house, rather than having to haul it to the curb.  

I've been retired a long time, so some of you guys probably know the rest of the city better than I do, now.

All I know for sure it that there are many out of town applicants hoping to join our emergency services.


----------



## Remius (20 Feb 2020)

I lived in Toronto for a year.  Food, nightlife, the markets and shopping were all amazing.  Always something going on and always something of various tastes and flavours.  But like some have pointed out it does have a dirtier side to it.  But what big city doesn't?

I lived at Bay and Bloor. In a nice building in a surprisingly big apartment (950sqft) for decent rent.  While looking for a place someone had just been shot in front of another place I was looking at.  But I found the city weird.  On one corner something really nice and classy and right across was crack house looking thing.  People were indeed rude but I found that was mostly downtown with so many people trying to get to wherever they were in a rush to get to.  We paid a flat fee to a really helpful cab driver who took around looking at places made recommendations on where to go and not go to live (at the time he told us a lot of hetero couples chose to live in the gay village because it was clean and relatively safe by Toronto standards).  I did miss the green space a lot.  Yes there were some green "areas" but it wasn't consistent or plentiful.

I enjoyed the experience of living there for a short time but would never consider it as a permanent place to stay.  But that is just me.


----------



## mariomike (20 Feb 2020)

Remius said:
			
		

> Food, nightlife, the markets and shopping were all amazing.



As far as nightlife, it wasn't until after 2000 you could get anything stronger than a Pepsi in our area. The Swansea Legion was the only place that was licenced.   

That's our local dining establishment in the photo. Open year round. Serves Atlantic salmon. New York steak.  

Want a beer or wine with that? Sorry.  

Although not part of Swansea, Bloor West Village is just to the north.  It has more than 400 shops, licenced restaurants and service providers. 

It also hosts the world's largest Ukrainian Festival every year.


----------



## Jarnhamar (24 Feb 2020)

So, the Toronto Maple Leafs lost a game against an opposing team who borrowed the Leafs Zamboni driver to act as their goalie. 

Thats gotta sting.


----------



## Remius (24 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> So, the Toronto Maple Leafs lost a game against an opposing team who borrowed the Leafs Zamboni driver to act as their goalie.
> 
> Thats gotta sting.



From all accounts the fans loved it.  They apparently cheered every time he made a save.  Sometimes special things happen in hockey that transcends team loyalty.


----------



## Jarnhamar (24 Feb 2020)

Also read the dude was 42 and had a kidney transplant. Great on him. Hope he made some cash.


----------



## dapaterson (24 Feb 2020)

Apparently it's $500.  But the team is now selling T-shirts, and donating a chunk to kidney charities, and the governor offered honorary state citizenship.


----------



## PuckChaser (24 Feb 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Apparently it's $500.  But the team is now selling T-shirts, and donating a chunk to kidney charities, and the governor offered honorary state citizenship.


$500 and he keeps the jersey. By the player agreement they cant pay him anything else. Next day though it's over so now they're doing the tshirt thing. Hes getting royalties from it and remainder of proceeds to a kidney foundation of his choice.

He had the transplant 15 years ago, it's a great sports story.


----------



## Weinie (24 Feb 2020)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> $500 and he keeps the jersey. By the player agreement they cant pay him anything else. Next day though it's over so now they're doing the tshirt thing. Hes getting royalties from it and remainder of proceeds to a kidney foundation of his choice.
> 
> He had the transplant 15 years ago, it's a great sports story.



It's a great story period, and I saw his interview with his Mom (who donated the kidney) on US primetime news today. Salt of the earth, blue collar guy who seems like he would be a great fishing/hockey game watchin buddy.


----------



## mariomike (25 Feb 2020)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Swansea is also the only Toronto neighbourhood to have a lake, a river, and a pond as it's natural boundaries. Swansea's hilly terrain, winding roads and many mature trees accentuate the storybook houses that line the residential streets of this neighbourhood.



Regarding the pond. Although there is no Zamboni, it's 35-acres of natural unsupervised skating.


----------



## Jarnhamar (25 Feb 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Apparently it's $500.



Any idea how much the average Toronto Maple Leafs player makes per game?


----------



## PuckChaser (25 Feb 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Any idea how much the average Toronto Maple Leafs player makes per game?



Lowest paid guys on entry-level contracts make about $8200. Auston Matthews makes $141,800. That's gross, before taxes, escrow and agent fees.


----------



## mariomike (8 May 2020)

For our Ford Nation fans, two new films for your viewing pleasure,



> Mar 06, 2020
> 
> CBC
> 
> ...



and another,



> May 6, 2020
> 
> Jim Gaffigan to play notorious Toronto mayor Rob Ford in AMC series
> 
> https://ew.com/tv/jim-gaffigan-amc-series-toronto-mayor-rob-ford/



I retired before he became mayor. Some may be wondering how Rob would have handled this pandemic. The answer is, he wouldn't. Since he was not an employee, they could not fire him. So, they did the only thing they could do: As a matter of public safety, they took away his powers to govern during a State of Emergency. They kept him on the city payroll, but transferred his power to Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly.


----------



## mariomike (24 May 2020)

Saw this in one of the Covid-19 discussions,



			
				Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> The only thing I know for sure about Toronto is that they couldn't pay me enough to live there ... and someone tried once.  ;D



Considering the average house price, you would need a pretty big bank account to afford one.  

Canadian Cities Average House Prices April 2018

Toronto, Ont $766,000  

Montreal, Que $341,000  
https://www.livingin-canada.com/house-prices-canada.html

Lots of people want to live in Toronto,

GTA population ( 1986 ) 3,733,085

GTA population ( 2016 ) 6,417,516 - most recent year available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto#Population

After Toronto was forced to remove the Residency Requirement, our emergency services were flooded with applications from out of town applicants.

When discussing Toronto, it helps to remember there are 140 neighbourhoods officially recognized by the City of Toronto and upwards of 240 official and unofficial neighbourhoods within the city's boundaries.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (24 May 2020)

mariomike, don't confuse "a lot of people live in the GTA" with "a lot of people _*want*_ to live in the GTA".

They may not have a choice, unlike I when I turned it down. :nod:

Just sayin!  ;D


----------



## jacksparrow (3 Jun 2020)

Small town folks i.e. from towns less than 100k people will always be apprehensive about moving to / living in bigger cities 250k plus people for a myriad of reasons e.g. they're not trendy enough for the city, they can't handle crowd, they prefer to live where everyone looks like them, etc. The same way most people are scared to pack up and move abroad.



			
				Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> mariomike, don't confuse "a lot of people live in the GTA" with "a lot of people _*want*_ to live in the GTA".
> 
> They may not have a choice, unlike I when I turned it down. :nod:
> 
> Just sayin!  ;D


----------



## GR66 (3 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Small town folks i.e. from towns less than 100k people will always be apprehensive about moving to / living in bigger cities 250k plus people for a myriad of reasons e.g. they're not trendy enough for the city, they can't handle crowd, they prefer to live where everyone looks like them, etc. The same way most people are scared to pack up and move abroad.



Pretty interesting blanket statement about us "small town folks".

 :


----------



## Jarnhamar (3 Jun 2020)

GR66 said:
			
		

> Pretty interesting blanket statement about us "small town folks".
> 
> :



Yup. Small town people only want to live where everyone's the same skin colour.  :


----------



## Brad Sallows (3 Jun 2020)

I guess things have changed since the days when the kids couldn't wait to move to the big city.


----------



## Kat Stevens (3 Jun 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Yup. Small town people only want to live where everyone's the same skin colour.  :



I'm starting to feel marginalized.


----------



## mariomike (3 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Small town folks i.e. from towns less than 100k people will always be apprehensive about moving to / living in bigger cities 250k plus people for a myriad of reasons e.g. they're not trendy enough for the city, they can't handle crowd, they prefer to live where everyone looks like them, etc. The same way most people are scared to pack up and move abroad.



Most of the out of towners I met came looking for jobs in our emergency services.

Fortunately for me, when I hired on, the city still had the Residency Requirement.


----------



## Halifax Tar (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Small town folks i.e. from towns less than 100k people will always be apprehensive about moving to / living in bigger cities 250k plus people for a myriad of reasons e.g. they're not trendy enough for the city, they can't handle crowd, they prefer to live where everyone looks like them, etc. The same way most people are scared to pack up and move abroad.



Man, you are really pushing a narative and/or opinion eh ?  Why dont you just be honest with yourself and the rust of us and come out and say what you actually think.


----------



## Remius (4 Jun 2020)

People go where the jobs are.  And where the golfing is good  ;D

Plenty of people leave small communities to live in big cities.  For work, for school, for love.  In fact plenty of small communities are giving away land for people to move in and help stimulate their local economies.  Plenty of small towns hope to attract new Canadians and even see them as a lifeline to remain viable. 

In the Ottawa Region some smaller communities are growing so fast they can’t keep up with demand and want developers to slow down.  

Manotick, Carleton Place, Cumberland, Rockland, Osgoode, Greely etc are growing exponentially. 

A lot of people like the small town feel and be only minutes from the bigger city amenities.


----------



## Brad Sallows (4 Jun 2020)

Prompted by recent events, more companies will explore permanently mobile work forces (from home, and from satellite offices).  I suppose many people still have the suburban dream - a detached home with more than two metres between the next house, a skyline that isn't across the road and sixy metres straight up.  The problem has always been to enable people to work in the kinds of places they want to live.  I predict there will be some anti-densification now, just no idea how much or how long it will last.


----------



## blacktriangle (4 Jun 2020)

I own a detached home (in a fairly desirable neighbourhood) close to the downtown of a major Canadian city. It has definitely crossed my mind to sell while I can still get top dollar for it.


----------



## mariomike (4 Jun 2020)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> The problem has always been to enable people to work in the kinds of places they want to live.



Even better, to retire in the kinds of places they want to live.  

I've been retired for a long time, so can re-locate anywhere in Canada. I also have an EU passport, and my wife has a US passport.


----------



## Remius (4 Jun 2020)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> Prompted by recent events, more companies will explore permanently mobile work forces (from home, and from satellite offices).  I suppose many people still have the suburban dream - a detached home with more than two metres between the next house, a skyline that isn't across the road and sixy metres straight up.  The problem has always been to enable people to work in the kinds of places they want to live.  I predict there will be some anti-densification now, just no idea how much or how long it will last.



Before this all started we have manager in London England.  Another employee near Moncton New Brunswick both teleworking.  We were about to launch a pilot project to work from home for those that could before this all went down.  Our pilot went live way faster than expected lol.

We just got a survey asking us about our experience working from home and what treat might look like post COVID.  

This is a federal department.  Normally geography would be a barrier to working there but with a new normal on the horizon I could see the talent pool being expanded nation wide for some of these jobs. 

Think of a military spouse with more education than her partner who gets posted every three years being able to work (gainfully) from anywhere.  Or the teacher being able to bring their skills to remote areas.

The possibilities are numerous.


----------



## jacksparrow (4 Jun 2020)

Oh stop it...it's what I've heard from a myriad of small town folks. Comments like "too many people in Toronto", "all that traffic", "people living on top of each other", etc.

You have to admit, if you were born and grew in smaller towns, it's a big adjustment moving to the big city i.e. culture shock. No hunting, no room for F-150s, no wearing duck dynasty jackets, etc.



			
				Target Up said:
			
		

> I'm starting to feel marginalized.


----------



## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2020)

[quote author=jacksparrow] No hunting, no room for F-150s, no wearing duck dynasty jackets, etc.
[/quote]

What happened to being inclusive?


----------



## jacksparrow (4 Jun 2020)

Nice to have that EU passport, and the US option from your wife. It opens up opportunities for you for sure. Unfortunately, the wife won't be able to benefit off the EU passport as she is not a kid of yours. However if you move to the place in Europe and establish residency, she can end up with hers.



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> Even better, to retire in the kinds of places they want to live.
> 
> I've been retired for a long time, so can re-locate anywhere in Canada. I also have an EU passport, and my wife has a US passport.


----------



## Good2Golf (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Oh stop it...it's what I've heard from a myriad of small town folks. Comments like "too many people in Toronto", "all that traffic", "people living on top of each other", etc.
> 
> You have to admit, if you were born and grew in smaller towns, it's a big adjustment moving to the big city i.e. culture shock. No hunting, no room for F-150s, no wearing duck dynasty jackets, etc.



Well then if that’s what a myriad of people from small towns have been telling you, then it must be the gospel.  Not a single F-150’to be seen in the GTA, by-laws against Mossy Oak camo... :blah:

:

Your argument about big cities is ridiculous.  What, Toronto has narrower roads than Calgary (1.5+M)? Etc. Etc. Etc. 

I personally know a guy from Weyburn, SK who now lives quite happily in Toronto...and he even has a pickup, but your right, it’s not an F-150......it’s just a smaller F-250...oh, wait.

Feel free to continue railing against whichever big city you want to cherry pick, while you don’t condemn others...seems legit.  :not-again:


----------



## Kat Stevens (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Oh stop it...it's what I've heard from a myriad of small town folks. Comments like "too many people in Toronto", "all that traffic", "people living on top of each other", etc.
> 
> You have to admit, if you were born and grew in smaller towns, it's a big adjustment moving to the big city i.e. culture shock. No hunting, no room for F-150s, no wearing duck dynasty jackets, etc.



Wow, you just get more and more ignorant as you go along. You don't know me.  Myriad? How many is a myriad?  Take your bigotry and prejudice somewhere else, we're above that here, right mods?


----------



## jacksparrow (4 Jun 2020)

Pot calling kettle black eh. I like how you use that "we", the irony speaking for everyone else. First sign of a narcissist behaviour.

If I have to explain "myriad" to you, perhaps you need to go back to school.

What does your signature say..."that's how we roll in redneck land. I rest my case



			
				Target Up said:
			
		

> Wow, you just get more and more ignorant as you go along. You don't know me.  Myriad? How many is a myriad?  Take your bigotry and prejudice somewhere else, we're above that here, right mods?


----------



## mariomike (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, the wife won't be able to benefit off the EU passport as she is not a kid of yours.



Reminds me of the old guy who said, "She's too young to be my daughter. That's my wife!"


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Pot calling kettle black eh. I like how you use that "we", the irony speaking for everyone else. First sign of a narcissist behaviour.
> 
> If I have to explain "myriad" to you, perhaps you need to go back to school.
> 
> What does your signature say..."that's how we roll in redneck land. I rest my case



MOD POST......you are on thin ice Sunshine.
Bruce


----------



## Kat Stevens (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Pot calling kettle black eh. I like how you use that "we", the irony speaking for everyone else. First sign of a narcissist behaviour.
> 
> If I have to explain "myriad" to you, perhaps you need to go back to school.
> 
> What does your signature say..."that's how we roll in redneck land. I rest my case



If only...


----------



## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2020)

Target Up said:
			
		

> If only...



 :nod:


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (4 Jun 2020)

No need to pile on folks.....Mr. Sparrow can decide how it goes from here.


----------



## GR66 (4 Jun 2020)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> Oh stop it...it's what I've heard from a myriad of small town folks. Comments like "too many people in Toronto", "all that traffic", "people living on top of each other", etc.
> 
> You have to admit, if you were born and grew in smaller towns, it's a big adjustment moving to the big city i.e. culture shock. No hunting, no room for F-150s, no wearing duck dynasty jackets, etc.



Hmm....grew up in a town of 7,500.  Never hunted in my life, drive a Toyota Corolla (previous car was a Nissan Versa), don't think I've ever worn any plaid since my pyjamas when I was about 8.  None of my friends from the "burbs" match your description either, but several of my co-workers from the city have trucks and hunt.  Guess just seeing things in "Black" and "White" isn't just a small town thing...


----------



## Brad Sallows (4 Jun 2020)

It's good to generalize about people you don't know based on what you observe about how they look and behave.  Lends a lot of credibility to stances on certain issues.


----------



## Xylric (5 Jun 2020)

I love where I live (Note - Donovan Bailey, the sprinter, used to be a neighbour when I was very, very young) because when my grandparents moved into the house they lived in for 50 years (and was located a mile down the road from my front door), they were technically outside of town, surrounded by orchards and farmland. As I've mentioned before, it's a literal urban forest. I wish I took photos of it before it was removed, but in a small ravine near my home there was an eighty year old tree just above a creekbed, to the point where it only hung upright because its roots permeated so much of the small clay hill it sat upon. It fell during the late summer last year, as physics finally won out. Local news actually *briefly* speculated that there was an explosion, because of how loud the crash was.

The thing is, while I live in a moderately large town, my mother grew up in the back woods of Northern Ontario (to the point where the road is named after the family, since they essentially built it), and my paternal grandfather was from a little place called Amherst, Nova Scotia. I'd be lying if I didn't immediately notice a significant cultural difference between the remote communities of Northern Ontario and the smaller towns of the Toronto area.

About the only thing I don't like about Toronto is that the air stinks compared to the air up where my family's farm used to be (my great uncle sold it to move to Sault Ste. Marie for his health about twelve years ago), but in all honesty, that's about it. I've been to a number of cities in the United States... and I'd rather the Toronto air compared to them.


----------



## mariomike (5 Jun 2020)

Remius said:
			
		

> Plenty of people leave small communities to live in big cities.  For work, for school, for love.



In that respect, it's a "target rich environment".


----------



## mariomike (5 Jun 2020)

Looks like they are boarding up store windows on Yonge St. in anticipation of a weekend of mayhem.

Reminds me of the Rodney King riot on Yonge St. I read in a paper at the time, "Toronto today lost its innocence. "

Had to laugh because I'm not sure Metro ever was innocent.  I think my forebears popped their cherries on the boat coming over and never looked back.


----------



## Xylric (5 Jun 2020)

As a person with significant evidence that my direct ancestors were largely responsible for setting off the legendary collapse of Mediterrainean (can never spell it, really) civilization at the end of the Bronze Age, I am quite certain that there is nothing new going on with this unrest. Humans are essentially an invasive species in our own cities, after all...


----------



## lenaitch (5 Jun 2020)

I grew up in Toronto but was lucky enough to find a career that allowed me to leave it (applies to any big city) and never look back.  My work did take me back for a number of years but I did not move back to the city - lived a decent commute north - before I left again.  My dad grew up in the country so perhaps it was genetic.  He also worked for a time in Northern Ontario which might have cemented my love for the north.  My position was they could never send me far enough north to scare me (the missus not so much). 

I occasionally head down and don't really mind visiting except that the traffic and drivers are astonishingly horrendous compared to before.

I know folks who love Toronto, or any city, and never leave for any reason, and other who live there but still get out to camp, canoe, etc.  I suppose it's how each of us are wired.


----------



## garb811 (5 Jun 2020)

For what it is worth, my experience since joining is the "big city folk" have a much harder time adapting to small town life than vice versa.  This is anecdotally supported by the innumerable posts here and on CAF related social media bitching and moaning about being posted to places like Cold Lake, Wainwright, Meaford etc due to the lack of amenities available in a big city, yet I'd be hard pressed to find any complaining about being trapped in the big cities of Toronto, Ottawa, Edmonton etc and not being able to walk out the back door and hop on a quad or sled or whatever.

Grew up in a town of 3k. Have lived in places ranging from 5k to 33 million over the course of my career. Have been able to find something to love about each and every one of them.


----------



## Jarnhamar (5 Jun 2020)

Where did you live with 33 million people if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## garb811 (5 Jun 2020)

Not the small town of Toronto.  :rofl:

Embassy posting to Asia.


----------



## Xylric (5 Jun 2020)

garb811 said:
			
		

> Not the small town of Toronto.  :rofl:
> 
> Embassy posting to Asia.



Well, that narrows it down very little.  ;D

One of the things that I love about Asia is that their city layouts are almost alien, and have a beauty all their own. If you can tolerate the population density. That's probably the biggest hurdle, isn't it?


----------



## PuckChaser (5 Jun 2020)

And the smog...


----------



## Jarnhamar (5 Jun 2020)

At least the infections from these protests will draw attention away from the park incident.


----------



## mariomike (5 Jun 2020)

When I was in Grade 12, I saw a TV show called "EMERGENCY!". It looked like a job with a future, that was exciting and far from routine, with guaranteed security. 

So, if I was an American, living in "Mayberry", I would have travelled to NYC or LA to apply to their emergency services.

As a Canadian, all I had to do was ride the subway to City Hall.   

I met a good many out of towners who felt the same way about joining Toronto's emergency services, after the residency requirement was lifted,



> From the President of the TPFFA,
> 
> "I have been fortunate that I have been able to orientate several of our recruit classes and it was refreshing to see such a young class this time. The class was mainly Fire College Graduates and it also had members with past fire service experience. I had the chance to speak to some and I found it interesting that those fire fighters with many years experience with a full-time fire department elsewhere were willing to leave to pursue there “dreams” as they put it and work for Toronto Fire. It made me feel a little bit special that I have been a part of an organization that others envy and want to be a part of as well."
> http://www.torontofirefighters.org/OSS/images/firewatch/spring2009.pdf
> page 8



As for living in Toronto? Other than the women, I could take it or leave it. I am fortunate to live in a neighbourhood that some may not consider typical of the "asphalt jungle".

My sister lives in rural NE Alberta and loves it. I love visiting, and would be happy to live there.

The thing is, my wife happens to be Jewish. Refuses to live in, what she calls, "Elvis country". She loves to travel, but would miss her family and cultural connections in North York and Vaughn too much to ever move away.

So, here we are.   



			
				Xylric said:
			
		

> One of the things that I love about Asia is that their city layouts are almost alien, and have a beauty all their own.



Don't get me started on Japan. My favorite place in the whole, wide world.


----------



## Xylric (5 Jun 2020)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Don't get me started on Japan. My favorite place in the whole, wide world.



I know! They build with, rather than in spite of natural features and geography, especially in their oldest cities.


----------



## lenaitch (5 Jun 2020)

mariomike said:
			
		

> When I was in Grade 12, I saw a TV show called "EMERGENCY!". It looked like a job with a future, that was exciting and far from routine, with guaranteed security.
> 
> So, if I was an American, living in "Mayberry", I would have travelled to NYC or LA to apply to their emergency services.
> 
> ...



Funny, I grew up in the city but TPS was not on my radar, and the GTA regionals were just emerging with a lot of growing pains.  City mice wanting the country and country mice longing for the city I guess.

The residency requirement was trashed by the Charter.

Another post mentioned the problem with new military folks having trouble adjusting to posting locations, and deployed police services often have a similar problem.  I'm not sure if it is a bit of a hole in recruiting, but part of me wants to ask 'what did they think they were joining'.

I think you recently posted a pic of your neighbourhood and, yes, you seem to be a bit of an urban oasis.  If I had to guess, south of Bloor west of High Park.


----------



## mariomike (5 Jun 2020)

lenaitch said:
			
		

> City mice wanting the country and country mice longing for the city I guess.



Absolutely. Plenty of city mice wanted to work in the country!  



			
				lenaitch said:
			
		

> I think you recently posted a pic of your neighbourhood and, yes, you seem to be a bit of an urban oasis.  If I had to guess, south of Bloor west of High Park.



Yes. "The final frontier before Etobicoke."  You still remember your old hometown pretty well!


----------



## FSTO (5 Jun 2020)

As I grow older I lament more and more the election of the Parti Quebecois in the 70's. Montreal was our major city until then and even with the business exodus to Ontario, it still has a special elan that Toronto will never attain. 
Toronto just seems to be another cookie cutter North East North American City that is trying too hard to be liked by America. Montreal on the other hand is still and will ever be the MILF that will forever give us the dance of a thousand veils and couldn't give two farts what Americans think.


----------



## Furniture (6 Jun 2020)

FSTO said:
			
		

> As I grow older I lament more and more the election of the Parti Quebecois in the 70's. Montreal was our major city until then and even with the business exodus to Ontario, it still has a special elan that Toronto will never attain.
> Toronto just seems to be another cookie cutter North East North American City that is trying too hard to be liked by America. Montreal on the other hand is still and will ever be the MILF that will forever give us the dance of a thousand veils and couldn't give two farts what Americans think.



As a complete outsider, that is the best description of the two cities I have ever read.

Toronto: sad it's not NY, tries really, really hard to be cool.

Montreal: disappointed that you're confused by the scarf hanging on the headboard...


----------



## Jarnhamar (25 Jul 2020)

Child tossed from truck by carjacker who opened fire on police
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/child-safe-after-carjackers-open-fire-on-police


----------



## mariomike (25 Jul 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Child tossed from truck by carjacker who opened fire on police
> https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/child-safe-after-carjackers-open-fire-on-police



That was Mississauga. Not Toronto. 

If you are casting your net over the entire GTA for crime stories to post, with a population of over 6 million ( that was back in 2011 ), you should be able to find plenty.


----------



## Ostrozac (26 Jul 2020)

mariomike said:
			
		

> If you are casting your net over the entire GTA for crime stories to post, with a population of over 6 million ( that was back in 2011 ), you should be able to find plenty.



Agreed. While there are lots of criminals in the GTA in terms of raw numbers, there are many, many more law-abiding people, and on a per capita basis, the GTA is actually quite safe. Stats Can's most recent numbers list Toronto as 41st in the country in terms of violent crime, when measured per capita; Thompson, Manitoba is #1 and the only city in Ontario to even make the top 10 is Belleville (at #8).


----------



## Jarnhamar (26 Jul 2020)

Seems to me like the GTA is turning into a shooting gallery. Whole cities aren't on fire mind you but shootings are steadily on a rise. 

Editing to add: Have you noticed when it benefits an argument "Toronto" quickly gets lumped in with the rest of the GTA which is 6 million people and 7100 km2, so a pretty big deal.

When it doesn't, Toronto shouldn't be confused with the GTA who are essentially other cities.


----------



## mariomike (27 Jul 2020)

Not to play "house porn". But, this is what a million $ buys in Toronto,
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-toronto-house-just-hit-the-market-for-1-million-1.5040276


----------



## observor 69 (27 Jul 2020)

A Million $ isn't what it used to be.  :not-again:  Especially in GTA real estate.


----------



## mariomike (10 Sep 2020)

Baden Guy said:
			
		

> A Million $ isn't what it used to be.  :not-again:  Especially in GTA real estate.



Guess not. 

It sold for $800,000 over asking price. $1.8 million.  
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-tiny-toronto-house-just-sold-for-800k-over-asking-1.5072243

On the market for 17 days.


----------



## shawn5o (16 Sep 2020)

Toronto - the copy-cat city of America. Now the citizens are mimicking(?) the rioters stateside.


*Toronto mob swarm and attack police cruisers*

_Videos of the incident show members of the mob climb and surround officers who were responding to reports of stunt driving near the Toronto Zoo_

BY TRUE NORTH WIRE
SEPTEMBER 15, 2020

A mob of people swarmed and attacked Toronto police cruisers responding to illegal street racing on Saturday.

Videos of the incident show members of the mob climb and surround officers who were responding to reports of stunt driving near the Toronto Zoo.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1305622084060471296

“Three Toronto Police Service (TPS) scout cars were surrounded by the motor vehicles, and by others who were on foot,” a police source told the Toronto Sun. 
“A few members of the crowd climbed onto the TPS scout cars and began jumping on top of them. Others in the crowd kicked the scout cars.”
True North

However, the crowd soon dispersed when police arrived. How typically Canadian, eh


----------



## mariomike (16 Sep 2020)

shawn5o said:
			
		

> However, the crowd soon dispersed when police arrived. How typically Canadian, eh



Gotta love Progress Ave. and Kennedy Rd.  

This is one method of crowd control.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABBQw6Ffbb8

"The troops are on their way! I repeat, the troops are on their way!!!"


----------



## shawn5o (16 Sep 2020)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Gotta love Progress Ave. and Kennedy Rd.
> 
> This is one method of crowd control.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABBQw6Ffbb8
> ...



Are you sure it wasn't "the scoops are on their way!"?

Love those football helmets

 [


----------



## mariomike (27 Feb 2021)

What $3.5 million gets these days.









						Breathtaking house in Toronto famous for Google Home ads hits the market at $3.5 million
					

A Toronto triplex, known for appearing in Google Home ads and for its renovation from a traditional single-family home to a three-unit modern build...




					www.blogto.com


----------



## FormerHorseGuard (4 Mar 2021)

I lived in Toronto every summer from age 4 till 13 with my grandparents in Willowdale ( Willowdale and Shepard area near the park close to the 401) then to Downsview on Keele Street right across from what is now the former Officer PMQs.  Then I was on Class B for better part of 5 years at CFB Toronto. So I consider myself a kid who grew up in Toronto but went to boarding school in the Ottawa Valley ( at my parents home) . 

I loved Toronto as a kid, could not wait to be allowed to go off and explore the city  the summer I turned 12 on my own. I went every where, rode the subway  every Sunday night after supper till dark, just exploring the stations and the city. I enjoyed my  time on the Base from 20 till 25. I have taken my kids there for day  trips and events. But I have a hard time sleeping there now, the noise , the changes in the neighbourhood where I grew up. Nothing was the same, I did not really expect it to be the same and sound the same but wow. What was empty space one summer was a construction site the next, then 25 000 homes were built behind the apartment building. The local plaza is now almost as big as some malls in Ottawa.  The Jane Finch area was never nice but it seems to have changed and not for the better. ( Who puts a major University in a high crime and low income area?)  The subway system I need 2 days of just riding it to see it all again and learn how to get around again.  The downtown core is now so different and changed, not sure where to go any more.  I love Toronto, I will visit but never sleep there again.


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## PL90 (4 Mar 2021)

Never been there, would like to visit one day.


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## mariomike (4 Mar 2021)

FormerHorseGuard said:


> The subway system I need 2 days of just riding it to see it all again and learn how to get around again.  The downtown core is now so different and changed, not sure where to go any more.  I love Toronto, I will visit but never sleep there again.


Toronto has the busiest highway ( by far ) in North America running through it. It moves over half a million vehicles every single day. It's 22 lanes wide now. That's because the Greater Golden Horseshoe is home to over 9.5 million Canadians. Almost a third of the country's population. The 401 is the only free highway crossing the region.

The 407 helps, but it is a private toll highway, so many don't use it.

I can't tolerate traffic, and need my peace and quiet. Our area is hilly terrain shaded by massive oak trees. It's a  secluded enclave where traffic is so scarce there are no sidewalks. Exactly the way I like it.


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## lenaitch (4 Mar 2021)

FormerHorseGuard said:


> I lived in Toronto every summer from age 4 till 13 with my grandparents in Willowdale ( Willowdale and Shepard area near the park close to the 401) then to Downsview on Keele Street right across from what is now the former Officer PMQs.  Then I was on Class B for better part of 5 years at CFB Toronto. So I consider myself a kid who grew up in Toronto but went to boarding school in the Ottawa Valley ( at my parents home) .
> 
> I loved Toronto as a kid, could not wait to be allowed to go off and explore the city  the summer I turned 12 on my own. I went every where, rode the subway  every Sunday night after supper till dark, just exploring the stations and the city. I enjoyed my  time on the Base from 20 till 25. I have taken my kids there for day  trips and events. But I have a hard time sleeping there now, the noise , the changes in the neighbourhood where I grew up. Nothing was the same, I did not really expect it to be the same and sound the same but wow. What was empty space one summer was a construction site the next, then 25 000 homes were built behind the apartment building. The local plaza is now almost as big as some malls in Ottawa.  The Jane Finch area was never nice but it seems to have changed and not for the better. ( Who puts a major University in a high crime and low income area?)  The subway system I need 2 days of just riding it to see it all again and learn how to get around again.  The downtown core is now so different and changed, not sure where to go any more.  I love Toronto, I will visit but never sleep there again.



The Jane/Finch area started out just as typical '60s suburbia with some public housing.  As a teen I drove delivery for a restaurant and we would often venture into the area at 0200 with a pocket full of cash and thing nothing of it.  When York U was first built it was largely surrounded by fields and people wondered why they would put a university 'way up there'.

As kids, we thought nothing of going downtown late at night and just wander around.  If we missed the last train, we'd walk home - to Finch and Bathurst (oh, to be that young).


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## Weinie (4 Mar 2021)

lenaitch said:


> The Jane/Finch area started out just as typical '60s suburbia with some public housing.  As a teen I drove delivery for a restaurant and we would often venture into the area at 0200 with a pocket full of cash and thing nothing of it.  When York U was first built it was largely surrounded by fields and people wondered why they would put a university 'way up there'.
> 
> As kids, we thought nothing of going downtown late at night and just wander around.  If we missed the last train, we'd walk home - to Finch and Bathurst (oh, to be that young).


I was in TO from 1990 til 2002. When you went to Wonderland, you drove up the 400 through a bunch of farmed fields on each side, and then could see the roller coasters from miles away, which heightened the anticipation.

Went back about 5 years ago, anticipating/expecting that same feeling. Drove up the 400, with now massive subdivisions built on both sides of the road. Couldn't see Wonderland until we were about 1/2 a klick away, and then only the very tops of the rides. It has been swallowed by the sprawl.


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## mariomike (4 Mar 2021)

I think real estate prices will continue to increase because the Greenbelt is protected. That effectively turns Toronto into an island. 

Also the zoning laws. 

The future has arrived and you don’t have to go far to see it. Just look up. They call it Manhattanization.
​


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## FJAG (4 Mar 2021)

Grew up in Toronto (all but one year in Scarborough) from 1958 to 1969. My last time there was passing through on the 401 in 2009 when I moved from Ottawa to Blenheim. I live 200 kms away now and have absolutely no desire to ever go back (although I drove the same distance from Brandon to Winnipeg at least monthly). Not that I hate the place; I just couldn't be bothered. There's nothing there that interests me enough to put up with the drive.

🍻


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## lenaitch (4 Mar 2021)

mariomike said:


> I think real estate prices will continue to increase because the Greenbelt is protected. That effectively turns Toronto into an island.
> 
> Also the zoning laws.
> 
> ...


Although it seems the current government is trying punch holes in the Greenbelt.


FJAG said:


> Grew up in Toronto (all but one year in Scarborough) from 1958 to 1969. My last time there was passing through on the 401 in 2009 when I moved from Ottawa to Blenheim. I live 200 kms away now and have absolutely no desire to ever go back (although I drove the same distance from Brandon to Winnipeg at least monthly). Not that I hate the place; I just couldn't be bothered. There's nothing there that interests me enough to put up with the drive.
> 
> 🍻


I'm the same (about 160km).   The odd trip down to visit the FinL at the Sunnybrook Vets Ctr and to Lee Valley.  Left in '73 - was posted back from '83 to '95 but always lived north of the city and commuted.

I'm just not a city person.  Not even really a town person - haven't lived in one since '83.


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## Weinie (4 Mar 2021)

lenaitch said:


> Although it seems the current government is trying punch holes in the Greenbelt.
> 
> I'm the same (about 160km).   The odd trip down to visit the FinL at the Sunnybrook Vets Ctr and to Lee Valley.  Left in '73 - *was posted back from '83 to '95 *but always lived north of the city and commuted.


I was there from 90 til way after you left. Worked in Base HQ and then LFCA. We may have crossed paths. (sports, bars, mess etc.) Where did you work?


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## lenaitch (4 Mar 2021)

Weinie said:


> I was there from 90 til way after you left. Worked in Base HQ and then LFCA. We may have crossed paths. (sports, bars, mess etc.) Where did you work?


Sorry - OPP.  Haven't been in a mess since we hung around CFS Sioux Lookout in the late '70s.


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## Halifax Tar (5 Mar 2021)

After a particularly ruckus post match rugby "social" where as an 18 year old after having played my first snr mens game I had to be poured out of a cab at 8pm and swiftly carried by the scruff of my neck and then chucked on to my bed by my prison guard father, who I will admit had been patient with my growing rebelliousness.  But that needed it.  

I woke up in the morning and he threw a news paper and letter at me and told me find a place to live he will pay my first and last, my mother told me to go to mass.  Gotta love the Irish lol 

After mass I came home to search the paper and opened the letter first and it was an acceptance letter to George Brown College in TO.  Well I thought, I guess I'm going to college.  

I still had to leave the house to go live with my OPP uncle lol.  August rolled around and Dad had the Ford Areostar loaded and drove me to TO.  

That was 1998.  I learned so much in Toronto for that year.  Dropped out of college, hooked up with the Tor Nomads Rugby Club, they found me work in demolitions, butchering and bartending.  I had a blast in that city.  And learned allot of life lessons.  After a year or so I came back to Kingston and joined the Naval Reserve and the rest is history. 

I have driven through a ton going up to Borden and I still love the city.  I visit when I can.  But I do love big cities.


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## mariomike (5 Mar 2021)

Some of you guys likely know the old town better than I do now. But, up until when I retired, what I found interesting was becoming familiar with the upwards of 240 neighbourhoods within the city's six boroughs.


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## mariomike (6 Mar 2021)

Couple of growing up in Toronto stories my mother reminded me of the other day.

My mother gave birth to me at St. Joseph's ( and my sister four years later ). In those days mothers stayed in the hospital for a good seven days. The nurses were wonderful. Back then you could smoke in hospitals. ( It wasn't until about 1986 that they started banning it. That is the year I quit. )

Mom said, "The nurse would bring you and I had a cigarette here, a breast here, and you there. Then they took you away, and brought you back at next feeding time. "  

Another thing she reminded me of ( for what seems like the millionth time ) involved Metro Police. I was about 13, maybe 14.

I'm a lifelong gun owner. My mother's car was parked in the garage. The garage was dark, and her car had a black vinyl top.  I absentmindedly laid my Crossman 38T on the roof, went to do something else, and forgot about it.  It was an air pistol, but it looked like something Dirty Harry would have carried. Most of the kids I grew up with had air guns. We used to shoot in the ravines.

Anyway, mom goes driving off somewhere, it slides of the roof. A policeman sees it. ( I think he actually witnessed it, or maybe it was reported. )

Co-incidentally, there had been a recent bank robbery in the area involving a woman. So, I guess they figured she tossed it out the car window.

They set up some sort of "dragnet". It was not a routine type stop for a traffic violation. Took her into the station, went through her purse and the car. I think she came close to having a nervous breakdown that day.

She turns 89 this year and was still furious at me about it when she reminded me the other day.


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## Jarnhamar (30 Aug 2022)

Is Anchorman 3 being shot in Toronto?

Group Of People In Brampton Parking Lot Fought With Weapons & Police Are Investigating


> Peel Regional Police are asking for help from the public to share videos if they have them after many people were attacked with a weapon in Brampton over the weekend.
> 
> On Sunday, August 28, at around 1:30 a.m., officers said in a news release they went down to a parking lot at Mclaughlin Road and Steeles Avenue West, where a huge fight broke out between a "large group of people."
> 
> ...


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Aug 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> Is Anchorman 3 being shot in Toronto?
> 
> Group Of People In Brampton Parking Lot Fought With Weapons & Police Are Investigating


Maybe jagmeet was visiting again.


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## Halifax Tar (31 Aug 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> Is Anchorman 3 being shot in Toronto?
> 
> Group Of People In Brampton Parking Lot Fought With Weapons & Police Are Investigating



In defense of the _Big Smoke_, that could be Pizza Corner on a Tuesday.


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## dapaterson (31 Aug 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> In defense of the _Big Smoke_, that could be Pizza Corner on a Tuesday.


Only Tuesday?


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## Halifax Tar (31 Aug 2022)

dapaterson said:


> Only Tuesday?



After mass on Sunday too ?


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## Jarnhamar (31 Aug 2022)

Look at this fellow using a high-guard attack.

CityNews.  :03 seconds in
Someones been watching Kingdom of heaven


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## mariomike (17 Nov 2022)

lenaitch said:


> Although it seems the current government is trying punch holes in the Greenbelt.



Saw this about that this week.









						Globe editorial: Ontario’s Greenbelt is supposed to be a protected legacy – not a reserve of land just waiting to be paved over
					

Mr. Ford says his move will pave the way for the construction of 50,000 new homes, butit feels more like an excuse to allow developers to make a quick score




					www.theglobeandmail.com
				






> “The people have spoken,” he said. “They don’t want me to touch the Greenbelt, we won’t touch the Greenbelt.”



In today's news,









						They recently bought Greenbelt land that was undevelopable. Now the Ford government is poised to remove protections — and these developers stand to profit
					

An association representing developers said the GTA is in “the midst of a housing crisis” and more homes are needed to meet increased demand.




					www.thestar.com


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## Quirky (17 Nov 2022)

Almost unlimited land in Canada and everyone flocks to the small patch that is the GTA.


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## Good2Golf (17 Nov 2022)

Quirky said:


> Almost unlimited land in Canada and everyone flocks to the small patch that is the GTA.


🙄

…or Vancouver, or Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montréal, Quebec, Halifax…

Not everyone wants to live in Gibsons, Fort St. John, Weyburn, Red Lake or Rouyn-Noranda…


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## Kat Stevens (17 Nov 2022)

Anyone who doesn’t want to live in Gibsons has never been to Gibsons.


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## Quirky (17 Nov 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> 🙄
> 
> …or Vancouver, or Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montréal, Quebec, Halifax…



How is that cost of living working out for them? Good luck.


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## Good2Golf (17 Nov 2022)

Kat Stevens said:


> Anyone who doesn’t want to live in Gibsons has never been to Gibsons.


I’d rather live in Jordan River or Tofino, personally.


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## Good2Golf (17 Nov 2022)

Quirky said:


> How is that cost of living working out for them? Good luck.


Probably offset by the employment opportunities…


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## dapaterson (17 Nov 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> I’d rather live in Jordan River or Tofino, personally.


So @Good2Golf for Prime Minister?


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## lenaitch (17 Nov 2022)

mariomike said:


> Saw this about that this week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's funny how the timing of some recent greenbelt land purchases worked out, isn't it.  Even the tracts that haven't been farmer-owned for years, land developers know how to play the long game and that eventually, lobbying pays off.


Quirky said:


> Almost unlimited land in Canada and everyone flocks to the small patch that is the GTA.


Covered in mainly Class I and II farmland (well, the parts not already paved).


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## Brad Sallows (17 Nov 2022)

At three different points in time, I had managers who commuted one or more times a week to Vancouver from Gibsons, some other community in the outlying islands or Sunshine Coast that I can't remember, and a small community along the Thompson River canyon.  Advantages of WfH or fast boat services (no, not the one upriver).


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## Good2Golf (17 Nov 2022)

dapaterson said:


> So @Good2Golf for Prime Minister?


My Mandarin is pretty limited… 😉

(That’s said, Mr. Quantum Computer-splainer’s Mandarin apparently isn’t that great either…)


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## JLB50 (17 Nov 2022)

First of all, my wife was born inToronto and after we got married, we lived there for a number of decades before moving first to Oakville and then several hours north of Toronto.  Despite the great restaurants, concert venues, art galleries and museums, Toronto is becoming an increasingly inhuman place to live with its constant rush-hour traffic, a subway system that hasn’t kept pace with the city’s explosive growth, obscenely-high skyscrapers that create terrible wind tunnel effects and alienation, not to mention growing gun crime.  A few weeks ago we went downtown to stay at the Royal York hotel (to celebrate our wedding anniversary).  Over the course of the three days we were there we saw quite a number of not only homeless individuals but people with significant mental or substance abuse problems as well.  One woman decided to position herself in the centre of John Street, intentionally lie down on the middle of the road and seemed to be daring vehicles to run over her.  I realize that other large (and small) cities in Canada are having problems as well.  But it seems to me that the explosive growth the city is occurring is not being met at all.  Is it that developers have bought off the politicians?  Possibly.  Is it that the citizens should be paying more in taxes?  Maybe.  I obviously don’t have the answers as the problems are complex and interrelated.  Yet I do wonder if former mayor David Crombie, if he had had his way in the 1970s, would have helped make Toronto a much more human city through wider use of low-rise development, much like what currently exists in many of Europe’s larger cities. Still, that alone wouldn’t be sufficient.  I guess I’m not changing with the times but I sure miss the Toronto that used to be.


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## Brad Sallows (17 Nov 2022)

Toronto is terrible.  Terrible, terrible, terrible.  It's difficult to imagine anyone wanting to live there, let alone defend the place.  So sad.


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## mariomike (17 Nov 2022)

*Home Type**416 / City of Toronto**905 / GTA*Detached$1,634,000$1,346,000Semi-detached$1,206,000$944,000Townhouse$893,000$838,000









						How Much Does it Cost to Buy a Home in Toronto? - nesto.ca
					

The most populous area in Canada is still one of the most expensive, with Toronto real estate prices second only to Vancouver




					www.nesto.ca
				






> Toronto real estate prices second only to Vancouver.



For anyone considering buying or selling in the GTA.


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