# forced retirement



## monstron (15 Mar 2012)

First of all I'm not exactly sure where I should place this tread so Mods please move this if this an inappropriate place for this topic. I searched released, dismissed, retirement, downsizing, etc. with no real results. Also if I missed an important thread that has already discussed related topics please post a link. Now on to the meat of the story. 

I am 37 and considering entering as a DEO. I won't even mention if this is possible because that has been discussed extensively already. What I do want to know is... What is the general trend for forcing people to retire in the CF? I assume that I will probably be enrolled for basic officer training by the time I'm 39 or so (out of the country so security check will take a while). I want to go the full run and retire at 60 or more (does the CF keep people over 60?). Does the CF have a history of dropping people before they reach 60? The reason I mention my age is that the forces will probably be my last career choice (one that I have been considering for a while and have great interest in). I am not joining for the pension but I do have to consider my future if I get dumped early and have to find another line of work at age 50. I know that cutbacks would be job/department specific but any advice/personal experience in this area would be great. Thanks


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## 421_434_226 (15 Mar 2012)

The current Compulsory Retirement Age (CRA) in the Regular Force is 60, although this was raised from 55 in the last year or two. I have heard rumors of instances when personnel are retained past CRA although I do not have any proof of the matter so I would take that with a grain of salt.


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## AmmoTech90 (15 Mar 2012)

Compulsory Retirement Age is 55.  CRA 60 can be offered and has been offered quite often recently.  Just because it has happened in the past does not mean it will happen in the future.  There are different terms of service between CRA 55 and CRA 60.  On CRA 60 you are service at the pleasure of the CF.  I know most of the CWOs who are on CRA60 will be getting letters this year saying, thank you for your service, when you are done your current posting you are being released.

Do not count on CRA60.  Do not count on being offered IPS (Indefinite Period of Service) automatically in the future (not a concern in your case due to your age).  The CF is pretty much full and we have to start moving people on who have served 35 years (or so), or who do not show potential (going back to trade based, rank level selection for IPS offers).

Note: CRA 55/60 does not apply to Canadian Rangers (no CRA) and possible those associated with the Cadet programme (I believe that is CRA65)


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## Blatchman (15 Mar 2012)

Good Day 

CRA for a Cadet Instructor Cadre Officer is 65, I am unsure of COATS General Service Officer/NCM CRA.


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## monstron (15 Mar 2012)

So as long as my performance is good and there aren't any major cutbacks to the best of your knowledge I can pretty much count on CRA 55 and hope for CRA 60. I will also talk to my recruiter as well just to confirm. Thanks Ammo, Gizmo and Blatch for your replies.


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## dapaterson (15 Mar 2012)

CRA is not now nor has it ever been a guarantee of service to that age.  Rather, it is "when you hit this line you'll be gone".

Pers enrolled today are enrolled with a CRA of 60.  Pers enrolled prior to the implementation of CRA 60 were grandfathered with CRA 55 and may elect, before their 54th birthday, to change to CRA 60.  That does not guarantee service to age 60; it only offers the possibility.

From enrolment to release you will be offered various terms of service, which may be time limited (five years, for example) or indefinite.  These, in turn, must end when you reach the Compulsory Retirement Age.


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## Pusser (15 Mar 2012)

At your age, the most likely scenario is that you will be enrolled on a Variable Initial Engagement (VIE), which will be at least nine years.  You don't have to stay that long, but if you want to, you pretty much can (provided you don't screw up - badly).  Sometime before finishing your VIE, you will likely (provided your performance is satisfactory) be offered an Intermediate Engagement (IE).  Since they are normally 25 years and you don't have that much time left before CRA, there really isn't much left to worry about.

Yes, it is possible to serve in the Regular Force or Primary Reserve beyond CRA, but it requires either CDS or Ministerial approval, depending on the rank of the individual and the amount of service beyond CRA that is expected.  This is normally only considered for specific reasons (e.g. member has a specific skill set)


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Mar 2012)

Just to add, IAW Adm (HR-Mil) Instruction 05/05, Annex A, Appendix 1, TOS Sequence  (updated 27 Feb 12):

- DEO VIEs run from as short as VIE 4 (Legal, Pharm) to as long as VIE 10 (HCA).  

- TOS sequence varies, some DEO streams have a single CE, some as many as 5 (example Pharm has 5 x CE3), and some go VIE "X" right to IE25.


Definitions (from Instr 05/05) for the benefit of the OP:

CE - Continuing Engagement, means a fixed period of service of varying lengths that may be offered after any TOS, including post-VIE CE, post-IE CE, CE beyond CRA, or CE exceptions.
IE25 - Intermediate Engagement 25 year, a fixed period of service in the Regular Force of 25 years of continuous service.
TOS - Terms of Service, an agreement between a member and the CF to provide military service until lawfully released.  TOS provide a framework for the training, employment and personnel development requirements of the CF.  The TOS consists of two parts, i.e., a structure and a series of control processes.


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## monstron (19 Mar 2012)

Thanks for the info. I guess there is no guarantee that this will be my final career choice. As a late starter I need to weigh all my options. That being said I really am interested in the CF so worrying about pension doesn't really influence my decision to join it just influences how much I feel I have to save for my future. You were mentioning that different trades offered different VIEs. Would you happen to know anything about DEO CELE, ACSO or AEC? My guess would be that the VIE would be longer due to the amount of training they must invest in an applicant but I could just be talking out of my butt. As always any info offered is truly appreciated.


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## dimsum (19 Mar 2012)

monstron said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info. I guess there is no guarantee that this will be my final career choice. As a late starter I need to weigh all my options. That being said I really am interested in the CF so worrying about pension doesn't really influence my decision to join it just influences how much I feel I have to save for my future. You were mentioning that different trades offered different VIEs. Would you happen to know anything about DEO CELE, ACSO or AEC? My guess would be that the VIE would be longer due to the amount of training they must invest in an applicant but I could just be talking out of my butt. As always any info offered is truly appreciated.



DEO ACSO VIE was 6 years back in 2007, with a restricted release (post wings) of 4 years.  The RR doesn't necessarily fall in line with VIE; if you get your wings 3 years into your VIE, you still need to serve 4 years afterwards according to the rules.


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Mar 2012)

monstron said:
			
		

> You were mentioning that different trades offered different VIEs. Would you happen to know anything about DEO CELE, ACSO or AEC?



Same ref as before, TOS sequences are:

DEO CELE:  VIE 6, IE 25

DEO ACSO:  VIE 6, IE 25

DEO AEC:  VIE 6, IE 25


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