# Quality of life on ship.....



## CallOfDuty (18 Jan 2007)

Hey there guys..heres a question for you.  Who do you think has the best quality of life on ship.................the techs or the operators?
    I've been talking to some NET's and have been hearing some things about how yes, CSE is the best place to be on ship, but on the other hand, I've been hearing about how the operators have more staff, so they have more and longer breaks while off duty and as well that, while a ship is in port....the operators have more time to go and have fun while the techs tend do do most repairs to the equipment while in ports.
   I know its not a big deal, and we're all there to work....but to us newbies going through what seems will be years of  academics and hours upon hours of homework and study, we'd like to think it'll all be worth it in the end.  ( and most operators will get the same spec pay too)
  Any opinions?
Cheers guys
C.O.D.


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## Old_navy_062 (18 Jan 2007)

If you compare operator to tech, hour for hour on board, you will have more time off as an operator.  One of the issues for CS techs today is the additional hours spent ensuring that systems are ready for operations.  That's the job.  I would recommend that you try not to worry what other departments are doing (or not doing) and enjoy your new vocation.  Welcome to the CS comunity.


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## Ex-Dragoon (18 Jan 2007)

If you are worried about who has the most time off and who does not you are joining for the wrong reasons.


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## Rhibwolf (18 Jan 2007)

Try not to mistake time off for quality of life.  In terms of shift workers and day workers is more realistic.  Shift workers (both operators and techs) may get more actual time off, but its broken time and often punctuated with drills and whatnot.  Day workers "secure" at some point in the day and are usually off until wakey wakey the next day, but are always on call.  Quality of life is relative to who you are, what you expect out of the Navy, and what satisfaction you get from a full day of work.  To put this in perspective, as a day worker I greatly enjoy my "day worker" status, but typically, my day starts at 0600 and ends at about midnight.  I wouldn't have it any other way, and indeed I do have the freedom to take the evening off.  My case is not quite like yours, however, as I'm neither tech nor operator.  To put that in perspective, and to tie into what I said about who you are, I spin the following dit:
I was in the breezeway having a smoke one night at about zero dark thirty and there was an ex infanteer (now Navy) just finished his watch and about to go to ground.  One of his mates came out of the airlock and started complaining, "G** D***ed 1 in 2 watch rotation!!!"  The ex army guy said it all: "yep..... half the day off sounds pretty good to me." It was clearly a case of half full half empty, and one was happy while the other was not.   Its all up to you mate. Good luck.
PS: getting all (or most) of your sleep at once is never a bad thing.


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## NCRCrow (18 Jan 2007)

"Operators have more time to have fun and longer breaks"...LOL...(this is fucking hilarious)

Yes we do! Plus I get spec pay because I am an "Analyst" 

Did you hear about the new equipment that works by itself while the operators are having pizza and playing euchre. There is a chaff launching button in the Main Cave. 

We are a team the maintainers and analysts.  If the equipment is broke we work together to trouble shoot and diagnose the problem. This may include sentries and FC operators or going through the software together. Us operators are highly trained in UNIX/LINUX applications and can do some first line troubleshooting on our own gear.  

Life onboard sucks...do not join the Navy!! Plus we are broke!!

I am bringing a jerrycan to work on Monday to help out!


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## CallOfDuty (19 Jan 2007)

Hey guys...thanks for your replies.  I don't like to sound like a complainer,  but you know how it is....sometimes you just have a crappy day and every little thing can bother you.  We'll that was my whole class yesterday.  
  I really like your analogy Rhibwolf...."glass half empty or half full".....I try to live like that as a general rule everyday....glass half full attitude. 
Cheers all
C.O.D.


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## jollyjacktar (19 Jan 2007)

Some trades are better or more enjoyed than others dependant on who you ask.  I am in the Marine Engineering area, a day worker, we finish at 16oo hrs unless a problem crops up that the duty tech cannot handle alone.  Of course there are other distractions as well such as RAS and the like.  I am happy with my lot overall.  Many of the shift guys love what they do as well.  Each trade has their plus and minus.  For example when I am working on the blackwater system, it does indeed suck, but that is why they give me the Spec pay.


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## Rhibwolf (19 Jan 2007)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> "Operators have more time to have fun and longer breaks"...LOL...(this is fucking hilarious)
> <---snip
> Did you hear about the new equipment that works by itself while the operators are having pizza and playing euchre. There is a chaff launching button in the Main Cave.
> snip__>
> ...


HFX Crow - Yes, certainly. _ This "new equipment" is called "someone who cares!"  
Don't be an idiot!  
Call of Duty asked a decent question and you just demonstrated how jaded you you are.  Get over it or request an OT - the Navy is likely better off without you.
RW


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## Rhibwolf (19 Jan 2007)

HFX Crow - Better yet, simply get out.  Your loss will be lamented......somewhere, but given your last dozen posts, .....probably not....


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## NCRCrow (20 Jan 2007)

Chaff away!!  Thats means you! Sir (are u a shad O?)


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## Stoker (20 Jan 2007)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Chaff away!!  Thats means you! Sir (are u a shad O?)



You know there's guys like you who bitch and complain about how Navy life sucks :crybaby: and give such good "advice" to guys who are just starting out and there are guys who are positive and give the new guys some good guidance. I notice in your profile, you don't say much about your career...you talk like a career killick.  If you don't like being where you are drop in your release, the navy will be far better off for it.
Oh yeah, i'm a SHAD. ;D


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## flames9 (20 Jan 2007)

Serbved in all 3 branches, Reserve Infantry (time in Croatia), Reg Force Nciop for nearly 10 yrs and Aesop for 3 prior to moving to the USA.  Life on board the ship for most is pretty damn good.  1/2 rotation can be a drag after awhile, but for the most part it was all good.  If things are going well, I'm sure the techs have a lot of time to knit and sew, but when things crumble they put in a lot of extra time, as in most traes they were short of qualified people.  Plus they tend to be very busy prior to deployment, quite often working through the wekends while most operators were at home, that is if they were not on duty,lol  In the end, career as a tech is probably the way to go, as one can find work related jobs once retires, most operator jobs don't.  Now if you want true quality of life, put on the blue and go Aesop. Sleeping in a fox hole, was ok, sleeping with 50 guys in a mess, was better, sleeping in a Days InN with a pool and full TD $, hard to beat,and no duty watches,lol  Cheers.


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## NCRCrow (20 Jan 2007)

Your right, 

Crow


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## Sub_Guy (20 Jan 2007)

flames9 hit it on the head!

Although the sub fellas get the hotel with the pool too, we just cause an oil slick once we jump in!

Quality of life on ship is what YOU make of it.  It has its ups and downs, but overall it is good.  Don't listen to cranky old killicks!


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## flames9 (20 Jan 2007)

I enjoyed my time in the navy. Sailed on the old Kootney, Protecteur, Vancouver and finished on the Algonquin. Its not the ahip that really matters, its the crew, had a blast, even the techs are good people, lol   Buy a few beers in the mess and wow no Cinderella leave on OSUT,lol.  For some strange reason the Bosn's just wanted chips!!


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## CallOfDuty (20 Jan 2007)

Thanks for all your replies guys!  Bosuns and chips?  There must be more to that story...


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## kratz (20 Jan 2007)

My other half just replied to the post:



			
				HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Life onboard sucks...do not join the Navy!! Plus we are broke!!
> 
> I am bringing a jerrycan to work on Monday to help out!



If every sailor brought in a jerrycan (25L) to help out, one ship could sail for 1.5 days.  ;D


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## NCRCrow (20 Jan 2007)

I was thinking about that on a Tribal Class--303 pers x 25 L= 7500 L

For the record I have 12 years Sea Time Reg Force and not a crusty Killick. Have not been for 9 years. Still a bit crusty and provoking though!

I just hate different trades comparing work loads at sea. Analyst and TECHS work together and if you are not doing something trade related, you are being a sailor someplace else. 

If the TECHS stay late, I can guarantee you on my ship that one or two analysts are staying behind helping out in some capacity.

We do not have Cindrella leave anymore, its hard to tell a 34 year person family man/woman etc that he/she has to be home and tucked in by midnight.


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## Navy_Blue (22 Jan 2007)

I think I was one of the last bunch of people to get Cinderella leave.  2002 first foreign port ever Gibraltar and they set down Cinderella leave for all the OD's without there OSQAB.  Bunch of  :threat:  And i was the Mid 20's married family guy.  They really knew how to make you feel 12 again.  

Ah the memories.


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## Sub_Guy (22 Jan 2007)

LOL Cinderella leave... 

When I was an OD I never had that crap to deal with, and I know my OSUT package wasn't complete during 2 port visits to RR and that was back in 97

Its a nice way to make you feel like a kid though.  It was a stupid idea, probably brought on by some old crusty CPO who still has U-boat flashbacks.  I would agree with it if you had some dink who was really lazy and needed a fire lit under his ass to get the job done.

It makes no sense, for example if you reported to the boat on a Monday and sailed on tuesday, with your first port on Friday, how hell would they expect you to get everything done to avoid Cinderella leave?


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## flames9 (22 Jan 2007)

We had it during the Haitain vacation in 1993 on the Kootney. During the weeks transit from Vic to hawaii we had to have a certain portion of the pkg complete,  one had to put in a bit of extra work to achieve the goal, but with some hard work and beers, was easily achievable!


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## SoF (22 Jan 2007)

I hope I'm not steping off topic but can someone provide more information on the 1 in 2 rotation, I know you work 7, off 7, work 5, off 5 but I'd like to know what exactly people do in their off time.  It seems like the 1 in 2 can be overwelming, working half the day. So in your off time you have to eat and sleep obviously, it doesn't seem like there's enough room to do others things like relax and watch tv, shower, and laundry. I'm going to assume most people get up 30min prior to their shift, if thats the case then you will never get more than 6 and half hours of uninterupted sleep. If someone could share their own schedule for how they spend their time when off I'd appreciate that.


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## trigger324 (22 Jan 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> I hope I'm not steping off topic but can someone provide more information on the 1 in 2 rotation, I know you work 7, off 7, work 5, off 5 but I'd like to know what exactly people do in their off time.  It seems like the 1 in 2 can be overwelming, working half the day. So in your off time you have to eat and sleep obviously, it doesn't seem like there's enough room to do others things like relax and watch tv, shower, and laundry. I'm going to assume most people get up 30min prior to their shift, if thats the case then you will never get more than 6 and half hours of uninterupted sleep. If someone could share their own schedule for how they spend their time when off I'd appreciate that.




i'll let you know what i do off watch, mind you i'm a combat type and other ships/departments may vary somewhat.  i'm not sure what you are getting into.

basically, you can do whatever you want when you are off watch, just as long as you're done your cleaning stations, mind you, "whatever you want" is only so much when you're at sea lol 

you'll end your watch and go eat if you want to, but before you turn in, you will do your cleaning stations, that may take you a half an hour to an hour, depending.  then, if you want to work out and your ship has facilities you like using go ahead.  you can grab a shower, read a book, watch tv or a movie, play a game, go outside for some sun weather permitting, hang out in the cave and just talk to people, whatever it is you feel like doing.  you can even go straight to your cart.  but chances are you won't get any uninterrupted sleep what with the ship moving in a sea state for example or any number of reasons for that matter.  whatever sleep you get you take.  you adapt to that.

personally, i do my laundry on watch, although not everyone can, they often try to.  

i get up an hour before my watch.  that way i can shower, grab a snack or a meal depending waht time of day it is and then go do my thing.  that way i'm not rushed.

it took me a few months at sea to come up with that complicated schedule.  you'll figure out what is your best fit.


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## trigger324 (22 Jan 2007)

Navy_Blue said:
			
		

> I think I was one of the last bunch of people to get Cinderella leave.  2002 first foreign port ever Gibraltar and they set down Cinderella leave for all the OD's without there OSQAB.  Bunch of  :threat:  And i was the Mid 20's married family guy.  They really knew how to make you feel 12 again.
> 
> Ah the memories.



no, you weren't the last...ask anyone from Iroquois on the recent deployment about cinderella leave.  we had it 3 times!! :


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## SoF (22 Jan 2007)

Thx thats pretty much what I wanted to know. When I'm on ship I want to maximize my off time so I get enough sleep and don't show up for my shift looking like a zombie.


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## trigger324 (22 Jan 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> Thx thats pretty much what I wanted to know. When I'm on ship I want to maximize my off time so I get enough sleep and don't show up for my shift looking like a zombie.



oh, you'll look like a zombie...


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## flames9 (22 Jan 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> I hope I'm not steping off topic but can someone provide more information on the 1 in 2 rotation, I know you work 7, off 7, work 5, off 5 but I'd like to know what exactly people do in their off time.  It seems like the 1 in 2 can be overwelming, working half the day. So in your off time you have to eat and sleep obviously, it doesn't seem like there's enough room to do others things like relax and watch tv, shower, and laundry. I'm going to assume most people get up 30min prior to their shift, if thats the case then you will never get more than 6 and half hours of uninterupted sleep. If someone could share their own schedule for how they spend their time when off I'd appreciate that.



Your body will adjust and will adapt a plan.  The watch that is on normally wakes up the oncoming watch 30 min prior to watch turn over, unless you put a "shake" in at an earlier time.  When you get off watch, you have good old cleaning stations, each department has predetermined cleaning areas. Once their clean your usually on your own time to do as you please(read, work out, sleep, etc)  I would normally try to work out on the shorter time off.  As wel ltry and do the laundry while I was working or paid the laundry people to do it for me.  After awhile its almost like that movie groundhog day, all appears the same!!  Most of my time on the west coast was in a 1/2 rot, other wise it was 1/4, think did a 1/3 on one trip.  Best watch ever is a 1/2 modified where during the long 7 hr watch, you split that!!  oodles of sleep.


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## Navalsnpr (22 Jan 2007)

Techs and operators have very different roles on board HMC Ships, however the sailing posture will dictate how busy any given trade will or will not be. 

I lived in the NCIOP's mess during one NATO and they were complaining about all of the time I apparently had off while at sea (meaning I had more opportunities to go for a coffee, watch the evening movie etc while on watch). The only thing I stated is that I'd rather have time off alongside than at sea.... the discussion ended there!!!

Operators now (with the exception of the NAVCOMM's) get SPEC 1 pay, therefore there is little pay difference between the operators/techs. Additionally, whereas the operator courses (QL3/QL5) are shorter, they tend to be posted on board ship for a longer period of time and thus get their sea pay increments a lot sooner than the techs who do a 18-24 month QL3 and QL5.  Furthermore, operators normally get promoted much faster than techs do, thus more $$ at the end of the day.

Now, once you are at your 20/25 years and are looking for another career, the techs definitely have more job options on the outside than the operators do. Most CSE/MSE trades can easily go to their provincial "Society of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists" and get their CET certification with the trades training that they have completed on the inside.

There are many different aspects to this discussion. In the short term an operator trade may be appealing, but in the long term choices are also nice to have.

That's my 2 cents.


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## Sub_Guy (22 Jan 2007)

Techs vs Operators.....

Wait for MOSART, there will likely be a little shaking up going on in the Comms world.....

If we were smart we would have Techs/operators as one, kind of like what they had in back in the old radio days....

Life at sea is exactly like groundhog day!


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## SoF (23 Jan 2007)

Sub_Guy said:
			
		

> Life at sea is exactly like groundhog day!



I guess you have to do what Bill Murray did in the movie near the end; make the best out of the situation.

Couple of quick questions...What sort of exercise equipment is there onboard ship, more specifically weightlifting equipment?

Also...I'v heard about $1 beer vending machines onboard the ships, are these on all of the reg force ships?


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## Sub_Guy (23 Jan 2007)

$1... I guess the price has gone up


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## Inch (23 Jan 2007)

trigger324 said:
			
		

> no, you weren't the last...ask anyone from Iroquois on the recent deployment about cinderella leave.  we had it 3 times!! :



Huh? I only remember having it once, in Casablanca. Leave expired at 02:00 IIRC. Souda Bay was kind of like that, but you could still opt to take a cab from Chania after the 03:00 bus left for the ship. Every other port was leave expiry at 07:50.


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## Navy_Blue (23 Jan 2007)

Its one thing when leave expires for the entire ship at 2am or 4am or what ever.  It is quite another when your 24 or 25 have a wife a kid and are told that the you need to be back by midnight.  Meanwhile the pub your leaving has the other OD's drinking there faces off till sun up.  Only difference between you and them is about a month on a posting message.  Will never complain about a leave expire time I'll go with the flow.  Cinderalla leave in its original intent was not cool.  I do think they need some sort of incentive to getting training done and out of the way in a timely manner though.


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## flames9 (23 Jan 2007)

I think on the Kootney it was handled correctly. We had to have a certain percentage of the hands on stuff complete and so many of the lectures, was not a hard level to reach.


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## aesop081 (23 Jan 2007)

Thank god the AF doesnt work like that.....if i had to be back in my hotel at midnight when everyone else is partying it up, just because i'm not an A cat yet.....i would be one unhappy person


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## Navalsnpr (23 Jan 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> I guess you have to do what Bill Murray did in the movie near the end; make the best out of the situation.
> 
> Couple of quick questions...What sort of exercise equipment is there onboard ship, more specifically weightlifting equipment?
> 
> Also...I'v heard about $1 beer vending machines onboard the ships, are these on all of the reg force ships?



Groundhog day... but for those of us who do 1-in-2 watches, it sometimes feels like groundhog day twice a day!!

There are normally a couple of bikes and treadmills on the ships. The larger the ship (ie the tanker) then the more space is available for equipment. There is usually enough onboard to keep in shape.

Don't all units have a vending machine??


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