# Inquiry about the shuttle run



## R_Collins (11 Jun 2006)

I'm going to IAP under the ROTP this summer, and I know a certain degree of performance is required of me for the shuttle run. Problem is, because of a variety of issues, I haven't been able to try myself on the shuttle run since I first heard about it in mid-May, namely graduation setup in the gym followed by final exams disallowing me access to the only suitable gym for doing the shuttle run.

I've heard mixed things from people, that the level 9.5 required is not hard at all to get, yet others say that by level 9 it's getting pretty hard. Now, I'd like to at least prepare for it before I have to do it, but I'm not quite sure to what intensity the training should be and how best to simulate the 'stop and go' aspect of the Shuttle Run. Any suggestions for my situation? Ways to prepare myself or whatnot? And will I be sent home if I don't manage to complete the shuttle run the first try, or is there a retest?

For reference, I haven't done an extreme amount of running, at all. I'm currently trying to work on my peak running speed by doing short 1 minute sprints imbedded in a 5 minute treadmill workout in 1 minute intervals (9km/h, 12 km/h, 16.7 km/h, 9km/h, 6km/h). The only reason the treadmill workout is relatively short is because it's after a 30 minute cardio program (Pace program, anyone ever heard of it?) but I could easily do twice this amount though, as I'm barely running out of breath or anything after the 16.7 and especially not after cutting back to slower speeds.

My other current capabilities relevant to hte IAP assessments are 23 pushups, 28 situps/min, up from 2 pushups (in proper form) and 19 situps MAX back in February.


----------



## punkd (11 Jun 2006)

You must pass the shuttle run or you are released. You do not have to get 9.5 to pass. You must reach level 6, which is easy even for someone who doesnt run much. If you can do your 2.4k without stopping in a reasonable time (12 mins or less) dont worry about getting level 6.  Depending on your age range 9.5 could be the level for exempt (dont have to do the test again for 2 years) I know for me it was 10.5


----------



## R_Collins (11 Jun 2006)

punkd said:
			
		

> You must pass the shuttle run or you are released. You do not have to get 9.5 to pass. You must reach level 6, which is easy even for someone who doesnt run much. If you can do your 2.4k without stopping in a reasonable time (12 mins or less) dont worry about getting level 6.  Depending on your age range 9.5 could be the level for exempt (dont have to do the test again for 2 years) I know for me it was 10.5



I thought level 6 was for female... How fast is level 6 anyways?


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (11 Jun 2006)

http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/minimum.shtml

The stats on the link as correct for the EXPRESS test...voila.  Again this is the MINIMUM scores.

So just figure out if you are male or female  ( ) and your age and its all there!  

Mud


----------



## Zoomie (11 Jun 2006)

punkd said:
			
		

> You must pass the shuttle run or you are released.



That's pretty drastic and rather inaccurate information to be posting...  A failure on your Express test does not equal dismissal from the CF.


----------



## R_Collins (11 Jun 2006)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/minimum.shtml
> 
> The stats on the link as correct for the EXPRESS test...voila.  Again this is the MINIMUM scores.
> 
> ...



Muchos gracias. And of course, I promise I ain't gonna aim for the minimum. Aiming for the minimum is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot and handicap yourself later on. Any idea how fast Level 6 is though? From the descriptions I've gathered of the shuttle run, it's 8.5 km/h starting increasing .5 km/h per level/minute, so level 6 would be about 11.5km/h. I can do that rather easily, but of course I'm gonna continue pushing myself to run faster and longer.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (11 Jun 2006)

That sounds about right.  I have my EXPRES in a week or so, if I think of it, I will ask them. (PSP staff)


----------



## punkd (14 Jun 2006)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> That's pretty drastic and rather inaccurate information to be posting...  A failure on your Express test does not equal dismissal from the CF.



Correct a failure on the express does not equal a release, a failure on the SHUTTLE RUN itself does equal a release. this is a fact.
IF you do not reach the level 6 required (don't stress, its not hard to get) you will be released, I had someone fail my BMQ because of this. (march ,2006)
it is drastic, but this is how they are doing it now.


----------



## ReadyandWilling (14 Jun 2006)

I was just wondering what the shuttle run is??


----------



## Gramps (14 Jun 2006)

punkd said:
			
		

> Correct a failure on the express does not equal a release, a failure on the SHUTTLE RUN itself does equal a release. this is a fact.
> IF you do not reach the level 6 required (don't stress, its not hard to get) you will be released, I had someone fail my BMQ because of this. (march ,2006)
> it is drastic, but this is how they are doing it now.



Is it a fact? Well, if it is then there are a lot of people that will be getting released this year. For the most part if one fails the shuttle run they generally are put on remedial PT and given one or more chances to re-test. I have seen it happen and I have yet to see anyone get released for a first time failure on it. Cheers.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (14 Jun 2006)

punkd said:
			
		

> Correct a failure on the express does not equal a release, a failure on the SHUTTLE RUN itself does equal a release. this is a fact.
> IF you do not reach the level 6 required (don't stress, its not hard to get) you will be released, I had someone fail my BMQ because of this. (march ,2006)
> it is drastic, but this is how they are doing it now.



Horse crap.  It lleads to "further action" not an automatic release.  Please post facts only.


----------



## punkd (14 Jun 2006)

Ok, not too argue with people who I know have more experience and knowledge than me. But during BMQ a failure on the shuttle run is a release now, they stressed this to us, and more than that we lost someone to this for not being able to complete level 6. This could be very different for the current members of the CF but as for new recruits this is how they did it in St Jean this year.


----------



## kincanucks (14 Jun 2006)

Lets not confuse what happens during IAP and BMQ with what happens with service life after you have successfully completed these courses.  As punkd has stated if a recruit fails the VO2 test they are released, end of story.


----------



## 392 (14 Jun 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> As punkd has stated if a recruit fails the VO2 test they are released, end of story.



I don't know exactly who in the recruiting system implemented this "fact", but they are indeed going against a DAOD that is VERY explicit on what can and cannot be done if a member doesn't meet the MPFS. Release is not an option for any CF member who fails the MPFS until a whole slew of other evaluations are completed first. If you click here, and go about half way down the page till you hit "Administrative Process for Proficiency Failure", you will see what steps have to be taken before release is recommended. Note that "proficiency failure" is pretty much equal to "out of shape" or "lack of PT", and not "medical reasons".

I'm not trying to start or fan a flame war, but those are the "hard" facts ref PT testing. Although they may not know it, a recruit who is released for failing the EXPRES evaluation the *first time around* has some very valid grounds for redress. If they have failed numerous times, and the appropriate steps have been taken (VW, RW, C&P, etc.) then by all means, "see you later".

BTW, failure of any one portion of the CF EXPRES Evaluation constitutes a failure of the entire thing; if you really want to get technical....


----------



## kincanucks (14 Jun 2006)

392 said:
			
		

> I don't know exactly who in the recruiting system implemented this "fact", but they are indeed going against a DAOD that is VERY explicit on what can and cannot be done if a member doesn't meet the MPFS. Release is not an option for any CF member who fails the MPFS until a whole slew of other evaluations are completed first. If you click here, and go about half way down the page till you hit "Administrative Process for Proficiency Failure", you will see what steps have to be taken before release is recommended. Note that "proficiency failure" is pretty much equal to "out of shape" or "lack of PT", and not "medical reasons".
> 
> I'm not trying to start or fan a flame war, but those are the "hard" facts ref PT testing. Although they may not know it, a recruit who is released for failing the EXPRES evaluation the *first time around* has some very valid grounds for redress. If they have failed numerous times, and the appropriate steps have been taken (VW, RW, C&P, etc.) then by all means, "see you later".
> 
> BTW, failure of any one portion of the CF EXPRES Evaluation constitutes a failure of the entire thing; if you really want to get technical....



This is what happens at CFLRS and if a recruit fails a component of the training they can be released and one of those components is the shuttle run.  In what military are you in where you think a person who hasn't even passed BMQ is entitled to the same treatment as anyone else in the CF?


----------



## 392 (14 Jun 2006)

Sorry, the ref I provided doesn't discriminate between Recruit or CWO - one standard only. It's one thing to scare them with misinformation to get them to work harder or play mind-games with them, but you cannot jump to releasing them for not meeting the minimum standard the first time around just "because" St Jean decided one day to implement something like that. 
If you really want to get technical, failing a component of training entitles a member to a "re-test" a certain amount of hours or days later (depending on the school) - not automatic release. Repetitive failure constitutes PRB's, CRB's, etc. prior to recommendation for release. Not to mention the fact that a Course NCO or Course Officer should be rectifying poor PT levels at every opportunity to avoid having out of shape troops. 

Besides, do recruits these days not have to meet the MPFS *before* being accepted?

Anyway, the ref that is CF standard is there - I didn't write it, but there it is anyway....


----------



## kincanucks (14 Jun 2006)

The requirement for a recruit to pass all components of recruit training is nothing new.  I don't know why you have picked this as your crusade but the fact remains the requirement is there and the consequence of failure is there.


----------



## 392 (14 Jun 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> The requirement for a recruit to pass all components of recruit training is nothing new.  I don't know why you have picked this as your crusade but the fact remains the requirement is there and the consequence of failure is there.



I'm not arguing the fact that they have to pass all components. I'm calling BS on your "fact" that if a recruit fails the 20 MSR, they are automatically released with none of the required steps being taken. 

I wouldn't exactly call my 3 posts on this subject, including this one, a crusade - but it does irk me when I see young soldiers getting f*cked around by leadership that likes to think their point of view is "how it is" when there is clear direction on how to proceed for problems like this. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, but I'm only posting facts.....


----------



## govenor_mac (14 Jun 2006)

Ok people.....HERE is a FACT. My son DIDNOT pass the run  in the endurance test on the 4th day of Basic(4.5 / 6). He is now in his second month in pat platoon and doing his fouth week of remedial training. He is passing it every Friday and doing better each time. He can't wait for basic to start which he is told is Sept. He even has a personal trainer lined up for the summer. CF is always there to help their recruits if they want to be helped.


----------



## R_Collins (14 Jun 2006)

While the issue is something that still needs to be sorted out, I don't think it's a big concern for me. I tested myself today on a treadmill, 1% grade, starting at 8.5km/h and ranking up .5km/h every minute, and I got to 12.0km/h after 8 minutes without it winding me much at all, which would be the equivalent of level 8. Would have gone further if the treadmill didn't crap out on me. I know this isn't a stop and go, like the shuttle run is, but I should be able to train myself well enough in the next week and a half with this cardio so that I'll be sufficient.

By the way, the inquiry was with regards to the IAP under the ROTP program, if people missed that and/or it makes any difference, and I've already been sworn in.


----------



## punkd (15 Jun 2006)

R_Collins said:
			
		

> While the issue is something that still needs to be sorted out, I don't think it's a big concern for me. I tested myself today on a treadmill, 1% grade, starting at 8.5km/h and ranking up .5km/h every minute, and I got to 12.0km/h after 8 minutes without it winding me much at all, which would be the equivalent of level 8. Would have gone further if the treadmill didn't crap out on me. I know this isn't a stop and go, like the shuttle run is, but I should be able to train myself well enough in the next week and a half with this cardio so that I'll be sufficient.
> 
> By the way, the inquiry was with regards to the IAP under the ROTP program, if people missed that and/or it makes any difference, and I've already been sworn in.



Doesn't sound like you have much to worry about, I wouldnt stress over it. Train as much as you can before you go, instead of aiming for a pass aim for the exempt level... depending on your age (Mine was level 10.5 im 21 .. i think it was like 19-22 or something similiar) then from there you have to score a total of roughly 175 points.. handgrip, pushups and situps combined.. its not hard to obtain, just remember to push yourself!


----------



## kincanucks (15 Jun 2006)

govenor_mac said:
			
		

> Ok people.....HERE is a FACT. My son DIDNOT pass the run  in the endurance test on the 4th day of Basic(4.5 / 6). He is now in his second month in pat platoon and doing his fouth week of remedial training. He is passing it every Friday and doing better each time. He can't wait for basic to start which he is told is Sept. He even has a personal trainer lined up for the summer. CF is always there to help their recruits if they want to be helped.



Well there you go.


----------

