# Navy considers contracting tug boat serivices on both coasts



## jollyjacktar (11 Jan 2016)

I wonder if this is a bit of a response to some sub standard service delivery as of late.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-tugboats-services-outsource-1.3399076


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## PuckChaser (11 Jan 2016)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I wonder if this is a bit of a response to some sub standard service delivery as of late.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-tugboats-services-outsource-1.3399076



Seems like a good cost-saving measure, and a way to get some PYs freed up for actual operational sailing.


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## dapaterson (11 Jan 2016)

AFAIK, the overwhelming majority of tug crews are civilians, not military.


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## FSTO (12 Jan 2016)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I wonder if this is a bit of a response to some sub standard service delivery as of late.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-tugboats-services-outsource-1.3399076



I think it is more to do with how astern of station the tug replacement project is. You would think that the amount of commercial tug types that are out there that it would be pretty easy to get a replacement. But this is Canada we are talking about.


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## quadrapiper (12 Jan 2016)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I think it is more to do with how astern of station the tug replacement project is. You would think that the amount of commercial tug types that are out there that it would be pretty easy to get a replacement. But this is Canada we are talking about.


Wonder if the secondary firefighting capability on the Glens isn't present in otherwise comparable COTS designs.


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## chrisf (12 Jan 2016)

You can pick up a modern tug with a fire monitor and foam system no problem, it's a fairly common feature.

I saw one of the existing tugs for the first time a few months ago, would not have guessed they were built in '75, bridge looks much more modern, would have guessed early 90s, did they have the bridge rebuilt at some point??


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jan 2016)

More from the bid posting here (also attached in case link doesn't work):


> ... Background
> 
> The Department of National Defence (DND) is currently developing a businesscase analysis related to the replacement of its fleet of large tugs and fireboats currently deployed in both HMC Dockyards Halifax in Nova Scotia (MARLANT) and Esquimalt in British Columbia (MARPAC). The large tug fleet is comprised of the five Glen Class tugs and the two Fire Class tugs. The objective of the business case is to assess the operational and fiscal impacts of adopting alternate service delivery for tug services. The intent of this Price and Availability (P&A) enquiry is to identify the availability and budgetary costs for the provision of tug and fireboat services within the commercial market.    ...


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Jan 2016)

they were nice tugs when they came out. As I recall they are run by Marine Services, I tried looking up their terms of Service, but can't even find a mention of them. I believe they are all PSAC employees and many of them ex-navy.

On the west coast, the chances are if you contract this out, you likely end up with the same tugs painted a different colour and crew that rotates and needs to familiarized again and again. Unless the contract is given out for 10+ years, no one is going to purchase a new tug to service this contract and will likely buy the ex-navy ones as they hit crown assets. Most of the tug and barge fleet here is 25+ years old.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (12 Jan 2016)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I saw one of the existing tugs for the first time a few months ago, would not have guessed they were built in '75, bridge looks much more modern, would have guessed early 90s, did they have the bridge rebuilt at some point??



They always looked like that, but yes, they looked pretty cool when we just got them. I believe they were the first  tugs equipped with Voigt Schneider Cycloidal propulsion in Canada (a System that let the tug go in any direction without changing its heading), which explains the need for a "control tower" style of bridge.



			
				Colin P said:
			
		

> they were nice tugs when they came out. As I recall they are run by Marine Services, I tried looking up their terms of Service, but can't even find a mention of them. I believe they are all PSAC employees and many of them ex-navy.
> 
> On the west coast, the chances are if you contract this out, you likely end up with the same tugs painted a different colour and crew that rotates and needs to familiarized again and again. Unless the contract is given out for 10+ years, no one is going to purchase a new tug to service this contract and will likely buy the ex-navy ones as they hit crown assets. Most of the tug and barge fleet here is 25+ years old.



They are not run by Transport Canada if that is what you mean by "Marine Services". They are in fact run by the Canadian Forces Auxiliary Vessels (CFAV) organization.

And whoever gets the contract on the West Coast (if ever let out - I am sure they will first look at the cost of running the existing service and the cost of shutting it down, if contracted out, to compare and see if internal is more economical or not.) could not use the same tugs repainted. The call for tender clearly states that the tugs must be no older than 5 years old, and have a power of 40 tons bollard pull or the equivalent 4000 BHP, which is double the power of the Glens.

I am sure there is at least one company interested in biding on this. In Quebec city, Groupe Ocean not only runs tug services, but has a local shipyard build them. They are very nice, modern tugs, and the yard has international sales with very satisfied customers as a result. They actually recently built the most powerful tug ever built on the East Coast of  Canada, with a rating of 8100 BHP and a bollard pull rating of 100 metric tons, both figures way in excess of those called for in this tender.

I am sure Groupe Ocean would have no problem acquiring extras, manning them and, if the contract is not renewed, bring them back for service on the river (you need pretty powerful tugs on the St Lawrence river, especially around Quebec and the Saguenay entrance in winter) or selling them off.


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Jan 2016)

I meant Canadian Forces Auxiliary Vessels (CFAV) organization not TC, Marine Services is what they used to be called as I recall from reading the reports on the old Black Duck.

The age of fleet out here is a real big issue, one that I raise during all the environmental assessments when the proponents say "and no construction, support vessels less than 10 years old" and I ask them where exactly are they coming from? If one of the LNG terminals go ahead you start seeing a renewal of the fleet, only Seaspan has done a major renewal in the last 5 or 6 years and made sure to send all the old stuff to scrap so no one can compete with them using their old vessels.


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