# Credit Check Superthread- Merged Topics



## qualified

CAN PEOPLE WITH BAD CREDIT JOIN THE ARMY??


----------



## Slumsofsackville

I dont see why not. its money. to pay off the bad credit.


----------



## iRon(V)oNKeY

I don‘t actually know this, but I do know that they do a Security Check on your history, and that does include a check on your personal credit history. Basically CFRC told me that it‘s just to check if your trustworthy. If your in a low income situation, I don‘t think that should pose a problem at all, unless you owe people big time.


----------



## yot

when I was doing my interview, he asked me some question like.. do I have any credit card? student load? I am not sure what are those question for... but all of my answer is NO. KeKe


----------



## portcullisguy

Don‘t quote me on this, however, members of the CF all undergo, at minimum, the "enhanced" clearance for security purposes, the same as any other Federal government worker.

Enhanced is simply a reliability check involving a CSIS check to see if you are a known terrorist, and ensuring your address and job history is complete with no gaps.  There MAY be a credit check, to ensure no outstanding or recent bankruptcies.

"Secret" is the next level up, and involves a slightly lengthier check, of police databases, and for certain the credit check.

All I know about "top secret" is that most people don‘t have it, it takes a long time to get, and they are in fact, VERY thorough.

I believe "secret" clearance is mandatory for a comms course.

The exposure an "enhanced" level employee/soldier has to sensitive data is quite limited.  The secret Tim Horton‘s coffee recipe is off limits, I‘m quite sure...     At most, you will handle information such as records regarding other employees/soldiers, such as training or attendance records, PRI/SN‘s, etc. ("protected a" and "b" stuff).  You don‘t get into anything interesting or remotely risky until "secret" level.

I‘m sure an INT pers could correct me or fill in details.

I have only applied for Secret once, for an intelligence job with my civvi employer (customs), and since I didn‘t get the position, they didn‘t send the check in.  I‘ve done that security check so many times it‘s ridiculous.


----------



## Caz

Depends - do you have bad credit, or no credit?

The Enhanced Reliability Check does run a credit report on you.  If you have a history of not paying your bills, getting evicted because you can‘t make rent, banks cancelling your credit cards, bankruptcy in the past seven years - well, you probably won‘t be seen as very reliable.

Now, if it‘s just that you don‘t have any liabilities, because you‘ve never had a loan or a credit card, then it is a moot issue.  You haven‘t done anything to build a credit rating, but you also haven‘t destroyed it.

Cheers,
-R.


----------



## Korus

Portcullisguy;

‘Secret‘ is Level II. Level I, or ‘Confidential‘ is the next step up from Enhanced Reliability.


----------



## portcullisguy

Korus, thanks for the clarification.  I usually end up only having to check the "Enhanced" box on the form.

They used to have a category just for us airport workers, but they took that off the form lately.

I know that level II can take 3-6 months, and top secret up to a year, to get clearance, depending on how accessible your records are.


----------



## McInnes

They also have to check that, if you get your requested job/trade within the Canadian Forces, that you will be able to pay off your debts with your new level of income. Also, you can lose your job in the Canadian Forces if your debt gets out of hand. There are services on base to help you manage your debt and other money issues for serving personnel.


----------



## drteeth

I‘ve seen posts about this before, but I‘d like some info if anyone can give it.  I‘m 27, no criminal record, an Electronics Engineering Technologist, healthy, about to apply for Reg. Forces, as either SIG OP, FCS Tech, Naval Acoustics Tech.  My problem is Money.  I used to have a great paying job, but when the plant shut down, my finances went to **** in a handbasket.  I haven‘t made more than $1000 a month since, and can‘t pay the stuff back, it‘s been about 4 years.  I‘m down about $20,000.  Maybe 25.

Anyways, I know they do a credit check.  The thing is, If I got in, I could pay the stuff back.  (Although that is NOT why I‘m joining).  I‘m wondering if the check is written in stone, (if your credit is bad enough too bad for you), if there is a dollar value plateau for acceptance, if i go to a credit counsellor will that help or hurt, bankruptcy, does the recruiter/interviewer have final say?  I feel that if I had the opportunity to explain the situation to anyone it might make a difference.  Anything I find on the DND website or in my recruitment package is really vague.  I‘ve heard a thousand different stories.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Tyrnagog

I went in for my interveiw the other day, and the only thing thtey asked about finances is if I have ever had any creditors after me.  What exactly they needed that for, I am not 100% sure.  I don‘t think they will or will not hire you based on how much money you have in your bank account.

You may want to talk to a credit counsellor.. that way you can tell the recruiter that you have a plan for getting yourself on track..  I don‘t know for sure though.  This is all purely speculation from this end...


----------



## rdschultz

I‘m in almost exactly the same boat.  Except mine are student loans, and it hasn‘t been that long, but same idea.  And I‘m hoping for the best in the next month or so when they decide if they‘ll take me or not.

One thing that is important, and this was impressed upon me by the recruiter, was having the bad listing on my credit report was a "show stopper" as he put it.  Thats if they just look at the rating and have nothing else to go on.  However, if you are still able to (depending on your relationship with the lender) make some sort of payments, then do so.  With my application, I had to get the lender to write a letter saying we had reached an agreement, that the lender would not hold the CF responsible (although when mentioned this fact to the guy who I got to write the letter, he was like "why/how on earth would we do that"), and that payments were being made, no matter the size.  Then I had to bring in a photocopy of the first money order I sent them, as proof that I was making payments.  I‘m elgible for a signing bonus that would more than cover my debts, but that is not supposed to be mentioned in the letter (i.e. as a condition of your payment schedule). The Captain told me I can promise it to them and make whatever deal I want with them, just as long as it isn‘t in the letter.  

It is a pretty lousy position though, I‘ll admit.    You can‘t make payments without a job, and you can‘t get a job (with the CF at least), without making payments.  As I‘m an Electrical Engineer (digital electronics), I know exactly the type of industry you‘re dealing with.  

As for credit counsellor, it might not hurt.  I‘ve never been to one, but if you could get someone to look over your situation and even provide some sort of reference letter about it to include in your file, it might not be a bad thing.  I imagine bankruptcy would hurt your chances, but I‘m not completely sure.  And the recruiter doesn‘t have final say, no.  I think they can terminate your application if you‘re not found "suitable and competitive", but if you can get past the recruiter, you still have to get past whoever it is at Borden who selects people for each trade.


----------



## Tyrnagog

One thing about credit counsellors..  I would suggest making sure you see a non-profit credit agency..  That way you are sure the agency isn‘t out to make money over you.  This way you can get information, etc.  without having to pay for it..


----------



## Redeye

Given the position you‘re in, what I‘d suggest is first to contact the creditors directly if possible and try to work out some payment arrangements with them directly.  Make a plan with them and stick to it.  If this doesn‘t work, seek credit counselling which may further negotiate on your behalf to get something structured for you.

Don‘t declare bankruptcy and try to avoid filing a consumer proposal, both of those will ruin your credit for seven years at least.  If you have legitimate reasons for being behind and show initiative and commitment to your obligations there is a good chance lenders will be willing to work with you - after all, they want their money back!

(In civvie life I‘m a banker, so I have a bit of insight on things like this.)


----------



## Caz

Essentially, they want to make sure you don‘t skip payments, and that you haven‘t declared bankruptcy.  I also think they look to see if you‘ve defaulted on any loans.

Follow the banker‘s advice


----------



## Pieman

Hi drteeth,

My application went through a similar problem as I had a large financial dispute. I showed the CF the documentation I had on the problem, and was able to show that I was being responsible and handling it, and my application was allowed to procede. So here are some steps I took with this problem that you may want to consider doing:

1) Read the ‘Free Trade Act‘ and the ‘Credit Act‘  Know and understand what your rights are! You can google it and find them online. (I believe those are the names, someone please correct me if I am wrong.)

2) Do your best to arrange payments, as best you can handle them. Look into a non-profit credit advisor if you feel it will help. (I did not do this myself as my problem was a dispute, not a dept)

3) Consider getting a legal representative. 

Specifically in the ‘Credit Act‘, there is a law that states a credit agency is not allowed to contact you outside your legal representative. Or they will lost their license. 

You can hold a legel rep, for very low cost as the credit agency will only write letters (if any), of which your legal rep will hand to you. As long as you write the response letter yourself, you will not get a big bill from the lawyer. 

This is important for two reasons. First, you will no longer be harrassed by creditors. Second, the CF will probably like this because it shows you are handling the situation since you have a legel rep. This also means the CF not be getting any calls from a credit agency.

4) Start take care of this now! It took me a few weeks to obtain everything I needed to prove myself to the CF, and that is time I wish I did not lose.

P.S. If redeye thinks any of these points are a bad idea, then listen to him. He would know a lot more than I do. I am simply relating my experience with this kind of situation.


----------



## Redeye

Pieman, that sounds reasonable enough to me.  I don‘t know entirely what the CF will want to see, but it strikes me that as long as you have taken full responsibility for any outstanding obligations and make arrangements for them to be maintained in order, they would likely be satisfied.  That seems to be what happened in your case.


----------



## drteeth

Thanks alot everybody, especially pieman and redeye.  I see credit posts on here everyonce in a while so I‘ll post what happens after i go through it all, hopefully good news.


----------



## cathtaylor

Does anyone know when they do the credit check. Is it done at the same time as the ERC. I'm still waiting for fingerprints to come back. As far as what I was told that it's the only thing left to get back in my application process. Would appreciate any feedback.


----------



## Spr.Earl

It's done through the R.C. when they start your security check.


----------



## cathtaylor

I'm sorry but could you please tell me what R.C is.

Thanks


----------



## rdschultz

As far as I was told with mine, it was done at the same time as the ERC (its actually part of it, from what I gathered).  

And I'm assuming here, but I think Sapper Earl was using R.C. as an abbreviation for Recruiting Centre?


----------



## jswift872

i would assume R.C meant Recruiting Centre


----------



## jswift872

whoops, never even noticed the def. up above me, sorry guys


----------



## kbowes

Cath, I'd call RC and ask about the credit situation if you feel there might be an issue with your cred history.  Sometimes 'closed' on a credit report may not be sufficient comfirmation.
K.


----------



## Spr.Earl

Sorry guys :-[
Yes ,R.C. = Recruiting Center

Also if you have debts, those debt's can stop or may delay your enlistment.

Just another tid bit.


----------



## Harrier101

I have actually a small amount of debt, roughly 4000$, I have consolidated all of my debt with a credit counseling service. When my daughter was born, my wife stopped work and we were lost a fair amount of income that UI did not make up for. So, I started to run into trouble making my payments, hence the credit counseling. All of my debt's are currently listed as R7, paid through credit counselling or consolidation agreement. By what some of you are saying, does this mean it may disqualify me as an applicant to the Canadian forces?


----------



## rdschultz

That depends, I'm sure, on specific circumstances.

I've got a student loan that I defaulted on, and it was listed as an R5 (I think).  When they did the security check, I had to get a letter from the bank who issued the loan saying that I had reached an agreement with them, and that I was working on paying the money back.  I also had to take in a copy of the issued money-order proving that I had made the first payment.   I was told by Military Career Counsellor that without the letter, the debt was a showstopper.  With the letter, it supposedly became a non-issue.  I should find out in the next couple weeks if he was right.


----------



## kbowes

hoser said:
			
		

> I was told by Military Career Counsellor that without the letter, the debt was a showstopper.   With the letter, it supposedly became a non-issue.   I should find out in the next couple weeks if he was right.



Showstopper because of the amount of debt?


----------



## maphewz

oN tHE Topic,

If you have a debt: as long as you make the monthly payments, and never super late all is well with a credit check. I process some of them through my civie job! :sniper: now eat lead!!


----------



## casing

Kurbo said:
			
		

> hoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was told by Military Career Counsellor that without the letter, the debt was a showstopper.   With the letter, it supposedly became a non-issue.   I should find out in the next couple weeks if he was right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showstopper because of the amount of debt?
Click to expand...


Not because of the amount of debt, but because without the letter the CFRC would assume that the debt was not being dealt with by the indebted person. And lack of responsibility definitely is a show stopper. Remember, showing a lack of responsibility in your history that has never been rectified by you (for example!) is a good indication that you will continue to act irresponsible. Not something the CF wants in candidates. Your history showing a lack of responsibility which has since been thoroughly taken care of by the offending party shows a growth in maturity and responsibility. Two characteristics that the CF does like.


----------



## space_sldr

Do they check the library too? hope not cuz I've lost a book that cost over $60 and haven't payed it for months now... ??? ???

"Recruiter:...you owe the library money sooooo your application is going have to be delayed for a month"


----------



## rdschultz

Kurbo said:
			
		

> hoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was told by Military Career Counsellor that without the letter, the debt was a showstopper.  With the letter, it supposedly became a non-issue.  I should find out in the next couple weeks if he was right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showstopper because of the amount of debt?
Click to expand...


I'm not absolutely sure, but my understanding was that it was a showstopper not because of the amount, but because of the fact that a debt was there that had the indication that it wasn't being taken care of.

EDIT:  I guess I should read all the replies before I respond... Basically yeah, what Casing said.


----------



## rdschultz

space_sldr said:
			
		

> Do they check the library too? hope not cuz I've lost a book that cost over $60 and haven't payed it for months now... ??? ???
> 
> "Recruiter:...you owe the library money sooooo your application is going have to be delayed for a month"



If the library sends the debt to collections,  it might be a problem.  They might look at the amount and basically say "hey, if you pay this off, you're golden".  I have no idea if they take an amount that small into account, but it will show up on your credit rating, and its better to be safe than sorry.

Not to mention the fact that if you probably want to pay it off if you ever plan on borrowing money for anything (mortgage, financing a car, even getting a cell phone in some cases).  A good credit rating will certainly help you later on life, even if the amount is small.


----------



## yot

hoser said:
			
		

> space_sldr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do they check the library too? hope not cuz I've lost a book that cost over $60 and haven't payed it for months now... ??? ???
> 
> "Recruiter:...you owe the library money sooooo your application is going have to be delayed for a month"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the library sends the debt to collections,   it might be a problem.   They might look at the amount and basically say "hey, if you pay this off, you're golden".   I have no idea if they take an amount that small into account, but it will show up on your credit rating, and its better to be safe than sorry.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that if you probably want to pay it off if you ever plan on borrowing money for anything (mortgage, financing a car, even getting a cell phone in some cases).   A good credit rating will certainly help you later on life, even if the amount is small.
Click to expand...


haha you know what, I dont think they will check that if you didnt tell them.. I forgot to return the books to library for 2 weeks. End up, I had to pay $20. However, I hadn't paid them for 2 months. And now, my security check is proved, and get sworn in next week..


"Recruiter:...you owe the library money sooooo your application is going have to be delayed for a month" is this a joke or what? I don't know he my application was delayed or what. Because I have only live in Canada for 7yrs, this may also cause the security check taking longer than others.


----------



## rdschultz

Part of the security check is a credit check.  You're right, they don't check every possible place you might have a debt, they just get your credit rating from the credit bureau.  If the library sends it off to a collection agency (which I've seen a library do to my sister, without ever mentioning any action otherwise), it will have a negative impact on your credit rating.


----------



## bossi

Bummer - when I wrote a paper about this in university, you could get a copy of your credit rating for free.
However, I just checked and discovered it costs money now
(although there's something about getting a report for free via "snail mail" ...)

As far as I remember, Equifax was the big name in Canada:   
 Equifax consumer products   

and here's the link for the free report:    Your credit report and sample downloads 

If you're concerned, don't be shy - ask questions, and avoid misunderstandings
(after all, if you've got a 'black mark' on your record, it's not going to go away through wishful thinking ...)


----------



## kbowes

bossi said:
			
		

> As far as I remember, Equifax was the big name in Canada:
> Equifax consumer products
> 
> and here's the link for the free report:    Your credit report and sample downloads
> 
> If you're concerned, don't be shy - ask questions, and avoid misunderstandings
> (after all, if you've got a 'black mark' on your record, it's not going to go away through wishful thinking ...)



There's also TransUnion Canada - http://www.tuc.ca/

You can pay the $15-20 and get them online....or do a snail-mail request for free. It's a good idea to get your reports, IMO. There can be descrepancies of which you may not be aware.  Bossi is dead-on...any des'crps won't just disappear on their own.


----------



## girlfiredup

Has anyone ever ordered their credit history via mail?   If so, do you remember how long it took?


----------



## bossi

(chuckle)  Obviously, my information is "dated" (i.e. when I was in university, e-mail hadn't really been invented yet ... so, "snail mail" was state of the art - replacing dino mail ...) 

I think it takes between one and two weeks - depending on how busy they are, and how marvelous the postal service is between Equifax and your burb.


----------



## girlfiredup

Pretty good turn-around time.  

Thanks Bossi.


----------



## casing

GirlFiredUp, I ordered my credit reports via snail mail from both Equifax and Trans Union less than one year ago (before I submitted my app for the Regs). It took about 3 weeks to get any form of response back. Because they didn't have current info on me, they both sent a response asking for further clarification on who I was. Once I sent the updated requests in, I got the credit reports in about 1.5 weeks. I'm sure that if they were satisfied with my first request, it would have only take 1.5 to 2 weeks total.

Also, my credit reports did not contain the exact same information.   A couple of things were the same, but others were not (ie: one had something that the other didn't, and the other had something that the one didn't). So make sure you request from both credit agencies and not just one.   

Oh, one more thing.   Unless you are in a huge hurry, just request it via mail. Why spend $$ when you don't need to? Especially giving those $$ to a credit agency.   :rage:


----------



## girlfiredup

Thanks Casing.   I don't need the report but it's good to have I suppose.   I'm curious more than anything so they can take as long as they want with mine.    By the way, what sort of info did they say you were missing?


----------



## Fogpatrol 1.0

I have a terrible credit mostly because of a student loan.   I never thought this would affect my enlisting this much.   Is there a chance they will let me in even with a bad credit?

Edit: I just sent an Email to my recruiter asking if there's anything I can do.


----------



## casing

GirlFiredUp said:
			
		

> I don't need the report but it's good to have I suppose.



You might think you don't need it, but it's actually a very good idea to get your cred reports every two or three years anyway. Just to make sure that there isn't eroneous information on them that might be harmful to your rating. It happens. Not only that, but you'll be able to see who has been making enquiries about your cred rating. If people/companies are enquiring about your rating that you don't expect to see or didn't authorize to do so, that could be a red flag for you to be wary and you might want to look into it.



> By the way, what sort of info did they say you were missing?



Didn't have current address, or employer information.   So, when I tell them my address is such and such and it doesn't match up with what they have as my "current" address, they want me to verify the truth of what I'm saying. Stuff like that.


----------



## rdschultz

Fogpatrol 1.0 said:
			
		

> I have a terrible credit mostly because of a student loan.  I never thought this would affect my enlisting this much.  Is there a chance they will let me in even with a bad credit?
> 
> Edit: I just sent an Email to my recruiter asking if there's anything I can do.



Thats about my position, too.   I had a student loan go sour for a completely stupid reason, and the bank decided they wanted me to start making payments on the loan.  Problem was, I still had a year left of university, they refused to allocate more funds that I had been counting on, and  they didn't return any of my numerous calls to let me know until my first day of classes.  Basically, it amounted to my defaulting on the loan.

But, when I decided to apply to the military, I contacted them, let them know what was happening, and asked them to write a letter to say that we had reached an agreement.   I was told the military didn't care what the arragnements were (The recruiter told me even if it was as small as $10/month that they agreed to, then that was fine, as long I was straightened up with them somewhat.  Of course, the bank demanded much more than that).  Because of the letter, I was able to pass my enhanced reliablity check.  As far as I've been told, as long as I pass that, I'm good to go.


----------



## girlfiredup

Casing said:
			
		

> Not only that, but you'll be able to see who has been making enquiries about your cred rating. If people/companies are enquiring about your rating that you don't expect to see or didn't authorize to do so, that could be a red flag for you to be wary and you might want to look into it.



Interesting.  All the more reason to request one.  

Thanks.


----------



## Harrier101

Well, I have been in touch with both of the credit reporting agencies and have received my reports. After that, I did contact a recruiter at the Kingston office to explain my situation. As I posted above, I have been with the Credit Counselling Service of Toronto for 18 months, and I owe about 4400$ on combined credit cards. My regular payments are 200$ a month. The recruiter told me that as long as it is verifiable that regular payments are being made, on time, and in accordance with the lending banks, creditor's, etc. then it will be fine. In fact, the recruiter indicated to me that it shows more on your character and reliability, that you are willing to show good faith on paying a debt, wether or not it has been defaulted on, missed payments, or Bad Debt, placed for collection in the past. What matters is that the present rating indicates that it is being paid in some form. If a debt is placed as R9(Bad debt. Placed for collection), that would probably require a letter from the bank saying you are making regular payments. All in all, if you have bad debt, stay in touch with the bank. Set up a regular schedule for payments. If you can make regular payments, on time with the lending bank, they will work with you and assist you with a letter of some sort I am sure.


----------



## rdschultz

Mine was R5, and I needed the letter.


----------



## lfejoel25

Hey everybody, 
Just a note, i'm the guy that origonally posted this. (the user name is different, i think my user name was cancelled after i haven't been on in a while).  Anyways, i said i would let you all know what hapenned after i went through it all, for anybody that has a similar problem.

The recruiter said that all i have to do is start making payments, as was mentioned in some of the responses.  which i'm going to get on with relatively soon.  they don't have to be a lot, just as long as i'm making payments.  she also wanted to know whether or not i would be able to pay my bills with the starting salary i would be getting in the forces.  (to which i told her my starting pay would be twice the gross that i make now).  But i passed the physical, medical, and aced the aptitude test, so the only thing i'm waiting on is credit payments.

I'm applying for sigs so hopefully i'll be in around christmas.  lots of thanks to this forum and everybody who replied, i'll definately keep on here in case i can helpanybody else. once again, thanks!


----------



## Harrier101

I just want to let you all know that I am with Credit Counselling, non profit, out of Toronto, I have been with them for over 18 months now, and it has helped big time. I was initially applying for the Police here in Ontario and they are a little more sticky on the credit thing than the CF is. If you have bad credit, regardless of who is after you, you should do regular credit checks through Equifax and Trans Union every 6 months, it's the same info the CF looks at. If you Have R9's on there, get to a credit counselling agency ASAP. It can then be changed from R9...Bad debt, unable to locate,  too R7 payments made through credit counselling or similar arrangement. It's well worth it. It also, shows you are taking charge of your debt. 

In my situation, I had a kid, the wife went on Mat leave and was making squat on Mat Benefits, we had to move from our apartment in Scarborough, all the way out to belleville, get another job, living in a smaller apartment and it goes on and on. To make it short, I was stuck with bills, and less income.It was manageable for many years, then i went to not being able to make payments. So, I had to do it. You should be alright if you have the proper letters. I am getting one from my credit counselling agency just stating that I am making regular payments and that my debt is being lowered.


----------



## lfejoel25

Harrier 101
that's kind of a coincidence.  I used to live in Belleville, I worked for nortel, and that's where all all my credit problems started.  They shut down production at the plant in ....Nov 99???  Too bad too, they paid good.


----------



## Harrier101

Yea, Belleville is alright. Better than Toronto. Too smelly and the not the right place to bring up a kid in my opinion. Anyhow, I am with stream right now doing phone tech support. Pays pretty good, at least my bills are now being paid and I have food on the table. Wasn't so about a year and a half ago. Things have improved, and hopefully will get better over the next year when I get into the Forces.


----------



## autumnweapon

I hoping to here from any who was in this situation before entering the forces. I just had my interview and did well problem is I have a load of debt to pay off ( laid off, out of work for 1year and just finally made past 3 months at my new job). I was on u.i for year, didn't get alot of money and had to pay rent and get food, didn't have much to pay my bills. My job now pays $50 more than I got on U.i. I really want to get in, but was told I have to clear up my debt a bit?
 has anyone gone through this? and any suggestions? 310-debt?


----------



## Freight_Train

There's some info on this here - http://army.ca/forums/threads/13553.0.html
I would suggest as others already have on the above thread, that you look into signing up with a non profit credit counselling service.  They are life savers.


----------



## jay74

I am hoping that someone could help me out.  I would really like to join CF but currently I am holding debt in the form of a student loan.  I have been told by some sources that CF will not take me due to this debt.  Is this true?  If so,  is there anything I could do to help the matter besides paying it off in full?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Have you read the Recruiting FAQ section?

http://army.ca/forums/index.php/board,18.0.html


----------



## George Wallace

Years ago when I joined, I had a Student Loan.  As I was young and it was my first Job, I set up a Pay Assignment to the bank that held the Loan and paid it off.  It came out of my pay before going to the bank I was using for cash and I never even missed it.  I did that at the same time I was setting up my direct deposit banking at the Pay Office.

Same thing goes for an RSP.  As soon as you join set up a RSP and you won't even notice the money going.  Your living standards will not change for the worse so drastically if you do all this when you first join, because you won't have that many pays to readjust to a regular paycheck, if you catch my drift.

GW


----------



## spacedog

jay74 said:
			
		

> I am hoping that someone could help me out.   I would really like to join CF but currently I am holding debt in the form of a student loan.   I have been told by some sources that CF will not take me due to this debt.   Is this true?   If so,   is there anything I could do to help the matter besides paying it off in full?



I know a lot of people in the CF who joined with significant outstanding debt and/or student loans.  If you go through the application process, they'll ask you about that kind of stuff.  Just be honest.


----------



## CDNBlackhawk

I owe 20k in student Loans, and still got in, their biggest concern inst necessarily how much you owe,they are more concerned with whether or not you can pay all your bills, and whether or not if you have a good credit history.


----------



## casing

Good credit history isn't even necessarily the ball breaker.  The key factor is: are you in charge of your debts.  That means, are your debts out of hand, or are you making regular payments.  If they have a question about it, they'll ask you and give you an opportunity to explain.


----------



## rdschultz

I was in the same situation, I had a fairly large debt, and I was given an offer (I'll be sworn in, in one week).  I've already posted my story in other threads, if you want to search.  Or if you'd rather,  you can PM me, I can try to answer any questions you might have about what you need to do.


----------



## Ryan_Bohm

I also have a student load from my college which finnished Aug 20/04.  It wasnt a problem for me because I still got my job offer. I woulndt worry about it.


----------



## Lost_Warrior

Dont worry about it.  I had a 15k student loan that was out of control.....  I still havnt paied a dime on it.  I also had a nice credit card debt which im in the process of paying (one thing at a time) and wasnt even asked about it.

When asked, I told them, but they never hasseled me over it.

THey just ask that kind of stuff so if you have vital info, you wont be swaded to sell the info to the enemy (those with big debts are pursuaded by $$ more than those with no debt)

Dont worry too much about it, unless you're trying to be some kind of spy or something....


----------



## lfejoel25

hey man,

i just found out about this.  as long as it is still just a good debt, it's no problem.  if your bills are in collections, you have to start making payments on it before they'll let you in.  that's where i am currently.  i have to start paying on my debts before my application goes any further.  i don't have to pay it all back, just start making payments.


----------



## chesapeake

Why would the forces require to preform a credit check?  Im  currently having financial difficulties and bankruptcy my be my final resort?


----------



## Inch

This has been covered in other threads, searchy searchy. 

It's to make sure you're not in financial trouble, if you are you're considered an adminstrative burden and you'll never be hired. Guys have been released from the CF for getting into financial troubles.


----------



## Inch

I've noticed a few questions about the reasoning for the credit check, this is the CFAO relating to the subject.

http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/019-04_e.asp

In short, if you are defaulting on your debt, you're not going to get hired, if you're in and you're defaulting on a debt and counselling has not made a difference, you can be released. So, don't live beyond your means, it has career implications and good luck getting another government job if you've been released with disgrace from Her Majesty's Canadian Armed Forces.


----------



## CdnGalaGal

Just to further drive home the importance of looking over those credit reports...

It's a nasty surprise to be told that your app is delayed because of some little payments.

When my ex-bf went reg force, he got the results of his credit check from the recruiting centre and found that there were some items there that he didn't even realize he had. Unpaid bills that his former roommate racked up because he had forgotten to take it out from under his name... And some cable box that Rogers had charged him for not returning when he actually HAD returned it... 

If he'd known these beforehand, it would have saved him some grief at the CFRC and he would have been in the know about those bills that he never received because he had moved... Heh... it also shows that you should always double-check that your mailing address has either been changed with everyone when you move and that all liability of a former residence has been COMPLETELY rescinded...

For those who have student loans through the govt, don't go for interest relief - or if you do at least know that come the end of your extra six month interest free period your account gets handed over to a collections agency. The little things they DON'T tell you...  :rage:


----------



## MPwannabee

I have a friend that declared bankruptcy after he applied and still got in as an AVN Tech.  The recruiter said it was no problem.


----------



## Garbageman

Mastercard has a promotion on right now that gives free online credit checks to the first 10,000 people.  It's through Trans Union, which is one of the two agencies (along with Equifax) that conduct credit reports in Canada.  This normally costs $15 to do online.

As a warning, I was at my bank yesterday, and I was informed that every time you run a credit check, it drops your "credit score" by 20 points.  So while it's still a good thing to do, I wouldn't exactly be writing to Equifax and Trans Union every week!

Here's the link:

 http://www.mastercard.com/canada/education/credit/


----------



## CdnGalaGal

Garbageman said:
			
		

> As a warning, I was at my bank yesterday, and I was informed that every time you run a credit check, it drops your "credit score" by 20 points.



Yikes! Good to know. Thanks for the tip


----------



## Garbageman

A friend of mine just tried the credit report offer, and it looks like all 10,000 have been used already.  Man that was fast - they just launched the promotion on the 20th!

You can still check your credit online, but it'll cost you.  If you write via snail mail to Equifax and Trans Union it's still free.

Equifax:
http://www.equifax.com/EFX_Canada/

Trans Union:
http://www.tuc.ca/TUCorp/home.asp


----------



## Griswald DME

lfejoel25 said:
			
		

> I just put a complaint in about the recruitment process.   Not so much a complaint as letting them know my situation.   I can't get in until i do something about $9000 worth of debt incurred after i lost my job 5 years ago.   The problem is i don't make enough money to do anything about it, but would if i got in.   i think it'll be a real shame if i get denied because of a relatively small debt in the scheme of things.



You can't have debt when you join?  I agree with you, 9K is nothing really compared to the debtload most families have (not including mortgage here).  I have almost that in a personal line of credit from my tuition and cost of living for 10 months on my ELTT course.


----------



## lfejoel25

griswald
you can have debts, but you can't have things in collections or default.
i can get in if i make payments and show proof of a payment arrangement, but i don't make a lot of money, and some of these creditors are EXTREMELY hard to deal with.  i'm still trying to figure out exactly how i'm going to deal with the situation.  it's turning out to be harder than i thought.  i can't go to a bank because of my credit history, credit counsellors want too much money, and the creditors themselves are being very unflexible.


----------



## newwest77

I am guessing that having outstanding debt classifies you as a security risk. Well I don't think that you want to go bankrupt, in which case I doubt that they would accept you until you were discharged anyway. I would assume that your creditor would choose to make a settlement vs. you go bankrupt and they might less.


----------



## Freight_Train

lfejoel25 said:
			
		

> griswald
> you can have debts, but you can't have things in collections or default.
> i can get in if i make payments and show proof of a payment arrangement, but i don't make a lot of money, and some of these creditors are EXTREMELY hard to deal with.   i'm still trying to figure out exactly how i'm going to deal with the situation.   it's turning out to be harder than i thought.   i can't go to a bank because of my credit history, credit counsellors want too much money, and the creditors themselves are being very unflexible.


Look for a non profit credit counsellor.  They will not charge you more than $50 a month to negotiate and manage your payment plan.
Good luck,
Greg


----------



## Morpheus32

The concern is a person who joins the CF with uncontrolled debt and the CF spends its admin time sorting out your problems.  If you have debt, it is not a problem, you have to have it controlled and a plan to pay it off.  If you don't they will send you away until you have a plan.  Simple as that.  I have seen applicants whose parents assume the debt and have a payment plan set up with the parents.  I have also seen people who have made arrangements with the bank for a very aggressive payment schedule.  It is up to you to develop a plan.

Jeff


----------



## Goober

I can only say what I've personally experienced, so I'll write it down here.

The CF did a credit check on me, and it came back OK. The recruiting center told me this, plus my equifax report shows DND was in there. So my debt didn't cause them any worry, and they approved me so far (I'm still waiting on medical).

I have over $20,000 in unpaid debt. Four $5165.00 (plus interest) student loans, all defaulted. One $1000 credit card, defaulted, one $500 credit card, defaulted, and many many many (i have my credit report) late payments on rent, phone bills, internet bills etc....

I've had my own buisiness for 3 years, and it nearly bankrupted me. However, I told all of this in my interview, I was completely honest and candid, plus, before my interview I called most of my creditors, and told them I am going to start to pay off my debt. My $20,000 student loan debt is being handled by an extremely nice lady in the NS govt, collections, who said I don't have to worry about it and can start paying on it when I get in the CF. (I'm lucky that shes nice, alot of people in collections aren't).

My interviewer said they are going to have to check my credit, and I supplied the name of the lady in the NS govt handling my student loan. I can only assume they contacted her to verify my arrangement.

I have all of this debt, and the CF still approved me (thus far, still awaiting medical) because I made arrangements to pay it off.

Thats my personal experience.


----------



## lfejoel25

Just to let everybody know,  here's what happenned in the end.  

I applied around May.
Did the Aptitude and physical in June.
Did the medical and interview in July, that's when i was told i needed to clean up my debts.
Took the letters for my debts in on November 3rd, and was told my app was all set to go, they were just waiting on my medical.  (i don't even think my app was red flaged for credit after all!!!)
Went in today (nov17), and the medical came back, so  i'm merit listed, just waiting for the selection board to sit.
I'll let you all know when i get a call.


----------



## Goober

Just be honest to the recruiters, and make arrangements with all your creditors, and you should be fine. The CF doesn't want creditors calling them looking for you.

There are a few threads with some good info, my personal experience is in this thread http://army.ca/forums/threads/21122.0.html


----------



## buff1

Hello everyone.  I wrote the CFAT 2 days ago and passed.  I am in the process of gathering the required information.  Also, I am in bankruptcy.  Yesterday I had to meet with my trustee and I asked her how this bankruptcy would affect my application.  I told her I heard it could stop my entry into the Forces.  What she told me was that she found that odd because she has had people go to her on the advice of the recruiting center to file an application for bankruptcy to clear their debt so that they could enter the Forces with a clean slate.


----------



## putz

I was in the same boat too.  If you are an undischarged bankrupt it is looked upon as a legal obligation and will stop your application until you provide proof of your discharge.  Also, if you don't tell recruiting they will find oput anyway when theydo your enhanced reliabilty check.  All I had to do was get my trustee to write a letter stating I was discharged and teh date of my discharge from bankruptcy and it was all okay.  Get this letter anyway because sometimes it will take awhile for your credit bureau to get updated.


----------



## buff1

I am not discharged yet though.  I am hoping that at the very least, my application will be put on hold until I get the discharge.


----------



## buff1

I spoke to the recruiting office and they said it could take up to one year for the whole application process so....they said the bankruptcy may not even have any effect on my application what-so-ever!


----------



## eap

i just talked to recruiting and they told me, i have just been discharged from bankruptcy myself, that it brought my mp score in reliability from l.5 to 0.


----------



## drive2live

my friend is currently in the army he has loans as well as credit cards phone bills cable bills you name it he's got it and most of them are at collection, when he applied to the army about 4 years ago the Recruiter asked him about his money situation, and he told him that he could not afford to pay his bills , and that was one of his reasons for joining the army, so he could pay off his bills,and straighten out his life. He is a engineer and has been in gagetown for about 3 years/heading to afgan for a six month tour in august. so for people that are worried about there credit dont be , just be honest- dont lie, its what i did and i was put on the merit list in mar/05


----------



## kincanucks

_my friend is currently in the army he HAS loans as well as credit cards phone bills cable bills you name it he's got it and most of them are at collection_

VS

_one of his reasons for joining the army, so he could pay off his bills,and straighten out his life_

Not doing too well at that is he? Or have you confused your tenses?


----------



## drive2live

that was when he joined 4 years ago, he just bought a new house in gagetown , he has a 2004 GM gt pickup. a 2003 cbr 600 so i would say he is doing a pretty good job.


----------



## kincanucks

drive2live said:
			
		

> that was when he joined 4 years ago, he just bought a new house in gagetown , he has a 2004 GM gt pickup. a 2003 cbr 600 so i would say he is doing a pretty good job.



Okay, so allow me rephrase your original post so that it is a little clearer:

_When my friend applied to the army about four years ago, the Recruiter asked him about his money situation and he told him that he could not afford to pay his bills and that was one of his reasons for joining the army, so he could pay off his bills and straighten out his life.  He had loans as well as credit cards, phone bills and cable bills, you name it he had it and most of them were at collection.  Currently he is an engineer and has been in Gagetown for about three years and is on his way to Afghanistan for a six month tour in August.  So for people that are worried about their credit, don't be.  Just be honest and don't lie.  That is what I did and I was put on the merit list in Mar/05._

I would also like to add some further clarification so that others who may read this will not get the wrong idea.  If you have substantial debt load that has gone to collection and you have not made a concerted effort to address that debt load or if you have declared bankruptcy and that bankruptcy has not been discharged, you will not satisfy the eligibility requirement of having an approved Enhanced Reliability Check and you will not be merit listed or enrolled into the CF until you have done so.  Addressing your debt load can be as simple as contacting the creditors or collection agencies and making some arrangements to begin the repayments of those debts.  Some people will now say that they need to join the CF so that they will have a job to pay off their debts and my response is that the CF is not a social services agency and we do not want you if you are not reliable.  Cheers.

Note: _he just bought a new house in gagetown , he has a 2004 GM gt pickup. a 2003 cbr 600 so i would say he is doing a pretty good job._.  I hope your friend is not heading down a slippery slope again.


----------



## drive2live

i do agree with that for sure, i think the army has helped him learn responsibility. i am going to the army to accomplish something in life and to help the world in the best way i could think of. I have live on my own sense i was 16, I graduated high school and i also have 2 degrees, so i feel i am very responsible. can i ask if you are in the army? if so what do you do, i had read in other forms that you give great advice so keep up the good work,


----------



## the 48th regulator

drive2live said:
			
		

> i do agree with that for sure, i think the army has helped him learn responsibility. i am going to the army to accomplish something in life and to help the world in the best way i could think of. I have live on my own sense i was 16, I graduated high school and i also have 2 degrees, so i feel i am very responsible. can i ask if you are in the army? if so what do you do, i had read in other forms that you give great advice so keep up the good work,



Hi 

Don't need to break from the thread, two degrees in what?  Reading some of your posts , I find that hard to believe. 

Honesty mate, is the key.  Otherwise you will find people, especially on this board, will refuse to interact with you.

I also suggest that you may want to add more to your profile.  Give us a bit of a background who you are.

dileas

tess


----------



## aesop081

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Don't need to break from the thread, two degrees in what?   Reading some of your posts , I find that hard to believe.



English major...... ;D


----------



## drive2live

I just entered this site for some info, I do not need to be criticized, I find some people are just here to criticize and are not using this site for its proper perpose, don't just read the forums to find things to nag and complain about use them for the right reasons, my back ground is simple, graduated 2001, went to college- got a bachelor of arts.-got a teacher's aid diploma- after that i have just been working, in Feb i applied to the army-April-18 got merit listed, now I'm just waiting, 

p.s remember what your mothers use to say "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" shouldn't have to say that we are all adults. :


----------



## Island Ryhno

I think what everyone is saying is do not exaggerate! You're claiming to have two degrees, one of which is a B.A. and another as a TA. We are supposing that you did your degrees in an english speaking environment. Having read only the two posts you've made here, it tells that your spelling and grammar and not quite up to snuff. I may be wrong, but from someone who has been in post secondary education since the beginning of time (or so it seems) you should or would need to be able to spell even the most rudimentary of words. Thus far you have not qualified your statement.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

OK, we'll call it quits here and now. The point has been made on both sides. The original post was answered by kincanucks, that put it in perspective from the Recruiter's point of view. No need to carry this on further. Drive2live, if you feel this thread needs to be reopened, you can PM me.


----------



## 0007

I have read a few posts where recruiters have asked for proof of how potential recruits were handling their student debts. The first interview I had, this was barely raised; the interviewer asked if I had any problems paying and I said no - and that was it! Does this question always come up, and was asking for proof a new thing? I am having difficulties handling a 40,000 student debt and I don't think I would have the problem with a career in the military - seems like a catch-22. What is the story on this? Is proof of student debt payment now a regular thing? What are they looking for, Boy Scouts and Sunday School teachers?


----------



## Wookilar

It used to be a major part of the application process. It's not so much a problem now though. Reason for the debt question is basically, they need to know if you can pay your debts with the limited pay that you will be getting over the first couple of years. That is not so much of a problem since the SCONDVA hearings and we got some much needed (and fairly massive) pay raises about '96 (or so). Back when, a 1st year Private only made 14k, Pvt 1 = 19k, Pvt 2 = 22k, Pvt 3 = 28k (or something like that, I was on the pay freeze then so I didn't really see any of that). 
Now, Pvt fresh out of basic makes, what, 24k first year? Cpl basic sits at around 44k.
Bottom line is, the CF doesn't want you to be an "administrative burden" right from the very start. As long as you can prove that you can pay your existing debts in the pay scale you will be earning (as well as normal living expenses), you will not have a problem. Good Luck.


----------



## 0007

Thanks for the quick reply! I feel relieved to hear that. The last thing I need is another set back. I think the pay for DEO should be more than adequate to pay off my debts, I was more worried about the powers that be looking into my payment history and seeing that it was off and on payments since I graduated (which was ok with Quebec gov't). Thanks again.


----------



## kincanucks

If your debt has reached collections and comes up as a credit hit during the background check then it becomes a very serious issue that you will have to provide proof that you are addressing.

_seems like a catch-22. What is the story on this? Is proof of student debt payment now a regular thing? What are they looking for, Boy Scouts and Sunday School teachers? _

I love hearing this from an applicant "I can't pay my debts unless you give me a job"  Too bad because the CF is not Social Services and people who can't pay their debts or make a reasonable effort to do so are unreliable and unreliable people are a security concern.  No we don't want Boy Scouts and Sunday School teachers but we certainly don't want unreliable people.  If there is a credit hit and you are satisfactorily addressing your debt load, either through credit assistance or by paying it off regularly, then there will be no problem.  If there is no credit hit and the interviewer is satisfied with your responses on the financial part of the interview there will be no problem.  Good luck


----------



## Hadrian

0007,

If you are having problems be up front with it, I was in a similar situation, i took a credit hit for defaulting on some payments. I can now pay for my debts with my civ job, so I answered yes to the question " can you pay for your debts currently," however, After contacting my debtors and realising an issue, I went to see a professional who set me up on a plan that will work now and will work if I have a CF career. My credit issues showed up on my background check, so I promptly provided proof that I was honouring my payment schedule...If you are having problems you should do the same...consider a 'consumer credit proposal', it will put your student loan on ice for 5 years until you can afford to pay it off. A credit proposal is NOT bankruptcy and just helps you manage things over a period of time. for me it's a five year schedule to pay everything off, and im relaxed because student loans no longer calls me, because they are aware of my intentions to repay;.


----------



## Torlyn

There's a reason they do credit checks.  If you say you're fine, and you're defaulting on payments, they will find out, and you will not get in.

T


----------



## BearSoldier

Insert Quote
I have a short story, and questions about the enhanced security check.


   Since I was 19 I went to a recruiter office in Saskatoon to try to enlist.  From that time I went through a process of being recruited.  I decided to wait upon halfway through my recruiting process to finish my grade 12, which I had only my grade 10 at the time.  I finally I finished when i was 21 year's old.  Then unfortunately I caught a person breaking into my car one summer before I was to be enrolled in University and joining the army reserves.  Since i didn't see the person break into my car, and i held him till the police got there i was charged with common assault.  It taken me 1 year to get the charges thrown out by the courts. then another year to get the matter erased and apology from the Saskatoon police with help from FSIN.  after this I decided to try again to enlist.  Friends of mine joined the United States Marines and U.S Army under the JAY treaty because they are treaty Canadian Indian.  Upon my second time enlisting, i accumulated debt from this ordeal from 3 years of school etc.  I have 2 debt that are from when i was 19, I'm 24 now.  Which is credit card debt of 600$, and cell phone, Phone bill. I also owe student loan but I just got a job and paid up with them recently.  My debt is around $3000.  I was promise incentives by the U.S Army to enlist and my friends are encouraging me to fallow suit.  I love my country and I dreamed of helping for a long time.  But past studnet debts are keeping me from being recruited.  They told me I have to have them paid off.  My question is Do I have to have them all paid off before trying again.  I just found a contruction job that pays about $2200 a month I'm in process of paying some debt off.  But will the Debt from 5-years ago prevent me from being in the Canadian Forces, I'm not worried about the other debt I can pay it off. but  just the 5 year old debt. I was a broke first nations student, now I'm down school and everything.  I don't want to join a the U.S armed forces only as a last resort.  Please help me with info on Debt and the Canadian Forces recruiting process, and do I have a chance of getting in if i stay on the route.  I Want to enlist by next year for sure and pay off my debt.


----------



## DEVES

Well from experience with the same problem, I had too pay off all my debts before getting excepted. I didn't even know about the bill that wasn't paid . I was joining up and that was the only thing holding me up. I just paid it, then the credit people to faxed me the confirmation it was paid then sent it too my recruiter. They then went on with my file. You do what you want .The US Army/Marines are probably great but why not pay off your bills here and serve your homeland country.. They will probably want you to pay your bill before joining them anyways.

Deves...


----------



## kincanucks

_They told me I have to have them paid off.  My question is Do I have to have them all paid off before trying again. _ 

Really hard time reading that story but if the 'they' you are referring to is the CFRC/D that you applied to then guess what ?  You have to pay off your outstanding debts.

HH


----------



## BearSoldier

If it wasnt for reading responses from thsi site I wouldnt think I had a 2nd chance to get in the Canadian Army, I will get this debt paid and apply next year. After reading everybodys debt prob and recruiting problems gives me hope and I can't to get in the Canadian amry and fight.


----------



## cftoronto

Is being $5,000 in debt with a bad credit rating going to prevent someone from being accepted? and if so, how much of that would you have to pay off before they continue to process the application?


----------



## beach_bum

Did you read this thread through or are you just hoping someone will give you a qick answer?


----------



## kincanucks

cftoronto said:
			
		

> Is being $5,000 in debt with a bad credit rating going to prevent someone from being accepted? and if so, how much of that would you have to pay off before they continue to process the application?



If it has gone to collection then yes.  The debt would have to be paid off in full or you must provide documentation that you have addressed the debt and are making payments.


----------



## Meridian

Not to pointlessly ressurect an old topic, but what about high debt loiad, but with R1 ratings, no defaults, no collections, nothing.  Just owing a lot of unsecured debt. (And Im not talking 3k).


----------



## aesop081

Meridian said:
			
		

> Not to pointlessly ressurect an old topic, but what about high debt loiad, but with R1 ratings, no defaults, no collections, nothing.  Just owing a lot of unsecured debt. (And Im not talking 3k).



Holy f****......go apply and see what happens....... :


----------



## Meridian

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> Holy f****......go apply and see what happens....... :



I did. 

But since I have to wait for VFS, medical, and CFAT scores to all be found and collated, it will be a while before I find out, according to the CFRC.  The question was also not answered by the above; -AND- I placed this in the appropriate thread.  Due to other issues  with employment currently, Id like to have a realistic idea (or even a best guess). When I asked at the CFRC, I didn't get a direct response because they didn't want to officially pass judgement on something they are not qualified for.  I'm asking for advice or any knowledge someone might have on here who -is- qualified or who has access to someone who is.  I've always looked at this Forum as a great venue for that.  

Whats your problem?   If you don't want to answer, or if no-one has accurate responses, then thats fine.  But if every time anyone posts anything on here they get jumped on, we might as well close the Recruiting forums all together.


----------



## kincanucks

I am pretty sure I answered this question for you last year.  If you don't have any of your debt gone to collection then there is no issue.


----------



## Meridian

kincanucks said:
			
		

> I am pretty sure I answered this question for you last year.  If you don't have any of your debt gone to collection then there is no issue.



Thank you.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Let me see,

What is it you are championing???

Meridian's questions on credit



			
				Meridian said:
			
		

> I did.
> 
> But since I have to wait for VFS, medical, and CFAT scores to all be found and collated, it will be a while before I find out, according to the CFRC.  The question was also not answered by the above; -AND- I placed this in the appropriate thread.  Due to other issues  with employment currently, Id like to have a realistic idea (or even a best guess). When I asked at the CFRC, I didn't get a direct response because they didn't want to officially pass judgement on something they are not qualified for.  I'm asking for advice or any knowledge someone might have on here who -is- qualified or who has access to someone who is.  I've always looked at this Forum as a great venue for that.
> 
> Whats your problem?   If you don't want to answer, or if no-one has accurate responses, then thats fine.  But if every time anyone posts anything on here they get jumped on, we might as well close the Recruiting forums all together.





			
				kincanucks said:
			
		

> I am pretty sure I answered this question for you last year.  If you don't have any of your debt gone to collection then there is no issue.





			
				Meridian said:
			
		

> Thank you.



Yet you still have the gall to complain when time and time again you have asked the same question, and have been answered??

Geez you will make a keen officer in our realm...

dileas

tess


----------



## winks2872

Having bad credit is not a show stopper. Having a bad attitude toward your debts is. My recruiting officer said i have the worst credit he has ever seen, and i do. However he recognized that about a year ago i started making payments (only small) to some of my written off accounts. Also I signed up for a credit counselling program. I was merit listed on Jan 24th... I recieved an offer today (jan 26th) and will be sworn in on jan 31st /// right off to BMQ Gagetown for Feb 5th..........................My application started ~November 10th. A positive attitude will take you anywhere.. 

On a sidenote i want to thank everyone here. Without your insight It would have been much more difficult. Thank you all.

-steve


----------



## Sixshooter

Im re-applying to the regular forces (infantry) after vr-ing back in march of 2006 due to family medical reasons. after handing in my application, they called me back saying id have to pay off in total or start paying off the 1500$ i owe. the question in which im asking is, since my mastercard, after asking, wont give me any papers saying that ive been paying it weekly or whatever, will receipts from the payments work instead to get the application process started up again? 

i just want to make sure before i feel like an a$$ giving them 25$, 50$ receipts and them looking at me like im a jacka$$  :-\


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

First off I'd have to ask who told you that you had to pay off your debts first, I'm in the middle of a bankruptcy, its more common in the queens employ than one would think, and of course the recruiters arent complete retards (borderlined liars maybe) if you walk in with a mastercard statement showing steady payments they're liable to accept it, baring that of course receipts are the next best thing


----------



## Sixshooter

thats the funny thing, cause i told him, its at collection so its not like its collecting interest, and ive heard of people declaring bankrupcty and still going through the process. ive been making little payments here and there, but nothing steady until about 2 weeks ago, im just at a part time job right now so its hard to pay it all off before i want to get going with the army, but yeah, thanks for the answer, guess ill just tell him that im paying everyweek and ill bring the receipts in, wonder if the application will resume once i hand them in or if ill have to wait longer.

nothing ever goes smoothly.  :-\


----------



## ChristopherRobin

Hmm, when they told me they'd do my security and credit check, they never mentioned anything about debt. I owe about $5700 on my Visa and have about $5200 left on my personal loan. They didn't say a word to me.


----------



## LeonTheNeon

From what I understand, unless it is abnormally excessive, having debt is not a problem.  Having a history of not paying your debts is regardless of the amount of debt.


----------



## kincanucks

First of  all being in the CF and declaring bankruptcy and being an applicant who is in the middle of a bankruptcy or has outstanding debt are two very different things.  If you have outstanding debt that has gone to collection then you will be required to prove that you are addressing this debt by providing receipts that you are paying it off on a regular basis or that you have paid the debt off completely.  Being financially sound is all part of the reliability process.  This issue has been addressed so many freaking times on this site so do some work next time.


----------



## Franko

...and on that note, LOCKED.

The Army.ca Staff


----------



## Sixshooter

Just one issue i have to ask and here i go.

I have recently enrolled in the infantry regular force, got my job offer (august 13th) and all that but have yet to be sworn in. Monday morning i got a call saying i need to pay off my credit before my process can be completed. I called today in regards to if i have to have it fully paid off or if i can just show the army that im paying it off on a regular routine basis. My question is since the girl voguely answered me saying to go to my bank, is, if i do indeed go to my bank, and am able to make a plan to say, have them take out payments every friday and put it towards the credit, will they accept that if i go into tomorrow and show them the plan (obviously a plan from the bank itsself), or do i have to wait until actual payments have been put towards the credit? I really want the process to go on since all i need is the swearing in and i dont want to wait another 6 months to go to bmq because of this.  My interest is not telling them im gonna pay it and not, but i do want to be able to get this over and done with quickly even if it was my ignorant-ness(?) that did this mess.

Thanks.


----------



## scoobydoo

I am in a similar situation as you are, and they just told me to have documentation showing that either I am paying it off (agreement) and as long as I am paying it that the creditors won't be taking legal action against me.. I still recommend that you call them back just to be sure , every case is not the same.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

my boyfriend has the worst credit R1 rating, plus most of his old debt is in collections. All he was told to do is get his creditor to write a note that he was making efforts to repay his bad debts.  A search of the forums will probably dig up more info, as you are certainly not the first to have this trouble. Good luck!


----------



## KrissyJ

Enroll in a not for profit Credit Counselling Service. If you are in Ontario. Credit Counselling Services of Eastern Ontario is a great place, if not there should be one in your province. (PM me and I can give you the contact information)  I enrolled and they basically call your creditors and make the plans for you. You pay them a set amount each month tailored to what you can afford. I got them to send a letter to my Captain saying that I am now enrolled in the program. This was sufficient and I am now merit listed waiting for an offer. He said as long as you are showing your taking a proactive approach to your debt then all is well.  Good Luck!


----------



## KrissyJ

I forgot to add all it takes is one appointment and they do the rest, it even shows up on your credit report that you are enrolled in credit counselling. The bank idea sounds good aswell though.


----------



## camochick

Doing a credit proposal, like Krissy has suggested, is almost like filing bankruptcy though so be aware that your credit will be affected for a number of years even after your debts are paid off and you may not be able to obtain credit. I've never had to use the service but i do know quite a few people who have , and essentially the credit councillors contact your creditors and make a deal with them, since they are probably not getting any money from you right now, they settle for a lesser amount and then the credit councillors get the money from you and pay them.


----------



## Sixshooter

i did hear about the credit counselling, but didnt know if they all had fee's or what, i'm gonna head over to the bank tomorrow and if nothing comes up, then i guess my best bet is the counselling. How long would it take if i did do the credit counselling for them to have a letter ready for the recruitment centre? Hopefully not toolong cause i still need my swearing in date to be set and i want to leave for that aug. 13th date.  :-\


----------



## Sixshooter

btw thank you for all the replys


----------



## KrissyJ

She is right, it does bring down your credit rating but it is not close to the same as bankruptcy. You can still get a credit card, a mortgage etc which would be harder if you declared bankruptcy. Well in my experience anyways and I have been with them for 2 years. I think I was told two years after it is completely paid off your credit rating goes back to normal. They also take away your interest so your actually paying principle. As for how long it takes, I had my appointment and then they wrote the letter right there. I would still try the bank first and see if that is suffice since it wont impact your credit as much. I hope you get in for the 13th!!!


----------



## Sixshooter

alright sounds good to me. im off. thank you very much


----------



## Sixshooter

well to update my process, i went to my bank and got a pre-authorized debit thinger, and that didnt happen because apparently they cant do anything like that after a credit card goes to the collectors, but i did make a credit counsilers appointment, but sadly its for july 23, so its gonna be a tight squeeze for my aug.13th leave, or ill have to leave another time, which im hoping doesnt happen.

im suppose to hear back from the army tomorrow so ill keep ya's posted  :-\


----------



## Sixshooter

called and the captain said if i pay a certain amount for the next two weeks the process will continue.  ;D


----------



## KrissyJ

Thats awesome! I hope you can come up with the money.


----------



## Sixshooter

lol yeah i'll be able to. its only 100$ for the next two weeks. :s


----------



## Fishbone Jones

formerarmybrat23 said:
			
		

> my boyfriend has *the worst credit R1 rating*, plus most of his old debt is in collections.



R1 is probably the best rating you can have.

R0 Too new to rate; approved but not used 
R1 Pays within 30 days of billing, or pays as agreed 
R2 Pays in more than 30 days but less than 60 or one payment past due 
R3 Pays in more than 60 days but less than 90 or two payments past due 
R4 Pays in more than 90 days but less than 120 or three or more payments past due 
R5 Account is at least 120 days past due but is not yet rated R9 
R6 No rating exists 
R7 Paid through a consolidation order, consumer proposal or credit counselling debt management program 
R8 Repossession 
R9 Bad debt or placed for collection or bankruptcy


----------



## Sixshooter

never knew those rating, thanks


----------



## formerarmybrat23

either did I reeceguy. Thanks. I knew it was R something. But you get my point he has the worst you can have. 
Mine is not bad, just a few late payments (it took me a while to realize internet and telephone banking has a processing wait time). I try not to worry about credit a whole lot. Its a stressor. Lots of variables can lower your rating. I swear once all my credit is paid off, I'm going to be a cash only girl. It seems like everyone has to learn that lesson, no matter how much the commericals and our parents tell us otherwise!


----------



## Danjanou

R is the term used on the Equifax printout, I believe the other large credit check company Trans Unions uses “E” but basically the numbers are the same the higher the number the worse it is.

Everyone should check their credit history with Equifax and/or Trans Canada Credit on a regular basis 

http://www.equifax.com/home/

http://checkcreditcanada.com/

I read Equifaxes daily and there is a fair bit of info there, but it’s all from third party sources, banks, credit cards, utility companies, cell phone providers etc. who in turn use it to determine if you’re a good or bad credit risk. If they incorrectly put something down then it’s there until corrected. Equifax won’t do that until you get them too.

Small errors in your teens on a cell phone bill may come back to haunt your 10-15 years later when you apply for a mortgage.

RO is actually not good either, as it shows you have no credit history. I would suggest starting to build a credit history, responsibly early on. get and use a credit card and pay iot off each and every month the whole ammount, not just the balance due. You'll build credit history, and learn money management skills. Cell phone and ISP also help you build credit history, until one is old enough to statrt gettign the big ticke titms, house, condo, car etc. If you can't budget then you don't need or want a Gold Card. The idea her is to never find yourself needing credit counselling serivces. 

The new prepaid load and use credit cards advertised on TV now (much music?) would be a good option to help teenagers develop a good credit rating and responsible use.

Oh yeah before anyone asks mine is R1 and has been so for over 20 years. 8)


----------



## Sixshooter

if i knew about pre-paid for i got my mastercard, i woulda done that, mom even has one and she loves it.


----------



## Meridian

formerarmybrat23 said:
			
		

> my boyfriend has the worst credit R1 rating, plus most of his old debt is in collections. All he was told to do is get his creditor to write a note that he was making efforts to repay his bad debts.  A search of the forums will probably dig up more info, as you are certainly not the first to have this trouble. Good luck!



I think you mean R9...  an R1 is a perfect rating. (as mentioned by recceguy) Also, note that these ratings are PER creditor, and are based generally on the Creditor's discretion.....  your overall rating is actually a score,  usually under the FICO methodology, and most Canadians have a 700 or higher.  FICO scores consider how long you have had the accounts, the ratio of balance to limit on each account,  payment history (the R/E ratings), credit inquiries (how often you request credit), etc.   Potential creditors then factor in your housing costs, standard base values for cost of living, total current debt to income ratios, and then come back with a number.

Often all of this is done automatically by the bank's system, in some cases banks automatically approve everyone with a certain FICO score, and automatically decline everyone with another one.



visit www.equifax.ca


----------



## steveb087

just to help you out, i work in a bank in the Mastercard department and "Meridian" has the correct info, evrytime you pay your bills on time it's noted as R1, even if you pay a couple of days late it's still R1, were I work we don't even send infoto equifax before your 60 days late, so don't sweat it if you missed a month once, just don't make a habit of missing months .....anyways to get back to your credit rating, it's a number, the canadian average is about 680 to 760, everything including payment, debt %, number of credit requests, etc affects your credit, and stays on your credit for 7 years. So if you missed a couple payments 8 years ago it dosn't even show up.

hopes this helps everyone out, feel free to ask more questions


----------



## GIGIJoe

I have really really bad credit right now, and I noticed the cedit check on the "Personnel Screening, Consent and Authorization Form". I'm wondering if this is a pass/fail thing or if I might be able to squeak by with an excuse for it. The last company I worked for went out of business while I had 3 credit cards on the go. There wasn't really much I could do. Instead of getting another full-time job, I went back to school. Anyways, if anyone knows anything about this, I'd appreciate a few posts. Thanks...


----------



## Roy Harding

Welcome to Milnet.ca.

Your question has been asked and discussed many times.  Please use the search function.

The links below will take you to some other threads on the subject.  Use "Credit" as a search term in the Recruiting forum.  LOTs of reading for you.

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/13319.0.html
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/19224.0.html
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/13504.0.html

This thread is locked.

Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff

Edited to fix links


----------



## questioner

Hello, I searched some of the other threads, but didn't quite find anything specific enough to answer my question, so here goes...

I can only assume I have a poor credit rating. I have not checked it, but a bill collector was after me for quite some time trying to collect a credit card bill that I defaulted on. I also defaulted on two other credit cards, but they never called very much, just the one. I used the money to go to school, because I couldn't afford it otherwise, and I tried to pay them off but I just couldn't and fell so far behind I defaulted.

The total amounts are such that I have begun saving money to pay them off. I owe $2000 some on the first card, and maybe $1000 each on the other two, tops.

I want to apply for an officer's position. Maybe CELE or similar.

I already have an Enhanced Reliability check, because I worked (as a student) for a federal government department. I got this check in late 2004.

My question is, what is going to happen to me if I apply, and what should I do to ensure my application is successful? I want to get in ASAP, but I don't want to fail the credit check. I don't have enough money saved up to pay off the bill collectors yet either. I have saved up only about $1000.

Will the CF still do an ER check? Will they do some secret clearance check and do another credit check at that time? What exactly will happen...

The credit cards are from like 2002/2003-ish.

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## JBoyd

I just went through this, so I guess I have some good knowledge on the Situation.

I do not know if the reliability status process is different for NCMS or Officers but I will tell you what I know. Due to my not great credit history (much like you, 3 cards in collections) My credit history was not sufficient enough to grant me reliable. What I had to do was put together a package and send it to the CFRC requesting a waiver on my reliability status, my interviewer discussed all this with me during my interview, have you had yours?

He said he didn't need everything paid off, just shown to be currently under control and manageable. So I called all my creditors, settled what I could, and made payment arrangements with the rest. Had them all fax me confirmation of such and wrote up a professional letter stating the request and outlining my debts, including when they incurred, why they incurred, and how I was taking care of them now. I enclosed all the correspondence I received as validation. 

My request was approved yesterday and I am now able to be granted reliability status. If you have not had your interview yet then perhaps start on this process now, I feel confident that during your interview it will come up. The CF sees bad debt, or rather un-managed debt as irresponsible and unreliable. Good luck to you though, if this is what you have to do, you can contact me for futher advice if you wish, if this does not apply than I am sorry.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

questioner,

JBoyd gave you an answer. Any other questions about it should be addressed to the Recruiter for the proper, no  mistake answer. There's also bags of stuff about this in the Recruiting Forum. It just takes some time and effort to find and read it. I suggest you use the first two and accomplish the latter.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## VALETGUY5242

Ok i know there have been alot of questions regarding this stuff so i will make it short and sweet. I am in the midst of filling for going bankcrupt i am 34years old and i have had a full-time job for 10 years and i am married with kids, i  own my house but in the past i was over extended credit and i want to join up will this affect me getting in?
Thanks for any info you can give..


----------



## Lil_T

as far as I know - your bankruptcy should be discharged before you join.  not the 7 years or whatever, but once the payments to your trustee are finished they'll discharge it.  takes about 6-7 months


----------



## The_Falcon

VALETGUY5242 said:
			
		

> Ok i know there have been alot of questions regarding this stuff so i will make it short and sweet. I am in the midst of filling for going bankcrupt i am 34years old and i have had a full-time job for 10 years and i am married with kids, i  own my house but in the past i was over extended credit and i want to join up will this affect me getting in?
> Thanks for any info you can give..


Here, they can give you a more definative answer

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/html/askaquestion_en.aspx


----------



## bradlupa

Let me set the scenerio, I know i have bad debt but i have increased my score over the last year by 100 points.  

Knowing this I pulled my credit report and found out what was on it and called all my creditors and found a company to de a debt managment program ( very good company if anybody needs one pm me Ontario)

So i set up everything and paid off what i could about 3 bills totaling around $1500, i got letters of clearance from all debtors and made a folder.  In the folder i put in the letters of clearance, my credit report and my signed agreement from the Debt Counsellor along with a letter stating the conditions and requirments of the program.

I went to my interview and my MOC asked if there was anything i wanted to talk about before we started, i said yes and started to talk about my credit.  Turns out when they did my credit check they found 7 things that needed to be talked about and of those i had paid 3 the previous week hence the letters.  One was to be paid on Monday and the other 3 were in my agreement.  I was told that the effort that i had put in to address my credit prior was of an excellent nature and she saw no reason to put a show stopper on for my credit.  The MOC said that i had a great drive to clear up my bad debt and that went along way..

So with that i was granted Security Clearance and now just waiting for an offer.

Just a bit of useful information, if you know you have a credit issue, pull your credit reports and address the issues BEFORE you go and get the letters of clearance as they will copy them and it helps you bulid a strong case saying that you have had a bad time in your life and are trying to fix it.

And always be prepared for the unexpected.


----------



## smittymed

Speaking on this issue, I was seriously worried going into my selection proccess. I have many debts( jeep, credit cards etc...) I have int the past been late on a couple of things and was worried about my debt load being an issue. All told I owe around 30,000 in debt. This was not an issue at all and my ERC went though mosh cosh and had no problems. My advice, make sure everything is paid up to date about 3 months before you join, contact your creditors and find your standing with them then hope for the best.


----------



## geo

Bradlupa....
Good on you for clearing things up in record time.  I am positive it wasn't easy

BTW... The credit score thing has to do with our "reliability" check 
NOThing to do with Security clearance.


----------



## jq0342

When you get your interview stage, does that mean the candidate has passed the credit check?

Also, when you do your security check, is it true that CSIS says " yay" or " nay"?


----------



## MikeL

You don't have to make a new thread for each question you have.. consolodate in one thread.. also search. You aren't the first person to have this question. An again, why don't you an others ask questions when you are at the CFRC?


----------



## jq0342

If I did my interview and my file is being sent to Ottawa, does that mean that I passed my credit check?


----------



## JBoyd

Not necessarily. After my lengthy application period, I received a call 3 days before I received my offer (which was just over 2 months from when I had my interview, and 8 months from when all of my paperwork was submitted properly ie Back check and 330-60e) from a 2lt inquiring about a debt on my credit report from 2004. I explained the debt to him and that it had been paid off (as part of an ERC waiver process from 2007) he said okay and that he was processing a waiver for my ERC. 

It seems to me that it is possible that you can still be asked about your credit history up until you received your offer. I suggest you search the site on more topics regarding ERC and ERC Waivers if you are worried about your credit history


----------



## PMedMoe

Normally, as long as you prove you are making payments, it's _usually_ not a problem.

The CF has good reason not to enroll people who have administrative or financial problems as these issues _may_ disrupt the person's training schedule if they are required in court, etc.

If I were you, I'd be more worried about the fact that you have several speeding and parking infractions.

Ensure you let the recruiters know your situation.


----------



## Vimy_gunner

Okay, so it sounds like their is a double standard of sorts with regards to recruiters saying yes or no based on your credit history.  After reading the whole thread it's clear that some who have a larger debt than I with a bad payments are being accepted in some cases.  On the other side of the cube, Some with less debt problems then I do are being denied and told they have to clear up absolutely every cent they owe.

To make a long story short, I have about 10k in debt, mostly student loans along with 400 dollars on a cell phone bill and a couple other small things.  My student loans were sent to collections and a few months ago I started making payments (while going to college) after arranging a plan to payback the money owe.  My cell phone bill comes from the end of the summer when I went back to college and I don't have the money.  I'm flat broke till I graduate in April.

I applied for the reserves last week and I've been reading quite a bit of (confusing) information due to the fact some get in with bad debt, even if they havent made arrangements with creditors or if they have and some are not getting in if they have ANY unpaid debts.

My debt is no laughing matter, but at the same time 10k of debt at 31 is considerably less than most my age.  I mean, my debt won't affect my ability to fire a gun or run through the woods or work your butt off doing some heavy labor.  

It sounds to me like it's luck of the draw.  Some recruiters don't believe your credit rating will affect your duties in the CF and some believe it's the be all-end all with regards to fighting for your country.  If it's the case of the ones who say they got in with debt issues being full of crap okay, but otherwise, 
I find it puzzling since it's doubtful that the CF considered the debt loads of the many members who fought hard in WW1 and WW2 and won medals of honor and did their jobs.  

If there was a WW3, would they accept all who have debt issues?  I'm guessing a definite, resounding, YES.  So If a recruiter could clear up how a soldier is capable during times of war to serve their country and not during peace time (doing a less complicated job than during war times) ?  
I say this for all those out there (possibly myself if I don't get lucky) who are being denied an opportunity to represent their country when their is a worker shortage as it is and being an infantry soldier for example and putting yourself in harms way has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with debt.  Perhaps psychological testing of what's in a persons heart, etc and how they deal with pressure when it hits would be a more accurate way of testing reliability considering it states these things are the skills that are important for being able to do your job.  

Not too long ago it was a choice, jail or military.  Considering how much we kicked ass with our much smaller numbers in military engagements throughout history, would it not be accurate to say that many of those guys who chose military over jail would have never passed the reliability testing?  Answer is again, a yes.  Criminals were doing their jobs in a reliable manner, but now they question if someone who owes a few k's can do the job.  Just doesn't sound right.  I'd understand reliability as an issue with regards to money owed if I was applying to be a banker or financial advice professional, but I'm not.  I'm joining a physically demanding, thinking under pressure job that demands clear thinking.  It doesn't say, ability to pay back your debts as a requirement for being an artillery gunner is my point.  It says the ladder.

Haha, bit of a rant cause I'll be pissed if I don't get into the reserves while owing just 10k when it has in my mind and anyone thinking logically, nothing to do with doing the job.  In fact, that debt was mostly attained by better myself as a person by going to school which in turn helps the army cause they have a more educated soldier.

It sounds to me from what I've read that it depends on the individual recruiter and not a standard by which the CF says,, you owe certain amount and if ur over that limit or missed a certain amount of payments and your out.

So I ask, is it more luck of the draw in dealing with one of the more "understanding" recruiters who adhere to the ladder statement when accepting recruits rather than considering you to have bad (coordination) because you owe money?


----------



## PMedMoe

Didn't you pretty much post the same thing here?  

Someone here said it best (and I'm paraphrasing), "You choose the CF, it doesn't choose you."

Start paying your bills and get over it.  If they take you, great, if not, guess it was just "luck of the draw".  You had some advice in your last thread (which got locked), why not take it?


----------



## 097004610

I know this has been talked about many of times.  Everyone has debt.  I currently owe 35,000 in student loans. I think there issue with credit is the type and more importantly, can you pay it.  Now student loans are what one would consider a good debt, however, you need to pay them on time.  Owing money on a cell phone or having anything sent to collections show's irresponsibility and over-extension of means.  

All, I am saying is the CF isn't to blame for your situation, you need to be accountable and grow up.  Fix your situation and you should have no problem.  I forgot to mention, I also went bankrupt in 2007, cleaned my act up and all is good.


----------



## gcclarke

Vimy_gunner said:
			
		

> My debt is no laughing matter, but at the same time 10k of debt at 31 is considerably less than most my age.  I mean, my debt won't affect my ability to fire a gun or run through the woods or work your butt off doing some heavy labor.





> I say this for all those out there (possibly myself if I don't get lucky) who are being denied an opportunity to represent their country when their is a worker shortage as it is and being an infantry soldier for example and putting yourself in harms way has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with debt.  Perhaps psychological testing of what's in a persons heart, etc and how they deal with pressure when it hits would be a more accurate way of testing reliability considering it states these things are the skills that are important for being able to do your job.





> I'd understand reliability as an issue with regards to money owed if I was applying to be a banker or financial advice professional, but I'm not.  I'm joining a physically demanding, thinking under pressure job that demands clear thinking.  It doesn't say, ability to pay back your debts as a requirement for being an artillery gunner is my point.  It says the ladder.





> So I ask, is it more luck of the draw in dealing with one of the more "understanding" recruiters who adhere to the ladder statement when accepting recruits rather than considering you to have bad (coordination) because you owe money?



See, now these quotes above illustrate to me where your problem lies. You appear to be under the impression that what you do away from your place of employment has nothing to do whatsoever with your capability to do that job. This is, very often, an incorrect assumption.

A key trait of a soldier, sailor, or airman or airwoman is trustworthiness. When one of them tell you that they have done something, you should be able to trust that they are not lying to you. When one of them tells you that they will do something, you should be able to rest assured that it is going to get done.

And, unfortunately, a bad credit history is rather indicative of a lack of trustworthiness. It means that someone was given something valuable, in exchange for a promise to make repayments on an agreed upon schedule, and then reneged upon said promise. Mind you, there may certainly be extenuating circumstances, such as unexpected loss of a a job, an injury that prevented work, or just plain old poor planning. 

And, much in the same way that a gambling, alcohol, or drug problem can still be an issue even if the person is never late to work and always shows up sober. Someone who "needs" a lot of money, for whatever reason, is more likely to be a security risk, whether it be stealing small valuable items from work, money from others, embezzling public funds, or selling state secrets. 

Again, I'm not trying to imply that this will be so in your case, or even in the majority of cases. But it does certainly increase the likelihood or any particular person becoming an administrative burden upon the system. From what I can tell, however, it's the trustworthiness issue that is felt to be the "key". It is not really the sheer amount of debt that is taken into consideration, but whether or not someone has been making their required payments, without being "forced to", ie before things are sent to collections. 



> Not too long ago it was a choice, jail or military.  Considering how much we kicked *** with our much smaller numbers in military engagements throughout history, would it not be accurate to say that many of those guys who chose military over jail would have never passed the reliability testing?  Answer is again, a yes.  Criminals were doing their jobs in a reliable manner, but now they question if someone who owes a few k's can do the job.  Just doesn't sound right.


As for this, I was under the impression that this was an American habit, not a Canadian one. Feel free to correct me by providing a link to a relevant source. But, regardless, the fact of the matter is that we, on a whole, expect more out of both our officers and enlisted men and women than we may have in the past. And, with greater levels of responsibility even at lower ranks comes a requirement for greater levels of trustworthiness. 

And I should note that even our American brethren no longer engage in this particular practice.


----------



## Vimy_gunner

I did take the advice pointed out previously by a poster and started making payments on my cell bill, although not much since I'm broke until graduating in April.  

I do agree that to some people missing a payment or not making a payment because you can't shows a lack of trustworthiness; however, I show up for my current part-time job and every single class in college along with being relied upon to show up and coach an under-12 boys soccer team twice a week and my lack of cell phone payments hasn't affected that.  Come rain or snow, I'm the guy who always makes it to soccer practice and I can be counted upon by my friends to be where I say I'm going to be, when I say I'll be there.  

Personally, I don't need a lot of money to live off of and after graduating from Journalism I'll be making enough that 10k of debt, mostly due to student loans, will disappear quite fast and that's my plan.  My ideals as a Christian would never allow me to steal, even if I owed millions of dollars, I'd never steal from the CF.  I'd feel guilty about taking a bloody pen and not returning it, lol.  Considering my 10k of debt will easily be paid off by my civilian job with a newspaper in a fast manner, I don't think I should be considered an administrative problem. 

I do need to "grow up" as a previous poster who went through that phase alluded to.  Having a debt is one of the very few areas that I need to rectify with regards to growing up and I'm now working on it.  Then again, just about every single person I know has a larger debt than me.  Not many have the opportunity to be completely debt free at 31 within a time period of one year.   The growing up aspect would be making my payments on time and I'm working on it now.  In that specific respect I haven't shown trustworthiness.

Maybe it sounded like I was blaming the CF, but that's not the case.  I realize it's my debt and will clear it up.  I just hope that I don't have to wait another year to totally clear that up and join the CF.  

I understand that more is required of soldiers than in the past and that's a good thing.  I'm just hoping that the army will see that my debt of 10k will be paid for fast and that won't disrupt how fast I am accepted.  I do have a bad payment history and I did neglect the responsibility of not paying for them, but my situation in April after graduating is vastly different with regards to pay.  

Having your salary go up from 14k a year to 35k, plus money earned in the Reserves makes paying for cell bills, etc, much more manageable.  So, I'm hoping the CF will understand that I'll not have money troubles like the past because I'll simply have quite a bit more. 

Thanks to everyone who responded.  Part of the process is talking about your garbage, lol.  Talked about it, now I'm doing something about it.


----------



## bomber12

I am 20 years old and been really lazy/stupid waste of life over the past few years which have caused some problems I am trying to fix.

I have been having creditors after me for a while now. I am currently looking for work and its not going so well as things are slow. I cannot pay off my debts until I get a job. 
Well going to a credit counselor help my credit score and in return not hold me back on my application process?
Also I have not filed taxes in a couple years (I have been really stupid and fucking lazy for a long time and trying to change my life so I am doing my best to get on top of things) and plan on doing it soon. This is bad I know but if I do file my taxes right away well things be ok?


----------



## gcclarke

bomber12 said:
			
		

> I am 20 years old and been really lazy/stupid waste of life over the past few years which have caused some problems I am trying to fix.
> 
> I have been having creditors after me for a while now. I am currently looking for work and its not going so well as things are slow. I cannot pay off my debts until I get a job.
> Well going to a credit counselor help my credit score and in return not hold me back on my application process?
> Also I have not filed taxes in a couple years (I have been really stupid and ******* lazy for a long time and trying to change my life so I am doing my best to get on top of things) and plan on doing it soon. This is bad I know but if I do file my taxes right away well things be ok?



Yes, going to a credit counselor is very likely to only help your credit rating, and in turn help your application process. Remember, we look at your credit history during the application process.

I can't guarantee that filing your taxes right away would instantly make things all better, but I think it's safe to say that the sooner you file your taxes, the sooner you'll be on the road to being "ok".


----------



## NightEcho

Thought I would add a little here.

I currently have a mortgage, student loans and a line of credit (cost of seperation, bah). I owe about 23k in unsecured debt + mortgage. Despite this, I have never missed a payment on anything I owed and have a fairly good credit score. 

None of this was brought up as an issue during my interview and beyond.


----------



## aesop081

NightEcho said:
			
		

> None of this was brought up as an issue during my interview and beyond.


  

Did you read the thread at all ?



> I have never missed a payment on anything



Therefore your debt was not brought up. If you had been a bad boy/girl and were in serious default with any of them, it would have been brough up. You have debt and its up to date = we dont care.


----------



## Sigop12

I have a bit of debt, but always make my payments and I'm not in arrears or any trouble with creditors. The CF called me and told me I have the job and I will be sworn in on Thursday. Will my outstanding debt make me not eligible? I remember during the interview the Lt. asked me if I had any financial issues and I said no. Said no because it is not a concern and I can pay it off no problem, but I'm not sure of the Canadian Force's stance on any debt at all. 

I dropped out of college and handed in my resignation for my current job so I hope they don't change their mind at the last second.

Am I good to go?


----------



## Occam

The CF doesn't care if you have debt.

*Bad* debt (collections, legal action, bankruptcy, consumer proposals) is another matter.  

You're fine.


----------



## Sigop12

"MS Mick:   if you have already been told you are being sworn in... you should be good to go " From the Forces.ca live recruiter

Phew! I've been training for 8 months now! lol Didn't want all of this to go to waste.


----------



## Occam

P.S.  That info would've been found if you had done a search.  Make sure you follow the site guidelines...


----------



## Sigop12

Okay, sorry Occam.


----------



## Occam

No probs, it's not me you have to worry about - it's the moderators.


----------



## j.penner210

I just submitted my application on wedsnday and have my CFAT April 6. I was wondering at what point in the process do they typically look over your credit? I have a cell phone bill that got sent to collections that is about $830. I dont have a job to pay it off, but I am getting around 450 next week, if I pay half of it off will it show up on my credit report that I paid half of it off? Or will it not matter untill I pay it all off?

Thanks


----------



## HavocSteve

What kind of "scar" does Bankruptcy leave you in once you have already gone through the interview and everything. ATM, i'm just in limbo with Ottawa doing a credit check. Personally the credit isn't to bad (under 15k) which could be gone during my time in BMQ and SQ. I just don't want my bad judgment in past to hurt my process of trying to build my future. I was looking into Bankruptcy just to eliminate it all and get a new "start" so I can move forward. Just wondering what the CF's outlook would be on it. I know I would have to contact my recruiter and get whatever he needs to be in paperwork and such, just worried if I do such a thing, it might hinder my chance at my dream.


----------



## Occam

This question seems to get asked pretty often, and I'm not sure why.  There are lots of threads dealing with it.

In any event, here's the CF's line on personal debt.

*The CF does not care about your debt, if it is in good standing* - regardless of the amount.  It's your personal matter.

*The CF does care about bad debt.*  This includes payments gone into collections, garnishment of wages, court judgments, bankruptcies, and consumer proposals.

If you're considering consumer proposal or bankruptcy, then the CF considers this an "unresolved legal matter", and you would not be eligible for enrolment until the terms of the consumer proposal are met, or until the bankruptcy is discharged (a couple of months, at most,  to assemble the bankruptcy, and 9 months from filing to discharge).

If you have outstanding (bad) debt, or debt gone to collections, I believe that if you make concrete payment arrangements, and stick to them, the CF may entertain your enrolment at their discretion.  They may require the debt to be paid out in full, I'm not sure.  Again, not gospel, but that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember.

edit:  It is incumbent upon the applicant to satisfy the recruiting system that they will not be recruiting someone with excess administrative baggage.  Getting pulled out of BMQ or later stages of training to deal with court matters related to financial mismanagement would not be looked upon lightly.  If you get your financial house in order by making arrangements with your debtors, it would probably go a long way towards a favourable enrolment process, but it's the recruiters' judgement call in the end.  Were I in the position of an applicant with bad debt, I would take all reasonable steps to prove that I can be responsible.


----------



## HavocSteve

I understand. It's just Ottawa waiting on a credit check and I know I've made mistakes. I've done what was necessary in order to tell collections that I've lost my job and until I get employment, well... sorry but I can't do nothing. For me being only 21, the 15k or so debt that I do have (mainly because of a car loan), it seems impossible to get over since my hometown offers little for employment at the moment. That's why I asked about the bankruptcy, it would be nice to start "fresh" and just eat the bad credit rating (not like I don't already have one), and just move forward with the CF as a career. The only other thing is to pay some of the debt off with Income tax and hopefully the CF will be pleased with that.

Another question:

If you get into contact with everyone you owe money to, and get them to mail you letters saying that if you do get employment from the CF, they will be pleased to get the monthly payments. Would the CF be content with that? or would some miracle be in order?

I'm under the impression that a credit counselor is used when you have employment. As I am not employed, it seems that my options are very limited.


----------



## Greymatters

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> If you get into contact with everyone you owe money to, and get them to mail you letters saying that if you do get employment from the CF, they will be pleased to get the monthly payments. Would the CF be content with that? or would some miracle be in order?
> 
> I'm under the impression that a credit counselor is used when you have employment. As I am not employed, it seems that my options are very limited.



Free credit advice for you - get rid of 'all the people you owe money to' - consolidate your multiple owings into a single debt that is held by a reputable institution at a reasonable interest rate...


----------



## Occam

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> I understand. It's just Ottawa waiting on a credit check and I know I've made mistakes. I've done what was necessary in order to tell collections that I've lost my job and until I get employment, well... sorry but I can't do nothing. For me being only 21, the 15k or so debt that I do have (mainly because of a car loan), it seems impossible to get over since my hometown offers little for employment at the moment. That's why I asked about the bankruptcy, it would be nice to start "fresh" and just eat the bad credit rating (not like I don't already have one), and just move forward with the CF as a career. The only other thing is to pay some of the debt off with Income tax and hopefully the CF will be pleased with that.



Not lecturing here, but I would hope that the measures you've taken so far would involve selling the car, and applying the proceeds to the loan.  You'd be surprised at what lenders will be "content" with, if you are willing to sit down and make payment arrangements with them, in exchange for them telling the CF that you're in a structured agreement.  Offer them $50/month.  Most lenders will be happy to see something - anything - coming in on the debt, as opposed to you filing bankruptcy and they only see pennies on the dollar.



> Another question:
> 
> If you get into contact with everyone you owe money to, and get them to mail you letters saying that if you do get employment from the CF, they will be pleased to get the monthly payments. Would the CF be content with that? or would some miracle be in order?



Not only do I think the CF would be leery of conditions like that, I think you'd have a hard time selling it to debtors.



> I'm under the impression that a credit counselor is used when you have employment. As I am not employed, it seems that my options are very limited.



That's not true at all.  Credit counselors are often (but not always) trustees in bankruptcy.  They are the experts who you should be consulting to find out your best way ahead.  You should be aware that there may be minimum levels of debt required in order to qualify for bankruptcy, depending on where you live - so a trustee/credit counsellor should really be your next visit.



			
				Greymatters said:
			
		

> Free credit advice for you - get rid of 'all the people you owe money to' - consolidate your multiple owings into a single debt that is held by a reputable institution at a reasonable interest rate...



That would be good advice - if he were employed.   ;D  There's not a lender out there who would touch him in this situation.


----------



## The_Unabooboo

Here's a posser.  I am working on getting a consolidation loan but the problem I have been having is that I was layed off last fall and thier saying that I'm not currently making enough at my present job to qualify.  So if the debt is getting bad dispite my efforts to correct it and keep it good can it effect how the forces look at my eligability?


----------



## Occam

The_Unabooboo said:
			
		

> Here's a posser.  I am working on getting a consolidation loan but the problem I have been having is that I was layed off last fall and thier saying that I'm not currently making enough at my present job to qualify.  So if the debt is getting bad dispite my efforts to correct it and keep it good can it effect how the forces look at my eligability?



It's a crappy situation all around.  You need the consolidation loan to get the monthly payments to a manageable level, but you're not making enough to qualify for the consolidation loan.  If a bank is one of your major creditors, it would be in their best interest to cut you the consolidation loan, because if they don't, you just spiral until you're forced to make a consumer proposal or file bankruptcy, and they'll only see pennies on the dollar.  Again, see a credit counsellor - they are the experts at getting you out of financial hot water, if at all possible.

Unfortunately, the CF is just going to look at it as an unresolved issue (assuming you're at the point where your credit rating is taking hits), and they won't enroll you until you have it resolved.


----------



## Delta26

FNG here,

 I've got a question in regards to this topic. Currently my pay is being garnished for payments in an outstanding matter, and the amount owing is approx 4k. When i was on E.I. i was making payments on that amount as well. Will that effect the processing of my app?


----------



## Neolithium

I would check with your local CFRC - I had some outstanding debts when I applied but the staff here gave me some great advice, I went straight to one of the nonprofit credit counselling services and immediately made arrangements with them and started payments (The whole process with them was approximately a month before creditors agreed to the payment plans).  My MCC just requested that I bring a letter from the counselor handling my arrangements, a copy of the agreement and the receipts for payments being made.   The payments are quite small, everyone is happy and my application moved right along about a month after dropping the requested paperwork off.


----------



## Delta26

see, there's the problem. it's to the government.


----------



## gcclarke

I'm not sure I see why that would make a big difference. The steps to resolve the issues are the same. Talk to credit counseling services, and use their help to make arrangements for payment to your creditors. Who you owe the money too, at worst, only changes the potential consequences if you do end up not being able to make any payments.


----------



## stealthylizard

I was having the same problem with some debt before I enlisted.  I contacted the collection agency, made a deal with them that I would pay x amount of dollars every month.  I then had them fax that agreement to the recruiting center to show the CF it was being dealt with.  That was all that was required, an "intent" to pay.


----------



## 2010newbie

I monitor my credit history fairly closely; I have a credit watch service that notifies me when a change or enquiry is made and I download a copy every 3 - 6 months. Even though I've accepted an offer and my enrolment ceremony is in less than two months, there is no record of an enquiry (even a soft enquiry) by the CF or anyone else since I submitted my application. Do they have a sneaky way of checking credit that doesn't get recorded? I contacted the CFRC to ensure everything was completed and they said it was. I'm not concerned about the report, just thought it was weird that the enquiry didn't show up.


----------



## Robbie4296

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> I was having the same problem with some debt before I enlisted.  I contacted the collection agency, made a deal with them that I would pay x amount of dollars every month.  I then had them fax that agreement to the recruiting center to show the CF it was being dealt with.  That was all that was required, an "intent" to pay.



I did the exact same thing, instead of a fax, would a copy of my bank records showing the payments be just as good?


----------



## Occam

Robbie4296 said:
			
		

> I did the exact same thing, instead of a fax, would a copy of my bank records showing the payments be just as good?



No, the recruiting centre needs proof that your creditors are happy with the arrangements that have been made, therefore you'd need to show the agreement you entered into.


----------



## Robbie4296

Guess I better give them a call pretty soon and get them to start faxing stuff to me, thanks for the reply Occam.


----------



## HavocSteve

Alright, here's the .pdf I got from a Major in Ottawa. Pertains to the credit check situation. It is called "Financial Difficulties".

------------------------------------------------------------

A person's financial situation is not necessarily a barrier to enrolment. There are a number of considerations when assessing the impact this would have on one's application that include, but are not limited to, the conditions surrounding the accumulation of the debt and whether or not the situation is deteriorating or improving.

Applicants who have credit issues should be aware of the CF policy on the consequences of a member’s failure to settle private debts as per the relevant CF Administrative Order (CFAO). This order states in part that “when it is evident that the indebtedness of a member is having a detrimental effect on the efficiency of the member and counselling has not remedied the situation, the Commanding Officer should consider a report of shortcomings for Officers, counselling & probation for NCMs and/or release from the CF under a suitable release item.”
Version 

-------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Occam

Kind of goes along with everything that's been mentioned in this thread, right?


----------



## Robbie4296

Totally agree, I understood the entire thread, makes sense if you neglect some things, what else do you neglect? it was the providing proof thing I was wondering since alot of posts included "credit counsellers" where as I made arrangements directly with the collections themselves, I spoke to one today and they said they could not provide a letter to me for the CF so hopefully they will take my proof of payments in consideration, and made another deal with one today to drop the interest and cut it in half if I paid in full tonight, which I did, and they will send a letter of settlement anyways.


----------



## HavocSteve

Only thing is for myself, credit counselors sound awesome, if your employed. I haven't been able to even get a job at Tim Hortons for some reason, all the jobs in Oshawa are just sucked up so fast. I called one place, they want 500$ up front and every invoice that I have, which I do not have let alone all the paperwork (I was stupid but haven't the chance to make things right since no employment). Not looking for sympathy but right now, it seems my life is at a stand still. Kinda sucks, explained the situation at my interview with the Sgt. Hopefully after my CFAT at the end of this month, I can talk to the MCpl and hopefully pursued him with some fancy words (Doubt it), but the CF is something I've really wanted and I know my debt will be payed off before my first year ends. Just want a shoot at it, hopefully they give me a chance, all I'm looking for!


----------



## Robbie4296

If you contact the creditors, collections people directly and give them your situation and work out a payment plan, it should be fine.
Im my experience they don't really refuse any amount of payment given the amount owed and payment are somewhat realistic example-- you owe 10 000, and you offer 10.00 a month well thats not realistic and interest will swarm you if it hasn;t allready now if you owe 2500 and 50 to 100 a month now your talking, and barter with them, I owed 3000 and gave them my situation and we came up with a great deal, they waive all the interest and I pay 143.00/month, so from the original 3000 it went down to 1735.00!!! they want it closed and their money just as much as you want them to stop calling.

And another tip DON'T avoid them, it makes it worse trust me R9 is not cool, and while your paying them dont apply for any credit cards etc, inquiries in your credit bureau affects it big time.
A car dealership made 15 inquiries in mine some time, even though I told him if one finance company didn't approve leave it alone, he tried 15 companies and boy did it affect my score.How do I know all this well 2 good friends of mine work at Equifax and 1 friend is in collections!


----------



## Neolithium

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Only thing is for myself, credit counselors sound awesome, if your employed. I haven't been able to even get a job at Tim Hortons for some reason, all the jobs in Oshawa are just sucked up so fast. I called one place, they want 500$ up front and every invoice that I have, which I do not have let alone all the paperwork (I was stupid but haven't the chance to make things right since no employment). Not looking for sympathy but right now, it seems my life is at a stand still. Kinda sucks, explained the situation at my interview with the Sgt. Hopefully after my CFAT at the end of this month, I can talk to the MCpl and hopefully pursued him with some fancy words (Doubt it), but the CF is something I've really wanted and I know my debt will be payed off before my first year ends. Just want a shoot at it, hopefully they give me a chance, all I'm looking for!



Contact the United Way near your location; I know around various other parts of Canada they have non-profit credit counselors; for my personal situation I only was charged around $90 for administration stuff (To cover the costs of them running credit checks, and correspondence with various creditors), their negotiations were great as well, I had the interest frozen so it's not continuing as I go through the debt management program, as well as a few thousand dollars knocked off altogether on it.  Depending on the size of the debts it may be a good option, my current payments are only around $211/month.  Same day I had the payments arranged and dropped off the first cheque my rep printed off a letter for the CFRC with her contact information and the details of the arrangements in case they had any questions.


----------



## HavocSteve

Neolithium said:
			
		

> Contact the United Way near your location; I know around various other parts of Canada they have non-profit credit counselors; for my personal situation I only was charged around $90 for administration stuff (To cover the costs of them running credit checks, and correspondence with various creditors), their negotiations were great as well, I had the interest frozen so it's not continuing as I go through the debt management program, as well as a few thousand dollars knocked off altogether on it.  Depending on the size of the debts it may be a good option, my current payments are only around $211/month.  Same day I had the payments arranged and dropped off the first cheque my rep printed off a letter for the CFRC with her contact information and the details of the arrangements in case they had any questions.



I like the idea of this, but my problem is seeking out employment to start making payments. I've been working hard to get employed (dressing in pants and proper shirt like you would for an interview) but I've only had 1 interview that has lead no where. The only thing I can think of is going to college but I would have to fake an address in order to get a school loan (Mother makes close to 150k herself let alone with my Dad's income on top). I haven't been a burden on our system (Haven't gone to unemployment or anything), because I was hoping to land a job quickly, but that doesn't look like it now. So I'm hoping that the CF can look past my burden with debt and could give me a chance and just put all my proceeds to my debt which I'm sure a clerk could do for me quickly or once I start BMQ, get in touch with a credit counselor and move forward from there. Kinda sucks when the only thing holding you back from joining is past debt history. I see why they do it, but for some people it's a true burden.


----------



## aesop081

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> but for some people it's a true burden.



And that is exactly the point. Its a burden to you and we dont want it to end up a burden to us.


----------



## HavocSteve

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> And that is exactly the point. Its a burden to you and we dont want it to end up a burden to us.



That's why I pointed out, that I understand why they do that. Oshawa isn't exactly the downtown core where there are many jobs. Unfortunately, my parents don't give hand outs, so it's just hard to find employment within Oshawa so it's local.


----------



## McD

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> That's why I pointed out, that I understand why they do that. Oshawa isn't exactly the downtown core where there are many jobs. Unfortunately, my parents don't give hand outs, so it's just hard to find employment within Oshawa so it's local.



You have a GO Train to the downtown core...If you think jobs exist in abundance there try for it. Have you wore your fancy pants to a placement agency yet?
You could do this. 
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/lab/1785092579.html

Try here. I know you might think Im a jerk but seriously try this link. Craigslist Durham Region. You seem rather inexperienced to the idea of job hunting. You have given that impression to me at least, but no need to take offense this is the internet and Ivery well don't know you or story from Adam. But blaming the area in an area like the GTA(which youre accessible too, no)  ... sounds like excuses. Look to restaurants and box stores. High turn overs and if you up looking sharp and right attitude they may just say lets use him. But plan like 25 resumes will get you 1 call back. Seriously have applied to every gas station, boston pizza, General Motors, dealership, hotel, subway, McDonalds, BK, landscaper, drywaller, painter in town ?

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/lab/


----------



## ltmaverick25

WARNING: This is a very long post but worth the read for people having troubles.

I just finished reading this thread from start to finish and a lot of the advice being provided is, in my opinion off base.

Before I begin, prior to joining the regular force I worked in the financial services sector.  I was a loans officer at CIBC (the guy you would go to for a consolidation loan).  Afterwards I worked as a senior account manager, then financial planner with RBC Investments, and finally an Investment broker with TD Waterhouse…  This is my lane!

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ANY OF THIS WILL DO TO YOUR APPLICATION TO JOIN THE CF.  THIS IS JUST A STATEMENT ABOUT HOW DEBT AND BAD DEBT WILL AFFECT YOU AND MY ADVICE ON HOW TO DEAL WITH IT IF YOU ARE THAT FAR GONE.

Here is the deal.  You cannot qualify for a consolidation loan if you do not have the income to support the monthly payment that said consolidation loan would require you to make.  If you are unemployed, or you are making minimal income, NO FINANCIAL INSTITUTION will help you, even if it is in their best interests.

Furthermore, if you are already having trouble making payments it is too late.  Reason being, each month, each institution you owe money to reports to the credit bureau, either Equifax or Trans Union Credit.  They report the status of your loan.  R1 or I1 means you are up to date and no issues.  R2 or I2 means you are 30 days late and so on…

Once you fall into R2 and beyond your credit rating has just taken a beating and nobody is going to lend to you at reasonable rates.  Citibank Financial MAY chose to lend to you if you have an income but they are going to charge you 30% interest.  It’s just not worth it.  They engage in high risk lending so they charge higher rates to compensate.

You can try to call the institutions you owe money to but I can already tell you how that’s going to go.  They will not budge at all.  Trust me folks, I have tried this for clients time and time again, and no dice.  It’s not going to happen.  HOWEVER, what will happen is they will get fed up with you and send your file off to a collection agency.  Here is what that means.

Let’s pretend you owe $1000.  They will sell that loan to a collection agency for say $750.  The collection agency will then try to collect the full $1000 from you.  All of these agencies are different.  Some are nice and reason with you, others will try to intimidate you or your spouse with financial repercussions.  But, they will often entertain payment proposals.  But here is the problem, once it gets to this point it’s already too late!!!!

You will be showing up as an R9 or I9 by the original company that you owned this money to.  So no matter what arrangement you make with the credit agency, your credit rating is finished.  However, if you cooperate with the collection agencies they wont report you as a collection debt, which is another thing altogether.

Now on to consumer proposals…  Its simple, DON’T EVER EVER EVER do a consumer proposal.  Here’s why.  By doing this, your consumer proposal reps will take control of your affairs, and they will approach the financial institutions you owe money to and MAKE things work.  (If you are unemployed this won’t work, you simply don’t make any money, how are you going to repay any arrangement?)  When I say MAKE things work, they will negotiate in good faith, failing that they will use the courts to IMPOSE a payment arrangement on the institutions you owe money to.

What does this mean?

Those companies will stop bothering you, or won’t refer you to collection agencies.  HOWEVER, you will be stuck paying back all of this debt over a VERY long period of time and your credit score will be RUINED.  And it won’t bounce back until AFTER you have repaid the dept in full.  Bad bad bad.

There is zero benefit to you in a consumer proposal, but lots of benefit to the company you owe money to.

If your situation is bad enough to warrant a consumer proposal then declare bankruptcy.

Here is what happens if you do this.

You approach a bankruptcy trustee.  They go over all your information.  Tell them EVERYTHING.  Do not leave any debt out, make sure they know it all, this will help you later.  After they review your case, they will advise you on weather this is a reasonable option for you.  If it is they will move forward.

You will have to make monthly payments to them for approx 7-9 months.  The money they receive from you (usually quite minimal) will be divided up and given to the institutions you owe money to.  After this 7-9 month period, you will be discharged.  What this means is that you are no longer legally required to repay this debt.  In effect, after completing the discharge period on your bankruptcy you are debt free.  And, your credit is ruined.

See where I am going with this?  In either case, be it a consumer proposal or a bankruptcy your credit is absolutely ruined.  You have absolutely nothing to gain financially (personal feelings on debt are an altogether different matter and I have zero interest in discussing them, I’m talking only cold hard financial fact) by doing a consumer proposal.  By declaring bankruptcy, you will rid yourself completely of your debt (note there are a few exceptions, certain student loans depending on how long you have been out of school and other items may not be included in this), and are now able to start over, however your credit is ruined.

No major Canadian bank will touch you until at least 2 years after you have been discharged from a bankruptcy, some of them longer then others but 2 years is the absolute minimum.  So don’t expect to borrow anything in that timeframe.  But you should not want to borrow anything after your ordeal so this part is not so much of a concern.

You are now free to start rebuilding your credit once discharged.  The problem is, finding someone to do business with you.  With a consumer proposal there is no repairing your credit until after that bad debt is paid, and that takes a long long time.

The good news is there are places that will do business with you once you have been discharged from bankruptcy.  Capital One Canada Inc will issue you a MasterCard.  Here is what will happen.  You will apply, and be honest about your situation.  They will either approve you for a $500 dollar card, or they will decline you and automatically offer you a secured card.  What this means is that you give them $500 and they use this money to secure against your card.  You will now have a $500 MasterCard to use.  If you fail to repay for any reason, they use your $500 to pay off your debt.  No risk to them, so they are willing to do it.  You start using your new MasterCard and you make sure to make your monthly payments on it on time.  Better yet, pay the balance in full every month.  Within a year or so if you have been a good boy or girl with your credit card they will give you your $500 back and you will have re-established a moderate credit rating and the major banks will start looking at you again.

NOTE: DO NOT GET A CARD FROM CAPITAL ONE UNLESS YOU ARE EMPLOYED.  There is no point in getting a new credit card if you cannot make the payments because if you screw up this opportunity to rebuild your credit, you are absolutely finished.

If you are employed and get a new card and then lose your job call Capital One right away and tell them to cancel your card.  They will use your $500 to pay off whatever you owe and mail you back the remaining amount and no harm done.  DON’T WAIT UNTIL AFTER YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE MAKING PAYMENTS TO DO THIS!!!!!

Aside from Capital One, there is one other company that will make a similar arrangement for a credit card.  I forget the name of the company; I will look it up and get you the info.  They offer a visa.  It is a $1500 card.  You mail them a money order for $1500 and they give you a visa for that amount.  They use your money to secure the card just like the previous example.  You can do one, or either or both.  Doing both is not a bad idea; it will help rebuild credit faster however you MUST make prompt payments.  You cannot mess this up.  The more of these programs you enter the faster your credit can rebuild but the more opportunity to screw up and forget a payment is also present.  Chose wisely and don’t screw it up.

You can also approach your local credit union and make a similar arrangement with a small loan.  The beauty with this is you don’t need to come up with the money to start off with.  

Here is how it works.  You talk to the loans officer and are COMPLETELY HONEST WITH THEM.  Tell them what happened.  Tell them you are discharged (don’t try this until you are discharged) and tell them you want to rebuild your credit.  They will accommodate you.  What they will do is issue you a small loan.  Start off with $1000.  So they give you a $1000 loan, but they do not give you the money.  They take the money and invest it in a Guaranteed Investment Certificate (GIC) and secure this GIC against your loan.  You earn interest on this GIC however the interest you pay on your loan is greater.  But it is a small loan and you will usually only take a 6 month – 1 year long term.  The interest you pay will be negligible, and the interest you earn on your GIC will be even more negligible.  But the point is you now have a loan to repay.  DO NOT SCREW THIS UP!!!! Make your monthly payments promptly.  Pay off your loan properly.  If you lose your job or get into trouble go straight to your loans officer and tell him to repay the loan with the GIC right away.  He will do so and give you what is left on the GIC.  No harm done.  It’s a risk free adventure for them and it’s a win situation for you as long as you don’t screw it up.  Once you have repaid your loan in full they will release that $1000 GIC to you.  Consider it a savings plan.

Again if you are unemployed don’t bother.  Get a job first and then start doing this.

If you get one of the above mentioned credit cards and one small loan from your credit bureau, you will re-establish your credit within a few years and you are back in business.

You cannot do any of this if you do a consumer proposal.  BAD BAD BAD, stay away from these.

Six years after the date of discharge the bankruptcy will no longer show up on your credit rating and will no longer have any negative impact, unless of course you screw up again.  But if you do things properly as I have stated above your credit rating will be established before the six year mark.

This is just a basic overview of what you need to know if you are starting to have trouble, and what everyone else should know before they start getting into trouble in the first place.

Once again, I cannot say what impact any of this will have on your application to join the CF.  What I can tell you is that a bankruptcy will not prevent you from gaining a security clearance in of itself.  However, if you have gone bankrupt and don’t take appropriate measures or are still a big mess with your finances, then you are likely screwed.

If you end up having to go bankrupt twice, then I have no sympathy for you and am not interested in providing any help or advice.  But aside from this statement, know that everyone makes mistakes, and unfortunately some of them get into trouble with their debt.  It is not the end of the world and it will not cancel your life.  You can rebuild and bounce back.  Don’t hold your head in shame just don’t make the same mistakes in the future and live happily ever after.  It happens to the best of them.  Many of my clients had it happen to them.  I’m not saying this to justify unnecessary bankruptcy, rather, I know from first hand experience with clients how mentally and emotionally stressful it can be.  It doesn’t have to be that way if you take the right action and deal with things properly.  If you have specific questions send me a PM.  Chances are I will know someone in your neck of the woods that may be able to help you.

A note on buying a house:

A mortgage is a secured loan against your house.  Typically this is the easiest type of loan to qualify for as it presents little risk to the banks.  If you go bankrupt you WILL be able to buy a house in the future.  Usually around 2 years after you are discharged you will be eligible for a mortgage again.  If you are able to come up with a 25% down payment, meaning if your house costs 100,000, you come up with 25,000 down, then you will avoid CMHC and approvals are easier.  If you cannot get that much money together, you can still get qualified but CMHC will make it more difficult for you and you will be stuck paying a higher interest rate.  But it is still doable.  I have approved many mortgages for people who have been bankrupt.


----------



## Robbie4296

Fantastic post!!


----------



## Occam

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> Now on to consumer proposals…  Its simple, DON’T EVER EVER EVER do a consumer proposal.  Here’s why.  By doing this, your consumer proposal reps will take control of your affairs, and they will approach the financial institutions you owe money to and MAKE things work.  (If you are unemployed this won’t work, you simply don’t make any money, how are you going to repay any arrangement?)  When I say MAKE things work, they will negotiate in good faith, failing that they will use the courts to IMPOSE a payment arrangement on the institutions you owe money to.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> Those companies will stop bothering you, or won’t refer you to collection agencies.  HOWEVER, you will be stuck paying back all of this debt over a VERY long period of time and your credit score will be RUINED.  And it won’t bounce back until AFTER you have repaid the dept in full.  Bad bad bad.
> 
> There is zero benefit to you in a consumer proposal, but lots of benefit to the company you owe money to.



I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, as a lot of the information above is incorrect.

First, consumer proposals are viable options for some people, depending on their financial situation and assets.  Certain assets are protected under consumer proposals; however, under bankruptcy they are subject to seizure.  

Consumer proposals register as R7s with creditors, as opposed to R9 with bankruptcy.  Consumer proposals are removed from the credit record three years after completion of the terms of the proposal;  bankruptcy stays on six years after discharge.  The maximum length of a consumer proposal is five years, and it is rare that they go that long.



> If your situation is bad enough to warrant a consumer proposal then declare bankruptcy.
> 
> Here is what happens if you do this.
> 
> You approach a bankruptcy trustee.  They go over all your information.  Tell them EVERYTHING.  Do not leave any debt out, make sure they know it all, this will help you later.  After they review your case, they will advise you on weather this is a reasonable option for you.  If it is they will move forward.
> 
> You will have to make monthly payments to them for approx 7-9 months.  The money they receive from you (usually quite minimal) will be divided up and given to the institutions you owe money to.  After this 7-9 month period, you will be discharged.  What this means is that you are no longer legally required to repay this debt.  In effect, after completing the discharge period on your bankruptcy you are debt free.  And, your credit is ruined.



The rules on bankruptcy changed in September 2009.  A first time bankrupt with no surplus income (as calculated by the trustee) will take 9 months to discharge.  A first time bankrupt with surplus income will now go at least *21* months before discharge, while making minimum payments of *$100* to the trustee for disbursement.  The debt limit to be qualified for consumer proposal was increased from $75,000 to $250,000.



> See where I am going with this?  In either case, be it a consumer proposal or a bankruptcy your credit is absolutely ruined.  You have absolutely nothing to gain financially (personal feelings on debt are an altogether different matter and I have zero interest in discussing them, I’m talking only cold hard financial fact) by doing a consumer proposal.  By declaring bankruptcy, you will rid yourself completely of your debt (note there are a few exceptions, certain student loans depending on how long you have been out of school and other items may not be included in this), and are now able to start over, however your credit is ruined.



Again, depending on the financial situation, there can be merit in consumer proposals.  Interest is dropped to 0% on accounts included in the proposal.  If your income increases (such as someone joining the Forces, for example), the payments made under a consumer proposal do not change; under bankruptcy, the payments to the trustee would be adjusted upwards.  That's a particularly important aspect of interest to potential recruits.



> You are now free to start rebuilding your credit once discharged.  The problem is, finding someone to do business with you.  With a consumer proposal there is no repairing your credit until after that bad debt is paid, and that takes a long long time.



Not entirely true.  The simple act of getting a secured credit card while carrying out the terms of a consumer proposal will start a favorable entry on the credit record.  It won't change the overall score, but when the consumer proposal disappears, there will be favorable history, instead of no credit history.



> If you get one of the above mentioned credit cards and one small loan from your credit bureau, you will re-establish your credit within a few years and you are back in business.
> 
> You cannot do any of this if you do a consumer proposal.  BAD BAD BAD, stay away from these.



Not true.  You can still seek credit while under the terms of a consumer proposal.

In summary, much of what you've said is sage advice, with a few noted exceptions.

The absolute best advice should be to seek the input of a trustee in bankruptcy.


----------



## HavocSteve

McD said:
			
		

> You have a GO Train to the downtown core...If you think jobs exist in abundance there try for it. Have you wore your fancy pants to a placement agency yet?
> You could do this.
> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/lab/1785092579.html
> 
> Try here. I know you might think Im a jerk but seriously try this link. Craigslist Durham Region. You seem rather inexperienced to the idea of job hunting. You have given that impression to me at least, but no need to take offense this is the internet and Ivery well don't know you or story from Adam. But blaming the area in an area like the GTA(which youre accessible too, no)  ... sounds like excuses. Look to restaurants and box stores. High turn overs and if you up looking sharp and right attitude they may just say lets use him. But plan like 25 resumes will get you 1 call back. Seriously have applied to every gas station, boston pizza, General Motors, dealership, hotel, subway, McDonalds, BK, landscaper, drywaller, painter in town ?
> 
> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/lab/



Thanks for the advice but it's a 20$ taxi to the GO Train from my house. I live at the north end closer to courtice. I've been job searching on localworks.ca and have been looking at the newspaper aswell. It's all in luck tbh and for myself, I'm not a very lucky guy at all.


----------



## Occam

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice but it's a 20$ taxi to the GO Train from my house. I live at the north end closer to courtice. I've been job searching on localworks.ca and have been looking at the newspaper aswell. It's all in luck tbh and for myself, I'm not a very lucky guy at all.



Have you tried the Job Bank?  http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/res-eng.aspx?CommGrouping=GON013&OfferpPage=50&Student=No


----------



## Robbie4296

Job Bank is very good resource, also call Landscaping companies, there allways looing for Labourers.


----------



## HavocSteve

Thanks for the job bank link. Emailed a few places since they have updated the site. I was emailing people my resume 2-3 times and received emails back saying they didn't want to hire me.


----------



## Robbie4296

Personally I used to just go through the Yellow pages and call places, or just go to workplaces and see if there hiring, somebody's got to be hiring Mc Donalds, carwash, walmart etc. Sobeys is allways looking this i know 100% right now is prime time for staffing and sales


----------



## SeanNewman

Robbie4296 said:
			
		

> Personally I used to just go through the Yellow pages and call places, or just go to workplaces and see if there hiring...



Maybe you're spelling "they're" wrong on your resume?   

I keed, I keed.


----------



## Robbie4296

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Maybe you're spelling "they're" wrong on your resume?
> 
> I keed, I keed.



Oh I don't need one of those resume thingy's I have been in the Electrical Trade for 3 years and my job is pretty secure as long as I show up, but thanks on the spelling correction, that is one of my weak subjects I have been trying to improve, getting the "there's" right and putting together proper sentence's and spelling , grammar etc.......... you get the point, hook on phonics is maybe a must buy lololol
Since posting on here I think I have improved much, spelling, sentence structure is pretty important in this forum!


----------



## 2010newbie

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Thanks for the job bank link. Emailed a few places since they have updated the site. I was emailing people my resume 2-3 times and received emails back saying they didn't want to hire me.



Here's a link to a bunch of employment assistance centres in Durham.

http://www.unemployedhelp.on.ca/EWIN/path3.htm

I will PM my personal email address to you and if you want, you can forward your resume to me and I can take a look at it. I'm assuming you don't have a car from the taxi comment in an earlier post, but do you have access to the transit system in Oshawa at all? The company I work for has a location in south Whitby and occasionally needs temporary entry level help (warehouse type work). I can forward your resume to them if you are interested.


----------



## HavocSteve

2010newbie said:
			
		

> Here's a link to a bunch of employment assistance centres in Durham.
> 
> http://www.unemployedhelp.on.ca/EWIN/path3.htm
> 
> I will PM my personal email address to you and if you want, you can forward your resume to me and I can take a look at it. I'm assuming you don't have a car from the taxi comment in an earlier post, but do you have access to the transit system in Oshawa at all? The company I work for has a location in south Whitby and occasionally needs temporary entry level help (warehouse type work). I can forward your resume to them if you are interested.



I do have a car. Unfortunately, it's a late model BMW and being my age costs quite a bit to insure. I sent you an email aswell as a PM. Thank you for your help, it's more help then my parents even offer. Very much appreciated.


----------



## aesop081

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> I do have a car. Unfortunately, it's a late model BMW and being my age costs quite a bit to insure.



So get rid of it.


----------



## HavocSteve

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So get rid of it.



It's a collectors car. I put weeks of work into it. I wouldn't get nearly what it's true value is back so therefor it will stay in the driveway till it rusts to nothing. Not only that, but afterwards, I'll be stranded if I do land a job =\


----------



## DexOlesa

Don't put coverage on it. Just Liability could half your payments.


----------



## aesop081

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> It's a collectors car. I put weeks of work into it. I wouldn't get nearly what it's true value is back so therefor it will stay in the driveway till it rusts to nothing. Not only that, but afterwards, I'll be stranded if I do land a job =\




 :brickwall:


----------



## 2010newbie

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> It's a collectors car. I put weeks of work into it. I wouldn't get nearly what it's true value is back so therefor it will stay in the driveway till it rusts to nothing. Not only that, but afterwards, I'll be stranded if I do land a job =\



It is a car, you will never get your perceived value back for it. If it is a collectors car then it requires a lot of upkeep and proper storage to maintain it's worth. I'm assuming your lack of financial resources and your driveway do not allow for that sort of commitment to a vehicle. I have a 1984 Jeep CJ7 that I felt similarly for. I still have it, but it is a big pile of rust and isn't worth a tenth of what it was when I parked it. 

It helps to have a car when working, but you can tough it out in the short-term through the Oshawa transit system and other resources I'm sure. I lived in Port Perry and I used to ride my bicycle to the Oshawa Centre for work. I also lived in North Oshawa near Taunton and Simcoe. I was working at Hopkins and Consumers in South Whitby; I rode my bicycle there as well. Yeah it sucked in the rain and all the other crap, but I was in wicked shape by the time I had enough money saved and coming in to afford a vehicle.

Maybe you can take some of the money you would get from selling the vehicle and put it towards your debt. Anything that can get you farther ahead. Sometimes we have to make the hard, but smart decisions to ensure long term success. The biggest problem is that those decisions usually come with short-term pain.

Have you tried submitting your resumes to temporary agencies? Also, look into those employment help centres I posted earlier, especially Vocational Pathways. When I started the Canadian office for the company I currently work for, I used Vocational Pathways to screen out potential candidates and they also had government employment subsidies for some people that qualified. This worked really well for us because we were too small at the time to afford a full-time HR and office staff, but utilizing their HR services and subsidies we were able to get off the ground quickly. It can give you an edge over other candidates if you can have a portion of your salary subsidized and it gets you the valuable work experience you need.


----------



## HavocSteve

2010newbie said:
			
		

> It is a car, you will never get your perceived value back for it. If it is a collectors car then it requires a lot of upkeep and proper storage to maintain it's worth. I'm assuming your lack of financial resources and your driveway do not allow for that sort of commitment to a vehicle. I have a 1984 Jeep CJ7 that I felt similarly for. I still have it, but it is a big pile of rust and isn't worth a tenth of what it was when I parked it.
> 
> It helps to have a car when working, but you can tough it out in the short-term through the Oshawa transit system and other resources I'm sure. I lived in Port Perry and I used to ride my bicycle to the Oshawa Centre for work. I also lived in North Oshawa near Taunton and Simcoe. I was working at Hopkins and Consumers in South Whitby; I rode my bicycle there as well. Yeah it sucked in the rain and all the other crap, but I was in wicked shape by the time I had enough money saved and coming in to afford a vehicle.
> 
> Maybe you can take some of the money you would get from selling the vehicle and put it towards your debt. Anything that can get you farther ahead. Sometimes we have to make the hard, but smart decisions to ensure long term success. The biggest problem is that those decisions usually come with short-term pain.
> 
> Have you tried submitting your resumes to temporary agencies? Also, look into those employment help centres I posted earlier, especially Vocational Pathways. When I started the Canadian office for the company I currently work for, I used Vocational Pathways to screen out potential candidates and they also had government employment subsidies for some people that qualified. This worked really well for us because we were too small at the time to afford a full-time HR and office staff, but utilizing their HR services and subsidies we were able to get off the ground quickly. It can give you an edge over other candidates if you can have a portion of your salary subsidized and it gets you the valuable work experience you need.



Car doesn't cost really a penny to upkeep. I'm moving it into the garage shortly once I clean it out. I just replaced the floors and fuel lines along with brake lines. Didn't cost me a penny since my father helped me out with it for helping him with his hot rod. 

I emailed my cover letter and resume to some temporary agencies. Haven't heard back yet today but possibly later on during the week.

What exactly is this Vocational Pathways? I've never heard about them before.


----------



## 2010newbie

Regardless if it costs money for upkeep, the vehicle will most likely depreciate over time. Not only from it's mechanical condition degrading from sitting and have no maintenance performed, but from it's decreased market value over time. Since you seem determined to keep the car and I am not a car collector, nor do I know what model/year of BMW it is, I will stop there.

Vocational Pathways was on the list of employment assistance agencies I sent you earlier. They assist people (mainly younger people) in getting work by assessing their shortcomings (academic upgrading, resume skills, interview skills) and also providing subsidies for job placements. I have not worked in the Canadian office since 2006, so I haven't had any contact with them for a few years. I would definitely make an appointment with them and call some of the other assistance centres listed on that website. Who knows, they might even be able to give you credit advice.


----------



## HavocSteve

2010newbie said:
			
		

> Regardless if it costs money for upkeep, the vehicle will most likely depreciate over time. Not only from it's mechanical condition degrading from sitting and have no maintenance performed, but from it's decreased market value over time. Since you seem determined to keep the car and I am not a car collector, nor do I know what model/year of BMW it is, I will stop there.
> 
> Vocational Pathways was on the list of employment assistance agencies I sent you earlier. They assist people (mainly younger people) in getting work by assessing their shortcomings (academic upgrading, resume skills, interview skills) and also providing subsidies for job placements. I have not worked in the Canadian office since 2006, so I haven't had any contact with them for a few years. I would definitely make an appointment with them and call some of the other assistance centres listed on that website. Who knows, they might even be able to give you credit advice.



Took me 4 yrs to get my car. I'll fight to keep it lol. 

About those Vocational Pathways, I'll have to make some calls tomorrow and see what I can do/find out and get the ball rolling. Thanks again for your help everyone. Never knew the half of this.


----------



## aesop081

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Took me 4 yrs to get my car. I'll fight to keep it lol.



Its good to have priorties.

I dont have a job but dammit theres a BMW in the driveway.


----------



## HavocSteve

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Its good to have priorties.
> 
> I dont have a job but dammit theres a BMW in the driveway.



I live at home with my parents =\ I need something to call my own.. especially when it took me 4 years to get it. I could care less if I can drive it once a year. Unless you have that passion like I do about BMW cars, anyone would do what I've done. There's other things then to sell my car for 500$, as it is, I'm trying to sell my old apartment washer and dryer, maybe one day I'll need them also, but having wheels to get places when I need it, seem logical to me. Cost me 400$/yr to insure it under classic car insurance. Anyways, enough about my car, it's about job/credit. I'll been looking into the Pathways tomorrow since Sundays don't exactly have many people working for the Gov.


----------



## McD

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> I live at home with my parents =\ I need something to call my own.. especially when it took me 4 years to get it. I could care less if I can drive it once a year. Unless you have that passion like I do about BMW cars, anyone would do what I've done. There's other things then to sell my car for 500$, as it is, I'm trying to sell my old apartment washer and dryer, maybe one day I'll need them also, but having wheels to get places when I need it, seem logical to me. Cost me 400$/yr to insure it under classic car insurance. Anyways, enough about my car, it's about job/credit. I'll been looking into the Pathways tomorrow since Sundays don't exactly have many people working for the Gov.



No you need nothing to call your own but an exit strategy, Your story keeps changing. Use your car to hand out resumes. I could sympathise with a V12 8 Series Coupe or M3/5 for "BMW Experience" Frankly if its $500 an Aveo would be the same experience. Just trust me. 

The icon a ways back of the head beating against the wall sums this up. You have a goal yet you've countered every bit of advice with a new excuse. Get a pedal bike, make a play, and go for it. Its remarkably difficult to not sound condescending or Holyer than Thou, or feel like Im screwing my karma but grow up, handle this and YES LETS GET THIS BACK TO CREDIT CHECKS AND DEBT. 

Because there is alot to learn here, and loads from you trust me. I'd like to help if I could here dude but I think you know what to do, solutions and advice and extensions of good will are abundant to your plea. Act on them. Good luck, sincerely!


----------



## HavocSteve

Ok McD, thank you for outlining my life story. Anyways, update : Got a call for a interview tomorrow and my sister's boyfriend can hook me up with a job downtown T.O. doing drywall for the union. So lucky I didn't sell the car because if the interview ends up with nothing, I can still get to a job in Toronto. Going to get a credit counselor set up for payments once things get going good and hopefully get things sorted out and arranged properly for a job offer with the CF within a couple months. Thank you 2010newbie, the interview was for a Vocation Pathways that I registered with yesterday.


----------



## Robbie4296

congrats on the job, drywalling is a busy trade right now.


----------



## McD

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Ok McD, thank you for outlining my life story. Anyways, update : Got a call for a interview tomorrow and my sister's boyfriend can hook me up with a job downtown T.O. doing drywall for the union. So lucky I didn't sell the car because if the interview ends up with nothing, I can still get to a job in Toronto. Going to get a credit counselor set up for payments once things get going good and hopefully get things sorted out and arranged properly for a job offer with the CF within a couple months. Thank you 2010newbie, the interview was for a Vocation Pathways that I registered with yesterday.



  Yup, that's what I was trying to do...Congrats on the interview, glad youre now not thinking downtown Toronto is out of the question.

Good ya, drywalling is tough business, and fun, I really hope it gets you set up proper like.


----------



## Neolithium

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Ok McD, thank you for outlining my life story. Anyways, update : Got a call for a interview tomorrow and my sister's boyfriend can hook me up with a job downtown T.O. doing drywall for the union. So lucky I didn't sell the car because if the interview ends up with nothing, I can still get to a job in Toronto. Going to get a credit counselor set up for payments once things get going good and hopefully get things sorted out and arranged properly for a job offer with the CF within a couple months. Thank you 2010newbie, the interview was for a Vocation Pathways that I registered with yesterday.



Definitely good news for you!  Just be sure to shop around (as it were) for the credit counselors, there's unfortunately quite a few around that would like tidy sums of money for their services, I ran into a few that I ended up saying "thanks but no thanks" before finding someone who didn't want to charge me an arm, leg and first born.


----------



## HavocSteve

Neolithium said:
			
		

> Definitely good news for you!  Just be sure to shop around (as it were) for the credit counselors, there's unfortunately quite a few around that would like tidy sums of money for their services, I ran into a few that I ended up saying "thanks but no thanks" before finding someone who didn't want to charge me an arm, leg and first born.


Yea, like the $500 service fee up front before they look at your paperwork. I'll try to look for a half decent place that won't charge to much. I don't mind giving them some money for their efforts in taking some money off and getting me directed in the right path.

As for the drywalling, my sisters bf told me they just finished the apprenticeship program for right now so the next one isn't till awhile, that's why I'd have to travel to downtown T.O. in order to work for his old boss. I've never done drywalling before really on the construction scale so it should be a good learning experience and also help get me in better shape for when things get better and I do end up with a job offer. For right now, I'm waiting on the call from Bell Sympatico in Oshawa tomorrow afternoon and see if I can become a IT tech guy. More local so save on gas, but if that doesn't work out I do have the drywall to help me out.

Thank you for the support guys/girls. Means a lot when not even my dad says way to go on at least an interview. He could care less =\ so at least some moral support from people I don't know on the internet feels nice.

Neolithium, did you look up United Ways? is there an office in Oshawa? just wondering because I would like to get it started pretty quickly with the processing so after a week or 2 of working, I can start throwing money at them to get these debts paid off quickly.


----------



## Neolithium

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Neolithium, did you look up United Ways? is there an office in Oshawa? just wondering because I would like to get it started pretty quickly with the processing so after a week or 2 of working, I can start throwing money at them to get these debts paid off quickly.



Had a quick email from my financial counselor from here in Winnipeg, gave me a small lead that may help. PM Sent


----------



## username_001

Hi, I am new here so pls be nice, I read the whole forum before becoming a member on here but my question wasn't answered(sort of).

So obviously you basically need to "accept and take care of your debt" before getting into the army.  BUT, I applyed to the army, completely missing the credit check part and now I am worried if I am wasting time.  I owe a private college about $6k in money that I NEVER plan on paying them and they know it.  Long story short, the recruiters make a commission and I was told I would make no less than 35k/yr to start*turns out they lied to everyone in my class about that who asked*; when graduated about 95% of my class was making $10/hr and I FOUGHT hard to get $14/hr with the person who hired me.  Basically if I knew this I would have NEVER went to school, getting into more debt, when I could have been making more money working at the GAP(so I think they make more $).  I tried to resolve the issue with the school by settling the debt with a smaller amount to pay because of the lie I was told, they didn't deny this because obviuosly I wasn't the first to complain, they just sent me to collections which really bothered me because I had immaculate credit and a mortgage.  I sold my 1st home and tryed to get a mortgage with my partner but couldn't until I made a plan with the school so he owns the home under his name that we share so we are not concerned about that on my credit score.  I don't feel I am running away from my bad choices etc. I feel I was scammed and would have never wasted my time in a 2 yr program KNOWING this.  ((Internet sites said this profession makes 35k+ a year but that is for experienced ppl aka 10yrs+)).


If I tell the army the truth do you think they will let me in bcus they MIGHT unerstand where I am coming from(since others have gotten in with debt that was in collections)??  Like I said I don't feel it is fair to pay that debt and I won't but I REALLY WANT TO GET IN!!  I would pass everything else but this..all my other credit is in good standing and I have credit cards that are always active and a active suv loan to prove I am not a complete f*up.

Any help would be appreciated by those who know about circumstances like this.  Thank you in advance!!


----------



## acooper

I'll say it nicely before someone else says it not so nicely

1) Go talk to a recruiter. No one on this board can tell you EXACTLY what the CFRC will tell you
2) Most trades are closed until next year at this point anyways, so you've likely got time to get things straightened out before getting to the credit check side of things
3) Be VERY careful to use proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc on this forum. It was in the terms you agreed to, and is expected. If I had a hard time getting through your paragraph, others will as well.


----------



## Franko

acooper said:
			
		

> I'll say it nicely before someone else says it not so nicely
> 
> 1) *Go talk to a recruiter*. No one on this board can tell you EXACTLY what the CFRC will tell you
> 2) Most trades are closed until next year at this point anyways, so you've likely got time to get things straightened out before getting to the credit check side of things
> 3) Be VERY careful to use proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc on this forum. It was in the terms you agreed to, and is expected. *If I had a hard time getting through your paragraph, others will as well.*



Danke!

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## username_001

The point of this site is to  ask questions specific to the forum.  Reading other posts on here that got attacked which were on topic basically means there is no point to this website unless you are on here 24/7 and have a lot of cyber friends; than you can talk off topic as you wish.  
Recruiters deal with your file as the stages progress and my point was I don't want to waste my time or theirs if I will be rejected anyways as my circumstance is a little different.  
Isn't this website here to help others who want to know information from people who know or know somebody who would know?  I just wanted some advice from someone who had a clue before I went further in the process.


----------



## Pokiey

I don't get why you're getting upset, acooper gave you some very good advice.

Nobody here knows what your recruiter might say.  One person's experience will likely very greatly with another.  It would surely be disappointing if you took someone's experience on the forum, handed in your application and was rejected because of this problem.  You can't exactly say "but Mr. Recruiter, XXXXX from army.ca said this shouldn't be a problem".

Go to your CFRC, be straight up about your situation and see what they have to say.  If you lie or try to hide it, they will find out and I'm certain that will be the end of your chances of joining the CF.


----------



## Nauticus

username_001 said:
			
		

> The point of this site is to  ask questions specific to the forum.  Reading other posts on here that got attacked which were on topic basically means there is no point to this website unless you are on here 24/7 and have a lot of cyber friends; than you can talk off topic as you wish.
> Recruiters deal with your file as the stages progress and my point was I don't want to waste my time or theirs if I will be rejected anyways as my circumstance is a little different.
> Isn't this website here to help others who want to know information from people who know or know somebody who would know?  I just wanted some advice from someone who had a clue before I went further in the process.



Nobody knows if you will make it through or not. Assuming things are all equal, I'd hire a guy with better credit than another guy, so take that for what it's worth.


----------



## kincanucks

username_001 said:
			
		

> Hi, I am new here so pls be nice, I read the whole forum before becoming a member on here but my question wasn't answered(sort of).
> 
> So obviously you basically need to "accept and take care of your debt" before getting into the army.  BUT, I applyed to the army, completely missing the credit check part and now I am worried if I am wasting time.  I owe a private college about $6k in money that I NEVER plan on paying them and they know it.  Long story short, the recruiters make a commission and I was told I would make no less than 35k/yr to start*turns out they lied to everyone in my class about that who asked*; when graduated about 95% of my class was making $10/hr and I FOUGHT hard to get $14/hr with the person who hired me.  Basically if I knew this I would have NEVER went to school, getting into more debt, when I could have been making more money working at the GAP(so I think they make more $).  I tried to resolve the issue with the school by settling the debt with a smaller amount to pay because of the lie I was told, they didn't deny this because obviuosly I wasn't the first to complain, they just sent me to collections which really bothered me because I had immaculate credit and a mortgage.  I sold my 1st home and tryed to get a mortgage with my partner but couldn't until I made a plan with the school so he owns the home under his name that we share so we are not concerned about that on my credit score.  I don't feel I am running away from my bad choices etc. I feel I was scammed and would have never wasted my time in a 2 yr program KNOWING this.  ((Internet sites said this profession makes 35k+ a year but that is for experienced ppl aka 10yrs+)).
> 
> 
> If I tell the army the truth do you think they will let me in bcus they MIGHT unerstand where I am coming from(since others have gotten in with debt that was in collections)??  Like I said I don't feel it is fair to pay that debt and I won't but I REALLY WANT TO GET IN!!  I would pass everything else but this..all my other credit is in good standing and I have credit cards that are always active and a active suv loan to prove I am not a complete f*up.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated by those who know about circumstances like this.  Thank you in advance!!



I can see English composition wasn't one of your top subjects.  You can't be enrolled in the CF if you have any debts in collections and you are not dealing with them.  A credit check is part of the initial background check and if a hit comes back they will question you on it and if you haven't given them satisfactory proof that you are dealing with the debts in question you will not get in.  To confirm everything I just told you go to your local CFRC.  Clear enough for you?

PS - If you had read the entire forum then you would have seen the answer to your question many times.


----------



## Franko

username_001 said:
			
		

> The point of this site is to  ask questions specific to the forum.  Reading other posts on here that got attacked which were on topic basically means there is no point to this website unless you are on here 24/7 and have a lot of cyber friends; than you can talk off topic as you wish.
> Recruiters deal with your file as the stages progress and my point was I don't want to waste my time or theirs if I will be rejected anyways as my circumstance is a little different.
> Isn't this website here to help others who want to know information from people who know or know somebody who would know?  I just wanted some advice from someone who had a clue before I went further in the process.






			
				Pokiey said:
			
		

> I don't get why you're getting upset, acooper gave you some very good advice.
> 
> *Nobody here knows what your recruiter might say.*  One person's experience will likely very greatly with another.  It would surely be disappointing if you took someone's experience on the forum, handed in your application and was rejected because of this problem.  You can't exactly say "but Mr. Recruiter, XXXXX from army.ca said this shouldn't be a problem".
> 
> Go to your CFRC, be straight up about your situation and see what they have to say.  If you lie or try to hide it, they will find out and I'm certain that will be the end of your chances of joining the CF.



Sigh.........*username_001*

I don't understand what the problem is here. That is the best advice there will be found here on your situation. Take it up with your recruiter.

This is a free service and an "Unofficial site, not associated with DND" but I guess you missed that part. There are many serving members of the CF here and many civilians as well.

Don't like the answers you're getting on this free and privately owned site? 

Leave.

I'd also grow a thicker skin if I were you. 

If that small response bothered you that much, you will be eaten alive *if *you get in.

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## George Wallace

username_001 said:
			
		

> The point of this site is to  ask questions specific to the forum.  Reading other posts on here that got attacked which were on topic basically means there is no point to this website unless you are on here 24/7 and have a lot of cyber friends; than you can talk off topic as you wish.
> Recruiters deal with your file as the stages progress and my point was I don't want to waste my time or theirs if I will be rejected anyways as my circumstance is a little different.
> Isn't this website here to help others who want to know information from people who know or know somebody who would know?  I just wanted some advice from someone who had a clue before I went further in the process.



Numerous people have given you good advice.  They even overlooked you comment:



			
				username_001 said:
			
		

> .........  I owe a private college about $6k in money that I NEVER plan on paying them and they know it.



That alone may prevent you from getting any job.  An accredited college offers courses.  They may state that after your course you may find a job and earn $35K a year, but that is the same as the creation of the earth happened in seven days.  If you expect to magically land a high paying job after two years of college, you may want to re-evaluate your thought process.  Why would you want to join the CF?  Did someone tell you that you'd make $50K a year?  Most assuredly, you will not be making that in your first few years.

Oh!  On another point, living with your partner in a house under his name only may not stop a collection agency from collecting the monies.  I assume by living with him, you are now Common Law.  That may transfer your debts over, to be shared between the two of you.  He may thank you later.


----------



## HavocSteve

I'm in the same vote as most people here. I have some debt that went to collections, but I know the only way to deal with it is to call a bankruptcy agent and get the advice I truly need from someone who has experience in that field and to see what my options are. After that, I e-mail my Sgt. the papers stating that I am making payments to the parties that are owed and that the issue will be resolved in XX about of time. Only then can my case file manager sign my paperwork and give me a BMQ date. I could easily pay off the debt with the 13 weeks of training, but the Federal Government doesn't allow for me to join because the people who are owed can then sue the Federal Government. So only gaining employment and making some kind of payment plan will only get me further in life then I am.

This is speaking from what the Sgt. has told me in my last interview and also my own experience has been. So buck up, get some payments going, and get your file moving along. I have till April anyways to deal with my debt, and I want to get it done and over with since I'm someone who truly wants to be part of the CF. Where there is a will, there is a way!


----------



## Occam

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> I could easily pay off the debt with the 13 weeks of training, but the Federal Government doesn't allow for me to join because the people who are owed can then sue the Federal Government.



Ah, no.

I don't know where you got that, but it's wrong.

The CF doesn't want to hire you if you have outstanding obligations because you cannot be spared time to attend to financial counselling, court dates, meetings with trustees, and the like while you're trying to go through BMQ or trades training.  Your plate has to be clear before the CF will hire you.


----------



## HavocSteve

Occam said:
			
		

> Ah, no.
> 
> I don't know where you got that, but it's wrong.
> 
> The CF doesn't want to hire you if you have outstanding obligations because you cannot be spared time to attend to financial counselling, court dates, meetings with trustees, and the like while you're trying to go through BMQ or trades training.  Your plate has to be clear before the CF will hire you.


I was told this by the 2 recruiting Sgt(s) that were in the room during my interview. (One was training and the other was scoring how well the other recruiter was doing, nothing to do with my interview at all). Both told me that the owing parties could seek the money from the Federal Government. This is what I've been told, I don't lie about little things nor big things, nor do I have the reason to do so.


----------



## aesop081

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> I don't lie about little things nor big things, nor do I have the reason to do so.



It is still incorrect.

Having your wages garnished is not "suing the government".



> that the owing parties could seek the money from the Federal Government



No. The owed party seeks the money from *you* through the courts.


----------



## Spring_bok

Sorry to jump in here but would anyone agree that a credit check also helps to determine reliability and accountability?


----------



## George Wallace

Spring_bok said:
			
		

> Sorry to jump in here but would anyone agree that a credit check also helps to determine reliability and accountability?



Yes.  A most excellent point.


----------



## Dunner

Hello,

I can totally understand the purpose of the credit check and I also think that more employers should use it. However, It is simply one aspect of many that are used in the recruiting process.  I am recently divorced and that process completely ruined my credit. It is as bad as it can be without having filed for bankruptcy.  It came up during my interview and I explained the divorce situation.  My interviewer gave a quick comment on how little money one can make in the first few years of service and I promptly assured him that measures have been taken to correct the issue and that my new military income would more than suffice. 

That was all I heard of it. 8 weeks later I received a job offer for a technical trade in the armed forces.  

I think the point is that there are many variables that are taken into consideration in this process and I don't think that any one thing in particular will sink you.  Especially if you score exceptionally will in all of the other aspects of the recruiting process.


----------



## martr

Dunner, I believe in your situation you demonstrated that you believe in accountability and "doing the right thing" by paying you bills. Too many people nowadays chose the easy way out and file for bankrupcty when they could potentially make arrangements to pay off their debt with a little work. In most cases, it would take some time and hard work, but it could be done. I'm not saying everyone can avoid bankruptcy, but certainly people are using it as a scapegoat to avoir responsibility.

The initial Relibility Status check is exactly that: to verify that you are reliable. If you are running away from your financial responsiblities by taking the easy way out just because it's there, how reliable are you as a person? (not you Dunner, but people in general).


----------



## Occam

martr said:
			
		

> Dunner, I believe in your situation you demonstrated that you believe in accountability and "doing the right thing" by paying you bills. Too many people nowadays chose the easy way out and file for bankrupcty when they could potentially make arrangements to pay off their debt with a little work. In most cases, it would take some time and hard work, but it could be done. I'm not saying everyone can avoid bankruptcy, but certainly people are using it as a scapegoat to avoir responsibility.
> 
> The initial Relibility Status check is exactly that: to verify that you are reliable. If you are running away from your financial responsiblities by taking the easy way out just because it's there, how reliable are you as a person? (not you Dunner, but people in general).



Let me clear up something for you.  Bankruptcy is anything but the easy way out.  There are very stringent conditions which need to be met before one can file for bankruptcy.  A trustee has to sign off on it, essentially stating that there are no longer any alternatives but to file bankruptcy.  Before being discharged, "surplus income" is paid to the trustee for disbursement to the creditors from the time of application to the time of discharge, normally nine months.

Life _after_ bankruptcy is anything but easy.  Credit is difficult if not impossible to obtain.  Cash or cheque must be used to pay for everything.  Things like furnace oil deliveries have to be paid for in full upon delivery - consider what 900 litres of oil costs these days.  Renting a car is near impossible without a credit card.

You should seriously reconsider your position that bankruptcy is "running away from one's financial responsibilities".  In many cases, there are no other options left.

edit:  In Canada, there were 105,360 consumer bankruptcies, and 41,124 consumer proposals in the 12 months ending June 30, 2010.  I'm willing to bet there are people you know who have been bankrupt, and you don't even know it.


----------



## martr

Sorry, clearly I didn't voice my opinion the right way...

Yes, I'm aware that it's extremely difficult for individuals who have to declare bankruptcy, my father going through this right now. Declaring bankruptcy, in his case, was a last resort and he couldn't continue living without doing something as drastic as that. So for a lot of people, it's very beneficial. It's going to be hard for him to get his credit back in order, but he's doing it to take back control of his finances and I applaud him for it.

There are, however, a lot of people declare bankruptcy for the wrong reasons. I hear stories about people racking up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, having no intention of paying anything back and then declaring backruptcy to erase everything and start over. Those are the people that aren't, in my opinion, reliable.

So I think the whole idea of performing credit checks and subsequent interviews (if there are issues) is basically to learn how people are dealing with it: The right way, or running away from responsibility.

I'm truly sorry if I offended you.


----------



## Occam

martr said:
			
		

> There are, however, a lot of people declare bankruptcy for the wrong reasons. I hear stories about people racking up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, having no intention of paying anything back and then declaring backruptcy to erase everything and start over. Those are the people that aren't, in my opinion, reliable.



The stories you heard are mostly myths.  If you go on a spending spree, and then expect to be able to file bankruptcy and keep your stuff, you're in for a surprise.  Normally, trustees aren't in the business of repossessing stereos, cars, etc., but if it becomes apparent that a prospective bankrupt deliberately pushed themselves over the edge in an attempt to gain a lot of physical property before filing, the property will get seized as part of the process.  It's not out of the realm of possibility that fraud charges may result in extreme cases.  



> So I think the whole idea of performing credit checks and subsequent interviews (if there are issues) is basically to learn how people are dealing with it: The right way, or running away from responsibility.



That is but a small part of the purpose of the credit check.  Other purposes include a gauge of one's integrity and honesty - if you make any attempts to hide or downplay bad debt, it will not be viewed favorably.  Bad debt makes one a higher risk for subversion and targeting by criminal elements, a consideration when seeking higher security clearances.


----------



## Greymatters

Occam said:
			
		

> Bad debt makes one a higher risk for subversion and targeting by criminal elements, a consideration when seeking higher security clearances.



Actually, bad debt is equated to a person being more likely to commit crimes of opportunity for their own benefit - its the number one problem in retail/wholesale businesses across North America...


----------



## HavocSteve

One could act in the same way I just happened to do so. Oshawa/Durham Region is still in a bad spot because of the whole GM shutdown and closing of some lines which in turn hurt a lot of other business (hiring of people). I just moved to Ottawa and it only took me 4 days to land myself a receiving job, hopefully after some time, I can start a repayment plan. The recruiting office only wanted some proof of payments and to show that I am committed to making a difference in my financial situation. So the moral of this story was just to start fresh somewhere completely different which does have opportunities. I could still see myself not employed in Oshawa right now if I was to stay there. Hopefully this can inspire someone who was in the same position as myself and to do something about it.


----------



## bpayne41@hotmail.com

My recruiter mentioned something about paying up your phone bill.......I have a pay as you go plan and I was in debt as in mt account was minus a few times , I think the most was maybe $14 a few times but I have always paid them off .....will this effect my application ?


----------



## Occam

bpayne41@hotmail.com said:
			
		

> My recruiter mentioned something about paying up your phone bill.......I have a pay as you go plan and I was in debt as in mt account was minus a few times , I think the most was maybe $14 a few times but I have always paid them off .....will this effect my application ?



http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91910/post-908597.html#msg908597

You gotta search for stuff...these types of questions have all been asked before.


----------



## MPwannabe

All I can tell you is this:
My family is broke and I was the first one to pursue a post-secondary education. After college and university, my OSAP loan was just over $40,000. I have no other loans.
Since I've started the process of being recruiting as an MP, I've been completely honest and I haven't been held back yet in any way. I wouldn't worry about it, so long as you're always honest with everything.


----------



## HavocSteve

Quick question for a recruiter if one could answer my question. I have previous debt. Just basically started fresh over here in Ottawa, got a job and getting things started. I'm wondering if I take a personal loan out from my bank, then putting all my previous debt onto the loan (paying off everyone and being debt free from collectors and such). Would that be a better stepping stone into the CF and just making my monthly payments into the personal loan. Just basically wondering if that would be a better decision then trying to pay each on off separately.

Thanks for any input!


----------



## Nauticus

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Quick question for a recruiter if one could answer my question. I have previous debt. Just basically started fresh over here in Ottawa, got a job and getting things started. I'm wondering if I take a personal loan out from my bank, then putting all my previous debt onto the loan (paying off everyone and being debt free from collectors and such). Would that be a better stepping stone into the CF and just making my monthly payments into the personal loan. Just basically wondering if that would be a better decision then trying to pay each on off separately.
> 
> Thanks for any input!



If it works for you financially, then it is a good idea. Having a debt won't necessarily make you unable to pursue the CF, but you have to show that you have made progress in paying it back.


----------



## Occam

HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Quick question for a recruiter if one could answer my question. I have previous debt. Just basically started fresh over here in Ottawa, got a job and getting things started. I'm wondering if I take a personal loan out from my bank, then putting all my previous debt onto the loan (paying off everyone and being debt free from collectors and such). Would that be a better stepping stone into the CF and just making my monthly payments into the personal loan. Just basically wondering if that would be a better decision then trying to pay each on off separately.
> 
> Thanks for any input!



Consolidating your debt can save you money only if you get a lower interest rate than your individual accounts are charging.  If you're into collections on some of the accounts, getting a consolidation loan could be problematic.  If you do get one, the rate may be high enough that it may not be worthwhile.  I would just work at keeping/getting the accounts in good order.  If you do pursue a consolidation loan, choose wisely when you approach the banks.  You only want to make one or two attempts - start with the bank you have the best relationship with.  If they turn you down, and another turns you down, don't bother continuing.  Making repeated attempts to secure credit will flag your credit file as "credit hunting", and your score will start to take hits.


----------



## HavocSteve

Occam said:
			
		

> Consolidating your debt can save you money only if you get a lower interest rate than your individual accounts are charging.  If you're into collections on some of the accounts, getting a consolidation loan could be problematic.  If you do get one, the rate may be high enough that it may not be worthwhile.  I would just work at keeping/getting the accounts in good order.  If you do pursue a consolidation loan, choose wisely when you approach the banks.  You only want to make one or two attempts - start with the bank you have the best relationship with.  If they turn you down, and another turns you down, don't bother continuing.  Making repeated attempts to secure credit will flag your credit file as "credit hunting", and your score will start to take hits.


The thing is, my old past debts are over 1+ years old. Not to mention one says it has been court ordered (credit sheet handed to me by the Sgt on my interview). I never received papers or anything of the like and would like to just pay it all off and start paying towards one lump sum rather then chasing down each debt that is owed from a long time ago. I never thought that it would come back to bite me in the butt but it has and I'm thinking that doing a loan from the bank and paying now, by April, the recruiters might give me a shot because I'm putting a great effort towards to my finances.


----------



## o_O519

I know they preform a credit check when applying, if I have just finished bankruptcy a year ago is this going to look negative on me?


----------



## mariomike

This may help.
Topic: "Credit Check - Personal Debt":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16700.0.html

8 pages.


----------



## o_O519

Thanks,  I read the forum but was unable to see anything about Bankruptcy and if it will affect me getting in, because really I have no debt just a bad rating


----------



## mariomike

o_O519 said:
			
		

> Thanks,  I read the forum but was unable to see anything about Bankruptcy and if it will affect me getting in, because really I have no debt just a bad rating



Maybe this?
Topic: "discharged from bankruptcy":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/85766.0
"I have been discharged from bankruptcy last month and would like to start applying for the military can i still join with the discharged bankruptcy?" 

Topic: "Discharged bankruptcy and G.E.D":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/85737/post-837052.html#msg837052
"I was wondering if I could join the Canadian military if I have been in bankruptcy? I was discharged last month from bankruptcy and would like to join full time as a medic."


----------



## o_O519

Thanks for the reply, I went to the link and all i read was someone asking the same question as me and instead of people answering it they just tell them to search again..  I have looked and I am unable to find the answer, anyone who has already read it, knows the proper link or has the info, I would appreciate it. Thank you


----------



## Romanmaz

o_O519 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply, I went to the link and all i read was someone asking the same question as me and instead of people answering it they just tell them to search again..  I have looked and I am unable to find the answer, anyone who has already read it, knows the proper link or has the info, I would appreciate it. Thank you


http://www.forces.ca/en/page/contactus-73 There's a link for ya. Alote easier to call them or go into the RC in person for a definitive answer based on your specific situation.


----------



## Devonm123

When going through the recruiting process another candidate doing tests the same day had filed for bankruptcy earlier this year and was not merit listed for this reason.


----------



## Gulruthina

Hi,

I currently have outstanding credit card, line of credit and OSAP debts. I am 24 years old, I have a full time job as an accountant and I am paying my debts in monthly installments. Would that pose a problem?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## jeffb

The credit check is to see if you have any credit obligations that you are not meeting. The CF doesn't want creditors showing up looking for money from you. Having credit is not a problem. Having unpaid credit is.


----------



## Gulruthina

jeffb said:
			
		

> The credit check is to see if you have any credit obligations that you are not meeting. The CF doesn't want creditors showing up looking for money from you. Having credit is not a problem. Having unpaid credit is.





I actually did a credit check last August 2011 when I submitted my application. My Credit Score from Equifax says *"Fair"*. Plus as of the current date, I have been paying my bills lately, so I would assume the score is a little bit higher.

*Btw, what do you mean by "unpaid credit"? - Would that be having an outstanding credit and not paying it at all?*


Thanks,
Mark


----------



## jeffb

I mean when you owe someone money and you haven't been paying them. When you see your credit report it's the part that says 30 days overdue, 60 days overdue, etc. 

If you are paying your bills, this should be a non-issue. The point is to make sure you won't become an administrative burden by having credit collectors come looking for you. No one cares what your credit score is, you are applying for a job, not a loan.


----------



## Gulruthina

jeffb said:
			
		

> I mean when you owe someone money and you haven't been paying them. When you see your credit report it's the part that says 30 days overdue, 60 days overdue, etc.
> 
> If you are paying your bills, this should be a non-issue. The point is to make sure you won't become an administrative burden by having credit collectors come looking for you. No one cares what your credit score is, you are applying for a job, not a loan.




I just went to double check my credit report as of August 2011 and all of my credit card, line of credit and OSAP states = *No 30, 60 and 90 Days Late. *


----------



## mariomike

You may find some info here,
Topic: Credit Check - Personal Debt :
http://army.ca/forums/threads/16700.0.html
8 pages

Topic: CREDIT CHECK :
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102055.0

Topic: Credit Checks:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13319.0.html

Topic: Quick Credit Question :
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63236.0/nowap.html

Topic: More in-depth credit check question :
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/69010.0/nowap.html

Topic: Debt?:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/58604.0/nowap.html


----------



## Occam

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> I just went to double check my credit report as of August 2011 and all of my credit card, line of credit and OSAP states = *No 30, 60 and 90 Days Late. *



If all you're seeing is R1, I1 and O1 entries, you're golden.  Be aware that there are two credit reporting agencies; Equifax and TransUnion.  When you request a copy of your credit report, always get a report from each agency, as creditors may report to one and not the other.


----------



## Gulruthina

Occam said:
			
		

> If all you're seeing is R1, I1 and O1 entries, you're golden.  Be aware that there are two credit reporting agencies; Equifax and TransUnion.  When you request a copy of your credit report, always get a report from each agency, as creditors may report to one and not the other.



Oh really? I thought creditors are supposedly required to report to both agencies. I got my credit report at Equifax Canada.

 I do have a lot of outstanding debts but I always make sure I pay the minimum if I could not pay the entire amount. I am going to submit my personnel screening, consent and authorization form tomorrow and I hope everything goes smoothly. Also, I am planning to sell all my shares with the company I currently work for and the shares I currently own in TSX, hopefully that would increase my credit rating.


----------



## Occam

As was mentioned before, if you want to improve your FICO score (and I doubt selling stock would do so), that's up to you - the CF doesn't care about your FICO score.  The CF only cares if you have bad debt.


----------



## Gulruthina

Occam said:
			
		

> As was mentioned before, if you want to improve your FICO score (and I doubt selling stock would do so), that's up to you - the CF doesn't care about your FICO score.  The CF only cares if you have bad debt.




Since I don't have any bad debts then I should be good to go. Thanks for the info! Greatly appreciated!


----------



## Gulruthina

jeffb said:
			
		

> The credit check is to see if you have any credit obligations that you are not meeting. The CF doesn't want creditors showing up looking for money from you. Having credit is not a problem. Having unpaid credit is.



I currently have a debt of 16k, mostly from (14k) OSAP. I am very angry right now, because I have just missed a payment on my credit card and I submitted my credit check form last Monday.


----------



## Gulruthina

Hi,

I have a quick question in regards to credit check. I have oustanding debts, I think everyone has, but I do not have any bad debts or and credit that is on collection. If that is the case, then it should not affect my application in the CF?

Also, I recently did a credit check report and I scored in the "good category".

Thanks!


----------



## aesop081

This question gets asked 6 times a month...........

Couldn't wait until i answered your PM eh ?

 :


----------



## Gulruthina

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> This question gets asked 6 times a month...........
> 
> Couldn't wait until i answered your PM eh ?
> 
> :



I apologize lol, It's just I am a bit worried.


----------



## aesop081

You will be fine.

Now,

Quit worrying about stuff you do not control. You could have also put your worries to rest by reading the hundreds of responses to this question that are here on this site.

You must submit to the credit check to join the CF. Good credit or bad credit, you have to do it. No sense worrying about it.


----------



## Occam

You got the same answers the last time you asked this question.  Remember?


----------



## aesop081

Occam said:
			
		

> You got the same answers the last time you asked this question.  Remember?



Brilliant.


Gulruthina: #Fail


----------



## Gulruthina

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Brilliant.
> 
> 
> Gulruthina: #Fail



I was thinking that maybe the CF will ask me to send them my statement payment reports to show that I am making payments.


----------



## aesop081

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> I was thinking that maybe the CF will ask me to send them my statement payment reports to show that I am making payments.



They do a credit check. A credit check will make it painfully obvious if you are paying your bills or not.


----------



## Occam

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> I was thinking that maybe the CF will ask me to send them my statement payment reports to show that I am making payments.



The CF will do a credit check on you, and see all those R1/O1/I1 entries, and be happy.  Why would they want to see that you're making payments when your credit report states that very information?


----------



## aesop081

You got all the answers you needed, plus links to more answers in that other thread of yours.


----------



## Gulruthina

Occam said:
			
		

> The CF will do a credit check on you, and see all those R1/O1/I1 entries, and be happy.  Why would they want to see that you're making payments when your credit report states that very information?




Btw, what are those  R1/O1/I1 entries?

I asked because I read in the other forum treads that they have to send statements to the CF show that they are making payments and got me very mixed up as to whether I have to do the same thing.

Thanks!


----------



## Gulruthina

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> They do a credit check. A credit check will make it painfully obvious if you are paying your bills or not.



I do pay my bills  but not everything though since I could not pay the entire amount on one payment. Also, I do not have any past due amounts as I always pay more than the minimum payment.


----------



## aesop081

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> I do pay my bills  but not everything though since I could not pay the entire amount on one payment. Also, I do not have any past due amounts as I always pay more than the minimum payment.



READ THE ANSWERS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU IN BOTH YOUR THREADS !!!!!!!


----------



## aesop081

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> I asked because I read in the other forum treads that they have to send statements to the CF show that they are making payments and got me very mixed up as to whether I have to do the same thing.



Read the situation those people were in. I mean actually read, not stupid read.


----------



## Gulruthina

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Read the situation those people were in. I mean actually read, not stupid read.



I did read but their situation is different from mine, but now all I can do is wait till they call me about my credit check, if ever, Thanks!


----------



## aesop081

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> I did read but their situation is different from mine,



That was my point. Quit worrying about what other people are doing.


----------



## Occam

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> Btw, what are those  R1/O1/I1 entries?



You should be seeing those on your credit report.  See http://creditengine.net/equifax_format.htm, look for the "Equifax Trade Check Rating Codes" section.  Then look at your credit report that you got in the mail, and you should see R1/O1/I1 entries if you've been paying on time.



> I asked because I read in the other forum treads that they have to send statements to the CF show that they are making payments and got me very mixed up as to whether I have to do the same thing.



That's advice for people who have bad debt, and have made payment arrangements with their creditors.  If you had bad debt, that's what you would have to do to prove to the CF that you've taken steps to deal with it.  If you're paid and up to date, then that advice does not apply to you!


----------



## ProtectAndServe

Owing companies, can this make a person ineligible for the Canadian Forces? Just wondering as I'm in a situation with a company and fear I would not be ineligible for employment.


----------



## FutureQYR

Probably best to give a Recruiting center a call.


----------



## mariomike

ProtectAndServe said:
			
		

> Owing companies, can this make a person ineligible for the Canadian Forces? Just wondering as I'm in a situation with a company and fear I would not be ineligible for employment.



This may help:
[merged into this thread]
Bruce


----------



## ProtectAndServe

mariomike said:
			
		

> This may help:
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16700.0.html
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/58604.0


Thank you very much for that link, it's a wake up call to start dealing with my loans asap... :s


----------



## ProtectAndServe

Actually to add to my question, I owe a phone company and that has been put to collections, the other companies I do owe are not in collections yet, so when my recruiter contacted me only about the phone company I figured it must be showing in collections and all my other debts have not reached that point.. If I take care of the one in collections then obviously start paying my other debts would this be fine? Selections are in November 2012 according to my local RC for Infantry which gives me time to pay the phone company and start making payments on other debts. So would I be eligible for employment if I take care of debts in collections?


----------



## Occam

ProtectAndServe said:
			
		

> Actually to add to my question, I owe a phone company and that has been put to collections, the other companies I do owe are not in collections yet, so when my recruiter contacted me only about the phone company I figured it must be showing in collections and all my other debts have not reached that point.. If I take care of the one in collections then obviously start paying my other debts would this be fine? Selections are in November 2012 according to my local RC for Infantry which gives me time to pay the phone company and start making payments on other debts. So would I be eligible for employment if I take care of debts in collections?



1.  Deal with outstanding debt, and make payment arrangements for those in collections
2.  Keep up your end of the arrangements
3.  Ensure your creditors update your credit file with the most recent, accurate info.

There's nothing more you can do.  It's the recruiter's call as to whether or not you're doing well enough.


----------



## The_Falcon

It's actually the MCC's call.

If you have any adverse information in your credit report chances are we will see it (note something does not have to be in collections, for it to be adverse).  Anything adverse will be flagged and brought to your interviewing MCC's attention, and they will discuss the issue with you and more than likely ask for proof that you are in fact paying your creditors.


----------



## Neolithium

Occam said:
			
		

> 1.  Deal with outstanding debt, and make payment arrangements for those in collections
> 2.  Keep up your end of the arrangements
> 3.  Ensure your creditors update your credit file with the most recent, accurate info.
> 
> There's nothing more you can do.  It's the recruiter's call as to whether or not you're doing well enough.



Just wanted to add something to your post as this was the route I personally had to take as well.  Check your local phone book for debt counseling services; there should be at least a few free ones that will have a quick interview with you and contact the companies you owe money to and can roll everything up into a single payment (Without a consolidation loan I should add) which is affordable for you.

Just about 3 years later and I'm almost completely free and clear, and the debt management program worked in my favour during the recruiting process (According to my MCC) because I was making the effort to fix everything.


----------



## jasonh1234

I have/had a horrendous credit issue which I recently declared Bankruptcy for.
All in all I was well over $200k in debt total at peak & was still at $100k in debt when I declared the Bankruptcy. 
(Capital gains taxes on Stock options, defaulted loan, etc etc.) Terrible situation from years & years ago that was both my fault and an accountant's (That I should've looked into suing) :facepalm:

I've read conflicting information & opinions here on credit & bankruptcy matters in regards to recruiting & I'm crossing my fingers & hoping with every fibre of my being that I can still get in.  :-\

I did make attempts to pay my debts. Paid two student loans back in full, sold 4 bedroom house to pay debts & moved into a tiny 530 sq. ft. apartment but in the end, at the rate things were going it'd take a lifetime to repay the outstanding debts even via credit proposals. A bankruptcy was the only realistic & viable option for me.

I received an email that said:



> Canadian Forces applicant:
> 
> The results of your background & credit check have been received as UNFAVOURABLE.
> 
> If you would like to retain your application with the CF, you must provide the following information.
> 
> 1.    A letter explaining the following:
> a.    What were the circumstances which led to this situation?
> b.    What was the final disposition/settlement?
> c.    What have you learned from this experience and how you will avoid such occurrence(s) in the future?
> 
> 2.    In case of any debt(s), please provide evidences of settlement in addition to the letter.
> a.    Proof of payment in full, or
> b.    Proof of consolidation, or
> c.    Proof of established payment plan.
> 
> You may email, fax or drop off the required information at the recruiting center in XXXXXXXX.
> 
> You have 30 days from today to provide the necessary information or provide an update to your situation. If we do not receive a response within this time, your file will be closed.
> 
> Reply to this email as soon as you are able



As expected.

I'm certain I must be the biggest credit disaster to ever walk through the CFRC doors.

I've sent in the requested materials along with what I feel is an EXCELLENT letter that explains everything asked for in detail 

All I can do now is wait anxiously. I'll report back.

P.S. Words of Wisdom in case I should be hit by a bus tomorrow... Never put blind faith in Money managers, financial advisors, and accountants. They have the potential to severely mess your life up.
I know I am ultimately responsible for my own situation though so please refrain from any bashing. You'd just be kicking someone who's already down.


----------



## Occam

Jay H. said:
			
		

> I'm certain I must be the biggest credit disaster to ever walk through the CFRC doors.



While you might believe that to be the case, it's probably not true.  Declaring bankruptcy is taking a positive step towards dealing with unmanageable debt.

I can't tell you with any authority how the recruiting people view bankruptcy.  Were I a betting man (and I am), it's likely viewed more favourably than struggling with an unattainable repayment schedule.  What I'd also bet (but you really should ask the CFRC to be certain) is that the discharge proceedings from bankruptcy will be viewed as a "legal obligation" which would preclude your enrolment until it's been successfully executed.  Only nine months to go.


----------



## jasonh1234

Occam said:
			
		

> Were I a betting man (and I am), it's likely viewed more favourably than struggling with an unattainable repayment schedule.



That's what I'm hoping for.



> What I'd also bet (but you really should ask the CFRC to be certain) is that the discharge proceedings from bankruptcy will be viewed as a "legal obligation" which would preclude your enrolment until it's been successfully executed.



That's what I'm hoping is NOT the case. Although it seems quite possible.  :-\



> Only nine months to go.



Eight. Although months feel like years when it comes to waiting for employment.  :


----------



## The_Falcon

I have seen way worse, and higher amounts.  What the MCC's are looking for is that you dealt with your issues in some manner, and that you are diligently working to make things better.  That said, if the matter of your bankruptcy is still in the court system then you will be put on hold, as it is still an unresolved judicial process/proceeding.


----------



## jasonh1234

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> ...if the matter of your bankruptcy is still in the court system then you will be put on hold, as it is still an unresolved judicial process/proceeding.



Well the whole thing was taken care of at a trustee's office. Not in a court. My only real obligations are to pay the trustee's fee in $200 chunks. ($1800 total) and to not hide income.


----------



## Occam

Jay H. said:
			
		

> Well the whole thing was taken care of at a trustee's office. Not in a court. My only real obligations are to pay the trustee's fee in $200 chunks. ($1800 total) and to not hide income.



Yes, but the actual discharge of bankruptcy takes place in a court - in your case, BC Supreme Court.


----------



## jasonh1234

Well... I'm totally crushed.
Just got home from a meeting with an Officer at the CFRC and was told essentially (totally paraphrased):

"Yeah sorry. Your financial history is just too bad and we have to look closely at factors like that. We have to be very diligent with reliability and background checks. Have you seen the news today? Try again starting from scratch in a year. 6 months at the BARE minimum."

I'm just....

Gah!

 :crybaby:


----------



## ketchup1001

Quick summary of my situation:
I moved to Canada in 2006, got my citizenship in 2011. I started university and used student loans to pay for my tuition. About 90 (out of 120) credits in, I flunked out of my program. Now I have ~$20k in student loan debts, owe my university $3k and about $3k more on a couple credit cards. Not a good place to be! I've managed to pay most of my bills on time, but I suspect my credit rating is in shambles. 
So, the question: would my financial situation make it difficult/impossible for me to get recruited? I'm looking at regular, not reserve.


----------



## dapaterson

Google is your friend.  Credit agencies will give you free copies of your credit report; it is likely worth the effort to get copies for yourself.

That way you can address concerns raised.


As to the impact on your application:  As always, it depends on what the credit check reveals, what you apply for, who else is applying, and any number of other factors that can only be addressed by recuriters.


----------



## DAA

Equifax Canada or TransUnion will provide free copies of your credit report if you mail in the application.  If your in a rush, you can do it online but at a cost.

Different credit bureau's hold different information, so your best to request reports from both of the above.


----------



## mariomike

ketchup1001 said:
			
		

> I've managed to pay most of my bills on time, but I suspect my credit rating is in shambles.



You may find this thread helpful:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13319.0.html


----------



## davidc538

Jay H. said:
			
		

> the news



That's actually crazy. Also will the recruiters bother anyone about there debt if it is student loans and around 10k or less? or are they just concerned about much bigger debts?


----------



## PuckChaser

davidc538 said:
			
		

> That's actually crazy. Also will the recruiters bother anyone about there debt if it is student loans and around 10k or less? or are they just concerned about much bigger debts?



A lot of people have student loans. If you're not missing payments don't worry about it. If you have 3 maxed credit cards, a mortgage and are skipping payments, expect an issue.


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

There is a third Credit Bureau you should get a report through as well, Experian I think.


----------



## DAA

Jay H. said:
			
		

> Well... I'm totally crushed.
> Just got home from a meeting with an Officer at the CFRC and was told essentially (totally paraphrased):
> 
> "Yeah sorry. Your financial history is just too bad and we have to look closely at factors like that. We have to be very diligent with reliability and background checks. Have you seen  Try again starting from scratch in a year. 6 months at the BARE minimum."



The Credit Check is part of the "Reliability Screening" which is part of the application process.  So if you walked into the CFRC and were told this straight up, I would have to scratch my head....

GoC policy is...

'in arriving at a reliability screening decision, officials are expected to provide a fair and objective assessment that respects the rights of the individual. Individuals must be given an opportunity to explain adverse information before a decision is reached. Unless the information is exemptible under the Privacy Act, individuals must be given the reasons why they have been denied reliability status.

The authorizing manager will need to determine whether a person can be considered trustworthy, taking into account the assessments in articles 2.7.1 to 2.7.5 below."

Ref:  http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=12330&section=text

Further more...
"2.7.4 Credit check

The existence of negative information in a credit report can be but need not be sufficient grounds to deny enhanced reliability status.

Where adverse credit information exists, the authorizing manager must evaluate: 
■To what extent the individual has changed habits with respect to financial reliability.
■The likely recurrence of financial difficulties and their potential effect on job reliability."

So whilst you may have an adverse Credit Rating, you must be given the opportunity to explain why and demonstrate that you have taken steps to resolve the problem(s).

If you are DENIED a Reliability Clearance, which is what they are doing, you can "Redress" the decision under Section 6 of the reference link above.

Let's face it, if you owned a home, were making your monthly payments, then lost your job and defaulted on your mortgage, is that reason enough to deny you future employment?


----------



## DAA

PrettyMaggie63 said:
			
		

> There is a third Credit Bureau you should get a report through as well, Experian I think.



They must be new on the scene, as the two major players are those I mentioned above and are also the most commonly used sources of Credit Information by most major employers.

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/creditloans/reportscores/index-eng.asp


----------



## MMSS

You may want to speak with a few banks or credit unions regarding consolidation loans as well. One loan, one payment, rather than 3 or 4. Watch the interest rates of course, but might be worth looking into as it can make things easier on your wallet and mind.


----------



## JorgSlice

MMSS said:
			
		

> You may want to speak with a few banks or credit unions regarding consolidation loans as well. One loan, one payment, rather than 3 or 4. Watch the interest rates of course, but might be worth looking into as it can make things easier on your wallet and mind.



My parents consolidated all of their loans, credit card bills, mortgage onto a Manulife ONE Line of Credit, they were able to pay it off faster, with less interest than if they were to keep it all. They're still paying into their mortgage (fairly new house), but they said it's a lot more comfortable than before.

HOWEVER, be very, very, very careful with these sorts of things as mentioned by MMSS.


----------



## The_Falcon

DAA said:
			
		

> They must be new on the scene, as the two major players are those I mentioned above and are also the most commonly used sources of Credit Information by most major employers.
> 
> http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/creditloans/reportscores/index-eng.asp



Experian only handles American credit info.


----------



## Ducimus BTC

I am currently in the application process and over the years I have incurred some debt. I was advised by a recruiter at my local RC to start some sort of debt consolidation, which I have since started approx. 6 months ago. My question is am I expected to completely pay off this debt before receiving an offer? Or is the fact that I have a bi-weekly payment arrangement set up and I have been paying this debt off with no interruption seen as enough to start my career with the CF and continue this program?


----------



## The_Falcon

Ducimus BTC said:
			
		

> I am currently in the application process and over the years I have incurred some debt. I was advised by a recruiter at my local RC to start some sort of debt consolidation, which I have since started approx. 6 months ago. My question is am I expected to completely pay off this debt before receiving an offer? Or is the fact that I have a bi-weekly payment arrangement set up and I have been paying this debt off with no interruption seen as enough to start my career with the CF and continue this program?



Being in a DMP is not a show stopper, so long as you prove (through statements and the like) that you are in fact managing your debt, and that it won't be an issue to pay it given the starting salary of a PTE.  There is no real set amount of debt you can have.  It's the MCC's discretion (and sometimes his boss, and his bosses boss) based on government guidlines/policy for granting reliability status,  to decide whether to give you the thumbs up/thumbs down, based on the evidence provided by you.


----------



## Ducimus BTC

Thank you for your response Hatchet Man,

I have provided my local RC with a payment history from my debt management company and plan to update continuously. I also know that this payment arrangement will be able to be maintained with a PTE (R) income. I guess I will keep chipping away at it.

Thanks again for the feedback


----------



## ProtectAndServe

Ducimus BTC said:
			
		

> I am currently in the application process and over the years I have incurred some debt. I was advised by a recruiter at my local RC to start some sort of debt consolidation, which I have since started approx. 6 months ago. My question is am I expected to completely pay off this debt before receiving an offer? Or is the fact that I have a bi-weekly payment arrangement set up and I have been paying this debt off with no interruption seen as enough to start my career with the CF and continue this program?



Lots of people are scared of this when it comes to debts. As long as you're doing something about it you should be fine. I had debts, it wasn't crazy debt, but debt is debt right? Just showed em I'm serious about taking care of it rapidly and was allowed to continue processing. 

Keep doing what you're doing.


----------



## Ducimus BTC

I was contacted by my local RC today, I was told my file would be closed and I would have to wait 1 year because I started a debt management program. I could re apply online once the year was up. This concerns me because I originally joined on 2008 with debt, I did not start a DMP but showed my local RC I was making payments and my application was accepted, no problem. 

My question is, is this a way to brush me off? I have heard of others applying with debt and just showing proof of payments like some of you have previously said. I did VR after basic, is this a test of my character?


----------



## TheProfessional

So I have submitted my application for the reserve with a recruitment referral this week. I don't have any debts, but last year, I was self employed and struggled with making money and was late on one, maybe 2 credit card and cell phone bills. I paid everything back though. I now pay my entire balance every month on my credit card and don't have any outstanding debt. But my credit score is not perfect. If I have no outstanding debt, I'm assuming this won't be a problem for my applicaion with the cf? Might they ask me about past late credit card payments? It was never for huge amounts either, a few hundreds at most, and I eventually paid the entire amount back. No outstanding debts and I was never close to bankruptcy or anything like that, I am still living with my parents. It was just late credit card payments basically. It's been dealt with as far as i'm concerned. I also signed up for automatic monthly payments with my credit card and cell phone companies to make sure this doesn't happen again. I know this might sound silly in comparison to some of the very serious debts and bankruptcy problems described in this thread, but is there any chance this could ruin my application, or am I worrying for nothing?


----------



## krimynal

Hello everyone , I just got done with all the test and got approved to all of them , they told me I would get a job offer ( as an armoured NCM in the reserve ) , but first I would have to clear all my debts , or at least take some payments options with them.


I already know how dumb I was younger for not taking care of this , but I mean now I'm trying really hard to get this thing done ! I just called the places where I owed money , and made payments arrangement , but they don't want to give me any type of paper that proves it , they told me "the only paper we are gonna give you , is the one when the payment is done and over with " but we took monthly payments ..... 


The recruiter told me I had to give them proof that I made some type of arrangements with them so .... I'm kinda stuck ... anyone been there before ? ( I did check the Credit Check megaThread ) but the people in there all seemed to have some type of paper proving everything.


----------



## PMedMoe

One idea is consolidating all your debts for one payment.  If that's not possible, see if you can't get a bank loan, pay them all off and then you have the bank paperwork as proof.

Of course, it all depends on your credit history too.

How are you making the payments?  If they are coming out of a bank account, a copy of the statements may be enough paperwork.


----------



## krimynal

Yeah we'll I can't get a loan , but I'm going tomorrow to the bank to see if my girlfriend could cosign one for me , If ever it works , I'll pay all of them with the loan and then pay the loan itself ( which would solve all the problems )

But I'm still thinking , if ever it doesn't work , I'm still trying to figure out a way , I tryed to call the recruiting center , no one seems to know how to do it , so yeah ...... I just want to join in ....... I knew this would probably become problematic once I did all my paperwork , but didn't think those company wouldn't give me a paper stating that we have an agreement


----------



## Teager

Once you start making payments if they are coming out of your bank account directly you can bring your bank statement showing payment. Black out all other personel info on the statement with a sharpie. I'm not sure if that will suffice for the military or not but it does show proof of payment.


----------



## PMedMoe

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> If they are coming out of a bank account, a copy of the statements may be enough paperwork.





			
				Teager said:
			
		

> Once you start making payments if they are coming out of your bank account directly you can bring your bank statement showing payment. Black out all other personel info on the statement with a sharpie. I'm not sure if that will suffice for the military or not but it does show proof of payment.



Is there an echo in here?


----------



## krimynal

okay thanks a lot ! I'll see tomorrow , what will happen with the bank , and if ever it doesn't work , I'll try to show them a bank statement and try to see from that point.


----------



## Teager

My fault PMedMoe I must have missed the last line of your post.  :facepalm: 

Happens when I'm a bit tired.


----------



## krimynal

the good point is that if 2 people say the same thing , it's probably true


----------



## 421_434_226

Another option especially if you already have a poor credit history is to speak to your local Credit Counseling Service, these agencies can usually arrange it so you make a monthly payment to them and they, disburse it to your creditors. Makes for a payment history even if your creditors do not want to give you any paperwork and they quite often work for free or a small fee.


----------



## krimynal

thanks for all the different ways , I'll see tomorrow about the bank loan , if ever it doesn't work I'll check all those different options ! thanks a lot !


----------



## DAA

Gizmo 421 said:
			
		

> Another option especially if you already have a poor credit history is to speak to your local Credit Counseling Service, these agencies can usually arrange it so you make a monthly payment to them and they, disburse it to your creditors. Makes for a payment history even if your creditors do not want to give you any paperwork and they quite often work for free or a small fee.



I wouldn't jump on board this one too quickly.  Dealing with a "Credit Counselling Service" of any kind is a "reportable" activity to the Credit Bureau's and in some instances has a near similar effect on your credit rating as declaring bankruptcy.  If you do choose to go that route, then I would specifically ask that question to them.

Nevertheless, if you're making negotiated payments, then you should be getting monthly statements showing the payments being made.  The statements should be sufficient documentation as they should NOT being showing any "overdue" balances.


----------



## The_Falcon

DAA said:
			
		

> I wouldn't jump on board this one too quickly.  Dealing with a "Credit Counselling Service" of any kind is a "reportable" activity to the Credit Bureau's and in some instances has a near similar effect on your credit rating as declaring bankruptcy.  If you do choose to go that route, then I would specifically ask that question to them.



This...A good Credit Counsellor will list all your available options, and debt consolidation through them should be your second last resort (bankruptcy being your last resort).  They will tell you this (or they should if they don't walk away).   Once you are in a debt management program your credit will tank, you WILL be required to give up all credit cards (they will run a credit check to see who all your creditors are, so you won't be able to hold one back.  Depending on how much debt you have and how much you can afford, will determine the length of time you are in the program, (from what they told me, 3-6 years is the norm).  Also your credit will also be negatively effected for a few years after you have paid of your debts (3 years for equifax and 2 years for Trans Union), so even if you pay it off early, you will still be seen a credit risk for several years after the fact. 

A good credit counsellor (ie non-profits) will tell you upfront, your best option is go to your creditors yourself, and make arrangements that way.  You may still take a credit hit (lower score, and your available credit might be suspended), but it is a smaller hit than through the counsellors.  I speak with experience.


----------



## krimynal

thanks , yeah I'm trying to avoid at all cost bankruptcy and those kind of options , I mean I'm trying to get a bank loan first with a cosigner , if ever this doesn't work , I'll try borrowing money from a family member and pay up everything then paying him back , but still , I'd rather know all the information and be able to turn on a dime.


----------



## lucius

Unless your interest rates are extremely higher then the banks, a bank loan isn't going to help you.
Make payments, you have a legal right to receive a receipt for any payment you make. They cannot just refuse to give you one. 
If you can go to the company in person versus over the phone do that, bring in writing the plans you made with the company and your first payment if you have it. 
If you don't mind me asking, are you dealing with collection agencies, or directly with the companies?


----------



## krimynal

collection agencies , which are a lot more pain in the ass then the company itself ..... But I was dumb so now I have to deal with it , it is not really about the fees , its more about , instead of paying 200 to 3-4 different places a month , I can make 1 payment of like 200 , maybe for more months but at least I'm not gonna become broke out of it ....


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Not a perfect option but...sounds like your Beacon score isn't perfect right now anyways  8) WRT a consolidation loan is to try your bank...if the bank is a no-go, you could always try a higher interest place like CitiFinancial, Wells Fargo, etc.  You'll pay REALLY high interest if you pay the loan out over the term (think 50% of the loan itself kind of high, 29% compound interest) but it might be an option to get you on the right track.

Credit Unions also take on higher risk unsecured loans in some cases.  

And on a positive note, taking the steps you are taking now are better than _NOT_ taking them now and waiting until later life.  You'll be glad you did after this is all behind you (7'ish yrs if you play things right).

A good Beacon score can have many benefits; lower interest credit cards, mortgage rates, etc etc etc.

Good luck!


----------



## krimynal

thanks a lot , yeah I'm looking on the bright side , I mean I know its gonna be kinda hard for next year or so , but I gave myself a 8 year time length to get my credit back to A1 so I could hopefully buy a house once ALL my training is done and I get my first posting ( starting my Civi degree this fall so 4 years , then trying to do a CT to reg force Pilot probably 1 year in time length , then pilot training something around 2 years with all the wait , then my posting ) 

so If I solve everything right now , I might be able to fit this time period !


----------



## JorgSlice

If you're in Alberta, good place to go is money Mentors (they have a .ca too). They're not-for-profit financial advisory and debt counselling service. Not sure if they operate anywhere else.

http://www.moneymentors.ca/our-services.html

Edit: You're in Quebec so... Might not be an option however my advice stands for those looking for their services in the Great Canadian West.


----------



## s-otoole

Probably not, but you can definitely be a politician.


----------



## MacIssac

I have a judgment in small claims court from 2012 - although im in the process with a credit council to make payments on all my debt, just wondering if my judgment would be considered a legal obligation? Or are matters presently in front of a court considered a legal obligation? 


Thank you in advance


----------



## Amanda winter

I have really horrible credit, this scares me :/


----------



## PuckChaser

Amanda winter said:
			
		

> I have really horrible credit, this scares me :/



Then start fixing it.


----------



## Amanda winter

Not much can be done when you have no income -_- and cant get a job out of college


----------



## Amanda winter

Dont get me wrong, when I have extra money I do what I can. But its very difficult.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Amanda winter said:
			
		

> Not much can be done when you have no income -_- and cant get a job out of college



Any job is income. You are not above any form of income when you have outstanding financial obligations. Get a job. McDonald's, gas station, retail, server, etc. Start making payments, regular payments, on schedule, every month. Even if you can't make the minimum payment, some is always better than none. You'll find that creditors are very forgiving if you can _at least_ be counted upon to keep your word for small amounts on a regular basis. Increase the payments once you start to get a handle on things. As was said above--fix it.


----------



## Amanda winter

Trust me, ive been applying for a year now for every single minimum wage job out there. It's just not happening. Student loans put me into the ground and im trying.


----------



## PuckChaser

There's a specific reason there's a credit check, the CF doesn't want or need administrative burdens due to personal finances, or worse: individuals who can be persuaded by criminal elements/foreign intelligence due to their poor financial state. Work at McDonalds, or move if your local job market is terrible, but doing nothing will look terrible on your application.


----------



## FAL

How about Fort CrackFlurry er... McMurray? Judging from the people I've seen working here, you should be able to get a job no problem.


----------



## JoeDos

Here's my question, does no credit look as bad as bad credit? I only ask cause I don't have a credit card, don't have a cell phone or anything else that would raise or lower my credit. And considering I turned 19 in December its probably going to be blank.


----------



## Goose15

J_M_J_D said:
			
		

> Here's my question, does no credit look as bad as bad credit? I only ask cause I don't have a credit card, don't have a cell phone or anything else that would raise or lower my credit. And considering I turned 19 in December its probably going to be blank.



I couldn't imagine that no credit would be an issue at this stage. You just completed high school. If every person in your shoes was deemed in poor status; I believe I can make an accurate assumption in saying there would be A LOT of applicants deemed unfit or "undesirable" in the application process.


----------



## Robert0288

One possibility is to get a credit card with a small limit and just use it to buy coffee from Tim Hortins, thus building a credit history.  Plus they are useful in case of emergency as well.

The biggest thing is to make sure that you pay it back.


----------



## JoeDos

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> One possibility is to get a credit card with a small limit and just use it to buy coffee from Tim Hortins, thus building a credit history.  Plus they are useful in case of emergency as well.
> 
> The biggest thing is to make sure that you pay it back.



Unfortunately I don't have a job in which I work all the time, I am "on call" but generally don't work unless its holidays or long weekends.


----------



## Robert0288

I picked mine up when I was 17 and worked part time as a hockey referee.  Go in to your local bank and ask to talk to someone and explain your situation and request a small credit limit for the occasional online purchase, emergencies, coffee or what ever.  Most banks will also have credit cards available for students and young people as well.

I can't stress this enough though.  Pay off what you owe at the end of every month.  I've seen a bunch of friends screw this part up, and it never ends well.

In regards to your CF application, I, as distinct NON expert in the field can't see why a lack of credit history would hurt you.  Though developing a good credit history now when you are young will more than likely help you out later in life as you start looking for things like car loans and buying a house later in life.

edit:  I just did a quick google search and found that most, if not all major banks in canada offer secured credit cards, which allow you to deposit money on them first.  This from my quick look allows you to establish a credit rating without risk of spending money that you don't already have.  I suggest you take a look at this as a potential option as well.


----------



## JoeDos

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> I picked mine up when I was 17 and worked part time as a hockey referee.  Go in to your local bank and ask to talk to someone and explain your situation and request a small credit limit for the occasional online purchase, emergencies, coffee or what ever.  Most banks will also have credit cards available for students and young people as well.
> 
> I can't stress this enough though.  Pay off what you owe at the end of every month.  I've seen a bunch of friends screw this part up, and it never ends well.
> 
> In regards to your CF application, I, as distinct NON expert in the field can't see why a lack of credit history would hurt you.  Though developing a good credit history now when you are young will more than likely help you out later in life as you start looking for things like car loans and buying a house later in life.
> 
> edit:  I just did a quick google search and found that most, if not all major banks in canada offer secured credit cards, which allow you to deposit money on them first.  This from my quick look allows you to establish a credit rating without risk of spending money that you don't already have.  I suggest you take a look at this as a potential option as well.



Well here's the thing I really don't need a credit card, besides the fact of raising my credit. Right now I have one of those Visa Debit cards from TD Bank which allows me to make purchases online without risks of messing up my credit and I can only use what I have. I would rather wait until I either get into the forces or if I get lucky get a stable job before I get into the forces.


----------



## The_Falcon

The CAF isn't looking for credit information to approve a loan, just that you are not a security risk.  Ergo the only thing that recruiting receives is ADVERSE (ie delinquent payments, bad debt write offs etc.) information.  If you have no credit file then it is not possible to have adverse information.


----------



## DAA

J_M_J_D said:
			
		

> Here's my question, does no credit look as bad as bad credit? I only ask cause I don't have a credit card, don't have a cell phone or anything else that would raise or lower my credit. And considering I turned 19 in December its probably going to be blank.



Having no credit history would be the same as having a good credit history.  So don't worry about it.


----------



## Crispy Bacon

Amanda winter said:
			
		

> Not much can be done when you have no income -_- and cant get a job out of college



http://jobs-emplois.gc.ca/index-eng.htm

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/home-eng.do?lang=eng


----------



## PuckChaser

I even searched it for you:

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/job_search_results.do;jsessionid=77BF79FC2A745EC15D83A861A18C8288.imnav2?searchstring=hamilton&button.submit=Search


----------



## legalrec

Hi all,

I would like to add that good and bad credit are not the same as no credit.  Your credit score is based on your credit history.  When you get a credit report, it will list your score as well as all of your outstanding debts.  These debts will state whether they are being paid off as agreed (essentially are you paying the minimum monthly).  Your credit score goes up and down based on a multitude of factors, including but not limited to, applying for credit, defaulting on payments, increasing your limits and paying everything down.  

I was told when I was younger, and this was mentioned above, that if you do not have any credit history, get a credit card with your bank.  Get a reasonable limit and pay it off every month.  This is sometimes difficult for people, but if limit is only a $500 limit, the minimum should be easy.

This applies whether you are applying to the CF or not.  Starting a good credit score from a young age can help you a great deal later in life, trust me.

For more information, please read this information from the federal government.

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/forConsumers/topics/creditLoans/Pages/CreditRe-Dossierd.aspx

M


----------



## DAA

LegalApp said:
			
		

> I would like to add that good and bad credit are not the same as no credit.  Your credit score is based on your credit history.  When you get a credit report, it will list your score as well as all of your outstanding debts.  These debts will state whether they are being paid off as agreed (essentially are you paying the minimum monthly).  Your credit score goes up and down based on a multitude of factors, including but not limited to, applying for credit, defaulting on payments, increasing your limits and paying everything down.
> 
> I was told when I was younger, and this was mentioned above, that if you do not have any credit history, get a credit card with your bank.  Get a reasonable limit and pay it off every month.  This is sometimes difficult for people, but if limit is only a $500 limit, the minimum should be easy.
> 
> This applies whether you are applying to the CF or not.  Starting a good credit score from a young age can help you a great deal later in life, trust me.



For an application to the CF, I really don't think they are looking for a "credit score".  Credit "scores" are used for the purpose of or with the intent of lending you money.  The CF are looking purely at credit "history".  Therefore, having either a "good" or "no" credit history, get's you the exact same check in the box.

Your comments are geared more towards "establishing" a credit history, which does help you later in life but doesn't necessarily help you with your application to the CF.


----------



## legalrec

Fair enough 

Ok so I have a long winded question then...

If that's the case, then there must be some review of the extent of the credit and the reasons for the credit.  For instance, I probably have a lot more credit than the average person, but I also have 7 years of university that cost me a small fortune.  However, my income keeps me in a position that I can make my payments.  As such, I have a decent credit score.  However, if someone were to just look at my credit, they might be ill.

Therefore, does the amount of debt matter or is merely your history of paying as agreed and not going bankrupt, etc?  I have worked it out that a CF salary, even during BMOQ, would be sufficient to make all my payments... 

I say all of the above knowing that it is a pretty specific question to me and I don't really expect an answer.  I'll speak with someone about it when I'm at the recruiting centre next!


----------



## DAA

LegalApp said:
			
		

> Fair enough
> 
> Ok so I have a long winded question then...
> 
> If that's the case, then there must be some review of the extent of the credit and the reasons for the credit.  For instance, I probably have a lot more credit than the average person, but I also have 7 years of university that cost me a small fortune.  However, my income keeps me in a position that I can make my payments.  As such, I have a decent credit score.  However, if someone were to just look at my credit, they might be ill.
> 
> Therefore, does the amount of debt matter or is merely your history of paying as agreed and not going bankrupt, etc?  I have worked it out that a CF salary, even during BMOQ, would be sufficient to make all my payments...
> 
> I say all of the above knowing that it is a pretty specific question to me and I don't really expect an answer.  I'll speak with someone about it when I'm at the recruiting centre next!



Like I tell everyone and anyone.  Request your "free" credit reports through both Equifax and Transunion and the information you get, will be alot more than your CFRC gets.  Unless the report contains exceptionally high levels of debt or adverse information, it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## legalrec

I get my credit report every 3 months because I got bamboozled into the Credit Alert program and I've been too lazy to cancel it.  :-\  I know that my debts are in the normal range for someone with a law or medical degree.  However, for most people it's an obscene amount of debt with no assets.  Anyway, we'll see how it goes.

Thanks for the response!


----------



## DAA

LegalApp said:
			
		

> I get my credit report every 3 months because I got bamboozled into the Credit Alert program and I've been too lazy to cancel it.  :-\



I can tell you are already a "practising" lawyer.


----------



## legalrec

Hahaha...   :nod:

I've had to get the bank to automatically take my money because I can't remember days (except the ones where I get to sleep more).


----------



## The_Falcon

LegalApp said:
			
		

> Fair enough
> 
> Ok so I have a long winded question then...
> 
> *If that's the case, then there must be some review of the extent of the credit and the reasons for the credit. * For instance, I probably have a lot more credit than the average person, but I also have 7 years of university that cost me a small fortune.  However, my income keeps me in a position that I can make my payments.  As such, I have a decent credit score.  However, if someone were to just look at my credit, they might be ill.
> 
> *Therefore, does the amount of debt matter or is merely your history of paying as agreed and not going bankrupt, etc?*  I have worked it out that a CF salary, even during BMOQ, would be sufficient to make all my payments...
> 
> I say all of the above knowing that it is a pretty specific question to me and I don't really expect an answer.  I'll speak with someone about it when I'm at the recruiting centre next!



You ARE pretty lazy, I posted what information is received.  It's on this page about 6 posts up from your quoted post.


----------



## legalrec

I appreciate your response.  To be fair, and to be a lawyer, you didn't specifically say that a large amount of debt wouldn't be considered, as a factor separate from delinquency.  You said various things plus "etc".  There was some suggestion that the mere existence of a substantial debt would put you as a security risk.  I was just seeing if DAA had further information on the subject.  I apologize if I duplicated questions or information.


----------



## Goose15

LegalApp said:
			
		

> I appreciate your response.  To be fair, and to be a lawyer, you didn't specifically say that a large amount of debt wouldn't be considered, as a factor separate from delinquency.  You said various things plus "etc".  There was some suggestion that the mere existence of a substantial debt would put you as a security risk.  I was just seeing if DAA could help clarify some of the above information  on the subject.  I apologize if I duplicated questions or information.



FTFY


----------



## DAA

LegalApp said:
			
		

> I appreciate your response.  To be fair, and to be a lawyer, you didn't specifically say that a large amount of debt wouldn't be considered, as a factor separate from delinquency.  You said various things plus "etc".  There was some suggestion that the mere existence of a substantial debt would put you as a security risk.  I was just seeing if DAA had further information on the subject.  I apologize if I duplicated questions or information.



I depends on the dollar value, what the debt is for and whether or not you are making regular payments.


----------



## legalrec

Again, thanks for your responses. I will maybe draft a letter to put in my file explaining my debt.


----------



## DAA

LegalApp said:
			
		

> Again, thanks for your responses. I will maybe draft a letter to put in my file explaining my debt.



No need to explain anything, unless your CFRC asks you the question.  But it is always good to be prepared in case the subject does come up.

If they don't see an issue, then there is nothing that needs to be addressed.


----------



## legalrec

Aces.  Thanks DAA.  A wealth of knowledge, as always.


----------



## Cardiomegaly1

I'm hoping someone can shed light onto my situation:

I'm a first year medical student (finishing first year in about 3 weeks) and am currently in the application process for the MOTP. I have my CFAT in about one and a half weeks where I have to fill out all the reliability check stuff. 

As for my credit, however, I've been recently discharged from my bankruptcy, so I currently have no debt, but my credit report will show the bankruptcy for the next six years. I was thinking about attaching a letter to the reliability check forms (as well as my discharge letter) summarizing the following:

1. That I was sick with addictive disorder prior to two years ago
2. That I have been clean and in recovery for two years
3. That my bankruptcy was a result of my addiction, and that as can be seen, my payment history before addiction was immaculate and my compliance with the requirements of my bankruptcy to my trustee was also without fault
4. To implore them to judge my character and reliability on the man I am today in recovery, rather than judging me on my illness and the results thereof.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? I am really hoping that, since I am applying to a really skilled trade and that I can show that I've made every effort to straighten things out, that they won't simply look at the payment history and make a judgment.

Thanks in advance


----------



## The_Falcon

Cardiomegaly1 said:
			
		

> I'm hoping someone can shed light onto my situation:
> 
> I'm a first year medical student (finishing first year in about 3 weeks) and am currently in the application process for the MOTP. I have my CFAT in about one and a half weeks where I have to fill out all the reliability check stuff.
> 
> As for my credit, however, I've been recently discharged from my bankruptcy, so I currently have no debt, but my credit report will show the bankruptcy for the next six years. I was thinking about attaching a letter to the reliability check forms (as well as my discharge letter) summarizing the following:
> 
> 1. That I was sick with addictive disorder prior to two years ago
> 2. That I have been clean and in recovery for two years
> 3. That my bankruptcy was a result of my addiction, and that as can be seen, my payment history before addiction was immaculate and my compliance with the requirements of my bankruptcy to my trustee was also without fault
> 4. To implore them to judge my character and reliability on the man I am today in recovery, rather than judging me on my illness and the results thereof.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? I am really hoping that, since I am applying to a really skilled trade and that I can show that I've made every effort to straighten things out, that they won't simply look at the payment history and make a judgment.
> 
> Thanks in advance



If you had taken the time to read this thread, you would see your question is already answered.


----------



## Cardiomegaly1

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> If you had taken the time to read this thread, you would see your question is already answered.



I actually have read the thread. And I have read of a lot of different situations, some more similar to mine than the next. I saw no harm in outlining my own personal situation and asking for advice. I thought that's what this forum was for.


----------



## The_Falcon

Cardiomegaly1 said:
			
		

> I actually have read the thread. And I have read of a lot of different situations, some more similar to mine than the next. I saw no harm in outlining my own personal situation and asking for advice. I thought that's what this forum was for.



Asking for advice or questions about things that are truly unique is fine, however 99.9% (including your post), it's not all that unique.  Read this, http://army.ca/forums/threads/109058.0  People have asked what happens if they apply with a bankruptcy on their file, and others have told them what to expect, you are no different.


----------



## Treemoss

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Asking for advice or questions about things that are truly unique is fine, however 99.9% (including your post), it's not all that unique.  Read this, http://army.ca/forums/threads/109058.0  People have asked what happens if they apply with a bankruptcy on their file, and others have told them what to expect, you are no different.



What Hatchet Man said. But to give some insight, I talked to someone at my RC about what the financial check looks for. They look for if a collections agency had been on you before and if so, why and what have you done to improve that situation. If you've filed for bankruptcy they'll ask you why and the positive outcome of it. They don't care if you have student debts, they DO CARE if you aren't paying them.. that goes the same for all your debt. Basically, they want to see you paying stuff off, and if you havent, why not. The reason they do it is because it can be a potential security risk by being tempted to sell information or other stuff out...


----------



## Cardiomegaly1

Treemoss said:
			
		

> What Hatchet Man said. But to give some insight, I talked to someone at my RC about what the financial check looks for. They look for if a collections agency had been on you before and if so, why and what have you done to improve that situation. If you've filed for bankruptcy they'll ask you why and the positive outcome of it. They don't care if you have student debts, they DO CARE if you aren't paying them.. that goes the same for all your debt. Basically, they want to see you paying stuff off, and if you havent, why not. The reason they do it is because it can be a potential security risk by being tempted to sell information or other stuff out...



Fair enough. Fortunately, my bankruptcy did have a positive outcome, in that I met all my requirements to my trustee and was subsequently discharged. 

I have one final question about my situation. I was considering writing a letter, and attaching it to my reliability screening forms when I hand them in (along with my proof of discharge letter from my trustee). I want to be completely forthcoming from the very beginning, so I wanted to use this letter to outline exactly what course my life took to lead to this bankruptcy, the outcomes of it, my current life situation, and why I believe I should still get reliability clearance. I was hoping that someone could tell me whether this is a wise idea, or whether I should just wait for my interview to talk about it (since my recruiter told me that I would be given an interview regardless of anything adverse found on credit).


----------



## DAA

Cardiomegaly1 said:
			
		

> Fair enough. Fortunately, my bankruptcy did have a positive outcome, in that I met all my requirements to my trustee and was subsequently discharged.
> 
> I have one final question about my situation. I was considering writing a letter, and attaching it to my reliability screening forms when I hand them in (along with my proof of discharge letter from my trustee). I want to be completely forthcoming from the very beginning, so I wanted to use this letter to outline exactly what course my life took to lead to this bankruptcy, the outcomes of it, my current life situation, and why I believe I should still get reliability clearance. I was hoping that someone could tell me whether this is a wise idea, or whether I should just wait for my interview to talk about it (since my recruiter told me that I would be given an interview regardless of anything adverse found on credit).



Apply for your Credit Rating from BOTH Equifax and TransUnion Credit.  It's FREE and you can do it once a year.  So when it comes to the reliability screening process, they "might" be asking you questions based on what "they" received from both those credit reporting agencies.

You could very well be making something bigger than it is.  Fill out the forms, send them in.  Get your Credit Report and go from there.


----------



## Cardiomegaly1

DAA said:
			
		

> Apply for your Credit Rating from BOTH Equifax and TransUnion Credit.  It's FREE and you can do it once a year.  So when it comes to the reliability screening process, they "might" be asking you questions based on what "they" received from both those credit reporting agencies.
> 
> You could very well be making something bigger than it is.  Fill out the forms, send them in.  Get your Credit Report and go from there.



Thanks for the advice. I actually have very recent credit reports that I ordered, to see how everything is shown following my discharge. My bankruptcy does appear, although my discharged status does not yet appear, which I am told is not unusual since it takes a few months to update records. This is why I'm including my proof of discharge from my trustee, because this could be a technicality.


----------



## DAA

Cardiomegaly1 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice. I actually have very recent credit reports that I ordered, to see how everything is shown following my discharge. My bankruptcy does appear, although my discharged status does not yet appear, which I am told is not unusual since it takes a few months to update records. This is why I'm including my proof of discharge from my trustee, because this could be a technicality.



So then, you now have, what they have or will have.  Let the process run it's course and go from there.


----------



## guitargod1227

Yes I know this has been covered but  I would like some other opinions. My credit is pretty bad , I owe on my student loan and it had been awhile since I have paid anything down, same with my credit card. Prob around 10,000. If I come up with a plan to re pay everything with my bank will that make my credit check go more smoothly?


----------



## Occam

I don't know how many more different ways there are to say it.

From an enrolment perspective, the CF doesn't care if you have bad credit.  

*The CF cares if you have bad credit and haven't taken steps with your creditors to negotiate a repayment plan, or lived up to the obligations of that plan.*

They want to see that you have your debt being managed.


----------



## d_edwards

guitargod1227 said:
			
		

> Yes I know this has been covered but  I would like some other opinions. My credit is pretty bad , I owe on my student loan and it had been awhile since I have paid anything down, same with my credit card. Prob around 10,000. If I come up with a plan to re pay everything with my bank will that make my credit check go more smoothly?



The credit check as you should have read by now will expose your history of delinquent debts.  A plan will not change that outcome.
You should have had a plan in action and a history of following through already.  

So far this is what your debt management history looks like.
 :trainwreck:

I would expect a result that mirrors that.  But only your file manager will be able tell you how much weight 
they will give your "plans".


----------



## guitargod1227

Just finished my medical. I fully paid off 1 of my 3 debts in collections and plan to pay off the other 2 very soon. It was for $1500 and I paid it all off. Will this look good when they do my credit check? They are doing it now and I gave them copies of my 2 loans I paid off recently. Thanks


----------



## Occam

guitargod1227 said:
			
		

> Just finished my medical. I fully paid off 1 of my 3 debts in collections and plan to pay off the other 2 very soon. It was for $1500 and I paid it all off. Will this look good when they do my credit check? They are doing it now and I gave them copies of my 2 loans I paid off recently. Thanks



Let's face it - if you had debt at collections, your credit is trashed for 6 years.  Depending on when your credit check is done, it may or may not reflect that you've paid off your creditors.  Be prepared to show documentation that you've dealt with it in the event that your credit check doesn't reflect the current state of your debt.  That said, your credit history may still impact your "attractiveness" as a candidate - you may have resolved your outstanding debt, but all other things being equal, someone with a good credit history will still get picked ahead of you.  If you've taken care of the debt, I don't know to what degree your history will affect your suitability for enrolment - only the recruiting people can tell you that - but you've at least taken all the steps _that are within your control_ to minimize the consequences of a poor credit check.


----------



## stealthylizard

Get a letter from your creditors stating that it is paid/being paid off.  The biggest issue is that the CF doesn't want to be getting daily phone calls for Private Bloggins from XYZ Debt Collection Agency.  It takes time out of their day to get the message passed to you, and takes time out of your day to call them during training hours to deal with it.  They aren't supposed to call your employer, but they will, and often, since the only means of contact for you is through your employer (the CF).  Your chain of command will start hassling you about it because they are being hassled.

- Speaking from experience


----------



## placebodm

Hi, I'm wondering if my recruiting request could be rejected because my debts?  I have credit cards debts sended at a collection office.  Thanks.


----------



## The_Falcon

placebodm said:
			
		

> Hi, I'm wondering if my recruiting request could be rejected because my debts?  I have credit cards debts sended at a collection office.  Thanks.



Short answer. Yes your application may be rejected for a large amount of outstanding debt. 
Longer answer....16 pages worth, start reading and researching prior to making another post about this subject.


----------



## Jayson97

I'm currently in grade 12 and work part time. I have no loans and have have always paid my credit card, which I got in January, on time and in full. However, my family is on welfare since my dad is sick and unable to work. I'm listed as one of the dependents. Will this look bad on me or cause any problems with my application? Thanks.


----------



## legalrec

Welfare does not equal bad credit.  Credit is something attached to a single person, not a family.  If you are unsure of what your credit looks like, get your reports from Equifax.  If your only credit is a single credit card that you pay regularly, it seems unlikely that credit is going to be an issue for you, unless there is something you're leaving out.


----------



## Sempai Julia

I was at recruiting today talking to a fantastic PO who answered, in great detail, my questions on debt and it's effects on my application.
There was a "red flag" on my application, but after discussing the situation with the PO the red flag was removed and my application is back in the running.
Long story short.....get off the computer and do some good old fashion pavement pounding. Go to your recruiting centre and get your specific questions answered in detail.


----------



## HaZarD SFD

I have been told my my recruiter that my outstanding debt is going to be put up for Review unless I can get letters from all my creditors that I am paying them.  I have the option of not getting letters and going up to a review board, however I am being as proactive as I can in regards to this matter.


----------



## JBevy33

Hello,

I have one quick question that I forgot to ask my recruiter during my file submission and I was wondering if anyone on here could help me out. 

How much could a very low credit score affect your probability of being accepted into the Forces? 

to quote the immortal words of Kenny Chesney, i was "living life in fast forward". during my early - mid twenties and am still in the process of paying off my debts.

Any help on the matter would be very much appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## George Wallace

Merging with the long and informative thread that will supply you with answers to these and any other questions you may have.

George

Milnet Staff


----------



## Charlo24

The answer is yes, people with bad credit can join and be accepted into the army. Unfortunately for me, my credit has been going downhill. That being said, i've received a call a few days ago regarding my credit check and what not and all you have to do, is provide proof of an agreement of some sort with your creditors or collection agency if you are currently in collections. After that is done, you send the e-mail (to your RC) or any form of proof provided  by the company you are dealing with, and your application will continue further. All they need to see is an agreement, to make sure your current credit situation is being ressolved. Goodluck and all the best. YOU'RE WELCOME. 

Matt


----------



## jamesw

so is it debt like loans or is it debt like the collection agencies are after you? because i just did my cfat and i have a car loan. a bike loan and about 4100$ in credit card debt. bike and car are always paid for...credit card...well its hit and miss cause i work at walmart and hours fluctuate like a wave pool lol


----------



## Anira09

Hello
I had a really bad credit and they gave me a date for my interview 15 Sept but the called me the 13th Sept to cancel because my credit was bad. I made arrangements with my creditors and the Fc asked me that i should pay 3 of 6 payments. I did it and i went to give the documents that prove it last week. Anybody in the same situation???? How long can take till they call me again for a date for interview and medical?????


----------



## JoeDos

I had my interview today for the Naval Reserves. I had unfortunately had some debt build up in early 2015, but I promptly got on a debt consolidation program, and I have been working on paying it off, the MCC still found me eligible but she was a little concerned with my debt, though I have shown that I am working on it, with back up from documents the credit counseling society had provided, the MCC also wanted me to send her a letter on how I managed to get myself in with collections, and how I am fixing it, and how I plan to keep it so that I will not end up in debt again. My debt is the amount of $4800.00 so it is very manageable to pay off, but I am taking it slow right now with the monthly payments of $100.00, the MCC said she was going to send it to her debt manager, and she is recommending me. Should I be worried at all, or is this a common thing with people who have to deal with collections?


----------



## AKitchen

Anira09 said:
			
		

> Hello
> I had a really bad credit and they gave me a date for my interview 15 Sept but the called me the 13th Sept to cancel because my credit was bad. I made arrangements with my creditors and the Fc asked me that i should pay 3 of 6 payments. I did it and i went to give the documents that prove it last week. Anybody in the same situation???? How long can take till they call me again for a date for interview and medical?????



I went through the entire process and was on my Final Interview when i found out the dreaded words suitable candidate but not ideal bec of my debt, i was informed you need to show 3 months consistent payments and a payment plan or pay them off completely. I have a meeting next week to consolidate my debt with a creditor and have it removed completely and setup a payment plan so i can have my application continued. Hope this gives you an idea.


----------



## TheAngryCpl

So I am almost done my whole application. Just had medical and interview on Monday. All went well . the recruiter said he is going to skip my competition interview as the CAF needs me for the position. ( Armoured Soldier ) the last step they have to do is do a Reliability Screening which as I know reviews a credit check. I don't have good credit at all my cards and debt went to collections. The only thing I have done to correct it was back in November I have went to a credit counseling program to manage my debt and now its on track but stuff may show in collections still. I have given the recruiter a letter from the debt management program stating I have taken measures to pay my debt. Do you think they will still deny me as a recruit because of that. They said I would hear back in 3-4 weeks. Just nervous as this is something I really want to do. 

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheAngryCpl

So I am almost done my whole application. Just had medical and interview on Monday. All went well . the recruiter said he is going to skip my competition interview as the CAF needs me for the position. ( Armoured Soldier ) the last step they have to do is do a Reliability Screening which as I know reviews a credit check. I don't have good credit at all my cards and debt went to collections. The only thing I have done to correct it was back in November I have went to a credit counseling program to manage my debt and now its on track but stuff may show in collections still. I have given the recruiter a letter from the debt management program stating I have taken measures to pay my debt. Do you think they will still deny me as a recruit because of that. They said I would hear back in 3-4 weeks. Just nervous as this is something I really want to do. 

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## mariomike

Paulyduch said:
			
		

> So I am almost done my whole application. Just had medical and interview on Monday. All went well . the recruiter said he is going to skip my competition interview as the CAF needs me for the position. ( Armoured Soldier ) the last step they have to do is do a Reliability Screening which as I know reviews a credit check. I don't have good credit at all my cards and debt went to collections. The only thing I have done to correct it was back in November I have went to a credit counseling program to manage my debt and now its on track but stuff may show in collections still. I have given the recruiter a letter from the debt management program stating I have taken measures to pay my debt. Do you think they will still deny me as a recruit because of that. They said I would hear back in 3-4 weeks. Just nervous as this is something I really want to do.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk



See also,

The Credit Check Superthread- Merged Topics  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/13319/post-1474751.html#msg1474751


----------



## mariomike

Paulyduch said:
			
		

> So I am almost done my whole application. Just had medical and interview on Monday. All went well . the recruiter said he is going to skip my competition interview as the CAF needs me for the position. ( Armoured Soldier ) the last step they have to do is do a Reliability Screening which as I know reviews a credit check. I don't have good credit at all my cards and debt went to collections. The only thing I have done to correct it was back in November I have went to a credit counseling program to manage my debt and now its on track but stuff may show in collections still. I have given the recruiter a letter from the debt management program stating I have taken measures to pay my debt. Do you think they will still deny me as a recruit because of that. They said I would hear back in 3-4 weeks. Just nervous as this is something I really want to do.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk



See also,

Help
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/125109/post-1474753.html#msg1474753


----------



## TheAngryCpl

mariomike said:
			
		

> See also,
> 
> Help
> http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/125109/post-1474753.html#msg1474753


I can't check it. It says server too busy 

Sent from my SM-G928W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Emily92

I had a 409.00  bill in collections from 8 years ago and my whole application was froze till it was payed;   Hope yours doesn't.       Good luck 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DAHOK987

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There's a specific reason there's a credit check, the CF doesn't want or need administrative burdens due to personal finances, or worse: individuals who can be persuaded by criminal elements/foreign intelligence due to their poor financial state. Work at McDonalds, or move if your local job market is terrible, but doing nothing will look terrible on your application.



Read this and just thought I'd mention, someone who is unable to find work because of a crappy local job market, more often than not can't /afford/ to move. As moving requires first and last months rent somewhere, moving expenses (gas, rentals etc) and is often difficult to do even for people with a steady financial situation, suggesting this to someone who is unable to make minimum payments on a credit card, is probably not helping much. I only felt the need to mention this because that is the exact situation I am in now.


----------



## da1root

DAHOK987 said:
			
		

> Read this and just thought I'd mention, someone who is unable to find work because of a crappy local job market, more often than not can't /afford/ to move. As moving requires first and last months rent somewhere, moving expenses (gas, rentals etc) and is often difficult to do even for people with a steady financial situation, suggesting this to someone who is unable to make minimum payments on a credit card, is probably not helping much. I only felt the need to mention this because that is the exact situation I am in now.



The idea is that you should be living within your means.  Simply not having employment is not enough to be refused entry into the CAF, many applicants are currently unemployed or just graduated from school.  However if you have no employment and debt to the point of being in collections (or not being able to make minimum payments), that could cause your application to be closed.


----------



## Connor_96

Hi! I am currently in the process of the whole recruiting fun. I take my aptitude test next week. 

I am just wondering (further down the road if all goes smoothly with the CFAT) 
If having tax debt to Canada Revenue will be a problem. The debt itself was because of an employee error made by my current company.  They claimed respomsibility for it, but as far as the debt goes there was nothing they could do to help me.The debt is about 8000. I understand that they will like to see a payment plan etc. 

I am 20 years old
No credit card
And no other debt 

Do you think this Canada Revenue Debt will give me trouble?


----------



## mariomike

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> Do you think this Canada Revenue Debt will give me trouble?



You find this discussion helpful,

The Credit Check Superthread- Merged Topics  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13319.75
17 pages.



			
				Connor_96 said:
			
		

> The debt is about 8000. I understand that they will like to see a payment plan etc.



•Tell us about any personal debts you have and your plans to repay them.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## FinnO25

I have a small student loan debt (Under 6000) and a good credit rating, im just wondering if the student debt will cause me any issues?


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> I have a small student loan debt (Under 6000) and a good credit rating, im just wondering if the student debt will cause me any issues?



Forces.ca

"Tell us about any personal debts you have and your plans to repay them."
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100


----------



## FinnO25

Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> Thanks!



You are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## FinnO25

Hey everyone!

I just have a quick question about my credit check. Here goes, I do have some debt enough so that a letter from my creditor was needed. I now have acquired this letter with that being done, will it allow my application to proceed normally? 

Once again thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## Loachman

Hand it in to your Recruiter and see.


----------



## TheAngryCpl

Yes it should be okay. I did a debt consolidation loan. And gave a letter to prove it now it just shows I'm taking responsibility to pay my debt with a payment arrangement and everything went well. I wouldn't fret too much about it 

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## FinnO25

Thanks for the answer Paulyduch!


----------



## TheAngryCpl

No prob !

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## milkduds85

Good morning, 

I just came upon this forum a few days ago and have been digging through all the posts regarding the reserves, BMQ and applying. I noticed that some mentioned their credit scores as hindering their application and that's not something I had heard mentioned before, even at the info session I attended, Can anyone shed some light on how a bad credit score can hinder a Reservist application? I have debts from years ago that I am slowly chipping away at but I know some of them are in collections. This would be really disheartening for me if I my financial history keeps me out of the reserves. Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

milkduds85 said:
			
		

> Can anyone shed some light on how a bad credit score can hinder a Reservist application?



Credit history: financial problems can slow the enrolment process or, if there are related legal obligations that prevent you from deploying, may even disqualify you from the Forces.  If you have any debts, you will be asked about your plans to repay them. 
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#reasons

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Kietan

Hello, I’ve been looking on the forums quite freaquently but couldn’t find anything for my current predicament. 

So I was in the Forces as infantry  from February 2017 to August 2017 completing basic, going on to battle school, getting hurt, trying to vot, getting denied by my coc and ultimately told to vr and reapply in 6 months. 

I was released under 4c, and I tried to reapply in 6 months in which I was told by my recruiting center it’s actually a year. So I waited exactly a year and reapplied, I’m going Navy, Electronic Sensor Operator. I’ve done every step of the process and been granted my recruit school by pass and the process went fairly quickly as I was told the occupation is a priority trade and they want to get bodies in there as soon as possible. Now I’ve been waiting two months for the credit check/reliability screening, I’ve been in constant contact with my mcc about every two weeks I shoot him an email. I was told that my reliability screening is actually done he’s just waiting on the credit check which usually takes 5 days, That was beginning of January. As it was taking much longer then usual my mcc tried to inquire and put a priority on my file to which he got back to me and said “It is an internal issue on their part, but there are several people looking into resolving the issue from both sides.” I was wondering if anyone else is having the same problem? I know credit checks are fairly simple as you can do it yourself on mobile within minutes, I’m sure the caf do more thorough checks as well. Anyone who can share their own experiences or shed some light on the problem would be greatly appreciated. 

Best Regards Kietan 

P.s this is my first post so sorry if I put it in the wrong section or it was too long or anything!


----------



## da1root

Please keep in mind that the CAF does not do the security / finance checks for those coming into the CAF; it's done by a 3rd party company. So the "internal issues" would be with the company.
And yes it's a known issue that was being looked into, the volume of applicants that the CAF receives along with our own recruiting priority (i.e. in January-March time frame the push is on ROTP, in April the push is MOTP); so these priorities can cause hold ups in other files at times.


----------



## jdem007

Today I hit a road block due to bad debts and bad credits. Got turned away when I went for my interview. I was told this affected my application so I have to wait until I make arrangements and pay off the debts I owe. The CAF has a minimum you need to owe, if it's more than 4k they will ask you to lower it until they proceed with your application. So please make sure you deal with the debts if you are in the same boat. 
I'm really disappointed in myself. I should have known better. Anyway, I apologize everyone.


----------



## Annalu

I think they may ask to pay back the debt first or maybe you need to write a clarifying paper to promise the debt would be on your own responsibilities.


----------



## jdem007

Yes. That's what I was told. To come up with a plan, bring proof of receipts of the ones I already paid and lower down the ones I still owe to less than 2000. I have in total of 4k in cc debts. I'm kinda mad at myself because I should have prepared myself ahead of time for this. I should have asked when I went to see them and make them aware of my situation maybe I would have saved some time I wasted and time I am going to waste by having my application closed. But I'm a patient man I already waited 2 years so another 6 months won't kill me. I'm just gonna have to settle things I havent settled and keep preparing for BMQ. Now my only wish is that the fields I chose would still be open when I want to reopen the file. And I'm hoping they wont have to call my references again.


----------



## macarena

Hi, mates!
I'm new here. I've had been reading this post, since I am trying to enroll myself.
I also still have student loan to payoff, and the mine one have been send to a recovery agency. But if I get enrolled for an Officer job then I can pay all my debts in 18 months.
My question is: Is there any way to see how high security check is need for each job?
I mean, for Intelligence Office, I presume the security check would be Enhanced Top Secret (the 4st one, the highest one). But would it be the same high level for Logistics Officer?


----------



## PuckChaser

macarena said:
			
		

> Hi, mates!
> I'm new here. I've had been reading this post, since I am trying to enroll myself.
> I also still have student loan to payoff, and the mine one have been send to a recovery agency. But if I get enrolled for an Officer job then I can pay all my debts in 18 months.
> My question is: Is there any way to see how high security check is need for each job?
> I mean, for Intelligence Office, I presume the security check would be Enhanced Top Secret (the 4st one, the highest one). But would it be the same high level for Logistics Officer?



Enhanced Top Secret doesn't exist. The levels are Enhanced Reliability, Secret, Top Secret.

I cannot see the need for every Logistics Officer to need Top Secret, likely only required for very specialized employment.


----------



## macarena

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Enhanced Top Secret doesn't exist. The levels are Enhanced Reliability, Secret, Top Secret.



Hi, PuckChaser!
Thanks vey much for your reply.  :nod:
About the security levels, I don't master all of that yet.
But weeks ago when I was looking for jobs at the Gouvernment, then I've had read many civil job posts on IT (information technology) that asked for the levels specified below:
https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/services/government-security-screening.html





			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I cannot see the need for every Logistics Officer to need Top Secret, likely only required for very specialized employment.



This was an example of mine. I agree to you.

Well, I am from IT and actually almost all of the IT jobs at the Gouvernment are asking for the highest level of security. And since I am living outside Canada for 10 years, then I am very afraid to have my security check denied.  :'(
This is why I've imagined if I could choose an officer trade based on a low security check and then, after some years inside Canada, ask to transfer to some IT trade.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

macarena said:
			
		

> Hi, mates!
> I'm new here. I've had been reading this post, since I am trying to enroll myself.
> I also still have student loan to payoff, and the mine one have been send to a recovery agency. But if I get enrolled for an Officer job then I can pay all my debts in 18 months.
> My question is: Is there any way to see how high security check is need for each job?
> I mean, for Intelligence Office, I presume the security check would be Enhanced Top Secret (the 4st one, the highest one). But would it be the same high level for Logistics Officer?



Hi Macarena,

I hope you’ve been finding a lot of useful information during your time on Army.ca. Please continue to read as much as you can and participate where you’re able.

I noted a point in your post above where you mentioned a “student loan” and “recovery agency”. In that sentence, are you meaning that you have debts/loans which have been sent to collections?

Be aware, if you have current bad debts that haven’t been taken care of appropriately, this _may_  (depending on the specifics of your situation—ie. amount, payment plans in place or not, etc. etc.) hinder you from being successfully recruited right now.

I’m not a recruiter, nor do I have any insight into your personal recruiting process. (Only your Recruiter can give you definitive answers when he/she has obtained all necessary info.) Rather, I’m letting you know because you seem very eager to get in, which is good. But it’s also important to manage your expectations if you know you don’t have a straightforward background.


----------



## macarena

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> Hi Macarena,
> (...)
> I noted a point in your post above where you mentioned a “student loan” and “recovery agency”. In that sentence, are you meaning that you have debts/loans which have been sent to collections?



Hi, BeyondTheNow!
Many thanks for your message!
Yes, my debt has been sent to a collection agency some years ago, and it doesn't appear on my Equifax, nor on my TransUnion, credit reports. But it is a student debt with the Gouvernment, i don't feel myself properly by never paying.
I really appreciate your words. It is a very nice contribution when we can get advices from veterans, to help us to avoid the worst.
I am trying to communicate with the lender, to check if I can make payments directly to them for this debt.


----------



## Tantheman

Does anyone know what the deal is with bankruptcy and joining? I recently filed bankruptcy. Can I apply while i am bankrupt? After I am discharged of bankruptcy and debts all cleared in August, will I stand a chance at getting in if im very competitive on everything and the only black mark is a very recent bankruptcy?


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Your best bet is to speak with a Recruiter and explain the details of your specific bankruptcy situation. 

There can be different reasons for one feeling like they must declare bankruptcy (loss of job/employment for extended periods, unexpected medical situations not fully covered by health insurance, perhaps divorce/common-law rulings affecting expenses, etc., etc.), and I don’t know if it’s a hard no in all instances—I’m not a Recruiter. If the reason comes down to one simply not being able to manage finances and debt appropriately (too many credit cards/living beyond means, consistently poor management of income and not being able to pay debts due to simple irresponsibility, etc.) I know for certain that can affect a decision, regardless of how promising a candidate appears. 

No one here can tell you what your chances will be though. Speak with a Recruiter at your nearest CFRC or Reserve unit. You may end up being told that you’ll have to wait a certain amount of time before you can apply.


----------



## Tantheman

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> Your best bet is to speak with a Recruiter and explain the details of your specific bankruptcy situation.
> 
> There can be different reasons for one feeling like they must declare bankruptcy (loss of job/employment for extended periods, unexpected medical situations not fully covered by health insurance, perhaps divorce/common-law rulings affecting expenses, etc., etc.), and I don’t know if it’s a hard no in all instances—I’m not a Recruiter. If the reason comes down to one simply not being able to manage finances and debt appropriately (too many credit cards/living beyond means, consistently poor management of income and not being able to pay debts due to simple irresponsibility, etc.) I know for certain that can affect a decision, regardless of how promising a candidate appears.
> 
> No one here can tell you what your chances will be though. Speak with a Recruiter at your nearest CFRC or Reserve unit. You may end up being told that you’ll have to wait a certain amount of time before you can apply.



Hey man thanks for the reply!

It’s a combination of a failed(semi failed ) small business that was financed personally, was paying the debts and had a good high paying job but then got laid off. 

Your right, I need to contact the CAF directly so I can see if a career in the armed forces is a possibility for me down the road or not.


----------



## winds_13

Tantheman, until your bankruptcy is completely discharged, you will be ineligible for service in the CAF due to legal obligations. After that, the reasons why you files for bankruptcy will be highly scrutinized while considering whether or not you will be granted a security clearance.


----------

