# Cooks ( merged )



## RebornXmetalhead

Hello everybody!

Although this is my first post, I‘ve been reading a lot on this forum lately.
If this isn‘t in the right section, I apologize, just move it into the right one if you must.

So, I‘m wondering if there are any cooks here? I‘m graduating from a culinary school in Laval (near Montreal, Quebec) in a month.

Wanting to join the army, I was wondering if this was an interesting trade. If any of you know anything about it (besides information on the forces websites) I‘d be grateful to hear about it.

Also, I have read that I wouldn‘t need to do the 16 week cook training in Alberta, since I‘d already have a diploma and would be qualified for the job.

I‘m having a hard time deciding between joining as a cook, or joining into some combat trade. I have sucky vision though, so I guess I don‘t have as much choice as everyone else.

Thanks for your time, rock on.


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## brin11

Welcome to the boards.  Moving thread to recruiting.


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## buffboyali

Hey. Yeah there is other trades.I got sucky vision to and they told me I can be a cook, medic, or a clerk.


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## D-n-A

I‘m a "combat cook" at the moment(planning on remustering to the armour though). I know a guy in my unit who graduated from a culinary school, the only part of the Cook QL3 he had to take was the field portion of it. He is a reserve, I don‘t know if somone who joined up as a Cook in the reg force would be able to do the same.

Cook is a good trade, lot of hardwork. We can cook in a mess(on reg force bases), a small kitchen in the unit, in the field, etc. Since I‘ve been in, I‘ve cooked for my unit, and I got to goto the local naval reserve base in Vancouver, and cooked there for a few events.


We also train for defensive combat. A buddy of mine is on tour in the Golan Heights right now, he‘s a cook, an he does his job as a cook there, and also does  guard duty, etc


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## RebornXmetalhead

Ok so a cook‘s job isn‘t just restricted to cooking. That‘s good to hear.

If will I have to go to Alberta just to take the field portion part?

The only thing that bothers me is not beeing able to see my brother and close friends if I‘m placed in another province.

I‘m starting to get back in shape, it‘s hard. Can‘t run much either, haven‘t in years.
Working hard. As for cooking, it‘s pretty easy if you‘re organised.

Thanks for the info.


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## D-n-A

Where did you get Alberta from? As far as I know, the Cook QL3 is in Borden, Ontario. As for only coming onto the course for the field porition, talk to the career counsular at the CFRC. Getting in shape will help out a lot, Basic Training(BMQ) and the Soldier Qualification courses are physically demanding.


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## RebornXmetalhead

Oh my mistake, Alberta was for some other trade. So you‘re right, it‘s Borden Ontario.

I‘m aware of how demanding it is (physicly, mentally, and emotionnaly) which is why I‘m preparing well in advance.

I‘m not sure when to start applications, I‘ve been told it‘s best to do BMQ during the summer, but have yet to know why. But I‘ve been thinking about the army for more than a year (decided to go to culinary school before instead), and just can‘t take my mind off it, it‘s a challenge I‘d love to accomplish.


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## Old Cent Hand

Try the military , it is a very rewarding career. As cook ,you can go to sea. and go on tours ( travel oportunities of a lifetime). when you finish your engagement , or retire,you will have a background , that any employer will jump at. In Germany , when I was there, military cooks took part in Culinary Competitions , against  European Chefs , and took top honors.


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## RebornXmetalhead

Sounds good.
Should I wait to start applications?
Is it really best to do BMQ training in summer?
How long is it between first application and the physical fitness exam?
Perhaps training in the winter would be better because it's not as warm...
Just wondering what would be best.
I'm not in the best shape so I probably need a few months to get fit.
Thanks for the info.


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## Cheffie

Hello.

I am a seveteen year old student currently attending Sackville High School in Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia (10 min from Halifax). I've wanted to become a Chef ever since I was a young boy - and I think the Army would be a great jump start in my career. I've cooked with Chef Michael Smith off of the Food Network several times (not sure if you know him or not) and I have put in over 150 volunteer hours at Chives Canadian Bistro - a professional restaurant in Halifax. I feel very confident in my abilities to cook and I have a couple of questions to ask. If someone could please answer them, it'd be greatly appreciated.

1.) First off, does the reserves pay for your education? I have receieved my letter of acceptance to Nova Scotia Community College for their Culinary Program and I will start in September. Will they fully pay for it if I'm part time, or do they partially pay for it if I am part time?

2.) I was told by an individual that if I go into the reserves as a cook and they pay for my college education, I will go to school for the entire school year, and I will then work at a base full time during the summer, then repeat the process 'til I am finished my education. Can someone verify if this is true or not?

3.) If I have a culinary diploma behind my back, will I still have to do the training course? I'm guessing I still am. It dosen't really matter to me.

4.) When I sign a contract to join the reserves, what's the minimum amount of years I have to dedicate towards the Army? Someone told me it was 3.

I'm also open to joining the Army full time as well.

Thanks for your time.


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## D-n-A

1.) I'm unsure of this, I heard the reserves have stopped paying for post secondary, but I've also heard that that still will pay
If the reserves are still paying, than this is how it works.

copied an pasted off my units website

"Tuition reimbursement. $2000 per year or 50% of your tuition (whichever is lower) up to a maximum of four years or $8000. You must be in a program of post-secondary education leading to your first undergraduate degree or in a field of studies applicable to your military occupational trade."

2.) I don't know.

3.)If you do have a culinary diploma you will may only have to do the field portion of the Cook QL3. Thats what happened for a guy I know.
But you still have to complete your BMQ and SQ before you can go on the QL3 course.


4.) In the reserves, you do not sign a contract, and there is no fixed amount of time you have to spend in it.


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## Eowyn

AoS said:
			
		

> 3.)But you still have to complete your BMQ and SQ before you can go on the QL3 course.



Actually in the reserve Log world, you can do SQ and QL3 in any order, IIRC.  You just need the SQ before you can be promoted to Pte (Trained)


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## D-n-A

Eowyn said:
			
		

> Actually in the reserve Log world, you can do SQ and QL3 in any order, IIRC.



Yea, I forgot about that.   :-[


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## MikeM

The reserve education re-imbursment program is still in extisence, I filled out paperwork for it last night


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## pbi

Cheffie said:
			
		

> 1.) First off, does the reserves pay for your education? I have receieved my letter of acceptance to Nova Scotia Community College for their Culinary Program and I will start in September. Will they fully pay for it if I'm part time, or do they partially pay for it if I am part time?
> 
> _The Reserve Educational Reimbursement Program is alive and well. There are certain caveats and requirements, though-check with your recruiting centre or nearest Army Reserve unit (preferably a Service Battalion). I do not know if it will cover non-University education, although there is a large amount of support in the Army Reserve world for this, particularly in order to help Reserve support soldiers such as cooks and technicians_.
> 
> 2.) I was told by an individual that if I go into the reserves as a cook and they pay for my college education, I will go to school for the entire school year, and I will then work at a base full time during the summer, then repeat the process 'til I am finished my education. Can someone verify if this is true or not?
> _Well, the Reserve does not "pay for your college education". There is a program to partially reimburse your costs(see above). As for summer full-time employment, while cooks are in demand at all times, nobody can promise you in advance that you will receive full-time Reserve employment: be very careful here, and make sure you ask questions and get specific answers. Specific quaified Reservists are selected to fill specific positions: it is not a free-for-all._
> 
> 3.) If I have a culinary diploma behind my back, will I still have to do the training course? I'm guessing I still am. It dosen't really matter to me.
> 
> _This is a very hot topic in the Army Res and has been for at least ten years: the granting of direct equivalencies for civilian qualifications.
> While strongly supported in the Army Reserve world, ad suported by some existing Army Regulations, there is still (IIRC) some resistance from the Logistics Branch which owns the Cook classification. The best answer is to be prepared to take all the military training, but pehaps be pleasantly surprised. Make sure you can document your qualifications._
> 
> 4.) When I sign a contract to join the reserves, what's the minimum amount of years I have to dedicate towards the Army? Someone told me it was 3.
> 
> _In Canada there is no contract involved in joining the Reserves. You can normally quit whenever you like_.
> 
> I'm also open to joining the Army full time as well.
> 
> Thanks for your time.



Best of luck to you: you will be joining a very important trade. Canada, in my experience, is blessed with the finest Army cooks in the world: their work is hugely important for fitness and morale, especially on exercises and operations. Cheers.


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## mgreer

Hello All,

The first ever web site for serving and retired Canadian Forces Cooks, MOC 861, or Cooks from the RCASC has been set up.   Yes, that's Regular, Reserve, or Allied Forces are welcome!   Over 80 Cooks have registered and 1600 visitors in the first 2 weeks.   Come check us out and look for old friends, or pass the word to those you feel will be interested.   Thanks in advance...   http://members.shaw.ca/cfcooks

Michael
CF Cooks Web Site!


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## Argento102

Although I went infantry while in the forces, I am a professional contract chef in civilian life. One of the highlights in my career was to teach aboard a Los Angelas Class Nuclear Sub the USS MINNEAPOLIS
 the Destroyer USS ROSS, & the Anti Sub Frigate USS Nicholas in January of 2004. I have sent a recent 
query to personnel in our Canadian Forces, but I have yet to receive a response. I believe it is necessary to give our young sailors the best education. 

Would any Chefs here have a direct line to someone who I would contact this. Any help would be appreciated, as the forces taught me so many valuable lessons that I

wouldnt have learned anywhere else. I'd like to give back.

Sincerely,

Darren Johns  
11 Queen St, Port Hope
Ontario Canada
L1A 2Y8
905 885 8304
   



			
				Michael Greer said:
			
		

> Hello All,
> 
> The first ever web site for serving and retired Canadian Forces Cooks, MOC 861, or Cooks from the RCASC has been set up.   Yes, that's Regular, Reserve, or Allied Forces are welcome!   Over 80 Cooks have registered and 1600 visitors in the first 2 weeks.   Come check us out and look for old friends, or pass the word to those you feel will be interested.   Thanks in advance...   http://members.shaw.ca/cfcooks
> 
> Michael
> CF Cooks Web Site!


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## mgreer

Hello Darren,

Here is a link to the CF Food Services Web site;  http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/logbranch/NCM861_e.asp

A note though, CF Cooks are trained by other CF Cooks at CFB Borden, and as far as I know, they are not contracting out training.  They might some time the future, which I personally think would be more beneficial.  The environmental portion of the training can take place on the job, which most if it is anyway.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

Michael


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## winchable

Ah, Cooks, the last friendly faces you see before your day of beasting at the hands of instructors.

And the breakfasts, good god...so...goooood.


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## Argento102

Thank you MIchael. Much appreciated!!! 



			
				Michael Greer said:
			
		

> Hello Darren,
> 
> Here is a link to the CF Food Services Web site;   http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/logbranch/NCM861_e.asp
> 
> A note though, CF Cooks are trained by other CF Cooks at CFB Borden, and as far as I know, they are not contracting out training.   They might some time the future, which I personally think would be more beneficial.   The environmental portion of the training can take place on the job, which most if it is anyway.
> 
> Hope this is helpful.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Michael


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## DEVES

Hi there I was wondering if any cooks could tell me how a usual day is? Do you do PT every morning or do you go straight to the kitchen to cook a meal. How much time in the field do cooks get? Do you get any infantry training for example do you ever go the ranges. 
What would the percentage to civilian to military cooks be. 
As anyone known of any cooks being able to switch trades during training? Also I would like to know is after having some training would you be able to get a tour. How often does a cook get a tour?

Another thing is my questions would be more directed to a Army cook (Combat cook) Can a cook do any special training besides just cook stuff. For example the pistol team or something.

Oh and another question. For a highly fit person how tough would it be to get Para Wings. Is this offered to a cook often?


Is it tough to go up the ranks in the Profession?

Thank you very much


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## Roy Harding

Derek said:
			
		

> Hi there I was wondering if any cooks could tell me how a usual day is? Do you do PT every morning or do you go straight to the kitchen to cook a meal. How much time in the field do cooks get? Do you get any infantry training for example do you ever go the ranges.
> What you the percentage to civilian to military cooks be.
> As anyone known of any cooks being able to switch trades during training? Also I would like to know is after having some training would you be able to get a tour. How often does a cook get a tour?
> 
> Another thing is my questions would be more directed to a Army cook (Combat cook) Can a cook do any special training besides just cook stuff. For example the pistol team or something.
> 
> Oh and another question. For a highly fit person how tough would it be to get Para Wings. Is this offered to a cook often?
> 
> 
> Is it tough to go up the ranks in the Profession?
> 
> Thank you very much



God bless you Derek.  Although I was not a Cook, I've always held fast to my belief that this trade was/is one of the hardest working, most maligned, and often ignored in the entire pantheon of Military Trades.  Thanks for showing an interest in it.

I cannot answer your questions, as I don't have the requisite background - however, I'm sure a Cook will be along shortly.


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## Sig_Des

Retired CC said:
			
		

> I've always held fast to my belief that this trade was/is one of the hardest working, most maligned, and often ignored in the entire pantheon of Military Trades.



Agreed...also quite influential....a nice cook who's quick with a joke or a smile can make your day,

a surly one can kill it


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## Britney Spears

I'm not a cook either, although it was my first choice when I joined (ended up in the boring old infantry instead). Let me tell you that anyone who malignes or scoffs at a cook is almost guaranteed to be a reservist who's never been overseas. I'm not exaggerating one little bit when I say that the head KO is one of the most important and crucial positions in the camp, and rightly so. During operations the work of a cook is very demanding, starting the day early to prepare breakfast, and often working late into the night to ensure that soldiers coming back from long patrols and night operations don't hit the sack hungry. I can't speak for everyone but in my circle it was generally agreed that if any "perks" showed up, like extra air-conditioning units, the cooks should have the first pick, because happy and well rested cooks == happy, un-foodpoisoned troops.  



> Agreed...also quite influential....a nice cook who's quick with a joke or a smile can make your day,
> 
> a surly one can kill it



You've got it completely backwards. If you like your food, then YOU better be the one who shows up at the meal line with hat in hand and head bowed in deference, paying the good cook every courtesey he/she deserves.  We had a grizzled old KO who never ceased to jeer and frazzel at the young troops (like me) at every meal, would bellow and curse at you if you had a split second of indecision, and thought nothing of pressganging off-duty troops for menial tasks which were beneith his dignity. We ate like kings and loved him like a father.  

That's quite a mouthful for someone who isn't actually a cook, but I do take my culinary delights seriously.


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## DEVES

Sounds like a cook is a well liked fellow! Anyways can anyone answer my questions? Is there any cooks around this forum?


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## Roy Harding

Derek said:
			
		

> Sounds like a cook is a well liked fellow! Anyways can anyone answer my questions? Is there any cooks around this forum?



Son, I'm sorry - I really thought there'd be a Cook along - there still may be.

For what it's worth, I've sent a couple of email messages to old Cook friends of mine - let's wait for replies before we give up hope.

And you're right - Cooks are usually well liked fellows!

In the meantime - I'll do a little research regarding your original questions, and I'll post them tomorrow night - they won't be right from the "Horse's Mouth", but perhaps the "Horse's Ass" might be able to steer you into at least the right direction!!


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## DEVES

Thanks alot Retired CC  

And if any cooks come around please try to answer some of these questions.


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## mdh

Derek,

Look below on the threads, there is a similar inquiry about cooks - there is poster called caper861 who is a cook - he was last active in July 20 - send him a PM - that might help,

cheers, mdh


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## Roy Harding

mdh said:
			
		

> Derek,
> 
> Look below on the threads, there is a similar inquiry about cooks - there is poster called caper861 who is a cook - he was last active in July 20 - send him a PM - that might help,
> 
> cheers, mdh



Derek,

I'm going to assume that you took the above advice and got GOOD information from caper861.  Anything I might offer would be hearsay only (not to mention mixed up with my own opinions - of which I have too many).

Please let us know how you make out, and what you eventually decide.

Good luck.

Retired CC


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## Acorn

Cooks work hard and for long hours. They don't have time to be dinking around the internet.

That's why you haven't heard anything.

 to Eagle Beak (EB) and Bernie (3 PPCLI C Coy c1982): on ex up at 0430 and finished work at 2030 (or later if the troops were out on a night ex). Always hot food, always good, always fresh baked goods overnight. They set the standard I applied to all cooks I encountered through my career. Most met it.

Acorn


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## FormerHorseGuard

from what  i remember of watching the cooks at various bases
up at early hours,  we would go pick up the breakfast rations at 0dark30 and the cooks would already have them ready and be making the breakfast for the rest of the mess hall. so i would have to say  they are up very early if they are on breakfast details.

long hours are the normal day for them. 
there is not a lot of time to do much between meal hours,  guessing 0530 would be the morning shift for a cook,  mess hours 0630 till 0800 for breakfast, then clean up and get ready for the lunch , 1130 till 1300 , then clean up and prepare for supper , 1630 till 1800 
then clean up and go home. 
so depending on your mess duties you do have long days , especially when it is hot and humid out, i do not wish to be in a hot kitchen in the heat.

courses I think most courses would be open to you besides cooking courses. just have to earn your way on the course like any other CSS person. 

People here may or may  not know  but the Cook at the GG's house in Ottawa is CF chef,  a very  good one  at that. So you have the chance to aspire to cooking at levels that  most chefs cannot dream of. There are international cooking contests just for army  cooks,  one navy  guy from Base Toronto entered one year I was there, he went to France I think for the contest, did not win but had fun.

Yeah most cooks do tend to become over weight a little but that  is not because they are lazy, think there is too much good food around to try.

Physical fitness on the one base where I spent most of my time was a personal thing and guess for cooks you woud have to do at strange hours and not expect a lot of group PT outside of course time. 

Cooking courses are not all how to cook,  but as you go up the ranks, expect budgeting classes, food prep, storage, health codes, fieild operations, meaning setting up and operating int he field, including saftey and army stuff like how to defend yourself and the camp. how to order food,  how to cook for large groups, etc. 

I have never had any  serious complaints about army  food cooked in a kitchen, field kitchens are the best, nothing beats the smell of fresh food in the morning. 

if your going in as a cook good luck and enjoy it, because your cooking fr your friends and they count on your for good hot food, and a good joke to begin their day


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## honestyrules

The cooks, when not being tasked out in the field (depending of the unit) ,are working in the messes on base. So ,they're doing their job all the time. I figure that is a good point for them.
Be good with them and they'll be good with you. If you get crappy food for some reason, it is NOT the cooks fault! They do their best to feed you with what's available and the money they have.

I've been on taskings where the cooks had control on the budget and, needless to say, they fed us with the good stuff!

You get the first smile of the day from them guys! Can't beat it!


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## caper861

Hello, from Caper861 a girl!!  The one thing about being a good cook is you got to get along with people and leave the cranky's home.  The two things I learned through all of my years as a cook is 1: remember that the people you are serving are out there in the cold and working their a$$ off, they are having a meal but at the same time having a break so it won't kill you to smile it makes their day and 2: wear a watch and learn to use it since timings are the most important thing but don't pantic since this is something you learn to manage throughout your life.  I started in kitchens when I was 8 and joined the military in 1993 and served until 2004 when I was released on a 3b medical.  I thought of changing trades once and got the change from a chief clerk to go work a a clerk for 6 months.  Clerk is good but not for me.  As a cook, you have to like to be up on your feet and busy.  Socializing is another big one since everyone comes to the kitchen at one time or another.  We do work early and stay late, have people tell us that it doesn't taste like moms, drive trucks, play solider when in the field, and listen to people's stories.  I loved being a cook.  Where ever I went my glass was never empty and I always had a friend.  Just enjoy your job and try to get out and spend a day in the life of some other trades so you know what they need for there day, and give them their rations.  Plus it never hurts to through a few juice boxes or cookies over the side of the trailer to the "boys".  I you need any more info then please get back to me and I will do my best to answer all of your questions.  Good luck.


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## q_1966

whats the usual promotion rate for Cooks? 

Edit: I very much do want to join the Army as a Cook and just want a bit of extra info


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## mgreer

Derek said:
			
		

> Hi there I was wondering if any cooks could tell me how a usual day is? Do you do PT every morning or do you go straight to the kitchen to cook a meal. How much time in the field do cooks get? Do you get any infantry training for example do you ever go the ranges.
> What would the percentage to civilian to military cooks be.
> As anyone known of any cooks being able to switch trades during training? Also I would like to know is after having some training would you be able to get a tour. How often does a cook get a tour?



Whoa, I knew I should have been online here a little more often! As a retired cook, it sure is great to hear so many kind words about our CF Cooks. I can echo & return those remarks about the proud units & soldiers I had the privilege & honour of serving, and serving with. Which included the 2PPCLI (79-84), 3RCR (84-86), and PPCLI Battle School (86-90) in Wainwright.

I did however initially start out as a Patricia in 79 and shortly after 031 training I was standing on the parade square at Kapyong Barracks volunteering in the slave trade for what was supposed to be a 6 months stint as a "cook's helper" and ended up remustering 3 years later!

For those who might remember, these were the days of (God bless his sole) Sgt/WO Jerry "Hippy" Hipson and WO Joe Short, KO.

The slave trade in the early 80's was a dangerous gamble the battalion took in helping support trades when short staffed. I believe the infantry lost a few good soldiers to MSE Op's, Mil Police, Sup Techs, and 2 cooks I know at that time who eventually remustered. What was I thinking?

As for some of your questions, I can answer from what was the past, but doubtful it's changed much. We always had the opportunity to be part of the Airborne, JTF, Naval Boarding Party (it's actually encouraged!) and CF Sports. PT was normally carried out before late shirt after early shift in Army Units. I never did see a day of PT during my 3 year stint with the Navy, unless you count what they call now-a-days Express Test. Although limited with the Navy & Air Force, I do recall with the Army, rifle training/re-qualifying was carried out twice a year. I'm sure done much more with today's current climate of deployment. It used to be you were required to be TQ (QL) 5 qualified to go on a tour, but I went to Cyprus (82/83) as an OJT Cook, still an Infantryman. We currently take (and encourage) newly trained Ordinary Seaman to the Persian Gulf on OP APOLLO for 6 month deployments. As for promotions, just the same as most other trades. We have our slumps too.

The only downfall, if you want to call it that, as a cook (as with all support trades) you're likely at one time or another to be posted to Sea! Although I thoroughly enjoyed my transition/tour with the Navy, as Chief Cook of HMCS Ottawa in 96, a few cooks have had difficulty with the unique culture and vice-versa of course. I was very fortunate to also get time with the Air Force in Edmonton and Communications in Masset, BC (Queen Charlotte Islands). So it helps to be diversified. My heart however still belongs with the Army. Never before have I been treated so well, as I did with the Patricia's. I of course returned the gratitude.

If you really do enjoy cooking and the service, then I highly recommend the trade. You won't be disappointed, but it does help to have think skin.. The rewards far outweigh the means. For more resources, feel free to visit the web site I've set up for CF Cooks. You'll find a lot of currently serving cooks with the Army who will be more than happy to answer more of your questions. Be patient though, they can be a shy bunch. As you'll notice from our own message board, there is not much action! Go to http://members.shaw.ca/cfcooks/

Cheers, and good luck!

Michael Greer, CFM (ret'd)


for spelling..


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## DEVES

Thanks for that post, I thought it would be dead by now. I am going to go reserves as a cook. Eventually I might go reg. 

Hey Micheal did you get any other courses while being with all of the different units. I was kind of hoping to maybe get a few infantry course and I would like to get some jump wings. Probably doesnt happen often, if at all. 

Anyways thanks for the Great post.

Take care.


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## mgreer

Hello Derek,

Thanks, you're welcome, and best wishes with your employment as a Cook with the Reserves.  I started as an Infanteer, so I didn't seek further training in the combat arms once I re-mustered to Cook.  However, I do know that in some regiments cooks are required to maintain weapons training, etc. I do believe you can request jump training in some units as well.  Not sure if this applies to Reserve Units or not.

Hope this helps.  Cheers,

Michael


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## JackD

Since this thread is also a peon to the cooks - may I add my.. guess it should be two loonies here - I always made it a point to peel spuds for the cooks, and when transport corporal, to deliver the necessary propane, fuel their trucks and lend a spare truck for them to get away to shower or what-ever. You can't go wrong looking after the cooks! Nothing but respect for them - the field ones that is and those at the remote bases - Alert (1976), Egypt and Cyprus in my case. Please pass on these wishes to all the old and current cooks! One thing.... it's been 22 years... What is the recipe for those western omelets? Honestly - I still dream of those!


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## TN2IC

I have to say.. the cook trade is a thankless job at times. But when is comes to a hot soup on a cold day.. it sure makes you day bright. BTW.. people should make friends with a cook.. they are usally good at helping you out. And I tell ya..a crash course on potatoe preparing, armed with a NATO 45332-654578-1224 Kitchen knife... there is A LOT of potatoes to cut up for breakfast in the field kitchen. Trust me...I don't mind working on there MLVW truck when it comes to hauling the trailer around.


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## mgreer

JackD said:
			
		

> One thing.... it's been 22 years... What is the recipe for those western omelets? Honestly - I still dream of those!



Jack, I can assure you, that respect goes both ways.  Nothing is more appreciative than the support received from guys like you.  More often than not, there was someone there to put cam up on my Flying Kitchen, or dig my slit trench for me, while I'd be getting things on the go.  Mind you, they were also the ones gratefully receiving an extra serving of choice.

Did you want that recipe for a Western Omelet for a couple 100?  ;D

Here it is for 1, I figure you'll know how to increase the recipe;

    2  eggs             
    2 tbsp / 30 ml  fresh milk 
    Salt and pepper, to taste    
    1 tsp / 5 ml  butter     
    1/4 cup / 50 ml  finely chopped ham     
    2 tbsp  / 30 ml   chopped red and/or green pepper     
    2 tbsp  / 30 ml   finely chopped onion   

Beat together eggs and water; season with salt and pepper. Set aside. 

Heat butter over medium heat in an 8-inch (20 cm) non-stick omelet pan. Saute (fry) ham, red and/or green pepper and onion until tender, about 2 minutes. Pour in egg mixture. As mixture sets at the edges, with spatula, gently lift cooked portion to allow uncooked egg to flow underneath. Cook until bottom is set and top is almost set. 

Slip spatula underneath the omelet and fold in half. Slide onto a warm plate. 

Alternately, you can remove filling from pan, then add egg mixture and placing filling on one 1/2 the egg/pan, folding over the filling when botton is set.  Cook approx 1 min,  then flipping egg onto other 1/2 and cook until centre is done, approx another minute.  Enjoy.

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## Scott

My God I am so sorry that I missed this thread and so glad the hijack occurred and so happy to contribute to it further!!

During my QL3 in Aldershot we stayed in tent city and were fed, for the duration of the course, from flying kitchens. One of the older Sgt's, who had been Black Watch many moons prior, was cooking with the NSH and  had been tasked to Aldershot for the summer, he always took care of "his lads" when we came through - Heaping helpings, seconds, thirds, good humour and great, fatherly cheer. Sgt. Snow, wherever you are, I appreciated it then and even moreso now.

I work in the oil and gas industry and I do spend a fair amount of time in camps in remote areas of Alberta and BC. I have had some great meals and some truly horrible ones but I always thanked the cook. I have witnessed what happens to the guys who mouth off, on steak night they get the fattiest toughest piece of boot leather in the joint, if they get fed at all. By always saying thanks I never had trouble raiding the kitchen after hours when I was late, never had an issue nicking some "extras" for my lunch and always had someone to have a coffee with.

Hats off to cooks, a thankless job for which I am grateful!


----------



## ren

My wife told me about this message,she wouldn't let me not answer it so here I am... I am a reg force cook with 1PPCLI in Edmonton (14 years in) and here are your answers
1) There is no such thing as a usual day. 
  a) In a real world, you would know what shifts you will have from one day to the next but that isn't so..you are looking at 3 shift schedules and depending where in the kitchen you are working can determine that. Early shift starts at 0 dark stupid, day shift @ 07:30, and late shift starts at 10:00. Early and late shifts are 9 1/2 hours each.  Day shift is 8 1/2 hours. You get meals but not "an hour for lunch" , breaks are dependant on the work load.  Meals USED to be free for cooks but now we have to pay taxes on them, whether we have time to eat them or not (I digress)  :brickwall:
2) You only do PT when it is convenient .
 a) Before late shift or after for early and day shift.(running after an early shift, what a great idea!) 
3) Field time is dependant on what unit you are with.  3 months out of a year would be an average.  There are always other taskings that come up so if it is time away you want thats no problem.  
4) Once a year you have to go to the ranges and qualify (minimum requirement) Occasionally you will get fire something else.
5) There is 1 civilian cook in Edmonton but there are a lot more on other bases (we killed all ours).  :rofl:
6) I knew of an infantry guy that switched to cook during his training but leaving the trade is extremely difficult.
7) Tours are plentiful for the cook trade. If you want them, you can have them.
8 ) You can be a part of any team you want but time away from your regular duties is dependant on the work load.  Considerations are sometimes made for deserving members.
9) Jump courses are difficult to get but not unattainable. You would have to be one keen mf for that. 
10) As for going up in the ranks it seems to be getting a whole lot easier these days.  A lot of guys are retiring and positions open up very quickly.

P.S. The post about no cooks replying to you because they were too busy to be farting around on the computer. There is truth to it.  If you wouldn't take pride in doing a job like this, don't bother, the rewards are too few.  
P.S.S. We train to kill entire units in one meal not one at a time.  :evil:

Ren



Hi there I was wondering if any cooks could tell me how a usual day is? Do you do PT every morning or do you go straight to the kitchen to cook a meal. How much time in the field do cooks get? Do you get any infantry training for example do you ever go the ranges. 
What would the percentage to civilian to military cooks be. 
As anyone known of any cooks being able to switch trades during training? Also I would like to know is after having some training would you be able to get a tour. How often does a cook get a tour?

Another thing is my questions would be more directed to a Army cook (Combat cook) Can a cook do any special training besides just cook stuff. For example the pistol team or something.

Oh and another question. For a highly fit person how tough would it be to get Para Wings. Is this offered to a cook often?


Is it tough to go up the ranks in the Profession?

Thank you very much


----------



## JackD

Hi! I apologise for not returning my thanks for the recipe... Wahoo!! After 25 years! I live in Poland now - a teacher of English for my sins... Would there be anything I could get you from here - err within a reasonable cost - as my take home salary is 1000 zloties a month or 400 Canadian dollars... This weekend though...A western omelet a'la Forces Canadien! Once again, my thanks - and my thanks for all the cooks i've had dealings with...


----------



## mgreer

Hi Jack,

My pleasure!  Nothing expected in return.  Your kind words of our trade is reward two fold.  Very glad we were able to accommodate you with our old reliable omelet recipe.

Cheers,  Mike


----------



## gaspasser

ref PT, Most squaddies never trust a skinny cook. It usually means they aren't eating their own cooking. Cook is an honourable trade with loads of respect from the troops.  Be happy and the troops are happy. I have a few friends who are cooks and good at it.  Thier only complaint is that they are always supervised.  The Chef side of the house brings out their creativity.  
As a side note, it's very difficult to starve in a military kitchen.


----------



## Devlin

God Bless the Cooks

I am biased as a member of the CSS world but I have to say some of the best meals I have ever had came from CF kitchens and flying kitchens. The cook for our unit is also the Bde Chief Cook and one hell of a good guy. 

My favorites include
C4 Chilli - I have asked for the recipe he won't give it up  
BBQ steak 
Roast Beef

Kitchen Trailers are also a great place to hang out between CP shifts, I'd rather sit in the flying kitchen and peel potatoes and be warm than freeze my arse off somewhere else


----------



## Shamrock

Though the original post has been answered, let me continue the hijack.

I'm not here to say "some of the best food I've ever eaten" has come from a CF Kitchen.  I'm here to say, _the_ best food I've ever eaten has come from a CF kitchen.  I was married on base and had the reception at the mess.  The civi's in attendance were lvery concerned about having army-food, and the army guys were lined up and drooling in advance.  The meal was roast beef, and unlike the steamline, the cooks were able to invest time and effort in presentation.  I've had some good meals before, but never anything like that.  Even some of the five-star restaurants I've eaten at paled in comparison.  And flavourful!  Guess I should toss in that the meal itself was obscenely inexpensive.

Just thinking about the food makes me want to marry her again.

My hat's off to cooks, and not just because the mess tells me so.


----------



## big bad john

Callsign Kenny said:
			
		

> Though the original post has been answered, let me continue the hijack.
> 
> I'm not here to say "some of the best food I've ever eaten" has come from a CF Kitchen.  I'm here to say, _the_ best food I've ever eaten has come from a CF kitchen.  I was married on base and had the reception at the mess.  The civi's in attendance were lvery concerned about having army-food, and the army guys were lined up and drooling in advance.  The meal was roast beef, and unlike the steamline, the cooks were able to invest time and effort in presentation.  I've had some good meals before, but never anything like that.  Even some of the five-star restaurants I've eaten at paled in comparison.  And flavourful!  Guess I should toss in that the meal itself was obscenely inexpensive.
> 
> Just thinking about the food makes me want to marry her again.
> 
> My hat's off to cooks, and not just because the mess tells me so.



+1 on that.  My wife and I have the opportunity to eat out often because of our work schedule's and lifestyles right now.  We eat at some very posh places.  But the food pales in comparison to what I've had in the Mess.  IMHO service cooks are the best in the world.  They care and it does show.  I enjoy The Keg, but it doesn't compare food quality wise to a good Mess meal when it's put on.


----------



## Dissident

+1 for canadian cooks!

39 Brigade has some amazing cooks. Gold riboon cooks. Some of the food I had on cougar salvo and active edge, I was unprepared for. Just that good.

After +36 hours on on the road/field, it was an unexpedted treat to have hot chocolate and hot soup ready.

Any CSS trade that takes his/her job seriously, suporting another soldier, has my unwaving loyalty.


----------



## q_1966

Im starting my cooks training soon, how many mess dinners would I be doing a year, because im interesed in the more detailed stuff as appose to cooking cafeteria style


----------



## mgreer

Well that's primarily going to be dependant on where you're posted, and then what kitchen you'll be in.  An Officers Mess/Wardroom will have numerous high profile/mess dinner/formal meals each year, whereas a Junior Ranks Mess in an Army unit or aboard a ship will have considerably less.  That being said, there is a very high expectation that all meals, including cafeteria style are prepared and presented with the highest of quality and imagination.  That in itself is much more of a challenge than preparing and providing a mess dinner.  It's also greatly appreciated by the troops and sailors, for which I can attest.  Resulting in the comments you see here and why Canadian Military Cooks have the reputation they do with other nations military's.  Wait until you get the chance to try Norway's fresh field rations or a meal aboard a Chinese Destroyer.  You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn & provide both.  Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## Blackadder1916

In the course of my military career, I have eaten a lot of meals in mess halls and messes: in the field; on army, air force and navy bases; on service aircraft; even on a HMCS for a short period; plus have had to sample the culinary attempts of some foreign militaries.  So it is with some experience that I can confirm that CF cooks are some of the best in the world.  Their job is not to provide gourmet dining on a par with a five star restaurant, but they often do.  Even when they don't, the meals they provide rarely fall below the "good, wholesome" category.  I have many memories of good, or really good, or great or "hey, cookie if you weren't so ugly I'd ask you to marry me" meals.  I am still hoping that I can get scrambled eggs in a diner that are as light, fluffy and tasty as the ones I got in Cornwallis/Granville (yes) from a haybox, 30 years ago.  I have only one memory of a mess hall meal that was bad enough to require intervention.  CFB Borden on course, 1980, a Sunday evening.  We went across to the mess for supper and found only one choice of main course, "Sweet and Sour Luncheon Meat".  Canned crap on rice.  Well that brought out a lot of grumbling and threats (including of physical voilence) from the mostly medics and MPs towards the MCpl cook in charge at the time. The Duty Officer was called who called the KO.  If the MCpl was nervous about the threats from us, he was positively terrified after the KO was finished with him and not pleased that he had to cook steaks for us.
Who called the cook a c**t?  Who called that c**t a cook?


----------



## bogie

I never knew this site existed!!!! I was a CF Cook in Edmonton and Pet. Hello people!! Been awhile! Bogie!


----------



## retiredgrunt45

Where's the first place you head to, when coming of the line or coming of duty. The good old mess tent. Good food, good hot coffee and plenty of friendly faces. Oh and not to mention the hot pies and other goodies left out for the troops by the baker. Now thats a moral booster!

 One thing i learned early on in my career, is to always keep the cooks happy and they'll will always return the favour 10 fold.


----------



## tomahawk6

http://www.thewhig.com/webapp/sitepages/co...ws&classif=News

FORWARD OPERATING BASE 

SPERWAN GHAR, Afghanistan 

Of all the countless – and often thankless – jobs under the baking sun at this mountain base in southern Kandahar province, his is probably the hottest. 

Depending on who you ask – and how long it’s been since they’ve eaten a fresh meal – it might also be the most important. 

Master Cpl. Dave Dore, who’s attached to the Canadian Forces Joint Signals Regiment based in Kingston, has spent part of the last nine years flying across Canada and around the world, cooking first-class meals for dignitaries, two governors general and three prime ministers – including current Prime Minister Stephen Harper. 

Today, he spends his days in the sweltering, gas-fired heat of a portable Canadian Forces galley, boosting the morale of soldiers in Afghanistan one heaping cardboard mess tray at a time. 

“I started as infantry, then after a short stint I seen the light and went to cooking,” said Dore, 34.

During his brief time with Harper, he remembers the PM as a generally quiet fellow, and his predecessor – former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin – as a friendly, healthy eater. 

It’s Jean Chretien he remembers best, whom he describes in his best faux-Shawinigan drawl as a “beer-and-chicken-wings” kind of guy – provided he wasn’t travelling with his wife, Aline. 

“He said, ‘Dave, when my wife is on the plane, I want healthy food – carrot sticks, celery sticks,’ ” Dore recalled. 

“When she’s not on the plane, I want chicken wings and I want beer.” 

Of all the important mouths he’s fed over the years, the ones that line up at Sperwan Ghar for chow time – three squares a day, three days a week, lunch and dinner the rest of the time – are easily the most rewarding. 

“Absolutely, especially when the boys come back from being on rations for 40 days, and they come back to a fresh, hot meal, they’re just so grateful,” said Dore, originally of Elliot Lake, as he stirred a giant vat of spaghetti noodles – one of two entrees on the night’s menu. 

“The food that we have on, it doesn’t matter what it is, they’re just so grateful and you can you see the smiles, and you know that you’ve made a difference, that you’ve boosted that morale just a little bit.” 

Dore doesn’t just sling hash, either. It’s hearty – and largely healthy – comfort food, such as the stir-fried beef and rice, boiled vegetables, roast chicken and slabs of meat loaf he’s been serving in recent days. 

Most of the soldiers look forward to Thursday, which is steak night – often accompanied by a side of crab legs, lobster tails, or whatever else the supply lines from Dubai can provide. 

There’s no complaining from the troops, especially the ones who have just returned from a fierce several weeks shelling enemy positions from a Spartan base in Helmand province, leaving their field rations to warm up in the heat. 

“It’s unreal. You eat rations for so long, it almost, like, kills your taste buds,” said Bombardier Michael Hobb, of B Troop from the 2nd Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, based in Petawawa. 

Hobb, 20, from Yarmouth, N.S., has spent the last 10 days with his fellow gunners at a no-frills forward operating base in Helmand, manning Canada’s M-777 Howitzer cannons in support of coalition troops trying to flush Taliban fighters from the province’s opium-producing northern tip. 

He said soldiers often have to be careful when switching between field rations and fresh food, since making the adjustment can be hard on the system. But he’s grateful to be eating like a human being again. 

“To get here and eat a fresh meal – it could have been anything, really, but it was amazing,” he said. 

“They’re really good cooks here – and all the food that we get is unreal. Some of the guys who were here before said they were getting steak and lobster. They take really good care of us here.”


----------



## geo

Huah.... nut'in but the best for our boys in the field.
Beer & chicken wings be damned!

Thanks for those great cooks in their field kitchens!

CHIMO!

(used to have one cook working for me.... the only thing I had to ensure the officer factored in to his staffing plan was a day off for the cook on payday.  The cook would be out to lunch and bent out of shape for 24 hrs..... not much of a price when you conside there's another good 14 days of good cooking in-between)


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Ah yes, we had some awesome cooks back in the day in 2 RCHA.
The battle cry one year while in bivouc in Norway was to look at the Americans hard-rationing it next to us even whilst camped and us yelling  "WHAT?,..steak, AGAIN?"


----------



## HansonSherren

Hi there - I have a quick question.  Long story short, I'm flip flopping between either joining as a cook (I'm a chef already) or a steward (N).  My papers are in already and I did my medical and interview today and currently I'm signed up as steward but can switch to cook (but I have to let them know in the next few days) .. basically my husband and I are outweighing the pros and cons - the only cons to joining as a steward is being away from my family for so long.  Am I correct to assume that if I go as a cook (Army), that I'm only sent away for 6 months during my 3 yr contract?  If yes... then my next question is, where could I be stationed?    When I did a search this is what came up:  

    * CFB Edmonton, Alberta
    * CFB Gagetown, New Brunswick
    * CFB Kingston, Ontario
    * CFB Montreal, Quebec
    * CFB Petawawa, Ontario
    * CFB Shilo, Manitoba
    * CFB Suffield, Alberta
    * CFB Valcartier, Quebec
    * CFB Wainwright, Alberta
    * Connaught National Army Cadet Training Centre (CRPTC Connaught), Ontario
    * LFCATC Meaford, Ontario
    * LFAATC Aldershot, Nova Scotia

Is it safe to assume I would be posted to one of these 12 places?

I did a search and couldn't find the information I was looking for so I hope you don't mind my question.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give!!


----------



## PMedMoe

As a cook you can be posted anywhere in the military.  It's a "purple" trade so it doesn't matter what color your DEU is.

As far as your remark about only being sent away for 6 months during your 3 year contract, I have no idea what you are getting at.  You can be sent on tour (be it Afghanistan, Alert or elsewhere), you may be sent on courses (trades training, etc) and there's always taskings, field exercises.....


----------



## dirtnco

I beg to differ with Pmedmoe, but you or any other military cook will never be posted to Meaford unless you luck out (hehehehe) and arrive for your SQ. The reason being is the Civvi Hunta that thinks it runs this place will not allow a real maker of the meals to practice his/her chosen trade. For whatever reason the inhabitants if the Puzzle palace on the Rideau seem to think that the organization that is currently in place is doing a good job. Those that have graced their tables know better. :skull:
Moe good to see you are still kickin, say hi to Fred.

Stew


----------



## TheHead

HansonSherren said:
			
		

> Hi there - I have a quick question.  Long story short, I'm flip flopping between either joining as a cook (I'm a chef already) or a steward (N).  My papers are in already and I did my medical and interview today and currently I'm signed up as steward but can switch to cook (but I have to let them know in the next few days) .. basically my husband and I are outweighing the pros and cons - the only cons to joining as a steward is being away from my family for so long.  Am I correct to assume that if I go as a cook (Army), that I'm only sent away for 6 months during my 3 yr contract?  If yes... then my next question is, where could I be stationed?    When I did a search this is what came up:
> 
> * CFB Edmonton, Alberta
> * CFB Gagetown, New Brunswick
> * CFB Kingston, Ontario
> * CFB Montreal, Quebec
> * CFB Petawawa, Ontario
> * CFB Shilo, Manitoba
> * CFB Suffield, Alberta
> * CFB Valcartier, Quebec
> * CFB Wainwright, Alberta
> * Connaught National Army Cadet Training Centre (CRPTC Connaught), Ontario
> * LFCATC Meaford, Ontario
> * LFAATC Aldershot, Nova Scotia
> 
> Is it safe to assume I would be posted to one of these 12 places?
> 
> I did a search and couldn't find the information I was looking for so I hope you don't mind my question.
> Thanks in advance for any help you can give!!



Have you looked at your trade specific site on Forces.Ca? It has a lot of helpful information.

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=861&bhcp=1


----------



## SGGriffey

Hi everyone, I was wondering how many cooks the army is needing this year, and if it will be a long wait to get a job offer for this trade?

Also assuming I get a job offer for cook, will I be able to take my own tools, or will all that be provided?

Thanks.


----------



## MikeL

Call your local CFRC. They will have all the info you want.


----------



## 2 Cdo

You do realise that being a cook is the toughest trade in the CF, don't you? 


Nobody has ever passed the basic cook course!

Apologies to all my cook friends but I couldn't resist.


----------



## Cridden

I started my application in April, did my medical and interview on May 11, and am just waiting for the call now. I am going in as cook as well. I haven't seen many posts about cooks on here...nice to know there are a few of us interested in serving. 
I cant wait for the call...its been three weeks now, and feels like 3 months. 
I already have my red seal, as well as 20 years of experience in the industry, so apart from basic, the transition should be relatively smooth for me. My former apprentice joined last year and is posted back here at Gagetown, and I hope to get back here as well. 
From talking to many CF cooks recently, you'll love it...I cant wait.
Good luck.


----------



## matwxx

Hello,

I ve been searching for the cook trade, but there isnt much related topics. If I hold a civi college certificate of cooking, Will I be able to shorten my training and live outside the barrack with my family after the BMQ?


----------



## kratz

No.

Your initial trades training will be the same as anyone entering without cook skills. This is intended in part to introduce new cooks to how the CF conducts their galley's operations. I have seen red seal chefs, ect... join and start off the same way.

Later, after your QL3 when you are in an operational galley, you will have more than enough opportunity to demonstrate your true skills and based on them, you will be merited for advancement.


----------



## matwxx

kratz said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> Your initial trades training will be the same as anyone entering without cook skills. This is intended in part to introduce new cooks to how the CF conducts their galley's operations. I have seen red seal chefs, ect... join and start off the same way.
> 
> Later, after your QL3 when you are in an operational galley, you will have more than enough opportunity to demonstrate your true skills and based on them, you will be merited for advancement.




Do you know how long is the training in cook?


----------



## ammocat

According to the recruiting webpage, training is 18 weeks at CFB Borden, then 18 months of one the job training.


----------



## matwxx

I like to know how's life in the period of trade training. Is it mandatory to stay inside the barrack 7 days/ 24 hours? Can you go out on weekend and stay overnight?  And what time wake up and take off from work?


----------



## PMedMoe

matwxx said:
			
		

> I like to know how's life in the period of trade training. Is it mandatory to stay inside the barrack 7 days/ 24 hours? Can you go out on weekend and stay overnight?  And what time wake up and take off from work?



You are not a prisoner in the barracks.  Depending on your course and instructors, you will have free time and should be able to take leave on your days off.  As far as what time you get up and when you get off work, that depends on the school.  Most cooks work some kind of shift but I don't know if they do that at the school or not.

Do you actually have a college certificate?  I only wonder as according to this thread, you have an AME diploma and were looking at another trade/entry plan in August, and here, you spoke of entering as an NCM and then going Officer.

Are you sure about what you want to do??


----------



## Herb

Here is some help for you.  I've just joined and I'm off the St.Jean on Nov. 1st.  I joined air force cook and I do have my red seal.  They gave me cpl. after doing BMQ and also QL5 qualified.  I just have to do a one week crash course in Borden and then I get posted.


----------



## PMedMoe

Herb,  do you have all that on a message or is that only what you were told _verbally_?


----------



## matwxx

I have a few certificates and diplomas on hand. I am worried that I wont pass the CFAT retest again in End of October because my English is poor. So if I cant reach the requirement in Aviation Tech then I will go on to Cook as my second choice. It just that the recruiter told me is mandatory to stay in barracks everyday for the whole training, so I thought the policies must be very strict. And also, for BMQ, do you wake up at 5am and take off at 11pm? Just want to clarify.


----------



## Occam

matwxx said:
			
		

> I have a few certificates and diplomas on hand. I am worried that I wont pass the CFAT again in October because my English is poor. So if I cant reach the requirement in Aviation Tech then I will go on to Cook as my second choice. It just that the recruiter told me is mandatory to stay in barracks everyday for the whole training, so I thought the policies must be very strict.



"Pass the CFAT again"?  To the best of my knowledge, you'll only ever do the CFAT once (unless you remustered years down the road), and if you qualified for cook the first time around, then you won't be retested.

Have you given copies of the certificates and diplomas to the recruiters, and requested a prior learning assessment for advanced standing in the cook trade?  That's how Herb would have gained his advanced standing of Corporal/QL5 on completion of BMQ.  That's a minimum four year jump on untrained people.

Your recruiter may have been referring to BMQ, during which you would be initially confined to barracks, but gradually be granted additional privileges like weekend leave away from the base, etc.  Once BMQ is done, you're a big boy and as long as you attend training and assigned duties on time, your off time is yours to do with as you please.


----------



## Herb

when I went to Ottawa recruiting center, they gave me my offer and told me when my course would start.  The offer said cpl once completing basic and QL5 qualified.  I saw the paper and then the master corporal wrote excepted on the sheet and gave me a swear in date


----------



## FDO

Everything you get will be laid out in the ETP message. That's the one that will start your career. If you have graduated from a college that the CF recognizes then you will go in as Semi-Skilled and that will advance you in your trade right out of BMQ. The prior learning assesment will take care of that. 

As for CFAT. There are several differnt levels of "pass" you can only qualify for cook but unless you have grade 12 academic math in Ontario you won't get it. I have seen people qualify for the Tech trades but not Combat Arms. They are based on different aspects of the CFAT. You can re-write the CFAT but you need a waiver from the UPSO to do it a second time and a waiver from CFRG to do it a third. You may only write 3 times and the score that is used is the last one you wrote.


----------



## matwxx

FDO said:
			
		

> Everything you get will be laid out in the ETP message. That's the one that will start your career. If you have graduated from a college that the CF recognizes then you will go in as Semi-Skilled and that will advance you in your trade right out of BMQ. The prior learning assesment will take care of that.
> 
> As for CFAT. There are several differnt levels of "pass" you can only qualify for cook but unless you have grade 12 academic math in Ontario you won't get it. I have seen people qualify for the Tech trades but not Combat Arms. They are based on different aspects of the CFAT. You can re-write the CFAT but you need a waiver from the UPSO to do it a second time and a waiver from CFRG to do it a third. You may only write 3 times and the score that is used is the last one you wrote.



I wrote the first CFAT in August, the recruiter told me I am 1 mark away from passing for Aviation Tech. (guess that's what the recruiter said to all the CFAT failers) Then he told me I can do a retest in the end of October, and also mentioned that my CFAT mark would qualified various trades such as cook, medical tech, military police, etc. So thinking if I failed again, I will join cook. I think I will do better this time but concerning about my english. I had studied many GED and bought a few books from CHAPTER such as the ASVAB, but only a few sections of the book is useful to CFAT. I also download complex diagram exam on internet. I am okay in math.

I sort of looked the semi skill up but confused. I hold an AME dip and cook cert, am I qualified for the 2 trade in semi skill plan too? Guessing that would shortened the training. What is prior learning asessment?


----------



## matwxx

Occam said:
			
		

> "Pass the CFAT again"?  To the best of my knowledge, you'll only ever do the CFAT once (unless you remustered years down the road), and if you qualified for cook the first time around, then you won't be retested.
> 
> Have you given copies of the certificates and diplomas to the recruiters, and requested a prior learning assessment for advanced standing in the cook trade?  That's how Herb would have gained his advanced standing of Corporal/QL5 on completion of BMQ.  That's a minimum four year jump on untrained people.
> 
> Your recruiter may have been referring to BMQ, during which you would be initially confined to barracks, but gradually be granted additional privileges like weekend leave away from the base, etc.  Once BMQ is done, you're a big boy and as long as you attend training and assigned duties on time, your off time is yours to do with as you please.



I gave my copies of papers to the front desk when I first hand in my application form. Then I got call for CFAT 2 weeks later. Hoping there are leaves everyweek so I could spend some days with my wife and family.


----------



## matwxx

Herb said:
			
		

> Here is some help for you.  I've just joined and I'm off the St.Jean on Nov. 1st.  I joined air force cook and I do have my red seal.  They gave me cpl. after doing BMQ and also QL5 qualified.  I just have to do a one week crash course in Borden and then I get posted.



So there choices that you can join navy, army or airforce cook? Whats red seal? Wow one week of course...thats really good.


----------



## Herb

No I chose air forces and after my plar they came back and said cpl. and QLL5 qualified.  They said one week crash course but I'm not holding by breath.  It doesn't matter if I have to do it all as long as I get my cpl and QL5's I'm very happy.  And yes red seal


----------



## FDO

"Red Seal" means you are a Journeyman. You have completed your  apprenticeship and have written any exams required for qualification and professional status with the Provience or Country.

As Cook is what we call a "purple" trade you can choose whichever uniform you want. "Purple" is a term we use to describe certain trades that no matter what colour uniform you wear you still do the same job. Some trades such as Infantry, Armoured, MARS etc are specific to thier element so they have no choice. But Cook, RMS, Medic, etc have a choice. It doesn't mean any more money and just because you choose an Army uniform doesn'ty mean you'll never serve on a ship. Conversley if you wear a Navy uniform you may end up in a field unit.

The PLAR is the "Prior Learning Assesment Request" It's what we send to the Managing Authority of an occupation and they determine what level you are qualified to and what training you will have to complete. It all depends on education and qualifications.


----------



## PMedMoe

matwxx said:
			
		

> Hoping there are leaves everyweek so I could spend some days with my wife and family.



Just curious about where you're from.  I'm assuming Toronto but I could be wrong.  The trades training for Cook is in Borden, so you may be able to go home on weekends.  Just be prepared while on course (or later in your career) that you may will be sent on taskings, to the field or deployed.


----------



## matwxx

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Just curious about where you're from.  I'm assuming Toronto but I could be wrong.  The trades training for Cook is in Borden, so you may be able to go home on weekends.  Just be prepared while on course (or later in your career) that you may will be sent on taskings, to the field or deployed.



I am in Vancouver. How often will you be sent or deploy to the field?


----------



## PMedMoe

matwxx said:
			
		

> I am in Vancouver. How often will you be sent or deploy to the field?



Depends on where you are posted.  If you are posted to a field or operational unit, you may be sent out often.  You could be tasked, you could be deployed.

If your family is in Vancouver, don't plan on a visit during your trades training unless you get a break over the Christmas leave period or March break.

I can't remember if I said it earlier or not, but if you really don't like the idea of being away from your family for any period of time, you may want to consider the reserves.

Also, you should be contacting your recruiting centre and discussing some of your issues with them.


----------



## FDO

Depends on what regiment, ship or unit you belong to. If you belong to a base you will probably not deploy very often. A ship does on average 4 - 6 months away a year depending on the readiness level. As for an operational Army unit I'll leave that to experts in that field (pardon the pun)


----------



## LossStop

Hey, male 25, Graphic designer.
Have settled and am resolved. Been working out and jogging for the last two months. I am all set and ready to go. I wish to join as a cook, though not sure which branch to go with. What would be some differences as a cook in each? 

Also, another question. Are cook positions difficult to get? Are they often filled / closed?


----------



## McD

http://forces.ca/html/cook_reg_en.aspx Under Career Development it shows a breakdown of cooks. My understanding is you can end up anywhere since its one of those 3 wide trades...But others with much more knowledge than I will weigh in. 
Good luck.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Dude,

Go Navy;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpmPt7SGBGM

dileas

tess


----------



## 57Chevy

Like the video...........best cooks found on ship
(no offence to other egg flippers)  ;D


----------



## McD

Seagul cranking it up "ANOTHER NOTCH , BAM."


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Just keep in mind...you could join as a cook in the Navy uniform and get posted to an army base/unit OR you could join as a cook in the army uniform and be a cook on a frigate.  Cooks are "purple" trades, meaning they can serve at/on any Base/Wing/HMCS where Canada sends its forces, including tours and deployments.


----------



## LossStop

Thanks for the info everyone. Was leaning towards navy myself. Much thanks.


----------



## kkwd

Read this  Thread to see what someone else experienced in the cook trade.


----------



## Steel Badger

Just as a point:  the cook trade is currently closed.

NCM SEP (subsidized education plan) positions for cook are still available. To be considered for NCM sep you must have unconditional acceptance to an accredited school program. ( See CFRC for the list)


----------



## Steel Badger

See what happens when I post without thinking... ref my last:
Cook NCM Sep is closed as well 


My apologies,


----------



## Rogo

well  are you any good?  

if so then go Army, I like food and recently was accepted into ROTP Inf O.   So I'd say Army!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Rogo said:
			
		

> well  are you any good?
> 
> if so then go Army, I like food and recently was accepted into ROTP Inf O.   So I'd say Army!



Actually, the CF doesn't hire people based on the needs of "pennies".   8)


----------



## McD

Rogo said:
			
		

> well  are you any good?
> 
> if so then go Army, I like food and recently was accepted into ROTP Inf O.   So I'd say Army!



It is a Purple Trade.
[quote author=Eye In The Sky] 
Just keep in mind...you could join as a cook in the Navy uniform and get posted to an army base/unit OR you could join as a cook in the army uniform and be a cook on a frigate.  Cooks are "purple" trades, meaning they can serve at/on any Base/Wing/HMCS where Canada sends its forces, including tours and deployments.
[/quote] 


But good for you   ;D


----------



## Franko

Rogo said:
			
		

> *well  are you any good?  *
> 
> if so then go Army, I like food and recently was accepted into ROTP Inf O.   So I'd say Army!



So did the recruiter ask if you were any good at being an Infantrymen prior to being accepted?

See how retarded your post was? Probably not.

Do us all a favour and go on listening silence before you are placed on it.

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## LossStop

Steel Badger said:
			
		

> Just as a point:  the cook trade is currently closed.
> 
> NCM SEP (subsidized education plan) positions for cook are still available. To be considered for NCM sep you must have unconditional acceptance to an accredited school program. ( See CFRC for the list)



Thanks for the info Steel Badger. How often are trades closed for, or is there no telling? Is there a site where I can keep checking to see when it opens back up and apply right away? Or can I apply now and will be notified when a cook spot opens?




			
				kkwd said:
			
		

> Read this  Thread to see what someone else experienced in the cook trade.



Thanks for the link kkwd, interesting. Have a better understanding of what purple trade means now.


----------



## McD

No harm in procuring all necessary paper work in going in tomorrow / this week to see what you can do. Although this isn't "my lane" ;D so i'll just wish ya all the best!!


----------



## Rogo

LossStop said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info Steel Badger. How often are trades closed for, or is there no telling? Is there a site where I can keep checking to see when it opens back up and apply right away? Or can I apply now and will be notified when a cook spot opens?




From what I've heard elsewhere on Army.ca the opening and closing of trades can happen quite suddenly, now I'm not sure if this is the case but as McD said nothing wrong with paying them a visit or even a phone call.  I usually find the recruiting centres very helpful.     Either way best of luck and sorry for the attitude earlier.


----------



## Steel Badger

Rogo

Trades do have vacancies appear and dissappear with amazing rapidity. In the main, only those who have been merit listed ( or close too it) get the offer, especially in the current situation of few slots and a hockey-sock full of applicant's for each.) 
In addition, we will NOT process an applicant for an already closed trade. We may open your file, but that is where it stops. No CFAT, Interview etc.

FWIW, I do work at CFRC.


Cheers

SB


----------



## Nicky_Bobby

So if someone joins as a cook at the age of 18 is it true that the navy will pay for him/her to go to college before serving their time?


----------



## Rogo

Call your local recruiting office or drop in and ask for papers related to the Cook trade.  Also most information can also come on the Forces website.    95% of education and recruiting questions on Army.ca will get the answer "Call the Recruiting Centre."  Just a heads up.


----------



## twistedbydesign

Hey folks, I am sure someone has probably answered some of my questions before and for that I humbly apologize. I tried to get some of these questions answered through the "Ask a Recruiter" option on the Forces website, but frankly their answer was very vague. I suppose since actual CF Cooks frequent this site I may get some specific answers. Ok so back story, went to George Brown for Culinary School quite a few years ago, have since been working in Fine Dining places and with some of Canada's best Chefs. Close to done the hours for an apprenticeship but havent signed up as one yet. Now being a Cook or Chef especially in Fine Dining is perhaps one of thee most brutal jobs to date paying minimum wage, with no benefits, often working for free to "get the job done". Well I am more then halfway to thirty and starting to have to think about magical things like the future. As a cook the Forces seems to pay better then pretty much anywhere. 

Firstly, I am wondering about the subsidized education. I am missing a course for my college papers and am wondering if the Forces will pay for me to finish it. I was told from a few friends of mine who currently serve that with prior training you can get a promotion to Corporal very quickly. Not that I care much about rank, but money is nice. Also on that note, looking at the pay scale there is a big "-" under Basic. Does this mean that during Basic Training you dont earn any money? And if I shell out on finishing my college papers when do you recieve your 10k reimbursement?

Part of Canada's Apprenticeship program entails that the apprentice learns different aspects of cooking (ie Stock making, butchery, sauces, etc) To what aspect does the Forces do things in house? Would I be expected to skin and debone a ton of fish for the troops, or pull them out of the freezer to defrost prepackaged? Does a Forces kitchen do things like make stock? I understand that depending on the situation the enviroment and needs of the cooks change, but I am wondering about a more 9-5 scenario. Also, I did read that depending one where your posted you do formal dinners (which is what I am used to) how exactly do you get these postings? Is it based on rank and time in, or skill, or luck?

I am a little worried that I might be selling out my knowledge and specific talents for extra cash (dont get me wrong Ive never cooked for 1500 people and THAT is a talent). I was very depressed to learn that Cook and Steward are the lowest trades for which you have to be qualified in the Forces, which worries the hell of out of me! I would just like to get some insight from someone that is currently a Cook so that I know what I am getting myself into! Thank You!


----------



## Pusser

I'm not a cook, but I have been in charge of cooks.  Yours is a common dilemma.  Altough there are master chefs who make a lot of money (far more than any cook in the CF ever will), they are few and far between and most cooks on civvy street work very long hours for very little money and not much thanks.  On the other hand, military cooks are much appreciated and valued (although sometimes you may feel otherwise).  A good meal can make a world of difference in the morale of folks who are working under crappy conditions and a long way from home.  You will also get paid reasonably well and have a pension, vacation and medical/dental benefits as well.  Then there are the opportunities to travel to exotic locations... ;D  However, to answer some of your questions:

To the best of my knowledge, if you come in as a "skilled applicant," you can receive credit for previous training, which may effect your promotion to corporal (or leading seaman in the Navy).  Check with your recruiting centre for up to date information on that.  If you are pursuing further education that is directly related to your military occupation, there is reimbursement available.  Normally, reimbursement for a course is only issued once you have successfully completed it (i.e. we don't pay your tuition and then watch you fail the course).  We don't generally reimburse you for training completed before you joined.  Reimbursement is also available in some cases for education that is not directly related to your occupation, but that's a different question than the one you asked.  It is also possible that some of your CF training will cover the things you're missing, in which case you might not have to pay anything.  There of plenty of red seal chefs in the CF who have gotten there credentials while serving.  Once you're in the CF, the Base Personnel Section Officer manages reimbursement for outside education programs at the local level.  Your training authority manages all in-service coursing.

I'm not sure what pay scale you were looking at or where in the scale you were looking, but yes, you get paid while undergoing training.  After you are enrolled (i.e. raise your hand and repeat after me...), there may be a brief period of Leave Without Pay before you start basic training, but once you report for that, you get paid from there on.

We do all kinds of cooking in house.  Although we do make use of pre-packaged items, we also do a lot from scratch.  We have had an on-again, off-again approach to butchering and I'm not sure where we are with that right now, but we do virtually everything else and everywhere else!  As a cook you can find yourself working in a huge kitchen on a static base, doing the same thing in a much smaller galley in a ship (where everything moves - sometimes violently), or in a field kitchen (essentially a trailer) in the middle of knowhere.  CF cooks cook for hundreds, if not thousands, daily and take great pride in the quality of the food they produce and it is frankly some of the best military cuisine in the world.  Our allies love to eat with us.  I've never seen a powdered egg in a CF kitchen and have enjoyed fresh baked bread, pastries and cakes both in the field and in the middle of the ocean (although cakes at sea can sometimes be a little lop-sided :nod

We do formal dinners all the time and all CF cooks are expected to take part.  There are some specialty jobs (e.g. VIP flight crews), but candidates for these come from the mainstream and will return to the mainstream after they've finished that posting.  Don't worry too much about the enrolement standards for cooks.  Yes, they're on the lower end, but once you're in, you will see that the cream rises to the top.  Good cooks with good leadership and management skills will progress.  The down side is that the higher in rank you go, the less cooking you will actually do, but that all depends on your desires and ambition.

As for working hours, there is no nine to five.  This is an organization that is obsessed with starting early in the day and breakfast starts before that.  So, there will be times when you will have to be up at 0400 to ensure the meal line can start at 0600.  Mind you, we tend to work the  shifts so that there are some guys who come in early and go home early and others who come in late and then leave late (sometimes supper doesn't end until 1900).  There WILL be long days and you will have to work weekends.  However, for the most part, when you're on a base, you will be able to live a pretty normal life, with days off etc.  You will work harder and longer in operational units.  On the plus side, there are sometimes opportunities to make extra money doing some of those formal dinners and the like.

In summary, being a cook in the CF offers many challenges and oppportunities, but it is not for the faint of heart.  Bad or lazy cooks get identified pretty quickly and gotten rid of (we don't actually throw them overboard, but I've heard that threat... )If you're up to it though, it can be pretty rewarding.  I've never met a CF cook at the end of his/her time in the CF lamenting that it was all wasted.


----------



## twistedbydesign

Thank you for such a detailed reply, it did answer a great deal of my questions, and have eased my trepidation about applying quite a bit. Does anyone know if the Cook trade is open?


----------



## PuckChaser

It's not one of the "In Demand" jobs on the Forces.ca website, so chances are that it is closed. You'll never find out for sure, however, unless you call or visit the Recruiting Center. They make take you since you're at least semi-skilled entry (don't quote me on that though).


----------



## Cdnleaf

twistedbydesign said:
			
		

> Thank you for such a detailed reply, it did answer a great deal of my questions, and have eased my trepidation about applying quite a bit. Does anyone know if the Cook trade is open?



I think it's outstanding that you are considering this profession.  Difficult to express the profound respect and gratitude I have towards CF Cooks.  All the best, Dan.


----------



## MARS

Twisted,

I am not a cook in the military, but I am in charge of the cooks on a minor warship (i.e. Small ship with 3 cooks, unlike a frigate or destroyer with a much larger brigade and more space)  So, my comments are not reflective of the entire trade (i.e cooks posted to a base or to a field unit).

However.....I graduated form GB's culinary management program in 2006.  I had the privilege of mentoring under John Higgins, doing my stage at George under Lorenzo Loseto and some experience cooking for Lynn Crawford, Teddy Coraddo and Brad Long in my brief culinary career to date. (I was lucky enough to land a shore posting in a job in Toronto that I could (and did) do in my sleep while I devoted my free time to earning $350/week while giving 70 hrs a week to Chef Lorenzo. So I know where you are coming from about fine dining and the hardships that go with it.

You will not find anything approaching what you know on anything resembling a regular basis.  Ever.  I have never seen truffles, fois, beef cheeks, taro root or even trumpet mushrooms in a military kitchen.  Its hard to simmer a stock for 9 hrs when you have three or more services in a day.  Burner space is at a premium – all the time.  It's impossible to have daily fresh deliveries when you are at sea for weeks at a time with no replenishment.  Its hard to do what you have done in your career, when, as Pusser pointed out, your entire kitchen is pitching back and forth in heavy seas.

You WILL do institutional-style cooking as the norm.  Steam lines.  Lots of frozen and dry goods – they keep longer and are easier to make into a meal when your day is filled with all sorts of things other than being in the kitchen , like drills or worse.  Powdered bases because you don't have the space for as much fresh stock as you would need to feed hundreds of people – again – three times a day.  You won't work with the same kind of people you are used to.  They won't be as insane or have the same kinds of crazy lifestyles, but they likely won't be as single-mindedly driven to produce top flight food, every hour of every day out of fear that Chef will fire your a** right off the line if you don't.  Not everywhere, at least.  If you apply yourself, you will get a chance to compete in the CF culinary olympics and work with those like minded people.  By and large, however I have met very, very few people with experience like yours.  Those I have met are nearly revered in the CF and manage to create insane stuff in ridiculous circumstances.  EVERYBODY knows and remembers their meals.

However, judging by your original post, it appears to me that you might have had your fill of the thrill and that you are looking for the bennies.  Those my friend, you will find in spades.  Yes, you get paid in basic training.  Compared to what you and I are used to earning, you will feel rich by comparison.  You wont spend 14 hr days, 6 days a week, 350 days a year in the kitchen.  You might spend those same hours doing a variety of things on a shorter term basis, but that is not the norm. And the Chef isn't going to freak out at the first opportunity simply because business is down.  Business is never down in the CF 

In addition, you will be serving food for really, really hungry, hard working folks, for whom their next meal is not only the possible highlight of their day, but the perhaps the first hot food that have had in a while.  Poeple go nuts at the smell of fresh bread first thing in the morning at sea.  There is something infinitely more gratifying about that than cooking a work of art for some a**hole who sends back his meal because he doesn't know the beef sashimi is supposed to be served rare or because he wants to impress his/her guests with their clout.

Pusser is correct, it is not straight-up 9 – 5, but it is far less insane that what you have come to expect as “normal” to date.  Yeah, I know about “working for free” and I remember all of the days off everyone in my brigade was owed – because we almost NEVER closed, so Chef couldn't ever give us our days off.  Not so in the CF.  You will be amazed at how different it is – pleasantly so.

This is not an indictment of CF cooks.  But I can appreciate your experience to date and want you to know how different it will be from your previous life.  But that may be just what you are looking for.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions about the lifestyle.

Regards,

MARS
_edited for spelling and grammar_


----------



## twistedbydesign

Wow, that was the exact thing I needed to hear! Thanks MARS! I am most likely going to apply sometime this week and hope they're hiring cooks. I really do love feeding people, but even at twenty six the fine dining gig is really starting to take its toll! (I lost 40 pounds within the first three months when I started, and was pretty darn skinny BEFORE at that!) You would be happy to know that Chef Higgins is still the BIG man on campus (pun intended). As much fun as the insane a la carte fine dining goes, I think ive had my fill of it, learned what I could and now its time to move on to learning a different aspect of the industry. Thank You so much for your replies everyone you have been much more helpful then I could have hoped for! Hopefully my burned out chef body can take the rigors of basic! Thanks Again


----------



## aesop081

I'm not a cook either but thought i would add a little to what has been said.

On my second tour, my unit had a cook who was a miracle worked. He had been a chef on civvy street and then joined the CF. This guy was the best moral booster there was. He could make a fantastic meal out of anything. It was so good that Canadian troops from other camps, and also foreign troops from around the country, after word spread, would make excuses to come to our camp for a meal.


----------



## Pusser

MARS said:
			
		

> You will not find anything approaching what you know on anything resembling a regular basis.  Ever.  I have never seen truffles, fois, beef cheeks, taro root or even trumpet mushrooms in a military kitchen.  Its hard to simmer a stock for 9 hrs when you have three or more services in a day.  Burner space is at a premium – all the time.  It's impossible to have daily fresh deliveries when you are at sea for weeks at a time with no replenishment.  Its hard to do what you have done in your career, when, as Pusser pointed out, your entire kit hen is pitching back and forth in heavy seas.



Admittedly, these things are not on the steam line on a regular basis, but they are not unheard of either.  I've seen all sorts of things turn up at mess dinners.  Sometimes the cooks will also go out of their way to find special things and bring them into the most unlikely places.  The cooks who are innovative and clever will find themselves progressing quickly and VERY popular.  I remember being at sea one time when the Captain just HAD to have crème brulé.  This was a challenge considering we didn't have any cream on board.  Luckily the helicopter came in handy that day and fresh cream was procured and delivered!  Before anyone gets too out of shape, the helicopter was going ashore for other (really important and fully justifiable) reasons.  I just happened to take advantage of the opportunity.  No additional tax dollars were killed or injured in the making of this dessert! ;D

I would not worry about your skills going to waste.  You will get a chance to strut your stuff, but you'll also find that your skills will be much more appreciated.


----------



## JackThompson

Good day,

Looking for opinions/info/thoughts on the subject.

I understand that it varies from course to course, but i would like to hear on average what to expect.

For example reveille, to lights out, leave pass, training etc.

Thanks for the insight.


----------



## JackThompson

Also, another thing to add:

I'm aware that all barracks are different. With that said, from what you know, how does the internet work?


----------



## Occam

JackThompson said:
			
		

> Also, another thing to add:
> 
> I'm aware that all barracks are different. With that said, from what you know, how does the internet work?



Well, in the beginning, there were ones and zeroes, two tin cans, and a really long wire....

Oh, you mean how does internet work in the barracks.  If it's like any other base, you have the option of having it installed in your room, or using a rocket stick.

Have you searched for everything else you wanted to know?  Like this...


----------



## JackThompson

Occam said:
			
		

> _*Well, in the beginning, there were ones and zeroes, two tin cans, and a really long wire....*_
> 
> Oh, you mean how does internet work in the barracks.  If it's like any other base, you have the option of having it installed in your room, or using a rocket stick.
> 
> Have you searched for everything else you wanted to know?  Like this...



Cheeky, but very clever.  ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for the link. I have used the search bar, which seems to be incredibly common for people to NOT use it. Unfortunately, the information i seek doesn't seem existant after a few pages unless i missed something which is entirely possible.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Your course likely won't be much (any) different than anyone elses or any other trades. You'll be subject to the same restrictions, inspections and schedules to most extent. If and when you start training in the kitchens, you'll likely become subject to shift schedules, I'm guessing.


----------



## JackThompson

I hear that CFSAL-Cook is rather extreme with inspections...but i also heard that it was not the Cook course, and more the Supp Tech course. Is anyone aware if which might be more accurate than the other?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

It'll make no difference either way. If it's your course you'll have to do it. Quit sweating this stuff.


----------



## mymusichaus

Hello everyone!

I am going to write my story which eventually leads to questions, so please bare with me .... 

If you are reading this, thank-you for doing so. For a lengthy amount of time I have been considering joining the military but in the past there were variables that did not allow me to proceed. As a woman, I finally "grew a pair" and decided that this was the career that I wanted. My fiancee is very supportive of me doing this, as others relationships in the past were not. In December of 2010 I completed my application but wasn't 100% sure on what trade I wanted to be in. I put down Sig Ops, Lineman and Acis. I wrote my CFAT (which is an outstanding tool  by the way) and qualified for a bunch of tech trades, cook and steward. There are only a few trades that I wanted to go into as my finacee is NCM Sig Ops and is currently posted  to Petawawa (but who knows where he will end up ) and I am living in Trenton. I am aware that for his trade it is a high demand but there are only so many places he can be posted to do his line of work. It is very important for me to be near him or with him aswell as doing my own thing in the military... thus leaving not many options career wise. He suggested that I do Cook because I am very good at math, being apart of a team and I am wonderful and bossing him around in the kitchen. He told me that as a Cook you can move up in Rank quicker if you prove yourself which could lead to running a kitchen  (  eventually ). I thought this was maybe too stereotypical but after doing research on it I found it to be very interesting. I don't really enjoy tech stuff, so it wouldn't make sense to advance in it just because I qualify. So I changed my choice to Cook. This was in January 2011. They told me that the trade was not open at that time so to call back in March/April when the new Fiscal year starts. Well here it is March.... and I am getting antsy  I have horrible patience when I am excited about a job. The recruiting office informed me that they are expecting it to open in April.... 

and FINALLY here are my questions .........  dun dun dun dah

1. How long does it take the recruiting centre to book a medical and interview
2. Other than knowledge of my trade what else should I be prepared for with the interview and medical?
3. If I doing very well on my interview and pass my medical, how long does it take to hear for a job offer?
4. Are there a lot of people who apply for cook? I know its at the bottom of the list when you get your results from your CFAT, but to be honest I dont think that a job is any better because of how high it is on a list....
5. Because Cook is a purple trade, is it easier to post them as a service couple?

I call them every week to see if the trade has opened up... I dont know if I can do much more than that... When I want something, I make sure I do everything I can to get it...
However....

6. Any other suggestions?



Merci 
Sarah


----------



## jwtg

mymusichaus said:
			
		

> .... As a woman, I finally "grew a pair" ...



Probably mention that during the medical... 



			
				mymusichaus said:
			
		

> 2. Other than knowledge of my trade what else should I be prepared for with the interview and medical?



Definitely knowledge of your trade (like you have indicated) as well as experience and skills you have that may be relevant to your trade of choice, or the CF as a whole.  The usual- your strengths and abilities, your concept of what a career in the military is like, anything to make you markettable.  Someone once had a link to a pretty good self-questionnaire for preparing for the interview.  I'm at work, so I don't have time to track it down for you- hopefully someone else will link it for you.


----------



## infantryian

mymusichaus said:
			
		

> 1. How long does it take the recruiting centre to book a medical and interview
> 3. If I doing very well on my interview and pass my medical, how long does it take to hear for a job offer?



     Unfortunately the timing is a bit unique and out of your control. It could happen quickly, it could take a long time. The fewer issues that require paperwork (living in another country for a time, medical history that requires documentation, etc.) the quicker things will progress.



			
				mymusichaus said:
			
		

> 2. Other than knowledge of my trade what else should I be prepared for with the interview and medical?


     While I am not in any position of authority, the tone and calibre of your writing leads me to believe that you will be fine for an interview. Mine was the easiest job interview I have had and I imagine that not many well educated, articulate, and dedicated applicants have too much trouble with the interview.
     As for the medical, there wasn't too much to be prepared. It was more or less a doctor's exam where your blood pressure was taken in addition to vision and hearing tests. As well a medical and drug history.


----------



## Journeyman

Sapperian said:
			
		

> I imagine that not many well educated, articulate, and dedicated applicants have too much trouble with the interview.


Ah-ha! 
I _knew_ there was something...different...about the original post, but I just couldn't figure it out. The poster is articulate!!

What a refreshing change.


----------



## mymusichaus

jwtg: Thanks for the helpful information. It is very much appreciated. Should the forces be concerned about the extra buldge my ego has grown? Hehe... seriously just kidding  I do not have anything to be concerned about health wise. From a secret source I heard you had to do some sort of duck walk during the medical.... this sounds very entertaining to be quite honest and I look forward to taking part in such activities....  ;D  Does the military do most of their hiring at the beginning of the fiscal year? Or is it spread out? I can imagine I am asking a question that not even a monkey would have the knowledge for... I am crossing my fingers that I have picked the perfect timing 

Sapperian: Iv'e heard that when you are waiting for something life changing, it's best to keep busy while you wait. I am not used to having to do so, this is teaching me patience  What job did you apply for? Are you still in that trade? I hope that having the passion and dedication that I already have for the military will benefit me with the interview. Or perhaps they will be just so impressed with my ducky walk that they will be thrilled to have me serve their country.... ;D ;D

Another question to anyone who can answer or wants to share their 2 cents....(you can share as many cents as you wish)

If anyone passes their medical and does great with their interview, does everyone get a job offer ...eventually....even if not today or tomorrow but long as a year?


----------



## Journeyman

mymusichaus said:
			
		

> the extra buldge bulge my ego has grown?
> Iv'e I've heard ....


OK, _somewhat_ more articulate than most  ;D


----------



## mymusichaus

Journeyman: Do you work for the military? If so, what is it that you do? Do you have any related information to cooks.... other than they cook food 
Thank-you for correcting my spelling. I will confess that the mistake was my own however I may have abused spell check a few times in the past.


----------



## Journeyman

mymusichaus said:
			
		

> Journeyman: Do you work for the military?


Click on the person's name, in orange, and you go to that person's Profile; you will see that I'm in the Infantry.

All I know about cooks is that they can be good....or bad....for morale. Best of luck.


----------



## mymusichaus

Oh look at that.... there is spell check... right under my text box...  :-[   no excuses now 

Thanks Journeyman...


----------



## mymusichaus

Does anyone know if a lot of people apply for cook?


----------



## Danny_C

I went to my CFRC today to check on my application. While I was sitting there I heard four people ask about the cook trade. This was over a 35 minute period.

This information shouldn’t matter. Do your best and make your application stand out. You seem like a bright individual so that’s a step in the right direction.


----------



## mymusichaus

Thanks Dan! What are you applying for?


----------



## q_1966

Depends on your instructor, but it was not ridiculous like BMQ, You will be issued only three sets of cooks whites, (one you wear & one set ready in your locker for inspection) for which is not a biggie except at the end of the day when your all fighting for like one or two washers. Make it a habit to check your pockets for markers etc.

Do order an extra pair of parade boots before your course (So you dont screw up your nice boots from boot camp as you are expected to wear those in the kitchen, once you get posted you will wear a Steel toe boots or re-inforced toe combat boots (the Gortex style re-enforced boot) until then PIA

You will march every morning to CFSAL FS&S bldg. In Cadpat or NCD's 
Change into whites have an inspection, they are looking for clean pressed whites (dont worry if there not 100% because it is impossible after a certain amount of use and bleach (and the staff should understand this), clean fingernails, silly paper wedge and name tag that hangs on centre top button, polished boots, haircuts, second set of whites (Pants/Shirt/Apron) hanging on hanger that you hold out for inspection.

After inspection hang 2nd set back in locker (expect to change if you get the set your wearing to dirty)

Small Quantity Cooking in units similar to high school cooking (you have your own Stove, knives, mixing bowls etc 
(they show you, you make it) as well as theory mixed in.

Large Quantity will have like 5 or so students (under supervision of an instructor) in Salads, Bakeshop, Mains, Sauces and soups etc, also do time in pots, front of house (a week in each department)

Field Phase in Cadpat or NCD (Stores might of issued Cadpat to Navy pers for that)
When I did it was a week, done in a parking lot during the winter) learn about how too set up, tear down field kitchen, Imersion heater, Gasoline powered stove that looks like it was leftover from Korea

Taking turns serving the steam line, running things as you would a real kitchen, feeding Staff, Visitors, yourselves QL5 students and Stewards

All shifts are about 8hrs, sometimes more
Small quantity 7am - 4pm I think (Breakfast eaten at mess hall before class)
and Large Quantity and Field phase is alternating shifts (so a E-shift and L-shift) Early Shift 5am-2pm Late shift 10am to 7pm or so
but if your late shift you will usually have to get up for PT as a course at 8am or inspections etc

There are differences between other bases 
allowed an internet connection/laptop in room!
allowed alcohol in our shacks fridge at the time! remember its a privilege that can get taken away
Some course members were allowed to stay in PMQ's if they had family (not sure the details on that) but my friend going through SQ in Wainwright I'm pretty sure was not allowed those conveniences.
No revile, except your buddy's might throw a pillow at you, no lights out like there is at boot camp, just get a good decent amount of sleep and work as a team.

It was 2006 when I did mine so things have most likely have changed and I was only guessing at what the timings were, been too long ago

they also ran military courses out of Georgian college for awhile as well.

also worth checking out 
http://members.shaw.ca/cfcooks/ and http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2384782821&ref=ts 

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97860/post-996531.html#msg996531


----------



## kawa11

kinda bumping up an old one here.. well, not as old as that> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23331.0

I have my papers, about 10years of experience in the industry - including military kitchens.

Does this mean I will be able to "apply the experience to the [Cook] QL3 training" and just do BMQ/SQ?
Once I leave for Borden, which is within an hours drive of my home, will I be stuck on base during the weekdays  for 3 months (similar to St.Jean) or will I be allowed to travel back and forth so I can see my family?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

kawa11 said:
			
		

> kinda bumping up an old one here.. well, not as old as that> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23331.0
> 
> I have my papers, about 10years of experience in the industry - including military kitchens.
> 
> Does this mean I will be able to "apply the experience to the [Cook] QL3 training" and just do BMQ/SQ?
> Once I leave for Borden, which is within an hours drive of my home, will I be stuck on base during the weekdays  for 3 months (similar to St.Jean) or will I be allowed to travel back and forth so I can see my family?



The people to talk to about this are the people at the Recruiting Centre. They are the ones that will look at your civilian qualifications and work the system to see where you fit in and what courses, or parts of courses, you'll be required to complete.

When you'll be allowed off base will be up to your particular course cadre.


----------



## LoneSoldier

Hi everyone. I am considering enrolling back in the military as a cook. I was in reserves for about a year in an infantry trade, however decided to quit for some stupid reasons that I now regret. I have a few month to finish my Chef Training program. Can anyone give an advise on what I should do? I feel like a lost pup not really knowing what the hell I should do..


----------



## Jaydub

Are you thinking Regular or Reserve?

If you want to be a Chef, joining as a Cook would be a good option because of the practical hands-on training you would receive.  I've also been told, by a CF Cook, that your experience in the Forces would count towards your Red Seal Certification.  Perhaps another Cook on this site could elaborate.

Your best bet is to talk to a recruiter or check the site.
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/cook-80

Good luck.


----------



## kawa11

Jaydub said:
			
		

> Are you thinking Regular or Reserve?
> 
> If you want to be a Chef, joining as a Cook would be a good option because of the practical hands-on training you would receive.  I've also been told, by a CF Cook,* that your experience in the Forces would count towards your Red Seal Certification*.  Perhaps another Cook on this site could elaborate.


Collected my hours in a military kitchen [as civilian]. The Red Seal hours are based upon f/t work over 2.5 years (5280hr / 40hr-wk = 2.5)
In a military kitchen I was able to collect those hours in half the time!

My favorite part of the experience: When someone says, "how are you will stress?" or "..our kitchen here is pretty busy - up to 200 covers a night [dinner]" I can't help but laugh.
I remember Fridays being steak night. Try cooking for 2500-3500 every 6hrs!


----------



## CFR FCS

Start your application NOW. It will take sometime to get your Prior Learning Assesment done. You can apply unskilled now and once your chefs course is done you MIGHT be upgraded to semi skilled. You can be selected as unskilled and go to BMQ without your semi skilled status confirmed. That puts you through BMQ and your PLAR will settle out hopefully before you start your occupational training.


----------



## LoneSoldier

Thank you everyone for information. Just a few more questions..how many days a week does a cook work in regular and in reserve? 
Are you required to work wherever and whenever asked? Is the work very stressful?


----------



## Neill McKay

LoneSoldier said:
			
		

> Thank you everyone for information. Just a few more questions..how many days a week does a cook work in regular and in reserve?
> Are you required to work wherever and whenever asked? Is the work very stressful?



I'm not a cook, but I'll offer some general answers for now.

If you're working on a base you'll work something like a normal work week -- with shifts as necessary to cover the kitchen's hours (breakfast starts early so the cooks are at work before what you'd think of as normal working hours in the civilian world, for example).  If you're at sea in a ship you should plan on working every day.

In the regular force, you will work wherever and whenever you are told, doing whatever kind of work you are told (which may from time to time include work that has little or nothing to do with your trade).  In the reserve force you'll attend regular, part-time training with your unit and may have the opportunity to apply for periods of full-time work, but would not normally be required to do that.


----------



## Pusser

Keep in mind that although military cooks can work in some pretty whacked-out places and times, we are cognizant of the fact that you need to have time off and get some sleep.  If you start the early shift, for example, you will likely get off early and vice versa.  Even at sea, you will have a chance to sit down and relax from time to time.  By and large, military cooks generally work better hours than their civilian counterparts and the environment, although demanding, is less stressful than in some restaurant kitchens (if Gordon Ramsey is an example of a typical kitchen).


----------



## sjeadie

Hi there,
I have reviewed all the jobs available with the Canadian Forces and I honestly feel like I would do well as a cook. I hear a lot of people feel like this is a lower class job for people who dont do well on the CFAT however, this is about enjoyment in my career. I have also heard that cooks work from 6 am to 9 pm at night. Does anyone know if this is true? Any other information is welcomed 

Thanks,
Sarah


----------



## MikeL

Cooks can work earlier then 6am.  But you won't have the same people working a 15 hour day,  it would be broken up into shifts.  I'm sure someone that is a cook or knows more about their employment can enlighten you with more info.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

'lower class job"??  We loved our unit cooks way back when...........


----------



## dapaterson

Like any job in the military, you start out as a cook learning basic skills.  As you progress, you'll get more into planning menus, purchasing supplies, and supervision of junior cooks - including giving the same lectures and one-way conversations that you received when you were young (and promised that you'd be different).


----------



## MasterInstructor

Cooks are well respected and one of the hardest working trades in the navy. They do work in shifts onboard some guys early for breakfast and some guys late for dinner etc. in my opinion they do work much harder than some of the other trades onboard.

There are some amazing cooks and terrible cooks. If you are an amazing one, nobody sees you as lower class at all!


----------



## sjeadie

Thanks everyone for your comments! I absolutely love cooking so I know I would enjoy this......however I forgot to mention that last spring I did my cfat, passed with flying colours, did my medical and was supposed to go in for my interview but instead was told that even though I have my highschool diploma, I did not have grade 12 math so I couldn't finish the process. I was devistated. Is this still true?


----------



## aesop081

sjeadie said:
			
		

> Is this still true?



The requirements have not changed.


----------



## MikeL

Grade 12 math may be required for some trades,  but it isn't required for all trades.

When you applied before was it for cook,  or another trade?


----------



## HornbloHwer

Single most important people on board ship after the triad. Morale depends a lot on the quality of the food on board. Cooks should feel they are important and that their job is a gratifying one for sure.


----------



## Sadukar09

sjeadie said:
			
		

> I hear a lot of people feel like this is a lower class job for people who dont do well on the CFAT however
> Sarah


You hear wrong I'm afraid.

...If Connaught Ranges ever gets invaded, I'm going to rescue the cooks before anyone.

 ;D



			
				Hornblower said:
			
		

> Single most important people on board ship after the triad. Morale depends a lot on the quality of the food on board. Cooks should feel they are important and that their job is a gratifying one for sure.


Agreed. Every time on BMQ our platoon gets in ****, we always know the mess makes up for everything.


----------



## Dkeh

I was fortunate enough to work with a retired Army cook, Civvy side. He was doing the job of 3 people in the kitchen, with more accuracy, precision, and flair than anyone else. What a great guy to work with!


----------



## q_1966

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> Depends on your instructor, but it was not ridiculous like BMQ, You will be issued only three sets of cooks whites, (one you wear & one set ready in your locker for inspection) for which is not a biggie except at the end of the day when your all fighting for like one or two washers. Make it a habit to check your pockets for markers etc.
> 
> Do order an extra pair of parade boots before your course (So you dont screw up your nice boots from boot camp as you are expected to wear those in the kitchen, once you get posted you will wear a Steel toe boots or re-inforced toe combat boots (the Gortex style re-enforced boot) until then PIA
> 
> You will march every morning to CFSAL FS&S bldg. In Cadpat or NCD's
> Change into whites have an inspection, they are looking for clean pressed whites (dont worry if there not 100% because it is impossible after a certain amount of use and bleach (and the staff should understand this), clean fingernails, silly paper wedge and name tag that hangs on centre top button, polished boots, haircuts, second set of whites (Pants/Shirt/Apron) hanging on hanger that you hold out for inspection.
> 
> After inspection hang 2nd set back in locker (expect to change if you get the set your wearing to dirty)
> 
> Small Quantity Cooking in units similar to high school cooking (you have your own Stove, knives, mixing bowls etc
> (they show you, you make it) as well as theory mixed in.
> 
> Large Quantity will have like 5 or so students (under supervision of an instructor) in Salads, Bakeshop, Mains, Sauces and soups etc, also do time in pots, front of house (a week in each department)
> 
> Field Phase in Cadpat or NCD (Stores might of issued Cadpat to Navy pers for that)
> When I did it was a week, done in a parking lot during the winter) learn about how too set up, tear down field kitchen, Imersion heater, Gasoline powered stove that looks like it was leftover from Korea
> 
> Taking turns serving the steam line, running things as you would a real kitchen, feeding Staff, Visitors, yourselves QL5 students and Stewards
> 
> All shifts are about 8hrs, sometimes more
> Small quantity 7am - 4pm I think (Breakfast eaten at mess hall before class)
> and Large Quantity and Field phase is alternating shifts (so a E-shift and L-shift) Early Shift 5am-2pm Late shift 10am to 7pm or so
> but if your late shift you will usually have to get up for PT as a course at 8am or inspections etc
> 
> There are differences between other bases
> allowed an internet connection/laptop in room!
> allowed alcohol in our shacks fridge at the time! remember its a privilege that can get taken away
> Some course members were allowed to stay in PMQ's if they had family (not sure the details on that) but my friend going through SQ in Wainwright I'm pretty sure was not allowed those conveniences.
> No revile, except your buddy's might throw a pillow at you, no lights out like there is at boot camp, just get a good decent amount of sleep and work as a team.
> 
> It was 2006 when I did mine so things have most likely have changed and I was only guessing at what the timings were, been too long ago
> 
> they also ran military courses out of Georgian college for awhile as well.
> 
> also worth checking out
> http://members.shaw.ca/cfcooks/ and http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2384782821&ref=ts
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97860/post-996531.html#msg996531


Above quote from: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98859/post-1030547.html#msg1030547

More threads
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103898/post-1106232.html#msg1106232

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/96822/post-1131732.html#msg1131732


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

Gaara said:
			
		

> Hey. Yeah there is other trades.I got sucky vision to and they told me I can be a cook, medic, or a clerk.
> [/quote
> 
> Are those  the only trades you qualified for?


----------



## PMedMoe

You replied to an eight year old post, from a person who hasn't been active since May 2006....

.....just sayin'......


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I guess after 2 years of someone waiting to reply to his post...he gave up.   :blotto:


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> You replied to an eight year old post, from a person who hasn't been active since May 2006....
> 
> .....just sayin'......


My apologies, didn't read the date  :


----------



## A Cooks Wife

My husband is currently at BMQ training half done!  What I would like to know is what/where he will do/go after BMQ?

He is a Reg Force private (recruit), semi-skilled cook.  We know he has to do a portion of the cook's training but no idea when, how much, and where that might be.

Any help?


----------



## mariomike

A Cooks Wife said:
			
		

> My husband is currently at BMQ training half done!  What I would like to know is what/where he will do/go after BMQ?
> He is a Reg Force private (recruit), semi-skilled cook.  We know he has to do a portion of the cook's training but no idea when, how much, and where that might be.
> Any help?



You may find some helpful information in these discussions. 

"CF Cooks - general (merged)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13758.0
5 pages

"RegF Cook QL3 info":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98859.0

"Cook": ( no period )
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89436.0

"Cook."    ( with a period ):
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23331.0

"Army bases & cook trade...":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80881.0

"CF Cooks Web Site":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28209.0/nowap.html


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I'll hazard a _guess_ he will go to CFB Borden, just outside Barrie, ON.

Canadian Forces Logistics Training Centre (CFLTC)  (formerly known as CF School of Administration and Logistics, so you may hear it referred to as *CFSAL* too)

This is not recent information so take that into consideration, but a few years ago my buddy's wife went thru the Cook QL3 trg.  Some people attended the trg on the base and some went to a college in the local area.  Those who went to the college side walked away with a sweet deal (IMO) as they got a college certificate along with their QL3.  Just info, I have no idea if they are still outsourcing some of the trg to colleges.

Now, before I say this next stuff, I'll put the disclaimer out that I am not a Cook, I don't work at CFLTC, but this is likely scenario of what might happen.  Ok?

- once he completes BMQ, he will go from St-Jean to Borden.  It is 99.9% certain that, at this time, you won't be able to join him.  

- once he arrives at CFLTC, he will be put on a Personnel Awaiting Training organization (PAT).  The staff at CFLTC will then let him know (1) what part of the training he is being granted and what he must complete and (2) when that training will start.

- if there is a significant time between his arrival and commencement of training, he will be employed somewhere doing something.  Being semi-skilled, I would be hopeful it is at a kitchen facility where he can continue skill development and enhancement.

- if it is NOT at a kitchen, well there are other jobs that need to get done to support the trg that takes place at Borden.  He could find himself doing any manner of things like Range Sentry, etc.  If he does, the best thing he can do is approach it all with a positive attitude and do the best he can.  The folks he works for will pass on comments on his performance and attitude.  Despite how it may seem and feel to people new to the CF, doing these things we refer to as "GDs" (General Duties) are not punishment, they are just things that need to get done in the day to day operations of the CF.  

Hope this helps some.


----------



## nmelliott

I am applying for Cook, my husband has been in for over 10 years and now I want to join as well.
Where is the cook training held, is it always Borden. T have 3 kids to prepare providing I get accepted lol


----------



## MikeL

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/cook-80#training-2


> BASIC OCCUPATIONAL QUALIFICATION TRAINING
> Cooks attend an 18-week training course at the Canadian Forces School of Administration and Logistics in Borden, Ontario. Based on a combination of theory, demonstration and hands-on experience, Cooks will learn the following basic skills:
> 
> Cooking terminology, weights and measures
> Conversions and equivalencies
> Introductory baking and meat cutting
> Small and large quantity cooking of a full range of products
> Field cooking
> Food safety practices and techniques
> Food service standards and basic food cost controls
> Fire and safety precautions
> Equipment & facility maintenance


----------



## seawolf

Hey my GF is in her grad week at BMQ, and just got her posting message.

She is a cook and through her PLAR got given her QL5's and promotion to Corporal.

Her posting says she is posted to organization 1702 2CMBG HQ & Sig Sqn. Her clerk mentioned briefly that she was going to be attached to 2 Combat Engineers. But it doesn't say anything other then the above on her posting message.

Does that make sense? Are cooks assigned directly to operational units, not just to the base?

She's going to ask some more questions tomorrow, but she asked me to post here as well for her.

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## OldSolduer

seawolf said:
			
		

> Hey my GF is in her grad week at BMQ, and just got her posting message.
> 
> She is a cook and through her PLAR got given her QL5's and promotion to Corporal.
> 
> Her posting says she is posted to organization 1702 2CMBG HQ & Sig Sqn. Her clerk mentioned briefly that she was going to be attached to 2 Combat Engineers. But it doesn't say anything other then the above on her posting message.
> 
> Does that make sense? Are cooks assigned directly to operational units, not just to the base?
> 
> She's going to ask some more questions tomorrow, but she asked me to post here as well for her.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



Yes cooks are posted to operational units.


----------



## 423tk

I would like to know what life would really be like as a army cook please and thanks.


----------



## marinemech

Have you Bothered looking at the information on the Forces.ca website. It may offer a lot of the information you are seeking. Cause cooks tend to set the morale of the Base, FOB, the ship, unhappy cook will lead to a unhappy crew


----------



## brookus22

I'm looking for any info on day to day life as a cook in the Air Force while on base. What are the hours like? Shift work? Weekends?  Also what is the general opinion of the bases? Borden, Comox, Kingston, Gander, Cold Lake? What do people like or dislike about each base?


----------



## George Wallace

brookus22 said:
			
		

> I'm looking for any info on day to day life as a cook in the Air Force while on base. What are the hours like? Shift work? Weekends?  Also what is the general opinion of the bases? Borden, Comox, Kingston, Gander, Cold Lake? What do people like or dislike about each base?



http://army.ca/forums/threads/98859.0

http://army.ca/forums/threads/80881.0

http://army.ca/forums/threads/109236.0


----------



## JoeDos

Just a quick question, I know cook now requires math 12 and I plan to be going to night school to upgrade my math from 11 to 12, but I was wondering is there a specific math 12 I need? Or can I do math 12 foundations and still be accepted?


----------



## DAA

AlphaBravo said:
			
		

> Just a quick question, I know cook now requires math 12 and I plan to be going to night school to upgrade my math from 11 to 12, but I was wondering is there a specific math 12 I need? Or can I do math 12 foundations and still be accepted?



As of "today" the *bare minimum * requirements for Cook are "now"...........

"Gr 11 high school or secondary V in Quebec or equivalent secondary school education, including Gr 11 general (workplace) math or math 514 in Quebec"

This is a recent change to the entry standards for Cook, so you may need to consult with your CFRC if you had previously been told you did not qualify due to the previous math requirements.


----------



## runormal

Edit:

I saw DAA's post as I was posting what I had written, I just want you to seriously consider getting your grade 12 math out the way beforehand. I dropped calculus in grade 12 in high school and had to retake it at university. I almost failed the course (Got a D, course average was slightly higher than a D) which would of kicked me out of my program. Just some food for thought.


Not being from BC, I googled your curriculum. 

http://www.sd43.bc.ca/secondary/heritagewoods/StaffInfo/departments/Mathematics/Documents/New%20Math%20Curriculum%20FAQs.pdf

Please advise if this  correct.







I found this question in the FAQ.

"Can students switch pathways? 
• Yes, however, the recommended course sequence is show on the diagram above 
and students are encouraged to follow the sequence as much as possible due to the 
sequential nature of mathematics. 
• There are no prerequisites in BC and students may wish to take a sequence not 
indicated on the diagram. If this is the case the decision should be made only after 
the student, parents, teacher and principal have thoroughly discussed the options. "

I am not going to speculate on whether you can or not "get by" with foundations 12 because I am not a recruiter. 

My question is why not go for a higher standard? Lets _say_ Foundations 12 is enough, I can guarantee there will be people applying with pre calculus or calculus or even university/college math credits. From an education standard they are now more competitive than you. 

What if the forces doesn't work out? What if you want to go to university/college? What if your not competitive enough and have to wait another year? 

I don't know which course you took in grade 11, but I would agree with following that tree. If you took Foundations 11 take Foundations 12 for now (assuming it meets the standard) but if you took pre calc 11 take pre calc 12.  If you only took Foundations 11 in high school please consider taking pre calc 11/12 it is never going to hurt to have math credits.

Good luck.


----------



## JoeDos

DAA said:
			
		

> As of "today" the *bare minimum * requirements for Cook are "now"...........
> 
> "Gr 11 high school or secondary V in Quebec or equivalent secondary school education, including Gr 11 general (workplace) math or math 514 in Quebec"
> 
> This is a recent change to the entry standards for Cook, so you may need to consult with your CFRC if you had previously been told you did not qualify due to the previous math requirements.


Are you serious!?!?! If so my recruiting center is getting a phone call, I was told I didn't meet the requirements because of my math 11


----------



## DAA

AlphaBravo said:
			
		

> Are you serious!?!?! If so my recruiting center is getting a phone call, I was told I didn't meet the requirements because of my math 11



As I previously mentioned, the entry standards for CooK recently changed.  It looks as though the level of Math that was previously required, has been slightly lowered, while the minimum Gr 10 has been increased to Gr 11.


----------



## JoeDos

DAA said:
			
		

> As I previously mentioned, the entry standards for CooK recently changed.  It looks as though the level of Math that was previously required, has been slightly lowered, while the minimum Gr 10 has been increased to Gr 11.



Odd because when I last contacted (month or two back) they said I didn't meet the requirements because I didn't have math 12. I have my Grade 12 everything besides math, I will give them a call now (AKA when they open). I assume they only changed it because they are needing people.


----------



## dapaterson

AlphaBravo said:
			
		

> I assume they only changed it because they are needing people.



Incorrect. Occupational standards undergo regular review to ensure that they are still relevant; as they are reviewed, the entry standards may be changed as well.


----------



## JoeDos

I was just wondering where the average posting for an Army/Air Force cook would be? I know that cook is a purple trade so I do get to choose an option although I may not get it, but mainly I am looking for an Air Force position.


----------



## kev994

The mess


----------



## Zulopol

AlphaBravo said:
			
		

> I was just wondering where the average posting for an Army/Air Force cook would be?



You forgot Navy ?


----------



## JoeDos

Zulopol said:
			
		

> You forgot Navy ?



Haha I left it out for the fact that I cannot decide upon Army, or Air Force. Navy is kind of off my list haha.


----------



## cook1

As a cook you'll go where your needed. Your a "purple trade" There is a priority list that gets filled ie. operational units first, then bases.


----------



## Zulopol

I personally think that If you decided to join the Regular Forces you are ready to accept the fact you could be based everywhere so that being set in mind you will not freak out xD

You could cook in a submarine.


----------



## JoeDos

Haha honestly I want to be based everywhere, new places, new faces. I am fairly excited, and hope to get in soon.


----------



## Zulopol

I find myself lucky because I feel like my application process have been quick. 
Good Luck !


----------



## leafssteen

I am interested in being a cook, I was was wondering what it is like and if any one was interested to share there thoughts or tips on being a cook in the Navy! Also what are the hours like as a cook? What is the training like, do they teach you from the very basics to more complexed meals? 

Thank you,

leafssteen


----------



## George Wallace

leafssteen said:
			
		

> I am interested in being a cook, I was was wondering what it is like and if any one was interested to share there thoughts or tips on being a cook in the Navy! Also what are the hours like as a cook? What is the training like, do they teach you from the very basics to more complexed meals?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> leafssteen



Here is an old post that has a useful link (Welcome to the Canadian Forces Cook's web site! ) to check out:



			
				Michael Greer said:
			
		

> Hello All,
> 
> The first ever web site for serving and retired Canadian Forces Cooks, MOC 861, or Cooks from the RCASC has been set up.   Yes, that's Regular, Reserve, or Allied Forces are welcome!   Over 80 Cooks have registered and 1600 visitors in the first 2 weeks.   Come check us out and look for old friends, or pass the word to those you feel will be interested.   Thanks in advance...   http://members.shaw.ca/cfcooks
> 
> Michael
> CF Cooks Web Site!


----------



## JoeDos

What are the absolute key things I should know for when I do get an interview? Forces.ca or the search feature doesn't have to much information besides the basic how long is training etc.


----------



## Stjohns

Good morning everyone,
Was just curious when the dates are for bmq this year (my trade is cook). Anyone know?I pass my background check (I have 3 citizenships)in January and still wating for my medical test and interview...Why it taking so long?I am in Montreal.
Thank you very much!


----------



## mariomike

Stjohns said:
			
		

> I pass my background check (I have 3 citizenships)in January and still wating for my medical test and interview...Why it taking so long?



SELECTION PROCESS ESTIMATE  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/118428.0.html
Reply #1.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman

Stjohns said:
			
		

> Good morning everyone,
> Was just curious when the dates are for bmq this year (my trade is cook). Anyone know?I pass my background check (I have 3 citizenships)in January and still wating for my medical test and interview...Why it taking so long?I am in Montreal.
> Thank you very much!



http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/recruit-school.page 

This website lists the dates when available


----------



## Stjohns

Hello ,I am applying from Montreal for a cook position ,my aptitude test was in September 2014 and my background check come back clean in January and I don't have any news when it is going to be my medical or interview..
I was just wondering if there's anyone out there in the same slow process? 
Thank you very much!
Have a wonderful day!


----------



## GreenWood

You will get familiar with the saying "Hurry up and wait" in the forces. 

A long waiting period is normal. Just do some searches on this site and you will see, it is the same for most of us.


----------



## Stjohns

Is it just me applying for a cook position from entire Canada?!Just can't wait to treat you with my famous pirogi !


----------



## CanadianJoe

Hi, currently undergoing recruiting process to be a cook in the forces.  I was reservist before, and a cook in the civilian side with culinary school and various restaurant experience.  My application is being fast tracked a bit because it would be direct entry to either SQ or NETP then on job training and cooks are currently in demand. I was asked if I would rather be a cook for the navy, or army. I know cook is purple trade so during my career if I wanted to switch branches I could do so.  

But I am wondering, how easy is it to go from lets say cooking on an army base, to getting a contract on a ship.  And, from experiences from other members, which branch do you think would be most enjoyable to work as a cook? I want to travel with the forces and have as many experiences as possible. thanks


----------



## mariomike

CanadianJoe said:
			
		

> But I am wondering, how easy is it to go from lets say cooking on an army base, to getting a contract on a ship.  And, from experiences from other members, which branch do you think would be most enjoyable to work as a cook?



This may help,

CF Cooks - general (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13758.0/nowap.html

Army bases & cook trade...  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/80881.0

COOK 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/98859.0

Cook.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23331.0

CF Cooks Web Site  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/28209.0

Army Cook in Afghanistan  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/60628.0/nowap.html

Culinary Navy Jobs- Cook  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/74051.0

Cook posted to Petawawa  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/109506.0

navy???
"My boyfriend is going for cook and i was wondering if there was anyone out there that could explain what the job intitles... "
http://army.ca/forums/threads/31249.0

See also,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+dispell+gay&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=l5C2Vca6JrDd8gex6oroBw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+cook


----------



## CountDC

CanadianJoe said:
			
		

> Hi, currently undergoing recruiting process to be a cook in the forces.  I was reservist before, and a cook in the civilian side with culinary school and various restaurant experience.  My application is being fast tracked a bit because it would be direct entry to either SQ or NETP then on job training and cooks are currently in demand. I was asked if I would rather be a cook for the navy, or army. *I know cook is purple trade so during my career if I wanted to switch branches I could do so*.
> 
> But I am wondering,* how easy is it to go from lets say cooking on an army base, to getting a contract on a ship*.  And, from experiences from other members, which branch do you think would be most enjoyable to work as a cook? I want to travel with the forces and have as many experiences as possible. thanks



Purple trade does not mean you can switch uniforms just because you want to.  It just means you are a support trade that can be sent to work with any element. Army Cooks can be sent to serve with the navy and navy sent to serve with the army.

You don't get contracts on a ship, you can get a posting and that will depend on your CM filling holes where needed.

From what I have seen I would recommend Navy (the uniforms are much nicer) and posted to a ship (the work did seem to be more relaxed).


----------



## Pusser

Perhaps I'm biased, but I look at the differences between the Army and the Navy this way:

In the Navy, you get regular hot meals (even if you do have to cook them yourself), regular hot showers, cutlery, crockery, clean sheets and proper beds (OK, so they move a bit).  In the Army, you have to dig that hole that your Career Manager needs to fill and then you get to sleep in it.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

I might be biased, like Pusser, but from what I've seen on shore bases and ships, I would say that the Navy cooks, onboard, get more opportunities to cook "from scratch", especially where baking is concerned (on bases most of the bread/bread product and cakes are simply ordered from commercial bakeries). Also, even though this will come into play later in your career only, all ship's cooks get to put in some cooking time regardless of rank, unlike bases where the sergeants and warrants get to spend much more time being managers of food services rather than cooks. So if you really like to cook, Navy's the way.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Learning to cook at sea is a challenge and requires different ways of doing things. You are also a big part of the morale of the ship, so a very important role. Being able to produce good food when the ship is rolling about is quite the talent.


----------



## Pusser

Just don't get seasick in the soup... ;D


----------



## geo

If you go in as a cook, you'll get to wear the colour of uniform for which there are openings.... But, once a cook, you will be posted - per the needs and requirements of the service.
Air /Navy may get posted to an army base or svc bn.
Army/Air may get posted to a ship.
Army / Navy may get posted to an air base.....
That's what happens with purple trades


----------



## Happy Guy

Pusser said:
			
		

> Perhaps I'm biased, but I look at the differences between the Army and the Navy this way:
> 
> In the Navy, you get regular hot meals (even if you do have to cook them yourself), regular hot showers, cutlery, crockery, clean sheets and proper beds (OK, so they move a bit).  In the Army, you have to dig that hole that your Career Manager needs to fill and then you get to sleep in it.


I am biased.  To refute my Naval colleague.  In the Army:
- you get regular hot showers in the garrison and the field.  Nobody in the field wants a cook with a personal hygiene problem.  I'm told that while at sea showering there are water restrictions.  You don't get to shower everyday and when you do there is a time limit.  While in the field if you decide to take a lengthy 5 minute shower no one minds.
- you do get cutlery in garrison.  In the field you get issued your very own knife, fork and spoon (KFS).  In the Navy you don't get issued your very own KFS. 
- you get clean sheets in garrison.  In the field you have your very own sleeping bag.  In the Navy you don't get issued a sleeping bag. 
- your beds don't move while in garrison or in the field.  At sea you have to strap yourself in the bunks because if you don't you might end up on the ceiling, bulkhead or deck.  
I might also add that the Navy has more orders of dress than the Army.  Who wants to wear whites and try to keep that thing clean and ironed all the time.  Plus they must wear bloody forage caps which may look nice until you wear one and then you'll wish you had been assigned the Army uniform.


----------



## dapaterson

One more:

In the Navy, most of the senior officers you work for are MARS oficers.  In the Army, most of the senior officers you work for are Infantry officers.

...ok, that one's a wash...


----------



## mariomike

Happy Guy said:
			
		

> I am biased.  To refute my Naval colleague.  In the Army:



Opinions vary,

Army or Navy? - A Merged Thread  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13535.0


----------



## dimsum

dapaterson said:
			
		

> One more:
> 
> In the Navy, most of the senior officers you work for are MARS oficers.  In the Army, most of the senior officers you work for are Infantry officers.
> 
> ...ok, that one's a wash...



 :rofl:


----------



## Train2Survive

They are hiring. But it says they want a high school diploma ( http://www.forces.ca/en/job/cook-80 ). Which is odd because they are far more responsible jobs that only require grade 10. I am currently a cook at 2 places in Vancouver, I am dedicated, hard working and my motivation has led me to go higher up into the company. My employers can advocate on my behalf. Is there any way I can still join with a grade 10? note I do have grade 11 and 12 credits.


----------



## Train2Survive

Hello I am currently a cook at 2 restaurants in Vancouver BC. So I have experience, dedication and motivation to succeed in this industry. http://www.forces.ca/en/job/cook-80 it says I need a high school diploma. Some colleges in Canada only require grade 10 for the culinary course. Why is it that I need a diploma to get in as a cook? I can handle bombs and weapons and deal with radar and engineering with only grade 10. Doesn't make much sense, anyway around this?


----------



## PuckChaser

Train2Survive said:
			
		

> Doesn't make much sense, anyway around this?



No, get your GED or pick another trade. Also, in this competitive market, you'll likely be at the bottom of a merit list with only Grade 10. You're also wanted in a US state and banned from traveling there. Sort that out before you apply.


----------



## Train2Survive

impossible to sort it out..I tried but I have to go back to the states which is an automatic 3 years in prison and a few months in jail.


----------



## PuckChaser

Train2Survive said:
			
		

> impossible to sort it out..I tried but I have to go back to the states which is an automatic 3 years in prison and a few months in jail.


Forget about the CAF then. Maybe you can keep being a fry cook with grade 10 as a career.


----------



## Pusser

Train2Survive said:
			
		

> impossible to sort it out..I tried but I have to go back to the states which is an automatic 3 years in prison and a few months in jail.



Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that you would never have to travel to the US as a CAF member.  We work a lot with the US Armed Forces and travelling there is almost inevitable.  Being a CAF member won't give you immunity if you're stopped at the border and your name shows up on the computer.

CAF members are not diplomats and we do not automatically receive diplomatic immunity in foreign countries.


----------



## JoeDos

I am a Naval Reservist I have an up to date AVREP, I have BMQ under my belt, 2 Modules of NETP under my belt, and have been parading as a OS BASIC since September. I know that most Boatswains that have open availability have been loaded onto their QL3 courses already, and I am very anxious to start mine, or to even get loaded onto mine. 

Does ANYONE know when the next QL3 courses for Cook start (I know likely won't be until the New Year), but I am going absolutely INSANE practically doing nothing at my unit.


----------



## PuckChaser

Man, that 2 month wait for your trade course must have been brutal.

When I was in the 'Mo, career course dates typically weren't known until after Christmas as the calendars for the next fiscal year weren't completed until late November, and loaded sometime in early February.


----------



## JoeDos

It's brutal when I want to make a career out of the FORCES, but I totally get what you're saying. Just being a bit impatient, I will keep waiting out. 

Also good to know about when the lists are usually available. 

Thanks.


----------



## MJP

There is only two serials (French & English split) left in this FY. Both are Reg F. There is nothing on the schedule for next FY yet.

Cook Reg F 11/Jan/17 25 May/17 Scheduled


----------



## AFHelper

For a Cook Trade, when do you get your aviator rank?
Is there a DOAD or QR&O to refer at?


----------



## AFHelper

If you completed QL3 Cook in Borden, are you entitled to get Pte/aviator rank?


----------



## TheSnake

For the Reserves how long is the trades course to become a cook? Does becoming a cook require you to take BMQ-Land, or is it optional for cooks in the reserves ?


----------



## dapaterson

All Army reservists do BMQ Land, though it may be done out of sequence.


----------



## TheSnake

dapaterson said:
			
		

> All Army reservists do BMQ Land, though it may be done out of sequence.


 Okay so I just understand what you are saying someone can take the trades course first Then take BMQ-Land?


aka BMQ first / Trades Course 2nd / BMQ-Land 3rd??????


just wanted to make sure if that's what you meant


----------



## dapaterson

Yes, that can be done if necessary (due to course scheduling).

Off the top of my head, the initial (QL3) cook course is about 3 months long; it's followed by an on the job training package that takes 4-6 months to complete (if doing it full-time).


----------



## TheSnake

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Yes, that can be done if necessary (due to course scheduling).
> 
> Off the top of my head, the initial (QL3) cook course is about 3 months long; it's followed by an on the job training package that takes 4-6 months to complete (if doing it full-time).


 what if I decided to do supply tech and do bmq-land after? same thing?


----------



## dapaterson

Yes. Sup Tech can also do out of sequence training.  Generally, though, units will press to get the training done in sequence.


----------



## TheSnake

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Yes. Sup Tech can also do out of sequence training.  Generally, though, units will press to get the training done in sequence.


 But if for some reason it's better because of civil side stuff to do trades course in the summer, and then do part time-bmq land later? That's okay?


----------



## Jimmygrigs

Hi everyone , 

Ill get right into it. Im looking into joining the forces in order to train and gain experience as cook.

I am bound by oath to my current employer for another 5 years but would love to slowly work at my dream of being a chef and would love idea of doing it through the military.

My question is , what is the culinary training like with our forces is it recognized ? Ive read on the forces website that proffesional training lasts for 16 weeks ? how is this compared to culinary schools in which training is a minimum of 12 months ?

My 2nd and most important question  , What does reserve cook do after professional training is done ? 

I would like to return to my civilian job to fufill my duties but I am completely unware of where and how I will get my experience as a military cook ?

Some insight or referrals would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## mariomike

Jimmygrigs said:
			
		

> My question is , what is the culinary training like with our forces is it recognized ?



Canadian Armed Forces Veterans & Reservists
https://www.collegeoftrades.ca/trade-assessment

See "Cook".



			
				Jimmygrigs said:
			
		

> What does reserve cook do after professional training is done ?



Question about Cooks in Reserve.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RuVOLP0581cJ:https://army.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D22719.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca


----------



## Jimmygrigs

The hardest part to my question that I can never seem to find info is the following

What does a cook do in the reserves after training ?

Am i obligated to perform my skill once a week or am do I just have my weekly reserve meetings ?

I find it hard to belive the forces would pay for my training have me never use it ?


----------



## Rifleman62

If your Svc Bn has a mobile kitchen and a qualified Sgt Cook (qualified, but possible at MCpl rank), then the kitchen could be set up on weekend to provide a meal to your unit and/or other units who are working that weekend. A Sgt Cook is required to order fresh rations and supervise.

The balance of the time would be utilized to get more experience on all aspects of the mobile kitchen to fill in the gaps from the short time spent on the eqpt on crse. Preventive maintenance incl.

Otherwise you will be doing the same soldier training that all trades in the Svc Bn are doing such as wpns training (indoor shooting simulator), refresher trg of all soldier skills, prep for FTX (Field Training Exercise), post FTX clean up, etc. Learning to drive a military veh, backing the kitchen trailer, positioning, etc. 

Others here will add info. DAP should be able to cfm if the first para is still current info.


----------



## garb811

Some of the newer armouries occupied by Svc Bns have industrial kitchens that are used in addition to the flying kitchens on parade nights and weekends.


----------



## Jimmygrigs

That's some really helpful info. Exactly what I was looking for

I would love to hear from anyone who was a cook , reserve or both.

I really want too feel comfortable in a life where I take my civilian job and reserve obligations seriously and have a better feel of what to expect from those obligations.


----------



## Blackadder1916

Jimmygrigs said:
			
		

> . . . My question is , what is the culinary training like with our forces is it recognized ? Ive read on the forces website that proffesional training lasts for 16 weeks ? how is this compared to culinary schools in which training is a minimum of 12 months ?
> 
> . . .



Don't compare cook training in the military to year long culinary schools that graduate individuals who may call themselves some variety of "chef" and whose expectation is that they will be fast tracking to positions of greater responsibility in higher end kitchens.  Instead, consider the military training to be inline with "apprentice" programs.  As an example, look at these two programs, both from the same institution, both dealing with food preparation, but widely different in program length and expectations.

Culinary skills (one year)
https://www.canadianfoodandwineinstitute.ca/cfwiprograms/culinary-skills/

Cook (Two 15-week sessions in conjunction with approximately three years of paid on-the-job training i.e. apprenticeship)
https://www.niagaracollege.ca/apprenticeships/explore/cook/

The link previously given you about recognition of military cook training stated the minimum trade level for Red Seal certification was "QL5".  This usually is further indicated to be "Regular Force" training and experience; generally a tradesman in the Reg Force will attain QL5 after 3 to 4 years in the CF (about the same time to meet eligibility for promotion to Cpl) and following completion of further courses and usually a specified OJT program.


----------



## TheSnake

-snip-


----------

