# Kingston Pen to close



## Retired AF Guy (19 Apr 2012)

Re-produced under the usual caveats of the Copyright Act.



> *Kingston Penitentiary opened in 1835 to close in budget cuts*
> 
> Conservatives to shut facility in Ontario, CBC News has learned
> 
> ...



 Article Link 

Toews is supposed to make the official announcement at 13:00 ET. It will be interesting to see what their time lines for closing the prison down are going to like.


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## PuckChaser (19 Apr 2012)

As unfortunate as it is to see KP close, it probably costs more than twice as much as a similar and newer max security prison to run. I hope they clean it up a bit and open parts up as a museum. A lot of history there.


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I hope they clean it up a bit and open parts up as a museum. A lot of history there.


The Corrections Museum is already right across the road; there's a lot of history there too.


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## Strike (19 Apr 2012)

They should move the stuff from the museum to KP (so much is not shown because they currently don't have the room) and refurbish the cells as offices.  I saw this at an old prison in Scotland and it was actially really nice.


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

I suspect, however, that it will get sold for relatively minor profit, with the land completely rebuilt for outrageously-priced condos....

...with a Starbucks, for Queen's west campus' students.


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## PuckChaser (19 Apr 2012)

I agree, Strike. Prison Museum is fantastic, and they could make it even better as a tourist attraction. Look at how many people go visit Alcatraz. KP doesn't have the same Hollywood wow, but its one of Canada's oldest prisons.

JM: I can see tons of people wanting it sold, but Kingston council has a huge history of blocking anything even remotely changing historic buildings. In this case I'll agree with them and hope they block any sale.


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## Retired AF Guy (19 Apr 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> JM: I can see tons of people wanting it sold, but Kingston council has a huge history of blocking anything even remotely changing historic buildings. In this case I'll agree with them and hope they block any sale.



Parts of the prison date back to 1835 so I'm pretty sure that would make it an heritage site.


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## Strike (19 Apr 2012)

Here we go:

http://www.oldtownjail.com/

Although some cells are open to the public, many of them were refurbished and the museum doubles as an office building.


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## OldSolduer (19 Apr 2012)

I toured KP and the prison museum in 2006. The museum is pretty good.

KP itself is a hell hole. I did get to see the range where some of the most violent offenders we have are housed. 

The cost of keeping it open due to its age is a factor for sure. It would be cheaper to close it and move the inmates to other pens.


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## medicineman (19 Apr 2012)

I guess the next question is - where do they move the "residents" to?

MM


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I guess the next question is - where do they move the "residents" to?


There's new, and already trashed, housing along the 401 between Division and Montreal. As a benefit, most of the inmates 'families' are already there.   >


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## medicineman (19 Apr 2012)

Woohoo - halfway houses, woops, rehabilitative housing.

MM


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## dapaterson (19 Apr 2012)

The goal is for the federal government to divest old, expensive properties.  not to move the portfolio from Corrections to Parks and keep spending money on it.

Of course, we could always repurpose the KP to replace some of the older cadet quarters at RMC...

 >


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

...leaving some of the security features/protocols in place for long-weekends.   ;D


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## blacktriangle (19 Apr 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I suspect, however, that it will get sold for relatively minor profit, with the land completely rebuilt for outrageously-priced condos....
> 
> ...with a Starbucks, for Queen's west campus' students.



Well obviously! My girlfriend isn't coming in unless she brings me a venti caramel apple spice...and I don't want her to go downtown because it will get cold. Then it's just $5 apple juice...

As for where I think some of the residents should go...  ;D 

Read between the lines!


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## Strike (19 Apr 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The goal is for the federal government to divest old, expensive properties.  not to move the portfolio from Corrections to Parks and keep spending money on it.
> 
> Of course, we could always repurpose the KP to* replace some of the older cadet quarters at RMC...*
> >



Pretty sure some of the cells are bigger than some of the rooms in the Stone Boat.  And I bet the sound doesn't travel nearly as bad as it did in Champlain and Haldiman when I was there.   ;D  We used to pass notes through the cracks between the top of the closets and the walls!


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## observor 69 (19 Apr 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I suspect, however, that it will get sold for relatively minor profit, with the land completely rebuilt for outrageously-priced condos....
> 
> ...with a Starbucks, for Queen's west campus' students.



Cause we all know that every Queen's student is rich....not.



"If you find that you are unable to provide healthy food for yourself and your family, there is assistance available. The Alma Mater Society (AMS) at Queen's runs a Food Bank which is open:

Wednesday
 5:30pm - 6:30pm

Saturday
 10:30am - 12:30pm

Sunday
 3:30pm - 4:30pm


They are located on 218 Earl Street, MacGillivray-Brown Hall. Enter through Barrie Street entrance and then turn immediately to your left.  All you need to do is present your student card. Your comfort and confidentiality is ensured. Non-perishable food items can be picked up FREE OF CHARGE. For more information, contact the Food Bank Co-ordinator at 613-533-6972.

The Partners in Mission Food Bank in Kingston will supply a week’s groceries to a family who really needs it. In order for you to receive such assistance, you must be referred from another agency, such as the QUIC. Please check with the International Student Advisor at the Queen's University International Centre, for more information."

http://quic.queensu.ca/incoming/food.asp

Just sayin'.


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## Stoker (19 Apr 2012)

The cells are pretty small


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## Strike (19 Apr 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> The cells are pretty small



It was tongue in cheek.   :

I knew someone would take that literally.


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## Stoker (19 Apr 2012)

If the Pen closes where is DND going to get their matresses from? ;D


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Cause we all know that every Queen's student is rich....not.


Well, thanks for that.    ???


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## Stoker (19 Apr 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> It was tongue in cheek.   :
> 
> I knew someone would take that literally.



I figured as much, but as I had some pics from my tour there, I might as well post them.


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> I figured as much, but as I had some pics from my tour there, I might as well post them.


Most people don't use military terminology, like "their tour" there.  I'm glad you're out on parole though.


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## Stoker (19 Apr 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Most people don't use military terminology, like "their tour" there.  I'm glad you're out on parole though.



I see what you mean,  its certainly an eye opener being in there if only for a guided tour. It scared the snot out of me.


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## medicineman (19 Apr 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> If the Pen closes where is DND going to get their matresses from? ;D



I'm sure Collin's Bay, Millhaven and Joyceville will pick up the slack...

MM


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## my72jeep (19 Apr 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I suspect, however, that it will get sold for relatively minor profit, with the land completely rebuilt for outrageously-priced condos....
> 
> ...with a Starbucks, for Queen's west campus' students.



Turn the Prison as it it into Condos, they be a big hit with former Liberls,Conrad Black,ect.


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## dapaterson (19 Apr 2012)

Or DND could offer a property swap: take the pen and use it to replace the Canadian Force College in Toronto.  That way, the academic centre of the CF would all be colocated in Kingston.

Plus, with 400 cells student rooms, they could double the throughput of CFC...


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## Retired AF Guy (19 Apr 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> I figured as much, but as I had some pics from my tour there, I might as well post them.



They let you take pictures?? Usually taking pictures inside a prison is a big no-no!


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## Retired AF Guy (19 Apr 2012)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I'm sure Collin's Bay, Millhaven and Joyceville will pick up the slack...
> 
> MM



Nope. K.P. is Maximum. C.B. and Joyceville are Medium. Can't send someone from maximum unit to a medium. Millhaven is a Max, it may be a to take a couple guys, but nothing more. Still leaves a few hundred inmates with no where to go.


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## Stoker (19 Apr 2012)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> They let you take pictures?? Usually taking pictures inside a prison is a big no-no!



As long as no staff was photographed no problem they told us.

Nice view from the tower


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## armyvern (19 Apr 2012)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Nope. K.P. is Maximum. C.B. and Joyceville are Medium. Can't send someone from maximum unit to a medium. Millhaven is a Max, it may be a to take a couple guys, but nothing more. Still leaves a few hundred inmates with no where to go.



He was talking about _*making*_ mattresses ... ...   ... now, sharing mattresses; that would be something!  ;D

On the housing issue ... I'd prefer if the taxpayer did not have to house some of these dudes past a few appeals. Sigh. 'Tis Canada.


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## Retired AF Guy (19 Apr 2012)

Re-produced under the usual provisions of the Copyright Act.



> *Federal prison closures blasted by union*
> 
> The federal government is closing two facilities in Kingston, Ont., and one in Laval, Que.
> By Meagan Fitzpatrick, CBC News Posted: Apr 19, 2012 10:39 AM ET Last Updated: Apr 19, 2012 6:10 PM ET
> ...



 Article Link


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## Strike (19 Apr 2012)

I always thought Collins Bay was max and Frontenac (attached) was medium.   ???


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## medicineman (19 Apr 2012)

I always thought Collins Bay was high medium, thought Millhaven was same (friend of mine was a screw there)...may have changed of course.

And yes, as Vern noted, I was talking about CorCan producing wares for use by the CF and DND...

MM


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## Retired AF Guy (19 Apr 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> I always thought Collins Bay was max and Frontenac (attached) was medium.   ???



Nope. C.B. is medium, however, they are in the process of building a max unit inside, but that won't be operational for a couple of years at best.  Frontenac is minimum.


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2012)

> Opposition critics joined the union, however, in criticizing the government's decision.


Wow. Who saw that coming.

Having several friends in the Corrections' business, it is way too soon to say where the various inmates will end up...let alone COs CSC wishes to retain but transfer.


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## Spartan (19 Apr 2012)

Anyone in the know care to let me know why double bunking is frowned upon?


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## OldSolduer (19 Apr 2012)

Spartan said:
			
		

> Anyone in the know care to let me know why double bunking is frowned upon?



Overcrowding in a prison is a concern. By double bunking you increase the number of inmates housed. As we know, too many people in too small an area for too long results in disaster. This is especially true for those of us amongst us who have a variety of "disorders" and are forced to live in tight quarters. Assaults, homosexual rape, protection rackets etc can all occur.


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## JPye (30 Apr 2012)

Used to work there, feeling bad for the loss of jobs in Kingston. 

Definitly wasn't the nicest environment to work in.


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