# Interested In speaking with former members of CAR 1987-1990



## Infoseeker (30 Dec 2012)

Hello, I'm looking to find information or speak with for CAR members who were in the CAR during 1987-1990 in regards to Somalia before the major incidents of the earl/mid 90's. Also for information about what CAR was Doug during that time period as I can find no public records. If anyone can assist me or point me in the right direction I would very much appreciate it. Thanks!


----------



## Franko (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm looking to find information or speak with for CAR members who were in the CAR during 1987-1990 in regards to Somalia before the major incidents of the earl/mid 90's. Also for information about what CAR was Doug during that time period as I can find no public records. If anyone can assist me or point me in the right direction I would very much appreciate it. Thanks!



Can you tell us what the purpose of your search is for or who you are/ what news agency you're working for?

You may get a response if you fill in the blanks and provide some details.


----------



## bick (30 Dec 2012)

You may want to try:

www.commando.org

Be very open about who you are, what you request and for whom you work.  Expect alot of flak if you're a journalist, but someone will probably respond to your questions.


----------



## Infoseeker (30 Dec 2012)

The purpose of my search is to find out more information about my fiance's past. It's a topic he doesn't like to speak about so I only have the most vague information about it and I would like to know more. My name is Danielle and I'm not a news reporter nor am I affiliated with any such agency. I'm really just trying to fill in some blanks about my fiance's past. 

I tried to join both Canadianairborneregent and commando.org to ask this same question, but on the one, for whatever reason, every time I tried to join I couldn't. I kept getting an message that my email has been banned. (I tried different emails too) and for commando.org when I tried to join it told me my ip address was blocked.


----------



## Scott (30 Dec 2012)

Do you suppose that you might just be displaying a little mistrust in your partner? 

Perhaps you could just be, oh I don't know, upfront and honest with him and make a statement as to how these blanks are making you feel? Give him  chance to speak to you about it or tell you to mind your own business? And if he tells you to mind your business then make a decision: leave over this or let it frigging go.

I dunno, this sounds uber fishy to me and unless I suspected a Walt or something illegal happening there's no way I'd drop that sort of dime to someone who could be sneaking about behind their partner's back.

Edited to add: I just asked my wife, who appeared on the scene long after I finished my time in the Mo, if she had any questions about my time in, or my deployment. She said she had enough info, doesn't care to talk about the things I do not often talk about, and that she'd ask me if she had any questions...but would also respect my right to say, "I do not want to speak about this"

Best of luck to you and your relationship.


----------



## Infoseeker (30 Dec 2012)

It has nothing to do with mistrust in my partner. Next time he wakes up in the middle of the night or can't sleep one night, how about I let you be the one who sits up with him all night. 

Forgive me if I am a little bit sensitive about this. Something of what he has seen or done has stayed with him for all these years, as his partner I absolutely want to know. He is well aware that I am looking for information on the subject, so it's not behind his back either. His words to me regarding finding any information, good luck.


----------



## Scott (30 Dec 2012)

Well it makes no sense to me whatsoever, so you fill your boots.

Forgive me if I am a little guarded. You've been very vague all along.


----------



## PuckChaser (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> It has nothing to do with mistrust in my partner. Next time he wakes up in the middle of the night or can't sleep one night, how about I let you be the one who sits up with him all night.



I'd be a little less hostile if I were you. There a lot of members on this forum who know first hand the effects of an OSI or PTSD case either from clinical work or how it effects themselves. Comments like this really make people not want to help you.


----------



## Scott (30 Dec 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I'd be a little less hostile if I were you. There a lot of members on this forum who know first hand the effects of an OSI or PTSD case either from clinical work or how it effects themselves. Comments like this really make people not want to help you.



Well said. Milpoints inbound.


----------



## Jarnhamar (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> It has nothing to do with mistrust in my partner. Next time he wakes up in the middle of the night or can't sleep one night, how about I let you be the one who sits up with him all night.



Challenge accepted.


----------



## Infoseeker (30 Dec 2012)

No its my bad, I'm sorry. I felt like you were saying our relationship wouldn't last and I got defensive. Especially by saying I was sneaking behind his back. 

I know nothing about how military service works so ii have a million and one questions and half of them I can't find satisfactory answers for. I am being vague yes because I don't wan to pt specific details on a public forum. My questions are mostly related to Canadian presence in Somalia between 1987-1989/1990. My number one question is why can't I find anything about it onlIne except starting in 1992/1993.

I don't mean to be hostile I'm just finding it frustrating not to be able to google and have all the information I need. I also don't mean to be disrespectful, I only have a minimal understanding of PTSD etc, it's one of those things a person like me who has been sheltered from any sort of horror or atrocity can never truly understand. 

@obedientZelum - thank you lol. It obviously was an out of line remark and your comment made me stop for a moment and then laugh at myself for being ridiculous.


----------



## MikeL (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> My questions are mostly related to Canadian presence in Somalia between 1987-1989/1990. My number one question is why can't I find anything about it onlIne except starting in 1992/1993.



What makes you believe the Airborne Regiment/Canadian Forces were deployed to Somalia between 1987-1990? 




> A further United States-led multinational initiative was authorized by the UN in late 1992. Canada, along with more than 20 other nations, participated in this as well. During their time in Somalia, Canadians did many things to try to improve the desperate situation there. They escorted famine relief convoys, participated in the removal of landmines and collected or destroyed thousands of confiscated weapons. Despite their best efforts, the international forces could not end the strife in the country. In 1995, the final UN peace support mission withdrew.


http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/canadianforces/factsheets/somalia


----------



## cupper (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker, perhaps you could make use of your local family resources center for discussion of ways you could help your fiance to work through those periods. Also, seeking professional help or joining support groups for yourself to find ways of coping with the effects of what your fiance is going through.

I have lived with a family member who dealt with undiagnosed PTSD for 30 years, and my wife suffers from panic / anxiety disorder which can have similar effects as PTSD. I know that just having someone outside the situation to talk about it can be helpful for the spouse / family of the member dealing with PTSD.

One piece of advice I can give you from my experiences is to be patient and understanding, but don't pressure him to open up. When he feels ready to open up, make yourself available, but do not judge anything he may reveal to you. Be supportive and encouraging. Just be there for him.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Jarnhamar (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> @obedientZelum - thank you lol. It obviously was an out of line remark and your comment made me stop for a moment and then laugh at myself for being ridiculous.



No problem, I just watched the movie Savages last night.....


----------



## Infoseeker (30 Dec 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> What makes you believe the Airborne Regiment/Canadian Forces were deployed to Somalia between 1987-1990?
> 
> http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/canadianforces/factsheets/somalia



Because he was in Somalia around 87/88.


----------



## MikeL (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> Because he was in Somalia around 87/88.



A former CAR member can provide more detail,  but from what I found through google is that the CAR was deployed to Cyprus 1986/1987.  Their only deployment to Somalia(from what I can find) was the UN deployment 1992/1993.


----------



## Infoseeker (30 Dec 2012)

Ats all I could find also, hence my post here.


----------



## Edward Campbell (30 Dec 2012)

There was some fighting in Cyprus in 74 and everyone is, of course, aware of what happened in Somalia in 92.

In between, the CAR:

1. A moved about, a bit, from Edmonton to Petawawa and did two more rotations in Cyprus; and

2. Was reorganized a couple of times ~ mostly, in my opinion,  because the Army was unsure of what the CAR was all about and, even worse, for morale, was unsure of what it was *for*.

In Petawawa, in at least the 1980s, the Regiment had some leadership problems - some of which ended up being the root cause of the Somailia situation (my opinion again).

In the late 80s, recognizing the CAR's very evident discipline and morale problems - the two always go hand in hand - Gen de Chasterlain, the CDS, promised the Regiment that he would send them on the next "good" mission. He, and the NDHQ staff, had in mind an operation in the Western Sahara - but the ceasefire there, in 1991, and subsequent disagreements within the parties and the UN about how to enforce it, made a "good" deployment of a first rate combat unit unnecessary. Then came another reorganization and, in the midst of it, Somalia.

There were a lot of very, very good people in the CAR, over the years, but, sadly (and mainly, I think, in the officer corps) some very bad ones, too. I'm sure many soldiers, especially good NCOs, were under considerable stress, in the 80s, due to the ongoing organizational, leadership and discipline problems.


----------



## MikeL (30 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> Ats all I could find also, hence my post here.



You might want to confirm unit/dates/location of the deployment - would help in finding information regarding the tour.

The only deployments the CAR had(from what I can find) is to Cyprus in the '70s/'80s and Somalia 92/93.  They deployed twice within Canada,  to Quebec for the "October Crisis" in 1970,  and again in 1976 to provide support at the Montreal Olympics.

Looking up past operations on a DND website,  all that was listed for Somalia was in 1992-1993,  none in the '80s.

Op Relief
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=205&CdnOpId=246

Op Deliverance
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=283&CdnOpId=339

Op Cordon
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=297&CdnOpId=357


List of CF deployments in Africa during the '80s

Sudan
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=182&CdnOpId=222

Ethiopia
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=41&CdnOpId=41

Libya
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=101&CdnOpId=117

Rhodesia/Zimbabwe 
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=19&CdnOpId=19

Zambia
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=315&CdnOpId=386
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=315&CdnOpId=387

Nigeria
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=131&CdnOpId=155
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=129&CdnOpId=153

Namibia
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=308&CdnOpId=378


----------



## cupper (30 Dec 2012)

Skeletor:

You left out Namibia in 89/90, but the CAR wasn't deployed.

Also, we're basing this on the assumption that the member was deployed as part of the CAR, and not as an attachment to some other unit which was deployed.


----------



## MikeL (30 Dec 2012)

cupper said:
			
		

> You left out Namibia in 89/90, but the CAR wasn't deployed.



Thanks, updated the list to show that deployment.


----------



## Cansky (30 Dec 2012)

Skeletor

Thanks for the link.  Had a look at the database and its missing some deployments.  For eg.  Op Pivot Haiti Feb 95-Feb 96 is not in the database.  So there may be others missing as well


----------



## MikeL (30 Dec 2012)

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> Skeletor
> 
> Thanks for the link.  Had a look at the database and its missing some deployments.  For eg.  Op Pivot Haiti Feb 95-Feb 96 is not in the database.  So there may be others missing as well



Ack,  thanks for pointing that out.  Hadn't considered that the list may be missing some deployments;  also the site appears to group some deployments together.  


Within Op Cauldron it has the Op Pivot info

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=287&CdnOpId=345


> Canadians joined the other UNMIH troops (sometimes referred to as UNMIH II) in March 1995 when approximately 500 Canadian Forces personnel were deployed to Haiti under the task force name Canadian Contingent United Nations Mission in Haiti (CCUNMIH) Operation PIVOT. The Canadian contingent included aviation, engineering, transportation and administrative support personnel from across the country, primarily from a mixture of Air Command units and formations. They were tasked with the provision of logistical and construction support to overall UNMIH operations.
> 
> The Canadian contribution to UNMIH was expanded in March 1996 when UNMIH’s mandate was extended for a final four-month period. Replacing most of the Canadian air force personnel during this period were 750 ground personnel under the new contingent name Canadian Contingent in Haiti (CCIH), Operation STANDARD.


----------



## Old Sweat (30 Dec 2012)

As I recall events, the regiment was pretty well stuck in Petawawa except for exercises during the period in question. A deployment to the Western Sahara was a possibility, but it did not happen. The Gulf erupted with the invasion of Kuwait in early August 1990 and the CDS mused out loud that the regiment could go to join the coalition. This did not happen, and the airborne community, which was getting a little paranoid about doing nothing, began to see conspiracies by legs everywhere.

There may have been a recce or even a few to the Western Sahara, but in the end we sent individuals, but I can't recall when. I don't think Somalia was on the radar at that time, but someplace in the Horn of Africa might have been.


----------



## armyvern (30 Dec 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> A former CAR member can provide more detail,  but from what I found through google is that the CAR was deployed to Cyprus 1986/1987.  Their only deployment to Somalia(from what I can find) was the UN deployment 1992/1993.



That's correct;  they also deployed the Force Protection platoon portion of UNTAG to Namibia in 1989 as part of 89 CLU.

If your fiance was part of this deployment, I would most likely know who he is ... or my ex-husband would (who was one of the Airborne Reg't members deployed with us).


----------



## Kat Stevens (30 Dec 2012)

Did we not send people to Rwanda in 90-91 ish too?


----------



## armyvern (30 Dec 2012)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Did we not send people to Rwanda in 90-91 ish too?



Rwanda occurred immediately after Somalia.


----------



## medicineman (30 Dec 2012)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Did we not send people to Rwanda in 90-91 ish too?



94 - my unit had nobody left with a pulse that summer between Croatia, Bosnia and Rwanda...


----------



## cupper (30 Dec 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> I'm not assuming anything,  just posted info regarding when/where the CAR deployed.  Plus the Africa tours Canada had during the '80s as Infoseeker's spouse may have deployed on one of those.



Wasn't indicating you specifically, but pointing out that in general comments were leaning towards unit deployments rather than individuals.

I know from what I remember about that time, there were not a lot of new deployments during that period, a lot of ongoing stuff like UNDOF, Cyprus, etc. And as someone pointed out, the CAR was on hold for possible deployment to Western Sahara. Things didn't start heating up until 90/91 and then the CF was going non stop for essentially the next 10 years.


----------



## Loachman (31 Dec 2012)

Hello, Infoseeker, and welcome.

Understand, as you have probably realized, that we are somewhat suspicious of outsiders asking certain types of questions.

Despite that, it is in our nature to be as helpful as possible.

If your fiance is suffering from the effects of a deployment, help is available. We have come a long way since those days.


----------



## muskrat89 (31 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker - I think, as some may be alluding to here - that it is possible to be an airborne-qualified soldier, but in a Unit other than the CAR.


----------



## garb811 (31 Dec 2012)

Another possibility is Op VAGABOND (UNIIMOG) in Iran and the location is wrong with the correct dates?  Maybe he was an individual augmentee, especially if non-infantry, as this was an ad-hoc mission like Namibia where they had to drawn people in from everywhere.

DHH Operations Database Link to Op VAGABOND

_Edit to add DHH link._


----------



## 2 Cdo (31 Dec 2012)

Infoseeker said:
			
		

> I tried to join both Canadianairborneregent and commando.org to ask this same question, but on the one, for whatever reason, every time I tried to join I couldn't. I kept getting an message that my email has been banned. (I tried different emails too) and for commando.org when I tried to join it told me my ip address was blocked.



If this is true it was for good reason. Personally, I'm not buying your story one bit. :


----------



## Jarnhamar (31 Dec 2012)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> If this is true it was for good reason. Personally, I'm not buying your story one bit. :



So her partner tells her he was with the airborne in somalia or something- and she finds her IP address banned from commando.org

The plot thickens


----------



## 2 Cdo (31 Dec 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> So her partner tells her he was with the airborne in somalia or something- and she finds her IP address banned from commando.org
> 
> The plot thickens



I belong to commando.org and we had a similar issue a few years ago with a woman claiming her father was ex-airborne and she wanted members to donate airborne stuff to her. When given the link to a site for purchasing airborne memorabilia she got very indignant and started calling members down. I've got a funny feeling this is the same person.


----------



## Jarnhamar (31 Dec 2012)

You can buy airborne memorabilia from a website?

That explains a lot, my mom has an airborne regiment t-shirt but my dad was never in the army. She must have bought it online.


cool.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (31 Dec 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> You can buy airborne memorabilia from a website?
> 
> That explains a lot, my mom has an airborne regiment t-shirt but my dad was never in the army. She must have bought it online.
> 
> ...



Awesome!! :rofl:


----------



## my72jeep (31 Dec 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> You can buy airborne memorabilia from a website?
> 
> That explains a lot, my mom has an airborne regiment t-shirt but my dad was never in the army. She must have bought it online.
> 
> ...


And I though only Rodeo's had Buckle bunny's T-shirt bunny's.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (31 Dec 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> You can buy airborne memorabilia from a website?
> 
> That explains a lot, my mom has an airborne regiment t-shirt but my dad was never in the army. She must have bought it online.
> 
> ...



Many unit t-shirts sometimes come with stickers that can be attached to the bedframe


----------



## Jungle (31 Dec 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> You can buy airborne memorabilia from a website?
> 
> That explains a lot, my mom has an airborne regiment t-shirt but my dad was never in the army. She must have bought it online.
> 
> ...



There were different ways for a girl to acquire a CAR t-shirt; but she had to reside in Canada, or in a foreign country...


----------



## Kat Stevens (31 Dec 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> And I though only Rodeo's had Buckle bunny's T-shirt bunny's.



The Roz in Edmonton was full of them.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (31 Dec 2012)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> As I recall events, the regiment was pretty well stuck in Petawawa except for exercises during the period in question.  . . . . .



Seen, but even exercises (and other usually normal activities) can take a serious toll on soldiers.  January 1989 was particularly harsh for the CAR (and other units that lost members) due to losses in the Herc crash in Alaska and the five soldiers who died in a traffic accident a week earlier.  The opening post of this thread has more details.


----------



## Old Sweat (31 Dec 2012)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Seen, but even exercises (and other usually normal activities) can take a serious toll on soldiers.  January 1989 was particularly harsh for the CAR (and other units that lost members) due to losses in the Herc crash in Alaska and the five soldiers who died in a traffic accident a week earlier.  The opening post of this thread has more details.



Yes, I remember those incidents, and they were tragedies. It reinforces the point, though, that the regiment was not deployed overseas.


----------



## armyvern (31 Dec 2012)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Seen, but even exercises (and other usually normal activities) can take a serious toll on soldiers.  January 1989 was particularly harsh for the CAR (and other units that lost members) due to losses in the Herc crash in Alaska and the five soldiers who died in a traffic accident a week earlier.  The opening post of this thread has more details.



Also had the grenade incident on the ranges simultaneous with these others.  It was a harsh time just prior to our deploying on UNTAG.  Many funeral parades.


----------



## Jungle (1 Jan 2013)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Also had the grenade incident on the ranges simultaneous with these others.  It was a harsh time just prior to our deploying on UNTAG.  Many funeral parades.



The grenade incident happened in March 1989, in the Petawawa trg are; Para Riverin was killed in that incident.


----------

