# Kit for FIBUA



## RiflemanPhil (8 Dec 2005)

What sort of kit would one want to buy/and or take with you for a long FIBUA exercise? Like what would you recommend I get for urban warfare, and where can i get it?
*edited


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## Kal (8 Dec 2005)

Phil, I would suggest using proper grammar and correcting your question if you want those that have the experience to answer your question to actually answer it.  Just a hint.....


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## KevinB (8 Dec 2005)

A Dictionary or Thesaurus   ;D


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## Old Ranger (8 Dec 2005)

An Adult for supervision... ;D


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## RiflemanPhil (8 Dec 2005)

Ha, ha, sorry about that, as soon as I posted that, I realized I was using "net-speak" (I was also on MSN at the time). I'm not sure how to fix it though, can you tell me how, and could you also respond to the question?


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## Old Ranger (8 Dec 2005)

Too fix, click on modify button, upper right of the post you want to fix within 24hrs of posting.

Too pack, have to ask, did you try search first?

Ben

Edit: if you update your profile, someone might be able to direct you to LCF kit locations near you.  You can always try the Canex first.


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## Baloo (8 Dec 2005)

This whistle. 

If there is a war, blow it and we can come help you.

Seriously...they will assign you everything you need for OBUA. 

If you're desperate for stuff to buy, the only things you MIGHT want to get, are kneepads or a Camelbak. 

But you could just do a search. Kit threads are coming out the arse.


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## kyleg (9 Dec 2005)

I would definitely suggest a small white fuel (aka naphtha) stove, such as a whisperlite. It's great for making hot chocolate/coffee/mixes of both and it can really warm up a FIBUA house room.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## paracowboy (9 Dec 2005)

save your money. You'll be issued everything you need.


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## jmackenzie_15 (9 Dec 2005)

The only thing ive ever bought myself that I really needed and didnt have, was a good pair of gloves.
All the issue ones I had were too clumsy and thick to do too much with, untill I found a great pair of black work gloves. Theyre indestructable, and a wicked fit. Some guys cut the tips of the fingers off to make it easier to operate buckles and bullets and those sorts of things.

I also bought some knee pads, but those dont need explaining... but Ive had those since I got in and used them quite a bit for conventional warfare training as well. Other than that though, there really is nothing else you could need that the army doesnt give you.

Keep in mind, I belong to a reserve unit and im not privy to the kind of state of the art kit the regF gets... like knee pads and a good pair of combat gloves  ;D


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## LAWN DART (9 Dec 2005)

YES SAVE YOUR MONEY. IF YOUR WIHT THE CANADIAN ARMY AND YOUR DOING FIBUA YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ISSUED KNEE PADS AND ELBO PADS ALREADY. SAVE YOUR CASH YOU DONT NEED ANY EXTRAS


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## BKells (9 Dec 2005)

LAWN DART said:
			
		

> YES SAVE YOUR MONEY. IF YOUR WIHT THE CANADIAN ARMY AND YOUR DOING FIBUA YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ISSUED KNEE PADS AND ELBO PADS ALREADY. SAVE YOUR CASH YOU DONT NEED ANY EXTRAS



Where's the fire? Gear down, big truck. Let go of the SHIFT button, it'll give you carpel tunnel.


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## kyleg (9 Dec 2005)

BKells said:
			
		

> Where's the fire? Gear down, big truck. Let go of the SHIFT button, it'll give you carpel tunnel.



+1


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## Daidalous (9 Dec 2005)

As already stated  you will be given the gear that you require.   If you decide to buy any equipment go through the training yourself, then make informed decision on what "YOU" need to do your job better.   What might work for 1 solider might not work as well for someone else.  


Hope this saves you a few bucks


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## RiflemanPhil (9 Dec 2005)

Roger
Oh and just a question, do we always have to wear the issue tac vests? Just personally, I like to be able to carry a bit more kit. I'm looking at a South African urban tac vest rite now. Also what would you recommend for camelbacks and glove types? cp gear? and what brand?


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## jmackenzie_15 (9 Dec 2005)

RiflemanPhil said:
			
		

> Roger
> Oh and just a question, do we always have to wear the issue tac vests? Just personally, I like to be able to carry a bit more kit. I'm looking at a South African urban tac vest rite now. Also what would you recommend for camelbacks and glove types? cp gear? and what brand?



lol yes you have to wear your tac vest all the time. Its part of your full fighting order, and what canada has decided we will use. If Canada decided we would use a south african vest, we would wear those, but it didnt, so we don't.

If you have all the kit youre supposed to have, youll have a hard time finding room for things to carry that you actually need.


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## pte. Massecar (9 Dec 2005)

the tac vast is fine for fibua. You can get a pack if you need to carry more kit. Knee pads and a camelback are things that you were not issued and I would honestly say you need them. (Ive been in for 3 years and I honestly would say they are required) The knee pads prevent injury so you can keep on fighting and the camelback keeps you hydrated so you can keep fighting. They are issued to regs but being in the reserves I know we don't get this nice kit. So, invest in knee pads and a camelback. Everything else you need is issued.


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## kyleg (9 Dec 2005)

Don't waste your hard earned money on cpgear just because it's cadpat. The reserves are getting our small packs now (I've already got mine) and you can put a hydration bladder in there. That means there's no need to spend extra cash on tactical covers etc. I've never had a problem with my CamelBak brand hydration system so I have no problem suggesting them to you.

As for knee pads I know a few guys that use volleyball gell kneepads. Apparently the single, wide strap around the leg is much more comfortable than the usual 2 strap system.

Like Daidalous said, go on ex first, then decide what you need. It's easy to look at someone else's kit and say "I need one of those!" but it just turns out to be dead weight on your back. Let your needs decide what kit you pack, not vice versa. And you won't know what your needs are until you have some experience.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Armymedic (9 Dec 2005)

Knee pads and elbow pads...

thats it


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## NATO Boy (9 Dec 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Knee pads and elbow pads...



Definitely, hitting your knees and elbows off of concrete walls/floors and window sills sucks a$$.

One thing you might wanna get is a carabiner; if one of your FIBUA SOPs is "No slings on weapons," you can use it to attach the rear sling swivel of your rifle to a loop on your tac-vest. It keeps your rifle secured to your shoulder making acquisition easier and providing a way to free your hands when using the "thump-thump" or climbing ladders/obstacles with other tools.  

This is what I was taught in Demo Support during this summer; take it for what it's worth.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Dec 2005)

Knee and elbow pads are a must.

Glowsticks for throwing into rooms and dark corners 
(And you can keep them and use them at raves if your from TO. Point to note, if your a reservist from Toronto, do NOT take the glowsticks to "shots" in petawawa and dance with them, dummies)

Chalk for writting on walls.   Or funny body outlines al la CSI style.

Electrical tape. great for taping the 522 attennea when the bastard is flipping all over the place. Tape a maglight onto your gat.





> This is what I was taught in Demo Support during this summer; take it for what it's worth.


You mean you guys didn't just fuck around all summer?


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## RiflemanPhil (10 Dec 2005)

Thanks ghost
I'll take the advice in hand, oh and by the way, reservists DO get issued knee and elbow pads (though knowing the system i'm not surprised most arent issued em). After i try em out, i'll decide between the volleyball ones or issue. And i havent heard nething about the patrol packs yet, but heres hoping. I like the carabiner, electrical tape, camelback, chalk and glowstick advice


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## Forgotten_Hero (10 Dec 2005)

About the gloves:

During course I baught myself those hatchet gloves with the black kevlar palm or something and the green top... they're a pretty good fit, and they can actually be used! They're not as good in sandy areas after it rains... like Petewawa. They got soaked and I couldnt use them no more. The sand was sticking to them like a sob too. When they're dry though...

They cost me 50$ and I found out last week that it was a waste of money though... although it helped me during course for a total of a week, we're getting issued those cadpat gloves supposedly in January. They kind of look cheesy, but they wont be affected by slight rain and sand as much as the other ones of mine... and with a tight fit, they arent bad either.


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## Gayson (11 Dec 2005)

Check out www.oneshottactical.com

They sell good stuff there, and it's a Canadian buisness.


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## darmil (11 Dec 2005)

All you really need is a backpack,kneepads and camelback.For FIBUA its all water and ammo. :bullet:


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## Jarnhamar (11 Dec 2005)

> All you really need is a backpack,kneepads and camelback.For FIBUA its all water and ammo.



What if it's dark?



Sounds hokey but I've seen different coloured tape used effectively on soldiers weapons, vests and helmets to denote which section or platoon they are.

Confusing is going to be your biggest obstacle.
Assuming your with the reserves and training in a fibua environment, you'll have between 1 and 3 platoons running around.   Guys will get shot and guys from other sections will fill in the gaps.   Someone will call for 2 section to move forward. Is that 1 2 or 3 platoon '2 section'?   Add to that 2 section is really 4 guys from 2 section, 2 guys from 1 section and some new private from 3 section. They they will remember they are a part of 2 section now? Not a chance.

One of the biggest challanges I find with fibua (namely among us guys who practice it the odd week-night or week-end) is everyone going all over the place. You need to find a way to keep track of your guys. Leaders are notorious for grabbing wide eyed privates and staying "stay here and guard this corner". The attack carries on and the pte is sitting there faithfully guarding his little corner.   You can run past him and not even know he's one of your guys since everyone is all done up.   I find the tape helps you find your little lost sheep.

Since a company is going to have 3 different "three sections" sometimes we've played with the names a little.   Sections from 1 platoon will be red 1 2 and 3.   Guys from 2 platoon will be blue teams or blue 1 2 or 3 etc..
Disadvantage of that is that it takes some work getting used to it. Most of the times we've tried to impliment it at the last second people just got confused.     Maybe theres a better way to seperate sections by platoons.

And yes this has zero to do with fibua equipment but it's post count +1


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## RiflemanPhil (11 Dec 2005)

thanks, it sounds like good advice to me


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## Farmboy (11 Dec 2005)

If you were issued the gear that you need, I would not be in business. ;D   The amount of gear going overseas for Canadians is unreal.

That said being a reservist you do not need to spend much money at all on kit , especially if you never plan to do a tour.

Like said above, camelbak and knee pads.

One thing I would say to get though is a good one point sling for FIBUA/ CQB/ OIBUA/ FISH.

Blue Force Gear makes ones that convert from 1 to 2 to 3 point and have adaptors to fit any weapon, also avalible is a sling point to attach to your vest.

http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=oneshot&Category_Code=SL


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## LAWN DART (12 Dec 2005)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> lol yes you have to wear your tac vest all the time. Its part of your full fighting order, and what canada has decided we will use. If Canada decided we would use a south african vest, we would wear those, but it didnt, so we don't.
> 
> If you have all the kit youre supposed to have, youll have a hard time finding room for things to carry that you actually need.




NO you dont ahve to wear teh tac vest all the time. as long as your out in teh field and you check with your section commander first you can usually wear what ever rig you want


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## Jarnhamar (12 Dec 2005)

> NO you dont ahve to wear teh tac vest all the time. as long as your out in teh field and you check with your section commander first you can usually wear what ever rig you want



That has to be a reg force thing?


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## kyleg (12 Dec 2005)

Depends on the unit, and who's in charge. I know a guy who said he used to use an american vest instead of the old webbing. He checked it with the platoon WO first, and he was GTG.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## RiflemanPhil (13 Dec 2005)

wow, thats pretty neat, it would make my life nicer, but I doubt that that will happen to me, oh well. Anyhow, in terms of gloves, what should I be looking for? Like i mean I haven't done fibua ops yet, and I'd rather not experiment with getting my hands ripped to shreds, seeing as I'm also a concert pianist, lol.


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## Jarnhamar (13 Dec 2005)

> I'm also a concert pianist, lol.



Reminds me about the joke involving a 12 inch pianist, a hard of hearing genie and a disapointed bartender.


If you guys have not even been involved in fibua ops yet don't worry about what equipment your using. Your not going to know the difference and you're likely to waste your money. Just because certian gloves work for me they might not work for you. Wait till you get a little time crawling around dusty buildings before you start experimenting with changing around your stuff.  USe your black leather gloves with green stretchy inners.




> I know a guy who said he used to use an american vest instead of the old webbing. He checked it with the platoon WO first, and he was GTG.



I believe the guy told you that. Wheter I believe he actually did it is another question.
In the reserves you might be able to get by on a week-end ex doing that. I'm pretty sure at brigade level anything like that will get squished pretty bad.


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## D-n-A (13 Dec 2005)

I've seen a few R031s in 39CBG units wear non-issue LBE, even on Brigade and Area exs.
Cougar Salvo 2005 I saw a Cpl in the C Scots wearing a US Molle Vest with ALICE pouches and a crappy digicam boonie hat.


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## NATO Boy (14 Dec 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> Depends on the unit, and who's in charge. I know a guy who said he used to use an american vest instead of the old webbing. He checked it with the platoon WO first, and he was GTG.



Agreed, at least on SG '03, back when we still had 82 pattern webbing some people used Eagle or Blackhawk vests as a better alternative (especially during FIBUA.) With the CTS Tac Vest, it's a moot point to wear/use something else when we're just on an EX. On the other hand, if your EN FOR.... ;D



			
				MikeH said:
			
		

> All you really need is a backpack,kneepads and camelback.For FIBUA its all water and ammo. :bullet:



x2, except with the backpack (unless it's WRT "using" a backpack.) The issued CTS Small Pack will do fine for him; no need to buy some MOLLE-infested assault bag yet...  Speaking of which, I wonder if using one of the 5 Litre pockets on the vest (as a dump pouch) would work any good...


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## KevinB (14 Dec 2005)

Hmm I typed up a nice reply yesterday and it seems to have been lost in lala land.

Eye Pro -- Bolle T800's are in the system for spefic breaching and other use -- use goggles not glasses.
Ear Pro -- preferable active ear type i.e. Peltor Comtac's or Sordins etc.

Flame resistant under garments * a necessity - with CF issue clother they are highly flamable/metlable and you dont want to be a subhuman shrink wrap.
 *ideally a flame resistant outwear too - but the CF does not liekj that idea (way to go CTS)

Good footwear -- a medium shoe -- Salomon Experts Mid's or similar -- 

Flash light
Weapon Light

More later I gotta run to the range.


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## Dissident (14 Dec 2005)

MikeL said:
			
		

> I've seen a few R031s in 39CBG units wear non-issue LBE, even on Brigade and Area exs.
> Cougar Salvo 2005 I saw a Cpl in the C Scots wearing a US Molle Vest with ALICE pouches and a crappy digicam boonie hat.



Forget the corporal. I saw the RSM of the C scotts, (or was it the westies) who's only issued kit was his vest and rifle. MARPAT boonie hat and civie rain jacket. I am not aware if he was OPFOR or not, thought.

Sorry fo rthe interruption.


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## RiflemanPhil (14 Dec 2005)

Hey, umm, flashlight and weaponlight? also you mentioned footwear. are we allowed to not wear the boots?!?! that would be awesome! And are these like those swat boots?


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## kyleg (14 Dec 2005)

RiflemanPhil said:
			
		

> are we allowed to not wear the boots?!?!



Again, it depends on your chain of command. We could tell you you're allowed to wear a pink bunny suit on ex if we wanted, that doesn't make it true ("But the good people on Army.ca told me I could, warrant!" ;D). This is a place of discussion, and we do not have unit/company/platoon-specific answers. Whenever you want to know what you're "allowed" to do ask your section commander or 2ic (not a flame, btw, I'm just saying that it's pointless to ask questions like this on this forum).

Cheers,
Pinky


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## kyleg (15 Dec 2005)

Mickey said:
			
		

> Speaking of which, I wonder if using one of the 5 Litre pockets on the vest (as a dump pouch) would work any good...



Haven't tried that but the old issue butt pack attaches nicely to the plastic D-rings on the bottom of the TV. Good for that extra snivel kit that you want fast (i.e. choco bars, powerade, warm gloves, etc.). If you leave the top unclipped and replace the paracord pull with shockcord you might have a working dump pouch.

Since I just came up with that shockcord bit while typing I think I'll have to try it out myself, it doesn't sound like a half bad idea ;D

Cheers,
Pinky


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## KevinB (15 Dec 2005)

I'm out so take my comments at face value as far as what you can wear.

I'm just offering my thoughts on what should be worn.


From top to toe Kev's daily wear (keep in mind I am not in a doorkicker specific role here)

Ball Hat (my cool SureFire hat if I can or the company hat if I cant...)--but Helmet in BugOut bag either in room/post or in vehicle - CF MSA GAllet helmet with Oregon Aero upgrade suspension - NV mount and side light mount bolted to helmet - Bolle T800's attached to helmet (SureFire M1 IR light in Bugout bag)
Nomex Balaclava in bugout bag  -- goes on before helmet if you have time 
Oakleys -- M Frame Sweeps - cuz I think they are sexy 
Peltor Comacts (on in vehicle - in bugout bag otherwise)
5.11 Shirt (long or T) (these are flame resistant versions similar to the Under Armour gear ones)
Company Shirt or My own
CF Flight Gloves (nomex - DO NOT CUT OFF THE FINGERS - the Navy learend the importance on unburned hands in the Falklands -- the Air Force knows it -- thr Army is just a little slow sometimes)
Underwear - CF issue ones (I'm a cheap bugger) washed with a flame retardant 
5.11 Pants (to quote SSFD on LF -- It's a 5.11 world baby)
Uncle Mike's Inner duty belt
Socks -- Wigwam/Thorlo whatever 
Salomon Expert Mid's -- very comfy no back aches like I get in Desert Boots or Danners after standing around or sitting around in Armour all day/night)

ID necklace
Uncle Mikes Outer belt with Safariland 6004 Holster
Maxpedition pouch (I dont knwo its name) weakside waist (its own belt) SF G2 light in pouch 

Paraclete RAV w/ pouches etc (SureFire Aviator in SF pouch on cumberbund)

Blue Force Gear SOC-C sling

For range work or specific other stuff I put on knee and elbow pads - otherwise they are in my bugout bag





____________________________________________

The CF is deficient in a lot of kit 
 Specifically Banger pouches (and bangers...)   - I have two on the front of my RAV -- since I am not doorkicking I took off the 5 banger pouch on the back of my RAV.
                Dump Pouches -- get a Maxpedition Rollypoly - spend the $30 and be done with it - You can put your sling and/or gloves in it when off duty.
                TACVEST is SHIT as it does not properly work with armour -- and doing FIBUA/CQB id INCREDIBLY DUMB W/O ARMOUR AND HARD PLATES...


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## RiflemanPhil (15 Dec 2005)

Umm, I'm afraid I couldn't understand half those acronyms  ???, lol. The parts I did get sounded fairly good. I'll take a look-see. Is it worth is to put a flashlight on ur helmet? Like isnt the light sorta bad, seeing as if its all dark, you might mess up your night-vision. Plus it could give away your location. Also, what about modifications to weapon like a the butt grip of a c9 on the handguards?


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## D-n-A (15 Dec 2005)

RiflemanPhil said:
			
		

> Plus it could give away your location.



If you guys are storming through a building tossing grenades, firing your weapons, etc   The enemy already knows you're there.

If your using NVGs, you could always get a flashlight(recommend surefire) attached to your rifle and put a IR cover on it.


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## jmackenzie_15 (15 Dec 2005)

Like mike said, with all that going on, they know youre coming.

Plus, theres lots of nooks and crannies you need or would want a big bright flashlight to peek at without putting your weapon down ( you should never ever EVER do that for any reason), and also, it makes it a little bit tough on the enemy to fight with all kinds of bright lights right in their face with people screaming at you  .

We're talking about fighting in built up areas, not rainbow six covert silence hostage rescue mission 2000. There are alot of worse things you can do to give away your intentions... don't worry about a flashlight going into a room.


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## KevinB (15 Dec 2005)

The M1 light on my helmet is a IR light -- it is not a vis light.

I personally would not put a vis light on my helmet.


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## Farmboy (15 Dec 2005)

> The M1 light on my helmet is a IR light -- it is not a vis light.
> 
> I personally would not put a vis light on my helmet.




 OH MY GOD!!!   Now that was funny!

  ;D


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## KevinB (15 Dec 2005)

Dude -- you lost me.

BTW You'll ship to APO's right?


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