# AEC Aircrew Selection



## LOLslamball (2 Jan 2012)

I am currently applying for AEC through the ROTP program and am scheduled to go to Trenton to undergo aircrew selection. I haven't been told much about the actual simulator or testing and was hoping someone had some more information. I was told this is the first year the simulator/test has been administered.

The study guide given to me was for CAPSS and was written in 2007. 

Thanks in advance. 

edit: I got the impression that I was not told details about the testing because my MCC didn't know much about it, not because I am not allowed to know.


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## aesop081 (2 Jan 2012)

You must have applies for ACSO or pilot as well.......AEC do not go through aircrew selection in trenton. Or theres been a sudden change.


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## LOLslamball (2 Jan 2012)

I applied for pilot, and was found suitable but not competitive, so I thought about it and went back and changed my application to AEC.

AEC is the only trade listed on my application, and the first sessions of this testing was run in December.  I think two sessions have been completed.

The join instrustions on the link below state that they are for Pilot/AEC and this table is pasted from the join instructions

AEC Selection
Wed. 	                                                   Thurs. 	             Thurs. eve., or Fri.
arrival at	                                             Aircrew Tests
CFASC 32 Buffalo Ave, Trenton                                            	departure
Yukon Lodge Trenton		                                                 for home


http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/8w-8e/units-unites/page-eng.asp?id=1210#


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## aesop081 (2 Jan 2012)

Fair enough, things change.

Don't worry about the CAPSS machine, not much you can do to prepare for it other than a bit of flight sim time on your computer. The thing shows you what you need to do, just be familiar with what is in the CAPSS book. The written tests are math intensive as well as spatial ability. Knowing a little about what basic aircraft instruments tell you will help. The rest is speed reading tables and you cant really prepare for that. They likely have added ( or something only for AECs) so this may all have changed a bit since i went there in 2008.


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## Zoomie (2 Jan 2012)

Looks like you will just be subjected to the written tests.  Not much point putting you in the CAPSS box since you won't be near any flight controls as an AEC.

It appears that they have instituted some sort of selection criteria for the AEC trade - hence the testing done on Thursday morning.  In the blue book, just focus on the written test portion - ignore anything that refers to the "simulator".


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## LOLslamball (2 Jan 2012)

Thanks for the replies, 

I am not sure as to the format of the test, I think it is on computers or a new simulator, but it may include written parts too.  

When I was looking up CAPSS there was a DND publication that explained a lot about it and a lot of things that I would not disclose after I had finished, but I haven't found a scrap of anything online about this testing yet.


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## aesop081 (2 Jan 2012)

LOLslamball said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies,
> 
> I am not sure as to the format of the test, I think it is on computers or a new simulator, but it may include written parts too.
> 
> When I was looking up CAPSS there was a DND publication that explained a lot about it and a lot of things that I would not disclose after I had finished, but I haven't found a scrap of anything online about this testing yet.



The CAPSS ( the "simulator") is for pilot candidates only. Don't worry about it. If they have something new for AEC candidates, this is what you will have to worry about. I am sure they will show you what you need to do when you are there.


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## LOLslamball (2 Jan 2012)

I suppose all candidates are on level footing.  I was just hoping to study more efficiently before I arrived.


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## biggs (2 Jan 2012)

Interesting.  I had heard through the grapevine that they were looking at implementing a pre-enrollment selection test for AEC applicants, but I didn't think they'd started using it already.  From what I was told, it's aimed at reducing the number of candidates who fail in phase training, which is fairly high.

I would imagine it's a written or computer based test, similar in format (but not necessarily subject matter) to the ACSO test.  Like any sort of selection or screening process, just give it your level best and hope it turns out.


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## Melbatoast (3 Jan 2012)

Here's some more speculation, but maybe the AEC stuff is based on the "experimental" CBT they were giving pilot candidates for a while.  I did it in 2009, I don't know if they are still doing it (it didn't count toward your selection, they were just going to compare your performance versus how you do/did in training after passing CAPSS).  It was more typical of airline-industry abstract style psychomotor testing, rather than CAPSS which provides a more directly observable (to the casual onlooker) connection to flying.  It might, _might_ also work for AEC selection.

This is a guess.  *Don't* make any plans based on this *wild-ass guess*.


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## LOLslamball (3 Jan 2012)

It would make sense seeing as CAPSS was developed over 10 years and they obviously have to test the tests to make sure they work.

I won't base anything on your guess, but I will take a look into it and I'll let you know when I get back.


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## biggs (3 Jan 2012)

Well, I was holding back from speculating that far, but there may be something to what Melbatoast said.

When I was on SLT, they had all the AEC 2LTs in the language school go over to Cornwall for a day and do that very test.  I had done the same one when I was at CFASC (also in 2009).  Apparently they left out the stick-and-rudder stuff, but they did everything else.  Also, if I recall correctly, this is a test the RAF uses for their aircrew selection.

It was pretty clear that this was a trial to establish a baseline.  All the AECs at the language school at that time had not gone through any pre-enrollment selection, nor had they started their phase training.  They will no doubt have their career progress compared to their results on this test to see how good it is at predicting training success.  However I'm surprised they've forged ahead and are already using it for pre-enrollment selection.

P.S. You weren't by any chance at CFASC in _June_ of 2009, were you Melbatoast?

(Edit: Missing word in a sentence...)


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## Melbatoast (3 Jan 2012)

biggs said:
			
		

> P.S. You weren't by any chance at CFASC in _June_ of 2009, were you Melbatoast?



Nope, April.  

Good intel on the other stuff.  

For the candidates there is a lot of free stuff of that style available on the web, and you can buy practice material, too, if you are _really_ convinced it will help you and have the money.


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## LOLslamball (4 Jan 2012)

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> For the candidates there is a lot of free stuff of that style available on the web, and you can buy practice material, too, if you are _really_ convinced it will help you and have the money.



I am neither, but I've already found lots to study.

Did you mean psychomotor testing or psychometric testing?

From what I have gathered from google I think that psychomotor is responding to questions using motor skills. And it usually tests spatial ability and/or motor skills.

While Psychometric testing is timed aptitude tests such as the CFAT.  Which is what NAV Canada uses in their application process.


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## biggs (4 Jan 2012)

If you read my previous post carefully you'll realize it will most likely be the latter.

While the trial test that Toast and I did at CFASC as pilot candidates included both a psychomotor (stick and rudder) and a psychometric portion, the trial test they had the untrained AECs do was only the psychometric part. 

Logically, it would follow that this will be the case for you as an AEC candidate. The fact that Nav Canada uses those types of tests further supports that idea, as they train both civillian and military air traffic controllers.


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## SentryMAn (4 Jan 2012)

so....after reading this and pondering awhile, then looking on the forces website I came to the conclusion that I do not know what AEC stands for?  I see ACSO, AEO and ACO but no AEC listed?


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## aesop081 (4 Jan 2012)

Aerospace Control Officer

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aerospacecontrolofficer-35


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## SentryMAn (4 Jan 2012)

I just thought that would be ACO, ;-)


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## LOLslamball (26 Jan 2012)

Melbatoast and Biggs, I'd just like to thank you for your information and responses.

It ended up being the first session ever, and 3 of 7 passed.  Thankfully I was one of them.  

The testing was probably similar to what you beta tested, from speaking with an MCC after wards it sounded like  they had been testing it for awhile.  Not an AEC simulator, just a lot of aptitude stuff.  

It was something that would be extremely hard to study for, unless you were told exactly what was on the test.  Luckily for me a lot of the stuff was right up my alley, thanks to my mom forcing me to practice it during elementary school.


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## biggs (30 Jan 2012)

Glad to hear you passed.  If your mom was drilled you on that stuff when you were in grade school, I'll bet you weren't thanking her for it at the time.  

They surely had been beta testing it for a while since we did it 2 1/2 years ago, and we probably weren't the first.  The point of using it for AEC candidates is so they don't have so many people failing in phase training, which I've heard was upwards of 50% for that trade before they had the selection.  It'll be interesting to see if having the test cuts down on that.


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## LOLslamball (14 Feb 2012)

biggs said:
			
		

> Glad to hear you passed.  If your mom was drilled you on that stuff when you were in grade school, I'll bet you weren't thanking her for it at the time.
> 
> They surely had been beta testing it for a while since we did it 2 1/2 years ago, and we probably weren't the first.  The point of using it for AEC candidates is so they don't have so many people failing in phase training, which I've heard was upwards of 50% for that trade before they had the selection.  It'll be interesting to see if having the test cuts down on that.



You bet, looking back on it I think I only hated it like half the time....but in the moment I probably didn't enjoy much of it at all.

I also heard something about them tweaking the training.  I know for a fact that VFR, IFR and Weapons are separated much sooner than they used to be.  I heard (which may or may not be true) that they have tried to break it more into sections, so instead of flunking the whole course, students can just re-do the part they failed.

Either way it still will be extremely hard and it is a long way down the road for me. (hopefully)


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## snyper21 (11 Apr 2012)

I am interested to know considering the changes made to the AEC selection process at Trenton if this induces any effect/change on the pilot testing portion done at ASC. Does anyone know if the simulator portion is still the only test that evaluates your suitability for the pilot trade, or is there computer based testing that counts towards your total score, and determines in part whether you pass ASC?


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## BullseyeTex (19 Apr 2012)

Hi all.

First off what a great recource these forums are.  I have really enjoyed reading them and appreciate all you members that take the time to share your knowledge with us.  Thank you.

I have gone through my interview/medical etc. for pilot and have made it to point where I am now waiting to hear when I will be scheduled for ASC.  I found an older post regarding the simulators and the instrument layout, but was curious if it is still the same.  The post mentioned that the panel was a C-172 panel.  Is that still the case?  Haven't been able to find anything else on it as yet.

I've got the gist of ASC, crosscheck, relax, follow instructions, and that prior flying experience doesn't necessarily help at all.  Would be good to know what the panel layout is though out of curiosity.  It's been a very long road for me to get here.  Applied when I was 18 years old for pilot, only to find out I got sunk by a minor vision issue.  Pretty crushing considering it was all I had ever wanted to do.  Went on to become a biologist.  That was 22 years ago and now I've come full circle.  Yup, I'm 40 (just turned) and am still rarin to go!  Not going to put all my eggs in this basket, but I'm ecstatic to have finally progressed to ASC and if that's where it ends then so be it, but I want to make sure I do as much research and get as much info as I can.

Funny, I have a bunch of Navy folks to thank for this.  I got to talking to them here in Victoria and they informed me about the changes in the eye sight standards and that age wasn't really a factor, and here I am.   ;D

At any rate, thanks to those that post on here and thanks for any information you provide.  Maybe I'll see some of you around sometime.


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## LOLslamball (19 Apr 2012)

Glad to hear you're finally getting to Aircrew Selection.....but you've posted in the wrong thread. This one is for AEC Aircrew Selection, not Pilot Aircrew Selection.

Good Luck


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## LCIS101 (27 Apr 2012)

Hi all I just wanted to let everyone know that I got my my offer for ROTP as an AEC! Thanks for all the answers I got through this forum!


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## matthew1786 (27 Apr 2012)

AEC said:
			
		

> Hi all I just wanted to let everyone know that I got my my offer for ROTP as an AEC! Thanks for all the answers I got through this forum!



Congrats! But your previous posts suggest that you applied for NCM?


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## aesop081 (27 Apr 2012)

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> Congrats! But your previous posts suggest that you applied for NCM?



in 2010. We are in 2012.

It helps if you check dates.


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## matthew1786 (27 Apr 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> in 2010. We are in 2012.
> 
> It helps if you check dates.



 :facepalm:


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