# Earning Loss Benefit ( ELB )



## GreenBarret01

ELB is paid while in rehab or until one is able to work. It terminates at the age of 65.

There are stories that ELB is canceled before one completes rehab since VAC decides that you are good to go.
Its also very rare to go past two years with SISIP.


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## the 48th regulator

This is not a forum for Legion hall stories, and Innuendos.

Your "Veiled" Posts trying to agitate the masses are weak.  Start your own forum, or blog to do this.  educate yourself first.

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff


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## Michael OLeary

GreenBarret01 said:
			
		

> ELB is paid while in rehab or until one is able to work. It terminates at the age of 65.
> 
> There are stories that ELB is canceled before one completes rehab since VAC decides that you are good to go.
> Its also very rare to go past two years with SISIP.



Can you provide links to the regulations for these?  What are your current sources for the official documents, so that someone else's starting point, if they are interested, isnt just _"a rumour they saw posted on army.ca."_


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## Michael OLeary

The following details have been provided by the original poster:



> "ELB is paid while in rehab or until one is able to work."
> "First, by amending regulations, the government will establish a minimum pre-tax income of $40,000 a year for Veterans who can no longer work and for those who are in rehabilitation."
> http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=department/press/viewrelease&id=1042
> 
> "It terminates at the age of 65."
> "However, e recently proposed $1,000 catastrophic award, the ELB, CPP disability and the SISIP LTD loss replacement payments all cease at the age of 65."
> http://homecomingvets.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/veterans-incensed-at-latest-vac-backtracking-on-public-promises-both-versions-captured-here/
> 
> There are stories that ELB is canceled before one completes rehab since VAC decides that you are good to go.
> 
> First of all, I mentioned that there are stories and that is why I created a Poll to get to the bottom of it.
> 
> "Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB) is a taxable monthly benefit that equals 75% of gross pre-release salary, .... ELB can be provided on a temporary basis during a period of participation in an approved Rehabilitation program, or until age 65, if deemed “Totally and Permanently Incapacitated” for the purpose of suitable and gainful employment, or until the day of the Veteran’s non service related death if Veteran has not reached age 65."
> 
> I have heard stories before and I have seen it on here as well that it's not you that decides when you are rehabilitated. I will try to find the link here and send it to you.
> 
> Its also very rare to go past two years with SISIP.
> Medically released member automatically get 2 years %75 pre-release salary. To go past 2 years one has to be "Totally disabled".
> Being an insurance company, its very difficult to prove "total disability" and that is why its rare to go past 2 years with SISIP.
> I am pretty sure we would have heard of stories if the Poll lived since I have heard of some.
> 
> "How long can I receive LTD benefits for?
> 
> If you are medically released, your initial benefits terminate 24 months after your effective date of release. Medical reviews will be conducted at 12 and 18 months to determine your eligibility for continued benefits beyond the initial 24-month period. As long as you qualify as totally disabled, you may be eligible for continued benefits up to your 65th birthday.
> 
> If you are released for reasons other than medical and you qualify as totally disabled you can receive benefits. Medical reviews are conducted once per year. You may be eligible for continued benefits up to your 65th birthday, as long as you qualify as totally disabled."
> http://www.sisip.ca/en/Insurance_e/ltd_e.asp#2





> "Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB) is a taxable monthly benefit that equals 75% of gross pre-release salary, .... ELB can be provided on a temporary basis during a period of participation in an approved Rehabilitation program, or until age 65, if deemed “Totally and Permanently Incapacitated” for the purpose of suitable and gainful employment, or until the day of the Veteran’s non service related death if Veteran has not reached age 65."
> 
> http://legion.ca/_PDF/SBureau/PolicyAd_1_e.pdf


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## Michael OLeary

The following has been provided by BinRat:



> I can tell you he is for the part correct, in that ELB does end if you complete the Rehab program, now are you all out of funds no, cause you can then get
> other support called Canadian Forces Income Support, again which is VIA VAC, So to start, again, you can keep this to your self, and or if he replies at least
> you'll have some answers....
> 
> Now here is a LINK to Parliament where you can read about
> ELB which is Chapter 21, Section 18, and I'll just quote the part.. So 18.(3) states
> 
> Duration of benefit
> (3) Subject to subsection (4) and section 21, the earnings loss benefit is payable to a veteran until the earlier of
> 
> (a) the day on which the veteran completes the rehabilitation plan or the vocational assistance plan,
> (b) the day on which the rehabilitation plan or the vocational assistance plan is canceled, and
> (c) the day on which the veteran attains the age of 65 years.
> 
> So, yes if you complete the rehab program and are able to work you can loose ELB, but as I said there is other Support which is this Canadian Forces Income Support which you can find right Here and it states the following
> 
> You may qualify for Canadian Forces Income Support if you:
> 
> * are a CF Veteran who no longer qualifies for Earnings Loss Benefits and you:
> o successfully completed the Rehab Program;
> o need financial help because your household income is not enough to meet your basic needs;
> o are looking for a suitable job but have not been able to find one; and
> o live in Canada
> * no longer qualify for Earnings Loss Benefits, because you:
> o have reached the age of 65; or
> o are able to return to work.
> 
> As for stories about VAC canceling before one completes rehab, well only if you don't do what they want, as in Don't go to Appointments, and or fail to do something they as you to do in response to what you should be doing, or lack of, then VAC does have the power to cancel cause your NOT following the program, Have I heard of any, No
> 
> Have I heard of someone personally canceling rehab, Ahh ya, I told them to shove the rehab up the , cause I was so sick and tired of every appointment filling out this form or that form, and or doing this questionnaire, it was endless, and of course they said, well you'll loose ELB I said fine, but I'll keep my sanity, cause everyone kept asking the same question and it's like I've answered this 10 times already, Like don't you get info from VAC, So ya i lost it one day, and said enough was enough, and this was 2 year's into it.
> 
> And for the 2nd part, SISIP, it was, back before the NVC that SISIP was for 2 year's, at 75% of your pay, and that if after your 2 year's, if you were determined to be permanent disability, and or actually totally disabled I think the wording was, then yes you can get SISIP for life or was it 65, but again in 93 when I was released heck Under the terminology of totally incapacitated  not to many people actually got on SISIP because you didn't qualify under there definition, as it is today, I can't answer that as to if people are getting it permanently SISIP that is.
> 
> Anyhow how that might help, or be of some information and see if the person greenBarret01 replies to your closing of that post.


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## Michael OLeary

I will reopen this thread for continued discussion of and posting of FACTS and SOURCES.  Opinions, innuendo and empty posts will be removed by staff.  The subject of veterans' benefits is confusing enough without people getting misled by half-remembered or outdated details, or emotional responses.  Keep in mind, IT DOES NOT MATTER if you like or dislike any of these benefits or how they are presented - what you FEEL about the situation does not help someone else understand it, or help guide them to get a benefit they deserve, or to work at getting benefits changed.  Find somewhere else to post your OPINIONS of the Government, officials, VAC or the benefits themselves.  Discuss facts here, and back them up with sources others can use as proper references.

Thank you.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## 25hz

I did a forum search for any info on this, and found nothing, so I'm posting this 

Through VA, vets can access this Earnings Loss Benefit program.  It's to help the vets find work if they can no longer get employment in their currently trained field due to medical issues related to military service.

VA pays up to 75% of your monthly salary and it is indexed to today's rate while you get your ducks in a row to get a new career started.  VA takes the 75% figure, subtracts the amount of your military pension per month, and then tops up the rest.

This program also includes retraining if necessary and it depends on a number of factors, specific to each individual, on how much VA will pay for retraining, and how long the vet stays on the program.  They can/will also pay for any equipment needed for the retraining, like hard hats, coveralls, work boots, books, etc.

The important thing to note, that VA doesn't seem to be interested in telling the vets, is that the target goal is a MINIMUM yearly income of $40,000 (roughly $20/hr or about $2000 net/month).  This might not seem like a lot, but in this labour market, it's pretty good, especially if you are also getting a military pension and an older style VA monthly pension.  So, for any that are in the program, or join it, if they try to shove you out the program's door with anything less than that figure, mention the $40,000 mandated figure 

Just a FYI for anyone that didn't know the program existed, because after 13 years of dealing with VA - I just found out about it.


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## pinger206

25Hz...

    Thanks for the info, I could not find many experiences of others. I am in the midst of ELB which just started for me. I feel I am fortunate, but it really peeves me off that there are benefits available, but being aware of them, or applying for them is such a tricky pickle. In hindsight, I think a demandingly , pro-active approach is good to have. I could have been approved for ELB a long time ago but was not aware  Just like PSHCP, the health care plan. I didn't serve for 10, but I'm approved as it is an option under voc. rehab. But what a can of worms trying to get knowledgeable about that. 
    Worst of all, others who need these benefits, are applicable for them, but suffer by not being aware of them.
Knowledge is power but the VAC can be a litttle shy on informing us or being forthcoming inspite of what is/was available on their site. 

    Pinger206


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## Fishbone Jones

How do they calculate the Earnings Loss Benefit. Say, a Reservist Cpl, after returning from deployment stays with his unit for five years, on Cl A. On release, it's determined they have severe PTSD, as a result of their service. This has affected their civilian employment to the point they can no longer work, in any capacity. What does VAC base the Earning Loss Benefit on, if at all? Is it his civie employment rate or the military full time (Class C) rate at time of release?


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## Teager

RG I know that with the changes that were last made with your example even a CL A Cpl will make the minimum of $42K a year. This will come to $3029 a month after taxes. I don't believe they take your civi employment and what you made into consideration. I believe it's strictly based off your rank and your Class and then 75% of that but it can't go below the pay of a basic Cpl.

I think Blackberet will be able to provide a better answer tho as I"m not 100%


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## Fishbone Jones

Cheers


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## RobA

Just as an aside, Trudeau campaigned on pretty specific policies for veterans. One of them is raising the  Earnings Loss benefit from 70% to 90%.


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## PuckChaser

And we'll see if he does it, I won't hold my breath.


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## RobA

For sure. They are politicians after all. I'm optimistic though.

Its not like they made vague promises, they made very specific policy goals. Not to mention Trudeau was elected on a "change" platform, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt .

Here's an excerpt from a G & M article today:

"The Liberals also promised to invest an additional $100-million a year to expand support for families who are caring for veterans with physical or mental-health issues. And they pledged to expand access to the permanent impairment allowance for veterans with career-ending injuries and to increase the earnings-loss benefit to 90 per cent of a veteran’s prerelease salary.

Asked if this means a bigger overall budget for Veterans Affairs, rather than just reallocating funds within the department’s envelope, Mr. Hehr said only that the Liberals will “do what’s necessary to fill our promises” and he would ensure the money that’s necessary is there for former soldiers."


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## Wookilar

So, if the ELB is raised to 90%, what about SISIP? Can you "opt-out" of SISIP and proceed directly to VAC?


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## Teager

Wookilar said:
			
		

> So, if the ELB is raised to 90%, what about SISIP? Can you "opt-out" of SISIP and proceed directly to VAC?



I have a feeling the government would push to have SISIP match the 90% I could be wrong tho.


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## flashman

recceguy said:
			
		

> How do they calculate the Earnings Loss Benefit. Say, a Reservist Cpl, after returning from deployment stays with his unit for five years, on Cl A. On release, it's determined they have severe PTSD, as a result of their service. This has affected their civilian employment to the point they can no longer work, in any capacity. What does VAC base the Earning Loss Benefit on, if at all? Is it his civie employment rate or the military full time (Class C) rate at time of release?



For a PRes injured on Cl C service, it's 75% of their monthly salary at the end of the contract on which they were injured. No less than $42,426 as mentioned. 

Since there's no CPP or other deductions, 75% of gross is pretty much what they would have been paid monthly at the time.


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## blackberet17

Sorry guys, been super busy of late.



> *Monthly Imputed Income - Reserve Force Veterans*
> For the purposes of subsections 8(1), 9(1) and section 19 of the Act, the MII of a Veteran released from the Reserve Force is dependent on the class of service at the time of the injury or disease which lead to the Veteran’s release, or the event that lead to the health problem creating a barrier to re-establishment was incurred, contracted or aggravated.
> 
> The MII will be the greater of:
> 
> 
> the Veteran’s MMS (edit: Monthly Military Salary) at the time of release from the service in which the Veteran’s the injury or disease which lead to the Veteran’s release, or the event that lead to the health problem creating a barrier to re-establishment occurred, adjusted until the benefit is payable; and
> 
> the MMS for a basic corporal in the standard pay group at the time the benefit is payable.



and



> In the case of Regular Force Veterans, Class “C”, Class “B” and Class A Reserve Force Veterans, the MMS used to determine the MII is generally the monthly military salary at the time of release, or at the time of completion of the period of service during which the injury or illness occurred.



Hope that's of some help. It's not my area of expertise, so I'm quoting current (to 01 Apr 15) policy docs.


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## Fishbone Jones

blackberet17 said:
			
		

> Sorry guys, been super busy of late.
> 
> and
> 
> Hope that's of some help. It's not my area of expertise, so I'm quoting current (to 01 Apr 15) policy docs.



Cheers


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## 3VPspecialty

With the proposed increase from 75% to 90% how does that affect those already on the program? 
When / If the increase in pay is approved does it include everyone? So if I'm already at 75% do I automatically get increased? Or do you have to be assessed and approved for the higher percentage??

Thanks!


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## blackberet17

The Government announcement was vague on the details about the increase, far as I can find in reading the announcements and the bill in parliament.

There is nothing yet drafted and available from VAC following the Government announcement, most likely because the bill is still not through final reading, etc. If and when the bill passes (I think it's Bill C-12, but don't quote me), then policy will be developed/drafted and released.


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## Nudibranch

BILL C-12: An Act to amend the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. It had its first reading in March.

Full text of bill here, if interested:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=8168978


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## RobA

It appears to come into effect Oct 1 and yes, I'm sure it will be done for everyone automatically. You'll just get more on your end Oct pay


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## 3VPspecialty

RobA said:
			
		

> It appears to come into effect Oct 1 and yes, I'm sure it will be done for everyone automatically. You'll just get more on your end Oct pay




Thanks, this is what I was looking for.


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## Teager

Guess there still not getting it. This is probably a sign of things to come and really not a surprise.




> Ottawa imposes unequal increases in benefits for injured veterans
> GLORIA GALLOWAY
> OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail
> Published Tuesday, May 31, 2016 9:48PM EDT
> Last updated Wednesday, Jun. 01, 2016 7:33AM EDT
> 
> The federal government is increasing the amount it pays to veterans who are so incapacitated they can no longer work, but many of those who currently make the least will get raises of just a couple percentage points while those at higher ranks will get 20 per cent more.
> 
> The unequal adjustments are part of a deliberate attempt by the Liberal government to ensure that those who are discharged from the lower ranks after being injured in the line of duty make less money than soldiers who are still actively serving.
> 
> To do that, the government will essentially demote some veterans to a rank below the one they held when they left the military – something that the veterans say is not only unfair but humiliating.
> 
> 
> “And they are only doing it for the bottom ranks,” said Don Leonardo, the founder of the advocacy group Veterans Canada who, because he retired 20 years ago as a master corporal, will be among those affected. “Why would you pick on the most vulnerable?”
> 
> The Earnings Loss Benefit pays those veterans who are “totally and permanently incapacitated” 75 per cent of what they were making on the day they were released from the Armed Forces until they reach the age of 65.
> 
> In 2011, the then-Conservative government said no one who is entitled to that benefit would receive less than $40,000 annually, which was then 75 per cent of the salary of a basic corporal. That provided a substantial boost, especially to those who were injured in places such as Bosnia, Somalia and Yugoslavia and who were discharged at salaries far below what their successors were making as a result of significant raises in the late 1990s and over the past decade.
> 
> But for years, veterans advocates and politicians have said 75 per cent is insufficient.
> 
> The Liberals promised during last year’s election campaign to invest an additional $40-million annually to provide the permanently injured veterans with 90 per cent of their prerelease salary. It was a commitment they kept in their first budget, with changes that are slated to take effect in October if the budget legislation passes without amendments. But there is a hitch.
> 
> The Liberals say the minimum payments will be based on the current salary of a senior private, even if the disabled soldier left the military at a higher rank.
> 
> The government says on its website that this is being done in the interest of fairness. “To do otherwise,” it explains, “would mean that some veterans receiving the benefits could be making more than their comrades on active duty.”
> 
> When asked to explain why it is so important to ensure that injured veterans do not make the equivalent of serving members of the Canadians Forces, the Veterans Affairs officials did not offer a direct response. “What is of paramount importance is that injured veterans have access to benefits that allow them to focus on their recovery,” they said in an e-mail.
> 
> Those former members of the Armed Forces who were discharged at salaries higher than the $49,449 that is currently paid to a senior private – the majors, the colonels, the generals and even the high-ranking non-commissioned officers – will not be affected by the rank reductions. Their Earnings Loss Benefits payments will climb by 20 per cent under the government’s plan, which, in some cases, will amount to tens of thousands of dollars.
> 
> But those at lower ranks, the mid-range non-commissioned officers who departed the military decades ago, and the reservists who were paid by the day, will get much less.
> 
> Mr. Leonardo, who was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder related to his service as a peacekeeper in the former Yugoslavia, and who makes $42,426 annually through the Earnings Loss Benefit, will get an increase of less than 5 per cent.
> 
> “If you can’t provide for your family, eventually you are going to give up,” said Mr. Leonardo. Politicians “keep talking about mental health. Well, if you can’t provide for your family, why would you even stick around. You feel like you’re not worth anything any more and they demote you a rank to private. It just gets worse and worse and worse.”
> 
> Veterans advocate Sean Bruyea said one of the harshest aspects of the government’s plan for veterans such as Mr. Leonardo is the loss of esteem.
> 
> “I know intellectually this is humiliating,” said Mr. Bruyea, a former captain and military intelligence officer who was also diagnosed with PTSD. “What’s Don’s value as a Canadian civilian now? His value is his memory of being honoured by Veterans Affairs. How do they honour him? They say, ‘We are going to demote you for no reason whatsoever other than to save money.’”
> 
> Cathay Wagantall, a Conservative MP who is her party’s deputy critic for Veterans Affairs, said she is trying to amend the budget bill to protect the lower-income disabled veterans. “I don’t have an answer for why they are choosing to do it this way,” Ms. Wagantall said of the government.
> 
> Irene Mathyssen, the NDP critic, said it is clear that the higher ranked officers will benefit the most. “And those poor guys at the bottom get very, very small increases,” Ms. Mathyssen said. “When you start to crunch the numbers, it’s Liberal voodoo.”



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-imposes-unequal-increases-to-benefits-for-injured-veterans/article30227709/?cmpid=rss1&google_editors_picks=true


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## gryphonv

"The Earnings Loss Benefit, which replaces the income of injured veterans while they are participating in a vocational or rehabilitation program run by Veterans Affairs Canada, will be increased to 90 per cent from 75 per cent of their prerelease salary. That benefit will also be indexed to inflation."

For members participating in SISIP Manulife VOC getting the 75%, will that automatically be topped up to 90% or will the other 15% have to come from VAC?


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## Teager

The rumour mill says SISIP is likely going to match the 90% but won't annouce any changes until the Bill is passed and made law.

Where the money comes from I don't know.


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## gryphonv

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/news/vac-responds/just-the-facts/earnings-loss-benefit

'Recent reports suggest that the Government is shortchanging Veterans with proposed changes to the Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB). I would like to correct some misinterpretations of the improvements we delivered in Budget 2016.

Our budget allocates $5.6 billion to improving Veterans’ benefits. Out of this $5.6 billion, $2.6 billion was allocated to increasing the Earnings Loss Benefit from 75% of a Veteran’s pre-release salary to 90% of that salary. Every ELB-eligible Veteran will receive more as a result of these changes.

The Earnings Loss Benefit is a temporary measure that provides financial security to injured Veterans undergoing rehabilitation as a result of a service-related injury. It is but part of a suite of benefits available to facilitate a successful return to work outside the Canadian Armed Forces. When an injured Veteran is deemed permanently unable to work, other supports are also available—including the Career Impact Allowance—which compensates for the loss of potential earnings.

No Veteran will be, or has been demoted to a rank below the one held when he or she left the military. In some cases, they will receive more than 90% of their pre-release salary. Changes in Budget 2016 mean the minimum Earnings Loss Benefit payable will be $44,496 per year. Veterans will get 90% of their pre-release salary, or the minimum, whichever is greater.

The Earnings Loss Benefit is not provided in isolation. Veterans receive a holistic suite of services and supports, including the Career Impact Allowance and Disability Allowance—benefits that were also significantly increased in Budget 2016 by $3 billion. Veterans Affairs Canada also pays for physical rehabilitation, vocational retraining and counselling for medically released Veterans. Veterans receive these supports as they focus on recovery, wellness and finding a new purpose.'

I have a confusing question for this. While under LTD from SISIP manulife, the current formula is 75%. The 90% top up is suppose to start in October 2016. But I can't seem to get a straight answer from SISIP or VAC where the extra 15% is coming from. From my understanding the amount from SISIP through LTD is 75% and the extra 15% will come from VAC. Both VAC and SISIP Manulife have refereed me to each other to get an answer. Either the information isn't distributed to the companies and it's going to be a real shit show come October, or both sides are still working out the details and don't want to say anything.

It seems pretty bad, 3 months out and nobody has a straight answer.


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## Teager

That's the big question is will those under SISIP see 90%? And I don't think anyone knows the answer yet. A few months ago I saw Veterans groups asking the government for clarification on this I believe it may have been the Veterans Ombudsman asking. They never got an answer at that meeting.

I guess we will see what happens come October. Do make sure you are ELB elegiable and have applied for it even if under SISIP as that may be the key to receiving the top up or not.


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## Teager

I was wondering if SISIP doesn't make any changes wrt to ELB 90% but VAC gives 15% to those who are ELB elegiable but on SISIP would SISIP be able to claw back your LTD by 15% saying your making more than 75%?


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## gryphonv

Yeah I think its going to be a cluster come  October either way, and may take several months to sort out. 

My understanding is while under Sisip LTD any extra income you make is clawed back at 50%. Until you hit 100% of your pre release salary. Then it is clawed back at 100%.

It won't go over well if they claw back half of that extra 15% if VAC is paying it. 

I honestly don't see Sisip LTD paying the 15% because their program is an insurance based which we all pay into. It's hard to make insurance based benefits increase without increasing premiums for every current member.


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## brihard

SISIP LTD needs to just go away and die. A private corporation should not be depended upon in the delivery of basic financial benefits to veterans.


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## gryphonv

Brihard said:
			
		

> SISIP LTD needs to just go away and die. A private corporation should not be depended upon in the delivery of basic financial benefits to veterans.



I kinda agree with this. Although I'm having a good experience over all with SISIP LTD, not without issues though.

I don't really understand the true benefit as there is a lot of double coverage between SISIP LTD and VAC with benefits. So from the outside it looks like we are paying premiums for a program we already have covered under the Veterans Charter.

With that said though, they are much easier to deal with than VAC, you get answers much more quickly (a day or a few days, vs Weeks or Months).


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## scottytrek

Hi everyone!

There has been a lot of talk regarding the increase coverage for LTD eligible member (from 75 to 90 % coverage).  This bill has yet to be finalize in parlement but should be ready by Oct 1st of this year since it has passed two consecutive reading in parlement. 
Now, the question remains... Who will pay for this increase?  Sisip or Vac?  Well, if you look at the recent 20% increase SISIP disability cost on your pay stub (this represent a few dollars since July 01st - for example a Cpl would see is monthly cost go from app. 8$ to about 9.50$) it seems to indicate that SISIP will cover that increase.

Now ... Why did SISIP disability cost go up by exactly 20% ?  Well, if you increase the coverage of LTD from 75 to 90 % it represent a 20% increase in benefit.  The formula to calculate this is 75% (or 0.75) x 1.2 (20 % increase) = 0.9 or 90% .
I think that SISIP knows that the increase benefit to veteran will cost more money in the future.  By increasing their premium three months ahead of time, they are ensuring that they will be able to cover that increase.

Well, this my theory since it all has to be confirmed but the number sure add up.


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## RobA

The bill has passed. It was introduced as C-12, but it got moved into C-15 (I think) and it's now passed.


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## RobA

Sooooo My Vac Acct now shows the payment for ELB  that will be deposited October 28th under the 'current benefits' window and it's no different. The same amount Ive gotten every month this year.

Thought the bump to 90% was supposed to take effect October?


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## Teager

RobA said:
			
		

> Sooooo My Vac Acct now shows the payment for ELB  that will be deposited October 28th under the 'current benefits' window and it's no different. The same amount Ive gotten every month this year.
> 
> Thought the bump to 90% was supposed to take effect October?



Rob shoot them a message about it and let us know what they have to say. I'll be interested to know. Perhaps because it doesn't take effect till Oct 1st the changes won't show until then.


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## gryphonv

Just got an update from VAC, so looks like as expected, VAC will be topping up the 75%.


> On October 1, 2016 several changes to the Earnings Loss Benefit will come into
> effect as a result of proposals included in the 2016 Budget. These changes
> include:
> 
> • increasing the Earnings Loss Benefit from 75% to 90% of recipients' adjusted
> military salary at the time of release, resulting in a minimum total annual income
> of $44,496.00, including income from other sources; and
> 
> • fully indexing military salaries to reflect actual cost of living increases.
> 
> We are pleased to inform you that we will begin re-calculating your Earnings Loss
> Benefit as soon as the new rules go into effect on October 1, 2016.
> 
> • If you are currently in receipt of a monthly Earnings Loss Benefit payment,
> we already have the information we need to re-calculate your benefit under the
> new rules. We will advise you of any changes to your benefit amount beginning
> with your October payment.
> 
> • If you are eligible for the Earnings Loss Benefit, but not currently in receipt
> of a monthly payment, we will contact you in October with further instructions
> regarding the information we need to calculate your potential benefit under the
> new rules.
> 
> If you have questions, please call us toll free at 1-866-522-2122.


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## RobA

I got the same letter, so that's good news.

Incidentally, for anyone interested, I've calculated my own, and I'll get an extra $464 after taxes per month. I got out as a cpl 3.


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## McG

From the CAF:


> CANFORGEN 161/16 CMP 078/16 191402Z SEP 16
> COVERAGE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CAF AND LONG-TERM DISABILITY AND VAC EARNINGS LOSS BENEFIT
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> 1.  THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO MAKE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES (CAF) MEMBERS AWARE THAT AS OF OCTOBER 1, 2016 THE CAF LONG-TERM DISABILITY (LTD) PLAN AND VETERANS AFFAIRS CANADA S (VAC) EARNINGS LOSS BENEFIT (ELB) WILL BE CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY
> 
> 2.  THE CAF S LTD PLAN AND VAC S ELB BOTH PROVIDE VETERANS WITH INCOME SUPPORT BENEFITS. VAC S ELB WILL INCREASE FROM 75 PERCENT TO 90 PERCENT OF A VETERAN S PRE-RELEASE SALARY. THIS VAC ELB BENEFIT WILL BE INDEXED SO THAT IT KEEPS PACE WITH INFLATION
> 
> 3.  CAF LTD WILL REMAIN AT 75 PERCENT AND EXISTING BENEFITS WILL NOT BE AFFECTED AND REMAINS AMONG THE BEST LTD PLANS OFFERED IN THE COUNTRY. THEREFORE, IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE ADDITIONAL BENEFIT, CAF LTD RECIPIENTS MUST APPLY TO VAC. EXISITING CAF LTD CLIENTS WILL BE PERSONNALY CONTACTED BY MANULIFE ABOUT THE PROCESS TO BE FOLLOWED
> 
> 4.  ALL CAF MEMBERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE RANGE OF CARE, COMPENSATION, AND FINANCIAL BENEFITS AVAILABLE TO THEM SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT BENEFITS PLAN OR PROGRAM WILL BEST SUPPORT THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES UPON BEING RELEASED
> 
> 5.  THE CAF AND VAC ARE TAKING STEPS TO SIMPLIFY FINANCIAL BENEFITS, FILL THE GAPS, AND ADDRESS THE BENEFITS THAT ARE NOT FULLY MEETING THE NEEDS OF RELEASING CAF MEMBERS AND VETERANS. WHILE WE HAVE BEGUN IMPORTANT WORK ON MANY INITIATIVES, WE RECOGNIZE THERE IS MUCH MORE TO BE DONE, AND WE WILL CONTINUE IN OUR EFFORTS TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS


----------



## Lightguns

RobA said:
			
		

> I got the same letter, so that's good news.
> 
> Incidentally, for anyone interested, I've calculated my own, and I'll get an extra $464 after taxes per month. I got out as a cpl 3.



good for you!


----------



## RobA

Lightguns said:
			
		

> good for you!



No need to be a knob. I meant it as a reference point,  for anyone wondering how much they'd get but didn't want to do the math.


----------



## maniac

Well here is the skinny,  some people are not going to be happy.  Not sure this answers the question on sisip but op brass should be happy but the troops are getting screwed

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/disparity-in-earnings-loss-benefit-for-disabled-veterans-explained/article30256008/


----------



## brihard

Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever. The over-complexity and duplication of services/benefits is one of the fundamental flaws of our current scheme of benefits. A ground up harmonization and rationalization of veterans' benefitsis needed, with separate recognitiion for pain and suffering, and economic impacts (lost income, reduced income growth potential, actual costs/expenses resulting from injury/illness). There's needs to be harmonization between different government departments, and common definition of disability for benefits and taxation purposes. It's needlessly complex right now.


----------



## Wookilar

Just spoke to my Manulife case manager:

Manulife *will not* be reducing their payments due to any increase in ELB payments from VAC. The founding SISIP docs state that "all sources of income" will be used in the calculation of any top up amount to 75%, but SISIP is not regarding the increase by VAC to be "income."

So that's good.

It does make me curious on what CRA will call the 90% top-up???

On the subject of Manulife/SISIP. Manulife is just the contractor and while YMMV, I have a good working relationship with both my case manager and my voc rehab coord and as an organization they hae been much easier to deal with than VAC or BPA. SISIP is a very old program with deep pockets that is not going to go anywhere anytime soon due to legislation. SISIP definitely needs to change their model and I agree totally that there needs to be a rationalization of veterans' benefits. There's so much crap been added since the end of the Boer War, soooo much of it no longer relevant, but it's all tied together. To reset everything, you have to start from scratch which means shutting down everything.

And all the politicians would see is the $billions$ it would take to just restart the programs let alone sustain them. And reshuffling capabilities means moving offices, changing position qualifications, new demands in a new system. The unions won't want that either.

Which is also the problem with the life-long pensions, but we already know that. Why the MSM doesn't seem to know that is another question entirely.

Wook


----------



## kratz

Wookilar said:
			
		

> <SNIP>  Why the MSM doesn't seem to know that is another question entirely.
> 
> Wook



The MSM knows...but it does not sell advertising space.


----------



## Pieman

> Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever.


There are definitely some benefits to having a profit motivated corp handling some files. Dominantly I suspect they can provide more efficient and effective support for those who qualify than the government can in many cases. (At the expense of those who's files are rejected, of course) Remember people who get SISP insurance paid into the program out of their own pocket, just like any other insurance company.

However, on both the private and government side, there is a bias in the fact that they are the ones who decided who qualifies and who doesn't. Perhaps taking that decision out of their hands via some independant organization? Perhaps a non-profit organization that will make the decision on benefits, and the government pays out what they decide. VAC and SISIP handle this independently of each other right now. However, both are motivated to pay out as little as possible at the starting line.  Just a thought.


----------



## 3VPspecialty

Just a heads up, I logged into my VAC account and my ELB payments have been automatically adjusted showing my next month's payment.

So it's worth a look to see and plan from there with the new payments.


----------



## BinRat55

When I was going through the retirement process, I was given the Manulife paperwork with clear instructions on how to fill them out. Do this part, give the rest to your doc. Someone from Manulife will be in touch. I don't remember anyone explaining the difference between LTD and ELB. Yesterday I got a rude awakening. VAC says i'm not entitled to the 15% top up as I am not in receipt of ELB. That kinda sucks.

For those of you in the process right now and are reading this - there IS a difference between ELB and LTD!

My loss!


----------



## Pieman

> VAC says i'm not entitled to the 15% top up as I am not in receipt of ELB. That kinda sucks.



You may want to consider applying for the ELB. You may qualify and be approved for it, but won't receive payments for it unless you come off LTD for some reason. Think of it as a backup plan. 

If you do qualify for ELB and are receiving LTD, I'm wondering if you could then make the case that you should receive the top up too?

Would have to talk to a VAC case manager about that.


----------



## Wookilar

I would second that. The application for ELB is fairly straightforward and can be done online via MyVac account.


----------



## Lightguns

Brihard said:
			
		

> Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever. The over-complexity and duplication of services/benefits is one of the fundamental flaws of our current scheme of benefits. A ground up harmonization and rationalization of veterans' benefitsis needed, with separate recognitiion for pain and suffering, and economic impacts (lost income, reduced income growth potential, actual costs/expenses resulting from injury/illness). There's needs to be harmonization between different government departments, and common definition of disability for benefits and taxation purposes. It's needlessly complex right now.



When I was released, Man Life was the only benefits on time and on target.  Over  10 months of misadministration of my pension and benefits, that 1400 bucks from SISIP kept my head above water.  I thank them!


----------



## Wookilar

Manulife is not the problem, as they were the same for me. I had my SISIP payment super quick while I waited for my pension and severance.

The issue is how SISIP and VAC purport to do the same things, have different criteria for almost everything, and actually block access to other programs offered by each other. Too much overlap, too much wasted time, effort and money.


----------



## Stressed Right Out

I'm doing search all over, can't seem to find the answer to my questions. So here it goes, please be patient with me, this is all new to me.

1. Diagnosed with PTSD, got my 10%. Been told I will be reassessed Jan 2017, that being said, do they use the % my shrink originally gave me when I first got this diagnosis (76% with high scale depression and anxiety)?

2. What happen if someone cannot go to school upon release? (I can't work and I'm not recommended to attend school right now) Is that education pushed until member can?

3. After the 2yrs with SISIP, VAC kicks in. What happen if someone can only find P/T work or can only work part time (let's say 10hrs/wk), are we thrown to the curb, Hasta la Vista type, or is this ELB is a top up we qualify for until 65yrs of age?

4. Not a question, just want to say thank you for any assistance as this has been a major stressor.


----------



## brihard

Hey, first off, you're doing the right thing reaching out to look for supports on this. Youve got a lot of stuff ahead of yo right now.

ELB exists to protect your income if your ability to work is impacted by service related disability. It will keep you at 90% pre-release salary. If you work, the earned employment income will be offset from your ELB. I don' know the exact formula, but basically thy will top up whatever you do earn from work to your pre-release salary at 90%. You wont' be kicked to the curb. It goes til 65. If you can only work part time, that's fine.

Not sure how the reassessment will go, but VAC makes their own call on that. Get as much documentation as possible from medical pros. I suggest using a Royal Canadian Legion service officer to help you prepare your claims- they are paid employees whose full time work is helping vets with claims. http://www.legion.ca/we-can-help/contact-a-service-officer/

Not sure if you're on Facebook, but there are a couple support groups that may be of use:

Veterans 3B Support GRoup - group for medically released or releasing CAF members/vets. https://www.facebook.com/groups/432709853584762/
Send Up The Count - 9500 member group for mental helath in the CAF and veterans community. We have lots of members who have been through the process with PTSD. https://www.facebook.com/groups/sendupthecount/


You've got a long road ahead of yuo, but youve got a lot of brothers and sisters fighting the fight along side you. Reach out and connect with them. You've got this.


----------



## Teager

SISIP will ask numerous times if you want to go to school this is not obligatory and you can tell them no thanks. Due to your medical issues after the 2 years on SISIP they will determine if you stay on SISIP or if not you will move over to VAC ELB and voc rehab. You will have a case manager which will help work with you in what you can and can't do and come up with a plan that best helps and works for you. If your condition improves and you feel you can do some schooling that option is there with the VAC voc rehab.

Mostly you will have the case manager to help guide you through everything and will come to your home for appointments if you choose.


----------



## Pieman

> SISIP will ask numerous times if you want to go to school this is not obligatory and you can tell them no thanks.



Mind you, free edumacation is worth its weight in gold. If you decide you are up for it then grab it. (When/if ready/able to)


----------



## Dave1966

Yes as previously stated you are doing the right thing reaching out to others and asking questions and building a strong support network are all positive steps towards recovery.

I am also new to the VAC system myself just granted 10% this spring (2016) chronic PTSD depression anxiety etc. Plus another 10% for hearing loss started the rehab program collecting ELB since winter 2016 so ya I am still pretty fresh and kinda confused myself.

I have learned a lot from other peers on the forum this has been a great source of info for me probably the best actually! I find navigating the VAC website frustrating and I have a relatively new and young case manager that's still in training herself she has the attitude that the money I recieve is coming directly out of her purse? Actually many questions that I have asked her about entitlements and benefits I have learned about from others on the forum she doesn't even know exist this has caused many arguments but I am not the kinda person who backs down easy and I am not afraid to put her in her place. I don't use this as an excuse to be rude and abusive but at the end of the day they are public servants their job is to serve us answer our questions and ensure that we get all the benefits we are entitled . That's not to say all people that work for VAC are incompetent the majority of the people I have had to deal with so far have for the most part been very polite,helpful and compassionate.

I also highly recommend contacting your local Royal Canadian Legion branch and ask to be put in contact with a Provincial Services Officer. You do not have to be a Legion member to enlist there help. My experience in dealing with them has been nothing less than amazing. They did all my initial paper work applications and arranged all the nesasary medical appointments to start my disability processes. They are very helpful caring and understanding they are pros when it comes to navigating the VAC system and can answer most questions that my case manger can't or won't answer.


----------



## Staff Weenie

One of the best things you can do right now, is call your nearest Integrated Personnel Support Centre (IPSC), and ask to meet with a Services Coordinator. If you don't know which IPSC supports you, send me a PM, I'm the Deputy Ops O now for the Joint Personnel Support Unit.

As for the percentage that VAC will ultimately award, it's very hard to bracket, because there are so many variables that each case is unique. They will indeed obtain your health records, and review the comments from your Mental Health team. You will also be submitting forms, part of which give you the opportunity to comment on how it has impacted your daily living. Far too many people downplay the impact - we're soldiers, we suck it up, right???? But don't do that! VAC needs these details to make the best assessment. If you can't go on a bus, note it. Can't go shopping, write it down. Can't get it up? Can't hug your kids? Sweat like mad and change the sheets twice per night? Make sure every little detail on how your life has been impacted goes in there. That helps make a more accurate determination.

Then, reach out. You've already started, and that puts you ahead of too many others. Try looking into Operational Stress Injury Social Support (OSISS). It's a peer-based support group where you meet once every week or two, with people who 'get it'. I go every other week still, and it helps me to realize that I'm not fighting this alone. If you need help finding a group, go to OSISS.ca and contact them.

Ask for a Nurse Case Manager to be assigned (if they haven't already done so). Then ask if a Complexity Assessment is going to be done. If you are heading towards a 3b Release (medical), and you are deemed 'Complex', you can have an Integrated Transition Plan done at the local ITP. This is a multi-disciplinary Board that sits to see how to smooth your transition as much as possible. It has reps from Case Management (can they hand your care off to civilian systems safely?), SISIP (do you have a Voc Rehab plan?), VAC (are they ready for your file?), PSO (have they helped you in defining your post CAF education and career goals?). Your chain of command and even the Family Liaison Officer can be there if needed. They are there for you - let the team help work the issue, and take the stress.

I find my memory sometimes takes a nose-dive, so when you go to meetings, bring a trusted friend, or ask to record it on your smart-phone. That way, you can go home, relax, and re-listen to make sure you've got all the info.

There's going to be a lot of bumps in the road, but you're going to make it through this. There's lots of us here who are living with PTSD as well, don't ever be worried about reaching out for help when you need it.


----------



## Teager

So gotta say VAC processed this fast. I am on SISIP sent back the required forms the day after being notified thru the my VAC account. I recieved my top up to the 90% today did not think I would see anything till next month at the earliest.


----------



## Wookilar

I agree; I've had the same experience.

The only question I have, which has not been answered yet by VAC, is: The information on My VAC Account says that I have about $40 deductions....soooo, no income tax? Is this not taxable? Seems to me it should be, but I am not an income/non-income expert.


----------



## gryphonv

I've still haven't seen anything. They had my forms from manulife for almost 2 weeks but nothing yet. I'm not expecting it until later this month.


----------



## Wookilar

Quick update: everyone getting ELB will want to fill out  Revenue Canada TD1 form.

The income tax being deducted is only using the ELB amount NOT your total income (even though they have that info to figure out ELB...).

If you don't fix it now, you will be screwed tax time next year. I'm going to be bumping this up the VAC chain; seems like a really lazy way to do business.


----------



## Renegade68

I was approved for SISIP LTD in October 16 back dated to release date in August of 16. VAC received my application for ELB on 2 Sep. I was asked by VAC for permission to contact SISIP to determine my benefit. when I track my application the status has been in Step 3 for 4 weeks, but no one at VAC can tell me when a decision and/or when I might expect to see some jingle in my bank account. Has anyone else experienced this kind of delay and how long did it take for you to get resolution?
I will echo others comments on positive experience with SISIP, I'd be in a world of hurt without them.
Happy New Year all!


----------



## Tilap61

Renegate dont feel Bad. I send all my paper work to VAC on the 11 Oct. they approved my rehab on the 27 Oct. talked to my CM on the 28 Oct told me approved Rehab my ELB was being calculated. On Vac account I have been stuck in stage 3 ever since  for ELB. Called them last week and was told that once rehab approved they have to sent the ELB request to Charletown and that they received it on the 17 Nov. from  there it would take 6 to 8 weeks to get done because they are way behind. I guess at VAC adding substrating a a few numbers Is a pretty complicated and time consuming process.


----------



## Renegade68

Tilap, mine was received in Charlettown on 30 Nov. VAC tells me that "the service standard on ELB is 28 days, but because of increased applications 56 days is reality". So that makes me think I'll not hear anything until  at least 25 Jan. Oh well I guess it's "money in the bank" 
hope others are getting theirs processed quicker than this!


----------



## rand_d

Renegade68 said:
			
		

> Tilap, mine was received in Charlettown on 30 Nov. VAC tells me that "the service standard on ELB is 28 days, but because of increased applications 56 days is reality". So that makes me think I'll not hear anything until  at least 25 Jan. Oh well I guess it's "money in the bank"
> hope others are getting theirs processed quicker than this!


Mine was received on 9 Nov 2016, and I got my money yesterday, so 56 days is about right!


----------



## CampCricket

I received my top up this week. Looks like it's back dated to October 1st. On my VAC account online its listed as TEMPORARY INCOME LOSS benefit

I was medically released 12 months ago. My release salary was 62,232 MCpl pay
Looks like I'm getting $470 a month after tax of which only $32 is being held back. 

I'm greatful to receive the amount and my intent is not to complain - but I'm just curious as to how VAC calculated this because I don't see this as 15%.  I have no reference on my online account and I have no letter from VAC yet to explain this to me... so I'm just super curious on how they arrived at this calculation and what others are receiving. 

Any insight would be nice


----------



## BinRat55

CampCricket said:
			
		

> I received my top up this week. Looks like it's back dated to October 1st. On my VAC account online its listed as TEMPORARY INCOME LOSS benefit
> 
> I was medically released 12 months ago. My release salary was 62,232 MCpl pay
> Looks like I'm getting $470 a month after tax of which only $32 is being held back.
> 
> I'm greatful to receive the amount and my intent is not to complain - but I'm just curious as to how VAC calculated this because I don't see this as 15%.  I have no reference on my online account and I have no letter from VAC yet to explain this to me... so I'm just super curious on how they arrived at this calculation and what others are receiving.
> 
> Any insight would be nice



How many times and how many threads are you going to put this CampCricket? Trolling is not allowed...


----------



## Teager

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> How many times and how many threads are you going to put this CampCricket? Trolling is not allowed...



Well it's in the correct thread now.

CampCricket there was much uproar of the 15% increase as it did not equate to 15% for a lot of members mainly lower ranks. Some may even be getting more than 15%. At the end of the day it comes down to totalling 90% of your release pay.


----------



## CampCricket

I've made 10 posts in the five years of being a member to be told I'm trolling. Thanks a bunch. I won't bother posting questions here anymore (or offering advice on how to get results from VAC). Decided I was going to give back and contribute by sharing on this site... and get this type of response for accidentally posting in wrong thread and then reposting in the right one... don't need the drama. I am good at finding answers on my own.


----------



## the 48th regulator

CampCricket said:
			
		

> I've made 10 posts in the five years of being a member to be told I'm trolling. Thanks a bunch. I won't bother posting questions here anymore (or offering advice on how to get results from VAC). Decided I was going to give back and contribute by sharing on this site... and get this type of response for accidentally posting in wrong thread and then reposting in the right one... don't need the drama. I am good at finding answers on my own.




whoa whoah whoa,

Chill Winston.  Not everyone here wants you to leave.  I dig your posts.

Stay a while bredren.

Ourselves Alone

Tess


----------



## the 48th regulator

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> How many times and how many threads are you going to put this CampCricket? Trolling is not allowed...



Ease up on the man brother, you know that ain't good amigo. 

All is good, all is good.

Ourselves Alone

Tess


----------



## Renegade68

So, I sent a secure message through my VAC account asking for an update on the status of my claim. I received the following back from VAC, not the news I wanted to hear but, at least I have a better idea when I might learn something. (Names removed for privacy"

"Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure email services. Your ELB application is still in progress. The standard processing
time is 6 to 8 weeks from the service standard start date (Nov.30, 2016). Please follow up with us again first week of February.
Thank you for your patience. 
If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact us again via My VAC Account or our toll free number 1-866-522-2122. 
Sincerely, 
Contact Centre Analyst 
Veterans Affairs Canada"


----------



## Tilap61

Renegate I talk to my CM this morning on a different subject and I asked her about ELB. She mention it would be more like 8 weeks since they received lots of applications and that they have been on a skeleton crew due the the Xmas vacations. That said there is another guy see post a bit back who his request was received in Charletown on the 7 Nov and got his money in the bank at the 56 days mark so 8 weeks. Here what is frustrating with vac on vac account it tells you expect an answer after 4 weeks of receiving your application. Then you call they tell you 4 to six week. Then you call again and they say well wait a minute it is 6 to 8 weeks from the date it was received in Charlottown but nobody had mention that it takes another 4 weeks to process and get it to Charlottown . If the were to tell you right at the beginning 16 weeks then they probably wouldn't be so busy at their call centre.


----------



## Renegade68

Tilap61 said:
			
		

> Renegate I talk to my CM this morning on a different subject and I asked her about ELB. She mention it would be more like 8 weeks since they received lots of applications and that they have been on a skeleton crew due the the Xmas vacations. That said there is another guy see post a bit back who his request was received in Charletown on the 7 Nov and got his money in the bank at the 56 days mark so 8 weeks. Here what is frustrating with vac on vac account it tells you expect an answer after 4 weeks of receiving your application. Then you call they tell you 4 to six week. Then you call again and they say well wait a minute it is 6 to 8 weeks from the date it was received in Charlottown but nobody had mention that it takes another 4 weeks to process and get it to Charlottown . If the were to tell you right at the beginning 16 weeks then they probably wouldn't be so busy at their call centre.


Tilap, Agreed!


----------



## Tilap61

Renegate68 FYI my ELB showed up yesterday afternoon on my VAC account. So yes about 56 days. Just don't understand how they came up with the amount, it is much more then what I was expecting. I'll have to double check with them. So now it is just waiting and see how long it will take to get money in the bank.


----------



## Renegade68

That is good news Tilap, I hope you see the money in the bank soon. It's probably a good idea to confirm the amount, but I am glad it's more not less than you were expecting.
Cheers,


----------



## CampCricket

Looks like there are some glitches in the roll out of the top up. Prior to getting injured in Afghanistan, I held a full time DND position for over a decade and was a career reservist for over 25 years. I often took military leave from my civilian position. I did the same job in uniform as I do as a civilian... so DND is accommodating my injuries in the hopes that I can eventually return to full time hours... so I have earnings while on my LTD

As part of my accommodation, I work a couple days each week. I report the earnings to SISIP for my LTD. SISIP than adjusts my LTD by 50% of my earnings. 

I've only been out of the military for a year, so even though I qualify for ELB, I deal with SISIP for now. I got confirmation I qualified for the 15% top up. I filled out all the forms and included my information on my work accommodation. 

I started receiving my top up last week and the math did not look right. Looks like VAC is also deducting my earnings too - from the 15% top amount. They also mailed me forms to report my earnings to them. Don't these guys talk to SISIP at all. I already report that to them. 

To me - that is not right. I should be reporting my earnings to SISIP as long as I fall under their program... and this shouldn't affect my top up as I don't make enough earnings to come close to my former salary (as you can keep 50% of earnings until you hit you release pay rate, then they start clawing back 100% in excess of that amount. 

My case manager doesn't appear to be too knowledgeable. She thinks that I'm not entitled to keep any earnings and VAC is clawing back the other 50%. I asked her why there would be two different rules - one for LTD and one for ELB. also, from the VAC website I read that I'm allowed to keep 50% of earnings from employment up to my former release salary (just like LTD). To me - VAC and SISIP are acting independently not realizing that there is duplication here and only one of them should be handling my earnings reporting. 

Am I way off in my interpretation of how this works. Anyone got a good handle on this or in a similar position receiving the top up while have some employment earnings?


----------



## Teager

Unfortunately SISIP and VAC do not speak to each other. If they do you must sign a form allowing them to speak and it will be very specific as to what they can speak about so ensure the form covers everything. Privacy is a big deal so now no speaks to anyone without signed permission from you.

Ask to speak to someone in the ELB department to get things clarified. Although the programs are similar VAC and SISIP have different policy's and criteria. Thus I believe you will have to report earnings to both.


----------



## Renegade68

CC,
The form is a VAC 928, Consent for VAC to obtain personal info from 3rd parties which you can find under forms in "my VAC Account".  On mine, for them to contact SISIP, this is the wording I used " Verification of the monthly SISIP LTD amount payable in periods of earning Loss Benefit(ELB)eligibility. This consent remains in effect for the duration of ELB eligibility"

Hope this helps


----------



## Renegade68

So, today in my VAC account, my status went to "complete" on my application for ELB . I called my VAC CM, to see if he could see from his side what was going on, but he could not. He told me that I should see a letter in the next few days ( not sure if in VAC speak if that means weeks) telling me what the end result is. I am curious to see what the end figure will be as I see some of you saying you were getting less, and others saying more, than you anticipated.

Tilap, were you able to figure yours out?

Cheers,


----------



## Tilap61

Renegade FYI as soon as my ELB showed completed the amount showed up in the benefits I missed it a couple of times before I realized that I had to scroll down to see it. It is separate then my pension details. Anyway, I think I figured it out but the front line worker didn't agree so talk to my CM after a few minute of explaining she finally agree with me that the numbers don't add up told me to wit for the letter but I m in Texas for the winter so won't see that letter for a while so she sent a request to the ELB people to get in contact with me it's been 3 days and still waiting.still waiting.


----------



## Renegade68

Ok, it Showed up under benefits section late yesterday. Similar to you Tilap, the amount I see is higher than I thought it would be (about $200.00/month more). I left my CM a message, and hopefully he will be able to explain it to me. 
On the positive side at least something is happening! Now for the Disability awards, but I am already aware of the turtle like pace to expect on those!
Cheers,


----------



## Tilap61

200$ that about what I got to as too much as that is after tax. It almost look like they took the taxe on paper but did not actually took it out of the $ deposited in my bank account. Like I said my CM asked ELB people to contact me. That was last Thursday and I am still waiting.


----------



## Canadian-Sapper

So I started my disability claim in September 2016, that claim is for ptsd and is currently on step 3. I've been working with the osi clinic and have my first psychiatrist appointment in March. I've recently applied for the rehabilitation program and earnings loss benefit, and I'm wondering what my chances are of actually being approved?


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## Pieman

No one here is going to be able to answer that. When are more fully evaluated by a psychiatrist they may be able to give you their opinion. However, all decisions are made at VAC and no one will know until then. It will likely be many months before you get to that point. My rule of thumb is 6 months from submission to response for anything with VAC.


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## catalyst

If all documents for the rehabilitation program have been received, then rehabilitation program decisions are made within 2 weeks. It would very much depend on your individual medical file, but I would recommend calling the 1-866 number and asking.


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## Canadian-Sapper

I posted about the earning loss benefit previously but I don't think I was very clear in what I was asking, so I have a couple questions. The first one being, is the earning loss benefit a bi weekly pay or paid monthly, and also how long does it typically take to receive your first payment (I know these wait times vary) I'm just looking to see what other people have e experienced. 

I've asked my case manager and he said 6 to 8 weeks and that was the day I was approved. It just seems like waiting that long after approval is a bit much for ELB. Also I applied for the benefit and rehab January 21st and was approved Feb 7th.


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## Teager

Canadian-Sapper said:
			
		

> I posted about the earning loss benefit previously but I don't think I was very clear in what I was asking, so I have a couple questions. The first one being, is the earning loss benefit a bi weekly pay or paid monthly, and also how long does it typically take to receive your first payment (I know these wait times vary) I'm just looking to see what other people have e experienced.
> 
> I've asked my case manager and he said 6 to 8 weeks and that was the day I was approved. It just seems like waiting that long after approval is a bit much for ELB. Also I applied for the benefit and rehab January 21st and was approved Feb 7th.



You will be paid monthly the last day of the month. If you have MYVAC account you can see when the payments and the amount will be deposited. 

6 weeks is about right if you have been approved as of Feb 7th ( for ELB) expect payment Feb 27th. Sisip has about the same time line when you apply to them.


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## RobA

I understand the ELB is not meant to be permanent, but a guy I know says they're kicking him off. Obviously I dont know his exact situation and he may not be totally up front about whats going on, but it did get me thinking.

CAN VAC just end ELB? Im not talking about cases of fraud or anything, that's a different issue. I just mean, could you get to a point where they just say "youve been on long enough and havent gotten a job yet, youve got 6 months" or something

Its causing me a lot of stress because my family relies on my income right now. Without it, we're f'd.

Its that Im imminently worried or anything. Ive got an appt with my case manager in a few weeks to discuss my rehab plan (i was on a temporary hold for a year or so as I pursued a potential career path, but that isnt going to work out). I know we'll do one up and move forward with that.

Mostly just wondering if anyone is aware of a situation where ELB is cut off, not for any particular reason, just that VAC got impatient or something like that.


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## Teager

I believe if you complete rehab and have done school VAC gives you 6 months to find employment. If you can't find employment by the end of the 6 months then your ELB could cease. If that happens then you can apply for the CFIS benefit (Canadian Forces Income Support)

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/financial/cf-income-support


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## dunlop303

Just went over this with the case manager, stepping in just because its backwards. You have 6 months to apply for CFIS after the program. Otherwise, you have to re-apply for the program, wait, approved, then apply.

Carefull, its muddy and they are really trying to push this all out to the Spring when the new benefits kick in.


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## RobA

dunlop303 said:
			
		

> Just went over this with the case manager, stepping in just because its backwards. You have 6 months to apply for CFIS after the program. Otherwise, you have to re-apply for the program, wait, approved, then apply.
> 
> Carefull, its muddy and they are really trying to push this all out to the Spring when the new benefits kick in.



Thanks for the response. I looked at the CFIS but doesn't say anything about rates. The feel I get aboout the way the program is explained is that even if approved, you'd be taking a paycut from ELB. Anyone know what the rate for CFIS is?


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## Teager

RobA said:
			
		

> Thanks for the response. I looked at the CFIS but doesn't say anything about rates. The feel I get aboout the way the program is explained is that even if approved, you'd be taking a paycut from ELB. Anyone know what the rate for CFIS is?



http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/rates

Just scroll down a bit.


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