# Special Commissioning Plan ( SCP )



## Kramer (24 Sep 2005)

I've read and understood (I think) the relevant DAOD (9-70), I've Googled the internet, and I've searched these forums but I'm still looking for some "real life" comments and observations about the SCP - how well does it work/not work in practice, what are a person's chances of being successful, etc...

My military background, for what it's worth, and if it may help:  currently a PRes Avn Tech (514), QL5A qualified, Cpl, 2.5 years of service (almost entirely Class B).  In case any one looking at those SCP applications cares, I also got the top student award on my Avn QL3 course.  Plan to go Reg force next year (Trenton, if I can get it).
My academic/civilian background:  engineering degree (eng. phys./mechanical, but crappy marks- only mid 60's average), ten years as an electronics design engineer (telecom and aerospace), P.Eng. license, civilian CPL/ME/IFR (but very low TT), 36 years old.

Yes, I know, I could try DEO but for various good reasons (I believe) I want try to go the Reg NCM, then SCP route.  The only officer trade in which I'm truly interested (except for 32, for which I don't meet the vision requirements) is Aere (41), so that's the one I would apply for under SCP.

I know there are no guarantees and there's always risk but I'm about to make some major decisions based on some major assumptions that I'm kind of vague on - so any practical ideas/comments/observations regarding the SCP would be much appreciated.  You never know if there's one little detail you missed that may be critical, right ?

Thanks,
Cosmo

P.S.  No, I can't just go for a chat with my local BPSO or reg force buddies because they are not around (I'm an Avn Tech but I'm not even close to any CF base, believe it or not...).


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## pronto (24 Sep 2005)

Talk to Kincanucks. He's pretty swift, and will be able to advise you. If that doesn't work out, PM me


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## Reccesoldier (24 Sep 2005)

My advice is to stop making this hard on yourself. If you can go DEO then do it.

I don't know your particular situation but I do know that UTPNCM is almost completely closed to those that already have a degree. 

SCP/CFR is by nomination only. In other words you have to not only be skilled enough and have the required "officer like qualities" but someone in the chain of command, preferably a lot of someones in the chain of command have to not only think that you would make a good officer but they have to personally like you and think of nominating you before you ever get your foot in the door.

Just my .02


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## kincanucks (17 Oct 2005)

Stop wasting time and go DEO as there is absolutely no guarantee that you are going to get nominated for SCP.


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## kincanucks (17 Oct 2005)

_Talk to Kincanucks. He's pretty swift, and will be able to advise you_

You forgot blunt.


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## pronto (17 Oct 2005)

Blunt, but a tea-loving, pinky-extending pal to all those in need


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## kincanucks (17 Oct 2005)

pronto said:
			
		

> Blunt, but a tea-loving, pinky-extending pal to all those in need



Amen brother Amen.


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## vojnik (8 Nov 2008)

Greetings.  I have been reading the posts here on ARMY.CA for some time now. Until now, I feel it is time for me to post something since I know the breadth of knowledge on this board is pretty outstanding!

A little about my situation:

I have been in RForce approaching 4 years this Jan 09.  I am currently a Leading Seaman and gainfully employed as a Comm Rsch Op here in Ottawa.  Before joining, I finished x2 B.As and am currently qualified as a Intermediate - Senior Level Teacher in Ontario (if I choose to be reinstated for nonpayment of Membership). 

From the outset, my plan was to get my feet wet as an NCM, gain some valuable insight, trade experience and mentorship from senior ranking members. Despite prodding from the local CFRC to enter as a DEO and hesitance of committing to the unknown, I temporarily put the idea of eventually pursuing a Commissioning later in my career.  

Well, I am at that point.  Last year, my initial attempts to submit my papers under the SCP was received with support from my CoC.  However, my submission hit a snag somewhere and it turned into a lot of finger pointing and I subsequently missed last year's competition (07-08).  Moving on, I finished my QL5s this summer and resubmitted my papers.  The current CoC identified where the obstacle occurred in last years attempt and was swift and diligent in ensuring it did not happen again.  

Unfortunately, I was injured while on course.  When I returned to my home unit and after excruciating pain, I went to the MIR.  Immediately I was booked with a MRI in two days (God bless the CF!).   The results were a herniated disc in my lower back requiring immediate Physio.  I was also put on TCat for six months which I did not think would impede my process since I was essentially given the Green light to attempt my Express test.

Yesterday I was informed that despite my papers being submitted before the deadline to the local BPSO and even if I were to pass/exempt my Express Test they could not process my SCP application.  

My question to the ARMY.CA community is as follows:

Simply, do I have any recourse in this matter? I know that there are some CFAOs outlining the inability to process an applicant who is on TCAT but can anyone think/brainstorm a possible loophole I can take.

As a side note, this summer that passed I was selected to Deploy next Sep 09.  My immediate CoC informed me that even on TCAT this would not prevent my from participating on my workup training so I can deploy with my initial Roto.  He said (and I haven't had time to research this yet) a new Policy Directive was just released clarifying that even those on TCAT are eligible to deploy (depending on  limitations -- mine should be minimal).  Does anyone think I have a hope in Hell using the intention spelled out in this alleged Policy Directive to further my case to permit my papers to be processed?

Cheers.


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## PMedMoe (8 Nov 2008)

Here's a link to CANFORGEN 187/08 (see reply 111 at link).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/57028.105.html


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## vojnik (9 Nov 2008)

Thanks for the pointing me in the right direction PMedMoe.  

Cheers,

Vojnik


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## vojnik (12 Oct 2012)

Someone mentioned to me in passing that the SCP for this year is now open. 
Could someone with access to the DWAN confirm this and post the CANFORGEN if it exists?  

    Also, I have tried to download the forms that used to have hyperlinks on the CFSU(O) website to get a head start on getting the ball rolling.

    After leaving a couple of voice messages followed up by an email on my DWAN account requesting these forms as per the web site's instructions I still have no response.  I am wondering if they are revamping their recruiting/application process.  Does anyone have electronic copies of the following documents?:

"..All Programs

    Personnel Selection Officer (PSO) - Program Application Check List, 27 July 2011
    PSO Referral Form, 09 Mar 2009
    Confirmation of Conduct Sheet, 24 July 2008
    Confirmation of Medical Category Form, 28 May 2008..."


Thanks a million!


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## DAA (12 Oct 2012)

Canforgen was released today but I currently don't have access to it...


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## Caiden52 (19 Jan 2013)

I haven't talked to a BPSO yet, and I don't really have time as my QL3 starts the beginning of February.  
I have been told by my Sgt that I am eligible for the Special Commissoning Plan.  I am obviously an untrained Pte.  I know it is competitive and all that stuff, and I did apply to be an Officer when I was getting in but the trade closed with all the jobs being given internally to people already in the forces and it never opened up so I became an NCM.  

So if I wanted to do the SCP, it says as a Pte I would have to do BOTC part 1 and part 2.  I believe this means that I would have to go back to St. Jean and do BMOQ, although my Sgt seems to believe that I will be able to do other courses instead of going and doing another Basic Training.  Does anyone know if this is true or if there any leadership courses I can take as a Pte to avoid BOTC?

Also what pay scale would SCP fall under?  On the CF pay scale on the forces.ca site they don't have a spot.  Would it just be under the DEO pay scale?

Thank you very much.


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## dimsum (19 Jan 2013)

To bypass BMOQ (BOTC 1 and 2), you need to have PLQ to bypass the first part, and ILQ to bypass the second, none of which you'll get in time for SCP.  There's really no way around it.


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## TCM621 (19 Jan 2013)

I believe, this is no longer the case. For one BOTC in the from of IAP and BOTP doesn't exist any more. It is BMOQ and it is a single course. My understanding is that BMQ is grounds for bypass of at least some of BMOQ. I was granted an IAP bypass (under the old system) even though I did not have PLQ. There was one person who had 3 years in and was granted a IAP bypass.
I would write a memo requesting a BMOQ bypass and see what happens. They will initiate a PLAR and it may grant you credit for part of the course or all of the course. With the exception of battle procedure, it is basically the same course as BMQ skill wise. You would miss the leadership aspects of it but you would still have other course to pick that up.

Give it a shot. All they can say is no.


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Jan 2013)

BMQ and BMOQ are not...not 'the same except for BP".  

I guess 'missing the leadership aspects' of BMOQ aren't important...for Officers.  No biggy.   :facepalm:

Your advice on submitting the PLAR is bang on.  Let the PLAR folks at CDA do their thing.


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## Caiden52 (19 Jan 2013)

Thank you very much.  I most definitely will.  It says that spec trades get promoted to Lt after their training instead of just 2Lt.  Now does that mean the trade they are going into is spec, or the trade they are coming from is spec?


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Jan 2013)

There is no such thing as Spec pay for Officers, NCM only.

Good luck with your application!


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## Ostrozac (19 Jan 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> To bypass BMOQ (BOTC 1 and 2), you need to have PLQ to bypass the first part, and ILQ to bypass the second, none of which you'll get in time for SCP.  There's really no way around it.



Not entirely accurate. While it used to be the case that you flat out required ILQ (and before that SLC) to get a complete BOTC bypass, it now appears that it is decided on a case by case basis. I commissioned as a Sgt (6A qualified, without ILQ) - submitted a PLAR - and I received a complete bypass of St Jean -- I didn't even get an invite to the "Officership Colloquium".

To the OP -- SCP is a fantastic program, and if your Sergeant is recommending you, I wouldn't let the prospect of a few weeks in St Jean slow you down. Apply, and keep applying! One of the great things about SCP is that since the minimum requirement is only QL3 -- if you don't get picked up on your first application, it is easy to show improvement in your file. You can apply after QL3, after QL4, after QL5, after PLQ, etc... One of the best Senior Officers I know was commissioned under UTPNCM. And he got turned down the first time he applied, accepted the second time. Commissioning programs are extremely competitive, and there's no harm or shame in applying for one and not getting selected.


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## TCM621 (20 Jan 2013)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> BMQ and BMOQ are not...not 'the same except for BP".
> 
> I guess 'missing the leadership aspects' of BMOQ aren't important...for Officers.  No biggy.   :facepalm:
> 
> Your advice on submitting the PLAR is bang on.  Let the PLAR folks at CDA do their thing.



I have done both and BP was the only real difference in terms of skills taught. I don't have easy access to the QSP any more but the PO checks were almost all the same. 

But as I said, that is what CDA is for. I can say from my experience, the first 8 weeks were review at best but that could not be the typical experience.


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Jan 2013)

BMQ candidates are not assessed as leaders.  BMOQ are.  Small detail but huge difference.


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## Socialbutterfly (20 Jan 2013)

I went from NCM to officer and was in St Jean this past summer. I was bypassed the first part of BMOQ and had to go for the second half because I did not complete a PLQ. The second half  (8 weeks) was mostly focused on the field, battle procedure and leadership. If you completed SQ, you will already be familiar with a lot of the topics.


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## TCM621 (29 Jan 2013)

Socialbutterfly said:
			
		

> I went from NCM to officer and was in St Jean this past summer. I was bypassed the first part of BMOQ and had to go for the second half because I did not complete a PLQ. The second half  (8 weeks) was mostly focused on the field, battle procedure and leadership. If you completed SQ, you will already be familiar with a lot of the topics.



There you go. Those last eight weeks the important ones for guys coming from the ranks. OP, be prepared to be a little behind the curve because although the first 8 weeks are basically BMQ, they do start with the leadership stuff a bit from the start. It is very doable though.


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## Coxy (22 Jul 2013)

Hey guys, first time on this forum so go easy on me.  I have been considering joining the Canadian Forces for a long time, and have a strong family background in the military.  I am interested in applying for Infantry as an NCM in either PPCLI or RCR.  I have graduated college with a diploma in police foundations and I am graduating university this year in Criminology.  Before University I applied for ROTP infantry however I failed my vision test.  Before graduating I will be getting laser eye surgery so I am eligible to join the infantry.  

From all the stories I have heard and the people I talked to, I believe that before becoming an Infantry Officer, it would be beneficial to do some service as an NCM.  That way I will have more experience and knowledge before I start leading people.  I intend to serve as an NCM for however many years then decide if I want to stay NCM, or get commissioned to an officer.

So anyways, my questions to those that are experienced with this is, how realistic are my goals?  Is it as simple as applying for SPC once im QL3 or is there a lot more to it?  Generally how many years does it take to get a SPC and how competitive is it? Do i have a decent chance of getting a SPC after 3-5 years or is it very hard and takes longer?  

Is this a recommended route or would you guys recommend something else?  Will this route significantly slow down climbing the ranks of an officer?

If you guys could help with this that would be greatly appreciated!


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## dapaterson (22 Jul 2013)

There are multiple ways to become an officer from a related NCM occupation.  Google UTPNCM, CFR, and SRCP.  That's probably in order of preference if you intend to have a long career as an officer.


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## Coxy (22 Jul 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that UTPNCM and CFR was for those that do not have a university degree prior to enlisting in the army.  Seeing as how I will have a degree prior to enlisting, wouldn't SPC be the best commissioning plan for me?


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## DAA (22 Jul 2013)

Coxy said:
			
		

> Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that UTPNCM and CFR was for those that do not have a university degree prior to enlisting in the army.  Seeing as how I will have a degree prior to enlisting, wouldn't SPC be the best commissioning plan for me?



SCP only applies to currently serving members.  If you already have a post secondary degree and want to be an Officer, you would have to apply DEO.


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## dapaterson (22 Jul 2013)

http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/adm/pdp-pps/cp-pac-eng.asp


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## Coxy (22 Jul 2013)

Yes i know that SPC is for currently serving members, I want to serve as an NCM before becoming commissioned. So i would not be doing direct entry officer.  I also understand the basic requirements for SPC but was looking for more information how its actually used in practice.  If someone could actually read my post and provide some knowledgeable information that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## DAA (22 Jul 2013)

Coxy said:
			
		

> Yes i know that SPC is for currently serving members, I want to serve as an NCM before becoming commissioned. So i would not be doing direct entry officer.  I also understand the basic requirements for SPC but was looking for more information how its actually used in practice.  If someone could actually read my post and provide some knowledgeable information that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!



Sure, you join as an NCM, do your Basic and QL3 training, then get posted to do your actual job.  Do your job well for 3-5 years, show that you have potential for advancement in rank beyond Cpl and don't walk around with the chip on your shoulder that screams "I have a degree and will be an officer through the SCP shortly".


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## Coxy (22 Jul 2013)

DAA said:
			
		

> Sure, you join as an NCM, do your Basic and QL3 training, then get posted to do your actual job.  Do your job well for 3-5 years, show that you have potential for advancement in rank beyond Cpl and don't walk around with the chip on your shoulder that screams "I have a degree and will be an officer through the SCP shortly".



Thank you, more advise like this would be appreciated.  So does it usually only take 3-5 years? Or is it very hard to obtain this and could take around 10 years? And would it be better long-term to just do DEO, or is this more beneficial?  Im just wandering if SPC is very achievable and if it is a better route than DEO to become a good leader and someone that knows what they're doing? The last thing I want is to be an officer that doesn't know what he is doing and is trying to lead sgts and WO that are more experienced and knowledgeable.  Also I think I might like the more "hands-on" approach of an NCM in my first several years


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## MikeL (22 Jul 2013)

You do not need NCM experience to be a good officer; nor are all officers with NCM experience amazing officers; IMO it varies person to person. 

Serving 3 years as a NCM doesn't automatically guarantee success as a officer; as will you not have a lot of leadership experience or have a chance for a leadership course(PLQ) in your first 3 years.


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## DAA (22 Jul 2013)

Coxy said:
			
		

> Thank you, more advise like this would be appreciated.  So does it usually only take 3-5 years? Or is it very hard to obtain this and could take around 10 years? And would it be better long-term to just do DEO, or is this more beneficial?  Im just wandering if SPC is very achievable and if it is a better route than DEO to become a good leader and someone that knows what they're doing? The last thing I want is to be an officer that doesn't know what he is doing and is trying to lead sgts and WO that are more experienced and knowledgeable.  Also I think I might like the more "hands-on" approach of an NCM in my first several years



For the most part, Pte's aren't always afforded the opportunity nor are they in a position to display leadership abilities (ie; leading people) in their regular duties.  Nevertheless, there is opportunity to do so through secondary duties, etc and hopefully the CoC recognizes these when an application does come down the line.  SCP is not a common pathway to becoming an officer and I believe that positions and occupations are very limited.

At the end of the day, superior performance and a favourable recommendation from your Chain of Comd is somewhat crucial in achieving such a goal.


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## Coxy (22 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> You do not need NCM experience to be a good officer; nor are all officers with NCM experience amazing officers; IMO it varies person to person.
> 
> Serving 3 years as a NCM doesn't automatically guarantee success as a officer; as will you not have a lot of leadership experience or have a chance for a leadership course(PLQ) in your first 3 years.



Yeah I realize its not a guarantee to be a good officer after NCM, but I thought it would be better than going officer with nothing, and having no knowledge or experience.  At least this way I know who I am leading because I have been through it for a little bit.  At least  maybe I would know after a couple years of NCM if I would make a good leadert based on recommendations of my NCOs and COs.  Also, I understand there is more "hands-on" as an NCM and I think I would it enjoy that more for my first several years.   Any additional thoughts on this would be awesome Skeletor, thanks!


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## MikeL (22 Jul 2013)

Coxy said:
			
		

> At least  maybe I would know after a couple years of NCM if I would make a good leadert based on recommendations of my NCOs and COs....Any additional thoughts on this would be awesome Skeletor, thanks!



As a officer you can still learn from your NCOs and fellow officers.  Royal Drew, and Technoviking (I'm sure there are others as well) have posted some good information regarding Infantry Officers in the forum, I'd recommend going through their post history.


As well,  don't be like the officer in the attached photo/comic.


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## Coxy (22 Jul 2013)

Alright thanks Skeletor I will look into that! If anyone else has input, that would also be greatly appreciated! I guess another thing is that I thought the NCM life might be more enjoyable for the first few years because youre one of the "guys" where as an officer you're more detached as you're their leader.  But you guys would know best


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## ARMY_101 (24 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/adm/pdp-pps/cp-pac-eng.asp



How's this apply to reservists? i.e. I know of reserve Cpls who have CFR'd, yet the CFAO says you need at least 10 years experience and be a Sgt for CFR.


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## DAA (22 Aug 2013)

Message is out, see CANFORGEN 137/13 for details.


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## dardt (22 Aug 2013)

Anyone have any ideas why Pilot never seems to be open for competition under SCP ? In recent years it's been open under UTPNCM, but not SCP. With the trade still being red and with active DEO recruitment, it doesn't seem to line up. AERE and AEC seem to be open each year under CFR, SCP and UTPNCM but nothing for Pilot under SCP.


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## Newguy1 (27 Mar 2014)

I was wondering what officer trades are available this year/or usually are offered through the SCP program?


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## DAA (28 Mar 2014)

Newguy1 said:
			
		

> I was wondering what officer trades are available this year/or usually are offered through the SCP program?



See CANFORGEN 173/13 for details and the program is done for the year.  Not to mention, SCP is an "internal" program, available only to currently serving members of the CF.


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## The_Falcon (29 Mar 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> See CANFORGEN 173/13 for details and the program is done for the year.  Not to mention, SCP is an "internal" program, available only to currently serving members of the CF.



What DAA said, get in get trained then worry about stuff like this.  This beyond recruiting. 

locked.


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## startagain (14 May 2014)

Hello everyone, 

I was wondering if I can get some advice here at this forum regarding Special Commissioning Plan. 

I attended RMC but due to credit deficiency, I could not get my commission.  But I am granted a degree from RMC. 
I still love the military and want to still be part of the CF so I decided to COT LOG to NCM trades. (RMS clerk, Sup Tech and Med. Tech) 
Not that this is my pressing goal to get commissioned right away, I just want to see my options for the future. 

So, I already have my degree and if I was to go officer later on how does this work?


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## Crispy Bacon (14 May 2014)

What trade are you right now?


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## startagain (14 May 2014)

Crispy Bacon said:
			
		

> What trade are you right now?



I am Log at the moment. Hopefully will get clerk.


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## DAA (14 May 2014)

startagain said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if I can get some advice here at this forum regarding Special Commissioning Plan.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you attended RMC, received poor academic guidance, then graduated with a "general" undergrad degree that was NOT compatible with your chosen occupation.

Your not the first one this has happened to......      :facepalm:

Now the bad news.  You won't be able to apply for SCP later on down the road, unless you obtain the proper "major" and have the academic qualifications for whatever occupation you may wish to choose at a later date.  Without the "proper" undergrad degree, you still wouldn't qualify for Log O through the SCP program.

I'm surpirsed that RMC just didn't run you through another semester to obtain the requisite courses.


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## startagain (15 May 2014)

Yeah, that is exactly what happened- unfortunately.
To receive my "major" (Economics) degree I am 2 credits short at RMC, so I am already signed up to do those course 
through distance learning on the upcoming academic year. 
So I should have an appropriate degree soon enough. 

I heard there are some pre-req that are needed for SCP you need ql3 and be a Cpl/LS? - is that correct?


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## Crispy Bacon (15 May 2014)

You're looking for CFAO 9-70: Special Commissioning Plan:



> ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
> 3. To be eligible for the SCP an applicant must meet the following
> requirements by 1 Jul of the year in which the selection board is convened:
> 
> ...


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## startagain (17 May 2014)

I have a little bit of update on my situation and I was wondering if can ask for more advice. 

I have spoken with the Log branch Integrator in Ottawa and my BA is not the problem that is 
making not eligible for my trade- because when I joined the forces the ES for Log was acceptable for any BA degree. Its actually my CFAT score.

The fact when I switched from my Major degree to the general BA now, due to a change in the Log ES now, 
of the CFAT that I wrote is not within the standard that it is now. That is the reason I cannot be retained in my occupation - I have already written the CFAT twice before high school when I first applied for RMC.

And, I just got my commissioning msg sent to me by my CoC... this is very confusing… 
Any advice would be appreciated.


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## startagain (17 May 2014)

In addition to my previous post: 

I am asking to be retained in my original occupation that I started with, so if I am grandfathered in regards
to what degree I can have when I joined, shouldn't I be grandfathered on my CFAT score as well?

Because my entry plan states that I am subsidized under ROTP will be commissioned as a Log upon completion of just a BA.


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## DAA (18 May 2014)

As far as the "undergrad degree" requirements, yes, you should be "grandfathered" based on your original enrolment date.  So if the academic standards did change after you started at RMC, then they shouldn't necessarily apply to you or anyone else that was already enrolled.

As far as the CFAT scores are concerned, I'd have to look closer into this.  I am not sure just how much the requirement changed, if it changed at all but this should not be a barrier, provided you did meet the minimum requirements for the occupation at the time of enrolment.  So technically, they could grant you a CFAT waiver given the circumstances.

If you are now being told that your CFAT scores do not meet the minimum requirements for your occupation, then chances are you didn't meet the minimum at the time of enrolment and someone may have missed that.     :facepalm:


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## startagain (20 May 2014)

Well as far as I am being told by the BPSO in kingston is that the LOG ES now for the CFAT is within the 30th percentile 
and my CFAT that I wrote when I originally applied does not reach the standard. Therefore I cannot be an Officer at this time. 

I argued that I am asked to retain in my original trade and under the conditions that I joined. I understand that I "changed" the type of BA that I have. 
Nevertheless, it is IAW the entry plan that I enrolled with. Therefore, logically in my head it makes sense that I should be commissioned. - Ottawa seems to think so 
because I got a Commissioning Msg.  

Before all of this I had a redress (NOI) ready to go but it got rejected before it got to the CO on the basis that I have no grounds for a grievance because everything
was on par to the policy- I asked for these specific policies and they were not provided to me.


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## Crispy Bacon (20 May 2014)

startagain said:
			
		

> Before all of this I had a redress (NOI) ready to go but it got rejected before it got to the CO on the basis that I have no grounds for a grievance because everything
> was on par to the policy- I asked for these specific policies and they were not provided to me.



 :facepalm: What do you mean "it got rejected"?  There is absolutely no right for anyone to gatekeep a grievance when a member has submitted one to the CO.


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## captloadie (20 May 2014)

There has got to be more to this story. I find it hard to believe that someone who scored high enough to get admitted into RMC in the first place did not have a high enough CFAT score to be Logistics. Did you have supplementals to right this semester? Or did you fail two course this year that you couldn't make up, so they just granted you a general degree? Not allowing a cadet to commission with his peers on parade is a decision they don't take lightly, so there must be other factors at play. 

As a minimum, I would think they would have let you (forced you) to do your oblig service as a OCDT until you met the standards or OT's into another officer trade.


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## startagain (20 May 2014)

I had a rough second year with academics which caused me to write 3 Supplementary exams of which I passed and recieved credits for.
I used my last sup exam for a elective that I didn't pass in the first semester of fourth year - but was not sucessful which led to this credit definency. Originally becuase this course was an elective my graduation advisors told me that I was still on track to graduate. I just had to pick up a different elective. -However this became misleading information. So I appealed to the Academic Board at RMC and they agreed that there was a disrepency with my academic file therefore, becuase I already had so many credits they gave me the choice of this general BA vs. no degree in the first place. 

The BPSO working with RMC here said that I am not eligible to be an officer with my CFAT score. 
I spoke with the log branch integator and according to them, they do not have a problem with my BA, I fall under the grandfathering clause. 
I meet all the req. to be comissioned but can't becuase there is a policy that becuase there was a change in the type of BA I got, I have to re-apply into LOG. - I am have been looking for this "policy" like crazy.


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## mkil (24 Feb 2015)

Hello friends,

I am looking to speak to someone who has gone through the process of applying to the special commissioning plan before. I am a Med Tech with a BSc, BEd and an M.Ed and am looking into becoming a TDO. I have some general questions about the SCP, and some more specific questions related to my personal situation. 

Thank you!


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## mariomike (24 Feb 2015)

mkil said:
			
		

> I have some general questions about the SCP, and some more specific questions related to my personal situation.



Some SCP Questions and Answers here.

Special Commissioning Plan Questions  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/111459.0


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## mkil (24 Feb 2015)

Thank you, I have read that thread before and it left me with some questions still. I guess I will just list them and hope someone can chime in.

1) I know that for CFR, an NCM must be nominated for the program. Is this the case for SCP? SCP is open to all QL3 qualified individuals. Considering that some trades are QL3 qualified by the time they have 6 months in the CF, it would seem that being nominated is not part of the program.

2) what is the application like? Apart from the standard interview, are there other components such as reference letters, etc.? 

3) Is the SCP application for one trade only, or are you allowed to list alternate choices (as on the initial CF application) 

4) Is SCP similar to other boards: ie, more points for being bilingual, time in, CFAT, courses etc.? 

5)  I am told that SCP posting messages come out every January should you be selected. Does this mean physically posted to another base to await training, or being given the rank of OCdt and posted to a different position at your present base? My husband is also in the CF and I would not want his career to go to the wayside in the event that my SCP application is successful.

6) I realize that no one can tell me my "chances" based on a list of credentials, but is it often that SCP accepts Ptes for commissioning? I realize that my education background is a little rare for a Pte - but that is in and of itself a very long story. 

7) What are some things that I could be doing now to prepare myself for the application when the CANFORGEN comes out in August. 

I am sure I will have more questions. I appreciate advice from any and all, NCM or officer. 

Thanks.


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## dardt (25 Feb 2015)

mkil said:
			
		

> Thank you, I have read that thread before and it left me with some questions still. I guess I will just list them and hope someone can chime in.
> 
> 1) I know that for CFR, an NCM must be nominated for the program. Is this the case for SCP? SCP is open to all QL3 qualified individuals. Considering that some trades are QL3 qualified by the time they have 6 months in the CF, it would seem that being nominated is not part of the program.
> 
> ...



1. SCP does not require nomination by your CoC (that's CFR). If you are QL3 qualified and hold a degree that's specified for the trade you are interested in then you are eligible to apply. All the requirements are spelled out in the CANFORGEN released each year for the competition.

2. There are different sections to the application form, including commentary by your CO on your leadership potential.

3. You can specify different choices as long as you meet the educational requirements for that trade.

4. Yes, it all counts toward your final score (especially anything related to leadership, formal or otherwise).

5. Depends on the Officer trade and where you need to go for training. You're unlikely to get a full cost posting until you are trade qualified in your new trade (although not impossible).

6. I doubt anyone can really tell you what your chances are. You have a lot of education for a Pte, but NCMs with degrees is also more and more commonplace these days. On the one hand TDO probably doesn't receive a lot of applications under SCP, on the other they take very few (on this year's SIP there was only one position listed for TDO under UTPNCM and zero for SCP. Don't let this stop you however. Inquire with your PSO regardless, the CF may be more interested in taking a TDO under SCP vs. UTP $$$).

7. Ensure you have a current medical, PT test. Make it easy for your CoC to evaluate your leadership potential on paper (PDR,LOA). Interface with your BPSO, you don't have to wait for the CANFORGEN to inquire about the process.

Good luck !


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## jayrcaf (9 Apr 2015)

Hello,

Was wondering if anyone who has applied through the SPC rout has heard about acceptances yet???


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## jayrcaf (9 Apr 2015)

I am wondering if any one who has applied through the Spec. Commissioning Plan (SPC) program for Fiscal Year 14/15 has received their acceptance? It is now April, and messages should start rolling out. Anyone receive word?


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## Loachman (9 Apr 2015)

Aren't you the impatient one, even in this era of instant gratification?

Are you going to ask every three hours?

Relax. Breathe. Think about fluffy kittens and frolicking bunnies.


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## George Wallace (9 Apr 2015)

Ah!

Frolicking bunnies!

Sigh!


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (9 Apr 2015)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Aren't you the impatient one, even in this era of instant gratification?
> 
> Are you going to ask every three hours?
> 
> Relax. Breathe. Think about fluffy kittens and frolicking bunnies.



Sounds to me like he's already waited a year. I know this is the norm, but still, a year is a long time for a selection process.


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## George Wallace (9 Apr 2015)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> Sounds to me like he's already waited a year. I know this is the norm, but still, a year is a long time for a selection process.



Others have waited two or three years to get into one of the Entry Programs, so not that unusual.


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## X Royal (9 Apr 2015)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> Sounds to me like he's already waited a year. I know this is the norm, but still, a year is a long time for a selection process.


Maybe you should check out the posters names?
Jayrcaf has a total of 2 posts both within 3 hrs of each other.
Don't know where you getting "_he's already waited a year_" when he just became a member today?


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## DAA (10 Apr 2015)

jayrcaf said:
			
		

> I am wondering if any one who has applied through the Spec. Commissioning Plan (SPC) program for Fiscal Year 14/15 has received their acceptance? It is now April, and messages should start rolling out. Anyone receive word?



SCP Offers are generally made in Jan or early Feb at the "latest".  According to the CANFORGEN (137/14) DMCPG will not entertain queries on outstanding files until May.


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (10 Apr 2015)

X Royal said:
			
		

> Maybe you should check out the posters names?
> Jayrcaf has a total of 2 posts both within 3 hrs of each other.
> Don't know where you getting "_he's already waited a year_" when he just became a member today?



Its based on the SCP applications being due for submission in the summer (ie may/june 2014) and it almost being May 2015. If the guy had submitted an application, it would be almost a year now.


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## trunkmonkey (4 Aug 2015)

See CANFORGEN 144/15 CMP 065/15 281738Z JUL 15.

The following occupations are listed: 00178 ARMD, 00179 ARTY , 00180 INF, 00181 ENGR , 00182 ACSO, 00183 PLT , 00184 AEC , 00185 AERE , 00187 EME , 00189 CONST ENGR , 00192 HCA , 00203 PAO , 00207 MARS , 00208 PSEL , 00211 TRG DEV , 00213 INT , 00014 MPO , 00328 LOG , 00340 CELE AIR , 00341 SIGS , 00344 NCS ENG , 00345 MS ENG


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## Andraste (2 May 2016)

Sorry mods if this is in the wrong spot but I could not find a better fit.  ???  So please move as required . . . thanks  

Good morning,

Just to let those interested know that new DAODs have been released on the Commissioning from the Ranks Plan (CFRP) - DAOD 5002-10, and the Special Commissioning Plan (SCP) - DAOD 5002-11. This has effectively cancelled CFAO 11-9 and Annex C to CFAO 49-10.  

Of interesting note both DAODs are reflective of Regular Force members and Reserve Force members.  In particular SCP now exists for Reserve Force members.

Cheers

Andraste


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## ModlrMike (2 May 2016)

Andraste said:
			
		

> In particular SCP now exists for Reserve Force members.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andraste



That could be useful considering the large percentage of degree holding NCMs in the reserve.


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## Hound Dog (14 May 2016)

Taking a look through that; does anyone know where one could find the Strategic Intake Plan that is to be produced annually by DPGR?

Edit to add: never mind, found it in another thread.



			
				dapaterson said:
			
		

> Information on the planned intake - called the SIP (for Strategic Intake Plan) is posted to the DPGR site on the DWAN.  They're under CMP.
> 
> Look for "Production documents" on the site, and there should be the SIP posted there.


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (8 Jul 2016)

For those who are unaware, the Special Commissioning Plan is a officer entry program for serving NCMs who have already attained the educational requirements for their desired officer trade (ie the have a bachelor's degree).

Being from a large unit, I've seen messages for about 10 members who applied under the SCP program. Keep in mind, this is NCMs, who either entered with a bachelor's degree or attained them while working in the regular force.

That said, of all the messages that I read, only 2 of the 10 received acceptances. I'm no longer in recruiting, but I would think that this is likely far lower than the acceptance level of people off the street into the ROTP program. And these are serving members with at least 3 years of experience, (none of them were under the rank of Cpl in this case), already have a degree (meaning there's no risk of the person failing out of RMC/University), and have a proven track record of good conduct and capable military service.

Granted 10 is a smallish sample size (though the program is among the smallest officer entry programs) but I can't understand the logic of taking large numbers of civilians off the street, pushing them through university (at a cost, and with risk of them not succeeding) and then commissioning them with no real knowledge of how they will perform and conduct themselves in a military environment; and to do this while passing over the chance to promote those within (who have been recommended by their CO, recommended by a BPSO).

It seems to me that they need to review their priorities when it comes to the entry plans in this regard, and yes, I do understand that my view is biased in this issue.


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## mariomike (8 Jul 2016)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> For those who are unaware, the Special Commissioning Plan is a officer entry program for serving NCMs who have already attained the educational requirements for their desired officer trade (ie the have a bachelor's degree).



See also,

Special Commissioning Plan  
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+scp&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=FJZ_V8uoFMeh8wew1ZOgAw&gws_rd=ssl


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## dapaterson (8 Jul 2016)

No knowing all the details, could this also be related to OUTCAP issues for the feeder MOSIDs?  If you're in a distressed MOSID, the number of pers allowed to transfer out through any program (AVOTP, SCP or anything else) will be severely restricted.


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (8 Jul 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No knowing all the details, could this also be related to OUTCAP issues for the feeder MOSIDs?  If you're in a distressed MOSID, the number of pers allowed to transfer out through any program (AVOTP, SCP or anything else) will be severely restricted.



From my understanding of the system from talking with the BPSO, red/yellow trades only impact VOTs among NCM trades, the CM have no say over the officer entry programs (which makes sense since he was never consulted on mine, instead I let him know as a heads up before posting season)


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## PuckChaser (8 Jul 2016)

If those members did not have PLQ completed, they would basically be like a DEO, having to do BMOQ. I think you'd see a higher success rate with applications from MCpls, as they can skip right to DP1 in most cases.


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## DAA (8 Jul 2016)

Intake numbers are allocated and assigned by the OA (Occupational Authority) based on forecasted attrition rates, etc, etc.   Most NCMs who join while already possessing a post secondary education do so because their chances of being offered an Officer Occupation from off the street weren't that great to start with.  Mind you, there are also those who just aren't interested in being an Officer.

The Internal SIP isn't very large and for good reason.  The CF can't put itself in a position where people are shuffled around occupations internally just to satisfy personal needs/wishes/expectations.  This would only serve to create the ever rotating hiring wheel, where occupations will continually be short staffed of qualified/trained members.  For every member who is successful in pursuing an ISS (In Service Selection) Program application, this ends up creating the need for two training vacancies, one for the individuals new occupation and one to replace/reman the occupational position which they just vacated.


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## George Wallace (8 Jul 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> Intake numbers are allocated and assigned by the OA (Occupational Authority) based on forecasted attrition rates, etc, etc.



That is a serious problem for the Reserves.  Regular Force formulas that forecast attrition rates can not be applied successfully to the Reserves.  Reservists have dozens of other criteria to consider when one wants to forecast attrition rates. Graduation from school, university and or college and changes in civilian employment could cause Reservists to have to move away from the geographic location of their unit, or not permit them the hours to attend training.  The departure of members after graduation or for civilian employment to locations distant from the unit is unpredictable.  As part-time/volunteer members, changes to family and social situations have a greater affect on their attendance.   There is a greater number of events in a Reservist's life that could change their ability to volunteer their time and cause them to be NES, than a Regular Force member.  There is NO accurate formula to forecast attrition rates in the Reserves.  
The Reserves have to be able to recruit a minimum of five pers for every position in order to reasonably be expected to maintain their authorized strengths.  Many Reserve units see most of their attrition of their members from among their new applicants who do not complete BMQ or BMQ (L).  This factor, slowly whittles down the unit's effective strength.  A problem not faced to the same extent in the Regular Force.


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (8 Jul 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> Intake numbers are allocated and assigned by the OA (Occupational Authority) based on forecasted attrition rates, etc, etc.   Most NCMs who join while already possessing a post secondary education do so because their chances of being offered an Officer Occupation from off the street weren't that great to start with.  Mind you, there are also those who just aren't interested in being an Officer.
> 
> The Internal SIP isn't very large and for good reason.  The CF can't put itself in a position where people are shuffled around occupations internally just to satisfy personal needs/wishes/expectations.  This would only serve to create the ever rotating hiring wheel, where occupations will continually be short staffed of qualified/trained members.  For every member who is successful in pursuing an ISS (In Service Selection) Program application, this ends up creating the need for two training vacancies, one for the individuals new occupation and one to replace/reman the occupational position which they just vacated.



I would think it would create only 1 vacancy, the one in the NCM's previous occupation, as the vacancy in the officer trade is then occupied by the former NCM. That said, having a person that can immediately start trade training (or in the case of a Cpl, only requires BMOQ), chances are they would have a fully trained officer and a fully trained NCM (if they recruited a new NCM for their old trade) by the time a ROTP recruit were even half way through their university course. 
This is not to mention the value of having an officer with significant real work experience, and not having someone that will try to quit because "I guess the military just isn't for me afterall".


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## DAA (8 Jul 2016)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> I would think it would create only 1 vacancy, the one in the NCM's previous occupation, as the vacancy in the officer trade is then occupied by the former NCM. That said, having a person that can immediately start trade training (or in the case of a Cpl, only requires BMOQ), chances are they would have a fully trained officer and a fully trained NCM (if they recruited a new NCM for their old trade) by the time a ROTP recruit were even half way through their university course.
> This is not to mention the value of having an officer with significant real work experience, and not having someone that will try to quit because "I guess the military just isn't for me afterall".



I don't think they place much emphasis on the "value" of the prior work experience, as in most cases the individuals have little if any practical leadership experience, mind you they do have the CAF knowledge and should know what to expect during and later on in their careers.  Have a look at the SIP Tables one day and just scan over some of the Officer occupations and their intake allocations (both internal and external).  It's surprising what you will see and it's one of those things that will make you go "Hmmmmm".    ???


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## jitterbug (15 Jul 2016)

Still haven't even heard from Ottawa on the 2016 SCP competition and the new CANFORGEN for the 2017 SCP competition is out.  Not sure what to do at this point...PSO doesn't know anything more other than that Ottawa says messages will be cut shortly....


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## CountDC (15 Jul 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That is a serious problem for the Reserves.  Regular Force formulas that forecast attrition rates can not be applied successfully to the Reserves.  Reservists have dozens of other criteria to consider when one wants to forecast attrition rates. Graduation from school, university and or college and changes in civilian employment could cause Reservists to have to move away from the geographic location of their unit, or not permit them the hours to attend training.  The departure of members after graduation or for civilian employment to locations distant from the unit is unpredictable.  As part-time/volunteer members, changes to family and social situations have a greater affect on their attendance.   There is a greater number of events in a Reservist's life that could change their ability to volunteer their time and cause them to be NES, than a Regular Force member.  There is NO accurate formula to forecast attrition rates in the Reserves.
> The Reserves have to be able to recruit a minimum of five pers for every position in order to reasonably be expected to maintain their authorized strengths.  Many Reserve units see most of their attrition of their members from among their new applicants who do not complete BMQ or BMQ (L).  This factor, slowly whittles down the unit's effective strength.  A problem not faced to the same extent in the Regular Force.



Almost completely agree - part that I don't is the NES.  There is only one factor that makes a mbr NES and that is the mbr.  There is no reason I have ever seen for a mbr to go NES especially these days.  They can pick up a phone,  call the unit and arrange releases or ED&T, units will mail them paperwork to sign and send back.  If they are releasing then everything can be arranged if they make the effort and everyone acts like adults.  For example two case dealt with - a mbr of the unit on ED&T contacted the unit as he was in Africa and was not able to return to Canada on time due to the virus scare.  Arrangements were made to take care of via emails.  At another time a Cpl contacted me to arrange his release and for us to go to his mothers house to collect his kit which we did.  The mbr was calling me from jail as he had been sentenced that morning (no, we were not made aware of the case until after the fact).  If these 2 can do it I question anyone going NES.

NES mbrs have such an impact on units that I really don't understand why so many stall on getting them released.  They impact budgets (based on attendance numbers), SIP (if the posn is filled you can't recruit into it thus a lower SIP), promotions (especially at Sgt and WO level as again no empty posn so you can't promote) and unit function (able to support training, fill tasked positions, even other mbrs obtaining course quals as they cannot get promoted to the rank required for their next course).  

For the SCP I see it as a need to balance out as much as possible to the benefit of the military.  We need the posns allocated to both mbrs already in transferring over and for mbrs off the street rather than just one so we can have the experience to quickly fill holes plus some new blood to bring fresh eyes to matters.


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## SJBeaton (10 Jul 2018)

Good day,

Has anyone had experience commissioning via SCP and seeking clarification WRT effective/seniority dates? Quick backstory - a LS (without PLQ) was successful with the SCP application and appointed NCdt until finishing BMOQ Mod2. BTL is saying that the effective/seniority date of A/SLt is date of graduation of Mod2, not the date reflected on message. 

Message reads: INITIAL RANK: APPOINTED NCDT 15 AUG 17. COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF A/SLT UPON COMPLETION OF BASIC MILITARY OFFICER QUALIFICATION OR 15 AUG 17 IF GRANTED BMOQ MOD 1 AND MOD 2 EQUIVALENCY. SEN DATE: 15 AUG 17, EPZ DATE TO SLT: IAW COMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY

If this is the case, why isn't the effective/seniority date for SCP similar to that of DEO or UTPNCM (date of enrollment or last semester of classes) if the mbr already has a degree? With an 10-month delay between the message date and Mod2 graduation (due to training availability), mbr would be missing out on nearly a year of seniority and clearly disadvantaged because of the commissioning plan chosen.

Thanks in advance for any insight or references provided.


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## PuckChaser (10 Jul 2018)

Are DEOs not commissioned on completion of BMOQ? Since you need to do Mod 2, you are basically following a similar track as any other DEO. The reference you want is listed on your message, there's a DAOD on commissioning and what ranks get given when on what plans.

Keep in mind your selection message and PLAR come from different places. Selection message isn't tracking what courses you'll have to do, so best case scenario was commissioning on 15 Aug 17 if you were granted BMOQ Mods 1 and 2. Since you weren't, commissioning is delayed until you meet that criteria.


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## SJBeaton (11 Jul 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Are DEOs not commissioned on completion of BMOQ? Since you need to do Mod 2, you are basically following a similar track as any other DEO. The reference you want is listed on your message, there's a DAOD on commissioning and what ranks get given when on what plans.
> 
> Keep in mind your selection message and PLAR come from different places. Selection message isn't tracking what courses you'll have to do, so best case scenario was commissioning on 15 Aug 17 if you were granted BMOQ Mods 1 and 2. Since you weren't, commissioning is delayed until you meet that criteria.



CFAO 11-6 Anx A (9) states that yes, DEOs commission on completion of BMOQ, but their effective/seniority date is date of enrollment (minus LWOP considerations). I'm not questioning the commissioning requirements, but I am questioning the effective/seniority date for SCP. There is no mention of the effective date in DAOD 5002-11 and there is no mention at all of SCP in the CFAOs. There is no clear reference in the message, unfortunately.


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## Caiden52 (8 Sep 2018)

SJBeaton said:
			
		

> CFAO 11-6 Anx A (9) states that yes, DEOs commission on completion of BMOQ, but their effective/seniority date is date of enrollment (minus LWOP considerations). I'm not questioning the commissioning requirements, but I am questioning the effective/seniority date for SCP. There is no mention of the effective date in DAOD 5002-11 and there is no mention at all of SCP in the CFAOs. There is no clear reference in the message, unfortunately.



I commissioned through the SCP. I was a Private before and then I was "promoted" to OCdt 13 July 2015.  That is now my effective date. I had to go and do MOD 2 of BMOQ as an OCdt (joined a course in Oct and ended in Dec I think) and then got promoted to 2Lt right after finishing. My eligibility date for Captain was 13 July 2018 (3 years). Time in as a Pvt doesn't add anything to your seniority through the SCP. Hope this answers your question.


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## Arty39 (3 Jul 2019)

I tried searching for the answer and couldn’t find it. I applied for the SCP last year and went through all the steps. It’s now July and I haven’t heard a yes or a no back. Do you get a message back saying no your application was not accepted?


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## garb811 (3 Jul 2019)

You should get a message either way.


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## sidemount (3 Jul 2019)

Check in with your PSO who conducted your interview. They will be able to give you a solid answer.


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