# CADPAT nametag question



## Rearadmiral (16 Dec 2006)

I’ve searched the site and found some vague references to this, but not an answer to this specific question.  I’ve asked it to several people and the answer is pretty much evenly split.  Is the insignia on the CADPAT nametags used to denote an MOC or a Command?  I don’t ask this to sound stupid, my real reason is that I don’t want to be disrespectful.  Some people say that only combat arms MOCs wear the crossed sword insignia, but others say that it simply denotes the command – like the command badge we all had to wear back in the bad old says of CFs.  I’m in a purple MOC (JAG) and I don’t want to disrespect the people who serve in combat arms.  I work with mostly combat arms types, so they aren’t really helpful because no matter what the answer is they still wear the cross swords.  

Any help would be appreciated.


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## Journeyman (16 Dec 2006)

What colour is your DEU? That indicates the insignia on your nametag....and possibly the thread colour of the nametag & rank slip-on.

If your costume is green, you wear the crossed swords....without offending anyone in the combat arms.


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## armyvern (16 Dec 2006)

Rearadmiral said:
			
		

> I’ve searched the site and found some vague references to this, but not an answer to this specific question.  I’ve asked it to several people and the answer is pretty much evenly split.  Is the insignia on the CADPAT nametags used to denote an MOC or a Command?  I don’t ask this to sound stupid, my real reason is that I don’t want to be disrespectful.  Some people say that only combat arms MOCs wear the crossed sword insignia, but others say that it simply denotes the command – like the command badge we all had to wear back in the bad old says of CFs.  I’m in a purple MOC (JAG) and I don’t want to disrespect the people who serve in combat arms.  I work with mostly combat arms types, so they aren’t really helpful because no matter what the answer is they still wear the cross swords.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.



The insignia on the nametape recognizes the enviornmental uniform that you wear, not where you serve, and not your trade.

Land DEU = Crossed swords;
Naval DEU = Anchor; and
Air DEU = Eagle.


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## gaspasser (16 Dec 2006)

Not that I wish to correct The Librarian, but:
Air Force= ALBATROSS.  Uh huh, the sh*t hawk.  We only wish it was an eagle.
Sorry,  ;D


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## geo (16 Dec 2006)

Heh..............
Hard to soar with the eagles when you're flying with a bunch of turkeys :warstory: 8)


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## gaspasser (16 Dec 2006)

Note to self:  go buy a new monitor tomorrow.
Mine now has spewed coffee on it, thanks geo!


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## Loachman (16 Dec 2006)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Not that I wish to correct The Librarian, but:
> Air Force= ALBATROSS.  Uh huh, the **** hawk.  We only wish it was an eagle.
> Sorry,  ;D



The Librarian was correct. It's an eagle.

See: http://www.airforce.ca/index2.php3?page=about

by Wing Commander F.H. Hitchins, Air Historian
from “Roundel” Vol 1 No 10 Aug 1949

Time was, says the oldster, when a simple statement in a ServiceMess about the bird that appears on RCAF buttons, and badges was sure tostart an argument that would last far into the night.

This once-burning issue about the bird’s true identity has allbut flickered out, and (it is hoped) new members of the Force are correctly“indoctrinated” that the bird is an eagle. Mention that to a veteranwearing First World War ribbons, however, and you run the risk of becominginvolved. If he flew in the Old Royal Naval Air Service (and threeof our four Chiefs of Staff did), a gleam will come into his eye and hewill begin convincing you. By the third round you will find yourselftactfully agreeing that is isn’t an eagle at all, but ­ as any clotcan plainly see ­ an albatross.
Actually the controversy was settled ­ officially ­ longbefore it even began, and, for the benefit of those who have endured, orhave yet to face the argument, here are the facts.

It all started in the summer of 1914 when the board of Admiraltytook upon itself, in defiance of Cabinet orders issued two years earlier,to rename the Naval Wing of the Royal Flying Corps as the Royal Naval AirService. These regulations of the 23rd June 1914, clearly statedthat officers of RNAS would wear an eagle on the left sleeve above therank lace. An eagle was substituted for the anchor on buttons, capbadges, and other insignia. According to tradition, the Lords Commissionersof the Admiralty adopted the eagle design (outstretched wings with headinclined to the right) from a brooch which the wife of a naval officerhad purchased from Paris. So, from the very moment it was hatched,the bird was an eagle.

But, as many will tell you, regulations are meant to be printed,not heeded. It may be that the outbreak of was a few weeks latercaused the details of the regulations to be overlooked or forgotten ­or read in true Nelson fashion with telescope to the blind eye. Ormaybe the Navy fliers decided that the eagle, a land bird, had no placein a naval service. At any rate, before long the members of the RNASconsidered as high treason any suggestion that their bird was other thana proper seagoing albatross.

Then, in 1918, the RFC and RNAS were merged into the Royal AirForce, and the new Air Force took over the RNAS rank insignia ­ andthe bird. Quite naturally, ex-RNAS members carried with them intothe RAF their unswerving loyalty to the albatross, although there is nothingto show that the RAF ever regarded it ­ officially ­ as anythingbut an eagle.

When the CAF was formed in Canada in 1920 it carefully sidesteppedthe issue by adopting a uniform with army ranks badges and insignia thatcontained wings but no bird. The first dress regulations issued forthe RCAF in 1925 leave no doubt that the featured creature was still officially,as it had been since 1914, an eagle.
Many of the RCAF’s personnel were veterans who had flown withthe RNAS and, true to the tradition of the “Silent Service,” they eloquentlyand persuasively spread the myth that the bird worn by the RCAF was reallyan albatross. The argument smoldered for years, mostly in the messes,although occasionally someone actually sat down to write a memo about it.

When the Second World War came along, the controversy flaredagain. Thousands of wartime recruits were told that the bird theywore on their shoulders and brass buttons was an albatross. Thousandsmore were told that it was an eagle. To others it was simply a bird,although one officer irreverently suggested it was a pregnant duck. Of course, no one bothered to consult the regulations.

The controversy should have been settled, once and for all, inJanuary 1943. Ever since 1924 the RCAF had been using as its “official”badge the badge of the RAF, modified by the addition of a scroll bearingthe words “Royal Canadian Air Force.” After 18 years of use it was,somewhat belatedly, discovered that this RCAF badge had never been officiallyapproved or sanctioned. The Chester Herald, who had been appointedInspector of RCAF Badges, accordingly prepared a proper design, improvingupon the 1924 version, and in January 1943 this general badge of the RCAFwas approved by H.M. the King. The Chester Herald’s description ofthe badge clearly and specifically refers to the bird in the design as“an eagle volant affronte, the head lowered and to the sinister.” In short, it was still an eagle and always had been ­ although thealbatross was a very nice bird, too. Nevertheless, rumblings of thecontroversy was still heard until the end of the war.

Today, former members of the RNAS are so few in the RCAF thatthere is little thy can do about it except mutter in their beer. But even so, if the subject should ever come up and there’s an old veteranabout, be careful. He may be an ex-RNAS type, and if he is, it’s still an albatross to him.

Wartime Pathfinder WO1 George Bova of 410 Wing hand-carved this likenessof the Pathfinder Force Eagle that he proudly wore on his WWII uniform,and that he still wears today below his AFAC blazer badge. Since the war,our Air Force Eagle has been seen in various forms; including the broad-wingedRCAF version, the "old bird" and ruffled-feathers version of the RCAF Association,and most recently the streamlined version in the new AFAC badge.


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## gaspasser (17 Dec 2006)

For the six plus years I was in Air Cadets etc, it's always been an Albatross.  However, if historians _now_ say that it's an Eagle, then I go with that.  An Eagle is a much prouder bird that a poop eating albatross. I will stand corrected.
 8)


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## geo (17 Dec 2006)

Eagles, the Bald eagle amongst others is a carion eater.... looks good from afar but far from good -  just looks better than say.... a vulture.

The Albatros at least works for it's living........... I think???


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## armyvern (17 Dec 2006)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> For the six plus years I was in Air Cadets etc, it's always been an Albatross.  However, if historians _now_ say that it's an Eagle, then I go with that.  An Eagle is a much prouder bird that a poop eating albatross. I will stand corrected.
> 8)



Well BYT, it was an eagle way back when this ancient chick wore the blue.  ;D


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## geo (17 Dec 2006)

Vern..........
You're always gonna be a hawk.
Not too big & fast like hell.....


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## Franko (17 Dec 2006)

Question answered......

LOCKED

Regards


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