# LAV III FOO



## Clément Barbeau Vermet (22 Oct 2005)

Hello everyone.
I know how FOOs work with the Artillery, but the LAV FOO and its laser sensors (used to detect the fall of shells and correct them) counfuses me. When an army mini UAV spots a target or when a CBR spots the enemy howitzers I do not think we are going to wait for a LAV FOO to get there (if it can) before we order our guns to fire? When a recce team or an inf platoon/coy cals in for arty fire, we do not need  a LAV FOO? Can somebody help me please?
                                                             Thanks,                                                  Clément


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## Craig B (22 Oct 2005)

You will not be calling a Arty battery CP direct . Your call for fire will be _to_ a FOO . The FOO will then decide if your target is worth shooting at , what type of ammo to use and how many rounds to use ( Within his restrictions ) . He will then call a Arty CP ( or the R CP ) and place his call for fire . If the FOO cannot observe the fall of shot he may have you send corrections ..... to him . 

The point is you will only get to direct the fire if the FOO cannot . 

FOO's are attached to supported arms depending on the commanders ( Team / Group ) intentions . So one day you may very well have a FOO attached to your troop/ squadron .

Hope this helps , 

Craig


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## Clément Barbeau Vermet (23 Oct 2005)

Thanks Craig.
And for the laser sensors, are they used to correct 81 mm rounds, howitzer rounds, or both? Is this really nececery? 
                                                                                                                     Clément


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## Craig B (24 Oct 2005)

The laser is not a sensor . It is used as a rangefinder . 

Is it necessary ? Yes . Makes the adjustment much faster than estimating it by eye . 

The laser rangefinders exist already , there is a manportable unit ( with tripod ) that has been in use by FOO's for about 15-20 years . 

The new system in the LAV III in integrated with GPS ( Possibly other sensors ) so it allows very fast and precise corrections . 

Craig


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## FoverF (27 Dec 2005)

Are there any present or planned laser-corrected artillery/mortar systems in the CF?


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## George Wallace (27 Dec 2005)

FoverF said:
			
		

> Are there any present or planned laser-corrected artillery/mortar systems in the CF?


 :brickwall:

I imagine the last line of the previous post should answer your question.  The answer, dated October 24, 2005, 22:22:32 is: 





> The laser rangefinders exist already , there is a manportable unit ( with tripod ) that has been in use by FOO's for about 15-20 years .
> 
> The new system in the LAV III in integrated with GPS ( Possibly other sensors ) so it allows very fast and precise corrections .


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## AmmoTech90 (27 Dec 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I imagine the last line of the previous post should answer your question.  The answer, dated October 24, 2005, 22:22:32 is:



George,

He may have been asking in reference to the gun sight itself.  The Brits have LINAPS (Laser Inertial Artillery Pointing System) mounted on their Light Guns and AS90s.  According to SFU the M777s are going to be fitted with it.  Perhaps the gunners around here can provide details.

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-artym777.htm

D


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## FoverF (31 Dec 2005)

Actually, I was referring to ammunition. 

Something like the Krasnopol series, laser guided version of Excalibur, Copperhead, anything like that. (I notice that the link says they're getting GPS-corrected Excalibur rounds. Does anyone know what kind of precision these have?) 


The Indians loved the heck out of their Krasnopols in the Kargil conflict, where they were about the only way of inflicting casualties on an enemy dug into bunkers in the mountains. The Russians also love them, and in their batteries they usually dedicate one tube or vehicle to firing laser-corrected rounds (as well as smoke and illumination, when needed). That way a FOO (or member of a Recon-Strike Complex) can just point a laser at something, and 30 seconds later it's dead. And I've heard quite a bit about the Americans using them too (although they seem to spread them out more evenly among their units), during the wars with Iraq. 

So the question is, does the CF have any system like this? We've got these fancy FOO vehicles, Coyotes and stuff for Recon, FACs, all of which are already toting around lasers (although not necessarily target designator lasers). Sometimes a one-shot kill can come in real handy (especially now that anti-tank firepower is headed for an all-time low)


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## blacktriangle (31 Dec 2005)

FoverF said:
			
		

> Recon




 > Careful.


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## Infanteer (31 Dec 2005)

FoverF said:
			
		

> (or member of a Recon-Strike Complex)



Is that related to *deep battle special ops*?


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## FoverF (31 Dec 2005)

As far as I'm aware (and anyone can correct me on this), the Russians use the term Reconnassance-Strike Complex to describe the teams formed by some of a regiment or division's recon assets, and organic and attached air/arty support. 

Their mission is not necessarily to contribute to the commander's overall situational awareness, like conventional recon, but mainly to find and kill targets as quickly as possible. They are (if I'm not mistaken), led by the artillery commander, and act as the 'artillery/aviation' branch of the combined arms force. Of course their information is passed to the regimental/divisional commander, but I think their main raison d'etre is to just bring down a whole ton of firepower within seconds of finding a target. 

It's not really a part of the 'deep battle' at all, just part of a regimental/divisional force. 

Although there may very well be similar special-ops organizations attached at the division/corps-level that function the same way with deep battle assets, I don't really know. Well outside my area of expertise.


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