# 3649 Asks:  MP Academy, Overtime & Time Off



## 3649 (5 Oct 2009)

Are there any MP's in the trade right now that can advised of what their paycheck looks like?

What are schedules/shifts like?

Are there a lot of overtime, court, other paid duties?

Overtime pay?


----------



## 1feral1 (5 Oct 2009)

You might work 'overtime', but you don't get paid for it.

Thats how it is.

Regards,

OWDU


----------



## gcclarke (5 Oct 2009)

Indeed. No member of the Canadian Armed Forces receives any type of "overtime" pay. The idea would be nice however! Hmmm time to right a letter to Treasury Board?


----------



## hugh19 (5 Oct 2009)

Do you mean write a letter, or do letters have rights now too?  ;D


----------



## gcclarke (5 Oct 2009)

sledge said:
			
		

> Do you mean write a letter, or do letters have rights now too?  ;D



Oi. Yeah. I never claimed I'm not an idiot at times.


----------



## dapaterson (5 Oct 2009)

Actually, all CF members get overtime pay; it's just that it's factored in to the base pay.

So, in other words, everyone gets overtime all the time to make up for the fact that you don't get paid overtime when you do work overtime.

(Side note:  Part of the problem with most pay discussions is that the overwhelming majority of CF members have no idea how pay rates are set, or what considerations are included.  And DGCB, the responsible agency, does not do a great job of communicating that, either.  "Some of the information is on our website" has become the new "It's in the regulations somewhere".  End rant.)


----------



## gcclarke (6 Oct 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Actually, all CF members get overtime pay; it's just that it's factored in to the base pay.
> 
> So, in other words, everyone gets overtime all the time to make up for the fact that you don't get paid overtime when you do work overtime.
> 
> (Side note:  Part of the problem with most pay discussions is that the overwhelming majority of CF members have no idea how pay rates are set, or what considerations are included.  And DGCB, the responsible agency, does not do a great job of communicating that, either.  "Some of the information is on our website" has become the new "It's in the regulations somewhere".  End rant.)



Sweet, so I'm getting paid overtime even though I am not, currently, working any overtime. I love this gig.


----------



## BlueJingo (6 Oct 2009)

gcclarke said:
			
		

> Sweet, so I'm getting paid overtime even though I am not, currently, working any overtime. I love this gig.



Yup getting paid for every day is nice...  8) too bad i still can't afford that hot tub...


----------



## MikeL (6 Oct 2009)

Jingo said:
			
		

> too bad i still can't afford that hot tub...



thats why the banks invented line of credit


----------



## 3649 (6 Oct 2009)

That is something that is not clear in beginning.  

Could somebody advise how much you get after two weeks in BMQ? After taxes?


----------



## PMedMoe (6 Oct 2009)

3649 said:
			
		

> That is something that is not clear in beginning.
> 
> Could somebody advise how much you get after two weeks in BMQ? After taxes?



What isn't clear?  In the CF you are paid a _salary_, not an hourly wage.

We are paid twice a month (not every two weeks) on the 15th and end month (30th or 31st depending on the month) or the closest working day prior to those dates.

Later on in your career, you may get extra allowances such as field pay (or LDA depending on your posting), TD, tour pay etc.  You will also receive pay raises as incentives or on promotions.

The current pay rates are posted here.  I'll let you figure out the taxes.

Link to pay on DGCB:  http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfncmr-mrfr-eng.asp


----------



## Roy Harding (6 Oct 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> What isn't clear?  In the CF you are paid a _salary_, not an hourly wage.
> 
> We are paid twice a month (not every two weeks) on the 15th and end month (30th or 31st depending on the month) or the closest working day prior to those dates.
> 
> ...



Good info.

Small correction.  Y'all are paid ONCE a month, approximately half of it is deposited in the bank twice in a month.


----------



## PMedMoe (6 Oct 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Small correction.  Y'all are paid ONCE a month, approximately half of it is deposited in the bank twice in a month.



Thanks, Roy.  I knew a clerk (or former clerk) would correct that.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (6 Oct 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Good info.
> 
> Small correction.  Y'all are paid ONCE a month, approximately half of it is deposited in the bank twice in a month.



Unless you are a "rental" but then our pay is delayed by one pay period.

 ;D


----------



## 3649 (8 Oct 2009)

Now I understand that after BMQ there is an automatic promotion to Corporal.  However after Corporal, what are the qualifications which are assessed in order to further promote an MP?  Do promotions come often?  

Also one more question for somebody with experience:

After the MP-Academy, is there a chance that one can be deployed overseas immediately after the Academy to a mission, or do all of the MP's have to complete the one year "probationary" period domestically first?


----------



## PMedMoe (8 Oct 2009)

3649 said:
			
		

> Now I understand that after BMQ there is an automatic promotion to Corporal.



Really?  Someone owes me some back pay!


----------



## Redeye (8 Oct 2009)

Only for meatheads, Moe


----------



## Redeye (8 Oct 2009)

Further promotions are based on courses, leadership courses to get to MCpl and beyond.

As for deployments, a good friend of mine was about six months out of the school in Borden before he headed off to Afghanistan, another friend had about the same time line, but it will vary with where you are posted.



			
				3649 said:
			
		

> Now I understand that after BMQ there is an automatic promotion to Corporal.  However after Corporal, what are the qualifications which are assessed in order to further promote an MP?  Do promotions come often?
> 
> Also one more question for somebody with experience:
> 
> After the MP-Academy, is there a chance that one can be deployed overseas immediately after the Academy to a mission, or do all of the MP's have to complete the one year "probationary" period domestically first?


----------



## PMedMoe (8 Oct 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Only for meatheads, Moe



And musicians too, IIRC.


----------



## dapaterson (8 Oct 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> And musicians too, IIRC.



No.  They are Sgts, not Cpls (less the Reserves).


----------



## FastEddy (8 Oct 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Only for meatheads, Moe




Whether things have changed that much , I don,t know, but its been my experience that Military Policemen/women usually don't appreciate the expression "Meathead", any more than LEO's appreciate Dicks,Pigs or Flatfoots. It is strange that these terms are never uttered in person face to face and/or dealings with breaches of the Law.

However, the use or referral by members of the Officer Corps I find very inappropriate, and the vast majority don't.


----------



## mariomike (8 Oct 2009)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> but its been my experience that Military Policemen/women usually don't appreciate the expression "Meathead",



I wonder if the term came because of the red cap covers? ie: red meat? In a war, they do look a bit like they have been dipped in blood.
The term goes back at least as far as WW2 in the CF.
At any rate, Archie Bunker certainly got a lot of mileage out of the term!


----------



## Redeye (8 Oct 2009)

I have several friends who are Military Policemen, and none of whom seem to take any real offence to the term, as it is only meant in jest just as the nicknames which exist for virtually all arms and services.  In fact, that's what most of them seem to refer to themselves as in friendly company.  In any case, if you have been offended I do apologize.



			
				FastEddy said:
			
		

> Whether things have changed that much , I don,t know, but its been my experience that Military Policemen/women usually don't appreciate the expression "Meathead", any more than LEO's appreciate Dicks,Pigs or Flatfoots. It is strange that these terms are never uttered in person face to face and/or dealings with breaches of the Law.
> 
> However, the use or referral by members of the Officer Corps I find very inappropriate, and the vast majority don't.


----------



## 2 Cdo (8 Oct 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> I have several friends who are Military Policemen, and none of whom seem to take any real offence to the term, as it is only meant in jest just as the nicknames which exist for virtually all arms and services.  In fact, that's what most of them seem to refer to themselves as in friendly company.  In any case, if you have been offended I do apologize.



Same here Redeye, in fact most of my MP friends use the term more than I do! I guess they are just a little more-thick skinned than some of their peers.


----------



## medaid (8 Oct 2009)

No so... the term is a slang, and most often used by people who find MPs being a distasteful, and often back stabbing MOC (having nothing to do but write people up). 

I can see how some members can be offended by it, and some others not so much. But the comparison is equal to calling a CivPol member a derogatory term related to their employment.


----------



## 2 Cdo (8 Oct 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> No so... the term is a slang, and most often used by people who find MPs being a distasteful, and often back stabbing MOC (having nothing to do but write people up).
> 
> I can see how some members can be offended by it, and some others not so much. But the comparison is equal to calling a CivPol member a derogatory term related to their employment.



I guess my MP friends find their jobs distasteful and filled with backstabbers. : It's a nickname that has been used probably as long as there has been MP's. In the infantry we have countless nicknames that are "derogatory" even though we use them amongst ourselves. I guess I just have more important things to worry about than whether or not a nickname is derogatory.


----------



## mariomike (8 Oct 2009)

I found mention of "the word" on page 38 of this online book which would date the origin back to World War Two:
"Lamone: A novel about the Canadian Army in the Italian Campaign in World War II"
"Good Lord, a 'meathead' policeman, and we have to make him into an RCR! You can be damn sure all these service units are dumping all their 'deadheads' on us."
http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Irrs8QGnNIC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=meathead+canadian+provost&source=bl&ots=569kWVDiqY&sig=jNQzjsESKi0Qud2Eg75pqQ7yLjs&hl=en&ei=kjDOSuXqE5GHlAfx0LypCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=meathead%20canadian%20provost&f=true


----------



## medaid (8 Oct 2009)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> I guess my MP friends find their jobs distasteful and filled with backstabbers. : It's a nickname that has been used probably as long as there has been MP's. In the infantry we have countless nicknames that are "derogatory" even though we use them amongst ourselves. I guess I just have more important things to worry about than whether or not a nickname is derogatory.



Whatever you may think, it still offends people who doesn't like being called that. I've got plenty of MP friends as well, but trust me, more people misunderstand the roles of MPs in the CF like civies with CivPol. 

That's also it, it's okay for you to use it amongst yourselves because you joke about it and what not, but when someone else calls you that behind your back or in your face, it gets some people's blood going. 

If you work MP/CivPol and get constantly bombarded with assholes that can't sort their crap out, and has to have you sort it out for them, you'd get a little annoyed too when the same shit rats calls you a derogatory slang.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (8 Oct 2009)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Whether things have changed that much , I don,t know, but its been my experience that Military Policemen/women usually don't appreciate the expression "Meathead", any more than LEO's appreciate Dicks,Pigs or Flatfoots. It is strange that these terms are never uttered in person face to face and/or dealings with breaches of the Law.
> 
> However, the use or referral by members of the Officer Corps I find very inappropriate, and the vast majority don't.



It's no different than calling an armoured guy a zipperhead, an infanteer a grunt or an engineer a thumper. Mature, moderate thinking people just consider the source and act accordingly.


----------



## Roy Harding (8 Oct 2009)

I think you're being overly sensitive there, MedTech.

All trades have their "nicknames" - and most of them aren't complimentary, if taken apart.

I was a "pencil pusher", you are a "pecker checker", my wife was a "bin rat", I have friends who are "meat heads", "grunts", "zipperheads", "herbies", "hairy asses", and the list goes on.

The military (please Gawd), may be the last bastion standing against political correctness - political correctness being a wellhead of foolishness I find bewildering.

There ARE some terms which are INTENDED to be demeaning, and are used with that intention.  Such is USUALLY not the case with the nicknames we have for each other within the military - I don't think anybody here meant to insult anybody else - let it go.


----------



## medaid (8 Oct 2009)

Roy,

   I was just speaking from a different perspective that's all. I personally don't care, but can see why some would. I'm merely voicing things from their opinion.


----------



## mariomike (8 Oct 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> The military (please Gawd), may be the last bastion standing against political correctness



Where have I heard that before?  
http://books.google.ca/books?id=FYgAUqpDVZYC&pg=PA86&dq=200+years+of++unimpeded+by+progress#v=onepage&q=200%20years%20of%20%20unimpeded%20by%20progress&f=true


----------



## 2 Cdo (8 Oct 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Roy,
> 
> I was just speaking fron a different perspective that's all. I personally don't care, but can see why some would. I'm merely voicing things from their opinion.



Their opinion? Methinks it is your own, but whatever. I promise to never use the term again when the first MP I use it with takes offence. As others have stated every trade has nicknames, most not even remotely politically correct. I belong to the infantry and once with the airborne and have heard the gamut of un-PC nicknames and I react exactly like I said before, and as a follow up to that I concur 100% with recceguys last line.


----------



## Roy Harding (8 Oct 2009)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Their opinion? Methinks it is your own, but whatever. I promise to never use the term again when the first MP I use it with takes offence. As others have stated every trade has nicknames, most not even remotely politically correct. I belong to the infantry and once with the airborne and have heard the gamut of un-PC nicknames and I react exactly like I said before, and as a follow up to that I concur 100% with recceguys last line.



OK, "lawn dart"


----------



## mariomike (8 Oct 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> OK, "lawn dart"



Younger readers may not recognise the origin of that term, Roy. Canada banned lawn darts aka "death with fins"  20 years ago:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/Lawndart.jpg
Even the sale of second hand lawn darts is prohibited. We used to enjoy that game when we were kids. Nearly killed, but Big Time thrilled.
Now replaced by something safer, but less fun: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornhole


----------



## 2 Cdo (8 Oct 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> OK, "lawn dart"



That's one of the nice ones! Usually uttered by "legs" or "wogs". Can you feel the love? 8)


----------



## X-mo-1979 (8 Oct 2009)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> The military (please Gawd), may be the last bastion standing against political correctness - political correctness being a wellhead of foolishness I find bewildering.



Roy I have to warn you I am surprised that "ironman" is still the name of a competition,and master seaman is still a rank.Ever get in trouble for having a girl in a bathing suit up inside a locked locker?
I have.

It wouldnt surprise me for one second someone getting charged with harassment for calling someone a grunt,zipperhead etc.


----------



## 2 Cdo (8 Oct 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Roy I have to warn you I am surprised that "ironman" is still the name of a competition,and master seaman is still a rank.Ever get in trouble for having a girl in a bathing suit up inside a locked locker?
> I have.
> 
> It wouldnt surprise me for one second someone getting charged with harassment for calling someone a grunt,zipperhead etc.



I am just a reservist these days but the day someone is charged and found guilty of harrassment for calling someone a nickname is the day I give my 30 days notice and walk away from the madness.


----------



## 1feral1 (9 Oct 2009)

3649 said:
			
		

> Now I understand that after BMQ there is an automatic promotion to Corporal.



This is news to me. 

I think someone has been telling you porky-pies mate.

Regards,

OWDU

Only EDITs to say "don't believe everything you hear."


----------



## RHC_2_MP (9 Oct 2009)

As far as this discussion has come from overtime pay...don't get me started...as far as I know, the term Meatheat...is actually meet head.  Whereas during WWI and II when MPs were used as security along a front or at the entrance to where ever, they would be on guard in a trench.  As the incoming patrol would approach, they would be challenged and then would advance and, "meet the head", hence meet head.  As for me, you can call me meathead as much as you want, as long as you can take a zipperhead/lawn dart, in return...no worries.


----------



## stukirkpatrick (9 Oct 2009)

> Ever get in trouble for having a girl in a bathing suit up inside a locked locker?
> I have



...Well unlawful confinement is a whole separate issue...   :blotto:

I think that the usage of "meat head" against MPs is a little different than the plethora of derogatory names thrown at the civilian police - as has been pointed out, every branch of the forces has its own nicknames, and at the end of the day everyone is on the same team (right??).

I didn't know that MPs didn't get overtime.  Does that mean that if a large incident occurs at a smaller base/detachment, MP's not on shift can be called out without any kind of standby bonus??  If that's OPSEC, let me know.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (9 Oct 2009)

RHC_2_MP said:
			
		

> As far as this discussion has come from overtime pay...don't get me started...as far as I know, the term Meatheat...is actually meet head.  Whereas during WWI and II when MPs were used as security along a front or at the entrance to where ever, they would be on guard in a trench.  As the incoming patrol would approach, they would be challenged and then would advance and, "meet the head", hence meet head.  As for me, you can call me meathead as much as you want, as long as you can take a zipperhead/lawn dart, in return...no worries.



In my 40 some odd years with the CF, I have never heard that one. That is so far a stretch, it sounds like someone concocted a story to justify a legend. Ten beers later, and that's the best they could manage? I can almost say unequivocally, it's bullshit.

Even if it were so, it is not the 'meat head' conotation that everyone associates with the MPs today


----------



## Cansky (9 Oct 2009)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> This is news to me.
> 
> I think someone has been telling you porky-pies mate.
> 
> ...


----------



## George Wallace (9 Oct 2009)

Three pages of dribble.  


NOT ONE PERSON serving in the CF is paid OVERTIME;  PERIOD.



Discussions on derogatory terminology and nicknames are covered in other threads.


TOPIC LOCKED!


----------



## 3649 (19 Oct 2009)

I have some questions regarding the MP Academy.Are MP recruits who are at the Academy stage allowed to leave the base on weekends?  Also, is the Academy a 9-5, M-F type deal or is it just like BMQ?

Can you leave the base after hours on week days?

Schedule?

Thanks.


----------



## George Wallace (19 Oct 2009)

Perhaps it is time you did a little bit of reading.  You would find your answers, before you even had your questions.


----------



## 3649 (19 Oct 2009)

I read your reply, and no, I did not get the answer.  

If anybody has info regarding my question, could you please shed some light?


----------



## Loachman (19 Oct 2009)

You seem to obsess about money and time off more than anything else.


----------



## 3649 (20 Oct 2009)

Once again, that did not answer my question.  You obviously wasted your time replying to that where as you could have just provided the answer instead of being a smart a**.

And no, I am not obsessed with the money and time off.  It is just not clear.  I would like to know what the schedule for the CFMPA is.  Wouldn't you want to know what you are getting into, or would you not like to have some information before you get into the work?  As a potential recruit, I would like to gather some more information and I came to this forum to do so which is one of the purposes of this forum. 

But now I have found the answer to my question...There must be a lot of time off if people like you can sit here and waste your time on an irrelevant reply to a simple, honest question.

Excuse me, but I apologize for being curious and interested in the trade.  I would think the CF wants motivated individuals.


----------



## Roy Harding (21 Oct 2009)

3649 said:
			
		

> Once again, that did not answer my question.  You obviously wasted your time replying to that where as you could have just provided the answer instead of being a smart a**.
> 
> And no, I am not obsessed with the money and time off.  It is just not clear.  I would like to know what the schedule for the CFMPA is.  Wouldn't you want to know what you are getting into, or would you not like to have some information before you get into the work?  As a potential recruit, I would like to gather some more information and I came to this forum to do so which is one of the purposes of this forum.
> 
> ...



That would be YOUR fault, wouldn't it.

For the record - I'm retired from the CF and self-employed.  Sometimes I'm here for hours on end, sometimes I'm absent for days on end - it all depends on what's happening at the moment.

No need to apologize for that.  You might want to apologize for your tone and quickness to attempt to belittle those helping you.


----------

