# GG's request to visit Afghanistan denied twice



## vangemeren (31 May 2006)

*GG's request to visit Afghanistan denied twice*
Updated Wed. May. 31 2006 6:37 AM ET

Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean has asked and been twice denied a greenlight to visit troops in Afghanistan while watching the prime minister and foreign affairs minister make the same visit, The Canadian Press has learned.

Sources say security concerns were cited as a reason for advising the Governor General not to make the same trip made by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay.

Jean, who is commander-in-chief of Canada's armed forces, told military officials early this year she wanted to visit the Kandahar military base, where 2,200 Canadian troops are stationed.

The Governor General also asked to visit Canadian aid workers at a nearby provincial reconstruction camp.

But she was told such a trip would be fraught with danger and it would be best if she waited. 

She was also told that the trip could compromise military operations.

Jean then watched the prime minister make the very same trip in March after she was advised by DND officials not to go.

Jean asked again after Harper and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor made their surprise visit to the strife-torn country.

Again, Jean was told conditions on the ground were too dangerous to permit a trip to the region.

Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay made his own surprise trip to Afghanistan earlier this month after the Governor General's second request was given the cold shoulder.

"It was deemed that they would look at a date later on,'' said one federal official.

"They will look at an appropriate date but that date has not been found.''

That official said that Jean's desire to visit aid workers outside the main base complicated matters. 

However, Harper, MacKay and O'Connor have all made the 15-minute journey by helicopter to visit soldiers in the provincial reconstruction team.



The teams include RCMP officers, Canadian development workers, and Foreign Affairs diplomats training their Afghan counterparts.

One source with knowledge of the discussions said the Governor General's initial interest in going to Afghanistan was greeted enthusiastically by military officials, who saw the journey by the popular head of state as a morale-booster.

The governor general received encouragement from Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier, Canada's senior military official. But he warned her that the timing wasn't right.

"We're doing a lot of stuff on the ground over there,'' said military spokesman Capt. Vance White.

"We need to make sure everything is secure _ both for any visitors that go over and to make sure ongoing operations . . . go off without any concerns.''

Former governor general Adrienne Clarkson visited Canadian troops in Afghanistan on New Year's Day 2005. Those soldiers were based in the relatively more secure environment of the capital of Kabul.

Harper spent three days on the base in March. He also visited the reconstruction camp, where he spoke to government workers and toured a training facility for bomb-defusing experts.

The base and camp are located at the opposite ends of Kandahar. Canadian troops have been attacked by insurgents while passing through the antiquated city of mud-brick huts and dusty desert patches.

The Governor General apparently wants to go badly enough that she might simply offer to limit her visit to the heavily guarded base.

"If the security situation continues to be somewhat tenuous (she) will rethink . . . (her) program.''


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060530/jean_afghan_060530/20060531?hub=Canada


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (31 May 2006)

I'm just wondering if its because of the size of her entourage that would go also.......


----------



## HItorMiss (31 May 2006)

Perhaps this isn't the best reply I have ever crafted...

But she should keep her seperatist butt the heck away from most of the military members I have ever talked to about how they feel about Ms Jean.

my .02

That goes double for me, I havent a got a second of time for that woman unless I was ordered to and even then after a quick Mam I would leave.


----------



## pbi (31 May 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Perhaps this isn't the best reply I have ever crafted...
> 
> But she should keep her seperatist butt the heck away from most of the military members I have ever talked to about how they feel about Ms Jean.
> 
> ...



You do realize you're speaking about our Commander-in-Chief? If she's as undeserving of her office as you seem to think, maybe you could explain to us just why that might be? Don't you think the troops in Kandahar should have a visit from their CinC? After all, meeting our soldiers face-to-face seems to have a pretty powerful positive effect on everybdy from NDP MPs to  entertainers to reporters, so maybe it would do HE a bit of good?

Cheers


----------



## KevinB (31 May 2006)

No longer my CC - but I would applaud her going.


----------



## HItorMiss (31 May 2006)

Wow took longer then I thought to be called on that one.

Yes I am well aware she is my Commander and Chief that would be why I would have the proper respect for her title and call her mam. However I do indeed feel she is totally undeserving of her postion as the GG and especially as the CinC, "Her Excellency" raised glasses with what I and I believe any non separatist would call treasonus criminals in celebration of their deeds and crimes and for the separation of Quebec. Regardless of saying what not after the fact it says a lot to me in my mind about where her loyalties truly lie.

The argument could be made I suppose that she was just their with her film maker husband who was doing a documentary but I would argue the look of sincerity on her face while discussing the issue of separation from Canada was genuine and that she believes it herself, how then can she expect my support other then of course the way I must treat her as a person in uniform. I have the utmost respect for the postion of Governor General and all the power therein what I do not have is a ounce of respect for the woman that currently now fills that position.


----------



## TMM (31 May 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I'm just wondering if its because of the size of her entourage that would go also.......



My cynical side says it's because she doesn't have to win an election next time round..


----------



## GAP (31 May 2006)

I think she should go. She is the CIC, she represents the Queen, and as much as I found her appointment manner distasteful, she has come across as a pretty good representative of the government.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (31 May 2006)

......





			
				TMM said:
			
		

> My cynical side says it's because she doesn't have to win an election next time round..



Where my cynical side says maybe she purposefully asks to do things she *cough* somehow knows cannot be done and it looks like the Govt. of the day, *cough*not the one she likes, is trying to control [ hmmm, press corps friends anybody?] even her position.

EDIT: forgot to put in the "maybe",....too many conspiracy stooges on the web as it is.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (31 May 2006)

I would think being the CinC that she could just 'order' to be taken over. Everyone could give their reasons for her not going, then she could just say "Yeah, that's cool, take me anyway, and by next week" I have a nagging feeling Madam Clarkson wouldn't have taken no for an answer, but that's neither here nor there.


----------



## vangemeren (31 May 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I'm just wondering if its because of the size of her entourage that would go also.......



Would it be that much larger than the PM's entourage? (Yes I know the exact details are top secret, but generally.)


My turn to conjecture:

Maybe they care more about the GG more than the PM


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (31 May 2006)

van Gemeren said:
			
		

> Would it be that much larger than the PM's entourage? (Yes I know the exact details are top secret, but generally.)



Not sure, but, wasn't our previous GG's entourage rather huge, even as far as those things go?


----------



## HItorMiss (31 May 2006)

I only remember seeing 6 or so, not including her VIP protection team of course. The PM's staff was larger


----------



## TMM (31 May 2006)

Clarkson's entourage was well above average FWIR.

I say let her go and cap the people she can bring with her.


----------



## GAP (31 May 2006)

Yeah, but if they get totally annoying, we could always get them to help marking the shots in the practise butts out on the range

I can visualize it now: "now you just poke you head up here and watch for holes to appear, then you quickly reach up and apply a patch so he can see where he hit"...."yep...just like that"...oops...ahhh :


----------



## Journeyman (31 May 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Yeah, but if they get totally annoying, we could always get them to help marking the shots in the practise butts out on the range
> 
> I can visualize it now: "now you just poke you head up here and watch for holes to appear, then you quickly reach up and apply a patch so he can see where he hit"...."yep...just like that"...oops...ahhh :



LOL - - I thought that's what TMM meant when she said "let her go and 'cap' the people she can bring with her"  (but I know TMM isn't like _that_  >  )


----------



## pbi (31 May 2006)

If the GG is the unrepentant separatist some people obviously see her as, maybe meeting the men and women in uniform for whom Canada is more than just a source of transfer payments might be a good way of "bringing her around", if that's really necessary, which I'm not sure it is.

Cheers


----------



## TMM (31 May 2006)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> LOL - - I thought that's what TMM meant when she said "let her go and 'cap' the people she can bring with her"  (but I know TMM isn't like _that_  >  )



Oops - cut me some slack I'm still trying to recall how to speak army!


----------



## Michael Dorosh (31 May 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Wow took longer then I thought to be called on that one.
> 
> Yes I am well aware she is my Commander and Chief that would be why I would have the proper respect for her title and call her mam. However I do indeed feel she is totally undeserving of her postion as the GG and especially as the CinC, "Her Excellency" raised glasses with what I and I believe any non separatist would call treasonus criminals in celebration of their deeds and crimes and for the separation of Quebec. Regardless of saying what not after the fact it says a lot to me in my mind about where her loyalties truly lie.
> 
> The argument could be made I suppose that she was just their with her film maker husband who was doing a documentary but I would argue the look of sincerity on her face while discussing the issue of separation from Canada was genuine and that she believes it herself, how then can she expect my support other then of course the way I must treat her as a person in uniform. I have the utmost respect for the postion of Governor General and all the power therein what I do not have is a ounce of respect for the woman that currently now fills that position.



Wow, so anyone you don't respect personally is not entitled to be treated with civility. Did you learn that from the Liberal Party? Seems to me that was always the complaint about their treatment of the military - didn't understand us, didn't like us, didn't treat us with respect. What goes around comes around.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (31 May 2006)

Actually Michael, he DID state that he would treat her with the respect HER POSITION entitled her too......where's the beef?


----------



## KevinB (31 May 2006)

I think Mike's beef was the internet version of Silent Insolence.

I never have thought she should have been GG - but since SHE IS - she should be accorded all the whoopdeydoo that goes along with it -- Inc the right to visit troops


----------



## Michael Dorosh (31 May 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Actually Michael, he DID state that he would treat her with the respect HER POSITION entitled her too......where's the beef?



He said he'd salute her but walk away if expected to respond.

I don't see what the vitriol is about. If the GG was a separatist in the past, I think she's entitled to that point of view. Free country and all that.  Who's to say a separate Quebec wouldn't be better in the long run, anyway. But that's a separate fight. Point being, you can wish for PQ to seperate and still love Canada.

Regardless, she took an oath upon being made GG, same as any soldier. So even if she thought that, she wouldn't act on it in office.

Just seems like sour grapes to me.

KB - I always liked the old official title - "Dumb insolence".  Seems to sum it up so nicely.


----------



## HItorMiss (31 May 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> _*Yes I am well aware she is my Commander and Chief that would be why I would have the proper respect for her title and call her mam.*_



Micheal I'm not sure what your getting at, as my Commander and Chief she would get the respect of her postion requires. I would call her Mam though I believe if I remember protocol when first addressing her it would be "your Excellency" and in fact I did say I would do that. After that though unless I was ordered to stay in her company I would make myself scarce


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (31 May 2006)

Thanks, HOM, I was just reading back your posts when you posted this cause I thought maybe I missed something..........no beef here.


----------



## HItorMiss (31 May 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> He said he'd salute her but walk away if expected to respond.



Your putting words in my mouth or you just didn't get what I was trying to convey, the fact remains she has a postion of respect to the military do to her title as such she should be accorded all the toodoo that goes with it (parades salutes etc etc etc) however should it be a matter of my choice as to remaining in her company once my task as a soldier is complete (such as being at the parade or being her escort etc etc) I would beat a hasty retreat, the reason being that while I respect the postion and can do my duties for that postion I will not unless ordered to spend my time with someone I do not respect.

*Edit: Part of post removed as it was clarified by Mr Dorsh (thank you btw).


----------



## Michael Dorosh (31 May 2006)

No personal attack intended - "dumb" means "silence" in this case.


----------



## KevinB (31 May 2006)

it's Ma'am BTW


----------



## HItorMiss (31 May 2006)

Seen 

And here I was arguing that I was intelligent... ;D


----------

