# Snow Shoes



## Foofighter (30 Nov 2007)

Hey, just wondering if anyone could tell me how I am supposed to put my bindings onto the snowshoes...  Mine came separate so I am left wondering how to lace them properly...  Pictures would help to!


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## HItorMiss (30 Nov 2007)

You know you coud always take them with you to your unit on parade night and get one of your peers in your section to help...or maybe your friendly Section 2IC or Section Commander.


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## geo (30 Nov 2007)

well... given as you are new and will be receiving winter Indoc training at some time in the near future, why don't you put things asside for now and wait for your NCOs to show you the proper method?


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## Foofighter (30 Nov 2007)

Yea we have a winter ex starting tonight, just thought I would ask on here and see if there are maybe multiple methods of doing it.  Or is there is only one proper way to do it.  Thanks guys.


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## George Wallace (30 Nov 2007)

Foofighter said:
			
		

> Yea we have a winter ex starting tonight, just thought I would ask on here and see if there are maybe multiple methods of doing it.  Or is there is only one proper way to do it.  Thanks guys.



Kinda left it a little too late didn't you.  Yes there are many ways to attach the bindings, but only one or two that are correct and functionable.  Guess you will find out in a few hours when you go in for your Winter Indoc.


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## Scoobie Newbie (30 Nov 2007)

Are they like the picture above or the newer model?  P.S.  If you have the old model don't trade them in if you can.  Hell I don't even know if they're still issuing the new ones.


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## geo (30 Nov 2007)

You mean they have / had new ones?
Mine are about 30 yrs old.... still work like a charm though frayed in some places


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## chrisf (30 Nov 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Are they like the picture above or the newer model?  P.S.  If you have the old model don't trade them in if you can.  Hell I don't even know if they're still issuing the new ones.



They bought new ones, started to issue them, then discovered that while a bear paw is much more manouverable then a beavertail, it won't hold up a fully kitted troop, or so the story goes.


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## retiredgrunt45 (30 Nov 2007)

> well... given as you are new and will be receiving winter Indoc training at some time in the near future, why don't you put things asside for now and wait for your NCOs to show you the proper method?



"Ditto"

 You have to crawl before you walk. 

There are a two ways to do things, everybody elses way and the "right way". Listen to your instructors and they will show you the right way. Believe me when it comes to snowshoes and using them there is only one way, you guessed it...


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## armyvern (1 Dec 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> You mean they have / had new ones?
> Mine are about 30 yrs old.... still work like a charm though frayed in some places



You must have missed that message from about 3 years ago which directed all pers to turn in their old style snowshoes as there is no more individual entitlement to hold them on charge?  

Run a search -- it's here somewhere!!


 >


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## TCBF (1 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> You must have missed that message from about 3 years ago which directed all pers to turn in their old style snowshoes as there is no more individual entitlement to hold them on charge?
> 
> Run a search -- it's here somewhere!!
> >



- Yup, after 28 years, they took back my snowshoes.  No more snowshoe soccer PT to warm up those snowshoieng muscles for Winter Indoc.  The defence of western civilization needs those things in the depot, not in the hands of young soldiers who need to learn how to walk in them.


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## armyvern (1 Dec 2007)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - Yup, after 28 years, they took back my snowshoes.  No more snowshoe soccer PT to warm up those snowshoieng muscles for Winter Indoc.  The defence of western civilization needs those things in the depot, not in the hands of young soldiers who need to learn how to walk in them.



They didn't go back to depots though. They are now held as contingency loan pool stock in the MSA accounts on the base; available en masse (like pugil sticks -- that never seem to be requested these days ...) for exactly the things you outline above.

First line field Units have been issued the new type onto their CFFET's for issue to individuals within their Units.

Perhaps maybe -- someone is just keeping up with the global warming forecasts ... in that we won't require snowshoe indoctrination in this vast nation for long??  ???   :-X


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## geo (1 Dec 2007)

.... whups... quite possible my showshoes fell off the books at one time or another.

Gawd - how did that happen?

My last DA check as RQ balanced - all snowshoes present and accounted for....?

Will have to think about this one.... a bit.


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## Scoobie Newbie (1 Dec 2007)

Don't lose those old school shoes.


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## Roy Harding (1 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> You must have missed that message from about 3 years ago which directed all pers to turn in their old style snowshoes as there is no more individual entitlement to hold them on charge?
> 
> Run a search -- it's here somewhere!!
> 
> ...



JESUS!  Does that mean that those snowshoes that I "somehow" managed to acquire and retain after release are illegal?

Tell me it ain't so - I NEED them around here when I take the dog for her walk!  I'm actually thinking about making a set (of four) for the dog - seriously.

I couldn't get from my front door to the road without them during the winter here (and I'm not kidding).


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## Greymatters (2 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Perhaps maybe -- someone is just keeping up with the global warming forecasts ... in that we won't require snowshoe indoctrination in this vast nation for long??  ???   :-X



Those guys cant make up their minds - does global warming mean things get warm or do they get cold?   I got a foot and a half of snow today and its being blamed on 'global warming' too.  They're as bad as economic forecasters...


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## TCBF (2 Dec 2007)

- With the demise of the Arnprior-built Magline snowshoe, did the ladies of the Golden Lake First Nation get to work on the new ones, too?  They were, IIRC, the ones who threaded the Aircraft wire webbing onto the old magnesium snowshoe frames.

- If you still have the old ones at home, do not - NOT - allow someone to snip off a bit of magnesium from the trail of the snowshoe and put it on a hot stove element to see if it burns bright.  It will.


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## daftandbarmy (2 Dec 2007)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - With the demise of the Arnprior-built Magline snowshoe, did the ladies of the Golden Lake First Nation get to work on the new ones, too?  They were, IIRC, the ones who threaded the Aircraft wire webbing onto the old magnesium snowshoe frames.
> 
> - If you still have the old ones at home, do not - NOT - allow someone to snip off a bit of magnesium from the trail of the snowshoe and put it on a hot stove element to see if it burns bright.  It will.



I've never seen the new ones. What do they look like?

The old ones were good in dry snow. Don't do as well here in the mountains on the 'Wet Coast' though.


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## armyvern (3 Dec 2007)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I've never seen the new ones. What do they look like?
> 
> The old ones were good in dry snow. Don't do as well here in the mountains on the 'Wet Coast' though.



Please search ... we've posted pics of them up on the site before -- in one of the other threads on snow shoes.


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## daftandbarmy (3 Dec 2007)

I did a quick search for photos and found these two threads:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26212.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23353.0.html

The photos on the 2nd link don't seem to be there anymore.

There's a photo of the new shoes on this link, though lacking some detail.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=33


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## Fusaki (4 Dec 2007)

> - If you still have the old ones at home, do not - NOT - allow someone to snip off a bit of magnesium from the trail of the snowshoe and put it on a hot stove element to see if it burns bright.  It will.



"Never, EVER, push the red button!!"

"uhhh... sure"

I've got old ones in the basement at the moment... and I suddenly have this urge to dig them out... I scare myself sometimes. >


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## Panzer Grenadier (5 Dec 2007)

I should really go get myself a pair of snowshoes for winter indoc, might be a little rough if I don't....


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## gore226 (5 Dec 2007)

I was researching the snowshoes we sell at work the other day....

http://www.gvsnowshoes.com/eng/index.html

Having no experience with the ones they made for the CF, the civie ones look pretty top notch........I only have 5 different styles in stock.

Gore


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## geo (6 Dec 2007)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> I should really go get myself a pair of snowshoes for winter indoc, might be a little rough if I don't....



If you go thru a winter indoc without practicing snowshoes, you haven't gone thru a winter indoc.


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## JBoyd (6 Dec 2007)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> "Never, EVER, push the red button!!"
> 
> "uhhh... sure"
> 
> I've got old ones in the basement at the moment... and I suddenly have this urge to dig them out... I scare myself sometimes. >



TTIWWOP


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## Panzer Grenadier (8 Dec 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> If you go thru a winter indoc without practicing snowshoes, you haven't gone thru a winter indoc.



Practicing snowshoes means issue snowshoes, which is what I need to get.  Now whether they will give them to me is another story.


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> Practicing snowshoes means issue snowshoes, which is what I need to get.  Now whether they will give them to me is another story.



If you are in a first line field Unit, then your supporting staff should be able to obtain these for your course 'en masse.'

As I stated before, there is no longer an entitlement for individuals to be issued these items unless posted into that first line field Unit; even then, those troops are issued on a temp basis for the duration of that posting from the Unit CFFET.

Ask me if I agree with that -- my answer would be "no." One man -- One kit. Each field soldier should be issued their snow shoes permanently onto their clothing docs for retention throughout their postings/taskings and career.

The reasoning you'll hear for it not being so with the new generation snowshoes is that it costs too much money on an already tight CF budget dealing with a major deployed international operation. My personal thoughts are that the monies saved by cutting the adminny leg-work by 1st Line Unit Sup Techs (who are already vastly overburdened with crap work being re-directed at them from second line -- where it should be) and the manhours required to issue/return/issue/return/issue/return over and over again with this new "way ahead" would itself pay for enough snowshoes for the entire Army ... and perhaps the Air Force too. And, just look at the PYs it would save for both the troops requiring the snow shoes ... and the ones who get to see the same smiling faces on the same troops showing up a couple times a week to get issued them/return them/get issued them ... yadda yadda yadda.


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2007)

Guess I must be lucky Vern I still got mine permanently issued.


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## Panzer Grenadier (8 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern, I'm a reservist based in Ottawa, so I would have to go to NDHQ to get them.  Not being in a first line field unit, I highly doubt I could acquire the new, or possibly the older version, pair of snowshoes.  When I've gone previously, half the time they have been very 'stingy' is probably the best way to put it in issuing me any kit.  I shall have to see if I will be able to get a pair from NDHQ.


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> Guess I must be lucky Vern I still got mine permanently issued.



The old type?

Or the new type?

If the new type -- I guarantee they're not permantenly issued to you. They'd have been signed for on a Temp Loan card at your Unit.

If the old type -- your Unit is another who obviously doesn't action recall messages years old now. No worries -- I hear that NDHQ is in the process of running all the IAs (Individual Accounts -- ie Clothing Docs) to send out a nice big spreadsheet to all clothing support groups -- detailing the particulars of those who have not yet complied with the message direction.

Much like they do with the barrack boxes ...


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2007)

Your unit QM should be issuing them out when you need them. Sounds like your Quarter Master ain`t doin the job.


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> ArmyVern, I'm a reservist based in Ottawa, so I would have to go to NDHQ to get them.  Not being in a first line field unit, I highly doubt I could acquire the new, or possibly the older version, pair of snowshoes.  When I've gone previously, half the time they have been very 'stingy' is probably the best way to put it in issuing me any kit.  I shall have to see if I will be able to get a pair from NDHQ.



Snow shoes ARE NOT a clothing stores item any more. We DO NOT stock or issue them any more. Fuck. The OLD snowshoes are held by MSAs -- and are NOT for individual issue, but rather are signed out in bulk to non-entitled Units (ie Units who are NOT entitled to the new snow shoes) via a TSR (Technical Support Request) submitted through the CoC via G4 Ops to the MSA.

If you are in an entitled FIELD UNIT, then you will be able to get the NEW snow shoes via a temp loan via your Unit's CFFET account. Period. So, talk to your QM at your Unit -- either the Unit is entitled or it's not.

If it's not, I'm quite sure that your winter indoc course staff have probably already submitted a TSR through the proper channels to obtain old style snowshoes for your courses use while it is in session. 

In either case -- I'm saving you some time here -- don't bother asking at clothing NDHQ -- like the rest of the national clothing stores -- they haven't stocked or issued snow shoes for about 3 years now. This really is nothing new.


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> Your unit QM should be issuing them out when you need them. Sounds like your Quarter Master ain`t doin the job.



Well, that answers my last question to you then -- you have them on a temp loan ... not a permanent issue.


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## Panzer Grenadier (8 Dec 2007)

Then you have saved me a bit of a drive and a large headache.


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2007)

Nope Vern mine aren`t on a temp loan card. They are on my personal equipment docs.


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> Then you have saved me a bit of a drive and a large headache.



I'm very glad to hear that ...


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> Nope Vern mine aren`t on a temp loan card. They are on my personal equipment docs.



That is a fancy way of saying "temp Loan."

They aren't issued to you on your electronic clothing docs -- they aren't permanently issued. You can call your paperwork a temp loan, a personal equipment doc, or whatever you wish ... but it isn't a permanent issue. If you're talking the old yellow clothing record -- read on, since they've been "not official" paperwork for quite some time now.

And please, don't tell me that the clothing docs at your Unit haven't been converted to the electronic CFSS IA version yet ... with permanent clothing and equipment issued to your IA, and non-permanent kit remaining on your temp loan paper records ... because that message mandating they be converted and placed "on-line" is also a couple of years old ... with the roll-over to have been completed by 01 Apr 2005. Geez, I love my new job ... the Sup policy & procedure compliance guru ... (I only knew the date because I just had to pull that message last week and forward to one of our local non-compliant ResF Units.) 

Your Unit is starting to scare me. No worries ... I'm sure that my fellow bin rat on this site from that big supporting clothing stores in your area, will just love coming across this thread!!  >


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2007)

to Vern


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> to Vern



 >

No sucking up. I _know_ that you're only trying to suck a pair of snowshoes out of me!!  ;D

(You'd be better off sucking up to Roy in an attempt to get his!!)


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> >
> 
> No sucking up. I _know_ that you're only trying to suck a pair of snowshoes out of me!!  ;D
> 
> (You'd be better off sucking up to Roy in an attempt to get his!!)



Now why would I want a pair of bear claws when I got a good pair of beaver tails in my garage?


Anyways enough of this.....

:cheers: Vern


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## Roy Harding (8 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> (You'd be better off sucking up to Roy in an attempt to get his!!)



Won't work.  They've had more use here than at anytime I've had them (with the possible exception of arctic exercises when I was Airborne).

You'd have to fight me for them - and I'm not sure you realize just how underhanded and sneaky us old WOs can be.  "Rules?  There are no rules."


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## armyvern (8 Dec 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Won't work.  They've had more use here than at anytime I've had them (with the possible exception of arctic exercises when I was Airborne).
> 
> You'd have to fight me for them - and I'm not sure you realize just how underhanded and sneaky us old WOs can be.  "Rules?  There are no rules."



Ohhhh!!!

Fight!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Take pics!!


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## Roy Harding (8 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Ohhhh!!!
> 
> Fight!!!
> 
> ...



My LOCREP is on another thread - ya'll are invited.


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## armyvern (9 Dec 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> My LOCREP is on another thread - ya'll are invited.



But I have no snow shoes!!  :'(


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## geo (9 Dec 2007)

(Lend ya mine  > )


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## armyvern (9 Dec 2007)

Gawd ... I sooooooo feel an aneurysm coming on.


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## Roy Harding (9 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> But I have no snow shoes!!  :'(



We can share mine.  This (sharing snowshoes) is a skill requiring teamwork, coordination, and close contact ...   Bring your high heeled boots and tartan skirt.


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