# Army Field Medical Course



## Armymedic (3 May 2005)

As an alternate thread from the SQ question.

As it stands right now, there is no dedicated fd training for medical personnel. The US army has the expert Fd medical badge which allows their medic to aspire to achieve a high level of skill. The US marines have their corpsman complete a fd oriented medical indoctrination prior to be deployed to their MOUs.

I feel Canada should have a 2-3 week fd course in Borden prior to posting to units, where medics are taught, trained and tested as army soldiers upon completion of their QL3 course. Pass/fail would be on two basic principles:
1. medical soundness based on TCCC and protocols taught in QL 3.
2. ability to be tactically effective (basically not getting yourself or anyone else killed)

Thoughts?


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## medicineman (3 May 2005)

I suppose we wouldn't be asking these things if they were taught in Basic or incoporated into the GMT side of the QL3 would we?  Instead of a separate course though, why not have it as part of the QL3 Field Phase.  After all, that's what they're supposed to be learning at that point - field medical techniques.  By that point (hopefully) they have done the PCP and clinical side of things, so switch to "combat medic mode", add the TCCC skill set along with battlefield survival training and the peculiarties of working in a Fd Amb/UMS setting.  It would make more sense to have people having the training in the back of their minds and a little rusty than having an intensely high learning curve when all of a sudden they go from comfy MIR to Afghanistan or worse.

MM


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## Gunner98 (3 May 2005)

Not every QL3 ends up working in a UMS or a Fd Amb.  Those that are posted to the Fd Hosp or a CF H Svcs C would not benefit from an additional 2-3 weeks in Borden.  IMHO, unit knowledge and skills should be taught at the unit.


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## Zombie (3 May 2005)

I think the additional training would benefit all medical personnel coming out of the QL3. Whether there was an additional course or integrated combat training in the QL3, as long as the training is there it would produce more well-rounded medical personnel. After all, soldier first. That's my opinion anyway, take it for what it's worth from someone who has yet to spend a day in the military.


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## Armymedic (4 May 2005)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Not every QL3 ends up working in a UMS or a Fd Amb.   Those that are posted to the Fd Hosp or a CF H Svcs C would not benefit from an additional 2-3 weeks in Borden.   IMHO, unit knowledge and skills should be taught at the unit.



Actually Fd hosp is army too and thier medics are deployed overseas right besides the Fd Amb ones, as well as working in the units when fd amb is under strength, as are thier nurses and HCA's. (as you know cause you are there right now)

Its better then whilst they are still fairly new and somewhat eager to do this course.


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## medicineman (5 May 2005)

To add to Armymedic, they are already in Borden, doing a "field ops" phase of their training, so why not just add it on or rearrange to CTP to accomadate it?

MM


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## Gunner98 (5 May 2005)

I disagree Gents.   The UMS will soon be a thing of the past in garrison.   Each UMS, Fd Amb, Health Svc Centre etc is different.   

Fd Hosp HCA and nurses backfilling at Fd Ambs - really?   The Fd Hosp isn't army because it does the BFT and IBTS, it is the only National level, Role 3 HSS unit in the CF.  It is truly a purple unit and proud of it.  At least you are right about our Medics working along side those from the Fd Amb.   

The young medics come from the school quite disillusioned about what life after QL3 and JI is all about.   Keeping them past their first BE is becoming quite the challenge regardless of where they go when the leave Borden.   The only thing keeping their immediate interest is On-car opportunities with civilian ambulance service.   After that perhaps an operational tour, if they are lucky.


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## medicineman (6 May 2005)

The disillusionment is nothing really new - most of us felt it going to our first units and finding out that you're not saving lives and such.  In field units, you fix sick trucks and if your training cell is on the ball, are doing some ongoing medical training or common field courses or if you're really lucky, get to work in a UMS.  If you go to a garrison unit, you find out that after all the time spent in Borden, you don't really know alot and are able/allowed to do even less.  When PCRI started in Kingston, I was surprised, that any of the junior techs that arrived in time for the trial hadn't released, as according to the trial managers, they were'nt qualified to do anything.  But, I'm willing to bet disillusionment for newbies is there in most trades for the same reasons.

MM


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## Armymedic (6 May 2005)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> I disagree Gents.    The UMS will soon be a thing of the past in garrison.    Each UMS, Fd Amb, Health Svc Centre etc is different.



UMS in name might be, but is there any other way to supply first line med support to the units while in the field?



			
				Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Fd Hosp HCA and nurses backfilling at Fd Ambs - really?    The Fd Hosp isn't army because it does the BFT and IBTS, it is the only National level, Role 3 HSS unit in the CF.   It is truly a purple unit and proud of it.   At least you are right about our Medics working along side those from the Fd Amb.



Fd Hosp is not army, but they do deploy to the Field, and support the army, no?  And did you not sent nurses with the DART?

I know this course is a pipedream, it would be impossible to sell as a requirement cause of this same thought throughout the medical services that says individual skill at any element is not required to support the services that make up the CF.

As for Reg Force Med Tech retention, perhaps we could make another thread...


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## 043 (6 May 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> As an alternate thread from the SQ question.
> 
> As it stands right now, there is no dedicated fd training for medical personnel. The US army has the expert Fd medical badge which allows their medic to aspire to achieve a high level of skill. The US marines have their corpsman complete a fd oriented medical indoctrination prior to be deployed to their MOUs.
> 
> ...



Good thinking, but really, where would you get the Army instructors to instruct? You and I know that your trade lacks big time!


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## Zombie (6 May 2005)

2023 said:
			
		

> You and I know that your trade lacks big time!



Trade lacks what?


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## Gunner98 (6 May 2005)

Yes, Fd Hosp did send a nurse with the DART, that was not a backfill that is standing unit task for DART.  Yes we do deploy on Field exercises with the Army.  Not nearly as frequently as we would like.

I do somewhat agree that your course idea could be a good addition.  Quality instructors are at a premium particularly in Borden.  Whether CFHSA and Borden is a good venue to teach Fd ops is another thread in itself.  

I think a retention thread and perhaps a CFHSA one as well would be a good idea.  Since I am not a Med Tech, I suggest that someone else start the Med Tech retention thread.  If no one else steps fwd I will begin one or two over the weekend.


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