# Military assistance requested as flooding hits downtown Fort McMurray



## 211RadOp (27 Apr 2020)

> *Military assistance requested as flooding hits downtown Fort McMurray*
> 
> Series of new evacuation orders issued early Monday morning
> Wallis Snowdon · CBC News · Posted: Apr 27, 2020 6:49 AM MT | Last Updated: 17 minutes ago
> ...



More at link

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fort-mcmurray-flooding-1.5546029


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## Quirky (27 Apr 2020)

To do what exactly? Looks like sandbagging is a little too late now. I'd imagine they'd help with evacuations.


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## MJP (27 Apr 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> To do what exactly? Looks like sandbagging is a little too late now. I'd imagine they'd help with evacuations.



Granted it is a news article, but I bet dollars to donuts that this isn't even a real RFA ATT, just a mayor kinda jumping the gun asking for the CAF.  There is nothing in that news article that indicates the province has requested assistance from the Federal govt.


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## Weinie (27 Apr 2020)

You just won some dollars.


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## Jarnhamar (27 Apr 2020)

A news story saying you're calling on the army for help probably makes you look good to locals.


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## MilEME09 (27 Apr 2020)

Mayor even floated the idea of army engineers using explosives to clear ice jams


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## dapaterson (27 Apr 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Mayor even floated the idea of army engineers using explosives to clear ice jams



Cold Lake is closer.  Drop some 500lb bombs on the river.


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## Journeyman (27 Apr 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Cold Lake is closer.  Drop some 500lb bombs on the river.


Really?  Just like that, you want to use up the RCAF's ordinance inventory -- _both_  of their 500lb bombs?

Have you not heard that in the post-COVID (and trying to buy a UN seat) economy, defence spending is likely an easy hit?  Savage.


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## dapaterson (27 Apr 2020)

I figured that with all the YFR we saved by not sending them to Afghanistan...


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## FJAG (28 Apr 2020)

I've been at a few floods but am far from an expert. It looks too late to sandbag. Explosives on the other hand ...

 :worms:


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## Quirky (28 Apr 2020)

Yes lets build the town at the lowest point, next to the river. I don't see any hilly, dry parts anywhere. 







More pictures on McMurray Aviation on FB.  :not-again:


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Yes lets build the town at the lowest point, next to the river. I don't see any hilly, dry parts anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a problem everywhere in Alberta like, you know, the aptly named 'High River' that was pretty much wiped out in 2013.

On a floodplain, building scenic homes by the river is like riding a Tiger: it looks great until the Tiger gets hungry.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Apr 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Yes lets build the town at the lowest point, next to the river. I don't see any hilly, dry parts anywhere.


Someone should go back to 1870 and point that out.


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## MilEME09 (28 Apr 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Someone should go back to 1870 and point that out.



Most towns are built near rivers, why? water


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## FJAG (28 Apr 2020)

Our last house on Lake Erie was a lovely sea-side place which even had a small beach on the other side of the sea wall. For the five years that we lived there it was great but after we decided to move and sold the place, the next five years saw steady rises in water levels and greater wave action.

The trouble was our house and another and hundred fifty others, are built on a dyke almost a hundred years ago that was built to turn a boggy area into some really excellent farmland. The farmland on the land side of the road is now quite a bit below lake level.

When I was there it looked like this:










Nowadays a moderately windy day looks like this:






and there is often overwash and danger of the dyke eroding on the land side from water coming over the top.

Chatham-Kent just completed a shoreline study of all their Erie Shore properties and the outlook is not good.

https://portal.chatham-kent.ca/downloads/es/CKLakeErieSS_HR.pdf

There was a time early on in the last century when waterfront properties were not popular (what you did was take a train or tram to the shore and then came back at night). That has changed dramatically since transport and access became easier and people had more leisure time for enjoying the seaside full-time. Same thing with flood plains. They're flat and easy to build on. We're reaping the downside of all that now.

 :worms:


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## Quirky (28 Apr 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Someone should go back to 1870 and point that out.



or 2016.... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/rebuilding-fort-mcmurray-homes-on-flood-plain-a-poor-decision-says-hydrologist-1.3793374

It ends with the home owners who buy homes and property in flood prone areas. That river view will look even better when the waterline is above your kitchen window.


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## dapaterson (28 Apr 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> It ends with the home owners who buy homes and property in flood prone areas. That river view will look even better when the waterline is above your kitchen window.



You're saying we could market it as a retirement community for submariners?


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## Jarnhamar (28 Apr 2020)

Quirky said:
			
		

> or 2016.... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/rebuilding-fort-mcmurray-homes-on-flood-plain-a-poor-decision-says-hydrologist-1.3793374
> 
> It ends with the home owners who buy homes and property in flood prone areas. That river view will look even better when the waterline is above your kitchen window.



Well that would be rebuilding. Seems a bad idea to rebuild in the same spot.


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## MilEME09 (28 Apr 2020)

The mayor must read these forums, in a press briefing today he specifically mentioned F-18's for dealing with the ice but that it was not feasible along with other options due to just how massive the ice jam is.


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## lenaitch (28 Apr 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Most towns are built near rivers, why? water



Which made sense when you had to fetch it in a bucket or be close enough to the water table for a shallow well handpump, or when the river was the primary method of transportation.  Most of modern day Fort McMurray dates back to the 1970s.

There are many hard lessons over the years about building on a floodplain.  The odd time we actually learn from them.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2020)

lenaitch said:
			
		

> Which made sense when you had to fetch it in a bucket or be close enough to the water table for a shallow well handpump, or when the river was the primary method of transportation.  Most of modern day Fort McMurray dates back to the 1970s.
> 
> There are many hard lessons over the years about building on a floodplain.  The odd time we actually learn from them.



And then there's Calgary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cXLT4X2UY

Granted, moving the whole city would be a bit tricky, but one of these days it's likely to get smashed even worse than in 2013.


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## dapaterson (28 Apr 2020)

lenaitch said:
			
		

> There are many hard lessons over the years about building on a floodplain.  The odd time we actually learn from them.



The lesson we appear to have learned is that the government will always bail you out, even when insurers say "no way", so there's no problem in rebuilding, because governments have unlimited Other People's Money.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The lesson we appear to have learned is that the government will always bail you out, even when insurers say "no way", so there's no problem in rebuilding, because governments have unlimited Other People's Money.



Like those riverfront golf courses with the $1m greens that need to be replaced?


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