# Volunteer Reserve work



## Danno1 (12 Dec 2012)

This may seem like an absurd question, but it is heard of to do volunteer parade nights and weekend BMQ at a reserve base? 

There is a back story, I'll get into it if anyone's interested, but as a broad question: Can someone theoretically do Reserve work unpaid, to start at least?


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Dec 2012)

I have seen people work in the PRes before and not sign paysheets, sure.  But I think you mean, not even be in the CF Primary Reserve but still do the training??

I will say no to that one.  You can't just show up and train 'because you want to' wearing your paintball or duckhunting kit.


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## Remius (12 Dec 2012)

I'd be curious about the back story.  Since as mentioned, a lot of reservists put in more time than they are paid for at times or vice versa.  Situation is everything.  If you mean coming in to sign something or pick up a claim, yeah, that happens.  If you mean coming out on ex for training without getting paid, no, that should not and is not supposed to happen.  Or is it someone on class B who still parades with his unit?

Back story would help.


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## dapaterson (12 Dec 2012)

The CBIs leave no wiggle room: members _*shall*_ be paid for periods of duty or service.  While the old ADM(Per) 2/93 instruction included direction on "Voluntary Service", that was rescinded when ADM(Per) 2/93 was replaced by CMP Instruction 20/04.



> 2.14 Voluntary Service
> Under QR&O article 203.065, a member of the Res F who is serving on other than a period of Cl "C" Reserve Service is entitled to be paid for each day of service. Therefore, voluntary service without pay is not permitted.



If a unit is saying you can do BMQ as a "volunteer" they are wrong, and disobeying the QR&O.


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## Danno1 (12 Dec 2012)

Thanks for the replies.

Back story is that I may have to turn down an excellent Reg offer, but am eager to work with the CF. The Reserve component of the Reg trade (Comms Rsch) is not available in my city, and the other trade I want (Int Op) may be filled indefinitely. 

I've done all the steps in the recruitment process and am a good candidate. I would rather volunteer as Int than get paid as any other NCM as of now. 

So, would it be acceptable to the CF if someone joined as a Reserve, fully committed and sworn in, but did so on a volunteer basis until a paid spot was available?


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## Danno1 (12 Dec 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The CBIs leave no wiggle room: members _*shall*_ be paid for periods of duty or service.  While the old ADM(Per) 2/93 instruction included direction on "Voluntary Service", that was rescinded when ADM(Per) 2/93 was replaced by CMP Instruction 20/04.
> 
> If a unit is saying you can do BMQ as a "volunteer" they are wrong, and disobeying the QR&O.



I haven't brought it up to the unit, I thought it would be better to gather some info here first. 

Is the Reserve unit responsible for the budgeting of all staff activities? As in, does costs for BMQ, SQ, and parade nights all come out of the Reserve Unit budget, or is some of the cost centralized?


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## dapaterson (12 Dec 2012)

General rule: BMQ/SQ/ career courses are centralized; parading is out of the unit budget.

I stress again that units have no legal authority to permit individuals to parade "volunteer".


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## Haggis (12 Dec 2012)

Danno1 said:
			
		

> This may seem like an absurd question, but it is heard of to do volunteer parade nights and weekend BMQ at a reserve base?



The short answer is "no".  CF Military Personnel Instruction 20-04 para 2.14 reads:

"2.14 Voluntary Service
Under QR&O article 203.065, a member of the Res F who is serving on other than a period of Cl "C" Reserve Service is entitled to be paid for each day of service. *Therefore, voluntary service without pay is not permitted*."



			
				Danno1 said:
			
		

> There is a back story, I'll get into it if anyone's interested, but as a broad question: Can someone theoretically do Reserve work unpaid, to start at least?



When questions like this are asked, the back story is usually quite fascinating.  I, for one, am interested.


[/quote]


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## Danno1 (12 Dec 2012)

OK, thanks for the clarification.

That's unfortunate. I would benefit, and so would the unit. But 3rd parties get to make the decision. This is why we should all vote Libertarian


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## DAA (12 Dec 2012)

Danno1 said:
			
		

> OK, thanks for the clarification.
> 
> That's unfortunate. I would benefit, and so would the unit. But 3rd parties get to make the decision. This is why we should all vote Libertarian



The only time you will see "volunteer" parading is where a member is employed on Class B outside their unit and even this must be approved by the employing authority.  So, technically, it is not possible to belong to a Res F unit as a Class A member and volunteer with the same unit while on strength, except as noted above.


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## chrisf (12 Dec 2012)

Actually, there's also volunteer bandsmen, they're unpaid, but authorized to wear the uniform and parade with the band... maybe the OP is good with a trumpet?

In all seriousness though, and I don't mean to throw out any crazy ideas here... but if you want to be a reservist... why not.... join the reserves???


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Dec 2012)

Stop that!  There is no room for common sense here!

 ;D

In all seriousness, I think the Pres units and / or trades the OP has looked at are full IIRC.


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## Danno1 (12 Dec 2012)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Actually, there's also volunteer bandsmen, they're unpaid, but authorized to wear the uniform and parade with the band... maybe the OP is good with a trumpet?
> 
> *In all seriousness though, and I don't mean to throw out any crazy ideas here... but if you want to be a reservist... why not.... join the reserves???*





			
				Danno1 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> Back story is that I may have to turn down an excellent Reg offer, but am eager to work with the CF. *The Reserve component of the Reg trade (Comms Rsch) is not available in my city, and the other trade I want (Int Op) may be filled indefinitely*.
> 
> ...



 ;D


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## Danno1 (12 Dec 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Stop that!  There is no room for common sense here!
> 
> ;D
> 
> *In all seriousness, I think the Pres units and / or trades the OP has looked at are full IIRC.*



 :nod:

I'm sure there are ethical aspects that differentiate internship with the military and internship at XYZ Advertising, but I generally find the free market to work better than govt regulations. 

I have no military experience mind you, but from an economic point of view, I don't see why someone of sound mind can't volunteer to do, well, anything. I gain useful training in something I am passionate about, and a productive hobby, and the military gets a trained and eager recruit. The expectations are different of course, I'm not going to 'Stan pro bono, but parade nights? 

Thanks for the clarification, maybe time to consider other Res trades...


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## jeffb (12 Dec 2012)

Look at it this way, if you are volunteering during a parade night and while unloading a truck you fall off the back and shatter your leg, what is the liability for the CF? You are volunteering so you aren't entitled to benefits but you are on DND property so you could sue the government right? 

Here's another angle. If the people were allowed to volunteer then there is the potential for supervisors to "voluntold" members into work. This kind of regulation is there to protect both the members and the institution. 

This has nothing to do with whatever political system you seem to think it does.


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