# Sailor who doubled in size wins disability benefits



## jollyjacktar

Interesting case.  Sounds like a real life "Supersize Me" story.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1325370-sailor-who-doubled-in-size-on-navy-diet-wins-disability-benefits


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## OldSolduer

And cue the fat disabled claims in 3. 2.  1


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## McG

I hope he atleast accepts some responsibility for this himself.

Anybody else think of this character?


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## The Bread Guy

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> And cue the fat disabled claims in 3. 2.  1


I was sorta thinking that, too ....


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## Pat in Halifax

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Interesting case.  Sounds like a real life "Supersize Me" story.
> 
> http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1325370-sailor-who-doubled-in-size-on-navy-diet-wins-disability-benefits



NUTS!

That's all I can think to say at this moment....


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## jollyjacktar

I am in no position to chuck hamburgers and fries at anyone.  I only wish I was half the man I used to be.  I cannot honestly say my diet pre-RCN was stellar as this guy has apparently proven for an award.


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## Pat in Halifax

Nor I, but blame it all on the Navy?


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## Colin Parkinson

Give him a new job onboard as a "stabilizer". He is to run forward, aft, port or starboard on the orders of the OOW while at sea to counter the effects of roll.


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## The Bread Guy

Dumb-ass never-been-to-sea question here:  how easily can a 300 lb man do any job on a ship?  OK, maybe he's 7 foot 3 and carries it differently than shorter guys, but I get the impression space is kinda limited on a ship, no?


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## Stoker

Cue the blue menu's again.


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## Journeyman

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Nor I, but blame it all on the Navy?


Sure, it's society's answer to taking responsibility for ones' behaviour.  Much like, "why work? If I don't win the lottery, I can always sue someone."     :not-again:

It's a great precedent though. I never drank this much before I joined, but I was obligated to belong to a Mess.....and those places kept serving beer.       

Where's my cheque?    :subbies:


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## dimsum

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Cue the blue menu's again.



Blue menu?


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## Stoker

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Blue menu?




Healthy choice menu's came in a few years ago. Desert once a week, bacon a couple times a week, use of deep fryer cut back, more sandwiches, more salads etc.


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## Eye In The Sky

There aren't enough facepalms in the world for this.  WTF, over.


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## SupersonicMax

Can I put in a claim because I got uglier and older since I joined?


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Getting uglier: Yeah! For sure that's a result of all those High-G turns Supersonicmax, isn't it?

Older, well you got me there.

As for ships: OK, the lifestyle is not the greatest. But running out of fresh and switching to high fat deep fried?  I cannot recall a situation where we were out of either fresh or frozen (but still healthy) fruits or vegetable, or  time where we didn't have soups and salads of some sort available. How much and what you stuffed in your own face as always been a personal choice for seamen. And yes, on sea postings, I always gained pounds, which I tried (and usually managed) to lose next time I had a longer home port stay.

And did anyone notice the alleged "healthy traditional" diet of this gentlemen (or lady, I don't know) pre-navy? I mean porcupine, grouse and raccoon; and lilies, cattails and dandelions for vegetables? This person certainly sounds like a native Canadian to begin with. And in my experience, a majority of them turn into blimps when they become sedentary and adopt the "white man" diets. 

Just my  :2c:


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## Eye In The Sky

I find this whole thing:

1.  embarrassing for the RCN

2.  embarrassing for DVA

3.  will start a rash of TCATs and Medical ARs across the CAF  8)

Can't wait to see the new Comd RCN PT Directive!!!


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## expwor

I must be missing something.  If this "affliction" or "disability" or whatever is due to shipboard life as a sailor why aren't more if not all sailors suffering from the same "affliction"?
What happened to individuals taking personal responsibility for themselves 
And yes, while I'm still 6'1 I'm not 180 pounds like I was in my teens, early twenties, but what I've gained is my own fault
Shaking my head

Tom


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## Jarnhamar

I think it's hillarious.  We have members suffering in chronic pain every day from physical injuries they've suffered on the job and it's an up hill battle with VA. We hear stories of their claims getting lost repeatedly, denied, sent back. Usual bullshit.

This guy becomes obese, blames everyone else but himself and gets disability benefits. Good on him, I would expect nothing less from VA.


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## Navy_Pete

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Dumb-*** never-been-to-sea question here:  how easily can a 300 lb man do any job on a ship?  OK, maybe he's 7 foot 3 and carries it differently than shorter guys, but I get the impression space is kinda limited on a ship, no?



Depends on the job, but generally speaking there is a lot of time standing around watching to make sure nothing happens.  You can work a lot of hours and be really good at your job but spend most of it in a chair.

As long as you can pass the PT test, do the fire fighting, flood, and other critical emergency things, you meet the minimum and are okay.  There are some pretty big guys that are carrying a lot of extra weight that are really great at their normal job, but get tired really fast doing some of the emergency things.

Because of the shift work too there are smaller meals served for the night watch as well, so if you want you can get five meals a day, plus there is always stuff floating around.

Having said that, PT is becoming a much bigger deal ,and generally there is some pretty healthy items on the menu.  The days of the deep fryer are numbered as well; they are going to pull them out and replace them with ovens, which is safer for all kinds of good reasons.  You can eat well if you want, and you can also eat nothing but brown food if you like as well.  Personal responsibility has to factor in somewhere.

Finding the ship I'm on we run the full spectrum; there are a lot of really fit people that exercise constantly and watch what they eat, a lot of in between that eat well most of the time and exercise semi regularily, and then the group that never exercises, walks the fun runs, and eats seconds of every deep fried bit of garbage and duff they can get their hands on.  Unfortunately the uniforms are tailored for the last group, so if your shoulders are wider then your hips by much, there is a lot of extra material.

This is really kind of frustrating though, as there are a lot of folks with chronic injuries as a direct result of a lot of sailing with all the pitching around (injured backs, done in knees, etc) and they have a hard time getting anything from VA.


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## mariomike

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Dumb-ass never-been-to-sea question here:  how easily can a 300 lb man do any job on a ship?



I was wondering how easily he could be lifted and carried out of it?


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## The Bread Guy

Thanks for painting more of the bigger picture, Navy_Pete - much appreciated!


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## maniac

SupersonicMax, yes you should lol.

They should have abolished that board years ago.


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## MJP

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Thanks for painting more of the bigger picture, Navy_Pete - much appreciated!



I see what you did there.....


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## Stoker

I was reading some additional details about this story and apparently he's now lost 70 lbs. He also blamed the over consumption of alcohol. He also was awarded the princely sum of $3,440 or a one fifth award.


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## CountDC

sooo - how do they explain the fact that there are body builders in the Navy that are able to maintain while with the ships?


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## Stoker

CountDC said:
			
		

> sooo - how do they explain the fact that there are body builders in the Navy that are able to maintain while with the ships?



That's true but they are usually the ones hogging the limited gym gear on board. Some people don't realize that some ships or boats either have no gym gear or very little. Working out at sea at times can be tricky, especially on a treadmill and detrimental to the equipment and bad on the hips and knees.


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## mariomike

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Some people don't realize that some ships or boats either have no gym gear or very little.



That was an interesting discussion,

Gyms on Ships  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/38761.50


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## jollyjacktar

I am working in the procurement end of things for the navy.  They will be replacing the deep fat fryers with different, healthier ways of preparing meals on ship.  

I have seen in my time a shift in attitudes towards fitness on ship.  There are more now who try to do something than ever before.  This is a , cultural sea change (no pun intended) which won't take hold overnight, and won't take hold with everyone either for that matter.  But as time goes on, I believe the navy will adopt a more healthy lifestyle and it will be for the betterment of the troops in the long run.   Besides, the bastards took away the beer.  Might as well do something else with the time...


I still won't touch Tofu with a 20 foot pole or with a gun to my head either for that matter.  Blue menu be damned.


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## PuckChaser

So this guy embarassed himself and the Navy for $3500 bucks? Wow. :facepalm:


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## Eaglelord17

Personally I have always joked that becoming fat was a self defence mechanism on the ships. It allows you to float better, keeps you from being forced into the bilge, and allows you to keep warm when the boilers aren't working. As far as I see it, there really is no downside, as having been the skinny guy, you get forced to go into all the nooks and crannies well the fat guys sit there and watch.


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## Stoker

mariomike said:
			
		

> That was an interesting discussion,
> 
> Gyms on Ships
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/38761.50



Yes CPF's do and so does the 280. I'm pretty sure subs don't and MCDV's have 1 bike, elliptical and 1 treadmill for 40 people. If your lucky its not too rough to actually use the gear and when everyone is using the gear sometimes you may have to go 2 in the morning to get your run in. Its far from ideal and we have to be flexible. Being on a ship does not promote a healthy lifestyle, its slowly changing but we're not there yet.


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## Stoker

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> So this guy embarassed himself and the Navy for $3500 bucks? Wow. :facepalm:



Probably thought he would get a bigger payout. From what the news was saying he injured himself on ship a number of times, probably claiming that as well I would imagine.


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## PuckChaser

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Yes CPF's do and so does the 280. I'm pretty sure subs don't and MCDV's have 1 bike, elliptical and 1 treadmill for 40 people. If your lucky its not too rough to actually use the gear and when everyone is using the gear sometimes you may have to go 2 in the morning to get your run in. Its far from ideal and we have to be flexible. Being on a ship does not promote a healthy lifestyle, its slowly changing but we're not there yet.



Definitely seems like a tough go. But unless this person was on ship 24/7/365 for 20 years, at some point on shore duty you have to say to yourself "Man, I'm gaining weight on ship. I better muckle down and go hard on fitness before I sail again to sort this out."


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## Stoker

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Definitely seems like a tough go. But unless this person was on ship 24/7/365 for 20 years, at some point on shore duty you have to say to yourself "Man, I'm gaining weight on ship. I better muckle down and go hard on fitness before I sail again to sort this out."



For sure, its certainly tough deploying on some classes of ships and try to stay fit. Alongside there should be no excuse, lots of programs to get you fit at the PSP.


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## Eye In The Sky

IMO, this _also_ speaks volumes to the level of fitness and health our 'minimum standard' really is if someone can stay in, pass the PT test and the periodic health assessments.  Something is wrong if you are double your bodyweight and can still pass 'the minimums'; the minimums are way to frickin' low!!!  

Do the minimums cut it in combat or sustained ops?  Not charmin' likely.


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## Grimey

The double hanger on 280s certainly helped with the exercise equipment issue, there was always room as long as we only carried one helo.  On ALG during Op APOLLO we had no helairdet, even had to get the SWOAD cert for the flight deck via a RN Sea King after we chopped in.

The result was we had a kick ass double size gym that would, even 13 years later, put most fitness centres to shame.  Didn't particulaly rub off on the crew though.....the same faces using the gym at the beginning of the deployment where the same ones using it 6 months later.

I think the bigger issue is that the RCN, overall, has only ever paid lip service to physical fitness.  Remember when BMI was pushed in the early 90s?  There was talk of mandatory PT at the time but that seemed to die a quick death, along with the PERIs.

Has the FORCE test been more effective in promoting fitness than the express test?  I released just before it came into use.


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## medicineman

In my humbleish opinion, the when he had a PHE done and was found to need Vaseline applied to get through a hatch, he should have been landed as a safety risk to himself and the remainder of the crew that might have to extricate him from the bowels of the ship.  At that point, he'd have more than ample time to demonstrate that there is some insight into "their problem" and show themselves to be working to remedy the situation.  I'm so tired of people that can't accept responsibility for their own illnesses/issues and then watching them essentially getting rewarded for it.  I remember in the early 90's when the challenges that we weren't allowed to tell service personnel that they were too fat and sort themselves out or release were accepted as Charter violations.  This makes me shake my head.

MM


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## Pusser

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I am working in the procurement end of things for the navy.  They will be replacing the deep fat fryers with different, healthier ways of preparing meals on ship.



I certainly hope this doesn't mean no deep fat fryers at all!  Deep fat fryers are not the antichrist.  Should they be used for every meal?  No.  Should everything that can possibly be deep fried be deep fried.  No.  Should there be other choices as well?  Of course!  But deep frying is a legitimate cooking method and when used appropriately and in moderation will have no ill effect on overall health.  You can provide the healthiest choices in the world, but you cannot actually force people to eat and choose wisely.  Education works far better than deprivation and bans.

Remember when they banned ALL tobacco sales on board?  That worked well, didn't it?


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## jollyjacktar

Yes, it does mean it.  The new gear that is coming down the pipes will still enable the cooks to serve fries etc as part of their meals, just a healthier method of getting there.  Think of a commercial kitchen capable Actifry type of system.  (At least as I understand that's a fair comparison.  It's not our project, but it does impact the fitted K-guard system fitted for protecting the deep fat fryers, they're going away with the fryers)


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## Lumber

Did he retire a Chief?







 ;D


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## Jarnhamar

You can have the best ship borne gym in the world but if you treat your stomache like a garbage can you'll become obese.


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## OldSolduer

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> You can have the best ship borne gym in the world but if you treat your stomache like a garbage can you'll become obese.



Agreed. I've gone on a fairly strict diet, actually a lot less of what used to eat scaled back. Less bread etc, and less of Niner Domestic's baking. The result? About 30 pounds less, weighing in at under 200 pounds. I have not been that light since I was 19.

If I can do that, anyone can.


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## mariomike

Anyone ever see "The D. I." with Jack Webb?

"You ain't gonna eat no bread, no corn, no pie, cake, desserts of any kind. No whole milk, no beans, no butter, no sugar, no potatoes, candy, ice cream, salad dressing or peanut butter... You came here with nothing but fat. You're gonna leave here with nothing but muscle."


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## jollyjacktar

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadas-military-forced-to-accept-fatter-less-educated-recruits-as-demographics-change-audit-reveals


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## ModlrMike

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadas-military-forced-to-accept-fatter-less-educated-recruits-as-demographics-change-audit-reveals


Not really news to anyone who's been paying attention. I wager the CF is not the only "service" facing these same challenges.


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## Lumber

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Not really news to anyone who's been paying attention. I wager the CF is not the only "service" facing these same challenges.



Well, when our "best and brightest" are saying shit like this:



> *UWSA 'disturbed' by Armed Forces' presence on campus *
> 
> http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/11/28/uwsa-disturbed-by-armed-forces-presence-on-campus



Then you're not going to be recruiting the "best and brightest".


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## Stoker

Lumber said:
			
		

> Did he retire a Chief?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ;D



Actually the member was a met tech and not a member of the RCN.


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## Pusser

Lumber said:
			
		

> Then you're not going to be recruiting the "best and brightest".



Who says our best and brightest are in universities?  This article is more indicative of the presence of some pretty dim bulbs...


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## FSTO

Pusser said:
			
		

> Who says our best and brightest are in universities?  This article is more indicative of the presence of some pretty dim bulbs...



Student unions are the holding corrals for the milk toast morons who are continually offended at everything.


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## TCM621

Grimey said:
			
		

> The double hanger on 280s certainly helped with the exercise equipment issue, there was always room as long as we only carried one helo.  On ALG during Op APOLLO we had no helairdet, even had to get the SWOAD cert for the flight deck via a RN Sea King after we chopped in.
> 
> The result was we had a kick *** double size gym that would, even 13 years later, put most fitness centres to shame.  Didn't particulaly rub off on the crew though.....the same faces using the gym at the beginning of the deployment where the same ones using it 6 months later.
> 
> I think the bigger issue is that the RCN, overall, has only ever paid lip service to physical fitness.  Remember when BMI was pushed in the early 90s?  There was talk of mandatory PT at the time but that seemed to die a quick death, along with the PERIs.
> 
> Has the FORCE test been more effective in promoting fitness than the express test?  I released just before it came into use.


I remember when General Hillier put out the CANFORGEN mandating 3 hours a week PT time during work hours. Even with an order from the CDS,  we had to fight tooth and nail to get it. Even after it was approved there was always some reason why we were "too busy for PT today".  

The Navy needs to change its culture to consider PT as work rather than time away from work. The farther you get away from the combat arms the more likely you are to see units who view PT as rec time or time off rather than part of their job. It is easy to fall into that trap. On an Army base, work starts at 0600 (or whenever) for PT the daily routine starts after. Very rarely does anything major happen before 9  because the entire base is at PT.  All other units I have been at PT (if there is any) tends to get shoe horned into the existing schedules, next thing you know people can't go because they have easy work related excuses. 

I hate 6 in the morning PT, I would rather work out in the afternoon, but when everyone you know is at PT at the same time every day it is pretty easy to get into the routine. Even if people have issues that prevent them from participating in group PT,  we have an entire staff of free personal trainers who can help come up with a PT program for damn near anyone.


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## putz

Just playing devils advocate here.  The claim wasn't for his weight it was for the Hypertension.  That being said I've put on weight since joining the CF and have had my BP go up, but I wouldn't think for a minute to blame it on the CAF or put a VA claim in.


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## mariomike

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I wager the CF is not the only "service" facing these same challenges.



I believe you would win that wager.


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## ModlrMike

putz said:
			
		

> Just playing devils advocate here.  The claim wasn't for his weight it was for the Hypertension.  That being said I've put on weight since joining the CF and have had my BP go up, but I wouldn't think for a minute to blame it on the CAF or put a VA claim in.



Hypertension can and does occur separately from obesity; I see plenty of slender folks with HTN. That being said, they are most often comorbidities, frequently in the setting of type 2 diabetes.


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## Steve_D

What really grinds my gears is that this guy get's his claim approved; meanwhile there is a young kid who was attacked in SF during their "Fleet Week" while serving on ALG and suffered damage that is going to cause a 3B and VAC continues to deny his claim stating that it was not attributable to military service. REALLY!! He would not have been at a USN event if he had not sailed there on ALG as part of "military service". Complete and utter BS!!


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## The Bread Guy

Meanwhile, the RCN's Info-Machine shows how it _can_ be done (and I understand different ships on different tasks can have different schedules/tempos) ....


> While the crew of HMCS Calgary flexed their skills after deploying October 5, 2015 to southern California for a busy series of taskings, they also honed their bodies in a fitness challenge.
> 
> For six weeks, while taking part in Fleet Week in San Francisco, work-ups in support of HMCS Vancouver, and a major Task Group Exercise with a United States Navy Amphibious Strike Group, the ship’s company was encouraged to become more active and take steps towards a healthier lifestyle while earning points towards an achievable goal.
> 
> The program was organized under the guidance of the ship’s fitness coordinator, Sergeant Steven Lewington. Over 140 HMCS Calgary sailors participated in the challenge, which culminated with the awarding of prizes to three personnel who reached the goal of 50 points during the trip.
> 
> Encouraging the ship’s company to work out was only one part of the challenge. By forgoing desserts participants could net 0.4 points per day and smokers could earn half a point per day by skipping a day of smoking/vaping. The program also awarded points to sailors for making healthier lifestyle choices while the ship was in port, such as not consuming alcohol. This encouraged members to explore new ways to enjoy themselves in port that were compatible with their healthier lifestyle choices.
> 
> Many members brought bikes with them and while alongside in San Francisco spent their time biking across the Golden Gate Bridge. Others enjoyed a run along the Embarcadero, climbing the 600 steps to reach Coit Tower, or going for hikes in the Marin Headlands.
> 
> “The aim of this program has always been to encourage all participants, no matter their fitness level, to work towards a very attainable goal and experience the benefits of a healthy lifestyle,” said Sgt Lewington.
> 
> The Calgary Health and Fitness challenge has been a resounding success and the ship has implemented this as an ongoing program.


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## Lumber

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, the RCN's Info-Machine shows how it _can_ be done (and I understand different ships on different tasks can have different schedules/tempos) ....



We've talked about the difficulty of maintaining a fitness regime aboard a warship before, so I'll just say this.

Calgary was assissting Vancouver's work-ups. It would have been much harder, nigh impossible, to do this aboard a ship that is the one actually conducting work-ups. It would be awesome if we could, but damn it's hard to put down the duff during work-ups when you go 2 weeks without any down time at all.


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## Eye In The Sky

I haven't done work ups or even seen them, but I heard a few guys I know talk about them and I hope it is something I continue to remain in the 'have not experienced' group.   ;D


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## dimsum

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I haven't done work ups or even seen them, but I heard a few guys I know talk about them and I hope it is something I continue to remain in the 'have not experienced' group.   ;D



Trust me, you don't want to ever experience that.


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## jollyjacktar

Wups suck the big one.  I hate them even if you're just doing an assist to the poor bastards getting reamed.  Sea Trainers are the imps of Satan.


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## Stoker

We had West Coast Sea Training on board last year and they mentioned fitness pauses during the program which surprised the hell out of me.


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## Strike

So, someone asked this question on another forum.

If buddy loses all the weight and suddenly has no issues with hypertension anymore and is no longer at risk of getting Type 2 diabetes (or, if he already has it, ends up being able to manage it without any medication...can't remember from the article if he has it or not) is he still considered disabled?   ???


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## Pusser

Lumber said:
			
		

> We've talked about the difficulty of maintaining a fitness regime aboard a warship before, so I'll just say this.
> 
> Calgary was assissting Vancouver's work-ups. It would have been much harder, nigh impossible, to do this aboard a ship that is the one actually conducting work-ups. It would be awesome if we could, but damn it's hard to put down the duff during work-ups when you go 2 weeks without any down time at all.



Fair enough, but ships are not constantly working up.

I agree that regular exercise is a good thing, but I fail to understand the crowd that seem to think that minor interruptions in a routine are catastrophic.  If you generally live a healthy lifestyle (exercise and eat right), the odd week or two of decadence will not instantly turn you into a 400 lb slug.


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## Pusser

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Wups suck the big one.  I hate them even if you're just doing an assist to the poor bastards getting reamed.  Sea Trainers are the imps of Satan.



Agreed, but as I explain to many (who will listen), trainers of any ilk (be they Sea Training, BMQ/BMOQ staff, etc) are not actually allowed to kill or even injure anybody.  Nor is it in their best interests for anyone to fail.  Therefore, by and large, WUPS will end and everyone will survive.


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## jollyjacktar

Pusser said:
			
		

> Agreed, but as I explain to many (who will listen), trainers of any ilk (be they Sea Training, BMQ/BMOQ staff, etc) are not actually allowed to kill or even injure anybody.  Nor is it in their best interests for anyone to fail.  Therefore, by and large, WUPS will end and everyone will survive.



Agreed,  they're there to do a necessary job and I wouldn't want theirs for anything.  It all has a purpose and reason as does everything asked of a ship's company. (jazzagrams excepted) Doesn't make it any less of a pain in the ass nevertheless. 

I wish we'd not stopped War Wednesdays.  Back then everyone was pretty sharp at their battle problems and Wups was not as painful.


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## blackberet17

Strike said:
			
		

> So, someone asked this question on another forum.
> 
> If buddy loses all the weight and suddenly has no issues with hypertension anymore and is no longer at risk of getting Type 2 diabetes (or, if he already has it, ends up being able to manage it without any medication...can't remember from the article if he has it or not) is he still considered disabled?   ???



In the eyes of VAC, yes. Although he may no longer be disabled since a change in diet, increased physical fitness, etc., a decision was rendered based on his condition at the time of the decision. The one-fifth award and $ won't be taken away from him.

Unless it was a fraudulent claim, made on false grounds, etc.


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## TCM621

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, the RCN's Info-Machine shows how it _can_ be done (and I understand different ships on different tasks can have different schedules/tempos) ....


We once did a push up challenge at sea.  It was amazing how many people got into it. There wasn't even any prizes,  just pride.


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## dimsum

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> We once did a push up challenge at sea.  It was amazing how many people got into it. There wasn't even any prizes,  just pride.



And probably just a bit of boredom as well


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## Strike

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> We once did a push up challenge at sea.  It was amazing how many people got into it. There wasn't even any prizes,  just pride.



And that's something that the RCN needs to push.  You don't need fancy equipment to get a workout done.  What do you see when you go to Wainwright with the Army?  (Let's pretend that the field amb hasn't also deployed with physio, who always seems to insist on bringing all their ellipticals, stairclimbers, etc. lol)  You see guys using what's around them to get a workout done.  Cardio?  Get a jump rope.  A punching/kicking bag (weighted base) is usually the most expensive piece of gym equipment you see.  Weights?  Ammo cans or just using their own weight in different ways.

Saying that it's hard to work out because you don't have the right equipment or the sea state prevents you from using it sounds like an excuse to me.  A chin up bar that can be mounted in a hatch and some TRX straps, which can be mounted almost anywhere, are more than enough and are easily store away on the side of a bunk or in a locker.


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## jollyjacktar

Strike said:
			
		

> And that's something that the RCN needs to push.  You don't need fancy equipment to get a workout done.  What do you see when you go to Wainwright with the Army?  (Let's pretend that the field amb hasn't also deployed with physio, who always seems to insist on bringing all their ellipticals, stairclimbers, etc. lol)  You see guys using what's around them to get a workout done.  Cardio?  Get a jump rope.  A punching/kicking bag (weighted base) is usually the most expensive piece of gym equipment you see.  Weights?  Ammo cans or just using their own weight in different ways.
> 
> Saying that it's hard to work out because you don't have the right equipment or the sea state prevents you from using it sounds like an excuse to me.  A chin up bar that can be mounted in a hatch and some TRX straps, which can be mounted almost anywhere, are more than enough and are easily store away on the side of a bunk or in a locker.



Sea state is a valid reason to curtail some activities on ship at a certain point (just ask your brother how rough it can get).  Also, it's not a good idea to be mounting anything on a hatch as they are points of egress into and out of different decks/compartments on ship.   They could also undog and slam down that would not be good.  Ships are not a stable platform unlike the field and you must take where you're locating and doing things into consideration.  Your points about being "creative" are very valid and there are things that can be done in that regard for sure.


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## Lumber

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Sea state is a valid reason to curtail some activities on ship at a certain point (just ask your brother how rough it can get).  Also, it's not a good idea to be mounting anything on a hatch as they are points of egress into and out of different decks/compartments on ship.   They could also undog and slam down that would not be good.  Ships are not a stable platform unlike the field and you must take where you're locating and doing things into consideration.  Your points about being "creative" are very valid and there are things that can be done in that regard for sure.



Speaking of being creative, a friend of mine hung bouldering holds from the Ops Room deck head using rope. We'd have pull-up competitions during watch to help the time go by (most pull ups at one time and most during the whole watch). It was really furstrating when you're about to beat your record for most at one time, the the ship suddenly takes a dive down a wave, and suddenly you feel a tad bit heavier. 

Sea Training promptly removed them as soon as they came aboard... :'(


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## mariomike

Strike said:
			
		

> And that's something that the RCN needs to push.  You don't need fancy equipment to get a workout done.  What do you see when you go to Wainwright with the Army?  (Let's pretend that the field amb hasn't also deployed with physio, who always seems to insist on bringing all their ellipticals, stairclimbers, etc. lol)  You see guys using what's around them to get a workout done.  Cardio?  Get a jump rope.  A punching/kicking bag (weighted base) is usually the most expensive piece of gym equipment you see.  Weights?  Ammo cans or just using their own weight in different ways.
> 
> Saying that it's hard to work out because you don't have the right equipment or the sea state prevents you from using it sounds like an excuse to me.  A chin up bar that can be mounted in a hatch and some TRX straps, which can be mounted almost anywhere, are more than enough and are easily store away on the side of a bunk or in a locker.



From the Gyms on Ships discussion, I read this,

"Just moving around a ship in certain sea states is workout enough...."


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## Lumber

mariomike said:
			
		

> From the Gyms on Ships discussion, I read this,
> 
> "Just moving around a ship in certain sea states is workout enough...."



It's true. Try climbing up a ladder when the ship is pitching down. It's like wearing a leaded vest.


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## SeaKingTacco

Lumber said:
			
		

> It's true. Try climbing up a ladder when the ship is pitching down. It's like wearing a leaded vest.



On the other hand, if you time it right, you can fly up a ladder with barely a step.


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## Oldgateboatdriver

You want a good work out at sea?

Go clear a halyard in sea state five or above  :nod:

Seriously though, while there is a combination of ship movement and dangers onboard ship that restrict us in getting a work out, we all have to admit that at times when such work outs were possible we have all been guilty of laziness and preferring to get some more shut eye instead of exercising (though I would never blame anyone from sleeping off, on a calm day, when we just went through a multiple days storm where all we could do is wedge ourselves in a corner of a compartment and stay awake in our bunks, resisting the rolls trying to throw us out of there.)


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## Journeyman

All this discussion of fitness while sailing is moot; I gather the point was this chunky monkey was unable to workout because he was physically tied to a chair and force-fed deep fried food for 20 years. Not easy doing cardio when bound to a chair, and the only carbs burned are the reps from chewing Kentucky fried Mars bars...   :nod:


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## dimsum

Strike said:
			
		

> And that's something that the RCN needs to push.  You don't need fancy equipment to get a workout done.



Before the Crossfit craze, the RCAF already had this:  



> The 5BX Plan is composed of six charts arranged in increasing order of difficulty. Each chart is composed of five exercises that are performed within 11 minutes. The first four exercises are calisthenics, and the last an aerobic exercise. As the individual progresses within the system, the number of each type of exercise that must be performed increases and the difficulty of each exercise increases.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5BX


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## mariomike

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Before the Crossfit craze, the RCAF already had this:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5BX



I like the Forward from the Chief of Defence Staff on page 1,
http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rfburger/5bx-plan.pdf


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## jollyjacktar

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Before the Crossfit craze, the RCAF already had this:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5BX



It was far, far ahead of it's time in that respect.  I had a reprint of that book at one time.


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## medicineman

They came out with a 10 BX as well - my Dad was addicted to doing it back in the 70's and 80's.

MM


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## mariomike

medicineman said:
			
		

> They came out with a 10 BX as well - my Dad was addicted to doing it back in the 70's and 80's.



It's still out there,

US Supreme Court Justice use RCAF Workout to Stay in Shape.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/116551.0
"I do the Canadian Air Force exercises almost every day."

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, an 81-year old cancer survivor.

10BX .pdf
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/mundane-matters-of-importance/10BX-exercise-for-women.pdf


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## daftandbarmy

Journeyman said:
			
		

> All this discussion of fitness while sailing is moot; I gather the point was this chunky monkey was unable to workout because he was physically tied to a chair and force-fed deep fried food for 20 years. Not easy doing cardio when bound to a chair, and the only carbs burned are the reps from chewing Kentucky fried Mars bars...   :nod:



Easy. Just schedule 2 hours of firefighting practice each day for all hands.


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## AirDet

I sailed for 15 years off and on. I put on weight just like mostly everyone else. The food on the boats was fatty and there was an ability to eat 5 meals a day (B'fast, soup, lunch, supper, midnight meal). The question in my mind is how much do we take personal responsibility for and how much was outside our control. The sailor was able to prove his genetics made him particularly susceptible to the old deep fried diet on the boats. 
We all know how difficult it is to meet the VAC requirements. I'm therefore willing to cut this guy a break.


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## PuckChaser

He proved he had a different diet before, which was a polar opposite to what he got on ship. But he also claimed they constantly ran out of fresh fruit and vegetables, and most of us are questioning why he wasn't capable of eating well in dock, and working out to cut down the weight gain.

At least they only gave him 1/5th.


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## Stoker

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> He proved he had a different diet before, which was a polar opposite to what he got on ship. But he also claimed they constantly ran out of fresh fruit and vegetables, and most of us are questioning why he wasn't capable of eating well in dock, and working out to cut down the weight gain.
> 
> At least they only gave him 1/5th.



Back in the day (early 90's) ships never had workout gear and we routinely ran out of fresh fruit and veg sometimes doing 35 days or more at sea which back then was a lot for the steamers. While alongside we did have the option to workout but back then it was absent from the navy culture. These days there's no excuse.


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## TCM621

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> You want a good work out at sea?
> 
> Go clear a halyard in sea state five or above  :nod:
> 
> Seriously though, while there is a combination of ship movement and dangers onboard ship that restrict us in getting a work out, we all have to admit that at times when such work outs were possible we have all been guilty of laziness and preferring to get some more shut eye instead of exercising (though I would never blame anyone from sleeping off, on a calm day, when we just went through a multiple days storm where all we could do is wedge ourselves in a corner of a compartment and stay awake in our bunks, resisting the rolls trying to throw us out of there.)


Nope, nope and nope. Last time I did that I unzipped my pants for an extra point of contact on the ladder. And it wasn't even SS 5.


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## Pat in Halifax

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Back in the day (early 90's) ships never had workout gear and we routinely ran out of fresh fruit and veg sometimes doing 35 days or more at sea which back then was a lot for the steamers. While alongside we did have the option to workout but back then it was absent from the navy culture. These days there's no excuse.


Actually I recall doing sit ups etc on work out mats on board NIPIGON after they removed the mortar-Mortar Well Gym and that would have been 85-86. Then posted to GATINEAU and we had stationary bikes and mats throughout the ship. Nowadays though, I think it is an individual responsibility and if you chose not to utilize the equipment available (or even walk 'laps' around the FD for f***s sake) then I think YOU are the problem, not the Navy.


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## jollyjacktar

Ah, but, they gave him something.  They are not shy at ******* you off quickly if they're not satisfied and you don't prove your case.  I agree, he probably could have taken (more) action to mitigate the effects of the navy diet as he experienced it as could have I ( and sadly why as I said I'm not necessarily half the man I used to be.  I wasn't at one time called the "Duff Buzzard" for nothing).

Going on with Chief Stoker, the chap at the centre did I'd wager spend time in the earlier days where it wasn't all muscle beach and tofu of today.  I expect his 1/5th award wasn't given without due consideration for all the evidence put before them.


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## Pat in Halifax

Or he is a masterful and articulate writer on the claim!


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## Stoker

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Actually I recall doing sit ups etc on work out mats on board NIPIGON after they removed the mortar-Mortar Well Gym and that would have been 85-86. Then posted to GATINEAU and we had stationary bikes and mats throughout the ship. Nowadays though, I think it is an individual responsibility and if you chose not to utilize the equipment available (or even walk 'laps' around the FD for f***s sake) then I think YOU are the problem, not the Navy.



Terra Nova is the early 90's had zero workout gear and the culture didn't exactly promote fitness. You were often pissed on watch as well. I personally never saw anyone doing push ups on watch either. Yes its a individuals responsibility then and now but back in the day fitness and a healthy lifestyle was not encouraged.


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## bwatch

That will pay for a few trips to the Country Buffet


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