# QL‘s



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:53:20 EST*
Evening, All.
    I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer 
training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female ratio 
for infantry?
    Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely think 
so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time? 
    I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re all doing 
Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do 9, I 
believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as much to 
keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the females not 
do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
    It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my ‘anxious 
little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
        So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to chew on, 
I‘d be much obliged.
                -Matt
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## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:32:52 -0700*
Yes, but why?
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: QL‘s
>     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
‘anxious
> little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
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## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:49:44 -0500*
Give the kid a break, Ian...he‘s struck by PC, he‘s gung ho, and the CF is
in shut down mode for his type.
He belongs to the organization, at a time where theorganization is, if not
in turmoil, then at least "changing".  Bet on him for one of the last four
Survivors....
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: QL‘s
> Yes, but why?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
> Subject: QL‘s
>
>
> >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> ‘anxious
> > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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## army

Posted by *"Jay Digital" <todesengel@home.com>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 00:25:00 -0500*
When I was there, there were about 10 females in our 250 man company.
I can‘t really comment on the gender issue thing since it‘s really a
personal thing and varies from person to person. I was in an all-male
platoon so I never really had the opportunity to interact with the female
recruits.
There is nothing wrong with the car except that it is on fire.
   -Murray Walker
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
Subject: QL‘s
> Evening, All.
>     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female ratio
> for infantry?
>     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
think
> so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
>     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re all
doing
> Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do 9, I
> believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as much
to
> keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the females
not
> do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
>     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
‘anxious
> little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
>         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to chew
on,
> I‘d be much obliged.
>                 -Matt
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:56:44 -0700*
A break? I did. I kept my response to three words, a new record for me I
think.
I wasn‘t aware that ‘Survivors‘ winning qualities were winning criteria for
QL2.
We‘ve beaten the male/female thread to death so many times a more lengthy
reponse wasn‘t necessary.
I don‘t know if he is a "kid" except that he must be younger than me as by
definition I‘ve reached CRA and he is being accepted for entry. He should
get on with it and not worry about perceived female favoritism. I mean,
what‘s he going to do? Not join if someone tells him there is some bias?
Join and become a barrack-room lawyer?
It‘s not like the requirements he is going to be put through are like the
legends of the Fr. Foreign Legion, circa 1920.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: QL‘s
> Give the kid a break, Ian...he‘s struck by PC, he‘s gung ho, and the CF is
> in shut down mode for his type.
>
> He belongs to the organization, at a time where theorganization is, if not
> in turmoil, then at least "changing".  Bet on him for one of the last four
> Survivors....
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:32 PM
> Subject: Re: QL‘s
>
>
> > Yes, but why?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
> > Subject: QL‘s
> >
> >
> > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > ‘anxious
> > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 06:24:39 *
I think that he asked a valid question, and thats what this list is for 
right?
Weren‘t you excited when you did your basic? Didn‘t you have a lot going 
through your mind before your course?
Maybe people should start encouraging potential recruits instead of shutting 
them down.
Peter de Vries
>From: "Ian Edwards" 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: 
>Subject: Re: QL‘s
>Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:56:44 -0700
>
>A break? I did. I kept my response to three words, a new record for me I
>think.
>I wasn‘t aware that ‘Survivors‘ winning qualities were winning criteria for
>QL2.
>We‘ve beaten the male/female thread to death so many times a more lengthy
>reponse wasn‘t necessary.
>I don‘t know if he is a "kid" except that he must be younger than me as by
>definition I‘ve reached CRA and he is being accepted for entry. He should
>get on with it and not worry about perceived female favoritism. I mean,
>what‘s he going to do? Not join if someone tells him there is some bias?
>Join and become a barrack-room lawyer?
>
>It‘s not like the requirements he is going to be put through are like the
>legends of the Fr. Foreign Legion, circa 1920.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Gow 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:49 PM
>Subject: Re: QL‘s
>
>
> > Give the kid a break, Ian...he‘s struck by PC, he‘s gung ho, and the CF 
>is
> > in shut down mode for his type.
> >
> > He belongs to the organization, at a time where theorganization is, if 
>not
> > in turmoil, then at least "changing".  Bet on him for one of the last 
>four
> > Survivors....
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: QL‘s
> >
> >
> > > Yes, but why?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
> > > Subject: QL‘s
> > >
> > >
> > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > > ‘anxious
> > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 01:31:44 -0500*
Oh do beat up on me while I watch the show...
And LOL we are almost all of us younger than you just giving us different
matrices for our individual problems...
So certainly his hesitation over perceived female/minority group
"favouritism" may be real although it wasn‘t there when you or I joined, I
expect...???... its not just policy, its published...
And he‘s asking honest questions, which, by my lights, is fair ball...even
smart, on his part.
And he is hedging the bet, promising to get a college diploma or university
degree before committing to the PF, which he wants to do...while the CF is
hedging on offering long term employment  and he is testing the water by
going into the PRes, as a ranker at that..so he can see how the other half
lives...
What can you have against somebody like that?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: QL‘s
> A break? I did. I kept my response to three words, a new record for me I
> think.
> I wasn‘t aware that ‘Survivors‘ winning qualities were winning criteria
for
> QL2.
> We‘ve beaten the male/female thread to death so many times a more lengthy
> reponse wasn‘t necessary.
> I don‘t know if he is a "kid" except that he must be younger than me as by
> definition I‘ve reached CRA and he is being accepted for entry. He should
> get on with it and not worry about perceived female favoritism. I mean,
> what‘s he going to do? Not join if someone tells him there is some bias?
> Join and become a barrack-room lawyer?
>
> It‘s not like the requirements he is going to be put through are like the
> legends of the Fr. Foreign Legion, circa 1920.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Gow 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: QL‘s
>
>
> > Give the kid a break, Ian...he‘s struck by PC, he‘s gung ho, and the CF
is
> > in shut down mode for his type.
> >
> > He belongs to the organization, at a time where theorganization is, if
not
> > in turmoil, then at least "changing".  Bet on him for one of the last
four
> > Survivors....
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: QL‘s
> >
> >
> > > Yes, but why?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
> > > Subject: QL‘s
> > >
> > >
> > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > > ‘anxious
> > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:57:50 -0400*
right on, Peter.  You young people are our future.  Work hard, play hard and
give it your best shot.  Your enthusiasm is a joy and a reminder to us older
people that we, too, were once like you. :
Beth
Peter deVries wrote:
> I think that he asked a valid question, and thats what this list is for
> right?
> Weren‘t you excited when you did your basic? Didn‘t you have a lot going
> through your mind before your course?
> Maybe people should start encouraging potential recruits instead of shutting
> them down.
> Peter de Vries
>
> >From: "Ian Edwards" 
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: 
> >Subject: Re: QL‘s
> >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:56:44 -0700
> >
> >A break? I did. I kept my response to three words, a new record for me I
> >think.
> >I wasn‘t aware that ‘Survivors‘ winning qualities were winning criteria for
> >QL2.
> >We‘ve beaten the male/female thread to death so many times a more lengthy
> >reponse wasn‘t necessary.
> >I don‘t know if he is a "kid" except that he must be younger than me as by
> >definition I‘ve reached CRA and he is being accepted for entry. He should
> >get on with it and not worry about perceived female favoritism. I mean,
> >what‘s he going to do? Not join if someone tells him there is some bias?
> >Join and become a barrack-room lawyer?
> >
> >It‘s not like the requirements he is going to be put through are like the
> >legends of the Fr. Foreign Legion, circa 1920.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: John Gow 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:49 PM
> >Subject: Re: QL‘s
> >
> >
> > > Give the kid a break, Ian...he‘s struck by PC, he‘s gung ho, and the CF
> >is
> > > in shut down mode for his type.
> > >
> > > He belongs to the organization, at a time where theorganization is, if
> >not
> > > in turmoil, then at least "changing".  Bet on him for one of the last
> >four
> > > Survivors....
> > >
> > > John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: QL‘s
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes, but why?
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
> > > > Subject: QL‘s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > > > ‘anxious
> > > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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>
> _________________________________________________________________________
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>
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## army

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:18:58 -0700*
I think that you‘ll find that there is a lot less yeling than the movies
would lead you to think.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: QL‘s
> Evening, All.
>     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female ratio
> for infantry?
>     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
think
> so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
>     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re all
doing
> Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do 9, I
> believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as much
to
> keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the females
not
> do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
>     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
‘anxious
> little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
>         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to chew
on,
> I‘d be much obliged.
>                 -Matt
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:04:04 -0500*
Matt,
You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training platoon is
female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is no
segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses, the
students male and female were asked if they desired segregated quarters
and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to live and
work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some courses
may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres Test
standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open contest to
see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of fitness
levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting troops
such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their being
there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize this are
failing their soldiers.
As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical performance, I am
continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable MALES for
such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen exhibited
by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither should we
expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this list more
often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to serve.
Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone fit who
is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier male or
female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or staff
fitness standard.
Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses fail in
this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure and the
more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that creating
extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even encouraged. And
this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through QL3 may
well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few years
later.
Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may not
always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
Mike
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
Subject: QL‘s
> Evening, All.
>     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female ratio
> for infantry?
>     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
think
> so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
>     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re all
doing
> Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do 9, I
> believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as much
to
> keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the females
not
> do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
>     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
‘anxious
> little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
>         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to chew
on,
> I‘d be much obliged.
>                 -Matt
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:15:05 EST*
Thanks very much for all the info, everyone.
    Its very much appreciated. 
    As John said, I am just trying to get a feel for things right now, and I 
thought it‘d benefit me to know as much of what I‘m getting myself into as 
possible. Would there be a better place to pose such questions? I don‘t think 
so.
    Ian, I never meant to question the legitimacy or validity or women in 
basic, and/or infantry training, nor the policies the CF has set forth to 
govern that practice . My intention was simply to understand section/platoon 
level training during course and how the two sexes would interact with one 
another. I know now, that there won‘t be a whole lot of difference in the 
training. I‘ve reached my goal: getting information. 
    Any organisation whose members care so much about its reputation so as to 
type emails regarding the organisation‘s interests/policies to concerned and 
interested ‘new guys‘, is a great one. Or, so it would seem to one with no 
time in.
    All the comments of the ‘listers‘ are never ignored. I haven‘t been 
asking questions just to make you answer. Your responses are noted, 
evaluated, and acted upon.
    Many thanks, once again.
                    -Matt
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## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:39:34 -0400*
Mike!
Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
I think you were right on with your comments....
Bob
Mike Oleary wrote:
> Matt,
>
> You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training platoon is
> female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is no
> segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses, the
> students male and female were asked if they desired segregated quarters
> and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to live and
> work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some courses
> may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
>
> Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres Test
> standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open contest to
> see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of fitness
> levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting troops
> such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their being
> there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize this are
> failing their soldiers.
>
> As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical performance, I am
> continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable MALES for
> such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen exhibited
> by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither should we
> expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this list more
> often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to serve.
> Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone fit who
> is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier male or
> female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or staff
> fitness standard.
>
> Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses fail in
> this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure and the
> more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that creating
> extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even encouraged. And
> this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
>
> Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through QL3 may
> well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few years
> later.
>
> Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may not
> always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
>
> Mike
>
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> Subject: QL‘s
>
> > Evening, All.
> >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female ratio
> > for infantry?
> >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
> think
> > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re all
> doing
> > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do 9, I
> > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as much
> to
> > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the females
> not
> > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> ‘anxious
> > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to chew
> on,
> > I‘d be much obliged.
> >                 -Matt
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:12:01 -0800*
I think that after a days training you will be too tired to think, never
mind wonder about the performance of your course mates.  If anyone does have
time to ponder the gender issues, then they are not trying thier best, and
should get back on track...As long as the trainee‘s near don‘t snore or fart
too much, it shouldn‘t matter where thier lumps are located..
My 2 cents....or .75 cents US
Chimo
Good luck
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:23:03 -0500*
I was a Master-Corporal with the Princess Louise Fusiliers before I
component transferred for officer training. It was valuable preparation at
the time and remains worthy experience.
And now I‘m the Adjutant.
BTW - Don‘t know Wiseman.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth MacFarlane 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: QL‘s
> Mike!
> Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
> I think you were right on with your comments....
> Bob
>
> Mike Oleary wrote:
>
> > Matt,
> >
> > You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training platoon is
> > female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is no
> > segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses, the
> > students male and female were asked if they desired segregated
quarters
> > and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to live
and
> > work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some
courses
> > may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
> >
> > Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres
Test
> > standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open
contest to
> > see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of
fitness
> > levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting troops
> > such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their being
> > there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize this
are
> > failing their soldiers.
> >
> > As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical performance, I
am
> > continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable MALES
for
> > such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen
exhibited
> > by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither should we
> > expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this list
more
> > often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to serve.
> > Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone fit
who
> > is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier
male or
> > female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or staff
> > fitness standard.
> >
> > Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses fail
in
> > this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure and
the
> > more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that
creating
> > extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even encouraged.
And
> > this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
> >
> > Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through QL3
may
> > well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few years
> > later.
> >
> > Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> > especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may not
> > always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> > Subject: QL‘s
> >
> > > Evening, All.
> > >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> > > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female
ratio
> > > for infantry?
> > >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
> > think
> > > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> > >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re
all
> > doing
> > > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do
9, I
> > > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as
much
> > to
> > > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the
females
> > not
> > > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > ‘anxious
> > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to
chew
> > on,
> > > I‘d be much obliged.
> > >                 -Matt
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian  McGregor" <imcgrego@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:09:15 -0500*
Is the WO Wiseman you speak of RCR, with bad knees he would have had
surgery on them two or three summers ago and posted in Gagetown?
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: QL‘s
> Mike!
> Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
> I think you were right on with your comments....
> Bob
>
> Mike Oleary wrote:
>
> > Matt,
> >
> > You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training platoon is
> > female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is no
> > segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses, the
> > students male and female were asked if they desired segregated
quarters
> > and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to live
and
> > work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some
courses
> > may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
> >
> > Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres
Test
> > standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open
contest to
> > see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of
fitness
> > levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting troops
> > such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their being
> > there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize this
are
> > failing their soldiers.
> >
> > As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical performance, I
am
> > continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable MALES
for
> > such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen
exhibited
> > by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither should we
> > expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this list
more
> > often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to serve.
> > Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone fit
who
> > is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier
male or
> > female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or staff
> > fitness standard.
> >
> > Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses fail
in
> > this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure and
the
> > more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that
creating
> > extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even encouraged.
And
> > this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
> >
> > Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through QL3
may
> > well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few years
> > later.
> >
> > Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> > especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may not
> > always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> > Subject: QL‘s
> >
> > > Evening, All.
> > >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> > > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female
ratio
> > > for infantry?
> > >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
> > think
> > > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> > >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re
all
> > doing
> > > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do
9, I
> > > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as
much
> > to
> > > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the
females
> > not
> > > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > ‘anxious
> > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to
chew
> > on,
> > > I‘d be much obliged.
> > >                 -Matt
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:23:47 -0400*
Hi Ian!
That‘s him!  He had more surgery last year on one of his knees.  He retired last
fall but is now working on base as a civilian.  Quite a character!
Bob  Beth
Ian  McGregor wrote:
> Is the WO Wiseman you speak of RCR, with bad knees he would have had
> surgery on them two or three summers ago and posted in Gagetown?
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: QL‘s
>
> > Mike!
> > Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
> > I think you were right on with your comments....
> > Bob
> >
> > Mike Oleary wrote:
> >
> > > Matt,
> > >
> > > You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training platoon is
> > > female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is no
> > > segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses, the
> > > students male and female were asked if they desired segregated
> quarters
> > > and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to live
> and
> > > work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some
> courses
> > > may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
> > >
> > > Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres
> Test
> > > standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open
> contest to
> > > see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of
> fitness
> > > levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting troops
> > > such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their being
> > > there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize this
> are
> > > failing their soldiers.
> > >
> > > As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical performance, I
> am
> > > continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable MALES
> for
> > > such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen
> exhibited
> > > by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither should we
> > > expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this list
> more
> > > often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to serve.
> > > Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone fit
> who
> > > is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier
> male or
> > > female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or staff
> > > fitness standard.
> > >
> > > Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses fail
> in
> > > this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure and
> the
> > > more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that
> creating
> > > extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even encouraged.
> And
> > > this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
> > >
> > > Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through QL3
> may
> > > well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few years
> > > later.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> > > especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may not
> > > always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> > > Subject: QL‘s
> > >
> > > > Evening, All.
> > > >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> > > > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female
> ratio
> > > > for infantry?
> > > >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
> > > think
> > > > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> > > >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re
> all
> > > doing
> > > > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do
> 9, I
> > > > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as
> much
> > > to
> > > > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the
> females
> > > not
> > > > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > > ‘anxious
> > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > > >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to
> chew
> > > on,
> > > > I‘d be much obliged.
> > > >                 -Matt
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:24:54 -0400*
Ian
Are you also a member/former member of the RCR?
Bob
Ian  McGregor wrote:
> Is the WO Wiseman you speak of RCR, with bad knees he would have had
> surgery on them two or three summers ago and posted in Gagetown?
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: QL‘s
>
> > Mike!
> > Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
> > I think you were right on with your comments....
> > Bob
> >
> > Mike Oleary wrote:
> >
> > > Matt,
> > >
> > > You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training platoon is
> > > female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is no
> > > segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses, the
> > > students male and female were asked if they desired segregated
> quarters
> > > and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to live
> and
> > > work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some
> courses
> > > may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
> > >
> > > Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres
> Test
> > > standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open
> contest to
> > > see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of
> fitness
> > > levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting troops
> > > such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their being
> > > there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize this
> are
> > > failing their soldiers.
> > >
> > > As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical performance, I
> am
> > > continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable MALES
> for
> > > such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen
> exhibited
> > > by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither should we
> > > expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this list
> more
> > > often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to serve.
> > > Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone fit
> who
> > > is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier
> male or
> > > female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or staff
> > > fitness standard.
> > >
> > > Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses fail
> in
> > > this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure and
> the
> > > more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that
> creating
> > > extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even encouraged.
> And
> > > this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
> > >
> > > Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through QL3
> may
> > > well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few years
> > > later.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> > > especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may not
> > > always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> > > Subject: QL‘s
> > >
> > > > Evening, All.
> > > >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for summer
> > > > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to female
> ratio
> > > > for infantry?
> > > >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would definitely
> > > think
> > > > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> > > >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say we‘re
> all
> > > doing
> > > > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to do
> 9, I
> > > > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females as
> much
> > > to
> > > > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the
> females
> > > not
> > > > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in my
> > > ‘anxious
> > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > > >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘ to
> chew
> > > on,
> > > > I‘d be much obliged.
> > > >                 -Matt
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian  McGregor" <imcgrego@hotmail.com>* on *Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:04:54 -0500*
Bob
I am an Engineer.  WO Wiseman was my course WO when I did RESO I.  His name
came up a few times last summer when, as a Barracks Warden, he would not let
a few of my friends put satellite dishes on F-18 a building, not the plane
for their televisions.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: QL‘s
> Ian
> Are you also a member/former member of the RCR?
> Bob
>
> Ian  McGregor wrote:
>
> > Is the WO Wiseman you speak of RCR, with bad knees he would have had
> > surgery on them two or three summers ago and posted in Gagetown?
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: QL‘s
> >
> > > Mike!
> > > Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
> > > I think you were right on with your comments....
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > Mike Oleary wrote:
> > >
> > > > Matt,
> > > >
> > > > You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training
platoon is
> > > > female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is
no
> > > > segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses,
the
> > > > students male and female were asked if they desired segregated
> > quarters
> > > > and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to
live
> > and
> > > > work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some
> > courses
> > > > may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres
> > Test
> > > > standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open
> > contest to
> > > > see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of
> > fitness
> > > > levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting
troops
> > > > such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their
being
> > > > there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize
this
> > are
> > > > failing their soldiers.
> > > >
> > > > As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical
performance, I
> > am
> > > > continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable
MALES
> > for
> > > > such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen
> > exhibited
> > > > by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither
should we
> > > > expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this
list
> > more
> > > > often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to
serve.
> > > > Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone
fit
> > who
> > > > is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier
> > male or
> > > > female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or
staff
> > > > fitness standard.
> > > >
> > > > Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses
fail
> > in
> > > > this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure
and
> > the
> > > > more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that
> > creating
> > > > extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even
encouraged.
> > And
> > > > this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
> > > >
> > > > Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through
QL3
> > may
> > > > well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few
years
> > > > later.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> > > > especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may
not
> > > > always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> > > > Subject: QL‘s
> > > >
> > > > > Evening, All.
> > > > >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for
summer
> > > > > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to
female
> > ratio
> > > > > for infantry?
> > > > >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would
definitely
> > > > think
> > > > > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> > > > >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say
we‘re
> > all
> > > > doing
> > > > > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to
do
> > 9, I
> > > > > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females
as
> > much
> > > > to
> > > > > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the
> > females
> > > > not
> > > > > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> > > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in
my
> > > > ‘anxious
> > > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > > > >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘
to
> > chew
> > > > on,
> > > > > I‘d be much obliged.
> > > > >                 -Matt
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
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## army

Posted by *"Rob Ayres" <ayrzee_07@hotmail.com>* on *Sat, 31 Mar 2001 15:59:58 -0500*
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the copy of the infantry journal, it came yesterday.
Are you ready to start the training plan? It‘s almost the first. BTW 
don‘t forget to set your clock ahead!
RobA
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Juno847627709@aol.com
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 3:15 PM
  Subject: Re: QL‘s
  Thanks very much for all the info, everyone.
      Its very much appreciated.
      As John said, I am just trying to get a feel for things right now, 
and I
  thought it‘d benefit me to know as much of what I‘m getting myself 
into as
  possible. Would there be a better place to pose such questions? I 
don‘t think
  so.
      Ian, I never meant to question the legitimacy or validity or women 
in
  basic, and/or infantry training, nor the policies the CF has set forth 
to
  govern that practice . My intention was simply to understand 
section/platoon
  level training during course and how the two sexes would interact with 
one
  another. I know now, that there won‘t be a whole lot of difference in 
the
  training. I‘ve reached my goal: getting information.
      Any organisation whose members care so much about its reputation 
so as to
  type emails regarding the organisation‘s interests/policies to 
concerned and
  interested ‘new guys‘, is a great one. Or, so it would seem to one 
with no
  time in.
      All the comments of the ‘listers‘ are never ignored. I haven‘t 
been
  asking questions just to make you answer. Your responses are noted,
  evaluated, and acted upon.
      Many thanks, once again.
                      -Matt
  --------------------------------------------------------
  NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  message body.
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the copy of the infantry journal, it 
came
yesterday.
Are you ready to start the training plan? It‘s 
almost the
first. BTW don‘t forget to set your clock ahead!
RobA
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Juno847627709@aol.com 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 
3:15
PM
  Subject: Re: QL‘s
  Thanks very much for all the info,
  everyone. Its very much
  appreciated. As John said, I am just trying to 
get a
  feel for things right now, and Ithought it‘d benefit me to know as 
much of
  what I‘m getting myself into aspossible. Would there be a better 
place to
  pose such questions? I don‘t thinkso. Ian, I 
never
  meant to question the legitimacy or validity or women inbasic, 
and/or
  infantry training, nor the policies the CF has set forth togovern 
that
  practice . My intention was simply to understand 
section/platoonlevel
  training during course and how the two sexes would interact with
  oneanother. I know now, that there won‘t be a whole lot of 
difference in
  thetraining. I‘ve reached my goal: getting
  information. Any organisation whose members care 
so much
  about its reputation so as totype emails regarding the 
organisation‘s
  interests/policies to concerned andinterested ‘new guys‘, is a 
great one.
  Or, so it would seem to one with notime in. 
All the
  comments of the ‘listers‘ are never ignored. I haven‘t beenasking
  questions just to make you answer. Your responses are 
noted,evaluated, and
  acted upon. Many thanks, once

again.nb
sp

-Matt--------------------------------------------------------NOTE
:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
themessage
  body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:32:56 -0400*
Hi Ian!
Miserable old P***k isn‘t he?  Hahahahaha. You can‘t be watching all that TV
when you should be paying attention to your studies!!   :
Bob
PS: Ian - I think all WO‘s, MWO‘s and CWO‘s take special courses in how to be
P****s, especially to young officers!!!  I know!!!!
Beth
Ian  McGregor wrote:
> Bob
> I am an Engineer.  WO Wiseman was my course WO when I did RESO I.  His name
> came up a few times last summer when, as a Barracks Warden, he would not let
> a few of my friends put satellite dishes on F-18 a building, not the plane
> for their televisions.
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 6:24 AM
> Subject: Re: QL‘s
>
> > Ian
> > Are you also a member/former member of the RCR?
> > Bob
> >
> > Ian  McGregor wrote:
> >
> > > Is the WO Wiseman you speak of RCR, with bad knees he would have had
> > > surgery on them two or three summers ago and posted in Gagetown?
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Beth MacFarlane" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: QL‘s
> > >
> > > > Mike!
> > > > Were you commissioned from the ranks?  BTW, do you know WO Wiseman?
> > > > I think you were right on with your comments....
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > Mike Oleary wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Matt,
> > > > >
> > > > > You may find as much as a quarter to a third of your training
> platoon is
> > > > > female soldiers. In the training camps I am familiar with there is
> no
> > > > > segregation of barrack space. Even with regular force QL3 courses,
> the
> > > > > students male and female were asked if they desired segregated
> > > quarters
> > > > > and the answer was always an emphatic "NO". These soldiers want to
> live
> > > and
> > > > > work within their peer group, as they should. That being said, some
> > > courses
> > > > > may segregate, though not necessarily for good reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, the whole course does PT together. Do not confuse the CF Expres
> > > Test
> > > > > standards with PT. Also, PT is not, nor should it ever be an open
> > > contest to
> > > > > see who fails first. Daily PT is for maintenance and improvement of
> > > fitness
> > > > > levels regardless of starting fitness levels without exhausting
> troops
> > > > > such that they are then too tired for the real purpose of their
> being
> > > > > there - the course training. Staff who continue to fail to realize
> this
> > > are
> > > > > failing their soldiers.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for degrees of "yelling" based on degrees of physical
> performance, I
> > > am
> > > > > continually surprised that no-one tries to segregate lass capable
> MALES
> > > for
> > > > > such perceived deficiencies with such determination as I have seen
> > > exhibited
> > > > > by some. Not every male soldier in an Olympic athlete, neither
> should we
> > > > > expect every female soldier to be one. We have discussed on this
> list
> > > more
> > > > > often that needed that the essential requirement is the desire to
> serve.
> > > > > Time, training, perseverance and dedication will always get someone
> fit
> > > who
> > > > > is committed to it - there is no reason to get rid of every soldier
> > > male or
> > > > > female that fails to measure up to an often arbitrary course or
> staff
> > > > > fitness standard.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gender issues are only as big as people let them be. Some courses
> fail
> > > in
> > > > > this regard because the staff establish the conditions for failure
> and
> > > the
> > > > > more aggressive and malleable candidates go along after seeing that
> > > creating
> > > > > extra stress on particular candidates is allowed, or even
> encouraged.
> > > And
> > > > > this is not new to the presence of females in combat arms training!
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember, that "weaker" male or female soldier you support through
> QL3
> > > may
> > > > > well be the one that helps you through leadership training a few
> years
> > > > > later.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck with your training. Keep an open mind, and remember that
> > > > > especially in such strong opinion based areas, your instructors may
> not
> > > > > always be presented a balanced and reasoned opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: 
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:53 PM
> > > > > Subject: QL‘s
> > > > >
> > > > > > Evening, All.
> > > > > >     I was just wondering about the whole male/female thing for
> summer
> > > > > > training courses. Can anyone give a rough estimate on male to
> female
> > > ratio
> > > > > > for infantry?
> > > > > >     Also, do the women sleep in different barracks?I would
> definitely
> > > > > think
> > > > > > so, but who knows. Do we all do PT at the same time?
> > > > > >     I‘m just wondering how the whole PT thing would work. Say
> we‘re
> > > all
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > Push-Ups or something, and since the women only HAVE to be able to
> do
> > > 9, I
> > > > > > believe, and the men 19, would the instructors yell at the females
> as
> > > much
> > > > > to
> > > > > > keep up? I‘m thinking about how the males would feel to see the
> > > females
> > > > > not
> > > > > > do as much of somethings and not get hassled for it.
> > > > > >     It probably won‘t be as big a deal as I make it out to be in
> my
> > > > > ‘anxious
> > > > > > little mind‘, but nonetheless, I think it‘d be good to know.
> > > > > >         So, if someone out there feels like throwing me somethin‘
> to
> > > chew
> > > > > on,
> > > > > > I‘d be much obliged.
> > > > > >                 -Matt
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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> > message body.
> >
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----------



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Sat, 31 Mar 2001 19:15:07 EST*
Glad you got it, Rob!
        Yes, I‘m ready.
                As stated, April is build-up month. I‘ll be doing the running 
this month, and four weeks from now I will be able to run 3 k‘s if all goes 
well. Been going to the gym, and I‘m completely positive my cardio-vascular 
system is fully up to it. That‘s no problem at all. Just have to keep 
practising as my lower legs and back still don‘t agree with my desire to work 
them.
    So following this month, and my completion of the 3 k‘s on a daily basis, 
1 May I shall start the RM Trg.
    Can‘t say I‘m looking forward to the really early mornings though! Think 
my guidance counsellor will understand if I want to start school an hour or 
so later?
    LOL
                Enjoy the journal,
                                    -Matt
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