# Edmonton Garisson Airfield/Runway



## MPSHIELD (17 Sep 2009)

I'm sorry if this is not in the correct area. I have also done a search but did not have any luck. I wanted to ask out there if anyone knows if the Runway at Edmonton Garrison  is going to be reopened. I have been told by 2 coworkers who heard it from their wives that work as civies on base.

I also know that the sources are through 2 and 3rd person but I was also on the range today and notice there are some civi contractors working on the runway running cable along the sides of the runway (for lights???).

Does anyone have any insight to this? Can someone clarify this?

I could see huge benefits in if this was the case. It is a shame they didn't keep it when the army took it over from the airforce.

Edit: Spelling Fix.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## Infanteer (17 Sep 2009)

Go talk to the Commissionaires down at Range Control - they'll give you all the details....


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## SeaKingTacco (19 Sep 2009)

Looking at Google Earth, it appears to my eye at least technically possible to re-open Rwy 03-21.  I don't see how the other one could be re-opened, as the big army buildings at the NW end of the old, long runway would make it unsafe for aircraft to conduct approaches and departures.


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## aesop081 (19 Sep 2009)

I doubt anyone is willing to invest the money required to return any runways at the Edmonton Garison to service. Not with Edmonton International available for use.


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## SupersonicMax (19 Sep 2009)

YEG is 1 hour away from the garrison.  It would have been wise to keep it in the first place IMHO.


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## Jammer (19 Sep 2009)

...possibly for UAVs? I don't expect you would need the whole length


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## aesop081 (19 Sep 2009)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> YEG is 1 hour away from the garrison.



Yes i know, i lived there for several years.



> It would have been wise to keep it in the first place IMHO.



Yeah it would have been but since it was not done.....


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## Rowshambow (19 Sep 2009)

you also have to take in the fact that the ranges are on the other end of the runway, and the main runway is the route to get there.


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## SupersonicMax (19 Sep 2009)

Rowshambow said:
			
		

> you also have to take in the fact that the ranges are on the other end of the runway, and the main runway is the route to get there.



I think it s a fairly easy fix.

Logistically, it would make so much more sense to have a decent runway in YEG.  C-17s/Airbus/Hercs could land directly there, load and go, vice having to drive all the equipment and personnel 1 hour south to a civilian airport.


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## dimsum (19 Sep 2009)

Reopening it for UAVs would be great, but as CDN Aviator said, the time/money would probably be too great.


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## TCBF (19 Sep 2009)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I think it s a fairly easy fix.
> 
> Logistically, it would make so much more sense to have a decent runway in YEG.  C-17s/Airbus/Hercs could land directly there, load and go, vice having to drive all the equipment and personnel 1 hour south to a civilian airport.



- If I was to write a book of fiction about a 14,000 foot, B-52 and Space Shuttle capable strategic runway that was  originally built by the Americans in Canada in WW2, I would be tempted to include the following plot devices.
1. Airstrip is being made redundant - another airstrip in another city (Winnipeg) is less capable and shared by a civ airport, but their Member of Parliament has a lot of pull, so it won't close.
2. Closing the runway might open it up for civilian use, which would compete with the existing city airport, located halfway to Vegas (or so it seems).
3. A plan is hatched where an army brigade is transfer ed from another major city (which voted Reform Party), and that brigade needs new buildings.
4. Those new buildings are built half on/half off the NW extremity of the runway, limiting runway use and causing cracking in the buildings.
5. Individual not-at-arms-length with the decision to build the buildings there, thus removing the threat to the existing civ airport, finds himself retired and running the existing civ airport.  An amazing coincidence, but you can do that when you write fiction.

 8)


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## Kat Stevens (19 Sep 2009)

TCBF, My ghast is completely flabbered that you could devise such a fiendishly twisted plot.  Even more so because you're not a mid 90s Liberal politician.


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## Rowshambow (19 Sep 2009)

Well Supersonic, I don't think its as easy as you think, don't get me wrong I agree that the benefits would have been awesome (if they thought of it orig) and did not put buildings on it. To move the buildings you would need to re locate the following (off the top of my head) All the ranges (which are ATS, and then the templating if the airfield was in play), Gas hut, rappel tower, Fibua house, Fire fighting practice area, seacan village, driving circuit, jump tower, 3 PPCLI buildings, LTF, LdSH(RC) and all its buildings, 1 CER buildings, 1PPCLI buildings, the wash racks, and the POL point. Then you would need to re surface, or rebuild (I am no eng) but am sure it would need something. Not impossible, but not really doable now either. As I said if this was thought out before it would have been awesome!


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## TCBF (19 Sep 2009)

Rowshambow said:
			
		

> ... Not impossible, but not really doable now either. As I said if this was thought out before it would have been awesome!



- Well, according to my fictional book of fiction, it WAS thought out, and, for political reasons, infrastructure was built so the end result would be "... not really doable now ...".  Other fictional books in the series might involve why 2PPCLI ended up in Shilo instead of a new barracks at the St. Charles Ranges, or why the LdSH(RC) moved from Calgary to Edmonton, instead of Calgary to Wainwright, etc.


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## SupersonicMax (19 Sep 2009)

Rowshambow said:
			
		

> Well Supersonic, I don't think its as easy as you think, don't get me wrong I agree that the benefits would have been awesome (if they thought of it orig) and did not put buildings on it. To move the buildings you would need to re locate the following (off the top of my head) All the ranges (which are ATS, and then the templating if the airfield was in play), Gas hut, rappel tower, Fibua house, Fire fighting practice area, seacan village, driving circuit, jump tower, 3 PPCLI buildings, LTF, LdSH(RC) and all its buildings, 1 CER buildings, 1PPCLI buildings, the wash racks, and the POL point. Then you would need to re surface, or rebuild (I am no eng) but am sure it would need something. Not impossible, but not really doable now either. As I said if this was thought out before it would have been awesome!



I was writing about the path to the range that would be an easy fix, not removing all the buildings and making the runway usable again.


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## Jammer (19 Sep 2009)

Let's get Shearwater sorted out first...


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## Dennis Ruhl (20 Sep 2009)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - If I was to write a book of fiction about a 14,000 foot, B-52 and Space Shuttle capable strategic runway that was  originally built by the Americans in Canada in WW2, I would be tempted to include the following plot devices.
> 1. Airstrip is being made redundant - another airstrip in another city (Winnipeg) is less capable and shared by a civ airport, but their Member of Parliament has a lot of pull, so it won't close.
> 2. Closing the runway might open it up for civilian use, which would compete with the existing city airport, located halfway to Vegas (or so it seems).
> 3. A plan is hatched where an army brigade is transfer ed from another major city (which voted Reform Party), and that brigade needs new buildings.
> ...



One of the best runways in the world was turned into a parade square through deliberate sabotage.

I have to also wonder whether 2PPCLI prefers Shilo to Winnipeg.  The old base in the south end of Winnipeg looked fine to me.  The old Edmonton Griesbach base was also quite functional and reasonably modern.  I guess real estate values got too tempting.

Why is it always about politics?


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## dangerboy (20 Sep 2009)

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> One of the best runways in the world was turned into a parade square through deliberate sabotage.
> 
> I have to also wonder whether 2PPCLI prefers Shilo to Winnipeg.  The old base in the south end of Winnipeg looked fine to me.  The old Edmonton Griesbach base was also quite functional and reasonably modern.  I guess real estate values got too tempting.
> 
> Why is it always about politics?



The South side base in Winnipeg may have looked fine from the outside but it needed a lot of work and upgrades done to it.


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## Dennis Ruhl (20 Sep 2009)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> The South side base in Winnipeg may have looked fine from the outside but it needed a lot of work and upgrades done to it.



As did/does Shilo apparently.  There seem to be a lot of different construction/renovation projects mentioned on the net.

I realize there is a cost to maintaining old bases but the whole point of a military is that it exists in peacetime for its potential in time of war.  Were there a general mobilization, it would be back to the tents and in Winnipeg you don't see the sun for the 6 months of 40 below when the wind blows from all four directions at the same time.  Can you tell I lived there a few years?


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## aesop081 (20 Sep 2009)

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> Were there a general mobilization,



Why not have kept all the horse barns at bases just in case horses make a comeback too......

 :


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## Dennis Ruhl (20 Sep 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Why not have kept all the horse barns at bases just in case horses make a comeback too......
> 
> :



Why not?  Was the 50 year period without a war a waste of 1 trillion current value dollars or to maintain potential to fight a war?  

I suspect that city bases lead to much higher retention and satisfaction.  What do 2PPCLI spouses do at CFB Shilo - milk the cows?


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## aesop081 (20 Sep 2009)

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> Why not?  Was the 50 year period without a war a waste of 1 trillion current value dollars or to maintain potential to fight a war?



Yeah i know...bring back the Alberta dragoons right ? is that where you are going ?

There is no need to maintain a huge useless infrastructure on the altar of general mobilization.......



> What do 2PPCLI spouses do at CFB Shilo - milk the cows?



It sucks but they are not the only ones........


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## Carbon-14 (20 Sep 2009)

The Base Commander was interviewed on another forum I frequent.  He was ask about reopening the runways.  His answer:



> The short answer to your question is yes – sort of. The Canadian Forces is looking at the possibility of using the runway here at CFB Edmonton for fixed-wing aircraft strictly on a limited basis to support training under austere conditions. This will not return the runway to full-time serviceability for fixed wing aircraft but will rather give us a capability to exercise in a manner similar to how we operate internationally.
> 
> 408 Tactical Helicopter Squadron, of course, continues to use a portion of the airfield for their rotary-wing aircraft operations with the Griffons.
> 
> ...



Full interview here:
http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=13777


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## c4th (20 Sep 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Why not have kept all the horse barns at bases just in case horses make a comeback too......
> 
> :



Strats


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## aesop081 (20 Sep 2009)

Trust No One said:
			
		

> Strats



wow...my point went right over your head......


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## c4th (20 Sep 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> wow...my point went right over your head......



Not really.  I got your point and I don't honestly think horses will replace armour though it may have been close at times.  Humour is just so much less funny when you have to explain it.


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## armyvern (22 Sep 2009)

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> I suspect that city bases lead to much higher retention and satisfaction.  What do 2PPCLI spouses do at CFB Shilo - milk the cows?



Probably exactly the same thing that the wives at CFB Petawawa do, what with Ottawa being 2.5 hours away and all ...  :


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## Scott (22 Sep 2009)

Okay folks, I am going to ask that you just ignore Dennis Ruhl and report his posts when they come off like they have here. It's becoming painfully obvious to me that Dennis does not even try here, he is here just to troll. He's been warned before about this and I won't be long taking action if he continues. The best thing to do with a troll is ignore it so I am asking your help with that.

Dennis, you are on the ramp.


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## MPSHIELD (23 Sep 2009)

Carbon-14 said:
			
		

> The Base Commander was interviewed on another forum I frequent.  He was ask about reopening the runways.  His answer:
> 
> Full interview here:
> http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=13777



Carbon-14-Thanks for the info. 

I truly believe that opening the airfield would have a good benefit for army usage. Perhaps even when leaving on tour the family would be able to see the member get on the plane not to mention the logistical side. Anyway we will have to wait and see.

Thanks for the info everyone.


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## aesop081 (23 Sep 2009)

TAC MP said:
			
		

> I truly believe that opening the airfield would have a good benefit for army usage. Perhaps even when leaving on tour the family would be able to see the member get on the plane not to mention the logistical side.



There's a diffence between what seems to be proposed and a fully operational runway capable of operating major aircraft with IFR facilities and all the airfield equipment that it entails. theres alot more to it than just a few thousand feet of pavement.

Runway remidiation at other bases has been expensive and that was at installations that already have all it takes to operate a modern airfield.

Edmonton Intl. is that far.........


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## basrah (25 Sep 2009)

With city centre airport closing in the next few years, it would be great to have this open. Military flights with politicians, or high ranking officials would certainly benefit from this. Also, being that there is a para company here, it would certainly beat driving an hour just to get there. We could simply walk out to the runway, do a couple racetracks, and jump!

Ah, it is but a dream though.


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