# All about MilPoints



## Mike Bobbitt

Folks,

I'd like to introduce you all to the newly enabled *MilPoints* system. By now you've probably noticed the little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 logos around here, so allow me to give a quick overview.

In essence, the new MilPoints system is designed to reward "good" behaviour and allow the community at large to self-regulate by providing an avenue for user-to-user feedback.

Yes, this is another rating scheme, but that's just a small part of the overall MilPoints system. As you can see in the MilPoints FAQ, even without user-to-user ratings you can earn (or lose) MilPoints just by your daily activities. More importantly, the rating component of this system is completely transparent, unlike previous incarnations. That is, when you rate someone else's post you can classify it and leave a note to indicate why you rated the way you did. The "target" can see your note, as can every other user here, so it becomes impossible to take pot shots from the shadows.

Information on the MilPoints system can be found in the MilPoints FAQ, but of course I'd be happy to answer any questions about it.

Development of the MilPoints system has been going on in the background for almost a year. Still, I expect that there will be some hiccups as we get this thing off the ground. I'll do my best to address any problems quickly and fairly, but please bear with me, it may be a bumpy ride.

Some links:


The MilPoints FAQ
Your MilPoints detailed history
Statistics


Enjoy!
Mike


----------



## Snafu-Bar

Sure... post a new thread to steal the lead and pad your headstart  ;D


You might want to ammend the time online to prevent squatters leaving the page open overnight to pad some points. 

Cheers.


----------



## Shamrock

I propose a penalty for people who's post consists of any of the following:

1.  Do a search.
2. +1
3.  Mods, lock this thread.
4.  Mods, move this thread.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Considering Mods use your 1) as well and that is part of our job....


----------



## Good2Golf

Shamrock said:
			
		

> I propose a penalty for people who's post consists of any of the following:
> 
> ...
> 3.  Mods, lock this thread.
> 4.  Mods, move this thread.



...without at least having submitted a "REPORT TO MODERATOR" message first.


----------



## aesop081

I dont care much for a rating system ( seen many come and go here) and i dont act according to my rating so....

1) I will still tell you to search ;
2) I will still tell dumbasses that they are in fact....well...dumbasses ;
3) I will still answer all questions as best as i can ; and
4) My posting style ( sarcastic, abrasive and generaly in your face) will remain unchanged.

I look forward to all the negative feedback, it just encourages me.

Yours truely,

CDN Aviator


----------



## armyvern

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> Sure... post a new thread to steal the lead and pad your headstart  ;D
> 
> 
> You might want to ammend the time online to prevent squatters leaving the page open overnight to pad some points.
> 
> Cheers.



I think I'm the only squatter around here. 

Mike,

Did that little "MP" icon just go up today? I've not noticed it until now.  ???


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

I missed it too initally Vern


----------



## navymich

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> You might want to ammend the time online to prevent squatters leaving the page open overnight to pad some points.



Sorry, I can't find the thread talking about it right now.  But regarding time online, you need to refresh the page, or be continually using the site or your time doesn't add up.  IIRC it is 15 minutes and you 'time out'?  Mike?


----------



## armyvern

airmich said:
			
		

> Sorry, I can't find the thread talking about it right now.  But regarding time online, you need to refresh the page, or be continually using the site or your time doesn't add up.  IIRC it is 15 minutes and you 'time out'?  Mike?



Correct. You need to "click" on a button on the site at least once every 15 minutes to have your _time online _ updated.

Although, on the main forum index page ... users showing as "online", show for 1/2 hour should they not logout. Their time doesn't count unless they are actually active (15 minute rule in effect).


----------



## navymich

Chapeski said:
			
		

> I sometimes leave my browser open overnight by accident. Last night I did it with milnet.ca open, so I would feel bad taking free points for me doing something stupid. I personally don't know about the time online bit. I guess I can't opt out of this part can I.



Just read what Vern wrote right before you posted and you will see that you have no worries and no need to feel bad.


----------



## Shamrock

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Considering Mods use your 1) as well and that is part of our job....



No point in having mods subjected to a rating system at all -- by simply moderating, you're subject to negative ratings from vengeful idiots.

While this token-based morality may bring a few people in line, there are a few individuals here who are chronic assholes.  For some, negative karma seemed to be a point of pride before its fiery demise.


----------



## George Wallace

Shamrock said:
			
		

> No point in having mods subjected to a rating system at all -- by simply moderating, you're subject to negative ratings from vengeful idiots.



Well......When someone decides to be a vengeful idiot and subject anyone, not just the Mods, to negative ratings, they will be visible for all to see.  They will also have to justify their negative rating of a person.


----------



## armyvern

Can someone please _please_ assure me that nothing in "Radio Chatter" counts towards these points? 

Mother of Gawd ... as a former mod ... I'm already feeling bad for the sheer volume increase in the number of 100% totally useless comments, posts, and "jokes of the day" or other "idiotic and assinine news" and new threads the current mods will have to wade through watching bandwidth.  :-\

(I know, I make enough of those posts myself in there)


----------



## Shamrock

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well......When someone decides to be a vengeful idiot and subject anyone, not just the Mods, to negative ratings, they will be visible for all to see.  They will also have to justify their negative rating of a person.



The title DS should be all the readership should need to accept the authority of the speaker.  If negative rating is a result of childish attacks, then it does little more than undermine the authority of the staff and lessen the professional appearance of this site; if the negative rating is a result of conduct unbecoming a staff member, then he or she should be politely shown the ramp without the general population/peanut gallery becoming involved.

Besides, I doubt many will look at who provides the feedback, simply the value beside the poster.


----------



## navymich

Okay Mike, here is a question for you:  in the FAQ's, it says that you receive 20 pts for being online for 1 hr.  When does the clock start for this?  Looking at my milpoints history, it has given me 20pts and states "Congratulations! You've been online for 3,427 Hours!"


----------



## armyvern

airmich said:
			
		

> Okay Mike, here is a question for you:  in the FAQ's, it says that you receive 20 pts for being online for 1 hr.  When does the clock start for this?  Looking at my milpoints history, it has given me 20pts and states "Congratulations! You've been online for 3,427 Hours!"



I'm thinking that it's just starting today, and you've just hit your first hour online since it began (no backdating of points it would seem). Mine says this:



> 2008-08-29 16:47:06 ArmyVern 20 Congratulations! You've been online for 4,888 Hours!


----------



## navymich

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm thinking that it's just starting today, and you've just hit your first hour online since it began (no backdating of points it would seem). Mine says this:



That was my assumption too Vern, about it just starting today.  From the time that I first posted with the start of MPs, I've not (to my calculation) been online for an hour yet.  But hey, I'm on leave...what do I know about time?!?! ;D


----------



## George Wallace

airmich said:
			
		

> Okay Mike, here is a question for you:  in the FAQ's, it says that you receive 20 pts for being online for 1 hr.  When does the clock start for this?  Looking at my milpoints history, it has given me 20pts and states "Congratulations! You've been online for 3,427 Hours!"



It looks like it is a "Default" number set by Mike to get this set up and running.  I am sure that all the longtime members of the site will start off with this "Default" setting.



> 2008-08-29 16:29:59    George Wallace    20     Congratulations! You've been online for 6,460 Hours!



Mike will have to clarify what he used for a cutoff, and what a 'newbie' starts at.


----------



## navymich

Here's another one.  Are subscribers being punished?  You get +2 pts for clicking on an ad, but part of the subscriber function is that you don't see the ads.  

*expecting to get docked points for being a pest and posting too many questions!  ;D


----------



## George Wallace

Where is the link to the Statistics, other than in this Topic?



			
				Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Some links:
> 
> 
> The MilPoints FAQ
> Your MilPoints detailed history
> Statistics
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> Mike


----------



## Strike

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm thinking that it's just starting today, and you've just hit your first hour online since it began (no backdating of points it would seem). Mine says this:
> 
> 
> 
> 2008-08-29 16:29:59    George Wallace    20     Congratulations! You've been online for 6,460 Hours!
Click to expand...


Vern...don't think it will take too long for you to hit the top spot in the leader board.   ;D  Wonder what you will be up to by tomorrow!


----------



## Shamrock

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Where is the link to the Statistics, other than in this Topic?



Do a search.


----------



## George Wallace

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Do a search.



How many minus points was that?     ;D

The link is in this topic, and in a topic that is also accessed through this topic.  Where else is it?


----------



## Mike Baker

This is cool! I like it ;D


-Deadpan


----------



## NL_engineer

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Do a search.



Didn't you just say that you should loose points for posts like that  ???


----------



## Shamrock

Ignore the man behind the curtain!


----------



## Burrows

This is an interesting concept.  The fact you lose to reward others might help to balance out people.


----------



## Mike Baker

Kyle Burrows said:
			
		

> This is an interesting concept.  The fact you lose to reward others might help to balance out people.


It is. It's better then the +1 an -1 of before (or Karma, as on other forums).


-Dead


----------



## navymich

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The link is in this topic, and in a topic that is also accessed through this topic.  Where else is it?



It would make it easier to view if it was in a drop-down menu, maybe with the admin or information features?  Also, it would be nice to be able to access one's own MP history through our profiles instead of having to look at a post to click on 'MP' there.

As well, looking at the  statistics, the links for everyone's 'MP' is dead.

But for being a year in the making, it's looking very well Mike.  Heck, it took 10 years for the new ruck and look where that's at.


----------



## armyvern

airmich said:
			
		

> It would make it easier to view if it was in a drop-down menu, maybe with the admin or information features?  Also, it would be nice to be able to access one's own MP history through our profiles instead of having to look at a post to click on 'MP' there.
> 
> As well, looking at the  statistics, the links for everyone's 'MP' is dead.
> 
> But for being a year in the making, it's looking very well Mike.  Heck, it took 10 years for the new ruck and look where that's at.



I don't see a link in there to "everyone" ... but holy crap!! Chapeski is at -5 already.    Supply Techs ... always pissing people off.  >


----------



## George Wallace

These types of rankings, no matter how honest they seem, can be "false indicators".  We can have an arsehole online for a long period of time, gaining points merely for being online, and starting or posting crap and at the same time we can have a poster who posts occasionally, isn't online that much, but whose posts are thoughtful, enlightening, and interesting, but still not in the high percentile when it comes to ranking.  

In the end, one will have to look at the posts that a person makes to judge their merit.  Even a newbie, with less than 100 points, can make a post that is brilliant; while a longtime member can make a series of extremely poor posts.

'But then again, what percentile of the readership is going to pay attention to either the ranking, or a person's posting history?


----------



## navymich

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I don't see a link in there to "everyone" ... but holy crap!! Chapeski is at -5 already.    Supply Techs ... always pissing people off.  >



Okay, not 'everyone', but all the people that are on the lists! 

Notice too, that those with the same totals are in a different order on each list?


----------



## Mike Baker

A year in the making?! I missed that when Mike posted.

Most have been really Opsec, since I have bombarded him with things that could be added to the site and stuff 



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> These types of rankings, no matter how honest they seem, can be "false indicators".  We can have an arsehole online for a long period of time, gaining points merely for being online, and starting or posting crap and at the same time we can have a poster who posts occasionally, isn't online that much, but whose posts are thoughtful, enlightening, and interesting, but still not in the high percentile when it comes to ranking.
> 
> In the end, one will have to look at the posts that a person makes to judge their merit.  Even a newbie, with less than 100 points, can make a post that is brilliant; while a longtime member can make a series of extremely poor posts.
> 
> 'But then again, what percentile of the readership is going to pay attention to either the ranking, or a person's posting history?



I agree with that quite a bit. (Funny I thought about myself when I read that ;D)

-Dead


----------



## armyvern

George Wallace said:
			
		

> These types of rankings, no matter how honest they seem, can be "false indicators".  We can have an arsehole online for a long period of time, gaining points merely for being online, and starting or posting crap and at the same time we can have a poster who posts occasionally, isn't online that much, but whose posts are thoughtful, enlightening, and interesting, but still not in the high percentile when it comes to ranking.
> 
> In the end, one will have to look at the posts that a person makes to judge their merit.  Even a newbie, with less than 100 points, can make a post that is brilliant; while a longtime member can make a series of extremely poor posts.
> 
> 'But then again, what percentile of the readership is going to pay attention to either the ranking, or a person's posting history?



So true that ...



> Date User Amount Description
> 
> 2008-08-29 16:40:31 Chapeski -15 DELETED Post: Re: Introducing MilPoints
> 2008-08-29 16:39:23 Chapeski 10 Re: Introducing MilPoints



And it turns out that Chapeski nailed himself by deleting his post that Mich quoted earlier in this thread --- or did one of you mods delete it!!??  >

 :-*

So there's another question for you Mike,

If a mod deletes a member's useless post -- is the mod losing points for that ... or is the member??  ???

As a test case ... a mod should delete some useless post of mine --- just so we can see how it shows up. I'm quite OK with that.   ;D


----------



## George Wallace

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> So true that ...
> 
> And it turns out that Chapeski nailed himself by deleting his post that Mich quoted earlier in this thread --- or did one of you mods delete it!!??  >
> 
> :-*
> 
> So there's another question for you Mike,
> 
> If a mod deletes a member's useless post -- is the mod losing points for that ... or is the member??  ???
> 
> As a test case ... a mod should delete some useless post of mine --- just so we can see how it shows up. I'm quite OK with that.   ;D



I already split off one of my posts and a "double post" from another member.  When I deleted that "New Topic" I lost 30 points, as did that other member.


----------



## George Wallace

Well.  That worked.  I deleted Vern's post as she requested.  She dropped 15 points, and anyone who wants can check her "standings" by clicking on the "MP".  My score was unrewarded.....  :-[

(I wonder if Mike was subliminally thinking of Military Police when he thought this up?   ;D )


----------



## armyvern

> 2008-08-29 20:46:55 ArmyVern -15 DELETED Post: Re: Introducing MilPoints



No, that's good. At least it didn't deduct points from you too for deleting the post!!  >


----------



## George Wallace

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> No, that's good. At least it didn't deduct points from you too for deleting the post!!  >



I suppose that I can "promote" you for being such an understanding member and such and such and replenish your points for the little contribution to the topic by conducting this experiment and all......  ;D


----------



## armyvern

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I suppose that I can "promote" you for being such an understanding member and such and such and replenish your points for the little contribution to the topic by conducting this experiment and all......  ;D



Spread the wealth ...


----------



## SupersonicMax

How many MilPoints for a free plane ticket?


----------



## Mike Baker

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> How many MilPoints for a free plane ticket?


How much money do you think Mike gets from us? 

I mean, even if we did have MilAirlines, I bet the food would suck, seating terrible, and it'd be hard to even get a ticket 

-Dead


----------



## George Wallace

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Spread the wealth ...



Guess I'll have to stay online for several days to get above the 10 point mark.

Max

I think that would take 20 years on the old Retirement Plan.   ;D  

25 years of posting on this new plan.


----------



## armyvern

Deadpan said:
			
		

> How much money do you think Mike gets from us?
> ...



I'm going to let my subscription expire ... (it's due next month again, I think) just so I can sit here all night while you all sleep and rack up 2 points for every advertisement I click!!  >


----------



## George Wallace

Deadpan said:
			
		

> How much money do you think Mike gets from us?
> 
> I mean, even if we did have MilAirlines, I bet the food would suck, seating terrible, and it'd be hard to even get a ticket
> 
> -Dead



Well, there was talk of a Deal with ZOOM.   >


----------



## armyvern

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well, there was talk of a Deal with ZOOM.   >



Whoooaaa!! Didn't they cash in all their Air Miles yesterday?? I think that you're trying to rip us off.


----------



## NL_engineer

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm going to let my subscription expire ... (it's due next month again, I think) just so I can sit here all night while you all sleep and rack up 2 points for every advertisement I click!!  >



But that's cheating  ;D


----------



## Mike Baker

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well, there was talk of a Deal with ZOOM.   >


:rofl:



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm going to let my subscription expire ... (it's due next month again, I think) just so I can sit here all night while you all sleep and rack up 2 points for every advertisement I click!!  >


Darn, I have to wait until next year for that to happen, but I don't think it will 


-Deadpan


----------



## armyvern

You can all laugh now, but the mod (or Mike) who laughs last will be the one who comes in here and deletes all these posts, sending our "scores" plumetting lower than my morale went today as I was yelling during parade practice and a certain engineer doing his BFT marched by laughing at us.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Hope you gave him a good tongue lashing  ;D


----------



## armyvern

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Hope you gave him a good tongue lashing  ;D



I was giving drill en francais monsieur ... weapons were present - I couldn't slip back into english that quickly. I don't speak french ... I was concentrating really hard on what I was doing (but really, I would have stopped to YELL at him - had the BRSM not been there; I may be dumb, but I am far from stupid!!  ). But, I was sooooo wishing that I was him up there rucking instead.


----------



## NL_engineer

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> You can all laugh now, but the mod (or Mike) who laughs last will be the one who comes in here and deletes all these posts, sending our "scores" plumetting lower than my morale went today as I was yelling during parade practice and a certain engineer doing his BFT marched by laughing at us.



We weren't laughing, but saying sucks to be them  ;D


----------



## Strike

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well, there was talk of a Deal with ZOOM.   >



Ooooh George.  That's harsh.  I think I may have to drain some more from my single malt stash just to relax a bit after yesterday.  May have to deduct a few points from you just for stressing me out with that remark.   >


----------



## vonGarvin

Do we get bonus points for posting from the Tim's at Pet on a Friday Night? ;D


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Do we get bonus points for posting from the Tim's at Pet on a Friday Night? ;D



Only if you send us all a double double


----------



## brihard

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Do we get bonus points for posting from the Tim's at Pet on a Friday Night? ;D



Nope. You just get to feel awful about your life when it hits you that you're at Tims, in Pet, on a Friday night.  ;D


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Let me take a crack at answering some questions here... Posts in Radio Chatter don't count. When a mod deletes a post or thread, the user who made the post loses the points, but the mod should lose nothing (unless it was his own post).

For the online time, it started yesterday when I enabled the system, and if you had XXX hours and 59 minutes in your tally, you'd earn 20 MilPoints by hanging around an extra minute. Retroactive hours online don't count, just the new ones. Every time your time online crosses another hour boundary, you'll get 20 points.

Yes, subscribers are at a bit of a disadvantage with the ads... I'll have to see what I can do about that... likely a subscriber bonus for signing up or maintaining your membership.

Thinks for me to do:


 add MilPoints links to the dropdown menu.
 Looking at the  statistics, the links for everyone's 'MP' is dead.
 Access MilPoints history from the profile.
 Add a global history page
Take you to a member's MilPoints page when you click on the MP logo next to their name on the statistics page.


(I'm not at home right now so I just need to keep track of all this until I am.)

Keep the questions and comments coming!


----------



## Mike Baker

Q:What can I do with my MilPoints? 
A:Currently, nothing but marvel at your rising balance. There are plans in the works though, so please be patient. In the mean time rack 'em up! 


So what are these plans? Or are we allowed to know? 


-Dead

Edit: Mike do you think that one should get points when they vote in a poll? Get 2 Points like if someone clicks on an add or something?

Edit again because I can't spell :


----------



## Celticgirl

Deadpan said:
			
		

> So what are these plans? Or are we aloud allowed to know?



Sorry...one of my pet peeves!  

(Extra points for checking grammar? )


----------



## armyvern

Actualy ...

That's an awesome idea!!

+10 points for clicking "check spelling" (of course that wouldn't cut down on your noted "aloud" as it is a proper word, but a whole lot of posts would look a whole lot better around here!!).


----------



## Celticgirl

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Actualy ...
> 
> That's an awesome idea!!
> 
> +10 points for clicking "check spelling" (of course that wouldn't cut down on your noted "aloud" as it is a proper word, but a whole lot of posts would look a whole lot better around here!!).



True. Homonyms are a problem.  Maybe 2 points for "previewing" your own post, which might encourage people to read what they are about to post and correct their own errors? (Here is the teacher in me coming out. )


----------



## armyvern

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> True. Homonyms are a problem.  Maybe 2 points for "previewing" your own post, which might encourage people to read what they are about to post and correct their own errors? (Here is the teacher in me coming out. )



In today's age of MSN speak, I'm not so sure that most of them would even recognize their own errors to effect a correction of them - unfortunately.


----------



## midget-boyd91

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> but a whole lot of posts would look a whole lot better around here!!).



They shore wood.

Midget


----------



## Mike Baker

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> They shore wood.
> 
> Midget


You mean "Day shore wood," right? ;D


But that is a very good idea Vern has.

-Dead


----------



## armyvern

Deadpan said:
			
		

> You mean "Day shore wood," right? ;D
> 
> 
> But that is a very good idea Vern has.
> 
> -Dead



It was not my idea, celetic girl came up with it.


----------



## Mike Baker

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> It was not my idea, celetic girl came up with it.


Yes yes of course. She may have had the original idea, but you ran with it 


-00Dead


----------



## midget-boyd91

It's a good idea yes. However, only as long as there aren't any spelling mistakes in the post afterwards.

I think I can probably count the number of times I've actually clicked on 'Spell check' on one hand since becoming a member here.
I try to keep my posts, and mostly all things written/typed as grammatically correct as possible, which is strange, because whenever I'm out back sitting around the fire or just talking with buds, my grammar is horrible. :blotto:

Midget


----------



## George Wallace

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> It was not my idea, celetic girl came up with it.



Yes.  She was much faster than me to post, so my recommendation of -1 point per spelling mistake wasn't posted.  That would, of course, include MSN Speak; but not include recognized abbreviations.  Some people would make one mistake and -1 wouldn't be to significant; but others would loose in the range of -10 to -50.  

Should we also include:

     Posting in a font colour that makes your message unreadable;
     Poor Grammar;
     Run-on sentences; 
     Lack of proper quotes; and
     Silly post without a Search;
     
etc. in with the "deduction of points list"?


----------



## armyvern

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> It's a good idea yes. However, only as long as there aren't any spelling mistakes in the post afterwards.
> 
> I think I can probably count the number of times I've actually clicked on 'Spell check' on one hand since becoming a member here.
> I try to keep my posts, and mostly all things written/typed as grammatically correct as possible, which is strange, because whenever I'm out back sitting around the fire or just talking with buds, my grammar is horrible. :blotto:
> 
> Midget



I rarely click on spellcheck either, but that's why you'll see a great number of my posts with an "edited" line underneath them after I've gone back to correct typos etc. I _guess_ that means that I don't 'preview' my posts either.

Ergo that ability to actually "recognize" a mistake when it hits me upside the head. No one is perfect, but it'll certainly cut down on the bad bad bad spelling around here. Some posts are unrecognizeable/unreadable due to the volume of MSN speak and typos within them; spellcheck may not pick up the homonynms, but at least we'll recognize the word for what's it's intent was - it may not be proper grammar, but at least it becomes decipherable.

Oh, and edited to add:  I'm from the Miramichi ... you should *hear* me in person!!  >  

Also, sorry celticgirl --- I had a typo earlier and you thus morphed in cel_e_ticgirl; spellcheck wasn't good with either of them -- I hit "ignore".  ;D


----------



## stryte

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Should we also include:
> 
> Posting in a font colour that makes your message unreadable;
> Poor Grammar;
> Run-on sentences;
> Lack of proper quotes; and
> Silly post without a Search;
> 
> etc. in with the "deduction of points list"?



Any undesirable posts that would have you as DS inform the user of their errors or of the expectation of users on this site should in my opinion result in a loss of MilPoints.


----------



## Kat Stevens

All points automatically lost and a months banishment for using "methinks".


----------



## Celticgirl

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> All points automatically lost and a months banishment for using "methinks".



Oh come now, that is a valid English word. 



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Also, sorry celticgirl --- I had a typo earlier and you thus morphed in cel_e_ticgirl; spellcheck wasn't good with either of them -- I hit "ignore".  ;D



-10 points for spelling my username incorrectly!  >


----------



## Strike

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> -10 points for spelling my username incorrectly!  >



In the same vein, refering to dapaterson as dataperson.   ;D


----------



## Blackadder1916

Though MilPoints will be (automatically?) deducted when a new topic or post is removed by the DS, does anything happen when a DS either moves a topic to another (more appropriate) category or adds it to an already existing thread on the subject?  Sometimes the circumstances may not warrant some sort of penalty for a good faith error, but sometimes it should.  Perhaps there should be a mechanism for the DS to "dock points" for such violations  without it being reflected in an individual DS's account.

_(I should have started another post with this further thought in order to get more points)_

Is there any automatic deduction or other MilPoints action for pers who enter the warning system?  It would seem to be a logical consequence of their actions.  At the least, there should be a restriction on their ability to (negatively) assess another member.


----------



## kratz

I think members on the warning system should be allowed to rate others. Yes, the individual has broken the rules, but the warning system is there to allow them to participate and show that they continue to be valued members. There is not a need to heap punishment onto them. There will be a portion of those on the warning system who are out to retaliate, but the MP system costs 30points to rate someone down 10points. More often than not, the retaliation will be a bump down for someone and not worth a change to the system.


----------



## armyvern

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> All points automatically lost and a months banishment for using "methinks".



And, -100 for all threads that are, to quote the famous Infidel 6 







So, here you all go just because I'm in a generous mood today ...


----------



## George Wallace

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> And, -100 for all threads that are, to quote the famous Infidel 6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, here you all go just because I'm in a generous mood today ...



Without the photo, that would have constituted an excessive use of epicons, but the loss of 100 points would have probably been compensated by the addition of 300 plus points from the peanut gallery.    ;D


----------



## armyvern

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Without the photo, that would have constituted an excessive use of epicons, but the loss of 100 points would have probably been compensated by the addition of 300 plus points from the peanut gallery.    ;D



Plus an added bonus +500 for me because someone looks so darn 'fat' in that picture, but wore it (& posted it) anyway!!  ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Plus an added bonus +500 for me because someone looks so darn 'fat phat' in that picture, but wore it (& posted it) anyway!!  ;D



 ;D


----------



## aesop081

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Plus an added bonus +500 for me because someone looks so darn 'fat' in that picture, but wore it (& posted it) anyway!!  ;D



+1000 for me because i put you up to it  ;D


----------



## armyvern

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> +1000 for me because i put you up to it  ;D



Sorry _dood_ - 'methinks' Kat Stevens has you beat there!!  >


----------



## George Wallace

I wonder if Mike is giving himself any bonus points for creating a "Hot Topic"?  

Six pages so far, just on a new feature on the site.


----------



## Kat Stevens

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Sorry _dood_ - 'methinks' Kat Stevens has you beat there!!  >



I banish thee, begone, and all your cool points are forfeit.


----------



## armyvern

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I banish thee, begone, and all your cool points are forfeit.



Oh sure, and here I am getting scrappy down here mud-wrestling with CDN Aviator in an attempt to get you the proper credit for the +1000 points ... and you banish me


----------



## aesop081

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


----------



## Kat Stevens

Hey, rules is rules.  I don't make the rules... well, except for that one... I just more or less live with them


----------



## Fishbone Jones

OK. If I have to stop this car...............


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Forgot to mention that you do get docked points if you get put on warning, and that DS can add or dock points if it's necessary, but it's all logged and above board... no vendetta hits allowed. Actually the DS don't even know how to do it yet, that'll come shortly.


----------



## Burrows

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Forgot to mention that you do get docked points if you get put on warning, and that DS can add or dock points if it's necessary, but it's all logged and above board... no vendetta hits allowed. Actually the DS don't even know how to do it yet, that'll come shortly.


Great, now I haaaave to ask.  

Actually, now that we can do that - I'll award 20 points for a good post report and deduct 120 for all wastes of time.   >


----------



## Mike Baker

Hey Mike, you think that one should get like, 30-50 Points if your logged in for 24 hours?


-Dead


----------



## George Wallace

Deadpan said:
			
		

> Hey Mike, you think that one should get like, 30-50 Points if your logged in for 24 hours?
> 
> 
> -Dead



Reading the FAQs brings up this point:



> Q:How do I collect MilPoints?
> 
> A:MilPoints are automatically accrued by contributing to Army.ca. Specifically, here are how you can accrue (or lose!) MiPoints on Army.ca: Action Points
> 
> 
> New Topic                       20
> Topic Removed              -30
> New Post                        10
> Post Removed              -15
> New Quote                     10
> Quote Removed            -20
> New Calendar Entry         10
> Calendar Entry Removed -20
> 1 Hour Online            20



So 24 hrs online would earn you 480 pionts.


----------



## Mike Baker

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So 24 hrs online would earn you 480 pionts.



Whoops, never realized that.

-Dead


----------



## Greymatters

The reward for points online, is that a new idea Mike (et al) originated?  Dont recall seeing anything like that elsewhere...


Oh, will there also be minus points for excessive 'MSN speak' or too many spelling errors?   >


----------



## Greymatters

Or excessive use of smileys... ?   :-[


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

As far as I know we're the first forum to reward time online. You may get dinged for MSN speak if someone nails you for it, but there's no heuristic detection of it. Yet.


----------



## Edward Campbell

See here.

I observed that I collected points for just forgetting to log off but I was curious about another issue so I logged on using Linux/Opera and just left the computer on overnight - but logged on to Army.ca. I did not pick up any points. This my question:

Mike, does your software recognize users logged in with browsers other than IE and Firefox?


----------



## axeman

still cant find what the MILPOINTS get you .  cani get a new car or a fancy new army .ca hat?


----------



## Mike Baker

axeman said:
			
		

> still cant find what the MILPOINTS get you .  cani get a new car or a fancy new army .ca hat?


Nothing, yet.



> Q:What can I do with my MilPoints?
> A:Currently, nothing but marvel at your rising balance. There are plans in the works though, so please be patient. In the mean time rack 'em up!



-Dead


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Edward, all browsers should be recognized and treated equally for the boards in terms of time online etc. Opera is also picked up by the stats, but Chrome is just too new, I'll have to wait for an update to the stats program first. Still, the numbers won't affect time online.

I checked your MilPoints history and didn't observe any weirdness... all "time online" points were more than an hour apart insinuating you were at a keyboard each time...


----------



## Mike Baker

Yeah Mike, when I was on Chrome, I changed my display picture, and it never changed on Chrome, but on IE7, Firefox, and Safari it did. 

I guess it's just because it's so new.


-Dead


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

No, that's because Chrome cached your old profile pic which is at the same location as your new one. So when it displayed that image URL it just picked the old image from your cache instead of fetching the new one. A forced reload (not sure of the key combo for that in Chrome) usually sorts that out...


Cheers
Mike

(Incidentally posted via Chrome. )


----------



## Mike Baker

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> No, that's because Chrome cached your old profile pic which is at the same location as your new one. So when it displayed that image URL it just picked the old image from your cache instead of fetching the new one. A forced reload (not sure of the key combo for that in Chrome) usually sorts that out...
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Mike
> 
> (Incidentally posted via Chrome. )


Ah! Thanks Mike!

-Deadpan


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Folks, to encourage the spirit of giving (or taking!) I've dropped the cost of assessing another user's post from 30 MilPoints down to 10 MilPoints. Hopefully that will encourage some additional participation!

Cheers
Mike

P.S. I'm also open to suggestions for additional categories (Helpful, Trolling, etc.)


----------



## navymich

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Thinks for me to do:
> 
> 
> add MilPoints links to the dropdown menu.
> Looking at the  statistics, the links for everyone's 'MP' is dead.
> Access MilPoints history from the profile.
> Add a global history page
> Take you to a member's MilPoints page when you click on the MP logo next to their name on the statistics page.



And how many bonus points do we get for coming up with useful comments/questions/suggestions??


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Probably the same number I get for implementing the ideas. 

P.S. 1, 2 and 5 are done!


----------



## Jarnhamar

SO all I need to rack up my points is sit on army.ca all day and go post crazy!
I'll  +1 myself to the top.

Just curious.  If I get a whole bunch of milpoints BUT I get put on C&P can I take some of my milpoints and have my C&P reduced to a written or verbal warning?
Could I cash in a few thousand milpoints and have a mod get my warning thrown out?


----------



## Mike Baker

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> SO all I need to rack up my points is sit on army.ca all day and go post crazy!
> I'll  +1 myself to the top.
> 
> Just curious.  If I get a whole bunch of milpoints BUT I get put on C&P can I take some of my milpoints and have my C&P reduced to a written or verbal warning?
> Could I cash in a few thousand milpoints and have a mod get my warning thrown out?


Why do I think that's a good idea? ;D

-Deadpan


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Heheh, nice theory... but if your posts are low value, they'll be removed and you'll be worse off than when you started. And there's no get out of jail free card, sorry.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

Who decides if a post is low value?

Does that mean if me you and deadpan don't like what airmich wrote about something we can somehow blast his post into limbo?

If somene has a high milpoint count, like 8000 because they've spent a week straight on here or dropped tones of yes I agree, +1, lol, right, does that mean their input and 'value' is higher than me cruising with a whopping 50 or 60 points?

Can we rate someones post and leave comments?


----------



## Snafu-Bar

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I'm trying to wrap my head around this.
> 
> Who decides if a post is low value?
> 
> Does that mean if me you and deadpan don't like what airmich wrote about something we can somehow blast his post into limbo?
> 
> If somene has a high milpoint count, like 8000 because they've spent a week straight on here or dropped tones of yes I agree, +1, lol, right, does that mean their input and 'value' is higher than me cruising with a whopping 50 or 60 points?
> 
> Can we rate someones post and leave comments?




 Well i clicked the milpoints icon in your message post and it let me rate your message and either award or remove milpoints with a box for my comment. I added 10 milpoints to you for the sake of argument.

 Cheers.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> ...
> Who decides if a post is low value?
> ...



The Mods.

For example: this morning I posted a brief comment saying "This is already being discussed here and suggesting that the Mods should merge the topics.

They did and they, *very properly*, deleted my post because it added no value to the discussion. That cost me 15 MilPoints  :'(  but am I complaining?

No, siree, for the record.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Weird I clicked it but couldn't rate anyone. Maybe I Need x amount of points before I can start dropping rateing bombs?


----------



## Jarnhamar

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The Mods.



So can a regular joe user like me give someone negitive points?

Edit: Nevermind I'm trackin now!


----------



## Edward Campbell

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> So can a regular joe user like me give someone negitive points?



Yes, see here, but, as you surmised, you need a minimum 'score' to assess someone else and each assessment will cost you points to make.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Since Mike won't let me use a get out of Jail free card I'm going to start a Mods'R'Bullies service.  

Noobs give me +10 milpoints cookies and I in turn use my massive high milpoint rating to give their Mod nemesis's bad cookies  >


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

You can assess right out of the gate but the more points you have, the more you can award/dock someone else for. And to answer this question:



			
				Flawed Design said:
			
		

> If somene has a high milpoint count, like 8000 because they've spent a week straight on here or dropped tones of yes I agree, +1, lol, right, does that mean their input and 'value' is higher than me cruising with a whopping 50 or 60 points?



Posts like that are likely to be deleted, so again, the user will be docked more for "useless posts" than they would have accumulated, so they'd likely be in the red.

P.S. Edward I hit your post above and gave you the 15 points back.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Since Mike won't let me use a get out of Jail free card I'm going to start a Mods'R'Bullies service.
> 
> Noobs give me +10 milpoints cookies and I in turn use my massive high milpoint rating to give their Mod nemesis's bad cookies  >



Ah, the crusader for the weak. Intentional abuse is the single largest "fly in the ointment" to any organized peer rating system. I'm anxious to see how it plays out in this _transparent_ system where the crusaders can't fire anonymous arrows from the shadows.  >


----------



## Edward Campbell

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> ...
> P.S. Edward I hit your post above and gave you the 15 points back.



No need, Mike, unless you're going to change the system - which may be very difficult because a penalty for deletions should apply  - or instruct Mods to do the same for everyone in the same circumstances.


----------



## navymich

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Does that mean if me you and deadpan don't like what airmich wrote about something we can somehow blast his post into limbo?



Hey now!  What did I ever do to you guys??  I think I should be awarded extra points due to slander!  ;D (P.S. I'm a 'she')


----------



## Jarnhamar

This crusader don't do shadows Sire! You should know that  

Rating systems are only effective when the user cares about his rating.
Remember when we had that +1/-1 system up a while ago?  Some people (mods and senior members included) started getting some serious negitive point and proclaimed 'Well I don't even care what anyone says, I don't care for my rating'.

It looks like a lot of work has gone into this and I sincerely hope it's a big success. The non-frosted side of me however is cynical.  A few mods have over time been accuse of being heavy handed, making things personal, out of line etc..  I forsee a rating system where mods (help to/contribute to) control someones public "image" as an invitation for more headaches to the mods and accusations of foul play and empire building.

I really hope the system works out but right away I can see some possible issues with it.  Guess time will tell.


----------



## Burrows

I'd like to think this will work alot better than the +/- simple because we can see the ratings  that have been performed on users,  who performed them, and what it was for.  (at least, mods can)

We've also got an admin system in the backend - and if someone is being ganged up on for no reason, we are able to remove or counteract the rating.


----------



## navymich

Kyle Burrows said:
			
		

> We've also got an admin system in the backend - and if someone is being ganged up on for no reason, we are able to remove or counteract the rating.



Unless it's Kyle that is being ganged up.  It's typical and expected so the other mods just turn a blind eye to it.


----------



## Burrows

airmich said:
			
		

> Unless it's Kyle that is being ganged up.  It's typical and expected so the other mods just turn a blind eye to it.


Yeah, then I'll just ban you.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Kyle, all members can see everyone's ratings/assessments/etc., so the system is completely open.

Edward, I agree... making an exception is a bad thing, and I'd like to see the system "work" without having to make exceptions. The deletion penalty is based on the (sometimes incorrect) assumption that a post is being deleted because it has low value. The idea is to discourage low value posts and encourage higher value posts. It's a stretch for sure, but it's not likely to make the situation worse. (Please quote me on this later! ) There will undoubtedly be adjustments made to the system as we discover weak spots.

Flawed, I'm hoping the openness of this system will prevent abuse from all quarters, including mods propping up or penalizing users unfairly. Yes mods can apply an administrative adjustment to anyone's total, but it's logged and I get an e-mail notification.  I've also stressed quite strongly that it has to be used for truly administrative purposes and not vendettas.


----------



## armyvern

airmich said:
			
		

> Unless it's Kyle that is being ganged up.  It's typical and expected so the other mods just turn a blind eye to it.



I actually highly recommend ganging up on Kyle. He's young, can't defend himself (well, at least he can use that as an excuse anyway). Almost as fun to tease as Lil Kid Baker.


----------



## armyvern

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Kyle, all members can see everyone's ratings/assessments/etc., so the system is completely open.
> 
> Edward, I agree... making an exception is a bad thing, and I'd like to see the system "work" without having to make exceptions. The deletion penalty is based on the (sometimes incorrect) assumption that a post is being deleted because it has low value. The idea is to discourage low value posts and encourage higher value posts. It's a stretch for sure, but it's not likely to make the situation worse. (Please quote me on this later! ) There will undoubtedly be adjustments made to the system as we discover weak spots.
> 
> Flawed, I'm hoping the openness of this system will prevent abuse from all quarters, including mods propping up or penalizing users unfairly. Yes mods can apply an administrative adjustment to anyone's total, but it's logged and I get an e-mail notification.  I've also stressed quite strongly that it has to be used for truly administrative purposes and not vendettas.



Here's one that happened to me a few days ago ...

During the system backup, I made a post pressed "post" and ended up getting the timeout screen, pressed post again. When the system came backup ... the post was there twice. I deleted the double and it cost me 30 points!!

Best CoA??

No more vacations for you ... and no more backups!!  ;D


----------



## Mike Baker

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Almost as fun to tease as Lil Kid Baker.


Yes, but I will get the last laugh, whenever that may be ;D


-Dead


----------



## PanaEng

I like the idea of the MilPoints but I think that, as they are now, they may become more of a thought-control/idea-normalizing tool than promote open discussion - a good comment doesn't have to be popular.
I've been participating in this discussion board called Slashdot ("News for Nerds - stuff that matters" - to geeks) and I have seen how their rating system has evolved - now they are just too big.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/05/1157243
At one time until recently it worked by your karma rating. If you had good karma you could be randomly selected to rate posts up to a certain number of them. In addition, you could also be selected to rate how a post had been rated - if most people agreed with how a post had been rated the person got better karma and could be selected more often to assess other posts. If everyone disagreed with your rating, you lost points. (more or less)
Not perfect but it works.

cheers,
Frank


----------



## George Wallace

Sorry Frank

We tried that and it was a dismal failure.  More than once.  People who hold grudges would anonymously demote people they didn't like.  A clique even formed to gang up and demote a Mod or two.  Now they can`t promote or demote anonymously and have to give a reason.  No childish games there.  Fair and honest promotions and demotions.  As fair and honest as we can get at this time.


----------



## PanaEng

I see. ( I just recently joined in here)
And I do like the system now that I have gone back and read more.

cheers,
Frank


----------



## Yrys

Well...

I logged on 'anonymously' yesterday because it was for a short period of time,
and I had a headache, so I didn't want to have to answer to some P.M.
that may have been send to me, as I was being absent for some time.

So... I learned of the "Milpoints" yesterday. I thought that it was a system
where I would be at 0 points for a long time, since I'm out of the net
more frequently then I'm in.

I was surprised when I logged in today around 17:00 that I was at -30 MP
for a delete post, considering that my lasts posts were done the 9nth of July 
and before!

Shouldn't that earned me a place in the "MilPoint "Tail End Charlies"" ?




			
				Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Ah, the crusader for the weak. Intentional abuse is the single largest "fly in the ointment" to any organized peer rating system. I'm anxious to see how it plays out in this _transparent_ system where the crusaders can't fire anonymous arrows from the shadows.  >



Good. I would like to know (in P.M. please) who deleted one of my posts (since the end of August, when the Milpoints
were introduced) that I make on or before the 9nth of July, so that I end up logging in at  $%&?(&*()( - 30 ?

I presume that I won't even remember the post, would it be send to me...

Thank you.


----------



## Edward Campbell

It's possible, Yrys that your deleted post was not a particular problem in and of itself.

Sometimes a whole thread is, quite properly, deleted and all those who posted in it - including those warning the originator about his ill-conceived thread - lose 30 points.

You'll get them back fast enough.


----------



## Yrys

Thanks Mr. Campbell,

it was a good hypothesis, but it appears that it wasn't what happened, as I received a P.M. with the deleted post 
(a post that I made in May) :

"The most recent post of your that shows deletion was in a redundant thread on enrollment ceremonies that was removed, 
probably during some routine cleaning."


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

As you can imagine, it's difficult to track a thread once it's been deleted, so we often can't tell exactly what the thread was unfortunately.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Holy crap...here take mine.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

All,

Just a quick note to say that purchases from the Army.ca Store will now net you MilPoints as well. For every dollar spent, you'll get 10 MilPoints. This includes shirts, hats, etc. but also annual subscriber fees. Unfortunately only PayPal purchases are included - it's not that I have a particular fondness for PayPal but they're the only type of payments I can automatically process.

Thanks for your ongoing support!


Cheers
Mike


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Brrrr,.......good time to get those army.ca hoodies.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

If we just send money.. can we get milpoints so we can be the coolest kid on the block?


----------



## Marshall

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Brrrr,.......good time to get those army.ca hoodies.



Maybe next winter, I am still wearing-in my purdy T-shirt.  ;D


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

It's the swag, not the points that'll make you the coolest kid on the block.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

My Army.ca thong is still in the prototype stage.  Can I get bonus milpoints when I reveal it to the world?


----------



## Michael OLeary

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> My Army.ca thong is still in the prototype stage.  Can I get bonus milpoints when I reveal it to the world?



A recipient of Milpoints, probably not.

On the other hand, a possible recipient of Aimpoints, a very good chance.


----------



## Marshall

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> My Army.ca thong is still in the prototype stage.  Can I get bonus milpoints when I reveal it to the world?



This guy might be interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmma6o5K-hc&feature=channel_page


----------



## Jarnhamar

When I heard about the milpoints I thought it may be a good way to reward people for good posts and show displeasure at bad ones.

I've been checking out peoples profiles here and there and 99% of peoples points seem to come from being online.
A few trolls have a slew of negitive comments and some good posts have gotten props but over all the system doesn't seem to represent what I assumed it was meant to- positive and negitive feed back (correct me if I'm wrong)

Would a system that works solely on a  good/bad cookie set up be able to represent the quality of someones posts better?
Someone posts something dumb ding them for it. Someone posts something insightful they get a 'good cookie'.  There could be a +/- status bar under the users name to indicate the wether they are in the red or blue. 

Someone might say 'well who really care either way?' but if that's the case why have it then.

What exactly are we using the milpoints for in it's current setup?


----------



## kratz

In fairness, there was a contest that used MilPoints. Some may be saving theirs for another contests.

The -10 penalty was implemented as a temporary measure to encourage members to rate others more often. I do not see it occuring as much either. Until recently, I still saw the standard rainbow post, or "use search function" comment.

For myself, instead of saving points, I have been accepting the -10 and rating members instead of posting. This has a double negative effect on my MPs, since I am not posting an opinion and most new members do not know the value of MPs.

It's worth posting about the MPs and providing feedback on how the system is currently working. I think it has it's place and more can be done with it to make it work as intended.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

We've tried that before and it became a popularity contest and quickly went they way of the dodo bird.


----------



## Jarnhamar

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> We've tried that before and it became a popularity contest and quickly went they way of the dodo bird.


Yes I remember that.
I recall the forums heavy hitters (Or I guess you could say more senior members?) being the most upset when someone neg repped them (us).

Kratz seems to make use of the system quite a bit. He dished out 200 points (good and bad) on the first page of his MP history. More than most people I've looked at. 
Still, in 350 posts Kratz accumulated 10'000 points (he hasn't received any points from other posters on his first page)

In 4300 posts you have close to 50'000 points. On the first long page of your MP history you neither gave away any points or received any, it's all just for being on line X amount of hours or making posts.

I guess I just don't understand the reason for having them that's all.

Me giving you 10 points or taking them away doesn't really seem worth while, ya know?


----------



## GAP

I am probably like most.....I don't even consider them.

If I have a point to make on a thread, whether I agree or disagree, I will post a comment, or, as in the case of some airhead twits, never go back to that thread again (unless it becomes obvious it's a dogpile for being stupid...)


----------



## kratz

Instead of the previous styled dogpile or worthless +1/-1 posts, the MPs have had a positive effect in reducing those posts. Again in doing so, I do not need to post as often. So anything I have to say is worth less because I do not post lots? Or have never received a positive/or negative MP?

I think the site is working, but questioning the MPs and how they are working is worth some discussion. Keep in mind the site is still working on some of the upgrades. So any suggestions would take time if they are considered.


----------



## Jarnhamar

kratz said:
			
		

> the MPs have had a positive effect in reducing those posts.



How?

MPs are automatic.
You could ding me -20 points for a post and I can make double the amount I lost by posting twice. I can't see how they have effected anything really.

The only way I can see them being indicative of anything is if the ONLY way to get points was through peer assessent.


----------



## kratz

As an example. I see the positive effect in members no longer posting +1, just because they agree. Yes, we all know that form of agreement is no longer acceptable and so refrain from making such posts, but for those who do not follow the custom, their deleted posts cost them -30 when the mods delete their posts as well. So is the MP system having a positive impact? IMO, in a round about way, I think so.

*Edit* For spelling.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Yes but the -30 points from having their post deleted can be made back in 3 hours of being online or  being online for an hour and making a post.

What I'm trying to say is that MPs are given away so much so that loosing some from a trollish post or having a post deleted is meaningless.

If people have stopped posting +1 it's because to do otherwise means they get introduced sooner or later to the warning system (and the ire of the mods) up to and including being banned. I doubt anyone stopped because it meant they lost 15 points.

Because points are so abundantly earned, wether you have 500 or 50'000 it doesn't really reflect anything.
Actually it reflects post quantity, not quality.
I personally feel *if* we have it it should reflect


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Flawed,

You make some good points... just today I was considering dropping the -10 penalty for rating another user. It was instituted to prevent action without thought, but clearly that's not the issue. Out of the thousands of users we have here I can count on one hand those that use the MilPoints system regularly to assess others. That to me is a breakdown in the system, which is supposed to encourage "good" user behaviour and discourage "bad" by allowing the user population to have a strong, consistent voice.

The old rating system burned out of control and I know why, at least in part: it was completely anonymous. I believe a small but very vocal segment of our userbase was able to anonymously tip the scales with a concerted effort. This system holds the assessee and assessor publicly accountable, and predictably the "radicals" are nowhere to be found this time. Unfortunately neither is anyone else.

I hear repeatedly that folks aren't concerned with their MilPoints totals, yet they're not using the tool to assess others. We know from past ratings experiments that the will is out there, so I can only assume that the cost plays a (small?) part in everyone's reluctance to use the system.

Based on what you're saying I _think_ I'm hearing that larger +/- values for rating others might also help make the system more useful. As has been pointed out, the system (and the entire site) is ever changing, in large part due to the ideas and discussions of our users.

kratz is right about the intent of the system, and you're probably right about it's actual effectiveness. As a result, I've dropped the -10 penalty, and increased the assessment value range (see the MilPoints FAQ for details).

One other thing the old system had going for it was ease of use. Would including simple one-click "Give XX MilPoints" and "Deduct XX MilPoints" buttons help people use the system? The current system is 2 steps, but allows you to take a hand in the moderation of the site by putting forward an optional opinion.

We've seen once so far that MilPoints can have an actual value* - I plan to do more like that in time, but there's still a lot to get in order before anything noteworth takes place there.

I'm certainly open to additional suggestions on how to improve it's utility and balance.


Cheers
Mike

* In writing this I realized that due to some confusion about where the gift certs from that contest were to be sent, they were never sent... winners, expect to hear from me to confirm your addresses again on this... everyone else use the system to rate me down!


----------



## armyvern

How do we actually give someone else milpoints?

Is it possible to add a little "+" under their avtar so that we can just click it to add points to them from our own?

 ???


----------



## Good2Golf

A little bit more difficult than that, but on someone's post, click the Milpoints icon on the upper right side of the top of the post, then a dialogue box will open and you can award (for good posts) or take away (for bad posts) -- it costs you a few points, but it may be worth it in your assessment.  iper: 

http://army.ca/milpoints/faq.php


----------



## kratz

While the MilPoints that a member holds is under their name, to add or subtract from that members points you must go to that member's upper right corner. The user system is awkward and not simple to use.

I do not like the idea of a simple +/- like CBC online now has. The CBC version reminds me of the problems MilNet had before. To suggest an improvement place MilPoints in a member's post block in ONE place. When another person clicks on it, there is a split screen showing all of that member's MP history. The top 10% has the current MilPoint review standards for that post (no blind snipping. The remaining MP page is the member's MP history. To aid in the more senior members choice of assigning points vice dogpile. Maybe even a tweak in the points system for judicious use of points.

I agree, right now MilPoints needs three or four locations within MilNet to understand how it works. While there are people who post and depart, those are in the minority to the community. The MP system can improve without changing what it is already achieving.


----------



## armyvern

Eureka. I have it figured out.

Now, that I know how to actually use it ...

I will.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Vern, now tht you've figured it out, I've moved the button, per krat's suggestion.  It's now in your profile block to the left, just below your total. kratz I think I understand your other suggestions and will take a crack at some of those as well.


Cheers
Mike


----------



## GAP

Like Vern said, now that I know how to use it, especially with the drop down menu's you've added, I probably will....thanks


----------



## PMedMoe

I like the drop down menu but you need to add more descriptions.  Right now you have:

Insightful
Informative
Helpful
Neutral
Aggressive
Off topic
Trolling
Spam

What about Misleading or Wrong?  I just deducted points from someone for that very reason.  At the very least, Unhelpful might be good.


----------



## GAP

Question.

If you deduct points from someone....how do they know? Does the total just countdown, or is a PM sent to them? I never know from one moment to another what my count was, so how would I know someone disagreed with me?


----------



## George Wallace

GAP said:
			
		

> Question.
> 
> If you deduct points from someone....how do they know? Does the total just countdown, or is a PM sent to them? I never know from one moment to another what my count was, so how would I know someone disagreed with me?



You can go to the "Information" Tab at the top of the screen and a dropdown menu will show you an option "My MilPoint History" where you can view your MilPoint History as to how many points you are earning.  It also records your "+/-" points such as negative points for DELETED posts, or awards or deductions from other members, noting who awarded/deducted you points and why.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Moe... Misleading has now been added to the list, thanks!

GAP, bot the assessor and assessee are automatically sent an e-mail from the site when you rate another user. The format is pretty basic, but it has the details of the assessment in it. Neither party can see the other's e-mail address, but it's clear who assessed who.


----------



## GAP

Thanks Mike...that clears up a lot


----------



## Jarnhamar

Thanks Mike, looks like a good improvement!

The old system didn't work because it was easy to abuse. If I didn't like you I could just keep dinging you points and you would never now who it's from, quality control.

For the system to work people need to be accountable.  We have that system here where if I don't like what you're saying then I can reduce some points but you'll know it's from me. That works.

What I was saying doesn't work is the fact that
1. You're MP's indicate how much you post and how long you're on line
2. They don't represent the quality of you're posts.

When someone starts racking up 10'000 points for being 'on line' does it really punish someone (for lack of a better word) if they loose 10 20 or 50 points.  I think upping the point lost to 100/-100 will have a noticeable effect but again generating points (basically) automatically in my opinion detracts from that.

I know it's a work in progress though, just brain storming here. 
[While I'm at it I think it's great that members of the forum can (continually) offer feedback and the mods take it as constructive criticism and not just wave their hand at it- thanks guys (and girls).]


Here is my ideal set up for the points system on message forums. (Again just brain storming)

Do away with an actual point amount, when you click on someones name to rate the quality of their post it's either a good point you're giving them or a bad one.
There is a sort of 1 to 10 scale under your name. If X amount of people have given you good 'varrots' then you might have 3 green dots under your name.
If you are consistently making good posts and more people approve of your posts then the XXX amount of good varots you got reflects in the little bar or indicator. Where I have 3 green dots because I'm relatively on ball, you'll have 6 or 7 indicating you've made serious contributions to the forum.
(As it stands now I can have 100 posts and 20000 points, again it's not indicating quality but quantity)

I like this system because it's a peer evaluation system. If I ask a question and someone with 1 green dot gives me a smart ass reply I'm going to think ya whatever noob. But if someone with 7 dots replies I'm going to realize he or she has the approval of most of the board and is well respected by his or her peers.

Likewise you can give someone negative varrots.  If someone just starts here and makes some dumb posts and a number of people ding them for it then all of a sudden they have 2 red dots under their name. Their posts are obviously rubbing people the wrong way.  They keep making bad posts and now their sitting at 5 red dots. Now it's obvious their trolling.  Their reputation is poor and no one is really interested in their posts.

If they manage to smarten up and start making helpful contributions then members will give them positive points and now their out of the red and slowly sliding into the green.

It's completely peer assessment.
Also if someone who is red due to negative points from trolling tries to give me a negative point it just comes out as neutral. (0 value) Their comment gets recorded BUT since their in the red, they don't cause the person to drop. (this stops people from just trying to be spiteful). 

This rewards someone for making quality posts and punishes people for making bad ones.
The reward/punishment is in terms of forum reputation. The points purely reflect the quality of posts made by the member.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Nice system, I like it... Maybe one implementation of that would be to retain the score we have today, but have an indicator below your score that is based solely on the feedback of others (as you suggested above). That way someone with 10,000 MP could still have 2 red dots (or equivalent), and someone with 100 points could in theory have many green dots. Having both a high score and a good rating means you've been here a while and made solid contributions.

Anyway, I like the premise and I'll think about how we might implement it... as always, discussion from the membersip is welcome!


Cheers
Mike


----------



## kratz

MilPoints (MPs) have been around for a year now. So far there has been one contest using them. 

After a year, how is everyone finding the system? Are there enough checks and balances to make MPs useful? Are most people ignoring MPs?


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

kratz, having looked through the logs, I can say that a handful of people are using the system. However that handful seems to be growing daily, so we're moving in the right direction. People are definitely using it as an active/immediate feedback system. Is it working? Hard to say, really. I'm sure the positive reinforcement is, but you never know how willing people will be to criticism.

Might be time for another MilPoints contest... 

I *do* have bigger plans for the system, but other things (like moving!) have made my to do list even longer than normal. I will get to these things though!


----------



## Greymatters

I find it leads to curiosity; like when Im reading a post by a new member whose points read in the negatives, Im curious as to what they said to get them there.  It doesnt seem to make much difference for those with numerous or high post counts, but certainly brings to attention new members who tend to be argumentative, or who say unpopular things...

Likely not the purpose of the system, but thats how it is working...


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

As a very simple first step, I've added a tooltip which shows how many points a user has "earned" in the last week. This total _only_ includes MilPoints awarded or deducted by other users, not points earned by online time, posts, etc.

To see it in action, simply hover over a users MilPoints total. If a tooltip appears, they have been rated this week; if it doesn't, they haven't drawn enough attention to themselves. 

For a good example of how this works, hover over Eye In The Sky's total here:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/88294/post-873042.html#msg873042


Cheers
Mike


----------



## Greymatters

Trying out the last feature you mentioned, I noticed this line in my points list:

Congratulations! You were Earner #4 for 2009-08-30!

Im not sure what I did - what did I earn?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

:dileas:.....15 more points.... :dileas:


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Greymatters, you earned the 4th most MilPoints on August 30th, and got a little bonus as a result. 

The top 5 earners each day get a small boost for being particularly active on the site that day.


----------



## Journeyman

GAP said:
			
		

> If you deduct points from someone....how do they know?


In your civie email, you get something like this:



> *Milnet.ca: Journeyman thought Bruce Monkhouse was Aggressive* (-150 MP)‏
> From:  Apache (apache@mail.army.ca)
> You may not know this sender.
> Mark as safe|Mark as junk
> Sent: September 23, 2009 2:51:44 PM
> To:  Milnet@Milnet.ca
> 
> Subject: Re: Introducing MilPoints Link:
> http://forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/79358/post-877140.html#msg877140
> Amount: -150 MilPoints
> Notes: For bragging about earning another 15 MilPoints....when there are kids in poor countries with no MilPoints!!
> 
> For more information, please see the MilPoints FAQ: http://Army.ca/milpoints/faq.php



(Bruce can afford the hit.....as a... teaching point, ya, that's it   ;D  )


----------



## Eye In The Sky

hahahahahahahahahaha!


----------



## Greymatters

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Greymatters, you earned the 4th most MilPoints on August 30th, and got a little bonus as a result.
> 
> The top 5 earners each day get a small boost for being particularly active on the site that day.



Ah, I see... wouldn't $cash$ rewards work better as an incentive?  ;D


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Heheh, they would indeed. Maybe I'll give MipPoints a cash value... 10,000,000 per penny seems like it fits the budget.


----------



## Greymatters

Tell you what, I'll sponsor your reward system - The first person to get to 10,000,000 MilPoints, I'll volunteer a cash $10.00 reward     

Mind you, that will only be for the first person to do it - wouldn't want to pay out to a stampede of contenders all getting 10,000,000 MilPoints at once...


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Tell you what, I'll sponsor your reward system - The first person to get to 10,000,000 MilPoints, I'll volunteer a cash $10.00 reward
> 
> Mind you, that will only be for the first person to do it - wouldn't want to pay out to a stampede of contenders all getting 10,000,000 MilPoints at once...



Make sure you send Mike his cheque now...... >


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Journeyman said:
			
		

> (Bruce can afford the hit.....as a... teaching point, ya, that's it   ;D  )



Hmmmmmm,   well I now know that I can _GIVE_  10,000,000 points.............. :-*


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

All I can say is, thank god we don't work at the Mint.


----------



## kratz

Mike, didn't you know MilPoints were like fool's  gold?


----------



## Vets Dottir

Hi,

I just found the Milpoints thing by clicking on the MP beside my name to see what it was all about ... and discovered the ratings etc. I see 4 negatives by my name. Also one nice comment  ... thank you commenter for the nice thing you said 

I was concerned about the negatives??? I see I did 4 no-no's so far it looks like and would like to say I'm sorry as I slowly learn Armcy.ca ettitquette/rules etc  

How does Army/ca use the MP's? Like a ratings and if ratings are too frequent or farly negative the person gets banned? Just wondering and checking in here 

Thanks.


----------



## AndyRad

if you look here:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/79358.0.html

all the answers you need


----------



## Vets Dottir

Thank you


----------



## mellian

I just noticed I got penalized for creating a thread that got deleted the other day. I do not remember creating any threads then, so hard to tell what I did wrong.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

It may be a thread that was created long ago, and deleted the other day.

Unfortunately, as is the nature of deleted things, we can't tell now which specific thread it was.

Your MilPoints balance seems to be doing OK despite the setback. 


Cheers
Mike


----------



## Fishbone Jones

It happens occasionally when the janitor comes in and sorts through all the duplicate posts, redundant threads and useless crap that clutters the boards. If you'd done something drastically against the guidelines, you'd have been warned. Don't worry about it, the count really doesn't mean anything, and no one will think any less.....or more of you for it.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## mellian

Is there a way per chance to modify ones milpoint after giving some? I was a bit to trigger happy on a slow loading site and gave positive amount instead of negative.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Nope, just dock me 200 points and the result will be the same...........[ and I totally agree with your assessment of my post]

I tried docking myself but alas......


----------



## mariomike

Sort of like the 25 cent office Swear Jar. Just drop a couple of bucks in, and you should be good for the day. Or, about 15 minutes.


----------



## mellian

I will have to wait until tomorrow, and the next because I can only give or dock max of 100. 

I figured I would stop further derailing in response and just give negative MPs.


----------



## mariomike

mellian said:
			
		

> I will have to wait until tomorrow, and the next because I can only give or dock max of 100.
> I figured I would stop further derailing in response and just give negative MPs.



As long as you promise to read my posts, Mellian. Hate to think I am wearing my fingers down to the nubs for nothing.
I figure Milpoints are sort of like those 1-800 "How's my driving" stickers you see on the back of trucks.  
Mine says, "Am I driving too slow?"


----------



## mellian

mariomike said:
			
		

> As long as you promise to read my posts, Mellian. Hate to think I am wearing my fingers down to the nubs for nothing.
> I figure Milpoints are sort of like those 1-800 "How's my driving" stickers you see on the back of trucks.
> Mine says, "Am I driving too slow?"



Reputation point systems are good for that, instead of always bothering the moderators about something.


----------



## Jarnhamar

mellian said:
			
		

> I will have to wait until tomorrow, and the next because I can only give or dock max of 100.
> 
> I figured I would stop further derailing in response and just give negative MPs.



Until milpoints aren't given out for being online or making posts they will remain ineffective as a means of gauging one's reputation or quality of posts.


----------



## mellian

I see more as a representation of their overall contribution to the message board and sign of them generally keeping to the rules. Even if one does not post much and gets most milpoints from how much time they spent, it is a good chance they spent that time reading and peacefully lurking.


----------



## JBoyd

When you get someone posting in threads such as the Word Association thread, they can obtain a fair bit of milpoints for one word posts that do not really give or take anything from the site.

I tend to agree with Flawed Design, while milpoints are being awarded for being online and making posts it does not really convey the quality of someone's posts, behaviour, or overall reputation on the site. Although, when someone has a negative milpoints number you can pretty much tell what the quality of their posts and overall behaviour are.

I think it would be a much better system if we could only gain points by having them awarded by our peers.


----------



## mellian

JBoyd said:
			
		

> I think it would be a much better system if we could only gain points by having them awarded by our peers.



And then good chunk of us will end up in the negative if one minuses out the post/thread/time gains from our present milpoint scores.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

mellian, your view of the MilPoints system is bang on. The intent was to reward "good behaviour," whether that's reading and searching, contributing to the site content or engaging in a civil discussion. It's not supposed to be a two dimensional metric that shows only how others subjectively view the user... there's an objective component related to their interaction with the site.

Also pertinent, is that posts into Radio Chatter (such as the Word Association thread) don't earn you MilPoints... but they might earn you a loss if they're deleted or deemed negative by another user.  That was done for the very reason stated above, people could otherwise pad their total quite easily.

I'm not suggesting it's a perfect system by any stretch, but I think it's doing all I can ask of it for the moment.


----------



## JBoyd

Well it is good to know that posts within Radio Chatter are not padding milpoints totals. Knowing this now my view is slightly different.


----------



## Bass ackwards

I find that keeping an eye on the _ratio_ of milpoints to posts is a good way to know if I'm "talkin' when I shoulda been listenin'" (like now  )

All the same, I guess losing 300 milpoints is still better than gaining a black eye...

EDIT:
On second reading of this, I thought I should qualify my remarks above.
While I did serve -way back in the days of FN rifles (manly weapons) and 64 pattern webbing (really sucked)- I am in _no_ way shape or form, a member of the "been there done that" crowd. Perhaps that ratio of milpoints to posts might translate into 'what I don't know/want to know' versus 'what I have to contribute'.  
That is why I at least _try_ to keep my post count down (rum is not helpful in this endeavour) and why I read here constantly. This site is a real treasure trove of information.

Those who actually _have_ been there and done that, naturally should be posting more.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Bass ackwards said:
			
		

> I find that keeping an eye on the _ratio_ of milpoints to posts is a good way to know if I'm "talkin' when I shoulda been listenin'" (like now  )



I'm not so sure it's really indicative of anything.

You for example have a little more milpoints than me.   You-9610.  Myself 9120.   You have 76 posts and myself 3310.   
Those 9600 points in 76 posts could be contributed to extremely positive feedback from users, however (though I'm not saying you don't deserve it), in about 8 to10 pages of your recorded milpoints history I think I saw to actual feedback cookies from users.
I just get confused easily.

I'm of the mind that two separate systems might actually win us the noble peace prize or something.

Milpoints to record a members contribution to the forum in terms of time online & post quantity and a reputation system.  
Something as simple as a thumbs up or thumbs down akin to an ebay trader rating. I see a post of yours I like, thumbs up. I don't like it, thumbs down.


----------



## Michael OLeary

We did actually try a version of the system that was based solely on votes for and against by other users.  Unfortunately, a disgruntled bad of misfits decided to coordinate their efforts to abuse the system and it quickly became a mockery of its own intent.  Sadly, any such system depending solely upon the honest participation of the multitude is doomed to fail at the hands of the dishonest few.


----------



## Bass ackwards

FD, folks like you are the reason why I added the supplement to my post. 
You've been on ops. I haven't. 
I intended my post to be a (hopefully) subtle hint to the up-and-coming crowd that it's better to read much and post little. 
Personally, I agree with your post -and you're right: I've gained points only twice from member feedback. Compared to an honest-to-God veteran, it's unfair that I should have more points for reading than someone like you should have for sharing your experiences. 
But, like Mike Bobbitt and (just now) Michael O'Leary said: it's what we have to work with.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Bass ackwards said:
			
		

> FD, folks like you are the reason why I added the supplement to my post.
> You've been on ops. I haven't.
> I intended my post to be a (hopefully) subtle hint to the up-and-coming crowd that it's better to read much and post little.
> Personally, I agree with your post -and you're right: I've gained points only twice from member feedback. Compared to an honest-to-God veteran, it's unfair that I should have more points for reading than someone like you should have for sharing your experiences.



I don't think being on ops is a factor brother. More often than not I +rep people for being sarcastic or putting a shit disturber in their place. I just think the feedback from users would mean more if it wasn't mixed.  I don't think it should be a reflection of someones experience but rather what they contribute to the community. Maybe I'm inking about it too much.

Michael, I remember that.  Some of us senior members got really upset because some people went around neg-repping us. We said "Hey I don't give a damn about my rep!" but I remember people were still pretty pissed.

IMO it could have been handled easily. If I for example started finding all your posts and neg reping you just to be a prick that's trolling and bannable.


----------



## Blackadder1916

Has there been a change in how the history of posts assessed are recorded or is there a glitch in the system?

I checked my MilPoints history today and noticed that there is no record of recent ratings I made of other posts.  It's been a while since I looked at my MilPoints history, but previously assessments made had been recorded and 10 milpoints deducted for each rating.  I checked the history of one of those whom I rated yesterday and it is there http://army.ca/milpoints/?user=37224 - so I wasn't hallucinating that I had rated someone.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

There was a change a while back... MilPoints are no longer deducted when you assess someone else. It just didn't make sense to levy a fine for having an opinion.


----------



## Blackadder1916

Thanks.  I wouldn't have thought more about it except it still states on the MilPoints FAQ


> . . . More importantly, users can spend 10 MilPoints to "assess" another user based on their posts, rewarding or docking them up to  . . .


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Thanks... fixed!


----------



## Edward Campbell

I had occasion to use the _award/deduct_ function today and, out of curiosity, I looked at my own MilPoints. I was impressed (I guess that's the right word) at how many MilPoints I've 'earned' just because I leave my browser open for most of the day with Army.ca open in  one of the tabs.

I understand that awarding points for being here was designed to reward those who read before they post, and that's a good thing. But I wonder if 20 points for an hour of 'being here' is really fair.

I would not be at all unhappy if the 'reward' for reading and posting was the same: 10 MilPoints.

:2c:


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

To keep getting those Milpoints you have had to "refresh" something, either changing threads, etc., or simply refreshing every 30 minutes.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Thanks Bruce. And Edward, I understand where you're coming from. 10 points to post, 20 to lurk might be sending the wrong message.

My motivation was that 10 points for a standard post can be augmented (or negated) by others rating that post, so it's possible to earn much more if your post is valued by the community. If it's not... well, 10 may be an accurate representation of it's worth.


----------



## navymich

Are the daily top 5 still receiving bonus milpoints each day?  Just curious.  And Mike, is it possible to add a section to the MP statistic page that says who the top earners were for the previous day, something that automatically updates each day like the current ones do?


----------



## Poseidon

I like this MilPoints system!


----------



## aesop081

Poseidon said:
			
		

> I like this MilPoints system!



Here's 300, just for enthusiasm !


----------



## MKos

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Here's 300, just for enthusiasm !



HAHA CDN Aviator! It's like Christmas


----------



## TN2IC

I like this system now. Instead of using a post, or PM for thanking someone or to agree with. I can just use the milpoints, and fire the message from there to them.


----------



## sharki9876

Hi, good morning/evening Canada.

Whenever I try to access someone's milpoints history by clicking on the little "MP" picture to the left of their post, it doesn't show me any.
This poses a major inconvenience for me when I want to snoop on people that have negative MP. This is also the case for anyone that's banned (although that would make more sense).


Thanks,
Philip


----------



## dangerboy

Strange it is working for me, I was able to see yours no problem.


----------



## jwtg

Can you not see ANYBODY'S milpoints history?  Or just some people?

How far back does milpoint history go?  I often can't see whichever juicy post earned someone a lot of negative points, but I can usually see their most recent history...


----------



## sharki9876

Most people I can see their points, but a few of them I can't. Also, I can't see them for banned people if I'm curious about what kind of trouble they got into.

Oh well.


----------



## cryco

I admit, I've been curious about some people's bans, especially some people that have lots of posts and were very active.


----------



## sharki9876

Thank you


----------



## sharki9876

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I was referred here.

2 questions:
How come I cannot see the milpoints history on some profiles? It simply comes up blank, and seems totally random.

If someone is banned, is it possible to see their milpoints?


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

MilPoints history gets archived after 30 days to help performance on the server. All the old records are still retained, just not kept in the working table, so queries run faster. Ultimately it's poor database design (mine) and a quick and dirty fix rather than committing the time to proper table indexing.


----------



## sharki9876

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> MilPoints history gets archived after 30 days to help performance on the server. All the old records are still retained, just not kept in the working table, so queries run faster. Ultimately it's poor database design (mine) and a quick and dirty fix rather than committing the time to proper table indexing.



Sounds like you've got a lot on your hands.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Good-day Army.ca Folks,

I’d like to take some time to address a concerning trend I’ve noted that cycles, but lately has been making a comeback again, little by little. 

In keeping with the updated goal of quality tone and content on the site since the staff turnover, DS tries hard to maintain a forum set apart from others—A site where we try our best to consistently maintain an environment that fosters factual, intelligent dialogue on a variety of subjects, and the prevention/monitoring of downward-spiralling topics, which could possibly derail into volatile exchanges. We are always aiming to improve and we encourage constructive feedback from new and old users alike. 

That being said, in order for all users to get the most out of their experience here, it’s worth posting a reminder of the positive and negative uses of the milpoint system. 

At its most basic level, milpoints are a great way to show appreciation for the tone and/or content of a particular post. Everyone likes receiving milpoints, especially when a user has taken the time to compose their thoughts clearly, and/or has done a lot of research and supplied sources to further a conversation.

Alternatively, milpoints can also be used to negatively critique a post using the options available in the menu. (Or if none can categorize the cause for the negative critique specifically, then selecting ‘neutral’ and leaving a short comment with an explanation will suffice also.)

To keep things simple, the reasons for using negative milpoints can be for showing general disapproval of content, or for steering a poster in the right direction when they’ve ignored and/or failed to recognize comments directed towards them in relation to behaviour on the boards. There are, of course, other reasons also. But whatever the reason, DS tries to ensure that the milpoint system isn’t being abused and its intended purpose remains in tact...

...Which brings me to the point of this post. 

_Milpoints should never be used as a form of passive-aggression. _ That’s not what they were implemented for and it erodes the site experience of the users involved. 

An example of milpoint passive-aggression? 

Scenario 1)-A user incurs negative milpoints for whatever reason

-The user who issues the negative milpoints does so in the spirit of constructive criticism, and leaves a short comment indicating their disapproval of the post

-The user who was dinged then goes and finds a post from the user who dinged them, which they decide they don’t like for whatever reason, and does the same in return.

Scenario 2)-A user issues negative milpoints and in addition to the deduction leaves a comment attacking the individual personally, rather than constructively criticizing the post or giving a brief explanation for the negative deduction.

Thankfully, scenario 2 doesn’t happen often, but it has and staff usually then has to manage a complaint regarding the issue.

Unfortunately, I’ve noticed scenario 1 occurring more often recently, so let’s think about our milpoint usage as much as we do our posts. 

It’s understandable that users will, at some point, become invested in the topics they’re participating in, and sometimes emotions can overwhelm. But this is why staff is dedicated to maintaining an atmosphere where policies are adhered to, and where users are encouraged to participate while following Army.ca’s guidelines. 

Milpoints are a fun boost for morale around the site, and they can also serve as a useful tool when administered appropriately. Let’s keep that in mind. 

Thank you


----------

