# Reserve Class A and medical care



## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

Can anyone tell me what is the CFMS policy concerning the provision of civilian medical information to the military for a SDA injury?

Is there any regulation which states that one must provide it?


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## old medic (27 Nov 2006)

Reserve or Regular?
Was it before or after you joined?
Was it on or off duty?


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

Reserve, while on duty in Bosnia. It was not there before I joined.



			
				old medic said:
			
		

> Reserve or Regular?
> Was it before or after you joined?
> Was it on or off duty?


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## old medic (27 Nov 2006)

On class C service then... 
Did CFMS provide the referal, and are they paying the bills?
You'll want everything you can on your file then. 

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/SUB.CFM?source=forces/disa



> Disability Pensions
> 
> You may be eligible for disability pension benefits if you now have, or later develop, a permanent disability resulting from an injury or disease that:
> 
> ...



Are you having trouble getting a civilian office to forward a file?


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

My problem is with CFMS, they will not treat me unless, while being on Class A, I provide civilian medical information, but then they do not want to pay the bills either. My condition is indicated in my military medical file but they wont do anything about it. I was on Class C back then. I am already pensioned by VAC, but the CF does not want anything to do about it.

Is there any obligation to provide civilian medical file?



			
				old medic said:
			
		

> On class C service then...
> Did CFMS provide the referal, and are they paying the bills?
> You'll want everything you can on your file then.
> 
> ...


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## George Wallace (27 Nov 2006)

Let's stop right here and clear up something first.  What are you asking?  You are not asking anything about RESERVE CLASS A Service and Medical Care, so why do you have that TITLE?  

For the best of my knowledge, there is no Medical, nor Dental, benefits for CLASS A.

What should the title of this Topic really be?


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

I guess it should be Reserve Class A - Civilian Medical File.

There is medical benifits for Class A under certain conditions.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Let's stop right here and clear up something first.  What are you asking?  You are not asking anything about RESERVE CLASS A Service and Medical Care, so why do you have that TITLE?
> 
> For the best of my knowledge, there is no Medical, nor Dental, benefits for CLASS A.
> 
> What should the title of this Topic really be?


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## Petard (27 Nov 2006)

I dunno George, I think I know where this fellah's coming from
Someone I know has returned from theatre (TSE) this past summer and is now back on class A, they're getting next to squat for medical assistance, and they need it but are getting resistance because they're "only" on class A now.
So...maybe the title is apropos?


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## old medic (27 Nov 2006)

schart,

Even if you are already drawing a VAC pension, the best thing you could do is ask to have those 
documents put on your file. Keep copies of everything for your own file at home. 

If VAC ever reviews the pension, it will be to your benefit.

    (example:  http://198.103.134.2/providers/sub.cfm?source=pro_research/gulfwarfilereview )

However, I'm still not sure what your asking in your first post. Do you want them on and your running
into resistance, or are you hinting that you don't want them on the file?



> they will not treat me unless, while being on Class A, I provide civilian medical information



This would be correct. The system should not provide treatment if they never receive a report or update 
on that treatment.


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

My pension is based on my civilian information. They never, ever wanted to treat me in the past so I got help myself.
When I ask them if they will pay for my medical treatments etc, they say no! They will not even pay my visit to the civilian doctor to discuss the military consent form sent to my civilian doctor by the Med C SQFT. I will not provide them any info if they do not pay and in any case is there any regulation which says that I have to provide the information? The CF 98 guidelines indicates that there "may" be sharing of information. The MO never provided my civilian doctor my diagnosis they made and the follow up that was required back in 2003 and 2005. 

The CFMS wants everthing but does not give out anything. I have a 5/5 disability and I am not even being compensated by the CF. When you become sick in the reg force, Class C or B, you are compensated but when you are in Class A and your injury was because of an operational theater your have nothing.

The worst in all of this is that the MO gave me a G6O6 category with only 10% of the information I gave him. Then when I was with the MO and Sgt Clinic, the Sgt told the MO in front of me that they would change the category because I would be paid if I stayed with a G6O6.







			
				old medic said:
			
		

> schart,
> 
> Even if you are already drawing a VAC pension, the best thing you could do is ask to have those
> documents put on your file. Keep copies of everything for your own file at home.
> ...


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## geo (27 Nov 2006)

Schart,

Have you made any attempt to get satisfaction by going thru "the centre"

If you are entitled to something, anything, they have a tendency of cutting to the chase and going to your area and getting the ball rolling.

You mention SQFT and you mention Comms Reserve....... so which are ya?
Comms in Quebec do not answer to SQFT

I am at the SQFT office that received and deals with reserve grievances and injury issues.  People injured on class C should not be a problem - VS those injuries suffered while on class A.

Please specify, maybe I can do something or suggest a couple of things

I need some forinstances though.......


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## George Wallace (27 Nov 2006)

As old medic said, keep copies for your records.  The MO and the Medics have no obligation to do any of this for you, but you are permitted to get copies.  You can request a copy of your Med File through the Freedom of Information Act, through an Advocate from the Legion (you have to sign a document permitting them to copy your files), or by going in yourself and copying it (Again you will have to sign a document permitting your access to the file.).  

These copies should help you with your future claims through DVA, or perhaps with your own Doctor.


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

Hi, Thanks for your concern. I know that Comms Res and SQFT does not match but since we are in the Montreal area, 712 Comm Sqn, we deal with SQFT for our medical (41 CF SVC C). The Centre did not help at all.  You may have seen my grievance go by. I was on Class C while I was injured, while it is not a physical injury but the problem is that I am now on Class A.




			
				geo said:
			
		

> Schart,
> 
> Have you made any attempt to get satisfaction by going thru "the centre"
> 
> ...


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

I do have a very recent copy of my med file. This is where I learned that the MO had diagnosed me with a condition he had not told me. This is where I also found out that there was a problem with a blood test, were action was required. They never told me about that. 

I've been off work for over 13 months and with a VAC pension but a perfect medical category. The MO has all the info in my med file to see that there is something very wrong but they do not want to acknowledge it.




			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> As old medic said, keep copies for your records.  The MO and the Medics have no obligation to do any of this for you, but you are permitted to get copies.  You can request a copy of your Med File through the Freedom of Information Act, through an Advocate from the Legion (you have to sign a document permitting them to copy your files), or by going in yourself and copying it (Again you will have to sign a document permitting your access to the file.).
> 
> These copies should help you with your future claims through DVA, or perhaps with your own Doctor.


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## Nemo888 (27 Nov 2006)

Get photocopies of everything they have and keep them someplace safe, that is your legal right. Things often conveniently get lost.
Good luck to you though. I also suggest you contact the ombudsman.

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/mediaRoom/newsReleases/2006/06-06_e.asp#Investigation

Be tenacious and tactful, you can break them down eventually. They are hoping you will just go away, if they know you won't you may get somewhere.


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

The Ombudsman can't help since I have a grievance in progress. Thanks for your concern. I only want what I deserve to get, no more and certainly no less.



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Get photocopies of everything they have and keep them someplace safe, that is your legal right. Things often conveniently get lost.
> Good luck to you though. I also suggest you contact the ombudsman.
> 
> http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/mediaRoom/newsReleases/2006/06-06_e.asp#Investigation
> ...


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## geo (27 Nov 2006)

Schart,

I deal with reservist grievances & injury compensation claims for troops that belong to SQFT only.  Do not see grievances that deal with Comms Res, Nav Res, Med Res and Air Res.... sigh.... (business is actualy slow)

I presume you submitted grievance to 712 CO and he has acknowledger receipt and claimed that he is not the IA and has sent the grievance to 71 Comm group CO and he has acknowledger receipt and claimed that he is not the IA and has sent the grievance to Comm res HQ and Comms CO has acknowledger receipt and claimed that he is not the IA and has sent the grievance to Landforces HQ or Cdn Expeditionary HQ or CDS as the IA...............  

excluding the CDS & the grievance authority, the IA has an obligation to give you prompt attention.  Come back to you with an answer within 60 days of his acknowledging the grievance.... else he must ask for reasonnable extensions & provide you with a basic Sitrep as the grievance works its way thru the system... at any time in this process you can deny the extension request and the grievance will be passed on to the next level.... which might be the CDS / grievance authority... where there is no time limit .......

At the very end, there is always the possibility of going to your MP (hey, you're a reservist), make him work for his keep.... ELSE, you can always resort to going to the press.... which is something that I would only recommend as a very last resort.


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## schart28 (27 Nov 2006)

Actually the IA is the DGHS. The IA has not given any response yet. Its been over four months and no response from the IA, not even an acknowledgement receipt from his part. The only thing I know is that JAG is involved. I am not sure if that's good or not. Thanks for the grievance process information. Its helpfull and compliments the grievance manual. The MP can't do anything since there is a grievance in the works.

I guess the press would be the last resort. I am not sure where you live but we, montreal area, have been having a few soldiers and veterans in the press lately. In one case, the PM got involved when this came up in a Parliament session.



			
				geo said:
			
		

> Schart,
> 
> Deal with reservist grievances & injury compensation claims for troops that belong to SQFT only.  Do not see grievances that deal with Comms Res, Nav Res, Med Res and Air Res.... sigh.... (business is actualy slow)
> 
> ...


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## geo (27 Nov 2006)

DGHS - health services?......  how are they the IA?
doesn't make sense cause you did not work for them, you do not belong to them.  Health services (or lack thereof) may come into play but, they should not be the IA.


The IA must acknowledge receipt.
Ask your Adjt  to follow up with the Initial authority... tell em you are entitled to an acknowledgement - and want to ensure the "timer" gets set properly.

AJAG would be involved if they feel they have to consult regulations to ensure you get everything you are entitled to.... nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't be overly concerned about it.

Get the OR to follow up with your IA - Pronto!


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## captainj (12 Dec 2006)

Geo

I too am a little confused. As a guy who is a Reservist and was severly injured while on tour VAC have been nothing but first class. In point of fact better than first class. As I understand it if the "injury" occurred while in theatre the CF is on the hook in any case. I must confess I am on contract and not on Class A service. However I know a few chaps who are on Class A and VAC and the CF are looking after them. Heck even if the CF will not look after him VAC will so long as the treatment is in relation to the pensionable issue. This sounds like a leadership issue to me someone needs to assist Schart  and hold the system accountable. Shart email me if you want as I am a bit of a para legal re VAC and know a couple of people who may assist.............................

Captain J


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## schart28 (12 Dec 2006)

It took me one year to get VAC to look after me. Since I am still in the forces, VAC can't step on the foot of the CF. What got me in VAC - Ste Anne, is the fact that as Class A, I am not considered active. For VAC is you are not active then they can treat you. They also can treat military personel but they have to be refered by DND.

Even as you say..."the CF are on the hook in any case"..well its not that case.

Geo, DGHS is the IA, as per the grievance manual.


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## the 48th regulator (12 Dec 2006)

schart28 said:
			
		

> It took me one year to get VAC to look after me. Since I am still in the forces, VAC can't step on the foot of the CF. What got me in VAC - Ste Anne, is the fact that as Class A, I am not considered active. For VAC is you are not active then they can treat you. They also can treat military personel but they have to be refered by DND.
> 
> Even as you say..."the CF are on the hook in any case"..well its not that case.
> 
> Geo, DGHS is the IA, as per the grievance manual.



WRONG, WRONG, ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Stop spreading wrong information.  They can too step on anyone they want, and use their power to do so.  I know as I have had it done for me.  While I served, on Class A, and I was not referred to them by DND.  They approached me, and went after all documentation that DND held.

dileas

tess


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Dec 2006)

While not severely injured, I do have a claimable condition. Filed my claim with VAC, six months later, I had my equipment and monthly cheque.........and still on Cl A as we speak. VAC also found my med docs that I had been after for ten years and the CF constantly said no longer existed.


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## geo (12 Dec 2006)

recceguy said:
			
		

> While not severely injured, I do have a claimable condition. Filed my claim with VAC, six months later, I had my equipment and monthly cheque.........and still on Cl A as we speak. VAC also found my med docs that I had been after for ten years and the CF constantly said no longer existed.



Another point... IF someone in the CF claims that protected material (Medical) has been lost, ask them about the Police investigation that was conducted.  We had one instance where medical services pulled the "lost" bit on us - only to come up with the records 48 hrs after we mentioned the topic of MP investigation.


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## schart28 (12 Dec 2006)

Good point. I actually asked that CF H SVCs GP Privacy O be made aware and that he looks into that disappearing information.
I'll send them a nice letter today. Actually in the MSI CF 2000-002 it also indicates to inform the SSO HSI when there is a security breache.


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## geo (12 Dec 2006)

Schart,
you really should contact "the Centre" 1-800-883-6094
talk to them.  There is no valid reason for your unit to leave you high & dry on a matter of an injury that was obtained while "in service" & "for the service".  The Centre has contacts at every level and are above the unit, Group, Command level.  They can and do cut to the chase and see that things get going - with all due haste... before the redress of grievance thing kicks in... and they will give you some answers - regardless of good or bad.

PM me when you contact them & let me know what they dig-up


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## schart28 (17 Dec 2006)

schart28 said:
			
		

> Good point. I actually asked that CF H SVCs GP Privacy O be made aware and that he looks into that disappearing information.
> I'll send them a nice letter today. Actually in the MSI CF 2000-002 it also indicates to inform the SSO HSI when there is a security breach.


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## schart28 (5 Feb 2007)

just wanted to give you all of who provided advice with my battle with the CFMS. I have won so far. I now have the proper medical category G5O5(T) and finally the CF will medically take care of me.  It only took 16 years, a grievance, medical complaint but its now rolling.

The worst part in all of this is that they finally acknowledge that my civilian medical records were not required, but previously saying different and would not treat me because I would not provide them.


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## the 48th regulator (5 Feb 2007)

Right on Brother!

It was obviously a long hard batttle that you deserve to enjoy the victory.

Congrats

dileas

tess


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## Petard (10 Feb 2007)

Petard said:
			
		

> I dunno George, I think I know where this fellah's coming from
> Someone I know has returned from theatre (TSE) this past summer and is now back on class A, they're getting next to squat for medical assistance, and they need it but are getting resistance because they're "only" on class A now.


Just a quick update to this bit I threw out there, the person I mentioned "getting squat" has since begun getting treatment through military medical services, and is still on class A.
The wheels may turn slow sometimes, but other times they need a bit of a nudge.


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## schart28 (10 Feb 2007)

May I ask from which region he is?  Was he asked to provide his civilian medical information? Did he provide it?


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## Petard (10 Feb 2007)

The Maritimes
Far as I know the person did not have to give any civilian medical records since the problem they are dealing with occurred while deployed, the health care services involved just needed a reminder of this, and the member needed to be encouraged too to not just give up (the nudge).
The point I had been making is that reservists should continue to pursue help for something that has occurred while on tour, just because they subsequently return to class A service does not mean the obligation to them stops.


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## schart28 (10 Feb 2007)

I'll be solving this problem very soon. I have asked in my grievance to get a letter stating that reserve who are sick consequently to an SDA mission are entitled to me treated even if they are on Class A.

Hope fully this letter will come from either Gen Hiller, Commodore Kavanagh or BGen Jeager (CF Surg).

Once I get this, I will propagate this info everywhere I can.


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## geo (10 Feb 2007)

Shart,
The regulations are, in actual fact, quite clear on this matter.  The CF has an obligation to the member.  Unfortunately, in your case, for some reason or another, someone dropped the puck as you transited back to civy/class A service from your operational / class C service.
Within LFQA I have seen several reservists getting what you have been fighting so hard to get... it is possible that, being part of 71 Comms Gp instead of SQFT, the lines of communication got a little fuzzy.  Now that Comms Res is shutting down and returning to the mainstream army, these little boondoggles might be a thing of the past.....

As discussed earlier, keep me apraised of your progress - how you are dealt with is very pertinent to what I am doing right now - and I see no reason to reinvent the wheel - once your problem has been settled.

CHIMO!


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