# 28 Oct 06: Day of Protest Against the CF (& Canadian war crimes against an occupied people)



## zipperhead_cop (19 Sep 2006)

I came across this "nugget" of hippy tripe:

Saturday October 28, 5th anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan, has been declared a national Day of Protest by the Canadian Peace Alliance, Canadian Labour Congress, Canadian Islamic Congress and others calling for an immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan and an end to the occupation.

It was announced today that Canada is stepping up its aggression by sending 450 more troops and a squadron of tanks to Afghanistan. Poland recently responded to NATO’s appeal for increased firepower by saying it would send 1,000 soldiers.

Canadian soldiers are being sent to Afghanistan as aggressors and occupiers. The tanks are said to be for shock action and to make killing from a long distance easier. Retired General Lewis McKenzie has been quoted as saying “It’s sort of nice to be able to stand back and turn to the tanker and say, "Take that house out’” rather than have soldiers themselves to inside to "clear out the enemy". This open talk of war crimes against an occupied people is not acceptable.

Not a few Canadian soldiers are being killed, some by U.S. forces. What noble purpose are these Canadians dying for? Meanwhile the recruitment campaign is being stepped up with new ads, relaxed fitness standards and the use of monetary inducements to get the youth to join the military.

This summer Canadians rose up to denounce Stephen Harper for calling the U.S.-Israeli war crimes against Lebanon and the Lebanese people “a measured response”. Let us do the same to show that “Canada’s war in Afghanistan” is not our war, no matter how much the Prime Minister, generals and a compliant media try to sell it that way, while in Parliament there is no rational discourse to reflect what Canadians think and want done in their name.

Let us go all out to make the October 28 Day of Protest a true reflection of Canadians’ sentiment against war and occupation and specifically for immediate withdrawal from U.S./NATO’s war of aggression in Afghanistan.

Everyone is welcome to attend this Tuesday’s meeting in the CAW Student Centre at 7 pm. to begin the work of organizing for a successful Windsor action with broad community participation.

Anyone else heard about October 28th?  I wish that these clowns would let someone who actually knows what is going on speak, although I realize that it would be an act in futility.
Rest assured, the board that it was posted on go a solid flaming from me, but it will likely be good info down the black hole of pacifist socialism.   :threat:


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## HItorMiss (19 Sep 2006)

Hmmmm October 28th in Windor eh....

Sounds like a road trip....


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## George Wallace (19 Sep 2006)

http://www.cfra.com/red-fridays/index.asp?id=8

News Talk Radio 580 CFRA is proud to support the grassroots effort brought to Petawawa by the wives of two men serving in the Canadian Forces. The concept of wearing something red - whether a red shirt, jacket, cap, bandana or whatever - every Friday is meant to let the soldiers and their spouses and children know they are not alone. 

We appreciate the sacrifices they are making on our behalf. We thank them for their service to our country and their fight for peace and justice wherever in the world they are sent.

With that in mind, CFRA invites you to attend a massive "Red Friday" public rally. This is a non-partisan, non-political rally in support of Canadian troops and their families:

Friday Sept 22,  2006 
Parliament Hill,  Ottawa 
12:00 Noon - 1:00  pm

Police officers, firefighters, city staff, politicians of all stripes, OC Transpo staff, paramedics, united way workers, private businesspeople and the general public will join a 
colourful parade of veterans as they show respect and thanks in a very public way.

PLEASE SHARE THIS PAGE WITH EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST. HELP SPREAD THE WORD, AND WEAR RED THIS FRIDAY!

For more information on supporting our troops, visit http://www.marriedtothecanadianforces.com

To order support our troops merchandise, visit: http://www.cfpsa.com


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## career_radio-checker (19 Sep 2006)

Oct 28, hmmm 

sounds pretty close to cold snap season. 

It will be interesting to see how many actually turn out.


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## aesop081 (19 Sep 2006)

October 29th, day of protest against idiot protesters


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## Journeyman (19 Sep 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> This summer *Canadians rose up to denounce Stephen Harper * for calling the U.S.-Israeli war crimes against Lebanon and the Lebanese people “a measured response”. *Let us do the same* to show that “Canada’s war in Afghanistan” is not our war, no matter how much the Prime Minister, generals and a compliant media try to sell it that way,



....and likely to the same effect.  :


"a compliant media" ...._selling_ the war?  Pardon  ???


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## George Wallace (19 Sep 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> This summer *Canadians rose up to denounce Stephen Harper * for calling the U.S.-Israeli war crimes against Lebanon and the Lebanese people “a measured response”. *Let us do the same* to show that “Canada’s war in Afghanistan” is not our war, no matter how much the Prime Minister, generals and a compliant media try to sell it that way,



Funny?  Wasn't it just last Fall that the majority of Canadians 'ELECTED' Stephen Harper and his party to become the new Government?


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## Remius (19 Sep 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Funny?  Wasn't it just last Fall that the majority of Canadians 'ELECTED' Stephen Harper and his party to become the new Government?



Actually, as a minority government wouldn't that mean that a majority of Canadians voted for other parties?

Just being a jerk.   ;D


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## Chewie (19 Sep 2006)

;D  it would mean we all got it wrong


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## William Webb Ellis (19 Sep 2006)

zipper head, where did you find this information....


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## boondocksaint (19 Sep 2006)

again, good use of the word tripe

and thanks for the information


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## baudspeed (19 Sep 2006)

> to show that “Canada’s war in Afghanistan” is not our war,


Keeping full in mind that I am still a civilian and have not *earned* the opportunity to be in the CF yet, but that statement is the part that really cranks me up every time i hear it. 
NATO was 'invited' in. If you see any afghan political reps on TV, they are always talking about how canada / NATOas invited into the country to help! If someone off the street asks for help, it is a canadian thing to do to help out. Grrrr... this really gets me going. 
I cant beleive that people would be protesting (if they actually get off the couch) to stop people helping those who need it.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Sep 2006)

Here's a little something from the Canadian Peace Alliance web page on the 28 Oct 06 protest (event listing below text of statement):

http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Afghanistan.htm

Call for action on October 28, 2006
End Canada's occupation of Afghanistan 

The Collectif Échec à la guerre, Canadian Peace Alliance the Canadian Labour Congress and the Canadian Islamic Congress are jointly calling for a pan-Canadian day of protest this October 28th 2006 to bring Canadian troops home from Afghanistan. On that day, people all across the country will unite to tell Stephen Harper that we are opposed to his wholehearted support for Canadian and US militarism. 

This October marks the 5th anniversary of the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, and the people of that country are still suffering from the ravages of war. Reconstruction in the country is at a standstill and the needs of the Afghan people are not being met. The rule of the new Afghan State, made up largely of drug running warlords, will not realize the democratic aspirations of the people there. In fact, according to Human Rights Watch reports, the human rights record of those warlords in recent years has not been better than the Taliban. 

We are told that the purpose of this war is to root out terrorism and protect our societies, yet the heavy-handed approach of a military occupation trying to impose a US-friendly government on the Afghan people will force more Afghans to become part of the resistance movement. It will also make our societies more - not less - likely to see terrorist attacks. No discussion on military tactics in the House of Commons will change that reality. Indeed, violence is increasing with more attacks on both coalition troops and on Afghan civilians. 

While individual Canadian soldiers may have gone to Afghanistan with the best of intentions, they are operating under the auspices of a US-led state building project that cares little for the needs of the Afghan people. US and Canadian interests rest with the massive $3.2 billion Trans Afghan Pipeline (TAP) project, which will bring oil from the Caspian region through southern Afghanistan (where Canada is stationed) and onto the ports of Pakistan. It has been no secret that the TAP has dominated US foreign policy towards Afghanistan for the last decade. Now Canadian oil and gas corporations have their own interests in the TAP. 

Over the last decade, the role of the Canadian Armed Forces abroad has changed and Canadian foreign policy has become a replica of the US empire building rhetoric. The end result of this process is now plain to see with the role of our troops in Southern Afghanistan, with the enormous budget increases for war expenditures and "security", with the Bush-style speeches of Stephen Harper, and with the fear campaigns around "homegrown terrorism" to foster support for those nefarious changes. It is this very course that will get young Canadian soldiers killed, that will endanger our society and consume more and more of its resources for destruction and death in Afghanistan. We demand a freeze in defense and security budgets until an in-depth public discussion is held on those issues across Canada.

The mission in Afghanistan has already cost Canadians more than $4 billion. That money could have been used to fund human needs in Canada or abroad. Instead it is being used to kill civilians in Afghanistan and advance the interests of corporations. 

On October 28th, stand up and be counted. Canadian Troops Out of Afghanistan Now!

For more information see: www.acp-cpa.ca ; http://www.echecalaguerre.org/ ; http://www.clc-ctc.ca/ ; http://www.canadianislamiccongress.com/

Event Listings (as of 12:26pm 19Sep06)
http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Oct28Events.htm

Charlotteown, PEI

PEACE WALK and RALLY 
Troops out of Afghanistan 

On October 28th the Island Peace Committee invites Islanders to a Peace Walk and Rally 12:30pm gather in Rochford Square Park, (across from Charlottetown Hotel) Peace Walk to the PEI Legislature where there will be a Peace Rally with speeches, music and petitions. For more information call 368-7337

Toronto, ON

March and Rally
Troops out of Afghanistan
Saturday October 28th
1 pm 
US Consulate (360 University ave)

for more info see: www.nowar.ca
or e-mail stopthewar-at-sympatico.ca

Vancouver, BC

Bring the troops home! 

Gather: 12 Noon in front of Canada Place (at Waterfront Station, foot of Howe St.)
March: 1p.m. 
Rally: 2p.m. at Vancouver Art Gallery (Georgia and Howe)

For more info see. www.stopwar.ca

Victoria, BC

12 noon, centennial square speakers, music, followed by a march info: andrew barry 885-2210


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## Korus (19 Sep 2006)

I feel better knowing that they have the right to protest based on warped views of the world, as opposed to being killed by an oppressive government for having *any* views differing from theirs. Now if only these protesters understood that....


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## TMM (19 Sep 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I came across this "nugget" of hippy tripe:



Hippy tripe? Nah we're all vegetarian tree huggers.



			
				zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Canadian soldiers are being sent to Afghanistan as aggressors and occupiers.




As opposed to the passive and home grown friendly folks of Taliban and Al-Qaeda.



			
				zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> What noble purpose are these Canadians dying for?




The ones that a lot of these folks(myself included) have protested and protest against - poverty, sexism, religious freedom, democracy. I'm not a fan of foreign tanks in the streets but there was a difference between the tanks in the old country in 1945 and 1968. Some people just see tanks and weapons not the reasons for them being somewhere at a specific time.


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## couchcommander (19 Sep 2006)

Yaaarr!

Tie their socks and haul 'em lubbers down the keel!


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## hugh19 (19 Sep 2006)

What is a lobber?? Or do you mean lubber? hehe ;D


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## zipperhead_cop (19 Sep 2006)

William Webb Ellis said:
			
		

> zipper head, where did you find this information....



I spotted it on another forum.  My partner is the moderator on a family/homeschooling/breastfeeding website.  It has about 350 members, and of that 5 are men and all the men are married to one of the other members.  I thought it would be fun to go in and provide my "unique" perspective on life and things.  If you can believe it   there are a few hippies on that site.  I have had a ball shredding their rhetoric.  They aren't even sharp hippies like some of the ones that showed up for the Ex Charging Bison thread.  These are just misinformed housewives.  One of them even let her pacifist husband "guest post" on her account.  Oh baby, did he take a beating!  And since my regular partner is a mod, it is pretty hard for me to get banned (although you know it's coming).  Once nice thing, though.  When she posted that topic, there was a fairly immediate and strong reaction against her from other moms who believe in the mission and in the CF in general.  
Oh, I almost forgot this delightful peice!

The Truth about Canada in Afghanistan
http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/TenTruthsAfghanistan.pdf

Scan through that waste of a PDF file and have some fun.  The hippies are taking it as gospel.


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## couchcommander (19 Sep 2006)

arrg, the talk'n tis the first to go when ye be overflowin with grog...

- "Mast Hugger Hannibal"

*edit for more piratish*


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## zipperhead_cop (19 Sep 2006)

Gad!  Looking at this thread it is killing me seeing my screen name associated with the various quotes that have been highlighted.  
My feet!  Oh god!  Are those Bierkenstocks?!?  AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!   :crybaby:


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## couchcommander (19 Sep 2006)

Don't ya be saying nasty things about me Bierkenstocks! When we bees sailing where the sun tis so hot it melt the gold right outta ya teeth, then you'll be tink'in "why is ol Mast Hugger Hannibal's feet so cool, and would'ca set yer eyes upon that posture of 'is?"

Yaaarrr!


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## aluc (19 Sep 2006)

These people - champions of human rights - my ass! How can they speak of human rights , yet don't want to help out those around the world that can't help themselves . Hypocrates ....all of them!


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## Nemo888 (19 Sep 2006)

I say we withhold their welfare cheques as punishment!


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## warspite (19 Sep 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Canadian soldiers are being sent to Afghanistan as aggressors and occupiers. The tanks are said to be for shock action and to make killing from a long distance easier. Retired General Lewis McKenzie has been quoted as saying “It’s sort of nice to be able to stand back and turn to the tanker and say, "Take that house out’” rather than have soldiers themselves to inside to "clear out the enemy". This open talk of war crimes against an occupied people is not acceptable.



What the heck is wrong with these yuppies?... is some neuron in their brain misfiring? What the heck don't they get? What...........
Beathe deeply... life is but a dream within a dream... breathe in... breathe out... count to ten...........(insert sound of warspite banging his head against his monitor here)

There we go. Why do these idiots have to preach there imbecility to the masses why can't they just shut up and disagree in private rather than spewing their yuppie ideology to the masses..........


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## GAP (19 Sep 2006)

warspite said:
			
		

> What the heck is wrong with these yuppies?... is some neuron in their brain misfiring? What the heck don't they get? What...........
> Beathe deeply... life is but a dream within a dream... breathe in... breathe out... count to ten...........(insert sound of warspite banging his head against his monitor here)
> 
> There we go. Why do these idiots have to preach there imbecility to the masses why can't they just shut up and disagree in private rather than spewing their yuppie ideology to the masses..........



Living in a free country, they have the right to disagree with you, me and the entire military establishment, and they can do it very vocally, in ignorant ways, and you know what....that's all right. Better that than the alternative.


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## warspite (19 Sep 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Living in a free country, they have the right to disagree with you, me and the entire military establishment, and they can do it very vocally, in ignorant ways, and you know what....that's all right. Better that than the alternative.


I agree.
Don't get me wrong I believe very much in freedom of speech but it can be frustrating to listen to these fools.


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## xmarcx (19 Sep 2006)

Sadly, having just finished my Human Rights degree, the majority of my peers/friends are participating in this kind of idiotic nonsense  :-[

Magically, they have all forgotten (well, never bothered to learn) that pre-invasion, Amnesty International/Human Rights Watch spent the better part of a decade screaming for the world to go in and do something about the insane Taliban committing all sorts of hienous affronts to humanity - now the next generation of activists is demanding that we let the extremists roll right back into town!

I've been trying to condense half a dozen academic papers on modern terrorism/Afghanistan into a 'reality check' fact sheet to use for my own counter-nefarious purposes. If anyone is looking for some academic/fact-based background on Islamic terrorism and human rights & the Taliban to work on their hippie-dueling skills, PM me and I'll try to help.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Sep 2006)

+1 GAP

While I understand the concept of freedom of expression, and worrying about the alternative, it frosts me to hear only PART of the story from ANYONE!  It's not the bitchin', it's the one-SIDED bitchin'...


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## McG (19 Sep 2006)

I suppose it does not matter that this is a UN mandated mission run by NATO & other nations (not the USA).  It is irrelevant that the government was democratically elected by the Afghan people through internationally supervised elections.  I suppose it does not matter that reconstruction is at a standstill because of destructive actions of the Taliban.  It is irrelevant that our goals in Afghanistan have the same moral integrity as peacekeeping. We could put all sorts of effort into deconstructing their arguments, but we’ve already done this (here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49909.0.html).

. . . but I’ve found one can have much fun reinforcing stupidity with more stupidity.  So, for anyone looking to have a little fun with this, go join the local protest with big signs reading:

*“Let the weak of the world defend themselves from atrocity: End Peacekeeping!”*
or
*“Support Taliban Rule! End equality for women in Afghanistan!”*
or
*“Down with the democratically elected Afghan government!”*
or maybe even
*“The UN Security Council is wrong; We should not help the Afghans”*
and my favourite
*“I support governments that sponsor terrorists!  Taliban, yeah!”*​
Have fun with it, and make sure the media get a camera full of your stupid poster.


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## McG (19 Sep 2006)

You could also send letters to thier sponsors.  Some are not likely to be swayed, but others may pull thier support: http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/OCT28Endorsers.htm


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## Teddy Ruxpin (19 Sep 2006)

I think MCG has the right of it.  I wonder what the masses of union members would think should they realize that their money - in the form of their union dues - goes to support such nonsensical lunatic fringe politics?


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## Jaydub (20 Sep 2006)

Does anyone know anything about "counter-demonstrations" planned for the same day as these protests?  I would gladly march in support of the mission.  There are plenty of people out there that support the mission in Afghanistan.  Why can't we organise?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Sep 2006)

Because WE have lives........ ;D


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## Harris (20 Sep 2006)

I'd love to go counter protest but I suspect that someone would push my buttons and my counter protest would turn into the counter punch.


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## vonGarvin (20 Sep 2006)

CUPE and CUPW are both sponsors of said event.  We ALL know members of CUPE.  Heck, they strike and we get a pay raise, so we MUST get along! ;D
Ask your local dudes: do you realise that your union is sponsoring this?


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## medicineman (20 Sep 2006)

These people are walking reasons that half-way houses should be better supervised.

MM


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## Shamrock (20 Sep 2006)

This here is an example of where Grossman and Orwell converge.


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## medicineman (20 Sep 2006)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> I think MCG has the right of it.  I wonder what the masses of union members would think should they realize that their money - in the form of their union dues - goes to support such nonsensical lunatic fringe politics?



I wonder if the unions thought about whether or not their bretheren have it in their contracts to be allowed to attend said day of protest and what the pay scale for said day would be... 

MM


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## Blindspot (21 Sep 2006)

Well I sent an email to stopwar.ca:

Dear Stopwar.ca,

It’s very encouraging to know that your right to protest continues unabated, courtesy of our fine Canadian Armed Forces and the veterans who have served the Canadian people over the years. May you forever continue in your endeavors to bring peace to the world.

Regards,

M. M.

Toronto

And I got a reply:



> Michael,
> 
> Indeed, and some soldiers and veterans are beginning to exercise their right to denounce Harper and Hillier's warmongering and the terrible spot it has put Canada in. There are likely to be more cases like that of Francisco Juarez.
> 
> StopWar.ca



So I just had to write back: 

Let us hope you are correct. The sooner the Canadian Forces weed out all of its agents provocateurs the better. It is quite sad and unfortunate that many Canadians know nothing about our Armed Forces and have nothing other than our media to enlighten them with their shoddy journalism. 

Those in the Military understand quite well what kind of person Francisco Juarez is and none aspire to be like him, I assure you of that. I apologise for my negative tone, but the only way I can describe Mr. Juarez is "opportunistic coward".

Regards,

M. M.


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## TCBF (21 Sep 2006)

I think this would be a good time for President Hamid Karzai to visit Canada...


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## HDE (21 Sep 2006)

Given the numbers of members of the various union "endorsers" it'll be interesting to see how many tens of thousands people show up.
The union leadership can never bring out the bodies when it counts, or even in this case.

Wasn't the "Juarez" guy the dropout who was being groomed for Afghanistan and shown to be a total phoney?


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## warspite (21 Sep 2006)

HDE said:
			
		

> Wasn't the "Juarez" guy the dropout who was being groomed for Afghanistan and shown to be a total phoney?


Can't find it in the forum but pretty sure that he's the one.


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## Dissident (21 Sep 2006)

How hard would it be for a counter protest to have a ring of people around those protesters? 

Pro life people like to demonstrate at UBC, but not as much as the students at large like to counter protest by surrounding the pro life crowd with a bigger pro choice one, sponteanously.


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## old medic (21 Sep 2006)

warspite said:
			
		

> Can't find it in the forum but pretty sure that he's the one.



http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50044.0.html


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## The_Falcon (21 Sep 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> CUPE and CUPW are both sponsors of said event.  We ALL know members of CUPE.  Heck, they strike and we get a pay raise, so we MUST get along! ;D
> Ask your local dudes: do you realise that your union is sponsoring this?



I work around people from CUPE local 1600, the few that I have had conversations about this sort of thing (cause most people at my work know I am in the army), are aware of where thier union dues are going, but like a "typical" Canadian they are largely apathetic about it.  This is just my thoughts on the subject, but I strongly believe the "majority" of the people in unions (public and private) really don't give a damn about who thier union is sponsoring, or what thier policy towards Isreal is.  All they care about is the money/benefits union employees make over non-union, politics be damned.


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## alfie (15 Oct 2006)

The Canadian Peace Alliance are planning a peace love in for the Taliban and Al Quada across Canada on October 28th and at other locations see this link http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Oct28Events.htm. 
I plan to show my support for the troops by wearing red, I might even dig out my old camies and show up and hopefully get picked up by the media (remember there was only about 6-10 of them at our wear red rally on parliment Hill and they got interviewed). Anyone else like minded individuals are welcome to attend and share their opinions with the lefties.After verifying I have discovered that they are planning for Ottawa to do their event at the UN Peacekeeping Monument on Sussex Dr. what a show of disrespect for our peacekeepers.  Suggestions welcome on counter events.

D.Perrault
CPSM
UNEF II


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## GDawg (15 Oct 2006)

LOL
Protesting at a Federal building (Calgary) n a Saturday probably won't work.
 At least they won't be able to hassle the CFRC, protesting Canada's involvement in Afghanistan at the CFRC makes as much sense as beating up your mailman because you don't like GST. These poor fools don't understand reality. 

As for counter events? I will be holding a huge recruiting event for my unit as well as our annual mess dinner.


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## Danjanou (15 Oct 2006)

Big surprise, the "target" here in Toronto is the US Consulate.  Nothing better to do that Saturday, and it's only a 10 minute walk form my place, may stroll down and watch naivety in action.


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## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Big surprise, the "target" here in Toronto is the US Consulate.  Nothing better to do that Saturday, and it's only a 10 minute walk form my place, may stroll down and watch naivety in action.


Please get some photos.  I love watching stupid people.  

Cheers!


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## Danjanou (15 Oct 2006)

I was thinking of dragging along my camera and attaching the big honking tele-photo lens and standing across the street. You think that they may misinterpret that? >


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## peaches (15 Oct 2006)

I looked at the list of protest sites, I noticed no protest is planned for Khandahar.  No march of unity with the Taliban in A-Stan.  I guess even the looney lefties don't want their heads cut off.


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## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2006)

Oh Goody! There's one planned for Fredericton!
_Fredericton, NB

Troops out of Afghanistan
Peace March and Rally, October 28th. Meet at 1pm at Officers' Square (on the corner of Queen and Regent Streets).
There will be a march followed by a rally with speeches, music and an information table. 
For more information, contact the Fredericton Peace Coalition at info-at-frederictonpeace.org or call 454-9527._


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## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2006)

I wonder if these guys realise that this kind of language is inflammatory and false:
_Halifax, NS

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!
*Stop Killing Afghans*, Cease all Canadian Combat Operations in Kandahar _ 


Just wondering is all....


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## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2006)

These guys need a dose of reality:
_Nelson, BC

Support the Afghan People, End the War_
I guess having all those kids going to school is a bad thing....(I mean the kids in Afghanistan, and the fact that because of our actions they are safe to go to school, for the most part)


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## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2006)

OK, this one takes the cake:
_Winnipeg, MB

End Canada's War *On * Afghanistan !

Rally! March! People's Forum!
Assemble at Central Park 1PM (Ellice at Edmonton)
March to the University of Winnipeg for a People's Forum at the Bulman Centre
Organized by the Peace Alliance Winnipeg www.peacealliancewinnipeg.ca
For more information email: info-at-peacealliancewinnipeg.ca or phone 947-2220_
I love ignorant people; however, note my byline re: stupid people in large groups...


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## Jacqueline (15 Oct 2006)

In Ottawa, it's called _Pan Canadian Day of Action_
                              _CANADA OUT OF AFGHANISTAN_
Saturday, October 28 13:00 hrs
Peace Keeping Memorial
Sussex at St. Patrick


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## Teddy Ruxpin (15 Oct 2006)

Well, here's their "fact" sheet, taken from the Canadian "Peace" Alliance website.  Riddled with holes, factual inaccuracies, conspiracy theories and outright fabrications, as seems to be usual.  Let's examine it in a bit of detail:

http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Afghanistanfactsheet.pdf



> The Government of Canada has sent 2,250 Canadian soldiers to be stationed in Kandahar Afghanistan. The soldiers will be fighting alongside about 8,000 US soldiers
> and are under the command of Operation Archer in support of the US led “Operation Enduring Freedom”. It is expected that command of the Canadian units will shift to
> NATO control by 2007.



NATO is currently commanding the mission.  Canadian Forces have been under NATO command since last summer and were under NATO command in Kabul.



> Canada will be operating along the southern border between Pakistan and Afghanistan in Kandahar province. This is a crucial area for two reasons: it is the location of Taliban strongholds and it is the proposed route for the multibillion dollar Trans-Afghan pipeline. It is no secret that since the collapse of the Soviet Union US oil companies have been keen to exploit Caspian Sea oil and gas. They lobbied the Clinton administration to have a pipeline built from Turkmenistan in the north through Afghanistan to ports in Pakistan. They see even more opportunity with George Bush as president. Afghanistan is important to US oil Companies because it is the only route that would provide total control for them. The other possible routes for the pipeline run through Iran, an enemy of the US, China, a competitor of the US, or Russia, an unreliable and heavily
> armed ally.



Here's where the conspiracy theory begins.  There's potential for oil in the Caspian, ergo there must be a requirement for a pipeline.  As pointed out on other threads, the Unocal project wound up in 1998.  *It does not exist.*  There's been talk - and that's all it is - of a pipeline since, but little else.  Afghanistan is only one possible route from the Caspian oil and gas fields, and not the most secure one at that.



> The Department of National Defence says that Canadians, and the other international forces, are there to “reinforce the authority of the Afghan government in and around Kandahar and help local authorities stabilize and rebuild the region.” Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan is considered a US puppet by most Afghanis. His authority outside Kabul is merely symbolic. Local control in the provinces is left to a mix of opium gangsters, former Taliban commanders and tribal elders. Mark Schneider, president of International Crisis Group has said, “It’s not merely about drug money financing candidates. Drug lords are candidates.”



"Most Afghanis"? (it's _Afghans_ by the way, "Afghani" is the currency)  Did the CPA take a poll?  He certainly was the most popular in the 2004 elections, widely considered free and fair by the international community.  Who is Mark Schneider and who is the "International Crisis Group"?  What are his credentials to pass judgement on Afghan politics.



> The United States and the Karzai Administration are, in most cases, happy to work and make deals with these local rulers. According to Human Rights Watch the majority (60%) of those elected to the Afghan parliament in the October, 18, 2005 elections were these local criminals and power brokers or their associates. US forces and allied local warlords are responsible for human rights abuses in the country. According to Human Rights Watch:
> 
> "U.S. forces operating against Taliban insurgents continue to generate numerous claims of human rights abuses against the civilian population, including arbitrary arrests, use of excessive force, and mistreatment of detainees… Local military and police forces, even in Kabul, have been involved in arbitrary arrests, kidnapping, extortion, torture,
> and extrajudicial killings of criminal suspects. Outside Kabul, commanders and their troops in many areas have been implicated in widespread rape of women, girls, and boys, murder, illegal detention, forced displacement, and other specific abuses against women and children, including human trafficking and forced marriage.



Claims of abuse from whom?  On what data did Human Rights Watch base its conclusions?  Since when did the US have power of arrest in Afghanistan?  "In many areas".  Which areas?  North or south?  Pashtun or otherwise?



> According to General Rick Hillier, Canadians are going to Afghanistan to “Kill detestable murderers and scumbags”. The reality is that we are going to support, some of the worst human rights abusers the country has ever seen. This deadly combination of abuses by both US forces and their local allies ensures that Canadians will continue
> to face growing resistance from the Afghan people.



Are we to assume by this that the CPA regards the Taliban as the true representatives of the Afghan people?  The ICRC, within the last two weeks, lauded Canadian treatment of prisoners and detainees.  The international community appears to be satisfied with our actions in theatre.  Why can the CPA not be?



> State of Reconstruction
> 
> We are told that the Canadian soldiers will be engaging in development work as part of their mission. This type of intervention, generally referred to as the 3-D approach (disarmament, diplomacy and development) has come under heavy criticism from NGOs for confusing the process and endangering aid workers. It is argued that having the development component so intertwined with the defense operation results in corruption and the use of development initiatives as bribes to local authorities and civilians. It also eliminates the possibility of development work being neutral in the conflict. According to a report in the Guardian, Vickie Hawkins, acting head of the Médecin
> Sans Frontières mission in Afghanistan said the international humanitarian group left Afghanistan for these very reasons.



There are dozens upon dozens of NGOs operating in Afghanistan.  The only two - AFAIK - that have come out publically supporting the CPA position are CARE Canada and Medecin San Frontieres.  Neither have presented any evidence whatsoever that their position is correct.  Indeed, MSF holds _any_ military in contempt - even forces from Western democratic nations - and could hardly have been expected to cooperate with NATO efforts in theatre.  Again, there are dozens of NGOs operating in Afghanistan right now.  One wonders how effective they'd be having to deal with the Taliban on their own.



> The US-led coalition has made the situation worse by blurring the line between humanitarian work and military operations. During the war in 2001, Hawkins said, US soldiers were driving around in civilian clothes in white cars, taking on the appearance of humanitarian aid workers. In May, the Pentagon was forced to apologize for dropping leaflets in southern Afghanistan which promised humanitarian assistance if local people gave the coalition information about the Taliban and al-Qaida. She despaired that military campaigns were employing “hearts and minds” strategies more and more often, making it difficult for aid workers to maintain their aura of all-important impartiality. If armies are handing out food assistance and medical equipment, it becomes harder for locals to tell the aid workers from the occupiers.



Aside from this unproven accusation, what evidence is there that the local population confuses military personnel with humanitarian aid workers?  Answer:  none.  Such an accusation assumes a stunning level of stupidity on the behalf of local Afghans, most of whom are intimately familiar with soldiers.  Indeed, one suspects that, given Taliban ideology, the aid workers would be as much of a target as any military personnel.  



> Opium
> 
> Revenue from poppy cultivation – between$2-3 billion annually – is now double the amount of international aid. Ironically, the money coming from opium production is now the chief source of “reconstruction funds” in the country. Afghan farmers have little option but to produce poppies and will continue to do so. It is the only crop that will generate
> enough money to survive on. The British Government, worried that most of the heroin ending up on UK streets came from Afghanistan, began an eradication program for poppy cultivation. Afghan farmers were promised aid and new seeds in return for ending their production but the aid never arrived and many have returned to poppy cultivation. Attempts at a new eradication program will likely end in conflict unless there is a real commitment to provide viable alternatives to the farmers.
> ...



The UK Government did not support an eradication programme and did not implement one.  How does the CPA arrive at its conclusion that drug money equals "reconstruction funds".  The fact of the matter remains that the Taliban uses poppy money to fund its terror campaign.  The CPA appears to support the _return_ of the Taliban to eradicate opium production...tsk, tsk...



> Canadian Corporations in the Caspian
> 
> According to the Energy Information Administration there are proven reserves of between 17 and 44 billion barrels of oil and 232 trillion cubic feet of gas in the Caspian region. Production of these reserves is very limited. As of 2004 only about 11% of the regions gas reserves, which equal those of Saudi Arabia, were under production. On December 27, 2002 Afghanistan Pakistan and Turkmenistan signed an agreement to build a 1,500 kilometer long Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline – a $3.2 billion project expected to deliver 30 Billion cubic meters of natural gas a year. The only stumbling block to finally realizing this deal is the lack of stability in Afghanistan.



Again, what pipeline?  What is the route?  What organization is building it?  What contracts have been let?  Who is funding it?  First it was oil, now it's gas...



> In September 2004 a joint Omani-Canadian delegation led by Yusuf bin Alavi, foreign minister of Oman, and Jean Chretien, former Prime Minister of Canada, met in  Turkmenistan to negotiate a deal between Edmonton based Buried Hill Energy and the government of Turkmenistan to develop the Serdar block in the Caspian area. This is not the first or only time that the former Prime Minister, a man responsible for sending thousands of Canadian soldiers to Afghanistan, has intervened on behalf of Canadian corporations for contracts in the area.2 On the same trip Chretien met with Saparmurat Niyazov, the self proclaimed president for life of Turkmenistan, and discussed  potential involvement from Canadian corporations in the Trans-Afghan pipeline.3 On October 20 2004 Thermo Design received a contract worth $42 million for the production of an LPG and gas condensate plant in Turkmenistan that would produce 50,000 tons of LPG and 200,000 tons of condensate gas (light gasoline) annually.4
> 
> The hypocrisy of signing multi-million dollar deals with one of the worst human rights abusers in the region5 while simultaneously arguing that Canada’s soldiers are bringing peace is obvious. It is also standard operating procedure for successive governments of Canada to ignore issues of Human rights if there is money to be made in international deals. These facts call into question the real reasons why Canada is in Afghanistan.



And how are these events connected to Afghanistan, aside from the rather dubious pipeline noted above.  Does the CPA really believe that the CF is at war in Afghanistan to support two minor Canadian energy players?  Moreover, in what context was Chretien operating - as a private citizen?



> The people of Afghanistan want peace. The occupiers and their puppet and former Unocal employee, Hamid Karzai want oil. We have seen the US and its Allies in this scenario before. Whether in Chile in 1973 when the US sponsored a coup to make sure that the copper mines were not nationalized or in Iraq where they have killed more than a million people to control the oil resources they will brutally enforce a corrupt and divisive political process to keep the people divided so they can pillage the land of its resources. They don’t care who is in power or what type of society they are creating. In this case they are building a society based on corruption, drugs and violence. Canada is now the cop trying to impose these realities on the people of Afghanistan.



Karzai was never a Unocal employee.  This was a bizarre accusation raised by a French newspaper and subsequently quoted by that prat Michael Moore in his inflammatory masturbatory piece "Fahrenheit 9/11".  CPA needs to put up or shut up.

Finally, what resources is the CPA referring to?  Are there any proven reserves of energy in Afghanistan - of any type?  Are there any _suspected_ reserves that have been even cursorily examined by an on-the-ground exploration programme?  I didn't think so...

Their last paragraph illustrates what's really at work here.  Despite the support of the UN, NATO, and the Non-Aligned Movement, the CPA and its fellow travellers are interested in only one thing:  seeing the US corporate-industrial bogeyman under every international bed.  They love a conspiracy theory and revel yet another attempt to wheel out their long-discredited agenda.  I can hear the chants now:  "Canada out of Afghanistan", "No Blood for Oil" and the like - all as facetious now as they were in 1970.


----------



## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2006)

Very good piece, Teddy.  The funny thing that these whackos forget is the Canada is the Number one foreign supplier of oil to the US.  Mexico is second.  Why spend bazillions of dollars on a supposed "pipeline" when even if it did exist, practically none of that oil would end up in the US?

As I've said before: beware of the power of stupid people in large groups.


----------



## Danjanou (15 Oct 2006)

> Who is Mark Schneider and who is the "International Crisis Group"?  What are his credentials to pass judgement on Afghan politics.



Your wish is my command.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1315&l=1

As to his/their credentials…well I guess to the granola brigade they look pretty good. He appears to be an SME in the same vein as Taliban Jack and the mouthpiece,  excuse me the delegated spokesperson for the Polaris Institute


----------



## Rodahn (15 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Your wish is my command.
> 
> http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1315&l=1
> 
> As to his/their credentials…well I guess to the granola brigade they look pretty good. He appears to be an SME in the same vein as Taliban Jack and the mouthpiece,  excuse me the delegated spokesperson for the Polaris Institute



Mark Schneider 

Senior Vice President; Special Adviser on Latin America. Okay I'm even more confused than normal..... When did Afganistan become part of Latin America...... Granted it does note that he is an "expert" on rebuilding after conflict and mentions A'stan in brackets....


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (15 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Your wish is my command.
> 
> http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1315&l=1
> 
> As to his/their credentials…well I guess to the granola brigade they look pretty good. He appears to be an SME in the same vein as Taliban Jack and the mouthpiece,  excuse me the delegated spokesperson for the Polaris Institute



Ahh yes, now I remember.  Their board has some fairly high-powered types...and they are big into the "Responsibility to Protect" doctrine - currently being applied in, oh, Afghanistan...

Their Afghanistan reports, at first glance, are balanced and very detailed.  One quote that directly contradicts the CPA:



> That the legislature contains warlords, commanders and drug traffickers is undisputed, but it is the institution, not the individual members, that is important. Their presence must not be used as an excuse to marginalise the body, which in this sense is not unique among the branches of the Afghan state.



And one very interesting statement that deserves quoting in full, even though it's a bit old (my emphasis added):



> Joint Statement by The International Crisis Group, *Care International, and the International Rescue Committee* on The Expansion of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan
> 
> Statement
> 31 October 2003
> ...



The CPA is engaging in just a bit of selective quoting...   :

Check out the rest of the Crisis Group's Afghan work here:  http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1266&l=1

My guess is that the CPA won't be quoting from them too much - they're very supportive of NATO in Afghanistan.


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## Pearson (15 Oct 2006)

Dollars to dognuts they will be using the cenotaph at the Halifax site for a podium.  :threat:

http://www.mikecampbell.net/cenotaph.htm


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## TCBF (15 Oct 2006)

Keep them OFF the Cenotaph!  Use fire hoses if you have to, but keep them OFF the Cenotaph!


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## warspite (16 Oct 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> Keep them OFF the Cenotaph!  Use fire hoses if you have to, but keep them OFF the Cenotaph!


Sadly this is probably what their hoping will happen. Make themselves seem like the victim when their interviewed on the six o'clock news.


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## McG (16 Oct 2006)

> Thanks but… No Tanks!
> Troops out of Afghanistan
> 
> The Government of Canada has announced that it is sending another 450 soldiers and a squadron of heavy battle tanks to Afghanistan to stop the advance of the Taliban in Kandahar province. This is a dangerous escalation in a war that is becoming increasingly violent for NATO soldiers and the people of Afghanistan. The CPA strongly condemns this arms buildup and calls for the troops to be brought home now.
> ...


http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/media_centre.html
I see they like selective use of statistics as well.


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## vonGarvin (16 Oct 2006)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> "On October 28 2006 tens of thousands of people will be taking to the streets in Canada to cal for our troops to be brought home now."
> 
> 
> And tens of millions WON'T.... :



Although you are 100% correct, the problem is that on the evening news, those millions and millions of people won't show up, just those unemployed, those university students skipping class and a selection of so-called intelligentsia will be on the streets and on the screens of televisions.  Sadly, they don't even realise that most of the left, including the Birkenstockers worldwide, APPLAUD NATO's effort in Afghanistan.


----------



## niner domestic (16 Oct 2006)

Well, on October 28th, I plan to be celebrating in memory of my dear grandfather, the birthday of his beloved corps - The Royal Marines.  (Oct 28th, 1664)

Not to sound glib, but did shares in Birkenstocks go down or something? Or is the finality of the softwood lumber debate putting tree huggers and such out of their usual realm of protesting?

I should add that since it's my job nowadays to deal with war crimes and so far, no Canadians have appeared on my docket...how wrong are these people????


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## career_radio-checker (16 Oct 2006)

von Grognard said:
			
		

> Although you are 100% correct, the problem is that on the evening news, those millions and millions of people won't show up, *just those unemployed, those university students skipping class* and a selection of so-called intelligentsia will be on the streets and on the screens of televisions.



I hate to break it to you von Grognard, October 28th is a Saturday


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## vonGarvin (16 Oct 2006)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> I hate to break it to you von Grognard, October 28th is a Saturday



*gulp*
Now, right, go ahead and use FACTS to break up my argument

 :-[

Sorry bout that

I guess there won't be as many university students, since they'll all be hung over, or they'll wake up in some stranger's house and not know the way to the local protest


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## career_radio-checker (16 Oct 2006)

I have to express my unease of these rallies being held around war memorials. While the vast majority of the people in these groups are level headed individuals who simply want to state their cause, there are always a few bad apples (mainly anarchists) who go to rallies looking for a fight. 

Vandalism is what I am worried about. It has happened in the past and has the potential of occurring again, especially around the symbols of the things protesters are fighting against. Homes Not bombs is one organization that has more than once vandalised the monument outside of Moss Park Armoury. And if I recall, the GGFG's tank had paint splashed on it. Most recently I can remember the vandalism that happened on the National War Memorial this past Canada Day.

Here in Ottawa, the protester's march brings right past the National War Memorial and down to the Peace keeping monument. I for one don't want to see a repeat of Canada Day. Is anyone willing to spend the afternoon at the War memorial as part of an "honour guard" (in civies of course)? I am by no means advocating that we get involved in the rally or go looking for trouble (then we are just as bad as anarchist). All we would do is sit there, watch the colourful parade go by and make sure no dumb punk grafitis the tomb of the unknown. 

Anti-war activists, love em' or hate em,' has every right to make their protest, just as we had a right to hold the Red Fridays campaign on Parliament hill. But no one and I mean NO ONE has the right to desecrate a war memorial -- especially the National one.


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## McG (16 Oct 2006)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> I hate to break it to you von Grognard, October 28th is a Saturday


So, how about inviting all those people that have never been able to make it out to a Red Friday to show up for Red Saturday all across Canada on the 28th.  That's right.  Let's take the spotlight from the CPA on their day.


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## George Wallace (16 Oct 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> So, how about inviting all those people that have never been able to make it out to a Red Friday to show up for Red Saturday all across Canada on the 28th.  That's right.  Let's take the spotlight from the CPA on their day.



.....and hand out Flyers debunking the claims of the CPA, or show their support for the ISAF mission only three years ago.  Pass out copies of the poems that are being published here by soldiers.  Stick up "Support our Troops" posters along their parade route..... >


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## warspite (16 Oct 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> So, how about inviting all those people that have never been able to make it out to a Red Friday to show up for Red Saturday all across Canada on the 28th.  That's right.  Let's take the spotlight from the CPA on their day.


Muwhahahahah take that hippies :evil:


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## Big Foot (16 Oct 2006)

Sadly I have divisional training that weekend so unfortunately I can't go protest the protesters. What a surprise though, they're protesting at Queen`s University here in Kingston.


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## ArmyRick (16 Oct 2006)

These clowns make me sick. Our troops die in the line of duty and these snot-nosed hippy wanna-bes are bending the truth to try to re-live the bleeding '60s.


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## Blindspot (17 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I was thinking of dragging along my camera and attaching the big honking tele-photo lens and standing across the street. You think that they may misinterpret that? >



I was thinking the same thing except I don't have a monster lens (200mm max). However, I give you permission to capture any images of me should I be attacked while I shoot from a closer range.


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## Fyuri (17 Oct 2006)

In reading about this crap these hippies plan to pull, I think something desperately needs to be done to overshadow this ridiculous protest, which they are allowed to have thanks to the ones they protest against. I live in Windsor, and was apalled that something like this would be taking place in this city. In hindsight, I should have seen it coming, though. When I drop off my sister at university, I have taken notice of how many university students like to walk in front of moving vehicles, thinking everyone will stop for them. I guess this just shows how much power they have, boy, they're really going to hit the Forces hard with THIS one! (sarcasm, obviously) Anyways, just my stupid rant, 'tis late.


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## axeman (17 Oct 2006)

AND I QUOTE SOMEONE SOMEWHERE....


It is the soldier, not the reporter, 
who has given us freedom of the press. 

It is the soldier, not the poet, 
who has given us freedom of speech. 

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, 
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. 

It is the soldier, not the lawyer, 
who has given us the right to a fair trial. 

It is the soldier, 
who salutes the flag, 
who serves under the flag, 
and whose coffin is draped by the flag, 
who allows the protester to burn the flag.


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## loyalist (17 Oct 2006)

What a gem of a site. They're opposed to Mohmmed cartooons, too.

The fact is, unless you're going to stnd up and fight for what you belive in, either way, you're not really standing up for anythign. These guys just seem to want to keep their heads down and not offend anyone for their stay on planet earth...


Good luck with that.


----------



## 3rd Herd (17 Oct 2006)

Quote from the Calgary Support the Troops Rally

To a anti/against/confused participant "Your being here proves that my 20 years in the service of this country is worth something"(unknown veteran)

Reply/after action by anti/against/confused participant "imagine a fish gasping" or "someone recovering from a throat punch" and then leaving the area.


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## Synthos (17 Oct 2006)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Is anyone willing to spend the afternoon at the War memorial as part of an "honour guard" (in civies of course)? I am by no means advocating that we get involved in the rally or go looking for trouble (then we are just as bad as anarchist). All we would do is sit there, watch the colourful parade go by and make sure no dumb punk grafitis the tomb of the unknown.


(Ottawa war memorial)

Yes... I'll be there. You'll probably be able to pick me out in a red sweater and the only short hair in the whole throng of people (I'm 20)....



> .....and hand out Flyers debunking the claims of the CPA, or show their support for the ISAF mission only three years ago.  Pass out copies of the poems that are being published here by soldiers.  Stick up "Support our Troops" posters along their parade route.....



I want to make some flyers that have on the cover "The facts" and give an unbiased group of statistics showing people both sides, not just the spoon fed media stuff.

I also want... a megaphone. I'd love to read the article Piper wrote (with his permission). I read that today and I felt a pang in my heart. Or the poem about jack layton that someone posted.

If anyone wants to help make a facts flyer or obtain a megaphone ( > ) PM me


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## McG (17 Oct 2006)

Synthos said:
			
		

> I want to make some flyers that have on the cover "The facts" and give an unbiased group of statistics showing people both sides, not just the spoon fed media stuff.


Here is a start point for you:
http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/24-The-Afghanistan-Debate.html and
http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/23-Rebuttal-to-Jack-Laytons-article-in-the-Toronto-Star.html


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## alfie (18 Oct 2006)

I told the Royal Canadian Legion Dominion branch about the event here is their reply 

Subject: Peace March 
Date: October 17, 2006 12:36 PM 

Please note that the following has been sent today. Thank you for the heads up. 

17 October 2006 File: 81-9 

His Worship Bob Chiarelli 
Mayor 
The City of Ottawa 
110 Laurier Ave. West 
Ottawa, ON K1P 1J1 


Dear Mayor Chiarelli: 

On 28 October the Canadian Peace Alliance has called for an anti-Afghanistan War demonstration at the Canadian Peacekeeping Monument. The Royal Canadian Legion, in support of the Canadian Peacekeeping associations, is seriously concerned that this demonstration might accidentally lead to possible damage to the Monument. We also regret that the Alliance would show their disrespect of our fallen Peacekeepers by demonstrating at the Monument. 

It is requested that the City take every effort to protect the Monument during the demonstration. 

Duane Daly 
Dominion Secretary 

Cc: Mr. Pierre Pagé, City Clerk


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## Padraig OCinnead (19 Oct 2006)

The 28th of Oct is coincidently the same day as my unit's Freedom of the City Parade in Kingston. Though things are greatly improved here in the Limestone City WRT the relationship between the military and the civilian communities I hope that it does not become an issue with any protesters grandstanding our event. Unfortunately if they do show up and demand their 15 minutes we have ourselves a very unfair playing field while we are all in DEUs so we shall not respond. They may want to hang around while we change and return for a less disadvantaged discussion on the matters at hand.

Slainte,


----------



## George Wallace (19 Oct 2006)

Padraig OCinnead said:
			
		

> The 28th of Oct is coincidently the same day as my unit's Freedom of the City Parade in Kingston. Though things are greatly improved here in the Limestone City WRT the relationship between the military and the civilian communities I hope that it does not become an issue with any protesters grandstanding our event. Unfortunately if they do show up and demand their 15 minutes we have ourselves a very unfair playing field while we are all in DEUs so we shall not respond. They may want to hang around while we change and return for a less disadvantaged discussion on the matters at hand.
> 
> Slainte,



Ah!  Brings back memories of the RCD exercising the Freedom of the City in Lahr in 1983.  Everyone in their best bib and tucker, marching down the streets of this picturesque Schwarzwald city in their CF's and weapons in hand.  They stopped downtown and were admired by the crowds, which included the customary Green Peace Crowd of Anti-War Demonstrators, and at least a Coy of German Polizei Riot Squad.  The protesters came equipped with whistles which they blew constantly during the beginning of the ceremony...........up until the order "Fix Bayonets!"  Then it was silent.


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## warspite (19 Oct 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The protesters came equipped with whistles which they blew constantly during the beginning of the ceremony...........up until the order "Fix Bayonets!"  Then it was silent.


 ;D Ahahaha, made my day.


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## GDawg (19 Oct 2006)

An e-mail sent to the folks producing the "Support the troops, not the empire, bring our kids home" shirts:

As a member of the Canadian Forces, I feel you may wish to rethink your T-shirt slogan " Support our troops, not the empire, bring our kids home" for the following reasons:

You claim to "support the troops", though I doubt you consulted any of us when you produced your T-shirts, much less asked what they need from the Canadian public in the way of support. The real "Support the troops" merchandise proceeds go to support thousands of Canadian soldiers, and their loved ones across Canada, who is supported by the proceeds from your shirts?


 "Peace" protests are often directed at Canadian Forces (CF) bases or recruiting centres, which clearly shows you lack of "support" or respect for Canadian soldiers. You need to understand that it is the democratically elected government of Canada which dictates what missions the CF participates, and what their role will be in such missions. Harassing and inconveniencing members of the CF regarding the current mission in Afghanistan make as much sense as cornering your mailman about GST or NAFTA, both the mailman and the Soldier are federal employees, but neither have the ability to change governmental policy.

In your slogan, you implore the people to support the troops, not the empire...which empire is this? The UN, which sanctioned the mission? NATO, a union of free and democratic nations? Canada, a free and democratic nation? or Afghanistan, a struggling democracy seeking help from the west? Looks like we are supporting all 4 empires.

Lastly, you refer to Canadian Soldiers as "kids" to which I take personal offense. As you may or may not be aware, every single member of the CF is a volunteer, most members of the CF are also adults, one can join the CF as early as 16, but with the following caveats attached:
- They require permission of their parent or guardian and;
 - They are unable to be deployed on an overseas mission until they reach the age of majority.
Canadian Soldiers are not impressionable children, as you may wish to paint us. The CF is a reflection of the people of Canada, and the rights and values we cherish as a whole. It is worthy of note that reservists can only be deployed on a voluntary basis. No reservist has ever been deployed to Afghanistan without their expressed consent, and many hundreds of reservists have volunteered to go to Afghanistan since 2002.

 Like you, these Canadian soldiers have decided to dedicate a great deal to making the world a better place, and frankly a great deal more by volunteering their very lives to further human rights and peace in a far away land. They are worthy of the same level of respect which they are honour and duty bound to grant you.

Faithfully yours,

A Canadian Soldier


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## McG (19 Oct 2006)

I see the Ruxted Group is commenting: http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/26-Canadian-Peace-Alliance-and-Supporters-Mislead-Canada.html


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## Jacqueline (20 Oct 2006)

That is what I'm trying to say. I'm printing this, and giving it to people at work.


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## ExistancE (20 Oct 2006)

Were someone to theoreticaly attend one of these rallies to stand across the street with their own sign does anyone have ideas for any appropriate and concise slogans that could penetrate the bs bubble that encases the hippy brains with respect to our mission in Afghanistan. Things like "NATO lets little kids go to school"  or along those lines?


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## vonGarvin (20 Oct 2006)

I think a better sign would read:
"End the occupation of Afghanistan"
Then, in smaller letters below
"Support our Troops, send the Taliban home"


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## career_radio-checker (21 Oct 2006)

"Bring back Peacekeeping! 
Remember Bosnia and Rwanda"


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## nowhere_man (21 Oct 2006)

Frankie said:
			
		

> Dollars to dognuts they will be using the cenotaph at the Halifax site for a podium.  :threat:



Lovely there going to ruin the cenotaph. Hopefully I'm not working so that I can go watch some of this asanine protest. (Does anyone think that the recurting center would give me a few "Why Canada is in Afghanistan" phamplets to hand out to people downtown who have jobs?)


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## camochick (21 Oct 2006)

They are planning a rally and march in Edmonton on the 28th, and me and the wife (Pea) are planning on attending with our own signs to show support for our troops. It would be great if we could get a bunch of people out there with us, to show the other side of the story. Edmonton is very supportive of our troops, for the most part, so it would be great to get people out there on a day when they really need it.


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## RangerRay (21 Oct 2006)

Here's a website that may aid in organising counter-demos.  They have chapters in many Canadian cities and universities:

http://www.protestwarrior.com/

http://hq.protestwarrior.com/?page=chapters/list_chapters.php

Some ideas for signs:

http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?thumb=1

Enjoy!  ;D


----------



## vonGarvin (22 Oct 2006)

PROTEST WARRIOR!  God Bless You!  I stumbled across their website ages ago and forgot to bookmark it!  They Rock!

Cheers

My Fave?

"Communism has only killed 100 million people.  Let's give it another chance!"


----------



## Danjanou (22 Oct 2006)

Ok anyone in the Toronto area going down on Saturday to watch these idiots frolic in their natural environment? Say RV  somewhere nearby (Timmies at Dundas and University?)


----------



## twistidnick (22 Oct 2006)

This is treason as far as I'm concerned. my unit has an Ex on this weekend  so i can't do anything personally but i spoke with my Mcpls and the told me they will see to appropriate action being taken in Windsor. Even if I could do something I feel as if no matter what is done I will be seen as the aggressor to any media present. It's a sticky subject in this town right now.


----------



## The_Falcon (23 Oct 2006)

I'm on ex this weekend as well  .  Oh well some how I think I will get another shot eventually.  >


----------



## zipperhead_cop (23 Oct 2006)

Pte. (R) Amlin said:
			
		

> This is treason as far as I'm concerned. my unit has an Ex on this weekend  so i can't do anything personally but i spoke with my Mcpls and the told me they will see to appropriate action being taken in Windsor. Even if I could do something I feel as if no matter what is done I will be seen as the aggressor to any media present. It's a sticky subject in this town right now.



Just be careful.  These arseholes are well versed in misinformation.  They will do stull like maneuver a video camera behind one of their members that will walk up to you and get in your face.  If you so much as wipe your nose, the person will reel back and fall like a sack of potatoes as though you just smashed them with a rock.  Other arseholes will run over and start calling for an ambulance and other such theatrical foolishness.  You will want to do just that, but don't get sucked into their crap.  I believe that there is a special place in hell reserved for invertebrates like these, whereby they spend eternity as flame retardant toilet paper in the Devil's bathroom.


----------



## medicineman (23 Oct 2006)

Interesting way of putting it things.  I take it these sheets of TP are re-usable?

MM


----------



## zipperhead_cop (23 Oct 2006)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Interesting way of putting it things.  I take it these sheets of TP are re-usable?
> 
> MM



But of course.  After they are discarded into the commode, lesser minons collect the T-Hip-P and simply clean the sheets against each other by way of rapid friction and spiked base ball bats.  Then they are rolled out on a cut and press machine, reconsituted and put back on the roll, which has been coated in broken neon tube glass and fresh lemon wedges.  

[Note:  you do *not* want to get GAP or I rolling on a hypothetical hell/hippie torment/strange device hijack.  The last one got pretty nutty on the Space Patrol/Water for Sale thread  ]


----------



## a_majoor (24 Oct 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> [Note:  you do *not* want to get GAP or I rolling on a hypothetical hell/hippie torment/strange device hijack.  The last one got pretty nutty on the Space Patrol/Water for Sale thread  ]



Say, whatever happened to that thread anyway?  ;D


----------



## Danjanou (24 Oct 2006)

Ah so it does exist after all. I mean Lonely Planet would be the ultimate source on this right? 

I mean I get all my relevant world socio-economic political information from a bunch of hackey sack playing, Birkenstock wearing, over aged hippies traveling the world finding themselves on mommies VISA card. :








(BTW Mike when the frig am I getting my sarcasm smiley)


----------



## GAP (24 Oct 2006)

If anyone wants to read up on what was proposed 4-5 years ago....that's a gas, as in natural gas, pipeline to Pakistan and then on to India. They can't get the backers to put any money into it because of the Taliban threat in Afghanistan.


----------



## probum non poenitet (24 Oct 2006)

I think it's time to start the conspiracy that World War II was fought so the U.S. could build Euro-Disney.

Just spitballin' ---


----------



## career_radio-checker (24 Oct 2006)

probum non poenitet said:
			
		

> I think it's time to start the conspiracy that World War II was fought so the U.S. could build Euro-Disney.



*Gasp* I knew it! :


----------



## Danjanou (24 Oct 2006)

probum non poenitet said:
			
		

> I think it's time to start the conspiracy that World War II was fought so the U.S. could build Euro-Disney.
> 
> Just spitballin' ---



That would explain this place too

http://www.tokyodisneyresort.co.jp/index_e.html


----------



## Edward Campbell (26 Oct 2006)

There may be a Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline (TAP) but it will not being going South and West to the USA.

This, reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act, is from today’s (16 Oct 06) _Globe and Mail_:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061026.wchinakaza1026/BNStory/Business/  





> China's CITIC bids for Kazakhstan assets of Nations Energy
> 
> ELAINE KURTENBACH
> Associated Press
> ...



Another mess-up for the knee-jerk anti-American, _no blood for oil_ conspiracy theorists.  Some day they’ll look in the mirror and quote Pogo: _“We have met the enemy and he is us.”_


----------



## darcy175 (26 Oct 2006)

i was walking down a hallway at my school when on a table was a stack of flyers. the title read, Support Our Troops....Bring Them Home. i read the flyer and on 28 October in various cities across Canada there are anti-Afghanistan rallies scheduled. 
personally as a reservist wanting to do a tour, after school i don't see eye to eye with some of the people. is it that they don't understand? or are they just being ignorant? i know most of the soldiers i have talked to on the topic are all for helping the Afghan people, and yes we are encountering resistance which in some cases are deadly, but as members of the CF, we know that risk. i guess the reason why I'm writing this is because i am fed up with people taking the easy way out. if we were not helping the Afghan people, who would. certainly not the taliban. Canada for so long has been the "peacekeepers" and never had a government to support a mission where we have been needed to fight, until now. if anyone else wants to share their views on this, be it positive or negative feel free. The website for the rallies, as posted on the flyer i saw is http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Oct28Events.htm
Regards
Tyrus


----------



## Remius (26 Oct 2006)

Bah, I see a big fizzle for Ottawa.  It's on a Saturday.  Forecast is for cold and rain.


----------



## dglad (26 Oct 2006)

As usual, the problem with these often-well intentioned peace activists is that they offer no realistic alternatives.  This, more than anything, is what has undermined their cause for years (certainly through the Cold War).  They are a "protest industry" that succeeds (to varying degrees) in getting masses of people out to photogenic rallies and marches, but does little else.  The result is complaint withhout anything better to offer.  If, for example, these organizations were to get their way and Canada withdrew from Afghanistan...then what?  Such a crack in the NATO effort could spread, more countries could withdraw...and then?  Indeed, the result would be a "made in Afghanistan" resolution to the situation, free of "international meddling" or "imperialism" or whatever you want to call it.  The Taliban would try to reassert control, resistance to same would arise from other quarters, horrific sectarian violence would ensue, probably igniting into full-fledged civil war, leading to displacement, disease and famine.  Certainly, there would be no happy outcomes in the near-term.

I do agree that development and reconstruction efforts need to receive more emphasis.  It may be necessary to accept more risk and accelerate such efforts even in the absence of complete stability and security (the rationale being that development and reconstruction efforts are, themselves, "force multipliers").  But to simply say, well, this ain't working, time to bail, would be a criminally irresponsible thing to do to the Afghan people.


----------



## Brad Sallows (26 Oct 2006)

But if we bail and in general reduce the activities of the CF, it means more money for social programs.


----------



## couchcommander (27 Oct 2006)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> But if we bail and in general reduce the activities of the CF, it means more money for social programs social problem industry.



Ooppps, what happened there?  ;D


----------



## logos (27 Oct 2006)

Interesting, a member of the canadian peace alliance was just interviewed on CBC (approx. 06:25 MT). He said that many Canadian soldiers support his organization and will be speaking at his events tomorrow.... I wonder if there is any truth to this. I guess we will find out tomorrow.


----------



## vonGarvin (27 Oct 2006)

Yes.  We will find out tomorrow.  For a serving soldier to speak publically on any political issues, I believe that there are regulations that apply.


----------



## Danjanou (27 Oct 2006)

logos said:
			
		

> Interesting, a member of the Canadian peace alliance was just interviewed on CBC (approx. 06:25 MT). He said that many Canadian soldiers support his organization and will be speaking at his events tomorrow.... I wonder if there is any truth to this. I guess we will find out tomorrow.
> 
> ::



It's Brad they got to him and turned him into a Pod Person  



			
				Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> But if we bail and in general reduce the activities of the CF, it means more money for social programs.



Seriously I'll bet its the infamous "Afghan War Resistor", the numpty former Reservist O/Cdt who didn't want to do the obstacle course on his Phase training and Rut'd and was discharged. he's now the darling of the Ndippers and the rest of the Birkenstock brigade.


----------



## vonGarvin (27 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Seriously I'll bet its the infamous "Afghan War Resistor", the numpty former Reservist O/Cdt who didn't want to do the obstacle course on his Phase training and Rut'd and was discharged. he's now the darling of the Ndippers and the rest of the Birkenstock brigade.


I wouldn't bet against that.  I think you are right.


----------



## Danjanou (27 Oct 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> I wouldn't bet against that.  I think you are right.



Hey Alte Hauptmann I’m not just a pretty face around here. 8)

For those in the Toronto area, I’ve decided to have my morning Timmies and read the paper in close proximity to tomorrow’s festivities. There are a couple of war memorials on University Ave and while I don’t know where this farce er parade will end up, the Cenotaph is at City Hall and the newly opened Veterans Memorial is at Queens Parks tow possible locations within easy marching distance.

While I doubt that anything will happen as most of these people are passive and respectful, misguided certainly, not usually violent.  However it has been my experience that large gatherings often attract the more rowdy fringe elements (The OCAP demos for example) and there has been concerns raised elsewhere here re the possible desecration of one of our (as in Canadian’s a whole, not just military) memorials.

Anyone of a like mind PM me for the RV location.


----------



## vonGarvin (27 Oct 2006)

Danajounou:
You're bang on about the majority of those in the farce  parade: mostly peaceful, if perhaps misguided.  No problems.  BUT, there are those who would sabotage their message by being violent at a march that is supposed to be against violence.  Nice.  It's like the "No Blood for Oil" protesters driving SUVs to the protest and home again...


----------



## Edward Campbell (27 Oct 2006)

Just a reminder, folks: http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/26-Canadian-Peace-Alliance-and-Supporters-Mislead-Canada.html

Those who might, carefully, peacefully, respectfully and above all lawfully _engage_ the Canadian Peace Alliance and its fellow travellers could do a lot worse than to sing, all together, from Ruxted's hymn book.


----------



## Danjanou (27 Oct 2006)

Thanks for the reminder there Edward. Copies being made now, I'm thinking a nice pink and or orange coloured paper will be pleasing to the eye >


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (27 Oct 2006)

Von G is correct, but we must remember that there is a minority in these groups that is decidedly of a violent turn.  We've seen the type:  mask wearing, petrol bomb tossing terrorist wannabes.  

As Edward hints at, the violent element within the "peace" groups would like nothing more than to have a confrontation with a group of soldiers or our supporters.  Let 'em do their thing, secure in your knowledge that they're able to do so because of your efforts and the efforts of our forebearers.


----------



## George Wallace (27 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reminder there Edward. Copies being made now, I'm thinking a nice pink and or orange coloured paper will be pleasing to the eye >



Go with the Orange.  Humour the NDP'ers in the crowd.  They may not notice it as being counter to their cause, until they have read it, giving you ample time to find a comfortable place to observe their reactions.   ;D


----------



## Danjanou (27 Oct 2006)

Actually the Pink looks better. I'm also thinking at a distance it looks like the sort of flyer that they may hand out themselves  >

Teddy is right for anyone intend on attending this, no confrontation is the watchword. For my part I (and my telephoto lens) am there to observe, nothing more. No intention of getting involved in any potential fracas.

 Hmmm maybe I should wear a blue hat. ;D


----------



## darcy175 (27 Oct 2006)

i wouldnt mind going to see what non-sense they are talking about, and to see what numpty celebrity shows up, but i have better things to do like a weekend ex with my unit.  i really dont see why people go to extremes. you dont see too many Pro war rallies. we(CF) do our job, take the flack from the press, groups like the peace alliance and so on and do we complain about it (with the exception of army.ca of course) but publicly, no. we honourably do our job and when its done its done. the peace alliance only sees what they want to see, and tries to assimilate as many people that they can for their cause. ive sort of calmed down a bit, so when i get riled up again, ill be back. cheers
Tyrus


----------



## North Star (27 Oct 2006)

Those of you watching the protests please provide a follow-up. If the media reports on it, it would be interesting to see if the stories match up with the reality. 

Also, I love conspiracy theories. George W. Bush oil and the Nazis at the South Pole using flying saucers are my favorites.


----------



## McG (27 Oct 2006)

Edward Campbell said:
			
		

> Just a reminder, folks: http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/26-Canadian-Peace-Alliance-and-Supporters-Mislead-Canada.html


Has the news media seen this?


----------



## dglad (27 Oct 2006)

North Star said:
			
		

> Those of you watching the protests please provide a follow-up. If the media reports on it, it would be interesting to see if the stories match up with the reality.



I'd also be interested to know if the usual mixture of messages shows up.  This is another interesting aspect of these rallies that, again, tends to undermine their cause-du-jour; what starts as a peace rally at the front of the parade soons gives way to more and more unrelated messages--gay rights, the plight of the homeless, increased minimum wage, employment equity, global warming, species-at-risk, anti-GATT, etc., etc.  By the time the end of the assembly has passed by, you've seen something of every "socially conscious" cause displayed in one or another.  Talk about a "lack of unity of thought and purpose"....


----------



## kincanucks (27 Oct 2006)

Well they plan a protest across the street from me so perhaps I should print a few copies of the Ruxted Group editorial and hand them out.


----------



## Mike Baker (27 Oct 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Atlantic/061027/t102728.html
Guess nothing really came together  ;D


----------



## armyvern (27 Oct 2006)

You know what I find hilarious about all this?

Read the thread title very carefully...

Perhaps those idiots are starting their daylight savings time early. The National Day of Protest is TOMORROW, Saturday 28th October, upon the 5th anniversary of the so-called "Invasion" of Afghanistan.


Numpties...every one of them. 

http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/26-Canadian-Peace-Alliance-and-Supporters-Mislead-Canada.html
Reproduced yet again under the fairdealings copyright provisions...



> The Canadian Peace Alliance (CPA) ( http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/ ) plans to hold a series of demonstrations on 28 Oct 06 as a “Call for Action.” The CPA has a right to express its views; it has no right to manufacture ‘facts’ to support them....blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda


----------



## vonGarvin (27 Oct 2006)

Mike_Baker said:
			
		

> http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Atlantic/061027/t102728.html
> Guess nothing really came together  ;D


They still got their coverage.  I mean, come on!  THIS is news?  A non-event is news?  We've had announcements today on soldiers being decorated for valour in combat, and still the Birkenstock Brigade makes news, but real bonafide heroes don't.
(As of 2112 AST, nothing yet on CBC)


----------



## armyvern (27 Oct 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> They still got their coverage.  I mean, come on!  THIS is news?  A non-event is news?  We've had announcements today on soldiers being decorated for valour in combat, and still the Birkenstock Brigade makes news, but real bonafide heroes don't.
> (As of 2112 AST, nothing yet on CBC)


Garvinator...It's tomorrow...see below.


----------



## vonGarvin (27 Oct 2006)

Seen.  I mean the anti-recruiting thing was for today (for some reason?)  I don't know.  Anyway, still, nothing on the cbc re: the announcement...

"Garvinator"...you MUST be at home and getting coached by 9er Minor 

;D


----------



## armyvern (27 Oct 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> Seen.  I mean the anti-recruiting thing was for today (for some reason?)  I don't know.  Anyway, still, nothing on the cbc re: the announcement...
> 
> "Garvinator"...you MUST be at home and getting coached by 9er Minor
> 
> ;D



I am indeed at home for the weekend. He misses you!!


----------



## vonGarvin (27 Oct 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> I am indeed at home for the weekend. He misses you!!


:rofl:  I'm sure he does!  Just tell him to get a paint brush out, he'll feel better

HAHAHHAHAHAHA


----------



## armyvern (27 Oct 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> :rofl:  I'm sure he does!  Just tell him to get a paint brush out, he'll feel better
> 
> HAHAHHAHAHAHA


Uhhhhh NOT!!


----------



## Justacivvy (27 Oct 2006)

Interested to know who's gonna show up for a counter demostration in vancouver  >


----------



## Pearson (28 Oct 2006)

I need a shower. Just came home from the Halifax event. I don't know what they were expecting, but I would say it went over like a fart in church. At *MOST* 200 people, that includes the police that were in attendance. Oh yes, and some guy from the North End named Virgil, who plugged in his guitar and played a few songs to "Change the mood" of the gathering. One confused person was walking around with a "Hands off Venezuela " placard..?? I did not know we hand our hands on. 

Half of those in attendance were the typical crowd, street folk with their doggies, they had a couple 5 gallon pails set up for rice and something else, to make pita pockets.  :-X CUPE rep something Mccracken  was there, missed his first name, could have been Phil, gave his speech on how organized labour is behind the peace movement. One comment stood out, he was getting rousing applause on all his talking points, save one.

 "I am getting sick of seeing these support the troops bumper stickers!" resulted in a rousing round of applause. "We can support the troops without supporting the mission! I mean we all support the troops, right?" A little patter of applause followed that. 

And with that report from the Halifax event, off to shower, and no, I did not mingle, stood up on the stairs having a Timmies and rolling my eyes with the police in attendance.


----------



## kincanucks (28 Oct 2006)

Counted one guy with a guitar, two dogs and four or five people at the one in Fredericton around 1300 hrs and I don't think many more showed up later as it was cold and windy here.  Soldiers fight and die in all kinds of weather and conditions and peace protesters only come out in numbers when it is warm.


----------



## a78jumper (28 Oct 2006)

Frankie said:
			
		

> .  :-X CUPE rep something Mccracken  was there, missed his first name, could have been Phil, gave his speech on how organized labour is behind the peace movement. One comment stood out, he was getting rousing applause on all his talking points, save one.
> 
> "I am getting sick of seeing these support the troops bumper stickers!" resulted in a rousing round of applause. "We can support the troops without supporting the mission! I mean we all support the troops, right?" A little patter of applause followed that.



One of the main reasons I quit a high paying municipal job last March-forced CUPE membership. Bunch of left wing nuts.


----------



## Pte_Martin (28 Oct 2006)

Article Found here http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061028/afghanistan_protests_061028/20061028?hub=TopStories 

This article is just like the others all they do is keep bringing up the deaths and they never say anything good on what the CF is doing over there. That's what really Pisses me off. Also in this one they say *"Canadian Officer Cadet Francisco Juarez will be speaking at the Toronto rally. Juarez is the first Canadian to resign from the armed forces to protest the war in Afghanistan."  * Now they using him as a advocate, he couldn't even finish Basic, how would he know what's going on in the CF let alone in Afghanistan. When are the papers/media going to realize the sources they are using are horribly wrong. And when are they going to start listening to the people who contact them and tell them they are wrong?


----------



## The Bread Guy (28 Oct 2006)

Hell, even getting his status right (at most gracious, "former Officer Cadet") would be a start....

Dropped the CTV "Feedback" link a question about what he's nor mentioned as a former Officer Cadet - not expecting a response, but at least they know someone's reading.


----------



## paracowboy (28 Oct 2006)

paracowboy demands Protesters withdrawal from Canada

paracowboy demands media withdraw their heads from the asses


----------



## Bobbyoreo (28 Oct 2006)

Jack just took the stage....wow...never..ever wanted to reach thru the screen so bad to give him a good old throat punch..is that wrong?

I'd love to know how all of these people know the money trail for the reconstruction ..how is it that THEY know it never leaves the states? Is there a secret man who tells them the truth and lies to everyone else? You could see that most of the people were people just walking by that wanted to find out what was going on...


----------



## McG (28 Oct 2006)

I see CTV is suggesting "thousands" have made it out to these rallies while the Toronto Sun is only talking of "hundreds" (Specifically "Nearly 500 people gathered marched in Montreal" and "About 200 people carrying Canadian flags and waving placards demonstrated in Halifax").  I wonder which it is?

Edit: I see that CBC is using the Sun's numbers.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (28 Oct 2006)

> Dropped the CTV "Feedback" link a question about what he's nor mentioned as a former Officer Cadet - not expecting a response, but at least they know someone's reading.



I did the same, and questioned their use of the term "thousands".


----------



## Bobbyoreo (28 Oct 2006)

Just watched the update on CTV they said only a few hundred showed up for the rally and not the thousand or so they expected.


----------



## Mike Baker (28 Oct 2006)

> Layton told CTV Newsnet that Canadians are not protesting to discourage the troops, but rather to support them.


So, basicly he is saying that we like you and all but we dont want you to do you'r job and save a nation from the ruthless violence of the Taliban. Crazy.


----------



## westernarmymember (28 Oct 2006)

I have also contacted CTV's feedback to express my discontent with their "slanted" reporting of the facts. Shameful.  :-X


----------



## Bobbyoreo (28 Oct 2006)

Me as well!!!


----------



## kratz (28 Oct 2006)

Interestingly enough, CTV.ca  has already amended their coverage of this story and are now referring to Mr. Juarez as a "former military cadet". Keep writing into their feedback section if it will aid in getting the correct story out there.


----------



## McG (28 Oct 2006)

[quote author=CTV]Toronto rally leader Sid Lacombe told CTV Newsnet the Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is only "propping up the U.S. military position."[/quote]

It seems he has not read from the Ruxted Group:
http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/26-Canadian-Peace-Alliance-and-Supporters-Mislead-Canada.html

Show us the connection Mr Lacombe, because I think its been disproved.


----------



## Sub_Guy (28 Oct 2006)

Me too!  I also sent an email off to nowar.ca reminding them who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for freedom, which allows them to spread their word unopposed, and that we are there to provide the same freedoms to the afghan people.  Sure we can hug and talk it out, but sometimes that approach doesn't work, it wasn't working with the taliban.  I doubt it would have worked with Hitler too.

I really enjoyed reading protestwarrior website, that really does sound like fun.  It almost makes me want to fire up the Kia and head into Victoria.


----------



## HDE (28 Oct 2006)

Getting out "hundreds of people" in the Greater Toronto Area, population of about 4 million, isn't exactly a rousing show of support :.    Most of us "lefties" in organized labour skipped, which really does make it all the sweeter ;D


----------



## George Wallace (28 Oct 2006)

So?  Did anyone get counted in as one of their numbers, while handing out pamphlets with the Ruxted Editorial on them?  Did anyone capture photos of these large crowds of demonstrators?


----------



## couchcommander (28 Oct 2006)

They just got to the park across from my apartment... resisting the urge to boo them loudly.


----------



## McG (28 Oct 2006)

couchcommander said:
			
		

> They just got to the park across from my apartment... resisting the urge to boo them loudly.


Go find the media & hand them a Ruxted print-out.


----------



## westernarmymember (28 Oct 2006)

Just watched Newsnet and they used the term "hundreds" followed by "a few hundred". They like to keep it vague so as not to temper the story by saying nobody actually showed up.


----------



## Mike Baker (28 Oct 2006)

couchcommander said:
			
		

> They just got to the park across from my apartment... resisting the urge to boo them loudly.


Boo them, I would, but there are less then 200 people here in my town to have a rally, and most people here support the troops, and do not want to bring them home when their job isn't done.


----------



## FastEddy (28 Oct 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So?  Did anyone get counted in as one of their numbers, while handing out pamphlets with the Ruxted Editorial on them?  Did anyone capture photos of these large crowds of demonstrators?




There's about 200 here in Montreal (in the pouring rain) at Dominion Sq., then they are going to March along St. Catherine.

Traffic reports suggest you avoid the area.

Strange these idiot's can interupt traffic, but the RHR Blackwatch shouldn't have  Marched  on Sherbrooke St on their Church Parade. (yes we all know the BS Bylaw concerning that).

Cheers.


----------



## George Wallace (28 Oct 2006)

Just saw Taliban Jack being interviewed on CTV and he went on to say that the Government should listen to the majority of Canadians and pull out of Afghanistan.  Funny how the numbers showing up for Red Friday's support rallies are larger than this one.  I guess Jack must have failed math in school........oh!  Sorry, he learned the 'New Math'.....(Turn on Bill Cosby Noah voice) Right!!!!!!!


----------



## McG (28 Oct 2006)

He has also missed this poll: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52464.0.html

It seems Canadians are ready to support war.  Go figure.


----------



## couchcommander (28 Oct 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> Go find the media & hand them a Ruxted print-out.



Oh done and done.

Rather than boo-them, I figured I do something more productive. 45 minutes, a radio interview (the only station there), and about 40 ruxted editorials later, here are those pictures you wanted. The ruxted editorials were indeed really useful for the lazy amongst us.

*edit* heh, you can actually see one of the radio guys (and girl) standing in the background reading the editorial I gave them a minute ago (back right).


----------



## couchcommander (28 Oct 2006)

Additional images to give a more complete idea of the crowd size.


----------



## Danjanou (28 Oct 2006)

Well there’s a wet Saturday afternoon that I could have put to better use like doing laundry.

The usual suspects showed up and chanted and ranted. Then strolled off up University Ave and I headed for Timmies. Not before a little sabotage of course. I realised handing out the Ruxted Editiorials would have caused a bit of a confrontation so I just discreetly slipped them into piles of the normal Marxist Leftist crap being doled out. They probably got canned the minute they realised what they were, but you never know.

I caught up to them at Moss Park where of course one mouth breather had to draw a similarity to the troops in Afghanistan and the beating death of a homeless person in the park by the armouries for which a couple of Reservists have been charged.

Anyway I took quite a few shots but I won’t waste all of Mike’s bandwidth so here’s a few:





































And my personal favourite





Missed the former failed O/Cdt, like I said I have priorities in life and a large double double seemed more important. ;D


----------



## couchcommander (28 Oct 2006)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I realised handing out the Ruxted Editiorials would have caused a bit of a confrontation



Not in the slightest here. Got some funny looks, pointing, and talking quietly in groups after they realized what it was, but that was about it. I concentrated on the people walking by, media, and those who weren't holding death to bush signs, etc (possible curious on-lookers).


----------



## George Wallace (28 Oct 2006)

couchcommander said:
			
		

> *edit* heh, you can actually see one of the radio guys (and girl) standing in the background reading the editorial I gave them a minute ago (back right).



Excellent!   ;D  And the photo of the Press reading it (and at the looks of it, discussing it too) was fantastic...... ;D


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## xmarcx (28 Oct 2006)

The Ottawa protest was about 100-150 people, and probably half as many police officers! I have to say the OPS and the RCMP in this town know exactly what they are doing. They had officers everywhere the protesters might march and controlled it expertly. They didn't have any speakers of note, just a bunch of career agitators who organize just about every single protest in this city. Afghanistan today, bottled water tomorrow, you name it and they enjoy writing it on signs. It fizzled out a few minutes after they reached the steps of Parliament and everyone wandered home. The few tourists that were out didn't give them the time of day!


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## vonGarvin (28 Oct 2006)

Danjounou:
From on of your photos, looks like *maybe* a couple of hundred there.  Is that in Toronto?


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## Edward Campbell (28 Oct 2006)

I just watched the local news here in Ottawa.

It looks like more people came out in Kingston, ON, in the rain, to honour the entire military garrison which was granted the Freedom of the City than participated in *all* the demonstrations by the unwashed, the uneducated and the unprincipled in all 37 cities.

If Canadian journalists had any ethical standards or even a tiny shred of responsibility towards the truth they would tell Canadians that Jack Layton, Francisco Juarez,  Sid Lacombe and all these dimwits *failed*, failed miserably to garner any significant support for their stupid _bring the troops home_ proposal.  Instead our _journalists_ slavishly follow the loony-left’s _party line_; what a sad excuse for a profession.


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## Danjanou (28 Oct 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> Danjounou:
> From on of your photos, looks like *maybe* a couple of hundred there.  Is that in Toronto?



Yeah 200-250 tops. I was there on and off for about an hour at the initial rally site and people kept cominhg and going for coffee. Of that number I'd say 10-15% were press too, maybe higher. Numbers dropped off after they  marched away. By the time they reached moss park ( the shot I took from a roof top) much they were less than 200 I'd estimate. :


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## darmil (28 Oct 2006)

My wife is in college at Grant MacEwan taking her BA here in Edmonton.Thewww.ecawar.orghad set up a booth at her school about todays march.She brought home a flyer they where handing out.I want to upload it so you guys can read the damn thing ,but I don't know how to. I've scanned it just waiting to post it can anybody help.


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## McG (28 Oct 2006)

Press the reply button at the bottom of each page.  Then click the "additional options" below the comment window.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (28 Oct 2006)

Global National is reporting "thousands" of marchers tonight, complete with plenty of low-angle shots that hide how big the "crowds" actually are.


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## Danjanou (28 Oct 2006)

CTV said 500 in Toronto, which is a lot closer than the 800 CBC reported. I'm willing to up my estimate from 250 to 300 tops and that's being generous. Of course what do I know, I was there. :


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## gnplummer421 (28 Oct 2006)

Sounds like the rally was a bust pretty much everywhere. Sure wasn't anywhere's near the amount of people that showed their support in Ottawa in favour of the mission. That was good to see. Most Canadians are still on the good side then. 

Gnplummer421


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## Old Sweat (28 Oct 2006)

In a day with worse weather than hit either Ottawa or Toronto, last week 500 people showed up in Kemptville, a small town south of Ottawa, to honour the memory of Private Blake Williamson. He was kia on 14 October, the second fatal casualty - the other was Randy Payne - in the United Counties of Leeds-Grenville, plus at least one wia.


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## vonGarvin (28 Oct 2006)

From CTV newsnet, they showed a pile of signs.  The majority that I saw said "Hands off Iran and North Korea".  WTF?  Oh, and naturally there was a Palestinian flag.  I don't get it, I really don't.


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## gnplummer421 (28 Oct 2006)

These protesters remind me of a saying, goes something like "The blind leading the blind" :brickwall:

Gnplummer421


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## The Bread Guy (28 Oct 2006)

It's easy to figure out the protesters' philosophy, actually - like the anti-nuke movement during the cold war, if the USA does it, it's bad; if someone does the same thing as the USA (no matter whether it's worthwhile, or for different reasons), it's bad, too; the opponents (the Soviets, the Palestinians, Iran, North Korea, whoever) are the hard done by, only doing things defensively because of the USA.


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## NL_engineer (28 Oct 2006)

I bet half of these people think we are in Iraq (got asked that question today).  Or then again I bet half the people out there think that Iraq and Afghanistan are the same place   .


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## MEV (28 Oct 2006)

Even though I shouldn't be surprised... I still am amazed at the incredible naïveté of the media and therefore the people that watch and listen to the so-called journalists. All the people that won't get off their duffers and help any one in need. But they are only willing to sit in their arm chair, watch TV and then make their opinions based on what they see on the tube !

D-uh!   :brickwall:


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## tasop_999 (29 Oct 2006)

The media is not as stupid and ill-informed as some people think.  They are the ones who dictate the policy direction in this country through their coverage of specific issues.  Lately, Afghanistan has become a hot issue because they have made it so.  In the next election campaign, look for more people to become vocally against A-stan because they know they will get on the 6 o'clock news.  Johnny and Susy Six-Pack will watch the news with their 1.6 kids and be influenced to ask questions of their government or vote against the governing party.  The media has already had their effect because everyone is talking about A-stan, even though things seem to be fairly quiet there at the moment.


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## kilekaldar (29 Oct 2006)

Protesters demand withdrawal from Afghanistan
Updated Sat. Oct. 28 2006 11:20 PM ET

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061028/afghanistan_protests_061028/20061028?hub=TopStories

CTV.ca News Staff

Groups of people rallied in cities and communities across Canada on Saturday, demanding the withdrawal of this country's troops from the NATO-led military mission in Afghanistan. 

"Troops out now!" was a common chant by demonstrators across the country. Many seemed opposed to the fact Canada was involved in combat in Afghanistan, rather than carrying out a traditional peacekeeping mission.

There were nearly 200 people protesting and waving placards in Halifax, almost 500 marching in Montreal and 600 in Vancouver. 

CTV News' Denelle Balfour reported there were several hundred people attending the Toronto rally, which gathered outside the downtown U.S. consulate.

Speaking from the Toronto rally, NDP Leader Jack Layton told CTV Newsnet that Canadians are not protesting to discourage the troops, but rather to support them. 

"We are raising these questions to support our troops," Layton said. "Our job as citizens is to make sure we're asking them to do the right thing in the world ... there is a sense that this mission is the wrong mission for Canada and that it is not helping to achieve the goals we all have in mind for Afghanistan."

With a report from CTV's Denelle Balfour and files from The Canadian Press


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## captjtq (29 Oct 2006)

Some of us over here saw it on the news... the common reaction to those interviews was chuckling and head-shaking.  Can't take those folks too seriously.


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## McG (29 Oct 2006)

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=874d69c4-5476-4e3a-ada3-12032dea7c3b&k=59344


> At least 500 anti-war protesters demonstrated in Vancouver. Meanwhile, another 100 activists marched in Edmonton.
> 
> “The Canadian government should recognize the right of the people to make democracy by themselves,” said Hosein Taghaddos, 26, a University of Alberta student who participated in the protest march. “They don’t have any right to occupy other regions in the name of democracy.”


Okay.  Does the democratically elected government of Afghanistan not have a right to ask for international help?  Should we tell them to go pound salt?  Do we not have an obligation to rebuild the nation that we previously were at war with?


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## Trinity (29 Oct 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=874d69c4-5476-4e3a-ada3-12032dea7c3b&k=59344Okay.  Does the democratically elected government of Afghanistan not have a right to ask for international help?  Should we tell them to go pound salt?  Do we not have an obligation to rebuild the nation that we previously were at war with?



See if your a protester, it sounds legit.

If you type that garbage on the site... it's called being a troll.

*not you MCG... the quote from your post i'm referring too


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## McG (29 Oct 2006)

cheers.


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## canadianblue (29 Oct 2006)

In the end, we could be doing 100% humanitarian aid and the fact that members are slinging C7's will be enough for people to protest. I've tried asking myself why they are so against us but its useless. People will always feel this need to oppose what we do, mostly out of ignorance and stupidity. Why do so many people protest, because they like to believe that everything the west does in some way is for a "hidden agenda". People feel a need to protest about something they feel is a "worthy cause" even though its out of ignorance more then anything. They liken this to Vietnam, even though its nothing like Vietnam.

Does anybody else understand what I'm saying, I'm confusing myself even?


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## The Bread Guy (29 Oct 2006)

In one of the CTV online stories, I found this interesting tidbit (and in no other media account I've looked at):

"However, the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute released a poll Saturday that found 55 per cent of Canadians support dangerous missions for the military if they believe the objectives are just."

Checked the CDFAI site, but nothing there yet - maybe tomorrow?

Also, I'm hearing the statement "37 cities" on a lot of media accounts.  I wonder how many media outlets have a list of the cities?  Hmm....


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## McG (29 Oct 2006)

Canadians are ready to support war: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52464.0.html


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## Klc (29 Oct 2006)

> *Protesters urge end to Afghan mission*
> 
> Last Updated: Saturday, October 28, 2006 | 8:57 PM ET
> CBC News
> ...



Is this the same joker from before, or another master of the BS? (Mr. Juarez)


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## armyvern (29 Oct 2006)

Klc said:
			
		

> Is this the same joker from before, or another master of the BS? (Mr. Juarez)



Same one...on about 22 minutes of fame now


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## Pte_Martin (29 Oct 2006)

The first major deployment of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan was in February 2002. Canada's military contingent there now numbers more than 2,000; *43 soldiers have been killed * and more than 200 injured in the campaign.
with files from the Canadian Press

LAst time i checked there were only 42 soldiers killed, they can't even get there facts right


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## McG (29 Oct 2006)

Klc said:
			
		

> Is this the same joker from before, or another master of the BS? (Mr. Juarez)


Yes: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50044.0.html


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## zipperhead_cop (30 Oct 2006)

Me, I support lefties bleeding hearts.  

Mind you, I prefer when they are on the ground about three feet _behind_ the exit wound, but anyway you can get them there is fine.  

Hmm? It means something else?   ???


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## Zell_Dietrich (30 Oct 2006)

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Me, I support lefties bleeding hearts.
> 
> Mind you, I prefer when they are on the ground about three feet _behind_ the exit wound, but anyway you can get them there is fine.



*smile* But I'm a tree hugging, demand side economics supporting, socially progressive leftie.  Why would you ever want to hurt me?

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2006/10/29/2165324-sun.html
"In Toronto, several hundred people huddled outside the U.S. Consulate as NDP Leader Jack Layton repeated his call for Canadian troops to be brought home."

I live not to far from University Ave where the "protest" was.  From my experience if there were less than a thousand people on the street in front of the consulate in the middle of the day it is “easy walking”. This is the city where two thousand people will show up just to be outside Much Music when a Christmas tree is being thrown from the building. The NDP membership in Toronto Center is 2000+ and in Trinity /Spadina they have comparable numbers. (plus the other ridings that are nearby)   It means that they couldn’t even get out 20% of their card carrying members that live within a 30 minute walk of the event! 

“Few show up for anti-war protests”
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/537264.html

I hate to read to much into things,  but I think the Canadian people have listened to the position of the anti-war crowd and responded with all the energy that their position deserves,  deafening silence.


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## Bobbyoreo (30 Oct 2006)

Yea its the same one


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## 3rd Herd (30 Oct 2006)

Well if turn out is an indicator of support either for or against the war, Calgary had approximately 100 against the war and 250 plus for supporting the troops given the figures quoted in the Calgary Herald comparing attendance at both rallies.


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## glock17 (30 Oct 2006)

If they want more visable support at their little events, they better start cooking with cheese! :blotto:


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## bcbarman (30 Oct 2006)

"What if they gave a war and no body came?" -unknown (I think it was John Lennon, could not find it on google)

"What if they gave a War protest and nobody came?" BCbarman, looking at the empty park on the 28th.


Was at the planned Banff rally on the 28th, granted, I was 20 min late, but the park was empty.  No protesters, no tourists, no cops.  Come on, nobody???

Apathy is a good thing, if we could only get it organized.


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## a_majoor (30 Oct 2006)

More about the "Un-Protest"

http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/blog/index/weblog/printer-friendly/5762/



> *“Thousands are expected”… especially with these radio ads I mean news spots!*
> Posted by Joel Johannesen
> 
> I heard about the protests on the radio over and over.  The liberal media was all over the news of the anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-Harper, anti-conservative, anti-capitalist, anti-tuition, anti-meat-eating, anti-Afghanistan-mission, anti-work, anti-intelligence protest rallies and marches “across Canada” over the weekend.  And that was BEFORE they happened.
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (30 Oct 2006)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> I live not to far from University Ave where the "protest" was.  From my experience if there were less than a thousand people on the street in front of the consulate in the middle of the day it is “easy walking”. This is the city where two thousand people will show up just to be outside Much Music when a Christmas tree is being thrown from the building. The NDP membership in Toronto Center is 2000+ and in Trinity /Spadina they have comparable numbers. (plus the other ridings that are nearby)   It means that they couldn’t even get out 20% of their card carrying members that live within a 30 minute walk of the event!



This is an letter to the editor just aching to be sent.


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## McG (30 Oct 2006)

I caught a bid of the Kingston protest on the TV tonight.  Maybe fifty people walking down the street with the chant “support our troops bring them home” and “Stop the racist war!”  Maybe they could support the troops by not suggesting we are all racists.


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## medicineman (30 Oct 2006)

I saw those clowns when I was wondering to the KBC - it was a very small crowd.  They were but a cigarette butt on the sidewalk of life.

MM


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## a_majoor (31 Oct 2006)

Read this crosspost about the sort of people who attend the rallies: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52126/post-472206.html#msg472206


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## cplcaldwell (31 Oct 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> ... Maybe fifty people walking down the street with the chant ..._* “Stop the racist war!”*_ ...



WTF?

Proof of extra-terrestrials for sure, I mean, somebody would have to be from another planet to equate this thing with racism... the mind boggles...


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