# Turkey vs Iraq  news



## karl28 (17 Oct 2007)

I didn't see a topic on this and I hope that this is the right spot for .  Mods if it needs to be some where else please feel free to move it .  
 I sure hope that cooler heads can prevale here  very dangerous situation for all involved  .

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/17/turkey.iraq/index.html


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## Falange (17 Oct 2007)

For a while Turkey wanted to get its hands into the Iraqi Kurdistan. I think the only thing that was working as a deterrance was the pressure of the US and the EU. But after the French and Americans passed the bills declaring the Armenian Genocide as a Genocide it gave an excuse to Turkish decision makers to ignore the pressure that was put in the west to leave Kurdistan alone.


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## The Bread Guy (17 Oct 2007)

A few more places to keep abreast of the latest:

EC Media Monitor:  Turkey
Google News:  Turkey + Iraq
MSNBC Headlines:  Turkey
TUR Press Agency, English
Turkish Daily News, English
The New Anatolian, "Turkey's only independent English-Language newspaper"

TUR Embassy in USA Media Ctr
TUR Mission to UN (including statements)
Republic of Turkey Foreign Affairs Ministry (English pretty good, but beware coding problems causing scrolling headlines blocking some text)
Turkish General Staff


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## karl28 (17 Oct 2007)

Hey guys thanks for the responses  . I am just  worried about  this  getting worse I am hoping things will improve for the US and her allies in Iraq  and Afghanistan  I  would like to think that some sort of victory can be possible in the future it will take time.  I just fear that if Turkey goes through with its plan it will make a difficult situation worse .
        Also thanks for the links be interesting to read them .


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## midget-boyd91 (17 Oct 2007)

It will be a ... tense and interesting time, to say for the least, waiting to see how the Iraqi military commanders will respond if Turkey sends in forces for any long period of time. Pending the Iraqi commanders take their own command.


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## TCBF (17 Oct 2007)

- About the only thing that could bring Shia and Sunni together and unite Iraq would be a Turkish invasion.

- Hmmnnnn...


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## retiredgrunt45 (18 Oct 2007)

> About the only thing that could bring Shia and Sunni together and unite Iraq would be a Turkish invasion



It probably would, but it also would start something much more sinister that would get out of control in a hurry.


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## 1feral1 (18 Oct 2007)

Meanwhile, another excuse to put oil up close to $90US a barrel, and you know what that means, the price goes up at the bowser for us all, no matter where we live in the western world.


Wes


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## Falange (19 Oct 2007)

If Turkey goes ahead with an all out incurssion I do not expect the Iraqi army doing that much. The most probable outcome will be the Iraqi government bargaining with the Turkish in order to reach a deal that would minimize their stay within Iraqi borders. Also, It is quite probable that the Iraqis will demand the US and Britain to put more pressure on Turkey so it backs off.  Currently the Iraqi military is underfunded and overstretched and it really does not have neither the capabilities nor the time to deal with Turkey at the present time. Moreover, if the iraqis decided to go to Kurdistan and try to deter or confront the Turkish, it would give a window of opportunity to insurgents of both sects to weaken the government. This would never unite Sunnis and Shias as they do not care that much about the Kurds, however an overstretched government would allow the most extreme groups to consolidate power at different levels. It is pretty much a zero sum game between the government and sectarian groups. Therefore, it is quite likely to see this conflict being solve through diplomatic means rather than coercive force. Plus the US is a big factor and they would not like to see two of their regional friends just going after each other.


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## karl28 (21 Oct 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071021/turkey_attack_071021/20071021?hub=TopStories

Hey guys thought I post this update on this story was on the CTV website .


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## karl28 (22 Oct 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071021/turkey_convoy_071022/20071022?hub=World

      Found this on CTV and thought that I would post it here for any one interested


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## Falange (23 Oct 2007)

```
Turkey wins Iraq backing on PKK  
  
Turkey has said it will use military means if diplomacy fails


Gordon Brown  
Turkey and Iraq have agreed to work together to deal with the problem of Kurdish PKK rebels in northern Iraq. 
Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan said Ankara would put the emphasis on diplomatic means to solve the crisis. 

Mr Babacan rejected any ceasefire with the PKK, saying this was not possible with a "terrorist organisation". 

Turkey is coming under intense pressure from the public and military to use force against the PKK, after its parliament approved cross-border raids. 

 We will not allow any party or any group, including the PKK to poison our bilateral relations 

Hoshyar Zebari
Iraqi foreign minister


Turkish army's PKK challenge 
Turkey press warns over PKK  

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey had no territorial designs on Iraq but could use military force against the PKK "at any time" if Baghdad failed to act. 

"We cannot wait for ever," he said, at a news conference with UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown in London. 

Turkey, along with the US and EU, considers the PKK to be a terrorist organisation. 

In the last week, Turkey has been building up its military presence on the border with Iraq and, on the other side, PKK rebels have stepped up their attacks against Turkish troops in the region. 

The rebels claim to have captured several Turkish troops following an attack on Sunday that left 12 soldiers dead. The Turkish military has only confirmed that eight soldiers are still missing. 

The funerals of the dead are expected to take place on Tuesday. 

'Other tools' 

Mr Babacan said Turkey respected the territorial integrity of Iraq as a matter of principle, but the fight against terrorism was also a matter of principle. 


Diplomatic press on Turkey  

However, every effort would be made to avoid cross-border military action. 

"There are political dialogue, diplomacy, economic and cultural tools as well as military measures," he said after talks with Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. 

"We do not want to sacrifice our cultural and economic relations with Iraq..." 

But Mr Babacan said Turkey would not consider a ceasefire with the rebels, following reports that the PKK might agree to stop fighting. 

"Ceasefires are possible between states and regular forces - the problem here is that we're dealing with a terrorist organisation," he said. 

Mr Zebari said his country would actively help Turkey deal with the PKK "menace". 

"We agreed that the position we should take is a common position to fight terrorism wherever it is and we will not allow any party or any group, including the PKK to poison our bilateral relations," he said. 

A delegation of senior Iraqi government officials is expected to travel to Ankara in the coming days to agree on measures that are being described as practical and concrete. 

  



The talks came after the US urged Iraq to take swift action against the insurgents to forestall the threatened Turkish raids. 

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki agreed to work with the Turkish government to prevent the PKK from using Iraqi territory to plan or carry out terrorist attacks, a White House statement said. 

Ankara wants to see PKK camps closed down and the group's commanders arrested and handed over
```


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## Retired AF Guy (23 Oct 2007)

Falange said:
			
		

> If Turkey goes ahead with an all out incurssion I do not expect the Iraqi army doing that much. ....



From what I understand there are no (or very few) Iraqi Army units in the Kurdish area of Iraq. The Kurds have their own army, the Peshmerga, (Kurdish “Those Who Face Death”). They also have their own police, border patrols, immigration and passport control. 

Here is a good report by Micheal J. Totten that gives a good rundown on the situation in northern (Kurdish) Iraq: http://www.azure.org.il/magazine/magazine.asp?id=407

Totten has traveled to Kurdish Iraq on numerous occasions and his reports can be found here: http://www.michaeltotten.com/


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## karl28 (23 Oct 2007)

Retired AF Guy 

          Thanks for the links .  So basically its like the Kurds are there own country with in a country from what I gather talk about a complicated situation .
           Also Falange  thanks for the article interesting read  but where did you get it from ?  If you could post the source that would be great . I think we are susposed to do that when posting information


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## Falange (24 Oct 2007)

Sorry Karl, here is the link of the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7058733.stm
I totally assumed that I had posted it.


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## karl28 (24 Oct 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071023/turkey_talks_071024/20071024?hub=World

Falange 
     Thanks man hey no worries about that I have done the same thing .    after reading this article it seem that things might be heating up .      I think its a pretty serious situation  . I just hope that it wont make things worse for  the US and her allies in Iraq  .


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## RecDiver (24 Oct 2007)

I am not sure if you all know and/or have followed up the background to this conflict. Here is my very brief background....

Last 15 years or so, the terrorist organization PKK has killed about 30,000 civilians, police and soldiers. They are ruthless in their campaign to create havoc. 

With the help of CIA their leader Apo was caught and is being held in a military prison. Unfortunately he has not been executed due to pressure from EU. I personally would have preferred him hang in front of the mothers or fathers of his victims. 

Just in 3 weeks they have stopped a van and executed 12 people in the van. They have bombed a wedding party killing a child and injuring 17 party goers. They ambushed and killed dozen young soldiers and captured 8 and took them back to Iraq.

I think if the casualties were of western background, their safe heaven mountain hideouts like Cudi or Kanlica would have been carpet bombed like the mountains of A'tan.

Yes, there are many big plans and games being played out. The Iraq president is Kurdish and he is a very smart guy to plan events to unfold for his hidden agenda. I am just wondering out loud, how many oil contracts have already been negotiated and signed in the ripe Kurdish region and that they would love to add few more sq miles from the south east of Turkey to that deal.


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## karl28 (24 Oct 2007)

RecDiver  
            I don't think any one here is siding for the PKK .The only thing that I have been hoping for is that it doesn't make the situation in Iraq more difficult than it already is for the US and her Allies who have been doing amazing work under extremely difficult situation .
        I personally would like to see the US and her Allies win this conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan .


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## RecDiver (24 Oct 2007)

Thank you for clarifying that karl... PKK is just as bad if not worse than AQ. They are even more deeply rooted in western societies. A case in example is a known PKK supporter/ restaurant owner is being deported from US and now some political figures within US are trying to stop to stay the order. I wonder if this was a known AQ financier how would they responded...

And I believe you are correct in thinking that the current unrest at that border will raise the stakes and could shift or blurry the focus of coalition forces to an area they were not involved before. May be that's exactly what some Kurds and their supporters wanted to achieve by all of a sudden restarting their attacks inside the country. 

BTW: They (apparently about 80-100 of them) just tried to infiltrate again from Iraq to attack a border post. They were detected and pushed back. The news is saying that they carried their dead and wounded on back of trucks to hospitals near the border towns. My question is, if these people were declared as terrorists, how come they freely walk into hospitals and hand in their wounded and demand care without any consequences. Isn't Iraqi govt being two faced here?


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## karl28 (24 Oct 2007)

RecDiver  

      Hey no problem glad I could clarify my thinking on the situation for you and sorry if it was vag before  .  I just keep thinking how easily this situation could get out of hand and hope that it doesn't . I am by no mean an expert on the topic at hand   but this is something of an interest to me .    Hopefully I will not step out of my lane I just want to provide information .
               I have to agree it's also puzzling to read  from you last post on how the PKK can one minute be a terrorist group but than still get care at a gov hospital ?


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## GAP (24 Oct 2007)

Because they and the other Kurds are actually one in the same....the rest is political fiction


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## RecDiver (24 Oct 2007)

Yes unfortunately this political 'fiction' is costing lives and mega $$$ which could have been used for something better. Not to mention unstability to where it really is needed.

Lots of puzzling things going on there.... Iraq govt just declared PKK as a terrorist organization (x number of years later than USA and EU, Can etc)... but still their people are freely driving around villages...

Another interesting thing is, a Times journalist was able go to the terrorist training camps and interview all these women and men training to be bad guys and yet they cannot be located for extermination. How sad is that?


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## Falange (24 Oct 2007)

Turkish F-16 launch the first cross border air strike to different PKK positions in Iraqi Kurdistan... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7059721.stm


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## karl28 (27 Oct 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071027/turkey_kurds_071027/20071027?hub=TopStories

Just some more information on the subject for those interested .


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## tomahawk6 (4 Nov 2007)

The PKK released 8 captured Turkish soldiers. They were handed over to Iraqi authorities who in turn passed them on to the US who will see that they get back to Turkey.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071104/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turkey_soldiers


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## KevinB (4 Nov 2007)

Amazing the effect of a punitive expedition....   ;D


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## karl28 (14 Nov 2007)

tomahawk6  

Thanks for posting that good to here  and sorry for the late response been busy at work lately witch is a good thing .


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## karl28 (18 Dec 2007)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071218/turkey_soldiers_071218/20071218?hub=TopStories

Just an update from CTV news site for those interested


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