# Camp Bold Eagle



## Ex-Dragoon (20 Aug 2007)

For those that don't know, this is a program developed to get Native Canadians interested in pursuing a career in the CF. My question is, does it work. Do many of the participants of Bold Eagle sign up?


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## larry Strong (20 Aug 2007)

I know that one was just run in Wainwright.


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## Rowshambow (20 Aug 2007)

This program has been in WX for years, I know a few of the soldiers that have signed up afterwords.


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## Ex-Dragoon (20 Aug 2007)

Well we established it is in Wainwright...but the questions I asked still have not been addressed.


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## 241 (20 Aug 2007)

I just finished teaching on the 18th course, we had about a dozen or so interested in joining, and about 95% on average join either Reg or Res after the course, they have there BMQ written off (Both reg and res).  Apparently there is a Navy equivalent named Raven.  This year was, as the elders mentioned, one of the worst, of the 78 that started only 55 passed and of those only maybe a dozen would have passed had it been a regular Reg or Res BMQ.  There should be a special on the Bold Eagle Program on W5 and APTN sometime in Sept (all footage was shot on the 06 serial)


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## 3rd Herd (20 Aug 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Well we established it is in Wainwright...but the questions I asked still have not been addressed.



I think the source Ex is to track down either the O/C or W/O for your region. I do no think they the CF have complete overall stats out yet. I know from the W/O that did the schools I taught in overall in her region it was somewhere around 35-40%. But then my school was bating 100%. Every student that went ended up in the CF. One of the biggest hold backs to CF enlistment, actually two, are education level and prior history. Because of the education requirements some may have to take up to a year and a half after "Bold Eagle" before they can successfully apply. Some have to finish terms of probation which also delays a successful application. As to the success of the program there are a few other ways of coming up with a quantitative measurement.

241,
is not the Raven program a shorter version of Bold Eagle. Here again it was an option mentioned to the students that did not want the full blown "Bold Eagle".


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## 241 (20 Aug 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> 241,
> is not the Raven program a shorter version of Bold Eagle. Here again it was an option mentioned to the students that did not want the full blown "Bold Eagle".



I am not to sure, I just found out about it the day before grad at the same time that I found out that there is *another* one out there is BC somewhere where they enroll as reg on an indefinite contract and then after 3 or 4 weeks have the option to stay on the course and stay in the regs, or leave.


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Aug 2007)

The end product wasn't very good on this end.


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## George Wallace (20 Aug 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> The end product wasn't very good on this end.



Just a comment out of the blue:

Sometimes that reflects not on the "Student's abilities to Learn" but on the "Instructor's inability to Teach".


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Aug 2007)

OR the fact the instructors were hamstrung because they were told hands off by the brass that wanted to look good.


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## George Wallace (20 Aug 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> OR the fact the instructors were hamstrung because they were told hands off by the brass that wanted to look good.



And the end result, no one looks good; the Students, the Instructors, Standards, the School, the political decision that was made, and down the line.


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Aug 2007)

agreed


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## 241 (21 Aug 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> The end product wasn't very good on this end.



Saw them around Wainwright did ya?  And it had nothing to do with our abilities to teach and everything to do with them not doing anything unless it "was fun" and dumb crap like that....


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## Scoobie Newbie (21 Aug 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> OR the fact the instructors were hamstrung because they were told hands off by the brass that wanted to look good.



MY point was that it wasn't the instructors ability to teach BUT the fact they were hamstrung by higher ups who tied the instructors hands.  IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU.  Talk about not paying attention to detail.


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## 241 (21 Aug 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> MY point was that it wasn't the instructors ability to teach BUT the fact they were hamstrung by higher ups who tied the instructors hands.  IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU.  Talk about not paying attention to detail.



I guess I worded that wrong, the first part was directed at you the second one was directed at another comment... Hows that??


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## Scoobie Newbie (21 Aug 2007)

Better


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (21 Aug 2007)

well I was in the building with the bold eagle course, that was fun!
I'm not going to get into specifics but going out to the smoking pit and being accosted to buy someone a 26 wasn't cool.


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## 241 (21 Aug 2007)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Better



Alright then.



			
				Future Unknown said:
			
		

> well I was in the building with the bold eagle course, that was fun!
> I'm not going to get into specifics but going out to the smoking pit and being accosted to buy someone a 26 wasn't cool.



Well 2 questions then: 1 Did you do it? & 2 Why didn't you say ok, get there name, so you could "get it to them" and then inform the chain of command if you where "accosted"?


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (21 Aug 2007)

241 said:
			
		

> Alright then.
> 
> Well 2 questions then: 1 Did you do it? & 2 Why didn't you say ok, get there name, so you could "get it to them" and then inform the chain of command if you where "accosted"?



Of course not, and it was near the end of my course, with all the shit that had already taken place I didn't want to be a part of it anymore, we were made to feel that anything we said or did could be taken against us and I wasn't willing to go tit-for-tat with the bold eagles, I knew no one from our trp was going to do it anyways.


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## 241 (21 Aug 2007)

Future Unknown said:
			
		

> Of course not, and it was near the end of my course, with all the crap that had already taken place I didn't want to be a part of it anymore, we were made to feel that anything we said or did could be taken against us and I wasn't willing to go tit-for-tat with the bold eagles, I knew no one from our trp was going to do it anyways.



Well I can think of a few of them that would probably have been the culprits, not that it matters, and trust it would have been taken care of.  As for everything taken against you your staff must have told you that after the incident on that one weekend in the smoking pit, not EVERYTHING would have been held against you it just required common sense in the choice of words etc.  Oh well done and over with now.....


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## 3rd Herd (21 Aug 2007)

Future Unknown said:
			
		

> well I was in the building with the bold eagle course, that was fun!
> I'm not going to get into specifics but going out to the smoking pit and being accosted to buy someone a 26 wasn't cool.



I realize that you were at the end of your course and despite all the softening that has occurred over the years from when it was known as battleschool you needed sleep. Did you ever think that one of the purposes of the "Bold Eagle" program was to help eliminate that problem. To a lot of those students that is a part of their surroundings they live in on a daily basis. The other little interesting part of the program is to give these students a chance of a good nights sleep without having to worry about "Uncle Fred" getting up close and personal for the night. There is more to that program that you either did not take the time to learn about or you were to busy displaying the "cock of the walk"


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (21 Aug 2007)

you weren't there, and by no means am I trying to paint them all with the same brush, but i think a few were very manipulative, they certainly could dish the harassment according to the females on our course but they were also quick to lay out the charges. I'm not excusing the perceived  behavior of a course mate because after all it is impact not intent.
I understand that they come from varying social backgrounds and even had a few good conversations with a couple good ones, but i didn't want to start a crap storm with a group of candidates that had demonstrated there ability to embellish something they had heard. 
The course had problems, but they were not my problems and I wanted to stay as grey as humanly possible, especially near the end. 
Alas as a young inexperienced trooper I have no idea of the frustration the staff may or may not have felt instructing that course but I can start to imagine in my limited dealings with a couple.

edited so as to not offend the sensibilities of other.


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (21 Aug 2007)

no course is without its flaws, 
occasionally we would stubble back into the shacks from JD's or the mess on a friday or saturday night being a little loud and full of ourselfs.
I tried to keep my head down, and all I'm saying is that I saw things when I was out there, 
Like the attempt to get alcohol, 
or the BIQ from across the square coming for late night chill sessions,
or yelling lewd things to the females on our course (this was eventually brought to the attention of the course staff of bold eagle).
and I'm sure a few of the graduates will go on to become fine soldiers in the Canadian Forces.


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## 3rd Herd (21 Aug 2007)

other post/ threads on this topic and on this particular discusion of the moment:
Native protesters  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52597/post-489880.html#msg489880

Coderre Calls for Aboriginal CF Unit, Base
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59782/post-555455.html#msg555455

Trying to start a reserve unit  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/19720/post-293915.html#msg293915

Are Our Laws Being Applied Equally??  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/44916/post-392790.html#msg392790

What do you really know about the Canadian Rangers
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/39261/post-545435.html#msg545435

Military Making Pitch to Aboriginal Youth 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31049/post-221254.html#msg221254

Is the CAF as diversified as canada is?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37/post-422292.html#msg422292

Ex, in the last link pbi sheds some more light on your initial question as does one of the Esquimalt Trg Officers in one of the prior links.
3rd Herd has a new toy- advanced search  ;D

edit: grammer


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Aug 2007)

Thanks 3rd


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## rage (21 Aug 2007)

I am a product of Bold Eagle! The instructors were awesome and I am a result of their teachings. 4 years ago I entered the CF and a thousand eyes watching debating if Bold Eagle is worth it. Believe me it is. I am here and I am a soldier in the Canadian Forces thanks to Bold Eagle. 

Rage


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## 241 (21 Aug 2007)

rage said:
			
		

> I am a product of Bold Eagle! The instructors were awesome and I am a result of their teachings. 4 years ago I entered the CF and a thousand eyes watching debating if Bold Eagle is worth it. Believe me it is. I am here and I am a soldier in the Canadian Forces thanks to Bold Eagle.
> 
> Rage



Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is not worth it I am just saying that this years group treated it like summer camp, I mean nothing we did seemed to bother them, there where more charges that I can remember and for the most part they all thought it was a big game.  I know a few troops that went through Bold Eagle and stayed in and they are good troops so there is nothing wrong with the program just the majority that where there this year.


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## rage (21 Aug 2007)

Understoood, no one wants those slackers in the CF. i  was 31 during Bold Eagle, I wanted to be there. I was the oldest guy in history and I love being a soldier and had alot of disputes with stupid kids but dicovered what "in barracks justice" was. I am here and they are NOT!


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## maclaine (21 Aug 2007)

I've been tracking the statistics for 5 years. On an average year 20-45% join either the PRes or Reg F within 6 months of graduation. Most are from remote communities and still in highschool, so don't join right away. There is a tendency 2 or so years after completing the program for some people to join up, once they have finished school, but that number is hard to quantify.

A study was done in 2002 where an attempt was made to contact all graduates (since 90) and find out what they were doing at that time. That found that 11% of the total was still in the CF, and approx the same percent was in RCMP or other policing/correctional services. I would guess that compares to the graduates of any PRes course over a 12 year period. 

The army funds Bold Eagle as an employment equity initiative, and therefore hopes that a good number decide that the CF is a good career for them. The program is a partnership however, partially funded by aboriginal organizations. For their part, they want to see young people develop skills, self-confidence, teamwork and discipline. Bold Eagle begun when their veterans who had gone on into leadership positions on Reserves aproached the military for a program that would develop these qualities. The vast majority of graduates do go on to complete their education and enter the workforce as productive citizens, and therefore the Aboriginal leadership considers the program a terrific success. 

Like any partnership, both sides need to get something out of the deal. I would venture to say programs like Bold Eagle that reduce poverty, alienation and disengagement in our own aboriginal population does more to enhance Canada's security than digging any number of wells in Afgahnistan will. It isn't as glorious for the instructors, but just as important.


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## Rick Ruter (21 Aug 2007)

maclaine, I'm glad you decided to join and post since you are the SME for Bold Eagle. 

The Raven program is pretty much the equivalent of Bold Eagle and they are both Reserve Entry programs. In some communities the Bold Eagle and Raven course will grant P Res BMQ equivalent. Not always though.

There is also the CFAEP (CF Aboriginal Entry Program) which allows them to get a taste of the CF for a few weeks in Farnham Québec. If they like it, they can write the CFAT and get enrolled to go to BMQ.


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## wakingheart (23 Feb 2009)

I will be done my University this summer and am interested in training. An elder told me about Operation Bold Eagle, I was hoping for some wisdom from veterans of this program or anyone who has experience in this matter.

Operation Bold Eagle (http://www.army.gc.ca/boldeagle/contents.htm)

Was the training experience different in comparison to what your colleagues went through?

Did they incorporate traditional teaching well?

Was the experience spiritual in a traditional way?

Are you treated differently after taking this course?


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## kemp (27 Feb 2009)

I look after the Bold Eagle program on behalf of the Army.  I am not a "veteran" of the program per se however I do spend the summer overseeing the program in Wainwright, AB.  I thought I would offer some information in regards to the questions posed below.

Bold Eagle recruits undertake the same Army Reserve Basic Military Qualification course as any other member of the Army Reserve.  The only difference, Bold Eagle adds a cultural component that includes: a four day culture camp which covers traditional customs and teachings, a visit to a local powwow, two Elders as staff who hold regular Elder hours/circles each week, a designated career day to explore future options, and inclusion of Aboriginal customs during the graduation ceremony.  Otherwise, the training is at the same military standard, so that if you decide to continue to serve in the Army Reserve afterwards, your next level of training would be the Soldier Qualification course alongside your fellow Army Reservists.  

As for the culture camp, specific activities include sharing circles, pipe ceremonies, sweats, tipi building, skit night, lifestyle discussions, and fitness.  Recruits participate as much as they want to in the traditional activities - for example if you do not want to sweat, you do not have to (although we hope everyone chooses to experience these activities).  The camp also helps foster teamwork in preparation for starting basic training, which I believe helps attribute to the high completion rate (89% of the recruits successfully completed the program in 2008).  Given that the recruits come from all across western-Canada and north-western Ontario, rural and urban environments, it also helps bridge cultural nuances and allows recruits to become familiar with their new surroundings.  The culture camp is led by Elders and staff contracted by the Aboriginal partner organizations involved alongside the Canadian Forces in providing this program.

Of the 57 who graduated last year, 56 said they would recommend the program to family and friends.  The feedback from the graduates indicated a successful program that helped develop teamwork, self discipline, self confidence and fitness to name but a few attributes.  Of course some dissatisfiers were expressed - getting up early, long hours, and demanding inspections for example.  That is normal for basic training though...

I have one case of a Bold Eagle graduate from last summer who has gone on to serve in a Reserve unit.  She joined a medical unit and has indicated to me that she really likes the people and that her training is already progressing; such that she is currently attending her Soldier Qualification course and they are planning to load her on her occupation training this summer.  I would recommend visiting the "Breaking News" section in the Bold Eagle website http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/boldeagle/news.asp as you will find relevant information about the 2008 course and its graduates.

I notice that a Bold Eagle graduate posted comments about a positive Bold Eagle experience earlier in this forum.  I hope this helps with your interest in the program.  I would recommend moving forward with an application if this is something you would like to experience.


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## wakingheart (10 Mar 2009)

Thank you for the information.


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