# My new ruck



## tacsit (10 Aug 2004)

Well, after a couple of months of drawing up plans, thinking about uniform nazis, and looking at what constitutes a good military ruck, I finally have a finished product. I give you, the 64 pattern frankenruck:












This ruck, as all can see, follows the basic 64 pattern ruck design. A medium sized sack on bottom, velise on top. I decided to go with the 64 pattern ruck design because it allows you to use the sack as a cargo shelf. You can keep mortar rounds, CarlG rounds, jerry cans, wounded pers., heck, almost anything you want on there and hump it fairly comfortably. That to me is one of the requirements of a military ruck. Far too many rucks these days are camping gear oriented, not designed for the efficient carrying of combat loads. I also like having a ruck that uses a velise. A velise enables you to section off gear as well as leaving your ruck outside the hootch/tent and just bringing your sleeping/snivel kit inside. Another big reason I went with the 64 pattern ruck is to assuage the feelings of all those small minded uniform nazis running around in the CF. Yes, if any of you are on this forum you know who you are. Hopefully this is 64 patterenish enough for those idiots. At the bottom here we have a Drop Zone Tactical 64 pattern modular sack, with DZs MULES mk.2 system of pouch attachment, which is PALS compatible. Above that is the CF issue velise. I'll probably be replacing that with a Canadian Peacekeeper CADPAT velise. Yeah yeah I know, many who have used it say it sucks, the compression straps are on wrong... well, in fact they aren't. It's better to compress the velis horizontally instead of vertically. that way it's still easy to lash down (not to mention, a CADPAT velise adds to the overall cam effect). Above the velise is the top lid from a Mystery Ranch DBSB ruck (the DBSB ruck was designed for the SEALS). The colour of the lid is what MR has dubbed "Titanium." Apparently it's a colour that takes well to spray paint, something I'll definitely be doing. A nice mix of OD and brown should work well on that. Of course I'll be hitting the buckles as well. The whole kit and kaboodle is attached to a MR NICE frame. I chose this frame for several reasons:

1.) It's adjustable, so I know I'll be able to get it to fit me;
2.) It's cheap. At $219 USD it's really not that bad a deal at all for what's pretty much a nice internal frame
3.) It can withstand the shock of airborne operations. Dana Sr. at MR has informed me that some Marines have been jump testing the NICE and it's held up very well.
4.) It's most likely comfy. Very comfy. Something borne out by those I've spoken with who have this frame.

I went with the DBSB top lid to add capacity to the pack. Normally the velise is secured to the ruck frame by two A7A straps. The top lid serves the same purpose while offering me two external pockets to stash some odds and ends. To the sack I will be adding 3 CADPAT TT large utility pouches. To the frame I'll be lashing my Ontario RTAK as well as a 10 liter MSR dromedary hydration bladder. My RAID pack will be kept lashed against the frame by the velise, thus keeping it easily accessible yet secure. The ruck is being mailed to me shortly (the above pics taken by the nice folks at MR). I'd like to thank both Brian Kroon at Drop Zone and Dana Sr. at Mystery Ranch for their help in this project. Once I get the pack and have everything sorted out on it, I'll hump the heck out of it and get back to ya'll with more pics, and an in depth review. Stay tuned...


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## Fusaki (11 Aug 2004)

Wow...

How much did that rig set you back? The pricetag, all said and done?


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## KevinB (11 Aug 2004)

tacsit said:
			
		

> helping this warrior get what he needed.



 :

Sorry man I think you could have done better.


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## tacsit (11 Aug 2004)

You're just too high on Kifaru Kev... that's the problem with you Kifaru maniacs, always have your head in the clouds . Seriously bud, maybe you can get away with a Kifaru, but I wouldn't be able to. And like I said, I'm not going to shell out $700 CDN on a pack.


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## Matt_Fisher (11 Aug 2004)

Different strokes for different folks.

There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to both systems.  Personally, what I'd love to see would be a similar setup on the Kifaru cargo hauler frame, but with some modifications.

The 64 bag would be a panel loader so you could access the contents without having to undo the valise.  

Rather than the BDSB lid, I'd prefer to have a patrol pack like the Kifaru Scout strapped on. 

The Nice frame is certainly a step up from a 64 tubular frame or the Alice piece of crap (humped with way too many broken Alice frames to have any respect for that thing).  However there are a few things that I think make the Kifaru somewhat better:
Nice frame doesn't have a frame long enough to effectively use shoulder strap lifters on, and the waistbelt fared poorer in a comparison 
http://lightfighter.net/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=2756008371&m=322101853&r=503103853#503103853

I talked to Mel at Kifaru about the possiblity of doing a similar setup and at this time, with their production already maxed out it's not really something they want to devote alot of R&D effort into.  Another thing is that this 64 pattern setup is pretty much unique to Canadians and since that is such a small market segment, it's probably not going to give them a good return on investment to produce a pack like this.

Kevin, how's that Marpat knock-off CFP-90 working out for you?  I'm using a 1st Gen Lowe Alpine Woodland CFP-90 (circa mid-80s) and that thing is pretty much at the end of it's life.  7 months in Iraq and exposed to constant sunlight an a nice marinade of various POLs have pretty much deteriorated the nylon in some spots.


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## Armymedic (11 Aug 2004)

As a MCpl uniform nazi, I feel the need to see how far my highly brush shone cbt boot will slide up your rectum. ...

Seriously, I love my jump ruck (64 pattern). 

The addition of the lid looks a bit much, and the bag itself looks a bit small. My big concern, with the TV those hip pads probably won't fit/be confortable.

Positive, Shoulder and back pads look real good. The ability to customize outside pouches for ammo, food, and water looks good too.

Being light Medic, I have some different requirements then o31 types, but overall, I think it would work.


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## tacsit (11 Aug 2004)

Armymedic, now now, you wouldn't want those highly polished boots getting all dirty would you?  ;D. The lid is a great addition. I just got my ruck in the mail this morning and I love the lid. It was two zippered compartments, each of which can accomodate a 3 liter hydration bladder or other odds and ends. As well it has fold away shoulder straps so you can unsnap it from the ruck and use it as a small pack. The bag itself is actually 20% larger than the standard 64 pattern sack. As well, today I attached 3 CADPAT tactical tailor large utility pouches to the outside, each of which is larger than the external pockets on the standard 64 pattern sack. The TV is actually designed to accomodate a rucksack with a padded waistbelt. That was a big part of the design feature. If you examine the CTS website you'll see the new ruck has such a waistbelt and was designed to integrate with the TV. In any case, I wouldn't use the TV. My 2nd line is a mk.3 hellcat chest rig with CADPAT pouches on it. Rides nice and high, doesn't interfeer with the waistbelt on my ruck.


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## JBP (11 Aug 2004)

Hello folks,

Just a question. I was under the impression that anyone in the CF whether Reg force or Reserve, wasn't allowed to mix/match any civvy/custom stuff with thier military gear/combats/uniform... Has that changed? We're allowed to buy our own rucks?!?!?!

I would be happy if we can cause' man, I've heard the horror stories of those damn ruck sacs!!!

Joe


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## KevinB (12 Aug 2004)

Tac - I guess  ;D

From my prospective ArmyMedic hit the nail on the head with the hip belt - the top looks off balanced - I would have had a fatter bottom bag - especially if you want to do what you have stated with it.

The top pouch is a god awful colour too.


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## tacsit (12 Aug 2004)

Recruit Joe, there are a god awful number of NCOs and Officers in the CF who believe that uniformity is something that should be extended from the parade square to the field. These people are idiots in my opinion. The standard set by 3VP in Astan (boots black or green, load bearing kit either green or CADPAT, you look unmistakenly Canadian) is appropriate. These uniform nazis who think everybody should look the same in the field are morons who don't seem to understand that when you're in the field you are gambling with men's lives. As such you should give your troops every advantage possible to help them accomplish the mission. If that means a different ruck or chest rig (obviously at mil-spec quality and it can get the job done) then the troop should be allowed to wear it.

Kevin, it's actually not that unbalanced at all. Though with any pack more of the weight will be on top, which is how it should be. The bottom bag is pretty fat, believe me, especially with the external pouches I've added (and there's room for several more pouches lemme tell you). Yeah, I agree the top lid is ugly as sin, but that's where krylon comes in. A nice heavy coat of OD with some brown and it'll be good to go.


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## KevinB (12 Aug 2004)

Ah okay I guess the pic dont do it justice.

Recruit Joe: the blind adhearance to uniform rules is stupid - but I do question the validity of non-operational units running around like a 3 ring circus.
  Infantry units especially recce elements do not seem to fall into the CFès sphere of care for equipment purchase as a result many pieces of kit are ineffective.


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## Armymedic (12 Aug 2004)

Tacsit, 
If you wiped your butt in a proper military manner as instructed to you on your BMQ, my boots won't get dirty.... ;D

You don't actually believe everything you read on the CTS site. Really, its a matter of fit. Being of short statue, my jump rucks hip strap runs over the lower pouches of the TV.  Larger padded straps would probable not fit around the 2 qt canteen, and other kit I keep in those lower pockets.



			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> Recruit Joe: the blind adherence to uniform rules is stupid - but I do question the validity of non-operational units running around like a 3 ring circus.
> Infantry units especially recce elements do not seem to fall into the CFs sphere of care for equipment purchase as a result many pieces of kit are ineffective.



While I agree that blind adherence of the rules of cbt dress during operations and deployments is inflexible, and specialized crews like recce, snipers, engineers, and even we medics should have some latitude towards the gear they use....
I feel if issued kit is effective, IE TV's (and I know how you love your chest rig), all our new clothing, then pers purchased kit should not be allowed. Also here in Canada, all units (PARTICULARLY RRESERVISTS) should be dictated to use what they are issued as to avoid looking like that circus you mention above. 

The big question is: Where do we draw the line?

Saying that....Let me quote Maximus "on my command, unleash Hell"

STANDBY!                    GO!


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## bossdog (12 Aug 2004)

Good effort - you've gone further than most to try and find a better product for the troops.


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## tacsit (13 Aug 2004)

Wait a sec, that wasn't one of our PO checks! ;D. Ok, that's true, I don't really believe everything on the CTS site. Really I filter out 50% of the stuff on any DND site as bubkis, lol. I've tried on a friend's TV and it did indeed ride lower than the design parameters suggest. Another reason why I love my chest rig (I'lll have to post pics of it sometime in the near future). In any case, can you hitch up your TV, connect the wiastbelt, and let the TV ride on top of the padded straps? May not be perfect but could be the best option out there (short of purchasing your own 2nd line rig).

 I disagree with you on your point that, "I feel if issued kit is effective, IE TV's (and I know how you love your chest rig), all our new clothing, then pers purchased kit should not be allowed. Also here in Canada, all units (PARTICULARLY RRESERVISTS) should be dictated to use what they are issued as to avoid looking like that circus you mention above." If issued kit is effective, that's wonderful. But if a soldier wants to spend his own cash on kit that will be BETTER THAN EFFECTIVE than more power to him, provided that kit falls within the confines of acceptability of kit. You ask yourself, where do we cross the line? Well, I've already written where the line should be, that established by 3VP during their tour in Astan. It worked for them, and if anybody can't easily identify those troops as Canadian than they need to either grow a brain or a new set of eyes. If you follow the benchmark 3VP set, then those warriors who are willing to go the extra mile to get kit that will help them will be happy, as will other like-minded NCOs and officers who don't necessarily want to get kit for themselves, but recognize that you can have freedom of choice with regards to kit without looking like a band of roving gypsies.


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## JBP (14 Aug 2004)

Well, thanks for the response folks!

From what I understand now, you're not really "suppose" to mix your gear or wear anything not issued by your unit/DND. But they accept it. Because they know sometimes the gear sucks, is old, or just doesn't fit every individual right. Or they might understand you wish to augument what you already have. I suppose I'll have to figure out what my Unit accepts when I start with them in Sept or Jan. 

Thanks again, I like the flexibility.

Joe


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## tacsit (14 Aug 2004)

Recruit Joe, when you get to your unit, don't be surprised if some anal retentive idiots forbid you from wearing anything much of any non-issue kit. If you manage to score some NCOs or officers who are open minded then lucky you, but I wouldn't count on it.

In other news, I just finished putting on a coat of brown krylon on the top lid of my ruck. Going to buy some OD krylon tommorow at Canadian Tire. Also mounted three CADPAT TT large utility pouches onto the sack. There is mucho room for more pouches; I'll probably be mounting 2 2qt canteens onto the ruck. That way I'll have 4 qts on the sack, then 3 liters in the camelbak attached to my RAID pack. I'm going to get a Camelbak pakteen to either attach to the frame or keep on in the top lid so I have a bit of liquid I can drink on the move while wearing the ruck. Also I've lashed my RTAK on top of the sack lid vs. lashing it to the frame. Once I have everything done and done I'll take some more pics to throw up. I was looking forward to starting the T&E this weekend but I was in a bike accident yesterday so with my busted shoulder I can't hump much of anything just yet.


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## Armymedic (14 Aug 2004)

tacsit said:
			
		

> Recruit Joe, when you get to your unit, don't be surprised if some anal retentive idiots forbid you from wearing anything much of any non-issue kit. If you manage to score some NCOs or officers who are open minded then lucky you, but I wouldn't count on it.



Tac- be careful with you choice of wording. I am sure there are a couple of RSM in Petawawa who would have you skinned for the above comment. There are some who consider dress a cornerstone of discipline.

Not all members of the CF are as "free thinking".


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## Infanteer (14 Aug 2004)

As well, there are two sides to every story.  Some SNCO's will have very valid and credible reasons for restricting personal kit to _some_ extent, I've seen some units show up looking like Gypsy side shows because there was no restraint in what they could bring to the field.  There is no point denigrating the professionalism of some SNCO's by labeling them as "idiots".


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## axeman (14 Aug 2004)

as a member of 3 PPCLI ive commonly had 2 sets of kit one for show and one for the field . . it really depend on your higher ups as to what all you can wear. we are currently  getting the new pattern kit. ie LBV  and all .  the 64 pattern ruck has been allowed  because our high amount of field time and also for our shorter members that the 84 would cripple by its poor design .{for the shorties}. as to this new pack well  like i said it all depends on your echelon  leaders. dont get too wild and it should be allowed.  :-\


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## tacsit (14 Aug 2004)

Armymedic, thanks for the concern. I also consider dress a cornerstone of discipline... when in garrison and on the parade square, but not as much when in the field. On to Infanteer's point, I'm not advocating everybody show up looking like a JTF-2 assaulter. I'm saying that the standard set forth by 3VP in Astan is the proper yardstick to use WRT non-issue kit. I am in no way denigrating those NCOs who use such a yardstick. But I will stick by my guns and say that any NCOs who forbidthe use of effective non-issue kit that falls within the lines set forth by 3VP in Astan are indeed idiots. They can skin me alive all they want, I frankly don't care. I care more about being combat effective than some people's parade ground mentality extended into the field. I understand my viewpoint is quite unorthodox compared to many CF members, but this is something I strongly believe in, so I'll stick with it.


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## caroline65 (15 Aug 2004)

Recruit Joe said:
			
		

> Hello folks,
> 
> Just a question. I was under the impression that anyone in the CF whether Reg force or Reserve, wasn't allowed to mix/match any civvy/custom stuff with thier military gear/combats/uniform... Has that changed? We're allowed to buy our own rucks?!?!?!
> 
> ...



No, you aren't allowed to wear a civilian pattern anything. Don't spend your hard earned money. The rucks are a bit cumbersome but, it does the job it's supposed to do.


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## Arctic Acorn (15 Aug 2004)

Not to detract from the Master Corporals comment, but I will say that it depends on where you go and what you do. It isn't as black and white as that, caroline65...

As a new soldier in the training system, you wear what is issued and that is that. It's just the way it works. As a reservist, the kit policy depends on your unit. Some reserve units are the same way, and some are a bit more relaxed. As long as it's green, and doesn't look out of place, sometimes you can get away with it, but it all depends. But the key thing is that it doesn't look out of place. 

In the reg force...well, someone will have to speak for me on that one. I will say that on tours things can change somewhat. I know a lot of folks that used non-issue kit when I was in Bosnia (myself included). There was a great thread on this forum that discussed what types of non-issue kit the PPCLI used when they were in Afghanistan. Do a search and you'll find it. 

I would recommend that you follow caroline65's advice and don't spend your hard earned money...at first. Be damn sure what your unit's kit policy is before shelling out dough on something you might not be able to use. However, if you can, more power to you, I say!


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## caroline65 (15 Aug 2004)

Arctic Acorn said:
			
		

> Not to detract from the Master Corporals comment, but I will say that it depends on where you go and what you do. It isn't as black and white as that, caroline65...
> 
> As a new soldier in the training system, you wear what is issued and that is that. It's just the way it works. As a reservist, the kit policy depends on your unit. Some reserve units are the same way, and some are a bit more relaxed. As long as it's green, and doesn't look out of place, sometimes you can get away with it, but it all depends. But the key thing is that it doesn't look out of place.
> 
> ...


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## KevinB (15 Aug 2004)

caroline65 said:
			
		

> No, you aren't allowed to wear a civilian pattern anything. Don't spend your hard earned money. The rucks are a bit cumbersome but, it does the job it's supposed to do.



 :

Thank for the opinion bin rat


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## Matt_Fisher (16 Aug 2004)

Caroline, are you playing Devil's Advocate here?   

Being a believer in using issued kit for equipment exchange or standardization purposes is one thing.   When you start beaking off about peacekeeping vs. peacemaking you really start to show your naievety if you think that every situation you're going to be in is no more than a constabulary action within an established armistice/ceasefire zone.   Over the last 10 years there have been plenty of occasions when Canadian troops have had to show aggressiveness and tenacity as warfighters or peacemakers rather than solely being peacekeepers.

Think back to Medac pocket and Croatia and Bosnia before it calmed down.   

Think of Somalia (and don't give me the media-inspired "disgrace" argument.   We've all read too much Somalia enquiry to realize that the boys were doing a good job, and it was only the actions of a few that created the situation there)

Think of KFOR in Kosovo, where NATOs (including Canadian troops) mandate was to combat all forces not observing the ceasefire.

Think of Afghanistan, where 3VP's snipers engaged and killed enemy forces.

If you truly are a Master Corporal in the Canadian Armed Forces, and are as biased against the violence of action that is necessary for a soldier to do his job, then I pray to god that the troops under your command never have to serve with you in a situation forward of friendly lines (in this case, Canada) where they may rely on your judgement to accomplish the mission effectively.

And if I am ever in the circumstance where I'm serving with you in a coalition environment, I won't bother you to cover my six...I know my Marines (regardless of if they're infantry, mechanic, or a cook) will be looking out for me just as I look out for them...Every Marine a rifleman.


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## Infanteer (16 Aug 2004)

Great post Matt

I can see where the creed of "Semper Fidelis" comes from.


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## Jarnhamar (16 Aug 2004)

> Every Marine a rifleman.



I would like to see this applied to the Canadian Forces.


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## NATO Boy (24 Sep 2004)

In regards to using Militia kit,

The standard (or rule-of-thumb, anyway) is that as long as the kit in question is Canadian, you can use it. Brigade doesn't want soldiers in Training Areas using German or American stuff or civvy stuff like School bags with reflectors and stupid stuff like that. I believe someone pointed out that as long as the kit is CADPAT, OD, or Black, it can be used; also true. However, some kit that's British can be used (as long as your Regt. is a sister Regt. or has ties to a Britsh Regt.) It also depends on what your RSM/CSMs say regarding kit. When in doubt, follow the brigade-level recommendation and you can't go wrong. I, as a qualified Pte, have a CADPAT recce patrol pack and a CADPAT hydrapack that is authorized by my PL Warrant and meets 31 CBG's standard and haven't run into problems (even when on Stalwart Guardian.)


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## ghazise (24 Sep 2004)

I have always been against personalizing kit, some reasons

1. Having a standard rigging and equipment, allows everyone in your platoon to know location of your Medical Pack, Ammo, Food and Water
2. Military Issue equipment has passed military standards, it is less likely to fall apart,
3. After a deployment, your gear is trashed, all you need to do is turn it for new equip,

And at the end of the day, we do not choose which regulations and orders we want to follow, it called discipline


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## Matt_Fisher (25 Sep 2004)

2FtOnion said:
			
		

> I have always been against personalizing kit, some reasons
> 
> 1. Having a standard rigging and equipment, allows everyone in your platoon to know location of your Medical Pack, Ammo, Food and Water
> 2. Military Issue equipment has passed military standards, it is less likely to fall apart,
> ...



Sorry my brother Marine, but I'm gonna disagree with you here on this one in regard to a couple of your points brought out.

First of, in terms of military equipment passing standards and not falling apart   :   At the prototype and evaluation stage, maybe yes.   At the end of the day your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder, or somebody with a hand in the back pocket of some politician or somebody in procurement.   I've seen way too many MOLLE FLCs that were coming apart at the seams to believe that what we're issued is always up to snuff and you don't even want to bring up the issue of MOLLE frames breaking, or degenerate gear that has been issued to me as "serviceable".

At the end of the deployment, then yes, you can turn in your "trashed gear" however I've also had times where we turn in gear to be DRMO'd (USMC lingo for equipment that is officially written off as destroyed) only to be reissued it later.   You see your buddy turn in an LBV that's all torn up and you see the same LBV on some poor new guy in the unit who's just drawn his gear from supply a couple weeks later.   Not so much because supply is out to screw him, just that the new guy NEEDS gear and supply doesn't have the money to buy new stuff or they've got stuff on order and are waiting an indefinite time to receive it.

I'll gladly spend some of my own hard-earned money on decent gear if it means that I'm going to be more efficient and comfortable in the field.   And unless I get all shot up and my gear is destroyed in the process (in which case I probably won't be returning to duty anytime soon) my superior aftermarket gear will probably hold up alot longer than any of the issue stuff.   

As a rule of thumb, I'll bring my issued 782 gear (more Marine lingo for rucks, LBVs, etc.) on deployment but it'll just sit at the bottom of my seabag, never seeing the light of day, in case we get some crazy word that the Div. Sgt. Major is coming down and he wants to see everybody looking the same, or in the off-chance that my personal stuff gets destroyed and I can't repair it myself (which is pretty unlikely).   And even if I was using the issued stuff, the Marine Corps deploys so light logistically, stuff like replacement 782 gear is going to be so far in the rear that it's going to be a good while before you get the opportunity to DX it.

I do agree about having a basic standardization or more aptly put "familarization" of gear within the squad/platoon.   For stuff like first aid/trauma, then you NEED to know where it is.   For other stuff though, as long as you've got the load prescribed in your mission orders, then you should carry it how you want (within reason of course...that's what pre-combat inspections are for).   If you think about the different roles within a Marine fireteam you've already got 4 different billets (2 Riflemen, 1 Grenadier and 1 SAW Gunner) so you've already got 3 different setups there, then add that one of those riflemen is the fireteam leader, so he'll probably have pop-flares, a strobe, and comm gear attached to his gear.   At the platoon level you throw in your weapons attachments:   60mm mortar team, M240/C6 team, SMAW team (Marine equivalent to the Carl G) and you've got even more needs for different setups.

I agree that at the end of the day we don't choose which regulations and orders we want to follow, but it's the leader's job to issue an SOP which works in combat, not something decided by what looks good for a Battalion parade review.


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## axeman (25 Sep 2004)

Way to say it Matt I agree with you 100 % use what you have to to get the job done make sure it works not just pretty but be prepared to look like a military formation . not a pack of wanna be's


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## ghazise (26 Sep 2004)

Matt, your right, MOLLE 1 and MOLLE 2 did fall apart, Consolidated Supply was brought about to eliminate the trashed gear to be re-issued, and for bringing two sets or extra 782 gear on deployments, that seems silly to me, now two of my Marines instead of bringing their issued seabag to IRAQ they had the stupid huge seabag, and they packed it so much, they couldn't carry it,  and it depends on the lattitude of your command,


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## pappy (26 Sep 2004)

First let me say I've visited this site from time to time in "stealth mode" and have decided to step out of the shadows and give my two cents worth on any posts that strike my fancy or make me laugh.  Take my bull**** for what its worth it and thats nothing more then my opinion, since that's all it is.  I've never served in the CAF, I'm one of the folks you guys are defending your border to keep me out of Canada.  Just a former US Marine, I've been out longer then some of you have been alive, so blow the dust off my opinions and take them with a grain of old sea salt.

I've been reading some of the posts here regarding all the cool Gucci kit thats on the market, well there is some nice stuff out there being an old kit slut I've seen a bit here and there and have had plenty dig into my skin enough to respect all those that wear it in harms way or even out of it.  And the '782 gear these days is lightyears ahead of what used to be issued, we bitched about it then and are still bitching.  A bitching Marine is a happy Marine. 

What's better, how someone modified it to be even better, etc, etc. all makes for interesting and sometimes humorous conversations.  

But I gotta agree with the folks that are saying to stay with the government issue that is signed out to ya, no matter how it sucks, always better to look like the rest of the group, as individuals that stand out is a crowd don't normally stand for long when the proverbial turd is in the wind.  Sticking out of the battlefield will likely get you more attention then you are really after.

Remember a guy named Custer?  his fancy custom uniforms and long Blondie hair may have been great for bagging chicks, but it also got him added attention from the Indians too.

Besides why get all that Gucci kit covered in mud, blood and brains?  

Besides it will fall apart, break, get lost, etc, no matter who made it.  Remember its all Low Bidder, Do I think everyone in the Military (at least the military's that are on our side) deserves the very best money can buy, well Duh, of course you all and all of us did and do, is it a disgrace when Low Bidder is the one supplying the kit to the military of what ever nation your talking about, yes.  But last I checked money still isn't growing on trees, well maybe in BC, and what little comes down into your pockets is hard earned to say the least spend is as you all see fit.

Just one old Marines opinion.


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## Fishbone Jones (26 Sep 2004)

Welcome Pappy. Just what we need, more of us old guys around here. ;D If you haven't already, have a gander at the forum rules and I'm sure you'll be fine.


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## pappy (26 Sep 2004)

one question to Tacsit (sorry if spelling is off)   nice shinny kit in the pics you posted, carried it far?       No disrespect....   just asking.
I know your a 20-something, but if you want your knees to make it to 30 lighten that load up a tad.

I'm the type that likes to travel light, looks like why too much crap, what are you packing it there?   I'm sure some of the folks here could go though the list of stull inside that and save you a little weight.

Looks pretty stuffed....   if you're gonna have room for the "motor bombs", etc etc shouldn't there be some empty space left once your personal gear, food, water is inside it?

I guess if the guys you bought it from said the Marines haven't broken it (yet.... haha we Marines can break almost anything) then it's tough...

"travel light, freeze at night"    

Semper Fi.....


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## gun plumber (3 Oct 2004)

10L of water?!
Can't you still AD REP water every day?Are not jerry cans still section stores to be carried by your QM?
Not hackin on your bag(looks good in a retarded cousin sorta way)but man,how much kit do you need?
And by the way,no "I don't ride in a truck"comments,I was'nt always a Cpl weapons tech........


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