# Tough situation - Girlfriend Pregnant - Common-Law ?



## Seaman_Navy (11 Feb 2006)

This week, my girlfriend announced me she is pregnant. I was in shocked cuz I just got my reg force transfer and I am gonna leave in a month. Moreover, I'm heading on my QL 3, so I don't know what to think for now. I'm gonna be sworn in next Wednesday and the recruiting centre does not know anything about that. I'm not married to her and we are not common law either. If we decide to keep the baby, is there any chance the recruiting centre and the CF can help us? I can not be away from her all that time during my course (6 months). Can we get a PMQ or the permission to have an appartment even if I am on a course and those who are on a course live usually in the single quarters? 

Thanks a lot in advance to help me


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Feb 2006)

This is going to sound crass, but the first thing you MUST do is make sure TOGETHER that this is the case.
Again, I don't know either of you, but it wouldn't be the first time a phantom pregnancy has come up before one was to leave.......
Sorry, I can't help you with the CF protocols.
Good luck


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## armyvern (11 Feb 2006)

Seaman_Navy said:
			
		

> This week, my girlfriend announced me she is pregnant. I was in shocked cuz I just got my reg force transfer and I am gonna leave in a month. Moreover, I'm heading on my QL 3, so I don't know what to think for now. I'm gonna be sworn in next Wednesday and the recruiting centre does not know anything about that. I'm not married to her and we are not common law either. If we decide to keep the baby, is there any chance the recruiting centre and the CF can help us? I can not be away from her all that time during my course (6 months). Can we get a PMQ or the permission to have an appartment even if I am on a course and those who are on a course live usually in the single quarters?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance to help me


Holy guacamole. Perhaps some thinking beforehand would have negated the situation you both now find yourself in. If you can't be away from her for 6 months (Why not???) don't bother getting yourself sworn in because her preganancy is not going to change the fact that you *will* be required to attend your courses when and where scheduled.

As you are not common law or married, there is no entitlement for you to having the Crown (that's the taxpayer) to pay for your girlfriend to co-locate near you during your courses/training. Now if you want to pay to move her all over the place while you are going through your trg you can. You'll also have to rent her an apartment to live in. You are not entitled to PMQs until you are legally common-law or married. The day the baby is born (should the birth occur before your marriage or before you can legally declare common-law status) you will then become entitled to PMQ housing.

I highly suggest that you inform the Recruiting Centre of the upcoming change in your family status prior to your swearing in, as if you truly cannot be away for 6 months, perhaps this is not the right career for you. Being away from home is a common occurance, our tours can last 6 months or longer, and serving personnel manage to pull off stuff like this (in sometimes a lot worse familial circumstances than a pregnant girlfriend) all the time and just 'make it happen.'

I have been home alone while my husband was deployed to Somalia during 6 months of my preganancy. I lived and so did he. It's not the preferrable way of doing things..but hey welcome to the military where the schedules do not adapt to the troops but rather the troops adapt to the schedules.


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## Seaman_Navy (11 Feb 2006)

So armyvern, it means that they will not support me or my status will not change till the baby is born. In fact, since we are not married and common law this pregnancy problem is ours? Am I right?

By the way, thank you very much for your answer. Appreciated!


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## Kat Stevens (11 Feb 2006)

I would have to say that pretty much any time a young troop impregnates a girlfriend, it is their problem, no?


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## armyvern (11 Feb 2006)

Pretty much. But if you have been living together for a time-period you may be able to declare common-law status prior to the baby's birth. That of course depends upon whether you want to declare this and how long a time-period you have been living together. Same for marriage. Big decisions that only you can make.

Pretty much, you are correct in the "not the CFs problem" asessment. The CF simply can not change it's training cycle, times, and programs to suit individuals as there are far too many of us (well at least for trg purposes!!). Thus, when the individual becomes a part of the CF, the individual must adapt to the varied and 'not-always-convenient' needs of the CF. When you sign on the line and get sworn in....you are agreeing to do this.


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## Long in the tooth (11 Feb 2006)

It sounds like a pickle, but rest assured you're not the first.  Depending upon the length of the course you may have a shot at quarters (the longer the more likely).  Bring your concerns to the course staff (in a logical manner).  Once you have a child you are eligible for common law.  I was.  The CSM made us bring in our just born daughter and said "yep, looks like you!".  Best of luck.


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## Seaman_Navy (11 Feb 2006)

thank you very much.


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## camochick (11 Feb 2006)

I dont know about what the military can do for you, but why can't you be away from her? My husband is currently deployed for 6 months and I am almost three months pregnant. It's not going to be easy for her, but you can be away. Being pregnant doesnt mean she is helpless. Like someone said before, make sure the pregnancy thing is for real. Good luck with whatever happens. And tell her to start taking her pre-natal vitamins. >


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## Seaman_Navy (11 Feb 2006)

I probably did not express myself correctly. I can be away from home for 6 months....like I have been for almost the last 7-8 months...it's now depending on us if we want to do it again.


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## Gunner (11 Feb 2006)

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31316/post-225076.html#msg225076

A very good previous thread on this subject and well worth reading.


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## meni0n (11 Feb 2006)

Seaman_Navy said:
			
		

> This week, my girlfriend announced me she is pregnant.





			
				Seaman_Navy said:
			
		

> I can be away from home for 6 months....like I have been for almost the last 7-8 months...



 ??? ???


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## Jaxson (11 Feb 2006)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I would have to say that pretty much any time a young troop impregnates a girlfriend, it is their problem, no?




Kat im going to go one up on your and say pretty much any time a young man impregnates a girlfriend, it is a problem.


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## AirForceWife (12 Feb 2006)

you do not need to be married or common law to have a PMQ. Ive known a few people that are single and not even in a relationship get a PMQ.  You might have some luck if you pay for the move yourself, and write a memo requesting for her to live in a PMQ where you are on course. I don't think you will be able to "live" with her, but at least maybe she will have some luck with a Q.  But then again, maybe not since you can't be charged 2 quarters either.  
If you bring up the fact of financial hardship etc with this, asking for help for a move, they may just tell you to take a sisip loan


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## Elisha (12 Feb 2006)

It is very few and far between that you will get a Q if you are single and in most cases if you are not married or common law and say your a pregnent that you have to wait till a certain point in the pregnancy to be able to then apply to get a Q.  Here in Edmonton, there is usually a waiting list to get into any Q on base so I would doubt that they would give you one without being married.  I also know that on some bases, if you are already live in a place they use their descrection to whether or not you are able to get a Q then.

Good luck though!

Elisha


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## armyvern (12 Feb 2006)

Tarutig said:
			
		

> you do not need to be married or common law to have a PMQ. Ive known a few people that are single and not even in a relationship get a PMQ.  You might have some luck if you pay for the move yourself, and write a memo requesting for her to live in a PMQ where you are on course. I don't think you will be able to "live" with her, but at least maybe she will have some luck with a Q.  But then again, maybe not since you can't be charged 2 quarters either.
> If you bring up the fact of financial hardship etc with this, asking for help for a move, they may just tell you to take a sisip loan


These are called enhanced singles quarters...and if he happens to move ahead of the single guys with 'time-in" and the ability to cover the costs of one to get one of them...which I highly doubt; his girlfirend can not move in with him as it is an "enhanced *singles* quarter". This situation only occurs on Bases where there is not enough singles quarters and where there is an abundance of empty PMQs...an unusual situation to see occuring at a trg Base.


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## George Wallace (12 Feb 2006)

Tarutig said:
			
		

> you do not need to be married or common law to have a PMQ. Ive known a few people that are single and not even in a relationship get a PMQ.  You might have some luck if you pay for the move yourself, and write a memo requesting for her to live in a PMQ where you are on course. I don't think you will be able to "live" with her, but at least maybe she will have some luck with a Q.  But then again, maybe not since you can't be charged 2 quarters either.
> If you bring up the fact of financial hardship etc with this, asking for help for a move, they may just tell you to take a sisip loan


If you do follow this advice, you may find that all expenses will have to come out of your own pocket, and you will have to find an apartment or house to rent off Base, with no legal rights to reimbursement.  If you, at this stage of your career, become an 'administrative burden' or 'financial' problem, you may find that you will soon no longer have a career in the CF.  

It is also, not usually the policy to give a person Permanent Married Quarters for 'family members' while temporarily posted on a short course like QL3.


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## AirForceWife (12 Feb 2006)

Elisha said:
			
		

> It is very few and far between that you will get a Q if you are single and in most cases if you are not married or common law and say your a pregnent that you have to wait till a certain point in the pregnancy to be able to then apply to get a Q.  Here in Edmonton, there is usually a waiting list to get into any Q on base so I would doubt that they would give you one without being married.  I also know that on some bases, if you are already live in a place they use their descrection to whether or not you are able to get a Q then.
> 
> Good luck though!
> 
> Elisha



I know people in Kingston, Winnipeg and Greenwood who are all single and had no problems moving into Qs. However since its so early into the training I doubt he will get one if asked. But those that I know that are in Qs were told that if they all become taken and a family needs to move in, then they have to move out. It all depends on availability and at some bases there are waiting lists - which obviously a single person would not get one.


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## aesop081 (12 Feb 2006)

speculation, speculation.......lock ?


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## Shadow Cat (12 Feb 2006)

I can tell you right now that anything is possible.

My Dh is currently on his QL3's here in Kingston and we as a family were getting ready to move ourselves to be with him during his training, just waiting for a memo stating that we could get a Q and that we were moving ourselves.  The military decided at the last minute that it was wrong that we were paying for the move and so they moved us.  His QL3 course ended up being only a little over five months long and the military still decided to move us to be with him during his QL3 training anyways.  There is an overabundance of Qs here and many are occupied by single members.  They even have 3 bedrooms that are being occupied by one person.   

My DH is still required to maintain his room and bed and everything that is contained in there and he is still required or at least feels that he must help with station job duties for the platoon insepctions.  He is also still required to report to work at sometimes 5:15 for his regular PT classes and must come home everyday for lunch.  If you are able to get her to be with you make sure that she understands that she still wont see you much.  Between the chores and studying it is almost like I am still single except for on weekends.  I dont mind thought, at least the bed isnt empty at night.

You unfortunately wont know anything until you get to either PAT or to your actual training location.  I would have to say that you should be prepared to pay for her relocation out of your own pocket.  It was a long road for us to get approval and not easy but like I said anythign is possible.


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## 043 (12 Feb 2006)

Seaman_Navy said:
			
		

> This week, my girlfriend announced me she is pregnant. I was in shocked cuz I just got my reg force transfer and I am gonna leave in a month. Moreover, I'm heading on my QL 3, so I don't know what to think for now. I'm gonna be sworn in next Wednesday and the recruiting centre does not know anything about that. I'm not married to her and we are not common law either. If we decide to keep the baby, is there any chance the recruiting centre and the CF can help us? I can not be away from her all that time during my course (6 months). Can we get a PMQ or the permission to have an appartment even if I am on a course and those who are on a course live usually in the single quarters?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance to help me



Hmmmmmmmmmmmm cold answer coming here...................why cant you be away from her all that time??? You are joining the Military aren't you??? You're GF isn't in the Military is she???? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Elisha (12 Feb 2006)

I was simply speaking for the situation here in Edmonton.  I have heard of single men getting Q's but I can't speak for other bases besides here in Edmonton.


Elisha


Good Luck!


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## armyvern (13 Feb 2006)

Shadow Cat said:
			
		

> I can tell you right now that anything is possible.



Uhmmm. You are in a totally different situation from him aren't you??

You are married (or common-law) thus qualify for the PMQ. 

If he went to Kingston he may get a quarters as a "single"...ie no girlfriend living in there with him. "Single" guys living in 3 bedrooms....just as the previous posters have put it...if there is an abundance of empty PMQs...then singles may move into them (but not their girlfriends...). Until he is married, common-law or has the child...he is not entitled to move his girlfriend into a PMQ or a "singles quarter PMQ." (or to move her anywhere at public expense for that matter as they are not legally related as your and your DH are).

Your situation is not applicable to his circumstances.


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## Shadow Cat (14 Feb 2006)

If he was able to get a Q that had three bedrooms isnt he entitled at his own expense to move her in there with him?  I mean technically at some point the girl has to be able to move in or there would never be common law reltionships once you joined the forces.  As I said before be prepared to pay for the move yourself if it is approved.


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## geo (14 Feb 2006)

You'll find that most career manglers are "cold hearted SOBs" while the Rercuit is undergoing training. Until he's trained - Very seldom is it an issue of what he wants... BQ, SQ & DP1 Trade qualifications are relatively short length courses and the Forces typicaly expects personnel undergoing training to live AND sleep within course / Coy lines. Once you've qualified and the CF figures out where they're sending you - then they'll be real happy to look after the move and make PMQs available.


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## beach_bum (14 Feb 2006)

Shadow Cat said:
			
		

> If he was able to get a Q that had three bedrooms isnt he entitled at his own expense to move her in there with him?  I mean technically at some point the girl has to be able to move in or there would never be common law reltionships once you joined the forces.  As I said before be prepared to pay for the move yourself if it is approved.



Not if it's designated as a SQ.  People in the forces do become common-law living in off-base housing, not in single quarters.


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## Shadow Cat (18 Feb 2006)

I am talking about getting a Q in that response.  If and if he can get a Q he should be entitled to move who he wants in at his own expense, shouldnt he?


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## beach_bum (18 Feb 2006)

I was also referring to Qs that are designated as single quarters.


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## Shadow Cat (18 Feb 2006)

Oh.  Are those the apartments that you get a bigger space but have to share a washroom still?


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## beach_bum (18 Feb 2006)

If you read armyverns post, she explains this as well.  They are houses that are allocated as enhanced single quarters.


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## armyvern (19 Feb 2006)

Shadow Cat said:
			
		

> I am talking about getting a Q in that response.  If and if he can get a Q he should be entitled to move who he wants in at his own expense, shouldnt he?


Shadowcat:

There are PMQs (for married people) and there are those PMQs that are designated as ESQs (Enhanced Single's Quarters) on some Bases.

ESQs are available on some bases due to lack of "families" or "married couples" to move into them. ESQs are the exact same thing as PMQs (except that they are designated for "single" personnel). There may be an ESQ located right beside a PMQ.

It is cheaper in the long run to have a single pers move into an empty PMQ and pay the heating costs than to leave an abundance of 'empty/famliless' PMQs for which the Crown ultimately foots the bill to heat. And, on some bases 2 or 3 single *military* pers move into one PMQ which has been designated as an ESQ (like here in Gagetown). 

Regardless, a PMQ that is being occupied by a single person becomes a designated "ESQ" and the same rules apply as that of the single person living in the more traditional on-base "shacks/singles quarters." You can not move your boyfriend or girlfriend into the shacks...nor can you move them into your ESQ. So it'd be pretty hard to claim common-law status by moving an unauthorized person into your shacks and then trying to claim that the enhanced singles quarters address was their official residence for common-law purposes.


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## Shadow Cat (19 Feb 2006)

So out of curiosity as I am kinda new to all of this...how does one become common-law while living in military housing?  I mean there must be a way.  How does one do it?


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## geo (19 Feb 2006)

you'd have to provide some sort of evidence that you've been together for more than a year.... and voila!


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## Gouki (19 Feb 2006)

A solid way to do it is to collect bills you paid of some nature or mail, indicating and proving you have been with your boyfriend in the same residence (or with him if there are more) for at least 6 months, and take it to whatever clerk is applicable to him to sign the necessary paperwork. It can sometimes take a while so don't hold your breath.


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## armyvern (19 Feb 2006)

Shadow Cat said:
			
		

> So out of curiosity as I am kinda new to all of this...how does one become common-law while living in military housing?  I mean there must be a way.  How does one do it?


That is exactly it...one can not become common-law while they live in designated "Single" military housing as, legally, they can not have their boyfriend/girlfriend living with them. To do this they must get an apartment/house on the civy side of the fence (not a military single quarter).

The other way to become entitled to PMQs is to get married. Or the date the child is born (because on that day the military member legally and technically does have a dependant - his/her child-).


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## PteMacPooie (20 Feb 2006)

Check out para 5.

CFAO 19-41 -- COMMON-LAW RELATIONSHIPS



PURPOSE
1.     This order amplifies  QR&O 1.075 insofar as it relates to the
recognition of common-law relationships by the Canadian Forces (CF).

RECOGNITION
2.     The criteria for the recognition of marital relationships by the CF
are set out in  QR&O 1.075. That regulation states, in part:
     "(1) For the purposes of Volumes I and III of QR&O, an officer or
          non-commissioned member is considered to be married to a person
          only if the member and the person

          (a)  have gone through a form of marriage recognizable under
               Canadian Law as establishing a legal marriage; or

          (b)  are living in a common-law relationship recognized pursuant
               to paragraph (2) of this article."

3.     The conditions for recognition by the CF of a common-law relationship,
as set out in  QR&O 1.075(2), are as follows:

     "(2) A commanding officer may, upon application by a member in the
          manner prescribed in orders issued by the Chief of the Defence
          Staff, recognize the member's common-law relationship where the
          member establishes by affidavit or statutory declaration signed
          by both persons in the relationship that they:

          (a)  are of opposite sexes;

          (b)  are not prevented by law, for any reason other than one or
               both of them being legally married, from entering into a
               legal marriage in Canada;

          (c)  have resided together as husband and wife continuously for
               at least one year immediately preceding the application or,
               if a child has been born to them, are residing together as
               husband and wife with the child;

          (d)  undertake to hold each other out as husband and wife; and

          (e)  are authorized by law to reside in Canada on a permanent
               basis."

4.     To comply with the phrase "not prevented by law" in subparagraph
(2)(b) of  QR&O 1.075 the parties to the relationship must:

     a.   be of sufficient age to marry without consent in the province or
          territory in which the application is made (18 years outside of
          Canada), or have obtained the necessary consent of a parent or
          guardian;

     b.   have sufficient mental capacity to lawfully consent to the
          relationship; and

     c.   not be related to each other to a degree that would preclude a
          valid marriage under the law of the province in which they are
          residing (Ontario law if outside Canada).

5.     [size=10pt]*The continuous period of at least one year referred to in subparagraph
(2)(c) of  QR&O 1.075 may include periods of involuntary separation for
such reasons as temporary duty, attached posting or unaccompanied posting
(eg, a six-month UN tour). However, the couple must have resided together
as husband and wife during the remainder of the one-year period .*[/size]


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## Roy Harding (20 Feb 2006)

Just a quick word from an old curmudgeon here - then I'll leave the thread.

If you are in a long-term relationship (IE - long enough to be considered common-law by the military - 1 year), and you are committed to that relationship, why not get married??  The legal effect is the same as common-law.

I find the whole idea of "declaring common-law status" for the sole purpose of obtaining military housing repugnant, shallow, and rife with the potential for future problems in the relationship.

As stated in the first sentence - I'm an old curmudgeon and therefore, from your point of view, probably don't "understand" modern relationships - on the other hand, maybe I'm right.  Your call.

Good luck to you.


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## ZipperHead (20 Feb 2006)

> 5.     The continuous period of at least one year referred to in subparagraph
> (2)(c) of  QR&O 1.075 may include periods of involuntary separation for
> such reasons as temporary duty, attached posting or unaccompanied posting
> (eg, a six-month UN tour). However, the couple must have resided together
> as husband and wife during the remainder of the one-year period .



I'm not a lawyer (not even of the barrack block variety), but this looks intended to covers per already in a unit residing at their home base, not somebody undergoing basic trg/QL3/etc.  

I had a soldier in my troop go through the common-law status business, and while it didn't seem "above board" to me (he and his missus were living in his parents house), that still counted as living together. From the sounds of what you had defined, I would say that you are not in a situation where the CF will do much for you, and I would be hesitant to use someone's "I heard of a guy......" or "somebody on Army.ca told me that I was entitled to....." as anything solid. And resist the temptation to lie, and say that you were living together for a year (many people have done so): you would at that point be considered common-law (i.e equiv to marriage) and also subject to disciplinary action WHEN "they" find out ("they" always seem to find out....)

Good luck, and 6 months goes by pretty quick (especially when you get avoid all the bouts of her morning sickness and late night cravings  ;D )

Al


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## geo (21 Feb 2006)

if you live in Quebec and are living together for 12 months.... you're common law and in the eyes of the Provincial gov't...... YOU"RE MARRIED! might as well take care of the paperwork


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## AirForceWife (22 Feb 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Shadowcat:
> 
> There are PMQs (for married people) and there are those PMQs that are designated as ESQs (Enhanced Single's Quarters) on some Bases.
> 
> ...



In Kingston, our neighbour was single and had his girlfriend that he met a couple months before , move in.  He just asked for permission to have her move into the Q and it was granted.

On another note.... an easy way to just get a Q.... Elope!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Feb 2006)

So you _KNOW HE ASKED AND GOT PERMISSION_, or he _TOLD _ you he asked and got permission?


If not you could be giving out the wrong impression to these young uns....


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## WCST (23 Feb 2006)

First of all, congrats on having a baby. Now you both need to confirm it and decide what you're going to do from here.

I'm not going to tell you to get married. If you want to stay common-law, then that's what's right for you at this time. I AM going to tell you that:

Your girlfriend will survive the 6 months away (I thought basic was much shorter than this, but it's been a while since I took it  ) from you. Morning sickness or not  :, as long as she can talk to you at least every second day (invest in a phone card), things will work out. Communication goes a long way to making any relationship last. My husband was at sea for 6 months while I was at home with a newborn. Believe me, I wish he'd have been gone during my pregnancy and not after I had the baby.

Once you know where you're going to be for your QL3 trg (I'm assuming it's either Halifax or Esquimalt based on your user name), then you can ask for help from your Chain of Comd in assisting you with getting your g/f to move closer to you if that's what you both decide. If you make her your NOK, then you're entitled to LTA and reverse LTA to go see her (or she you) once a year. Perhaps you can even get a SISIP loan to bring her out and set her up in an apartment until you're allowed to claim common-law or move off base.

Contacting the recruiting centre is also a good suggestion, however remember their bottom line - they want recruits and many places will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to get you to sign. Ask them to show you the policies that they're quoting you.

Good luck with whatever you chose.

M :brickwall:


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## NavyShooter (28 Feb 2006)

Gidday,

Firstoff, a baby is usually not a "problem" as such...they grow into that status later in life   so perhaps Congratulations are in order first.

The timing may not be the best for the three of you, but if you're heading off shortly, you'll get most of your initial training done, and may be posted to a new base before the young'un pops out.

I was away for 2/3 of my wife's last pregnancy, and the little guy popped out fine last month.  Now I'm at sea again.

There's some good stuff in this thread regarding what you can do for quarters, and such on base.  

I'll suggest seeing a doc and getting it confirmed.

I'll suggest that whatever decision you and your significant other make should be done together.  

I'll suggest getting ahold of the recruiters and bringng them into the loop.

What follows that is based on what you and she decide, and then what the recruiters are able to help you with.  It's not so bad as you think.  I don't know what the recruits earn nowadays, but I know for sure they earn a lot more than the $1225 a month I got when I was in basic.  Once you're done basic, you're making the better part of $30K or so....a liveable wage.  

So, congrats to you, and I hope your dilemna isn't keeping you up too many nights.  The baby will later   

NavyShooter


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## big bad john (28 Feb 2006)

NavyShooter good post, good advice!


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## MuffinMix (19 Mar 2006)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> If you are in a long-term relationship (IE - long enough to be considered common-law by the military - 1 year), and you are committed to that relationship, why not get married??  The legal effect is the same as common-law.



Yes, and you get much better presents!   

But... I did the common-law non-sense for the benefits about 6 months before we actually married.


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