# How to Pack Sleeping Bags



## Joe Blow (2 Aug 2005)

Hi - 

Pardon the question if you will ..just curious really.  When I see images of soldiers with their rucksacks it looks as if whatever is in the compression bag takes up about 1/3 of the load.

What the heck is in there, and is there anything commercial that you are aware of that would improve upon it ..load wise.

Thanks.


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## KevinB (2 Aug 2005)

Army does not issue a compression bag.

The Valice, bag Sleeping (or whatever its called) is a terrible compression sack.  FWIW the Down Sleeping bags that are issued are not the most compacting either.

 I much prefer the Bag Compression - MEC  ;D  
Seriosuly a 64 pattern Ruck with A7A straps will compress any load (but even then you can easily have a valice that is 1/2 the size of you ruck - extra ammo, etc)-- anyone using a 82 is just hurting themselves needessly


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## Joe Blow (2 Aug 2005)

So, the only thing in there is a down sleeping bag?  It's huge!  (...but light weight?)

 I understand that some personalization of kit is acceptable outside of garrison.  Is there a preferred alternative?  The folks hiking up Everest can't be hauling anything that huge.. (as an extreme ex.)

(Also ..my bad ..but I don't understand "FWIW")

Thanks,
Joe


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## KevinB (2 Aug 2005)

For What its Worth - FWIW


Depending upon what your doing you may have a lot of extra stuff shoved in your valice.


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## paracowboy (2 Aug 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Depending upon what your doing you may have a lot of extra stuff shoved in your valice.


quite the understatement, there.


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## KevinB (2 Aug 2005)

Not everyone is cool like us though  

Some actually think that #35lbs is a tough ruck load...  :


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## GerryCan (2 Aug 2005)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> So, the only thing in there is a down sleeping bag?   It's huge!   (...but light weight?)



That's not the only thing you may have in your valice. Depending on the time of year you may have 2 sleeping bags (inner and outer), a ground sheet, a ranger blanket and whatever else your heart may desire.
I'm in the market right now for the Snugpak sleeping bag which compresses to about 1/3 the size of the issued sleeping bags and is good to -30 below zero, with that and your bivi bag that's all you should need. Oh yeah I forgot the bivi bag in there too, a great piece of kit.


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## KevinB (2 Aug 2005)

GerryCan said:
			
		

> That's not the only thing you may have in your valice. Depending on the time of year you may have 2 sleeping bags (inner and outer), a ground sheet, a ranger blanket and whatever else your heart may desire.
> I'm in the market right now for the Snugpak sleeping bag which compresses to about 1/3 the size of the issued sleeping bags and is good to -30 below zero, with that and your bivi bag that's all you should need. Oh yeah I forgot the bivi bag in there too, a great piece of kit.



Rations - Ammo - POL - batteries - AMMO - AMMO - Rations....


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## GO!!! (2 Aug 2005)

and depending on how retarded your sub unit is - shaving kit - towel - shower sandals - bug bar .......


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## 2 Cdo (2 Aug 2005)

Don't forget your combat jacket! Whoever designed the bugout kit list for the military definitely forgot that we need a place for AMMO and rations. Op Apollo involved rucksacks filled with AMMO, rations, WATER and maybe some spare socks or other lightweight Gucci kit. Bugout kit lists in the battalion are a waste of time! :threat:


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## Scoobie Newbie (2 Aug 2005)

2 Cdo please tell that to the CSM's.   Seriously.

don't forget your black betty.

I'm sure Kev has bivi bag shelter that you pull out and springs into its formed shape.   lol


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## kyleg (2 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I'm sure Kev has bivi bag shelter that you pull out and springs into its formed shape.  lol



Lol! Does it light the coleman - excuse me, Whisperlite - and cook your rats for you too?  ;D

Cheers,
Pinky


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## GerryCan (2 Aug 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Rations - Ammo - POL - batteries - AMMO - AMMO - Rations....



No room for that stuff Kevin, just the kitchen sink...and maybe my cbt jacket


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## pappy (3 Aug 2005)

35 lbs? hell our own personal peice of pole, telephone weighed more then that.  sense of homur... CLS =  "Combat Load Simulator" strapped to a bloody Alice Pack. that and running in a gas mask....

Sometimes I think USMC stands for Uncle Sams Machocisit Children

Oh well better then the ROK Marines, they didn't call them ROK's for nothing, lil suckers went everywhere with a pack full of rocks, and at a running pace too, glad they're on our side.


haha I like that comment "Light weight" in reference to the Issue sleeping bag!  sure thier light as compare to a base plate for a 81mm 
or a 4-duce..... oh shite they don't call them "heavy weapons" for giggles and grins....


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## Joe Blow (3 Aug 2005)

The Valice - A sack for the sleeping bag and whatever else you think you need.

..always wondered about that.  Thx for the word gents.  

It sounds like you have pretty wide latitude when deciding what you might want to bring with you.. depending upon the retardation factor of your sub unit. ..Shower sandals? ..Really?


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## Spr.Earl (3 Aug 2005)

Pappy I met the ROK Marines back in 73 in Inchon when Martial Law was the order of the day and say no more.


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## kyleg (3 Aug 2005)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> It sounds like you have pretty wide latitude when deciding what you might want to bring with you.. depending upon the retardation factor of your sub unit. ..Shower sandals? ..Really?



They always tell us to wear sandals in the showers so we don't get athlete's foot. And yes, some units actually make you shave on a weekend exercise... What a load of crap. If i'm on tour, fine, I'll shave. But when I'm out for less than 48 hours I see no point in wasting time removing a little stubble at the cost of precious time during which we could actually do some useful training.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## bullet counter (3 Aug 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> They always tell us to wear sandals in the showers so we don't get athlete's foot. And yes, some units actually make you shave on a weekend exercise... What a load of crap. If i'm on tour, fine, I'll shave. But when I'm out for less than 48 hours I see no point in wasting time removing a little stubble at the cost of precious time during which we could actually do some useful training.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pinky



It's called hygiene.  If you can't take care of yourself for less than 48 hours how do you expect to do it for six months?  Besides, how much "useful" training are you really missing out on in the 2 minutes it takes you to shave?


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## kyleg (3 Aug 2005)

So are you telling me you think shaving on a weekend ex is completely necessary and provides a valuable lesson for troops?


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## GerryCan (3 Aug 2005)

It may provide a valuable lesson to some troops...some people out there are dirty billies and won't take care of themselves unless they're told to. Me, I've never been to field and not had to shave, not in basic, battle school or in battalion, or on tour for that matter. I'm not sure what your unit does as all are different, but it's not a habit I'd fall into. Yeah it's a pain in the ass that we all know, but does it take up that much of your time?


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## bullet counter (3 Aug 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> So are you telling me you think shaving on a weekend ex is completely necessary and provides a valuable lesson for troops?



Obviously the situation will dictate what you do.   You're not going to stop in the middle of an attack to shave.   As far as providing a valuable lesson for the troops, absolutely.   Every soldier needs to be able to look after himself.   That includes staying heathly.   You don't stay healthy by being a dirt pig whether its during a weekend Ex or a 6 month deployment.   Its like sleeping and eating.   Do it while you can 'cause you don't know when your next chance might be.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Aug 2005)

Nothing like a quick shave and a birdbath to make you feel human again   All I ask of my guys, given the tactical situation is to shave every 24 hrs, preferably, by noon. Myself, I like doing it just before I rack, get the cam off, shave and have as comfortable a sleep as possible. Get up, cam up, and go to work. My $00.02.


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## kyleg (3 Aug 2005)

bullet counter said:
			
		

> Obviously the situation will dictate what you do.  You're not going to stop in the middle of an attack to shave.  As far as providing a valuable lesson for the troops, absolutely.  Every soldier needs to be able to look after himself.  That includes staying heathly.  You don't stay healthy by being a dirt pig whether its during a weekend Ex or a 6 month deployment.  Its like sleeping and eating.  Do it while you can 'cause you don't know when your next chance might be.



Touché, I stand corrected.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## GO!!! (4 Aug 2005)

Further to Ammo's post,

Ablutions and hygiene are a part of trg, I just happen to think that ablutions should happen in the rear, and that's where my follow up kit usually is!

I feel for ya Gerry Can, but I can honestly say the first thing that gets stop dropped in the field for us is shaving. We seem to have the common sense to let the good things come in threes - hot meal, showers, then I'll shave.

I just think that the shave kit has no place on a patrol.


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## pappy (5 Aug 2005)

hummm you don't think being required to shave in the field has anything to do with, huh whats the word discipline? 

hey I've been there, had to shave in the Corps in the desert when there was barely enough water to drink...
and in weather so cold if you didn't shave fast enough the water would freeze...  Sucks

One thing no one of you have mentiented.... one circumstance we all hope never happens... Biological-chemical warfare....

Next time your scheduled to go to the gas chamber, don't shave for a week or so and see if your mask seals correctly, ask your RSM / First Sgt.   I'm sure he'll get enough of a chuckle to let you experiment....

It's more then hygiene....


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## Manimal (5 Aug 2005)

i think the tradition, and the fact it's policy says a lot about it. and the gas stuff too  :evil:


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## GerryCan (5 Aug 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I just think that the shave kit has no place on a patrol.



I agree 100%, although my unit doesn't. After all's said and done, brew up, shower if avail. and then shave. But if you've got the time ie; hide routine, I really don't see a reason not to. Like recceguy said, it's a morale thing and it gets the cam paint off easily.

How the hell did we get on this topic anyways?


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## GO!!! (5 Aug 2005)

I agree with you on the gas mask effectiveness pappy, but four points come to mind.

1) the NBC gear in my unit rides with the quartermaster and is "on call", so it comes forward with your shave kit anyway.

2) Tests have proven that in a deliberate NBC attack, 78% of troops would become casualties - even if they were in TOPP high prior to the exposure.

3) A tasking of the Pioneer platoon (when we had it) is to conduct NBC surveys, and those dudes often more closely represent ZZ top than soldiers!

4) It obviously has nothing to do with operational effectiveness, as sikhs, muslims and anyone else with a cultural reason is not required to shave.

As for discipline, well, I consider the soldier who maintains his weapon, kit and body to a high standard while performing his duties well to be disciplined. Fit and ready to fight. Who cares about some hair on his face in the field?

IMHO, shaving in the field is a throwback to the bad ole days, perpetuated by a CoC that cannot bring itself to challenge old ways of thinking.

(Sigh) Wait until I run this army....


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## 2 Cdo (5 Aug 2005)

Go, I concur 100%! If we are still measuring how good, and professional a soldier is by how clean shaven he is while on Ex or Ops we are definitely hurting. I guess all the unshaven SF fellows I have worked with, run into were a dishevelled, unprofessional mob! Shaving in the field, whether you do or don't, means nothing when compared to how one maintains his weapon and kit!
As a side note, I personally HATE shaving, and loved my time spent in Pioneer Platoon! ;D


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## geo (5 Aug 2005)

Anybody been thru FRY / BH and has had to deal with "irregulars" and all the other riff raff that simply ruin it for everyone else?
Troops in the field, all troops in the field should be distinguishable from the mob. An organized force, that is uniform (all same kit) AND looks after itself (yup - shaving self too) will give the local population that warm & fuzzy feeling that comes with the professional confidence projected by our troops.

WRT the sleeping bag carrier - not really much of anything but, when you're working out of the back of an APC, you can carry most of your personal kit inside - instead of outside... don't recommend carrying 10 rucks in the back of a track.


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## GO!!! (5 Aug 2005)

Sorry, I'm not clear on the Engineer motto, but ours is to "close with and destroy the enemy." 

We also have a creed and 10 commandments.

Nowhere do these state that the locals should feel warm and fuzzy about my presence, furthermore, I would prefer that they felt debilitating fear, so that I can do my job and go home, with out worrying about them getting in the way.

I would consider a fit, alert soldier with a bit of a scruff to appear far more disciplined than a teletubby in uniform who just wants to be loved, but had the time to shave.

When I run the army, all those who achieve marksman and gold on the coopers test are excused shaving!


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## 2 Cdo (6 Aug 2005)

Perfect! ;D
I nominate Go!!! for CDS!


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## Fusaki (6 Aug 2005)

Agreed.

The way I see it, if you have the chance to shower, then you also have the chance to shave...

But to bring a shave kit into a patrol base? Thats a half pound extra weight you don't need. I'm a firm believer that just because you're fit enough to ruck hard on PT, it doesn't mean your kit should be heavier on EX. Less weight means more energy to fight the good fight, and the little things like shave kits add up. A shave kit should be in your follow up kit, but there are other more important things to go in your ruck.


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## geo (8 Aug 2005)

well Go!, if you aren't familiar with what Sappers do in the field and where they happen to be when the crap hits the fan.... you haven't been paying attention.... cause we're right up there - opening the breach for you to go thru 

How much weight are you talking about when you are bitching about the weight of your shaving gear? you're blowin it way out of proportion. If your shaving gear feels that heavy... one of your mates has slipped a couple of paperweights into your ruck while you weren't looking. Am not preaching a fanatical application of shaving .... but to do it when convenient  - there should not be a problem there.


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## pappy (8 Aug 2005)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> Agreed.
> 
> The way I see it, if you have the chance to shower, then you also have the chance to shave...
> 
> But to bring a shave kit into a patrol base? Thats a half pound extra weight you don't need. I'm a firm believer that just because you're fit enough to ruck hard on PT, it doesn't mean your kit should be heavier on EX. Less weight means more energy to fight the good fight, and the little things like shave kits add up. A shave kit should be in your follow up kit, but there are other more important things to go in your ruck.



A disposable razon weighs 1/2 pound?  I'm assuming you have already a bar of soap and wash towle in your kit? at least you need to clean up once in a while, adding a razor can't add 1/2 more pound.


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## GO!!! (8 Aug 2005)

Pappy and geo,

Ask yourselves, why are we shaving at all? In garrison yes. In a firm fwd base, yes. But really, why in the field? There is no good answer. It is one of those "because" things.

Try to get out of the mindset of "I did it, so it must be correct". 

And not to belittle your efforts RSM, but my last ruck in an operation weighed 121lbs - swear to god- I weighed it at the airhead. The temperatures were in the high 40s - that's Centigrade - and I did'nt bring a sleeping bag cuz I carried water and ammo instead. 

So yeah, I left the shave kit at the base, and (bless his soul) the CO tore a strip off one CSM who tried to make his coy shave with their precious water.

If this happened in Baden, Lahr or Cyprus, please correct me, but we do things differently now, and our kit and rules must adapt!

But - I did shave as soon as I came back, cuz you can't get a hot meal with a scruff!


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## Joe Blow (9 Aug 2005)

Lets change the title of this thread to; "Shaving Kit ...A Time and a Place?"  (Or something like that.)  

Edit: Grammar


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Aug 2005)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Lets change the title of this thread to; "Shaving Kit ...A Time and a Place?"   (Or something like that.)
> 
> Edit: Grammar



JB,

In deference to your profile, MYOB. You're out of your league.

GO!,

I'l l agree, to a point, but where do you draw the line? A two day patrol, or two weeks on ex? I don't think anyone is saying, while your on the job (patrol), you have to shave. My 24 hr rule doesn't apply to guys on a dismounted OP. However, when downtime presents itself, and your going to rack for a few to five hours, a quick wash and a two minute shave isn't asking much. My troops have the advantage of vehicles to carry their shaving gear. To say "I'm in field for a month, I'm not shaving" is a statement without foundation or substantiation for reason.


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## RangerRay (9 Aug 2005)

So, sleeping bags...

Is the 3 ton "down" sleeping bag still the standard issue bag for Army?

I got a civy MEC bag that is a fraction of the weight, much warmer and even somewhat water proof to boot!

Mind you, it's also bright purple, so it probably wouldn't be appropriate to bring on ex...  ;D


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## Joe Blow (9 Aug 2005)

> JB,
> 
> In deference to your profile, MYOB. You're out of your league.



I have not been anything but deferent, polite and respectful to the others on this thread, in recognition of the obvious discrepancies in experience ..ie. my 'none' to everyone else's 'some'.

With that approach noted - and with respect - I would suggest that I am not out of my league as this is a thread of my own creation. (I have stayed firmly 'within my lane' as they say.)  ..The suggestion regarding a name change for it was intended to be constructive change to it.

Joe.

PS: I do not understand "MYOB".

(Edit:  ..Really do what ever you want with it.. Make it a shaving thread, or a sleeping bag thread..  I'm just reading.)


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## GerryCan (9 Aug 2005)

MYOB = Mind Your Own Busininess, Correct?

DBA = Death By Acronym ;D


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## Springroll (9 Aug 2005)

Maybe all you guys should start taking some estrogen to slow your hair growth down....hehehe ;D

Now in all seriousness, I think the guys should have to shave, regardless of the length of the ex.
Not only is it professionalism, but it is also for your own safety.

BTW, the best item on the market, other than soap, water and a scrub brush, to take off cam stick would be cold cream.
Just a little hint for those who hate taking forever to get the crap off your skin.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Aug 2005)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> I have not been anything but deferent, polite and respectful to the others on this thread, in recognition of the obvious discrepancies in experience ..ie. my 'none' to everyone else's 'some'.
> 
> With that approach noted - and with respect - I would suggest that I am not out of my league as this is a thread of my own creation. (I have stayed firmly 'within my lane' as they say.)   ..The suggestion regarding a name change for it was intended to be constructive change to it.
> 
> ...




Sorry JB, caught me at a bad time. My apologies.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> BTW, the best item on the market, other than soap, water and a scrub brush, to take off cam stick would be cold cream.
> Just a little hint for those who hate taking forever to get the crap off your skin.



Wrong. Wet naps are better. Cleaner, easier, less messy and can be used for more things.


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## Island Ryhno (9 Aug 2005)

Oye, while I loved my Noxema, it wasn't much use in the field. Wet naps however, it's like a travelling bidet!


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## Springroll (9 Aug 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Wrong. Wet naps are better. Cleaner, easier, less messy and can be used for more things.



I haven't worn cam stick in 12 years, so I didn't know about the wet nap, but I have carried those for personal cleanliness, 
and will keep the cold cream for my face...


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## paracowboy (9 Aug 2005)

shaving in the field is stupid. The length of the hair on my head, my sideburns, or my whiskers has absolutely no impact on my ability to shoot, move, or communicate.  
Shaving in the field has been proven to be less hygenic than goin' fuzzy. It's bad for the skin and it can lead to infection. This was studied and proven in (I believe) '97.
When not forced to shave, I don't. Period. If told, I will, but otherwise I won't shave for the entire Ex, no matter how long. And, the odd part is, even after 6 weeks of not shaving, I can still shoot as straight, run as fast, hump as far, and speak as clearly.


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## Springroll (9 Aug 2005)

When I am out in the field, I am not shaving....period! 

 ;D


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## Armymedic (9 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> When I am out in the field, I am not shaving....period!
> 
> ;D



I never met a woman who was actually "required" to shave in the filed....

Men on the other are always required to shave their.

Now is this not a sexist double standard? I think we should all be the same an require women to shave thier faces as well whether they need it or not.


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## genesis98 (9 Aug 2005)

Just a side note isn't shaving also required so that your gas mas fits "properly" to your face, I do recall hearing of   people with a shaving chit having to carry vasoline with them for this purpose. I know the idea of a gas attack is very remote. I'm just adding a reason for shaving.


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## Springroll (9 Aug 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I never met a woman who was actually "required" to shave in the filed....
> 
> Men on the other are always required to shave their.
> 
> Now is this not a sexist double standard? I think we should all be the same an require women to shave thier faces as well whether they need it or not.



If it will make you happy, I will shave my legs once a week, ok??? ;D


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## qjdb (9 Aug 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I never met a woman who was actually "required" to shave in the filed....



Funny, when she mentioned that, my first thought was NOT her face or legs.

My Bad, I know. <smacks self on forehead> 

qjdb

ps. I know that is 'salute', but it works for a forehead smack as well, especially since it is left handed  ;D


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## Springroll (9 Aug 2005)

qjdb said:
			
		

> Funny, when she mentioned that, my first thought was NOT her face or legs.
> 
> My Bad, I know. <smacks self on forehead>
> 
> qjdb



That was what I was getting at...I don't want those nasty little sand fleas to be getting me...   ;D


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## GO!!! (9 Aug 2005)

As I said before, 

The gas mask is not part of the order of battle for my unit 99% of the time, so the gas mask argument is out. 

Also, I'm not in a mech unit, and it is uncommon for us to have dedicated tpt to carry our kit around in the field, so the weight argument is out,  a shave kit is one more thing I don't need, it goes in the follow up kit.

Discipline? I can think of far better ways to measure discipline than the removal of facial hair (see the rest of this thread) 

And, as paracowboy said, my facial hair has no bearing on my ability to do my job - period.

One more thing, if facial hair and discipline were so incompatible, why are instructors in WATC permitted to grow wild, unkempt beards every winter? Are they unprofessional? What about the Pioneers (whose duties include NBC surveys incidentally) are they unprofessional? And how about the Navy.....


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## Ex-Dragoon (9 Aug 2005)

> And how about the Navy.....



Beards in the Navy are being phased out as they_ supposedly_ interfere with the seal on our Chemox and Gas Masks......ummmm yeah right. Never had a problem here, I could see those old crusty type petty officers with the Grizzly Adams type of beards but those of us that kept it neat and tidy never had an issue.....


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## Springroll (9 Aug 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Beards in the Navy are being phased out as they_ supposedly_ interfere with the seal on our Chemox and Gas Masks......ummmm yeah right. Never had a problem here, I could see those old crusty type petty officers with the Grizzly Adams type of beards but those of us that kept it neat and tidy never had an issue.....



I know a few old salty dogs who keep theirs nice and kept and have never had a problem...


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## beach_bum (10 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Now in all seriousness, I think the guys should have to shave, regardless of the length of the ex.
> Not only is it professionalism, but it is also for your own safety.





			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> I know a few old salty dogs who keep theirs nice and kept and have never had a problem...



Which is it?


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## NavComm (10 Aug 2005)

Is it just me or has this thread been completely high jacked? It's titled Sleeping bag roll up... ? and the last 2 pages are about shaving....when did the sleeping bag part end and the shaving begin? Must be 3 pages back.

Nevermind, I'll scroll .....


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## Britney Spears (10 Aug 2005)

In his book * A Bridge Too Far*, Cornelius Ryan gives an account of how, in the final days of Market Garden,, the CO of one of the Para battalions (I forget which one) passed down an order that all men must shave before withdrawing across the Rhine, which was enforced. After I read that section I always have this mental image of some bug eyed RSM standing at the river crossing, calling to attention and inspecting the 30 or so survivors of the battalion to ensure that they were shaven before withdrawing, while in the distance the Panzers slowly coming into view....  How's that for precedence? 

See GO!!, you would never have survived Arhnem if you didn't pack your shave kit, would you?


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## RangerRay (10 Aug 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> Is it just me or has this thread been completely high jacked? It's titled Sleeping bag roll up... ? and the last 2 pages are about shaving....when did the sleeping bag part end and the shaving begin? Must be 3 pages back.
> 
> Nevermind, I'll scroll .....



I posted about sleeping bags yesterday... ???


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## NavComm (10 Aug 2005)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> I posted about sleeping bags yesterday... ???



lol this thread just took on a life of it's own


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## Springroll (10 Aug 2005)

beach_bum said:
			
		

> Which is it?



There is a difference between army and navy....


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## beach_bum (10 Aug 2005)

So, you got your opinion about the men in the army shaving from where?  I believe several people in this thread have already shown that not shaving everyday on EX is not a safety issue, nor does it hinder their performance making them any less professional.


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## Springroll (10 Aug 2005)

Are you asking me where I got my opinion from or is the question directed towards someone else?

I'm just checking.


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## beach_bum (11 Aug 2005)

I was asking you.  I'm just curious since you are neither male or in the army what you are basing your opinion on?


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

Sorry for taking so long to reply back. I was at the Er.

Now to answer your question, I base my opinion on what serving male members have told me. 
My husband serves with the Navy, my soon to be brother in law is in the army, and the views of my multiple CF friends.


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## pappy (13 Aug 2005)

bingo - "wet naps  -- other uses"  ever try to wipe your bottom with a hand full of cold cream?  maybe in the bedroom, but not in the field  haha oh boy am I gonna catch flak for that comment.

Well being a red head I can go a few days with out a beard being too noticable...

Shaving on Field Ex's well no biggie in my opinion, besides its a field ex....  it's supposed to be uncomfortable and a pain in the rear.
in a war zone, more important things to focus on at that point reality takes over.

Old flashback story....
while in the USMC we did some hostage rescue ops, to make things more interesting the powers to be decided to drop some woman Marines in civilian clothes from mainside to make it a bit more realistic.....  We'd been in the field for over 60 some days without showers (or much hot food) or even much time to take care of those beautiy treatments.... All that have lived out of a ruck for long can explain to those that haven't the rather noxious smell one accumulate after that long.....  

Imigine the Woman Marines reaction to us....  The WM's smelled all perdy being the last time they saw a bar of soap was earlyier that morning....
Well the ones of us who still had a sense of smell...

Imigine now the looks on these WM's faces when we herded them into the back of an AAV-7 for a "short trip to the waiting ships off shore"
35 people shoved into that Amtrack.... hatches closed....  mix of dirty smelly field Marines and some once clean smelling Woman Marines....

One WM asked us while holding her nose....  "when was the last time you guys took a shower?"
that got everyone laughing pretty hard.... after the laugher died down, a Marine looked down at his watch and clamly said "lets see it's almost 1400 hours now.... one, two... 6  WEEKS ago Ma'am"

She turned a little green after that....

we where in the back of that Amtrack for over 3 hours before reaching the ships off shore....  I think a ferw of those women held thier breath the whole time....

Ran into one of them a few weeks later at the PX, she said she had to thow her clothes out cause she couldn't get the smell out of them....


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

Oh My Goodness!!!

That was an awesome story!!   ;D ;D ;D


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## Jarnhamar (13 Aug 2005)

Shaving is a saftey concern?

We're not talking about that whole gas mask thing are we?  
If anything shaving every day gives troops a rash. Get bad enough and you need to sendthem up top to see a medic. I know when i have to shave every day in the field my face is destroyed.

Why can't we be adults about it. Troops shave every couple days in the field. Even ever second day saves my face from a hell of a razor burn.
Theres a difference between in the field at a CP or living out of tents and in the field living out of your ruck sack


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## mcnutt_p (14 Aug 2005)

I agree with shaving at night before going to ground. It not only cleans of the cam paint and dirt from the day, but it is part of a personal hygine routine. If shaving is not enforced then there are going to be people that crap out on the hygine.  

McNutt


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## Bomber (14 Aug 2005)

No one will "crap out on the hygine".  Once a guy goes a few days and the rest of his section ID's him as a dirty billy or a Scuz bag, he will start cleaning himself a bit better.  I only once encountered a guy that was a filth monster, in Meaford in 97, a guy showered three times on a 6 week course, and only at 3 in the morning, he was really homophobic, and I guess he figured that a bunch of guys would jump his fat arse if they saw him naked.  He didn't go so far in his army career as he had a tendency to store his water and gatorade bottles in the pouches of the ruck carried by the man in front of him on ruck marches.  A guy with a devil tattoed on his arm put him in his placeand then some when he took his ruck off and found a bunch of empty bottles and got an excuse of "well, you are used to marching so I figured you wouldn't care."  Three hits were heard, a fist to a face, a body to the ground, and the "safety vehicle" hitting the speed limit on the way to the MIR.


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## mcnutt_p (14 Aug 2005)

Bomber said:
			
		

> a guy showered three times on a 6 week course



There are a few of them out there, and regular shaving in the field reinforces the need to keep one clean. 

McNutt


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Aug 2005)

I think this one's done for now.


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## Seatech (19 Apr 2007)

I just received my army kit for IAP this summer and I want to pack up my stuff as best I can before I ship it to Quebec.

Can someone please tell me what the BEST way is to get the sleeping bag and liner in the bag for them. It probably sounds like a stupid question but I hope someone can help.


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## Kamaro (19 Apr 2007)

If you want to pack it to use it on your training, you can attach the liner to the inside of the sleeping bags, then lay the bag out, fold it in half width-wise (so it's long and skinny) then roll it up and tuck it into your bivvy bag. stuff your ground sheet, sleeping bag headwarmer thing, and bivvy bag into the sleeping bag carrier, stick the washbasin on top and you're good to go.

If you just want to pack it for travel, get a sleeping bag compressor from an outdoor shop, compress the sleeping bag down to the size of a bag of chips and laugh your way to the shipping company.


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## Gunner98 (19 Apr 2007)

Do not fold or roll your sleeping bag as all of the down filling will bunch up and make for an uncomfortable sleep. Stuff your sleeping bag into the valise.  Try to pack it in the reverse to which you may require it.

1. Sleeping bag(s)
2. Liner
3. Shelter half
Last -  Washbasin


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## Wookilar (19 Apr 2007)

And he really means STUFF! The valise is a compression sack (well, it's supposed to be a compression sack). Anyway, Gunner is completely correct, those bags are meant to be crammed in there. If the valise is (fairly) new, it may be one of the water-proof ones...don't trust it. Line your valise with the bivvy bag (as long as there are no holes in it) and stuff your bags in to that. stuff stuff stuff it all down, squeeze the air out, fold the funny shaped lip of the bivy bag over itself, groundsheet, wash basin.

If there is enough room for a pillow (no, I am not kidding. I take a pillow everywhere. Not a gargantuan one or anything, just right for my little noggin) in with your sleeping bags, then you've done it right.


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## Journeyman (19 Apr 2007)

It isn't what you asked, but.....pack heavy kit high. I'll try that again -- heavy kit high. While I may be thinking radio batteries and 84 rounds, you may be thinking granola bars. Right now, it's the same (in time, there'll be a WO to grip your kit load). Heavy high.

As for the proper pillow or care-bear fleece, I'll leave that to the experts.


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## PAT-Platoon (20 Apr 2007)

Any tips on the best way to pack your boots? We're supposed to pack our boots in our ruck fo the next field ex.

Whats the best way? Fold it over and put it in the bottom, or leave it in the flap outside the actual ruck?

Also whats the best way to pack fleece? It takes up *so* much room!


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## willy (20 Apr 2007)

How about this for an idea?

Ask your freakin' section commander!

Your profile says you're on BMQ.  If I were your BMQ section commander, and I found out that you were taking advice from the internet rather than coming and asking me, it would not be a good day for you.


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## PAT-Platoon (20 Apr 2007)

willy said:
			
		

> How about this for an idea?
> 
> Ask your freakin' section commander!
> 
> Your profile says you're on BMQ.  If I were your BMQ section commander, and I found out that you were taking advice from the internet rather than coming and asking me, it would not be a good day for you.



Im not taking advice, Im looking for any tips or experiences *other* people may have. Isn't that what this forum is about? I want to hear other people's opinions on their methods of packing their boots.


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## willy (20 Apr 2007)

Have fun in the army, kid.


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## PAT-Platoon (20 Apr 2007)

willy said:
			
		

> Have fun in the army, kid.



Thank you, I will have fun. Now back to the topic at hand. What is people's experience with packing spare boots in the ruck. I'm toying with the idea of packing it in my valise. Has anyone tried that?


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## Seatech (20 Apr 2007)

I packed it in last night and I was amazed at how much could get in the bag. I was wondering you normally use both liners when you setup camp? 

My experience over my career has been entirely navy and I have zero knowledge about how to set it up when it comes to the field. Any tips or advise on that? I know that there are a bivy bag, a sleeping bag, a liner and then another thinner liner. I assume that one liner is for winter and one is for summer, or is that a wrong assumption?

Thanks for the help on this, you guys are great.


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## Thorvald (20 Apr 2007)

Army-Goon said:
			
		

> Also whats the best way to pack fleece? It takes up *so* much room!



Go buy some LARGE Zip-Loc bags, the double zipper ones.  Fold your fleece top and stuff it in the bag, press all the air out with your knees and then seal.  It will tighten up just like a vacuum sealed bag and be MUCH smaller.

The pants are too large to fit in the large zip locs though with a little effort they might fit, never bothered to try.


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## Shamrock (21 Apr 2007)

Army-Goon said:
			
		

> Im not taking advice, Im looking for any tips or experiences *other* people may have. Isn't that what this forum is about? I want to hear other people's opinions on their methods of packing their boots.



Tie the laces off the valise attachment straps and let them hang low.


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## Armymedic (21 Apr 2007)

Unless it is the dead of winter...which it is not anymore, then the second (inner) part of yur sleeping bag, and you fleece pants are somewhat redundant. If you have any choice at all, leave them at home. Keep your outer and your ranger blanket(or liner).

Boots- bottom of valise, inside a plastic bag (small garbage bag). Most people do not pack spare boots in thier rucks(lots of fresh socks and/or goretex socks). Boots usually follow in a kit bag with your follow on gear.

A smart thing to do as well, is put a fresh pr of socks and tshirt (underwear too if you so choose) so that before you sleep you can change into the dry warm stuff instead of digging thru your ruck to get it. Science has proved those with warm feet sleep better. Shaving kit, if not on the top of your valise, should be in the top pocket of your ruck.

There are so many little personal tips that work well for alot of people. Try them all twice to see if they are right for you.


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## Can-american (7 May 2007)

lol  : best way to pack? Really depends on what the packing list your CO wants to put out. If it is anything like the US army then it will drive you up the wall espically after you pac everything and they decide because there is some moron you need to lay your sh*t out with his because now all of you may be morons.  My advice is take what you use least for the duffle bags then move to your ruck, stuff least important at the bottom.  Boots are easy to fold after being broken in, stuffing your sleeping bag along with liner and cover. I find sometimes sticking my sleeping system on the outside is alot easier, just use some clips and lock it on the back.  I find sleeping mate on the bottom is better then on top because you never know when you have to get in your bag.  In my ruck I place half my sleep system, one uniform complete, 6 pairs socks, 3 t shirts and wet wipes.  Good luck


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## blackyboy (12 May 2007)

i just got out of two months of feild ex and to answer you immediate question, sort them out at the very top of your ruck, when you stuff them in the bottow or middle you end up loosing alot of space, and in a pinch on at the top and one in the middle with your shirts and socks around them. For me though, i only packed 6 pairs of sox, one t, one extra combat pants and my boots along with my hygeine kit, if it was colf fleece, and not to forget an extra pair of undies. this will give you a light packand room to pack extras if you need. If you are going on patrol you will love the extra space for food, water and ammo.


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## Jarnhamar (22 May 2007)

> How about this for an idea?
> 
> Ask your freakin' section commander!
> 
> Your profile says you're on BMQ.  If I were your BMQ section commander, and I found out that you were taking advice from the internet rather than coming and asking me, it would not be a good day for you.



Old message I know.

Wat happens when you are his BMQ section commander and your a navy clerk or member of the band?

With all respect, I'd rather risk asking infanteers on the internet at a place like army.ca with 20 years time in.


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 May 2007)

Without reading his mind, he may be refering to following the standard set in BMQ (we all know about being a garatrooper).  Once in BN then seek advice.


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## Adrian_888 (22 May 2007)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> It isn't what you asked, but.....pack heavy kit high. I'll try that again -- heavy kit high. While I may be thinking radio batteries and 84 rounds, you may be thinking granola bars. Right now, it's the same (in time, there'll be a WO to grip your kit load). Heavy high.



??? Wouldent you want heavy kit low so that the weight isint puling you backwards and straining your back?

And did you guys know the new jackets turn into themselves and become a pillow... thats kinda cool, i personally don't bother, most of the time Im just happy to sleep.


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## Greymatters (22 May 2007)

Hmmm... dont they teach this anymore?


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## geo (22 May 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Hmmm... dont they teach this anymore?


the good section commanders do


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## Danjanou (22 May 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> the good section commanders do



And the good Platoon Warrants, Sgt Majors and RSMs make sure that "they" are good section commanders who know what they're supposed to be teaching young troopies or should be. 

Here endeth the lesson.

Locked with the usual caveats etc in reagard to reopening it.


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## MRC3065 (19 Jan 2016)

I've tried searching for the specific topic of whether you roll your sleeping bag or just stuff it into the carrier.
I've tried to find the 82 pattern ruck manual, but no information about how to pack the sleeping bag carrier.

My question is:
I have an 82 pattern rucksack and sleeping bag carrier.
While on course we were given "instruction" on how to pack the ruck sack.  Unfortunately it was fast and furious and just involved stuffing everything into the pack.  
As a result I asked a few people I work with how to pack the sleeping bag (Infantry reserve members, a former recruit instructor, course section 2IC and my dad with 40+ years in).

Dad and recruit instructor tells me to roll it and put it into the carrier.
Others tell me to just jam it in and squish it down.

When stuffing the carrier with the bag, it feels like a sloppy wet diaper on the bottom of the ruck even when squishing it down.  The draw strings on the carrier where the D rings are basically compressing down to nothing leaving a great horde of string to tuck away.
When rolling the bag and placing into the carrier, it's a lot easier to secure the straps and cinch it tight.  But again, D rings are compressed to nothing.

 ???

Is this really a personal preference thing?
Any help to relieve the confusion would be appreciated.


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## George Wallace (19 Jan 2016)

MRC3065 said:
			
		

> I've tried searching for the specific topic of whether you roll your sleeping bag or just stuff it into the carrier.
> I've tried to find the 82 pattern ruck manual, but no information about how to pack the sleeping bag carrier.
> 
> My question is:
> ...



Seriously?



			
				MRC3065 said:
			
		

> Is this really a personal preference thing?



Yes it is.

When it is dark and you have to have all your kit packed up and placed on a truck/LAV/tank/your back......You will do what you can, as fast as you can, the best way possible.  Your personal preference.


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## MRC3065 (19 Jan 2016)

Thanks for helping, I don't think I was searching for the right terms.


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## Old Sweat (19 Jan 2016)

For whatever it is worth, when I was an officer cadet and we were being prepped for our final Phase One exercise in Shilo in December 1960, we were told to stuff our sleeping bags into the carriers. This was because it fluffed the filling (down in those days and not synthetic) and a bag would stay warm (?) longer.


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## Danjanou (19 Jan 2016)

Anyone else impressed that not only do we apparently have nine pages discussing sleeping bags, but a third of them are about how to pack it.  8)


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## Loachman (19 Jan 2016)

And three of the threads have been merged into this.

Anybody else who cannot find an answer here and starts a new thread again will be given their choice of rolled or stuffed, and then inserted.


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Jan 2016)

Just one tidbit to add, when you finally receive the CTS Rucksac there is only one way to put the sleeping bag away and that is stuffed into the compression sac.....


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## mariomike (19 Jan 2016)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Just one tidbit to add, when you finally receive the CTS Rucksac there is only one way to put the sleeping bag away and that is stuffed into the compression sac.....



There are a lot of sleeping bag tidbits, including how to pack 'em,  
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+sleeping+bag+cts&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=IKCeVrHuN8SC8QeL6on4DA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22sleeping+bag%22


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