# CFSCE is great for SigOps



## Bull_STR (12 Jan 2006)

I would just like to say to those that have not made it to Kingston yet to start thier careers as a Sig Op that you are in for a BIG Surprise.

Before I came to Kingston to start my course I had heard nothing but BAD things about it.  Mind you in retrospect I must say that those people that had nothing good to say, well we will just not go into thier character, but rather say that they did not pass the course.

First off the Staff are great.  They give us just enough praise and C@cK to keep us motivated with out scaring the shit out of us or giving us a blaoted head.  So far they are top notch, very fair and considerate of our health and well being.

As for the instructors, I have to say they know thier stuff.  And they really know how to get the information into our heads.  They work hard at teaching us and in return my troop does not let them down.

The PT is great.  Not too much and far from too little.  Infact my Troop normally does extra PT on our own.  Like a 28KM Ruck last Friday Night from Gananoakway (SP ).  Our Staff MCPL was very impressed and we were proud to be able to impress him.

I wanted to put his out to all those Sig Ops that are on thier way or for those that are considering this Trade.  I asked a lot of people what it was like here in Kingston and I heard nothing but horror stories.  So it is my pleaseure to say these words to you.

"Work hard, Show respect, Take enitiative, Be proud, and Keep a Sense of Humor"  

Take this to heart and you will have as great a time here in Kingston at CFSCE as I am.

Thanks -Roger-Out


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## muffin (13 Jan 2006)

Bull_STR said:
			
		

> Gananoakway



Gananoque

Maggie


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## Journeyman (13 Jan 2006)

muffin said:
			
		

> Gananoque



It's Iroquois for "dammit Champlain, where the hell are we going?!"


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## Bintheredunthat (17 Jan 2006)

Wow.  I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone say anything quite like that about CFSCE.  But that doesn't surprise me as it's easier to complain than to praise.  One time I called a business to report some excellent service that I received and they didn't know what to do or who I should talk to.  It was quite funny.

Good for you for speaking your mind on a positive note - wish more would have good to say rather than bad.  From reading other posts, looks like a lot of young/new people entering the trade spend enough time on Pat (old word I know) with nothing to do that they are usually bitter and ticked off enough that CFSCE could be heaven and they'd still say it sucks.  Now that was a run-on sentence.

And if I can say, I don't envy your feet/knees/back after that march from Gan.  That must have taken almost 5 hours.  Most people in the Brigades can't say they've ever marched that far.  And most likely, most will say you're exagerating if you ever tell them of that march.  Good luck!

I will agree with all your points as I have a view of how things work there - but I would also say that someone could stand next to you and see the glass half empty.  Keep spreading the good word and good luck to you and your course mates!  Sounds like you'll make a fine addition wherever you end up being posted.

Bin


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## Bull_STR (18 Jan 2006)

here is a pic of us just before stepping off.  For the 28Km


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## Hoover (19 Jan 2006)

Are those CADPAT gortex jackets or combat tunics?


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## bojangles (21 Jan 2006)

Bull_str.....are you pickle?


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## canadianblue (21 Jan 2006)

What are the accomodations like, do you get some privacy, and what are the inspections like???


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## Bull_STR (22 Jan 2006)

bojangles said:
			
		

> Bull_str.....are you pickle?


hehe Panos  I knew you had Net in your room.  I will deal with you later, lol


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## Bull_STR (22 Jan 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> Are those CADPAT gortex jackets or combat tunics?


We are wearing our Cad shirts over our winter fleece.


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## Bull_STR (22 Jan 2006)

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> What are the accomodations like, do you get some privacy, and what are the inspections like???


well to be honest I am no longer living in the Barracks.  I live with my family in the Q's.

But you are in a room with 3 other people.  The size of the room is OK.  A lot of Closet and Cabinate space. And the personal super desk lol, but really it is not too bad. The showers are individual units.  Large enough laundry room.  And a 30 sec walk to the mess.  I have to keep a bed space set up for inspections, part of being a team, one does it we all do it, I dont mind really though.  

As for Inspections.  I come in and work on layout of my own gear and help the other mates with theirs.  We all share in the cleaning duties of the rooms and stations.  As for what I think you are asking.  The inspections are intense enough.  We try to hold a high standard.  So we work hard at getting everything above and beyond the standard.  Sometimes we have someone that messes up.  But we are all to blame for it.  (Brothers Keepers I say).  If we know the MCPL is looking real hard to find womething then we know we have done well even before he says how well we have done.  Kind of a game.  We know he will find something it all comes down to how hard we can make him look for it really.  Once you get here you will understand and appreciate how hard they get us to work together.  You will love it.


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## Peace (1 Feb 2006)

Im pickle foolio!!!!   Panos there is NO mudder.... .. >

Have fun in the feild pumpkinz, AND REMBER, use as many soap boxes as you need! :dontpanic:


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## canadianblue (2 Feb 2006)

But do you guys have your evenings and weekends off most of the time, is it more of a college environment or closer to BMQ?

Just want to prepare myself for wherever I'm headed.


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## Peace (2 Feb 2006)

its a college learning curve with a bmq rape twist,  all in all youll be fine.


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## Darth_Hamel (4 Feb 2006)

Just wanted to set a few things straight about CFSCE:

CFSCE overall is a pretty good place, especially because Kingston is probably the best army town in Canada, but there are reasons that it got the reputation of being the Canadian Forces School of C**k Enforcement.

I'm guessing from the pic that you're there in the winter, and let me tell you, being there in the summer make a big difference. When I was there the base was totally overflowing, with about 300 reservists, another 300 reg force jimmies, JSR and about 200 reserve infanteers doing SQ. There were lines going about 100m outside the mess, and several times I was up until 3-4am waiting for a free dryer so that I wouldn't have wet clothes for inspection. 

As to the massive C**k reputation, I think a lot of that comes from having about an equal amount of reg and reserve troops using the same facilities. The real problem isn't that CFSCE is tough, as that it's inconsistent. This comes from some of the higher ups wanting to impress the other side, but the middle leadership knows that sort of "lets show the other guy how tough we are" attitude is stupid. So what you get is inconsistency in the expectations and toughness for the course. As an example of what this leads to, I was on a course where on Tuesday we were allowed to watch DVD's during our breaks with the power point projector, and on Wednesday we had 5 consecutive inspections.... without us changing our intensity at all!

Just thought you needed to know why most jimmy's hate that place. But yeah... its exaggerated


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## Sig_Des (4 Feb 2006)

Hamel,

were you there this last summer when they decided they wanted all of CFSCE on the parade square so they could take a picture?...Kind of gave a visual of just how cramped it was.

The worst part about the washer/dryers...you'd get your clothes in the wash late, put them in the dryer at 2 in the morning, and find that some wanker had taken them out 15 minutes after you, and your stuck doing pt in wet clothes...

CFSCE can be a bit of a madhouse during the summer, especially with the 33 Bde BMQ/SQ's going on. It was always a race. I remember Jimmies break out in a run to get to the mess before the Infantry BMQ's got to the doors >

EDIT: didn't realize it was you, Hamel...do you still sound like you have AIDS? ;D


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## Gilligan (7 Feb 2006)

Hmmm,
  
   Regardless of what anyone says, I enjoyed the time I spent in Kingston, and until recently looked forward to more time there.  Just this past weekend I was a det commander on an ex and I had 2 guys working for me who just did their 3's last summer.  It was obvious immediately that the standards have changed drastically.  I was then told by the two guys about some of the new standards, and they absolutely blew me away.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety, but, I'm also against stupidity which these days seems to be running rampant there.  I guess one too many morons have gone off the front of the truck from the pod roof and caught their footing and done face plants, as now there is a standard that you are not allowed to go off the front, and in fact must go down the back ladder, which I'm sure all of you have experienced isn't a pleasant situation in the rain, with cam net up, while busting your A** trying to get your set up done to pass.  The other thing was that, although this will be an easier standard to follow once the ballistic goggles are standard in the reserves (my unit is getting them right now), the students would fail if they didn't wear a pair of goggles while there was metal on metal contact ie hammering in the ground spike.  Which, doesn't seem too unfair, except that there was only 1 pair of goggles in the det, and the 2 I/C and det member had to swap throughout the entire set up.  
     To make all this even more fun, they for some unknown reason (probably some officer in A Sqn trying to prove his worth) came up with the brilliant idea of intertwining all of the res courses into one amalgamated gongshow, with real rifles (which prior were rubberized so that you got used to having it, without f*in up a real one), and rounds to boot.  Now, it's been my experience that the course confirmation ex was difficult anyway, but to have to worry about all this extra BS seems unneeded and quite frankly is a step that should be taken once with the home unit.

   Hopefully the instructors are still amazing and are making the best of the situation as usual, that and I hope the city is still a fun way to relax at the end of the day.


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## Carbon-14 (7 Feb 2006)

There are always a few good instructors..  And there are always a few bad instructors.  I'm not all the fond of standards in Kingston.  Each year there seems to be less and less taught.  SDS, switchboards, and map symbols aren't even taught anymore!  VP is taught mostly at the unit level now which means its pretty inconsistent.  A course i was witness decided all generator trailers would stay in location, while the dets moved between them..  robbing them of valuable backing experience.  They hardly used any crypto.  The other course in the field at the same time had their students working encrypted, with frequency hopping, through the CI while moving.  So experiences at CFSCE will vary a lot depending on who's running the show.


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## muffin (7 Feb 2006)

Eh?! Frequency hopping is allowed in Canada now?! wow... I learned something today.
muffin


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## medicineman (7 Feb 2006)

Glad to see someone enjoys themselves at CFSCE - I spent 7 years in Kingston and noted alot of problems over there - mainly with the instructors, and in particular, those in one certain Sqn.  Things generally stemmed from management - stress issues, lack of common sense issues, medicalizing of administrative issues, etc ad nauseum.  There were times when another Sqn went through a very nasty scandal as well, whcih didn't help - again, it stemmed from leadership issues that soaked down.  When I left, they were going through some changes - some good , some bad.  Mainly good it would appear and I hope it stays that way.

Have a gooder.

MM


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## Sig_Des (7 Feb 2006)

muffin said:
			
		

> Eh?! Frequency hopping is allowed in Canada now?! wow... I learned something today.



Sure it is  Technically though, IIRC, you are required to be authorized to do so by CRTC


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## muffin (7 Feb 2006)

Well it is about time!   That is great  Give us old EW guys a workout spinning around to find you that way  We used to practice with cellular - lol


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## Darth_Hamel (11 Feb 2006)

"I was then told by the two guys about some of the new standards, and they absolutely blew me away.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety, but, I'm also against stupidity which these days seems to be running rampant there."

I once walked by the standards meeting room. It was behind a 1ft wide metal padlocked door. Evidently it was made from an old crypto locker or something. It really said something about their attitude though. Use the rear ladder my A**!

See the reason behind that decision was that no one was getting hurt using the back ladder, since no one was crazy enough to try it, so that the back ladder should be the only one in use. By the logic we would only allow blind people to drive on the highway, because there are no statistics of them getting into crashes :threat:


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## Zombie (14 Feb 2006)

Are there any base hockey teams in Kingston? I don't imagine I'll be playing during BMQ in St Jean or during SQ, but was wondering about during Sig Op QL3 in Kingston. Maybe I'll have to wait till Petwawa?


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## MikeL (14 Feb 2006)

Zombie, if there isn't you could always try to get a some people an play at the Gym.


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## Zombie (14 Feb 2006)

I was hoping for some competitive ice hockey, I've read about the base teams in Pet and Halifax and about the annual tourney in Borden, and the inter-base leagues as well. Also, if anyone knows about the calibre of play on the base teams, I wasn't able to find that out on the web. Floor hockey games would be fun, but I was wondering when I should get back home to pick up my equipment...


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## canadianblue (14 Feb 2006)

I've been told by some members and former members that Kingston is like BMQ all over again, others saying its more of a college environment with evenings and weekends off etc. I know theirs a team here in Borden, but not sure about Kingston.


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## Sig Mullet (24 Feb 2006)

I am a young Sig who just completed my 3's and recently got posted I would like to rebut to your saying that CFSCE is "great" but before I go completely negative I will agree to some of your points. The instructors are good and they do know their stuff but they are seriously hindered by the teaching plan which is so convoluted it drags out lessons to the point of obscurity and I found myself a little lost at times simply because we were reiterating points so often I was unsure if we were reviewing or "moving on". (The fact that I often found myself daydreaming out of boredom didn't help . 

As to your points about the Staff I have no rebuttal they are amazing and do amazing work, I only wish we saw them a little more often. I found it a little irritating to be confronted by Civ instructors, don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for their time in it was just a little diffcult not having someone green at the head of the room.

The PT is great in the fact that your doing it every day, other than that its a little weak and not very challenging, I know your rebuttal will be "do PT on your own time" but thats my 2 cents.

My biggest problem with CFSCE is their lack of real world training, they teach a lot of outdated stuff you will not use in your career (or use to such a limited capacity that you could have fumbled your way through when you got there) and don't teach a lot of things that you could be using on a regular basis. I also found that there is little challenge to the course as whole nothing that really drove me to give 100% day in day out, that might be a lack of personal drive but I do believe that you have to be driven a little, on that note the field phase is all good training it drives you and its a real world stuff (mostly). Its not the hardest EX Ive ever been on but it is the most demanding Ive seen in my short career, but keep your morale high and remember CCDC and you should have good times.

ZKJ


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## ddbuchanan82 (28 Feb 2006)

lol, Des, there I was reading your post thinking "Weren't you on the same course as Hamel?"  ;-)

Anyways, I suspect that the reg force and reserve experiences of CFSCE are dramatically different.  I think Hamel's right on the money on a lot of issues.
Combine that with the fact that the reserve units send in their pooched equipment first (of which they usually have lots), and you end up with a poor training situation, overall.  Beyond that, the reservist instructors aren't always top notch, for a number of reasons.  Don't get me wrong, I liked my course instructors...but I don't think that my course was well-instructed.  (Partly because of the instructors' attitudes and skills, but probably more because their hands were tied by CFSCE administration.)

Let's face it, you get instructors who just go from course to course - BMQ/SQ, 3's, 5's, PLQ - and then they start teaching this stuff without ever having actually USED it in any intensive sense (sure, they've done a fair number of small-scale weekend exercises, maybe a small handful of larger exercises, but there are often substantial aspects of what they're supposed to be teaching that they don't really know anything about, themselves).  Back at my unit, I'm finding that the best teachers are the ones who don't usually teach.  It's the ones who take summer taskings other than courses, or who go overseas, who actually know what's going on.


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## Sig_Des (28 Feb 2006)

Hey Buch!

glad do see they gave you that second hook, guess they'll give it to anyone at Res EW ;D

I'll agree that they do send some green staff for the Comm Res courses, a lot of the time the ones that have that "new-leaf shine", just getting used to instructing.

I found that most of the technical stuff I learned from experienced MasterJacks and Sgts who taught me the equipment on long-term taskings and excersizes, and I think I learned more from those than at CFSCE.

What I got from my 3's was pretty much the technical specs of equipment and the theory. Either way, CFSCE is like any other military school. Just play their games, and try to have fun with it 8)


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