# ROTP 2008 - Limbo for a year?



## trentonmilwife (26 Feb 2008)

Since the first round of acceptances seem to have made their way to some applicants now and there seems to be enough of us who are a bit surprised (maybe shocked or for those who wanted one last summer off, happy) about how we won't be doing IAP this summer and instead will just get sworn in in August, do a year of school and then head off to St Jean next May for BMOQ (btw does anyone know when this name was put in place, I still remember IAP+BOTP/BOTC).

Now for those of you going to RMC, this might not seem so bad, as in Sept you will have your Orientation, get your kit, learn the rules, drills, PT etc. But for those of us who are at Civi-U what are we supposed to do???

For example, we will all be de-regulated from our provincial health systems, but won't have an id card to go to sick parade (which if i wasnt already living on an a base, how on earth would i know what MIR was???). I will have to go in Civi's since I won't have any kit or uniform. I will have fun explaining to the base gym that i'm a member just don't have much proof and god forbid I forget where and when I am to salute (lucky for me, my husband's unit have all sat there jokingly told me that I don't need to salute them and that will "take it easy" on me until I have my basic course to learn the ins and outs)

Then to make matters worse, some CFRCs managed to get their 3rd year ROTP applicants on a BMOQ course this summer, while others said that no that wasn't possible and that it didn't matter if you were a 3rd or 1st year student, you all had to wait until next summer. Where is the consistency???

For an organization that is desperate to get bodies in, why the limbo for the first year??? Also why pay for a years salary and tuition if someone can't pass basis...this just doesn't make any sense!

Is there anywhere those of us who got told to sit tight for 14 months can go to make sure we don't look like morons next summer beside those who got the training all school year? (and please no "well you should've gone to RMC" jokes as its not always an option for everyone)


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## scoutfinch (26 Feb 2008)

1.  Have you been told you won't have an ID card?  I think it is highly unlikely that you won't.  Do you really think that no one else has thought about these things?

2.  My (limited) experience has been that you attend MIR in your dress of the day.  If that is civies, then you wear civies... and yes, I have attended MIR/Dental/OR in civies because it was my dress of the day.

3.  You indicated that you won't have uniforms, thus no head dress which makes the whole saluting issue moot.
,
4.  The base gym will accept your id.  In the event there is a problem, have the recruiting centre deal with the issue.

5.  Chill out.  You will get kitted out like everyone else at the appropriate time.  You will get trained like everyone else at the appropriate time.  This isn't about you, it is about the requirements of the service.  If you don't like the arrangements, don't join.  No one is forcing you to take the free tuition, free training and guaranteed job.


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## trentonmilwife (26 Feb 2008)

Scoutfinch, i see that the tone I was trying to convey didn't come across as I would've hoped. I'm not sitting here bitching, I'm sitting here wondering why was I told one thing and now in a week everything has changed and I was looking for information as to how I can ensure that I'm not going to get charged for something I didn't know about because I haven't had any information given to me.

I realise that I will get trained when they can train me, however waiting a year after you get sworn seems a little long.

Also I was told that they had no idea if I would get an ID card before BMOQ, since St Jean normally handles new recruit set up (everything from dog tags, ID cards, your pers file, your uniform, your pay etc), and since I'm not attending RMC, they weren't sure what the new protocol would be for someone like me, so when you hear something like that it makes you wonder well did someone forget about the Civi-U kids???



			
				scoutfinch said:
			
		

> 3.  You indicated that you won't have uniforms, thus no head dress which makes the whole saluting issue moot.


 you prove my point about things that I should know, but won't be taught for the next year.

I am thankful that I will have my last year of school subsidized and i am thankful that I will have a chance to have a career of my own as I support my husband's career as well.  I just am finding it odd that others in the same boat as me were able to get on the May5th BMOQ, while others weren't and I know that at times when changes come down there are lots of "things to iron out" and I'm just trying to get information and see if "anyone else has thought about these things"


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## scoutfinch (26 Feb 2008)

I understand where you are coming from and the frustration that goes with the changes... but at the end of the day, it all works out.  No one will be left in an untenable position.  If the problem hasn't already come up on someone's radar, a fix will be found when it does.

Remember the key to saving your own sanity can be summed up in one word:  flexibility.  I am not suggesting that you aren't being flexible, just advising you to roll with the punches.  Don't get stressed out about things over which you have no control.  It only impedes the problem solving process.

Ride the wave....


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## Rowshambow (26 Feb 2008)

Since you are going to Civi U, you should have (ask the rec center) a ULO (unit Liason Officer), you will belong to a BTL (Base Training List) where you will prob have to show up to work everyday and do umm...well "paperwork" get familiiar with the term PA (put away) it will be something the clerk you are working for will have you do! As for the uniform, last year when I was talking to the BTL clerk, he had 2 people who went to U of A who were awaiting basic, they had uniforms etc, the clerk had 1 of his other civi u pers show them how to put it on etc (although I am sure your hubby could show you). Good luck, have fun and watch out for papercuts!


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## ballz (26 Feb 2008)

Ok now I'm all worried.... What's this talk about doing paperwork and marches and stuff? I'm going through civie U, I've never heard anything about having to participate in marches or "show up to work everyday."

I thought I'd be just going to school for the next year collecting a monthly paycheque, and go to BMOQ next summer... Is that wrong?


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## SMP (26 Feb 2008)

Just chill out, things do eventually fall into place. 

In my past experiences, a select number of candidate positions  for courses is initially offered to each region/brigade, if there are unfilled positions in some regions then they will fill the spots with cadidates from other units. I would think that the lack of BMOQ's would have something to do with a staff shortage, possibly due to the Vandoos being in Afghanistan. I can understand why they would opt to train those in their last years of university, as they need to complete the training sooner to get their commission than those in their first year. You're not the only one on this boat, so you won't look like a moron.


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## dwalter (26 Feb 2008)

Hey folks, I think everyone is feeling a little bit stressed about the new regulations, especially the ROTP applicants. I am one, so I know. First they stop telling most of us what trade we will be getting into until after BMOQ, then they start bumping people to the next summer's course. Well, I am almost done 1st year Civvi U, and I will be doing my basic training this summer. For people in first year, the simple fact is that there isn't enough room on courses this summer. The number of applicants (Remember both DEO and ROTP need training) outnumbers the number of available instructors. 

As for people who are worried about not knowing the same as what the RMC cadets know, don't panic! IAP and BOTC are there to teach you everything from scratch. They are not going to expect you to know how to do drill or anything, because that would defeat the purpose of BASIC training. Everyone needs to learn from a standardized platform, even if they are messing with the system a little this year. We just have to think of ourselves as a Guinea pig year, and expect to hit all kinds of bumps along the way. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger!


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## George Wallace (26 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> Ok now I'm all worried.... What's this talk about doing paperwork and marches and stuff? I'm going through civie U, I've never heard anything about having to participate in marches or "show up to work everyday."
> 
> I thought I'd be just going to school for the next year collecting a monthly paycheque, and go to BMOQ next summer... Is that wrong?



 ???

Please pay attention to detail.

CANFORGEN 042/08 



> CANFORGEN 042/08
> 
> SUBJECT: REVISED PHYSICAL FITNESS TESTING POLICIES
> 
> ...




So!  You have 34 days to get into shape.    >


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## trentonmilwife (26 Feb 2008)

Rowshambow said:
			
		

> Since you are going to Civi U, you should have (ask the rec center) a ULO (unit Liason Officer), you will belong to a BTL (Base Training List) where you will prob have to show up to work everyday and do umm...well "paperwork" get familiiar with the term PA (put away) it will be something the clerk you are working for will have you do! As for the uniform, last year when I was talking to the BTL clerk, he had 2 people who went to U of A who were awaiting basic, they had uniforms etc, the clerk had 1 of his other civi u pers show them how to put it on etc (although I am sure your hubby could show you). Good luck, have fun and watch out for papercuts!



I've been told I'll be assigned to a ULO near September and but doesn't ULO stand for University Liason Officer (what the CFRC told me, just wondering)there aren't any in my town (I'm doing distance Civi-U) and yes I'm quite fortunate that I do know enough because of my hubby, but its not his job to teach me the regs and between training and deployment he will be away next year too, so i'm trying to figure it out before that.

Also I know that every year we must pass CF EXPRES Test, anyone know how that will work this year for ROTP as we've never even had our first test yet?


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## trentonmilwife (26 Feb 2008)

SMP said:
			
		

> Just chill out, things do eventually fall into place.
> 
> In my past experiences, a select number of candidate positions  for courses is initially offered to each region/brigade, if there are unfilled positions in some regions then they will fill the spots with cadidates from other units. I would think that the lack of BMOQ's would have something to do with a staff shortage, possibly due to the Vandoos being in Afghanistan. I can understand why they would opt to train those in their last years of university, as they need to complete the training sooner to get their commission than those in their first year. You're not the only one on this boat, so you won't look like a moron.



I am in my last year of university...


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## aesop081 (26 Feb 2008)

Don't people ask questions at the CFRC anymore ?

 :


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## ballz (26 Feb 2008)

George are you saying I have 34 days until I have to do a fitness test?

CDN I've asked plenty of questions at the CFRC, in fact they're probably sick of me by now, but they failed to mention any of this.


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## aesop081 (26 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> but they failed to mention any of this.



So go back and ask........Its not complicated


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## trentonmilwife (26 Feb 2008)

I have asked two differnt CFRC's all these questions and got two very very different responces...however they were unanimous as they said that anything past telling us that we have been selected for ROTP is our of their jurisdiction and that's it.... so we resort to the next best thing for information...the internet (but i'm not saying the internet is accurate...just sometimes you find what you need)


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## aesop081 (26 Feb 2008)

trentonmilwife said:
			
		

> I have asked two differnt CFRC's all these questions and got two very very different responces...however they were unanimous as they said that anything past telling us that we have been selected for ROTP is our of their jurisdiction and that's it.... so we resort to the next best thing for information...the internet (but i'm not saying the internet is accurate...just sometimes you find what you need)



Well now, you see, the next question for the CFRC would have been "To whom do i adress these questions then ?"


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## Nfld Sapper (26 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> George are you saying I have 34 days until I have to do a fitness test?
> 
> CDN I've asked plenty of questions at the CFRC, in fact they're probably sick of me by now, but they failed to mention any of this.



I highly doubt they would sick of you as it *IS* their job to answer any and all questions by potential recruits.

So go back and ask some more.

 :


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## George Wallace (26 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> George are you saying I have 34 days until I have to do a fitness test?



Actually no, but as of 1 Apr 2008 (In 34 days) you will have to complete a CF Expres Test annually.  So, start now and stay in shape to pass the test, any time after 01 Apr 08 and before 31 Mar 2009.


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## benny88 (26 Feb 2008)

I heard that something like this happened a few years ago (RMC intake of 2006, IIRC) And I'm sure even if the Civvy-U kids were forgotten then, they'll be remembered now, because the system has experience with this. The world won't crumble, it may be slightly confusing, but in the grand scheme of your career, very minor.


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## ChaosTheory (26 Feb 2008)

When I got sworn in 2006 for the ROTP program in a civvy u, I had my IAP put off that summer so for that summer I was on LWOP till I started school.  It wasn't bad, I had my last free summer, went camping, relaxed and got ready for school.  I was posted to my ULO who is in Chilliwack whereas I am in Vancouver and that isn't any problem.  I didn't get any of my kit till I went to St. Jean last summer.  This summer I will be doing my BOTC/SLT.  They gave me a temporary ID card before I went to university as well they told us all of the basics one day, like how health insurance works, how to claim stuff like our tuition, what to do with problems with out pay et cetera.

So don't worry, they will tell you what you need to know now, so just sit back and relax.


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## armyvern (26 Feb 2008)

trentonmilwife said:
			
		

> Since the first round of acceptances seem to have made their way to some applicants now and there seems to be enough of us who are a bit surprised (maybe shocked or for those who wanted one last summer off, happy) about how we won't be doing IAP this summer and instead will just get sworn in in August, do a year of school and then head off to St Jean next May for BMOQ (btw does anyone know when this name was put in place, I still remember IAP+BOTP/BOTC).
> 
> Now for those of you going to RMC, this might not seem so bad, as in Sept you will have your Orientation, get your kit, learn the rules, drills, PT etc. But for those of us who are at Civi-U what are we supposed to do???
> 
> ...



Uhmmm you're way off.

You will be assigned a ULO (University Liaison Officer) as a Civ U member of the CF. Your ULO will be stationed at the nearest support base to you. If there's no Base, they will be at a CF Detachment that your will deal with. (I just spent 18 months as the ULO for CivU pers in the Province of PEI -- Holland College/UPEI etc).

YOU WILL get issued a temporay CF ID card and will be photographed, fingerprinted etc for an NDI20 CF Permanent ID card. This application will be sent in on your behalf by your support Unit (we could process NDI20s at our Det ... OR staff did the fingerprinting and everything). That support Unit will also be the one handling your claims ... for books, tuition fees etc etc. They will also be handling all of your leave passes, LTA claims and everything else.

That ULO and the support Unit will also arrange to issue you your clothing and will order your DEU from Logistik Unicorp on your behalf. But, heck .. if you want to actually wear your uniform to class at CivU ... fill your boots. Those at UPEI certainly did not, nor did they when they came into the Det to see me or the OR ... they just didn't wear jeans etc.

Your temp ID will allow you to use the gym facilities at the Base. For those not close to a base with gym facilities ... most CivUs have them as part and parcel of being a student there -- go figure. As well, outlying CivU students are eligible to have memberships to a local gym bought and paid for by the Crown. This was the case in PEI where there is no Base, I purchased gym memberships for all RegF, ResF Class B, and all CivU students in the Province.

As for medical -- you would now be a member of the CF, and would be treated by the BHosp nearest you. If outlying with no BHosp facilities, as was our case in PEI, there will be a civilian health practitioner contracted to look after you. This will also be done and arranged by your ULO and your supporting Det/Unit if required.

In short --- all of the problems and concerns that you have mentioned above -- DO NOT exist.


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## armyvern (26 Feb 2008)

In August, when you get sworn in -- your ULO will be assigned to you and then you will be given all the info that you require.

You are not even enrolled yet. Relax.

For the Express Test -- your ULO will arrange to have you tested and will notify you of it's date/timing. CivU or not, you will be tested --- this has always been the case, as exemptions from testing due to being CivU have always been few and far between.

As to "reporting for work" ... you will enjoy your Chrsitmas leave and your March break with all the other students at your Uni, but, come May when Schools out -- you will most certainly be expected to report for duty each day. Where and to whom you will report for duty will be decided at higher levels and you will be advised. In short, during the summer -- if you aren't on course, you'll be working somewhere. That's part & parcel of receiving that paycheck (you will be allowed to take annual leave though just like everyone else).

Vern


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## armyvern (28 Feb 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Well now, you see, the next question for the CFRC would have been "To whom do i adress these questions then ?"



And, if I were the CFRC I'd be saying "in August, when you are sworn in and actually ARE a member of the CF ... those names and contact numbers will be revealed to you."

Simply, the CF is NOT going to release names, locals, contact numbers for pers outside of CFRCs to any pers who are not even sworn in yet.

Answering those questions now for those who are going to CivU and not being sworn in until August is akin to a troop who is complaining that:

"I'm being sworn in in August and going to BMQ in Sept, but the CF hasn't told me who my instructor will be!! How fucked is that?? What a crappy system!!"

Sometimes, I just have to wonder what the heck people expect. Really I do.  :-\


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## IntlBr (29 Feb 2008)

Vern, just because you're the supply goddess, and you've weighed in on this thread, and I believe (/hope) this is relevant enough, here goes...

I'm currently PRes.  I'm going to be working a summer tasking (of some sort), and then sign my RegF contract as a CivvyU ROTP bloke in August.  I'm planning on parading with a local reserve unit, with the blessing of my ULO (I'm told I'll get it because I've been getting good marks doing the same thing with the PRes) - therefore I will need uniforms and kit. In the past I've seen members who CT'd and were forced to return ALL of their kit, only to have it re-issued the next day.  I suppose they might also have me return all of my kit, until I "need" it next summer for BMOQ - although I plan on needing it immediately. 

Is there a way (that you know of) for me to skirt this seemingly pointless process?  Maybe through simply changing over my scale of issue, or somesuch thing?  I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!


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## checkmate_ca (29 Feb 2008)

yea i will love to hear an answer, cause i am also on planning to CT and i always wonder if i get to keep my kits. After a while you really feel attach to you kits LOL


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## infamous_p (29 Feb 2008)

checkmate_ca said:
			
		

> yea i will love to hear an answer, cause i am also on planning to CT and i always wonder if i get to keep my kits. After a while you really feel attach to you kits LOL




...your KIT. You only have one KIT.

You're planning on CT'ing? How long have you been in the military?


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## IntlBr (29 Feb 2008)

checkmate_ca said:
			
		

> yea i will love to hear an answer, cause i am also on planning to CT and i always wonder if i get to keep my kits. After a while you really feel attach to you kits LOL



You're CTing via ROTP?  Please brush up on your grammar and spelling before accepting any offers, for the CF's sake.


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## checkmate_ca (29 Feb 2008)

thanks for the correction. Been in for two years now.


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