# Canadian GATS, whats the go?



## Trooper Hale (2 May 2006)

Just a quick one, I'm wondering wat you Canucks go for with your weapons. I mean clearly the M-16 but do you use minimi's, Mag 58's, .30 cals etc. I'm coming to Canada on friday, hopefully to go on exchange with RCD. People probably know this but we Aussies use the Austeyr of a few different varieties, the minimi as our section weapon tho theres some talk of bringing back the Mag 58, just to get that extra bang and work those arm muscles lugging the thing around. We've got the Browning 9mm as our sidearm as some may know after the dig over in Iraq shot himself with it. Be good to hear some feedback,
Cheers fellers,
Haley


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## I_Drive_Planes (2 May 2006)

Trooper Hale,

First of all welcome to Army.ca!  I'm going to leave the answering of your question to someone with more expertise than me, however I will make the friendly suggestion that on this site you don't refer to weapons as "gats".  You will not be very well received around here that way.  

Just out of curiosity what Browning sidearm is it that you are issued?  I was under the distinct impression that the Americans were issued Berettas.

Cheers,

Planes


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## Gramps (2 May 2006)

I_Drive_Planes:
 I get the distinct impression that Trooper Hale is from Australia.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (2 May 2006)

He is...

Tpr H:  M-16A2 (C-7 in Canada, modified to C-7A1/A2), M-16 Carbine (called a C-8 here, modified to C-8A1 and other varieties), MAG-58 (called a C-6 here), Minimi (called a C-9 here), .50 cal, 25mm (turret same as AUSLAV), Browning 9mm, Carl Gustav, Eryx ATGM...  There's more, of course, but that's the basics.


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## I_Drive_Planes (2 May 2006)

Gramps said:
			
		

> I_Drive_Planes:
> I get the distinct impression that Trooper Hale is from Australia.



Oops, my appologies, after re-reading his post I can't quite figure out how I got the idea that he was an American.

Planes


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## Canadian Sig (2 May 2006)

I_Drive_Planes said:
			
		

> Oops, my appologies, after re-reading his post I can't quite figure out how I got the idea that he was an American.
> 
> Planes



Probably because he used the word "gat"... ;D


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## Trooper Hale (4 May 2006)

We'r almost as anti-Yank as you chaps but that doesnt mean we can rip off a word or two from them! We say "Gat's" like a professional would say "tools" and you've got to admit, when its said without your arms waving around and a shirt that 15 sizes to big it sounds a lot more professional then gun. Also our accents kill off any Americanisation of the word, for us its just short for Gatling and thats as good a nickname as any when it comes to talking about a wide range of small arms. Anything you can carry is a Gat, up to the MAG58. Think about it! Hopefully it makes sense! haha. I'm coming over tomorrow, hopefully starting exchange start of next month with a certain armoured regi near Ottawa. And thanks for all the responses, i reckon its good to know wat your getting yourself into, It seems the basics are the same as we have, except for the C-7, wat do you fellers reckon its like to a Steyr? The boys here reckon the Steyr's got a lot more going for it but then i've no experiance with the M16/C7/C8. It'd be nice to hear your feedback

Haley


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## Langevin (7 May 2006)

i did a little studing up on the steyr.. now im not exactly sure if we are on the same page with the steyr.. but if its the gun im thinking of. then id say the c-7 is superior


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## Langevin (7 May 2006)

but i think the decision is based on personal preferance... still it shoulod be double checked by some1 who knows more then me


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## paracowboy (7 May 2006)

Trooper Hale said:
			
		

> We'r almost as anti-Yank as you chaps but that doesnt mean we can rip off a word or two from them!


we are not Anti-Yank. We have some asshats among us that suffer from the affliction, but the majority of us are not, especially in the military. We spend a great of time working with American forces, and have a good working relationship with them.



> the C-7, wat do you fellers reckon its like to a Steyr? The boys here reckon the Steyr's got a lot more going for it but then i've no experiance with the M16/C7/C8. It'd be nice to hear your feedback


I like Auggie-doggie, but I prefer our C7. It just feels more comfortable to me.


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## KevinB (16 May 2006)

Sigh -- your a better man than I para...


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## paracowboy (16 May 2006)

I know.



BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAA!  ;D


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## Trooper Hale (25 May 2006)

Whats it like to strip the C-7? And are you just using open sights? 
BTW Langevin have you fired the C7? I read somewhere that you've not yet joined up yet. Just wondering, i mean its all good and well to say the C7's better but if you've never fired the bugger its a bit unqualified.
I suppose its all down to what your used to as Paracowboy said and to him i'm sorry about the Anti-Yank crack, you've probably got more experiance then me but the ones i met last year were, if you dont mind me saying, arrogent idiots. They had this theory that we owed them something, and after 9 days out bush i was feeling pretty short of patiance.
But yeah...anyway, i'm sure you'd love the Steyr para, shes a beauty to shoot and just feels like a great, comfortable rifle (I'm still going to call it a Gat! I've an accent, it doesnt sound gangsta at all from me).


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## Langevin (27 May 2006)

Trooper Hale said:
			
		

> BTW Langevin have you fired the C7? I read somewhere that you've not yet joined up yet. Just wondering, i mean its all good and well to say the C7's better but if you've never fired the bugger its a bit unqualified.



No im not in the CF.. yet . I was just compairing stats and what ive read


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## Trooper Hale (27 May 2006)

No worries, good luck getting in, it seems to be a hell of an ordeal from what i've read here. Everyones saying they've been waiting for an offer for 15 years and is now a grizzly old man.
I suppose we'r very different, i chose a job that i really wanted to do (Armoured Corp Crewman driver M113A1) and was lucky enough that that they had shortages. I went in, did my first paper signing the week after my 17th birthday, waited 2 months for a response, then did my pych, medical & aptitude test, with the Interview last. Next day did the fitness test and then another month before I got told i'd been accepted, a week later I was sworn in...With a mullet! and went to basic training that day. 
You guys seem to have a really slow process compared to that, but thats just what I've noticed, could be wrong.
I'm still with the Steyr btw, i cant think of anything beating the girl, shes accurate, durable, light and simple. But i've never been near a C7 or C6 so i dont know how to compare them.


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## pte. Massecar (27 May 2006)

Well, the C7 and the C9 are both equiped with an Elcan 3.4x optical sight with a tritium laced aiming post so you can see the tip of the aiming post at night. As far as shooting the Aug, never have, but it has a longer barrel in a short length weapon so in theory it's more accurate and stable. I can't say for certain as ive never fired the aug. I really like the C7 though. Works well, easy to maintain. 

Hope this answers some questions. Welcome to Canada, when you arrive. Maybe we can exchange tips cause im going to Australia next December, like we talked about. Talk to ya later buddy.

Edit: You'll love the C6! 7.62mm of power baby, yah! lol. I love it. Favourite tool in the box.


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## KevinB (27 May 2006)

The Aussies have the C6.Mag-58 BTW

Keep in mind the Aussie SASR use the C8SFW and other variants of the M16 FOW --    so you can figure where the Steyr Aug/F88whatever fits in


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## pte. Massecar (27 May 2006)

Touche KevinB. Righto about the SAS weapons. I have pics of Aussies with Diemaco weapons. I thought aussies had mag58's, but Hale's post seemed like they didn't.


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## Forgotten_Hero (27 May 2006)

> Well, the C7 and the C9 are both equiped with an Elcan 3.4x optical sight with a tritium laced aiming post so you can see the tip of the aiming post at night.



Yes... what a glorious idea that was. You can see the aiming post at night... you just cant see what you're shooting at, lol.


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## Trooper Hale (28 May 2006)

Whoa there little pony! I Think i mentioned that we use the Mag 58, if i didnt i'll whip myself, that brown bessy is my baby and i truly love her (translated, i use a Mag wherever possible and i have a truly deep appreciation for the firepower it lays down)! (I've been at a pub tonight, bare with me). The SAS use the M203/M16 as a general rule because its a better gun then the Steyr, more uses in way of accesories etc, those of us who simply need a brilliant gun to shoot bad guys use the Steyr AUG. If you ever get the chance KevinB use a F88, like i've said before she is awesome, light, accurate, and simple great just because the SASR use a different PDW doesnt mean that the steyr is hopeless, it is anything but. I like the steyr because the weapon is fantastic and hopefully when i qual on C6 ("You had me at 7.62") and C7 I'll be properly able to compare the pair for you all. Cpl Massecar, if your in Petawawa or even Ottawa I'll shout you numourous beers just to hear about the C7 and to give you tips on Aus. All i need is a mobile/cell number from you. I take it you call the Mag the C6 over here? i thought the C6 was a different version of the C7.


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## TCBF (28 May 2006)

C1 - FN C1A1 7.62mm.  C.A.L. (Long Branch) version of the FAL - yours was the Lithgow built L1A1.
C2 - FN C2A1 7.62 mm.  C.A.L (Long Branch) version of the FAL HB - yours was the Lithgow built L2A1.
C3 - 7.62 mm Sniper Rifle (PH 1200TX (more or less).
C4 - Was to be new designation of SMG 9mm C1 (C.A.L. built Stering-Patchett).  None left - all smelted.
C5 - Modified almost functional GPMG C1 which was our 7.62 version of the Browning M1919A4.  Mods from .30 U.S (.30-06) to 7.62 NATO completed about the Fall of 1970. No longer used.
C6 - Cdn purchase of the FN MAG 58.  First bought for the Leopard C1 tank in 1978.
C7 - And variants - Cdn DIEMACO (Dietrich Machine Company) version of the M16A1E1 with modifications.
C8 - Shorty C7 - but not as shorty as a '60s CAR-15.
C9 - Cdn adopted Minimi/SAW249.
C10 - Never adopted version .22 cal Cadet rifle.

End of chapter 1.


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## Trooper Hale (28 May 2006)

Thanks for that, i cant wait for chapter 2! Its going to be awesome to have a real look at the C7 and the C8 shorty. Our Steyr carbine that us armoured guys use is a fair bit shorter then the normal steyr but shoots just as well.
Theres absolutely nothing like getting behind a Mag with a couple of belts on the ground next to you, as i'm sure massecar will agree! Ripping out a 40 round burst and being completely unable to see downrange through the vibration and smoke cant be beaten...Except by the 12.7 on the ground mount, nestling in behind it, building the position, screaming "Firing...NOW" and trying to keep her on target as the ground around the target becomes a mess of dirt and dust, "Target destroyed or completely unhappy".
I dont think i definately said this last night (I suggested it, but was a bit drunk) the Australian army definately use the Mag 58, especially in armoured corp.


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## KevinB (28 May 2006)

I've used the Steyr -- underwhelmed by the ergonomics...


 As far as a Chapter 2 goes. (most pics I've put up elsewhere in this thread)

C7A1 - C7 with flatop
C7A2 - C7A1 with 4 position (early M4) Telescopic stock - green furiniture and TRIAD-1 rail





C7CT - Light Sniper Rifle - freefloate heavy match barrel)





C8A1 - C8 with flatop 




C8SFW (16" heavy barrel with Simon Sleeve - for Diemaco M203A1 mount, and KAC RAS)




C8FTHB (SFW w/o RAS)




C8CQB (10" barrel)

C9A1 - C9 with iron sight removed - aluminum rail added and bizarre iron sight added
C9A2 - C9 w/ old irons, steel 1913 rail, Short barrel - with C9 flashhider (para's have a different flashhider) and a telescopic M4 stock (some are also folders) plus bi-rail on side (can't recall its nomeclature)


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## pissedpat (12 Jun 2006)

Hmmm, the whole idea of pics and links seems to really be usefull for helping out our friend from down under understand what we have. C7 C8 and C9 seem to be done, lets post something on what else we have. I suck at forum code, so only links from me.
Your friend, the mag 58/c6/m240g http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-c6.htm On another note, other varients exist for coax roles or air mount. They lack the butt and have different sights.
Our 84 mm anti tank gun, the carl gustav http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-aargust.htm
The 84 is a bit bigger then the disposable M72 we sort of use. http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-aarm72.htm
Now this is a list of our small arms... would the javalin count? Sure. http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-aamjavelin.htm Or the Eryx http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-aameryx.htm
Mortars are also used a fair ammount, http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-mortar60.htm http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-mortar81.htm
And just for fun, lets say the 40mm GMG is a small arm... only our special forces have them last I heard, but they do exist in Canada http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-casw.htm
How about or .50 sniper, distant kill record holder http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-tac50.htm
And the .50 MG that you guys probably use too http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-m2.htm
Now you say you use the browning, the high power I assume? http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-c9mm.htm
Hows about the C13/M67 Fragmentation Grenade? http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m67.htm
That is about all I can think about from a small arms point of view.

Pat


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## Good2Golf (13 Jun 2006)

I-6, que pasa mit die Elcanschiße on the C8s (esp. the CQB)???


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## KevinB (13 Jun 2006)

Duey -- how they get issued...

  I seem to have deleted all my C8CQB pics off my photobucket account


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## Trooper Hale (15 Jun 2006)

Well i'm here now in Petawawa. I havent fired C7 yet though so i cant compare but ergonomics of the steyr? They work great and feel even better! Its good stuff.
mess is closing, have to fly, but i'll fight anyone who slags the steyr! maybe not but still, i love it and cant wait to try the C7. I'm thinking that i may be fairly impressed.


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## pte. Massecar (15 Jun 2006)

Hale, Im really nowhere near Ottawa. about 8 hours away. If for any reason you come to Hamilton (south east of Toronto..at the pointy end of lake Ontario on a map) Ill definetly take you for some beers.


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## KevinB (15 Jun 2006)

Hale -- I work with some ex Aussies both SASR and RAR guys -- everyone of them loves the M4A1 over the Steyr


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## Trooper Hale (16 Jun 2006)

Ah well thats because they actually want to shoot bad guys with the M4! I just want to shoot targets and look gucci! Awful thing to say i know, but so is that i drunk 11 bottles of Keiths and i have to work tomorrow. I suppose the M4 is better then the steyr, but for what i want it for and for what the vast majority of the blokes in Iraq right now want it for it does the job just as well, if not better, then anything else. Shes a good bit of gear, is our Steyr.
And Cpl Massecar, if i am in Hamilton i'll take you up on those beers. Peta's a distance though, from what you say. I'll be in Toronto eventually though and when i am, i'll drop you a line. Going to Ottawa this weekend. Should be fun but tomorrow i'll have a crack at getting to a C7 and giving you all my honest opinion. Not a steyr biased opinion but honest!


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## Skaha (18 Jun 2006)

here's  the lot in picture form . . . .

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-0weapons.htm


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