# Reserve-Stalwart Guardian 05



## Jarnhamar (28 Aug 2005)

I'm sure it would have popped up sooner or later so unlike on the range, I'll shoot first.  (Did someone else start this topic already?)

What did you guys who attended stalwart guardian think of the exercise?
Here's my 2 cents (From the point of view of a Corporal)
Pro's and Cons

Pro's

-AAG (or whatever it's called). VERY quick and painless. I couldn't believe it. We arrived on the mattawa, debussed, filled out two forms, checked in, grabbed rations, ate a quick lunch/snack, got on buses and headed out to our designated areas. It was I couldn't believe how fast and organized it was.
-Food and water. For the first few days we had a few hickups with food and water (didn't have enough)  It's an annoying thing but for the new privates I think it was a good training lesson. Very Early on in their career they learned that they won't always have meals a day and water won't always be readily available.  We had to share rations, some guys had to eat rations they didn't like. They had to watch their water consumption. Also it was straight hard rations which is good due to the fact that it's not screwing with your system.)
-New privates learned a lot of stuff that was left out of their summer training. (I hate the "they'll learn it back at their regiments' mentality)
Some of these guys had no clue when it came to very basic soldiering skills like marching/patrolling discipline, hand signals and how to pack. This gave us a chance to catch the new guys up to speed.
-MIR Commandos.  There was a UMS right in the battalion camp so not a lot of time was wasted sending people to the hospital for trivial things. It seemed like they were super serious about getting people back into the game as soon as possible when they were hurt which really cut down on people taking an easy out (IMHO)
-Fairly long marches with full FFO (including flak vests). Again, Early on it exposed the new soldiers to hardships.
-Proper time alloted for battle procedure and we had time to digest what was going on.
-Blue Rockets.  These were cleaned regularly, always awesome.

Cons
-Out of play bullshit.  We were told over and over that it was a tactical exercise. BOR, MIR and all the service elements had to dig shell scrapes. The minute the hide was attacked these elements, all of a sudden, were out of play. Thats shit.  If anyone is going to gain training value from being attacked in a hide it's not the infantry, it's the service support guys.  Becoming 'out of play' all of a sudden was pretty weak and, in my opinion, very hippocritical to the whole "tactical" concept.  An exercise should be administrative or tactical, halftical is a joke.
-"No timmies, we have spies". It actually came down that there were spies watching the tim hortons parking lot. Tim hortons was banned.  I myself don't drink coffee, but, is this some kind of major issue in the Canadian forces?  We need to ban our soldiers from Tim Horton's and set up MPs or spies to catch offenders?
-Promotion. I have mixed feelings about it. It seems like a LOT of money was spent on promoting this exercise. From posters to hand outs "where did you you attend?" to being ordered to watched the promotional video.  These exercises aren't really a new thing. I think the money may have been better spent else where.
-Ammo. Seemed like ammo was rationed until the end of the ex for fear of running out where upon the ammo was dumped on the companies. Thats nothing new though.
-ARC training in kingston. I'm not sure what went on there and maybe it's best discussed for another thread (maybe I'm not qualified to make this statement) but from what I've seen of the soldiers comming out of there, from what the newly trained soldiers said themselves, and from the instructors whom taught them, that ARC stuff was an abysmal failure. The soldiers who sent the summer there seemed to miss a lot of training and had huge training gaps.  
-Too much down time.  My company didn't send out any patrols during the night. I think there was enough time to fit in small patrols (reccee, ambush etc..) that would have gave junior master corporals and senior corporals a lot of training and confidence. We put in the attacks with no additional tasks.
-Clearing out.  Lots of confusion, especially advanced party. People being told they were staying in shacks then told they had to go back to the mattawa, some people being kicked out of their rooms, some people sleeping in their trucks.


More to follow


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## Pikache (28 Aug 2005)

Well, here's my kick at the can

Pros:
-Excellent enemy force. Good to have 1 RCR boys come out and play, giving a good challenge including usage of LAVs and snipers, roving patrols to make recce difficult and more. That trench position at the end of DZ Anzio was something special.
-Lots of time to prep for each mission, including sufficient rest time.
-Each mission was challenging enough to give everyone a test, even the OC as he had little intel from bn, so he had to rely on his recce patrols to get him the intel and if they failed... well, the mission became much more tougher.
-Good use of umpires to designate casualties for most part. Though it's hard to tell which arty sim is simulating friendly or enemy fire when it is tossed by the same guy.
-AAG and DAG was fast. Quick in, fill in two forms, toss your extra kit in a C container and wait out for AAG. Pick up your kit, go through DAG to get checked off the list and wait out at your designated area for bus with some timmy's and boxed meals.
-Lots of ammo.

Cons:
-Flakvests. I'm guessing everyone had to wear them to simulate being overseas as they wear these stuff all the time, but there wasn't an explanation about that from the higher ups, so a lot of troops may think they are being cocked for no good reason, so this means they won't come out next year.
-Lack of water: I dunno if this is a CQ thing or RQ thing, but I get annoyed when my troops have to scramble for water. (I was a sect 2IC)
-Chopper ride: IMO this was tossed in just for the cool factor. Yeah, it's nice and shiny for new troops to experience, but the flight was only like 5 mins, so in terms of in the mission perspective, it wasn't really necessary. (Esp. when the flight path took them right over the objective...)
-Being stuck with too many new troops in a section: I dunno if this is just my company, but it seems to me that CAC is turning more into a FTX for troops coming off their summer course more and more each year. Two years in a roll I was a sect 2IC in a 8 men sect and 5-6 are new, so I end up trying to keep too much of an eye on each troops which somewhat experienced soldier can teach to his partner. (Such as how to build a really rainproof hooch, make a range card, get their kit squared away better, etc)
I'm only saying this because in a lot of cases, non PLQ qualified cpls are being asked to fill in the sect 2IC role, and while some excel from the pressure, I bet quite a few fail because they can't do their job that they are not prepared for, and it doesn't help that they have to look after a lot of new troops on top of it.
-Admin days at the beginning and the end of the ex: too much down time that could have been better spent getting troops home. 
-No beer at the end of ex: I dunno if this was area wide thing, but 2 nice cold beer would have been nice to end a miserable week. Just a minor gripe though.

Overall, I thought this one was better organized and better run than last year's ex and more challenging.


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## Spanky (28 Aug 2005)

The excercise was very well run and well paced.  There was a lot of time for battle procedure and AARs.  The enemy force was awesome.  Having a PL(+) on the objectives with all the kit was a welcome change from a couple of blue fleet vehicles and 3/4 pers.
We had a major problem with kit.  Our recce sqn required 16 Iltis, and we were given 6.  The three sqns had to readujust vehicle allotment every 2 days.  Comms were a joke!  My troop had 5 callsigns instead of 7, and each vehicle had a 521 set with 1 battery for a 2 day tasking.  The battery had to be turned in after 24 hours so that we could get it back in time for the start of the next task, leaving us with out comms for 24 hours.  We did have our FRS's though.
Doing convoy escort duty with a real convoy was a treat.

We too had a problem with such a high percentage of newbies.  If more senior and experienced personal showed up for the ex, then the percentage of newbies would be lower, having less of an effect.  At least the new guys were there.


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## Pikache (28 Aug 2005)

^The problem with experienced troops not showing up is that first 2 SGs were pretty bad IMO. So, the higher ups are fighting an uphill battle to get the troops to show up. I mean, when it seems that 50% of the unit has excuses to not show up, you know something's wrong with the ex. (Or the general perception of it)

Another cons
-Get distinctive enemy force uniforms. Whether it be ODs or old desert tans or garrison uniforms, get them something very different than CADPAT so that the troops get the idea of NOT shooting at guys wearing CADPAT. There were incidents of friendly fire because new guys had hard time distinguishing between opfor and friendly due to similarity in uniform. I mean, how hard is it to find 150 or so old uniforms for enemy force?
-Better traffic control. I mean, it's not cool when you're doing an attack on an objective and some civvy or other mil vehs speed down the road you're using right through the objective. I know that the base was very busy and things need to be done, but there has to be a better way of directing traffic.


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## meni0n (28 Aug 2005)

That was probably the ISTAR testing taking place. I was 0 on that and we've tried to coordinate so that it doesn't interfere with SG. It didn't go too smoothly at times due to some miscommunications like being told 1 bridge was being closed but in reality 3 of them were closed hence us having about 4 callsigns being blocked in. But if most of SG guys didn't notice much traffic in the training area, the UAVs and the Aurora ( I don't think you guys could have notice em anyway although you might have found the downed UAV in the swamp ) then we did our job


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## Jarnhamar (29 Aug 2005)

> -Get distinctive enemy force uniforms. Whether it be ODs or old desert tans or garrison uniforms, get them something very different than CADPAT so that the troops get the idea of NOT shooting at guys wearing CADPAT. There were incidents of friendly fire because new guys had hard time distinguishing between opfor and friendly due to similarity in uniform. I mean, how hard is it to find 150 or so old uniforms for enemy force?


I agree it's annoying when the bad guys look like the good guys but couldn't this be a bennificial thing too?
Teaches soldiers to be sure of their target?  In the middle east the bad guys wear civies and blend in with the locals.

Agreed the traffic there was insane. That goes back to the 'out of play' stuff.  You couldnt tell what vehicle was in play and what wasn't. Way way too many vehicles driving around. "half-tical"

Having so many new troops can be frustrating but thats just how it goes. These guys are put on buses right off their infantry course and shipped up. In some cases brand new privates were acting as section 2ICs.  It's frustrating but good for the new guys considering what they missed ont heir recruit courses.

Not having attended the last two stalwart guardians (or whatever) i couldn't believe how negitive everyone was towards this ex. Everyone who I talked to bitched about it and wanted to find a way not to attend. (many did just that) i think next year people will have a more positive attitude.


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## Yeoman (29 Aug 2005)

it's good to hear that *someone* liked the 18 hours of work we put into the position beside DZ anzio. we just didn't want you little buggers getting in their that easily.
from my perspective this is basically what I had noticed
-some soldiers were lolly gagging in the kill zones, throw the smoke and get into the trench system as fast as you can. too many people would hunker down after the wire once they breached the ditch, berm, and wire. one attack took 17 minutes to get into the trenches. far too long. we were able to get all of our guys from the trees and into the trenches in under two minutes. it's just has to been done right. then again it was also our position and we knew where to breech the wire 
-as I noticed this a couple of times. if you're a c7 rifleman, and there's a c9 gunner dead, take his weapon. b-coy (4rcr and linc&well) picked up on that rather quickly once it was pointed out
-keep your heads down. leopard crawl through the trenches if you have to.
-at one attack no one had actually came into my trench to clear it, so I just waltzed out and shot six guys.

there was a half a million other things that happend as well that you guys had gotten in your aar's so I don't feel like beating a dead horse. 
but for the most part once you guys got into the trench systems, you moved at a pretty good pace. you got your wounded out quick, and kept on pressing to clear spots and leaving men behind in the position in case of another attack. communications was also a good thing from what I noticed from all three attacks.

all and all I had a good time out there working against you lads. I was happy with what happend. the only real thing was keep the heads down over the berm and in the trenches, and get out of the kill zone and into the trenches. 
it's just too bad that we just *happen* to take b-coys recce det as PW's, and we just *happen* to have your radio, and we just *happen* to decide to ambush and screw up your h-hour 
I think my guys set off more trips flares then you guys did lol.
I hope that you all enjoyed attacking my position, because I had a great time defending it.
Greg


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## Yeoman (29 Aug 2005)

RoyalHighlandFusilier said:
			
		

> -Get distinctive enemy force uniforms. Whether it be ODs or old desert tans or garrison uniforms, get them something very different than CADPAT so that the troops get the idea of NOT shooting at guys wearing CADPAT. There were incidents of friendly fire because new guys had hard time distinguishing between opfor and friendly due to similarity in uniform. I mean, how hard is it to find 150 or so old uniforms for enemy force?



this has been brought up before and during the ex by some of the guys in 1RCR. unfortunately our stores does not have enough kind of other camo to issue out to every soldier. hopefully this can be rectified for next year.
I know I too personally was really pushing for this. I collect camo so I would have been able to outfit two sections no problem if that was allowed.
but again hopefully this will get sorted out for next year. I mean it just would make sense to have the opfor dressed in either civvies or wear their old OD's, or even some other type of camos. and have pics taken and handed out to the troops to clearly identifty who's who in the zoo.
Greg


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## DG-41 (29 Aug 2005)

I came out of retirement just in time to attend the ex. Medical 0730 Friday Morning. Issue kit 1000. ID card issued 1400. On the bus to Petawawa at 2200. Yeeha! 

Smoothest inclearences I've ever seen. Big ups to the folks that worked that system out.

No problems with food or water in 3 AAR.

But I'll amplify the problems with kit... not enough vehicles for three recce squadrons, and especially not enough radios. Every callsign should have had a vehicle mount, and every patrol should have had an additional 522 manpack. Instead, there were a couple of 522s, and most everybody else got a 521 with a SINGLE BATTERY. Accordingly, coms sucked golf balls through garden hose. That's unacceptable. Not only does it throw a huge wrench into the training value, it's a serious safety issue.

Incidently, I spent a night down by the gravel pit near the boy scout bridge acting as a radio relay for the OP and patrol base on that bridge. My position was dictated by coms, not the tactical situation, so we wound up tracks up to the world on the northern end of the gravel pit - which just happened to be one of the helo insertion LZs. That morning, I watched 6 choppers fly right over my head, land in the LZ, and drop off their passengers - who all, once re-org-ed, marched single file not 10 metres from the front of my callsign. Not one - not ONE - soldier even LOOKED in my direction, never mind run over to see just who the hell I was and what was I doing in his LZ.....

But overall, I had a great time, learned a ton (I had no idea that the LO was so busy) and I know that morale was high pretty much the whole ex. It validated my decision to come out of retirement.

DG


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## Sh0rtbUs (29 Aug 2005)

We had some serious Comms issues, often resorting to Motorollas as a primary means. Yes, the OPFOR Uniforms could have been better marked (ie. last years red tapes on helmets and arms).

Kit, our Alpha callsign in the troop was driving a MILCOT due to lack of required iltis. That alone started killing things for me, and the Dry Smoker at END EX finished it.

Was it just me, or did it seem that SG05, yet again wasnt sure what to do with us Recce guys? All our objectives were on the outskirts of the training area, and we never got into the central petawawa area.


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## Spanky (29 Aug 2005)

Shortbus, you must have been in D Sqn.  I agree that the screen seemed designed to get us out of the way, but the convoy escort was a viable recce task and having an actual convoy on a real task was a benefit.  The close recce on the bridges were also, depending on the coy commander, important to the success of the assaults.


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## MdB (29 Aug 2005)

Just for you guys to know, there's an official Stalwart Guardian website.

Enjoy!


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## Poppa (29 Aug 2005)

Not a bad ex...First time out on as an Officer...big change...learning not to like the CP.
One thing I'd change is the colours assigned the MPPl. REDI can't believe how many times my CO was stopped due to his red pennant issued from 3LBG.
Now I know this was an oversight..it can't be a conspiracy to make us even more of a target..or can it.  
Engineers did a great job on the bridge by the way


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## choijosh (30 Aug 2005)

HEY WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU WERE AWOL FOR STALWART GUARDIAN AND IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL. HOW MUCH DO WE GET CHARGED FOR?


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## Michael OLeary (30 Aug 2005)

choijosh,

You will have to deal with your unit on that matter.

(Please don't post in all caps, it is considered to be shouting in on-line communiation. Also, do not post a question multiple times, i will be removing your other post with the same question.)


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## Gouki (30 Aug 2005)

choijosh said:
			
		

> HEY WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU WERE AWOL FOR STALWART GUARDIAN AND IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL. HOW MUCH DO WE GET CHARGED FOR?



Define "unintentional"


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## JBP (30 Aug 2005)

Yeoman said:
			
		

> it's good to hear that *someone* liked the 18 hours of work we put into the position beside DZ anzio. we just didn't want you little buggers getting in their that easily.
> from my perspective this is basically what I had noticed
> -some soldiers were lolly gagging in the kill zones, throw the smoke and get into the trench system as fast as you can. too many people would hunker down after the wire once they breached the ditch, berm, and wire. one attack took 17 minutes to get into the trenches. far too long. we were able to get all of our guys from the trees and into the trenches in under two minutes. it's just has to been done right. then again it was also our position and we knew where to breech the wire
> -as I noticed this a couple of times. if you're a c7 rifleman, and there's a c9 gunner dead, take his weapon. b-coy (4rcr and linc&well) picked up on that rather quickly once it was pointed out
> ...




This was my first time at a Brigade level ex... I had just gotten off my summer courses (newly minted and fully-trained Pte, reserves) and I was abit worn out still, didn't have any time to rest. Nonetheless, I thought this EX was done well from a FNG's standpoint. Yeah, a lot of down time between attacks, but in my group (B-Coy), we did A LOT of rehersals, 1 day attacks, 1 day rehersals. Generally we spent about 5-6hrs on rehersals before an attack... We had a serious lack of senior NCO's like everyone else mind you. 

The benefit of all the rehersals for a new guy like me is that it clearly defined my position and showed me how a Coy operates in a combat situation/patrol. Sure we had training on our BIQ, but it was all jam-packed and 1 day this, 1 day that. This ex clarified things for me anyway, and many others from my training in the summer I spoke with as well. It was a great way to end our training and the summer. 

Onward now, to condeming 1 RCR who screwed us soo good!!!

Damn you 1 RCR!!! Yeoman you guys got us soo good, even though our attack went well with your tinkering overall, we felt the sting of a stupid mistake. Our reville time at 1 AM!!!!  :crybaby: Our own arty rounds attacking us! H-Hour split the Coy up! God, it was a mess at first, good thing a few senior NCO's caught on quickly (Mainly the WO's). That last attack was the single most realistic combat training I've had, right up alongside our FIBUA trng. Awesome defensive position, you guys seriously deserve a pat on the back for that position. 

Not to point any fingers, but I believe the NCO's in comd of that Recce FUBAR'd it. They left 2 newly trained Pte's WITH the radio ALONE and close enough that your "roving" patrol caught them... That instance and all the changes you guys made REALLY opened our eyes up to how deadly and important comms can be, and how tricky war could be. That saying, "never underestimate your enemy", seems all the more real now. 

Again, I thought the ex was very good, even though at the end I was tired, sore, and I caught some odd northern virus! Again, good job 1 RCR!!!


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## Robtimus_Prime (30 Aug 2005)

Hey Fusileer.  The reason water was in such short order at times is as follow.  I don't know how many times I said it but, WHEN THE GERRY IS EMPTY...BRING IT OUT OF THE HIDE SO TEH CQ CAN PICK IT UP AND REFILL IT.  Oh, and the water buffalo's were emptied when one coy refilled them so you had to wait for them to be refilled before you could refill gerry's.


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## Sf2 (30 Aug 2005)

Althought I didn't participate this year, I have the past few as a Griffon pilot - 

1)  One of you said the Griffon ride was useless....5 mins or so.  The aim of the training is to famil you guys with operating near helos, loading, unloading etc, not for the ride itself.  You don't know how many times we ask guys "you've been in one of these before??"  "Oh yeah....sure...." he says, then doesn't know how to do up the seat belts, or stands up and starts running around before the helos have left the LZ's.....

2)  In my 10 yrs as a reg force guy, comms is always an issue, always will be.


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## Pikache (30 Aug 2005)

Robtimus_Prime said:
			
		

> Hey Fusileer.  The reason water was in such short order at times is as follow.  I don't know how many times I said it but, WHEN THE GERRY IS EMPTY...BRING IT OUT OF THE HIDE SO TEH CQ CAN PICK IT UP AND REFILL IT.  Oh, and the water buffalo's were emptied when one coy refilled them so you had to wait for them to be refilled before you could refill gerry's.


Just how many Jerries did the CQ carry at one time anyways? Maybe 20 for a company of 150+? I'm not pointing fingers at you directly, but it just seems that there weren't enough jerries around.
(And yes, my platoon brought back jerries whenever they were empty, which was mainly after meals and before going on mission and rehearsals. That's often enough, right?)


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## Pikache (30 Aug 2005)

short final said:
			
		

> Althought I didn't participate this year, I have the past few as a Griffon pilot -
> 
> 1)  One of you said the Griffon ride was useless....5 mins or so.  The aim of the training is to famil you guys with operating near helos, loading, unloading etc, not for the ride itself.  You don't know how many times we ask guys "you've been in one of these before??"  "Oh yeah....sure...." he says, then doesn't know how to do up the seat belts, or stands up and starts running around before the helos have left the LZ's.....


It just seemd to me that the airmobile ops was big part of the training, yet it wasn't that big part at all in terms of the context of the overall picture. Yeah, getting guys familiarized with choppers is nice I suppose, but to me, the choppers were there as something shiny and cool and that's all.


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

RoyalHighlandFusilier said:
			
		

> Just how many Jerries did the CQ carry at one time anyways? Maybe 20 for a company of 150+? I'm not pointing fingers at you directly, but it just seems that there weren't enough jerries around.
> (And yes, my platoon brought back jerries whenever they were empty, which was mainly after meals and before going on mission and rehearsals. That's often enough, right?)



Just to interject here.....It is all TIMING.....did you bring the empties down before or after they left to get water?


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## Sf2 (30 Aug 2005)

I see your point Royal - but its my opinion that both Regs and Reserves don't spend enough time working around choppers.   I still see guys sitting in the wrong seats (taking the FE's spot), tying the seatbelt in a knot because they couldn't figure it out, guys running towards the tail (BIG BIG NO NO), catching equipment on the pitot tubes (two stick things on the nose), plus much much more.

I know airmobles aren't really in the doctrine anymore, given today's battlegrounds, but there's something about jet engines and spinning rotors that drop a guy's IQ 10 fold and never seem to know what they're doing.


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## Robtimus_Prime (30 Aug 2005)

Over 30 Gerry's.  CQ staff was a little busy to worry soley about Gerry's.  Like say, getting rations, tossing your garbage.  You need to sepnd an ex the the CQ to understand what it's like.


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## Pikache (30 Aug 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Just to interject here.....It is all TIMING.....did you bring the empties down before or after they left to get water?


I have no idea, as I don't know when CQ made water runs.

I was never a CQ for a coy in field, but I was admin NCO for a course this summer and to my belief, it should be at least 2 jerries per section available.


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

RoyalHighlandFusilier said:
			
		

> I have no idea, as I don't know when CQ made water runs.



Well...I would think that that may have been a good thing to know......and not to have a pile of partially filled Gerry Cans in your location, when you could have taken all of them and filled one, so that you could turn the empties in to be filled.  The problem may have been you; not the CQ.


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## JBP (30 Aug 2005)

short final said:
			
		

> Althought I didn't participate this year, I have the past few as a Griffon pilot -
> 
> 1)   One of you said the Griffon ride was useless....5 mins or so.   The aim of the training is to famil you guys with operating near helos, loading, unloading etc, not for the ride itself.   You don't know how many times we ask guys "you've been in one of these before??"   "Oh yeah....sure...." he says, then doesn't know how to do up the seat belts, or stands up and starts running around before the helos have left the LZ's.....
> 
> 2)   In my 10 yrs as a reg force guy, comms is always an issue, always will be.




I myself believe the introduction was useful, seeing as I've been in a civilian chopper about 3 times, this was quite different. Different flying, different load+unload of people (DAH) and altogether it was as if I'd never flown on one before. Having an introduction to tac-helo ops was great in my opinion and served it's purpose quite well in that fashion; what it was---> An intro!

People saying it wasn't useful is like people saying the gas hut isn't useful either. Gave you confidence in your equipment and drills did it not? If not, you weren't paying attention or learning anything. 

Joe


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## 48Highlander (30 Aug 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well...I would think that that may have been a good thing to know......and not to have a pile of partially filled Gerry Cans in your location, when you could have taken all of them and filled one, so that you could turn the empties in to be filled.   The problem may have been you; not the CQ.



I don't really see that as being a brand new privates responsibility.  Someone a little higher than him dropped the ball on this one.  CQ should have advised the leadership of when they'd be scheduling water runs, or idealy coordinated with them to work out how to take care of the problem.  The leadership (section commanders) should have ensured individuals were delegated to consolidate the jerries and get empty ones turned in at the appropriate times.


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

I'm sorry....he claims to have 3 years service.


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## 48Highlander (30 Aug 2005)

whoops.  musta gotten him confused with someone else.  cancel my last.


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## Pikache (30 Aug 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well...I would think that that may have been a good thing to know......and not to have a pile of partially filled Gerry Cans in your location, when you could have taken all of them and filled one, so that you could turn the empties in to be filled.  The problem may have been you; not the CQ.


Actually, at most, my platoon had maximum 2 jerries for a platoon of 33 or so at one time. I was delegated as the 'water NCO' by default or something and I ensured that everytime a jerry was returned, it was empty or pretty damn close to it. Jerries were returned after meals with garbage, or before rehearsals or whenever it was empty. I returned two, but a lot of times had to settle with 1, or even zero because CQ didn't have any available.
I fail to see how I am at fault here, as what I did made sense to me.
Curious. How often was water delivered and at what time anyways?

And this is just getting stupid so I'll decline to comment further. PM me if you really need to say something to me about this.


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## Forgotten_Hero (30 Aug 2005)

Well, this was my first ex besides the ones I've done on course and I found it alright... I was, however, disappointed that we had to use purely blanks for the attacks instead of simunition/milesgear, and I would have liked a bit of obua too, considering that I think obua training is very important.


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## jmorische (30 Aug 2005)

For my part, I acted as the OPs O for F COY 32 LIB for this one and here are a couple of bits for people to chew on:

1. 1RCR did an excellent job in preparing their positions and providing a solid, thinking and professional enemy force that ramped up the level of training for everyone. Excellent job for all who took part. The NCOs and Lt Pappin were particularly helpful during AARs.

2. The objectives were well chosen and tough nuts to crack. Again this only added to the level of training. This part the exercise planners got right, no question.

3. The battle procedure time cycle was too compressed for COY level operations to allow for proper battle procedure. At 48 hours per task, recce did not have sufficient time to deploy, execute their mission and report back. As a result battle procedure for the COY had to start with minimal info, and then in some cases be reworked entirely when information began to filter back to the OC. Given the exercise planners are keen on having three objectives per week there must be a change in the warning order and recce process to permit proper recce which will assist in planning rather than cause rewrites at the last minute. Although there was sufficient time for rest (which the troops loved), weapons maintenance, rehearsals, and coord with FEOs and other COYs, the essential portions of battle procedure revolving around recce were having to be cut short or aborted entirely. This made the plan less sound, and as a result meant that order for the troops and rehearsals which they conducted were less meaningful than they should have been. If the point of these exercises is to test skills and teach from lessons learned, then we should make sure to have all good lessons being taught each time, not half-assed ones.

4. Tactical considerations must be made paramount. Example: doctrine (rightly so) is that you attack a bridge from both ends at the same time, however for our attack we were prevented from putting a platoon across the river (I asked for helos, trucks, and then offered, with an MOI WO to swim our German Pathfinders across). Also tactics would strongly suggest that you don't fly heleicopters over your objective and then land troops less than 800m from it. We were given no choice in our landing  zone and had to deal with the fact that the enemy could see us lcrossing a road on the way to it, such that they could call arty on us (thankfully we got the hell out of there before it started falling.) Both of these examples were forced upon our company by higher, not because we are particularly stunned. Exercise restrictions need to be maintained to some degree to ensure safety...fine. However, there must be a flexibility built in, in order to ensure that tactical considerations are not pushed aside in the name of expediency and simplicity. Again, let's try to teach good lessons to troops rather than ones which save time and effort.

5. The lack of a proper smoker for the troops was inexcusable. I heard a variety of reasons, no QL6 cook available to supervise proper cooking of meat, blah blah blah. The troops busted their asses all week, and two cans of half-cold beer and a steak isn't that much to ask for. Given the planning that was said to have gone into everything else, I was shocked to hear that pizza and pop was the best that could be done for the boys, particularly given the fact that SG04 ended with a proper smoker. It can be done, somebody dropped the ball. That has to be fixed. 

I'm sure that there is more but those are some of the ones that stand out.

Dileas.


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## Forgotten_Hero (30 Aug 2005)

> doctrine (rightly so) is that you attack a bridge from both ends at the same time



Im curious... what prevented you from doing so?


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## jmorische (30 Aug 2005)

As to the question of why we couldn't get a platoon across the river...

All bridges were in "Enemy" hands so regular lift across was not an option. No helicopters...when I asked the ALO for a night lift they actually snickered at my request...that was classy. No birds, no trucks, so the final option was to ford or swim across (as all of out teleportation devices were NS) I requested (with the assistance of one of our Observer Controllers, a WO who is MOI) to have the two of us swim a rope across, but higher, quoting safety concerns, shut that down. That in a rather condensed version is why we could not get a platoon across. Other COYs had "Insurgents' give them lift across, or some got day-time flights. Our window for birds was apparently restricted as was the option for truck lift. The real kick in the junk about this was that battle procedure has started with the promise that we had the lift only to then have it turned off late in the game.

As stated, I tried a few things but I was playing the game by myself when all was said and done.


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## DG-41 (31 Aug 2005)

All the bridges had recce on them - the Armoured Recce squadrons had been in place for at least 12 hours prior to the LIBs arriving on their birds, and our troops at least didn't just do static OPs, but instead did a lot of agressive patrolling. Some of our patrols made it all the way into the enemy admin areas.

But the LIBs made, in general, poor use of this resource, operating as if recce wasn't even there. Were you not told?

DG


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## Bomber (31 Aug 2005)

Funny how we figure that all these different units can come together in only a few hours, and exercise as a cohesive unit immediately.  "Were you not told" good one, there is a good chance that they had no idea you guys were even thee, let alone watching the objective.  Got to hold a few more of these over the year, to get the bugs out before the "big one" in the summer, I think we are pretty far away from just being able to plug a reserve unit in and have everything go super smooth, all this water complaints area a great example.  I don't get why you guys only brought 2 Jerries per platoon, but if that s the way you do it, then good for you.  There is always 6 in the back of my gun tractor for my detachment, and if you are out of water, find anyone that is on a vehicle, chances are that they will have a ton of it and will share with you.


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## Bomber for Life (31 Aug 2005)

From a Det commander in the Arty point of view SG05 was ok. Not good, just ok. I have been on better, and MUCH WORSE

Cons- For starters the safety trace in the impact area was way too small, we were stopped by safety every other mission. Not being able to use the normal gun positions that we use, we had to stick and entire battery in postage stamp size positions. Damn Istar, civvies in the impact area, we had overflight issues where we couldn't shoot our fused ammo, this caused us to have to turn in over 60+ rounds per gun. Out clearance was a jug f#$k pain in the ass. I miss the 4 RCA Smoker at the end, in sted they bought us crappy pizza, I miss the 2 beers we had last year.

Pros- The fact we couldn't use the normal gun positions was also a plus, it forced Reece to actually think out our positions, not just use status quo. Due to the crazy positions, we had to fire "high angle", we never get to do that, I shot at Eleveation 1212. THATS NUTS!!!!! We had excellent support from our Regiment, the whole 4 RCA thing works real well. Even with the safety issues the ex flowed well. Enemy force, 3 RCR attacked us on a road move, we had to respond like infantry, good for practice. 

Just a few of the problems I remember. I post more when I remember


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## Northern Touch (31 Aug 2005)

Hmm, well my company didnt seem to have some of the problems the other companies had.  We always had food and had well over 30 jerries  which we kept filled whenever we were in the hide.

I know that our company DID attack the bridge from both ends, or try at least, but one plt got wiped out pretty quick so another platoon had to push across the whole bridge.

The trench system was a good go but not to many people were excited about it being filmed.

The terrorist camp was by far the most enjoyable for me, espeically the 4 and a half hour march there.

One of the big things which I think plagued all the companies was the lack of senior leadership.  Last year almost every section was commanded by a Sgt, this year, it was Cpls just off there leadership course (who did an excellent job) and 2 i/cs were mostly privates who had been in a year.  Given those circumstances I thought it went as well as could have been hoped for.

The half tactical thing sorta bugged me but what can ya do.

I know a lot of the new troops that hadn't been on a FTX before had a real learning experience, especially when it came to getting kit squared away in the hide and proper dress at night.  A lot of new troops would be wearing and walking with their fleece or sweaters at night but that changed after on march.

Not having a smoker was a huge dissapointment, but at least we had a mock mess dinner with IMP's at the end.

Our AAR's were WAY to long with points being hashed over and over again instead of moving onto something more relevant.

All in all, it was a good go, no real complaints.


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## Danjanou (31 Aug 2005)

Hmm couple of comments from the Dinosaur seats here.

Nice to see comments from new troopies who thoroughly enjoyed themselves (not jaded/experienced enough to notice what was wrong only what was good). Especially the points re that stuff that seemed rushed and not understood on their rather crammed courses this summer is now starting to make sense.

Re the sniping here on what worked, didn't work especially between section 2ics and CQMS staff. Hello that's why we call it training to identify and hopefully develop work arounds to solve the problem. Ok in this case there were probably errors and miscommunications on both sides of the house, now figure out how to fix it so it don't happen  next year then you can work on a whole new set of screw ups.

Hey poop happens boys and girls. Sections are full of semi trained troops instead of trained experienced ones, and sometimes led by inexperienced/unqualified section commanders 2ics. Food, water and other goodies sometimes don't arrive on time/in the correct amounts. Situations/orders/tasks resources change. 

I'll be honest sometimes these things just happen, last Milcon /CAC I attended in Pet what was left of Hurricane Andrew paid a visit midway through the final Brigade FTX and that kind of put a damper( literally) on all plans. Sometimes they are a result of incompetence and negligence at some level in the chain of command (and in that case someone needs to be doing the hatless dance).

One has two choices, sit and bitch about it or ruck up and soldier on. Look at it as an advantage, extra realistic training if you will. If you can overcome said shortcomings and still get the job done, then great, that's a great feeling of accomplishment and important IN YOUR DEVLOPMENT AS A SOLDIER. Guess what everything may not be perfect when it's for real either. Remember the old adage, train hard, fight easier, train easy fight hard and die.

Short Final re Helios and the 10% IQ drop in your average grunt. I agree it's the "shiny toy syndrome" what can I say. Your right though the main purpose is familiarization. Guys don't do this a lot especially Reservists and skills get rusty ( as in other things hence the whole idea of an annual refresher  week). I once saw a CWO act like an excited 5 year old in a Chinook, for all I know it was his first time in a military helio. To me it was just another way to get to work. Not as much time to nap as in the back of a truck/track/yellow school bus, but still preferable to leather cadillacs.


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## Steel Badger (1 Sep 2005)

My comment on the great "Water Can Crisis" of 05....

There were sufficient cans (30 plus if memory serves) on hand with the CQ of the Company in question.

The problem was that issufficent vehicles were downloaded to the COYs and Bns.....(31 LIB at least)

The shortage of vehicles meant that Coy vehicles and pers were regulary pressed into service on tasks normally fulfilled by the RQ and his troops. For a short while we were able to press the FOO milcot into service for supply and rover duties....though even that was perilous as at one point the Coy 2IC went up to a Ops  co-ord at C/S 0 only to find the FOO-mobile (and himself) pressed into service on a DP.

In short, shortage of vehicles lead to some delays in resupp.......


Interesting point: during the space of two hours one morining I counted 12 odd milcots in the coy area occupied 
by one or two EXCON / interested observer types......


Interesting


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## Jarnhamar (1 Sep 2005)

Hands down that is my biggest dislike/complaint about these types of excersises.

Way too many excon-observer controller-spectator types.
The companies had serious vehicle and driver shortages but it seemed like every out of play guy had his own milcot and driver.  

If the CF wants to save money I can think of an easy way to accomplish that.


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## Danjanou (1 Sep 2005)

Ghost778, that one is never going to change. it existed in my time, it exists now and most likely will in the future until the Reserves undergo a radical change.

If you got rid of it what would you do with all those surplus to need Lt.Cols/Majors and/or CWOs/MWOs  after their "battalion" has deployed their comopany of platoon to the composite unit.  :


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## Matt_Fisher (1 Sep 2005)

jmorische said:
			
		

> 3. The battle procedure time cycle was too compressed for COY level operations to allow for proper battle procedure. At 48 hours per task, recce did not have sufficient time to deploy, execute their mission and report back. As a result battle procedure for the COY had to start with minimal info, and then in some cases be reworked entirely when information began to filter back to the OC. Given the exercise planners are keen on having three objectives per week there must be a change in the warning order and recce process to permit proper recce which will assist in planning rather than cause rewrites at the last minute. Although there was sufficient time for rest (which the troops loved), weapons maintenance, rehearsals, and coord with FEOs and other COYs, the essential portions of battle procedure revolving around recce were having to be cut short or aborted entirely. This made the plan less sound, and as a result meant that order for the troops and rehearsals which they conducted were less meaningful than they should have been. If the point of these exercises is to test skills and teach from lessons learned, then we should make sure to have all good lessons being taught each time, not half-assed ones.



Would you say that this impacted negatively more the AAR and lessons learned side of things, or the battle procedure?  On the battle procedure side, if a force is so limited by its NEED to go through a detailed planning process in which it cannot respond to a tactical situation in less than 48 hours, something drastically needs to change, as in the real world, operations must shift on the fly to adapt to changes in a non-static environment.

IRT water, from what I remember on the Stalwat Guardian '04 thread from last year, this issue was identified as well.  Resupply is always an issue.  One possible expedient fix is to field a portable water purification device (MSR Miox) at the section level to allow units a greater ability to 'self-sustain'.



			
				Danjanou said:
			
		

> If you got rid of it what would you do with all those surplus to need Lt.Cols/Majors and/or CWOs/MWOs   after their "battalion" has deployed their comopany of platoon to the composite unit.   :



IRT the regimental COs and other 'non-players', wouldn't it make sense to put these types on some sort of 'battlefield tour' in a Suburban or panel van and have them involved in structured observational/TEWT/something that would reduce the strain on units having to provide each CO with a vehicle?


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## brin11 (1 Sep 2005)

Any comments from the maintenance side?  I'd be interested in hearing how the ex went for them.


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## JBP (1 Sep 2005)

Northern Touch said:
			
		

> The trench system was a good go but not to many people were excited about it being filmed.




Speaking of that, where can I see it/get a copy, or what news station covered it if you have the info?

Joe


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## jmorische (2 Sep 2005)

A few more pennies to throw into the ring...

On the point of armoured recce. In our case armoured recce was across the river and in place to establish a fiegn for the attck. The unfortunate event however was that they (two patrols, including the patrol commander) were captured by the EN force. What made matters worse was the fact that they were captured with marked maps and written orders. This was not so hot. After being released (which in the real world I'm not so convinced would occur) the patrol engaged an OP rather than the main position. Poop happens as has been said. Pointing the finger at the infantry and saying they don't know how to properly employ such assets may in this case may not be quite accurate.

On the point of flexibility and compressed time cycles. I would agree that in the real world you work with what you have and get 'er done as it were. But there are some observations that I have on this point. One, combining units, with over 60% new recruits with between 3-5 days of actual field work would not happen in the real world. Units deployed overseas now have considerable work-up training and work together for long periods even before that pre-training even begins. The reality of reservist exercises like this does impose serious constraints. In orders, there is no 'As per SOP' because most of these troops have never assaulted a significant trench system, or in-depth obstacle plan. For that matter as I understand it, few go beyond section training in the field to conduct platoon sized fighting patrols. That reality requires far more significant planning and rehearsing than the real world would tolerate or necessitate because of the work that troops would already see prior to encountering real situations. Two, these exercises are, or should be, puposeful teaching tools. This is what the AAR process in predicated upon.  The idea that one would squander the opportunity to show brand new troops the proper way to complete any of these past objectives seems ridiculous. Particularly when many of these lost opportunities appear to be a result of higher commencing their battle procedure at a fairly late point in the game.

I hope that this doesn't sound like pointless bitching. The problem that I really have is that these same issues were identified last year, and it appears that little thought was given to possible remedies. Showing troops the quick fix rather than the right one seems like a poor way to start their tactical minds working.

Dileas.


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## TCBF (2 Sep 2005)

How were the After Action Reviews?

Tom


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## TangoTwoBravo (3 Sep 2005)

Really good points all, with some excellent feedback from the enemy force.  As much as large scale exercises can suck, they are important to conduct.  You learn a lot about soldiering and the business of sustaining soldiers when you exercise for more than a weekend and enforce the use of the echelon system.  Water and food are combat commodities and you have to get it right.

Things go wrong both tactically and administratively, and to pick up on TCBF's question on the AARs, as long as Lessons Learned come out we are doing well and the exercise is serving its purpose.  I can see several lessons learned coming out in in this thread.  AARs kill battle procedure (I lived that on the BTE), but if they are done right they work wonders.    

My last reserve concentration as a participant was TRILLIUM GUARD in 1994 as a Recce Tp Leader.  It was a two week exercise and I learned bags (we were all Cougar guys, so the learning curve was steep).  What is funny is that we had the same hurdles that I read here.  The only Sr NCO in my Troop was a Marine (infantry) who we brought along as an exchange.  Thank god he was there, even if my Tp started saying "Roger That" on the radio a lot.  He protected me from myself on various occasions and helped the MCpls and untrained 2Lts who were Patrol Commanding rise to the occasion.  He also made sure that we stopped every now and then during training and talked about what was going right or wrong.  We also had coordination problems between arms.  My Tp was tasked to secure an LD for an infantry company.  The first company to arrive was the wrong one (they had misread their map).  After guiding them the right way the second coy came up.  The OC was quite irate that a bunch of Iltis were sitting on his LD and asked why I was there.  Suprise is a priciple of war I suppose, but it sucks to suprise your own side. 

As long as you all have some "takeaways" from the exercise then it was a success.  Please keep on posting your own lessons learned (I have a professional interest in my new posting).

Cheers,

2B


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## Spanky (3 Sep 2005)

The AARs for my troop were pretty useless.  We had one at the Sqn level after the screen, (don't get me started on THAT topic), none after the heliborne task, and one after the convoy escort.  The convoy escort AAR was conducted at the troop level without the troop officer.  He was required at SHQ to wait around for the OC.  As far as we were concerned the AAR process was there in name only, and was just a checkmark made on a list of things to do.


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## TangoTwoBravo (3 Sep 2005)

Spanky,

What went wrong with the screen?  

2B


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## Yeoman (5 Sep 2005)

R031 Pte Joe said:
			
		

> Speaking of that, where can I see it/get a copy, or what news station covered it if you have the info?
> 
> Joe



after talking to one of the cameramen that was doing this, they said they were contracted to work for the army to film it for the army as some type of video they'll be making for the end of the year.
so that's what could be happening.
Greg


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## career_radio-checker (6 Sep 2005)

After reading these posts about how coms suck it kinda makes me want to cover my cap badge in this thread.   But then again I am only now starting to realize the frustrations other units have with comms. You see, In the glorious circus that is the communication reserve our exercises consist of a bunch of CP LSVWs; 20 meters apart with brigadier-general sigpig in the back of the pod trying desperately to make up interesting traffic to be sent over the airwaves. We rarely get a chance to tackle real problem-solving like NS kit and communicating over long distances. I thoroughly enjoyed myself out with the RTR boys in Beachburg. Catered meals and daily showers aside they were an extremely professional bunch and were positive almost all the time. They even gave me a PDR which I rarely ever receive.

Some things I took in from the ex:
1.     Patience is a virtue. Just because you're up at 00:00 for the hourly R/C doesn't mean SQ pte stuck on radio shift is. 
2.     Legacy sets and 77 sets rule. TCCCS should be tossed to the lions.
3.     When you're at the RRB site by yourself for 4 1/2 hours remember to bring something to cover the radios.
4.     Being RRB rocks.
5.     Helicopter rides are cool.
6.     Remember to bring your camera with you on the helicopter.
7.     Modern comms kit sucks (i.e the vixam mast that never could be fully extended; the lack of co-ax cable, the lack of 522's) Vietnam era   
         masts rule. 
8.     Modern kit should be disposed of in similar method to TCCCS.
9.     Armour guys treat you like gold.

With all misgivings about the Comm Reserve aside I take my trade very seriously. When you guys say "Comms sucked golf balls through a gardenhose" I take that as a failure on my part. Certain things I can't help and feel the same frustration i.e limited supply of radios, batteries and callsigns. Then again kit is a reoccurring issue. What I would have like to have done is gotten the comms all sorted out in the first couple of days. Something you guys could pass on to higher when comms are difficult is to get one of the sigs guys down there and look at it. I have only been in for a couple of years and acknowledge my experience is still in its infancy but I do know our main job is to 'provide and maintain comms, and to me, going to the problem source is alot more productive than me sitting in a CP repeating myself or getting someone to relay a message.
      I know recce guys know their radios well but here are a couple of reminders. 
1.   The radios you used were VHF which is 'line of sight'. One antenna has to be able to see the other; the higher your antenna is comms are better.   You'd be surprised at the distance you could use with just an iltis mount, just as long as your antenna is erected and not obstructed. 
2.   If using the manpack (522), loose that 1.2 meter whip and go to the 3 m one. much better comms.
3.   Also when using the 522 as a manpack and you hear a 'bee boo bee boo' means batteries are low. change them if you got 'em. If not   
go to a lower power setting.
4.   Avoid those Gawd awful 521s, useless useless useless. You might as well be talking into a brick.

That's all. Thanks alot for the fun times 
Zero out.


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## Jarnhamar (6 Sep 2005)

Good post career_radio-checker.

I'm pretty sure when people say comms sucked it's at the 521/522 level.
Well it is as far as Ic an see.

I've found in the Canadian Forces the comms situation is getting pretty bad.  I've been assigned as a signaller a few times and also just been in charge of raidos a lot and it's near criminal what we have to work with.

I'm not sure the wisdom behind the 521s. I've had some guys preach to me about how they are infact useful for their intended job and such. (Probably from the same guys who sware by the LSVW). You can't program the 521s unless you have the elusive Jbox or laptop or whatever. Combine that with their near baseballs throw range and it's near useless.
522s are a shade better. Apparently they are lighter than the 77 sets but i never noticed. The biggest problem with the 522s IMHO is the batteries.  Your suposed to go through 2 every 24 hours or something but all our batteries are beaten up, cracked and often NS.  Over the summer out of about 80 522 batteries atleast 50 to 60 were NS. You can never change them around in the field fast enough and for anything longer than a 3 day excersise raido operators need atleast 6 to 8 batteries on hand just for a fudge factor.

In the end we all just end up using army and personal cell phones and little FRS's that we always get in shit for using but we use them anyways because they work.


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## chrisf (6 Sep 2005)

The usual batteries used for the 522 during training exercises are Nickle Cadmium. And they're used again and again and again. Unforunately, they're generally not cared for in between use. Two factors which combine to produce an extremely poor end product. If they're not properly charged, it produces memory effects within the battery, if they're charged and stored for any more then 30 days, you're going to get barely any charge off them without recharging.

The 521s? Garbage. Plain and simple. Oversized, underpowered, dificult to program. Virtually indestructible though.


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## Pte. Bloggins (6 Sep 2005)

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents in here too. 

-Ditto on the asking us sigs types for help when comms don't work. The ARR, who I was with, were pretty good with doing that. Alot of reoccuring radio problems, however, can usually be troubleshooted relatively easily. 80% of the time, it's either a crypto error (meaning that there's no crypto in the radio, and most of the time there's not supposed to be any), and the beeping goes away by holding down the pretzel switch for a few seconds. Either that, or the battery's low. Check to make sure your antenna's screwed on, your headset works, and you're on the right frequency (you'd be surprised) and Presto! Your radio should now have turned from a useless paperweight into a hopefully functional piece of communications equipment.  If it's still not working, talk to one of us sigs types (we're more then happy to help) but we may have to tell you that we can't do anything, as there's something else wrong with your radio that you'll need a tech for. And this should be done while you can still exchange your radio for a new one, not 10 minutes before you're supposed to go out on patrol. 

-As for comms difficulties after units have been deployed, where possible, again, get one of the sigs to come have a look if you're having comms problems. I admit that I'm still pretty fresh at the game, but ensuring that you can talk to whoever you need to is my job. 

- A note to all the Niners out there who were on the net: as much as we at Zero understand your message was very important and needed to be relayed NOW, the reason that it might take me a half hour to deal with your RRR request or Supreq is because something of a higher priority may have come up, for example another callsign may be sending me contact reports that need to be dealt with first. The Duty O's just as busy as the operators are, so please bear with us, we'll pass on your message as soon as we can.

- As for the comms gear itself, I'll admit that it has plenty to be improved on, like whoever came up with the idea to only be able to load the 521 with a J-box or laptop should be tarred and feathered, but it's often too easy to blame the equipment. It's what we're stuck with, and it ain't being replaced anytime soon, so we may as well adapt and overcome, right? Switching to cell phones and Motorolas works fine for exercise, but what are you going to do if you need comms on operations? Can't very well use cell phones and Motorolas there can you.

Rant over. Overall, good ex, learned loads.


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## Eowyn (6 Sep 2005)

Cpl Bloggins said:
			
		

> - A note to all the Niners out there who were on the net: as much as we at Zero understand your message was very important and needed to be relayed NOW, the reason that it might take me a half hour to deal with your RRR request or Supreq is because something of a higher priority may have come up, for example another callsign may be sending me contact reports that need to be dealt with first. The Duty O's just as busy as the operators are, so please bear with us, we'll pass on your message as soon as we can.



Depending on the level of the net, Coy, Bn or Bde, having RRRs or SupReqs on the same net as Contact reports isn't a good thing.  The RRRs and SupReqs should be passed on the Admin net, not the Command net.


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## Gayson (6 Sep 2005)

I found this SG had a much better training value for me than last years, despite the horid lack of vehicles and comms.

I absolutely loved the mine field placed south of one of the bridges, we got quit a surprise when we drove into it (after my crew commander finally agreed with me that it was marking a mine field not a uxo).


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## chrisf (6 Sep 2005)

Eowyn said:
			
		

> Depending on the level of the net, Coy, Bn or Bde, having RRRs or SupReqs on the same net as Contact reports isn't a good thing.   The RRRs and SupReqs should be passed on the Admin net, not the Command net.



Assuming that the admin net is available.

Beyond that, what drove me nuts is the fact that we (ARCON) had perfectly good land lines in place, and the radios were still used for administrative tasks.


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## Spanky (6 Sep 2005)

"Catered meals and daily showers aside they were an extremely professional bunch and were positive almost all the time."  No wonder they were positive all the time!!!!!  It would be hard NOT to be positive with catered meals, daily showers, and rentals.  I was wondering why few (if any) of those pers were posting regarding SG05.


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## figure_11 (7 Sep 2005)

Ahh, SG05.

Treating blisters and burns for B Coy is mostly what I did. But I gotta say, the couple families of bears that were constantly raiding our hides was a great bonus.


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## DG-41 (7 Sep 2005)

> When you guys say "Comms sucked golf balls through a gardenhose" I take that as a failure on my part.



Unless you're in charge of deciding what radios we get; not at all. In fact, when our CP picked the same hill to set up on as the RRB, a friendly sig helped us sort out our intercom boxes. I got no beefs with the sigs.

The core problem with the comms was that we weren't given the stuff we need. Recce needs good long-range coms. So there needs to be a 522 vehicle mount with amplifier in every vehicle, and a 522 manpack in every patrol for dismounted coms. We're also supposed to run land line from the OP to the OP base so that the OP can reap the benefits of the high-power, non-battery-limited coms in the vehicles. The CP needs 2 amplified radios and a mast.

These are *minimums*, not "nice to haves".

Instead we had no vehicle mounts for the 522s, some vehicles had 521s instead of 522a, the CP (when we had one) had no mast, and we had effectively no spare batteries, and bno field phones

So we lost on raw transmission power (vehicle mounts put out more power than running the 522 off batteries) and we got tied to battery capacity instead of running off vehicle power. 

There's just no way this was *ever* going to work. Even if every single battery worked at 100% capacity, there still wasn't enough power to drive a 48 hour op.

If the Powers That Be learn anything from this ex, it should be this: Recce needs vehicle mounts for their radios and dedicated CPs with masts. If they don't get them, they'll be woking off FRS and cellphones.

DG


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## GunfighterSB (7 Sep 2005)

My Unit's Experience in Beechburg was an eye opener. I did not know how fun Recce could be. 3RTR was away from Brigade, our unit was far away from 3RTR and I was (relatively farther away than when I was Armour) far away from SHQ. The feeling of independance was exhilarating. (but we still want a BIG Gun).

Comms sucked - Yes but we had 77 sets and the 1st Thing I'll teach other people in my unit are Improvised Antenae. (Especially the Long Range - Uni Directional Patrol Antena). 

The Iltises were on their last legs. But thanks to some enterprising crews, we kept them from going permanently VOR.

The AAR was a good feedback. But I thought the process was 1) Task, 2) AAR, 3) Same Task with the AAR improvements installed then go back to 1? We had some tasks were there was only 1 AAR and no chance to repeat it again. Last year's AAR was more engaging and had more iterations.

The ROEs were confusing in Beachburg. Are we at war or are we not? Do we have the right to Hunt down the BFAA or do we just keep an Eye out for them? What happens when we see the BFAA "harm" a Bluelander. Why do we still sling our rifles on a "presence" patrol when we have just heard updated news that Jiggs Casey and the Gang are headed our way? What happens when an "intruder" enters our Harbour - Can we shoot them/tackle them/make rude signals to them after sounding the alarm?

If the 3RTR Co's intent was to make the Bluelanders in Beachburg see that the CF as a better choice than BFAA, should we not Shoot a BFAA on Site or at least capture them? (Showing that besides being gentle and cudlier, we can kick any of the Bluelander's Enemies)

The confusion was not only evident of the Patrol Level, but we could not get answers from Squadron or Regiment.

There are alot of legacy equipment in Meaford. I'm sure if we ask nicely we can get them all.


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## Sharpey (8 Sep 2005)

My 2 cents on the Ex.

Not bad at all. No real complaints this year with the exception of the typical few that come with every ex. Comms is one. The 521's that worked occasionaly, one 522 in my Troop and once in the vehicles, the 77 sets that again, surprise, didn't work. So flying around in Ilti with maybe 2 working radios for the troop sucks, but I am used to it. The FRS's that say 3km range, as a future note, actually only means 500m!

Water was in short supply and at times food as well...no doubt not a Regimental problem but a higher one. We found that out the hard way after our Hel Op. Once the pilots dropped the infantry, instead of picking us up like they were supposed to, they decided to fly home, leaving us to hump about 6 km to an MLicopter LZ. On the way, we stumbled through the back door of an En poisition. They were kind enough to leave a large map model showing all their defences for us to few. Once we noticed the LAV down the hill by a pair of rockets, we decided to mosey on our way. 

Of course, Pet is not like Essex county, and the hills and more hills drained our water supply fast and at the end, the troop was dry! Once the MLicopter finally came to our third pickup point that had been decided upon, we had a sigh of releif as they brought along a Medic and two water gerrys.

Hmm what else. Started the ex as E Ptrl Commander and finished as A! Quick way to learn the job by just throwing ya in the breech. I feel I handled it well as the OC gave me a personal "at-a-boy" after the Escort Fiasco we had. No comms was the route of the problem there. With no comms, and being the forward security element, you have no idea the convoy got cut off after a Truck crew member wondered into the woods and got lost after a T-flash whent off. Bumping into the advanced Recce kept my pace slower and ended up being jammed between an HL lumbering down the track behind me and the advance Recce. With a few other misunderstandings along the way, the convoy ended up at it's hide, end of story. Quick thinking from the OC I felt saved that fiasco.

In repayment, the next day 3 ARR did their own thing and whent force on force. Good job I say from both Regiments. To my surpise, a log in the road can really mess up a patrols day! All in all, it whent well, booseted our moral and got rid of that cumbersome ammo we had left.

SO to summerize:

cons: better / more radios; more available water
pros: valuable training not normally done at the Regimental level; depite Regimental "differences" we sucked it up and worked as a team


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## Sharpey (8 Sep 2005)

DG-41 said:
			
		

> All the bridges had recce on them - the Armoured Recce squadrons had been in place for at least 12 hours prior to the LIBs arriving on their birds, and our troops at least didn't just do static OPs, but instead did a lot of agressive patrolling. Some of our patrols made it all the way into the enemy admin areas.
> 
> But the LIBs made, in general, poor use of this resource, operating as if recce wasn't even there. Were you not told?
> 
> DG



I experienced this after the ex while talking to a Coy Cmdr I work with on the Civvie side. Apparently, they had no idea we were on the ground and in some cases were suprised to see us on their LZ when they landed. Sounds to me like the way up's arn't talking to each other. In one scenario, our guys were patrolling and doing point Recce's for at least 24 hours before the Infantry sent in their own Recce to do what we have done the past day or so! Does nobody trust our ability as Recce or is nobody talking? I mean, Recce is all we do, and we are a Brigade Asset, we are the eyes for all arms! Or am I wrong? 

And to support DG's comment. Some of our patros monitored en activity for 24 hrs + and infiltrated the positions, both the bridges and rear areas. Like my previous post mentioned, one position we ended up getting the location for the entire grid sqaure! Mine fields, OP's etc... If comms worked it all could have been passed up! 

Communication!! Yes the ex whent well for 3ARR but it seems, we still arn't employed 100% the way we should be.


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## TCBF (8 Sep 2005)

"The confusion was not only evident of the Patrol Level, but we could not get answers from Squadron or Regiment.'

- This an Ex?  Okay, shoot a bad guy, claim self-defence, let the powers that be sort it out.  If you want an issue resolved, then make it an issue.

- You should be issued Exercise ROEs in hard copy.  If not, it is a command failure. In any case, an ROE cannot usurp self defence.

- " It is better to be tried by twelve than carried by eight."

Tom


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## 1CP (12 Sep 2005)

As a first time poster, I'd just like to thank the good folks who made this available. It is truly a great resource. Keep up the good work.

As someone who is prone like most of us to find fault with most exs, equipment etc. I would like to say that I thought overall SG05 was a overall very well run ex for the most part and the objectives and timelines (well always very tight) forced people to think on their feet and adapt. 

Recce was forced to picket the positions in the daylight, which makes things hairy, as well as at night to get decent information on the bad guys. Moreover, the enemy was well disciplined vs. the typical 4x QL-2s with a light-duties Mcpl sitting around a campfire trying to be found.

Kudos to the 1RCR guys for their siting, prepping and defending positions which proved to be very challenging to find, infiltrate and attack.

Of the 3 positions we attacked, only the bridge was at the grid we were given, I suspect largely because they could not pick it up and move it. 

On the Bridge our company did, as was mentioned earlier, assault the bridge from both sides at once. The DS did kill a lot of our guys (wrongly as it turned out) because they saw some friendlies blazing away at a bunker and assumed it was a blue on blue. There would have been less casualties on the bridge but probably more in the firebase as the badguys spotted it and hit it with arty. Net-net it was probably a wash.

The window for getting a force across the other side was a pretty thin one, but fortunately our OC recognized the opportunity and put half the company across during our chopper rehearsal time the day before. Overall it worked out quite well I thought. The other neat thing was that we sent in engineers the night before in a 2-man recce boat to cut the explosives on the bridge which meant that the bad guys couldn't have blown the bridge if they wanted to.

With all good points, there are always a couple points to improve:

1) Comms - as usual it was abysmal. As most of us recognize sending anyone out more than a few 100 meters with a 521 and expecting to hear back is wishful thinking. The Recce Dets, PLs, Coy HQs, patrols, OPs etc all need 522s at least, which were in very short supply. We managed to snag a 77-set, which made all the difference but its tough if now one else has comms. There is no doubt in my mind it is a training issue for a good deal of it, but as they say it needs to be idiot proof because sooner or later an idiot will need to use it. 

Given that we will likely have to deal with the problem for the foreseeable future I would recommend pushing comms trg at the units and not just the usual, strip/assemble and VP stuff. Try and get the soldiers to spend some time trouble shooting and prep some field expedient antennas and take with them so at least c/s 19 can talk to 0 etc.

As one of the prontos posted earlier, they were looking for a challenge. So maybe it would be a good idea to push some of those guys down to coy level to sort out some of the headaches and teach the rest of us how to make the maximum use of our kit.

2) We seem to have raised a number of leaders who have a hard time thinking beyond the rifle Pl/coy. The importance of support elements can not be understated. I'm not sure if it's just the lack of familiarity with what other c/s due or the attitude that we can do it all our selves. In our BN, one of the coys was actually offer a Recce Sect and refused! Having a full rifle Pl is nice but if no-one is there to guide them in or the same guy who does has to rush back and become part of the assault force you are going to waste lives.

3) The smoker - warm pop and cold pizza. Nuff said.

Overall a good ex. No doubt if I thought a little harder there would be more things to complain about, but as a teaching tool, which is what it was, I think the new troops were exposed to a great deal and the leadership was challenged.


1CP


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## Jarnhamar (12 Sep 2005)

Someone I spoke with brought up a good point.

If we were to have  a smoker, with the ever evil substance known as alcohol, the leadership would have had to have 10 hour + briefings about how to identify drunk soldiers and deal with them.

You treat soldiers like kids and their going to act like kids, to spite you.

Treat soldiers like soldiers and that's what you'll get.


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## MikeM (12 Sep 2005)

Well said Ghost, couldn't agree more. Bang on.


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## Bomber for Life (16 Sep 2005)

brin11 said:
			
		

> Any comments from the maintenance side?   I'd be interested in hearing how the ex went for them.



Not from the Maint Side, but from someone who had to go throught the Veh DAG. 

The system that was set up this year over at 2 Service Btn was great, we were in and out with guns and everything VERY quick. Last year we sat on the Madawa all day waiting to pass through. So cudo's to whomever set that up.


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## bran (11 Sep 2008)

Hey guys, this might be a stupid question but im new to the military and have my Bn AAG just wondering what it is exactly?

thanks


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## George Wallace (11 Sep 2008)

ONT said:
			
		

> Hey guys, this might be a stupid question but im new to the military and have my Bn AAG just wondering what it is exactly?
> 
> thanks



The Arrival Assistance Group.  It is where you will get all of your Administration completed that will indicate your availability to deploy.  You will have to bring in current documentation, such as Passport, Drivers Licence, Health Card, Needle Book, Dog Tags, 404's and ID Card, if you have them and ensure that they are not expired or expiring.  You will check to see if your MPRR us correct.  You will fill out a new PEN form, a Memorial Cross form, a Family Care form, a Physical Fitness form, a will if you haven't already, and perhaps a few other forms.  You will be interviewed by your Platoon officer or WO.  

It is just a lot of administration that has to be done on a regular basis to keep all your information current.


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## bran (11 Sep 2008)

Thanks for the quick reply, I guess it's going to be a very interesting night


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## Nfld Sapper (11 Sep 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The Arrival Assistance Group.  It is where you will get all of your Administration completed that will indicate your availability to deploy.  You will have to bring in current documentation, such as Passport, Drivers Licence, Health Card, Needle Book, Dog Tags, 404's and ID Card, if you have them and ensure that they are not expired or expiring.  You will check to see if your MPRR us correct.  You will fill out a new PEN form, a Memorial Cross form, a Family Care form, a Physical Fitness form, a will if you haven't already, and perhaps a few other forms.  You will be interviewed by your Platoon officer or WO.
> 
> It is just a lot of administration that has to be done on a regular basis to keep all your information current.



Don't forget to bring in any outstanding claims (i.e. Route Letters and Travel Orders) from the summer too.


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