# "PTSD will be presumed to be work-related"



## mariomike

Yesterday's news release may be of interest to active and retired police officers, firefighters and paramedics.

May 24, 2012
Alberta:
"The Workers’ Compensation Amendment Act will allow firefighters, police officers, sheriffs and paramedics to receive compensation for PTSD without having to prove their condition is work-related. Alberta will be the first province in Canada to provide such coverage.":
http://alberta.ca/NewsFrame.cfm?ReleaseID=/acn/201205/3236580990CF1-C6E8-FA7D-8356F8A75543B5F7.html

"What coverage is in place for other professions?   
 Those not covered under the proposed legislation can still submit a claim for PTSD. The difference is that they would have to prove their claim. In other words, if a first responder is diagnosed with PTSD, it will be presumed to be work related, unless proven otherwise."

"What professions are considered to be ‘first responders’?
First responders are typically considered to be paramedics, firefighters and police officers. This proposed legislation also includes sheriffs."

"This legislation also extends to those previously in these roles."


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## Dkeh

But no soldiers? Awesome.


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## OldSolduer

Dkeh said:
			
		

> But no soldiers? Awesome.



This is provincial legislation, not Federal.


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## Dkeh

Whoops, my mistake. I guess that's what I get for skipping over the date and location  :-[


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## dogger1936

Excellent progressive thinking Alberta  

Question is now....a soldier, a RCMP officer, and a Edmonton police officer all suffer from the same injury.

Who benefits, who loses.

Having said that very glad to see some form of government recognizing the stuff people have to deal with to provide safety and security. Regardless of who benefits more; I`m very glad to see a fraction of the population showing some form of compassion.


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## OldSolduer

Give it time. Eventually all the provinces will enact similar legislation.


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## the 48th regulator

Folks,

Soldiers have been diagnosed, recognized, and have been receiving compensation for many years for Operational Stress Injuries, both through the CF and VAC.  We are also the first organization, and Nation, to provide peer support for those that suffer from OSIs.

dileas

tess


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## dogger1936

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Folks,
> 
> Soldiers have been diagnosed, recognized, and have been receiving compensation for many years for Operational Stress Injuries, both through the CF and VAC.  We are also the first organization, and Nation, to provide peer support for those that suffer from OSIs.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Workers compensation paid to Edmonton police force members suffering from PTSD compared to the NVC lump sum. 

As for the `peer` support through OSSIS; that's worthy of a topic all to itself.


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## mariomike

> Give it time. Eventually all the provinces will enact similar legislation.



I expect our city chiefs are preparing for it.

They may point out that paramedics are expected to witness traumatic events. 

That PTSD claims increase overtime for the city.

That in recognition of the impact the job has on paramedics over the years and decades, they  provide support systems that include a psychologist, peer support team, employee ( and family ) assistance program ( EAP ), extended health benefits, and a long term disability ( LTD ) plan. 

Paid stress leave - that is not deducted from your sick bank - is now also written into the collective agreement.


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## Scott

I believe Alberta was also the first to pay firefighters for cancers related to the job.

I don't think this needs to turn into a CF vs emergency services debate


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## Pieman

Nice to read some good news for a change.


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## ttlbmg

Nice to see the progressive change in the provinces, one can only hope that it carries through to the federal level. It would be nice to see the move away from the "lump sum" payments. I think it gives the public another face to put on PTSD and occupational stress injuries, to see that CF members are not the only suffer from these issues. One can only hope that this spurs on the progressive mindset of the country.


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## Gunner

Scott said:
			
		

> I believe Alberta was also the first to pay firefighters for cancers related to the job.
> 
> I don't think this needs to turn into a CF vs emergency services debate



The Alberta legislation a couple of years ago for specific cancers thought to place firefighters at higher risk, as well as the recent PTSD for first responders is based on the presumption that it was caused by their employment.  Both were previously covered by WCB but the onus was on the claimant to show evidence that it was due to their exposure at the worksite and not because of other causes (lifestyle, etc).  Now if a firefighter, police officer, or EMS person develops PTSD, they will be able to claim through WCB without having to prove anything (in fact the onus would be on WCB to prove otherwise).


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## Scott

My bad, I should have specified the presumptive bit.

Either way, I am glad to Alberta leading change and hope the rest of the provinces follow suit.

Hell we had to fight to get tax credits and a LODD benefit in Nova Scotia, so I can't see this one happening soon, but hopefully not long.

That said, I'd like to see an injection into the CISD teams that we have, they're a big help.


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## mariomike

The Ontario Association of Police Services Boards are not on board,

"OAPSB calls upon the provincial government to:
· Refrain from making Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) a presumptive workplace injury for police under the Workplace Safety
and Insurance Act (WSIA)"; 
http://oapsb.ca/advocacy_postions/2012/03/20/qpd2012_ptsd.pdf

Ontario
2008-11-19 - PROTECTION OF FRONT-LINE WORKERS:
http://www.ottawaparamedics.ca/news.asp?id=274
"NDP MPP Cheri DiNovo is calling for amendments to the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act to address the issue of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) for front-line paramedics, firefighters and police officers."



			
				Scott said:
			
		

> That said, I'd like to see an injection into the CISD teams that we have, they're a big help.



My partner and I were sent to CISD for some long forgotten call when they introduced it on the job in the early 1980's. 
It was my first and last CISD. T-EMS responds to 265,000 9-1-1 calls a year. Call volume was too high to send on duty paramedics who did not request it. The cost of doing CISD on overtime was high. 

Most never took advantage of CISD. It was voluntary. On the other hand, there were a few who requested it after almost any call they found "difficult".

They have this "in the event of a large-scale critical incident, such as a natural disaster or terrorist attack.":
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2560

Regarding CISD in EMS, if interested,

"Another nail in CISD's coffin":
http://www.emtcity.com/topic/2961-another-nail-in-cisds-coffin/

"EMS Myth #3: Critical Incident Stress Management (CISM) is effective in managing EMS-related stress":
http://www.emsworld.com/article/10325074/ems-myth-3-critical-incident-stress-management-cism-is-effective-in-managing-ems-related-stress


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## mariomike

October 10, 2012

"On Wednesday at Queen’s Park, DiNovo announced Bill 129, her attempt to get presumptive legislation for front-line workers such as police, firefighters and paramedics who develop PTSD on the job.":
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1269219--cheri-dinovo-announces-bill-to-fast-track-benefits-for-workers-suffering-from-ptsd

"The bill is similar to one that has been recently tabled in the Alberta legislature."


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## Wookilar

I wonder if any senior hand-wringers from VAC or the VRAB are watching this? It turns their whole procedure on its ear.

This mind set of presumption is exactly what VAC is supposed to do, but I have yet to hear them do it. The onus is directly on us to _prove_ PTSD is a result of our "employment."

Nice to see Alberta (and hopefully Ontario) step up and reverse the insurance company mentality.


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## mariomike

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Nice to see Alberta (and hopefully Ontario) step up and reverse the insurance company mentality.



There is some resistance from the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police ( OACP ):

"Stressful – EYE can‟t really blame the folks at the Police Association of Ontario (PAO) for being stressed out about the OACP‟s efforts to get the Ministry of Health to help the policing community proactively address the issue of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). For the unions, they can see their holy grail – presumptive legislation – within grasp, especially in an election year.

While some in the Ontario Government might be inclined to move ahead with presumptive legislation, MOL officials are well aware that they are heading toward unleashing a financial tsunami upon not just on municipalities, but the Ontario Government itself (since the OPP will also be bearing the potentially massive costs for presumptive legislation).":
http://www.oacp.ca/upload5/news/Eye_on_Queens_Park_February_2011.pdf
( Continued on page 4. )

And on Tuesday from the Ontario Association of Police Services Boards (OAPSB):
October 9, 2012
"Presumptive Legislation for PTSD Not the Answer":
http://www.oapsb.ca/news/2012/10/10/oabpsstatementptsd.pdf

"It should be noted that the vast majority of police work directly or indirectly for municipalities, so costs associated with such legislation would be borne largely by municipalities rather than the provincial government -- at a time when policing costs have escalated to unsustainable levels."

According to the Bill, "Time limits do not apply:
   (5)  The time limits set out in subsections 22 (1) and (2) do not apply to the filing of a claim in respect of post traumatic stress disorder."


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## Scott

Holy grail. What an utter fucking crock. Yeah, my holy grail after 15 years of fires, wrecks and other calamities has always been to nurture my bad dreams, and a shot at cancer, simply to wrestle some money out of someone. The financial tsunami, if it does happen, will be in part because of piss poor management of these issues in the past.

Fucksticks.


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## mariomike

The Association of Municipalities of Ontario ( AMO ) issued this News Release on October 12, 2012.

"Under this draft legislation, the cause of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) among emergency service workers (police, fire, EMS) would be presumed to have occurred in the workplace, unless proven otherwise, and the workers would automatically be entitled to WSIB benefits.":
http://www.amo.on.ca/WCM/AMO/AMO_Content/Legislation/Bill_129/PTSDBillMustServeEmployeesandTaxpayers.aspx


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## Nemo888

That this legislation was needed is the travesty. That bean counters were trying to screw people out of benefits that they obviously deserved should have been fixed years ago.


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## Journeyman

Dammit Scott, I was on a roll   

I had almost an entire page of  <You are ignoring this user>   :nod:


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## mariomike

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> That this legislation was needed is the travesty. That bean counters were trying to screw people out of benefits that they obviously deserved should have been fixed years ago.



If this Bill is passed, because there are no time limits for making a claim, it will also be welcome news for pensioners.


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## Scott

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Dammit Scott, I was on a roll
> 
> I had almost an entire page of  <You are ignoring this user>   :nod:



Sorry buds, no much pisses me off here...Pusser and his beard left a while back so I felt the need to vent. I'll PM you for hugs next time


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## Journeyman

:cheers:


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## mariomike

"MPP Cheri DiNovo determined not to give up fight for PTSD bill: It was just last Wednesday that MPP Cheri DiNovo stared confidently into the television cameras at Queen’s Park to announce a bill close to her heart.":
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1272543--mpp-cheri-dinovo-determined-not-to-give-up-fight-for-ptsd-bill

"However, in the wake of Premier Dalton McGuinty’s stunning resignation announcement Monday, all has been lost."


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## mariomike

November 3, 2012

"EDMONTON - Police officers, firefighters and paramedics who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder will soon have automatic coverage from the Workers’ Compensation Board, under new legislation passed by MLAs.

Bill 1, which gives “presumptive” coverage to first responders, was unanimously approved by all parties late Thursday, though not before considerable debate on whether to add more professions such as correctional officers, social workers and emergency health care workers.":
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Alberta+legislature+approves+enhanced+PTSD+coverage/7492468/story.html

Alberta is the first province to provide such coverage.


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## Loudubiel

Thank you for Posting this Mike...
Far too many EMS, Fire, Police and 911 Call Center Members are unfortunately 'still suffering in silence' ~ Hopefully this will now start to Change...
Respectfully,
Allan


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## Scott

Mr. Gray,

I hope that your rather benign post (one could have summed up with a +1) was not to draw attention to your sig line - one that looks very close to advertising to me and has been brought to the staff's attention previously.

If it was then it would piss me off.

I'm available via PM. I suggest you contact me. 

Respectfully,
Scott
Staff


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## mariomike

Dubiel Gray (Wm. Allan Gray) said:
			
		

> Far too many EMS, Fire, Police and 911 Call Center Members are unfortunately 'still suffering in silence' ~ Hopefully this will now start to Change...



I do not believe the recently passed PTSD legislation in Alberta ( first of its kind in Canada ) will change anything for 9-1-1 Call Receivers or Dispatchers. 

It only covers Police Officers, Firefighters, Paramedics / EMTs / EMRs and Alberta Sheriffs.

If presumptive legislation is passed in Ontario, I have heard opinions where I used to work that PTSD claims will "take off like wildfire". The police services expressed a similar concern.

Perhaps for pensioners. But, those still on the job have stress leave written into the collective agreement. They have a support system that includes a Psychologist, Peer Support Team, Employee Assistance Program, and long term Modified Duty for PTSD.  Modified Duty can last for years.

The pension plan for Police Officers, Firefighters and Paramedics allows them to retire after 30 years on a 70% pension. 

Extended Health Benefits pay for programs such as Bellwoods:
http://www.bellwood.ca/

They also have the option of going on Long Term Disability ( LTD ). That pays 75%.

If WSIB decides they require permanent modified work, the first option is to modify the job so the Paramedic can perform the essential duties. Due to the nature of our business, that is not possible.

The second option would be to place them in a comparable job elsewhere in the Department. However, being the smallest of the Emergency Services, there are no comparable jobs for Paramedics.

TFS members can be transferred from Operations Division to Fire Prevention, Quartermaster Section or Mechanical Division.

TPS is able to provide over 180 job opportunities for Police Officers.

The final option is to find them suitable employment.

Suitable employment is defined as employment consistent with the employee's skills and functional abilities that does not pose a health and safety hazard to the employee or co-worker.

Since the disability is not physical, finding suitable work with the City is not a problem. Whatever they decide is suitable, you must accept. You may be offered one or two choices. 

On the other hand, if Permanently Partially Disabled ( PPD ), Paramedics with physical disabilities ( such as bad backs ) are accommodated with clean, inside work with no heavy lifting and a thermostat on the wall. Crew Schedulers are an example.


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## Loudubiel

Thank you for the 'Clarification'!


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## mariomike

> "The Workers’ Compensation Amendment Act will allow firefighters, police officers, sheriffs and paramedics to receive compensation for PTSD without having to prove their condition is work-related. Alberta will be the first province in Canada to provide such coverage."



Manitoba may be next.

02/11/2013 

"Firefighters, police officers and paramedics face the debilitating effects of post-traumatic stress disorder":
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/helping-the-helpers-190643011.html

"Manitoba emergency services unions hope to fix that. They are calling on the provincial government to adopt a law -- much like Alberta's new legislation -- that recognizes post-traumatic stress disorder in firefighters, police and peace officers and emergency medical technicians."

"The law means if a doctor or psychologist diagnoses one of these workers with PTSD, it's "presumed" it's due to what happened in the course of the job, "unless the contrary is proven." "


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## mariomike

Ontario update.

1st Reading May 7, 2013

Bill 67
"An Act to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997 with respect to post-traumatic stress disorder".

"The Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997 is amended to create a rebuttable presumption relating to post-traumatic stress disorder affecting emergency response workers."

"...defines emergency response worker to mean a firefighter, paramedic or police officer."

"...states that if an emergency response worker suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, the disorder is presumed to be an occupational disease that occurred due to the employment as an emergency response worker, unless the contrary is shown."
http://www.ontla.on.ca/bills/bills-files/40_Parliament/Session2/b067.pdf


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## mariomike

This story may be of interest to young people considering a Paramedic program after high school.

6 Nov 2013

"In Canada, Paramedics Are the Most Likely to Develop PTSD"
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/canadian-paramedics-are-the-most-likely-citizens-to-develop-ptsd


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## mariomike

CTV January 29, 2014 

"Emergency workers twice as likely to suffer from PTSD:

"Firefighters, paramedics and police are asked to respond to the most traumatic situations --accidents, fires, murders. The sights they deal with on a continuous basis would leave most people in shock."

Read more: http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/emergency-workers-twice-as-likely-to-suffer-from-ptsd-1.1660817#ixzz2rwmW7p90

The story details the prevention and treatment of PTSD at TPS, TFS and T-EMS.

"Toronto Emergency Medical Services has taken a different approach at preventing PTSD. Toronto EMS has offered an in-house psychologist for more than 18 years. Moreover, a peer support team will be proactive and approach paramedics who have been at the scene of a tragedy as opposed to waiting for them to seek help."

Although the smallest of the three Emergency Services, T-EMS has had a full-time Staff Psychologist since the mid-1980s. 

With the assistance of the Employee Assistance Team, immediate response to Paramedics - active and retired- is available twenty-four hours-a-day, seven days-a-week.

Also, an update regarding the Ontario PTSD Bill for Police Officers, Firefighters and Paramedics:
http://yorkems.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/PTSD-Bill-67_FINAL.jpg


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## mariomike

Update from today at Queen's Park.

Thu Feb 27 2014 

"Ontario has moved a step closer to making it easier for police, firefighters and paramedics to claim benefits for post-traumatic stress disorder they’ve experienced because of their job.

MPPs voted unanimously Thursday to send a private member’s bill from New Democrat MPP Cheri DiNovo to a legislative committee for further study, the last hurdle before it could be called by the government for a final vote.

DiNovo said she does not know how many PTSD cases are pending and could be impacted by her legislation, which has raised concerns in some circles about compensation costs."

Alberta passed a similar law last year. 
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/02/27/cheri_dinovos_bill_would_give_benefits_to_police_firefighters_paramedics.html


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## mariomike

Feb 01, 2016 

Ontario is launching a plan to help first responders deal with the impact of post traumatic stress disorder, which the government calls a serious and debilitating injury.

Labour Minister Kevin Flynn says the stress and danger faced by police, firefighters and paramedics can have a lasting and serious effect not only on their physical health, but their mental health as well.

He says the government is looking at coverage for first responders with PTSD under the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, promises legislation in the very near future to help those with work-related PTSD injuries.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-launches-ptsd-program-1.3428913


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## mariomike

Good news for those still on the job,

Apr 05, 2016 

"Ontario has unanimously passed legislation recognizing post traumatic stress disorder as work-related illness for police, firefighters and paramedics."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ptsd-workplace-insurance-1.3521534


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## mariomike

Not great news for pensioners. I've never put a claim in for PTSD, or lost time from work because of it. Never been diagnosed with it.

But, some of us pensioners were under the rather misguided impression that we would be entitled to some cash for all the years on the job. There must be some sort of cumulative effect? 

But, the union told us we get nothing, unless we lost time.  Disappointed. Booooo!


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## mariomike

October 7, 2016

Quebec Paramedic gets PTSD. So they took her Ontario drivers licence away.
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-paramedic-with-ptsd-told-she-can-drive-again

Said they will downgrade her from Class F to G. Paramedics need a Class F. I actually needed a CZ. 
Sounds like she is battling with Ontario’s Ministry of Transportation _and_ Quebec WSIB.

She will get her Class G, but I can't see them giving back the Class F anytime soon, if ever. However, she only needs a G to drive her own car in Ontario. No idea how the Quebec driver licencing system works.

Cosenzo has been on medical leave from her paramedic job with the Coopérative des Paramédics de l’Outaouais since last October, when she responded to a traumatic call for a teenager who died by suicide. She has PTSD but feels her condition has improved.

That's Quebec. I have no idea how things work in Quebec. Paramedicine is provincially regulated.
http://www.paramedic.coop/

Her next battle is with the Quebec workplace insurance agency to recognize her PTSD.


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