# OPVs



## Ex-Dragoon (12 Jul 2004)

From the Ottawa Citizen 12 July 2004 by our very own a journalist:

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=04d72eb9-8539-4a86-a07c-45c2afa279b6

High time we did this and very needed. If it goes through it will be interesting to see what we name them as we are kind of running out of city names lol.


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## Sheerin (12 Jul 2004)

They could always dust off the names of some of our more honoured corvettes from WWII. 

Dragoon, how would you feel about serving with a crew of civilians and some military personnel?  

Or is the civies they're talking about like RCMP and DFO members?


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## Ex-Dragoon (12 Jul 2004)

I have no problems serving with anyone as long as they can do their job and pull their weight.

DFO/CCG no mention of RCMP.


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## Alex (13 Jul 2004)

Dragoon, would you say that there would be conflict between navy personnel and the civilians on the ships, like the article says? Could you see this as a possibility? I am a civilian so my knowledge is limited, but I am pretty sure that several other countries have ships with mixed personnel and they have no problem. What are your thoughts?


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## Ex-Dragoon (13 Jul 2004)

I am unaware of any navy that sails with a mixed crew on a major or minor surface combatant, auuxillaries and suppport ships yes. Not saying it isn't possible and does not happen but right now I can't think of any nation that does so.

As I said before I would have no problem sailing with a civillian personnel as long as they pull their weight and do their jobs. A lot of peoples reluctance will comes through dealing with a union. Give you a case in point. One time during a period of dockside maintenance some equipment was left out in the flats, I aske4d nicely if it could be moved out of the way. The workers stopped worked and complained to their union rep who complained to my cox'n that I was creating a stressfull work enviroment for the dockyard mateys. I got a major blast needless to say. Moral of the story if civillians sail and they are part of a union then its going to cause problems. That being said, I have met some excellent CCG guys who will bend over backwards for you.


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## Spr.Earl (13 Jul 2004)

Here's a link to the Brit. R.F.A. ,and if you go to the link about the fleet you will note that R.N. pers. serve alongside civies on some of the ship's.

http://www.rfa.mod.uk/#


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## Ex-Dragoon (14 Jul 2004)

Excellent link .


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## Cloud Cover (18 Jul 2004)

I am somewhat suspicious that the propsed OPV program will be executed on a 2 or 3 to 1 trade off for FFG's. I am concerned that the FFG fleet will be reduced to half strength, making FELEX more affordable while further accomplishing the unstated objective of eventual demilitarization by Canada. I would be very surprised to see the JSS or ASLV vessel see the light of day ... extremely influential special interest opposition is very strong against this ship, and there are several [tax payer funded] initiatives underway to persuade Cabinet to scuttle the program.  Without a replacement for the DDH, [and FELEX not representing a remotely suitable alternative for that capability] we are already well on the way to a coastal navy. Also, I am currently researching something that popped up on the CASR website under the SSK Vicotria section... is there a plan in the works for an SBS type unit in the CF? That is the impression I got from the site at :

  http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-navrhib.htm

I have not uncovered a single authoritative document to corroborate the claim made on the page- problem is the CASR website is extremely well researched and has an outstanding reputation as a highly reliable secondary source of intel. Anybody know the latest unclass scoop on this project?


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## Kirkhill (19 Jul 2004)

> extremely influential special interest opposition is very strong against this ship, and there are several [tax payer funded] initiatives underway to persuade Cabinet to scuttle the program.


 
OK W601, you've got my interest.  Care to elaborate?  What opposition, by whom and who is paying the bills?  

Don't you just hate teases? ;D

Cheers.


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## canuck101 (19 Jul 2004)

A good option for the OPVs i think would be a covette that the german navy.

Main characteristics ship platform:
Length, overall: 	88.30 m
Beam, overall: 	13.23 m
Design displacement: 	1,650 t

Propulsion:
2 diesel engines 	7,400 kW each
2 shafts with controllable pitch propellers
rudder roll stabilization system
Maximum speed 	> 26 kn
Range 	> 2,500 nm

Modules:
5 weapon modules

Crew :
Total: 	65

The specification of the new Class 130 generation of corvettes for the German Navy, defined on a competitive basis, has been finalised with the discision of the German Ministry of Defence to open contractual negotiations with the ARGE K130 for the building of 5 corvettes. The ARGE K130 brings together the shipyards Friedrich Lürssen Werft (FLW) and Nordseewerke (NSW), under the overall control of Blohm + Voss (B+V). The building contract was signed on 13 December 2001.

The design concept of the ARGE K130 is based on the development of B+V's MEKOÃ‚® Class A frigates and corvettes - a concept that has attracted significant interest on the international market - and on the latest FLW design concepts for export orders.

In important fields of technology, the developments that were begun for the Class 124 frigates, have been consistently followed through, for example in the area of on-board automation, in the computer and network technology and in the software for weapons and guidance systems.

In addition, the K130 incorporates numerous new developments and innovative proposals. As an example, the K130 will be the first naval ship in the world to be fitted with 2 drones for area reconnaissance and monitoring beyond the radar horizon. As far as the radar and infrared signature is concerned, the K130 has stealth properties. This permits deployment in coastal waters in particular within the remit of multinational rapid response forces.

A standard of accommodation and comfort hitherto unattained in naval vessels has been achieved. The accommodation is designed to take both male and female crews.

		l


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## Ex-Dragoon (19 Jul 2004)

Having to be working in Stad where doctrine and tactics are fine tuned I can assure you there are no plans to get rid of any CPFs or leave the 280s unreplaced. The program has been overhauled becuase it just got too enormous for its own good. They are back to the basics again. The K130 while an excellent class is still a corvette and what DND wants is something that can do coastal patrols, the OPV. The navy has no intention in becoming a coastal navy hence the JSS project, if anything you will see CPFs deploy more and more (oh joy).


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## canuck101 (21 Jul 2004)

Well if you are looking for a OPV the HMS Tyne is the first of the new River Class Future Offshore Patrol Vessels (FOPV) It looks to be the right size that we are looking for.

you can find it at this url http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3741.html


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Jul 2004)

River class are nice but part of the requirements is for the OPV to be able do to 20-25 knots. The River is below that at 16-17 knots.


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## canuck101 (21 Jul 2004)

Can i ask what is the speed that our Halifax class frigates go ;D


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Jul 2004)

_Janes_ has them listed to go 29+ knots, thats all I will say on a capability.


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## canuck101 (22 Jul 2004)

How about this OPV as an option

http://212.72.173.53/en/page.php?page_id=PG-96

Main characteristics ship platform:
Length, overall 	91.10 m
Length, DWL 	82.80 m
Beam 	12.85 m
Max. draught incl. propeller 	3.40 m
Full load displacement 	approx. 1,600 t
Range 	> 3,500 nm
Endurance 	20 days

Propulsion:
2 diesel engines 	4,750 kW each
2 generators 	800 kVA each
+ 350 kVA emergency
2 shafts fitted with controllable pitch propellers
Speed at full load displacement 	23 kn

Crew:
Total 	max. 70

Helicopter :
optional


The MEKOÃ‚® 100 OPV hull is based on the MEKOÃ‚® 100 design - six vessels are under current construction for the Royal Malaysian Navy - and the same principles form the baseline for the Polish corvettes. The all-steel hull is subdivided into nine watertight compartments and adopts the modular concept for the weapon and electronic systems. The ship service installations are mounted as packaged systems. Space and weight margins are provided for further mission modules, or for additional outfitting/upgrades at a later date.

Characteristic for the vessel is the large helicopter deck with flush fixation points for equipment and containers. The deck strength, size and hangar dimensions comply with the requirements for a 12-tonne helicopter.

A special feature taken from the MEKOÃ‚® corvette design is the main engine and generator diesel side exhausts leading through the hull's side shell. This feature enables greater flexibility and more unobstructed space in the upper decks.
The structure is designed in such a way as to easily accommodate the necessary filters for a NBC citadel to protect the accommodation area and engine rooms. All machinery is distributed in three different watertight compartments.

As the vessel has been designed for prolonged periods at sea with a high availability, a simple, rugged, twin shaft CPP propulsion design with high speed diesels as the prime movers was selected. For extended loitering speeds below eight knots, a PTI-Electric-Loiter Drive unit complements the system and permits unlimited slow speeds between 0 - 8 knots.

Two main generators are installed in individual engine rooms for electric power generation and distribution. In addition, an emergency and harbour generator is installed on the 1st deck. The main generator capacities ensure 100% redundancy, and the emergency generator is dimensioned to serve harbour loads. Ubiquitous AC and DC nets are provided for power distribution. Converters and transformers take care of special consumers and systems.

All ship service systems are laid out according to good merchant marine standards and comply to the Germanischer Lloyd rules and provide adequate redundancy. Special emphasis has been given to a modern, effective fire fighting system. In addition to the general seawater system, a fixed CO2 as well as a foam system is provided to protect the engine rooms. A dry powder system is installed on the flight deck and two monitors protect the vessel against sea surface oil fires and can be used when fighting fires on other ships.


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## Ex-Dragoon (22 Jul 2004)

Certainly a nice and seemingly capable ship. I am kind of hoping they go for something based upon the Irish Navy's Eithne class. That class was designed for the weather in the North Atlantic in mind.


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## canuck101 (24 Jul 2004)

If they are smart they would split the building of the OPVs between Vancouver and Halifax shipyards keeping everyone happy that is if the project comes to light. ;D


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## Sheerin (24 Jul 2004)

Do we have shipyards that are capable of building warships now?  I always thought that the two operational yards were Davie and St. John Shipping (is that what they're called?) and if so, haven't they both closed down?


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## canuck101 (24 Jul 2004)

Davie's is open St. John is closed there are shipyards in Vancouver and Halifax big enough to build a OPV.


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## Kirkhill (29 Jul 2004)

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34

Another version of an OPV.  Starting to get up in size and not ice-strengthened but relatively fast at 24 knots and has a heli-deck.


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## Ex-Dragoon (29 Jul 2004)

It does not meet 2 requirements that I can think of right away.....for the OPV to be about up to 1700 tonnes and for it to be ice strengthened.


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## Chimera (31 Jul 2004)

Just a thought - keeping with DND's tradition of recycling equipment wherever possible, would the 35mm AA guns that are set to be retired provide suitable armament for the OPV?  Or would a heavier gun be required?  I notice that the Italian OPVs and corvettes use the 76mm OTO, the same gun I believe as what our destroyers use.

I guess the question that needs to be answered is the what is the role the OPV's would fill?  Are they going to be limited to doing fishery patrols and inspections of merchant vessels in Canadian waters, or could they be deployed in foriegn waters, say to protect supertankers from small go-fasts in the Persian Gulf?


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Aug 2004)

Things change but the primary role of the OPVs will be for Canadian waters to free up the CPFs and destroyers more or less for overseas missions. While the 35mm are nice we already recycled the 40mm and put them on the MCDVs and ended up with a barely functioning system. hopefull they will buy 76mm Oto Melara's so these ships will have some teeth.


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## NavyGrunt (1 Aug 2004)

Barely functioning how? I was out with the IST's a while back and it seemed fine....


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Aug 2004)

I have seen so many OPDEF messages come across regarding the 40mm not working since the MCDVs came out its down right scary. They need a new main armament pure and simple.


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## NavyGrunt (1 Aug 2004)

Hey again Im sure you'd know better than i do. Ill ask around when I hit the coast next week. We didnt have any problems with them at my last shoot but like everything else Im sure it could stan to be replaced.


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Aug 2004)

Agreed...I don't think you guys would mind having newer and better kit. I know we never do.


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## Kirkhill (6 Aug 2004)

I think this is the vessel the New Zealanders are buying from Australia (2 of them) along with 2 30-35m inshore vessels and a small multi-role vessel (capable of transporting 250 troops with LAVs) all for 500 MNZDollars or about 427 MCAD.

Designed for the Roaring Forties and Ice Strengthened.

This ship has been developed in conjunction with the
Royal Australian Navy to meet the operational requirements
of the region. The ship has been optimised for seakeeping,
endurance and surveillance roles.
Missions and Functional Capabilities
Primary
ËËœ Maritime surveillance, patrol and response tasks
ËËœ Protection of offshore resources and infrastructure
ËËœ EEZ patrol and surveillance
ËËœ Demonstration of national presence
ËËœ Participation in international exercises
Secondary
ËËœ Training
ËËœ Disaster relief including medical and emergency
evacuation of personnel
ËËœ Search and rescue
ËËœ Collection of environmental data
ËËœ Pollution control
80 metre Offshore Patrol Vessel
An 80 metre vessel developed specifically for naval operations and support in the region

Construction
The hull is a shallow draft round bilge form with fine V sections forward.
It incorporates a spray rail forward and a trim wedge aft. The hull and
superstructure are of welded steel construction designed to meet
Classification Society requirements for unrestricted service.
Propulsion
To provide a high degree of flexibility, the main propulsion systems will
comprise a twin shaft arrangement with each shaft being driven by a
medium speed turbo charged marine diesel engine. Slow speed operation
is accomplished using an electric motor connected to each gearbox.
Sea Keeping
The vessel is optimised to provide excellent seakeeping and endurance.
Seakeeping has been extensively tank tested by MARIN of the
Netherlands. The vessel is ideally suited to long, arduous operations in the
ASEAN region.
The ship is designed for unrestricted operations including all weapons,
sensors and other equipment (including intermediate sized helicopter
operations) in Sea State 5 conditions.
80 metre Offshore Patrol Vessel
Main Characteristics
Length (overall) 81.50 metres
Beam 12.05 metres
Draught 3.4 metres
Displacement 1,395 tonnes
Speed 24 knots (operational)
Complement 84
Range 3500 nautical miles
Endurance 21 days
Weapons and Electronic Systems
ËËœ 76mm gun
ËËœ 2 x 25mm gun
ËËœ 4 x 12.7mm machine guns
ËËœ Electronic support measures
ËËœ Helicopter facilities
ËËœ Chaff
ËËœ Surveillance radar
ËËœ Navigation radar
ËËœ Fire control radar
ËËœ Electro optical fire control
Options
ËËœ Surface to air missiles
ËËœ Surface to surface missiles
ËËœ CIWS
ËËœ Surface launched torpedoes
Surveillance and interdiction patrols throughout the
Economic Exclusion Zone.
Tenix Defence Pty Ltd
Level 1, AMA Building
42 Macquarie Street
Barton ACT 2600
Telephone +61 2 6273 4299
Facsimile +61 2 6273 4296
Marine Division
775 Cockburn Road
Henderson WA 6166
Telephone +61 8 9437 0437
Facsimile +61 8 9410 2065


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## Ex-Dragoon (6 Aug 2004)

Sounds like what the navy is looking at.


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## Ex-Dragoon (9 Aug 2004)

From the CASR site. Talks about retaining SH60s if we get them for the OPVs if we get those:

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/mp-seahawk2.htm


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## canuck101 (9 Aug 2004)

the hard part would be getting the government to buy the seahawks that the US navy has.


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## Kirkhill (5 Oct 2005)

Relaunching this thread:

RN River Class OPV has been redesigned for Falklands use - Ice strengthened and Merlin size Heli-deck.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/opvh.htm

Just another option - these vessels are leased and civvy supported but Navy crewed.


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## Monsoon (5 Oct 2005)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Relaunching this thread:
> 
> RN River Class OPV has been redesigned for Falklands use - Ice strengthened and Merlin size Heli-deck.
> 
> ...


Looks like the navy OPVs won't be happening - CMS is keeping his eye on the JSS ball and doesn't want to lose it by considering other "priorities", and the Coast Guard has had funding approved for a project for six Mid-Shore Patrol Vessels and a fewer number of larger fishery patrol vessels.


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## Kirkhill (5 Oct 2005)

> Looks like the navy OPVs won't be happening - CMS is keeping his eye on the JSS ball and doesn't want to lose it by considering other "priorities", and the Coast Guard has had funding approved for a project for six Mid-Shore Patrol Vessels and a fewer number of larger fishery patrol vessels.



As Martha would say:  "It's a good thing!".


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## mjohnston39 (5 Oct 2005)

Recent MERX call for proposals for the Mid Shore Patrol vessels. 

http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.Asp?WCI=Form&WCE=Show&XID=214&State=7

Potential designs:

Damen 4207
Blohm and Voss 130ft (38.9m) Patrol Boat
Construction Mecaniques De Normandie (CMN) Vigilante Br 4

Mike.


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