# British Highlander dies in Aberta while on live fire exercise.



## Cpl.Banks (20 Jun 2005)

Soldier dies in firing exercise  

Dale Cowie died when his Minimi light machine gun went off 
A British soldier has died on a live firing exercise in Canada, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed. 
Dale Cowie, 19, from Buckie, in Moray, was trying to clear a stoppage in his Minimi light machine gun when it went off and killed him. 

The teenager served with the 1st Battalion The Highlanders. 

About 100 Highlanders are part of the Scots Dragoons battlegroup on exercise at the British Army training unit at Suffield near Calgary. 

His commanding officer and other Highlanders based in Germany lowered the regimental flag to half mast in the soldier's memory. 


Thoughts?

Royal Military Police have launched an investigation and an accident investigation team is being sent to Canada. 

A MoD spokesman said: "Safety is of paramount importance on exercises. We don't know how long the investigation will take."


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## JBP (20 Jun 2005)

My lord, my heart goes out to him and his family/friends... That's just a shame, 19 years old...

I can't even imagine, I'd hate to see someone go like that or have myself go that way. Just went through C9+C6 training with the "Theory of Machinegun Fire" etc... Can't imagine how bad this must have been... 

Poor lad. Reminds me of what my Sgt said during our IA+Stoppage training. Always stay behind the gun. Although I suppose we don't know anything yet so I can't conclude to say that, I'm just sorry for the guy and it just reminds me of the training and frightens me abit!

RIP indeed.


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jun 2005)

R031 Pte Joe said:
			
		

> it just reminds me of the training and frightens me abit!



Don't be frightened of it.....be respectful of it, and master it.


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## Baloo (20 Jun 2005)

I was the number two for a .50 Cal during a night shoot in Meaford, when a round went off in the chamber, literally shattering the receiver group and throwing the barrel forward. Startled the h*** out of me, and sent a couple pieces into the kevlar helmet. Made me respect it even more.

My sympathies goes out to the family, and the Highlanders.


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## Britney Spears (20 Jun 2005)

I bet this is some iteration of the old " put the butt into the ground and stomp on the cocking handle" drill.


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## KevinB (20 Jun 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> I bet this is some iteration of the old " put the butt into the ground and stomp on the cocking handle" drill.



YUP

 The "combat cock" method -- which is dumb and extremly unsafer - the USMC's "butt to the deck" method is more effective and safer.


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## Britney Spears (20 Jun 2005)

> the USMC's "butt to the deck" method is more effective and safer.



Elaborate?


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## Da_man (20 Jun 2005)

yeah... i guess this method is "ok" when your using blanks or even dummy rounds. But I would NEVER attempt something like that with live ammo.   Thats just really stupid... you cock it halfway with a round stuck in the chamber, odds are its gonna go off.


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## 1feral1 (21 Jun 2005)

Baloo said:
			
		

> I was the number two for a .50 Cal during a night shoot in Meaford, when a round went off in the chamber, literally shattering the piston and throwing the barrel forward. Startled the h*** out of me, and sent a couple pieces into the kevlar helmet. Made me respect it even more.



Piston? what type of .50 was this?


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## JBP (21 Jun 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Don't be frightened of it.....be respectful of it, and master it.



That's a damn good point, I'll remember that as well... And clean those damn machine guns real good!


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## 1feral1 (21 Jun 2005)

With the Minimi (we use both the standard and the para versions), one time here we had a guy try to clear the stoppage by using his boot on the cocking handle method, which would have put him infront of the muzzle, and could have had the same result. He was immediatly sorted out by his CPL and the range staff quicksmart.

In Australia, the sling around the CH is the preferred method of clearing the stoppage if the CH is jammed.

I am not going to speculate on this recent incident as it is very tragic to say the least, and it will all come out in the wash at the end of the investigation.

Wes


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## CH1 (21 Jun 2005)

Hey Wes

May be some one confoosed .50 M2 & Bren taken out of the cobwebs??   LOL

Either that or the buffer spring with an identity crisis?


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## 1feral1 (21 Jun 2005)

Da_man said:
			
		

> yeah... i guess this method is "ok" when your using blanks or even dummy rounds. But I would NEVER attempt something like that with live ammo.   Thats just really stupid... you cock it halfway with a round stuck in the chamber, odds are its gonna go off.



Blanks of dummy rds? DA, never ever use any unauth methods of clearing a wpn regardless of natures of ammo, no matter what. If in doubt call an NCO to help you out.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Scoobie Newbie (21 Jun 2005)

I'f seen the aformentioned stomp method work, blanks though.   The sling didn't work worth a shit.


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## CH1 (21 Jun 2005)

Yeah but are IA's & Stoppages still drilled into the grey matter like they used to?   Any body on my courses used to hate reciteing & practicing in their sleep.

Cheers


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## Scoobie Newbie (21 Jun 2005)

Prior to going on a range of any kind (I think its 24 hours prior) wpn's handling of all wpns is to be done and refreshed.  I've seen a guy get off for discharging a dummy grenage in his hand because he wasn't given the drills prior to the range.


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## badger4 (21 Jun 2005)

hey sorry guys, i know this is a bit off topic, but how do I start a topic or ask a question - can't figure it out...


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## JBP (21 Jun 2005)

CH1 said:
			
		

> Yeah but are IA's & Stoppages still drilled into the grey matter like they used to?  Any body on my courses used to hate reciteing & practicing in their sleep.
> 
> Cheers



Yeah they still drill it into you pretty damn good. They showed us the sling method only, and advised us to NEVER at any point, no matter what kind of ammo, to use the "stomp" method... Told us if we attempted that on the range they'd 1.) Charge us for a safety violation thingy, 2.) Stomp our guts out, 3.) Probably boot you out of the army if a negligent discharge did happen.

They were very clear on that... Someone mentioned that the sling method might not work as good, so they suggested getting buddy Bloggins to help out. Simple, done.


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## old medic (21 Jun 2005)

badger4 said:
			
		

> this is a bit off topic, but how do I start a topic or ask a question



I think you just asked one. Just add the "?" next time.  ;D
I'll answer you via PM as that is alot off topic.


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## KevinB (21 Jun 2005)

Butt to the deck

Grasp weapon  

 With a rifle / carbine grasp forestock and with the other hand grasp the cocking handle
Now drive it down to the ground (doign this kneeling is easiest - and if you have a stoppage you should not be up drawing fire anyway) the momentum will usually give you enough force to extract the round - or break the cocking handle

Similar idea with LMG/GPMG - except they are usually real fucking hot and heavy - and if you fuck it up - rounds can be let go.
 so carefully (yet with agression) grasp the cocking handle the other hand graps the weapon on the C9 the forstock the C6 - the bipod if its collapsed - if not get gloves its going to be HOT and graps the recvier body where the gas tube enters it).

I know guys who keep a small length of para cord just to yank on the C9/C6's


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## Britney Spears (21 Jun 2005)

I see, so basically the same thing, except you're on your knees, and using a hand instead of a foot.


You better break this down into squads for ease of learning...


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## Infanteer (21 Jun 2005)

Ahh...I see Britney is the guy who always gets the instructor to repeat the demonstration 5 times after the lesson.... :dontpanic:


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## Britney Spears (21 Jun 2005)

Yes, I would also like it demonstrated from another angle if possible, and sorry, but why do we need to know this again? ???

Still took a hatless dance for me to get it straight at the end....... :-[

Ok that's enough, My condolences to the young man's friends and family.


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## Baloo (21 Jun 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Piston? what type of .50 was this?



You are correct Wes, I came back and wondered what I meant. 

The receiver group. Not the 'piston'...  :-[ (At least, I was told thats what it was...could have been the bolt group...someone stop me if I;m talking out of my ass yet...)


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## 48Highlander (21 Jun 2005)

Well I gotta admit I've used the stomp method once or twice.  It's not such a horrible thing...as long as you remember to point the muzzle away from your head, and use it as the LAST RESORT.  The last time I did it was roughly 4 years ago with a C6.  I managed to break off the handle just as the platoon began their assault, so at that point it was either have no C6 supporting fire or use my boot on the tiny piece of cocking handle that was still protruding from the rail.  It wasn't a very difficult decision.


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## KevinB (21 Jun 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> It wasn't a very difficult decision.



 :

Please, now take this coming from me who is about anything but Elmer the Safety Elephant -- Somethings CAN be justified in training - but something CAN ONLY be justified in Combat -- Any deviations for an accepted practise that could easily result in injury or death - skip it for training.

 I've been a Wpn det command and had to tell the Pl Comd - Sorry Sir - its fucking broke.  That is a lot easier to do (and sometimes funny when the CO is watching) than doing slow march with a casket - or filling out Witness staements to validate a CF98


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## 48Highlander (21 Jun 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> :
> 
> Please, now take this coming from me who is about anything but Elmer the Safety Elephant -- Somethings CAN be justified in training - but something CAN ONLY be justified in Combat -- Any deviations for an accepted practise that could easily result in injury or death - skip it for training.
> 
> I've been a Wpn det command and had to tell the Pl Comd - Sorry Sir - its fucking broke.   That is a lot easier to do (and sometimes funny when the CO is watching) than doing slow march with a casket - or filling out Witness staements to validate a CF98




I understand, and agree.  I would never in training attempt something that I wasn't sure was safe.  At the time we were using blanks, so there wasn't much that could go wrong.  Even with live rounds...like I said, as long as you keep a firm grip of the barrel and keep it pointed in a safe direction, it can be done safely, however, I'd hate to give the safety staff a heart-attack, and there's always the slight possibility that I'll slip and blow someones head off, so I wouldn't be pulling it on a live-fire.

Ofcourse, then you get the argument that you should treat blank rounds the way you'd treat live rounds.  Well, should I treat them the way I'd treat live rounds in training....or the way I'd treat live rounds in combat?   nobody ever specifies that.  In any event, I do what I feel is safe and reasonable...if anyone has a problem with it, well they can "voice their opinion" later.


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## Ammogod (21 Jun 2005)

Ofcourse, then you get the argument that you should treat blank rounds the way you'd treat live rounds.  Well, should I treat them the way I'd treat live rounds in training....or the way I'd treat live rounds in combat?   nobody ever specifies that.  In any event, I do what I feel is safe and reasonable...if anyone has a problem with it, well they can "voice their opinion" later.

Bud some Ammo Tech is going to be filling out a CF 410 on you some day.

"You Train for combat" Treat BLANKS as you would BALL

Follow your drills, Thats why we have drills.


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## Northern Touch (21 Jun 2005)

You know, isn't there a possibility that it wasn't the stomp method?

He might have opened the feed tray to inspect and then had a round cook off that way.


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## KevinB (21 Jun 2005)

Apparenty it was the Safety NCO.  Did his last 17 months in Northern Ireland

 I was talking to a few people about the incident - there seem to be a lot of confusion as to how it happened.

NT - 5.56mm open breach cook off would be hard pressed to kill - lose eyesight - sure if your close to it.  Apparently the NCO was struck by a round.  I am ending my comments until more info comes out


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## Pearson (21 Jun 2005)

As i recall there was a Mcpl who used the "stomp" on a C9 during a live fire defensive ex in Wainwright I'd wanna to say summer of '89, the result, AD with self inflicted. Blew the Canada flag off his sleeve from the bullet passing through the armpit from below. I can only imagine the look on the private's face when the Mcpl grabbed the weapon and stomped it. Point to note, weapons conversion had taken place in '87. Mcpl was no doubt reacted instinctivly for a C2, wrong move for a C9 or C6.

I was a just down the line in the turret of a grizzly.

No Duff extraordinarie

Prayers to the young mans family


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## Dissident (21 Jun 2005)

RIP troop


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## old medic (21 Jun 2005)

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=676442005

Suspect gun kills second soldier

JOHN INNES

MILITARY investigators have flown to Canada to investigate the death of a Scots soldier killed by his own machine gun, the Ministry of Defence confirmed yesterday.

Dale Cowie, 19, died while on a training exercise near Calgary, during which it was claimed that the Minimi weapon went off in his hands. Last night the MoD refused to rule out that the weapon - and not human error - had been to blame.

Private Cowie's death comes 17 months after Andrew Craw, 21, of the 1st Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, was killed in a similar Minimi gun tragedy. He died as he tried to fix his jammed gun on a training ground in Basra, Iraq.

An MoD spokesman said: "Private Dale had recently been sent to a training camp near Calgary, to prepare for duties in Iraq, where the accident happened. We understand he had been trying to clear a blockage in his Minimi light machine gun when it killed him. His family were given the news on Friday afternoon. At this point , we won't speculate on how this incident came about, but we will be examining the weapon.

"These guns are in widespread use across the armed forces and we are confident of their performance and suitability; there is no question of withdrawing the weapons."

Last night, Pte Cowie's family paid tribute to the teenager, from Buckie, Banffshire, who had joined the army to make a better life for himself. His brother George, 26, said: "It's so sad that it's all ended this way. Dale loved the army. It was a huge step for him to leave everyone behind, but he was really worried about his future and he was determined to make something of himself.

"He saw so many people getting involved in drugs and was fed up working in fish factories, so knew he had to get out. I'll always be proud of him."

Pte Cowie, who was single, left school three years ago and drifted in and out of jobs in the fishing town where he was brought up and had become concerned about what the future held for him until he saw an advert for the army.

He joined up with 1st Battalion The Highlanders a year ago with the full support of his parents Wilma, 43, and Kenneth, 41, who are separated. Pte Cowie went on his first tour of duty to Catterick and was later posted to Germany, on what was his first trip abroad. His brother added: "I spoke to my brother a few days ago and he was full of life and really enjoying Canada. He couldn't believe his luck at being sent there."

Pte Cowie's family are working with the MoD to get his body sent back home. His army colleagues are planning a full military funeral. The regimental flag was last night flying at half mast at the Highlanders' Falling-bostel depot in Germany to pay tribute to the young soldier.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4106638.stm

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005280180,00.html

Both links contain photos of Private Cowie.


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## old medic (21 Jun 2005)

MOD statement :  http://news.mod.uk/news_headline_story.asp?newsItem_id=3299

The Ministry of Defence very much regrets to confirm the death of Highlander Dale Cowie, aged 19, of the 1st Battalion The Highlanders, during a battlegroup live-firing exercise at the British Army's training area at Suffield in Canada on the night of 16/17 June 2005.

Hldr Cowie died while taking part in a large armoured exercise on the prairie near Suffield in Canada.  His Company (D Coy of The Highlanders) was attached to The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards for the exercise. 

Military Police are carrying out a detailed investigation into the circumstances surrounding Hldr Cowie's death.  At this stage it appears the soldier's own weapon discharged by accident.  Everyone across the Army is saddened at the news of this tragedy and our thoughts are with Hldr Cowie's family.

Dale Wood Cowie was one of five brothers and two sisters, all of whom live in Buckie in Morayshire, Scotland.  His parents, who also live in Buckie, were informed of their son's tragic death this morning.

Dale attended Buckie High School.  After a period working in a fish processing factory he was persuaded by his cousin (Hldr Ben Moore, who also serves with The Highlanders) that The Highlanders would offer a more challenging and worthwhile career.

Dale joined the army in April 2004.  He enjoyed his Basic Training in Catterick, Yorkshire and was delighted to be posted to The Highlanders in Germany, joining his cousin and several old friends from Buckie, in November 2004.

Since arriving in Germany, Hldr Cowie had served with D Company, a rifle Coy of The Highlanders, training extensively as a rifleman and becoming an expert on the Warrior Armoured Fighting Vehicle and other weapon systems. 

Hldr Cowie showed great promise during his career in The Highlanders, and was liked and respected by all the officers and soldiers of the Regiment.  Despite his young age and short length of time in the Army, his potential had been clearly identified.

When not training Hldr Cowie enjoyed football, and was keen to work his way into the Highlanders team.  A popular soldier, he spent much of his free time socialising with friends and keeping himself fit.

Commanding Officer of The 1st Battalion The Highlanders, Lt Col James Hopkinson OBE, gathered together those of the Battalion not in Canada and informed them of the tragedy.  The Regimental Flag was lowered, and still flies at half-mast in respect and memory of Hldr Cowie. 

Lt Col Hopkinson has since released the following statement:

    "It is with deep regret that I have to report the tragic death of Highlander Dale Cowie (D Coy 1 HLDRS).  His death occurred during a routine training exercise in Canada (BATUS).  Our thoughts and sympathies are with his family and friends.  He shall be sorely missed by all of us in the Battalion."

First Cousin of Hldr Cowie, Hldr Ben Moore was told the news separately and, in a short statement, said:

    "Dale will be missed by me, his family, all the soldiers of The Highlanders and by the whole of Buckie."


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## George Wallace (21 Jun 2005)

I haven't been following this thread too closely, but this statement brought back some memories: 





> Private Cowie's death comes 17 months after Andrew Craw, 21, of the 1st Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, was killed in a similar Minimi gun tragedy. He died as he tried to fix his jammed gun on a training ground in Basra, Iraq.



Recceguy, do you remember when this happened to me back in 94?

Anyone else run in to similar problems?  Prolonged firing, jams and cook offs?

GW


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## Kat Stevens (21 Jun 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> I understand, and agree.  I would never in training attempt something that I wasn't sure was safe.  At the time we were using blanks, so there wasn't much that could go wrong.  Even with live rounds...like I said, as long as you keep a firm grip of the barrel and keep it pointed in a safe direction, it can be done safely, however, I'd hate to give the safety staff a heart-attack, and there's always the slight possibility that I'll slip and blow someones head off, so I wouldn't be pulling it on a live-fire.
> 
> Ofcourse, then you get the argument that you should treat blank rounds the way you'd treat live rounds.  Well, should I treat them the way I'd treat live rounds in training....or the way I'd treat live rounds in combat?   nobody ever specifies that.  In any event, I do what I feel is safe and reasonable...if anyone has a problem with it, well they can "voice their opinion" later.


If you wouldn't do it with blank, drill or any other non-lethal thing in the breach, why do it at all? Train as you fight.  I was an Engineer for a little while, and we treated chunks of plasticine EXACTLY as chunks of C4... Same, same...
  The sling works fine if you sit back and brace one foot against the butt.... and slamming the butt works well too, muzzle downrange, o'course...

Kat


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## squealiox (21 Jun 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Anyone else run in to similar problems?   Prolonged firing, jams and cook offs?
> 
> GW


i had an extracted round cook off right in front of me once, just after i had cleared a stoppage on the C9.
i didn't suffer a scratch and wasn't too bothered by it at the time, but it didn't seem like a very healthy thing. i don't seem to recall there was anything in the IAs at the time about pausing to let the round cook off before clearing a stoppage. has this changed? (this was 15 years ago)


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## Acorn (22 Jun 2005)

George, I had a half-fed .50 round cook off once. It was a stoppage, my #2 was just reaching up to the cover to start the 1st IA, and "bang." Cover flew open and extractor busted. Turns out the previous round split at the base, leaving part of the casing in the breech. There was enough heat (we'd been firing for a while) for the following round to cook off. No injuries, and the gun was OK after a replaced barrel and extractor. 

Acorn


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## GO!!! (22 Jun 2005)

GW,

No, there is not (just checked the Pam on my thumb drive) the theory seems to be that if one is doing the requisite barrel changes, the chamber will generate insufficient heat to cook off a round. In addition to this, as the C9 is an open breech weapon, if it is functioning properly, the round will never be in the chamber for more than a fraction of a second, barring a broken/fouled extractor.

In my limited experience, most stoppages requiring the sling/stomp method are related to weak rebound springs, or link/brass behind the bolt carrier on the bottom of the weapon.

RIP soldier


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Jun 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I haven't been following this thread too closely, but this statement brought back some memories:
> Recceguy, do you remember when this happened to me back in 94?
> 
> Anyone else run in to similar problems?   Prolonged firing, jams and cook offs?
> ...



Yeah I do George, and I still catch myself sitting alone and giggling as I visualize the lopsidedgrin on your half blackened face. Holding up nothing but the handle of the screwdriver, totally oblivious to the paniced goings on around you


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## dragnet157 (27 Jun 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Blanks of dummy rds? DA, never ever use any unauth methods of clearing a wpn regardless of natures of ammo, no matter what. If in doubt call an NCO to help you out.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wes



Amen... All training regardless for war or peace time *MUST* be the same.  When I did my 3's in the PPCLI Battle School (*NOT THE WESTERN AREA TRAINING CENTER*!)we were reminded that "Train hard now.  Peace is were you have the time to master your skills because when there's a war on your time is up."  Chances are is he opened the feed tray and attempted to cock the weapon.  Sometimes a live round will be logged in the chamber of the weapon and if the cocking handle is realeased the action will go forward. This will cause a catastrophic explosion in the chamber resulting in death.  As for the idea of doing the "Charleston Stomp" to correct the stoppage I'm almost certain that the safety staff behind him would have stomped his head in for attempting that dance move.  No matter what a infantryman is dead and nothing will bring him back.  Remember that's our job.  It's incredibly dangerous and unfortunately dying is in the job description.  Rest hard brother.


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## 48Highlander (27 Jun 2005)

dragnet157 said:
			
		

> Chances are is he opened the feed tray and attempted to cock the weapon.   Sometimes a live round will be logged in the chamber of the weapon and if the cocking handle is realeased the action will go forward. This will cause a catastrophic explosion in the chamber resulting in death.



Eh....you sure about that?   I seem to remember there being something in the "safety features" of the C9 that stated something like "the weapon will not fire unless the bolt is fully locked inside the chamber"    So, if you were to lodge a round in the chamber, and then squeeze the trigger with the tray open, all that should happen is that the bolt will enter the chamber, rotate and lock while simultaneously seating the round on the bolt face, and once locked the firing pin would protrude through the bolt face, striking the primer.   Since the bolt is already locked at this point, the weapon would fire as normal, without any "catastrophic explosions".

Even assuming a round were to go off inside the body of your C9, the casing for a 5.56mm NATO round does not hold very much explosive material.   If you're really unlucky it might put out an eye.


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## GO!!! (27 Jun 2005)

I'll agree with 48th - for once. 

The C9 firing pin cannot engage the primer unless the bolt is seated and locked. If this happens with the feed tray open, the feed pawls won't work, and you'll probably get some really hot oil in yer face. And of course, it probably would'nt happen at all if the drills were done right.

Besides, I watched a .50 round blow off in the body - the wpns tech thought it might have been a slow burning round, the round went down the barrel, and the feed tray blew up, but not off. Gunner reloaded and continued firing.


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## Lenna (29 Jun 2005)

I was just sat on here, searching through the net to try and find more news on Dale's death.  I personally knew him and many of his friends, although we didn't get on as well as I wish we did not, I will certainly miss him.  I remember when I first went to the primary school "Milbank" with the teacher Mrs. Cowie.  Dale was small one of the smallest in our class, with glasses.  He was always the typical joker of the class.  What surprised me the most though, is his disliking to blood.  He used to faint at the very sight of it!  

When we hit high school he'd grown up so much, he left as soon as the middle of 5th year, when both mine and his class were joined together, as he wasn't that keen on school, but he was very much loved in Mr. Savory's class.  

I only actually found out about this incident yesterday (Monday) the day of his funeral from my mother and I was extremely saddened by it.  Many are.  Buckie is a very small town but Dale will always remain in our hearts.  

I just feel really guilty that I didn't get to know him more, and that I didn't even get to pay my respects.  He may not have been the closest friend to me but I will miss the fact I'll never get to see him around the town anymore or even get to try and make a proper friendship with him.  

R.I.P Dale.  Will miss you so much.

Tiffie x x


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