# RE: TIME OUT CARDS



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:52:28 -0700*
check with WATC before you go out too far on a limb.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Michael O‘Leary [SMTP:moleary@bmts.com]
> Sent:Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:44 AM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:TIME OUT CARDS
> 
> These Time Out Cards are an urban myth. At least until someone can
> validate
> with first hand knowledge of their use, and I‘m still waiting for that.
> They are not used for either Reserve of Regular Force QL2 or 3 training in
> the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. Nor are candidates
> arriving from the Recruit Scholl asking for them, which I am sure they
> would be if they were used to having and using them there. Having just
> spent a year as the QL3 training company second-in-command, I think I can
> verify that this remains only a myth.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> At 09:01 AM 3/15/00 -0600, you wrote:
> >Someone already mentioned this, but "time out" cards for troops in the
> infantry
> >Battle Schools? I hope someone explains this time out system to any enemy
> these
> >"soldiers" might encounter someday.
> >
> >Carl
> 
> 
> 
> Michael O‘Leary
> 
> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
> 
> Leadership is the practical application of character. - Colonel R.
> Meinertzhagen, CBE, DSO, Army Diary, 1899-1926, 1960
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Michael O‘Leary" <moleary@bmts.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:05:47 -0500*
Can you confirm what courses are using them there?
At 11:52 AM 3/15/00 -0700, you wrote:
>check with WATC before you go out too far on a limb.....
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:Michael O‘Leary [SMTP:moleary@bmts.com]
>> Sent:Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:44 AM
>> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> Subject:TIME OUT CARDS
>> 
>> These Time Out Cards are an urban myth. At least until someone can
>> validate
>> with first hand knowledge of their use, and I‘m still waiting for that.
>> They are not used for either Reserve of Regular Force QL2 or 3 training in
>> the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. Nor are candidates
>> arriving from the Recruit Scholl asking for them, which I am sure they
>> would be if they were used to having and using them there. Having just
>> spent a year as the QL3 training company second-in-command, I think I can
>> verify that this remains only a myth.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> At 09:01 AM 3/15/00 -0600, you wrote:
>> >Someone already mentioned this, but "time out" cards for troops in the
>> infantry
>> >Battle Schools? I hope someone explains this time out system to any enemy
>> these
>> >"soldiers" might encounter someday.
>> >
>> >Carl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Michael O‘Leary
>> 
>> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
>> 
>> Leadership is the practical application of character. - Colonel R.
>> Meinertzhagen, CBE, DSO, Army Diary, 1899-1926, 1960
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> message body.
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Michael O‘Leary
Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
Leadership is the practical application of character. - Colonel R.
Meinertzhagen, CBE, DSO, Army Diary, 1899-1926, 1960
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:13:53 -0700*
my understanding was the QL2/3 in WX and Shilo
I‘ll ask my mates that taught there and let you know...
How are you coming with Tacops
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Michael O‘Leary [SMTP:moleary@bmts.com]
> Sent:Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:06 PM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:RE: TIME OUT CARDS
> 
> Can you confirm what courses are using them there?
> 
> At 11:52 AM 3/15/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >check with WATC before you go out too far on a limb.....
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:Michael O‘Leary [SMTP:moleary@bmts.com]
> >> Sent:Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:44 AM
> >> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> Subject:TIME OUT CARDS
> >> 
> >> These Time Out Cards are an urban myth. At least until someone can
> >> validate
> >> with first hand knowledge of their use, and I‘m still waiting for that.
> >> They are not used for either Reserve of Regular Force QL2 or 3 training
> in
> >> the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. Nor are candidates
> >> arriving from the Recruit Scholl asking for them, which I am sure they
> >> would be if they were used to having and using them there. Having just
> >> spent a year as the QL3 training company second-in-command, I think I
> can
> >> verify that this remains only a myth.
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> 
> >> At 09:01 AM 3/15/00 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >Someone already mentioned this, but "time out" cards for troops in the
> >> infantry
> >> >Battle Schools? I hope someone explains this time out system to any
> enemy
> >> these
> >> >"soldiers" might encounter someday.
> >> >
> >> >Carl
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Michael O‘Leary
> >> 
> >> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
> >>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
> >> 
> >> Leadership is the practical application of character. - Colonel R.
> >> Meinertzhagen, CBE, DSO, Army Diary, 1899-1926, 1960
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> message body.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Michael O‘Leary
> 
> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
> 
> Leadership is the practical application of character. - Colonel R.
> Meinertzhagen, CBE, DSO, Army Diary, 1899-1926, 1960
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:13:16 -0400*
I‘ve only heard about time out cards once when it comes to the Canadian
Armed Forces and I was pretty sure it was BS when I heard it.  As far as
the US military goes, thats where I first heard about time out cards.
Actually it was the CNN web site where I first heard of it, about 3 years
ago at least.  If I can remember correctly all candidates on basic training
were given a card to pull out when they thought the training was too hard.
After showing this card they were given a 30 minute time out.  This product
of the Clinton administration is obviously a huge threat to the combat
readiness of an armed force, but I‘m pretty sure that an soldier that isn‘t
up to standards will get "sorted out" when they get to they‘re unit.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Carl DINSDALE <joscol@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:17:59 -0600*
Thank you for clearing that up, I heard it from a serving member of the mortar
platoon with 1 RCR last fall and just about tripped over my jaw. I knew
standards had changed, but am glad not to that degree.
Pro Patria
Carl
Michael O‘Leary wrote:
> These Time Out Cards are an urban myth. At least until someone can validate
> with first hand knowledge of their use, and I‘m still waiting for that.
> They are not used for either Reserve of Regular Force QL2 or 3 training in
> the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. Nor are candidates
> arriving from the Recruit Scholl asking for them, which I am sure they
> would be if they were used to having and using them there. Having just
> spent a year as the QL3 training company second-in-command, I think I can
> verify that this remains only a myth.
>
> Mike
>
> At 09:01 AM 3/15/00 -0600, you wrote:
> >Someone already mentioned this, but "time out" cards for troops in the
> infantry
> >Battle Schools? I hope someone explains this time out system to any enemy
> these
> >"soldiers" might encounter someday.
> >
> >Carl
>
> Michael O‘Leary
>
> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
>
> Leadership is the practical application of character. - Colonel R.
> Meinertzhagen, CBE, DSO, Army Diary, 1899-1926, 1960
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Michael O‘Leary" <moleary@bmts.com>* on *Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:44:29 -0400*
I can assure you that they are not in use for Regular or Reserve Force
training at the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. At least
they weren‘t today while I was at work.
Nor have recruits been arriving from the Recruit School in St. Jean asking
for them. I expect they would if they had becomed accustomed to using them.
My regards to Maj Hand, but I am still waiting for a single first hand
report. with names, dates, course, unit, etc. Until then I will continue
to consider Time-Out cards an urban legend.
Mike
At 01:03 PM 4/10/00 -0300, you wrote:
>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion has
>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last Friday
>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not present
>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I think
>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from my
>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. where
>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry units
>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there and
>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or further
>information on this?
Michael O‘Leary
Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Elizabeth Fredette" <a4688@kelcom.igs.net>* on *Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:07:10 -0400*
Time out cards? What ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "ghallman" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 12:03 PM
Subject: Time Out Cards
> I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion has
> been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
> today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last
Friday
> my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not present
> because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I think
> OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
> He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
> information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from my
> Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
> students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. where
> there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry units
> are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there and
> Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or
further
> information on this?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ted Underhill and Heidi Schmidt <edward@IslandNet.com>* on *Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:41:13 -0700*
I too heard rumours over the years beginning in 96 and then 97/98 at WATC
Shilo.  Never saw them used at Shilo.  Last year I was in Wainwright and
time out cards were not used.  If there is any substance to the rumour, it
may be that it was once considered at CFRS St Jean but discarded.  I
think people ‘heard‘ that they were being used there and it has ballooned
into near urban myth proportions.
Cheers, Ted Underhill
At 05:44 PM 4/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>I can assure you that they are not in use for Regular or Reserve Force
>training at the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. At least
>they weren‘t today while I was at work.
>
>Nor have recruits been arriving from the Recruit School in St. Jean asking
>for them. I expect they would if they had becomed accustomed to using them.
>
>My regards to Maj Hand, but I am still waiting for a single first hand
>report. with names, dates, course, unit, etc. Until then I will continue
>to consider Time-Out cards an urban legend.
>
>Mike
>
>
>At 01:03 PM 4/10/00 -0300, you wrote:
>>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion has
>>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
>>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last Friday
>>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not present
>>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I think
>>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
>>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
>>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from my
>>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
>>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. where
>>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry units
>>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there and
>>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or further
>>information on this?
>
>
>
>Michael O‘Leary
>
>Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
>
>Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
>improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
>leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
>end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
>
>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Steve Kuervers" <skuervers@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:30:58 PDT*
Interesting... St.Jean sur Richeleau is the small city outside of Montreal 
where the Regular Force recruit school is.  A friend of mine who went 
through the Language School in St.Jean with me went back last summer as a 
Course Officer and tells me that the cards are an urban myth.
I give this Capt a lot of credibility, and he WAS there.
Ah well... my outlook.
Steve
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Time Out Cards
>Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:03:10 -0300
>
>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion has
>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last Friday
>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not present
>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I think
>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from my
>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. where
>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry units
>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there and
>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or further
>information on this?
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Trevor Smith <mseop@dlcwest.com>* on *Tue, 11 Apr 2000 08:35:33 -0600*
Time out cards to my understanding have been used in WATC Wainwright.  However
some instructors have taken that one step further and implemented their own
version of these cards.  They are known as "Carry on Cards".  These cards are to
trump any time out give by a student who feels in anyway harassed.  In my opinion
these individuals the ones with the time out cards need to take a moment to
remember it is the military they joined and there is always going to be a bit of
intimidation.  Not that it is right or wrong but a fact none the less.
Ted Underhill and Heidi Schmidt wrote:
> I too heard rumours over the years beginning in 96 and then 97/98 at WATC
> Shilo.  Never saw them used at Shilo.  Last year I was in Wainwright and
> time out cards were not used.  If there is any substance to the rumour, it
> may be that it was once considered at CFRS St Jean but discarded.  I
> think people ‘heard‘ that they were being used there and it has ballooned
> into near urban myth proportions.
>
> Cheers, Ted Underhill
>
> At 05:44 PM 4/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> >I can assure you that they are not in use for Regular or Reserve Force
> >training at the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. At least
> >they weren‘t today while I was at work.
> >
> >Nor have recruits been arriving from the Recruit School in St. Jean asking
> >for them. I expect they would if they had becomed accustomed to using them.
> >
> >My regards to Maj Hand, but I am still waiting for a single first hand
> >report. with names, dates, course, unit, etc. Until then I will continue
> >to consider Time-Out cards an urban legend.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >At 01:03 PM 4/10/00 -0300, you wrote:
> >>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion has
> >>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
> >>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last Friday
> >>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not present
> >>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I think
> >>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
> >>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
> >>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from my
> >>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
> >>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. where
> >>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry units
> >>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there and
> >>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or further
> >>information on this?
> >
> >
> >
> >Michael O‘Leary
> >
> >Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
> >http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
> >
> >Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
> >improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
> >leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
> >end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Chrid Loveridge" <cloveridge@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Tue, 11 Apr 2000 14:50:36 EDT*
Are these the same "red cards", that where used At LFCA TC Meaford AKA RCR 
BSL, during the summer of 1998.  I had heard rumours of it, but when tasked 
to the Armd Trg Sqn, last summer I couldn‘t get a confirmation.
>From: Trevor Smith 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: Time Out Cards
>Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 08:35:33 -0600
>
>Time out cards to my understanding have been used in WATC Wainwright.  
>However
>some instructors have taken that one step further and implemented their own
>version of these cards.  They are known as "Carry on Cards".  These cards 
>are to
>trump any time out give by a student who feels in anyway harassed.  In my 
>opinion
>these individuals the ones with the time out cards need to take a moment 
>to
>remember it is the military they joined and there is always going to be a 
>bit of
>intimidation.  Not that it is right or wrong but a fact none the less.
>
>Ted Underhill and Heidi Schmidt wrote:
>
> > I too heard rumours over the years beginning in 96 and then 97/98 at 
>WATC
> > Shilo.  Never saw them used at Shilo.  Last year I was in Wainwright and
> > time out cards were not used.  If there is any substance to the rumour, 
>it
> > may be that it was once considered at CFRS St Jean but discarded.  I
> > think people ‘heard‘ that they were being used there and it has 
>ballooned
> > into near urban myth proportions.
> >
> > Cheers, Ted Underhill
> >
> > At 05:44 PM 4/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> > >I can assure you that they are not in use for Regular or Reserve Force
> > >training at the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. At 
>least
> > >they weren‘t today while I was at work.
> > >
> > >Nor have recruits been arriving from the Recruit School in St. Jean 
>asking
> > >for them. I expect they would if they had becomed accustomed to using 
>them.
> > >
> > >My regards to Maj Hand, but I am still waiting for a single first hand
> > >report. with names, dates, course, unit, etc. Until then I will 
>continue
> > >to consider Time-Out cards an urban legend.
> > >
> > >Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >At 01:03 PM 4/10/00 -0300, you wrote:
> > >>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion 
>has
> > >>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
> > >>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last 
>Friday
> > >>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not 
>present
> > >>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I 
>think
> > >>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
> > >>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
> > >>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from 
>my
> > >>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
> > >>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. 
>where
> > >>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry 
>units
> > >>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there 
>and
> > >>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or 
>further
> > >>information on this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Michael O‘Leary
> > >
> > >Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
> > >http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
> > >
> > >Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
> > >improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An 
>ineffective
> > >leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
> > >end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > >message body.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Michael O‘Leary" <moleary@bmts.com>* on *Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:25:02 -0400*
I have been posted to the staff of LFCA TC Meaford since 1996. There has
not been any form of a time-out card issued here during my posting.
Mike
At 02:50 PM 4/11/00 EDT, you wrote:
>Are these the same "red cards", that where used At LFCA TC Meaford AKA RCR 
>BSL, during the summer of 1998.  I had heard rumours of it, but when tasked 
>to the Armd Trg Sqn, last summer I couldn‘t get a confirmation.
>
>>From: Trevor Smith 
>>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Subject: Re: Time Out Cards
>>Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 08:35:33 -0600
>>
>>Time out cards to my understanding have been used in WATC Wainwright.  
>>However
>>some instructors have taken that one step further and implemented their own
>>version of these cards.  They are known as "Carry on Cards".  These cards 
>>are to
>>trump any time out give by a student who feels in anyway harassed.  In my 
>>opinion
>>these individuals the ones with the time out cards need to take a moment 
>>to
>>remember it is the military they joined and there is always going to be a 
>>bit of
>>intimidation.  Not that it is right or wrong but a fact none the less.
>>
>>Ted Underhill and Heidi Schmidt wrote:
>>
>> > I too heard rumours over the years beginning in 96 and then 97/98 at 
>>WATC
>> > Shilo.  Never saw them used at Shilo.  Last year I was in Wainwright and
>> > time out cards were not used.  If there is any substance to the rumour, 
>>it
>> > may be that it was once considered at CFRS St Jean but discarded.  I
>> > think people ‘heard‘ that they were being used there and it has 
>>ballooned
>> > into near urban myth proportions.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Ted Underhill
>> >
>> > At 05:44 PM 4/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>> > >I can assure you that they are not in use for Regular or Reserve Force
>> > >training at the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. At 
>>least
>> > >they weren‘t today while I was at work.
>> > >
>> > >Nor have recruits been arriving from the Recruit School in St. Jean 
>>asking
>> > >for them. I expect they would if they had becomed accustomed to using 
>>them.
>> > >
>> > >My regards to Maj Hand, but I am still waiting for a single first hand
>> > >report. with names, dates, course, unit, etc. Until then I will 
>>continue
>> > >to consider Time-Out cards an urban legend.
>> > >
>> > >Mike
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >At 01:03 PM 4/10/00 -0300, you wrote:
>> > >>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion 
>>has
>> > >>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
>> > >>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last 
>>Friday
>> > >>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not 
>>present
>> > >>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I 
>>think
>> > >>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
>> > >>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
>> > >>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from 
>>my
>> > >>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
>> > >>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B. 
>>where
>> > >>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry 
>>units
>> > >>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there 
>>and
>> > >>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or 
>>further
>> > >>information on this?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Michael O‘Leary
>> > >
>> > >Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>> > >http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
>> > >
>> > >Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
>> > >improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An 
>>ineffective
>> > >leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
>> > >end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
>> > >--------------------------------------------------------
>> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> > >message body.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------
>> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> > message body.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
>
Michael O‘Leary
Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
--------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Trevor Smith <mseop@dlcwest.com>* on *Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:52:06 -0600*
Unfortuntely i have never been to or heard of the cards in Meafrod so i can‘t
give you that info.  Sorry
Chrid Loveridge wrote:
> Are these the same "red cards", that where used At LFCA TC Meaford AKA RCR
> BSL, during the summer of 1998.  I had heard rumours of it, but when tasked
> to the Armd Trg Sqn, last summer I couldn‘t get a confirmation.
>
> >From: Trevor Smith 
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >Subject: Re: Time Out Cards
> >Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 08:35:33 -0600
> >
> >Time out cards to my understanding have been used in WATC Wainwright.
> >However
> >some instructors have taken that one step further and implemented their own
> >version of these cards.  They are known as "Carry on Cards".  These cards
> >are to
> >trump any time out give by a student who feels in anyway harassed.  In my
> >opinion
> >these individuals the ones with the time out cards need to take a moment
> >to
> >remember it is the military they joined and there is always going to be a
> >bit of
> >intimidation.  Not that it is right or wrong but a fact none the less.
> >
> >Ted Underhill and Heidi Schmidt wrote:
> >
> > > I too heard rumours over the years beginning in 96 and then 97/98 at
> >WATC
> > > Shilo.  Never saw them used at Shilo.  Last year I was in Wainwright and
> > > time out cards were not used.  If there is any substance to the rumour,
> >it
> > > may be that it was once considered at CFRS St Jean but discarded.  I
> > > think people ‘heard‘ that they were being used there and it has
> >ballooned
> > > into near urban myth proportions.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Ted Underhill
> > >
> > > At 05:44 PM 4/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >I can assure you that they are not in use for Regular or Reserve Force
> > > >training at the Land Force Central Area Training Centre Meaford. At
> >least
> > > >they weren‘t today while I was at work.
> > > >
> > > >Nor have recruits been arriving from the Recruit School in St. Jean
> >asking
> > > >for them. I expect they would if they had becomed accustomed to using
> >them.
> > > >
> > > >My regards to Maj Hand, but I am still waiting for a single first hand
> > > >report. with names, dates, course, unit, etc. Until then I will
> >continue
> > > >to consider Time-Out cards an urban legend.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >At 01:03 PM 4/10/00 -0300, you wrote:
> > > >>I know that this topic has been discussed and the general conclusion
> >has
> > > >>been that Time Out Cards are not used in the Canadian Armed Forces but
> > > >>today I heard from a reliable source that they are being used.  Last
> >Friday
> > > >>my History of Warfare class at UNB had a guest speaker.  I was not
> >present
> > > >>because I was sleeping.  The guest speaker was Major Chris Hand I
> >think
> > > >>OC of Kilo Coy 2RCR.
> > > >>He mentioned to the class that time out cards were being used.  This
> > > >>information is not directly from him since I wasn‘t there but its from
> >my
> > > >>Prof. and other students so I think its believable.  One of my fellow
> > > >>students mentioned Saint John but this could either be St. John N.B.
> >where
> > > >>there are several militia units I can assure you that no infantry
> >units
> > > >>are using them in Saint John since the other half of my Coy is there
> >and
> > > >>Naval Reserve units, or this could be ST. Jean Que.  Any comment or
> >further
> > > >>information on this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Michael O‘Leary
> > > >
> > > >Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
> > > >http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
> > > >
> > > >Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
> > > >improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An
> >ineffective
> > > >leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
> > > >end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
> > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > >message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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