# Combat Engineer or Infantry



## mellow_minded

Hey guys,

I enlisted for the 3 Field Engineer ( reserves )   but due to a minor surgery my application has been put on hold, and I'm now told that I will have to do some of my testing again.   However that's beyond the point... I am seriously thinking of joining the Reg forces...   The only decision I'm having difficulty making is wether i want to join as a Combat Engineer or Infintry.   I saw some postings on here regarding the diffrences... but it was mostly stuff for the reserves.   I'm wondering if anyone could shed some light on either one of those professions so that I can finally make the right decisions.   I like to make decisions on facts not on what I suppose, so i would trust your experience can help me make that decision.   Thank you for your time.


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## 1feral1

Ah yes the good ole Infantry ;D

I thought the role for Inf and Engr was the same for both full and part time soldats? Am I wrong?

Wes


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## mellow_minded

I was not meaning that the role was diffrent... Training full time and part time is diffrent... and therefore there is a diffrence... at least i would think there is.


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## Quiet Riot

Well if I had a choice I'd go engineer but my views are probably biased being a sapper in the militia.   It all depends what you want to do, maybe post some more specific questions about the trades.   And both reserve and reg force do the same thing it just takes longer to get formally trained in everything while in the reserves but you get alot of OJT in the militia.
Here are the DND sites for the two trades:
Engineer: http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/career/tradeinfo_e.aspx?id=141
Infantry: http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/career/tradeinfo_e.aspx?id=1031


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## mellow_minded

Well I would definitely like to be on the frontlines.   If you could tell me what kind of tasks you perform as a combat engineer and if you know the answers for Infintry as well.  I know it's on the DND website but I checked out some other sites and saw some Combat Eng.  pretty much being firefighters.  So i'm sure not all is being said about the work that you do.   Also... can you tell me why they changed your tittle from Field Engineer to Combat Engineer?  I was told it's because they plan on using you more in combat and are striving to make Eng.  more combat efficient.???   Can you shed some light on the topic for me.


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## Quiet Riot

Well the name change doesn't really change what we do.   The text book engineer role goes something like this: Help friendly forces live, move and fight on the battlefield, and deny the same abilities to enemy troops. Basically build bridges, build or repair roads, or destroy obstacles hindering the movement of friendlies.   Then on the flip side, destroying bridges, cratering roads or airfields and building different obstacles to piss the enemy off.   Also, engineers do alot of demining and building of defences.   Don't really know about the firefighting, I guess any soldier could be called upon to do it.   Can't really comment on what infantry do as well as some of the other posters on here, so I'll leave it to them.


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## Michael Shannon

Although I'm an infantryman I'd say that the engineers are a better way to go for a reg NCM. Having lost mortars and assault pioneers the chance to do interesting things has gone down a bit in the infantry. I believe the engineers still have combat divers, a full suite of armoured vehicles and of course explosives. On operations the sappers always seemed busy which has to be a good way to spend a tour. My guess is that a sapper can get more opportunities to go on operations than most troops. As well the engineers will give you useable skills for when you get out. Good luck.


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## KevinB

Michael Shannon said:
			
		

> Although I'm an infantryman I'd say that the engineers are a better way to go for a reg NCM. Having lost mortars and assault pioneers the chance to do interesting things has gone down a bit in the infantry.



Quite correct as far as Cbt Spt positions go (and TOW/ADP will be Black Hatted [real Black not Pat's in Black hats] soon enough anyway)

OP Tempo is much higher in Engineer units as well - due to limited number and the demand for them on tours (we like them to find mines rather than us find them... )


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## mellow_minded

Any of you know the extent of infintry training for Combat Engineers?  I'm also wondering what's a typical day for a REG soldier once he's finished Occupational training?  I know it might sound like a stupid question, but most info i've seen is on becoming an Engineer or Infintry or whatever... but not much info on what happens once you are one.  Can you give me an idea on what's life like as a Combat Engineer or Infintry... even Armoured.  I just would like an idea of what my life would be like as a soldier when you are not on tour.  Thanks for your time guys... I really appreciate it.  You guys are really helping me in my decision making.  Thanks again.


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## D-n-A

mellow_minded said:
			
		

> I'm also wondering what's a typical day for a REG soldier once he's finished Occupational training?



Depends on the trade and unit.

Also, its Infantry, not infintry.


Do a search on the combat arms trades, lots of threads on their training an what life is like at the unit when your done training.


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## TangoTwoBravo

Mellow-minded,

My own experience in a field unit is as an Armoured officer, but I'll try and give you an impression of life in the Army (not on tour).  A typical day could look like this:

0730 to 0830 hrs - Physical Training (PT) running, circuit training etc
0830 to 0930 - shower, coffee
0930 to 1130 - work/training (there may be a short Tp/Pl parade at the start of work)
1130 to 1230 - lunch
1230 to 1600 - work/training

The content of the "work/training" periods will vary between units and from day to day.  You might spend a week or two going through refresher training on basic soldier skills (wpns, comms, first aid etc).  You might spend the whole time doing vehicle maintenance if you are in a mech unit.  You might attend lectures on stuff you haven't learned on course yet.  Before an exercise you will spend the time getting ready for the exercise, and afterwards you will be cleaning stuff up and putting it away.

Once a week you will most likely have a "sports afternoon" where you go to the gym/rink and play sports against other Sqns/Coys in your unit.  Once a week you will also probably have a "stables" morning that sees the whole unit conducting maintenance.  There will be various Sqn/Coy parades where the OC and SSM/CSM will pass on info.  You will also see "Troop Leader's Hours" where you all down tools and go to a quiet spot for an hour with your Troop Leader and Tp WO to discuss how things are going.

In garrison your evenings and weekends will generally be free, although you will have "duties" from time to time.  These duties will require you to stay at the unit duty centre all night and look after things.  Before an exercise, however, you might work late in the evening getting things ready.  There is no such thing as overtime.  In the field your times belongs to the Army 100%.

In a "typical" training year you could expect two or three field exercises and several weapon ranges.  A year might look like this:

Aug - individual refresher training
Sep/Oct - one month of field training with workups and post-ex drills (perhaps in two or three blocks).  You could be home on weekends or you could be away for a month
Nov - an additional exercise at a higher level, plus some maintenance 
Dec - write off for the silly season.  Lots of parties and sporting events
Jan/Feb - winter warfare and perhaps some unit run courses
Mar - heavy weapons gun camp
Apr/May - field training (probably building on the Fall exercises)
Jun/Jul/ - support to reserve training/block leave/posting season

If there is a deployment coming up then pre-deployment training will kick in.  

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

2B


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## mellow_minded

So what would be the upsides of being Infantry???   and what would be the upsides of being a Combat Engineer?   How are the possibilities for advancement in each profession?   


Also if anyone can tell me more about Combat Divers... I would really apreciate it.

Also I read that in order to advance to the higher ranks as an Engineer you need good mathematical skills... Can anyone just give me an idea of just how much math i would need... i haven't done math since High School.


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## mellow_minded

Thanks alot 2Bravo... that really helped.  I just wanted an idea of what my life would be like as a full time soldier, and you've just answered that for me.  Thank you very much... You've helped me make one decision... I'm definitely going in Reg. Forces.  

Thanks again.  If you have any further advice or helpful info please let me know.  And could you tell me about the Armour side of the Army?


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## TangoTwoBravo

No problem.  As for life in the Armoured there are some threads on this but I'll give you a quick rundown (maybe some guys closer to the hangar floor can sort me out/help me out here.

In the Armoured Corps you will be a Crewman, and we have a "crew" system.  A vehicle crew is a fairly tight bunch and relations in a crew between ranks is perhaps less formal than in other arms.  If you come to the Dragoons then you will be in Reconnaissance.  Reconnaissance will tend to be out front obtaining information for the commander, and on operations you will out of the camp for most of the tour.  

You should arrive at the Regt from the School with the Coyote driving qualification.  You'll be placed in a Squadron, who in turn will place you in a Troop, Patrol, Crew and finally your position.  A Coyote crew has four soldiers: 

   a.   crew commander (anyone from a qualified MCpl to a Maj, but usually a Sgt/WO)
   b.   gunner
   c.   surveillance operator (sits in the back of the vehicle and operates the surveillance gear)
   d.   driver

Most guys are at least dual-qualified, meaning that while they are the Surv Op they can also drive or gun or all three.  As a new arrival at the unit you might be placed in the crew of an experienced NCO to further your development.  You might receive either a gunner course or a surv op course soon after your arrival, but this will depend on the tempo at the unit and whether you are deploying overseas anytime soon.  

Your crew will belong to a Patrol, which is two vehicles and eight people.  A Patrol is also a pretty tight group and the Patrol is the basic movement element in Recce.  You'll get to know the guys in your Patrol very well.  Recce guys tend to be independent and work well in small groups.  Recce is mostly "sneak and peak" with lots of Observation Post (OP) work as well.  Recce tasks and associated training are extremely varied.

After a couple of years "in the Troops" you might find yourself in the Troop Leader's vehicle or in the Squadron HQ.  You could also go the echelon with the SSM.  In these types of jobs you are expected to work with little supervision, since your crew commander has other things to worry about than telling you to adjust tire pressure.

That's probably enough for now.  There are some other threads that give more insight, and some of the guys in the Troops might be able to give you a better perspective than I can from my desk in Kingston.

Best of luck,

2B


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## mellow_minded

thanks alot 2Bravo... you've sorted added to my confusion cause i'm now somewhat interested in Armoured as well... ;D But i will keep on getting informed before making a decision.  Thanks again


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## mellow_minded

Can any Sapper tell me about the combat portion of the job?  Are we along side Infantry or are we more following them?  Do we as sappers participate in Combat at all?


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## patrick666

As quoted from the recruiting website...

"_Combat Engineers are members of the Military Engineer branch of can live, move and fight on the battlefield, and deny the same abilities to enemy troops. They also perform duties in aid of the civil power and civil authority; participate in peace-support operations; perform construction and maintenance tasks in support of the CF and other government organizations; drive and operate vehicles and equipment in support of Engineer Operations; and maintain field installations and facilities. 
_"

It's called RESEARCH... 

Cheers


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## mellow_minded

I know that is the text book answer, but i was wondering in terms of experience... Has there been sappers that have gone out on missions and actually had to fire their weapons?  I ask specifically about the COMBAT portion of the Sapper's job.  I want to know to what extent are they involved in Combat situations.


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## Gayson

An important thing to consider is retirement.

If you have QL5 and some other training done with the sappers, as well as a certain amount of time in, you can apply for license from the Ontario Association of Certified Technologists and Technicians to be a Civil Engineering Technologist.  Usually a 3 year college diploma is required to apply for this.


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## Belligerent Soldier

Wow the information in this thread just makes my decision in what interests me the most so much more difficult too. Everything just sounds so interesting in the combat arms.


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## Garett

INFANTRY!!!!


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## ENGINEERS WIFE

ENGINEER!!!!!


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## NL_engineer

I'd say Engineer  ;D  

but then again conflict of interest  ;D


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## Jorkapp

Garett said:
			
		

> INFANTRY!!!!





			
				ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> ENGINEER!!!!!


 :argument:


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## geo

Heh.... Engineers
The guys & gals that have the "big toys for big boys (and girls) ;D


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## Nfld Sapper

That we do geo  ;D


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## Rodahn

Thumper/Bubbleheads all the way.....

And I'm not the slightest bit biased  ;D

Chimo


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## aphadon

Okay, I'm not actually in YET, but my husband is an infantry NCM, and all he does is complain that it is REALLY boring on a standard day - you don't do nearly as much as you do in training, and especially now coming up to summer, there isn't much training or anything going on.

That said, he generally has PT sometime between 07:00 and 07:30 (could be a run, time in the gym, or as on some days, didly squat), then has a 10:00 timing for which they may have a class, do some sort of PT-style training (rappelling, hand-to-hand, rock climbing, etc.) Lunnch usually by 11:30ish, then back for 13:00 and again training of some sort, and off some time between 15:00 and 17:00. There are time when they'll head out to do field training, in which none of the timings are relevant, and depending on what's happening elsewhere on base, they may have other specific tasks or possibly nothing to do (after their last EX they spent several days cleaning the LAVs, whereas this week he has had days where they've been released early because of a lack of work, like today.) And at other times, he may be out overnight for field training.

Now, this isn't indicative of all infantry, nor of even every company in the battalion (2RCR). It just happens to be an average day for him. Things change, and honestly, we pretty much believe that no day is really "average" since he can be doing so many different things at so many different times. But I hope it helps a little bit.


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## geo

Yawn  :boring: - Is that all the Infantry do ???
That explains a lot about why I'm always soo tired.... Opening the way for the Infantry and carrying everyone on my back


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## NL_engineer

He must of had a lot of sleep on his last ex, us engineers shore did  ;D


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## TheHead

geo said:
			
		

> Yawn  :boring: - Is that all the Infantry do ???
> That explains a lot about why I'm always soo tired.... Opening the way for the Infantry and carrying everyone on my back



Please good sir, tell us of all the opening of ways and carrying you've done for us boring infantrymen


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## Rodahn

TheHead said:
			
		

> Please good sir, tell us of all the opening of ways and carrying you've done for us boring infantrymen



Where would you like us thumperheads to start???


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## 043

As a Combat Engineer, I would have to say go Infantry. Not that I don't like being a Combat Engineer but our secondary role is much more exciting than our primary role. Neither job requires anyone to be rocket scientists and that being said, show me a Infantry Sect Comd or Pl WO who has to carry around a battle box full of pubs in order to do his job? 

Chimo/Pro-Patria!!!!


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## Rodahn

2023 said:
			
		

> As a Combat Engineer, I would have to say go Infantry. Not that I don't like being a Combat Engineer but our secondary role is much more exciting than our primary role. Neither job requires anyone to be rocket scientists and that being said, show me a Infantry Sect Comd or Pl WO who has to carry around a battle box full of pubs in order to do his job?
> 
> Chimo/Pro-Patria!!!!



Very true unfortunately, the part about the battle box that is. While we are not "rocket scientists" our math skills must be above average. For the most part though the Engineers are utilized in the secondary role only as a last resort by the battle commander. Or at least it used to be that way.

Chimo


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## geo

.... funny - In training, infantry leaders find that we are too methodical when it comes time to solve a problem.
Those notional mine fields they throw up on a map....  We start going thru our procedures to get them across & they blow a gasket cause it's taking too long (in their mind)... so they bypass us - declare the minefield breached & carry on the ex....

Then we get to somewhere where we have the real deal.... take your time they tell us - take your time


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## Nfld Sapper

How true there Geo.


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## 043

Rodahn said:
			
		

> Very true unfortunately, the part about the battle box that is. While we are not "rocket scientists" our math skills must be above average. For the most part though the Engineers are utilized in the secondary role only as a last resort by the battle commander. Or at least it used to be that way.
> 
> Chimo



You aged yourself quite a bit........math skills? In the day of MS Excell there is no requirement for math skills. Everything is tables now. And even our Infantry brethern learn Exp Breaching. And I would disagree with your comment on being the last resort.....that's not true anymore at all. Ask any LAV Gnr from an Engr Sqn. In order to do our Primary role, we are often (8/10 times) called upon to do our Secondary role first.

Chimo/Pro-Patria!!!!


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## Rodahn

2023 said:
			
		

> You aged yourself quite a bit........math skills? In the day of MS Excell there is no requirement for math skills. Everything is tables now. And even our Infantry brethern learn Exp Breaching. And I would disagree with your comment on being the last resort.....that's not true anymore at all. Ask any LAV Gnr from an Engr Sqn. In order to do our Primary role, we are often (8/10 times) called upon to do our Secondary role first.
> 
> Chimo/Pro-Patria!!!!



Fair enough, many moons ago when I was still a thumperhead, that is the way it was. Time has a way of changing things.

Chimo

Edited to correct grammar


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## Fraser

Wow at least im not alone. I been strongly thinking of changing my MOC from Infantry to Combat Engineer. I still haven't decided. What type of math do Combat Enginee's do?


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## aesop081

Fraser said:
			
		

> What type of math do Combat Enginee's do?



Mostly the kind with numbers........


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## Fraser

Well will they expect us to know the math, or will they teach us how to do the math that we are a bit rusty on.

Will I need to know algebra, geometry, trig or will i need to know any type of math?


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## aesop081

Can you solve this :

(10+10) / 4 = ?


3 1/4 + 5 3/8 = ?


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## HItorMiss

I can do the first one....

Second well let's all be glad I'm not paid for my math skills...






For the record answer 1 is 5


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## 043

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Can you solve this :
> 
> (10+10) / 4 = ? *5*
> 
> 
> 3 1/4 + 5 3/8 = ? *8 5/8*


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## NL_engineer

I think he wanted the original poster to solve it  ;D




			
				BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> I can do the first one....
> 
> Second well let's all be glad I'm not paid for my math skills...
> 
> For the record answer 1 is 5



And thats why most of us have calculators  ;D


or the one of the more common ones: 132 sec / 120 s/m +0.3


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## aesop081

2023......I would have been worried if you couldnt do it  ;D


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## aesop081

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> or the one of the more common ones: 132 sec / 120 s/m +0.3



Thats what i was getting at......

*(walk time / burn time) + 0.3*

If you can do something simple like that or just plain add some basic measurements ( hence the fraction question) then your math skills are good enough to pass the engineer QL3.


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## NL_engineer

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Thats what i was getting at......
> 
> *(walk time / burn time) + 0.3*
> 
> If you can do something simple like that or just plain add some basic measurements ( hence the fraction question) then your math skills are good enough to pass the engineer QL3.



Seeing the more complicated stuff has been moved from the 5's to the 6A's


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## 043

DP1's now recieve this as part of Computer Based Learning.


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## Skoalastic

What you have to do is lay down "Where do I want to be in 20 years" etc.  The Infantry as a career offers plenty of excellent training opportunities, as does being a Combat Eng., although you may develop a much more employable skill set (Civi) as a Combat Eng. if you ever do decide to "get out" entirely from the CF. Also, it's important to know with the current mission overseas, when choosing a trade it's often difficult to switch trades if in fact you wish to do so (they like to hold onto both- unless you're going Pri2 or 3). If you're able to speak with experienced guys (this site is perfect) then do it. But either way you'll have one hell of a time.

Cheers


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## Smarts

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Mostly the kind with numbers........



I almost fell out of my chair when I read that lol.


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## Pat_Y

I debated between Engineer and Infantry for a long long time.... I ended up going and signing up for armoured.

The thing that changed me around was going and talking to the guys that are in the different trades. If you have the possibility to go talk to them I would suggest you do it. Who knows you might pick a completely different career.

Good luck for those of you who are still deciding.


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## bdave

BUMP.

Not many people telling us why they went infantry or engineer.

I was dead set on engineering but now im thinking id rather do infantry.
Recce and para sound very interesting.

Yet i still dont know what the real differences (non text book answers) are.

Seems like combat engineer you are usually very busy (since you always have something to build or destroy) but infantry offers more (you can be a sniper, anti tank, recce, etc).

I'd really like more people to chime on why they went one way or the other.
I really don't know what to do.


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## Larkvall

Hi,

Well I am applying to be a combat engineer reservist because I believe I will be in a better position to lend assistance in the case of a disaster or emergency. When I paid 32 CER a visit I was told when the Ice Storm struck they only allowed the med trades and engineers to go help. Also, when I was there they were on notice to be ready to assist if the flooding in Manitoba became too serious.


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## NL_engineer

bdave said:
			
		

> BUMP.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like combat engineer you are usually very busy (since you always have something to build or destroy) but infantry offers more (you can be a sniper, anti tank, recce, etc).



[sarcasm]
No Engineers aren't that busy, we are just out 6 to 7 days a week, and maybe a day for vehicle maintenance thrown in there.
[/sarcasm]

It all depends on the job you are doing, I am out every day, wile my counter parts in the field troop rotate through QRF, days off, and missions.  Just depends on what job you hold.

The infantry on my FOB don't leave much except for QRF calls and the occasional mission.  

As an engineer, when deployed, and in camp; you will more likely be doing little projects to improve your camp, etc. 

just my 200 Afghans (I think that equals about 2 cents CDN)


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## bdave

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> [sarcasm]
> No Engineers aren't that busy, we are just out 6 to 7 days a week, and maybe a day for vehicle maintenance thrown in there.
> [/sarcasm]
> 
> It all depends on the job you are doing, I am out every day, wile my counter parts in the field troop rotate through QRF, days off, and missions.  Just depends on what job you hold.
> 
> The infantry on my FOB don't leave much except for QRF calls and the occasional mission.
> 
> As an engineer, when deployed, and in camp; you will more likely be doing little projects to improve your camp, etc.
> 
> just my 200 Afghans (I think that equals about 2 cents CDN)



I wrote that engineers are very busy. Maybe i misunderstood your sarcasm.

I am looking at it from a potential officer stand point. I am really becoming interested in the whole pathfinder/para/recce area. I realize how difficult becoming a pathfinder would be. 
However i really like the whole idea behind the knowledge of construction (housing, water systems, etc) and explosives just sound fun. 

For now i am entering as reserve (a few years to go till i have my degree) and then when i get my degree i will most likely serve.

I am just finding this decision extremely difficult.


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## aesop081

bdave said:
			
		

> I am looking at it from a potential officer stand point. I am really becoming interested in the whole pathfinder/para/recce area.




Pssssstt........Combat engineers can do para courses too. They even do combat diving. Some have also been know to have done the pathfinder course.......recce patrolman course too.......and a whole other gambit of courses you've never heard of.

Keep that between us though...i dont want that to get posted on here a few more times. It might turn up in a search and thats not very useful.


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## bdave

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Pssssstt........Combat engineers can do para courses too. They even do combat diving. Some have also been know to have done the pathfinder course.......recce patrolman course too.......and a whole other gambit of courses you've never heard of.
> 
> Keep that between us though...i dont want that to get posted on here a few more times. It might turn up in a search and thats not very useful.



I've searched and i've even read all these links: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html
If i misunderstand things, you can tell me...but ease off on the sarcasm, people.
This forum is here for a reason.

I know combat engineers can take the course(s) but they are still combat engineers as opposed to recce or para, who do this "full time". Right?


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## dangerboy

If I were you I would concentrate on what the main job of both trades are instead of trying to decide based on what specialty roles you can get.  The reason i suggest that is because it is not always possible to get the specialty courses such as recce and basic para.  I have known soldiers that have tried for years to get one of those courses with no luck, and these are good hard working soldiers.  So whatever trade you pick be prepared to spend time in a regular rifle company or engineer squadron, I spent 15 years in a rifle coy.


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## Kat Stevens

bdave said:
			
		

> I've searched and i've even read all these links: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html
> If i misunderstand things, you can tell me...but ease off on the sarcasm, people.
> This forum is here for a reason.
> 
> I know combat engineers can take the course(s) but they are still combat engineers as opposed to recce or para, who do this "full time". Right?



You need to reassess what you think soldiers do.  Nobody jumps out of aircraft full time, nor do they sneak and peek everywhere they go.  They are specialist courses for infanteers, just as they are for engineers.  An infanteer is still infanteer, they just have differing qualifications and skills they bring to game, just as engineers do.


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## Jammer

That's right,
Because it's all about the bling on the uniform...(please don't open that can of worms).
You might be better served by actually speaking to a real live infanteer or engineer, or whatever trade you might think will get you the most bling in shortest time.
BTW, I hope you're in great shape cuz it's a long road to hump...


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## Nfld Sapper

bdave said:
			
		

> I've searched and i've even read all these links: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html
> If i misunderstand things, you can tell me...but ease off on the sarcasm, people.
> This forum is here for a reason.
> 
> I know combat engineers can take the course(s) but they are still combat engineers as opposed to recce or para, who do this "full time". Right?



We are even Heavy Equipment Operators, Water Supply Operators, BBE (Bridge, Boat, Errector) Operators.

You got to remember that not every trade ends with "Team, team, team" (no offense to my Infantry brothers).


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## ufm101

hey i' d like to know witch would be better for me. I'd like the challenge of being an infantry soldier but I also like construction. I want some action in my career, that's why I'm joining the CF. Combat engineer as the construction side, but does an infantry? The infantry as the action and the close combat but does a combat engineer? I'm currently waiting for a phone call or an answer to see if I'm accepted so any help would be appreciated. thx


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## George Wallace

Have you looked at the CFRC site and read the job descriptions for these two Trades?  Perhaps you should.  Then it may help if you read some of the topics and posts that have been made in both the Infantry Forum and the Engineer Forum.  After all that; perhaps then you may have a much better idea of what you are getting into. 

Right now your question shows that you have done absolutely no research, and you have provided us with little to qualify your question.  Are you very muscular?  Do you like hiking and camping out?  Do you like building things?  Do you like to dig?  Do you like to fire guns or/and are you a hunter?  Do you seek adventure?  Do you like the outdoors?  Do you want cammaradarie?  Do you like to blow things up?  What are your interests and what do they have to do in relation to whatever Trade you would like to do in the CF?  Without a lot more information, we can't make up your mind for you.............but then again, it is you who should be able to do that.

And seeing as this topic has been merged with a previous one....we can see you haven't done any of the above.   


 :


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## Larkvall

Ufm101 : From your previous post you have already applied. Did you not talk these trades over with a recruiter?


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## bdave

ufm101 said:
			
		

> hey i' d like to know witch would be better for me. I'd like the challenge of being an infantry soldier but I also like construction. I want some action in my career, that's why I'm joining the CF. Combat engineer as the construction side, but does an infantry? The infantry as the action and the close combat but does a combat engineer? I'm currently waiting for a phone call or an answer to see if I'm accepted so any help would be appreciated. thx



I had the same questions (as you can see from my multiple posts - several are in this thread).

Infantry is there to fight. They go, kick the doors down and do all the "dirty work". They are the front line in terms of combat.
Infantry excels in combat. It is their purpose. They find a threat, and destroy it. In that sense, they keep the peace. They are there to fight. Period.
Infantry can be varied(sniper, heavy machine gunner, etc) but the task at hand is usually very specific: Kill and destroy.

Combat engineers have several roles. Their definition is somewhat different than that of infantry. They destroy...sometimes they kill too, but they mostly build. Combat engineers have very general tasks to accomplish. 

Combat engineers focus on construction (set up water systems, housing and so forth) and deconstruction (defusing IEDs, bombs, mines, various booby traps and detonation of certain structures such as bridges and buildings).
However, since combat engineers are a "combat arm", that means that there might be situations where they are required to engage in combat.

Some examples:

If an area needs to be patrolled, then an infantry unit will most likely do that.
If an area needs to be attacked, infantry will do that.
If someone needs to be escorted, infantry will do that.
If a bomb needs to be defused, combat engineers will do that.
If a well, house or other such structure needs to be set up in an area, the combat engineers will do that.
If an area under the control of combat engineers is being attacked, then the combat engineers revert to their role as soldiers and must fight back as infantry.
If an area is under the control of infantry and is attacked, then infantry will fight back.
If an area or unit is in need of support fire or assistance, then infantry will be called in.
If mines need to be set or defused, then combat engineers are called in.
If a structure needs to be demolished with some high explosives, then the combat engineers are called in.


Even though combat engineers might be called upon to fight, it is not something that will necessarily happen. Keep this in mind.

I have decided infantry is for me. I was more interested in the combat aspect than the (de)construction aspect. I'm a very outdoors person. I'm well built and i love physical and mental challenges.

If you are too, then infantry is for you.

If (de)construction and explosives demolition is your thing, then combat engineer is for you.

One of the reasons i have decided infantry is because in my mind (and i don't know this yet) fighting an enemy that is somewhat predictable (other people) is something i *think* i could handle. That guy has a gun, let's flank him, etc. You can somewhat react to it.

Defusing a bomb which could go at any time is something i definitely could not handle. I'll be man enough to admit it. That scares the _*hell*_ out of me.
Whichever path you take, both need tons of commitment and brass balls.

Good luck in your decision.


(I am still somewhat of a beginner when it comes to this knowledge, so anyone please feel free to correct me.)


----------



## aesop081

bdave said:
			
		

> Combat engineers have several *rolls*.



"Roles"

And you have very, very limited knowledge of what those roles are. Your post on what engineers do only covers about 10 percent of it. Those constructions and demolitions are done during phases of war where then engineers carrying them out are very much under fire and often taking care of themselves. They often are "the front line in terms of combat" with everyone else (including the infantry) behind them.


----------



## PMedMoe

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> "Roles"



I don't know, I've seen Combat Engineers with rolls.


----------



## Kat Stevens

yup.  Rolls of det cord, rolls of time fuse, rolls of demo cable, rolls of barbed wire....


----------



## bdave

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> "Roles"
> 
> And you have very, very limited knowledge of what those roles are. Your post on what engineers do only covers about 10 percent of it. Those constructions and demolitions are done during phases of war where then engineers carrying them out are very much under fire and often taking care of themselves. They often are "the front line in terms of combat" with everyone else (including the infantry) behind them.



Damn, i even proof read the damn thing.

Well, that's why i'm here. To learn about this.
I know that the engineers are the first ones in and the last ones out.
However, do they conduct most of the fighting?
I didn't mean that engineers never fight. I meant when it comes to kicking down the doors and engaging in combat, the infantry is generally the one who takes the role (roll?).
Am i wrong?


----------



## Larkvall

bdave said:
			
		

> Damn, i even proof read the damn thing.
> 
> Well, that's why i'm here. To learn about this.
> I know that the engineers are the first ones in and the last ones out.
> However, do they conduct most of the fighting?
> I didn't mean that engineers never fight. I meant when it comes to kicking down the doors and engaging in combat, the infantry is generally the one who takes the role (roll?).
> Am i wrong?



Actually I believe the engineers are the ones who break down the doors.
I posted this video before on another thread, but I might as well post it here again.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dregar1#play/uploads/10/ixT2kTk-F90


----------



## dangerboy

It is a cool video, just so you know there are other trades besides Engineers that are trained to do breaches.  Anyone that goes on the Urban Operation Instructors course learns those skills.  I personally have done shotgun breaching overseas with an Infantry section.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Balistic Breaching IIRC can be done by anyone but Explosive Tactical Breaching must be done by either a Basic Dml Instructor (AGRS) or a 00339 Cbt Engr 2I/C (AIRE). But for targets not listed on the breaching table only a 00339 Cbt Engr 2I/C (AIRE) can do it.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

To put it simply the Engineers are Jacks of all trades and masters of none (or so goes the saying).

Over there we are being employed as infanteers right up to the point when our knowledge of explosvies are needed. So not only do we have to up on the latest and greatest infantry tactics we must also be up on the latest and greatest explosives and accessories and other items like that.

Also thats why there are volumes and volumes of books that we must have in our battle box inorder to complete our tasks because there is no way we could memorize all that information.


----------



## Dog

Sappers are like the army's little pitbull, we're small (in numbers), mistreated, ignored, and abused.... and every once in a while we get let out to attack someone.


----------



## PanaEng

Dog said:
			
		

> Sappers are like the army's little pitbull, we're small (in numbers), mistreated, ignored, and abused.... and every once in a while we get let out to attack someone.



 :rofl: :cheers:, +1 (oops, internet speak...)


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Dog said:
			
		

> Sappers are like the army's little pitbull, we're small (in numbers), mistreated, ignored, and abused.... and every once in a while we get let out to attack someone.



Big CHIMO there brother Dog!

:cheers:


----------



## McG

bdave said:
			
		

> (I am still somewhat of a beginner when it comes to this knowledge, so anyone please feel free to correct me.)


Your description of Cbt Engr is not so great.  Try some research here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22088.0.html

I'd also suggest you might re-visit your conclusion that the enemy is predictable.


----------



## bdave

Larkvall said:
			
		

> Actually I believe the engineers are the ones who break down the doors.
> I posted this video before on another thread, but I might as well post it here again.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/dregar1#play/uploads/10/ixT2kTk-F90



Right. 

And i didn't mean the enemy is completely predictable. What i mean is that the human threat that you are facing is infront of you (generally) and you can react to him.


----------



## Snaketnk

My teachings an infanteer is that the Engineers are there to enable our movement and to impede the enemy's.

In training, we call up the engineers for explosive breaches, but we clear up that point before they get there, and we're still the ones that go in and clear the room.

Also, to my knowledge, overseas, Echos don't go anywhere without Infantry escorting them.

I envy your work with explosives, but not building level 4 Concertina barriers.


----------



## PuckChaser

Snaketnk said:
			
		

> Also, to my knowledge, overseas, Echos don't go anywhere without Infantry escorting them.



Depends on what you mean by anywhere. I was in a convoy that was the 4 vehicles of an Echo Troop, and my callsign. It was a roadmove to KAF, but in an asymmetric battlespace, any roadmove could be dangerous.


----------



## aesop081

Snaketnk said:
			
		

> Also, to my knowledge, overseas, Echos don't go anywhere without Infantry escorting them.



If by "overseas" you mean "Afghanistan" then i cant comment but i have been overseas as an engineer and very rarely had the luxury of infantry provoding cover. 99% of the time we were out on our own and providing protection to ourselves in one way or another.


----------



## Kat Stevens

You mean with guns and everything, just like real soldiers?  Kewl.


----------



## NL_engineer

Snaketnk said:
			
		

> My teachings an infanteer is that the Engineers are there to enable our movement and to impede the enemy's.
> 
> In training, we call up the engineers for explosive breaches, but we clear up that point before they get there, and we're still the ones that go in and clear the room.
> 
> Also, to my knowledge, overseas, Echos don't go anywhere without Infantry escorting them.
> 
> I envy your work with explosives, but not building level 4 Concertina barriers.



Well I was on the road almost daily, and we only had infantry with us for ops, or when we were escorting them.


----------



## GnyHwy

GO ARTY

Blowin' shit up is only a radio transmission away!


----------



## Michael OLeary

GnyHwy said:
			
		

> GO ARTY
> 
> Blowin' crap up is only a radio transmission away!



Unfortunately, that wasn't one of the two options this thread was about.  I suspect the original poster was imagining himself having a more hands-on role in "blowin' crap up."  This was possibly implied when he said:



> The only decision I'm having difficulty making is whether I want to join as a Combat Engineer or Infantry.



But thanks for comin' out and summarizing your Corps role as radio operator.   >


----------



## GnyHwy

Mr O'Leary,

I'm glad you showed up.  I like the challenges.  

The original thread is about 5 years old and the individual who raised it is probably a Sgt by now.  Just trying to promote my own.

Perhaps you may have not needed us before but, I assure the person sending the info through the Arty Rad Op as you call it is right next to those who are fightng up front.


----------



## GnyHwy

Respectfully, I will post it in the Inf vs. Armoured vs Eng vs Arty Post.

Thanks


----------



## Michael OLeary

Regardless of his rank now, his question was about joining as a Private, and he stated his personal choices at the time.  The artillery, organizationally, may be doing great things lately, but there are very different training opportunities and duties between a Sapper, an Infantry Private and a Gunner.  I don't think he was looking to be the "humping 100-pound projectiles" part of a team to blow things up.


----------



## NL_engineer

GnyHwy said:
			
		

> GO ARTY
> 
> Blowin' crap up is only a radio transmission away!



If you don't mind the first few rounds missing, or being duds  ;D


----------



## PanaEng

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> If you don't mind the first few rounds missing, or being duds  ;D


I heard that when they were trying to test the HESCO bunker and RAM shelter in Suffield they couldn't land a 155 round on top - they had to rig the round with electric det and and set it off that way... 

UBIQUE!


----------



## GnyHwy

> If you don't mind the first few rounds missing, or being duds





> I heard that when they were trying to test the HESCO bunker and RAM shelter in Suffield they couldn't land a 155 round on top


.

As far as first round hits. were are still working on it and as close as ever.  Especially with 777.

As far as the 2nd comment goes.  I am not sure about the test that was conducted or the range they tried it at but, if I was shooting, your Hesco would be pebbles right now.


----------



## GnyHwy

Also, I am not sure of the results nor do we ned to speak of them but, incoming velocity and mass will change the results dramatically.

Don`t get me wrong.  Hesco is the most simplictic and effective field fortification available but, if all else fails order proximity and all pers taking cover behind walls will immediately urinate themselves.


----------



## 1081shadow

/bump

 I'm having the same problem deciding. 

Would be nice for some real Combat Engineers or infantry to give some info on which career choice would be better


----------



## aesop081

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Would be nice for some real Combat Engineers or infantry to give some info on which career choice would be better



I'm sure they can tell you what their trade is like. As to which one is better, well, thats up to you ( and only you ) to decide.


----------



## SeanNewman

Please read all the threads on becoming Infantry, and then go to the Recruiting Centre.

Everyone's opinions on here will be moot if the Infantry intake for this year is full and closed.

On that note, IMO you're at least picking between the two "best" trades    Lots of chances for adventure to be had in either.


----------



## cn

1081shadow said:
			
		

> /bump
> 
> I'm having the same problem deciding.
> 
> Would be nice for some real Combat Engineers or infantry to give some info on which career choice would be better



A combat engineer would likely say their trade is better, and someone in the infantry would obviously do the same.  There is tons of reading on it (even in this thread).  

Try asking more specific questions.  

No one can tell you what *your * preference would be, that is something you gotta figure out on your own, they can provide information but they can't make a decision for you.


----------



## 1081shadow

What I mean is like, will a combat engineer be in the front lines shooting his weapon, or just building bridges, clearing mines ect.

Do they see action as much as infantry? Can they be on their own and not have the infantry back them up ?


----------



## SeanNewman

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Do they see action as much as infantry?



I am in the Infantry and as happy/loyal as I can be to my trade...and I can without pause state that in the theatre we are involved in now Combat Engineers do more than their share of heavy lifting in terms of risk and "action".

Just ask yourself what is killing the vast majority of us.  It's not bullets.


----------



## George Wallace

1081shadow said:
			
		

> What I mean is like, will a combat engineer be in the front lines shooting his weapon, or just building bridges, clearing mines ect.
> 
> Do they see action as much as infantry? Can they be on their own and not have the infantry back them up ?



I am sure that if you did some reading here, you'll find that: Yes Engineers do fight in the front; Yes they do fire their weapons at times, besides building bridges and clearing mines; Yes they can see as much action as Infantry; AND Yes they can work on their own without Infantry backing them up.


----------



## aesop081

1081shadow said:
			
		

> or just building bridges, clearing mines ect.



The rivers that need to be crossed are in front of every one...the minefields that need to be breached are in front of everyone...guess where the engineers are ?


----------



## 1081shadow

Good to know. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't choosing a career that relied on infantry to watch over us.


----------



## aesop081

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Good to know. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't choosing a career that relied on infantry to watch over us.



You know this warfare things i done as a team right ?

Everyone has their part to play........no one fights alone.


----------



## 1081shadow

This might be a stupid mission, but do combat engineers ever go on combat missions?


----------



## aesop081

1081shadow said:
			
		

> This might be a stupid mission, but do combat engineers ever go on combat missions?



The trade isnt called "backyard engineer" is it ?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

1081shadow said:
			
		

> This might be a stupid mission, but do combat engineers ever go on combat missions?



Ok have you not read anything above in the previous threads?


----------



## SeanNewman

As per the above posts, it does seem to us like you're not reading what we tell you, but I suppose it's possible you just may not be using the best words.  IE, our version of "combat" may be different than yours.

When you write "combat", do you mean an offensive-based mission where there is an enemy and you go out to kill them, either by advancing until you find them or knowing where they are and conducting a deliberate operation against them?

If so, then yes Combat Engineers take part in those sorts of missions, but as per the above, everyone has a role to play.  In this case, the Engineers may be involved with route clearances on the way there and if it's a house/building at the end they'll be involved in clearing the obstacles/demo that the door kickers (usually infantry) find.  But as has already been brought up a dozen times they are close to the front and can quite easily get shot at and shoot back at the enemy.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

1081shadow said:
			
		

> /bump
> 
> I'm having the same problem deciding.
> 
> Would be nice for some real Combat Engineers or infantry to give some info on which career choice would be better



You've got until April next year to decide. There are literally dozens of threads of these same questions on the forum already.


----------



## 1081shadow

Petamocto said:
			
		

> As per the above posts, it does seem to us like you're not reading what we tell you, but I suppose it's possible you just may not be using the best words.  IE, our version of "combat" may be different than yours.
> 
> When you write "combat", do you mean an offensive-based mission where there is an enemy and you go out to kill them, either by advancing until you find them or knowing where they are and conducting a deliberate operation against them?
> 
> If so, then yes Combat Engineers take part in those sorts of missions, but as per the above, everyone has a role to play.  In this case, the Engineers may be involved with route clearances on the way there and if it's a house/building at the end they'll be involved in clearing the obstacles/demo that the door kickers (usually infantry) find.  But as has already been brought up a dozen times they are close to the front and can quite easily get shot at and shoot back at the enemy.



That is exactly the answer that I was looking for  

Thanks alot !


----------



## 1081shadow

Also can any combat engineers here tell me the pro's and con's of being a combat engineer ?


----------



## SeanNewman

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Thanks alot !



You're certainly welcome.  Understand that it's frustrating for some people to answer the same questions over and over, but I've got plenty of patience so feel free to PM me with more questions and I'll give you all the time I can.


----------



## 1081shadow

Also, do any combat engineers here find their job boring or tedious or is it exciting ? 

A response would be greatly appreciated


----------



## aesop081

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Also, do any combat engineers here find their job boring or tedious or is it exciting ?



I did it for 11 years and never found it too boring. You have the best of both worlds in a way. You do alot of what infanteers do and you had solid technical challenges of your own.

I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this " infantry is super exciting so everything else might be boring" idea.


----------



## 1081shadow

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I did it for 11 years and never found it too boring. You have the best of both worlds in a way. You do alot of what infanteers do and you had solid technical challenges of your own.
> 
> I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this " infantry is super exciting so everything else might be boring" idea.



Well most of the videos that I saw of infantry was firefights. So it's hard not to think that they aren't exciting. All I was wondering was if Engineers had the same amount of excitement.


----------



## 2 Cdo

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Well most of the videos that I saw of infantry was firefights. So it's hard not to think that they aren't exciting. All I was wondering was if Engineers had the same amount of excitement.



It's just one long firefight from the day you join until you retire. :

Sorry if that is not to your liking but everything you have asked has been REPEATEDLY answered. If your listening skills are on par with your comprehension skills we don't want you in either the infantry or the engineers.


----------



## SeanNewman

1081shadow said:
			
		

> Well most of the videos that I saw of infantry was firefights. So it's hard not to think that they aren't exciting. All I was wondering was if Engineers had the same amount of excitement.



If you do a 25 year career in the Infantry, I can guarantee you that you will spend a _maximum_ of 0.1% of your career in direct contact with the enemy.

Probably a lot closer to 0.001%, actually.


----------



## ConsideringCareers…

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Right now your question shows that you have done absolutely no research, and you have provided us with little to qualify your question.  Are you very muscular?  Do you like hiking and camping out?  Do you like building things?  Do you like to dig?  Do you like to fire guns or/and are you a hunter?  Do you seek adventure?  Do you like the outdoors?  Do you want cammaradarie?  Do you like to blow things up?  What are your interests and what do they have to do in relation to whatever Trade you would like to do in the CF?  Without a lot more information, we can't make up your mind for you.............but then again, it is you who should be able to do that.
> 
> :



Sorry for the bump, I have been yelled at (PMed) for both posting on an old thing when I was “supposed to make a new one”, and I have been PMed for making a new one when there was already one that had not been posted in for 10 years. 

Anyhow, I would like to answer these questions in order to have some of you kind fellows help me along in this choice. 

Are you very muscular? I am not particularily muscular (although I am working on it, I am 15), but I am fit and am able to do close to 40 push ups on a regular basis, just to give you some information.

Do you like hiking and camping out? Hiking and Camping in the world that God created, especially in a country as beautiful and freeing as Canada, yeah, well, I bet you know where I am going with this  ;D

Do you like building things? A fair bit, I have never seen my self doing construction work, but I like to build stuff that I know will help myself or someone else.

Do you like to dig? I’m not sure how to answer this, we just got about a ton of dirt (I have no idea how much it weighs), and we put it around in the planters (gardens), if that counts.

Do you like to fire guns or/and are you a hunter? I don’t hunt, except for squirrels/chipmunks, they destroy things and so yes I do shoot them on a very regular basis. If I am not doing homework, not on this forum, and not eating food inside, I am doing target practice. I have gotten fairly proficient with a rifle (Proficient like 1 inch grouping at 100M with a .22), mind you this is not shooting in a stressful situation.

Do you seek adventure? All the time

Do you like the outdoors? Yup

Do you want cammaradarie? This is about the most important thing to me, does one (Infantry or Engineers) have better or stronger camaraderie?

Do you like to blow things up? Is this even a question?  ;D Although doing it as a job isn’t something that I feel I “need”.

What are your interests and what do they have to do in relation to whatever Trade you would like to do in the CF?
- I like shooting for one.
- I like to help people, I have enjoyed staying home for a week or two some years and sandbagging my area with the army, they let me inside/on top of their LAVs (they may have been Coyotes, not Kodiaks/LAV IIIs, my apologies), every since I have been in love with LAVs.
- I am trying to decide between armour recce, Infantry, and Combat engineer, but let’s keep this threads discussion to Infantry and Engineers.
- Does one trade (Infantry/Engineer) give me a higher likelyhood of trying out for CSOR/JTF2 (I’m sorry, I’m fifteen and just had to ask)

P.S. My mother doesn’t want me going the infantry route because it doesn’t lead to a civilian career, but I figure if I do it for some amount of years and then remuster (OT) to a more technical trade that would allow me to transfer that over to civilian after a total of 25 or 35 years.

Thanks all, sorry for any grammar/spelling mistakes, I don’t think the spell check feature works on iPad.


----------



## Jarnhamar

ConsideringCareers I've seen your posts as of late and I have some advice you may or may not want to heed. In addition to the great advice you've been given so far that is. (I work with a lot of new soldiers who are basically you but 2-4 years down the road)

Absolutely finish high school. Members who don't finish high school before joining often end up trying to do so afterwards which can be a pain in the ass and harder to do both because you're out of the school mindset and also adult home and work responsibilities.

If you can afford it you should really consider getting a college diploma or university degree (I'd lean towards college) even if it puts you joining the CAF back a couple years.  There are a number of reasons for this;

1. Life experience. Going right from high school to the full time military you're not coming in with a lot of adult life experience. You'll do a lot of "growing up" in the army. Problem is sometimes it's pretty slow. There's still some 35+ year old men who act like 19 year olds. Coming in to the military with previous life experience will make you more mature and teach you life skills. In some cases the military teaches you to be independent, in others it teaches dependency.

2. Injuries.  People don't join the military expecting to get seriously hurt. You might join the military expecting to do 25 years except you might spend a year in a battalion, go on a parachute course, land on your head and find yourself injured to the point you're not able to continue military service after a whopping 11 months in the army. (I personally know 3 people who went and are going through this right now).  The army will try and help you transition to civilian life but we don't have an amazing track record doing that. Plus it's even more changeling when you're injured.  By having some sort of post secondary schooling you're helping yourself in the unfortunate event you need to adopt a second career (and pay bills).

3. You might end up hating the army. It happens. People have all kinds of expectations coming in to the army (military) which don't always turn out well. You might join up and after 3 years realize you hate military life. You're bored at work, you don't feel challenged, you don't like where you're posted, you hate having very little control over your life. List goes on. You might do 3 years and not re-sign. Now you have high school (hopefully) and 3 years army service. Good paying jobs are pretty competitive, by having post secondary school you at least have a partial plan B.

4. Bringing skills to the work place.  One of the things you'll notice about the combat arms (I'd say especially infantry) is that you end up working all over the place. You could be driving seadoo's all summer patrolling a bay for security, setting up hundreds of tents and helping run a camp, working a desk job on computers you were never trained with, helping build ranges with wood and tools, maintenance on vehicles, working with civilian organizations. Stuff you learn in post secondary school, say communications or computers, will be useful in your military career. Soldiers with woodworking and tool experience are often asked to help out or lead different projects or jobs.


IF you decide to do post secondary school give it a lot of thought. Instead of the common police foundations look at something you may already have a background in or something that relates to a job that's in high demand just in case your 25 years turns in to 3.


----------



## mariomike

ConsideringCareers… said:
			
		

> Sorry for the bump, I have been yelled at (PMed) for both posting on an old thing when I was “supposed to make a new one”, and I have been PMed for making a new one when there was already one that had not been posted in for 10 years.



I use this as my guideline,

Necroposting - Not always a bad idea  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/87278.0


----------



## Michael OLeary

ConsideringCareers…

I'll add a few points to the very good advice posted above by Jarnhamar.

It's easy to find a lot of interesting things that trades like infantry and combat engineers do (or might do). But the most important thing to understand is that (a) not everyone in each trade does all of those things, and (b) none of them are doing the interesting things all the time. A lot of people are disappointed when they discover that a lot of military service isn't the fun parts. There's also a lot of heavy (and seemingly unrewarding) work, both in support of the 'fun' stuff, and sometimes you get to do the heavy labour without being part of the team that does the fun part. Sometimes you're in the unit that watches other units go on tours or challenging exercises, finding yourself just at the wrong place and wrong time for that opportunity. As you explore trade choices, keep in mind that the ideal outcome of trade choice and level of activity seldom happens, and be prepared to manage your expectations when you find yourself in the slow lane because of where the army placed you. There are a lot of jobs filled by members of each trade that are just as important and need to be done well and professionally, but they aren't the roles emphasized in recruiting videos or youtube highlights.


----------



## ConsideringCareers…

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> ConsideringCareers I've seen your posts as of late and I have some advice you may or may not want to heed. In addition to the great advice you've been given so far that is. (I work with a lot of new soldiers who are basically you but 2-4 years down the road)
> 
> Absolutely finish high school. Members who don't finish high school before joining often end up trying to do so afterwards which can be a pain in the *** and harder to do both because you're out of the school mindset and also adult home and work responsibilities.
> 
> If you can afford it you should really consider getting a college diploma or university degree (I'd lean towards college) even if it puts you joining the CAF back a couple years.  There are a number of reasons for this;
> 
> 1. Life experience. Going right from high school to the full time military you're not coming in with a lot of adult life experience. You'll do a lot of "growing up" in the army. Problem is sometimes it's pretty slow. There's still some 35+ year old men who act like 19 year olds. Coming in to the military with previous life experience will make you more mature and teach you life skills. In some cases the military teaches you to be independent, in others it teaches dependency.
> 
> 2. Injuries.  People don't join the military expecting to get seriously hurt. You might join the military expecting to do 25 years except you might spend a year in a battalion, go on a parachute course, land on your head and find yourself injured to the point you're not able to continue military service after a whopping 11 months in the army. (I personally know 3 people who went and are going through this right now).  The army will try and help you transition to civilian life but we don't have an amazing track record doing that. Plus it's even more changeling when you're injured.  By having some sort of post secondary schooling you're helping yourself in the unfortunate event you need to adopt a second career (and pay bills).
> 
> 3. You might end up hating the army. It happens. People have all kinds of expectations coming in to the army (military) which don't always turn out well. You might join up and after 3 years realize you hate military life. You're bored at work, you don't feel challenged, you don't like where you're posted, you hate having very little control over your life. List goes on. You might do 3 years and not re-sign. Now you have high school (hopefully) and 3 years army service. Good paying jobs are pretty competitive, by having post secondary school you at least have a partial plan B.
> 
> 4. Bringing skills to the work place.  One of the things you'll notice about the combat arms (I'd say especially infantry) is that you end up working all over the place. You could be driving seadoo's all summer patrolling a bay for security, setting up hundreds of tents and helping run a camp, working a desk job on computers you were never trained with, helping build ranges with wood and tools, maintenance on vehicles, working with civilian organizations. Stuff you learn in post secondary school, say communications or computers, will be useful in your military career. Soldiers with woodworking and tool experience are often asked to help out or lead different projects or jobs.
> 
> 
> IF you decide to do post secondary school give it a lot of thought. Instead of the common police foundations look at something you may already have a background in or something that relates to a job that's in high demand just in case your 25 years turns in to 3.



Super good post, that is some of the information I have been trying to get in other threads. I have never even considered dropping out of highschool (as much as I don’t like it), as I know that you can’t do much if you choose to do that.

I am considering greatly to get a Bachelors degree before joining, mostly because it seems like a good idea to be educated in case I don’t have a career in the army, on the other hand, I don’t enjoy school.

(To Mariomike: Thank you, I had read that a long time ago, but I couldn’t find it when I was deciding whether or not to post here, lol, thanks)

(To Michael O’Leary: I gotta keep that in mind for sure, I have then figure out what the boring (If I can use that term) parts of all the trades I am considering is, I don’t know that I would enjoy combat engineer if it would constantly be construction work, thank you for the post, tons of great information!)


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## mariomike

ConsideringCareers… said:
			
		

> (To Mariomike: Thank you, I had read that a long time ago, but I couldn’t find it when I was deciding whether or not to post here, lol, thanks)



You are welcome. Good luck. < smile > ( Smile smiley no longer available. )


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## ConsideringCareers…

mariomike said:
			
		

> You are welcome. Good luck. < smile > ( Smile smiley no longer available. )




They got rid of a lot of the smiley’s no more tanks, or machine gunners, no snipers, no grinning guy like this ;D
 Nevermind you just have to input what it was yourself, I think my favourite was like :fifty: 

Does :smile: work?


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## mariomike

ConsideringCareers… said:
			
		

> Does :smile: work?



That is the only smiley I ever used. I used it frequently, but it got deleted < sad >. 

There's a "cheesy grin" smilie on the drop down menu, but I don't smile that way. I like to smile at people - if I like them, but mine is just a plain old-fashioned smile. I only know the one way.

Hey! It's back. Thank-you!


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## ConsideringCareers…

mariomike said:
			
		

> That is the only smiley I ever used. I used it frequently, but it got deleted < sad >.
> 
> There's a "cheesy grin" smilie on the drop down menu, but I don't smile that way. I like to smile at people - if I like them, but mine is just a plain old-fashioned smile. I only know the one way.
> 
> Hey! It's back. Thank-you!



   

Okay, but can we get back to my question please?

:fifty:


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## war2001v

ConsideringCareers… said:
			
		

> Are you very muscular? I am not particularly muscular (although I am working on it, I am 15), but I am fit and am able to do close to 40 push ups on a regular basis, just to give you some information.



About this, I'm not actually in the Canadian Forces (Or hopefully not yet at least) but from what I've found from this website is that you don't have to be muscular to be in the combat arms. Your best bet is to practice your cardio endurance and some calisthenics. Weightlifting is very good too but make sure you have already the previous two things and seeing how you can already do a decent amount of push-ups, your main focus should be on cardio . Also, I've heard that overly-buff persons tend to struggle to maintain their muscle mass on field exercises and whatnot. 
P.S. To make sure this comment isn't COMPLETELY off topic, remember that no trade will do more infantry-oriented tasks than infantry. But Combat Engineers most likely have the closest relationship to them. It's all about if you want the best of both worlds (blowing stuff up and going pew-pew), or being the best at one thing, (going pew-pew).


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