# Sailors being sailors



## Navy_Blue (12 Oct 2012)

Listening to CBC this afternoon.  Wanted to smash the radio out of the dash.  I wish I had never experienced what the real navy was like.  Mind you it was the early 2000's and nothing as epic as the 70's 80's and 90's must have been like.  Every one I have talked with that was with me and has sailed since said HMCS Montreal's NATO in 2005 was the last time the navy was fun.  Sadly this link will confirm the cancer that is taking the last breaths out of something that has been my chosen career but so much more than that.  No one was charged by civi police, there was no rape, no murder, no drugs even.  Just a bunch of people blowing off steam and acting no different than many tourists in key west.  It breaks my heart.  :facepalm:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/12/ns-drunken-sailors.html


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## Stoker (12 Oct 2012)

Navy_Blue said:
			
		

> Listening to CBC this afternoon.  Wanted to smash the radio out of the dash.  I wish I had never experienced what the real navy was like.  Mind you it was the early 2000's and nothing as epic as the 70's 80's and 90's must have been like.  Every one I have talked with that was with me and has sailed since said HMCS Montreal's NATO in 2005 was the last time the navy was fun.  Sadly this link will confirm the cancer that is taking the last breaths out of something that has been my chosen career but so much more than that.  No one was charged by civi police, there was no rape, no murder, no drugs even.  Just a bunch of people blowing off steam and acting no different than many tourists in key west.  It breaks my heart.  :facepalm:
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/12/ns-drunken-sailors.html



Unfortunately that's the way we're going these days. As long as no one got hurt and the uniform wasn't disgraced have fun.


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## dimsum (12 Oct 2012)

Shockingly enough, the comments on the CBC are *for* the sailors/soldiers/air-people letting off some steam.  On the CBC.


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## Navy_Blue (12 Oct 2012)

This is the Navy I will forever remember and love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMClWhWS2U

I have met OD's who don't know what an AMR Party is.

Gah!!


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## The Bread Guy (12 Oct 2012)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Shockingly enough, the comments on the CBC are *for* the sailors/soldiers/air-people letting off some steam.  On the CBC.


The clustering of comments can sometimes be surprising.


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## Halifax Tar (13 Oct 2012)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/12/ns-drunken-sailors.html

Hilarious story... CBC is short on news again it seems...


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## Journeyman (13 Oct 2012)

More breaking news and in-depth reporting from CBC; our tax dollars hard at work.  :


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## Kirkhill (13 Oct 2012)

5000 Yanks, Brits, Canucks, Francos and other assorted nationalities and only 14 incidents?  Weren't they trying?  Was it that miserable an exercise?


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## smale436 (13 Oct 2012)

This is pretty disheartening to see based on my experiences in Key West three years in a row. Us fighter guys know how to have a good time. I could write a book about what went down on our nightly trips down Duval St during American Spring Break. It's an amazing place to be at any time of the year. Walking up and down the street with open alcohol (as long as it's in cans pr plastic cups) is pretty much allowed. People of all ages and life experiences mingling. We often stayed at the Truman Annex which was walking distance to the bar strip. There are a few nights I don't remember the walk home and I certainly was slumped on a stool a few times, but nothing serious. Despite our antics, we were tee-totallers compared to the often underage college kids passed out on the beach by 1300 with a keg of Bud Light.  If anything KW is quite open-minded and accepting of all the tourists that come. CBC at it's best quality reporting yet again...


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## Furniture (13 Oct 2012)

That story was about as usefully informative as a story about conservation officers receiving reports of bears defecating in the woods. :


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## Cdnleaf (13 Oct 2012)

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> That story was about as usefully informative as a story about conservation officers receiving reports of bears defecating in the woods. :



Pure outrageous speculation; what happens in the woods stays in the woods. Bears are too smart to get caught by Conservation Officers.


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## ModlrMike (13 Oct 2012)

cdnleaf said:
			
		

> Pure outrageous speculation; what happens in the woods stays in the woods. Bears are too smart to get caught by Conservation Officers.



Apparently not:


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## Oldgateboatdriver (14 Oct 2012)

In my days, we had a sophisticated questionnaire developed specifically to deal with cops returning drunk sailors to a ship.

It went like this:

We asked the cop:

1- Was he in a fight?
2- Did he hurt anyone in any fashion?
3- Did he steal or break anything? and,
4- Can I expect any flak from a local politician, official or important citizen concerning their daughter?

Unless the answer to any of these questtions was a yes, we just  "put them in the long boat till ..."


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## Pat in Halifax (14 Oct 2012)

I am not sure if this is still being done but a couple years ago when I was on a Great Lakes trip, the job of the FP Chief first night in was to pay a visit to the local constabulary with a nominal role of the ship's company as well as a cell phone number to a cell phone ONLY the FP Chief carried. Admitedly a pain in the a** getting woken at 4 am to bail someone out, it beat the alternative for the individual and therefore the ship as a whole.  Though there were a few disciplinary issues, they were all handled internally and there was no harm done.
On another note, I recall getting a ride from the Boston Police once when myself and another buddy were found in a 'no-no' zone wandering aimlessly!

Pat


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## jollyjacktar (14 Oct 2012)

I have found that as time goes on the official attitude towards blowing off steam has become more of "Billy Graham Crusade" more often than not.  Work hard, play hard has pretty much been killed off.  Now it's just work hard, work hard and be good little children.


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## Ex-Dragoon (14 Oct 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I have found that as time goes on the official attitude towards blowing off steam has become more of "Billy Graham Crusade" more often than not.  Work hard, play hard has pretty much been killed off.  Now it's just work hard, work hard and be good little children.



Agreed...sadly morale is being eroded more and more with each day and nothing is being done to stop it. :/


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## jollyjacktar (14 Oct 2012)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Agreed...sadly morale is being eroded more and more with each day and nothing is being done to stop it. :/


I firmly don't believe they give a damn about the morale.  Image is everything and god forbid there is a whiff of scandal to any degree.  That's what they care about now.  Image.


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## Edward Campbell (14 Oct 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I firmly don't believe they give a damn about the morale.  Image is everything and god forbid there is a whiff of scandal to any degree.  That's what they care about now.  Image.




You are quite right, except fr the use of the word "now." It was the same in 1945 when the political and military pond scum in Ottawa laid off the blame for the Halifax "riots" in RAdm Murray - who was the most significant Canadian military leader in all of our history, and, yes, I include, Frontenac, Wolf, Brock, de Saliberry, Otter and Currie. The issue then, as now, was image.

The media, whose ignorance in as boundless as its arrogance, is all powerful and admirals and generals, like their political masters, quake before its power.  But the politicians and generals are wrong: the people don't care. A few will cluck about _"sailors being sailors"_ but it will not change their votes in the next election, nor will an unfortunate barroom brawl in a friendly foreign port cause the PCO, Finance and the Treasury Board to cut the Navy's budget. But the brawl will *"embarrass the minister"* and that has become a mortal sin. And therein lies a serious, moral, problem for leaders ~ while no one should go out looking for ways to embarrass the minister, or anyone else, for that matter, commanders, at all levels, must be, as Murray was in 1945, *loyal* both up and down the chain - as loyal to the men and women under their command as they are to those who have authority over them. Thus while we ought not to embarrass the minister we, equally, ought not to severely punish our people for matters of little consequence.

But, since *embarrassing the minister* is now sufficient to consign one to the ninth circle of hell it will decide who will or will not get promoted to commodore or admiral so captains and commodores will do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

When sailors break the rules ship's captains have adequate powers of punishment; if breaches of discipline are rare, as I'm guessing they are, it is none of the media's business and the correct reaction when a reporter asks is to say "fuck off, rude message follows" "this matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the chain of command by the Code of Service Discipline; when sailors make mistakes _corrective measures_ are available and are used." If there are too many breaches then commodores and admirals need to look at how they select captains and coxsains and, probably, at the captain and coxswain of the ships having the problems.

Discipline matters, it is what sets sailors (and soldiers) apart from thugs; but so does morale and commanders must recognize that the two go hand in hand; _"sailors being sailors,"_ *every now and again*, is, probably, a fairly healthy thing that tells commanders that the constant trade offs that are characteristic of getting (any) people to do (any) things are in balance. Too many incidents may tell us that something is wrong, maybe leadership, maybe taskings ... but I would suggest that a Navy or Army full of "Goody two-shoes" types cannot cope with the real stresses and strains of battle.


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## Journeyman (14 Oct 2012)

MilPoints enroute!


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## jollyjacktar (14 Oct 2012)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Agreed...sadly morale is being eroded more and more with each day and nothing is being done to stop it. :/


I'll add another morale killer is the coming penny pinching.  That will and has crossed all lines, arms and branches of the CF.  Right now for the Fleet what is killing morale for the HFX, CAL and soon FRE is the lack of sea pay upon coming out of the yard.  I know, I know sea pay and duty watches are not "connected", however, the guys are cheesed at standing frequent watches and doing all the extra work that comes with coming out of refit without the previous benefits of return of sea pay.  Especially when HFX and CAL have been out of their respective yards since June and there's no end in sight.

There are some other issues as well, but I won't speak of them in public.  Excellent post BTW E.R.


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## Pat in Halifax (14 Oct 2012)

I too applaud your post ER. Maybe you should send it off to CBC...or maybe not.
An awful lot of thought provoking prose there for sure.

Pat


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## The Bread Guy (14 Oct 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I'll add another morale killer is the coming penny pinching ....


C'mon, you military guys get banners and pins, you get name changes, you get fancy stuff on the sleeves - not enough?  :sarcasm:


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## jollyjacktar (14 Oct 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> C'mon, you military guys get banners and pins, you get name changes, you get fancy stuff on the sleeves - not enough?  :sarcasm:


I don't care how pretty you make my war of 1812 or SSI pins look, I still want my sea pay back when my ship comes out as has always been done before.   If it makes it easier, I'll even give back the 1812 pin (still new in the bag) and it can go back to the dollar store :nod:
(sarcasm noted milnews. )


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## The Bread Guy (14 Oct 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I don't care how pretty you make my war of 1812 or SSI pins look, I still want my sea pay back when my ship comes out as has always been done before.   If it makes it easier, I'll even give back the 1812 pin (still new in the bag) and it can go back to the dollar store :nod:
> (sarcasm noted milnews. )


I'm guessing you're far from alone.


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## Stoker (14 Oct 2012)

Just came back from a east coast and a lakes trip that involved the war of 1812, most ports were packed with sailors and ships. There was a lot of playing hard and kicking up your heels and this was encouraged in each port.  The amount of support and thanks we were given by US citizens were embarrassing. Nobody got hurt and you were encouraged to flag down a cop if you needed a run back to the ship. Yes there were a few charges but they were the exception not the rule.


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## aesop081 (14 Oct 2012)

My last visit to key West ( September last year) serves as an example that "letting loose" is not in any danger. This was a non-news story by a 4th rate organization and some here are reading too much into it. "Work hard, play hard" is alive and well in the RCAF at least.

If the RCN wants to investigate stuff like this as if it was a capital crime, i would not be surprised however.


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## OldSolduer (14 Oct 2012)

Excuse me here, but we have leadership that preaches risk avoidance and the wholesale banning of anything that may cause the leadership to look bad.

For instance, we were told that our soldier could not wear DEU downtown on Remembrance Day, and had to ask permission to wear DEU to weddings  etc.

What a crock of cramp that is. My first edict as RSM was to ban the wholesale banning of wearing DEUs downtown. I encourage it  and will hold those who misbehave accountable using the Code of Service Discipline.


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## FSTO (14 Oct 2012)

With regards to the RCN of work hard and don't you dare play. Last APS and moves to Ottawa may have alleviated that issue.


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## aesop081 (14 Oct 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> For instance, we were told that our soldier could not wear DEU downtown on Remembrance Day, and had to ask permission to wear DEU to weddings  etc.



With respect Jim, this is not a CF-wide issue. I have never served in a CoC that directed soldiers not to wear DEU downtown on Nov 11th. This sounds like a localized decision and is not CF policy.

For the last decade, i have not served in a "risk averse" CoC that wholesale banned "fun".

Some of you folks here seem to be looking for institutional problems where there are none.


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## jollyjacktar (15 Oct 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Some of you folks here seem to be looking for institutional problems where there are none.


That may be true of the Zoomie world, but in my world the "fun aversion"  has most definitely been creeping up more and more in my time with the Fleet.  That goes from unit to unit too, with the exception that some flinching has been more pronounced between ships.

It's been a death by a thousand cuts.  Little things, such as sliders going away etc as directed by the Admiral.  Every little bit helps to kill morale.  If you guys in the Air Force are happy, that's fantastic and I'm honestly happy for you guys.  Someone should be happy out there...

And to milnews, you're correct.  I'm far from alone on that one.  Soon there will be at least three to four or more ships companies that will all be pissed about sea pay issues coming out of refit.  I've yet to hear one person support the decision or the reasoning behind it beyond announcing it at hands fall in (and behind closed doors I'm sure they aren't happy either).


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## fraserdw (15 Oct 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Excuse me here, but we have leadership that preaches risk avoidance and the wholesale banning of anything that may cause the leadership to look bad.
> 
> For instance, we were told that our soldier could not wear DEU downtown on Remembrance Day, and had to ask permission to wear DEU to weddings  etc.



Ahhhh yes, the 80s, no uniforms to and from work, no uniforms on appointments and my favorite, while in 2PPCLI, no combat uniforms allowed in the pay office on the Air force side of CFB Winnipeg (unless you are a scruff from the flight line).


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## OldSolduer (15 Oct 2012)

fraserdw said:
			
		

> Ahhhh yes, the 80s, no uniforms to and from work, no uniforms on appointments and my favorite, while in 2PPCLI, no combat uniforms allowed in the pay office on the Air force side of CFB Winnipeg (unless you are a scruff from the flight line).



I remember those days in 2 VP.


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## Edward Campbell (15 Oct 2012)

In fairness, back in the '60s and '70s decisions were taken on when/what to wear based on a generally accepted goal of presenting a smart, _uniform_ public image. Thus both combat uniforms and "work dress" were _verboten_ except - in most units - to drive, *non-stop!*, to and from unit lines.

I recall many, many attempts to make work dress look smart enough to be worn as a 'uniform' ~ dickies, trousers bloused over polished combat boots, web belts, etc ~ none worked.

The "answer" was CF "garrison dress," also gussied up with buttons and bows ~ that's been discussed at length here on Army.ca.

The current policy is to make CADPAT combat uniforms/battledress into "garrison" and even "office" dress. I'm guessing many RSMs are not amused.


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## Popurhedoff (15 Oct 2012)

I remember some of the best times I had in the military was when I was assigned to the ships... dam those sailors knew how to throw some good parties and some pretty good antics. Harmless as it was, I am sure it would not be approved of today.

And not once did I get pregnant!!!

Cheers
Pop


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## jollyjacktar (15 Oct 2012)

Popurhedoff said:
			
		

> And not once did I get pregnant!!!


You weren't trying hard enough.


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## Journeyman (15 Oct 2012)

Popurhedoff said:
			
		

> And not once did I get pregnant!!!


Well, Churchill did supposedly say that "Naval tradition was nothing but rum, _sodomy_, and the lash."


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## fraserdw (15 Oct 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> In fairness, back in the '60s and '70s decisions were taken on when/what to wear based on a generally accepted goal of presenting a smart, _uniform_ public image. Thus both combat uniforms and "work dress" were _verboten_ except - in most units - to drive, *non-stop!*, to and from unit lines.



Having worked in Ottawa in 93/94, there were alot of interesting DEU fashion statements walking around Sparks Street at lunchtime that would have benefited from wearing combats.


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## OldSolduer (16 Oct 2012)

We had those silly rules in place in the 80s but we routinely ignored them. The St James Hotel in Winnipeg can attest to that.


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## fraserdw (16 Oct 2012)

Ohhhh my God, I had almost forgotten about that place!


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## OldSolduer (16 Oct 2012)

fraserdw said:
			
		

> Ohhhh my God, I had almost forgotten about that place!



It was the MCpls' from Cbt Sp 2 VP who routinely inhabited the place.


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## fraserdw (16 Oct 2012)

I was not a regular, but things we did there in around the general area...good times but none of my ex wives must ever know.


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## OldSolduer (16 Oct 2012)

fraserdw said:
			
		

> I was not a regular, but things we did there in around the general area...good times but none of my ex wives must ever know.



Then we've run into each other at some point.


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## fraserdw (16 Oct 2012)

Probably, I was Charlie Company 82 to 84, then off the Schl in Gagetown.  I loved Winnipeg and miss it still.


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## Journeyman (16 Oct 2012)

fraserdw said:
			
		

> I loved Winnipeg and miss it still.


There are even songs about it.   :nod:


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## Navy_Blue (23 Oct 2012)

Like it or not we are standing in front of a slow deliberate steam roller of change.  One of the leading and most prominent issues is our health and the publics view of it.  Our drinking as little as a beer or two after supper at night (at home!!) is considered “hazardous drinking” if we do it more than a few times a week.  Let me add that I pass my express test exempt every year.  I am not over weight nor do I consider myself to be abusing any substance.  I might go through 36 beer a month (I’m cheap).  I find it very hard to have people paint me with the same brush as people forced to attend fat camp to pass an express test or get a DWI ever other month.

It is more or less a temperance movement.  In the last few years our Code of service discipline has changed forcing units to send all incidents involving drugs and alcohol to Ottawa.  Once reviewed the offending party is put on CMP.  I would like to know how many of the incidents mentioned in the report would fall into this category.  In the past these people could be given birds and extra duties for a few days in the next port.  Now you come back tipsy and your career is on the line.  

I know the steam roller is coming.  I know I can’t stop it.  I just can’t decide if I want to get out of the way.


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## krustyrl (23 Oct 2012)

> Let me add that I pass my express test exempt every year.  I am not over weight nor do I consider myself to be abusing any substance.  I might go through 36 beer a month (I’m cheap).  I find it very hard to have people paint me with the same brush as people forced to attend fat camp to pass an express test or get a DWI ever other month.



Interesting way of describing yourself...  IMHO you "paint" yourself to be of *perfect* persuasion.!  I bet if one was to ask...you must be a legend.?


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## Navy_Blue (23 Oct 2012)

> Interesting way of describing yourself...  IMHO you "paint" yourself to be of perfect persuasion.!  I bet if one was to ask...you must be a legend.?



There is nothing perfect about me.  I am however a person who can have one or two beer and call it quits.  I have never even experimented with hard drugs.  I show up at work every day sober and eager to get things on the go so I can get my butt home to my family.  I'm a volunteer fire fighter so its more important on that side of the fence I stay fit because again I don't want to die and not come home to my family.  My last real house fire was new years and I was looking around the smoke and flame exhausted thinking how crappy it would be if I died tonight.

The thing that upsets me about all this is I have become accustomed to the privileges granted to me in the Navy.  I have been a good boy and kept an eye on the guys working for me so that I could maintain these privileges.  To have some admiral in the upper brass say that my contribution isn't good enough and make me go to the gym and take away my beer and my time is completely demoralizing.

You can say "the problem is the people who can't do that."   Yep it is and you can fire them out on the street.  Instead we "rehabilitate" them promote them and then they take to task rehabilitating the rest of us.  

I'm angry now so I will stop this and go on my forced circuit training tomorow to blow off the high pressure steam.   :threat:


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## Kat Stevens (23 Oct 2012)

krustyrl said:
			
		

> Interesting way of describing yourself...  IMHO you "paint" yourself to be of *perfect* persuasion.!  I bet if one was to ask...you must be a legend.?



Sorry, but I gotta throw an offside flag on this one.  He said nothing about being perfect, just that he likes to do his best to keep his poop in a group.  How did you read a claim of perfection in that?


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## krustyrl (23 Oct 2012)

> He said nothing about being perfect, just that he likes to do his best to keep his poop in a group.



Correct, he did not say that he was perfect. While I applaud Navy_Blue on his personal efforts, the comment referring to those who have to attend remedial pt or Fit D and or those that may have a problem with substances have been identified and their shortcomings at that point have been addressed and they are trying to overcome said shortcomings.  I guess I see the good in people in their efforts to better themselves through remedial PT be it forced or on their own accord, many of them do not choose to have a problem with passing the CFExpres no matter how easy some say it is.  

Just my opinion and stand by it...


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## Navy_Blue (24 Oct 2012)

I like to see the good in people and do what ever I can to help people improve or maintain there health both physical and mental.  We all signed the dotted line and were explained that there is an expectation in this outfit we stay fit and stay out of drugs.  If we get into trouble with booze the CF will go above and beyond to help those people.  

So my first point of fitness.  It shocks me that PT tests sneak up on a large number of people every year that knew from the year before they where on the line.  The excuse that they don’t give me time at work or I sailed all year is not really valid.  There are ways, not ideal ways to stay fit at sea and I have seen people come back from long trips more fit than when they left (I do not include Subs in this statement…completely different animal).  If you work ashore and are worried and know you will have a hard time passing your test you need to start working at home all year not a week before your test.  If you are in your 20’s and 30’s and can’t pass the minimum standard for no other medical reason than being over weight you need to look at if this is the best way for you to earn a living.  For me I’m fit and adding an expectation that I show up an hour earlier to do PT is punishment.  They have already curtailed our sliders which made up for things like this.  In my line of work most MSE and CSE techs are committing 60+ hours per week with no weekends and very few days to get the time back.

Drugs is a no brainer right?  Well it takes years to punt our worst offenders.  I’m not talking about guys with PTSD or mental health issues.  The ones I am suggesting are new members who live in barracks and deal drugs and pimp out women.  It’s happened the last few years!!  They need to be gone ASAP.  In those cases jail.  For the users…we signed the line to keep our nose clean.  If they are caught charge them put them in civi’s and on EI give them access to outside mental health and line up basic vocational training so they at least have a job when they get booted.  If you don’t do that they stay in uniform and infect our newest people while they go through the process.  If you don’t at least line them up work or training they will spend our tax money in our prison system.  

Now the reason this thread started.  I agree if drinking becomes a problem for any member council them, if necessary discipline, rehab and hopefully carry on and lead productive lives and careers.  My problem arises from people who do this and then get preachy and think you are just like them and need to be saved.  I can respect the fact that they are recovered and may not partake in mess functions but it is an opportunity to support there people and offer to be DD’s or bar tend.  If it is a problem to be around it then take a step back and be there to catch people when they fall.  Just don’t be pushing them over so you can catch them.  With the way things are now it is out of the units hands and it all goes to Ottawa to be reviewed.  If you get a DUI or show up to work trashed you need help.  If you go out on the town in port and wake up with your file going to Ottawa because you where carried home from the bar that’s excessive.  Its not like that everywhere and it comes and goes in waves but from what I have heard from the tanker it was not pretty.


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## krustyrl (24 Oct 2012)

Agreed.... :goodpost:


No harm ...no foul.!


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## garb811 (24 Oct 2012)

Navy_Blue said:
			
		

> In the last few years our Code of service discipline has changed forcing units to send all incidents involving drugs and alcohol to Ottawa.


The Code of Service Discipline on this has not changed, Drunkenness is still Drunkenness.  It is the Administrative Order and Directive that is catching people for Alcohol Misconduct and causing the subsequent report to DMCA with all that entails.


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## Edward Campbell (24 Oct 2012)

I just heard a report on another matter: former DND and now Ontario Ombudsman André Marin blasted the OPP for treating his suggestions about helping people with stress related illnesses, PTSD etc, as a public relations problem rather than as a serious _operational_ matter. I agree with Marin but I have some sympathy for the OPP and for the CF leadership who do the same thing.

The modern media - with an absolutely insatiable 24 hour news _machine_ which must be fed - digs deeper and deeper for 'news' and when it cannot find anything important upon which to report it _manufactures controversy_ and tries to link it to a public figure. The senior bureaucracy has become obsessed with "not embarrassing the minister" and, very often, that involves trying to prevent "bad press." The sort of _administrative_ measures that we see in relation to e.g. occasional incidents of _"sailors being sailors"_ - measures which are appropriate for CF members who habitually abuse alcohol, for example - are, in fact, _defensive_ measures taken by bureaucrats so that, inevitably, when "sailors are being sailors" the MND's press secretary can say "we don't tolerate bad behaviour and have a procedure to deal with it and it's being applied right now." It, overreaction, is a classic bureaucratic response to any and all matters it doesn't understand.


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## OldSolduer (24 Oct 2012)

garb811 said:
			
		

> The Code of Service Discipline on this has not changed, Drunkenness is still Drunkenness.  It is the Administrative Order and Directive that is catching people for Alcohol Misconduct and causing the subsequent report to DMCA with all that entails.




Sir , you are correct in that assessment. DAODs do spell out what happens with ARIs.


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## jollyjacktar (4 Nov 2012)

And here we have a case of Sailors being Sailors in the USN.  They don't like too much fun being had in foreign ports too apparently.  



> *Navy removes ship's command after boozy port visit*
> 
> SAN DIEGO (AP) -- The commander and top officers of a San Diego-based Navy frigate have been relieved of duty after a rowdy, booze-fueled port visit to Vladivostok, Russia.  Cmdr. Joseph E. Darlak, skipper of the USS Vandegrift, was removed Friday by Capt. John L. Schultz after an investigation "due to loss of confidence after demonstrating poor leadership and failure to ensure the proper conduct of his wardroom officers" during the three-day September stop, the Navy said in a statement.
> 
> ...


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## Pat in Halifax (4 Nov 2012)

Oh my. It is a new world where camera phones reign supreme. The days of staggerring around a foreign port are gone with the expectation of 'being ambassadors' more the norm than the exception. This is good and I know that tours etc are aranged now where they weren't when I joined years ago. The ports were quite often s***holes or atleast in areas of cities where no one would normally visit-quite simply put, drinking was the alternative to boredom. Habits don't fade and this sometimes is still the practice. I know all sailors on here will know someone who may not even have left the ship while in a foreign port. I remember a cetain individual who used to pay someone to pick up postcards. He would then sit in the mess (drinking...of course), write them out and pay someone to go ashore the next day to post them.
I suppose much of what you see and hear of sailors doing is no worse than some of the Saturday morning police blotters of any city - we are, after all, a cross section of society. The problem, and we all must understand this, is that we are held in the public eye above the rest of society meaning we must think more before we do something and must ask ourselves "If this were being filmed right now, would it be embarrassing to me and to the CF?" That said, thoughts are generally fogged after a dozen beer- which is why we generally travel in groups, to look out for one another. This, unfortunatley fails to work all the time too.
These stories will continue and the hope is that we learn, carry on and hope that no long term damage is done to the respect we hold in the eyes of Canadians.

Pat


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## Journeyman (4 Nov 2012)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> ...... must ask ourselves "If this were being filmed right now.....


I often think that; it makes my....._performance_....that much better.    >


Oh, and for background music, play live concerts.....the periodic applause is awesome.   :nod:



[/tangent]  ;D


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