# Popularity amongst AVN/AVS tech's for ship postings



## hourclock (26 Nov 2006)

What's the competition like for those who want to posted to a ship as an ANV/AVS tech?  I'm transferring into one or the other from a hard sea trade (Bosn), so I've grown rather accustomed to sailing.  Are the postings in Shearwater/Comox highly desired postings; or will my chances of being posted there be good, considering my naval experience?  What about the frequency of deployments onboard ship?  Are they far and few between, meaning alot of time working ashore, or can one be attached-posted, let's say, once a year for 6 months at a time?  Also, I heard the Sea-Kings were being replaced with another helicopter, anyone know if that'll happen by the time I get to my type course?  I heard they were going to extend the hangars on the frigates by a few feet.  But that was just hearsay.  Thanks in advance.
-Cheers


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## aesop081 (26 Nov 2006)

hourclock said:
			
		

> What's the competition like for those who want to posted to a ship as an ANV/AVS tech?  I'm transferring into one or the other from a hard sea trade (Bosn), so I've grown rather accustomed to sailing.  Are the postings in Shearwater/Comox highly desired postings; or will my chances of being posted there be good, considering my naval experience?  What about the frequency of deployments onboard ship?  Are they far and few between, meaning alot of time working ashore, or can one be attached-posted, let's say, once a year for 6 months at a time?  Also, I heard the Sea-Kings were being replaced with another helicopter, anyone know if that'll happen by the time I get to my type course?  I heard they were going to extend the hangars on the frigates by a few feet.  But that was just hearsay.  Thanks in advance.
> -Cheers



Techs in Comox do not go to sea.  We fly CP-140 Aurora from that base as well as CC-115 Buffalo and CH-149 Cormorant

West coast Ship-borne helos are based in Patricia bay ( basicaly the Victoria airport). Techs there are posted to 443 sqn and deploy to the ships when an air detachement goes to sea.  They are not with the ship unless a helo is at sea. Yes, the CH-124 is being replaced and the first one is set to arrive in Shearwater in November 2008 IIRC.


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## navymich (26 Nov 2006)

For the west coast, for the chance to go to sea, you would need to be posted to Pat Bay.  This is located just past Victoria Airport.  I am not sure how it works in Shearwater, but from a recent tour1 at Pat Bay, I learned that all personnel are split into groups by ship.  Therefore, you are designated as to which ship you "belong" to.  When that ship embarks the airdet, you would sail.  Could be 6 months for the year, could be nothing for the year (if the ship is in drydock for example) or could be a week or month here and there.

Here is a link that you can check out: http://www.airforce.forces.ca/12wing/about_us/index_e.asp




1. by "tour" I don't mean a posting there, but rather a guided tour for the day to see how things worked and for a nifty famil flight too!


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## aesop081 (26 Nov 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> For the west coast, for the chance to go to sea, you would need to be posted to Pat Bay.  This is located just past Victoria Airport.  I am not sure how it works in Shearwater, but from a recent tour at Pat Bay, I learned that all personnel are split into groups by ship.  Therefore, you are designated as to which ship you "belong" to.  When that ship embarks the airdet, you would sail.  Could be 6 months for the year, could be nothing for the year (if the ship is in drydock for example) or could be a week or month here and there.
> 
> Here is a link that you can check out: http://www.airforce.forces.ca/12wing/about_us/index_e.asp



Mich, from what i have been told by the boys at work.....there are not enough Dets to assign one for each ship.  Some of my buddys would get home from a cruise on HMCS XXXXXX and as soon as they got back, embark on HMCS YYYY.......


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## navymich (26 Nov 2006)

Thank you for the update cdnaviator.  That info hadn't been passed on to me when I was there.  Guess it only makes sense though with the number of Dets vs. the number of ships.


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## h3tacco (26 Nov 2006)

Just to add a couple points. I would say if anything shearwater or pat bay are less popular than other postings because of the fact that you have to go to sea. To go to sea as an avn/avs you must be a fully qualified tech (I believe referred to as level 3 signing authority) which usually takes about 3 years to gain. In shearwater once you were eligible to go to sea you were given a two year period of sailing. Most of the techs I know (though not all) wanted to do the two years and then get off the ship as quickly as possible. During that two years, depending on the schedule you may sail a lot or a little and it will generally include one longer deployment (ie 4 to 6 months). Three-fours years back dets were sailing slightly more than the navy guys, albeit for only two year stints. Though I don't know for sure, I would think if you wanted to sail more than two years you could volunteer but usually guys go do something else on the base for a couple years before returning  sailing portion. This is specific to the techs. Aircrew generally do four - five year tours at the op sqns 423 or 443 before moving on to a non-sea going billet for another four - five years.


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## hourclock (26 Nov 2006)

Right on, glad to hear it.  In essence, I could keep volunteering and have no problem sticking around Pat Bay/Shearwater.  When should I make it obvious I want to work on ship-borne aircraft?  I read somewhere that it's 60/40 AVN/AVS that sail; but seeing as the pickings are slim, I should'nt have a problem going either/or I'd imagine.  I'm on the fence with these two.  I have my interview in 3 days, and I can't make up my mind as to which I should go in 'extra enthusiastic' about.  At any rate.  Thanks for the info.


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## bison33 (26 Nov 2006)

I had a whole bunch of stuff typed for you hour when my *&%%$$% computer decided to do it's own thing. Anyways......Being a fishy has no bearing on your new career. The career mangler will post you where needed the most (Ever been to north eastern Alberta??...hahaha, kidding, sort of) but either place is not high on many techs dream posting. I was in PatBay when I was an AVN tech so I may be able to answer some of your questions. The sailing tempo for a tech on the wet coast is more so than the east, only because Shearwater has a bigger pool to draw from, not PatBay. Now, once you decide on your trade, off to Borden for eons, you'll leave there for whatever unit, do about 2 years or so before going on a type course, get some signing authority (POM) and after another 2 years from that(time frames are not bang on), should start getting signed off level A. As an unqualified type (PatBay anyways), you can get on a ship for a short sail (like an ORO course as an example) just to get a feel of what an AirDet does. After getting POM, a good chance you'll end up on a det. Jetty jumping is (was anyways) not uncommon in PatBay, meaning you could be AP to the Winnipeg, then be AP'd to the Regina then to the Protecteur. But the tempo has let up (after I left) but you could expect to be on a ship a couple of years after finishing in Borden. Shearwater is a different story. And yes, the hangars on the frigates will be modified as the new helo is about 4 metres longer than the SeaPig. Anything else, ask away.........


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## Baz (27 Nov 2006)

"I heard they were going to extend the hangars on the frigates by a few feet.  But that was just hearsay."

"And yes, the hangars on the frigates will be modified as the new helo is about 4 metres longer than the SeaPig."

Actually neither are correct.  The Sea King Folded is 47ft2.5in long, 14ft7in wide, and 16ft high (ref C-12-124-A00-MB-000 Aircraft Operating Instruction).  The Cyclone folded is 47ft2in long (a smidgeon shorter), 15ft6in wide, and 15ft5in high (CH148 Famil course).  The hangar will not be extended (I have the design drawing for it).   The main changes to the hangar and flight deck are:
- replace the trap with a new low profile trap, and add a nose wheel tray
- move the tail guide winches forward and remove the tail probe fish tail
- redo the line up lines
- change the lighting for NVG compatibility
- offset the aircraft about 18"left when trapped and aligned, because of the tail fold to the right extends past the sponspon
- redo a bunch of cranes, servicing platforms, etc, in the hangar
- a bunch of new cabinets, computers, displays, etc in the air spaces

All this would have to be done whatever aircraft was going in there, *but the Cyclone definitely fits!*

As a point of reference, rotors running the Sea King is 72ft7in long by 62ft wide; the Cyclone 68ft6in long by 57ft4in.  We have the design drawings for the Cyclone trapped on deck and there is not a lot of difference.  The big difference is weight -the Sea King Max all Up is 20,500lbs, vs 28,650lbs for the Cyclone.

We are continuously trying to dispel these romours that have (incorrectly) been around for a long time (the EH101 fit as well), but they just keep coming back.


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## SeaKingTacco (27 Nov 2006)

....and since Baz has pretty much memorized the SOR for the Cyclone- he wins.


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## bison33 (27 Nov 2006)

bows to the knowledgeable Baz, well waves at him..........and my excuse, I've been out of naval air for 3 years


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## Popurhedoff (27 Nov 2006)

I did two postings to Shearwater so far.  If you wish to stay on Seakings it should not be a problem.  Good Luck and have fun.

Cheers
Pop


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## hourclock (1 Dec 2006)

OK guys/gals, it's all done!  I appreciate everything you've added to the post as it helped me make up my mind and convince those who interviewed me that I'm the right kind of stuff for AVN.  I've got everything done for the CT.  I was 'Highly Recommended".. I like that.  I was also told that I may have to do Basic all over again.. I don't like that..  It's a maybe though, so we'll see what happens.  I heard they added a combat phase to BMQ that everyone off the street has to complete.  I think they have to serve as ground pounders for 2 years before they can transfer in to whatever trade they want.  Although not my case, I still don't want to have to do Basic all over.  At any rate.  It'll be another 4 month's before I go on course, that's if I don't redo basic, or sometime in January if I do.  Let's say I don't, it'd have been 8 months for this transfer to go through.  I think I can hear the echo of the recruiting officer saying something about it taking less than a month for everything to process...  Yep, there it is again.  Thank goodness for savings..  Now that I have everything in order, I'm free to go wherever with no need to stay behind for appointments.  I already put in a request for bunk space come January.  The Reg Force will take priority over any employment with the Reserves, so everything is in place and should work fine.  Thanks again for all the info posted.  I would gladly do the same for any questions you have.

-Cheers

A little after thought.  I was talking to an ex-res to reg, back to res friend of mine, and he was suggesting that it would better for me to attend Basic all over again.  I think there might be some truth in that, whereas I'd be meeting fellow course mates most likely and have a better chance of getting along with everyone.  I wouldn't want to walk in as the guy who skipped basic cause he was a reservist.  If you get my point...  Do you think that mentallity is still very prevailant?  Let me know what you think.  Thanks.


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## glenndon (1 Dec 2006)

I did a CT from the reserves to the reg force in Oct 01.

I didn't redo basic training.  I signed the dotted line 3 days before my POET started.  Everyone on POET were from all different backgrounds . . . whether brand new from Basic Training, OT's from Artillery/Combat Engineers, or CT's like me.  None of the people on my  course were on the same basic with anyone else on course that I can remember.  Then I did my QL3 LCIS course, with only a couple people from my original POET.  

Basic training in the reg force is usually a mixture of people all going different trades.  You won't necessarily be on the same 'track' as everyone else in your platoon.

So basically do what you likeif you are worried about being 'the reservist who skipped reg force basic'.  If you want to spend 14 weeks doing basic all over, go for it, otherwise find employment in the reserves until your AVN course starts. . .  class b is one for one towards pay etc. . .  anyways in the reg force.  You will stand on your own merits as to whether you are a good soldier or not in the long run, not just if you went on a reg force basic, or started out as a reservist.

Glenn


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## hourclock (1 Dec 2006)

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.  Was kind of a giddy question I suppose.  I've got a Class B contract lined up for the new year already.  I'd rather not have to do basic all over again, but if they say I have to then so be it.  How long after your interview had they called you to sign?


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## Inch (3 Dec 2006)

Baz said:
			
		

> "I heard they were going to extend the hangars on the frigates by a few feet.  But that was just hearsay."
> 
> "And yes, the hangars on the frigates will be modified as the new helo is about 4 metres longer than the SeaPig."
> 
> ...



Hi Baz,

I agree with your overall assessment, however, a few of your Sea King numbers are incorrect. From page 1-1-15 of the AOI, the width of the the Sea King is 16' 3" at the widest point folded, ie. the sponsons, the 14' 7" is the width of the folded blades and it's approx based on the head pressure. Folded length is 47' 9.5" and by the diagram, that length doesn't look like it includes the FLIR mount which would add another foot or so to the folded length.

That's all, fly shit out of pepper I know... How's Shearwater? I'm told to be glad I'm at sea!


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## Baz (6 Dec 2006)

Oops, I stand corrected... my Sea King AOI was the PDF version so it was hard to pick of.  But in any case the dimensions for the Sea King are larger than I stated so the Cyclone still fits.

On a larger note, I do apologize if I came across as lecturing.  There are enough issues we are dealing with right now, so I was just trying to put to bed a lingering rumour (and yes, this issue has come up in semi-official meetings).  At least until it comes up again...

Shearwater is Shearwater, be nice if they would pave the street before it is completely frozen.  Personnaly, I'm still excited about where we are going in the next couple of years, but those issues still need dealing with...  I am gettting lots of hours on Air Canada to Ottawa and Mirabel, which will have to make due until we have a bird I'm allowed to fly in.  The shiny new is starting to be something you can touch, and it will certainly be a leap from the Sea King.


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## bison33 (7 Dec 2006)

Soup at 10 everyday. ;D

 AVN/AVS techs should be beating each other for the chance to sail.


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## SnakeTech (8 Dec 2006)

bison33 said:
			
		

> AVN/AVS techs should be beating each other for the chance to sail.



Not me, but looks like I may be headed that way this APS  :'(


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## bison33 (9 Dec 2006)

SnakeTech said:
			
		

> Not me, but looks like I may be headed that way this APS  :'(



It's not that bad.....but after Comox, I guess any posting would seem that way. You headed down island or to Shearwater?


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## SnakeTech (11 Dec 2006)

bison33 said:
			
		

> It's not that bad.....but after Comox, I guess any posting would seem that way. You headed down island or to Shearwater?



Heading south so far, but no message yet.  One never knows though when it comes to CM's. All I know for now is that I'm posted out of Comox APS 07.


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## hourclock (11 Feb 2007)

Good news.. Finally got the transfer for AVN.  In Borden mid-March!  Best thing is that the day before I leave, I get to attend my previous unit's mess dinner but in an Air Force get up.  lol, any traditions I should know about?


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## pteosborne (28 Sep 2007)

Borden is beautiful, CFSATE.....not so much, as a student anyway.
hourclock I hope your drill is up to par  ;D


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