# Ex-serviceman risks eviction by flying Canadian flag on balcony



## larry Strong (14 Jul 2008)

I just found this on the CBC news site. This is a real shame.

Reproduced in accordance with the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act



> Ex-serviceman risks eviction by flying Canadian flag on balcony
> Eastern Ontario housing authority wants flag removed
> Last Updated: Monday, July 14, 2008 | 4:12 PM ET Comments57Recommend84CBC News
> Mark Murray flies this flag in support of troops and their families. (CBC)An ex-serviceman refuses to take down the Canadian flag on his balcony in a subsidized housing unit in Cardinal, Ont., even though the local housing authority is threatening to evict him.
> ...


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## Scoobie Newbie (14 Jul 2008)

When I lived in the shacks we weren't allowed to have any flags up either.

Including the Canadian flag.


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## Strike (14 Jul 2008)

Same for me in the apartment I lived in in Dartmouth.  We may not agree with it, but it's not uncommon for housing agencies/landlords to have such regs.


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## danchapps (15 Jul 2008)

I'm afraid I have to side with Mr. Murray on this one. Actually, I'm not afraid of siding with him, I support his choice. There should be some leeway on these sorts of issues, and I give him credit for sticking to his guns. I may be "new" to the Army, but I appreciate his dedication. I hope it works out well for him.


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## Niteshade (15 Jul 2008)

Funny. 

I work as a property manager and one of my duties is to manage our legal and account portfolio's.

The N5 mentioned (Notice to terminate a tenancy early) can only be issued for 3 criteria:

1. Your, or a guest, willfully damaged the rental unit of complex

2. You, or a guest, substantially interfered with the reasonable enjoyment of another tenant OR the lawful right or privilege of another tenant

3. The number of people living in the unit is more than that permitted by health/safety/fire standards.

Nowhere does flying a flag affect any of the above unless someone is complaining it offends them or something of like - and even then it is not a substantial interference.

Secondly, the housing complex needs to take him to a board hearing under an L2 application which is restricted under the aforementioned N5....

Thirdly, and only if this guy presents his case very very poorly will he actually get evicted. If this guy makes sure the media is at each of these hearings, there is no way in hell a board will issue an order instructing him to remove the flag or move out.

This is laughable.

It is insulting.

Here. call them up like I will be doing first thing tomorrow morning:

http://www.uclg.ca/en/contact_us/index.asp

Express your disent.

Nites


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## karl28 (15 Jul 2008)

Flying your national flag as long as it is done respectfully should not create this kind of problem .   It's a Damn shame that Mr. Murray  has to go through this at all .   I hope that it works out for him in the long run .


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## fire_guy686 (15 Jul 2008)

I hope Mr.Murray sticks to his guns and keeps his flag up. I'm sure no judge or committee will evict a person simply because of this. If they do it will truly show how sad this world has come to that someone cannot proudly fly their national flag. If they want to make him remove his flag, I hope they make those who have flower pots on their balcony's or anything that is not uniform with the rest remove it. I would put money on the fact that if you walk by this building you would see some balcony's lined with flower pots. It *ALL* has to be uniform right???

This is such a joke.


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## retiredgrunt45 (15 Jul 2008)

I have a flag flying in my backyard of my rental housing complex in London ontario and i have never been asked to take it down. Its been up since our men and women went to Afghanistan and its staying up until they all come home.

 Stick to your guns Mr. Murray and don't let a few malcontents tell you otherwise.


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## axeman (15 Jul 2008)

If that was me I'd be gettting a  lawyer . the flag would be flying , Oh Canada would be played at 0800 daily, if i could find a safe fireing direction  a One gun salute every now and then ...


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## 1feral1 (15 Jul 2008)

Greetings to all of our happy valued guests and devoted members.

Any of my neighbours can fly the national flag any day without complaint from me.  I fly one in my back yard too, in fact both are openly displayed.

I and others have served under two.

Whether its the ANF here, or the 'maple leaf', back in dear ole Canada.

When is it a crime to be patriotic?

Happy days,

OWDU


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (15 Jul 2008)

"He was told the flag violates a rule requiring all subsidized properties to have a uniform appearance."



If this is the case I would love to see ALL his neighbors flying the Canadian flag.   Then they would all be uniform.   ;D  
If I was asked to take my flag down, I sure as hell would be on the phone, email, whatever it took to keep it flying.
As Peter Griffin would say "That really grinds my gears"


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## retiredgrunt45 (15 Jul 2008)

> if i could find a safe fireing direction a One gun salute every now and then ...



Carefull now Axeman, you could have the anti-gun panzies at your doorstep next.  



> If this is the case I would love to see ALL his neighbors flying the Canadian flag.   Then they would all be uniform.
> If I was asked to take my flag down, I sure as hell would be on the phone, email, whatever it took to keep it flying.
> As Peter Griffin would say "That really grinds my gears"



That's not a bad idea, then I wonder what they would say to save face. Wankers!

Look at it this way, these people have nothing better to do but waste our money by siting in their little insignificant offices all day coming up with pathetic excuses like this to justify their jobs. Just another example of bureaucracy at its very worst.


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## armyvern (15 Jul 2008)

OK, where's our guys who are so apt at creating petitions?

I think it'd be great for Mr Murray to have a whole bunch of signatures of support to take into his hearing with him as well.

You know, something to liven the place up. Make it interesting; initiative, originality, and gawd-forbid to add some colour to that big grey world of his that is "how it has to be". Small steps.

The entire problem with this situation is (and this is why every single one of us can pick out these areas as soon as we drive into them):



> He was told the flag violates a rule requiring all subsidized properties to have a uniform appearance.



Nothing at all like rules telling a whole group of people they are mandated to be he same, remain the same, never grow. Awesome way to enforce the "you will always be what you are now and will never amount to much more - never attempt to do so, and never attempt to express yourself because who will you be kidding?" - Conform to our grey, bleak vision of you. Pretty freakin' sad actually.


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## CBH99 (15 Jul 2008)

So let me make sure I've got this straight....

Some pencilneck little prick has NOTHING BETTER TO DO than sit there in his office - and threaten a former service member with eviction, for flying the Canadian flag??

I don't mean to sound crude or violent or immature.....but damn I wish we had some form of population control out there!!

Flying a Canadian flag is a matter of pride -- this man should be respected for his decision to fly our flag, not threatened with eviction.  The housing authority needs to pull their heads' out of their arses.

Just my .02


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## Michael OLeary (15 Jul 2008)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> Some pencilneck little prick has NOTHING BETTER TO DO than sit there in his office - and threaten a former service member with eviction, for flying the Canadian flag??
> 
> *I don't mean to sound crude or violent or immature.....*



Well, you did.  Is there some collective inability at work here that prevents the discussion of issues without resorting to profane insults?


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## Shec (15 Jul 2008)

The Canadian flag respectfully displayed by a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil that is owned by an institution of a duly constituted and recognized Canadian public government ?

It is not the Confederate Stars and Bars.  It is not the Swastika.  It is not the Hammer & Sickle.  It is not even the regimental guidon of the Janjaweed Militia.  But perhaps it should be replaced by the white flag of surrender.


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## geo (15 Jul 2008)

Then again, people should not be hanging em in their rooms..... as curtains.


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## Danjanou (15 Jul 2008)

I flew A Canadian flag from the balcony of my downtown apartment for years and no one seemed to mind. It did stcik out among all the rainbow flags and NDP posters though. A new flag prudly flies from our new house in East York, largest on the street and nothing but compliments form the neighbours so far.

A petition of support is not a bad idea. It also appears Cpl (ret’d) Murray has a new high powered ally in his fight Ontario Housing Minister Jim Watson.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/07/13/6144896-sun.html


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## MedTechStudent (15 Jul 2008)

Touchy issue:

On the one side, this man has every right to fly the Canadian flag.  And his military service and detection causes a bit of a sting when people read about his situation.

On the other hand, its the rules of the Housing Complex.  Thats just how it is there, and if they make an exception for this man then they are going to have to make more in the future for other people.  And then where will it end?  What makes some people deserving of the right to fly the Canadian Flag, and others not?

As much as I think the rule itself about *not* flying flags in kind of ridiculous, it is the rule so I think he should obey it.  

Just a real shame he's put into that position.  

So the bottom line as it seams to me, is that the only way he will be allowed to fly the flag, is if the housing organization abolishes the rules on flying them and allows *everyone* to raise flags.


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## TheCheez (15 Jul 2008)

According to an article from the Ottawa Sun Mr Murray got what he wanted. Flag poles front and back of the building!

Congrats to him.

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2008/07/15/6158976-sun.html


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## MedTechStudent (15 Jul 2008)

TheCheez said:
			
		

> According to an article from the Ottawa Sun Mr Murray got what he wanted. Flag poles front and back of the building!
> 
> Congrats to him.
> 
> http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2008/07/15/6158976-sun.html



Well there ya go, thats something they all can live with.

Good on him.


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## tankie (15 Jul 2008)

I am Canadian born and raised, British Tank Soldier by trade, i have the Maple Leaf stitched to every shirt collar and every helmet.  When asked if i can remove it i state my case...sir i am Canadian, not American and i don't want the locals mixing the two up! They nod their heads in a wise way and walk off.  My Canadian flag flys true, strong and free in my MQ in Andover Hampshire and god forbid the person that asks me to take it down.  Hats off to any serviceman  serving or ex, fighting for their country and wants to show patriotism.

Dieu et mon Droit


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## The Bread Guy (15 Jul 2008)

<bureaucratic defence tangent>



			
				CBH99 said:
			
		

> Some pencilneck little prick has NOTHING BETTER TO DO than sit there in his office - and threaten a former service member with eviction, for flying the Canadian flag??
> 
> I don't mean to sound crude or violent or immature.....but damn I wish we had some form of population control out there!!



I understand the frustration, but before we attack any specific "pencilneck little prick" (P-NLP), let's also understand that these individuals have rules they have to follow (by law) from their governing body (usually consisting of appointed or elected folks).  Part of their job is to follow the rules, but part of their job is ALSO to try to make the situation fit the pigeonhole created by said rules.  One person's P-NLP for enforcing the rules one disagrees with is another person's hero for enforcing the rules they DO agree with....

</bureaucratic defence tangent>

That said, since the problem appears to be solved, and with politicians always getting e-mails/petitions/documentation castigating them for decisions, if you want to thank the governing body:
http://www.uclg.ca/en/government/council.asp

I can't find contact info on the council members, so I'm guessing  you could send information care of the municipal clerk's office:


> Clerk
> Lorraine Crotty
> 25 Central Avenue West, Suite 100
> Brockville, ON K6V 4N6
> ...



Couldn't find an e-mail, but if you go right to the bottom of this page
http://www.uclg.ca/en/contact_us/
you'll find a link under the Clerk's listing that allows you to send web-based e-mail.


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## xena (15 Jul 2008)

Just a thought here...

In defence of the "P-NLP", have you ever been in a position where you were expected to enforce a stupid rule that you knew was stupid?  I have.  What did I do?  I obeyed orders, did what I was told, and when the powers-that-be discovered that we were doing stupid things, it got stopped PDQ.

What if...  a beaurucrat had a set of directives handed to him by a committee (and remember, an elephant is a stallion built by a committee!) and he knows that some of this stuff, while sounding good on paper, in an office, is just plain stupid in the real world.  But, he would put his job in jeapardy if he doesn't "enforce" these rules.

Well, he could "enforce" these rules, all the while hoping that people get the hints he's dropping about taking this to the media and letting the public outcry force the committee to revise their rules to something more in line with common sense.

What I'm saying is that this is more likely the result of just the "nature-of-the-beast" of how committees work, and there could (possibly) be an underling beaurucrat secretly cheering this guy on.  Possibly.  Maybe then, we can give folks, even beaurucrats, the benefit of the doubt...


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## The Bread Guy (15 Jul 2008)

xena said:
			
		

> In defence of the "P-NLP", have you ever been in a position where you were expected to enforce a stupid rule that you knew was stupid?  I have.  What did I do?  I obeyed orders, did what I was told, and when the powers-that-be discovered that we were doing stupid things, it got stopped PDQ.....



To follow up on this, note who's doing the talking about the solution here - emphasis mine:


> A message from Mark Murray to Canadian soldiers around the world: "We won the battle."
> 
> The 53-year-old ex-corporal is claiming victory in his flag war with the United Counties of Leeds and Grenville, whose community housing agency ordered him to remove his Canadian flag from his Cardinal balcony.
> 
> ...


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## geo (15 Jul 2008)

One of two things can and will happen....
1.  Enforce the rule... if the rule is silly then Hue and Cry will commence - people will complain and the rule gets changed

2. Short circuit the rule ... if the rule is silly and the enforcer sees it as such - he bends the rule or choses to ignore it... some of the time or all of the time while he is on duty - suddenly you have all sorts of people who have had the rule either applied or not applied or partialy applied..... THEN TRY TO SORT EVERYTHING OUT.

Best thing to do is to enforce the rule and let the chips fall where they might


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## armyvern (15 Jul 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Touchy issue:
> 
> On the one side, this man has every right to fly the Canadian flag.  And his military service and detection causes a bit of a sting when people read about his situation.
> 
> ...



1) Mr Murray's former service has SFA to do with my own personal thoughts on the matter and I'd think that many other posters who posted their support here - think the same way; I can't believe that a housing development has the balls to tell ANYONE that they can not fly the National Flag of this nation if it is being done IAW the proper protocols governing it's flying;

2) Regarding the rules: see my post here ... How to re-inforce stereotypes and keep a lot of good people down.


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## jollyjacktar (15 Jul 2008)

Yesterday when I read this on the CBC site I did take the time to google these housing authority folks and made it a point to politely email my objections and views to the lady quoted in the CBC story.  Perhaps others did too as they seem to have realized the err of their ways and have made a sensible accommodation.  Bloody fools should not have let it go to this extreme.    SO THERE!! housing people


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## Run away gun (15 Jul 2008)

And to thing, if he were to burn the same flag that he flies today, there would probably be no fanfare at all.

Odd world we live in.


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Jul 2008)

As it seems that the housing authority (or the community/politicians that is its sole shareholder) blinked, the issue is moot.  However a couple of points do come to mind in this discussion of following the rules versus making exceptions to the rules.  It is unlikely that the rules of the housing authority (and probably also referred to in this gentleman's tenancy agreement) specifically excluded the flying of flags.  It probably was worded somewhat like this extract from a condo corporation's rules and regulations.



> F.      BALCONIES/PATIOS
> 
> 1.  No awnings or shades shall be erected over and outside of the windows or balconies/patios without the prior written consent of the Board *nor shall any garments, rugs, or other articles be hung or placed on the window sills, railings, and other external parts of the unit.*
> 
> ...



With some minor changes, usually about cooking/grilling either being allowed or not, that section is very similar to most rules that I had to abide by when I lived in rental accommodation.  It is also remarkably similar to rules for the PMQs when I lived in them in Germany.  A similar situation occurred there when complaints were made about an occupant who had a flag (not the Cdn flag, but did not have an offensive connotation ) hanging from his balcony railing.  The situation was exacerbated by the general unkempt appearance of his balcony.  When he was told to take it down, he objected and used the defense that the flag demonstrated his pride in what it stood for and made reference to flying the Canadian Flag in its place.  He was informed that it did not matter what the flag was, it could not be hung from the railing.  As the senior rank in that PMQ block, it fell to me to ensure his compliance.

Though I would not wish to place Mr. Murray or any of his neighbours in a stereotype, the strict adherence to the rules may be more necessary in a subsidized housing complex than elsewhere.  Unfortunately, all too often the appearance of low income housing units diminishes when certain tenants do as they please.  Though judging from the picture of this particular complex (can be found on the housing authority's site), the housing authority and its tenants have maintained good standards, perhaps sticking to the rules had something to do with it.

There are no legal rules for the flying of flags in Canada, however the usual protocol (for government buildings) regarding the display from a balcony or building is to have the flag on a staff either horizontally or at an angle with the canton of the flag projected outwards.  Though it is not clear on the manner that Mr. Murray displayed his flag, it appears from the stories that he hung it from the railing.


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## Old Sweat (15 Jul 2008)

The local television news at 1800 yesterday showed that he had mounted a bracket on the end of the wall separating his little patio from his neighbor's. The flag itself was on a pole projected at about 800 mils from the bracket. None of the other tenants had any complaints about the flag; in fact everyone interviewed supported his stand.


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Jul 2008)

Thanks for the clarification.


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## fire_guy686 (16 Jul 2008)

TheCheez said:
			
		

> According to an article from the Ottawa Sun Mr Murray got what he wanted. Flag poles front and back of the building!
> 
> Congrats to him.
> 
> http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2008/07/15/6158976-sun.html



Glad to see the community housing agency agreed to this. Good job Mark for sticking to your guns and not letting up on this.


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## larry Strong (16 Jul 2008)

Glad to see a Mayor and an MLA stand up for the flag also. Kudo's to them.


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## 1feral1 (16 Jul 2008)

friends,

I love it when there is a happy ending.

Truly happy days,


OWDU


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## a_majoor (16 Jul 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> The entire problem with this situation is (and this is why every single one of us can pick out these areas as soon as we drive into them):
> 
> Nothing at all like rules telling a whole group of people they are mandated to be he same, remain the same, never grow. Awesome way to enforce the "you will always be what you are now and will never amount to much more - never attempt to do so, and never attempt to express yourself because who will you be kidding?" - Conform to our grey, bleak vision of you. Pretty freakin' sad actually.





> Do we or do we not trust our citizens? Do we still believe, as Adams once said, that in America we believe that each man is the best judge of his own interest? We certainly do not act as if we believe it. *Worse, we treat many of our citizens* -- "minorities" -- *as an underclass, unable to know their own interests, unable to better themselves through their own efforts, and forever condemned to exist on the benefits of "entitlements.*" We don't make them tug the forelock in deference to the bureaucrats, but if you visit the offices of public largesse you will find something very like that...
> 
> *If we do not believe that each man is the best judge of his own interests, then who shall have the power to tell each of us what we want and need? The technical term for those people is "rulers".*
> 
> ...


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## retiredgrunt45 (17 Jul 2008)

Bureaucrats "nil" Mr. Murray +1. Wait a go old chap!!

 Big fat foot in mouth looks good on them for a change! Wankers!


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## karl28 (20 Jul 2008)

Glad to here that this had a happy ending .


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## JSR OP (6 Oct 2008)

karl28 said:
			
		

> Glad to here that this had a happy ending .


So much for the happy ending...
He's being threatened again with eviction.

Here is the story in the Brockville Recorder and times.

http://www.recorder.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1233355

Vet who fought to display flag told he could face eviction

By Nick Gardiner, Staff Writer

A man at the centre of a dispute with the United Counties over flying a Canadian flag at his community housing property has been warned to change his behaviour within a week or face eviction. 
Mark Murray went from being joyful last Friday when community housing installed a new flagpole to a sense of bewilderment Thursday when officials presented him with a warning letter citing incidents last month investigated by police. 
The raising of a flagpole at the Helen Street housing complex satisfied a compromise reached between community housing officials and Murray after the armed forces veteran refused to remove a Canadian flag from his property as ordered last June. 
"The flagpole went up Friday and they put the flag on it Saturday ... and I took mine down and put in the closet," Murray told The Recorder and Times during a phone interview. 
But Thursday's letter of warning left him wondering if community housing is looking for excuses to finger him for eviction. 
"I really don't know whether it is or not. But some of my friends and neighbours think so." 
That's certainly the impression left with Linda McCoy, vice-president of the Cardinal legion, who feels Murray is being unfairly targeted. 
"It just seems to me to be too convenient that they put the flagpole up and the flag up late last week and now this week he's served with an eviction notice," McCoy said. 
"It's like they let the dust settle over the flag issue and now they're coming after him. It's just too, too coincidental." 
A spokesman from community housing wouldn't comment on any specific client case in a phone message left with a reporter Friday morning. 
But Debra Gill, manager of program planning, said in voicemail messages any correspondence to tenants "explains the process and possible solutions and the remedies."
Moreover, the office does an investigation as part of the process and often refers the matter to mediation before taking further action. 
"That's all I feel comfortable with stating at this time," she said, adding concerned residents are welcomed to call her directly. 
Murray acknowledged his involvement in a dispute with a neighbour in August, which brought police to the complex as indicated in the letter from community housing. 
But he said he had nothing to do with incidents in September that brought police to the complex as cited by the housing officials in the letter. 
One incident occurred Sept. 26 when he was away from home celebrating his brother's birthday, he said. 
Another on the previous day didn't involve him and he didn't speak with police, he insisted. 
"I asked them, 'Did you do any investigation at all?' and they said they spoke to the police." 
At no time did housing officials contact him to discuss mediation over the incidents listed in the letter, he said. 
Meanwhile, Murray said he asked Grenville OPP to examine their reports but was refused and directed instead to file a freedom of information request. 
He said police were called to the apartment building because of disputes between other neighbours that didn't involve him. The counties should check the facts, he said. 
"I'll do what I have to do to make them aware it isn't me and if they did some research they'd find out it was for someone else." 
Murray said he is particularly concerned over an allegation in the letter accusing him of looking in a window from his balcony. 
He said his ground-floor unit doesn't have a balcony while a separating wall between units prevents him from seeing into any windows when he's on his patio. 
"I was pretty upset when I read it. To me that kind of insinuates I'm a peeping Tom. 
"People can say I looked in a window and housing picks it up and puts it in their letter with no witnesses whatsoever and they believe it." 
Murray said he has contacted a lawyer who will send housing a letter asking to see the evidence that led to the warning.


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## Jimmy67 (6 Oct 2008)

Incredible... 

Funny thing is that my mother just went through this crap with the company that owns the apartment building she lives in. She was told to take down her flag "because it could be construed as a signal that drugs are sold from the apartment"! : If you want to be a jackass, you could claim that about anything from the colour of your patio furniture, to the arrangement of your flowerboxes on your balcony.

I will be having a little chat with her building super when I visit for Thanksgiving, I think...

At the rate we are going, we are going to end up like the gong shows here:

http://hoanewsnetwork.com/media/node


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## Sythen (6 Oct 2008)

I met Mr Murray during the 125th anniversary.. Was there for a dog and pony.. He bought all the guys there a few beer, and we had a chance to talk with him for a bit.. Great guy. Its ridiculous that he is being targeted like this.. Since its in print, is there any way he can sue for slander or anything like that?


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## 1feral1 (10 Oct 2008)

It's happening here too, but not from a 'landlord', someone actually complained to council...


Read on...

Shared IAW the usual...... http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24467397-952,00.html



---------------

Ex-soldier told to remove 'offensive' Aussie flagArticle from: Font size: Decrease Increase Email article: Email Print article: Print Submit comment: Submit comment By Hannah Davies 
October 08, 2008 11:00pm

A COUNCIL has ordered an ex-soldier to take down the Australian flag which flies outside his house because it has been deemed "offensive" by a neighbour.

Aaron Wilson erected the 5m high flagpole eight weeks ago, in honour of his friends who served in Iraq.

But on Tuesday, Logan City Council called to tell him a neighbour had made a complaint, labelling it "offensive".

He was told to remove the pole or risk legal action. Mr Wilson, whose father fought in Vietnam, said he was disgusted.

"I find it astonishing that anyone could find the Australian flag offensive," he said.

"My family and friends have served for the country and the very least I can do is have a flag to show my appreciation for Australia.

"I thought the council had better things to do with their time than persecute people for putting a flag up."

Logan City mayor Pam Parker said she backed Mr Wilson but could not rule out his having to move the flagpole. 


``I am offended that somebody should complain to the council about the Australian flag, and whoever they are should hang their head in shame,'' she told ABC Radio. 


Ms Parker said the flagpole had ``setback issues'' which she would discuss with council officers. 


A council spokeswoman said there was a concern the flagpole could fall down in high winds. She said Mr Wilson needed a building permit, because the pole was only 4.5m from the kerb and, under the Queensland Development Code, it should be at least 6m from the front.

But Mr Wilson, 30, a salesman from Eagleby, near Beenleigh, said other residents in the area had similar flagpoles that were closer to the boundary than his.

He said he would not be moving the flag. "You can't have rules for some people and not for others," he said. "I can't see how moving the flag back a bit is going to stop it being offensive."

Ex-serviceman Cr Ray Hackwood, who represents Mr Wilson's ward, said he would be monitoring the situation.

 "As area councillor, I certainly won't allow anyone to pull down an Australian flag," he said.

Mr Wilson's neighbours last night were baffled as to who had complained.

Felicia Maybury, 28, said: "Mr Wilson's got a right to fly his flag in support of his country and his mates who fought for us."

--------------------

As an Australian citizen and Veteran (of the Iraq campaign), I am totally disgusted,

Wes


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## OldSolduer (10 Oct 2008)

Maybe soldiers, retired should start using the Freedom of Expression clause.....since when is it illegal to fly the flag?


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## YYC Retired (10 Oct 2008)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> It's happening here too, but not from a 'landlord', someone actually complained to council...
> 
> 
> Read on...
> ...



Not something I would have expected to happen in Oz........ 'Tis absolutely disgusting for this kind of complaint to happen in Canada or Oz....


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## 1feral1 (10 Oct 2008)

YYC Retired said:
			
		

> Not something I would have expected to happen in Oz........ 'Tis absolutely disgusting for this kind of complaint to happen in Canada or Oz....



And to top in off, adding insult to injury, its right here in Queensland, the Rebel State, the Alberta of Australia.


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## twistedcables (11 Oct 2008)

That is a disingenuous interpretation by the property manager.  "Uniform appearance of flats" relates to PHYSICAL ALTERATIONS (including markings on windows) hat significantly change the appearance of the residence.  It does not (and cannot) apply to a Canadian flag or any other flag.  The ex-serviceman would easily win this on the grounds the law violates his right to lawful expression of political belief, which as a Charter right, supersedes other laws.  Finally, any contract that violates the Charter is of no effect and in this case, that section of the code would fail to be of merit against the display of the Canadian flag.

Used to work for a lawyer...picked up a couple of things here and there.


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## Blackadder1916 (11 Oct 2008)

twistedcables said:
			
		

> That is a disingenuous interpretation by the property manager.  "Uniform appearance of flats" relates to *PHYSICAL ALTERATIONS * (including markings on windows) hat significantly change the appearance of the residence.  It does not (and cannot) apply to a Canadian flag or any other flag.  . . .



And perhaps this could be the "physical alterations" to which said property manager would be referring.



			
				Old Sweat said:
			
		

> The local television news at 1800 yesterday showed that *he had mounted a bracket on the end of the wall separating his little patio * from his neighbor's. The flag itself was on a pole projected at about 800 mils from the bracket. None of the other tenants had any complaints about the flag; in fact everyone interviewed supported his stand.


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## twistedcables (11 Oct 2008)

It's good everyone else is behind him.  I'd like to hear the results.  Property manager will probably drop it because of (very polite) emails from army forum types...hehe


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## fire_guy686 (12 Oct 2008)

What a shame this guy has to deal with clowns like this just so he can proudly have a flag flying.


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## kratz (31 Mar 2009)

Appreantly the UoC Student Union thinks hanging the Canadian Flag could be exlucionary to some students and want to debate weather to hang or fly the national flag at all. I remember this being discussed earlier and thought this would fit here.

from CBC.ca



> Calgary student association hung up on 'exclusionary' Canadian flag
> Last Updated: Monday, March 30, 2009 | 7:06
> 
> A Mount Royal College student says it's ludicrous that his student association wants to ask for opinions before deciding whether it should re-hang a Canadian flag in its building.
> ...


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## Journeyman (31 Mar 2009)

Mount Royal College has a student population of 13,000.1

They received one submission about the _host nation's_ national flag being displayed, as being "exclusionary."2


Yep, looks like the intellectual lowest common denominator to me.   :




1. http://www.calgary-for-newcomers.com/MountRoyalCollege.html
2. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/03/30/cgy-mount-royal-flag-students-council.html


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## Fishbone Jones (31 Mar 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Yep, looks like the intellectual lowest common denominator to me.   :



Yup. Our future leaders and corporate CEOs :


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## danchapps (31 Mar 2009)

I'm sorry, but my college pub not only had many, many Canadian flags, but they also had the Queen's Standard up as well. (They hosted the Queen for lunch in 2002ish). I would have to say the pub had about 20 of each hanging from the ceiling, and nobody complained about that.


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## OldSolduer (3 Apr 2009)

Here is my opinion for what its worth:

Anyone who doesn't like flying the Canadian Flag on apartments, in places of higher learning, pubs, etc can feel free to find another country to live in.

We mourn every November 11th the fact that over 100,000 of our fellow citizens paid the supreme price for our right to fly our flag.

Its about time oridinary Canadians stood up and said "STOP!. This is complete nonsense!>


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## chris_log (3 Apr 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Here is my opinion for what its worth:
> 
> Anyone who doesn't like flying the Canadian Flag on apartments, in places of higher learning, pubs, etc can feel free to find another country to live in.
> 
> ...



This is nothing new as far as 'high education' in Canada is concerned. Although the fact that it occured in Alberta and people are letting it happen is somewhat surprising (I would expect this from the left-wing bastions in BC and Ont, not Alberta). Regardless, it's nothing new. Student associations and unions have always been anti-government and anti-Canadian. 

99% of the time (and after four years at school I finally learned this) you're better off ignoring them and let them slip back into the obscurity from whence they came. I personally don't care anymore, I'm done with university, done with the radical ideologies you find on campus and done with students.


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## leroi (3 Apr 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> This is nothing new as far as 'high education' in Canada is concerned. Although the fact that it occured in Alberta and people are letting it happen is somewhat surprising (I would expect this from the left-wing bastions in BC and Ont, not Alberta). Regardless, it's nothing new. Student associations and unions have always been anti-government and anti-Canadian.
> 
> 99% of the time (and after four years at school I finally learned this) you're better off ignoring them and let them slip back into the obscurity from whence they came. I personally don't care anymore, I'm done with university, done with the radical ideologies you find on campus and done with students.



  :stirpot: Piper, I know some editors at a certain Ontario unversity's online quasi-news forum who are really going to miss you > !

On a more serious note, I will miss the fact that you're not here anymore! 

BTW, David Akin was here last night as a speaker for the "Last Lecture."

Were you able to attend? Congratulations on graduation; one day it might be you returning here to deliver a speech to graduating students at the "Last Lecture"--don't be so sure you're done yet!

(P.S. gossip: last Friday Garvie wrote a piece supporting Galloway and by Monday it was mysteriously gone :rofl: )


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## NL_engineer (3 Apr 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> They received one submission about the _host nation's_ national flag being displayed, as being "exclusionary."2



I think that person should just suck it up or go the f*** home.  If I went to study in the US or any other country, I'd expect to see there flag flying all over the school.


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## chris_log (3 Apr 2009)

leroi said:
			
		

> :stirpot: Piper, I know some editors at a certain Ontario unversity's online quasi-news forum who are really going to miss you > !
> 
> On a more serious note, I will miss the fact that you're not here anymore!
> 
> ...



I didn't go to the last lecture, I couldn't really be bothered and I had an assignment to finish anyways. I'm not even attending graduation as I'll be in another province (I get my degree mailed to me). 

I'm sick of academia and students. I've had great profs and some interesting classes but I can honestly say I'm ready to leave; students are idiots for the most part (of course, I spent 2.5 years dealing with the worst of 'em, so its partially my own fault). If I ever go back to school it'll be for a law degree which hopefully means that I'll be among more mature people.


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## leroi (3 Apr 2009)

Piper, 

I can understand how you feel about academia :nod: .

Best of luck with your career!  :yellow:

Congrats!


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## R. Jorgensen (3 Apr 2009)

I read the MRC story and it sickened me. Has anyone else notice that in the last couple of years, the average potency of National Pride in Canada has plummeted?

I mean... there isn't even any Canadian flags in any of the rooms in my school except for those little dinky ones on the plastic stick and ones teachers personally bought from the dollar store or something. It's insanity if you ask me.


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## PMedMoe (28 Jul 2009)

More flag "flap".  

*Flag flap leads to war of words*
Article link

OTTAWA -- The Great Ottawa Flag War is raging. 

On one side, Gaetane True, property manager of Montfort Manor Apartments on Langs Rd. in the east end, and Zev Shafran, president of Devonshire Properties Inc. that owns the 170-unit building of mostly seniors. 

On the other side, tenants in six of the units, led by Canadian military vets R. Guy “Vache” Vachon, 75, and Fred Norman, 69, who are furiously defying the edict posted on the lobby wall July 21 that read “those who have any type of flags on their balconies or on their windows, we ask to please take them down.” 

Battle cry of Gaetane True, 11 years running the building: “If they want to fly their flags inside their apartments with a fan making them flutter so they can show them off to their friends, fine. But just don’t let me have to look at them.” 

Battle cry of Vache Vachon, 25 years in the army, including combat in the Korean War: “I’m not moving my flags from the balcony. I’ll stay with them until I croak.” 

Battle cry of Zev Shafran in Vancouver: “We are asking for the building to be brought into a more sightly scene.”  

Battle cry of Fred Norman, fightin’ Cape Bretoner: “I served my country for 23 years under the flag of Canada, I’ll be damned if I’ll remove it. If I have to go down with my flag, I will.” 

Mostly the Canadian flag. Mostly small flags on little poles attached to the balcony railings. Or in the case of Vache Vachon, the Canadian flag, Acadian flag in honour of his roots, and a Support Our Troops in Afghanistan flag. 

In June, Shafran decided the balcony flags were an eye-sore and told True to post the lobby memo. 

More on link


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## Sythen (28 Sep 2011)

Not really an update to the story, but kinda fits the topic.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2011/09/20110927-211338.html



> OTTAWA -- Flying the Canadian flag is sacrosanct. At least it will be if a new law is passed.
> The Conservatives will unfurl a private member's bill on Parliament Hill Wednesday that would make it illegal to prevent anyone from displaying the maple leaf in a proper manner.
> 
> "The Canadian flag represents the principles of freedom, democracy, courage and justice," reads a portion of the proposed law. "The Canadian flag represents the pride in our great nation and support for those who have sacrificed their lives for it."


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## The Bread Guy (28 Sep 2011)

Beat me to it - here's what was said in the House of Commons on this yesterday when the bill was introduced and passed first reading:


> Mr. John Carmichael (Don Valley West, CPC) moved for leave to introduce Bill C-288, An Act respecting the National Flag of Canada.
> 
> He said: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to proudly introduce my bill entitled, “National Flag of Canada Act”. The purpose of this enactment is to ensure that all Canadians from coast to coast to coast have the right to fly the national flag of Canada.
> 
> It is in the national and public interest that all Canadians have the right and privilege to display the national flag of Canada and that no Canadian shall be restricted from displaying our flag. The Canadian flag represents all Canadian citizens. It represents pride in our great nation and support for those who have sacrificed their lives for the principles that it embodies: freedom, democracy, courage, and justice, upon which our great nation was built.


Hansard, 27 Sept 11

And here's a link to more information about the proposed act - proposed text attached.

*Caveat:*  most private members bills do NOT become law.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Sep 2011)

What they need to be doing is making sure that people respect the flag by replacing it when it becomes tattered, faded or otherwise worn. I don't have enough time in the day to stop at every business I see flying a shoddy example of our national flag and ask them to replace it.


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## Danjanou (28 Sep 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> What they need to be doing is making sure that people respect the flag by replacing it when it becomes tattered, faded or otherwise worn. I don't have enough time in the day to stop at every business I see flying a shoddy example of our national flag and ask them to replace it.



I have an elderly (80 +) Aunt who does ( have both the time and intent). It is quite entertaining to watch her tear into some poor maintenance type or official at a civic building or school.  ;D


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## FlyingDutchman (28 Sep 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> What they need to be doing is making sure that people respect the flag by replacing it when it becomes tattered, faded or otherwise worn. I don't have enough time in the day to stop at every business I see flying a shoddy example of our national flag and ask them to replace it.


One could argue such flags are very loved, like my favorite pair of pants.  A little tlc and they'll look as good as new.


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## aesop081 (28 Sep 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Beat me to it - here's what was said in the House of Commons on this yesterday when the bill was introduced and passed first reading:Hansard, 27 Sept 11
> 
> And here's a link to more information about the proposed act - proposed text attached.
> 
> *Caveat:*  most private members bills do NOT become law.



More government meddling into my private property. Just what this country needs...........


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## the 48th regulator (28 Sep 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> What they need to be doing is making sure that people respect the flag by replacing it when it becomes tattered, faded or otherwise worn. I don't have enough time in the day to stop at every business I see flying a shoddy example of our national flag and ask them to replace it.



Amen to that!  I don't know how many times my OSI has been triggered by that brother!

On a lighter note, though, there is a cookie cutter box mall near my home in Scarborough (Surprise  : ) is right next to the 401/Highway of heroes.  They fly this enormous Canadian flag, and without fail always have it down as soon as word of a fallen comes back home.  One day last fall, we had a huge thunderstorm, which tore the bottom half ( saw this in the evening as I was picking up my usual order at the LCBO right across from the flag pole   :blotto.  The next morning, typical Sunny day ready to dry the wetness, I drive by and there is a brand new flag waving!  I had to stop, and get out of the car to make sure my eyers were not playing tricks.

First of all, I was surprised to see this where I live.  Second, with the storm a brewing I did not expect anyone to care about the state of the flag, and third due to the size of this flag I say it would have cost a pretty penny to have one, let alone a spare.  But sure as I write this, they replaced the damaged one before the next day!

Makes me proud to be Canadian.  We don't need to promote our devotion to the flag, we just do it.

Picture of Flagpole from Google

dileas

tess


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## psionic0 (28 Sep 2011)

I can tell you from experience (grew up in Pickering, worked overnight security at that mall) that, this particular mall has three of those flags ready to go. In fact, I have seen these flags presented to the families of the fallen from the area.   All around. Truly an example.


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## the 48th regulator (28 Sep 2011)

psionic0 said:
			
		

> I can tell you from experience (grew up in Pickering, worked overnight security at that mall) that, this particular mall has three of those flags ready to go. In fact, I have seen these flags presented to the families of the fallen from the area.   All around. Truly an example.



To hear that, just reaffirms my respect to them.  

dileas

tess


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## The Bread Guy (28 Sep 2011)

Go figure - the NDP opposing a bill, even a Private Members Bill that has little chance of passing.  Who'd've thunk it?


> A Conservative bill that would make it a crime to prevent someone from flying the Canadian flag is an unnecessary distraction when Parliament has real work to do, a New Democrat critic said Wednesday.
> 
> NDP MP Charlie Angus said the private member's bill, introduced by rookie backbencher John Carmichael, is akin to "tabloid-style politics" at a time of a looming economic crisis.
> 
> ...


CTV.ca, 28 Sept 11


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## Neill McKay (28 Sep 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Go figure - the NDP opposing a bill, even a Private Members Bill that has little chance of passing.  Who'd've thunk it?[/size]



One expects a certain amount of that from the Opposition.


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## Fotoshark (28 Sep 2011)

Is the landlord/tenant not Canadian?  Cuz I can't say that I've known a Canadian who would ever tell someone they can't display a Canadian flag here...

-T.


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## OldSolduer (28 Sep 2011)

I heard on the news many condo/private apartment complexes have strict rules about flags etc.

They need to shake their f*ckiing heads.....what gave them the right to tell anyone about what flag to fly?......


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Sep 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> One could argue such flags are very loved, like my favorite pair of pants.  A little tlc and they'll look as good as new.



Not when they are tattered back past the maple leaf.


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## FlyingDutchman (29 Sep 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Not when they are tattered back past the maple leaf.


Alot of tlc, a proper storage (if they have sentimenal value), or a proper disposal.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Oct 2011)

More, albeit a nonsensical more, on this, from a columnist whose views I normally respect, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/lysiane-gagnon/the-pms-overzealous-glorification-of-the-flag-is-a-joke/article2187025/


> The PM's overzealous glorification of the flag is a joke
> 
> LYSIANE GAGNON
> From Monday's Globe and Mail
> ...



First: allow me to repeat _"I am not a fervent monarchist but I feel that so long as we are a monarchy we should not be ashamed to show our royal symbols. If we want republican symbols then let's become a republic ..."_

Second: this is part of the process I mention regularly - it is necessary to _"govern without Québec ~ not against Québec, just without either pandering to it or depending upon it for electoral success."_ This policy will be problematical in Québec but it is a "winner" almost everywhere else sp no one, at least no one who matters, gives a damn about Québec's republican anti-English _sensitivities_.


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## George Wallace (3 Oct 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> More, albeit a nonsensical more, on this, from a columnist whose views I normally respect, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_:
> 
> 
> 
> > In Quebec, it is quite unusual to see flags exhibited on a balcony or a lawn outside election or referendum campaigns, and then they are political statements: a fleur-de-lys means that the resident is a sovereigntist; a Maple Leaf means he’s a die-hard federalist. But most people, especially in the cities, are discreet about their political allegiances.




Makes me wonder if this journalist has ever been to Quebec.  I have seen the Fleur-de-lys flown on all sorts of private residences in Quebec.  Quite a multitude, in fact.  Some in CFB Gagetown may even remember seeing members of 5 eme Bde show up wearing it on their uniforms in the past.


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## Jungle (3 Oct 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I have seen the Fleur-de-lys flown on all sorts of private residences in Quebec.  Quite a multitude, in fact.



Actually, it depends on the time of the year; in june/july, it is common. The rest of the year, not as much.

There is a perception, for some people here, that flying a flag represents a political statement: if you fly the Québec flag, you are a separatist; if you fly the Canadian flag, you are a federalist.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Oct 2011)

Jungle said:
			
		

> Actually, it depends on the time of the year; in june/july, it is common. The rest of the year, not as much.
> 
> There is a perception, for some people here, that flying a flag represents a political statement: if you fly the Québec flag, you are a separatist; if you fly the Canadian flag, you are a federalist.



I fly it because I'm a Canadian.


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## OldSolduer (3 Oct 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I fly it because I'm a Canadian.



And to honour the over 100,000 people who have died in the service of this nation.....  

We Will Remember Them


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## Jarnhamar (3 Oct 2011)

> Showing off your country’s flag when you’re safely at home has a political meaning. It is often a sign of intense nationalism, which usually appeals to extreme-right parties in most developed countries



So THATS why soldiers coffins have flags drapped over them, they're making a political statement. Got it.


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## Jimmy_D (3 Oct 2011)

I wonder what those members families of 5 eme Bde wearing Fleur-de-lys on their shoulder (when they came to gagetown) if they were the ones who ended up in a pine box. Would their families dispute that they were sepratists and question why their casket was covered in Canadian Flag?


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## Jungle (3 Oct 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I fly it because I'm a Canadian.



So do I.


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## Jungle (3 Oct 2011)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> I wonder what those members families of 5 eme Bde wearing Fleur-de-lys on their shoulder (when they came to gagetown) if they were the ones who ended up in a pine box. Would their families dispute that they were sepratists and question why their casket was covered in Canadian Flag?



Some caskets were not covered with the Canadian Flag; they were covered with the CF Flag.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Oct 2011)

It is a mistake to think that one cannot be a good Québecer, even a _nationalist_ Québecer, and not be a good Canadian, too.

Anecdotal evidence: I have a friend, not too strong a word, who is great believer in French Canada, as an _idea_ and a _reality_. She is a good Québecer and a strong Canadian who has served her country, at home and abroad, for many years. She has no patience for separatism because she believe:

1. Québec is _better_, not just better off, as part of Canada than it could or would be as an independent nation. (My, personal, experience is that the more Québecers have travelled the world the more Canadian they are, too.)

2. Separation is a dream and most of the dreamers do not understand the harsh realities that the process of separating would bring forth. She knows that the process of getting there, to independence, would divide and destroy Québec before it could recreate itself as a new nation.

But she is no fan of Canada as constructed and governed. She wants a better country - one in which (probably fewer) provinces have much more independence; one in which Québec can be as French as it can manage even though Canada does not even pretend to be a bilingual country, although it would be, by virtue of Québec's strength within Canada, really bicultural.

I vaguely recall she and I developing a model like that (five (?) provinces with a _weaker_ national government, with minimal overlaps in areas of responsibility) on a beery long weekend, at a cottage party that was dominated by separatists, but with a good many Canadians for whom sovereignty is a red flag. She and I developed our position in order to point out the logical weaknesses of both the separatist and Canadian positions. My recollection is that we carried the day - but there was so much booze (and other distractions) that I cannot be sure.

The point is: a _fleur de lis_ does not equal a separatist any more than sporting a maple leaf makes one a Canadian.


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## Bluebulldog (3 Oct 2011)

I live in ON, but have a camp in Northern QC. It's actually funny how many folks up there fly the Fleur de Lis (Sp?). No one with the exception of government buildings flies the Canadian Flag.

I have one on my property, and my wifes Uncle who lives up the lake does as well ( He's a retired CPO1). The neighbors are quite respectful, but it does make one wonder why a person can't be proud of their country, and their province at the same time.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Oct 2011)

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> I live in ON, but have a camp in Northern QC. It's actually funny how many folks up there fly the Fleur de Lis (Sp?). No one with the exception of government buildings flies the Canadian Flag.
> 
> I have one on my property, and my wifes Uncle who lives up the lake does as well ( He's a retired CPO1). The neighbors are quite respectful, but it does make one wonder why a person can't be proud of their country, and their province at the same time.










			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> It is a mistake to think that one cannot be a good Québecer, even a _nationalist_ Québecer, and not be a good Canadian, too.
> 
> Anecdotal evidence: I have a friend, not too strong a word, who is great believer in French Canada, as an _idea_ and a _reality_. She is a good Québecer and a strong Canadian who has served her country, at home and abroad, for many years. She has no patience for separatism because she believe:
> 
> ...


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## Jungle (3 Oct 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> It is a mistake to think that one cannot be a good Québecer, even a _nationalist_ Québecer, and not be a good Canadian, too.
> 
> Anecdotal evidence: I have a friend, not too strong a word, who is great believer in French Canada, as an _idea_ and a _reality_. She is a good Québecer and a strong Canadian who has served her country, at home and abroad, for many years. She has no patience for separatism because she believe:
> 
> ...



I agree with most of the points above. So do most Québécois I know, even some former separatists...  Many would also like to see a Canadian as head of state, but that is another debate.


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## Infanteer (3 Oct 2011)

There isn't really a point in getting wrapped up in flags - go to BC and see how many folks fly the Provincial flag there.  One can be proud of one's province and a good Canadian (as others have already indicated).


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## armyvern (4 Oct 2011)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> I wonder what those members families of 5 eme Bde wearing Fleur-de-lys on their shoulder (when they came to gagetown) if they were the ones who ended up in a pine box. Would their families dispute that they were sepratists and question why their casket was covered in Canadian Flag?



Many mbrs of 5e Bdge wore the Fleur-de-lis on their uniform over here instead of the Maple Leaf (that was _fun_ trying to sort out and deal with  :brickwall, BUT many anglo CF mbrs from outside of QC who fell here were also carried with the CF flag rather than the Maple Leaf.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Oct 2011)

Sythen said:
			
		

> Not really an update to the story, but kinda fits the topic.
> 
> http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2011/09/20110927-211338.html
> 
> ...



The latest:  the law, even if passed, would not apply on Parliament hill.


> The Maple Leaf may be forever, but it isn't for everyone.
> 
> A proposed new Conservative law that enforces Canadians' right to fly the flag won't apply to MPs on Parliament Hill, Heritage Minister James Moore said Wednesday.
> 
> ...


The Canadian Press, via CTV.ca, 6 Oct 11


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## Edward Campbell (6 Oct 2011)

Without going into details about the scope and punishments, etc, this is not, in principle, a bad law.

Nobody, no individual person, should be forced or even expected to fly a flag, and special organizations, like parliament, can make their won rules, but, no one, no person, should be forbidden to fly the flag - again accepting that parliament can make its own rules.


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## PMedMoe (6 Oct 2011)

> Moore said when asked about rules forbidding MPs from having a flag in the window of their parliamentary offices.



If it's an _actual_ flag, then it should be displayed properly, not hung in a window like a curtain.  JMHO.


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## The Bread Guy (4 Nov 2011)

A bump to show it's not JUST happening here in Canada....


> A 70-year-old veteran has been threatened with eviction if he continues to hang his large, Army-issued U.S. flag on an outside wall of the government-subsized senior housing complex where he lives in Springfield.
> 
> Edward Zivica, who served in the U.S. Navy’s Submarine Service from 1960 to 1967, was one of the first tenants to move into the downtown Aster apartment complex, which is managed by St. Vincent de Paul of Lane County, when it opened in 2009. Since then, he’s had several clashes with the complex’s management over what he says is simply his desire to show his patriotism.
> 
> ...


_Eugene Register-Guard_, 3 Nov 11


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