# Drill (Parade) in FFO



## Buttons

Hello 

Been a silent observer for years, did a search could not find an answer.

My unit is doing a 13-16km parade through the city. CO wants it to be in FFO - cool - except they want to do parade drill with weapons (arms swung 'mag'-pocket high, change arms on the march around canteen/c9 pouches). Personally I think this is going to look horrible as I think soldiers in ffo should carry their weapons like soldiers wearing ffo, and having some long parade experience, I think the troops will just say f*** it by km 5 and just be slack anyway.

Looking for advice on how to disuade this, either doctrinal or logical.

FFO with Helmets vs Scarlet dress already suggests a different posture, I'm suggesting easy march with barrels down to fit the dress better.  Stationary sure, shoulder arms.


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## TCM621

Well it looks like shit,  so there is that. Watch any group of BMQ or DP1 students marching around with their elbows flailed (to get around pouches) and you will realize it is futile. Whatever happened to a smartly turned out unit showing pride in their number 1s? I would dissuade any  unit if walking through a city with weapons at the low ready. You will have people howling about jack booted thugs in no time. Parade when it's parade time and patrol when it's patrol time.


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## Loachman

Regular unit, or Reserve?


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## PuckChaser

I've done a change of command parade before in FFO. You can do the drill movements, but the timing needs to slow down a bit to compensate for the extra gear.

I also think its a stupid idea to march someone at standard pace holding rifles at shoulder arms for 13-16km, even if you're changing arms. Just by the nature of how people march while doing drill, you're going to get some destroyed feet. Probably much easier to have rifles slung, and marched at easy march.


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## Oldgateboatdriver

I have a hard time believing there is any such thing as a 13 to 16 Km parade held anywhere in Canada, for anything.

If you did  that on Yonge Street in TO, starting from the corner of King right downtown, the parade would take you to Sheppard ave., on the north side of the 401, to get to 13 Km, and 16 would put you mid way between Finch and Steeles avenues. 

The two longest parades I can think of are the Montreal and Toronto Santa Claus parades, and they are two and a half to three Kms only.


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## daftandbarmy

It's official. Your CO is an idiot. Leave before he gets you.all killed.


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## mariomike

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> I have a hard time believing there is any such thing as a 13 to 16 Km parade held anywhere in Canada, for anything.
> 
> If you did  that on Yonge Street in TO, starting from the corner of King right downtown, the parade would take you to Sheppard ave., on the north side of the 401, to get to 13 Km, and 16 would put you mid way between Finch and Steeles avenues.
> 
> The two longest parades I can think of are the Montreal and Toronto Santa Claus parades, and they are two and a half to three Kms only.



Right. 
The TO Santa Claus parade route is 5 - 6 kilometres long.
Walking from Yonge and King to Yonge and Steeles would be 17 km.



			
				Buttons said:
			
		

> My unit is doing a 13-16km parade through the city.



I wonder what city that is?


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## RedcapCrusader

Even the Calgary Stampede Parade isn't that long, and they only have maybe a section of troops in FFO, 4 max in ghillie suits. Everyone else is in No. 1.

This is pretty bizarre


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## Pusser

"Parade in FFO" is an oxymoron and the guy who thought this up is simply a moron.


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## PuckChaser

I just hope it's not in a BC or southern Ontario town. Some hippy is going to call the RCMP and say there's an invasion, and your whole unit will get to feel what it's like to be in a high risk takedown.


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## mariomike

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Even the Calgary Stampede Parade isn't that long,



"The five kilometre parade route..."
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/what-you-need-to-know-to-plan-your-calgary-stampede-parade-day-1.1896103

http://storage.calgarysun.com/v1/suns-prod-images/1297282024470_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80
Looks like it covers a distance of about 2.5 kilometres, then turns up a parallel street. 



			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I just hope it's not in a BC or southern Ontario town. Some hippy is going to call the RCMP and say there's an invasion, and your whole unit will get to feel what it's like to be in a high risk takedown.



Should be ok for the Warrior's Day Parade  
http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/Index.htm


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## medicineman

I've done some pretty stupid things like that...in the 80's/90's.  Had a platoon commander in Calgary that made us do a 10km workup for the 2 x 16 on base at the shoulder arms, occasionally changing to the high port to double around.  He was hoping to run into a senior officer to show us off doing an eyes right :.  My old Reserve unit used to compete in a national trophy competition that started with a parade in FFO - '82 pattern stuff - which was a tad awkward, especially the march past, since pouches were getting in the way.  We had C1's at the time...our CO once forgot to shoulder us for a march past on the award parade for the same trophy, so we did the march past at the short trail.  That was not all that fun.

Also did a colour guard as an Army Cadet mannnnny moons ago, with C1's, that was about 5-6km long, with several change arms along the way.  We were, however, in Artillery Dress Blues, not FFO.  My arms were pretty sore after though I'll tell you.

MM


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## Eye In The Sky

Pusser said:
			
		

> "Parade in FFO" is an oxymoron and the guy who thought this up is simply a moron.



I've done a few parades in FFO, including a COC parade.   :nod:  I actually preferred that to "DEU and whites"!

However, a 10+ km march at the shoulder arms... rly:


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## a_majoor

The only drill I have _ever_ been associated with involving FFO is "Pack Drill" as punishment for soldiers. Giving drill to soldiers on pack drill is actually difficult, since (as noted) you have to slow things down to ensure that the movements can actually be carried out when the soldier is carrying/wearing all that kit, whereas the CSM wants them to be doing everything at the quick time (or even close to "rifle" drill speed)

I'm afraid the "13km" part of the question is raising a red flag, since I have never seen a parade anywhere near that long. The only other semi rational explanation is someone was talking about doing the BFT, and the conversation somehow mutated like a game of telephone gone extremely haywire.


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## medicineman

Having said that, there are innumerable fuqtards that are good idea faeries that might come up with AND be able to sell that idea.  

MM


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## armyvern

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> It's official. Your CO is an idiot. Leave before he gets you.all killed.



You win the internet today.


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## Oldgateboatdriver

The OP has not been back to let us know where this mythical 13-16 Km parade was to take place. I think we may all have fallen prey to a trickster here.


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## PuckChaser

Or he died on the march and we won't ever hear back.


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## medicineman

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Or he died on the march and we won't ever hear back.



I'm thinking that might be a valid point...

MM


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## blackberet17

are we calling it all :bullshit: then?


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## JesseWZ

blackberet17 said:
			
		

> are we calling it all :bullshit: then?



I wonder if it is less bullshit and more a young troop inexperienced in the ways of the world and exaggerating their story to make the perceived slight to be more slighting than it actually is.


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## BinRat55

Too funny... Buttons, oh Buttons.

At least you didn't say you were marching in Full FFO Order!!

There are several people on this board that you don't want to "over exaggerate" around or they can eat you alive... ooops - you just woke them ALL up!!

Buttons oh buttons.


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## Loachman

His rank in his profile is "Sgt" and unit is "Inf". He registered on 21 April 2016 at 20:24:18, posted thirty-eight seconds later, and hasn't checked back since 22 April 2016 at 03:38:47.


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## BinRat55

Hee hee...

He said FFO 5 times... maybe he plays that shooter video game my son plays and wanted to say FFO to real men and women... Vern - you're both to me!!


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## George Wallace

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Hee hee...
> 
> He said FFO 5 times...



Maybe he made a typo and it should have been "FFS"?    >


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## BinRat55

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Maybe he made a typo and it should have been "FFS"?    >



Lol!! I think that's what all of us are saying!


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## sandyson

Whenever I got a really bright idea as CO, the RSM would come into the office and close the door.  We'd talk.  (No. Really.) When he left, I had an even better idea: his.


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## BinRat55

sandyson said:
			
		

> Whenever I got a really bright idea as CO, the RSM would come into the office and close the door.  We'd talk.  (No. Really.) When he left, I had an even better idea: his.



That's awesome - RSM-ocracy at it's finest!


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## paffomaybe

(Couldn't watch this without remembering the  :2c:  :2c:  :2c: from this thread... )

http://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=870983

TORY HONOURS ROYAL REGIMENT OF CANADA

Toronto Mayor John Tory honoured the Royal Regiment of Canada today at the Freedom of the City Ceremony in Nathan Phillips Square.


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## daftandbarmy

sprl said:
			
		

> (Couldn't watch this without remembering the  :2c:  :2c:  :2c: from this thread... )
> 
> http://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=870983
> 
> TORY HONOURS ROYAL REGIMENT OF CANADA
> 
> Toronto Mayor John Tory honoured the Royal Regiment of Canada today at the Freedom of the City Ceremony in Nathan Phillips Square.



Good thing their allied regiment is the Coldstream Guards.


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## Danjanou

sprl said:
			
		

> (Couldn't watch this without remembering the  :2c:  :2c:  :2c: from this thread... )
> 
> http://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=870983
> 
> TORY HONOURS ROYAL REGIMENT OF CANADA
> 
> Toronto Mayor John Tory honoured the Royal Regiment of Canada today at the Freedom of the City Ceremony in Nathan Phillips Square.



Google Maps says it's 3.3 Km from City Hall to the RRC home station at Fort York Armoury, or 39 minutes at a brisk pace. I wonder if the OP was exaggerating a bit. BTW I thought  the FFO looked horrible, especially them all wearing ballistic eye protection. I guess whatever numpty at 32 Bde who planned this just got his leading change bubble filled in.  :


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Maybe I missed something here, Danjanou, but I watched the whole clip and the only person I saw wearing the FFO is the Lcol of the regiment. The other people all seem to be wearing only their CADPAT without the FFO, and of course, the Army cadets in the background are all wearing the old plain olive combat of lore.


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## Remius

Sadly this is likely more a case of:

"Let's do this in scarlets"

"We don't have enough decent scarlets to go around."

"Ok, in DEU then."

"Yeah, none of our new recruits or BMQ guys can get initial issue and the rest are missing parts are won't be ready on time or don't have enough points for what they need."

"Hmn, combats then, in FFO for good measure."

The end.


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Again Remius, I see the Lcol in FFO, but everybody else in CADPAT with berets only, unless someone has other videos or pictures that show otherwise.

The press release, however, invites people to "witness the military pageantry of the Royal regiment of Canada".

Not much pageantry in a bunch of guys and gals in CADPAT if you ask me  ;D. If the logic is as you posted Remius, it would have had more pageantry to have a third of the regiment out in scarlets, with guns and bayonets fixed, followed by another third in DEU and a last third in CADPAT.


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## dapaterson

As with most parades on film, the focus was (unfortunately) on the folks in front jabbering and not the troops on parade.

I strongly suspect that if the CO was in FFO with BEW, then so was the rest of the unit.  Unless the RSM changed the order of dress and told everyone except for the CO.  Which would be the all-time greatest RSM stunt in history.


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## Danjanou

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Maybe I missed something here, Danjanou, but I watched the whole clip and the only person I saw wearing the FFO is the Lcol of the regiment. The other people all seem to be wearing only their CADPAT without the FFO, and of course, the Army cadets in the background are all wearing the old plain olive combat of lore.









yeah you're right dude no FFO on parade  8)



			
				Remius said:
			
		

> Sadly this is likely more a case of:
> 
> "Let's do this in scarlets"
> 
> "We don't have enough decent scarlets to go around."
> 
> "Ok, in DEU then."
> 
> "Yeah, none of our new recruits or BMQ guys can get initial issue and the rest are missing parts are won't be ready on time or don't have enough points for what they need."
> 
> "Hmn, combats then, in FFO for good measure."
> 
> The end.



I think you're right. mind I've seen all three orders of dress on the same parade and even in the same guard


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Like I said Danjanou, I watched the video clip only. Thanks for the picture, which I hadn't seen. So obviously FFO.

However, I stand by the fact that the logic proposed by Remius doesn't cut it.

In fact, I found this interesting little clip from one of their Church (?) parade in 2008. Obviously mixing Scarlet's, DEU's and CADPAT was not a problem then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzc2tJTQcsY

Seems to me this may be a case of a Colonel that needs a RSM that is not a gofer but a nofer, i.e. one that can tell his C.O. "Nofer gawd's sake, Sir! That is a bad idea".

I stand by my other comment: Not much military pageantry in a bunch of people dressed in CADPAT with FFO  [


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## Danjanou

I agree, it don't look right and neither does the mixed dress either. I know the RSM. I'm sure he had counsel and advice for his CO, however apparently it was not entertained.


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## daftandbarmy

Danjanou said:
			
		

> yeah you're right dude no FFO on parade  8)
> 
> I think you're right. mind I've seen all three orders of dress on the same parade and even in the same guard



I know the Foulds family. A long line of 'Royals'. Andy Foulds was a friend of my Dad's and served with the regiment throughout WW2. His son was on my Phase III Inf.

Would they would be outraged? Pretty much....


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## paffomaybe

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I agree, it don't look right and neither does the mixed dress either. I know the RSM. I'm sure he had counsel and advice for his CO, however apparently it was not entertained.



Maybe done with mind to spite the Liberals.  You know... *low menacing growl* "Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada."  

Mission accomplished.


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## Remius

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> However, I stand by the fact that the logic proposed by Remius doesn't cut it.



My theory does not imply that actual logic was used in this decision...but as long as they had a good time.  I've never seen colours marched on in ffo before, or even just combats.  Hurts my eyes.


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## dapaterson

Just a minute.  If the RRC was just granted Freedom of the City, it means when they entered the square they would have had bayonets sheathed.  Only after being granted freedom of the City would they be entitled to fix bayonets.

I'd love to have seen the drill to fix bayonets, drawing it from the chest...


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## Kirkhill

http://ctv.news/wSXddMb

Looks like the uniforms are right out of the jar.


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## mariomike

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> http://ctv.news/wSXddMb



"...from the Moss Park Armoury to Nathan Phillips Square.."  ???
00:27

That's only about 1 km., ( if the news report is accurate ).


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## Blackadder1916

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Just a minute.  If the RRC was just granted Freedom of the City, it means when they entered the square they would have had bayonets sheathed.  Only after being granted freedom of the City would they be entitled to fix bayonets.
> 
> I'd love to have seen the drill to fix bayonets, drawing it from the chest...



They already had Freedom of the City granted, they were just exercising their right.

City of Toronto *to affirm* The Royal Regiment of Canada's Freedom of the City



> . . . The Royal Regiment of Canada, an Army Reserve Regiment based at Fort York Armoury, was granted the Freedom of the City on its 100th anniversary in 1962. On Sunday, May 15 at noon, the Regiment will affirm this privilege and march into Nathan Phillips Square.


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## Kirkhill

At the 0:12 mark the RRC appears to be passing under the gates of the CNE, which if memory serves is closer to Fort York than Moss Park.


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## mariomike

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> At the 0:12 mark the RRC appears to be passing under the gates of the CNE, which if memory serves is closer to Fort York than Moss Park.



Yes, it shows them at FYA and the Princess Gates heading for Strachan Ave. Probably just the reporter got a little confused.


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## armyvern

mariomike said:
			
		

> "...from the Moss Park Armoury to Nathan Phillips Square.."  ???
> 00:27
> 
> That's only about 1 km., ( if the news report is accurate ).



I once participated in a Freedom of the City in Fredericton where our FUP was approximately 500m from the dias and reviewing stands.  We marched a very circuitous route taking us westwards away from the FUP, northwards along the waterfront, back to the east and then south onto the main drag again through downtown (changing arms on the march as we went).  Did the parade which granted us The Freedom of The City, then marched the route once again with bayonets mounted.

Beat the hell out of all the practices for the parade ... forming up at B6 MSA in Gagetown, drawing weapons then marching to the Camp Argonaut Parade Square for the practices, then back to the MSA again after the practices were done ... every day for a week.  4+km round trip just to get to the practices.  Let's just say that the troops were very adept at changing arms on the march after a mere Day 2 ...


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## mariomike

If they marched from FYA to NPS, the traffic congestion along the parade route must have been severe. 
The reason I say that is because the entire Gardiner Expressway was shut down for spring maintenance that weekend - including the demolition of the Dowling Ave. bridge. 
The City had been warning motorists to brace themselves for the closure since February.


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## Pusser

This parade is an absolute @#$%^&! travesty.  And Jesus wept...


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