# C6 and C9



## Sh0rtbUs (17 Apr 2004)

I‘ve done all my C9 lessons, and I know the weapon inside and out now. We start on the C6 in a  few days. The C9, as many of you might agree, is a pig to clean. My question is, how does the C6 measure up as far as ease of usage? Are there more/less parts?


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## GhostRecce (17 Apr 2004)

hah well if you thought the c9 was a pig to clean...just wait
but for the most part there almost the same. few different parts. almost the same drills


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## Sh0rtbUs (17 Apr 2004)

alright. lets just hope i dont snag my finger in the feed cover on the C6 like I did the C9 though..  :mg:


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## Danny (17 Apr 2004)

The drills are pretty well the same on both except for the gas regulator.


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## casey916 (17 Apr 2004)

That newer gas regulator on the C6 is a pain in the *** because you can only change it when the barrel is cold because you actually have to take it out to change it.  As well you will learn the C6 can go into other roles as well, SF as well as co-ax.  The C9 can go on the tripod as well too, but not suggestable.  The actually mech. to changing the barrel is a bit different, you have to push in a lock that is in a different place as well as make sure the carrying handle is locked in the down position or you will find there will be a bit of trouble.


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## Jarnhamar (17 Apr 2004)

*looks around*

I heard you dont need to wear gloves while changing the new barrels. They are heat treated. Cold as an ice cube.


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## Spr.Earl (17 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Sh0rtbUs:
> [qb] I‘ve done all my C9 lessons, and I know the weapon inside and out now. We start on the C6 in a  few days. The C9, as many of you might agree, is a pig to clean. My question is, how does the C6 measure up as far as ease of usage? Are there more/less parts? [/qb]


Been on the Range yet?


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## stukirkpatrick (17 Apr 2004)

> I heard you dont need to wear gloves while changing the new barrels. They are heat treated. Cold as an ice cube.


Also, on the range, you will find its quite annoying to pick up all of the spent casings - be sure to ask your instructors for the brass magnet, it makes the job easier, and is a little-known tool.

They are obligated to let you use it, they just won‘t give it to you unless you ask


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## Cpl. Williamson (17 Apr 2004)

Keep your Sleeves rolled up and put some elastics around your cuffs just tight enough to stop casing goin down (c6)

I dont know why but C6 spent Casings always found there way Down my Sleeves Elastics would have helped


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## Spr.Earl (17 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Spr. WIlliamson:
> [qb] Keep your Sleeves rolled up and put some elastics around your cuffs just tight enough to stop casing goin down (c6)
> 
> I dont know why but C6 spent Casings always found there way Down my Sleeves Elastics would have helped [/qb]


Don‘t you mean rolled down?
  :warstory:  I still have a burn scar on my forearm from one of the little buggers getting in my sleave and trying to mate with my arm pit.


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## Cpl. Williamson (17 Apr 2004)

Yeah they‘d Bounce off the ground and Do a Perfect Triple axle into my Armpits 

Its even More Amusing to Deal with it while shooting


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## Spr.Earl (17 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Spr. WIlliamson:
> [qb] Yeah they‘d Bounce off the ground and Do a Perfect Triple axle into my Armpits
> 
> Its even More Amusing to Deal with it while shooting [/qb]


I kept firing and when finished firing rolled my sleeve up and the bugger was stuck to my skin.
2nd/3rd degree burn.
Another to watch out for is brass filings flying out of the breach when firing,we had a guy on my machine gunners course catch a piece of brass in his eye,it scrached his eye ball,he was treated and lived.


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## stukirkpatrick (17 Apr 2004)

I don‘t know about you guys, but I stay on the left side of the MG - and I‘m left handed too    

keeps me away from the ejecting casings    

edit - on second thought, it seems quite possible, especially if you aren‘t the gunner


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## portcullisguy (19 Apr 2004)

In reality, we should be wearing shooting glasses when doing ANY range work.

I don‘t know why the CF doesn‘t do this, other than I suppose, the cost (and the fact you won‘t have the fancy shooting specs on when you‘re in the field).

I may consider bringing my shooting goggles this weekend.  We are doing our C6 range weekend for the reserve DP2A support weapons course.

For that matter, my proper headphone style ear defenders might find their way into my kit bag on Friday, as well!


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## 1feral1 (19 Apr 2004)

Max flex...NOT, max frustration...YES....
Well after my 3rd try on somehow loosing posts I will endeavour to get this one out... one paragaph at a time, so bear with me as I edit accrordingly.

The C9 Minimi LMG and the Australian F89A1 LSW (light Support Weapon). I find that carbon and other debris flying into my face when using the wpn is quite distracting (and dangerous), and of the whole lot of MGs I have used, I find the Minini the only cuplrit. When we test fire I use safety glasses, but in any other case, nothing. Whether its blank or 4B1T, its always the same story.

Improvements of the Minimi? Humm, first off some major differences between the Cdn C9 and the Aussie F89. Starting from the muzzle back.

The Aussie F89 LSW has the fol:

- MAG 58 Style flash suppressor
- Thicker barrel
- no front sight
- different handguard (soon to be replaced by rail system)
- different optics (1.5X is used on an ADI designed scope)
- modified extractor, stay and spring
- Hydraulic buffer and solid butt. C9 uses a ‘dummy‘ buffer.

The F89 housing is FN made at Herstal Belgium, but many components are Australian made at ADI Lithgow. I am sure if I remember right that the C9 housing too is FN made, but Diemaco also makes components for the wpn.

About the Minimi gas regulator. We are all common with the spur on the gas reg, to ease our fingers on getting a bit frazzled when going from N to A.

The latest off the shelf Minimi‘s I have seen (East Timorese contract) have no spur, and the gas reg is just a knurled knob. which could make it easier to burn ones self, so I dont know if I would consider it an improvement. At least the spur would not be catching on anything such as tree branches, etc in the ‘J‘, etc.

However, I have seen pics of another style of barrel which has no ajustable gas reg (US M249 SAW latest type), so its direct gas, sorta like say, an M60. The ROF is supposed to be a comprimise from the ROF between the N and A setting. Less moving parts, less to break, and more soldier proof.

The sleeve saga. winter vs summer dress. here as you know the sun is very, and I mean very unforgiving, making a black t-shirt grey in a matter of weeks. Plus the fact that 1 of 2 Aussies sometime in their lives will get a form of skin cancer. Hence there is no such dress as sleeves up. Here yr around in Grn or the Fd, its always sleeves down.

Now the C6 GPMG. Its know here as the MAG 58 GSMG (General Service Machine Gun), and we have different versions, the coaxial (ASLAV), the window gun (RAN use), and the basic gun (the GSMG).

On the basic gun which is the most common (its been around for 45 years now), its an off the shelf FN buy, but we do have some converted L7‘s in the system which may still be encountered. the L7 is the UK version of the MAG 58 with slight designer differences, of which some parts interchange. Often in the system here the black UK maranyl plastic butts can still be encountered. 

The Australian MAG 58‘s are now being retro fitted with the Picatinny rail on the feed cover.

Both the Cdn C6 and the Aussie GSMG are FN made in Belgium and some minor differences may occur between them

The basic gun is also used in Infantry, and their is 3 types of bipods. They are as fol:

- factory FN aluminium type (as used on the C6)
- Australian modified BREN legs adapted to FN mount; and
- Australian modified M60 legs adapted to FN mount

The alloy FN factory bipods just cant cut the abuse here, as the legs and other parts seem to fracture, so hence the Aussie mods. The M60 legs are the most commonly found now on any mod‘d bipods.

As for the MAG 58 gas reg, well I hate it. But fear naught! There is another type of system we already use on the ASLAV, and its great. Similar to the current C9/F89 type. Two settings, N and A.

However its not interchangeable from the old type barrels to the new. How smart of FN to make more $$ off its so called ‘customers‘.

 So, hence new barrels must be purchased, and here it will happen thru attrition. I view this as a great steep forward. Again more soldier proof, less moving parts, etc.

Another version of the MAG 58, the US FN (made under licence) M240B, is really nice. It differs again as fol:

- butt is plastic
- feed cover has the Picatinny rail
- ELCAN M145 optics are used.
- shround on barrel to prevent unnecessary burns
- rail system on barrel
- improved flash suppressor

As for the bipod, it does have the appearance of the standard FN alloy type, bu it does not have the adjusting nut which is common on teh C6 and GSMG. 

Before the 25th ID‘s deployment to Iraq, I changed what I could on a few, so they would have the adjusting nut on some of their M240B‘s. I trust as you read this, they are putting them to good use     :fifty:     

To sum up,I reckon both the Minimi and the MAG 58 are great wpns when employed correctly, and used by properly trained troops. With their fire power, I would not want to be on the business end.

Before the M60 GPMG was retired from service here, I had many oppertunities to put many belts down range. I found the M60 to be more ‘armourer‘ friendly than the MAG 58, and the M60 had a good rep with the Diggers. 

The M60D is still in service here, used by the Army Avaition Wing as its the ‘door gun‘ version with the spayed grips.

Anyways, my 2bob worth of info.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Pikache (20 Apr 2004)

One more advice: Wear gloves when firing machineguns. Whenever I don‘t wear any gloves when I shoot MG, my right hand looks like it came off a meat grinder.

Speaking of brass on skin stories, nothing like trying to get rid of 5.56 casing down your shirt when you‘re trying to shoot a C9. (thank you guy shooting beside me)


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## Marauder (20 Apr 2004)

Just never forget that chicks dig scars.


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## Infanteer (20 Apr 2004)

A good machinegunner always wears gloves...that‘s right out of the PAM.


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