# MP's jurisdiction outside DND bases



## aussiechangover (20 Jul 2010)

After searching the forums for a while I was wondering what exactly are the MP's jurisdiction outside DND bases. I'm chasing up some info for someone here on shift who received a ticket off DND property. Basically not having the registration tag on plates. I'm curious how this works as to the authority for an MP to pull over a car on a civilian road. I was discussing this with others here and asked them if they would stop for an MP cruiser and the concensus was no they wouldn't on a civilian road they'd just keep going.

If someone could clarify this it would be greatly appreciated


----------



## 1feral1 (20 Jul 2010)

I do beleive CF Regular Force MPs have Canadian 'peace officer' (same for example as Municipal Police like your City PD, CN/CP Police, or RCMP) status/jurisdiction Canada wide. How this is interpeted and/or enforced, I don't know.

Would I stop? Yes, for all I know it could be for a safety issue with your car (something dragging underneath, etc).

To the best of my knowledge and if I remember correctly, Militia MPs would not normally have this status, and only bear the same rights/powers of arrest etc as any normal law abiding Canadian citizen.

Dig, it's best to do a 'wait out' until you can get the correct answer from a fully qualified well seasoned RegF MP 'vet' on here, as he/she will have the correct 'poop' on this for sure.

EDITed for spelling  :nod:


----------



## MP_Bound (20 Jul 2010)

MP's are classified as peace officers under the Criminal Code of Canada and as such are granted the same powers on and off base. 

Therefore if you were to not stop for a MP's marked vehicle, a charge of evading police can be tacked on.

The common practice for all police forces is to not shit in each others cornflakes, ie: an MP can arrest you anywhere, but will turn you over to the civilian police force in that particular area.


----------



## aussiechangover (20 Jul 2010)

thats kinda interesting didn't know that one. So i'm wondering why if that is the case the MP put a street address for a military base rather than a normal road?. Guess thats for him to fight out if the ticket will still be valid or not after that.


----------



## GAP (20 Jul 2010)

I may be out to lunch here, but in Wpg the MPs patrol the PMQ areas around 17 Wing and around Route 90 (old PPCLI base)...it was explained to me that they have the authority to enforce in their catchment area outside the base proper....my  :2c:


----------



## George Wallace (20 Jul 2010)

As I understand it, it all boils down to "Jurisdiction" and reciprocal agreements between the different agencies.  Just as you will not see Municipal, Provincial, or Federal LEOs entering onto DND property in pursuit or to conduct investigations without the permission of the Base Comd, the MPs usually don’t police non-DND properties without a similar agreement with the Municipal, Provincial or Federal authorities.


----------



## MP_Bound (20 Jul 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As I understand it, it all boils down to "Jurisdiction" and reciprocal agreements between the different agencies.  Just as you will not see Municipal, Provincial, or Federal LEOs entering onto DND property in pursuit or to conduct investigations without the permission of the Base Comd, the MPs usually don’t police non-DND properties without a similar agreement with the Municipal, Provincial or Federal authorities.



Thats exactly how it is practiced by all police forces out of respect of their fellow officers


----------



## SeanNewman (20 Jul 2010)

As for MPs in the PMQs, it is because even though PMQs are technically outside the perimeter of the base they are still quasi-DND property and thus the MP's AO.

I just spent five years in the Pet PMQs and was reminded over and over that it was still base property and everything that happened was just like if I were in the shacks.

If I left my garbage out without a lid, CFHA would send a letter to my CO.

If there was any sort of criminal act or suspected act going on, it was _always_ the MPs who would be there and I can count on one hand the amount of times I saw an RCMP car in the area (compared to seeing MP cars 5 times per day).


----------



## medicineman (20 Jul 2010)

To answer the OP's question, often MP's and local PD's have agreements to police certain areas of highways/streets outside of Bases - Kingston for instance has a highway that bisects the Base - they likely share jurisdiction with the Kingston City Police to deal with that area of highway. 

MM


----------



## medicineman (20 Jul 2010)

Someone left me a gentle PM informing me that there is no such agreement with KPD/MP's CFB Kingston....so I guess I was talking out of my backside  - as such, I stand corrected.  I guess we're back to where we started from...

MM


----------



## dapaterson (20 Jul 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> If there was any sort of criminal act or suspected act going on, it was _always_ the MPs who would be there and I can count on one hand the amount of times I saw an RCMP car in the area *(compared to seeing MP cars 5 times per day)*.




So you were right by the Tim Hortons?


----------



## lawandorder (21 Jul 2010)

MP_Bound said:
			
		

> MP's are classified as peace officers under the Criminal Code of Canada and as such are granted the same powers on and off base.
> 
> Therefore if you were to not stop for a MP's marked vehicle, a charge of evading police can be tacked on.
> 
> The common practice for all police forces is to not crap in each others cornflakes, ie: an MP can arrest you anywhere, but will turn you over to the civilian police force in that particular area.



Sorry, you’re a little wrong on this.  MP’s are only granted “Peace Officer” status while on DND property.  If they are off DND property to say, check on an armouries or other DND establishment, they are not afforded this status while in transit between the two.  If you finish recruit school and make it to the Academy, you’ll learn under what Canadian Law and Statues MP’s can stop off of DND property, and what ASJ-004 has to say about it.

To answer the question, the MP could be out of jurisdiction.  However, if the MP noticed the offence on the property, and say your friend just turned off base, then the MP is probably still in the clear.  Depends on the JP that hears the case if it goes to traffic court, some are CF friendly, some aren’t.

I think the MP’s at CFB Trenton has jurisdiction to enforce on the provincial highway that goes through the wing, although I/you would have to confirm that.


----------



## Klinkaroo (21 Jul 2010)

As I was informed by someone, a lot of MPs have the authority to enforce the Highway Traffic Act of their province anywhere, even while in transit. One thing to note here is that not everything that you do wrong falls under the same Codes. There is the Criminal Code of Canada, Highway Traffic Acts, Fisheries Protection Act, ect... Officer can be given permission to enforce certain acts but not others necessarily. A Fisheries Officer for example has the duty to enforce the Fisheries Protection Act but can still stop you if you are assaulting someone.

P.S. Just pay the fine, if you did something wrong, you don't have a good excuse, stop crying and grow up and pay it. Stop nitpicking at technicalities to get out of a punishment. If you would have listened and followed the rules this wouldn't have ever happened.


----------



## jollyjacktar (21 Jul 2010)

I have been out of the trade since 99.  MP were considered specially appointed personnel and had peace officer status on military property, or where there was a military nexus or connection.  This meant that MP as long as there was this nexus they had authority, world wide, I conducted investigations and police duties in Puerto Rico for example.  It has changed now, but back in the early days of Yugo, MP were the police officers for the UN.  CIVPOL, such as RCMP members had no authority and were in effect JAFOs (just another f***n observer), this as I have said has since changed.  

Off DND property we did not deal as a rule with civilians unless there was an agreement with a civilian authority.  In my day, Suffield had an agreement with the Alberta Gov't to police on the stretch of provincial highway that bisected the base.  If we came across an impaired driver off base we would hold for the local police to take over.  However, there were JFOs (joint force operations) such as anti-drug teams, anti-organized crime etc that were in effect with combined forces federal/provincial/municipal across the country and MP were regular participants.  If you strayed onto our property, you were ours.  The only other police force that had equal jurisdiction on our turf was the RCMP, however local police were routinely given permission to come onto the property and conduct their investigations.

Some crimes were always jointly investigated with local police such as murder cases.  There was changes in the wind during the 90s to blur borders and jurisdictions following some cases and the public expectations and well optics.  I am sure that things have changed greatly since my leaving that Trade.  Any current MP personnel  please feel free to correct as needed to make it current.


----------



## lawandorder (22 Jul 2010)

Jolly things are still like that in regards to jurisdiction anywhere a CF member is.  If a CF member gets in a fight downtown with a bunch of civies, the locals have jurisdiction primarily, but they can swing the call over the MP's in regards to CF member if they choose.  The local police services in the towns surrounding the bases are pretty good on that letting the MP's deal with the CF guys, and lets be honest less work for them too.  At the end of the day the individual dets have different level of cooperation with their civi counterparts, but for the most part its positive.

And to Klinkaroo MP's can't enforce HTA's anywhere, regardless of what you, or even they were told/believe.


----------



## DulongC (31 Aug 2010)

It really depends on the province and the local court. Some provinces recognize MP's under their 'Peace Officer Act' and therefore allow them to enforce provincial statutes (Traffic Safety Act, Liquor Act, etc). MP's are Peace Officers under the Criminal Code of Canada, this does not change just because they are off base (regardless of what the ASJ-004 says). However, because they are outside their jurisdiction they lose the ability to charge (traffic ticket is a charge). It is a common misperception that because an MP is outside his jurisdiction your no longer a peace officer. As was mentioned above, if the MP noted the infraction on the base and was not able to stop the vehicle until after they had left DND property they are still writing a ticket for an offence that occurred within their jurisdiction (hence why the location of occurrence on the ticket is on the base) and is therefore allowed. I have done this on several occasions, and the court has always allowed it. That being said a different judge at a different court may see it differently. When it comes to a vehicle stop outside our Jurisdiction, we still have authority to stop a vehicle and detain them until the local police force or jurisdiction arrives. The main factor on out of jurisdiction traffic stops is the severity of the offence and the risk to the public. If the driver is operating his vehicle in a manner which places the public at risk then we can stop the vehicle, ID the driver, contact the police force of jurisdiction and detain them until they arrive and write the ticket. (i.e. I'm on my way to the armouries and I see a vehicle run a red light almost causing an accident in the intersection as vehicles have to slam on their breaks. I can stop them and call Calgary Police Traffic Div and if they have an officer available they will come out and my statement to them gives them the grounds required to write the ticket.) By not stopping for the MP off base, the vehicle is still an emergency vehicle and you would be guilty of failing to yield to an emergency vehicle. You can't just keep driving, they might not even be pulling you over they could be responding to some other emergency. If you feel a police officer is doing something wrong that is what a court is for.


----------

