# Should I go to College?



## Cammyyy (30 Sep 2010)

Currently I am in grade 12, and I'm starting to think about college. I noticed in the college courses book a program called Military Arts and Science. After school I would like to join the Army as Infantry, and I'm wondering if it would help to go to college and get my Diploma in Military Arts and Science.


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## readytogo (30 Sep 2010)

A college diploma is above and beyond the basic entrance requirements for infantry(as i understand them), that being said it would make you more competitive upon application. :nod:  inmo post secondary is never a bad thing, although you may want to look at something that will create options for you if the military doesnt work out or for when you release/retire.

 :2c:
RTG


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## Chilme (30 Sep 2010)

I 2nd everything RTG says.  You may also want to go into a recruiting centre and find out if they are hiring in the Infantry.  With the Afghanistan mission winding down in the next 10 months there will be a surplus of Combat arms personnel.  If they can't foresee hiring any infanteers, it may be beneficial to wait out the dry period by taking a college course.  As RTG said, it will only make your application look better.


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## medicineman (30 Sep 2010)

Which College was this?

MM


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## readytogo (30 Sep 2010)

Thats true MM I know RMC has a degree to that nature but ive never heard of a diploma in military arts and science( in AB anyway)

RTG


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## medicineman (30 Sep 2010)

There was a diploma program announced not long ago with I want to say  Algonquin College for serving members to get a diploma based on prior service courses and some of their own combined.  Was designed to give some middle management training and such to NCO's.

MM


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## readytogo (30 Sep 2010)

You definetly want to check in with a recruiter, I spoke to one the other day who told me that they are accepting applications for ROTP next year and SELECT reserve positions.  Other than that everything is in a holding pattern until april...glad i got in when i did :nod:

RTG


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## George Wallace (30 Sep 2010)

Cammyyy said:
			
		

> Currently I am in grade 12, and I'm starting to think about college. I noticed in the college courses book a program called Military Arts and Science. After school I would like to join the Army as Infantry, and I'm wondering if it would help to go to college and get my Diploma in Military Arts and Science.



We always advise one to better their education.  Sadly some of the replies to your post do not reflect that.   :-[



> ........ but ive never heard of ........





> .......... inmo post secondary is .....





> ........in a holding pattern until april...glad i got in when i did :nod:




Please do not take the replies as an indicator of what one is to expect.


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## 2010newbie (30 Sep 2010)

Durham College offers an online Military Arts and Science diploma. One of the requirements is that you currently have a military status. Some of the courses are provided by Durham (all general education type classes) and the remainder are the 5 OPME's that are provided by RMC via distance learning.

https://myplace.durhamcollege.ca/durham/program.do?from=subject&programID=1389


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## pudd13 (30 Sep 2010)

Yes! You should go to college! Post secondary is always a good thing to have, whether you consider a career in the military or not. Having a degree in any discipline in the Canadian Forces can open the door to many more opportunities within the CF, namely commissioned roles. Schooling is never a bad idea in my opinion. You'll be expected to learn new things at all times throughout your military career, so the more experience you have learning, the better you'll be at it when it is your job.


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## Wookilar (1 Oct 2010)

Quite a few colleges were lining up to get behind the Diploma in Military Arts & Sciences. Last I had anything to do with it (on the far far outer edge of the periphery of it) was 2008 so I do not know how many schools actually came on line. It looked like a very interesting idea for anyone looking at doing some work past the OPME's. And for someone looking to get in over the next couple of years, it certainly would not hurt.

Wook

Link: http://www.ontariolearn.com/dmasc/


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## Dou You (1 Oct 2010)

As far as I know most trades for Reg force are closed until April (from reading on here), but I was wondering if that includes the Res force?  **Nevermind, I just saw the part of readtogo's post stating only SELECT Reserve positions are available.** Thanks for the info RTG.

The reason I ask is to inform the OP that they could join the reserves (if possible right now) and get some military experience while going to school for Military Arts and Science. They would also get paid because it would be their part-time job, they would have their education partially subsidized (up to $2000 a year), and it looks good after college when/if you CT(Component Transfer) into the Reg force (which I assume you would want to do). The only thing that is iffy about that is the CT, as it take varied amounts of time for each person, so it could be a while before you would be in the Reg force. But I believe the benefits outweigh the CT problems. 

I just thought I'd inform you, and by the way, that college program sounds pretty interesting. It would definitely help not only your application if you choose to do college without the Reserves, but also yourself, by increasing your military knowledge which would help you to become a better soldier. Good luck!


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## Chilme (1 Oct 2010)

Speaking of Reserve Jobs.  Here is the newly launched Reserve Employee Opportunities Websites for the CF.  Probably a good site to bookmark.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/reo-oer/


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## Cammyyy (2 Oct 2010)

Last year I had the chance to take a 4 credit co-op with the Oshawa Reserve unit, and I tried for it but then it was cancelled for an indefinite period of time. When me and my bud (who also tried for the co-op) went to the Recruiting Centre in Oshawa, we were told the only hiring that unit did was through the Co-op, so I'll probably check out the Peterborough unit. Thanks for that Reserve Employee Opportunities site Chilme


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## Cammyyy (2 Oct 2010)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Which College was this?
> 
> MM


It was a college handbook of all the courses, and the colleges that carried them. I believe it's Durham, Conestoga, Seneca, Fleming, and Algonquin colleges.


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## Vimy_gunner (2 Oct 2010)

I'd personally recommend going after a regular degree at a Canadian university, along with doing as many advanced military courses as you can along the way while training in the Reserves.  A regular degree gives you a nice backup - whereas a Military science degree doesn't sound like it will help you outside the military. The army recognizes education of all kinds at the university level and uses that standard for promotions (what I've heart/been told). I would think that with a degree from a Cdn university and the advanced courses in military that you'd qualify for those advancements in rank just the same if not better. That and as far as I know you don't get into officers training without being in university. College wasn't good enough standard for me to apply for it last year. In university now, but of-course it all depends on what you want.


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## Chilme (2 Oct 2010)

Cammyyy,

It would also be in your best interest to go speak with a recruiter and find out about Subsidized Education.  The Canadian Forces will pay for you to go to school (tuition, books, sumer job, and a paycheck).  You just have to find a program they accept and following serve (mandatory) l.5 times the months you were subsidized in school for with the military.  Its a nice deal.  The only debt you have in the end is time to the military.  If you're already planning on being there, that time is nothing to you.


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## SevenSixTwo (4 Oct 2010)

Cammyyy said:
			
		

> Currently I am in grade 12, and I'm starting to think about college. I noticed in the college courses book a program called Military Arts and Science. After school I would like to join the Army as Infantry, and I'm wondering if it would help to go to college and get my Diploma in Military Arts and Science.



I am currently doing a Diploma in Military Arts and Science. This Diploma IS what you want if you want to be a NCO. If you want to be an officer then guess what? RMC is recognizing the Diploma of Military Arts & Science as credits at their school towards a *Degree* in Military Arts & Science. Which means if you wanted to be an officer you could just do another year of education at RMC.

http://www.niagaracollege.ca/programs/dmas_0590/ 


"Students can earn credits toward a RMC Bachelor of Military Arts and Science (DMASc), General Arts, or Honours Arts and BMASc degrees."


http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/dmasc-dascm/index-eng.asp

"Military Equivalencies

Members who have completed specific RMC DMASc courses may be eligible to receive a waiver for the Distance Learning component of the following Non-Commissioned Member Professional Development (NCMPD) courses:

■Intermediate Leadership Qualification (ILQ)
■Module 2 and 3 of the Advanced Leadership Qualification (ALQ)
■Chief Petty Officer 1st Class/Chief Warrant Officer Qualification (CPO/CWOQ) "

Also, under the same link:

"Credit at RMC
The combination of DMASc courses listed in the table below may earn up to 6 RMC and 5 university transfer credits toward the RMC Bachelor of Military Arts and Science (General or Honours) and the Bachelor of Arts (General or Honours). Please contact plar@rmc.ca for further information regarding credit toward degrees offered at RMC.
"


Feel free to throw some MP my way for getting you this info I need it to fuel my Afghan Operations addiction Muahahahaha.


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## Cammyyy (5 Oct 2010)

sadly i dont play Afghan Operations....Also I'm not looking at becoming an officer, but a soldier


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## Journeyman (5 Oct 2010)

SevenSixTwo said:
			
		

> Which means if you wanted to be an officer you could just do another year of education at RMC.


No, you would have to apply and compete in the same manner as everyone else, submit the requisite paperwork for Prior Learning Assessment and Recognition (PLAR), and RMC would inform the applicant what additional education is required, _if_ they were deemed a suitable applicant.

Re-read what you posted, and you'll see expressions such as "DMASc courses listed in the table below may earn _up to_  6 RMC and 5 university transfer credits," and "contact plar@rmc.ca for further information  regarding credit toward degrees offered at RMC."

Not quite the same as doing a couple of years at Niagara College (or wherever) and then _simply_ doing another year at RMC.




> Feel free to throw some MP my way for getting you this info I need it to fuel my Afghan Operations addiction.


For giving out incomplete, misleading information, perhaps MilPoints should be deducted......many, many MilPoints


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## Vimy_gunner (6 Oct 2010)

Cammyyy said:
			
		

> sadly i dont play Afghan Operations....Also I'm not looking at becoming an officer, but a soldier



You do realize that all soldiers become officers if the progress in their field with some skill. You'd just end up being an officer under the NCM stream - unless you're one of those extremely rare (if existent) people who turn down promotions?


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## George Wallace (6 Oct 2010)

Vimy_gunner said:
			
		

> You do realize that all soldiers become officers if the progress in their field with some skill. You'd just end up being an officer under the NCM stream - unless you're one of those extremely rare (if existent) people who turn down promotions?



Now I know that this comment is going to be very confusing for many, so can you expand you your thought processes in making this statement?


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## Cammyyy (6 Oct 2010)

Vimy_gunner said:
			
		

> You do realize that all soldiers become officers if the progress in their field with some skill. You'd just end up being an officer under the NCM stream - unless you're one of those extremely rare (if existent) people who turn down promotions?


Oh I didnt know that. I thought to be an officer I had to go to RMC, which I cant and have no desire to.


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## Journeyman (6 Oct 2010)

op:  This should be entertaining.....


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## tabernac (6 Oct 2010)

Cammyyy said:
			
		

> Oh I didnt know that. I thought to be an officer I had to go to RMC, which I cant and have no desire to.



RMC is simple, and not difficult if you push yourself early on. If you _think_ you can't hack it at the charm school, mil life may not be for you. RMC is only the beginning.


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## Cammyyy (7 Oct 2010)

oh I know but by can't I mean the majority of my courses are college level, and isnt RMC actually a university?


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## readytogo (7 Oct 2010)

Yes RMC is a university


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## pudd13 (7 Oct 2010)

I just went straight into university from high school. Maybe somebody can explain to me that difference between college courses and university courses. Are college courses just courses at a post-secondary level that don't necessary lead to a degree?


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## readytogo (7 Oct 2010)

Never taken any university level courses but as I understand it college courses and uni courses are on completely seperate playing fields (not sure if one is more difficult than the other) That being said you can often take university level courses while attending college and transfer those credits over.  My :2c:


RTG


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## The_Falcon (8 Oct 2010)

readytogo said:
			
		

> Never taken any university level courses but as I understand it college courses and uni courses are on completely seperate playing fields (not sure if one is more difficult than the other) That being said you can often take university level courses while attending college and transfer those credits over.  My :2c:
> 
> 
> RTG



It depends actually, most colleges/universities have agreement in place governing how this works.  In some cases a 2 year College Diploma in a specific field can grant you 2 years towards a Baccalaureate Degree in  related field (example, Diploma in Fitness and Lifestyle Management -> 4 Kinesiology degree).  Other times any diploma can count for credit for any degree.  It also depends on your grades, and the course content.  When you get a course outline KEEP IT, without one it is a PAIN to get transfer credit.  There are no real hard and fast rule, like I said each institution is different, and everyone of the will offer something different for transfer credits, which is why it is critical to READ THOROUGHLY the program outlines and course calendars to make sure that yes, you can in fact transfer credit and not start at the bottom again.




			
				pudd13 said:
			
		

> I just went straight into university from high school. Maybe somebody can explain to me that difference between college courses and university courses. Are college courses just courses at a post-secondary level that don't necessary lead to a degree?


Community Colleges/Technical Colleges, offer programs predominantly 1,2,3 year programs that lead to certificates, diplomas, advanced diplomas (in Ontario anyway).  The programs are usually technical programs, in that they provide a very focused direction to learn a specific skill (or skills in a specific field), and aside from a couple of general education electives, you program's course of study is laid out for you, you have no real choice in the matter.  Most courses are practical in nature, with very little in the way of theory.

University Courses/Programs, are the opposite.  Heavy on the theory, and greater liberty (most cases) to pick and choose the courses you to, in order to complete your degree.


Some Colleges may offer Degrees/Joint Degrees, but these are invariable done in conjunction with a participating university, the idea is to offer the theoretical/critical thinking component of university, with the hands on skills/practical training offered by college.

Here is a link to all the colleges in Ontario that offer the Military Arts and Science Diploma, and in what fashion they offer it.

http://www.ontariocolleges.ca/portal/page/portal/ONTCOL/SearchResult?Ntt=Military&Ntx=mode%20matchallany&Ntk=EnglishAll&QSo.x=1&QSo.y=1&metaTagParam=nil


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