# CFB Kingston - Scared of needles?



## freakerz (9 Mar 2011)

Was wondering today... what's up with military people not showing up to give blood? They came up short of like 10 people today at the Museum... 40(!) was their quota.
(in all fairness, they usually meet their quota on Fridays - normal blood drive day)

Queen's get 400+ donations in a day, and a 8000+ people base can't get 40? Really confused...

So... why don't people give blood? Isn't fair to say that blood given here eventually end up going overseas and may save soldiers' lives? (actual question)

Lady there said CFB Kingston "committed" to 170 donations a year (part of some "partnership") .. 170 donations again, for a 8000+ base... doesn't it seem low and easily achievable?


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## PuckChaser (9 Mar 2011)

Advertising seemed pretty low, I only knew there was a blood drive because to get to work I pass the Museum.


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## Rheostatic (9 Mar 2011)

Afghanistan being a malaria risk zone might have something to do with it. Those who deploy cannot donate for 1-3 years after departing a malaria risk zone.
http://www.bloodservices.ca/CentreApps/Internet/UW_V502_MainEngine.nsf/page/E_malaria-deferrals?OpenDocument


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## dapaterson (9 Mar 2011)

There's a fairly long list of disqualifications - if you spent too much time in the UK, no go.  If you've received a vaccine recently, no go.  If you've travelled t oany one of a number of countries with high risk for some pathogens recently, no go.


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## yoman (10 Mar 2011)

From what I can tell RMC gets a descent turnout every time I see them at the college.


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## Gunner98 (10 Mar 2011)

freakerz said:
			
		

> So... why don't people give blood? Isn't fair to say that blood given here eventually end up going overseas and may save soldiers' lives? (actual question)



Simple answer - very unlikely.  Blood banking and the specific products used is a very complex issue that is unlikely to be discussed on these means.   Different countries have different restrictions on the screening of blood products.  The Role 3 hospital in KAF is under US command.  Some interesting reading here on US military using walking blood banks that will give you some clues:

http://www.faqs.org/periodicals/201003/1992518601.html


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## PMedMoe (10 Mar 2011)

I have to agree with the lack of advertising.  I didn't know about it until I ran into a friend from Base who had donated.  I would have, but I recently donated and am not allowed to donate until 11 Apr.


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## 211RadOp (10 Mar 2011)

Didn't know about it until I read this post.  Having said that, since I had a bad experience at a Blood Doner Clinic in Halifax, I have not donated.  I was however part of the walking blood bank in KAF last time I was there.


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## Journeyman (10 Mar 2011)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Having said that, since I had a bad experience at a Blood Doner Clinic in Halifax, I have not donated.


I used to donate blood every four months, then I too had a bad doner experience, in Kingston; Canadian Blood Services will never see me again.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Mar 2011)

Bottom line is...........it's VOL...UNT...ARY.

Failure to draw donors can't be placed 100% on the same, and chiding them seldom works.


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## Halifax Tar (10 Mar 2011)

freakerz said:
			
		

> Queen's get 400+ donations in a day, and a 8000+ people base can't get 40? Really confused...



I was born and raised in Kingston, first posting was Kingston and I'm posted back this summer...I find it very hard to believe there are 8000+ people employed on the base...


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## Strike (10 Mar 2011)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I was born and raised in Kingston, first posting was Kingston and I'm posted back this summer...I find it very hard to believe there are 8000+ people employed on the base...



It's the largest employer in Kingston and the second largest military base (by personnel) in Canada.  Remember, this includes RMC.


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## Journeyman (10 Mar 2011)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> ...I find it very hard to believe there are 8000+ people employed on the base...


Try crossing the causeway at morning/evening 'rush hour.' The never-ending debate about building a third crossing _isn't_ because of the crowd-drawing ability of the C&E Museum.


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## dapaterson (10 Mar 2011)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> I had a bad experience at a Blood Doner Clinic in Halifax, I have not donated.



I had a bad donair experience in Halifax once...


I am concerned that they're changing their processes, and reducing the number of nurses on site.  Oddly enough, CBS is having trouble filling part-time nursing positions - so rather than re-jigging their employment strucutre and operations to provide full-time employment, they're replacing nurses with less skilled technicians of various sorts (with a single nurse at a donor clinic).  I guess they need to save money somehwere, I mean, this guy doesn't come cheap - $651K in 2009 (http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2010/otherp10.html).  (Indeed, for such a small organization, they seem to have a lot of vice presidents and medical directors in the $280K+ range)


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## dapaterson (10 Mar 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> It's the largest employer in Kingston and _*the second largest military base (by personnel) in Canada*_.  Remember, this includes RMC.



Er, no.

Bases with larger Reg F strengths include CFSU(O), Halifax, Valcartier, Petawawa, Edmonton, Gagetown and Esquimalt.

Bigger than Trenton - yes.  Bigger than Shilo, OK.  Bigger than Bagotville, Borden, and Cold Lake, Check.


But not #2.


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## Strike (10 Mar 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Er, no.
> 
> Bases with larger Reg F strengths include CFSU(O), Halifax, Valcartier, Petawawa, Edmonton, Gagetown and Esquimalt.
> 
> ...



Employer.  I did not specify Reg, Res or civilian.


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## dapaterson (10 Mar 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> Employer.  I did not specify Reg, Res or civilian.



Still incorrect.  The total Reg+Res (full and part-time)+public service populations, or Reg+public service populations, of Ottawa, Halifax, Petawawa, Valcartier, Esquimalt and Gagetown are all larger than the same populations of CFB Kingston.

While these figures ignore students not posted to the bases (so RMC is counted as Kingston pers, but CFSCE students are not), that should not be material to such discussions.

(I'm using the DWAN reports, as of 28 Feb 2011, from http://dhrim04.desc.mil.ca/engraph/statistical_e.asp?cat=1#civ, for making these comparisons, looking at the attribution of pers by support base)


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## freakerz (10 Mar 2011)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> Afghanistan being a malaria risk zone might have something to do with it. Those who deploy cannot donate for 1-3 years after departing a malaria risk zone.
> http://www.bloodservices.ca/CentreApps/Internet/UW_V502_MainEngine.nsf/page/E_malaria-deferrals?OpenDocument





			
				dapaterson said:
			
		

> There's a fairly long list of disqualifications - if you spent too much time in the UK, no go.  If you've received a vaccine recently, no go.  If you've travelled t oany one of a number of countries with high risk for some pathogens recently, no go.



Wow, surprised the nurses didn't know about that.. I'll mention it next time!
Edit: I'm still surprised PATs didn't go, I did see a few of them, but out of the hundreds there are.. anyways.. I was just shocked they couldn't get 40 people out of all of us.

The RMC does give more too, RMC & Queen's were their top donators.

The advertising does suck, I only know about it because they put a sign at the Timmies.

Thanks guys for the answers. The 8000+ people is just something Captain & MWO down there said.. and a number staffs keep pointing out.


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## Strike (10 Mar 2011)

Hijack:
DP -- the comment is based on what a former CLS told us once during one of his visits while he was CLS.
End Hijack

As for the clinics, during my 2 years in K-town the only reason I knew there was a blood drive going on was because my coworker donated religiously.  Never saw any advertising.


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## dapaterson (10 Mar 2011)

Hijack - Well, Kingston does have the second highest number of General Officers of any base, between CDA HQ, RMC, LFDTS and 1 Can Div...


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## Infanteer (10 Mar 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I had a bad donair experience in Halifax once...



I did too - the thing was cold and I think I got food poisoning from it.


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## Rheostatic (10 Mar 2011)

> freakerz:
> Wow, surprised the nurses didn't know about that.. I'll mention it next time!


Of course the CBS staff know about it; they're responsible for screening donors.


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## muffin (10 Mar 2011)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I was born and raised in Kingston, first posting was Kingston and I'm posted back this summer...I find it very hard to believe there are 8000+ people employed on the base...



Just got confirmation from base commander's staff - reg,res, and civ - including all lodger units - 8000 is almost bang on.


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## Gunner98 (10 Mar 2011)

Another hijack - I have heard this numerical fiction many times during my 4 months in Kingston in fall 2010.  

Someone should remind the Kingston folks that you can't include all "Div Troops" and OPME students in your population numbers.  

Someone needs to be asking these questions: How friggin big is the CFJSR now?  How many reserve and cadet units are included in this number?  Are we including RMC civilian students, people with gym memberships and Calian employees?

How does such a small base health centre serve so many troops with so few resources - no lab, no X-ray/DI, very small Mental Health clinic.  This must be the healthiest bunch of troops - they never get injured or ill?


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## medicineman (10 Mar 2011)

They just go to KGH.

MM


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## Strike (10 Mar 2011)

I went to Blazer Physio at the MRFC.   ;D


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## Gunner98 (10 Mar 2011)

Interesting List of units

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/asu_kingston/military.aspx

Military Establishments

Regular Units 
CF Joint Headquarters (CFJHQ)
CF Joint Signal Regiment (CFJSR)
CF Joint Support Group (CFJSG)
2 Electronic Warfare Squadron (2 EW SQN)
Land Force Doctrine and Training System (LFDTS)
Directorate of Land Concepts and Designs (DLCD)
Canadian Forces School of Communications and Electronics (CFSCE)
Military Communications and Electronics Museum
1 Wing Headquarters
Canadian Defence Academy (CDA)
Command Cell
Chief of Staff
Directorate of Training and Education (DTE)
Directorate of Learning and Innovation (DLI)
Canadian Forces Leadership Institute (CFLI)
Canadian Forces Military Law Centre (CFMLC)
Canadian Military Journal (CMJ)
Canadian Forces College (CFC) - Toronto
Canadian Forces Management Development School (CFMDS)
Canadian Forces Language School (CFLS) - Gatineau
RMC St-Jean
Royal Military College of Canada (RMC)
LFTSP/ATWOP
Continuing Studies Program at RMC (DCS)
Canadian Forces School of Military Intelligence (CFSMI)
Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre Detachment Kingston
Canadian Forces Crypto Maintenance Unit
Canadian Forces National Counter-Intelligence Unit Detachment Kingston
1 Dental Unit — Detachment Kingston
33 CF Health Services Centre
MPO 305 Vimy Post Office
Civilian Human Resources Office
Kingston Garrison Learning and Career Centre
Dispute Resolution Centre
2 Area Support Group Signal Squadron Detachment Kingston
Canadian Forces Housing Agency
Military Police Platoon

Reserve Units
HMCS Cataraqui
The Princess of Wales Own Regiment
The Brockville Rifles
772 Electronic Warfare Squadron Kingston

Cadet Units
33 St. Lawrence Royal Canadian Sea, (613) 541-6000, ext. 6119
HMCS Ontario Sea Cadet Summer Training Centre - (613) 541-5010 ext. 4681
Cadets - (613) 541-6000 ext. 6119
2857 PWOR Army Cadet Corps - (613) 546-4209
58 Air Cadet Squadron - (613) 541-5010 ext. 4242


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## armyvern (10 Mar 2011)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Someone needs to be asking these questions: How friggin big is the CFJSR now?



We are the largest 1st line Unit in Canada.  

(But, Gagetown holds 8800 sets of clothing docs for pers, so is larger than Kingston).

Edited to add: Me thinks Kingston may be counting all those CTC folks in their numbers as LFDTS ... too bad that tonne of people and all those schools and clothing docs are actually situated in and supported by Gagetown [if that is how they are bumping their numbers so large].


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## dapaterson (11 Mar 2011)

muffin said:
			
		

> Just got confirmation from base commander's staff - reg,res, and civ - including all lodger units - 8000 is almost bang on.



They should cross-reference with PeopleSoft - because the number there is about 2K less.  and Ottawa, Halifax, and others are all larger according to the same system.

Or, as Simian Turner said, they're counting things like CFC Toronto, CMR St Jean, CFLS Ottawa and others that are not dependencies of Kingston.


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## muffin (11 Mar 2011)

They probably have CFC and CFLS etc on the list because of CDA. If you look at the Gagetown site they list CFSCE under CTC, and if I'm not mistaken CFSMI shows up under Borden ... I suppose it all depends on the responsibilities of the org doing the counting.


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## armyvern (11 Mar 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Or, as Simian Turner said, they're counting things like CFC Toronto, CMR St Jean, CFLS Ottawa and others that are not dependencies of Kingston.



Them, and all those people actually located at:

CTC HQ;
Tac School;
School of Foot;
Arty School;
Armd School; and 
CFSME (all located in Gagetown);

CFSEME (located in Borden); and

Land Advanced Warfare (CPC) located in Trenton etc etc

under their Land Forces Doctrine & Training System numbers ...



Why, it's just like manipulating statistics ... until someone attempts to muster them all on the parade square in Kingston to find out they aren't actually there. Wonder if that would be worth a couple thousand AWOL charges?  :blotto:


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## Infanteer (11 Mar 2011)

I'm confused - are we supposed to hate Kingston now or are we working to defend it?  :blotto:


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## armyvern (11 Mar 2011)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I'm confused - are we supposed to hate Kingston now or are we working to defend it?  :blotto:



Trying to figure out how many multitudes would actually show up on a mandatory parade in Kingston for "all" claimed Units.

 >


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## PuckChaser (11 Mar 2011)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> How does such a small base health centre serve so many troops with so few resources - no lab, no X-ray/DI, very small Mental Health clinic.  This must be the healthiest bunch of troops - they never get injured or ill?



Poorly. Although they do have X-Ray, just not sure how often its open.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Mar 2011)

This started out about a lack of blood donors, dealt with, no one cares.

Tangented off to some sort of dick measuring contest about how many people are in Kingston. Again, who really cares?

No more bandwidth to be wasted on this
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

Milnet.ca Staff


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