# Anti-War Demonstrations - Halifax



## jmackenzie_15 (18 Mar 2006)

What does everybody think of this? I was in halifax last night and saw all kinds of flyers and posters.... I came home today and im watching the coverage on CTV of the whole thing....

im hearing phrases like
"american imperial takeover" and "democracy is not through killing"

None of these people know what theyre talking about and it drives me crazy.

Although I was happy to see some people on the other end of the fence, one of them a retired army officer, saying that we should be supporting the CF troops overseas and not underminding the mission.

They want the immediate withdrawal of all military forces from Afghanistan and Iraq... I wonder if any of these people realize what would happen if that were to take place.

Had to vent.


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## jmackenzie_15 (18 Mar 2006)

One more thing, bear with me:

In particular on this news broadcast, im disgusted CTV would allow such uninformed ignorant people to be broadcast all over atlantic canada spouting their nonsense... one woman in particular on the news basically described our troops shooting that taxi driver as a cold blooded killing, she even said "canadian troops are killing innocent civilians".

She has NO idea what shes talking about, what the circumstances were, at ALL. Not only is that bad enough, its a slap in the face to the serving members overseas who were in that position and im quite certain the feel terrible about being forced to fire on someone, but come on. Know the facts.

Whatever happened to the "informed opinion" ? 

I wish someone would organize a Pro-Afghanistan rally all about supporting the troops and wishing they come home safe, rather than telling people over a televised news cast theyre killing innocent people and that its "no way to bring democracy to afghanistan."

/RANT OFF


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## Cpl.Banks (18 Mar 2006)

Its apparent that the hippies have been burning something a bit more toxic than usual in their communal bon fire and their hemp clothes absorbed  it and helped the substance enter their body and eventually their *gasp* brain. 

Sarcasm aside,I'm no military genius but I would think destroying all sense of order in Iraq and Afghanistan wouldn't be helping the Afghans all that much. I think this is a kick in the pants to all the brave men and women serving overseas not just in Afghanistan. Hippies...go figure.

UBIQUE!!!!


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## derael (18 Mar 2006)

Yeah, a few days ago I heard a comment from one of these activists that went something like: "We're not peacekeepers anymore; we're war keepers". The pure ignorance of these people to the facts of the situation is enough to make anyone want to start their own counter rallies.

Although I did find it rather funny that most of the people in these protests did look like your typical hippies with their lacking hygiene and desperate need for haircut.


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## JasonH (18 Mar 2006)

American imperlism sounds about right mind you.

Watch "Why we fight" newly released movie, awesome in my mind.


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## derael (18 Mar 2006)

I just don't get how some of these people can even think traditional peacekeeping would work in Afghanistan. You would assume that they would eventually start thinking before they speak...let alone marching down "main street" with life size posters and drawing attention to themselves. Call me crazy but that kind of stupidity should surely not be displayed publicly....


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## HDE (19 Mar 2006)

Our local university got out something in the range of 30 people for their anti-war rally; pretty stirring stuff on a campus of about 20,000.  I'd hate to see how they define a failure  ;D.  Apparently a busload of about 50 local "activists" headed to the big rally in Hogtown today.  Did I mention we're a city of 100,000 plus?  :nana:


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## Guest (19 Mar 2006)

i missed something, what's wrong with protesting again? >   did you realize that all governments are made up of people just like you, me, your girlfriend and your crazy friend?  they don't always make the best decisions or tell you why they're doing it.  its not a sinister conspiracy thing, its just the way things get done.  think about it.  come on, protest ain't such a bad thing?  embrace it.  these are just people who give a sh :bullet:t about whats going on in the world.  if you want to debate them go ahead, but don't get all up tight.  show a bit of confidence in what you are doing and do what you do if your views don't stand up to debate then why are you holding them?  and don't be so arrogant as to suppose you're that much wiser than the rest of the world that you can tell people when to shut their mouths.  or somebody might come and throatpunch you wiseguy. :threat:


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## jmackenzie_15 (19 Mar 2006)

I know if it were me overseas right now, and I saw that, I would be furious at the ignorance.

Regardless, I still am because lots of our buddies are over there right now with their lives on the line every day for a people that need our help, and brainless michael moore peons are walking around the streets with signs calling them murderers and baby killers and war mongerers.

Thank god they are the huge minority.


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## Guest (19 Mar 2006)

Whoa, calm down slick.  What i don't understand is why you think it is such a great idea for the CF to be fighting for the right of shitbricks to express their opinion.  Seems like a waste of time if you ask me.  Maybe our forefathers should have fought for oil instead.  Now don't go and shit your drawers, son.  I'm just pulling your leg cause you got half a brain.


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (19 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> why you think it is such a great idea for the CF to be fighting for the right of shitbricks to express their opinion.



 Obviously you are yet another one of the many misinformed public who has come up with their own reasons as to why the CF does what they do. Do you sleep deeply at night under the premise that if we just mind our own business here in Canada, no harm will come to us?


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## Guest (19 Mar 2006)

1st repy, you missed some of the conversation.  Catch up.

Piper - freedom of speech and the right to protest are excellent things to defend and protect.  However, if that is what is being defended, then why is it not being respected?  And by that, I mean more than just saying "You have the right to protest, but I have the right to say you're stupid and tell you to shut up."  I think we have to consider why we have the right and why it is important.  If we are just going to tell everyone who holds an opinion we don't like that they are idiots and know-nothings then why have defend that right?  I could have done that without a right of free speech.  There has to be something intrinsically valuable about that right if it is so important.  An opinion may be right or wrong but maybe I should consider it and evaluate my beliefs in comparison.  Maybe I change my opinion or I don't.  No harm done.  At least I had the opportunity to correct myself.  I think just telling everyone to shut up is an abuse of a right that our forefathers fought for.  If we have it, fucking use it properly.


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## jmackenzie_15 (19 Mar 2006)

Bottom line: Do'nt go on television ranting about things you know absolutely nothing about.

These people go ranting and raving in the streets about american imperialism, civilian casualties and oil profits.. possibly after being fired up by a michael moore movie, and open their mouths before theyve done even a shred of research at all.

What makes matters worse, CTV and CBC are putting these people ON TELEVISION for hundreds of thousands, even millions to see. Many of those are connected to CF members, or may be one themselves.

Actually, watching this woman on my television talk about how we're killing innocent civilians and spreading democracy "through a gun barrell" was infuriating and downright offensive. I took offense to that comment, and CTV and CBC allowed it to be put on television.

That wasnt news, it was an idiot preaching about things she knew nothing about. If you want to tell me the news, fine, tell me theres a protest going on in downtown Halifax. Don't show me some random woman with no credibility badmouthing our soldiers, loosely based on events that may or may not have even happened.


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## JBP (19 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> 1st repy, you missed some of the conversation.  Catch up.
> 
> Piper - freedom of speech and the right to protest are excellent things to defend and protect.  However, if that is what is being defended, then why is it not being respected?  And by that, I mean more than just saying "You have the right to protest, but I have the right to say you're stupid and tell you to shut up."  I think we have to consider why we have the right and why it is important.  If we are just going to tell everyone who holds an opinion we don't like that they are idiots and know-nothings then why have defend that right?  I could have done that without a right of free speech.  There has to be something intrinsically valuable about that right if it is so important.  An opinion may be right or wrong but maybe I should consider it and evaluate my beliefs in comparison.  Maybe I change my opinion or I don't.  No harm done.  At least I had the opportunity to correct myself.  I think just telling everyone to shut up is an abuse of a right that our forefathers fought for.  If we have it, ******* use it properly.



Fair enough, I get your point. What we're trying to explain though, is that there are people out there who have absolutely NO idea why we're in Afghanistan or what we're there for... People like this example whom I work with daily...

We were talking about the axe-to-the-head incident a day or so after it happened... Civvie says: "You know, if someone puts an axe into your head, it must mean those people don't want you there.... I mean, if they're blowing you guys (Canadian Troops) up with bombs and attacking you all the time, maybe they don't want you there, so like, maybe you should leave.. We shouldn't have went there in the first place, it was Bush's idea!"

Along those lines almost exactly.. 

My response: *Roll eyes* - "Don't you know? We're trying to free Afghanistan from the oppression it faced for decades by militant leaders, the people want us there, the old military leaders and Taliban do NOT. They want to re-gain control of the country to keep growing drugs and terrorists. They don't have a choice to be free or not because they don't have any power, it's been taken away from them for so long. Would you like them to be free or would you like remnants of the Taliban to take over again, start producing like 65% of the worlds opium again and killing, slaving or oppressing the population as they see fit? What do you think THEY want?"...

It was pretty close to that... I remember this because I was so infuriated over it. After that little talk, she shut up. Didn't say a word except, "Oh"..... 

They just really have no idea... At all...


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## TCBF (19 Mar 2006)

It was pretty close to that... I remember this because I was so infuriated over it. After that little talk, she shut up. Didn't say a word except, "Oh"..... 

They just really have no idea... At all..."

- But you - YOU - have sewn a tiny seed in her head, that will someday threaten everything her rather limp-dick peer group has tried to accomplish.  Because of YOU, there is hope for her yet.

Heck, even Barbara Amiel started out as a Commie!

 ;D

Tom


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## IN HOC SIGNO (19 Mar 2006)

I reminded of an incident that happened in Victoria a few years ago.
The Aircraft carrier USS Lincoln was visiting, anchored in Royal Roads and I and a number of other Canadian officers went out by boat as part of the official liaison team.
We had to steer our way through Greenpeace and Raging Granny boats with similarly uninformed people on board in order to get to the accommodation ladder.
When we finally got up on the flight deck and were greeted by the Captain our embarrassed senior officer said "sorry about all the protest and fuss Captain, this is not the views of the majority of Canadians or Victorians to your presence here."
To which the USN Captain replied pleasantly, "They are welcome here too Captain, this is the reason we have a ship like this and fight to preserve their right to protest."

The majority of Canadians saw last night's protest as just a bunch of hippy nut cases blowing hot air.


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## Infantry_wannabe (19 Mar 2006)

It would be a sad day if Canada leaves Afghanistan to cater to these kinds of people. I'm taking classes at a College in the Vancouver area and I constantly see posters saying things like "Stop Imperialism at Home and Abroad!" I swear to God, they had a picture of the Canadian soldier facing off with a Mohawk at the Oka crisis from years ago. These posters link all of the following things together: Oka, Native rights, Iraq, Afghanistan, and even...get ready for it...Haiti! Apparently Canada is part of an imperialist plot to control the oppressed people of Haiti.

Hey, I can understand though. Afghanistan and Haiti are so rich. The corporations are drooling, imagining all that wealth they can get their hands on. In Afghanistan they have that magical oil (I mean natural gas) pipeline that will never be built. In Haiti they have...ummm, well I guess there's a well somewhere with drinking water that won't kill you.

Who am I to talk though? I guess I am just one of those weird people who think that Iraq was wrong but Afghanistan was, and is, very right. Am I alone? Probably! I am hated by hippies and soldiers alike. That's why I won't post my name


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## GAP (19 Mar 2006)

After coming back from Viet Nam and listening to the American protesters and the total Canadian lack of knowledge, I simply kept it to myself and didn't bother discussing it with people who couldn't or wouldn't listen to another side of the arguement. The protesters do not want to know the how and why, it detracts from their agenda. 

Not much has changed in those 30+ years, even the media coverage. While I think the media should cover the event, they should be "reporting the news" not "making the news". The media's job is do an unbias report on what is happening and to present both sides of the issue. Has anyone seen any space being utilized for the counter arguements in this case???

As for the protesters, some of those are the very same people that 10 years down the line will be running for the NDP and quoting how they stood up the warmongering Conservative government's involvment in Afghanistan and other ilk.  The sad part is some will actually get elected, and maybe become leader of the party...ooops..sorry (hic) Jack!

While they have the right to protest, and we, conversly, have the right to call them idiots and misinformed, we have to as the question "what are we doing about it??"

They have put up posters decrying the aggression in our Universities and other public places, but all I ever see is the occasional yellow ribbon on a bumper saying "Support our Troops". More importantly, what specifically are "YOU" doing?


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## Guest (19 Mar 2006)

This some good debating.  I'd like to add another argument in favour of being more tolerant of protestors.  And thats because at least they gave enough of a crap in the morning when they got up to do three things:  they cared enough about Canada and the world to attempt to get informed,  they had enough brains to put together an opinion and they took the time to do somethig about it.  I can respect all that and I think that there are way too many people who don't do even one of those three things.  Rights aren't just for defending, they are there to be used.  It takes more than soldiers to defend a right.  There have to be people to define those rights, there have to be people to teach the significance of those rights and pass on the associated values, there have to be people to enforce those rights, and there have to be people who use those rights.  So next time you see a protestor, give'em a hug and thanks.


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## Jarnhamar (19 Mar 2006)

Some people will say to their grand kids "I protested monsters!"

Others will say "I fought them"


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## SeaKingTacco (19 Mar 2006)

> So next time you see a protestor, give'em a hug and thanks.



Maybe... but only if they promise to start showering regularily and fer gawds sake lay off of the patcholi oil  

My problem with protests such as yesterday's "worldwide day against US agression and imperialism everywhere", is the unthinking onesideness of it all.  

"US Imperialists out of Iraq!"  Ok great.  Where the hell were the protests for the 30+ years that Mr S. Hussein ran his country like a petty thugocracy?

To some people's credit there actually was a small outcry against the Taliban and how they handled Afghanistan- after they blew up some thousand year old Buddist Statues.

Not many people marched in the streets in the 60's, 70's and 80's decrying the Soviet invasion of Czechslovakia, stomping on Poland and the Solidarity movement and then invading Afghanistan.  Too busy, I guess.

China catches only small, scattered protest in the West for her invasion and occupation of Tibet and for trying to stomp out Falon Gong.

I can't remember ANY peace group taking to the street, heading to the nearest Iranian embassy and protesting the crap out of the recent call for Israel to be wiped off of the face of the Earth.  I mean, that sounds like aggression to me.  Should it not be protested with the same vigour as the US in Iraq?  I guess they were too busy agreeing with a bunch of 9th century mullahs that Islam has faced a "fatal insult" with some cartoons, and every Christian (and Jew, just for good measure)  now needs to pay in blood for that.

Do you see a pattern developing?  It is pretty cool and hip to be critical of "the West".  And I suppose that there are legitimate issues about our culture and way of life that are not perfect and deserve to be protested.  I just wish the average professional protester had a little more academic rigour in them and thought a bit more about what they are doing.  I actually would have a fair bit of respect for someone who put as much effort into protesting China, or Iran or North Korea or Russia as they do the US.  At least (although we would disagree on many points), they would be consistent in their world view.

Cheers


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## Fractux (19 Mar 2006)

In talking about demonstrations and people voicing their opinions, there was a very interesting debate last week on Cross Country Check-up last weekend. There were some very informed opinions and some very uninformed opinions voiced. There was one issue that arose that I wish to bring up, and ask about since I’m still somewhat ignorant about many aspects of our operation. 

But first, let me state my opinion at this time, since this is my first time taking part in a discussion here.

I personally believe that we should be in Afghanistan. The UN and the international community supported these actions. The intent is to give this country a chance, and the world has a opportunity to try to right as many problems as we could.

I’m not one to judge or belittle the efforts made to date, but we realised that no process is going to be flawless, yet that no matter what, we are going to have to persevere. We’ve taken the plunge, and now we need to keep on swimming until the race is over.

There were opinions voiced on the radio that no historical conflict has even been "won" in Afghanistan, and that our forces have jumped into a very bleak quagmire. I find this argument to hold little ground, as our presence in the region, and our intentions, are for the betterment of Afghan society. We knew going in that the fight would be difficult, and that the social and political situation in Afghanistan is so complex that we cannot solely focus on combat missions. We also knew that not every Afghan would be happy to see foreign troops on their soil again.

We are not making Afghanistan become like us, but rather giving them the chance to be able to control their own destinies. Is this in any way a straightforward process? I think everyone would agree that no one knows how things will turn out, but we have to help finish what we started. 

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for the rest of his life. In this light, I’ll say this: give Afghans a small taste of being in control, and they’ll only ever get a glimpse of what could be, and nothing more. To help teach an entire country to pick itself up and move forwards someone is not going to be easy process. Teaching them does not mean that we force them to follow our instruction, but that we give them the chance to learn, and that we do everything we can to help on their way.

Our forces will be constant targets by those who wish to see these efforts fail, which means we have to fully support their combat capabilities. On top of this, we need to do everything we can to make sure that the work we are asking our troops to do will eventually lead to success. We place them in the line of fire everyday, and demand that they always take appropriate actions. We have to make sure that while they are out on the front lines, the sacrifices they have made, and will make, are not being undermined by failing to get the people to see that we are trying to help them. (Don't ask me about where we need to start, because I'm not well informed enough at this time and I don't understand Afghan culture well enough).

The public in Canada seems to be far too apt to jump on soldiers when they hear the story of a civilian being shot in the pretext of a tense situation. I’m not, in any way, trying to say “accidental shootings are just an inevitable consequence, and we should not be saddened when we hear of this unfortunate situation.” What I am saying is that all we can do is find out what went wrong, and correct any mistakes that we can. If procedures were followed, then look at the procedures and try to fix them as best as we can. If the fault lies with the civilian, then we can look at how we are getting the word across. If we have done everything we can humanly do to prevent these occurrences, then what can we say?

I’ll get on to asking my question before I keep rambling.

Right now, in Afghanistan, a concern was voiced as to how much autonomy Canadian troops have in making recommendations and decisions with regard to the areas in which they operate. Some individuals commented on the radio show that all international troops in Afghanistan are being seen as all flying under an American flag.

My question is if anyone can explain [or point to resources about] the current top-level command hierarchy that our troops are working under and if anyone is aware of how much input we have in helping move Afghanistan forward? Are reconstruction plans and recommendations that the Canadian military proposed being examined? Basically, how much say do our forces currently have?

I realise that our presence is part of a joint NATO effort, but how much say do we have? Is it purely a numbers question (the more troops you have, the more we can have)?

My reason for asking is because I would like to know if we have a fair share in voicing our opinion about how our forces will be used in Afghanistan.  

Cheers!


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## Rory (19 Mar 2006)

I can't imagine what soldiers over seas think about their jobs some days when ignorant protests such as these are allowed to continue, I mean call me a closet commie for this but until people can organize an informed intelligent group of protesters I let loose the riot squad on them and force em home until they could accomplish an informed protest.

This anti West viewpoint is also blatantly retarded beyond words. I have a question/statement for those people who support the anti West standing, do you not like the freedom you have? Do you not enjoy sleeping in and enjoying a life free from pressures such as violent acts on your step every day? If you do, stop protesting and get informed. Still think the West is all that bad? Pack up and leave if you still do.

The point of American Imperialism is also a very very extreme viewpoint. I didn't hear anything about Iraq becoming an American satellite nation, I also don't see many Americans making plans to move and setup in Iraq the supposed 'American Imperialist Annex'. I have always stood by the fact that now a days anything involving a situation outside your breakfest table is in the gray zone, the protesters are trying to operate with the black or white scenario on how the world works.  This is not possible you will always need to embrace that gray zone and find the best of both worlds with in it, nothing is clear cut anymore.

Just my little opinion in a world filled with em.


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## Long in the tooth (19 Mar 2006)

There was a protest here in Winnipeg consisting of all of 200 people (about .3% of the population).  A spokesman absurdly stated that "it's obvious that we represent most Canadians".  I did a quick add of the numbers in Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Halifax and Winnipeg and got less than 5000.  Gotta do better than that, folks.

Now, I'm preaching to the choir here, but these imbeciles have their heads in the sand.  No other way to put it.  The Taliban have threatened attacks on the US, UK, Spain, France, Italy, Australia and CANADA.  Thousands have died and we are the only ones yet to take civilian casualties.  Call me crazy, but when a man with his past says he's going to burn my house and kill my family, I believe him!

The actions by protesters sullies the memories of our war heros.  They didn't whine "it's too hard" and cut and run.  The irony is that if Sharia law is instituted anywhere it won't be most of the conservative fuddy duddies like myself inconvenienced, but all the liberal blow hard protesters.

Thanks, my blood pressure is back down now.


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## HDE (19 Mar 2006)

I'd be far more impressed with the protests if they could actually get a few more people to  show up.  I do understand that 30 people in 20,000 is proof positive that they speak on behalf of what "people believe", however the visuals are all wrong  :

Then you add what appears to be considerable confusion of the ones who do show  Hint: Haiti isn't Iraq which isn't Afghanistan.

Then a dollop of "I don't think womyn (sp.) should have to live under the Taliban either.  I do think that the answer is..."  Generally things kinda run out of steam at this point.

Enough of what you don't want; what would you do if you really had to do something!


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## tomahawk6 (19 Mar 2006)

While I agree our citizen's have a right to protest, it seem's to be anti-government in nature. You dont see the folks out protesting the outrages that occur in the world - like Saddam's mass murders. Or Milosevic's slaughter of innocent people. Or the outrages perpetrated by the islamic radicals. It is definitely a one way street. When you look at the organizations the protestors represent its a hodgepodge of leftist extremists and they openly side with the terrorists. Essentially they use the freedom's of our democracy to overthrow the system as we know it. There is a fine line between what they do legally and sedition.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

http://www.wsws.org/

http://www.newswithviews.com/Lamb/henry8.htm

http://www.worldsocialism.org/usa/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


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## teltech (19 Mar 2006)

Ahh yes, but don't forget, some people protest because "it's the thing to do"
"Mom and Dad did it during Vietnam"
"I just saw Michael Moore's film"
"My friend is going, c'mon!"
ad nauseum.
Yes there is a right to protest (through freedom of speech and freedom of peaceful assembly), but when there is no debate, and nothing but meaningless catch-phrases being spouted out, the media is the only thing that stands between true discussion and propaganda. In that case, the true power lies with the editorial staff or publisher, which then shapes public opinion, which then shapes government policy. 
I think the ol' Chinese curse is upon us...


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## a_majoor (19 Mar 2006)

A bit of ammunition if you ever get engaged by the anti war crowd. Remember, catch their attention, steady breathing cycle then let them have a fact in the centre of visible mass!

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/03/three-years-of-dragging-democrats.html



> *Three Years of Dragging Democrats Through Their Iraqi Quagmire*
> 
> "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction... Saddam may well hide his most lethal weapons in mosques, schools and hospitals. If our forces attempt to strike such targets, untold numbers of Iraqi civilians could be killed."
> 
> ...


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## monika (20 Mar 2006)

Infantry_wannabe said:
			
		

> ... I constantly see posters saying things like "Stop Imperialism at Home and Abroad!" I swear to God, they had a picture of the Canadian soldier facing off with a Mohawk at the Oka crisis from years ago. These posters link all of the following things together: Oka, Native rights, Iraq, Afghanistan, and even...get ready for it...Haiti! Apparently Canada is part of an imperialist plot to control the oppressed people of Haiti.



What the hell does Oka have to do with Afghanistan? If you're going to protest(and yes I have) stick to the topic at hand, make sure it's current, and be informed!(I'd like to think I was but I'd obviously be biased)

Imperialism? One could argue that dictatorial despots such as Hussein and Taliban are Imperialist; the empire they seek is not land but control of people's thoughts and actions.



			
				Infantry_wannabe said:
			
		

> Who am I to talk though? I guess I am just one of those weird people who think that Iraq was wrong but Afghanistan was, and is, very right. Am I alone? Probably! I am hated by hippies and soldiers alike. That's why I won't post my name



You are not alone; most people I speak with in detail were against Iraq but as they get more info, are for Canada in Afghanistan.

Hated by hippies and soldiers alike? I consider our soldiers professional enough to channel their hatred for when they need to use it in training or battle. Hippies? I can't be a hippie - I like shaving my legs and am gainfully employed. Mind you I do like my granola. Seriously though I have managed to retain friendly terms with both military and leftie; I'd like to think it's because my association is with what we have in common not what divides us(geesh, that's hippie talk right there!) Yes, there are jerks in all walks of life, but I refuse to let that colour my opinion of an entire group.

My name? Just call me the squaddie huggin' tree hugger. Don't ever, ever call me a Commie though; my parents escaped the Iron Curtain and I have no love lost for Communism.


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## HDE (20 Mar 2006)

I'd love to see a breakdown of the so-called "Iraqi Body Count" broken down by who actually did the killing.  I'd wager those killed by the so-called "resistance", either in reprisals or as "collateral damage",  during attacks on U.S. forces would far outnumber the number actually caused by the Yanks.  It appears that Iraqi lives are far less valuable when ended by other Iraqis.


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## clk320 (20 Mar 2006)

Well to reply to Mack674 and I don't want to fuel the debate.  I am serving overseas at the moment and don't feel one bit offended by the protest that happen back home because it's   where everyone one of us can express our opinion freely.  Some of the folks don't agree with the CF being over here that's OK but some of them do.  If they feel strongly about it to pull us out well they can request the gvt to do so of course because we live in a democracy : i.e.quote a form of government in which the people have a voice in the exercise of power, typically through elected representatives unquote (oxford def.).  And personally this is the reason why I am here when I see this happening (ref. to a post: quote Afghan man faces death penalty for converting to Christianity unquote).  We are here to make a change for the better and will do everything we can to do it sadly there is a cost to it but that's why I signed on the dotted line and will do so for the next fifteen years or so.  So if they want to protest go right ahead but I know that I am supported by my family, friends and a lot of your folks on army.ca.  Why get excite and bend out of shape for a few minority if we do they win.  Long live the CF !!!  :warstory:


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (20 Mar 2006)

The major problem these days, Canadians are making uninformed opinions and taking a stand on them. If Joe Blow loves to exercise his right to protest anything, overhears some misguided idea that the CF is in Afghanistan to steal there oil or because they want to be more American, he will not put a second thought into fact checking and the next thing you know, he's on CBC with a picket sign acting like he's an expert on all things military.

 Im all for the right to protest but atleast show you know what your talking about before taking a stand.


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## HDE (20 Mar 2006)

SHELLDRAKE!

     Exactly!  I have nothing against a person expressing an opinion, however I'd like to think they are offering a thoughtful opinion.
I heard a newsclip today where a woman stated that the money being spent "fighting the war" should be spent on "reconstruction"
Reconstructing a nation without having much idea who'll be running it when we're done does seem a bit dodgy.


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## jmackenzie_15 (20 Mar 2006)

HDE said:
			
		

> SHELLDRAKE!
> 
> Exactly!  I have nothing against a person expressing an opinion, however I'd like to think they are offering a thoughtful opinion.
> I heard a newsclip today where a woman stated that the money being spent "fighting the war" should be spent on "reconstruction"
> Reconstructing a nation without having much idea who'll be running it when we're done does seem a bit dodgy.



Perhaps someone should point this woman in the direction of our Provincial Re-Construction Team that's been working in Afghanistan for years ?

You also can't re-construct anything when as soon as its built, Joe Taliban comes in at night and burns it down, and kills any locals who helped build it for "supporting western imperialism."

I applaud CBCs latest efforts during the last couple weeks, particularly the coverage from inside Afghanistan itself, for attempting to show the public what is really going on over there. I think that helped educate and inform alot of people that the mission is noble and necessary and in every way embodies what we as Canadians stand for: not oil or land... democracy, peace, and human rights.

The Afghan people deserve better lives, and they need us there to help them get back on their feet, and our troops need the support of the country to get the job done.


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## scoutfinch (20 Mar 2006)

To paraphrase Voltaire:

_I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it._

Free speech is the corner stone of democracy.  In Canada, we have a democratically protected right to protest and speak our minds on government policy and activity -- even if what we say is stupid or inane.  

I don't know why you may have joined the military.  I signed up with the intent to contribute to the defence of this nation and to participate in the implementation of Canadian foreign policy as determined by Parliament.  I don't have to agree with the decisions of government but I do have to abide by them, even should it pose risk to my own life.  That is the life (and sometimes death) of a soldier.  

Let the jackasses protest.  Let them make ridiculous and fallacious public statements.  They are their own worst enemy... their farfetched accusations and stories will ultimately fall on deaf ears as their credibility is ruined.   We, as soldiers, become our own worst enemy (politically) when we make short sighted comments about acting violently against someone exercising their constitutionally protected rights. 

If a poorly informed protestor wishes to portray military personnel as undisciplined *killers*, why feed into it with stupid comments??? Correct the misstatements with facts, not fury. Otherwise, we appear exactly as they claim.


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## ArmyRick (20 Mar 2006)

It was interesting that I overheard a conversation from two "educated people"  : who were going on and on about how Harper came into power and then committed us to Afghanistan. WTF? Did these guys just start watching the news a week ago or what? Has anyone seen the blatant anti-harper, anti-military, anti-anything right going on in some media lately? I watched with some disturbance This hour has 22 minutes last friday and I shook my head.

The Truth. get ready for it. CANADIANS ARE F*CKING IGNORANT !!! We have no business calling down Americans when we are pretty ignorant ourselves. Our people whine about Harper's "hidden agenda" and the military in A-stan when gun violence in Canadian cities is on the rise, as is violent crime in general and Canadians STILL refuse to acknowledge the criminal misappropriation of our tax payers money during their twelve year of terror.

Hey Canada, the world does NOT need more of us. What they really need is for our country to WAKE UP and smell the coffee.  Maybe we, as Canadians, should acknowledge the real world and the truth. Yeah, we are such a great nation that how many of our people live in poverty? How taxed are we? We have an UNELECTED senate and the man who wants to change all that is being challenged by left extremist.  Or maybe its the Left wing politicians feeding at the tax payers trough? 

Wake up, Canada.  Lets sort ourselves out and start acknowledging reality.  

Before the world puts us on show parade.


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## a_majoor (21 Mar 2006)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> Wake up, Canada.  Lets sort ourselves out and start acknowledging reality.
> 
> Before the world puts us on show parade.



All Canadians will be lined up by their bunks at 0500 Zulu for Rick's inspection.........


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## Brad Sallows (21 Mar 2006)

I'd rather they vent their frustration by protesting openly, than conspire in secret to effect change by force.


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## Franko (21 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> To paraphrase Voltaire:
> 
> _I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it._



 :

No left wing nut is worth any life being laid down by any soldier. 

If they want to defend their right to free speech...throw on a uniform and prove it, otherwise shut up.

Besides Voltaire was a egomaniac....and seems to me there was something about his mother as well    ;D

Regards


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2006)

If we are waiting for Larry Lunchbox ans Suzy Sewingkit to suddenly grasp the truth about what is going on in this country, then we are overestimating their pickled IQs by about 400%.

Give your average Canadian couple a case of beer, a bag of dope and an NHL game to watch on the idiot box, and the sheeple won't give two shoots about us.  Never did.  Never will.

Interfere with either of the three above pleasures, and things start to unravel.

Remember the hockey strike?  Not being able to bitch about the Leafs, the masses accidentally saw a news clip about gun control?

"What? When did this start?"

Well, 1934 or 1978, depending on your poison, but the newly alerted became outraged, until some mandarin in Ottawa told the NHL "Get the bloody league up and running - the friggin peasants are starting to pay attention to us, and that's the last thing the gov't or you owners want!"

So the strike got sorted out.

Tom


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

Franko said:
			
		

> :
> 
> No left wing nut is worth any life being laid down by any soldier.



While I agree wholeheartedly with your commentary on Voltaire (and his mother  ). I fundamentally disagree with your comments regarding the value of a *left wing nut*.  It is not my job to decide which Canadian lives are worthy of defending.  In my mind, the very existance of the left wing nut makes this county even MORE worthy of defending.


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## Franko (21 Mar 2006)

You've taken my statement a bit out of context....

If they want free speech and everything that goes along with it....take responsibility and do something besides complaining. 

All I ever hear from these people is what the problem is and that they are against it.....never heard any realistic solutions that would hold up to any sort of real scrutiny.

Most of it is hot air being spewed out...and it's pretty much the case that it's the media getting the story wrong and the protesters taking it to the streets.

Regards


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

Thanks for straightening me out.  I dare say that we are completely in agreement.

Have a good one.

SF


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## Guest (21 Mar 2006)

What is it with all this Left wing right wing crap? 

One thing that politics has shown me is that we have been divided and turned against one another. We've forgotten we're on the same team.

I'm not a pot smoking hippy nor am I a gung ho lets nuke the Middle East moron either. Where is the common ground between us? 

What is wrong with people expressing their anti-war opinions? Nobody in their right mind wants to see another war in this world. If you are a pro war nut you should be ashamed of yourselves. God knows our history is filled with too much bloodshed. 

I think the major problem is this. Not enough people are expressing their opinions and more and more people have become isolated. Nobody appears to care anymore that this world is turning to crap right before our very eyes. I'd like to see both kinds of protests. For and against. Now that would be something of a debate. 


The Anti-war demonstrators do have a right to protest.
Lets examine the last three years of Iraq .

1) Even after elections there is no constitution and no stable government in Iraq
2) The money that was supposed to rebuild iraq has disappeared
3) Oil prices in North America haven't gone down at all
4) the occupation has now started civil war.
5) the number of civilian casualties from American firepower.

I don't know about you but the US occupation has definately botched things for Iraqi's. Are they really any more free then they were before? Of course not. What is freedom in the middle east anyways? Religion is so entrenched democracy is just a mere after thought. I feel really sorry for those people because so many of them thought that when the tanks were rolling in life was going to improve.


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> The Anti-war demonstrators do have a right to protest.
> Lets examine the last three years of Iraq .
> 
> 1) Even after elections there is no constitution and no stable government in Iraq
> ...



Helllloooooooooo????? May I remind you that we are NOT in Iraq.   : : :


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## Guest (21 Mar 2006)

Does that matter? Canada is in Afghanistan. Canada supports America's war on terror. And since the Conservatives are in power what is stopping the americans from telling us that we need to send support to Iraq? 

The main message of the protest is not all of Canada supports decisions made by bush. Doesn't matter that we're not there in strength. Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, some Canadians on transfer with the US have served in the war, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...


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## Franko (21 Mar 2006)

Mind providing a link to this?



> Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...



Regards


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

I'll tell you what... you do a little more research on the Canadian mission in Afghanistan, the history of the Taliban and its involvement with terrorism and then we can chat.  

I commend for your reading Ghost wars by Steve Coll which presents a brilliant and comprehensive political/military history of the CIA and US involvement in Afghanistan and what created the conditions for bin Laden's success.  The book covers from 1979 through to September 10, 2001 -- the date when Massoud, the commander of the Northern Alliance was assisinated by al qaeda.

Then read The Persian Puzzle by Kenneth Pollack for information on Iranian-US relations and then get back to me.   You will find that Iran and Afghanistan have NOTHING to do with Iraq.


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## Guest (21 Mar 2006)

Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...

maybe you should watch the CBC more often. The stories should be in the archives section somewhere,


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## Franko (21 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...
> 
> maybe you should watch the CBC more often. The stories should be in the archives section somewhere,



Sorry...been busy in Afghanistan for the past 7.5 months.

Give a link please.


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## jmackenzie_15 (21 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> Does that matter? Canada is in Afghanistan. Canada supports America's war on terror. And since the Conservatives are in power what is stopping the americans from telling us that we need to send support to Iraq?



Yes, it absolutely matters since both theatres are almost tremendously different, along with the people that live in said theatres.

B) Canada was already asked to send troops to Iraq, and we said no.

WAKE UP


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## jmackenzie_15 (21 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...
> 
> maybe you should watch the CBC more often. The stories should be in the archives section somewhere,



Oh so helping Iraqis police themselves is a crazy right wing idea? You're right, we're part of the american imperial war machine of global domination and neo colonialism because there are a dozen RCMP in the middle east helping to train local police forces to maintain order.
Bust out the anti war signs.

I didnt realize SNC lavilan was really the Canadian government in disguise.....


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## scoutfinch (21 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...
> 
> maybe you should watch the CBC more often. The stories should be in the archives section somewhere,



Maybe you should watch and LISTEN more often to more than one source for complete information.  Try The Economist or The Guardian.


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## foerestedwarrior (21 Mar 2006)

Guest said:
			
		

> Does that matter? Canada is in Afghanistan. Canada supports America's war on terror. And since the Conservatives are in power what is stopping the americans from telling us that we need to send support to Iraq?



So when does having the conservatives in power make us having to bend to the will of the US?


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## ArmyRick (21 Mar 2006)

Guest, live in the real world. Seriously. Or is your name Pike?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Mar 2006)

Quote from: Guest on Today at 15:07:55
Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...
maybe you should watch the CBC more often. The stories should be in the archives section somewhere, 

_Quote from Franko,
Sorry...been busy in Afghanistan for the past 7.5 months._

Right to the throat. :rofl:
Guest, 
Your bleedin' bad......


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## Franko (21 Mar 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Quote from: Guest on Today at 15:07:55
> Canada has still sent police to train Iraqi police, SNC lavilan supports the war through weapons productiion...
> maybe you should watch the CBC more often. The stories should be in the archives section somewhere,
> 
> ...



...and yet still no backing up of any of his trype


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## Brad Sallows (21 Mar 2006)

>The main message of the protest is not all of Canada supports decisions made by bush.

Fine.  Emigrate, apply for citizenship, and vote against him.  Or bitch, but don't expect anyone here or there to pay attention.


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## monika (21 Mar 2006)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> >The main message of the protest is not all of Canada supports decisions made by bush.



I don't like him but I didn't vote for him; very few Canadians did(dual citizens).

Not all of the US supports decisions made by Harper or Fox. I don't expect them to, and I don't really care.

It's not always fair but that's how it works.


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## JBP (23 Mar 2006)

Guess said:
			
		

> The Anti-war demonstrators do have a right to protest.
> Lets examine the last three years of Iraq .
> 
> 1) Even after elections there is no constitution and no stable government in Iraq
> ...



Where the FUDGE do you get your information from?!?!? 

1.) - The current constitution of Iraq was ratified October 15 2005 LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Iraqi_constitution
Furthermore, if it's not stable, how are they training police, building thier own military, schools and infrastructure like running water and electricity and holding votes and ABLE to argue about new laws and a way to run the country... It may not be cemented yet, but that's arguably "stable".

2.) The money to rebuild Iraq is flowing like mad through thier oilfields and through the major offshore oil loading docks that load up to 200 million barrels a day onto international ships that go to the world - that money is being used to fund the rebuilding of Iraq!

3.) Haven't you noticed the cost of gas for your car? It's about .86 cents on average where I am... That's a lot lower than about $1.00 it was at before!

4.) You can't pin the occupation on starting a civil war because there would already have been one, but there couldn't be because Saddam was using chemical warefare and gas attacks and slaughtering those who would oppose him! Ask the KURDS in NOrthern Iraq!!!! The Sunni muslims??? HELLO!?!?! It's just that now they are ABLE to have one... Because thier heads aren't being lobbed off for speaking out so much!

5.) What about it? Every single war, no matter who starts or finishes it causes civilian casualties. In WW1 and WW2 civilian casualties were INTENDED to demoralize a population and destroy a countries infrastructure and ability to make war machines - READ: CARPET BOMBING! The amount of civilian casualties in comparison to now days wars are MUCH lower... Also, what about the civilian casualties that SADDAM caused by killing his own people? READ: MASS GRAVES of thousands of Iraqi civilians and thier entire family trees that were executed for speaking out against Saddam, his group or the government...

*EDIT ADDED: Also, why didn't these same protesters who value human life so much make mass demonstrations about the killing of almost 1 MILLION people in Rwanda, ever hear of that little battle? Again READ: ETHNIC CLEANSING!*

Pull your head out of your a$ my fellow Canadian and READ between the lines... Everything CBC or BBC or MSNBC or the world news agencies say doesn't mean that's exactly how it is!!!

I suggest you stop posting all this crap you pull out of your head and just start educating yourself. At least in this country you have that chance, because this time, now, was paid for in thick red blood by patriotic Canadians who died by the hundreds of thousands to preserve our way of life OVER THERE away from home in WW1 and WW2. 

READ: STFU and take it with a grain of salt that you realize your talking out of your ***.

Yes, your right about one thing, everyone should be happy we can protest to be warmongers or protest to hate war. Good for us.


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## Cliff (23 Mar 2006)

Infantry_wannabe said:
			
		

> I'm taking classes at a College in the Vancouver area and I constantly see posters saying things like "Stop Imperialism at Home and Abroad!"



I can only imagine how much nonsense these college professors spread during the course of a teaching career.


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## HDE (23 Mar 2006)

To be fair to professors they likely aren't the ones hanging the posters; most unis/colleges have a few "activists" running around.


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## Good2Golf (24 Mar 2006)

Guess, if your profile is accurate, then your salary is paid by the war machine.......hmmmm, do you have a mirror anywhere in your house?

Fractux, with regards to your question...


> Right now, in Afghanistan, a concern was voiced as to how much autonomy Canadian troops have in making recommendations and decisions with regard to the areas in which they operate. Some individuals commented on the radio show that all international troops in Afghanistan are being seen as all flying under an American flag.
> 
> My question is if anyone can explain [or point to resources about] the current top-level command hierarchy that our troops are working under and if anyone is aware of how much input we have in helping move Afghanistan forward? Are reconstruction plans and recommendations that the Canadian military proposed being examined? Basically, how much say do our forces currently have?
> 
> ...



The Canadian Task Force currently operates under Coalition Force Command - Afghanistan (CFC-A), which is a coalition of several NATO and non-NATO nations taking on the task of securing and assisting development of the more volatile East and Southern Regions of the Afghanistan theatre of operations.  NATO-ISAF is responsible for the other three Regions...well, two regions, West and North and a multi-national brigade in Kabul.  Thus ISAF and CFC-A are complementary organizations, large numbers of NATO nations in each structure, but both also with non-NATO forces as well.  In late fall, there are plans for CFC-A forces to fall under command of ISAF, once NATO completes so-called "Phase 3 expansion" to put in place the capability to command all non-Afghan military forces in Afghanistan.  Regarding CFC-A, Canadian BGen Fraser is the Commander of CFC-A Regional Command (South) at this very moment.  We also have a Canadian BGen in the headquarters command of Combined Joint Task Force 75 (CJTF-76), the operational-level command in-between the tactical-level RC(South) and the National-level CFC-A.  We also have a team of Strategic Advisers embedded with the Afghan Government directly assisting reconstruction and National Development efforts.  The effects of these various commands and groupings is that Canada has an especially influential effect on operations in Afghanistan, especially when considered in the context of working with our diplomatic and development Gov't of Canada partners also in Afghanistan.  The Canadian provincial reconstruction team (PRT) in Khandahar works very closely with the Khandahari authorities and, through the links upwards through RC(South) to other coalition and Canadian assets, ensures that reconstructive efforts are as relevant to the people of Khandahar Province as possible.  Is it a perfect system?  No, but it certainly is one of the better working efforts that I've seen undertaken.

For the record, I have absolutely no issue with protest...it is a democratic right that I have served my country to protect, as did both of my grandfathers (RIP ) in WWII.  What would go a long way in my books would be to see the protesters show a little more understanding of the issues than mere  regurgitation of anti-American boilerplate text pulled of a website.  It makes one wonder if they protest only the "safe" targets (Western countries) rather than being more focused on the cause vice symptoms of strife in the world.

I'm perhaps deluding myself into thinking that a reasonable number of these protesters might at least consider what those of us try to pass on from our experiences serving around the world.  I've seen things first hand in Afghanistan, and contributed directly to making it a better place for Afghans to live.  I try to pass on to those willing to listen my personal thoughts and views on the issue.  My words are free, I expect anyone listening to exercise their right to agree or disagree with them.  That's fine.  I sleep soundly every night knowing I made a difference...not just talking about why someone should make a difference.

Cheers,
Duey


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## Infantry_wannabe (24 Mar 2006)

The earlier poster was right about RCMP training Iraqi police http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/news/n_0401_e.htm. The idea that Canadian military personnel on exchange have served with the US in Iraq isn't new either. The PM even confirmed it recently saying "There have been a small number of Canadian military personnel embedded in American and allied units. That's been the case since the beginning of the war. Nothing has changed on that front." That's from a story by the dreaded CBC
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/23/canadian_role060323.html (scroll down to part about the PM)
but this has been common knowledge since the Iraq war started.

Having said that, CANADA IS NOT AT WAR IN IRAQ. The Canadian government decided not to significantly participate in the war on Iraq. But international politics is a complicated thing. The US is our most important ally even if they do stupid things. To stop cooperating with their military (such as the example of the exchanges) would be a major blow to our alliances and to our national defence. RCMP officers training Iraqi police sounds like a good idea to me. We are not getting involved directly by sending troops to Iraq but are still trying to help Iraqis create a stable society. As for the Canadian companies involved in supplying the US military, what is the alternative? Banning all Canadian defence manufacturers from trading with the US? That sounds realistic, given our national interests.  :

The war in Iraq was in my opinion a large mistake mixed with a touch of deliberate deception. I think 9/11 and the real fight against Al-Qaeda was used by the Bush administration to go into Iraq for wider strategic and economic reasons. However right some of these reasons might or might not have been, I think the conclusion is that the invasion should never have happened. There is still the humanitarian reason, but considering all the deaths which have resulted and the ongoing hopeless situation, I don't think it was worth it. I really hope that I turn out to be wrong about that...but I doubt it. To me, no WMD's=Massive Mistake.

As much as the anti-war protesters make me instinctively sick, I think it is important to have people who are willing to question what they are told. Obviously, if given a lawful command, that is not the job of the military (to protest against what they are told) but in a democracy it is vital for citizens. I just wish the protesters would think a little more clearly. As I implied in an earlier post, Iraq does not equal Afghanistan, the Oka crisis, the need to become a granola-eating, vegetable juice drinking vegan, or whatever other pet cause happens to be fashionable.

As much as I disagree with them, I do agree they have a right to protest. I am also free to express my own opinion: that the vegan anti-Afghanistan types are full of s---, that Bush is full of s---, and that we should support the troops in Afghanistan until hell freezes over if necessary. But then that's just my opinion.


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## Cliff (25 Mar 2006)

Infantry-W

Though I don't agree with some of the points in your post = I appreciate your speaking your mind. 

Looking back, I think the Bush administration did the right thing by invading Iraq. It will draw in terrorist-combatants for years to come and is an excellent staging area into other hot spots. The entire region was a terrorist accident waiting to happen. The intervention, at least now, is a controlled accident where the American driver is still in control of the military veh. 

Most of the world is standing by watching and expecting the US to fail in Iraq. More than ever, I support the American position in Iraq. I also think president Bush has done a remarkable job. I also support small scale raids and other military operations into Iran, even if it's in violation of applicable laws, if it means Iran will have no nuclear capability.

Regards.


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## bbbb (26 Mar 2006)

Protesters have the right to protest what they feel is wrongful intervention in the Middle East. Does that mean they should do protests instead of work or looking after the family? I for one don't participate in protests because they tend to be a waste of time, plus it looks bad from my point of view.


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## scoutfinch (27 Mar 2006)

bbbb said:
			
		

> Protesters have the right to protest what they feel is wrongful intervention in the Middle East. Does that mean they should do protests instead of work or looking after the family? I for one don't participate in protests because they tend to be a waste of time, plus it looks bad from my point of view.



Now there is a reason not to exercise my constitutional rights... because it looks bad. :


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## IN HOC SIGNO (28 Mar 2006)

I think we always need to realize that there will be people in the left wing peace movement who will refuse to get the story straight for reasons of their own agenda.
When I lived in Vancouver in the early to late eighties I went to a church where the pastor was involved in the peace movement...those were the days they got thousands of people out for the the annual peace march. 
He always used to pray for people in Nicaragua and Central America and was involved in groups that supported the movements down there that were anti-contra. I used to challenge him to think about the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union and wasn't that worthy of the same kind of effort. He never had a good answer for me and so tipped his hand that what it was really about was the "leftist agenda."

I wonder how he feels now that we are in Afghanistan?? (I could hazard a guess)


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## ArmyRick (29 Mar 2006)

I support the protestors right to moan and groan about everything military when we could proably be spending more money on welfare  :
However I draw the line when the interfere with other people's rights. Such as physical blocking the military recruiting efforts at Universities (such as guelph last November).  Any person who dares support the military or oh my, Steve Harper (he  is the devil don't you know?)  : Whatever.

What about the protest to stop the Nigerian woman from being excuted several years ago because she was pregnant and unwed (Sharia law)?

Where was the protest to stop the bloody killings in Rwanda? Or the protest of the UN to not get a pair and truly intervene?

Where is the protest for every dictator or murderous leader who kills innocent people?

Oh no, its much easier to have sit ins, protest proffessional military efforts and try to re-live the '60s here in a safe and secure enviroment (That so many around the world just do not have).

Well maybe some day they will understand that it takes force and sometimes lethal force to free the oppressed.......


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## ArmyRick (29 Mar 2006)

After putting the above post up, i just learned of the Patricia casualty (Robert Costall) in A-stan.  I don't want to hear a peep from some spoiled bloody left wing crack pot today


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## 17thRecceSgt (3 Apr 2006)

as with everything else...I try to stay on the trace and make it to the objective...they are obstacles, and obstacles can be skirted, cleared, and then ya carry on...

If Danny Dope-Smoker and Patty Peace-lover want to protest...let them.

Just stay off my door step, and run if you start to burn the flag.  

My advice to them is...if Afghanistan is such a WONDERFUL place to live...I will pay for their one-way plane ticket.  Don't forget to write now!


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## bilton090 (8 May 2006)

Guess said:
			
		

> 1st repy, you missed some of the conversation.  Catch up.
> 
> Piper - freedom of speech and the right to protest are excellent things to defend and protect.  However, if that is what is being defended, then why is it not being respected?  And by that, I mean more than just saying "You have the right to protest, but I have the right to say you're stupid and tell you to shut up."  I think we have to consider why we have the right and why it is important.  If we are just going to tell everyone who holds an opinion we don't like that they are idiots and know-nothings then why have defend that right?  I could have done that without a right of free speech.  There has to be something intrinsically valuable about that right if it is so important.  An opinion may be right or wrong but maybe I should consider it and evaluate my beliefs in comparison.  Maybe I change my opinion or I don't.  No harm done.  At least I had the opportunity to correct myself.  I think just telling everyone to shut up is an abuse of a right that our forefathers fought for.  If we have it, ******* use it properly.


 THAT's TO Guess
               ( USE IT PROPERLY ) You talk about our forefathers, they whould roll over in their grave's to heir you, I'am glad you have to pay for your higher school, what a wast of taxpayer's money. You left wing crack pot, sitting here in a secure enviroment, on the gravy train, biting the hand that feed you!!!!!!  PROTESTING for the hell of it, it's cool !! let's being the kid's they have face painting, ( WE ARE AT WAR !!!! ). 
                         If you think Afghanistan is so great, move there, put your kid's in school, Better yet you can talk in the village's, they think like you. ( you'd last 1 hr at best ).
                         Respect if you had some, you wouldn't be here, we are still morning our dead, shithead, but you dodn't get it.!!!!
                                                I'am glad the government doesn't think like you, we would be like the NAZT'S,in your hafe backed world.
                                                S*** for brains.


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## scoutfinch (8 May 2006)

hmmm... you realize that the protests were over two months ago, right?  This thread is stale by atleast one month.


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## bilton090 (8 May 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> hmmm... you realize that the protests were over two months ago, right?  This thread is stale by atleast one month.



 what about 
last week in Wenp.

               All I have been reading the last few days, in this form is all the protesting for people like Guess, Pike & the one that got kicked out, this is not the form for that, we need surport , not kicked when down.


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## GK .Dundas (8 May 2006)

bilton090 said:
			
		

> what about
> last week in Wenp.
> 
> All I have been reading the last few days, in this form is all the protesting for people like Guess, Pike & the one that got kicked out, this is not the form for that, we need surport , not kicked when down.


*sigh* I'll say it if nobody else will, learn to read ( and write too! For gods' sake!)Just what protesters are you protesting against here?


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## scoutfinch (8 May 2006)

hmmmm... keep reading.  There is an entire thread discussing the feeble Wpg protests... in fact, that thread has moved on to post ex critiques so you probably shouldn't start ranting and raving about protestors on that thread either.


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## George Wallace (8 May 2006)

I'd recommend staying off those 'corner drugs'.  They hinder making coherent posts.


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## 17thRecceSgt (8 May 2006)

HA HA HA ok that made my day...

 :rofl:


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## Hot Lips (8 May 2006)

Will someone please tell this person...that the chances of getting any support for protesting against such things is most likely not going to occur here and better yet...to be taken remotely seriously...dear god there is spell check if nothing else...lmao rotfl

Good one George!!!

HL


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## aesop081 (8 May 2006)

I'm still looking for "Wenp"


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## bilton090 (8 May 2006)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> I'm still looking for "Wenp"


       Give me a break, a had a bad year, new on comp. & my spealing sucks, old army, Grade 8, in 26yrs, I'll wach you back ????.
                            Thats what a'am talking about we have to stick together, not nitpick, & s*** on each   other, fun to laff at outher people.


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## aesop081 (8 May 2006)

bilton090 said:
			
		

> Give me a break, a had a bad year, new on comp. & my spealing sucks, old army, Grade 8, in 26yrs, I'll wach you back ????.
> Thats what a'am talking about we have to stick together, not nitpick, & s*** on each   other, fun to laff at outher people.



it was a joke Chimo brother........you do remember humour right


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## 17thRecceSgt (8 May 2006)

Bilton,

Ok sorry to offend...but I was just sayin' GWs comment was funny...thats all.
We DO got to be able to laugh at each other right?   
MRM


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## bilton090 (8 May 2006)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> Bilton,
> 
> Ok sorry to offend...but I was just sayin' GWs comment was funny...thats all.
> We DO got to be able to laugh at each other right?
> MRM


  YA !!! you are right , Tks bad year died 05, back again cann't keep a good Eng. down!!!!!, going 01-07 Afgn. ,


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## 17thRecceSgt (8 May 2006)

I got some buds doin' the work-ups for the RGG and some other of the "extra op's" stuff for 1-07.


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## bilton090 (8 May 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I'd recommend staying off those 'corner drugs'.  They hinder making coherent posts.


   
                  Tks George : 
                                   Its issure , but whats up w/ all the protesters bad mouthing the boys posts, it's nice to heir the other side (1 figer, no speel check), but when they don't have a point they can back up, they RUN !!!

They souldn't be on !!!!
                                      They are laughing in the face of what majority of Canandians belive in & NOT what the boys on ops. need to hear. !!!


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## George Wallace (8 May 2006)

bilton090 

I was going to send you a PM, but I think this will be easier:  You will find the "Spell Check" two buttons to the right of the "Post" button.  You may find it of use before you post.


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## Centurian1985 (8 May 2006)

Somebody...please!  End this thread!!   Acckk!!  I dont think I could take another argument with 'guests' who act like they are 100% correct but cant even get their basic facts right about world events..


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## bilton090 (8 May 2006)

Centurian1985 said:
			
		

> Somebody...please!  End this thread!!   Acckk!!  I dont think I could take another argument with 'guests' who act like they are 100% correct but cant even get their basic facts right about world events..


this started in march close it!!!


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## Franko (8 May 2006)

Well this horse is dead....yep real dead.



>



Locked.

Regards


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