# Tamil migrant ship headed for BC (Arrived 13 Aug 2010)



## CougarKing (16 Jul 2010)

Note this other thread on another ship seized last year.



> *Tamil migrant ship heading for B.C.*
> Last Updated: Friday, July 16, 2010 | 7:01 AM PT
> The Canadian Press
> *The Thai Cargo Ship MV Sun Sea *  is reportedly headed for the West Coast of Canada with 200 migrants on board. Canada is watching out for a ship reported to be carrying illegal Tamil migrants after a Sri Lankan newspaper warned the vessel could be headed for British Columbia.
> ...




(Moderator edit to insert date in thread title. - MMO)


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Jul 2010)

Yup, gotta watch how we do this or Sri Lanka will be suing us for millions in about 150 years :


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## George Wallace (10 Aug 2010)

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.


*
Ship nearing Canada run by Tamil Tigers: expert
*

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 | 4:40 PM
CTV News

LINK 

*A terrorism expert says the cargo ship carrying an estimated 200 Sri Lankans toward British Columbia is being managed by the Tamil Tigers, and may be carrying a number of its members.*

Canadian and U.S. authorities have been monitoring the Thai cargo ship for weeks. Yesterday, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said he was concerned that the vessel may be transporting members of the Tamil Tigers, which is considered a terrorist organization in Canada.

Rohan Gunaratna, the head of research at the International Centre for Political Violence alegnd Terrorism in Singapore, echoed that view. He said the group has even been known to use ships carrying legitimate Sri Lankan refugee claimants to transport its leaders abroad.

The Tamil Tigers represent the military arm of the Tamil separatist movement in northern Sri Lanka. They lost a long-running civil war last year. And since then, members of the group who ran the Tigers' shipping and procurement network have branched out into human smuggling operations, Gunaratna said.

As evidence, he pointed to the Ocean Lady, a ship that arrived in British Columbia carrying 76 Sri Lankan refugee claimants last October. That vessel had previously been used by the Tamil Tigers to transport weapons from North Korea to Sri Lanka, he said.

In July, a Sri Lankan newspaper reported that a second ship, MV Sun Sea, was travelling to British Columbia carrying 200 migrants, including members of the Tamil Tigers.

But the Canadian Tamil Congress says Ottawa shouldn't prejudge the ship before it arrives.

"We don't condone these ship voyages. It's very risky, it's deadly," said David Poopalapillai, a Canadian Tamil Congress spokesperson. "But we understand, at the same time, why these people are coming. Desperate times push people to desperate measures."

He said the government should avoid "painting everybody with the same brush" using unreliable information from the Sri Lankan government, and should let Canadian law dictate who on the ship will be deemed a refugee.

"If you find any people inadmissible after putting them through due process, then yes, go after them," Poopalapillai said.

Toews said on Monday that Ottawa is committed to protecting genuine refugees, but will foil attempts to abuse the country's immigration policies.

However, Gunaratna said that Canada has become a favourite destination for Tamil Tigers because of Ottawa's "extremely weak" national security laws. 

If the federal government allows everyone aboard the MV Sun Sea into Canada, he added, the Tamils may sail more ships loaded with purported refugees towards British Columbia in the months ahead.

With files from The Canadian Press

==============================================================================

*
B.C. prisons brace for Sri Lankan migrants
*

10/08/2010 2:47:48 PM
CBC News

LINK 


*A Lower Mainland municipality is being advised its prisons could be used to house Sri Lankan migrants on a Thai cargo ship believed to be headed to B.C.*
On Monday, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said Ottawa is monitoring the MV Sun Sea, but would not provide specifics.

John Leeburn, spokesman for the District of Maple Ridge, said he has been told the people on board will stay at two Maple Ridge facilities - Fraser Regional Correctional Centre and the Alouette Correctional Centre for Women.

Corrections officers and sheriffs at the prisons have been told to be ready for up to 500 Tamil migrants or refugees in the coming days, most of them men.

Leeburn said it's not clear exactly when the ship might arrive.

"What we were told last week was that the RCMP and [Canada] Border Services would be boarding the vessel offshore, either this week or - it's not clear, but they were boarding the vessel kind of mid-week," he said.

"The first port of call is Victoria and then from there we don't know when they'll be arriving in Maple Ridge."

Officials say there is reason to believe members of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, known as the Tamil Tigers, are on the ship. The Tamil Tigers have been outlawed in Canada as a terrorist group since 2006.

Leeburn said the two Maple Ridge prison facilities, east of Vancouver, housed 76 Sri Lankan migrants who arrived last fall on another ship.

The ship was intercepted in Canadian waters in October after crossing the Pacific from Sri Lanka. The group on board the Ocean Lady claimed to be fleeing persecution.

But there were concerns some had links to the Tamil Tigers. The 76 Sri Lankan migrants from that ship have since been released and their refugee claims will be processed over the next two years.

With files from The Associated Press


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## Edward Campbell (10 Aug 2010)

The government, Jason Kenney anyway, has talked about reforming the refugee system but I'm afraid he's only planning to tinker. We need a major reform, which almost certainly will involve using the Constitution's notwithstanding clause, to overturn the infamous Singh case (1985) so that people like these Tamils cannot claim Charter protection. Finally, this ship should be replenished and taken in tow and towed all the way back to Sri Lanka.

But, sadly, I know I'm dreaming on all counts.  :'(


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## ModlrMike (10 Aug 2010)

I think that immigration is one of those issues that a majority government is needed to tackle. That, and the issue must be dealt with early in the mandate so that some of the sting has worn off by the next election. Given the current composition of the house, any party that proposed the required reforms would quickly be labeled as xenophobic, and risk invocation of Godwin's law.


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## Nauticus (10 Aug 2010)

It is difficult to watch Canada turn into a safe haven for terrorists from all over the world. I imagine even those ineligible for refugee status will be staying in the Canadian prison system, because I doubt Canada will send people back to their home country if they're going to be prosecuted/killed.


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## George Wallace (10 Aug 2010)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> It is difficult to watch Canada turn into a safe haven for terrorists from all over the world. I imagine even those ineligible for refugee status will be staying in the Canadian prison system, because I doubt Canada will send people back to their home country if they're going to be prosecuted/killed.



Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  See:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67625/post-962145.html#msg962145  



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/child+refugee+faces+deportation+native+Somalia+after+life+crime+Canada/3378151/story.html


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## medicineman (10 Aug 2010)

Can only shake my head about this...personal view would likely result in an RCMP and CSIS investigation, not to mention a visit from the BCCLU.

MM


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## George Wallace (10 Aug 2010)

BCCLU ?  Blind Children's British Columbia Child Labour Union?  British Columbia Civil Liberties Union ?


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## aesop081 (10 Aug 2010)

BC Civil Liberties Union


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## medicineman (10 Aug 2010)

Yes indeedly doodely.

MM


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## CougarKing (11 Aug 2010)

CBC link



> *Tamil migrant ship nears B.C.*
> 
> Last Updated: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 | 12:41 PM PT
> CBC News
> ...


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## OldSolduer (11 Aug 2010)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> It is difficult to watch Canada turn into a safe haven for terrorists from all over the world. I imagine even those ineligible for refugee status will be staying in the Canadian prison system, because I doubt Canada will send people back to their home country if they're going to be prosecuted/killed.



Its been done on more than one occassion.

At least three people I know of have been deported. One went to Australia, as they wanted him.

One was sent to Sierra Leone, his homeland, the third one to Somalia.


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## medicineman (11 Aug 2010)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Its been done on more than one occassion.



Frequently/expeditiously enough though?

MM


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## J.J (11 Aug 2010)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Its been done on more than one occassion.
> 
> At least three people I know of have been deported. One went to Australia, as they wanted him.
> 
> One was sent to Sierra Leone, his homeland, the third one to Somalia.



This is my life...I wish it was done more frequent and faster!!

It is getting better, in the past it was impossible to deport anyone to Somalia, but recently it is becoming more common and frequent. The system does need to be overhauled, but it is heading in the right direction.


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## OldSolduer (11 Aug 2010)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Frequently/expeditiously enough though?
> 
> MM


Not as much as some of us want, but its better than it was six or seven years ago. Different government, different philosophies.


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The government, Jason Kenney anyway, has talked about reforming the refugee system but I'm afraid he's only planning to tinker. We need a major reform, which almost certainly will involve using the Constitution's notwithstanding clause, to overturn the infamous Singh case (1985) so that people like *these Tamils* cannot claim Charter protection. Finally, this ship should be replenished and taken in tow and towed all the way back to Sri Lanka.
> 
> But, sadly, I know I'm dreaming on all counts.  :'(



really ? what is wrong with "these" Tamils ?
btw If you are going to pull the whole blocking the highway card thats is not even 1% of Toronto Tamil population.
Tamils are the second largest ethnic group in Toronto after Chinese. but i agree we had problematic past in the 80's but now Tamils are a productive bunch and a contributing force to Canada. 
As an immigrant myself I believe everyone deserve a chance to start a new and better life, This country is founded by people seeking better life but if Canada has to do extensive security clearance then be it.


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> really ? what is wrong with "these" Tamils ?



By "these", he means the ones on the very big boat thats on its way here. The ones arriving here illegaly. Some of them are likely members of a terrorist organization ( you know, the LTTE ).

Is that enough "wrong" for you ?



			
				Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> As an immigrant myself I believe everyone deserve a chance to start a new and better life, This country is founded by people seeking better life but if Canada has to do extensive security clearance then be it.



There is a legal process for immigration to this country. What these people are doing is disrespecting our laws from day one. Yeah, we take people seeking a better life but do it legaly or go somewhere else.


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> By "these", he means the ones on the very big boat thats on its way here. The ones arriving here illegaly. Some of them are likely members of a terrorist organization ( *you know, the LTTE* ).
> 
> Is that enough "wrong" for you ?
> 
> There is a legal process for immigration to this country. What these people are doing is disrespecting our laws from day one. Yeah, we take people seeking a better life but do it legaly or go somewhere else.



Yes I know LTTE :
btw thanks for speaking for him


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> Tamils are the second largest ethnic group in Toronto after Chinese.



Do you have a source for that?
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/highlight/ETO/Table1.cfm?Lang=E&T=501&GV=2&GID=535


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> btw thanks for speaking for him



No problem. I love it when someone assumes a poster is being racist ( your post was clearly infering this ) and i enjoy telling them to pound salt.



			
				Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> Yes I know LTTE :



Oh good, you've heard of them.


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> By "these", he means the ones on the very big boat thats on its way here. The ones arriving here illegaly. Some of them are likely members of a terrorist organization ( you know, the LTTE ).
> 
> Is that enough "wrong" for you ?
> 
> There is a legal process for immigration to this country. What these people are doing is disrespecting our laws from day one. Yeah, we take people seeking a better life but do it legaly or go somewhere else.



What is illegal claiming refugee status ?
Its not like they are going to land in Canada and hide for rest of their life? when they land, they will file for landed immigrant status and what not; if they are war criminals Canada can deport them back to Sri Lanka. its not as simple as you think when the sri lankan government treat Tamils like third grade citizen its hard for them to go to Canadian embassy and apply for Sri Lankan passport.

MM thanks for the 10 year old link


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> its not as simple as you think when the sri lankan government treat Tamils like third grade citizen its hard for them to go to Canadian embassy and apply for Sri Lankan passport.



I realy couldnt care less.


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I realy couldnt care less.



My exact point.


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## ModlrMike (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> ...its hard for them to go to Canadian embassy and apply for Sri Lankan passport.


Why would a Sri Lankan request a passport from a Canadian embassy? Shouldn't they request one from their own government?



			
				Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> MM thanks for the 10 year old link



The last census was in 2001, ergo the link is the most current data. Notwithstanding, you don't mean to suggest that the Tamil population in Toronto has increased in the last 10 years by an order of magnitude?


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Why would a Sri Lankan request a passport from a Canadian embassy? Shouldn't they request one from their own government?
> 
> 
> The last census was in 2001, ergo the link is the most current data. Notwithstanding, you don't mean to suggest that the Tamil population in Toronto has increased in the last 10 years by an order of magnitude?



sorry should've made it clear i meant  to actually go to Canadian embassy to get visa and passport from the Sri Lankans.
Yes most likely 10 years is a long time.


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> My exact point.



You dont have a point. You just wanted to act with indignation when someone said " these tamils" rather than understand what the poster was saying. Typical minority group behaviour..."woh is me" and always playing the victim.

These tamils should try their luck with the US...........wonder how that woud play out eh ?


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## Kat Stevens (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> What is illegal claiming refugee status ?
> Its not like they are going to land in Canada and hide for rest of their life? when they land, they will file for landed immigrant status and what not; if they are war criminals Canada can deport them back to Sri Lanka. its not as simple as you think when the sri lankan government treat Tamils like third grade citizen its hard for them to go to Canadian embassy and apply for Sri Lankan passport.
> 
> MM thanks for the 10 year old link



I have no doubt that, had they arrived undetected, this is exactly what would happen... POOF!  disappearo rapido.


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## PegcityNavy (12 Aug 2010)

If they were crossing the border from Mexico no one would have even noticed.


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> If they were crossing the border from Mexico no one would have even noticed.



So ?


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You dont have a point. You just wanted to act with indignation when someone said " these tamils" rather than understand what the poster was saying. Typical minority group behaviour..."woh is me" and always playing the victim.
> 
> These tamils should try their luck with the US...........wonder how that woud play out eh ?



And your typical Redneck behavior I don't care what happens I just don't want "different" people.


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> MM thanks for the 10 year old link





			
				Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> Tamils are the second largest ethnic group in Toronto after Chinese.



BJ made the claim, yet offers no source.
Here is another source from 2006. Still waiting for yours.
http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/tbt/Rp-eng.cfm?LANG=E&APATH=3&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=0&GID=838003&GK=0&GRP=1&PID=89186&PRID=0&PTYPE=88971,97154&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&Temporal=2006&THEME=70&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> And your typical Redneck behavior I don't care what happens I just don't want "different" people.



Far from it. I work with people of many different backgrounds and we all share something in common : We are all law-abiding citizens of this country. If someone enters this country legaly, they are very welcome in my books

BTW...i was not born in Canada and i am a minority in this Country so, yeah, there goes your theory eh ?

 :


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

mariomike said:
			
		

> BJ made the claim, yet offers no source.
> Here is another source from 2006. Still waiting for yours.
> http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/tbt/Rp-eng.cfm?LANG=E&APATH=3&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=0&GID=838003&GK=0&GRP=1&PID=89186&PRID=0&PTYPE=88971,97154&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&Temporal=2006&THEME=70&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=



Most 2 gen or 1.5 Gen Don't speak Tamil so the link is a no go.


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## Kat Stevens (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> And your typical Redneck behavior I don't care what happens I just don't want "different" people.



Are you related to my ex wife?  She can hear things nobody says, too.


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> Most 2 gen or 1.5 Gen Don't speak Tamil so the link is a no go.





			
				Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> Tamils are the second largest ethnic group in Toronto after Chinese.



For the third time, do you have a source?


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## john. M (12 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Far from it. I work with people of many different backgrounds and we all share something in common : We are all law-abiding citizens of this country. If someone enters this country legaly, they are very welcome in my books
> 
> BTW...i was not born in Canada and i am a minority in this Country so, yeah, there goes your theory eh ?
> 
> :



Then why did you make that assumption about minorities crying "woh is me"
anyways I'm done derailing the thread.


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## aesop081 (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> Then why did you make that assumption about minorities crying "woh is me"



Long experience...........


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## Scott (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet,

Quit with the personal attacks or go into the warning system. Calling people rednecks when they haven't even exhibited any such behaviour (all I saw was someone disagreeing with you) is uncalled for.

Staff


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## CougarKing (12 Aug 2010)

CBC link



> *RCMP vessels head for Tamil migrant ship *
> 
> Thu Aug 12, 10:44 AM
> 
> ...


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## Neill McKay (12 Aug 2010)

Bravo Juliet said:
			
		

> sorry should've made it clear i meant  to actually go to Canadian embassy to get visa and passport from the Sri Lankans.



It would be the Canadian High Commission.  Commonwealth countries don't exchange ambassadors.


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## VIChris (12 Aug 2010)

Keep your eyes on the news channels folks. Was at the Hospital this morning visiting my wife and son, and saw a security checkpoint being set up at the old emergency entrance to VGH, as well as a bunch of news crews filming around there, as well as the nearby youth detention centre. Word around the site was that the ship is expected this evening at some point.


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## George Wallace (12 Aug 2010)

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.


*
Canadian navy boards ship carrying Tamil migrants
*

Thursday, August 12, 2010 | 7:05 PM
CTV

LINK 

*The Canadian navy has boarded a cargo ship off the coast of B.C. carrying 490 Tamil migrants, "including suspected human smugglers and terrorists," according to Public Safety Minister Vic Toews.*

He said the government intends to prosecute any criminals that may be travelling on board.

One of the navy vessels that met the migrant ship was HMCS Winnipeg -- the same vessel that searched for pirates off the coast of Somalia this year. 

"The Winnipeg attempted to hail the Sun Sea several times, and after establishing communications the vessel declared that it had refugees on board," Toews said.

Meanwhile, tents and portable toilets have been set up at CFB Esquimalt in Victoria in advance of the arrival of the migrants. They have been out at sea for months aboard a ship called the MV Sun Sea that left Thailand in May. 

The condition of the people on board the ship is unknown. There are unconfirmed reports that at least one person has died, and many are suffering from tuberculosis. 

Five RCMP vessels were deployed to meet the cargo ship. The ships carried armed men, though the RCMP would not provide details on their activities. 

CTV's Janet Dirks reported that the main hospital in the area of the military base, Victoria General, "has set up at least 75 beds and they've called on extra emergency personnel." 

Whatever ailments the migrants may have, Dirks said local health authorities "are ready to treat them." 

"After they are treated, they will then go to two correction facilities on the Lower Mainland -- that's outside of Vancouver, in Maple Ridge," Dirks said. 

"They could be there for months. People expect that they'll be filling out refugee forms, that's the claim they want to make -- to be refugees and to live in Canada." 

Support and security concerns 

Some reports and pundits have warned that the MV Sun Sea may be carrying members of the Tamil Tigers -- the banned terrorist organization whose military wing was defeated by the Sri Lankan army last year. 

Chitranganee Wagiswara, Sri Lanka's High Commissioner to Canada, said her government believes the cargo ship is tied to the Tamil Tigers -- a group she says profits greatly from human smuggling. 

"This is a human smuggling exercise and Canada should look at it from that point of view," Wagiswara told CTV News Channel from Ottawa on Thursday afternoon. 

Supporters say the migrants should not be prejudged. 

"There has been a lot of innuendo about people being on there that are a threat to Canadian security," Manjula Selvarajah, a spokesperson for the Canadian Tamil Congress, said in an interview with The Canadian Press on Wednesday. 

"However, one of the things we have to be careful about is some of the things that we're hearing comes from sources that are linked to the Sri Lankan government, who have a poor track record when it comes to human rights, accountability, transparency." 

The expected arrival of the MV Sun Sea will mark the second time a boat carrying Tamil migrants has landed in B.C. 

Prior arrivals 

Last October, the Ocean Lady brought 76 Tamil migrants to Canada from Sri Lanka. 

One passenger on the Ocean Lady told The Canadian Press that he took the risk to come to Canada to flee threats against his life after the end of Sri Lanka's long and bloody civil war. He agreed to pay $45,000 for the chance to leave. 

"I was very scared, I felt like I had to hold my life in my own hand," the unidentified passenger told The Canadian Press through a translator. 

That ship was supposed to head for Australia, but abruptly changed course and sailed to Canada. 

Seeing the news reports of the second ship headed to Canadian soil, the man said he has a sense of what they're going through. 

"It's safe for me to say that I know what they're feeling, what they're going through, because I've been through it," he said. 

"I think they are civilians just like me coming on the boat and looking for a better opportunity." 

Queen's University law professor Sharryn Aiken said the public should look to the Ocean Lady as an example of how smoothly the process will go. 

"Seventy-six passengers: All of them after very extensive screening, have been released. They are all awaiting refugee hearings and there has been no substantiated evidence brought forward to date that any of them pose various security risks to Canada," Aiken told CTV News Channel on Thursday afternoon. 

"That's not to say that none will ever emerge, and it may be that some of them have links to the defeated Tamil terrorist organization in Sri Lanka, and if they do, they'll be dealt with according to legal procedures here in Canada." 

With files from The Canadian Press


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## Oh No a Canadian (12 Aug 2010)

CBC is reporting that the DND is now saying that the ship was not boarded, only that they made contact with it.


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## VIChris (13 Aug 2010)

They're here:

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100813/bc_migrant_ship_arrives_100813/20100813?hub=BritishColumbia


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## HavokFour (13 Aug 2010)

Really simple concept guys, come here the legal way or stay out. If my own dad can do it so can you.

There are people in this country that have been working years and YEARS sweating and bleeding to get their own families here, they might as well mail them a rubber dingy. I am tired of illegals getting preferential treatment while people that are legally applying are getting put on hold as our system gets overloaded once again.

The gaping hole in our Immigration Policy really needs to be plugged.


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## HavokFour (13 Aug 2010)

I also find it interesting that we suddenly have an extra 100 beds available. What's up with that? How is it that illegals get better medical attention than our own people?

Enough of this special treatment, do what Australia did and turn this ship right back around.


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## aesop081 (13 Aug 2010)

I know how this is going to soud but......



			
				HavokFour said:
			
		

> Enough of this special treatment, do what Australia did and turn this ship right back around.



I beleive that ship has already sailed.

So to speak.......


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## Edward Campbell (13 Aug 2010)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I think that immigration is one of those issues that a majority government is needed to tackle. That, and the issue must be dealt with early in the mandate so that some of the sting has worn off by the next election. Given the current composition of the house, any party that proposed the required reforms would quickly be labeled as xenophobic, and risk invocation of Godwin's law.





That’s correct; this is a problem that only a solid majority government can tackle.

When such a beast exists it must, first, come to grip with one key *fact*: refugees are not immigrants. Refugees are people who have, because of well founded fears for live and limb, fled their homes and are seeking _refuge_, which is, by definition, a temporary safe haven. We, as civilized people, have a moral duty to help care for refugees; first we need to provide refuge, but not necessarily here. *Real* refugees do not want to immigrate to Canada; they want refuge close to home so that, as soon as it is safe to do so, they can return to *their* homes and resume *their* lives in *their* country. In this respect the Palestinians are, still, refugees in that most want to return to what is now Israel and resume ‘normal’ lives where their great-grandparents once lived.

The CBC has it right: the Tamils on that ship are *migrants*; they are not seeking _refuge_ they want what all _migrants_ want: a new, better chance in a new, better place. Lots of _migrants_ came to Canada over the centuries: 100% 0f my ancestors came here seeking something better. We call those people _immigrants_ and we have systems in place to recruit the ones we want.

Then, what about the _migrants_ we don’t want – like the 500± who just arrived?

Well, first, we are duty bound and treaty bound to ‘accept’ then and to treat them fairly and humanely.

What we need not do is to turn them loose into the general population and forget about them. We need not have long, drawn out _refugee_ or _immigration_ determination and appeals processes.

Anyone who arrives in Canada, by air or ship or bus or on foot, seeking asylum, should be detained, concentrated with other asylum seekers, in large camps – maybe we can call them _concentration camps_, Godwin be damned – where they can do some useful work, where their children can be educated, where they can be safe and secure until, eventually, they are almost all returned to the countries they originally fled. They claim, after all, to be refugees and refugees should want to go home as soon as it is safe to do so.

There are a huge number of laws and regulations that need to be rewritten, and they must be rewritten in ways that can either satisfy the _Supremes_ about _Charter_ issues or can be implemented using the ‘notwithstanding’ clause. Then there is the matter of Canada doing its full and fair share to solve the problems that *create* refugees in the first place – that may require a bigger, more expensive military that undertakes many, many operations far, far from home.

What we are doing now is the worst of all possible courses open to us – concentration camps are a better alternative.


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## HavokFour (13 Aug 2010)

And what is this I've been hearing that these people have paid quite a bit of money (I've heard $50K-40K/person) to be on this ship? Smells fishy to me, and its not the bilge.


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## Antoine (14 Aug 2010)

> « Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 12:49:27 »
> .......If the federal government allows everyone aboard the MV Sun Sea into Canada, he added, the Tamils may sail more ships loaded with purported refugees towards British Columbia in the months ahead......
> 
> .......But there were concerns some had links to the Tamil Tigers. The 76 Sri Lankan migrants from that ship have since been released and their refugee claims will be *processed* over the next two years......



Their claims should be processed in their own country, but hey, why not coming here in first hand and then let the host country deciding if your are a valid refugee, sounds like a good plan. Thus, how many more boats from where before we wake up?

My comment is a bit harsh and I understand that those people come from a difficult and unfair situation but if we have all our personal reason to break and bend the Law, why having laws, where does it stop ? Double standards ?


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## George Wallace (14 Aug 2010)

WTF ?

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.


*
Kevin Libin: Will Canada play host to a Tamil government-in-exile?
*

Kevin Libin  August 14, 2010 – 10:00 am
National Post

LINK 


A young Calgary man believes he has family aboard the MV Sun Sea. He also believes strongly in the cause of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), a.k.a. the Tamil Tigers. He is, in a person, the predicament Canada faces if the Tigers, as some suspect, are employing human-smuggling ships as part of broader efforts to use this country as a base to rebuild their organization — the one behind a decades-long civil war in Sri Lanka. This country, say some LTTE-watchers, has all the moral support, infrastructure and political accommodation the Tigers need to make Canada their new headquarters.

“I don’t look at the Tigers as an organization that someone made, I look at the Tigers as my fellow people and citizens,” said the man, who asked not to be named, through an interpreter; he believes his father was one of the passengers on the ship that sailed, uninvited, into B.C. waters on Thursday, to deliver to Canadian shores 490 passengers, all suspected to be Tamils. “Everything [the Tamil Tigers] had done was to help us, to help Tamils.”What the Tigers have done is well documented by the 32 countries, including Canada, that have labelled the group a terrorist entity. In pursuing a Tamil homeland, they pioneered suicide bombings before the Palestinians, launching nearly 200 of them; they are believed to have been behind the assassinations of Sri Lanka’s president and former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi, as well as any moderate Tamils who they considered disloyal to their cause. At the height of their power they operated a renegade air force, navy, police force, bank and radio and TV stations

In 2009, Sri Lankan forces decisively defeated the fierce rebel group. But the diehard movement has hardly disappeared, says Peter St. John, a professor specializing in intelligence and terrorism at the University of Manitoba. Beaten in Sri Lanka, their members rounded up by the government there, they may use Canada as their base; the MV Sun Sea, which Canadian officials suspect is ferrying at least some LTTE members, could be part of that strategy.


“The [Tigers] aren’t a huge threat at the moment, but they could well be in the future,” says Mr. St. John. “There’s always a small minority who won’t accept the verdict of history, and will be determined to keep fighting the fight from within a peaceful country like Canada.”

In addition to operating a reputedly sophisticated crime ring, including running weapons and drugs, sea piracy and human trafficking, the Tigers have since the beginning relied on the Tamil diaspora to raise the reported US$300 million a year — an estimated $12-million from Canada — that funded their fight with Colombo. Many, like the Calgary man, support the Tigers. But Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has pointed out that the group uses also “extortion and intimidation to raise funds within the Canadian Tamil community.”

Canada, with more Tamils — 200,000 — than any country outside Sri Lanka — is already a key seat of what is something of a rebel government in exile: In May, tens of thousands of Canadian Tamils cast ballots to elect the Transnational Government of Tamil Eelam, a 135-member parliament-style organization with more Canadian representatives, 25, than any other nation. The Sri Lankan high commissioner to Ottawa called the election a Tiger strategy “to keep the movement alive.”

“They’ve been talking about forming the Tamil government in exile here and setting up a number of institutions. Among the old support network for the Tamil Tigers here, they’ve resolved that the war isn’t over, or that it can always be resumed. As far as they’re concerned it’s war to the knife,” says John Thompson, executive director of the Mackenzie Institute, a Canadian security think tank. “Here in Canada, you’ve got all these young kids, their whole sole idea of Tamil identity has been defined by the Tigers. They’re being raised as a poisoned generation to perpetuate the conflict.”

A Canadian Border Services Agency report on 76 Sri Lankan men who arrived last fall on another ship notes that more than two dozen passengers were suspected Tiger members. “If the overseas wing’s intention is to regroup what is left of its Sri-Lanka based operation in Canada … these men clearly have the requisite abilities and experience to move that process along.”

Canada has long been considered fertile soil for Tamil radicals. With a large ethnic concentration around Toronto and Vancouver, and the reputed ability to mau mau even moderate Tamils into providing support, front groups have lured several federal politicians to their rallies and events: Paul Martin, when he was Liberal finance minister, along with Liberal MP Maria Minna, attended a pro-Tiger fundraiser in 2000. Even after Ottawa listed the Tigers as a terrorist group in 2006, Liberal MPs John McKay and Borys Wrzesnewskyj attended a Markham, Ont. vigil in 2007 to honour the LTTE’s assassinated political chief. Liberal MP Jim Karygiannis met with Tiger leaders on a visit to Sri Lanka after the 2004 tsunami, and Liberal MP Gurbax Malhi told a rally of Tiger supporters last year “I am helping you guys, I’m behind you because you’re fighting for the right cause.” He later claimed he “did not realize” the significance of the prominent LTTE flags and featured pro-Tiger speeches.

There is a history of foreign movements successfully building secure bases in Canada to prosecute violence in overseas homelands, says David Harris, former chief of strategic planning for CSIS, now director of the international and terrorist intelligence program at Insignis Strategic Research in Ottawa. There is, for example, frequently more radicalism among Canadian Sikh separatists—with attendant violence including everything from temple brawls to the assassination of journalists and the bombing of Air India Flight 182—than there is in India itself, Mr. Harris says.

The ability of extremists to keep warm here old squabbles from abroad “is another one of Canada’s gifts to the world,” he says. And the government, he believes, is not fully prepared for the kind of underground organizing a sophisticated operation like LTTE is capable of which, he suggests, could well include infiltrating political and judicial institutions.

Overseas, he says, politicians in affected countries affected have occasionally expressed anger at the inability of governments here to tamp out Canadian sponsorship of terror movements abroad. “To the extent that this develops here, from whatever origins, we have to ask ourselves at what point a reasonable foreign entity that’s being targeted by some of our citizens and their affiliates, is entitled, as a matter of self-defense, to regard Canada as some kind of adversary,” he says. “That’s a big issue and it could be a growing one. You cannot wash your hands of these things, if you have … what seem to be shadow armies, formed on our own soil, and launching hostilities against other powers.”

National Post


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## The Bread Guy (14 Aug 2010)

DND's role.....


> The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, made the following statement regarding the boarding of the MV Sun Sea:
> 
> “Yesterday, the Canadian Forces assisted our Government of Canada security partners in apprehending the migrant vessel MV Sun Sea as it entered Canadian territorial waters.
> 
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (14 Aug 2010)

Ship is being escorted to CFB Esquimalt.



> Tamil Ship boarded, Taken to CFB Esquimalt
> 
> The MV Sun Sea is suspected of carrying terrorists has arrived in Victoria, British Columbia.
> A navy vessel had made visual contact at 2:30pm ET before it entered Canadian territorial waters at 5:30pm ET. HMCS Winnipeg had radio contact with the vessel. The Sun Sea captain stated he had refugees on board before being boarded by the crew of the Canadian frigate.
> ...


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## medicineman (14 Aug 2010)

T6 - she actually was delivered about 0630 yesterday morning...my present work spot is actually spitting distance from the jetty they berthed at.  

MM


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## tomahawk6 (15 Aug 2010)

medicineman said:
			
		

> T6 - she actually was delivered about 0630 yesterday morning...my present work spot is actually spitting distance from the jetty they berthed at.
> 
> MM



Thanks for the correction. Will the Tamil's be allowed to stay or will they be sent back ?


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## Edward Campbell (15 Aug 2010)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the correction. Will the Tamil's be allowed to stay or will they be sent back ?




Now that they are landed the whole, cumbersome, ill-conceived refugee determination and admissibility process must be followed. They, almost all of them, anyway, will stay - some, probably most, will endure the whole, lengthy process, others will just, quietly, disappear into the Tamil diaspora.

There are many, many Tamils in Canada - some, maybe a lot, sympathize, at least, with the Tamil Tigers' aims; most, whatever their "old country' political beliefs are productive Canadians who _integrate_ with, seemingly, less difficulty than is experienced by, say, Arabs, Africans and even Latin Americans.


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## Loachman (15 Aug 2010)

There were a lot of Tamil kids at a Toronto high school at which my wife taught in the mid-nineties. They were the most polite and hard-working students, as a group, that she'd ever had. They were a much more cohesive group than any other at the school as well, and frequently had evening ceremonies at the school to mark religious occasions and other such events. We went to most, if not all, of these events, as they had stage performances and, most appreciated by me, interesting food. I remain quite prejudiced in favour of Tamils. From what I saw, they have made a better than average contribution to this country.


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## MarkOttawa (15 Aug 2010)

A post at _Unambiguously Ambidextrous_:

Tamils and MV Sun Sea: Mickey I. gets it right
http://unambig.com/tamils-and-mv-sun-sea-mickey-i-gets-it-right/



> We are not Australia…and thinks that’s a Good Thing...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Edward Campbell (15 Aug 2010)

The fact that Tamils, for example, make excellent immigrants does not, in any way, mean that our refugee system is anything but a load of codswallop. We need a government that will take immigration and, completely separately, refugee policies seriously and get us adequate numbers of suitable immigrants and, separately, deal with the sad, global problems of refugees.

One problem, refugees, we need to handle at and near the source - by helping to remove the _root causes_ that drive innocent people to leave their homes and seek refuge elsewhere and to help provide support for them, near to their homes.

The second problem, immigration, is something akin to a military recruiting exercise: we need to go out and find the people we want and convince them to come here and join us, we must not just settle for accepting those who want to come here.


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## mariomike (15 Aug 2010)

I have visited many Tamil homes on business. Most of the time in St. Jamestown. There are Tamil neighbourhoods in Malvern,  Kennedy Rd., Kipling, Jane. I think Tuxedo Court was the biggest.


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## Brutus (15 Aug 2010)

Just a quick couple of points.

1- Once the ship is in Canadian waters, it is really tough to turn it back. Apparently the ship's 'Captain' (who IMHO should be arrested, charged, and inprisoned for many years for human smuggling) declared right off the bat there were people aboard who needed asylum/refuge. I'm not 100% up on my immigration law, but I know that if a person says that to a Canadian Official, we are obligated to allow them to make a claim. I guess you could argue that the refugee/asylum seeker themselves did not make that claim (as stated it was the ship's Captain over the radio), and justify turning the ship around on those grounds, but at the very least the spirit of IRPA would have been violated, if not the letter of it. 

2- Refugees claims that are accepted, vetted, and approved are immediately given Permanent Resident Status, which is in accordance with the UN Convention on Refugees and IRPA. It is NOT a temporary refuge.

3- There are two ways to come to Canada as a refugee - the 'proper' way is to apply outside Canada from a country other than that from which you flee (refugee camp for instance). It takes years and only a very small few are accepted. Travel documents are issued and you're flown here to start your new life. The other is to come here under false pretenses (visitor with a visa, or by boat like these people) and claim asylum/refuge. In the second way, CBSA deems you inadmissible due to any number of regs (financial, non-genuine visitor, breaking the law while entering Canada, etc.) but this is put on hold while the refugee claim is assessed. If denied, the inadmissibility kicks in and the removal order enforced. Unfortunately, the wait time is 2 years plus for the hearing. The VAST majority of refugee claimants that choose the second method are denied and sent home (or at least ordered home).


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## aesop081 (15 Aug 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> 1- Once the ship is in Canadian waters, it is really tough to turn it back.



We could have turned it back well before it got into the 12nm zone. The EEZ is not Canadian waters.


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## Brutus (15 Aug 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> We could have turned it back well before it got into the 12nm zone. The EEZ is not Canadian waters.



I was wondering about that. I am sure there's someone here that has a lot of knowlege about International Waters (maybe you?). Under International Law, could we force that ship to change course? What could Canada have legally done to stop; them?


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## HavokFour (17 Aug 2010)

*Tamil case could lead to law change: Harper*​


> Prime Minister Stephen Harper says the federal government "will not hesitate" to change its laws to give authorities greater powers to curb human smuggling in the wake of the arrival of a ship carrying hundreds of Tamil migrants in B.C. last week.
> 
> Speaking to reporters on Tuesday in Mississauga, Ont., the prime minister said Canada is a "land of refuge" but the "abnormal" arrival of a ship carrying migrants creates "significant security concerns" the government has a responsibility to handle.



Read more...


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## Edward Campbell (17 Aug 2010)

HavokFour said:
			
		

> *Tamil case could lead to law change: Harper*​
> Read more...



And that's a fine if, and it's a *vital Big IF*, the law applies to all refugee claimants because the mode of their arrival, including whatever lawbreaking might have contributed to it, is, relatively, unimportant. What is important is that we have a coherent, sensible (comprehensible), consistent refugee policy that, simultaneously, reminds us that we, as a *civilized* society, have a duty to help those who find themselves in legitimate need of refuge and does not make it easy for refugees to migrate to Canada - by legal or illegal means.

We should strengthen the laws regarding human smuggling so that ship's captains and crews will be unwilling to come here; that same law should make it a *crime* to shield human smugglers - as some _"boat people"_ have done by refusing to identify them to the Canadian authorities. That particular crime must carry a penalty that is, pretty much, as bad as the 'punishments' threatened by the smugglers against those who would "rat them out."


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## a_majoor (17 Aug 2010)

Or we could house ALL refugee claimants in a tent city at Resoulute Bay while their cases are processed. Once word gets out I think people will discover other nations with more forthcoming attitudes towards refugees....


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## Brutus (17 Aug 2010)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Or we could house ALL refugee claimants in a tent city at Resoulute Bay while their cases are processed. Once word gets out I think people will discover other nations with more forthcoming attitudes towards refugees....



I don't know about you, but I think that housing them in inhospitable or miserable conditions for the sole purpose of discouraging others seems a little unethical to me. Of course we have to address the security concerns, which Ibelieve are adequatley addressed in housing them in detention centres while their identities and security checks are being completed.


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## Edward Campbell (17 Aug 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> I don't know about you, but I think that housing them in inhospitable or miserable conditions for the sole purpose of discouraging others seems a little unethical to me. Of course we have to address the security concerns, which Ibelieve are adequatley addressed in housing them in detention centres while their identities and security checks are being completed.




I agree with you on both moral and, as I understand them, legal grounds. Changing the laws, massively, is an option; that option *might* even include _concentration camps_; punitive 'housing' is not an option - at least not one that the _Supremes_ would (or could) accept.


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## Brutus (17 Aug 2010)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I agree with you on both moral and, as I understand them, legal grounds. Changing the laws, massively, is an option; that option *might* even include _concentration camps_; punitive 'housing' is not an option - at least not one that the _Supremes_ would (or could) accept.


Changing the laws on where they are housed could happen, but the law changes that Harper has proposed today would be in direct conflict with the Supreme Court and the Charter. Good luck with that Stephen!


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## GAP (17 Aug 2010)

Well, if they are able to come up with $40,000 for the trip, by whatever means, that classifies them as economic migrants.....on the same scale under which we shipped Guatemalans and Mexicans out of the country....


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## George Wallace (17 Aug 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> I don't know about you, but I think that housing them in inhospitable or miserable conditions for the sole purpose of discouraging others seems a little unethical to me. Of course we have to address the security concerns, which Ibelieve are adequatley addressed in housing them in detention centres while their identities and security checks are being completed.



Perhaps locating them in a province/city/town other than Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal may be a bit harsh, but it may also help to integrate them into Canadian culture a little quicker.  We have many towns in rural Canada that are seeing their populations dwindle; would one of them be considered inhospitable and miserable conditions in your mind?  

Canada has a serious problem with new immigrants and refugees settling in the major metropolitan areas and creating ghettos.  Perhaps we should discourage this, and encourage newcomers to settle in smaller towns and villages in rural Canada.


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## Brutus (17 Aug 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> Well, if they are able to come up with $40,000 for the trip, by whatever means, that classifies them as economic migrants.....on the same scale under which we shipped Guatemalans and Mexicans out of the country....



They are applying under a different section of IRPA, so income is irrelevant. 

If they are deemed to be legitimate refugees, they are of course accepted into Canada with open arms. If they are denied, they are removed under any number of inadmisibility classes (financial, non-genuine visitor, terrorism, security, etc.), and can never make another refugee claim again. Usually, they would never be allowed to enter Canada for any reason once they are denied refugee status.


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## Brutus (17 Aug 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Perhaps locating them in a province/city/town other than Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal may be a bit harsh, but it may also help to integrate them into Canadian culture a little quicker.  We have many towns in rural Canada that are seeing their populations dwindle; would one of them be considered inhospitable and miserable conditions in your mind?
> 
> Canada has a serious problem with new immigrants and refugees settling in the major metropolitan areas and creating ghettos.  Perhaps we should discourage this, and encourage newcomers to settle in smaller towns and villages in rural Canada.



I understand what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree with you, but they won't be integrating into any community while incarcerated. The location of the jail is irrelevant this problem. IIRC, new immigrants ARE encouraged to settle in rural and less settled areas, so I suspect the same policy would apply to a successful refugee claimant.


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## GAP (19 Aug 2010)

A use for Baffin Island
Article Link
By MINDELLE JACOBS, Edmonton Sun Last Updated: August 18, 2010

 Admit it. If you were a refugee or pretending to be one -- and had the chance to go asylum shopping, you'd probably pick Canada, too.

No big surprise that the boat carrying 490 Tamils from Sri Lanka made a beeline for Canada instead of docking anywhere else along the way.

Canada means free health care, social assistance and legal fees. It's a safe, tolerant, wealthy country that, as Ezra Levant noted in his column Tuesday, grants broad charter rights to anyone who sets foot on our soil.

Even if you're denied refugee status, the authorities have to find you before they can kick you out of the country. But if you don't bother showing up for your deportation hearing, that stalls the process.

Then the authorities issue a warrant for your arrest. They might find you. But if you put on a good disappearing act, you can probably stay here indefinitely.

After all how many Canada Border Services Agency officials are hunting down the tens of thousands of failed refugee claimants living under the radar?

Because of our generous social programs and reputation as a pushover, Canada is one of the most sought-after countries for refugees and economic migrants. As I pointed out in a piece earlier this year, even the U.S. is among Canada's top-10 source countries for refugee claimants.

We've got it pretty good and lots of people want a piece of the Canadian pie. I wasn't able to get a breakdown of how many refugee claimants arrive in Canada annually by boat, plane and through land crossings in time to make my deadline.

But in terms of asylum seekers abroad, Canada was the third-largest recipient of asylum claims behind the U.S. and France last year. More than 30,000 people abroad applied for asylum in Canada, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). We accepted 12,500 for resettlement.

Every industrialized country is grappling with how to deal fairly and expeditiously with the hundreds of thousands of refugee claimants seeking a safe haven annually. The question is how to balance compassion with the very real concerns that too many refugees can overburden social services.

And the waves of would-be citizens will keep coming. There were 43 million people forcibly displaced worldwide in 2009, the highest number of people uprooted by conflict and persecution since the mid-1990s, notes the UNHCR. It adds that the number of refugees voluntarily returning to their home countries has fallen to its lowest level in two decades.

Personally, I would rather Canada pluck people out of refugee camps, where many have been living in terrible conditions for years, than take in people who are wealthy enough to pay suspected human smugglers $50,000 for a ticket to the good life.

But not all refugees are poverty- stricken, I suppose, and we have to respect the system that's in place. We can't blow up a foreign boat nearing our shores. And we can't turn boats away without giving refugee claimants a hearing. We do, after all, have to adhere to certain standards of decency and law. (Asylum seekers routinely arrive by plane and we don't shoot them, for heaven's sake.)

What we can do is speedily process refugee claimants and deport those who aren't real refugees. That's the intent of the new refugee reform legislation and if it requires more staff, let the feds go on a hiring spree.

As for the disappearing act, we don't have Christmas Island to process claimants like Australia does. But, hey, there's always Baffin Island. 
end


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## The Bread Guy (6 Sep 2010)

HavokFour said:
			
		

> *Tamil case could lead to law change: Harper*​
> Read more...



More along these lines, from the Canadian Press:


> The Conservatives are whittling down their legal options to go after rogue boats filled with migrants trying to get to Canada.
> 
> Public Safety Minister Vic Toews is expected to take a list of choices before cabinet during the week of Sept. 13.
> 
> ...


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## EpicBeardedMan (7 Sep 2010)

I don't like how people from other countries are exploiting our country for their own gain. Just isn't right. I know people will be like "Well, we're Canada, that's what we do" but when the country is swarming with terrorists and/or refugees that never work and just suck welfare money out of the system, there are still going to be people going "Wow, how did THIS happen?"


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## Edward Campbell (7 Sep 2010)

It is trite to say but we are a "nation of immigrants." Damned few of us are, within the last few generations, not from somewhere else. It is true that most recent *immigrants** have darker skin tones and different eye shapes from some of us - that makes them and their Canadian born children or grandchildren no less Canadian than I. They, *immigrants* _per se_, also have better educations but still manage to earn less than native born Canadians - maybe because of somewhat lesser social and language skills, maybe because of their skin colour or eye shape.

Refugees - real or contrived - are likely to *need* social assistance. By definition, almost, refugees arrive with the shirt on their backs and no real, useful skills. We take them in (even when we should not) as an act of human compassion. Real immigrants are, broadly, less likely to use social assistance than are native born Canadians.

Despite recent arrests and convictions we are hardly "swimming" in terrorists.


----------
* Immigrants and refugees are not the same; they are not even very much alike. It is fundamentally wrong to consider them together - as most people in Canada do.


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## Brutus (7 Sep 2010)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> I don't like how people from other countries are exploiting our country for their own gain. Just isn't right. I know people will be like "Well, we're Canada, that's what we do" but when the country is swarming with terrorists and/or refugees that never work and just suck welfare money out of the system, there are still going to be people going "Wow, how did THIS happen?"



Are you referring to the alleged refugees or the smugglers?


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## EpicBeardedMan (7 Sep 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> Are you referring to the alleged refugees or the smugglers?



I'm referring to the whole situation as being ridiculous. The people probably paid the Tamil Tigers for a "ticket" on the boat. Canada wasn't even their FIRST CHOICE. They were in Australia apparently before getting booted from there and then came here. I just find it odd/sad that people can come here and get welfare, health care, etc, while we have a lot of homeless people who are living on the streets.


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Sep 2010)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> I just find it odd/sad that people can come here and get welfare, health care, etc, while we have a lot of homeless people who are living on the streets.




We give it to fourth generation baby factories and their baby daddys, all of whom have no intention of doing anything but sucking the system dry. 

Most people are homeless because they want to be. No amount of cajoling, free aid or shelter will get them to change. Many of those 'homeless' with the Timmies cup in front of them on the sidewalk, make a better (tax free) daily earning than a lot of working people.

At least if someone immigrates and collects the standard aid, there is a very good chance that they will end up becoming productive citizen and putting back into the system.

Not so our 'homeless' and professional welfare deadbeats.


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## Brutus (7 Sep 2010)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> I'm referring to the whole situation as being ridiculous. The people probably paid the Tamil Tigers for a "ticket" on the boat. Canada wasn't even their FIRST CHOICE. They were in Australia apparently before getting booted from there and then came here. I just find it odd/sad that people can come here and get welfare, health care, etc, while we have a lot of homeless people who are living on the streets.



The reason why I was asking was that there is a misconception out there, perpetuated unfortunately by our government, that these potential refugees have somehow 'jumped the line' with regards to their refugee protection application.

There are two methods of claiming refugee status - from outside of Canada and from inside of Canada. The preferred method is from outside Canada, where the process takes years and the person is fully vetted prior to ever stepping on Canadian soil. The other method is from inside Canada where the person shows up and the process begins here. 

Technically, these people broke numerous laws in getting here, and are certainly 'inadmissible' under IRPA (financial, non-genuine visitor, violation of IRPA in crossing the border, etc.), and they will have a removal order placed against them pending the outcome of their refugee hearing. The removal order will be stayed until that hearing is concluded and if they are denied refugee status they will be removed under the removal order and barred from Canada for life (including any future refugee claims). If they are accepted, the removal order and inadmissibility designation will be lifted and they will be settled here. This is all above board and in accordance with IRPA.

The only real KNOWN criminal element here is the smuggling, and they should be punished SEVERELY. Of course, if these people are deemed not in fact to be refugees, and merely terrorists, they will be rejected and sent packin'.


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## EpicBeardedMan (7 Sep 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> The only real KNOWN criminal element here is the smuggling, and they should be punished SEVERELY. Of course, if these people are deemed not in fact to be refugees, and merely terrorists, they will be rejected and sent packin'.



Are there any other consequences besides just sending them packing? Just curious to know if they'll be put behind bars (The people who should be, not the refugees).


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## Brutus (7 Sep 2010)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Are there any other consequences besides just sending them packing? Just curious to know if they'll be put behind bars (The people who should be, not the refugees).



Yes, the CCC covers the crime of human smuggling, and they certainly can be incarcirated and have their ship seized. However, the ship is basically worthless so there's not much deterance in the seizure. I suspect they view the ship as a disposable commodity and the seizure as a foregone conclusion and a cost of doing business.

The 'sending em packin' comment was meant for the smuggled people who end up being determined NOT to be true refugees.


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## HavokFour (7 Sep 2010)

Been listening to the radio lately and there has been a lot of talk about these refugee's being rather uncooperative by not giving up the captain and crews identity. If anyone has an article on it that would be something good to post.


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## J.J (7 Sep 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> Yes, the CCC covers the crime of human smuggling, and they certainly can be incarcirated and have their ship seized. However, the ship is basically worthless so there's not much deterance in the seizure. I suspect they view the ship as a disposable commodity and the seizure as a foregone conclusion and a cost of doing business.
> 
> The 'sending em packin' comment was meant for the smuggled people who end up being determined NOT to be true refugees.



Can you please reference what section of the CCC does Human Smuggling fall under? I am aware of it in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA), but not the CCC?

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/I-2.5/page-4.html#codese:117

section 117 

Penalty — 10 persons or more

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) with respect to a group of 10 persons or more is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction by way of indictment to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 or to life imprisonment, or to both.


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## Brutus (7 Sep 2010)

WR said:
			
		

> Can you please reference what section of the CCC does Human Smuggling fall under? I am aware of it in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA), but not the CCC?
> 
> http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/I-2.5/page-4.html#codese:117
> 
> ...


My mistake...the CCC revisions were in reference to human trafficking, not smuggling. The ref you provided for IRPA is the current 'hammer' to be used against human smugglers. Not too bad if you ask me. (In general, IRPA is fairly 'heavy' WRT fines and imprisonment as compared to the CCC).


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## HavokFour (8 Oct 2010)

*Canada hunting third Tamil immigrant ship - report*​


> Authorities are using satellites to determine the location of the ship, the Toronto Sun newspaper reported.
> 
> In August, officials detained 492 Tamil migrants who arrived on board the MV Sun Sea from Sri Lanka.
> 
> ...



Article

Here we go again...  :-\


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## lethalLemon (8 Oct 2010)

I can understand where they're coming from; a relative of mine did UN work in Sri Lanka (before the civil wars) and various other troubled regions in the world - these people aren't coming because they want to terrorize our country (although you can't say that for all of them), they're making the long dangerous trip because their [former] homes are not suitable for... well... anything.

I do think that the Feds should bring them in, screen them, and then determine whether they can be held for immigration processing (can they do that?) and turn away those that are deemed fit.


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## kratz (7 Mar 2011)

So the government has attempted to remove one of these individuals as having suspected links with the Tamil Tigers. Today's report  states the Immigration court has rejected the government's claims and says he is not a threat to national security.


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## old medic (6 Jun 2011)

Police discover Sun Sea’s link to Norway
Stewart Bell 
6 June 2011

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/06/police-discover-sun-seas-link-to-norway/



> The Bangkok-based human smugglers who have so far sent two shiploads of illegal migrants to Canada have been called “sophisticated” and “well organized.” But nobody ever said they were perfect.
> 
> Before the last ship, the MV Sun Sea, left Thailand in July carrying almost 500 Sri Lankan migrants, the smugglers made the passengers sign contracts that spelled out how much each owed for the journey to Canada.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (15 May 2012)

Bumped with the latest charges by RCMP - this from the Mounties' Info-machine:





> On May 14, 2012 Kunarobinson Christhurajah and Lesly Jana Emmanuel were both charged with one count of Organizing Entry into Canada contrary to Sec 117 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) for their involvement with the MV Sun Sea, a migrant vessel that brought 492 illegal immigrants to Canada in August of 2010. These charges follow a similar charge against Thayakaran Markandu announced earlier this year. Unlike Markandu, however, Christhurajah and Emmanuel are currently in British Columbia, and have been arrested by RCMP Federal investigators. Their first Court appearance is scheduled for May 16, 2012.
> 
> "The investigation into the arrival of the MV Sun Sea and those responsible for the organization of the illegal entry into Canada remains a priority for the RCMP," says Superintendent Derek Simmonds, Officer in Charge of the British Columbia Federal Border Integrity Program. "RCMP Federal investigators continue to work with international partners, the Public Prosecution Service of Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency to ensure all of the evidence which can be gathered is secured and ready to be presented to the Courts."
> 
> Supt Simmonds says the RCMP is continuing the investigation of the organization, voyage and arrival of the MV Sun Sea ....


More here (via Google News)


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