# New (Issue) Rain Gear VS Stealth Suits



## toughenough (8 Jan 2008)

For anyone that has been issued the new rain gear, has it rendered your stealth suit obsolete, or is it still a better wet weather solution? I'm debating buying one versus waiting out on the rain gear to make its way to me over the next year or two (or however long).

Thanks in advance!


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## PhilB (8 Jan 2008)

I would say no. I like the new rain jacket but it has some "field usage" short falls. I find that it is loud and "crinkles" I guess. Additionally the jacket is somewhat bulk and does not pack that small. It does not breath as well as the stealth suit, and is bit, long, and can feel cumbersome at times, particularly while underneath your LBE. I used a combination of the rain jacket and the stealth suit on the BTE. I kept my stealth suit with my all the time because it is small, and a good insulating layer, and protects you from most of the rain you experience in Alberta (light drizzel). I had the rain jacket and pants for the couple times it was really raining hard. No issues with it keep me dry. Overall I think the rain jacket is a good piece of kit but does not replace the stealth suit.


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## Eric_911 (8 Jan 2008)

They're really two completely different coats. As PhilB says, the issue raingear doesn't breathe quite as well. It is definitely bulkier, even more-so then its "Air Force" raingear counterpart. That being said, it is warmer then the stealth suit. (It has a thin liner). It is definitely not as tactical as the stealth suit because of its crinkle/noise factor.

Although the issue raincoat is an outer garment, whereas the stealth suit is "generally" used as an inner layer under the combat shirt, I find the "issue" raingear to be a much sturdier fabric, more resilient to random snags. (My stealth suit has some small snags even from wearing it under my combat shirt). The issue raingear also has reinforced elbows and knees (reinforced with what looks like Cordura).

I have both, and I believe, based on the weather, how long you're going to be outside, and what you'll actually be doing outside, both garments satisfy different requirements.

IMO, the new issued raingear is a good intermediary between "no coat" and the ICE/IECS coat. It is also quicker to put on and take off then the stealth suit (being that it is an outer layer). I would also prefer to wear the issue raingear during a downpour.

I also found, that by layering the Fleece with the Issued Raincoat, that I could keep warmer then if I was wearing just the ICE coat.

Eric

edit for grammar


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## PhilB (8 Jan 2008)

Eric_911 said:
			
		

> IMO, the new issued raingear is a good intermediary between "no coat" and the ICE/IECS coat. It is also quicker to put on and take off then the stealth suit (being that it is an outer layer). I would also prefer to wear the issue raingear during a downpour.



+1


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## Cardstonkid (8 Jan 2008)

On my CAP course the Airforce Intel boys had their new rain coats and we the poor Army boys had to buy our Stealth Suits to have any hope to keep warm and dry. By all accounts the new rain coats are great, especially when the weather is cold and wet. (The guys I was with said it negated the need for a stealth suit in the cold/wet, but  they would prefer the stealth suit if it was warmer and wet.) My Stealth suit was a life saver but I would have loved to have had the new rain coat as an outer jacket and to then have kept the Stealth suit as an undergarment. The general consensus as I recall was that the new rain coat was top notch but that the Stealth Suit was still a useful piece of kit.


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## Armymedic (8 Jan 2008)

I have both the new rain suit and a stealth jacket.. The rain gear jacket is not great in the rain when you are working (sweating). It is not a "breathable" layer as Gore-tex is. 

In cool, wet weather (like right now in Ont/Que +10 and rain), I will wear my stealth jacket under my coat in a layered system similar to what you would do for cold wearther. What I find excellent:

If under armour and helmet, I will remove the rain jacket hood, and keep the stealth hood up under the helmet. What little rain that does get down teh neck of the coat stays off me.

I highly recommend a stealth suit if you are infantry, or in the field a lot, regardless of the rain gear you have.. Money well spent.


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## toughenough (9 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys.

Cheers!


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## westie47 (9 Jan 2008)

I have the Stealth jacket, as well as both the army and the air force rain gear. I prefer the army version over the air force version. I have worn just the jacket as well as the set. I really like it. I cut the mesh liner out of my rain jacket. It allows it to pack smaller as well as lightening it. The drawback is you may feel the 'coldness' of the rain on your back more. I really like the pit zips but the sleeve pockets leave something to be desired, ok if you put smokes in it, but not good for much else. The pants are easy to don/doff, with the zips up the sides. When I got the army stuff issued, I asked for one size larger.  They will issue you the set in the same size as your combats, which makes for a bit of a snugger fit.  I prefer the looser, smock-style myself. All in all, it is comparable to the three or four civvie Cadpat gore-tex  rain jackets that are out there (CP, Dave's, OTTE, ICE)


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## Eric_911 (9 Jan 2008)

westie47 said:
			
		

> I cut the mesh liner out of my rain jacket.



Which one, the Army or the Air-force version? With the liner out, does it pack just as well as the stealth suit? I imagine it would still be a little bulkier...

(PS: hope its not on your doc's ,  Clothing will likely sh*t on you for the mod) Although... Maybe that should be something for DSSPM to look into. (an actual removable liner, zippered or velcro'ed into the jacket) Thoughts?

Cheers, 

Eric


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## medaid (9 Jan 2008)

Eric_911 said:
			
		

> (an actual removable liner, zippered or velcro'ed into the jacket) Thoughts?



Velcro will wear out WAY too soon in an everyday usage IMO. If it's zipped in and out it'll have longer life, or even snap, or better yet, the old button and hole method. one button each on the sleeves and on at the collar, and one each top and bottom on each side. 

The old M65 style liner is the cat's MEOW, I find that they're the best layering option at times.


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## Eric_911 (10 Jan 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Velcro will wear out WAY too soon in an everyday usage IMO.



In all fairness, you wouldn't be ripping the liner out of the coat everyday, but in the long term, I suppose you're right.



			
				MedTech said:
			
		

> or better yet, the old button and hole method. one button each on the sleeves and on at the collar, and one each top and bottom on each side. The old M65 style liner is the cat's MEOW, I find that they're the best layering option at times.



As well as the fleece, I also wore the old "M65" type jacket liner from my old combat jacket with the new raincoat during Ex MG/DR. It was excellent for warmth. Kinda annoying though because of it always slipping out when taking off the jacket.

In the very hypothetical scenario where a removable liner was introduced as an enhancement on future coats, zippers could be used in the front of the coat, but it would be a challenge to use zipper on the collar and in the sleeve. IMO, I find the "button and hole" method a little outdated, (yes, it still does the job) but using good quality snaps on the collar and in the sleeve might be a better option.

Cheers,

Eric

_edit: spelling_


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## Bzzliteyr (10 Jan 2008)

I am currently in Afghanistan and the rainy season has begun.

I have yet to use my Army issued AR rain gear.  I have only used my stealth suit under my combat shirt with the frag and helmet over it.  I am a crewman and I live in my turret.  The last few days were horribly windy and rainy yet during the operation I was on, I was suprisingly comfortable.

A thing I noted with the rain gear is it's bulkiness.  My troops that wear it, tend to have to readjust all their gear to fit with it on (tacvest especially).  I like the quick thin protection the steatlh suit affords me and most of the time, I don't even notice that my arms are sitting in puddles on the turret when I have it on.

In the end however, it's all about how you feel wearing one or the other.  I am a "polar bear" of sorts so I don't need all the bulk, plus I am a small fellow who can't afford to walk around looking like my mom dressed me and I need to be able to move around in my turret so for me the stealth suit is ideal.


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## geo (10 Jan 2008)

Eric_911 said:
			
		

> In all fairness, you wouldn't be ripping the liner out of the coat everyday, but in the long term, I suppose you're right.
> 
> As well as the fleece, I also wore the old "M65" type jacket liner from my old combat jacket with the new raincoat during Ex MG/DR. It was excellent for warmth. Kinda annoying though because of it always slipping out when taking off the jacket.



did the same with my rain jacket but, used stitched on some velcro tabs onto my old combat jacket liner and glued the opposite velcro tab into the rain jacket.... it works very well and the liner doesn't move around.

It works for me, the tabs can be replaced at very little cost if & when they ever wear out.


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## Eric_911 (10 Jan 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> stitched on some velcro tabs onto my old combat jacket liner and glued the opposite velcro tab into the rain jacket



That sounds like a pretty simple solution. Would you be able to post a picture of the mod?


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## geo (10 Jan 2008)

Will have to wait a wee bit as I smashed my camera in November when I had a WWB incident & sectioned my right leg's Quadricepts & lateral muscles.

Note that, fleece would work even better without the velcro liner because it is fuzzy on the outside & hooks are on the inside... though that proved a bit of a problem in itself (when I want to continue wearing fleece without rain gear) solved by placing velcro fizzy over the hooks.


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## medaid (10 Jan 2008)

Eric_911 said:
			
		

> In all fairness, you wouldn't be ripping the liner out of the coat everyday, but in the long term, I suppose you're right.



Nope you're absolutely right. But I've used some pretty crappy velcro in my life and they ALWAYS fell apart.. 



			
				Eric_911 said:
			
		

> IMO, I find the "button and hole" method a little outdated, (yes, it still does the job) but using good quality snaps on the collar and in the sleeve might be a better option.



I suggested button and hole because of the ease in maintenance. If it does fall apart, everyone's well... you should have a sewing kit, and inside the kit's got buttons. Away you go again. Not everyone carries snaps, and snaps are not easily repairable in the field.

Geo:

Agreed on the fleece. It would make a better liner. All US Army ECWCS gear has fleece liners now. They're nice and comfy... fleecy goodness!


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## geo (10 Jan 2008)

... fleece liners are also a lot cheaper to produce.


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## Eric_911 (10 Jan 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> I had a WWB incident & sectioned my right leg's Quadricepts & lateral muscles.



And the WWB claims another victim. 

Its funny how the new "non-slip" sole was created with much fanfare, and immediately installed on all new production boots (including the GPB), but they still havent implemented a program or a project to take care of the members who have the old "pre-upgrade" WWB. (ie: a re-sole program or one-for-one exchange)

Its a real piss-off when you have kit that been acknowledged by the military as being dangerous (the old sole on the WWB), and nobody's done anything about it. (Its got to be at least two years since the new non-slip sole was developped). As of right now, they're not paying for the re-sole, and you cant exchange the boots based solely on the fact that they have the old sole.

I sincerely hope you get better soon geo.

[/hijack]

_edit spelling_


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## geo (11 Jan 2008)

Eric... I had my incident with the RESOLED new & improved WWBs
LFQA HQ had all it's personnel turn in 1 pr of their WWBs in Nov of 06 for a "grind & glue" job.
Still have the other "new" pair of WWBs in it's box.... 

Both types are dangerous - IMHO


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## Eric_911 (11 Jan 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> LFQA HQ had all it's personnel turn in 1 pr of their WWBs in Nov of 06 for a "grind & glue" job.



Was this just your unit taking care of taking care of its soldiers, or did the entire base also turn in one pair? 

I've heard a little about the "grind and glue job" several months ago, but last I heard, they werent at the stage of withdrawing the boots from members, but rather they were just re-soling whatever was already on the warehouse/depot shelves.

IMO the current WWB's are crap in so many ways. When I need a WWB, I wear the old "Bosnia era" Prospector Goretex boots.


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## geo (12 Jan 2008)

Far as I know, QG SQFT & 5GSS (ASU) did this all at the same time (at least those in the Montreal area) .... only 1 pr per person.  Project took 6 weeks from the date we turned em in to the date we got em back.

Last winter, I thought they had done a great job - felt a lot more stable than prior..... this year, my opinion has changed considerably.


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## DirtyDog (23 Apr 2008)

This question (the original thread topic) is one I've been asking myself lately.

I have a stealth jacket (which I love) and have been debating whether to spring for the bottoms or wait out for the issued rain gear.  i have had the oppurtunity to borrow some of the new rain gear and for me, it would be for strictly cooler weather only.  I'm a definite winter person who sweats easy and not being able to remove the liner of the rain gear relegates it to pratically winter only.  I can usually get through a moderately cold day spent mostly outside with just polypro, stealth suit and combat shirt.  I put my combat coat on maybe half a dozen times this winter in Pet, granted i wasn't on exercise or anything.  Just a few cold days at the range, taskings, etc.  Usually if I think I might be cold, fleece is enough.  I hate bulking up on clothing unless absolutely neccesary.

That being said, I will probably be buying stealth pants which kind of dissapoints me as that will just mean more kit options/complications when i get the rain gear.  I was hoping to simplify things and be a little less out of pocket.  If only the liners were removable (although the ideas here are interesting).

There's a stealth suit in the 1 RCR kit shop, which appears to be MARPAT and has a removeable fleece liner plus nicities like pockets.  It would be ideal for me outside the fact I couldn't wear it on the outside ala rain gear without fear of jacking.  At $175 for each piece, it isn't cheap, but not a whole lot more then a regular stealth suit.


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## Bzzliteyr (24 Apr 2008)

DD.. just to give you a heads up... I had the new raingear in Afghanistan and turned it back in at the end of tour.. folded in the same way I received it, never used.  That's the top and bottoms.

I tend to use my wind pants for lower protection and my stealth suit top under my combat shirt for upper.  I never wore my goretex jacket once during the whole tour.  We had some pretty chilly and wet days but I was warm with my polypro, stealth then cadpat shirt.


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## DirtyDog (24 Apr 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> DD.. just to give you a heads up... I had the new raingear in Afghanistan and turned it back in at the end of tour.. folded in the same way I received it, never used.  That's the top and bottoms.
> 
> I tend to use my wind pants for lower protection and my stealth suit top under my combat shirt for upper.  I never wore my goretex jacket once during the whole tour.  We had some pretty chilly and wet days but I was warm with my polypro, stealth then cadpat shirt.


Roger.

Sounds like were a like in that regards.  I'm thinking the rain gear will more or less be my everday winter kit.


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## LittleMagellan (13 Jun 2009)

Hi, I was wondering if you guys thought a stealth suit is really worth the moola that it is, for an infantard like myself.


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## MJP (13 Jun 2009)

Easily worth the cash, one of the best pieces of kit I have.  You thank yourself for buying it everytime you have to be out in the rain/wind.


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## Canadian Mind (13 Jun 2009)

I love it, but im always getting rashes and bad abrasions from it, so I end up wearing my thermals underneath it to avoid this, but it gets fucking hot in the summer and on the march.

Is there any way to avoid this, or a thinner liner I can get?


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## George Wallace (13 Jun 2009)

Canadian Mind said:
			
		

> I love it, but im always getting rashes and bad abrasions from it, so I end up wearing my thermals underneath it to avoid this, but it gets fucking hot in the summer and on the march.
> 
> Is there any way to avoid this, or a thinner liner I can get?



There used to be liners for American Cbt Coats that we used to buy for inside our American rainsuits way back when........before we got the latest rainsuits.  It was made out of the same light nylon/rayon as the Ranger Blankets.  A very nice lightweight liner.


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## Canadian Mind (13 Jun 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> There used to be liners for American Cbt Coats that we used to buy for inside our American rainsuits way back when........before we got the latest rainsuits.  It was made out of the same light nylon/rayon as the Ranger Blankets.  A very nice lightweight liner.



Any idea where one could find these? I have Full Spectrum Gear nearby, but they aren't a surplus store.


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## MikeL (13 Jun 2009)

Canadian Mind said:
			
		

> Any idea where one could find these? I have Full Spectrum Gear nearby, but they aren't a surplus store.



Try contacting the PPCLI kitshop.


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## Loachman (13 Jun 2009)

http://www.gcks.ca/catalog/index.php?cPath=69


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## Canadian Mind (13 Jun 2009)

Thanks for the link Loachman!


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## Loachman (13 Jun 2009)

My pleasure.


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## medaid (13 Jun 2009)

Just a warning, not saying GCK isn't a good source for the M65 jacket liners, BUT, you could get them for around $5 if you shop around.


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