# New Canadian Citizens Waiting For The Call !



## PARAMEDIC (14 Nov 2004)

I believe the responses gathered from this post will prove very helpful to non native canadians ( i.e. canadians not born here) be that recent citizens etc..etc..

In my fruitless search to find anything remotely similar to the questions i wanted to ask, I decided to post this up as a guidiing beacon to those seeking answers.

BE FOREWARNED       >>ARMCHAIR VETERANS NEED NOT REPLY>>  

Guidelines: please state facts or in the absence of facts word of mouth from a serving CF member.
                       Any answer you dream up and sounds logical to you is not accepted.
                        Answer only the questions ?? not the comment after the question.


It is painfully long for non native Canadians to get enrolled because most of the waiting period is contributed to the pre security clearence that has to done for non native Canadians through their   respective country's government and for most that is a very long wait, as those governments drag their feet with everything they do ( Iam speaking in context to my previous country), but Im assuming and i maybe wrong but that is the case with most.


1) Is there any way to get the presec to move a little faster, be that speaking to a member of parliment or to the Canadian counsulate in our respective countries.??
 14 to 18 months is far too long for us to put our lives on temporary hold and do odd jobs which we dont like or even   working towards a career, which we would have to drop coz we want to serve and live our primary career.

2) Would the applicant get into hot water for having an MP pull some strings on their behalf ??

I.E have their file tagged, so that where ever they went they would suffer for using (1)
 I know its a strech of the imagination but hey if its not asked how would you know if it does or does not happen.

I will keep adding relevant questions, which if not answered on this site will be posted here.


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## xFusilier (14 Nov 2004)

Firstly, everything you ever wanted to know about the Government of Canada's security clearance policy is here: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/gospubs/TBM_12A/CHAPT2-4_e.asp.  The Department of National Defence does not conduct security clearances for applicants or serving members, this is done through the Solicitor General via the Canadian Security Intellegence Service.  As the level you are applying for is Enhanced, the hold up is most likely confirming the existance or lack of existance of a criminal record in your prior country of residence.

You can contact your Member of Parliament, but the only thing your MP can really do for you is asscertain through the Ministers office what the situation vis-a-vis your clearance is.  Your MP will not be able to influence the situation as this is a big no-no (Members of Parliament placing political pressure on servants of the crown).  However, you might be able to offer to obtain the information yourself and have it forwarded to the approprate office.  As for it being noted that you contacted your MP, it is your right as a citezen to discuss such problems with your Member of Parliament, you cannot officially be held to account for this.


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## pbi (14 Nov 2004)

Explain to me why we should let you serve if we're not sure about your security background? Cheers.


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## Bobby147 (15 Nov 2004)

Hi Paramedic....  If you really want to join force  :warstory:.... keep US forces an option too....  they are hiring aggressively and they recruitment process is fast and if you are involved with active duty they will give you US citizenship too.... :soldier:


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## PARAMEDIC (15 Nov 2004)

Thx for the reply Xfusilier it was insightfull plus had a link very informative. I appreciate you taking the time and effort to find and post that link and giving a little insght to the MP situation, although I have not contacted my MP to act on my behalf.

PBI next time answer the questions not come up with a smartasss comment my friend's 2 yr old nephew could come up with. Go through your reply again and ask yourself, if you in any part of that sentence came remotly close to answering the question. If you wanna know why im coming down hard on you take a look above your post, if Xfusilier can take the time and effort in to a well thoughtout answer even going above and beyond by placing a link, it just annoys the shite out of me that you would be so callus by posting a juvenile response like that.

These questions are aimed to help non native Canadians not make mistakes by contacting their MP(if that was a no- no) or stepping on peoples toes,hence making their term in the CF a displeasureable one. This was not a post to see if the applicant could circumnaviigate the official channels but rather a way to see if anything could be done on the applicant's end to expidite the process  Which if they didnt get to read xfusilier's response and had only your response to go with could cause them a great amount of grief.

On a lighter note bobby I dont need the red white and blue, i will stay with the red white and red   lol ;D they can keep their citizenship
thats the reason I moved here, but thx anyways for the reply.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC, two things, in this day and age PBI's question is very relevent, why can't you answer it?
Second, cut out the attitude or further action will be taken against you on this site, obviously your "verbal" warning did little good.
I suggest you go back and check out YOUR original post and wonder why people go : when you post.


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## Cloud Cover (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC: if it helps, perhaps you should print off all of your outstanding posts on this website and send them to CFRC so you can demonstrate the value of your commitment to the team, and in turn they may have a clearer picture as to the reliability of your character. Or, maybe someone has already done that for you. Cheers


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## rcr (15 Nov 2004)

Perhaps you should check out the profiles of these fine folks who are replying to you.  They've all earned a degree of respect, more so than you seem to be offering them.  Just a friendly suggestion. Good luck to you, Paramedic.


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## Guardian (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> PBI next time answer the questions not come up with a smartasss comment my friend's 2 yr old nephew could come up with. Go through your reply again and ask yourself, if you in any part of that sentence came remotly close to answering the question. If you wanna know why im coming down hard on you take a look above your post, if Xfusilier can take the time and effort in to a well thoughtout answer even going above and beyond by placing a link, it just annoys the shite out of me that you would be so callus by posting a juvenile response like that.



Smart*** ? Juvenile?

Rest assured that recruiting officers pose exactly that question. Be certain that CSIS is putting valuable resources into answering that question. 

The security clearance takes a while for native Canadians, too. We try to take it seriously as we are in a life and death business here.

PARAMEDIC, if you make friends in the Army the way you do on this board, I'm sure you'll go far. Check your attitude.


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## cgyflames01 (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC, I doubt there is much you can do to change your situation. It takes along time for CSIS to conduct there checks, especially if your from a foreign country. Canada doesn't want to train people, who they may later regret. IE. Training terrorist's, and those with a violent past. Furthermore; the waiting game is an important part of life, that we both will have to get used to. As I'm in my 2nd month of merit listing.


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## Torlyn (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> I.E have their file tagged, so that where ever they went they would suffer for using (1)
> I know its a strech of the imagination but hey if its not asked how would you know if it does or does not happen.



Interesting post...  I know that for those of us born here, we're still waiting a hell of a long time, but it's part and parcel of the deal.  As for talking to your MP, what I'd suggest is at most complaining about the recruitment process, and asking what your MP plans to do to rectify the situation for ALL Canadians, and not just your own particular case.

As for having your file tagged, I haven't a clue how the official channels work.  After talking to several standing members, however, one thing you absolutely need to avoid is being labelled an "administrative burden" either officially or unofficially.  And, complaining to your MP to try and get your application sped up would probably say to the CF that if the current process you're dealing with doesn't work, you'll complain higher.  I'm not sure, but that sorta says to me that if things don't work out the way you want them to, you'll try and undermine the system and find an easier way to achieve your goals.  I don't know that corporate ladder-climbing is an admirable trait for the armed forces.  I hope I'm wrong, and that I misconstrued your post.

Either way, there is nothing you can do to speed up your process.  I highly doubt CSIS would consider a security clearance valid if you were the one to garner said information a la xFusilier.  The system is in place for a reason, and needs to be dealt with by all prospective members.

While I'm certain that CSIS won't find anything negative in your background check, the process is slow, and you have to afford them that time.  As for putting your career on hold, or staying in a job you don't like, what's to stop you from looking?  It may be that during the waiting period you find a job that  you may end up wanting to forgo a full-time military career to pursue.  Don't stop your life just because you've applied, There's always a chance you may not get in.  That said, given the propensity for people nowadays to go through life with 5-8 "careers", why pigeon-hole yourself already?  Take some courses to make yourself more selectable by the CF, or push towards a degree/diploma.  It's been my experience that people who are willing to work jobber-jobs just because are going to be unhappy regardless of the vocation they end up choosing.  If you know you've got an extended period of time before you go before the selection boards, USE that time.

I mean, which looks better on the application, that you've been pumping gas (no offense to any gas jockeys, used to be one) with a degree, or that you've gone out and gotten a job that has more responsibilities, and supervisory-type experience?  Just my 2 cents after extended discussions with my recruiting captain and various serving members.  Cheers.

T


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## X Royal (15 Nov 2004)

I would hope that when you applied for Canadian citizenship they would of done a criminal background check on you. If this is the case then your record would be on file with a federal government department somewhere.


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## pbi (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> PBI next time answer the questions not come up with a smartasss comment my friend's 2 yr old nephew could come up with. Go through your reply again and ask yourself, if you in any part of that sentence came remotly close to answering the question. If you wanna know why im coming down hard on you take a look above your post, if Xfusilier can take the time and effort in to a well thoughtout answer even going above and beyond by placing a link, it just annoys the shite out of me that you would be so callus by posting a juvenile response like that.



Explain to me why we should let you serve if we're not sure about your security background? Cheers.


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## bossi (15 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> It is painfully long for non native Canadians to get enrolled ... as those governments drag their feet with everything they do ( Iam speaking in context to my previous country)



How long would it take for a Canadian to join the Army in your previous country?



			
				PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> 14 to 18 months is far too long for us to put our lives on temporary hold and do odd jobs which we dont like or even working towards a career, which we would have to drop coz we want to serve and live our primary career.



Let's keep this in perspective:  Some people have to wait two or three years, simply because they are two or three years too young to join.  However, their desire to serve Canada in the Canadian Forces is such that they do odd jobs which they don't like until they can join.

So, do you want to serve Canada, or do you only want a paycheque?


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## Britney Spears (16 Nov 2004)

> BE FOREWARNED   Angry Angry >>ARMCHAIR VETERANS NEED NOT REPLY>> Angry Angry



Oh the irony....


On a lighter note ( or perhaps not, if you work in recruiting), here's a way to circumvent the security check.

1) Join the CF after completing and submitting your Incredibly detailed security clearance form (IDSCF, 3 page, C-1A1).

2) Assume that the security clearance went through, noting with pleasant suprise that it only took 2 weeks, not the 10 month that was promised.

3) Complete all training with reasonably good conduct, serve on operations overseas. Attain rank of Cpl. Also plot insidious acts of terrorism while getting plastered in the JRs.

4) Just as you planned, the original IDSCF had, in fact been lost in the paper shuffles around the orderly room. 

5) 4 years later, someone finally notices that you don't have ANY security clearance, and notifies you(upon return from operations overseas) in a panic striken voice that you were never suppose to be allowed in the army to begin with, and that you must submit a new IDSCF form ASAP.

6) Laugh at orderly room, complain that the IDSCF took too damn long, and that you don't have any of the required documents and references handy. Ask for release(much easier) instead.

7) After 5 min. of step 6, fill out and submit IDSCF again. but at this point, who really gives a fuck.


Think it can't happen?


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## bossi (16 Nov 2004)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> On a lighter note ... here's a way to circumvent the security check ...
> etc.
> Think it can't happen?



Geez - that'd sure make somebody think twice before they'd join your Air Cadet corps ...


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## koach (16 Nov 2004)

The form that you are talking about doesn't exist.


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## Britney Spears (16 Nov 2004)

> Geez - that'd sure make somebody think twice before they'd join your Air Cadet corps ...  Wink



Good thing we don't fly 737s.



> The form that you are talking about doesn't exist.



Apparently not. Gotta keep those troops on their toes now......


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## aesop081 (16 Nov 2004)

Hey, if you think that its only ppl that are not in the army that have to wait long for CSIS to get the job done....

My MOC requires level 3..........i am only level 2.  I NEED my upgrade......i have been in the military for 12 years and i have been waiting a year now for my level 3 and if i dont get it, i get " not operationaly employable" stamped on my ration card.

No desert for me....lol


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## PARAMEDIC (16 Nov 2004)

I guess comprehension is not a big virtue around here, which has been proven one too many times. reading a line that rubs you the wrong way and firing off a reply without actually understanding the circumstance or even lack of trying to comprehend what is being asked is depressing.

to bruce monkhouse : It was not the relvancy of PBI's question that was being discussed and whether I could answer his question but rather the fact that he did not give an answer merely state an opinion. which like you said if I do go back up to the original post and take a look at it,* it states that what non native canadians should or shouldn't do or what can be done on the applicant's end to facilitate the process so that it goes smoothly hence cutting down the wait time*.  The validity of why the CF should hire me without knowing anything 
about me was never in the question.

As to your accusation of me giving PBI attitute is way off the mark, it was a simple question as to if PBI answered any part of the question. To further the wrath of the army.ca forum gods ( ironic where the attitude is coming from)

This isnt a point counter point   rant, im just clearing the air as to what I asked and what was being replied

to gaurdian :   Its not that   the officers would ask me exactly what you have mentioned but the Original post was asking if anything could be done on the applicant's end to help make the process a smoother and faster one.

to toryln: thank you, finally someone who understands whats being asked and provides a detailed answer to the questions. 
 its not that i take xfusilier's post at face value but at least he made an effort to answer a major concern to the best of his ability.

To clear things up, it is not for my application that I posted this I have been waitiing and can still wait till I get in .
*Like I had said in the original post this was to help non native Canadians who MIGHT  take into consideration an opinion from a friend or whoever, to chance a letter to their MP, would come across this post and reconsider their action.*

Thx for the help guys, really appreciate it.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC,
I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with you, since I have to spell it out for you about what "attitude" you are giving here it is,

BE FOREWARNED          >>ARMCHAIR VETERANS NEED NOT REPLY>>     

Guidelines: please state facts or in the absence of facts word of mouth from a serving CF member.
                       Any answer you dream up and sounds logical to you is not accepted.
                        Answer only the questions ?? not the comment after the question.

If you had left this piece of rubbish out you may have gotten some good answers from some of those very people who got pissed over this.
Someone gave you some advice about looking at the service of some of the personal who responded to your post negatively, those people have done their service and do not require attitude from some newbie.
Since you have very little info in your profile I will guess by your user name that you work in the Med. field....how would you react if I went on a medical forum and started spouting with attitude towards you while I was seeking advice at the same time?


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## Cloud Cover (16 Nov 2004)

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> .. stepping on peoples toes, hence making their term in the CF a displeasureable one.



Well ... looks like you're off to a great start then, aren't you?   :


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## bossi (16 Nov 2004)

... and I notice a dearth of response to my questions ...
Oh, well ... I guess introspection isn't important - it's easier to blame those white males ...


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## PARAMEDIC (16 Nov 2004)

Bossi it was for the simple fact that because they have spent their years in service that I solicited their advice.

The forewarning was for the newbies (aka socom superheros ) who wanted to express an opinion on the subject thinking they were qualified just becase they had some posts on a military forum, but im sure you understood that at first glance. The only people who would or should be offended by that statement are the ones with no official military service.

Im just curious how the h3ll you work the race card into that equation??? pm me im curious 
seriously bro, you should read my remarks on blackberry's post before you pull that on me.


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## Infanteer (16 Nov 2004)

> As to your accusation of me giving PBI attitute is way off the mark, it was a simple question as to if PBI answered any part of the question. To further the wrath of the army.ca forum gods ( ironic where the attitude is coming from)



You can always leave if you don't like it.


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## bossi (16 Nov 2004)

bossi said:
			
		

> How long would it take for a Canadian to join the Army in your previous country?
> 
> So, do you want to serve Canada, or do you only want a paycheque?



Hmmm ... notwithstanding the eloquently written, preceding post ... which I can't help but think that you've mistaken me for somebody else (but, hey - I understand - we all look the same ...)

I still can't find any answers to the questions posed previously.

P.S. (the reference to white males stems from a Ryerson article, mentioned in another thread)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22619/post-121932.html#msg121932


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## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Nov 2004)

Goalies all look the same? ??? :-*


...and since it seems there really are no answers that the forum can provide, I'm going to lock this one up before the snow snakes get everywhere.
PARAMEDIC, for what it is worth the question was good...its the delivery that sucked.


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