# C7 Help!



## ab00013 (19 Jan 2005)

Hopefully somebody out there can help me. I'm in reserve BMQ and we've had a few weekends of C7 training (just up to the point of how to load/unload). We seem to be going through everything so fast. Anyways, I have a few questions that hopefully somebody can answer for me, so I don't have to go ask the MCpls and sound like I haven't been paying attention (which I have been!) and an idiot.   :-[ Also, 2 weekends from now I have the weapons handling test, which I'm really worried about. 

First Question â â€œ I know how to do the safety precautions, but I was just wondering - do you ever attempt to put the weapon on â Å“Sâ ? before you do your safety precautions? Just like you do before you unload. Why not?

Second Question â â€œ Okay, this is going to sound really stupid but they haven't explained to us exactly how the c7 (or any rifle for that matter) works.   Lets assume you are on the range or anywhere else and you pick up the C7 and do safety precautions and instead of "clear", there is a round in the chamber...what do you do? Is that why during the safety precautions you aim and fire? Or is that a negligent discharge? 

Ok hopefully I don't sound like a real idiot. I just hope someone can answer these questions for me before the next time I go in. BTW, don't worry I'm going to go ask for them to go over everything again! Just incase you think I sound like I have no idea what I'm doing! I've been trying as much as possible to study that sheet they give you and tell you to fold up in your pocket about the C7. (You know the sheet with specs, how to unload, load, field strip, detail strip, etc.)

Anyone have any additional info that would be helpful, it would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!


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## Sharpey (19 Jan 2005)

Question 1. INDIVIDUAL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS:

a.	bring the cocking handle back and hold it to the rear;

b.	tilt the weapon to the left, bring it up to eye level parallel to the ground, and check the inside of the chamber;

c.	return the bolt carrier forward under control, push the forward assist; and

d.	shoulder, aim, fire the action, close the ejection port cover from the shoulder and return to the standing load position (weapon at 45 degrees).

No mention of placing on safe. If the weapon is already unloaded, it won't go on safe anyway. It is not necessary. Have the instructors clarify and on your handling test do exactly as you were tought, they can't argue that.

Question 2. If you are on the range, or field for that matter, do a proper unload again, if not, carry out the IA for an obstruction. If the round does not eject, then there must be a mechanical problem. In that situation, call your Range Coach over.

Now to summerize. This is a common misconception. If you do not understand, ask questions!!!! It is the duty of an instructor to make you understand. Wether it be the intructor's fault for instructing improperly, the nervousness of the candidate or that the candidate just doesn't understand. Weapons drills are crucial! If you misunderstand one thing, ASK! You can't get docked or won't be made fun off because you are confused about how to properly unload a piece of equipment designed to kill! Good on you for recongnizing your problem. So with what I mentioned about, I would still suggest you go to your instructors and ask for clarification. 

As a side note, normally there is a full review period before the handling test, to work out the bugs and nervousness. Good luck, and again, good on you for speaking up, just try it on course to.


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## Reccesoldier (19 Jan 2005)

Sharpie is absolutely correct for both points. BTW if you have a round in the chamber after you have cleared your weapon and you do fire the action it is considered a Negligent discharge.

A faulty extractor and a very dark night (couldn't see inside the chamber) cost me $750.00 in Kosovo.  :rage: :crybaby:


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## chrisf (19 Jan 2005)

How a C7 works... I'm fairly confident that this taught as part of a class on BMQ, and if you haven't learned it yet, you will, but I'm typing this as exercise for my brain... 

It's gas-operated (Meaning the exhaust gasses from the burning propellent push the bolt backwards)   and it fires from a closed bolt (Meaning the bolt is always foreward except when held to the rear by cocking)...

When you **** [Edit: I forgot that the censor won't let us say the word cock... somone has an aversion to cock fighting I suppose] the rifle, the bolt unlocks, and the cocking handle pulls the bolt carrier and all it's related parts to the rear. The hammer is pulled backwards with the bolt carrier at this time, is locks in place.

When you release the cocking handle, the buffer/buffer spring drives the bolt carrier foreward. The bolt picks up a round from the magazine, and the round is carried foreward into the chamber, where the bolt locks behind the round.

When you squeeze the trigger, the hammer goes foreward, striking the rear of the firing pin, which in turn strikes the rear of the primer on the round... igniting the powder inside the case of the round, driving the bullet itself through the barrel.

If you remove the handgaurds of your C7, you'll see the gas tube, it's a little tube that runs above the length of the barrel. Near the muzzle of the barrel, there's a small hole inside which taps some of the gas driving the bullet foreward. This gas travels through the gas tube, and strikes the gas key on top of the bolt carrier. With the extractor holding the fired round, the bolt unlocks, and the bolt carrier is driven backwards, ejecting the round on the way.


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## ab00013 (19 Jan 2005)

Thanks guys I really appreciate it. This weekend when I go in, I'll ask one of the MCpls for help. It just seems like they are speeding through everything really quick and I've never touched a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, before in my life so it's all new. I don't know if I'm the only one who doesn't seem to catch it all or if nobody else is going to ask. The only thing is that I'm the only female (with 23 guys) in the course so I surely don't want to be the only one who's asking for help. But I guess with the weapons handling test coming up, I have no choice but to ask if I don't understand.   :-[ 

Anyways, thanks Sharpie for answering my questions and I think they will probably go over some of that because we haven't done IA yet. And thanks Just a Sig Op for that awesome explanation!


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## HollywoodHitman (19 Jan 2005)

Where are you doing your course?


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## ab00013 (19 Jan 2005)

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> Where are you doing your course?



Weekend BMQ Course in St. John's, Newfoundland.


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## chrisf (20 Jan 2005)

Best of luck with it.


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## Sharpey (20 Jan 2005)

Don't erver be ashamed to ask question. So what if you are the pnly female either. If you don't ask questions, you may never know the answer right? A note on the speed the Instructors are teaching...I am looking at my BMQ schedule now, starting instructing this weekend on it. As I found out last year as well, as short as the course is now, there is alot of information to cram into the Candidate's heads. DND says classes will not be longer than 40 mins. So take advantage of the review periods and maybe ask for extra help at night from the course or staff.

Curious though: St. John's being my hometown...what Regiment?


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## Greasyoldman (20 Jan 2005)

To answer your second question more completely, you'll learn about the operation of the C7 in lesson # 8: Mechanism, Immediate Action and Possible Stoppages. Ideally when this lesson is taught your instructors will use a C7 Cut-Away (basically a C7 cut in half lengthways to give you a better idea of what happens internally when you pull the trigger). To give you an idea of where you stand, Load, Ready, Unload is lesson #3.

Ty


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## ab00013 (20 Jan 2005)

Sharpie said:
			
		

> Don't erver be ashamed to ask question. So what if you are the pnly female either. If you don't ask questions, you may never know the answer right? A note on the speed the Instructors are teaching...I am looking at my BMQ schedule now, starting instructing this weekend on it. As I found out last year as well, as short as the course is now, there is alot of information to cram into the Candidate's heads. DND says classes will not be longer than 40 mins. So take advantage of the review periods and maybe ask for extra help at night from the course or staff.



Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement. I'll probably go ask the staff at night to go over all of the weapons stuff. In my opinion, the schedule seems a little ridiculous â â€œ we cram classes all day, don't even do PT(and told we won't ever), no marches as of yet, only marching practice is like 2 minutes to march to the kitchen, and we had to go in for 4 days during the Christmas holidays (Dec. 27 â â€œ 30). All so that we can finish by the end of the fiscal year, March 31st. But every Saturday night we finish around 6:00, just to watch movies, play cards, order pizza, etc. What's up with that? Time to get to know each other or to relax our brain?

Anyways, I'll take your advice and make better use of that time. I have about 4 â â€œ 5 hours Saturday night to go over everything. Thanks again!



			
				Sharpie said:
			
		

> Curious though: St. John's being my hometown...what Regiment?



Royal Newfoundland Regiment (1st battalion)




			
				Greasyoldman said:
			
		

> To answer your second question more completely, you'll learn about the operation of the C7 in lesson # 8: Mechanism, Immediate Action and Possible Stoppages. Ideally when this lesson is taught your instructors will use a C7 Cut-Away (basically a C7 cut in half lengthways to give you a better idea of what happens internally when you pull the trigger). To give you an idea of where you stand, Load, Ready, Unload is lesson #3.



Thanks greasyoldman. I'm sure when we get to that point it will give me a better understanding of how the C7 works and what I am actually doing when I pull the trigger, etc.


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## Sharpey (20 Jan 2005)

There are also some short films on the operation of the C7 and all other weapons. They are just about as good as the C7 cut-away. Hopefully they will take the 10 mins or so from the class to show you that.

Fill us in on how you do!

PS: Same Regiment as my Father...back in the 70's


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## Munner (20 Jan 2005)

I'm also on BMQ right now but we don't finish at 6 :00 to watch movies. We are up at 5:30am and are busy until usually midnight. We don't have time for PT either...it's used only as punishment. We spend a lot of time in the classroom and a lot of time on the parade square practicing drill.

We were told to write things down that we liked about the course, and what we didn't like about the course so that it can be handed in at the end. Perhaps that is somethign that you could bring up with the "higher ups" if they ask for such a thing. 

Good luck with the rest of your course and don't be afraid to ask questions!


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## Sharpey (20 Jan 2005)

Staff and Candidate course critiques are manditory from Standards and should happen on all courses.


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## tomas (22 Jan 2005)

you cock the cocking handle, which pulls back the bolt carrier group, it hits the buffer spring and buffer and then when you release it slides forward catching a round from the magazing, the bolt face caputures the round and seats it in the chamber, the bolt carrier group locks into the chamber with the teeth on the bolt. then when you pull the trigger the hammer moves up striking the firing pin which hits the primer on the bullet exploding it then the gun powder. 

the powder creates pressure and gas, the gas and pressure pushes the bullet forward at the same time as slamming the bolt carrier group back, the bolt carrier passes the ejection port, and the ejector tosses the spent casing out, bounces of the deflector, and is gone , the bolt carrier bounces off of the buffer and mvoes back into a reload position as mentioned before.

the bullet on the other hand travels through the bore, along the rifling, twisting as it goes to build stability,.
as it passes the forward sight there is a gas tube, the gas tube collects some of the spent gas, traveling it back the length of the rifle,, and into the bolt key, the bolt key is on top of the bolt carrier  group, it is what pushes the bolt carrier group back in the rifle back against the buffer spring, and yadda yadda. every time you pull the trigger it fires a round..
thats on rapid fire. the reason it stops is there is a small pin that catches the hammer when it gets recocked by the backwards travel of the bolt carrier.


on auto the pin doesnt catch, and it continues to move smoothly as long as you hold the trigger down


hope that makes sense


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## s23256 (22 Jan 2005)

Actually the hammer is held back on auto as well.  It is held on the automatic sear which is tripped by the bolt carrier as it moves forward.  If this did not happen the hammer would  simply slide back into place behind the firing pin as the bolt carrier moved forward and might not impart sufficient force to trigger the primer.  The automatic sear is engaged any time the trigger is pulled, this is why when you release the trigger after firing on repetition there is an audible click as the hammer is released by the automatic sear and is caught by the primary sear.


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## 1feral1 (22 Jan 2005)

Tomas said:
			
		

> the bolt carrier bounces off of the buffer and mvoes back into a reload position as mentioned before.
> 
> as it passes the forward sight there is a gas tube, the gas tube collects some of the spent gasand yadda yadda
> thats on rapid fire. the reason it stops is there is a small pin that catches the hammer when it gets recocked by the backwards travel of the bolt carrier.
> ...



Pins? 

Yadda, yadda, yadda?

Carriers bouncing? 

Forward sights? 

Collecting gas tubes? 

On rapid fire? 


Mate, I like anyone appreciate your keeness in trying to help out here, and I am not implying you are an idiot,   but please leave the 'techo talk' to those who know what they are talking about. 

The information in your post does nothing but confuse people including me, and I have 'in the know of the M16 FOW' since the late 1970s, and rebuilding hundreds and hundreds of these rifles over the past 10 yrs alone. 

I don't know where you got your info from but its WRONG! 

Cheers,

Wes


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## Sappo (24 Jan 2005)

not to get off topic here or anything, but to the guys that posted about relaxed BMQ.


Wow.

I get there between 20:30 and 22:00 on fridays, depending on how long our driver takes.

Once there we do drill, kit inspection etc etc, until lights out around 23:00.

05:00 we are yelled awake and have 5 minutes to dress for PT and clear everything up, then we have 1 hour of PT.

After that we take from 06:00 approx till 07:40 I believe to wash, shave, clean everything up, pack up all kit, dress properly, and have breakfast, with morning inspection before breakfast.

After that we have 40 minute periods of classroom lecture, drill, etc.

Lunch at 12:00, till 12:40. 

Then resume with more classroom lecture, drill, etc etc etc till dinner at 17:00.

Continue on until approx 23:00.. lights out, rinse repeat.


We have had a good BMQ so far, we have been yelled at, moved very FAST when told to do anything... and cannot take a relaxed attitude to the course like it sounds other people have.

Some of the other candidates screwed up on Saturday, they were not saluting officers, not marching, not following orders properly etc.... they came down on us HARD on sat night. I do mean hard.

We had to change into PT gear from out combats, in 5 minutes... we weren't fast enough.... much more yelling while we changed back into combats.... more yelling back into PT.... then we had rifle PT (hold rifle above your head, hold it with left arm 90 degrees, right arm etc etc etc... squats with the rifle. In short I was driven hard, I dunno about everyone else. That is the lesson we learn, if you screw up you will pay for it. 

I am kind of dissapointed for these guys with no PT, and slacking off at 18:00 everynight. I feel you are missing out on training and discipline you should be getting.

I have had a great time so far, they have pushed us but not so far I was thinking of dropping out.... the only time I felt like this was a bad idea was Sat night... when they smacked us with the hand of god (as our Lt. put it).


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## Glorified Ape (27 Jan 2005)

My apologies - misposted.


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