# HMCS Toronto



## Wils21 (10 Jul 2005)

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(CCNMatthews - July 5, 2005) - The Commanding Officer 
and ship's company of Her Majesty's Canadian Ship TORONTO are pleased to 
announce that the ship will be visiting the City of Toronto from July 
9th to 14th.

This will be its first visit to Toronto since 2000 and the first since 
returning from the Arabian Sea as part of Canada's contribution to the 
war on terrorism.

The ship will be open for visitors July 9th from 2pm - 4 pm, July 10th & 
11th from 1pm - 3pm and on July 12th from 10am - 3 pm. The ship will be 
berthed at Pier 283/291 Queen Elizabeth Docks, 255 Queen's Quay East, at 
the foot of Sherbourne Street. People visiting the ship are asked to 
bring photo ID and please leave personal kit bags ashore.

The ship, under the command of Commander Stuart Moors, will be stopping 
at several other cities after Toronto and conduct training exercises 
while in the Great Lakes.


----------



## Navalsnpr (10 Jul 2005)

Obviously last months fire which the media pounced on wasn't as big as the media made it out to be....


----------



## Wils21 (11 Jul 2005)

She seemed pretty sea worthy to me.  No trace of fire at all.  If anybody has a chance check it out.


----------



## Allen (11 Jul 2005)

I toured the ship this afternoon and was very impressed. The crew was very friendly and eager to answer questions. The vessel itself was shipshape as far as I could tell. I was surprised that many members of the public showed up, since the ship was moored in a less than ideal location...hidden behind a golf dome in the ugly port area...yuck!

At least half a dozen city cops and MP's were conspicuous outside the ship, and on board some crew members stood guard with sidearms. Also, some type of protective floating boom encircled the ship. I wonder if this is standard for a port visit, or was DND spooked by the recent events in London?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (11 Jul 2005)

I wonder if the protective boom you are referring to is the anti pollution barrier we put down in case we have a spillage or leakage?


----------



## Vigilant (11 Jul 2005)

Maybe since the USS Cole incident? Is it far enough to prevent that kind of thing? Or maybe it is an anti-spillage device.

I'd like to visit the ship tomorrow.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (11 Jul 2005)

not knowing what it looks like I can't say either way.


----------



## Allen (11 Jul 2005)

> I wonder if the protective boom you are referring to is the anti pollution barrier we put down in case we have a spillage or leakage?



That's very possible. I'm not knowledgeable about these things & didn't see it from close quarters. It was yellow, that's all I can tell you.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (11 Jul 2005)

From the National Post:

Warship pledges to keep cannons silent: 1817 treaty requirement: HMCS Toronto alerts U.S. before Great Lakes cruise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before the Canadian warship HMCS Toronto was allowed to sail into her namesake city today, it had to promise the United States that it would not try to rekindle the War of 1812. 

That is because under the terms of the 188-year-old Rush-Bagot Agreement, negotiated at the end of the war to limit naval forces on the Great Lakes, the Canadian navy frigate constitutes a floating diplomatic incident. 

"I don't have to account for how many cannon balls I have on board," Commander Stu Moors, captain of the Toronto, said with a laugh. "But I did have to tell them how many Harpoons [anti-ship missiles] I have." 

The Canadian Embassy in Washington had to deliver a formal diplomatic note to the U.S. State Department well in advance of HMCS Toronto's arrival, the start of a month-long tour of Canadian and American cities along the Great Lakes, advising the United States that Canada was about to violate the 19th century treaty, which has never been abrogated or repealed since it was signed in 1817. 

"We don't actually come out and say we're not going to use [the Toronto] to invade," said Rodney Moore, a spokesman for Foreign Affairs Canada. "But that's basically the gist of it. 

"It's just a formality, to advise them that the visit of HMCS Toronto is for ceremonial, not military, purposes." 

The Rush-Bagot agreement was negotiated after three years of fighting between the British and the Americans and a naval arms race to build the largest fleet on the Great Lakes. 

To end the destabilizing -- and expensive -- shipbuilding race, British diplomat Charles Bagot and American Richard Rush negotiated what may be the longest-standing arms limitation deal: Each nation was limited to only one warship on Lake Ontario; two on the other Great Lakes; and one more in Lake Champlain. 

Under the treaty, each country's ship is limited to "one hundred Tons burthen and armed with one eighteen-pound cannon." 

"His Royal Highness agrees that all other armed vessels on these Lakes shall be forthwith dismantled, and that no other vessels of war shall be there built or armed," according to the wording of the treaty. 

Mr. Moore said Canada took over responsibility for the treaty in 1867, when it ceased to be a British colony and has monitored its enforcement ever since. 

"It's come up a few times over the last 100 years or so," he said. "It's a formality really, but it's an important formality." 

He said the fact that both nations are still observing a treaty 188 years after it was written is a testament to the strong bonds between Canada and the United States. 

"It's a testament to the length and stability of relations between Canada and the United States," Mr. Moore said. "I can't think of another treaty or diplomatic agreement that has been in effect for so long and that remains in effect almost 200 years after it was written." 

The Toronto, a 134-metre-long patrol frigate, displaces 4,770 tonnes -- more than 47 times the limit set by the treaty. 

However, her 57-mm Bofors deck gun is at least technically legal: In the 19th century, ships guns were rated by the weight of the iron cannon balls they fired. 

The shells the Toronto fires weigh only 6.1 kg, or just over 13 pounds, below the 18-pound limit. 

However the Canadian warship certainly violates the spirit of the agreement -- Toronto can fire 220 shells per minute at a range of up to 17 kilmetres. Most muzzle-loading cannons would be lucky to fire one round a minute and could not reach much further than one kilometre. 

In addition, the patrol frigate boasts batteries of missiles, .50-calibre machine-guns and torpedoes: all weapons that were not invented until long after the treaty was signed. 

But Cmdr. Moors insisted that his cruise through the Great Lakes will be peaceful, including stops in Chicago and Cleveland, where the Toronto will visit U.S. Navy and Coast Guard bases. 

The frigate will be arriving this afternoon at Queen's Quay and will be docked on the Toronto waterfront all week.


----------



## Navalsnpr (11 Jul 2005)

The boom you speak of would be a pollution control boom.


----------



## Cloud Cover (12 Jul 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> In addition, the patrol frigate boasts batteries of missiles, .50-calibre machine-guns and torpedoes: all weapons that were not invented until long after the treaty was signed.



Although there may be "plans a' hatchin'"  to go back to the weapons fit of old ... 

I bet an old 18lb carronade would have punched many a hole into any of the IRE's just before they paid off!!


----------



## Vigilant (12 Jul 2005)

Yeah, I asked a LS and he said it was a pollution control boom.

Sure was a lot of seaweed and gunk trapped by it.


----------



## Vigilant (12 Jul 2005)

It was interesting visiting the ship, since I've never been aboard a Halifax class frigate before. The Harpoon tubes were cool, and so was the BOFORS gun. Too bad we couldn't tour the interior. The LS on the bridge was inundated with all sorts of weird questions, and one civvy commented on the leaking AC which was dripping water.

Saw a lot of CFRC guys around, and they gave out a lot of stickers, posters, and Navy pencils. Lots of kids and parents, which is good I guess.

Heard one kid saying he wanted to join the Navy when he grew up. :


----------



## Marty (12 Jul 2005)

Just wondering if anyone out there knows when  or if any ships will be open to the public for a visit in Halifax?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (12 Jul 2005)

The only way you get to tour a ship in Halifax these days is when they are tied up downtown....going to the front gate and asking to be let in to look around doesn't happen, Its a closed facility and you have to have an escort.


----------



## PPCLI Guy (12 Jul 2005)

I toured her today.  A big BZ to the crew for a very professional job of hosting the unwashed.


----------



## Neill McKay (14 Jul 2005)

Marty said:
			
		

> Just wondering if anyone out there knows when   or if any ships will be open to the public for a visit in Halifax?



A phone call to the Public Affairs office might yield some useful information: (902) 427-0550 Ext 6981


----------



## Gunner98 (15 Jul 2005)

Virtual tour @ http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/mspa_fleet/hfx_tour_int_e.asp

HMCS Halifax web site @  http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/halifax/home/index_e.asp

All HMCS City ship web pages @ http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/mspa_fleet/hfx_websites_e.asp


----------



## CF-22 Raptor (25 Jul 2005)

I hear that the HCMS Toronto will be making an appearance in Hamilton on July 29th 2005. Does anybody know where it will be docked and when the tour hours are? The CF website didn't say. For those who have been on the tour, do they show you pretty much everything and explain how it works? Like engineering, the bridge and the missiles?


----------



## Vigilant (25 Jul 2005)

Nice name, too bad we aren't signed up for that program.



			
				CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> I hear that the HCMS Toronto will be making an appearance in Hamilton on July 29th 2005. Does anybody know where it will be docked and when the tour hours are? The CF website didn't say. For those who have been on the tour, do they show you pretty much everything and explain how it works? Like engineering, the bridge and the missiles?




The tour is self guided, with crew members along the way at key points to answer questions. The main areas of interest were the flight deck, the hanger, the Harpoon tubes, the bridge, and the BOFORS gun at the bow. This is how it was in Toronto at least.

There was a really good brochure explaining the ship's history and technical specs. Make sure you pick one up!

We didn't get to go below decks, so no engine room. They had a massive recruiting setup with CFRC, with lots of stuff being handed out. If you are interested in a Naval career and live nearby this is the place to see and be excited.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (25 Jul 2005)

I know in the past if we met up with locals the night before and we get along with them sometimes we invite them down for a private tour. SOme areas we can't take them to but they tend to get a view of the ship no one else gets.


----------



## Vigilant (25 Jul 2005)

"The ship will be arriving on the night of the 29th. It will be open to visitors on August 30th and 31st."

He didn't know the tour times and where it would be docked, but I'll post it when I find out. It'll most likely be on the local news, CH would mostly likely report on it towards the end of the week.


----------



## Neill McKay (27 Jul 2005)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> I hear that the HCMS Toronto will be making an appearance in Hamilton on July 29th 2005. Does anybody know where it will be docked and when the tour hours are?



This is nothing more than a guess, but if you don't have any better information by the 29th HMCS STAR at 650 Catherine St. North might be a good place to look.  HMCS HAIDA (a Second World War destroyer) is tied up there, so I gather there would be appropriate berth space for a frigate in the area.


----------



## BOSNwife (27 Jul 2005)

My husband is on HMCS Toronto & is on the Great Lakes trip. A simple Google search of "hmcs toronto" gives me where he will be & where. Because of the London attacks QHM line does not give out phone numbers so I have to wait for him to call home or there is email exchange between us. 
Here is the info.

http://www2.cdn-news.com/scripts/ccn-release.pl?/2005/07/21/0721030n.html

FOR:  NATIONAL DEFENCE

JULY 21, 2005 - 09:00 ET

Media Advisory: National Defence-HMCS Toronto to Visit 
Hamilton

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(CCNMatthews - July 21, 2005) - The Commanding Officer 
and ship's company of Her Majesty's Canadian Ship TORONTO are pleased to 
announce that the ship will be visiting the City of Hamilton from July 
29th to August 1st.

The ship will be open for visitors on July 30th and 31st from 10am - 3 
pm. The ship will be berthed at John Street next to HMCS HAIDA. People 
visiting the ship are asked to bring photo ID and please leave personal 
kit bags ashore.

The ship, under the command of Commander Stuart Moors, has been in the 
Great Lakes visiting both US and Canadian cities, since the July 7th. 
This will be the final visit and last opportunity for people to tour the 
ship before it sails back to its homeport of Halifax, NS.

For more information on the ship, go to:

http://www.navy.dnd.ca/toronto/home/index_e.asp

NOTE TO EDITORS: Media are invited to tour the ship in addition to the 
general public. There is a requirement for media to confirm their 
attendance with Navy Public Affairs at 902-830-3252 at least 2 days in 
advance. Media must be in possession of valid photo identification in 
order to gain access to the ship.

-30-

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT:
Navy Public Affairs
Lieutenant (N) Brian Owens
(902) 830-3252
Owens.BP@forces.gc.ca
www.navy.forces.gc.ca/marlant/
or
National Defence Public Affairs (Toronto)
LCdr Albert Wong
(416) 635-4406 ext 2759
Wong.AKS@forces.gc.ca


----------

