# Policy on Personal Combat Gear?



## ArmyBrat (2 Apr 2004)

I was simply curious,  what is the Army‘s policy on personal combat gear?

I know that with things such as gortex socks, boots, gloves, etc - we are free to get our own stuff.  Boots, for example,  lots of people seem to have non-issued combat boots they wear,  same with fingerless gloves, etc.

What about major combat gear though?  Vests, in particular?  I know that when deployed,  people get issued their tacvests,  but what about the majority of the rest of the time?  Am I able to buy a tactical vest, and maybe wear it instead of, or in conjunction with, the gay old webbing we still use?  (No offence to anybody who is gay, just saying...the old webbing is seriously starting to suck.)

  :akimbo:


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## AlphaCharlie (2 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by ArmyBrat:
> [qb]...the gay old webbing we still use?  (No offence to anybody who is gay, just saying...the old webbing is seriously starting to suck.)
> 
> [/qb]


And how would you, mr civilian, know how good our webgear is?

I know that a lot of the MCpls and my Sgt on my bmq course would take the currint webgear over the "looks nice but is shyte" tacvests we have now..... they may look pretty but my Sgt says they‘re quite a bother to acctually use efficiantly.


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## Spr.Earl (2 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by ArmyBrat:
> [qb] I was simply curious,  what is the Army‘s policy on personal combat gear?
> 
> I know that with things such as gortex socks, boots, gloves, etc - we are free to get our own stuff.  Boots, for example,  lots of people seem to have non-issued combat boots they wear,  same with fingerless gloves, etc.
> ...


Only issue kit is allowed!


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## Ranger (2 Apr 2004)

How would a civilian know jsut exactly how good any gear is? I mean how woudl he know how efficient it is unless he‘s been out in the bush needing to use it. It‘s not for looks you know!


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## Jarnhamar (2 Apr 2004)

Well i would guess that a. he‘s either used webbing before or has friends that have or b. he‘s read what people on the forum have said about it. Whats the big deal?

After using the tacvest i wanna burry my webbing in the yard and never see it again.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Apr 2004)

I just spent six months wearing the vest every day. While it has some problems, I much prefer it over any webbing system I‘ve worn in the CF. Just my .002.


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## Jarnhamar (2 Apr 2004)

What?
Were talking about civilian vice military in real life. Not number of posts on a message forum.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Apr 2004)

"Pot, this is kettle, over"
And while cadets do have some questionable, quasi military training, I would hardly count it as experience. Likewise a couple of weeks BMQ, so let‘s not get to carried away slagging someone‘s qualifications to ask a question or post an opinion.


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## gate_guard (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by AlphaCharlie:
> [qb]And how would you, mr civilian, know how good our webgear is?
> 
> I know that a lot of the MCpls and my Sgt on my bmq course would take the currint webgear over the "looks nice but is shyte" tacvests we have now..... they may look pretty but my Sgt says they‘re quite a bother to acctually use efficiantly. [/qb]


And how would you, mr 1 weekend of bmq armoured recruit who will probably put on his webbing once a year (no offence to the true armoured troopers), know how good our webgear is? Don‘t slag someone 1) whose experience you don‘t know, and 2)who you possibly have a minute more experience than. His post was neither inflammatory nor did it deserve the sarcastic response you gave. I, for one, tend to base my opinions on my OWN experience rather than steal the opinions of a few master corporals and a sergeant. "My sergeant says...."


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## ArmyBrat (3 Apr 2004)

I haven‘t always been a civilian,  just didn‘t pick up on the "classifications" as I was registering.  Was with the Calgary Highlanders for 3yrs,  then had to get out because I had a pipe go through my left leg in civvie-life.


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## Armymedic (3 Apr 2004)

ArmyBrat,
If yyou spent three yrs in then you should already know the answer:

Authorized issued kit, and only issued kit is allowed, particularly where rucksacks. TV‘s, and outerwear is concerned. But common sence dictates as well. Under your cbts, wear whatever you choose as long as a green undershirt of some type is showing. Gloves must be black in Garrison, but green and brown will also suffice in the field. Boots, if they are black (Green issued JBs, or desert boots as well) and look similar to cbt boots, you may wear them if you have a medical reason, and/or you Sargent Major (or any NCO) doesn‘t mind.


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## Spr.Earl (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by recceguy:
> [qb] I just spent six months wearing the vest every day. While it has some problems, I much prefer it over any webbing system I‘ve worn in the CF. Just my .002.     [/qb]


Yes it‘s good but the Velcro ends you must taped as I found they ripped the shite out of my wrists in the first couple of days and that‘s with a full load in all pockets.


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## Da_man (3 Apr 2004)

can you wear these?   http://www.wheelersonline.com/


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## Cpl. Williamson (3 Apr 2004)

Depends On if your Sergeant Major And / Or CO Allows It Because Overall its There Choice 

Whether Or Not "Gucci" Kit Is Allowed


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## D-n-A (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Da_man:
> [qb] can you wear these?    http://www.wheelersonline.com/  [/qb]


what item on the website are you referring to?


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## Da_man (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by D-n-A:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


If i dont like one of the items issued, can i, for example, use a different goggle cover?


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## AlphaCharlie (4 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by gate_guard:
> [qb]And how would you, mr 1 weekend of bmq armoured recruit who will probably put on his webbing once a year (no offence to the true armoured troopers), know how good our webgear is? Don‘t slag someone 1) whose experience you don‘t know, and 2)who you possibly have a minute more experience than. His post was neither inflammatory nor did it deserve the sarcastic response you gave. I, for one, tend to base my opinions on my OWN experience rather than steal the opinions of a few master corporals and a sergeant. "My sergeant says...."         [/qb]


Ok look. First of all, I‘m not armoured. yes, I had the armoured avatar, but that was because I was on my way out and I‘m still not super familiar with all the symbols.

Second, i‘m Infantry, and third, i‘ve already worn my web gear a LOT.

You can now call me a tard for getting the wrong avatar.


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## Jason Bourne (4 Apr 2004)

you are a tard! jk    Anyway, whats the deal with knives, hatchats and whatnot. My friend who is with the 3PPCLI here in Edmonton just got a hatchat and somehow he seems to think he‘s going to be allowed to carry that around with him while on ex.‘s and whatnot. True, false..?


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## AlphaCharlie (4 Apr 2004)

Speaking from a BMQ point of view, no a hatchet would not be allowed.

If you have a leatherman or gerber type knife that‘s fine...


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## Jason Bourne (4 Apr 2004)

Hrmm...sounds good


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## ArmyBrat (5 Apr 2004)

I was with the Calgary Highlanders for 3 years, and got out in 96‘ because of my injured leg.  However,  I am looking to get back in - however, it is uncertain whether or not I will have to do the BMQ series of courses, because I was already QL5 qualified when I was in.  I may start training at the unit level come June though.

I ask this question, because from when I was in - until now,  things seem to have changed quite a bit.  I know this isn‘t necessarily the case in Canada, but I have read stories from soldiers in Iraq who have had their wives or girlfriends go by them good LBVs, and ship them over to them.  Also,  from talking to some old army buddies from when I was in,  they‘ve mentioned they have bought all sorts of knives and kit that they wear/bring with them on ex. and deployment, that wasn‘t issued to them.

A few examples are black combat boots, non-issued.  Usually for cold weather or wet environments,  they‘ll buy high civilian boots, and nobody says anything about them because they look like regular issue.  Fingerless gloves.  Additional pouches/packs for their webgear.  Load Bearing Vests.  Balaclavas.  Googles.  Small/Light Ghillie suites put on throughout/overtop of their webbing. etc, etc.


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## Infanteer (5 Apr 2004)

Alpha-Charlie, quit yapping about your BMQ time, it means nothing in the whole scheme of things.  Try getting at least 1 hook before you start bragging.


Da man:  Why you would waste money at Wheelers (which is over-priced to begin with) for CADPAT google covers is beyond me.  If you want to set yourself up for mockery, go ahead.

ArmyBrat:

Gucci kit (especially the big things) varies from unit to unit.  If you poke around the threads on this board, there is a really good post pertaining to 3 PPCLI‘s kit in operations in Afghanistan.  They were allowed to wear pretty much whatever they wanted in terms of Load Bearing Equipment, as long as it looked Canadian.  Some units are a little more anal-retentive, and small things like boots and stuff are for exercise only.  Take the time to get a feel for the unit before making a $1,000 order from Lightfighter.com.

My personal opinion.  Every soldier is going to have his or her personal preference on kit.  I don‘t understand the reason for Sergeant‘s Major going totally anal over silly things like an extra pouch on the webbing.  I have played around with the issue webbing (Which I prefer a million times to the crap-half-jacket thing) and modified it enough to get something I like.  Its green and its webbing, so whats the harm.

I would say on longer term stuff like overseas ops, if your going to bring some gucci item, try and bring the corresponding CF gear.  For example, I never wear my gortex jacket, but I brought overseas for times when it was required on parade, and the fact that the CQ wouldn‘t one-for-one exchange a piece of gucci kit that went south.

On the other hand, it is important to keep things within reason.  We had one unit (won‘t name names) show up to an ex wearing everything; black balaclavas, headbands, Woodland Pattern vests and odd coloured chest rigs.  The Platoon commander was even wearing black gaitors, despite the fact that it was rainless and sunny the entire weekend.  Needless to say these guys looked like a pack of wankers, and from what I could tell, their performance in the field wasn‘t much better.  There is something to be said about an overall impression of uniformity.


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## rrr965 (5 Apr 2004)

Army Brat Before you start asking questions out of left feild you should think about what your asking. Your question ranks up there with that guy who asked if he could buy his own assult rifle for military purposes. The CF is not a bunch of morons even though some of the kit you are issued is sketchy from time to time it does serve a purpose. I‘m assuming you had some sort of head trauma after you left the army because any CF member with the most minescule amount of knowledge knows that only issued kit is allowed with minor exceptions. So you should use your head before you show up for your next ex looking like someone from a Tom Clancy game!


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## Infanteer (5 Apr 2004)

What is with all the s***-talking FNG‘s lately?

Rocky-Infanteer, you obviously didn‘t read my post did you.  Since your too busy talking smack and not looking where I told you to, I‘ve gone out of my way to find the post I was referring to.



> *"Since 3 PPCLI became a light infantry battalion in 1997, we have afforded our soldiers considerable latitude in their selection of personal clothing and equipment. Although the degree to which this is permitted varies slightly as COs and RSMs come and go, the latitude that 3 PPCLI soldiers can exercise in selecting their own gear is far greater than that encountered in any mechanized battalion. Indeed, I suspect that this degree of freedom is unheralded in the post-Korea Canadian Army. More's the pity, because in situations where what you are wearing or carrying on your back is all that you have, it is nice to have the kit that happens to work best for you.
> 
> This freedom to choose personal kit within 3 PPCLI long pre-dated our deployment to Afghanistan. However, I will be the first to admit that it reached new heights once we got the word for our mission. After all, if you're going to war you might as well go prepared, right? Once the mission was confirmed, there was a flurry of orders placed to many of the better known after-market gear providers within Canada and the U.S. Those who had been hesitant to spend money on custom gear before, were understandably willing to â Å“drop some coinâ ? in preparation for deliberate, real-world combat operations.
> 
> ...


This quote is from a combat proven officer who posts around here and on other boards once in a while.  

Read carefully.  I am sure the 3 PPCLI battlegroup appreciates your bogus information.  Like I said before, personal kit has a time and place.  I consider myself a CF member with "the most minescule amount of knowledge" and I use gucci kit all the time.

Let this serve as a warning:  If your a snot-nosed FNG, quit trying to talk smack on these boards.  Unless you‘ve walked the walk, we don‘t really want to hear about it.

PS: Change your name, your making me look bad.


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## Jason Bourne (5 Apr 2004)

All the ranting aside thats a good article Infanteer I‘m going to keep that for future reference down the road.


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## Jarnhamar (5 Apr 2004)

If you just started highschool and you‘ve been to a total of 4 classes you wouldn‘t be in a position to tell someone who‘s going to start highschool what it‘s like, would you?

Now if you were a senior at that highschool and you saw this kid with 4 classes under his belt dishing out advice wouldn‘t you think it‘s silly?

Now if you were a senior at this school, saw this kid giving people advice (which was wrong more than half the time) took him aside and said "hey kid your heart is in the right place but your doing more harm then good because half the stuff your passing on is wrong and the other stuff is just rumors (ie the no more carl G thread) and the kid said ya ok your right then turned around and continued to pass on rumors ignoring you (whos put a few years in that school) you might get a little pissed off right?

DONT BE THAT GUY


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## AlphaCharlie (5 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Infanteer:
> [qb] Alpha-Charlie, quit yapping about your BMQ time, it means nothing in the whole scheme of things.  Try getting at least 1 hook before you start bragging.
> 
> [/qb]


Bragging? What the fark? I‘m simply stating what I know. I don‘t go around saying things about stuff I havn‘t learned, now do I? (the CarlG thread... I thought I saw 2000m somewhere else but I was mistaken, shyte happens)....


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## Pikache (5 Apr 2004)

It means there are other people on board who are better qualified to answer the question instead of you, a no hook private recruit with very limited experience.

Unless you know something that you‘re sure the others don‘t know, keep your trap shut.


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## ArmyBrat (5 Apr 2004)

All of this ranting and oversold bulls**t really isn‘t helping.  Instead of talking about the issues,  95% of what you say is nothing but ranting on about some s**t I didn‘t even write.  ****.

My question has nothing to do with "buying my own assault rifle" or anything like that,  read the post before you jump down my throat infanteer.  Was simply curious if things today are different than they were about 10yrs ago, when I was in - in regards to buying your own personal combat gear such as better wet weather boots, goggles, etc.  That article about the guys in Iraq getting their wives to send them good LBVs just sparked my curiosity as to whether or not soldiers THESE DAYS can buy some of their own combat equipment, if they want.  (With certain regulations, obviously).


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## BDTyre (6 Apr 2004)

Although I‘ve not had any experience in the military yet, I personally like the look of webbing versus the best.  I‘ve worn webbing before (paintball) and have never had a problem with comfort or use.

I know my opinion doesn‘t count for much, but there it is.


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## 1feral1 (6 Apr 2004)

For webbing I use the South African M83 ptrn in AUSCAM cordura, with fastex, velcro, and press studs. really comfortable, and nice to wear. durable, and of good quality.

Holds 10 F88/M4 30rd mags, two large kidney pouches for gortex, and pers kit, plus a map pouch, and a few others for mag lite torch, etc. Also a 3 litre Camelbak hydration pack too. More room for F1 frags, and M203 40mm rds also.

Bayonet is M9 Aust contract, and my CF 82 ptrn KFS holder.

The other non-issue kit are my boots, the US desert boots with Panama sole, just likemthe CF issue ones.

As for a hard time, not really, as its fd, and webbing and footwear are a personal thing. Going on 10yrs in, and 3 units later, not a wisper or a whinge from anyone!

BTW... 110% tax deductable too!

Cheers,

Wes


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## Gayson (7 Apr 2004)

I know for BMQ you can only use issued kit, however a hydration pack looks very useful for my SQ and MOC courses this summer, that and stalwart Guardian.

I have seen 1 guy on a leadership course wearing that CADPAT hydration pack from wheelers, some staff on my course have been wearing black / olive drab camel packs.


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## AlphaCharlie (7 Apr 2004)

How would you use a camelbak with your ruck? do you take the bladder out and put it in the ruck itself?


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## D-n-A (7 Apr 2004)

put the bladder into the radio pouch inside the ruck, or on the top pouch


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## devil39 (7 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by D-n-A:
> [qb] put the bladder into the radio pouch inside the ruck, or on the top pouch [/qb]


I would disagree with separating the bladder from the remainder of the assembly having carried one for the last 7 years.  For what the camelback weighs, keep it intact and strap it to your ruck, or inside your daypack/IPE bag as a complete unit.  When you drop your ruck, you may still want to use your camelback, and it becomes problematic without the remainder of the assembly.  There are countless ways to strap it to your ruck.  It is very easily worn as a complete unit, with either the webbing or the tac vest.

Undoubtedly, a camelback is worth every penny that you spend on one (as an infantryman) if it comes to that and you do not have one issued.


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## D-n-A (7 Apr 2004)

I have a camelbak, but I dont know of a good way to attach it to the outside of the ruck(with just the straps on the camelback itself), having it on the webbing isnt a problem for me, just cant wear it on the webbing, when your carrying the rucksack also


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## Canadian Patriot (7 Apr 2004)

There are those two cinch (sp?) strap loops on either side of the ruck above the small pockets. Tighten up the straps on the hydro pack and loop them through the straps...I just tried it with my mountain biking Hydrapack, and it worked pretty well. Quick question though...What are those loops for?


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## Redeye (7 Apr 2004)

The loops are for snowshoes, The Agony.


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## Canadian Patriot (7 Apr 2004)

Of course!....Thanks Redeye


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## devil39 (7 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by D-n-A:
> [qb] I have a camelbak, but I dont know of a good way to attach it to the outside of the ruck(with just the straps on the camelback itself), having it on the webbing isnt a problem for me, just cant wear it on the webbing, when your carrying the rucksack also [/qb]


Try looping some lightweight bungy cord around the top corners of the ruck, off of the main frame.  Use the bungy to hold down the camelback and to wrap the camel back straps around.

Alternatively, use the crappy fake carabiners from those sport drinks to hook the camel back to the tiny loops  on either side of the zipper on the top pouch of the 84(?) pattern ruck.

If all else fails stuff it (complete) in the top of the 84(?) pattern ruck and strap the top down good and tight.

64 pattern is simple.  Throw it under the valise straps and tighten.  Or as an alternative strap it around the valise, then it slips off and on without a problem.

There really are countless solutions to these and other kit dilemmas.  Most can be solved with gun tape, carabiners, fastex, para cord(or 550 cord) and bungy cord.  Experiment a little bit and find out what works for you.  Always take a look at other guys kit, as there is always someone out there with a better way of rigging things.


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## D-n-A (7 Apr 2004)

thanks devil39, I‘ll try that out later


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