# Israel (IDF) versus Gaza aid ships- updates



## CougarKing

> *Up to 16 people have been killed when Israeli naval commandos boarded aid ships bound for the Gaza Strip, meeting resistance from pro-Palestinian activists, Israel's Channel 10 television said.
> 
> The six-ship convoy carrying aid for Palestinians and led by a Turkish vessel with 600 people on board set sail for Gaza from international waters off Cyprus on Sunday in defiance of an Israeli-led blockade of the territory.*
> 
> There was no immediate comment from Israel, where public radio quoted an unnamed Arab journalist aboard a ship as saying the navy intercepted the activists and that shooting was heard.
> 
> Vice premier Silvan Shalom told Israel Radio that Israeli forces would issue a report soon.
> 
> 
> ABC news link


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## jollyjacktar

What a shit show this is going to turn into.


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## SeanNewman

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> What a crap show this is going to turn into.



As if BP's oil wasn't enough, Israel and North Korea being in two separate wars are going to make for an interesting summer.


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## ShortBus

Sure are exciting times we live in.


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## GAP

Break out the Blue Helmets.....Canada's next assignment is coming up!!!


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## bdave

GAP said:
			
		

> Break out the Blue Helmets.....Canada's next assignment is coming up!!!



I don't see how we'd be able to do anything.
Israel wouldn't want us there.


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## SeanNewman

bdave said:
			
		

> Israel wouldn't want us there.



Agreed in a neutral role.  However, (not that this would ever happen), if they could convince Canada to fight beside them in an alliance they'd be quite content, even if our AO was relatively small.

Of course the fall out for this would be a whole lot of Israel's enemies cursing a Jihad on us.


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## GAP

You guys are forgetting a return engagement in Korea, maybe with McCrystal doing an Inchon......history relives itself, and all that.... ;D


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## TimBit

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Agreed in a neutral role.  However, (not that this would ever happen), if they could convince Canada to fight beside them in an alliance they'd be quite content, even if our AO was relatively small.
> 
> Of course the fall out for this would be a whole lot of Israel's enemies cursing a Jihad on us.



Yep, great idea Petamocto, sounds like the kind of thing we want to be doing, in this case sends the Navy to kill people on _humanitarian_ convoys. I think the GoC would have more to fear from the electorate than from jihadis.


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## SeanNewman

TimBit said:
			
		

> Yep, great idea Petamocto...I think the GoC would have more to fear from the electorate than from jihadis.



Hi, it was a tongue-in-cheek post, sorry.  I'm saying Israel would love it if we took part, not us.


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## TimBit

Ah, I see  :blotto:


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## The Bread Guy

....from the IDF (includes YouTube video with a bit of the boarding raid):


> Early this morning (May 31) the Israel Navy intercepted the flotilla after passengers on board ignored Israeli warnings. IDF forces met with severe pre-planned violence from the demonstrators, including use of live fire and light weaponry.
> 
> Early this morning, IDF Naval Forces intercepted six ships attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israeli Navy that were issued prior to the event. The Israeli Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over to the Gaza Strip after undergoing security inspections.
> 
> During the boarding of the Marmara ship, demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. According to reports, two weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose.
> 
> As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces first employed riot dispersal means, followed by live fire.
> 
> According to initial reports, these events resulted in over ten deaths among the demonstrators and numerous injuries. In addition, five naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers were seriously wounded and the remainder sustained moderate injuries. All of the injured parties, Israelis and foreigners, are currently being evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel.
> 
> Reports from IDF forces at the scene indicate that some of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces.
> 
> The events are ongoing, and information will be updated as soon as possible. Israeli Naval commander, Vice Admiral Eliezer Marom is overseeing the events.
> 
> In the coming hours, the ships will be directed to the Ashdod port, while IDF naval forces perform security checks in order to identify the people on the ships and the cargo brought on board. The IDF Spokesman emphasizes that this event is currently unfolding and further details will be provided as soon as possible.
> 
> This IDF naval operation was carried out under orders from the political leadership to prevent the flotilla from reaching the Gaza Strip and breaching the maritime closure.
> 
> The boarding of ships in the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod Sea Port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided upon to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.
> 
> IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack them, as well as having their weapons stolen by protesters and used against them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.


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## tomahawk6

Once the protestors opened fire on the Israelis they were fair game.


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## The Bread Guy

Based on video of "aid workers" whaling away on IDF troops on the deck with chairs and metal rods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
it appears the Israelis had more than a right to defend themselves.  Yeah, give peace a chance, right?


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## bdave

edit: Added sources and factual evidence.



			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Based on video of "aid workers" whaling away on IDF troops on the deck with chairs and metal rods:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
> it appears the Israelis had more than a right to defend themselves.  Yeah, give peace a chance, right?



I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate.
Israel has a long history of 'over reacting' to threats.
It is no secret that their treatment of the Palestinian people is far from graceful, and at times borders on inhumane.
Over 20 000 Palestinian homes have been demolished due to Israel.*[1]*
Several thousand Palestinians have been killed due to Israel. *[1]**[2]**[3]**[4]*
Israel soldiers take pot shots, beat and humiliate Palestinians on a daily basis.
Notice I am saying 'Palestinian' and not 'Hamas'. 
This is well documented and you have literally dozens of videos on youtube showing this.*[5]**[6]**[7]*

The Gaza flotilla refused to comply with Israel for whatever reason. Perhaps Israel had no right to demand for the flotilla to turn back?
Israel then decided to board the ships, against the wishes of those on board, in international waters.*[8]*:
Last I checked, Israel doesn't own Gaza.*[9]*
So how are they justified in invading a flotilla in international waters of a group of aid workers going to a country they [Israelis] do not legally own?*[10]*
How would you react if you saw a commando boarding the ship you were on, fully armed and ready? At that point, I would think you'd have grounds for believing they are there to kick some ***. Would you try to defend yourself, or just let them take over?

This is akin to an intruder breaking into your peaceful, quiet house and once you fight back, you are reprimanded/sued for not complying.

Is there something I am missing or do not know?
While I am playing devil's advocate, I honestly do not see how Israel was justified in *any *way.


Sources:
*[1]*::http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html
*[2]*:http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article3416.shtml
*[3]*:http://www.mepc.org/resources/mrates.asp
*[4]*:http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/casualties.asp
*[5]*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ST5m9pREQ
*[6]*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU
*[7]*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
*[8]*:http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.protest/index.html?hpt=T2
*[9]*:http://books.google.com/books?id=DWhgIe3Hq98C&printsec=frontcover&dq=&ei=0NSUSZ2ANY6mNYju7KQJ&client=#v=onepage&q&f=false
*[10]*:http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/146E6838D505833F852560D600471E25


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## Fishbone Jones

OK folks. Rules for this discussion.

Keep it clean. Any inkling of racism will be met with the Warning System

Attack the facts not the person, ie: no _ad hominem _ attacks.

No trolling.

Comments must be factual and linked to source. Pay attention to this one.

If you really don't have anything to add to the conversation. Keep out of it.

Posts deemed inappropriate or out of line by the Staff will be deleted. No explanation.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Fishbone Jones

bdave,

Please go back and incorporate this rule (Comments must be factual and linked to source.) to the points in your original post.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Ex-Dragoon

I have boarded ships on various missions in my time with the Navy and I will say not all were happy to see us come across. but you can be damned well sure if I thought my life was in jeopardy or those of my team mates, there would be no question, lethal force would be used. 

 Bdave... Regarding this Gaza flotilla, yeah it sucks some died but when you have a country surrounded by enemies that want your destruction and your way of life wiped off the face of the planet. I think reasonable person in the same situation would react the same way. These instigators peaceful protesters knew what they were getting into, they knew israel would not react well. I believe the old saying is "you reap what you sow".

  At the end of the day though, we were not there. We did not experience what both the IDF and the quasi terrorists peaceful protestors experienced so opinions may change as facts come out.


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## PanaEng

bdave said:
			
		

> I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate.


that's good


			
				bdave said:
			
		

> Israel has a long history of 'over reacting' to threats.


Maybe that's one of the reasons they are still a country


			
				bdave said:
			
		

> How would you react if you saw a commando boarding the ship you were on, fully armed and ready? At that point, I would think you'd have grounds for believing they are there to kick some ***. Would you try to defend yourself, or just let them take over?
> 
> This is akin to an intruder breaking into your peaceful, quiet house and once you fight back, you are reprimanded/sued for not complying.


Maybe it's just me - I'm a lover after all (although, I fight when I have to  ;D ) - but if I see a bunch of goons storming through my front and side doors, armed to the teeth, and I look at what I have in my hand and it is only a stick/pipe (it is still a weapon - you can kill someone with that,) I would throw the stick away, lay down and bid my time rather than get shot at. JUST COMMON SENSE!

so yeah, I think you missed that part.

of course, whether it is legal or not, I won't  comment. 

cheers,
Frank


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## jollyjacktar

There are two sides to a incident.  Usually it is actions taken/not taken on part of both sides that affect the outcome or cause the outcome.  So far, I have seen a bit of both in the form of video released by each side.  Both appear to be edited for public consumption.  Hopefully there will an impartial investigation from a third party which can get to the bottom of what happened and what went wrong.  I am sure there will be plenty of blame to go around and then some.

In the end it is a tragedy, plain and simple that people were killed and injured on both sides.


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## SeanNewman

The thing that always must be considered with Israel is that it is a perfect example of the average Canadian not having any idea of what it is like to live under any danger whatsoever.

Even in the World Wars, apart from the odd sub near Halifax or some dynamite over the Pacific, we have never been in genuine danger and that shows in the CBC comments of this Israel story.  The same people condemn England for bombing German cities because they don't know what it's like to have your own city bombed for several years and have tens of thousands of your fellow citizens killed.

Canadians seem so willing to condemn them for acts of violence, because in my opinion they could not be more naive to what it is like to live in fear that not only do people want you dead, but want your country dead, and your way of life dead.

This is not a rant of a tangent because it is specifically about today's Gaza story...go and read the CBC comments under the story.  Deep down that should make you feel good to be a soldier because we and our grandparents have done such a good job shielding those sheep.


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## jollyjacktar

It also is all about optics.  The use of force and what can appear to be minimal to one person can appear to be excessive to another.  And that is why I believe what  I have seen so far has been edited to some degree as each side tries to get it's message out.


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## Fishbone Jones

They just showed an interview on the news, with a guy from BC. He said he went with his friends aboard one of the other ships. He said the express purpose of their trip was to run the Israeli blockade. Not to deliver aid. To run the blockade.


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## tomahawk6

Try running an RCMP roadblock and see what happens. Its the same on the high seas.



> If a neutral ship is intent on running a blockade after being warned to turn back, the fact that it’s on the high seas isn’t a defense


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## Redeye

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It also is all about optics.  The use of force and what can appear to be minimal to one person can appear to be excessive to another.  And that is why I believe what  I have seen so far has been edited to some degree as each side tries to get it's message out.



I think the apt description of the whole thing, as far as optics goes, was that of the Guardian today - they referred to the whole mess as something of an own-goal for Israel.  The flotilla was there primarily I think to run the blockade, and they were, it seems, ready for a fight in some manner.  The Israeli reaction, on the surface at least, seems far too heavy-handed, however, I wasn't there, and I can't comment beyond what I can perceive from what I've seen so far.  No matter what happened the result was guaranteed to be ugly.


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## The Bread Guy

There IS an element of the IDF being sucked into a bit of nice propaganda for the other side, *BUT* this only works because a lot of the context is being lost in the "Israel is bad, aid ships are good" meme:

1)  Multiple ships boarded, with no problem, one ship boarded, "aid workers" whale away on troops coming off the fast rope.  Based on what the video shows, if that level of beating happened to a cop or a soldier in the street, I'm guessing lethal force would be within reason if nothing else was stopping it.

2)  The messaging is "oh, those poor aid workers bringing humanitarian assistance to the poor Gazans".  If the humanitarians really WERE humanitarian, and everyone (if CBC Radio is to be believed) was trained in non-violent resistance, this is comparable to the anti-globalization/capitalism protesters not being able to keep a grip on the violent few.  In this case, though, I don't see a lot of media yet asking the aid folks, "why the violent response when many were reportedly trained in non-violent resistance?"  What's the dividing line between "aid worker" and "activist"?

3)  All that said, it really was a bit of a no-win for Israel:  do nothing, and the stuff gets through; react within what you see as your rights against (what appear to be) a small group of hotheads/instigators/rabble rousers, and you get this.


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## HItorMiss

Those Commandos were well trained in use of force principals, If they had to defend themselves they were well within their right to do so.

If the other ships reported no issues then clearly they were not on some murder spree... Unlike what the pro Arab media will try and spin it. If your ship is being boarded and you have nothing to hide then you relent and do what you are told until the situation resolves itself kinda like when a Police office does it. Argue or fight the police and well we all know what happens.  Attack a soldier with a lead pipe stun grenades and fire bombs well As a soldier myself I would deem my life under threat and react accordingly.

All that being said I am not an Israeli Commando and I was not in their shoes but I agree with them defending themselves and that is how I see it from the video footage.


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## jollyjacktar

Speaking as a former LEO, you are allowed to use up to such force as necessary to protect yourself and do what you need to do.  However once you cross the line over beyond what is needed you get into excessive force.  And that, is a determination that is made by others after the fact not in the heat of moment.  As a LEO you will be held accountable for any excessive force you use and will have no protection under law.  This event will I fear be judged by the court of public opinion overall and the real truth may never be discovered when the dust settles.  Time will tell.


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## bdave

I understand the aspect of protecting yourself when someone shows opposition, but can someone explain why the commandos were in the right to board the ships at all?
My issue is not with the ships but with the fact that Israel behaves as though it owns Palestine and the waters surrounding Palestine.


I am not sure how believable this source is, since I cannot seem to find it on other websites, but the situation has apparently escalated:


			
				http://ibnlive.in.com/news/turkey-threatens-action-israel-on-alert/116743-2.html said:
			
		

> Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.



Also,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100531/wl_mideast_afp/israelconflictgazaworld


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## GAP

The Media, especially the Arab media, and those with an agenda against Israel are loving this. They poked Israel with 5 sticks and the Israeli's broke one....they aren't going to back down ever. 

If the Turkish Navy wants to get involved, they'd best be prepared to lose some ships....Israel can't allow this to happen.


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## vonGarvin

I don't care who's right or wrong: I just hope that cooler heads prevail.


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## tomahawk6

A couple of videos at the link.

http://www.mererhetoric.com/2010/05/31/video-new-close-ups-of-peaceful-gaza-flotilla-brutally-attacking-idf-commandos/


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## Ex-Dragoon

bdave said:
			
		

> I understand the aspect of protecting yourself when someone shows opposition, but can someone explain why the commandos were in the right to board the ships at all?
> My issue is not with the ships but with the fact that Israel behaves as though it owns Palestine and the waters surrounding Palestine.
> 
> 
> I am not sure how believable this source is, since I cannot seem to find it on other websites, but the situation has apparently escalated:
> Also,
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100531/wl_mideast_afp/israelconflictgazaworld



The IDF calls the area around GAZA an Area of Conflict and were warning mariners accordingly. bdave, I know you believe the Israelis are the big bad boogiemen, but lets use our heads. If you were is the Israeli's shoes would you really trust a convoy of ships bearing down not to be carrying something that will hurt your people. This "peace" convoy had fair warning, the chose to ignore it and suffered the consequences.


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## The Bread Guy

bdave said:
			
		

> How would you react if you saw a commando boarding the ship you were on, fully armed and ready? At that point, I would think you'd have grounds for believing they are there to kick some ***. Would you try to defend yourself, or just let them take over?
> 
> This is akin to an intruder breaking into your peaceful, quiet house and once you fight back, you are reprimanded/sued for not complying.
> 
> Is there something I am missing or do not know?



This isn't someone breaking in unannounced.  Suppose you're part of a convoy with multiple vehicles, and the cops tell you to pull over.  Every vehicle except yours pulls over.  When the cops try to stop you, you ram the vehicle and injure or kill the cop.  That's what THIS looks like to me.

Now, as to whether the boarding was legal, the ISR Ministry of Foreign Affairs cites an interesting reference - again, highlights mine:


> .... 7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area.  That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.
> 
> 8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. *The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade. *
> 
> 9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.
> 
> 10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were  relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade ....



In a different vein, this interesting tidbit jumped out at me from an IDF account - highlights mine:


> .... “I was among the last to descend, and I saw that the group was dispersed, everyone in his own corner surrounded by 3 or 4 men, I saw a soldier on the floor with two men beating him. I peeled them off of him and they came at me and began beating me with the clubs. That’s how I broke my arm. At that moment I had no weapon in my hands, like everyone else who descended on the cables empty-handed. *My paintball gun was behind me.*
> 
> “They came and attacked me, I brought them down to the floor, I took a few steps back, I took out my paintball gun, they came at me, and I shot at their legs. One of the clubs destroyed *my paint gun* and I moved on to my pistol which was the only thing to hold against them. At this point my arm no longer functioned.” ....



At about 1:02 into this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI
you can see someone holding what looks like a paintball gun with a big "pop bottle" pellet receptacle above the weapon, pointing it to the left of the screen.

A paintball gun?


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## HItorMiss

Yeah Paintball gun crank up the airpressure and it really smarts, fill the balls with pepper spray or tear gas liquid and they can be an amazing non lethal deterrent to crowds.


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## bdave

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> The IDF calls the area around GAZA an Area of Conflict and were warning mariners accordingly. bdave, I know you believe the Israelis are the big bad boogiemen, but lets use our heads. If you were is *the Israeli's shoes would you really trust a convoy of ships bearing down not to be carrying something that will hurt your people*. This "peace" convoy had fair warning, the chose to ignore it and suffered the consequences.



I understand this, but it doesn't mean Israel is in the right.
All countries will act in their best interests. It doesn't necessarily mean that those acts are morally valid.



			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> This isn't someone breaking in unannounced.  Suppose you're part of a convoy with multiple vehicles, and the cops tell you to pull over.  Every vehicle except yours pulls over.  When the cops try to stop you, you ram the vehicle and injure or kill the cop.  That's what THIS looks like to me.
> 
> Now, as to whether the boarding was legal, the ISR Ministry of Foreign Affairs cites an interesting reference



Doesn't the blockade have to be lawful? 


If Israel doesn't own Palestine, and by proxy does not own Palestinian waters, then the Israeli blockade is illegal and, thus, Israel has no right to enforce such a blockade and board the flotilla.

*Is this incorrect: Israel does not legally own the Palestinian waters?*
If the answer is yes, then I retract all my statements.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Hello???? For all intensive purposes Israel and Palestine are belligerent states to one another. Don't get so hung up on if its lawful or not, after all Israel has fulfilled her obligations by announcing and enforcing a blockade.



> * Article 22(1), (3), of the Geneva Convention on the High Seas, 13 U.S. T., at 2318-2319, for example, states that a warship may only board a merchant ship if it has a "reasonable ground for suspecting" the merchant ship is involved in piracy, the slave trade, or traveling under false colors. If an inspection fails to support the suspicion, the merchant ship "shall be compensated for any loss or damage that may have been sustained." Article 23 contains comparable provisions for the stopping of merchant ships by aircraft. Similarly, Article 1 of the Pan American Maritime Neutrality Convention, 47 Stat., at 1990, 1994, permits a warship to stop a merchant ship on the high seas to determine its cargo, and whether it has committed "any violation of blockade," but the warship may only use force if the merchant ship "fails to observe the instructions given it." Article 27 provides: "A belligerent shall indemnify the damage caused by its violation of the foregoing provisions. It shall likewise be responsible for the acts of persons who may belong to its armed forces."*


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## bdave

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Hello???? For all intensive purposes



Intents and purposes.



			
				Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> *Don't get so hung up on if its lawful or not *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 22(1), (3), of the Geneva Convention on the High Seas, 13 U.S. T., at 2318-2319, for example, states that a warship may only board a merchant ship if it has a "reasonable ground for suspecting" the merchant ship is involved in piracy, the slave trade, or traveling under false colors. If an inspection fails to support the suspicion, the merchant ship "shall be compensated for any loss or damage that may have been sustained." Article 23 contains comparable provisions for the stopping of merchant ships by aircraft. Similarly, Article 1 of the Pan American Maritime Neutrality Convention, 47 Stat., at 1990, 1994, permits a warship to stop a merchant ship on the high seas to determine its cargo, and whether it has committed "any violation of blockade," but the warship may only use force if the merchant ship "fails to observe the instructions given it." Article 27 provides: "A belligerent shall indemnify the damage caused by its violation of the foregoing provisions. It shall likewise be responsible for the acts of persons who may belong to its armed forces."
Click to expand...


I'm not sure how I'm supposed to reply or what to make of this.
I will therefore bow out of this thread because there is clearly something I don't understand.


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## Ex-Dragoon

bdave said:
			
		

> Intents and purposes.


You are correct, my backwoods caper slipped in there.



> I'm not sure how I'm supposed to reply or what to make of this.
> I will therefore bow out of this thread because there is clearly something I don't understand.



At least quote the entire phrase as the meat is after what you quoted.


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## Colin Parkinson

Bdave I watched the videos from both sides. The IDF screwed up by allowing the fast rope to take place on what was clearly a crowd ready to ambush them on arrival. Once the first commando is down, the rest needed to get into it to save their comrade. The use of paintball guns is quite clear showing the IDF did not plan on imediate deadly force, those same Comandos then pulled out their pistols later in the video. Hard to say exactly what changed thier equasion. A full inquiry by someone the IDF can trust to be neautral would be their best move from a PR point now. Also express regret over the neccesity of boarding a Turkish ship flagged ship would be useful. 

_Borrowed from Tanknet_
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994 

http://www.icrc.org/...125641f002d49ce

will give some light to legal aspect. 

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b ) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c ) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.


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## DexOlesa

Now I'm not navy but explain to me. If I owned the waters would I not then in theory own the ports? Why would I blockade my own ports? You would only Blockade enemy ports which would be in their waters. Maybe I'm wrong but thats how it logically works out in my mind.


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## Ex-Dragoon

DexOlesa said:
			
		

> Now I'm not navy but explain to me. If I owned the waters would I not then in theory own the ports? Why would I blockade my own ports? You would only Blockade enemy ports which would be in their waters. Maybe I'm wrong but thats how it logically works out in my mind.



Gaza and West Bank are not part of Israel anymore, remember.


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## Dennis Ruhl

A blockade in time of war is standard operating procedure.  Perhaps the Hamas leadership of Gaza might want to quit continuously issuing statements that they are at war with Israel.  It isn't odd that Israel believes them

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/hamas-pm-ismail-haniyeh-at-war-with-israel-ndash-and-his-own-rivals-14127769.html


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## FastEddy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It also is all about optics.  The use of force and what can appear to be minimal to one person can appear to be excessive to another.  And that is why I believe what  I have seen so far has been edited to some degree as each side tries to get it's message out.



Now that's very interesting, just how do you edit a video which doesent show any offering of resistance or violence to one that does. ?????

Cheers.


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## DexOlesa

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Gaza and West Bank are not part of Israel anymore, remember.



Sorry what I meant was Bdave asking if Israel owned Palestinian waters cause if they didn't the blockade would be illegal. I was saying you only have blockades in waters that weren't yours why would you blockade your own waters.


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## vonGarvin

Interesting points about the international rules of the sea.  I know very little about them, and the only recent example that comes to mind isn't that recent: the Falklands War.  As I recall, the UK declared a zone of "x" around the Falklands.   The area in question in that case was in dispute, but in this case, it "appears" as though some decided to "break the blockade" and thus put Israel in a very interesting and difficult situation.  If they allowed it through, then they lose.  If they do what they did: they lose.  Short term, anyway.  

Now, as an aside, I saw someone inferring that bdave opposes Isreal.  I must highlight the fact that he was quite clear in stating that he was playing devil's advocate, and in so doing, has raised some good points, so I ask my fellow posters here to follow his example and keep this civil.


----------



## leroi

Here's a little more info from Israeli-Canadian perspective.

The Gaza Flotilla Confrontation: A Canada Israel Committee Perspective

http://www.jewishtoronto.com/blog_post.aspx?id=1995

In the early hours of Monday morning, the Israeli Defense Forces prevented a group of ships from attempting to reach Gaza. The ships, with several hundred activists and supplies had refused Israeli offers to offload the goods at Ashkelon for transfer to Gaza following appropriate security clearance. One ship, sponsored by a terrorist Turkish organization known as IHH, was the site of violence when Israeli soldiers were attacked as they boarded the ship. The IHH has a long history of cooperation with Islamic terrorists. As a result of this violence, 10 individuals were reportedly killed and several IDF soldiers were wounded. Here are some facts about this tragic incident, provided by Canada Israel committee.

1. Israeli sailors, attempting to board one of the six ships of the protest flotilla en route to Gaza, were attacked by dozens of activists armed with knives, metal bars, and handguns. Fearing for their lives, the Israeli soldiers had no choice but to respond. At least four Israeli personnel were wounded by various means, including by gunfire from activists.

2. Israel made every effort to provide the flotilla organizers with an opportunity to avoid a confrontation. Israel offered to bring the flotilla into the port of Ashdod, and to transfer their aid to Gaza following appropriate security checks. The organizers rejected this offer, stating clearly that "this mission is not about delivering humanitarian supplies, it's about breaking Israel's siege." (Greta Berlin, AFP, 27 May 10).

3. Israel gave repeated warning of the maritime blockade in effect off the coast of Gaza and that the flotilla would be turned away and brought to an Israeli port to offload their cargo.

4. The organizers of the protest deliberately invited a confrontation with Israeli sailors. This was not an aid mission, but a PR stunt designed to undermine Israel and bolster Hamas, internationally recognized as a terrorist organization. Among the protestors were a group of highly-trained extremists with links to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihadist groups in Afghanistan.

5. There is no blockade on humanitarian aid to Gaza. In fact, Israel delivers 15,000 tons of humanitarian aid - including medical supplies, food, and water - to Gaza every week. The blockade exists to prevent unauthorized individuals and unknown cargo from entering Gaza and falling into the hands of its ruling Hamas regime.

6. Hamas is presently smuggling in massive amounts of military supplies into Gaza to fortify its positions and continue its attacks. Under international law Israel has the right to intercept vehicles that are "believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture." (Section 67A of the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea).

To view the warning issued by the Israel Defense Forces and the situation faced by Israeli soldiers, please click here
http://jerusalem2day.posterous.com/using-web-20-during-flotilla

To view video of flotilla participants expressing their wish for martyrdom please click here http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2489.htm

For information on protests within Israel, please see below.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177051

For the current status of the flotilla
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896996,00.html


----------



## jollyjacktar

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Now that's very interesting, just how do you edit a video which doesent show any offering of resistance or violence to one that does. ?????
> 
> Cheers.



What I mean by editing is that they may not be showing the entire run of the video feed.  If you remember the Wikileak thread discussed elsewhere showing the engagement in Iraq between the Apache and the Insurgents that had Reporters embedded with them.  There was a short version, and later a much longer version on the net.  The longer version gave more information and could allow one to make a more informed decision on events.

The video I had viewed at the time of my original post from the Blockade runner side was spotty at best and did not show any bits of the resistance from the passengers that the IDF video was showing.


----------



## jollyjacktar

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> What I mean by editing is that they may not be showing the entire run of the video feed.  If you remember the Wikileak thread discussed elsewhere showing the engagement in Iraq between the Apache and the Insurgents that had Reporters embedded with them.  There was a short version, and later a much longer version on the net.  The longer version gave more information and could allow one to make a more informed decision on events.
> 
> The video I had viewed at the time of my original post from the Blockade runner side was spotty at best and did not show any bits of the resistance from the passengers that the IDF video was showing.   Whereas the IDF video was short in duration, was from one perspective (above FLIR) and was showing particular points of danger to their personnel.   ie. the Commando that was hit with what appears to be a metal pole, etc etc etc.
> 
> Much later in the evening on another web site, there was shots from one of the small Israeli boats along side.  It gave different views an information.


----------



## bdave

Discussing this with someone, this is what they told me:



> *1. A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.*
> 
> *2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.*
> 
> 3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.
> 
> 4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.
> 
> *5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.*
> 
> 6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.
> 
> 7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.
> 
> 8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.
> 
> 9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.
> 
> 10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.
> 
> 11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.
> 
> 12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.



While I don't agree with the way Israel treats Palestine, I  now complete understand and agree that Israel was legally justified in what they did. Bolded the parts that really made it clear.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

> While I don't agree with the way Israel treats Palestine, I  now complete understand and agree that Israel was legally justified in what they did. Bolded the parts that really made it clear.



And that is how using verifyable fact, as opposed to rumour and opinion, works folks.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from Reuters:


> Wrong intelligence, wrong equipment, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday in the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.
> 
> (....)
> 
> Marine commandos involved in the attack pointed to a failure of intelligence.
> 
> "We did not expect such resistance from the group's activists as we were talking about a humanitarian aid group," the boarding party's commander, an unnamed naval lieutenant who received special permission to be interviewed, told Army Radio.
> 
> "The outcome was different to what we thought, but I must say that this was mainly because of the inappropriate behaviour of the adversary we encountered."
> 
> Though Israel's police quarantine of activists from the Mavi Marmara prevented the airing of dissenting testimony, a video clip filmed by one of the passengers as the converted cruise ship was stormed showed two marines being clubbed and stabbed.
> 
> The Israeli military also released night-vision footage of a half-dozen commandos grappling with as many as 30 activists.
> 
> (....)
> 
> Some of the troops wielded paintball rifles — non-lethal weapons designed to bruise, beat back and mark suspects for later arrest, but which apparently proved of limited use against activists who had the protection of life-jackets and gas masks.
> 
> "It's clear that the equipment for crowd-dispersal with which they were issued was insufficient," Israel's armed forces chief, Lieutenant-General Gabi Ashkenazi, told reporters.
> 
> There was little question of calling off the raid once the first Israelis were in the fight and vulnerable, though the navy said some commandos opted to escape by jumping overboard.
> 
> Israel said seven marines were injured, one after activists threw him over a railing and two from gunshot wounds, possibly from sidearms that were wrested from them.
> 
> "A number of the fighters who understood the situation, the threat posed to their lives, reoriented themselves and simply worked with live (ammunition) weapons as soon as they came down," the marines lieutenant said.
> 
> Some experts questioned whether a police anti-riot unit might have tackled the resistance with less bloodshed.
> 
> But an Israeli defence official said only marines were capable of the takeover 120 km (75 miles) in the choppy Mediterranean, timed for darkness to surprise the activists and deprive attendant journalists of spectacular pictures.
> 
> Barak's deputy, Matan Vilnai, brushed off the demand in the best-selling Yedioth Ahronoth daily that the defence minister resign. He hinted Israel had exhausted covert means of stalling the Mavi Marmara and five other vessels in a flotilla that sailed for Gaza in defiance of an Israeli campaign to isolate the Hamas movement that controls the territory.
> 
> "Everything was considered. I don't want to elaborate beyond that, because the fact is there were not up to 10, or however many ships were (originally) planned," Vilnai told Israel Radio, alluding to rumours that some of the vessels had been sabotaged.
> 
> (....)
> 
> Alon Ben-David, defence correspondent for Israel's Channel 10 television, noted that video footage appears to show marines thwarted an attempt by activists to tie one of the rappelling ropes to the deck, a major threat to the hovering helicopter.
> 
> "The outcome could have been much worse," Ben-David said.


----------



## tourza

For your consideration, 3 articles from the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz, posted with the usual caveats.

These articles (opinions/blogs) deal more with the domestic political fallout of this latest IDF debacle, rather than the technical details of the operation itself. 


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/operation-mini-cast-lead-1.293417

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/a-special-place-in-hell-the-second-gaza-war-israel-lost-at-sea-1.293246

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/seven-idiots-in-the-cabinet-1.293418


Enjoy.

Tourza


----------



## The Bread Guy

So,* if* this is true **:


> .... Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. *Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy*, a development with unpredictable consequences ....



and NATO's Sec-Gen is already talking about this:


> Today the North Atlantic Council (NAC) met for an extraordinary meeting to discuss the recent Israeli operation against ships bound for Gaza. There was an extensive exchange of views among Allies on all aspects of this tragic event.
> 
> I would like to express my deep regret over the loss of lives and the other casualties resulting from the use of force during the incident involving the convoy sailing to Gaza. I offer sincere condolences to the families of all victims and condemn the acts which have led to this tragedy. I add my voice to the calls by the United Nations and the European Union for a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation into the incident.
> 
> As a matter of urgency, I also request the immediate release of the detained civilians and ships held by Israel.



how messy is it going to get *if* the Turkish Navy, indeed, send ships?







** - can't find any other MSM references, so *caveat lector*


----------



## winnipegoo7

Ever heard the tale of the SS Exodus? It's an amazing story about stopping terrorists from reaching Palestine.  Deja vu!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus
http://www.humanitarianchronicle.com/2010/06/the-freedom-flotilla-and-the-exodus-revolving-history/


----------



## PMedMoe

Canadian to be deported from Israel after raid

The family of a Canadian activist caught aboard a deadly protest flotilla has been told he will likely be deported home within hours.

But it doesn’t mean he won’t return to the same cause and another challenge to Israel’s blockade of Gaza.

Steve Neish, older brother to Kevin Neish — a 53-year-old retired engineer and pro-Palestinian activist from Victoria, B.C. — says his sibling’s daughter has been told he’s OK and soon headed home.

“He’ll be deported within 72 hours, so we know he’s safe,” Steve Neish told QMI Agency.

Neish was on a Gaza-bound flotilla when it was stormed by Israeli commandos. Nine people were killed during the raid that has touched off a firestorm of protest and debate around the globe.

All the activists were taken off the boats Monday, and many who identified themselves were reportedly given the option of deportation or jail.

Foreign affairs have confirmed there are three Canadians who were detained after the flotilla was stopped.

More on link


----------



## winnipegoo7




----------



## HItorMiss

Wow aren't you smart....

Ever fast rope, let alone fast rope into a confined space that is moving while your platfrom is moving as well yeah I didn't think so

Do you have somthing useful to add or are you done now.

Those Commandos did the job they were trained and ordered to do good on them.


EDIT: Clarity


----------



## SeanNewman

Winipegoo, I thought it was funny.  :-\


----------



## HItorMiss

Yeah you would...... bet you haven't done it either :


----------



## SupersonicMax

BM:  Good for you, you did it.  You rock.  Now, let's work on that sense of humour...

winnipegoo7:  I tought it was funny.


----------



## HItorMiss

NO I never said I have done it, but I do not find the concept of mocking those who have done it because they did what was ordered of them amusing.

I not only imagine that it takes a great amount of skill but courage to not only get on that rope but see what you are sliding into...

Call me funny that way


On that note I will bow out of this argument as it does not serve the discussion at hand. I will say that the image would be funny in a different context but in one where soldiers where hurt doing their job is not.

Edit: Clairity again stupid old key board


----------



## Retired AF Guy

bdave

Reference your earlier post from the news agency IBN about the Turkish Navy escorting humanitarian ships to Gaza. Prior to this post I had never heard of IBN, but found this at wikipedia: 

_Cable News Network-Indian Broadcasting Network (CNN-IBN) is an English-language Indian TV news channel. The network is a partnership between Global Broadcast News (GBN) and Turner International (Turner) in India (a subsidiary of Time Warner). Rajdeep Sardesai is the Editor-in-Chief of the network. The Indian company GBN runs the channel completely but uses the CNN brand name, in return gave 26% stake to Time Warner._

As for the actual report, here are links to two reports from the Turkish Daily News on Turkish responses to the incident:

 Turkey launches long-term diplomatic war against Israel 

 Turkish PM Erdoğan calls on world to punish Israel over deadly attack 

Neither report makes any mention of the Turkish military getting involved in any future blockade running and while the Turks are royally pissed-off at Israel, the Turks are calling for diplomatic action against Israel not military.


----------



## The Bread Guy

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> I will say that the image would be funny in a different context but in one where soldiers where hurt doing their job is not.


Bang on - I've commented on a few blogs that this is not exactly classy when troops were injured.  Then again, when the blog gives the cartoon the title "Fast Rope 101", was there any point to my including my comment?  One tries...



			
				Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> ....  Turkey launches long-term diplomatic war against Israel
> 
> Turkish PM Erdoğan calls on world to punish Israel over deadly attack
> 
> Neither report makes any mention of the Turkish military getting involved in any future blockade running and while the Turks are royally pissed-off at Israel, the Turks are calling for diplomatic action against Israel not military.


I'd never heard of same, either, and no other Turkish MSM I could find in English had the reference, hence the caveats.  Thanks for this.


----------



## tomahawk6

The wild card in this drama is Turkey. They are working against the interests of the west while advancing an islamist ideology. Turkish warships might be used as escorts the next time. What happens if Israel attacks Turkish warships or vice versa ? I think the time is fast approaching to expel Turkey from NATO or we get lucky and the Turkish Army moves against the islmaist government.


----------



## The Bread Guy

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The wild card in this drama is Turkey. They are working against the interests of the west while advancing an islamist ideology. Turkish warships might be used as escorts the next time. What happens if Israel attacks Turkish warships or vice versa ? I think the time is fast approaching to expel Turkey from NATO or we get lucky and the Turkish Army moves against the islmaist government.


There's some bloggers/commentators out there going as far as saying it's time for Obama to choose:  support Turkey/NATO, or support Israel.


----------



## Infanteer

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> What happens if Israel attacks Turkish warships or vice versa ? I think the time is fast approaching to expel Turkey from NATO or we get lucky and the Turkish Army moves against the islmaist government.



Israeli statesman can say, at the end of the day, that "we are still here".  That is a pretty powerful sentiment that can justify many things.  Unlike us, Israel only has to lose one.

However....

I'd rather leave Turkey and Israel to their own devices if it came to this scenario.  2010 is much different than 1956, and the strategic situation is such that I don't find the "national survival" argument as pressing at this time.


----------



## Journeyman

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Israeli statesman can say, at the end of the day, that "we are still here".  That is a pretty powerful sentiment that can justify many things.  Unlike us, Israel only has to lose one.



Good call. If you're living at ground zero, it tends to focus the mind and perhaps you care even less about the UN calling for "a transparent and impartial examination of the events." Since Israel has been facilitating 15,000 tons of humanitarian aid weekly, the flotilla's intent was obvious.

Quoting _SS Exodus_ is interesting, but only because most [limited] knowledge comes from Leon Uris' book, which wasn't _quite_ correct. The bottom line though, is that for most of the 1947 world, no one cared about the Palestine issue so public opinion was won by whoever generated the most powerful images; at the time, it was Israel.

What's different today? I mean, besides even _less_-informed mouth breathers getting to post on CBC.ca

My guess?
1) The situation was ripe for this action because President Obama has been adamant that he's seeking "consensus" on any political/military deployments -- the "global sheriff" is gone. The one place on the planet you'll never get consensus is the Middle East. As long as the US is (rightfully?) saying "piss off world; we're tired of your ingratitude for hauling your bacon out of the German/Nazi/N.Korean/Communist fires," this particular event will be a recurring theme.

2) Tied in with this, NATO credibility is shaky enough with A'stan. There's no way anyone is going to bitch-slap Turkey -- our only "Muslim" member. This gives Turkey a perfect opportunity to take an increasingly sought leadership role in the "non-Islamist" Muslim world. The only other competitor is Egypt. Turkey has had pretty close ties with Israel recently, but I suspect that most of them were through the military. This gives the Ankara government an opportunity (if not public-relations obligation) for further distance.

3) On a minor note (did anyone think I'd pass an opportunity to slap the "League of Nations 2"?  ;D By launching this flotilla, and any follow-on's, through northern Cyprus, Turkey can demonstrate that they do indeed _own_ the northern half of Cyprus despite the UN's most concerted efforts since 1964.  :
And if things go horribly, horribly wrong, they can say "hey, it was the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, not us." 

In the end, the flotilla's aims of dividing Israeli internal, and Western governments', public opinion is working quite well. Some days it pays to be a political realist.


ps - _Bulletmagnet_, check PMs


----------



## tomahawk6

Now there is an interesting term "political realist". But whose reality ? The reality is that Israel is beset by enemies along its borders. The enemies of Israel extend throughout the muslim world and into Europe,Canada and the US. The pro-palestinian front is anti-semitic and range from leftists to islamists. Strange bedfellows indeed. The destruction of the state of Israel will be the 21st century version of the holocaust pure and simple. The Iranians may feel the time is ripe with an ineffectual Obama administration to strike at Israel. Obama already displays a strong anti-Israeli bent. If Israel is attacked they can expect no aid from the US or anyone else. Countdown to Armageddon anyone ?

Saw this quote from Ehud Barak Israel's Defense Minister.



> "We live in the Middle East, in a place where there is no mercy for the weak and there aren't second chances for those who don't defend themselves."


----------



## Journeyman

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Now there is an interesting term "political realist". But whose reality ?


Realism, in the international relations' sense, emphasizes national interest over moral concerns or social niceties. I'd say this event demonstrates Turkey's "reality." At the end of the day (or even the End of Days  ), there is no chance Israel will 'go gentle into that good night.' 

I _did_ enjoy the street theatre of watching Erdogan's public shock and disbelief at the inevitable result of Turkey's own actions. And it's a nice break from CBC reporting vacuous opinion polls as "news."
op:


----------



## The Bread Guy

...in addition to the San Remo agreement material posted earlier here, courtesy of Reuters - highlights mine:


> ....  CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?
> 
> Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.
> 
> "If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.
> 
> Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defence after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.
> 
> *Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.
> 
> "But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response,"* Kraska said.
> 
> The use of force may also have other repercussions.
> 
> "While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights," said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.
> 
> "However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view."
> 
> OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL'S RAID "PIRACY". WAS IT?
> 
> No, as under international law it was considered a state action.
> 
> *"Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest,"* Kraska said ....


----------



## time expired

The SS Exodus was a shipload of Jewish refugees most of whom were survivors of Nazi death camps. The
British leftist government decided they would be better off in British concentration camps on Cyprus,the
refugees decided otherwise and some realised that while they had made a huge mistake in not resisting
the Nazis and were not going to make the same mistake again and joined one of the various Jewish
resistance groups.

I feel the Turks have an agenda here,after being rebuffed in their attempt to get into the EU,and given
the muslimist bent of the  of the present government,this is an attempt to rid themselves of their
Jewish connections move towards the Arab block and take a leading role there.I am not sure this is a
good move for them as many Arabs still remember the late not great Ottoman empire.I am also not
sure the military will stand still for this new direction.

Here in Europe the left wing MSM were foaming at the mouth over the evil Israelis,today they have
calmed down somewhat however if this called for UN sponsored  "independent"investigation does not
roundly blame and condemn Israel then it will be called a whitewash and will not be believed.But I am
sure the UN will oblige and back up the left and the Arab street mobs.

                                                  Regards


----------



## LineDoggie

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> Ever heard the tale of the SS Exodus? It's an amazing story about stopping terrorists from reaching Palestine.  Deja vu!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus
> http://www.humanitarianchronicle.com/2010/06/the-freedom-flotilla-and-the-exodus-revolving-history/


Terrorists?


----------



## winnipegoo7

I meant it sarcastically, but 'terrorist' is all in your point of view.  I think the people on the Exodus and the people on the Mavi Marmara have a lot in common.

The SS Exodus voyage was a plan of the Haganah, which I'm sure many old British soldiers would call a terrorist organisation.  (and I would bet that Hamas had it's role in the Mavi Marmara incident)


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> I meant it sarcastically, but 'terrorist' is all in your point of view.  I think the people on the Exodus and the people on the Mavi Marmara have a lot in common.
> 
> The SS Exodus voyage was a plan of the Haganah, which I'm sure many old British soldiers would call a terrorist organisation.  (and I would bet that Hamas had it's role in the Mavi Marmara incident)



The British considered the Haganah terrorists but they were the nice guys.  Note that while the Exodist succeeded in the movie, it failed in the real world.

We've spent the last 90 years dealing with the after-effects of WWI.  The occupation of the middle east by France and the UK and the encouragement of Jewish settlement in Palestine were mistakes but Israel is a current reality and they're not going away.


----------



## time expired

The  Mari Marmara seems to have been crewed by a mix of middle class,left wing idiots with a smattering
of pro Hamas thugs.The Exodus was crewed by people fleeing a Europe that either actively tried to wipe
them out or really didn`t give a damn one way or an other..

the British tried to insure that very few refugees, and no weapons, got to the jews in the belief that on the
inevitable declaration of a Jewish  State, the Arabs would wipe this new State off the face of the earth.The
British could then forget their promise to the Jews to partition Palestine and form a Jewish State and carry
on currying favour with the Arabs.
  

Winnipegoo I see your comparison as being very tenuous at best.


----------



## bdave

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The pro-palestinian front is anti-semitic.



No.
Some people just don't like the condition the Palestinians are currently in, and how the Israeli treat them.
Anti-Jew? Hardly.


----------



## jollyjacktar

bdave said:
			
		

> No.
> Some people just don't like the condition the Palestinians are currently in, and how the Israeli treat them.
> Anti-Jew? Hardly.



I work with a number of folks who believe this.   It is the policies of the Israeli Gov't they disagree with, I don't hear anti-semitism coming from them.  To be sure there are those who are anti-semitic amongst the pro-Palestinian supporters, but it's not all of them.


----------



## tomahawk6

The rhetoric sure has me fooled. The Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves. They have chosen conflict over jobs. Their leaders plot Israels demise. Its absurd to think that the leftists just hate the Israeli government but their actions imperil the lives of all jews living in Israel. How much does Israel have to give up to get peace ?

Just your average tolerant pro-palestinian supporters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjE_7uwA0I&feature


----------



## jollyjacktar

There will be hard line folks on both sides of the fence, I agree.  But there are also I am sure many folks on both sides who just want to live and let live too.  Northern Ireland is a perfect example in that the common folks got tired of all the troubles and it shut most of the hard men down.  Won't be easy I know,  but maybe someday it may come.


----------



## CougarKing

Another update: I can understand how the Malaysians and Indonesians aboard would sympathize with the Gazan Palestinians since Malaysians and the Indonesians are also Sunni Muslims, but the Irish?   ???

AFP link




> JERUSALEM (AFP) - *The Rachel Corrie activist ship kept its course for a Saturday arrival in Gaza -- or confrontation -- as world anger simmered over Israel's deadly raid on an earlier blockade-busting bid.*
> "We are not afraid," Irish Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire told Ireland's RTE state radio by satellite phone from aboard the aid-laden ship.
> 
> 
> "We started out to deliver this cargo to the people of Gaza and to break the siege of Gaza, that is what we want to do," the 66-year-old said as the vessel steamed towards the impoverished Palestinian enclave.
> 
> 
> *The MV Rachel Corrie was just hours from Gaza but the 15 aboard -- Irish and Malaysian activists, four Indonesian crew and a Scottish captain -- did not intend to leave international waters and run the Israeli gauntlet until after daybreak Saturday, organisers said. *
> 
> 
> Resentment ran high in Turkey, which sent more than half the almost 700 activists aboard the ill-fated six-ship convoy.
> 
> (...)


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Another update: I can understand how the Malaysians and Indonesians aboard would sympathize with the Gazan Palestinians since Malaysians and the Indonesians are also Sunni Muslims, but the Irish?   ???



Like an Irishman is going to avoid a scrap.

The Irish prime minister issued a warning.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Maybe Ireland should spend some time worrying about its economy instead of waging war with Israel.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Dennis Ruhl said:
			
		

> Like an Irishman is going to avoid a scrap.



Excuse me?


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Hopefully he meant to avoid scrapping the ship to EU standards......


----------



## The Bread Guy

This, from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs - highlights mine:


> .... On Friday morning, an understanding was reached with the Israeli government whereby the Rachel Corrie would have approached the Israeli exclusion zone before accepting diversion to the Israeli port of Ashdod.   At Ashdod, the cargo would have been unloaded and inspected under the supervision of UN and officials from the Irish Aid Division of my Department.  The entire cargo, including what is understood to be 550 tonnes of cement, would then have been transported to Gaza.  Two persons from the Rachel Corrie would have been permitted to accompany the cargo to the Israeli border crossing into Gaza at Erez.
> 
> In my view, such an arrangement would have offered a useful precedent for future humanitarian shipments, pending the complete lifting of the blockade.
> 
> *This proposal was put to those on board the Rachel Corrie who, on Friday afternoon, after careful consideration and having thanked the Government for its efforts, declined to accept it. * I fully respect their right to do so and to continue their protest action by seeking to sail to Gaza.
> 
> If, as is their stated intention, the Israeli government intercepts the Rachel Corrie, the Government demands that it demonstrate every restraint.  Those on board the Rachel Corrie have made clear their peaceful intentions and have stated that they will offer no resistance to Israeli forces.  *Based on these assurances, there can be no justification for the use of force against any person on board the Rachel Corrie* ....


(On this last orange bit, *"assurances"* of "peaceful intentions" and not offering "resistance to Israeli forces" aren't quite enough - actions speak louder that words.)

From the Israeli side:


> Amb. Yossi Gal, Director General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, made the following statement to the press today in Jerusalem:
> 
> "I want to once again deliver a message that has been delivered in both public and private channels to the Rachel Corrie ship heading toward Gaza:
> 
> We have no desire for a confrontation. We have no desire to board the ship. If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it.
> 
> Israel is prepared to receive the ship and to offload its contents.
> After an inspection to ensure that no weapons and war materials are on board, we are prepared to deliver all of the goods to Gaza.
> 
> Representative of the people on board and relevant NGOs are welcome to accompany the goods to the crossings.
> 
> We will work with the UN and international organizations to ensure that all the goods are used for the benefit of the people of Gaza."


----------



## bdave

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/04/gaza.raid.autopsies/index.html?hpt=T2 said:
			
		

> Istanbul, Turkey (CNN) -- Autopsy results by forensics experts in Istanbul revealed that all nine of the men killed by Israeli commandoes aboard the humanitarian convoy that had planned to dock in Gaza died of gunshot wounds.
> 
> The autopsy results give clues about how the violence unfolded after Israeli commandoes stormed the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara in the pre-dawn hours on Monday.
> 
> Five of the men died with bullet wounds to the head, said Dr. Haluk Ince, the director of Istanbul's Medical Examination Institute, said Friday.
> 
> One casualty, a 19-year-old dual national Turkish-American citizen named Furkan Dogan, was found to have bullet wounds in his head and multiple bullets in his body, Ince said.
> 
> According to the U.S. State department, Dogan was born in Troy, New York and had been living in Turkey. American diplomats have been extending consular services to the deceased's family.
> 
> 
> 
> In one case, Ince said, a gunshot victim had been shot at at extremely close range.
> 
> "From the analysis of the bullet distance on one of the bodies," Dr. Ince said, "the gun was fired between 2 and 14 centimeters' distance from the victim's head."
> 
> In one month, the forensic report will be submitted to an Istanbul prosecutor's office. There have already been petitions from families of Turkish activists this week, submitted to state prosecutors to sue the government of Israel on charges of murder.
> 
> The dead activists were treated like fallen heroes at a mass funeral held at Istanbul's Fatih Mosque on Thursday. Crowds gathered in a courtyard, below the domes of the centuries' old Ottoman mosque, in front of the coffins, which were wrapped in Turkish and Palestinian flags. In one case, a flag from the Palestinian movement Hamas lay over a casket.
> 
> "We will remember this, what Israel did," said a young Turkish volunteer named Muhamed Sahin, who was helping hold back the surging crowd. "Everybody has to learn what is going on in Gaza, on the ship, what Israel did."
> 
> Periodically, the crowd chanted "Israel, terrorist" and "Damn Israel."
> 
> The bodies of the 9 dead, as well as more then 460 surviving passengers from the convoy arrived at Istanbul airport before dawn on Thursday. They were treated to a hero's welcome, particularly Bulent Yildirim, the chairman of the Islamist, fiercely pro-Palestinian Turkish charity the Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH). IHH was one of the main groups organizing the blockade-busting flotilla.
> 
> In remarks to the press, Yildirim said his colleagues fought Israeli troops in self-defense aboard the Mavi Marmara. He added that in the early stages of the clashes, his activists captured several Israel commandoes, as well as their weapons, and took them below decks.
> 
> The Israeli troops were given water, Yildirim said. He insisted none of the activists fired the captured Israeli guns.
> 
> Israeli officials have accused the protesters of firing captured weapons during the battle at sea. The Israeli military has also shown images of a commando being beaten with a plastic chair, as well as photos of knives, metal poles, slingshots and marbles as evidence that the Mavi Marmara was a "ship of hatred" full of terrorist sympathizers rather then a "love boat" filled with peace-loving human rights activists.
> 
> "The defense of the boat was quite well organized," said Espen Goffeng, a 38-year-old activist from Norway who sailed aboard the Mavi Marmara. "There was a plan to keep soldiers off the boat."
> 
> Goffeng said passengers aboard the lead ship Mavi Marmara at first successfully repelled Israeli troops on boats. Then, he said, soldiers began their helicopters assault on the vessel.
> 
> "They started off with some kind of paintball bullets with glass in them that left terrible soft tissue wounds. And then rubber bullets. And then live ammunition afterwards. And that's when things started to get really dangerous," Goffeng added.
> 
> Despite the tears and sobbing at Istanbul's Fatih Mosque on Thursday, many of the people gathered for the activists' funeral called this week a "victory," because it brought international attention to Israel's 3-year blockade of Gaza.
> 
> Turkey, once Israel's closest Muslim ally in the Middle East, has accused Israel of committing an act of international piracy.
> 
> "From now on, Turkish-Israeli ties will never be the same," Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Thursday. "The incident has left a deep and irreparable scar."
> 
> According to a spokesman for the Turkish Foreign Ministry, Ankara has issued 3 demands to Israel: apologize for the raid, organize an independent investigation, and lift the blockade of Gaza./quote]


----------



## 1feral1

500T of cement?

I don't call that humanitarian aid.

Whatever happened to real aid such as, clean water, clothing, blankets and of course medicine/medical aid.  

What a crock of shyte.

Meanwhile, the plot thickens..... http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/04/gaza-flotilla-group-part-of-u-n-ngo-branch/

Shard IAW the usual...

The Turkish group at the center of this week's deadly high-seas clash with Israel has been a member of a hard-to-access U.N. organization since 2004, which has given the group special access to the U.N. system.

The Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) branch of U.N.'s Department of Economic and Social Affairs invites in NGOs from around the globe, including the Turkish-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH).

Earlier this week Fox News reported that the IHH has links to terrorist groups including Hamas and Al Qaeda. Indeed, the IHH was described in federal court documents as playing a role in the Millennium terrorist plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport.

The Turkish charity was described in a recent report as being a "radical Islamic organization with an anti-Western orientation," and that "besides its legitimate philanthropic activities, it supports radical Islamic networks, including Hamas, and that at least in the past, even global jihad networks." (See full report below)

Anne Bayefsky, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and Touro College, and an active participant in the U.N.'s NGO system, tells Fox News that the status granted to IHH gives most NGOs access to U.N. diplomats and enables them to speak at sessions of a number of U.N. bodies that are streamed online around the world and translated into six languages.

Their consultative status also allows groups to distribute their material or statements as U.N. documents, Bayefsky said, "which gives them permanence and widespread circulation."

Bayefsky says that the difficulty in joining the NGO committee often depends on the organization and the groups it seeks to protect. While "serious" human rights organizations are often blocked from gaining membership, she said, "applications from NGOs from or aligned with non-democratic states sail through without objection."

While the IHH denies it supports terrorism, one of its members, Oguzan Ulas, told Fox News that Israel is trying to smear the organization. He did however say that the IHH does support Hamas and said that his organization disagreed with Hamas being designated a terrorist group by the U.S.

A U.S. State Department spokesman told Fox News that the IHH has not been designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization, and added, "We are unable to comment on the internal process with respect to specific designations."

But he made it clear where the U.S. stood on fighting terrorism: "We are fully committed to taking appropriate action against foreign groups engaging in terrorist activity in order to prevent such groups from obtaining the resources and support needed to undertake terrorist activity."

Asked whether the United Nations should take any action against the IHH, a spokeswoman for the Office of the Under-Secretary-General for the U.N. Department of Economic and Social Affairs would only confirm that the IHH does indeed enjoy consultative status within the U.N.'s NGO system.

Yet this is not the first time the U.N's NGO system has accepted groups with terrorist links. In 2006 and 2007, Fox News exposed a Saudi-based charity called the International Islamic Relief Organization (IIRO), which, despite having two of its branches in the Philippines and Indonesia on the U.S. and U.N. terror list for aiding Al Qaeda, still enjoys full NGO status. Despite calls from members of Congress to expel them, the U.N. remains silent.

Nineteen countries decide on who gets to join the NGO branch, including Angola, China, Cuba, Egypt, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia and Sudan, a cast of member states that incenses Bayefsky.

"That such countries are the ones that decide who can and cannot participate in the operations of the U.N. explains a lot about what happens there," she said.

Links:

http://esango.un.org/civilsociety/showProfileDetail.do?method=showProfileDetails&profileCode=2525

http://www.ihh.org.tr/uyelikler/en/



OWDU


----------



## 57Chevy

And the latest from Turkey:

ANKARA - Turkey accused Israel on Friday of breaking biblical commandments against killing and said it could cut ties with its one-time ally to a minimum after nine Turkish activists died in a raid on a ship bound for Gaza.


"I am speaking to them in their own language. The sixth commandment says 'thou shalt not kill'. Did you not understand?" Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said in his harshest words yet since Israeli commandos raided the Mavi Marmara on Monday.


"I'll say again. I say in English 'you shall not kill'. Did you still not understand?. So I'll say to you in your own language. I say in Hebrew 'Lo Tirtzakh'," he said in a televised speech to supporters of his Islamist-leaning AK Party.


As relations plunged to their worst since the two countries forged a strategic relationship in the 1990s, Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc also said military and economic agreements with Israel were now on the table for discussion.


"We are serious about this subject," Arinc told the Turkish NTV news channel in an interview.


"We may plan to reduce our relations with Israel to a minimum, but to assume everything involving another country is stopped in an instant, to say we have crossed you out of our address book, is not the custom of our state," he said.


Turkey, Israel's only Muslim ally, had already recalled its ambassador and cancelled joint military exercises after the nine activists were killed while trying to break a blockade on Gaza.


A spokeswoman for activists aboard another boat trying to run the blockade said they would continue their voyage.


Israel, facing an international outcry over its naval operation on Monday, has vowed to stop the Rachel Corrie, named after an activist killed by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza in 2003.


Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ordered Israeli forces to exercise "caution and politeness" in handling the ship, expected near the waters off Gaza by Saturday.


Together with Egypt, Israel tightened its blockade on Gaza after Hamas took control of the coastal enclave in 2007.


Israel has defended the embargo, saying it stops Hamas from bringing in weapons to fight Israel. But officials said on Thursday Netanyahu was considering modifying the blockade, which would introduce some form of international role in enforcing an arms embargo, while letting in civilian goods.


U.S. CALLS FOR PEACE EFFORTS


President Barack Obama said the incident should be used as an opportunity to advance Middle East peace efforts.


"I think what's important right now is that we break out of the current impasse, use this tragedy as an opportunity," he said in an interview with CNN's Larry King on Thursday.


U.S. envoy George Mitchell, who is mediating in indirect Palestinian-Israeli talks which many observers doubt will achieve a breakthrough, met Netanyahu on Friday.


He held talks with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday that a Palestinian official said were dominated by the ship incident and the Gaza blockade.


The United States has been less critical of Israel than others, expressing sympathy for its security concerns while also saying the people of Gaza must get the supplies they need.


Erdogan, however, compared the Israeli actions to those of Kurdish militants in Turkey and stood up for Hamas, calling them "resistance fighters fighting for their land".


"The fate of Jerusalem is not different from the fate of Istanbul," he said, in language reflecting the significance of the holy city to Muslims throughout the world. "The fate of Gaza is not different from the fate of Ankara."


Turkey, an officially secular state, recognized Israel soon after its establishment in 1948. In the 1990s it forged military and intelligence co-operation agreements with Israel, when both had hostile relations with Syria. With Turkey a customer for Israeli arms, bilateral trade reached $2.5 billion in 2009.


However, since the AK Party came to power in 2002, NATO's only Muslim member has sought better relations with Iran and Arab neighbours, notably Syria.


The friendship with Israel began wearing thin after an Israeli offensive in Gaza in 2008. Erdogan has become one of Israel's most trenchant critics, as Turkey increasingly asserts itself as a powerful player in the Muslim world.


The row between Washington's two closest allies in the Middle East comes at a difficult time for the United States, when it is pushing to impose new sanctions on Iran over its nuclear program.

© Copyright (c) Reuters


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Turkish+tells+Israel+thou+shalt+kill/3113560/story.html#ixzz0pv7kyIFK


----------



## a_majoor

More on the raid by the IDF:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-navy-3-commandos-nearly-taken-hostage-in-gaza-flotilla-raid-1.294114



> *Israel Navy: 3 commandos nearly taken hostage in Gaza flotilla raid*
> 
> According to preliminary navy investigation, some passengers on the Mavi Marmara boat dragged three unconscious commandos into one of the passenger halls below deck.
> By Amos Harel Tags: Israel news Gaza flotilla IDF
> 
> During Israel's takeover of a Turkish ship in the Gaza-bound aid flotilla this week, some passengers tried to take captive three commandos who lost consciousness as a result of the activists' blows, according to early findings of a navy investigation. The three were dragged into one of the passenger halls below deck and were held there for several minutes.
> 
> After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades.
> 
> Conversations with senior navy officers in the chain of command during the operation present a different view of the events on Monday. In Israel, the raid has been perceived as a failure, while abroad it has been derided as piracy or worse.
> 
> The navy rejects the claims that it was poorly prepared. Officials have been commending the commandos' performance in a situation in which they were confronted by dozens of activists who attacked them as they rappelled from helicopters. "They were terrorists - hired killers who came to murder soldiers, not to assist the residents of the Gaza Strip," said a navy officer.
> 
> The operation on the Mavi Marmara began at about 4:30 A.M. on Monday. Because of the presence of hard-core activists including members of the IHH, the Turkish group organizing the aid convoy, most attention went to that ship. Navy chief Eliezer Merom and the head of the naval commandos, Lt. Col. A., were on vessels next to the ship. Lt. Col. A. climbed on the Mavi Marmara during the takeover.
> 
> As seen on a video documenting the takeover, the first four commandos to rappel onto the deck were attacked by activists with bars, axes and knives. The fourth commando, K., saw his team leader on the deck, with a Turkish activist holding the pistol he had grabbed from him and pointing it to his head. K. jumped from the rope and managed to shoot the activist holding the gun. This happened 20 seconds after the first soldier landed on the deck.
> 
> The commanders of the first unit were hit by the mob as they landed. One of the soldiers managed to fix another rope, after there were problems with the original one, for 10 more soldiers to land. The commandos cared for the wounded and took over part of the upper deck of the ship.
> 
> At this stage, six minutes into the operation, another force landed from a second helicopter, led by a major. At that point they realized that three commandos were missing and they began looking for them. A short while later the naval commando chief landed along with dozens more soldiers, some of whom climbed from boats. Others landed from a third helicopter.
> 
> The search involved limited shooting, in the bridge and on the lower deck, until the three men were recovered. The head of the naval commandos gave orders by radio to use live fire, two minutes after the incident had begun.
> 
> Shots had been fired earlier, but Lt. Col. A. later explained that in his orders he wanted to make sure that the troops realized that "the mood of the incident had changed."
> 
> The soldiers reported that the activists had fired on them during the confrontation and that at least two commandos suffered gunshot wounds. After the incident, 9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos.
> 
> The Israel Defense Forces says that during the operation a number of pistols and an M-4 rifle were taken from soldiers, but they believe that the Turkish activists had other weapons. The captain of the ship told the naval commando chief that the guns were thrown overboard before the ship was completely taken over.
> 
> The wounded activists were airlifted to Israel for treatment, some seriously hurt whose lives were saved by the evacuation.
> 
> The IDF did not question the activists extensively because of the decision to release them. In conversations after the takeover, activists said they were surprised by the use of helicopters, even though the navy had used this method before. However, nothing else appears to have surprised them because international law requires sufficient warnings before ships are boarded.
> 
> Post-operation assessments have the number of hard-core activists involved in the fighting at between 60 and 100. It appears that they were well trained and experienced, especially in view of the arsenal found and code books used to pass on orders from group leaders. Among the rioters, in addition to Turks, were Yemenis, Afghans and one person from Eritrea. All were apparently experienced in hand-to-hand fighting. Some of them did not retreat when shots were fired.
> 
> The operation involved a month of training, with dummy takeovers of a ship at sea with 50 soldiers performing the role of activists. The navy admits that it trained mostly for "a Bil'in type of opposition, but there was no feeling that this was going to be a walk in the park." He was referring to a village at the separation fence where demonstrations take place.
> 
> The navy says it needs to look into whether the psychological preparations of the force were sufficient, and whether it had emphasized an easier scenario that did not take place.
> 
> The navy says it went over "incidents and responses" in preparation; these included opening fire at charging activists with melee weapons. In case of a threat to their lives, the commandos were ordered to shoot to kill even as they were on their way onto the deck.
> 
> "The main gap between preparations and intelligence was that we did not know we would face dozens of rioters," a senior officer involved in the operation said. "This was not a disturbance that went awry. It was a planned ambush."
> 
> Another officer added that "I still wake up at 3 A.M. and wonder how the hell we did not know more."
> 
> Another officer said said that "we became a little spoiled, as a society, expecting perfect performances."
> 
> According to a senior officer, "Under the circumstances, and I do not like the result, I think we did the best we could. We took care of five ships without injuries. On the sixth ship, we faced a harsh attack and killed nine saboteurs.
> 
> "No real peace activist was injured. No soldier was killed, even though it came pretty close. In the end the ships are docked at Ashdod. It was very complicated and the result is near perfect."



I suspect that ROE's will be changed quite drastically after this for any further raids on ships.


----------



## Kat Stevens

57Chevy said:
			
		

> And the latest from Turkey:
> 
> ANKARA - Turkey accused Israel on Friday of breaking biblical commandments against killing and said it could cut ties with its one-time ally to a minimum after nine Turkish activists died in a raid on a ship bound for Gaza.
> 
> 
> "I am speaking to them in their own language. The sixth commandment says 'thou shalt not kill'. Did you not understand?" Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said in his harshest words yet since Israeli commandos raided the Mavi Marmara on Monday.



Good thing there's nothing in the Koran about it, that would be... awkward.


----------



## bdave

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> 500T of cement?
> 
> I don't call that humanitarian aid.
> 
> Whatever happened to real aid such as, clean water, clothing, blankets and of course medicine/medical aid.
> 
> What a crock of shyte.



Humanitarian aid doesn't only consist of food, clothing, water and medicine.
Shelter is an important aspect that is often forgotten.

When things like this happen:

http://kaichang.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451bb1169e20105369ab3f9970b-500wi

This becomes the after-math:
http://i.idnes.cz/09/053/gal/BOS2b6920_30kav_valka.jpg
http://www.alzaytouna.net/arabic/images/Gaza_War_2009/Gaza_War_2009_50.jpg
http://ahmadalikarim.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/gaza-war.jpg
http://rainbowwarrior2005.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/jand-8-mosque.jpg?w=470&h=298&h=298
http://www.aztlan.net/typical_bombed_structure.jpg

then people go homeless.
Those homes,  schools, mosques and hospitals need to be rebuilt.
You need concrete to do that.


----------



## 1feral1

You're quite the bleeding heart.  Your links are pro arab sites, one refers to the 'freedom flotilla'  :

I'll quote you "I lack experience and knowledge: Take what I say with a grain of salt." Your words, not mine.

Cement is not a priority. Temp housing such as prefabs and tents should be ahead of cement.

EDITs to add: I wish I did not, but I've see more distruction and dispair in one day than you have in you're whole life, so don't go assuming I know SFA about humanitarian aid, you're far from an expert according to your profile.


----------



## bdave

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> You're quite the bleeding heart.  Your links are pro arab sites, one refers to the 'freedom flotilla'  :
> 
> Cement is not a priority. Temp housing such as prefabs and tents should be ahead of cement.


Who cares about the links? I am showing you pictures of actual damage that happened. It could be on pro-Israel sites or pro-sushi sites, it doesn't change the reality of the pictures.
Showing you pictures of why they need cement doesn't make me a bleeding heart. I'm not even sure what a bleeding heart is. Someone who is compassionate?

You are right, though. Cement isn't a priority. However, I don't believe those Flotillas were only stocked with cement, so your point is moot.

Temp housing can only do so much. They still need to rebuild the schools and hospitals that have been demolished.
You need concrete for that.


----------



## 1feral1

bdave said:
			
		

> Who cares about the links? I am showing you pictures of actual damage that happened. It could be on pro-Israel sites or pro-sushi sites, it doesn't change the reality of the pictures.
> Showing you pictures of why they need cement doesn't make me a bleeding heart. I'm not even sure what a bleeding heart is. Someone who is compassionate?
> 
> You are right, though. Cement isn't a priority. However, I don't believe those Flotillas were only stocked with cement, so your point is moot.
> 
> Temp housing can only do so much. They still need to rebuild the schools and hospitals that have been demolished.
> You need concrete for that.



Whatever Dave. 

I will give you credit for not only concrete being stocked on the vessels. We can't forget there was lots of clubs, knives, sling shots and an angry mob of pro HAMAS supporters with open agendas. Who knows what real contraband was on board, and that will come out in time.

Real peaceful people on a mission of peace for/with humitarian aid would have allowed all vessels to be boarded (EDITs to add without incident) and the cargo inspected before released. Thus allowing for the aid to be delivered to those who need it ASAP after clearance. That make sense to me.

Too bad you did not include the pics of Palestinians moving the same smashed corpses from bombsite to bombsite. All for propaganda pics, just like the whole flotilla was - propaganda for their cause.

As for being bomb damage here is what muslims did to each other in Baghdad. http://www.youtube.com/user/1feral1#p/a/u/1/z35MEEBu1-U This is a video I took moments after a huge SVBIED (dump truck) about 1500 metres from our location. 69 killed in that one alone, and the other smaller one killed 26.

My definition of a bleeding heart is someone who is sympathetic towards the enemy or their cause.

The over 600 tunnels from Egypt bring in staples such as tiles, cement etc for rebuilding. That along with weapons, and ammo too of course. If you think the Palestinians are squeaky clean, you're wrong. Israel has a right to defend itself and will continue the blockade regardless.


----------



## vonGarvin

Irrespective of what they were bringing (to paraphrase, it could have been Sushi).  The Israelis offered to take the stuff into port, inspect it (as per the embargo), and then let everything through that wasn't weaponry, etc.  The blockade runners were doing just that, blockading.  And I agree that cement would meet the criteria of humanitarian aid stuffs.


----------



## Jungle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded


----------



## 1feral1

Now thats a good video  :nod:

The truth thru humour.

Well done for sharing!!!

OWDU


----------



## 57Chevy

What.....What is the idea of that last video?
 To the tune of "we are the world"


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Reasoned discussion people. Watch the pissing matches.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Yrys

Same subject, secong boat (ship?) :

Israeli troops take over Gaza aid ship Rachel Corrie

*MV RACHEL CORRIE* (picture on above link)
    *   Irish-owned, 1,200-tonne cargo ship
    * On board: Five Irish and six Malaysian activists, plus crew
    * Carrying aid, including wheelchairs, paper, medical supplies and cement



Israeli troops say they have taken control of an aid ship trying to 
break the blockade of the Gaza Strip. Israel's military says soldiers 
boarded the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie from the sea and did not 
meet any resistance. It says the ship is now being taken to the 
Israeli port of Ashdod. There has been no word from those on board.

The incident comes five days after nine people were killed in clashes 
when troops boarded a Turkish aid ship, prompting international 
criticism. Israel says it will question those on board at the port and 
transfer the aid to the Gaza Strip by land after checking the cargo 
for banned items.

There are five Irish and six Malaysian pro-Palestinian activists, plus 
several crew, on the boat. The Rachel Corrie is named after a US 
college student who was crushed to death by an Israeli army 
bulldozer as she protested over house demolitions in Gaza in 2003.
Israel has blockaded Gaza since 2007, when the Islamist Hamas 
movement seized control of the territory.

*'Full compliance'*

The 1,200 tonne cargo ship was boarded about 16 nautical miles (30km) 
off the Israeli coast.  An Israeli military spokeswoman said there "was full 
compliance from the crew and passengers on board". The ship had 
previously ignored repeated requests to change course, the Israeli military 
said.

The sea-borne mission has been organised by the Cyprus-based Free Gaza 
Movement, a coalition of pro-Palestinian groups and human rights organisa-
tions. A spokeswoman for the Free Gaza Movement, Greta Berlin, said Israel's 
takeover of the ship was "another outrage to add to the nine murdered", 
the Associated Press news agency reported.

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev accused the group of hypocrisy, 
saying "While they appear to use the language of human rights in, their 
propaganda, it appears they have embraced the [Hamas] regime that has 
no respect for human rights whatsoever," AP said.

The Rachel Corrie is carrying hundreds of tonnes of aid, including wheelchairs, 
medical supplies and cement. Construction materials are banned from entering 
Gaza by Israel, which says they could be used for military purposes by Hamas.

Israel came under fierce criticism after its troops shot dead nine people during 
a violent confrontation with those on board the Turkish Mavi Marmara in the 
early hours of Monday. Israel says its commandos were attacked with weapons, 
including knives, and opened fire in self-defence. Activists on the ship say troops 
shot at them without provocation.


----------



## 57Chevy

Yrys said:
			
		

> Same subject, secong boat (ship?) :
> Israeli troops say they have taken control of an aid ship trying to
> break the blockade of the Gaza Strip. Israel's military says soldiers
> boarded the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie from the sea and did not
> meet any resistance. It says the ship is now being taken to the
> Israeli port of Ashdod.



If it was stirictly humanitarian aid then they should consider going straight to the port of Ashdod.
Humanitarian aid does not try to break blockades. They are supposed to be neutral, like the Red Cross. Activists of any kind should not even be allowed to be on "Aid Ships". And furthermore, if
certains items are disallowed, it should be respected. Where is the cement going now?


----------



## vonGarvin

This wasn't about Humanitarian Aid: this was about breaking the blockade.  Hell, even the ship's name is an insult:
Rachael Corrie:
Teaching the young'uns about tolerance and acceptance:





Bullhorn vs Bulldozer.  My money is on the bulldozer:




I think she slipped:




This is what happens when you're too stupid to walk to the side of a bulldozer.  Unless Isreal has those jet-powered bulldozers now:




It's too bad she had to die.  But people die.  In this case, of terminal stupidity.






Now, I'm not taking sides. If you wish to protest the blockade because you feel it is unjust or whatever, then that's fine.  If you try to run the blockade, international law is on the side of Israel, I'm afriad, so you may as well try to mimic Rachael Corrie and stop bulldozers with your face.


----------



## George Wallace

Here is a different look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg

Not that the people on the ships were quite well prepared to do violence.


----------



## Teeps74

Technoviking said:
			
		

> This wasn't about Humanitarian Aid: this was about breaking the blockade.  Hell, even the ship's name is an insult:
> Rachael Corrie:
> Teaching the young'uns about tolerance and acceptance:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullhorn vs Bulldozer.  My money is on the bulldozer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think she slipped:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you're too stupid to walk to the side of a bulldozer.  Unless Isreal has those jet-powered bulldozers now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's too bad she had to die.  But people die.  In this case, of terminal stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I'm not taking sides. If you wish to protest the blockade because you feel it is unjust or whatever, then that's fine.  If you try to run the blockade, international law is on the side of Israel, I'm afriad, so you may as well try to mimic Rachael Corrie and stop bulldozers with your face.



To be blunt. Ms Corrie was murdered. Much like Maj Hess Von Krudener.

Not to take sides, but pointing out facts.


----------



## vonGarvin

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> To be blunt. Ms Corrie was murdered. Much like Maj Hess Von Krudener.


She died of terminal stupidity.  My 9 year old can outrun a bulldozer, and has the wits to not stand in front of one.  

It is a false dichotomy to assert that Maj HVK's death was anything like that of Ms Corrie's.  You may as well say that Claus von Stauffenberg was also murdered.  So was John Lennon.


----------



## Teeps74

Technoviking said:
			
		

> She died of terminal stupidity.  My 9 year old can outrun a bulldozer, and has the wits to not stand in front of one.
> 
> It is a false dichotomy to assert that Maj HVK's death was anything like that of Ms Corrie's.  You may as well say that Claus von Stauffenberg was also murdered.  So was John Lennon.



Utter BS and you know it. What was stupid was the IDF "winning" the hearts and minds by running over a girl, with a blow horn and wearing a pointer vest. It was murder, no different then using precision munitions to bomb a white painted UN OP.

The IDF have absolutely nothing to teach us other then how NOT to win an insurgency battle.


----------



## bdave

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> We can't forget there was lots of clubs, knives, sling shots and an angry mob of pro HAMAS supporters with open agendas. Who knows what real contraband was on board, and that will come out in time.



I guess since their goal was to break the blockade, they figured they would need some sort of defense.
They could have also figured, given Israel's rap sheet, that they would be attacked.
In either case, the only purpose of my post was to explain why concrete is a humanitarian aid.



			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Real peaceful people on a mission of peace for/with humitarian aid would have allowed all vessels to be boarded (EDITs to add without incident) and the cargo inspected before released. Thus allowing for the aid to be delivered to those who need it ASAP after clearance. That make sense to me.


I read that most of the vessels were O.K. with letting Israel  commandos board.
It was only one or two that refused to be boarded.
All things aside, these commandos must not be very smart if they're going to rappel into a crowd holding sticks and knives.
Almost like they did it on purpose.




			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Too bad you did not include the pics of Palestinians moving the same smashed corpses from bombsite to bombsite. All for propaganda pics, just like the whole flotilla was - propaganda for their cause.


Can you back this up? 
The propaganda pics and articles will pop up on both sides. Everyone always tries to manipulate the situation in their favor.
Israel does this too. Is the body count of 1000 civilians in the Gaza War also propaganda? Whether these bodies were moved or not, is again, a moot point. The reality of the pictures is what I think is most important. 
The fact of the matter is: a lot of people died.



			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> As for being bomb damage here is what muslims did to each other in Baghdad. http://www.youtube.com/user/1feral1#p/a/u/1/z35MEEBu1-U This is a video I took moments after a huge SVBIED (dump truck) about 1500 metres from our location. 69 killed in that one alone, and the other smaller one killed 26.


My, grandmother, what a large brush you have!
What does that have to do with the situation in Palestine?



			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> My definition of a bleeding heart is someone who is sympathetic towards the enemy or their cause.



Has Hamas attacked Canada?
You will have to elaborate on your statement because I honestly do not know.
I do not support Hamas. I support the civilians. One of my Palestinian friends had some of her younger family killed. We're talking about 10 year old kids, here. Nothing ever justifies that. Bombing schools and hospitals to "defend yourself" is bullshit. It violates the 4th Geneva Convention that Israel is signatory to and highly immoral.



			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> The over 600 tunnels from Egypt bring in staples such as tiles, cement etc for rebuilding. That along with weapons, and ammo too of course. If you think the Palestinians are squeaky clean, you're wrong. Israel has a right to defend itself and will continue the blockade regardless.


The over 600 tunnels from Egypt probably do not bring enough concrete for rebuilding.
Sources online say that even now, a year after the Gaza War has ended, only 25 percent of the damage has been rebuilt.
Concerning Hamas being squeaky clean: Never ever said that. 
I know very well that Hamas is not squeaky clean. 
I will say this, though: during the American Revolutionary War, the then to be United States of America considered themselves freedom fighters, and were considered terrorists by the British.
I see the situation as very similar. Both will fight for their beliefs. The Palestinians/Hamas do not want to be oppressed and controlled by Israel. Israel wants to keep Palestine but does not want to be attacked.

Israel has a right to defend itself, but Palestine does too. No arguments there. 

Some sources:
http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_situation_report_2009_01_02_english.pdf
http://www.ochaopt.org/gazacrisis/admin/output/files/ocha_opt_who_gaza_situation_report_2009_02_04_english.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/01/gaza-food-crisis

Good post, Overwatch Downunder.


----------



## Haletown

"The over 600 tunnels from Egypt probably do not bring enough concrete for rebuilding.
Sources online say that even now, a year after the Gaza War has ended, only 25 percent of the damage has been rebuilt."

So if they are so short of concrete in Gaza, where'd they get the materials to build the recently opened Olympic sized swimming pool?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html

Pretty slick looking  facility . . .   a nice slum they live in.


Or maybe Hamas, the same jihadis who fire mortars and rockets from schools and hospitals and who use human hostages . . . aka their own civilians, as shields, just won't let  these civilians rebuild because they are useful propaganda tools.

Seems to help build the tourism business and fill the seats in those nice restaurants in Gaza City.

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html


I'm sure Hamas is suitably taxing those restaurants and suing the proceeds to build schools and hospitals to assist their people, instead of buying weapons that they can use to murder Israeli civilians.


----------



## bdave

Haletown said:
			
		

> "The over 600 tunnels from Egypt probably do not bring enough concrete for rebuilding.
> Sources online say that even now, a year after the Gaza War has ended, only 25 percent of the damage has been rebuilt."
> 
> So if they are so short of concrete in Gaza, where'd they get the materials to build the recently opened Olympic sized swimming pool?
> 
> http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html
> 
> Pretty slick looking  facility . . .   a nice slum they live in.
> 
> 
> Or maybe Hamas, the same jihadis who fire mortars and rockets from schools and hospitals and who use human hostages . . . aka their own civilians, as shields, just won't let  these civilians rebuild because they are useful propaganda tools.
> 
> Seems to help build the tourism business and fill the seats in those nice restaurants in Gaza City.
> 
> http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html
> 
> 
> I'm sure Hamas is suitably taxing those restaurants and suing the proceeds to build schools and hospitals to assist their people, instead of buying weapons that they can use to murder Israeli civilians.



 :rofl:
I don't understand your post.
If someone bombs Quebec City, would you then go and show me pictures of Montreal going 'Oh, look, the Olympic Stadium is fine"?
I imagine an Olympic pool with a facility of that complexity and magnitude would take a couple of years to plan and build. I'm sure it wasn't built overnight while the Gaza War was going on.
What this has to do with the fact that Israel did indeed destroy several thousands homes and that they [the Palestinians] do not have the required material to rebuild everything is beyond me.

If every Palestinian home lay in ruins and all Palestinians were clutching their bloody stumps it would be believable; the moment they have one nice thing, they must obviously be liars!

You are grasping at straws here.


Final thing,
http://*israelmatzav*.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html
Totally unbiased, I'm sure.


----------



## bdave

I need to clarify something.
I am not anti Israel or Anti Jew or anything along those lines.
I have many Jewish friends. I have Israeli friends.
One of my closest friends' family member is an officer in the Israeli forces. I have met and spoke with him. He is a nice person.

I am on this board to discuss things. I am not here to push my agenda or to burn bridges. I just want people to justify their words so that I may better understand the situation, better understand their thoughts and learn. I am here to pick the brains of those much more experienced than I. 

I mentioned before that I am playing devil's advocate here, and that I completely understand and agree with Israel concerning the flotilla.
I noticed that (in part my fault), the discussion has moved from the flotilla to the Palestinian condition.
Ironically, I fully believe that the flotilla was not there to necessarily bring aid but to bring attention to Palestine's condition and make Israel look bad. They have succeeded.


----------



## 1feral1

bdave said:
			
		

> I need to clarify something.
> I am not anti Israel or Anti Jew or anything along those lines.



Its okay Dave to be sympathetic to the enemy, we all can have opinions. Your agenda has been made obvious throughout this entire thread, so no need to cover up or explain. That 'I have friends who are Israeli... and he is a nice guy' made me laugh on this chilly and crisp winter's morning. 

My SVBIED video was to demonstrate the damage muslims can do to each other. In Palestine when they can't fight Israel, they have a go at each other internally. There will never be peace in that region, they're nothing but savages IMHO, hatred and violence run as deep there was hockey and pancakes in Canada.

Some links....

 http://www.think-israel.org/mcleod.greenhelmetguy.html

This one is from this site, and has more info on the bodies used for propaganda, fill your boots reading it. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47186/post-421339.html#msg421339

Although you're only 22 and have no life experience, don't be so bloody niave. Talk is cheap Dave.

http://www.viciousbabushka.com/2009/08/get-the-popcorn-hamas-al-qaeda-kill-each-other-in-gaza.html

Feast your eyes on this one Dave, maybe it will wake you up to who you are supporting http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=1883 as you live in the safety of your living room. This is what you're dealing with over there Dave.

I'll sum up by saying WAR is truly the worst ever four lettered word, people die, bads guys, and the innocent, just like the over 40,0000 citizens of England who were killed in the Blitz, or the 10s of thousands killed by us in Dresden in one night, and that was deliberate! 

In modern warfare we try to minimize civilian casualties, and warn in advance often, so the innocent can leave. Israel did infact warn the public in 2006. Even on my tour, unarmed people were shot and killed due to circumstances beyond our control. Our Combat Team even made the headlines in Stars and Stripes for one such incident, and thats nothing to be proud of. War is war, people die.

If criticising the good guys makes you and your Palestinian friends feel better, all the power to you, afterall we live in a democracy.

Time for some pancakes, I am hungry.

Regards,

OWDU


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

bdave said:
			
		

> I need to clarify something.
> I am not anti Israel or Anti Jew or anything along those lines.
> I have many Jewish friends. I have Israeli friends.
> One of my closest friends' family member is an officer in the Israeli forces. I have met and spoke with him. He is a nice person.



To my knowledge I have no Jewish friends (backwoods Alberta) etc. etc. etc.  The people of Gaza have chosen to go to war with Israel.  The government of Gaza, supported by the people, is firing on Israel on a daily basis.  It is thoroughly ridiculous that those who would wage war cry like babies when their war produces consequences.  

Part of the problem is caused by Israel in that it has never handed its enemies a thorough enough thrashing that they beg for peace.  It worked for us on Germany and Japan.  Until that day comes my grandkids will be watching similar newscasts in their old age.


----------



## 57Chevy

Hundreds protest at anti-Israeli rallies across Canada:

MONTREAL — Hundreds of protesters turned out for rallies across Canada on Saturday to demonstrate against Israel’s blockade of Gaza, which has been thrust back into the international spotlight by the Israeli military’s deadly raid on a humanitarian aid flotilla.

In Montreal, a crowd of hundreds marching peacefully but boisterously carried placards with slogans such as “Boycott Israel” and “I am ashamed to live in the country that calls itself the best friend of Israel.”

It was one of several Canadian protests — with events planned in Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Victoria — in addition to much larger demonstrations in Europe, which drew crowds of thousands.

Nine people were killed this week when Israel used military force on a ship in an aid convoy headed for the Gaza Strip. 

Israel has said its soldiers were defending themselves, but the event has ignited international outrage. The slaying of the nine people, many of them Turks, prompted Turkey to recall its ambassador to Tel Aviv and cancel joint military exercises with the Jewish state.

The Israeli blockade has been in effect for four years, ostensibly to stop the Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip from bolstering their arsenal to fight the Jewish state.

However critics have said the blockade goes too far, pointing out the inclusion of such seemingly innocuous objects as chocolate.

On Saturday, Israel peacefully boarded another ship trying to defy its blockade of Gaza, taking the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie back to dock in Israel.

“We woke up this morning to the bad news that Israel has not learned from what happened last Monday,” said Laith Marouf, one of the protest organizers in Montreal. “The Rachel Corrie didn’t make it, but the next flotilla will be much bigger, with 50, 60 or 100 ships.”

Organizers called on Canada and Quebec to send an aid ship in the next aid flotilla to Gaza.


Stacey Miller brought her four-year-old daughter along to the Montreal protest.

“I’m here because I’m horrified by the attack on the Freedom Flotilla and the killing of humanitarian aid workers,” she said, adding she hopes media coverage of protests around the world will show the people of Gaza they are not alone.

The Canadian government has not condemned Israel for its raids, but has said it supports a prompt, impartial inquiry into the deadly events of earlier in the week.

In Europe, tens of thousands of people demonstrated Saturday.

Angry protesters chanting anti-Israeli slogans and waving Palestinian and Turkish flags took to the streets of Istanbul, London, Dublin and Paris as well as a string of other French cities.

Demonstrators branded Israel a “murderer,” demanded that it lift its blockade.

In France, over 20,000 people, including 5,000 in Paris, vented their anger at Israel’s handling of the aid flotilla, police said.

Montreal Gazette

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Hundreds+protest+anti+Israeli+rallies+Montreal+Toronto/3117865/story.html#ixzz0q2147Vui


----------



## 57Chevy

57Chevy said:
			
		

> “We woke up this morning to the bad news that Israel has not learned from what happened last Monday,” said Laith Marouf, one of the protest organizers in Montreal. “The Rachel Corrie didn’t make it, but the next flotilla will be much bigger, with 50, 60 or 100 ships.”



The Rachel Corrie is docked in the port of Ashdod:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0605/breaking1.html

PAMELA NEWENHAM

Irish-Malaysian vessel the MV Rachel Corrie  has been escorted into the Israeli port of Ashdod after being seized by troops close to the Gaza shore this morning.

The passengers aboard the humanitarian ship, which was intercepted by Israeli troops 25 miles outside Gaza, have been taken to Holon detention centre according to the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

Former UN assistant secretary general Denis Halliday and Nobel peace laureate Mairéad Maguire were among the Irish citizens on board the 1,200-tonne ship, which was shadowed by Israeli ships since dawn.

The crew  had rejected a deal to unload its cargo in Israel and accompany it across the border.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay today said Israel's blockade of Gaza was illegal and should be lifted, reiterating calls for an investigation into Israel's raid on aid supply ships this week.

"International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and...it is also prohibited to impose collective punishment on civilians," Ms Pillay said.

"I have consistently reported to member states that the blockade is illegal and must be lifted."

She said that even if the blockade were proven legal under international law, Israel's military operation against the flotilla on Monday had to be analysed alongside its obligation to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza.

Earlier this morning, activists aboard the vessel said its equipment on board had been jammed, blaming the Israeli Defence Force (IDF).

In a statement issued by the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Jenny Graham, who is on board, said the ship would have no part in a deal that involved legitimising the siege of Gaza.

"We intend to continue on our mission to deliver our cargo of aid and supplies to the people of Gaza. This has always been our intention," she added.

A demonstration took place in Dublin city centre today at which some of those involved in the flotilla spoke. The protesters marched from the Garden of Remembrance where there was a symbolic wreath laying by Turan Centiner, Turkish consul to Ireland  to the Department of Foreign affairs.


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

57Chevy said:
			
		

> "International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and...



I imagine cement leaves a nasty aftertaste.  Brings a whole new meaning to defecating bricks.


----------



## 57Chevy

I would still like to know what happens to all that cement, seeing that it made up half of the cargo of
the Mari Marmara. I noted in some of the posted videos that neither "community" has the real need
of that particular comodity. And obviously they must have known that it is disallowed. So, who gets the cement? Is it sent back? Or does Isreal take ownership?
And then there is that video of the corrupted version of "We are the world". Stating how they duped everyone. What does that mean? Is there a hidden agenda? Is there something hidden in all that cement?
As bdave said, "like they did it on purpose". Maybe they did.
And now its all blown out of proportion on the world stage.
I wonder.
My  :2c:


----------



## CougarKing

57Chevy said:
			
		

> I would still like to know what happens to all that cement



Why is everyone on this thread so fixated on the CEMENT all the sudden?  ;D


----------



## 1feral1

I thought cement would be low on the priority, but Israel has banned this as it can be used for military purposes, and thats fair enough, and considering HAMAS's track record this is to be expected.

This and other contraband do make it through the tunnels, which are more complex in size, construction and configurment than one can think. Some are huge, even with electricilty throughout the length. I watched a special on Australian 60 Minutes recently, and I was suprised what they were bringing through them. You name it, they got it in.

OWDU

EDITed for spelling


----------



## The Bread Guy

....maybe to prove how Muslim it is?


> Some philanthropist with wake conscious had organized the launching of flotilla of liberation with the support of the Muslim nation of Turkey. The aim was to show a humanitarian and moral sympathy with the oppressed Muslims of the Gaza Strip and thus end the four-year long sea blockade by the invading Zionist forces. But the Zionist invaders brutally attacked the flotilla which was showing sympathy (with Gaza Muslims) before its arrival at the destination, ironically at a time when many passengers aboard were performing early morning prayers.
> 
> The Israeli brutal forces first laid siege to six boats of the flotilla of liberation with the help of hundreds of military boats and helicopters. Then (Israeli) commandos and marines launched brutal attack, killing armless civilians on the deck of the flotilla and injuring 52 others. This barbaric, inhuman and immoral attack of the Zionists on the envoys of peace and sympathy violate all Divine and human laws. There is no instance of such events in any other culture except in the (distinctive) culture of Zionism based on bestiality ....



Full statement here or in PDF at non-terrorist site here.


----------



## Jungle

All, consider the situation in Gaza:

The Roots Club: http://www.rootsclub.ps/index.php

An olympic-sized swimming pool was inaugurated in Gaza last month: http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/olympic-swimming-pool-opens-in-gaza.html

This is a page from the Palestinian News Agency _Palestine Today_: http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

I don't see much suffering and starvation...


----------



## observor 69

Reproduced under the Fair Comment provisions of the Copyright Act:

LINK


Worse than a crime   
      By Gwynne Dyer ,  Posted on » Thursday, June 03, 2010

 The remark was originally made about Napoleon's decision to kidnap the Duc d'Enghien and have him judicially murdered more than two centuries ago: "It was worse than a crime; it was a blunder." It is often quoted when a government makes a decision, usually involving violence, that obviously harms its own cause. Like, for example, Israel's decision to seize the flotilla of ships bringing aid to the besieged Palestinians of the Gaza Strip.

Imagine that you are the Israeli official charged with recommending the best course of action for dealing with that flotilla. Exactly what position you hold in the government doesn't matter: somebody will have been given that job. So what things will you consider while you ponder your recommendation?

You are well aware that the purpose of the flotilla is mainly propaganda: to highlight the suffering of ordinary Palestinians as a result of Israel's three-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. Some of the organisers doubtless hope that Israel will use violence against the aid ships, as that would give them even more publicity, but they'll settle for just delivering the aid.

Israeli intelligence has its agents among the people organising the flotilla, of course, so you know that there is nothing dangerous in the 10,000 tonnes of cargo. Most of it is concrete and steel to help in the reconstruction of homes and schools destroyed during Israel's "Cast Lead" operation against Hamas militants in the Strip early last year.

Anyway, be realistic: there's all sorts of contraband coming into the Gaza Strip all the time through the tunnels on the Egyptian border. Why don't we just wave these ships through as a "humanitarian gesture"? That will spoil their little propaganda game, and they haven't the resources to do it twice.

True, our military guys say that they can just arrest all the ships en route and take them to one of our own ports in Israel: no muss, no fuss. But what if it goes wrong? We've had one propaganda disaster after another recently, and it's starting to do real damage.

Operation "Cast Lead" was not exactly a propaganda success: even our own official figures say we killed more than 400 Palestinian civilians, and most people outside Israel think the number was closer to 1,000. Then there was that unfortunate announcement about building more Jewish homes in East Jerusalem while US Vice-President Joe Biden was in the country: President Obama hasn't really been speaking to us much since that.

Just last week we had a really damaging revelation about how Israel offered to sell nuclear weapons to South Africa back in the apartheid days. And now we have this flotilla thing, just as Obama has finally invited Prime Minister Netanyahu to Washington for a kiss-and-make-up session. Oh, and most of the people on the flotilla come from Turkey, the one Muslim country that sees Israel as an ally.

Do we really want to risk screwing all that up just to starve the Palestinians of an extra 10,000 tonnes of supplies? Let's just allow the flotilla through, and get the credit for being reasonable and even magnanimous.

I presume that the above is a fair representation of what went through the Israeli official's head as he or she considered what to do about the aid flotilla. But in the end, the decision went the other way. Why? Probably just because Israeli reflexes kicked in: an early resort to force has become the government's default mode of problem-solving in recent years.

So people said things like "We mustn't look weak" and "What could possibly go wrong?", and Israel launched the military operation we saw on Monday, with the results we know: at least 10 dead civilians, another propaganda disaster, and its alliance with Turkey in ruins.

Israeli spin-doctors try to shift the blame to the victims, but they cannot get around the fact that their heavily armed troops illegally boarded a foreign ship in international waters, and that those troops then killed at least nine foreign civilians and wounded about 30 others. Just one Israeli soldier was seriously injured, though nine others apparently suffered scraped knuckles and bloody noses.

Do the Israeli spokespersons even understand that any professional army in the West that carried out such a botched and bloody operation would immediately suspend the commanders responsible and launch a major investigation? No, probably not. They have lost all perspective on themselves.


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Why is everyone on this thread so fixated on the CEMENT all the sudden?  ;D




Because apparently people are starving, or so we're told, and what do they want to bring in? Cement.


----------



## Trinity

Interesting video of supplies being inspected.  Doesn't look like food to me.

http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928

I can't verify it since I don't speak Yiddish.


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Reproduced under the Fair Comment provisions of the Copyright Act:
> 
> LINK
> 
> 
> Worse than a crime
> By Gwynne Dyer ,  Posted on » Thursday, June 03, 2010
> 
> Why? Probably just because Israeli reflexes kicked in: an early resort to force has become the government's default mode of problem-solving in recent years.



It sure is lucky that the UK and France didn't take early military action with the Rhineland, Austria, the Sudetenland, and Czeckoslovakia.  Then we might have missed WWII.  Maybe Gwynne could use some Viagra in his old age.


----------



## Journeyman

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Israeli intelligence has its agents among the people organising the flotilla, of course, so you know that there is nothing dangerous in the 10,000 tonnes of cargo.


 While Mossad certainly benefits from having a reputation of omnipresence, Dyer's unsubstantiated assertion may be a bit of a stretch.


----------



## GAP

Trinity said:
			
		

> Interesting video of supplies being inspected.  Doesn't look like food to me.
> 
> http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928
> 
> I can't verify it since I don't speak Yiddish.



You don't need to speak Yiddish to understand what they are unloading......


Watch the sheep bleat that the Israeli's staged it.....sure did...they showed what the "peace activists" were shipping...


----------



## 57Chevy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0605/breaking1.htmlTEHRAN - Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.

"Iran's Revolutionary Guards naval forces are fully prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities," Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.

Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel which accuses Iran of supplying weapons to Hamas, the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.
            ___________________________________________________________

More to read on the link.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Perhaps you are all unaware, but recent developments in the building trades have revealed that mortars, 106mm rounds and the like, are ideal for expedited excavation of basements for large structures such as schools and hospitals.  Honestly, guys, this conspiracy theory is beneath you all.


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel resumes supplying building materials to two Gaza projects http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-06/06/c_13336096.htm

GAZA, June 6 (Xinhua) -- Israel on Sunday reopened commercial crossing points with Gaza after weekend's brief closure, allowing construction materials into Gaza for two projects carried out by international organizations, a Palestinian official said.

From 95 to 105 truckloads are scheduled to enter Gaza today through Kerem Shalom crossing in southeast Gaza Strip, said Ra'ed Fattouh, a liaison official.

The majority of the trucks carry food and fruits. Cement, iron and gravel will also be entering to go for a major housing project the United Nations is building in Khan Younis city and for the rebuilding of Al-Quds hospital which was badly damaged during Israel's war here last year.

In March, the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon visited the location of the housing project and called on Israel to let materials in to resume the project after three years of suspension. As for the hospital, which is run by the Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRC)'s hospital, France, which funds the reconstruction, pressed Israel to allow the materials for the hospital.

Israel has barred raw materials as part of its blockade since June 2007 in a bid to weaken Islamic Hamas movement which took over Gaza that year.

The shipments to the two projects, that began arriving last month, were the biggest amounts to be delivered since the end of Israel's Operation Cast Lead in January 2009. Tens of thousands of houses, factories, workshops and governmental buildings were destroyed or damaged in the three-week offensive.

In an interview with Xinhua last week, an official from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) said that 50,000 people from the refugees that the UNRWA sponsors became homeless and the agency still unable to repair their houses or rebuild the destroyed ones due to the lack of construction materials


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel rejects international inquiry into lethal raid:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Israel+rejects+international+inquiry+into+lethal+raid/3119475/story.html


----------



## Haletown

hmmm so Hamas has building resources & options enough to build Olympic sized pools, restaurants etc, while thousands of their own people are said to be homeless.

So maybe Hamas is doing it on purpose for anti-Israeli propaganda.

Or maybe Gazans are homeless because Hamas is destroying their houses.

"Hamas destroys dozens of homes in Gaza

Strip's rulers say buildings knocked down with bulldozers were constructed illegally on government land. 'They promised reform and change – instead they've destroyed our homes," shouts newly homeless resident

Associated Press
Published: 	05.17.10, 00:07 / Israel News

Hamas police wielding clubs beat and pushed residents out of dozens of homes in the southern Gaza town of Rafah on Sunday before knocking the buildings down with bulldozers, residents said.



Gaza's militant Hamas rulers said the homes were built illegally on government land. Newly homeless residents were furious over Palestinians on bulldozers razing Palestinian homes. "

Hamas . . .  the government the Gazans voted for.

Life's a bitch when it is a self inflicted wound.


----------



## tomahawk6

Is Israel prepared to fire on Turkish warships that are trying to force a bloackade ? NATO's only muslim nation seems to have thrown its lot in with Iran and Syria. Would other NATO countries come to their aid against Israel ? If so the destruction of Israel is not far off.


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Is Israel prepared to fire on Turkish warships that are trying to force a bloackade ? NATO's only muslim nation seems to have thrown its lot in with Iran and Syria. Would other NATO countries come to their aid against Israel ? If so the destruction of Israel is not far off.



One last look before it's cinders. 







 Israel isn't going down alone.


----------



## 57Chevy

Technoviking said:
			
		

> This wasn't about Humanitarian Aid: this was about breaking the blockade.



Exactly. And that is where the true crime is. Molding "Aid and Breaking" together.
They simply use the "Humanitarian" terminology as a lever to gather sympathy on the world stage.
There is absolutely nothing humanitarian in trying to break a blockade. After this ordeal, they should
have the decency of sending all other shipments to the designated port,where they can liase with the
competant UN authority in the true spirit of humanitarianism.


----------



## 57Chevy

Israeli patrol kills 4 militants in diving gear:

GAZA - An Israeli naval patrol killed at least four Palestinian militants in diving gear off the Gaza coast on Monday, Hamas security officials and the Israeli army said, and Israel claimed it had thwarted a planned attack.


"An Israeli naval patrol spotted a boat with four men in diving suits on their way to carry out a terror attack and fired at them," an Israeli army spokesman said, adding that the patrol had confirmed hitting its targets.


The spokesman did not say what the army thought was the intended objective of the divers.


Hamas security sources said four bodies had been found and a fifth man was missing and was presumed dead.


The incident comes eight days after Israeli marines killed nine Turks on the deck of a Turkish passenger ship which was part of a six-vessel convoy that set out to challenge a Israeli-led blockade of the Gaza Strip.


A second attempt by activists to break the blockade on Gaza was stopped on Saturday without incident.


Israeli media said Monday's sea patrol was carried out by naval commandos from the same unit that boarded the Gaza-bound ships last week although the military spokesman declined to comment on this.


In a second incident in the Gaza Strip on Monday, Hamas security and medical officials said an Israeli aircraft fired a missile at a group of militants in an open area near Gaza City, seriously wounding one man.


The Israeli army spokesman declined to comment but said he was checking details of the report.


Palestinian militants in Gaza frequently try to attack Israeli border patrols and sporadically fire rockets and mortar bombs at Israel. Attempts to attack from the sea are rare, however.


In February, Palestinian militant groups in Gaza sent explosive devices, thought to be primitive sea mines, out to sea intending to hit naval vessels. At least three devices washed up on Israeli beaches and were detonated by sappers.

© Copyright (c) Reuters


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Israeli+patrol+kills+militants+diving+gear/3121213/story.html#ixzz0qACpboEY


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from the IDF - highlights mine:


> The following passengers on board the Mavi Marmara are known to be involved in terrorist activity. The Mavi Marmara attempted to break the maritime closure on the Gaza Strip on Monday, May 31st 2010, and was boarded by Israel Navy forces.
> 
> *Fatimah Mahmadi (born 1979), is a United States resident of Iranian origin, and an active member of the organization "Viva Palestine",  she attempted to smuggle forbidden electronic components into the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Ken O'Keefe (Born 1969), an American and British citizen, is a radical anti-Israel activist and operative of the Hamas Terror organization. He attempted to enter the Gaza Strip in order to form and train a commando unit for the Palestinian terror organization.
> 
> Hassan Iynasi (born 1982), a Turkish citizen and activist  in a Turkish charity organization, is known of providing financial support to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terror organization.
> 
> Hussein Urosh, a Turkish citizen and activist in the IHH organization, was on his way to the Gaza Strip in order to assist in smuggling Al-Qaeda operatives via Turkey into the Strip.
> 
> Ahmad Umimon (born 1959), is a French citizen of Moroccan origin, and an operative of the Hamas Terrorist organization.*


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel to conduct own probe of Gaza ship raid

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Israel+conduct+probe+Gaza+ship+raid/3122140/story.html#ixzz0qCpDUkPz


JERUSALEM - Israel said on Monday it would investigate a deadly raid on a Gaza aid flotilla on its own, after rejecting a UN proposal for an international probe.


Defence Minister Ehud Barak told Israel's Parliament in response to a no-confidence motion over the May 31 raid which lawmakers later rejected, that "we intend to carry out an investigation of the events."


Barak gave no details of the format of such a probe, which Israeli media reports said was still being worked out, partly in co-ordination with Washington to ensure it would satisfy Western demands for a look at how nine were killed in the raid.


State-owned Channel One television said members of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's senior cabinet forum wished to avoid naming a full-fledged inquiry commission as Israel has done after past crises.


Barak suggested Israel was also looking at ways to amend its four-year blockade on the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, though it was intent to maintain restrictions it sees as essential to preventing Iranian missiles from reaching the Palestinian territory.


He said the probe Israel was planning would be in addition to a separate military investigation, and would seek to establish whether Israel's blockade of Gaza and its raid "met with the standards of international law".


"We will draw lessons at the political level, (and) in the security establishment," Barak said.


'MOUNTAINS OF QUESTIONS'


"Since the event, we have heard and read mountains of talk and questions and without a doubt in the coming months we shall discuss lessons . . . perhaps additional ways to achieve the same goals of the blockade, by reducing as far as possible the potential for friction," he added.


Barak rejected Western criticism that the Gaza blockade was creating any hardship in the coastal zone packed with 1.5 million people. "There is no humanitarian crisis or hunger in Gaza," he said.


In moving no confidence, former Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni, head of the centrist Kadima party, said Netanyahu's government wasn't acting swiftly enough to probe the raid, and was following a "dangerous course" that increasingly isolated Israel diplomatically.


British Foreign Secretary William Hague suggested the quartet of Middle East peace negotiators could play a role in any inquiry and that the UN was not the only option.


"It's very important that an inquiry is established with an international presence," Hague told a news conference in Rome.


Hague's Italian counterpart, Foreign Minister Franco Frattini, said Italy had proposed having observers appointed by the quartet — which comprises the United States, the European Union, United Nations and Russia — involved in the probe.


In further Israeli fallout over the flotilla, a parliamentary panel voted to remove diplomatic privileges from an Israeli Arab lawmaker who rode one of the ships, a motion that still requires a full plenum vote before taking effect.

© Copyright (c) Reuters


----------



## 57Chevy

Anti-Israel rallies draw tens of thousands in Europe

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Anti+Israel+rallies+draw+tens+thousands+Europe/3118795/story.html#ixzz0qE9m9Taz


----------



## 57Chevy

Several hundred show support for Israel

MONTREAL - Several hundred people were present on the plaza of Westmount Square at lunch Monday to show solidarity with Israel in light of recent condemnations of the recent violent blockade incident.

On May 31, nine activists on board a boat that claimed to be bringing aid to Gaza were killed when Israeli commandos stormed the vessel.

Video tapes have shown a fierce battle on board. Israel maintains the activists on board attacked the soldiers with knives and metal bars.

Many countries have made public statements that Israel used excessive force in the raid.

Monday's gathering of Montrealers standing behind the government was held in front of the General Consulate of Israel and attracted supporters of all ages, from students of the Hebrew Academy all the way to seniors with canes.

With flags flapping in a stiff breeze, the crowd listened to speakers like Mount Royal MP Irwin Cotler, who reminded the assembled that the cause of Israel "is not a just a Jewish cause but a just cause."

Wearing her Star of David flag like a cape, Goreth Xethalis was adamant that the flotilla incident was a clear case of "Israel defending itself."

"If this happened in Canada and Canada's waters were invaded ... well there's a double standard," said Xethalis.

Trevor Reef came to the rally to show his "solid support" for Israel.

"Israel wants peace and is always at the forefront of human rights and there is a double standard in the world (about Israel) that doesn't go away," Reef said.

"We are pacifists but we will continue to defend ourselves, because if we don't stand for ourselves, no one else will do it," Xethalis said.

"The main message here today is that people stand with Israel and those who seek to pursue peace," Cotler said shortly after the rally broke up.


© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Several+hundred+show+support+Israel/3123655/story.html#ixzz0qEAsO6Sr


----------



## 57Chevy

Regional countries condemn Israel over deadly ship raid

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Mideast+condemn+Israel+over+deadly+ship+raid/3127754/story.html#ixzz0qIg2Cud4

And also:

Israelis to consider British plan to ease blockade of Gaza

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Israelis+consider+British+plan+ease+blockade+Gaza/3127925/story.html#ixzz0qIgX8CPe


----------



## GAP

Reuters Admits Cropping Photos of Ship Clash, Denies Political Motive
By Ed Barnes Published June 08, 2010
Article Link

The British-based Reuters news agency has been stung for the second time by charges that it edited politically sensitive photos in a way that casts Israel in a bad light. But this time Reuters claims it wasn’t at fault.

The news agency reacted to questions raised by an American blogger who showed that Reuters' photo service edited out knives and blood traces from pictures taken aboard the activist ship Mavi Marmara during a clash with Israeli commandos last week. Nine people were killed and scores were injured in the clash. 

The pictures of the fight were released by IHH, the Turkish-based group that sponsored the six-ship fleet that tried to break Israel's blockade of Gaza.

In one photo, an Israeli commando is shown lying on the deck of the ship, surrounded by activists. The uncut photo released by IHH shows the hand of an unidentified activist holding a knife. But in the Reuters photo, the hand is visible but the knife has been edited out.

The blog “Little Green Footballs” challenged Reuters' editing of the photo.

“That’s a very interesting way to crop the photo. Most people would consider that knife an important part of the context. There was a huge controversy over whether the activists were armed. Cropping out a knife, in a picture showing a soldier who’s apparently been stabbed, seems like a very odd editorial decision. Unless someone was trying to hide it,” the blog stated.

In a second photo the unedited print issued by IHH showed blood along the ship's railing and a hand holding a knife as an Israeli soldier lies on the deck. Both the blood and the knife were missing in the photo that Reuters released.
More on link


----------



## 57Chevy

Syrian envoy's attack on Israel threatens to foil U.S. diplomatic drive

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Syrian+envoy+attack+Israel+threatens+diplomacy/3128173/story.html#ixzz0qJb3Kfr2

UNITED NATIONS — Syria on Tuesday accused Israel of indoctrinating its children with hatred towards Arabs, telling the United Nations Human Rights Council that Israeli youngsters sing about sucking Arab blood, and learn how to sign missiles destined for military activity against Arabs.


The tirade, delivered by Syrian diplomat Rania Al Rifaiy, was part of a Syrian appeal at the world body for countries to unite behind a campaign to "put an end to Israeli brutality."


It came as Turkey sought a fresh condemnation of Israel over its deadly raid on Gaza-bound aid ships last week and hosted Syria and other regional leaders in Istanbul to discuss security in the region.


Presidents Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, Bashar al-Assad of Syria and Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, as well as Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas attended the gathering, which ended with a call on Israel to end its "inhuman" blockade of the Palestinian territory.


The emerging ties among the regional powers in opposition to Israel pose a new problem for the United States — even as Washington and other UN Security Council powers said Tuesday they were set to vote on a resolution that would impose a fourth round of UN sanctions on Iran because of its nuclear program.


As recently as February, U.S. President Barack Obama moved to strengthen U.S. ties with Syria as part of an effort to drive a wedge between the Arab country and Iran, which Washington, Ottawa and others say is trying to build a nuclear bomb.


As U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates said the expected passage Wednesday of the resolution would provide a springboard for individual countries to take their own tougher measures against Tehran for refusing to halt uranium enrichment,


Iran, in response, warned its close trading partner Russia against joining western nations in backing the new punitive measures.


The UN launched the Human Rights Council in 2006 to replace another UN rights body in Geneva that countries with poor human rights records had come to dominate.


Israel is predicted to face a new barrage of criticism at the council next week as Richard Falk, UN special rapporteur on Palestinian issues, presents a controversial report on alleged Israeli actions in the Palestinian territories.


Ironically, the Palestinian Authority, which represents Palestinians in the West Bank, has reportedly called for Falk to step down. According to Falk, the PA says he is a "partisan of Hamas."


"Richard Falk is a fruitcake who promotes the conspiracy theory that the U.S. government was behind the September 11, 2001 attacks," said Hillel Neuer, UN Watch executive director, said of the U.S. professor of international law at Princeton University.


While Syria's statement went unchallenged Tuesday, the council president interjected when Canada used the word "regime" in a statement condemning of human rights abuses in Canada's version of an "axis of evil:" Iran, Myanmar and North Korea.


The official told council members "not to use such language" when referring to UN member states, reported a note-taker with the Geneva-based monitoring group UN Watch.


"Canada condemns the Burmese regime's lack of respect for the human rights and fundamental freedoms of its people, and we urge the regime to improve its co-operation with UN agencies and representatives to help address the well being of its citizens," Jeffrey Heaton, speaking for Canada, had said, referring to Myanmar by the name of the country before the military government changed it in 1989.


On behalf of her country, Al Rifaiy accused Israel of systematically using torture against Palestinians and other Arabs, saying the Israeli Knesset has "legitimized" such practices.


"They claim they are allowed to use what is called mild forms of physical pressure; (these) include tying up prisoners in twisted positions for up to five days continuously, sleep deprivation, (and) covering their heads with sacks dipped in — excuse the term — urine," she said.


She went on to charge Israelis suffer from a "paranoid feeling of superiority," while the country was built on "hatred, discrimination (and) oppression."


"Hatred is widespread, taught to even small children, who are taught to use weapons, and who are taught to sign missiles that will be fired at Arabs," Al Rifaiy said


"Let me quote a song that a group of children on a school bus in Israel sing merrily as they go to school: 'With my teeth I will rip your flesh, with my mouth I will suck your blood.'"


Assad said Monday in Turkey that his country will support "every decision and every action" by the Turkish government to make Israel lift its blockade of the Gaza Strip.


The Palestinian territory is ruled by Hamas, which Syria and Iran back, but which most western countries consider to be a terrorist entity.

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


----------



## Kat Stevens

57Chevy said:
			
		

> Syrian envoy's attack on Israel threatens to foil U.S. diplomatic drive
> 
> Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Syrian+envoy+attack+Israel+threatens+diplomacy/3128173/story.html#ixzz0qJb3Kfr2
> 
> UNITED NATIONS — Syria on Tuesday accused Israel of indoctrinating its children with hatred towards Arabs, telling the United Nations Human Rights Council that Israeli youngsters sing about sucking Arab blood, and learn how to sign missiles destined for military activity against Arabs.




Bwahahaha!!   "Hello, Kettle?  Yes, Pot here.  Look old boy, it seems that you appear to be somewhat, err, "black", as it were".


----------



## GAP

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Bwahahaha!!   "Hello, Kettle?  Yes, Pot here.  Look old boy, it seems that you appear to be somewhat, err, "black", as it were".



All they have to do is take everything they do, and say the Israeli's do it, and everybody believes it.... :


----------



## ModlrMike

GAP said:
			
		

> Reuters Admits Cropping Photos of Ship Clash, Denies Political Motive



Seems more like photo-manipulation rather than simple editing.


----------



## 57Chevy

GAP said:
			
		

> Reuters Admits Cropping Photos of Ship Clash, Denies Political Motive
> By Ed Barnes Published June 08, 2010
> Article Link
> “That’s a very interesting way to crop the photo. Most people would consider that knife an important part of the context. There was a huge controversy over whether the activists were armed. Cropping out a knife, in a picture showing a soldier who’s apparently been stabbed, seems like a very odd editorial decision. Unless someone was trying to hide it,” the blog stated.
> 
> In a second photo the unedited print issued by IHH showed blood along the ship's railing and a hand holding a knife as an Israeli soldier lies on the deck. Both the blood and the knife were missing in the photo that Reuters released.



This is what is normally called treachery. And undeniable proof that you cannot believe everything you see, let alone that which you read.
Seems to me that certain mid-east nations seek to isolate Isreal. Iran is definitely one of them.


----------



## winnipegoo7

"Israel poised to accept British plan to ease Gaza blockade"


"Israel is set to accept a plan under which it would ease its Gaza blockade in return for the international community agreeing a limited probe into a deadly flotilla raid..."


The National Post is now on Facebook. Join our fan community today.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Israel+poised+accept+British+plan+ease+Gaza+blockade/3128825/story.html


----------



## Bo

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19611




> Israel Navy Reserves Officers Call for External Gaza Flotilla Investigation
> Officers denounce operation as 'military and diplomatic failure', slam government for placing blame on the activists.
> 
> 
> Global Research, June 8, 2010
> Haaretz - 2010-06-06
> 
> by Anshel Pfeffer
> 
> A group of top Israel Navy reserves officers on Sunday publicly called on Israel to allow an external probe into its commando raid of a Gaza-bound humanitarian aid flotilla last week, which left nine people dead and several more wounded.
> 
> In a letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, the Navy officers denounced the commando raid as having "ended in tragedy both at the military and diplomatic levels."
> 
> "We disagree with the widespread claims that this was the result of an intelligence rift," said the officers. "In addition, we do not accept claims that this was a 'public relations failure' and we think that the plan was doomed to failure from the beginning."
> 
> *"First and foremost, we protest the fact that responsibility for the tragic results was immediately thrust onto the organizers of the flotilla," wrote the officers. "This demonstrates contempt for the responsibility that belongs principally to the hierarchy of commanders and those who approved the mission. This shows contempt for the values of professionalism, the purity of weapons and for human lives."*
> 
> The Navy officers' letter came as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was convening his top ministers to deliberate a United Nations proposal to create a joint international committee alongside Turkey and the United States to investigate the circumstances of the deadly raid.
> 
> The cabinet was also to discuss the creation of an internal committee to look into the incident. Netanyahu earlier Sunday rejected the idea of an international panel, and reiterated that Israel had the right to conduct its own investigation.
> 
> Netanyahu discussed the proposal for a multinational panel with United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon in a telephone call on Saturday but told cabinet ministers fon Sunday that Israel was exploring other options, political sources said.
> 
> "I told [Ban] that the investigation of the facts must be carried out responsibly and objectively," Netanyahu told ministers. "We need to consider the issue carefully and level-headedly, while maintaining Israel's national interests as well as those of the Israel Defense Forces."



Amazing how the majority of people on this site are saying the activists were at fault when even IDF officers are protesting Israel's actions. 
You can analyze all the youtube videos you want. In the end, when the IDF's own members risk their careers to stand up to their governments actions, it becomes quite clear who was in the wrong.


----------



## Remius

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> "Israel poised to accept British plan to ease Gaza blockade"
> 
> 
> "Israel is set to accept a plan under which it would ease its Gaza blockade in return for the international community agreeing a limited probe into a deadly flotilla raid..."
> 
> 
> The National Post is now on Facebook. Join our fan community today.
> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Israel+poised+accept+British+plan+ease+Gaza+blockade/3128825/story.html



You see, I'm in favour of getting more info before condemning Israel over this.  At first I was "What were they (Israel) thinking" then after seeing video footage and more details it was "Well, looks like they (activists) asked for it."

This last bit though has me wondering if Israel has something to hide.  "look if you don't look too closely at this we'll ease off on the blockade."

You never know what to believe.   :-\

I think the PMs measured response was appropriate despite naysayers claiming it was tacit support.  I wonder how many world governments will be as quick to retract their initial responses if Israel was found to be in the "right".


----------



## Loachman

http://www.slate.com/id/2256341/



> HOME / explainer : Answers to your questions about the news.
> 
> The Art of War
> 
> Why do commandos use paintball guns?
> 
> By Brian Palmer
> 
> Posted Tuesday, June 8, 2010, at 6:32 PM ET
> 
> When Israeli commandos boarded the Turkish-flagged vessel Mavi Marmara headed for Gaza last week, they used paintball guns against the pro-Palestinian activists before resorting to more lethal defensive tactics. Why would commandos use paintball guns?
> 
> To mark, scatter, or hurt aggressors. Military-grade, paintball-style launchers can carry three kinds of payload: ordinary paintballs, "pepperballs," or impact balls. Paintballs are a great way to brand the most disobedient members of a rioting horde so backup officers can sweep in and cuff them or track them when they try to flee. (Both washable and permanent paints are available.) Pepperballs contain a small amount of pepper spray to irritate the eyes and noses of the targets and help disperse menacing crowds. Impact balls consist of metal powder in a plastic case and are much harder than a typical paintball. Commandos use them to drive back approaching mobs. Israel hasn't said which of the munitions its commandos were carrying.
> 
> Law-enforcement officers don't carry commercial paintball guns, but their weapons use the same compressed-air technology. There are two general categories of paintball-style systems. High-capacity pepperball guns carry 150 rounds of pellets in a top-mounted hopper, giving the appearance of a recreational paintball gun. U.S. forces prefer the more versatile FN 303, which can also fire impact and paint munitions. While the FN 303 offers only a 15-round, tommy gun-style magazine, it delivers three times the force of the typical pepperball system. (You can tell which system hit you by the shape of the welt: The pepperballs leave a rounder mark than the FN 303 ammo.) Of course, if you're looking for stopping power, neither of the compressed-air weapons can compare to more traditional bean bags or plastic bullets, which deliver 10 and 13 times as much force, respectively, as the pepperball. None of these munitions will stop the most motivated protesters, but they help police separate the merely unruly from those bent on violence.
> 
> Law-enforcement types used to refer to all of these tools as nonlethal weapons, but a series of tragedies has given rise to the less-lethal moniker. In 2004, Boston police, attempting to disperse a crowd of jubilant Red Sox fans, accidentally killed a college student by shooting her in the eye with a pepperball from the FN 303. According to Amnesty International, 351 people in the United States have died after being Tasered since June 2001. (Experts disagree on how many of them were actually killed by the Taser.) Bean bags and plastic bullets have killed more than a dozen people in the U.S. since 1971.
> 
> While a complete picture of what happened on the Mavi Marmara has not yet emerged, video from the incident indicates that the Israeli forces failed to clear the deck and form a proper skirmish line to prevent the protesters from outflanking or surrounding the soldiers. The helicopters could have fired tear-gas canisters, small water cannons, or plastic bullets to clear a landing area for the commandos. Despite a possible failure in tactics, the Israelis had the right tools for the job. None of the more exotic less-lethal weapons would have worked well on the Mavi Marmara. Tasers are effective against individual suspects but not against crowds. High-tech noise-makers and skunk spray keep space between rioters and police, but are ineffective in very close quarters. Both the U.S. and Israeli militaries are developing a so-called pain beam, which uses a focused energy beam to give suspects an intolerable burning sensation, but it hasn't yet been deployed in the field.
> 
> Got a question about today's news? Ask the Explainer.
> 
> Explainer thanks Maj. Steve Ijames of Watch House International, LCDR Lance Lantier of the U.S. Navy's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate, and Col. Andrew F. Mazzara of the Institute for Non-Lethal Defense Technologies at Penn State University.


----------



## 57Chevy

Must balance Israeli security, Gaza needs: Obama


By Sheldon Alberts, Canwest News Washington Correspondent June 9, 2010 1:34 PM


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Must+balance+Israeli+security+Gaza+needs+Obama/3131726/story.html#ixzz0qNn28O2C

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama on Wednesday suggested Israel may need to relax its naval blockade of the Gaza Strip and called the security situation in the Palestinian-held area "inherently unsustainable."


Following a meeting with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Obama said he plans to open talks around a new "conceptual framework" about how to deliver aid to Palestinians in Gaza.


"With respect to the broader issue of lifting the blockade, as I said before, I think the key here is making sure that Israel's security needs are met but that the needs of people in Gaza are also met," Obama said.


"And it seems to us that there should be ways of focusing narrowly on arms shipments, rather than focusing in a blanket way on stopping everything and then, in a piecemeal way, allowing things into Gaza."


Obama's remarks were the most extensive he has made on the blockade of Gaza since Israeli commandos last month stormed a Turkish-flagged ship carrying aid shipments, leading to nine deaths.


The incident has provoked an international crisis and widespread criticism of Israel in the Arab world and by many European nations.


Great Britain and France have both urged international inquiries into the circumstances surrounding the violence aboard the ship.


The White House has said it is "open" to international participation in an Israel-led inquiry.


Israel maintains its soldiers used force in self-defense after being attacked with clubs by flotilla passengers. The passengers say the Israelis were not provoked.


Asked about the pending Israeli investigation, Obama referred to a U.S.-backed UN Security Council statement that called for a "credible, transparent investigation" inquiry.


"I think everybody — people in Israel, people in Turkey, people within the Palestinian territories, certainly people here in the United States — want to know the facts of this tragedy, what led to it, how can we prevent it in the future," Obama said.


"I've said to the Israelis directly, and certainly my team has communicated the fact, that it is in Israel's interest to make sure that everybody knows exactly how this happened so that we don't see these kinds of events occurring again. And we expect that the standard that was called for in the UN Security Council to be met."


France has suggested the European Union could intervene to defuse tensions by checking cargo aboard Gaza-bound aid ships for illicit weapons.


Obama did not endorse the idea of a European Union-led cargo check.


"There should be a means by which we are able to stop the flow of arms that could endanger Israel's security, at the same time we're doing so in a way that allows the people in Gaza to live out their aspirations and their dreams, both for themselves and their children," he said.

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


----------



## 57Chevy

Junk Food for Gaza: Israel Easing Blockade
Israel Says it Will Ease Its Economic Blockade of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip
JERUSALEM, June 10, 2010 

Israel signaled a partial easing of its three-year long economic blockade of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip Wednesday, announcing that potato chips, fruit juices, Coca Cola, cookies and other snack foods would be allowed in starting next week
But there is still no relaxation on the transfer of the raw materials Gazans and aid agencies claim are desperately needed to rebuild the coastal territory's shattered infrastructure. 

Things like cement, spare parts for cars, electrical appliances and other construction materials are still to be severely restricted. 

The United Nations said Israel's move was not enough.

 "A modest expansion of the restrictive list of goods allowed into Gaza falls well short of what is needed," said Maxwell Gaylard, a senior UN humanitarian official. "We need a fundamental change and an opening of the crossing for commercial goods," he added. 

 Israel first imposed its tough economic blockade in response to Hamas's armed takeover of Gaza in 2007. It says the policy is designed to prevent Hamas from building its military strength. 

More on link:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-signals-partial-easing-gaza-blockade/story?id=10873488


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla
Israeli government press office distributed video link featuring Arabs and activists singing

           (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

The Israeli government has been forced to apologise for circulating a spoof video mocking activists aboard the Gaza flotilla, nine of who were shot dead by Israeli forces last week.

The YouTube clip, set to the tune of the 1985 charity single We Are the World, features Israelis dressed as Arabs and activists, waving weapons while singing: "We con the world, we con the people. We'll make them all believe the IDF (Israel Defence Force) is Jack the Ripper."

It continues: "There's no people dying, so the best that we can do is create the biggest bluff of all."

The Israeli government press office distributed the video link to foreign journalists at the weekend, but within hours emailed them an apology, saying it had been an error. Press office director Danny Seaman said the video did not reflect official state opinion, but in his personal capacity he thought it was "fantastic".

Government spokesman Mark Regev said the video reflected how Israelis felt about the incident. "I called my kids in to watch it because I thought it was funny," he said. "It is what Israelis feel. But the government has nothing to do with it."

The clip features a group led by the Jerusalem Post's deputy managing editor Caroline Glick, wearing keffiyehs and calling themselves the Flotilla Choir. The footage is interspersed with clips from the recent Israeli raid on the Gaza-bound aid ship, the Mavi Marmara.

The clip has been praised in Israel, where the mass-circulation daily Yediot Aharonot said the singers "defended Israel better than any of the experts".

But Didi Remez, an Israeli who runs the liberal-left news analysis blog Coteret, said the clip was "repulsive" and reflected how out of touch Israeli opinion was with the rest of the world. "It shows a complete lack of understanding of how the incident is being perceived abroad," he said. Award-winning Israeli journalist Meron Rapoport said the clip demonstrated prejudice against Muslims. "It's roughly done, not very sophisticated, anti-Muslim – and childish for the government to be behind such a clip," he said.

A similar press office email was sent to foreign journalists two weeks ago, recommending a gourmet restaurant and Olympic-sized swimming pool in Gaza to highlight Israel's claim there is no humanitarian crisis there. Journalists who complained the email was in poor taste were told they had "no sense of humour".

Last week, the Israel Defence Force had to issue a retraction over an audio clip it had claimed was a conversation between Israeli naval officials and people on the Mavi Marmara, in which an activist told soldiers to "go back to Auschwitz". The clip was carried by Israeli and international press, but today the army released a "clarification/correction", explaining that it had edited the footage and that it was not clear who had made the comment.

The Israeli army also backed down last week from an earlier claim that soldiers were attacked by al-Qaida "mercenaries" aboard the Gaza flotilla. An article appearing on the IDF spokesperson's website with the headline: "Attackers of the IDF soldiers found to be al-Qaida mercenaries", was later changed to "Attackers of the IDF Soldiers found without identification papers," with the information about al-Qaida removed from the main article. An army spokesperson told the Guardian there was no evidence proving such a link to the terror organisation.

While the debate over accounts of the flotilla raid continues, Israel is facing more boycotting. In the past week, three international acts, including the US rock band the Pixies, have cancelled concerts in Tel Aviv.

Best-settling authors Alice Walker and Iain Banks have backed the boycott campaign, with Banks announcing his books won't be translated into Hebrew. Dockworker unions in Sweden and South Africa have refused to handle Israeli ships, while the UK's Unite union just passed a motion to boycott Israeli companies


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel PM Netanyahu in talks to enable Gaza aid

JERUSALEM, June 13, 2010 (AFP) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday he was engaged in discussions on ways to meet Gaza’s humanitarian needs while preventing the entry of arms into the Hamas-run coastal strip.

Netanyahu told reporters at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting that talks on the issue began even before Israeli commandos stormed the lead ship of a convoy seeking to break its naval blockade, killing nine Turkish activists

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/Israel+Netanyahu+talks+enable+Gaza/3148968/story.html#ixzz0qjREsOUB


----------



## Edward Campbell

I am loath to join this discussion, but this:






Graeme MacKay
The Hamilton Spectator

represents the israeli POV quite well, I think.


----------



## 57Chevy

Canadian appointed to Israeli inquiry into deadly flotilla raid

 (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


OTTAWA — Israel appointed the Canadian military’s recently retired top legal officer as an observer to an internal inquiry into its deadly raid on an aid flotilla Sunday as the three Canadians aboard the Gaza-bound vessel said Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s muted reaction to the events last month has been “a disgrace.”

At the same time, Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon’s department issued a news release with a headline saying he was “concerned but welcoming” toward the Israeli inquiry, then later issued a modified headline removing the word “concerned.”

Cannon backed Israel’s decision to reject a chorus of calls by the United Nations and many individual countries for an independent international inquiry into the raid in which Israeli soldiers killed at least nine people, injured dozens more and later detained hundreds of activists. The inquiry will be held by an Israeli commission with two foreign observers, one of them Ken Watkin, a retired Canadian brigadier-general.

Watkin wound up his four-year term two months ago as judge advocate general of the Canadian armed forces after a legal career in the military that included serving as an adviser in 1993 to the inquiry into the Somalia affair and investigations into the 1994 genocide in Rwanda. Israel said the decorated officer would participate in all aspects of the inquiry but would have no vote. He is one of two foreign observers on the commission, the other being David Trimble, who won a 1998 Nobel Prize for helping bring peace to Northern Ireland.

(article continues)

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Canadian+appointed+Israeli+inquiry+into+deadly+flotilla+raid/3149999/story.html#ixzz0qp0cv400


----------



## 57Chevy

ICRC says Israel's Gaza blockade breaks law:

 (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

Israel's blockade of Gaza is a clear violation of international humanitarian law, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has said. 

In a statement, the ICRC describes the situation in Gaza as dire, saying the only sustainable solution is a lifting of the blockade. 

It says Israel is punishing the whole civilian population of Gaza. 

It also urges Hamas movement to allow ICRC delegates to visit a detained Israel soldier Gilad Shalit. 

Key message:

The ICRC, a traditionally neutral organisation, paints a bleak picture of conditions in Gaza: hospitals short of equipment, power cuts lasting hours each day, drinking water unfit for consumption. 

"The whole of Gaza's civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel's obligations under international humanitarian law," the agency said in the statement. 

And the ICRC blames differences between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority for some of Gaza's shortages. 

But the key message from the body which rarely publicly criticises governments is that Israel's blockade of Gaza must be lifted. 

That message is yet another indication of growing international concern over conditions in Gaza - just last week US President Barack Obama called the situation there unsustainable.


----------



## SeanNewman

Iran now sending aid ships too.  I am calling it: Here comes WW3.  Source:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37681507/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

Iranian aid ships head for Gaza
By Robin Pomeroy, Reuters
updated 8:35 a.m. ET June 14, 2010

TEHRAN - Iran is sending aid ships to blockaded Gaza, state radio said on Monday -- a move likely to be considered provocative by Israel which accuses Tehran of arming the Palestinian enclave's Islamist rulers, Hamas.

(More on link)


----------



## vonGarvin

No, *I* am calling it:







(You weren't touching your nose)


----------



## 57Chevy

Petamocto said:
			
		

> a move likely to be considered provocative by Israel




From reply #126
quote:" Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel"

I see Iran reads the paper too.


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel: U.N. Will Take Seized Flotilla Goods to Gaza:

JERUSALEM -- The United Nations will take to Gaza tons of aid supplies languishing in an Israeli port for two weeks since they were seized in a bloody sea confrontation, the Israeli military said Tuesday.

Richard Miron, a spokesman for the U.N. Mideast envoy, confirmed the deal. The military said the aid, taken from a six-ship Gaza-bound flotilla after nine people died in clashes, would fill 70 trucks.

Up to now, the Hamas rulers of Gaza have refused to accept the aid as a protest against Israel's three-year blockade of the territory. Hamas had no comment on the arrangement, under which the U.N. would take charge of seeing that the aid would be used in authorized humanitarian projects.

(article continues)  (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/15/israel-seized-flotilla-goods-gaza/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fworld+%28Text+-+World%29


----------



## GAP

New Footage Emerges From the Israeli Flotilla Raid
Article Link
Jun 11 2010, 11:01 AM ET | Comment
Fifteen minutes of previously unseen footage from the Israeli flotilla raid are now viewable online, according to Citizen Tube, an official YouTube blog that promotes videos related to current events.

The two videos (below) were uploaded by Iara Lee, who was aboard the Mavi Marmara which was boarded by soldiers during the raid. Lee is the director of Cultures of Resistance, a network dedicated, according to their site's description, to opposing war and promoting "peace, justice, and sustainability" around the world.

Notable moments in the first video:

0:30 Israeli speedboats are shown running alongside the Mavi Marmara.
3:10 Soldiers can be seen boarding the ship by sliding down ropes from a helicopter.
3:35 Passengers aboard the ship use slingshots against the soldiers.
6:20 Some bloodied passengers can be seen having their injuries treated.
More on link


----------



## Journeyman

GAP said:
			
		

> New Footage Emerges From the Israeli Flotilla Raid


Obviously they're not the quickest video editors; I'm sure it _now_ gives a balanced view of what occurred


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel to ease Gaza land blockade

JERUSALEM - Israel said on Thursday it was easing a land blockade of the Gaza Strip that drew heightened international criticism after its deadly raid on an aid flotilla bound for the Hamas-run territory.


A new Israeli-approved product list included all food items, toys, stationery, kitchen utensils, mattresses and towels, said Raed Fattouh, the Palestinian co-ordinator of supplies to the enclave.


But Israel maintained its sea blockade of the coastal strip and a ban on the private import of building materials, vital to widescale reconstruction after Israel's December 2008-January 2009 war. Hamas called the Israeli measures "media propaganda".

(article continues)

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Israel+ease+Gaza+land+blockade/3165230/story.html#ixzz0r6RyDBlY

                 (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## The Bread Guy

More on latest, from ISR Ministry of Foreign Affairs (highlights mine):


> The Security Cabinet decided to liberalize the system by which civilian goods enter Gaza and expand the inflow of materials for civilian projects under international supervision.
> 
> (Communicated by the Prime Minister's Media Adviser)
> 
> The Security Cabinet conducted an extensive discussion over the last two days regarding adjustments in Israel’s Gaza policy.
> 
> It was agreed to:
> 
> * Liberalize the system by which civilian goods enter Gaza.
> * Expand the inflow of materials for civilian projects that are under international supervision.
> * Continue existing security procedures to prevent the inflow of weapons and war materiel
> 
> The Cabinet will decide in the coming days on additional steps to implement this policy.
> 
> *Israel expects the international community to work toward the immediate release of Gilad Shalit.*


----------



## Jarnhamar

What the hell is wrong with Israel? 

I just heard on the news they have been controlling the food going into Gaza. For the last three years they weren't letting in Toys, mattresses and towels??

Is Isreal TRYING to look like assholes and make the rest of the world hate them?


----------



## Colin Parkinson

No, they are trying to get the people of Gaza to overthrow Hamas and install a government that will work towards a settlement, stop the rocket attacks and release their soldier. The other option of course is all out war.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Taking kids toys mattresses food and towels away will make them love Israel, hate Hamas and over throw the government?

I think they need a new plan.


----------



## vonGarvin

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> Taking kids toys mattresses food and towels away will make them love Israel, hate Hamas and over throw the government?
> 
> I think they need a new plan.


I'm not so sure. In WWI, we starved Germany into submission, and this was *after* they had beaten Russia out of the war and were now fighting on only one front.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> Taking kids toys mattresses food and towels away will make them love Israel, hate Hamas and over throw the government?
> 
> I think they need a new plan.



I admit from the outside looking in, the list is very odd. It might have something to do with various businsses run by Hamas or their supporter. The other option is to flood the area with cheap stuff from China and wipeout the local economy.


----------



## xena

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I'm not so sure. In WWI, we starved Germany into submission, and this was *after* they had beaten Russia out of the war and were now fighting on only one front.


Technically though, Russia wasn't beaten by the Germans, but by the Bolsheviks...  

They only left WW1 when they had a revolution.  It hadn't been going well for them, for sure, but it was the Revolution that ceased their involvement, rather than a true defeat.  Sorry, I know I'm splitting hairs.

But, I concur with your point that Germany had consolidated it's forces and was no longer trying to fight, what was effectively, two wars at the same time.  However, attrition then drummed them into defeat, but not into affection for the Allies...  as events some twenty years later would attest to.


----------



## vonGarvin

xena said:
			
		

> Technically though, Russia wasn't beaten by the Germans, but by the Bolsheviks...
> 
> They only left WW1 when they had a revolution.  It hadn't been going well for them, for sure, but it was the Revolution that ceased their involvement, rather than a true defeat.  Sorry, I know I'm splitting hairs.


That is a very valid point; however, the Germans ensured that a "young" Mr. Lenin made his way back to his native Russia.  

Still, the point being, Russia was out of the war, Germany had but one front with which to contend, had access to vast resources, but we still starved them out:


----------



## xena

Certainly TV!  I never said that there wasn't a "convergence of goals" between the two.   ;D

But, submission by attrition hasn't had a good track record of winning "hearts and minds" historically.  I'm not sure what my point is - I'm not trying to argue - just thinking out loud.  I'm just saying that this approach is one that will require a lot (read: centuries!) of work to repair the damage after the technical peace is restored.  Enough so, that one could argue that the only peace that is brought about this way is temporary at best.  Look at the way things swung back and forth through the centuries in the Balkans, Ireland, and just about anywhere else.

I have no idea how it could be implemented realistically, but it seems to me, that the best way to disincentivise people toward violence is with education - and that isn't just throwing money at them to build schools.  It's taking an interest in the details, and eliminating the propaganda that masquerades as curriculum throughout much of the world.  I'm thinking specifically of the bizarrely racist stuff that is in children's textbooks throughout most of the Arab speaking world; the pro-Imperial revisionist stuff that's being brought back into Japanese textbooks; the unspeakably nasty stuff that's being taught as true to children in various places in Africa, etc.  Basically, throughout the world children are being raised to hate people that aren't of their race/nationality/creed/ethnicity/type and it's this that leads to violence and war far more directly than most other postulated causes.

I have other ideas on the *ultimate* causes of violence and war, but they're theologically based, and not really germain to this website...


----------



## vonGarvin

Instead of winning hearts and minds - I'm fairly certain that the Israelis aren't even considering that - they are looking for the tap out.


----------



## 57Chevy

Hamas said to have 5,000 missiles and rockets in Gaza:

JERUSALEM — Israel's intelligence community has assessed that the Hamas regime was overseeing the deployment of at least 5,000 missiles and rockets in the Gaza Strip.

Israel Security Agency director Yuval Diskin said Hamas as well as the Iranian-sponsored Islamic Jihad have deployed 5,000 missiles and rockets in the Gaza Strip. Diskin said the weapons have a range of up to 40 kilometers, capable of reaching the southern Israeli city of Beersheba. 
"They continue to arm themselves both through production and smuggling," Diskin said. 

In a briefing to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on June 15, Diskin said Hamas and other Palestinian forces have acquired long-range rockets. Diskin said these rockets were capable of reaching Tel Aviv. 
"Hamas and Islamic Jihad have over 5,000 rockets with ranges of up to 40 kilometers, most of them home-made," Diskin said. "Of those rockets, 4,000 belong to Hamas. They also have dozens of more technologically-advanced models that have been smuggled into Gaza Strip." 

Diskin, in remarks released by the Knesset committee, did not identify the long-range rockets acquired by Hamas. But Israeli sources said the rockets included the Fajr-5, with a range of more than 80 kilometers. 

The intelligence chief warned that Hamas sought to acquire medium- and long-range rockets from Iran. He said missile components were being smuggled from Egypt via the vast tunnel network to the Gaza Strip. 

"Lifting the naval blockade [from the Gaza Strip] would constitute a very dangerous development," Diskin, responding to the latest Western campaign, said. "A port in Gaza would be a major security breach, despite the option of inspecting vessels prior to their arrival." 

Hamas was also said to be working with Islamic insurgents in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. Diskin identified the insurgents as Al Qaida and those aligned with the Iranian-sponsored Hizbullah. 

On June 16, the Israel Army detected a squad of gunmen that infiltrated from Sinai north of the Israeli city of Eilat. In an operation coordinated with Egypt, Israeli troops killed one of the infiltrators and found an improvised explosive device. The other squad members fled back into Sinai. 

"Sinai attracts Al Qaida [insurgents] who come from Iraq through Jordan," Diskin said. "Terror facilitators from Gaza also make their way [to Sinai], as are those who help Hizbullah. The Sinai Peninsula is a vast area and it is very difficult to control who enters it."  

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_hamas0531_06_16.asp

        (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## Jarnhamar

It appears I don't have all the facts. I'll admit that you're probably right about starving them out (though it still makes me wonder).

Regardless, you have to admit Israel is loosing the PR battle.

1. Seizing weapons electronics and other items to make rockets is understandable.  Stopping the import of towels toys and mattresses just seems hateful. If anything I would bombard them with luxuries. Maybe if they would be allowed to enjoy life (or a friggin soft bed) they would be less inclined to blow themselves up or whatever. I don't know.

2. It's 2010. If I'm some mouthy teenager and you're a cop and you rough me up a little (even  within the use of force guidelines) it'll be posted on youtube before you get home from work. They'll have a facebook group up calling for you to be fired before you eat supper. Now more than every the public eye and public relations seems to be a HUGE deal. Israel seems to be really shitty the bed with their image. (I guess that was the meat and potato's about my post).

Even if there were long cylindrical tubes found on that ship with ACME printed on the side people are going to remember images of Israeli soldiers with assault rifles facing off against dudes with sling shots. That's public image fail #1.
As righteous as Israel's intent might be (or justified) their shooting themselves in the foot with this stuff IMO.


----------



## 57Chevy

Apollo, I don't think so (ref: shootong themselves in the foot). I think they are being shot in the foot.
 Firstly: Humanitarian aid is supposed to be neutral. What is the need to break the blockade?
 Second: Isreal allocated a port site (Asdod) for aid cargo ships, where the ships would be inspected
 for weapons, explosives, and other items that could be used by Hammas.
 Israel works hand in hand with the UN to move cargo by land to Gaza. So, where is the problem?

 What gets me is that there are those willing to use the term "humanitarian aid" to get the sympathy
 on the world stage, when in reality it is to break the blockade. This is hypocrosity.
 Something like being bladed. And worse. Knowing the fact that Israel would defend their blockade,
 they go ahead and try anyway. Get all banged up, then turn around and say, "look what Isreal has   
 done to us !". And worse yet, Israels' enemies jumping in to back up the so called "humanitarian aid".
 What a crock! They want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. So, just what "aid" are they really
 speaking of ? They will use any means possible to shoot Israel in the foot. Twisting things up to use
 for their own hidden agenda. And that is why there were terroists found on the "aid" ship.

 And, in all this, Israel continues to work with the UN humanitarian effort to ease the burden of their
 warring neighbor.


----------



## Jarnhamar

57Chevy said:
			
		

> Firstly: Humanitarian aid is supposed to be neutral. What is the need to break the blockade?


I'm not sure. They could have wanted some mattress for their kids to sleep on.



> Second: Isreal allocated a port site (Asdod) for aid cargo ships, where the ships would be inspected
> for weapons, explosives, and other items that could be used by Hammas.
> Israel works hand in hand with the UN to move cargo by land to Gaza. So, where is the problem?



I think what caught my attention was what's "banned from inport".  

Is there a list of what the ship was actually carrying? Like a manifest of some sort?

Also, is it true that Israel made up fake audio tapes or something like that? I thought I remembered reading or hearing somewhere that they edited audio recordings of the boarding and thew in antiseminite comments. I guess to try and make the ships crew/passangers look bad.   Did I hear that right?



> They want to wipe Israel off the face of the map.


I think it's safe to say they both want to wipe each other off the map.


----------



## Jungle

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> I think it's safe to say they both want to wipe each other off the map.



If Israel wanted the Palestinians off the map, they would have got rid of them long ago.


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel to allow all 'civilian' goods into Gaza: govt source

JERUSALEM, June 20, 2010 (AFP) - Israel will allow all "civilian" goods into the Gaza Strip while still preventing weapons from entering the Hamas-run territory, a senior Israeli official said Sunday.

The new policy is a response to mounting calls to ease the four-year siege on the impoverished enclave after Israeli forces killed nine activists during a May 31 raid on a flotilla of aid ships attempting to run the blockade.

"We are committed to enable the flow of civilian goods to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip," a senior official in the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told AFP.

"From today, there is a green light for all goods to enter Gaza except for military items and material that can strengthen the Hamas military machine," the official said as Netanyahu was meeting with Middle East Quartet envoy Tony Blair to discuss easing the blockade.

(article continues)

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Civilian+goods+into+Gaza+source/3178644/story.html#ixzz0rQ3bI9X8

               (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## a_majoor

This is just one more brick in the "Deligitimatize Israel" wall. For decades now propagandists from the Arab world have been running a huge campaign to cause Israel to be looked on as an illigitimate construct rather than a respected member of the civilized world.

Despite the fact that Israel is the only liberal democracy, free market economy and human rights enclave in the region, we see constant condemnation for their actions, and anti semetic hate fests like ""Anti Israel Apartheid Week" celebrated in Canadian Universities (the very same places which go silent when a Canadian woman becomes the victim of an "honour killing"). This contant corrosive addition to political discourse will eventually cause Israel to loose support from other Liberal Democratic, Free Market Democracies. Without economic support (in the form of market access as a minimum) and political recognition, Israel will eventually be overwhelmed, which will be a very black mark on our own history and culture.

However, since Isreal is a liberal democratic, free market society, I think the time line for its destruction will be far longer than her enemies will like. Athens lost the flower of her Army and Fleet in the Sicilian Expedition, and had lost most of her allies in the Delian league (while Sparta and her allies were receiving a great deal of financial backing from the Persian Empire), but because of her liberal democratic and free market society (for the time),  she was able to continue to fight Sparta to a standstill for almost a decade thereafter. Look for a prolonged rearguard action.


----------



## 57Chevy

Barak tells U.N. to shelve flotilla raid probe plan:

(Reuters) - Israel's defense minister on Monday urged the U.N. chief to shelve plans for a U.N.-backed independent investigation of a deadly Israeli commando raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla last month.

Speaking to reporters after he met with Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said he told Ban the United Nations should suspend plans to set up an inquiry into Israel's May 31 interception of a six-ship convoy heading to the Gaza Strip, in which nine Turks died.

"We expressed our view that for the time being, as long as ... new flotillas are in the preparation, it's probably better to leave it (a U.N. investigation) on the shelf for a certain time," Barak said.

He said the five-person panel Israel has established, which includes two foreign observers, would be sufficient for now.

"We are moving ahead with our independent investigation, which we believe is clearly independent, reliable, credible and should be allowed to work," Barak said.

It was not clear if Barak meant Israel might accept Ban's proposal at a later date. He declined to take questions

(article continues)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65K6VG20100621?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FworldNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+International%29

          (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## Loachman

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/06/16/lorne-gunter-clutching-desperately-at-the-flotilla-myth/



> Lorne Gunter: Clutching desperately at the flotilla myth
> 
> (Comment on Photo - available at link) See those guys in the gas masks holding down the bloodied Israeli soldier? They're peace activists who only want to deliver aid to Gaza. Seriously. The Israeli must have hurt himself while shaving.
> 
> Lorne Gunter <http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/author/lornegunter/>  June 16, 2010 – 8:50 am
> 
> It is possible for intelligent people to disagree over the way Israel stopped the flotilla that set out for Gaza from Turkey last month. Even after what we have learned about the “humanitarians” on board in the past two weeks - that many were in reality thugs lying in wait to ambush Israeli commandos - it is still possible to contend that Israeli military planners and commanders were unprepared for what their troops found when they tried to board the Turkish ships. Their unpreparedness, in turn, led to an overreaction by the commandos who, caught off guard, ended up killing nine thugs.
> 
> I, personally, don’t dispute the Israelis’ tactics, I’m merely saying that among smart people it’s possible to disagree over whether Israel used just enough force, or too much.
> 
> But what can no longer be disputed is the character of those onboard the flotilla.
> 
> Sure, there were many useful idiots on the decks - pro-Palestinian activists from Western nations who had been included merely because they made good PR decoys. And, yes, most of them probably swallowed whole the bumph flotilla organizers were selling - that the exercise was merely an attempt to run Israel’s blockade of Gaza ports and bring food, medicine, clothing, toys, etc. to the poor, starving residents.
> 
> But the real passengers were 40 operatives from the Turkish Islamist organization, the IHH, which has close ties to the ruling AKP party and directly to Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, according to the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center. It has also been reported that the ship on which the deadly commando raid took place, the Mavi Maramara, was purchased by the IHH from a company owned by the AKP with money furnished by the Turkish government.
> 
> There was never any nobler purpose than to break the blockade so ships that would follow could bring in guns, explosives and rockets for use against Israel. That’s what Gaza is running short of - weapons. Every day Israel gives Gazans tons of food and supplies, or permits other countries’ aid organizations to ship tons more across Israeli territory.
> 
> I’m not saying Gazans are living large on Israeli rations and potable water, but Gaza’s Hamas rulers need the blockade lifted because there are running short of guns, ammunition and portable missiles, not wheelchairs, toys and hypodermics.
> 
> Nor is it hard to believe that organizers hoped the Israelis would attempt to board the IHH ship so fanatics could attack them with rods, knives and light weapons - either to kill the Israelis or to provoke the kind of retaliation that would bring international condemnation and scathing headlines.
> 
> We know all nine of those killed by Israeli commandos were affiliated with the IHH - including American Furkan Dogan - so to continue to insist they were merely idealists on a compassionate mission who were brutally murdered by Israel is at best self-delusion and at worst dishonest.
> 
> Yet in Tuesday’s Toronto Star, author and columnist Linda McQuaig insisted the nine were nothing more than “peace activists” and that their “killings” were a “shocking” contravention by Israel of a convention among “civilized countries” that “seizing ships on the high seas is a very bad thing.”
> 
> The insistence that the nine dead extremists were nothing but peaceniks and that Israel was in contravention of maritime law(it wasn’t) is bad enough - Leslie Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, calls this sort of thinking typical of “knee-jerk left-wingers and the usual legion of poseurs around the world” - but McQuaig insists on going further still.
> 
> McQuaig likens Israel’s raid to the Palestinian Liberation Front’s 1985 attack on the cruise ship the Achille Lauro, in which terrorists seized the ship and tossed a disabled American Jew, Leon Klinghoffer, overboard to drown.
> 
> This is a sneering attempt to draw moral equivalence between Israeli counterterrorism and blind acts of hatred against Jews for the crime of being Jews. This is an only slightly more sophisticated version of the old tactic of comparing Israel to the Nazis and Gaza to a concentration camp. But it is a mark of how desperate the anti-Israel left is to keep their flotilla myth alive.
> 
> National Post
> lgunter@shaw.ca


----------



## Retired AF Guy

The good folks over at the Black Rod have a blow-by-blow account of events leading up to the attack and the attack itself. It includes  eyewitness' accounts from those aboard the ship and the commando's who stormed the ship. Part 1 is here:  
http://blackrod.blogspot.com/

Part 2 to be posted today (Tuesday).


----------



## 57Chevy

I think this provocative "aid" shipment should be added here......
                  ______________________________________________
Iran to Send Aid Ship to Gaza:

On the heels of the deadly Gaza flotilla incident, plus the latest round of sanctions passed at the United Nations Security Council against Iran's nuclear program, Iran is jumping on the opportunity to provoke a confrontation with its nemesis Israel while giving another sign of support to the Hamas rulers in the Gaza Strip. From the semi-official Fars news agency:

"Iran's Red Crescent Society plans to send a ship carrying Iran's aids to the Gaza Strip, spokesman of the ship said on Tuesday, adding that the convoy is scheduled to leave the country's southern port city of Bandar Abbas next week.

'The Iranian Red Crescent Society's aid ship, dubbed as 'Gaza Children Ship' and carrying 1,100 tons of medicine and foodstuff, will leave the port of Bandar Abbas and the pier of Bahonar next week,' Abdulrauf Adibzadeh said.

'Five RC personnel and five reporters will also leave for Gaza on the ship,' the spokesman stated, adding that Iran will officially issue the names and photos of the crews and passengers."

(article continues)
http://worldnews.about.com/b/2010/06/22/iran-to-send-aid-ship-to-gaza.htm

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## SeanNewman

57Chevy said:
			
		

> I think this provocative "aid" shipment should be added here...



Yes it got brought up last week when Iran was supposedly sending it.

Should be getting there by now or pretty darned soon.


----------



## 57Chevy

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Yes it got brought up last week when Iran was supposedly sending it.
> 
> Should be getting there by now or pretty darned soon.



I see.....It must be the updated version with added info. 
(I noted you called WWIII on it)


----------



## vonGarvin

57Chevy said:
			
		

> I see.....It must be the updated version with added info.
> *(I noted you called WWIII on it)*


But he wasn't touching his nose, so it didn't count.  I was touching my nose, So *I* called it ;D


----------



## 57Chevy

Technoviking said:
			
		

> But he wasn't touching his nose, so it didn't count.  I was touching my nose, So *I* called it ;D


I noted that too.....but I......forget it.....I'll let you guys have at her ;D


----------



## 57Chevy

Israel: Flotillas Aim to Get Weapons to Gaza:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu charged Wednesday that the real motivation behind plans to send blockade-busting ships toward Gaza is to allow free flow of weapons into the Palestinian territory.
Netanyahu spoke as preparations were under way to send several ships carrying aid and pro-Palestinian activists toward Gaza, setting up potential confrontations at sea

On Wednesday, Lebanon warned that it would hold Israel responsible for any further attacks on blockade-busting ships.
Netanyahu said his government is drawing up a list of weapons and items with military uses that will not be allowed into Gaza "so that we can permit all the rest."
He said the new list will be made public "in the coming days."

Under Israel's new policy, approved Sunday, "Anyone who wants to bring products can do so — food, toys, medicines, anything," Netanyahu said Wednesday at his Jerusalem office, where he was meeting Austrian Chancellor Werner Faymann.

(some repetitive parts of article are not posted)
read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=10989346

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## 57Chevy

Iran will not send aid ship to Gaza:

Tehran, Iran (CNN) -- Iran will not send a ship carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza as it had planned to do on Thursday, according to a report from the official news agency of Iran.

The Islamic Republic News Agency quoted Hossein Sheikholeslam, secretary-general of the International Conference for the Support of the Palestinian Intifada, as saying: "The Iranian ship carrying humanitarian aid will not go to Gaza."

IRNA said that Sheikholeslam told reporters in the northern city of Rasht that the ship had originally been scheduled to depart for Gaza on Thursday, but that its departure was postponed until Sunday because of restrictions imposed by Israel.

He added that officials then decided instead to cancel the trip altogether, shipping to Gaza the goods by other means, IRNA said.

(article continues) Read more:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/24/iran.gaza.aid.boat/index.html?eref=edition&fbid=X-q7GDAv616

            (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


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## 57Chevy

Turkish Rally for Flotilla Raises Flag with Nazi Symbol:

Turkish supporters for flotillas aimed at breaking Israel’s maritime embargo on Hamas-controlled Gaza recently raised the Nazi flag with an expression of gratitude. The Turkish language slogan on the flag is a common expression of gratitude, according to the [Islam] Religion for Peace.com website.

Turkey was not allied with the Nazi regime but retained important trade agreements that allowed Nazi Germany to import key materials until the pact was broken one year before the end of World War II.

The web site states that Muslim jihadists have committed 15,533 attacks around the world since the September 11, 2001 aerial suicide bombings on the United States.

Turkey and the terrorist-linked IHH organization organized the last flotilla May 31, when IHH members, many of them with training by terrorist groups, attacked Israeli Navy commandos who prevented the Mavi Mamara ship from continuing on course to Gaza.

The clash sparked another crisis in Turkish Israeli relations, which have rapidly deteriorated since last year’s three-week Operation Cast Lead war against the Hamas terrorist infrastructure.

“For a sovereign state, giving up on a matter like this requires giving up on its statehood,” a senior government official told journalists, as reported by Turkey’s Today’s Zayman. “Turkish-Israeli ties appeared headed for a collapse if Israel refuses, as it does now, to offer a formal apology,” for the clash.

The official also alleged that the Mavi Mamara was headed for Egypt’s El-Arish port and not to Gaza.

link: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138274

            (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


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## 57Chevy

Gaza aid ship sails from Greece, may head to Egypt  Aid Ship 
LAVRIO, Greece - A ship carrying aid for Palestinians blockaded in Gaza by Israel left Greece on Saturday, just over a month after 9 activists died in an Israeli raid on an aid flotilla on a similar mission. 

It was unclear if the Moldovan-flagged boat, with twelve crew and up to ten activists on board, would try to reach Gaza in defiance of the Israeli blockade or would go to the Egyptian port of El Arish. 

A spokesman at the Greek Foreign Ministry said the ship would head for El Arish. 

An official from ACA Shipping, which owns the ship, told Reuters ahead of the ship's departure: "The ship will leave in a few minutes for Gaza. If they don't let us reach there (Gaza) we will head to El Arish harbour in Egypt." 

A charity chaired by the Libyan Leader's son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi is organizing the trip and said the Amalthea, re-named Hope for the trip, carried some 2,000 tons of food and medicine and complied with international rules. The trip was expected to take between 70 and 80 hours. 

Nine pro-Palestinian activists died in May when Israeli marines stormed a Turkish aid ship leading a Gaza-bound convoy, prompting an international outcry and a condemnation from the United Nations Security Council. 

Israel said its commandoes were attacked with knives and sticks when they boarded the ship and acted in self-defence. 

Israel said on Saturday it contacted Greek, Egyptian and Moldovan authorities to make sure the ship chartered by the Gaddafi International Charity and Development Foundation would not attempt to reach Gaza. 

Its ambassador to the United Nations sent letters to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the president of the UN General Assembly, Ali Treki of Libya. 

"In spite of the stated intention of this mission, we are deeply concerned that the true nature of its actions remains dubious," Gabriela Shalev wrote. "This mission is completely unwarranted," she wrote, urging the international community to ensure that the ship "does not sail". 

The organizers said the Moldova-flagged ship contained only food and medicine and complied with international rules. Supporters of the charity making the trips were mostly Libyans, they said, with also one Nigerian and a Moroccan. The crew include Cubans, Haitians, Syrians and Indians. 

Israel says its blockade of Gaza is necessary to stop arms and materials it fears could be used for military purposes from reaching Gaza's Hamas Islamist rulers. The United Nations says the blockade has led to a humanitarian crisis for the territory's 1.5 million people, of whom about 1 million depend to some extent on regular supplies of UN and other foreign aid brought in overland after Israeli inspection. 

Following the international outrage caused by its raid on the aid flotilla, Israel has announced steps to ease the blockade of the enclave and set up an inquiry into the incident. 

           (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


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## The Bread Guy

IDF's summary:


> .... In terms of the intelligence effort, the team concluded that not all possible intelligence gathering methods were fully implemented and that the coordination between Navy Intelligence and the Israel Defense Intelligence was insufficient. At the same time, the team emphasized that it is not certain that an optimal intelligence effort would create a complete intelligence picture. The team also pointed out that the anticipated level of violence used against the forces was underestimated.
> 
> In terms of situation assessments towards the flotilla, the team clarified that the operation relied excessively on a single course of action, albeit a probable one, while no alternative courses of action were prepared for the event of more dangerous scenarios.
> 
> Regarding technological alternatives, the team determined that on the day of the incident, decision makers were not presented with alternative operational courses of action other than a full boarding of the flotilla.  The team emphasized the fact that as far as is currently known, no country in the world holds the ability to stop a vessel at sea in a non hostile manner. Therefore statements made on this matter following the incident are unfounded and irresponsible. At the same time, the team determined that alternative courses of action could have existed had the process of preparation begun enough time in advance, and recommended to accelerate the process of examining alternative methods.
> 
> The expert team determined that regarding media relations, the preparations made in advance were good. However, the release of press statements and visual materials was delayed due to the need to maintain reliability, the obligation to notify the families of the critically injured soldiers and the long authorization process at the levels above the IDF Spokesperson Unit. The team noted with favor the work of the IDF spokesperson following the incident and emphasized the need for better coordination between the IDF, the foreign ministry and other foreign affairs institutions.
> 
> In terms of commanding over the operation, the team determines that the location of the commanders during the incident and the presence of the Commander of the Israel Navy at sea during the operation, was proper and fit with the Chief of the General Staff's view regarding the role of commanders at the front lines of IDF activity. His presence proved effective in terms of the decision making process, saving lives and more. The team praised the Israel Navy combat protocols, the preparations of the Naval Commando Unit, the Navy Command, the Electronic Warfare Formation and the medical evacuation.
> 
> The team determined that the Navy Commando soldiers operated properly, with professionalism, bravery and resourcefulness and that the commanders exhibited correct decision making. The report further determines that the use of live fire was justified and that the entire operation is estimable ....



How MSM headline writers are playing it:

*"No wrongdoing in Israeli raid on Gaza ship: report"* (Reuters)

*"Israel admits Gaza flotilla raid 'mistakes' "* (BBC)

*"Israeli report: Flotilla raid planning was flawed"* (Associated Press)

*"Israeli army review: Force against flotilla activists justified"* (CNN)

*"Israeli probe finds operational mistakes in Gaza flotilla seizure"* (DPA German wire service)


----------



## 57Chevy

More blockade busters
 ____________________________________________________________________________
Israel urges Lebanon to prevent 2 blocade-busting ships from sailing to Gaza:

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Israel is urging Lebanon and the international community to prevent two ships from sailing to Gaza from a Lebanese port to break Israel's blockade of the Hamas-ruled Palestinian territory. It warned that the vessels will be stopped.

Israel's U.N. Ambassador Gabriela Shalev accused organizers of the aid ships Junia and Julia of seeking "to incite a confrontation and raise tensions in our region."

A deadly Israeli commando raid on a Turkish ship trying to bring aid to Gaza on May 31 killed nine activists and focused international attention on Israel's blockade of Gaza, imposed after the Islamist militant and anti-Israel Hamas violently overran the Palestinian territory in June 2007.

In letters to Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the Security Council obtained Thursday by The Associated Press, Shalev said, "Israel reserves its right under international law to use all necessary means to prevent these ships from violating the ... naval blockade."

She called on Lebanon's government "to demonstrate responsibility" and prevent the two ships, Junia and Julia, from departing

article continues
 LINK 
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## Jungle

Why more "aid" ships to Gaza ? Do they need to replenish the Gaza Mall after the big opening sale ??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-shrybman/gaza-strip-mall-did-the-e_b_650362.html



> Let's get a little perspective. The UN gave nearly $200 million in aid to Gaza in just the six months following Operation Cast Lead. It only gave $10 million in aid to Haiti following the devastating earthquake.



1.5 million people in Gaza, 10 million in Haiti... the Palestinians understand well the old saying: "The squeaky wheel gets the oil", and they are masters at squeaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxaDmAyt84g&feature=player_embedded

Don't expect to see any of this in the western media anytime soon...


----------



## 57Chevy

It just kinda makes you wonder what is really going on.
This from Jerusalem Post;

'Israel is world’s most isolated country'
 Outgoing UN envoy fears int'l delegitimization.  
NEW YORK – Outgoing Ambassador to the UN Gabriella Shalev told American journalists on Monday that Israel is “the most isolated, lonely country in the world,” and that the biggest threat to its existence is not Iranian nuclear proliferation, but international attempts to delegitimize it.

Shalev told an Israel Project luncheon in Washington that threats to Israel’s right to defend itself constitute the “first challenge” of the Jewish state, according to The Washington Times

Shalev cited Iran and tensions with the Palestinians as other significant problems, but particularly highlighted the international community’s actions toward Israel as being potentially detrimental to the country’s future.

She specifically cited European court prosecutions of Israeli officials for alleged human rights offenses and UN efforts to single out Israeli conduct for reprimand.

Shalev said that as sanctions resolutions at the UN put international pressure on Iran, Israel’s biggest threat is now those who question the Jewish state’s right to exist and defend itself, the Washington Times reported

Israel Project president Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi told The Jerusalem Post she felt Shalev’s remarks had been on point.

“Iran has been the No. 1 issue in the pro-Israel community for many years, but right now there is something of a sigh of relief that the world has come to a deeper understanding that Iran is not just Israel’s threat, it is the world’s threat,” Mizrahi said, citing sanction developments in the US, UN and Europe.

“What [Shalev] was saying was that everyone at the UN in theory supports Israel’s right to defend itself, but when it’s actualized, they stop supporting it in many cases,” Mizrahi said, citing the May 31 Gaza flotilla incident as an example.

“I think [Shalev] is right.

I think that this is a major problem, and we’re deeply, deeply concerned about it.”

article continues
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## The Bread Guy

United Nations Human Rights Council Panel to investigate Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla established


> The President of the United Nations Human Rights Council, Ambassador Sihasak Phuangketkeow, has appointed three preeminent experts to an independent international fact-finding mission to “investigate violations of international law, including international humanitarian and human rights law, resulting from the Israeli attacks on the flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian assistance” which took place on 31 May. The experts are: Judge Karl T. Hudson-Phillips, Sir Desmond de Silva, and Mary Shanthi Dairiam*.
> 
> In announcing their appointment, Ambassador Sihasak Phuangketkeow said: "The expertise, independence and impartiality of the members of the mission will be devoted to clarifying the events which took place that day and their legality. We call upon all parties to fully cooperate with the mission and hope that this mission will contribute to peace in the region and justice for the victims”.
> 
> The establishment of this independent international fact-finding mission was decided on 2 June 2010 by the Council with its resolution 14/1. The Council had previously held an urgent debate on the raid on the Flotilla by Israeli Defense Forces. This United Nations body deplored "the loss of life of innocent civilians" during that debate.
> 
> The experts will now define their plan of action and make contact with all relevant parties prior to travelling to the region. They are expected to report on their findings to the United Nations Human Rights Council at its fifteenth session in September 2010.
> 
> (*) Judge Karl T. Hudson-Phillips, QC (Trinidad and Tobago), served as a Judge of the International Criminal Court from 2003 to 2007. He was Attorney General and Minister of Legal Affairs of Trinidad and Tobago between 1969 and 1973. He was appointed Queen’s Counsel (QC) in 1971. He has now returned to private practice with Chambers in Trinidad and Tobago and Grenada, West Indies.
> 
> Sir Desmond de Silva, QC (United Kingdom), is a lawyer with extensive experience in human rights, war crimes, terrorism, business crime, espionage trials and sports law. He served as Chief Prosecutor of the UN backed Special Court for Sierra Leone in 2005 at the level of an Under-Secretary General of the United Nations. He has been Queen’s Counsel (QC) since 1984.
> 
> Mary Shanthi Dairiam (Malaysia) was a member of the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women from 2005 to 2008. Since 2007, she has been serving on the Gender Equality Task Force of the United Nations Development Programme. She is a founding member of the Board of Directors of the International Women’s Rights Action Watch Asia Pacific.
> 
> Learn more about the Human Rights Council: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/
> 
> For the text of resolution 14/1: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/14session/RES.14.1_AEV.pdf
> 
> OHCHR Country Page – Israel: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/MENARegion/Pages/ILIndex.aspx
> 
> OHCHR Country Page – Occupied Palestinian Territories: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/MENARegion/Pages/PSIndex.aspx



A bit more here.


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from CNN:


> A man identified as al Qaeda's No. 2 official issued a eulogy for a slain comrade and made reference to a few hot-button events in recent months: the botched Times Square car bombing, the Israeli commando flotilla strike and the proposed burqa ban in France.
> 
> The remarks came in an audio message said to be from Ayman al-Zawahiri that was posted on Islamist websites. It appeared Tuesday, but it is not clear when it was produced.
> 
> (....)
> 
> As for Turkey, he said the Turks "need to restore the dignity of the Ottoman Empire" and end all "deals and treaties" with Israel. He said change won't come via flotillas for Gaza.
> 
> The speaker was making reference to the May 31 Israeli raid on an aid flotilla headed to blockaded Gaza. Violence during the raid left nine people dead on a Turkish ship and further frayed Israel's once-close relationship to Turkey.
> 
> (....)


----------



## 57Chevy

Sir Desmond de Silva, QC (United Kingdom), is a lawyer with extensive experience in human rights, war crimes, terrorism, business crime, espionage trials and sports law. He served as Chief Prosecutor of the UN backed Special Court for Sierra Leone in 2005 at the level of an Under-Secretary General of the United Nations. He has been Queen’s Counsel (QC) since 1984.
             _______________________________________________________
Of interest to note  Sir Desmond 
Sir Desmond was knighted in the New Year Honours of 2007, and is also a Knight of the Most Venerable Order of Saint John, and a Knight Commander of the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George in its Royal Order of Francis I.


----------



## CougarKing

Another aid flotilla?

link



> *Israel tells UN it will stop Gaza aid flotilla*
> 
> 28 minutes ago
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS (AFP) - *Israel informed the United Nations Friday that it reserves the right to use force to stop a new aid flotilla from reaching the blockaded Gaza Strip.*
> 
> In a letter sent to UN chief Ban Ki-moon, Israel's UN Ambassador Gabriela Shalev said the stated intention of *the Bolivian-flagged all-women cargo ship Mariam *"is to violate the existing naval blockade of Gaza."
> 
> 
> She added that Israel also had information that another vessel, *the Naji al-Ali*, plans to leave from a Lebanese port with the aim of violating the blockade.
> 
> 
> "Israel reserves its right under international law to use all necessary means to prevent these ships from violating the aforementioned naval blockade," Shalev warned.
> 
> 
> She said such "confrontational actions by the organizers as well as those that offer their consent, is deeply troubling and requires the attention of the international community."
> 
> 
> "Israel came under international censure over its May 31 seizure of a six-ship aid fleet bound for the Palestinian territory when Israeli commandos shot dead nine Turkish activists in a clash on the lead boat.
> 
> 
> The Mariam, a Bolivian-flagged cargo ship originally named Junia Star, plans to leave from northern Lebanon for Cyprus on Sunday at 10:00 pm (1900 GMT) on the first leg of a planned voyage to Gaza, organizer Samar al-Hajj said Thursday.
> 
> 
> The vessel, renamed in honor of the Virgin Mary, plans to carry aid to Gaza in a bid to break the four-year siege of the Strip with more than 50 Lebanese and foreign women activists on board, including local pop star May Hariri.
> 
> 
> The Naji al-Ali, another Lebanese boat organised by journalists, has also announced it would sail to Gaza via Cyprus but has not yet received clearance from Lebanese authorities.


----------



## The Bread Guy

The Turkel Commission:  it was legal to raid the ship - this from Reuters:


> An Israeli inquiry cleared the government and military on Sunday of wrongdoing in the bloody seizure of a Turkish aid ship that tried to breach the Gaza blockade, saying passengers were to blame for the violence.  The Turkel Commission, whose report will form the core of Israel's submission to a U.N. inquiry into the May 31 incident, endorsed the sea closure but urged Israeli reviews of how to focus sanctions on Gaza's Hamas rulers and spare its civilians.  "By clearly resisting capture, the Mavi Marmara had become a military objective," the commission said in a 245-page report, referring to a converted cruise ship which Israeli marines boarded on the high seas after it ignored orders to turn back ....



Link to report here - summary attached.

Meanwhile, what would a report exonerating the Israelis be without someone crying "foul", right?


> .... Kevin Ovenden, of Viva Palestina, who was on the Mavi Marmara said: "The claim by Israel's Turkel Commission that Israeli forces acted legally when they killed nine people aboard the Mavi Marmara, and left another brain dead, will be laughed out of court by all but the Israeli government and its most fanatical supporters.
> 
> "This whitewash commission was set up by the Netanyahu government, the same people who commissioned the assault on the aid ship.
> 
> "It is simply unfeasible to claim that, for example, the two men shot immediately to the left and right of me, were gunned down in some act of self-defence. They were shot from above. No Israeli commando was in sight of us when the bullets rang out ....


----------



## CougarKing

Sydney Morning Herald link



> *Israel seeks UN help to stop new flotilla
> April 2, 2011 - 10:00AM*
> 
> Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called on UN chief Ban Ki-moon to stop an international flotilla of ships seeking to break Israel's Gaza blockade, Netanyahu's office says.
> 
> *The flotilla of about 15 ships with activists from 25 countries is to leave next month to mark the first anniversary of an Israeli commando raid on an aid convoy trying to get to Gaza that left nine Turkish activists dead.*
> 
> Netanyahu told Ban in a telephone call that among the organisers of the new flotilla are "extremist Islamic elements whose aim is to create a provocation and bring about a conflagration," his office said in a statement.
> 
> Advertisement: Story continues below A UN statement also said Netanyahu raised concerns about the flotilla but that Ban "stressed as well that Israel should take meaningful steps to end the closure of Gaza".
> 
> "The secretary general stressed his concern at the current difficulties in the peace process. They discussed the recent violence affecting Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. The secretary general said he hoped the prime minister would act with wisdom and restraint."
> 
> The Israeli statement said Netanyahu added that all kinds of goods could now enter Gaza by land, while the territory's Hamas rulers sought to smuggle in arms by sea.
> 
> "Hamas is a terror organisation controlled by Iran and only recently part of the huge effort to arm it and smuggle arms by sea was exposed with the capture of the 'Victoria'," the statement quoted him as saying.
> 
> *The Liberian-flagged Victoria was intercepted by Israeli commandos in mid-March about 200 nautical miles west of Israel's coast.
> 
> The army said about 50 tonnes of weapons were concealed in containers holding lentils and cotton.
> 
> The haul included tens of thousands of rounds of small-arms ammunition, more than 2,200 mortar bombs and six Chinese-made C704 anti-ship missiles.
> 
> The shipment also included two missile launchers and an advanced radar system to track targets and guide the missiles.
> 
> Israel said the missiles represented an escalation in attempts to arm militant groups in Gaza and accused arch-foe Iran of being behind the shipment.
> 
> Tehran denied any connection.*
> 
> AFP


----------



## 57Chevy

"Tehran denied any connection"  :rofl:

more info on The Victoria shipment:

 Israeli commanders were acting on intelligence reports indicating that 39 of the 100 containers on deck were loaded with Iranian weapons while at port in Syria, and were to be transferred to Hamas. The Victoria was seized about 200 nautical miles from the Israeli coast, while on its way from Turkey to El-Arish port in Egypt (other sources give the destination as Alexandria, Egypt). According to the IDF, the ship picked up the cargo in the port of Latakia in Syria and sailed to Mersin, Turkey. The ship was intercepted by Israeli Navy Sa'ar 5-class corvettes and boarded, without resistance, by commandos from Israel’s elite naval unit, Shayetet 13. The IDF says the ship's crew was unaware it was carrying concealed weapons. The ship was redirected to the port of Ashdod for further inspection. After the contraband was unloaded, Israel announced it would release the Victoria and allow it to continue its journey to the Egyptian port of Alexandria.

According to the IDF’s Deputy Navy Commander Rear Admiral Rani Ben-Yehuda, the weapons may have been transported from Iran to Syria several weeks earlier, when 2 Iranian military ships sailed through the Suez Canal.

The shipment

Concealed in three containers hidden beneath cotton bags and lentils produced in Syria were the following weapon systems:
 6 C-704 anti-ship missiles
 230 mortar shells, caliber 120mm
 2,270 mortar shells, caliber 60 mm
 2 radar systems manufactured in England
 2 rocket launchers
 2 hydraulic mounting cranes for the radar system
 66,960 7.62x39 rounds (Commonly used in the AK-47).

According to the IDF, the weapons were accompanied by user manuals in Persian. The packing slip for the 60mm mortar also included a range table for use with a model AZ111-A2 impact fuse, made exclusively by Iran. In an attempt to mislead would-be inspectors, "Made in Britain" labels were attached to all of the crates. 

Victoria Affair

provided in accordance with provisions of the Copyright Act
and from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Affair


----------



## CougarKing

Another, larger flotilla? 

link

*Pro-Palestinian activists prepare new, larger Gaza flotilla, 1 year after deadly raid*



> By Christopher Torchia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 11 minutes ago
> ISTANBUL -
> *Pro-Palestinian activists said Tuesday they are in the final stages of organizing a sea convoy to the Gaza Strip, likely to be much bigger than a similar flotilla that was raided a year ago by Israeli forces, leaving nine people dead.*
> The campaign sets up the possibility of another showdown with Israel, which eased its land blockade of Gaza following the international furor over the raid, but is gearing up to thwart any attempt to breach its blockade off the Gaza coast.
> 
> Eight Turks and one Turkish-American died in the botched commando operation on a Turkish boat, the Mavi Marmara, that was part of the flotilla on May 31, 2010. The incident drew world attention to the humanitarian situation in Gaza and plunged ties between former allies Israel and Turkey to a new low.
> 
> Activists on the boat said they acted in self-defence in international waters during the melee, but Israel says troops opened fire after coming under assault by men with clubs and axes as they rappelled from helicopters during the nighttime raid onto the ship's deck. Seven Israeli soldiers were wounded.
> 
> *Huseyin Oruc, a spokesman for IHH — an Islamic aid group that operates the Mavi Marmara — said this time an international coalition of 22 non-governmental groups hopes to send 15 vessels with up to 1,500 people. Last year, six ships and about half that number participated.*
> The target date for departure of the new flotilla is the first anniversary of the raid, but it could be delayed, partly because it clashes with Turkish election campaigning. Organizers say the new effort includes activists from Europe, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Latin America, Canada and the United States.
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was seized during the raid along with five other ships and docked in Israel, where it was thoroughly searched. On being returned to Turkey in August it was renovated by activists for the new flotilla. The boat has since become an icon for the IHH, which hands out small plastic models of the ship, emblazoned with the Turkish and Palestinian flags, to visitors at its headquarters.
> 
> "Everybody is getting ready," Oruc said in an interview with The Associated Press at the Istanbul office. He predicted that Israel, mindful of negative fallout from last year's raid, would not try a similar operation this year.
> 
> IHH is a Turkish acronym that means Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief, and many of its regional missions are aimed at helping Palestinian refugees. Israel has accused the group of terrorist links, though it is not on a U.S. list of terrorist organizations.
> 
> Israel has vehemently defended its land and sea blockade of Gaza, saying it prevents weapons from reaching Iran-backed Hamas militants who violently seized control of the territory in 2007. Last month, Israel intercepted a cargo ship in the Mediterranean that it said was carrying arms for Hamas.
> 
> *Israeli military officials say naval forces have been busy preparing for the new flotilla for weeks. They said the navy is taking the flotilla very seriously, but plans to use different tactics this time around. They declined to elaborate, but said the goal is to stop the flotilla while avoiding casualties.*The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of the operation.
> 
> Yigal Palmor, spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, said a recent conference of donors to the Palestinians had called on all parties to send any humanitarian aid through land crossings.
> 
> "People coming by sea are doing it as a provocation and are looking for violent confrontation. We call on all relevant parties to display responsibility and shun violence," said Palmor, noting aid for the region is provided by the United Nations, international groups and through the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> "There is no reason to try to circumvent the existing channels," he said.
> 
> Espen Goffeng, an activist in Norway, said the target for departure of the new flotilla was "early summer," and that activists might finalize the date at a meeting in Europe in early May.
> 
> "It's not like a march up the street," he said by telephone. "We need to buy boats, we need to buy cargo, we need to move people around, we need hotel rooms, we need food."
> 
> Turkey holds parliamentary elections on June 12. IHH, which says it plans to send 100 to 150 people on the flotilla, is inclined to launch its ship after the vote for fear any controversy could disrupt the election debate. The group communicates closely with the Turkish government, but says it does not need "permission" to send its boat to Gaza.
> 
> "We can advise, we can say something, but we cannot stop" the flotilla, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said in an interview with The Sydney Morning Herald that was published Monday.
> 
> Turkey has harshly criticized Israel since the three-week war in Gaza that ended in early 2009. In an April 20 column in The New York Times, however, President Abdullah Gul alluded to Turkey's role as a facilitator of talks between Israel and Syria before the war, saying Turkey wanted to help the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
> 
> "We are therefore ready to use our full capacity to facilitate constructive negotiations," Gul wrote. "Turkey is ready to play the role it played in the past, once Israel is ready to pursue peace with its neighbours."


----------



## SoldierInAYear

Video Survival Map of Israel 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfOpioIFZAU&feature=player_embedded


----------



## George Wallace

This may be interesting to track (please excuse it having being posted in ref to our "Page gets Fired" story, as it is more relevant here):


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



> *WORLD NEWS *
> 
> *Canadians to sail in flotilla protesting Gaza blockade
> *
> 11/06/2011 8:53:04 AM
> Ian Munroe
> 
> 
> LINK
> 
> *More than 30 Canadian activists are preparing to sail for the Gaza Strip as part of a controversial international flotilla protesting Israel's blockade of the Palestinian territory, a year after nine people were killed in a similar undertaking.*
> 
> A group called The Canada Boat to Gaza says it's raised more than $300,000 and has purchased a ship -- dubbed the Tahrir, after the uprising in Egypt -- which is docked at an eastern Mediterranean port they will not disclose.
> 
> At least 10 such ships are planning to set sail for Gaza later this month, carrying aid supplies and around 1,500 protesters from dozens of countries, according to organizers.
> 
> Ehab Lotayef, a spokesman with the Canadian group, said that several protesters from Australia, Belgium and Denmark will also be onboard the Tahrir, along with between $30,000 and $50,000 worth of medical supplies they hope to deliver to Palestinian doctors.
> 
> "Our main objective is that Israel should not have jurisdiction over the waters of Gaza," Lotayef said from Montreal. "This is the least we can do to try peacefully to break the blockade they're living under."
> 
> When six ships carrying pro-Palestinian activists, humanitarian aid and construction supplies attempted to travel to Gaza last year they were boarded by Israeli commandos in international waters. Clashes erupted onboard one vessel, the Mavi Marmara, in which eight Turkish nationals and a Turkish-American were killed.
> 
> The incident damaged relations between Israel and Turkey and deepened international pressure on Israel to lift its naval blockade.
> 
> Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said his government hopes to head off the new flotilla through diplomatic means, but will resort to force again if protesters disobey orders from the Israeli navy and try to reach Gaza's shore.
> 
> *Border controls*
> 
> At issue is an embargo that Israel imposed on Gaza after Hamas seized power in a 2007 gun battle. Hamas had unseated Fatah in elections there a year earlier, but a number of countries including Canada, the United States and members of the European Union consider Hamas a terrorist group.
> 
> Many pro-Palestinian activists say the blockade violates the rights of Gaza's 1.5 million residents. Last year, the International Committee of the Red Cross said the blockade breached international law because of its impact on civilians. Israel says it's a necessary measure, preventing Hamas from obtaining weapons with which it could attack Israeli troops or civilians.
> 
> In the wake of the Mavi Marmara raid last year Israel eased its embargo on Gaza, allowing in things like biscuits and soft drinks. Last month, Egypt also announced it was reopening its border crossing with Gaza, further loosening the embargo.
> 
> Kevin Neish, a retired marine engineer from Victoria who has been fundraising across Canada for the Tahrir, said he doesn't believe those developments go far enough toward improving living conditions in the Palestinian territory.
> 
> The protesters want the blockade lifted so that more aid can flow into Gaza and its dense population can trade freely with other countries, Neish said.
> 
> "If the people of Gaza have the blockade lifted then they won't be firing rockets at Israel," he said from Vancouver. "They'll have a normal life."
> 
> Neish, 54, was onboard the Mavi Marmara when Israeli troops boarded it in the last flotilla and he witnessed the deadly clashes that ensued. He was taken into Israeli custody and says he was subjected to "brutality" before being released a few days later.
> 
> Israel has banned Neish from visiting for a decade. But he plans to return to Gaza onboard the Mavi Marmara again this month.
> 
> The new flotilla has gained a number of high-profile supporters including three Nobel Peace Prize laureates, author Alice Walker, a former Israeli Air Force captain and a Holocaust survivor.
> 
> *Diplomatic pressure*
> 
> The protesters have also drawn criticism from officials in Canada and abroad. In a statement last month Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird called the flotilla "provocative" and "unhelpful."
> 
> "I strongly urge those wishing to deliver humanitarian goods to the Gaza Strip to do so through established channels," Baird said, citing "Israel's legitimate security concerns."
> 
> UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has indicated he would like governments to discourage activists from staging flotillas bound for Gaza because they could "escalate into violent conflict."
> 
> The Canadian group is also reportedly the focus of a million-dollar lawsuit, filed by a dual Canadian-Israeli citizen in an Ontario court, which claims that it is providing material support to Hamas.
> 
> Lotayef would not comment on the lawsuit. But he said medical supplies the Tahrir will transport, such as baby aspirin and blood pressure medicine, are intended for hospitals and clinics in Gaza that aren't associated with Hamas.
> 
> Organizers will also provide non-violence training to those who will sail on the Tahrir, he said, and are seeking an independent organization to inspect the boat before it leaves port to show that it's carrying no weapons.
> 
> Emanuel Adler, an expert on Israel at the University of Toronto, said the protesters' strategy is to court international support for Gazans on humanitarian grounds, by prompting Israel to confront the flotilla.
> 
> He believes the best way for Israel to respond is by inspecting the ships for weapons and allowing them to proceed to Gaza's shore.
> 
> "If the other side wants a response, the logical thing is not to respond," Adler said from Tel Aviv.
> 
> But he's afraid that domestic pressures in Israel, including from the country's formidable military, may lead to a different outcome.
> 
> "There's always an aspect of deterrence, that if we don't stop the flotilla this time, they'll send one three times as large."





I am sure that the Israelis will handle this the same way that they have handled all previous instances of persons trying to illegally enter Gaza from the sea.


----------



## CougarKing

An update involving other Canadians in another "aid ship"  :

link



> MONTREAL - *A ship carrying Canadian protesters bound for Gaza was prevented from leaving a port in Greece Friday as the country announced it was banning vessels heading to the blockaded strip.
> 
> Organizers said Greek coast guards boarded the ship, known as the Tahrir, and attempted to arrest a Canadian passenger for refusing to surrender the boat's registration papers.*
> Ultimately no one on board was arrested but passengers were told the ship would not be allowed to leave for Gaza, organizer Ehab Lotayef said from Montreal.
> 
> Meanwhile, another vessel carrying American protesters that tried to leave from a different Greek port was escorted back to shore.
> 
> The ships are part of a flotilla of nine Greek and foreign-flagged vessels that have been planning to break Israel's sea blockade and deliver aid to the Palestinian territory.
> 
> Israel contends its sea blockade stops weapons from reaching Iran-backed Hamas militants who control Gaza, and has warned it would stop any attempt to circumvent its restrictions.
> 
> A flotilla to Gaza last year ended in bloodshed, when nine people were killed and 45 were injured after Israeli soldiers boarded a Turkish ship.
> 
> Canadian foreign affairs Minister John Baird has called this year's convoy "provocative," while the United States and Greece had previously urged activists not to proceed with the flotilla, saying it could lead to confrontation and noted that there were other means of aid delivery.
> 
> But Canadian organizers with this year's flotilla said they aren't breaking any laws and will continue attempts to sail to Gaza.
> 
> "It is the blockade of Gaza that is illegal under international law," organizer Dylan Penner, who is in Greece, said in a statement.
> 
> "We have a legal and moral obligation to challenge the blockade, given the failure of the international community to act."
> 
> Despite the difficulties Friday, organizers said the Canadian delegation remains in good spirits.
> 
> Demonstrations supporting the flotilla are being organized for Saturday outside Greek consulates in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver, as well as the embassy in Ottawa.
> 
> "The protests will be continued on the streets of many countries around the world," Lotayef said.
> 
> The setback on Friday followed a week of administrative delays that organizers attributed to Israeli pressure on Greece, which is mired in an economic crisis and has grown closer to Israel as it seeks more foreign investment.
> 
> On Thursday, an Irish ship said it had to abandon plans to set sail from the Turkish town of Gocek because of what it called Israeli sabotage.
> 
> Earlier this week, activists said the propeller of a Swedish ship in a Greek port was sabotaged. Israel has not commented on the reports.
> 
> Greece's Civil Protection Ministry said coast guard authorities were ordered to take "all appropriate measures'' to implement the ban on vessels setting sail for Gaza.
> 
> It also said the "broader maritime area of the eastern Mediterranean will be continuously monitored by electronic means for tracking, where applicable, the movements of the ships allegedly participating'' in the flotilla.
> 
> — with files from The Associated Press


----------



## The Bread Guy

> Canada's new official Opposition appealed directly to Israel not to harm a boatload of Canadian protesters determined to break the Gaza Strip blockade.
> 
> NDP Leader Jack Layton and foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar delivered that plea directly to Israel's ambassador to Canada, Miriam Ziv, during a meeting at the opposition leader's office in early June.
> 
> They were trying to prevent a repeat of last year's tragedy when nine activists taking part in a similar flotilla on a Turkish boat were killed in a raid by Israeli commandos.
> 
> "Obviously, when there's a loss of lives involved everyone should take heed," Dewar said in an interview Tuesday.
> 
> He and Layton urged Israel to observe "an abundance of caution and care dealing with the flotilla because it was pretty clear it was going to be happening." Dewar said Ziv listened politely. She was not available for an interview ....


Source:  The Canadian Press, 5 Jul 11


----------



## The Bread Guy

A reminder from Foreign Affairs - highlights mine:


> The Government of Canada takes the safety and security of Canadians abroad very seriously and endeavours to provide Canadian travellers the best possible advice so that they can take informed decisions.
> 
> The security situation along the coast of Gaza remains volatile. Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada (DFAIT) advises against all travel to the Gaza Strip. See full travel report.
> 
> On May 28, Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird also issued a statement advising Canadians not to participate in the Gaza flotilla. The Canadian government provides consular assistance within its mandate and its ability to do so.
> 
> *The border around the Gaza Strip is under the control of Israeli and Egyptian authorities. Canadians who break the laws of another country are subject to the judicial system of that country. *DFAIT can neither offer protection from the consequences of such actions nor override the decisions of local authorities.
> 
> *The decision to travel is the sole responsibility of the traveller, and travellers are responsible for their own personal safety.* It is strongly recommended that Canadians who choose to travel to the Gaza Strip register with the Registration of Canadians Abroad service (ROCA) prior to leaving.


Source:  DFAIT advisory, 7 Jul 11

As Tony Baretta and others have said in the past, don't do the crime if you can't do the time....


----------



## Journeyman

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> He and Layton urged Israel to observe "an abundance of caution and care dealing with the flotilla because it was pretty clear it was going to be happening."


Did they make a similar appeal to those organizing the flotilla? No; I didn't think so.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

When is Layton going to finally get it into his head that he did not win the election and he is not the Prime Minister? :


----------



## medicineman

He takes his lead from Bono, who feels he can go around telling heads of state how to spend their money, so Jacko naturally believes he's got the priviledge of telling people how to defend and police their borders.

MM


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## CougarKing

Youtube link



> *CPS Gaza boat and crew were attacked with water cannons on 13 Jule 2011 at midday. The boat filled with water, as those aboard were hit in the face with powerful blasts of water.*
> The attack occurred at 2 miles out to sea, well within the 3-mile limit imposed by Israel.
> 
> The crew was monitoring human rights violations committed against Gazan fishermen


----------



## Edward Campbell

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> Youtube link
> 
> The crew was monitoring *alleged* human rights violations committed against Gazan fishermen




FTFY


----------



## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The crew was monitoring *alleged* human rights violations committed against Gazan fishermen
> 
> FTFY


Ah, but for the Civil Peace Service Gaza (producer/sharer of said video), it's guilty until .... well, just guilty because they say so....


> .... For the second consecutive day, the CPSGAZA human rights monitoring boat came under sustained attack by Israeli naval forces, and was threatened for the first time with lethal force.
> 
> At approximately 8:15 am, two Israeli gunboats approached the Oliva as it cruised within the three-nautical mile fishing zone unilaterally imposed and enforced by Israeli forces.
> 
> After circling it several times, they opened fire on it with water cannons, nearly filling it with water in an apparent attempt to sink it.
> 
> Two United States crew members and the Palestinian captain were rescued from the vessel, in imminent danger of capsizing, by a small fishing boat, which transported them to a nearby trawler.
> 
> One of the warships then circled the trawler for nearly an hour, firing water cannons at it and taunting its fishing crew over its loudspeaker with cries of, "Where are your fish? Show me your fish!"
> 
> The warship eventually departed, after an amplified warning that if it returned to the sea, the Israeli navy would shoot both Palestinian fishermen and international human rights observers ....


----------



## The Bread Guy

> In accordance with government directives, after all diplomatic channels had been exhausted and continuous calls to the vessel had been ignored, *IDF Navy soldiers boarded the Al-Karame in an effort to stop it from breaking the maritime security blockade on the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Upon expressing their unwillingness to arrive at the Ashdod port, it was unequivocally necessary to board the vessel and lead it to Ashdod.*
> 
> The soldiers operated in line with procedures and took every precaution necessary while using all operational tactics determined prior to the operation, and avoid causing harm to the activists on-board while ensuring the safety of the soldiers. Following the boarding, the passengers’ health was examined and they were offered food and beverages.
> 
> Upon the arrival of the vessel at the Ashdod port, the relevant security authorities and the Israel Police will begin the process of questioning the passengers, who will then be transferred to the Ministry of Interior and the Immigration authorities ....


Source:  IDF news release, 19 Jul 11


----------



## Edward Campbell

The _Globe and Mail_ is reporting that the UN Report on the Gaza incident has been leaked to the _NY Times_ and that report says "Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip was legal ... The report by a panel of investigators, which was due to be released on Friday but was leaked in full to the Times, also said that Israeli commandos faced “organized and violent resistance from a group of passengers.”"


----------



## Edward Campbell

And Turkey has rattled a (diplomatic) sabre by expelling the Israeli ambassador.

The report which, according to the article, called for a restoration of _"... full diplomatic relations, repairing their relationship in the interests of stability in the Middle East and international peace and security ...”_ must come as a major disappointment to Turkey which is trying to burnish its image with both the EU and the Arabs and West Asians at the same time; joining the anti-Israel camp is good politics even if it is bad policy. I also think it is fruitless policy: Europe is not going to accept the Turks as Europeans and the Arabs are not going to accept them as anything else.


----------



## The Bread Guy

As for the latest Canadians who tried (and failed) to get through, they're upset Canada's not paying for their deportation flights out of Israel  :'(


> With several Canadians still languishing in an Israeli prison, organizers of the Canadian Boat to Gaza are demanding Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird step down for failing to do his job.
> 
> "Our friends have been assaulted, tasered, beaten, kidnapped, robbed, and imprisoned and we have now learned that the Department Foreign Affairs is telling them they have to pay for their deportation flight," says Wendy Goldsmith, an organizer with the Canadian Boat to Gaza.
> 
> "If Minister Baird wants to put the interests of a far-right Israeli government before Canadians, he should apply for the job of Israel's ambassador," adds Goldsmith. "Otherwise he should demand the immediate release of the Canadian political prisoners in Israel and an immediate end to Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza. Unfortunately, when it comes to Israel, Baird is soft on crime."
> 
> The Canadian Boat to Gaza organizers say the minister has failed to seek the immediate release of the Canadians and internationals who have been political prisoners of Israel since Friday. Instead, they say, the minister has been spreading misinformation in an attempt to justify Israel's illegal actions.
> 
> "Canadians are still imprisoned by Israel because they refuse to sign documents that falsely claim they entered Israel 'voluntarily' and 'illegally'," says Dylan Penner, an organizer with the Canadian Boat to Gaza.
> 
> "The fact is they were kidnapped and taken there against their will," says Penner. "But Minister Baird is trying to create the impression that international waters are Israeli waters. He should really look at a map and stop misleading Canadians about international law."
> 
> Two tweets from the Department of Foreign Affairs last week advised Canadians to "avoid all travel" to "regions of #Israel surrounding the #Gaza Strip." However, there are no Israeli waters "surrounding" Gaza. There are Gaza's coastal waters beyond which are international waters. The Israeli Navy captured the boat in international waters (approximately 50 nautical miles from the coast of Gaza), not Israeli waters. This is a violation of international law ....


rabble.ca, 8 Nov 11


----------



## vonGarvin

:rofl:



Oh, wait, they were serious?  For a minute here I thought I was in Radio Chatter, reading jokes...


(stupid hippies)


----------



## The Bread Guy

Note to rabble.ca headline writers:  arrest =/= "abduct"


> Three Canadians, who were forcibly abducted from the Canadian ship Tahrir by Israel and detained without charge this past fall, are demanding the Conservative government press Israel to return the boat and its contents. And they are taking this message directly to nine communities from coast to coast in an upcoming speaking tour beginning February 15 to address Canada’s role in the blockade of Gaza and give their firsthand account of the capture at sea of the Tahrir ....


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight................  Remainder of piece attached since we don't want to up rabble.ca's hit rate.


----------



## George Wallace

And look at what we have here:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



> *WORLD NEWS *
> 
> *Family of former MP detained in Israel appeals for help
> *
> 22/10/2012 11:37:00 AM
> CTVNews.ca Staff
> 
> 
> LINK
> 
> *The family of a former Canadian MP detained in Israel is calling on Ottawa to help secure his release.*
> 
> Jim Manly, a former NDP MP for Vancouver Island, was one of about 30 activists on board the Gaza-bound ship Estelle, which was intercepted by Israeli authorities over the weekend.
> 
> The 79-year-old's family issued a statement early Monday urging Prime Minister Stephen Harper to contact authorities in Israel and speak up in Manly's defence.
> 
> "If Canada and Israel are the close allies that the Prime Minister has said they are, then he should be able to secure my father release with one quick phone call," the statement read.
> 
> Estelle set sail from a port in Naples, Italy on Oct. 7 with individuals from about 30 countries. A spokesperson says the activists are involved with a project called "Gaza's Ark," which aims to build a boat in the Hamas-owned strip and challenge the Israeli blockade of the area.
> 
> The activists were transporting school, medical and building supplies, as well as an anchor for the ship they hope to build, spokesperson David Heap told CTV's Canada AM Monday.
> 
> That plan was derailed Sunday when six Israeli naval vessels stopped Estelle, which was about 30 nautical miles from Gaza. Masked soldiers boarded the ship and ordered it to an Israeli port.
> 
> Manly's son Paul says his father has been detained by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) and charged with immigration offences. Paul has said that his father is in good health, but the family remains concerned about his wellbeing and whether he'll have access to the medicine he takes each day.
> 
> Paul Manly reiterated the family's ongoing appeal to Ottawa in an interview with CTV British Columbia.
> 
> "It would be nice to hear some politicians speak out in support of a retired member of parliament who stuck his neck out to help people in less fortunate parts of the world," he said Sunday.
> 
> Canada's Foreign Affairs department has advised Canadians to avoid all travel to the Gaza strip and the surrounding region. In particular, citizens are urged against trying to break Israel's naval blockade.
> 
> Rick Roth, press secretary for Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird, said Ottawa has "strongly urged" those wishing to deliver humanitarian goods to Gaza to do so through official channels.
> 
> "Unauthorized efforts to deliver aid are provocative and, ultimately, unhelpful to the people of Gaza," Roth said in a statement issued to CTV News Monday.
> 
> "Canada recognizes Israel's legitimate security concerns and its right to protect itself and its residents from attacks by Hamas and other terrorist groups, including by preventing the smuggling of weapons."
> 
> The travel advisory for the Gaza Strip makes reference to Estelle, noting that "consular officials may not be able to provide consular assistance to Canadians who choose to participate in the flotilla."
> 
> Meanwhile, Israeli officials have deported some of Manly's fellow activists.
> 
> David Heap, a spokesperson for the Gaza's Ark project, said Monday that at least nine activists have been deported thus far: one from Italy, three from Spain and five from Greece.
> 
> However, according to Heap, most of the activists on board Estelle remain in prison.
> 
> "The Israelis say the conditions for a speedy release would be that they have to sign a document admitting that they entered Israel illegally," Heap told CTV's Canada AM on Monday.
> 
> He added that the remaining activists refuse to sign the confession.
> 
> Heap, a Canadian who was on board a Gaza-bound ship last year, said the Gaza's Ark project will continue each year until Israel ends its blockade of the region.
> 
> "Is it worth it to stand in solidarity with people who are denied their rights? Always. Always and without exception," he said in an interview from Gaza.
> 
> Israel imposed the air, land and sea blockade in 2007 after Hamas seized control of Gaza.
> 
> With a report from CTV British Columbia's Lisa Rossington





People who don't take the word of Israel seriously and then try to impose their outside beliefs on another sovereign nation really validate the comments about belonging to the "Gene Pool".


----------



## Kat Stevens

So this chap hoped to lend his somewhat celebretard status to this enterprise, and his family are genuinely dismayed when Israel did exactly what they told everyone they'd do should the blockade be run?  And now they ask the PM to exert his influence on his behalf.  Hmmm, if only there were some way this whole sorry tale could have been avoided....


----------



## medicineman

I'm still amazed at how many people in the world think that being a foreign national automatically confers legal immunity in other countries... :

MM


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Can we pay the Israelis to keep him?


----------



## Haletown

Wonder if it ever enters their ever so progressive brains that they might do much more for humanity by focusing their rage on the folks perpetrating the genocide in Syria that has resulted in 30,000+ dead innocents? It is just a few hundred miles away, they could easily get their boat there.

Probably not. They seem to be fixated on other minor issues.


----------



## GAP

Nah, they've bought in, hook, line and sinker to the poor Palestinian situation......


----------

