# Avionics Systems Technician ( AVS )



## jet30 (17 Jan 2006)

I'm planning to join the air force as an AVS tech I was wandering how is the training? And how is the work condition after? And what is the average age of the students. Thanks.


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## Eagle_Eye_View (17 Jan 2006)

You start your training by doing your POET in Kingston during 8 months. Over there you'll learn all about electronics. Once completed, you'll go back to Borden and finish up your AVS QL3 for 6 months. Once its done you'll get posted somewhere and start working on the A/C with a supervisor or a journeyman. 
The average of my class was about 26 years old. You'll meet poeple from all ages and all around the country.
good luck!


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## .68 (23 Feb 2006)

Hey guys, I an AVS student here in Borden aka bordom, lol

Ive finished POET and will be starting my AVS 3's in Late march this year.

There is a lot of rumor and speculation on which base is going to be the best for your carreer. Eg. Trenton is to big, ull be just another grey man etc etc

Mabey if some of you guys have any experience with bases across canada, you can shed some light and mabey help me make a more informed decision, when it comes time to go to my Sqn.

Thx


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## Furniture (23 Feb 2006)

I'm not sure what individual units are like, but Cold Lake is a great base if you aren't single and like outdoor activities like fishing and hunting.


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## beenthere (23 Feb 2006)

Cold Lake or Comox would be my pick for career and location. Both career/experience and location are important factors in getting a good start in the military. Cold Lake may be a bit isolated and could be a bit of a challenge as far as social life goes but it's a great place to work and live. Also if you have never experienced the" great Canadian outdoors" Cold Lake is a great experience. Wimmen ain't everything.


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## .68 (5 May 2006)

Hey, just a heads up if you have not already heard.

The AVS TP changed a bit... im on course here in CFSATE now and were looking at changes.

6 months Kingston for POET

and 12 to 18 months for QL3 in Borden.

Were the pilot course for it now...bring on the fun!


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## Bald Eagle (21 Nov 2006)

can somebody confirm that this trade is spec pay?

i can't seem to find the info   ???


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## aesop081 (21 Nov 2006)

Bald Eagle said:
			
		

> can somebody confirm that this trade is spec pay?
> 
> i can't seem to find the info   ???



Yes.......AVS is part of the specialist 1 pay group

if you couldnt find that i suspect you are blind.


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## Bald Eagle (21 Nov 2006)

wow


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## Bald Eagle (1 Oct 2007)

Hey all,

Just curious to know what should I expect when I arrive in Shearwater for my 3's later this year. How is training is conducted there? I know they bus you from the base to school. Do you get mixed with civi's on the program? Or is it all military in the class? Which campus is it in by the way?

Also, is there a March Break just like here in CFSATE? That's if you still have annuals left. Or is it continuous trg with only Christmas break?

Thanks for all the input,
Bald Eagle


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## pteosborne (2 Oct 2007)

some avs buddies of mine have done the course so i'll ask
but I imagine you will get christmas, march break and summer block leave in order to use up all 20 days
I'll post when I know more
cheers  OZ


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## tibor23 (9 Oct 2007)

I took the civie course last year at NSCC and can answer a few of your questions.  When I was there the military had their own classes that were separate and were taught by different instructors than the civie program.  Also the course is run out of 4 Hanger at Shearwater.

Cheers!


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## Tollboothwilli3 (14 Oct 2007)

Hey,

I took the shearwater avs 3's course, you march from the shacks to 4 hanger in shearwater for class. its a civy school with civy planes. shacks there are way better than borden, you get yopur own room with free cable tv and fridge!


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## dan_282 (16 Dec 2007)

hey guys, im looking to do some studying on avionics before i consider joining, any books you recommend i could buy? thanks


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## CallOfDuty (18 Dec 2007)

Check this website out for electronics theory....www.allaboutcircuits.com
C.O.D.


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## RoxyRoller (1 Jan 2008)

My fingerprints were sent away beginning of December 07, when they are back and I'm granted security clearance, I will be merit listed. Does anyone have any idea when I might actually start basic?? How long is the training in Borden? And what does QL3 mean??  Thankyou...


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## George Wallace (1 Jan 2008)

RoxyRoller said:
			
		

> My fingerprints were sent away beginning of December 07, when they are back and I'm granted security clearance, I will be merit listed. Does anyone have any idea when I might actually start basic?? How long is the training in Borden? And what does QL3 mean??  Thankyou...



Fingerprints?  

Basic?

QL3?

If you were fingerprinted, you can expect that process to take some time.  As that is not the norm, your embarking on Basic (BMQ) will be another delay.  QL3 is your Trades Training, in your case the AVS Tech Course.  

All times are dependent on your first passing the Security Screening and then when an opening on a BMQ Course becomes available after that.  We can only guess.  Three months to two years.


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## RoxyRoller (2 Jan 2008)

Ahhhh.....that's what I was figuring. Thankyou for the reply. Another question, on the recruiting website, it says QL3 in Borden is 24 months, but I've read that it has changed. Do you know how long it is?


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## navymich (2 Jan 2008)

RoxyRoller said:
			
		

> Ahhhh.....that's what I was figuring. Thankyou for the reply. Another question, on the recruiting website, it says QL3 in Borden is 24 months, but I've read that it has changed. Do you know how long it is?



Where you read it had changed, did it not give specifics on what the change was to?

There is a sub-board on this site called  Maintainer's Bench.  There are some great posts on it about AVS, and it should help answer your question and lots others that you might come up with.  You can also use the 'Search' function to track down more information.


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## Cat (6 Jan 2008)

OK - I have a few questions on this - assuming I have the correct trade - Avionics Systems Technician???

I was wondering what the course layout was like. I get BMQ - first month confined to quarters basically, next few weeks you have weekend off(at the instructors good graces), can take leave - visit family and whatnot.

Are the AVS courses set up like this as well, with weekend leaves available? Or is is more the 24/7 except for block leave. I ask this simply because my better half is very worried that I'm going to disappear off the face of the planet until I'm done training - and because of his job would be unable/unwilling to move until I had a posting out of training.

Thanks in Advance


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## smale436 (6 Jan 2008)

As an AVS tech who has spent some time in Borden, I can probably answer some of your questions. When you arrive at CFSATE from BMQ, you will be given a few relocation days off to clear into the base. Then you will become part of the PAT Platoon. (Personnel awaiting training) while awaiting your POET course in Kingston. I had a 4 month wait for my POET, but there are a lot less people there than when I first arrived there so the waits have not been as long. The new PAT staff have greatly improved PAT in the last few months. There are a lot more taskings and a lot less sitting in the canteen staring at the walls. That being said, it is what you make of it and keeping in mind you are getting paid a heck of a lot plus banking pensionable time will help keep you in perspective. 

      If your course does not start for a while, you will have the opportunity to take leave. As far as weekend leave, you will get every weekend off. Unless there is a parade or there are problems in the shacks with behaviour and the SCWO is forced to initiate a weekend inspection. However in the year and a half I was there weekends were threatened to be revoked several times but it never happened. You need a leave pass if you are going beyond a 500 km radius if I remember correctly. You do need one for Quebec. If you are staying in the radius but not in the shacks/PMQ, you fill out the weekend locater. Simple as that. So as far as you husband/BF/whatever worrying about you disappearing for a while, no need. If he lives in Ontario, you will be seeing him quite frequently.


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## RTaylor (15 Mar 2008)

AVS training in Shearwater? Awesome...so once I'm done with the POET training I may be shipped back to Nova Scotia for more? Awesome news...first time I've seen this (not on the forces.ca website at all, no surprise there though).

Is it still being ran this way? Best news Ive come across 

Oh, and how solid does the math skills have to be? Im a bit rusty, but out of the blue I passed Physics Math (survey physics) by barely scraping by (hard as hell). I heard the military starts at the most basic level when they teach you a skill you need to know for tech courses.

Thanks


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## smale436 (16 Mar 2008)

Yes they are still conducting AVS QL3 in Shearwater at NSCC Aviation Institute. I graduated there on March 7 and am now waiting for my message to Cold Lake which has been delayed due to the semi-isolated screening process. I can answer any questions about it you may have, although I assume you still have to go do your POET training. As of now, the seventh serial is beginning tomorrow and I believe the contract is for more two more courses after that minimum. So you may be finish your POET and sent here. However they are still running a limited number of english QL3 in Borden, but that is mostly for people who have been having outstanding "issues", whether administrative or personal. I don't know if you have a family, but as it is five months long you are on a "prohibited" posting when you come here. You cannot get a PMQ or move your family at the Crown's expense. You do not get TD pay or free R and Q either, unless you come IR and collect Sep Expense, which is what the people who leave their families in Borden or wherever do. The nice thing is you can de-link from the rations unlike Borden, but the food here is excellent so it is not necessary. I did though to have a little extra each pay and was still able to eat well by eating in the mess occasionally and buying groceries. You also get a single room while you are here.
     As for the math, it is really nothing to sweat in POET and definitely not here. In POET, they will teach you everything from the basics you need to know. The only math here we did was calculations of frequencies of doppler radar. Kids stuff! 

            Good luck in POET!


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## Klinkaroo (17 Mar 2008)

Hoping to join soon as an AVS in august. Will the course still be in shearwater? I suppose so since from what I have read borden is crammed...


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## aesop081 (17 Mar 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> I suppose so since from what I have read borden is crammed...



Why dont you just wait and see.


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## RTaylor (17 Mar 2008)

The new budget is out in a few weeks (April sometime) so it will probably depend on that.

My jaw would drop to the floor and I'd be uber happy if it was in Shearwater.


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## yoeun (10 Sep 2008)

Just curious if i go ahead with the idea about joining. I'm waiting on my file to go through and i'll get an answer on when to be sworn in. where will i be stationed? Its hard to find an avionics technician in the civilian world who knows anything at all about the CF airforce.

1. - I also have a question about the quality of life. I love change, and I'm always up for it. But I also know there will be a time in my life time where i want to settle in one place. Will there be a time where I will have a permanent place?

2.  - Also how frequent aill the CF move me around? (just an estimate will be fine)

3.  - As an AVS tech, where will i be stationed most likely? I've checked the DND website but theres not a lot of info i need from there yet.

4. -  How much of a man shortage does the CF air force have? When did all this happen?

5. -  How does work compare to civilian. I've worked as a civilian Avionics technician. And we have about 1 avionics guy for every 10 mechanical guys. Now do avionics technicians actually do "avionics" or what ever you're good at they'll put you into, thats somewhat related to avionics. ex paper pusher for new installation and documentation?

6. -  Any retired AVS techs here or know anyone? Could someone share their experiences as an AVS or AVN tech?

thankx


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## aesop081 (10 Sep 2008)

yoeun said:
			
		

> . But I also know there will be a time in my life time where i want to settle in one place. Will there be a time where I will have a permanent place?



No. You may be in one place longer than others but a posting is always just around the corner.



> 2.  - Also how frequent aill the CF move me around? (just an estimate will be fine)



Could be anywhere from 10 years + in one place to moving every 3-4. I've been in the CF for 16 years and i'm on my 5th posting.....more to come.



> 3.  - As an AVS tech, where will i be stationed most likely?



Anywhere CF aircraft are based.



> . Now do avionics technicians actually do "avionics" or what ever you're good at they'll put you into, thats somewhat related to avionics. ex paper pusher for new installation and documentation?



The AVS techs at my unit work avionics. They also perform aircraft servicing along with technicians from the other trades. When you hit a certain rank, the job involves managing the maintenance program and the paperwork, just like anywhere else.


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## Sparkplugs (14 Sep 2008)

And FYI, it's pretty easy not to be a grey man in Trenton.  The AVS techs on the snags crew work with the rest of us on servicing, and though there aren't as many as them, we all know who they are.  The crews are big, but still pretty family-like.


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## RTaylor (26 Oct 2008)

hey all

I'm 3 weeks from graduating bmq but haven't heard about the next avs tech course at all. Does anyone know when it starts? Poet comes first I'm sure and some people tell me that common core is part of my training but I'm sure that avs doesn't take it because we have poet.

Thanks a bunch, no one here seems to be able to find anything out ex epcept for avn info


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## smale436 (27 Oct 2008)

I would not worry too much about the date of the AVS course. I know you are interested, but focus all of your remaining energy and effort into the remainder of BMQ. Judging by your previous posts you went through a lot of BS to finally get to BMQ so enjoy the last few weeks as they are usually the best ones. Your AVS course may not start for a year. POET will be 7 months and that is not counting if you have to wait on PAT platoon for a few months until the next POET course starts. Yes you have to do common core when you return from Kingston. It has been pared down to a month and a bit. It used to be 3 months. POET teaches you NOTHING that is related to common core. Oh and the last course in Shearwater at NSCC graduates in December and the contract will then be over so you won't be going there. The longer pat wait is usually between common core and 3's. Myself I had a four month wait between BMQ and POET and 4 month wait between CCore and 3's.

        My CFSATE experience spanned between April 06 and Mar 08 so my knowledge is recent. Let me know if you have more questions.


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## RTaylor (27 Oct 2008)

Do you happen to know if I end up on PAT if i'm there for any amount of time if I can apply for ojt at a base near my home, and if so what are the chances of getting it?


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## smale436 (27 Oct 2008)

When you get to Borden from St. Jean, you will get a few days relocation to clear in and settle yourself into the shacks. If you are single or on IR you WILL move into the shacks. I would not really say that they have much OJT available for PATS in Borden. When I arrived in Shearwater three weeks prior to my 3's starting, they had us working at 423 Squadron and we were not allowed to do much if anything. I don't know where your home is so I cannot say a definite answer as to if and where OJT would be available. I know that when I left Borden a year ago, PAT was becoming a lot more efficient at course loading people so they did not have to sit in the canteen watching movies for monthstherefore the need for long term taskings has decreased. You can submit a memo for a tasking or OJT if you desire, but seeing that virtually every new person at CFSATE does that, don't be surprised if it gets denied right in front of you. More common and available than OJT were general taskings out of town. I went to the Nova Scotia Tattoo for a month and went to work in Cold Lake for WASF duties during Maple Flag for 3 months. Some people went to Winnipeg for 2 months to paint pedestal planes. Some people were even slated to go to Alert for GD but I am not certain if that happened. 
     The main factor in whether they send people to a TASKING out of town is the approximate time from your arrival at CFSATE until your proposed course date. Even if they had OJT/tasking in your home location, they likely would not send you if your course is starting in a month or less. However if something is available and you are an eligible candidate, they will ask for volunteers or tell you that you have been selected to fill the duty. Bottom line is if they offer you a tasking anywhere, TAKE IT! Whether it is moving furniture for a day for RQSS in Borden, working at clothing stores in Borden, going to Cold Lake, or a parade in Toronto. (I've done all those things). I know from experience that even as a QL3 qualified person, I am limited in what I can/cannot do. A PAT with no qualifications would be even more limited in what they have to offer a squadron as far as a "hands on the aircraft basis." Hence the scaling down of sending people specifically for OJT.  Not to be discouraging but just being honest based on my own experiences.


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## RTaylor (28 Oct 2008)

Ive been told that since I live 30 mins from greenwood and I own a home plus my wife and kids are there I may stand a better chance... Plus the warrant officer who heads up the avs techs is the hubby of a friend of mine. 

The least I can do is put in the memo, it can't hurt


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## smale436 (28 Oct 2008)

Then by all means submit a memo. Just keep on mind that until you return from POET and finish common core and get on course, you are under the control of the PAT office, which means that they will be the ones handling all the OJT requests and memos and ultimately deciding whether to forward them to the SCWO or his delegate for approval. The WO you speak of is likely an AVS flight or course director and they don't deal with PATS. He probably heads up AVS techs ON AVS QL3 course. Your logic makes sense as you own a home and left your kids there, but lots of people do that. It's just par for the course. I knew lots of people who also "knew people" at CFSATE or the bases offering the OJT but still didn't go based on the short time until the start of their course. Plus if their are other married or even single guys who have an OJT memo in the process, they won't cancel their chance of going just because you live in Greenwood and they don't. I never saw any tasking opportunities in Greenwood. 

     Lots of factors to deal with...........


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## belka (28 Oct 2008)

The military will put you where the military needs you. I'd worry about your studies and getting through the AVS course. Don't get focused on where you will get posted 2 years from now.


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## aesop081 (28 Oct 2008)

RTaylor said:
			
		

> Ive been told that since I live 30 mins from greenwood and I own a home plus my wife and kids are there I may stand a better chance...



Let me tell you the story of 2 guys i know...........

1 is a tech in Greenwood......remusters to another trade

1 is a tech in Comox....remusters to another trade ( same new trade as the first guy)

Both had homes, both had wives with jobs, both had been in location for years.

Can you see how this story end ?

One got posted to Greenwood, the other went to Comox........I'm sure you have figured out who went where by now.

Your chances of moving are just as good as anyone elses.


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## RTaylor (28 Oct 2008)

My wifes cousins fiancé is on pat/ojt in Greenwood. Same situation as me. If I get loaded onto course quickly my wife is going to move up with me, but if I end up on pat I'll search for a 4 leaf clover and put in a memo. Xmas is around the corner and I have 14 days of leave accrued so if worse comes to worse I'll just have a nice holiday.


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## PMedMoe (28 Oct 2008)

RTaylor, I believe NINJA and CDN Aviator are thinking you're looking to be posted to Greenwood.  While I'm sure that wouldn't bother you, what I get from this thread is that you are hoping to be able to do OJT in Greenwood, if there's a long wait for your course.


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## RTaylor (28 Oct 2008)

yeah Moe I'm not worried about my posting at all...I just don't want to be sitting on pat feeling useless away from my family.


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## smale436 (28 Oct 2008)

"If I get loaded onto course quickly my wife is going to move up with me."

         Just some info. You can apply for housing/PMQ/whatever in BORDEN when you get there and report to PAT. If she does move out to Borden and you get loaded on your POET course, you will be going to Kingston IR and she will NOT be moving up to Kingston with you. POET is a seven month attached posting with free R/Q and TD (or sep expense) You won't be able to move her there for 7 months and then back to Borden while you attend your AVS QL3. Most people in your situation had their families brought down soon after getting to CFSATE from BMQ and they commuted to Borden on the weekends while they were in Kingston. When they returned from Kingston, their families were already settled in. With PAT time you could be in Borden up to 18 months, so consider the benefits of moving your family there since there is NO guarantee of you going back to Greenwood for a posting after you finish your time at CFSATE.


 ;D I just knew this was a thread that Cdn Aviator would get in on....


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## RTaylor (30 Oct 2008)

Couple of weeks till grad...2 weeks of Farnham in the wet cold and then shazam, I'm all done here in Paradise. I've been talking to some of the guys getting posted to Bordom to PAT and they've been lucky and have been able to get on OJT on other bases (AVN and AVS) so maybe I'll be lucky. If not I have vacation and Xmas 

I have another question though...how long will I be wearing the cornflake for? Or do I swap that for the Air Force cap badge when I get out of here? I've heard different things but I'd really like to know.


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## smale436 (30 Oct 2008)

As soon as you report to PAT platoon they will make you clear into the base. You may take CFSATE taxi or they might have someone drive you around. Either way, one of the stops you will be making is clothing stores where you will have the tailor sew an Air Operations cap badge on your wedge and beret. Cornflakes are fod hazards and being that CFSATE has active hangars, the cornflake is not permitted. I guarantee that if you are seen wearing it by anyone they will ask why you still have it on.
     You can ask for it in St. Jean before you leave I suppose, but given that I did not do my BMQ there I don't know the chances of you getting one are. Better to wait till you get to Borden clothing. They deal with that all the time.


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## aerobat (10 Nov 2008)

RTaylor said:
			
		

> I have another question though...how long will I be wearing the cornflake for? Or do I swap that for the Air Force cap badge when I get out of here? I've heard different things but I'd really like to know.



You will get it replaced by the air command badge when you arrive in borden`(within a couple of days anyway) I heard that it is because it is considered fod as the cornflake may fall off. I am not sure if that is true, but either way you get it!!!


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## aesop081 (10 Nov 2008)

aerobat said:
			
		

> I heard that it is because it is considered fod as the cornflake may fall off.



Since no your beret or wedge are not worn in the hangar or on the flightline, your hat badge is not a FOD issue.


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## aerobat (10 Nov 2008)

good point


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## RTaylor (14 Nov 2008)

So do I still get rid of my cornflake for the real thing when I hit Borden next week?


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## smale436 (14 Nov 2008)

As I explained in great detail in my earlier post, yes you will be getting rid of it within days of getting there as part of your clear-in process. And the cornflake is indeed a fod hazard for the simple reason that parades, inspections, and other things are often conducted in the Stedman Building (the main hangar at CFSATE) where you WILL be wearing your beret or wedge. These hangars have some aircraft that are still in running condition (and are used for teaching marshalling) and a metal cap badge could pose a danger if lost somewhere within them.


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## RTaylor (14 Nov 2008)

Thanks CDN, I really hate my metal cornflake and cant wait till I get the Air Force cap badge...yay n_n

I graduate on Thursday and hit Borden on Friday, Im really looking forward to getting out of St Jean.


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## eurowing (14 Nov 2008)

Call me a dinosaur, but I wish you still had to earn the cap badge.  When I went through Shilo in 76, we did not get the hat badge until graduation from QL3.  Following my remuster in 80 to Aero Engine Tech, the Air Ops cap badge was not worn until Graduation Day.  I might add though, in those days the remuster was not "effective" until you passed.  So, we (entire course were remusters) resisted rebadging until we passed our 3's.


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## aesop081 (15 Nov 2008)

CDNAIRFORCE said:
			
		

> These hangars have some aircraft that are still in running condition (and are used for teaching marshalling) and a metal cap badge could pose a danger if lost somewhere within them.



Alon with all the pens and the million other things everyone carries on them in the course of a day.

"no metal cap badges because that is FOD"........ :

Might as well start wearing cloth nametags on our DEUs or sew medals directly to the tunic while we are at it. 

But yeah.....what do i know.


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## RTaylor (15 Nov 2008)

Inquiring minds want to know if the cap badge issuing is done by trade/ regiment or does the air force just get theirs early?


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## avs2010 (12 Mar 2010)

Hello all,

I'm wondering if someone could post the POs and the subjest of each for the AVS course at CFSATE

Any help is much appreciated

Thank you


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## PMedMoe (12 Mar 2010)

Wow, look what I found when I Googled "CFSATE AVS Tech POs":

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/itp-pfi/page-eng.asp?id=942

But I'm at work so I don't know if the link is available outside of the DWAN.


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## PMedMoe (25 Mar 2010)

From the profile of avs2010:



> Last Active: March 12, 2010, 07:18:08



Why the hell do people come on here, ask a question and then never come back?   ???

The least they could do is say thanks.


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## jack0527 (7 Feb 2012)

I have a interview coming up soon for AVS tech through subsidized education in Toronto recruiting center, and was told to study a bit about the trade before the interview. I am unsure as to what exactly to look up, so I started studying basic circuitry, stuff like resistors, compactors, and inductors, also I took a brief overview at what is avionics, such as comm, nav, data management, sensors etc etc (nothing in-depth). I am wondering if I am going towards the right direction? and can someone shed some light on as to what could help me perform better in the interview; knowledge I should know, types questions that I should be prepared to answer, competitions I am up against, and based on a brief description below about myself how are my odds?

thank you all in advance, your helps and advices are greatly appreciated.

biography:
-high school dropout (I was a delinquent teen)
-obtained GED
-applied to military years later
-while in application process I have accomplished the following to boost my odds:
*paid off all debts, to improve my credit rating (roughly $10,000) (few outstanding rogers accounts, car accident, fines etc etc)
*obtained 5 grade 12 credits so far 3 of them are math in the 4U level all with scores above 95% and working on finishing my 6th grade 12 credit. (all these are achieved while working full time job)
*started my pardon process (criminal record)
*Centennial college made me offers in both AVS and AVN programs
*I was told that my CFAT scores are good enough to take any NCM jobs


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## aesop081 (7 Feb 2012)

jack0527 said:
			
		

> how are my odds?



We will be able to give you our best *GUESS* as soon as *ALL* other AVS applicants have posted their stories here.

Do you see what i am getting at ?

For your interview, you should be very familiar with the AVS page of the recruiting website and everything it talks about. Your interviewer is not going to ask you about circuitry and soldering technique.

If you still have a criminal record, you could end up having to wait until you have received a pardon.


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## jack0527 (7 Feb 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> We will be able to give you our best *GUESS* as soon as *ALL* other AVS applicants have posted their stories here.
> 
> Do you see what i am getting at ?
> 
> ...



Haha I know I cant seem to find other AVS applicants post here, so I thought I just ask and hoping that someone with experience in the field would come shed some light. I however did not know that I might have to wait until I have received a pardon, since I have already got this far in the application (back checks, medial, CFAT), I do not have a weapons ban, and it a charge when I was 18 which makes it 9 years ago, so this criminal record might still haunt me eh?


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## RedMan (17 Jun 2013)

I am seriously considering OT'ing to AVS from ACISS CST, assuming it is still in demand.

I have read all the forums and got as much info as I can on here. What I would like to know is... what are the things that people don't like about the trade as well as what they do like about it. Don't sugar-coat it... give it to me straight up please.

My background: I have a 2 year Electronics Technician Diploma. I worked as an electronics tech for 15 years civvie side before joining the military. I repaired all kinds of radios, electronic and mechanical instrument clusters, body controller modules, test equipment, and other automotive and consumer electronics (tv,etc) down to high-level circuit board repairs. I have done more soldering than you can imagine, mostly with surface-mount components and even ball-grid array ICs. I would say I have at least 50,000+ repairs under my belt as we worked our asses off all day everyday. I am also very good with computers. I can build any PC and troubleshoot all sorts of hardware or software problems. I'm also a major audio and video guru. I'm kind of a super-nerd...  

After losing my job I joined the military. I wanted ATIS but it wasn't available. I didn't want to go Navy tech so my choices were LCIS or AVS. I chose LCIS as it was a perfect fit for me because of my background and my love for computers and IS. I got a POET bypass and started at a higher pay level, and got my hook, day one.

Well, after doing very well at basic (top student, best shot), I eventually found out....hey you are no longer LCIS you are ACISS now...oh and you will wait forever to start DP1.0 instead of going right to your LCIS QL3's, and spec pay... haha sucks to be you! You are also going to be a signal operator...and all the IS stuff you were hoping to be able to do... say bye bye to it! Its going to IST mostly...

Long story short, I'm now a fully qualified LCIS tech...oh sorry ACISS CST now. I'm not completely happy with ACISS as it is not what I have signed up for. I'm not saying it's all bad, there are parts of it I like... but it's a bit of a mess. I have worked on radio and comms equipment for 15 years... and with the changes of ACISS, maybe its time for me to change to something else.

Reality is... I want to go Airforce (like I originally wanted), and I want to work as a TECH on electronics equipment in aircraft. My background makes me a perfect fit for it.

I'm still a Private with 3.5 years in (after multiple recommendations for promotion to Corporal...2 years with no pay raise, and no sign of spec-pay returning). I'm up for contract renewal in 1 year.

I have made an appointment with the BPSO. Hope it will actually happen. What do you guys think and recommend?


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## Occam (17 Jun 2013)

You'd really do well as an ATIS Tech.  You'd probably do well also as an AVS Tech, but you'll likely not see much/any of the IT side of the house in that trade.  That's not to say you won't have an opportunity, but the number of positions in IT-related fields doesn't compare between the two.

I know guys who have remustered from the Army into both trades, and have remustered from the Navy into both trades.  They've all been happy with their choices.

I'm partial to ATIS Tech, the scope of responsibilities seems (in my perhaps biased opinion) much wider and offers a much wider range of employment.


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## RedMan (17 Jun 2013)

It's been a while since we chatted Occam... 

I agree with you, and believe me, if I could get ATIS then I would take it! It doesn't seem to be open... however I will certainly ask the BPSO if that's a possibility since it would be MUCH easier to fit into that trade. Unfortunately, the longer former LCIS now ACISS CST goes without spec-pay, the more people you will see trying to get into ATIS. 

I've resolved to the fact that if I can't get an IS related tech position in Airforce, then AVS would be my choice. 

I've been lucky enough to be somewhere where I was able to be a tech and learn the newly upgraded comm suites in armored vehicles better than most people at other units. However I think now is the time for me to start asking about other options.

I'm sure there are former LCIS now AVS that can share their experience....


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## Occam (17 Jun 2013)

Ah, now I've clued in.  

Good luck.  I don't think you can go wrong with either.


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## Occam (17 Jun 2013)

Have you ruled out rubberheads?  They do a lot of IT, in their own secret-squirrelly world - and they get spec pay after QL5.


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## PuckChaser (18 Jun 2013)

Occam said:
			
		

> Have you ruled out rubberheads?  They do a lot of IT, in their own secret-squirrelly world - and they get spec pay after QL5.



Not the IT he has experience in. I doubt he'd ever touch the inside of a PC again if he was CommRsch.


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## Occam (18 Jun 2013)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Not the IT he has experience in. I doubt he'd ever touch the inside of a PC again if he was CommRsch.



You make it sound like that's a bad thing.   

Half the people working at TSAANS (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) in Ottawa are current or retired 291ers.


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## observor 69 (18 Jun 2013)

I'm a retired AVS tech. There is no strong negatives about this trade, in fact it is very similar to ATIS except I think ATIS is more hands on than AVS. Most of us work on the aircraft and a minority work in "Labs." When I taught POET I would often recommend AVS or ATIS, it depends on own preference. I like aircraft and the systems found on fighter aircraft so for me it was the right place to be.


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## RedMan (9 Jul 2013)

Thank you for the info guys... much appreciated.

Just curious why there seems to always be more people needed for this trade. Is it the job itself, or is the training too tough?

I have my appointment booked for a few weeks from now. Any recommendations for the interview? Never talked to a PSO before...


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## observor 69 (13 Jul 2013)

Can't see it being the job, perhaps the training/job description scares some off.


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## Proud_AF_Pilots_Girl (21 Oct 2013)

Hi everyone I have been searching the forums for info and am not finding answers to everything so if anyone could help me out that would be greatly appreciated. 

Avs Tech
-Whats the day to day job like
-What training is involved?
-If your married are you posted during training or is it some form of a prohibited posting?
-What are some of the postings?
-Highlights of the job?
-Where are the courses and what are their lengths?
-When does someone Private  3 move to Corporal 
-Is this shift work?
-Are there over seas postings?
-Is there Ship time?


Thanks again everyone


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## Quirky (21 Oct 2013)

There is a recruiting website that answers 90% of your questions.

-You can be posted from anywhere between BC to NS. 
-Courses depend on aircraft type after 3's.
-You become Cpl after QL5 qualified and 4 years.
-Yes there is shift work, yes there are ship postings.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Oct 2013)

SilentRanks said:
			
		

> Hi everyone I have been searching the forums for info and am not finding answers to everything so if anyone could help me out that would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Avs Tech
> -What training is involved?
> ...



Some info above for you in yellow text.  I'm not a AVS or AVN, etc type but some rough info until a 500 series comes along that knows the score.


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## observor 69 (21 Oct 2013)

[size=24pt][size=24pt]





			
				SilentRanks said:
			
		

> Hi everyone I have been searching the forums for info and am not finding answers to everything so if anyone could help me out that would be greatly appreciated.
> [size=10pt]
> I am a retired AVS tech, from the 104 and Voodoo world and some other stuff to old to be relative to your questions.
> Check out my profile and you will see a variety of postings and aircraft.
> ...





			
				SilentRanks said:
			
		

> [/size]
> 
> -What training is involved?
> -If your married are you posted during training or is it some form of a prohibited posting?
> ...




Edited many times in an attempt to enlarge font.


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## Proud_AF_Pilots_Girl (21 Oct 2013)

Thank you so much everyone my husband is doing a COR to AVS so this information really helps and "Baden Guy" we are going to check out your profile thanks so much


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## JohnBent (22 Oct 2013)

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/re-enrollment.page?

Folks if you are a skilled AVS tech and you have been out for less than 5 years (in some cases longer than 5 years) and you are looking to re-enrol go to the link I posted - it's for Skilled Air Force Managed Occupations.  NCM or Officer, we will assist you back into service.  We will do our best to find you a job through direct conversation with the Career Manager before you put your application in .  

The Air Force needs skilled AVS techs and skilled pilots; call me, leave a message, or fire me an email.  If you are a pilot I'll send you to my co-worker who just finished going through the re-enrolment process himself.

Can't hurt ..


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## observor 69 (22 Oct 2013)

Did I do good John ?  ;D


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## DAA (22 Oct 2013)

Quirky said:
			
		

> There is a recruiting website that answers 90% of your questions, [size=10pt][size=12pt]10% of the time and with no real concern for accuracy.



Thought I would help finish your lead in statment for you.


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## JohnBent (23 Oct 2013)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Did I do good John ?  ;D



  I worked on the Voodoo and 104 also .. those were many years ago but yes anytime someone helps advertise the good work AVS and the other 500 series do it is good   cheers


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## Proud_AF_Pilots_Girl (31 Oct 2013)

Does anyone know when the next POET starts and when the next course in Borden is?


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## nn1988 (6 Nov 2013)

SilentRanks said:
			
		

> Does anyone know when the next POET starts and when the next course in Borden is?



Checked with a MCpl in Kingston about POET course; it starts in January and in February.

QL3 was reformatted last year, I am not sure about that.


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## Proud_AF_Pilots_Girl (6 Nov 2013)

Thank you


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## Proud_AF_Pilots_Girl (6 Nov 2013)

ERR said:
			
		

> Checked with a MCpl in Kingston about POET course; it starts in January and in February.
> 
> QL3 was reformatted last year, I am not sure about that.



Are you an AVS Tech?


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## nn1988 (6 Nov 2013)

SilentRanks said:
			
		

> Are you an AVS Tech?



No


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## bhmve (23 Jan 2014)

Just wondering if anyone can give me an idea of how it takes for a semi skilled applicant, who is merrit listed, to be offered a job. 
I wouldn't mind hearing others experience who are semi skilled applicants. 

I have been merrit listed only 10 days. I know I'll get a call. What I want to know is if there are any AVS Techs on here who can give me some insight on how they applied. Once, you were offered a job, what extra training did you have to complete and how long was it. I am a licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer with no military training. Just want to hear what others experiences were like. I can not seem to get any concrete info from a recruiter. I am sure after BMQ, I would get an idea. Sitting here guessing is driving me crazy though. 

Thanks for the help.


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## DAA (23 Jan 2014)

bhmve said:
			
		

> Just wondering if anyone can give me an idea of how it takes for a semi skilled applicant, who is merrit listed, to be offered a job.
> I wouldn't mind hearing others experience who are semi skilled applicants.
> I have been merrit listed only 10 days. I know I'll get a call. What I want to know is if there are any AVS Techs on here who can give me some insight on how they applied. Once, you were offered a job, what extra training did you have to complete and how long was it. I am a licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer with no military training. Just want to hear what others experiences were like. I can not seem to get any concrete info from a recruiter. I am sure after BMQ, I would get an idea. Sitting here guessing is driving me crazy though.
> Thanks for the help.



Like I said before, if you are Merit Listed, selections for AVS Tech are done bi-weekly.

With regards to your current civilian qualifications and provided that a PLAR was done, then the results of the PLAR will have all the information you are looking for.


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## bhmve (23 Jan 2014)

On my application it says that the PLAR is not required. So I do not know what that means. But I am confirmed Merrit listed nevertheless. 

This is why I am trying to figure out the whole process from someone who has gone through this before. How much extra training was involved. How long did it take until you were promoted to Corporal? 

Thanks for your help DAA. I know it's just a waiting game from here. I just wished I knew a little more about what to expect other than BMQ.


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## DAA (23 Jan 2014)

bhmve said:
			
		

> On my application it says that the PLAR is not required. So I do not know what that means. But I am confirmed Merrit listed nevertheless.
> This is why I am trying to figure out the whole process from someone who has gone through this before. How much extra training was involved. How long did it take until you were promoted to Corporal?
> Thanks for your help DAA. I know it's just a waiting game from here. I just wished I knew a little more about what to expect other than BMQ.



I sent you a message, so check it and answer me back!  Something is not right here......


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## Vell (8 Oct 2014)

Wall of text warning! To skip past the back story leading to my decision to apply as an AVS Tech (Avionics Systems Tech), go to the next post.


I am a 33 year old male who is living in Japan with a wife and two children. I have lived in Japan for about 8 years now but I am Canadian born and raised. At the time of this writing, I have been in the application process for AVS and Pilot for just over a year. I have completed my CFAT (aptitude test), medical and interview and am now simply awaiting an offer. This is my very long story of how I came to be where I am now.

Ever since I was a young child, I have been fascinated with anything and everything mechanical or electronic. I was already repairing house appliances well before I was 5 years old and building my own computers by my early teens. Of the myriad mechanical devices in this world, one item always was the focus of my admiration, aircraft. 

In my early teens, I decided to join air cadets to satiate my desire for aircraft. I enjoyed my time in but I was not a responsible mature adult in my teen years so while I did very well during the studies portion of air cadets, basic and later aviation, I was not very motivated to do drill or PT (I did do it, but not with the enthusiasm I should have had). I was a little too laid back.

Out of high school, I began university and took some computer programming courses, but quickly discovered that while I like the mechanical and electronic aspects of computers, I had little interest in programming in a chair all day. I wanted to work with my hands more, and spend far less time at a desk. During my first year of university I took a test for employment as an over the phone internet and browser repair technician and dropped out of university as soon as I became employed.

I enjoyed my work at first but after the company was taken over and management changed, the nature of my work changed drastically. At that time, I was doing research, development and training of new troubleshooting methods but the new management decided to use us as data entry in our downtime. They also cut out all our benefits and treated us very poorly. Within a year of the management change, 3/4 of their technicians had quit and moved to a competitor to essentially do the same work they were doing before the management change but for more money and less stress. The company branch I worked for went out of business shortly after. I decided that I wanted to finally pursue post-secondary education despite an offer to work for the better company most of my colleagues had went off to.

Now 24 years old, a more mature adult, I looked back at my time in air cadets and realized it was one of my most enjoyable activities as a teen. I also now had a greater pride in being a Canadian and a desire to pursue a career that was almost guaranteed to be dynamic regardless of trade choice so I decided to go to the CAF recruiting center in Winnipeg and applied to be a Pilot through the ROTP program.

My time with the recruiter was not great. I asked to apply for ROTP Pilot but he was very adamant that I apply as a signals officer (it may not have been called that at the time) in the army given my extensive technical background. They also (for some reason) had access to my range scores from back when I was in air cadets and said that someone with my shooting skills should try for the army (I had won some range competitions during my cadet years). I did enjoy range, but I was not interested in joining the army. The recruiter said he would call me for future processing for pilot but still pushed for army.

Disappointed, I left the recruiting office and instead decided to pursue education at a civilian university. My high school marks were good enough to get into most university programs, but not good enough to get into some of the more competitive programs at larger universities like the University of British Columbia or the University of Toronto. I went back to school for a few months, upgraded my lowest high school marks to the upper 90's and applied to a few universities. Shortly after, I was accepted to all the universities I applied to and chose to go to the University of British Columbia to pursue an Asian Area Studies degree focusing on immigration and emigration in order to hopefully someday become a immigration officer (I still wanted to work FOR Canada, if not in the military, as a civilian). 

Some time after my acceptance into UBC, I got a call from the recruitment center in Winnipeg to go in for further processing for Pilot ROTP. This was almost a year after my initial trip to the recruitment center and I turned the offer down considering I was already packed and ready to move to BC. Sometimes I wonder how my life would have been different had I accepted that offer. I do not regret not accepting as my choices would eventually lead me to meeting my wife in Japan (something I would not give up for the world), but in retrospect, I do now realize just how spectacular of a program ROTP is for those interested in military life.

After 4 years in University, extensive experience working with immigration and visa issues part time, and learning a ridiculously difficult language (Japanese), I finally graduated with a BA in Asian Area Studies. I was also given a job offer directly from someone in immigration services because of my volunteer work helping students with immigration and visa issues. The job offer was something very rare for such a high demand job. I was told that they would prefer that I have three languages under my belt before I begin work and that they would like me to continue to work on my Japanese skills in Japan first for a year or two before beginning work. 

Given my situation, I got a job working at the board of education of a small town in Japan and continued to practice my Japanese in a professional setting. After my first year in Japan, I met my wife to be. I also had started a side business that was doing extremely well helping expatriates and exchange students with remittance issues.  Given that I was in a good relationship and was looking forward to a very lucrative business, I decided to stay in Japan and turned down my previous job offer. A few years I got married and went in to have my business registered as a corporation when some very bad news hit. A change in the law made it so that I could not continue to help customers until I first put aside millions of dollars into a securities account (needless to say, I did not have millions of dollars just sitting around). I had to immediately halt my business and was never allowed to continue. Out of work, just married, and just starting a family, I had to take work wherever I could get it. I became a public elementary and junior high school English teacher for a terrible dispatch company.

At first, the work was not so bad. The pay was not great, but it was enough and I did not mind teaching even though it was for my most hated subject, English. The company took about 30% of my pay (permanently) just for introducing me to a school (and I never saw them more than a few hours per year), but I could still get by. In my second year, my infant son had developed a life threatening problem that required immediate surgery. I had to miss two weeks of work while taking care of him in the hospital (not to mention I was not in a good state of mind with my child's life hanging in the balance). One of the schools I went to was very angry that I missed work because of this and demanded that I no longer go to their school as they did not want to risk the chance of me missing more work if my child had to go in for further surgery. Being a dispatch company, the company I work for cared little for me and followed the desires of their client. Since I had done nothing wrong, they did not fire me, but they moved me to a new school an hour and a half away, changed me to a 9 month contract per year (not paid between school years) and cut my pay by about 20%. The next year they increased the commission they were taking from all their employees to between about 50 and 60%. I was now working a job that requires a university degree for less money than the starting wage of a McDonald's employee in Tokyo. To add insult to injury, because of my high teaching performance, they wanted me to start doing some training sessions for other teachers... with no increase in benefits or pay but a significant increase in work load. Many other problems including contract fraud, countless labour law violations (the labour laws are not usually enforced in Japan), 12 hour days with no overtime pay, not allowed to use holidays, 3 hour travel time (unpaid) and the financial strain of all the pay decreases made me come to the conclusion that my career plan needed a change.

My wife suggested that I open my own English school, but I did not really want to commit to a career of doing something I do not really enjoy. I decided to look up what jobs are currently most in demand in Canada to see if any of them were of any interest to me. Avionics was on the list and was a field that piqued my interest of both aircraft and electronics. While looking up schools that teach avionics, I came across a forum post about Avionics Systems Technicians (AVS) in the CAF. Recalling that I had always wanted to be in the CAF, in September of 2013, I began my application for AVS.


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## Vell (8 Oct 2014)

As an out of country applicant, my road to a career in the Canadian Forces has been a long one so far despite not having any problems with my application and my desired trade being in very high demand.

In September of 2013, after discussing it at length with my wife, I decided to apply for AVS  (Avionics Systems) Tech. 

I was out of shape and fat which was the first thing that had to be dealt with. Fortunately, after my first son was born in 2011, I had realized that I did not want poor health to deny my son access to a capable, live and energetic father so I had already began to exercise and watch my diet since then. I started at 96kg (212 lbs). I could run about 300 meters before getting tired and could do about 4 push ups and 20 sit ups consecutively. Today I am 74kg (163 lbs). I can run about 7km before becoming tired at a pace of about 1 km per 4.75 minutes. I can easily do 50 sit ups or more but my push ups are still fairly lousy at only 25 - 30 max consecutively (this just does not seem to be improving anymore). My health is now a FAR cry from what it used to be!

Confident in my exercise regime, on October 3rd 2013, I put in my application for AVS online. Things from here to about February 2014 were quite rough. On November 15, 2013 I got my first email from the Toronto recruiting center asking me to submit additional forms. I excitedly got the requested documents together only to check my email a few hours later and find a message asking me to disregard the previous email. This would be the last time I would hear from the CAF until January 2014. I sent in an email to the recruiting office in November and December and left a few messages asking to be emailed or called back with the status of my file. No emails or calls were returned. At the end of December, desperate to hear something, ANYTHING, about my file, I began aggressively calling around to find out what was going on. Eventually I ended up talking with an officer at the recruiting center in Halifax who sounded angry about how no one could tell me anything about my file. I don't know what he did or how he did it, but my file had apparently been lost somewhere and he tracked it down. He also got the Toronto recruiting center to, for the first time since I had applied in early October, contact me directly. In January of 2014 I finally got the email asking me to fill in the initial security and personal data verification documents. I also had to fill in the very lengthy 330-60 Security Clearance form and submit a copy of my police record from Japan as I had lived out of Canada for too long. 

Shortly after sending in the requested files (February 2014), I received an email from the Toronto recruiting center asking me when I would be available to come in for the CFAT (aptitude test), Medical and Interview. I told them anytime before the beginning of May (when the school year started back up) and I was told that I would be contacted within a few weeks with the dates for my processing in Toronto.

February and March came and went. By April I was wondering where this email with my processing dates was so I decided to send an email to the person in charge of my file. Two weeks later and there was no reply to the email so I called and left a message. Still no reply. Frustrated, I started to call aggressively again (not leaving any more messages though, that would just be obnoxious) and I finally got through to the recruiter in charge of my file by going through a different number and getting that person to get the recruiter on the phone for me. I was told that the Toronto office was very busy with some extra project and that my file could not be attended to in any way for at least another month.

During this long wait however, I had read a lot more about the other trades in the CAF. I decided to put my degree to good use and try to attempt Pilot and MARS as well. I managed to have both added to my file.

April, May, and June came and went. I would send an email every month asking about the status of my file but most went unanswered. Finally in July after another round of aggressive calling, I got scheduled for my CFAT, Medical, and Interview on August 18th 2014.

On August 14th, 2014, I flew in from Japan to Toronto for my processing. I did well on my CFAT and passed for every trade I applied for. Unfortunately, while I did pass for Pilot, it was not with a score competitive enough to proceed with Air Crew Selection this year and there were no positions available for MARS. I decided to go with my original choice of AVS. The only other officer trades I qualified for just did not seem to be worth the stress and decreased enjoyment just for better pay. If I REALLY want to become an officer, I can look into it again in the far future if I really want, but I am happy with AVS for now.

So that brings me to today, October 8th, 2014, more than a year since I applied. I am now simply awaiting for my security clearance to go through and hopefully get an offer before April of 2015. It has been a long ride but hopefully it will pay off with an enjoyable and fulfilling career with the Canadian Armed Forces.


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## RedMan (12 Nov 2014)

I was wondering if anyone here could chime in on what the CURRENT QL3 course length for AVS is now? I kept reading that the course is going through changes, so up to date info would be very helpful.

I FINALLY have my AVOT interview/testing over the next couple of weeks, so ANY current information would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.


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## pratch (13 Nov 2014)

It is about 9-10 months long depending on block leaves (plus POET).

There's always talks of making it 14 months long and bringing POET to Borden except, as far as I know, the project is on hold due to many constraints.


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## drewm4x4 (30 Nov 2014)

I wouldn't even worry about the length of the QL3 until you are done POET. I am currently on the AVS QL3 and every day you hear something different on what they plan to do to the course.  I started my course on May 6/14 and I finish Feb 13/15.  I did POET from Aug 6/13 to Mar 11/14.  I was one of the lucky ones that have had hardly any time sitting on PAT. POET, Common Core and QL3 have all been back to back, which isn't the norm. Most people end up sitting on PAT between courses.  In total I will have just under 2 years at Borden when it is all said and done, so I would suggest planning on spending 2-3 years from the start to the time you get your first posting to a unit.  Good luck and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.


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## observor 69 (30 Nov 2014)

Let's put it this way, you will get to see a lot of supply tech courses go through.


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## RedMan (22 Dec 2014)

Well since I would be OT'ing (if it happens, gotta wait until spring to find out), and I already have POET (QL5 LCIS / ACISS-CST), that would be a lot of training I skip right there. It would just be common core and ql3.

While I would "assume" & "hope" the CF wouldn't waste their money having me sit in Borden on PAT away from my wife and kids and my house AGAIN (I already did this routine back during the newly formed ACISS mess in Kingston), I know its a possibility. At least now, I know what to do to hopefully not have that happen again, and to have me stay here on base until my courses start.


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## TCM621 (22 Dec 2014)

Daywalker said:
			
		

> Well since I would be OT'ing (if it happens, gotta wait until spring to find out), and I already have POET (QL5 LCIS / ACISS-CST), that would be a lot of training I skip right there. It would just be common core and ql3.
> 
> While I would "assume" & "hope" the CF wouldn't waste their money having me sit in Borden on PAT away from my wife and kids and my house AGAIN (I already did this routine back during the newly formed ACISS mess in Kingston), I know its a possibility. At least now, I know what to do to hopefully not have that happen again, and to have me stay here on base until my courses start.


You would think so, but CFSATE doesn't think that way. Still it will be faster than if you had to do POET.


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## Vell (22 Jan 2015)

Update: So, over a year later, I was finally able to find out what happened to my file and why it was lost. Apparently, my file was rejected by the automated portion of the application system because it could not identify my Japanese postal code. This should have been fixed manually but instead my file was sent to Halifax where it remained in limbo. 

When I made all the calls to track down my file back in December of 2013, it is likely thanks to a very nice officer in Halifax that my file ever saw the light of day again. 

Also, only more bad news for my security clearance. The process for my pre-security has been underway now for over a month (I don't know exactly how long though) but I received an email that I may have to fly into Canada again for more interviews before my pre security can move forward again. I have very little debt outside of student loans but multiple trips to Canada and then back to Japan are really hurting my finances. I really hope things pan out in the end.


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## Vell (13 Jul 2015)

So the bad news continues. My security clearance is taking FOREVER. I knew this would be a distinct possibility, but the reason for the long processing time is unreasonable in my opinion. 

After waiting about half a year, my security clearance had been returned as 'failed' due to discrepancies with my time in university. I was required to fill out my forms again and start the process over again. I though the problem was that I was not specific enough about the unit numbers I was in while living on campus. I made the appropriate changes, updated some information about family members who had changed addresses and jobs in the over one year since I first sent in the security forms, and resubmitted them.

Last week, I got another email saying my clearance is still having problems because of 'discrepancies' with my time during university. I was really confused since I was sure everything was accurate and I was extra diligent when filling out the forms for the second time.

As it turns out, I did not actually fill out the form wrong. I made no mistake (that I am aware of). The 'discrepancy' (as it was finally explained to me) was that I claimed that I was a student of a Canadian university while I was on a 1 year student exchange in Japan. In other words, my school address was in Canada while my living address was in Japan for my second year of university. CSIS should know that I was on exchange because of the documents I submitted (including my transcripts which show the dates and location of my exchange), but their 'system' will not accept the discrepancy. I sent in a signed letter from my Canadian university in response clearly showing that I was still considered a student at my Canadian university while studying in Japan through the exchange program (something I would have figured is common sense). The person in charge of my file has been very helpful, cleared up some issues with CSIS for me, and I can tell he is a little frustrated with the results as well, but I will need to go in for an interview with CSIS regardless which means yet another trip to Canada.

The trip to Canada no longer matters however. Since my security clearance has taken over a year, I need to do my medical, interview and police check again regardless which means... another trip to Toronto anyway. This process is starting to frustrate me, but I am not about to back out now. I have to think of it as motivation to forge through training no matter what the conditions. Too much will be wasted if I do not do my best.


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## fullmetalpacket (27 Jul 2015)

Hello all, when I will be sent to Kingston for the first 6 months of training (AVS Tech) will my family be authorized to live with me in a PMQ?

And also when sent to Borden for the rest of the training?

I have a 2 months old daughter and I want to be there for her and for my wife. BMQ + Kingston + Borden = around 2 years.

Please tell me my family can follow me (at my expense) wherever I will be studying...

Thanks


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## Leeworthy (28 Jul 2015)

The length of your course makes all the difference. POET is 6 months in Kingston. I think you still have inspections and such while on that course don't you? You may not get authorization to live off the base or outside of shacks due to that. As for Borden on your QL3, it may be the same problem. You could have your wife move locally to Kingston and live in an apartment, but I don't know for sure if you can live there with her, and may be hard to find somewhere willing to rent for a 6 month term only. 

Your best bet would be to talk to the staff at Kingston once you start your course. They have the final say on you being able to live off base while you are on course, or in a PMQ while on course. I don't think you are going to be able to get a PMQ for a 6 month timeframe, but again, best to ask your course staff as they have final say.


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## opcougar (30 Jul 2015)

@fullmetal.....

You will always belong to Borden if your interest is AVS. POET is 7 months, and the failure rate is high on the course. Hopefully you are Science inclined, as you like maths and electronics? If not, start working on it pronto.

Once you pass, it's back to Borden for AVS common core if you haven't already done that, then onto your AVS QL3 which is 9 months + and again high failure rate.

PMQ question: It's not advisable for you to move your family whilst on DP 1 trg, only to move them again for QL3, and then later for your 1st posting. Put it this way, it won't happen on the Crown's dime, and you will need a memo to live outside anyway. You won't be the first person to have a family whilst on course, and it should act as your motivator to want to pass and move on.

Your first failure of a PC leads to PRB, and depending on the board, you can find yourself being recoursed. Speak to your spouse before making any irrational decisions.

Good luck


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## CCR (31 Jul 2015)

opcougar said:
			
		

> @fullmetal.....
> 
> You will always belong to Borden if your interest is AVS. POET is 7 months, and the failure rate is high on the course. Hopefully you are Science inclined, as you like maths and electronics? If not, start working on it pronto.
> 
> ...



Things do change quite often, but when I went through POET and my 3's I was allowed to live out (PMQ). My F&E was moved to the PMQ through the BOR as opposed to Brookfield. No that did not affect my Brookfield move when I was posted at the end of my QL3. They were very accommodating and the PAT staff helped me draft the memo. I had a quick turn around and at that time CFHA had many PMQ's that were empty. That was back in 2013 mind you.

As for when you are on POET, I went back to Borden every weekend. People do carpool back and forth. At the time I was receiving incidentals (that also seems to change every few courses) as I was TD'd to CFSCE. That essentially covered my 7 months of travel costs. 

Again, things change so often that by the time you get there, CFSATE's policies could have changed 3 times over.


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## Sarah_H (2 Aug 2015)

If you are married or common law, you only need to write a memo about living off base. I know of 3 people currently on poet who are not living in the shacks but with their spouses and children. 

The inspections are done when you're not around, but sometimes they will decide they want to do a bedside inspection. So for that they'll just tell you to occupy an empty bed space. And make sure your parade boots are imacculate. They are very picky about the boots.


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## opcougar (4 Aug 2015)

@OP......Living outside the shack will always be at the discretion of the staff. Again, you have to really ask yourself if it is really worth it to log your family around temprarily, or you are better off focusing on training (no distraction), and then perhaps wait till you are done your QL3. I can tell you now that Borden won't let you live outside.

Your concerns should be focused on how well your understand Maths, AD, DC, Amp, Practicals, etc


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## Vell (2 Oct 2015)

Happy two year application process anniversary to me. 

Two years in the recruitment system for a highly in demand trade all because of not one, but three separate computer glitches with my application (Japanese postal code caused the recruiting system to send my application to a black hole in Halifax for 4 months and also TWO failed security clearance checks because the automatic system would not accept my home address in Japan while my University address was in Canada while on exchange). 

I applied when I was 32, I am now 34. If I am not in before I am 35, there is no chance of me ever staying in the military for a full 25 years for the awesome pension. What a downer.


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## Vell (8 Jan 2016)

After more than *TWO YEARS* (about 28 months), I finally have been *merit listed*! My long wait may soon be coming to an end.


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## Vell (14 Jan 2016)

THE WAIT FINALLY ENDS! My perseverance has paid off. 2 years, 3 months and 11 days (833 days) after my application to the Canadian forces began, I have finally been given an offer! On February 15th, 2016 I will be off to Quebec to begin my training as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces and then as an ATIS technician. It was a long haul but everything only really begins now.

Amazingly, after my security check finally cleared, I was merit listed within weeks and sent an offer only 6 days after I was informed that I was on the merit list. That security check and file loss really slowed things down for me but perhaps I should look at this time as blessing as it gave me the opportunity to greatly increase my fitness level, research many aspects of the CAF, and most importantly, to get a chance to see my 4 year old son and 2 year old daughter develop into the wonderful kids they are today.


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## onlytyy (14 Aug 2016)

I'm in my 2nd week of BMQ right now and a couple people from word of mouth has told me that AVS Tech schooling is very hard and for one of the im assuming final tests only 15% of people pass. 

I'm going into AVS Tech and I was just wondering if you could give me any details as to if this were true and with a high school diploma I would be able to work hard and pass the courses?


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## mariomike (14 Aug 2016)

For reference, perhaps,

AVS Tech Hard?

will be merged with,

See also,

Questions about AVN/AVS Tech  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/69678.0
3 pages.

AVS and AVN 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/92652.0

Torn between these two trades (AVN/AVS) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/120219.0

AVS and AVN spec pay, how does this work? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/80926.0

Applicants for ATIS Tech, AVS Tech, & AVN Tech  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23384.0/nowap.html

AWS Full , questions betweeen AVS / AVN / ACS / AC Op  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/118564.0

Future of AVS & AVN Tech's  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/71633.0/nowap.html

avn vs avs  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/53094.0
2 pages

That is just a taste. Plenty more where they came from. 

etc...

AVS
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+avs&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=EMuwV-KcCeKM8QfhjoGYAg&gws_rd=ssl


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## observor 69 (14 Aug 2016)

I am a retired AVS tech and also taught POET in Kingston. If AVS had a pass rate of 15% the training would be revised. 
In my experience most RCAF courses have pass rates above 75%.
If you have a high school diploma and apply yourself you will be a successful AVS graduate.
It is a long period of training but it is a great trade with great people.
Hang in there, better times ahead.


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## LucasPearce (27 Sep 2016)

As stated, I am interested in this training program. What I worry about is the living situation, as I have a girlfriend. Am I able to live off base and get an apartment? Also what about the traveling? Is there a lot of traveling with this job or will I be stationed somewhere close to where my girlfriend is?

Thank you for your time


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## mariomike (27 Sep 2016)

AVS Tech training and family  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/120007.0

See also,

Aviation Systems Technician
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+avs+tech&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=jOnqV_bCOKmC8QfN6oAI&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+aviation+systems

AVS Tech
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+avs+tech&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=jOnqV_bCOKmC8QfN6oAI&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+AVS


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## BeaverMan (27 Sep 2016)

LucasPearce said:
			
		

> As stated, I am interested in this training program. What I worry about is the living situation, as I have a girlfriend. Am I able to live off base and get an apartment? Also what about the traveling? Is there a lot of traveling with this job or will I be stationed somewhere close to where my girlfriend is?
> 
> Thank you for your time



First year and half of your time in you would be on courses from BMQ, POET, Common Core, and QL3 and that's if you don't get stuck on PAT for some time waiting to be loaded onto a course or flunk out. During this time you are not likely to visit your family and friends other then on bloc leave. After that you would be shipped off from anywhere from Shearwater NS to Comox BC. Once there you will need to complete more training to formularize you with how to properly fill out paperwork to the layout of your new base. Then on to either completing your OJT or getting servicing qualified. And then on to your type course. After that you can expect to go on deployment at least once a year be it 2 weeks or 6 months depending on what unit you end up at. Basically if you are afraid of being away from your girlfriend for any amount of time the military itself is not for you as you are required to be ready for deployment at a moments notice. And even before all that you need to pass all the required steps to even be excepted to join. Sorry if any of this scares you but the military is a different type of lifestyle then being a civilian. You have to make sacrifices but in the end it can be quite a rewarding experience.


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## Loachman (27 Sep 2016)

As you can see from the links that mariomike so graciously provided, LucasPearce, there is a wealth of information here on this Site. Please read through older threads, especially those stickied at the top of each forum, and try the Search Function and mariomike's Site Google technique. By doing so, you'll likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.


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## DMelnikel (16 Dec 2016)

I am an AVS tech nearing the end of my QL3 qualification course. It is time for us to put in our posting preferences, but I have only recently learned that type courses are not necessarily done at the unit. My wife is currently going through a very difficult time with her anxiety and depression (also some stuff going on in her family), and so I would like to avoid any needless time away from her. This brings me to my questions:

1. Is there any consolidated list of type course locations and durations?  I've tried searching manually (site search was not working), but haven't found much information.
2. Are type courses done all in one shot, or is it spread out over multiple sections done at different times?

I'm looking for as much information as possible, as I may change my preferences and even ideal airframe in the name of being able to stay with my wife during this difficult time for her. That being said, my ideal postings are to BC, so I'd really like some information on the Aurora and Sea King/Cyclone courses.

Thank you for your time reading.


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## CCR (16 Dec 2016)

Seaking type courses are no longer being run. Cyclone are being run more frequently now. They are 4 months I believe, but prior to that you must complete the servicing course which is a month long. Those are all held in Shearwater. As far as Pat Bay, right now they do not have any cyclones.


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## Sarah_H (17 Dec 2016)

To my knowledge, the Aurora course is done in Greenwood, NS. I'm not too sure how long the course is. But I imagine it's probably a few months.


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## DMelnikel (17 Dec 2016)

Thank you for the responses. Does anyone around know about the aurora type course duration? Also curious about gryphon type courses if I were to decide to ask for cold lake.


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## CCR (17 Dec 2016)

If I'm not mistaken, the Aurora course is split into the 2 4 month long segments in Greenwood. The Griffin is I think 3.5 months long and done in St. Hubert.


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## DMelnikel (19 Dec 2016)

Thank you very much for the information on the aurora. It's a long shot, but do you have any idea how long the spacing between the segments is? Long enough that I'd be sent home during, for example (home being comox if i were posted there).


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## Loachman (19 Dec 2016)

DMelnikel said:
			
		

> gryphon





			
				CCR said:
			
		

> Griffin



_*Griffon.*_


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## CCR (19 Dec 2016)

Loachman said:
			
		

> _*Griffon.*_



D'oh!


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## Loachman (19 Dec 2016)

It's important.

400 Squadron's ATC callsign is "Griffin", so the difference in pronunciation can cause confusion.
























No, just kidding about the confusion bit.


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## DMelnikel (21 Dec 2016)

As before, I appreciate everyone's input and answers thus far. My final question is with regards to the Aurora.

As CCR said the aurora course is two 4 month sections in greenwood, are these immediately sequential or is there some decent pause in between which would allow me to return home? 

Thanks again everyone for your time.


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## Untamed Spyder (18 Jan 2017)

Hey!

I was wondering if there are any currently employed Avionics System Technicians (AVS SYS TECH). I have a few questions and would be great if some of you guys could help me out!

Thank you!


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## mariomike (18 Jan 2017)

Untamed Spyder said:
			
		

> I have a few questions and would be great if some of you guys could help me out!



See also,

AVS Tech training 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/120007.0

Aviation Systems Technician
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+avs+tech&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=jOnqV_bCOKmC8QfN6oAI&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+aviation+systems

AVS Tech
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+avs+tech&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=jOnqV_bCOKmC8QfN6oAI&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+AVS


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## Untamed Spyder (18 Jan 2017)

mariomike said:
			
		

> See also,
> 
> AVS Tech training
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/120007.0
> ...



I'v checked quite if few of those already. Thanks though!!!


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## CCR (19 Jan 2017)

I'm a current AVS tech, what in particular would you like to know?


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## Untamed Spyder (19 Jan 2017)

CCR said:
			
		

> I'm a current AVS tech, what in particular would you like to know?



I sent you a message. thank you sir!


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## kevytj (15 Nov 2017)

Vell said:
			
		

> THE WAIT FINALLY ENDS! My perseverance has paid off. 2 years, 3 months and 11 days (833 days) after my application to the Canadian forces began, I have finally been given an offer! On February 15th, 2016 I will be off to Quebec to begin my training as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces and then as an ATIS technician. It was a long haul but everything only really begins now.
> 
> Amazingly, after my security check finally cleared, I was merit listed within weeks and sent an offer only 6 days after I was informed that I was on the merit list. That security check and file loss really slowed things down for me but perhaps I should look at this time as blessing as it gave me the opportunity to greatly increase my fitness level, research many aspects of the CAF, and most importantly, to get a chance to see my 4 year old son and 2 year old daughter develop into the wonderful kids they are today.


What can you tell me about ATIS? I am interested in positions with the AF. What do you recommend? I'm looking at Avionics Tech. Any input is welcome. Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## clmarr (15 Nov 2017)

Interesting story. I am in a similar situation, I am 31, almost one year into the application process now and I feel like my current career does not satisfy me/future is not so bright. Hopefully I will be in before November 2018. The lengthy process is due to me studying and living abroad for a few years as well, but I am applying from within Canada. AVS is my first choice. I am curious to know what made you change your mind from going to AVS to ATIS? How is BMQ for an older folk like you and me?


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## kevytj (15 Nov 2017)

clmarr said:
			
		

> Interesting story. I am in a similar situation, I am 31, almost one year into the application process now and I feel like my current career does not satisfy me/future is not so bright. Hopefully I will be in before November 2018. The lengthy process is due to me studying and living abroad for a few years as well, but I am applying from within Canada. AVS is my first choice. I am curious to know what made you change your mind from going to AVS to ATIS? How is BMQ for an older folk like you and me?


I'm reserve, vehicle tech, 34 years old. Took my oath begin of this year. Doing BMQ on weekends. Loving it. Transferring to RegF, first choice is Avionics tech. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Sarah_H (11 Jan 2018)

Hello, I'm also a current AVS tech.


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## Untamed Spyder (11 Jan 2018)

thejadepixie said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm also a current AVS tech.




Haha just a bit late. I'm avs too now (not really cuz I'm at POET) but close enough. Thanks doe!


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## JKirke (13 Feb 2019)

Hi All,

Without digging to much into anyone's personal info, I was wondering if someone in the trade\retired can inform me as to whether the promotions are at a regular pace or slower due to it being a trade?

Thanks in advance.


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## Quirky (13 Feb 2019)

JKirke said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> Without digging to much into anyone's personal info, I was wondering if someone in the trade\retired can inform me as to whether the promotions are at a regular pace or slower due to it being a trade?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Being a trade? On average expect to see MCpl appointment/promotion around the 8-10 year mark, after that it depends on a lot of factors. From what I’ve seen in 2018, AVS has tones of new people in squadrons so promotions will be more competitive in the coming years.


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## JKirke (13 Feb 2019)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Being a trade? On average expect to see MCpl appointment/promotion around the 8-10 year mark, after that it depends on a lot of factors. From what I’ve seen in 2018, AVS has tones of new people in squadrons so promotions will be more competitive in the coming years.



Apologies meant to say tech trade.


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