# Wearing American Jump Wings



## tumbling_dice (27 Aug 2011)

Today I received USAF jump wings, but I'm confused as to wear on my Canadian uniform I am supposed to wear them.

The problem is that in the Dress Regulations there are two paragraphs that appear to describe identical situations with different procedures. (I won't post it here for the sake of space but its page 3-3-4 paras 15 and 16).  

This thread seems to agree with para 16, but I'm still not sure:
http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/97076/post-981252.html#msg981252

I'm sure there are more than a few of you out there who have US wings, can you help me out?


----------



## MikeL (27 Aug 2011)

From how I read the rules, essentially you can only wear US Jump Wings when you are in the US, not for wear on parades here in Canada.  As for where on the DEU they are worn, above the name tag.
  
Picture of the Former PPCLI Col of the Regiment wearing US Jump Wings
http://www.army.gc.ca/IAOL/143000440000628/143000440000630/HTMLFiles/ppcli_2010_parade022.jpg


I'm curious how a NCdt was able to be awarded USAF Parachutist Insignia though,  my understanding is the badge is awarded to USAF pers who attend the US Army Airborne School and complete BAC or attend/pass a Military freefall course.  Did you do a jump with Americans and you received Basic Parachutist Badge or? Also, do you currently have Canadian Jump Wings?


----------



## Blackadder1916 (27 Aug 2011)

The applicable paragraphs from dress instructions are:



> FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL
> BADGES
> 
> 14. Personnel who have been presented
> ...



Paragraph 15 and 16 do not describe identical situations.  Para 15 deals with the wear of foreign badges when there is _*no equivalent Canadian badge*_ for a _*Canadian prescribed qualification*_.  For all intents, at present the only badges this deals with are the Ranger and Special Forces tabs.

Para 16 deals with wear of a foreign badge when the individual is qualified to wear the equivalent Canadian badge or has been presented with a foreign badge for which there is no equivalent Canadian qualification.

Are you already authorized to wear the CF parachute badge?  If yes, then you are permitted to wear the American badge "_while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned"_.  If you are not already authorized to wear the CF badge, then CFAO 55-10 applies http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/055-10-eng.asp


> SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES -- GENERAL
> 
> 17. A CF specialist skill badge may be awarded to a CF member of the Regular or Reserve Force after successful completion of formal CF training or a CF qualifying course for parachutists, submariners, clearance divers, ship divers, combat divers, or explosive ordonance disposal (EOD) members.
> 
> ...



As for positioning of foreign badges on the DEU, I also thought they were worn above the right breast pocket.  Maybe it was changed since I've retired, but according to the quoted instruction it is centred "on the pocket".


----------



## tumbling_dice (27 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the help.  I received the wings while on exchange at the US Air Force Academy.  These are the jump wings that almost all the USAFA grads wear.  They are the same wings as you get at Fort Benning, but it is _not_ the same course.  The course I took is five freefall jumps with no airborne training (IE. you don't jump static line with a ruck on).  Therefore they are not the equivalent of the Canadian Jump Wings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachutist_Badge_%28United_States%29#Air_Force_Basic_Parachutist_Insignia

Thanks again!


----------



## Journeyman (28 Aug 2011)

tumbling_dice said:
			
		

> Therefore they are not the equivalent of the Canadian Jump Wings.


The link you posted specified that the "jump wings awarded upon completion of the course are non-operational wings and are not recognized by other DoD jump units." 

Obviously they're not the equivalent of American jump wings either. 

Maybe you should just wear them in the Hub when trying to impress Queen's students.


----------



## Franko (28 Aug 2011)

I know a few troops in the Reg Force that went through cadets and got their jump wings in Trenton.

They don't wear them now, even though they are authorized.           

Regards


----------



## chriscalow (28 Aug 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> I know a few troops in the Reg Force that went through cadets and got their jump wings in Trenton.
> 
> They don't wear them now, even though they are authorized.
> 
> Regards



That's pretty irrelevant, there are several jumpers that got their wings as a cadet and who wear them with just as much pride as anyone else. Myself included. Some NCO's where I work (one of the Para Coy's) Included as well.

Re: this thread, even in jump coy, we can't get away with wearing foreign wings. And no, it doesn't sound like the OP should be wearing any, just keep the memories you have of your time in the air, and hopefully sometime you can try it for real sometime, nothing like jumping kit in the middle of the night, can't compare, you'd probably love it.   Best of luck.


----------



## Journeyman (28 Aug 2011)

Gumby said:
			
		

> nothing like jumping kit in the middle of the night


...in winter  ;D


----------



## lethalLemon (28 Aug 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> I know a few troops in the Reg Force that went through cadets and got their jump wings in Trenton.
> 
> They don't wear them now, even though they are authorized.
> 
> Regards



It's the same course, the only difference is - one does it as a Cadet and one does it as a Reservist/RegF member.

Those that got their wings as a Cadet but don't wear them, probably don't do so because they don't do their refreshers.


----------



## Journeyman (28 Aug 2011)

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> Those that got their wings as a Cadet but don't wear them, probably don't do so because they don't do their refreshers.


In the RegF, where the soldiers mentioned are serving, para refreshers are not required to continue wearing earned jump wings.


----------



## tumbling_dice (28 Aug 2011)

Just to be clear, these wings are worn by active-duty USAF members.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Air_Force_Lt._Gen._Michael_C._Gould.jpg/275px-Air_Force_Lt._Gen._Michael_C._Gould.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norton_A_Schwartz_2008_2.jpg

By Cadet they mean US Air Force Academy Cadet (much like OCdt or NCdt) not like Army Cadets.


----------



## Journeyman (28 Aug 2011)

Just to be equally clear.....there appears to be no misunderstanding on the wings -- a slight, irrelevant tangent on Army Cadets -- but it seems obvious to most of the readership here:

1. You got some USAFA jump wings; 
2. Those wings are not recognized by anyone in the US military outside of the USAF (and even they require their Pararesecue and Combat Controllers to do a legitimate jump course, even if they have USAFA wings);
3. The CFAOs are quite clear (on-duty in that country, working with that country's military, or attending one of their formal functions), which answers your initial question.

Therefore, what you now do with these wings is between you, and the full military wisdom of whatever 3rd- or 4th-year RMC cadet is tasked with caring about your dress and deportment.  Giddy-up.


----------



## tumbling_dice (28 Aug 2011)

Thank you, I obviously got a bit lost in the thread. That was pretty much the answer I expected, just wanted to make sure.


----------



## GGHG_Cadet (28 Aug 2011)

And the RMC regulation that applies is CADWINS, Chap 11, Sec 5, Para 39:


> c.	Foreign decorations and badges may be worn on RMC orders of dress as stipulated in A-AD-265, Chap 3, Sec 3, Para 14 & 15 and subject to the approval of the DCdts.


----------



## Franko (28 Aug 2011)

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> Those that got their wings as a Cadet but don't wear them, probably don't do so because they don't do their refreshers.



Actually, it's the embarrassment of doing it while in cadets. 

Their words, not mine.

Regards


----------



## marshall sl (28 Aug 2011)

Hmmm ,sounds silly to me.A close friend of mine earned his as a cadet and went on to a carrer in the Reg Force serving with the PPCLI and Airborne Regt.


----------



## Pusser (28 Aug 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Actually, it's the embarrassment of doing it while in cadets.
> 
> Their words, not mine.
> 
> Regards



As I understand it, the standard is the same (hence the same badge), so they should be freaking proud they did it as a cadet.


----------



## Franko (29 Aug 2011)

Apparently there was no night jumps or water jumps at the time for cadets, therefore not the same course. 

Like I said, their words, not mine. 

Regards


----------



## The Bread Guy (29 Aug 2011)

Maybe time to lock up the thread now that the question's been answered?


----------

