# Canadian Officials Visit US Deserter



## wdewitt (16 Mar 2009)

Canadian Officials Visit US Deserter
March 16, 2009
Associated Press

SAN DIEGO - Two Canadian Parliament members on Sunday visited a U.S. Army deserter being held in a brig in San Diego after unsuccessfully trying to seek refuge in Canada.

Robin Long, 25, of Boise, Idaho, fled to Canada in 2005 to avoid serving in Iraq, but was deported last summer after losing a court battle to stay in that country. Long became the first American resister to the Iraq war to be removed by Canadian authorities.

Parliamentarians Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj traveled to the Naval Consolidated Brig Miramar in San Diego where Long is serving a 15-month sentence after pleading guilty last August to a reduced charge of desertion.

During the 45-minute meeting, the government officials were not allowed to take notes or record the interview. Chow said Long appeared in good spirits and did not complain, but told them that he missed his young son in Canada.

"My heart sank, it was very heavy," Chow said after the meeting. "I was angry that Canada deported him."

Some 200 American deserters are thought to have fled to Canada to avoid service in Iraq. None so far have been granted refugee status. During the Vietnam War, an estimated 90,000 Americans won refuge in Canada, mostly to avoid the draft.

The lower house of Canada's Parliament passed a nonbinding motion in June urging that U.S. military deserters be allowed to stay in Canada, but the Conservative Party government has ignored the vote.

During his sentencing last year, Long, who had been stationed at Fort Collins, Colo., told a military judge that he left over moral objections.

Wrzesnewskyj said he was troubled to learn from Long that he was handed over in handcuffs and had to surrender his military documents to Canadian authorities.

"He took a principled stand against the war in Iraq and he has borne severe consequences," Wrzesnewsky said.

I hope they did not use government funds to see our poor boy since we are in a deep recession. Instead it  could be used to help other Canadians that really need the help. : :-[ :crybaby:


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## Journeyman (16 Mar 2009)

> "He took a principled stand against the war in Iraq and he has borne severe consequences," Wrzesnewsky said.



I suppose that's a bizarre chain of thought for our left politicians: 
a) some people actually take principled stands, as opposed to merely rhetorical bleating, (not that I agree with deserters' "stands,") and
b) there _are_ consequences to our actions


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## ExSarge (17 Mar 2009)

Principled stand my butt! He deserted! The only principal here at play is the principal of “self”. Had he as a serving member of the armed forces gone to his chain of command and said “I object to the war, I will not serve” That would be a principled stand! To desert is the action of a coward! He, like all members of the military in western democracies signed a contract with his government. He agreed to serve in war or peace, to go and do as legally ordered, and yes to die if required or simply ordered to do so. In exchange his government agreed to pay, house, feed, and provide medical treatment and other compensations as set forth in the enlistment contract. As long as the contract suited him all was well, when he was placed in possible jeopardy he developed principals? Please! Ms. Chow and Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, by there actions in supporting this amoral coward dishonour every Canadian serving their country. They should be ashamed of themselves!


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## The Bread Guy (17 Mar 2009)

Want to help folks in custody, do they?  I await their visit with THIS Canadian to see how she's doing.  Maybe the party leader can talk her out, right?


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## helpup (17 Mar 2009)

If you took the jail time in the first place rather then run away and hide in "good ole Canada".  That would be standing up for your principals. You volunteer for a army and sign a dotted line you are bound to your commitment to that army.  Dont like it start putting in memo's and accept the results.  NO SYMPATHY here!!!!!


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## ModlrMike (17 Mar 2009)

> Some 200 American deserters are thought to have fled to Canada to avoid service in Iraq. None so far have been granted refugee status. During the Vietnam War, an estimated 90,000 Americans won refuge in Canada, mostly to avoid the draft.



Therein lies the difference. The draft dodgers chose not to serve, AND not to go while the "war resisters" chose to serve BUT not to go. Two distinctly different actions. While there are arguments to be made about the first group, it is clear that the second group must take responsibility for their actions. If their moral character is such that they won't participate in the war, then they must have the moral character to live with the consequences rather than flee the country.


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## helpup (17 Mar 2009)

Even with events such as Stop-loss, ( and I dont really agree with the U.S Govt doing that for this conflict) There is a big differance in putting in paperwork against it and doing the consequences or running away from it.  The whole running away from your problems I just dont get.  Being drafted is a bit of a differant story that I am not going to comment on this post.


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## The Bread Guy (17 Mar 2009)

Now, the Liberals (or a branch thereof) have to get in on the act (although stopping short of visiting).....


> The Liberal Women’s Caucus is calling on the Conservative government to show its support for U.S. war resisters who are seeking to stay in Canada.  “These are individuals who have left military service related to a war not sanctioned by the United Nations and who have no criminal record,” said Chair of the National Liberal Women’s Caucus Maria Minna. “As Canadians, we must show them compassion instead of punishing them for their principles.” .... “One of these individuals, Kimberly Rivera, has a warrant out for her arrest in the United States and is currently breastfeeding her three-month-old daughter Katie Marie,” said Ms. Minna. “By deporting Ms. Rivera and her family back to the U.S., we are saying that it is ok for her to be separated from her daughter for conscientiously refusing to support a war that was not sanctioned by the international community.”


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## helpup (18 Mar 2009)

They have not left the military service they are AWOL, and outright deserted.  There are mechanisms in place in the US Forces to not go over ( not all successfull mind you ) and there are consequences when you volunteer for a job and decide not to do it.  Most of those consequences do not involve a criminal record but a dishonorable discharge ( correct me if I am wrong ).  I dont get the whole not sanctioned by the United Nations bit.  Most wars are not sanctioned. I may as well turn that around and state that the service is related to a war not offically opposed by the United Nations. 
Call me a Cynic I would like some details about this 3 month kid suckling on mom.  concieved at what point in her running away process.  I would call these people tools but tools are usfull unless they are broken.


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## ARMY_101 (18 Mar 2009)

How do you respond to the argument that they've left the war because it's "illegal" and "immoral"?  (I don't buy it; it just seems to be a common argument about why they should be allowed to run away.)


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## ModlrMike (18 Mar 2009)

ARMY_101 said:
			
		

> How do you respond to the argument that they've left the war because it's "illegal" and "immoral"?  (I don't buy it; it just seems to be a common argument about why they should be allowed to run away.)



You do it by accepting that if you're going to claim bravery and the moral high ground in opposing the war, then you have a moral obligation to exhibit the courage to live with the consequences of your decision. Running away to avoid the consequences is nether moral nor brave.


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## The Bread Guy (18 Mar 2009)

ARMY_101 said:
			
		

> How do you respond to the argument that they've left the war because it's "illegal" and "immoral"?



I draw the parallel to a police officer who chooses not to protect an individual, or a firefighter not putting out a house fire, because they disagree with what the person is doing or what's happening at the house.  If you really disagree with what the political masters are doing with the force....



			
				ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You do it by accepting that if you're going to claim bravery and the moral high ground in opposing the war, then you have a moral obligation to exhibit the courage to live with the consequences of your decision.


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## Teflon (18 Mar 2009)

I have no problem with an individual who joins a military who refuses to go serve in a conflict he/she is morally oposed to if He/She states their reasons and stands up for them to face the concequences. Those that DESERT are not taking a stand based off moral values (how does their running away do anything help) All they are doing getting them out of doing what they don't want to do (be it out of cowerdice or selfishness) DESERTERs are NOT taking a moral stand but then again they certainly arn't going to pitch their story by telling the truth (ie: I ran away because I don't want to risk getting hurt or killed or I love this army gig as long as I get the pay and benifits without assumming any risk to myself!)


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## ExSarge (19 Mar 2009)

Let’s look at this from another angle; under civil law (both US and CDN) a contract is a binding legal document. These individuals signed a contract with the US military and then swore an oath. The contract states in part that they will obey all legal orders. The oath states “I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”. Now they and their supported are surprised that the government expects them to honour the contract. Their actions are akin to someone from an environmental group who signs a contract to buy a house and refusing to complete the deal because he just realized that trees were used to provide the building material. 
There has not been a draft in the US in over thirty years. None of these individuals was forced to join the military. They are all adults, and one would suppose that they managed to pass the minimum intelligence requirements for enlistment. They joined for the pay and the GI benefits that the US military pays out, everything from education support to housing and small business loans (Under the GI Bill). They gave no thought to what military service entails, they saw nothing but what they could get out of it.


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## OldSolduer (19 Mar 2009)

So Olivia Chow is angry Canada deported him is she? :rage:

Too bad Olivia. We have laws here in CANADA   to prevent people from avoiding their DUTY in their own nation.
Ms. Chow saying that qualifies for the stupidest thing I've heard, ever.

I would say more, but my personable demeanour prevents me from doing that.  :rage:

Ms Chow wants to make me become physically ill.


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## HDE (20 Mar 2009)

Seems a bit of a stretch to see Olivia and Boris as "Canadian officials"; strictly speaking they weren't there acting on behalf of the Government of Canda.  Personally I've seen Olivia Chow engage in far too much melodrama/photo op behaviour over the years to give much credence to what she says.


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## Shrek1985 (21 Mar 2009)

These people are lucky it's 'unfashionable' to declare war anymore. Not that the leftists would let them get away with it, but I am willing to bet that the maximum punishment for desertion in the face of the enemy (in time of war) is still death.

What most people, my own family included, seem to forget is that these people have commited the greatest sin possible in the armed forces, they have abandoned their comrades when in need. And no lesser an insult for ever deserted, someone else had to take their place. I would love to see if anyone has died in the place of these 'men' while they were busy taking their 'stands'.

Last but not least I seem to recall the good ole Sergeant York (CMH) was a Quaker. That's my response to anyone with religious or pacifistic convictions. After all Pacifism is the original Immoral Position as a pacifist refuses to defend that which defends him or her. Too bad almost no one raises their kids anymore to belive in 'My Country, Right or Wrong'


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## OldSolduer (21 Mar 2009)

Shrek:

Well said!


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## mariomike (21 Mar 2009)

Shrek1985 said:
			
		

> Last but not least I seem to recall the good ole Sergeant York (CMH) was a Quaker. That's my response to anyone with religious or pacifistic convictions.



Sergeant York was a man of strong convictions by the time the war started. It's an interesting story:
http://www.workersforjesus.com/york.htm

He applied for Conscientious Objector status, but was denied by his draft board:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conscientious_Objector_Claim_of_Appeal_for_Alvin_Cullum_York.gif


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## Jarnhamar (21 Mar 2009)

> Parliamentarians Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj traveled to the Naval Consolidated Brig Miramar in San Diego where Long is serving a 15-month sentence after pleading guilty last August to a reduced charge of desertion.
> 
> During the 45-minute meeting, the government officials were not allowed to take notes or record the interview. Chow said Long appeared in good spirits and did not complain, but told them that he missed his young son in Canada.
> 
> "My heart sank, it was very heavy," Chow said after the meeting. "I was angry that Canada deported him."



He missed his son in Canada. That's pretty sad, no more or less sad though than all the thousands of serving members overseas who miss THEIR family. 

Only difference is this fellow knows he's seeing his son again in 15 months, soldiers serving in theater can't make that claim.

He's doing a 15 month jail sentence? That's just about as long as he would be doing if he was sent overseas right?
Seems too easy.
Serve 15 months, dishonourable discharge see you later.

Is there an email address or something for Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj? I'd like to mail them and send my regards.


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## the 48th regulator (21 Mar 2009)

So,

Who paid for their trip down there?  Themselves, the Party, We taxpayers?

Is this now a precedence they  have set?  They will visit a deserter of a foreign nation, in that person's country.

Wonder how many famlilies, of the fallen, and wounded Canadian soldiers those two have travelled to visit.

dileas

tess


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## GAP (21 Mar 2009)

In days gone past, a dishonorable discharge had drastic consequences when job hunting. I wonder if anyone even pays attention now, except for sensitive postions requiring a security clearance....


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## Journeyman (22 Mar 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Is there an email address or something for Olivia Chow and Borys Wrzesnewskyj? I'd like to mail them and send my regards.



Olivia Chow (NDP), MP Trinity-Spadina
Parliament Hill:
362 West Block, House Of Commons
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6

Tel: 613-992-2352
Fax: 613-992-6301

Constituency Office:
144 Augusta Ave
Toronto, ON M5T 2L5

Tel: 416-533-2710
Fax: 416-533-2236

Email Olivia at:
chowo@parl.gc.ca

-----

Borys Wrzesnewskyj (Lib), Etobicoke Centre
Parliament Hill:
362 West Block, House Of Commons
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6

Constituency Office 
250 Wincott Drive, Unit 29 (In Richview Plaza)
Etobicoke, Ontario
M9R 2R5

Telephone: (416) 249-7322 

Email: wrzesb@parl.gc.ca

Join Borys on Facebook!
http://www.new.facebook.com/pages/Borys-Wrzesnewskyj/6713503557

-------------

Don't be shy, and please use spell-check. 
Oh, and don't expect your opinions to carry too much weight -- they're opposition members desperate only to get elected to a majority government....and you're writing from a place they simply cannot recognize -- beyond the Greater Toronto Area.


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## proudnurse (22 Mar 2009)

desertfox115 said:
			
		

> I hope they did not use government funds to see our poor boy since we are in a deep recession. Instead it  could be used to help other Canadians that really need the help. : :-[ :crybaby:



Agreed, I also noted he misses his son. Not only did the soldier try and seek refuge here but starting a family too while in the country illegally.... Whatever will they tell their son as he grows up? That in itself is very sad. 

He is where he belongs to be, send him home.. leave him where he is, minus 'visits' on Canadians tax dollars, from those who should have stayed home.. or perhaps a visit instead to some of our wounded warriors and families, or those serving would equate for something alot more commendable.


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## OldSolduer (22 Mar 2009)

Oh so the DESERTER misses his son. Well I freakin really miss mine :'(. The difference is that he will see his son one day.
I don't want to play the poor me role....but this is garbage and Olivia and this other twerp need to know that 116 CANADIAN families miss their sons, husbands, brothers, grandsons, etc. :rage:

I'm fit to be tied. rant ends, but I don't know for how long. 
As far as I'm concerned, Ms Chow and her Liberal puppet are as near to being traitors as can be. Not quite there, but close.


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## Shec (22 Mar 2009)

Oh heck.  Why we don't we just re-unite the family and give daddy a government job, like say Olivia & her husband Jack's personal parliamentary page, so that they can all self-actualize?


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## proudnurse (22 Mar 2009)

quote: My heart sank, it was very heavy," Chow said after the meeting. "I was angry that Canada deported him."

Does her heart not sink for the families of soldiers KIA? This just clarifies for me why I'd never vote NDP. The thought of people being like this in office, to possibly let deserters stay here... while our soldiers are fighting and getting killed overseas... cringe. They should be ashamed of themselves for this lack of respect.


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## OldSolduer (22 Mar 2009)

proudnurse said:
			
		

> quote: My heart sank, it was very heavy," Chow said after the meeting. "I was angry that Canada deported him."
> 
> Does her heart not sink for the families of soldiers KIA? This just clarifies for me why I'd never vote NDP. The thought of people being like this in office, to possibly let deserters stay here... while our soldiers are fighting and getting killed overseas... cringe. They should be ashamed of themselves for this lack of respect.



Typical of the new NDP...worry about murderers, cowards and thugs rather than honest folk.


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## Canadian Mind (22 Mar 2009)

They do advocate bringing us home immediately, so you can't say they don't worry about us either.

But then many of us may or may not agree with that option.


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## mariomike (22 Mar 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Oh so the DESERTER misses his son. Well I freakin really miss mine :'(. The difference is that he will see his son one day.
> I don't want to play the poor me role....but this is garbage and Olivia and this other twerp need to know that 116 CANADIAN families miss their sons, husbands, brothers, grandsons, etc. :rage:
> 
> I'm fit to be tied. rant ends, but I don't know for how long.
> As far as I'm concerned, Ms Chow and her Liberal puppet are as near to being traitors as can be. Not quite there, but close.



That's not a rant, because it comes from your heart.


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## OldSolduer (22 Mar 2009)

Thanks for the support folks. You are truly the best people on this earth.

As far as Olivia and her Liberal puppet are concerned, they are not relevant. When they seem to care more about a foreigner...a deserter at that, than their OWN CITIZENS, I take offence at that. :rage:


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## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Mar 2009)

Ms. Chow doesn't care about this guy more, or less, than she cares about you and/or I,.......this guy just happens to get her cheap political milage.
Its not like she could possibly come up with something intelligent about the recession that would might score her press time.

Once an attention whore,.........


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## GDawg (22 Mar 2009)

Were public funds used to pay for this trip? If so, do you think I should write to the Auditor General about this? I'd be pretty furious if it turned out that our tax dollars were spent so that MPs could visit American cowards. At any rate, this is an epic fail on the part of elected representatives to waste time while they are on our dime to visit foreign criminals for no apparent or logical reason.


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## George Wallace (22 Mar 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Thanks for the support folks. You are truly the best people on this earth.
> 
> As far as Olivia and her Liberal puppet are concerned, they are not relevant. When they seem to care more about a foreigner...a deserter at that, than their OWN CITIZENS, I take offence at that. :rage:



Now, if only people in her Riding remember that during the next election; that she cares more about foreigners, than Canadians, then perhaps she will not sit in the next Parliament.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Mar 2009)

> Hello
> I just read an article titled
> "Canadian Officials Visit US Deserter
> March 16, 2009
> ...


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## GDawg (22 Mar 2009)

Excellent letter Flawed Design! You kept a cool head and wrote something eloquent and from the heart. I hope you receive a response as respectful and well thought out as what you've asked of these misguided MPs.


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## GAP (22 Mar 2009)

Excellent


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## ModlrMike (22 Mar 2009)

Don't be surprised if you get some mealy mouthed reply that praises the "hero war resister" while suggesting that you and the Conservative government are the real villains. If they respond at all.


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## agenteagle (22 Mar 2009)

He's doing a 15 month jail sentence? That's just about as long as he would be doing if he was sent overseas right?
Seems too easy

Actually I have many friends in the US Army that have done several 18 month tours so he is getting off easy.

I have submitted my application to join the CF but I currently live in the US and my wife and children are American. My wife wanted me to at least look at the US Army before joining the Canadian Army.  The US Army has signing bonuses for $2000 to $40,000 and you get the GI Bill which for $1200 gives you over $80,000 for college. Most of those 200 deserters in Canada had no problem with their free education and bonuses, not to mention free healthcare and housing. The US Army even pays for the soldiers food. And this son born in Canada to an American with no status. Who paid for the son to be born? Canadian tax payers?

I will say that making him stay in the US will be punishment enough because work places that pay anything do background checks and dishonorable discharge will disqualify him from any good jobs. That means this guy will be making minimum wage for the rest of his life in the US and will regret it. I can understand draft dodgers even though I think it wrong but volunteer Army deserters should be shot. Or dropped in the middle of the battle field they were running from by himself with no support. 

I can tell you Canada's stance of not allowing deserters to stay is being praised here in America and among the America Army. I would expect the US would do the same if the roles were reversed.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Mar 2009)

C'mon everyone. No more harping against Layton's wife. 

This has NOTHING to do with a US deserter and EVERYTHING with Chow getting a shopping trip and media face time. She knows her trip will accomplish nothing except frequent flyer miles and a couple of more minor 65 year old hippie votes.


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## ExSarge (23 Mar 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> C'mon everyone. No more harping against Layton's wife.
> 
> This has NOTHING to do with a US deserter and EVERYTHING with Chow getting a shopping trip and media face time. She knows her trip will accomplish nothing except frequent flyer miles and a couple of more minor 65 year old hippie votes.



Well said, and with that I propose we have wasted enough bandwidth on these knuckleheads…deserters and shoppers alike!


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## GAP (23 Mar 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> C'mon everyone. No more harping against Layton's wife.
> 
> This has NOTHING to do with a US deserter and EVERYTHING with Chow getting a shopping trip and media face time. She knows her trip will accomplish nothing except frequent flyer miles and a couple of more minor 65 year old hippie votes.



This is not Layton's wife we are talking about....it's a Canadian MP. She is not a civilian. Because she happens to be married to a dork and chooses to act in the same manner to gain publicity and play to their segment of the population and vote, does not relieve her of the criticism of the act being distasteful. 

This is especially true in light of the NDP's stance on the CF being in Afghanistan and their overall criticism of the CF in general.


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