# Uniform when abroad



## Shepard (20 Feb 2013)

Greetings,

(yes, I've searched and read the Uniform PDF, but my question was not quite answered by the reading.)

I am planning to visit a long-time friend in the States, sort of as a surprise, so I am wondering that if I ask my chain of command, would there be a chance that they would permit me to be in uniform when I surprise visit them? Will it be a big "NO" due to how I would not currently be on duty? Could I expect to hear an approval? 

Note: I am a reservist.

Thank you for your time, and I apologize if this had already been asked.


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## dimsum (20 Feb 2013)

If you write a memo to the CoC stating why wearing a uniform is appropriate for this, sure.  The CF100 leave pass also has a tickbox for whether uniform will be worn on leave.

Depending on what the situation is, it may be approved.  I know of one who wore DEU to his father's funeral, for example.


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## PMedMoe (20 Feb 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Depending on what the situation is, it may be approved.  I know of one who wore DEU to his father's funeral, for example.



Keep in mind, if approved by the CoC, it will (more than likely) be DEU, not CADPAT.


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## garb811 (20 Feb 2013)

If they are looking for the reference to approve, it is QR&O 17.04:



> 17.04 - WHEN UNIFORM WORN
> 
> (1) Unless the Chief of the Defence Staff otherwise directs, an officer or non-commissioned member:
> 
> ...


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## dapaterson (20 Feb 2013)

As a Reservist, QR&O 17.06 also applies (emphasis added):

(http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-017-eng.asp#cha-017-06)



> 17.06 - WEARING OF UNIFORM - RESTRICTION
> 
> (1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.
> 
> ...


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## BDTyre (24 Feb 2013)

I've worn my uniform outside of Canada for a wedding once; and a few years back I was in Edinburgh on Remembrance Sunday and saw an armoured reservist in the crowd in his DEUs. I never did get a chance to talk to him, so it is entirely possible he was on an exchange.


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Short answer:
No.


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Feb 2013)

If you are a Cl A reservist, you wouldn't even be 'on leave'.

If you are a Cl B and going on leave, you could try to have your CO sign off on it as "an appropriate ceremony" IAW the regs above.  But...I'd say "good luck on that".


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Feb 2013)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Short answer:
> No.



Did you even read the regs posted?


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Yeah...answer still stands...No.


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Feb 2013)

:

The regs permit it "IF" the approving authority supports the request.  I don't believe that would be likely in this case, but the flat "no" is not accurate.


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Let me put it this way then.

If it was one of my subordinates...my question would be why, in the first place. If it's just to "surprise"... then NO.
It had better be a damn good reason. Staff a memo, I would vet it, minute it with a recommendation that it not be approved IAW the relavent orders.

See, too easy.


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## Disenchantedsailor (24 Feb 2013)

Ok from the perspective of one of those folks who approves this kind of thing.
Is it possible YES. 

As this is not a leave type situation (I am assuming the original poster is Reservist on Class A service) there is not requirement to ask for leave. If however it is an appropriate military occasion (course graduation, another units mess dinner, official gathering) It would quite likely be approved. For example there are quite a few Canadian reservists who travel to Minot North Dakota annually for the military ball.


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Irrelevant. Military functions are fine...kind of a no brainer really.

Just for impressing your buddies in another country...No

Approving this request just because you think you're right is not responsible.


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Feb 2013)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Let me put it this way then.
> 
> If it was one of my subordinates...my question would be why, in the first place. If it's just to "surprise"... then NO.
> It had better be a damn good reason. Staff a memo, I would vet it, minute it with a recommendation that it not be approved IAW the relavent orders.
> ...



While the likelyhood of this instance being supported as presented  is low (IMO) the fact remains the regs do allow for it to happen, if the AA supports.  You aren't on the list of approving authority types though, nor am I.  

So, IMO, anything we say isn't much more than  :deadhorse: at this point...so I'll just jockey back to the lowground.


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

..occupying a hull down waiting for the next target...


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Feb 2013)

Don't fool yourself into thinking you were right so I disengaged, running away in a state of mental disarray.   :

I called mom, and she said I _still_ can't pick on littler kids or stupid people...so...


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Hmmm....a little high on ourselves?


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## Haggis (24 Feb 2013)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Irrelevant. Military functions are fine...kind of a no brainer really.
> 
> Just for impressing your buddies in another country...No



I must agree with Jammer. Had this specific request crossed my desk the answer would have been "No" as well.


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## Journeyman (24 Feb 2013)

Truth be told, you're _both_ coming across as a couple of douches.


Just sayin'


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## Haggis (24 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Truth be told, you're _both_ coming across as a couple of douches.
> 
> Just sayin'



Maybe so, but my answer is based on more than mere "regulations".

The definition of when a Reservist is deemed to be on duty has given rise to many legal discussions.  Reservists on duty have certain entitlements (i.e pay) which are clearly defined.  However, the second order effects of being "on duty" are less clear.  Once a Reservist puts on the uniform he is subject to the Code of Service Discipline (NDA 60(1)(c)(ii)).  If he were to commit a service offence, how would our disciplinary jurisdction be established if he committed the alleged offence in uniform but not having signed in?  NDA 60 (1)(c) (ii) notwithstanding, the usual test of "on duty" is whether the Reservist has signed a pay sheet.   If he were to get injured or killed, in uniform and while subject to the CSD, what would he be entitled to regarding benefits?  Would the CAF be responsible fro repatriating the remains?  Burying him?

So, there's a lot more to this than denying the request under QR&O 17.06 (2).


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## Journeyman (24 Feb 2013)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Maybe so, but my answer is based on more than mere "regulations".


I was referring to Eye in the Sky and Jammer, who were trying to out- :tempertantrum: one another.  Your response intervened.


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Thanks Journeyman, but if ensuring that the uniform is being represented in a manner resepectful of the Army...guilty.


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## Haggis (24 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I was referring to Eye in the Sky and Jammer, who were trying to out- :tempertantrum: one another.  Your response intervened.



I typed all that for nothing???  :crybaby:


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Good rant though...The uniform is not a f*&king costume.


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## ModlrMike (24 Feb 2013)

Shepard said:
			
		

> Greetings,
> 
> (yes, I've searched and read the Uniform PDF, but my question was not quite answered by the reading.)
> 
> ...



[SgtMaj mode]

Notwithstanding the legal position laid out by the QR&O, your proposition is not sufficiently compelling to warrant approval. Reserve members shall not wear uniform while not on duty, and attendance at a non-military event is not adequate to over ride this prohibition. 

[/SgtMaj mode]

Just for clarity, I would probably not recommend approval if you were RegF either.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Feb 2013)

I think we've heard enough on the subject.

If the OP is still interested he can ask his own bosses. It's their decision, not anyone else's. Especially anyone here.

Milnet.ca Fun Police


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## Jammer (24 Feb 2013)

Party pooper


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