# Best ammunition for M1 Garand



## NATO Boy (15 Sep 2005)

Hi everyone:

I recently bought a Springfield Armory M1 Garand at a local gun shop; IMVHO, this thing is a beauty! It's made up on a (possible) Navy receiver, Danish barrel, refinished dark-stained walnut wood throughout and USGI parts for everything else. It's chambered for .30-06 Springfield; not 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester like the other model SA offers.

My question for any M1 users/owners out there is this: What would be the best "commercial" ammo for this awesome rifle?

I say "commercial" because it's a lot easier for me to go pick up "commercial ammo" than hunting around for "mil-surp" ammo (which is probably the better option) and because ammo with medium-burning powder and a 150 gr. bullet is what's recommended; however, some M1 ethusiasts swear by "reloading" and don't recommend commercial stuff because it's "too hot" for the M1. If this is the case, what is the best option?

Wes, I'm particularly directing this at you... 

Cheers,

Mickey

P.S. - I will post some pics when my camera/uploading issues disappear.


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## NATO Boy (15 Sep 2005)

Ok, here's some gun pRon finally.  ;D


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## KLAVER (15 Sep 2005)

you lucky devil, she beautiful, so how much did it cost?


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Sep 2005)

i've used surplus in my M-1 no problems, but its corrosive, so you're smart to be looking for commercial.  No brand names or #grains come to mind immediately; I had no problems with 150 grain stuff.  I used to work in a gun store and the boss swore by it, so take it for what it is worth.


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## 1feral1 (15 Sep 2005)

She's really nice MATE! I got my M1 back in 1978, a SA original Ser 4115XX, made in Dec 41. She is in storage in Saskatchewan, and next year I hope to go 'bark'n' with her.

Now about ammo, well I had used heaps over the yrs, mainly US genuine G1 LC and other good US lots. If you can find it great. Clips are cheap too. Best to buy US mil spec. I have used ammo ranging from wartime to the late 1960s. This 1960s stuff even came clipped in bandoleers (and was from Central America somewhere) I have also used CIL/IVI 180gr KKSP back in my bear hunt'n days in the early 80s too.

I have also used reloads, and another good breed of ammo is the Yugolsavian .30 ball. Its mil spec, and Australia bought milllions of ball from them to feed our Browning 1919A4 upgraded L3A3/A4 .30cals which we use in the T50 turrets on our M113's, along with the M2 .50.

I will confess, be careful what you use, Mike is right, as there is a chance of corrosive primers in some types of ammo, especially berdan primed Euro stuff, so make sure you pull her thru good when your done at the end of the day, and give her a good clean ASAP.

You'll like your M1, its earned a good rep in WW2, Korea, adn VN, considering the Yanks have had it in service since 1936!

Nice poster, eh!

Here's my Grand ole Garand herself.

Good shooting,

Wes


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## NATO Boy (15 Sep 2005)

"The M1 does my talking."  ;D Good ole Propaganda Remix.



			
				Brendo_51 said:
			
		

> you lucky devil, she beautiful, so how much did it cost?



$700 - not exactly a "steal" but compared to buying a brand new model (1300-1400 US at SA) or an original USGI that still fires (last good I saw was 1000) it seem like a good alternative.

Corrosive primers are a pain in the @$$ indeed; however, I understand that the US started making Post-War M2 Ball with non-corrosive boxer primers during the late 50s. This seems like the best stuff to get (especially since the US is still clearing out .30-06 war stocks, hence it's abundant.) Unfortunately, I don't know how often I can get to gun shows within my area; school, work and army fill my schedule. But I'll make a point of getting to some and tracking down this ammo.

More pics to follow...


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## 1feral1 (15 Sep 2005)

Not a bad price, back in '78 my M1 was bought for $260. Convert that to 2005 dollars, and back then, that was a fair bit of money. Here is another 'take' (SGT Rummy) from that wartime poster! I love it   ;D, plus another genuine M1 poster.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Craig B (15 Sep 2005)

NATO Boy , 

Finding M2 Ball in blasting quantities is quite hard now , most of its been shot up over the years and surplus is hard to come by for the importers . 

You can use commercial 150gr or 165gr ammo but don't shoot heavier bullet weights, it hard on the rifle . 

Enjoy and shoot safe


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## 1feral1 (16 Sep 2005)

I do believe PMC, out of South Korea is still making the ball ammo. It too is mil spec, and is good clean ammo.

Try contacting a good dealer, like Wolverine out of Manitoba.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Craig B (16 Sep 2005)

Wes there's not a lot of ammo choices in Canada . Importing is quite a pain in the @$$ due to Canadian regs and buying in the US can land you in trouble now from the Americians . 

NATO Boy , check your local gunshop , ask if they can order you a case of Winchester .30-06 product code USA3006 . Its pretty close to M2 Ball . Around $15/box of 20 . 

Craig


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## 1feral1 (16 Sep 2005)

I guess times have changed since I left.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Craig B (16 Sep 2005)

They sure have Wes and not for the better   . Its not as bad as England or Australia ...... yet .


Craig


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## NATO Boy (18 Sep 2005)

More gun pRon...


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## MG34 (20 Sep 2005)

Bah!! M1 garand is softcore gun porn,how about a modern rifle.


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## NATO Boy (20 Sep 2005)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Bah!! M1 garand is softcore gun porn,how about a modern rifle.



There's no school better than "old-school"   ....although Kev might have something to say about that.  ;D


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## Michael Dorosh (20 Sep 2005)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Bah!! M1 garand is softcore gun porn,how about a modern rifle.



So start another thread about one instead of pissing in this one.  ??? :


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## pegged (24 Sep 2005)

Milsurp's are beautiful. My two favorite guns are my M1 and my Enfield No4mk1. Got my 1911 in the mail yesterday  ;D

Here's my M1. '43 Winchester with a 59 date VAR barrel. It looks much better than in the pics, my camera's strange at times.


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## 1feral1 (25 Sep 2005)

Nice M1 Mate, nice!

Wes


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## NATO Boy (25 Sep 2005)

Nice indeed....is that an apple holding up your Garand?  

Looking for a sling for mine too (is your Canvas sling a Korean-Era model, or is it just a Blancoed WWII sling); thinking of getting a repro M1907 sling and treating it with mink oil (seems appropriate for mine, anyway.)

Wes, my friendly neighbour was kind enough to give me some post-war M2 Ball (dated '56?!? I think); when I get it to a range I'll let you guys know how good it shoots.


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## x westie (25 Sep 2005)

Any of you fellows who are M1 fans have any info on how the M1 stood up to the winter weather in the Korean War, the Korean winter is alto like a Canadian winter , i know i read that the M1 carbine had problems with stoppages in the cold weather, i don't know if the Yanks were expecting this type of climate when they first landed in Korea, probably didn't have the proper lubricants to keep these weapons firing, I'm' only guessing, i know there are better infomed people than me to answer this one, maybe--" Wes the "AUSSIE Gun Plummer" can help us out on the Korean cold weather problem. thanks :CD:


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## NATO Boy (25 Sep 2005)

x westie said:
			
		

> Any of you fellows who are M1 fans have any info on how the M1 stood up to the winter weather in the Korean War, the Korean winter is alto like a Canadian winter , i know i read that the M1 carbine had problems with stoppages in the cold weather, i don't know if the Yanks were expecting this type of climate when they first landed in Korea, probably didn't have the proper lubricants to keep these weapons firing, I'm' only guessing, i know there are better infomed people than me to answer this one, maybe--" Wes the "AUSSIE Gun Plummer" can help us out on the Korean cold weather problem. thanks :CD:



General Douglas MacArthur reported on the M1 to the Ordnance Department during heavy fighting on Bataan that:

    "Under combat conditions it operated with no mechanical defects and when used in foxholes did not develop stoppages from dust or dirt. It has been in almost constant action for as much as a week without cleaning or lubrication."

An excerpt (sp?) from M1 GARAND 1936 TO 1957 *(Joe Poyer and Craig Riesch)*

"Troops who used the new rifle in the South Pacific were astonished at how well it stood up to the salt water corrosion, the sand, mud, tropical rain - or in the Aleutians - to the freezing fogs and snow."

As for proper lubricants, the M1 used two grease types for maintenance; small arms grease pots and cold weather grease pots. When neither could be acquired, motor oil (the same grade used in trucks and armoured vehicles, e.t.c.) could be used in a pinch (and apparently worked well!)

Cheers,

Mickey


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## 1feral1 (26 Sep 2005)

NATO Boy said:
			
		

> Wes, my friendly neighbour was kind enough to give me some post-war M2 Ball (dated '56?!? I think); when I get it to a range I'll let you guys know how good it shoots.



Aslong as the ammo was kept cool and dry and appears cleans, she'll be right mate. Happy shooting! 

As for the M1 carbine in cold weather ops. The Yanks have had LAW (Arctic use oil) oil for yonks, its pretty thin and for cold weather, but in combat situations especially 50yrs ago, when the supply system was under pressure and proper winter boots were in short supply, I would imagine engine oil, etc was used. In that case one would be better off keeping the carbine dry or have little oil on it. Although the M1 carbine was 'piston' driven, it could NOT be readily removed, as a special armourers tool was required. The piston was the floating type, and freely moved back and forth, even when dirty. There was no spring involved.

Like all rifles and small arms in general, its up to the user under thte proper guidance from Sec Comds and 2ICs to keep up the maintenace on their weapons, and ensure that they are clean and ready for use.

I used to own an M1 Carbine, an original genuine GI Saginaw Steering and Gear, 1943. Nice one too, shot it many times in all seasons, but it did not get the abuse it would have under battlefield conditions. That M1 came out of SIR Wpg in 1976 for a whopping $109.99, and a copy of my drivers licence for ID. Those were the days!

M1 rifle and M1 carbine, too entirely different weapons and different calibres.

Cheers,

Wes


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (26 Sep 2005)

Its prohibited under Canadian law


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (26 Sep 2005)

Maybe in some Very distant future would the libreals consider changing there stupid gun laws, but I don't see it happening,
also was the FN C1A1 easily modified into a full automatic weapon? 
I heard storys from a friend who was in the Res in the early '80's about how the used to use a toothpick to modify the guns to full auto,
I can't see that ever being made legal again.


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## Craig B (26 Sep 2005)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> Uh, well could that law not be changed?



Of course it could be changed ..... but it won't . 

Can't have armed peasants can we ?

Craig


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## NATO Boy (26 Sep 2005)

Craig B said:
			
		

> Can't have armed peasants can we ?



Sure we can...but it'll allow said peasants to make more "Michigan Militia" type zaniness!


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## Craig B (27 Sep 2005)

NATO Boy said:
			
		

> Sure we can...but it'll allow said peasants to make more "Michigan Militia" type zaniness!



Indeed . 

The peasants might even begin to think that they " know better " than the Lords that they plow for . Might not want to pay their 51% taxes or other such nonsense .  

Craig


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## redleafjumper (27 Sep 2005)

Well there are some of us that are eligible to buy prohibiteds firearms like the FN, I only one one FN C1A1 (an 8L) and I'd be perfectly happy to own a few more.  I picked up an M2 carbine and an M1 Garand several years ago and they are both lovely rifles and great fun to shoot.
Regarding the best ammunition for the Garand, shooters should be aware that while the rifle is quite robust and tolerant, when reloading ammunition for it one must be careful to use powders in the medium burning range (Sierra Rifle Reloading Manual, 4th edition page 428).
According to Sierra, Garands can be damaged by improper powder selection even if the loads themselves are safe.


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## teddy49 (28 Sep 2005)

The danger to Garands from hot ammo is to the lllllllooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg op rod.  When the pressure curve from the ammo is too sharp, the rod tends to bend slightly.  This may or may not be visible.  But either way it will impede function.  The winchester ammunition mentioned previously in the thread, 150 gr FMJ, (I think packaged in USA boxes) is one of the few if not only commercial loading designed specifically to mimic the pressure curve of M2 ball.  I seem to recall the american PMC also had a loading in this catagory, but I'm not 100% on that.  The winchester is about the cheapest you'll find .30-06 anyway.


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## NATO Boy (28 Sep 2005)

So Winchester .30-06 150gr is the best commmercial option......seems to be concurrent with the majority.

Now does this mean ANY Winchester 150gr .30-06 (SP, Accutip, FMJ, JHP, Core-lokt, e.t.c.) or just FMJ 150gr?

If it's the first one, I can get Winchester .30-06 ANYWHERE!   But if it's the other one (crosses fingers) then at least I know what specifics to look for (medium burning powder, 150 gr. FMJ, mil surp brass, non-corrosive boxer primers.)


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## teddy49 (1 Oct 2005)

Just the FMJ


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## NATO Boy (14 Nov 2005)

Well, I finally got a chance to take the Garand for a test run today; I even found awesome ammo I don't have to import. Stay tuned....the range results are coming up


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## NATO Boy (14 Nov 2005)

Last week I went to my gunstore and was going to buy some .30-06 SP 150gr. when I came across something better. Remington is remarketing their UMC (UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE Co.)   brand of ammo (or at least it's not in a yellow box now) for budget shooters. I ended up picking up the .30-06 UMC since this stuff is a clone to the M2 Ball in ballistics (and it's full metal jacket to boot.) Then a week later (today) I set off to the range and put some rounds down range....




My targets of choice....12'' Medium Pizza boxes (Mmmm....deep dish)




A badass view of the business end pointing down range, isn't she pretty...




My first Grouping at 50 yds



My second grouping at 50 yds



It's easy to tell I'm no marksman by stretch of imagination (heck, I'm fortunate if I do BETTER than pass on the PWT1,2, and 3) but what you can tell is how easy it is to group shots with this beast. I also experienced the "7th shot stoppage" with the first 2 clips fired; I ended up finding out my clips were loaded opposite of what they should be and reloaded them, no more "7th shot stoppages."

First Grouping at 100 yds



Second Grouping at 100 yds




Same as before; first group shite, second much better. For reference again, the box is 12'' (some of these groupings are around 3'' ish.)

...and then of course...I ended up trying some double-taps (yes, like the movies) which are much harder with the Garand than it seems (bloody thing has a hearty kick.)   

What really impressed me is that it shot like this with a rough zero...I didn't have to change windage or elevation at all!  

Edit: Edited for spelling...whoops!


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## teddy49 (15 Nov 2005)

Just curious, how were your clips loaded opposite of what they should be?  That Garand uses Dual Position feeding so I can's see how that would be an issue.  I've never paid attention to how I put the 8 rounds into the clip, just that there were 8 rounds in there, and I've never had feeding trouble with mine.  Now if I could just keep the trigger group from falling out on the 6th round.


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## NATO Boy (15 Nov 2005)

Teddy,

The way they're supposed to be loaded is the top round is to the right...don't know why (the US Army Manual states this makes loading the clips in the weapon easier for right-handed shooters, although I have yet to notice the difference.)

As for the "seventh round stoppage," the history behind the problem was mainly from the earlier receivers that Springfield Armory (back then Springfield Arsenals) manufactured. The problem came from a certain cut in the right hand receiver wall that caused the 7th round to either misfeed or prematurely eject with a spent case (had that happen too.) They later fixed the issue by milling the receiver a bit differently (mine's a '44, so it's not a problem child early model.) However, my problem came from loading the clips differently (top round left) and disappeared after I reloaded them to the USGI standard. After that, she fed beautifully.  ??? Maybe it's because my clips are brand new (shrugs) and need to be broken in a bit? Other than that, nothing else is really wrong...

Glad to hear your Garand works good; you're joking about the "trigger group falling out on the 6th round," right?  :rofl:
If not...


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## teddy49 (16 Nov 2005)

Wish I was joking.  I guess the trigger guard doesn't have enough tension on the back of the trigger group, so it vibrates itself open when I fire rapidly.  I've been trying to decide whether I should just bend it closed a bit to give it more tension, or if I should just go hunting for a new trigger group.  Don't know what that would cost, or if I could even get it into the country.  Incedently mine's also a 1944 production Springfield.


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## NATO Boy (16 Nov 2005)

That sucks   ;if it helps (I'm sure you already know this,) www.marstar.ca sells most (if not all) of the parts for M1 Garand trigger assemblies.
And they're located here in "our home and native land," no duties, no customs bull$hi7. Pricey, but still feasible.


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## 1feral1 (17 Nov 2005)

Mickey said:
			
		

> As for the "seventh round stoppage," the history behind the problem was mainly from the earlier receivers that Springfield Armory (back then Springfield Arsenals) manufactured. The problem came from a certain cut in the right hand receiver wall that caused the 7th round to either misfeed or prematurely eject with a spent case (had that happen too.) They later fixed the issue by milling the receiver a bit differently (mine's a '44, so it's not a problem child early model.) However, my problem came from loading the clips differently (top round left) and disappeared after I reloaded them to the USGI standard. After that, she fed beautifully.   ??? Maybe it's because my clips are brand new (shrugs) and need to be broken in a bit? Other than that, nothing else is really wrong...



The grand ole Garand!

My M1 is a Dec 41 Springfield Armory ser 4115XX, and I've owned it since 1978 firing 1000s of rds out of it, and I can safely say, I have never even had a stoppage, even with blanks (yes I had heaps of these and a BFA which is wierd enought to describe, yet how it attaches).

I have loaded the 8rds clips either way, and again never a problem. I have always used G1 M2 ball or Mil Spec, say PMC for example, and even IVI 150 or 180gr SP ammo for bear hunting. Again nver a problem. US .30 tracer, AP and API worked well too.

Cheers,

Wes


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## NATO Boy (17 Nov 2005)

Wes,

I discovered something else that was kinda cool (but might be bad after firing, I took my gun home and started cleaning it that evening when (to my surprize) I was able to unthread the gas port nut with my fingers (and not a wrench / combo tool.). All that time I was firing with a loose gas nut and yet the Garand worked fine. I felt this was testament to how well the gas system works in this rifle. As for cleaning, it seems the only areas you need to clean badly are the gas parts and the barrel; other than brass flakes in the receiver floor, everything else was clean! I like...


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## NATO Boy (25 Dec 2005)

...so there I was, having dinner with my family and relatives on Dec. 24th. We decided to exchange some gifts early; my first present (from my cousin) came in an old cardboard box...

Hmmm.....what mil-surp antique could this be....it had heft to it, but I couldn't even begin to guess, until, I opened it...

Two words... HOLY crap!

The box was filled with 100 rounds of M2 BALL; all of it is dated '42. Although this stuff has seen better days, it's still completely intact and useable.

Pics and headstamps to follow....


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## NATO Boy (25 Dec 2005)

As I said before, all the stuff is dated '42. Most of it is in good shape (with odd blue dot of rot here and there.)





As for headstamps, most of it is TW 42; Twin Cities Army Ammunition Plant , Minneapolis, Minn., USA wich operated under Federal Cartidge Co. from 1942 - 1945 and then reopened in the '50s (still exists today.)

Here's a closeup of the TW 42 stuff...





The rest of it is stamped DEN 42; Denver Ordnance Plant, Denver, Colo., USA., which was operated by Remington Arms from 1941 to 1944.

Here's a pic that slightly better shows the "rot spots" on some of the cartridges. Surprisingly, the DEN 42 stuff doesn't have any rot or signs of bad storage...(wierd.)





As for where my cousin found this, my lips are seeled for now...he plans on finding 30 MORE boxes like this for me (a rare opportunity, indeed.) However, I don't know if I'm gonna fire off this stuff often; original ammo is very hard to come by. I wouldn't mind actually just preserving this stuff for a while (especially if it comes in it's original boxes!) My question(s) to mil-surp collectors, ammo and boomstick techies, and any other gun nuts here is this:

Is there any way to clean up this ammo? I know you can't really use oils and solvents since they can seep into the casings and make the powder unignitable (and thus turn the bullets into misfiring paperweights.) I thought about using polishing-grade steel wool, but, again, it also seems kinda dumb to do. Michael, Wes, Teddy...any remedies or ideas?


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## 1feral1 (25 Dec 2005)

This stuff will burn off no worries! I had heaps of DEN 42, and LC wartime stuff. If it was a bit more dirty, dump them into a sandbag or old piillow case and shake em up for a while (its not dangerous), this works, but 100rds might not be enough for this effect.

Good shooting! Keep a few for collection though, as wartime stocks are getting thin for this ammo.


Cheers,

Wes


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## NATO Boy (26 Dec 2005)

Well, it sounds a lot better than using steel wool (and safer, too.) I'll give it a try when / if I get more boxes of treasure.


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