# Military Doctors



## bran (28 May 2009)

Hey all, I currently have an injury and need an x-ray and MRI to find out what the problem is. The thing is my civilian doctor takes months to get an appointment with, so I know the CF has doctors but is it possible for me to do these tests and have them take care of the problem just like civilian doctors? The reason I ask is because I've never had to use a military doctor for anything before, and I have no clue where to ask this question.

I appreciate the feedback


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## Eye In The Sky (28 May 2009)

Unless you are on Class B service, no, you won't be able to access the MOs in the CF Health Services.


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## bran (28 May 2009)

Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks for the quick reply


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## dapaterson (28 May 2009)

One caveat: Military MOs will attend to class A reservists for injuries while on service.  Other than that, it's your non-military doctor.


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## bran (28 May 2009)

While on service, does that mean if you get injured on a course, or while parading?


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## dapaterson (28 May 2009)

Yes to both.  If a CF98 or other accident report was completed by the miltiary the military medical system should take care of it.

Note that there are at times problems with this - an Ombudsman's report in 2008 discussed medical care for reservists, and I believe it was the Surgeon General who said "I'm responsible for the policy, and even I'm not sure of what people are entitled to receive."


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## PMedMoe (28 May 2009)

Here's CFAO QR&O Chap 34 which outlines:



> (6) Subject to paragraph (5), a member of the Reserve Force whose need for medical care is attributable to the performance of duty is entitled:
> 
> (a) for the remaining period of duty to medical care at public expense; and
> 
> ...



As dataperson said, the military *should* take care of it.  Depending on the situation, they may not.  

For example, Cpl Bloggins twists his ankle while parading, is taken to the MIR and is looked after, while he is still on duty.  If further medical care is required, it is up to the MO and the CO to authorize it.

If Cpl Bloggins twists his ankle while parading and does not seek medical care until 1-2 days or weeks later, I doubt the CF is going to look after him.

Edited to fix mistake.   :-[


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## bran (28 May 2009)

Ok that clears things up a bit. Since it didn't happen on course, parading, etc I guess I'll have to look after it with my own doctor. Thanks though


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## dapaterson (28 May 2009)

(QR&O, not CFAO).  The age of the QR&O is showing through, though, as the MOs are no longer under the environments, but under CF Health Services.  Thus, presumably it would be the CF Surgeon General and not "the comander of a command" who would make auothrizations and determinations under QR&O chapter 34.


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## Poseur (28 May 2009)

If you're on a medical category because your injury prevents you from participating in your duties, the CF Health Services docs have some latitude to send you for tests, even if the injury wasn't incurred while on ex or parading or whatever.


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## PMedMoe (28 May 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> (QR&O, not CFAO).  The age of the QR&O is showing through, though, as the MOs are no longer under the environments, but under CF Health Services.  Thus, presumably it would be the CF Surgeon General and not "the comander of a command" who would make auothrizations and determinations under QR&O chapter 34.



Yes, you're probably right about that.



			
				Poseur said:
			
		

> If you're on a medical category because your injury prevents you from participating in your duties, the CF Health Services docs have some latitude to send you for tests, even if the injury wasn't incurred while on ex or parading or whatever.



As a reservist??  I doubt that very much.


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## Blackadder1916 (28 May 2009)

ONT said:
			
		

> Hey all, I currently have an injury and need an x-ray and MRI to find out what the problem is.



Perhaps you should leave the determination of what diagnostic procedures are required to the physician or surgeon who handles your case.



> . . . The thing is my civilian doctor takes months to get an appointment with, so I know the CF has doctors but is it possible for me to do these tests and have them take care of the problem just like civilian doctors?



Or is this a case of not agreeing with the procedures/opinion/diagnosis/treatment chosen by your civilian physician(s) for a particular condition . . . such as the medical problem you related in a couple of posts a few months ago (here where you also asked about seeing a military doctor, and here).

Your entitlement to health services (or rather, the lack thereof) has already been identified but the following is from the CF Health Services site.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/ps/guide/eli-adm-eng.asp


> *Eligibility for Health Care Benefits*
> 
> Members of the Regular Force and members of the Reserve Force on Class C service, and Class B service for over 180 consecutive days, may receive the benefits listed in this guide when deemed necessary for medical, dental or operational reasons.
> 
> ...



For info sake, even if there was an entitlement to health services from the CF, it does not automatically mean that you would be seen by a military physician; it just means that the CF pays the bills.  Military doctors are rarely available to provide clinical services in areas other than the major base locations.  It is quite likely there is no military doctor in your location.


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## bran (28 May 2009)

Who do you think told me to get an x-ray and an MRI? My doctor, she hasn't diagnosed me with anything yet so there's  nothing for me to disagree with. My point was that it will take forever to get back into see her after my results from the x-ray and MRI come back. That's why I was wondering if the military had doctors to look after these kinds of things. So that their members are healed in a shorter period of time.


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## Gunner98 (29 May 2009)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> For info sake, even if there was an entitlement to health services from the CF, it does not automatically mean that you would be seen by a military physician; it just means that the CF pays the bills.  Military doctors are rarely available to provide clinical services in areas other than the major base locations.  It is quite likely there is no military doctor in your location.



BL - this is a strange statement - "military doctor are rarely available..." - the 35 or so clinics in the CF have either uniformed medical officers, contracted civilian doctors or uniformed Physician Assistants who provide clinical services at each clinic.

ONT - can I conclude that you are entitled to treatment under OHIP and your injury was not caused while you were on duty? 

Does the injury/illness prevent you from fulfilling your military duties or more likely it has an impact on your civilian schooling or employment?  

To answer your question - if you were under a military contract whereby your military duties were your primary employment then you would have an entitlement to be seen by a military-employed physician to review your x-ray and MRI in a timely manner.  Since military personnel are not subject to the benefits provided by Canada Health Act (universal health care system) the CF must pay for any services provided by non-CF clinics or non-CF diagnostic facilities. It is in the best interest of the CF to have their soldiers heal in a timely manner because they have a job to do.

Your civilian physician is treating you under the Canada Health Act yet now you expect to line-jump because you are in the Reserves.  If your injury was related to your Reserve service then you would fall under the basic tenet - "we broke you - we will fix you".


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## bran (29 May 2009)

Frostnipped Elf said:
			
		

> ONT - can I conclude that you are entitled to treatment under OHIP and your injury was not caused while you were on duty?
> 
> Does the injury/illness prevent you from fulfilling your military duties or more likely it has an impact on your civilian schooling or employment?
> 
> ...



No my injury wasn't directly caused by my duties, however I think my duties had an impact on it, which were BMQ. The injury does hinder my abilities to perform my duties because I can't run so doing PT is tough for me, also ruch marches, or anything where im bending and straining my legs, which is almost everything. Also my injury is preventing me from doing a CT because I think that without being 100% doing BMQ would be out of the question.


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## Eye In The Sky (29 May 2009)

Ok, but at this time, you don't even know *what* the injury is, do you?  How can you then say it is/isn't because of military duty?

In April 1992, I was on my Basic Para course and was injured (lower back injury).  I was Class B at the time, just for the duration of that course.  I was looked after by the CF while my Class B contract was still in effect.

In 1994, I was injured again in the lower back while at a judo competition.  Should the CF had looked after me then?  I could argue that "military duties contributed to my injury".  

Its pretty simple.  You either were, or weren't, injured while on military duty.  You are trying to straddle the line that seperates that distinction and lean towards the side in your favour, IMO.

First what you need is an actual diagnosis here, which it doesn't seem you have at this time.  You asked if you can be treated by a CF MO at a CF Medical Clinic and that was answered.  You seem to now want to 'split hairs' and I think you are just wasting your time debating it here.

 :2c:


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## Snakedoc (29 May 2009)

Just another question for the medical folks out there, if a reservist is injured while performing his/her duties and therefore needs to see a military MO, is there ever any possibility of seeing a reservist military MO?  I believe the answer is no as in the past when we've had members injured at my unit, we had to find some way to get them up to the nearest base or ASU (several hours away) during a civillian work day for the member so that they can see the MO even though we have a field ambulance reserve unit in the same city with military MO's.

If the answer is no, I'm curious why this is the case?  What do reservist MO's regularily do on a parade night then?  It would also be even more convenient if the field ambulance could help with recruitment medicals, dive medicals etc. but I do not believe they are involved with this as well..


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## bran (29 May 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ok, but at this time, you don't even know *what* the injury is, do you?  How can you then say it is/isn't because of military duty?
> 
> In April 1992, I was on my Basic Para course and was injured (lower back injury).  I was Class B at the time, just for the duration of that course.  I was looked after by the CF while my Class B contract was still in effect.
> 
> ...



I'm not saying that I was injured during my duties, I'm just saying it may/may not have contributed, however like you've said that's beside the point. I was merely asking if I was able to get medical care from the CF because I had no clue how the system worked, but that has been answered as no it's not possible. My concern was that I thought the CF would take care of its members regardless of their class of service because they would want them healthy. Either way I appreciate the input, I'll just have to take care of it with my civilian doctor.


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## old medic (30 May 2009)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> It would also be even more convenient if the field ambulance could help with recruitment medicals, dive medicals etc. but I do not believe they are involved with this as well..



That already happens. Saw it happen 3 weeks ago.


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## Snakedoc (1 Jun 2009)

old medic said:
			
		

> That already happens. Saw it happen 3 weeks ago.



I guess my unit must have missed the memo on this then.  We had a military nurse visit us a while ago (medical care coordinator for reserve units in the area...forget the proper name for these individuals) and when our CO posed the question I raised earlier about reservist MO's providing care/assessments for our ship's company, his response was not a clear answer but rather that reservist MO's don't really know the military system and therefore can't provide care.

Everyone was a bit confused by this considering how they are 'military MO's.'  Despite my CO proding the nurse a bit further emphasizing the 'military' part, we unfortunately still didn't get a straight answer and thus the requirement for us to continue to pay a minimum of two members a full day's pay (driver and injured member), have the injured member get a day off of their civilian employment, and pay for the gas required for the unit vehicle to drive our members to the nearest Base or ASU whenever we have a member injured on duty in order for them to be assessed.

Not that this is a huge issue but it would be much easier and convenient if we can just go to our local field ambulance for the same assessment/care.


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