# Canadian military books



## CDN1944 (29 Apr 2003)

i love reading and love reading history above all, i was wondering if there where any canadian army books or books about the canadian army on the level with say "band of brothers" or "citizen soldiers" by ambrose. I am also looking for field manuals from the 40‘s, (just really interested in how they trained our soldiers back then). if anyone knows anything then ty in advance!


cheers!


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## Anderson56 (29 Apr 2003)

Well, if you want to look at Ambrose, read the chapter on the Canadians in D-Day - interesting perspective from an American


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## CDN1944 (29 Apr 2003)

yeah i read d-day and band of brothers and im now half-way through citizen soldiers. just im looking for my next target! lol


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## Marti (30 Apr 2003)

there‘s a fairly well-know trilogy by George Blackburn on his experiences during WWII. the three books are called "Where the ****  are the Guns", "The Guns of Normandy" and "The Guns of Victory". i haven‘t had a chance to read them myself, but from what i‘ve heard, they might be close to what you‘re looking for. 

a good Ambrose book is "Pegasus Bridge". it‘s very similar to "Band of Brothers", with a lot of the same anecdotal writing. it‘s about a British unit of gliderborne infantry as they train for D-Day and fight through the Normandy campaign.


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## Fusaki (30 Apr 2003)

There‘s a book called "Parachute Infantry" by David Webster - He‘s the Harvard guy in Band of Brothers. He tells the story of the American 101st in WW2 from his own perspective. Its not Canadian, but a great story nonetheless.


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## Danjanou (30 Apr 2003)

A couple of suggestions that come to mind (after a quick look on my bookshelf):

WWII-

_The Long Road Home_ By Fred Cederberg
(His autobiographical account of his service with the Cape Breton Highanders and the Lanark and Renfrew Scottish (5th Div) In the Italian Campaign

_And No Birds Sang_ Farley Mowats autobiography of his service in the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment also in the Italian campaign

_The Grey Goose of Arnhem_ Leo Heaps account of his role in the battle and the efforts to rescue the stranded survivors of the 1st British Airborne Division afterwards

_The Judas Cloak_ (fictional novel set at Dieppe) by Walter Winward 

_Six War Years_ Barry Broadfoot
Oral history of Canadians in WWII

WWI-

_Vimy_ Pierre Berton‘s account of the battle

_The Bandy Papers_  Donald Jack (humourous series of novels set in WWI, some good bits in them.)

Hope this helps, I‘ll take a second look later for some more.


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## CDN1944 (1 May 2003)

thatnkls alot for the help guys 

<----going to chapters now !


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## Michael Dorosh (1 May 2003)

The Regiment is also by Farley Mowat and is an excellent history.

The best Regimental history ever written is SOUTH ALBERTAS: A CANADIAN REGIMENT AT WAR.  It is Ambrose-like in that it is very readable and talks about an entire battalion‘s experiences (in this case, the South Alberta Regiment, who were an armoured regiment in France and Holland in WW II).


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## Danjanou (1 May 2003)

Thanks Michael, I forgot that one. Funny Mowat plays down his own exploits in the _Regiment_, including accidentally calling in an airstrike on the King during a training exercise in England.

Most regiments have published official histories and while some are rather dry, others can be a good read.


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## CDN1944 (1 May 2003)

awsome, ive also come across many references to the book
 the warriors by gray, was just wondering if any of you have read it?


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## rolandstrong (2 May 2003)

I just finished Granastein‘s "The Canadian Army" (2001). Pretty comprehensive until the 1960‘s (more limited info). Good book to get an overview of canadian army history.


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## Pikache (6 May 2003)

No one said "Peacekeepers: Road to Sarajevo" by MGen Lewis MacKenzie?


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## Michael Dorosh (6 May 2003)

Regarding official regimental histories:

These have evolved enormously.  In the 1950s there was a huge rush to get regimental histories published.  By and large, these volumes suffer from several drawbacks, mostly related to the fact that they were usually written by officers who had served in the regiment in combat.

Why is this a drawback?  Firstly, the books contain a considerable amount of jargon, but moreover, are written as if the reader knows perfectly well how a company would conduct a deliberate assault, say.  They were written by a serving soldier as if only other serving soldiers would ever be interested in them.

Secondly, they were written at a time when other serving officers were still alive.  There is practically no criticism of any kind in the history, no judgements, simple recitation of the facts.

Thirdly, no attempts are made to look at German records or record "the other side".  They are all one-sided stories, usually replete with names and dates that have little meaning, since the books of the time often did not have a single photograph in them, or if they did, they were stock photos usually not even depicting the regiment in question.

In the last 10 or so years, we have seen a renaissance in regimental histories.  Use of photographs to illustrate these volumes has improved due to the lower costs or reproducing same, as well as veterans probably being more lenient with loaning out photos than they were in the 1950s, when they probably just wanted to forget what they went through "over there."  

Authors today tend not to belong to the regiments they are writing about, and are free to discuss all aspects of the regimental history with greater freedom.  Roy Farran, for example, wrote a history of the Calgary Highlanders in the 1950s that dealt in more detail about the mess parties in the 1930s than in the relationship between the COs and the troops.  Farran was a highly decorated British officer in WW II and a respected member of Calgary high society, along with other veterans of the Highlanders whom he was then writing about.  Compare to David Bercuson‘s history of the Calgary Highlanders, published much more recently.  Bercuson is a labour historian and professional scholar, not a soldier, and he was free to discuss the very poor reputation that one of the COs had, and attempt to judge him (or rather, report on how the troops judged him, based on his interviews).  Farran gives no clue whatsoever that one of the COs was not well liked.

The earlier regimental histories are to be taken with a grain of salt then; for someone with limited knowledge of Second World War terminology or practices, they will be a tough read.  By contrast, Donald Graves‘ history of the SAR has a full fledged battle manual in the Appendices, to explain in basic terms how the regiment operated in battle - a real boon to the casual reader.

Unfortunately, regimental histories still suffer from the very real drawback of not having been researched from the German side of things.  This is true of most WW II histories, regardless of nationality.  Denis Whitaker is the only Canadian historian I can think of off the top of my head who went out of his way to consult German sources in his writings.


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## Danjanou (6 May 2003)

Good points Michael.

I think most would agree that books full of "jargen" would not be an issue to those of us on the board, aside from as you point out the fact some terms come and go.

The comments on the lack of critism are also valid. There is something about soldiers that says we cannot air our dirty linen in public so to say. Look at Black Hawk Down written by a journalist, not a soldier. There is no shortage of commentary on the military and command shortcomings in that book.

Excellent point about lacking the German/enemy perspective as well. I wonder if their military/regimental histories are similarily lacking? My own German is a little too rusty these days to find out.

Some military histories though are simply just well written, for example Mowat‘s, because the author is a skilled writer. Writing like soldiering is a skill, and one that must be learned and practiced. Naturally some are better at it than others.

The two are not mutually exclusive, look at the plethora of military books written by ex servicemen, particularily since Vietnam. Some are good, many are atrocious. 

One example would be the books written by two of the survivors of Bravo Two Zero, the SAS patrol in the First Gulf War. I‘ve just reread both books so am in a position to comment.

Both "Andy McNabb" and "Chris Ryan" wrote accounts of their experiences. Both it could be said are more than competant soldiers. That said and done one of the books just from a style point is better than the other.

Both have gone on to careers as writers of military thrillers. However Ryan does not appear to have enjoyed the literay success of McNabb. Having read both men‘s work, my opinon is simply McNabb is a good story teller, a good writer, and Ryan is not.

That said and done, military writing, whether dry technical or more social history such as Pierre Bertons is in of itself an interesting and useful genre.


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## Michael Dorosh (6 May 2003)

Danjanou, I think all your points go to the old adage of not consulting a single source for information; given the wide variety of styles (Berton and Mowat are great examples of a conversational approach to history-telling) one is pretty much obliged to consult multiple sources for the whole story.

Re: your question on German histories; the Soviet archives were as off limits to West German researchers (and, I would presume East German researchers) as they were to those of us further west.  I have the translation of the official history of Panzerkorps Grossdeutschland (all 3 volumes) as well as a history of the Panzer Regiment GD; all four books - written by ex GD-officers - refer in only vague terms to Soviet units, usually only to the formation (Army or Corps, sometimes division, almost never to the regiment or battalion) opposite the GD at any given time.

German histories tend to be long on heroics, short on technical details; even the simple act of trying to piece together what vehicle types the Panzer Regiment GD had is next to impossible given the paltry resources available in English.

While Canadian regimental histories will have lists of Commanding Officers, decorations awarded, fatal casualty lists, usually as appendices, the GD histories don‘t even mention the names of the regimental commanders (except buried in the text, usually attached to a story relating their heroic death.)


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## Danjanou (7 May 2003)

Michael, I get the feeling I would enjoy poking around your bookcases should I ever head out west again.

I‘ve read some translated Soviet histories, and admit they have a tendancy to take revisonist history to the extreme.


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## Evan (7 May 2003)

i recaintly reicived the "history of world war 2" the armed services memorial edition.
its from 1945, and it was written by Francis trevelyan miller,ll.d.,litt.d. who was assisted by a staff of 200 historians. its from the perspective of all the allies. havent got to read it yet,its 967 pages, i decided to leave it for a rainy day.


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## Danjanou (14 May 2003)

Just found another one on my shelf, worth a look at (and one I guess I‘ll have to get around to reviewing here some day).

*Unknown Warriors Canadians in Vietnam *

by Fred Gaffen (Dundurn Press Toronto 1990)

It‘s basically a collection of oral histories of some of the thousands of Canadians who served with the US military in SEA. Some of them give their reasons for serving, some of which are surprising, everything to the chance of US citizenship, to the chance for adventure, through to wanting to stop Communism. What it was like for them there and equally important what it was like when they came home are also covered. 

There are also sections on the background of the war, an examination of other Canadians who‘ve serve in other wars from the US Civil War through to the Mackenzie Papineau Battalion of the Spanish Civil War.

An interesting read.


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## Michael Dorosh (19 May 2003)

If you can find anything under two inches of dust, you‘re welcome to try!


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## Danjanou (20 May 2003)

Only two inches Michael?


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## rolandstrong (20 May 2003)

I am looking for a couple of good paperbacks to take on course. I wont get a lot of time to read, and would like something inspirational. Anyone got some suggestions? Any books that can get you fired up and still fit in an already packed duffel?


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## rolandstrong (20 May 2003)

I am also having a hard time finding Mowat‘s "The Regiment". Any suggestions? Chapters has not been so helpful on this...


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## greeves (20 May 2003)

Another good one to consider (and I think it may be available in soft-cover now) is Pierre Berton‘ "Marching as to War: Canada‘s Turbulent Years, 1899-1953".  This book details all of Canada‘s major wars of the 20th century and through his typical anecdotal style, you really get to know the leaders, as well as the troops involved in those campaigns.
Also, John Keegan‘s "The Face of Battle" is one of the finest books ever written about warfare.  In it he details the physical experience of combat as well as what motivates soldiers in the face of war‘s horrors by examining, in great depth the battles of Agincourt, Waterloo, and the Somme.  Not Canadian, our participation on the Somme notwithstanding, but well worth the cover price.


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## Danjanou (20 May 2003)

Marching As to War is available in paperback, but it‘s one of those larger sized ones, so it may not make the cut in a packed kit bag.

I agree Face of Battle is an excellent read. Now if I could just remember who it was that borrowed my copy so I could ask for it back.

Roland there is (was?) a small book store in the mall in Ormocto with an excellent selection of military books so reading material shouldn‘t be a problem. The last time I was there was for 5 months and I had built up a respectable little library that I had to ship home.

Can anyone in Gagetown or been there recently confirm if this bookstore is still there?


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## rolandstrong (20 May 2003)

Hmm..thats good to know Danjanou. I have read Marching as to War, but haven‘t gotten to the Keegan books yet. I am reading Band of Brothers now, and just finished Granatstein‘s comprehensive book on the Canadian Army. I think I am looking for a Band of Brothers-like book to take with. i am sure I won‘t be seeing the light of day for a few weeks.


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## GGHG_Cadet (20 May 2003)

I just finished reading Bravo Two Zero and Pegasus Bridge both very good books and I recommend them to anyone who hasn‘t read them. I just started to read Peacekeeper: The Road to Sarajevo and Citizen Soldiers they look like good reads. I have also reserved a copy of Unknown Warriors Canadians in Vietnam.


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## Michael Dorosh (20 May 2003)

I‘ll second Face of Battle - perhaps one of the most important books on warfare ever written.


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## rolandstrong (20 May 2003)

I have heard quite a bit on "The Face of Battle". I have also wanted to get into Keegan‘s work...this and the First World War.

Thanks all..I think its my course book. If I get much time to read.


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## Danjanou (21 May 2003)

I actually took Band of Brothers on my honeymoon (yeah she wasn‘t impressed but I had to have something to do while lazing around the pool and, ahem resting up)

Bravo Two Zero and McNabbs other books both autobiographical and the Nick Stone fiction ones are good reads too. I just finished the latest account of that patrol which calls into question everything both McNabb and Ryan stated in their accounts.

Just started rereading an interesting and hard to find book called Fire Force by Chris Cocks. He was a Rhodesian conscript who served in the bish war there in the late 1970‘s. Not overtly well written but very interesting. There‘s even a Canadian connection.


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## greeves (21 May 2003)

> I just finished the latest account of that patrol which calls into question everything both McNabb and Ryan stated in their accounts.


I was at my local Chapters yesterday and saw that book.  Having read both McNabb‘s and Ryan‘s books I‘ll be interested to see what the author has to say.  The author, incidentally, is Michael Asher, who is quite well known in his own right. He and his wife were the first non-Bedouin people to traverse the width of the Sahara by camel and wrote about it in "Impossible Journey: Two Against the Sahara".  If you enjoy adventure/travel non-fiction it‘s an excellent book.  On the military side, Asher‘s first book is called "Shoot to Kill".  I read it a few years ago and it‘s an excellent first effort.  He talks about his experiences in the British Army - from his first day at the Parachute Regiment depot in Aldershot, through to his tours of Northern Ireland with 2 Para, and eventually his time with 23 SAS (Territorial).  His credentials are fairly good - so it makes me wonder where the truth about Bravo Two Zero really lies.
Anyway, speaking of John Keegan, while at Chapters yesterday I bought "Six Armies in Normandy" - and, of course, started reading the Canadian chapter as soon as I got home.  I have a question for everyone out there: in his section on Dieppe, he mentions that the Royal Regiment of Canada were "...one of the three permanent battalions the dominion maintained in peacetime...".  Later he refers to them as the "Royal Canadians".  Is Keegan confusing the Royal Regiment of Canada (who were at Dieppe) with the Royal Canadian Regiment (who were not)?


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## Danjanou (21 May 2003)

Thanks, I‘m at work and couldn‘t recall the authors name. Asher‘s book is well done and does call a lot into question. I‘m now hunting for some of the books he used in his research including the one written by the former SAS RSM, and *Soldier 5* written by another of the Bravo Two Survivors, "Mark" the New Zealander. The British Government tried to have publication of his account blocked so says a  lot there.


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## Danjanou (24 May 2003)

Martin, 

If you‘re having problems locating Unknown Warriors let me know. I‘m presuming by the capbadge avatar that you‘re in the Toronto area, and I‘d have no problems loaning you my copy. I know it‘s a rare book to find. I can‘t even remember where i picked mine up.


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