# Unrest in Haiti, Again



## Old Sweat (7 Jul 2021)

A "gang" murdered the President of Haitis and critically wounded his wife in an attack on their residence last night. As can be seen in this report, reproduced under the Fair Dealings provision of the Copyright Act, the situation is unclear.

PORT-AU-PRINCE, HAITI -- Haitian President Jovenel Moise was assassinated in an attack on his private residence early Wednesday, according to a statement from the country's interim prime minister, who called the killing a "hateful, inhumane and barbaric act."

First Lady Martine Moise was shot in the overnight attack and hospitalized, interim Premier Claude Joseph said.

Even before the assassination, Haiti had grown increasingly unstable and disgruntled under Moise. The president ruled by decree for more than two years after the country failed to hold elections and the opposition demanded he step down in recent months.


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"The country's security situation is under the control of the National Police of Haiti and the Armed Forces of Haiti," Joseph said in a statement from his office. "Democracy and the republic will win."

In the early morning hours of Wednesday, the streets were largely empty in the Caribbean nation's capital of Port-au-Prince, but some people ransacked businesses in one area.

Joseph said police have been deployed to the National Palace and the upscale community of Petionville and will be sent to other areas.

Joseph condemned the assassination as a "hateful, inhumane and barbaric act." In the statement, he said some of the attackers spoke in Spanish but offered no further explanation. He later said in a radio address that they spoke Spanish or English, again offering no details.

The White House described the attack as "horrific" and "tragic" and said it was still gathering information on what happened. U.S. President Joe Biden will be briefed later Wednesday by his national security team, spokesperson Jen Psaki said during an interview on MSNBC.

"The message to the people of Haiti is this is a tragic tragedy," she during a previously scheduled interview on CNN. "It's a horrific crime and we're so sorry for the loss that they are all suffering and going through as many of them are waking up this morning and hearing this news. And we stand ready and stand by them to provide any assistance that's needed."

Haiti's economic, political and social woes have deepened recently, with gang violence spiking heavily in Port-au-Prince, inflation spiraling and food and fuel becoming scarcer at times in a country where 60% of the population makes less than US$2 a day. These troubles come as Haiti still tries to recover from the devastating 2010 earthquake and Hurricane Matthew that struck in 2016.

Opposition leaders accused Moise, who was 53, of seeking to increase his power, including by approving a decree that limited the powers of a court that audits government contracts and another that created an intelligence agency that answers only to the president.

In recent months, opposition leaders demanded the he step down, arguing that his term legally ended in February 2021. Moise and supporters maintained that his term began when he took office in early 2017, following a chaotic election that forced the appointment of a provisional president to serve during a year-long gap.

Haiti was scheduled to hold general elections later this year.


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## medicineman (7 Jul 2021)

Well, this time around, I get to 🍿 and watch it instead of live/smell it.


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## OldSolduer (7 Jul 2021)

Shocking I tell you!!! Shocking!!

(Cue the sarcastic music)


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## NavyShooter (7 Jul 2021)

Again, or still?


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## OldSolduer (7 Jul 2021)

NavyShooter said:


> Again, or still?


Honestly I don’t think Haiti was ever destined for greatness thanks to the Duvaliers and certain elements of the USA. Same crap different year.


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## NavyShooter (7 Jul 2021)

Country gets bailed out.

Country goes to hell.

Country gets bailed out.

Country goes to hell.

I wish it wasn't such a terrible repetitive cycle...the folks that live there have got to be just...well...tired of it all.


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## PuckChaser (7 Jul 2021)

You're missing the occasional devastating hurricane in between one of those country goes to hell.


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## SeaKingTacco (7 Jul 2021)

PuckChaser said:


> You're missing the occasional devastating hurricane in between one of those country goes to hell.


Don’t forget cholera epidemics….


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## daftandbarmy (7 Jul 2021)

They didn't have body guards... in Haiti?

Must be a suicide.


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## Colin Parkinson (8 Jul 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> They didn't have body guards... in Haiti?
> 
> Must be a suicide.


Likely was the bodyguards, having bodyguards that will stay bought or our loyal to you is always an issue in those places.


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## Good2Golf (8 Jul 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Likely was the bodyguards, having bodyguards that will stay bought or our loyal to you is always an issue in those places.


Yeah, ask Indira Ghandi how that worked out…


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## Remius (8 Jul 2021)

Some suspects have been arrested.  One may be an American citizen.









						Two Americans among 15 detained over assassination of Haitian President
					

Two US citizens are among more than a dozen arrested in Haiti in connection with the assassination of President Jovenel Moise, a top government official said Thursday.




					edition.cnn.com
				




Looks like a mercenary group.


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## medicineman (9 Jul 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Yeah, ask Indira Ghandi how that worked out…


She was named as an NHL draft pick for stopping 7 shots in 5 seconds so that's something....


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## dangerboy (9 Jul 2021)

Our former Governor-General,  Michaelle Jean says the investigation into the assassination will require international support because the country's national police service has been infiltrated by criminal organizations https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mi...sassination-president-investigation-1.6094891

I would not be surprised if she is right now talking to the PM about sending Canadian support of some kind (Military, RCMP, Financial...)


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## Old Sweat (9 Jul 2021)

All things considered, i would not be the least bit surprised. Might even be a few votes in it.


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Jul 2021)

Make a commitment to take over the government, military and police force for 40 years, focus on incremental improvements while you educate the next generation into the leaders capable of running the country properly. Start by allowing municipal elections, then provincial and then finally Federal. Be prepared to come down hard, but at the same time build roads, electricity, schools, clinics. Leave the feel good and Kumbya behind. Otherwise stay out and just air drop some occasional aid.


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## daftandbarmy (9 Jul 2021)

Remius said:


> Some suspects have been arrested.  One may be an American citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do they happen to be sporting an appalling range of headdress?


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## Jarnhamar (9 Jul 2021)

We should * _looks at the number of eligible-to-vote Haitian-Canadians in Liberal ridings_ * send in the army!


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## MilEME09 (9 Jul 2021)

Jarnhamar said:


> We should * _looks at the number of eligible-to-vote Haitian-Canadians in Liberal ridings_ * send in the army!


What's that a 20 year class B in Haiti? Sounds great! All those Exercises in west/east isle have prepared us for it.


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## Remius (9 Jul 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Do they happen to be sporting an appalling range of headdress?


Those guys would never have been caught.


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## DeweyDecimal (9 Jul 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Make a commitment to take over the government, military and police force for 40 years, focus on incremental improvements while you educate the next generation into the leaders capable of running the country properly. Start by allowing municipal elections, then provincial and then finally Federal. Be prepared to come down hard, but at the same time build roads, electricity, schools, clinics. Leave the feel good and Kumbya behind. Otherwise stay out and just air drop some occasional aid.



Yeah, let's try that again :

*








						United States occupation of Haiti - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



*


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## YZT580 (9 Jul 2021)

back right off and let the other islands make the decisions.


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## medic5 (10 Jul 2021)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/haiti-assassination-fbi-investigation-1.6096579

Haiti asks U.S. for military aid to stabilize country in shock after assassination​


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Jul 2021)

Well at least Pakistan isn't involved in this one.


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## Good2Golf (10 Jul 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Well at least Pakistan isn't involved in this one.


🤔 
…maybe too soon to call that just yet…


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## SeaKingTacco (10 Jul 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> 🤔
> …maybe too soon to call that just yet…


I would not call that one just yet.

Apropos of nothing…what has China got going on in Haiti right now?


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## Good2Golf (10 Jul 2021)

Shaping operations.


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## medicineman (10 Jul 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> 🤔
> …maybe too soon to call that just yet…


They were helping the HNP learn riot control when I was there


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## SeaKingTacco (10 Jul 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Shaping operations.


So, did the new Prez run afoul of some developers?


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## MilEME09 (10 Jul 2021)

Haiti’s interim leader requests U.S. military support to help stabilize country - National | Globalnews.ca
					

For now, U.S. only plans to send FBI officials to help investigate a crime that has plunged Haiti into a destabilizing battle for power.




					globalnews.ca
				




Well they are now asking for help, 3 div is at high readiness and ready to go I believe


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Jul 2021)

Massive protests in Cuba today as well cops taking potshots at crowds and police getting beaten up


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## MilEME09 (10 Oct 2022)

Thread necro rather then create a new thread. Gangs in Haiti have virtually taken control of critical infrastructure to the point to Haitian ambassador to the US is requesting a US/canada security force be deployed to the country to battle the gangs and regain control










						UN chief urges nations to consider deploying forces to help Haiti | CNN
					

United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has urged the international community to consider deploying forces to Haiti to address growing humanitarian and security crises in the country.




					www.cnn.com
				





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579610791598526464


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## Kat Stevens (10 Oct 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> Thread necro rather then create a new thread. Gangs in Haiti have virtually taken control of critical infrastructure to the point to Haitian ambassador to the US is requesting a US/canada security force be deployed to the country to battle the gangs and regain control
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That poor unfortunate island would be much better off if The DR just rolled in and annexed it, put a few voodoo priests heads on spikes and sorted that shit out.


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## KevinB (11 Oct 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> Thread necro rather then create a new thread. Gangs in Haiti have virtually taken control of critical infrastructure to the point to Haitian ambassador to the US is requesting a US/canada security force be deployed to the country to battle the gangs and regain control
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ugh Somalia flashbacks.


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## Furniture (11 Oct 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> Thread necro rather then create a new thread. Gangs in Haiti have virtually taken control of critical infrastructure to the point to Haitian ambassador to the US is requesting a US/canada security force be deployed to the country to battle the gangs and regain control
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure that would go over well... A mostly white CAF shooting poor Haitians. I can't foresee that going horribly wrong in any entirely predictable way.


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## KevinB (12 Oct 2022)

Furniture said:


> I'm sure that would go over well... A mostly white CAF shooting poor Haitians. I can't foresee that going horribly wrong in any entirely predictable way.


It’s a loose / loose situation.  
   You act and it’s exactly what you say above.  
    You don’t act, and your maligned for every necklacing and machete job done in country.


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## lenaitch (12 Oct 2022)

How about the UN funding some Caribbean, Central American of African Nations to go in.  They typically like the money.


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## MilEME09 (12 Oct 2022)

lenaitch said:


> How about the UN funding some Caribbean, Central American of African Nations to go in.  They typically like the money.


Poor nations use UN peacekeeping as a way to earn money, the result is poorly trained peacekeepers that show a lack of morals leading to all the issues of rape, etc in Africa.


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## CBH99 (12 Oct 2022)

Bah, we’ll be fine!!  What could possibly go wrong?

Just deploy a small contingent to be embedded with a lead force to “advise & assist them in their efforts to restore law & order, and critical food aid, to the people of Haiti.”

And use all the buzzwords & buzzphrases  like ‘establishing safe areas’, delivering aid, etc.  Dont use ugly words like ‘kill’ or ‘destroy’ but rather state we are ‘creating the conditions for a more peaceful tomorrow’ and ‘neutralizing threats to innocent civilians’.  

And highlight  how awesome we are for having our French units, a unique capability we offer to the world.  Not to mention Canada is stepping up to that ‘up to 200 person QRF to the UN’ we offered up, etc

Only commit to a 3 month initial rotation during the ‘smash bad guys phase.’  Who doesn’t enjoy making the world a better place by cleaning it up from time to time?

Then offer up a platoon or 2 worth of troops on a continued rotation so people getting in (especially reservists) have an actual deployment they can do if they want.


Is this a terrible idea?  Sure is!

But stepping up for the UN, battling street gangs so civilians can get the aid they need, a focus on French Canadians, increased retainment due to folks having a deployment they can work towards, and an organization that reimburses us most of the money we’d spend anyway?  

Still a terrible idea, but it checks sooooo many boxes.  Let’s go for it anyway…



(Is CBH99 being sarcastic or not?) 🤨😈


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## lenaitch (12 Oct 2022)

CBH99 said:


> Bah, we’ll be fine!!  What could possibly go wrong?
> 
> Just deploy a small contingent to be embedded with a lead force to “advise & assist them in their efforts to restore law & order, and critical food aid, to the people of Haiti.”
> 
> ...


Ah yes, but do they get bullets?


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## CBH99 (12 Oct 2022)

lenaitch said:


> Ah yes, but do they get bullets?


Let’s not get too far into the weeds here…


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## Retired AF Guy (12 Oct 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> Thread necro rather then create a new thread. Gangs in Haiti have virtually taken control of critical infrastructure to the point to Haitian ambassador to the US is requesting a US/canada security force be deployed to the country to battle the gangs and regain control


I can see that as something our present leaders might get behind.


CBH99 said:


> Bah, we’ll be fine!!  What could possibly go wrong?
> 
> Just deploy a small contingent to be embedded with a lead force to “advise & assist them in their efforts to restore law & order, and critical food aid, to the people of Haiti.”
> 
> ...


Better hope someone from GAC not reading this thread; might give them ideas.


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Oct 2022)

lenaitch said:


> Ah yes, but do they get bullets?


What? My god no of course.....


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## Humphrey Bogart (12 Oct 2022)

lenaitch said:


> How about the UN funding some Caribbean, Central American of African Nations to go in.  They typically like the money.


Here is the thing, none of the CARICOM countries want anything to do with Haiti because:

A.  "They are a bunch of Thieves" as some of them have mentioned to me.

B.  "We have our own problems to deal with and don't need to be involved in Haiti's"

C.  "The French, Americans, etc should deal with it because they are the ones that messed it up in the first place"


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## Quirky (12 Oct 2022)

I propose a permanent CAF peacemaking/keeping/karening deployment to the island, a contingent from the CA, RCN and RCAF. We can operate out of Puerto Plata on the Dominican side.....


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## dapaterson (12 Oct 2022)

Proposing it be based out of a resort is a clear sign that it wouldn't be joint, but rather RCAF.


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## OldSolduer (12 Oct 2022)

lenaitch said:


> Ah yes, but do they get bullets?


Actually yes. 10 at the most for "self defence". In my world that translates to "you better have a sucking chest wound before you call for permission to shoot back"


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## KevinB (12 Oct 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> Actually yes. 10 at the most for "self defence". In my world that translates to "you better have a sucking chest wound before you call for permission to shoot back"


Carried in the left breast pocket to ensure you can’t get to it in a hurry


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## OldSolduer (12 Oct 2022)

KevinB said:


> Carried in the left breast pocket to ensure you can’t get to it in a hurry


Of course how could I forget.


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## Kat Stevens (12 Oct 2022)

KevinB said:


> Carried in the left breast pocket to ensure you can’t get to it in a hurry


And closed off with red gun tape.


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## CBH99 (12 Oct 2022)

KevinB said:


> Carried in the left breast pocket to ensure you can’t get to it in a hurry


Who needs plates when you can just have enemy rounds impact your own mags??

#budgetitemeliminated




OldSolduer said:


> Actually yes. 10 at the most for "self defence". In my world that translates to "you better have a sucking chest wound before you call for permission to shoot back"


How are we supposed to bang bang all the gangbangers with only 10 rounds each?  Are you _sure_ we can’t shoot first?

Statistics show that 10/10 gunfights are won by the people who aren’t shot… 

(Especially if we’re using mags as heart shields)

#winning


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## AmmoTech90 (13 Oct 2022)

lenaitch said:


> Ah yes, but do they get bullets?


Haiti 2004 we had Carl G, 25mm HEI, Frang (and fin for some reason), along with 150 to 300 rounds personal issue.  Didn't seem to help.


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## CBH99 (13 Oct 2022)

AmmoTech90 said:


> Haiti 2004 we had Carl G, 25mm HEI, Frang (and fin for some reason), along with 150 to 300 rounds personal issue.  Didn't seem to help.


Didn't seem to help, how?


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## OldSolduer (13 Oct 2022)

CBH99 said:


> Didn't seem to help, how?


If you don't change the leadership of the nation - and they all are a corrupt lot - then change in the population isn't going to happen either.

IF you are operating under a UN ROE it can be difficult to respond to situations.


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## KevinB (13 Oct 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> If you don't change the leadership of the nation - and they all are a corrupt lot - then change in the population isn't going to happen either.
> 
> IF you are operating under a UN ROE it can be difficult to respond to situations.


In fairness to the UN, all missions specifically allow for self defense.   Some made the mistake of not including a more LEO oriented Defence of Others aspect to the Deadly Force aspect of the ROE.

I’d argue that without Defense of Others - it’s simply an observer job that doesn’t accomplish much in those situations.

From Cyprus’s idiotic ROE and Weapons State - the CAF did the weapon state all by itself, and then the CAF muddled exactly what Self Defense was in terms of ROE for FYR and created its own nightmare.


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## AmmoTech90 (13 Oct 2022)

CBH99 said:


> Didn't seem to help, how?


More ammo didn't solve the problem.


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## Fishbone Jones (13 Oct 2022)

I'm surprised Hillary isn't  jumping in there. With all the grandiose help they were the last time, the Clinton Foundation should be a shoe in.









						HILLARY CLINTON’S Brother Found Dead: How The Former Repo Man, and Prison Guard Ended Up Sitting On The Board Of A Highly Profitable Gold Mine In Haiti
					

Hillary Clinton tweeted today, about the death of her youngest brother, Tony Rodham. No details were given about the reason […]




					100percentfedup.com


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## dangerboy (13 Oct 2022)

Or heard anything from Former governor general Michaëlle Jean about us helping out.


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## CBH99 (14 Oct 2022)

AmmoTech90 said:


> More ammo didn't solve the problem.


But the ‘problem’ was not solved because said troops weren’t allowed to use said ammo…not because they didn’t carry enough of it.  

All kidding aside, I know they were deployed as blue helmets & the mission was security assistance/humanitarian in nature.  

And I’m not actually proposing we go into Haiti.


Do we answer Haiti’s call for help…yet again?  

If we do, what does success look like?  Who would be our partner forces in theatre?  What is the objective, and do the ROE’s allow for that objective to be reasonably accomplished?

Since it’s the UN banner this is currently being discussed under, I’d lean towards a hell no.  It would be messy either way, but the UN would make it even moreso.


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## Ostrozac (14 Oct 2022)

CBH99 said:


> All kidding aside, I know they were deployed as blue helmets & the mission was security assistance/humanitarian in nature.


MIF-H (Op HALO, Haiti, 2004) was not a blue helmet mission. The follow on, Brazilian-led, force was UN, but the US/French/Chilean/Canadian intervention was not a UN mission. In many ways, it felt like a NEO that sort of decided to hang around after the evac was done. Somewhere between trying to make ourselves useful and mission creep.


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## Weinie (14 Oct 2022)

Ostrozac said:


> MIF-H (Op HALO, Haiti, 2004) was not a blue helmet mission. The follow on, Brazilian-led, force was UN, but the US/French/Chilean/Canadian intervention was not a UN mission. In many ways, it felt like a NEO that sort of decided to hang around after the evac was done. Somewhere between trying to make ourselves useful and mission creep.


Was there in 2004 twice. Went patrolling in Cite Soleil both times, and you could feel/see the gang members sizing you up, wondering whether it was worth their time/effort to take the Canadians on.


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## OldSolduer (14 Oct 2022)

Weinie said:


> Was there in 2004 twice. Went patrolling in Cite Soleil both times, and you could feel/see the gang members sizing you up, wondering whether it was worth their time/effort to take the Canadians on.


I reckon that would depend on the ROE, but I think they'd probably not have a good time.


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## Weinie (14 Oct 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> I reckon that would depend on the ROE, but I think they'd probably not have a good time.


Yeah, I was with a section of soldiers, but it was still sketchy.


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## CBH99 (14 Oct 2022)

Ostrozac said:


> MIF-H (Op HALO, Haiti, 2004) was not a blue helmet mission. The follow on, Brazilian-led, force was UN, but the US/French/Chilean/Canadian intervention was not a UN mission. In many ways, it felt like a NEO that sort of0 decided to hang around after the evac was done. Somewhere between trying to make ourselves useful and mission creep.


I stand corrected.  I thought I  distinctly remembered them trialing new vests while down there, while at the same time remembering blue helmets.

Darn CERN & their mashing of universes...


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## CBH99 (14 Oct 2022)

Weinie said:


> Was there in 2004 twice. Went patrolling in Cite Soleil both times, and you could feel/see the gang members sizing you up, wondering whether it was worth their time/effort to take the Canadians on.


Maybe this is why we _should_ get involved, then?

If the gangs down there are robust enough & brazen enough to size up military forces on patrol, I imagine the locals must be feeling pretty trapped.  Not to mention any police or security forces still wanting to believe in & live in a better community. 



No gangs = better security situation.  
Requirement = all that ammo that didn't get used last time...


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## KevinB (14 Oct 2022)

CBH99 said:


> Maybe this is why we _should_ get involved, then?
> 
> If the gangs down there are robust enough & brazen enough to size up military forces on patrol, I imagine the locals must be feeling pretty trapped.  Not to mention any police or security forces still wanting to believe in & live in a better community.
> 
> ...


Again please see my point about Somalia…


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## OldSolduer (14 Oct 2022)

KevinB said:


> Again please see my point about Somalia…


I do not recall that particular time in history fondly. Although it was 30 years ago the effects that mission had on our CAF of today are still being felt.


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## CBH99 (14 Oct 2022)

KevinB said:


> Again please see my point about Somalia…


Oh it's been seen, and I totally agree!


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## Remius (15 Oct 2022)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/armoured-vehicles-canada-haiti-gangs-1.6618016
		


Hmmmmm…..


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## Colin Parkinson (15 Oct 2022)

Two Battalions of Gurkha's might help.


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## KevinB (15 Oct 2022)

Remius said:


> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/armoured-vehicles-canada-haiti-gangs-1.6618016
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm…..


Armored Vehicle is fairly nebulous. Could be anything from a LAV to a uparmor SOF Hummer.


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## Humphrey Bogart (15 Oct 2022)

KevinB said:


> Armored Vehicle is fairly nebulous. Could be anything from a LAV to a uparmor SOF Hummer.


They are vehicles bought by the Government for the Haitian National Police.









						Des blindés commandés au Canada pour la PNH arrivent ce 15 octobre
					

Des véhicules blindés, commandés auprès d’une entreprise canadienne par le gouvernement haïtien pour un peu plus de 10 millions de dollars américains, « devraient commencer à arriver » samedi 15 octobre, a confié au Nouvelliste une source bien informée, vendredi 14 octobre 2022.  « Je ne peux...




					lenouvelliste.com


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## dapaterson (15 Oct 2022)

First image of a vehicle being delivered by C-17.  The caption, however...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581363684789493761


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## FJAG (16 Oct 2022)

dapaterson said:


> First image of a vehicle being delivered by C-17.  The caption, however...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581363684789493761


The comments to that tweet are disturbing. It seems we're being painted as racist colonizing invaders of Haiti. I didn't realize that gangs of looters and rapists and murderers had that active a social media IO program.


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## dapaterson (16 Oct 2022)

To be fair, given the history of western intervention in Haiti, I'd be extremely suspicious by default too.


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## CBH99 (16 Oct 2022)

Is there a way we can clearly communicate the message “We don’t want to annex this shithole country” so it’s understood in ALL languages?


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## Halifax Tar (16 Oct 2022)

Why even get involved ?  

Let the Bermuda Regiment handle this.


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## Humphrey Bogart (16 Oct 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Why even get involved ?
> 
> Let the Bermuda Regiment handle this.


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## CBH99 (16 Oct 2022)

Considering how tight lipped CANSOFCOM is about _ALL_ of their missions, I’m going to assume that the Twitterverse is getting triggered over nothing.  

They are right.  No domestic media reporting on it…

But that doesn’t mean we’re secretly invading a shithole, poor country that would literally give us nothing but problems and absolutely zero reward.  It means we have a plane that landed at the airport, and is delivering armoured vehicles most likely for embassy use.  

Aka there isn’t any domestic media on this because it isn’t news.  It’s a plane delivering an armoured humvee type vehicle, in a country where embassy staff _do_ require additional protection.  

🤦🏼‍♂️


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