# New Conservatives



## CDNBlackhawk (22 Feb 2004)

Currently watching the Debates on Channel 18 of the three Conservative Leader Hopefuls.
Have any of you been following this, I personaly Like Steven Harper and dont mind Belinda. 

I Hope the bloody Liberals loose the next election, 40 years of bullshit and neglect to our forces. We need change.


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## Infanteer (23 Feb 2004)

I caught a bit of it...I think they are all idiots.

Belinda seems to be a bimbo with poorly rehersed speaking abilities while Harper is an arrogant prick due to the fact that he is the only one with a seat.  The other guy was such a non-factor geek that I forgot about him.

Lewis Mackenzie for PM....


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## CDNBlackhawk (23 Feb 2004)

Gotta admit though the New conservatives are a much better choice then the bloody Liberals. I am Defiantly voteing Conservatives next election, hopefully the majority of others will too, we need a change in government and the conservatives right now are really the only ones who seem willing to rebuild our Military back up to Nato Standards. 

Liberals deep down dont think we need a Military.
Conservatives at least understand we should be at nato standars at a minimum.

Hopefully Harper gets elected, but i think i would be happy with Belinda( I think anyways)


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## Infanteer (23 Feb 2004)

> we need a change in government and the conservatives right now are really the only ones who seem willing to rebuild our Military back up to Nato Standards


Right...just like they did in the 80‘s, eh?  Perhaps you should actually read that Granatstein book you were yapping about before.  What exactly are "NATO standards" anyways?



> Hopefully Harper gets elected, but i think i would be happy with Belinda( I think anyways)


You sound like an educated voter....


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## Pikache (24 Feb 2004)

Heh. I‘d vote Mackenzie for PM.
Except all the lefties would rather vote commie than a retired general, so Mackenzie has snowball‘s chance in ****.

Even with the merger, the problem with the Conservatives is that they have nobody with charisma. (Or talk funny so that no one can understand you but vote for you anyways)

Harper is tainted with CA and looks and sounds like a weasel.

Madame Belinda is too inexperienced and not known enough to get votes.

The other leading candidate, I don‘t even know what his name is. That‘s how relevant that guy is.

If anyone has a clue to get Ontario votes away from the Libs, I‘m listening, because even with the scandal right now, looks like Libs will win the next election anyways.


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## nULL (24 Feb 2004)

NDP! NDP!

Belinda is a business mogul, yes, but she inherited her auto parts company (and fortune) from her father. Tony Clement is necessary to flesh out the leadership bid (who likes a 2 horse race?) and is the guy who everyone will forget about as he realizes he‘s not going to win. If Steven Harper wins the leadership bid, he‘s going to taint the new Conservatives name with filth, make the public think it‘s the CA resurrected with all their homophobic anti-nationalistic rubbish.

Face it, with any luck the Libs will win the next election. Even as we speak, the Liberals‘ numbers are stabilizing. Combined with Paul Martin‘s image as being right-of-centre, i predict the next election will see the NDP getting a fair share of votes. 

If Steven Harper wins the bid, you can forget about making significant inroads into Quebec too. Any decisions that *** would make if he got into federal politics would clash with the current Liberals who make up the Quebec government. They in turn would seek to defy the conservative government‘s most likely _asinine_ federal policies by getting the people of Quebec to view the federal government as an "enemy" of quebec. 

At that point you create fertile ground for the sovereigntist movement to regain ground....   

And what‘s with playing to the military? Politicians should come to these boards; were i a candidate (for the NDP!!!) i‘d make grand promises to the military people, grand promises to students, and then once i got in backtrack on them all just like every other politician ever has.

The point of government is NOT to give free education, NOR is it to placate to make the armed forces happy. Since when have you been able to balance both?

Just a question, why would you vote for the conservatives? My theory has always been that Canadians don‘t mind paying taxes, as long as they see them being put to good use and not being wasted; heck, i lose tons off my paycheques, but i don‘t mind at all...especially when it comes time to having that ingrown toenail removed....

Is the whole reason you would vote for a conservative government because of what they say they will do for the military? Isn‘t that just a cop out easy way to get +60,000 votes?

Just wondering, i wouldn‘t mind writing my term paper on something like this my poli sci class. why vote for conservatives?


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## Infanteer (24 Feb 2004)

> If Steven Harper wins the leadership bid, he‘s going to taint the new Conservatives name with filth, make the public think it‘s the CA resurrected with all their homophobic anti-nationalistic rubbish.


Considering that the CA was the offical opposition while the NDP barely made official party status, maybe it is infact your party that happens to be full of idealistic, pinko, lets-all-hold-hands-in-a-queer-socialist-heaven rubbish.



> i predict the next election will see the NDP getting a fair share of votes


Wanna make a bet?



> And what‘s with playing to the military? Politicians should come to these boards; were i a candidate (for the NDP!!!) i‘d make grand promises to the military people, grand promises to students, and then once i got in backtrack on them all just like every other politician ever has.


I agree with you on that one....



> Just a question, why would you vote for the conservatives? My theory has always been that Canadians don‘t mind paying taxes, as long as they see them being put to good use and not being wasted; heck, i lose tons off my paycheques, but i don‘t mind at all...especially when it comes time to having that ingrown toenail removed....


Well, with fine cast of circus-freaks the NDP consistanly puts forward, I would vote for the Bloc before I would vote for the NDP.  Hmmm...who is it this week, Layton marching with the potheads or protesting a visiting head of state like some protestor-bum, McDumbaugh demanding we pull out of Afghanistan, or Sven (unfortunately) not getting run over by a Merkava.



> Just wondering, i wouldn‘t mind writing my term paper on something like this my poli sci class. why vote for conservatives?


Well, for me the dometic situation in Canada has been pretty stable compared to 10 years ago (sovereignty, constitutional reform, depression, yadayadayada).  I see the biggest issue right now being our foreign and defence policy, which Cretin managed to bungle up in a collasal manner.

I don‘t really mind Paul Martin, mostly due to the fact that he was Cretin‘s biggest rival in Bytown.  However, I feel he carries too much baggage with the Liberal Party such as gun control, Human Resources scandel, multiple foreign policy gaffes.  The newest scandel was just a cherry on the top.

That would probably be my overall reason for voting conservative, as they represent the best (realistic) alternative to another Liberal mandate.

However, judging from what I‘ve seen so far, I might fall back on my "Heinlien-istic" sense and sit this one out.


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## nULL (24 Feb 2004)

the NDP‘s ratings were up, though agreed, they‘ll never be a divisive force in Canadian politics. though this statement...

idealistic, pinko, lets-all-hold-hands-in-a-queer-socialist-heaven rubbish.

...is cr@p! well kinda anyways. the NDP are the only party that seems ready to fight FOR canada. when the americans were placing huge tariffs on softwood lumber, the NDP were screaming to place tariffs on Canadian hydro going south of the border. The conservatives may arguably opt to protect Canadian interests abroad, but don‘t seem to want to protect jobs already here...just look at how many ghost towns have spring up in the BC interior.

besides, parties should not be defined by their leaders...they should be defined by their set policies. ok, yes, the NDP have had some bad leaders. (Though, layton marching with potheads COULD be a way to take votes away from the green party.) 

Though, abstaining from voting does sound good.


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## Infanteer (24 Feb 2004)

Well, like I said before, look at the seats the CA held...lets you know that a large portion of Canadians see "homophobic anti-nationalistic rubbish" as crap as well.



> when the americans were placing huge tariffs on softwood lumber, the NDP were screaming to place tariffs on Canadian hydro going south of the border.


And start a trade war with the US?  Maybe you should look into a little characteristic of our trade relationship with the US known as asymmetric vulnerablility.



> The conservatives may arguably opt to protect Canadian interests abroad, but don‘t seem to want to protect jobs already here...just look at how many ghost towns have spring up in the BC interior.


Name one.  I‘ve lived in the interior for most of my life, and the "ghost town" I‘m from just got a new mill.


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## CDNBlackhawk (24 Feb 2004)

I would never vote NDP in my life,
I use to vote Liberal untill i really started following politics and realized that the Liberals are good for nothing IMO... Sure all politicians are liars and cheats but the chretian/martin government hasnt done a singal thing in the last 10 years other then cut cut cut on everything, and then go buy cabnit members their own jets, cut more from defense budget bringing our GDP spending to an all time low of 1.1%, oh ya lets not forget the recent sponsership scandal, Decriminalizing Marijuana, and the list goes on and on.

Sure Conservatives have done some bad **** in the past, But nothing close in my Opinion like the Liberals have done. The conservatives want to get rid of the useless 2 Billion dollar gun registry and actually care about national defense. They want to Pour money back into the Military and bring us up to nato standars of approximatly 2.0% of GDP spent on Military, this is at a minimum. They want impove our economy by improving our trade relation ship with the USA.

I mean you can either be liberal or conservative.. thats your choice, But seriously think about what the Liberals have or havent done! and then think about what the Conservatives say their goona do.

With all the **** liberals have pulled, i am willing to take that chance.


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## venero (24 Feb 2004)

I defenatly know who Im voteing for next election.
Conservatives. 

This Country has been molested by liberals for way too long. It‘s time for a change.


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## nULL (24 Feb 2004)

[No message]


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## nULL (24 Feb 2004)

Infanteer, do you know where tumbler ridge is? That town really _was_ in dire straits, until those 2 boys found those dinosaur fossiles...

  http://www.cariboo.bc.ca/news/past03Apr7/     

or to be more specific to your challenge to find one, i can name four.

  http://www.cariboo.bc.ca/news/past03Apr7/stories03Apr7/ghostD.html    

Who said placing tariffs on hydro would initiate a trade war? that‘s kind of an extreme example isn‘t it? if anything it would put something on the bargaining table a little more promising than "don‘t make more money off us pretty please"


And while you‘re bashing the gun registry, you may want to look at this article:

 http://www.ccjc.ca/legislation/gun.cfm 

it‘s actually pretty well written, and raises some  good points about the registry.

i suppose my point is, political leaders will lie. i‘m sure the convervatives support the military, as they know making grand promises will get them a s**tload of votes from wishful saps. i mean, remember their white paper? do you really see aircraft carriers on the horizon? strategic airlifts?

you can‘t trust political leaders and what they say; i believe you have to go with what the _party‘s history_ has been. when it comes to the conservatives, that would mean my life getting alot more expensive, and my country getting just that much closer to losing it‘s already flagging national identity...some things you just shouldn‘t put a dollar sign on.


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## CDNBlackhawk (24 Feb 2004)

If we always went by track record, the Liberals would never get voted in.

The gun registry was supposed to be around 2 or 300 million i think and it has costed the taxe payers 2 Billion dollars and counting.

It hasnt lowered any gun related inncodents, why because the ones commiting the crimes with guns dont have registerd guns.... its a useless program, Yes it sounds good and maybe could have been good, but it hasnt proven anything.

Of course all politiancians lie, thats  part of their job. I know the conservatives wont lower taxes even though they say they will. I dont mind paying taxes at all, Canada needs taxes!!! plain and simple.

Canada needs a defense budget thats good and at least the NDP and the Conservatives are saying they will give us that.

The Liberal government says they dont believe in defense basicly because they think everyone likes us and we are not likely to ever be attacked.
what a crack of ****... any attack on North america is attack on us.... How soon do they forget Sept 11th


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## Ex-Dragoon (25 Feb 2004)

CdnBlackhawk I think your last sentence is totally out to lunch "How soon do they forget Sept 11". If it was forgotten about do you actually think we would have most of the Vandoos in Kabul or HMCS Toronto in the Gulf on Op ALtair? They do jack for the military granted but the CF has been an actice participant in the War on Terror.


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## bubba (25 Feb 2004)

bubbas rant on politics;strait from the hip by a man who travels across this country .no politcal party gives a rats *** about the forces,there lookin for votes.politicians dont represent the comman man,they work for the banks and corperations that run this country.stephan harper and the alliance are keeping there anti east coast rethoric pretty quit for now.alot of us down here think if they come to power the east coast is ****ed.creeps and bums is what were called in alberta,we call them prairie nazis.they forget it was federal money that helped start the boom and the last time i checked a citicen is aloud to travel and work any were in canada well eccept quebec but they can take jobs in ontario.me id like to see cape breton become a province,halifax got us starved to death.id like to see the army uped to 100,000,got to get rid of the peacekeeper handle,were soldiers first...gun registry made sombody rich,didnt really stop gun crimes.paul martin is a buisness man,when they closed the mines here they started buying coal off shore.pauls ships bring the coal here,butt they dont carry canadian registration.they get around canadian shipping standards that way and dont hire canadian workers.there really aint much to pick from,as far as politcians go.probally why alot of people,  just aint vottin...jesus i cant go politicans,lawyers and the politically correct..hope i pissed somebody off....


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## CDNBlackhawk (25 Feb 2004)

your right it was out to lunch a bit, i was on a role time and didnt think about it ....lol


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## kiltedtradesman (25 Feb 2004)

It‘s time for a change in government.  The liberals are way too comfortable where they are and I don‘t the opposition was really making a difference.  Until the recent scandal of course.  Time for not only a new PM, but a new way of thinking.  Perhaps we need to start tightening our borders and only let in people that will not suck on our social benefits like a mama's booby.  Refuges a different cause.  

That‘s one on my main complaints right now, other than gun registry, sponsorship programs, under funded CF, Western alienation, native rights, only 2 official languages (we only need 2), decriminalizing pot (bad idea), crappy trade agreements (is NAFTA really working) etc.  did I mention underfunded


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## Gibson (26 Feb 2004)

There may be debate over whether or not gun control is working, but unless it personally bails me out of a jam and comes with bloody cupholders there‘s no way you can convince me it was worth 2 BILLION dollars!  Imagine that kind of money going into defence spending!

I don‘t know if Steven Harper is the answer, but I know the Liberals definately are not if they continue sitting idley by and throwing money at their business buddies.


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## koalorka (26 Feb 2004)

Liberals, conservatives - what‘s the difference?
It‘s like choosing between indigo and turquiose (did I spell that correctly?).


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## CDNBlackhawk (26 Feb 2004)

Yes they are all Politicians, but their is a huge difference between the two of them.


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## bubba (27 Feb 2004)

and the huge differance is WHAT......THERE MAMAS


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## K. Ash (27 Feb 2004)

Personally I‘d like to see Paul Martin do something for getting the military to where it should be. Come election time I cannot see myself voting for the Conservatives. Just too much like that group of people that starts with "N" .


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## CDNBlackhawk (27 Feb 2004)

That would be great if Paul Martin did that, and i guess he has in a verl small small way. but still isnt enough. In  My Opinion I really feel that the conservatives are the only ones who will actually take a correct stand on the CF‘s and do what has to get done to be an effected allie, be able to fulfill comitments and bring our personal and equipment back up to Par.


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## Infanteer (27 Feb 2004)

> Come election time I cannot see myself voting for the Conservatives. Just too much like that group of people that starts with "N" .


Wow, you are an idiot.

That remark shows that you have no comprehension of:

A) Canadian Politics
B) 20th Century German History

Find me a group of Conservative Party Members in uniforms roaming the streets and beating communists...until then, try and keep your comments on the plane of reality.


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## K. Ash (28 Feb 2004)

Ok, backup it seems I may have stepped on some toes already. First off that wasn‘t my intention. Secondly I didn‘t exactly mean it literally I know they don‘t have a great resemblance to Nazis. What I meant was I  consider myself a little more left than right. And from Preston Manning and the ol Reform to Stephen Harper and the CA and now the Conservatives is just too far on the other side of the fence for my personal political flavour.


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## Marauder (29 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by nULL:
> Just a question, why would you vote for the conservatives? My theory has always been that *Canadians don‘t mind paying taxes, as long as they see them being put to good use and not being wasted*; heck, i lose tons off my paycheques, but i don‘t mind at all...especially when it comes time to having that ingrown toenail removed...


Either you haven‘t been paying attention to the news the last 10 years, or you are willing to act blind towards the transgressions of those of your own political bent. The Liberals have been robbing taxpayers blind since the day they took the Hill in their first term. And just think, Grand Mere and Groupe Action are just the ones that are so blatant that the Liberal‘s media pals couldn‘t simply ignore and have the story buried. Just think how much graft has been buried in Quebec alone that no one knows about over the last decade. The Liberals may be morally bankrupt, but none of them ever seem to have to worry about being financially bankrupt. If you can‘t plainly see that the Liberal party has been pissing your money away into their own coffers, then you desereve to remain ignorant, blind, and insolvent.



> Originally posted by nULL:
> Is the whole reason you would vote for a conservative government because of what they say they will do for the military? Isn‘t that just a cop out easy way to get +60,000 votes?


But it‘s OK for the Liberals to spend how many millions and pander to the professional welfare castes created by Liberals past to secure urban votes, and make a mockery of immigration laws to make sure "new Canadians" vote for the "right" party. Couldn‘t you just gag on the hippocracy?


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## patt (29 Feb 2004)

the only reason liberals are getting votes now cuz they want to legalize marijuana so there getting cheap votes outta that


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## Pikache (2 Mar 2004)

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040302.wstron0302/BNStory/National/ 

Stronach proposes $1-billion boost to defence


By ALLISON DUNFIELD
Globe and Mail Update with Canadian Press 

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Conservative Party of Canada leadership candidate Belinda Stronach vowed to boost military spending by $1-billion each year over the next decade until it reaches 2 per cent of Canada‘s gross domestic product.

"The Canadian military has been plagued by years of under-funding and spending cuts," she said in a statement Tuesday.

"While Paul Martin was finance minister, military spending was cut from $12-billion in 1993-94 to $9.3-billion in 1998-99, a decrease of over 20 per cent."

In last year‘s budget, Ottawa raised defence funding to $13-billion a year.

Ms. Stronach said she would find the extra money through the federal government‘s existing surplus and by reducing the costs of government through unspecified cuts.

The Conservative candidate was in Halifax Tuesday promoting her leadership campaign. 

She said that Canada has lost its place in the world. The country no longer has the muscle to live up to its international obligations, she said.

She also said she wants to repair what she sees as Canada‘s damaged relationship with the United States.

"Canada‘s economic livelihood depends on an open and secure Canada-United States border," she said.

Ms. Stronach said two million Canadian jobs rely on the free flow of goods across the Canada-U.S. border.

"I think we need to look at strengthening our relationship with the United States which has deteriorated over the years. It is our great neighbour to the south," Ms. Stronach said in a later interview with CBC Newsworld.

She also called for a review into Canada‘s foreign policy if she is elected the next prime minister.

"We haven‘t had a foreign affairs review in Parliament for over 10 years and I think it‘s time we did that. The world is changing so rapidly and Canadians should have greater input into what our foreign affairs policy should be," Ms. Stronach told Newsworld on Tuesday.

Ms. Stronach along with the other two Conservative leadership candidates, Tony Clement and Stephen Harper, have less than a month to go until the leadership vote, on March 20.

All three camps are trying to secure their votes in the race.

Since the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives merged to create the Conservative Party of Canada, 110,000 new memberships have been sold.

Conservative sources also believe that Mr. Harper has the core support of the original membership of the party â â€ about 90,000 of 142,000. Ms. Stronach would have to have signed up at least 50,000 to at least 100,000 to tip the balance in her favour.

Over the weekend, her camp dropped off about 34,000 new memberships but her supporters deny they are in trouble.

Mr. Clement, meanwhile, has said he believes he has sold at least 20,000 memberships and another 30,000 through nomination meetings.

***
Well, isn‘t this interesting.


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## xFusilier (2 Mar 2004)

RHF, the above post is only interesting in the way the things you couldn‘t have in the Sears Christmas Wish Book were  interesting.  The cold hard reality of politics in Canada is guns wins over butter every time.  What ever number of votes you gain by dropping a billion into Defence, you will make again 10 fold by putting the same amount of money into health care.

As for corruption, I would argue that there has always been a certain amount of corruption in Canadian politics because, as Mulrooney put it best "You dance with the one what brung ya".  The only reason that the new and improved Consevative party can claim the moral high ground in this respect is that they have never been given the chance to get their hands on the public purse.  Once again, it‘s not a sign of honesty if the only reason you haven‘t got caught with your hands in the cookie jar is that you‘re to short to reach it!.

I think that the new and improved Conservatives will be seen as simply an offshoot of the Reform party, and as a result many of the Red Tories that composed the bulk of the party in Ontario and Atlantic Canada will either throw their support behind the NDP, or the Liberals and well have another 5 years under the "Natural Governing Party".


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## tmbluesbflat (5 Mar 2004)

I believe that the original budget estimate for the fire arms registry was something like one million dollars. It has passed two billion according to a source close to the source, and has nowhere to go but up. Apparently it has made a very few folk quite wealthy. The original method of registration was more than adequate. In days of yore 50‘s 60‘s military personnel were payed with no deductions, paid no taxes etc. etc. But as service people got all the benifits. Now I would imagine that the beaurcracy associated with "pay" probably accounts for a far larger bit of the budget than we are aware of, much larger!


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