# Comm Research



## snoop101

Hello all
So I got two questions. 
First off I understand that Comm research people can be thrown anywhere. The question I have is that I know you get asked a preference to what faction, but what faction usually has the most openings? AS in they might say well we got one opening in the army, but we got a few opening aboard a ship. 

Second question I have is if you want to be on a boat or in a port after you have done your basic training and waiting on courses would they send you to Victoria for navy training instead of PAT or is that "jumping the gun"?


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## acnose

While many people in comm rsch are proud of their uniforms, it is just that, a uniform.  Your uniform has no bearing on where your posted, whether its ship or not.  So really you have to ask yourself if you want to wear combats or naval combats.  As for your second question, looking for a navy training before your 3's is jumping the gun a little.  More power to you if you can get loaded, but I don't think it would be likely.


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## LoKe

Comm Rsch, as far as I've gathered, is a fairly purple trade.  Your element has little bearing on where you serve, and it's unlikely that you'll ever see a ship unless someone decides to finally retire.  I'm a 291 with the Navy and though I'm still quite new, I don't expect to see a ship within the near future.


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## LoKe

I'm on PRETC waiting for my QL3's, which I understand to be broken up into two phases.  After phase 1 while I'm waiting for my clearance, what are my options?  I heard something about being posted to Washington/Baltimore/Kingston/Borden/Ottawa for clerk work or something, what's up with that?


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## acnose

Ha, good luck with that.  The states side postings are avaiable once your in and trained, but ottawa or kingston and your more likely opportunities while awaiting clearance.


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## aussiechangover

LoKe said:
			
		

> I'm on PRETC waiting for my QL3's, which I understand to be broken up into two phases.  After phase 1 while I'm waiting for my clearance, what are my options?  I heard something about being posted to Washington/Baltimore/Kingston/Borden/Ottawa for clerk work or something, what's up with that?



i know a few people who have finished the part 1 of the course and they were sent on OJT to various places such as 2EW, Leitrim just doing odd jobs, various recruiting centers and speaking for myself i've been in Montreal for an extended period of time, some even chose to undertake 2nd language training. A


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## TChuki

DId my phase I in Jan/ 08, still waiting for the clearance. I am in Victoria, BC.
Everyone would love to travel to states, but thats only after you are fully trained, 5s qualified.

EWAT options:  2ew, french language, OR, HMCS ONtario, (all on CFB Kingston) CFB Esqmlt.=Victoria bc, Leitrim, and anything that you may have set up already ie. a lot of resv. to  reg. OTs just go back to their units in home towns.


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## jmlz87

I'm over @ CFRC Van on EWAT after finishing PH1 QL3 for COMM RSCH JR. Have to say, didn't think I'd get out of PRETC haha. 

EWAT pos's avail are pretty much what TChuki said, but if you get clever and contact a unit back home (go through your CoC) you can possibly get a pos over there as long as you're not sitting on your butt. The instructors at CFSCE are real good at getting you onto something after PH1. If you want advice on which is the best option to take, try to find a pos available with a PRes unit or CFRC back home and if that fails, take SLT. It'll help you out a lot come PER time.

Like I said, I'm working over here in CFRC Vancouver as an acting File Manager. If you're ATT POSTED you are not entitled to PLD (don't argue with your CoC on this either) and you're still on CFSCE's payroll. It's great living back at home after a year and a bit out East. My recommendation for all you who want EWAT in a recruiting center, understand that the unit is not like anything you've dealt with before. It's really opened my eyes on how the ranks work together and it is a great experience, just keep your nose clean. You are expected to understand your place in their org, and that being a Pte or Cpl at best.


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## meni0n

jmlz, we had a comm rsch cpl att posted from Borden for two and a half years and he fought CoC for his PLD and he got it. He's on this site so I'm sure he'll post here shortly.


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## jmlz87

meni0n: The issue was raised when the Adj of CFRC Vancouver mentioned there was nth on my message and asked me to check with my CoC back at CFSCE. What I got from my MS was they tried pushing it through up the Chain numerous times before and always came back negative. It got to the point that [if you b!tch about not getting PLD or incidentals we're going to RTU you and send you back to PRETC]. 

I have to dig out the directive for ATT POSTINGS but I do recall hearing from someone EWAT is at no expense to the Crown other than your salary. I could be wrong and I await the reply from the Cpl you referred to.


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## meni0n

I don't see how you wouldn't qualify for PLD as you are living in the same geographic area as the people who are actually getting it. I would put in a grievance if you are getting threatened to get sent back by asking what you are entitled to. There is no excuse for people trying to avoid doing extra admin work by threatening a member.


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## aussiechangover

you'll have to check with your OR. if you fall into an area where there is PLD and meet the requirements then you should be entitled to it. i fought with it when i was in Montreal as meni0n mentioned but it does work out and you should receive a nice back pay amount


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## jmlz87

meni0n and aussiechangover,

Thanks for the advice. I've consulted CBI 204.45 PLD, and found some interesting information there. It does explicitly say "posted" but I will have a chat with my MCpl and my OR in regards if that "Att Posting" is bullsh** or not. I do not have the mortgage but I do pay a monthly rate to my parents as "rent". 

Update:

In short, I am not entitled to PLD or Incidentals. Reason being? My primary area of residence (loc of HG/F&E) is here in Vancouver, and not Kingston. I have not had a paid move yet, nor will I til I finish my 3s. And being single I am not eligible per CBI 204.45 and DCBA. To further this, I have been notified that the Adj here and staff back over at CFSCE both sent an inquiry over to DCBA in ref to my situation and the reply came back negative both times. Until I have that paid move from CFIRP I am not entitled to those allowances.


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## GDawg

Here is a question for you Comm Rsch guys.

I am CT/OTing to your trade, as a Sig Op is there any chance whatsoever that I could get QL3 part 1 written off?

I am in a position to request a PLAR for that, but it would likely push my contract start date to the right, and I've got a feeling the response to the PLAR will be negative. Any advice?


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## aussiechangover

GDawg said:
			
		

> Here is a question for you Comm Rsch guys.
> 
> I am CT/OTing to your trade, as a Sig Op is there any chance whatsoever that I could get QL3 part 1 written off?
> 
> I am in a position to request a PLAR for that, but it would likely push my contract start date to the right, and I've got a feeling the response to the PLAR will be negative. Any advice?



i highly doubt that it will be written off totally i've know a few sigops who changed over and had to do it completely, currently it's under review and from what i've heard morse is making a come back


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## GDawg

I suspected as much, I also got a negative response from higher so I accepted the contract offer. So I've got a brand new job and I don't even have to change my hat!


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## jmlz87

aussiechangover said:
			
		

> i highly doubt that it will be written off totally i've know a few sigops who changed over and had to do it completely, currently it's under review and from what i've heard morse is making a come back



From what I heard unofficially in the COMM RSCH world at CFSCE, Morse is needed once again, but AFAIK no plans to bring it back into the QL3 curriculum exist (as of yet). Instead, they might bring it back as a Speciality.


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## Gimpy42

Does one of you guy know when they plan to change our branch to sig-int?


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## PuckChaser

Gimpy42 said:
			
		

> Does one of you guy know when they plan to change our branch to sig-int?



Your trade, not your branch. There's been rumours of a change to the Int cap badge, but its not being mentioned anymore around the halls of the EW Sqn, so I would hazard a guess at it not being soon, or ever.


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## meni0n

Heard C&E didn't want to let go so it's canned, at least for now.


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## aussiechangover

jmlz87 said:
			
		

> From what I heard unofficially in the COMM RSCH world at CFSCE, Morse is needed once again, but AFAIK no plans to bring it back into the QL3 curriculum exist (as of yet). Instead, they might bring it back as a Speciality.



just a bit of an update, morse is needed but not everyone will require it from what i've been told it's going to be taught in house for certain people that are on shifts


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## jmlz87

Hey 291'ers, is there posting avail on the West Coast at all? Someone told me they might have a few in Esquimalt. Just wanted to check this out.


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## meni0n

You can check on EMMA if you got access but I doubt there is any positions for Pte-Cpl except in Leitrim and Kingston.


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## Acadian10

Correction, it would be EMAA and not EMMA. Just google EMAA and you should find it after searching a few links. Everyone in the CF should have an account there. Makes like much easier and less paper work.


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## snoop101

Thought I'd thank everyone for the info and give an update.
After spending a couple years now researching and deciding on a trade I finally applied and had my test,interview and medical about 3 1/2 weeks ago. I just called today to get an update and my medical is being sent back from Ottawa as of last week. The gentleman on the phone said that I should be getting a call this week and that it looks like I'll be heading out for Aug. 

This is a pretty big change from me as I have a pretty nice job and never lived on the east side of Canada. I'm looking for the long run benefits and career move so hopefully it all pans out.


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## meni0n

Quick question, anyone in Kingston know if the QL3 part 2 scheduled for August is happening? I know the last one was canned due to not having enough people with clearances available.


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## PuckChaser

As of today, the Army course calender still has these 4 courses listed as still continuing:

04-Aug-09	29-Oct-09
08-Sep-09	03-Dec-09
11-Jan-10	07-Apr-10
15-Feb-10	11-May-10


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## meni0n

Thanks Puck, I'm on parental at the moment so don't have access to the DIN. I guess they'll update the calendar after the course date to write if it happend or not. Looks like I might be spending Christmas and hopefully be on one of the two courses after new year's.


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## meni0n

An update, I got a posting message out of the blue in my email. It was sent to the wrong place so it took my unit by surprise. It's a good thing I come in to check my email from time to time on parental.

Is it normal practice to be posted to Kingston for the part 1 month and a half course and then sit and twiddle your fingers waiting for next part? It seems like someone decided to save some money on TD and R&Q to make my family move an extra time before I finish the QL3 and move to Ottawa. I got Level 3 clearance so I won't have to sit around a year and a half waiting for a clearance, which makes this posting more of a mystery. I don't understand why I can't go on TD for the part 1 of the course, come back to the unit where I have gainful employment and not sit on my bum in PAT and then come back when there's a part 2 taking place. 

Sorry for the rant but it just boggles the mind.


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## GDawg

I'd love to know if I am on part 1 anytime soon, or if I even need to take it.

I've never encountered a simple question that the CF couldn't complicate.


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## freakerz

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> As of today, the Army course calender still has these 4 courses listed as still continuing:
> 
> 04-Aug-09	29-Oct-09
> 08-Sep-09	03-Dec-09
> 11-Jan-10	07-Apr-10
> 15-Feb-10	11-May-10



I'm completing my BMQ on Oct 23rd 2009, based on the list you posted, is the next course in December or January?
(The course isn't 3 months... what's the date on the right?)


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## Ice97

Based on the date's I believe those are for the Comm Rsch Phase 2....which is about 60 training days.  Still have the Phase 1 to do before it


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## GDawg

There is another batch of students in the hopper shopping for EWAT jobs now, would anyone care to share any advice, tips, or experiences of EWAT between part 1 and 2?

Personally I am looking for a position at a Res Comm unit, as I used to be a Sig Op, I also have PLQ and a tour.

I would gladly go back to Afghanistan once more as a Sig Op while I wait, though I am told its not possible.


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## aesop081

GDawg said:
			
		

> though I am told its not possible.



Understandable considering that you are no longer a Sig Op.


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## GDawg

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Understandable considering that you are no longer a Sig Op.



On the surface it makes sense, but its strange considering I _instructed_ a Sig Op QL3 course _after_ I ceased to be a Sig Op!


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## Ice97

GDawg said:
			
		

> There is another batch of students in the hopper shopping for EWAT jobs now, would anyone care to share any advice, tips, or experiences of EWAT between part 1 and 2?
> 
> Personally I am looking for a position at a Res Comm unit, as I used to be a Sig Op, I also have PLQ and a tour.
> 
> I would gladly go back to Afghanistan once more as a Sig Op while I wait, though I am told its not possible.



They won't send you on tour while awaiting a Security Clearance to go on your Phase 2.  Definately wont send you as a Sig Op....makes no sense since you clearly aren't a Sig Op anymore.

As for EWAT....they have different things.  SLT, 2 EW.  I worked at the C & E Museum for 1 year.  If you want to be EWAT'd to maybe a recruitment centre or unit in your home town....you can do that.  But they'll tell you to set it up yourself....and at no cost to the Crown


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## gelan

Hey GDawg, 2EW is a fantastic place to be posted between phase 1 & 2, you can actually be employed somewhere your skill set can be used. Me? I used to be a Tool and Die Maker's assistant before I joined the forces, so I'm being employed in the Maintenance section. Since you were a Sig Op, you have an opportunity to be used with our sigs section/troop. If you can, don't sit around CFSCE's pat platoon, I hear it's a nightmare over there. Get to the dub, where you can actually learn about the trade.


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## meni0n

Does anyone know if the part 2 courses in jan or feb are going to happen? I'm getting no info passed on to me as I am sitting on the BTL on a base not far away from Kingston. I got my TS and even a TD message from Borden but no course message. I asked my chain about special access but I've been told Kingston will take care of it. There isn't much time left before everyone's gone on leave and it's impossible to get any sort of information.


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## GDawg

gelan said:
			
		

> Hey GDawg, 2EW is a fantastic place to be posted between phase 1 & 2, you can actually be employed somewhere your skill set can be used. Me? I used to be a Tool and Die Maker's assistant before I joined the forces, so I'm being employed in the Maintenance section. Since you were a Sig Op, you have an opportunity to be used with our sigs section/troop. If you can, don't sit around CFSCE's pat platoon, I hear it's a nightmare over there. Get to the dub, where you can actually learn about the trade.



I'm working on it, its not my call though, and yes, PAT is a nightmare. I wish the Commandant knew about it...


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## PuckChaser

meni0n said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if the part 2 courses in jan or feb are going to happen? I'm getting no info passed on to me as I am sitting on the BTL on a base not far away from Kingston. I got my TS and even a TD message from Borden but no course message. I asked my chain about special access but I've been told Kingston will take care of it. There isn't much time left before everyone's gone on leave and it's impossible to get any sort of information.



A friend of mine was tentative loaded for that course, but there is only 8-9 candidates ready for training, so the serials are moving right to hopefully catch more with a clearance.


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## meni0n

Puck, is that confirmed that the course won't be happening? I'm guessing the feb one will be zero loaded too since the two courses are only a month apart and I doubt they'll be able to get the clearances within a month. Should I be planning for the May course?


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## freakerz

Any of you guys know if there will be a course phase 1 (just out of BMQ) in January? or is it in 2011?


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## meni0n

There`s a Phase 1 scheduled for 11 Jan 10, now will they have enough people to run is a different story. The october phase 1 course was zero loaded probably due to not having enough candidates.


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## freakerz

Would you happen to know how many candidates are required and if they are every 3 months or yearly?


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## meni0n

Minimum is 16, at least that`s what the CFSCE course calendar states. Course after January is in March so it looks like they run 4 serials a year.


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## chevalnoir

If you're still on BMQ, I wouldn't worry too much about when the next phase 1 course starts. You'll have to do your BMQ(land) - what used to be called SQ - before they will course load you on your phase 1 anyhow. At least this week. Requirements seem to change in random ways at random times.

Ditto for course dates,  they're subject to change right up until the start date, and in at least one case, several days after the start date.

None of which matters, because you'll be sitting around for a year or two or three waiting for your security clearance anyhow. More than enough  time  to fit in all your required courses.

Start cultivating patience now, you'll need it.


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## meni0n

A quick update on Part 2, it looks like the Jan course is zero loaded, going off the CFSCE calendar. I`ll venture a guess that the same thing will happen to the February course as well.


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## freakerz

Gawd, I'm really starting to wonder if I made the right choice... I love the fact that I'll be doing SQ and possibly naval training in the future, but is Comm Rsch worth the wait (courses+security clearance)?

I keep hearing it's a great job, but how can my career make any progress if I'll be waiting years to complete my QL3?!

Anyone can enlighten me on this, what is there to do when you wait for your trade school? (I know it's unit's decision for most options, but any personal experiences?)

P.S.: Comm Rsch wasn't in my choices, was my last choice because of my vision (V4) and in the navy element. (Thus this reflection)


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## GDawg

meni0n said:
			
		

> A quick update on Part 2, it looks like the Jan course is zero loaded, going off the CFSCE calendar. I`ll venture a guess that the same thing will happen to the February course as well.



...at least we're not sig ops any more!


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## meni0n

Amen to that GDawg. 

To freakerz, I understand how you feel as myself and probably most of the guys who are waiting for the part 2 are feeling exactly the same. Stuck in the grey area where there is no information on when you will be on course or even when your clearance will come in. Me and GD already got our level 3 but we're waiting for our SA right now, I think GD has been waiting for his since October and mine got submitted just this month due to being in a black hole of CFSCE admin. What's also frustrating is not knowing when you'll be on course even when you get your clearance. They keep zero loading part 2s, at this rate they might run one or two this year again. So even if you  got your clearance, you might be waiting half a year to get on course. I am lucky than most as I got to stay with my unit because I was an OT and I'm basically doing the same jobs before, and will be here until I get on course. 

I have a buddy in Ottawa and I hear the same thing, that it's worth the wait and it's a great trade. I know he'll never lie to me about things like that so that is why I am still waiting. The only thing I can recommend to you is to get an ILP and take some college/university courses or some OPME courses. This will keep you busy, get you extra points on a PER later on.


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## GDawg

freakerz said:
			
		

> Gawd, I'm really starting to wonder if I made the right choice... I love the fact that I'll be doing SQ and possibly naval training in the future, but is Comm Rsch worth the wait (courses+security clearance)?
> 
> I keep hearing it's a great job, but how can my career make any progress if I'll be waiting years to complete my QL3?!
> 
> Anyone can enlighten me on this, what is there to do when you wait for your trade school? (I know it's unit's decision for most options, but any personal experiences?)
> 
> P.S.: Comm Rsch wasn't in my choices, was my last choice because of my vision (V4) and in the navy element. (Thus this reflection)



You'll do BMQ-L (what used to be called SQ), and getting on the QL3 part I is a sure thing. During the QL3 part I you will submit your security clearance paperwork and then the waiting game for part II begins. Things get a bit depressing at that point as you will be in the CFSCE PAT Pl. Things are getting better, CFSCE is starting to re-realize that Comm Rsch PATs are different from the other PATs. There will be general duties tasks around CFB Kingston to keep you busy, and hopefully you'll land a "long term" tasking to keep you busy while you wait for a course. 

Its a shame that the system is so bunged up, but its a good trade and if you can keep a positive attitude you can do some self improvement while at CFSCE, like meni0n said.


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## blacktriangle

meni0n said:
			
		

> The only thing I can recommend to you is to get an ILP and take some college/university courses or some OPME courses. This will keep you busy, get you extra points on a PER later on.



+1

This is really good advice to ANYONE that has some time to kill.


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## CallOfDuty

psssst...sorry guys, quick hi-jack here.  Does anyone know which OPME courses count as full university credits?   Just starting to really consider the UTPNCM.
  Thanks


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## NCRCrow

http://www.rmc.ca/aca/dcs-dep/ftl/rmctcg-tcacmr.pdf

or

http://www.rmc.ca/aca/dcs-dep/ftl/rmcbmas-cmrbasm-eng.asp


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## MJP

CallOfDuty said:
			
		

> psssst...sorry guys, quick hi-jack here.  Does anyone know which OPME courses count as full university credits?   Just starting to really consider the UTPNCM.
> Thanks



Intro to Defense Management & Intro to Mil Law do not count.  The rest are good to go.


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## CallOfDuty

Great..thanks guys :christmas happy:


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## freakerz

Yeah, I guess I would have time and money to do a university degree (one-two course at a time) ...

So the security clearance they made me fill on week X of BMQ for "top secret" clearance is not being processed yet, they took prints and references NOW, but I'll have to submit new ones in Kingston?  :-X (lady told me it would get processed "right away" ... lol)


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## Jammer

Your MOSID is wrong. There is no "0"291. It's 00120.
No one's clearance gets processed right away. Get yourself ready for a few months on PAT Platoon when you get to Kingston.


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## hotei

freakerz said:
			
		

> Yeah, I guess I would have time and money to do a university degree (one-two course at a time) ...
> 
> So the security clearance they made me fill on week X of BMQ for "top secret" clearance is not being processed yet, they took prints and references NOW, but I'll have to submit new ones in Kingston?  :-X (lady told me it would get processed "right away" ... lol)



Frorm my experience (and I can only speak for mine), my paperwork that was filled out at St. Jean was sufficient, and was entered into the system while I was doing BMQ. That being said, every case may be different, and you will be given further information when you do your Phase I course.


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## lutherd

I am currently in the training system at CFSCE,  I also did the apparent "top secret" clearance paper work in st jean. However I had to get another set of prints and photos done here. And it has now started the process


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## meni0n

Has anyone seen the career manager's newsletter? It seems there are 201 untrained comm rsch awaiting clearances. Given that they run only 2 courses per year with 18 pers max per course, it would take 5 years to clear the backlog. Even if they did run the maximum amount of 4 courses per year, it would still take close to 3 years and that's without any new intake. 

Although in the state of the trade, they are only short of about 30 pte/cpl. Is that one of the possible reasons why they are 
not really doing anything about the clearance problem? The CM did mention that it's being addressed higher but where and
what is actually being done is a mystery.


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## LoKe

As far as I know, CR is back to priority 1 for clearances.  I've noticed about 40 get pushed through in the last month and a half.  They're moving a lot faster than they used to be.

And yes, 201 is correct.  I saw the list about three weeks ago, but since then the number has dropped by 19-30.  The January course is full or nearly full, as far as I know.   If they do get enough cleared people, they'll probably just find a way to run more courses, or maybe more people per course.


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## meni0n

Loke, have you noticed which people are getting pushed thru? I've heard of people who have under a year in the military getting their clearance while there are still guys who have been waiting for more than two years that didn't get theirs yet.

Is there an actual list or is it being done randomly?


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## meni0n

Anyone in the know if the january and february courses are running and if they are full or not yet?


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## BravoDelta

Good Day

I just heard thast the phase 2 has been bumped up to 6 months can anyone provide hearsay/info on this?...did they bring moris back again?


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## aesop081

BravoDelta said:
			
		

> did they bring moris back again?










Oh....you meant "Morse" code.........


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## meni0n

According to CFSCE calendar, part 2 just went from 53 to 84 training days with the next course running 10 Jan 11 to 13 May 11. That means they can run only three courses per fiscal year. The waiting time get qualified in this trade is extremely demoralizing.


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## George Wallace

Once your moral has been broken down, there is only one way but up.    :nod:


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## Occam

Beatings will continue until morale improves.


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## meni0n

Morale will improve once the people responsible for the delays are beaten


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## Cadaren

meni0n said:
			
		

> Anyone in the know if the january and february courses are running and if they are full or not yet?



Jan is full, no idea on Feb, though I doubt they'll run it.


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## meni0n

Feb is already crossed out of the calendar so next course is probably summer or fall. Hooray for that :-[


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## L@V

"from what i've heard morse is making a come back"

it is comming back, but not as part of the 3s...

its a 6 month course that will be given between ql3 phase 1 n 2


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## Occam

L@V said:
			
		

> "from what i've heard morse is making a come back"
> 
> it is comming back, but not as part of the 3s...
> 
> its a 6 month course that will be given between ql3 phase 1 n 2



6 months?  _Doing nothing but morse_?

You rubberheads oughta be able to copy about 100 wpm after that...   ;D


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## meni0n

What a great way to motivate the troops but with a six month morse code course eh.


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## Occam

meni0n said:
			
		

> What a great way to motivate the troops but with a six month morse code course eh.



Didahdit didahdidahdit!


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## freakerz

Course is more than just morse code:

- review of phase 1
- learning what changed in the new phase 1 (unix taken out, replaced by more gen comms, so learn the new gen comms, etc.)
- typing skills
- general knowledge pertinent to our trade (geography, politics, recognizing a bunch of equipment/objects) ---> very vague, so don't quote just yet

Apparently it will "save" us time, since it will be credited and we won't have to do it once we get to Leitrim. (we used to wait all this time just to get to Leitrim and do another 6 months of course?)


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## meni0n

From what I heard this is a voluntary course? I haven't even seen it on the CFSCE calendar yet. Is this course part of the reason they extended part two by a month and a half so running less courses a year.


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## freakerz

The first morse course starting this month was voluntary hoping they'ld get the minimum 20-24 people they were looking for. They came short because a bunch (8+) are going on SLT, so they voluntold several from the database and of course, poorly notified the surpervisors, friend of mine found out through me.. typical 4sqn.. and they scheduled a guy I know who's currently doing SLT..  :blotto:

And of course, you have the usual weasels. Thankfully the class has several Cpls and no names from my shitpump list! Very optimistic!

In case you guys didn't know, they're planning to "dissolve" PAT... sending them to their trade base units (sig ops to edmonton, valcartier, etc., comm rsch to 21ew, atis/lcis no clue/pet?)... PAT would only be for the orientation week then it's off to a unit... sounds like a lot of TD  :-\


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## meni0n

They might actually need to post people to the units because it could take a long time for people to get on course so no TD will be necessary I guess. 

I wonder if they actually looked at the time it takes for people in this trade to get their clearance and get qualified. It seems  new people get theirs faster than other cases such as CTs and OTs.


----------



## freakerz

Define new people? I've been here since early '10 and have both interviews, still the average wait after both is 6 to 8 months.
Our hope (and I'm guessing 2SQN's) is that after the morse code course, we'll have our clearances, or enough to hold a phase 2.


----------



## meni0n

New people I mean new recruits off the street.  You mean average wait for clearance 6 to 8 months? That's pretty good I would say. Been more than that for me and they just did my update. I've been told I got another year of waiting for the SA.


----------



## freakerz

6 to 8 months after you get both interviews. Time to get those interviews for me was 8 months alone (pretty much all comm rsch I know got theres around sept-oct 2010, 2 massive interview weeks)
I'm currently waiting for Ottawa to approve (I'm guessing)... that's what seems to take 6 to 8 months (based on ppl we know that got their SA or TS this year)

I've come to know both extremes.. fresh out of St-Jean and couple weeks later he's SA/TS cleared, another's contract is up (4th year) and still no news..


----------



## meni0n

4th year of waiting? No one trying to find out what's happening with him? I'm surprised someone can wait for so long and not do a reassignment.


----------



## PuckChaser

That's where all the OTs come from in PAT, people tired of waiting. Or they get their TS and find out some of the jobs you get stuck doing really aren't that cool.


----------



## freakerz

meni0n said:
			
		

> 4th year of waiting? No one trying to find out what's happening with him? I'm surprised someone can wait for so long and not do a reassignment.



This is 4sqn we're talking about. And you have no idea how secretive clearances are for PATs, we don't get access to the website where you can track process (missing infos, interviews, etc).
One person manages clearances and he's doing his best I'm sure.
But people aren't always told their interview timings on time (friend was told 5 days after his, thankfully again, I told him about his).. that's 4sqn's fault from what I've seen.
So they go back under CSIS's pile, as we were told by their agents and guessing that's what happened with people with more than 2 years of wait.

The MWO in charge of 291'ers of the school found out about the long waits (2+ years) early december, to give you an idea of the situation.
He said he would have the security officer review everyone's clearances with more than 2 years of wait, even took a list of names from the 20-30 ppl we were at the brief.
But again, as the past as proven to me, they talk a lot... nothing really happens. The morse code is the first thing to really happen (and there were never any rumors about it, it just happened).


----------



## freakerz

About morse code.. how bad do we need morse code operators? A friend suggested this could be a one-time course to "trick" a bunch of us into that job..
And for those that know guys who have gone through that course or worked as a morse code operator (no clue if it's a full-time job or what)... is it that bad? Anything unclassified about it?


----------



## meni0n

What the USS going to do is go on the database, check and it will say clearance pending, maybe he would email DPM SECUR and they would email back 1 sentence saying clearance sent to analyst for review and that would be the end of that.  

I don't think I will be waiting another year or more.


----------



## blacktriangle

This thread makes me thankful to still have another 2.5 weeks of leave.


----------



## PuckChaser

Spectrum said:
			
		

> This thread makes me thankful to still have another 2.5 weeks of leave.



Hate. I have to go back a week from Monday.


----------



## freakerz

meni0n said:
			
		

> What the USS going to do is go on the database, check and it will say clearance pending, maybe he would email DPM SECUR and they would email back 1 sentence saying clearance sent to analyst for review and that would be the end of that.
> 
> I don't think I will be waiting another year or more.



See, that's more info about the process than we're told, thanks.
Delays I've witnessed were: missing/correcting information on forms and missing interviews.
How can a PAT miss an interview knowing it's their TS/SA:
- E-mail notifications to the pers... not knowing the pers doesn't have DWAN access yet.
- Asking other PATs to hunt down the pers since they lost or can't reach him (lost tasking infos).
- E-mail sent simply after the interview. (yeah.. wtf)
- Member is on leave (outside country)

On our end, we blame 4sqn, obviously they are overwhelmed hence the whole sending PATs to different units after holidays.
Let's hope that move improves pers management! God knows my current tasking's CoC is quick and effective..

</rant>


----------



## blacktriangle

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Hate. I have to go back a week from Monday.



That's why they pay you the big bucks


----------



## George Wallace

freakerz said:
			
		

> See, that's more info about the process than we're told, thanks.
> Delays I've witnessed were: missing/correcting information on forms and missing interviews.
> How can a PAT miss an interview knowing it's their TS/SA:
> - E-mail notifications to the pers... not knowing the pers doesn't have DWAN access yet.



 ???

A Clearance is done from a DWAN acct email address.  How can a pers not have one?  Once again I will venture into this explanation:  A member must have a DWAN email address for the USS to send them the Password to access WebSPCS where they will fill out the TBS/SCT 330-60e and TBS/SCT 330-23e.  Those forms, once they are verified complete with the Global Completeness Check are submitted to the USS.  The USS checks them, prints them, has the member sign the hard copies, and for a Lvl III will also take photos (passport size/signed by member) and submit the electronic copies to DPMSecur 2, as well as mail off the hard copies with original signatures to DPM Secur 2.  After that has been done, everything is now under DPM Secur 2 control.  All the USS can do is check if the file has been moved to Ready for QC and then Processing at QC.  Eventually the USS will get back a notice that the member is due for their Initial Briefing and they will print off and sign a TBS/SCT 330-47 (3 copies).  Then the member will have their Clearance.



			
				freakerz said:
			
		

> - Asking other PATs to hunt down the pers since they lost or can't reach him (lost tasking infos).



This is why the member must have a valid DWAN email address.



			
				freakerz said:
			
		

> - E-mail sent simply after the interview. (yeah.. wtf)



 ???




			
				freakerz said:
			
		

> - Member is on leave (outside country)



Unforeseen circumstance out of everyones control.  Member will have to wait until they come back to sign their Initial Briefing.  Too bad.  So sad.



			
				freakerz said:
			
		

> On our end, we blame 4sqn, obviously they are overwhelmed hence the whole sending PATs to different units after holidays.
> Let's hope that move improves pers management! God knows my current tasking's CoC is quick and effective..



Now you are blaming someone/many who have absolutely nothing to do with the process.

If you don't know how the process works, please don't make up a rant until you do.


----------



## PuckChaser

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A Clearance is done from a DWAN acct email address.



The process can be completed without a DWAN, the member is given a blank form and they complete with a pen. USS types in the fields on the member's behalf, then has the member sign the forms before they're submitted.

Its not as common anymore, but I had to do it this way as a young reservist because LFCA didn't give email accounts to people with only a year in.


----------



## freakerz

In my case, I filled paper forms in St-Jean, pictures and finger prints were taken there too.
And those were the forms they used in my TS interview (I asked the agent since a lot of ppl were saying they use the ones you refill once you get to Kingston).

Unless this has changed over the holidays, DWAN accounts are not handed out in St-Jean but when you get to Kingston and fill out an Annex G (don't know the form number).
It used to take months to get one, no clue if it still takes that long. And also, keep in mind a lot of people don't do it at all and get theirs on course (happened on my phase 1 to several ppl).

As for people on leave, wouldn't it make sense for the USS to warn CSIS so your file isn't put under the pile for another 6+ months?

By the way, my rant is mainly about 4sqn losing track of its pers.

And I know how the process is done once you're out of PAT... we don't have access to the "WebSPCS" website you refer to.
So there are delays when processing is stopped for missing info, errors, updates, etc... pers has to be contacted through their CoC


----------



## George Wallace

freakerz said:
			
		

> As for people on leave, wouldn't it make sense for the USS to warn CSIS so your file isn't put under the pile for another 6+ months?



Two things:

One: The USS does not keep track of when you or any of your friends goes on Leave.

Two:  CSIS works on their own schedule, independent of DND and the CF.


----------



## Altair

freakerz said:
			
		

> The first morse course starting this month was voluntary hoping they'ld get the minimum 20-24 people they were looking for. They came short because a bunch (8+) are going on SLT, so they voluntold several from the database and of course, poorly notified the surpervisors, friend of mine found out through me.. typical 4sqn.. and they scheduled a guy I know who's currently doing SLT..  :blotto:
> 
> And of course, you have the usual weasels. Thankfully the class has several Cpls and no names from my shitpump list! Very optimistic!
> 
> In case you guys didn't know, they're planning to "dissolve" PAT... sending them to their trade base units (sig ops to edmonton, valcartier, etc., comm rsch to 21ew, atis/lcis no clue/pet?)... PAT would only be for the orientation week then it's off to a unit... sounds like a lot of TD  :-\


Sig Ops to edmonton?

great, the wife is just going to love that. Seeing how she's in school for the next 2 years near Kingston.


----------



## George Wallace

Altair said:
			
		

> Sig Ops to edmonton?
> 
> great, the wife is just going to love that. Seeing how she's in school for the next 2 years near Kingston.



Did the CF issue her to you or did you pick her out on your own?











Sorry.  Some military Black Humour there.  You have joined the CF and will likely spend long periods away from your family throughout your military career.  If you want to remain in a situation where you will never be separated from you spouse, then the military is not for you.  Quite simple really.  And yes, no one likes it (99%), but it is something that we all have to deal with.  Be glad that you are going to get some training and experience out of it.


----------



## freakerz

Altair said:
			
		

> Sig Ops to edmonton?
> 
> great, the wife is just going to love that. Seeing how she's in school for the next 2 years near Kingston.



Don't quote me on the bases, but you may have the choice of Edmonton, Petawawa and Valcartier. (main ones grads are sent to)


----------



## Altair

Petawawa would be ideal, I spent 6 months there as a PAT doing some OJT, and was able travel to see the better half on weekends.

seeing how this is the army though, I wouldn't really get a choice, just told to show up.

As such is life I suppose.


----------



## meni0n

So it looks like waiting times are going to be status quo this year as well given that the part 2 length being extended. Hooray for that.


----------



## PuckChaser

If you want to earn Spec Pay, you get to get screwed by the system for a few years first. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener.


----------



## meni0n

From what I heard is that for us cpls, the spec pay back pay starts once we finish part 2. It's a small consolation at least.


----------



## blacktriangle

I have heard of efforts like that too, and while I won't count on it, it sure would be nice. 

All in all I agree that while the wait times can be pretty annoying...it's what we have to do for the trade and the spec pay. There are few other gigs in the CF that I could really see myself being interested in these days, and the postings are pretty hard to beat from my perspective. 

From what I've heard, promotions may get pretty scarce (though it depends who you talk to) but I'm willing to deal with that in exchange for the job/pay/postings. 

EDITED TO ADD:

With all that said though, I do think the clearance times are out to lunch, and I feel that there should be a better system in place to automatically deal with Comm Rsch PATs. Perhaps the Morse code course is a step in the right direction, but it would certainly need to be expanded. Long term EWATs or being tasked to pursue higher education should occur more frequently and faster. The trade should probably take care of it's own...not the little mini empire that is CFSCE 4 Sqn.


----------



## PuckChaser

meni0n said:
			
		

> From what I heard is that for us cpls, the spec pay back pay starts once we finish part 2. It's a small consolation at least.



I think its supposed to be back dated to when you were promoted to Cpl, after you finish your QL5. I'll ask a few friends on Monday to clarify for you.


----------



## meni0n

Do you mean back dated to when promotion to cpl happend or cpl and ql5? 

I know a guy who was finishing his 5s and he did his 3s as a cpl and he said he was getting back dated to when he finished his part 2. 

Which came to about 18 months of back dated spec pay which is a pretty nice chunk of change.


----------



## PuckChaser

Yeah, for OTs (who are Cpls already) I believe you're correct, it back dates to Pt2 completion. I was thinking you were a direct entry for some reason.


----------



## freakerz

Anyone in the know can say if this morse code is a trap to fill a quota? Are you guys able to talk about how the morse operator postings are?


----------



## meni0n

Not sure about quotas but I'm sure with retirements they will be short of morse code operators.

With all that said It's really not impressive at all how the trade treats its newest members by doing the bare minimum to have 

people qualified as soon as possible.


----------



## blacktriangle

Do you know if you are actually getting a qualification out of it? Or is it like those non accredited "Pre PLQ" courses they were running at one point? That might determine whether they might "trap" you. 

From the people I have talked to on their 5's, you will get sent to Leitrim and given an OJT package to complete based on what Sqn you are sent to, and what position you will be filling. As always there are going to be good gos, and well...you get the idea. 

But Meni0n..totally agree. I met one guy a few months ago that had been in for 4 years doing Port Security stuff and was now releasing...without his clearance or trades training. You honestly have to wonder how much money the CF wastes in the process of getting people cleared...


----------



## meni0n

They didn't add this course to the current CFSCE calendar yet so I am not sure how this is going to pan out although no one's back from leave yet so it might get added to the 11/12 calendar. 

As for the 4 year case, that's kind of sad really. Ironic the guy who was taking care of clearances for comm rsch got promoted and posted yet you got cases like that happening.


----------



## freakerz

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Do you know if you are actually getting a qualification out of it? Or is it like those non accredited "Pre PLQ" courses they were running at one point? That might determine whether they might "trap" you.



The CWO said the morse code would be credited as a qualification. I just can't remember if he said it would appear in our MPRR only after Phase 2 (meanwhile, it would be noted in our files).


----------



## freakerz

How good or bad is the morse operator position?
Staff said only 6 out of past 40ish candidates passed the 22wpm standard whereas in the 90s, as a core course, the success rate was almost 100%... ppl are obviously bombing to not go into that morse operator position.


----------



## meni0n

Didn't they stop teaching morse code on part 2 around 2006-2007? Any qualification is good to have, don't get stuck on the idea if you got morse code you will be doing that for the rest of your career.


----------



## freakerz

meni0n said:
			
		

> Didn't they stop teaching morse code on part 2 around 2006-2007? Any qualification is good to have, *don't get stuck on the idea if you got morse code you will be doing that for the rest of your career.*



It's kind of what the staff is telling us (that we'll get picked for the job and do it for a while until new trainees come around) ... kind of scary considering some are learning at 40wpm... they'll get stuck a long time lol


----------



## ff149

I did the course in the early 90's and the morse code was included in part 1. You had to pass 22 wpm and a typing test. We had I believe 10 weeks to get to this standard. If you didn't meet the standard they usually recoursed you (at least for the first attempt). That was also there to help give people time to get their clearances. Even then some people were waiting a long time for their clearances.


----------



## 291er

Hang in there fellas.  It is a good trade and worth the wait.  It's a rite of passage really.


----------



## Jeremy360

I can't vouch for it being worth the wait, but I can say how important it is to occupy yourself.  I don't know how they're managing PAT now, but score the best long-term tasking that you can.

I'll pass the two years in mark shortly without an interview of any sort, but I've found my second wind in education.  Look at the OPMEs, as they're taking applications for the upcoming semester and any bright spots on your MPRR is good.  Check out CANFORGEN 037/11 as well, self-study second language is on it's way in.  We'll just have to wait and see if it turns out.

Hell, I'm closer to being trained as a clerk than a Comm Rsch.  I've gone from preparing for release to preparing for UTP-NCM.  The requirements are strict, but if you have 2+ years of doing nothing, why not get some post-secondary education in?  A brighter future has given me a second wind and I've seen far too many OT or release already.

Keep calm and carry on.


----------



## meni0n

You got the right idea about keeping yourself busy with education. Unfortunately I don't want to be the bad news bear but you need to be a Cpl with your 5s done in order to apply to UTPNCM. If you want to go that route, I suggest getting an ILP ready and apply to a distance university such as Athabasca or RMC and start working on your degree.


----------



## Jeremy360

meni0n said:
			
		

> You got the right idea about keeping yourself busy with education. Unfortunately I don't want to be the bad news bear but you need to be a Cpl with your 5s done in order to apply to UTPNCM. If you want to go that route, I suggest getting an ILP ready and apply to a distance university such as Athabasca or RMC and start working on your degree.



I forgot to mention that, I'd read up on the requirements(I'm still digging, but I should at least by close the time my ILP is through).  I'm seeking acceptance to Queens as a mature student, if that fails St. Lawrence offers a Military Arts & Sciences program(distance) leading to "advanced standing" in RMC's Bachelor program.  I still need to research that one more...I'm probably being too positive, but being miserable was making me look old.  Athabasca is a good idea as well, I'll check it out.  

I didn't mean to derail the thread, but I don't want anyone feeling sorry for themselves for half their contract as I did.  In the very worst case, I'm not accepted for UTP-NCM or decide to stay Comm Rsch...I still come out of it with some good qualifications.

Does anyone know more of what's going on with PAT?  I'd heard that everyone was being shipped out, but they fought and won to keep me in my current position.  I spend as little time in and around the Genet as I can, lest they remember who I am and drag me back in.


----------



## meni0n

If you're interested in Military Arts and Science look into the Bachelor of Military Arts and Science from continuing education at RMC. You can do all of the courses distance and they're pretty cheap, half the price of a Athabasca course. 

I know the wait is a morale killer, I've been waiting close to two years myself. I wish the trade would at least give some sort of info on what's waiting for the guys and gals who have been waiting for a while to keep them interested. It's too easy to lose interest in something when you don't have anything to expect.


----------



## freakerz

Here's PAT schedule:

0730: Rollcall
0800-0900: Mon-Wed-Fri Dress Insp, Tues-Thurs Room Insp
0900-1000: Lectures
1000-1200: PT @ Gym (Fridays are on your own)
1200-1300: Lunch & Rollcall
1300-1400: Lectures
1400-1415: Break
1415-1530: Lectures
1530: Dismissed

Lectures include: Stress mgmt, cf grievance ppl, healthy eating, student-made briefs?, safety brief, student help services brief, safety refresher ppt, com sec brief, history brief, top fuel

Although, based on past experience, lectures probably mean wait in the PAT room.

No clue on the whole shipping out ppl, haven't heard much of it, I know a lot of people have been shipped to units, especially 21EW, but not sure EVERYONE on PAT or arriving gets redirected. (I'll update once I get back on PAT... yay..)


----------



## freakerz

How much is Comm Rsch about listening and processing, at the same time, to signals? For example, morse code. Equivalent tasks.

I was just diagnosed with esophobia, which prevents me from doing morse code (among other things). It is a condition triggered by intense stress (like having to process morse while typing at the same time).

Can I still do this trade? I would ask my staff, but I don't trust them, plain and simple. Been lied to enough.


----------



## agc

You should disclose any change in your medical status to your medical staff.  They are the ones that can tell you for sure.  Also, if you don't there is the possibility of being discharged in the future for not disclosing this type of information.


----------



## aesop081

freakerz said:
			
		

> but I don't trust them, plain and simple. Been lied to enough.



Based on your post, i would be seriously re-evaluating *your* trustworthiness.......i mean, if we're going to throw accusations around and all......


----------



## PuckChaser

freakerz said:
			
		

> Can I still do this trade? I would ask my staff, but I don't trust them, plain and simple. Been lied to enough.



Wow. I'm sure you'll get hammered more for the attitude, but that's just.... wow.

Now, did the CF diagnose you? If they did, the med staff is probably already initiating a med review if its warranted. If not, you're fine. However, there is a lot of times you will be transcribing things, so I'd be looking at a new trade so you can keep your health intact.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

freakerz said:
			
		

> How much is Comm Rsch about listening and processing, at the same time, to signals? For example, morse code. Equivalent tasks.
> 
> I was just diagnosed with esophobia, which prevents me from doing morse code (among other things). It is a condition triggered by intense stress (like having to process morse while typing at the same time).
> 
> Can I still do this trade? I would ask my staff, but I don't trust them, plain and simple. Been lied to enough.



How the hell does having a fear of dawn or daylight affect how you learn Morse Code. Unless you're a friggin' vampire : Go get your terms straight before you start asking for advise.

Subject: PSYCHOLOGY 
Definition: Fear of dawn or daylight (also known as Esophobia) 
Grammar: Noun   

If that's truly your phobia, the only trade option I see is 'all weather night fighter'.

The military being as small as it is, I have more of a phobia about my staff finding out I called them untrustworthy liars.


_edit = spelling_


----------



## freakerz

Guys, my staff did not respect MO's opinion, even after he called them. I had to raise my hand when the MWO said "Who doesn't want to be here", and that's when things moved.

I know people can figure out my identity. My reputation is clean as a whistle.
I had to fight with my staff for a month going to the MIR different chit because they didn't get the point that I was getting migraines from the Morse code.

Anyways, I don't want to bring this story on the forums. The course is still going on.

As for the yes, it's esophoRia, typo.

I have to go back to the MIR tomorrow, the Dr didn't make it explicit if I have to OT. The eye tech will handle that tomorrow (give me a chit for my staff to review I guess)


----------



## PuckChaser

freakerz said:
			
		

> I had to raise my hand when the MWO said "Who doesn't want to be here", and that's when things moved.



So why even post here in the first place? Its clear to me that you either have a medical condition that precludes you from being a 291er, or you just don't want to be in the trade. Fine on both accounts, the CF will find you a new trade or 3B release you.


----------



## freakerz

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> So why even post here in the first place? Its clear to me that you either have a medical condition that precludes you from being a 291er, or you just don't want to be in the trade. Fine on both accounts, the CF will find you a new trade or 3B release you.



I'm trying to confirm that such condition would preclude me from being a 291er (morse code is a specialty, as far as we've been told). I'm asking you guys since you're in the trade right now, not "been" in the trade.
I'm still... hoping... that this trade is worth it, but its training system is obviously questionable. That's what keeps pushing me to look around.

It's probably hard for you guys to get how it is as a student, you've been here, either you put up with it, or it wasn't as bad or as long to endure.
As a friend puts it, St-Jean for 4-5 months is one thing, but being treated as such for 1-4 years, it's not motivating at all.

That's another thing I can't believe, everyone around the school knows about CPGear, but nobody seems to come here. Maybe more opinions would change your minds, or make me realize it's not as bad.

On the good side, I've been fortunate so far, can't really complain about my situation beside this recent event.
And I don't want to be released, that's why I'm asking here if the trade relies around tasks similar to Morse code (listening, copying, focusing visually, all at the same time basically).
I can use a computer just fine, it's simply having to listen while I'm focus on the screen and processing a sound.

And like I said, I trust this forum so much more because it has refuted so many things we're told as recruits/unhooked.

Edit: Also, I'm not hiding my condition from my staff, they've known via MO chit and personal memo citing such chit. They know I had an appointment, etc. A lot of people know by now.. like I said.. I worked hard to be heard and understood.

Edit 2: I've told the MO during recruitment that I had this lazy eye, never been diagnosed civy... CF never prevented me from joining for it.. obviously I can work for the CF, I'm trying to figure out if I need to really invest time into a VOR.


----------



## Cadaren

You can't listen and type at the same time?  Well that precludes you from doing a a lot of things as a 291er that I can't begin to tell you here.  "Listening, copying, focusing visually, all at the same time basically" as you put is pretty much the bread and butter of our trade.  You need to get that either sorted our or starting think of another trade.


----------



## meni0n

Anyone know when they will start to load people on the next course? From what I heard they got more people than slots so I guess they will start to load pretty soon.


----------



## PuckChaser

MITE loads people 30 days before a course starts, or thats when the messages come out. If you know the next course dates, just count back 30 days, mark a x and cross your fingers.


----------



## meni0n

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll know by the end of the month.


----------



## Jeremy360

> Starting on the 26 Apr 11 at 0700 hrs. All PATs working in the CFSCE line will have a daily inspection.  This will include the leaving OUT personal.



Are the pers tasked to 21 EW and such affected by the massive PAT recall?  

It's all well and good for the other pers that are here for two months, what about the Comm Rsch that have a minimum of 18 months on PAT left?

Has anyone else received this?  It's odd that it comes a few days after I volunteer myself for a parade.  I feel that I might have shot myself in the foot.


----------



## PuckChaser

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense....


----------



## Jeremy360

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Your post doesn't make a lot of sense....



I work at CFSCE HQ and received an email through my civilian supervisor, originating from 4 Sqn stating that inspections will be every morning at 0700, effective 26 April, 2011 and apparently concerning ALL 4 Sqn personnel.

I had not seen or heard from 4 Sqn since I started working here.  I asked to be placed on the Change of Command parade coming up, for the sake of pride and drill practice.  Three days later I get ordered to inspections five days per week until further notice.

The last time they ran inspections five days per week it did little aside from shatter morale and interrupt the ability to get work done.  Sorry for not clarifying, it's just that the idea of daily inspections until my contract is done(or clearance comes through) rattled my day a bit.

I didn't want to turn it into a rant, I just wanted to see who was affected by it; namely 21 EW and other taskings around the base.  I guess you could say that I'm looking for an "out."


----------



## chrisf

I haven't seen the order, but if it says all PAT pers working in CFSCE lines, and you're not working in CFSCE lines... 

Best solution, ask your chain of command.


----------



## meni0n

All PAT and living out pers are having inspections? Is that room inspections or personal inspections?


----------



## Jeremy360

meni0n said:
			
		

> All PAT and living out pers are having inspections? Is that room inspections or personal inspections?



Sorry, I didn't want to derail the topic(if we had one), but the email is as follows:



> SSMs,
> 
> Starting on the 26 Apr 11 at 0700 hrs. All PATs working in the CFSCE line will have a daily inspection. This will include the leaving OUT personal.
> 
> Leaving IN Pers will be an open locker inspection. All lockers, kit bags and barrack boxes will be unlock. As per CFSCE SOP room inspection.
> 
> Leaving OUT Pers will be inspected in BB-6 First Floor East Wing. Daily, they will have to bring a piece of equipment to be inspected.
> 
> Week of 26 - 29 Apr:
> 
> Tuesday; DEU Ankle boots
> Wednesday; DEU shoes
> Thursday; DEU Jacket and pants
> Friday; DEU shirts (2 long sleeves and 2 short sleeves)
> 
> The only personal exempted to the inspection will be the canteen Pers. Those individual will rotate thought out the week.
> 
> Questions or concerns plse contact undersigned



I just wanted to know if the good PATs tasked to 21 EW were affected, I would assume that they're considered outside the CFSCE lines.  I had packed everything to move on the 30th, so I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow.
  
To get closer to topic, has anyone heard of progress on clearances?  I just passed two years in(raise!) with no interview of any kind, but supposedly everything is okay.  There were a few people trying to raise the issue, but I've tried to keep a low profile.


----------



## George Wallace

"Leaving OUT"?

"Leaving IN"?


Are those your typos or from the original author?


----------



## meni0n

I think it's the original author, given he just pasted the email he got.  I spotted a few typos in that email 

Confounded, send a email to the USS asking about the status of your clearance to make sure you haven't fallen thru the cracks.


----------



## Jeremy360

George Wallace said:
			
		

> "Leaving OUT"?
> 
> "Leaving IN"?
> 
> 
> Are those your typos or from the original author?



The text that I quoted in the above post is a copy and paste of the email that was forwarded to me from the MWO, minus the signature block.  



			
				meni0n said:
			
		

> I think it's the original author, given he just pasted the email he got.  I spotted a few typos in that email
> 
> Confounded, send a email to the USS asking about the status of your clearance to make sure you haven't fallen thru the cracks.



The replies that I've received from the MCpl were "processing" and "pending."  My supervisor spoke with an MWO on my behalf and he has sent another request, I was told that "no news is good news."


----------



## freakerz

That's what happens when people fuck the dog. Daily inspections were already in place, used to be a dress inspection and room on Friday.
First time in over a year and a half that they pull a daily room inspection. I was there 3 weeks ago and there was only like 15 people on PAT... what the hell did they do lol. (gonna ask ppl on pat)

When was that email sent? Because a lot of PATs were sent to Wainwright (although they apparently missed their flight today, lol).
With so few PATs, can't understand why would still go through with daily room inspections... even when people shat and pissed in fountains and door knobs they didn't do daily room inspections!


----------



## George Wallace

Confounded PAT said:
			
		

> The replies that I've received from the MCpl were "processing" and "pending."  My supervisor spoke with an MWO on my behalf and he has sent another request, I was told that "no news is good news."



Confounded PAT

Go to the Home Page of this site.  In the SEARCH box type in "Security Clearance" and read the topics.  Your answers are all there.  As a AUSS I can assure you that you still have at the minimum a year wait.  The people who do the Clearances can in a good year do approx 3,000.  Take a look around your unit, and then at the various Schools, just across the street or down the road from you in CFB (K) and count the numbers.  3,000 is the total from all across Canada, and those deployed, not just where you are.  Even after your last interview, you are looking at a six to twelve month wait.


----------



## George Wallace

freakerz said:
			
		

> ... even when people shat and pissed in fountains and door knobs they didn't do daily room inspections!



Perhaps you have answered your own question.  If you (as in your whole course/platoon/shack) can't act in a responsible way, you will face the consequences.


----------



## freakerz

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Perhaps you have answered your own question.  If you (as in your whole course/platoon/shack) can't act in a responsible way, you will face the consequences.



You should hear the stories, consequences have never been a real threat around CFSCE... it's always been slaps on the hand. (in most people's opinion, not just mine)

I should go take a look at charges for being AWOL.. see if they're going for maximum or they've been giving minimum.


----------



## Jeremy360

freakerz said:
			
		

> That's what happens when people frig the dog. Daily inspections were already in place, used to be a dress inspection and room on Friday.
> First time in over a year and a half that they pull a daily room inspection. I was there 3 weeks ago and there was only like 15 people on PAT... what the hell did they do lol. (gonna ask ppl on pat)
> 
> When was that email sent? Because a lot of PATs were sent to Wainwright (although they apparently missed their flight today, lol).
> With so few PATs, can't understand why would still go through with daily room inspections... even when people shat and pissed in fountains and door knobs they didn't do daily room inspections!



I was booked to go on the Ex in Wainwright, but was pulled because of my year-and-some worth of training in my current tasking.  My initial assumption was that it was because I had volunteered myself for the Change of Command parade coming up.  After seeing the email, I would guess that someone crapped the bunk (literally, perhaps?) something fierce in the shacks.  I can only hope that it won't last too long.  I've kept my kit in order at home and it interferes with work.  The news came down to me shortly before lunch today.

As for the clearance, I fully expect at least 18 months from the initial interview.  Apologies if they came off as stupid questions, I've been largely out of touch with 4 Sqn since my tasking began.

I'll guess I'll see you troops on Tuesday, I have to figure out which moving box my parade boots are in.   :


----------



## freakerz

Definitely ask the PAT MCpls, usually people on permanent taskings don't do inspections.
But, I've seen people on SLT do morning inspections because their first timing was 0900 and the inspection was earlier than 0730...
If you're tasking starts at 0800 or earlier, you shouldn't have to do the inspection.

P.S.: My bad for the curse word.


----------



## Jeremy360

freakerz said:
			
		

> Definitely ask the PAT MCpls, usually people on permanent taskings don't do inspections.
> But, I've seen people on SLT do morning inspections because their first timing was 0900 and the inspection was earlier than 0730...
> If you're tasking starts at 0800 or earlier, you shouldn't have to do the inspection.
> 
> P.S.: My bad for the curse word.



I start work at 0700 every morning, but I wasn't about to argue with the MWO.  I learned all about beginning a sentence with "well yes, but I..." on my phase one.  :-X

I'll politely speak up on Tuesday, but it sounds like I'll just have to work around it.  It's really strange that it begins on the 26th, yet most people that spoken with haven't heard about it.  Best of luck, I know that I was begging to go back to Meaford the last time that they ran these inspections.  If nothing came down through your CoC you're most likely in the clear.  Until they realize that a grand total of four living out people show up for the first few inspections, anyway.


----------



## PuckChaser

Confounded PAT said:
			
		

> I didn't want to turn it into a rant, I just wanted to see who was affected by it; namely 21 EW and other taskings around the base.  I guess you could say that I'm looking for an "out."



Anyone in another unit is attach posted to that unit, and cannot be called back to CFSCE unless they produce a cancel message for the attach posting which is normally only done when they are course loaded.


----------



## PeterBoy

does anyone know when the next comms research op course is running. I have my application in and am joining as a recruit school bypass because I recentally released after 6 years in the infantry. I know someone who started bmq last month who was excepted for comms research. I'm wondering if I missed the boat, or if I'm just waiting for all the recruits to finish bmq /sq etc. then ill join up with them. I've been through the recruit process and know that there is no right answer till your on your first day of course, but any insight would be nice.

also from what I've read i will be spending a lot of time on Pat. Can you live off base if your on pat. Id assume you would have to wright a memo and jump through hoops but do people do it?


----------



## BSG11

I am also currently applying for comms research, though I'm without prior service. I was told in July that they (Kitchener CFRC) haven't received any scheduling for the selection for comms research, at least up to the end of August. They assured me that if there was a sudden deadline to meet, they'd be whipping us through the application process accordingly. 

I plan to ask again at my target interview this upcoming week.


----------



## PuckChaser

Expect a 2-3 year wait to be fully QL3 qualified. You don't want to look at the next course, look at courses in 2013.


----------



## PeterBoy

2-3 years yikes lol. thanks for the heads up.  On the bright side I wont mind sitting around collecting cpl 3 pay. About the living off base while on pat, can it be done? I have a wife and kid and I don't think they would approve if I was locked down 5 days a week.

p.s. BSG keep me posted on any new news on your status or anything related to our situation.


----------



## PuckChaser

Living out is normally approved especially since you have a family. Shacks are pretty full in Kingston, they want as many as they can to live off base on PAT.


----------



## PeterBoy

Perfect. Thanks for the help.


----------



## LoKe

Appologies for the late reply.

You shouldn't have an issue putting a memo through to live off-base.  Usually for QL3 courses they want you to live in, but I've personally witnessed occasions where some were able to live out.  I imagine having a family would make you one of the exceptions.

As far as wait times, well, it's always hard to say.  I know CFSCE is not running any QL3 part 1 courses for a little while at least, as they're running two Phase 2 courses at a time.  I would think that a new course would start around the new year.  Comm Rsch is still a red trade so they're definitely looking for people.


----------



## PeterBoy

Cool thanks. Just got the call today for my medical and interview, took them a while to get my med docks out of Archives Hope now that the ball starting rolling it wont take long. But who knows, it is the army lol.


----------



## glotto99

I know the usual work schedule for comms research is shift work but I cant find any clarification on the usual shift schedule. Is it 4- 10's, rotating days, evenings, nights, with days off. etc. How does the shifting work?


----------



## chevalnoir

It depends entirely on where you work, there isn't a standard shift for all positions.


----------



## Kokanee

glotto99 said:
			
		

> I know the usual work schedule for comms research is shift work but I cant find any clarification on the usual shift schedule. Is it 4- 10's, rotating days, evenings, nights, with days off. etc. How does the shifting work?



@ The "Mothership" there is both shift and day work. The current shift schedule is 7 days on, 5 days off. The schedule rotates starting with 3 days, 2 eves, 2 mids ... then 2 days, 3 eves, 2 mids and finishes with 2 days, 2 eves, 3 mids.

Outside of operational positions/deployments or ship/overseas postings, Comm Rsch postings are standard days.


----------



## candooggle

has anyone been contacted or know when the selection for comms research is. I was merit listed when the trade still had openings and every time I call the RC they tell me the selection has not been done yet.


----------



## Deelo

I was informed today that there were three open positions for Comm Research as of November 23rd, but was unable to get any additional information with regards to selections.


----------



## blacktriangle

Those three poor souls...


----------



## Deelo

I'd love to be one of those "poor souls"... Merit listed and waiting for the call.


----------



## candooggle

No more positions. Possibly more in April. Maybe. lol


----------



## Deelo

One can only hope. Second choice is ACISS. Hopefully one of the two open up soon.  ;D


----------



## YBN3A

This is where the nonsense is, the trade is marked red, meaning you can not get out of it easy unless you sit out your contract, but then again the recruiting limits it instead of trying to fill those needed positions.
im not saying they need to do what they did with Infantry and hire more then needed and then force people out of trade, but seriously alot of people do leave because of the long wait for clearance (2 years for me) but i know alot of people who waited 3-5 years. 
but they need to hire alot more keeping in mind that some of those people will leave during the long wait.
apart from that it is a very rewarding job, and there are alot of interesting things happening.


----------



## aesop081

YBN3A said:
			
		

> they need to hire alot more keeping in mind that some of those people will leave during the long wait.



It is precisely because of that long wait that hiring more just to fill positions is hard to justify. Paying people to sit around and wait is hardly efficient use of our limited budget.


----------



## jmlane

YBN3A said:
			
		

> [...]
> but seriously alot of people do leave because of the long wait for clearance (2 years for me) but i know alot of people who waited 3-5 years.
> [...]


Do you get to do anything interesting and somewhat relevant to your trade in those 2 years of waiting for clearance, or is it plainly 2 years of waiting before you could starting training for anything trade related?


----------



## hotei

jmlane said:
			
		

> Do you get to do anything interesting and somewhat relevant to your trade in those 2 years of waiting for clearance, or is it plainly 2 years of waiting before you could starting training for anything trade related?



You are going to hear a variety of answers on this one, and as the old saying goes: your time between your initial Phase I training and your Phase II training is largely what you make of it. There are some who are more than content to sit around day-in and day-out and do very little. However, there are a plethora of different possibilities.

Many Comm Rsch PATs (personnel awaiting trg) are attach-posted to 21 Electronic Warfare Regiment in a variety of capacities. I have seen everything from people working in the training cell developing the unclassified training, to a former Sig Op reprising his role and deploying up north on Op Nannook with the infantry. There are courses available (i.e. driver wheel -- learning to drive a variety of military and civilian vehicles), and training or development opportunities. Some of these might not be readily apparent, but there are always things that need to be done, and a similarly regular lack of people to do them.

A few PATs are also attach posted to CFS Leitrim -- though this typically requires you to have family (either a wife/children or parents) in the area -- though that is not a hard-and-fast rule. In Leitrim, there have been PATs employed in the training cell -- probably one of the better opportunities as you get to maintain proficiency in a number of things that often fall by the wayside while a PAT (i.e. PWT 1/2 [weapons' trg], pistol trg, the opportunity to participate in BFT (a 13km forced ruck march), first aid and many others. Other PATs are posted to supply where they assist the supply personnel with the routine there.

Other PATs can be tasked out to a variety of other units, both in Kingston and across Canada on short-term and longer-term taskings. Port security on the coasts, working with the SOAC (which I believe stands for the Special Operations Assaulter Course -- i.e. Special Forces), or I have even seen a handful of PATs deploy with JTFX (now called the Mission Support Unit) to 29 Palms in California. There have also been people who were attach posted to other units around Kingston unrelated to Comm Rsch but this seems to be an exception and not the rule.

Another exceptional opportunity that you get as a PAT is an abundance of free time. This doesn't mean you have to sit idle. While I was in Kingston, I applied for an ILP (individualized leaning plan -- subsidized education) and attended Queen's University at night. Likewise, you can complete OPME courses (Officer Professional Military Education -- courses that help for promotion once you reach the rank of Corporal or if you choose to commission). I also know of at least one individual who applied directly to RMC, was accepted, and proceeded to finish his degree, full time. What other job gives you a benefit like that, and pays you to do it?

Also, fitness is another possibility. Again, I know of one individual who, with his free time and the consent of his chain of command started a directed running programme. He eventually went on to participate in 100+ km land races.

There are a lot of people who will extol the hardships they endured on PAT, but it really is what you make of it. There will always be less than stellar moments -- and no shortage of them -- but then again that is life in general.


----------



## Jammer

No. You likely will not be enrolled until a course is available.


----------



## jmlane

Thanks hotei. Stellar reply. Good to know that for those with initiative and ambition, there can be lots to do.


----------



## kimbrian

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Oh....you meant "Morse" code.........




That was very funny


----------



## kimbrian

meni0n said:
			
		

> Do you mean back dated to when promotion to cpl happend or cpl and ql5?
> 
> I know a guy who was finishing his 5s and he did his 3s as a cpl and he said he was getting back dated to when he finished his part 2.
> 
> Which came to about 18 months of back dated spec pay which is a pretty nice chunk of change.




woooow......


----------



## chevalnoir

Your guy is in for a rude surprise. That may have happened in the past, but no more. The time between when you get your corporals and when you finish your QL5 is counted as time towards your next IPC, but there is no lump sum back payment of spec pay.


----------



## kimbrian

IPC?  What does that stand for?


----------



## aesop081

The requirements to move from standard to specialist 1 is CPL *and* QL5. Only when both of these requirements are met, can you be paid spec 1. If you were a Cpl on your QL3, that still does not entitle you to be paid specialist 1 for that period of time.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

This is happening for folks who OT into a Spec trade and are Cpls;  after your finish your QL5, your IPC calculation in the Spec catagory is backdated to the day you entered the trade.  So if you were 2 years 2 months between your OT date and QL5 qual, well upon finishing the 5s, you would go to Spec 1, IPC 2.  The IPC is the only backdated part, there is NO 'backpay' aspect to it.

I can't remember the exact ref for it, I have it tucked away in my 'Saved' email folder at work, but I'll try to remember to post it tomorrow...


----------



## meni0n

What if you're at max IPC? From what I hear is that they are doing direct IPC jumps so if you are a Cpl 3 you just go to Spec 3 etc,


----------



## aesop081

meni0n said:
			
		

> go to Spec 3 etc,



There is no "spec 3"


----------



## Rheostatic

kimbrian said:
			
		

> IPC?  What does that stand for?


Incentive Pay Category


----------



## Eye In The Sky

meni0n said:
			
		

> What if you're at max IPC? From what I hear is that they are doing direct IPC jumps so if you are a Cpl 3 you just go to Spec 3 etc,



I'm assuming by Max IPC you mean  Cpl, Standard, IPC 4.   That is $4733.  Cpl, Spec 1, IPC Basic, is $5012.  Spec Pay Cpls ALWAYS make more than Standard Pay Cpls.

Well, IF 'what you hear' is actually what some ORs are doing, I'd be surprised AND I'd not want to be one of the folks who are potentially being overpaid.

What I described above it what should be happening;  your Spec Pay IPC is backdated to your MOC entry date/OT date after completion of your QL5 for IPC calculation if you are an OT.  

I'll post the ref tomorrow, ended up home sick today.


----------



## meni0n

From what I've been told, what they do at he OR now is after you finish your QL5s, you just do a direct jump to the Spec 1 ladder, so if you were normal IPC 2 you would be Spec 1 IPC 2.  It seems a bit wrong to me as I thought you would always jump to the nearest IPC that's comparable to your pay.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

All I know is wha the policy/email traffic I have at work states, which is what I've stated already.


----------



## kimbrian

I've got the go for CT/OT from Navres to Reg F Comm rsch.
My interview is in 2 weeks and I've started to prepare for it.

Any tips in what they'd be looking for for an eligible comm rsch?


----------



## PuckChaser

kimbrian said:
			
		

> Any tips in what they'd be looking for for an eligible comm rsch?



An already completed lobotomy and a World of Warcraft account....  >

I kid, I kid. Having a good background in computers has helped some of the operators I know, as well as signal theory.


----------



## kimbrian

Since the component transfer process takes a long time, I'm going to learn as much as possible about computer networks, signal theory, morse code, etc etc.
Though... I don't have that much back ground in terms of computers and electronics... I'm only a high school graduate (18yrs old).
Before the interview, I'll do as much research as possible and familiarize myself with that side of the world as much as I can.
Is it probably that during the interview at CFRC, they'll ask about my computer use back ground and such?
If I don't know that much about that, will I not stand a chance?  :-\


----------



## aesop081

kimbrian said:
			
		

> I don't have that much back ground in terms of computers and electronics...



If we required people to have an electronics or computer background, we would say so in the recruiting pre-requisits. I did not have any sort of background in combat engineering but was still hired as one LOL.

If you have that stuff, it's an asset.


----------



## kimbrian

give me a sigh of relief thank you lol


----------



## Robert0288

Like everything in the army, you will be taught from the ground up whether you know it already or not.  Hurray for typing classes.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Also realize that you will be required as Comm Research (regardless of DEU) to complete the BMQ-L course.

As you've read, there can be a longggggggg wait for your security clearance to process that you need for the Upclass portion of QL3 (QL3 Pt II).  

Good luck on the interview.


----------



## micah

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone could provide me with information on what exactly a Linguistic Operator is/does. I noticed it on forces.ca in the Specialty Training section under Advanced Training Courses for Comm Research. I am curious because I have a degree in Linguistics and I am very interested in this trade. 

Thanks!


----------



## PuckChaser

You learn a foreign language and then sit behind a computer and translate things.


----------



## kimbrian

I did my CT/OT interview on 26 Mar 12 and the sir says that I am very competitive and is eligible for both Reg F and Comm Rsch (what a good news).

Though, now I'm just waiting for any calls or offers and while at that, I've started up for Class B employment in the Navres so that D Mil C doesn't see me being idle and unproductive.

My question is,
how does merit listing work? What is it, how do i find out when I do get listed, and what does it mean to me in terms of my transfer?


----------



## Gbert84

Any news on selection dates for comm rsch?


----------



## bobbocool

I got a Job offer last week. I'm a recruit school bypass, so that might have had something to do with it. keep waiting, I put my paperwork in almost a year ago. When I applied for the infantry in 2003 it was almost 2 years when I received a job offer. Patience is the key. Right about the time you've forgotten you even ever applied, you'll get the call.  ???  ;D


----------



## Gbert84

Congrats on the job offer.


----------



## bobbocool

thx


----------



## Ynapt

Damn, I already did the BMQ too, and was infantry before my release. I applied online last winter for Comm Rsrch and my papers only reached my rec center (Mtl) in May and then, I only met up with a sergeant to hand in my background check forms and the original of my paperwork in early July. None of my contacts have been called and I've been told to stay put until at least September before asking for an update.

Oh well, more time with the girlfriend and to clear my student debt.  ;D

Congrats bobbocool!


----------



## kimbrian

wow. I asked for the transfer late Feb 2012 (I'm transferring from MUSCN in NAVRES to COMM RSCH in RegF Army)
I got interview March 26,
I got two emails saying "file in progress" then "no positions left. you'll hear from us April 2013"
then today I get an email saying I will be offered the position once I renew my fitness test which I will do in couple of days.

AWESOME.


----------



## Danno1

This might be a silly question but...

When you apply for Comms Research, a purple trade, you apply for the trade as a whole, all elements, and not a specific element of CR, ie Naval CR, Army CR, etc?

I applied for Comms Rsch as my top choice, and two naval trades as my second and third choices. I believe I listed naval as my element at some point in the process, because of the bottom two, however that doesn't make sense for the first choice.

Should I be worried that I will only be considered for Naval Comms Rsch? (if such a thing exists - no indication it does!)


----------



## honestyrules

All in all, it doesn't matter if you chose whatever element.
If they'll make you an offer for a particular trade and you accept it, well, you'll get the dress that comes with it.
In some trades (purple mostly), there is a ratio of people to be assigned to the different elements...


----------



## aesop081

Danno1 said:
			
		

> Should I be worried that I will only be considered for Naval Comms Rsch?



No, you are being considered for Comm Rsch. The uniform that they offer you may or may not be RCN. That was only your preference.




> (if such a thing exists - no indication it does!)



Yeah, it does. My last posting i replaced a Comm rsch that was a Navy PO1 and i have some comm rsch that were Navy DEU working with/for me. 2 of my former section members (both comm rsch) were deployed on ship.


----------



## The_Falcon

Danno1 said:
			
		

> This might be a silly question but...
> 
> When you apply for Comms Research, a purple trade, you apply for the trade as a whole, all elements, and not a specific element of CR, ie Naval CR, Army CR, etc?
> 
> I applied for Comms Rsch as my top choice, and two naval trades as my second and third choices. I believe I listed naval as my element at some point in the process, because of the bottom two, however that doesn't make sense for the first choice.
> 
> Should I be worried that I will only be considered for Naval Comms Rsch? (if such a thing exists - no indication it does!)



If you are picking a purple trade you can indicate which element is your preference, doesn't mean you will get it though.


----------



## Danno1

Just before doing the medical, the registration sheet asked for an element. I left it blank b/c Comms Rsch is purple, they asked me to clarify, and I think they checked Naval on my behalf after I explained it. It's been a while, my memory is hazy.

There is a thread on CR explaining that the uniform and the deployment don't necessarily match, ie Naval uniform posted with the army, that's fine, my only concern was that I inadvertently listed myself as ONLY willing to do naval postings, and thereby limited the spots I am a candidate for. 

If I'm considered for all elements of CR, then great  :camo:

Thanks for the clarification


----------



## Cpl_lou

Danno1 said:
			
		

> This might be a silly question but...
> 
> When you apply for Comms Research, a purple trade, you apply for the trade as a whole, all elements, and not a specific element of CR, ie Naval CR, Army CR, etc?
> 
> I applied for Comms Rsch as my top choice, and two naval trades as my second and third choices. I believe I listed naval as my element at some point in the process, because of the bottom two, however that doesn't make sense for the first choice.
> 
> Should I be worried that I will only be considered for Naval Comms Rsch? (if such a thing exists - no indication it does!)



My trade is also considered a purple trade. I chose my element but all are not as lucky. Although some of us have different DEU's, we all do the same training and all do the same job. You can be Navy and still be posted to an Army base and vice versa. Air Force element does additional Air Force training but otherwise it's all the same across the board.


----------



## Ynapt

Congrats! When I did my interview a couple weeks ago, I was told there was only 1 place left on this year's calendar  I still need to do my medical, hopefully it gets done before April.


----------



## maclawa

chaundon said:
			
		

> Ha, good luck with that.  The states side postings are avaiable once your in and trained, but ottawa or kingston and your more likely opportunities while awaiting clearance.



Lovin Augusta Georgia as we speak


----------



## Sewellda

Hello friends.

Just wanted to thank all those whom have posted in this thread as I found it to be an invaluable tool while researching the trade.
I accepted a position In Comm Research today with an Air element and will be attending BMQ on July 8th. 

While I know it is a purple trade and that it is only a uniform, I was wondering if future postings are at all determined by ones element?


----------



## PuckChaser

Sewellda said:
			
		

> I was wondering if future postings are at all determined by ones element?



Not at all.


----------



## m6

Any ideas why this trade is no longer on the recruiting site? It can still be found through Google, but is no longer listed in the Jobs section. Perhaps it's going under ACISS?  >


----------



## DAA

m6 said:
			
		

> Any ideas why this trade is no longer on the recruiting site? It can still be found through Google, but is no longer listed in the Jobs section. Perhaps it's going under ACISS?  >



Select the link from the left side of the forces.ca website titled "Browse Jobs".  For some reason when you use the link from the top with the drop downs (ie; Jobs - All Jobs), it doesn't appear.

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/communicatorresearchoperator-29

Enjoy.......


----------



## m6

DAA said:
			
		

> Select the link from the left side of the forces.ca website titled "Browse Jobs".  For some reason when you use the link from the top with the drop downs (ie; Jobs - All Jobs), it doesn't appear.
> 
> http://www.forces.ca/en/job/communicatorresearchoperator-29
> 
> Enjoy.......



Strange, it's not listed through either method for me.  ??? Hardly the end of the world, but it's odd.


----------



## DAA

m6 said:
			
		

> Strange, it's not listed through either method for me.  ??? Hardly the end of the world, but it's odd.



I just pulled the link a few minutes ago.  Try clearing your "browser" cache and then go back to the forces.ca website and try it again....


----------



## Johngalt24

Looking for some info on what the next step would be while I await clearance.  Most of these posts are outdated so thought I'd ask and see if anything has changed. 

Possible to finish my second language training, if it's not French, instead of PAT? (My second language is German)

Also, if opportunity for OJT arises, should I apply even if I don't know all of my options?


----------



## hotei

Alright,

I will preface this with the note that my info is out of date. That being said, I still have friends at the school, so I think my info is somewhat current.

Upon completion of your BMQ, AND BMQ-L you will be put on PAT (pers awaiting trg). From here, you will be loaded on taskings according to your trade. Since you are Comm Rsch you will likely see time at 21EW. That being said, while I was in PAT I ended up in a two year tasking to JSR, so experiences may vary.

Enjoy your time! You may have no substantive rank (realistically) but these are the best days of your military life. Enjoy the new experiences and awesome opportunities. My suggestions would be to try and get on Winter Warfare trg, and a field ex or two!


----------



## ColtGreenhorn

Just out of curiosity, does this trade have an officer counter-part? For examplebut there was another post/thread that dated back to 2005 for the Fire Fighter trade that said; 





			
				Cutter2001ca said:
			
		

> Yes  the fire fighter trade does have officers not too many but we do. The Canadian Forces Fire marshal isn't a fire fighter he is an engineer do figure


Is Comm Research similar, where there may be a commissioned officer in-charge from something like Signals or Intelligence or is it a high ranking NCM? I am just interested because I am going to school right now with the hopes of obtaining a degree. I find the administration/leadership component of the commissioned ranks very appealing and would just like some clarification.

Thank in advanced to any advice, comments and responses!


----------



## PuckChaser

There is no officer counterpart, you train as a Sigs O and try to get yourself posted to Letrim or 21 EW.


----------



## hotei

While there is no direct officer trade ( compare an infantryman with an INF O, an ARMD crewman with an ARMD O) Comm Rsch doesn't have a direct compliment. That being said, SIGS O and CELE O figure highly. There is also a lot of civilian interaction


----------



## ColtGreenhorn

Thank you very much for your responses! I have lots of thinking and research to do in the coming year or so.


----------



## DigitalCurrents

Has anybody from another signals trade OT'd to Comm Rsch?  I'm in ACISS-IST with a top secret clearance.  Would I end up re-doing a different QL3 for Comm Rsch?


----------



## PuckChaser

DigitalCurrents said:
			
		

> I'm in ACISS-IST with a top secret clearance.  Would I end up re-doing a different QL3 for Comm Rsch?



Yes. You're going to have a good signals theory background, but ACISS is taught very different things from Comm Rsch.


----------



## hotei

DigitalCurrents said:
			
		

> Has anybody from another signals trade OT'd to Comm Rsch?  I'm in ACISS-IST with a top secret clearance.  Would I end up re-doing a different QL3 for Comm Rsch?



I will say, again my information is out of date, however your current clearance will not necessarily help. I have known at least two people with TS clearance who waited 2+ years for a clearance. Keep in mind, that was during the heir of the Afghan Mission, and thus clearances were back logged, and I have heard it is taking much less time.

If they still perform a two-part QL3, you might (very VERY unlikely) be able to write off the UNCLASS portion, especially if you have a Linux background, math (POET?), and a few other things available to anyone on the DWAN (Trg Plan).


----------



## meni0n

I had a PLAR to write off the UNCLAS portion approved as a 5s qualified sigop. The only thing I had to do was the math pack. Training has to be only 60% similar in order for a PLAR to be approved.


----------



## jaysfan17

1. Can Communicator Research Operators get an opportunity to fly in the Air Force if the served in this branch of the military?

2. When Comms Research does their BOQT, are they taught hacking?


----------



## George Wallace

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> 1. Can Communicator Research Operators get an opportunity to fly in the Air Force if the served in this branch of the military?
> 
> 2. When Comms Research does their BOQT, are they taught hacking?



OK Hotshot.....Time for you to READ more and POST less.  You are all over the map in your posts and are giving advice in threads where you should just READ and keep quiet.


----------



## jaysfan17

George Wallace said:
			
		

> OK Hotshot.....Time for you to READ more and POST less.  You are all over the map in your posts and are giving advice in threads where you should just READ and keep quiet.



What's wrong with the advice I give? 

I'm just curious to see what these trades entail, but I'll take your advice.


----------



## George Wallace

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> What's wrong with the advice I give?



You are NOT a member of the CAF, so you should NOT be giving advice on matters related to the CAF.


----------



## jaysfan17

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You are NOT a member of the CAF, so you should NOT be giving advice on matters related to the CAF.



Ok, I didn't know that you have to be a member of the CF to give advice. I was just hoping I could use my own personal experiences to give advice to other applicants.

I apologize if I offended you.


----------



## PuckChaser

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> 1. Can Communicator Research Operators get an opportunity to fly in the Air Force if the served in this branch of the military?
> 
> 2. When Comms Research does their BOQT, are they taught hacking?



1. Maybe. If they did, it would likely be classified.

2. What the heck is BOQT? As well, any CAF Cyber Operations would be EXTREMELY classified and not tossed out on an open forum.


----------



## Avail

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> 1. Can Communicator Research Operators get an opportunity to fly in the Air Force if the served in this branch of the military?
> 
> 2. When Comms Research does their BOQT, are they taught hacking?



I can't speak to your first question, but my opinion for the latter is that hacking isn't something that can be taught. Any network or systems admin worth his salt has the skillset to "hack" a system. That buzzword gets thrown around a lot and can mean many things, so I suppose it depends on what you mean when you say it.

In short, you can learn to be an admin, and by extension you would be adept enough to "hack".

That's my  :2c: on the matter.


----------



## dapaterson

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> 1. Can Communicator Research Operators get an opportunity to fly in the Air Force if the served in this branch of the military?



Any CAF member may fly in RCAF aircraft, regardless of whether they are RCAF members.  The term "self loading cargo" is often used...



> 2. When Comms Research does their BOQT, are they taught hacking?



According to the CAF Recruiting website at: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/communicatorresearchoperator-29,



> WHAT THEY DO
> Communicator Research Operators intercept and analyze electronic transmissions, including foreign communications. They also protect Government of Canada computer networks.
> 
> A Communications Research Operator has the following responsibilities:
> 
> Collect, process, analyze and report on electromagnetic activity on radio frequency, using highly sophisticated equipment
> Manage and protect computer networks
> Ensure information technology is secure
> Use and maintain classified publications
> 
> WORKING ENVIRONMENT
> Communicator Research Operators work with extremely sensitive information in a high-security, restricted-access facility. They typically work in shifts; however, they also have frequent opportunities to work regular business hours and can be deployed around the world.
> 
> CAREER DEVELOPMENT
> The starting salary for a fully-trained Communicator Research Operator is $33,600 per year. However, after four years of military service and upon completion of the intermediate trade’s training, they may receive a salary increase to $63,300 per year. Communicator Research Operators who demonstrate the required ability, dedication and potential are selected for opportunities for career progression, promotion and advanced training.
> 
> RELATED CIVILIAN OCCUPATIONS
> Information Technology Security Consultant
> Computer Incident Response Specialist
> Intelligence Analyst
> Satellite Ground Controller



Given that they work in high security facilities with classified information, it's unlikely anyone on the internet will tell you more than what's on the CAF site - and it's likely that if they do, they are making it up as they go along.


----------



## methionine

Question guys...

What happens if you don't receive the security clearance after you have already completed BMQ and in Kingston waiting around?


----------



## PuckChaser

You won't have one by the time you finish BMQ. Even the easiest clearances to complete take quite some time. You'll sit in Kingston on BTL troop, and either get tasked out on random taskings or possible attach posted somewhere to do OJT (21 EW sometimes takes people for this).


----------



## methionine

Thanks,

Quick follow up question. What happens to those who don't receive the security clearance?


----------



## PuckChaser

methionine said:
			
		

> Thanks,
> 
> Quick follow up question. What happens to those who don't receive the security clearance?



As in found unable to obtain the required clearance? I'm willing to bet you'll either be forced to OT to another trade, or an admin review to determine whether you should even stay in the CAF.


----------



## blacktriangle

Come to the dark side PuckChaser…

 >


----------



## methionine

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> As in found unable to obtain the required clearance? I'm willing to bet you'll either be forced to OT to another trade, or an admin review to determine whether you should even stay in the CAF.



Yes, this essentially.


----------



## PuckChaser

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Come to the dark side PuckChaser…
> 
> >


You'll never take me alive!


----------



## methionine

A few questions guys,

Are there any postings for Comm Researches outside of Canada?


----------



## methionine

Hey guys,

I hear that Comms Research operators can wait a year or two for their security clearance and that in that time they do fairly meaningless work. Not sure if its true or not. I asked my recruiter about taking school courses, on my own time, during that period and he told me that one should wait until his corporals before starting some kind of education.

If I'll be sitting around cleaning trucks for a year or two seems odd that I couldn't take some classes, especially if they are related to comms research trade.

Anyone have any insight?

Thanks,


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

It's the same in most trades. It's sad but the training system is so far behind that people wait months and months to get clearances or to get put on training courses.

Keep asking through your chain of command (whomever is directly responsible for you right now).


----------



## PuckChaser

Clearances aren't the training system, it's another federal department that handles all federal clearances.

As for meaningless work, you can ask for OJT at units related to your trade, but you're not being paid to go to school while you wait. By all means get an ILP approved and upgrade your education, but don't expect that means you won't be sent on taskings because of it.


----------



## George Wallace

Having attended and taught at another School that requires a higher Security Clearance, eventually the School had to rewrite its courses to teach the material that was not security sensitive and allow for the flow of candidates to continue.  As they gained their Clearances, they could then be employed in Secure Areas and do OJT relevant to their Trade.  

Comms Research may find that difficult just by the nature of their jobs.

I am amazed that some of these backlogs holding students back, don't result in the Schools sending their people of to Crses that are secondary skills required for their Trade.  There are Driver Crses that candidates would require.  I am sure there are Basic Comms Crses that teach VP and Radio operating procedures that they could be placed on.  It is incomprehensible to me as to why candidates can not be loaded on other Crses (Other than their Trade's Core Crses.) while they wait, to get skills that they will need as Trained members in their Trades.


----------



## OldCrow

There are two issues at play with that.  First, candidates who haven't reached the Operationally Functional Point (OFP) in their trade (i.e., QL3 or DP1 qualified) simply can't take any course that requires being at OFP as a pre-requisite.  That rules out most courses with a qual code.

Of the few remaining courses they can take "pre-DP1", the most important is probably the Driver Wheeled Course...which is becoming more and more difficult to get as Whole Fleet Management and drawdowns to various wheeled fleets (like the LSVW) mens there aren't enough vehicles available to run the courses at the Divisional Trg Areas.

And of course, if the courses get pushed off on the units, they aren't going to have much space for Pre-DP1 candidates on OJT...who may not even get posted to the unit in the end.

All that being said, CFSCE does try its best to get decent OJTs for Comm Rsch candidates awaiting security clearances and also to get them Driver Wheeled or other courses (but it is becoming harder to do the latter).



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> I am amazed that some of these backlogs holding students back, don't result in the Schools sending their people of to Crses that are secondary skills required for their Trade.  There are Driver Crses that candidates would require.  I am sure there are Basic Comms Crses that teach VP and Radio operating procedures that they could be placed on.  It is incomprehensible to me as to why candidates can not be loaded on other Crses (Other than their Trade's Core Crses.) while they wait, to get skills that they will need as Trained members in their Trades.


----------



## PuckChaser

Also, 50% of the Comm Rsch trade will never use a Drv Wheeled or Basic Comms course. They go to Letrim and work in a steel box with no windows, never to see a LSVW unless they're posted to 21 EW. It would be a waste of CAF training dollars, unless the Career Manager already designated certain individuals to be posted to EW right out of the school, before they even commence training.


----------



## OldCrow

The idea that some of them will go to Leitrim and never need to drive is a bit misleading; 21 EW Regt is larger than 2 (EW) Sqn was (and still growing slowly) and the demographics of first postings has changed.  The Regt should focus its efforts on Bison (and eventually LAV6) Driver courses.  Also, no one thought about the eventuality of deployed ops when they think about Driver Wheeled courses...they aren't something that can be delivered "just in time" very easily.  Comm Rsch does need the LFC Driver Wheeled course - before they go on DP1.

Actually, the CWO/CPO1s in the Comm Rsch trade are looking at that issue, and I suspect the Comm Rsch Occupation Specification will eventually be amended to make Driver Wheeled a required course for the trade.



			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Also, 50% of the Comm Rsch trade will never use a Drv Wheeled or Basic Comms course. They go to Letrim and work in a steel box with no windows, never to see a LSVW unless they're posted to 21 EW. It would be a waste of CAF training dollars, unless the Career Manager already designated certain individuals to be posted to EW right out of the school, before they even commence training.


----------



## PuckChaser

OldCrow said:
			
		

> Actually, the CWO/CPO1s in the Comm Rsch trade are looking at that issue, and I suspect the Comm Rsch Occupation Specification will eventually be amended to make Driver Wheeled a required course for the trade.



Which is super interesting, because ACISS is looking at/will be getting rid of the Drv Wheeled pre-req for the DP1.0 courses, further downloading training to the units.

Driver wheeled would definitely be an asset, but the largest issue is that Comm Rsch DP1 training is next to useless for a new Pte at 21 EW. When you have a 50ish week training calender just to get someone ready to deploy, with absolutely 0 whitespace, then the DP1 course writ-large needs to be redone to stop them from having to dedicate massive amounts of time to learning basic equipment. Driver wheeled at 3 weeks is just a drop in the bucket.


----------



## OldCrow

Yes.  By selection and contingent on successfully completing an OUTCAN screening (and any other requirements imposed by the country sponsoring the posting).  And generally only once you reach the rank of MCpl; I can only think of a very few at the Cpl rank.



			
				methionine said:
			
		

> A few questions guys,
> 
> Are there any postings for Comm Researches outside of Canada?


----------



## OldCrow

I'm not sure that dropping LFC Dvr Wh for the ACISS trade is a done deal yet, although CFSCE has been accepting a far lower percentage of DP1 candidates having the course (out of reluctant necessity).

As for EW Trg writ large, there was a very detailed analysis of the training reqrs of the Regt at all ranks/levels done this year...so I expect changes to be proposed some time soon.


----------



## bodog

Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread it helped me decide on a shot at this career path.  I've read this thread in its entirety twice and there was another 10 page Comm Research thread that I read through as well.

I have one question and it's in regards to facial hair.

I know you must shave daily in Basic and more than likely on PAT and I think on any future deployments.  But I was wondering how strict the facial hair policy is once you get posted.  Say once I reach Cpl with QL5 and get posted at Leitrim or 21ew and start the appropriate shift work, is there any leniency on a well groomed beard?

The answer won't have any bearing on what I decide to do going forwards.


----------



## mariomike

bodog said:
			
		

> I have one question and it's in regards to facial hair.



The Shaving Superthread- All You Want and More....  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/4171.600.html
25 pages.



			
				bodog said:
			
		

> is there any leniency on a well groomed beard?



All things beard-y (regs, memos, Army/Navy) - merged  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/29581.350.html
15 pages.


----------



## PuckChaser

bodog said:
			
		

> I know you must shave daily in Basic and more than likely on PAT and I think on any future deployments.  But I was wondering how strict the facial hair policy is once you get posted.  Say once I reach Cpl with QL5 and get posted at Leitrim or 21ew and start the appropriate shift work, is there any leniency on a well groomed beard?
> 
> The answer won't have any bearing on what I decide to do going forwards.



If you're in the Army or RCAF, you're shaving everyday you report to work. If you're Navy (posted ashore and after memo approved), have weak ski n on your face, or are a Vandoo, you might get to have a beard.


----------



## bodog

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If you're in the Army or RCAF, you're shaving everyday you report to work. If you're Navy (posted ashore and after memo approved), have weak ski n on your face, or are a Vandoo, you might get to have a beard.



Based on what you just said and what I read on the other thread would this mean picking the Navy uniform for Comm Research would actually give me a facial hair benefit?  I know the uniform's have no effect on postings etc in this trade and its basically based on what boots you want to wear, I was thinking Army for combat boots but if a Navy uniform gets me facial hair I would choose that.


----------



## Andraste

I suppose you can ask for a naval uniform but it will depend on the needs of the CAF as to which element you get assigned.

Cheers

Andraste


----------



## PuckChaser

If you grow a crappy beard, you won't be allowed to keep it. You'll also get offered an element based on the needs of the CAF. If you're trying to decide based on beards and boots, you realistically have no idea what you're doing so just take what element they give you. Despite what some people at NDHQ think, the CAF is not a fashion show.


----------



## bodog

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If you grow a crappy beard, you won't be allowed to keep it. You'll also get offered an element based on the needs of the CAF. If you're trying to decide based on beards and boots, you realistically have no idea what you're doing so just take what element they give you. Despite what some people at NDHQ think, the CAF is not a fashion show.



It's not that I'm trying to decide based on beards and boots.  I want to be in the Comm Rsch trade 100% regardless if I get facial hair or not.  I'm planning on sending in my online application tonight or tomorrow and I just wanted to figure out if there is a benefit to each uniform even despite this being a purple trade.

I'm currently 28, a  clean-cut beard compliments me well.  I will gladly join the forces and do the job to the best of my ability should I be accepted, even if I have to be baby-faced for the rest of my life.  But if selecting a different element on my application sheet is going to have an effect on whether I get a chance to have a beard in the future I just wanted to find that out beforehand.

But from what it sounds like, it doesn't matter which element I apply for, they will offer me whatever they offer me?

I know this seems like trivial shit to you, believe me.  I just don't want to be 15 years down the road and kicking myself in the ass for not asking this before submitting application.


----------



## PuckChaser

Think of it this way, how do you think you're going to do in the interview if the recruiter asks you why you chose RCN as your element and you answer with "Because they're allowed to have beards, and I look better with a beard."


----------



## MedCorps

In keeping with the theme... 

A colleague of mine has a daughter who is about to start Comm Research and we were talking about the wait for security clearances and the evils of being a PAT.  

Someone else in the office mentioned a series of four tutorial books on electronic warfare by Adamy, EW 101, 102, 103 and 104 and suggested that she might benefit from working through them before her QL3 course while marking time... if nothing else then they are trade related. Having never heard of these books, I took a look and was somewhat intrigued. Obviously we can not stray into the lane of much of what is on the QL3 Comms Research, but can anyone comment on the content and if it is useful for someone like her? 

EW 101 covers:

IBasic Mathematical Concepts - dB Values and Equations. 
The Link Equation for ALL EW Functions. 
Link Issues in Practical EW Applications. 
Relations in Sherical Triangles. 
EW Applications of Spherical Trigonometry. 
Antennas - Antenna Parameters and Definitions. 
Types of Antennas. 
Parameter Tradeoffs in Parabolic Antennas.
Phased Array Antennas. 
Receivers - Crystal Video Receiver. 
IFM Receiver. 
Tuned Radio Frequency Receiver. 
Superheterodyne Receiver. 
Fixed Tuned Receiver. 
Channelized Receiver. 
Bragg Cell Receiver. 
Compressive Receiver. 
Digital Recievers. 
Receiver Systems. 
Receiver Sensitivity. 
FM Sensitivity. 
Digital Sensitivity. 
EW Processing - Processing Tasks. 
Determining Values of Parameters. 
Deinterleaving. 
Operator Interface. 
Modern Aircraft Operator Interface. 
Operator Interface in Tactical ESM Systems. 
Search - Definitions and Parametric Constraints. 
Narrowband Frequency Search Strategies. 
The Signal Environment. 
Look-Through. 
LPI Signals - Low-Probability-of Intercept Signals. 
Frequency-Hopping Signals. Chirp Signals. 
Direct-Sequence Spread-Spectrum Signals. 
Some Real-World Considerations. 
Emitter Location - The Role of Emitter Location. 
Emitter Location Geometry. 
Emitter Location Accuracy. 
Amplitude-Based Emitter Location. 
Interferometer Direction Finding. 
Interferometric DF Implementation. 
Direction Finding Using the Doppler Principle. 
Time of Arrival Emitter Location. 
Jamming - Classifications of Jamming. 
Jamming-to-Signal Ratio. 
Burn-Through. 
Cover Jamming. 
Range Deceptive Jamming. 
Inverse Gain Jamming. 
AGC Jamming. 
Velocity Gate Pull-Off. 
Deceptive Techniques Against Monopulse Radars. 
Decoys - Types of Decoys. 
RCS and Reflected Power. 
Passive Decoys. 
Active Decoys. 
Saturation Decoys. 
Seduction Decoys. 
Effective RCS Through an Engagement. 
Simulation - Definitions. 
Computer Simulation. 
Engagement Scenario Model. 
Operation Interface Simulation. 
Practical Considerations in Operator Interface Simulation.
Emulation. 
Antenna Emulation. 
Receiver Emulation. 
Threat Emulation. 
Threat Antenna-Pattern Emulation. 
Multiple-Signal Emulation. 

Quite the list of stuff... only about 1/8th of which means anything to me... 

Worth the time / effort for her to study pre-course while buying time for security clearance? 

MC


----------



## PuckChaser

Probably well worth it, understanding a signal means higher probability of intercept and better analysis. A lot of those concepts are covered on more advanced OSQs for both ACISS and Comm Rsch.


----------



## OldCrow

EW103 should be mandatory reading for anyone in any comms-related trade (they are all good, but radar and EO/IR EW is only needed by a few folks).

Of course, I actually remember plotting microwave shots by hand using nomograph paper back when I was on BSOC at CFSCE, so I might be biased in thinking that every Officer and Snr NCO ought to be able to do the same...

As far as utility goes...EW 103 will be relevant to a fairly small part of the DP1 (QL3) course, and will be overkill for that part, but it's still excellent learning that will pay off down the road.  And I think EW103 is the one that comes with the free EW slide-rule, which is just really cool...



			
				MedCorps said:
			
		

> In keeping with the theme...
> 
> A colleague of mine has a daughter who is about to start Comm Research and we were talking about the wait for security clearances and the evils of being a PAT.
> 
> Someone else in the office mentioned a series of four tutorial books on electronic warfare by Adamy, EW 101, 102, 103 and 104 and suggested that she might benefit from working through them before her QL3 course while marking time...


----------



## meni0n

My recommendation, watch office space. Pretty sure that movie is a documentary on the mothership.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

OldCrow said:
			
		

> EW103 should be mandatory reading for anyone in any comms-related trade (they are all good, but radar and EO/IR EW is only needed by a few folks).
> 
> Of course, I actually remember plotting microwave shots by hand using nomograph paper back when I was on BSOC at CFSCE, so I might be biased in thinking that every Officer and Snr NCO ought to be able to do the same...
> 
> As far as utility goes...EW 103 will be relevant to a fairly small part of the DP1 (QL3) course, and will be overkill for that part, but it's still excellent learning that will pay off down the road.  And I think EW103 is the one that comes with the free EW slide-rule, which is just really cool...



Do you have any thoughts on the value of this for AESOP?  The 101, etc.  We do BEW and then some further PD as ESM button-monkeys.  Unless we go to specific ground tours, our course options are basically BEW and AOEW at CFSAS.


----------



## OldCrow

Air Force?  You'd probably be better served by EW 101 and EW 102.  They both cover the entire spectrum of EW (pun intended), which means more Air Force-relevant material.  In particular, radar EW, comms EW conducted from airborne platforms, EO/IR and (in EW 101) the use of drones/simulators for training.

Also, once you get past BEW and AOEW, there are a couple of decent NATO EW courses at the SHAPE School in Oberammergau.  The NATO EW Ops Planner is quite good.



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Do you have any thoughts on the value of this for AESOP?  The 101, etc.  We do BEW and then some further PD as ESM button-monkeys.  Unless we go to specific ground tours, our course options are basically BEW and AOEW at CFSAS.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

tks!


----------



## hotei

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Probably well worth it, understanding a signal means higher probability of intercept and better analysis. A lot of those concepts are covered on more advanced OSQs for both ACISS and Comm Rsch.



I think an easier and better professional development stance is: if you have the opportunity to learn (especially if it is free) take it and run. Perhaps you don't use 9/10th of the EW manuals... It still means you have a grasp that exceeds the standard and are on your way to mastering the standard!


----------



## sailorprivateer

Hi guys, I have applied for this trade and I'd like to know about some stuff. Please forgive me if the questions seem redundant, but here they are:

1. What are the chances of going to Kingston for training after BMQ-L? Should I expect to be PAT platoon before I get to training? 
2. I read the *MOSID for CommsRsch*, why does it start at Cpl? So I need to get promoted to Cpl to be fully-trained? 
3. Is it true that you either get posted to Kingston or Ottawa for this trade or you can be a CommsRsrch at CFB Wainright?
4. According to trade's MOSID, this is a rotating shift. I have never been on this type of shift, so how did you guys got used to it?
5. As described by my recruiter, is this trade really like James Bond? Or more like Claire Danes on Homeland without the bipolar? 


Thanks in advance.


----------



## mapledonutmouth

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Hi guys, I have applied for this trade and I'd like to know about some stuff. Please forgive me if the questions seems redundant, but here they are:
> 
> 1. What are the chances of going to Kingston for training after BMQ-L? Should I expect to be PAT platoon before I get to training?
> 2. I read the *MOSID for CommsRsch*, why does it start at Cpl? So I need to get promoted to Cpl to be fully-trained?
> 3. Is it true that you either get posted to Kingston or Ottawa for this trade or you can be a CommsRsrch at CFB Wainright?
> 4. According to trade's MOSID, this is a rotating shift. I have never been on this type of shift, so how did you guys got used to it?
> 5. As described by my recruiter, is this trade is like James Bond? Or more like Claire Danes on Homeland?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I've been interested in applying for Comm. Research Operator as well, and here's what I know (or what I think I know).

1. I would assume you go there, after all - the Forces website says you have 45 weeks of training at CFSCE
2. I believe it's after training you get promoted to Cpl. The Forces page says a starting, fully-trained CommsRsch gets payed $49440/year
3. In the video on the Forces webpage, they say that they serve in all branches and go wherever needed.
4. Someone else can answer that
5. It is definitely a secretive trade. I mean, they have to get the highest security clearances, but I don't see how sitting in the middle of the forest intercepting radio transmissions could be "James Bond" type of work.


----------



## PuckChaser

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Hi guys, I have applied for this trade and I'd like to know about some stuff. Please forgive me if the questions seem redundant, but here they are:
> 
> 1. What are the chances of going to Kingston for training after BMQ-L? Should I expect to be PAT platoon before I get to training?
> 2. I read the *MOSID for CommsRsch*, why does it start at Cpl? So I need to get promoted to Cpl to be fully-trained?
> 3. Is it true that you either get posted to Kingston or Ottawa for this trade or you can be a CommsRsrch at CFB Wainright?
> 4. According to trade's MOSID, this is a rotating shift. I have never been on this type of shift, so how did you guys got used to it?
> 5. As described by my recruiter, is this trade really like James Bond? Or more like Claire Danes on Homeland without the bipolar?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



1. 100% unless you get another task.
2. It doesn't start at Cpl, you start at Pte. Unfortunately due to clearance delays and training length most only serve a year or 2 as a Pte until they are promoted.
3. You're not going to Wainwright unless its on exercise. Majority is Kingston, Ottawa or a small handful of OUTCAN postings or ship postings on a coast.
4. Letrim works shift, Kingston does not. Someone that's actually done the grind of Letrim shifts can explain how they dealt with it.
5. If James Bond was a computer geek who sat in a metal box all day with no windows and constant hum of equipment, its completely like James Bond.

Jordan: I'd steer clear of offering opinion unless you're in the CAF or especially in the trade. That's very easily how people get messed up expectations because its a giant game of telephone where stories get stretched.


----------



## Ludoc

Jordan Mammoliti said:
			
		

> I've been interested in applying for Comm. Research Operator as well, and here's what I know (or what I think I know).
> 
> 1. I would assume you go there, after all - the Forces website says you have 45 weeks of training at CFSCE
> 2. I believe it's after training you get promoted to Cpl. The Forces page says a starting, fully-trained CommsRsch gets payed $49440/year
> 3. In the video on the Forces webpage, they say that they serve in all branches and go wherever needed.
> 4. Someone else can answer that
> 5. It is definitely a secretive trade. I mean, technically it's part of Intel, but I don't see how sitting in the middle of the forest intercepting radio transmissions could be "James Bond" type of work.


While they work closely with the Int branch they are not part of it. Comms Research is part of the C&E branch.


----------



## sailorprivateer

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> 2. It doesn't start at Cpl, you start at Pte. Unfortunately due to clearance delays and training length most only serve a year or 2 as a Pte until they are promoted.


Thanks for your response! So when you're all fully-trained and got the clearance, you're likely to be up for promotion by then, if I got it right? 



> 4. Letrim works shift, Kingston does not. Someone that's actually done the grind of Letrim shifts can explain how they dealt with it.


I assume that you have never worked in CFS Leitrim? I was reading on other threads here that new CommsRsch members are sent there. 

I don't mind it wherever I get posted if I were to get offered for the job. But it feels like Ottawa is more expensive when it comes to renting a basement or a studio apartment compared to Kingston. Plus, a single person in his 2nd or 3rd year in the service would barely be able to afford living there, IMO. 

PS: My apologies for the late reply. I didn't get a notification for the thread response.


----------



## George Wallace

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> I don't mind it wherever I get posted if I were to get offered for the job. But it feels like Ottawa is more expensive when it comes to renting a basement or a studio apartment compared to Kingston. Plus, a single person in his 2nd or 3rd year in the service would barely be able to afford living there, IMO.



Leitrum is in the South of the city, so you can find a lot cheaper places to live, than in the heart of the city.  You can find places outside of Ottawa to the South that makes your commute easier and yet still close enough that you can get into the city when you want.


----------



## PuckChaser

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Thanks for your response! So when you're all fully-trained and got the clearance, you're likely to be up for promotion by then, if I got it right?



Corporal is minimum 3 years service, but that's an accelerated promotion, maximum is 4 years service. Your promotion depends solely on your unit, and to be a Cpl you must at least have your DP1 (first course) completed. I have a friend who had to sign a new terms of service, because it took him almost 3 years to get his clearance so he could finish the training. Cpl is a mandatory promotion, but only after those 4 years and DP1 completion. If you get it early, its a bonus not an entitlement as a few people have found out.

You'll also never be "full trained". You have career courses to do at each rank level. The only person closest to "full trained" would be a CWO who has completed all training required of that rank, as that person is now at the pinnacle of their training.

You could be sent to Letrim or 21 EW in Kingston. Realistically those are your only 2 options after finishing your first course, and who goes where depends a lot on how many each unit gets from the course, its not a 50/50 thing.


----------



## SupersonicMax

3 years to get a clearance !  That's a waste of time and money...


----------



## PuckChaser

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> 3 years to get a clearance !  That's a waste of time and money...


Normally doesn't take that long but someone didn't do their job and submit the paperwork after the member submitted it. 

I believe the average is around 1-1.5 years. Consider the ramifications of not properly vetting people who handle highly classified material on a daily basis. We can't afford another TRINTY incident.


----------



## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> SupersonicMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 years to get a clearance !  That's a waste of time and money...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally doesn't take that long but someone didn't do their job and submit the paperwork after the member submitted it.
> 
> I believe the average is around 1-1.5 years. Consider the ramifications of not properly vetting people who handle highly classified material on a daily basis. We can't afford another TRINTY incident.
Click to expand...


The other factor that many overlook is the Operational Tempo that CAF may be at at the time of submitting a request for a higher level of Clearance.  Training is at the bottom of the list when they need to get people out the door for Operations.


----------



## sailorprivateer

I know this is a 5-year old thread but I just want to ask people who are familiar with purple trade. I don't want to create a thread either.

I got an offer for Comm Rsch in the Navy and AFAIK I will not be doing BMQ-L but instead a Naval Environmental Training. My question is: if all goes right, I pass BMQ and then naval training, what's next? Farewell Esquimalt or Halifax? OR do I get to do another naval training here and there in either those places as my career progresses in the service? I just find it weird to not getting in touch with Navy after naval training.


----------



## mariomike

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> I just want to ask people who are familiar with purple trade. I don't want to create a thread either.



No need to. There already is a Purple Trade mega-thread,

For reference, perhaps,

Purple trade recruiting

will be merged into,

Purple Trades: Definition & Trg Discussion  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22558.250
11 pages.




			
				sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> I got an offer for Comm Rsch in the Navy



I believe you are familiar with this discussion,

Comm Research
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/78481/post-1473475.html#msg1473475
11 pages.



			
				sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> 1. What are the chances of going to Kingston for training after BMQ-L? Should I expect to be PAT platoon before I get to training?
> 2. I read the *MOSID for CommsRsch*, why does it start at Cpl? So I need to get promoted to Cpl to be fully-trained?
> 3. Is it true that you either get posted to Kingston or Ottawa for this trade or you can be a CommsRsrch at CFB Wainright?
> 4. According to trade's MOSID, this is a rotating shift. I have never been on this type of shift, so how did you guys got used to it?
> 5. As described by my recruiter, is this trade really like James Bond? Or more like Claire Danes on Homeland without the bipolar?





			
				sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> So when you're all fully-trained and got the clearance, you're likely to be up for promotion by then, if I got it right?
> I assume that you have never worked in CFS Leitrim? I was reading on other threads here that new CommsRsch members are sent there.
> 
> I don't mind it wherever I get posted if I were to get offered for the job. But it feels like Ottawa is more expensive when it comes to renting a basement or a studio apartment compared to Kingston. Plus, a single person in his 2nd or 3rd year in the service would barely be able to afford living there, IMO.



Communications research operator navy?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/115109.0

See also,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+purple&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=cfmoWIitMuOM8QfvkpCIAQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+comm+rsch

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## sailorprivateer

Hey guys - I got the call last month and I heading for BMQ in a couple of weeks! So they offered me a COMM RSCH in the Navy! (Yes, I was hoping to be with the NAVY)

Just a question for people in the trade with the Navy element, do you still designated to a "home port" even though this job is mostly posted in Ottawa or Kingston (or maybe that term is just some sort of a cliche for wherever you are posted)? The way I see it as a civilian is that after Naval Environmental Training, it's farewell CFB dockyards unless they send you to a ship which is unlikely for new guys according to previous posts here. I read a post here is that a Navy guy they know that they've already retired and never worked on a ship. 

I have read a post here a while back before realizing the CAF will offer me the Navy element, is that CFB Borden is also doing Naval Environmental Training, is that true? Not that it matters, but the way I see it OS's should have some sort of a dockyard exposure as part of the training. I don't know maybe CAF are doing some avante-garde training, no need to go to a dockyard or airbase to do your environmental training.


----------



## PuckChaser

From the guys I've met that were RCN Comm Rsch, they didn't do NET unless they were going to a ship posting, which is a handful of positions and hard to get.

You're going to be RCN in uniform only, which is why so many Comm Rsch folks apply for element change when they can, because your DEU colour has no bearing on what postings you get.


----------



## sailorprivateer

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> From the guys I've met that were RCN Comm Rsch, *they didn't do NET* unless they were going to a ship posting, which is a handful of positions and hard to get.


I see. This is new information to me, to be honest. Oh well... 


> You're going to be RCN in uniform only, which is why so many Comm Rsch folks apply for element change when they can, because your DEU colour has no bearing on what postings you get.


Is there a reason why they opt for an element change? For the time being, I have no plans for an element change unless it will be a disadvantage for my Comm Rsch career.


----------



## PuckChaser

Dress of the day for RCAF and CA is CADPAT. If you're RCN, its NCDs unless you're at a field unit. CADPAT is like camo pyjamas. A lot of the guys didn't like wearing the RCN DEU either, for whatever reason.


----------



## George Wallace

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Is there a reason why they opt for an element change? For the time being, I have no plans for an element change unless it will be a disadvantage for my Comm Rsch career.



Changing your Element (Uniform) will have NO AFFECT here.  You have one Career Manager; who covers all Elements.

Only way to change Career Managers is to change Trades.   [


----------



## sailorprivateer

@PuckChaser @George Wallace

Thanks for the reply guys. Hope to meet you both one day.


----------



## 211RadOp

PuckChaser is correct on the NET. However you will do BMQ-A (formerly known as BMQ-L) prior to completing your DP1. And yes even the RCN and RCAF Comm Rsch have to complete it.


----------



## Collin.t

A few more piece of info, the website is wrong about the training time, according to CFFSE website the QL3 is ~78 training days, so close to 4 months.

After the QL3(DP1 or whatever it's called nowadays) you are likely to get posted to Ottawa, you can also request to stay in Kingston to be posted to the regiment.

The navy uniform is IMO more comfortable than the CADPAD, especially if all you do is sit at a desk doing computer related work, think of it as business attire. Also massive perk, you can grow a beard !!

There are no postings to ships anymore as that was for the Destroyers (last one was decommissioned 2 weeks ago), but Comm Rsch still go on ships for deployments.


----------



## Alpheus

So I've accepted my OT offer to go Comm Rsch, going on BTL July 13th.  Just wondering what will happen next.  I am assuming I will stay at my current base until I do my phase 1, then back home until I get my clearance, back for part 2, then posting to Letrim or 21EW.

Or will I go to Kingston straight away and have to wait/OJE/OJT before and between parts 1 and 2?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I know of one guy who CTd/OTd and stayed where he was until his 3s, and another one who went to Kingston and then was APd back to his geo location until clearance and course loading message.

If you can find an OJE place at the base/wing/etc you are posted to now, that might make it easier to stay in place until you're course-loaded.  My advice, from having done an OT and having been a sponsor for OTs and people who are PATs, find a place you can be gainfully employed and make life easier for whoever your BTL Co-ordinator will be.  If you're first contact with the BTL Co-ord includes "unit/sub-unit X has indicated I could be gainfully employed there, here is MCpl/Sgt So-and-so as the POC", my experience is this makes life a lot smoother and easier.


----------



## Alpheus

Thanks for the reply.  OJE might be tricky, I'm in Edmonton, not too much EW in this neck of the woods.  What about an ILP?


----------



## PuckChaser

If you already have Secret or TS, the remainder of your clearance won't take long. You'll also have to speak to your new CoC and find out what's available for you, all the off the street rubberheads staged out of Kingston and did anything from OJT at EW to port security on the coasts.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Alpheus said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.  OJE might be tricky, I'm in Edmonton, not too much EW in this neck of the woods.  What about an ILP?


'

You won't be trade qual'd at all so OJE doesn't have to be so narrow.  You're basically looking for anything that will keep you gainfully employed - the guy I know who is waiting for clearance and course dates is at a Wing RTF (Readiness Trg Flight...IBTS stuff).  This keeps him home with his wife and means he isn't paying R & Q and doing Kingston PAT *stuff*.

If you find something that your BTL Co-ord can tell the BTL Manager "mbr is gainfully employed", it might help you avoid being pre-positioned to Kingston like Puckchaser mentions above and avoid all the stupid shit that comes along with that type of stuff.  

Anything that is IT related is good OJE.  There's got to be a Sig Sqn in Edmonton.


----------



## Ludoc

Do you want to go to 21 EW once you are qualified? If so ask about getting on a Bison course. I am pretty sure we (LdSH (RC), where I am pretty sure you are posted) will be running one shortly. Recce needs to qualify new drivers and the maintainers will need to qualify the new guys that are getting posted in this summer. 

Learning to drive an armoured vehicle while posted to an armoured unit would give you a leg up on your course mates once posted to 21 EW.

Plus the Regiment is super short of dudes. If you asked to stay around and get experience as a Bison driver while waiting to be course loaded I am sure the the Regiment would be happy to accommodate you.


----------



## sailorprivateer

Hello guys I'm back!

I got my posting message on Friday and it says I'm heading to CFSCE Kingston. Does that mean I will be on course? Me thinks it's fast considering you need a security clearance to get into the course. But anyway, that's where I'm headed the day after grad. It's hard to complain about that. lol

Assuming that I would be able to finish the course at CFSCE, do I have the option of choosing for my posting preference? Last question, how come one guy in my platoon got 00120-02 as his MOSID while the rest of Comm Rsch guys are just 01. Does education is a factor in this and is he going to get preferential treatment and get promoted faster? Not a big deal for myself, it's just nobody here knows why.


----------



## meni0n

pretty sure all the new guys are 02, once you're 5s qualified you become 01. So whoever the clerk that gave new guys 01 made a mistake.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

The -02 part means "Junior".  It means you don't get spec pay yet even as a Cpl.  That will change to -01 once you get quald QL5.  If it were me and I was not QL5 quald and had 00120-01 down for my MOSID, I'd be asking my supervisor to get an OR appointment/see the OR myself if I was permitted to do that and verify that I am NOT receiving spec pay.  Why?  Sooner or later the system WILL recover it.

You'll notice that not all MOSIDS use the -01 and -02 the same way.  In my trade (AES Op) like Comm Rsch, the -02 is used to denote *Junior* and -01 means QL5 qual.  However, other trades like AC Op and Med Tech use -02 etc to denote sub-occs/quals such as PAR Controller, PA so there is a possibility for clerks to make an honest mistake.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page


----------



## PuckChaser

You can put down posting preferences, doesn't mean you'll get what you want. You may not be going on course right away, it's likely PAT platoon. You'll have to clear in there and talk to SMP clerk to start your clearance upgrade. The VOT message does not automatically start it. If you have one, I highly recommend you bring a copy of your last clearance form, and start collecting dates for work/residences going back 10 years. It'll save you time filling out paperwork.


----------



## sailorprivateer

meni0n said:
			
		

> pretty sure all the new guys are 02, once you're 5s qualified you become 01. So whoever the clerk that gave new guys 01 made a mistake.





			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The -02 part means "Junior".  It means you don't get spec pay yet even as a Cpl.  That will change to -01 once you get quald QL5.  If it were me and I was not QL5 quald and had 00120-01 down for my MOSID, I'd be asking my supervisor to get an OR appointment/see the OR myself if I was permitted to do that and verify that I am NOT receiving spec pay.  Why?  Sooner or later the system WILL recover it.
> 
> You'll notice that not all MOSIDS use the -01 and -02 the same way.  In my trade (AES Op) like Comm Rsch, the -02 is used to denote *Junior* and -01 means QL5 qual.  However, other trades like AC Op and Med Tech use -02 etc to denote sub-occs/quals such as PAR Controller, PA so there is a possibility for clerks to make an honest mistake.
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page


I see. Thanks. I will put that on the course senior report for Monday to tell the clerk about this. There's only one Comm Rsch candidate in my platoon that has the 02 designation while the rest of us are on 01 and also says Junior. 





			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You can put down posting preferences, doesn't mean you'll get what you want. You may not be going on course right away, it's likely PAT platoon. You'll have to clear in there and talk to SMP clerk to start your clearance upgrade. The VOT message does not automatically start it. If you have one, I highly recommend you bring a copy of your last clearance form, and start collecting dates for work/residences going back 10 years. It'll save you time filling out paperwork.


I kinda want Ottawa although Kingston is not bad either. So I have to do another security clearance application again when I get to CFSCE aside from what we did here during Week 3 (I believe)? They didn't provide us a copy for that though. 

Thanks for the tips guys! Now wish me luck for Farnham! haha


----------



## Eye In The Sky

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> There's only one Comm Rsch candidate in my platoon that has the 02 designation while the rest of us are on 01 and also says Junior.



Which is why its important to verify you aren't getting spec by talking to the OR.  If they give it to you for a year, they'll want it back quicker once the error is discovered.   :2c:


----------



## 211RadOp

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> So I have to do another security clearance application again when I get to CFSCE aside from what we did here during Week 3 (I believe)? They didn't provide us a copy for that though.


If there is any other requirements for your security clearance, there is a Sgt in 4 Sqn at CFSCE that will inform you.  He looks after all clearances required by you before you go on trg.

And welcome to CFSCE and I hope you enjoy the CoC parade this week.


----------



## LoKe

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> I see. This is new information to me, to be honest. Oh well... Is there a reason why they opt for an element change? For the time being, I have no plans for an element change unless it will be a disadvantage for my Comm Rsch career.


Bit late to the party here but I'll throw in what I have.

The training across the trade is the same for all DEU (Army/Navy/Airfoce).  The uniform you wear has no bearing on courses available, deployments, postings, etc.  The only differences is what rank you're called and what your uniform looks like.  

Some RCN decide to change DEU because they simply don't like the uniform (excepting the cap, it's so dull...), others might change because of family history, or because it's Tuesday.  Be aware that a request to change DEU could go years without being approved. The requirement is to serve 5 years after your QL3 (which is roughly 8+ years in the CAF), and even then it could be denied if they're low on Navy in the trade.

But you can have a nice beard to keep you warm during that cold, dark, decade.


----------



## Proud2BCanuck

A little bit of information here: I have recently received an enrollment offer for communicator research operator (airforce) and basic starts in late October of this year.

My question is, given that this is a purple trade and can go anywhere... if I enroll within RCAF can I still be deployed on the ground with army troops in a EW mobile unit? I only ask because I am more or less curious about the scope of the deployments within this trade if we have another combat mission like Afghanistan come into play. Any information would be helpful, thanks in advance.


----------



## PuckChaser

It's a true purple trade and your uniform has no bearing on where you're employed. Keep in mind 50% of your new trade is locked in windowless boxes in Letrim, so it's a coin flip if you'll even get to 21 EW.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> It's a true purple trade and your uniform has no bearing on where you're employed. Keep in mind 50% of your new trade is locked in windowless boxes in Letrim, so it's a coin flip if you'll even get to 21 EW.



Don't worry, its balanced out with guys like me who have no problem going to Leitrim. Haha. Puck do you know if there are a lot of opportunities within the Communications Research Operator Trade that open up at CPL and above? Currently thinking of putting it as my number 1 and taking off MP and MSE OP altogether as the MP process I think is bogging down the rest of my application for re-entry.


----------



## PuckChaser

Define opportunities.

Edit: Thanks for the thread merge, didn't want to make a mess of it in my phone.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Define opportunities.
> 
> Edit: Thanks for the thread merge, didn't want to make a mess of it in my phone.



Unsure if I'm allowed to post this or get an answer to this on this forum but any opportunities to take courses to work at cansofcom, or things such as that?


----------



## meni0n

You'll have opportunities to take specialised courses, go OUTCAN (there's dozens of Cpl-MCpl positions), take language courses, deploy and if you're good enough, to work at some interesting sections. Go to Ottawa if you want the most opportunities as Kingston just won't have as many.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

meni0n said:
			
		

> You'll have opportunities to take specialised courses, go OUTCAN (there's dozens of Cpl-MCpl positions), take language courses, deploy and if you're good enough, to work at some interesting sections. Go to Ottawa if you want the most opportunities as Kingston just won't have as many.



Seen. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Proud2BCanuck

Sweet thanks for the info, just curious as there isnt much information on the trade or how it varies within a given element ; All of the guys in the forces recruiting video appear to be army and I have yet to see anyone with airforce colors in this trade. Would airforce comms guys be most likely posted to leitrim?


----------



## kratz

Leitrim is the "Home" of the trade. 

All DEU (Navy, Army, Air).

Posting, tasks ect... meet the needs if the CAF.


----------



## meni0n

Might also be due to the trade being majority Army DEUs. I think the split is something like 60 20 20, ballpark numbers.


----------



## Alpheus

I was told I was slotted for the next DP1 course starting 18th Sept, but have not heard anything.  My BTL coordinator is on leave, so having a hard time getting an answer.  
It's well past the 30 days prior mark, so is it safe to assume I'm not on it?


----------



## Collin.t

Alpheus said:
			
		

> I was told I was slotted for the next DP1 course starting 18th Sept, but have not heard anything.  My BTL coordinator is on leave, so having a hard time getting an answer.
> It's well past the 30 days prior mark, so is it safe to assume I'm not on it?



Check your private messages, also it will be dependent on your clearance level, if you have the appropriate clearance and requirements to be on the course (BMQ-L) you should be loaded. If you have both you can email the staff at the school and explain that your BTL coordinator is on leave etc etc.


----------



## Achilles97

Hi everyone. I'm a PLQ qualified corporal in the Reg Force infantry who got injured on the job. I'm about to be medically COT'd and one of the trades that intrigues me is Comms Research. I also have an interest in a few other trades, but from what info there is to be had on this forum and on the recruiting website, I am strongly thinking of putting it as my number one choice. 

Here's what I think I like about the trade: 

-- Learning about electronics, computers, and IT systems.
-- Opportunity to learn languages 
-- Opportunity to meaningfully contribute (Hours long outer cordons on brigade field ex's and locker security in garrison were hard to take) 
-- Data analysis and interpretation (I have the TIOC course and I enjoyed Int data collation; I read a lot in my spare time)

Which trade I choose depends on a few competing factors that I intend to weigh and consider carefully. Things I'm looking at:

-- What skills I can learn, how frequently I can use them in trade, and what qualifications I could take to civvie street.
-- Posting locations. (Preferably someplace in Ontario. In a place whose name doesn't end in __wawa)
-- Relative ease of promotion. I was on the cusp of becoming a Mcpl when I got hurt. I expect to work hard on my way back up, but I'm hoping Mcpl is achievable in approximately 5 years and not 8-10. 
-- Opportunity for deployments. I'd like to use my new skills overseas at least once.  

WRT Comms Research I know from reading the threads here that locations are primarily Kingston/Ottawa and getting fully qualified can take quite awhile, mostly due to security clearance (I'm already Secret qualified, and the head of security where I'm currently working just submitted a request to bump me to Top Secret. How's an infantry guy applying for that? Well, TIOC course came in handy for my current position).

So this is what I'm asking: 1. Am I a good fit for this trade? 2. Is my understanding of what this trade offers correct? 3. Can I learn useful things and still get promoted in a timely manner? 4. Are whatever electronic and computer skills relevant to the job transferable to the civilian market?
   
Other trades that I'm considering: Geo Tech, Cyber Operator, ATIS Tech, AVS Tech. 

Any and all advice or links or resources are welcome.   Thanks.


----------



## brihard

Achilles97 said:
			
		

> Hi everyone. I'm a PLQ qualified corporal in the Reg Force infantry who got injured on the job. I'm about to be medically COT'd and one of the trades that intrigues me is Comms Research. I also have an interest in a few other trades, but from what info there is to be had on this forum and on the recruiting website, I am strongly thinking of putting it as my number one choice.
> 
> Here's what I think I like about the trade:
> 
> -- Learning about electronics, computers, and IT systems.
> -- Opportunity to learn languages
> -- Opportunity to meaningfully contribute (Hours long outer cordons on brigade field ex's and locker security in garrison were hard to take)
> -- Data analysis and interpretation (I have the TIOC course and I enjoyed Int data collation; I read a lot in my spare time)
> 
> Which trade I choose depends on a few competing factors that I intend to weigh and consider carefully. Things I'm looking at:
> 
> -- What skills I can learn, how frequently I can use them in trade, and what qualifications I could take to civvie street.
> -- Posting locations. (Preferably someplace in Ontario. In a place whose name doesn't end in __wawa)
> -- Relative ease of promotion. I was on the cusp of becoming a Mcpl when I got hurt. I expect to work hard on my way back up, but I'm hoping Mcpl is achievable in approximately 5 years and not 8-10.
> -- Opportunity for deployments. I'd like to use my new skills overseas at least once.
> 
> WRT Comms Research I know from reading the threads here that locations are primarily Kingston/Ottawa and getting fully qualified can take quite awhile, mostly due to security clearance (I'm already Secret qualified, and the head of security where I'm currently working just submitted a request to bump me to Top Secret. How's an infantry guy applying for that? Well, TIOC course came in handy for my current position).
> 
> So this is what I'm asking: 1. Am I a good fit for this trade? 2. Is my understanding of what this trade offers correct? 3. Can I learn useful things and still get promoted in a timely manner? 4. Are whatever electronic and computer skills relevant to the job transferable to the civilian market?
> 
> Other trades that I'm considering: Geo Tech, Cyber Operator, ATIS Tech, AVS Tech.
> 
> Any and all advice or links or resources are welcome.   Thanks.



Regarding your last question, the 'civilian market', a good number of Comms Researchers end up hopping over to Communication Security Establishment and basically still work hand in hand in the same world. I have a couple of friends who have done exactly that. I don't know if there would be much private sector, but public sector demand for those skills seems to be high, and a lot of the jobs are in Ottawa.

There's a lot of good living near CFS Leitrim, whether you're looking for 'suburban neighbourhood' or 'rural residential' living.


----------



## Achilles97

Thanks for the response. Living in the south of Ottawa would certainly have its perks. Can you or anyone else tell me about on the job stuff?  Yeah, I know there's a lot of secret stuff that can't be discussed in public, but I'm inquiring more about what kinds of skills are used/a general sense of the routine. 

I've recently been talking to some Int ops, ATIS techs, and a couple Geo techs about various things, and when I expressed an interest in Comms Research most of them told me "You don't want to be a rubberhead. It's boring and monotonous, and the guys in that trade have weird personalities."  Now, theres a lot of smack talk and misunderstanding between trades throughout the CF, so I can put some of their perspective down to just not seeing eye-to-eye about things. But I am kind of concerned about the "monotony". All jobs have times where it's a grind, but I'm very much interested in learning skills and using my brain in whichever new trade I end up in and keeping going through the motions to the minimum. 

So anyone care to comment on your non-Comms Research colleagues opinion of you? Or give me a sense of what life on the job means without breaking OpSec.


----------



## kratz

Both my 9NR and myself have worked with Comm Resch types.

You are not going to learn much more than has been posted in this thread.


----------



## winnipegoo7

Food for thought. 
It depends what you want to do with your life. 

Comms research
Pro: it is interesting work. 
Con:Leitrim is shift work; and there aren’t a lot of directly related civilian jobs. 

I’ve worked with some geo techs. (One of whom OTed from comms research)
Pro: at MCE it is a 7 to 3 job; you get paid to attend Algonquin college in Ottawa and some go for more civilian schooling in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick later in their careers (not sure which schools or when in their careers); and there are many civilian jobs for geotechs.

Con: maybe some people wouldn’t like surveying ?


----------



## meni0n

Not all positions are shift work. Also, wouldn't one con for geo tech would be, first posting mostly likely a brigade.


----------



## Bbmoveup

Hey all, I got put on the competition list for Comm Research just before xmas and hopefully will be picked up this January selection and if not Feb. Question, what sort of deployments could one go on with this trade? I would love to take up a deployment but its not the end of the world if not. 

Also, chances of getting to Ottawa after QL3's?

Thanks in advance


----------



## PuckChaser

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> Also, chances of getting to Ottawa after QL3's?



Really good.

Deployments are few and far between right now. Don't count on going anywhere unless we stand up a large deployment like Afghanistan, unless you get a ship posting (which are also very limited).


----------



## Bbmoveup

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Really good.
> 
> Deployments are few and far between right now. Don't count on going anywhere unless we stand up a large deployment like Afghanistan, unless you get a ship posting (which are also very limited).



Ok, thanks. Right on, I am hoping for Ottawa anyway but I do know that is a ways away with the wait for security clearance after BMQ. Unless that wait is not a year or more now.


----------



## PuckChaser

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> Ok, thanks. Right on, I am hoping for Ottawa anyway but I do know that is a ways away with the wait for security clearance after BMQ. Unless that wait is not a year or more now.



There is always a long clearance wait for Comms Rsch because of the clearance required to actually do the job. You'll get part of your training done, and then wait on PAT Platoon (or be tasked somewhere) until your higher clearance is approved, then you get put on the next course.


----------



## Bbmoveup

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There is always a long clearance wait for Comms Rsch because of the clearance required to actually do the job. You'll get part of your training done, and then wait on PAT Platoon (or be tasked somewhere) until your higher clearance is approved, then you get put on the next course.



Thanks Puck. One more question, for comms when is one typically granted to go for QL5's? Two years after 3's?


----------



## meni0n

Typically within one year

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bbmoveup

Thank you, that is much quicker then I thought. 
One more question, due to there being no officer trade for comms is there a greater need for SR NCM's and faster promotions then the usual? or do they just take direction from another branch? If a pm is required to answer feel free. Thanks again in advance.


----------



## PuckChaser

Signal Officers and some CELE are responsible for leading Comm Rsch troops. Promotions are no more faster than any other trade.


----------



## sailorprivateer

meni0n said:
			
		

> Not all positions are shift work. Also, wouldn't one con for geo tech would be, first posting mostly likely a brigade.


Are there any positions at the NDHQ?


----------



## Bbmoveup

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Are there any positions at the NDHQ?



I’m off to basic March 5th for comms, I noticed your timeline. My question to you is how long did it take you for security clearance?


----------



## sailorprivateer

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> I’m off to basic March 5th for comms, I noticed your timeline. My question to you is how long did it take you for security clearance?


Still waiting...  ;D that cuz I had to do it all over again, something came up.


----------



## Bbmoveup

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Still waiting...  ;D that cuz I had to do it all over again, something came up.



oh dang that sucks. So your on PAT somewhere? I figured hopefully within the first year after basic but i see that might not be the case.


----------



## sailorprivateer

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> oh dang that sucks. So your on PAT somewhere? I figured hopefully within the first year after basic but i see that might not be the case.


Yep, I'm on a tasking tho, so it's not like I'm in a classroom doing nothing right now. But if the military wants me to get paid just to sit in a classroom, I'll do it, I don't care really.

Make sure you have a precise list of your employment and address history. Even if you only had a few days of unemployment or lived there for a few days, they need to know. Also, you don't have to put your previous work's manager or owner as a contact in your employment history. I had put the manager as the contact for that factory I used to work 10 years ago and he didn't know about me offhand and he doesn't have any list of labourers who used to work there. You can put co-workers - thank god I have them on my Facebook - cuz they only want someone who can verify your employment. If you work in a place through a temp agency, put the recruiter's number not someone from the company. Also, as for references, make sure you pick those people who are easy to get hold of. I had put a Member of Parliament, Broadway actor, and nobody picked up when guys from Ottawa called.

So yeah, I had to those all over again. Make sure you have precise list especially if you're someone who had various odd jobs along the way. Uni/College res are considered as your address too, even CFLRS!


----------



## Bbmoveup

sailorprivateer said:
			
		

> Yep, I'm on a tasking tho, so it's not like I'm in a classroom doing nothing right now. But if the military wants me to get paid just to sit in a classroom, I'll do it, I don't care really.
> 
> Make sure you have a precise list of your employment and address history. Even if you only had a few days of unemployment or lived there for a few days, they need to know. Also, you don't have to put your previous work's manager or owner as a contact in your employment history. I had put the manager as the contact for that factory I used to work 10 years ago and he didn't know about me offhand and he doesn't have any list of labourers who used to work there. You can put co-workers - thank god I have them on my Facebook - cuz they only want someone who can verify your employment. If you work in a place through a temp agency, put the recruiter's number not someone from the company. Also, as for references, make sure you pick those people who are easy to get hold of. I had put a Member of Parliament, Broadway actor, and nobody picked up when guys from Ottawa called.
> 
> So yeah, I had to those all over again. Make sure you have precise list especially if you're someone who had various odd jobs along the way. Uni/College res are considered as your address too, even CFLRS!



Oh jeeze! Yeah I have a detailed list
Of all that (past Policing application) I tended to use some generic Human Resources numbers because hothead turn over in most of the oilfield companies I worked for in Alberta. I already know I’ll run into a couple employment verification problems... a few have closed up shop etc. 

All part of it I guess, thanks for that advice though, appreciated.


----------



## Bbmoveup

For PAT do they generally send one to Kingston?


----------



## JaseSyd

Hello Everyone! 

Had my final interview 2 days ago, I was offered and accepted the position of Comms Research (21EW)! Looking forward to being part of the team! 

First parade this Thursday, first weekend 24-25. Swearing in last part of April, and BMQ May 1? for FTSE.


----------



## Bbmoveup

Any idea why comm research is now strictly army as of 2018/2019 year?


----------



## PuckChaser

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> Any idea why comm research is now strictly army as of 2018/2019 year?



Could be that there aren't any vacancies in the other element positions this year, or that someone finally realized that its stupid to have a purple trade that basically has 2 major posting areas, one as an Army unit and one in a headquarters.


----------



## Bbmoveup

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Could be that there aren't any vacancies in the other element positions this year, or that someone finally realized that its stupid to have a purple trade that basically has 2 major posting areas, one as an Army unit and one in a headquarters.



Figured as much.


----------



## LoKe

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> Any idea why comm research is now strictly army as of 2018/2019 year?


Is that just based on the recruiting page?  00120 is low on Air Force and Navy, and have been for years.  The CM won't even entertain Navy or Air Force to Army DEU changes.


----------



## 211RadOp

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> For PAT do they generally send one to Kingston?



Yes


----------



## Bbmoveup

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Yes



Thank you, I’m here now


----------



## Bbmoveup

LoKe said:
			
		

> Is that just based on the recruiting page?  00120 is low on Air Force and Navy, and have been for years.  The CM won't even entertain Navy or Air Force to Army DEU changes.



For a month it only showed army (for the new fiscal year) now its back to all three (on the website that is).


----------



## AuthenticTshirt

Applying for the AVOTP. COMM RSCH is my choice. 

Questions I have are:
- POST QL3 how does it take to start and complete everything you need for QL5A?
- What is QL5 training for COMM RSCH? OJT and a task sheet/log book to complete? A course you have to get loaded onto? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## 211RadOp

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> Applying for the AVOTP. COMM RSCH is my choice.
> 
> Questions I have are:
> - POST QL3 how does it take to start and complete everything you need for QL5A?
> - What is QL5 training for COMM RSCH? OJT and a task sheet/log book to complete? A course you have to get loaded onto?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



The Comm Rsch DP2 (QL5) is residential and will take place at CFSCE in Kingston.  It is about 2 months long.  Your Career Manager will load you on the course when/as seats become available.


----------



## Alpheus

While I am waiting to be loaded on a DP1 course, I have the opportunity to take some courses through Microsoft Total Access at globalknowledge.com  https://www.globalknowledge.com/ca-en/course/121362/microsoft-total-access-collection/
Would any of these modules in particular be useful to take?


----------



## PuckChaser

If they're free, it can't hurt. Everything is computerized, so having good computer skills even if you don't want to go into the cyber realm is always good for any Sigs trade.


----------



## 95cr

Hi,

So I just went in for my medical testing and interview. However, when I went into the interview I was notified that I had been approved for the comms research trade. I had applied for 1) FSA 2) HRA and 3) Firefighter trades so this was a complete surprise to me. The captain interviewing me suggested that I post here to see if anyone had any more insight than the minimal amount that he was able to give me. From what I was told it's a classified position and the information on the CAF website is inaccurate and/or vague. Would anyone be able to provide me some other information on this trade? For example, what would be the chances that I get foreign language training? I understand that you most likely won't be able to provide me with very detailed information, however, pretty much anything will help.

Thanks,


----------



## Brood

95cr said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> So I just went in for my medical testing and interview. However, when I went into the interview I was notified that I had been approved for the comms research trade. I had applied for 1) FSA 2) HRA and 3) Firefighter trades so this was a complete surprise to me. The captain interviewing me suggested that I post here to see if anyone had any more insight than the minimal amount that he was able to give me. From what I was told it's a classified position and the information on the CAF website is inaccurate and/or vague. Would anyone be able to provide me some other information on this trade? For example, what would be the chances that I get foreign language training? I understand that you most likely won't be able to provide me with very detailed information, however, pretty much anything will help.
> 
> Thanks,


You don't have to accept the offer.  It's a fine trade, and spec pay is great, but it's still your choice.

Don't get too excited about the classification thing.  Despite what a recruiter may tell you, you won't be James Bond.  291ers deal with the intercept and analysis of foreign communications.  That's about as specific as you're likely to get.

Foreign language training is available, but don't let that be what decides your future. While many do get the opportunity to take these courses, not all will.


----------



## PuckChaser

If you want a desk in an office with no windows inside a steel box, pick Comms Rsch. If you want a desk with the possibility of windows, pick HRA/FSA.


----------



## Rifleman62

> ....no windows inside a steel box....


 A Ship?


----------



## PuckChaser

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> A Ship?


If you're one of the 6 or so folks in the whole trade that get a ship posting, otherwise the steel box is stuck in Letrim.


----------



## Ostrozac

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If you're one of the 6 or so folks in the whole trade that get a ship posting, otherwise the steel box is stuck in Letrim.



And also 21 ELectronic Warfare Regiment in Kingston. Sometimes the steel box has 8 wheels (the EW Bison).


----------



## blacktriangle

Bisons are death traps. Go light or stay home.


----------



## TimneyTime

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If you want a desk in an office with no windows inside a steel box, pick Comms Rsch. If you want a desk with the possibility of windows, pick HRA/FSA.



I feel this isn't really a fair assessment, as once you get your LS/Cpl Spec I, the opportunities in Comms Rsch become WAY better.


----------



## 211RadOp

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> I feel this isn't really a fair assessment, as once you get your LS/Cpl Spec I, the opportunities in Comms Rsch become WAY better.



How?  LS/Cpl have the same posting opportunities as a OS/Pte/Avr.  I don't believe there are any differences until you hit MCpl/MS when you might get to CFSCE, where you work in an (almost) windowless building.

(I am not Comm Rsch but know and have worked with quite a few)


----------



## Kokanee

There are plenty of opportunities in the Comm Rsch world for people of every type. Like sitting in a windowless office environment? Go for a posting to Leitrim. Like working in a field environment, with all the benefits that entails? Go for a posting to the EW Regiment in Kingston. 

I personally was not wowed with Leitrim when I graduated from my QL3 course after two years (security clearance holdup). But I stuck it out, found aspects of it to enjoy and when I graduated from my QL5 course was able to latch onto a posting to Kingston. Being more of a field-oriented person, and coming from a signals operator background it was a much better fit for me and I thoroughly enjoyed my time at the Regiment and continue to look back on it fondly.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Kokanee said:
			
		

> There are plenty of opportunities in the Comm Rsch world for people of every type. Like sitting in a windowless office environment? Go for a posting to Leitrim. Like working in a field environment, with all the benefits that entails? Go for a posting to the EW Regiment in Kingston.



Leitrim or the EW Regt = plenty of opportunities?  

 8)


----------



## TimneyTime

211RadOp said:
			
		

> How?  LS/Cpl have the same posting opportunities as a OS/Pte/Avr.  I don't believe there are any differences until you hit MCpl/MS when you might get to CFSCE, where you work in an (almost) windowless building.
> 
> (I am not Comm Rsch but know and have worked with quite a few)



I wasn't assuming, or blowing hot air.  I was speaking factually, and with certainty.


----------



## Kokanee

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Leitrim or the EW Regt = plenty of opportunities?
> 
> 8)



There are a myriad of different jobs in Leitrim, and many more in Kingston. My point was that there is something for everyone depending on if you like a field environment or an office type environment.


----------



## TimneyTime

aussiechangover said:
			
		

> just a bit of an update, morse is needed but not everyone will require it from what i've been told it's going to be taught in house for certain people that are on shifts



If you know anything about programmatically manipulating fourier transforms, morse code becomes a thing computers should do (and there's an app for that)


----------



## TimneyTime

Kokanee said:
			
		

> There are a myriad of different jobs in Leitrim, and many more in Kingston. My point was that there is something for everyone depending on if you like a field environment or an office type environment.



My point was that Leitrim and Kingston aren't the only options.  In fact, the first thing they do when the options become available is ask you your posting preferences, and there's a laundry list of places available.  If you wanted to, you could travel to all kinds of exotic places.


----------



## blacktriangle

I think you are being a little misleading. You could also spend years rotting on shift or in a troop room with the most exotic places you visit being Wainwright or a Shawarma place.


----------



## TimneyTime

standingdown said:
			
		

> I think you are being a little misleading. You could also spend years rotting on shift or in a troop room with the most exotic places you visit being Wainwright or a Shawarma place.



That's true of any trade.  There's always a good variety of "punishment" postings available everywhere, and the CF loves shoving people in boxes they don't fit in, but you know... that's all part of playing the game.


----------



## blacktriangle

TimneyTime said:
			
		

> That's true of any trade.  There's always a good variety of "punishment" postings available everywhere, and the CF loves shoving people in boxes they don't fit in, but you know... that's all part of playing the game.



No wonder that so many with the real technical skills move onto higher paying, less BS jobs in the government realm. Games are for children.


----------



## TimneyTime

standingdown said:
			
		

> No wonder that so many with the real technical skills move onto higher paying, less BS jobs in the government realm. Games are for children.



If you thought you escaped the game by moving to a government position, you are gravely mistaken.  It's less BS in some ways, but more BS in other ways.  I think everyone knows the pitfalls associated with government jobs, so I'm not going to even touch that subject.  Most of the people I know that have gone this route become soulless drones that hate their lives, and take up heavy drinking to self medicate.

If you want to get to the point where you're experienced enough to move on to a higher paying job in the government realm, you'll still need to learn to play the game properly, unfortunately.

You could always just go to University and forget about the military, but I think that's not really what people are looking for for advice on a military forum.

You can also transfer out to civilian jobs from the military, but again, the point of a military forum is to discuss options for the military.  If you take this route, you don't get the military pension.  Most people who go this route sluff this one off, and then when they're 65 and realize they have no savings, they kind of regret it.


----------



## Kokanee

standingdown said:
			
		

> I think you are being a little misleading. You could also spend years rotting on shift or in a troop room with the most exotic places you visit being Wainwright or a Shawarma place.



No I'm absolutely not. I personally didn't like Leitrim, but I know many individuals who thrived in that environment and really enjoyed their work/shift life. Conversely, I also know many people who absolutely loved the Regt (myself included) and the field troop lifestyle.

Your criticism of "going nowhere" is more a problem of the headsheds in the CAF not really understanding how to employ tactical EW on missions. A squadron from the Regt could certainly be deployed right now to Mali doing the same highly successful things we did in Afghanistan. But instead the boys are sitting in the troop rooms. I get it, not the most glamorous life but hey you get field pay and wear pajamas every day to work so I consider that the good life.


----------



## blacktriangle

Kokanee - my comments were not directed at you. I know you know what you're talking about. You’ve lived the good and bad of the trade and military life. Much respect man.

TimneyTime - your last post tells me you either haven’t been in long enough to know what you are talking about, or you have your head in the sand. There are dozens of former Comm Rsch with varying backgrounds/op experience now happily, and gainfully employed in secure and better paying Fed jobs (and elsewhere)


----------



## TimneyTime

standingdown said:
			
		

> Kokanee - my comments were not directed at you. I know you know what your talking about. You’ve lived the good and bad of the trade and military life. Much respect man.
> 
> TimneyTime - your last post tells me you either haven’t been in long enough to know what you are talking about, or you have your head in the sand. There are dozens of former Comm Rsch with varying backgrounds/op experience now happily, and gainfully employed in secure and better paying Fed jobs (and elsewhere)



Sure there are, I don't know any.  I only know the ones that hate their lives and use alcohol to self medicate.  I should say, I know of them.  I don't invite these people over for dinner or anything, but they're on the radar.


----------



## blacktriangle

Yes, because there are no people in the CAF that self-medicate with alcohol or drugs...only once you take off the uniform, right?  :rofl:

And of course you don't invite anyone that's suffering mental health issues over for dinner, you wouldn't want to be associated with "those types", would you?


----------



## TimneyTime

standingdown said:
			
		

> Yes, because there are no people in the CAF that self-medicate with alcohol or drugs...only once you take off the uniform, right?  :rofl:
> 
> And of course you don't invite anyone that's suffering mental health issues over for dinner, you wouldn't want to be associated with "those types", would you?



LOL I didn't want to say anything on self medicating troops, but uh... it may or may not happen.

I only do it at Christmas and Easter when my family visits.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Get the topic back on track. 

And I believe the intent of standingdown's comments were missed. 

Staff


----------



## Kokanee

standingdown said:
			
		

> Kokanee - my comments were not directed at you.



my bad!


----------



## smokey pie

Anyone have an idea of where you can get posted as a commms researcher? I assume Kingston is one area? Does anyone know here youre most likely to be posted if you get in?


----------



## PuckChaser

smokey pie said:
			
		

> Anyone have an idea of where you can get posted as a commms researcher? I assume Kingston is one area? Does anyone know here youre most likely to be posted if you get in?



Kingston or Letrim (Ottawa). Small numbers end up OUTCAN in the US, but you're basically signing up to stay in Kingston or Ottawa unless you get picked for a coveted spot. They may have put the coast (Halifax/Esquimalt) postings back but those were limited in numbers when they I last saw them as well.


----------



## Brood

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Kingston or Letrim (Ottawa). Small numbers end up OUTCAN in the US, but you're basically signing up to stay in Kingston or Ottawa unless you get picked for a coveted spot. They may have put the coast (Halifax/Esquimalt) postings back but those were limited in numbers when they I last saw them as well.


Coastal positions aren't long for this world.  Soon it'll be Kingston (21EW/CFSCE), Ottawa (Leitrim/CJOC,etc), OUTCAN, a handful in Winnipeg.


----------

