# Motorcycle dress code question



## kolkim (16 Sep 2015)

I ride my bike to work and I've been told to take off all of my gear when I dismount to walk across the street from the parking lot to my building. That was fine when it was warmer, but now I'm riding to work with a helmet, a big jacket, backpack, kneepads, and gloves. Im expected to take it all off in the rain for a 30 second walk? I read the CF Dress Instructions 7-1 that says the helmet will be taken off immediately after dismounting, I don't see anything about the jacket or knee pad but I feel I wont win that battle. 

My question is, if I wear a civilian pants so the only military clothing showing is my boots, could I walk around? Might this be in a CFTO?


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Sep 2015)

Check your local Dress Instructions.  This was specifically covered in the 12 Wing DIs when I was there a few years ago.  It was a no-go there, no CADPAT could be showing.  That is not the case in the DIs at my current posting however.  Different rules, but is authorized IAW the CF Dress Instructions (local commanders being allowed to all/disallow things at their own discretion).

By 'if I wear civilian pants', you mean CADPAT north of the equator, civie stuff south of the equator, IIRC the CF Dress Instructions specifically state that civilian and military attire 'shall not be mixed' or words to that effect.

30 seconds or 30 minutes.  Same rules for everyone.


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## Strike (16 Sep 2015)

I think he means civilian pants OVER his CADPAT, then walk to the building and take everything off when he gets in.


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## kolkim (16 Sep 2015)

Strike is right, I mean wearing pants over my cadpat, and then my armored motorcycle jacket, and my helmet so the only military showing is my combat boots. Then once inside I take it all off.


Where could I find local dress instructions? I am at 4 Wing


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Sep 2015)

Try the Wing CWO page on the 4Wg DIN site.


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## DAA (16 Sep 2015)

Don't bother, this is a dead issue.  Seen it before.  You ride into work, it's no different than driving a car.  Once you park it and get out of or off it, you are expected to be in proper uniform.

Once you step away from your bike, think about it no differently than stepping out the door of your car!  And that is the way it will be viewed.


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## Occam (16 Sep 2015)

From 4 Wing Dress Policy - Wing Standing Admin Order 232

18.	Motorcycles/Bicycles. When riding to and from work, proper protective safety equipment should be worn as detailed in Ref H. When in uniform and wearing protective equipment, after dismount, personnel are to adhere to the 1-metre rule. Dismount bike, remove safety equipment and put on proper headdress. There is to be no mixing of civilian and military clothing once outside the 1-metre area around your motorcycle or bicycle.


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## DAA (17 Sep 2015)

Occam said:
			
		

> From 4 Wing Dress Policy - Wing Standing Admin Order 232
> 
> 18.	Motorcycles/Bicycles. When riding to and from work, proper protective safety equipment should be worn as detailed in Ref H. When in uniform and wearing protective equipment, after dismount, personnel are to adhere to the 1-metre rule. Dismount bike, remove safety equipment and put on proper headdress. There is to be no mixing of civilian and military clothing once outside the 1-metre area around your motorcycle or bicycle.



OMG, the "1 metre" rule!  Now that is priceless!!!!      :rofl:


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## Occam (17 Sep 2015)

C'mon, they could've called it "the cone of cycling attire".


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## PPCLI Guy (17 Sep 2015)

That kind of chicken-shit drives me crazy.  I ride...a lot.  I insist that I, and those that ride with me, wear full protective gear at all times.  Any bullshit useless small-brained dinosaur idea that makes it harder to wear full protective gear is flat out dumb.  Better alive in "mixed attire" than dead in a pristine uniform.

Fuck I hate dinosaurs.


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## Ludoc (17 Sep 2015)

COA 1:
Put your uniform in a backpack, wear civies to work, change at work.

COA 2:
Keep your uniform at work, wear civies to work, change at work.


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## Haggis (17 Sep 2015)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> That kind of chicken-crap drives me crazy.  I ride...a lot.  I insist that I, and those that ride with me, wear full protective gear at all times.  Any bullshit useless small-brained dinosaur idea that makes it harder to wear full protective gear is flat out dumb.  Better alive in "mixed attire" than dead in a pristine uniform.



But... but... but.....that's anarchy!


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## Haggis (17 Sep 2015)

Ludoc said:
			
		

> COA 1:
> Put your uniform in a backpack, wear civies to work, change at work.
> 
> COA 2:
> Keep your uniform at work, wear civies to work, change at work.



COA 3:
Park one metre from the door.


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## Strike (17 Sep 2015)

Haggis said:
			
		

> COA 3:
> Park one metre from the door.



COA 4: Wear full pants and coat that completely COVER your CAF dress so you aren't visibly mixing military and civilian dress.

Seen it at my current HQ with people wearing the big 'ole yellow pants and jackets and then taking them off in the foyer or change room.


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## kolkim (17 Sep 2015)

Strike said:
			
		

> COA 4: Wear full pants and coat that completely COVER your CAF dress so you aren't visibly mixing military and civilian dress.
> 
> Seen it at my current HQ with people wearing the big 'ole yellow pants and jackets and then taking them off in the foyer or change room.



This is what I'm interested in. Can I find a CFTO with this?


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## PMedMoe (17 Sep 2015)

kolkim said:
			
		

> This is what I'm interested in. Can I find a CFTO with this?



Pretty sure you won't find dress regs in a CFTO.....


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## kolkim (17 Sep 2015)

Right, I guess I mean something concrete in paper.

Doesn't matter though, I asked my supervisor and he shut it down. Says you cannot wear civilian attire to work so wearing a jacket and pants over cadpat wouldn't be allowed. 

Kind of dumb you have to take off all of your gear outside in the cold and rain but its the rules. I guess I'll cut riding season short.


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## Occam (17 Sep 2015)

kolkim said:
			
		

> Says you cannot wear civilian attire to work so wearing a jacket and pants over cadpat wouldn't be allowed.



I'm four years out of the loop, but is this a base thing?  I don't see any shortage of military pers coming into work in civvies and changing, and then changing back into civvies to go home.  Or is what I'm seeing an NCR thing?...

edit: typos


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## dangerboy (17 Sep 2015)

Occam said:
			
		

> I'm four years out of the loop, but is this a base thing?  I don't see any shortage of military pers coming into work in civvies and changing, and then changing back into civvies to go home.  Or what I'm seeing an NCR thing...



It not just an NCR thing, I have never been to or heard of a base that you aren't allowed to wear civilian clothes to and from work.  Very strange.


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## Loachman (17 Sep 2015)

And sometimes, when certain people over-react, we are ordered to.


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## Haggis (18 Sep 2015)

kolkim said:
			
		

> ....I asked my supervisor and he shut it down. Says you cannot wear civilian attire to work so wearing a jacket and pants over cadpat wouldn't be allowed.



Your supervisor is an idiot.


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## Good2Golf (18 Sep 2015)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Your supervisor is an idiot.



...and wrong.


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## Haggis (18 Sep 2015)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ...and wrong.



That, too.


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Sep 2015)

I know my Wing has similar rules about reporting to work in civies and PT gear.   Each element has some stupid rules and I endured more of them in green than I do in blue.

Try walking around Stadacona with the lid on your Tims coffee open.  It's a capital crime don't you know!


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Sep 2015)

Occam said:
			
		

> From 4 Wing Dress Policy - Wing Standing Admin Order 232
> 
> 18.	Motorcycles/Bicycles. When riding to and from work, proper protective safety equipment should be worn as detailed in Ref H. When in uniform and wearing protective equipment, after dismount, personnel are to adhere to the 1-metre rule. Dismount bike, remove safety equipment and put on proper headdress. There is to be no mixing of civilian and military clothing once outside the 1-metre area around your motorcycle or bicycle.



To the OP, read the last sentence again.  Have your boss read it too.  If they can't understand or disagree with it tell them to go visit the WCWO.

The order doesn't say you can't mix, it says you can't proceed to mix when you are done riding.  You wouldn't wear cadpat pants with a red windbreaker into work after getting out of your car on a rainy day.


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## smale436 (18 Sep 2015)

I've been in Cold Lake for 8 years and it's pretty clear you are not at the big 3 flying squadrons. I've worked at all of them. All summer long people I work with ride their pedal bikes from as far as Cold Lake North (15-25 kms) and change at work. Some ride their motorbikes with leather jackets mixed with visible cadpat pants. And they park their bikes 1-4 m from the hangar door (depending where that building's MC parking is) and don't necessarily strip off the leathers. Your supervisor is full of it for the most part. But personally if I rode a mc and parked where 1 AMS parks their bikes, you are 30-40 m from the 1 Hangar front door. Not worth a negative encounter in my opinion. Slightly different situation than 4 Hgr where you can almost touch the front door and your bike at the same time.


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## Strike (18 Sep 2015)

I still think that, if you're dressed head to toe in riding gear OVER your CADPAT (so said CADPAT can't be seen) then you aren't really mixing the two in the spirit of how the regulations were written and should be able to wear them into the building where you can then remove them.

And as for having to go to and from work in uniform, I have to ask where you work that they have such a stupid rule.  Was this rule in place after the shootings in Ottawa last year too?   ???


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## kolkim (21 Sep 2015)

Strike and CDNAIRFORCE, I'm working at 10 FTTS atm, back at my usual workplace in the X area they're much more lenient on things like this. Not too sure if the Ottawa shootings have anything to do with any of this.

I agree with Strike that if I'm not showing any CADPAT I should be able to take off my gear once in the building but then again this is the military and uniformity is important.


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## Kat Stevens (21 Sep 2015)

If it's concealed, it's not mixed. I used to wear a dry rider suit to work in Chilliwack in the 80s, when the army was waaay more anal about this sort of thing, and never got a sideways look.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2015)

8 wing is not the only wing you are required to show up for work in uniform.  I have had this before as a green DE Mr so I am not sure what all the groaming is about.


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## Haggis (21 Sep 2015)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> 8 wing is not the only wing you are required to show up for work in uniform.



Then I guess that reinforces the generally held belief that NDHQ is neither a base or wing or station since people show up in all manner of sports attire/civvies etc. and change while at work.  Some even shower first.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2015)

I guess the Wings that are more remotely located from big centers don't see a need for folks to blend in as much while in transit?


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## Haggis (21 Sep 2015)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I guess the Wings that are more remotely located from big centers don't see a need for folks to blend in as much while in transit?



You clearly FAIL cam and concealment when you're walking down Laurier Avenue in civvies with your DEU in a dry cleaner's bag over your shoulder and wearing a CADPAT backpack.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2015)

There's no cure for stupid?


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## Loachman (21 Sep 2015)

Haggis said:
			
		

> You clearly FAIL cam and concealment when you're walking down Laurier Avenue in civvies with your DEU in a dry cleaner's bag over your shoulder and wearing a CADPAT backpack.



I deliberately carried my uniform into and out of LFCA HQ in a clear drycleaning when it was in leased accommodation at Yonge and Finch during Henault's (cbuh) ban on us wearing uniforms in public post-2001 attacks in New York.


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## smale436 (21 Sep 2015)

kolkim said:
			
		

> Strike and CDNAIRFORCE, I'm working at 10 FTTS atm, back at my usual workplace in the X area they're much more lenient on things like this. Not too sure if the Ottawa shootings have anything to do with any of this.
> 
> I agree with Strike that if I'm not showing any CADPAT I should be able to take off my gear once in the building but then again this is the military and uniformity is important.



10FTTS. That explains it all. At times, it's the closest thing to CFSATE in Cold Lake. It has nothing to do with Ottawa. For the record in case you were not in Cold Lake when that happened, nobody was told not to wear their uniform in public. It was "highly suggested" to use discretion when you did. For example, picking up a few things at the grocery store on the way home or stopping at Tims on the way to work was acceptable. (Our work continued our daily coffee runs) Spending an hour in the store buying a cartful of groceries or going for lunch at a sit-down restaurant was not. Just do what they say until you go back to normalcy your normal place of work. motorcycle season is done soon anyhow.


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## cupper (21 Sep 2015)

Pur a request in to the base CE unit to gave a phone booth constructed in your parking lot.  :nod:


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## Pusser (22 Sep 2015)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Then I guess that reinforces the generally held belief that NDHQ is neither a base or wing or station since people show up in all manner of sports attire/civvies etc. and change while at work.  Some even shower first.



In Ottawa, I ride my bicycle to work most days (even in winter because the canal pathways are cleared).  In my last office in Ottawa, I would ride in, go upstairs to my cubicle (usually dripping and muddy), pick up my uniform in a suit bag and then leave the building to go to the closest CF gym to shower, then walk back in uniform.  At the end of the day, rather than walk back to the gym, I would simply change in my cubicle. Our cubicles had sliding doors so there was no risk of others in my office seeing anything, but anyone with binoculars in the highrise across the street would get an eyeful!


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