# Army or Navy? - A Merged Thread



## dave_conolly (27 Mar 2004)

I did a search and came up with nothing.  I have always been equally intrested in both the Navy and the Army.  I am hoping to go to BMQ this summer.  I am going as a Navy reserve, I didn‘t choose army because my parents wouldn‘t let me and I need the consent.  I am wondering if I serve a few years in the Navy and want to join the army is it possible?


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## koach (29 Mar 2004)

So your parent will not let you join the Army but they will let you join the Navy?

Once you are 17 years old, you will no longer require parental consent and it is possible to change reserve units if you want to.


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## pte anthony (29 Mar 2004)

I am just curious about their dispostion with the Army could you enlighten me please?   :soldier:


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## dave_conolly (30 Mar 2004)

I really have no clue, I guess they think I have more chance of dying?  I would rather be in the Navy (just as good) than not in the forces at all.


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## combat_medic (30 Mar 2004)

It is possible to switch, but the process is quite long and involved. When I transfered units a few years back, it took more than 18 months for them to complete the paperwork. I imagine an element transfer would take even longer.


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## Dara (31 Mar 2004)

It depends on several things.  What trade are you going to be?  If it‘s hard navy trade, you‘ll have to do probably have to do a MOC/Enviromental Transfer which would add on more time, as you would also have to go through the BPSO, plus the commands.  Just an enviromental trans shouldn‘t be too bad, depending on the headquarters.  Your navy unit would have to request a transfer from their headquarters, who would then forward the request to army headquarters, then it has to come back following the same chain.  A simple enviromental transfer in your original MOC should take no more then a month, if everybody is on the ball and follow ups are done.  Plus, the unit your transferring to would have to have a position for you to transfer into.  I was closed out from 93-96 in Halifax, NS for Admin Clk because every unit was overborne, including navy, army and air.


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## tree hugger (1 Apr 2004)

I transferred from the Navy reserve to Regular Air Force a couple of years ago.  I had no problem, things went very smoothly.  I could be one of the lucky ones though!


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## Caz (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Koach:
> [qb]Once you are 17 years old, you will no longer require parental consent and it is possible to change reserve units if you want to. [/qb]


18 is the age of majority in this country, so he‘d still need parental consent unless he‘s been emancipated.

-R.


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## canada22 (23 Jun 2005)

I am applying to the Canadian Forces and I am waiting on my last reference letter and then I am ready to submit my application. I have been down to the recruiting centre and I am interested in the Army and the Navy. I was looking to get some more info on the Navy. I would be apply for NCI OP,&Son Op. I guess its a good thing I am still waiting for my second reference, it gives me a little more time...I am interested in Combat Engineering&Sig ops in the Army. Thanks.


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## x-grunt (23 Jun 2005)

canada22 said:
			
		

> I was looking to get some more info on the Navy.



What kind of info? Easier to give you more info with specific questions. And browse the forums, lots of info there too.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Jun 2005)

canada22 said:
			
		

> I am applying to the Canadian Forces and I am waiting on my last reference letter and then I am ready to submit my application. I have been down to the recruiting centre and I am interested in the Army and the Navy. I was looking to get some more info on the Navy. I would be apply for NCI OP,&Son Op. I guess its a good thing I am still waiting for my second reference, it gives me a little more time...I am interested in Combat Engineering&Sig ops in the Army. Thanks.



Have you looked at the Recruiting site?


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## R.Hawman (10 Aug 2005)

For awhile now me and my friend have been planning enlisting right after Grade 12, so this upcoming June. We were going to go into Infantry as we thought the things we would learn would be unique and extremely valuable to us. But I now have a family friend is telling me the Navy is the way to go? Now considering I am from Saskatchewan I am extremely skeptical about this but if anyone has some solid facts on soldiering in the Naval forces and or Land forces please throw them up.

For the most part the family friend (who was in the Navy) said that if I did well on the CFAT they would try and usher me away from being Infantry as I might go to waste being in that job class.This I am not sure of as I am not recruited so there for I might like a bit of side information if things like this have ever occured. I was also told that in the Land forces you usually get sent to a poor country and never get to see the world like a Naval recruit does. How ever that may be a bonus but the main reason I wanted to join the army was the fact that they were revamping the land forces. While im only seeing the one sided story for the Navy and am slightly torn about which branch to go into I guess I'm just babbling on, any solid pointers from some recruits hopefully in both Naval and Land forces?


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## Infanteer101 (10 Aug 2005)

R.Hawman said:
			
		

> For the most part the family friend (who was in the Navy) said that if I did well on the CFAT they would try and usher me away from being Infantry as I might go to waste being in that job class.This I am not sure of as I am not recruited so there for I might like a bit of side information if things like this have ever occured. I was also told that in the Land forces you usually get sent to a poor country and never get to see the world like a Naval recruit does.



Okay...you have been here only a few minutes and I already see red flags going up in your direction. Excuse me but I'm a proud Infanteer and this going to "waste in that job" is certainly only going to get you a few swift kicks in the a** from a lot of good people here. This is a bad start buddy! What the he*l is this being sent to "poor country" crap that I'm hearing on here from you. You think you are going to be sent to "rich" countries and sip tequilas on a beach with scantily clad women all around you? Lose the attitude if you want a decent answer from someone on here. "Never get to see the world like a Naval recruit does" LOL! That was an extremely stupid thing to say...apparently Naval recruits start seeing the "world" (exotic beaches, landscapes, women etc.) while on BMQ...could one of the mods or directors set this guy's story straight plz?


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## Pieman (10 Aug 2005)

I am an applicant, so take this response for what it is worth. Start reading up on the CF. Go through the recruiting site and look around. You should pick a trade that you are interested in doing. You are probably having problems deciding because you don't know enough about the forces and the different jobs.



> For the most part the family friend (who was in the Navy) said that if I did well on the CFAT they would try and usher me away from being Infantry as I might go to waste being in that job class.


I doubt that. Infantry and every other trade need people who got a good head on their shoulders. You would only go to waste if you do not utilize your potential in your role. It all boils down to what you want to do and how much of yourself you are going to put into it. Just like everything else in life.


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## Springroll (10 Aug 2005)

Welcome!!!

PM me and I can go into great detail about the Naval side of it.
My husband's first trip to sea(he is navy) was to San Diego. He was on ship not even 2 months at that point. 

Sorry that you had to be attacked right off the bat. I did not read anything wrong with your post. 
Like I said, PM me and my husband and I will try our best to help you out.


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## x-grunt (10 Aug 2005)

Hey, stand down Infanteer101. Read the post again. He didn't say the things you claim, he says his friend in the Navy did. And as for the "seeing poor countries vs seeing the world", well, I saw bags of countries both rich and poor in my two naval deployments, so this may well be true. (Brazil is still my favourite country of all the places we went.) Mind you, we'd visit for a few days or weeks rather then stay for months. I never deployed when I was infantry but I imagine that's a unique experience too.


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## R.Hawman (10 Aug 2005)

Thank you Pieman and Springroll. As for you Infanteer, I am very sorry you read my post incredibly wrong. Sorry for your misfortune. I didn't exactly say I wanted to get hammered at every port call did I. I said that is a bonus (travelling from port to port seeing different cultures in a short span) not a nail which I want to hang my carreer. That is not saying the Navy is built around the purpose of port calls either.

Pieman thanks for that, I did take a tour but I guess a good hard staredown with html is going to be needed, and Springroll I will pm you about the Navy as any information from either branch will be much appreciated. I am just glad no one else decided to raise 'their own' red flag against a post that was about acquiring some more information.

I also just read your post x-grunt thank you. This is what I was mainly looking for. Tidbits of personal experience about their carreer in that branch.


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## Ex-Dragoon (10 Aug 2005)

IM me as I am a currently serving sailor and might be able to help you out.


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## cgyflames01 (14 Aug 2005)

For the most part the family friend (who was in the Navy) said that if I did well on the CFAT they would try and usher me away from being Infantry as I might go to waste being in that job class. waste in that job class???? I think your friend has a Navy bias.


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## R.Hawman (14 Aug 2005)

I can see that very easily now from reading up on the infantry forums. Oh well, what they want me to go into and what I am going into are two different things now so it is all taken care of.


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## jmnavy (15 Sep 2005)

I've been with the naval reserves for 2 years now as an ncm and am working on transfering to the reg force to be an af pilot.  The transfer gives you the choice of 3 trades and I know the pass rate for aircrew selection isn't something to take for granted so I've been putting a lot of thought into what I want for my other choices.  (you don't have to put 3 choices but I'm sold on the cf)

I'm just about done my degree in computer science and can't stand the idea of spending 35 years in front of a computer.  Right now I'm putting a lot of thought into being an officer for one of the combat armes trades.  I've really thrived in the leadership opportunities I've had and I love the idea of a job that pushes me to the limit in that regard.

The big hurdle in my mind right now is that I've never been around the army culture, I feel like I probably don't know what I'd be getting myself into.  I've spent a couple of years around reg and reserve navy, and around some air force.  What are some of the big differences with the army culture and way of doing things (especially with officers since that's what I'm considering)?  Thanks!


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## paracowboy (15 Sep 2005)

I'd like to suggest that only those with experience in Navy and Army roles answer this, or we're going to get the same silly "Army Rules! Navy Sux! Hooah!" stuff that clutters up other sites.
Then we get a big pissin' contest, the mods lock it down, and this dude gets no answers.

Since I have no Naval experience, I'll shut my big yap and move out smartly!


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## Joe Blow (22 Sep 2005)

I have the same questions and I just stumbled over this the other day in a used book shop:

Understanding Military Culture: A Canadian Perspective
by: Allan D. English
McGill Queen's Press 
2004

Published with a grant form the Canadian Forces Leadership Institute.  Forwards by Rear Admiral David Morse (Commander Cdn. Defence Academy) and Capt. (N) A.C. Okros (Director CF Leadership Institute)

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/077352715X/qid=1127424616/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/701-8594187-1210767

If you are into sociology it's a good read.  Deals with culture as a general topic, military culture, and sub (branch) cultures within the military.  ..So the Army, Navy, Airforce differences are touched on.  (Also a big chunk devoted to the 'Americanization' of the Canadian military - for better or worse.  ..Looking forward to that bit.)  I'm 35 pages in.


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## jmnavy (22 Sep 2005)

Thanks Joe Blow, that looks like exactly the kind of thing I was trying to find  

Anyone have some stories about things that caught them off guard about combat arms after they joined?  Things they weren't expecting, that kind of stuff?  Thanks.


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## Part-Timer (23 Sep 2005)

As a reserve army NCO working alongside Air Force and Navy NCO's and officers (both Reg and Reserve), I can state that there are significant differences between the different elements. Navy is much more "regimented" than I had thought, and their officers are often more "by the book" than the army officers. Of course, this depends to a great degree on the trade.
BTW, if you're going to ASC, you may want to consider getting some flight training if you don't fly already. It will greatly improve your chances of success.


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## Joe Blow (25 Sep 2005)

I felt like this thread was relavant to the discussion:

Mess Dinners
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34874.0.html

When I read it I felt very old ..or was it mature?    Anyway, I am way out of context sitting where I am.  Who knows, maybe i would have a hoot at one of these occasions.

[BTW, that book gets better and better.  Less about the inter-branch cultures than I was expecting (sorry if you already went out and bought it) but a great discussion of how to approach the topic of military culture.]


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## Spr.Earl (25 Sep 2005)

The only thing that chokes me is when the Navy goes off shore they get Duty Free. :blotto:
 ;D


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## armyguy62 (28 Sep 2005)

I spent 4 years as an Army Radio Technician in CFS Mill Cove, Nova Scotia (a tiny Navy receiver site with an army MACS site added ). Despite
what many will say, the Army and Navy cultures are not that different. Our (the Army guys) boots were shinier and our drill was sharper, but when it came to "doing the job" there was no real difference. In the mess there was a lot of mudslinging but it was all good natured. Army and Navy guys share a common bond in that they both spend a great deal of time away from home, which may be why everyone seemed to get on so well in Mill Cove... it was a chance to get to know our families again


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## Voltigeur (11 Jul 2006)

Hi all, 

I'm new to the forum and need some help deciding my future career in the CAF. (BTW I am a francophone and do apologize for my english)

A year and a half ago, I decided to reorient my career (graphic designer, mostly freelance) and dust off an old dream of mine, becoming an officer in the CAF. So I applied to the montreal recruiting center with those three choices as DEO : 1 - MARSS, 2 - NAVAIR and 3 - Artillery officer. Those choices reflected my interest and preference at that time.

After a long recruiting process and a lot of set backs (I won't get into that), I finally got put on the merit list. 3 days later, I got selected as Artillery Officer. Finally a light at the end of the tunnel and a place for St-Jean at the end of august. So I basically told myself, too bad for MARSS, artillery sounds fun and exciting. I should also mention that I've had previous military experience as a reservist in the Voltigeurs de Québec in 1988 to 1990 so the infantry part of artillery doesn't scare me a bit...

But a week later, I got selected for MARSS and registered for the NOAB next week !!! So I'm going to have to make a life changing decision in the next two weeks

I got some questions for you gunners :

The way I see it :

MARSS Pros :
- the sea (how can you beat the Big Blue)
- the Navy is in dire need of officers so MARSS should represent a fast-track toward advancement
- I've been navigating on dingys and small boats all my life so no problem for me there
- I will learn a trade with corresponding civilian jobs to fall back to If need be

MARSS cons :
- being away from home for a month
- being more far away from my family in Quebec than in Artillery 
- MARSS is supposedly one of the hardest courses in the CAF
- long shifts on the bridge (young officers are looking at 12-16 hours work shifts)

Artillery Officer Pros :
- the CAF seems to be in more dire need for artillery officers but I can't expect to make more than captain in quite some time as there seem to be a bottleneck (from what I gathered on this forum) for a promotion to major
- my past infantry experience will help me more in Artillery than the Navy
- the school is based in New-Brunswick, not that far away from my family in Quebec City. The Navy will send me to Esquimalt
- a possibility of being posted in Valcartier in 3-4 years after my courses
- a more reasonable life than the Navy, (I mean it's closer to a civilian life)
- the working days seem to be shorter and easier to cope with
- at the risk of being branded a macho, the big guns are so cool !

Cons :
- no related civilian jobs
- no previous experience nor artillery knowledge
- I'm 36 years old and it sounds like a more physical job

Please, tell me if my assessment is correct/incorrect and give me some more info on life as an Artillery Officer.

Another question : I would like to go for the 20 years maximum career, so MARSS or ART ?

Thanks a lot for your answers

Note to mediator : please feel free to direct this topic to another part of the forum if this one is not the right one


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## kitrad1 (11 Jul 2006)

You are fortunate in that you will have an opportunity to attend NOAB. This should give you a very good assessment of whether or not you want the Navy and vice versa. That said, your assessment, in my opinion is a bit of track. Time spent away (whether on deployments, exercises, courses, etc) is tough to gauge for any occupation, as there are too many variables involved.
  Long shifts on duty are also the norm in the Artillery; not to mention living in field conditions etc, etc. Certainly, with your Infantry background, you would have some indication of what it might be like.
No one should tell you what occupation to pick. However, I would suggest that you attend NOAB and, in the meantime, ask CFRC Mtl to hook you up with an Arty Officer. In the meantime, you should prepare a number of well thought out questions which you would like answered (for both occupations).
Both have some definite pros and cons (every occupation does). Good luck with the research and have fun at NOAB, it should be an eye opening experience.


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## navymich (11 Jul 2006)

I was under the impression that even if you are selected for MARS, it is only a conditional offer until after you get through NOAB, and that NOAB is mandatory.

I concur with kitrad1 on NOAB though, it is a great experience.  I have only seen it from the other side; we have the recruits and their mentors onboard for a daysail, and it is very interesting (and refreshing) to see people so gung-ho.  They ask many questions, and soak up everything that is going on.  There are some that are honest with themselves afterwards too, and realize that MARS is definitely not for them.

Best of luck with whichever way you decided.


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## private_nobody_yet (22 Nov 2007)

My name is Sylvain.
My next step is to do my PT… (Finally!)
I am joining as reserve 861. I am at a cross road
Whether I should join the Army or Navy. I have 
Never been onto a ship, just the summer small boat.
Could someone explain what is the difference being in the Navy?
(Besides one is Land & Navy is on Sea…) on the training way, and
Way of living while on service.  And since all the action is on the ground
In Afghanistan. How does the Navy play a role in all this?

Thanks.



(my Apology if this sounds like a stupid question)


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 Nov 2007)

You eat better in the Navy.


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## navymich (22 Nov 2007)

861 Cook is known as a "purple" trade.  What this means is that no matter what colour uniform you wear, you can serve in any of the 3 elements.  So even if you pick Army, your chances of serving at sea on a ship are great.  Also, be aware, that you can make your preference known, but there is also a good chance that you will be told which element you will be going to.


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## kratz (22 Nov 2007)

From personal experience, if you are looking for full-time contracts? I transfered to the Naval Reserve. Yes, cooks are purple trades and the media is showing all the action on the ground, but the ship's crews need to eat.


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## aesop081 (22 Nov 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> 861 Cook is known as a "purple" trade.  What this means is that no matter what colour uniform you wear, you can serve in any of the 3 elements.  So even if you pick Army, your chances of serving at sea on a ship are great.  Also, be aware, that you can make your preference known, but there is also a good chance that you will be told which element you will be going to.



If hes going reserves, he pretty much gets to pick his unit and thus his uniform.




> And since all the action is on the ground
> In Afghanistan. How does the Navy play a role in all this?



 :

*ALL* the action is not on the ground.  Indeed the fighting part that you see on TV is certainly on the ground, the Navy and AF have their own operations elsewhere in the world.


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 Nov 2007)

There are Navy clearence divers in the mud in A Stan.  So I guess you could say that they have pers on the water somewhere and pers on the ground with the Army.


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## navymich (22 Nov 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> If hes going reserves, he pretty much gets to pick his unit and thus his uniform.



oops, missed that part of his post, thanks.

private_nobody_yet: your profile doesn't say where you are at.  Since you are trying to decide between army and navy, I would assume that there is both available in your location?  And as Kratz mentioned, are you looking for a full-time contract?  If you join the Naval Reserves but are in school or working elsewhere, you won't get much time away on a ship anyway.  But there are chances at a long term contract once you are qualified, on an MCDV in Halifax or Esquimalt.  There is also other training for you to do prior to going on a ship.  If you search for "NETP" you can find some more information.


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## medaid (22 Nov 2007)

There's been a few Bos'ns on the ground in the box, along with a few Navy IntOs... the Navy does go places where the Army goes, not as often but if you're in a purple trade the likelihood is good.


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## Neill McKay (22 Nov 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> There's been a few Bos'ns on the ground in the box



Any idea what they're doing?


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## geo (23 Nov 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> 861 Cook is known as a "purple" trade.  What this means is that no matter what colour uniform you wear, you can serve in any of the 3 elements.  So even if you pick Army, your chances of serving at sea on a ship are great.  Also, be aware, that you can make your preference known, but there is also a good chance that you will be told which element you will be going to.



Mich...
The fella is joining the reserves - though the trade can work in all three elements, as a class A reservist, he'll either be working out of a field kitchen or a galley.

Army - most service battalions have a kitchen where you will have the oportunity to train BUT, the challenge is working out of a field kitchen & creating something out of nothing.... the something preferably being edible.

Navy - most stone frigates have their own galley where you will have the oportunity to train BUT, the challenge is working out of a ship's galley that is tossing and turning while you try to prepare something - the something preferably being edible.


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## private_nobody_yet (23 Nov 2007)

I'm not putting anything or anybody down,
I'll stick with what ever "elements" I'm asked to do.
thanks for all the feedback .


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## navymich (23 Nov 2007)

private_nobody_yet said:
			
		

> I was referring to this post:
> 
> private_nobody_yet: your profile doesn't say where you are at.  Since you are trying to decide between army and navy,
> I would assume that there is both available in your location?
> ...



I realize the post that you were referring to and the answer that you gave to it as to your location.  However, my response "and..?" was in question to the fact that you had made up your mind.  You started off this thread with a situation army vs navy and now you've come up with a decision.  I am sure that there are some out there that would like to know the outcome of your decision and how you came to it.  It could prove helpful and answer other peoples questions if they find themselves in the same position.  I don't see at all how that made my comment "undesirable".


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## TheHead (24 Nov 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> If hes going reserves, he pretty much gets to pick his unit and thus his uniform.
> 
> 
> :
> ...



Correct but those Operations have never seen Combat.... by  Action I'm guessing he means Combat.   

 :


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## axeman (24 Nov 2007)

the Navy while not seemingly actively engaged the way the army is in Afghanistan is doing a fair share of work. while the HMCS Ottawa was in the gulf therewas numberous boardings and  did a rescue of 10 sailors as there ship sank beneath them.


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## TheHead (24 Nov 2007)

axeman said:
			
		

> the Navy while not seemingly actively engaged the way the army is in Afghanistan is doing a fair share of work. while the HMCS Ottawa was in the gulf therewas numberous boardings and  did a rescue of 10 sailors as there ship sank beneath them.



I would never take away from the great things the Navy and Army do for us.


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## aesop081 (24 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Correct but those Operations have never seen Combat....



Were you on any of them ?

If your answer is "no" then i have to ask .....how would you know ?


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## TheHead (25 Nov 2007)

Common Knowledge.....    It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know the Canadian AirForce as an entity does not do any combat in Afghanistan.  They do great things there don't get me wrong.


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## Sub_Guy (25 Nov 2007)

Personally I have no idea what the AF is doing over there.  However if they are involved in any sort of tactical resupply missions to various positions wouldn't that be considered a combat mission?  Or does the loadie have to take out some Hadji with an apple from his box lunch, to be considered involved in combat?


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## aesop081 (25 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Common Knowledge.....    It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know the Canadian AirForce as an entity does not do any combat in Afghanistan.  They do great things there don't get me wrong.



So of course, since its common Knowledge, an infantry corporal such as yourself gets told absolutely everything right ?

What do you think "combat" involves for Tactical airlift crews ?

And who said it had to involve Afghanistan ?

Could there not be other things going on in the world ?


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## axeman (25 Nov 2007)

He jumps and shoots from the center line and WHOOSH     ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  it goes in nothing but net 3 points


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## TheHead (25 Nov 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So of course, since its common Knowledge, an infantry corporal such as yourself gets told absolutely everything right ?
> 
> What do you think "combat" involves for Tactical airlift crews ?
> 
> ...



Well CDN Aviator educate me than.  When is the last time the Airforce engaged an Enemy combatant?


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## navymich (25 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Well CDN Aviator educate me than.  When is the last time the Airforce engaged an Enemy combatant?



I'm sure there are many answers to that question, but one word comes to mind right away....OPSEC!


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## aesop081 (25 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Well CDN Aviator educate me than.  When is the last time the Airforce engaged an Enemy combatant?



I have no idea......they dont tell me everything either.  And if i knew and it hadnt been on the pages of the maple leaf or on TV, do you honestly think i would say it here ? The last time that i KNOW of was 1999 over Kosovo and Serbia.....You might remember that.

Now.....as i asked before :



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So of course, since its common Knowledge, an infantry corporal such as yourself gets told absolutely everything right ?



So, do your bosses tell you things that are well above you pay grade and outside of your need to know ?



> What do you think "combat" involves for Tactical airlift crews ?



You still havent answered that one.......I'm waiting. TAL aircrews are doing low-level para-drops in order to supply you guys on the ground.  If it involves having to turn on things like CMDS, DEWS, MAWS and DIRCM, i would certainly call it combat.



> And who said it had to involve Afghanistan ?



Your prespective reflects your rank and experience. Afghanistan is a major portion of what is consuming the CF but it is hardly all that is going on. I have never been over there, yet i remain extreamly busy.

So Mr. TheHead........


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## Shamrock (25 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Well CDN Aviator educate me than.  When is the last time the Airforce engaged an Enemy combatant?



From firsthand experience, I can confirm the Candian air force has engaged the enemy, has brought the army to the enemy, has brought the army from the enemy, and has brought the army mission essential kit to ensure the conflict can continue.


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## TheHead (26 Nov 2007)

*So, do your bosses tell you things that are well above you pay grade and outside of your need to know ?

*

No of course not I would never expect them too.  I would though like to be more informed on in the NAVY and Airforce are engaging the enemy. 

*You still havent answered that one.......I'm waiting. TAL aircrews are doing low-level para-drops in order to supply you guys on the ground.  If it involves having to turn on things like CMDS, DEWS, MAWS and DIRCM, i would certainly call it combat.*

Flying into a combat zone doesn't mean you're "In Combat".  If I go on Combat Operations but never shoot my weapon or get shot at am I  "In Combat".  No....
Are TAL Aircrews doing low-level para-drops to supply Combat Arms troops?  Because during my ROTO they never did ONCE.  It was all flown in from American Chinooks. 

*Your prespective reflects your rank and experience. Afghanistan is a major portion of what is consuming the CF but it is hardly all that is going on. I have never been over there, yet i remain extreamly busy.*

My rank and experience have nothing too do with this, I have experienced more in 4 years in the army than some do in 20 years.  

* And if i knew and it hadnt been on the pages of the maple leaf or on TV, do you honestly think i would say it here ?*

Why wouldn't you unless it was OPSEC?  A lot of the firefights I was involved in were never reported on TV/Maple Leaf or were pushed to the back pages.


*From firsthand experience, I can confirm the Candian air force has engaged the enemy, has brought the army to the enemy, has brought the army from the enemy, and has brought the army mission essential kit to ensure the conflict can continue.*

Quite possibly things may have changed from my tour.   On my tour the AirForce flew us into KAF and flew us out.  We were always dropped in by American Chinook or American Blackhawk.
Shamrock when did they engage the enemy?  I know they have I know about Kosovo but when in recent history have they? 

I'm not belittling the Airforce at all they do amazing things please inform me of this though if I'm wrong.


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## Neill McKay (26 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> Flying into a combat zone doesn't mean you're "In Combat".  If I go on Combat Operations but never shoot my weapon or get shot at am I  "In Combat".  No....



It looks as though the main problem here is a differing definition for the term "in combat".


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## George Wallace (26 Nov 2007)

Yes.  It seems that some think that Combat is a "Two Way Range".


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## Nfld Sapper (26 Nov 2007)

TheHead said:
			
		

> *So, do your bosses tell you things that are well above you pay grade and outside of your need to know ?
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Ok your profile stats ROTO 1 maybe you should talk to the guys from ROTO 2-4 they might be able to shed some more light on what the Navy and Air Force are doing now.

My 2 cents worth, take them for what they are worth.


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## navymich (26 Nov 2007)

Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> My 2 cents worth, take them for what they are worth.



With the rate of the dollar now...  


Maybe we should change the title of this thread.  Navy vs Army vs Air Force.  Stayed tuned for the next round to see who is eliminated!


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