# I Need Some Advice



## Roy Harding (6 Mar 2007)

I've recently moved to Terrace, BC - and I have become friendly with the neighbour kids.  There are four of them, ranging in age from 8 - 15.  I've met their Dad, but not their Mom.  I've become sort of an "Uncle" to them - they drop in occasionally, and we discuss whatever is on their mind.

Yesterday, the young fella dropped in, and brought me a dozen farm fresh eggs (they're GREAT!), I got him a 7Up, and we talked a bit.  Turns out that he eventually wants to be a pilot in the CF, and immediately wants to join the local Air Cadet Corps.  His Mom is against the idea.  We talked at length about the Cadet organization (one of my sons was an Air Cadet, another was a Sea Cadet, the third was heavily involved in Scouts - good kids all), and the young fella asked if I could talk to his Mom for him (he's suffering from a little bit of hero worship regarding me - not unusual at his age, and I'll admit that it's somewhat gratifying.)  From what I've gathered, Mom is a bit "left wing", somewhat of a "granola cruncher", but deeply concerned for her children (my words, not the kids).   Although I haven't met the lady, and I'm fairly sure we will disagree on a bunch of subjects, I have a deep and genuine respect for her - based on how she's raised her kids - they're fine specimens of the human race.

Well, I want to do this for him - I want to talk to his Mom, and perhaps intervene on his behalf (as weak an intervention as that will be) - he's a good kid, and I don't think his Mom's bias against the military (according to him, anyway) should preclude him from participating in a very worthwhile youth organization.  I just don't know how to go about it.

Any suggestions?


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## pylon (6 Mar 2007)

The best way to approach is the casual way.  Don't approach her and say, I would like to discuss cadets and your children.  If at any time you meet her in the store or out in the yard and get into a friendly conversation (generally small talk) and then as the conversation is ending, you can say: Oh by the way, your son was telling me he's interested in cadets. You know my children were involved and it really was a great, rewarding experience for them.  You know, my kids learn to sew, or cook, or whatever.. and they became so much more polite....    What are your thoughts.  Again, in a casual way, identify the problems she has with cadets and do your best to inform her. 

You can fill those blanks with whatever you want.  It really needs to look casual and seem off the cuff... like a spontaneous conversation.

And yes, I am a salesman....  not for much longer... but I am.



kc


(edited for grammer)


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## Roy Harding (6 Mar 2007)

pylon said:
			
		

> ...
> And yes, I am a salesman....  not for much longer... but I am.
> ...



And a good one too, I'll bet.

Thank you pylon - your words make sense - I'll have to manufacture some excuse to have a casual conversation with the lady - shouldn't be too hard, her kids are "hanging around" here on a fairly regular basis.

Roy


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## Teflon (6 Mar 2007)

Another thing I think might be helpfull in this situation would be if you acquired some of the literature from the local cadet organizations and provided it to the young lad to show his mother, if she is open minded enough to bother to read it then she would she some of the benefits provided by the cadet system to young people and that it isn't some "pre-killer indoctrination" with the sole purpose of hooking future recruits for the Forces early.


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## Roy Harding (6 Mar 2007)

Teflon said:
			
		

> ...if you acquired some of the literature from the local cadet organizations and provided it to the young lad to show his mother...



Another wise suggestion - thank you.  I think I'll head off to the local Squadron (747 Unicorn) today and get a handful of that literature.  I'll probably meld your suggestion with pylon's, and give it to the lady personally, during the "casual" conversation.

DAMN - I KNEW you guys would be a good resource - thank you.

Roy


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## Pea (6 Mar 2007)

Roy,

When I was 13 and wanted to join Cadets my Mom was against it as well. It took some pamphlets from the local unit and a discussion of what Cadets ACTUALLY is to change her mind. Once she realized it wasn't a part of the military and I wasn't going to be drafted off to war in the future, she came around. She actually came to love it, and even signed my younger brother up a few years later. I am a huge advocate of the Cadet program and all the great things it does for youth. Another tip, make sure she knows it's a Free program. That right there had my Mom excited with a household of 4 rugrats.

Best of luck. I'm really pleased to see you trying to help a kid out.


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## Roy Harding (6 Mar 2007)

You guys ROCK - thanks.

So - have a "casual" conversation, bring the literature from the local Cadet Corps, and make sure I mention that it's FREE (at least for the parents - your tax dollars at work - but that's another conversation!)  

Got it - the conversation will be a done deal by the end of the day tomorrow (possibly as late as Thursday, depending upon circumstances) (gotta get that literature today).

I think I'll bake a cake or something, and take it over to them.  (We've engaged in an exchange of this type - the kids brought me cookies, I took Banana Bread over to them, they brought eggs - it's my turn).

Thanks - keep the suggestions coming - we're gonna' get a CF18 pilot out of this!!  

(More importantly, we're going to get a good, solid  citizen out of this - regardless he becomes a pilot.)

Roy

Edit:  Added the last parenthetical comment.


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## Burrows (6 Mar 2007)

Hey Roy,

I'd suggest making it first and foremost known that the cadets are less military based now than they are focused at not only citizenship and leadership.  Both of these are extremely helpful in the world today.  Also mention how its a great opportunity for him to earn volunteer hours and how great cadets looks on a resume - from experience, it really impresses most managers because it shows discipline, as well as the ability to follow instructions, etc.

Bottom line, like was said, we're not creating GI Junior, we're shaping the leaders of tomorrow.

Good luck with talking to the mother, and I think its great that you're willing to help the kid.


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## beach_bum (7 Mar 2007)

Kyle beat me to it.  If the Mother is crunchy, focusing on leadership, skills, camaraderie etc rather than military based stuff would be a good thing to focus on.  Perhaps if the son is with you during this conversation he may also have things to add.  That, and perhaps when she sees how much he really wants this it'll help pursuade her.


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## ryanmann356 (7 Mar 2007)

exactly

Do your homework, bring some pamphlets if you can get a hold of them, you can find a ton of info on the cadet website www.cadets.ca  for all three branches.

Good luck!


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## Rocketryan (7 Mar 2007)

Introduce your children to her, tell her how they were in cadets, have them tell her how great it was (If they're experience was a positive one), and then mention that her son talked to you about cadets. 

And like everyone says.

Cadets isn't making future soldiers.


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## Roy Harding (7 Mar 2007)

Rocketryan said:
			
		

> Introduce your children to her, tell her how they were in cadets, have them tell her how great it was (If they're experience was a positive one), and then mention that her son talked to you about cadets.
> 
> And like everyone says.
> 
> Cadets isn't making future soldiers.



Thanks for all the advice - I can't introduce my boys to her - they all live in Alberta!

The local Corps parades on Thursday nights - so I'm going to drop in on them, and then talk to my neighbour on Friday or Saturday.  I'll update this thread as things progress.


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## Roy Harding (13 Mar 2007)

As promised - an update.

My wife and I went to the local Air Cadet Squadron on their parade night (Thursday) - and we were impressed.  The kids were all extremely well disciplined, respectful to an old grey-haired, bearded fellow (me), and his wife.  In fact - their Sr NCOs kept them at "Right Dress" (arms extended) for so long that I remarked to my wife that I would not have put up with it - but not a peep out of the kids.

I talked at length with the Sqn CO (Capt Bishop) - who, although somewhat portly, seemed to have his act together.  I explained why I was there - and he immediately became animated - loaded me up with literature, and encouraged me to bring young Graham and his parents for a visit.  So far, so good.

Because of my Wendy's schedule, we didn't visit the neighbours until Sunday.  The two of us trooped over with a dozen fresh baked cinnamon rolls, and rang the bell.  We spent a pleasant couple of hours with our neighbours and their four kids - wonderful kids all.  I brought the Air Cadets up (but did NOT bring out the literature - would have smacked of "pre-planning" if I had), and talked for a little bit about what a great organization it is, and how my son had achieved his power license through it.  I mentioned that I would be willing to look into the local Sqn, and see how it was - to which I received polite agreement.  

We carried onto other conversation - which lead to me volunteering to help with the local music festival (how do I get myself into these things?)

I have to say that Mom did NOT strike me as the "left-wing granola cruncher" which I had imagined - we passed a pleasant couple of hours, and I kind of liked her.  She's an independent photographer, and we discussed in general terms having her photograph my work for my portfolio (once my shop is up).  All in all - a very pleasant time - I'm glad they're our neighbours.  Although, I'm now committed to two weeks of volunteer work - I always was a sucker for "someone in need of help".

Anyway - young Graham continues to visit occasionally, and I'll give him the literature this week - perhaps one day when I walk him home.

I'll keep you posted.


Roy


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## Yrys (13 Mar 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I'll keep you posted.



thanks


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## CdtBosn (13 Mar 2007)

Sounds like the world may soon have a few more air cadets. It seems to me that most mom's are afraid of cadets (those of them that have ever been in it before), I think that they are just afraid of the kids going away one night and when they come home they wont recognize them. Only to realize once they come down to see the unit they realize it isn't about war, but learning things like discipline, and respect as demonstrated with your visit Roy.

Cheers,

Shay


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## Mike Baker (13 Mar 2007)

Looks like you might get 'em in Roy, good work. I only wish we had cadets here in my town.


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## Roy Harding (13 Mar 2007)

Michael Baker said:
			
		

> Looks like you might get 'em in Roy, good work. I only wish we had cadets here in my town.



Michael:

I appreciate the sentiment expressed in your post - but for the record, I'm not out to "get 'em in".  I am NOT a one man recruiting team for the Cadets.  I AM interested in helping a good young lad join a youth movement in which he has expressed an interest.  His only obstacle is his Mom's misunderstanding of said movement.  

Parents are (quite properly) extremely powerful forces in the lives of youngsters.  In this particular case, having met Graham's parents, I think they are fine people - doing a bang-up job of bringing up four bright, interesting, polite, respectful, and multi-faceted individuals.  I am NOT interested in helping the young fella thwart his parents wishes.  I will bring them what information I can about the movement, put the best face on the local Squadron that I am able, assist them in any research they might want to do (if asked), and let them decide.

On re-reading this thread, I can see where the impression may be formed that I am attempting to help Graham "get around" his Mom and Dad.  Such is DEFINITELY NOT my intent.  I am interested ONLY in giving them the information they need to make an informed opinion.

As stated previously - I'll keep ya'll informed.


Roy


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## Ex-Dragoon (13 Mar 2007)

The cadet movement should hire you as a PR guy Roy.


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## Mike Baker (13 Mar 2007)

Roy, I realize that. Just saying that on how you are trying to get him in the cadets, not recruiting for the cadets


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## Roy Harding (13 Mar 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> The cadet movement should hire you as a PR guy Roy.



Why should they hire me??  Apparently I'm already doing it for free!


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## Sloaner (13 Mar 2007)

Perhaps we shouldn't hire you, but we should at least interview you and those like you who have had children in the system as a tool to use for new or reluctant parents.  All of our materials really are focussed on the cadet with a sidebar paragraph for parents but not real parental testimonials.  Perhaps its something I'll look into for my corps for the fall to include in our standard package.  Thanks for stirring the idea in my head, and hopefully the young man will have the opportunity to join the program.  Best of luck to you both.


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## Roy Harding (13 Mar 2007)

Sloaner said:
			
		

> Perhaps we shouldn't hire you, but we should at least interview you and those like you who have had children in the system as a tool to use for new or reluctant parents.  All of our materials really are focussed on the cadet with a sidebar paragraph for parents but not real parental testimonials.  Perhaps its something I'll look into for my corps for the fall to include in our standard package.  Thanks for stirring the idea in my head, and hopefully the young man will have the opportunity to join the program.  Best of luck to you both.



Good idea - but interviewing ME (and others like me) wouldn't work.  I have a military background, which would automatically make my opinions null and void in the minds of civilian parents (who would be the target market of such a campaign - you don't need to convince military folks about the worth of Cadets).

You need to find civilian parents out there who are supportive of the Cadets.  They exist, but they probably aren't hanging around on Army.ca!

Roy


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## Mike Baker (13 Mar 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> You need to find civilian parents out there who are supportive of the Cadets.  They exist, but they probably aren't hanging around on Army.ca!


Your right Roy. If they have no connection to the military, why be here?


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## CdtBosn (13 Mar 2007)

Well then I guess we could use my Mom or Dad, unless for my Dad being a selfproclaimed base brat when he was a kid would make him void as well!


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## Sloaner (14 Mar 2007)

True enough on the particulars, but it is still a decent idea.


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## GuNnEr@2853 (13 Apr 2007)

My older sister would probably attest that cadets is good though none of her children are in the program...just 2 of her younger sisters. But then I guess she was an army brat when she was a kid, seeing as our dad was in the military. My mom would certainly attest cadets is a good program and i'm sure many of the parents of cadetes at my corps would also attest cadets is a good program.


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## Roy Harding (15 Apr 2007)

An update on the original situation.

I've since (two weeks ago), presented the young guys' parents with an assortment of literature from the local Cadet Corps, and told them that I'd be willing to accompany him and them to a parade night, if that would make them more comfortable (and offered to drive the young guy alone, if that worked for them).

Since then, I've been silent on the subject.  We continue to have neighbourly conversations, and I continue to be visited by young Graham.  But I will not broach the subject again until one of either the parents, or Graham, brings it up again.  As much as I think Cadets is a wonderful organization, I feel even MORE strongly that responsible parents (which these folks definitely are) wishes should not be questioned by an outsider.

Should anything develop, I'll inform this thread.



Roy


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## Roy Harding (15 Apr 2007)

As an aside.

As mentioned in some previous post, I volunteered for the local music festival as a result of my interest in young Graham's interest in Air Cadets.

Since last Thursday (12 Apr), I've put in 15 hours everyday - moving stuff backstage, guiding folks to their destinations, being an impromptu (but thankfully qualified) First Aider, kid controller (easy - the kids actually LISTEN to someone who talks with a loud voice and seems to know what they're talking about), PARENT controller (less easy - but not hard - for the same reasons), crisis interventionist (this room is double booked, what will we do???  How about that vacant room over there??).  And this will continue EVERY day until 28 April.  How DO I let myself into this stuff??

I'm having a blast - meeting many people, making many friends.  Wendy and I went out to dinner with the Terrace Community Band last night - and had a very good time.

It's long days, but I'm having a blast, and have nothing better to do anyway.



Roy


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## mrshappy (18 Apr 2007)

Three cheers for Mr Harding!  If there were more people in Canada like you being such a great advocate of the CCM, so many more young people would be taking advantage of all that Cadets has to offer.  One thing I've really noticed is that it is extremely important to have the parents be "plugged-in" to their child's Squadron so that they understand what their child is doing and learning and to provide support and encouragement that will help the Cadet to succeed and stick with the program even when he/she encounters bumps in the road along the way.  As a former Air Cadet, mother of 2 Air Cadets and now a CI (soon to be an Ocdt in the CIC) I've seen the program from every perspective and good communications and relationships between the Squadron Staff and Cadet Parents is something that will greatly help in the retention of Cadets, or in Mr Harding's story to possibly help get the child in the front door by educating the Parents first and letting them make an informed decision with their son.  Not a lot of people would take the time to do what you have done Mr Harding, and you made my day reading this!  Thank-you!


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