# Re-enrolling after a  2(A) RELEASE



## spetsnaz891 (4 Apr 2013)

hello, in august 2011 I was released from the Canadian Forces under Section 2(A) (by reason of unsatisfactory civil conduct, or conviction of an offence by a civil court, of a serious nature not related to the performance of his duties but reflecting discredit on the Service)

I was told by my CO that I could rejoin in 3 years, but have not found any information as of yet to back that up, and we all know how the military works, you can't put all your eggs into one basket on the words of one person.

I have searched through these forums but haven't had any luck seeing any similar topics, I have also ready through the entire CF document on Releases without prevail.

If anyone has any information on the terms of re-enlistment / re-instatement I would really appreciate it, my career got cut short by a series of misfortunate events, I thoroughly enjoyed my short 3 years in the army and wish too once again make that my lifelong career.


Thanks.


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## spetsnaz891 (4 Apr 2013)

oh wow, I guess this is kind of the wrong section....


please excuse my stupidity


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## kratz (4 Apr 2013)

Re-enrollment = Canadian terms, not American

ref: QR&O 15.01 - Release item 2(a)



> Unsatisfactory Service:
> Unsatisfactory Conduct.
> 
> where convicted by a service tribunal of an offence which warrants release under this category, but does not warrant release under Item 1(b);
> ...



ref:  QR&O 6.02 - ACTION PRIOR TO ENROLMENT OF PERSONS WITH FORMER SERVICE



> A person who has previously served in the Canadian Forces, in any other of Her Majesty's forces, in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or in any foreign force, and who applies for enrolment in the Canadian Forces, shall be required to:
> a. state the particulars of any former service;
> b. state the cause of release; and
> c. produce the release papers.


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## DAA (4 Apr 2013)

spetsnaz891 said:
			
		

> hello, in august 2011 I was released from the Canadian Forces under Section 2(A) (by reason of unsatisfactory civil conduct, or conviction of an offence by a civil court, of a serious nature not related to the performance of his duties but reflecting discredit on the Service)
> 
> I was told by my CO that I could rejoin in 3 years, but have not found any information as of yet to back that up, and we all know how the military works, you can't put all your eggs into one basket on the words of one person.



Release under items 5.d or 5.f. require "CDS Approval" and that approval is NOT delegated.  A release under an Item 2, I think, would be considered worse as it is just shy of an Item 1. release.

No idea where your previous CO came up with 3 years.


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## The_Falcon (5 Apr 2013)

DAA said:
			
		

> Release under items 5.d or 5.f. require "CDS Approval" and that approval is NOT delegated.  A release under an Item 2, I think, would be considered worse as it is just shy of an Item 1. release.
> 
> No idea where your previous CO came up with 3 years.



Falls under the same category  DAOD 5002-1

"Former Service in the CF, Other Military Force or RCMP

In accordance with QR&O article 6.02, Action Prior to Enrolment of Persons with Former Service, an applicant with former service in the CF, any other military force or the RCMP is required to:

state the particulars of that service;
state the cause of their release; and
produce their release papers.
*In accordance with QR&O paragraphs 6.01(2) and (4), unless special authority is personally obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS), an applicant with former service shall not be enrolled if released*:

as medically unfit;
for inefficiency;
with a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act; or
for misconduct.
*For applicants with former CF service, the above includes any release from the CF under* Item 1 (misconduct), *2 (unsatisfactory service)*, 3(a) (medically unfit for further service), 5(d) (not advantageously employable) or 5(f) (unsuitable for further service) of the Table to QR&O article 15.01, Release of Officers and Non-Commissioned Member. For applicants with former service in any other military force or the RCMP, the above includes any reason analogous to one of these Items."

In other words, for the OP, you may as well look at other options, because you will be waiting A LONG time.  Life isn't like golf, you usually don't get a mulligan.


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## TYLERgibson (5 Apr 2013)

You can always try!


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## The_Falcon (6 Apr 2013)

Artyman said:
			
		

> You can always try!



The OP can try, but as I have mentioned and DAA has mentioned in other threads related to unfavourable release categories, the likelihood of someone obtaining the CDS waiver is practically Nil, as it must be vetted by several others in CFRG first before it ever reaches the CDS.  And as there is no shortage of people applying who don't have these negatives already attached to them, PSO's and their bosses are in no hurry to look at these unfavourable files.


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## spetsnaz891 (7 Apr 2013)

this is disheartening news, I shouldn't have let myself sit on the idea that I am joining again next year without further researching it  :-\


well, it is comforting to know I can at least try.... I have no idea what I would do besides be a soldier again, even went as far as to look into the French Foreign Legion, but they are perpetually full.
if it makes any difference I had 0 problems in the military and went through everything with above average ratings, hopefully that makes a small difference?

How would I go about attempting to apply for this CDS waiver? 

and if anyone was interested in the story, it was the lowest point in my life and I am sure a few of you may have heard of it.
http://www.newbrunswickbeacon.ca/13768/b-c-man-sentenced-for-assault/


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## Chrispi (7 Apr 2013)

I don't know much about your situation, but based on the sentence that was given, wouldn’t a military career be legally prohibited?

" ...was sentenced to three months in prison, 18 months probation, keeping the peace, 100 hours of community service, anger management and *probation from possessing firearms for 10 years.*"


While I sympathise with you, I remind you, these are the Canadian ARMED Forces.


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## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2013)

Chrispi said:
			
		

> I don't know much about your situation, but based on the sentence that was given, wouldn’t a military career be legally prohibited?



You can't apply when you have current legal obligations, and since he's prohibited from possessing firearms, that's a legal obligation. You'd need to get the court to remove the order. Doubt that's going to happen without a job offer, and I doubt you're going to get a job offer from the CAF with a prohibition order.


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## spetsnaz891 (7 Apr 2013)

the weapons prohibition will not be a problem

the charge had nothing to do with a weapon, and even the judge was questioning why they threw that restriction on there
after my probation is up next month, I will be applying to have the weapons ban removed, as I am an active licensed hunter, I have known a few people who have had firearm bans lifted this way.


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## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2013)

Just so you're aware, you're looking at climbing Everest to get back in.


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## Motard (7 Apr 2013)

spetsnaz891 said:
			
		

> http://www.newbrunswickbeacon.ca/13768/b-c-man-sentenced-for-assault/



That's unfortunate, military members getting involved in fights are nothing new, had the other guy not hit his head on the pavement it probably wouldn't have gone any further.


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## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2013)

Motard said:
			
		

> That's unfortunate, military members getting involved in fights are nothing new, had the other guy not hit his head on the pavement it probably wouldn't have gone any further.



Not unfortunate, you're responsible for the force you use. Also, this: 





> Myers, at 6’2 and 225lbs, Wiggins, 5’8 and 145lbs.


 probably factored into the decision to charge as well.


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## The_Green_Basterd (7 Apr 2013)

spetsnaz891 said:
			
		

> the weapons prohibition will not be a problem
> 
> the charge had nothing to do with a weapon, and even the judge was questioning why they threw that restriction on there
> after my probation is up next month, I will be applying to have the weapons ban removed, as I am an active licensed hunter, I have known a few people who have had firearm bans lifted this way.



The recruiting centre will not be able to do anything with your file until your weapons prohibition is served in full or the ban is lifted.  If during the process you tell the judge its keeping you from employment with the forces you will likely be asked to provide proof of this.  The proof would come in a letter of offer of employment which the CF will not provide.  This is because, touching on what Puck chaser said, you need a job offer and the CF wont process you until the prohibition is already behind you.

As for the waiver, I have seen waivers go to the CDS before.  The situation was not related to a criminal conviction and was a citizenship issue.  This was an outstanding applicant that surpassed all measures we used to determine suitability, in a trade that was in extreme demand and that he had experience in.  With all this ideal conditions, it took over a year to get.

I don`t hang out with the CDS, but I`m fairly sure we both keep the same types of memos at the bottom of the pile.

Good Luck.


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## Towards_the_gap (7 Apr 2013)

Expensive punch.


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## spetsnaz891 (8 Apr 2013)

"Just so you're aware, you're looking at climbing Everest to get back in."

I am aware of this, I would sell all of my worldly possessions to get back in



> Not unfortunate, you're responsible for the force you use. Also, this:
> Quote
> Myers, at 6’2 and 225lbs, Wiggins, 5’8 and 145lbs.




it is unfortunate, he almost died. I waited a week knowing that he was in the ICU and was near death, that week every hour was a minute, waiting to find out if I would be charged with manslaughter or assault.
I am not a violent person, or a coward who picks on smaller people, I blackout when I get angry enough, and the news report doesn't do justice on what he was doing to that girl

I really appreciate all the responses, thank you.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Apr 2013)

Good luck.
Lets lock this before someone steps over the line.
If you have any news PM a Mod and we can open it back up.
Bruce
Staff


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