# Pilot Selection



## cda84 (25 Apr 2005)

OK so I got accepted for ROTP pilot last year, but the medical paperwork took too long to finally process through (it did, but took a while), so i didn't get it. (wasn't told this till this week). Missed the ROTP and CEOTP this year, and right now am accepted for infantry officer in the reserves, with basic trg this summer. I will apply next year for DEO (finishing my degree end of next summer probably) or CEOTP, see how school goes (and if the latter is open). So 3 questions:

1. They said to keep up leadership and involvement of organzing with people, etc. What are some good ideas? I am 100% looking, but what have other guys/girls done for this? Some ideas for leadership positions that would help me out. Volunteer or work.

2. The fact I was accepted before, and at first chance again, will that work in my favour? And how good does Infantry Officer go for experience for Pilot selection?

3. If I passed all the eye stuff last year (except I never went to ASC), will I need to undergo it (and all the other medical stuff) again?

Thanks for any replies guys!

Chris
c_allan84@hotmail.com


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## tree hugger (25 Apr 2005)

1.  Volunteer at a local boys and girls club, coach a team, become a sports/safety/social/anything rep for work.  Donate time to a charity.

2. ?

3.  Safe bet.


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## ROTP Applicant (25 Apr 2005)

cda84 said:
			
		

> OK so I got accepted for ROTP pilot last year, but the medical paperwork took too long to finally process through (it did, but took a while), so i didn't get it. (wasn't told this till this week). Missed the ROTP and CEOTP this year, and right now am accepted for infantry officer in the reserves, with basic trg this summer. I will apply next year for DEO (finishing my degree end of next summer probably) or CEOTP, see how school goes (and if the latter is open). So 3 questions:
> 
> 1. They said to keep up leadership and involvement of organzing with people, etc. What are some good ideas? I am 100% looking, but what have other guys/girls done for this? Some ideas for leadership positions that would help me out. Volunteer or work.
> 
> ...



So you got an offer for ROTP Pilot last year, and simply because the medical took a while to get back they took the offer away? Sounds fishy to me, but who am I to judge.

1) Maybe volunteer at a local cadet unit, coach a sports team, volunteer at a community centre, etc.
2) I doubt that your previous selection will have much bearing on the board's decision, but it is obviously a good sign that you were selected last year. 
3) You medical is valid for one year (including the eye and blood tests) so if it has been less than one year since your medical exams, then you won't have to do them again. But stay healthy because they're gonna do a lot of tests in the medical portion of Aircrew Selection.


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## cda84 (25 Apr 2005)

Hey, it sounds fishy to me too! But the exact words from the MCC "yo were picked up last year for pilot, and had an offer..". But that was that, and this is now.

Thanks for the advice guys, any more ideas would help me of course! Volunteering at those places is a great idea.

Sorry for more questions:

But what about he Better Eye and Other Eye part of the medical standards for flying, 6/6 and 6/9?
And what medical tests are done at ASC?

Thanks again.

Chris
c_allan84@hotmail.com


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## h.u.a. (2 Nov 2005)

First, is there a maximum age for acceptance as a pilot?  I haven't seen anything here, or on any of the 'official' websites (other than it being hard to define & to contact your local recruiting centre).  I spoke with a recruiter in Calgary, he didn't think so, but was unsure.  If there isn't an official age limit, is there a practical age-limit?   

I'm 32.  Had 20/20 uncorrected vision when last checked (about 2yrs ago).  Was working on my PPL, but haven't flown in a few years.

Second, from what I've read, they say it can take up to 2yrs to get your wings (& then a 7yr commitment), but from what I've seen on here it seems like there's a bit of a backlog in the training.  Is 2yrs still a realistic timeframe to go from initial application as a DEO to being awarded your 'wings'?  Also, approximately what is the timeframes from initial application to testing, & then to aircrew selection?

Last, preference would be jet or multi, don't really have the bug to fly helicopters, any demand for either at the moment & more importantly in a few years?

Just curious if I'm crazy for thinking of this kind of a career change at this point...

Thanks.


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## Zoomie (2 Nov 2005)

At 32 you are not too old to become a CF pilot.  There have been older OCDTs in the system.  Do you have a degree?  If not, you would be enrolled as an OCDT under OCTP - the dramatic loss of pay is another consideration for career minded individuals.

What you should take into account is the big life change that you would undergo should you decide to proceed.  At 32 I am sure that you are set in a certain career and life style.  The CF does not age discriminate, therefore you would be treated like every other 20 year old that joins up.  

Training delays are inevitable - bank on 3-4 years to wings as a more plausible number.  Recruiting is another story, I really don't know if they have their proverbial poop together when it comes to processing applicants.  That process could take upwards of a year.

No time to waste my friend, if you want to do this the clock is ticking.


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## 23007 (2 Nov 2005)

Yeah what zoomie said. As well there is a 36 year old 2Lt with me on OJT waiting for his moose jaw course that isn't supposed to start until august i believe. So you're not alone in wanting to join at an older age.  Also, last summer I did a course with a guy who had spent 30 years with the Ottawa Police and wanted a career change so he decided to join the military as a pilot. If he can do it, anyone can. good luck.


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## casing (2 Nov 2005)

There was a 41 year-old pilot-to-be that I went through IAP/BOTP with.  So don't sweat it.


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## Jaxson (2 Nov 2005)

Deleted my post, couldnt find the thread backing my statement.


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## Sf2 (11 Nov 2005)

like the others said, no age limit, as long as you meet the medical requirements, you're good to go.

I'm not sure what the training back log is right now, but I officially arrived in moose Jaw in June 99, and got my wings in April 2002.  But that was during the Tutor to Harvard II transition period.  Bottom line, don't expect instant course dates.   This is assuming you have a decent french profile of course.

I wouldn't write off helicopter flying just yet.  Everyone wants to be a fighter jock when they get to moose jaw, but almost EVERYONE comes out with a different point of view.  Just because you're not going 800 kts, doesn't mean you're not flying.


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## rounder199 (7 Mar 2006)

I've been looking through the forums for all information regarding the DEO entry as a pilot, but I still have a few more questions hopefully someone can answer.  

What are the odds of getting in as a pilot?  I know this is a tricky question but there must be lots of applications with limited spots so I'm trying to determine my chances of getting in.  I'm 26 and have the prereqs,..ie university degree, 20/20, in good shape, bilingual, passed the aptitude test, have played several sports being captain.   

I read that there are boards that sit and determine possible applicants.  When is the next one for DEO pilot?  What is the timeline I should be looking at for the whole process?  

I indicated Pilot as my only choice, however if this may not be feasible, I would like to add a second and third choice to the list.  I know that it would go by personal choice after(I have read up on different positions), but what are some interesting positions I can consider if the application as a pilot goes nowhere?   Are there any I could do and then transfer later as a pilot?

My progress so far:

Application sent in Feb 10th in Montreal
Aptitude test March 2nd
Medical March 8th
Interview and physical to follow.


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## rnkelly (7 Mar 2006)

I don't know the odds but probably not in your best interest to know at this stage.
You still need to complete several steps before the file goes to selection board; physical test, medical exam, eye exam, interview, urine and blood test, Aircrew selection test, Air navigator tests, aircrew medical tests. Then selection boards are in the fall and spring for basic training that would begin in September and January.
I would say that the process between start of application and start of training would take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.
Don't quote me


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## kincanucks (7 Mar 2006)

I guess you didn't look very far or hard:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40504.0.html


rnkelly is right in *one * aspect get through all the processing before you worry about your chances.  No sense worrying about your chances to be a pilot if you don't pass the medical or the aircrew selection.  Good luck.


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## ZxExN (9 Mar 2006)

If you pass the medical and Aircrew selection, you're pretty in. Goodluck.


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## rounder199 (13 Mar 2006)

Thanks for the info and the outline of what I will have to go through up to and including aircrew selection.  I guess I just have to be patient and go through the motions.  One step at a time..


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## double0three (13 Mar 2006)

The process is very long.  Longer for some than others.  But guarenteed to be collecting documents and going to medical appointments many months from your initial application!  Just do what the tell you as quickly as possibly, and just wait.  Don't have any time expectations because it certain takes a while.


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## inferno (14 Mar 2006)

I found with my app, throwing the ball back in their court as fast as you can really helps.

When they tell you to go to the clinic to get blood taken for testing.. I did it the next morning at 6AM.. before I left for school. (here I thought I was being smart and could avoid all the old people who would obviously not be up by 0600, and would still be in bed... turns out old people dont sleep or something, because there was a 20 odd person lineup of old people right outside the door when I turned up.)

but I digress, I had that paperwork sent to them straight from the clinic. It took about 3 buisness days.
If you wait 2 weeks every time to get yourself together for the tests and paperwork they want you to get, then you can tack on 2 weeks to the end for every peice of paper and every task.


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## double0three (14 Mar 2006)

Inferno has the right idea.  I basically tried to do the same thing.  The amount of time they spend on paper work is long enough, but if you add a few days or even a week on each step, thats effectively at least doubling the total processing time for your file!  Especially worse if you have a lot of things you need to get (ie for Pilot you need blood work, eye test, doctors notes, etc etc)


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## bbbb (16 Mar 2006)

I'd say that you are in good shape for your application.


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## Former291er (20 Mar 2006)

Hello all,
     I am going CEOTP for pilot right now, have the aircrew selection the end of april. I was in talking to my recruiting officer today because its been a while. I've known him for a few years and he is very knowledgable of the forces. Turns out that he is now considering trying out for pilot. He told me that in his searches and talking to superiors he found that even if you get into pilot and pass basic and pass everything right up to moosejaw that you are still not guarunteed a job. He said only the top percent of the class will be offered jobs and the ones who don't make it will have to choose another occupation. He is a captain and always seems to know the answers so I am thinking he knows what he's saying here. Just a heads up for anyone going in.
Cheers.

P.S. I also found out for those CEOTP hopefuls that you do not get paid as a regular OCDT on basic it is the CEOTP OCDT pay which is $2400 a month. Plus over 300 separation pay for those with families. Just incase somebody wanted to know.

Rob.


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## double0three (20 Mar 2006)

Ah thanks for the info.  That's kind of discouraging to hear you aren't guarenteed a piloting job at the end of your pilot training.  I haven't heard that anywhere else before, but that just means if I ever get in I'll just have to make sure I'm at the top of the class.


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## yoman (20 Mar 2006)

Former291er said:
			
		

> He told me that in his searches and talking to superiors he found that even if you get into pilot and pass basic and pass everything right up to moosejaw that you are still not guarunteed a job. He said only the top percent of the class will be offered jobs and the ones who don't make it will have to choose another occupation.



Why would they put all that training and spend all that money on you just for them to say "sorry, you don't have a job"?

Sounds fishy to me.


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## aesop081 (20 Mar 2006)

It sounds fishy because t BS when worded like that.  making it to MJ doesnt mean you will be a pilot in the CF because not everyone passes MJ.  Same for helo guys when they go to BHS....not everyone passes.  Therfore making it to MJ doent guarantee you a job as a pilot.  I knwo one person ( a freind of mine) who made it through MJ and did not pass his type course so now he flies a mahagony bomber.......


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## Former291er (20 Mar 2006)

Sorry if my wording makes it sound wrong but i'm just repeating what I was told. But I could understand someone passing they're pilot training but not getting an offer as a pilot and having to change occupations. I think of it like this: millions of canadians take driver training and pass their road test so that they can drive vehicles, however there are still absolutly horrible drivers on the road. So the way I see it I am not going to let some guy who just passed his driver training and road test drive my Ferrari(lets just pretend i own one) which is worth 100's of 1000's of dollars, I would want the absolute best. And I can see it being the same in the forces, just passing your pilot course and being an okay pilot, how could the canadian forces just let you fly a multi million dollar machine knowing that you just barely passed training. So maybe they would loose a couple hundred thousand on training but they have the potential to save millions if you ditch an aircraft.


Just my 2 cents though.
Rob.


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## double0three (20 Mar 2006)

I'm gonna have to go with aesop081 on this one, makes more sense.


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## inferno (20 Mar 2006)

I have heard the "my buddy" thing so many times..

Along with the "just a heads up for you Pilot apps." thing...

I think my brain just filters most of it out by now...

As for this one... There was a good example I was told when I was at the ASC.. clerical error at the ASC passed the failing portion of the class, and failed the passing portion of the class.. Oops. When they got to MJ.. their skills were obviously lacking.. CF instructors managed to bring some of them up to standard and shove them though the course.. once you've gone through any training, the CF has a vested interest in you.. that said.. you can only be pushed so far.. if you dont have what it takes.. and you dont meet the standard.. then you can not go forward.. but if you can be brought up to the standard with a little extra attention, then why not?

Also with getting dumped from any portion of the pilot training... you don't get stuck in doing something you never anticipated doing.
They will offer you other trades/jobs so forth.. but when it comes down to the line, if you decline everything that gets thrown at you, you can sign your papers and walk away. (Processing takes time ofcourse.)

Atleast that's how it was explained to me in the CFRC.


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## Zach15 (21 Mar 2006)

I think the point is, you either pass your flight training or you don't. If you don't have the stuff to be a pilot in the CF, then they will send you packing before you complete your training. If you do finish the training then you are competant enough to be given control of the aircraft you had been trained in.



             Zach


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## Inch (21 Mar 2006)

Former291er,

Wrong, wrong, wrong. 

As the only guy to reply in this thread that has made it through CF pilot training, I will tell you that you've been lied to. No one in the history of the CF has made it to wings standard only to be remustered because they weren't good enough. If you get your wings, you've got your wings and you WILL fly a CF aircraft of some type. If you haven't got what it takes, you'll never get pilot wings pinned on you. You'll be CT'd (cease training) long before wings grad.

Now having said that, if at any point up to being awarded your CF pilot wings you fail to meet the standard, you will be CT'd and your career as a pilot will be over. This includes your very last test during advanced flying training, regardless of aircraft type. It is very common for guys to get through Moose Jaw and have trouble flying helos, if they fail to meet the standard in helo school, buhbye. Guys have been CT'd from Jet training as well as multi engine training.

Don't think for a second that there are any guarantees, if you can't meet the standard, you're done. If you do meet the standard, then you get your wings and fly for the CF.

Now, let's say you fail something after getting your wings, like your Herc course or Hornet course, etc. In this case you will go to a Career Review Board and your fate will be decided, the CRB's that I've heard of often result in transfer to a different aircraft type. 

Clear enough for you?


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## Former291er (21 Mar 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> Former291er,
> 
> Wrong, wrong, wrong.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your reply. I'm glad to get responses from pilots to straighten this out, thats why they have forums I guess, lol. I don't think that captain tarso lied to me, but obviously his information is either mixed up or he recieved false information. Its good to have a site with professionals in lots of different trades who have done the training to clearify on subjects related to their trade.
Thanks again, takes a load of stress off,lol.
Rob.


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## bbbb (21 Mar 2006)

Perhaps getting a Private Pilot License or commercial license would be the best way to go? With one of those you can actually FLY PLANES instead of waiting and doing non-pilot related 'training'. It takes a long time for pilot hopefuls to get their wings and start actually flying for the CF. The possibility of failing that 'training' kills your chances of becoming a CF pilot even before getting into a cockpit. A lot of people have experienced this situation, they enter the CF as pilot 32U and NEVER fly any CF plane because of 'training' that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLYING!! Many people have gone this way...

The way I see it, if you want to be a pilot, get your pilot license that way when you apply for CF pilot you actually have that skill already under your belt. This talk of bad habits during flight training is absolute nonsense. Anybody who passes the flight test and flies properly isn't displaying bad habits. For the people reading these posts up above, perhaps a description of the 'bad habits' PPL people have is in order? I for one did well on my flight test and can fly a plane without any of the sloppy habits some people attach to PPL and CPL pilots. It has been my experience that CPL pilots are awesome pilots. For those people who say that the flight test is not strict, flying a Cessna 150/172 is WAY different from flying a CF-18 or Herc. 

I'm thinking I should change my signature to "Get your Pilot License if you want to be a pilot!".


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## aesop081 (21 Mar 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> Former291er,
> 
> Wrong, wrong, wrong.
> 
> ...



Thanks Inch..thats what i was trying to get at but, unfortunately, i'm not that well-spoken


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## Good2Golf (21 Mar 2006)

bbbb said:
			
		

> Perhaps getting a Private Pilot License or commercial license would be the best way to go? With one of those you can actually FLY PLANES instead of waiting and doing non-pilot related 'training'. It takes a long time for pilot hopefuls to get their wings and start actually flying for the CF. The possibility of failing that 'training' kills your chances of becoming a CF pilot even before getting into a cockpit. A lot of people have experienced this situation, they enter the CF as pilot 32U and NEVER fly any CF plane because of 'training' that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLYING!! Many people have gone this way...
> 
> The way I see it, if you want to be a pilot, get your pilot license that way when you apply for CF pilot you actually have that skill already under your belt. *1. This talk of bad habits during flight training is absolute nonsense. 2. Anybody who passes the flight test and flies properly isn't displaying bad habits. 3. For the people reading these posts up above, perhaps a description of the 'bad habits' PPL people have is in order?* I for one did well on my flight test and can fly a plane without any of the sloppy habits some people attach to PPL and CPL pilots. *4. It has been my experience that CPL pilots are awesome pilots.* For those people who say that the flight test is not strict, flying a Cessna 150/172 is WAY different from flying a CF-18 or Herc.
> 
> I'm thinking I should change my signature to "Get your Pilot License if you want to be a pilot!".



"...my buddy..."   hmmmmmm  :

bbbb, I don't want to scare you away from contributing on this board, but please keep in mind that it is a generally accepted practice here to back up what you are purporting to be factual statements with experience/evidence.  Until you have established a posting rapore with others on the board here, you have to be clear on what you state as fact and what is conjecture/opinion.   If you are stating an "emotional" opinion, vice factual statement, say so.

To address some of your statements (per inserted numbers, highlighted in red, above):

1)  As an example, as a CF pilot with thousands of hours of flight time (albeit not as a QFI - qualified flight instructor), I have spoken with many instructors in the training system who have noted that many civy-trained pilots thought that "being in the general vicinity of altitudes" was sufficient.  This is clearly not on for military flying.  +/-20' of an assigned altitude may seem okay, but now put yourself at 15' AGL on NVGs and see if +/- 20' works out for you!

2) As the holder of a CPLH, I can tell you that the test was not nearly as discriminating as you make it out to be.  Your statement logically indicates that any holder of a PPL or CPL would not have habits 'bad enough' to be unsatisfactory in meeting military standards -- I do not think that is the case.  They could very well have bad habits that happened to be acceptable within the standards laid out for the civilian license, but clearly don't make the grade in military aviation.  

3)  see 1)

4)  My experience has been that while there are some military pilots that are not as good as others, I have never met another CF pilot I wouldn't either fly with myself, or have fly my family.  On the other hand, I have seen some pilots in the commercial world I would have nothing to do with -- flew with some during a summer that I took leave and used my CPLH for a few weeks.  In fact, as an Instrument Check Pilot (meaning the guy who tests another CF pilot for his/her annual "ticket ride") I stripped one pilot of their ticket for what would have (if I hadn't taken control of the aircraft) resulted in a serious violation of Cdn Air Regs -- the guy was an ATPL-qualified pilot in his civy life flying for a well known national airline, it was not a mil-only item he failed on...it was flagrant lack of common sense and judgement!  

For others, I would suggest some familiarization training with a flight instructor at a reputable flight school, but I would not go so far as to recommend getting a private pilots license and the significant cost that can entail.  Having a private pilots license is not directly correlative to success in military pilot training.  If you have the potential that the military is looking for in a pilot, you will succeed.  I think there are very few cases where having a PPL in and of itself made or broke a potential CF pilot's chances. 

Cheers,
Duey


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## Inch (22 Mar 2006)

bbbb said:
			
		

> Perhaps getting a Private Pilot License or commercial license would be the best way to go? With one of those you can actually FLY PLANES instead of waiting and doing non-pilot related 'training'. It takes a long time for pilot hopefuls to get their wings and start actually flying for the CF. The possibility of failing that 'training' kills your chances of becoming a CF pilot even before getting into a cockpit. A lot of people have experienced this situation, they enter the CF as pilot 32U and NEVER fly any CF plane because of 'training' that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLYING!! Many people have gone this way...



bbbb,

This is the not the first time you've posted inaccurate info. Keep this up and I'll put you on the army.ca warning system.

The courses you do before pilot training are BOTC (or whatever it's called these days), second language training, sea and land survival and aeromedical training. None of these should present any great challenge and if they do, it's probably for the best that those that fail these courses don't get to fly a multi million dollar aircraft.

Beyond the 5 courses I listed above, there are no other courses with career implications, ie ones that will lead to you never strapping your butt into a CF aircraft. Even in language school it doesn't matter if you get a profile. I know many guys that got XXX on their french profile and all went to Moose Jaw, not all got their wings but that's the way pilot training goes.


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## Bograt (22 Mar 2006)

I discovered last week at AMT that my name has been submitted for the Grob 120 evaluation course. Looks like late spring/early summer I'll be in Portage. I am thrilled. I am also 81 on the list for MJ ( not to be confused with spiderman's girlfriend). 

After that I will be flying the F-117 or the Mig 29. It depends what stream I am placed into. Perhaps I may get one of those stealth Apache slots. A buddy of mine said that I had it what I takes to fly the Mig 26 or Concord Bomber.

Off to SERE first week of April. I'm sure Winterpeg is nice in the spring- right fellas? Snow is gone, no flies.... 

On a serious note, excellent work Zoomie and the rest of the guys in Comox for the Ferry Rescue


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## Former291er (22 Mar 2006)

Bograt said:
			
		

> I am thrilled. I am also 81 on the list for MJ ( not to be confused with spiderman's girlfriend).



LOL, thats so dry I think I need a glass of water. lol


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## Zoomie (24 Mar 2006)

Bograt said:
			
		

> On a serious note, excellent work Zoomie and the rest of the guys in Comox for the Ferry Rescue



I wish I could take any credit - alas I haven't seen the pit of the Buff for going on 8 months now.  Parental leave has left my hair 6 inches long and plenty of facial hair to boot!

Good luck with that Concorde Bomber slot - I hear this year they are accepting pipes.

Seriously though - to weigh in on what my esteemed colleages have already posted (ok you too Bograt).  

My only advice to pilot applicants for the CF is not to get a PPL - not only because it would be a big waste of money, but it would also limit your chances in being able to repeat PFT (the only flight training course that can be done over).  The caveat to being able to take PFT over is that you must wait one year and must have achieved the next level in flight training on your own dime.  Therefore, if you already had your PPL, you would need to get your CPL.  If you already were a CPL licensed pilot you would need to get your ATPL(airline pilots license).

BBBB you need to switch to receive mode and lay off on the transmit button for a while - you are spouting utter nonsense and leading others astray with your wild and unsubstantiated comments.  I especially enjoyed this little tidbit:


			
				bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb said:
			
		

> I for one did well on my flight test and can fly a plane without any of the sloppy habits some people attach to PPL and CPL pilots.


My answer to that presumptious quote would be: "How do you know what bad habits you may or may not have?"

Come back on these means in about 3 years, when you have your wings (or not) and we'll chat...

Z


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## Bograt (24 Mar 2006)

Let me weigh in with my tremendous wealth of experience. Last course, a standards pilot from Moose gave all us baby pilots a heads up of what we can expect. I'll quickly share.

1. Military flying is quite different from civilian flying. "Correct to the ideal."

2. Members who have already soloed, have a much greater chance of getting through PFT than others- however people of various levels of flight experience fail to meet the standards required to move on to the Jaw. Likewise, people with no experience can and do succeed regularly.

3. The CF does not set people up for failure. It gives people all the tools required to empower people to improve and succeed within the pilot training system.

4. Aptitude, Drive, Personality- Very important when it comes to determining how successful one will be. (But isn't that true for everything in life?)

A lot of these similar posts appear to search for the "magic password" that will enable people to get their wings. There is no secret handshake- and it isn't personal. Many people have gone before you, and many more will go after you. Some will get their wings, some will not. Regardless, wings on your chest is no indication of how successful you career will be.

For those that want to fly and want the sure thing- stay on civie street. For the others who dare to dream and take the chance maybe we have what you want.

---
Inch sorry I missed you while I was in Halifax this week. I owe you a beverage. Zoomie, thanks for including me with Duey and Inch. I may not be a Winged CF pilot, but I play one on army.ca.


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## Zach15 (24 Mar 2006)

I think Bograt made a very important point with saying how everyone is looking for the "magic password" that will make them pass some part of their journey towards getting CF wings.

  Although army.ca is an invaluable resource, no one can tell you what to expect at any stage of the process. For me, the information I gained here was great but it really didn't give me much of an edge when I was actually having testing done - that kind of stuff you just simply have to experience for yourself. With that said, of course it doesn't hurt to gain information on what you are about to be getting yourself into.

   When (and if) I get an offer for pilot and to have a career in the Canadian forces, I plan on being the most determined sonnuvabitch possible. Hard work and focus I think are the two most important things you can do: If you have the potential, and most people who get through ACS apparently do, then you should be able to make it through if you give every thing you do 110%. At least that is my theory anyways, and I am going to rely on me centering my life around learning everything they try and teach me. I plan on going with zero expectations so they can mold me how they want to.

   - Zach


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## Inch (24 Mar 2006)

Zach, 

That's a damn good theory and good advice. On the flip side and by this I don't mean to say it's directed at you, but in general, if you give it everything you've got and it doesn't work out, at least you know you did all that you could and it just wasn't meant to be. If you slack off then you'll always be left wondering if you could have succeeded had you put more effort in.

Good luck in your recruiting process and we all look forward to having keen, motivated people joining us in the cockpit.


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## Zach15 (24 Mar 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> if you give it everything you've got and it doesn't work out, at least you know you did all that you could and it just wasn't meant to be.



Exactly. I wouldn't be able to live with the "what if" question.


			
				Inch said:
			
		

> Good luck in your recruiting process and we all look forward to having keen, motivated people joining us in the cockpit.



   Thanks! Only time will tell...


   - Zach


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## Former291er (24 Mar 2006)

Good replies. I'm glad to hear that there are great pilots that made it in the CF with no prior experience, gives me a chance.
Rob.


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## Strike (25 Mar 2006)

Former291er,

WRT your initial questions, the only thing I can think of is that your recruiter possibly meant to say that it is not guaranteed that you will fly the aircraft that you want to.  There are usually fewer positions available out of MJ for multi or jet, when compared to helo.

Inch, glad you got to bbbb.  This is what I get for checking in once a day.  Hope Halifax is treating you well.


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## bbbb (26 Mar 2006)

Strike said:
			
		

> Former291er,
> 
> WRT your initial questions, the only thing I can think of is that your recruiter possibly meant to say that it is not guaranteed that you will fly the aircraft that you want to.  There are usually fewer positions available out of MJ for multi or jet, when compared to helo.
> 
> Inch, glad you got to bbbb.  This is what I get for checking in once a day.  Hope Halifax is treating you well.



Hi,

I couldn't help but notice your little comment there. Perhaps you should explain the "...you got to bbbb" bit?


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## Gouki (26 Mar 2006)

Sounds to me like glad he sorted you out.


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## Astrodog (26 Mar 2006)

Steve said:
			
		

> Sounds to me like glad he sorted you out.



  Welcome to Army.ca!!


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## double0three (30 Mar 2006)

Hi everybody, I have a question that is related to the OP in this thread.

Yesterday I received a letter in the mail from the Medical office in Ottawa, stating that before I can be considered I need to have a specialist look at my back, since I have been diagnosed with "chronic mild back pain".  This seems a little absurd, seeing as I have never had a single problem with my back, and in my medical interview I just mentioned my back has been slightly sore when standing for 8-9 hours.  This has never limited me in any way before, and it's not even correct to label it as 'pain'.  It's more of just temporary discomfort that I can experience if standing stationary for an entire day (happened once and a while when I worked at a retail store many years ago).  It goes away after a short while but it doesnt stop me from doing a single thing.  Also wouldn't everyone's back experience the same thing (especially if not wearing decent footwear) in the same situation??

Anyway the main point I'm getting to, is that I'm going Pilot, and I know selections are coming up soon.  I will have to go see a specialist right away, but does anyone know if I'm screwed in terms of getting in this year?? I can't believe something that isn't even an issue may prevent me from getting in.......


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## Inch (30 Mar 2006)

I got a similar letter, except mine said "Your application for pilot has been rejected due to..... If you wish to continue the application, you need to see a Neurologist for .....". So, I paid my hundred bucks and saw the neurologist who told me exactly what I knew all along, I was fine. He sent the report off to Borden or DCIEM and I got accepted a month or so later.

It shouldn't be a big deal, just don't waste time getting in to the specialist.


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## double0three (30 Mar 2006)

Good advice.  The first thing I did this morning was make a doctor's appt so I can get a referral.  I was just worried that the entire process could take a couple weeks, then I'll miss the selection.  But there's no use worrying, I'll just do what needs to be done and hope for the best.


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## Strike (30 Mar 2006)

Inch,

I got the same thing.  Mine said that I had temporal lobe epilepsy.  So I spent a few bucks of my own to get another EEG done and have it read both by a computer and a person.  Turns out that I had started falling asleep during the original EEG and the spot they were concerned about was when the administrator banged his clipboard to wake me up.

double,

All I can suggest is that you see a specialist on your own and have them evaluate you.  Then bring this work in to the recruiting centre and have them send it off to whoever it is that they want you to go see.

Good luck.


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## double0three (30 Mar 2006)

Thanks Strike, hopefully wait times aren't too long to go see a specialist on this, but I will certainly do so asap.  Kind of angering that something that I probably shouldn't have even bothered reporting at all in my medical interview in the first place is causing me grief.    I was thinking to myself: 'Is what I had at that time considered back pain?? Well I guess so, I'll check it off'.  Ah well I'll do what I can and let you all know how it turns out.


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## Former291er (30 Mar 2006)

Hope everything goes good with your back man. I just finished the PT test AGAIN,lol, so now i'm just waiting for the acs, haven't recieved the dates for it yet. I'm not too worried though. I have 0 flying hours on planes sims or even games. I'm just going to go in see if I can crash as little as possible,lol. And hope for the best. If I pass, sweet, if not I am hoping that Signals, CELE AIR, EME, or aerospace control have some CEOTP numbers for the new F/Y. If I fail I can live with it as long as I do my best so I'm gonna try not to get nervous and take it as it comes.
Good luck to anyone else going for ACS soon.
Rob.


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## maniac779 (31 Mar 2006)

bbbb said:
			
		

> Perhaps getting a Private Pilot License or commercial license would be the best way to go? With one of those you can actually FLY PLANES instead of waiting and doing non-pilot related 'training'. It takes a long time for pilot hopefuls to get their wings and start actually flying for the CF. The possibility of failing that 'training' kills your chances of becoming a CF pilot even before getting into a cockpit. A lot of people have experienced this situation, they enter the CF as pilot 32U and NEVER fly any CF plane because of 'training' that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLYING!! Many people have gone this way...
> 
> The way I see it, if you want to be a pilot, get your pilot license that way when you apply for CF pilot you actually have that skill already under your belt. This talk of bad habits during flight training is absolute nonsense. Anybody who passes the flight test and flies properly isn't displaying bad habits. For the people reading these posts up above, perhaps a description of the 'bad habits' PPL people have is in order? I for one did well on my flight test and can fly a plane without any of the sloppy habits some people attach to PPL and CPL pilots. It has been my experience that CPL pilots are awesome pilots. For those people who say that the flight test is not strict, flying a Cessna 150/172 is WAY different from flying a CF-18 or Herc.
> 
> I'm thinking I should change my signature to "Get your Pilot License if you want to be a pilot!".



Okay, I've monitored this thread and tried to keep my mouth shut so as to stay in my lane. However, reading stuff like this blows my mind.

First, my backround. I've spend over 4 years in the PRes in the Infantry... very heavily involved. I hold a Commerical Pilot Licenses with all the bells and whistles. I have a bit of time under my belt, however, I am BY NO MEANS an expert. I went to an Aviation College to get my diploma and my commerical ticket. I was flying before I went to school... since about age 16.

I've found in my travels that pilots, generally speaking, take themselves WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. (Like the guy quoted above for example). Buddy... its just a Private/Commerical license. Its not the giant deal you make it out to be. I bet your the type with the fur jacket, the aviators and the pens hanging out of your white dress shirt pocket. How may bars on your shoulders? 3 or 4?? If more people had the bank roll, flying would not be the exclusive fraternity it is now, because getting a private license is not that hard.

Like has been said above. Some people just aren't cut out to fly. There were guys in my class who could fly just fine but failed academically. Others had the book smarts but lacked the hands/feet/judgement/decision making to manage the airplane. The military is not the only organization to fail people out of a training program. People get on with companies and fail their PPC ride. People get on with AC and don't always make it either. Thats why they test you in the sim, to see if you've got it.

If you really think about it, getting selected at your CFRC for pilot is not that big a deal. If your healthy, you can do a bit of math, and you can follow some direction and make some dials read the right numbers, they'll give you a shot. Beyond that, its up to you. If you are a total screw up (and its possible that some one who is medically fit to be pilot is a screw up)... you're not going to make it.

There are sh*t pumps at every level in the military. You see them in the infantry all the time... in alot of trades. Thats because we can tolerate that and council people once they are in a rifle section. Pilot training doesn't have that luxury. In the military, similar to a flight program at a college or any other structured flying syallabus, if you can't do it in the alloted time, you're doing the kit bag drag, simple as that.

I got selected for Pilot. I got enrolled today and they are sending me to St. Jean 8 Apr. As far as I am concerned, they are just giving me a shot at it. The fact I have qualifications that are related to the occupation doesn't matter. Will my previous training help me in Moose Jaw?? Absolutley it will... as long as I have the right attitude about it. Guys who fail out of the Jaw with 1000+ hours probably didn't fail the program because they couldn't fly the airplane safely or effectively(they've been flying for 1000+, and they aren't dead. They are probably doing something right), they probably didn't make the cut cause they had a shitty attitude about changing what they've been doing civiy side for so long.

The attitude that having a PPL/CPL is your magic way to CF wings is absurd.

Just the ramblings from a former NCO... but what do I know anyway??  :


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## Strike (31 Mar 2006)

Maniac,

With a post like what I just read, I sincerely hope that you make it through the training.  It's people like you that make this job so much fun!!


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## double0three (1 Apr 2006)

Hi everyone.. just have an update for you all.  Today I went to the doctor to get a referral for a sports medicine specialist.  They told me it would take 3-4 months to get to see anyone. OUCH.  Well this was unacceptable, so I decided to start calling around.  Turns out the local physiotherapy office that is close by just happened to have an opening for early next week.  So I should be able to get my report that the medical office requires from there, and again hopefully send it off once more to the medical staff with the recruiting center.  Hopefully next week is not too late to still make it in for the year! *crossing my fingers*


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## double0three (7 Apr 2006)

Update again.

The medical analysis they performed has been dropped off to the Recruiting department.  God's speed, to Ottawa!


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## Zach15 (7 Apr 2006)

Hopefully they act quick for you, Its been over 3 weeks and my aircrew medical hasn't been updated from CFRC. I am starting to get worried I won't get the call in time for basic this summer..


    Zach


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## double0three (8 Apr 2006)

Geez I haven't even been to Aircrew selection yet, so I think I just might be screwed......

But as for you, what do they say when you call the recruiting center???


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## Former291er (8 Apr 2006)

Thats good that they got your medical done so quick doubleO. I haven't gone to acs yet either. I'm heading out for the april 24-28 acs. Time to start studying the guide.
Rob.


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## Zach15 (8 Apr 2006)

Well, I don't call in. I just stop by the recruiting centre - I pass it every day on my way to class, so its real easy. They don't mind it, I actually like going up because I can chat a little bit with the recruiters, which is nice. I love talking to people already in the forces, because its where I hope to be also some day.

                         Zach


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## double0three (9 Apr 2006)

Ah I see, so when you stop in, they don't have an information on whats going on??

And as for the late April ASC, that brings a glimmer of hope.  Last time they sent my medical to Ottawa, it took roughly 2.5-3 weeks to get back.... that means there is a *possibility* it will get back before then, and maybe they can squeeze me in


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## Zach15 (9 Apr 2006)

The local recruiting centres don't have anything to do with the medicals I did for aircrew in toronto, the most they can do is check my file to see if it has been updated to include those medicals, so they couldnt tell me anything about the progress of it. One thing I was curious about, if my medicals go through fine and I am to be picked up - who makes the call? My local recruiters? Is that where I go to sign the contract?

            - Zach


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## double0three (9 Apr 2006)

Ah makes sense.

But as far as I know, once you get 'the call' they will get you to come to your recruiting center to get sworn in and sign all your paperwork.


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## Former291er (9 Apr 2006)

Zach15 said:
			
		

> One thing I was curious about, if my medicals go through fine and I am to be picked up - who makes the call? My local recruiters? Is that where I go to sign the contract?
> 
> - Zach



Yes its the local recruiter. Once your medical is okay and you are put on the merit list, if you are picked a messege will be sent to your local CFRC with the job offer and details and they will call you in to go over the job offer and get sworn in. Yes you sign your contract when you get sworn in.
Good luck,
Rob.


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## Magravan (2 Aug 2006)

My application is for Pilot, Air Navigator, Aerospace Control, in that order. I just completed my PT / Eye test on August 1st, I had already done my interview, medical and aptitude on separate occasions. Now, my understanding is that ACS is the next phase, but the individual responsible for booking ACS in on leave until next week. 

Would anyone happen to know when the ACS sessions are available for the next little while? My step brother is getting married, and I'm hoping to have a better idea if I will be able to attend the ceremony, or if I should be getting a better wedding gift to compensate for my absence. 

Presuming I pass ACS for Pilot and Air Nav, does anyone know when the next Pilot Selection would come?

Thank you in advance for any information.


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## WannaBeFlyer (2 Aug 2006)

My filemanager emailed Trenton and they came back with some possible dates. You can choose the week you want to go so you shouldn't have to miss the wedding...


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## Magravan (3 Aug 2006)

That's good to know then, thank you. I regret the delay, but if I can get in a week later and attend his wedding, that'll fulfill my wish list nicely...

That said, should I pass the ACS for Air Nav and Pilot, does anyone know when the Selection Board comes together? I know that I'll have to be merit listed and considered and quite possibly not receive a call for some time, but I am curious when the process will be picking up again. I'm very excited about pursuing this career path, and so I apologize if it comes across as impatience.


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## Taptrick (18 Jul 2009)

Alright...  I searched all over the place for answers, maybe there are some here...

I'm an officer cadet since august 4th 2008.  Having enrolled in 2008, I fell in the "new" system (which was abandonned the following year) where you are assigned a "trade class" instead of a specific trade when you sign-up.  My "trade" is presently "air operations" which includes pilot, airborne electronic sensor operator (former air nav) and aerospace control.  My first (and only) choice is, of course, pilot.  I've been waiting for nearly a year to here answers about the trade I would be given.

Anyway, that being said, does anyone know when the pilot selection results comes out?


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## aesop081 (18 Jul 2009)

Taptrick said:
			
		

> which includes pilot, *airborne electronic sensor operator (former air nav) * and aerospace control.



Air Navigator became " Air Combat Systems Officer".

Airborne Electronic Sensor Operators are NCMs, not officer.


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## gcclarke (18 Jul 2009)

I will admit that I'm not speaking from experience here, in any way shape or form, but I'd be willing to bet that the answer is "shortly before you would otherwise be expected to begin your training for your particular trade."


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## Otis (18 Jul 2009)

Taptrick said:
			
		

> Alright...  I searched all over the place for answers, maybe there are some here...
> 
> I'm an officer cadet since august 4th 2008.  Having enrolled in 2008, I fell in the "new" system (which was abandonned the following year) where you are assigned a "trade class" instead of a specific trade when you sign-up.  My "trade" is presently "air operations" which includes pilot, airborne electronic sensor operator (former air nav) and aerospace control.  My first (and only) choice is, of course, pilot.  I've been waiting for nearly a year to here answers about the trade I would be given.
> 
> Anyway, that being said, does anyone know when the pilot selection results comes out?



I may be wrong, but as I understand the process, you're supposed to be informed after your first year of school what trade you have been granted. Maybe upon your return for the next school year there will be an orientation / selection interview??


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