# Remembrance



## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2009)

We have a number of Remembrance Day threads, some going back to 2001 or 2004, but none deal with this issue so:

The newspapers and the radio and even the TV, which is usually there to satisfy our need for instant gratification, are talking all this week about Remembrance. Over and over again they speak of “lives lost.”

The lives were not “lost” they were sacrificed. First, they were lived, so briefly and oh so brightly, and then they were offered up as a _holocaust_ - a burnt offering (ὁλόκαυστος) which was used for only the most important of all sacrifices - but not as a sacrifice to gods but rather as an offering to friends and to sons and lovers.

We take our _words of remembrance_ from two sources:

•	Lawrence Binyon’s For The Fallen wherein we find the words that are, now, our _Act of Remembrance_:

_They shall grow not old,  as we that are left grow old: 
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.* 
At the going down of the sun and in the morning 
We will remember them._

•	Ecclesiasticus – especially

_All these were honoured in their generations, and were the glory of their times._ Ecclesiasticus 44:7

_Their name liveth for evermore_ Ecclesiasticus 44:14

There is another bit of Ecclesiasticus we might want to consider:

_ And some there be, which have no memorial; who are perished, as though they had never been; and are become as though they had never been born; and their children after them_ [but] _ their glory shall not be blotted out._ Ecclesiasticus 44:9 7 13

As we approach 11 November we should think about a few things.

1.	This is *not* Veterans’ Day. Veterans started this day of Remembrance because, I think they looked at themselves and realized that they were not the “greatest generation.” The greatest were those who had made the supreme sacrifice. The veterans understood that their dead comrades could not be a “lost generation” – they had to be remembered, they had to be “honoured in their generations.”

Veterans don’t need remembrance – they provide, for family and friends and neighbours, a constant affirmation of their _service_ to mankind and their country and to their community and their family and, above all, to their comrades in arms.

2.	We do not need big ceremonies. The focus of Remembrance day is *remembrance* not ceremony. The cenotaphs are there as every-day reminders, but on 11 Nov you do not need to go. It is sufficient to stop – just for seconds if that’s all time you have – and to “remember” and recite just the shortest of the _words of remembrance_ – “their name liveth for evermore.” 

3.	The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Ottawa is not just to remember _unknowns_ – it represents  all those who have or will die in battle but, especially, those with no known grave.

4.	Remembrance Day isn’t about war, it is about selfless sacrifice. No one should care what the national _commentariat_, which now includes Rick Hillier, thinks about war or the politics of war. The only really important person at the big, national ceremony is the Silver Cross Mother – the GG and PM and CDS are just _bit players_ in supporting roles. She lays a wreath for us all. Croesus, King of Lydia, is reputed to have said: _” In peace the sons bury their fathers, but in war the fathers bury their sons. “_ The mothers and fathers of those who have sacrificed all deserve a special place in our heart sand minds.


5.	_In Flanders Fields_ is not about Remembrance. It is a *challenge* to carry the torch to victory. It is, probably, appropriate it recite it to Prime Minister Harper because the “dead” of 1915 are telling us all that they will not rest if we do not do our duty. If you want Remembrance poetry try:






*Wilfred Owen*

_ANTHEM FOR DOOMED YOUTH 

What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?  
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.  
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle  
Can patter out their hasty orisons. 
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;  
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs, – 
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;  
And bugles calling for them from sad shires. 
What candles may be held to speed them all?  
Not in the hands of boys but in their eyes  
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.  
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;  
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,  
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds. 

September - October, 1917_


(_Passing bells_ are those tolled at funerals – to _announce_ those who have passed. Orisons are funeral prayers.)

Or 





*Siegfried Sassoon*

_Base Details 

IF I were fierce, and bald, and short of breath,	 
  I’d live with scarlet Majors at the Base,	 
And speed glum heroes up the line to death.	 
  You’d see me with my puffy petulant face,	 
Guzzling and gulping in the best hotel,	
  Reading the Roll of Honour. ‘Poor young chap,’	 
I’d say—‘I used to know his father well;	 
  Yes, we’ve lost heavily in this last scrap.’	 
And when the war is done and youth stone dead,	 
I’d toddle safely home and die—in bed._


Or if you are of a romantic mind,





*Rupert Brook*

_The Soldier

If I should die, think only this of me: 
  That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
  In that rich earth a richer dust concealed; 
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware, 
  Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam, 
A body of England's, breathing English air,
  Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home. 

And think, this heart, all evil shed away, 
  A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given; 
  Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
  In hearts at peace, under an English heaven._


But you do not anything to *remember* except a human understanding of sacrifice and, perhaps, a bit of gratitude for it.


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* We, mostly use the word _condemn_ which means (Oxford) _”sentence to a punishment, especially death”_ or _”force (someone) to endure something unpleasant”_. Binyon wrote _con*t*emn_ which means _treat or regard with disdain_. Contemn, in our day, is largely a literary device. The two words are similar but not exact matches and Binyon’s choice is good. Death is not a punishment, is just the end of our lives as we understand them. What Binyon wanted to say was that the lives that were *sacrificed* would never be treated or regarded with disdain – they would always be the “best” lives ever lived.


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## PMedMoe (8 Nov 2009)

Mr. Campbell, thank you for that extremely poignant post.


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## Rifleman62 (9 Nov 2009)

Not to detract from ERC's wonderful post, why we must rememmber:

http://www.erskine.org.uk/news/general-news/

Astonishing Survey Results Leads To New Charity Partnership

School children believe Adolf Hitler was coach to Germany’s national football team and that the symbol of Remembrance Day is the McDonalds Golden Arches, according to new research released today Thursday 5th November.

The astonishing results emerged from a study of 2,000 children from across the UK, conducted by the veterans’ charity Erskine that revealed limited knowledge of the World Wars amongst today’s school children. 

The survey questioned children between the ages of nine and 15 on their knowledge of key World War triggers, events, people and dates.

More than one in 20 thought Adolf Hitler was in charge of Germany's football team, not leader of the Fascist Nazi Party. 12 per cent worryingly assume the McDonalds Golden Arches is the symbol of Remembrance Day, whilst forty per cent didn't even know that Remembrance Day falls on November 11th.

A quarter admitted they don't stop to think about the soldiers who sacrificed their lives but just over half do know where their local war memorial is located. Encouragingly though, it emerged that 70 per cent wish they are taught more about the World Wars at school.

Major Jim Panton, Chief Executive of Erskine, said: “Some of the answers to this poll have shocked us and it has shown that Erskine, amongst others, has a part to play, not just in caring for veterans but in educating society as a whole. As we approach Remembrance Day it is hard to believe that forty per cent of our children do not know when it is. There are also some positives to come out of this survey with the level of interest from children wishing to learn more at school about the World Wars. School children are the future of the country and it is important that we help them to learn about our history.” 

Following the survey Erskine will work in partnership with Their Past Your Future (TPYF), a UK-wide educations project, to develop the charity’s schools pack on the back of the survey results. This will enable Erskine and Their Past Your Future to start educating young people online about the sacrifices made during World War Two.

Andrew Salmond, TPYF Scotland Project Manager for Museums Galleries Scotland said: "This initiative offers a fantastic opportunity to inform young people about the experiences of war – both at home and abroad. Some, we know, will convey wartime loss and suffering, others will speak of daring and inspiration. However, all will be of great educational value, offering an insight to what previous generations have endured in times of conflict."

Some of the most interesting results include:

•	One in six believe Auschwitz is a World War Two based theme park 
•	Only half correctly said D-Day was the invasion of Normandy - a quarter believing it was 'Dooms Day'
•	A quarter thought a nuclear bomb was dropped on Pearl Harbour which spurred America's involvement
•	One in 20 think the Holocaust was the celebration at the end of the war 
•	One in 10 think the SS was Enid Blyton's Secret Seven, not Hitler's personal bodyguards
•	One in 12 think The Blitz was a massive cleanup operation in Europe after World War Two

Each year, Erskine cares for over 1350 veterans, many having served in World War Two and who are more than willing to share their firsthand experiences and memorable war stories with younger generations. 

Full results from Erskine’s survey are available to download at below.(at web page)

Survey Results by Region  

Survey Results


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## gaspasser (9 Nov 2009)

Mr. Campbell, 
Thank you for the etymology lesson in Remembrance.  Either way, They shall no longer grow old and will live in our hearts and minds as our freedom fighters, and we should give thanks for thier sacrifice.  I often and deeply down credit my presence on this planet to those that went before me and I now serve because of their legacy.  I shall never forget the stories my grandmother told me about the Blitz, bomb shelters and rationing.  
BTW, I was born in Britain.


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## Edward Campbell (10 Nov 2009)

Those who wonder why I often call for the return of _corporal_ punishment have only to read this story, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s _Globe and Mail_:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/cenotaph-vandalized-days-before-nov-11/article1357429/


> Cenotaph vandalized days before Nov. 11
> *Part of towering stone monument that has stood for 86 years in downtown Fredericton toppled*
> 
> 
> ...




Note that the _Globe_’s reporter, seeking that ‘essential’ *balance*, had to get a reaction from the _Fredericton Peace Coalition_, allowing them to make an anti-Afghan War statement on a story related to vandalism.

Anyone want to take bets on the ethnicity of the vandals? My bet is they are *not* visible minorities; they are most likely the children of _traditional_, white. Anglo/Franco, ‘settler’ type families. My guess is that they are "our" children - their grandfathers may have served.


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## Jungle (10 Nov 2009)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> My guess is that they are "our" children - their grandfathers may have served.



Yeah... now it's time for their fathers to beat the shit out of them !!  :rage:

Thanks for starting this thread Mr Campbell, the first post is very inspiring.


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## Edward Campbell (10 Nov 2009)

The Royal Canadian Legion has announced the name of the 2009/10 Silver Cross Mother. She is: Mrs. Della Marie Morley of East Saint Paul, Manitoba.







Her son, Cpl Keith Ian Morley was killed in the Panjawi District of Afghanistan on 18 September, 2006, while serving with ACoy, 2PPCLI.







This is now "our" war. Our dead and those who remember our dead are no longer wrinkled old men. They, CF members and their parents, are "us."


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## mariomike (10 Nov 2009)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The Royal Canadian Legion has announced the name of the 2009/10 Silver Cross Mother. She is: Mrs. Della Marie Morley of East Saint Paul, Manitoba.
> Her son, Cpl Keith Ian Morley was killed in the Panjawi District of Afghanistan on 18 September, 2006, while serving with ACoy, 2PPCLI.
> This is now "our" war. Our dead and those who remember our dead are no longer wrinkled old men. They, CF members and their parents, are "us."



I think self contained grief can be destructive. These mothers - whose own blood was spilled on foreign soil - should be honoured.


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## Edward Campbell (10 Nov 2009)

Notwithstanding the controversy about the creation and distribution of the medal, no one can doubt the sincerity and humanity of our Governor General as she presents the Sacrifice Medal, nor the *right* of these good people, and so many others, to have our respect and eternal condolences.

All photos reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29)  of the of the Copyright Act from today's _Ottawa Citizen_:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Gallery+Governor+General+presents+Sacrifice+Medals/2202988/story.html






Governer General Michaelle Jean comforts the mother of the late Private Michael Yuki Hayakaze as she and her son received the posthumous Sacfrice medal for Private Hayakaze Monday at Rideau Hall.





The widow of Lieutenant Christopher Edward Saunders, Gwendolyn Manderville (left) receives the posthumous Sacrifice Medal from GG Michaelle Jean in front of PM Stephen Harper (right) and Chief of Defence Staff General Walter Natynczyk (rear centre) at Rideau Hall Monday.





The widow of Dr. Glyn Raymond Berry, Valerie Berry, receives the Sacrifice medal from GG Michaelle Jean as PM Stephen Harper (right) and Chief of Defence Staff General Walter Natynczak (rear centre) look on. Dr. Berry was the only diplomat awarded the medal at the inagural ceremony.





As PM Stephen Harper (right) looks on, GG Michaelle Jean gave a big comforting hug and a kiss to Officer Cadet Kendra Mellish, the widow of Warrant Officer Frank Robert Mellish, as she received his posthumous Sacrifice Medal on his behalf Monday at Rideau Hall.





GG MICHAELLE JEAN gives a comforting hug to the widow of Major Paeta Derek Hess-von Kruedener, Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener, after she recieved the posthumous Sacrifice Medal for her husband Monday at Rideau Hall.





Young Maude Mercier (centre), the daughter of Joseph Christian Mario Mercier, M.S.C., C.D., bursts into tears alongside her mother, Madame Ardouin after receiving the Sacrifice Medal posthumously for her dad from GG Michaelle Jean.


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## PMedMoe (10 Nov 2009)

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.  In this case, they are worth more.


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## Edward Campbell (11 Nov 2009)

It strikes me, now and again, that our American friends get it “right.” They have *Veterans’ Day* on 11 November and *Memorial Day* on the last Monday in May.

Yesterday a veteran named James Cross sent this letter to the editor of the _Globe and Mail_ (it is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/letters-to-the-editor/nov-10-letters-to-the-editor/article1357125/


> Remembrance, then and now
> 
> For 80 years, I’ve attended Remembrance Day services (Remembrance Day – Nov. 9). I am proud of the contributions made by my father, and grandfather in the First World War. But now that the Great War veterans have gone, we should re-examine this commemoration and give more attention to those who served in the Second World War, Korea, Bosnia, Afghanistan and other wars and peacekeeping missions.
> 
> ...




Today, the _Globe and Mail_ published a letter from  Neil Willoughby that said, in part:

_“I prefer the foulest, coldest Nov. 11 possible to remember the hardships endured by soldiers of both world wars.

_[Canadians]_ survived the muck, rain and horrors of trench warfare at Ypres in 1915;_ [and] _battled through Italy during the wet and soggy winter of 1943. The Canadian victory at Vimy Ridge was carried out in a snowstorm on a terrible Easter Day in April, 1917. And who can forget our D-Day boys rushing, seasick, toward Juno Beach through hard, buffeting waves?

No, weather most foul on Nov. 11 is what I and, I hope, others need to really remember.”_


I believe *Remembrance Day* needs to stay on 11 November, but why can we not have our own, Canadian, *Veterans’ Day*, too? Maybe on the Sunday closest to 6 June?


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## The Bread Guy (11 Nov 2009)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I believe *Remembrance Day* needs to stay on 11 November, but why can we not have our own, Canadian, *Veterans’ Day*, too? Maybe on the Sunday closest to 6 June?



I know the Old Boys' Association of the regiment I used to be a member of moved their rituals of remembrance to June because the November chill was too much for the aging vets, so it's certainly not without precedent.

Also like the separation of sentiment, although that's going to take a LOOOOOOOOOONG time to educate folks about.


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## Kat Stevens (11 Nov 2009)

And when all the WWII vets are gone, do we then move it to July to coincide with the armistice in Korea?  And when all the Korea vets are gone, do we move it again to whatever date victory is declared in Afghanistan?  For 91 years, Nov 11 has served us just fine, let's let some traditions remain exactly that.


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## Rifleman62 (12 Nov 2009)

If you are interested, and have approximately 15 minutes to spare, download or listen online to "Fourteen August", narrated by Orson Wells. Very powerful with words like "God and Uranium on our side ......" The remembering segment towards the end really makes you pause.

450814 Columbia Presents Corwin - 14 August here: http://www.archive.org/details/OrsonWellesWartimeBroadcasts

It was written by Norman Corwin ( ahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Corwin ) and played on radio the significant date of 14 Aug 45. Corwin is still alive by the way.

If you have 60 minutes: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4668028

From the NPR website: On May 8, 1945, 60 million Americans tuned in to hear On A Note of Triumph, Norman Corwin's radio masterpiece marking the end of World War II in Europe. Lauded by Carl Sandburg as "one of the all-time great American poems," it was the most listened-to radio drama in U.S. history. 

Also of interest, is "Nazi Eyes On Canada" on the first link (small town Saskatchewan, the SSR, Dieppe).


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## mariomike (12 Nov 2009)

Thanks for posting, Rifleman62! They sent chills down my spine. Here's one by Red Foley called "Smoke on the Water":
There'll be nothin' left but vultures to inhabit all that land
When our modern ships and bombers make a graveyard of Japan":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLSmj9G0cE0
It "topped the charts for 13 consecutive weeks".

P.S. Notice how Orson Welles had a voice eerily similar to Canada's own Lorne Greene aka "The Voice of Doom"?


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## OldSolduer (12 Nov 2009)

I had the honour of escorting the Silver Cross Mother for Portage La Prairie's service.
What a great lady, my wife of course!


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## a_majoor (19 Nov 2009)

A bit late, but Pericles had some words that still ring down the centuries:



> What I would prefer is you should fix your eyes every day on the greatness of Athens as she really is, and fall in love with her. When you realize her greatness, then reflect what made her great were men with a spirit of adventure, men who knew their duty, men who were ashamed to fall below a certain standard. If they ever failed in an enterprise, they made up their minds that at any rate the city would not find their courage lacking to her, and they gave to her the best contribution that they could. They gave her their lives, to her and to all of us, and for their own selves they won praises that never grow old, the most splendid of sepulchers- not the sepulcher where their body is laid but where their glory remains eternal in men’s minds, always there on the right occasion to stir others to speech or to action.


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