# Queen's Diamond Jubilee Super Thread



## ModlrMike

Let's see where the speculation goes:

PM, GG unveil medal for Queen's diamond jubilee 

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says a special emblem and a commemorative medal will be produced to mark the Queen's diamond jubilee next year.

He says the medal will be awarded to Canadians who have made outstanding contributions to their communities and country.

Continued at link.


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## brihard

Why's the really nice side always gotta be on the reverse?


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## Michael OLeary

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Let's see where the speculation goes:



Instead of turning this thread into a repeat of the wailing and gnashing over the QGJM distribution, let's wait until some facts are known.

Staff notice: Attempts to stir the imaginary pot or incite the rabble may be deleted without warning. Questioning why your dubious post was deleted may invite a warning.


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## ModlrMike

My apologies. I did not intend to repeat the QGJM debate. 

On further reflection, let's lock this until further details are available.


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## chrisf

I can't pick out the wee little writing, the portrait is the front?


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## ModlrMike

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I can't pick out the wee little writing, the portrait is the front?


The effigy always faces forward.


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## 57Chevy

Details:
Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal

Fact Sheet: Link
FACT SHEET ON THE QUEEN ELIZABETH II DIAMOND JUBILEE MEDAL

A new commemorative medal is being created to mark the 2012 celebrations of the 60th anniversary of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II accession to the Throne. The Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal will be a tangible way for Canada to honour Her Majesty for her service to this country. At the same time, it will serve to recognize significant contributions and achievements by Canadians.

The Chancellery of Honours, as part of the Office of the Secretary to the Governor General, will administer the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal program.

The inaugural presentation ceremony of the Diamond Jubilee Medal will take place in 2012. Further details will be announced in due course.

Description of the medal

The obverse depicts a crowned image of the Sovereign, in whose name the medal is bestowed. The reverse marks the sixtieth, or diamond, anniversary of the accession to the Throne of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. The anniversary is expressed by the central diamond shape, by the background composed of a pattern of diamonds, and by the two dates. The Royal Cypher consists of the Royal Crown above the letters EIIR (i.e., Elizabeth II Regina, the latter word meaning Queen in Latin). The maple leaves refer to Canada, while the motto VIVAT REGINA means "Long live The Queen!"

The ribbon uses a new arrangement of the blue, red and white colours found in the 1953 Coronation Medal, the 1977 Silver Jubilee Medal, and the 2002 Golden Jubilee Medal.

The design of the Diamond Jubilee Medal was created by the Canadian Heraldic Authority, as part of the Chancellery of Honours.

Eligibility, selection criteria and distribution process

Information on the nomination process, eligibility and selection criteria, and distribution of the Diamond Jubilee Medal will be available at www.gg.ca/diamondjubilee :  at a later date.

FACT SHEET ON THE CREATION OF A NEW CANADIAN HONOUR

The Canadian Honours System was instituted in 1967, with the creation of the Order of Canada. Canadian honours recognize significant achievement, bravery and exceptional service to Canada or to humanity at large. Their creation follows a legal approval process, which may take several months, and which concludes with the approval of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, as the Sovereign of Canada.


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## Blackadder1916

This is a significant departure for Canada in that this particular commemorative medal has been approved and designed prior to any (publicized ) decision by the UK government concerning any similiar Diamond Jubilee medal.  In the past (1977's QSJM and 2002's QGJM) the ribbons for both countries' awards were identical and there were only slight differences in the medals.

There is some speculation over at ARRSE that the practice used for Queen Victoria's Jubilee Medals may be followed in the UK.  The ribbon for both occasions was the same and only the wording on the reverse was different to indicate for which jubilee it was awarded.  If a recipient of the 1887 Jubilee medal was to be similarly honoured for the Diamond Jubilee, a clasp noting "1897" was added to the original.


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## 211RadOp

http://gg.ca/document.aspx?id=14108&lan=eng

The medal is announced.

His Excellency the Right Honourable David Johnston, Governor General of Canada, announced today the eligibility criteria for the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal. The medal will commemorate the 60th anniversary of accession to the throne of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II as Queen of Canada, and pay homage to her six decades of service and commitment to our country.

In 2012, during the year of celebrations, 60 000 deserving Canadians will be recognized for their contributions to Canada or to a particular province, territory or community, or for their outstanding achievement abroad that has brought great credit to our country. They must also be a citizen or permanent resident of Canada. As well, this medal can be awarded posthumously as long as the recipient is alive on February 6, 2012, the date of the 60th anniversary of The Queen’s accession to the Throne.

The creation of the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal was announced by His Excellency on February 3, 2011, in the presence of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada. On this occasion, the design of the medal, created by the Canadian Heraldic Authority and approved by The Queen, was unveiled at Rideau Hall. The medal will be manufactured by the Royal Canadian Mint.


More on Link


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## Fishbone Jones

So I wonder how this is going to play out for Service members?

Are they to be part of the 60,000? Will we have another lottery fiasco? Is there to be a special run outside the 60,000 for the military?

_'Inquiring minds want to know!'_


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## krustyrl

Hehehe...was just thinkin' that myself...!!    :nod:


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## dapaterson

recceguy said:
			
		

> So I wonder how this is going to play out for Service members?
> 
> Are they to be part of the 60,000? Will we have another lottery fiasco? Is there to be a special run outside the 60,000 for the military?
> 
> _'Inquiring minds want to know!'_



"Fiasco" is such a... well... appropriate word.

On the plus side, we've also got 2017 to look forward to, for the "Canada 150" medal that will go alongside the Canada 125 medal, no doubt.


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## Journeyman

Well, let me be the first.....   :stirpot:

If my name makes the list (seriously??   )...I can only hope it's in the "awarded posthumously" catagory. 
I prefer "earned" medals to "lottery" medals.

op:



Mind you, the colours are somewhat......Airborne'esq   ;D


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## observor 69

I remember when it was for such distinguished activities as running the base Little League for a summer.


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## aesop081

So who's going to be the first CF member to wear the Canada 125, QGJM, QDJM and Canada 150........oh and a CD ??


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## Journeyman

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So who's going to be the first CF member to wear the Canada 125, QGJM, QDJM and Canada 150........oh and a CD ??


Imagine spending an entire career in NDHQ.....   :-\


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## Good2Golf

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Imagine spending an entire career in NDHQ.....   :-\



Theoretically, there are still a few folks serving in NDHQ who also have a QSJM!  

As an aside, was there a very rare "Constitution Repartriation Medal" issued to a select few in 1982?


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## Staff Weenie

Hell yeah - just imagine being the guy at the party with a rack of medals from lotteries! I don't need no GCS, just lots of dumb luck!


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## rmc_wannabe

I love the differences  in issuing seen here:

Canadian QDJM: 



> The medal is administered by the Chancellery of Honours at Rideau Hall and will be awarded to citizens and permanent residents of Canada who made a significant contribution to their fellow countrymen, their community, or to Canada over the previous sixty years. The medal can be awarded posthumously if the recipient is alive on 6 February 2012.




UK QDJM: 



> In the United Kingdom the medal will be awarded to members of the emergency services, Prison Service and Armed Forces personnel (Regular and Reserves) who have completed five full calendar years of service on 6 February 2012. It will also be awarded to living holders of the Victoria Cross and George Cross, and members of the Royal Household.



Seems as though the Brits are drawing their line pretty early to forgo the "lottery" system. Seems as though CofH is leaving the door wide open for interpretation by those looking to expand their rack through paperwork rather than actually doing something.

Lets see how this goes on 6 Feb  op:


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## OldSolduer

I'd like one but it means having to court mount the medals .....again......


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## Rheostatic

Didn't notice this before, the UK has published their design.


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## dowadiddy

I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.


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## Swingline1984

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.



 :boring:


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## SeaKingTacco

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.



Classy.


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## Remius

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.



So after 40 years of service you truly believe that you swore an oath to the Queen as an individual?  LOL.  Wow.  You really don't understand what you swore an oath to do you?


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## Infanteer

Well, if I'm going to the bar, I'll have what he's having.... :blotto:


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## Fishbone Jones

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.


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## The Bread Guy

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.


You've lost 2 years of service somewhere....
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/94678/post-1002934.html#msg1002934


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## 57Chevy

dowadiddy,
                  Have you noticed a trend since your post ?
                                                               
                  diddly doo dah  lol


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## Neill McKay

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.



If this really is your understanding of our system of government, you can save yourself a lot of grief by doing some reading on how a constitutional monarchy really works.


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## ModlrMike

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.



Clearly you conflate the Queen with the Crown. The Queen is a person, the Crown is the people (but also much more). While the Queen is mortal, the Crown is not. In Canada, the people and their country are represented by the Crown, the office held by the Queen (for the simplest explanation).


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## SeaKingTacco

Wow. To think he spent the last 38 or 40 years, serving, yet gritting his teeth the whole time.  And he had it wrong all along.


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## Remius

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Wow. To think he spent the last 38 or 40 years, serving, yet gritting his teeth the whole time.  And he had it wrong all along.



And not only that he had no issues serving and swearing allegiance to what he considers a dictator.... :


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## Strike

Crantor said:
			
		

> And not only that he had no issues serving and swearing allegiance to what he considers a dictator.... :



...or collecting the paycheck.


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## PMedMoe

Strike said:
			
		

> ...or collecting the paycheck.



....and now the pension.


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## medicineman

I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.

MM


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## dowadiddy

Crantor said:
			
		

> So after 40 years of service you truly believe that you swore an oath to the Queen as an individual?  LOL.  Wow.  You really don't understand what you swore an oath to do you?



The words of the oath are crystal clear (.....true allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, the Second, Queen of Canada.....) Maybe you are suggesting that the oath means duty, honour, integrity, courage. loyalty all to the CF and to the ideals of Canada.  Well, that is not what the WORDS, the written words, say.  I paraphrase the oath to mean unswerving loyalty to a named and well known famous person who lives in the UK and who has some vague connection to Canada.

Do I notice a trend in response to my post?  Yes, sadly I have.  I cannot understand why Canadians, closely associated with the CF (I assume you all are) do not put  loyalty and allegiance to your beautiful country and its great armed forces above everything else.  But I guess we need a bauble recognizing someones anniversary to  give us pride.  

Have I confused the terms  "Queen" and "Crown"?  I don't know and I don't care.  I'm not a constitutional expert.  All I know is that this overwhelming deference to and fawning over an individual or symbol (King, Queen or Crown or constitutional monarchy) just makes me want to scream.  All I know is I love my country and question why the ideals of Canada and what it represents (and medals) can't be given  precedence.  

Did I cringe and bite my tongue when I swore the oath many years ago?   Yes,  I admit it.  I have done things I am not proud of.  All I wanted to be then was a member of the best armed forces in the world - The Cdn Forces.  I held my tongue during that time and tried to do the best job I could to represent my country.  I didn't bring up the subject because the job was more important; and well, the NDA in effect says that it is a crime to make disloyal statements about the Crown or Queen.  You don't know who you can trust.  

No, the Queen is not a dictator.....not in that sense.  Grow up.

Are you suggesting that I should be ashamed of my paycheque/pension or collected them under false pretenses?  Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all.  In a democracy you have freedom of religion, political viewpoints, race, gender.  In a democracy, employers cannot discriminate based upon those things.  My friend, are you saying that because I believe in the ideals of Canada that I do not deserve to be compensated for serving my country instead of the Crown?  I'm loyal to my country and place it above any other vague symbol.  By your admission, it appears that you do not share that same loyalty to your country.  I feel sorry for you.  Sir Walter Scott was not a republican, as far as I know but he was Scottish which says a lot and I know how I would like to interpret: "Breaths there  a man with soul so dead who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land....."


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## Strike

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> ...Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all...



Your whole last paragraph makes no sense after this sentence because, guess what, we DO live in a constitutional monarchy, not a pure democracy.  If you thought otherwise then you weren't paying attention during history class.


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## Remius

Don't bother feeling sorry for me.  I actually know what a constitutional monarchy is all about and what our oath actually means, both the words as well as the symbolism of the crown and what it it means.  Heck just google Oath of Allegiance Canada and you might learn something about how it all works.  And you seem so hung up on the actual words "crytal clear" and all and felt the need to tell me to grow up about you saying the queen being a dictator for the last 60 years.  Your words seemed pretty clear to me.  And I'm not sure what democracy and or constitutional monarchy has to do with your hypocrisy.  You claim to have served Canada and it's values.  Just go look at what the Crown actually represents and get back to us...


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## Scott

:facepalm:


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## dowadiddy

medicineman said:
			
		

> I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.
> 
> MM


No I'm not that guy and I didn't make any waves, really, while I was serving.
  They issued me a commissioning scroll.  I didn't ask for it.  I didn't pay attention to the very kind salutation from the Queen but I did pay attention to what the two Canadians, who signatures appear (Gov Gen and Min of Def) had to say in the body of the  document.  I took those words seriously.  Are you saying that I didn't?  Is that what you are saying? Are you really, really  saying that because I tried to live up to the expectations of those two offices and not the "Crown" that I should have retired or something?  Do you really wish to say that to me?  Are you saying that I respected orders given to me by Canadian military superiors all the way to the Prime Minister, I suppose and to the Gov Gen (who is C in C of the CF) that I am somehow a worthless piece of dirt in your eyes.  You shouldn't be so cavalier in your comments.  I love my country and what it stands for.  I was proud to represent my country and its armed forces around the world.  I did the best job I could and it wasn't easy.  How dare you question my service.  you know nothing about me.   How dare you belittle the things I hold dear.   I love and cherish my country and my family and the Cdn Forces.


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## Fishbone Jones

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> The words of the oath are crystal clear (.....true allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, the Second, Queen of Canada.....) Maybe you are suggesting that the oath means duty, honour, integrity, courage. loyalty all to the CF and to the ideals of Canada.  Well, that is not what the WORDS, the written words, say.  I paraphrase the oath to mean unswerving loyalty to a named and well known famous person who lives in the UK and who has some vague connection to Canada.
> 
> Do I notice a trend in response to my post?  Yes, sadly I have.  I cannot understand why Canadians, closely associated with the CF (I assume you all are) do not put  loyalty and allegiance to your beautiful country and its great armed forces above everything else.  But I guess we need a bauble recognizing someones anniversary to  give us pride.
> 
> Have I confused the terms  "Queen" and "Crown"?  I don't know and I don't care.  I'm not a constitutional expert.  All I know is that this overwhelming deference to and fawning over an individual or symbol (King, Queen or Crown or constitutional monarchy) just makes me want to scream.  All I know is I love my country and question why the ideals of Canada and what it represents (and medals) can't be given  precedence.
> 
> Did I cringe and bite my tongue when I swore the oath many years ago?   Yes,  I admit it.  I have done things I am not proud of.  All I wanted to be then was a member of the best armed forces in the world - The Cdn Forces.  I held my tongue during that time and tried to do the best job I could to represent my country.  I didn't bring up the subject because the job was more important; and well, the NDA in effect says that it is a crime to make disloyal statements about the Crown or Queen.  You don't know who you can trust.
> 
> No, the Queen is not a dictator.....not in that sense.  Grow up.
> 
> Are you suggesting that I should be ashamed of my paycheque/pension or collected them under false pretenses?  Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all.  In a democracy you have freedom of religion, political viewpoints, race, gender.  In a democracy, employers cannot discriminate based upon those things.  My friend, are you saying that because I believe in the ideals of Canada that I do not deserve to be compensated for serving my country instead of the Crown?  I'm loyal to my country and place it above any other vague symbol.  By your admission, it appears that you do not share that same loyalty to your country.  I feel sorry for you.  Sir Walter Scott was not a republican, as far as I know but he was Scottish which says a lot and I know how I would like to interpret: "Breaths there  a man with soul so dead who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land....."


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## dowadiddy

Strike said:
			
		

> Your whole last paragraph makes no sense after this sentence because, guess what, we DO live in a constitutional monarchy, not a pure democracy.  If you thought otherwise then you weren't paying attention during history class.


Yes.  You are correct. that is what I said.  What I meant to suggest was that even though we live in Constitutional Monarchy, I thought we lived in a country with democratic ideals.  I guess we don't.

This is interesting.  Some of you may vote NDP or live in Toronto.  You may practice a lifestyle with which I am not comfortable.  On a more serious note, some of you may be atheists.  Even more seriously, some of you may have showed a lack of integrity at work or at home; or you may have committed a minor crime.  And yet I do not begrudge you (within reason)  your pay or your commissioning scrolls.   Because I tried to do the best job I could while in uniform and have profesed my true allegiance and loyalty to Canada and not anything which includes words/symbols like  King, Queen, crown, constitutional monarchy, you are seriously suggesting that I be denied the same benefits and respect that you feel you deserve.


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## The Bread Guy

medicineman said:
			
		

> I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.
> 
> MM


This one?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2008/01/22/ot-queen-080122.html


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## medicineman

That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM


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## OldSolduer

medicineman said:
			
		

> That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.
> 
> MM



My mother is from Scotland (parents Scots/Irish) and grandparents from Dad's side - Scottish grandpa and English Grandmum - I'm Canadian and nothing else.

This particular person, if he feels that strongly, should renounce his Canadian citizenship and re-locate to....oh......hmmmm......Brazil. Or Peru.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

What was the subject of this thread again?


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## dimsum

medicineman said:
			
		

> That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.
> 
> MM



Hey...now that I've seen the name, he was in the room next to me for a while back in Second Language training and used my computer to send something online.  I wonder what that is now...    :-\


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## Michael OLeary

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Hey...now that I've seen the name, he was in the room next to me for a while back in Second Language training and used my computer to send something online.  I wonder what that is now...    :-\



I bet CSIS knows.     ;D  >


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## medicineman

I wonder how much Sinn Fein got... :

MM


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## dogger1936

So I guess he doesnt want the medal?


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## DirtyDog

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.


Well one of them happened to be serving for there for a stint...


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## OldSolduer

dowadiddy said:
			
		

> I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
> While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.



Do us a favor:

*Stay retired*. Thanks for your words of condolence. In fact, maybe you should move right out of Canada. Retire somewhere else....


----------



## The Bread Guy

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> *What was the subject of this thread again?*


Good question.


----------



## Remius

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Good question.



Well I hope it is handled better than the 50th fiasco.  My unit saw two plugs get it by virtue of being the longest in rank.  As in 2 Cpls for life with very undistinguished careers.  But the formula they had made them qualify for it.  Sad.  Devalues it for the ones that really deserved it.


----------



## Container

The Royals have attended some repatriation ceremonies and have visited war zones to visit the troops.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/ArmedForces/IraqandAfghanistan/IraqandAfghanistan.aspx


----------



## Journeyman

Crantor said:
			
		

> Sad. Devalues it for the ones that really deserved it.


*Personally*, I think it's sad that anyone would hold a commemorative medal in such high regard.


----------



## Remius

Journeyman said:
			
		

> *Personally*, I think it's sad that anyone would hold a commemorative medal in such high regard.



Well personnally I think all decorations, commemorative or other should be held in high regard.  With varying degrees of course.  Unfortunately the way they are handed out and who gets it and for what is what tarnishes them.  The British have it right.  And those that qualify should be proud to wear them.  The 125 medal became the RSM/CO cronie award and the QGJ became a joke with it's algebra calculation.

This next one stands to be much of the same because the guidelines seem as vague as the last two.  There are soem people that deserve that recognition but will likely not get it or if they do will be lumped in with everyone else and the value we attribute it to.  If they had said "every soldier that served three times in theatre" we would perceive it differently than if we said "every MP will have a certain amount to give out at their discretion to deserving canadians".


----------



## dogger1936

Journeyman said:
			
		

> *Personally*, I think it's sad that anyone would hold a commemorative medal in such high regard.



I agree. It's great for when some soldiers play dress up; makes them look like they've done something. A CD, 125, QGJ, makes people feel special around civilians who don't know the difference between that and a IFOR medal with a 3 on it, GSM with a bush of mapleleafs and a sacrifice medal. 

Why would anyone want those medals are beyond me.

None the less I'm certain people are already jockeying to ensure they get it. Heck they may get a second row of ribbons outta this one.


----------



## OldSolduer

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I Why would anyone want those medals are beyond me.
> 
> None the less I'm certain people are already jockeying to ensure they get it. Heck they may get a second  more than a CD row of ribbons  outta this one.



Fixed.

For what its worth, I agree.  These medals are nice BUT they often go to the wrong persons.


----------



## klink1983

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> I remember when it was for such distinguished activities as running the base Little League for a summer.



When I was in the reserves way back when, about 15 Golden Jubilee medals were awarded at my unit, we were informed it was purely by computer lottery....the pattern of the pers receiving them was pretty clear in the sense of favouritism....Officers who barely did anything probably nominated each other, and I know of one guy who had 2 DUI charges pending withing 18 months of each other. More deserving people were never considered. 

In the UK (wild guess of course) every serving military member who is in at the time the medal is released (terminology probably wrong) gets one. Once again, this sentence is based on hearsay....... clarification please from those who are well versed in this subject...


----------



## NavalMoose

I believe in the UK, 5 years in will earn you this medal, makes sense to me.  No lottery, no old boys network, just a straight yes or no.


----------



## Thompson_JM

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> What was the subject of this thread again?



Thinking up ways to weasel a QDJM out of someone so we can make our Chest racks look bigger......  ;D

Seriously though, Now that I have a GCS, and a CD on my chest I wouldn't have a problem wearing one of the "gimmie" medals like the Diamond Jubilee, but I also would make no bones about what it is... It's a "They gave to me and told me to wear it" medal... not like the Campaign Star (which some days I was convinced I was gonna get posthumously...  ) or the CD (12 years undetected crime or not, I'm still proud to have made the milestone, And I respect those who have it for having the dedication to country, esp the ones with one or two rosettes!) 

I've also heard (Take it with a grain of salt for what it is worth) that some people just wrote their MP asking for the Gold Jubilee medal and why they felt they should get it, and ended up getting one...  So we'll see what happens with it... 

My concern with the QGJM was the people who got it and then attempted to make it out to be this great big deal that "THEY" were "Awarded" it.....  :  

I think the UK has got the right idea 100%  Give it to EVERYONE in the Forces, and Lightbar Jobs with over 5 years in... Nice, simple, fair, and to the point... No schlepping around with it... 

If only we could be so simple....


----------



## 57Chevy

Governor General to Strike Diamond Jubilee Medal at the Royal Canadian Mint

http://www.gg.ca/document.aspx?id=14364

OTTAWA — His Excellency the Right Honourable David Johnston, Governor General of Canada, accompanied by the Honourable James Moore, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, and Mr. James B. Love, Chair of the Royal Canadian Mint Board of Directors, will participate in a symbolic striking of the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal. This event will take place on Tuesday, December 6th, 2011, at 12:00 p.m., at the Royal Canadian Mint, in Ottawa (320 Sussex Drive).

On this occasion, His Excellency will deliver an address and strike the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal, created to mark the 2012 celebrations of the 60th anniversary Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II’s accession to the Throne as Queen of Canada.

First announced on February 3, 2011, this commemorative medal is a tangible way for Canada to honour Her Majesty for her service to this country, and to celebrate significant contributions and achievements by Canadians. During the year-long celebrations, 60 000 deserving Canadians will be recognized. The medal will be manufactured by the Royal Canadian Mint at its Ottawa facilities.


----------



## OldSolduer

Well here it comes. 

The infighting over who should get it....let the games begin.

op:


----------



## 57Chevy

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got one Jim.
It would certainly go well with the one you were awarded here;

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/96712.0.html

 :cheers:




*awarded


----------



## medicineman

Agreed.


----------



## aesop081

Give one to Stephen Staples  >


----------



## medicineman

What makes you think he hasn't already nominated himself for it (along with a few of his friends)?

MM


----------



## daftandbarmy

medicineman said:
			
		

> What makes you think he hasn't already nominated himself for it (along with a few of his friends)?
> 
> MM



The CO of my unit back in the 90s did exactly that when the 125 medals came out. Talk about a revealing moment of truth!


----------



## Franko

In all honesty, who really cares?

To the people that do, it's a gimmie medal and will be seen for what it really is - nothing. 

It will be met with the same rolling of eyes at Legions across Canada and rank alongside with the 125 and the Gold Jubilee, don't think it won't either.

At least to get a CD you actually have to do something.


----------



## OldSolduer

57Chevy said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got one Jim.
> It would certainly go well with the one you were awarded here;
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/96712.0.html
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *awarded



Thanks - then I have to remount all the medals.....


----------



## GAP

Queen given early Diamond Jubilee bling from Canada
Postmedia News  Dec 20, 2011
Article Link
 By Randy Boswell

Queen Elizabeth has received an early gift from Canada to mark next year’s 60th anniversary of her time on the throne: a diamond, gold and platinum brooch symbolizing her “special relationship” with a Manitoba-based military regiment.

The brooch, commissioned by the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery and designed by the Montreal jewelry firm Birks, features a maple leaf encrusted with 60 individual diamonds, a gold cannon and a stylized crown set with a sapphire, emeralds and rubies.

The Diamond Jubilee gift was personally presented to the Queen last week at Buckingham Palace by two senior members of the regiment, which is based at Canadian Forces Base Shilo, near Brandon, Man.
end


----------



## Pusser

That's pretty cool!


----------



## volition

Why do they not adopt the UK way?? 
It's going to be another fiasco!!


----------



## dogger1936

I smell parades...lots and lots of parades...


----------



## aesop081

volition said:
			
		

> It's going to be another fiasco!!



Of course it will be. Does it matter though ? Some will get it, most won't. Its a meaningless medal so people who wear it and act like they are the best thing since sliced bread will be suitably "deflated" by the rest. The rest know it is meaningless and will just wear it and be quiet.



			
				dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I smell parades...lots and lots of parades...



Sargent-Major marching up and down the square........


----------



## Jarnhamar

Chicks won't know the difference.

I'm gonna try and get my name nominated for this!
Can I get those other medals retroactive?


----------



## OldSolduer

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I smell parades...lots and lots of parades...



I'd rather go to the cinema!


----------



## dogger1936

Practice my piano.


----------



## Teeps74

Sarge, I'd rather be reading my book then...


----------



## ekpiper

I'd like to be at home with the wife and kids.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Very well, off you go then.......

 ;D


----------



## TN2IC

Bloody Army, dunno what it's coming to! Right, then- Sergeant Major, marching up and down the square: GO! Left, right, left, right..


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Can we just watch the video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1TAfUdlr2o&feature=related


----------



## jollyjacktar

recceguy said:
			
		

> Can we just watch the video :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1TAfUdlr2o&feature=related



thanks Recce for the Christmas pressy.  Course, after several Scotch'sssss and Drambuiesssss and Wine with dinner..... it's brilliant. Still.  :rofl:


----------



## Nfld Sapper

recceguy said:
			
		

> Can we just watch the video :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1TAfUdlr2o&feature=related



 :goodpost:

 ;D  :subbies:


----------



## Hurricane

Nomination process

To ensure that a variety of fields of activity are recognized, partner organizations have been invited to nominate candidates from their community or organization for this national honour.

Members of the general public are welcome to contact the offices of members of Parliament, senators, lieutenant governors, territorial commissioners, or provincial and territorial premiers to suggest names of candidates.

taken from http://www.gg.ca/document.aspx?id=14019&lan=eng


----------



## a_majoor

What if the Canadian Forces simply declined the medals due to the non inclusive nature of the presentations? 

If it is a commemorative medal, then it should be awarded on a similar basis as the British are using (i.e in for a set length of time, or awarded to everyone who joined that year or some other standard). If it is an award of merit, then the "merit" needs to be clearly spelled out. We would be all better off if an official certificate was printed, signed by the GG and CDS and presented to every serving member so they could frame it and put it on the "I love me" wall.


----------



## Pusser

Thucydides said:
			
		

> What if the Canadian Forces simply declined the medals due to the non inclusive nature of the presentations?
> 
> If it is a commemorative medal, then it should be awarded on a similar basis as the British are using (i.e in for a set length of time, or awarded to everyone who joined that year or some other standard). If it is an award of merit, then the "merit" needs to be clearly spelled out. We would be all better off if an official certificate was printed, signed by the GG and CDS and presented to every serving member so they could frame it and put it on the "I love me" wall.



Signed certificates will be issued.


----------



## Rifleman62

> Members of the general public are welcome to contact the offices of members of Parliament, senators, lieutenant governors, territorial commissioners, or provincial and territorial premiers to suggest names of candidates.



Your MP for example gets a quota to _distribute_/award to persons in their constituency.  In the past, for other similar type medals, I have nominated persons in the community that I though were worthy. Using the military nomination requirements puts your paperwork head and shoulders above the usual letter.

Attending the MP's award "ceremony" can be a hoot. Judy Washa Washa Lee, as I called her (formally NDP North Winnipeg), presented medals to all her favs, tin foil hat NDP cohorts, with one exception. Judy gave glowing personal accounts of everyone, then read from a written recommendation, that I thought was a little bitter grapes (one less for the team).

Note: If you forward a recommendation to your MP, Senator, etc, follow up with regular phone calls or a letter. Get two signatures as support for your recommendation. If possible get one or both from an official at some level (MLA/City Councillor).


----------



## BDTyre

I say just start a Facebook campaign promoting yourself. What better way to bring attention to yourself than social media?


----------



## volition

According to this everyone with 5 years in for Canada too!

http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=5630638


----------



## Fishbone Jones

volition said:
			
		

> According to this everyone with 5 years in for Canada too!
> 
> http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=5630638



That's not the way I read it. It sounds like having at least five years is just one of the requisites to get in the running.  

We'll see.


----------



## volition

You might be correct! Here's the Ottawa citizen saying the same thing.

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/touch/story.html?id=5630638


----------



## dogger1936

I'd like to see 5 years svc and two tours to Afghanistan. That'll cancel out all the CD 125 cancers out there.


----------



## Halifax Tar

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I'd like to see 5 years svc and two tours to Afghanistan. That'll cancel out all the CD 125 cancers out there.



It also cancels out many of the non-land occupations that makes it especially difficult or near impossible for them to get a tour to AFG. Just because a soldier/sailor/airperson hasn't been to AFG doesn't mean they have been siting on their hands hiding for the last 10 years.

But I'm fairly certain you were just being sarcastic


----------



## PuckChaser

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> It also cancels out many of the non-land occupations that makes it especially difficult or near impossible for them to get a tour to AFG. Just because a soldier/sailor/airperson hasn't been to AFG doesn't mean they have been siting on their hands hiding for the last 10 years.



There's always Op Attention.  >


----------



## Halifax Tar

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There's always Op Attention.  >



You are completely correct. All I mean is that the CF does more than just the AFG mission what ever name its under.  

I know many Army cooks, for example, who have been very busy on HMC ships but have yet to be deployed to AFG. 

For the record I would like to see an all or nothing approach by the government for this medal, WRT its issuing to CF members.


----------



## dapaterson

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> For the record I would like to see an all or nothing approach by the government for this medal, WRT its issuing to CF members.



I suspect that ship has sailed (no pun intended).


----------



## Halifax Tar

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I suspect that ship has sailed (no pun intended).



Oh ya I know that's the case.

It was fine use of a pun in any case  ;D


----------



## dogger1936

Maybe we can use it to reward the worst soldiers. Give it to the most incompetent, lazy people in every trade CF wide.

If I were king...

oh look...that guy has a Golden Jubilee.....


----------



## Stoker

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I'd like to see 5 years svc and two tours to Afghanistan. That'll cancel out all the CD 125 cancers out there.



So if I wear the Canada 125 and haven't been to Afganistan what does that make me?


----------



## Journeyman

op:                         [just watchin' the show now   ;D  ]


----------



## dogger1936

Lucky?


----------



## aesop081

My cousin is on his 5th tour to Afghanistan.....how many QDJM does he get ?


----------



## dogger1936

Threve.


----------



## dogger1936

Next I suggest we give the medal to all Navy personnel who have gold anchors were in Haiti in a summer month and all air force personnel who have flown 50km in one day (that way we can get the glider pilots in too).  All army per's who have been charged in the past fiscal year for something that was rather outstanding.

See how silly that is?

Red the other two posts the same way.

It's a piece of ribbon that denotes you were alive and serving during the Queens Reign. If you don't get the medal I'm certain you will remember being alive during this period of time and life will go on.

Now I'm off to start a facebook group using all my accomplishments to try and define what criteria the medal should have. ;D


----------



## Stoker

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Lucky?



I really don't know what your military experience since you didn't post it but from the tone of your posts here it must have been extensive and i'm sure you deserve it. Despite your personal feelings about what honors and awards people have been awarded please don't don't infer that their service is anything less than yours.
Perhaps I can get your name so I can nominate you for your time at the cadet detachment?


----------



## armyvern

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> So if I wear the Canada 125 and haven't been to Afganistan what does that make me?



Just as dedicated and committed to your country as every other CF member who volunteered for service - despite the asshats in our midst who are so haughty to believe otherwise.


----------



## dogger1936

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> I really don't know what your military experience since you didn't post it but from the tone of your posts here it must have been extensive and i'm sure you deserve it. Despite your personal feelings about what honors and awards people have been awarded please don't don't infer that their service is anything less than yours.
> Perhaps I can get your name so I can nominate you for your time at the cadet detachment?



Maybe we can just exchange names and be pen pals. Hang out and become BFF's.

I don't feel the need to post my MPRR on my profile and don't really care that much about medals. Mine will sit in a box somewhere soon so the kids can have them to use in a collage for art projects or make earrings or whatever they want.

You seem like the type of guy worried about medals.  I don't require/want anymore than I have.

I don't require any for the cadet detachment work thanks in between surgeries I have not been at 100% and not deserving of recognition. However thank you for the veiled talk. Love it. Makes me laugh a little at the sadness of it.

Apparently you have not noticed my posts were in jest.  Maybe I didnt spell it out earlier when I wrote that. Thus I'll write it here again.

Nice MPRR Stoker


----------



## brihard

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume sloppy reporting on the 'five years' thing. They're probably reading the Brit criteria and mistakenly assuming it applies to us.


----------



## Stoker

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Maybe we can just exchange names and be pen pals. Hang out and become BFF's.
> 
> I don't feel the need to post my MPRR on my profile and don't really care that much about medals. Mine will sit in a box somewhere soon so the kids can have them to use in a collage for art projects or make earrings or whatever they want.
> 
> *For a guy who doesn't care about medals you certainly talk about them enough and proud of them that you want them in a box *
> 
> You seem like the type of guy worried about medals.  I don't require/want anymore than I have.
> *
> Not really, I have what I have*
> 
> I don't require any for the cadet detachment work thanks in between surgeries I have not been at 100% and not deserving of recognition. However thank you for the veiled talk. Love it. Makes me laugh a little at the sadness of it.
> 
> *I really hope you are fit soon.*
> 
> Apparently you have not noticed my posts were in jest.  Maybe I didn't spell it out earlier when I wrote that. Thus I'll write it here again.
> 
> Nice MPRR Stoker



Sometimes its hard to see what is "jest"  and what is serious. I simply didn't like your snide remarks even they were in jest.


----------



## dogger1936

Anyway. Instead of arguing on the internet I'll just and give you some +1's and go see what there is to do outside on such a beautiful day


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Alright kiddies. Time to put the toys away, have a juice and a nap.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Pusser

volition said:
			
		

> According to this everyone with 5 years in for Canada too!
> 
> http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=5630638



The person who wrote this article made a mistake and assumed that the criteria for awarding it in Canada would be the same as in the UK.  British Armed Forces personnel with five years service will receive the British Diamond Jubilee Medal.  The Canadian one will be more selective (i.e. members will have to be nominated and selected based on merit).  Do the math, only 60,000 medals will be issued in Canada, if they gave one to every CF member with five years service, there wouldn't be any left over for anyone else.

Gee, a reporter failing to research something properly and speaking out of his/her a$$?  Will wonders never cease?


----------



## NavalMoose

That reporter also got the date wrong for the Queen's ascension to the throne by 2 years...lol


----------



## CountDC

Pusser said:
			
		

> Gee, a reporter failing to research something properly and speaking out of his/her a$$?  Will wonders never cease?



you dare besmirch our esteem reporters who work 30 hours a day 10 days a week to ensure we are well informed?  I would take you to task but I have to celebrate - a reporter has just announced that Elvis has been found alive and well living at the North Pole.  He was found during a SAR for a sled pulled by reindeer shot down by our glorious pilots when the rider failed to respond to radio calls in the wee hours of the 25 Dec.


----------



## orca73

I am very disappointed with other service personal putting down those who have not serviced overseas.  We have all signed on the dotted line, willing to give our lives for our country.  Unfortunately, not everyone is required to go over.  Just because in my 20 year career, I have not completed a tour, doesn't mean I haven't helped to serve my country.  Who do you think has completed the paperwork for you to go over, seen to your pay, rations, stores, family issues at home.  Please stop degrading those of us who have not been fortunate to go over.   :rage:


----------



## Fishbone Jones

orca73 said:
			
		

> I am very disappointed with other service personal putting down those who have not serviced overseas.  We have all signed on the dotted line, willing to give our lives for our country.  Unfortunately, not everyone is required to go over.  Just because in my 20 year career, I have not completed a tour, doesn't mean I haven't helped to serve my country.  Who do you think has completed the paperwork for you to go over, seen to your pay, rations, stores, family issues at home.  Please stop degrading those of us who have not been fortunate to go over.   :rage:



That point has been established, and validated, in a number of threads already, including this one. Don't worry about tour snobs.

Back to our regularly, scheduled programming.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Pusser

recceguy said:
			
		

> That point has been established, and validated, in a number of threads already, including this one. Don't worry about tour snobs.
> 
> Back to our regularly, scheduled programming.
> 
> Milnet.ca Staff



Concur.  They also serve who only stand and wait (apologies to Milton).

On another note, I disagree with the concept of willingly giving up our lives for our country.  I willingly go in harm's way in the service of my country and accept that death is a possibility, but I do not go gently into that good night (apologies to Thomas).


----------



## ModlrMike

Of course of this gnashing of teeth overlooks the very real possibility that one can be awarded the medal for non-service activities. Witness my QGJM. I was far too junior in rank to have won the lottery and it was only many weeks after the presentation that I learned that my community group had put me forward.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Of course of this gnashing of teeth overlooks the very real possibility that one can be awarded the medal for non-service activities. Witness my QGJM. I was far too junior in rank to have won the lottery and it was only many weeks after the presentation that I learned that my community group had put me forward.



Actually, that point has been inferred quite extensively, including promoting yourself on Facebook, ;D in this exact thread. 

Thanks anyway  

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## BDTyre

In the vein of promoting ourselves on Facebook, I strongly feel doing a video resume a la Barney Stinson is the best approach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rMVx2JbztU

I suggest, in addition to having it on Facebook and Youtube, having a stack of burned copies and pre-paid mailers so you can send it out to all the community leaders. Just remember: you can't score points without making shots on goal.


----------



## Ralph

One prerequisite: can you sing "God Save the Queen"? If too many pers are successful with the first verse, whittle them down by requiring the other ones (or the special bonus Canadian verse)...or that it all be sung in key.


----------



## dapaterson

Ralph said:
			
		

> One prerequisite: can you sing "God Save the Queen"? If too many pers are successful with the first verse, whittle them down by requiring the other ones (or the special bonus Canadian verse)...or that it all be sung in key.



Yes!  Let's nominate this guy!


----------



## OldSolduer

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Yes!  Let's nominate this guy!



Yes Freddie was a queen for sure.


----------



## Hurricane

Ralph said:
			
		

> One prerequisite: can you sing "God Save the Queen"? If too many pers are successful with the first verse, whittle them down by requiring the other ones (or the special bonus Canadian verse)...or that it all be sung in key.



Judging from that stint I seen on the news, that excludes a lot of the Members of Parliament.


----------



## aratofsomesort

Can anyone explain why there are different criteria for awarding a medal for celebrating our Queen's Diamond Jubilee should be so different from country to country?

UK is awarding said medal to servicemen, emergency workers, police, etc with more than 5 years service while Canda has 60K medals? I would have thought it would be the same criteria across the Commonwealth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Diamond_Jubilee_Medal


----------



## aesop081

2 different countries.....issuing 2 different medals.....part of 2 separate honours & awards systems........


----------



## Pusser

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> 2 different countries.....issuing 2 different medals.....part of 2 separate honours & awards systems........



Yup.  He's got it.

The only real similarity will be that both medals will use the same ribbon.


----------



## FSTO

Like the 125 medal, the distribution will be a cluster****. Despite the good intentions of the CANFORGEN.


----------



## PViddy

Would anyone be able to post the contents of this CANFORGEN or provide ref, out of curiosity.

Cheers

PV


----------



## Occam

FM NDHQ CDS OTTAWA
TO CANFORGEN
BT
UNCLAS CANFORGEN 006/12 CDS 002/12
SIC WAK

SUBJ: QUEENS DIAMOND JUBILEE MEDAL
BILINGUAL MESSAGE / MESSAGE BILINGUE
1. ON 03 FEB 11, IT WAS ANNOUNCED THAT A DIAMOND JUBILEE MEDAL WOULD 
BE STRUCK IN 2012 TO COMMEMORATE THE SIXTIETH ANNIVERSARY OF THE 
ACCESSION OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH THE SECOND TO THE THRONE AS 
QUEEN OF CANADA. THE MEDAL WILL BE ADMINISTERED BY THE CHANCELLERY 
OF HONOURS AT GOVERNMENT HOUSE. THE INAUGURAL PRESENTATION CEREMONY 
WILL TAKE PLACE IN 2012
2. THE QUEEN ELIZABETH II DIAMOND JUBILEE MEDAL WILL BE A TANGIBLE 
WAY FOR CANADA TO HONOUR HER MAJESTY FOR HER SERVICE TO THIS 
COUNTRY. AT THE SAME TIME, PRESENTATION OF THE MEDAL WILL SERVE TO 
HONOUR CONTRIBUTIONS AND ACHIEVEMENTS MADE BY CANADIANS, 
REPRESENTING THE FULL BREADTH OF OUR SOCIETY. DURING THE YEAR OF 
CELEBRATION, 60 000 DESERVING CANADIANS WILL BE RECOGNIZED
3. MEMBERS OF THE CF JUSTIFIABLY TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN THEIR 
ASSOCIATION WITH HER MAJESTY AS HEAD OF OUR ARMED FORCES. THE QUEEN 
HAS ALWAYS TAKEN A KEEN INTEREST IN THE CF AND ITS MEMBERS. SHE HAS 
ALSO BEEN A STELLAR EXAMPLE OF SERVICE TO THE NATION, OF DEDICATION 
AND OF DIGNITY FOR NEARLY SIX DECADES
4. THE CF HAVE BEEN ALLOCATED 11 000 MEDALS, WHICH MEANS THAT 
APPROXIMATELY 10 PER CENT OF CF MEMBERS WILL BE RECOGNIZED ON THIS 
OCCASION. THE SELECTION WILL BE MADE ON THE BASIS OF MERIT USING A 
PROCESS SIMILAR TO THAT OF THE ORDER OF MILITARY MERIT (ORMM). THE 
FIVE ORMM NOMINATING COMMANDS, NAMELY VCDS, RCN, CA, RCAF AND CMP, 
WILL BE GIVEN AN ALLOCATION CORRESPONDING TO THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC 
WEIGHT, ALONG WITH DIRECTION TO ENSURE THAT THE SELECTION IS 
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CF POPULATION. THE AFOREMENTIONED COMMANDS 
WILL SOLICIT NOMINATIONS FROM THEIR UNITS AND FORMATIONS AND MAKE A 
SELECTION THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS BELOW. THE NOMINATIONS WILL BE 
CONSOLIDATED BY DH R AND SUBMITTED TO GOVERNMENT HOUSE FOR APPROVAL
5. THE CF HAVE CRITERIA THAT ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE NATIONAL 
CRITERIA FOR THE MEDAL. TO BE ELIGIBLE A CF MEMBER SHALL:
A. BE A CANADIAN CITIZEN OR PERMANENT RESIDENT OF CANADA (SOME 
HOLDERS OF HONORARY APPOINTMENTS DO NOT MEET THIS REQUIREMENT AND 
THEREFORE THEIR CANDIDATURE CANNOT BE CONSIDERED IAW NATIONAL 
CRITERIA)
B. BE IN SERVICE ON 06 FEB 12 IN OR WITH THE REGULAR FORCE, PRIMARY 
RESERVE, COATS, CANADIAN RANGERS, OR IN AN HONORARY APPOINTMENT 
(MEMBERS WHO ARE RELEASED, NES OR ON THE SUPP RES LIST ON 06 FEB 12 
ARE NOT ELIGIBLE, SEE SUBPARA 5) BELOW)
C. HAVE SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED INITIAL TRADE TRAINING ON 06 FEB 12
D. HAVE A RECORD OF GOOD CONDUCT, MEANING THAT THE MEMBER HAS NOT 
BEEN AWARDED A PUNISHMENT OTHER THAN A MINOR PUNISHMENT AS DEFINED 
IN QR O 104.13 OR A FINE OF MORE THAN 500 DOLLARS (ANY OFFENCE FOR 
WHICH A PARDON HAS BEEN GRANTED BEFORE 06 FEB 12 SHALL NOT BE TAKEN 
INTO ACCOUNT) AND
E. HAVE MADE A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO THE CF, THEIR COMMUNITY 
OR CANADA AS A WHOLE, OR HAVE REALIZED AN OUTSTANDING ACHIEVEMENT 
ABROAD THAT BRINGS CREDIT TO THE CF OR CANADA
6. FURTHER GUIDANCE ON SELECTION IS PROVIDED AS FOLLOWS:
A. MERIT IS THE SOLE CRITERIA FOR SELECTION
B. RANK, POSITION AND LENGTH OF SERVICE CANNOT ON THEIR OWN JUSTIFY 
AWARD OF THE MEDAL
C. THERE SHALL BE NO AUTOMATIC AWARDING ON THE BASIS OF SET CRITERIA 
SUCH AS A RECENT PROMOTION, FIRST PLACE ON A MERIT LIST, RECENT 
AWARDING OF ANOTHER HONOUR OR AWARD, LENGTH OF SERVICE, ETC
D. THERE SHALL BE NO DRAW, VOTE, PEER SELECTION BY ACCLAMATION OR 
ANY OTHER SIMILAR PROCESS TO DETERMINE MEDAL CANDIDATES. EACH UNIT 
OR FORMATION SHALL ESTABLISH AN APPROPRIATE SELECTION COMMITTEE SO 
AS TO FORWARD MERIT-BASED NOMINATIONS TO HIGHER HQ IAW DIRECTION 
PROVIDED BY THE NOMINATING COMMANDS
E. NO PERSON SHALL NOMINATE HIMSELF OR HERSELF. CO S AND COMMANDERS 
SHALL BE NOMINATED BY THEIR SUPERIOR HQ IF THEY ARE DEEMED DESERVING
F. THE AWARD OF ANY OTHER COMMEMORATIVE MEDAL HAS NO BEARING ON 
ELIGIBILITY FOR THIS MEDAL
G. CANDIDATES DESERVING OF THIS MEDAL SHALL IN EVERY WAY BE AN 
EXAMPLE FOR THEIR PEERS AND A PRIDE FOR THEIR UNIT
H. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE PERSONS WHO HAVE 
DEMONSTRATED ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ACHIEVEMENTS:
(1) A PERFORMANCE THAT FAR EXCEEDS WHAT IS EXPECTED OF A MEMBER OF 
THEIR RANK, TRADE OR EXPERIENCE
(2) ACTIONS ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE THAT HAVE REFLECTED WELL ON 
THE CF AND CANADA
(3) A DEEP COMMITMENT TO THEIR COMMUNITY THROUGH THEIR INVOLVEMENT 
AND VOLUNTEER WORK
(4) INNOVATIONS THAT CHANGE THE WAY THE CF OPERATES
(5) HAVING INFLUENCED THE WAY THE CANADIAN PUBLIC PERCEIVES THE CF
(6) A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO THE PRESERVATION, PERPETUATION AND 
COMMUNICATION OF OUR MILITARY CULTURE AND HERITAGE
(7) ACTIONS AND EXPERTISE THAT HAVE MADE OF THEM NATIONAL AND 
INTERNATIONAL AUTHORITIES IN THEIR FIELD
I. CAREFUL CONSIDERATION MUST BE GIVEN IN EACH COMMAND TO ENSURING A 
GOOD REPRESENTATION OF CF DEMOGRAPHICS, WHICH INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING 
FACTORS:
(1) RANK. ALLOCATIONS WILL BE FIXED BY RANK GROUP ON THE BASIS OF 
CURRENT CF DEMOGRAPHY (OS/PTE TO PO2/SGT, PO1/WO TO CPO1/CWO, OCDT 
TO LT(N)/CAPT, LCDR/MAJ TO CAPT(N)/COL AND GOFOS), BUT COMMANDS MUST 
ALSO ENSURE EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION WITHIN EACH RANK
(2) GENDER. WOMEN SHALL REPRESENT NO LESS THAN 15 PER CENT OF THE 
CANDIDATES
(3) FIRST OFFICIAL LANGUAGE
(4) OCCUPATIONS
(5) COMPONENTS. MEMBERS OF THE PRIMARY RESERVE SHALL MAKE UP 20 PER 
CENT OF THE CANDIDATES. AS WITH THE ORMM, A SPECIAL ALLOCATION FOR 
THE MEMBERS OF COATS AND THE RANGERS WILL BE ASSIGNED TO VCDS AND 
CLS RESPECTIVELY. THE RELEVANT COMMAND MUST CONSIDER HOLDERS OF 
HONORARY APPOINTMENTS AS PART OF THEIR ALLOCATION IN THE LCDR/MAJ TO 
CAPT(N)/COL RANK GROUP (EXCEPT IN THE CASE OF THOSE WHO ARE NOT 
CANADIAN CITIZENS)
(6) UNIT AND REGIONAL DISTRIBUTION
(7) EMPLOYMENT EQUITY GROUPS
7. THE NOMINATING COMMANDS WILL PROMULGATE THEIR INTERNAL CALL FOR 
NOMINATIONS IN THE NEAR FUTURE AND THEY WILL INITIATE THEIR 
SELECTION PROCESS. THE COMMANDS SHALL SUBMIT THEIR FINAL LIST OF 
CANDIDATES TO DH R ON OR AFTER 06 FEB 12, BUT NLT 01 JUL 12. IF THE 
STATUS OF A CANDIDATE CHANGES (AS A RESULT OF DEATH, RELEASE, THE 
LAYING OF A CHARGE, A POSTING, ETC) BETWEEN THE MOMENT OF NOMINATION 
AND THAT OF PRESENTATION OF THE MEDAL, THE COMMANDS SHALL NOTIFY DH 
R. AS SELECTION MAY BE INITIATED AHEAD OF THE ELIGIBILITY DATE OF 06 
FEB 12 IT IS POSSIBLE THAT A SUBSEQUENT CHANGE IN STATUS MAY AFFECT 
A CANDIDATE S ELIGIBILITY FOR THE MEDAL. SINCE A NOMINATION DOES NOT 
GUARANTEE AN AWARD, IT IS MOST IMPORTANT THAT THE CANDIDATE NOT BE 
INFORMED THAT THEY ARE BEING CONSIDERED FOR THE MEDAL SO AS TO AVOID 
ANY DISAPPOINTMENT
8. MEDALS WILL BE DISPATCHED BY DH R TO THE RECIPIENT S URS AFTER 06 
FEB 12, FOR PRESENTATION THROUGHOUT THE JUBILEE YEAR. UNITS MUST 
TAKE CARE TO RECORD THE AWARD OF THE MEDAL IN EACH MEMBER S PERS 
FILE AND MPRR. IF A MEDAL IS RECEIVED FOR A MEMBER WHO IS NO LONGER 
PART OF A UNIT, THE PACKAGE IS TO BE RETURNED UNDER DND 728 TO DH R, 
WITH AN EXPLANATORY NOTE
9. FOR MORE INFORMATION OR A PHOTO OF THE MEDAL DESIGN, GO TO HTTP 
CMP-CPM.FORCES.MIL.CA DHR-DDHR
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN
10. SIGNED BY GEN NATYNCZYK WJ, CDS
END OF ENGLISH TEXT / LE TEXTE FRANCAIS SUIT


----------



## Tow Tripod

4. THE CF HAVE BEEN ALLOCATED 11 000 MEDALS, WHICH MEANS THAT 
APPROXIMATELY 10 PER CENT OF CF MEMBERS WILL BE RECOGNIZED ON THIS 
OCCASION. THE SELECTION WILL BE MADE ON THE BASIS OF MERIT USING A 
PROCESS SIMILAR TO THAT OF THE ORDER OF MILITARY MERIT (ORMM). THE 
FIVE ORMM NOMINATING COMMANDS, NAMELY VCDS, RCN, CA, RCAF AND CMP, 
WILL BE GIVEN AN ALLOCATION CORRESPONDING TO THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC 
WEIGHT, ALONG WITH DIRECTION TO ENSURE THAT THE SELECTION IS 
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CF POPULATION. THE AFOREMENTIONED COMMANDS 
WILL SOLICIT NOMINATIONS FROM THEIR UNITS AND FORMATIONS AND MAKE A 
SELECTION THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS BELOW. THE NOMINATIONS WILL BE 
CONSOLIDATED BY DH R AND SUBMITTED TO GOVERNMENT HOUSE FOR APPROVAL
5. THE CF HAVE CRITERIA THAT ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE NATIONAL 
CRITERIA FOR THE MEDAL. TO BE ELIGIBLE A CF MEMBER SHALL:

I see this going well!! People freaking out 5 years from now because they didn't get nominated.Wait it has already started!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Tow Tripod said:
			
		

> I see this going well!! People freaking out 5 years from now because they didn't get nominated.Wait it has already started!



Those are usually the ones who DON'T deserve it.  

Maybe part of the selection criteria should be "question nominated pers' CofC, peers and 2 of their subordinates.  If any of them confirm mbr has been bitching he/she should get one because he/she is so freakin' awesome, UNSAT, award denied, mbr posted to "insert crappiest posting in the CF here"


----------



## CountDC

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> 2 different countries.....issuing 2 different medals.....part of 2 separate honours & awards systems........



cough cough cheaper government cough cough.


----------



## PuckChaser

CountDC said:
			
		

> cough cough cheaper government cough cough.



We have a winner....


----------



## Swingline1984

: Sooooo....they've turned an anniversary medal into a decoration for merit.  I think I'd much rather get the MMM if so deserving.


----------



## quadrapiper

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> : Sooooo....they've turned an anniversary medal into a decoration for merit.


Providing 15% of those nominated are women, and consideration is given to nominees' first official language. 

Is there a similar requirement in the CF nomination or screening process for any other award?


----------



## Swingline1984

quadrapiper said:
			
		

> Providing 15% of those nominated are women, and consideration is given to nominees' first official language.
> 
> Is there a similar requirement in the CF nomination or screening process for any other award?



At this rate I'm surprised that being able to pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time as balancing your cheque book isn't a criteria.  If I ever actually see someone wearing it I'll have to shake his/her hand for being the poster child for political correctness that they are.


----------



## dapaterson

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> At this rate I'm surprised that being able to pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time as balancing your cheque book isn't a criteria.  If I ever actually see someone wearing it I'll have to shake his/her hand for being the poster child for political correctness that they are.



I'll try to ensure you get one...


----------



## Swingline1984

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I'll try to ensure you get one...



As perfect as I am; I'm not THAT perfect  ;D


----------



## OldSolduer

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> : Sooooo....they've turned an anniversary medal into a decoration for merit.  I think I'd much rather get the MMM if so deserving.



How about being nominated for both? Just a thought............


----------



## dapaterson

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> As perfect as I am; I'm not THAT perfect  ;D



You just need to be in the top 10%...


----------



## Loachman

Can those of us who don't get one refer to ourselves as the 90% and occupy something?


----------



## Swingline1984

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> How about being nominated for both? Just a thought............



The only issue I have with this particular medal is that I'm in the all or none camp for the distribution of an anniversary medal seeing as we already have awards for merit, however, I understand that with it's hands tied with an allocation of only 11000 that the CF is doing it's best to be fair.  My comments were made with tongue firmly planted in cheek (or foot in mouth; whichever you prefer) and I'm sure whomever receives this medal will be nothing but deserving.


----------



## dapaterson

Loachman said:
			
		

> Can those of us who don't get one refer to ourselves as the 90% and occupy something?




We'll occupy the bottom 90% of the merit list.


----------



## aesop081

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> the CF is doing it's best to be fair.



The CF is doing no such thing. If it it had been merit-based only, it may have seemed fair. Then they mandated that 15% of nominees would be women and that consideration will be given to FOL, employment equity groups, etc......

It instantly became an unfair system, on purpose.

I don't give a rats ass about the medal but what the CF came up with is not a fair system and doesn't even pretend to be.


----------



## NavalMoose

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CF is doing no such thing. If it it had been merit-based only, it may have seemed fair. Then they mandated that 15% of nominees would be women and that consideration will be given to FOL, employment equity groups, etc......

It instantly became an unfair system, on purpose.

I don't give a rats *** about the medal but what the CF came up with is not a fair system and doesn't even pretend to be.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree with above statement. Since when does a commemorative medal have anything to do with merit, gender, language etc? I'll tell you when....since the Government is too cheap to make enough for all people in uniform and not just CF uniforms. Take the example of the UK which is in dire economic trouble but still will give out this gong for all personnel with 5 years in and not just the MOD. Their Military not to mention all the other services must be at least twice Canada's yet we nickel and dime our people.....for shame.


----------



## vonGarvin

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The CF is doing no such thing. If it it had been merit-based only, it may have seemed fair. Then they mandated that 15% of nominees would be women and that consideration will be given to FOL, employment equity groups, etc......
> 
> It instantly became an unfair system, on purpose.


Exactly.  But it _is_ merit based only.  They even said so.   :


> "And if all others accepted the lie with the Party imposed - if all records told the same tale - then the lie passed into history and became truth.  "Who controls the past," ran the Party slogan, "controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."  And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered.  Whatever was true now w2as true from everlasting to everlasting.  It was quite simple.  All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your own memory.  "Reality control," they called it:  in Newspeak, "doublethink."


----------



## jollyjacktar

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The CF is doing no such thing. If it it had been merit-based only, it may have seemed fair. Then they mandated that 15% of nominees would be women and that consideration will be given to FOL, employment equity groups, etc......
> 
> It instantly became an unfair system, on purpose.
> 
> I don't give a rats *** about the medal but what the CF came up with is not a fair system and doesn't even pretend to be.



And I'll view this medal with the same regard I give the 125, QGJM.  Little or none at all.  The 125 was such a balls up fiasco in 1 CMBG it made one sick.


----------



## Swingline1984

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The CF is doing no such thing.



The CF isn't the president of the political correctness club, it is only a member.  The idea of what is "fair" is subjective.  If in the end women were under represented, then that too would be seen as unfair by certain parties.  I don't have all the answers, but I think in all 'fairness' (due to the constraints placed upon it by the system) the criteria, and by virtue of that, the CF is being 'fair'.  However, you can see why I (as I can assume most of you are, and as I stated previously) am in the all-or-none camp.


----------



## aesop081

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> the CF is being 'fair'.



No.

They were being fair when they said that the sole criteria was merit. If they had left it at that, it would have been fair alright.

It is further down the message that "fair" stopped.

I am in the "none at all" camp. It is a BS medal for commemorative purposes. It does not belong on the uniform of soldiers. That the CF is double-speaking on its criteria and playing the PC game makes worth even less.


----------



## Swingline1984

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I am in the "none at all" camp. It is a BS medal for commemorative purposes. It does not belong on the uniform of soldiers. That the CF is double-speaking on its criteria and playing the PC game makes worth even less.



Fair enough.


----------



## Sub_Guy

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I am in the "none at all" camp. It is a BS medal for commemorative purposes. It does not belong on the uniform of soldiers. That the CF is double-speaking on its criteria and playing the PC game makes worth even less.



I look forward to seeing a picture of your smiling mug when you get presented this medal!   >


----------



## aesop081

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> I look forward to seeing a picture of your smiling mug when you get presented this medal!   >



Thankfully, i am not eligible as i have been fined $550 at one point in time and no one fined over $500 can get it.

You will have to get your kicks out of someone else. I know someone in your line of work that will probably get it though.......you know who i am thinking of.


----------



## Journeyman

For cryin' out loud; give it to the Cadets, Rangers, and anyone who's never deployed. 

For the rest of us, it just causes the butt-pain of having to get the medals remounted.....again.   :


----------



## aesop081

The staff effort could have been better used........like getting real medals to soldiers who have already earned them.

My Libya medal and OSM(exp) would have been a good start  ;D


----------



## Hurricane

Journeyman said:
			
		

> For cryin' out loud; give it to the Cadets, Rangers, and anyone who's never deployed.
> 
> For the rest of us, it just causes the butt-pain of having to get the medals remounted.....again.   :



Cadets could always use another "gimmie" medal. On another note, pertaining to the rangers. I know they live up there in the cold most of the time, but is there an Arctic Operational Service Medal or has there ever been talk of one? I know they are just doing their day to day job, but its friggin cold up there!


----------



## PuckChaser

Hurricane said:
			
		

> Cadets could always use another "gimmie" medal. On another note, pertaining to the rangers. I know they live up there in the cold most of the time, but is there an Arctic Operational Service Medal or has there ever been talk of one? I know they are just doing their day to day job, but its friggin cold up there!



They're used to the cold though, its not as bad as it is for us travelling up there. I think they are entitled to the CD though, giving them a medal for being in the Arctic would be like wanting to give people a Gagetown Service Medal....  >


----------



## Blackadder1916

Hurricane said:
			
		

> . . . . .  On another note, pertaining to the rangers. I know they live up there in the cold most of the time, but is there an Arctic Operational Service Medal or has there ever been talk of one? I know they are just doing their day to day job, but its friggin cold up there!



Not an OSM but the SSM.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=SSM


> The Special Service Medal (SSM) was created to recognize members of the Canadian Forces who are taking part in activities and operations under exceptional circumstances.
> 
> ELIGIBILITY & CRITERIA
> 
> The Special Service Medal (SSM) recognizes members of the Canadian Forces (CF) who have performed a service determined to be under exceptional circumstances, in a clearly defined locality for a specified duration. The SSM recognizes approved activities underway on 11 June 1984 or subsequently established. This medals is *always issued with a bar that specifies the special service being recognized, each bar having its own criteria*.
> 
> . . . . . .
> 
> RANGER
> 
> (Authorized by PC 1999-1742).
> An aggregate of four years of honourable service as a Canadian Ranger, performing the duties of providing a military presence in support of Canadian sovereignty including reporting unusual activities, collecting local data of significance to support military operations, providing local expertise, assistance and advice, as guide and advisor, in search and rescue activities, and completion of a minimum of three Ranger Patrol Exercises, within Canada or its territorial and contiguous waters since 1947.


----------



## armyvern

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Not an OSM but the SSM.
> 
> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=SSM



Their bar reads Ranger.

Pers who serve 6 months at CFS Alert receive the "Alert" bar.


----------



## PMedMoe

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Their bar reads Ranger.
> 
> Pers who serve 6 months at CFS Alert receive the "Alert" bar.



_Psst_.  Scroll down to para 6 under "Bars".


----------



## aesop081

I know there's someone out there in CFland that has the 125, QGJM and CD that is just frothing at the mouth to get the QDJM.

There has to be one.......somewhere.............


----------



## armyvern

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> _Psst_.  Scroll down to para 6 under "Bars".



Isn't that what I just said??


----------



## PViddy

> Cadets could always use another "gimmie" medal.



If by Cadets, do you mean COATS pers?  As we're the members of the CF, not the Cadets.  We only usually receive one other medal and thats the CD which, i don't personally classify as a gimme medal, maybe you do.

Cadets are not authorized to wear CF medals, nor the QDJM.

Cheers,

PV

slight grammar mod


----------



## aesop081

PViddy said:
			
		

> If by Cadets, you mean COATS pers, as we're the members of the CF, not the Cadets then we only usually receive one other medal.  Thats the CD which, i don't personally classify as a gimme medal, maybe you do.
> 
> Cadets are not authorized to wear CF medals, nor the QDJM.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> PV



I'm pretty sure he meant it as in "anybody but us" ...........relax.


----------



## PViddy

> I'm pretty sure he meant it as in "anybody but us" ...........relax.



I'm quite relaxed, just looking for clarrification.


cheers

PV


----------



## bLUE fOX

Regarding cadets, this was taken from a notice issued last january from DCdts regarding the moving of "unofficial cadet medals" from the left breast to the right:

"Q7.	In the exceptional case where a cadet is awarded an official medal (in ref to the Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive of 1998), where will this official medal and ribbon be worn on the cadet uniform?
A7.	An official medal shall be suspended above the left breast pocket of the jacket of the cadet uniform, immediately above and centred. If two or more official medals are awarded, they shall be worn in order of precedence, without interval, with the highest priority medal closest to the centre of the chest. Ribbons of official medals shall be positioned in rows, centred immediately above the left breast pocket of the jacket or shirt of the cadet uniform, without interval between the ribbons and rows."

The statement that "Cadets are not authorized to wear CF medals, nor the QDJM" is almost like saying that CIC officers (or the CF in general) shouldn't be allowed to wear their police/fire/ambulance/coast guard long service medals with their uniform because even though they're national honours, they're not "CF" medals. I had a similar talk about the GSM when I was in Kandahar, and a number of people there said that I shouldn't be allowed to wear it on my uniform, never mind receive it.


----------



## Swingline1984

Journeyman said:
			
		

> For cryin' out loud; give it to the Cadets, Rangers, and anyone who's never deployed.
> 
> For the rest of us, it just causes the butt-pain of having to get the medals remounted.....again.   :



Well there goes my dream of looking like this guy...


----------



## dogger1936

PViddy said:
			
		

> If by Cadets, do you mean COATS pers?  As we're the members of the CF, not the Cadets.  We only usually receive one other medal and thats the CD which, i don't personally classify as a gimme medal, maybe you do.
> 
> Cadets are not authorized to wear CF medals, nor the QDJM.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> PV
> 
> slight grammar mod



I'm sure by Cadets he means COATS, CIC or whatever. Not many people know or care what the youth organisation calls it's leadership component.


----------



## PViddy

> "Q7.   In the exceptional case where a cadet is awarded an official medal (in ref to the Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive of 1998), where will this official medal and ribbon be worn on the cadet uniform?
> A7.   An official medal shall be suspended above the left breast pocket of the jacket of the cadet uniform, immediately above and centred. If two or more official medals are awarded, they shall be worn in order of precedence, without interval, with the highest priority medal closest to the centre of the chest. Ribbons of official medals shall be positioned in rows, centred immediately above the left breast pocket of the jacket or shirt of the cadet uniform, without interval between the ribbons and rows."



yes, i have also read that but didn't recall at the time of post.  Good catch. 


Cheers,

PV


----------



## PMedMoe

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Isn't that what I just said??



Sure is.  I'm just not sure why you brought the Alert bar into it.    :dunno:



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> 2 women arguing over what the other said...........that always goes well.......



Nah, we're okay.


----------



## PViddy

> I'm sure by Cadets he means COATS, CIC or whatever. Not many people know or care what the youth organisation calls it's leadership component.



I do, it's my unit.


However, since then i have been corrected with some helpful information.  Thanks Ladies + Gents!


cheers

PV


----------



## mariomike

NavalMoose said:
			
		

> Since when does a commemorative medal have anything to do with merit, gender, language etc? I'll tell you when....since the Government is too cheap to make enough for all people in uniform and not just CF uniforms. Take the example of the UK which is in dire economic trouble but still will give out this gong for all personnel with 5 years in and not just the MOD. Their Military not to mention all the other services must be at least twice Canada's yet we nickel and dime our people.....for shame.



Can't please all the people all the time over there either:
"A Cardiff veteran has launched a nationwide battle to ensure all past servicemen are given the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal":
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-news/2012/01/05/veterans-in-battle-for-queen-s-diamond-jubilee-medal-91466-30061972/

Edit to add smiley:


----------



## NavalMoose

Well if he wins his case maybe I will get one of those ones...lol


----------



## Pusser

PViddy said:
			
		

> Cadets are not authorized to wear CF medals, nor the QDJM.



There is no such thing as a "CF" medal.  All Orders, Decorations and Medals in the Canadian Honours System emanate or are approved by the Crown.  Although there are a number of them that can only be earned by military personnel (note I said "military," not necessarily CF), the system as whole applies to all Canadians.  Those honours that can only be earned by military personnel (e.g. Military Valour Decorations, GCS, CD, etc) cannot be worn by a cadet, only because a cadet cannot earn them.  However, there are no restrictions on the others, including the Diamond Jubilee Medal.  If a cadet is awarded it (and yes, it is possible), he/she can wear it - on the left side of his/her uniform.

At a recent ceremony at Rideau Hall, a 14 year old girl was awarded the Medal of Bravery (which a number of CF personnel have also earned).  If she were a cadet, she could wear it on her uniform.


----------



## brihard

Curiosity's sake- there must at some point have been a cadet or three who've been decorated with MB's for something or other?


----------



## Hurricane

Also curious to know what the age requirements are to work at Tim Hortons in KAF (I know its gone now). Could a 16/17 year old not go to work in KAF at Timmies and come back to his Cadet Corps with a GCS?


----------



## PuckChaser

Hurricane said:
			
		

> Also curious to know what the age requirements are to work at Tim Hortons in KAF (I know its gone now). Could a 16/17 year old not go to work in KAF at Timmies and come back to his Cadet Corps with a GCS?



I don't think they sent anyone under 18 to Afghanistan.


----------



## mariomike

Pusser said:
			
		

> At a recent ceremony at Rideau Hall, a 14 year old girl was awarded the Medal of Bravery (which a number of CF personnel have also earned).



"Julius Richard Rosenberg was only five years old when he rescued his sister from a black bear attack on September 20, 1992, at West Hawk Lake, Manitoba. He was awarded a Medal of Bravery.":
http://archive.gg.ca/honours/decorations/bra/bd-info_e.asp


----------



## catalyst

Hurricane said:
			
		

> Also curious to know what the age requirements are to work at Tim Hortons in KAF (I know its gone now). Could a 16/17 year old not go to work in KAF at Timmies and come back to his Cadet Corps with a GCS?



We didn't get the GCS.

You had to be over 18, but having gone through the selection process, most of the people chosen were over 21-ish (I was.....23? I think?). Say what you will about being a timmies worker (btw, we worked other places too!) but a lot of people applied for those jobs. This was not your run of the mil timmies where anyone could get hired. That being said, they did hire me so..........................

Oddly enough - it is the CIC folks that have an issue with me wearing my GSM. I usually get inquisitive questions and we share stories. 

Anways, random interjection  

There have been Cadets given the QGJM, and a few have gotten MB's and a SC, but it hasn't been for a few years that this has occured (in 10?) at least in my memory. The Cadet program has its own 'MB' - I don't really know why we don't staff up recommendations for the 'real' medal of bravery as well, some of the commendations for the Cadet medals have been quite impressive......


----------



## Pusser

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> Oddly enough - it is the CIC folks that have an issue with me wearing my GSM. I usually get inquisitive questions and we share stories.
> 
> Anways, random interjection
> 
> There have been Cadets given the QGJM, and a few have gotten MB's and a SC, but it hasn't been for a few years that this has occured (in 10?) at least in my memory. The Cadet program has its own 'MB' - I don't really know why we don't staff up recommendations for the 'real' medal of bravery as well, some of the commendations for the Cadet medals have been quite impressive......



If you earned it, you can wear it on your uniform and it doesn't matter how you earned it.  Again, it's the Canadian Honours System, not the CF honours system.  A CF member (e.g. an RMS Clerk) who also happens to be a volunteer firefighter can wear a Fire Services Exemplary Service Medal on his CF uniform, if he/she has earned it, even though that medal has nothing to do with his/her CF service.  Someone who's served 20 years with Corrections, who then retires and joins the CF can wear their Corrections ESM on their uniform at BMQ.

I would argue that there are two reasons cadets are nominated for cadet bravery medals vice the national one:

1)  the process for the cadet medal is faster, easier and the requirements are less stringent (perhaps if an adult did the same thing, it would not be considered award-worthy); and/or

2)  the folks involved are unaware that children can be awarded national honours (they can) or are simply unaware of the process.

ANYONE can nominate ANYONE for a national honour.  If you go on the GG's website (www.gg.ca), and navigate through it, you can find out how.  There are a few things to point out:

1)  CIC officers are members of the CF; therefore, regardless of whether the deed for which they are being nominated is related to their military service, the nomination should go through the chain of command to the Directorate of Honours and Recognition.  An exception to this would Exemplary Service Medals.  The employing organization it this case would take care of that nomination.  I'm speaking mostly to the Meritorious Service and Bravery Decorations (and obviously the uniquely military decorations)

2)  Cadets are not CF members; therefore, a nomination for them should go directly to the Chancellery (see the website for details).

If perhance a nomination goes the wrong route, the Chancellery or DH&R will forward the file to the other as appropriate.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

OK,...back on topic folks.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

I remember the process used to distribute the silver jubilee one. Same thing.

We use to joke that the recipients, when asked what the medal was for should answer "It's because my CO likes me but couldn't get me promoted".

All joking aside, I personally think that a "pin" or "patch" that everyone wears on the uniform during the celebratory year and gets to keep after are more suited to these these types of anniversary celebrations. For the cost of these medals for "10%" of the serving members, 100% of them could have received a nice looking pin or patch that they would have cherished as a keepsake.


----------



## The Bread Guy

And to those moaning about not getting it, how about a postcard....





.... with the Diamond Jubilee Commemorative Stamps?


----------



## dapaterson

First Ontario recipients announced, including Llyod Robertson, Peter Mansbridge... and David Cronenberg.






  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1126234--jubilee-medal-honours-star-columnist?bn=1


----------



## OldSolduer

While we're aT let's nominate Staples and Ram.  :facepalm:


----------



## medicineman

I'm pretty sure they've already nominated themselves...

MM


----------



## old medic

Canada plans big party for Queen Elizabeth's jubilee
CTVNews.ca Staff
05 Feb 2012
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120205/queen-elizabeth-jubilee-20120205/



> Queen Elizabeth II ventured out in the cold to attend church Sunday on the eve of her Diamond Jubilee, just as Canada gears up for a major week-long celebration marking her 60 years on the throne.
> 
> After all, it was Canada that was first in the world to recognize her as monarch following the death of her father, King George VI, on Feb. 6, 1952.
> 
> The celebrations kicks off Monday, when Parliament hoists the Queen's official Diamond Jubilee flag featuring a crescent of maple leaves enveloping a diamond and topped by a crown.
> 
> Other festivities include an ice-carving of the jubilee emblem at Ottawa's Winterlude, the release of a commemorative Canada Post stamp and a ceremony dedicating new stained-glass at the Parliament buildings.
> 
> Also on Monday, the governor general will launch the Jubilee Medals in a ceremony at Rideau Hall. The first batch will be given to 60 "outstanding citizens" -- one medal for each year of the Queen's reign.
> 
> Gov. Gen. David Johnston said he plans to award more to Canadians from every province and territory throughout the year.
> 
> "The Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal is a tangible way for Canada to honour Her Majesty for her service to this country," states the Governor General's website. "At the same time, it serves to honour significant contributions and achievements by Canadians."
> 
> There's a renewed interest in the monarchy in Canada, especially in the afterglow of the visit of newlyweds the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge last summer.
> 
> Worldwide celebrations of the jubilee will last about four months, culminating in a lavish ceremony in London on the anniversary of her coronation on June 2, 1953.
> 
> Members of the royal family, with the exception of the Queen, will travel throughout the Commonwealth in celebration of the jubilee. Canadians will have their chance to give the royals their due when Prince Charles and his wife Camilla visit Canada in May.
> 
> Their trip is expected to be a low-key affair, rather than the whirlwind tour of Prince William and Kate that drew thousands of well-wishers to their events.
> 
> Ottawa has pledged $7.5 million to help fund four months worth of commemorative activities, including the total of 60,000 jubilee medals that will ultimately be given to Canadians for outstanding community service.
> 
> In a statement posted on the government's dedicated Jubilee website, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said the occasion gives Canadians "good reason for celebration," reiterating some of the monarch's past statements on her affection for Canada.
> 
> "For only the second time in our history, we will honour the 60-year reign of a Sovereign," he said. "The Queen has dedicated her entire life to the service of others and has always held this country and all Canadians in the deepest of pride and affection."
> 
> The Queen, who is 85, is the symbolic head of Britain, Canada and other Commonwealth countries. She is the longest-serving monarch after Queen Victoria.
> 
> Grandiose ceremonies planned for the Queen's home country aren't taking place until later this year.
> 
> From June 2-5, London will host a carriage parade, a boat pageant and a Jubilee concert at Buckingham Palace featuring musicians from across the Commonwealth. A lottery will be held to hand out tickets to lucky United Kingdom citizens.





Church bells to ring for Queen’s Diamond Jubilee
Winnipeg Sun
02 Feb 2012
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/02/02/church-bells-to-ring-for-queens-diamond-jubilee



> Church bells will be rung throughout the province on Monday to mark the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth’s ascension to the throne.
> 
> Premier Greg Selinger announced the province has asked churches throughout Manitoba to ring their bells for two minutes at 6 p.m. to mark the anniversary of Elizabeth taking the throne. An ice sculpture made of the Queen’s diamond jubilee will be also unveiled in front of the legislature, a special architectural lighting display of the building will be turned on that night, and the Queen’s Canadian flag will fly at it all day.
> 
> A commemorative book of celebration will also be available starting Monday for the public to sign to congratulate the Queen on the milestone. It will remain available to sign for three months, the province said. An online book will also be available on the government website starting Monday, and a special commemorative book will travel to several communities throughout the province later in the year.
> 
> Other events are also expected to be announced throughout the year.


----------



## The Bread Guy

The first 60 for the Queen's 60th being presented today - from the GG's Info-machine....


> .... RECIPIENTS’ CITATIONS
> 
> Tomas Avendano
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> For his commitment to helping new immigrants on Canada’s West Coast to integrate into Canadian society.
> 
> Michael Ball
> Montréal, Quebec
> For his leadership within the Canadian Hero Fund, which helps the children of fallen soldiers pursue post-secondary education.
> 
> Maureen Basnicki
> Thornbury, Ontario
> For advocating on behalf of victims of terror, and for her enduring dialogue on terrorism.
> 
> Wanda Bedard
> Montréal, Quebec
> For her dedicated support for girls’ education around the world, through the 60 million girls foundation.
> 
> Teresa Berezowski
> Toronto, Ontario
> For her dedication to Canada’s Polish community, and to its rich history and culture.
> 
> Michel G. Bergeron, C.M., O.Q.
> Québec, Quebec
> For his important contributions to medical research and for sharing his passion with a new generation of researchers.
> 
> Alexandre Bilodeau
> Montréal, Quebec
> For his contributions to sports and for inspiring others to follow their golden dreams.
> 
> Lieutenant-Colonel John R. Bishop, C.D. (Ret’d)
> Cobble Hill, British Columbia
> For his dedicated support for Korean War veterans and their family members.
> 
> Pierre Boileau
> Montréal, Quebec
> For his contributions to the arts and for promoting our rich cultural heritage.
> 
> Major-General Lionel Bourgeois, C.M.M., C.D. (Ret’d)
> Trenton, Ontario
> For his contributions to the Royal Canadian Humane Association, which recognizes Canadians for their heroic actions.
> 
> Melvin James Boutilier, C.M., O.N.S.
> Halifax, Nova Scotia
> For his leadership at the helm of the Halifax Community Care Network Society, and for providing resources and support to those in need.
> 
> David A. Chalack
> Balzac, Alberta
> For his contributions to the field of animal care and to the success of the Calgary Stampede.
> 
> Clément Chartier
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For his leadership as president of the Métis National Council, and for advocating for Métis and Indigenous rights.
> 
> Joël Chéruet
> Gatineau, Quebec
> For his contributions to policing in Canada, and for his 25 years of volunteer work to see meritorious police officers honoured.
> 
> Lieutenant(N) James W. Clute, C.D.
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For his contributions to youth development programs, particularly for navy cadets, as a member of the Canadian Forces Cadet Instructors Cadre.
> 
> Gail Cyr
> Yellowknife, Northwest Territories
> For her innovative contributions towards establishing an Advanced Medical First Responder program in isolated Northwest Territories communities.
> 
> Priscilla de Villiers, M.S.M.
> Burlington, Ontario
> For her ongoing perseverance and leadership in helping victims of crime, and for her research on restorative justice in Ontario.
> 
> Corporal Ryan Doherty
> Denwood, Alberta
> For his continued leadership within and dedication to the Canadian Forces, and for his outstanding technical knowledge.
> 
> Budhendranauth Doobay, O. Ont.
> Toronto, Ontario
> For his leadership as a founding member of the Voice of Vedas Cultural Sabha, and for his active involvement with various international aid organizations.
> 
> Barney Ellis-Perry
> North Vancouver, British Columbia
> For his social engagement and community service, notably with Volunteer Canada.
> 
> Alex Forrest
> Winnipeg, Manitoba
> For his contributions to firefighting, notably to have certain cancers identified as occupational hazards.
> 
> Darrell Fox
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> For his dedication to finding a cure for cancer and for raising the public’s awareness of Terry Fox’s legacy.
> 
> Bruce Gitelman
> Toronto, Ontario
> For his dedicated efforts towards improving and expanding the public’s understanding of science.
> 
> Bryden Hutt
> Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
> For his dedication to and efforts in support of the Children’s Wish Foundation.
> 
> Master Corporal Keven Thomas Iles
> The Pas, Manitoba
> For providing significant support for his local emergency medical services and fire department.
> 
> Johnny Issaluk
> Iqaluit, Nunavut
> For his contributions towards improving the health and community well-being among Nunavutmiut.
> 
> Roberta L. Jamieson, C.M.
> Ohsweken, Ontario
> For her leadership as president of the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation, and for her expertise in non-adversarial methods of conflict resolution.
> 
> Major Gordon Jenkins, C.D. (Ret’d)
> Stittsville, Ontario
> For his military service and for his support of NATO veterans across the country.
> 
> William Matthew Raistlen Jones
> Whitehorse, Yukon
> For his leadership as an Aboriginal role model and for his dedication to the arts.
> 
> Melpa Kamateros
> Mount Royal, Quebec
> For her ongoing support for victims of family violence, and for leading community outreach initiatives.
> 
> Chil-Yong Kang
> London, Ontario
> For advancing scientific research, and for his dedication to finding a preventative vaccine for HIV.
> 
> Captain Ray Kokkonen, C.D. (Ret’d)
> Trout Brook, New Brunswick
> For his contributions to the Canadian Forces and to the Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association.
> 
> Veronica (Vonnie) Lavers
> Kelowna, British Columbia
> For her commitment to providing healthy food to families in need.
> 
> Huguette Lépine
> Québec, Quebec
> For her dedication to helping young people cope with life’s challenges, and for providing them with the support they need.
> 
> Captain Simon J. Mailloux
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For his leadership within the Canadian Forces and for his efforts to help soldiers injured during the war in Afghanistan.
> 
> Shawnee Main
> Fredericton, New Brunswick
> For her social engagement, notably with the Atlantic Burn Camp and Muscular Dystrophy Canada.
> 
> Captain E. Maria Mangnall-Schonert, C.D.
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For promoting and delivering the Canadian Cadet Program to young people in her community.
> 
> Patricia McDermott
> Halifax, Nova Scotia
> For her dedication to engaging individuals and mobilizing collective action to help communities, notably through United Way Canada.
> 
> Peter P. M. Meincke
> Manotick, Ontario
> For his commitment and expertise in promoting the technological innovations necessary for sustainable development worldwide.
> 
> Bryna Monson
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For her ongoing work with Languages of Life, and for providing Canadians with the means to communicate with each other in different languages.
> 
> Leslie Natynczyk
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For her dedication to and support of military families, and for her innovative Segways for Wounded Warriors initiative.
> 
> Paul Nguyen
> Toronto, Ontario
> For fighting stereotypes and acting as a role model and mentor for at-risk youth in his community.
> 
> Constable Anne O’Shaughnessy
> Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island
> For her dedication to the health, safety and physical well-being of the Aboriginal youth of Prince Edward Island.
> 
> Master Warrant Officer Jean-Claude Parent, C.D.
> Ottawa, Ontario
> For his contributions to the Canadian Red Cross and the Military Family Resource Centre of his community.
> 
> Linda Patterson
> Oromocto, New Brunswick
> For her involvement in creating safe neighbourhoods for children and seniors across the country, notably through the Block Parent Program.
> 
> Tom Quinn
> Beaconsfield, Quebec
> For his dedication to sports, notably as an accomplished athlete and as chair of the Canada Games Council.
> 
> Brigadier-General Bob Robert, C.D. (Ret’d)
> Brooklin, Ontario
> For his distinguished military career, and for his leadership within the Air Cadet League of Canada.
> 
> Ronald Schlegel
> Kitchener, Ontario
> For pursuing better living standards for all through his leadership within the business community.
> 
> Rachel Scott-Mignon
> Gatineau, Quebec
> For raising awareness of mental health issues, particularly bipolar disorder.
> 
> Maureen Shaw
> Victoria, British Columbia
> For her leadership in occupational health and safety, corporate social responsibility and education for manufacturing workers.
> 
> Master Seaman Christopher Mark Switzer
> Victoria, British Columbia
> For his contributions to the Royal Canadian Navy and to numerous local charities.
> 
> Hannah Catherine Taylor
> Winnipeg, Manitoba
> For her contributions to her community, and for raising awareness in support of the homeless.
> 
> Travis Toews
> Beaverlodge, Alberta
> For his dedication to the field of agriculture, and for his support for farmers and cattlemen.
> 
> Patricia (Pat) Varga
> Unity, Saskatchewan
> For the ongoing support and services she provides to our veterans, as Dominion president of the Royal Canadian Legion.
> 
> Kathryn Laura Whitfield
> Toronto, Ontario
> For her dedication to teaching and for inspiring Canadian youth to build a better world.
> 
> W. Brett Wilson, C.M.
> Calgary, Alberta
> For his many contributions as an entrepreneur, community leader and mentor.
> 
> Sergeant Angela Wintonyk, C.D.
> Petawawa, Ontario
> For her military service and for volunteering her time and resources to the Petawawa Military Families Resource Centre.
> 
> Pauline Wong
> Montréal, Quebec
> For her service to the Chinese community, and for encouraging other Chinese-Canadians to take pride in their heritage.
> 
> Lauren Woolstencroft
> North Vancouver, British Columbia
> For her contributions to alpine skiing, and for inspiring others to overcome obstacles.
> 
> Xinsheng (Simon) Zhong
> Toronto, Ontario
> For offering services to new immigrants and for promoting Chinese culture in Toronto.
> 
> (....)


----------



## dogger1936

Patricia (Pat) Varga
Unity, Saskatchewan
For the ongoing support and services she provides to our veterans, as Dominion president of the Royal Canadian Legion.


Now thats Irony.


----------



## jollyjacktar

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Now thats Irony.


That's an understatement...


----------



## mikeninercharlie

It has just been announced that all Members of Parliament will receive the DGM. Meaning the party girl / bar manager who wasn't even in the country during the election is about to be recognized, along with the 4 remaining Bloc members, for their dedicated service to Canada!


----------



## fraserdw

"I remember the process used to distribute the silver jubilee one. Same thing.

We use to joke that the recipients, when asked what the medal was for should answer "It's because my CO likes me but couldn't get me promoted"."



My CO did not like me and I did get promoted afterward and I got the Silver Jubilee.


----------



## Jarnhamar

mikeninercharlie said:
			
		

> It has just been announced that all Members of Parliament will receive the DGM. Meaning the party girl / bar manager who wasn't even in the country during the election is about to be recognized, along with the 4 remaining Bloc members, for their dedicated service to Canada!



lol. Nice.


Here I got one.

Chief Theresa Spence
Attawapiskat First Nation
For her incredible leadership, accounting and accountability.


----------



## Strike

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> Here I got one.
> 
> Chief Theresa Spence
> Attawapiskat First Nation
> For her incredible leadership, accounting, accountability *and fairness*.



FTFY


----------



## OldSolduer

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> lol. Nice.
> 
> 
> Here I got one.
> 
> Chief Theresa Spence
> Attawapiskat First Nation
> For her incredible leadership, accounting and accountability.



I second the motion Mr Chairperson! 

Good one!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Let's pay attention to the fact that anyone with internet access can read these boards.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Hard to believe that I can agree with some Blocs and NDPer's.


Six Quebec MPs have returned their medals that celebrate the Queen’s diamond jubilee


MONTREAL—Not everyone is thrilled that the federal government is spending millions, at a time of deep budget cuts, to celebrate the Queen’s diamond jubilee.
As might be predicted, such anti-monarchist sentiment is loudest in Quebec, where at least six MPs have returned their jubilee medals.

One nationalist group even says it’s planning counter-celebrations. That’s because, in the words of Mario Beaulieu, the head of Montreal’s Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, the group doesn’t give a royal damn about celebrating the Queen’s anniversary.

As for the anti-monarchy group Citizens for a Canadian Republic, it says this kind of royal worship is absurd, and while it’s the kind of spectacle you’d expect from the personality-cult dynasties of North Korea or Syria, it doesn’t belong in Canada.

And at least six Quebec MPs — including all four Bloc Québécois members, and at least two New Democrats — are simply refusing to hand out medals created for the occasion.

Bloc MP Louis Plamondon calls the $7.5 million being spent overall on jubilee celebrations a waste of money at this time, when the government is talking about changing pensions and slashing department budgets up to 10 per cent.

He says the money being spent on the celebrations is more proof of Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s total lack of understanding of Quebec.
Two Quebec New Democrats also are refusing the medals; however, the party’s interim leader, Nycole Turmel, says she and most MPs are thinking about how to best distribute them in their ridings.

The Canadian Press


----------



## aesop081

> proof of Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s total lack of understanding of Quebec.



Good thing there is 9 other provinces and 3 territories then, eh ?


----------



## NavalMoose

Why are so many MPs getting this anyway, are they outstanding in their field....no I didn't think so.


----------



## Danjanou

Oh goodie for those who for whatever reason are not blessed with this medal officially, you can go out and award yourself one for only a nominal fee. You can even colour coordniate your ribbon choice. :






http://www.servicecomm.co.uk/catalogue.php?product=683&productID=the-queen-s-diamond-jubilee-medal-2012-commemorative-issue





http://www.bigburymint.com/diamond-jubilee-commemorative-medal.aspx?language=en-gb


----------



## PuckChaser

NavalMoose said:
			
		

> Why are so many MPs getting this anyway, are they outstanding in their field....no I didn't think so.



Only CF members have to earn them, even if the process is going to be horribly skewed anyways.


----------



## dogger1936

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Only CF members have to earn them, even if the process is going to be horribly skewed anyways.



Earn is such a funny word.


----------



## Michael OLeary

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Earn is such a funny word.



Then use "thought deserving by their chain of command" with whatever level of poison anyone wants to flavour that with.


----------



## PuckChaser

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Earn is such a funny word.



I only used "earn" in the context that we only get 10,000 medals to spread around, its not automatic. Definitely see what you're getting at, however.


----------



## Journeyman

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Hard to believe that I can agree with some Blocs and NDPer's.


   :nod:


----------



## daftandbarmy

This guy obviously didn't get a QDJM either:

The number of medals on an officer's breast varies in inverse proportion to the square of the distance of his duties from the front line. 

--Charles Edward Montague--


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

So... That's why I only ever got my CD: I was at sea all the time!


----------



## Jarnhamar

So if I buy my own can I wear it on my DEUs or do I need to be given it by the CF?


----------



## Journeyman

The store-bought medals are only for your League of Frontiersmen uniform.   :nod:


----------



## Jarnhamar

Jokes on you I bought a separate medal for that uniform!


----------



## Danjanou

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The store-bought medals are only for your League of Frontiersmen uniform.   :nod:



Not true, check out the RCL on parade. :

Compliments of the 2011 Warriors Day Parade site ( I felt rather inadequate looking at my poor rack alongside these warriors)

http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5216.jpg

http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5217.jpg

http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5269.jpg


----------



## fraserdw

Yeah......Well..... I got my last Queen's Jub medal for being the oldest LT in the unit......and.....Gosh darn it....I am proud  ;D


----------



## Pusser

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Not true, check out the RCL on parade. :
> 
> Compliments of the 2011 Warriors Day Parade site ( I felt rather inadequate looking at my poor rack alongside these warriors)
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5216.jpg
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5217.jpg
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5269.jpg



Sigh.... :facepalm:


----------



## Remius

Funny.  The CBC did this big story on the medal.  On how it was designed and how important it was.  The story was narrated by none other than Peter Mansbridge himself.  Yep.  At the end they let everyone know that he himself had just received it too.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Not true, check out the RCL on parade. :
> 
> Compliments of the 2011 Warriors Day Parade site ( I felt rather inadequate looking at my poor rack alongside these warriors)
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5216.jpg
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5217.jpg
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5269.jpg


What the hell are they, besides the CD?   ???


----------



## dogger1936

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Not true, check out the RCL on parade. :
> 
> Compliments of the 2011 Warriors Day Parade site ( I felt rather inadequate looking at my poor rack alongside these warriors)
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5216.jpg
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5217.jpg
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/2011_WDP_Photo_Album_Medals/images/IMG_5269.jpg



Second photo... isn't the far right medal a cadet good service medal? Why is it on his blazer with his CF decorations?


----------



## Danjanou

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> What the hell are they, besides the CD?   ???



I'm sure a check of the two QDJM sites I posted would name most of them, i really can't be bothered. A quick glance earlier did show I'm "entilted" to about a dozen or so, providing I'm willing to waste my beer money on it. I do love how they colour coordinate the ribbons with issued gongs. I't all about having a pleasing pallet especillay when there is no order of precedence.  :


----------



## The Bread Guy

Crantor said:
			
		

> Funny.  The CBC did this big story on the medal.  On how it was designed and how important it was.  The story was narrated by none other than Peter Mansbridge himself.  Yep.  At the end they let everyone know that he himself had just received it too.


Sometimes, correlation DOES imply causality.....


----------



## jollyjacktar

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I'm sure a check of the two QDJM sites I posted would name most of thjem, i really can't be bothered. A quick glance earlier did show I'm "entilted" to about a dozen or so, providing I'm willing to waste my beer money on it. I do love how they colour coordinate the ribbons with issued gongs. I't all about having a pleasing pallet especillay when there is no order of precedence.  :



OK  found some of them, vini vidi barfi.  I went, looked and puked.   That's just sad...how inferior they must feel to spash out on that ... bling.   :not-again:  Sadder still on what a selection there is for all the Walts out there


----------



## Infanteer

Political hand-outs aside, having seen higher direction on the CF implementation of this recognition I generally have faith that this one will go to deserving members.  The chain of command is vetting all submissions to ensure that personnel being awarded the QDJM are, generally, among the top 10%.  The ORMM process is (roughly) being applied as a guideline.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

The top 10% of what??

As far as I can tell, it was turned into a "PC quota system" rather than "most deversing mbrs".  So I have to disagree with your "top 10%".

Right or wrong, it doesn't appear much different than the 125 gong-show (pun intended).

 :


----------



## armyvern

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> ... vini vidi barfi.  ...



 :rofl:

Just when I so needed a laugh: +300


----------



## Journeyman

Infanteer said:
			
		

> ..... I generally have faith that this one will go to deserving members.  The chain of command is vetting all submissions to ensure that personnel being awarded the QDJM are, generally, among the top 10%.....


I remember when you were more of a field soldier than a G1 type.     >


----------



## Strike

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I remember when you were more of a field soldier than a G1 type.     >



Hypothermia must be setting in...


----------



## Infanteer

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The top 10% of what??
> 
> As far as I can tell, it was turned into a "PC quota system" rather than "most deversing mbrs".  So I have to disagree with your "top 10%".



Submit the top 10-15% of your soldiers at each rank level.  Pretty simple direction.  Although the contradictory nature of para 1 (merit is the sole criteria) and para 2 (EE groups will be represented) is odd, I imagine it will be a tripping point only for a minority of the cases.

I've been involved with two annual iterations of the ORMM process; from my formation, the submissions are generally excellent and the right people get inducted into the Order.  The "quota" system has not caused problems for us when vetting ORMM submissions, hence my belief that it will only be a minor issue.  If the ORMM process is roughly being applied to the QDJM, which is highlighted in the CDS' intent and what I have observed to date, then I think the right people will be getting this.


----------



## Infanteer

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I remember when you were more of a field soldier than a G1 type.     >



Field soldier...pfft.  Don't you have a budget or a charity event to oversee.... :warstory:


----------



## Journeyman

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Field soldier...pfft.  Don't you have a budget or a charity event to oversee.... :warstory:


I wish; I'm sitting here doing QDJM nominations.   


Now if only I had an aboriginal WO who's 15% female......


----------



## Danjanou

Strike said:
			
		

> Hypothermia must be setting in...



Do you get a medal for that?



			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> I wish; I'm sitting here doing QDJM nominations.
> 
> 
> Now if only I had an aboriginal WO who's 15% female......



I can check the waiting room at work if you want. >


----------



## Rheostatic

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The first 60 for the Queen's 60th being presented today - from the GG's Info-machine....


And right after the first 60: http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_eng.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=30481&site=combatcamera


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> And right after the first 60: http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_eng.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=30481&site=combatcamera



That's so he and his wife can have matching medals.


----------



## Infanteer

He was obviously at the top 10% of 4* Generals in the CF!


----------



## Danjanou

Infanteer said:
			
		

> He was obviously at the top 10% of 4* Generals in the CF!



You remember he does lurk here now and then right Fridgetech. "Career going well....... career STOPS!"  8)


or at least your QDJM just got reassigned.


----------



## daftandbarmy

We've just convened a committee to nominate people for the medal. I, of course, pointed out that those on the team could not in good consience receive the medal itself. Consternation resulted...

This is an excellent rumour to start. Please pay it forward ;D


----------



## Danjanou

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> We've just convened a committee to nominate people for the medal. I, of course, pointed out that those on the team could not in good consience receive the medal itself. Consternation resulted...
> 
> This is an excellent rumour to start. Please pay it forward ;D



Unlike a certain unit I know whose three member committee for the 125 medal all coincidentally ended up with the only three 125 medals awarded to the unit. :


----------



## armyvern

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Unlike a certain unit I know whose three member committee for the 125 medal all coincidentally ended up with the only three 125 medals awarded to the unit. :



Are you fucking serious? What a load of utter bullshit.


----------



## Occam

I saw a MARGEN and a MARLANTGEN today on the subject of the allocation of the QDJM to those orgs.

I've seen shorter DAODs.


----------



## Danjanou

So is it too early to start a thread on the QPJM (Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medal)?  >


----------



## cupper

Danjanou said:
			
		

> So is it too early to start a thread on the QPJM (Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medal)?  >



Wait for the CCCM thread goes up.  ;D

(Charles & Camilla Coronation Medal)


----------



## McG

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Political hand-outs aside, having seen higher direction on the CF implementation of this recognition I generally have faith that this one will go to deserving members.  The chain of command is vetting all submissions to ensure that personnel being awarded the QDJM are, generally, among the top 10%.  The ORMM process is (roughly) being applied as a guideline.


I hope the future shows you to be right.


----------



## aesop081

MCG said:
			
		

> I hope the future shows you to be right.



I hope so too, but in the end, what's the difference.

Military members "compete" for a medal that is given out to civillains for often dubious reasons. Does having a "competition" somehow make the medal more meaningful ? A military guy who gets it stands next to an MP who got it just for being an MP......its the same medal.

Put one medal in a frame, add a small inscription that says "To canadian forces, for outstanding service" and hang it in the concourse of NDHQ. Done.


----------



## Danjanou

cupper said:
			
		

> Wait for the CCCM thread goes up.  ;D
> 
> (Charles & Camilla Coronation Medal)





Oh that one will show up a year after, forcing those lucky few who get it to again get their bling remounted. It's a plot by the retired who went into the medal court mounting business.  8)



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I hope so too, but in the end, what's the difference.
> 
> Military members "compete" for a medal that is given out to civillains for often dubious reasons. Does having a "competition" somehow make the medal more meaningful ? A military guy who gets it stands next to an MP who got it just for being an MP......its the same medal.
> 
> Put one medal in a frame, add a small inscription that says "To canadian forces, for outstanding service" and hang it in the concourse of NDHQ. Done.



You know I could live with this, sort of like the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to all UN Peacekeepers or, and this is stretching it, Malta GC.  Either this or use the Brit system, your're in uniform you get one unless you got the last one then you get a bar for it.


----------



## Cadwr

So I've been watching the poor Chief next to me pull his beard hair out over this one for weeks.  I overheard a quote that may be deep and profound, or may just be nonsensical.  It made me chuckle and think a little nonetheless.  (Or maybe it was just how exasperated he became while saying it.)

"Sir, 20% of the medals designated for your organization at that rank level must go to females, because 20% of the soldiers in your organization at that rank level are females.  Now I am not one to tell you how you do business, but you have a lot of medals to award.  If you were tossing coins, I would not have to tell you that because 50% of the sides of the coin are heads, I expect to see heads roughly 50% of the time.  All other things being equal... yes... yes sir... well sir, all other things _should_ be equal, and if they aren't, then I would suggest that your organization is dong something wrong. Yes... Yes Sir.  Yes, it is precisely because gender *IS* a non-factor that this shouldnt be an issue.  If you are going to tell me that the females in your organization are disproportionately incompetent, I am going to tell you that there is a systemic problem in how your organization trains and employs females."


----------



## Strike

Cadwr said:
			
		

> "...If you are going to tell me that the females in your organization are disproportionately incompetent, I am going to tell you that there is a systemic problem in how your organization trains and employs females."



That's AWESOME!!


----------



## daftandbarmy

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Unlike a certain unit I know whose three member committee for the 125 medal all coincidentally ended up with the only three 125 medals awarded to the unit. :



That would have been my unit at the time? The CO, RSM, Adjt all just happened to get the medal. Must have done the trick as the CO went on the become Bde Comd, so he was obviously an excellent judge of character.

The nominations I put in for the medal (you know, including those underserving Cpl/Ptes who had done multiple tours in Former Yugo) were ignored, of course.  :


----------



## dogger1936

So the big question is...Can you buy the british version and mount it along with your QDJM  >

Maybe then I'll actually bother to apply for the sacrifice medal. Add 3 medals in one shot.  ;D


----------



## avgpjon

recceguy said:
			
		

> So I wonder how this is going to play out for Service members?
> 
> Are they to be part of the 60,000? Will we have another lottery fiasco? Is there to be a special run outside the 60,000 for the military?
> 
> _'Inquiring minds want to know!'_



11000 (18.3%) for CF.


----------



## aesop081

avgpjon said:
			
		

> 11000 (18.3%) for CF.



Yes, he knows. We all know.

But.....Is that 11 000 included in the 60K Canadian total or is it over-and-above, making it 71k. Thats what he's getting at.


----------



## avgpjon

Comparison of CF distribution of other commemoratives:

Centennial       29500, CF 8500 (28.8%)
125                 42000, CF 4000 (9.5%)
Silver              30000, CF 7000 (23.3%)
Golden            46000, CF 9600 (20.8%)


----------



## Teeps74

For my own part, I want nothing to do with this fiasco. All or none, pretty simple. Their are other, more appropriate awards for excellent service and soldiers, sailors and airmen who are deserving should get those and not some trinket trivialized by issuance to people for being in the right job at the right time (MPs).

Now, if issuance was reserved for only those exceptional cases, then sure. But the fact that it is issued carte blanche to one group, but not another makes this a trinket and nothing more.  

/End rant, gotta get back to studying.


----------



## JMesh

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Second photo... isn't the far right medal a cadet good service medal? Why is it on his blazer with his CF decorations?



Not quite. Army Cadet League of Canada Volunteer Service Medal, awarded by the Army Cadet League of Canada to people who volunteer for a minimum of 5 years with the army cadet program. Nevertheless, definitely shouldn't be there.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> For my own part, I want nothing to do with this fiasco. All or none, pretty simple. Their are other, more appropriate awards for excellent service and soldiers, sailors and airmen who are deserving should get those and not some trinket trivialized by issuance to people for being in the right job at the right time (MPs).
> 
> Now, if issuance was reserved for only those exceptional cases, then sure. But the fact that it is issued carte blanche to one group, but not another makes this a trinket and nothing more.
> 
> /End rant, gotta get back to studying.



Too bad we have to wait until a significant milestone in a monarch's rein is reached to recognize deserving people with a gong like this. Here's a suggestion to make the decision making easy while incenting the right behaviour: give one to everyone who has been awarded something for distinguished service under fire/on operations (i.e., VC to CEFCOM commendation/MiD/ Bronze star etc), then send the rest back with thanks.

"It is with such baubles that men are led"
Napoleon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Honour


----------



## Cadwr

I've heard this conversation almost daily for the last few weeks as well:

"No Sir, you are only alotted 1 QDJM at that rank level.  Yes Sir, I appreciate that you have multiple individuals who you believe are worthy of recognition.  Sir, are you aware that there are other honours and awards for which you can nominate those individuals?  Uh-huh... uh-huh.. you don't say...  well Sir, that sounds like a commander's commendation at the least to me, heck, maybe even an MSM.  Would you like me to forward you the forms?"

If nothing else, I remain hopeful that some one somewhere, in the course of going through the exercise and considering whom to nominate for this medal, will be inclined to pursue recognition for those he wishes to nominate, QDJM or not.  If a name comes up as being genuinely "deserving," but is beyond the "quota" - well then write that troop up for recognition appropriate to his or her situation.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Cadwr said:
			
		

> I've heard this conversation almost daily for the last few weeks as well:
> 
> "No Sir, you are only alotted 1 QDJM at that rank level.  Yes Sir, I appreciate that you have multiple individuals who you believe are worthy of recognition.  Sir, are you aware that there are other honours and awards for which you can nominate those individuals?  Uh-huh... uh-huh.. you don't say...  well Sir, that sounds like a commander's commendation at the least to me, heck, maybe even an MSM.  Would you like me to forward you the forms?"
> 
> If nothing else, I remain hopeful that some one somewhere, in the course of going through the exercise and considering whom to nominate for this medal, will be inclined to pursue recognition for those he wishes to nominate, QDJM or not.  If a name comes up as being genuinely "deserving," but is beyond the "quota" - well then write that troop up for recognition appropriate to his or her situation.



I support this idea, it's a very good point.


----------



## dogger1936

JMesh said:
			
		

> Not quite. Army Cadet League of Canada Volunteer Service Medal, awarded by the Army Cadet League of Canada to people who volunteer for a minimum of 5 years with the army cadet program. Nevertheless, definitely shouldn't be there.



Beautiful. Since moving away from a larger CFB I've seen some great combo's at pde's and remembrance days.

Unreal.


----------



## medicineman

Cadwr said:
			
		

> I've heard this conversation almost daily for the last few weeks as well:
> 
> "No Sir, you are only alotted 1 QDJM at that rank level.  Yes Sir, I appreciate that you have multiple individuals who you believe are worthy of recognition.  Sir, are you aware that there are other honours and awards for which you can nominate those individuals?  Uh-huh... uh-huh.. you don't say...  well Sir, that sounds like a commander's commendation at the least to me, heck, maybe even an MSM.  Would you like me to forward you the forms?"
> 
> If nothing else, I remain hopeful that some one somewhere, in the course of going through the exercise and considering whom to nominate for this medal, will be inclined to pursue recognition for those he wishes to nominate, QDJM or not.  If a name comes up as being genuinely "deserving," but is beyond the "quota" - well then write that troop up for recognition appropriate to his or her situation.



Sounds alot like something I heard at a Formation Chief's O-Group in Victoria a couple years ago...those other commendations, awards and orders are often cast aside/ignored/forgotten about for the normal working folks, even if they qualify or deserve them.  This sounds like something that should be added as at least an EO at the Junior Leader Level - awareness of the various ways of rewarding your subordinates for work that they do above and beyond.  It shouldn't be left up to the mid-level supervisor or the junior officer to get things on the go this way - it should come from the lowest level of supervision, the person that sees their day to day work.  Then when something mentally challenged like this medal lotto comes up, there are already files on the CO's desk for other things as well - if they think they qualify for something bettter, they can move the file to another pile.  This is something that should be sent down the pipe quarterly as a reminder to the NCO/WO level and the commissioned appointments to ensure good work gets recognized somewhere other than on PDR/PER's. 

MM


----------



## armyvern

Cadwr said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> If nothing else, I remain hopeful that some one somewhere, in the course of going through the exercise and considering whom to nominate for this medal, will be inclined to pursue recognition for those he wishes to nominate, QDJM or not.  If a name comes up as being genuinely "deserving," but is beyond the "quota" - well then write that troop up for recognition appropriate to his or her situation.



During my three weeks at work ... First I worked on MSM and Commendation nominations and submitted them. When all that was done, I looked at the QDJM stuff. Priorities are correct for some of us; have faith.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Cadwr said:
			
		

> I've heard this conversation almost daily for the last few weeks as well:
> 
> "No Sir, you are only alotted 1 QDJM at that rank level.  Yes Sir, I appreciate that you have multiple individuals who you believe are worthy of recognition.  Sir, are you aware that there are other honours and awards for which you can nominate those individuals?  Uh-huh... uh-huh.. you don't say...  well Sir, that sounds like a commander's commendation at the least to me, heck, maybe even an MSM.  Would you like me to forward you the forms?"
> 
> If nothing else, I remain hopeful that some one somewhere, in the course of going through the exercise and considering whom to nominate for this medal, will be inclined to pursue recognition for those he wishes to nominate, QDJM or not.  If a name comes up as being genuinely "deserving," but is beyond the "quota" - well then write that troop up for recognition appropriate to his or her situation.



Brilliant!  :nod:


----------



## armyvern

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Too bad we have to wait until a significant milestone in a monarch's rein is reached to recognize deserving people with a gong like this. Here's a suggestion to make the decision making easy while incenting the right behaviour: give one to everyone who has been awarded something for distinguished service under fire/on operations (i.e., VC to CEFCOM commendation/MiD/ Bronze star etc), then send the rest back with thanks.
> 
> "It is with such baubles that men are led"
> Napoleon
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Honour



I think your criteria, in and of itself as written above, would actually disqualify them for the QDJM ... as it states that they can not be nominated based upon things for which they have already received official recognition.  :-\

They'd have to meet the other 'bits' and have other stuff to back up the nomination in addition to the other award they've received. Along with all the others who are being nominated for being worthy of recognition (even if the others' worthiness stems from a non-war related action that certainly should not make them "unworthy" of the QDJM).


----------



## Pusser

avgpjon said:
			
		

> 11000 (18.3%) for CF.



Actually it's about 10% of the CF - the entire CF (i.e. Regular, Primary Reserve, CIC and Rangers), which comes to about 110,000 members.

However, in answer to the actual question, there are a total of 60,000 QDJMs to be awarded and the 11,000 going to the CF are included in that total.  This is the largest single allocation to any one group.


----------



## armyvern

Pusser said:
			
		

> Actually it's about 10% of the CF - the entire CF (i.e. Regular, Primary Reserve, CIC and Rangers), which comes to about 110,000 members.
> 
> However, in answer to the actual question, there are a total of 60,000 QDJMs to be awarded and the 11,000 going to the CF are included in that total.  This is the largest single allocation to any one group, notwithstanding the allocation to 100% of Parliament.



Fixed that for you.


----------



## Pusser

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Fixed that for you.



Right you are.  I didn't think about the allocation to parliamentarians (30 each) as being one allocation, but a rather a lot of little ones.


----------



## Good2Golf

No doubt there will be a few QSJM, QGJM, QDJM hat-trick guys out there...


----------



## armyvern

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> No doubt there will be a few QSJM, QGJM, QDJM hat-trick guys out there...



And the old standby overtime bonus of the 125 (making up 4 of the 5 they will have on their chests)!!  >


----------



## Good2Golf

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> And the old standby overtime bonus of the 125 (making up 4 of the 5 they will have on their chests)!!  >



...oh, we'll get to that in five years...the Canada 125 & 150 crowd...  ;D


----------



## Danjanou

JMesh said:
			
		

> Not quite. Army Cadet League of Canada Volunteer Service Medal, awarded by the Army Cadet League of Canada to people who volunteer for a minimum of 5 years with the army cadet program. Nevertheless, definitely shouldn't be there.



Then technically the CD shouldn't be there either. The wearer "earned" both as opposed to ordered the rest of his rack online.  8)

Although I do see your point.


----------



## Pusser

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Then technically the CD shouldn't be there either. The wearer "earned" both as opposed to ordered the rest of his rack online.  8)
> 
> Although I do see your point.



Actually, the CD is the ONLY one that should be there as it is the only one that is part of the Canadian Honours System and thus, the only one that should be worn on the left.  "Popcorn" medals go on the right.


----------



## FSTO

So we finished the selection of nominations, filled out the forms and will be sending them off tomorrow. I have an inkling of the amount of staff work throughout the CF that went into making sure the selection process was "fair". But you have to wonder about the cost in man hrs and staffing and if it would have been much cheaper and a lot less staffing to stamp out the amount of medals required for everyone with 3 or more years of service.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Never thought I'd say this.
I realize the LOL factor in this medal but seeing the pride in the eyes of young pirvates and corporals who've been nominated for this medal by their peers and immediate supervisors for actual jobs well done really has me checking my criticism of this- at least in front of them.


----------



## McG

This medal has the potential to be a good thing if all involved protect the integrity of the process (ie. follow the CANFORGEN).


----------



## jollyjacktar

I could only nominate one of my guys, I had two that were worthy of it.  I would have preferred to see them both be sent forward, of course the one may never see it at the end of the process.


----------



## Good2Golf

As others have said, if the integrity of the meriting process is maintained, then this medal should, for the most part, not be looked at as a "joke / last man standing / me and my best friends" that other commemorative medals have been in the past.

Grimaldus, excellent point about the young troops' perspective, i.e. not having knowledge of the baggage associated with previous such medals.  :nod:


Regards
G2G


----------



## The Bread Guy

A summary of info here (via Google Docs) re:  what's been budgeted and what contracts have been awarded so far dealing with the celebrations from a written response to a question in the House of Commons - a few highlights to tease:

Dept of Cdn Heritage has allocated "up to $7.5M" for the celebrations;  $2M for "community based celebrations"; $1.8M for "awareness initiatives; and $3.7 for the medals program
Top 3 provinces being allocated $ for community celebrations:  Ontario (~$334K), PEI (~$169K) and Saskatchewan (~$130K)
Among the contracts awarded to date:  $16,555 for "Crown of Maples";  $94,675.50 for printing of 100,000 Crown of Maples and initial distribution to LG's and Commissioners; $52,650 for 300K Diamond Jubilee Lapel Pins


----------



## The Bread Guy

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> A summary of info here (via Google Docs) re:  what's been budgeted and what contracts have been awarded so far dealing with the celebrations from a written response to a question in the House of Commons - a few highlights to tease:
> 
> Dept of Cdn Heritage has allocated "up to $7.5M" for the celebrations;  $2M for "community based celebrations"; $1.8M for "awareness initiatives; and $3.7 for the medals program
> Top 3 provinces being allocated $ for community celebrations:  Ontario (~$334K), PEI (~$169K) and Saskatchewan (~$130K)
> Among the contracts awarded to date:  $16,555 for "Crown of Maples";  $94,675.50 for printing of 100,000 Crown of Maples and initial distribution to LG's and Commissioners; $52,650 for 300K Diamond Jubilee Lapel Pins


Here's what Postmedia News is focusing on:





> The Conservative government has set aside more than $100,000 for paper flags and lapel pins for celebrations to mark the sixth decade of Queen Elizabeth’s reign.
> 
> The costing was tabled by Heritage Minister James Moore in response to a written question by NDP MP Tyrone Benskin.
> 
> Details of various contracts were also included in the document, among them: $74,180 for 682,000 paper flags to be sent to the public, provinces and territories; $52,650 for 300,000 lapel pins; and $28,883.20 on posters.
> 
> The government also plans to spend $94,675.50 to print Crown of Maples — a government publication that “makes information on the Crown in Canada available to Canadians in an interesting and educational format,” according to the Canadian Heritage website.
> 
> Overall, Canadian Heritage expects to spend $7.5 million dollars from the department’s budget for celebrations and commemorations. Of the funds, $2 million will go toward community celebrations, $1.8 million for “awareness initiatives” and $3.7 million for the diamond jubilee medals program.
> 
> Of the $2 million for regional celebrations in the 13 provinces and territories, Ontario will receive the bulk of the funds ($333,947). Prince Edward Island ($169,150), British Columbia ($156,525), Saskatchewan ($129,630) and Nova Scotia ($92,205) round out the Top 5. The Yukon will receive the least amount of money at $10,000.
> 
> The $2 million in funding also includes $800,000 handed out to national organizations that are not represented by the regional events ....


----------



## c.jacob

In the past week I saw an individual wearing the silver QDJM pin on his uniform.  Is this actually authorized, or better yet is there anything written about it?


----------



## Bzzliteyr

pin?


----------



## c.jacob

It's a diamond shaped pin with the Queen's emblem on it. I think politicians have been handing them out for various reasons.


----------



## Haggis

Pugsley said:
			
		

> In the past week I saw an individual wearing the silver QDJM pin on his uniform.  Is this actually authorized, or better yet is there anything written about it?



The medals are already being distributed.  There are Diamond Jubliee pins available, as noted by Pugsley, but they are not authorized for wear on the uniform.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Ah, yes.. I believe one of the forum members has received his QDJM...Jim Seggie.

That reminds me I have to go get my 1812 pin.


----------



## Snakedoc

I believe my unit is just distributing the QDJM based on the people with the most amount of time in their rank...  Hardly the top 10%... and of course the command team ensures by this calculation that they all get theirs too..


----------



## brihard

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> I believe my unit is just distributing the QDJM based on the people with the most amount of time in their rank...  Hardly the top 10%... and of course the command team ensures by this calculation that they all get theirs too..



In rather explicit contravention of policy, then, if I'm not mistaken...


----------



## Journeyman

Brihard said:
			
		

> In rather explicit contravention of policy, then, if I'm not mistaken...


Yes indeed. Merit-criteria was quite clear in the instructions, in order to avoid the clique- and age-driven goat rodeo of the QGJM. Yet, it appears even something that simple could get screwed up. :not-again:


----------



## brihard

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Yes indeed. Merit-criteria was quite clear in the instructions, in order to avoid the clique- and age-driven goat rodeo of the QGJM. Yet, it appears even something that simple could get screwed up. :not-again:



<Shrug> So it'll just get shrugged off as another useless gimme medal, as expected by most. Anyone in uniform will be able to tell the difference between a commemorative and tour bling.


----------



## ModlrMike

Just back from Ceremonial Divisions. 5 MS 1 PO2 1 PO1 2 Lt(N) 2 LCdr

Knowing the recipients, I think this was done fairly, given the constraints the CO was under.


----------



## DirtyDog

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Yes indeed. Merit-criteria was quite clear in the instructions, in order to avoid the clique- and age-driven goat rodeo of the QGJM. Yet, it appears even something that simple could get screwed up. :not-again:


Apparently there was a "diversity" clause though.....


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

I don't understand why they can't just do what the Brits did and issue it to everyone that is serving, it would alleviate a lot of issues.


----------



## George Wallace

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I don't understand why they can't just do what the Brits did and issue it to everyone that is serving, it would alleviate a lot of issues.



That was asked at the beginning of this topic.  The 'frugalness' of our Government was listed as the main reason why it isn't.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That was asked at the beginning of this topic.  The 'frugalness' of our Government was listed as the main reason why it isn't.



Surely procuring a 100,000 medals is not that significant of a cost, considering how much money we "waste" (depending on your point of view) on other things.  But alas its already a done deal.  All I can say is the troops have already written it off as a medal the senior leadership give their buddies.  Its pretty sad because I know of some folk that are still waiting on GCS-SWA bars and medals for OP HESTIA etc...


----------



## Fishbone Jones

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Surely procuring a 100,000 medals is not that significant of a cost, considering how much money we "waste" (depending on your point of view) on other things.  But alas its already a done deal.  All I can say is the troops have already written it off as a medal the senior leadership give their buddies.  Its pretty sad because I know of some folk that are still waiting on GCS-SWA bars and medals for OP HESTIA etc...



Are you saying all their buddies were merited high enough to get it?

Or are you saying your leadership is dishonest and can't follow direction?


----------



## Journeyman

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> All I can say is the troops have already written it off as a medal the senior leadership give their buddies.


In your profile, you claim to be a Lieutenant. Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to exercise some of that "leadership" you get paid to exercise, and have a talk with your troops.

Feel free to chat with your chain of command to ensure you understand the criteria they were obligated to use in selecting recipients.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

I am saying that is the general impression I have gotten from the soldiers whenever the Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal is discussed.  You can say what you want about it; however, the CF track record over the past little while concerning honours and awards isn't exactly glowing.  Case in point: personnel not receiving medals and awards until years after they earned it.  That is for another discussion, however.

Its all optics and when you have a medal such as the Queens Diamond Jubilee where you literally have to do nothing for it and you only issue it to a select few people, handpicked by the CoC of course things such as career padding are going to come into question.


----------



## Journeyman

You didn't even pause to think through what I said, did you?

Oh well, I guess there's nothing to be done.   :not-again:


----------



## 57Chevy

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I don't understand why they can't just do what the Brits did and issue it to everyone that is serving, it would alleviate a lot of issues.



Are you talking about this?



			
				Danjanou said:
			
		

> http://www.servicecomm.co.uk/catalogue.php?product=683&productID=the-queen-s-diamond-jubilee-medal-2012-commemorative-issue



It actually mentions, "to all who served in uniform as a lasting memento of her sixty glorious years as Monarch."



			
				Danjanou said:
			
		

> ... you can go out and award yourself one for only a nominal fee.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Sorry I was replying to Recceguy and did not realize you had posted.  I am making a general statement concerning the optics of how the medal was issued.  The Canadian Forces isn't the only armed force that does this sort of thing and its nothing new.  I am just saying if they were concerned about this they would of issued it to everyone.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

57Chevy said:
			
		

> Are you talking about this?
> 
> It actually mentions, "to all who served in uniform as a lasting memento of her sixty glorious years as Monarch."



No I am talking about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Diamond_Jubilee_Medal


> In the United Kingdom and its overseas territories, 450,000 medals were awarded to all members of HM Armed Forces (regular and reserves), operational members of HM Prison Service, and emergency services personnel (including Police Community Support Officers) who have been in paid service, retained or in a voluntary capacity, and who had completed five full calendar years of service on 6 February 2012. Living holders of the Victoria Cross and George Cross and members of the Royal Household were also eligible.


----------



## George Wallace

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Sorry I was replying to Recceguy and did not realize you had posted.  I am making a general statement concerning the optics of how the medal was issued.  The Canadian Forces isn't the only armed force that does this sort of thing and its nothing new.  I am just saying if they were concerned about this they would of issued it to everyone.



Optics?

Concerned?  Who is concerned?   Someone not getting a medal?

Have you priced the cost of the medal?

Where would you propose the cutoff line be?  Those currently serving?  Those who have served in last ten years?  Those who have served since the Coronation?  Who, Where and When?


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Optics?
> 
> Concerned?  Who is concerned?   Someone not getting a medal?
> 
> Have you priced the cost of the medal?
> 
> Where would you propose the cutoff line be?  Those currently serving?  Those who have served in last ten years?  Those who have served since the Coronation?  Who, Where and When?



If the UK, with all their budget slashing, defence reductions and faltering economy can produce 450,000 Medals I am sure we could of come up with the cash to produce a quarter of that amount.  If we were going to issue a medal like this it should of been all or nothing.  Australia didn't issue one so why did we.

I myself am not actually overly concerned at all, in fact I don't give a damn about the medal.  Heck maybe I might even get one as LFCA hasn't issued their allotment yet.  I am just merely stating what the optics from many are on this medal.  

In any regard this is a forum where you can post opinions, my opinion being it should of been an all or nothing issuing of the medal.  If you don't agree with it thats fine, then will agree to disagree then  8)


----------



## Ostrozac

The Brit solution has the advantage of simplicity -- our approach did involve a considerable amount of effort, and the medals still haven't been awarded.

If the Brit benchmark of 5 years of service as of 6 Feb 2012 would result in more medals being awarded than we can afford, there is the option of increasing the years of service required until you reach the number of medals you have available to present. For example if the benchmark of 5 years of service results in too many medals being issued, and 15 years results in too few, award it to all those with 10 years of service... adjust as needed.

I prefer the British approach on this one to ours -- because I think that the Canadian honours and awards system is often needlessly complex, and when there is a choice between adding complexity and simplicity, I prefer simplicity. I'm sure that there were good reasons for our honours system to recognize 13 different campaign medals for service in the Former Yugoslavia over the last 20 years. I just would have preferred something simpler.


----------



## Journeyman

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I am just saying if they were concerned about this they would of issued it to everyone.


Then the selection criteria wouldn't be based on merit, which you _should_ be explaining. If merit is "nothing" then perhaps you're right; the GDJM will be perceived to be just as meaningless as some people's education or Phase 3/4 training -- after all, even a mere Lt can do that, right?

Or you could step up to the plate, _never pass a fault_ as it were, and correct your troops' misperceptions -- be the role model; that would have merit, even if you don't get an award for it.


......but that's just my opinion.   8)


----------



## George Wallace

Are you saying that we should be like the British and copy them all the way?  Or should we be like the Americans, our neighbours to the South?  Or perhaps we should be .......ummmmm......oh yeah.....Canadian........... and have our own system of Honours and Awards?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## MedCorps

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I myself am not actually overly concerned at all, in fact I don't give a damn about the medal.  Heck maybe I might even get one as LFCA hasn't issued their allotment yet.  I am just merely stating what the optics from many are on this medal.



You should be concerned about it.  If your troops are bitching because they think cronyism is at play it affects morale and loyalty to the leadership.  This is your problem.  

Wait until the dust has settled and then take a good look at who was awarded the QDJM.  For people whom you are "suspect of deserving it" then go look at the short citation to see if it BS or not. Only then call BS.  Before you screen systematic BS too loud, examine the total of number of people you think "deserve it" versus the BS members who were awarded it.  Examine the ratio.  Look at the rank distribution in the your unit.  

I still think that everyone with five years of service on the date of HM Diamond Jubilee should have been issued it, and I would have done away with the quotas.  Nonetheless when I look at who is receiving this award (both Officer and NCM) I think that the CF has done a pretty good job versus other commemorative medals. In the few cases I went "what the f? How did he get that?" I was presently surprised at the rational when I looked at the citation. We have a lot of people doing a lot of good things in the CF. 

MC


----------



## PPCLI Guy

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Sorry I was replying to Recceguy and did not realize you had posted.  I am making a general statement concerning the optics of how the medal was issued.  The Canadian Forces isn't the only armed force that does this sort of thing and its nothing new.  I am just saying if they were concerned about this they would of issued it to everyone.



So clearly "they" (which I assumes means the CF) were not concerned about "this" (which I assume means the optics) for a good reason.  That reason was clearly identified in the CANFORGEN that stated that merit would be the over-arching criteria for the award, within bands of rank, gender, and language (proportionally per capita).  The rationale that "they" used for "this" are in black and white.  I fail to see the issue here.

As to why so many have jumped on you about this topic, the reality is that you are, or at least purport to be, an officer.  You are "they" to those who you serve (your troops in case you haven't figured that out yet).  That means your job, even on an internet forum, is to shape and inform their opinions and believes, not to merely parrot them.  That is one of the hardest lessons of command....and I wish you luck with that.  If you get it wrong, the "they" that will ultimately suffer will be your troops.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> So clearly "they" (which I assumes means the CF) were not concerned about "this" (which I assume means the optics) for a good reason.  That reason was clearly identified in the CANFORGEN that stated that merit would be the over-arching criteria for the award, within bands of rank, gender, and language (proportionally per capita).  The rationale that "they" used for "this" are in black and white.  I fail to see the issue here.
> 
> As to why so many have jumped on you about this topic, the reality is that you are, or at least purport to be, an officer.  You are "they" to those who you serve (your troops in case you haven't figured that out yet).  That means your job, even on an internet forum, is to shape and inform their opinions and believes, not to merely parrot them.  That is one of the hardest lessons of command....and I wish you luck with that.  If you get it wrong, the "they" that will ultimately suffer will be your troops.



WILCO, Out!


----------



## jollyjacktar

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Then the selection criteria wouldn't be based on merit, which you _should_ be explaining. If merit is "nothing" then perhaps you're right; the GDJM will be perceived to be just as meaningless as some people's education or Phase 3/4 training -- after all, even a mere Lt can do that, right?



Am I incorrect, or is there not some "gender specific" awards being made?  IIRC, I understand a number of medals are specifically designated by percentage for female members.  The percentage of female members in my unit is low enough that they should all be automatically merited regardless of performance.  If, IIRC, then the "merit" argument goes off the table.  Am I in err?


----------



## PuckChaser

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Am I incorrect, or is there not some "gender specific" awards being made?  IIRC, I understand a number of medals are specifically designated by percentage for female members.  The percentage of female members in my unit is low enough that they should all be automatically merited regardless of performance.  If, IIRC, then the "merit" argument goes off the table.  Am I in err?



I remember reading that a certain percentage of all medals had to be awarded to female members. If you had a small unit than yes, I could see how some people could get merited without merit. The same idea with the percentage of medals awarded to each rank band.


----------



## Journeyman

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Am I incorrect, or is there not some "gender specific" awards being made?



To quote the more eloquent guy...    


			
				PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> .....the CANFORGEN that stated that merit would be the over-arching criteria for the award, within bands of rank, gender, and language (proportionally per capita).


I'm guessing, but presuming 20% of the CF is female, then 20% of the medals should go to the top females based on merit.

This also means that the top MCpls will get medals, just as the top WOs and top Capts; this avoids the _perception_ of cronyism had all the medals gone to COs/RSMs, etc.

Is it a perfect system? No.  Is it fair and equitable? I think it is.  In a small unit, should a CO step up and inform higher HQ that the unit does not have a suitable number of females who _qualify_ on merit? Yes.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Journeyman said:
			
		

> In a small unit, should a CO step up and inform higher HQ that the unit does not have a suitable number of females who _qualify_ on merit? Yes.


Bet he won't though.  Why rock the boat?


----------



## Journeyman

My CO did. His judgment was accepted by the chain of command.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Good for him.  That gives me more faith in the system.  Frankly, despite all the noise and paperwork for this merit process I'll admit I'm so jaded following the previous commemorative medal issues of the past 20 or so years.  They were quite literally, gong shows in many cases which gave me a bad case of jaundiced eye.


----------



## Tank Troll

Journeyman said:
			
		

> In a small unit, should a CO step up and inform higher HQ that the unit does not have a suitable number of females who _qualify_ on merit? Yes.



As did mine we also did that for certain other ranks that had a limited amount of personal in that rank and we felt the did not meet the criteria.


----------



## armyvern

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Am I incorrect, or is there not some "gender specific" awards being made?  IIRC, I understand a number of medals are specifically designated by percentage for female members.  The percentage of female members in my unit is low enough that they should all be automatically merited regardless of performance.  If, IIRC, then the "merit" argument goes off the table.  Am I in err?



Eerily, this "gender" thing works both ways - not just females.

In my current Unit, very large with less than 10 % females employed within, we simply pulled up the top 10% of PERs for each rank as the "merit" criteria for this medal was priority number one. At some ranks, we have no females. We then checked gender, language etc of those top 10% ... and those top-ten % performers worked out to be exactly proportional to the total population of each within our Unit. Funny how that works.

In other Units that I have served with, the vast percentage of the employees were female. In one, it was 80%. If the Unit's PER system (based on merit) is working properly, then 80% of the top ten performers would turn out to be women and 20% men. Thus that Unit would have 80% of it's QDJM nominations being female and approx 20% male.

Pan-CF, if all Units followed such, then the proportions of awardees across the CF should work out fairly be representative of their total percent representation within the CF.

As has been stated previously, merit is the primary and over-riding factor in the criteria. Strictly speaking, if a Unit, for example, has 50% male and 50% female at the Cpl rank level employed within it, but only 1 female Cpl (or male Cpl) is in the top-ten of performers on PERs (the MERIT criteria) - totally against the law of averages, then that suggests an inherent problem within the Unit vice a problem with the QDJM criteria itself.

Any Unit who finds their top-ten merit via PER are not even close to proportional representation of their actual gender or language actual populace ... should be taking a look at itself to figure out why that is ocurring. It has been years since I have experienced this and it used to be commonplace. The shock and awe my PER received at Trenton garnered much hulaballo from the CoC when I was submitted to Wing Merit Boards and it was returned ranking me as the #1 Cpl on the base; although not gender or language related, I was flat out told when receiving it from the WSupO and the WLEO, that it was simply unheard of (at that time) for a support trade to go to Wg Boards and end up with a ranking let alone come out #1 over and above hard air trade pers. Shit like that is meriting persons based upon other things rather than "performance" and that is NOT was is supposed to be happening in the CF these days.

Those times, I hope, have long disappeared with the dinosaur.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Just so everyone knows what it's worth the President of my wife's union got one......... >


----------



## ArmyRick

Armyvern,

If I am not mistaken and if I follow the last part of your thread correctly, I see a flaw. How can different trades (MOSIDs) be merited against each other? I was at a mixed trades organization for quite a while and the meriting was based on rank, MOC/MOSID and P Res/Reg F. For example if you had 1 cbt engineer corporal at the unit then he ranked 1 out of 1. Is this not the case with said air wing? 

Confused, please enlighten me. Break out the puppets and stick figures if you have to (as my wife would say when I really can't follow something).


----------



## dapaterson

I've seen both done simultaneously:  For PERs, Cpl Bloggins may be 1 of 1 in the Cbt Engineers, but overall in the unit, Cpl Jones might be 1 of 127 in the Cpls.

That sort of ranking is sometimes used for some of the bennies that come along or for high-profile tasks.


----------



## Journeyman

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Just so everyone knows what it's worth the President of my wife's union got one......... >


Dammit; I almost had a heart attack, misreading that and thinking wives were unionizing.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Dammit; I almost had a heart attack, misreading that and thinking wives were unionizing.



Yea right,........like what else could they take from us?? :crybaby:


----------



## McG

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> If the UK, with all their budget slashing, defence reductions and faltering economy can produce 450,000 Medals I am sure we could of come up with the cash to produce a quarter of that amount.  If we were going to issue a medal like this it should of been all or nothing.


Despite the apparently large number of units or HQs that have chosen to ignore or bastardize the merit criteria guidance, I prefer our attempt at issuing a merit based medal as opposed to an all-or-none medal.  More times than not, one will be able to recognize the existence of merit behind the medal in our current approach.  In an all-or-none approach, the medal is simply meaningless everywhere.



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> ... we simply pulled up the top 10% of PERs for each rank as the "merit" criteria for this medal was priority number one.


Skimming from the unit PER ranking was also explicitly prohibited as a selection criteria.  It potentially rewards those of lesser merit who have climbed to the top of the ranking by outlasting everyone in rank, while it also penalizes others of high merit who were recently promoted and receiving a first or second PER in rank.



			
				ArmyRick said:
			
		

> If I am not mistaken and if I follow the last part of your thread correctly, I see a flaw. How can different trades (MOSIDs) be merited against each other? I was at a mixed trades organization for quite a while and the meriting was based on rank, MOC/MOSID and P Res/Reg F. For example if you had 1 cbt engineer corporal at the unit then he ranked 1 out of 1. Is this not the case with said air wing?
> 
> Confused, please enlighten me. Break out the puppets and stick figures if you have to (as my wife would say when I really can't follow something).


In Section 5, members are ranked within MOS (Note: Reg F & PRes are different MOS and are therefore never ranked against eachother in Sect 5).  In Section 6, members are ranked against everyone of the same rank across MOSs within the unit ... and for MWO, Capt & Maj that are signed at the Fmn level, the members should be ranked against everyone of the same rank across MOSs within the Bde/Wing/CTC.  If you do not get a Sect 6, your PER should not rank you outside of your MOS within your unit.


----------



## armyvern

MCG said:
			
		

> Despite the apparently large number of units or HQs that have chosen to ignore or bastardize the merit criteria guidance, I prefer our attempt at issuing a merit based medal as opposed to an all-or-none medal.  More times than not, one will be able to recognize the existence of merit behind the medal in our current approach.  In an all-or-none approach, the medal is simply meaningless everywhere.
> Skimming from the unit PER ranking was also explicitly prohibited as a selection criteria.  It potentially rewards those of lesser merit who have climbed to the top of the ranking by outlasting everyone in rank, while it also penalizes others of high merit who were recently promoted and receiving a first or second PER in rank.
> In Section 5, members are ranked within MOS (Note: Reg F & PRes are different MOS and are therefore never ranked against eachother in Sect 5).  In Section 6, members are ranked against everyone of the same rank across MOSs within the unit ... and for MWO, Capt & Maj that are signed at the Fmn level, the members should be ranked against everyone of the same rank across MOSs within the Bde/Wing/CTC.  If you do not get a Sect 6, your PER should not rank you outside of your MOS within your unit.



I'm the oldest person in this Unit.    I have to run with a bunch of 18-25 year old males.

And outlasting everyone has SFA to do with it, as I said in my original post, if your Unit does it's PERs properly IAW CFPAS directives : PERFORMANCE MERIT, not TI, not trade, not non-cbt arms vs cbt arms within etc. See my RCAF example also given below for "non merit based" determinations of rankings on PERs.

It's not an issue we have here that I have observed over my last 3 years.

Either way, our top 10 % of PERs deserved to be where they were based upon their performance:  they merited that ranking and were all deserving. They also ended up being proportionally representative of our language, gender profiles of totals.  Merit & proportional representation all in one. In a Unit this size (we are the largest 1st line Unit in Canada, and larger than a Svc Bn too), you have to start somewhere and that is exactly what we did. Oh, and this Unit doesn't do the fall to the bottom because you have less TIR than someone else either - you've only been a MCpl 10 months, but you're the best damn one in the Unit, then you rank number one. Here, we follow that performance based system (it is officially how it is supposed to be done after all).


----------



## McG

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> And outlasting everyone has SFA to do with it, as I said in my original post, if your Unit does it's PERs properly IAW CFPAS directives : PERFORMANCE MERIT, not TI, not trade, not non-cbt arms vs cbt arms within etc.


But it takes time to develop in rank and job.  A brand new MCpl who has mastered his new role within months of promotion is either being over represented in the PER, is underutilized in work not commensurate with the rank, or should have been promoted earlier.  That being said, by CFPAS, rankings should actually be derived from potential as opposed to performance.  Potential is one of those things that can start high when a member newly enters a rank, but even here it is extremely rare/unlikely to see someone start right off as Outstanding - Immediate (though a dot at Outstanding is well inside possible on a first PER in rank).  Normally, there is personal development & growth happening at each rank prior someone reaching that Outstanding level.


----------



## Tank Troll

MCG said:
			
		

> But it takes time to develop in rank and job.  A brand new MCpl who has mastered his new role within months of promotion is either being over represented in the PER, is underutilized in work not commensurate with the rank, or should have been promoted earlier.  That being said, by CFPAS, rankings should actually be derived from potential as opposed to performance.  Potential is one of those things that can start high when a member newly enters a rank, but even here it is extremely rare/unlikely to see someone start right off as Outstanding - Immediate (though a dot at Outstanding is well inside possible on a first PER in rank).  Normally, there is personal development & growth happening at each rank prior someone reaching that Outstanding level.



 What if that person has been doing the job of a Sgt as a Mcpl for a couple of years. They finally get promoted to Sgt and keep the same job use to happen often enough. That person knows what is needed to get the job done and done well, then they could get an outstanding PER on the first go. I was a Cpl for 14 years No promotion or pay raises (got love the 90s) then went from Cpl to WO in 5 and a half years. As far as Potential is concerned in 99 when signing my PER I was told I had no potential as I only had 6 years left till my 20 years was up and as a Cpl with no CLC / JNCO course I probable wouldn't get resigned, ten years after that I retired as a Sgt that was merited as immediate for promotion to WO so much for no Potential. For my work in standing up The Halifax Rifles and for my vollenteer work with minnor hockey and Cadets I was awarded the QDJM on the 3rd of October 2012.


----------



## armyvern

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> ... For my work in standing up The Halifax Rifles and for my vollenteer work with minnor hockey and Cadets I was awarded the QDJM on the 3rd of October 2012.



Congratulations!!


----------



## Tank Troll

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Congratulations!!



Thanks


----------



## ArmyRick

Tank Troll, did you do an ILP residency about a year ago? I think I may know you.


----------



## Tank Troll

March 2010


----------



## gwp

Ostrozac said:
			
		

> The Brit solution has the advantage of simplicity -- our approach did involve a considerable amount of effort, and the medals still haven't been awarded.
> 
> If the Brit benchmark of 5 years of service as of 6 Feb 2012 would result in more medals being awarded than we can afford, there is the option of increasing the years of service required until you reach the number of medals you have available to present. For example if the benchmark of 5 years of service results in too many medals being issued, and 15 years results in too few, award it to all those with 10 years of service... adjust as needed.
> 
> I prefer the British approach on this one to ours -- because I think that the Canadian honours and awards system is often needlessly complex, and when there is a choice between adding complexity and simplicity, I prefer simplicity. I'm sure that there were good reasons for our honours system to recognize 13 different campaign medals for service in the Former Yugoslavia over the last 20 years. I just would have preferred something simpler.



Seems that because the QDJM in Britian is a EBGO (Every Blokes Got One) some recipients are turning what they consider a minimal honour into big bucks. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2135558/Cash-honours-Police-Forces-heroes-sell-Diamond-Jubilee-medals-eBay--just-days-awarded-Queen.html

http://tamebay.com/2012/05/the-true-value-of-the-queens-diamond-jubilee-medal.html


----------



## Journeyman

gwp said:
			
		

> [From the link http://tamebay.com/2012/05/the-true-value-of-the-queens-diamond-jubilee-medal.html]
> 
> Selling values are currently around £100.00 for genuine Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medals, but if you’re not precious about buying an original you can also get a replica for about twenty quid on eBay.


 :rofl:  _~whew~_    I was wondering what the Frontiersmen and other Walts were going to do.


----------



## misratah500

I just hope they get this over with soon, so they can get back to issuing some campaign medals. Like say OP Mobile/Sirius and OP Caribbe that they owe me


----------



## aesop081

misratah500 said:
			
		

> I just hope they get this over with soon, so they can get back to issuing some campaign medals. Like say OP Mobile/Sirius and OP Caribbe that they owe me



The OUP medal will be presented Mid-November (original date was October 31st) and the QDJM for the RCAF should be presented before Christmas leave. ****


**** As briefed by the RCAF CWO last night.


----------



## misratah500

Serious? The navy has said nothing on this? I assume they're going to do one big presentation at MARPAC/MARLANT/ZOOMIELAND. Why is the damn navy so in the dark about this?


----------



## PuckChaser

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Serious? The navy has said nothing on this? I assume they're going to do one big presentation at MARPAC/MARLANT/ZOOMIELAND. Why is the damn navy so in the dark about this?



Too busy handing out Sea Service Insignia?


----------



## misratah500

Ha! Good one. They don't even do that anymore. You just print off a screen shot of your Sea days from monitor mass, head down to supply and a nice civie dude hands it to you. Then off to the tailors.


----------



## eliminator

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The OUP medal will be presented Mid-November (original date was October 31st) and the QDJM for the RCAF should be presented before Christmas leave. ****
> 
> 
> **** As briefed by the RCAF CWO last night.



My unit is handing out the OUP medals at the end of the month. I'm coming in on my leave to get it.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Too busy handing out Sea Service Insignia?



That and executive curls, buttons, baubles and bows it's hard for the poor fellas to keep on top of everything, don'tcha know 

Maybe they should bring on the Quartermaster from the LoF. That lot seem to get it straight when it comes to bling ;D


----------



## aesop081

eliminator said:
			
		

> My unit is handing out the OUP medals at the end of the month. I'm coming in on my leave to get it.



It was supposed to be the same for date for everyone, October 31st. The RCAF CWO briefed yesterday at the WO & Sgts mess dinner, that the OUP medals would not likely be presented on that date as the intent is to do the medals presentations on the same day, Canada-wide.

Just passing on what the man said.


----------



## eliminator

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> It was supposed to be the same for date for everyone, October 31st. The RCAF CWO briefed yesterday at the WO & Sgts mess dinner, that the OUP medals would not likely be presented on that date as the intent is to do the medals presentations on the same day, Canada-wide.
> 
> Just passing on what the man said.



Yea, 31 Oct was the date that I was given. Hopefully it doesn't change, but if they made a RCAF wide decision to push the date then I suppose I'm at the mercy of the others.

It's too bad about the Libya medal, many people are disappointed not to get a "Canadian" medal (GCS/GSM/OSM,etc) , and now the delay is issuing the medals continues. The UK only decided on 24 Sep to allow the medal to be accepted/worn, and units have already received them. 

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/RafPersonnelFirstToReceiveOperationUnifiedProtectorMedals.htm

And getting back to the original topic of this thread, it's sad how long the QDJMs are taking to get issued to units. My dad received his medal though a civi organization months ago, and the local newspapers here have several groups awarding them to locals. Yet the CF waits and waits.


----------



## jollyjacktar

My unit is making presentations on Monday.  While I am sure they are all worthy of the recognition, I am shocked and frankly disappointed to see that Snr NCO's outnumber the lower decks in awards.


----------



## dapaterson

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> My unit is making presentations on Monday.  While I am sure they are all worthy of the recognition, I am shocked and frankly disappointed to see that Snr NCO's outnumber the lower decks in awards.



That's unusual, given that the allocation was weighted towards the lower decks.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Honestly I'm not sure how many were alotted to us, there's 11 on Monday.  Perhaps there were others.  There was a pre game show some weeks past wherein the Adm gave out a bunch in a big dog and pony show.  We might have had some from here who were in that.  

Past the initial throwing names/stories into the ring for the bun toss I have tuned the whole evolution out.  The two subordinates I nominated were posted out months ago and I honestly don't know if they even survived the first few winnowings.  That whole panic stations was wayyyy back in the spring/late winter.

Can't wait to see what sort of a train wreck fiasco will come in 17 for the Canada 150 love fest.


----------



## OldSolduer

We are presenting them at the Men's Christmas Dinner.


----------



## Snakedoc

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Honestly I'm not sure how many were alotted to us, there's 11 on Monday.  Perhaps there were others.  There was a pre game show some weeks past wherein the Adm gave out a bunch in a big dog and pony show.  We might have had some from here who were in that.
> 
> Past the initial throwing names/stories into the ring for the bun toss I have tuned the whole evolution out.  The two subordinates I nominated were posted out months ago and I honestly don't know if they even survived the first few winnowings.  That whole panic stations was wayyyy back in the spring/late winter.
> 
> Can't wait to see what sort of a train wreck fiasco will come in 17 for the Canada 150 love fest.



Yeah... no nomination process that I know of at my unit, no board, and an awful lot of senior NCO's and a small number of officers with a lot of time in rank getting it.  Not that the mbrs at my unit who got it arn't necessarily deserving (ok some of them actually aren't IMO), but it's more unfortunate that IMO, many of the junior guys at the unit who've done a lot to help the unit and fit the criteria of the original msg were overlooked.  That and it doesn't appear to me and many mbrs of my unit that a due process of selection was followed IAW the msg.

But in the end, no use in rocking the boat especially with the senior leadership over this.  Its a trinket and people doing the real work for the Navy don't need a medal to prove their worth.  :-\


----------



## Tank Troll

My unit has 1 Capt 3 WO 2 Mcpl 6 Cpl/Tpr


----------



## Ostrozac

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Can't wait to see what sort of a train wreck fiasco will come in 17 for the Canada 150 love fest.



Sooner. The Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medals will be coming out in 10 years. These types of medals aren't going anywhere, so I hope we figure out a consistent method of awarding them.


----------



## MedCorps

And, although I mean no ill-wishes to Her Majesty, in the next 15 years a King Charles Coronation Medal. 

MC


----------



## eliminator

It amazing how much emotion medals can stir up, especially the commemorative variety. The QDJM saga isn't new and there's no shortage of opinions relating to the distro of the QSJM (which was basically the COs discretion?) the the QGJM (which relied on a time in rank excel spreadsheet algorithm?) to the QDJM now (which relied upon the CoC identifying and supporting a particular number of applications at each rank level.) ....and then there's the Centennial and 125 medals, Sask and Alberta 100 anniversary of confederation medals that have similar distro.

No matter how they decide to award these medals, there will always be haters. Even the "super generous 5-year UK prerequisite" has it flaws.

I actually agreed with how the QDJM were distributed within the CF, as long as units follow the guidelines. At my unit, I totally agree with 9/10ths of the nominees as these people truly are top performers, involved in other stuff on the base and don't shy away from challenges. But people will be overlooked, especially if they were away on tour and out of the limelight of their home unit. 

For something we wear just a handful of times per year, it certainly gets peoples' pulse racing. Distribution of medals is never going to appease everyone. From the guy who does the 30-day inside the wire TAV to KAF to the combat arms soldier that does 6month on patrol just to end up with the same medal, to the sentiments relating to the C.D., to bravery/valour decorations, the system isnt perfect, but the Canadian honour system is one of the better ones out there.


----------



## Halifax Tar

eliminator said:
			
		

> It amazing how much emotion medals can stir up, especially the commemorative variety. The QDJM saga isn't new and there's no shortage of opinions relating to the distro of the QSJM (which was basically the COs discretion?) the the QGJM (which relied on a time in rank excel spreadsheet algorithm?) to the QDJM now (which relied upon the CoC identifying and supporting a particular number of applications at each rank level.) ....and then there's the Centennial and 125 medals, Sask and Alberta 100 anniversary of confederation medals that have similar distro.
> 
> No matter how they decide to award these medals, there will always be haters. Even the "super generous 5-year UK prerequisite" has it flaws.
> 
> I actually agreed with how the QDJM were distributed within the CF, as long as units follow the guidelines. At my unit, I totally agree with 9/10ths of the nominees as these people truly are top performers, involved in other stuff on the base and don't shy away from challenges. But people will be overlooked, especially if they were away on tour and out of the limelight of their home unit.
> 
> For something we wear just a handful of times per year, it certainly gets peoples' pulse racing. Distribution of medals is never going to appease everyone. From the guy who does the 30-day inside the wire TAV to KAF to the combat arms soldier that does 6month on patrol just to end up with the same medal, to the sentiments relating to the C.D., to bravery/valour decorations, the system isnt perfect, but the Canadian honour system is one of the better ones out there.




Great post!  If I knew how to send milpoints 300 would be inbound to you!


----------



## cupper

MedCorps said:
			
		

> And, although I mean no ill-wishes to Her Majesty, in the next 15 years a King Charles Coronation Medal.
> 
> MC



But it will be a cost issue, since those of you still in the service (except the navy) will have to change out cap badges which have the "Queen's Crown".


----------



## aesop081

cupper said:
			
		

> will have to change out cap badges which have the "Queen's Crown".



There is no "Queen's crown" that will need to be replaced. The crown on our ranks and badges is the St-Edward's crown and is the same regardless of the Gender of the monarch. It is the crown used for coronation and is never altered.

The British army ranks and badges use, IIRC, the Queen victoria version of the imperial state crown (this is the "working" crown. Queen Victoria did not like the imperial state crown as it was too heavy and she commissioned her own in 1870). It is rebuilt for each successive monarch.  

The whole "King vs Queen crown" argument is a fallacy.


----------



## PuckChaser

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> Great post!  If I knew how to send milpoints 300 would be inbound to you!



Click "Rate Post" under their name on the left side.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> There is no "Queen's crown" that will need to be replaced. The crown on our ranks and badges is the St-Edward's crown and is the same regardless of the Gender of the monarch. It is the crown used for coronation and is never altered.
> 
> The British army ranks and badges use, IIRC, the Queen victoria version of the imperial state crown (this is the "working" crown. Queen Victoria did not like the imperial state crown as it was too heavy and she commissioned her own in 1870). It is rebuilt for each successive monarch.
> 
> The whole "King vs Queen crown" argument is a fallacy.



The things I learn on Army.ca... thanks!


----------



## Tank Troll

Introduction of St. Edwards Crown
Replacement of the Tudor Crown.
At the beginning of each reign a new Royal Cypher is designed. The Tudor Crown was first used with the Royal Cypher of King Edward VII, and also became the standard pattern representational crown wherever a Royal Crown was required. The same Tudor Crown surmounted the Royal Cyphers of Kings George V, Edward VIII, and George VI, and there was no reason why it should not have been used in 1952. Indeed, some copies were made with EiiR surmounted by a Tudor Crown. However Sir George Bellew, Garter King of Arms, persuaded the Royal Mint Advisory Committee, and the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals, that it would be more appropriate if the crown surmounting the Royal Cypher was a representation of the actual Crown of England, rather than a representation of a crown that did not actually exist. It was his intention that the St Edward's Crown should be used only with the Royal Cypher, and that all other representations of the crown should continue to be the Tudor Crown. However after the Report (HD 4946) of the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals had been seen by the Queen, it was announced that : 

"The Queen wishes the St Edward's Crown to take the place of the Tudor Crown in all future designs embodying a representation of the crown".

[National Archives (PRO) ADM 1/27316, CAB 21/3726, PREM 11/39, MINT 25/3, WO 32/9028] 



The next Monarch could how ever chose the Tudor crown.


----------



## Jarnhamar

eliminator said:
			
		

> I actually agreed with how the QDJM were distributed within the CF



Based solely on merit and merit alone- but taking into consideration gender rank race and language?


----------



## George Wallace

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Based solely on merit and merit alone- but taking into consideration gender rank race and language?



 :brickwall:




                                                                                 :stars:


----------



## aesop081

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> The next Monarch could how ever chose the Tudor crown.



That may be but it still does not require we change anything. The St-Edward's crown is *the* crown, regardless of who the monarch is. If we change which crown we use, it will out of choice to do so, not any "Queen's/King's crown" rubbish.


----------



## Tank Troll

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> That may be but it still does not require we change anything. The St-Edward's crown is *the* crown, regardless of who the monarch is. If we change which crown we use, it will out of choice to do so, not any "Queen's/King's crown" rubbish.




Unless which ever heir comes in to power and says '' I wish the Tudor Crown to take the place of the St Edward's Crown in all future designs embodying a representation of the crown"


----------



## Snakedoc

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> Unless which ever heir comes in to power and says '' I wish the Tudor Crown to take the place of the St Edward's Crown in all future designs embodying a representation of the crown"



Seeing as how saying this would affect many commonwealth countries and also involve a significant cost to all the taxpayers in the countries involved, I don't think it would be as simple as just saying it and therefore, not likely to happen without significant consultation and agreement from everyone (which is unlikely to happen).


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Are you saying you would disobey an order from your monarch?!?!?

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

It's too early to tell if it really has legs, but there's scuttlebutt about issuing a bar for people in the military that were presented it on merit.

Vice those like Mr Staples who it was rumoured didn't really want it, at first, because it was too military, or some such, but took it anyway.

Apparently, the generic single maple leaf bar will denote it as a military medal and not one for being at Dwight Duncan's barbecue.  :facepalm:


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Sold!! Where do I put in for the bar?


----------



## Edward Campbell

I believe Australia and New Zealand avoided all the things that cause 15 pages of angst for us by simply declining to award QDJMs; smart folks, those antipodeans.


----------



## Privateer

It's an exclusive club...



> MP defends giving Queen's Jubilee medal to jailed woman
> Anti-abortionists honoured by Conservative MP





> ...
> Vellacott continued, "It's a pretty upside down world when we honour abortionists like Henry Morgentaler for killing over 5,000 babies and imprison precious women, like Mary Wagner and Linda Gibbons, who try to save babies from such savagery. They are the real heroes of humanity!"
> 
> Wagner is being held at the prison for women at Milton, Ont. and is awaiting trial for violating the terms of her probation. She was arrested in August for entering an abortion clinic in Toronto, after being arrested last November for entering another Toronto clinic where she had been arrested twice before.
> 
> Gibbons has been arrested repeatedly for violating injunctions in front of clinics, and refuses to sign bail orders that would require her to agree to an injunction.
> ...



link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/10/23/pol-anti-abortionists-queens-diamond-jubilee-medals.html


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Wait a sec, I can't get the medal cause I got in trouble.. but someone in prison can?


----------



## The Bread Guy

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Wait a sec, I can't get the medal cause I got in trouble.. but someone in prison can?


I guess it all depends on the kinda trouble you get into, and whether an MP agrees with/condones the trouble you're in, or classifies it as, in the words of the GG's official criteria ..... 





> Hav(ing) made a significant contribution to a particular province, territory, region or community within Canada, or an achievement abroad that brings credit to Canada


 :facepalm:


----------



## Infanteer

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I believe Australia and New Zealand avoided all the things that cause 15 pages of angst for us by simply declining to award QDJMs; smart folks, those antipodeans.



 :nod:


----------



## dimsum

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I believe Australia and New Zealand avoided all the things that cause 15 pages of angst for us by simply declining to award QDJMs; smart folks, those antipodeans.



While the ADF does some seemingly ridiculous things (like having a pin on the DEUs to recognize being fit for deployment, instead of it just being "understood"), not awarding QDJMs is a good idea.


----------



## Ostrozac

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I guess it all depends on the kinda trouble you get into, and whether an MP agrees with/condones the trouble you're in, or classifies it as, in the words of the GG's official criteria .....  :facepalm:



I do find it constitutionally interesting that one representative of Her Majesty can find someone worthy of imprisonment, and another representative of Her Majesty can find the same person worthy of the award of a medal. Kind of reminds me a little of the time in the late 40's when two constitutional monarchies (India and Pakistan) fought a fierce war against each other, despite King George VI being the Head of State of both nations.


----------



## McG

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Wait a sec, I can't get the medal cause I got in trouble.. but someone in prison can?


Makes the idea of a Canadian Forces bar on the medal all the more appealing, doesn't it?  It would be more clear what came from our merit based selection process as opposed to …


----------



## Journeyman

....which would lead to a whole debate on "merit." 

I'm sure there're people out there who believe that imprisoned anti-abortionists are just as meritorious as a self-promoting, anti-military sound-byte hound -- both of which are 'superior' to _mere_ military people who've served their country, their communities, deployed in the name of Canadian honour, prestige, and international worth.....you know, _that_ stuff.

      :


----------



## Occam

Yesterday, I fired off a strongly-worded e-mail to Maurice Vellacott (and his boss) on the subject of this medal being awarded to Wagner and Gibbons.  What I got back from Vellacott's Parliamentary e-mail account was a diatribe, written in the third person, from the pro-life movement.  

Deja vu all over again.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Occam said:
			
		

> Yesterday, I fired off a strongly-worded e-mail to Maurice Vellacott (and his boss) on the subject of this medal being awarded to Wagner and Gibbons.  What I got back from Vellacott's Parliamentary e-mail account was a diatribe, written in the third person, from the pro-life movement.
> 
> Deja vu all over again.



At least the reply didn't come from the persona of an unborn baby, kinda like the creepy books from fightclub spoken from the persons organs.


----------



## Davionn

I like the idea of a bar on the QDJM for military issue.  I see a problem with this though:

Let's take the no bar scenario:  Cpl Bloggins is awarded a QDJM from his local MP for his stellar work in the community (whatever it might be).  Let's say his CoC wants to award him one for being  the best Cpl ever!  Way above his peers, he would rightly deserve it.  He then mentions that he's already received one, and maybe the CoC says "OK, we'll just award it to the next deserving individual"

Now lets look at the bar scenario:  Cpl Bloggins is awarded a QDJM from his local MP for his stellar work in the community (whatever it might entail).  Let's say his CoC wants to award him one for being  the best Cpl ever!  Way above his peers, he would rightly deserve it.  Does he accept (knowing that his peers will view the bar in a better light than without)?  Can he wear both, as now there are essentially two levels of QDJM?  If he wears only one, can he give back the "lesser" award he's already accepted, to be awarded to someone else?  Is that even possible?


Thoughts?


----------



## Infanteer

Well, I stop moving to the right once I hit the NATO medals, so a bar isn't going to do much.


----------



## DirtyDog

Seems the CF came across another 5000 QDJMs and are looking for nominations (again).


----------



## jollyjacktar

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Seems the CF came across another 5000 QDJMs and are looking for nominations (again).


Oh, joy...


----------



## Journeyman

Wonderful. 

So now, we can debate a bar for military QDJM, bar and shield for making the first round (now that we're into tier 2 nominations)....bar, shield, and oakleaf cluster for civ/mil recipients....

It was difficult enough the first time, finding a WO who was 20% female.



If only there were _some_ way to make this more complicated......if only....    :brickwall:


----------



## The Bread Guy

Journeyman said:
			
		

> If only there were _some_ way to make this more complicated......if only....    :brickwall:


Be careful what you wish for, even in jest ....


----------



## dapaterson

Journeyman said:
			
		

> If only there were _some_ way to make this more complicated......if only....    :brickwall:



Well, there will no doubt be a "Canada 150" medal in 2017, so I'm certain lessons learned here will be applied to that one.


----------



## kratz

Advances in DNA sequencing should be far enough advanced to produce that 20% female WO by 2017.


----------



## jollyjacktar

kratz said:
			
		

> Advances in DNA sequencing should be far enough advanced to produce that 20% female WO by 2017.


Well I have known some that could scream like a little girl.   >

The expressions of rapture I viewed on the faces of the other PO's at the news of more medals being found.  It was being like a fox in a hen house, sheer bliss.   :nod:  Sigh, my day is complete.


----------



## OldSolduer

So we nominated twenty - we have a unit of near 280 on paper. 

We got SEVEN - now Bde and Area want more nominations.  :facepalm:

Who led this clusterf**k?

We followed the rules. All our nominations were IAW the directions.


----------



## Hotwire

All I can say is that at my unit, out of the 15 that got the medal, 10 were pers who don't show up, who don't do their job, and don't have a medal yet. This is a reserve unit, The Old Boys Club has shown its colors again. So.. The Sgt's and O's who don't look so flashy on parade, now have a medal pinned to their chest to try and make them look better. But Its just a laughing point.

There were members who got it, and deserved it. I Congratulate you all, and I'm sorry that you get bundled in with the inept of the unit.

The opinion at my unit is... Its a joke medal. Way to go for ruining a moment for those who did deserve it.

sorry for the spelling  :


----------



## Edward Campbell

Well, here is the new low standard for the QDJM: two radio _journalists_ (Lowell Green and Steve Madely, talk show hosts on Ottawa radio station CRA) get the medal from Conservative M.P. and Minister Gordon O'Connor and Canadian Senator Colin Kenny. In my opinion a real journalist, even one who has never read his craft guild's ethical guidelines, would *never* accept a medal from a politician's allotment; in fairness, Mr Madely's medal was awarded for his work with the Ottawa Hospital's _Suicide Prevention Network_.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

I am not sure if those class lower than the (at least one ) persons in prison getting it...


----------



## Danjanou

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I am not sure if those class lower than the (at least one ) persons in prison getting it...



So Omar did get one. Now I know where my NDP MP's allotment went.  8)


----------



## DirtyDog

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Well, here is the new low standard for the QDJM: two radio _journalists_ (Lowell Green and Steve Madely, talk show hosts on Ottawa radio station CRA) get the medal from Conservative M.P. and Minister Gordon O'Connor and Canadian Senator Colin Kenny. In my opinion a real journalist, even one who has never read his craft guild's ethical guidelines, would *never* accept a medal from a politician's allotment; in fairness, Mr Madely's medal was awarded for his work with the Ottawa Hospital's _Suicide Prevention Network_.


I hardly think those two qualify as the "new low" by any stretch of the imagination.  They both have been very active in the Ottawa community for years and I think are deserving.  Should everyone with any sort of political or media ties of any sort reject the medal, which in most cases is in recognition of "community service" from some kind of percieved ethical standpoint?


----------



## DirtyDog

Hotwire said:
			
		

> All I can say is that at my unit, out of the 15 that got the medal, 10 were pers who don't show up, who don't do their job, and don't have a medal yet. This is a reserve unit, The Old Boys Club has shown its colors again. So.. The Sgt's and O's who don't look so flashy on parade, now have a medal pinned to their chest to try and make them look better. But Its just a laughing point.
> 
> There were members who got it, and deserved it. I Congratulate you all, and I'm sorry that you get bundled in with the inept of the unit.
> 
> The opinion at my unit is... Its a joke medal. Way to go for ruining a moment for those who did deserve it.
> 
> sorry for the spelling  :


 I had the news broken to me that my "(former) unit bladed me" and a QJDM had showed up in the mail with my name on it.  Take it or leave it, but that is pretty much how the medal is perceived by many members.

When word got around of  the new nominations a lot of people said "PLEASE, don't let me be nominated" while a small number secretely rubbed their greedy palms in glee.


----------



## Shamrock

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> I had the news broken to me that my "(former) unit bladed me" and a QJDM had showed up in the mail with my name on it.  Take it or leave it, but that is pretty much how the medal is perceived by many members.
> 
> When word got around of  the new nominations a lot of people said "PLEASE, don't let me be nominated" while a small number secretely rubbed their greedy palms in glee.



Interesting. While we had no members who had fallen from grace per the deselection instruction, we did have several posted in or out. Just a simple case of sending the medal to the gaining unit. I'd question the veracity of your source.


----------



## Tank Troll

From my unit there was One Capt who has a tour does a ton of charity work and did a really good job in a hard situation as AO for a family that had a son killed in Afghanistan. Three WO (all of which explicitly told the chain of command not to nominate them) all have multiple tours and volunteer their time for numerous things. 2 Mcpls 3 Cpl 1 Trp all of which do a lot of volunteer work in their local comunity.


----------



## Jarnhamar

For all it's faults I still like the spirit of this medal (at least in so far as it pertains to the CF)
The ability for the chain of command to recognize deserving individuals. If done right even nominating someone for this medal should be an accolade.

The politics of awarding this medal to civilians associated with questionable backgrounds (in prison, anti abortion, anti freedom loving) really detracts from it in my opinion.


----------



## Journeyman

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> For all it's faults I still like the spirit of this medal (at least in so far as it pertains to the CF)


I agree. While I still believe it to be unnecessary bling, the CF _tried_* to implement its issuance in a much better way than previous Jubilee medals.


* But even in stating it be merit-based, they demeaned it by insisting on quotas.  :


----------



## Danjanou

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Well, there will no doubt be a "Canada 150" medal in 2017, so I'm certain lessons learned here will be applied to that one.



Funny never pictured you as that much of a naive optomist. 8)


----------



## Edward Campbell

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I agree. While I still believe it to be unnecessary bling, the CF _tried_* to implement its issuance in a much better way than previous Jubilee medals.
> 
> 
> * But even in stating it be merit-based, they demeaned it by insisting on quotas.  :




And, yet again, see management vs. leading/commanding/etc. The CF leaders knew what to do - the right thing, but the DND managers didn't know how to do the right thing in the right way, they felt a compulsion to "situate the appreciation."


----------



## dapaterson

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> And, yet again, see management vs. leading/commanding/etc. The CF leaders knew what to do - the right thing, but the DND managers didn't know how to do the right thing in the right way, they felt a compulsion to "situate the appreciation."



Honours and Awards are dominated by uniformed personnel (or retired uniformed personnel who, at times, forget they are no longer in uniform).  Thus, the failing is of _*CF * _ managers, not _*DND*_ managers.


----------



## Rifleman62

Hotwire: 





> All I can say is that at my unit, out of the 15 that got the medal. .........This is a Reserve unit.



I find it hard to believe that fifteen were allocated to a Reserve unit under any circumstance. Basing this on being around the Reserves from 1962 to 2007 and seen the allocation of all the other medals.


----------



## Edward Campbell

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Honours and Awards are dominated by uniformed personnel (or retired uniformed personnel who, at times, forget they are no longer in uniform).  Thus, the failing is of _*CF * _ managers, not _*DND*_ managers.




Except that the _social engineering_ mentality that makes quotas seem appropriate infests DND and, indeed, all of government. My guess is that ADM (Public Affairs) had quiet words with the VCDS, or whoever, at the start of the process, ensuring that the *party line* was understood.


----------



## Remius

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Hotwire:
> I find it hard to believe that fifteen were allocated to a Reserve unit under any circumstance. Basing this on being around the Reserves from 1962 to 2007 and seen the allocation of all the other medals.



We had about twelve.  But many more received it from other scources, Brigade, Class B employers , civy side.  easily 20 people from my unit have received it.  Just not all from our allocation.  Most if not all were well deserving members.


----------



## dapaterson

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Except that the _social engineering_ mentality that makes quotas seem appropriate infests DND and, indeed, all of government. My guess is that ADM (Public Affairs) had quiet words with the VCDS, or whoever, at the start of the process, ensuring that the *party line* was understood.



I think we're arguing at cross-purposes.  I do not deny the agendas/mentality of some within DND and the larger public service; but even if the VCDS or others were advised in advance, it was ultimately "leaders" of the CF who issued those orders - those leaders/managers/whatever we wish to call them are fro mthe CF, and must be held accountable and responsible for the orders they issued - to excuse a 3* because an AS-3 somewhere wrote a briefing note is absurd.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I think we're arguing at cross-purposes.  I do not deny the agendas/mentality of some within DND and the larger public service; but even if the VCDS or others were advised in advance, it was ultimately "leaders" of the CF who issued those orders - those leaders/managers/whatever we wish to call them are fro mthe CF, and must be held accountable and responsible for the orders they issued - to excuse a 3* because an AS-3 somewhere wrote a briefing note is absurd.



 :rofl:


----------



## DirtyDog

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Interesting. While we had no members who had fallen from grace per the deselection instruction, we did have several posted in or out. Just a simple case of sending the medal to the gaining unit. I'd question the veracity of your source.


The medal was sent to my new unit.  It followed me here.  The use of the term "blading" was meant to infer they did me a disservice by nominating me and that I wasn't able to escape being awarded it by being posted.

Hence why i said that there are a fair number of people who regard this medal with a certain amount of contempt.


----------



## Shamrock

Oh, ok.  Now I see what you meant.

I don't necessarily agree that it's a dishonour, but I at least understand what you meant.


----------



## dapaterson

Two more recipients:

The Parliamentary Budget Officer, presented by Senator Colin Kenny: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Budget+watchdog+turns+federal+court+gambit+data+spending/7591099/story.html

The MND's wife, presented by Senator Rod Zimmer: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Nazanin+Afshin+honoured+with+Diamond+Jubilee+Award/7591419/story.html


----------



## DirtyDog

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Oh, ok.  Now I see what you meant.
> 
> I don't necessarily agree that it's a dishonour, but I at least understand what you meant.


I should've adde there was a certain degree of jest with the comment.

Not a dishonour but some see it as just well, lame, I guess?


----------



## Shamrock

You served with distinction and were recognized for it.  Sure, some recipients received it for being a General's coffee boy, but that doesn't cheapen your being awarded it.

Same as the CD.  Some see it as an attendance award, but really, it's 12 years of service in a nation where few are willing to serve.


----------



## OldSolduer

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Same as the CD.  Some see it as an attendance award, but really, it's 12 years of service in a nation where few are willing to serve.



Well said and a good point.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Like DD, I too just found out I'll be receiving one in a week or two, and honestly don't know what I think of it. Is it a crackerjack box medal? To some yes, particularly when you see the distribution among senior leadership. But knowing who nominated me, and why, at least helps me feel a faint twinge of pride about it. 

At least mine, once mounted, will be 'bookended' by 2 war medals, so I can't complain.


----------



## PPCLI Guy

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Like DD, I too just found out I'll be receiving one in a week or two, and honestly don't know what I think of it. Is it a crackerjack box medal? To some yes, particularly when you see the distribution among senior leadership. But knowing who nominated me, and why, at least helps me feel a faint twinge of pride about it.
> 
> At least mine, once mounted, will be 'bookended' by 2 war medals, so I can't complain.



I bet that there are a bunch of "senior leadership" who are saying exactly the same thing.....


----------



## George Wallace

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> .................... and honestly don't know what I think of it. Is it a crackerjack box medal? To some yes, particularly when you see the distribution among senior leadership. But knowing who nominated me, and why, at least helps me feel a faint twinge of pride about it.



It only joins a slew of others that many have expressed the same sentiments.  The 125 medal, The Queen's Golden Jubilee medal, etc.  It isn't the first, nor will it be the last, that will be presented according to what some will call "questionable criteria" or "on the cheap".


----------



## Good2Golf

It is unfortunate that the manner in which selection was effected in some cases (vice as directed), as well as the overall issue of restricted distribution amongst the Nation's armed forces personnel, has detracted from the acknowledgement of merit is indeed unfortunate.  I most certainly wish there was a larger allocation, but those at my unit who will be awarded the medal represent well the spirit under which the commemoration is intended.

I have no doubt that in five years time, we will see many of the same frustrations with the Canada 150 medal.

Regards
G2G


----------



## Takeniteasy

Hi Good2Golf, you should say "in five "minutes" time, ain't that a man, we will see the same frustrations." The honourable words of Muddy Waters.

Same old same old in the never ending debate on who deserves what, I can only say that for every "1" acknowledged there goes "100" in the wind. 

Why debate just enjoy and remember to lean a little to the right!

On the side lines
op:


----------



## Edward Campbell

Prime Minister Harper said he was happy to present a QDJM to a noted Canadian artist ...


----------



## Strike

WTF is he wearing?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

I believe Mr. Harper is wearing suit....


----------



## Edward Campbell

Strike said:
			
		

> WTF is he wearing?




Prime Minister Harper? A sort of standard grey business suit ...

The other guy?

I looked at that picture once, only once, to make sure it was what I thought it was ... I refuse to look again, ever.  My eyes ...


----------



## Tank Troll

Perfect!!! :facepalm: One more reason not to wear it or get it mounted. Why did I bother to get my DEUs dry cleaned and polish my boots when this little Douche shows up dressed like that!! Oh right I'm a professional while he is an ''Artist''


----------



## cupper

Strike said:
			
		

> WTF is he wearing?



Someone needs to slap the kid upside his head until the face and hat brim are aligned.

And he wonders why the haters be hatin'


----------



## brihard

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Prime Minister Harper said he was happy to present a QDJM to a noted Canadian artist ...



What the fuck?


----------



## Ciskman

Brihard said:
			
		

> What the frig?



Wow...


----------



## Ciskman

HappyWithYourHacky said:
			
		

> Wow...



We just had a few Sar Techs awarded the Jubilee for their actions on some pretty intense missions. It blows my mind to see them on the same page as Justin Bieber. :facepalm:


----------



## 211RadOp

What has he done for Canada?  And his attire is completely wrong for the occasion.  Picture at link.

From CBC.ca

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/11/harper-presents-justin-bieber-with-diamond-jubilee-medal-1.html



> *Harper presents Justin Bieber with Diamond Jubilee Medal
> 
> by Lauren O'NeilPosted: November 23, 2012 8:25 PMLast Updated: November 23, 2012 8:46 PM*
> 
> Stephen Harper is the envy of Justin Bieber fans around the world right now and may in fact be a belieber himself according to his Twitter feed.
> 
> The Canadian Prime Minister met with Bieber in Ottawa Friday to present the 18-year-old pop star with a Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal.
> 
> Bieber, a Stratford, Ont. native, is one of 60 000 Canadians to recieve the Diamond Jubilee medal this year.
> 
> The commemorative award was created to mark the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's ascent to the throne and honours "significant contributions and achievements by Canadians."
> 
> While few could deny that Bieber has made an impact on Canadian culture, many were unhappy with the outfit he chose to accept the honour.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Pop singers are like porn stars.  They're told what to wear, what to say, how to act, how to dress.  They sell an image. 
The video's for cher lloyd 'want u back' are a great example. One is the Brit release the other is the US, same song but a different target audience.

Another example is Avril Lavinie.  I've spoken with a few people who went to school with her/know her and they all say the same thing - her look and style is fake and wasn't who she was growing up.

I don't think the kid is loosing much sleep over what he wore.


----------



## MusclesGlasses

Ahhh, so that's why the PM couldn't attend the premiers meeting.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

211RadOp said:
			
		

> What has he done for Canada?  And his attire is completely wrong for the occasion.  Picture at link.
> 
> From CBC.ca
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/11/harper-presents-justin-bieber-with-diamond-jubilee-medal-1.html



I googled this earlier today, he was presented the gong at Scotia bank place, right before he went onstage,hence the deplorable outfit. Not defending the dink, just passing on what I read.

Nor am I justifying him getting it in the first place, but at least he is not in prison


----------



## cupper

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> but at least he is not in prison



Should be put in front of the World Court for his crimes against humanity,


----------



## my72jeep

cupper said:
			
		

> Should be put in front of the World Court for his crimes against humanity,


 :ditto: :ditto: :goodpost:


----------



## Strike

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I googled this earlier today, he was presented the gong at Scotia bank place, right before he went onstage,hence the deplorable outfit. Not defending the dink, just passing on what I read.
> 
> Nor am I justifying him getting it in the first place, but at least he is not in prison



Actually, there were several hours between the time he was presented the medal and when he went on to perform.


----------



## honestyrules

Bieber? Really?

OUCH...


----------



## Remius

delavan said:
			
		

> Bieber? Really?
> 
> OUCH...



Yeah.  Really.  I think we need to get over this.  I'm no fan of his (I couldn't even name one song of his) but he's arguably one of the biggest stars in the world.  And he's what?  18?  A quick google search shows that he's quite involved with a lot of charities or at least he lends his names to them.  How much of this hate on is because he's Justin Bieber?  who cares. The PM gives him medal because of his achievements.  Good for him.  The CF got the lion's share of these medals and set up its own rules to hand them out.  If you are angry at the way the CF handled it fine.  Other organisations got their share and are handing them out differently.  I'm pretty sure that Bieber didn't get one of the medals given to the CF allotment.

It's a medal for all Canadians, not just soldiers.  I think it's cool that while yeah, people like Bieber can get one but also the little old lady who volunteers her time making sweaters for seniors can get one too.

This is a commemorative medal not the freaking VC.


----------



## kratz

Crantor said:
			
		

> *<snip>*This is a commemorative medal not the freaking VC.



Though those same individuals criticizing these medals being awarded by other organizations do have valid concerns due to the CF's standard of nearly demanding a VC level of service to be awarded a QDJ medal, compared to an 18 year old singer or people who have been imprisoned. While well deserving CF members are denied for almost no service or having been punished. The complaints are justified, even if there is nothing we can do about it.


----------



## Strike

Crantor, I'm not arguing about the Biebs getting the medal, just about his choice of attire for the event, especially since he is idolized and imitated by so many young people.


----------



## mariomike

Strike said:
			
		

> Crantor, I'm not arguing about the Biebs getting the medal, just about his choice of attire for the event, especially since he is idolized and imitated by so many young people.



He wore a jacket and tie for the President:
http://ronehothiphopdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/president-barack-obama-justin-bieber-2011-getty-larry-busacca.jpg


----------



## PuckChaser

mariomike said:
			
		

> He wore a jacket and tie for the President:
> http://ronehothiphopdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/president-barack-obama-justin-bieber-2011-getty-larry-busacca.jpg



That looks like a formal dinner or event, everyone at that place is dressed up. He should have dressed up but that's comparing apples to oranges. He wouldn't get in the door to the President's formal dinner thing without a suit.


----------



## kratz

In days gone by, he would not have been admitted to his own awards ceremony either.

Standards are slipping in favour of photo ops and pandering to the masses.

Why is a formal dinner more deserving time to look good for a presentation vice 
an awards ceremony?

How often in the Recuriting threads are we reading people looking for direction on what to wear
during swearing in ceremonies? Well if Justin can do it...so can we. Then those standards filter into
being allowed at BMQ and finally into normal CF routine and even mess dinners, as it becomes more accepted.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

From the PM's Facebook page.  

"In fairness to Justin Bieber, I told him I would be wearing my overalls too."


I foresee this being on Rick Mercer and 22 Minutes this week.   ;D


----------



## Rifleman62

It could have been Celine Dion, after all her music has assisted interrogators. Image being put in a windowless room with her music piped in.


----------



## cupper

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> It could have been Celine Dion, after all her music has assisted interrogators. Image being put in a windowless room with her music piped in.



Would have stirred up all of the Quebec Nationalists, seeing their heroine receiving an award honouring an English Queen. >


----------



## Remius

Nah, they hate her since she betrayed them.


----------



## the 48th regulator

PM Trudeau had Lennon and Yoko;








PM Martin Had Bono;






PM Harper has Bieber?






Ever since this pic, this PM just weirded me out; 






Now he totally Creeps me completly......


----------



## cupper

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Now he totally Creeps me completly......



It's the little known 4th Amigo!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I don't know if there is enough mental-bleach to fix what now cannot be unseen... ullhair:


----------



## psionic0

My  :2c: Yes I can disagree with the whole Justin Bieber thing. (Lord knows I have/want too) He's an 18 kid that got too much too soon. Regardless; The volunteer work he has done has been noticed. 
It would have been more appropriate for him to wear a suit or something comparable. If the rest of our CF and general population take this as something to be proud of, shouldn't he do the same? 
Lord knows my Catholic mother would have never allowed this!
I can feel the slap coming already...


----------



## Kat Stevens

It's already been forgotten and tossed in his tour buses equivalent of the kitchen junk drawer.


----------



## OldSolduer

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> It's already been forgotten and tossed in his tour buses equivalent of the kitchen junk drawer.


Or on Selena's chest.


----------



## mariomike

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Prime Minister Harper said he was happy to present a QDJM to a noted Canadian artist ...



A close-up photo:
https://twitter.com/stephenlautens/status/272468019492581376/photo/1


----------



## Edward Campbell

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Or on Selena's chest.




I think Miss Gomez is maturing faster than young Mr. B; the unavoidable gossip is that she dumped the little beggar, presumable in order to hook up with a man.







  She's a bit young ...

... but worthy of me, I think.


----------



## GAP

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Or on Selena's chest.



sigh......


----------



## kratz

It took barley a day before a protest group (page ??) was put up on facebook.

If Bieber gets a Diamond Jubilee medal then EVERY CF member should get one.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

What about those of us that don't actually _want_ one?


----------



## Retired AF Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I think Miss Gomez is maturing faster than young Mr. B; the unavoidable gossip is that she dumped the little beggar, presumable in order to hook up with a man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's a bit young ...
> 
> ... but worthy of me, I think.



Apparently the two of them are back together after Mr B. begged her to get back together. Ahh true love.  :'(


----------



## Spanky

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> It's already been forgotten and tossed in his tour buses equivalent of the kitchen junk drawer.


I'm sure he'll haul it out and put it in for his Order of Canada presentation down the road.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Looking at the photo in the story of what he wore at the AMA's it's apparent he has no style or class whatsoever.   :not-again:



> Would a suit hurt, Justin? Bieber branded 'white trash prince' after wearing overalls and baseball cap to accept prestigious award from Canadian Prime Minster
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238267/Justin-Bieber-dons-unbuttoned-overalls-backwards-hat-accept-award-Canadian-prime-minister.html#ixzz2DHCXYoTE


----------



## cupper

At least no one took a shot about his meeting the 20% female qualification. ;D


----------



## krustyrl

...... yet.!


----------



## c.jacob

cupper said:
			
		

> At least no one took a shot about his meeting the 20% female qualification. ;D



So we have discovered the rationale.  :


----------



## Towards_the_gap

I'll admit, the whole Bieber thing made me think long and hard about either playing the game and mounting it/wearing it, or popping it in an envelope for Rideau Hall with a note saying 'thanks, but no thanks' and weathering the ensuing sh!tstorm from higher for the final few months I'm in.

But then I watched the Barrie CTV news last night and saw something that made me think. It was a piece about the kick off of the MADD holiday Anti-DUI campaign, and it featured a young girl, an amputee, who spoke as a survivor of a DUI-caused accident. There, pinned on her chest and worn with obvious pride, was a QDJM.

Now debating or not whether she deserved it is fine, but if that young girl were to read this thread, would she not think a little differently about it, considering how much it is viewed in contempt by alot of people? *EDIT TO ADD* And would those same detractors of the medal be so quick to dismiss it as a chocolate gong having seen her?

Did the CF ****-up the whole plan of it being a meritorious decoration/award, with the quota system imposed from the outset? Certainly. Are some people getting it for all the wrong reasons? Yes indeed. Are the rest getting them for the right reasons, and in the spirit of how it was intended to be awarded? I think so.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Now debating or not whether she deserved it is fine, but if that young girl were to read this thread, would she not think a little differently about it, considering how much it is viewed in contempt by alot of people?


Checkmate.


----------



## Edward Campbell

We have been giving out "commemorative" medals for a long time ... I well recall the _Centennial Medal_ and _Canada 125_ and sundry jubillee medals.






We have, in my opinion, always done it wrong; but my opinion is worth precisely what you are paying for it.

The fact is that _someone_ has seen fit to "award" one of these to you ... or not. It should be clear to those who have read this thread that:

1. The CF leadership wants this medal to reward _meritorious_ service which, for whatever reasons, does not reach the standards of e.g. the MSC; and

2. Different _standards_ are being applied, as they always were in the past, to the military and civil and awards and, within the civil list, MPs and Senators were subject to very few rules or even guidelines; but

3. Broadly and generally, with a few notable exceptions, *service* to a cause, to a community, to the country, even to humanity at large, is being recognized.

Based on that, *no-one should be anything except proud to wear this*. The fact that I (and maybe others) don't much care for Justin Bieber is worth exactly the same as my opinion on various issues: nothing, at all. For all I know he is a nice young man who cares about his community and supports good causes and, and, and ... it doesn't really matter what I think about his sartorial choices, either.

We are, I suspect, going to see more, not less _bling_ over the coming years; unless the government decides to give one e.g. _Canada 150_ medal to every lawfully serving member of the CF,* there will be debates about how they are "awarded." If you get one then I hope you will wear it with some pride in what in represents and in the fact that you CoC thought you worthy to carry it; if you don't get one I hope you will shrug and thank your luck stars you don't need to pay to get your medals remounted.


_____
* Or one to each serving (regular and reserve) GOFO and CWO/MWO ~ which means the medals will _disappear_ from everyday wear sooner


----------



## Tank Troll

TTG very well presented, Mr Campbell always intrested in your words and thoughts as both are sagely. The reason for the Quota that I was told by my BDG RSM is that if there were no quotas some units would not submit any names as they would just take the lazy way out and say they have no deserving soldiers.


----------



## navig8ur

Some of the controversy over the awarding of this medal stems from the fact that most folks are aware that it is placed between the CD and Canada 125 in precedence.  I have no doubt that the vast majority of recipients are more than worthy, but should they not then be receiving a medal of a more appropriate precedence?

We have lots of tour medals, a TI decoration, a few valour and bravery medals, but when it comes to meritorious service, the CF has very few and few are awarded annually.  An additional meritorious medal or two, with gradually increasing level of precedence would allow leadership to recognize varying levels of meritorious service.  Similar in intent to the MSC and MSM, actions in a focused context could be singled out and awarded.


----------



## Strike

So, the Biebs is defending his outfit, saying that he was at a meet and greet just prior and couldn't be expected to change right after (Really?  I've seen some pretty quick costume changes during concerts.  In fact, he's probably done more than a few himself).  He also defended the outfit by saying that the presentation was done at a hockey rink, not in the PMs place (of work I assume?) or anything.

Seriously, this kid needs to stop posting on Twitter and to news feeds and start thinking a bit more.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Strike said:
			
		

> this kid



Is not out stealing cars, peddling drugs or singing songs about killing cops.....................

He is just a 





			
				Strike said:
			
		

> kid


----------



## Bzzliteyr

According to the justice system he is actually an adult now.


----------



## Jungle

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Is not out stealing cars, peddling drugs or singing songs about killing cops.....................



Exactly !! I am not a fan of Bieber, and do not agree with his choice of clothes for the award (of the QDJM) however, he is not in the Military and I don't know if there was a dress code for the ceremony he attended.

That said, he is doing good in his community, unlike a lot of kids his age, and he is being recognized for it. Good for him.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Maybe they should have had justin sing at the grey cup..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgR9d-crm8g


----------



## PuckChaser

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Maybe they should have had justin sing at the grey cup..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgR9d-crm8g



He did, at half time... it was almost as bad as Burton.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Bruce, and Jungle actually nailed it for me.  I never thought of it that way, but the kid is doing alot what we wish our youth were doing, so he does deserves kudos for that.

Now my question is this, since PSY just beat Bieber for the most liked youtube video, will he get one?

http://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0

 >

dileas

tess


----------



## Jarnhamar

Then his fate is sealed!  

We had a bunch more awards handed out today. The people who got them as far as I could tell were all quite deserving of the 'based on merit' condition.


----------



## The Bread Guy

The latest on Bieber's dress - from the PM ....


> In fairness to @justinbieber, I told him I would be wearing my overalls too. #cdnpoli #beliebers



.... and from Bieber himself:


> The pic of me and the Prime Minister was taken in a room in the arena where i was performing at that day. I walked straight from my meet and greet to him, if you "Hayley"* expect me to have a change of clothes let a loan a suit at that specific time that's crazy, It wasn't like it was like I was going into his environment we were at a hockey arena. Wow am i ever white trash hayley peterson lol


May be a great performer to those who like him, but still needs spell- and grammar-check, even for short pieces of writing  

* - Hayley Peterson wrote this critique


----------



## Fishbone Jones

> The pic of me and the Prime Minister was taken in a room in the arena where i was performing at that day. I walked straight from my meet and greet to him, if you "Hayley"* expect me to have a change of clothes let a loan a suit at that specific time that's crazy, It wasn't like it was like I was going into his environment we were at a hockey arena. Wow am i ever white trash hayley peterson lol



It's not like someone just walked up to him and said "Hey JB, the PM just showed up in the hallway and wants to give you something"

I'm sure his handlers knew well in advance and could have put the appropriate measures in place. Either that, or he just doesn't give a rat's ass.

May be he's been reading this thread


----------



## Remius

I can't believe (Belieb) we are wasting bandwith on this.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Crantor said:
			
		

> I can't believe (Belieb) we are wasting bandwith on this.



Good point. I'm just burned that Celina Gomez wasn't there too and a victim of 'costume failure'.  ;D


----------



## psionic0

I'll be the first to say this,

I propose instead of labeling someone who's dress out of regs as: "a bag of s*#T " or "bag of hammers", Why not say: Who do you think you are; Justin Bieber!
I actually did this to one of my troopers this morning. Hilarious!!!  ;D ;D ;D  I couldn't keep a straight face for the rest of the inspection!


----------



## cupper

psionic0 said:
			
		

> I'll be the first to say this,
> 
> I propose instead of labeling someone who's dress out of regs as: "a bag of s*#T " or "bag of hammers", Why not say: Who do you think you are; Justin Bieber!
> I actually did this to one of my troopers this morning. Hilarious!!!  ;D ;D ;D  I couldn't keep a straight face for the rest of the inspection!



That's just mean. Watch out that your troop doesn't try and slap you with a human rights violation. ;D


----------



## Danjanou

cupper said:
			
		

> That's just mean. Watch out that your troop doesn't try and slap you with a human rights violation. ;D



Naah it's good. I completed a mandatory 1/2 day Human Rights/Harrasment in the Workplace referesher training yesterday and "Beiber" does not fall into any of the 14 prohibited code areas. 8)


----------



## cupper

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Naah it's good. I completed a mandatory 1/2 day Human Rights/Harrasment in the Workplace referesher training yesterday and "Beiber" does not fall into any of the 14 prohibited code areas. 8)



As long as it was only directed towards his dress and deportment, I guess that is OK.


----------



## little jim

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> 3. Broadly and generally, with a few notable exceptions, *service* to a cause, to a community, to the country, even to humanity at large, is being recognized.



I am quoting this one as a lonely RegF guy I just received a copy of a list of a number of QDJM presented to my old militia unit.  

I for one am glad to see, and as much as they complain, that someone at some rank level recognized those individuals who have made personal sacrifice that has bettered their units (and their community).

Everyone likes to be told they have done a good job, read a glowing PER or gotten that politically incorrect 'pat-on-the-rear'

Well done to all who have been recognized.


----------



## Danjanou

little jim said:
			
		

> Everyone likes to be told they have done a good job, read a glowing PER or gotten that politically incorrect 'pat-on-the-rear'



 :goodpost:

Yes it's not a VC, but for some poor troopie it is a tangible sign that yes they've done a good job and someone knows that and something that they may find a degree of pride in.


----------



## the 48th regulator

This is the best!!

The SGT. that works in the office with me, just told all of us he had been _Biebered_.  When we asked what that meant, he said he has received a letter stating he is going to get the Jubilee Medal, and that now people are saying that you are "Biebered" if you have one!!!!!!

 :rofl:


----------



## Tank Troll

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> This is the best!!
> 
> The SGT. that works in the office with me, just told all of us he had been _Biebered_.  When we asked what that meant, he said he has received a letter stating he is going to get the Jubilee Medal, and that now people are saying that you are "Biebered" if you have one!!!!!!
> 
> :rofl:



Yup that's "F"n hilarious  :

 :sarcasm:


----------



## cupper

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> This is the best!!
> 
> The SGT. that works in the office with me, just told all of us he had been _Biebered_.  When we asked what that meant, he said he has received a letter stating he is going to get the Jubilee Medal, and that now people are saying that you are "Biebered" if you have one!!!!!!
> 
> :rofl:



As if credibility wasn't already down the tubes.


----------



## my72jeep

Great its now the QDBM(Queens Diamond Bibber Medal).


----------



## Edward Campbell

Maybe everyone who gets one, from now on, ought to attend the presentation in coveralls.


----------



## kratz

As posted in this other thread, David Chen Wang, the Chinatown storekeeper is being awarded the QDJM.


----------



## Edward Campbell

kratz said:
			
		

> As posted in this other thread, David Chen Wang, the Chinatown storekeeper is being awarded the QDJM.




Good; maybe he "neutralizes" the rich kid in overalls.


----------



## Danjanou

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Good; maybe he "neutralizes" the rich kid in overalls.



His and the one awarded to our own Mr Seggie would I would think.  I found of the three persons I nominated for their work with Veterans, one has been awarded it. The MP isn't handing his out until this month. The other MP who had two nominations from me appears from their web site is not doing anything with the 30 she was given to distribute.


----------



## subhunter

Got one - it was a very nice surprise from my unit, and I appreciate it. Still, I know many mbrs of my Squadron who I feel were more deserving. When I saw the Beebs getting it, I could have really cared less that he did. Anyone tell me I've been 'Biebered', I'll just smile - again, could care less.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Sic Itur Ad Astra said:
			
		

> Got one - it was a very nice surprise from my unit, and I appreciate it. Still, I know many mbrs of my Squadron who I feel were more deserving. When I saw the Beebs getting it, I could have really cared less that he did. Anyone tell me I've been 'Biebered', I'll just smile - again, could care less.




Good for you; that's the right attitude. You were selected on a merit based system ~ not a perfect system, none is, but a systems that ensured good people were recognized.

Mr. Bieber (is it "e before e" in his name?) is, apparently, a talented young man who has risen to the top of his field and was rewarded as a result ~ good for him, too. Yes there were a few "awards" (by politicians) that caused some (justifiably) raised eyebrows but, hey, it's Canada and we should be proud of our diversity, including the diversity of our opinions.


----------



## 57Chevy

kratz said:
			
		

> David Chen Wang, the Chinatown storekeeper is being awarded the QDJM.



Well deserved and glad for him :nod:

And for you too Mr. Seggie


----------



## OldSolduer

57Chevy said:
			
		

> Well deserved and glad for him :nod:
> 
> And for you too Mr. Seggie



Thank you very much.


----------



## Danjanou

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> This is the best!!
> 
> The SGT. that works in the office with me, just told all of us he had been _Biebered_.  When we asked what that meant, he said he has received a letter stating he is going to get the Jubilee Medal, and that now people are saying that you are "Biebered" if you have one!!!!!!
> 
> :rofl:



So that';s two people in the same office that have been _Biebered_ now  8)

BTW I spoke too soon earlier. The other MP was just a bit behind in her nominations and both people I put in for it got it.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/08/queens-diamond-jubilee-medals-a-fiasco

Queen’s Diamond Jubilee medals a fiasco
 By Warren Kinsella ,QMI Agency 
 Saturday, February 09, 2013 07:00 PM EST


----------



## Edward Campbell

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/08/queens-diamond-jubilee-medals-a-fiasco
> 
> Queen’s Diamond Jubilee medals a fiasco
> By Warren Kinsella ,QMI Agency
> Saturday, February 09, 2013 07:00 PM EST




Hmmm ... I guess not enough went to Liberals. Warren Kinsella is a buffoon. He is part of the QMI/Sun media thing in order to provide "balance" for Ezra Levant, who is also a clown. They are a well matched pair: two mouthy, opinionated, politically partisan, over the top lawyers with high high IQs and no common sense.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

He seems to go to great pains to show all the supposed bad Conservative handouts, but fails to mention any of the ones handed to partisan people and organisations by the Liberal and NDP MPs and MPPs.


----------



## dapaterson

In the "QDJM off the rails" discussion, apparently the city council of London Ontario decided to award the medal to the hardest working people they could find, all dedicated to making a better city.  Step up, City of London City Council!

 :facepalm:


----------



## Ostrozac

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/08/queens-diamond-jubilee-medals-a-fiasco
> 
> Queen’s Diamond Jubilee medals a fiasco
> By Warren Kinsella ,QMI Agency
> Saturday, February 09, 2013 07:00 PM EST



Mister Kinsella's rant is worthless, in that he didn't do a compare and contrast with the issuing of the last two commemorative medals -- the Canada 125, issued when Brian Mulroney was PM, and the Queen's Golden Jubilee, issued when Jean Chretien was PM.

If he had manged to submit some evidence that this was an established completely non-partisan process that Steven Harper has screwed up, he might have a point. But even those who argue that the QDJM process is flawed largely admit that the process has been flawed for some time, and is not a flaw that has recently been invented by the current government. 

Warren Kinsella has been dialling it in for quite some time.


----------



## x-grunt

I fully understand that this is an older thread, but I wanted to acknowledge Mr Campbell's comments on this topic (quoted below, bold is mine).



			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> <snip>
> 3. *Broadly and generally, with a few notable exceptions, service to a cause, to a community, to the country, even to humanity at large, is being recognized*.
> 
> *Based on that, no-one should be anything except proud to wear this. * The fact that I (and maybe others) don't much care for Justin Bieber is worth exactly the same as my opinion on various issues: nothing, at all. For all I know he is a nice young man who cares about his community and supports good causes and, and, and ... it doesn't really matter what I think about his sartorial choices, either.
> 
> We are, I suspect, going to see more, not less _bling_ over the coming years; unless the government decides to give one e.g. _Canada 150_ medal to every lawfully serving member of the CF,* there will be debates about how they are "awarded." *If you get one then I hope you will wear it with some pride in what in represents and in the fact that you CoC thought you worthy to carry it*; if you don't get one I hope you will shrug and thank your luck stars you don't need to pay to get your medals remounted.
> 
> 
> _____
> * Or one to each serving (regular and reserve) GOFO and CWO/MWO ~ which means the medals will _disappear_ from everyday wear sooner



I thank you Mr. Campbell for your comments. There has been a lot of discussion about the QDJM that has largely been negative.  

If any of you reading this have been awarded one, I hope you are wearing it proudly for what it represents, as Mr. Campbell stated. Quite reasonably you may think it far less significant then your SSM or your GCS etc, but it is still a national award - and you were chosen to receive it, hopefully for good reason.

I am a civilian recipient of the QDJM, and received mine alongside some people who I know are hard working, selfless individuals who genuinely are proud of their country and community and were honoured for their contributions to same. In their case it was in no way an "attendance medal." I have heard of a few who received it that certainly made me wonder what fool gave them a medal. But they are a minority.

I believe that in the civvie world a great many of these medals are well deserved, even though the process is, admittedly, flawed. Some people who got one perhaps shouldn't have. However I think most have earned the recognition. (I won't speak to the military's process. I've been out for over 30 years so I know nothing about the current CF but what I read.) 

It disturbs me to have the QDJM dismissed as generally worthless. I'm proud of my medal. I don't want to think of it as a dime store trinket. I'm proud that someone thought enough of me to award it.  I'm even more proud to be recognized alongside other recipients I _know_ are worthy. Some have really made a difference, and I hope I have as well.



(On a more selfish note, medals were few and far between when I was in uniform, this is likely the only one I'll ever get! I think it looks darn good on my suit.  )


----------



## Fishbone Jones

x-grunt said:
			
		

> I fully understand that this is an older thread, but I wanted to acknowledge Mr Campbell's comments on this topic (quoted below, bold is mine).
> 
> I thank you Mr. Campbell for your comments. There has been a lot of discussion about the QDJM that has largely been negative.
> 
> If any of you reading this have been awarded one, I hope you are wearing it proudly for what it represents, as Mr. Campbell stated. Quite reasonably you may think it far less significant then your SSM or your GCS etc, but it is still a national award - and you were chosen to receive it, hopefully for good reason.
> 
> I am a civilian recipient of the QDJM, and received mine alongside some people who I know are hard working, selfless individuals who genuinely are proud of their country and community and were honoured for their contributions to same. In their case it was in no way an "attendance medal." I have heard of a few who received it that certainly made me wonder what fool gave them a medal. But they are a minority.
> 
> I believe that in the civvie world a great many of these medals are well deserved, even though the process is, admittedly, flawed. Some people who got one perhaps shouldn't have. However I think most have earned the recognition. (I won't speak to the military's process. I've been out for over 30 years so I know nothing about the current CF but what I read.)
> 
> It disturbs me to have the QDJM dismissed as generally worthless. I'm proud of my medal. I don't want to think of it as a dime store trinket. I'm proud that someone thought enough of me to award it.  I'm even more proud to be recognized alongside other recipients I _know_ are worthy. Some have really made a difference, and I hope I have as well.
> 
> 
> 
> (On a more selfish note, medals were few and far between when I was in uniform, this is likely the only one I'll ever get! I think it looks darn good on my suit.  )



Congrats!


----------



## McG

> *Top Harper advisors included on list of Diamond Jubilee recipients*
> Glen McGregor
> Ottawa Citizen
> 11 September 2013
> 
> Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s wife and several of his top advisors last year received Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee medals intended to recognize important contributions to Canada.
> 
> A database of recipients of the medal that was published this week lists Laureen Harper among the approximately 60,000 Canadians honoured for their contributions to the country.
> 
> Rideau Hall, which administers the award, refuses to say who gave medals to whom, but the Prime Minister’s office says Harper received her medal from Governor General David Johnston, “for her community work with various charities.”
> 
> Like all MPs, Harper’s husband also received a Diamond Jubilee medal commemorating the Queen’s 60 years on the throne.
> 
> Ray Novak, the prime minister’s chief of staff, and two of his predecessors in the top advisory job, Guy Giorno and Ian Brodie, also numbered among the recipients.
> 
> Dimitri Soudas, Harper’s former press secretary and director of communications, received a medal, too. Soudas left the PMO in 2011 and became communications director for the Canadian Olympic Committee.
> 
> The Citizen could find no examples of senior employees of the Liberal or NDP leaders’ offices receiving Diamond Jubilee medals.
> 
> To qualify for the medal, a recipient must have “made a significant contribution to Canada or to a particular province, territory, region or community, or has made an achievement abroad that brings credit to Canada.”
> 
> Giorno, who served as the PM’s top advisor from 2008 to the end of 2010, co-managed the Conservatives’ 2011 election campaign, along with Jenni Byrne, who also received the medal.
> 
> Giorno now practices public law with the firm Fasken Martineau. He did not respond to requests for comment.
> 
> Brodie served as chief of staff in the PMO from 2006 to 2008. He said in an email that he was chosen for the award by the Conference of Defence Associations, one of the “partner organizations” selected by the Department of Canadian Heritage to hand out 10,000 of the Diamond Jubilee medals to recipients they chose.
> 
> Brodie sits on the association’s board of directors.
> 
> Byrne was director of political operations for the Conservatives when she received the medal and recently moved to the PMO to become deputy chief of staff. News of Byrne’s Diamond Jubilee medal first surfaced last year, when a Conservative Party staff member posted a photograph of the certificate that accompanied it on Twitter. At the time, Byrne did not respond to a request for more information.
> 
> The medals were automatically awarded to all MPs, senators, and members of the Queen’s Privy Council, which includes many former Liberal cabinet ministers and prime ministers.
> 
> Current parliamentarians were each allotted 30 medals to hand out to whomever they chose. But because Rideau Hall won’t say who gave their medals to whom, these details are disclosed only voluntarily by the donors.
> 
> Last year, the Citizen asked all MPs for lists of people they gave medals. Many refused to provide them, referring inquiries back to the governor general’s office.
> 
> One Conservative MP, Maurice Vellacott, angered some last year when he gave two of his medals to two anti-abortion activists who had been criminally convicted for protesting outside Toronto abortion clinics. One was in jail at the time Vellacott sent her the award.
> 
> The data released this week show that abortion doctor Henry Morgentaler also received a medal from an unidentified nominator, before he died in May.
> 
> Other honours handed out by the governor general, such as the Order of Canada, are carefully screened by a selection committee, which weighs hundreds of nominations each year.
> 
> But the nominations for Diamond Jubilee medals were subject only to cursory vetting by Rideau Hall, to avoid duplication and ensure recipients were eligible — they must have been Canadian citizens or permanent residents and alive on February 6, 2012, the anniversary of the Queen’s accession to the throne.
> 
> The list of partner organizations includes industry lobby groups and even some politically active organizations, such as the socially-conservative REAL Women of Canada, which recently denounced Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird for speaking out against Russia’s retrograde law limiting the rights of gays and lesbians.
> 
> REAL Women declined to provide its list of medal recipients when the Citizen asked last year.
> 
> The database of recipients includes many public figures from the world of arts, sports, and broadcast media, including CBC newscaster Peter Mansbridge, author Margaret Atwood, and hockey players Sidney Crosby and Wayne Gretzky. Gretzky’s father Walter, and disgraced Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson are also on the list.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Harper+advisors+included+list+Diamond+Jubilee+recipients/8899944/story.html


----------



## myself.only

While the optics aren't great (as if they ever are), personally I'm not too eager to jump on the PM's wife and some top advisors for getting the QDJM since I'm not in any position to say if any of them were not actively involved in community work and don't deserve it. (I say actively because I construe the criteria to mean more than my name on letterhead and attended a banquet / photo-op or two.) 

_On the other hand_, I personally can't get behind the idea that as a group, owing to their position and nothing else, all MPs, Senators and members of the PC *automatically* qualify for one. 

But that could just be me...


----------



## my72jeep

See now every one wants a Bibber.


----------



## x_para76

Does anyone on here really care about receiving a gimme medal? It's more of a pain having to get it mounted and then the cost associated along with that.


----------



## dangerboy

X_para76 said:
			
		

> Does anyone on here really care about receiving a gimme medal? It's more of a pain having to get it mounted and then the cost associated along with that.



I will only speak for myself, but I felt honoured to be selected by my unit to get the medal.  Having sat in my Company level selection board I know my unit did not treat it as a "gimme" medal but treated it as it was intended to be an honour and recognition for the job the soldier did.


----------



## x_para76

I can see your point there. Even a few of the civilians who received it ie. Jan Devries widow were very deserving of the award. I just fealt it devalued the medal when they gave it to some members of the entertainment and media community.


----------



## Danjanou

X_para76 said:
			
		

> Does anyone on here really care about receiving a gimme medal? It's more of a pain having to get it mounted and then the cost associated along with that.



Feel free to return it then. I'm sure whomever decided you rated one will gladly ensure it is awarded to someone else who was nominated but did not receive one.


----------



## MJP

X_para76 said:
			
		

> Does anyone on here really care about receiving a gimme medal? It's more of a pain having to get it mounted and then the cost associated along with that.


I won't discuss your flippant remark as I believe DB has covered it succinctly enough and you realized you might not have looked at from certain perspectives.

I must ask what cost?  Court mounting is a reimbursable expense and in some cases a cost that hidden to CAF members in areas where clothing has a contract in place.  There is something to be said about staying in ones lane...  :nod:


----------



## PuckChaser

dangerboy said:
			
		

> I will only speak for myself, but I felt honoured to be selected by my unit to get the medal.  Having sat in my Company level selection board I know my unit did not treat it as a "gimme" medal but treated it as it was intended to be an honour and recognition for the job the soldier did.



Hit the nail on the head here. Who cares why someone else got the medal, as long as you know how/why you were selected?


----------



## George Wallace

X_para76 said:
			
		

> I can see your point there. Even a few of the civilians who received it ie. Jan Devries widow were very deserving of the award. I just fealt it devalued the medal when they gave it to some members of the entertainment and media community.



Many of us feel the same.  There are those who are very deserving of such honours for their contributions.  At the same time, there are others that we feel cheapen the award, through our own biases and disagreement with the criteria set to award some questionable persons the awards.  When we look at the non-military side of the award, we often overlook the contributions that some have made to Canada and Canadian society.  And so we land up seeing the Justin Biebers getting such awards as being negative due to those biases.  We criticize those decisions and then criticize them even more when those personalities do something outrageous or disrespectful.

The award has been presented.  That is the end of it.  When you are at a function and looking at someone's awards, does it matter to you if they were in a Recce Platoon or a cook in a KAF?   Does it matter if the recipient got it as a ground pounder or as an airman or sailor?  They met the criteria and received the award, and that is it.  What we think really doesn't matter and we should keep it to ourselves............Then of course we have the opposite in another topic....The posers.   >


----------



## Pusser

myself.only said:
			
		

> While the optics aren't great (as if they ever are), personally I'm not too eager to jump on the PM's wife



It was difficult, but I managed to fight the urge to comment... ;D



			
				myself.only said:
			
		

> _On the other hand_, I personally can't get behind the idea that as a group, owing to their position and nothing else, all MPs, Senators and members of the PC *automatically* qualify for one.



I don't believe that all senators and MPs were actually given any for themselves.  What they got was an allocation to award to others.

The article also speaks with a somewhat negative undertone about a number of people like Wayne Gretzky and Henry Morgentaler also  getting them.  Folks should note that all living members of the Order of Canada (which both Gretzky and Morgentaler were at the time) received the Diamond Jubilee Medal automatically.  There was no selection process for them.  This is often the case with commemorative medals.  The same was true of the Silver and Golden Jubilee medals and the 125.


----------



## Lightguns

It is what it is, a commemorative that you are authorized on the left side.  If you get one be proud.  Someone has decided that, in their eyes, you done something of note.  It is unfortunate that the politicans decide who gets the majority of the medals but that does not cheapen my award.  I got a the Golden instead of the Command Commendation the year it came out for my work in Distribution Learning and I got Diamond (British) for my work on the International Baden Powell Scouting Association (actually, the whole committee got one Diamond to share which gives me an extra little cloth patch to wear on my IFIS-BSA uniform :dunno. 

Edited for a ruddy spell check - I passed!


----------



## myself.only

Pusser said:
			
		

> I don't believe that all senators and MPs were actually given any for themselves.  What they got was an allocation to award to others.



I was just going by the article posted by MCG that states they were "awarded" the medal. If that's not then case, then please disregard my last.


----------



## Danjanou

Pusser said:
			
		

> I don't believe that all senators and MPs were actually given any for themselves.  What they got was an allocation to award to others.



Nope all sitting MPs received one (in addition to the 30 they were to award to deserving constituents). I had to gently advise my  MP he was wearing his incorrectly.


----------



## Lightguns

Technically, they were awarded... by the GG. Of course the recommendation came from the PMO. But that is splitting hairs.  ;D


----------



## Bagpiper42

Lightguns said:
			
		

> It is what it is, a commemorative that you are authorized on the left side.  If you get one be proud.  Someone has decided that, in their eyes, you done something of note.  It is unfortunate that the politicans decide who gets the majority of the medals but that does not cheapen my award.  I got a the Golden instead of the Command Commendation the year it came out for my work in Distribution Learning and I got Diamond (British) for my work on the International Baden Powell Scouting Association (actually, the whole committee got one Diamond to share which gives me an extra little cloth patch to wear on my IFIS-BSA uniform :dunno.
> 
> Edited for a ruddy spell check - I passed!


1. You say you received a British Diamond Jubilee medal for working on a scouting committee.  However,  in the United Kingdom and its overseas territories, medals were awarded only to members of HM Armed Forces (regular and reserves) who had served longer than five years, operational members of HM Prison Service, and emergency services personnel (including Police Community Support Officers) who have been in paid service, retained or in a voluntary capacity, and who had completed five full calendar years of service on 6 February 2012.  Do you fall into any of those categories?  :dunno:
2.  You say a group of people received one medal to share among you.  This is very unbelievable.  The Diamond Jubilee Medal (UK and Canada) was only awarded to individuals, like all such medals.


----------



## 63 Delta

Bagpiper42 said:
			
		

> 1. You say you received a British Diamond Jubilee medal for working on a scouting committee.  However,  in the United Kingdom and its overseas territories, medals were awarded only to members of HM Armed Forces (regular and reserves) who had served longer than five years, operational members of HM Prison Service, and emergency services personnel (including Police Community Support Officers) who have been in paid service, retained or in a voluntary capacity, and who had completed five full calendar years of service on 6 February 2012.  Do you fall into any of those categories?  :dunno:
> 2.  You say a group of people received one medal to share among you.  This is very unbelievable.  The Diamond Jubilee Medal (UK and Canada) was only awarded to individuals, like all such medals.



Did you really decide to have your first post calling someone out on a Queen Diamond Jubilee Medal? I mean who cares. If someone really goes around Walting a QDJM, then let them have it. Its a QDJM.


----------



## Journeyman

HULK_011 said:
			
		

> Did you really decide to have your first post calling someone out on a Queen Diamond Jubilee Medal?


 ......with an unnecessarily large font?   :


----------



## Bagpiper42

HULK_011 said:
			
		

> Did you really decide to have your first post calling someone out on a Queen Diamond Jubilee Medal? I mean who cares. If someone really goes around Walting a QDJM, then let them have it. Its a QDJM.


No, I obviously didn't have to.   But I did.   I guess it makes sense to you that one UK QDJM was awarded to a group of people who are not in the UK military/police/etc to share among themselves.  However, it peeked my curiosity.  I suspect he believes he was actually awarded one, but it is more likely some kind of misunderstanding.  If he does want to claim he got one, then he should do it in a more beleivable fashion.  Maybe he should try claiming he is a member of the royal family or that his MPP gave him one.  The QDJM is already sad enough with Beiber getting one without people claiming they got one when they didn't.  That is all.


----------



## armyvern

Bagpiper42 said:
			
		

> No, I obviously didn't have to.   But I did.   I guess it makes sense to you that one UK QDJM was awarded to a group of people who are not in the UK military/police/etc to share among themselves.  However, it peeked my curiosity.  I suspect he believes he was actually awarded one, but it is more likely some kind of misunderstanding.  If he does want to claim he got one, then he should do it in a more beleivable fashion.  Maybe he should try claiming he is a member of the royal family or that his MPP gave him one.  The QDJM is already sad enough with Beiber getting one without people claiming they got one when they didn't.  That is all.



Why did you bring up minimum number of years for military service and awarding of the DJM then?  He clearly stated that he was awarded his due to scouting, not mil service.


----------



## Bagpiper42

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Why did you bring up minimum number of years for military service and awarding of the DJM then?  He clearly stated that he was awarded his due to scouting, not mil service.


Sorry, I thought that was obvious.  The UK QDJM was only given to military/police/corrective service personnel with five years of service.  He claims to have been awarded a UK QDJM for being on a scouting committee.  Well, apart from the ones awarded to the royal family, no civilians were awarded a UK QDJM.  So unless he is part of the royal family or in the UK military, he most certainly was not awarded a UK QDJM.  If was actually awarded one, it was not because of being on a scouting committee.  I thought maybe he was in the military in the UK and was confused as to why he got one.  Anyway, it seems on this forum that using the wrong font size is worse than claiming a medal you didn't actually receive.  My bad.


----------



## armyvern

Well, the little cloth badge he posted of certainly exists.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, the little cloth badge he posted of certainly exists.



Gee, imagine  that! Wonder if someone will be eating crow, instead of turkey this Thanksgiving 

I suppose fact checking isn't the forte of some new posters though.

However, I appreciate the MP demotion for trying to point it out. Kinda makes it worth it. ;D


----------



## Bagpiper42

recceguy said:
			
		

> Gee, imagine  that! Wonder if someone will be eating crow, instead of turkey this Thanksgiving
> 
> I suppose fact checking isn't the forte of some new posters though.
> 
> However, I appreciate the MP demotion for trying to point it out. Kinda makes it worth it. ;D


I stand corrected.  Clearly this patch proves that the UK government was handing out Diamond Jubilee Medals to groups of people to share who were not in the military/police/correctional service.  Wait.....no it doesn't.  I gave you the -25 points for calling me an a-hole.  You didn't point anything out regarding the veracity of the claim of Lightguns that he was part of a group of civilians that received a UK QDJM. Feel free to fact check how the UK QDJM was handed out.  Also, if you can fact check whether or not the UK was in fact handed out to groups of civilians to share, that would be great.  I already did and they weren't. I don't think I claimed the "little cloth patch" didn't exist.  However, this patch you found appears to be a patch that every scout wears until the end of 2012, like the 1812 pin on the CF uniform.  I suspect the "little cloth patch" he was referring to is an undress ribbon that he will mount alongside his Golden Jubilee undress ribbon.


----------



## George Wallace

Bagpiper42 said:
			
		

> I stand corrected.  Clearly this patch proves that the UK government was handing out Diamond Jubilee Medals to groups of people to share who were not in the military/police/correctional service.  Wait.....no it doesn't.  I gave you the -25 points for calling me an a-hole.  You didn't point anything out regarding the veracity of the claim of Lightguns that he was part of a group of civilians that received a UK QDJM. Feel free to fact check how the UK QDJM was handed out.  Also, if you can fact check whether or not the UK was in fact handed out to groups of civilians to share, that would be great.  I already did and they weren't. I don't think I claimed the "little cloth patch" didn't exist.  However, this patch you found appears to be a patch that every scout wears until the end of 2012, like the 1812 pin on the CF uniform.  I suspect the "little cloth patch" he was referring to is an undress ribbon that he will mount alongside his Golden Jubilee undress ribbon.




Do you have a problem with posting on internet forums, that you have to change the fonts?   It is very annoying.  Could you please mail out magnifying glasses to the rest of us so we can read your posts?


----------



## Lightguns

Did I miss a trolling?  Yes indeed the cloth patch is the item issued to the committee. Thank you all for your wonderful common sense defense of the obvious.  Very good of you to come to my aid. 

B3. I have 32 years time, I know the difference between an undress ribbon and a scouting award. If ever I wear my scouting awards in the future they will be on the left in civilian clothes and as authorized in scout uniform. You, sir, are very angry man and I desire no further interaction with you.


----------



## Scott

Font size fixed.

Lightguns, don't let a troll get to you. 

B3, don't start playing screen name games or keep frigging around with font. Enough.


----------



## old fart

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Why did you bring up minimum number of years for military service and awarding of the DJM then?  He clearly stated that he was awarded his due to scouting, not mil service.



Sat here pondering the exchange between B3 and Lighthorse.  Yes, Lighthorse eluded that he was selected by committee on which he was a member to receive their one allocated QDJM medal for scouting services.  Upfront, I think the whole story is *Hogwash - Clear enough*.  

Firstly, the statements made by Lighthorse cannot be looked at in the Canadian context where the award this side of the pond was more inclusive.  B3 clearly laid out the UK criteria.  No such medals were awarded to anyone other than those in the list he provided.  The UK criterion bares no resemblance to the Canadian iteration.

The comments from Lightguns once more as posted  "I got a the Golden instead of the Command Commendation the year it came out for my work in Distribution Learning and I got Diamond (British) for my work on the *International Baden Powell Scouting Association *(*actually, the whole committee got one Diamond to share* which gives me an extra little cloth patch to wear on my IFIS-BSA uniform :dunno.  

A search of "The Scouts Association (UK)" website (the organization most of us think about when we thing of the scouting movement) makes no mention of any QDJM award to any member whatsoever.  But "Lighthorse” never said he was affiliated with the UK Scouts association with but the lesser known "International Baden Powell Scouting Association".  It appears then, that he is likely affiliated with the  Baden-Powell Scouts' Association of Canada (a splinter scouting group not Scouts Canada) even though Mr GOOGLE makes no mention of this likely esteemed international youth association.  Anyway, a bit more background on the folks I think Lighthorse is associated with (and associated! Links): 

"The World Federation of Independent Scouts are represented in Canada by the BPSA in Canada, which was established in Victoria, British Columbia in February 1996 as the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association of Canada (B-PSAC), rejecting the perceived modernization of the Scout method by Scouts Canada and sharing its aims with the other branches of the B-PSA.[1]".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-PSA_Federation_of_Canada
http://www.bpsa-canada.org/
http://www.traditionalscouting.co.uk/
http://www.wfis-worldwide.org/wordpress/?page_id=32

A review of the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association UK website also yields nothing related to awards of the QDJM (http://www.traditionalscouting.co.uk/).  In fact as far as I can see you can't search this and related websites at all.

I am also bothered by the titles and acronyms Lighthorse uses in his post.  On the surface they seem to differ from the way the various groups name themselves.

So everyone was quick to pile on B3 (including the font and spelling police)...but he made a point.  Forget that no such UK QDJM medals were supposed to have been awarded beyond the scope outlined by B3, I therefore find it extremely hard to believe that an "International" scouting splinter group would be awarded a medal to “share” (more on this sharing bit in a moment) when the actual scouting association in the UK, with a member of the Royal Family as President were not entitled to any.

So, again, I can see where B3 is coming from.  Medals are not awarded to share in this manner.  I find if hard that the IBPSA (just made that acronym up - certainly nothing of these folks readily available to digest/disect on the WWW) would get a QDJM to share/dispose as they saw fit - when no other UK like organisation apparently did.  Medals are issued to in the name of The Queen to a named individual not small groups.

I started out as a young lad in Cubs, went onto Scouts and left to join the Army Cadets - I have no anti-scouting vendetta here.  but I do not believe that there was any “legal” award to Lighthorse, and furthermore, he thought his post would be believed at face value and not factually challenged this side of the pond.

The Gent in the article below, is quite agrieved he never received one - he could snag one on Ebay or somewhere though...but my bet is he would never do so:

http://www.nottinghampost.com/sailor-angry-won-t-receive-Diamond-Jubilee-medal/story-15542425-detail/story.html

Lighthorse - over to you...feel free to interact.  I am just not a Belieber, sorry believer.


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## PPCLI Guy

Tempest, meet teacup.

Walt, meet dink.

Nothing to see here


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## Lightguns

First, it is "Lightguns".  But I forgive you because in my advanced years I transpose as well; IFIS should be WFIS.

Second, I received from my committee QM, a letter signed by the commissioner denoting that the committee had been awarded the Diamond Jubilee and that all members are now entitled to wear a cloth patch about 2 inches in diameter with a royal device on it.  It was sent to me without charge and without my solicitation and I sewed it on as directed by the commissioner for the once or twice a year I go to Ontario actually get to wear my scouting uniform and my lemon squeezer.

Finally, let me apologize for mentioning this award in a humorous and off handed way, it seems to have made a number of individuals extremely upset.

Mod:  As this is a thread about about the QDJM, I will not post anymore about my issue.  If you gentlemen have more personal attacks to launch, please direct them to me via PM and let the thread discussion move along.

Edited to move the personal attack to PM.


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## old fart

Apologies on the name...a sign of my advancing years also by the look of it....

But I do not buy the award to a "committee"...never heard the like of it....especially the medal in question.  

Feel free to post a copy of the paperwork actually presenting the medal to the committee.

You can call it a personal attack if you like....at this time I call it bullshiit....

As for your patch....not the slightest bit interested in that aspect.


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## McG

And now the costs are in …


> * Diamond Jubilee program costs $8.1M, nearly $660K over budget: documents*
> Amy Minsky and Mike Le Couteur
> Global News
> 04 March 2014
> 
> OTTAWA — The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee medal program, meant to recognize Canadians for their contributions to the country, cost taxpayers $8.1 million —more than half a million over budget, newly-released documents obtained by Global News show.
> 
> “Although well-meaning by the governor general, I think it’s a bit much,” said Peter Emon, mayor of Greater Madawaska, Ont., in line to receive two jubilee medals just for being an elected official. “I think there are some worthy volunteers that should have received these, but their medals have a little bit of an aspersion or a negative tint to them.”
> 
> Emon returned his, saying it held little meaning since so many were handed out. He didn’t feel the need to be counted among pop star Justin Bieber, Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and Conservative party organizer Jenni Byrne.
> 
> The program was administered over three years; the awards were handed out last year.
> 
> Documents and photocopies of original invoices obtained by Global News through access-to-information legislation show a big chunk of the budget — nearly $3.1 million — was spent producing the 60,000 medals and shipping them out.
> 
> Other costs include salaries and overtime for the four employees tasked with administering the Diamond Jubilee program, which came to nearly half a million dollars; a marketing campaign came with a $48,000 price tag; letterhead and envelopes cost nearly $13,000.
> 
> Another $85,000 of the Diamond Jubilee’s program went to producing a National Film Board DVD box set celebrating the Queen, with more than 20,000 copies shipped to schools and libraries across the country.
> 
> The costs had the Opposition wondering whether the government is really being vigilant with how it spends taxpayer dollars.
> 
> It’s concerning that the program went over budget, said NDP treasury board critic Mathieu Ravignat, adding, however, it can prove an excellent way to pay respect to volunteers in communities across the country.
> 
> “We have to be concerned about the fiscal management of this government and this program,” he said. “They certainly should have done it at cost, certainly should have done it with what was expected, and unfortunately the government couldn’t deliver this fiscally responsibly.”
> 
> Like MPs, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation also took the opportunity to nominate a handful of people to receive medals. But the program was just too big, said Gregory Thomas, federal director of the fiscally conservative advocacy group.
> 
> “Had we given out fewer, we would have paid fewer salaries, you would have had lower shipping costs and not as many medals,” he said in an interview with Global News.
> 
> A request went to Heritage Canada late last week, asking why the program went over budget. Late Tuesday, the director of communications for Heritage Minister Shelly Glover disputed the numbers, saying the access to information department misinterpreted some costs, and the Diamond Jubilee program was actually delivered under budget.
> 
> “The ATI process works independently of the program itself, and the people responding to the request simply made an error in interpreting the database of grants and contributions,” Mike Storeshaw wrote in an email, adding the government stands by every penny spent on the program.
> 
> “From veterans to young people to community leaders of all kinds, the medals recognized tens of thousands of ordinary Canadians who do extraordinary things,” he wrote. “We are proud of our investment to support this most historic and significant anniversary.”


 http://globalnews.ca/news/1187480/diamond-jubilee-program-costs-8-1m-nearly-660k-over-budget/


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## MilEME09

I wonder how much of that 660k was for the medals given out to political friends of ministers


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## DAA

I can remember the griping that went on over this one   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Golden_Jubilee_Medal

"The Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal was awarded to active personnel in the British Armed Forces who had completed 5 years of qualifying service."

However, Canada decided to limit the distribution and I believe the criteria used was based on "Time in Rank/Top Down" with the greatest proportion being allocated to Jr Ranks.  So as not to "minimize" the importance of the award.      :facepalm:


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## daftandbarmy

DAA said:
			
		

> I can remember the griping that went on over this one   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Golden_Jubilee_Medal
> 
> "The Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal was awarded to active personnel in the British Armed Forces who had completed 5 years of qualifying service."
> 
> However, Canada decided to limit the distribution and I believe the criteria used was based on "Time in Rank/Top Down" with the greatest proportion being allocated to Jr Ranks.  So as not to "minimize" the importance of the award.      :facepalm:



No, we treated it like a 'OMM-lite' unfortunately...


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## eliminator

The QDJM (Canadian version) was issued similar to past commemorative medals such as the Queen's Coronation Medal, Canada Centennial Medal, Queen's Silver Jubilee Medal, Canada 125 Medal, and Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal. 

It was the Brit's that broke tradition and handed the QGJM and QDJM to those military and fire/police/ambulance/etc members that had served 5 years. 

Commemorative medals were never meant to be issued in such large numbers. However, unfortunately with limited distribution you cant' please everyone and the entire process turns into an ego measuring event.


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## eliminator

Oh, and just think that we will be going though this all over again in 2017 with the Canada 150 Medal and perhaps a King's Coronation Medal or even a Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medal.


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## OldSolduer

eliminator said:
			
		

> an ego measuring event.



Ego? How about P E N I S? >


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## Sailorwest

I sure wish this had been a simple time served award or even just randomly issued amongst the ranks. I had to write a dozen letters of merit nominating people to receive the DJM.


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## OldSolduer

eliminator said:
			
		

> Oh, and just think that we will be going though this all over again in 2017 with the Canada 150 Medal and perhaps a King's Coronation Medal or even a Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medal.



Wait for the 1914 pin you'll have to wear in all orders of dress. You'll need at least six per person.


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## ArmyRick

1914 Pin? Mom, Uncle Jim is scaring me with bad stories again! 

Is this serious? Oh dear. My sash could be used like a badge and pin collector for everything neato we get recognised for. Maybe I should not speak out loud because their are good idea fairies lurking everywhere.


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## Danjanou

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> .....My sash could be used like a badge and pin collector for everything neato we get recognised for.



Good training for that post army career as a Walmart greeter and/or RCL member.


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## OldSolduer

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Wait for the 1914 pin you'll have to wear in all orders of dress. You'll need at least six per person.



I forgot to mention the Vimy Ridge pin..... :'(


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## Danjanou

What no Second Ypres Pin (1915)
No Battle of the Somme Pin (1916)
No 100 Days Pin (1918) 

 :worms:


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## Sailorwest

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Wait for the 1914 pin you'll have to wear in all orders of dress. You'll need at least six per person.


Does it get worn above, below, to the left or right of the 1812 pin?


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## Tibbson

My DEU jacket is going to start to look like the windbreaker I wear for Shriners events.  lol


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## Danjanou

Schindler's lift said:
			
		

> My DEU jacket is going to start to look like the windbreaker I wear for Shriners events.  lol



See above, this is all part of Disneyland on the Rideau's master plan to make your transit from military to civilian employment easier.  8)


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## DAA

Schindler's lift said:
			
		

> My DEU jacket is going to start to look like the windbreaker I wear for Shriners events.  lol



The 1812 pin only has to be worn for 3 years.  I am dreading the time, when we decide to commemorate the "100 Years War".


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## Danjanou

DAA said:
			
		

> .  I am dreading the time, when we decide to commemorate the "100 Years War".



Especially when the bun fight about what units can claim to be awarded the Battle Honours.  :


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## jollyjacktar

Danjanou said:
			
		

> What no Second Ypres Pin (1915)
> No Battle of the Somme Pin (1916)
> No 100 Days Pin (1918)
> 
> :worms:


Hey hey now, what about Jutland?  

Gallipoli?  Passchendaele?


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## Lightguns

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Good training for that post army career as a Walmart greeter and/or RCL member.



There was a Walmart greeter in Saint John last weekend wearing ribbons, CD and Cyprus, No CPSM oddly enough.


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## Danjanou

Lightguns said:
			
		

> There was a Walmart greeter in Saint John last weekend wearing ribbons, CD and Cyprus, No CPSM oddly enough.



That's actually quite common among some of the older RCL types I've come across. They probably retired long before the CPSM came out and many had/have no idea they're entitled to it.


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## Tibbson

Danjanou said:
			
		

> That's actually quite common among some of the older RCL types I've come across. They probably retired long before the CPSM came out and many had/have no idea they're entitled to it.



There have been a couple of old Vets I've run into who knew they could get it but couldn't afford to get the mounts updated.  I've had them order it and through some connections I've got I managed to get them mounted "for free" (as far as the Vets knew).  Warms my heart to see them wearing their medals so proudly.


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## Danjanou

Schindler's lift said:
			
		

> There have been a couple of old Vets I've run into who knew they could get it but couldn't afford to get the mounts updated.  I've had them order it and through some connections I've got I managed to get them mounted "for free" (as far as the Vets knew).  Warms my heart to see them wearing their medals so proudly.



Same here, even went to try and get Poppy funds to pay for the cleaning, court mounting etc for some of the older guys on fixed incomes. Apparently this is not an appropriate usage of Poppy funds, and I know I could get a local guy who mounts medals to do it for cost to.


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## dapaterson

There is public funding available:


CANFORGEN 087/04 ADMHRMIL 043 211947Z JUN 04
COURT MOUNTING OF MEDALS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE FOR RETIRED MEMBERS
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS. : A. CANFORGEN 122/00 ADM HR MIL 072 251300Z OCT 00 
B. CANFORGEN 127/00 ADM (MAT) 008 031505Z NOV 00 
C. NDCDC MEETING MINUTES 7 NOV 2003 



REF A ADVISED THE NEW POLICY ON COURT MOUNTING OF MEDALS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE. REF B PROVIDED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO SUBJECT POLICY. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROVIDE A UPDATE TO THE POLICY 


DUE TO VARIOUS REASONS, CANADIAN FORCES MEDALS OR DECORATIONS THAT ARE NORMALLY RECEIVED WHILE THE MEMBERS ARE SERVING, ARE OFTEN RECEIVED AFTER THE MEMBERS ARE RETIRED 


THEREFORE THE NATIONAL DEFENCE CLOTHING AND DRESS COMMITTEE (NDCDC) AT REF C, HAS UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THAT RETIRED MEMBERS OF THE CF WHO HAVE BEEN AWARDED MEDALS OR DECORATIONS WHILE SERVING , BUT WERE RECEIVED AFTER RETIREMENT CAN HAVE THEIR MEDALS/DECORATIONS COURT MOUNTED AT PUBLIC EXPENSE EFFECTIVE 29 SEPT 00 IAW REF B 


FOR RETIRED MEMBERS THAT HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR THE COURT MOUNTING OF THEIR MEDALS/DECORATIONS, PROOF (RECEIPT) WILL BE REQUIRE FOR REIMBURSEMENT. ALL OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR COURT MOUNTING OF MEDALS/DECORATIONS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE ALREADY IN PLACE REMAIN UNCHANGED 


THIS IS A COORDINATED ADM(MAT)/ADM (HR) MIL MESSAGE


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## Danjanou

Excellent thanks, I think I can use this for some individuals. Owe you a beer or six next time I'm up your way


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## PPCLI Guy

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Same here, even went to try and get Poppy funds to pay for the cleaning, court mounting etc for some of the older guys on fixed incomes. Apparently this is not an appropriate usage of Poppy funds, and I know I could get a local guy who mounts medals to do it for cost to.



If you have a few specific cases in mind, I would be honoured to pay for the court mounting.


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## Tibbson

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There is public funding available:
> 
> 
> CANFORGEN 087/04 ADMHRMIL 043 211947Z JUN 04
> COURT MOUNTING OF MEDALS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE FOR RETIRED MEMBERS
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> 
> REFS. : A. CANFORGEN 122/00 ADM HR MIL 072 251300Z OCT 00
> B. CANFORGEN 127/00 ADM (MAT) 008 031505Z NOV 00
> C. NDCDC MEETING MINUTES 7 NOV 2003
> 
> 
> 
> REF A ADVISED THE NEW POLICY ON COURT MOUNTING OF MEDALS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE. REF B PROVIDED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO SUBJECT POLICY. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROVIDE A UPDATE TO THE POLICY
> 
> 
> DUE TO VARIOUS REASONS, CANADIAN FORCES MEDALS OR DECORATIONS THAT ARE NORMALLY RECEIVED WHILE THE MEMBERS ARE SERVING, ARE OFTEN RECEIVED AFTER THE MEMBERS ARE RETIRED
> 
> 
> THEREFORE THE NATIONAL DEFENCE CLOTHING AND DRESS COMMITTEE (NDCDC) AT REF C, HAS UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THAT RETIRED MEMBERS OF THE CF WHO HAVE BEEN AWARDED MEDALS OR DECORATIONS WHILE SERVING , BUT WERE RECEIVED AFTER RETIREMENT CAN HAVE THEIR MEDALS/DECORATIONS COURT MOUNTED AT PUBLIC EXPENSE EFFECTIVE 29 SEPT 00 IAW REF B
> 
> 
> FOR RETIRED MEMBERS THAT HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR THE COURT MOUNTING OF THEIR MEDALS/DECORATIONS, PROOF (RECEIPT) WILL BE REQUIRE FOR REIMBURSEMENT. ALL OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR COURT MOUNTING OF MEDALS/DECORATIONS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE ALREADY IN PLACE REMAIN UNCHANGED
> 
> 
> THIS IS A COORDINATED ADM(MAT)/ADM (HR) MIL MESSAGE



Thanks.  I'm aware of this and I know the local Legion is as well but the problem is that many of these old Vets are just not in a place where they could work the process or even know where to begin.  In my mind, and at my point in life, I can afford to take care of things for the times when I do find a Vet in need of an "sprucing up".  The look of pride in their eyes is more then thanks enough.


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