# Political correctness runs amok-Warriors Day Parade



## bossi (5 Jun 2001)

(FYI - I've received a number of e-mails from war veterans who are incensed by this issue.   Personally, I understand the "party line", but I also understand the veterans point of view.   And, since I was taught to respect my elders, I believe it is only proper that we defer to the wishes of the veterans, rather than politically correct milquetoasts.)
As an aside, if anybody wants to do the math - the article suggests 15 per cent of cadets join the CF.   Ironically, the size of the CF is fast approaching that of the cadets (55,000)!!!

WARNING:   newspaper article follows:

Vets aghast as cadets seek to rename Warriors' Day parades

Kathryn May, Ottawa Citizen
OTTAWA - Canada's war veterans are locked in battle with the country's cadet leaders over the future of Warriors' Day parades.

Veterans are outraged at suggestions the word "warrior" be dropped from their annual parades at local fairs. They claim it is a denial of history and destroys a critical piece of Canada's military tradition.

Cadet corps and squadrons, however, refused to march at Toronto's Canadian National Exhibition and the Western Fair in London, Ont., this year unless the title was replaced by "Veterans Day."

The cadets, nervous about projecting an image as child warriors, said they would assist and carry signs or flags, but would not march in formation under the old name.

Ed Halayko, who sits on London's Warriors' Day committee, sent a stinging letter to Art Eggleton, Minister of Defence, in which he wrote: "Kindly explain how Canada became a nation without her warriors in wars. First, the French were beaten, then the Yanks, then the Boers, then World War I -- particularly Vimy Ridge -- then World War II and Korea."

"Those wars were not fought by Girl Guides or generals, but by warrior soldiers. Therefore, what jackass ... is responsible for this latest effort to convert our once-proud military into some Boy Scout movement? I have nothing against scouting, but they are not fighting men," Mr. Halayko said.

Mr. Eggleton's department provides funding to the cadets.

Colonel Rick Hardy, director of Canada's cadets, said the youth program is not a training camp for "child soldiers," and sending them to march in a Warriors' Day parade sends the wrong message.

Col. Hardy said Canada decries the use of child soldiers internationally and cannot be seen promoting child warriors at home.

"We don't want that name associated with children and cadets seen as warriors or warrior wannabes," Col. Hardy said. "Certainly, no youth group in this country respects and understands the military traditions like the cadets do ... but they are not warriors, they are not child soldiers and that's a perception we want to get rid of."

Col. Hardy said Canada's 55,000 cadets, aged 12 to 18, are exposed to military structure and discipline but are not trained in military manoeuvres and tactics. Fifteen per cent of cadets end up joining the military.

The cadets were started approximately 127 years ago by local Militia units as a way to encourage youth to join their ranks.

Cadets remained a key recruiting and training ground for the Armed Forces until the 1960s, when the group's focus shifted to one of "citizenship, leadership, physical activity and knowledge of the military and its history."

For such veterans as Mr. Halayko, who is also chairman of the Armed Forces Pensioners Association, the drubbing of "warrior" is political correctness in the extreme.

He said it masks the grim realities of war and debases the sacrifices of the thousands of soldiers who were killed and who killed in Canada's wars.

"So ... wave a fleur-de-lys at the enemy and hope to frighten them off. Get real. Wars are won by fighting men, not frightened prancing nancies being politically correct -- whatever that might mean," Mr. Halayko wrote.

"This is such a scandal. What has Canada come to? It bothers those of us who spent six years of our lives overseas to see this happen. It's part of our country and heritage."

Cadets will participate in the Warriors' Day parade at the CNE this year, as they always have, but they will not march with the veterans.

Parade organizers said they were surprised and perplexed by the cadets' objections. "What floors us is they don't want to be known as warriors but they're being trained as warriors," said Len Pelletier, the parade secretary.

He said the Toronto committee refused to budge and change the name of an 80-year tradition. He said the cadets want to review their position before taking part in next year's parade. He said they could be replaced by Boy Scouts and the parade would continue with or without them.

"We're certainly not going to change our name. We're going to keep on organizing the parade every year until there's no one left to parade," Mr. Pelletier said.

The Warriors' Day parade in London, a centrepiece of the Western Fair since 1920, is reluctantly changing its name, said Mr. Halayko. In a close vote, the parade committee decided it simply cannot continue the parade in the long run without the participation of the cadets.


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## the patriot (5 Jun 2001)

This isn‘t happening in this country is it?!  Let me get this right.  We had multiculturalism in the 70‘s and 80‘s which was celebrated in Toronto as Caravan. Why the need for SHARP?!  There already was a harassment warning process in place prior to the SHARP program.  Now with the end of the Cold War, the idiotic officers at NDHQ want to tinker with domestic policy within the military.
I know of ethnic minorities who think that political correctness  has gone TOO FAR!!!  Dropping the word "Warrior" from the Warrior‘s Day Parade in 80‘s would have got a person shot in the head!!!  And for those who are interested, Ontario had a black Lieutenant-Governor (Lincoln Alexander) in the 80‘s who probably would have bitten the head off anyone who would suggest doing something dumb as ruining a parade meant for war veterans.  If I remember correctly, the Army Cadet Motto is "ACER ACERPORI".  This translated means "As the maple, so the sappling."  Sounds like to me that the sappling‘s CIC‘s could use a massive kick in the head right now!!!!  Furthermore, the "sappling" edifies the "maple".  In this case, the maple being veterans who have survived combat.    I think that the cadets who are wimping out should reconsider who the hell is letting them wear their cap brasses on their berets, wedges, etc....  This is a massive insult indeed to every legion, regimental association, veterans‘ association and serving member in uniform. As for Colonel Hardy, he should rip the bars off his shoulders and shove them up his a*#!!!!! Queen‘s Commission my a*#!!!! Child soldiers were used in Afghanistan against the Soviets in the late 80‘s, where was his politically correct garbage then?!!!!!  It‘s because the Americans funded the Taliban through Pakistan to fight the Soviets by any means necessary!!!!!

-the patriot-  

 This is Colonel Hardy

  :crybaby:   :fifty: This is Colonel Hardy after talking  to a war veteran.  Any questions?!!!


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## the patriot (5 Jun 2001)

Further to my last post, I wonder what General Maurice Baril‘s daughter is thinking of all this.  She‘s a CIC Officer for the Army Cadets.  HMMMM........ I wonder!!!!!!

-the patriot-


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## bossi (5 Jun 2001)

CHECK-CHECK-CHECK

(patriot said "I think that the cadets who are wimping out should reconsider who the hell is letting them wear their cap brasses on their berets, wedges, etc.... ")

Frankly, I do not believe it‘s the cadets themselves who are wimping out.  Rather, I strongly suspect this is being forced down some throats by politically correct staff (remember - the expression "the sun never sets upon Ottawa" is only true because NDHQ drags it down ...)

The well-intentioned Minister of Foreign Affairs has signed Canada up to eliminate "child warriors" (i.e. machine-gun toting infants in Third World countries), without realising the domestic implications.  
On the other hand, somebody should have the gonads to stand up to him and firmly explain that the Canadian cadet organisation builds citizens, according to their raison d‘etre.


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## Soldier of Fortune (5 Jun 2001)

Cadets is a great way to motivate our future soldiers, I dont know what I would do with out Cadets and all the military things we do, its like my life! I cant wait till I can join the reserves! My child hood is just like Cog‘s, military stuff is obsesive(at least to me)


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## centurion (5 Jun 2001)

We have to agree 100% with bossi on this one. The poor little fellas (and gals) are nothing but pawns in the great scheme of things. None of them were consulted and even if they were, they would be bullied into the decision. The oprahfied teat sucker(s), read Col Hardy et al, are only using these kids as Pharoh built the pyramids. Using the toil and the backs of these innocents to further their own glory and immortality. By destroying the heritage and beliefs of these young people, the only thing left is the law of the land to believe in, right or wrong. As the maple, so the sapling indeed. In ten more years we will have naught but a child wing of the sitting politicos, a la Russian Children of the Red Guard. This will be the military heritage put upon them by the emperor of the north. Hardy and his pc **** slaps, will revel in the fact they bent and molded a generation. Servitude and abuse cannot last forever. The night of the long knives will materialize on a cold, snowy evening to smite the offenders of our real Canadian way of life. We can only hope to see it before our demise. Hardy is likley no more than a pompous civil servant who has only the CIL cadet time to count as his time in uniform, looking to have the GG give him the Order of Canada for his efforts. Unfortunately, the damage caused by these toxic constituents will take generations to undo. UGH, me go back to cave now, bottle spirits call.  :blotto:


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## the patriot (5 Jun 2001)

True enough, I did not mean to insult the Army Cadet movement!!  If the cadets feel strongly so, they should lobby their affiliated units to do something about this if at all possible!!!!  What I‘m beginning to see is that there are not enough former Regular Force or Reserve members within the CIC.  As a result, these civillian individuals who become CIC‘s end up doing some pretty rediculous things!!! 

-the patriot-


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## echo (6 Jun 2001)

to quote George Carlin:
"...the continued ‘puss‘ification of youths is distroying the very moral fabric of which western society is build upon...the idiots making these new bull**** laws,safety rules and ‘morals‘ are the same fools that
grew up during the 50‘s,60‘s,70‘s and 80‘s, when extreme PC babble was nearly non-existant.
Who the hell do these guys think they are saying that the children are too pious and wholesome to have any ‘fun‘..." 

mr carlin‘s actually talking about bicycle helmets and soft playground equiptment but the message still remains the same.
STOP WITH POLLITICAL CORRECTNESS,YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYBODY.

whoever‘s idea it was to drop the word "warrior" from a veterens parade, they honestly need a reality check or a kick in the ***  or SOMETHING. the word "warrior" has too rich a root in the cadet/veteren/reg/res f to be just "taken away and replaced" by another word.


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## the patriot (7 Jun 2001)

Just to make things worse, apparently a Cadet Commanding Officer made things pretty bad by threatening to pull his/her Cadet Corps. out of the Warriors‘ Day Parade.  

Note: Newspaper Article to Follow
****************************************************************************
June 7,2001
Vet Up In Arms Over Warriors‘ Day Name Change
By Allan Woods
The London Free Press

     London‘s Warriors‘ Day parade has been renamed, a move that has a city war vet fuming.
     "It‘s a military function and here‘s these jackasses trying to change things.  trying to rewrite history," 79-year-old Ed Halayko, a Second World War veteran, said of the new name - Veterans‘ Day parade.
     Halayko, chairperson of the Armed Forces Pensioners Association, decried the decision as politically correct "stupidity" meant to protect the image of the nation‘s 55,000 cadets.  He sent a letter of complaint to Defence Minister Art Eggleton and Heritage Minister Sheila Copps last week.
     "Will you kindly explain how Canada became a nation without her warriors in wars?" he asked her in the letter.
     London‘s Warrior‘s Day parade committee voted last month to change the name after the cadets allegedly threatened to pull their support from the event - to be held Sept. 8 at Western Fair - if the name wasn‘t changed.
     Cadet leaders defended the decision to change the name but said it had nothing to do with disassociating themselves from the veterans.
     "No one‘s trying to rewrite history," said Marian MacDonald, executive director of the Army Cadet League.
     "I believe the Department of National Defence (which initially proposed the name change) was concerned the cadets ... are being trained to be warriors.  They wanted to make it very clear that was not the case."
     Major Richard Trute, responsible for the 82 cadet corps in Southwestern Ontario, said the organization is essentially a youth movement.
     "Parents don‘t want their children to be warriors," he said.  "They have no combat skills.  Bottom line, the cadets are about fun."
     Committee member Mike Steele said a motion to change the name was raised by a cadet commanding officer who said the cadets might pull out of the parade if the name wasn‘t changed.
     But Trute, who was at the meeting denied threats were made.
     "It was done through a democratic process," he said.
     In Toronto, where the committee refused to change the parade‘s name, cadets will still participate but won‘t march with the veterans.
****************************************************************************
-the patriot-


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## bossi (7 Jun 2001)

Oh, goodness me ...
Major Richard Trute (whom I‘ve never met) claims "... bottom line, cadets are about fun".
Er, excuse me, Major - what happened to "citizenship", or is it too politically incorrect to ask you that?

As for Army Cadet League director Marion MacDonald‘s assertation that "no one‘s trying to rewrite history", ... 
Hmmm ... reminds me of the joke about "how can you tell when an Army Cadet League director (or CIL officer) isn‘t telling the whole truth ... ?"


My bottom line?  "Vigilamus pro te" shouldn‘t be a hollow motto.


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## Soldier of Fortune (7 Jun 2001)

They still couldn‘t call us child soldiers if we had marched in that parade! We joined cadets because we like to do military stuff,IT WAS OUR CHOICE TO JOIN!!!


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## the patriot (8 Jun 2001)

If  that is the case, then why do you not vocalize your opinion!!!  I know of quite a few soldiers and veterans that would love to pull regimental affiliation away from their various cadet corps. right now!!!!  What right does a pathetic little Cadet Commanding Officer have to take their cadet unit out of a parade for people that died so that they can wear their f*@king uniform and capbrass?!!!!!!!  They stabbed the very veterans that they edify in the back!!!!  I‘m sure that the various reserve and regular force units would love to pick up the slack from the Army Cadet units that WON‘T PARADE BECAUSE MUMMY AND DADDY ARE LITTLE HIPPIES THAT DO MUSHROOMS AND POT!!!!!  As supportive as I have been of the Army Cadet movement in other threads, at this point in time I am NOT very impressed whatsoever!!!!!!  If you honestly want to know what I‘m thinking this is what is on my mind!!!!  The parades were organized by the veterans for the veterans!!!!!  They have every right to name their parade what they want!!!  For heavens sakes..... what the hell do you little pukes fire at CLI Rifle Coach?!!!!!!!!!  Oh my God!!!!  Little Cadet Bloggins just fired a C7 automatic firearm that‘s used by the regular force to kill people!!!!!  Next thing you know, your parents won‘t let you go on the Cadet Para Course because it means that you‘re Airborne and you might kill your neighbour!!!!  Which means it will get cancelled and you can then start crying about crappy training!!!!  I‘ll stop now before the Army Cadet League of Canada starts taking the word "Army" out of its name and changes it to "Panzy Assed Ballerinas With Kiddie Combats and Army Surplus MK II Combat Boots"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Hopefully at the rate you cadets are going, you won‘t end up losing Blackdown in Borden!!!!  By the  way, CFB Borden is a military base......... Let me think about that one again!!!!!!  Oh yeah did I say Canadian Forces Base?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   OH NO!!! GUNS, SOLDIERS AND AMMUNITION!!!!!  WHAT THE F*&K ARE THEY DOING TO MY DAUGHTER!!!! THEY‘RE GOING TO TURN HER INTO A LESBIAN!!!!

  This is a Cadet Commanding Officer that thinks they‘re all that!!!!

  :mg:   :crybaby:   :sniper: This is the Cadet Commanding Officer at his/her Annual Inspection when the reviewing officer (most likely a veteran) pulls their regimental affiliation.

-the patriot-


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## JRMACDONALD (8 Jun 2001)

HEY "Patriot"- OH WOW that was an insightful and elluminating diatribe. I am impresssed!!!    still waiting for you "BONA FIDES"!!!!


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## RCA (8 Jun 2001)

Let me first state that I don‘t know anything about Warrior day parades because we don‘t have them out in my neck of the woods. But let me state that the cadets participte (more so then the Reg F or reserses) in Decoration Day to show their appreciation of veterens and parade en mass for Remembrance Day.

Next , I‘m getting tired of the "they died for our sins" line every time something like this comes up. Vets made the ultimate sacrifce for this country which we all appreciate, but its is taken to the point of if your not for them, your against them. Pure Bul***it.

As for your rhetoric, I have learned nothing about the issue because you didn‘t cloud your judgement with facts. For instanace who made the decision? and for under what reasoning? Before we can make a fully informed opinion we need to know these things. And if justified who to direct our dismay towards. Lets not use the shotgun approach.

From what I‘ve seen some people beleive in child warriors (quote"Child soldiers were used in Afghanistan against the Soviets in the late 80‘s, where was his politically correct garbage then?!!!!! It‘s because the Americans funded the Taliban through Pakistan to fight the Soviets by any means necessary") if the end justify the means. I thought our veterns fought against this. I for one get a real uncormfortable feeling when seeing a 12 yr old toting an AK47 that is bigger then he is and apprently knowing how to use it.

Next thing I pick up from the scant facts provided is that the cadets are still participating but only have reservations about the name. They are not against the vets parading or against vets themself. To me  (and again I state, I don‘t know much about the Warrior‘s parade) the is nothing derogatory or demeaning about calling a vet veteren as opposed to warrior. And let me play devil‘s advocate here - Does the term warrior in this case mean those that actually went overseas and were in an active theatre of war or does it mean all vets regardless of whether they were consripts who never left Canada‘s shores but were never the less in the Armed Services or Merchant Marine (also true warriors in my eyes)

Lastly, nothing is black and white, but usually shades of grey. If you don‘t think cadets have a leg to stand on read the thread to the cadets who went out tagging and were called baby killers etc. So image and preception are important. As to the Cadets motto, which maple are we talking about. Compromise and cooperation or my way or the highway. You decide.


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## bossi (8 Jun 2001)

Two more voices ...

Apology owed
Jim Lumsden, Letter to the Editor, The Ottawa Citizen 

Col. Rick Hardy, director of Canada‘s cadets, says the youth program is not a training camp for "child soldiers" and that sending them to march in a Warriors‘ Day parade sends the wrong message. He decries the use of child soldiers internationally, and he reasons that we cannot be seen to be promoting child warriors at home. 
Sir, the intention of the Warriors‘ Day parade was never to promote "child warriors." Rather, it is to honour our warriors for the service that they and their fallen comrades have rendered to Canada. 
Col. Hardy would do well to remember the words spoken by former U.S. president Ronald Wilson Reagan at Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia on Nov. 11, 1985: 
"It is, in a way, an odd thing to honour those who died in defence of our country in wars far away. The imagination plays a trick. We see these soldiers in our mind as old and wise. We see them as something like the Founding Fathers, grave and grey-haired. But most of them were boys when they died, they gave up two lives -- the one they were living and the one they would have lived. When they died, they gave up their chance to be husbands and fathers and grandfathers. They gave up their chance to be revered old men. They gave up everything for their country, for us. All we can do is remember." 
Our cadets have marched in Warriors‘ Day parades to remember and honour our "warriors" and to learn, in a practical way, of our proud military history. I have seen no evidence that any of them became "child soldiers." 
Shame on you, Col. Hardy, to have thought otherwise. You owe our warriors an apology. 
Jim Lumsden, 
Nepean 
++++++++
Parade won‘t turn cadets into ‘child warriors‘
William Barclay, as quoted by The Ottawa Citizen 

 The Canadian Press / Second World War and Korean war veteran Jan de Vries leads the 79th annual Warriors‘ Day parade last year in Toronto.
The decision by the Department of National Defence not to allow cadets to march with veterans in the Warriors‘ Day Parade at the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto unless the name is changed to Veterans‘ Day left me with a deep sense of regret. ("Bid to Drop ‘Warriors‘ Day‘ outrages veterans," June 5.) 
Apparently this decision is based on what would seem to be an unsubstantiated perception by some members of the department that a vast number of Canadians see cadets as "child warriors." 
As the Dominion president of the Royal Canadian Legion, I am well aware that the aims and objectives of the cadet movement in Canada are to promote leadership and citizenship. I am hard-pressed to see how anyone could perceive the training cadets receive as making them ready for war -- and its ultimate consequences. Rather, it makes them ready for life by teaching them self-discipline and the social skills needed to survive in the world that awaits them. 
Or is it just their association with the military that rankles a small minority? 
It is especially heartrending for our members to see cadets stopped from marching in what is, for all practical purposes, a remembrance activity. Will they be stopped from marching in Remembrance Day parades, Battle of Britain parades and others? 
I ask those in the defence department to back up their statements on "child warrior" perceptions with hard data from credible polls. What I am hearing from Canadians about the value of the cadet program is obviously not what the people in the department are hearing. 
Those involved in the cadet movement should also be speaking out against this move, lest they lose the moral and financial support given by the very veterans the department is insulting. 
Despite this foolishness, the Royal Canadian Legion will continue to provide its support to these fine young Canadians. 
William Barclay, 
Ottawa, 
Dominion president, 
Royal Canadian Legion


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## bossi (8 Jun 2001)

(posted by "Armoured Fist" in a different thread.  Re-attached to this thread by the moderator.)

Armoured Fist 
FNG 
Member # 347 
Rate Member 
  posted 08 June 2001 12:06                      
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I‘m guessing that if, hypothetically, we were invaded today, and the aggressor was violently destroyed and forced to surrender our and withdrawl from our soil, and lives were saved, not one person would ever think of changing a name of a parade. 
Let it be a deathly cold dark blacked out area with starving and freezing civillians helped by the warriors of this country, or a massive flood, or a city that is stopped by mother nature. 
Nobody dares say anything negative then, but when some idiot with too much time on his hands and who has never heard a shot fired in anger, or seen a fellow Canadian blackened by frostbite, decides that a word sends the wrong message or that some 3rd world country might be able to pick up a newspaper and say, "Canada has child soldier too" 
Excuse me while I laugh at his ignorance. Who would possibly think that Canada has child warriors. 
--------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2 | From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Jun 2001)

> Excuse me while I laugh at his ignorance. Who would possibly think that Canada has child warriors.



Was that not the whole point of the exercise?  Not to laugh at the ignorance of others, but to show sensitivity towards it?  Better to show tolerance than to laugh at someone.  Tolerance, respect and understanding is a two way street.

If Canada is making as firm a stand against "child warriors" as they are against land mines, then perhaps they have a point that we can‘t be perceived as promoting the same ideas that we are do dead set against.

Obviously, our Army Cadets are not being trained as first line combat troops - in say the manner of the Hitler Youth Division in WW II, or the current practice in other parts of the world today.  I think we can all agree that that is a good thing.

I personally have never heard of Warrior‘s Day - it is not something we have out here in Alberta (that I am aware of) and so it is not a Canadian tradition being broken - sounds like a localized event to me (Ontario isn‘t the be all and end all of "Canadian culture" don‘t forget.)

Warrior is kind of an inappropriate word anyway; I always think of Native warriors or Zulu warriors.  Perhaps a better title would be "Soldier‘s Day Parade" - that encompasses everyone -  current serving members and veterans all.  A Soldier does his job in peace and war alike; and the number of blue berets we have contributed over the years is pretty good evidence that Canadians are soldiers - not just warriors.


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## bossi (12 Jun 2001)

Here‘s some more grist for the mill:

Tuesday, 12 June, 2001, 00:45 GMT 01:45 UK 
UK ‘shamed‘ over teenage soldiers

By the BBC‘s Greg Barrow 
Britain has been criticised in a new report which identifies countries that routinely recruit child soldiers. 

The Child Soldiers Global Report, released on Tuesday, identifies the UK Government as the only country in Europe that still recruits 16-year-olds, and routinely sends soldiers as young as 17 into battle. 

The report goes on to name and shame countries which it says are guilty of recruiting child soldiers under the age of 18. 

Most of the worst abuses are found in Africa and Asia. 

But groups campaigning against the deployment of child soldiers say their work would be made easier if Britain set an example to the rest of the world and raised its recruitment age. 

Children as young as 10 are recruited for civil wars in Africa

The country finds itself in the company of African nations like Sierra Leone and Sudan for bringing "children" into the ranks of the armed forces. 

The report also notes that Britain is almost alone among industrialised nations in recruiting 16-year-olds. 

Although new recruits do not immediately go into combat, 17-year-olds have served in the Falklands conflict and during the Gulf War. 

So far there is little sign of any change in the British Army. 

Increase in young soldiers 

The report notes that recruitment of 16- and 17-year-olds is actually increasing at a time when the British Army is finding it difficult to fill its ranks with older recruits. 

It says aggressive advertising campaigns and recruitment drives have helped boost the ranks of young soldiers. 

Britain was criticised on the same issue at a European conference in Berlin in 1999. 

The Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers - an international coalition of pressure groups - was seeking to raise the minimum age for recruiting and participating in armed conflict to 18. 

Young people in the UK cannot drink or vote before they turn 18, and in most police forces in the UK they people cannot serve before they are 21.


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