# The viability of a massive CF intranet



## Lethbridge U (22 Oct 2004)

I'm doing a presentation in one of my management classes on the topic of intranets and I came across this article which discussed the launch of the largest intranet in the world (the US army) Apparently every soldier, vetran, and brass alike can have their own email and possibly a website. There is also huge amounts of information that a soldier can access any where in the world. What do you think the viability is of the CF have a similar intranet. I just think it's a great idea. 
check out the link:  www.wired.com/news/technology/0%2C1282%2C48183%2C00.html


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## Inch (22 Oct 2004)

Good idea, that's why we've had it for years. It's called the Defence Wide Area Network (DWAN for short), there's also the Defense Information Network (DIN). I think they're one in the same, it just depends on who you're talking to and what they call it. Every CF member, including civilians has access to the DWAN email and DWAN sites. Most units have their own little part of the DWAN where you can find unit information.  It's a protected network, not secret or top secret, but a whole lot more secure than the Internet.

Cheers


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Oct 2004)

Baseline is a huge pain in the ass though -everytime I log in (like, once a week as a reservist), I go through 50 startup screens and downloads, and as often as not the damn computer shuts itself off and restarts to enable some stupid download or another.  

I believe this is so that everyone has the same software configurations but my question is - is that really necessary?


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Oct 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> Good idea, that's why we've had it for years. It's called the Defence Wide Area Network (DWAN for short), there's also the Defense Information Network (DIN). I think they're one in the same, it just depends on who you're talking to and what they call it. Every CF member, including civilians has access to the DWAN email and DWAN sites. Most units have their own little part of the DWAN where you can find unit information.   It's a protected network, not secret or top secret, but a whole lot more secure than the Internet.
> 
> Cheers



Only downside is trying access military email from home - is there a way to do it?  So far everyone tells me no.  That is the only advantage of having stuff off the DIN as well, such as unofficial company/battery/squadron websites.


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## Inch (22 Oct 2004)

The updates are mostly for virus protection, we've been told to log off everyday and relogin in the morning to make sure all required updates get installed.

To my knowledge, there's no way to get your email from home.

Cheers


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 Oct 2004)

Its outlook express so there may be away.  I'm not aware of one though.


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## Gayson (22 Oct 2004)

I havent used this service before, if it is outlook express it could be possible to log in from home.

Next time you use it with outlook go into the mail properties and get the POP3 and SMTP server's.  Also you will need to know the login name and password that outlook has been using to get your email.

When you get back home enter these bits of info into whatever email software you use and is should work, that is unless the intranet is specifically set to not allow people to access it from outside unless through a specific connection (i.e preset ip addresses).


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## Inch (22 Oct 2004)

It's not Outlook express, it's just Outlook, and if you can't get intranet sites from home, you can't get DWAN email either.


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 Oct 2004)

Sorry my bad.  Could have sworn it was outlook express.


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Oct 2004)

No, it makes sense for security reasons that we can't do it at home.  It's too bad, because most of my mail is related to the regimental website - ie public information.  I have my personal email address as the contact info for our unofficial regimental website - would look more professional to have my military email addie there, but checking it once a week or every two weeks would be even more unprofessional, so I guess I'll go with what I got.

If they do upgrade the system someday, maybe they can offer more security options, and allow internet access to emails specifically encoded as not Protected by the sender.


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## 291er (22 Oct 2004)

There is one way I believe, it's called a DEBBS acct or something.  They only grant them in special cases I think.....but they are web accessible.


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## AmmoTech90 (22 Oct 2004)

You can get dail up DWAN/DIN access but you need a good reason, ie posted outside of Canada, or in Canada in a place that does not have an IT section that can administer a server for your area.

Could you set up rules in Outlook that all incoming mail is forwarded to your account at home?

As far as a home DND mail system there is DEBBS and IMS Visualmail, I think they work off the same system but DEBBS was introduced for the NCR then IMS rolled out for everyone else (not sure on that).  Visualmail is a web-based email you can access pretty much anywhere but it is a seperate address from your Outlook mail so you can't view that mailbox at home.


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## Inch (22 Oct 2004)

We had Air Force wide IT briefings that stated specifically that your DWAN mail should not be forwarded to your home address for security reasons. I don't remember why exactly, I do remember we were told not to do it.

Cheers


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Oct 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> We had Air Force wide IT briefings that stated specifically that your DWAN mail should not be forwarded to your home address for security reasons. I don't remember why exactly, I do remember we were told not to do it.
> 
> Cheers



It makes sense.  If someone pulls my name off the DND email list by accident and sends sensitive stuff thinking it is going to someone else, it shouldn't be going to a civvie email account.   Maybe not a big deal in my case, but how many "WO M Smith" are there, eh....I've sent stuff to the "wrong" Captain Alden before, for example.


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## pbi (22 Oct 2004)

I'm not much of a techno-geek, but here's  couple of observations:

-As a Res CBG, with key appts being Class A, we regularly fwd e-mails to home adresses, and receive communications from same. Security is not usually an issue in routine comms, but if it is we can use voice line; and

-due to our vast geographic dispersion(Prnce Albert SK to Thunder Bay ON), we have issued several key appts with the equivalent of Ethernet cards that will let them log in from home and read e-mail. The only problem with it is the slowness, which can be excruciating.

As for the "_great new US idea_"-I agree with Inch: we're well on in that area and have been for years. Actually, considering our size, we do pretty well in the CIS field: certainly no other country of comparable size comes close, as far as I know. Cheers.


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## ggranatstein (23 Oct 2004)

Actually, there is a commonly used way to get your army email at home. It is technically open to anyone, BUT, it is usually only given to officers and very senior NCOs. 

It is called a DVPNI account and you need a military laptop or computer to get on. So... if you have access to a laptop, you can check your email at home. Unfortunately, it's only dial-up speed but they are working on a secure broadband way for people to get access. It should be out in the next 20 years.   

The OSSI at your unit should be able to get you the proper form to fill out to get such an account, if I am not mistaken.


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## Michael Dorosh (23 Oct 2004)

Habitant said:
			
		

> Actually, there is a commonly used way to get your army email at home. It is technically open to anyone, BUT, it is usually only given to officers and very senior NCOs.
> 
> It is called a DVPNI account and you need a military laptop or computer to get on. So... if you have access to a laptop, you can check your email at home. Unfortunately, it's only dial-up speed but they are working on a secure broadband way for people to get access. It should be out in the next 20 years.
> 
> The OSSI at your unit should be able to get you the proper form to fill out to get such an account, if I am not mistaken.



LOL

I guess I'm set, just as soon as the Army starts issuing laptops to corporals, then.


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## Goober (23 Oct 2004)

For those of you who like to see things in a tangible form, here is a rudimentary (very rudimentray) drawing I've done of the military intranet with relation to the Internet.

http://users.eastlink.ca/~joeperry/din.jpg

Note: VPN stands for Virtual Private Network, and its a way to securely access intranets, as there can be strong encryption protocols in place protecting the data from network sniffers.


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## jfladeroute (23 Oct 2004)

Habitant said:
			
		

> Actually, there is a commonly used way to get your army email at home. It is technically open to anyone, BUT, it is usually only given to officers and very senior NCOs.
> It is called a DVPNI account and you need a military laptop or computer to get on.



There's actually a far easier way, that could be implemented overnight for anyone.

Outlook can be set to forward copies of your email - technically, this could be set to forward to any valid email account, but DND has chosen to block forwarding to outside addresses. When I questioned why this was the case, I got the standard runarounds: 

- it's a security risk (although they could not specify why that would be the case);
- it could spread viruses (although in order to do that our email servers would already be infected, so the risk would be entirely for the home system, not DND);
and the final reason - because we said so.  ;D

I've used the workaround that I forward my email to someone else in my workplace who then manually forwards it to my home account. Frankly, the choice to block the ability to have this automated is just plain silly. Remove the artifical restriction, and anyone could access their email at home; no need for VPN, laptops or any additional expense.


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## AmmoTech90 (23 Oct 2004)

I find it really odd that you can send and receive email to and from outside address from Outlook manually, but you can't set it up a rule to do it.

Oh well, should expect that, found out that if I wanted a USB powered cup warmer it would have to go through sigs because its attached to a PC...


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## Inch (23 Oct 2004)

I think the idea is that if you do it manually, you know what's being sent. If it's automatic, you don't know what's being sent. Keep in mind that posting messages, course loading messages, etc are sent via email and they're all Protected A documents because of the service number. I think it makes perfect sense that we can't set it up to automatically forward that kind of stuff to an unsecure computer.

Just my $0.02

Cheers


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## Korus (23 Oct 2004)

> I guess I'm set, just as soon as the Army starts issuing laptops to corporals, then.



Join INT..  ;D

Even if you set up a rule for e-mail forwarding via outlook (not via the actual e-mail server), don't you still have to physically open outlook (or at least log into your DIN account) before it will forward these e-mails? 

I know it's a pain for me, because I have several important e-mails I need to attend to in my DIN account, but I'm only parading at the home unit every other week or so at the moment (I'm on a driver wheeled at a different armouries)


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## bossi (24 Oct 2004)

re: e-mail at home

I realise there's a move afoot to get rid of it, but ... sometimes reality doesn't perfectly match what some people would like it to be ...

For those occasions when you can't have access to a DND computer, but need to receive/send e-mails for military-related purposes ... there's "IMS Visual Mail":
https://imsvisualmail.dnd.ca/eng/index.htm

In layman's terms, it's kinda like "military hotmail" - you can access from anywhere, instead of only from DND terminals (extremely useful for CCPLO's and CIMIC, especially during dom ops).  And, it's also much cheaper than issuing EVERYBODY with a DND computer ...


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## Acorn (24 Oct 2004)

~RoKo~ said:
			
		

> Join INT..   ;D



Int Cpls get issued laptops? Man, I really missed out!

Acorn


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## pbi (24 Oct 2004)

bossi:


			
				bossi said:
			
		

> re: e-mail at home
> 
> I realise there's a move afoot to get rid of it, but ... sometimes reality doesn't perfectly match what some people would like it to be ...
> 
> ...



What do you mean "there's a move afoot.." Who would be doing this, and why? Perhaps it makes sense in the NDHQ environmnt where everybody lives within 30 minutes of the HQ, but as I explained in our Bde we could have key appointments living all over our Bde AO, and we also travel quite a bit, so being able to access e-mail away from a CF termina important for us. Cheers.


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## bossi (24 Oct 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> What do you mean "there's a move afoot.." Who would be doing this, and why? Perhaps it makes sense in the NDHQ environmnt where everybody lives within 30 minutes of the HQ, but as I explained in our Bde we could have key appointments living all over our Bde AO, and we also travel quite a bit, so being able to access e-mail away from a CF termina important for us. Cheers.



Come on now - don't encourage me ... I'm trying to be a good boy (... for a change ...).
Certain people think that there is no need for IMS Visual Mail - I'm struggling to avoid slagging them in public, since that will only get their hackles up ... so, I'm trying - oh, so hard - to try and focus on the continuing, real, operational requirements for this service (i.e. honey, vinegar - you know the shtick ...).

Obviously, I'm way too far down the food chain to have any real effect, but ... hope springs eternal.
Within the system, I've documented the REQUIREMENT for it.
However, it's like so many things ... 
There's probably a general somewhere who would recognise and agree, but ... first it has to get by all those majors who think they're oh, so much smarter ...
("... must ... control ... fist ... of ... death ...")


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## pbi (24 Oct 2004)

Ahhhh-the cyberwienies? _The Uebergeeken_?Those Who Know Best For All? If it doesn't matter in NDHQ: it doesn't matter? Is that what you'r subtly trying to suggest?


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## bossi (24 Oct 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> Ahhhh-the cyberwienies? _The Uebergeeken_?Those Who Know Best For All? If it doesn't matter in NDHQ: it doesn't matter? Is that what you'r subtly trying to suggest?



(yes - a la Dilbert's "Mordac, Preventer Of Knowledge/Information Technology" ...)

... mmmmuuuussstttt ... ccccconnntttrrrolll ... fffiiiissstttt ... oofffff ... ddddddddeeaatthh ...


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## Spr.Earl (24 Oct 2004)

ROFMAO  ;D
I can't believe how people can get so upset over the internet/intrenet etc.
I still don't have DND email addy as I refuse to use it as 90% of the mail is rubbish as I have witnessed from fellow members in box's.

At home we first got on line some time in 96 and I must admit I got quite addicted to it after coming home in 97 and it got worse when I found out I could play games then all of a sudden I had to use a computer at work to do the daily log,daily fuel reports,machinery reports etc.

I hate the F'n thing as it has created more paper work now than before when we did everything by long hand also it waste's paper!!

Now I only come on line to have a look see here and play the odd game .

I'd hate to see what would happen if all of a sudden if  it all went down!


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## pbi (24 Oct 2004)

Spr.Earl said:
			
		

> ROFMAO ;D
> I can't believe how people can get so upset over the internet/intrenet etc.
> I still don't have DND email addy as I refuse to use it as 90% of the mail is rubbish as I have witnessed from fellow members in box's.


 I guess it depends on your situation. As I mentioned above, because we are so dispersed in 38 CBG we find it useful, especially being able to send stuff to people's homes or offices. As COS, I can turn around an issue with a unit CO much faster that way than waiting for them to come in to the Armoury, or sending them a letter, or trying to catch them on the telephone. Most of our COs have given us their home and work e-mails, which makes things easier for us to communicate with them. I do agree that there is a lot of rubbish on the net: this is not the fault of the system but of the people who send rubbish. Cheers.


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## Spr.Earl (24 Oct 2004)

I see you point but at my level I have no need and my Boss just phone's me or just sends me via other means.
My point was those who are complaining are at my level yet I bet I'am above thier level


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## Korus (25 Oct 2004)

> Int Cpls get issued laptops? Man, I really missed out!



To be fair, I've only been issued laptops on course, when we need them to do a fair ammount of writing for country studies, etc.. Or for the common evening AFV recognition study groups, when we're trying to memorize sick ammounts of kit. Good times, eh?  ;D


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## garb811 (25 Oct 2004)

Michael:  Most ISPs provide email addresses when you have them host a website so why not get a slick "webmaster@calgaryhighlanders.com" as a solution?  Looks professional, solves the problem and it's easily transferable to a permanent webmaster, if/when one is found.


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## Acorn (25 Oct 2004)

~RoKo~ said:
			
		

> To be fair, I've only been issued laptops on course, when we need them to do a fair ammount of writing for country studies, etc.. Or for the common evening AFV recognition study groups, when we're trying to memorize sick ammounts of kit. Good times, eh?   ;D



We made due with communal desktops and <gasp> paper books of recognition photos (actually, my 5A included _*typing*_, not keyboarding). But then, I guess I qualify as near-Jurassic. To be fair, the trade is much more literate in depth than it used to be.

Acorn


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## Scratch_043 (26 Oct 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> No, it makes sense for security reasons that we can't do it at home. It's too bad, because most of my mail is related to the regimental website - ie public information. I have my personal email address as the contact info for our unofficial regimental website - would look more professional to have my military email addie there, but checking it once a week or every two weeks would be even more unprofessional, so I guess I'll go with what I got.
> 
> If they do upgrade the system someday, maybe they can offer more security options, and allow internet access to emails specifically encoded as not Protected by the sender.


Michael,one thing that you could do is to get a seperate address for the mail related to the regimental website, and call it something like "name of Regiment@gmail.com" or something. if you need an invite to use gmail, PM me another email, and I can send you the invite.

Cheers,
Nicholas P. Cressman


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