# Another Question



## GForce (10 Dec 2003)

I think more people would sign up for the Canadian Forces if commericals or advertisements shed more light on where to actually go or recieve training I know lots of people who are interested but just dont have the time to research.. i‘m not saying lets bulk up on propaganda but let‘s atleast motivate people a little :/


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## Ruthless4Life (10 Dec 2003)

Those cost $. 

Government don‘t like spending.


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## patrick666 (10 Dec 2003)

Also, have you ever seen Canadian filmography?

Watched one of those apalling WHMIS informational videos? *shudders*


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## meni0n (10 Dec 2003)

Videos at the recruiting centers are outdated.


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## GForce (12 Dec 2003)

Seem to be working for other countries


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## 311 (12 Dec 2003)

I remember back when I was a potential recruit watching a recruit video. It was like they took some student from high school and made him produce it. This officer would talk, then stop and the camera angle would change and then the  officer would turn around, like it was dynamic or something. Plus when it referd to the Germans as trouble ahead... jk. The most effective ad i‘ve seen from our military is the navy ad you see before a movie starts. Maybe the military should make one of those. 

Some propaganda would be great to. I mean give us something to be proud of. Everytime the media talks about us, it‘s always negative.


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## winchable (12 Dec 2003)

Propaganda is a beautiful thing if it‘s used properly, in this case it could be used properly and should!
Not brainwashing, although some of that wouldn‘t hurt either (if i were king...)


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## Enzo (12 Dec 2003)

You guys want recruitment advertising? How about "Top Gun" "Navy Seals" or "Black Hawk Down." Works for the Yanks.


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## Slim (13 Dec 2003)

Ha! Enzo you rock! Remember when TOP GUN came out...U.S. Naval reruiting went up 25%!!! People even started to wear the pilot coat with the fur coller!
The only movie I‘ve ever seen about the Canadian Forces (after WWII) was this made for TV thing about an infantry platoon leader (PPCLI) in a fictional part of Yugo called Krasda, Krasna something like that ( Someone help me out!) 
Anyway it was o.k. but not the, Ridley Scott directed, heart stopper that BHD was!
Maybe we should start some POSATIVE propaganda...What do the PAFO‘s do. Aren‘t they supposed to spin doctor stuff!?
     :warstory:


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## winchable (13 Dec 2003)

Yeah I mean positive propaganda of course, but anything that will drive up recruiting numbers is positive I suppose.
Actually I would really like to see a historical action/drama that is about a Canadian war moment, there are alot of them.
Any suggestions?


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## Ruthless4Life (13 Dec 2003)

Well, propaganda costs money, and the government doesn‘t seem want to spend it.

Heck, the PM needs to appoint a "Minister of Enlightenment and Propaganda."


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## MP 811 (13 Dec 2003)

That movie Slim was taling about is called "King of Krasna".  Not a bad movie at all.


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## Slim (13 Dec 2003)

I‘ve got it on tape...You‘re all welcome to come over and watch it!
It stars Gabriel Hogan as Lt Bobby Danko and Jeremy somebody or other as the pioneer sgt (name forgotten).
It was filmed just north of Ottawa...the RCD provided all the vehs and armour.


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## Enzo (19 Dec 2003)

That wasn‘t a bad flick. You‘ll find it under the title "Peacekeepers" (1997). It wasn‘t bad all things considered - low budget by US standards, had many of the stereotypes, etc...

Try this one, "Going Home" (1987). Nicholas Campbell as Cpl. Brill. A shellshocked sniper in WW1. The flick has 3 parts. Flashbacks to horror of no mans land, a love story with an English girl, and finally, the reason the film was made. This flick was set in Wales in 1919. Ringing any bells?

 http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSFeatures0105/02_soldiers-cp.html 

This is only one example. Do further research on your own as to moments such as this. You won‘t find them on any regimental battle honours.

Honestly, I can‘t think of positive Canadian War movies with a contemporary theme. Going back a little, there‘s "The Devils Brigade" (1968). There‘s a good one. Obviously filmed in the 60‘s (this was common though, accuracy of hairstyles, sets and clothing wasn‘t a priority, you see this in many flicks of the period) the inaccuracies are laughable now. The kilted Canadians arriving with the Bagpipes proudly playing. The best of the best of the Canadian regiments paired up with criminals and louts. The worst of the American military. (Showing that their worst are equal to our best? Nice touch) Not exactly historically accurate.

"Patlabor 2" (anime, 1990) has a great line when prototype mech vehicles are being decimated by infantry with armour support in South East Asia circa 2000.

"Stand by, Canadian peacekeepers are enroute."

Sums that one up as to how we‘re viewed, I thought it was kind of cool.

You get the idea. Anyone think of any other films that highlight Canadian Combat? Usually we‘re supporting players in US films. Even the Aussies have their films "Breaker Morant", "Gallipolli". Ok, not exactly pro war movies, but at least their taking a stance as to their military heritage. They don‘t appreciate being fodder. "Attack Force Z" highlighted ANZAC special forces in WW2 - and was a Mel Gibson vehicle, ‘nuff said.

All countried engage in some form of propaganda in one form or another. The recruiting videos are laughable. What film school reject from NFB was responsilbe for those? Commercials before the movie in a theatre? Why not make a movie and get some return for it. I‘m not kidding when I implied that "BlackHawk Down" is a tool for recruitment. Ridley Scott may not intend for it to be so, but I have lived in the US since that film came out and it‘s on the list of films mentioned by people when they imagine "how cool" combat is and how much they‘d like to participate. I have a US friend who enrolled in the Army with "BHD" and "Socom: Navy SEALS" on his mind.

The Pentagon has a company set up in Hollywood and they are actively working with Hollywood (you want to make a military themed movie and have realism? We have the bases, vehicles and personnel. It‘s basically an exercise when you want to film combat. Here‘s what we want in return, etc...) They are also active in the video game market.

 http://www.americasarmy.com/ 

Anyone feel like trying out for the US armed forces? You submit your qualifications to the military as you play. It‘s a part of their recruitment. 21st century anyone?

What is our military doing? I saw one decent commercial, but it wasn‘t appropriate. I don‘t know of many people who enjoy commercials before a film. I already paid to get in. The commercial itself showed a bit of this and that. Young people looking hard doing interesting things. I suppose, but I still had to explain to my friends what each element was and answer questions as they are uninitiated and didn‘t "get" it. Contrast to American commercials. "Hi, we‘ll train you well, to blow **** up." Keeping it simple, gotta love those Yanks eh?

Telefilm Canada (I could be mistaken about the agency title, apologies if I‘m incorrect) is attempting to break into mainstream movies. They want to increase Canadian content films that are actually watched (ie. $$$)) as opposed to ending up on the "Best Foreign Film list" at the Oscars. "Foolproof" (2003) was their first attempt. They advertised it, and it wasn‘t the worst movie. But it still didn‘t come together. How about a movie about the PPCLI kicking *** in Afghanistan last year? It‘s going to be made eventually, I‘d prefer to see it with troops sporting a Maple Leaf, than the Star Spangled Banner.

Thoughts?


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## Marauder (20 Dec 2003)

Not sure if anyone ever notices it, but I have *never* seen a CF ad that had people actually carrying a *weapon*. The closest thing ever shown in the field is that retarded scene where a couple of troops in balmorals, including the ubiquitous female, are running through a friggin‘ puddle with a smile plasted on their face that is so fake that they make Pam Anderson‘s jugs appear to be God-given. Contrast that to the American ad that shows some 10th SFG(A) troops all kitted out with Artic kit and tricked out M4s prominently displayed. Those guys actually have their warface on, too. That‘s an ad that troops and civvies can both look at and go "Now that‘s F#CKIN‘ cool". It‘s just one more small way that the Forces marginalize ourselves to lick Liberal boot. We‘re an unarmed society, so we can only publicly display our Forces as unarmed to keep the mindless sheep happy and secure in their blissful ignorance.



> Honestly, I can‘t think of positive Canadian War movies with a contemporary theme. Going back a little, there‘s "The Devils Brigade" (1968). There‘s a good one. Obviously filmed in the 60‘s (this was common though, accuracy of hairstyles, sets and clothing wasn‘t a priority, you see this in many flicks of the period) the inaccuracies are laughable now. The kilted Canadians arriving with the Bagpipes proudly playing.


Man, that brings back my second best memory of QL2/3. We had just got back from our first stint in the field at Borden, and were back in Meaford (hook-tooy). I think it was a Saturday and everyone was pretty wrung out and downtrodden. After supper, our marching NCO marched us over to the classrooms. There was a TV in front, and then the Crse O (WO K, wherever you are I still respect the **** out of you) came in and told us he knew we were all a little messed up, and basically gave us a pep talk. Towards the end he tells us that Canadian soldiers are always proud, and have good reason to be. He then proceeded to show that clip of the the Canadians marching down that hill with the pipes ablazing. Knowing that the unit I was going to was a Highland unit, I **** near had to wipe my eye, to see that scene so full of pride and panache. We all marched back to the tentline with a little more pride and "hooah" after that. To this day whenever I‘m out in the field soaked and frozen and sleepf&cked, I always remember that and remind myself it‘s all about driving on. Awesome scene.


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## Spr.Earl (20 Dec 2003)

Yup we do have a prob blowing our own trumpet Eh?

 I think a Bio Movie of Smokey Smith would be a good one for starter‘s!


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## Ruthless4Life (20 Dec 2003)

Personally, I think the best bet is for the government to sponsor a high-budget war movie involving Canadian soldiers, in an event well-known enough that the movie can be shown in theatres worldwide, so the government can revenue from the movie as well as boost the number of recruits and the morale of the Canadian people. But I seriously doubt this will ever happen.


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## Slim (25 Dec 2003)

I think that it‘s a great idea...specialy now that we have all the jammy pers kit! Afganistan would be a great venue, epecially the sniper (Canadian) who wacked a terrorist at 2300 meters! And the guy wasn‘t even JTF!
When I read that I smiled for three days straight.
  :evil:


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## Enzo (26 Dec 2003)

Logistics is the problem. The Yanks have the personnel to spare for filming in neutral countries such as Morocco for BHD. We don‘t. Filming in Afghanistan isn‘t safe as of yet and the troops there can‘t be spared. Unless they got really tricky. Film the guys on the ground now for all of the background, etc... Then take 50 guys over to a neighbouring area and film the cave scenes there, etc... The Yanks will still have to assist w/ their equipment for accuracy.

I‘m thinking Medak Pocket may be a better start. It happened during a Peacekeeping operation. Filming can be in Canada to keep costs down with some exteriors in Europe. Reserve troops and equipment can be used with minimal Yank involvement. And the actual fight wasn‘t a bad one for Canada. When all was said and done, we came out on top. That can be highlighted easily. The faults of command and political interference could be included also. Add to the drama, etc... The question is one of interest. Do they want to highlight anything from these times which would call into question decisions of the government and the command/equipment inefficiencies which plague the CF?

Anyone know how to get interest going in such a production? Let‘s call Telefilm.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Dec 2003)

No, the problem is 35 million Canadians whining and crying that we don‘t have any decent movies made about us, and no one doing anything about it.

No resources?  Bull****; we paid 1.6 million dollars for "Voice of Fire" for the national gallery - it was a painting on three coloured stripes.

You are forgetting the DIEPPE miniseries, which was quite good, and the HEROES OF THE VICTORIA CROSS TV show that was shot in Dundurn (a friend of mine played Smokey Smith, and you will see my name in the credits, ahem, for loaning some uniforms).

PEACEKEEPERS was made with the full co-operation of the CF,despite the fact it depicted one soldier committing suicide, and another Warrant Officer as a coward.  Peter Worthington was amazed at DND for allowing this to go forward, I agree with him that it was a great move.  The US military only supports movies in which their forces look squeaky clean.

Look at COURAGE UNDER FIRE - the US Army withdrew its support early on (the M1 Abrams tanks that Denzel Washington leads into battles are actually mockups based on British Challengers, hard to believe but true).

So how many of you have written a screenplay?  Kind of hard to make movies until someone comes up with a screenplay.  Then again, it‘s far easier to whine about how we don‘t have any resources and make other phoney excuses.

Until someone with some passion comes forward and gets some sponsorship for historical film projects, nothing will happen.  Forget about the government, they don‘t care - go write to Fred Mannix, one of the richest men in Canada whose personal worth is measured in the billions of dollars and who not only was once honourary colonel of the Calgary Highlanders but still sits on committees dealing with the future of the Reserves in Canada.

So, who wants to complain, and who wants to step forward and do something about it?

PEACEKEEPERS got made because someone sat down, interviewed the real deal (peacekeeping vets), wrote a screenplay, and went from there.  DND supported it because it was a good script and served their interests.

What‘s stopping the rest of you?


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## westernarmymember (26 Dec 2003)

Because over the years we have become known as "the world‘s peacekeepers", the Canadian public does not have the stomach for seeing our soldiers in an offensive posture. I don‘t believe anything like you are discussing will ever happen. We are stuck being "those friendlt Canadians".


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Dec 2003)

> Originally posted by Shania Twain Fan:
> [qb] Because over the years we have become known as "the world‘s peacekeepers", the Canadian public does not have the stomach for seeing our soldiers in an offensive posture. I don‘t believe anything like you are discussing will ever happen. We are stuck being "those friendlt Canadians". [/qb]


And that‘s just plain retarded, and another phony excuse.  Are you basing this on extensive personal research, or is this just parroting the party line in the media these days?

I think most Canadians know of relatives that flew bomber missions over Europe, served in the Atlantic, or fought with the Army in Korea or WW II.  Canadians are pretty hardy, and underlying support for the military may seem low, but generally isn‘t when push comes to shove.

It‘s like being a Flames fan, when they start winning,everyone comes out of the woodwork, but when they‘re losing, no one seems to know who the Flames are.


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## Art Johnson (26 Dec 2003)

I believe there is movie being made about the Argyl & Sutherland Highlanders of Canada.  I‘m not sure but I believe the tentative Title is Hill 195. Unfortunately I don‘t have all my records to hand here in Florida but it is being produced by a Toronto Production company.


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## Enzo (26 Dec 2003)

First, I‘m not a screenwriter. But I play one on tv   

WW2, the good war for us eh. WW2 productions have increased costs due to finding/creating the equipment. But it‘s a start. As for Korea, many Canadians don‘t quite know of the participation in that one, so another candidate for a flick.

So Mikey, lead from the front buds, get on that script eh.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Dec 2003)

I‘m not the one crying about the lack of movies.  I‘ve done my bit; I was one of about 100 cadre who trained the extras for LEGENDS OF THE FALL - plus I get a tiny bit of screen time for my troubles, and I‘ve published three references for anyone who cares to bone up on Canadian uniforms in WW II and Korea.  Costume designers, feel free to email me or post to my own forum.

Considering nobody has mentioned THE WARS, DIEPPE, EXECUTION (based on McDougall‘s book about the PPCLI in Italy and based loosely on the real life story of the execution of Private Pringle of the Hasty P‘s) et al, it would seem any effort on mine or anyone‘s part would be a waste of time, given the complete lack of memory or appreciation of past efforts.

And WW II kit is a dime a dozen - just ask me what I got paid for HEROES OF THE VICTORIA CROSS.

And with CGI, the equipment isn‘t even an issue these days, not to mention the worldwide network of MV collectors, etc.

So it isn‘t a lack of resources (poor, poor Canadians!), it‘s a lack of will.

Art - looking forward to hearing more about Pt. 195; lord, this isn‘t another Canadian Army disaster movie, is it?  Toronto film-makers stick it to poor Hamilton regiment?


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## Slim (27 Dec 2003)

I, for one, would love to see a contemporary movie about Canadian soldiers. A real good one, up to date and well produced!
As for writing a screen play...well I think we need a professional writer and/or screen writer to tackle that. ( I recently attempted a book and had it tossed back at me with no takers.)
If anyone on this forum knows of someone in the right position for such an undertaking I will do what ever I can to help something like that get off the ground. And I‘m quite sure that just about everyone else here would as well.

I hope it happens!


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## Enzo (27 Dec 2003)

Someone contact Scott Taylor @ Esprit de Corps. He loves the media spotlight and I assume he has connections to the entertainment industry. I can see him now, "I remember when I first got off plane that cold winter morning..."   

Only one stipulation. Dale Dye should be the guy to train the actors. As long as there is a few Canadian Technical Advisors, etc...


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