# More $$ for RMC students...?



## Drummie (16 Mar 2006)

Well, the latest and biggest hype going around the college today goes as follows:

Supposedly, if one was in the Res. F before becoming an OCdt and transfering to Reg. F to come to RMC, one is now entitled to the balance of money one would have made if still a reservist. 
It supposedly all started with a 1st year who found this amazing clause. He was apparently in the reserves for 4 days before transfering to Reg F, and now here at RMC, he's supposed to (if not already gotten) get a cheque of approx $20, 000 or close to it. The avg. amt's I heard ppl getting is around the $30, 000 range, but and 4th year who lives downstairs from me was a MCpl in Res, and now he;s in 4th year, so with the retroactivity, he's calcuated to rcv. approx. $100,000, while a 3rd year near him is rcving around $85, 000. 
While I don't blame anyone for happily accpeting the money ,b.c who wouldn't,  some of us find it a little odd. 
The theory is as a member of the CF, your pay should never be decreased (unless demoted), so transfering between components should not decrease pay. 
What's hard to wrap my head around is, if one is not doing PTE work anymore, and is doing OCdt work (which at RMC, is jsut school work), then why deserve PTE pay, etc for other ranks and cimcumstances. 
When we signed our contracts, I though anyone who signed agreed that, yes, they will be an officer cadet, accepting the crap that comes with it, for 4 years, including pay...?
While it's true the UTPNCM's remain at their pay grade from their NCM rank, the differince is in their title itself...they're UTPNCMs, not ROTP officers, meaning they have families, lines of credit, etc, etc to pay. 
Obviously, ppl here are estatic over this... I mean, who wouldn;t be. After the first person got his approval, and told his buds, it spread around like wildfire, and now every former reservist here is cashing in.
My biggest question is, where is all this money gonig to come from? All we ever hear is how there's not enough money for this and that. 
Guess I shouldn;t have wasted all my time in cadets, or I'd be $30,000 richer right now, jsut like that :-\


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## casing (16 Mar 2006)

Your post is extremely painful to trudge through.  You are an RMC cadet, you say... Aren't decent writing skills a prereq for admission into RMC?

Anyway!  I'm failing to understand how a former Reservist is entitled to so much back pay.  Were they on class B or C contracts?  Even so, how would that warrant entitlement to what equates to RegF back pay?  

So far this is all hear say.  Do you have any substantiating evidence to back this up?  CFAO numbers indicating the "loop holes", or anything else?


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## lawandorder (16 Mar 2006)

as a PTE reservists only going to parade nights, weekend training, and 2 months class B in the summer, I can see making about $11 000 a year.  But that 2 months class B.  How are some people cashing cheques for $85 000.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

And just to let you know, there are plenty of PTE who do school work as well, its not just an Officer thing.


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

Well right now i'm a reservist with about almost 10 months credited time, and I have applied for RMC.  Are you saying if i get accepted that i can possibly get a check for $20,000??  Because I don't understand how that would work ???.


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## Inch (16 Mar 2006)

I'm calling BS. Kincanucks can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you don't component transfer into ROTP, which means you actually release from the CF even if only for a day. In that case, all pay and anything else you were entitled to would cease and you'd start all over again as an ROTP Ocdt.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=204.03&sidecat=21&Chapter=204#204.03

CBI Reference, pay particular attention to para 2. "Pay Protection not applicable" sub para (b), this is you guys. Now, to clarify this, if a pilot is remustered for some reason, para 2 applies to them as well in that they lose their pilot pay and revert back to GSO pay scales at the same IPC. IE Pilot IPC 5 would go to GSO IPC 5. You don't keep your pilot pay because you're not a pilot anymore.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&sidecat=21&Section=204.211&Chapter=204#204.211

Have a read of para 10, you'll notice that para 3 (the ROTP para) is not included in its criteria.

Now, disclaimer here, I'm no RMS clerk but I can read CBIs as well as anyone else can and it's pretty clear to me that you're all SOL. Sorry but thems the breaks for getting a free education.


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

Can't really say that I'm dissapointed haha.  Would have been something else though.


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## Wookilar (16 Mar 2006)

I've directed a few of the RO's to check everything with the pay office. I personally know two that have recieved substantial checks. I read the CBI's also and they do seem pretty clear. I just told them to NOT SPEND THE MONEY until they had confirmed everytyhing with the pay office (atleast twice). Nobody seems to know where these checks are coming from, so I would just advise any former Reservists to double check with their orderly rooms on this one.
Not that our pay system ever makes mistakes or anything   (I recieved Maj's pay for three months when I went from Pte2 to Cpl after the pay freeze was lifted. Then had to give it all back  :'()


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## kincanucks (16 Mar 2006)

Actually the CT policy has changed and yes you can now CT into ROTP and yes your pay will be protected now.  However, I didn't hear anything about it being grandfathered.  Wait and shoot.


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

How, if you don't mind my asking, would I go about doing a CT from PRes to ROTP?  I have all my applications done as well as my interview for ROTP but it would be the same as if i started right out of high school.  Any help you be greatly appreciated.


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## kincanucks (16 Mar 2006)

_


			
				Rad said:
			
		


			How, if you don't mind my asking, would I go about doing a CT from PRes to ROTP?  I have all my applications done as well as my interview for ROTP but it would be the same as if i started right out of high school.  Any help you be greatly appreciated.
		
Click to expand...

_
You have already been interviewed for ROTP this year while you were in the Reserves?  If yes then you are now doing a CT.

HH


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

Well, i didn't do it through the reserves.  I joined the reserves through one recruiting centre and did my ROTP through another.  The people who did my ROTP thing know i'm a reservist but i'm not 100% sure if my Reserve unit knows i'm applying for ROTP.


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## kincanucks (16 Mar 2006)

Rad said:
			
		

> Well, i didn't do it through the reserves.  I joined the reserves through one recruiting centre and did my ROTP through another.  The people who did my ROTP thing know i'm a reservist but i'm not 100% sure if my Reserve unit knows i'm applying for ROTP.



Hmmm, well in order for the CFRC/D to process you for ROTP while you are in the reserves they would have to contact your home unit for information so I am sure they know.


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

That makes sense, they did tell me they had to contact the other recruiting centre, but didn't tell me anything about contacting my unit.


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## Drummie (16 Mar 2006)

> Your post is extremely painful to trudge through.  You are an RMC cadet, you say... Aren't decent writing skills a prereq for admission into RMC?
> So far this is all hear say.  Do you have any substantiating evidence to back this up?



Writing skills, you bet they are! Fortanatley for me, since this is not being 'graded', and it's around 12"00 midnight, after completeing my duty shift, and a longer then usual day of school,  I'm not too worried about proof reading..it's readable. My apologies that you had to _trudge._ I shall aspire to make my posts less _trudge-ereous_ in future.



> as a PTE reservists only going to parade nights, weekend training, and 2 months class B in the summer, I can see making about $11 000 a year.  But that 2 months class B.  How are some people cashing cheques for $85 000.
> 
> And just to let you know, there are plenty of PTE who do school work as well, its not just an Officer thing.



Pte's? School work? No way!... get out! 
Perhaps my post wasn't clear, though after just reading it, it still seems clear to me. The point was ROTP cadets _just_ do school work for the most part, and IMO, aren;t really needing, and in many cases, not deserving of the same kind of dough a young NCM rcv's for actually doing a job. It really had nothing to do with who should be educated and who shouldn't.
Given, some of us do train mighty hard on Sandhurst, CISM teams, Varsity, Academic competitions, etc.
How one can make $85,000 is by being in the Res. F for something > 1 yr, and holding a rank higher then Pte, Able Seaman (or w/e it is?), and then going to Prep yr. for RMC. Therefore, one gets retroactive pay from the time they signed on as an OCdt.



> I'm calling BS.


Believe you me, I called that way before you did..and repeated it over and over while I cried myself to sleep last night. The fact of the matter is I wouldnt have wasted precious sleep time posting the post if the entire school wasn;t talking about it, and I though it had no significance. 
It hasnt digressed either. Today, in every class I had, ppl were talking about it...how they wished they'd not stayed in cadets and joined reserves etc. Tempers started fuming from ppl who aren't getting anything when ppl who were started flaunting it around the classroom, and everyone wants to hurt the guys that served 3 or 4 days in Res, and is getting this extra pay now.
I talked to a friend at lunch who went to see our pay office, and sure enough, they told him he'd be getting around $12,000. He served 1.5 years in naval res.
As for proof, perhaps if I find a copy of someone's check, I'll scan it to you...


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## kincanucks (16 Mar 2006)

So people are getting some extra cash for being a reservist before going to RMC.  Big freaking deal, move on.  People chose different paths and some get rewarded and some don't.  Cadets running around and waving it in other people's faces is not on but that is an issue for the RMC leadership.


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

Can't we all just get along?  After all we are part of the same family :.   hahaha


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## h3tacco (16 Mar 2006)

I don't quite get the logic. But since I was in the reserves before I went into ROTP can I get my check please!  ;D


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## FredDaHead (16 Mar 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> So people are getting some extra cash for being a reservist before going to RMC.  Big freaking deal, move on.



The problem is, those people essentially "demoted" themselves to a lower pay grade, willingly, but now they're reaping HUGE benefits. Sure, the guy who did 3-4 years in the Res and went up to Cpl or MCpl could be said to deserve it, but the guy who did 4 DAYS in the Reserves and who's now getting a few grands... How is THAT logical? In four days he probably didn't get his uniform issued to him, much less do anything productive for the CF.

I think that's the problem. I have a few guys in my class who've done a few years in the Res, and I'm cool with them getting money--well, it ticks me off, but MUCH less than guys who did a weekend and now get triple my pay and incredible benefits because of that.

This is definately an issue, and I think telling people it's not and that they should just "move on" will help foster hostility in a way that dealing with the problem, or even just explaining the rationale, would not. Right now, the "have nots" are mad at the "haves" because there's no reason (that's been told to us) that they should get shitloads of money and double/triple (or more) our pay for doing the exact same job. If we just tell the "have nots" to STFU, they're just gonna get angrier and the morale will go ever lower.

Personally, although it bugs me a lot, I don't hate the people for getting shitloads of money. I hate the fact they brag about it every chance they get, but that's beside the point. I'm mad at the CF for doing a totally unfair program (not in principle, but in application) like this and not telling us how it's done or why it's done that way.

But I've already gone way beyond what the QR&O's allow me to say, so I'll stop before an MP comes to take me away.


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## kincanucks (16 Mar 2006)

_but the guy who did 4 DAYS in the Reserves and who's now getting a few thousand grands.._

Repetitive BS and wouldn't that be a million dollars?  Love this new generation where you need everything explained to you.


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## FredDaHead (16 Mar 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _but the guy who did 4 DAYS in the Reserves and who's now getting a few thousand grands.._
> 
> Repetitive BS and wouldn't that be a million dollars?  Love this new generation where you need everything explained to you.



We don't need everything explained to us, just stupid shit like that, that makes absolutely zero sense.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake in that sentence, I shall edit it.


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## Rad (16 Mar 2006)

haha if they give me "a few thousand grand" i could really care less how ticked off at me you are, wheather i served a day, a year, or a thousand grand years.  I'd just buy some ear plugs so i didn't have to hear you complaining.

Some people get lucky man, live with it.  Your day will come i'm sure and then it'll be someone elses turn to be pissed off about what you're getting.

R.


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## Wookilar (17 Mar 2006)

I would hope that the CoC here would realize the basket of potential issues that are right around the corner with so many people getting large sums of money. Maybe PMT on Wednesday's could be given over to some financial planning from a SISIP Rep for those that it applies. Actually, for a group of people that get such a large pay raise upon grad and commissioning, you would think that some kind of money management would be mandatory. Might have to mention that to somebody important.. ^-^..wait, maybe someone that cares... :...., well, maybe I'll just pass it up the chain.  :-\


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## Rad (17 Mar 2006)

Yeah, a money managment class would be awesome, showing how to invest all this new money.

How much does an Ocdt. at RMC make?  And how much does an ROTP Ocdt at Civie U make?

R.


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## Wookilar (17 Mar 2006)

An Ro is an RO, no matter where they "go to school" (actually, the school is your place of duty, therefore you are at work, not just going to school).

Oh, and FredG, just to add to what you said about equal work for equal pay wrt former Reservist ROTP and straight ROTP, I do the same job as you, but I mainintain the pay level I had before I accepted UTPNCM. But of course, you say, that makes sense. I have been in for x amount of years, I should keep the pay. That's what is exactly happening with the Reservists. This is not just free money, it is backpay for the time served and the difference in pay that someone would get If they had maintained that rank in the first place.

I'm not saying I agree with it. Mainly becuase it doesn't matter whether we agree with it. Our personal opinions on this (and any other policy statement) are just that, ours. 

Aren't any of you ROTP types curious why there are 10 pay incentives and 4 different pay categoties for OCdt? This part of the reason why.


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## Rad (17 Mar 2006)

So they will make the first IPC od Ocdt their first year, 2nd IPC the second, and so on?

And if i get into ROTP, will i then be making my pte pay as a class B reservist because it would be higher?


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## FredDaHead (17 Mar 2006)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> An Ro is an RO, no matter where they "go to school" (actually, the school is your place of duty, therefore you are at work, not just going to school).
> 
> Oh, and FredG, just to add to what you said about equal work for equal pay wrt former Reservist ROTP and straight ROTP, I do the same job as you, but I mainintain the pay level I had before I accepted UTPNCM. But of course, you say, that makes sense. I have been in for x amount of years, I should keep the pay. That's what is exactly happening with the Reservists. This is not just free money, it is backpay for the time served and the difference in pay that someone would get If they had maintained that rank in the first place.



There's a huge difference between a reservist who showed up on some weekends, maybe did some summer stuff, and a bunch of you UT guys who went on tours and actually served day-in and day-out for years. (Or at least actually did something beyond show up every few weeks for a weekend at the Armory) I respect you UTs because most of (if not all of) you have actual experience--many of the Res guys getting all that money and three times my pay don't have that experience, if any experience at all. Sure, some guys have a lot of experience and some have even gone on actual tours, but shouldn't there be some sort of mechanism where if you've been in for a few days, you don't get all those nice benefits and high pay? The way it works right now, if someone had signed the dotted line for the Res but never showed up, they'd still be getting the triple-pay and huge backpay, just because they'd held the rank of Pte.

It's still free money, but like you said, it doesn't matter what I think. That and I'm a dumb first year anyways, I don't have a right to an opinion or conscious thoughts.



> I'm not saying I agree with it. Mainly becuase it doesn't matter whether we agree with it. Our personal opinions on this (and any other policy statement) are just that, ours.
> 
> Aren't any of you ROTP types curious why there are 10 pay incentives and 4 different pay categoties for OCdt? This part of the reason why.



I'm not curious about the 4 pay caterogies for OCdt's... I didn't hear about the 10 pay incentives though. Care to elaborate? Like I said, I'm a dumb first year, I don't know anything.


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## kincanucks (17 Mar 2006)

There are three incentives for ROTP OCdts plus a basic level.

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/other/RegularForcePay.pdf

DA


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## twohig (17 Mar 2006)

With a little TI, you know where to look for information on what you're entitled to.  I know there are several different pay scales for the same rank and it is available on line if you know where to look.  Wookliar is right, there are 10 incentives for Ocdt on 4 different pay scales.  Incentive 1 - 10 on pay scale D is the one he is talking about.  

Ubique.


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## Wookilar (17 Mar 2006)

Kin, thanx for that. I was looking at OCdt (D) pay scales. 10 incentives for us. Tunnel vision when it comes to pay  :. Doesn't really make any sense why they have an OCdt pay scale for us in the first place, we just maintain our old pay. *stop hijacking thread*

Fred, the point is, the calculations are based on time in. That's it. For whatever reason these individuals joined the Res *and then* was accepted into the ROTP program. The two programs are completely seperate from each other and I do not know if the left hand at the unit would be talking to the right hand at CFRG. I can see people applying for both to cover all their bases, just incase one or the other does not work out. Since this is such a new thing, I do not see the possibility that people intentionally scammed the CF by doing so. 

Go along with your buds, get them to buy you a round at the mess to celebrate their good fortune and carry on. Just tell them, in a polite way as possible, to not brag about it. It will cause problems, but so will your complaining about a policy they had absolutely no input in.


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## Drummie (17 Mar 2006)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Oh, and FredG, just to add to what you said about equal work for equal pay wrt former Reservist ROTP and straight ROTP, I do the same job as you, but I mainintain the pay level I had before I accepted UTPNCM. But of course, you say, that makes sense. I have been in for x amount of years, I should keep the pay. That's what is exactly happening with the Reservists. This is not just free money, it is backpay for the time served and the difference in pay that someone would get If they had maintained that rank in the first place.
> 
> I'm



I'm maybe grossly mistaken, but I thought all UTPNCM's transfered from a Reg F NCM position?  If that is the case, I would assume it's simply a component transfer or something very siimilar that took place, which would explain why you keep your former pay. Also the tiny fact that UTP's have lives, families, bills, etc.

There are already many RMC-specific provisions in the CF, ranging from RMC OCdt's not being entitled to IECS kit, to the uniforms we wear, and leave we can ask for. It baffles me why there wouldn't be a provision for this. There's no shortage of brass complaining of the need for more money, yet there seems to be an unlimited bank of retroactive money waiting to be thrown at 18-22 yr olds, many of whom have small, if any debts, let alone families, etc to pay for. 
In addition, in talking to one of my fourth yr buds (who BTW is entiled to a $93,000 pay off, How's that for tax dollars at work!) he said he had asked about this very same procedure in past, and was told it wasn;t allowed. This yr, perhaps someone filed a grievance, or challeged the pay offices' decision, or whatever, but the office has obviosuly agreed. Therefore, theroretically, wouldn't anyone that was in Res F, came to RMC and graduated, since the time these "pay equilibrium" regulations were published, be entitled to a crap load of money too?


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## lawandorder (17 Mar 2006)

Scan the check and post it here, then I'll believe it.

And if there's no cheque per say, scan the pay stub/official documentation with the dollar ammount.


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## double0three (17 Mar 2006)

Even better would be for someone who made tens of thousands of dollars to actually deposit the balance into my bank account.  I will then know this is for real.  Please PM me for account details.


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## Rad (18 Mar 2006)

I think double0three has the right idea.  Feel free to PM me for my account info to deposit as well.  ;D


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## bbbb (18 Mar 2006)

RMC Officer-Cadets should not be paid more money. All they do is schoolwork and the occasional summer courses. SLT is easy guys! It dosen't take too much effort to study.


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## Rad (18 Mar 2006)

For you maybe.  Everyone has their own perception of what's difficult.  Just because you think it's easy dosen't mean everyone else will.

R.


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## bbbb (18 Mar 2006)

Any Officer-Cadet doing university-level studies will find SLT a walk in the park compared to engineering.


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## Drummie (18 Mar 2006)

Rad said:
			
		

> Yeah, a money managment class would be awesome, showing how to invest all this new money.
> 
> How much does an Ocdt. at RMC make?  And how much does an ROTP Ocdt at Civie U make?
> 
> R.



They make the same. ROTP is ROTP, doesnt matter where you are.


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## ROTP Applicant (18 Mar 2006)

The Fighting 47th said:
			
		

> They make the same. ROTP is ROTP, doesnt matter where you are.



The pay for all ROTP students is the same. However, PLD rates across the country are different and can often double the OCdt's monthly income (i.e. Toronto PLD is $1586.00 per month).


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## Rad (19 Mar 2006)

What's PLD?


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## Torlyn (19 Mar 2006)

Post Living differential.  If you live out of shacks, depending on your geographical area of posting, you are entitled to a taxable benefit which varies based on region.  In Victoria, it's an extra $464 a month.  If you live with someone else who's in, you both recieve 75% of your total PLD allotment each.  hope that helps.

T


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## Rad (19 Mar 2006)

Sure does.   So how would it work if i was living in a university residence, would dnd pay tuition and my res fees, plus give me the salary and the PLD?


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## Strike (25 Mar 2006)

bbbb said:
			
		

> Any Officer-Cadet doing university-level studies will find SLT a walk in the park compared to engineering.



And how about those arts students, who call somewhere in Newfoundland, Nunavut, or some other area where French is barely a requirement in school?  They might not find it as easy as those that hail from the Manitoba to NB corridor.

Yes, there is an arts program at RMC.


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## bbbb (26 Mar 2006)

I prefer history to engineering myself. I will remind you that I NEVER said there was no arts program at RMC.

The Manitoba to NB corridor? With the exception of Quebec and NB I'd say French isn't that well learned you know. Unless you live in a French community it is quite difficult to learn French. This Manitoba to NB corridor thing dosen't make any sense to me. Perhaps you can enlighten me about that?

Have a good day,

bbbb


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## Former291er (26 Mar 2006)

Hello people, I have been following this post and it is interesting. I have a question, hopefully some clerks on here will read this. Does this increased pay and pay scale apply ONLY to ROTP applicants or does it also apply to CEOTP applicants? I have 2 years reserves INF and 3 years reg 291. Would I be entitled to receive the pay of a private 3 at $3500/month instead of the CEOTP pay of $2400/month?
And if so, will it automatically be included in my job offer or is there something I have to do to correct the pay incentive?
Thanks in advance,
Rob.


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## kincanucks (26 Mar 2006)

It only applies to people who were serving in the reserves at the time they went to RMC.  Your previous service would only apply to your pension.


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## Former291er (26 Mar 2006)

okay, thank you sir.
Rob.


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## Strike (26 Mar 2006)

bbbb,

Those of us who have had the pleasure to actually travel outside our own provinces know that Manitoba, and SEVERAL towns in Ontario that aren't in any proximity to Quebec, have a very large francophone population.

Are you studying Canadian history per chance?  If so, you may want to dig a little deeper.   ;D

(Edited for spelling)


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## Zoomie (26 Mar 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> It only applies to people who were serving in the reserves at the time they went to RMC.  Your previous service would only apply to your pension.



Not  true... The following document: http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/instructions/engraph/0705_admhrmil_e.asp clearly states that qualifying service can now be used to calculate the IPC of incoming members from the PRes.  It also makes a caveat of including any qualifying service within a 5 year window that can also be used. 
Further, the CT program has changed dramatically and offers more benefits to trained members making the cross-over from PRes to RegF and vice-versa.  Coincidently there is no specific instruction to exempting those members already in service, can you say back-pay?  Take this message to your OR and let them work it out for you and see if you are due a new IPC.


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## SupersonicMax (26 Mar 2006)

By the way, right now, only 1st year cases are under review.  2, 3 and 4 year might be done later. 

How it is going to work :

-You get the pay you had in the reserve (back pay from the 1st day you were an Ocdt)
-You change program (continuing education)
-After grad, the pay isn,t the same for those folks than for us (3806$/mo for an RO, 3026$/mo for a CE). Same for the following ranks (see pay scale)

Personnaly, I'd rather make more money after grad than during RMC...  I don't really need it right now and I would probably spend it all...

Max


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## kincanucks (27 Mar 2006)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Not  true... The following document: http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/instructions/engraph/0705_admhrmil_e.asp clearly states that qualifying service can now be used to calculate the IPC of incoming members from the PRes.  It also makes a caveat of including any qualifying service within a 5 year window that can also be used.
> Further, the CT program has changed dramatically and offers more benefits to trained members making the cross-over from PRes to RegF and vice-versa.  Coincidently there is no specific instruction to exempting those members already in service, can you say back-pay?  Take this message to your OR and let them work it out for you and see if you are due a new IPC.



_It only applies to people who were serving in the reserves at the time they went to RMC. _ is a CT.  Since this guy is not a serving reservist how would the new CT policy apply to him?  Why do I bother?


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## Zoomie (27 Mar 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Why do I bother?



Take a deep breathe....

This message does not only pertain to CT from PRes to RMC - if he was on SuppRes the message would be valid.  The same calculation for determining pension buyback (100% Class B/C, 25% Class A) is now being weighed against your entry IPC and TCP.  Vested rights for pay is not protected, only your equivalent time in carries over.


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## kincanucks (27 Mar 2006)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Take a deep breathe....
> 
> This message does not only pertain to CT from PRes to RMC - if he was on SuppRes the message would be valid.  The same calculation for determining pension buyback (100% Class B/C, 25% Class A) is now being weighed against your entry IPC and TCP.  Vested rights for pay is not protected, only your equivalent time in carries over.


It is breath.  I will let you answer all the questions WRT this as you must be able to read better than me.


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## SemperV (22 May 2006)

Alright, Admin Gods, I have a question...

I was recently told by a friend who is attending RMC that there has been a recent policy development which impacts those ROTP students who served in the P Res prior to their CT.  The policy relates to pay rates, and the fact that OCdts make less than P Res Pte's or Cpls -- and that P Res Ptes are entitled to maintain their pay rate while enrolled in ROTP.  I was a Pte in the P Res at the time of my CT.  

Now, according to my friend, we are entitled to back-pay because of this new policy.  Has anyone heard of this policy?  Can you point me to the relevant CANFORGEN or Hr-Mil Instr?  I have poked around, and can't seem to find anything.  Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Semper Vigilans,

Steve.


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## Rad (22 May 2006)

After reading all of this topic, I am still not sure of the answer.  If an ROTP student was a Pte IPC 2 in the PRes before getting accepted to ROTP, would he as an Ocdt be making the RegF equivilant to Pte IPC 2, or would he get the PRes pay on a 'B'-Class contract?  Example; 

Pte. Scroll is making $88.30 per day as a reservist on 'A'-Class.  He accepted an offer for ROTP, would he now(Ocdt. Scroll) be making $2960 per month, *or* $88.30 per day/everyday(approx. $2685 per month)?

Hopefully this simplifies my question so there can be a simplified answer.  It's all very confusing to me. ???

Thanks, 
R.


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## George Wallace (22 May 2006)

SemperV said:
			
		

> I was recently told by a friend who is attending RMC that there has been a recent policy development which impacts those ROTP students who served in the P Res prior to their CT.  The policy relates to pay rates, and the fact that OCdts make less than P Res Pte's or Cpls -- and that P Res Ptes are entitled to maintain their pay rate while enrolled in ROTP.  I was a Pte in the P Res at the time of my CT.



OK

Let's confuse you some more.  Are these people enrolled at RMC as P Res Ptes (or whatever rank) or are they enrolled as Regular Force OCdts?  You do know that you do not necessarily have to be a Regular Force member to be enrolled in RMC?  Civies can enrole there also.



			
				SemperV said:
			
		

> Now, according to my friend, we are entitled to back-pay because of this new policy.  Has anyone heard of this policy?  Can you point me to the relevant CANFORGEN or Hr-Mil Instr?  I have poked around, and can't seem to find anything.  Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.



Steve

Now you have made the cardinal sin of "listening to a friend".  If (s)he is telling you this, surely (s)he can provide some documentation or source for their info.


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## hunterd (10 Jun 2006)

Does anyone have any current information about this new policy.  I am a third year ROTP Civilian University.  I had 4 years of full time B"A" Reserve time before I transferred to the SRR, then later applied for ROTP.  I am uncertain whether this new policy would apply to me.

Thanks


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## maniac779 (28 Sep 2006)

I don`t know how much good bringing this back to the surface will do, but I have found some information in my travels that may help the situation you ROTP types are talking about.

Reference ADM (HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 07/05

http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/docs/instruction/instructions/engraph/0705_admhrmil_e.asp

``All reservists selected for attendance to an RMC program and meeting the skilled status under this instruction will be treated as if they were UTPNCM candidates. Reservists who do not meet the skilled status will be treated as if they were ROTP candidates. (October 2005) ``

Skilled status is defined as:

2.8 Skilled Applicant

``A skilled applicant is one seeking CT into the same occupation and who has:

reached the Basic Occupational Qualification as defined by the occupational specification for the component from which the member is transferring; and 
accumulated the equivalent of 36 months of FTPS. 
The skilled applicant may be selected for further training in order to be fully employable in the gaining component.``

This is amplified by CBI 204.211 (4) 

http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=204.211&sidecat=21&Chapter=204#204.211

(4) (Rate of pay - University Training Plan (Non-commissioned Members) and Special Commissioning Plan) A lieutenant or second lieutenant to whom the University Training Plan (Non-Commissioned Members) or Special Commissioning Plan applies shall be paid, for each month after the month and year specified in the table, at the rate of pay for the officer's rank and and pay increment as follows

if appointed to the rank of officer cadet directly from the rank of private, in pay level A of Table "B" or "C" to this instruction; 
if appointed to the rank of officer cadet directly from the rank of corporal or above, in pay level D of Table "B" or "C" to this instruction. 
if commissioned directly to the rank of lieutenant or second lieutenant from a non-commissioned member rank, in pay level D of Table "B" or "C" to this instruction 

I am currently fighting a pay battle right now and it seems that this makes things fairly cut and dry for you RMC types.


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