# Army Digest



## army

Posted by *cauzway@geocities.com* on *Sat, 13 Nov 1999 01:53:09 -0500*
Alright already, some one some where TAke me off this list!
I sent a e-mail to Major.ca address and got a confirmation of 
removal, yet I‘m still getting these msgs.
army-digest wrote:
> 
> army-digest         Saturday, February 5 2000         Volume 01 : Number 022
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:53:18 PST
> From: "celine garbay" 
> Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> 
> You know, sometime last year I received a call at our Orderly Room from a
> man in Ontario who has just recently published a book - and I believe it was
> on Kangaroos in Canada.  I can‘t remember off-hand the name of this man or
> the name of his book....I‘ll try to find out, but in the meantime perhaps
> calling around to some book publishers in Ontario may shed some light.
> Celine
> 
> >From: "Lawson" 
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: 
> >Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:00:30 -0800
> >
> >Clive:
> >   I Know of no Kangaroos in Canada, however in late 1960s there were
> >modified kangaroos in the Camp Borden ARV Meaford area I remember circa
> >1969
> >at least four being worked on at Base Maintenance Borden and used in
> >conjunction with Combat Arms School Training.
> >   I was working with CAS Special warfare at the time never worked directly
> >with them but did observe them. the kicker was that I think they were
> >modified Sherman not Ram hulls. What happened to them disposal wise I am
> >unaware of. But at the time everything heavy in Borden was going to
> >Levy.That where most of Meaford ARV Armour went. The Camp attempted to find
> >Legions etc to accept some hulls but I think only two or three were sent
> >out
> >free, One to legion in Collingwood and another to Legion in Meaford.  That
> >Vehicle now returned to Meaford Training Area.
> >   Background information the Borden Museum has the a Photo album and
> >personnel Document‘s in binder of a Trooper MacLean?unsure last name
> >spelling Who was posted into what became 1st Canadian Carrier Regiment in
> >1944 excerpts from History original soft covered Regimental Association
> >History, and new hard cover edition. Documents include Service Books, short
> >History 79 Div. Photos of Canadian and British Girls, Mementoes etc,
> >Artifacts have a mint condition noncut out set of 1 CAR Flashes, Formation
> >Patches which includes Pacific Force Formation. Trooper Volunteered for
> >Pacific Force came home early granted leave and war ended while he was on
> >leave.
> >   A few pictures of Belgium/Netherlands but a fair amount of a laagered
> >Troop, some minor parades on Regimental photo all taken in Netherlands
> >after
> >cease fire NWE.
> >   Many of photos also show after Regiment stood down some personnel wound
> >up
> >in England at a Armored Replacement Depot ROC. Photos identify unit and
> >very
> >much the fact that most British Personnel  both Military  Civilian were
> >female.
> >   I catalogued those items into collection last fall. However as I have
> >been
> >laid off by Borden Museum I suggest you contact them directly
> >
> >    Keith Lawson
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:06 PM
> >Subject: Kangaroos
> >
> >
> > > Know any Kangaroos??
> > > The 1st Canadian Armoured Personnel Carrier Regimental Association is
> > > looking for former members of the 1CAPC, the 123LAD RCOC attached and
> >the
> > > 1CAPC Sigs Sqdn. The 1CAPC was unique in being the only Regiment which
> >was
> > > formed, fought and disbanded outside of Canada.
> > > A tribute was established in Holland last year on a private initiative
> >and
> > > in Canada we are tryng to establish another memorial. The Kangaroos were
> >RAM
> > > tanks*, with the turret removed. These then functioned as battlefield
> >taxis.
> > > As part of the British 79th Div they were the first complete Canadian
> > > fighting unit in Germany.
> > > Any names and addresses can be passed to me for forwarding to the newly
> > > formed association.
> > >
> > > Thnx,
> > >
> > > Clive M. Law
> > >
> > >  *The original Squadron used US-made Priest SP with the gun removed,
> >hence
> > > the nick-name ‘unfrocked‘ priests.
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:21:42 -0800
> From: "Bradley Sallows" 
> Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> 
> >I Know of no Kangaroos in Canada
> 
> On one of the myriad AFV sites on the web Achtung Panzer!, I think, I saw a
> reference including photo of a mob of Kangaroos sitting in a scrap yard in Spain
> or Portugal.  Supposedly they may still be there.
> 
> Brad Sallows
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:32:30 -0500
> From: Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca
> Subject: RE: Kangaroos
> 
> Hi Celine
> 
> Yes that was Ken Ramsden, a former officer in the Regiment.
> In the nominal roll that I have compiled I have, I believe, identified every
> officer including the RCOC Ordnance Corps and RCCS Corps of Signals
> officers who were part of the LAD and Sigs Sdn. In addition I have
> identified the CDC Dental Corps officers, RCAMC Medical Corps, Aux Svce
> Auxiliary Services, CCS Chaplain Service and even the Dutch interpreter,
> all of whom were attached to the Regiment at one time or another.
> At one point the Regiment was desperate for Troop Commanders and 21 Army Grp
> arranged for a motor launch to deliver 8 fresh-faced Lts directly from the
> Cdn Armd Crps Reinf Unit 1CACRU in England to be delivered to the
> Regiment.
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: celine garbay [mailto:garbayc@HOTMAIL.COM]
> Sent: February 3, 2000 12:53 PM
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> 
> You know, sometime last year I received a call at our Orderly Room from a
> man in Ontario who has just recently published a book - and I believe it was
> 
> on Kangaroos in Canada.  I can‘t remember off-hand the name of this man or
> the name of his book....I‘ll try to find out, but in the meantime perhaps
> calling around to some book publishers in Ontario may shed some light.
> Celine
> 
> >From: "Lawson" 
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: 
> >Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:00:30 -0800
> >
> >Clive:
> >   I Know of no Kangaroos in Canada, however in late 1960s there were
> >modified kangaroos in the Camp Borden ARV Meaford area I remember circa
> >1969
> >at least four being worked on at Base Maintenance Borden and used in
> >conjunction with Combat Arms School Training.
> >   I was working with CAS Special warfare at the time never worked directly
> >with them but did observe them. the kicker was that I think they were
> >modified Sherman not Ram hulls. What happened to them disposal wise I am
> >unaware of. But at the time everything heavy in Borden was going to
> >Levy.That where most of Meaford ARV Armour went. The Camp attempted to find
> >Legions etc to accept some hulls but I think only two or three were sent
> >out
> >free, One to legion in Collingwood and another to Legion in Meaford.  That
> >Vehicle now returned to Meaford Training Area.
> >   Background information the Borden Museum has the a Photo album and
> >personnel Document‘s in binder of a Trooper MacLean?unsure last name
> >spelling Who was posted into what became 1st Canadian Carrier Regiment in
> >1944 excerpts from History original soft covered Regimental Association
> >History, and new hard cover edition. Documents include Service Books, short
> >History 79 Div. Photos of Canadian and British Girls, Mementoes etc,
> >Artifacts have a mint condition noncut out set of 1 CAR Flashes, Formation
> >Patches which includes Pacific Force Formation. Trooper Volunteered for
> >Pacific Force came home early granted leave and war ended while he was on
> >leave.
> >   A few pictures of Belgium/Netherlands but a fair amount of a laagered
> >Troop, some minor parades on Regimental photo all taken in Netherlands
> >after
> >cease fire NWE.
> >   Many of photos also show after Regiment stood down some personnel wound
> >up
> >in England at a Armored Replacement Depot ROC. Photos identify unit and
> >very
> >much the fact that most British Personnel  both Military  Civilian were
> >female.
> >   I catalogued those items into collection last fall. However as I have
> >been
> >laid off by Borden Museum I suggest you contact them directly
> >
> >    Keith Lawson
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:06 PM
> >Subject: Kangaroos
> >
> >
> > > Know any Kangaroos??
> > > The 1st Canadian Armoured Personnel Carrier Regimental Association is
> > > looking for former members of the 1CAPC, the 123LAD RCOC attached and
> >the
> > > 1CAPC Sigs Sqdn. The 1CAPC was unique in being the only Regiment which
> >was
> > > formed, fought and disbanded outside of Canada.
> > > A tribute was established in Holland last year on a private initiative
> >and
> > > in Canada we are tryng to establish another memorial. The Kangaroos were
> >RAM
> > > tanks*, with the turret removed. These then functioned as battlefield
> >taxis.
> > > As part of the British 79th Div they were the first complete Canadian
> > > fighting unit in Germany.
> > > Any names and addresses can be passed to me for forwarding to the newly
> > > formed association.
> > >
> > > Thnx,
> > >
> > > Clive M. Law
> > >
> > >  *The original Squadron used US-made Priest SP with the gun removed,
> >hence
> > > the nick-name ‘unfrocked‘ priests.
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:26:34 -0800
> From: Ian Edwards 
> Subject: Re: Kangaroos - Nom. Role
> 
> Clive from Ian Edwards:
> 
> Looks like you are doing some more good work. While access to old PartII
> Orders is prohibited, sometimes you can strike it lucky going thru PartI
> orders. Occasionally the Part I‘s publish the list of all ranks awarded
> service medals or list everybody‘s name for movements, duties, etc. all
> at once or just through a bit of dog work getting them listed a few at a
> time.
> 
> The NAC copy of unit War Diarys are fascinating reading as they have
> attached to them all monthly correspondence and one can find lots of
> gems in amongst the routine bumpf. Pitty we can‘t all live in Ottawa
> that would be my idea of heaven to spend the rest of my life doing
> militaria research at NAC get a life, I hear some saying, but wait til
> you, too, are too old for baseball.
> 
> Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ian,
> >
> > >From my understanding, the Toronto area vets would try to get together
> > annually, but informally. Now there is an attempt to find missing members
> > and form an offical organisation, as well as to establish a monument. I may
> > be wrong as I have been asked to assist at "third hand" so my details may be
> > fuzzy.
> > My specific tasking is to try to create a nominal roll of the Units. So far
> > I have harvested names from the casualty cards and the Units‘ War Diaries.
> > The Units‘ Part II Orders are inaccessible under the Privacy Act/ Access to
> > Information. This is unfortunate as these would have all of the
> > names/numbers of the soldiers as they joined. Nonetheless I have been able
> > to cull about 400 names.
> >
> > On a completely separate subject. For collectors of militaria. I publish
> > "Military Artifact" a quarterly newsletter dedicated to the militaria of
> > Britain/Canada of the 20th century. Each issue runs 8 pages and is
> > professionally printed, with many never-before-seen photographs. Articles
> > are foot-noted and many are written by leading collectors from arund the
> > world. I am now starting the fourth year of publication.
> > Subscription is CDA$12.00/Year in Canada and to CF personnel world-wide,
> > US$12.00 to the US and US$15.00 elsewher in the world. Back issues are
> > available at $4.00 each. A sample copy is available, free for the asking,
> > either by e-mail or snail-mail to
> > Service Publications
> > PO Box 33071
> > Ottawa, ON K2C 3Y9
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ian Edwards [mailto:iedwards@home.com]
> > Sent: February 3, 2000 12:18 PM
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> >
> > Clive, from Ian Edwards:
> >
> > Aren‘t you reinventing the wheel? I believe the unit had/has a vet‘s
> > association for some time. A couple of decades ago their association
> > produced replicas of their "kangaroo" cap badge and the collectors
> > market has been flooded with the badges ever since. Of course there are
> > also fake copies kicking around, because the original badges are so
> > scarce. A fellow collector in Regina initials MKhad about 10-12
> > examples in his collection and delighted in showing his friends how to
> > spot the arcane differences between real and phony.
> > Also, the vets published a unit history about 1-2 years ago. Very
> > interesting read.
> >
> > Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca wrote:
> > >
> > > Know any Kangaroos??
> > > The 1st Canadian Armoured Personnel Carrier Regimental Association
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:48:24 -0600
> From: Gordan Dundas 
> Subject: Re: Hopeful Soldier
> 
> Damned fine words!
> 
> dave wrote:
> 
> > Dear Hopeful Soldier,
> >     It is a wonderful thing to be a soldier regardless of what arm you
> > select. You should be aware however that as wonderful an opportunity as it
> > is, in Canada, this is one the very worst times in recent history to be one.
> > The good news is, and some would argue the fact, that things can‘t get much
> > worse, so hopefully you will be entering at the beginning of an upward
> > cycle. We must all hold the politicians and senior brass accountable for the
> > sad state the army and other branches find themselves.
> > Having served 14 years as an Infanteer and another 16 as blue tech, I can
> > relate to some of the humour laden advice that has been offered. So for my
> > bit, I would say, the infantry will allow you to discover yourself in a way
> > no other persuit could. You will also discover much about interacting with
> > others from the broad spectrum of society. This is psychycological training
> > that no university has the capability of offering. You will also discover
> > the real meaning of camaradre and the power of the team concept and how you
> > fit into it. You will become if you are not already physically fit, and
> > depending on what area you get into, may become magnificentally so. One of
> > the greatest experiences you will engage in is our war and peace, time and
> > battle tested regimental system which we inherited from Mother Britain. It
> > is like no other and extends the meaning of the word family. You will be
> > entering a fraternity that will be with you, and serve you for the rest of
> > your life.
> > I read this thing somewhere.
> > There is no such thing as a good, bad, or indifferent soldier,
> > To be called a soldier is deserving of the highest compliment,
> > It needs no prefix or describing word,
> > Being be a soldier is an absolute, like being dead or being alive
> > Either a man is a soldier or he is not,
> > There are no half-way measures.
> >     Good Luck with your enlistment.
> >
> > Dave Willard
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:43:16 -0400
> From: "laura mcgee" 
> Subject: [none]
> 
> Please take my e-mail address off the list
> I am getting tons of mail that I am not requesting
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:49:16 -0500
> From: Yvon Brisson 
> Subject: Re:
> 
> ******** Me too, please removed me from your mailing list*******
> 
> laura mcgee wrote:
> 
> > Please take my e-mail address off the list
> > I am getting tons of mail that I am not requesting
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:34:25 -0500
> From: Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca
> Subject: Remove
> 
> It is simple to remove yourself from the list. READ the note at the bottom
> of every message!!
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Yvon Brisson [mailto:Yvon.Brisson@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: February 4, 2000 9:49 AM
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re:
> 
> ******** Me too, please removed me from your mailing list*******
> 
> laura mcgee wrote:
> 
> > Please take my e-mail address off the list
> > I am getting tons of mail that I am not requesting
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:36:47 EST
> From: Piston7702@AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: Remove
> 
> remove from list
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:17:12 -0000
> From: "bob power" 
> Subject: REMOVE FROM LIST
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> Content-Type: text/html
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:50:04 -0500
> From: TONY GILCHRIST 
> Subject: Re: Remove
> 
> i have several times...this is annoying.
> 
> Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca wrote:
> >
> > It is simple to remove yourself from the list. READ the note at the bottom
> > of every message!!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Yvon Brisson [mailto:Yvon.Brisson@sympatico.ca]
> > Sent: February 4, 2000 9:49 AM
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> > ******** Me too, please removed me from your mailing list*******
> >
> > laura mcgee wrote:
> >
> > > Please take my e-mail address off the list
> > > I am getting tons of mail that I am not requesting
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:13:20 -0500
> From: "Moose" 
> Subject: Re: Swords
> 
> CHECK WITH SIR WINIPEG MANITOBA
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Tutthill 
> To: army Digest 
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 8:59 PM
> Subject: Swords
> 
> > Good day to All!
> >
> > Does anyone on these means have access to an address, website, telephone
> > number etc., of anyone dealing in swords?  Our Cadet Corps is looking at
> > purchasing a few for ceremonial occasions.  We would prefer somehting
> > along the lines of the CF sword or a cavalry/armoured pattern as we are
> > an an armoured Corps.
> > ThanX to all in advance.
> >
> > 2Lt Kevin Tutthill
> > Trg O
> >  2528 RCACC
> > XII Manitoba Dragoons Cadet Corps
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:01:16 -0800
> From: "Helen  Eblaghie" 
> Subject: Re:
> 
> Please take my email address off the list also... I am not even interested
> anymore and I don‘t care for other peoples‘ conversations regarding the
> army.
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: laura mcgee 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 4:55 AM
> 
> >Please take my e-mail address off the list
> >I am getting tons of mail that I am not requesting
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:02:29 -0800
> From: "Helen  Eblaghie" 
> Subject: Re:
> 
> Too many people want out of the list.  Please make this happen.  I do not
> want any more emails from the army.
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Yvon Brisson 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re:
> 
> >******** Me too, please removed me from your mailing list*******
> >
> >laura mcgee wrote:
> >
> >> Please take my e-mail address off the list
> >> I am getting tons of mail that I am not requesting
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> message body.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:02:53 -0800
> From: "Helen  Eblaghie" 
> Subject: Re: Remove
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Piston7702@AOL.COM 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Remove
> 
> >remove from list
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:07:07 -0800
> From: "Helen  Eblaghie" 
> Subject: Re: REMOVE FROM LIST
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> How very nice.  Having
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## army

Posted by *bonnie roth <rememama@yahoo.com>* on *Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:14:17 -0800 (PST)*
Sorry You never made it.  Try again
--- cauzway@geocities.com wrote:
> Alright already, some one some where TAke me off
> this list!
> I sent a e-mail to Major.ca address and got a
> confirmation of 
> removal, yet I‘m still getting these msgs.
> 
> army-digest wrote:
> > 
> > army-digest         Saturday, February 5 2000     
>    Volume 01 : Number 022
> > 
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:53:18 PST
> > From: "celine garbay" 
> > Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> > 
> > You know, sometime last year I received a call at
> our Orderly Room from a
> > man in Ontario who has just recently published a
> book - and I believe it was
> > on Kangaroos in Canada.  I can‘t remember off-hand
> the name of this man or
> > the name of his book....I‘ll try to find out, but
> in the meantime perhaps
> > calling around to some book publishers in Ontario
> may shed some light.
> > Celine
> > 
> > >From: "Lawson" 
> > >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > >To: 
> > >Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:00:30 -0800
> > >
> > >Clive:
> > >   I Know of no Kangaroos in Canada, however in
> late 1960s there were
> > >modified kangaroos in the Camp Borden ARV Meaford
> area I remember circa
> > >1969
> > >at least four being worked on at Base Maintenance
> Borden and used in
> > >conjunction with Combat Arms School Training.
> > >   I was working with CAS Special warfare at the
> time never worked directly
> > >with them but did observe them. the kicker was
> that I think they were
> > >modified Sherman not Ram hulls. What happened to
> them disposal wise I am
> > >unaware of. But at the time everything heavy in
> Borden was going to
> > >Levy.That where most of Meaford ARV Armour went.
> The Camp attempted to find
> > >Legions etc to accept some hulls but I think only
> two or three were sent
> > >out
> > >free, One to legion in Collingwood and another to
> Legion in Meaford.  That
> > >Vehicle now returned to Meaford Training Area.
> > >   Background information the Borden Museum has
> the a Photo album and
> > >personnel Document‘s in binder of a Trooper
> MacLean?unsure last name
> > >spelling Who was posted into what became 1st
> Canadian Carrier Regiment in
> > >1944 excerpts from History original soft covered
> Regimental Association
> > >History, and new hard cover edition. Documents
> include Service Books, short
> > >History 79 Div. Photos of Canadian and British
> Girls, Mementoes etc,
> > >Artifacts have a mint condition noncut out set of
> 1 CAR Flashes, Formation
> > >Patches which includes Pacific Force Formation.
> Trooper Volunteered for
> > >Pacific Force came home early granted leave and
> war ended while he was on
> > >leave.
> > >   A few pictures of Belgium/Netherlands but a
> fair amount of a laagered
> > >Troop, some minor parades on Regimental photo all
> taken in Netherlands
> > >after
> > >cease fire NWE.
> > >   Many of photos also show after Regiment stood
> down some personnel wound
> > >up
> > >in England at a Armored Replacement Depot ROC.
> Photos identify unit and
> > >very
> > >much the fact that most British Personnel  both
> Military  Civilian were
> > >female.
> > >   I catalogued those items into collection last
> fall. However as I have
> > >been
> > >laid off by Borden Museum I suggest you contact
> them directly
> > >
> > >    Keith Lawson
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: 
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:06 PM
> > >Subject: Kangaroos
> > >
> > >
> > > > Know any Kangaroos??
> > > > The 1st Canadian Armoured Personnel Carrier
> Regimental Association is
> > > > looking for former members of the 1CAPC, the
> 123LAD RCOC attached and
> > >the
> > > > 1CAPC Sigs Sqdn. The 1CAPC was unique in being
> the only Regiment which
> > >was
> > > > formed, fought and disbanded outside of
> Canada.
> > > > A tribute was established in Holland last year
> on a private initiative
> > >and
> > > > in Canada we are tryng to establish another
> memorial. The Kangaroos were
> > >RAM
> > > > tanks*, with the turret removed. These then
> functioned as battlefield
> > >taxis.
> > > > As part of the British 79th Div they were the
> first complete Canadian
> > > > fighting unit in Germany.
> > > > Any names and addresses can be passed to me
> for forwarding to the newly
> > > > formed association.
> > > >
> > > > Thnx,
> > > >
> > > > Clive M. Law
> > > >
> > > >  *The original Squadron used US-made Priest SP
> with the gun removed,
> > >hence
> > > > the nick-name ‘unfrocked‘ priests.
> > > >
>
--------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send
> a message
> > > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the
> account you wish
> > > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in
> the
> > > > message body.
> > >
> >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a
> message
> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account
> you wish
> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in
> the
> > >message body.
> > 
> >
>
______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at
>  http://www.hotmail.com 
> > 
> > -
>
--------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a
> message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account
> you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:21:42 -0800
> > From: "Bradley Sallows"
> 
> > Subject: Re: Kangaroos
> > 
> > >I Know of no Kangaroos in Canada
> > 
> > On one of the myriad AFV sites on the web Achtung
> Panzer!, I think, I saw a
> > reference including photo of a mob of Kangaroos
> sitting in a scrap yard in Spain
> > or Portugal.  Supposedly they may still be there.
> > 
> > Brad Sallows
> > 
> > -
>
--------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a
> message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account
> you 
=== message truncated ==
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
 http://im.yahoo.com 
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----------



## army

Posted by *"R Mayne" <rmayne@aztec-net.com>* on *Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:12:47 -0500*
I‘m looking for a few good men and women to help with my Cadet Corps,
someone who is dedicated to helping Canadian Youth become the leaders they
can be..... or you think they can be ........
Major Russ Mayne
905 877-8843
rmayne@aztec-net.com
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Gareth Green" <gareth@mail.caninet.com>* on *Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:48:01 -0800*
Where is your Corps located?
Green
----- Original Message -----
From: R Mayne 
To:  
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 28
> I‘m looking for a few good men and women to help with my Cadet Corps,
> someone who is dedicated to helping Canadian Youth become the leaders they
> can be..... or you think they can be ........
>
> Major Russ Mayne
> 905 877-8843
> rmayne@aztec-net.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Davis" <jcdavis@sympatico.ca>* on *Fri, 18 Feb 2000 06:16:11 -0500*
Hey Green, I think he‘s in the Toronto area, but the 905 area code covers a
spread from about St Cathrines/Niagara/Hamilton to the southern edge of
Toronto...more or less. As for exact location, I‘ll let Maj. Mayne take it
from there...I figured I‘d give you the general geographic idea as I‘m not
sure if you‘re from S. Ontario or not. If you are, then I appologize for
insulting your intelligence. If you‘re not, then I hope I‘ve helped at least
a little.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gareth Green" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 28
> Where is your Corps located?
> Green
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: R Mayne 
> >
> > I‘m looking for a few good men and women to help with my Cadet Corps,
> > someone who is dedicated to helping Canadian Youth become the leaders
they
> > can be..... or you think they can be ........
> >
> > Major Russ Mayne
> > 905 877-8843
> > rmayne@aztec-net.com
> >
> >
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:30:01 -0500*
--=====================_158358886==_.ALT
Brian my hands are clapping. Good on you. 6 up 12 down was my training also.
**********
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, ON N8R1E6,
Canada
ICQ  1256855
Phone- 1-519-735-2920 
--=====================_158358886==_.ALT
Brian my hands are clapping. Good on you. 6 up 12 down was
my training also. 
**********
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF
10330 Eastcourt Dr., 
Windsor, ON N8R1E6,
Canada
ICQ  1256855
Phone- 1-519-735-2920
--=====================_158358886==_.ALT--
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:29:40 -0500*
Mr. Brian Walford, formal eh??? Yes the Armouries are still just across 
from the bus station. When I was in the Windsor Regiment and on parade on 
Saturday mornings, it was tough breathing when that Sherman started up in a 
cloud and it drifted across the parade square and engulfed us all. Not a 
sound would come out of anyone tho‘. We sucked it up, like good troopers 
did. Ha. That was in 62. Then came the RCDs for 3 and then my present job.
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:38:46 -0500*
This is in regards to the Canadian Peacekeepers  Service Medal. If you 
qualify for the medal here is a site for application forms. Go to the 
address and then scroll all the way down and there is the title 
Applications.  Thanks to MCpl Frank Msztal CD for his Peacekeepers‘ page 
And this info.
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:11:36 -0500*
For some odd reason the address for the info on the CPSM did not go on to 
the Digest. I try again.
 http://pk.kos.net/cpsm.html 
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:34:38 -0500*
To Dave Willard. Dave, you and I watched the same parade. I from the RCD 
barracks as my arm was in a cast. My ancestry is Irish so you can 
understand when I say that when the pipes were heard by this, then, young 
soldier. I had goose bumbles all over and the pride that welled up inside 
me was something to behold. To watch the famed Black Watch in full parade 
dress, Blue balmorals, red hackles, white sporrans and spats, marching 6 
abreast not 3, and not a single man out of step, coming from their barracks 
was an especially beautiful site for a young soldier to see. I stand to be 
corrected but I think both the 1st and 2nd Battalions The Black Watch were 
on parade that day as, like you said there seemed to be a never ending line 
of marching men with sporrans swaying to the left and right as they 
marched. I‘m almost inclined to say there were two thousand men of The 
Black watch that marched onto the GOC‘s parade square that day. I can 
remember to this day of wanting to shout at the top of my voice of how so 
very proud they made me feel. Thanks Dave for bringing that back to me. I 
only put in three years but was and am very proud of that. Like you my 
oldest son spent six and a half years in The PPCLI and Airborne Regiment. I 
only wish he would have been able to see the same thing I did. My friend 
Larry MacDonald was on the parade square that day and I‘ll bet he felt the 
same way as we did. Audax Et Celer
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:27:55 -0500*
Hey Frank, take a deep breath. It all comes and goes so relax. As for 
Samolia, the Airborne wasn‘t in the role of peacekeepers there. They were 
sent as peacemakers. there is quite a difference. I know because I had my 
son in law there and 2 "adopted sons" there. I have a sign in front of me 
now and it says "Keep the Airborne-Disband the Liberals". I‘d dearly like 
to get my hands on that idiot Minister myself for the idiotic thing that he 
did. It‘s not pleasant when your son calls and is crying like a baby, on 
the day his Regiment was disbanded. Of course show me a politician that 
thinks he knows what he‘s doing and I‘ll show you a liar. Now you got me 
going.  Anyway Frank, I haven‘t seen this many posts on this means in a 
long time, so whatever is talked about, it‘s bringing people out of the 
woodwork. Have a nice day.
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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----------



## army

Posted by *"William J <andy> Anderson" <aanderson@sk.sympatico.ca>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:51:56 -0600*
on 13/3/00 14:27, my good friend Robert McGonigal at bobmcg@mnsi.net wrote:
> Anyway Frank, I haven‘t seen this many posts on this means in a
> long time, so whatever is talked about, it‘s bringing people out of the
> woodwork. Have a nice day.
here here! Good point Robert!
arte et marte
andy sends:
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Larry MacDonald" <lmacdona@mnsi.net>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:21:44 -0500*
I recall the parade also, and yes it did stir a real sense of pride.  Those
were the days of having regimental bands and getting goose bumps when the
march past was played.
On that note, there were a couple of incidents that I can still see in my
mind.  One was the conflict between the regimental bands during the march
past.  I was RCD at the time and we were preceded by the RCHA and being
followed by the RHR Black Watch.  We were marching along and as we
approached the reviewing stand, the RCD band played our march past and as we
were passing the reviewing stand, the RHR Pipes and Drums started which as
you know, was at a different cadence  than the others. If you were in one of
the last ranks, immediately in front of the pipes and drums, it had a
disconcerting impact on your marching.  The other was watching a change step
occurring as it rippled through the in line marching regiments.  I often
wonder what would have happened if we had a rifle regiment on parade also.
Good memories.
Regards
Larry MacDonald
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> [mailtowner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca]On Behalf Of Robert McGonigal
> Sent: March 13, 2000 10:35 AM
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: army-digest V1 64
>
>
>
> To Dave Willard. Dave, you and I watched the same parade. I from the RCD
> barracks as my arm was in a cast. My ancestry is Irish so you can
> understand when I say that when the pipes were heard by this, then, young
> soldier. I had goose bumbles all over and the pride that welled up inside
> me was something to behold. To watch the famed Black Watch in full parade
> dress, Blue balmorals, red hackles, white sporrans and spats, marching 6
> abreast not 3, and not a single man out of step, coming from
> their barracks
> was an especially beautiful site for a young soldier to see. I
> stand to be
> corrected but I think both the 1st and 2nd Battalions The Black
> Watch were
> on parade that day as, like you said there seemed to be a never
> ending line
> of marching men with sporrans swaying to the left and right as they
> marched. I‘m almost inclined to say there were two thousand men of The
> Black watch that marched onto the GOC‘s parade square that day. I can
> remember to this day of wanting to shout at the top of my voice of how so
> very proud they made me feel. Thanks Dave for bringing that back to me. I
> only put in three years but was and am very proud of that. Like you my
> oldest son spent six and a half years in The PPCLI and Airborne
> Regiment. I
> only wish he would have been able to see the same thing I did. My friend
> Larry MacDonald was on the parade square that day and I‘ll bet he
> felt the
> same way as we did. Audax Et Celer
>
>
>
>
>
>
> R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
> 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
> Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
> 1-519-735-2920
> ICQ  1256855
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"rclark" <rclark@autobahn.mb.ca>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:26:48 -0800*
    Concentration in Wainwright in 1961. Just finished trades training in
Vimy.  Snotty nosed 18 just year old.  Memory is really foggy, but do
remember RCHA, Queens Own, PPCLI. LdSH forgive me my sins if that is
abbreviated wrongly and many others.  In those days it was a Brigade but I
suppose that today it would be a Division.  Did basic in Gagetown with the
Black Watch and still thought that only barbarians marched faster than 104
and wore trousers.  Still do as a matter of fact. Was terrified of L/Cpl‘s,
and hid from Sgt. Mjr‘s.  In those days, that was a sign of intelligence.
Thanks for the memories guys.  Take care and God bless.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry MacDonald" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: army-digest V1 64
> I recall the parade also, and yes it did stir a real sense of pride.
Those
> were the days of having regimental bands and getting goose bumps when the
> march past was played.
>
> On that note, there were a couple of incidents that I can still see in my
> mind.  One was the conflict between the regimental bands during the march
> past.  I was RCD at the time and we were preceded by the RCHA and being
> followed by the RHR Black Watch.  We were marching along and as we
> approached the reviewing stand, the RCD band played our march past and as
we
> were passing the reviewing stand, the RHR Pipes and Drums started which as
> you know, was at a different cadence  than the others. If you were in one
of
> the last ranks, immediately in front of the pipes and drums, it had a
> disconcerting impact on your marching.  The other was watching a change
step
> occurring as it rippled through the in line marching regiments.  I often
> wonder what would have happened if we had a rifle regiment on parade also.
>
> Good memories.
>
> Regards
>
> Larry MacDonald
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > [mailtowner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca]On Behalf Of Robert McGonigal
> > Sent: March 13, 2000 10:35 AM
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: army-digest V1 64
> >
> >
> >
> > To Dave Willard. Dave, you and I watched the same parade. I from the RCD
> > barracks as my arm was in a cast. My ancestry is Irish so you can
> > understand when I say that when the pipes were heard by this, then,
young
> > soldier. I had goose bumbles all over and the pride that welled up
inside
> > me was something to behold. To watch the famed Black Watch in full
parade
> > dress, Blue balmorals, red hackles, white sporrans and spats, marching 6
> > abreast not 3, and not a single man out of step, coming from
> > their barracks
> > was an especially beautiful site for a young soldier to see. I
> > stand to be
> > corrected but I think both the 1st and 2nd Battalions The Black
> > Watch were
> > on parade that day as, like you said there seemed to be a never
> > ending line
> > of marching men with sporrans swaying to the left and right as they
> > marched. I‘m almost inclined to say there were two thousand men of The
> > Black watch that marched onto the GOC‘s parade square that day. I can
> > remember to this day of wanting to shout at the top of my voice of how
so
> > very proud they made me feel. Thanks Dave for bringing that back to me.
I
> > only put in three years but was and am very proud of that. Like you my
> > oldest son spent six and a half years in The PPCLI and Airborne
> > Regiment. I
> > only wish he would have been able to see the same thing I did. My friend
> > Larry MacDonald was on the parade square that day and I‘ll bet he
> > felt the
> > same way as we did. Audax Et Celer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
> > 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
> > Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
> > 1-519-735-2920
> > ICQ  1256855
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
>
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## army

Posted by *"Bruce Williams" <Williabr@uregina.ca>* on *Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:27:52 -0600*
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry MacDonald" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: army-digest V1 64
> I recall the parade also, and yes it did stir a real sense of pride.
Those
> were the days of having regimental bands and getting goose bumps when the
> march past was played.
>
If you were in one of
> the last ranks, immediately in front of the pipes and drums, it had a
> disconcerting impact on your marching.  The other was watching a change
step
> occurring as it rippled through the in line marching regiments.  I often
> wonder what would have happened if we had a rifle regiment on parade also.
I can tell you exactly what happens. I started my soldiering days in
Winnipeg with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles. On any garrison parade we had the
Fort Garry Horse in front of us with no band and the Queens Own Cameron
Highlanders with pipes and drums behind us while we had a brass band vice
the traditional drums and bugles.
It was a real juggling act. We would step short so the Garries could get
ahead the our band would step the pace up from 120 to the Regimental pace of
140 which the Garries would try and ignore as we closed the distance. This
conveniently put us well ahead of the Camerons who then would slow down to
the pipes and drums by which time we were trying to slow down to 120 and
stepping short so the Camerons could catch up. Somehow it all seemed to work
out.
The other fun thing was small arms drill. as a Rifle Regiment we did things
a bit differently than the rest of the Army. Back in the Lee Enfield days we
didn‘t slope arms but carried them at the trail. we also used the trail with
the FN C1 especially when we did a double past..there was a fun
time....doubling along in column of companies trying to maintain our
dressing. The other drill movement with the FN that caused confusion was
that we presented arms from the order instead of the shoulder and reduced it
to two drill movements instead of three. It was always a hoot when one of
our officers was on a parade with other units and forgot to order shoulder
arms before presenting arms.
Bruce Williams
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## army

Posted by *"Armand \JAS\ Haley" <haley@igs.net>* on *Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:13:18 -0500*
Korea Medals.
The newest medal  was the "Canadian Volunteer Service Medal for
Korea", issued to
recognize our "Volunteer Service".
The "Korea Medal" is the official designation of the medal issued to
Canadians, however, most veterans of the war refer it as the  "Korean
War Medal"
Jas Haley
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## army

Posted by *"Lawson" <kplawson@csolve.net>* on *Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:45:33 -0800*
Bob  Frank:
   The destruction of the Airborne was a disgrace, but always remember the
Regiment had little or no help from the Green Gaggle only Field personnel
and not all Arms people ether rose to its defense. The politically correct
civil servants cheered, a disruptive influence  real soldiers were being
done away with, politically correct yes men rose fast.
  Also remember how in late 60s the men who wore Fort Garry House, The
Canadian Highland Regiment  The Black Watch,  1st 7 2nd Bn.,  The Queens
Own Rifles of Canada 1st  2nd Bn, The Canadian Guards 1st  2nd Bn, The
Royal Canadian Army Service Corps, The Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps,
The Royal Canadian Army Ordnance Corps, The Royal Canadian Army Electrical
Mechanical Engineers, The Canadian Provost Corps, and The Canadian
Intelligence Corps, all felt about the loss of their identity.
   Many retired, many hung on and attempted to hold some expertise, "God
bless em". My hat remains off to CEME for at least getting some of it back.
And to  All Ranks of The Regiments, Battalions and most of all the Battle
Schools for holding on to what they did manage to retain.
                                 Recruits can hold their "Time Out Cards" up
any time now.
   The politically correct of the day jumped on the Tri Service band wagon,
many rank and file looked at the immediate monetary rewards of being classed
with the Civil Service. We really needed the Empire builders of the period
who put career over service loyalty as we wound up with such things as The
Administration Branch and Training Command. The Arm Chair Generals clapped,
and following them, the two year in a field posting get your ticket punched
group, has replaced the Identity, loyalty  to peers subordinates, and
command that comes with a strong sense of total worth and particularly the
Esprit de Core of the destroyed Royal Canadian Army.
     This was the Army that between 1960 and 67 was good enough to take any
military competition it entered from Tank Gunnery to Cooking, and sports
went bad either. Who remembers that in the early 60s the first Canadian
Hockey team in Moscow  stationed there were basically RCASC Personnel
 Okay a few C Pro C
    I never served  with The Airborne, managed two tours with the SSF, and
"I would always prefer to eat **** with a Trooper then a beef steak with the
politically correct SOBs who destroyed a battle ready force". Always
Remember it was the presently in power political party who for the best of
small " l" reasons did most of the damage.  Oh well that‘s what you get when
you political leaders make long term decisions on only current opinion
polls.
  By the way always ready to back up my opinions with examples of waste of
both good personnel, equipment or money, by example of names dates and
locations.
 For the lads serving now "God Bless and watch not only your front" and just
to prove it not happens to us suggested back ground reading would be "Late
Sgt Major" a poem by Kipling.
NIL SINE LABORE
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert McGonigal 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 66
>
>
> Hey Frank, take a deep breath. It all comes and goes so relax. As for
> Samolia, the Airborne wasn‘t in the role of peacekeepers there. They were
> sent as peacemakers. there is quite a difference. I know because I had my
> son in law there and 2 "adopted sons" there. I have a sign in front of me
> now and it says "Keep the Airborne-Disband the Liberals". I‘d dearly like
> to get my hands on that idiot Minister myself for the idiotic thing that
he
> did. It‘s not pleasant when your son calls and is crying like a baby, on
> the day his Regiment was disbanded. Of course show me a politician that
> thinks he knows what he‘s doing and I‘ll show you a liar. Now you got me
> going.  Anyway Frank, I haven‘t seen this many posts on this means in a
> long time, so whatever is talked about, it‘s bringing people out of the
> woodwork. Have a nice day.
>
>
>
>
>
> R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
> 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
> Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
> 1-519-735-2920
> ICQ  1256855
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:16:51 -0500*
Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it 
comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the reason 
I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If 
all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on  probably the 
greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form 
experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If 
all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then 
you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally 
disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was shown 
on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a whole 
lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated 
incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in 
Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the 
last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in 
different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being 
embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my 
opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up 
royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly. 
Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls to 
do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later 
problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t 
ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were 
nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you 
better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making 
statements like you have been. Regards
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:43:46 -0500*
I believe that the Liberals, had previously decided to disband the Airborne
Regiment, due to its obselesence  as a means of saving money . Ultimatley
the "Somalia Affair", hastened the wheels into motion .
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McGonigal 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>
>Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
>comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the reason
>I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
>all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on  probably the
>greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
>experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
>all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
>you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
>disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was shown
>on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a whole
>lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
>incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
>Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
>last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
>different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
>embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
>opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
>royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
>Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls to
>do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
>problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
>ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
>nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
>better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
>statements like you have been. Regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
>10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
>Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
>1-519-735-2920
>ICQ  1256855
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:27:55 -0800*
>had previously decided to disband the Airborne Regiment, due to its obselesence
 as a means of saving money .
There was nothing obsolete about the CAR.  Airborne is simply a means of
delivery and certainly isn‘t all the CAR, or any similar unit, is about.
Perhaps disbanding the CAR was simply part of the cost of re-establishing the
regular regiments‘ third battalions.  I suspect the CAR had many fewer
proponents in the halls of power than the three regular infantry regiments.
>Ultimatley the "Somalia Affair", hastened the wheels into motion .
Politicians are rarely so transparent.  This was simply the excuse presented for
public consumption.
Brad Sallows
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:33:39 -0500*
Obsolete in the sense that there was absolutley no use for them !
-----Original Message-----
From: Bradley Sallows 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>
>
>>had previously decided to disband the Airborne Regiment, due to its
obselesence
> as a means of saving money .
>
>There was nothing obsolete about the CAR.  Airborne is simply a means of
>delivery and certainly isn‘t all the CAR, or any similar unit, is about.
>Perhaps disbanding the CAR was simply part of the cost of re-establishing
the
>regular regiments‘ third battalions.  I suspect the CAR had many fewer
>proponents in the halls of power than the three regular infantry regiments.
>
>>Ultimatley the "Somalia Affair", hastened the wheels into motion .
>
>Politicians are rarely so transparent.  This was simply the excuse
presented for
>public consumption.
>
>Brad Sallows
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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## army

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:00:05 -0800*
>Obsolete in the sense that there was absolutley no use for them !
Why?  Everyone clings to the incorrect argument that airborne have no place on
the modern battlefield without recognizing despite it being pointed out
repeatedly that it is specifically mass airborne brigade and divisional drops
that is at risk.  There is still a place for company and even battalion
operations.
The CAR was by most accounts a highly-trained light infantry unit.  Is there
really no use for highly-trained light infantry who are proficient with various
means of insertion into battlefield situations, whether by parachute,
helicopter, or boat, and comfortable operating unsupported in unfriendly
territory for long periods of time?  The fact that ours happened to have a
particular attachment to parachutes was incidental.
While the usefulness of parachute delivery has diminished there are few
circumstances in which in would not be preferable to use helicopters, I submit
we should have at least one unit with a level of expertise and readiness
somewhere between our regular infantry and JTF2, without dividing it 3 ways
between the regular regiments.
I think it is widely recognized among the world‘s armies that elite forces are
often subject to "law-unto-themselves" syndrome.  It is up to leaders to control
the tendency for that to become a destructive force.
Brad Sallows
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:12:52 -0500*
OK AGREED !
-----Original Message-----
From: Bradley Sallows 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>
>
>>Obsolete in the sense that there was absolutley no use for them !
>
>Why?  Everyone clings to the incorrect argument that airborne have no place
on
>the modern battlefield without recognizing despite it being pointed out
>repeatedly that it is specifically mass airborne brigade and divisional
drops
>that is at risk.  There is still a place for company and even battalion
>operations.
>
>The CAR was by most accounts a highly-trained light infantry unit.  Is
there
>really no use for highly-trained light infantry who are proficient with
various
>means of insertion into battlefield situations, whether by parachute,
>helicopter, or boat, and comfortable operating unsupported in unfriendly
>territory for long periods of time?  The fact that ours happened to have a
>particular attachment to parachutes was incidental.
>
>While the usefulness of parachute delivery has diminished there are few
>circumstances in which in would not be preferable to use helicopters, I
submit
>we should have at least one unit with a level of expertise and readiness
>somewhere between our regular infantry and JTF2, without dividing it 3 ways
>between the regular regiments.
>
>I think it is widely recognized among the world‘s armies that elite forces
are
>often subject to "law-unto-themselves" syndrome.  It is up to leaders to
control
>the tendency for that to become a destructive force.
>
>Brad Sallows
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Steve Kuervers" <skuervers@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:31:45 PST*
I agree about the press part.  The most important quote
I can remember from a senior officer was from Gen Dalaire,
and it was "Never forget that the press are there for one
reason and one reason only... to make money" possibly
paraphrased a bit.  News exists for one reason and one
reason only... to sell advertising and airtime to advertisers
who want us to listen.  News about the army draws viewers
and listeners, and therefore advertising money.  Sensational
news about the army or CF draws more people than run of the
mill ‘pat on the back‘ stuff.
Steve
>From: Robert McGonigal 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:16:51 -0500
>
>
>Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
>comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the reason
>I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
>all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on  probably the
>greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
>experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
>all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
>you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
>disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was shown
>on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a whole
>lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
>incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
>Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
>last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
>different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
>embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
>opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
>royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
>Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls to
>do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
>problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
>ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
>nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
>better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
>statements like you have been. Regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
>10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
>Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
>1-519-735-2920
>ICQ  1256855
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at  http://www.hotmail.com 
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----------



## army

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:48:40 -0700*
It‘s been awhile since I served the howitzers of **** , however, isn‘t
the senior Regt of the senior corps in the Army, 1 RCHA of the Royal
Regt of Canadian Artillery...when did you serve the Guns?  
One again, I disagree.  You have not articulated any logical reason to
prevent me or anyone else from stating my their opinion of the
disbandment of the Airborne Regt.  I think the disbandment was the right
thing to do.  How much of the hazing rituals do I have to I see to
"misunderstand" what was going on?  How much worse can the media make
the tapes taken in Somalia??  Was Somalia an isolated incident within
our military, no I wasn‘t.  In modern history post WWII/Korea I would
hope that Canadians would not take a prisoner and brutally beat and
murder him yes, a real Kodak moment!.  I can tell you it would not
happen, would not be covered up, if I was in charge of that pl or coy or
the bn.  I hope I can speak for the Sr NCOs and WOs out there.  
The other Regt you refer to is, no doubt, the R22R, the teflon
Regt...they were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing.  As for
the teflon part, I don‘t think so either unless you have proof. 
Anyone who doesn‘t think the Airborne had a strong lobby within the Army
leading up to its disbandment is sadly mistaken.  
I agree it was only a few bad apples that created most of the problems,
however, there was a problem in the Regt...Officers unable to command
and NCOs that didnt‘ back up the officers and the men stuck in a
machismo mystic that ran wild.  True it is my perception, however, it is
the perception of most of my peers, subordinates, superiors, and more
importantly, The Canadian Public, who, by the way, is my ultimate
Commander in Chief. All throught the 80s they were refered to as
"animals".  No, it wasn‘t an term of endearment.  Oh sorry, we don‘t
understand, we aren‘t qualified to make our own independent evaluation
of the situation...it was all a misunderstanding based on those jealous
of their "elite" status.  
Did the antimalaria drugs exasperate the situation?  I don‘t necessarily
disagree with one of the previous posts.  Perhaps it was the straw that
broke the camels back and it manifested itself with MCpl Matchee and Pte
Brown.  But I restate...where was the other Ptes, Cpls, and
MCpls...where was the Sgt, WO, MWO, Capt, Maj and LCol?  Were screams
across the compound a routine thing?  I‘m just a "leg" but the screams
would peak my curiousity!
Anyway, I think our debate could continue for an extremely long time.  I
may argue it was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but, no
soldier should ever have to see his Regt disbanded.  It was a sad
chapter in the Canadian Army.
Gunner Sends....  
Robert McGonigal wrote:
> 
> Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
> comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the reason
> I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
> all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on  probably the
> greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
> experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
> all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
> you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
> disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was shown
> on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a whole
> lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
> incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
> Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
> last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
> different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
> embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
> opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
> royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
> Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls to
> do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
> problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
> ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
> nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
> better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
> statements like you have been. Regards
> 
> R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
> 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
> Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
> 1-519-735-2920
> ICQ  1256855
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:53:28 -0500*
WELL STATED GUNNER !
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunner 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>It‘s been awhile since I served the howitzers of **** , however, isn‘t
>the senior Regt of the senior corps in the Army, 1 RCHA of the Royal
>Regt of Canadian Artillery...when did you serve the Guns?
>
>One again, I disagree.  You have not articulated any logical reason to
>prevent me or anyone else from stating my their opinion of the
>disbandment of the Airborne Regt.  I think the disbandment was the right
>thing to do.  How much of the hazing rituals do I have to I see to
>"misunderstand" what was going on?  How much worse can the media make
>the tapes taken in Somalia??  Was Somalia an isolated incident within
>our military, no I wasn‘t.  In modern history post WWII/Korea I would
>hope that Canadians would not take a prisoner and brutally beat and
>murder him yes, a real Kodak moment!.  I can tell you it would not
>happen, would not be covered up, if I was in charge of that pl or coy or
>the bn.  I hope I can speak for the Sr NCOs and WOs out there.
>
>The other Regt you refer to is, no doubt, the R22R, the teflon
>Regt...they were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing.  As for
>the teflon part, I don‘t think so either unless you have proof.
>Anyone who doesn‘t think the Airborne had a strong lobby within the Army
>leading up to its disbandment is sadly mistaken.
>
>I agree it was only a few bad apples that created most of the problems,
>however, there was a problem in the Regt...Officers unable to command
>and NCOs that didnt‘ back up the officers and the men stuck in a
>machismo mystic that ran wild.  True it is my perception, however, it is
>the perception of most of my peers, subordinates, superiors, and more
>importantly, The Canadian Public, who, by the way, is my ultimate
>Commander in Chief. All throught the 80s they were refered to as
>"animals".  No, it wasn‘t an term of endearment.  Oh sorry, we don‘t
>understand, we aren‘t qualified to make our own independent evaluation
>of the situation...it was all a misunderstanding based on those jealous
>of their "elite" status.
>
>Did the antimalaria drugs exasperate the situation?  I don‘t necessarily
>disagree with one of the previous posts.  Perhaps it was the straw that
>broke the camels back and it manifested itself with MCpl Matchee and Pte
>Brown.  But I restate...where was the other Ptes, Cpls, and
>MCpls...where was the Sgt, WO, MWO, Capt, Maj and LCol?  Were screams
>across the compound a routine thing?  I‘m just a "leg" but the screams
>would peak my curiousity!
>
>Anyway, I think our debate could continue for an extremely long time.  I
>may argue it was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but, no
>soldier should ever have to see his Regt disbanded.  It was a sad
>chapter in the Canadian Army.
>
>Gunner Sends....
>
>
>
>Robert McGonigal wrote:
>>
>> Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
>> comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the
reason
>> I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
>> all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on  probably the
>> greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
>> experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
>> all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
>> you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
>> disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was
shown
>> on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a
whole
>> lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
>> incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
>> Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
>> last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
>> different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
>> embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
>> opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
>> royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
>> Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls
to
>> do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
>> problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
>> ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
>> nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
>> better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
>> statements like you have been. Regards
>>
>> R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
>> 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
>> Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
>> 1-519-735-2920
>> ICQ  1256855
>>
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## army

Posted by *"William J <andy> Anderson" <aanderson@sk.sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:16:38 -0600*
on 15/3/00 20:48, Gunner at randr1@home.com wrote:
> One again, I disagree.  You have not articulated any logical reason to
> prevent me or anyone else from stating my their opinion of the
> disbandment of the Airborne Regt.  I think the disbandment was the right
> thing to do.  How much of the hazing rituals do I have to I see to
> "misunderstand" what was going on?  How much worse can the media make
> the tapes taken in Somalia??  Was Somalia an isolated incident within
> our military, no I wasn‘t.  In modern history post WWII/Korea I would
> hope that Canadians would not take a prisoner and brutally beat and
> murder him yes, a real Kodak moment!.  I can tell you it would not
> happen, would not be covered up, if I was in charge of that pl or coy or
> the bn.  I hope I can speak for the Sr NCOs and WOs out there.
I‘m not sure that anyone is trying take away your right to ‘state your
opinion‘. You do, however, continue the enuedo that the murder of the
prisoner was going to be ‘covered up‘ I don‘t think this was ever proven. It
was a tradgedy and needed to be dealt with. End of episode.
> 
> The other Regt you refer to is, no doubt, the R22R, the teflon
> Regt...they were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing.  As for
> the teflon part, I don‘t think so either unless you have proof.
> Anyone who doesn‘t think the Airborne had a strong lobby within the Army
> leading up to its disbandment is sadly mistaken.
Should we read ‘Cover up‘ here? Anyone who thinks the Airborne lobby is
anywhere near as strong as the Van Doo mafia is also sadly mistaken.
> 
> I agree it was only a few bad apples that created most of the problems,
> however, there was a problem in the Regt...Officers unable to command
> and NCOs that didnt‘ back up the officers and the men stuck in a
> machismo mystic that ran wild.  True it is my perception, however, it is
> the perception of most of my peers, subordinates, superiors, and more
> importantly, The Canadian Public, who, by the way, is my ultimate
> Commander in Chief. All throught the 80s they were refered to as
> "animals".  No, it wasn‘t an term of endearment.  Oh sorry, we don‘t
> understand, we aren‘t qualified to make our own independent evaluation
> of the situation...it was all a misunderstanding based on those jealous
> of their "elite" status.
Granted it is your perception. It is the perception of people that you know.
My perception is different, as is the perception of my peers, subordinates
and superiors at the time of the incident. The canadian public is too easily
swayed by media and bleeding hearts to ever be an effected ‘comander in
chief‘ as you call them. I‘m not saying you don‘t understand, I‘m saying
you‘re being judgemental. By your own admission, you looked at some tapes,
read some hogwash and made a judgement. Right or wrong, nobody can take away
your right to do that.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I think our debate could continue for an extremely long time.  I
> may argue it was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but, no
> soldier should ever have to see his Regt disbanded.  It was a sad
> chapter in the Canadian Army.
The sadder chapter, was the way everyone cried foul when they jumped on the
anti-airborne bandwagon, and in the same breath cry foul when it was
disbaned. Fence sitting? Now that, is a truly Canadian stance!
arte et marte
andy sends 
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## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:04:12 -0500*
To Gunner, I apologize. You‘re right about the Artillery being senior.  I 
am so used to saying it to my son and son in law who was and is in the 
PPCLI. Armoured and Infantry rivalry. Your mind is set on what you think so 
no matter what I or anyone else says, will sway you. Your hindsight is good 
although I would really like to have seen you in the Airborne and act the 
way you say you would. You and I will never know.
         A couple more memories!
         How about ironing the BD on your barrack box with blanket, wool, 
red for one, as the pad and as was said, cotton dish towel, wet, so the BD 
wouldn‘t burn from the iron, even if the iron was a steam iron. To this day 
I still do the ironing around here as I do it better than my wife. She‘ll 
tell you that, hmmmmm maybe she‘s outsmarted me!!!  31 years worth of being 
outsmarted!!!! I‘ll have to speak with her. I still have my Battledress but 
because it was left in the box for so long it shrunk. My TWs also. Can‘t 
understand it at all.
         I remember when a company of US Marines came to Gagetown to do 
winter training. They stayed in our shack and took over our rooms. Just 
before they left us, they cleaned everything plus waxed and polished the 
floors, including the hallway floors, which were never waxed and polished 
by us. Needless to say when trying to walk on those floors with dress boots 
on it was like watching a bunch of kids learning to skate. Two and a half 
soles with horseshoe cleats and some with hob nails. Weeeeeeeeeee.
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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## army

Posted by *Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net>* on *Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:21:26 -0500*
         More memories I remember whilst practicing for a big parade, just 
how much authority the RSM had in the Regiment. The officers were on parade 
drilling with us peons and we had been going at it for a good amount of 
time. The RSM was running the drill and during a break, a Captain, whose 
name I can‘t remember, said to Scarpy, "Regimental Sgt. Major, I think the 
officers have had enough drill for now". The RSM, who was well liked by the 
men of the Regiment, endeared himself even more to us, when he said," No 
sir I don‘t think so", and just as he said they kept on practicing with the 
rest of us.
         I also remember doing an orders parade as an escort and Scarpy 
marched the accused and myself into the Colonel‘s office. I don‘t think my 
feet ever moved as fast as they did when he barked out the cadence. I felt 
as if I was up on charge also. The Colonel LT. Colonel Pat Grieve gave 
the usual," 30 days without a doubt, Sgt. Major march them out".  Battle 
Dress on an orders parade, in an office that seemed to be 95 degrees, makes 
ones body loose water content and ones mouth becomes very, very dry.
         Larry might remember the fellow that did basic with us. He was the 
one who we would try to get him to march without the arms matching the legs 
when marching. We used broom handles and marched behind him to try to break 
him of his awkward habit. I don‘t think he made it through basic training.
>         Anyway another couple of memories to add to the bunch.   Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ  1256855
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## army

Posted by *"Gerry Bourgeois" <gerrybourgeois@sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:52:11 -0400*
thanks for your feed back on this matter.  I am trying to organize the
largest Cadet Corps reunion in Canada at Camp Ipperwash.
If any of you can help in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.
Gerry Bourgeois, Commandant
Ipperwash Reunion 2001
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## army

Posted by *R Charette in Silicon Valley <charette@computer.org>* on *Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:02:47 -0700*
Gerry:
Could you deactivate your "request for a reply" option on your email
software? It‘s kind of "non-standard" to ask for one, and I‘m sure most
don‘t like it.
Just a feedback.
-- RC
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## army

Posted by *"Gerry Bourgeois" <gerrybourgeois@sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:19:54 -0400*
Request for reply closed.
Thanks
Gerry
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## army

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:16:31 -0600*
--------------E8E14530DD3DD9F62AFBC9C0
Gerry,
        Please feel free to contact me, I was involved in both of the
Vernon Army Cadet Camp reunions in 1994 and ‘99. Much to let you know
about. Drop me a line at my email address with your phone  if you don‘t
mind, way too much to type. -
Francois
Gerry Bourgeois wrote:
> thanks for your feed back on this matter.  I am trying to organize the
> largest Cadet Corps reunion in Canada at Camp Ipperwash.
>
> If any of you can help in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Gerry Bourgeois, Commandant
> Ipperwash Reunion 2001
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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--------------E8E14530DD3DD9F62AFBC9C0
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
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## army

Posted by *"Gerry Bourgeois" <gerrybourgeois@sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:52:12 -0400*
Bonjour Francois:
Mon numero telephone:
416: 530-7496
Ci vous etes plus confortables en francais, pas de problem.
Gerry
If you are more comfortable in French or English, no problem
Gerry
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## army

Posted by *james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com* on *Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:46:30 -0400*
Salut, RC,
My understanding of the phrase "Je me souviens" is that its source is a 19th
century poem
which in English tranlated:  "I remember though I was born under the lily, I
flourished under the rose"
Lily = France, rose = England.  As far as the interpretation of "rose" and
"lily", givent the symbols used
by both those countries, it is a fairly reasonable assumption.
I didn‘t mean to imply that the phrase solely refers to the French withdrawal -
I realize I wrote that poorly - but if the above source is
correct, it does refer to remembering both sides of the heritage of Quebec.  The
poem, at any rate, reflects a more
ambiguous view of life in Quebec under British rule.  I only wanted to make the
point to some on this net that the phrase,
insomuch as it is sourced from the above poem - is a lot more nuanced than most
today would like to see it.
In the end, of course you‘re right - its an interpretation of a phrase
attributed to a poem which itself needs to be interpreted.
If you say that the phrase does not come from that poem, I can‘t arque - I only
know what I‘ve read, so if the source is in dispute, so be it.
After all, its not exactly an uncommon phrase.  On the other hand, if it does
come from that poem, than it is not an impossible stretch to view it
as a positive comment on life in lower Canada after French rule.
As for "it is certainly not up the English-Canadians to tell us what to think of
France‘s behaviour to give up
Nouvelle-France. It‘s up to French-Canadians to make their own homeworks and
decide by themselves what they want to think of it."
I wasn‘t telling you what to think - I was giving you my interpretation of what
French Canadiens thought in the 19th century.  I may be wrong,
and if you have any sources that counter my interpretation, I am genuinely
interested in reading it.  I hope you aren‘t advocating that the only ones
entitled to study and comment on Quebec history are French-Canadiens.  From my
reading of history, there was not a lot of love lost between the leaders in
Quebec at that time and France - and that was from a course I took with a
decidedly sovereignist professor.
Je m‘excuse, que je n‘est pas ecrit mon reponse en francais - j‘ai besoin
beaucoup de pratique, et je manque le vocubulaire et grammaire
pour un reponse propre en francais.  Si je ne suis pas clair en anglais, je
ferai certainnemant des erreurs en francais!
A bien tt,
James
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## army

Posted by *R Charette in Silicon Valley <charette@computer.org>* on *Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:09:38 -0700*
No problems James. Thanks for reply. That was truly appreciated. I just
in fact got out of an argument with one of my French-Canadian FC
friend who‘s totally nationalistic in nature. I‘m much more on the
"canadian" side of things. I guess my point was merely to mention that
it‘s still a pretty hot topic around. I wouldn‘t be surprised that many
FCs consider the interpretation of "Je Me Souviens" a FC exercise
although I disagree.
Moreover, thanks for the words in French. This is truly the sign of a
21st century Canadian which I hope I am as well.
More to come... 
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Knowledge Management Group          Phone: 408 543-5342
Scient                              Pager: 888 464-6711
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