# LEOPARD TANK QUESTION



## CougarKing (8 Dec 2005)

Hey all,

I was just wondering- does the CF's Leopard Tank have an automatic or manual transmission? I've been trying to clarify this simple detail but all the sites I look up are no help such as www.globalsecurity.org  I heard the American M1 Abrams tank has an automatic transmission. Thanks to anyone in advance.


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## George Wallace (8 Dec 2005)

It has an Automatic Transmission.

It is Super Charged, not Turbo Charged (as in those old CF Recruiting Ads).


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## Koenigsegg (8 Dec 2005)

It has already been said, but ja, it is automatic.  It can do a fair clip too!  Muwahahahaha!!
I just did the research (again), and for the extra weight we have put on the tank (more, higher quality armour and newer technologies) we sure did not do much, if anything to increase the power from the engine. Not that it matters too much.


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## Kat Stevens (8 Dec 2005)

830 HP Mercedes V10 Multi fuel powerpack, pushes that 46 tons along at a half decent speed.  On the tank track along red route, I got air in my AVLB (minus bridge).


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## extanker (8 Dec 2005)

Leo ARV at C SQN RCD/ A SQN 8CH had the old german shifttower.put in highest gear and go....or shift up and down manually based on engine speed. It would do 65 to 70 km/hr on flat blacktrack. 

3a would do 70 km/hr on flat and 75 km/hr downhill....yeeehaa
The OC would have s%$ his drawers if he knew the centre periscope dropped into my lap on that one.


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## George Wallace (9 Dec 2005)

I Jumped a road in Shuffield in 3B in '85 - ditch to ditch, trying to keep up to 3A.


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## Franko (9 Dec 2005)

Alrighty....automatic 4 speed tranny....I prefered the German Shift tower as well.

As for speed....had one pack do 83 km/h on flat ground. It was straight from Germany and it screamed.....the BC held on for dear life. Mind you that was in a C1 not a C2.

As for the ARV....73km/h was the best it could do.

As for specs....the engine is rated at 825BHP...not 830. Check the manuals.

Regards


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## mover1 (9 Dec 2005)

Things I hated to hear while sitting in the gunners seat as your booting cross country.....

"Hold On...."
"this is going to hurt"
"wait till I secure my coffee then gun it....."
"that looks like a good one lets take it........."
"this will wake him up...."
"hey look photographers......"

The Worst thing to hear was in the RMA and someone said "my god look at her" knowing the only view you had was of a gun sight or the CC nuts.


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## MacKenzie1NSH (9 Dec 2005)

what are supposed to happen to our leopards, now that the strikers are around?


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## George Wallace (9 Dec 2005)

There are as yet NO STRYKERS in the CF.

Our Leopards are in Wainwright.


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## George Wallace (9 Dec 2005)

mover1 said:
			
		

> The Worst thing to hear was in the RMA and someone said "my god look at her" knowing the only view you had was of a gun sight or the CC nuts.


What?   No Sky full of clouds through the episcope?


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## mover1 (9 Dec 2005)

Well there was that, the loaders feet, what ever you could see through the drivers web gear on the escape hatch  

gunners were goth before we knew it was cool, black eyes, bad posture, and pasty white faces........

Oh to have a time machine and do it all over again........


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## George Wallace (9 Dec 2005)

Well, Drivers were right out of Star Trek - Black on one side - White on the other.....  ;D


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## mover1 (9 Dec 2005)

Just as long as their antenna didn't break off........

Funniest thing I ever saw was 23 polevault in Mudslingen.....No stab at full bore.....I has him in my sights and wham he came to a dead stop....

The other great was Chuck (of the SUM 41 album fame) take the 3 knife edges on an obstacle course, wow was that hull ever damaged , it made the year book in 93, what a mess..


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## MacKenzie1NSH (9 Dec 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> There are as yet NO STRYKERS in the CF.



Do you mean that they are not in use yet, but we are still trainning on them or what? Because on my BMQ I had an ex-tanker, and he was extremly pissed off when ever someone mentioned them, and said how big of a waste they are...


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## Bzzliteyr (9 Dec 2005)

It is a semi automatic transmission in my eyes.

If I select gear 1 it will ONLY run in 1st gear.
If I select gear 2 it will ONLY run in 2nd gear.
If I select gear 3 it will run in 2nd and 3rd.
If I select gear 4 it will run in 2nd thru 4th.

The higher the gear, the wider the turn.  So new drivers need to learn to "gear down" by letting it drop from 4th to 2nd before turning their first corners, or it gets kind of scary.  Especially on the slalom portion of the driving circuit here in Gagetown!!!

And on a side note we have 8 tanks still at the school.


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## Kat Stevens (9 Dec 2005)

"As for specs....the engine is rated at 825BHP...not 830. Check the manuals."


From the Leopard C1 Operators Manual, AVLB:

830 HP @ 2200 RPM.


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## MacKenzie1NSH (9 Dec 2005)

yeah saw some guys playing around with them this summer up in Gagetown, some 2RCR guys took us to watch, and identify them as part of our tank/plain/helicoptor identification classes.


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## TCBF (9 Dec 2005)

"Our Leopards are in Wainwright."

- Yup.  So am I George.

 ;D

Tom


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## Bzzliteyr (9 Dec 2005)

To expand further on my answer, I have the Leo manual in pdf in front of me:

-Transmission-
Type: 4 Gear planetary type power shift and steering transmission with hydraulic torque converter.

Type of power-shift:  electro-hydraulic

And yes, it does say 830hp @2200 rpm.


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## TCBF (10 Dec 2005)

If my memory seves me well, it should say MB 838 CaM 500 for the engine and ZF101 ? tranny

The MB should be Maybach-Mercedes-Benz and ZF is Zahnradfabrik.

Am I close?

Tom


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## Franko (10 Dec 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> "As for specs....the engine is rated at 825BHP...not 830. Check the manuals."
> 
> 
> From the Leopard C1 Operators Manual, AVLB:
> ...



Key word is AVLB    

I had to memorise the damn specs in '93....and I seem to remember the Leo C 1 sitting in at 35.5 metric tons with full combat load.

Oh what fond memories....

Regards


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## TCBF (10 Dec 2005)

42,400 kg cbt loaded, 40,400 clean.

Tom


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## Bzzliteyr (10 Dec 2005)

Weights:

Empty weight 40400kg
Maximum combat weight 42400
Permissible total weight according to DIN 43000

Engine:

Type: MB 838 CaM-500 four stroke , multi fuel engine with precombustion chamber and mechanical superchargers.

All from the PDF off Documentum, used to teach the new drivers.


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## Kat Stevens (10 Dec 2005)

The ONLY difference between a MBT pack, and AEV, AVLB, or ARV pack, is the PTO plate bolted to the flywheel in order to engage the splined shaft on the sliding coupling of the hydraulic pump drive.  I know, because I had to memorize the specs in '90 with B sqn VIII CH on my D&M course.  And I drove/operated AEV and AVLB for 10 continuous years.  If you really want to measure pecker length over Leo stick time, bring it.  Coz it ain't got a gun on it, don't mean it ain't a leopard.   ;D


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## ZipperHead (10 Dec 2005)

I was, alas, on the same D&M course (top student!!!!!) as Franko, and I don't remember it EVER being taught as 825 HP. The reason I remember it being 830HP is because I remember that each cylinder (830/10=83 HP.... I know that is simplistic and likely wrong, but hey!! whatever it helps you remember things on a course.....) was bigger than the total HP of my VW Jetta (75HP). 

Regardless of this tiny example of picking fly-sh!t out of pepper (what's 5HP amongst friends?!??!), it was possible to go 100km/h (or faster, in theory) in the tanks with the German shift tower. Shawn McCrae (whom I bumped into the other day here in Gagtown.....he's a Veh Tech MCpl now) was driving one from ATP to WTP and coming down the big ass hill towards Sgt Ralph bridge area (don't remember if bridge was actually there at the time) he slipped it into neutral (no governing of engine that way) and let gravity take over. We were going so fast that: a) I thought that we were going to go back in time, b) we were going to die, and c) I was hoping that the track wouldn't break, because I didn't want to die next to Rod Crapper (Carper).

Ah, good times in Gagetown.

Speaking of tank war stories, and MWO Dave Corney (who is soon to retire.... he was mugged out yesterday prior to his retirement from the Reg Force (he is going to the PEIR after retirement): he and I were in a CUCV when we were in the QM (he was SQMS, I was his lackey). We were driving towards WTP from Telephone Corner direction when we got near Murphy Pit. A Meathead flagged us over and said "There's a big tank coming this way!!! Move off the road!!!!!!" We thought: "Psshaw!!! A tank!! Big freaking deal!!!!" Well wouldn't you know that there was a lowbed with a T72 on the back of it barrelling down the road. The driver was going so fast that he was doing the whole exagerated steering wheel left-right-left that you see when people are mimicking driving in the movies. Anyway, he cut the corner so tight to us that the ass end of the trailer came right at us, and the track of the T72, because it was overhanging the lowbed, clipped the cargo compartment on the truck. I, being the epitome of calm and collected, was curled up into Corney's lap, making my peace with God/Allah/Buddha or whomever would listen to my girl-like screams. 

I'm glad I have a jammy desk job now........

Al


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## Bzzliteyr (10 Dec 2005)

Al, good chuckle.. thanks.


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## George Wallace (10 Dec 2005)

I'm surprised after that story Al, that the MP didn't do the customary issuance of a Speeding Ticket to that Trucker for speeding in the Training Area.


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## Franko (11 Dec 2005)

Well....the poo dust and the acrid odour of the shyte pond must be getting to me.

Re-read my previous posts....    :

Oh well...we all make mistakes.

Regards


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## Armymedic (11 Dec 2005)

Franko, if I remember correctly, you were a toon on that course, and hence, your memory should not be trusted.    Al was top student cause he was the only student who didn't actually try to kill the instructors going over those knife edges.
Saying that I couldn't tell you what the HP of the power pack was from memory either...

As for this...


> Regardless of this tiny example of picking fly-sh!t out of pepper (what's 5HP amongst friends?!??!), it was possible to go 100km/h (or faster, in theory) in the tanks with the German shift tower. Shawn McCrae (whom I bumped into the other day here in Gagtown.....he's a Veh Tech MCpl now) was driving one from ATP to WTP and coming down the big *** hill towards Sgt Ralph bridge area (don't remember if bridge was actually there at the time) he slipped it into neutral (no governing of engine that way) and let gravity take over. We were going so fast that: a) I thought that we were going to go back in time, b) we were going to die, and c) I was hoping that the track wouldn't break, because I didn't want to die next to Rod Crapper (Carper).


I witnessed this. I believe it was in 92- 93, After RV but before the bridge. He almost ran right into the back end of the tank in front of him coming up the next little hill.
my 31B, with the new pack and suspension (remember the smaller idler wheel, souped up shocks) could easily do 60 km cross country.


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## Bzzliteyr (11 Dec 2005)

I can't seem to get the image of Al curled up in Corney's lap outta my head... MUAHAHAHA


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## Guy. E (12 Dec 2005)

i work with a man who was with the german army in Shilo before working where i am now. he said that the leopard 2's were capable of passing people on the highway. 

id love to see that. little honda getting blown by by a big green german tank


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## Koenigsegg (12 Dec 2005)

A little off the topic of Leopard 1s, but the Leopard 2 can also out accelerate a volvo (not saying much, but it is still cool).  Just don't try that on a road as you would a put pretty hole or pull quite a few feet of asphalt up.   :tank: >
If I had millions of dollars to blow I wouldn't buy a nice car and a house, I would buy a Leopard 2.


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## MacKenzie1NSH (13 Dec 2005)

Koenigsegg said:
			
		

> If I had millions of dollars to blow I wouldn't buy a nice car and a house, I would buy a Leopard 2.



Ha Ha Good choice


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## geo (13 Dec 2005)

who needs Miles per gallon when you can get Gallons to the mile


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## MacKenzie1NSH (14 Dec 2005)

Ok I know this is a stupid question, but does it make a tank go faster if it just happen to be, for some reason, shooting in the opposite direction? Like it is moving <--- that way and it was shooting ---> that way... Or would it just jolt it and make no real differance??


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## Bzzliteyr (14 Dec 2005)

it would just jolt it, as it does when you fire as you are moving forward.


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## Koenigsegg (14 Dec 2005)

The tanks weighs, what?  50 tons?  And it contains a 105mm cannon.
the 105mm towed artillery does not roll, or jump back at all when fire does it?
If not, I fail to see how a gun of the same calibre will increase the rate of movement of a block of metal that ways so much.


I only know what I have studied, I do not have any true experience, if you wish shoot this comment down, do by all means.
It will be a learning experience.


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## TCBF (14 Dec 2005)

The only thing you have to take into consideration is if you are firing on the move driving forward and your NBCD overpressure system is on.   If you have not flipped the SA cam on the gun and the breech opens and the cartridge case is ejected on run-out, the - assuming you are going 30km/h forward - 30 km/h column of air pushing down the gun tube may overwhelm the fume extractor (bore evacuator) and allow outside contaminated air (as well as propellent gases) into the turret.

No big deal if you remember that before you unmask.

 ;D

Tom


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## muskrat89 (15 Dec 2005)

> the 105mm towed artillery does not roll, or jump back at all when fire does it?



Of course it does. This energy is absorbed however, in 2 ways - Through the recoil system (not sure about the new Guns, but the C1 had a "Hydro-pneumatic, constant-dependent, employing a floating piston". In addidtion, one of the purposes of the trails/spades is to help tranfer energy to the ground. Almost every Gunner has had to dig/winch/pull Guns out, that had moved several feet backwards (due to recoil) and buried themselves up to the wheels....


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## TCBF (15 Dec 2005)

Notwithstanding the ability of the tank gun to recoil, then run-out into battery, the term "platform rock" describes what happens to the rest of the 42,400 kg.

Tom


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## Bzzliteyr (15 Dec 2005)

As I stated, it jolts the vehicle.. does not really speed it up nor slow it down perse, except for the driver's tendency to slack of the fuel pedal as he gets "hit" by the shock.  Most drivers get used to this after their first few gun camps and it is really not an issue.


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## TCBF (15 Dec 2005)

If, as a Trooper, you find yourself driving an M60A1 in Ft Hood in 1978, NEVER EVER EVER crack open the driver's hatch to let more light in the hole so you can read your paperback book better just before the main gun goes off over your head.

Results:

1.  Ears ringing for three days.
2.  Rubber seal blown off driver's hatch cover.
3.  Last 160 pages of book evenly distributed throughout the driver's compartment.
4.  Left lens from glasses blown out - found on floor under shift tower 45 minutes later.

Tom


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## Franko (15 Dec 2005)

:rofl:

God I needed that this morning.

Regards


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## geo (16 Dec 2005)

TCBF

Good one!!!!
(any need to change underwear?)


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## TCBF (16 Dec 2005)

"any need to change underwear?)"

- Didn't wear any.  No room under the specially tight crewsuits we drew to go to Texas in.

 ;D

Tom


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## Spr.Earl (16 Dec 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> If, as a Trooper, you find yourself driving an M60A1 in Ft Hood in 1978, NEVER EVER EVER crack open the driver's hatch to let more light in the hole so you can read your paperback book better just before the main gun goes off over your head.
> 
> Results:
> 
> ...



Tom, Mark stiil talks about that trip,the Band playing Garry Owen .But most of all was the 4 legged targets ;D


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## TCBF (17 Dec 2005)

it was like a gazillion degrees out.  At one point, waiting for our turn to move up to the pad, I dozed off on what I thought was a good spot leaning against the turret.  That hot old Texas sun rolled around the sky and came at me frontal.  My crewsuit zipper was down a bit, and it burnt this pasty mick kid up in about 20 minutes.  The sunburn followed the serations of my crewsuit zipper EXACTLY, and burned precisely around my I disc, and even through the holes in my I disc.  Hurt like heck.  I told no one.

After the incident where I foolishly cracked the hatch, i stayed in the hull like any other good Trooper trying to get out of humping tank ammo at 110 F. Then, after one particular main gun round, the park brake on the tank let go and it started rolling backwards.  So, I jump both feet onto the huge mother brake pedal.  The tank commander - Major Nurse - was relieved the tank stopped - as it was about to crush several Americans standing right behind it - but he did not know WHY it stopped.

"Wha?... Trooper _____, are you in your hole?"

Me; "Yessir."

Maj Nurse: " Good thing"

Trooper Smith (the tank gunner):  "He's hiding there sir, he should be humping ammo in the sun."

Maj Nurse:  "Trooper ____, why aren't you on ammo party?"

.....busted...

Tom


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