# Recommendations for a chest rig?



## Marlin (21 Mar 2009)

Hi, im deploying with PPCLI in september, this will be my first tour and im looking into purchasing a chest rig as im sure everyone in the CF knows the tac vest is a worthless pile of shit. ive asked a few buddys about recommendations, but im wondering what guys here who have gone overseas would recommend for a solid rig. 

Im a C9 gunner and backup driver for the LAV. Mag pouches wont be my primary concern as opposed to box pouches, but i suppose it the rig is modular then it wont be a problem.

anyways if youve found something to be the cats ass, please let me know


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## Michael OLeary (21 Mar 2009)

Have you thought about reviewing this thread for suggestions?


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## Marlin (21 Mar 2009)

the topic seemed to be more of a discussion about all rigs in general, i wanted to ask a specific question related to C9 vests, and hopefully not have to sort through almost 30 pages of random poking and prodding of different vests, the thought crossed my mind, but i thought better of it.
i was hoping instead for "hey i was a c9 gunner overseas, i had ___________ rig and it really worked out"


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## Michael OLeary (21 Mar 2009)

Well, how about this thread that I found by searching for threads less than 3 years old containing the words c9 chest rig?


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## Marlin (21 Mar 2009)

Seems like this page feels a lot like the other one. 2nd post gives a suggestion to check out CP gear, i am currently doing so, but otherwise continues on to the 2nd page with pointless debates usually involving several people telling cameron he has no military experience and should therefore not give advice, dropzone tactical in edmonton has also been pointed out to not support C9 rigs as much as riflemen.
As i had hoped before i could get a clear and easy answer instead of reading pointless posts, having a few gunners just say hey, this rig is good, you can find it here check it out still seems more practical than navigating the sea of posts.


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## Pointer (21 Mar 2009)

Marlin said:
			
		

> Hi, im deploying with PPCLI in september, this will be my first tour and im looking into purchasing a chest rig as im sure everyone in the CF knows the tac vest is a worthless pile of crap. ive asked a few buddys about recommendations, but im wondering what guys here who have gone overseas would recommend for a solid rig.
> 
> Im a C9 gunner and backup driver for the LAV. Mag pouches wont be my primary concern as opposed to box pouches, but i suppose it the rig is modular then it wont be a problem.
> 
> anyways if youve found something to be the cats ***, please let me know



I would recommend against buying anything at the moment - as it stands, the non-issued vest/rig policy for 3-09 is looking more and more like it's going to be "issued vest only". 

If that's the case, the best you can hope for is one of the left-over Arktis trial vests which repeat the same stupidity inherent in the standard vest - non-modularity - and apparently those will be out of bounds as well.  It wouldn't do you much good though - 12+ mag capacity isn't much use to anyone that doesn't use magazines (but that's crazy talk and far too logical).  So glorious is the wisdom of our betters outside the unit. 

If you buy anything, I'd make it a good backpack to carry the ammo, water, and other kit that you won't be able to fit in your "the-CF-consists-of-riflemen-only-and-we-like-them-sparsely-supplied" issued vest.  You could try the awesome issued patrol pack but if you do, I'd reinforce the sternum strap with about 20 lbs of gun tape so it stays on your shoulders. 

The ultra-confined-and-pain-in-the-ass-to-open mag pouches will provide you with valuable pen and chocolate bar real-estate, though. 

I know you'd probably like to have your rig to train with prior to deployment, but it'll turn out to be a losing bet unless something changes soon which, knowing the wisdom of Ottawa, won't happen.  You might as well save yourself the $300+ dollars it will cost you until an official announcement comes down (which will probably be about 2 months after we hit the ground). 

Maybe things will change when we're on the ground.  If so, maybe you'll have enough time to order one to an APO or buy one in theatre.  I hope for your sake, and that of all C9/C6/M203 gunners, that things change.


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## brihard (21 Mar 2009)

Pointer said:
			
		

> I would recommend against buying anything at the moment - as it stands, the non-issued vest/rig policy for 3-09 is looking more and more like it's going to be "issued vest only".



I'm gonna call shenanigans on that. Each roto initially comes into workup under this policy, but since at least Roto 2, every task force has had battlegroup personnel using different rigs. Even the Vandoo force showing up here now are using them.

I wouldn't let this current policy impact your research into buying a vest, since it seems that you will need it. The Tacvest is insufficient for your needs, so find something that will do.

I've been using a MoFOCR as a rifleman/dismount and it's served me well in terms of how it rides. whatever you pick, modular is the way to go.


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## Pointer (21 Mar 2009)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I'm gonna call shenanigans on that. Each roto initially comes into workup under this policy, but since at least Roto 2, every task force has had battlegroup personnel using different rigs. Even the Vandoo force showing up here now are using them.
> 
> I wouldn't let this current policy impact your research into buying a vest, since it seems that you will need it. The Tacvest is insufficient for your needs, so find something that will do.
> 
> I've been using a MoFOCR as a rifleman/dismount and it's served me well in terms of how it rides. whatever you pick, modular is the way to go.



I'll let the BG CO know that the TFA Comd is just BSing him, though I hope the BSing stops before the $160 000 + dollars the BG is spending on issued vest augmentation goes through. 

I hope you're right, but $160 000 is a strong incentive behind a policy.


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## Sig_Des (21 Mar 2009)

Pointer said:
			
		

> I'll let the BG CO know that the TFA Comd is just BSing him, though I hope the BSing stops before the $160 000 + dollars the BG is spending on issued vest augmentation goes through.
> 
> I hope you're right, but $160 000 is a strong incentive behind a policy.



Well, I guess the TFA Comd is just turning a blind eye to my personal vest (I know he's seen me wearing it). Or the chest rigs and vests of his crew.


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## Farmboy (21 Mar 2009)

I've heard many times that only issued rigs will be allowed, but many, many troops buy and wear aftermarket ones without a problem.

 Those that believe they are only going to be allowed to wear issued stuff, end up sending me and order for a rigs when they hit the ground.  That fine but it delays your training with the vest you will be using.

 One rig that more guys are going with, is the VooDoo Tactical LBE Harness. 

 http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=VT-208123&Category_Code=VDT

 Similar to our old webbing but updated.

 Lots of room for pouches and front opening as well.


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## PuckChaser (21 Mar 2009)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I'm gonna call shenanigans on that. Each roto initially comes into workup under this policy, but since at least Roto 2, every task force has had battlegroup personnel using different rigs. Even the Vandoo force showing up here now are using them.



1-09 learned from the mistakes of Roto 4's Vandoo battlegroup. We had a strict no non-issue kit rule that was bad as we got told when we could wear toques and fleece outside the wire. Recce Pl showed up in theatre with personalized rigs, and the Pl Comd and WO were told if there troops didn't get rid of them, both would be fired and new ones would be brought in. All depends on the JTFA Comd and RSM, but I'm happy to see the current Vandoo Roto isn't following the mistakes of the past.


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## Fusaki (21 Mar 2009)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Quote from: Pointer on Today at 07:30:06
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ZING!

But I really thought this was a dead issue... The general impression in my part of town is that when workup training starts we'll all be told "no chest-rigs", then when we get overseas everyone will turn a blind eye.  This is what happened with 1RCR's BG TF3-06, this is what happened with 1RCR's currently deployed OMLT, and this is expected to happen on TF 1-10.  There will be guys who've worn the same chest rig three tours in a row.


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## HItorMiss (21 Mar 2009)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> The general impression in my part of town is that when workup training starts we'll all be told "no chest-rigs", then when we get overseas everyone will turn a blind eye.  This is what happened with 1RCR's BG TF3-06,



No exactly WB, the then RSM (RIP) rescinded his "No non issue vest" rule openly right before Medusa. If you remember it was part of the coordinating instructions in the service support area during our orders. From the RSM Non issue chest rigs are allowed to be worn.

But regardless of how or why it was done it was done and stayed done until the end of our rotation.


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## Jarnhamar (21 Mar 2009)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Well, I guess the TFA Comd is just turning a blind eye to my personal vest (I know he's seen me wearing it). Or the chest rigs and vests of his crew.



Whats great is when someone tells you not to wear/use a piece of kit yet their own troops/crew are using it.


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## Pointer (21 Mar 2009)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Well, I guess the TFA Comd is just turning a blind eye to my personal vest (I know he's seen me wearing it). Or the chest rigs and vests of his crew.



Gen Vance isn't going to be there the whole tour - that's the problem - and that's most likely the reason why the guy that walked into the kit shop and said, to the effect, "I don't care as long as it works" has been mum on 3-09's kit policy since. 

Commands change, and ergo, so do policies.  The TFA Comd we're going to have on 3-09 is, for most of the tour, NOT going to be Vance.  It'll be a R22er.  The only things I've heard, thus far, about the Vandoos and NI kit is that they wore the issued vest for work-up and the policy stuck for the tour (for the BG anyway). The policy, as it stands, is going to be NO ISSUED KIT.  If anyoe knows any different (IE out of the mouth of someone in authority, not "on my tour it was like this!"), by all means - raise my morale - but I'm not going to spend or recommend spending hundreds of dollars on a rig because of a few poorly substantiated assertions from the scrying bowl that the policy will change. 

My experience has always been that if a policy is asinine and idiotic, it stands the test of time like no other... like wearing helmets in rental trucks in Wx.


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## Recon 3690 (22 Mar 2009)

this is off topic but I've said it before contact your member of Parliament, tell them your kit is crap & is putting your lives at risk and Command really doesn't give a crap can you help us out. The MPs get enough of those messages The "everybody needs to be the same" jerk off brass hats are going to have to start answering questions from Parliament. Especially if the press finds out.


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## Canadian Mind (22 Mar 2009)

I'd like to voice a complaint, however I worry that my very limited time in the army might make my opinion less weighted. 

I have no experience with the New Ruck, but even in my initial training and first few follow up exercises I encountered some difficulties when using the tac-vest. On course this was usually having the bayonet hitting me in the jugular because the course standards were to have it mounted high. On my DP1 I found that even with just practice engagements I quickly ran out of ammo when using the C-9, and using mags on the thing is a load of horseshit, especially on the go. The C-9 pouch on the thing, as is, is also slightly too small, and as such makes for difficult extraction either in a dug-in position or on the move. Simply making the pouch a touch bigger and/or giving the thing a slight angle would make for much easier extraction. The zipper is also a bitch, as are the buttons with the bayonet affixed. I've broken 2 zippers on the things already. Replace it with plastic buckles, or at least make the buckles a viable secondary option vs. the metal buttons. Not enough map pocket space, can be fixed by putting a map pocket on the right hand side. And setting up a system where the mp pockets can be accessed from the outside with a zippered system would be preferable to the current setup where one has to undo his tack-vest to access the map pockets.

There is also the problem of not being able to stuff all the required kit into the retardedly small pouches, especially with a C-9 Loadout.

As for the rucks, my only complaints about the 82 pattern is that it isn't really large enough, and the external pockets are shit-pieces. The belt is also a bit of a problem around my boney hips. Got some nice scars from where the belt dug in, even after being shown how to properly wear the ruck.

Those are my personal gripes, and requisite possible solutions from after being in for only 14 months. Because of them I would like a new ruck and vest for when I go overseas, though based on what my current position is (Coyote Driver), a new vest might not be necessary. I'd still like a larger ruck, and have been looking at getting a 64 pattern for some time now.

Once I get the new ruck, if I get it, and I have the same problems as many other people on here have voiced regarding problems with PPE, the waistbelt when used with tac-vest and PPE, etc. I would like to gripe to my MP about the problems, if it would make a difference. But again, I am very new to the army, so I don't think I have enough experience working with my kit to begin complaining about it to the MPs.


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## Recon 3690 (22 Mar 2009)

you have shown in that statement you have enough experience.

take a look at CP Gear's 64 Mk 2 it comes in Arid CADPAT or talk to Matt Fisher here.

I would stay away from Drop Zone as much as possible they are over priced IMHO


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## Canadian Mind (22 Mar 2009)

I was looking at the New Molle bag. I want the option to configure the loadout to different needs. I already fired off one email, but I'm thinking about sending him a PM on here. I don't know the actual capacity in litres of the 82 pattern ruck, or the new ruck they're issuing, so I have no easy way of comparing the capacities unless I had the CP Gear bag on hand. I don't want to pay good money for a bag that is invariably too small.

Other things I was looking at was a Molle combat belt for all the assorted little items, but I don't know how the waistbelt on CP Gears 64 pattern, or even my 82 pattern, would interfere with the use of it when I'm wearing it. 

Thanks for the heads up regarding drop zone, though I'll wait for others to comment on it before I make an informed decision.




As far as tac vests go, would the issued vest be suitable for someone who is primarily in the drivers hole? It looks like it will be my PCF overseas, but every recce roto has been different.


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## dangerboy (22 Mar 2009)

The new ruck has an 80 L capacity.  One other point is if your a Coyote Driver you probably will not have room for a big ruck, you will most likely end up using just a valise and a day bag.  I will let the Armoured guys expand on that thought.


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## Recon 3690 (22 Mar 2009)

If you are going to be using any drop leg platforms theres a combat support harness (or suspenders) that attaches to your trouser belt to aid in shifting weight and to keep your pants up. If I remember correctly its at Brigade Quartermasters check there site.

don't want to hang any moons while in contact


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## George Wallace (22 Mar 2009)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> The new ruck has an 80 L capacity.  One other point is if your a Coyote Driver you probably will not have room for a big ruck, you will most likely end up using just a valise and a day bag.  I will let the Armoured guys expand on that thought.



I understood from the Rumour Net, last year, that Armour were not going to get the new ruck, basically for this reason; it doesn't store well on AFVs.


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## dangerboy (22 Mar 2009)

The clothe the soldiers pers that were here in Wainwright told us that all pers deploying on Tour will get the Ruck no matter what trade they are. Everyone at the school got issued a ruck no mater what trade; this way we look identical when we do our BFT :


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## Canadian Mind (22 Mar 2009)

There is plenty of room behind the dirvers seat, but that is training, it might be taken up by other essentials overseas.

I have a pair of suspenders, I find them annoying, but I will use them if needed.

RCD guys in Pet were recently issued the new ruck. I just missed the cut coming in from Gagetown and have been told by the guys at QM that I will not be getting a new ruck at all before deployment.

And does the 80L include the space taken up by the compression bag? If so, how much space is left over?


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## dangerboy (22 Mar 2009)

Canadian Mind said:
			
		

> And does the 80L include the space taken up by the compression bag? If so, how much space is left over?



It is 80 L total, the ruck can be divided into two 40 L compartments with the compression sack fitting in the bottom 40 L compartment.


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## Canadian Mind (22 Mar 2009)

Thanks for the specs.

Any idea what the 82 Pattern Capacity is?


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## Recon 3690 (22 Mar 2009)

I compared my issue '64 & '82 rucks the main compartments & pockets look to be about equal in overall volume, so the 82 will hold hold slightly more because of the cover flap pocket. If that helps any, I never been very good with the metric system say maybe 50 - 55 liters total capacity for the '82, 45 - 50 liters for an issue '64. These are very rough guesstimates. If that helps any.


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## Canadian Mind (22 Mar 2009)

It helps, thanks.


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