# Canadian Army Reservist on Shooting Spree - in uniform



## Michael Dorosh (25 Oct 2004)

Just saw this on CTV news.  I presume he really was a reservist - but who knows.  He was wearing what looked like CADPAT.

The embarrassing part - he fired lots of shots but never hit anything.  Not embarrassing for him, but for the rest of us - what will people think, eh?

But seriously, luckily no one was hurt.  I hope it turns out this wasn't really a reservist but one of the Airsoft commandos - does anyone know anything else about this at this point?  Just a few seconds on the news tonight.


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## pbi (25 Oct 2004)

Oh, great. Details? Cheers.


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## Rfn (25 Oct 2004)

Where?? ???


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Oct 2004)

Nothing on their website.


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## pbi (25 Oct 2004)

Nothing on CBC site either. Is there a location?  Cheers.


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## Guardian (25 Oct 2004)

*Mon, October 25, 2004 



Reservist nabbed after rampage

By CP

QUEBEC -- A Canadian Forces reservist was arrested yesterday after police were led on a 200-km car chase by an armed man wearing a mask and combat dress. Police said a man twice rammed his car into a military vehicle at CFB Bagotville, 200 km north of Quebec City, late Saturday night. 

Police said they gave chase but lost the man before shots were fired at a residence. Shots were then fired at the provincial police detachment in Alma before a lengthy pursuit ensued, ending in Quebec City, police said. 

Police said the man was finally slowed down when his vehicle smashed into a cruiser belonging to Quebec City police. He then took off on foot, leaving behind a weapon. 

He was finally tracked down outside a Quebec City hospital and surrendered peacefully.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2004/10/25/pf-684107.html*

Not much there, but it's a start... Crazy.


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## Guardian (25 Oct 2004)

*PUBLICATION  : Montreal Gazette  
DATE  : 2004.10.25  
EDITION  : Final  

SECTION: News PAGE: A8 

SOURCE: The Gazette; PC contributed to this report DATELINE: QUEBEC 

HEADLINE: Army reservist leads police on wild chase: Shots fired at father's home, police station before suspect is arrested in Ste. Foy 

A Canadian military reservist based in Saguenay led police on a wild chase from Alma to Quebec City early yesterday with speeds reaching up to 150 kilometres an hour. 

The Surete du Quebec finally caught up with the suspect in Ste. Foy, a suburb of Quebec City, after a 200-kilometre chase. 

Police say a motorist twice rammed the back of a military police vehicle at Canadian Forces Base Bagotville on Saturday night. The military police were unable to stop the driver, who then turned up at his father's home, where he fired a couple of shots. He was dressed in combat gear and was wearing a gas mask, police said. 

After slipping past the Saguenay municipal police, he fired a couple of shots at the Surete police station in Alma. 

On Highway 175, the fugitive managed to avoid a spike carpet at a roadblock, and fled at high speed for Quebec City. 

The 20-year-old man was trying to get inside his sister's home near the Laval Hospital when he was caught, said SQ Constable Ann Mathieu. 

He had crashed his car into a police roadblock before fleeing on foot. A hunting rifle was found in the car he was driving, police said. 

An SQ spokesperson said the man is suspected in a rash of crimes, including arson and gas theft as well as firing shots. 

No one was injured. 

A Canadian Forces spokesperson said the man had not been on assignment. 

"We are going to review the employability of this reservist," she said. * 


That's a bit better. I really like the last line  ;D


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## pbi (25 Oct 2004)

> "We are going to review the employability of this reservist," she said.



No, really! Do tell! Cheers.


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## KevinB (25 Oct 2004)

Now a reg force guy migth have at least hit something on a  rampage


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Oct 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Now a reg force guy migth have at least hit something on a  rampage



I have no doubts that a Patricia would not have missed.

This bonehead should be charged and jailed for the simple act of doing this crap while in uniform - then pile the other charges on top of it.  Just what we needed.  For all the "rednecks" we have in Alberta, why is it that uniformed weirdos are always being reported in Quebec?  Remember the guy who took over the Legislature in BDUs?


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## JasonH (25 Oct 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I have no doubts that a Patricia would not have missed.
> 
> This bonehead should be charged and jailed for the simple act of doing this crap while in uniform - then pile the other charges on top of it.   Just what we needed.   For all the "rednecks" we have in Alberta, why is it that uniformed weirdos are always being reported in Quebec?   Remember the guy who took over the Legislature in BDUs?



Ooh Ooh story time!  I havn't herd the one about the guy who took the legislature!! Please tell!


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## KevinB (25 Oct 2004)

Dennis Lortie (pronounce Denny  : ) a Cpl who worked at the Carp Bunket took a 9mm C1 SMG (Sterling) and a 9mm Inglis (Browning Hi-Power) or two to the Quebec legislature for some tgt practise however he screwed up showed up at lunch and missed his "audience"  The Sgt@Arms talked him down and he surrendered peacefully.


Alberta Redneck Soliders drive their buddies SUV thru the Garrision Admin Buildings  ;D
Christian McEachern anyone...


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Oct 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Christian McEachern anyone...



He got his start in my reserve unit.  Then again so did John DeChastelain....how's that for famous?  You can keep Lady Patricia.


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## sdimock (25 Oct 2004)

Welcome to Club Ed. your home for the next 20 years.

With the firearms charges will he be turned over to the feds first or after?

That is if he doesn't get off on a psych defence.


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## KevinB (25 Oct 2004)

My guess is as a reservist he won't get digger time unless he did it while signed in...


I was in McEacherns platoon for a bit in Cgy - he mixed booze, pot, anti-depressants and malaria meds and coudl not figure out why he was screwed up  :  DIPSHIT


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## pegged (25 Oct 2004)

He should have used blanks, like all us Reservists do, hit anyone from any range.  ;D


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## Bograt (25 Oct 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> My guess is as a reservist he won't get digger time unless he did it while signed in...
> 
> 
> I was in McEacherns platoon for a bit in Cgy - he mixed booze, pot, anti-depressants and malaria meds and coudl not figure out why he was screwed up   :   DIPSHIT



Was he reported? I mean did anyone mention that he was doing this? If not, why not? If so, why was he still in the Reserves?


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Oct 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> My guess is as a reservist he won't get digger time unless he did it while signed in...
> 
> 
> I was in McEacherns platoon for a bit in Cgy - he mixed booze, pot, anti-depressants and malaria meds and coudl not figure out why he was screwed up  :  DIPSHIT



I never knew him personally and probably wouldn't discuss him in public if I had - I was in the pipe band at that time and didn't know too many of the infantry.  My only memory of him was sitting on a pool table in the JRC one day looking sad and depressed - I think he was dating one of the cute medics at the time as well.  All I could think of - she was quite phenom - what could you possibly have to be depressed about?  ;D 

His name naturally came up at the time of the Drive In incident but I didn't ask too many questions of those that knew him.  It didn't seem like a big surprise to them, though.

I think the biggest reaction was to his mother, and her habit of going on TV and doing his talking for him.


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Oct 2004)

Well this thread is now usless without pics of the medic.


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## KevinB (25 Oct 2004)

Bograt: McE was a Pat when I knew him - the Army has lots of drug problmes McE was pot and as a result pretty minor...   My guess is they thought it was easier to sweep under the rug.   My guess is you could still piss test 1CMBG and fail 50%...

Warning Adult Content

CFL - sorry I should have taken some...
I remember Christian tear assing down the hall complainign he had broken his ....      - Comign back from the Rwanda Dart Mission - sorry Ugandan Hotel Excursion - his "member" was not up to doing battle with her and had a nasty injury...


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## Acorn (26 Oct 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Dennis Lortie (pronounce Denny   : ) a Cpl who worked at the Carp Bunket took a 9mm C1 SMG (Sterling) and a 9mm Inglis (Browning Hi-Power) or two to the Quebec legislature for some tgt practise however he screwed up showed up at lunch and missed his "audience"   The Sgt@Arms talked him down and he surrendered peacefully.



Lortie still managed to kill a few people (3 I think) and wounded several more - legislature staff, the pols were all at lunch. IIRC René Jalbert, the Sgt-at-Arms got the Cross of Valour for talking Lortie down. The video of the event is pretty messed up. Lortie busts caps with the SMG in all directions, and pitches his false teeth(?!).

Acorn


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## a_majoor (26 Oct 2004)

Assuming this clown goes to Edmonton at all, he will only serve two years less a day, then be turned over to some nice "Club Fed" for the remainder of his sentence. I suppose we will be hearing some sob story about his being stressed out, or mentally ill at the time (odd how you never show symptoms before, and the illness never seems to recur after the event. The wonders of modern medicine).


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## bossi (26 Oct 2004)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> (odd how you never show symptoms before, and the illness never seems to recur after the event. The wonders of modern medicine).



I'm not defending this guy, just replying to your comment (above).
Sometimes symptoms are ignored, disbelieved, or overlooked.

A few years ago a friend died of liver failure - turned out he was an alcoholic and had been for years, drinking on his way to work, going for a "few" beers at lunch, and so on.  The doctors explained that his huge "beer gut" was actually his liver - he looked pregnant, it was so freakin' big.
However, as mental/medical health professionals would explain, people with "problems" try to compensate in different ways - this guy threw himself into volunterism with St John's Ambulance and coaching, others lead Boy Scouts, cadets, etc. - thus, we're always "so surprised" when they implode.

In Afghanistan we spotted somebody who was incredibly absent-minded, distracted, forgetful, irritable to the point of being ridiculous.  He's not doing very well now even though he's back home (and, no - I'm not talking in the third person about myself, thanks anyway).

As for after the event, well ... sometimes they respond to treatment (which they lacked beforehand).

It's important not to be too judgemental, scornful or harsh lest you drive people "underground" ... when they need help the most.
Treat others the way you'd want to be treated if you were in their shoes
(i.e. "There but for the grace of ... whatever ... go I.")



> Far from being a handicap to command, compassion is the measure of it.
> For unless one values the lives of his soldiers and is tormented by their ordeals, he is unfit to command.


General Omar Bradley


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## fleeingjam (26 Oct 2004)

Well I guess its not so bad because there was no harm done, but doesnt this sort of put a bad impression on the Candian Forces. And also if this goes further into a trial, that enrolment standards be altered to ensure guys like him dont act that way?


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Oct 2004)

Usman_Syed said:
			
		

> Well I guess its not so bad because there was no harm done





> but doesnt this sort of put a bad impression on the Candian Forces.



So which is it?


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## pbi (26 Oct 2004)

I was MacEachern's OC in Croatia (C/1PP) on OP HARMONY Roto 04 in 1994.. To say the least, I found some his tales about events he "witnessed" to be somewhat different than my recollection of things. Let's leave it at that. Cheers.


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## fleeingjam (26 Oct 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> So which is it?


Well Mike I guess just like any other criminal, hes commited an offence, like running from the police, firing of shots, that deserves some sort of punishment not to mention he decided to wear his uniform which is harmfull for the CF. So yes he does not just deserve to be ejected from the military but also be fined and or jailed. And if he be put in rehab if neccesary.


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## gun plumber (26 Oct 2004)

Could he possibly see Jail time?Maybe not for the shooting,but for the incident that happened on CFB Bagotville?Would'nt he fall under the NDA?


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## Scratch_043 (27 Oct 2004)

everything that he did is illegal, and jailable.


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## gun plumber (27 Oct 2004)

Oh defininatly!But a crime on a military installation regaurdless if the accused is a military member or not can have far more severe punishments than on civy street,expecially if the accused is a member.They could send him to the nut house on civy street for all the shooting and such,but because he broke a law while on a military establishment(evading arrest,or even the "catch-all")he still could face time in the crowbar hotel.
A question that has just come to me :What take legal precedence,the NDA or the civy laws?


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## Scratch_043 (27 Oct 2004)

Just venturing a guess, but I think that the NDA takes precidence, but civy charges no not reflect military rulings (ie. if a member is released in military court, civy charges can still be laid.)


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## NavyGrunt (27 Oct 2004)

It would work(Im sure someone will correct me if Im wrong) indictable offenses first. As they are "more serious". NDA offences are all summary conviction are they not?


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## bossi (27 Oct 2004)

gun plumber said:
			
		

> A question that has just come to me :What take legal precedence,the NDA or the civy laws?



It's interesting:   Crimes like murder, etc. are tried in civvie court - unless the offence happened outside of Canada in certain circumstances, then it's a court martial.
The underlying concept is to avoid having a military justice system that would unfairly/unjustly favour or protect soldiers.

If sentenced to a long vacation, the first two years (less a day?) are spent in Edmonton, then the rest in a civvie penitentiary - this time, sort of the reverse - to let the Army get in its' licks first ... "pour encourager les autres ..." so to speak.

Having said all of the above, even after Canada abolished the death penalty for murder, it still existed under QR&O's for a while (for certain offences in the face of the enemy) but then it was brought into line with CCC.

Bottom line: CCC normally takes precedence over NDA, but then there are peculiar exceptions when NDA comes first (i.e. when there's no equivalent in CCC).


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## Scratch_043 (27 Oct 2004)

My bad, I was just guessing anyway


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## Britney Spears (27 Oct 2004)

Bossi:

 Do you have any idea off hand when the death penalty was removed from the QR&Os?  I seem to recall it was quite recent (late 80s or early 90s)


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## KevinB (27 Oct 2004)

Early 90's


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## Boydfish (30 Oct 2004)

An intersting line of thought for reservists to consider in light of this will be disarmament of the reserves.

I'm serious, not in that I'd think it'd be a good idea, but let's all remember that this is the government that brought you a billion dollar gun registry because somebody in Quebec shot up a school.

We also have recently seen a similar thing happen here in BC, where all of the reserve police officers were disarmed for far less.  Still expected to go on patrol, in uniform, with regular force members, but completely unarmed.  Not surprisingly, nearly the entire reserve force quit and the new recruits are, um, nice guys.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if some Liberal soon starts calling for the reserves to be limited to foot drill, wearing uniforms, SHARP training and all of "thier" weapons/ammo/equipment stored with the closest regular force unit.  It would dovetail nicely with cutting a portion of the defence budget(Always a favorite of the Canadian government), as a reservist with just a uniform costs little.  No vehicles because they're a "potential danger to the public", no exercises outside of the sandtable variety, just a hall where guys dressed in green can meet once a week, practice marching and looking at pictures of military kit.  Of course, they'd also handle marching in Rememberance Day parades and such.

It wouldn't shock me in the least.


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## Pte. Bloggins (30 Oct 2004)

*gasp* shhh...don't give them any ideas.

be careful what you wish for, it might just come true  >


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## NavyGrunt (31 Oct 2004)

Boydfish said:
			
		

> An intersting line of thought for reservists to consider in light of this will be disarmament of the reserves.
> 
> I'm serious, not in that I'd think it'd be a good idea, but let's all remember that this is the government that brought you a billion dollar gun registry because somebody in Quebec shot up a school.
> 
> ...



Its very sad that I'm not shocked by that suggestion....at least he wasnt using a service weapon...


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## bossi (31 Oct 2004)

Boydfish said:
			
		

> An intersting line of thought for reservists to consider in light of this will be disarmament of the reserves.



As others have said, it's sad that this doesn't shock me.
However, as Boydfish said, they're so out of touch with reality that they've spent over a billion dollars on a useless gun registry (so far).
Thus, it won't surprise me either when they announce special streamlined recruiting processes for Liberal party members and other "selected" groups ...
It's all about getting re-elected, not what's best for Canada.


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## Michael Dorosh (31 Oct 2004)

Yes, but Mark, if you ever saw a Liberal MP walking on water, you'd criticize him for not knowing how to swim...


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## childs56 (31 Oct 2004)

dont laugh about the Reserves losing their weapons, when they brought in the new gun laws a few years back the law had stated that only full time military and law enforcement agencies could or would posses weapons with out a proper firearms certificate. That was one reason for the RCMP Aux memebers losing their guns, this alomst had the reserves lose theirs also till some one else
 woke up and said I think we have a prblem and need to fix the law. As for this clown going on a shooting spree, well charge him in military court then after he polishes a few galvinized garbage cans then. charge him in civie court. Male the bugger pay,


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## Marauder (1 Nov 2004)

Sounds like a case for potential retroactive abortion to me...


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## xFusilier (1 Nov 2004)

CTD said:
			
		

> dont laugh about the Reserves losing their weapons, when they brought in the new gun laws a few years back the law had stated that only full time military and law enforcement agencies could or would posses weapons with out a proper firearms certificate.



The Firearms Act and Part III Criminal Code, did not say any such thing.

s.3(2) _Fireramr Act_ "Notwithstanding subsection (1), this Act does not apply in respect of the Canadian Forces" ie the Act does not apply to the CF as a whole, meaning no licences, authorizations or registration required.

as for the RCMP Auxillairies loosing thier firearms BC was the only jurisdiction in Canada to arm thier auxillaries, and IIRC there were issued involving the BC Justice Dept., and the RCMP as well.  Quite often the Firearms Act/Part III Criminal Code is used as a whipping boy to explain complex firearms issues that often have nothing to do with the Act itself


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## Big Foot (27 Nov 2004)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Bossi:
> 
> Do you have any idea off hand when the death penalty was removed from the QR&Os?  I seem to recall it was quite recent (late 80s or early 90s)



Britney Spears: It was 1998 when the dealth penalty was lifted from the books. Don't ask me why I know, I just do. lol


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## McG (27 Nov 2004)

Aaron White said:
			
		

> NDA offences are all summary conviction are they not?


They are not.  Some violations of the NDA are very serious.  Additionally, any violation of the Canadian Criminal Code is a violation of the NDA and a chargable offense (even if committed outside of Canada).


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## NavyGrunt (27 Nov 2004)

-disregard-


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## CBH99 (27 Nov 2004)

How the hell is he supposed to show you?  Shit buddy -


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## NavyGrunt (27 Nov 2004)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> How the heck is he supposed to show you?   crap buddy -



By showing the sections of the NDA he was refering to. But I found them myself. He was right- which is why I already removed that post.


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## X Royal (27 Nov 2004)

As for military members causing bad press yes it has happened in the past and will happen in the future. Anyone who has spent any amount of time in the forces also knows this is just the tip of the iceberg. Some incidents have been kept from the public or the fact the person was military was not disclosed. I personally know of a few and heard of others. I am sure there is very many more I am not aware of. I remember quick quiet releases & quick postings to other bases. In some but not all of these incidences the military leaders at the time knew of problems but done nothing until crap hit fan than they went into damage mode.

Best Wishes


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