# Old cadet documents required for the CF... Why??



## Guy. E (13 Feb 2006)

i know this is my second topic, just as well as my last one for today.

long story short, after 2.5 years trying for the reserves and a changed mind, i finally got past recruiting for the regs... almost.

just when i think i have everything done and all i need to do is waite for my call to go to BMQ, Recruiting Winnipeg calls me last week and says that they require my old course reports from Air Cadets... just form Basic and Rifle Coach (only two i went on).

I'm going in tomorrow night to get my papers (if they have them), but my question is this. why do they want them? I'm under the impression/ thought that they want a better look at who i am before i get in to the CAF to make sure I'm worth they're effort in training/ etc. i have also been told that it will go towards seniority for promotion in the CF even tho by very little (perhaps by weeks at the most).

So, whats the deal?

thanks

Ed Guy


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## ZipperHead (13 Feb 2006)

I'm not sure how much has changed in 18 years (well, maybe fashion) but my cadet time only counted toward my first pay incentive. That was 5 years in cadets, with 4 cadet camps, 2 as an instructor. If I recall, I received my first incentive about 6 months earlier than my peers that I joined with (off civvie street).

I would make sure you track down the paperwork, as it will likely speed up the process, but I am only guessing here. Any information they have on you will likely assist in placing you higher in their pecking order (merit board).

Hope this helped.

Al


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## PteMacPooie (14 Feb 2006)

because it counts towards your TCP (time counted towards promotion)  it also has to do with your time counted towards leave (5 years time makes for 25 days per fiscal year for annual leave).  You will thank yourself if you can track down the docs, and you should give a big thank you to your recruiter, they did not ask me for my previous time in the reserves and trust me...that matters.

Just do what you are asked, it is for your own good.


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## geo (14 Feb 2006)

PteMacPooie said:
			
		

> because it counts towards your TCP (time counted towards promotion)  it also has to do with your time counted towards leave (5 years time makes for 25 days per fiscal year for annual leave).  You will thank yourself if you can track down the docs, and you should give a big thank you to your recruiter, they did not ask me for my previous time in the reserves and trust me...that matters.
> 
> Just do what you are asked, it is for your own good.



Mac

What are your references
From where I stand...... never heard or read anything of the sort.

Cadet service will get you a 6 month jump start on your 1st pay incentive.... and that's it.


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## Guy. E (14 Feb 2006)

my references were as follows:

1) Retired Army Sgt Veh Tec, friend of family for about 10 years.

2) Retired Navy Com's Tec, current Sea cadets CO, high school and rural league Foot Ball Coach, high school "Security"/ Attendance... officer?. known for 4 years

3) CFB Shilo Civil Engineer- Civilian. my boss for 3 months of work experience with my design/ drafting in school.

at this point i hadn't been in air cadets for over two years because i quit to join the reserves... that worked out well... so a reference was almost useless form them.


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## kincanucks (14 Feb 2006)

Guy.E, Geo was asking the question to PteMacPooie, who is confused,  not you.  PteMacPooie you are confusing Reserve service and cadet service.  Cadet service only counts toward IPC not for TCP.


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## PteMacPooie (14 Feb 2006)

OOOppps...brain fart!

Yes it is for IPC not TCP, gotta learn not to think so hard so early in the AM.

It is really important to have though.  It means money.

I will stop typing now...I have to get back to the "claim from hell" lol lol  :crybaby:

Have a good one.


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## geo (14 Feb 2006)

Mac.....
will trade you a claim from hell for a grievance from hell.......
you have no idea!

Cheers!


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## Guy. E (14 Feb 2006)

who much time is required in for the six month advance?


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## kincanucks (14 Feb 2006)

Guy. E said:
			
		

> who much time is required in for the six month advance?



You need to have completed at least three years of cadet service within five years of the date of your application to the CF and have successfully completed a six-week occupation or specialty course.


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## Guy. E (14 Feb 2006)

;D

4 years in, last year in was 02/03 and i took RCC, a 3 week speciality. 

 ;D


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## geo (14 Feb 2006)

Guy.... after 6 months - make sure that you get your 1st pay incentive.
It's a very common thing that they forget to submit.


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## Guy. E (14 Feb 2006)

Well, i left Air Cadets near 3 years ago. i left to join the reserves, because i worked my *** off only to be a 4th year corporal as well as taking a specialised course which i thought would greatly benefit my unit. i didn't get to teach 1 range class. not even the basic parts of a daisy air rifle to first years...

after all that time i was looking forward to a convo like "How are you?, whats new? what brings you here?"... guess not.

i guess there was more to it then that. when i left, Capt Mceen (sp) was... whats that rank before 2LT...  (forgot what it was.. they're all Sir or Ma ms any ways) she gave me nothing but attitude! NOTHING!  here is this "Captin" of an aircadet squadron grilled me (a "standard issue" civilian) on. (the thing is shes a Capt but not a "Real" CF Capt with military training...  but still a Capt... in ether event, isn't there supposed be some sort of code of conduct here?) I'm still a civy...

 I ask her if i can have a copy of or my original documents form my time in cadets and my course reports. she starts giving me attitude about Winnipeg needs to make a formal request for them. i ask then why did they tell me to come down and get them my self? she starts saying that they may have some trouble finding them. i say "aren't you guys supposed to keep them for a period of about 5 of 7 years?" then she goes along saying that they keep them for ever and that even if she wanted she couldn't take her old files out from her days in. (understandably) i ask again why would they send me down to get them when when they know they need a formal request. THEN she goes on saying that recruiting screwed up and are trying to cover they're asses by not asking for them... (WTF?)

she then asks me where i am now. i said i passed everything now last week, I'm waiting for these papers. and I'm waiting to go. she brings up the point that she rememberer's sending them out when i was applying for the reserves... i said yes, i need them again... that was 2.5 years ago.

She argued with me saying that i actually was in the reserves. i think i know what i was and was not in thank you. my dad is a Mcpl veh tec at 26 Field regalement. he was teaching a class on drill instruction. he was instructing only about 4 or 5 recruits who had to take turns at instructing each other on basic drill (left turn, at ease, attention, etc), because of so few people my dad asked if i wanted to put on one of my old olive drab uniforms and some combat boots to help them out and just do some drill. i explained all this to her and her reply was and i quote exactly "What? they're just giving out uniforms now ?"  this just about pushed me off the edge. 

that was not just rude but completely un called for. i would expect this kind of attitude from any civy, not anyone in cadets or even a "commissioned" officer of the Canadian military. (knowing that she is still a Capt regardless i kept my tongue.)

So i ask her how long it might take for everything? she said well, after they send us a letter we will need to send them the documents and that will tale about a week. thinking out loud i said, a little less then a week form there to here, depending on what day they send them and if it works with cadets, including the tI'me to send them back, im looking at a month. she says well, how long have you been waiting now, i said 2 and a half years, she said you can Waite an extra week.

this whole time im thinking ... they're loading courses now... i see it on the net.. i don't want to miss out on another who knows how long before another course and need to re apply all over again because the air cadets want to take they're sweet time.. 


i need some help finding the ph# for the ACO office, this is just nuts. i know what i am (a regular civy at this point in time) and i don't deserve this crap.
    

can someone re assure me that they my whole file and potentally a good chunk of time is riding as well as the availability of a limited number course on these stupid little docs that are keeping my file frozen in Winnipeg.. i had a pretty bad last week involving a snowmobile crash and this would top everything off.

sorry for the rant, its something i needed to get out and figured this is the best most appropriate place for it. damn, I'm having a rough few weeks.

thanks for the help everyone

and, yes i know, i expect to get lots-o shit and then some at BMQ, i expect that i can take that. but not from an air cadet officer like this now.


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## geo (15 Feb 2006)

If you have your course certificates, provide them to CFRC
If you don't, give the Cadet Corp Cmdr a written letter listing exactly what you need and giving them a reasonnable time to answer (1 week).
(Ask CFRC) If they (CC) can't come up with the course reports, will they accept a document from the Cadet Corp that lists the dates you were in and the qualifications you obtained?

Good luck

G


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## Guy. E (15 Feb 2006)

I don’t have anything of the required papers.

One of the problems are that they wont give ME anything without a written document form CFRC Winnipeg. 

Is this right? and is everything being held up on this now?

Ether way im calling CFRC Winnipeg today in about 30 min. will update on situation.


EDIT: I JUST got off the phone with my processing clerk. I explained my situation on how she (my clerk) directly told me to go to my old unit and get my papers my self. I then told her that they won’t give them to me. She said well, ok, ok that’s fine. if they don’t want to give them to you then that’s that. i said Woah, woah wate a second here, doesn’t my cadet time go towards my pay scale?? she asks me if i went on any special courses my reply was yes. she said normally there is a request made at the beginning of the process but she will send a letter asking for them. I said ok

My next question was regarding how long it might take and if this will effect my course loading time and when I go away to BMQ. It does not slow me down one bit or anything at all if they dont have my cadet papers. As of now I am waiting for a future position in CFB Borden for my ACS training before they will load me for St Jean. saves PAT time i guess.

I asked her if she could tell me where I am on for the merit listing and she said she could not. I can only guess it is hush hush like everyone’s CFAT scores.  

So all is cool and well… for now.


And “Kincanucks”, a thumbs up to Sheila Sampson- CFRC Winnipeg Processing Clerk 

Thanks all. I would have gone mad without the help.


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