# Grievences, character references...stuff like that...



## Elisha (22 Sep 2005)

Hey,

Just looking for some information on grievences and military character references, any help would be great?!


Elisha


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## Michael OLeary (22 Sep 2005)

Grievance Manual - http://www.cfga.forces.gc.ca/pubs/griev_instruments/manual_e.asp


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## Elisha (22 Sep 2005)

I know about that link but i'm looking for a little bit more information than that...but thank you..


Elisha


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## Michael OLeary (22 Sep 2005)

Perhaps if you specified what you are looking for that is not covered in the Grievance Manual, then someone may be able to provide assistance.


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## Elisha (22 Sep 2005)

Hey,

Sorry...I am looking for what to expect once a grievence is submitted, what to do after an answer has been reached, what other ways are their to address the issues put forth in the grievence...what are the probabilities of getting a 'positive' response.  

If anyone needs any more specific details, feel free to private message me.


Elisha


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## Cloud Cover (22 Sep 2005)

If I understand what you are driving at, a character reference to support ones credibility as a greivor should not ordinarily be necessary. Greivances are supposed to be fact driven, not credibility driven. Once you put your credibility in play, it is then open to question, but if you stick to the facts of the sitaution, there should be no need. 

It can be good idea to obtain a letter of reference in order to keep in reserve to refute any attacks on your character, but only in that instance. 

Hope this helps.


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## Elisha (22 Sep 2005)

Hi,

The grievence is based on fact, just wanting to get some more information about timelines...and that kind of stuff.


As for character references, I am just wondering how they are written for the military...I am looking primarily for examples if possible.


Thanks for the response...i'm just sitting right now between a rock and a hard place...and at the bottom of a hill...it can only go up right?!


Elisha


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## Cloud Cover (22 Sep 2005)

Elisha said:
			
		

> Thanks for the response...i'm just sitting right now between a rock and a hard place...and at the bottom of a hill...it can only go up right?!
> Elisha



Yep. Sometimes the hill can be steep. Good luck.


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## geo (23 Sep 2005)

Grievances are supposed to be treated in a timely manner.
Going by the old book, once your superior has received your grievance, he's supposed to act on it within 48 hours......... but that does not mean that it will be resolved within 48 hours

It's not a perfect system


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## Elisha (24 Sep 2005)

I believe it is 90 days as to what the response is to be...that is the normal wait time...


Elisha


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## geo (25 Sep 2005)

90 days is what everyone is aiming for BUT..... some grievances take an awful long time (I had one that dragged on for 1 yr)


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## Elisha (26 Sep 2005)

Oh I have you beat on that one...1 year and counting...like I said before...when your at the bottom you can only go up....right?!

I know grievences do take a long time but...again just looking for a little more info than that...but thanks


Elisha


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## geo (26 Sep 2005)

Note that they do have an obligation to keep you apraised, periodicaly, on the status of your redress...
It is obvious that if it goes up to a ministerial inquiry then you've got your hands on a real bear of a situation...
If they don't feed you info - you still have recourse to the Ombudsman....

another alternative might be to try out "the centre" : www.forces.gc.ca/hr/thecentre/
I have a buddy there that has err..... put into plain language the status of files and kick started procedures that appear to have stalled - for whatever the reason.

Good luck

Chimo!


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## Elisha (26 Sep 2005)

Thanks for that info...i'll take a look at it...ugh...the process and wait is what makes it stressful.


Elisha


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## Roger (26 Sep 2005)

Does anyone have a pre-writin greavence or know where I can get one, I need to fill one out and have never done one. I am not getting much help from my chain of command.


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## Elisha (26 Sep 2005)

Hey Chop,

I gave you some suggestions as what to go about doing it as well in a private message.  Examples may be go to some extent but as for just filling your information for your particular case or anyones case may be hard as each is a little different from the next.  

I know with the case I am dealing with, it was done in the format of a memorandum and just put in the relivant issue relating.  

Elisha


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## Roger (26 Sep 2005)

I have all of the particulars, I just need a basic form in word so that i can just add my information, it could look like this.

PROTECTED B

MEMO

Private whats his face
1 army road
Army ville HOH HOH


0413-6 (Pers)

17 June 2005

Commandant
of army unit
Canada

Redresss

References : A. File (personnel) 17 Mai 2005
B. CFAO 11111 chapter 111111

D. some big book



1.	I wish to grieve the lunch hour soup, blah, blah blah,blah, blah blah,blah, blah blah,blah, blah blah


Something like that so that I know how to fill it out. Any help in this mater would be really appreciated.


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## geo (26 Sep 2005)

Note that there is a difference between a complaint and a grievance you want to have redressed.

Make certain that you clearly identify what it is that has been done to you and what it is about that action that is "unfair" and which should be corrected.

If the grievance sounds only like a complaint - you won't get past 1st base.......


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2005)

Try this (for the right reasons of course)

PROTECTED B (1st line of page)

Memorandum

5230-1 (XXX Pers)   (note XXX = your last 3/the file # is correct)

XX Sep 05

Commandant

REDRESS OF GRIEVANCE FY 2004 ANNUAL PERFORMANCE
EVALUATION REPORT XXX CPL BLOGGINS DATED XX MAY 04 (Bold font) (or Regualr font with the bottom line underlined)

Refs:        a. Memorandum 5225-4 (Unit CO)
               b. CFPAS DAOD
               c. CF Grievance Manual Jun 2000
               d. CFAO 19-32
               e. Memorandum 1180-1 (XXX Pers)
               f.   Commander's Commendation dated XX Mar 04	

1.        At this time, I XXX Cpl JD Bloggins, submit a Redress of Grievance pertaining to subj annual PER IAW refs b, c and d.

2.        I am convinced that the above-mentioned evaluation report, in no way, accurately reflects neither my performance nor my potential for the reported period. As outlined at ref a, Unit CO directed that all memos and Letters of Appreciation were to be taken into account during the preparation of all PERs for personnel for FY 04. In contradiction to to ref a, my PER is inaccurate in that:

           a.   I have been awarded a Performance Factor 11 (Written Communication) Score
           of "NI' despite  the fact that I recd ref e Memorandum from the Base Comd recognizing
           my outstanding written  communication abilities while employed as the Base Routine 
           Order Writer etc etc;

           b.   I have been awarded a score of "N" in Potential Factor 6 (Dedication) despite the
           presentation of ref f Commander's Commendation for outstanding dedication to my 
           community, trade and the CF as a whole; and

           c.   No mention of refs e and f are made in the "new qualification and skills" section of   
           subj PER despite directives at ref a stating that these were to be included.

3.        In closing, I ask that all draft copies and other applicable paperwork used by my supervisor in preparing this PER be retained on file until the conclusion of my redress process.

4.        For your consideration, Sir.
(5 spaces)
JD Bloggins
Cpl
IC POL
2345

PROTECTED B (last line from the bottom of your page)


Good Luck I guess


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## geo (27 Sep 2005)

don't forget to omit the "good luck" message at the bottom (JK)

Certainly should fit the bill


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## Roger (10 Oct 2005)

Thank you.....


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## bLUE fOX (2 Feb 2006)

I know this is a long time after but ihave some questions. I Have received a written warning for reasonI consider tobecompletely inaccurate. I would like to put a greivance against it, but the wording of the warning is not very clear, and is somewhat lacking. Am I allowed torequest more information form the persons who issued it to help me better understnadhow the reached there conclusions sothat I can better explain myself? Thank yo for your assistance


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## geo (3 Feb 2006)

Uhh.... was the Recorded wng preceded by one or several Verbals?
A RW should not  be issued unless the member has been warned verbally, and been given guidance on overcoming the deficiencies, on one or more previous occasions.  Any RW shall:
a.  be initiated by the member's supervisor, CO or higher authority, using the form shown in Annex A;
b.  remain permanently on the member's unit personal file;
c.  not have any effect on eligibility for pro- motion, training, posting, re-engagement or pay; and
d.  not have any further career consequences, if the RW is successful.  A record in the form of a memorandum, noting that the deficiencies have been corrected, must be placed on the member's unit personal file (UPF).

It is evident that if someone is informing you in this manner that you have messed up, they should be quite clear about what you have done AND provide you with the necessary instruction to ensure that you know what you have done AND what you should do to correct said shortcoming.


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## bLUE fOX (3 Feb 2006)

there was no verbal warning as usch. I received a phone callasking for a statement with regards to an investigation that had been started in november and had not heard anything back about it until the written warning was issued to me last tuesday


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## MAT (3 Jul 2011)

I received an Intial Councelling for a picture sent on DWAN that was deemed inappropriate.  There were 25 other people proven who had sent it and nothing happened to them. The same day I sent a picture on my personal computer to a coworker who asked why I got in trouble, and wanted to know what the picture was. After they received it, they printed it and brought it into work, which I received a Recorded Warning. Any advise out there, there was no verbal and no followup councelling?


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## PMedMoe (3 Jul 2011)

MAT said:
			
		

> There were 25 other people proven who had sent it and nothing happened to them.



Sorry to say, it doesn't really matter what happened to them (or not).  If you violated the rules of what you _should_ have signed with regards to your CF email account, too bad.


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## ballz (3 Jul 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Sorry to say, it doesn't really matter what happened to them (or not).  If you violated the rules of what you _should_ have signed with regards to your CF email account, too bad.



I don't know much about the CF grievence process stuff but I disagree with your idea completely. If 25 people sent it then 25 people should have received the same reward. That is just fundamental to any kind of justice. If it was okay for the other 24 people to do so, then the precedent has been set for #25.

As for already having received an initial counselling, and then sending it / distributing again afterwards, you friggin' earned your RW... That was just plain stupid.


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## PMedMoe (3 Jul 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> I don't know much about the CF grievence process stuff but I disagree with your idea completely. If 25 people sent it then 25 people should have received the same reward. That is just fundamental to any kind of justice. If it was okay for the other 24 people to do so, then the precedent has been set for #25.



I agree with you.  Unfortunately, with only so many people to check email traffic, some things get missed.


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