# Canada Car & Foundry



## George Wallace (24 Apr 2005)

Has anyone ever heard of Canada Car & Foundry?  Are there any Canadian Aviation History buffs in the crowd?

I came across this site.  It is rather interesting.  I am wondering if, even before we had the Avro Arrow, if we had a ingenious Aviation Industry on the go, but sold it out in the end, like so many other Canadian innovations?

http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/listings.htm


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## old medic (24 Apr 2005)

George,

CCF is a big name in Canadian History.
They were a big railcar (cargo and rail passenger) and aircraft manufacturer


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## George Wallace (24 Apr 2005)

Some of those aircraft designed in the 30's and 40's are rather advanced and we can see them in the designs of many of the aircraft being produced today.  Burnelli was definitely well ahead of the times.


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## old medic (24 Apr 2005)

Through various mergers and bankruptcies,

Can-Car (CCF) became Avro, became Hawker Siddeley Canada, became Urban Transport Development Corporation (UTDC) 
and in 1992 was bought out by Bombardier


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## Slim (24 Apr 2005)

Does anyone know why Rooosavelt blacklisted him?


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## jmacleod (24 Apr 2005)

Canada Car and Foundry operated an aircraft manufacturing plant in Amherst NS during World WarII.
It produced for one thing, Curtis dive bombers, a USN aircraft of the period. CCand F also
had plants in Montreal and Saint Catherine's Ontario I think. CCandF also (as a foundry) produced
wood and coal burning kitchen stoves and furnaces, now prized throughout the Maritimes for
their high quality. The company was bought by Moncton businessmen Leonard Ellen and Rubin
Cohen in the years after the war, but continued to manufacture aircraft components for Boeing,
McDonnell-Douglas and deHavilland Canada (now Bombardier,Downsview). In fact much of the
metal forming machinery was loaned by deHavilland Canada (and is still there) Cohen and Ellen
sold the Amherst plant to Halifax lawyers, who knew little of nothing about manufacturing parts
for airplanes; they subsequently lost the business, which was purchased by IMP Aerospace of
Halifax NS, who, with assistance from the NS government built a new plant, which is in production
as I write this. CCand F also manufactured a variety of allied aircraft in Canada, including Hawker
"Hurricanes". The Canadian Warplane Heritage Foundation (and Museum) Mount Hope ON is a
significant source of information about this famous Canadian company. We are consultants in the
international aerospace and technology sector - the workforce in the Amherst plants, including
today, is one of the most highly skilled in the North American sector, and has been for decades.
Regards, MacLeod


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## Slim (24 Apr 2005)

Great stoy above...Does anyone know why Rooosavelt blacklisted Bernelli?


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## old medic (24 Apr 2005)

jmacleod said:
			
		

> C The company was bought by Moncton businessmen Leonard Ellen and Rubin
> Cohen in the years after the war,



CCF only sold the plant. not the business.

In 1957 control of the Canadian Car Co., Limited or "Can-Car", as it had by then become known, passed to A.V. Roe Canada Limited, a branch of the large British aircraft concern of the same name, which was seeking to diversify its interests.

In the spring of 1962, the name of Avro Canada stopped being used, Hawker Siddeley Canada was used for Canadian interests

Source

http://www.avroland.ca


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## jmacleod (24 Apr 2005)

You will find a lot of information on US engineer Burnelli on the Canadian Car & Foundry Site, and
his famous flying wing designs. Bunelli was well known and respected in the aircraft manufacturing
industry, and aircraft designers like John "Jack" Northrop, founder of the Northrop Corporation -
there is also information about the "Queen of the Hurricanes", Canadian engineer Nellie McGill
who designed upgraded systems for Hawker "Hurricane" fighters in the CCandF plant, Montreal
- in later life she wrote Airworthiness Standards for TC and ICAO. I had not heard that Burnelli
was disliked by President Franklin Roosevelt, seems strange to me. Regards MacLeod


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## TCBF (25 Apr 2005)

They had a big plant in Fort William Ontario (now part of Thunder Bay) that made Hurricanes and dive bombers.  It is a Bombardier plant today.  They had a Rosie the Riviter re-union a few years back, and brought up a Curtis from the USA.  Some of the ladies got a ride in it.


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## TCBF (25 Apr 2005)

SBW-1
CCF version of the SB2C-1.
BuNo. 21198 later converted to an SBW-3.
Produced
Canadian Car & Foundry Co., Fort William, Ontario, Canada (CCF) (W) 

BuNo.21192 / 21200  ?   
BuNo.21203 / 21231  ? Total: 0038 

1 (21232), additional airframe cancelled.  

SBW-1B
As SB2C-1C, for Lend-Lease to the Royal Navy.
Produced 1943 - 1944 
Canadian Car & Foundry Co., Fort William, Ontario, Canada (CCF) (W) 

BuNo.60011, 60012  ?   
26 delivered as Helldiver DB.Mk. I to the Royal Navy: 
BuNo.21201, 21202
(RN) JW101, JW102  ?   
BuNo.60010
(RN) JW100  ?   
BuNo.60013 / 60035
(RN) JW103 / JW125  ? Total: 0028 


SBW-2 - Not used.

SBW-3
CCF version of the SB2C-3.
Produced
Canadian Car & Foundry Co., Fort William, Ontario, Canada (CCF) (W) 

BuNo.21233 / 21645  ? Total: 0413 


SBW-4 - Not used.

SBW-4E
CCF version of the SB2C-4E.
Produced
Canadian Car & Foundry Co., Fort William, Ontario, Canada (CCF) (W) 

BuNo.21646 / 21741  ?   
BuNo.60036 / 60209  ? Total: 0270 


SBW-5
CCF version of the SB2C-5.
Produced
Canadian Car & Foundry Co., Fort William, Ontario, Canada (CCF) (W) 

BuNo.60211 / 60295  ? Total: 0085 

165 additional airframes cancelled.


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## TCBF (25 Apr 2005)

1942 Hawker Hurricane MK XII 



Registration   RCAF 5418 
Builder   Canadian Car and Foundry Ltd., Fort William, Ontario 
Type   single engine, low wing, closed monoplane 
Weight   2260 kg (4,982 pounds) empty 
Wing Span   12.1 m (40 feet) 
Length   9.8 m (32.3 feet) 
Height   3.9 m (13.1 feet) 
Engine   Packard Merlin V-12 cylinder water cooled, 1300 hp 
Maximum Air Speed   531 kph (330 mph) 
Stall Speed   120 kph (75 mph) 
Max Flying Distance   483 km (300 miles) without auxiliary tanks 
Accommodation   1 pilot 

The hurricane was the first modern monoplane fighter acquired by the Royal Canadian Air Force.  It was used by many air forces during World War II as a fighter and fighter bomber. 

Out of 14,500 Hawker Hurricanes built, Canada built 1,300 for home defence and export abroad.  Russia was a major user of Canadian-built Hurricanes.


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