# article that preaches negative perspective about the youth of the CF



## dynamictension (28 May 2006)

This my 5th month in the CF, and just recently at moss park armoury located in toronto ontario, we had a columnist from a magazine come down to write an article on what the military co-op program is up to, and what we are accomplishing. after reviewing this article, i can see that it is very biased, and once again, it's another article that bashes the CF. honestly im sick of people trying to send negative information to the community, we have enough citizens who dislike what the military beholds (thanks to losers who feed them garbage and their opinions that are really useless), nevermind adding to that number by creating an article which makes the youth of the CF look like we were pressured into this, when it was all our own choice, and no one elses.   http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2006-05-25/news.php          

this article is disturbing in some aspects i suggest everyone read it


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## Five-to-One (28 May 2006)

I had a look through that website and it seemed to be one of those liberal heartbleed places, people who go there are probably looking for that kinda sh*t material, I doubt it will change many opinions but hey soldiers actually doing their jobs is still a shock to many Canadians so just bear with it till they come around


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## HDE (28 May 2006)

NOW isn't exactly known for Pulitzer Prize quality journalism, folks!  Basically it's a Toronto-centric current events/arts/escort agency listings in the classifieds sort of deal.   I'd imagine NOW readers have already pretty much decided that the Conservatives/America/nuclear families/militaries, etc are really bad.  By all means check it out but take it for what it is


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (28 May 2006)

I suppose "right out of highschool" is a bad time to consider your future employment. Perhaps a few years of petty crime and drug experimentation are more in order.


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## GAP (28 May 2006)

The article is nothing but bias anti-American crap. The people involved in the co-op  program (or somebody connected) needs to counter this article with the values of the program, etc. Considering where it is written, I don't have much hope.


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## Michael Dorosh (28 May 2006)

> Fast times at Machine Gun High
> Stretched armed forces quietly lure high-schoolers with promise of credits and cash
> By ANDREW CASH


"Quietly lure"? Our recruiting isn't exactly a secret, and I thought you can't go overseas until you're 18 years of age, so what is the harm?



> After MPs narrowly voted last week to extend our military mission in Afghanistan for another two years, most Canadians are still wondering how we morphed from UN-supporting peacekeepers into counter-insurgency killers of "scumbags" to borrow General Rick Hillier's delicate phrase.


We've always been trained for war - Cash doesn't get it though he may be correct in that "most Canadians" don't understand that either.



> Just before the debate and vote in the House, we learned, sadly, of the death of Captain Nichola Goddard. Watching the news, I was jarred by a small biographical detail: she had joined the army right out of high school. That made me think of the large military recruitment poster I'd seen recently in the guidance office at my son's high school.


She knew what she wanted to do and did it. Better she should piss away government loans at University "finding herself" with a useless arts degree?



> It bothered me, that poster. It seemed so terribly out of sync with the confusion Canadians are experiencing over this sudden redefinition of our mission in the world. Do we really all agree that the Toronto District School Board should be allowing the military to freshen its far from robust ranks by infiltrating our places of learning?


Infiltrating? Just as lilely they were invited by the school's guidance counsellor.



> But it isn't just a few posters on guidance office walls. In a drive to expand the forces to fulfill its new, and unexplained, mandate, the Canadian military has partnered with the board to offer a military co-op program.


Again, they were likely invited to do so.



> In both Toronto's public and Catho-lic boards, the plan pays kids to join the reserves, gives them four high school credits and trains them in, among other soldiering arts, machine gun shooting and grenade throwing. For bored and impressionable teenagers, how cool is that? For the 18 kids in the Toronto program, I came to realize dishearteningly, the answer is very cool.


"Dishearteningly"? Is this an opinion piece or a factual article?

Can't read the rest of the crap.


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## Michael Dorosh (28 May 2006)

SHELLDRAKE!! said:
			
		

> I suppose "right out of highschool" is a bad time to consider your future employment. Perhaps a few years of petty crime and drug experimentation are more in order.



Or using government loans while you go "find yourself" at college skipping classes on Underwater Basket Weaving and spending the cash on ski trips.  :


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## pte. Massecar (28 May 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Better she should piss away government loans at University "finding herself" with a useless arts degree?



I feel the same was as you Michael, being in the CF for 3 years, joined while in highschool. But, no need for the comments about getting a university arts degree. You can do alot with one. Including being  amilitary historian and supporter of the CF. SO, frankly this comment is unwarranted. If you meant SHE wasted a good arts degree, then I concurr.


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## Shec (28 May 2006)

Don't sweat it kid, it goes with the territory.   The detractors, the critics, the peaceniks whose freedom you are defending have always been there and always will be there.   When i was in during the early '70's at the tail end of the Viet Nam war we got the same disgusted intolerance.  They are the not so silent minority who are only able to voice their opinion because you are willing to pay the price of that freedom of opinion. On the upside there are more out there, albeit silent ones, that indeed respect you - the bus driver who lets you on for free when you are in uniform and on your way to the armoury,  the immigrant from a war torn land who was liberated by your brothers in arms who stops to give you a lift  to that bus stop, the growing 1000's of ordinary  and anonymous citizens who lay poppies on the grave of the Unknown Soldier every November 11.   Do yourself a favour, think of them the next time some pacifist candyass assaults the uniform you wear.


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## Brad Sallows (28 May 2006)

>the fact that a soldier is trained to kill and die on command.

Holy sh!t.  We're not training soldiers; we're training samurai.


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## FredDaHead (28 May 2006)

I think the author would rather have kids join the leftist conspiracy theorists at Civvie U for three/four years and do a bunch of "civil disobedience" on a regular basis, and be completely brainwashed, before they can make choices on their own.

Something that bugged me: "army fatigues and polished boots". Am I part of the only IAP class that was told not to spit-shine our combat boots? Or maybe the propagandist journalist has never seen anyone wearing something other than sneakers?



> I am hearing anecdotally that there's a stepped-up presence by the military generally in schools, and I think this is alarming.



Oh my god, the evil fascist military people are going to take over the schools and take away any student that shows independent thought! Let's all whine and bitch until they go away!



> new U.S.-inspired war aims



So... wanting to actually do our job is US-inspired? ...I guess the cops' job is "US-inspired oppression"?



> Non-violence trainer and writer Len Desroches says all the talk about school boards merely offering career options just doesn't wash, because young people aren't being allowed to make fully informed choices.



And removing the military possibility is going to allow kids to make fully informed choices, how?



As for the last bit, about some Catholic high school wanting to remove the military presence and all that, while bitching that the military preys on "economically vulnerable" kids... Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's a "Catholic" school, it's private, right? And if it's a private school, then rich kids go, right? Then where's the problem?

I agree with the solution that was proposed (adopted?) in the US (though in their case it applies to universities): if the military can't advertise in the school, the school loses it's government funding.


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## hayterowensound (28 May 2006)

Does the media have nothing else to do? I am getting so tired of the military getting bashed all the time. :rage: I cannot see anything wrong with some students/soldiers getting some self discipline while going to school. I think that is the biggest thing lacking in our schools!

 Any co-op students/soldiers  reading this, Canada needs more people like you guys .  Hold your head up high and soldier on.


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## Cloud Cover (28 May 2006)

Frederik G said:
			
		

> As for the last bit, about some Catholic high school wanting to remove the military presence and all that, while bitching that the military preys on "economically vulnerable" kids... Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's a "Catholic" school, it's private, right? And if it's a private school, then rich kids go, right? Then where's the problem?



Depends on where you live. In Ontario, where this article is written, they are both publicly funded. You also have to consider this article was written by a journalist of magazine known to be on the extreme left of the political spectrum. As for the Christian Peacemakers et. al coming into highschools, there is a big difference between the armed forces of the country operating a co-op program vs. unorganized fringe/anarchy/ groups (and in at least one of the alternative examples listed by the journalist, an certain organization that is both anti-Christian and terrorist friendly.)


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## Jarnhamar (28 May 2006)

I think if someone ordered me to go die I'd tell them to fuck their hat.


So yoga flying nutbars targeting schools is OK. Military which gives EVERYONE the oppertunity to choose what they believe in what silly god they follow and what crook they vote for is bad.

Got it.


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## boots (28 May 2006)

I sometimes wish I had thought about this when I was just getting out of high school. I might have, if we had had recruiters on campus. At that time in my life, I could have used the focus and discipline. And I'd have made Captain by now


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## Trinity (28 May 2006)

Actually I like the article.

Sure, its dribble.  But I bet any 17 or 18 year old who reads it will want to join. 
Even the guy writing the article says the military is physically and mentally challenging
and he got excited about what he saw.  

Lots of flagrant and stupid things, but Die on Command.. right.  Show me in your
notes pal where you got that information.  Oh right, liberal propaganda.  I wish we
could hold these people accountable for comments like this.


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## The_Falcon (28 May 2006)

There is a reason you can get NOW magazine for free on most street corners in Toronto, you would have to be off your nut to pay read that crap.  To me it seems this "author" is a little uncomfortable with the idea that there can actually be discipline and order in a classroom, and that people actually seek out activites that are both physically and mentally challenging.  The big thing that I noticed (not that it was really suprising either) was the fact that they never knew this program existed, that they think this is a recent program and that it was one big secret. Talk about dropping the ball.  The author could have (but obviously choose not to, lest they give up thier anti-us stand) at least researched the history of this program in Toronto, and discovered that this program has been going on long before the conflicts in A-stan and Iraq.  We were looking at this article in the mess on friday, had our laughs and then promptly threw this tripe in the GARBAGE were it belonged.


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## couchcommander (28 May 2006)

> "Are they being sold a benevolent Captain Canada only to find that they are being shot at and shooting people?"



Oh yes... very sneaky, the military is definately surgar coating everything TO LURE THEM IN!... 



> "Careful," yells the instructor as one kid gets up on his hands and knees to fix a jammed gun. "You do that on the battlefield and you're dead."



Oh, ooppps, nvm (from the same article, just nearer the beginning).


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## career_radio-checker (28 May 2006)

I for one can't wait to go back to school. Luckily the University of Ottawa is a moderate thinking institution, very little propaganda from either side. I was actually reruited at my university and yes I was an 'economically vulnerable' student who was looking for a job. Best job I ever took... Then they suckered me into comming to Wainwright for 5 months *shakes fist*.  just 30 more days, 30 more days!


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## pbi (29 May 2006)

Isn't it amazing how, when these people decide to make a point, they immediately distort and telescope history so that events occured in the order that they need them to? Like Co-op being invented to meet our recruiting needs for Afghanistan?

Once again, we are eating the fallout of that very ill-considered and dishonest decision to paint the CF (and especially the Army...) as the Happy Blue Peacekeeper guys. We did tijs for so long, so successfully (even though we knew damn well it was not what we were about) that now we are having difficulty shaking it. Never again.

Cheers


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## 17thRecceSgt (29 May 2006)

I liked the end...

""The military operates through *secrecy, power and domination*, and students are asking why we've got them recruiting in a Catholic high school," says religion teacher Gary Connolly. "The military isn't the solution, yet we try to pawn it off on youth who are susceptible and economically vulnerable. Besides, the kids are too young. Let them be 19 or 20 before you start going after them." 

I had NO idea I was part of a secret society of power and domination.  I was jealous in the episode of The Simpsons where Homer becomes a member of the Stone Cutters, but...apparantly I have ALSO been a member of something like that...now...who knows the short cuts to work in Halifax?  Fes' up!

*Edit - I guess we should not allow the RCMP, Atlantic Police Academy and other similar organizations "recruit" at High school job fairs then (they also are secret power and domination organizations with firearms, tactics, a rank structure and options to use force if necessary.  yikes!   ) Just places that groom pets, grow flowers, teach yoga, cut hair, make pottery and other similar occupations.  Gee, I thought I had "volunteered" for the military in 1989.  

Andrew Cash, you really gotta get off the happy-grass buddy!  Slap yourself!  Repeat as necessary, twice daily.


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## a_majoor (29 May 2006)

They rolled this crap out in Windsor too, and here is Army.ca's answer (just as good in this case):

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42145.0.html


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## mainerjohnthomas (29 May 2006)

ROTFLMAO:
"Are they being sold a benevolent Captain Canada only to find that they are being shot at and shooting people? Is our military for humanitarian assistance and peacekeeping or is it an adjunct force to the [U.S.] 82nd Airborne?" he asks. "
      The C6 is not a tool to spread love and understanding, and the NCO was quite clear about what raising your fool head for an I/A stoppage will get you.  As far as teaching what those religious peace groups have done in history, the answer is simply only what the people with guns allow.  Gandhi worked against the British because they didn't want to kill the unarmed.  If he had tried that in Somalia, Rwanda, Sudan, Nazi Europe, the former Soviet Union, Cambodia or the villages of lovely Yugoslavia, he'd have been lucky if they buried him after they finished.
    I notice that Tibet is not free yet, and the peaceniks have been having sit-ins and cry-ins, and fasts and letter writing campains for decades with no results.  I notice Afghanistan is free, and that's because we sent troops to shoot people, and thus begin to create the peace and freedom the leftists are always whining about.


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## Nicholas2004 (29 May 2006)

This NOW Magazine article was written by the kind of person that believes Canada became a country in 1967 (not 1867), probably a couple years before he came here to avoid the Vietnam draft.

Canada has a military history.  Canada only exists because wars were have been fought (Plains of Abraham 1759). Between 1899 and 1953, no less than one hundred thousand Canadians have died on foreign battlefields, in the air or on the high seas - in four different wars.  Lester B. Pearson did not invent the Canadian military. 

The unforunate truth is that members of the Canadian Forces will continue to give their lives in service of their country long after our time.

To hide the reality of the real world from our children is to create a generation unaware of tryanny and unable to make sacrifices necessary to stop its spread.


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## aluc (29 May 2006)

I'm at a loss for words! I know this crap is to be expected....but this article is so biased and asinine that I can't even formulate a proper response as to how it makes me feel to read such nonsense.  Surely this "journalist" has got us confused with the SS, because that's what comes to mind when I read the article.(well only a portion of the article, I couldn't stomach the rest, but I got the gist of it nonetheless.) The army is depicted as some horrible place where young lives are ruined. IMHO teens in this country should have to do two years mandatory service right out of high school. It mayhelp to straighten some of these screwed up kids and put them on the right path to life, instead of dropping out of highschool and panhandling  on the streets of TO. 

Oh wait a second, trash magazines like NOW encourage that kind of lawless, lazy, destructive behaviour because that is what nurtures strong communities isn't it.  But we need free magazines such as this, or else the squeegee kids who decided not to join the Armed Forces won't have anything to wipe car windows with. Because as we all know, choosing to be a squeegee kid is an honourable and great alternative to not doing anything after high school.  You know what , if it weren't for NOW I wouldn't know were to find a good, cheap escort for those lonely nights. 

Oh, by the way unless I'm wrong, there are lots of Catholics in the armed forces past and present- what does that have to do with anything?


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## Michael Dorosh (29 May 2006)

Nicholas2004 said:
			
		

> This NOW Magazine article was written by the kind of person that believes Canada became a country in 1967 (not 1867), probably a couple years before he came here to avoid the Vietnam draft.
> 
> Canada has a military history.  Canada only exists because wars were have been fought (Plains of Abraham 1759). Between 1899 and 1953, no less than one hundred thousand Canadians have died on foreign battlefields, in the air or on the high seas - in four different wars.  Lester B. Pearson did not invent the Canadian military.
> 
> ...



_The failure of the Great War to produce its expected results - lasting peace, an ongoing prosperity, and the ever-widening acceptance of democracy - has caused that struggle to be viewed negatively...The war has certainly shown that, with the application of industrialization to the business of battle, armed conflict had become - even more than in the past - a cruelly destructive transaction...But this is not all that should be said. Offsetting, if only in a measure, warranted revulsion against this war...are three elements. 

First, ...war helped to generate, if haltingly, notions of a more equal and a more benign society. Women received the vote, the working week was reduced...and people thrown out of work acquired some entitlement to unemployment benefits. 

Second, the war advanced the notion that identifiable nationalities were entitled to self-government and self-determination... 

But it is the third aspect that most requires emphasis. Manifestly, in August 1914 the status quo of western Europe was about to vanish. Either the liberal democracies would engage in a terrible episode of bloodletting in order to perserve their independence, or they would avoid bloodshed by permitting the autocracy and militarism of the Kaiser's Germany to overwhelm them. 

The menace presented to these values by militant, expansionist kaiserism may not have equalled the horrors presented twenty-five years later by aggressive Nazism. But it constituted horror enough: the reversal of so much that had been achieved towards human betterment in the centuries just past, and the desolation of hopes for yet further advancement. Correspondingly, the Great War's vindication of liberal ideals and democratic forms, and its severe rebuff to rampant authoritarianism, was a mighty accomplishment....

The threat of German militarism had been removed, at least for a further generation, the lost French territories were regained and Belgium was once more secure. This was a just war, and a necessary war. The...expenditure in lives and in treasure was great, but there was no alternative, and the price paid, in this author's respectful submission, was worth that outcome. _ (Corrigan: Mud, Blood and Poppycock)

If historians can now defend the slaughter of 60,000 men in the trenches, how do we not defend 17 lives in the pursuit of our goals?


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## blacktriangle (30 May 2006)

I for one am trying desperatly to get into "machine gun high" and the recruiter mentioned in the article, whom I've spoke to a few times, certainly didnt try to con me into anything.

 If the CF offers a career I want, why shouldn't there be a coop for it? It's almost as if saying that my potential career has less value then that of a computer adminstrator, and while I can choose to be a carpenter, I'm to stupid and "easy" to join the army.

This is my caring face...


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## Kane (30 May 2006)

Certainly a very misinformed journalist to say the least. I for one went through the Co-op program and I don't regret a single thing about it. I find that I am now more disciplined, physically and mentally, more respectful towards authority, and more focused than I ever was before the program. I've seen the army straighten out the most messed up of individuals, and I've seen these same individuals thank their instructors for doing so. I believe the co-op program is purely beneficial to students in many ways and I recommend the program to many people I know.


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## George Wallace (30 May 2006)

I find the closing remarks, actually hilarious.



> "Are they being sold a benevolent Captain Canada only to find that they are being shot at and shooting people? Is our military for humanitarian assistance and peacekeeping or is it an adjunct force to the [U.S.] 82nd Airborne?" he asks.
> 
> Non-violence trainer and writer Len Desroches says all the talk about school boards merely offering career options just doesn't wash, because young people aren't being allowed to make fully informed choices.
> 
> ...



Seriously.  How do you make the military more secretive?  Take them out of the Schools.  Don't teach about them.  Don't let the students investigate them.  Don't expose the students to anything military.

Let the youth of the nation grow up to be totally ignorant of what evils lie out there in the big bad world.  Let them wander off and visit foreign lands where their lives and civil liberties are meaningless.  Places where the value of human life is non-existant, unless you are the ruling power.   <With a lot of Sarcasm> Sure educators would move us toward a healthier learning system, by presenting kids with other options, like Peaceforce Canada, Peace Brigades International or Christian Peacemaker Teams. <Sarcasm off>  But in doing so they would not be morally preparing them for the challenges and dangers that lay out there in the World.  We would be sending them off to die, defenceless, at the mercy of some very evil people.  People who wouldn't bother to send their bodies home, but let them rot in the jungles, mountain passes, swamps, deserts of some far off land.  <Sarcasm on> Just what we need.  <Sarcasm off> 

This was an absolutely brilliant piece of journalism........<opps!.......forgot to turn the sarcasm back on.....sorry  ;D....no I'm not>


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## S McKee (30 May 2006)

Got im Himmil!  Zee secrets out!...however he forgot to mention zee mysterious black Mercedes that delivers zee veekly payoff to zee shcool board so ve can recruit and indoctrinate impressionable young men and vomen into zee Hillier youth er I mean the CF. Sieg Heil   : Goof :dontpanic:


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## Trinity (30 May 2006)

What about cadet corps.

Sure they've been lightened up on the "military stuff" and more leadership and 
personal growth stuff added.... but....  my guess is that's almost as bad as
"machine gun high".  That would be corrupting our youth, but no mention of that
anywhere, and these are kids from 12-19 in cadets?  Much easier to "brainwash"
I would think as he would put it.


BTW.. I so would have attended any school called machine gun high.


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## Michael Dorosh (30 May 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> What about cadet corps.
> 
> Sure they've been lightened up on the "military stuff" and more leadership and
> personal growth stuff added.... but....  my guess is that's almost as bad as
> ...



Thanks to our being signatories of the treaty on "child soldiers", Army Cadet training has moved away from "military" training to a large extent, at least from what I hear here. It has been the subject of several threads in the cadet forum also.


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## vangemeren (30 May 2006)

I'm going to echo comments made before.

It's just another choice. If you choose it, fine. If you don't that is fine also. In the end you are free to choose whatever they offer (which is a lot and with a lot of variety.)

I went to highschool in Petawawa (good ole' General Panet), I would think that the author of the article would be "horrified" that a good portion of co-ops were at military units in a civilian capacity.


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## TangoTwoBravo (30 May 2006)

Cadets had had all "infantry/combat" training removed when I went through in the 80s, although my CFE course was still based on the Res QL3 infantry.  That was removed soon after.  In hindsight, not a bad call.  If Army Cadets teaches marksmanship, fieldcraft (not "battlecraft") and leadership then we still have a good citizenship program that can also prepare future soldiers a little better.  My CLI course and subsequent summer instructing on CLI have stood me in good stead throughout my career.

I think that the Left only recently realized that Canada had an army that trained to go and do bad things to bad people.  Perhaps the Canadian Left is feeling left out because we aren't in Iraq, and they've turned their agnst against Afghanistan and military co-op.

Cheers,

2B 

p.s. Regarding Machine Gun High, didn't Bart get credit for basic small arms by virtue of his attending public school?


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## S McKee (30 May 2006)

Yeah he did at Rommelwood Military Academy....Section L they smell. Simpson I wanna see my face in that horses a$$.....


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## Chubbard (30 May 2006)

Wow, I think I must be the only German guy on this board..
despite removing many military elements from cadets (especially Air Cadets), three of our squadrons warrant officers are attending RMC next year for pilot, air nav and airfield eng. Hopefully Ill be joining in them in a year once I finish my year at college getting my marks up. Cadets may not be as much like the military as it once was, but it is still foserting an interest in the forces in those that decide to see it through.


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## Steel Badger (31 May 2006)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> I liked the end...
> 
> I had NO idea I was part of a secret society of power and domination.  I was jealous in the episode of The Simpsons where Homer becomes a member of the Stone Cutters, but...apparantly I have ALSO been a member of something like that...now...who knows the short cuts to work in Halifax?  Fes' up!
> 
> ...


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## Rubes (1 Jun 2006)

I responded to this article last week, and an edited version of it has now appeared on their website, and I would assume in the latest issue of the magazine. My apologies if I made any mistakes in the response:

FAST TIMES AT MACHINE GUN HIGH
STRETCHED ARMED FORCES QUIETLY LURE HIGH-SCHOOLERS WITH PROMISE OF CREDITS AND CASH

*The first of many fallacies in this article.  Our recruiting drive is hardly a secret, and with the increasing number of TV and radio commercials there is nothing “quiet” about it.  Beyond that, I would think that our newest soldiers are joining for more than simply high school credits and money. *  
After MPs narrowly voted last week to extend our military mission in Afghanistan for another two years, most Canadians are still wondering how we morphed from UN-supporting peacekeepers into counter-insurgency killers of "scumbags" to borrow General Rick Hillier's delicate phrase.
*The UN supports the Afghan mission, as does NATO.  Peacekeeping is well and good when there is actual peace to keep.  For the moment, we must first stabilise the region, which in this case means hunting the Taliban and killing them.*

Just before the debate and vote in the House, we learned, sadly, of the death of Captain Nichola Goddard. Watching the news, I was jarred by a small biographical detail: she had joined the army right out of high school. That made me think of the large military recruitment poster I'd seen recently in the guidance office at my son's high school. 
It bothered me, that poster. It seemed so terribly out of sync with the confusion Canadians are experiencing over this sudden redefinition of our mission in the world. Do we really all agree that the Toronto District School Board should be allowing the military to freshen its far from robust ranks by infiltrating our places of learning? 

*I would certainly hope that we all agree that the military should be allowed to recruit in schools.  The military needs young people who are willing to do something to help those who cannot help themselves.  Believe it or not, there are still young people who want an exciting job that allows them to serve their country as well.  But perhaps Mr. Cash would suggest a few years of burger-flipping and drug experimentation for high school graduates?*

But it isn't just a few posters on guidance office walls. In a drive to expand the forces to fulfill its new, and unexplained, mandate, the Canadian military has partnered with the board to offer a military co-op program. 
In both Toronto's public and Catho-lic boards, the plan pays kids to join the reserves, gives them four high school credits and trains them in, among other soldiering arts, machine gun shooting and grenade throwing. For bored and impressionable teenagers, how cool is that? For the 18 kids in the Toronto program, I came to realize dishearteningly, the answer is very cool. 

*Firing machine guns and throwing grenades are necessary skills for a soldier.  Surely this is not a shock to Mr. Cash?  I suppose he would prefer we were armed with food stamps and positive reinforcement.*

Whether a military career is like any other is certainly open for debate. The problem is that there hasn't been one and some trustees want to know why. 

*Why does this warrant a debate?  The experience can only be positive, especially considering going overseas for reservists is completely voluntary.*
*** 
The atmosphere in the classroom at Moss Park Armoury, which, on the day I attend features a review of the C6 General Purpose Machine gun, is certainly not what you'd find walking into your local high school. Sitting erect in army fatigues and polished boots, each student/soldier has a beret neatly folded at the top left corner of their desk and a water canteen at the top right. All eyes are on the similarly clad and erect instructor at the front. There is a focus in the room a high school math teacher could only dream of. As I watch from the back, I find I'm sitting up straighter myself and writing my notes neater. 

After the class goes through a long list of what to check for if your C6 malfunctions on the battlefield, the real guns are toted in and eagerly set up on the floor. This is complex equipment. I've never been this close to a machine gun, never seen how one comes apart, where the bullets go, and I realize my heart is pounding. This is exciting stuff. 
Four students at a time lie belly down at their guns while four others time them on specific load, shoot and unload drills using dummy shells as ammunition. "Careful," yells the instructor as one kid gets up on his hands and knees to fix a jammed gun. "You do that on the battlefield and you're dead." There are a few chuckles. After all, the gleaming floor they're lying on is pretty far from a firefight with the Taliban in Afghanistan. 

"I'd recommend this in a heartbeat," Private Daniel McLean tells me at lunch break. I can understand why. Instead of wasting away in a tedious classroom learning how to chart graphs, these kids are actually doing physically and mentally challenging grown-up work. 
The camaraderie for which military culture is famous is also on display. McLean is a grade 12 student at Mon-arch Park Collegiate, and while he talks to me, others hold two of the heavy C6s aloft at once, posing Rambo-style while their buddies snap photos with their cellphone cameras. 
"This program is the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life, both emotionally and physically," he says. "I was going to go through the carpentry co-op program, but my co-op teacher at school suggested I check this out. I didn't join up for the money." 

But the money isn't insignificant for a high school student: $77 a day for four days a week from mid-February to mid-June. A dental and health plan is also thrown in, and if the students decide to stay on at the end of the course they can sign on for a paid summer training program that starts conveniently soon after the co-op ends. 
The military will also kick in up to 2 grand a year for post-secondary education. This beats part-time at Burger King. While both Toronto school boards have a few other paid co-op programs, the military co-op offers the best inducements. 

*Someone who is doing a 4-month co-op does not receive these benefits.  You must have more than 4 months of service to receive dental and health benefits, and the post-secondary reimbursement is a tad more complex than Mr. Cash makes it appear.*

"There is a lot of competition in To-ronto, so we have fewer kids in the program here than in other jurisdictions," says Sergeant Matthew Charlesworth, reserve recruiter for the 32 Brigade Battle School, the unit that runs the Toronto co-op program. "Military co-op is really good for us, since it adds another entry program." 
The military says Canadian reservists cannot be ordered into battle zones, as the U.S. is doing with its reservists in Iraq, but Private Jose Perez, a student at St. Patrick's Catholic Secondary School, is itching to go. "When I turn 18 I want to do a tour of Afghanistan," he says. "This is a really good career opportunity, and I plan to join the regular army." 

The school board seems to think it's not a bad plan either. "We look at this program from the perspective of giving students the information they need to make informed decisions about their future. And for some this is an excellent future," says TDSB co-op program coordinator Jackie Drew. 
But many trustees don't even know about the program, and when they are informed they express great surprise. That's the case with Toronto-Danforth trustee Rick Telfer. "I don't think there should be a military presence of any kind in our schools," he tells me. "It isn't only this co-op program. I am hearing anecdotally that there's a stepped-up presence by the military generally in schools, and I think this is alarming." 

*Where does Mr. Telfer think the military is going to recruit?  What is so “alarming” about this?  We need soldiers, and people entering the work force are the natural place to look.  He sounds like a typical anti-military left-winger however, so I will refrain from further comment.*

Catholic board trustee Angela Kennedy from East York was equally in the dark. "There was nothing ever mentioned that I know about," she says. 
TDSB brass say a mention of the military co-op was tucked into a report about at-risk youth presented to the trustees last June. By then, the decision to go forward with the program had already been made by staff. Telfer has served a motion to the TDSB requesting that staff provide a report on the nature of the program so trustees have a chance to scrutinize it. 

This would certainly be a good start. The crisp military brochures most guidance offices make available to students talk up the career aspects of the military while conveniently ignoring the elephant in the room: the fact that a soldier is trained to kill and die on command. Do we really want a merging of public education and military objectives when it appears we have no national consensus on our new U.S.-inspired war aims. 

*Our soldiers are trained to kill those who are a danger to civilians or other soldiers.  They are trained to kill the enemy, who in this case are terrorists and members of an oppressive government.  No soldier is trained to die on command; rather the soldier recognizes and accepts death as a possibility.  Our soldiers are not Samurai or Spartans.* 
   
"What are recruiters telling students?" asks Michael Byers, international politics prof at the University of British Columbia, who remembers teaching at Duke University in the U.S. in the 90s when no military presence was allowed on campus. 
"Are they being sold a benevolent Captain Canada only to find that they are being shot at and shooting people? Is our military for humanitarian assistance and peacekeeping or is it an adjunct force to the [U.S.] 82nd Airborne?" he asks. 

*Canada made a name for itself in the world because of its superb soldiers, not its peacekeeping abilities.  Canada wasn’t even recognized as a nation until Vimy Ridge.  From World War I through to Korea, Canadians fought and died for freedom.  Canada had a reputation for having some of the best fighting men in the world.  This appearance of blue-hat wearing humanitarians, passing out food stamps and walking old women across the street is an image contrived by the Liberals.  They are not peacekeepers, they are soldiers.  Peacekeeping is a tasking.  The 82nd Airborne is also one of the most celebrated units in modern military history.  If not for them, among others, we could very well be speaking German.  Show some respect for those who bleed for you.*

Non-violence trainer and writer Len Desroches says all the talk about school boards merely offering career options just doesn't wash, because young people aren't being allowed to make fully informed choices. 
Schools, he points out, don't teach the history and practice of non-violence and don't partner with organizations dedicated to non-military solutions. 
"By presenting kids with other options, like Peaceforce Canada, Peace Brigades International or Christian Peacemaker Teams, educators would move us toward a healthier learning system." 

*How anyone can be so disillusioned is beyond me.  Al-Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists don’t want a hug and a pat on the back, they want the destruction of western civilization.  Violence is sometimes necessary, as Peaceforce and others fail to understand.  We have to stop them before they fly any more planes into our buildings.  Unfortunately, I suspect people won’t understand this until Parliament Hill is a smoking ruin.*

While the military presence in Toronto high schools flies under the radar, teachers, parents and trustees in Windsor have pushed for a debate on the issue. Students and teachers at Robert F. Hall Catholic Secondary School in Caledon are waging a campaign to rid their school of its military presence altogether. 
"The military operates through secrecy, power and domination, and students are asking why we've got them recruiting in a Catholic high school," says religion teacher Gary Connolly. "The military isn't the solution, yet we try to pawn it off on youth who are susceptible and economically vulnerable. Besides, the kids are too young. Let them be 19 or 20 before you start going after them." 

*Secrecy?  Domination?  Who is he trying to kid?  The military is very open about its intentions, and merely informs students about their options.  No one is being forced to join, so where is the problem?  I also fail to understand what the school in question being Catholic has to do with anything.  Catholicism is not a pacifist religion and does indeed recognize that war is sometimes necessary.  It would appear that Mr. Connolly is teaching his students heresy.

Military service instils in people good character, self-discipline, and a moral centre.  Surely no one can object to this.  Those who believe soldiers are brainwashed killers have no idea what they are talking about, and need to get informed before shooting their mouths off.  * 


This is what they have put in their Letters section:

*Flip burgers or go to war * 
Fast times at machine gun high (NOW, May 25-31) is full of fallacies. The armed forces recruiting drive uses TV and radio commercials and is hardly "quiet." Our newest soldiers are joining for more than simply high school credits and money. The military should be allowed to recruit in schools. It needs young people who are willing to do something to help those who cannot help themselves. Believe it or not, there are still young people who want an exciting job that allows them to serve their country as well. 

Perhaps Andrew Cash would suggest a few years of burger-flipping and drug experimentation? I suppose he'd prefer we were armed with food stamps and positive reinforcement. 

Al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists don't want a hug and a pat on the back. They want to destroy Western civilization. Violence is sometimes necessary. We have to stop them before they fly any more planes into our buildings. Unfortunately, I suspect people won't understand this until Parliament Hill is a smoking ruin


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## pbi (2 Jun 2006)

Good response, and thanks for striking back. We should all do this if we are able. Interesting that while they evidently have room to publish their rubbishy articles at full length, they have to drastically edit your letter. Well, at least they published it!

Cheers


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jun 2006)




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