# "DRASH" (Or "Why I think I've gone crazy and everyone else is sane")



## chrisf

Alright, am I the only one who looks upon the DRASH with a sense of loathing? Does anyone else feel this is an absolutely ridiculous piece of kit?

Over priced, fragile, and a logistical pain to transport, what were we thinking?

Unfortunately, due to it's double layer of canvas, it's relatively well insulated. So everyone who walks into this warm (or cool) space-age-looking "marvel", who wasn't inolved it it's set-up, transport or maintenance, looks upon it, and in their best leadership pose, states "Ah, what a fine piece of kit, isn't this a great piece of kit?" to which I always reply "No sir, it's a terrible piece of kit" and follow with a detailed list of why I'd like to burn them all.

I could understand perhaps, if it was being used as a semi-permanent shelter, and you had a flat bed with a HIAB crane to transport it, but no, we (and many oher reserve units) are jamming them into weekend exercises.

Again, it looks space age, so everyone thinks it's brilliant... I'm begining to feel like I'm a lone crazy person, shaking my fists at a domed monster that only I can see... though unlike most (Unlike pretty much everyone)who gaze upon the beauty of the DRASH with love and admiration, I've had the opportunity to trial it against it's major competitor, the BASE-X expedition series shelters... which are easier to transport, maintain, and substantially more durable, while including all the same features (Double layer of canvas with air space between for insulation, hang points for wires, map boards, etc, ducting for heating/cooling systems, fully able to be sealed in the event of the need for  a sterile enviroment or in the event of NBC conditions) of the DRASH... but it doesn't look space age... it just looks like a plain ol' mod tent on the outside.

So am I crazy, or are there any other nuts out their shaking their fists at our shelter system?


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## Sig_Des

Eh,

They serve a purpose. They're not the end-all-be-all, but they're "OK".

They are a pain to pack up, and once the support struts start cracking, pieces can't be replaces as easily as with other tentage.

I am, however, laughing, picturing you shaking your fist at them...probably because at some point they've been picked up by the wind, leaving everyone to see you in your pantslessness

+edit to add - Besides, you were crazy long before drash came around.


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## chrisf

We did have one taking a flying leap... I've heard it was impressive... I however was in an LSVW at the time, with my foot flat on the accelerator, pants on, fully commando...

My major beef with the damned things is there's better items on the market, that have been on the market just as long, serve exactly the same purpose, and are cheaper (a DRASH XB6 racks in at about $30 000, a comprable BaseX racks in at $27 000).

If it makes you feel better, I'm sans pants as I type this. Wearing shorts though... it's been muggy lately.


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## chrisf

Oh, and as a bonus, the BaseX comprable to the XB6 packs into two compact 200 lb packages instead of one 400 lb package, can effectively be handled by two people (I've seen it handled by one beefy person) and can be tossed, dropped, and flicked around to your hearts content... once it's packed, unless you happen to back over it with a truck, no worries of breaking anything, unlike the babying involved in transporting a DRASH.


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## PuckChaser

My unit uses a DRASH exclusively for its CP during field ex's (one that we borrow from a Res unit, that can o worms is staying shut). I personally find it way more manageable than a mod tent system. I don't think its great for quick moving CP's, you need something basic like mod for that, but in a static location for a 2 week exercise, its an excellent resource. It has some learning curves, and some repair issues, but you can solve that with some training on it. We have a tendency to be hard on our kit when we don't need to be, and the DRASH won't break if you take the extra 5 minutes to do things properly instead of smashing and crashing about.

My only issue with it, is that it gets real warm in the summer as we don't have AC units. The 2 layer construction helps, but its still very hot inside.


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## Pearlina

Has any units considered working with the J-series or worked with them already?


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## RCR Grunt

Have you ever deployed a CP using the old mod-tent carefour (sp?)?  My old unit's BHQ uses carefour exclusively, takes the CP about 3 or 4 hours to set up proper, a comparable time to tear down, YMMV.  DRASH is a vast improvement, IMO, over the old school mod-tent.  If you brought some DRASH to my old unit, the Sigs platoon there would treat that tentage like gold and baby it like it needs to be, all in an effort to leave the modular tentage at home.


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## armyvern

DRASH ...  

An f'n logistical, maint & admin nightmare.

The sigs world does not have a dedicated shelter system, ie "all DRASH - all the time" ... and that's not a bad thing. You can't write up your requirements to "meet" the specs of a "certain" type of shelter - also a very good thing or I fear we'd see more than we already do of some of the available nightmarish systems on the market because someone thought X was better over another. Usually that someone is someone who only looks at it, rather than has to manage, pack, load, set-up, repair or otherwise give a &*%% about it.

Different shelters serve different units to different levels of impact. A smallish ResF unit with limited transport and other logistical resources is going to be impacted more negatively by the high maintenance & loggish nightmare that is DRASH. Other Units with redunadancies won't notice those same negative impacts upon their resources. The trick is to balance your Unit's actual requirements while considering your purple requirements and access to such; then to write up what you need that equpiment to accomplish. What they end up getting you may or may not be DRASH, but at least you won't be getting "X" for the sake of having "X" when your Unit would have been much better served by using "Y".


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## George Wallace

Anyone's Grunt said:
			
		

> Have you ever deployed a CP using the old mod-tent carefour (sp?)?  My old unit's BHQ uses carefour exclusively, takes the CP about 3 or 4 hours to set up proper, a comparable time to tear down, YMMV.  DRASH is a vast improvement, IMO, over the old school mod-tent.  If you brought some DRASH to my old unit, the Sigs platoon there would treat that tentage like gold and baby it like it needs to be, all in an effort to leave the modular tentage at home.



I take it you be long to a "Fair Weather Unit" (FWU) that only deploys when the sun is shining and the Temps don't drop below +15.   Drash is a very neat system, but does not handle being manipulated in extreme weather conditions, especially extreme cold, very well.


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## Swingline1984

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Drash is a very neat system, but does not handle being manipulated in extreme weather conditions, especially extreme cold, very well.



Especially when it is end ex and everyone just wants to get the hell out of there.  At the best of times a 6XB is a six man job, and it only takes one of those guys with little experience on the tentage or his mind on a cold beer or warm cup of coffee to break a "whack" (imperial measure which is equal to a "whole bunch") of the flimsy fiberglass support pieces.  The repairs usually fall to the Mat Techs in our unit and they bloody hate the stuff.  From a Line guy's perspective they are great once set up; all sorts of nifty loops for running cable.


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## Fishbone Jones

I've said it before in a similar thread on this equipment. If you hate it that bad and don't want it, feel free to send it my way and I'll put it to good use here.


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## Swingline1984

recceguy said:
			
		

> I've said it before in a similar thread on this equipment. If you hate it that bad and don't want it, feel free to send it my way and I'll put it to good use here.



I would, but unfortunately for you, our Officer's (if they could) would probably dedicate a day to it (the tentage) and award it with a CO's commendation or medal.  I can see it now..."For conspicuous gallantry in the face of an imaginary enemy the DRASH remained cool under fire and continued to shelter our coffee pot from the rain."


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## PuckChaser

In these "extreme cold" failures, what were the temperatures? Was there a heater running into the tent?

I left a DRASH for a week and a half on top of a hill in Meaford in February, with a torpedo heater running inside to keep it warm. Folded and packed up with no problems, and no broken stays.


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## Swingline1984

It was a Petawawa winter i.e. -30 to -40 with windchill.  Heaters were the norm and therefore so was ice buildup at the base (although an issue with any tent).  When you tear down in those temps with the last item obviously being the tent itself, not the heater, things get cold quite fast with everything opened up.  The other contributing factor is (as I mentioned) user error or lack of care.


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## PuckChaser

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> The other contributing factor is (as I mentioned) user error or lack of care.



I think that's the major issue with the DRASH, people treat it like they treat Mod Tent. You can throw a purlon, but you can't throw DRASH.


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## Swingline1984

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You can throw a purlon, but you can't throw DRASH.



Considering what it weighs.  No...no you can't.  You would look pretty funny trying though.


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## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I think that's the major issue with the DRASH, people treat it like they treat Mod Tent. You can throw a purlon, but you can't throw DRASH.



So?  Does this mean that you would not be wize to take DRASH into an area where bullets and bombs may be flying about, where it may be subjet to such flying objects or where one may have to drop it from the back of a vehicle or aircraft in a hurry?


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## wildman0101

You had a tent. Try sleepin in a slit beside your (armoured fighting vehicle) leopard
in a six inch trench (required) on dismount. Tarp-sleeping bag-roll the other half of
tarp over you. Or on the rear deck on said AFV. Better yet inside on a 6-7 week ex.
Just sayin. 
Scoty B
more to follow: you work with what ya got ,,,make the best of it or improvise, or make 
suggestion to improve what you have to work with.


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## PuckChaser

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So?  Does this mean that you would not be wize to take DRASH into an area where bullets and bombs may be flying about, where it may be subjet to such flying objects or where one may have to drop it from the back of a vehicle or aircraft in a hurry?



I think a mod tent is just as vulnerable to bombs and bullets as a DRASH. Its only slightly more robust than it when dropped. You can take 3 hours to set up a whole CP worth of mod, or take 30 minutes plus an extra 10 to make sure the DRASH comes off the truck carefully.

Yes, there may be better tent systems out there. But lets be honest, the CF isn't going to buy them for us. DRASH is far superior to mod unless you're hurtling it out of the back of a HLVW or MSVS, but that's solved by spending a little bit of time sweet talking a mat tech to make you a ramp to roll it on and off. You won't convince me to go back to mod tent.


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## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I ........... You can take 3 hours to set up a whole CP worth of mod, or take 30 minutes plus an extra 10 to make sure the DRASH comes off the truck carefully.



This is the second time you have mentioned "3 hours to set up a CP with Mod Tentage".  I am curious as to how big you are building this CP?  I have worked in CPs quite a bit and running out three or four sections of Mod, or a Penthouse, have never taken 3 hours.   The "Hubs" at Div Main and Div Alt may have taken up to three hours, but the "Hubs" have all been replaced by Containers dropped by PLS.  So I am curious as to how big this CP of yours is and how many people are setting it up.   With enough people who have set up Mod Tentage before, as you would find in the CP group, you should have the tentage up in approx 45 min.


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## armyvern

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I think a mod tent is just as vulnerable to bombs and bullets as a DRASH. Its only slightly more robust than it when dropped. You can take 3 hours to set up a whole CP worth of mod, or take 30 minutes plus an extra 10 to make sure the DRASH comes off the truck carefully.
> 
> Yes, there may be better tent systems out there. But lets be honest, the CF isn't going to buy them for us. DRASH is far superior to mod unless you're hurtling it out of the back of a HLVW or MSVS, but that's solved by spending a little bit of time sweet talking a mat tech to make you a ramp to roll it on and off. You won't convince me to go back to mod tent.



You forget that you belong to the largest 1st Line Unit in the entire of the Canadian Forces. We have resources here when we move that others simply do not; especially ResF Units. They don't all have the benefit of HIABs and or forklifts/zoombooms  and troop redundancies when they move like we do here.

And the darn stuff is still a drain on us Sp sqn purple people for maint and admin - even those Mat techs getting sweet talked.   

As for what the Cf will buy ... It'll buy what you require, and what you/your unit can support if you do your specs properly. I guarantee you, that you don't have DRASH now because someone said "I'm buying DRASH and wrote the specs that way". PWGSC would have halted that on the spot.


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## lethalLemon

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This is the second time you have mentioned "3 hours to set up a CP with Mod Tentage".  I am curious as to how big you are building this CP?  I have worked in CPs quite a bit and running out three or four sections of Mod, or a Penthouse, have never taken 3 hours.   The "Hubs" at Div Main and Div Alt may have taken up to three hours, but the "Hubs" have all been replaced by Containers dropped by PLS.  So I am curious as to how big this CP of yours is and how many people are setting it up.   With enough people who have set up Mod Tentage before, as you would find in the CP group, you should have the tentage up in approx 45 min.



I'm having a hard time understanding too... I've set up a 3-section mod tent with 8 people in 45 minutes in the bitter cold of an early Spring morning... as a cadet.


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## PuckChaser

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This is the second time you have mentioned "3 hours to set up a CP with Mod Tentage".  I am curious as to how big you are building this CP?  I have worked in CPs quite a bit and running out three or four sections of Mod, or a Penthouse, have never taken 3 hours.   The "Hubs" at Div Main and Div Alt may have taken up to three hours, but the "Hubs" have all been replaced by Containers dropped by PLS.  So I am curious as to how big this CP of yours is and how many people are setting it up.   With enough people who have set up Mod Tentage before, as you would find in the CP group, you should have the tentage up in approx 45 min.



IRU CP for Op Cadence was a Penthouse with 7 sections of mod.


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## SevenSixTwo

Why do the people hate the DRASH? I like it and it sets up fast. It's much better in my opinion than the Penthouse. However, I will admit it breaks. Me and three other guys on the hard points (Let me emphasize ON THE HARD POINTS not anywhere else) and two bits snapped just by lifting it up for no reason at all using it the way it was designed to be setup. I also noticed it had about 8 other broken parts once packed away. However, yes it does take basically 8 people to pack up and put away. However, once you have the damn thing up it's great to put things up like lights, computers, whatever you want and it was very warm inside.

Granted, I have never sampled something on the market similar to a DRASH. So I am biased.


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## lethalLemon

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> IRU CP for Op Cadence was a Penthouse with 7 sections of mod.



Ah, makes sense


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## Swingline1984

wildman0101 said:
			
		

> You had a tent. Try sleepin in a slit beside your (armoured fighting vehicle) leopard
> in a six inch trench (required) on dismount. Tarp-sleeping bag-roll the other half of
> tarp over you. Or on the rear deck on said AFV. Better yet inside on a 6-7 week ex.
> Just sayin.
> Scoty B
> more to follow: you work with what ya got ,,,make the best of it or improvise, or make
> suggestion to improve what you have to work with.



We're talking strategic CP infra here.  These tents are not for sleeping but to house all the C2ISR kit and absurdly giant TV screens for the boss (these structures only keep growing).  As for being uncomfortable in the field I've spent many a day sleeping rolled up in a cam net in the back of a line clack in between installations and I'm sure PC has similar stories so don't go all "my dad can beat up your dad" on us.  As for "suggestions to improve", they have already been made and that is why the Army is buying a new type of tent (sorry forget the name).


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## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> IRU CP for Op Cadence was a Penthouse with 7 sections of mod.



If it took more than 45 minutes to set up 7 sections of Mod, I would say that someone was fornicating the pooch.

I don't dislike DRASH.  I just find it is not as 'sturdy' and versatile as Modular Tentage.  DRASH does have places that it can be very useful, but it will also not be fitting in many more places.  I would also hate to have to set up DRASH in a wooded area that was not cleared and leveled first by a Coy of Engrs.  

I would say that Mod Tentage is more durable, easier to repair/replace parts, and more flexible than DRASH.  DRASH is custom built for its various functions, and not often interchangeable in those functions.  You won't find a DRASH shelter used for a CP, and then later used as a repair bay for vehicles.  You can set Mod Tentage up to suit your needs as opposed to adjust your needs to the tentage (DRASH).


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## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> IRU CP for Op Cadence was a Penthouse with 7 sections of mod.



.............And they didn't have much in that tentage or their hard shelter (in Blackdown Cadet Camp) as everything there was remoted in from the container.


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## PuckChaser

Siting the DRASH is simple if your Sig O did a proper CP recce. I know that's a stretch... ;D

The only thing I don't like about the DRASH is the fabric could be a little more tear resistant. But that would add to the weight of an already heavy piece of kit. Mod might be easier to repair, but that's because you have to repair it all the time. The only time I've seen Mod not leak is because the pieces were brand new. Mod's great for tossing into a truck and making an abolution point or mess tent, but if I have to work on shift for 12 hours a day on radio watch, I'd prefer to be in a DRASH complete with floor and heater/AC system.

I set up the CP about 15 times, we definitely did have have that much tentage. It was our field CP, the Blackdown CP was just because someone wanted it running and we barebones'd it with just a Penthouse. Don't get me started on that container though.... amazing capabilities (From TACNET to CSNI to HF) and I would love to have one, but the accreditation process and the hoop jumping required to get it running was just insanity. I was looking for a thermite grenade near the end of June to use....


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## armyvern

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Siting the DRASH is simple if your Sig O did a proper CP recce. I know that's a stretch... ;D



Fenced-in compound parking lots are good.   :blotto:

>


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## PuckChaser

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Fenced-in compound parking lots are good.   :blotto:
> 
> >



I think that's whats actually being taught on BSOC now, sadly.  :camo:


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## George Wallace

:nod:

Cuts down on running out all that Razor Wire, if there is already a fence.    ;D


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## Swingline1984

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Fenced-in compound parking lots are good.   :blotto:
> 
> >



I agree; devil and all.  Does anyone actually see much hiding in the bush in our future (although I would never be so presumptuous as to say "never").  KAF is probably the model for most future wars where you seize an airfield and build on it.  The tents, if any, soon giving way to hardstand.  In these instances DRASH would probably do us proud as it would most likely go up and by the time it came down be ready for life cycling anyway.


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## George Wallace

Swingline1984 said:
			
		

> I agree; devil and all.  Does anyone actually see much hiding in the bush in our future (although I would never be so presumptuous as to say "never").  KAF is probably the model for most future wars where you seize an airfield and build on it.  The tents, if any, soon giving way to hardstand.  In these instances DRASH would probably do us proud as it would most likely go up and by the time it came down be ready for life cycling anyway.



 >

Already planing on "training for fighting the Last War", as they say.

 ;D


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## Swingline1984

...and now that I've come full circle and managed to argue both sides of the issue I should probably call it a day.


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## SevenSixTwo

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Fenced-in compound parking lots are good.   :blotto:
> 
> >



Oh jeez *face palm*. At the very least I heard the Reserves are trying to go back into the field this year and avoid parking lots.


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## dan7108

DRASH = Tacvest

Penthouse/Mod = Chest Rig


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## SevenSixTwo

dan7108 said:
			
		

> DRASH = Tacvest
> 
> Penthouse/Mod = Chest Rig



Wouldn't Mod = Tacvest since they are both full of holes?


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## George Wallace

Any piece of kit that we have is crap to the persons who don't know how to use it properly and maintain it properly.  Every piece of kit that we have has its place and use.  If it is not used as it is intended then it will fail you.  DRASH has its place, but its place is not universal.  Mod Tentage is more flexible in where it can be used, and a much simpler system to maintain, repair, or replace.  If you want to compare apples to oranges, then go a head, but it doesn't help the discussion.  (Silly me.  We are comparing apples and oranges - DRASH vs Modular Tentage.)


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## Swingline1984

George Wallace said:
			
		

> >
> 
> Already planing on "training for fighting the Last War", as they say.
> 
> ;D



Well hey...the WW2/Korea model served us well for 50+ years.  ;D


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## SevenSixTwo

I agree with George on this one. They are too different to compare next to each other and both have their uses.


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