# Subsidized education plan for Non-Commissioned Members



## Sebastien_MTL (22 Jul 2011)

Hello, I am currently following the recruiting process to join the Canadian Forces and the recruiter that I have spoken with last time told me to contact the school where the course would be offered for my trade which is aerospace telecommunication & communication technician "MoS 109" and request for an approval for a subsidized education plan.

I was not able to retrieve information on what are the college courses to take when following a subsidized education plan for a non-commissioned member trade. I know that the education plan for officers includes taking university class level courses such as administration, social science, engineering etc. but for non-commisioned members I am trying to figure out what the courses would be. 

I assume that if the education plan would be same for an officer or non-commissioned member then every non-commisionned trade with subsidized education would not be worth since you could become an officer by taking the same college courses.

Thank you for providing me with details.
Sebastien


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## Haggis (22 Jul 2011)

This is copied from the Director General Military Careers Intranet site for Non Commissioned Member-Subsidized Education Plan (NCM-SEP:

"Through the NCM-SEP selected applicants will complete post-secondary institution (i.e., community college) programs that will fulfil all or most of the initial occupation training requirements of the Regular Force occupations entered. During the process of entering occupations in the NCM-SEP, applicants must be unconditionally accepted at post-secondary institutions selected by the CF and meet all CF selection criteria for the occupations of choice.

Selected applicants will be subsidized for up to two years. If individuals are already in suitable academic programs when they apply for the NCM-SEP, only the remaining year(s) required to complete the programs will be subsidized (e.g., year(s) two and/or three of a three-year program). The exception to the two-year subsidization rule is for the three- year program at the one French language institution approved by Transport Canada for Avionics Systems Technician 526 academic training in the NCM-SEP. Selected members in this French language program will be subsidized for up to three years (see Annex G).

For the NCM-SEP, individuals may be accepted as civilian applicants joining the Regular Force, as serving Regular Force NCMs through voluntary occupation transfers, or as component transfers from the Reserve Force."


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## Danny_C (22 Jul 2011)

I'm not sure if I fully understood your question but I think an Electrical Engineering Technician/Technology (2 or 3 year) program would be suitable for the Aerospace Telecommunication & Communication Technician trade. Something like this: http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/electEngTechnoControl.html

All information regarding the subsidised education plan can be found here: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/paideducation-96#introduction-0

As a disclaimer, I'm still in the recruiting process but this was some stuff I found doing a quick search of the trade and NCM-SEP. The recruiting centre can give you definite answers.


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## Occam (22 Jul 2011)

DanKnee said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if I fully understood your question but I think an Electrical Engineering Technician/Technology (2 or 3 year) program would be suitable for the Aerospace Telecommunication & Communication Technician trade. Something like this: http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/electEngTechnoControl.html



That program actually isn't suitable.  There is a list of approved institutions/programs, but I can't post it here due to size.

Sebastien_MTL:  Which city/province were you looking to take the program?


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## ballz (22 Jul 2011)

Sebastien_MTL said:
			
		

> but for non-commisioned members I am trying to figure out what the courses would be.



Would likely depend on the trade. Certain trades require you to do a complete technical program at a place like Marine Institute in Newfoundland.



			
				Sebastien_MTL said:
			
		

> I assume that if the education plan would be same for an officer or non-commissioned member then every non-commisionned trade with subsidized education would not be worth since you could become an officer by taking the same college courses.



Not everybody wants to be an officer...


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## Sebastien_MTL (22 Jul 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> That program actually isn't suitable.  There is a list of approved institutions/programs, but I can't post it here due to size.
> 
> Sebastien_MTL:  Which city/province were you looking to take the program?



I live in the area of Montreal, Quebec but i'd prefer to study in Ontario. I was not able to retrieve the list of approved academic programs listed under 

"CANFORGEN 226/10 CMP 100/10 122015Z NOV 10 NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER - SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION PLANS (NCM-SEP) - 2011/12 COMPETITION"

because the link provided in the document which contains the informations is not valid anymore.

http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/DGMC/ENGRAPH/ISS_S_NON_COMMISSIONED_MEMBERS_E.ASP  <----------

I would prefer to be enroled in the Canadian Forces and study at a military college rather than a public college. I know that there is a major school of electronics in Kingston, the School of Communications and Electronics (CFSCE) but I could not find the information if whether or not they offer a technical program for that.

I know that if I wanted to subscribe to an officer entry plan, because I have graduated in Quebec I would be required to take a 1 year course at RMC Saint-Jean in Quebec but I don't know how it will work for (ATIS TECH).

I was able to verify the information provided by the recruiter and I know for sure that the next step for me is to get a letter of aproval by an aproved college which will garantee my acceptance into the academic program for my trade.

You can e-mail me the informations if you want my contact informations are available in my profile.

Thank you,
Sebastien


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## Danny_C (22 Jul 2011)

Sorry for posting the wrong link. Please disregard my information. 

This may help. http://cfo-oafc.accc.ca/report_by_requirement.php


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## PMedMoe (22 Jul 2011)

Yes, you link is still valid - it may be a DWAN only link (intranet vs. internet).

You would not be able to take courses at t military college (e.g. CFSCE) because they do not offer the program.

From your link, here is a list of the courses given at institutions in Ontario for your trade:

Niagara College
Electrical Engineering Technician (0709)
Electronics Engineering Technician (0710)

Seneca College
Electronics Engineering Technician–Communications (ELCM)

Centennial College
Electronics Engineering Technician (3205)

Durham College
Electronics Engineering Technician (ELTC)

Conestoga College
Electronics Engineering Technician (2 yrs) (0064)

Mohawk College
Electronics Engineering Technician (402)

St Lawrence College
Electrical Engineering Technician (K1050)

Confederation College
Electronics Engineering Technician – Computers (Non Co-op)

They are all two-year courses.


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## Occam (22 Jul 2011)

Moe beat me to it.  I'll send you the entire list if you PM your e-mail address, but Moe has it all correct.

Not bad for a Med Tech.


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## PMedMoe (22 Jul 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Not bad for a Med Tech.



Even better for a PMed Tech.


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## Sebastien_MTL (22 Jul 2011)

Why does it says that the School of Communications & Electronics in Kingston, Ontario is said to have all the courses necessary to become an (ATIS TECH) on the recruiting website at http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aerospacetelecommunicationinformationsystemstechnician-18#info-1 in the section "Education & Trainning" as part of the BOQ which would correspond to the QL3 package for that trade and they also offer a subsidized education plan.

In other words is a subsidized education plan for that trade compulsory or optional?


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## Occam (22 Jul 2011)

Sebastien_MTL said:
			
		

> Why does it says that the School of Communications & Electronics in Kingston, Ontario is said to have all the courses necessary to become an (ATIS TECH) on the recruiting website at http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aerospacetelecommunicationinformationsystemstechnician-18#info-1 in the section "Education & Trainning" as part of the BOQ which would correspond to the QL3 package for that trade and they also offer a subsidized education plan.
> 
> In other words is a subsidized education plan for that trade compulsory or optional?



There are two recruitment streams for ATIS Tech.  One is NCM-SEP, which you already know is the subsidized education plan.  The other is the "straight-up" trade, where one enrols, and does the POET (Performance Oriented Electronics Training), and QL3/QL5 courses.  Even then, the training that the "straight-up" ATIS Tech has taken is not deemed to be equivalent to that of an Electronics Engineering Technician; it is, however, sufficient to actually perform in the trade.  The NCM-SEP program gives you the diploma and the civilian certification requirements.


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## Recruit_in_Progress (22 Jul 2011)

I'm in the process of applying for ATIS as well so I'm only relaying what I was told at my RC.

You can apply as unskilled and go through Kingston but they are not recruiting for unskilled until at least next fiscal year which he told me was in April. Only applications they are taking now are skilled workers or those willing to back to College under the NCM-SEP. Like I said this is what what I was told you may want to check your RC for yourself.


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## Sebastien_MTL (22 Jul 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> There are two recruitment streams for ATIS Tech.  One is NCM-SEP, which you already know is the subsidized education plan.  The other is the "straight-up" trade, where one enrols, and does the POET (Performance Oriented Electronics Training), and QL3/QL5 courses.  Even then, the training that the "straight-up" ATIS Tech has taken is not deemed to be equivalent to that of an Electronics Engineering Technician; it is, however, sufficient to actually perform in the trade.  The NCM-SEP program gives you the diploma and the civilian certification requirements.



I understands but my problem is that I doubt that I can succeed at the moment at a public college because of the condition of my current environment. I strongly believe that studying at a military college or trade school would be a key to success for me and for the same reason I am not ready for university class courses right now.

Also I live in Quebec and I hold a Secondary Education Diploma which is equivalent to grade 11. I don't think that a public college outside the province would accept me but even if they did it would probably not work for me.

Well, the trades which I have been applying for have closed twice and if I don't accept a subsidized education plan I might end up with a secular trade choice. Difficult is the recruiting process to get where you want to be...

Thank you for the informations,
I appreciated your time,
Sincerly,
Sebastien Paquette


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## Occam (22 Jul 2011)

That's a difficult situation.  As Recruit_in_Progress mentioned, the "straight-up" stream won't be hiring until next fiscal year at the earliest.  I know that high school in QC ends one year early (as compared to other provinces), and the community college system (CÉGEP) picks up there with three year programs, where they tend to be two in other places like Ontario.  I see from the list of institutions that many of the CÉGEPs offer accredited programs for NCM-SEP ATIS Tech, but they're all three year programs.

Good luck!


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## ballz (22 Jul 2011)

Sebastien_MTL said:
			
		

> I understands but my problem is that I doubt that I can succeed at the moment at a public college because of the condition of my current environment. I strongly believe that studying at a military college or trade school would be a key to success for me and for the same reason I am not ready for university class courses right now.



Occam correct me if I'm wrong here but:

The NCM-SEP would be putting you through a trade school, not a university. Electronic Engineering Technician is a trade ("technician" is the key word).

I am guessing English is your second language. Generally, when we say "college" we mean a "technical institute" or a "trade school," not a university.

So your fear of going to a university environment shouldn't be an issue through this stream.


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## Occam (22 Jul 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> Occam correct me if I'm wrong here but:
> 
> The NCM-SEP would be putting you through a trade school, not a university. Electronic Engineering Technician is a trade ("technician" is the key word).
> 
> ...



Yep, you're correct...I didn't really think much of it when he said it.  NCM-SEP definitely puts you through at the Community College level of academics, not really trade school level.  Trade school is another beast which is geared towards certificates rather than diplomas in fields like construction and industrial trades - with very little academics.


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## PMedMoe (23 Jul 2011)

Sebastien_MTL said:
			
		

> I understands but my problem is that I doubt that I can succeed at the moment at a public college because of *the condition of my current environment*. I strongly believe that studying at a military college or trade school would be a key to success for me and for the same reason I am not ready for university class courses right now.



Why do you think being at a "military" school would be any different?  IMHO, if you're unable to succeed at a civilian college, I doubt you'd make it through the military courses either.  Obviously, that may all depend on what you mean by "the condition of my current environment".  If you are having personal problems (be they domestic, financial, legal or whatever) then the military is definitely not the place for you right now.


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