# Helmet Cam/Scrim



## someguyincanada (26 Nov 2004)

I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to make a effective cam cover. I am currently trying and it doesnt look too good. Also can anyone post pictures of thier cam covers so i can have some idea.

Thanks...

Jay


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## soldiers301 (26 Nov 2004)

Take some scrap material or leaf and just attach it to your helmet scream. If you want you can also buy some scrap CADPAT material from CPGear. Here is the adress: www.canadianpeacekeeper.com 

You cannot buy directly from the website until Dec. 1st, they are currently changing all the website.


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## NATO Boy (26 Nov 2004)

Get some scrim from your QM... it usually consists of coloured Burlap or Canvas strips in Black, various Greens, Brown, Tan, e.t.c. When you put it on the netting, you just tie the strips with a knot onto it and spread it out. Then you strip it (kinda like scrimming a ghille suit) so it hangs like string, or grass if you will. This is the ideal way of camming a helmet but mainly you want to get rid of the silhouette that is your round helmet. Green and Brown cloth strips work good for this and work better if faded. Nylon scrim strips are good from peacekeeper because they don't retain water and matte, however, their appearance is a lot less natural than the other methods above. It's just a matter of what your RSM, CSM, course staff (if applicable), or you yourself prefer. Try it out.....


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## Fusaki (27 Nov 2004)

A couple other points to keep in mind:

Like NATO Boy said, you main idea is to break up the outline of your head and shoulders to disguise your silhouette. Use strips of scrim that are different lengths, with the longer stuff at the back of your helmet to give that retro mullet look. Likewise, trim the bangs so that you'll have nothing in front of your eyes. Remember: business in the front, party in the back!!

When choosing colours, remember that in the field its easier to use natural foliage to make your cam darker then it is to make it lighter. Use browns and greens, but go easy on the black. That way, if needed you can always darken it in the field.

As an alternative to burlap, you can aquire a second "individual cam - summer" (the cadpat camo sheet with a string in each corner) and cut it into strips to use as scrim. It lasts longer then burlap, the colours are right, and it has some volume.


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## Cooper (30 Nov 2004)

I find that cutting up an old t-shirt and scarf makes some good scrim. If you're like me and don't want to be without an extra t-shirt and the usefullness of the scarf, then go yo your local surplus and buy them. I would be shocked if those 2 items together cost more that $5.


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## KevinB (30 Nov 2004)

Why bother?
 IMHO when you have the helmet one youlikely have the MNVG and thus the scrim is more of a PITA than anything else.

Secondly I dont believe in helmet use for anythign but raid etc. and if one if tryign to break up ones silouette the helmet is not the best headguear to be wearing as it restircts visibility and other issues.

But then again I dont make CF policy, and so I just dont scrim my helmet - and explain in painful detail when asked why...


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## foerestedwarrior (30 Nov 2004)

Well in 32 CBG, the commander ordered everybody to have scrim on at all times.


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## trajectomologist (30 Nov 2004)

Scrim is in!!!
Cooper's right... use an old t-shirt or scarf. Cadpat material works too... 
As long as it has different variants of colour and it breaks up your shape.
Plus, think of what kind of environment your going to be in... green doesn't work for the desert.
Don't forget the principles of cam and concealment, shine, shape, shadow, colour, size etc...


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Nov 2004)

So I guess we shouldn't worry about destroying the camoflage and IR qualities of the CADPAT helmet cover then. Kinda bit of a waste to develop the technology, then cover it up and make it useless.


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## dutchie (30 Nov 2004)

I never believed for a moment that some piece of clothe hides the IR signature of my helmet...I'm no Physicist, but it seems kinda impossible to me. Even if it is true, what good is no IR signature from your helmet if the rest of you is lit up like a Christmas tree? Or are we to shroud ourselves in Cadpat, head to toe, with no exposed skin? As well, my helmet is 5 or 6 years old, so I think that by now, the abuse I have given it would destroy any 'special coating' on it. 

Cheers


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## D-n-A (30 Nov 2004)

.


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## kellywmj (27 Dec 2004)

Go natural, I say! Use the foliage in the area you are operating in, and you cant go wrong. Scrim gets hung up on all sorts of things,and its just plain lazy! Properly applied natural foliage kills any man made srim every time, and besides, cool as it looks, you are always having to take it off for COs parades, etc.


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## Bartok5 (28 Dec 2004)

For those who are fans of scrim, the most effective material that I have seen thus far is strips cut from the standard-issue individual camouflage screen.  Used as scrim, the CADPAT camo screen material is lightweight, durable, does not retain water (and associated weight), it dries quickly, has a decent amount of "loft" to it (to break up the smooth outline of the helmet's profile), it is fade-resistant, and provides the right mix of CADPAT colours.  

I've tried all of the other methods in the past.  Natural scrim is a time-consuming PITA that soon wilts and frequently requires replacement to match your changing surroundings.  When fresh and used in a static location such as the defence however, it is hands-down the most effective.  Strips of T-shirt, CADPAT material, or Burlap/Hessian are OK, but depending on the material they tend to get heavy when wet.  If you do use Burlap, make sure that you use the flame-retardent issued stuff that your CQ/QM can provide.  Untreated Burlap is a significant fire hazard, and you won't blend in particularly well with your head on fire...

Avoid the "shroom head" or "afro" appearance that comes from applying too much scrim.  All you will have done is created a bigger target.  As others have said, the idea is simply to break-up/disrupt the smooth curved surface of your helmet - particularly when viewed in silhouette.  This is based on the precept that there are no straight lines in nature.

Just my $.02.  A creative CQ and/or QM should be able to arrange some extra CADPAT screens for use as scrim, particularly condemned ones that have been previously damaged.  We used the CADPAT AR screens to make helmet scrim in Afghanistan, and it worked like a charm.

My $.02


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## The_Falcon (2 Jan 2005)

Keep in mind that some higher up may have different ideas about scrim than you.  During pretraing for Athena Roto 3 in meaford were told we all had to have scrim (for those who came from brigades/units were you did not have to have scrim 24/7) and it MUST be "CF" scrim.  I.E. the burlap the QM's usually stock.  We thought they were kidding until our section commanders were given rolls of the stuff.  Back in 2001 the meaford policy was no scrim on helmets while in the base area. So be adaptable.


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## KevinB (2 Jan 2005)

Hatchet shoudl be interesting when you get the MNVGs...


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## Jarnhamar (2 Jan 2005)

> For those who are fans of scrim, the most effective material that I have seen thus far is strips cut from the standard-issue individual camouflage screen.



This is what i did. Works perfect for me.  On my first attempt at it i cut the stips a little too short and I ended up turning my helmet into a chea-pet.   With longer strips it worked fine.

Only draw back being a private or corporal and doing this is having the odd passerby taking 2 minutes to come over and threaten you with jail time for destroying queens properity.  (This said to me by a sgt who had obviously cut down the brim on his cadpat bush hat).

In the end though I still think it's worth the odd jacking up.


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## The_Falcon (2 Jan 2005)

I didn't have a problem mounting NVGS to my helmet in Florida with the scrim on. Although I was medically rtu'ed from pretraining just as we had to comply with meafords request, so I didn't bother changing my scrim.  I still have to have scrim, 32 CBG Cmds directive and my unit RSM's as well.


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## Sapper24 (3 Jan 2005)

so your issued the scrim during your SQ course, right? Do you have to use the stuff your qm gives you or say you had an extra cadpat cam screen or some t-shirts, can you use all of that?


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## D-n-A (3 Jan 2005)

Sapper24 said:
			
		

> so your issued the scrim during your SQ course, right? Do you have to use the stuff your qm gives you or say you had an extra cadpat cam screen or some t-shirts, can you use all of that?



Depends, reg force BMQ you won't get scrim, but on some reserve ones your get scrim during BMQ(mostly you get it in SQ though).   On course, just stick with what they give you after you can use whatever you want.  You might not get anything from your QM, for scrim you can pretty much use anything, if you want to use a cadpat cam screen than go for it, a lot of people do.  On my helmet I just put on some stripes from a cup up t-shirt and the old thermal shirt aswell as burlap.


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## Troopasaurus (4 Jan 2005)

On my Reserve BMQ we were given strips of shredded Cadpat clothing and burlap strips for scrim.


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## Fusaki (4 Jan 2005)

> so your issued the scrim during your SQ course, right? Do you have to use the stuff your qm gives you or say you had an extra cadpat cam screen or some t-shirts, can you use all of that?



When you're on course, use whatever everyone else is using.


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## TwoEyesDim (4 Jan 2005)

During my SQ field week it was SOP for helmets to be scrimmed. We were issued the burlap strips. It had rained for most of that week and I had found when I was done the week, most of the scrim had fallen off or eventually would fall off. So after that disapointment I looked for an alternative. TShirts are cheap, durable and react interestingly when exposed to the elements. I cut the TShirt into strips and attacked it to the netting by cutting a hole just above on end and passing the other end through the hole. This I found was more effective than just trying to tie it on. My helmet got damp and realized that the strips curl. I continued to attach strips of diffrent coloured tshirt to break it up. After many many hours of cutting strips and attaching them to the netting and finally hitting it with a garden hose in the backyard and letting it sit in the sun, I have my very ditinct helmet scrim. I have since attached a couple peices of "stringed" burlap to give it some dimension. Here are some pics.

BTW. I have been following the forum for over a year w/o posting.


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## dutchie (4 Jan 2005)

I think that what you should use for scrim depends on where you live and what sort of terrain you train in. For the Wet Coast, where I live, most of us have cam screen, strips of old t-shirts and boxers (the old passion-killers, not poly-pro obviously), dark and black burlap, etc, with just a little light stuff to break it up. When I was in Edmonton, I saw a lot more light burlap and lighter scrim with a little dark stuff to break it up.

I always recommend to new guys to use what they were given on SQ/BIQ, and add what they feel is appropriate based on what they have (old shirts, cam screen), and what they see the Sr. guys in their Section/Platoon using for scrim. They might even have some extra scriml for them.


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## Bartok5 (4 Jan 2005)

TwoEyesDim said:
			
		

> I have my very ditinct helmet scrim. I have since attached a couple peices of "stringed" burlap to give it some dimension. Here are some pics.



Not to be sarcastic, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of "concealment" in that photo of yours.    

Just kidding of course....


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## KevinB (4 Jan 2005)

Look at me!!!!!! I'm a helmet


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## Farmboy (5 Jan 2005)

Helmet scrim hmm

 Think of it as a mini ghillie suit for you head  ;D


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## Sapper24 (8 Jan 2005)

Thanks for all of the info, so basically the best thing to do is use the stuff everyone else is using and use the stuff that they give you, then after the BMQ and or SQ course make the changes that I feel fit.


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## Lost_Warrior (8 Jan 2005)

One thing to remember is, don't be over zealous and scrim up your helmet only to find out not everyone else has it scrimed.

Remember.  If one guy has it scrimmed, either everyone has to have it, or no one has it.


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## George Wallace (8 Jan 2005)

Remember:  Your scrim is attached to a net and it only takes a few seconds to put it on or take it off.

GW


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## Lost_Warrior (13 Jan 2005)

Some courses want your helmet to have the net but no scrim (my SQ did).  One guy scrimmed his helmet and was made to take it off.  THey wanted us to have the net on so we were used to adjusting it and what not for the time we went into the field, and scrim was required.

Remember.  Listen to your course staff, and don't do anything on your own, or atleast find out first.


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## Blunt Object (5 Nov 2005)

I was on the Carl Gustav Range in Meaford for my DP1 course. I was back in the admin area watching buddy shoot his TP round and when he pulled the trigger his (being the number one on the gun) scrim burst into flames. I know this was dangerous but it was also funny. None of our staff have heard of this happening so I was wondering if there have been other reports of this before.


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## Freddy Chef (5 Nov 2005)

*Why things are seen*:

*Shape* -> helmet [ergo, scrim].

*Colour, Noise,* and *Movement* -> scrim on fire -> buddy doing "the funky chicken" to extinguish his scrim.

[Yes, an 84mm round going off might draw some attention as well.]

On a field Ex, one of the popular troops (biggest blade) in my unit had indigenous dry grass scrim in his helmet, and it *cough* suddenly *cough* caught on fire. [Wasn't a range Ex, with the Carl Gustav, either.]


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## paracowboy (5 Nov 2005)

Blunt Object said:
			
		

> I was wondering if there have been other reports of this before.


yes.


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## Armymedic (5 Nov 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> yes.



yes as well. I have 2nd hand knowledge of it.


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## Fishbone Jones (5 Nov 2005)

Hmmm, how hard is it to unsnap the chin strap and drop the helmet? If you really need to. I suppose some of the full house hedges some guys wear may be a problem, but normal scrim shouldn't be much of a problem, even on fire.


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## Britney Spears (5 Nov 2005)

I don't understand how anyone can effetively fire the CarG while wearing a helmet.


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## Fishbone Jones (5 Nov 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> I don't understand how anyone can effetively fire the CarG while wearing a helmet.



Brit,

You have to. Some Infantry Regt's in Pet demand that everything you do be done while wearing it. Once you see the guys in CANEX, on the weekend, shopping for the wife wearing their helmet and PT strip, it becomes normal


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## Britney Spears (5 Nov 2005)

Heh, well they can make me wear it, but then I might as well be firing at the moon, esp. with iron sights.


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## PPCLI MCpl (5 Nov 2005)

Put your helmets on...

Back in battle school, I was on day 6 of the defensive ex.  I was anxiously awaiting the arrival of first light so I could enjoy a smoke.  As I bent my head down to the CGI to block the wind, I sparked my zippo and lit up.  Rising back up, I looked over at my trench mate and the look of absolute horror on his face.  He later told me I looked like the comic character Ghostrider.

Helmets off.


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## wack-in-iraq (6 Nov 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> I don't understand how anyone can effetively fire the CarG while wearing a helmet.



or while on fire for that matter !


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## Forgotten_Hero (7 Nov 2005)

I was just wondering what you ppl think about artificial scrim? I find that when ppl have artificial scrim, it keeps them from taking the 5-10 min to put actual vegetation on their helmets and camouflage it better. The artificial scrim breaks up the silhouette, but it is still way more noticable than proper "living" scrim.


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## George Wallace (7 Nov 2005)

I suppose it would depend on what and where you are.  I saw no need in the turret of my Coyote, to pick through the foulage to scrim up my helmet, when that fowlage would be different at the next fire posn I took.  Artificial scrim served me just fine.  Although, a scrimmed helmet still stands out on top of a Coyote.  ;D


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## D-n-A (7 Nov 2005)

On my helmet, I have a lot of cut up burlap, scarf, etc Sometimes I add grass an other stuff to it, mainly in defensive positions or something like that, just have to change the natural vegetation every so often(replace the dead/dried vegetation with live stuff). Works for me.


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## cesare753 (10 Jun 2007)

Useless and goofy looking?

I believe so

Please post thoughts and opinions on helmet scrim


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## MikeL (10 Jun 2007)

I believe theres a thread or two on it already.

All I Know is my BN no longer wears scrim on our helmts.


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## George Wallace (10 Jun 2007)

Your inexperience is showing yet again.

Helmet Scrim may look stupid and useless to you and all your like minded buddies, but it has served its purpose in making a smooth rounded shaped object become less so and to disrupt its colour and shape from standing out like a sore thumb in an operational setting.  It has saved lives in past conflicts.

That being said, it is no longer used in current operations, as there is no requirements for it.

Scrim that does not have IR and Thermal defeating properties defeats those of the current CADPAT CAM Cover.  So if one is to use Scrim today, they must destroy some item that is CF issue CADPAT.


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## the 48th regulator (10 Jun 2007)

cesare753 said:
			
		

> Useless and goofy looking?
> 
> I believe so
> 
> Please post thoughts and opinions on helmet scrim



It's all about LCF man, LCF.  What are you new?

dileas

tess


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## medaid (10 Jun 2007)

Ah Tess, but he... OH!! Wait... is this one of those um... um... what cha ma call its? A rhetorical questions?  ;D


cesare753... did you learn nothing on your BMQ or SQ? Oh wait... you haven't gotten there yet. So BMQ... remember the lesson on 'Why Things Are Seen'? Maybe you need to revisit that lecture...


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## TN2IC (10 Jun 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> So BMQ... remember the lesson on 'Why Things Are Seen'? Maybe you need to revisit that lecture...




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bxw0T2rv7s


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## medaid (10 Jun 2007)

An of coruse we shall leave it up to our resident expert TN2IC to bring forth the lessons learned...


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