# MP demand for NDI/PRI



## Topgun (5 Nov 2010)

I am trying to locate the actual section that stipulates a service member/DND employee must show national defence ID upon demand of someone appointed under 156. Any assistance would be appreciated.


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## Gunner98 (5 Nov 2010)

Section 156 states: 
156. Such officers and non-commissioned members as are appointed under regulations for the purposes of this section may 
a) detain or arrest without a warrant any person who is subject to the Code of Service Discipline, regardless of the rank or status of that person, who has committed, is found committing, is believed on reasonable grounds to have committed a service offence or who is charged with having committed a service offence; 
b) exercise such other powers for carrying out the Code of Service Discipline as are prescribed in regulations made by the Governor in Council.
QR&O 22.02(2) spells out who is included in section 156: 
The following persons are appointed for the purposes of section 156 of the National Defence Act: 
a) every officer posted to an established position to be employed on military police duties, and 
b) every person posted to an established military police position and qualified in the military police trade, provided that such officer or person is in lawful possession of a Military Police Badge and an official Military Police Identification Card. 

Is this not clear enough for you?

How about this?

Military police personnel are "specially appointed persons" under section 156 of the National Defence Act.10 As such they have the power to arrest,11 investigate,12 and use force in certain circumstances.13 Military Police do not, however, have the power to lay charges (even charges for criminal offences) under the Code of Service Discipline.14 Only an officer or non-commissioned member authorized by a commanding officer to lay charges can lay a charge.15 

Military Police personnel are also "peace officers"16 under section 2 of the Criminal Code. Section 2 defines peace officers to include officers and noncommissioned members of the CF appointed for purposes of section 156 of the National Defence Act. The definition also includes any officer or noncommissioned member performing duties prescribed by the Governor in Council as being of such a kind that they "necessitate" the person having peace officer powers. In the QR&O,17 the Governor in Council prescribes the duties that necessitate peace officer powers as any lawful duties performed as a result of a specific order or established military custom or practice related to any of the following: 

the maintenance or restoration of law and order; 
the protection of property; 
the protection of persons; 
the arrest or custody of persons; or 
the apprehension of persons who have escaped from lawful custody or confinement. 
When acting as peace officers, military police have the powers of arrest set out in section 495 of the Criminal Code.18 They can also lay charges in civil courts without the concurrence of the commanding officer. 

The Security Orders for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces describe the jurisdiction of the Military Police as follows: 

MP are the primary police force of jurisdiction and exercise police authority with respect to: 
persons subject to the Code of Service Discipline, without regard to their rank, status or location; and 
any other person, including civilian employees, dependants, visitors or trespassers, in regard to an event, incident or offence, real or alleged, which occurs or may occur on or in respect to defence establishments, defence works, defence materiel or authorized Canadian Forces programmes, activities or operations. 
Prior to exercising police authority off a defence establishment, MP must first satisfy themselves that some other police agency does not have a right of primary jurisdiction. A connection, or nexus, to the Service is an essential prerequisite. In the absence of such a nexus, police authority should only be exercised by MP with the concurrence of the appropriate civil authority. Police authority is clearly distinct from the implicit duties and responsibilities of any good citizen. 
Where an offence has been committed in Canada by a person subject to the Code of Service Discipline outside of a defence establishment, the matter should be dealt with by the appropriate civilian authorities, unless a Service connection, or nexus, is apparent. In these latter cases, the matter may be considered a Service offence and dealt with accordingly.


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## Gunner98 (5 Nov 2010)

Or one more:

In accordance with CFAO 26-3, paragraph 28 which states, “ID cards shall be produced on demand of a superior officer, the military police, or by a member of the Corp of Commissionaires or a security guard when the commissionaire or security guard is employed on a Defence establishment.”


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## Topgun (5 Nov 2010)

Thats the one im looking for. If I had been looking for the most simplistic answer possible in a thousand words or more your first answer may have helped cause lord knows I wouldn't have looked in the QR&O's or the NDA first. Nowhere in any of your initial reply did it answer my question. Or perhaps the question was not clear enough for you at first.  Everytime you ask a question on this site you get some sarcastic reply. "Is this not clear enough for you?" But at least you answered my question. Thank you.


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## George Wallace (5 Nov 2010)

mloc said:
			
		

> Thats the one im looking for. If I had been looking for the most simplistic answer possible in a thousand words or more your first answer may have helped cause lord knows I wouldn't have looked in the QR&O's or the NDA first. Nowhere in any of your initial reply did it answer my question. Or perhaps the question was not clear enough for you at first.  Everytime you ask a question on this site you get some sarcastic reply. "Is this not clear enough for you?" But at least you answered my question. Thank you.



And thank you very much for your very snarky reply.  An answer was given to you, unfortunately it was verbatim, not the "Cole's Notes" version.  Your "thanks" just gave the person who was kind enough to do the research and reply to your question, as well as myself, a little more insight as to "who" you are.  Your reply was just as insulting as the "sarcastic reply" you allude to.


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## MARS (5 Nov 2010)

mloc,

Judging by your question and your reply, it appears to me that you had some familiarity with the regulations, specifically 156 (which I wasn't aware of).  Without having reserached it myself, this part:



> exercise such other powers for carrying out the Code of Service Discipline



is key.  You must be able to positively identify someone when you are going to apply to CSD.  Not an issue for a supervisor applying it to a subordinate, but a MP on a base likely won't know the individual.

Yeah, you do get some sarcastic replies here, but nothing worse than I see and deliver to some of my own subordinates (officers, in my case) who ask questions or present me with problems, looking for solutions when they don't follow the principles of Accuracy, Brevity and Clarity.  You would likely have gotten a better answer had you indicated - to those you are seeking answers from in trying to help you answer your question - what references you had already consulted and perhaps why you did not find them clear.

But that didn't happen here.  You asked for "any assistance" and you got it.  Take it or leave it.  But if you, regardless of rank, had come to me with that question, I wouldn't have been as gentle.

Regards,

MARS
milnet.ca mentor

_edited for "clarity"_


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## Gunner98 (5 Nov 2010)

mloc,

I am not insulted in any way by your reply and apologize for the unnecessary comment.  I regret taking so many words to answer your reply but after 27 years in uniform I do my best to avoid the answer because 'they can', 'it is not your ID card - it is issued to you" or 'it is your duty".  The delay between reply 2 and 3 resulted from having to do a little checking to see if the CFAO had been replaced by a DAOD or Mil Pers Instr.


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## MPwannabe (5 Nov 2010)

I work at RMC as a Corps member and depending on what time of day it is, if the person coming through does not have a student RMC pass and only has his/her Military ID, then I turn them around at the gate.

Edit: I also have many soldiers come through in uniform, and I'll ask them for ID. There have been many who've asked me 'why do I need to show you ID? I'm in uniform!'. I then have to explain that any retard can go buy a uniform from any Army Surplus store, and then decided it would be cool to drive on base pretending to be a soldier.


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## Journeyman (5 Nov 2010)

mloc said:
			
		

> If I had been looking for the most simplistic answer possible in a thousand words or more ....



If nothing else, you've confirmed that first impressions (ours and yours) can be lasting.





			
				mloc said:
			
		

> Alas, fear not, my first experience (very first question even) on this site, has sufficiently opened my eyes to the realization that this site is not the place for me, or my similarly dull witted friends and colleagues.


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## George Wallace (5 Nov 2010)

Isn't the Internet grand.


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