# RCAF Flight Suit (ALSE) - Split from VAdm Norman



## Eye In The Sky (12 May 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Yea that was embarrassing to watch. Poor guy.



The majority of it was rather annoying to sit thru and listen to the  :blah:.

The end, the "what we're doing is making sure the CF has the equipment it needs" etc etc.

Ya?  How 'bout those flight suits we've been waiting for since...forever.  I know, it is a complicated piece of kit...you know, 1 piece coveralls or 2 piece shirt/pants.  I can see why it is taking years and years to come up with them.   :sarcasm:


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## PPCLI Guy (12 May 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ya?  How 'bout those flight suits we've been waiting for since...forever.  I know, it is a complicated piece of kit...you know, 1 piece coveralls or 2 piece shirt/pants.  I can see what it is taking years and years to come up with them.



That has nothing to do with the MND or the colour of car that his boss drives.  It has everything to do with DND / CAF incompetence.


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## Eye In The Sky (12 May 2019)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> That has nothing to do with the MND or the colour of car that his boss drives.  It has everything to do with DND / CAF incompetence.



It is, we've been told, a problem outside DND/CAF control.  I'll take the words of the Div Comd and Wing Comd as credible and assume they aren't purposely BSing people at townhalls.  

But hey, come to think of it the CAF has been able to get some high priority kit relatively quickly...stuff like...gorgets, forage caps and red bands to go with them.     This 'operational kit' stuff...what a nuisance!!

Flying suits are required equipment to conduct air operations.  They are part of our ALSE, in fact.  But, you're saying the MND is not responsible ensuring the CAF is equipped properly? This seems to suggest otherwise.  Perhaps I am reading it incorrectly?  

Minister of National Defence Mandate Letter (November 12, 2015)

As Minister of National Defence, your overarching goal will be to ensure that the Canadian Armed Forces are equipped and prepared, if called upon, to protect Canadian sovereignty, defend North America, provide disaster relief, conduct search and rescue, support United Nations peace operations, and contribute to the security of our allies and to allied and coalition operations abroad. 

In particular, I will expect you to work with your colleagues and through established legislative, regulatory, and Cabinet processes to deliver on your top priorities:

(#2)  • Ensure that the Canadian Armed Forces have the equipment they need

Yours sincerely,

*Prime Minister of Canada signature*

Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau, P.C., M.P.
 Prime Minister of Canada


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## daftandbarmy (12 May 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The majority of it was rather annoying to sit thru and listen to the  :blah:.
> 
> The end, the "what we're doing is making sure the CF has the equipment it needs" etc etc.
> 
> Ya?  How 'bout those flight suits we've been waiting for since...forever.  I know, it is a complicated piece of kit...you know, 1 piece coveralls or 2 piece shirt/pants.  I can see why it is taking years and years to come up with them.   :sarcasm:



How bad is it right now? I'm guessing that there are no exchanges available for current suits, or something like that...


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## SupersonicMax (12 May 2019)

The Fighter Force has been wearing NATO-style flight suit for the last 6 months.  I really think we need to go this way in general...


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## dimsum (12 May 2019)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> The Fighter Force has been wearing NATO-style flight suit for the last 6 months.  I really think we need to go this way in general...



Is that the US-style one?  If so, yes and stitch the ranks on.

The USN also has a 2-piece for their helo crews that is worn untucked.  Last time I was in San Diego their crews were pretty happy with it.


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## SupersonicMax (12 May 2019)

Yes, same style as US.  Now, if they could add hand warmers, it’d be the perfect flight suit.  But I’ll take that one any day before the piece of garbage we have.


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## dimsum (13 May 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> How bad is it right now? I'm guessing that there are no exchanges available for current suits, or something like that...



Pretty much.  They had allowed the wearing of tan flight suits in Canada but I haven't seen anyone actually doing that, at least in Comox.  Some people are down to their last 1 or 2 serviceable ones, and there aren't any rumblings of any more coming yet.


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## Sub_Guy (13 May 2019)

I got lucky here in CYWG. I successfully exchanged my old very faded flight suit for a never been worn (old style) one. It felt like Christmas.


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## FSTO (13 May 2019)

Why is getting flight suits so hard? 

Is this another case of Canada trying to Canadianize an already proven concept. With the usual hilarious (and costly) results?


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## dimsum (13 May 2019)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Why is getting flight suits so hard?
> 
> Is this another case of Canada trying to Canadianize an already proven concept. With the usual hilarious (and costly) results?



Pretty much yes.  Also, we're the only country I've seen with pen pockets on the legs (calves) rather than the arms, and the plastic clips for papers, etc on the thighs.  Our flight suits (and I think the UK ones?) have hip pockets too.


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## dapaterson (13 May 2019)

If only there were a senior departmental official, like, say, an assistant deputy minister, responsible for materiel for the military, who we could hold to account for such shortfalls...


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## Humphrey Bogart (13 May 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The majority of it was rather annoying to sit thru and listen to the  :blah:.
> 
> The end, the "what we're doing is making sure the CF has the equipment it needs" etc etc.
> 
> Ya?  How 'bout those flight suits we've been waiting for since...forever.  I know, it is a complicated piece of kit...you know, 1 piece coveralls or 2 piece shirt/pants.  I can see why it is taking years and years to come up with them.   :sarcasm:



If it makes you feel better, I don't have a rain coat as there is a shortage of blue rain gear in the RCN.  

I could go down to MEC and buy myself a blue jacket today, that's too difficult for the CAF though.

I can smoke weed and grow a beard though so we are gucci  :rofl:


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## Eye In The Sky (13 May 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> If only there were a senior departmental official, like, say, an assistant deputy minister, responsible for materiel for the military, who we could hold to account for such shortfalls...



Someone like that being held accountable for something?

 :rofl:  

But hey, we did get gorgets and forage caps w/red bands quickly!


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## daftandbarmy (13 May 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> If only there were a senior departmental official, like, say, an assistant deputy minister, responsible for materiel for the military, who we could hold to account for such shortfalls...



... or a previous CDS who was a fighter pilot  :


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## Eye In The Sky (13 May 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> ... or a previous CDS who was a fighter pilot  :



Gen Lawson was replaced by Gen Vance in July 2015;  the 'shortage' started sometime in the last 2-3 years.   :2c:

Flying suits isn't the only shortage for aircrew;  PRTs (aircrew knife), flying gloves.  I've had to wait over 2 months for tshirts in my size.  This is basic stuff.

As for the thread title...ALSE would be more accurate than PPE.


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## kev994 (13 May 2019)

On the plus side, the ever-exploding flight gloves is now a desirable feature. I need a bare finger or 2 for my EFB (ipad), the fact that my gloves won't stay stitched together is now a good thing.

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk


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## dimsum (13 May 2019)

kev994 said:
			
		

> On the plus side, the ever-exploding flight gloves is now a desirable feature. I need a bare finger or 2 for my EFB (ipad), the fact that my gloves won't stay stitched together is now a good thing.



See?  It's a feature, not a bug!   ;D


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## Quirky (13 May 2019)

Why is it that aircrew can’t get flight suits issued yet every member in 431Sqn gets two-three custom fitted suits they keep forever. From techs to clerks to supply techs, the majority of whom will never see the cockpit. Must be different budgets....


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## Lumber (20 Sep 2022)

Saw an Army Capt walking around Stadacona at CFB Halifax in a flight suit.

In what scenario would an Army Capt weara flight suit, and why would he _still _need to be wearing it while at Stad, where I assume he was taking some kind of short term course (there was a civil-military provincial liaison course running last week, so it might have been that).


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## Good2Golf (20 Sep 2022)

Was it a flying suit, or crew suit? If a flying suit (assuming OG, since you didn’t say CADPAT)  what was the hat badge?  Spec wings? ‘Army’ (ie. Land element) Flight Surgeons wear flying suits.  Other land element MOSIDs can wear flying suits if they are involved in duties as a flight crew member and the regular (enough) nature of their involvement includes FR clothing.  I’ve seen it up to Maj (LCol flight surgeon) and there is a specific scale of issue used for ALSE issue to non-aircrew.


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## Lumber (20 Sep 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> Was it a flying suit, or crew suit? If a flying suit (assuming OG, since you didn’t say CADPAT)  what was the hat badge?  Spec wings? ‘Army’ (ie. Land element) Flight Surgeons wear flying suits.  Other land element MOSIDs can wear flying suits if they are involved in duties as a flight crew member and the regular (enough) nature of their involvement includes FR clothing.  I’ve seen it up to Maj (LCol flight surgeon) and there is a specific scale of issue used for ALSE issue to non-aircrew.


Unfortunately, I didn't get that much detail. It was an OD flight suit, and the only other detail I remember is that he had three pips on his shoulder and was wearing a green beret.


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## SeaKingTacco (20 Sep 2022)

Lumber said:


> Unfortunately, I didn't get that much detail. It was an OD flight suit, and the only other detail I remember is that he had three pips on his shoulder and was wearing a green beret.


Probably a flight surgeon.


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Sep 2022)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Probably a flight surgeon.



There is a Flt Srgn course on the go; they were doing famil flights in the Ditch late last week.  Not a stretch to have them at a Stad this week. 

Could be a Flt Srgn taking or doing some Div medical trg there too maybe?


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## SupersonicMax (20 Sep 2022)

Most important questions: was the flight suit falling apart or different shades of OG?  If not to both, I call fake news.


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## Good2Golf (21 Sep 2022)

SupersonicMax said:


> Most important questions: was the flight suit falling apart or different shades of OG?  If not to both, I call fake news.


😆 You could always tell who sits in which side of multi-crew cockpit by which shoulder was more bleached white…


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## kev994 (21 Sep 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> 😆 You could always tell who sits in which side of multi-crew cockpit by which shoulder was more bleached white…


Always put the FO in the left when flying West and the right when flying East…. Keeps it fair…. Also, you don’t get the sun in your eyes as much.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> 😆 You could always tell who sits in which side of multi-crew cockpit by which shoulder was more bleached white… is an Acoustician by the peanut butter and drool stains on their flight suit when going ONSTA....



May as well take a shot when they're not around!  😁


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## Good2Golf (21 Sep 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> May as well take a shot when they're not around!  😁


I heard stories of Acoustics falling asleep under their keyboard and rolling into their ICS Tx bar as they snored…so not just a story then? 😆


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Sep 2022)

Good2Golf said:


> I heard stories of Acoustics falling asleep under their keyboard and rolling into their ICS Tx bar as they snored…so not just a story then? 😆



I'm not personally aware of this one BUT....I would say "believable"


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## dimsum (22 Sep 2022)

Lumber said:


> Unfortunately, I didn't get that much detail. It was an OD flight suit, and the only other detail I remember is that he had three pips on his shoulder and was wearing a green beret.


While prob a flight surgeon, Flight Nurses also wear flight suits.









						Canadian officer trains with U.S. aeromedical evacuation team
					

For as long as there have been planes landing at Scott AFB, there have been aeromedical evacuation missions.



					www.scott.af.mil


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

Bit of info for anyone who isn't a RCAF Hanger user;  some updates on the RCAF 2 piece flying clothing/flight suit front.

ATLAS (All Temperature Layer Aircrew System)

From an email that was socialized around my Wing:

This prototype came from a recent Comd Vector check submission of Flight Clothing modernization project. You can see more details on the actual Hangar App Ideas portal . Flight clothing modernization - Ideas – Hangar (rcafhangar.ca)

The comment from the originator of the idea was “The ATLAS will be as implied by its name a layered system. The preceding garments are the cold weather mid-layer and the warm weather base layer. It is designed so that dual layer is inherent in the construction of both the shirt and trousers using light weight material that is fire resistant. The system will also require base layer of the Airforce blue T shirt in garrison but may be layered down to single layer when weather conditions necessitate. It is designed to have the shirt untucked during flying operations to maximize cooling effect when desired by crewmembers. There is currently an SOCD in progress for the ACE outerwear and I recommend similar design changes to make the new outer shell garments compatible with both the ATLAS and new ALSE systems in phase 2. Some recommendations would be leveraging new material technology like fire resistant Goretex waterproof fabrics in the jacket and pants and providing multiple insulation levels for extreme cold weather. Development of ATLAS will enable all of our aircrew to perform their duties with decreased environmental, and anthropomorphic stress. It will also show a meaningful investment in the wellbeing of our female crewmembers giving them a garment that will be functional for all. ATLAS will be a great showpiece of embracing aircrew identity within the RCAF while functionally focusing on uniformity, and will be a great highlight to the upcoming 100th anniversary of the RCAF.”

For Hangar app users who might not be tracking this one yet:   Hangar

There were some updates to the aircrew SOI (319), I've only tracked the changes in 319AB (Basic Issue) and AM (LRP).  The latest copy that's comes down thru the ALSEO net was Jul 2022...that update included "the 2 piece CAG flying suit is being phased and will be issued until zero stock". 

Having said that, I was able to get a brand new shirt out of Wing Clothing yesterday morning; hopefully the period between "zero stock" and "initial issue" of the new 2 piece will be nil (preferred) or minimal.


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## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Having said that, I was able to get a brand new shirt out of Wing Clothing yesterday morning; hopefully the period between "zero stock" and "initial issue" of the new 2 piece will be nil (preferred) or minimal.


What's the over-under on that actually happening?


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

dimsum said:


> What's the over-under on that actually happening?



Something like this...


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## Halifax Tar (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Something like this...



Howd you get a .gif of me and my pals in Supply ?


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## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Howd you get a .gif of me and my pals in Supply ?


That's all good until the RCAF looks at the RCN's new NCDs and thinks "hey, those are fire-retardant, right?"


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

dimsum said:


> That's all good until the RCAF looks at the RCN's new NCDs and thinks "hey, those are fire-retardant, right?"



Can we get them in tan vice black?  So much easier to hide peanut butter stains and coffee drips....


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## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Can we get them in tan vice black?  So much easier to hide peanut butter stains and coffee drips....


To not be mistaken for the Navy I mean...to be more operational.  

Yeah...


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## Halifax Tar (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Can we get them in tan vice black?  So much easier to hide peanut butter stains and coffee drips....



I never understood the tan uniforms the zoomies insist on at sea.


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## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> I never understood the tan uniforms the zoomies insist on at sea.


To not be mistaken for the Navy I mean...to be more operational.


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## dapaterson (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Can we get them in tan vice black?  So much easier to hide peanut butter stains and coffee drips....


Say you're an ACSO or AESOP without saying you're an ACSO or AESOP...


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> I never understood the tan uniforms the zoomies insist on at sea.



The hybrid shirt, I get that for sure.  I'm actually not sure about the rest.  I didn't find the tan flying stuff any cooler than the green ones, I'd say they breathed LESS for some odd reason.

But, ya arid pattern on a ship?  🤷‍♂️


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## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> I didn't find the tan flying stuff any cooler than the green ones, I'd say they breathed LESS for some odd reason.


You haven't washed it 50 times and watch it become aircrew lingerie.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

dapaterson said:


> Say you're an ACSO or AESOP without saying you're an ACSO or AESOP...



"I'm sorry, did you say "_*shared*_ rooms"?


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

dimsum said:


> You haven't washed it 50 times and watch it become aircrew lingerie.



lingerie  LOL LOL


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## Halifax Tar (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> The hybrid shirt, I get that for sure.  I'm actually not sure about the rest.  I didn't find the tan flying stuff any cooler than the green ones, I'd say they breathed LESS for some odd reason.
> 
> But, ya arid pattern on a ship?  🤷‍♂️



How much cooler does one need to get in the middle of the North Atlantic ? Lol


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> How much cooler does one need to get in the middle of the North Atlantic ? Lol



Is that just standard now, regardless of where the ship is going??


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## Halifax Tar (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Is that just standard now, regardless of where the ship is going??



Yip


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Yip



Ok, I'm a bit curious.  

SKT;  what's the thought process on this?  I'm baffled - even when we went on CARIBBE and it was hot as bawls, we still went in green.  The only times I was in tan stuff was IMPACT.


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## kev994 (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> I never understood the tan uniforms the zoomies insist on at sea.


I’ve never understood why the Navy wants to be camouflaged in the water. Everyone can see the boat, and if you fall in the water I’m pretty sure you’re not playing hide-and-seek.


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## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> ? I'm baffled - even when we went on CARIBBE and it was hot as bawls, we still went in green.


Maybe the crews should have asked for tan?


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## kev994 (8 Nov 2022)

dimsum said:


> Maybe the crews should have asked for tan?


It’s not on your SOI…. It’s not on your CFTPO… does not compute…


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## FSTO (8 Nov 2022)

kev994 said:


> I’ve never understood why the Navy wants to be camouflaged in the water. Everyone can see the boat, and if you fall in the water I’m pretty sure you’re not playing hide-and-seek.


NCDs are flat black, the RCAF are the ones wearing camo or tan. You maybe thinking of tte USN “blueberries” which are being phased out. 

If the Navy really wanted to be visible in the water then our NCDs should be a bright orange. But then I doubt they’d be very popular as “Walking Out” dress.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

Seems to work okay for some RCAF types   😁 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015973179070742528


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## FSTO (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Seems to work okay for some RCAF types   😁
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015973179070742528


Flight suits are cooler than NCDs, unless you’re fat.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

FSTO said:


> Flight suits are cooler than NCDs, unless you’re fat.



I haven't seen any high-tension orange flight suits...but I can't say the same for green ones.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2022)

The new SAR flying suit to compare to proposed ATLAS:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509233931463368708


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## SeaKingTacco (8 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Ok, I'm a bit curious.
> 
> SKT;  what's the thought process on this?  I'm baffled - even when we went on CARIBBE and it was hot as bawls, we still went in green.  The only times I was in tan stuff was IMPACT.


Don’t really know. I thought the green nomex suits were a massive improvement on the blue wool flight suits. I have never tried the arid suits.


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## dimsum (9 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> The new SAR flying suit to compare to proposed ATLAS:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509233931463368708


I've been following the ATLAS progression on RCafe.  They look similar, but the proposal came out before the SAR Tech suits were publicized.


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## captloadie (9 Nov 2022)

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but the ATLAS suit is meant only as a concept prototype. The positive aspects will be retained and incorporated into whatever the new version will look like, which, when I last checked, was not expected to be in final development for several years to come. Unless someone can convince the Comd RCAF to write off the 14,000 off pairs of one-piece suits recently procured and the 5-7k sets of two-piece CADPAT versions, there is no appetite to expedite the process.


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## SupersonicMax (9 Nov 2022)

captloadie said:


> I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but the ATLAS suit is meant only as a concept prototype. The positive aspects will be retained and incorporated into whatever the new version will look like, which, when I last checked, was not expected to be in final development for several years to come. Unless someone can convince the Comd RCAF to write off the 14,000 off pairs of one-piece suits recently procured and the 5-7k sets of two-piece CADPAT versions, there is no appetite to expedite the process.


If everyone goes through flight suits at the rate I go through them, we should be out in a year.  I imagine quality and durability wasn’t part of the SOR…


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## SeaKingTacco (9 Nov 2022)

SupersonicMax said:


> If everyone goes through flight suits at the rate I go through them, we should be out in a year.  I imagine quality and durability wasn’t part of the SOR…


Maybe you should tone down the crud games?


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Nov 2022)

captloadie said:


> I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but the ATLAS suit is meant only as a concept prototype. The positive aspects will be retained and incorporated into whatever the new version will look like, which, when I last checked, was not expected to be in final development for several years to come. Unless someone can convince the Comd RCAF to write off the 14,000 off pairs of one-piece suits recently procured and the 5-7k sets of two-piece CADPAT versions, there is no appetite to expedite the process.



I’d just like to thank to dumbass who decided LRP doesn’t need 2 piece, and would like them to be ordered on  the next CARIBBE with a 1 piece and made to do every single flight.  Remember your Pepto!

Then, go on SCC or something in the summer and work nothing but Ordnance for each flight.

Of course it would be stupid to issue the CADPAT 2 piece to anyone other than TH…


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## dimsum (9 Nov 2022)

captloadie said:


> I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but the ATLAS suit is meant only as a concept prototype. The positive aspects will be retained and incorporated into whatever the new version will look like, which, when I last checked, was not expected to be in final development for several years to come. Unless someone can convince the Comd RCAF to write off the 14,000 off pairs of one-piece suits recently procured and the 5-7k sets of two-piece CADPAT versions, there is no appetite to expedite the process.


ATLAS isn't supposed to replace the 1-piece suit.




Eye In The Sky said:


> I’d just like to thank to dumbass who decided LRP doesn’t need 2 piece, and would like them to be ordered on the next CARIBBE with a 1 piece and made to do every single flight. Remember your Pepto!
> 
> Then, go on SCC or something in the summer and work nothing but Ordnance for each flight.


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## kev994 (9 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> I’d just like to thank to dumbass who decided LRP doesn’t need 2 piece, and would like them to be ordered on  the next CARIBBE with a 1 piece and made to do every single flight.  Remember your Pepto!
> 
> Then, go on SCC or something in the summer and work nothing but Ordnance for each flight.
> 
> Of course it would be stupid to issue the CADPAT 2 piece to anyone other than TH…


The Coasties called the “indigestion” caused by that place “The Comalapa Ploppas”.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Nov 2022)

kev994 said:


> The Coasties called the “indigestion” caused by that place “The Comalapa Ploppas”.



We called it Op Shigella … we had a group msg app thing on the go on my last one in '19.  here's a few pics that went around...

 

* Walmart in San Salvador "pepto bismal" is *NOT* as effective as north american Walmart pepto bismal.  😆


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## kev994 (9 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> We called it Op Shigella … we had a group msg app thing on the go on my last one in '19.  here's a few pics that went around...
> 
> View attachment 74750 View attachment 74751
> 
> * Walmart in San Salvador "pepto bismal" is *NOT* as effective as north american Walmart pepto bismal. 😆


The plantains at the hotel are actually a pretty good substitute for pepto.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Nov 2022)

kev994 said:


> The plantains at the hotel are actually a pretty good substitute for pepto.



Just...don't drink the breakfast coffee!!  Our ATFC was convinced it was the coffee (water)...

I kinda miss that place now that I'm thinking about it.


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## kev994 (9 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Just...don't drink the breakfast coffee!!  Our ATFC was convinced it was the coffee (water)...
> 
> I kinda miss that place now that I'm thinking about it.


I think it’s the warm unpasteurized milk that they fill half the coffee cup with.


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## dimsum (9 Nov 2022)

kev994 said:


> I think it’s the warm unpasteurized milk that they fill half the coffee cup with.


...and that's why you drink black coffee.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Nov 2022)

Forgot to mention, had a SWO brief today and it was passed on that we will be changing out the current CAG (Canadian Average Green) and blue thread slip-OMS for DEU slip-ons in 2023.   Specifically for flight suits and jackets, I didn’t ask if it was also for all CADPAT stuff or just flying clothing.  

The CCWO EA was sporting new high-vis rank on their CADPAT back in the summer when CWO Hall was in town for a visit;  so there will be a change to CADPAT yet again.  This will be version 3 of slip-ons for op dress for me.   

YFR?  Sorry got none of that.   Money for misc and unimportant dress changes?   Step right up!


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## kev994 (9 Nov 2022)

Eye In The Sky said:


> Forgot to mention, had a SWO brief today and it was passed on that we will be changing out the current CAG (Canadian Average Green) and blue thread slip-OMS for DEU slip-ons in 2023.   Specifically for flight suits and jackets, I didn’t ask if it was also for all CADPAT stuff or just flying clothing.
> 
> The CCWO EA was sporting new high-vis rank on their CADPAT back in the summer when CWO Hall was in town for a visit;  so there will be a change to CADPAT yet again.  This will be version 3 of slip-ons for op dress for me.
> 
> YFR?  Sorry got none of that.   Money for misc and unimportant dress changes?   Step right up!


Lucrative time to be the tailor.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Nov 2022)

kev994 said:


> Lucrative time to be the tailor.



Or the provider of slip-ons.  I have 4 flight shirts, 2 jackets...

The other part mentioned, of course...wings, name tags and patches.  No word on that other than "you won't have to buy new ones _right away_".

My comment was the system should supply replacements if current ones are to be phased out.  I've got a big enough collection of "can't wear" stuff now.


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## dimsum (10 Nov 2022)

kev994 said:


> Lucrative time to be the tailor.


Or crappily sew them on yourself.  I won't say whether or not I do that...



Eye In The Sky said:


> Forgot to mention, had a SWO brief today and it was passed on that we will be changing out the current CAG (Canadian Average Green) and blue thread slip-OMS for DEU slip-ons in 2023.   Specifically for flight suits and jackets, I didn’t ask if it was also for all CADPAT stuff or just flying clothing.


Honestly, that makes sense.  If the CADPAT is going to the velcro, leaving the flight suit slip-on as an orphan line, get rid of it since it reduces the stocks that Stores needs to carry.   Or attach yet more velcro and put the CADPAT ranks on the shoulders.



Eye In The Sky said:


> The CCWO EA was sporting new high-vis rank on their CADPAT back in the summer when CWO Hall was in town for a visit;  so there will be a change to CADPAT yet again.  This will be version 3 of slip-ons for op dress for me.


Interesting.  It is a PITA trying to see ranks until they're about 3 feet in front of you, like this Terminal Lance comic.





Eye In The Sky said:


> YFR?  Sorry got none of that.   Money for misc and unimportant dress changes?   Step right up!


I think that this will actually _save_ money in the end.  RCAF is getting rid of an entire line of slip-ons that the current CADPAT doesn't use.  That also means reducing stocks at Clothing stores since DEU slip-ons are ordered from Logistik, and aircrew will (likely) not need CADPAT velcro rank unless for specific reasons.  

Trying a test run of a new colour on CADPAT doesn't take a lot of money or staff work.

Also, the "buckets of money" trope gets tossed around a lot, but RCAF CWO isn't dealing with YFR and those things.  On the flip side, I highly doubt that Comd RCAF is really involved in the colours of slip-ons.


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