# Jeffrey Epstein, found in his prison cell.



## Retired AF Guy (10 Aug 2019)

This will keep the conspiracy theorists busy!



> Jeffrey Epstein, accused sex trafficker, is dead by apparent suicide, found in his Manhattan jail cell
> 
> Aug. 10, 2019, 9:19 AM EDT / Updated Aug. 10, 2019, 11:36 AM EDT
> By Tom Winter, Jonathan Dienst and Phil McCausland
> ...



 NBC News


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Aug 2019)

Clintonized


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

Someone always has a camera,
https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/photos-show-jeffrey-epstein-as-hes-wheeled-into-downtown-hospital/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true#content-wrapper


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## dimsum (10 Aug 2019)

I can't wait to see Reddit blow up over this.  The political subs are going to be busy today.


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## OldSolduer (10 Aug 2019)

Conspiracy theorists are going to go nuts.
Time to buy shares in Alcan.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Clintonized





			
				Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> Conspiracy theorists are going to go nuts.
> Time to buy shares in Alcan.



3,2,1,



> Trump aide Patton floats baseless conspiracy theory in Epstein suicide: ‘Hillary’d’
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-patton-pushes-conspiracy-theory-epstein-suicide-20190810-qrokjw3k3jgu7lzypnpaqtxdky-story.html


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## SeaKingTacco (10 Aug 2019)

This development is pretty darned convenient for alot of people.

How, exactly, does a guy, in prison, on suicide watch (presumably under 24hr surveillance) manage to hang himself?


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> How, exactly, does a guy, in prison, on suicide watch (presumably under 24hr surveillance) manage to hang himself?





> Epstein wasn't on suicide watch at time of his death: reports
> https://thehill.com/homenews/news/456960-epstein-wasnt-on-suicide-watch-at-time-of-his-death-reports


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## OldSolduer (10 Aug 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> This development is pretty darned convenient for alot of people.
> 
> How, exactly, does a guy, in prison, on suicide watch (presumably under 24hr surveillance) manage to hang himself?



We have guys on watch all the time. The psych people speak with them and most are off watch after a week or so. They are not on a permanent watch.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> We have guys on watch all the time. The psych people speak with them and most are off watch after a week or so. They are not on a permanent watch.



Even then, no guarantees. Ashley Smith killed herself while under suicide watch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Smith_inquest

Her family brought a lawsuit against Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) for negligence. They settled out of court for $11 million.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ashley-smith-family-settles-11m-suit-1.1003660



> Jack Donson, a former longtime federal Bureau of Prisons case manager, told NBC News that suicide watch in federal lockup "usually only lasts a few days to week" due to the amount of manpower the 24-hour surveillance entails.
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prison-experts-are-stunned-angry-jeffrey-epstein-was-taken-suicide-n1041121
> "It requires staff to do overtime shifts," Donson said, and is "not considered a good use of resources."
> 
> ...


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## expwor (10 Aug 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> This development is pretty darned convenient for alot of people.
> 
> How, exactly, does a guy, in prison, on suicide watch (presumably under 24hr surveillance) manage to hang himself?



Being on suicide watch doesn't necessarily mean someone is watching him, and only him 24/7. It means the correctional officer would likely check his cell every 15 minutes (normally a correctional officer does his/her wind/count every hour)  But placing an offender under suicide watch would be in addition to all other duties/responsibilities the officer has on his/her shift.  He/she still needs to check on other inmates 
How often a cell is checked is usually determined by psychologists etc who dealt with the offender. 
BTW this is based on my experience working for the Correctional Service of Canada for 29 years, including a few years as a Correctional Officer

Tom


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Aug 2019)

And 'constant watch' [one CO to one offender} is freakin' costly.   I did figure with such a high-profile inmate, with lots of people who'd want him gone, he'd be on it.  At the minimum in baby dolls and security blankets. I know where he'd be stashed away here in Ontario, and between the cameras and the Officer sitting in the diamond right outside his window door, very little chance this could have happened.


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Aug 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> How, exactly, does a guy, in prison, on suicide watch (presumably under 24hr surveillance) manage to hang himself?



Because there is a God?


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## Retired AF Guy (10 Aug 2019)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> And 'constant watch' [one CO to one offender} is freakin' costly.   I did figure with such a high-profile inmate, with lots of people who'd want him gone, he'd be on it.  At the minimum in baby dolls and security blankets. I know where he'd be stashed away here in Ontario, and between the cameras and the Officer sitting in the diamond right outside his window door, very little chance this could have happened.



Especially when you consider that back in mid-July he was found in his cell, injured. Whether suicide attempt, attack or self-inflicted no one knows or at least not talking.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Because there is a God?



Something tells me the paramedics who had to work him up weren't too enthusiastic about it.

I expect there will be civil lawsuits against his estate in the weeks ahead.



> NBC
> 
> Trump retweets Epstein conspiracy theory, claiming Clinton connection
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-retweets-epstein-conspiracy-theory-claiming-clinton-connection-n1041146?cid=public-rss_20190810


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## Navy_Pete (10 Aug 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> This development is pretty darned convenient for alot of people.



Not going to lie, got a little tin foil hat myself when I heard this. He was moving in the kind of circles doing super sketchy things where there are billionaires implicated. Don't care about him, but hopefully they keep digging and get some of the others.

Don't seriously think someone had him killed, but definitely hampers any investigation.  Big difference between a rumour and having him testify in court against them.

Weird for Trump to start tweeting conspiracy theories when he's just as smeared by this as anyone else. I'm sure there is all kinds of things already going about him having him killed.


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## AbdullahD (10 Aug 2019)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Not going to lie, got a little tin foil hat myself when I heard this. He was moving in the kind of circles doing super sketchy things where there are billionaires implicated. Don't care about him, but hopefully they keep digging and get some of the others.
> 
> Don't seriously think someone had him killed, but definitely hampers any investigation.  Big difference between a rumour and having him testify in court against them.
> 
> Weird for Trump to start tweeting conspiracy theories when he's just as smeared by this as anyone else. I'm sure there is all kinds of things already going about him having him killed.



Rich, powerful, corrupt and sketchy.. maybe he just weighed his odds and decided suicide was best. Chose his way out, on his terms at his time.

I could see a lot of headache and heartaches for those he loved or who loved him and in order to minimize that he killed himself? Lived the high life to long, hurting to many people and now that reality set in and he was looking at a crappy end of his life.. he ended it sooner. Possibly to reduce risk from corrupt billionaires too.. if you are a tin foil guy... I'm more in favor he was just mentally unstable.

Abdullah


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## tomahawk6 (10 Aug 2019)

Epstein's death has set off an investigation.His cell had no cctv according to initial reports. Civil lawsuits will continue against his estate. An attorney who has been involved with similar deaths in custody that it should be treated as a homicide until evidence conclusively points to suicide. I guess that's a wise precaution. Just wait for the FBI report as he died in Federal custody.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Big difference between a rumour and having him testify in court against them.



Assuming he did kill himself, talk about a good friend.  

"Don't worry about anything, Frankie Five Angels."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64-PGJpKQZg


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## Navy_Pete (10 Aug 2019)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Rich, powerful, corrupt and sketchy.. maybe he just weighed his odds and decided suicide was best. Chose his way out, on his terms at his time.
> 
> I could see a lot of headache and heartaches for those he loved or who loved him and in order to minimize that he killed himself? Lived the high life to long, hurting to many people and now that reality set in and he was looking at a crappy end of his life.. he ended it sooner. Possibly to reduce risk from corrupt billionaires too.. if you are a tin foil guy... I'm more in favor he was just mentally unstable.
> 
> Abdullah



No, I assume that he looked at a life in prison as a child molester and did it himself. Robs his victims of justice, but hopefully with the FBI investigation the freeze his assets so they don't get dispersed before they can sue his estate.

There is a whole cult of 9/11 theorists that think that was some kind of inside job with an unbelievably elaborate scenario, so offing someone in jail to cover pedo billionaires is a pretty obvious one for them to run with. Also not outside the realm of possibility as stranger things have happened, but seems more complicated then him being a coward.


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## Remius (10 Aug 2019)

Agreed.

He’s spent what? A few months in jail up to that point.

Maybe he didn’t like what he was going through and what potentially was waiting for him for the rest of his life, saw the writing on the wall and offed himself.  

It’s a hard fall going from Billionaire to hard time for life, a target in prison with zero chance of getting out.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2019)

He was 66. Only a presidential pardon could have saved him from dying in a federal prison.


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Aug 2019)

I would just like to point out that I know nothing about the Clintons..............


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## AbdullahD (10 Aug 2019)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I would just like to point out that I know nothing about the Clintons..............



Uh huh....

*makes a phone call* 
"We have another one" 
*hangs up*

^^


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## Retired AF Guy (11 Aug 2019)

Interesting article on how suicides in US prisons is not that unusual.



> The Completely Predictable Death of Jeffrey Epstein
> 
> If you are shocked by a jail suicide you aren’t paying attention to the grim conditions of incarceration in America.
> 
> ...



 Link. Original article includes links.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Aug 2019)

He can suck my a$$......


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## Blackadder1916 (11 Aug 2019)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> He can suck my a$$......



While Epstein allegedly had some sexual perversions, that particular fetish has not been reported as being within his repertoire.


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## OldSolduer (11 Aug 2019)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Interesting article on how suicides in US prisons is not that unusual.
> 
> Link. Original article includes links.



And not unusual in our federal system either.

We’ve had one completed suicide in our Manitoba provincial system since 2010. 

It all depends on how seriously you take the person at risk and how well you do your job.


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## brihard (12 Aug 2019)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> He can suck my a$$......



That will be considerably harder for him to do now.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Aug 2019)

I'm thinking I should have much more specific... :facepalm:


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## Journeyman (12 Aug 2019)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I'm thinking I should have much more specific... :facepalm:


No, the imagery from that simple statement is more than enough, thanks.   :boke:


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Aug 2019)

:sarcasm: I don't care who you are. Nobody has 56 friends that commit suicide :sarcasm:


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## daftandbarmy (12 Aug 2019)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> It all depends on how seriously you take the person at risk and how well you do your job.



This.


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## Remius (12 Aug 2019)

The conspiracy nuts on left thinks it’s Trump.  the conspiracy nuts on the right think it’s Clinton.  

My money is on Candyman. 


It might not be that far fetched that Epstein himself paid off an overworked underpaid Guard to turn a blind eye so he could make his exit.


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2019)

Some people love their conspiracy theories,



> In Epstein Tweets, Trump Revisits a Favored Conspiracy Genre: Murder
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/us/politics/trump-epstein-conspiracy-theories.html
> President Trump has long used his fame and platform to amplify conspiracy theories and undermine his political enemies by muddying the waters when it comes to facts.



Probably the most infamous jail house suicide since Hermann Göring. 

Not all that uncommon among high profile inmates,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prison_deaths


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## OldSolduer (12 Aug 2019)

I'm not going to yammer and pontificate much more on this subject. 

We, at least in our institution, take all talk of suicide seriously. Some of our guests joke about it and we know that, but they are still assessed  to ascertain that they are not suicidal.
I'm an ASIST instructor and I tell everyone to take all suicide talk seriously. We have to. 

Would an Epstein completed suicide in any jail? Possibly yes. As for him being taken off suicide watch, few inmates are on suicide watch for longer than a week. Generally the suicidal thoughts go away and they are downgraded, moved back to his or her cell and supervised like other inmates.

We did have one inmate on suicide watch for months on end. His crime was particularly heinous, but despite how we felt personally about him we ensured he stayed alive. He was one of the few who needed one on one suicide watch because he would have attempted if he was in a camera cell.


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## mariomike (12 Aug 2019)

I'm no prevention expert. But, one observation I came to many years ago was if someone was determined to kill themselves, they would.


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## expwor (13 Aug 2019)

Remius said:
			
		

> The conspiracy nuts on left thinks it’s Trump.  the conspiracy nuts on the right think it’s Clinton.
> 
> My money is on Candyman.
> 
> ...



I bet he didn't even have to do that.  Just say the "right" things to prison staff (Correctional Officers, Psychologists etc) to make them believe he isn't suicidal, and they take him off suicide watch. And to those surprised he was off suicide watch I'd be surprised after a few weeks behind bars he'd still be on it.  In my experience in corrections it's been a short term "solution" if you will, to prevent suicides.  And it's more than just physical security monitoring (cameras, checking cell etc), it involves psychologists/psychiatrists counselling the offender.  Usually three to four days has been the maximum I've seen inmates on suicide watch in my experience

As for those having these conspiracy theories, here's one.  Epstein was a 66 year old high profile pedophile facing 45 years (I believe that would have been his sentence) behind bars, doing hard time.  He would have been released when he turned 111 years old, meaning in reality he'd die behind bars.  Epstein did the math and decided why wait to die behind bars, he'll do it now by his own hands.  Really no surprise at all

My two cents

Tom


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## mariomike (13 Aug 2019)

> 13 Aug., 2109
> NY Post
> Why was Jeffrey Epstein’s death on 4chan before it became public?
> https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/why-was-jeffrey-epsteins-death-on-4chan-before-it-became-public/


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## VinceW (13 Aug 2019)

Most don’t like the truth just like the Kennedy assasination


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## Retired AF Guy (13 Aug 2019)

Breaking news!! Epstein's killer has been identified! Picture follows:


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## brihard (13 Aug 2019)

expwor said:
			
		

> I bet he didn't even have to do that.  Just say the "right" things to prison staff (Correctional Officers, Psychologists etc) to make them believe he isn't suicidal, and they take him off suicide watch. And to those surprised he was off suicide watch I'd be surprised after a few weeks behind bars he'd still be on it.  In my experience in corrections it's been a short term "solution" if you will, to prevent suicides.  And it's more than just physical security monitoring (cameras, checking cell etc), it involves psychologists/psychiatrists counselling the offender.  Usually three to four days has been the maximum I've seen inmates on suicide watch in my experience
> 
> As for those having these conspiracy theories, here's one.  Epstein was a 66 year old high profile pedophile facing 45 years (I believe that would have been his sentence) behind bars, doing hard time.  He would have been released when he turned 111 years old, meaning in reality he'd die behind bars.  Epstein did the math and decided why wait to die behind bars, he'll do it now by his own hands.  Really no surprise at all
> 
> ...



Yup. Doing time behind real security as a rich guy who's also a skinner? That's about as bad a go as it gets. I have no difficulty believing he killed himself. He probably knew they had him dead to rights and that it would only get worse once search warrants were executed.


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## Retired AF Guy (13 Aug 2019)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Yup. Doing time behind real security as a rich guy who's also a skinner? That's about as bad a go as it gets. I have no difficulty believing he killed himself. He probably knew they had him dead to rights and that it would only get worse once search warrants were executed.



IIRC he wouldn't be going to trial until next June at the earliest; so a whole year stuck in a cell that's probably not much bigger a medium sized washroom. And as Brihard says, in the prison system, child abusers are the lowest of the low.


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## daftandbarmy (13 Aug 2019)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> IIRC he wouldn't be going to trial until next June at the earliest; so a whole year stuck in a cell that's probably not much bigger a medium sized washroom. And as Brihard says, in the prison system, child abusers are the lowest of the low.



Unless you are former PC Michael Bunting, of course: 

Michael Bunting endured every cop's worst nightmare... being banged up in jail with criminals

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-bunting-endured-every-cops-342131


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## mariomike (14 Aug 2019)

> Epstein guards suspected of falsifying logs to show they were checking on him: report
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/jeffrey-epstein-s-jail-guards-suspected-of-falsifying-logs-ap-source-1.4549020


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## expwor (14 Aug 2019)

Not saying not true, since I've never worked in that facility, but when I was in (as a Correctional Officer, not a con) when you did your range walk there was a punch at the end of the range which verified you went down range and back and how long your range walk took. There was also a log book but not just a log book
Surprising they would have a logbook only

Tom


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Aug 2019)

Maybe the place was slack right to the top and didn't bother checking "punches"....until caca hit the fan of course.


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## mariomike (14 Aug 2019)

expwor said:
			
		

> there was a punch at the end of the range





			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Maybe the place was slack right to the top and didn't bother checking "punches"....until caca hit the fan of course.



In case anyone is unfamiliar with them,


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## Brad Sallows (14 Aug 2019)

What amuses me is the speed with which both the "conspiracy" and "nothing to see here" crowds leapt to their respective positions.  Very few people inhabit the "let's wait for the investigation to conclude, shall we?" region any more.


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## expwor (14 Aug 2019)

The ones we had at Millhaven when I was a young fish screw LOL were on the range wall. You walked to the end of the range and pressed the switch.
But I am familiar (although never used one myself) with the type you showed.
OMG that was a lifetime ago...I still had hair on my head

Tom


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## Brad Sallows (14 Aug 2019)

On Instapundit:

"Seen on Facebook: “While the medical examiner was on lunch break today, Epstein cremated himself.”"


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## OldSolduer (14 Aug 2019)

mariomike said:
			
		

> In case anyone is unfamiliar with them,



The old punch clocks have been replaced by an electronic type. 

They are a step above the old clocks. 

Besides, there are other ways to determine if rounds were or were not done.


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## mariomike (14 Aug 2019)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> What amuses me is the speed with which both the "conspiracy" and "nothing to see here" crowds leapt to their respective positions.



Nothing new about conspiracy theories,



> Jeffrey Epstein and 22 other Trump-fueled conspiracy theories
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/12/bizarre-conspiracy-theories-trump-has-elevated/





			
				Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> The old punch clocks have been replaced by an electronic type.



When they used to send us into the Don on calls, their night shift carried the type in the pic. Nice to know they have gone high-tech.

Regarding the guards,
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=641&tbs=qdr%3Ad&ei=QF1UXdOYGISDtQa81qC4Dg&q=epstein+guards&oq=epstein+guards&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0..28989...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.x9OaLi_nLxk&ved=0ahUKEwjTuJ_fiIPkAhWEQc0KHTwrCOcQ4dUDCAo


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## Kat Stevens (14 Aug 2019)

I was very saddened to hear that Epstein's guard was tragically killed in an auto accident next Thursday.


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## OldSolduer (14 Aug 2019)

Target Up said:
			
		

> I was very saddened to hear that Epstein's guard was tragically killed in an auto accident next Thursday.



Well played sir


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## Haggis (14 Aug 2019)

Target Up said:
			
		

> I was very saddened to hear that Epstein's guard was tragically killed in an auto accident next Thursday.



I'll bet the guard calls in sick next Thursday now.


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## mariomike (14 Aug 2019)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> Besides, there are other ways to determine if rounds were or were not done.



Like cameras?



> Global News
> 
> Surveillance video reviewed after the death showed guards never made some of the checks noted in the log
> https://globalnews.ca/news/5762859/jeffrey-epstein-jail-logs-checks/



Sleeping on the job is hardly a conspiracy. I wasn't a guard, but I slept on the job.


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## OldSolduer (15 Aug 2019)

Oops nyuk nyuk nyuk Why I otta....


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## daftandbarmy (15 Aug 2019)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Like cameras?
> 
> Sleeping on the job is hardly a conspiracy. I wasn't a guard, but I slept on the job.



If I was in charge of a jail, I'd ask the inmates how well the guards were doing their jobs.

Oh, wait, I think I'm channelling the plot for 'Brubaker'


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## OldSolduer (15 Aug 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> If I was in charge of a jail, I'd ask the inmates how well the guards were doing their jobs.



That’s what they do in the Federal system 😉


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## Spencer100 (15 Aug 2019)

I had a laugh about a FB meme going around.....

"When the medical examiner was on lunch break, Epstein cremated himself."


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## expwor (16 Aug 2019)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/medical-examiner-epstein-death-suicide-hanging-ruling-1.5250432

Of course conspiracy theorists will say the coroner was paid off to cover up the "truth" of Epstein's death.  But really nothing to see here, just a POS who's gone

Tom


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## mariomike (16 Aug 2019)

expwor said:
			
		

> Of course conspiracy theorists will say the coroner was paid off to cover up the "truth" of Epstein's death.



Of course you are right.



> FBI agents are livid that Trump is amplifying 'bulls--- theories' about Jeffrey Epstein's death 'that have no basis in reality'
> https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/fbi-agents-are-livid-that-trump-is-amplifying-bulls-theories-about-jeffrey-epsteins-death-that-have-no-basis-in-reality/ar-AAFHNrs
> FBI personnel are furious that  President Donald Trump retweeted to his 63 million Twitter followers a baseless conspiracy theory suggesting that former President Bill Clinton was involved in the death of the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.


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## Blackadder1916 (19 Aug 2019)

The scandal surrounding Epstein continues to spread, now across the pond.  To be flip, how randy was Andy?

In typical London tabloid sensationalist fashion, the Daily Mail's latest is:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7367511/Prince-Andrew-pictured-inside-paedophile-Jeffrey-Epsteins-63million-mansion-depravity.html


> EXCLUSIVE: Prince Andrew is pictured inside paedophile Jeffrey Epstein's £63million mansion of depravity nine years ago... so how did he miss signs of the billionaire's sexual deviance?


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## tomahawk6 (19 Aug 2019)

I suspect that we may never know the truth unless video  of the area outside the cell turns up. The FBI has taken evidence from his place in NYC and  his island. It was speculated that he had video evidence of his guests . If it is true then the story will get fleshed out. It is known that Clinton was a guest 27 times or so. Passenger logs would determine any other guests.


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## mariomike (19 Aug 2019)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I suspect that we may never know the truth unless video  of the area outside the cell turns up.



There is video. Reply #56,
https://army.ca/forums/threads/130952/post-1580327.html#msg1580327

See also,

Epstein video,
https://www.google.com/search?q=epstein+guards+video&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gws_rd=ssl#spf=1566232808947


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## tomahawk6 (19 Aug 2019)

CCTV in a jail should be required to monitor the guards primarily and the inmates.


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## OldSolduer (19 Aug 2019)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> CCTV in a jail should be required to monitor the guards primarily and the inmates.



We have extensive CCTV and it is difficult to have every inch under camera.


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## tomahawk6 (19 Aug 2019)

Prior to his death he signed a will transferring his assets to a trust and his brother is the sole beneficiary. I dont see how any of his accusers will see a dime as his fortune is protected by the trust. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-will-days-before-suicide-report


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## NavyShooter (20 Aug 2019)

Seen today...


Not really a conspiracy guy...but...it seems kinda convenient...


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## mariomike (23 Nov 2019)

Regarding security,


> The entire night, from 10:30 p.m. to 6:30 a.m., security cameras showed that nobody entered the wing where Mr. Epstein had been left alone in his cell, the indictment said.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/19/nyregion/epstein-prison-guards-arrested.html


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## FJAG (23 Nov 2019)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Prior to his death he signed a will transferring his assets to a trust and his brother is the sole beneficiary. I dont see how any of his accusers will see a dime as his fortune is protected by the trust.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-will-days-before-suicide-report



"Fraudulent Conveyance" is a long-standing principle of the common law which also applies in the United States.



> A fraudulent conveyance, or fraudulent transfer, is an attempt to avoid debt by transferring money to another person or company. It is generally a civil, not a criminal matter, meaning that one cannot go to jail for it, but in some jurisdictions there is potential for criminal prosecution.[1] It is generally treated as a civil cause of action that arises in debtor/creditor relations, particularly with reference to insolvent debtors



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance

It just makes matters more complicated but will, in the long run, not be an obstacle to creditors, including judgment creditors. The bigger issue is who will be all the creditor claimants over and above these young women.

 :cheers:


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## mariomike (23 Nov 2019)

FJAG said:
			
		

> "Fraudulent Conveyance" is a long-standing principle of the common law which also applies in the United States.



We saw that here in Canada with a serial killer.


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## OldSolduer (23 Nov 2019)

I’ve heard to two COs on duty at the time were arrested and charged. Good.
I also think whatever department in charge of that jail needs to be investigated.


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## tomahawk6 (23 Nov 2019)

The Bureau of Prisons ran that facility.Both guards turned down plea deals subsequent to their arrest. AG Barr didn't see anything untoward but I hope experts look at the video to see if there were gaps or maybe if the tape was stopped and then started. Both guards were asleep for maybe up to 8 hours. Their supervisor must also have been asleep. I don't doubt that Epstein was killed. The only good to come of this was Randy Andy was finally outed.


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## mariomike (23 Nov 2019)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I don't doubt that Epstein was killed.





> Medical examiner rules Epstein death a suicide by hanging
> https://apnews.com/a947e0d85d31496eb5bd9ff4994c9718
> NEW YORK (AP) — New York City’s medical examiner ruled Jeffrey Epstein’s death a suicide Friday, confirming after nearly a week of speculation that the financier faced with sex trafficking charges hanged himself in his jail cell.


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## tomahawk6 (24 Nov 2019)

Renown pathologist Dr Baden says murder.He disputes the hanging theory as  impractical. 

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/famed-forensic-pathologist-evidence-points-homicide-rather-suicide-epstein-case


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## mariomike (24 Nov 2019)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Renown pathologist Dr Baden says murder.



Dr. Baden was hired by the late Mr. Epstein's brother.

He discussed Epstein on the "FOX and Friend's" show, where is a contributor, 
https://www.foxnews.com/us/forensic-pathologist-jeffrey-epstein-homicide-suicide



> The New York Times
> 
> The findings by Dr. Baden were strongly disputed by the city’s chief medical examiner, ...
> 
> ...





> NBC
> 
> 2014
> 
> ...



"Why You Might Not Want to Believe Michael Baden, Celebrity Pathologist, on Epstein’s Death"
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/why-to-be-skeptical-of-michael-baden-on-epsteins-death.html



> Feds Fight Back as Epstein Death Conspiracy Theories Swirl
> The Associated Press
> Nov. 23, 2019
> https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11/23/business/bc-us-jeffrey-epstein-conspiracy-theories.html
> ...


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## SeaKingTacco (24 Nov 2019)

I think the more likely possibility than Mr Epstein having been murdered is that he was "encouraged" to commit suicide and then given the room to do so.

If even half of what is alleged against him was true, he made some very, very powerful enemies. I doubt that he would have lasted a week in a general prison population.


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## mariomike (24 Nov 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> I think the more likely possibility than Mr Epstein having been murdered is that he was "encouraged" to commit suicide



Like the encouragement given to Frankie Five Angels?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CWCTExyfQs



			
				SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> and then given the room to do so.



I guess the question for investigators is, was the lack of patrols by the guards on that unit, that night, typical for other nights? 



			
				SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> I doubt that he would have lasted a week in a general prison population.



I doubt he would be serving his time in "gen pop".


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## OldSolduer (24 Nov 2019)

He would never be housed in GP. Such a high profile case and handled so poorly. 🤦‍♂️


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## FJAG (24 Nov 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> I think the more likely possibility than Mr Epstein having been murdered is that he was "encouraged" to commit suicide and then given the room to do so.
> ...



More likely is that he was feeling his world of supreme entitlement and debauchery tumbling down around his ears. People with a lot less trouble then him have committed suicide.

When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras.

 :cheers:


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## mariomike (24 Nov 2019)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I also think whatever department in charge of that jail needs to be investigated.



Looks like they are,



> Hawk Sawyer, ( the new acting head of the Bureau of Prisons ) testified in Congress on Tuesday that the Bureau of Prisons has identified a number of other instances where guards skipped inmate checks and referred those cases to the Justice Department inspector general.
> 
> "We are zealously going about trying to determine which of our employees are good employees and who do their job, and that is the vast majority of prison staff, but we do have some I know out there who obviously choose not to follow policy, choose not to do their job, and we want them gone," she said.
> https://www.abc-7.com/story/41351392/attorneys-for-jeffrey-epsteins-prison-guards-point-the-blame-at-the-system


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## Shrek1985 (25 Nov 2019)

I think just the fact of how E. was handled as a prisoner points directly to a cover-up.

Was he murdered? I think if he was; we will never, ever be allowed to know. Just picture that as the result of an official investigation; "Yeah, this guy with dirt on the Clintons and tons of others was totally murdered in US Federal Custody." The press would have the choice of going to war with some of their biggest backers or revealing themselves as integral to covering these crimes up over the past number of decades.

The very idea of an official coroner's report coming to that finding is like a government townhall; the issue was decided. But we needed to be able to say that we looked into it and consulted with the people the decision would affect.

There was never going to be an official ruling of murder, no matter what. 

Did he kill himself? If he did; he was explicitly allowed to do so in order to effect the cover-up.


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## mariomike (25 Nov 2019)

Lots of internet conspiracy theories,



> Associated Press
> November 23, 2019
> 
> NEW YORK (AP) — At another time in history, the indictment of two jail guards responsible for monitoring Jeffrey Epstein the night he killed himself might have served as an emphatic rebuttal to suspicions that the wealthy sex offender was actually murdered.
> ...


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