# Canadian/UK/Australian Militarys...Experience??



## MedTechStudent (30 Oct 2007)

I'm not totally sure if this topic will be allowed because it might just open up the floor to argument or country bashing.  If that's the case then delete it please by all means.  My question is to all the people who have served with the CF for extended periods.  

My mother is from the UK, my father is from Australia so I have duel citizenship in those places, and for a while was considering moving and joining the military in those countries.  Is there anyone here who has fought in or with other countries forces that can tell me pros and con's of them from a first hand account?  It's a little hard to find a tri-military comparison on "google"  I suppose in general I'm just curious if here in Canada our military system is the better of the three and if I made the right choice to stay?

Thank you for your input.


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## DirtyDog (30 Oct 2007)

I thought you already applied to the CF?  

Isn't it kind of late for second thoughts?


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## Neill McKay (30 Oct 2007)

Probably not of much help to you, but I gather there are a fair number of Canadians serving in the RAN (and perhaps other Australian services).  I believe Australia has been known to recruit actively in Canada.


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## medaid (30 Oct 2007)

I echo DD's question, however, Wesley who had commented on your styre thread is a member of the RAA and Dafandbarmy wa with the RM.


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## 1feral1 (30 Oct 2007)

If you have any questions Kyle, PM me.


Wes


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## MedTechStudent (30 Oct 2007)

Yes granted there is not much of anything I can do about it now , nor do I want to I'm very happy with my choice.  I was just curious of any major differences in the countries military system.

Thanks, Kyle


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## geo (30 Oct 2007)

major differences?
One pays in GB Pounds
One pays in Aussie Dollars
One pays in Cdn Dollars

Salary for the British military lags behind the other two
A couple of years ago, Canada & Australia were running pert much neck to neck WRT pay levels. & whoul has best paid troops in the world


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## Korporaal (30 Oct 2007)

Like the Canadian military, I would imagine the Australian Army would have similar traditions, culture and training to the British, as we were all at one time a colony.
I was in the SADF (South African Defence Force) in the early 80`s and even though SA (an ex colony) had pulled out of the commonwealth we still retained a lot of the British military traditions/training, albeit with changes, taking into account the fact that we were fighting  a COIN war in S.W.A. (now Namibia to you young `uns ).

I would have no problem serving in any of the three countries you mentioned. 

The French Army...ahhh well thats another story.LOL


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## the 48th regulator (30 Oct 2007)

Let's keep this to the supposed purpose of the thread there MedTechStudent.

I have removed the last couple of posts, to salvage the integrity of it.

dileas

tess

*Milnet.ca
Staff*


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## 1feral1 (30 Oct 2007)

Korporaal said:
			
		

> SA (an ex colony) had pulled out of the commonwealth we still retained a lot of the British military traditions/training,



Thought SA was booted for Apartied ways??

 ;D

Cheers,

Wes


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## chrisf (30 Oct 2007)

Just as a heads up, the New Zealand military actively hires Canadians... might be of interest.


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## DirtyDog (30 Oct 2007)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Just as a heads up, the New Zealand military actively hires Canadians... might be of interest.


*If* and *when* I feel like a change someday, that sounds interesting.

Prior to joining the CF I was actively trying to get a US greencard as I have some friends and family in the USMC.  I also filled out some prelim paperwork for the Brit Army and the FFL.  At the time I had very little knowledge of the CF and honestly thought of it a little less glamourously.  The idea of of living in Pet certainly didn't seem to exotic to me (still do kinda I guess  ;D), and in the earlier years I was considering joining, the CF didn't have the renewed vigour and recognition that I think it now has.

I really feel the Cf was the right decision however and don't regret it one bit.


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## MedTechStudent (31 Oct 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> At the time I had very little knowledge of the CF and honestly thought of it a little less glamorously.



Lol I think that's really common actually I used to think the same, also because when I first told people it was an intrest my most common response was "The Canadian Military sucks don't it?"  Which of course is false, I just think that people (not you DD just folks in general) put the US military above others because of its years of spotlight and fame through movies, TV, and so on.  Not to mention that huge amount of money the US spends on its military.  Also, because I really don't know, all in all, DOES the US have and outstanding Military? ???.  I think Canada is as good, as well from what I've heard our military takes pride in impeccable TRAINING of our members.  So I suppose its like..."We're not as big, but we're really good at being smaller" 

Anyways, ya that's that's just my impression from what I've heard from some CF members.


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## daftandbarmy (31 Oct 2007)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> I'm not totally sure if this topic will be allowed because it might just open up the floor to argument or country bashing.  If that's the case then delete it please by all means.  My question is to all the people who have served with the CF for extended periods.
> 
> My mother is from the UK, my father is from Australia so I have duel citizenship in those places, and for a while was considering moving and joining the military in those countries.  Is there anyone here who has fought in or with other countries forces that can tell me pros and con's of them from a first hand account?  It's a little hard to find a tri-military comparison on "google"  I suppose in general I'm just curious if here in Canada our military system is the better of the three and if I made the right choice to stay?
> 
> Thank you for your input.



25 years ago I'd say give it a go (hell, I did). But with all the action and interesting opportunities, plus excellent benefits and high quality people  in today's CF (the many fine people on this forum are good examples!), I'd say that the odds are stacked heavily in favour of staying in Canada's military. 

Regardless, some questions you want to ask yourself before you decide to make the leap - to the British Army anyways:

1) Are you prepared to support the foreign policy of another country, even if it is diametrically opposed to Canada's?
2) Are you prepared to be treated differently? No matter what you do, you WILL be singled out and be severely 'razzed'. You may experience downright discrimination (not my experience, but it's possible). You will need a thick skin regardless. You will always be under pressure to do better than the others.
3) Are you prepared to be away from home for months, or years in some cases, while your mates get to go home regularly to see mummy and daddy? Could you handle up to 9 - 10 months away from your unit's home base per year?
4) Can you handle the possibility of encountering much different, and apparently ruthless and 'constitutionally unfair', physical or other selection processes which you may fail, with little or no chance of appeal?
5) Pay and benefits may be much different than you can expect in Canada. British troops get paid much less for example. Are you prepared for less pay, worse living conditions and potentially marginal benefits?
6) If you are killed or wounded (it happens, but not to me, right?), are you prepared to take the risk and put your family through the extra hassle?
7) Can you handle less attractive women, warm beer, cold showers, bad coffee, shabby quarters, awful dentists and endless cups of tea (oh, the horror)

On balance, unless you're planning on making a fortune from the book you write about your experiences, I'd hang here. The modern CF rocks, dude.

PM me if you'd like for any further discouragement or insipid, pre-publication, self-promoting war stories.

D&B
Para Regt (seconded to 3 Cdo Bde for 2 years)
Still tabbing after all these years ;D


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## MedTechStudent (31 Oct 2007)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> The modern CF rocks, dude.



Lol that just made me smile ;D, all this awesome input then to cap it off..."CF Rocks"

Thank you very much for your advice/information

Cheers, Kyle

PS, #7, as much as it made me drop to the floor laughing....I visited last year, the woman ARE improving


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## Korporaal (31 Oct 2007)

Thought SA was booted for Apartied ways??

No...SA pulled out in 64 when it became a Republic.


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## 1feral1 (31 Oct 2007)

Korporaal said:
			
		

> Thought SA was booted for Apartied ways??
> 
> No...SA pulled out in 64 when it became a Republic.



From www.abc.net.au/tv/btn/stories/s1579273.htm

.....but being in the Commonwealth means you have to follow certain rules. And you can get kicked out if you don't! That happened to South Africa in 1961, because of the racist apartheid laws that denied human and political rights to people who weren't white skinned. South Africa rejoined the Commonwealth in 1994 after the first democratic elections were held and the racist laws were changed. And more recently, Zimbabwe was kicked out, after the rest of the Commonwealth didn't agree with the way the Zimbabwean elections were held.

----------------------------------

I guess there is two sides to every story, but this is how it was told outside SA.


Cheers,

Wes


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## chrisf (31 Oct 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> *If* and *when* I feel like a change someday, that sounds interesting.



I contacted them a while back about being joining their territorial (reserve) army (I've got a bit of a pipe dream in my head about going to New Zealand... long story)... the impression I got from their recruiting website is they actively recruit Americans/Canadians/ Brits, though the form reply I got said I had to be at least a permanent resident in New Zealand (Though again, I was looking towards the the territorial, not regular army).

If nothing else, not nearly as much snow to shovel in kiwi-land....


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## DirtyDog (31 Oct 2007)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I contacted them a while back about being joining their territorial (reserve) army (I've got a bit of a pipe dream in my head about going to New Zealand... long story)... the impression I got from their recruiting website is they actively recruit Americans/Canadians/ Brits, though the form reply I got said I had to be at least a permanent resident in New Zealand (Though again, I was looking towards the the territorial, not regular army).
> 
> If nothing else, not nearly as much snow to shovel in kiwi-land....


From what I've heard, immigrating to New Zealand is no small feat.  They are quite selective.


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## Korporaal (31 Oct 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> From www.abc.net.au/tv/btn/stories/s1579273.htm
> 
> .....but being in the Commonwealth means you have to follow certain rules. And you can get kicked out if you don't! That happened to South Africa in 1961, because of the racist apartheid laws that denied human and political rights to people who weren't white skinned. South Africa rejoined the Commonwealth in 1994 after the first democratic elections were held and the racist laws were changed. And more recently, Zimbabwe was kicked out, after the rest of the Commonwealth didn't agree with the way the Zimbabwean elections were held.
> 
> ...





So let me see...your source of information is an Australian journalist, who probably like the majority of people who critized SA have never even visited the country and feel that because they watched a Discovery Channel article on SA they are emminently qualified to be taken seriously.
I can therefore assume using this same standard of journalistic knowledge/honesty , that the CBC`s recent report of the Afghan people wanting foreign troops out of the country is true.
If you are interested their is a news clip showing the SA`n foreign ministers speech announcing SA`s withdrawl. 

SA`s policies were attacked, but SA voluntarily withdrew from the Commonwealth, and the news that is put out their is of course, dependent on the political leanings of the news organisation.   

As far as Mugabe goes your Australian journalist has it all wrong again, Mugabe was not thrown out of the Commonwealth due to unfair elections, as the Commonwealth in infinite wisdom accepted the SA`n President Thabo Mbekis`s statement that the elections were free and fair, in total contradiction to the European observers from non commonwealth countries (if the journalist did her research she should have known this) he was thrown out due to the fact that he has plunged his country into a famine by throwing all the white farmers off the land and giving those farms to his buddies who happen to be his political party supporters and who have no interest in farming, PLUS the 6000% inflation rate he has thrust upon his citizens, PLUS the murder and torture of political opponents.I wonder what the Commonwealth will do when they start digging up the bodies of the over 20,000 Matabele tribesman in Northern Zimbabwe murdered by Mugabes North Korean trained 5 th Battalion in the `80`s.

From enforcing a democracy point of view the Commonwealth like the UN are a waste of time.

But we are off subject here.

Regards


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## GAP (31 Oct 2007)

What was the point of your post Korporaal?


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## JBoyd (31 Oct 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> What was the point of your post Korporaal?



I believe he posted his response from within the quote tags, his post seems to start after the end of Wes's post with "I guess there is two sides to every story, but this is how it was told outside SA."


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## Korporaal (31 Oct 2007)

To GAP

The point was in response to Wesley Down Under`s previous statements.


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## GAP (31 Oct 2007)

Korporaal said:
			
		

> To GAP
> 
> The point was in response to Wesley Down Under`s previous statements.



Then don't put your response inside the quotes.....why would anyone read 3 screens of quotes (which are hard to read at the best of times) to try and figure out where the quote ended and your response started?


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## Korporaal (31 Oct 2007)

Hey...PLAY NICE !!!

I  was trying to figure out the quote feature....and only saw what had happened once the message appeared on the screen, I then went back and tried to fix it...ahh why bother.


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## GAP (31 Oct 2007)

Korporaal said:
			
		

> Hey...PLAY NICE !!!
> 
> I  was trying to figure out the quote feature....and only saw what had happened once the message appeared on the screen, I then went back and tried to fix it...ahh why bother.



The end tag [/quote] is what you need to look for. It sometimes goes down a couple of lines and it is easy to assume the last word of what you copy and pasted is the end. If you put you comments after the [/quote] tag, you shouldn't have any  trouble.  ;D


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## Korporaal (31 Oct 2007)

I did try that...it didn`t work, so their must be something with my settings which I`ll have to check.
 :-*


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## Trooper Hale (16 Nov 2007)

Though i wasnt in Canada for long there are a lot of differences in how our Army's work. Traditions have changed or been modified (Saluting is an obvious one) from the parent British example. Equipment and intent is fairly far apart, Australia's environment is different to Canada and thus we have a different way of looking at kit and ideas. What we do overseas is different, Canada has more of an active role in fighting in Afghanistan. Australia, with diggers in East Timor, Solomon's, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc is a little more stretched in what it can. 
Our countries policies are different, Harper in Canada is doing what he see's as right, taking on the Taliban, despite it being unpopular with parts of the Canadian community. Howard is doing what he see's as right but at the same time is held back by our lack of numbers.

Look at what you want to do, i love the Australian Army but would consider maybe moving to Britain in another 4 years and trying it out over there. You might want to see about the CF and then do what Wes has done and come across over here.
Oh, and a definate pro for the ADF is that apart from School of Armour and School of Artillery in Puckapunyal, you wont go anywhere that really is as depressing as Petawawa.


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## geo (17 Nov 2007)

As depressing as Petawawa?

Obviously you haven't visited Shilo


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## time expired (17 Nov 2007)

I have given this question a lot of thought and at the moment
the CF seems like a pretty good deal, but how long is this going 
to last?.If the "not going to fight George Bush's war for oil"crowd
get back in power them I have my doubts, they will not be willing to
spend the money needed to bring our military back to a level that
is required and the CF will slip back to its pre A-Stan levels.If that 
happens you will have a quiet life in one of Canadas garden sites
Gagetown,Wainwright,Petewawa,with slow promotions,gradually
selfdestucting equipment,excitement will be provided by the odd
exercise and maybe a trip to some war-torn African country where
you will wear a blue beanie,have 5 rounds in your mag,and be told
not to take sides,while around you one side massacre the other.When 
you get back,your civilian friends will be wondering why we have an
Army,after all  the Americans couldn't allow anything to happen to us  
could they?.
Australia seems to be a better bet in the long run,Australia,it seems to 
me is on the front line given what is happening in the Asian counties
on their northern borders,political and religious unrest plus massive
rearmament in those areas.The Aussies seem to have come to the
conclusion that a country, to remain independent,should be prepared
and able to defend itself,a lesson that the majority of Canadians have
yet to absorb.So my choice,given your options,would definitely be
Oz.
            Regards


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## Towards_the_gap (17 Nov 2007)

MTS - I will simply echo DAFTANDBARMY's comments. I am a Canadian who served 6 years in the British Army, Royal Engineers, and I have now returned to Canada to join the CF, as quite simply, it was the best option for me. I don't regret a thing about my time in the UK, HOWEVER, if I knew then what I know now I would've stayed and joined the CF.

Feel free to PM me for more info on the British Army/UK lifestyle pro's and cons.

Cheers
TTG


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## 1feral1 (17 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> As depressing as Petawawa?
> 
> Obviously you haven't visited Shilo



You've never been to Singleton or worse Shoalwater Bay, now thats depressing, ha!


Cheers,

Wes


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## Trooper Hale (17 Nov 2007)

What you say TM is a good point. While Canadian politicians can tie rags around their eyes and say that everyone loves each other and would never attack Canada (Jack, oh Jack, where are you?), Australian politicians often malign the ADF in a similar way. I suppose its one of the vices of living in a 1st world, western country that people find it challenging to believe others aren't as content as themselves. Australians live in a country that is neighboured by states struggling to say afloat, both democratically and financially (Solomon's, East Timor etc), the largest Islamic nation in the world with moderates trying to control a growing bunch of lunatics while pretending that its all going well (Indonesia) and a super power near by with more people then land and a dubious record in all things (China). 

Australia's military will always have to be strong and under the Howard government money has been almost literally thrown at us. Pay is fantastic and since the last pay rise i think its on the same level or there abouts as the CF. Quality of equipment is great, even if the quantity is a little lacking. The people are fantastic and the depth of knowledge is brilliant. Its generally a great Army to be part of, and the uniforms are dead suave.
If i were thinking about joining a foreign military however, and I lived in Canada, I'd try the CF first. Serve your own country before you serve someone else's. I dont think you'd regret that.

And to Wes, at least with Singleton or Shoalwater bay you dont expect anything. Seymour's quite a large town, you could be fooled into thinking it had some form of human life in it. Sadly that isnt the case, beneath the flannel shirts, mullets and filthy beards beat the hearts of bizarre creatures not versed in normal human protocol.


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## old fart (21 Nov 2007)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> 25 years ago I'd say give it a go (hell, I did). But with all the action and interesting opportunities, plus excellent benefits and high quality people  in today's CF (the many fine people on this forum are good examples!), I'd say that the odds are stacked heavily in favour of staying in Canada's military.
> 
> Regardless, some questions you want to ask yourself before you decide to make the leap - to the British Army anyways:
> 
> ...



D&B....thanks for bringing it all flashing back!!!

After spending 2002-2006 back with HM Forces I can tell you things have not changed a great deal.  On pay though, I think you will find that they earn the same if not more than us...rank for rank...

However what is left in the pocket to jingle after the tax man has his cut does not go as far as our pay does on this side of the pond.

Still, looking back I enjoyed my Brits days (78-87, it was hard, and the conditions pretty sh_t, so what)....getting to go back in 02 and running into the old mates, some still serving was a unique opportunity.

All the best....old fart... ;D


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## daftandbarmy (23 Nov 2007)

OF,

Don't you mean sh_te? You're losing your accent....  ;D


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## old fart (24 Nov 2007)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> OF,
> 
> Don't you mean sh_te? You're losing your accent....  ;D



Not only are you trying to give me PTSD....but a complex to boot....

Lord luv a duck...


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## Falange (26 Nov 2007)

Hmmm, I was wondering if anyone knows how long it takes the recruiting process for the TA or the RMR? I am currently serving in the army reserves here in Canada, however next year I am going to the UK for grad school. I really enjoy being part time in the military, and I would love to continue doing it over there. Also, I know that if you are a commonwealth citizen who has not live 5 years prior to the application date you need to get a special waiver, does anyone know how that is obtained?

Falange


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## 1feral1 (26 Nov 2007)

If you are going there for school, I am certain there is a policy you can parade there, right in the UK, with a UK TA unit. Do a search on here for that, or check into it through your Militia unit.

Regards,

Wes


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## old fart (26 Nov 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> If you are going there for school, I am certain there is a policy you can parade there, right in the UK, with a UK TA unit. Do a search on here for that, or check into it through your Militia unit.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wes



There was a Canadian reservist doing just that 2005/2006.  He was an officer I believe, attending a UK college.  So it can be done.  The Army Staff at CDLS (L) in London could advise.

Old fart...


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## Rayman (27 Nov 2007)

If you actually go to New Zealands Army's website you'll see they recruit from the Commonwealth... however they only want current or ex-serving as they say. 

http://www.army.mil.nz/careers/overseas-applicants/default.htm



> We are currently increasing our recruiting pool to include applicants of foreign nationality in order to meet personnel resource needs. However, we currently only have vacancies for current or recent ex-serving full time military personnel from either UK, Australia, USA, Canada or NZ.


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## geo (27 Nov 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> If you are going there for school, I am certain there is a policy you can parade there, right in the UK, with a UK TA unit. Do a search on here for that, or check into it through your Militia unit.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wes


There has been an agreement with the UK on "attach posting" to a territorial unit while you are attending school.  There was another one, supposed to come out - doing same in Germany - but never heard it followed up.


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## 1feral1 (27 Nov 2007)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> 3) Are you prepared to be away from home for months, or years in some cases, while your mates get to go home regularly to see mummy and daddy? Could you handle up to 9 - 10 months away from your unit's home base per year?



It was 3 yrs before I made it home the first time, and I have not been back since 2004, but I am planning a trip out to Regina in Jul/Aug of 2008!

When you leave Canada and move to another country, and serve, from then on, Canada takes the back seat. Its a re-issue of your life, a chance to start fresh, and all over again. Coming up 13 yrs, and I have never looked back. I have become more independant, more stronger, and here I am someone, in Canada, I am someone else. I have evolved and advanced here, become more of a success in every definition of the word.

Not that many ugly women here, but I did and do still have to put up with a bunch of shit from the right people.

Do I miss Canada? Yes, but what I lose out on, I gain three-fold. 

Cheers,

Wes


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