# __Another kid hoping for some advice__



## BenFG (5 Jan 2011)

I suppose I should start this off by saying that I have read alot of of similar topics(to this one) on this forum but figured I mind as well try making one myself. Hoping to hear some magical advice/wisdom from current CF members. So here she goes...

I'm currently 17, will be 18 in july. Father was 20 years air force so I have grown up on army(purple) bases all my life. The time has come to decide what im going to do with my life. I wanted to become an officer but the way i went through highschool impedes me from going to RMC right off the bat. Last year I got accepted by the cameron highlanders infantry reserve unit in ottawa but when it came time to hand in my application at the RC I was denied and told the trade was closed.(like so many others it seems) SO here I am 1 year later but going for the regular forces this time. I am aware that all trades are closed until april and that is when I plan to apply. I've talked to a few recruiters in the past year and they all seemed to give off this vibe that there not interested in another kid for infantry/armoured solider. 

At the moment this is my plan:

- apply
- get accepted
- pass all my training
- Get posted to Edmonton or Petawawa
- serve my 3 years
- Apply for RMC
- get a degree in war studies/history
- serve until my 25 years are up
- get out and work a contractor for the army

But it just seems like the army is a really hard organization to get into, which is suprising to me considering we are currently deployed. And i realise that the forces are looking for lots of tech related jobs to be filled as well as the navy but that does not interest me. and I should be able to do what I want in the forces. This isint a last choice thing for me, I have a 5 year criminology degree lined up if I wanted to go in that direction. But the Forces IS what I want to do. And I know that there are positions out there become my sister's brother ( I'm not related by blood ) got in last year and is now stationed in the Wawa.( Infantry )

[size=10pt][size=8pt][size=12pt]So my question is: why does it seem so hard for a bilingual, tall, young white male who is in decent shape to get into the Canadian Forces as a combat arms NCM?  [/size] [/size] [/size] 

*more info about me that might add to the dicussion that will hopefully occur below:
-6 feet tall 
-165 pounds
-lots of military references for my application( lots of officers )
-I did a 6 month co-op at Connaught Cadet HQ
-Bilingual
-Act professional as well as dress professional whenever I met with a recruiter.

Thank you for reading the above and I look forward to hearing what people have to say.


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## PMedMoe (5 Jan 2011)

BenFG said:
			
		

> But it just seems like the army is a really hard organization to get into, which is suprising to me considering we are currently deployed. And i realise that the forces are looking for lots of tech related jobs to be filled as well as the navy but that does not interest me. and I should be able to do what I want in the forces. This isint a last choice thing for me, I have a 5 year criminology degree lined up if I wanted to go in that direction. But the Forces IS what I want to do. And I know that there are positions out there become my sister's brother ( I'm not related by blood ) got in last year and is now stationed in the Wawa.( Infantry )
> 
> [size=10pt][size=8pt][size=12pt]So my question is: why does it seem so hard for a bilingual, tall, young white male who is in decent shape to get into the Canadian Forces as a combat arms NCM?  [/size] [/size] [/size]



It has nothing to do with race, color, language ability or gender, the CF just isn't recruiting right now.  Many of the trades are full, if not overborne, and those that aren't have backlogs in the training system.

Here's 24 pages of reading:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88342.0.html

Good luck.

(Oh, and you might want to work on your capitalization, punctuation, etc).


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## brihard (5 Jan 2011)

Bluntly, your timing sucks.

The CF as a whole right now is overmanned, according to the government. While some of us might beg to differ, the fact remains that a great many trades are closed, and some in particular - unfortunately, for your case, the infantry - are trying to encourage guys to get out and move to other trades. The few dudes I know who've gotten into the infantry of late are typically component transfers from the reserves with tours.

Your height/weight/race/language don't factor at all, really. Most of what you want is simply full.

Something stinks in the CFRC telling you that there was no room for you in the Camerons. I'm going out on a limb and saying someone goofed. If our recruiting office told you there was a spot, that was likely accurate. CFRCs don't normally overrule reserve units on that as long as the level of manning is consistent with the unit's strategic intake plane.

For what it's worth, wait til April, and try again- and if you're considering university, sure as hell drop by Cartier Square and let us know you want in while you're going to school. A great many of us are students. And also, for the love of God, if you're considering Criminology, pick Carleton over Ottawa. 

I dig that you've got a long term plan, that's good, but if you're really considering being an infantry officer, just go right for it. If you're a smart enough cat to become an officer, doing a basic engagement in the training system and then in battalion would probably be mind numbing for you; and then most of it would go to waste when you need to start nearly from scratch through the officer's training. Odds of getting through the recruiting system and on tour during your first three years are looking increasingly slim, and without getting a deployment I frankly can't see much that a stint as an NCM would do for you that would outweigh the time it would set you back.

You've got your head in the right space, and you're thinking things through. Accepting that you might not get one of those spots any time soon, make sure you have backup plans.

If you have any questions either about the Camerons, or about going to school for Criminology, fire me a PM. We'll talk.


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## gcclarke (5 Jan 2011)

BenFG said:
			
		

> [size=10pt][size=8pt][size=12pt]So my question is: why does it seem so hard for a bilingual, tall, young white male who is in decent shape to get into the Canadian Forces as a combat arms NCM?  [/size] [/size] [/size]
> 
> *more info about me that might add to the dicussion that will hopefully occur below:
> -6 feet tall
> ...



I'm going to be a bit frank here. Most of what the other two have said is valid. However, I think a bit more needs to be said.

PMedMoe suggested you work on your punctuation etc. I would also suggest you work on your apparent sense of entitlement. We don't owe you a job in whichever career you think you would like best. You state that you think you "should be able to do what you want in the forces". This is incorrect. You can *apply* for what you want in the forces, but if what you're looking to do isn't what we're trying to fill, feel free to continue waiting. We can't all be Captain Bestjobever.

I understand that you consider yourself to be a well-qualified candidate. However, this doesn't change the fact that what you want is not in line with what the forces needs. And if you expect to go anywhere with this, you have to understand that the needs of the service will always come first.


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## Scott (5 Jan 2011)

And in case the OP or some other crusader wishes to slap the "big bad meanies" who simply told the TRUTH, I'll say this:

The advice you were given was sound and not a judgement - it was ADVICE. Take it or leave it. 

Not saying the OP will fly off the handle, just a friendly post in case someone thinks they should


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## BenFG (5 Jan 2011)

gcclarke said:
			
		

> I'm going to be a bit frank here. Most of what the other two have said is valid. However, I think a bit more needs to be said.
> 
> PMedMoe suggested you work on your punctuation etc. I would also suggest you work on your apparent sense of entitlement. We don't owe you a job in whichever career you think you would like best. You state that you think you "should be able to do what you want in the forces". This is incorrect. You can *apply* for what you want in the forces, but if what you're looking to do isn't what we're trying to fill, feel free to continue waiting. We can't all be Captain Bestjobever.
> 
> I understand that you consider yourself to be a well-qualified candidate. However, this doesn't change the fact that what you want is not in line with what the forces needs. And if you expect to go anywhere with this, you have to understand that the needs of the service will always come first.



I sincerely appreciate what you said. I may be a bit naive at my age, but does that mean I have to give up my "dream"(if you wish to call it that)?  I just feel that at my age I should have a choice. And i realize that being a member of the forces is a priviledge and not a right. But again, thank you for being honest.

( As for my punctuation, i'm no english major and was raised in french schools. But I will work on it )


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## aesop081 (5 Jan 2011)

BenFG said:
			
		

> I just feel that at my age I should have a choice.



WE ARE FULL..............


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## Franko (5 Jan 2011)

BenFG said:
			
		

> I just feel that at my age *I should have a choice*.



You don't. You're applying for a job. 

Don't like it? McDonalds is hiring.



> And i realize that being a member of the forces is a priviledge and not a right.



Apparently you don't realize it at all by the way you are posting right now.

Regards


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## Alea (5 Jan 2011)

> But it just seems like the army is a really hard organization to get into, which is suprising to me considering we are currently deployed.



You sure have not read enough on this site. 

But to make it clear: Yes, it is difficult to get into the Canadian Forces... other than the fact that they are just not offering any positions right now (and for a very long while), it should be a bit difficult no? I mean, aren't we talking about the army??



> And I know that there are positions out there become my sister's brother ( I'm not related by blood ) got in last year and is now stationed in the Wawa.( Infantry )



And this was last year. We are now "this year" and the CF is just not hiring so there will not be any magic for you more than for anyone else. 
You will have to be patient like the rest of us. 



> [size=10pt][size=8pt][size=12pt]So my question is: why does it seem so hard for a bilingual, tall, young white male who is in decent shape to get into the Canadian Forces as a combat arms NCM?  [/size] [/size] [/size]



Congratulations for being in decent shape.

And... sorry for being blunt but: *Who cares * about your color skin and how tall you are?

You will not be hired based upon your "physical attributes". 
If you get a job in the CF, it will be only because you succeed at all the enrolment process and because you have the studies required to fill in the position you'll apply for.

Good luck,
Alea


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Jan 2011)

I`ve locked this as the lad has been given all the advice he needs on what the current situation is for recruiting right now.

Bruce


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## Yoda (11 Jan 2011)

Hello, 

I am a High School student. I am in the middle of applying for RMC under the ROTP program. It is mainly my parents request for me to apply/attend RMC because of what they have to offer. (paid education, pendsion ect,) 
I have been looking deeply into the program (benefits, training, and what not) and I find myself second guessing all the time. One day I think it's a good idea and the next day I don't. I've looked at the RMC life and basic training. There are things like marching, drill, the uniform all the time that just really throw me off. I like that they challenge you physically  because I've been into competitive sports my whole life I would enjoy the intensity, competitiveness, the obstacle courses and all that stuff. I also really like that I wont have to worry about university dept, ill have a pension, and dental care and all that. 
I know it's very immature and childish but I have zero interest for marching and drill and the little things like that. 

I'm just a teenager trying to puzzle my life, thanks for the help .. 
Mitchell


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## REDinstaller (11 Jan 2011)

Well then, if you have no interest in being a member of the CF as we do all of those things you don't want to. Then maybe you should stick with a Civi university, then you won't waste your time or the crowns.


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## bdave (11 Jan 2011)

No, because this seems to be something that is forced onto you.
As an individual, I have no idea.

It is not right for your parents to tell you what to do with your life, at this point.
You do realize that you are basically signing away the next decade of your life, to please your parents?

If you are interested in a career in the military, then do ROTP, but don't do it at RMC.
You can do ROTP in a civilian university with all the benefits (paid education, pension, etc) but you only have to work the summer. You would not have to do endless drills, marching and all that boring stuff this way. You still owe 'them' a few years after you get out of university, however.
You have to be enrolled in a civie university before you can apply for ROTP.
I HIGHLY recommend you go this route (ROTP at civie university) IF and only IF you are still deadset on a military career + your parents is something you can't get away from. 
If it's what you want, fine, but this is something that you should do because YOU want it.


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## Shamrock (11 Jan 2011)

There is an other option available to ROTP applicants: civilian university. During the academic session, officer cadets are essentially professional students. During normal summer breaks, one's job reverts to soldiering.   Not all applicants get the academy they want, though. It's a risk you'll have to run. 

Typical military life is typically less intense than the training atmosphere, but the underlying tones of discipline, professionalism, and subordination are very much present.  Drill, however, may be required still.


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## JMesh (11 Jan 2011)

No one here can tell you if you are "military material." You will need to look at the pros and cons of it and likely do some deep thinking about it. There are too many factors that you don't mention here. My initial thought is that it might not be right for you, but as I said, there are too many unknowns for someone online to give you a fully thought out answer.

Also, I like to think of the military like many other things (my area of study, music, is one). The vast majority of people are capable of doing it, but some will and some won't. Some will thrive, others will struggle every step of the way and/or give up. Some people will have innate abilities in areas that will work well with the military, while some will have to work very, very hard for it. Regardless of this, everyone will have areas they find challenging. There are those who find it worthwhile, and there are also those who do not. Think about it, talk it over with people who know you and with CF recruiters, and figure it out for yourself. Whatever path you choose, best of luck to you (though I remind you, luck has little to do with it).


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## probi (12 Jan 2011)

Youll learn that you are whatever you make your self.  Take that opportunity to go to the RMC when your 25, successful, smart, and healthier than you ever imagined you will consider it the best move you've made in your life.  Just remember,  its the military,  its gona SUCK because they are essentially training to operate at your best capacity possible in the suck.     But it is also going to be the funnest and most adventerous move you make in your life.   Youll see plenty of folk that arnt "military material" make the Canadian forces proud.  



Carpe Diem my friend.


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## Nauticus (12 Jan 2011)

If you're uninterested in military life, I suggest leaving your position to somebody that is interested in it.


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## Pusser (12 Jan 2011)

bdave said:
			
		

> If you are interested in a career in the military, then do ROTP, but don't do it at RMC.
> You can do ROTP in a civilian university with all the benefits (paid education, pension, etc) but you only have to work the summer. You would not have to do endless drills, marching and all that boring stuff this way. You still owe 'them' a few years after you get out of university, however.
> You have to be enrolled in a civie university before you can apply for ROTP.
> I HIGHLY recommend you go this route (ROTP at civie university) IF and only IF you are still deadset on a military career + your parents is something you can't get away from.
> If it's what you want, fine, but this is something that you should do because YOU want it.



Where are you getting your information?  Although the military aspects of life at a civilian university while on ROTP are not as intense as they are at RMC, they are not absent either.  There may still be some military requirements to be met during the school year.  You don't get your summers off either (you will get some leave though).  You will be on military courses with the RMC students and will find yourself playing catch-up with them as their basic military skills will be more refined than yours.  There is no getting away from the "drill, marching and all that boring stuff."  It's part of military life.  Get used to it.  Does anyone really want to be the bumbling officer that everyone makes fun of because he/she can't execute a simple drill movement?  

Do NOT apply for ROTP if you're not interested in the military and only want a free education.  That education is not free!  You will pay, not in money, but in other ways and not just with the obligatory service that comes with it.  Furthermore, if you can't commit yourself to a military life, you will be miserable and won't survive.  Paying your own way through school is far superior to being thrown out of the CF (with all the long-term implications that go with that), which is what can happen if your lack of interest manifests itself as a "bad attitude."

You do NOT have to be enrolled in a civilian university in order to apply for ROTP.  You can apply while in high school.  Furthermore, already being enrolled in and attending a civilian university does not guarantee you will stay there if accepted.  I've known civvy U guys who ended up at RMC.  I've even known of guys who went to basic training believing they were going to civvy U, only to be told at the end of the course that spots at RMC had opened up, so that's where they were going.  Remember, when you apply for ROTP, you are applying for an officer commissioning program, not a university.  After the powers that be have decided whether you are accepted into ROTP, then they will decide whether you go to RMC or another institution.  It's their choice, not yours (although your preferences will be considered).  The only surefire way to avoid RMC is to be accepted into ROTP with a degree program that is not offered there. 

I have great concerns about anyone who joins the military, but doesn't want to do any of that military stuff.


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## KingofKeys (12 Jan 2011)

To the OP:

You seem to _love _all the advantages of Military life. However, you also seem to despise most of the _work_ that will be part of your Military service. Just explain this to your parents. They will understand.

As a side note: It is not immature or childish to admit you "have zero interest for marching and drill and the little things like that". But, remember, all career choices will inevitably require you to do "little things" that you will have no interest in. When you happen to come across one of these "little things" in your future, I hope you will learn to embrace it. 

All the best in the future.


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## chrisf (12 Jan 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Well then, if you have no interest in being a member of the CF as we do all of those things you don't want to. Then maybe you should stick with a Civi university, then you won't waste your time or the crowns.



We do other things too. If all we did was polish buttons and march around in a circle, I would have quit long ago.

I've gotten lucky on all the BMQ courses I've taught. My section IC or 2IC has always enjoyed teaching drill classes, and I very much enjoy not teaching drill classes. It works out well.

[Edit: Given that there is no doubt somone will be along shortly to tell me how important drill is, and how my oppinion on the subject is wrong, I will in advance post this link to help illustrate my thoughts on drill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9HJ1cRicUE ]


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## brihard (12 Jan 2011)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> [Edit: Given that there is no doubt somone will be along shortly to tell me how important drill is, and how my oppinion on the subject is wrong, I will in advance post this link to help illustrate my thoughts on drill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9HJ1cRicUE ]



YES! I saw the sentence, and then th e'youtube' in the link... And I hoped. And I dreamed... Could it be? Would it be *that* video?


Today we're going to do marchin' up an' down the square!


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