# Movie - Flags of Our Fathers



## Nieghorn (23 Oct 2006)

Has anyone seen this yet?  Thoughts?

I'm also interested to see (I think it's called) 'Letters From Iwo Jima' filmed by Clint et al at the same time, looking at the Japanese perspective.  The IMDB says Ken Watannabe is cast as Gen. Kuribayashi.


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## fly_lady_fly (27 Oct 2006)

I saw this flick a few days ago with my boyfriend (who loves war movies) and we were both pretty disappointed. I don't want to give up too much in case you decide to see it, but it was more about the US Bond Drive efforts than anything to do with the island. If you're interested in the business side of war and the military, I'd recommend it. If you're looking for a good, old-fashioned war movie, I'd say find something else. Hope this helps!

Take care.


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## Nieghorn (27 Oct 2006)

I guess I went into this movie armed with two reviews having said it's not so much a war flick as a drama, so wasn't as disappointed.  I happened to really like this film.  I've not read the book of the same name, apparently written by the son of one of the surviving flag raisers (surviving the actual battle that is), so can't really comment on how accurately they portrayed the persons involved, etc.  That said, I did like how it looked at the concept of 'hero' and 'heroism' - echoing what you hear from many vets, that the true heroes never made it home.  If it were fiction, I reckon they could have extended that theme a bit more, but I supposed your average marine isn't so philosophical.  

I've heard some people speculate that Adam Beach could find himself up for a 'supporting actor' nomination, and I'd be one to echo that.  He deserves to start getting more good non-Native roles.

Alongside the drama, I thought there were some great actions scenes that set the tone and served to visualize the horrors the main characters experienced.  Being on board a Corsair for a couple of scenes makes me think it's about time someone does a film about some part of the airwar.  It was thrilling on the big screen!

If you're not the type to sit around and watch the credits, sit until the true ending and you'll get to see lots of actual photos of the men involved and some of the great shots taken from Iwo Jima at the time.


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## tomahawk6 (28 Oct 2006)

I too was disappointed. I guess I was looking for a classic clint eastwood combat movie.


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## fly_lady_fly (28 Oct 2006)

Maybe they should have gotten Chuck Norris to direct it. Bet we woulda seen some combat then!!


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## patrick666 (28 Oct 2006)

If Chuck Norris directed it, all you would have seen is the beginnings of a roundhouse and everybody in the theatre would be knocked out..


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## Nieghorn (28 Oct 2006)

Ha, ha ... well, I guess I'm also a combination of my history and English degrees.  I'm the sort of person who likes a war film that goes into the drama of it all, praying that one day, Terrence Malick will release the full 9h director's cut of 'The Thin Red Line.'       (... or failing that, the 6.5 h first cut)


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## Petard (29 Oct 2006)

Just seen the movie, I'd say definitely worth seeing on the big screen. The movie itself I thought looked like it lost its focus part way through, maybe just trying to cover too much territory, maybe not one of Clint's best, but IMO still worth going to see. 
To echo what Nieghorn said, stick around to watch the credits at the end of the movie, the stark still photo's of the actual people and events at Iwo Jima are probably more powerful than the rest of the movie.


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## patrick666 (29 Oct 2006)

I just think it was marketed falsely. In the previews all you see is action, action, action but in the movie it's mostly the guys meeting people and going on tour to sign pictures. All the action was in the previews!

They know what will draw in the crowd regardless of their opinion because they've already spent their money to see it. It was decent but not something I would want to see again.


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## Red 6 (29 Oct 2006)

Below is my review of Flags of our Fathers that I posted on my web site, World War II Gyrene, on 20 October 2006:

http://www.ww2gyrene.org/weblog.htm

I watched Flags Of Our Fathers at the local theater yesterday. I couldn't wait until tonight when the local Marine contingent heads to the flick. FOOF, in my opinion, does a good job of telling its story.

This film covers a lot of ground and tries to keep several (I lost count at four) story lines going at the same time. Sometimes while watching, I got lost trying to figure out who was who as the scenes switched back and forth from Iwo Jima, the war bond tour, and the 1990s.

I have a special place in my heart for Mike Strank, and I wear a KIA bracelet every day with his name engraved on it. Barry Pepper played him in Flags and I felt he did a very serviceable job. He looked like a Marine NCO and obviously was comfortable in the role.

The absolute stand-out of this film was Adam Beach. As Ira Hayes, he hit the ball out of the park. Beach was so believable as the tormented Marine, it was almost eerie. Beach has mastered his craft and grown as an actor since his last Marine role, Pvt Ben Yahzee in Windtalkers. As the film portrayed the war bonds tour and Hayes' struggle with alcohol and his memories, I really felt his pain.

It seemed as though the film was built around Beach, since he was really the only character who had much depth to him. I never figured out whether or not this was on purpose or not. It was hard to keep track of who Harlon Block and Franklin Sousley were, since they weren't clearly identified early in the film. Hank Hansen was easy to spot when he was wearing his steel pot without a helmet cover. Otherwise, he would've been lost in the crowd too.

I really wanted to identify with these Marines, but instead I felt oddly detached. Even Doc Bradley and Rene Gagnon were both pretty much one-dimensional characters. Doc was earnest and serious. Rene was a climber looking for fame.

The Iwo Jima scenes were critical, and here Flags stood out. As one of the most filmed campaigns of World War II, there was little wiggle room in portraying the combat of Iwo. The production team just couldn't afford to get the 75% solution in the combat scenes. It had to be spot-on, and Flags delivered. At times, I felt right in the moment watching these parts. They even went to the trouble of recreating some famous battle photographs during the filming in Iceland.

Coming in to the theater, I was wondering if the combat footage was going to be as punishing to watch as Saving Private Ryan. While graphic and brutal, Flags didn't leave me feeling exhausted and depressed the way SPR did. We've seen way too much over the top — almost surreal — violence in films in the past several years. Flags left me with no doubt that Iwo Jima was shockingly horrific, but the pacing gave me time to breath.

From the nit picky, military viewpoint, there were a couple of things I spotted in the film that made me scratch my head. When the convoy arrived off Iwo Jima, the Marines spent D–1 sitting on the weather deck of their transport watching the shore bombardment. During the night, Sgt Strank sits topside reading a letter by the light of his cigarette lighter within range of the Japanese guns on Mount Suribachi. As far as I know, this whole sequence was made up for the movie.

From the super nit picky military viewpoint, all the watertight doors on the ship were standing wide open every time I saw them on screen. Especially at battle stations off the island, every water tight door would've been dogged. Submarine and aerial attacks were a real concern to every ship's crew.

And then there was the swimming on the beach scene, which I won't say anything about since I don't want to spoil the film for you. To find out about this one, you'll have to go see Flags yourself.

So, what grade does Flags Of Our Fathers get from World War II Gyrene? I give it a passable B– for its portrayal of this defining event in our history. Like every film, there were areas that could've been improved on. But in general, the story moved along and did its job. My only big complaint was the shallow character development—except for Ira Hayes, I never felt a true connection to the characters, even though I really wanted to.

Below are some comments I made about the film a few days after I saw the film with more specifics:

1) The portrayal of General Vandegrift during the Chicago scenes. First of all the 18th Commandant of the Marine Corps wasn't a fat guy as depicted by the actor in the film. General Vandegrift was tall with proportional weight. Many of his contemporaries described him with words such as, "polite," "stately," "dignified," etc. His depiction on screen did a disservice to him and the Marine Corps. His calm leadership and decisive command presence were bopth key reasons why he was awarded the Medal of Honor for the campaign on Guadalcanal. General Vandegrift was a Virginia gentleman of the old school, not a loud mouth like the actor who was chosen to play him on screen.

As one of the architects of the World War II Marine Corps, he fully understood the citizen-Marine nature of the wartime Corps. He was reputed to have his driver stop during trips around Washington, DC, to give enlisted Marines a lift. The scene where he bawls out the flag raisers at the stadium entrance, according to all accounts, did not happen.

2) When the invasion fleet put into harbor at Saipan on February 11th, 1945, the assault companies of 2/28, including Easy Company, cross decked from the USS Missoula (APA 211) into LSTs 14, 15, and 28. They rode the LSTs from Saipan to the Transport Area off Iwo Jima. The scene where they sit on the deck of the Lane Victory watching the shore bombardment on D-1 was a total fiction. The LST convoy reached the Transport Area early in the morning of D-Day. The convoy was in enemy waters when it reached Iwo and the crews were at battle stations. Marines weren't allowed to sit on deck within effective range of enemy shore batteries at night reading letters by cigarette lighter. They were at darken ship and sealed in their berthing compartments until called to debarkation stations.

3) General Smith wasn't on the Missoula during the run-in to Iwo. He was a colorful character, and an outstanding combat leader, but the conference where Pfc Gagnon was a runner on the wall never happened, by all accounts. General Smith was the Commander of Expeditionary Troops, a largely ceremonial post. General Harry Schmidt exercised tactical control as the Commander of the Vth Amphibious Corps. General Smith was embarked on the command ship, USS Eldorado and didn't attend any meetings on the Missoula.

4) General Smith landed on D+4 with SecNav Forrestal and the SecNav uttered words to the effect, "that flag up there guarantees a Marine Corps for the next five hundred years." (There were a couple of different variations recorded by different witnesses.) No one who was present ever wrote that the SecNav said "I want that flag." It's true he later wrote a memo that he wanted the flag to display in his office. But the implication in the film was that he personally wanted the flag as a memento. His intent was to display the flag in an official capacity.

I think Flags Of Our fathers was a good movie. But, in my opinion, it played fast and loose with some of the history, which isn't a surprise.


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## Danjanou (29 Oct 2006)

Red 6 I agree with your take on the movie. I saw it last week and there are some minor discrepancies, the worst being the rather negative portrayal of General Vandegrift. Overall though well worth seeing. Hopefully Eastwood and company including Beach will be taking a well deserved trip to the Podium Oscar night next Feb.


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## Sheerin (6 Nov 2006)

Saw it last weekend.  While I enjoyed the movie I do agree with most of the criticisms posted above.  
Though I personally, I don't think Eastwood is that good of a director.  I find that his style is very blunt, particularly with dramatic scenes; i noticed this with Mystic River as well.  Its almost as if he doesn't believe that the audidence will get the point of the scene if he doesn't bang us over the head with it.


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## Petard (10 Nov 2006)

Looks like this movie is really going to tank at the box office, too bad.
To those who were disappointed and say don't go or are saying to hold out until something better comes along, you're probably going to have a long wait. I wouldn't be surprised that the Japanese version of this story doesn't get its release date delayed because of the lousy box-office. Might even make the money changers in Hollywood buck-shy of telling these kind of stories, and that's a shame, because inspite of the flaws in this movie (and yes I'm guilty of pointing some out too) there is still a lot worth seeing in it.
Maybe as it gets closer to Oscar time they'll re-release it and take another run at it. Hopefully it'll find an audience then and encourage people to find out more about the story.


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## Shec (10 Nov 2006)

Saw it a couple of nights ago.  If one is looking for a John Wayne-take-the-hill- with- a- Swiss Army knife action movie this isn't it.  But if one is looking for a serious psychological drama rooted in history it is.  It's about what can happen to ordinary decent young men exposed to a potent mix that in this instance is combat, homefront policy, and hype.  It is both a tribute to the human spirit and an indictment of human foibles and frailties.  It beats the hell out of any phoney-baloney Chuck Norris/Sylvester Stallone escapism.  I give it 5 thumbs up.  A great sequel to  the 1960's biographical story of Ira Hayes,  The Outsider,  which starred Tony Curtis.


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## triniman (19 Nov 2006)

I found the film to be a bit anti-climatic and not as good as the last two Clint Eastwood films.  Adam Beach was terrific, however.

I wasn't sure what to expect.  It wasn't a traditional war movie.  It actually destroys some of the mysticism surrounding the people raising the flag in the famous photograph.  

I don't think Eastwood will get nominated for a Best Director Oscar, especially when Martin Scorcese's The Departed is so strong.

The biggest surprise for me, however, was how the film left my local theatre after less than two weeks and ended up playing in one theatre in Winnipeg.  It didn't catch on with the public.  Having said that, I'm glad I saw it.

Next up for Eastwood, is another war film made from the perspective of the Japanese...


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## George Wallace (19 Nov 2006)

I see some people here don't have any conception of what a 'War MOVIE' is.  What kind of 'Movie' would you say "Catch 22", "MASH", "Apocalypse Now" or "Slaughterhouse Five" would be?  They all deal with 'war' and make very poignant statements on 'war'.  They are 'War Movies' too.


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## JBoyd (13 Dec 2007)

I just watched this movie tonight, I have not had a chance to read the book as of yet though.

I do not know much surrounding Iwo Jima or the flag raising for that matter, However, I found the movie to be quite good from a cinematic standpoint. I cannot speak on the historical accuracy of the film, and although it seemed to be obviously pro-american It did a good job on telling a story, and had what I believe to be outstanding character development. 


For me, it had all the great storytelling elements of fictional war movies, and yet had enough true story basis to get myself touched on an emotional level.


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## ModlrMike (13 Dec 2007)

JBoyd said:
			
		

> I cannot speak on the historical accuracy of the film, and although it seemed to be obviously pro-american



How could it be anything but obviously pro-american?


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## kurolap (27 Oct 2008)

i was disappointed by the film; letters from Iwo jima was a much better.

Flags of our fathers; the book, was in my opinion very well written, full of detail, and just an excellent read


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## tynanfromBC (21 Nov 2008)

though i am very late on this; i agree that letters from Iwo Jima was better.

I watched the two back-to-back, FOOF then LfIJ. Sadly, both sides lost a great deal of soldiers, and i felt LfIJ was the only of the two that showed the struggle all of the soldiers had to go through to survive.


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