# Reinstating the Alberta Provincial Police?



## Inspir (23 Jul 2006)

This may have been discussed in the forum before but I did not find anything on the search function.

It has come into discussion in my CJ class about the possible reinstatement of the Alberta Provincial Police, and subsequently the removal of the RCMP from Alberta. In discussions with other police officers and the Alberta Sheriffs department, they say that this will most likely occur in the next ten to fifteen years. Hence the Sheriffs department, through the Alberta Solicitor General, would then become the APP.

I am looking for opinions on this matter. Especially from current or former police officers. Do you think it would be practical to reinstate the APP? 

An old article from the Fraser Institute makes for some interesting arguments:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=562



> A new paper Policing Alberta: An Analysis of the Alternatives to the Federal Provision of Police Services, released today by The Fraser Institute, recommends that the province undertake a thorough review of the costs and benefits of restoring a provincial police force in Alberta.
> 
> As part of an on-going public debate over the restoration of provincial police forces, the authors outline several options for police services, particularly outside of Calgary and Edmonton. Among the alternatives to be considered, the province can:
> 
> ...



Thanks


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## George Wallace (23 Jul 2006)

On this subject, you may want to have a look at New Brunswick.  Back in the 1970's NB went and resurrected their old Provincial Police Force and created the NB Highway Patrol.  It lasted perhaps five years, before it was again disbanded.  I believe that there was problems in the end with funding.  There may have been other problems, but they may be worth a look at for ideas of what may go wrong, or what may be involved with keeping a Provincial Force in operation.  Then you can look at how Ontario and Quebec are maintaining their Forces.

There are a lot more factors involved that simply 'rebadging' the Sherriffs.


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## a_majoor (23 Jul 2006)

The positive aspect to creating an APP would be the ability of the RCMP to reassign their officers to other, undermanned jurisdictions.

The downside would be the transition period as the APP established itself, there would be a steep learning curve, not just within the field force but also to establish the support services like a creditable crime lab or labs, communications backbones, internal security and internal affairs and so on. There would also be the period when the APP would not have any "community" roots as the detachments are stood up, the officers would be operating in a semi vaccum until the local population learned to trust and accept them.

This is not to say establishing an APP is impossible or should not be done, and as for funding, Alberta, of all provinces, has the least to worry about.


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## pbi (23 Jul 2006)

We have a pretty good force in the OPP here in ON. They cover most rural areas that are not protected by their own Regional Police force, most major Provincial Highways, and some smaller towns that don't have a force (or contracted it out as a cost saving measure). In a few places (Haldimand County) they ARE the ''Regional Police'', under contract.

Even with that, the RCMP are still here in Ontario, with a Div HQ and dets in all major cities. They look after drugs and selected other federal statutes, usually in cooperation with the OPP and municipal/regional police.

To me, having your own Provincial Police would be a desireable goal for a Province that can afford it and can recruit for it: Alberta would certainly meet those requirements.
~

Cheers


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## Inspir (23 Jul 2006)

Alberta, money bags indeed. I think when it comes down to financial concerns over re-establishing the Alberta Provincial Police, Alberta would have it covered.

From what I hear the Sheriffs are doing highway patrol in northern Alberta (way north) in cooperation with the RCMP on a pilot program basis. From personal experience I know that the sheriffs department has been hiring ten fold the usual amount of personnel than usual. Could be from regular turnover or preparing for a transition, either way, every policing agency it seems in Canada (especially in Alberta) are having a difficult time recruiting new personnel to replace the baby boomer generation.

Personally, I think that every province/territory should be responsible for providing its own police force. This is not to say that the RCMP would leave provincial policing completely, they would still be available for forensic and technical support. The RCMP would then become more focused on federal investigation, much like the FBI in the USA. 

I look forward to scrutiny.


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## CBH99 (23 Jul 2006)

Inspir - happen to live in Lethbridge, do ya?  (As do I now, and also a CJ student.)

From discussing this matter with a certain Traffic Enforcement instructor (aka, DL) - the current status of such an initiative is this.

The Alberta government is running a pilot project concerning the Alberta Sheriff's Department.  As such right now, the idea is to have the ASD replace the Alberta Government's SOB in some services, such as courthouse security and prisoner transport.  Even now, in Lethbridge and Chinook county courthouses, the ASD is slowly taking over the roles that were once filled primarily by the SOB.  That being said, don't think of it as being significant - I believe the Alberta government is simply stripping off one uniform and replacing it with another, as the pay and benefits, and general duties, have not changed.

Also a part of the pilot project is to have the ASD maintain a dedicated traffic section, re:  Highway Patrol.  This is due to the sheer lack of police presence in many parts of rural Alberta, in both northern and southern Alberta.  You may notice Sheriff squadcars operating near Clareshome/Nanton/Barons/Nobleford areas.  (Seen two Sheriff's squadcars in the past week alone).  The reason for this is because although the RCMP does a fairly good job at policing small rural communities, it does not have the manpower to patrol or provide immediate assistance to the real boonies.  As I'm sure you know, Lethbridge RCMP is a fairly small detachment due to the LRPS.  Nanton has its own police service (Who the hell would have thought that, I know) - and Vulcan has an RCMP detachment.  That leaves communities such as Nobleford, Champion, Monarch, Barons, etc, etc. without any permanent police presence at all.  The idea is to have the new ASD provide an increased police presence in these communities, due to the RCMP's manpower shortage to effectively cover these areas.

An idea also floating around about the new ASD is to have a dedicated warrant section, re:  a section dedicated to serving outstanding warrants.  (Don't worry, they won't be wasting their time kicking in your door for unpaid parking tickets.)  Although this idea has been much discussed, not much action had been taken in regards to this.  As you pointed out, the ASD is hiring like mad just to fill the boots of the positions they have open, re:  courthouse security, prisoner transport, and highway patrol.  So the warrant tasking is still very much an idea, although it is an idea the political leadership of Alberta (re: Cenaiko) seems to be moving towards.  Between the Alberta government purchasing 50 + Impala patrol vehicles, as well as 400 + service weapons, this pilot project is definitely gaining some momentum and putting some muscle on.  As to where it goes remains to be seen, although that is the current status of the new ASD pilot project and most likely where it is headed.

If you are interested in learning more, go to the Alberta government website.  Under government jobs, look under law enforcement/regulatory services, and read the job description.  This should give you an even better idea as to what will be expected from members, as well as providing you with a means to apply online.


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## Inspir (26 Jul 2006)

CBH99  Im taking the same program as you at LCC but Im taking it at a different campus. I plan on heading down there some time.

Do you know if the ASD has the authority to make charges under the Criminal Code of Canada? With there status as Special Constables under the Alberta Police Act I am not sure as to whether they can or not.


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## rogsco (29 Jul 2006)

Just read in the Edmonton Journal the other day that the Alberta Govt had decided against creating an APP and are sticking with the RCMP. Sorry, don't have the date of the article, because its already been recycled. Was within the last week though.


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## mpitts (29 Jul 2006)

I was able to dig it up....here ya go.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=2e579d69-0d45-42f5-9177-bdcada419340&k=51435


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## CBH99 (31 Jul 2006)

Good article, thanks for posting it.

To add further to the discussion, I believe it is important to identify what the Alberta government pilot project is intended for.

The Alberta Sheriff's Office is not intended to replace the RCMP.  It is not meant to be a provincial police service, although it is meant to provide a uniformed service to areas in which the RCMP is not very visible.  (In southern Alberta, places like Nobleford, Barons, Champion, Granum, etc.)

The Sheriff's Office is placing a priority on the Traffic Section of the organization.  The pilot project intends to use this section as a Highway Patrol, allowing enforcement of the TSA in areas that don't otherwise have much police presence.  Not only this, but the traffic section is also intended to be able to respond to motor vehicle accidents (MVA's) more quickly in isolated rural areas, while awaiting support from the closest support base.  (Whether its police, fire, or EMS).

The other purpose of the dedicated Traffic Section, in addition to Highway Patrol, is mainly more eyes on Alberta rural highways.  The amount of illegal contraband that comes up through the US-Canada border (Coutts alone is outstanding) - in addition to the contraband that is trafficked mainly from BC and headed East - is quite large.  By having highly mobile, and armed, special constables patrolling the rural areas of Alberta, the provincial law enforcement body as a whole (Both municipal and rural) have an extra tool in their arsenal when it comes to tracking and intercepting illegal contraband and criminals.

As per my previous post, the Sheriff's Office is also taking over duties from the Security Operations Branch of the Alberta government.  This includes VIP protection, courthouse security, prisoner transport.  There is also an idea to develop a dedicated Warrant Section, that would focus strictly on apprehending suspects with outstanding warrants.  However, right now the focus is on the Highway Section, and courthouse matters.

**  I apologize.  I am exhausted while writing this, and I'm sure my writing quality tonight is poor.  Just trying to clarify that the Sheriff's Office is NOT intended to be a provincial police service, but rather a pilot project by the Alberta government to distribute armed special constables to rural Alberta in an attempt to 'tighten up' law enforcement services in those areas.**


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## CBH99 (31 Jul 2006)

Inspir, sorry for not answering that second question of yours.  (As stated, exhausted right now).

Yes, special constables can make charges under the C.C.  

Members of the ASD/ASO, like many other special constables, are considered to be peace officers, and therefore can lay charges under the C.C.  (I know that is a broad statement, I would go into further detail but you seem to already have a bit of an education in regards to this, in addition to me being exhausted.)


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## Neill McKay (31 Jul 2006)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> The Sheriff's Office is placing a priority on the Traffic Section of the organization.  The pilot project intends to use this section as a Highway Patrol, allowing enforcement of the TSA in areas that don't otherwise have much police presence.  Not only this, but the traffic section is also intended to be able to respond to motor vehicle accidents (MVA's) more quickly in isolated rural areas, while awaiting support from the closest support base.  (Whether its police, fire, or EMS).
> 
> The other purpose of the dedicated Traffic Section, in addition to Highway Patrol, is mainly more eyes on Alberta rural highways.  The amount of illegal contraband that comes up through the US-Canada border (Coutts alone is outstanding) - in addition to the contraband that is trafficked mainly from BC and headed East - is quite large.  By having highly mobile, and armed, special constables patrolling the rural areas of Alberta, the provincial law enforcement body as a whole (Both municipal and rural) have an extra tool in their arsenal when it comes to tracking and intercepting illegal contraband and criminals.



Much of what you've listed here is what most people would probably consider police work.  I wonder if this is the first time in Canada the term "sheriff" has been used to describe what are essentially cops?  Creeping Americanism, or am I just ignorant of the realities of provincial sherrifs?

(We have sheriffs in New Brunswick, but their role is related to the court system [transporting prisoners, courtroom functions, etc.]  It's only recently that they've started dressing vaguely like police officers.)


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## George Wallace (31 Jul 2006)

If I remember correctly, in Saskatchewan the Sheriff was an Officer of the Court.  He had more or less the same responsibilities as a By-Law Officer would as well as Court Room  duties and responsibilities.  Not really a LEO.


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## GAP (31 Jul 2006)

I don't think they are considered much different here in Manitoba..


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## rogsco (31 Jul 2006)

http://www.solgen.gov.ab.ca/security_services/sheriffs.aspx explains what the Alberta Sherrifs do. I work with some of them as an Aide-de-Camp. The group who provide legisltature security and security/drive for the Lt Gov were redesignated as sherrifs recently. According to one of the fellows I work with, its an amalgamation of a few former roles with the addition of traffic enforcement. I don't know any more than that, but I do know that the ones I work with through the Lt Gov office cringe when I greet them with "howdy sherrif".  ;D


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## Neill McKay (31 Jul 2006)

rogsco said:
			
		

> http://www.solgen.gov.ab.ca/security_services/sheriffs.aspx explains what the Alberta Sherrifs do.



From there: "What is Executive Security?  This unit is responsible for the personal protection of the Premier, his family, cabinet ministers, MLAs and other dignitaries."

From what?  I find it very surprising that a premier's family (or any of the others mentioned) would need protection.  Has there been some kind of incident in the past that triggered this?


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## CBH99 (1 Aug 2006)

Its not a matter of waiting for an incident to occur, before placing security around the premier of the wealthiest province in Canada.  Its just common sense, and politically responsible, to provide protection for political leaders, especially those in power.

On a side note, remember when someone got so close to premier Ralph Klein to smash a pie into his face?  What if that had been a shank to the kidney instead?  Waiting for an incident to occur before providing security to a political leader is just, for lack of a better phrase, nonsense.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Neil, but - people ask the same question you do, then wonder why there wasn't security present when something does actually happen.


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## Neill McKay (2 Aug 2006)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> On a side note, remember when someone got so close to premier Ralph Klein to smash a pie into his face?  What if that had been a shank to the kidney instead?  Waiting for an incident to occur before providing security to a political leader is just, for lack of a better phrase, nonsense.



Do you feel that nobody should be able to get near the Premier, then?


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## Inspir (4 Aug 2006)

It's not a matter of no one getting to close to the Premier; its a matter of protection through pre-planning and preparedness. Do you not think wherever the Premier goes there is planning involved to make sure he gets there safe, and when he gets there he remains safe? Every Premier in Canada has a close protection program for them and their families. This especially makes sense in Alberta since he runs the richest province in Canada, and is a calky SOB who has a tendency to piss a lot of people off.


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## KevinB (4 Aug 2006)

Its going to happen.  For a number of reasons some of which follow

1) IIRC the contract with the RCMP runs out in 2011.

2) Alberta is deivergent on a number of Federal/Provincial issues and does not want its provincial police to enforce certain laws.


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## geo (4 Aug 2006)

To the list of provinces with a force: 
Musn't forget the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary.


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## geo (4 Aug 2006)

as pointed out by Infidel, part of the issue will always be jurisdictional and the other will be financial...
Do you prefer to fund and maintain your own force OR pay someone else to do it.


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## Inspir (3 Dec 2006)

Found these pictures of the Alberta Sheriffs Department. Thought I would post them for yalls












http://www.solgen.gov.ab.ca/sheriffs_branch/default.aspx?id=4810


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## CBH99 (8 Feb 2007)

Inspir said:
			
		

> CBH99  Im taking the same program as you at LCC but Im taking it at a different campus. I plan on heading down there some time.
> 
> Do you know if the ASD has the authority to make charges under the Criminal Code of Canada? With there status as Special Constables under the Alberta Police Act I am not sure as to whether they can or not.




Just an update on this for you Inspir, as of Jan. 1, 2007 - yes they can.  Their mandate was expanded from Special Constable status to full Peace Officer status on January 1st, 2007.  Partly because of a need on their part, as they intercept a lot of vehicles that come across the border - and partly because that is the direction the government seems to be taking them.  They are now fully armed as well, and have Peace Officer status.


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## bisonmedic (8 Feb 2007)

The ASD which used to be " Provincial Constables " have always been armed, the name and some taskings have changed. They now have traffic enforcement duties ( highway traffic act, environmental protection act, liquor control/DUI, etc ) Most of the time you would see them transporting prisoners to and from jail and courts, guarding certain provincial buildings. They also preform special security tasks for the province as they have taken over the couthouse security from the RCMP so they can get more officers on the road.


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## CBH99 (8 Feb 2007)

When I mentioned armed, yes - they have always been armed.  Was referring moreso to the traffic section, which now has their secondary/support arms.  (Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is new as of Jan. 1, 2007).  ??


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## bisonmedic (9 Feb 2007)

The ASD would probably have the pump action shotgun as a secondary weapon like most other police services. As for investigating offences, they can investigate offences that they have a mandate for ie; traffic accidents with no injured persons, controlled substances,etc, as for fedral laws I am thinking that they can only assist the RCMP or other services by holding the accused until the formentioned services were called. I would try the Alberta Soliciter General website for more info on that.


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## Inspir (12 Feb 2007)

bisonmedic said:
			
		

> The ASD would probably have the pump action shotgun as a secondary weapon like most other police services. As for investigating offences, they can investigate offences that they have a mandate for ie; traffic accidents with no injured persons, controlled substances,etc, as for fedral laws I am thinking that they can only assist the RCMP or other services by holding the accused until the formentioned services were called. I would try the Alberta Soliciter General website for more info on that.



Just had an opportunity to speak with a Traffic Sergeant this past weekend about the ASD traffic section. Primary weapon is a Glock 22 and secondary weapon is a variant of the M4 Carbine. Your bang on with there scope of authority, when a Sheriff makes an arrest for a criminal code offense they do so with the power of s.494 CCC as opposed to s.495 (which a cop would use) and hand them over to the local police. 

Another interesting note, almost all of the Traffic Sheriffs have at least 15 years average policing experience with another police agency.


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