# Lift-The-Dot fasteners...



## chrisf (22 Sep 2007)

Alright, perhaps this is a silly or naive question, but what's the problem with "Lift-The-Dot" fasteners?

They seem to be quite prevelent on military kit produced in the mid 20th century, then they just sort of disapear in the later half of the 20 century...

Aside from the potential for corrosion, I can't for the life of me figure out why we're not using them today, they seem to be at least as (Perhaps more being made of metal rather then brittle plsatic) durable, and almost (or at least) as secure as the plastic bayonet fasteners everything uses now. They don't seem to be much louder then the plastic buckles...

Just curious, why did these die out? Any thoughts? I can see a few faults, primarily potential for corrosion, and difficulty in replacing a worn out fastener, but is there any other glaring fault I'm missing? They seem like an idea fastener for belt pouches and the like, rather then the customary velcro...


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## scas (22 Sep 2007)

In my use, they never we very easy to attach and detach. especially with with gloves on.


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## chrisf (22 Sep 2007)

scas said:
			
		

> In my use, they never we very easy to attach and detach. especially with with gloves on.



I don't know if we're talking about the same fasteners (Not "snap" fasteners which look rather much like smarties when closed, but the life the dot fasteners... they've got a female piece which looks rather much like a donut, then a male piece which goes all the way through the female piece, there's two pieces of wire inside the female piece, which lock into a grooved slot in the female piece) ... the only piece of kit I've got at the moment with a lift the dot fastener is my dag pouch (Leather pouch holding a pair of diagonal cutters... you'll usually see linemen and LCIS techs with these pouches) but they're pretty easy to open with gloves on... just yank... closing is a bit more difficult, but no worse then plastic bayonet fasteners...

P.S. "Lift-The-Dot" is the trade name of these fasteners.


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## Loachman (22 Sep 2007)

Perhaps because they tend to pull out of thinner fabrics.

Perhaps because the plastic side-release type have more applications, requiring fewer different parts to be ordered and stocked.

Perhaps because of the relative costs of the fasteners.

Perhaps because of the relative cost of installation.

http://canvasdealer.com/snaps.aspx shows different types and costs.


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## Matt_Fisher (22 Sep 2007)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Alright, perhaps this is a silly or naive question, but what's the problem with "Lift-The-Dot" fasteners?
> 
> They seem to be quite prevelent on military kit produced in the mid 20th century, then they just sort of disapear in the later half of the 20 century...
> 
> ...



You're referring to the 'old school' type snaps that you find on the CF Para/Jump Smock, right?  If that's the case, then the major reason why most specifications have moved away from dictating their use is that the 'Lift The Dot' snaps are not as durable as regular snaps; the stud portion of it has a tendency to get bent, or snap over time, rendering the fastener N/S.  Additionally, from a manufacturing standpoint, they're fairly labour intensive to attach to the piece of gear.  Other technologies have arisen that make it faster and more cost effective to attach conventional snaps, or other attachment hardware rather than the large amount of manual work needed to be performed with the snaps you're discussing.


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## DirtyDog (22 Sep 2007)

The issue 2 point C7 sling uses such a fastener.I know I've seen it on other pieces of kit, but I can't recall specifics.


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## Sig_Des (23 Sep 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> The issue 2 point C7 sling uses such a fastener.I know I've seen it on other pieces of kit, but I can't recall specifics.



Those are snap fasteners.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Sep 2007)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Those are snap fasteners.



Pull the dot domed snap fasteners also exist. I installed plenty as a 531.


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## Farmboy (23 Sep 2007)

You mean on the issue POS 3 point sling.

The issue 2 point sling is just webbing and a couple tri glides


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## DirtyDog (23 Sep 2007)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Pull the dot domed snap fasteners also exist. I installed plenty as a 531.


Ah yes, I confused "pull" from "lift".


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## DirtyDog (23 Sep 2007)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> You mean on the issue POS 3 point sling.
> 
> The issue 2 point sling is just webbing and a couple tri glides



Yep, I meant 3 point.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Sep 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Ah yes, I confused "pull" from "lift".



Same same. No biggy.


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## DropZone (28 Sep 2007)

Gentlemen,

In the interest of clarification, its time for the old balding fart to weigh in on this one. The "lift or pull the dot snap" or more correctly called "dome fastener" actually had a dimple on the cap. The dimple was the "dot". The dimple or dot was an indication of the leaverage point. One would lift at the dimple to release the fastener. This "lifting point" would infact prevent accidental opening which was common to dome fasteners of the era.

"lift the dot" should not be confused with the Dot brand which is a trademark of a dome fastener brand.

Recceguy is correct. They are still around. The biggest drawback as mentioned earlier is the high cost of use in manufacturing now that the side release buckle is available.

The other problems with them were freezing and failure to close (or open) when the mechinism failed...and trust me when they failed while closed, they would not open without destryoing the pouch.

The fasteners on the "para smocks" are not "dots" but refered to as "stud" fasteners. (and no its not a reference to those that wore the smock ;D)

I hope this helps...

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon


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## riggermade (28 Sep 2007)

DropZone said:
			
		

> Gentlemen,
> 
> 
> The other problems with them were freezing and failure to close (or open) when the mechinism failed...and trust me when they failed while closed, they would not open without destryoing the pouch.
> ...



Brian is right, from a person who has had alot of experience with these they were a pain to replace and nothing worse than not being able to open during a JM check

That is why our chest mount reseves switched to velcro


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