# Unique Regimental Traditions



## jranrose (26 Oct 2006)

I am curious. Does your regiment have any unique regimental traditions that other regiments don’t? I remember being a young royal in battle school (RCR) and being taught a different way of doing the halt. It looked very sharp and distinctive, where the right foot shoots forward then comes back.  Also our company names where also different. For example “A” Coy was the Duke of Edinburgh Company, “B” Coy was the City of London Company and “C” Coy was always referred to as Charles Company. I also remember 4RCR wearing the white hackle due to the merging of the London and Oxford Fusiliers and Royal Regiment of Fusiliers to form 4RCR. Although I don’t know if they still wear them or why it changed. Also M/Cpl’s and above wore Artillery whistle and lanyards on their left shoulder of their combat dress. Rumor has it that the regiment earned the right to wear them after the Artillery abandoned their guns and RCR cooks manned the guns after they retreated. The Regiment also has a relationship with “A” bty 1RCHA where the regimental cipher is worn on the guns. I would like to here your input on your regimental customs and traditions.
Cheers


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## paracowboy (26 Oct 2006)

try combining The RCR halt with the PPCLI Right Dress. I almost broke m'damn leg!

The RCR has Pachino Day, PPCLI has the French Grey Cup. There's a host of other similarities/differences.


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## 3rd Herd (26 Oct 2006)

Since the regiments inception "First into Battle"


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## navymich (26 Oct 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> try combining The RCR halt with the PPCLI Right Dress. I almost broke m'damn leg!



I had heard about the RCR halt, and got the chance to see it recently while doing drill practice on my ILQ.  But what is the PPCLI Right Dress?  I haven't heard about that before.


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## paracowboy (26 Oct 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> I had heard about the RCR halt, and got the chance to see it recently while doing drill practice on my ILQ.  But what is the PPCLI Right Dress?  I haven't heard about that before.


there's an extra stomp thrown in there, just before you scuttle back to line off with the marker. When it's done right, it looks/sounds really sharp. When you have an ex-Royal thrown into the mix, with no previous warning, it's damn ugly. Poor RSM didn't know whether to laugh or just beat me to death. He settled for a loud groan, and a threatening look.


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## davidk (26 Oct 2006)

For some reason, we do both a PPCLI right dress and an RCR halt.

Any RCR's know when that halt was added to your drill? I'm curious whether it started with you or it came along with all the RHC guys when the two RegF battalions were reduced to nil strength.


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## seaforth93 (26 Oct 2006)

The whistle is called a "rap" (sp?) whistle. It is the prerogative of leaders (NCO and Officers) within line infantry regiments to wear one on a lanyard over the left shoulder. It has nothing to do with battle honours and less to do with the artillery. It is simply for communications during battle.

This whistle is not exclusive to line infantry as it can also be seen on Rifle infantry and other arms, however in the case of the RCR lanyard it is a holdover.

With thanks to Mike Dorosh CD
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/mediawiki-1.5.5/index.php?title=Lanyard#History


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## medicineman (26 Oct 2006)

An odd tradition in the Medical Branch is we're not supposed to have fixed bayonets on parade and officers are to keep their swords sheathed.  Having said that, it's conveniently ignored alot, especially when on parade with a combat arms unit, as heaven forfend if we don't all look alike  ;D.

At one point in 1 Fd Amb, we weren't even issued them for field use - on GOC's one chilly morning, I was asked if I had all my EIS and answered yes sir.  The Brigade Commander then asked me if I had all my EIS, then where was my bayonet?  I told him that despite us having them in the RQ, we weren't actually issued them.  I then added that they are considered offensive weapons, but only after my CO went a funny colour of white/grey.  The RSM was laughing his hole off...

MM


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## armyvern (26 Oct 2006)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I told him that despite us having them in the RQ, we weren't actually issued them.  I then added that they are considered offensive weapons, but only after my CO went a funny colour of white/grey.  The RSM was laughing his hole off...
> MM



I know you, and am picturing this, and am laughing too.


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## a_majoor (26 Oct 2006)

WRT the white "Hackle" for 4 RCR, it was a holdover from the "Canadian Fusiliers" (City of London Regiment), and all white to match the sister "City of London Regiment" (which I believe was the 11th Fusiliers). The hackle was a bit of an anomaly anyway, Fusiliers generally wear "Plumes" which enhance the stature of the troop wearing them (a bit of psyops from the black powder era). All white really has no meaning other than a unit identifier, each Fusilier regiment used to have a different colour tip to the plume.

I am saddened that reminders of unique historical associations like the hackle were allowed to be dropped, the corporate identity of 4 RCR includes the "Canadian Fusiliers", the "Oxford Rifles", the "Perth Regiment" (sadly struck from the order of battle), and the 3rd Machine Gun Battalion. One can only imagine what sort of finery would be possible if some accoutrement of every predecessor regiment was represented on the current DEU's ; the Regimental Adjt and the unit RSM would certainly have a field day.


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## Michael OLeary (26 Oct 2006)

For The RCR:

Perpetuated Militia Regiments and Battalions of the CEF are listed here - http://thercr.ca/history/general_history/perpetuation.htm
More details on the CEF Battalions here - http://thercr.ca/history/general_history/perpetuation_of_cef_units.htm

The Perth Regiment connection is an informal one, based on the number of troops that joined the 3rd Battalion in 1965 when the perths were disbanded.  It is, therefore, a connection of similar importance to remember as part of our history as that of the Regiment's connections to the Black Watch and the Canadian Guards.

Customs and Traditions:

Website page - http://thercr.ca/customs_and_traditions.htm
Regimental Standing Orders - http://thercr.ca/rcr_publications/rso/05_rso-chap_5_2003.doc


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## Haggis (27 Oct 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> there's an extra stomp thrown in there, just before you scuttle back to line off with the marker. When it's done right, it looks/sounds really sharp. When you have an ex-Royal thrown into the mix, with no previous warning, it's damn ugly. Poor RSM didn't know whether to laugh or just beat me to death. He settled for a loud groan, and a threatening look.



1 RCR used that "stomp" in the mid/late 70's.  Don't know exactly when it died, but when I went to the Hill (the pre ski-mask one) in '81 I was a treated as a drill heretic in the eyes of a certain Patrica Sgt-Maj.


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## medicineman (27 Oct 2006)

Thinking about hackles, I had the pleasure to be part of a Trooping of the Colour with 2RCR in 2002 when the Batallion received it's new Queen's Colour.  We had several reserve augmentees on the parade, many from the PLF in Halifax.  They were categorically told to remove their plumes/hackles from their berets when they showed up for the full dress rehearsal and again reremindedhe night of the real parade.  I thought this as rather disdainful (as myself and my other medic buddy stood there with our bayonets fixed) to their Regimental traditions (and ours).  Surprising in some ways when one considers where it came from.  Oh yeah - we had to perfect that goose step/stomp (well I did for certain, as my parade position was right in front of the CO) and actually exaggerate it while doing our right and left forms.

MM


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## PPCLI Guy (27 Oct 2006)

We eat our weak.

Does that count?


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## RangerRay (27 Oct 2006)

Ram's p!$$.  ;D :-X


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## old medic (27 Oct 2006)

medicineman said:
			
		

> ....(as myself and my other medic buddy stood there with our bayonets fixed) .....



Astounding.  Simply astounding.


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## Trooper Hale (27 Oct 2006)

Speaking of the right dress, i'm pretty sure the RCD's dont do anything special with it but it certainly made me look like a knob a couple of times. I was expecting our drill wouldnt be too dissimilier when i formed up for our morning roll call. "Attention" was a doddle although you chaps lift the foot and put more pressure coming down then we do and then came "Righhhhtttt DRESS!" and every one took 2 or 3 steps back! 
There i am in the same spot with my head snapped around to the side getting bumped into by the bloke in front of me! Not a great way to start my exchange now was it?

While all the young digs did the Halt the same, i was really interested in the SSM's and senior NCO's little foot slide. I didnt get around to asking any one about that except to find out (according to the boys) that it was what they were technically supposed to do but simply didnt.
I know its something you folks all see as simple and a tad off topic but anyone know what the deal with that foot slide is? Also the Right dress, is that a Canadian thing or have we Aussies just slack with our drill?


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## xo31@711ret (27 Oct 2006)

We eat our weak.

'We bury our mistakes'  

   Militi Succurrimus    "We hasten to aid the soldiors"

-gerry


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## 211RadOp (27 Oct 2006)

davidhmd said:
			
		

> Ahem... the SigsPig... http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49255.0.html



Technically this is not a Regimental tradition. This is usually only done on tour. But what fun that is... ;D


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## 245SiegeBtyRCA (28 Oct 2006)

It is tradition that  the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery when on parade is taken over while standing at ease vice at attention.

It is said that the tradition derives following the Battle of Waterloo when Lord Wellington arrived to inspect the guns, the gunners were completely worn out from their efforts that he had them remain at ease.


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## a_majoor (28 Oct 2006)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> We eat our weak.
> 
> Does that count?



No, but you should start counting the calories and fat intake from what you are eating  ;D ;D ;D


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## jranrose (28 Oct 2006)

245SiegeBtyRCA said:
			
		

> It is tradition that  the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery when on parade is taken over while standing at ease vice at attention.
> 
> It is said that the tradition derives following the Battle of Waterloo when Lord Wellington arrived to inspect the guns, the gunners were completely worn out from their efforts that he had them remain at ease.



Does the Gunnery instructors still wear the old khaki forage cap with a red band?


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## Good2Golf (28 Oct 2006)

Haggis said:
			
		

> 1 RCR used that "stomp" in the mid/late 70's.  Don't know exactly when it died, but when I went to the Hill (the pre ski-mask one) in '81 I was a treated as a drill heretic in the eyes of *a certain Patrica Sgt-Maj*.



Baumgarten?


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## geo (28 Oct 2006)

Pte D. Krystal said:
			
		

> For some reason, we do both a PPCLI right dress and an RCR halt.
> Any RCR's know when that halt was added to your drill? I'm curious whether it started with you or it came along with all the RHC guys when the two RegF battalions were reduced to nil strength.


The Watch does not do an RCR Halt.
They use a "drag step" and that has everything to do with the wearing of a kilt.
Regular halt has the kilt going all over the place. The drag keeps the hem down


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## geo (28 Oct 2006)

Engineer traditions?
- 1st into trouble & last one out
- Scruffy sapper
- No Regimental colours (cause they don't make officers big enough to carry a flag big enough to carry all the battle honours we'd be entitled to wear)
- Modesty above all.............


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## brihard (29 Oct 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Regular halt has the kilt going all over the place. The drag keeps the hem down



First off, anyone making the obvious 'drag' joke gets to swallow their teeth.  ;D

Aside from that, I've always kind of figured that flying kilts were why we always get such a good audience for our parades. Some priorities must be maintained. But on a serious note, I've not found the kilt to really go up too much on a normal halt- the material is quite heavy. If it does, well, so be it. I'm pretty sure the supreme court would rule it as 'art'.


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## geo (29 Oct 2006)

thinking about it, I would venture to say that the RCR adopted the "drag step" when the took in the 1st and 2nd Bn, Black Watch in 1968.

Brihard.... no need to be testy about the drag thing...... it is what it is.


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## vonGarvin (29 Oct 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> - No Regimental colours (cause they don't make officers big enough to carry a flag big enough to carry all the battle honours we'd be entitled to wear)


I thought "Ubique" said it all?


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## geo (29 Oct 2006)

Ayup..... 
Ubique to the Engineers = everywhere

Ubique to the Gunners = all over the place 


:warstory:


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## vonGarvin (29 Oct 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Ayup.....
> Ubique to the Engineers = everywhere
> 
> Ubique to the Gunners = all over the place
> ...



:rofl:

You win!


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## Loachman (31 Oct 2006)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The Perth Regiment connection is an informal one, based on the number of troops that joined the 3rd Battalion in 1965 when the perths were disbanded.



There was some bitterness in not being recognized in the "new" name. T Coy, 4 RCR still considered itself Perthish when I joined in 1973 and always maintained a bit of an independent streak. Stratford was always 'The Perth Garrison" as well, as in "Perth Garrison Offers' Mess", even afterward. And I believe that it was more of a rebadging than a "number of troops that joined the 3rd Battalion". Same Armoury, same guys.

The Oxford Rifles contingent died out at the end of the sixties or beginning of the seventies with the closure of the Woodstock Armoury and disbandment of the Woodstock company. Some of those guys continued to parade in Stratford, and we always seemed to be able to recruit more in Woodstock than in Stratford during my time.

Funny that the title continues the name of county in which the unit maintains no presence, and ignores the one in which it does. It should be more like "4 RCR (Perth, London, and Oxford Regiment)".


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## dapaterson (31 Oct 2006)

... if we were to expand this thread to discuss CF traditions, we could examine the three traditions of the Royal Navy...

Although we've abandonned the lash, we're attempting to reduce alcohol consumption... I guess there's only one left!


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## geo (31 Oct 2006)

Oh.... Bugger!


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## jbeach95 (31 Oct 2006)

Loachman said:
			
		

> There was some bitterness in not being recognized in the "new" name. T Coy, 4 RCR still considered itself Perthish when I joined in 1973 and always maintained a bit of an independent streak. Stratford was always 'The Perth Garrison" as well, as in "Perth Garrison Offers' Mess", even afterward. And I believe that it was more of a rebadging than a "number of troops that joined the 3rd Battalion". Same Armoury, same guys.
> 
> The Oxford Rifles contingent died out at the end of the sixties or beginning of the seventies with the closure of the Woodstock Armoury and disbandment of the Woodstock company. Some of those guys continued to parade in Stratford, and we always seemed to be able to recruit more in Woodstock than in Stratford during my time.
> 
> Funny that the title continues the name of county in which the unit maintains no presence, and ignores the one in which it does. It should be more like "4 RCR (Perth, London, and Oxford Regiment)".



Actually, 4 RCR dropped "The London and Oxford Fusiliers" in 1989, so it is simply known as "the 4th Battalion, the Royal Canadian Regiment" with no reference to location.
Also, effective this past September, Stratford is no longer T Coy, but is simply 3 Pl, S Coy.


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## vonGarvin (31 Oct 2006)

JDB said:
			
		

> Also, effective this past September, Stratford is no longer T Coy, but is simply 3 Pl, S Coy.


I'll have to update my Regimental Catechism


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## Yeoman (1 Nov 2006)

JDB said:
			
		

> Actually, 4 RCR dropped "The London and Oxford Fusiliers" in 1989, so it is simply known as "the 4th Battalion, the Royal Canadian Regiment" with no reference to location.
> Also, effective this past September, Stratford is no longer T Coy, but is simply 3 Pl, S Coy.



you must be joking?
that's horrible.
we were a little bit more then a platoon when I was there I know that for a fact!
Greg


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## Loachman (1 Nov 2006)

Definitely revolting. T Coy always set the standard for the rest of the battalion to struggle and match.

If anything, the rest of the battalion should have become a platoon of T Coy.


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## Yeoman (5 Nov 2006)

damn straight! I was a tango tiger, not a seirria shit head haha.
now all this talk of royals, and you forget one thing of royals! DRAMBUIE! what's wrong with all my fellow pro pat boys?!? I know I'll be putting that down range next saturday.
Greg


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## George Wallace (16 Sep 2014)

Reviving an old topic.

Here is episode one of an old BBC series that looks into the traditions found in British units, and helps to explain the reasons and origins of some military traditions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W11BbX06_og

Episode two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvkxFwpmvTI

Episode three:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_qmO8EONJw

Episode four:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXKp9zowCVQ

Episode five:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfQsOfaVm48

Episode six:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dyd5sdjGWQ


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## Old EO Tech (12 Oct 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> There was some bitterness in not being recognized in the "new" name. T Coy, 4 RCR still considered itself Perthish when I joined in 1973 and always maintained a bit of an independent streak. Stratford was always 'The Perth Garrison" as well, as in "Perth Garrison Offers' Mess", even afterward. And I believe that it was more of a rebadging than a "number of troops that joined the 3rd Battalion". Same Armoury, same guys.
> 
> The Oxford Rifles contingent died out at the end of the sixties or beginning of the seventies with the closure of the Woodstock Armoury and disbandment of the Woodstock company. Some of those guys continued to parade in Stratford, and we always seemed to be able to recruit more in Woodstock than in Stratford during my time.
> 
> Funny that the title continues the name of county in which the unit maintains no presence, and ignores the one in which it does. It should be more like "4 RCR (Perth, London, and Oxford Regiment)".



Both the GGF and GF were Perth's, And I grew up in the area.  It is a fact that although the Perth Capbadge hangs above the parade square in the armouries, the Perth's Battle Honours were never given to the RCR, the Perth's decided to retire them rather than be amalgamated into another Regt.


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## McG (12 Oct 2014)

Careful.  In the current climate, this conversation is likely to see rebadging to bring back the Oxfords and Perths.


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Oct 2014)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Both the GGF and GF were Perth's, And I grew up in the area.  It is a fact that although the Perth Capbadge hangs above the parade square in the armouries,* the Perth's Battle Honours were never given to the RCR, the Perth's decided to retire them rather than be amalgamated into another Regt.*



That has spiteful Honouraries & Senates written all over it. I'll also bet that even though they retired them, they still celebrate them.


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## Old EO Tech (12 Oct 2014)

recceguy said:
			
		

> That has spiteful Honouraries & Senates written all over it. I'll also bet that even though they retired them, they still celebrate them.



Judging by this one FB group I'd say there is lots of pride still in the Fighting Perth's

https://www.facebook.com/groups/500239686718601/


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Oct 2014)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Judging by this one FB group I'd say there is lots of pride still in the Fighting Perth's
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/500239686718601/



I'm sure there are. However, that was not the point of my comment.


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## Michael OLeary (12 Oct 2014)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Both the GGF and GF were Perth's, And I grew up in the area.  It is a fact that although the Perth Capbadge hangs above the parade square in the armouries, the Perth's Battle Honours were never given to the RCR, the Perth's decided to retire them rather than be amalgamated into another Regt.



The Perrths had been subjected to an earlier amalgamation that did not work out, this may have contributed to the decision to place them on the Supplementary Order of Battle:

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/ol-lo/vol-tom-3/par2/pr-eng.asp



> On *1 October 1954, it was amalgamated* with the 'Highland Light Infantry of Canada' and redesignated 'The Perth and Waterloo Regiment (Highland Light Infantry of Canada)'. On *1 April 1957, these two regiments ceased to be amalgamated* and resumed their former designations. It was reduced to nil strength and transferred to the Supplementary Order of Battle on 28 February 1965.


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## exspy (12 Oct 2014)

MCG said:
			
		

> ....this conversation is likely to see rebadging to bring back the Oxfords and Perths.



The Oxford Rifles?  Highly unlikely.  They've been gone since 1954.  The Perth Regiment?  Well, they removed The Halifax Rifles from the Supplementary Order of Battle, so anything's possible.

I can remember that there was still a former Perth Regiment officer serving with us in 4RCR while I was there (1977-80).  His name was Tom Soper and he was a Captain parading out of Stratford.  At the regimental dinners when the regimental march of the Perth's was played, he'd jump to attention.  It was from The Perth Regiment that 4RCR acquired its Pipes and Drums.

Cheers,
Dan.

PS:  Am I the only one who doesn't know what GGF and GF stand for?


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## Michael OLeary (12 Oct 2014)

Dan M said:
			
		

> GGF and GF?



Great Grandfather
Grandfather


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## exspy (12 Oct 2014)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> ....the Perth's Battle Honours were never given to the RCR....



I don't recall The RCR ever asking that the Honours be given.



			
				Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> ....the Perth's decided to retire them rather than be amalgamated into another Regt.



True.  The Perth Regiment elected to be placed on the Supplementary Order of Battle rather than face amalgamation.  But maybe if the Perth's had chosen amalgamation with another Regiment, those Honours would still be celebrated today.

Cheers,
Dan.

PS: Thanks Mike.


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## Infanteer (13 Oct 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Reviving an old topic.
> 
> Here is episode one of an old BBC series that looks into the traditions found in British units, and helps to explain the reasons and origins of some military traditions:



Great link George, I watched these yesterday while recovering from my turkey hangover.

Interesting to note that, since this was filmed in 1989, almost none of these Regiments exist anymore.  There lineage is maintained by the current Regiments of the British Army, most of whom date from 1994 or 2006.  It is a bit odd that the oldest Regiment of the Line in the British Army is the Parachute Regiment (the Guards, however, still have centuries of unbroken service).  Low and behold, the British Army still exists and is an excellent fighting organization today, regardless of where the Emperor's Chamber Pot resides.


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## AJFitzpatrick (14 Oct 2014)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Low and behold, the British Army still exists and is an excellent fighting organization today, regardless of where the Emperor's Chamber Pot resides.



Indeed, recently visited the Scottish National War Memorial. There are many regimental Honour Rolls that are now closed but the Royal Regiment of Scotland's (est.  2006) honour roll is not empty.


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## daftandbarmy (14 Oct 2014)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Great link George, I watched these yesterday while recovering from my turkey hangover.
> 
> Interesting to note that, since this was filmed in 1989, almost none of these Regiments exist anymore.  There lineage is maintained by the current Regiments of the British Army, most of whom date from 1994 or 2006.  It is a bit odd that the oldest Regiment of the Line in the British Army is the Parachute Regiment (the Guards, however, still have centuries of unbroken service).  Low and behold, the British Army still exists and is an excellent fighting organization today, regardless of where the Emperor's Chamber Pot resides.



Largely because the Paras are so obnoxious that the Hats couldn't stand sharing a regiment with them (or survive the NAAFI brawls)  ;D


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