# "Canadian diamonds are no better than conflict diamonds from Africa."



## Michael OLeary (9 Dec 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2006/12/08/conflict-diamond.html


*First Nations leader slams Canadian diamonds*
Last Updated: Friday, December 8, 2006 | 12:18 PM ET
*CBC News*



> A First Nations group in Ontario is trying to dissuade Americans from buying Canadian diamonds this holiday season, saying the jewels are mined at the expense of its people.
> 
> Alvin Fiddler, deputy grand chief of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, said De Beers Canada in particular is causing environmental devastation and disrupting his community of 45,000 Cree and Ojibwa in northern Ontario.
> 
> ...


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## vonGarvin (9 Dec 2006)

Funny thing about "blood diamonds" (the latest craze of the Hollywood elite).  It was indeed a problem: 3 or 4 years ago, when some 17% of diamonds sold were of the so-called "blood" variety.  The problem has since subsided to the point where less than 1% sold are of that variety now.  (Source: TV show I watched last night, although I cannot remember the name).  Moral of this story was that some countries in Africa may suffer due to the movie due to perception: people won't buy diamonds of a certain nation (exact nation fails me right now), even though the diamond industry pumps bazillions into the national economy.

But that's OK: TomKat tm   can get married for billions as Africa starves, yet he will still get in your face on television for your hard earned money to help the unfortunate in the world.


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## GO!!! (9 Dec 2006)

I guess as soon as we wash away Mr. Fiddler's tears with an ocean of money, all will be right in the world - the environmental devastation will be acceptable, his people's poverty will be alleviated - just like how it worked accross the rest of the country.


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## George Wallace (9 Dec 2006)

The only way these would be considered "Blood Diamonds" is in the greed of the First Nations in putting this claim forward and their trying once again to get 'blood' out of the 'evil White man'.  These diamonds are coming from underground and Canadian Mineral Rights are such that Treaties have nothing to do with them.  The same goes for the Mineral Rights under everyone's property.  It is a greedy attempt by some to milk the corporations that have brought employment to their region.  The mining companies have gone out of their way to hire and train the locals to work in their mines at very good wages.  

This whole claim is BULL SHIT.  It is just outright GREED.  "Money for nothing" and giving all First Nations a bad name as if they were all greedy welfare recipients.


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## NCSnotty (9 Dec 2006)

There was a piece about blood diamonds (Dec. 5th) on TVO's "The Agenda."  In the context of Angola, Sierra Leone, etc., it referred to the use of slave labour to mine diamonds that were sold to buy arms for rebels.  I find the native leader's analogy...[insert adjective here].

http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/

There is also a new movie on this subject.  If you like Leonardo DiCaprio, enjoy!  However, the reviews say it's [insert a similar adjective here].

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/blood_diamond/


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## Sub_Guy (9 Dec 2006)

I got it, build a casino! That will smooth things over


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## Jacqueline (9 Dec 2006)

> A First Nations group in Ontario is trying to dissuade Americans from buying Canadian diamonds this holiday season, saying the jewels are mined at the expense of its people.



I don't think the First Nations are trying to get any money out of this. I think it is an actual concern. So, because it's a Native issue, it has to be connected with welfare and money? 

The one group is trying to dissuade Americans from buying Canadian diamonds. American interest in diamonds would be an asset to the group if they wanted money.


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## Kat Stevens (9 Dec 2006)

Okay, if nobody buys the rocks, layoffs happen.  Local people, FN included, go without cash, and starve, and go on EI/welfare.  What good does this do the poor exploited peoples?  Not a GD bit, that's what.


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## Pearson (9 Dec 2006)

Miss Jacqueline said:
			
		

> I don't think the First Nations are trying to get any money out of this.



"People are paying a price for these diamonds and it's our people in the Nishnawbe Aski Nation. Our people, our children, are languishing in poverty while these resources are being extracted from their territory."
Fiddler said the diamond company should stop work until the government settles the land claims.



			
				Miss Jacqueline said:
			
		

> I think it is an actual concern.



What is the concern?
Causing environmental devastation and disrupting his community?


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## SprCForr (9 Dec 2006)

I wonder which actor-vist will adopt this cause?


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## Armymedic (9 Dec 2006)

Where exactly is this mine, and how is it causing damage to the enviroment? Also how can a huge employer such as a new mine hurt the economy of his region?


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## Jacqueline (9 Dec 2006)

> author=Frankie link=topic=54383/post-493285#msg493285 date=1165719351
> What is the concern?Causing environmental devastation and disrupting his community?



Well, yes. That is what it looks like to me.


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## Pearson (9 Dec 2006)

Frankie said:
			
		

> "People are paying a price for these diamonds and it's our people in the Nishnawbe Aski Nation. Our people, our children, are languishing in poverty while these resources are being extracted from their territory."



This was enough of a concern for a couple lines in the article.


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## R933ex (9 Dec 2006)

The only production diamonds from Canada are from:
A)	Ekati a BHP mine with heavy involvement and commitment from both the Dhe-cho 
B)	Diavik <again heavy first nations involvement> 
C)	Snap Lake <De Beers Canada> also has some production as does the Tehara mine. 

Currently all southern mines are years away from any production, so right now a boycott would only effect the North and mostly first nations. By the way having been involved in training workers for the mines, working at the mines and also spending some time in the Gold mines, the Diamond guys are the only ones who have a clear plan for remediation the sites once completed and recognition the first nations groups are the "guardians of the land"


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## Brad Sallows (10 Dec 2006)

>saying the jewels are mined at the expense of its people.

>"People are paying a price for these diamonds and it's our people in the Nishnawbe Aski Nation. Our people, our children, are languishing in poverty while these resources are being extracted from their territory."

The concern is that they're not getting what they perceive to be their cut of the profits.  (I don't know whether they own the rights to the diamonds or not.)


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## Jacqueline (10 Dec 2006)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> The concern is that they're not getting what they perceive to be their cut of the profits.  (I don't know whether they own the rights to the diamonds or not.)



How do you know this for sure?


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## Shec (10 Dec 2006)

This is spurious.  Why?  Simply because Canada requires companies to negotiate impacts benefits agreements with First Nations whether a claim is signed or not.   IBA's cover a whole host of subjects from direct employment to service and supply contracts to scholarship funds to environmental co- management regimes.

The Ekati mine is the precedent and the model.  BHP (the company)  and the Dogrib people entered into an IBA before the the Dogrib claim was settled.   In fact the process of negotiating an IBA may have even contributed to the settling of the claim because it was a confidence building measure as Canada demanded the IBA be negotiated and covered the costs of the Dogrib negotiation team but did not participate in it.  As a matter of fact Canada has not even (officially) seen the IBA.

The real problem here is that several FN communities can't coalesce amongst themselves to develop a negotiating position but don't want to lose face so they deflect the real issue.

.


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## TCBF (10 Dec 2006)

It's all good - Whitey will pay.

 ;D


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## Burrows (10 Dec 2006)

If they want money they can get a job.  They already get their tax-exemption cards, native status, and money from the government, we get none of this and we manage to "scrape by". :


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## Jacqueline (10 Dec 2006)

Kyle Burrows said:
			
		

> If they want money they can get a job.



Exactly. If they want money they'll get a job.


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## Troop Suporter (10 Dec 2006)

Miss Jacqueline said:
			
		

> I don't think the First Nations are trying to get any money out of this. I think it is an actual concern. So, because it's a Native issue, it has to be connected with welfare and money?
> 
> The one group is trying to dissuade Americans from buying Canadian diamonds. American interest in diamonds would be an asset to the group if they wanted money.



<i>I don't think the First Nations are trying to get any money out of this. I think it is an actual concern.</i>

No more than it is for the rest of us. We only own the surface of our properties. The government can sell the mining rights to anyone, and there's not a darn thing we can do about it as property owners.

<i>American interest in diamonds would be an asset to the group if they wanted money. </i>
It seems the First Nations are fighting this simply because they are not getting a cut.


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## Jacqueline (10 Dec 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> This continual bitching by native Canadians is REALLY starting to make my blood boil to dangerous bloody levels.



Is it native Canadians, or just bitching in general? Because someone is always bitching.




			
				Piper said:
			
		

> so why do natives get special treatment???????



This may be off topic,  but you should ask someone in government.


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## Strike (10 Dec 2006)

Shec,

You bring up a very good point.

A mine doesn't just open.  Before anything happens all those who might be affected are contacted and discussion begin.  It's all part of the environmental assessment which is mantatory for projects such as this.  Talks are a big part of every EA.  So, why didn't the band bring uo the issues at the beginning?  Or contact other bands that have had mining issues to deal with?

It looks as if someone is p.o.'d because they're not getting what they feel they deserve.  Sure, maybe there's a point there.  But sometimes you have to step up and do the work yourself and stop relying on everyone else to solve your problems.  This should have been done during the planning phase.

Sorry.  No sympathy here.  There was a chance to do something, and it wasn't taken.  Who's to blame for that?


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## The Bread Guy (10 Dec 2006)

Because of my day job  , I offer information, and no opinion....

The only proposed diamond mine in the Nishnawbe-Aski Nation territory is the Victor Project (Victor Project: Factsheet) near Attawapiskat First Nation - see map below.  Groundbreaking for the project took place in June 2006 according to this news release.

"The Victor Project, currently in construction, will create 375 full time jobs during operations. Over 300 First Nation people have worked on the project so far. The GDP effect on northeastern Ontario is estimated to be $4.2 billon and the cumulative GDP effect for the province is $6.7 billion ....  De Beers is investing $2 billion in Canada to develop two diamond mines concurrently. These will be the company's first mines outside of Africa. The Snap Lake project in the NWT is scheduled to begin production in fall 2007 and Victor in fall 2008."

As someone else mentioned, an Impact Benefit Agreement has been ratified by the First Nation, according to this news release:

''In a ratification vote held on June 21, 2005 involving both on-reserve and off-reserve members of the First Nation, 85.5% voted in support of the agreement. Shirley Gagnon, a community member who was the Head Negotiator for Attawapiskat was pleased with the turnout. "We tried very hard to ensure that our members had sufficient information to make an informed choice. While it proved a real challenge to track down the off-reserve members, both the on and off-reserve turnout exceeded our expectations." ....  Commenting on the agreement, the Chief of the Attawapiskat First Nation, Mike Carpenter, said: "Our people have had a great deal to consider in the negotiation and ratification process for this agreement. We wanted to ensure that we had a sound and fair agreement which would provide long-term benefits for our First Nation. While there are still concerns over the impact of the project, the people have decided that the significant long term benefits for our community and our children outweigh the risks." ''

Canada has provided some funding to assist the First Nation in gaining benefits from the proposed mine - details here:

''The Government of Canada (19 Aug 05) announced $363,300 in funding to Attawapiskat First Nation for economic development and environmental initiatives arising from potential diamond mining in the area. These activities range from environmental assessment work to exploration of business development opportunities with private sector partners and James Bay Coast First Nations  ....  Chief Mike Carpenter said, “Creating wealth helps more than just the community of Attawapiskat and people living in our area. Future economic development activities can also benefit the economies of Ontario and Canada.”  This funding, provided by Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, is assisting Attawapiskat First Nation in:  negotiating with De Beers Canada regarding economic benefits resulting from the planned mining activities including employment, training, and financial compensation; working with other First Nations to develop enhanced air service in the Hudson Bay and James Bay area in anticipation of the planned diamond mine and associated activities; and 
community consultation and consensus-building with respect to the environmental assessment for the proposed Victor diamond mine.''

Discussion, carry on....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Dec 2006)

Aww folks, the clock rang and it was time for a " Native" story on CBC and they went looking for a malcontent to give them his version of any stupid story that then became a Canadian Native thingy against Uncle Sam thingy......yada, etc., yada.....run with it,..yada, etc, yada,......


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (11 Dec 2006)

Let's look into the oilpatch in Alberta where they are considering importing workers from China or Mexico -  www.canadianbusiness.com/managing/employees/article.jsp?content=20060522_77876_77876.

Looks to me like some of our First Nations citizens could easily get into that market and prosper...


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## Jacqueline (11 Dec 2006)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> ''In a ratification vote held on June 21, 2005 involving both on-reserve and off-reserve members of the First Nation, 85.5% voted in support of the agreement. Shirley Gagnon, a community member who was the Head Negotiator for Attawapiskat was pleased with the turnout. "We tried very hard to ensure that our members had sufficient information to make an informed choice. While it proved a real challenge to track down the off-reserve members, both the on and off-reserve turnout exceeded our expectations." ....  Commenting on the agreement, the Chief of the Attawapiskat First Nation, Mike Carpenter, said: "Our people have had a great deal to consider in the negotiation and ratification process for this agreement. We wanted to ensure that we had a sound and fair agreement which would provide long-term benefits for our First Nation. While there are still concerns over the impact of the project, the people have decided that the significant long term benefits for our community and our children outweigh the risks." ''




If 85.5% of on/off recerve Natives voted yes, in support of the ratification agreement then the remaining percentage must be the ones who are complaining and not a separate or particular band.




> Shirley Gagnon, a community member who was the Head Negotiator for Attawapiskat was pleased with the turnout. "We tried very hard to ensure that our members had sufficient information to make an informed choice. While it proved a real challenge to track down the off-reserve members, both the on and off-reserve turnout exceeded our expectations." ....


  

I know her.  ;D




> "The Victor Project, currently in construction, will create 375 full time jobs during operations. Over 300 First Nation people have worked on the project so far. The GDP effect on northeastern Ontario is estimated to be $4.2 billon and the cumulative GDP effect for the province is $6.7 billion ....  De Beers is investing $2 billion in Canada to develop two diamond mines concurrently. These will be the company's first mines outside of Africa. The Snap Lake project in the NWT is scheduled to begin production in fall 2007 and Victor in fall 2008."





> ''The Government of Canada (19 Aug 05) announced $363,300 in funding to Attawapiskat First Nation for economic development and environmental initiatives arising from potential diamond mining in the area.



I think 2$ billion dollars benefit outweighs $363,300 in funding. It would be funding for making more money.


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## The Bread Guy (11 Dec 2006)

A bit more, from the main company doing the exploring and development, presented without comment for information purposes only....

*De Beers and diamonds are good for Canada's Aboriginal communities *  
News release, 8 Dec 06

   TORONTO, Dec. 8 /CNW/ - De Beers contributes to sustainable communities
and economies wherever we operate and we are proud of the relationships we
have developed in the countries where we produce diamonds. We believe that
meaningful consultation is required to develop mutual trust and long-term
cooperative relationships with Aboriginal communities. We prioritize
communication and consultation with communities throughout the life-cycle of
our diamond projects.
    De Beers has signed a range of agreements with Aboriginal communities
across Canada, including Nishnawbe Aski Nation communities, which cover early
and advanced exploration, mine construction and production. These agreements
set out the work to be undertaken, our environmental and cultural commitments
as well as how communities can participate in, and benefit from, our projects.
    De Beers is fully committed to the highest environmental standards, and
to this end, we have received ISO 140001 certification for the environmental
management systems at all of our projects and operations in Canada. Our Snap
Lake and Victor projects have undergone very thorough environmental assessment
processes which included extensive community consultation. The input we
received during the consultation with local Aboriginal communities,
particularly in the area of Traditional Ecological Knowledge, has resulted in
improvements in our mine designs.
    Our contribution to communities goes beyond that which is set out in
agreements. In Canada over the last three years De Beers has contributed over
$2 million in social investment with a focus on Aboriginal literacy, education
and training; all of this before we have started production in Canada.
    Over the last four years we have spent over $300 000 to provide 19,000
new books to school children in remote Aboriginal communities. In addition, we
are investing $500,000 over five years in the Lt. Governor's Aboriginal
Literacy Summer Camps in Northern Ontario.
    We have built an $800,000 training centre in Attawapiskat in Northern
Ontario which is being used to ensure that the people of this community are
well prepared for the employment opportunities offered by the Victor Mine. In
the Northwest Territories we provided $500,000 for the initial development of
the Kimberlite Career and Technical Centre in Yellowknife and we have
partnered with our contractors at the Snap Lake project to provide a further
$750,000 for the expansion of this successful training centre.
    "We see local Aboriginal communities as vital partners in any mining
project we develop. To this end, we are committed to working with communities
to maximize opportunities for local employment and the development of local
Aboriginal businesses as suppliers and contractors to our mining projects,"
said Jim Gowans, President and CEO of De Beers Canada Inc.
    From exploration through production, the diamond industry is bringing
employment and economic growth, training and education, and business
opportunities for remote Aboriginal communities in Canada. De Beers will
continue to live up to the highest ethical and business principles in its
dealings with Aboriginal peoples and all levels of government in Canada.
Diamonds are Forever. Diamonds are for Good.


    Background note to editors:
    ---------------------------

    Leaders across Canada have publicly recognized the value of diamonds for
    Canada:

    <<
    -  Prime Minister Stephen Harper, August 17, 2006, at the grand opening
       of Tahera Diamond Corporation's Jericho mine in Nunavut: Mines like
       Jericho are making Canada one of the largest and most important
       diamond producers in the world. There are currently 180 employed at
       this mine. This type of success will help build a new North, paving
       the way for new and exciting business enterprises.

    -  Prime Minister Stephen Harper, July 14, 2006 address to UK Chamber of
       Commerce: A decade ago Canadian diamonds were only a gleam in a
       prospector's eye. Today there are three producing mines and two more
       in development. And the Royal Bank predicts diamonds will bring over
       30 billion pounds (almost C$70 billion) to the Canadian economy over
       the next 25 years.

    -  Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, June 2006: The Victor diamond project
       is great news for the people of Attawapiskat and the surrounding
       region. De Beers' investment here means more than just new jobs. It
       will provide opportunities for families, local businesses and First
       Nation communities.

    -  Joe Rabesca, former Grand Chief of the Tlicho First Nation, NWT,
       March 30, 2006: When we negotiated our first IBA (Impact Benefit
       Agreement negotiated with BHP Billiton Ekati Diamond Mine), we focused
       on jobs and employment for our people. When the second diamond mine
       was developed (Diavik Diamond Mine), the IBA we negotiated focused on
       business opportunities. This agreement with De Beers (for the Snap
       Lake Project) provides Tlicho citizens with new opportunities to get
       their strength from the land through the programs and services that
       our government will be able to offer.

    -  Honorable Ethel Blondin-Andrew, former Minister of State (Northern
       Development), February 3, 2005: The Northwest Territories Industrial
       Mining Skills Strategy directly opens the door to a wide range of
       rewarding careers in the mining industry and enables Aboriginal
       communities to take full advantage of the exciting employment
       opportunities arising in the NWT's expanding diamond mining industry.
       The diamond industry has given Aboriginal communities in the North
       plenty of optimism for the future.

    World leaders have publicly recognized the value of diamonds for southern
    Africa:

    -  Nelson Mandela: "The diamond industry is vital to the southern African
       economy" (17th November 1999)

    -  Thabo Mbeki, 17th November 2004: "We know that diamonds are a valued
       source of employment, foreign exchange, tax revenue, new investments
       and play a positive role in enhancing the overall economic well being
       of countries and local communities"

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "For our people, every diamond purchase
       represents food on the table; better living conditions; better
       healthcare; safe drinking water; more roads to connect our remote
       communities and much more" (7th June 2006)

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "We have prudently used the revenues from
       diamonds to build a modern nation and a vibrant economy"
       (7th June 2006)

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "It is thanks to diamonds...that we have
       seen our country transform from one of the poorest in the world at
       Independence, to the middle income status that it has now attained"
       (7th June 2006)

    -  President Mogae of Botswana: "I urge you to continue supporting us by
       buying more and more diamonds because for us the joy of your
       celebrations with diamonds is also our joy" (7th June 2006)
    >>

For further information: Linda Dorrington, Manager, Public and Corporate
Affairs, De Beers Canada Inc., Tel: (416) 645-1710 ext 2107, Cell: (416)
818-2254, Email: linda.dorrington@ca.debeersgroup.com


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## Brad Sallows (11 Dec 2006)

>The concern is that they're not getting what they perceive to be their cut of the profits.  (I don't know whether they own the rights to the diamonds or not.)

>How do you know this for sure?

How else do you interpret, "Our people, our children, are languishing in poverty while these resources are being extracted from their territory."?


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## Jacqueline (11 Dec 2006)

I just don't see how this is a gig to get dollars.

Would they be so stupid to word it like that?


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## GO!!! (12 Dec 2006)

Miss Jacqueline said:
			
		

> I just don't see how this is a gig to get dollars.



With First Nations groups, it is always about money. They say that they are "guardians of the land" but in reality, all they want is to be the ones that make the most money from whatever project is in the works (hydro,oil,gold,diamonds,timber,fish etc.)

Look at the last round of stupidity in Caledonia. The local native group did'nt give a damn about that land until a developer built the infrastructure and luxury homes on it, *then* suddenly it was sacred ground that justified violence to protect.



> Would they be so stupid to word it like that?


Why would they tear down power lines, blockade highways and railroad tracks, shoot at police officers and scream racism every time one of them is jailed? Because they can, because we as a "civilised" society very rarely call them out (Oka) and because it works. 

They know from experience that they can perpetrate acts of domestic terror as a method of achieving political aims, and they continue to do it.


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## Jacqueline (12 Dec 2006)

IMO 

I know acts of violence are unacceptable. But I honestly don't think that what happened in the past (residential schools, language restrictions etc.) has completely healed over yet. The insecurity is going from generation to generation, along with the belief that Natives are still worth nothing. It's such a shame.

I think First Nations are so highly discriminated against and whatever they do is going to be looked at as some type of scam.  How are they going to ever come out of this "attitude" like that?

I know that many other races of people have been invaded as well, but I think the Native situation is unique because the culture is based on hunting/fishing. When the resources have been meddled with, the human has to adapt to their new environment, and in this case (way back when) they were made to believe that they had reason to feel shameful about their culture.


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Dec 2006)

Sorry MJ, that sympathy card has been played to many times. If they want out of the vicious circle they're caught in, they'll have to pull up their bootsraps and do it themselves. No more handouts to fritter away. Not from my pocket anyway.


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## GO!!! (12 Dec 2006)

Miss Jacqueline said:
			
		

> IMO
> I know acts of violence are unacceptable. But I honestly don't think that what happened in the past (residential schools, language restrictions etc.) has completely healed over yet. The insecurity is going from generation to generation, along with the belief that Natives are still worth nothing. It's such a shame.


I honestly don't think you know many natives or have ever lived on a reserve. Not every native was in a residential school, and not every person that went to one was abused. How long can you use generational wrongs to justify current ones? Millions of Jews have been persecuted the world over for thousands of years - yet their diaspora does not feel the need to have shootouts with our police forces. 

Where did you get the perception that natives are worthless? Bit of personal prejudice? They most certainly are not - no ethnic group is.

The shame is that we have not stood up to this thinly disguised white apologist bullying. I have nothing to be ashamed for, or to compensate this generation of natives for. If individuals were wronged, fine, let's deal with it, but there is no such thing as a "second generation residential school survivor" any more than there is such a thing as a "second generation holocaust survivor". 



> I think First Nations are so highly discriminated against and whatever they do is going to be looked at as some type of scam.  How are they going to ever come out of this "attitude" like that?


I think that unless the general population and FN themselves start to see themselves as equal to the rest of us and not deserving of special treatment, this false perception will prevail.

Scam? What do you call demands for money and resources that you are not legally entitled to?



> I know that many other races of people have been invaded as well, but I think the Native situation is unique because the culture is based on hunting/fishing. When the resources have been meddled with, the human has to adapt to their new environment, and in this case (way back when) they were made to believe that they had reason to feel shameful about their culture.


Go back far enough, everyone's culture was based on hunting and fishing. 

As to resources, I don't recall any documented evidence of the six nations having diamond mines or timber mills.

Natives have proven to be just as adept at adapting as anyone else, you'll notice that "traditional" hunting is now done dressed in Gore-tex on snowmobiles with rifles.

I'm made to feel shameful about my culture everyday, as a White anglo male - but that does'nt justify violent outbursts and a culture of intimidation and violence against all who refuse to acquiese to your demands.


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## Jacqueline (12 Dec 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I honestly don't think you know many natives or have ever lived on a reserve. Not every native was in a residential school, and not every person that went to one was abused. How long can you use generational wrongs to justify current ones? Millions of Jews have been persecuted the world over for thousands of years - yet their diaspora does not feel the need to have shootouts with our police forces.
> 
> Where did you get the perception that natives are worthless? Bit of personal prejudice? They most certainly are not - no ethnic group is.
> 
> ...




You know I still think that residential schools have a large impact on the actions of people. Even though it doesn't justify anything. 
My grandmother was in one, she is still impacted by it. The things that she went through, I don't blame her.
I understand about the "sympathy card" but I'm not playing it. It's just true.


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## STONEY (12 Dec 2006)

At the time residential schools were in common use for natives they were also in use for non natives as well.  Try talking to a lot of peoples grandparents and you would find horror stories as well . What was acceptable bahavior in schools in that era, people would today be put in jail for.  Funny thing is none of them are wineing and looking for compensation.

Toodles


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## Kat Stevens (12 Dec 2006)

Mount Cashell, anyone?   Wasn't a native within a decent bowshot of that place.


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## foresterab (12 Dec 2006)

Okay....another take from the day job.

One of the native communities I deal with here is extremely traditional...but they've also been one of the best ones to heal my bias against first nations.  The reason for this the way they have reviewed the roles of individuals and the age of the individuals for the purpose of trying to move the community forward.  Breaking it down it looks like this:

The current elders - these are the traditional leaders of the community but do not tend to sit on the band council.  Due to their experiences with the residental schools they find it extremely hard to deal with "the white man" but are often those that now push for education of the youth

The middle aged - these are the children of the elders who more often than not have been raised with the creed of don't trust whitey and don't trust schools.  They unfortunately are now often limited by lack of education and a percieved lifestyle that they are owed everything (depending on the individual).  These are the majority of the band council members and are whom I have most professional dealings

The young adults - These are the ones that are going back to the elders to try to recover some of the cultural values and tend to be much more ambitious than their parents.  They see the oportunities around them and are chasing some of them and are pushing for the education for their children.  The biggest challenge is learning how to meet some of the european traditions (being on time for example) while not being viewed as giving up the culture.

The children - the culture clash.  MTV and hip hop combined with trapping and the people's language.  However they realize that unless they want to live in a cabin all their lives they need to work towards a goal.  

Why I break this down is to try to illustrate how the residental schools affected the generations.  For those elders that are willing to move forward and push for the communities..great things happen. Opposing this are some young adults who refuse to deal with anyone not from the community and hold everyone back.    It's a gradual healing process that in the short time I've been here I've seen change.

Much as I hate to say it the passing of some of the most anti-white man elders has improved relations.  Likewise the few middleclass folks that were working "the whitemans way" are/have raised kids of their own and proved you can work as a native person and not loose your culture...these are becoming the new elders.   

Overall....it boils down to both the individuals and the communities to look internally and around them and figure out where they're going.   And this reconcilliation process is not easy for anyone to handle...white or native.

I'll think over the original topic of resource claims and maybe post on it later


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## niner domestic (12 Dec 2006)

Stoney: Check your facts... http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20020724/mount_cashel_victims_020724?s_name=&no_ads=


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## Edward Campbell (12 Dec 2006)

niner domestic said:
			
		

> Stoney: Check your facts... http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20020724/mount_cashel_victims_020724?s_name=&no_ads=



Ineed!

See also: St. Joseph's Training School for Boys, in Alfred, ON, which was operated by the Christian Schools of Ottawa, and St. John's Training School for Boys, in Uxbridge, ON which was operated by the Toronto Christian Brothers.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Dec 2006)

....and money doesn't help them in the least. We have had several go through the old Correctional Centre in Guelph and NOTHING makes them heal.

One in particular that was on 'my' floor for over a year even said that all the money did was make self-destruction more affordable and that his money was long gone.


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## The Bread Guy (23 Dec 2006)

A bit more information, presented without comment....

Letter to Nishnawbe Aski Nation

Chief Mike Carpenter Responds to Deputy Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler

    ATTAWAPISKAT, ON, Dec. 22 /CNW/ -

    <<
                              Chief and Council
                            Attawapiskat, Ontario
                                   P0L 1A0

    December 11, 2006

    Nishnawbe-Aski Nation
    710 Victoria Avenue East, 3rd Floor
    Thunder Bay, ON P7C 5P7

    Attention: Alvin Fiddler, Deputy Grand Chief
    --------------------------------------------

    Dear Deputy Grand Chief Fiddler:

        Re: Your Recent Editorial Regarding Mineral Exploration in Ontario

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We are writing to inform you that Attawapiskat takes issue with your
recent editorial in the Rapaport News where you used inaccurate information
that indirectly included mineral exploration in Attawapiskat's traditional
territory. You wrote:

        Instead the hunt for these rare gems from the heart of the Earth has
        meant only conflict and strife for us. De Beers plans to develop
        massive open pit diamond mining projects in our traditional territory
        but it is not honoring our treaty rights or working with us to win
        our consent for the projects.

    You wrote this despite without even asking us for our input.

    There is only one diamond mine currently being built in Ontario at this
moment, and that is the Victor Project in our territories. Your comment is
obviously directed there, however, if you are referring to other First Nations
we refrain from comment. You omitted the fact that Attawapiskat took a
proactive approach to its aboriginal rights and title and negotiated an Impact
Benefit Agreement, a landmark agreement which will set a benchmark for other
such agreements between First Nations and industry. With strong legal
representation and the assertion of our rights, Attawapiskat fought strongly
with De Beers and both levels of government using our rights to our territory
for what we obtained in our IBA: education and training, contracting and
employment preferences, environmental monitoring and guarantees, and financial
benefits. The conflict was eventually settled in the form of the IBA.
Attawapiskat has benefited and will benefit greatly in the future from this
development, which you totally ignored in your remarks. All of this came about
without any help from NAN: no funding, no political support and no legal
support.

    You also wrote:

        Before they can claim to have done the right thing in Canada,
        De Beers and other Canadian diamond mining companies must demonstrate
        a different attitude and pattern of behaviour.

        They must allow us to determine where, when and how diamond mining
        will take place, if at all. They must also work with us and the
        Canadian governments to protect the great Boreal Forest ecosystem and
        make sure it continues to provide clean air, clean water and abundant
        wildlife for our communities and for the world.

    Our IBA also requires Attawapiskat's consent if De Beers wishes to develop
any further kimberlites in our territory, which makes the above quoted remarks
inaccurate. We fail to see how NAN's purpose is to represent our interests and
those of our fellow Ontario First Nations when you unilaterally decide to make
such statements.
    If you felt the need to comment on this Project, you should have consulted
with us, since the existence of the IBA is well known at NAN. While your
article discussed how each First Nation must decide for itself if and how
development should occur in its traditional territory, you totally ignored the
fact that our IBA is a benchmark to be met and exceeded that other First
Nations will benefit from. We are concerned that your comments, which might be
intended to refer to other communities suggests misinformation about our
lands, our IBA and our approach rather than pointing out solutions.
    We would be more than happy to provide other First Nations who are members
of NAN with an outline of our approach and successes in asserting our rights
in order to achieve respect from De Beers and good results in an historic IBA
in Ontario.
    We hope that take this into consideration when you make such statements in
the future.

    Thank you,

    Chief Mike Carpenter


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## TCBF (23 Dec 2006)

Methinks that Chief Mike Carpenter writes a good letter.


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## sober_ruski (23 Dec 2006)

I see a trend emerging.
What is similar with all 3:
1)Caledonia: land became "sacred" ONLY after it was developed, prior to that it was not sacred enough to be 'sold'
2)Wind Power generators: after they were build, suddenly AIR that was going over that land became property of that band...  :
3)This diamond mine: they had a say before construction started.

So, as soon as something gets developed and becomes profitable, it becomes "sacred". What happened to the old idea that NO ONE owns the land?

PS
I didnt know natives used to hunt with rifles on skidoos before pale-face came here.


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## Cronicbny (24 Dec 2006)

Another issue along the same lines occurred here in Victoria regarding the development of the Bear Mountain facility. A "sacred cave" was discovered after it was all but blown up by developers. The solution? The government of BC is allowing them to operate a casino on the premises as a pseudo repayment for the infringement. The sacred cave? Who cares now, a casino is in the works.

http://www.pej.org/html/print.php?sid=6161


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