# 2018 pay increase?



## Arty39 (28 Feb 2018)

Is there a  CF pay increase on April.1st this year?


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## dapaterson (28 Feb 2018)

Nothing announced.


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## MasterInstructor (1 Mar 2018)

Do not expect anything for another 3 - 4 years... It is a nice backpay when it happens!


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## Arty39 (1 Mar 2018)

I’m down for another back pay in a few years


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## NavyShooter (1 Mar 2018)

I'd rather have the money on time....when it comes as backpay, it is a nice chunk, however, not getting an annual increase along the way means that each year our salaries lose buying power against the economy due to inflation.  Additionally, we don't see any interest included with the money we receive as backpay, so basically, you're losing money.

*shrug*  I'd rather see an annual cost of living increase, but understand that it's not how things work in this world.  We have been tied (in a way) to PSAC for our pay raises.

NS


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## Pusser (1 Mar 2018)

NavyShooter said:
			
		

> *shrug*  I'd rather see an annual cost of living increase, but understand that it's not how things work in this world.  We have been tied (in a way) to PSAC for our pay raises.



Actually, cost of living is the only thing our pay increases ever are.  Annual increases to pay rates are never about "attaboys" or rewards for loyalty and good service.  The only true pay "raises" (i.e. rewards) we ever get are upon increases in incentive levels or actual promotion.

We are not tied "in a way" to the Public Service (it's not just PSAC).  Our pay is absolutely tied to that of the Public Service!  This is actually a good thing (in my view) as the Public Service unions do all the work on negotiating the increases and then a comparability formula is applied to determine our new pay rates (which are generally higher).  So whereas Public Servants may have to go on strike to get a fair increase, we do not.  Sadly, strikes, which could cynically be described as beneficial to us, may not always benefit the Public Servants on the picket line.  Sometimes, the amount of money they get in the settlement doesn't make up for what they lost while not getting paid during a strike.


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## CountDC (2 Mar 2018)

agree fully - rather have it every year in smaller amounts than a large lump sum that skewers my income for that one year. For us this results in a loss on certain federal/provincial benefits that are tied to the family income for the year.

Always support the PS in fighting the good fight so we get more.  ;D


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## Piece of Cake (2 Mar 2018)

NavyShooter said:
			
		

> I'd rather have the money on time....when it comes as backpay, it is a nice chunk, however, not getting an annual increase along the way means that each year our salaries lose buying power against the economy due to inflation.


Not only a loss in buying power, but if the CAF wants to be competitive in recruitment, then it needs to offer pay that is adjusted yearly to the CPI.


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## Lumber (2 Mar 2018)

Piece of Cake said:
			
		

> Not only a loss in buying power, but if the CAF wants to be competitive in recruitment, then it needs to offer pay that is adjusted yearly to the CPI.



With the upcoming increase in minimum wage in Ontario to $15/hr, PRes OS/Ptes and NCdt/OCdts will now be making less than minimum wage.


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## dapaterson (2 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> With the upcoming increase in minimum wage in Ontario to $15/hr, PRes OS/Ptes and NCdt/OCdts will now be making less than minimum wage.



Minimum wage: 40 hrs @ $15 = $600 / week

PRes Pte R: 7 days @ 96.06 = $672.42 / week.  If on course away from home, R&Q included.


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## George Wallace (2 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> With the upcoming increase in minimum wage in Ontario to $15/hr, PRes OS/Ptes and NCdt/OCdts will now be making less than minimum wage.



Are you suggesting that there is a Kathleen Wynne/Ontario Liberal Party conspiracy to demilitarize the Province of Ontario?   :stirpot:


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## kratz (2 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> With the upcoming increase in minimum wage in Ontario to $15/hr, PRes OS/Ptes and NCdt/OCdts will now be making less than minimum wage.



$96.06 pay + $8.65 PILL = $104.71 per day / 7.5hrs = $13.96 per hr for Class A OS/AB + additional benefits (the value of SDB, Reserve Dental Plan and Education Reimbursement). I think the pay and benefits package is competitive for entry level training positions.


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## ModlrMike (2 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> $96.06 pay + $8.65 PILL = $104.71 per day / 7.5hrs = $13.96 per hr for Class A OS/AB + additional benefits (the value of SDB, Reserve Dental Plan and Education Reimbursement). I think the pay and benefits package is competitive for entry level training positions.



It's actually worse when you frame it IAW the half day / full day format:

For a half day you get 48.03 + 4.32 = 52.35, then divide that by 6 hours and you get $8.725 per hour. Worse yet again the longer you go over the six hour mark.


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## kratz (2 Mar 2018)

[quote author=ModlrMike]]
It's actually worse when you frame it IAW the half day / full day format:

For a half day you get 48.03 + 4.32 = 52.35, then divide that by 6 hours and you get $8.725 per hour. Worse yet again the longer you go over the six hour mark.
[/quote]

Yikes. At that metric, less than 6 hours, starting at PO2 / Sgt (IPC 1) + PILL starts to break even with $15 hr.
With most PRes quitting within 5 years, the majority would never see a break even point.


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## PuckChaser (2 Mar 2018)

I get $8.21 an hour if you count a 24 hour day we're all liable to recall on. You can make the numbers mean anything, and reservists are no where close to being underpaid.


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## Piece of Cake (2 Mar 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I get $8.21 an hour if you count a 24 hour day we're all liable to recall on. You can make the numbers mean anything, and reservists are no where close to being underpaid.



I would argue that reservists are underpaid by 15 per cent.


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## dapaterson (2 Mar 2018)

Piece of Cake said:
			
		

> I would argue that reservists are underpaid by 15 per cent.



Class A, B or C?  COATS, PRes, Rangers or Supp Res?


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## PuckChaser (2 Mar 2018)

Piece of Cake said:
			
		

> I would argue that reservists are underpaid by 15 per cent.



Endure the full hardships of RegF members and they'll get paid the same. PRes members get that 15% back when they're on Cl C, doing the same job as the RegF. That's a whole other ball of wax though.  ff topic:


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## Piece of Cake (2 Mar 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Class A, B or C?  COATS, PRes, Rangers or Supp Res?



Class A and Class B.  Can't speak about the Rangers as I'm not aware how they are paid.

Class C should be the pay standard for Class A and B reservists.

As an aside, I found this interesting.

http://www.ombudsman-veterans.gc.ca/eng/blog/post/286


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## George Wallace (2 Mar 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Endure the full hardships of RegF members and they'll get paid the same. PRes members get that 15% back when they're on Cl C, doing the same job as the RegF. That's a whole other ball of wax though.  ff topic:



With that attitude, the Reserves will abandon ship and flip burgers at Mickey D's.


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## childs56 (3 Mar 2018)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Endure the full hardships of RegF members and they'll get paid the same. PRes members get that 15% back when they're on Cl C, doing the same job as the RegF. That's a whole other ball of wax though.  ff topic:



What hardships? Please enlighten those of us who are not clear as to what the difference in pay should be for? 
a full pay check every two weeks. Time to work out, full benefits, go home early, generally a very generous vacation package...............

Been there done that. I actually worked harder in the Reserves then I did in the Regular Force. That was on top of my other job I worked. It was a choice I made when i was In the Reserves I enjoyed the it the whole time.


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## armyvern (3 Mar 2018)

CTD said:
			
		

> What hardships? Please enlighten those of us who are not clear as to what the difference in pay should be for?
> a full pay check every two weeks. Time to work out, full benefits, go home early, generally a very generous vacation package...............
> ...



29 years and 13 geographical pick-up-and-damn moves - only one of those was to another location within the same province.  9 years straight of non-voluntary IR away from my family, sometimes on the opposite side of the country.  5 tours for me and then the tours for my SO.  Ask my kids how their school years were for them and how many friends they managed to make.  

You can see my other posts on this site about lack of time to work out, lack of family time, lack of sleep. lack of time off, and 12-14 hour days at work being the expectation vice the exception these days for some support trades to keep things afloat ...

Glad that you managed to pull the "vacation package" straw to my opposite experience.  Even my training husband, an infantry guy, didn't manage to pull off the vacation package.

15%.  When subject to above.  Glad it wasn't your experience, but it is an experience many have and those pers are employed within the Reg F.


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## SeaKingTacco (3 Mar 2018)

Piece of Cake said:
			
		

> Class A and Class B.  Can't speak about the Rangers as I'm not aware how they are paid.
> 
> Class C should be the pay standard for Class A and B reservists.
> 
> ...



I have been both Reg and Reserve Force. The 85% pay thing for reservists is more than fair, considering they have geographical stability and a great deal of choice in both work assignments and frequency.

You want the full ticket- go Reg Force.


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## childs56 (3 Mar 2018)

I do know the premise of my comment was more directed towards why a Reservist makes less then a Regular Force.  I can say when I use to go away for 3 or four months to instruct I did the same job, worked the same 12-18hrs a day on average as my Regular Force Friends. Yet I made less then they did even though we both held the same rank. Even funnier was when they found out how much less we made. and that we were not being paid year round unless we showed up for work.  (they all thought we received a monthy wage for doing nothing). Everyone of them said they would not give up their summer and take a pay cut to do what we did.  I choose to do what I did for the better of my Unit and myself, I made decent money but not as much as if I had of stayed home and continued in my Civilian job. 

I still know many people in the Military, Army Navy and Airforce. They seem to be pretty happy with their postings and their life style. Not many of them working past 8hrs a day unless they are on a Training Billet or a Operation Task. Every one of them seem to have lots of time off for Vacation time. It is not perfect but it also isnt as bad as some have it. 

I also know a few who seem to always be deployed and are never home. But they see to be the fewer of the crowd. 

My Civilian job now affords me the 12plus hrs a day with the average being 16hrs with being away from home more then 2/3rds of my life living out of a duffel bag. Its a life style people become accustomed to. But not one that is great for family or friends.


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## Eaglelord17 (3 Mar 2018)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> 29 years and 13 geographical pick-up-and-damn moves - only one of those was to another location within the same province.  9 years straight of non-voluntary IR away from my family, sometimes on the opposite side of the country.  5 tours for me and then the tours for my SO.  Ask my kids how their school years were for them and how many friends they managed to make.
> 
> You can see my other posts on this site about lack of time to work out, lack of family time, lack of sleep. lack of time off, and 12-14 hour days at work being the expectation vice the exception these days for some support trades to keep things afloat ...
> 
> ...



Ok and you also have the other side of things as well, which includes Reg Force members who do next to nothing all day. Some people I have met in the Regs couldn't make it civvy side, being to lazy or incompetent to actually get and hold a real career. The other thing is when your coming in for a half day or full day with the Reserves its only when there is work. I can recall many days when there wasn't anything to do in the Regs but I was paid either way.

It is much harder to be a dedicated Reservist than a Reg Force member. Reg Force they simply tell you what to do and you do it. Reserves you have to try and balance a civilian career as well as a family and a military career.  For example I work 48+ hours a week of hard industrial labour in a severely understaffed mechanical department (under 50% manning). On top of that I still go to every parade night plus some weekends. I will work sometimes a 11 hour shift starting at 7am, go straight to the Reserves after work and be at the Reserves until 11pm only to wake up for 4am to go back to heavy maintenance for another 12 hour shift. Then after that I will show up to the Reserves on the weekend for training only to go back to my civvy job on Monday. A while ago I worked 104 hours in a week between the Reserves and my civvy job. The longest period of time I have had off in over a year is 4 days. 

This isn't meant to be some sort of foot measuring contest, just a statement of some peoples reality. There are people who work hard in both elements, just as there are people who do as little as possible. The big difference is with the Reserves those who do as little as possible don't get paid for it. That 15% difference is insulting especially when you consider all the other benefits the Regs receive. When you do the same work, you should receive the same pay.


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## jollyjacktar (3 Mar 2018)

Eaglelord17,  we have to balance our family life too, even more so in some instances.  I have been away from home on IR going on 3 years now and will be heading towards 4 in a few months.

I too, was a Reservist many years ago.  The levels of training between the two were night and day and for those trades l am familiar with, still are.

There are marked differences between us.


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## winnipegoo7 (3 Mar 2018)

Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> On top of that I still go to every parade night plus some weekends.



I think this is actually the major difference. If a class A reservist doesn’t want to come to work a class A reservist doesn’t have to go to work. 

In the end both reg force and reserve force careers are choices, each of which have their own pros and cons. 

 If you think you’re being mistreated then quit the military or switch to the reg force (where you’re life would apparently be so much easier).


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## runormal (3 Mar 2018)

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> I think this is actually the major difference. If a class A reservist doesn’t want to come to work a class A reservist doesn’t have to go to work.



I think this is huge point and people keep saying  "well Pte Bloggins could make more per hour at McDonalds." 

I've never worked a retail job where I could simply say "Yeah I don't feel like coming in, so I'm not." Shift trading/giving away happens, but ultimately you are responsible for finding a replacement.  In the reserves if you don't show up what can your COC really do? Threaten to not send you on RST? Good luck, we can't fill the spots that we have..


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## SupersonicMax (3 Mar 2018)

Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> Ok and you also have the other side of things as well, which includes Reg Force members who do next to nothing all day. Some people I have met in the Regs couldn't make it civvy side, being to lazy or incompetent to actually get and hold a real career. The other thing is when your coming in for a half day or full day with the Reserves its only when there is work. I can recall many days when there wasn't anything to do in the Regs but I was paid either way.
> 
> It is much harder to be a dedicated Reservist than a Reg Force member. Reg Force they simply tell you what to do and you do it. Reserves you have to try and balance a civilian career as well as a family and a military career.  For example I work 48+ hours a week of hard industrial labour in a severely understaffed mechanical department (under 50% manning). On top of that I still go to every parade night plus some weekends. I will work sometimes a 11 hour shift starting at 7am, go straight to the Reserves after work and be at the Reserves until 11pm only to wake up for 4am to go back to heavy maintenance for another 12 hour shift. Then after that I will show up to the Reserves on the weekend for training only to go back to my civvy job on Monday. A while ago I worked 104 hours in a week between the Reserves and my civvy job. The longest period of time I have had off in over a year is 4 days.
> 
> This isn't meant to be some sort of foot measuring contest, just a statement of some peoples reality. There are people who work hard in both elements, just as there are people who do as little as possible. The big difference is with the Reserves those who do as little as possible don't get paid for it. That 15% difference is insulting especially when you consider all the other benefits the Regs receive. When you do the same work, you should receive the same pay.



The big difference is that you do it by choice.  In the Reg force, that choice isn't there,  in fact, you also do not have the choice of where you live.  My wife could make a lot more if we weren't in Cold Lake and there is nothing I or she can do.  As a reservist, younhave that choice of living where you desire .  I can tell you she could make more that the extra 15% I make over a reservist.


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## George Wallace (3 Mar 2018)

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> I think this is actually the major difference. If a class A reservist doesn’t want to come to work a class A reservist doesn’t have to go to work.



Yes and NO.

If a Class A Reservist doesn't want to come to work, they don't have to, is correct.  However, if a Class A Reservist does not Parade the minimum required amount of time per month, they will be marked as NES and Release Proceedings may soon follow.


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## garb811 (3 Mar 2018)

We have been around this bush more than a few times on this website and this rapidly spiraled into another round of Reg vs Res.

If you want to debate the reasons for differences in compensation or shortcomings of the training/experience/motivation/pick the topic of whichever component you are for or against, go find that thread and do it there.  Otherwise, back on topic.

*- Staff*


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## Zoomie (3 Mar 2018)

I’m looking forward to Monday - where I get to go to work and do nothing all day.   :rofl:


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## dapaterson (3 Mar 2018)

Ditch said:
			
		

> I’m looking forward to Monday - where I get to go to work and do nothing all day.   :rofl:



You're a compensation adviser in Miramichi?


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## PPCLI Guy (3 Mar 2018)

Ditch said:
			
		

> I’m looking forward to Monday - where I get to go to work and do nothing all day.   :rofl:



You work at CJOC?


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## PuckChaser (3 Mar 2018)

Probably at PSPC in the DND procurements cell.


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## dapaterson (4 May 2019)

PSAC, the largest PS union, has rejected an offer of 1.5% per year over four years, and has also rejected a proposal for compensation for Phoenix related issues which PIPSC, CAPE and other unions have accepted.

Looks to be a bumpy way forward.

PSAC declares bargaining impasse: http://psacunion.ca/psac-declares-bargaining-impasse-liberals-fail

PSAC rejects Phoenix offer: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-ottawa-government-psac-1.5123034


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## SeaKingTacco (4 May 2019)

Because they will do so much better if the Conservatives win this fall?


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## JesseWZ (4 May 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> PSAC, the largest PS union, has rejected an offer of 1.5% per year over four years, and has also rejected a proposal for compensation for Phoenix related issues which PIPSC, CAPE and other unions have accepted.
> 
> Looks to be a bumpy way forward.
> 
> ...



If the CBC article is accurate, that seems like a pretty weak sauce first offer, considering the hardship many were put through...


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## TCM621 (4 May 2019)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Because they will do so much better if the Conservatives win this fall?



They would fight with the NDP, it's just how these things seem to work.


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