# Walking the dog???



## big_johnson1 (1 Mar 2007)

Ok so this is more of a rant than anything..

Walking the dog, in uniform, with no beret, along a busy street? I mean, what the hell?! Have the dress regs changed recently? What ever happened to looking professional while in uniform?

Any thoughts?


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## TN2IC (1 Mar 2007)

Sort him out... I dare you.

 ;D


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## big_johnson1 (1 Mar 2007)

All I got whizzing by on my bike was a blue epaulet.. Hmmm, guess those ridiculous colours come in handy afterall


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## Bzzliteyr (5 Mar 2007)

Okay, here we go.  I may have mentioned this before, but I feel I must mention it again.  As recently said to me by the Task force RSM "you can say anything to anyone, it's all HOW you say it that matters".

Dress regulations and enforcement are the responsability of everyone.  If you see someone out of dress, tactfully correct them and you should have no issues.  MAKE SURE YOU ARE CORRECT FIRST.  For instance, I once saw the base commander at Timmies with a huge thread stuck to his beret, I kindly informed him that he had one and offered to remove it for him, he thanked me and carried on his way.  Why did I say anything?  Because he represents the CF in his uniform and the way people (civvies) look at him affects the way they look at all of us, same goes for the guy walking the dog.

Stop your bike, approach the gentleman and suggest that maybe he forgot to put his beret on inadvertently when he left his house?

I don't know, the other technique would be do quickly remove and identifying factors on yourself and do a drive by correcting... "Put your darn beret on!!!!"  That usually spooks em enough to do something as they aren't sure what rank level yelled at em.. hehe

Good luck, if you get in trouble.. you don't know me.....


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## medaid (5 Mar 2007)

hehehe that reminds me of something I saw on the street the other day! Like... oh a guy with jeans on their military fleece underneath their OD gore-tex, and guess what?! He was a Cpl! How'd I know? Well.... I saw it on his CADPAT slip on! It was awesome! I was in uniform, and I was REALLY tempted to roll down my window and ask him, like you said Bzzliteyr, politely as to what unit he belongs to, and why is he WAY out of uniform? But... the cars behind me started to honk incessantly at me so I had to move on   but honestly... where do people get these crazy ideas that they can wear any parts of their uniforms when ever they please? I know that the dress regs say you may, provided that you remove all the identification features on them in the case of DEU items, but... CADPAT/ ODs as well?


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## aesop081 (5 Mar 2007)

Feral said:
			
		

> All I got whizzing by on my bike was a blue epaulet.. Hmmm, guess those ridiculous colours come in handy afterall



IMHO, if you didnt stop to sort the issue out, you are part of the problem


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## mysteriousmind (5 Mar 2007)

This does not concern me, I was merly a witness of some  CWO who happened to pass by a CPL walking in uniform while smoking a cigarette...

the CWO stopped the guy and asked him how he was doing, if he had a accident, or had some bad news. the guy (which I never saw his rank) answered with a polite tone to the CWO and was very respectfull until the CWO look at him and with sharp tone told loud enough to be heard "Then, why the hell are you smoking a F$%?(@g cigarette while walking. Aren't you ashamed of the image you are giving to every one.

The CWO then started walking while the guy turned dead white... he just drop the cig and walked his way. 

Seeing his face: Priceless.


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## Sig_Des (5 Mar 2007)

mysteriousmind said:
			
		

> The CWO then started walking while the guy turned dead white... he just drop the cig and walked his way.
> 
> Seeing his face: Priceless.



And I can guarantee that if said CWO had seen the Cpl just dropping his smoke, there would have been hell to pay.


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## orange.paint (5 Mar 2007)

One that drives me nuts is holding hands in uniform.It looks horrible,and unprofessional.I have seen it but never said anything as they were with their significant other.

Cell phones are my pet peeve.Seen a guy walking down the main stretch in gagetown having a fine ol conversation on his cell.I drove ahead parked the car and walked back.As soon as he seen me coming him and his friends knew what was coming.I would never yell at someone on a cell phone...but I would get their attention as I wished to speak with them...

No man in my opinion deserves to be reamed in front of his wife/girlfriend.I had a Mcpl do it to me once.He not only did it in front of my wife...he walked me across the parade square to be in ear shot of the SSM gaggle on the other side.(It was a long parade and I didn't react to the words of command quick enough and slid my feet into attention to try to cover it up.In the back rank and was in my happy place.)He's quite high up now,on pulling gig's like that.I still hate the man,and always will.

There is a thing about looking professional,however there is a responsibility to be professional in correcting someones faults.

As a good WO told me,take the best characteristic traits from everyone and leave out the bad.Then mold yourself into that person.

.....I will not walk 400 m(no exaggeration)to make myself look important in front of a bunch of SSM's.

Oh and guys who jack up someone for their dress and they got pockets undone.That drives me.Seen a Mcpl doing it here the other day and had to stop and tell him afterwards.


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## big_johnson1 (5 Mar 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> IMHO, if you didnt stop to sort the issue out, you are part of the problem



I don't need to defend my actions to you. At least you sorted me out, now only one of us is part of the problem!  :




			
				EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Oh and guys who jack up someone for their dress and they got pockets undone.That drives me.Seen a Mcpl doing it here the other day and had to stop and tell him afterwards.



You mention this to the guy? I think it would totally be worth it just to see his face.


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## aesop081 (5 Mar 2007)

Feral said:
			
		

> I don't need to defend my actions to you.



So you think that not correcting that individual on the spot was the best thing to do for the CFs image  ?

...and you are correct, you do not need to defend your actions........i would like you to explain your inaction, if you could


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## orange.paint (5 Mar 2007)

Feral said:
			
		

> You mention this to the guy? I think it would totally be worth it just to see his face.



He thanked me with the words "ahhhh ****" and did up the zipper.He was jacking a student up for lint all over his beret.As I'm walking past the first thing I see is his gaping pocket with some papers hanging out.I sort of waited around until he was done.

The look on his face was good.


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## big_johnson1 (6 Mar 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> So you think that not correcting that individual on the spot was the best thing to do for the CFs image  ?
> 
> ...and you are correct, you do not need to defend your actions........i would like you to explain your inaction, if you could



I have my reasons for not correcting that individual on the spot. I didn't agree with it, hence starting this post with my rant. But as I stated before, I will not defend my actions to you. Nor my "inaction".


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## aesop081 (6 Mar 2007)

Maybe next time you should spare us your rants if you are unwilling to do anything about it..........It was in your realm to do so.


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## Yrys (6 Mar 2007)

Feral said:
			
		

> I don't need to defend my actions to you. At least you sorted me out, now only one of us is part of the problem!  :



I find your comment rude. You make a post, CDN Aviator told you his opinion.
Even if you don't know him, the fact that Mike B. made him a mod should give you clue
that he is respected around here. I can comprehend beeing surprised by his comment,
then you just have to take sometimes off before replying politely.

What image of the CF are YOU giving to civies like me ?

I'll quote another mod, also a respected member here, in another thread, on another subject:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32873/post-536267.html#msg536267



			
				The Librarian said:
			
		

> Guys, you want to ***** that's fine; just remember that unless you do something about a problem when you think you have one...it won't get fixed.



I'll quote yourself from your profil, in the hope that my last line won't surprised you...



> Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.


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## larry Strong (6 Mar 2007)

Yrys said:
			
		

> I'll quote yourself from your profil, in the hope that my last line won't surprised you...




 :rofl: +1


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## big_johnson1 (6 Mar 2007)

Yrys said:
			
		

> I find your comment rude. You make a post, CDN Aviator told you his opinion.
> Even if you don't know him, the fact that Mike B. made him a mod should give you clue
> that he is respected around here. I can comprehend beeing surprised by his comment,
> then you just have to take sometimes off before replying politely.



I found his comment just as rude. He was not aware of my circumstances and he rushed to judgment on my "inaction". I merely repaid his comment in kind. I wasn't looking for a shooting match, I was just curious as to what others had seen/done about members of the CF who look like a bag of hammers in public.

As you suggest, I'll take some time and think of a polite reply to your comment reference my profile.


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## mysteriousmind (6 Mar 2007)

Ferral, ill give you my 0.02$

if you are of rank what you indicate, as an officer, you should never let by a situation that affects the CF image.

You should never let by a situation that proves that you are not worthy of being an officer. By doing so, you let go the standard a little lower each time. and you let your leadership a little lower. have the *courage of you action and of your opinion*. By by not explaining yourself, you prooved to the rest of those fine people on this forum that serves under our flag. that you deserve no respect.

you don't have to justify yourself; That is totally correct sir, but if you are ranting...you should be able to put more meat around your rant.


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## InfantryGrrl (6 Mar 2007)

Back to the topic at hand….

A buddy just told me a story about an event on his BMQ recently.  The course did such a good job on their nav that the staff said they could order pizza.   So this one troop decides to walk to the ATM at CFB Meaford in only his long johns, wet weather boots, civvy tshirt AND open cadpat jacket.     

Needless to say, pizza privileges for the whole course were revoked.  

It was a) really stupid of buddy to think dressing like that was appropriate and b) even more really stupid of his course mates - someone must have seen him getting dressed - to let him walk out like that.


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2007)

InfantryGrrl said:
			
		

> Needless to say, pizza privileges for the whole course were revoked...
> 
> even more really stupid of his course mates - someone must have seen him getting dressed - to let him walk out like that.



Ahhh, that is exactly what BMQs are all about!! Another well-deserved lesson in _Teamwork_ learned, and most likely, never to be forgotten.


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## riggermade (6 Mar 2007)

One of the funniest incicents I had was in Trenton, I saw this young officer by Tpt and he was walking with a Timmies in one hand and eating an apple with the other, being the keen Sgt I was at the time I decided I should pay the proper compliments, it was a hoot watching him try to decide to drop the apple or the Timmies


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## 3rd Herd (6 Mar 2007)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> And I can guarantee that if said CWO had seen the Cpl just dropping his smoke, there would have been hell to pay.



Not hell, Sig, but the proper way of disposing of a drop cigarette butt discovered by a CWO usually involves a proper burial in a grave that takes forever to dig. A run to quarters after said grave is dug to change into the proper uniform for the funreal ceremony. After said ceremony a hour or two or the parade square to make up for lack of precision in the funeral. Then another run to quarters to change yet again to fill in said grave in the proper duty wear. Depending on the CWO and the time of the week this could take up to 48hrs of practice before satisfaction was achieved. Lesson: if you smoke find a nice unobservable corner and remember to field strip.

Riggermade;
Coming out of a liquor store, box of beer under one arm and bottle of whisky under the other. Watching that decision process-"Priceless"


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## riggermade (6 Mar 2007)

Nothing worse than being in Trenton and you come out of the bank to see a Capt leaning against the building, no headdress, flight jacket unzipped and having a smoke


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## I_am_John_Galt (6 Mar 2007)

riggermade said:
			
		

> One of the funniest incicents I had was in Trenton, I saw this young officer by Tpt and he was walking with a Timmies in one hand and eating an apple with the other, being the keen Sgt I was at the time I decided I should pay the proper compliments, it was a hoot watching him try to decide to drop the apple or the Timmies



Huh?  I thought that when you have things in both hands, you are just supposed to compliment/acknowledge by coming to 'attention' while you walk ... am I wrong?


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## HItorMiss (6 Mar 2007)

Ahhhh but all flustered people don't think they react...and reaction is Salute in return....I have seen it done to Officers on bikes now that is always worth seeing.


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## Bzzliteyr (6 Mar 2007)

What is it with flight crews and their lack of having the skill set to "operate zipper on flight jacket"??


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## big_johnson1 (6 Mar 2007)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Ahhhh but all flustered people don't think they react...and reaction is Salute in return....I have seen it done to Officers on bikes now that is always worth seeing.



Haha, yeah Comox is a good place to watch for that..


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> What is it with flight crews and their lack of having the skill set to "operate zipper on flight jacket"??



There is so many we loose track of which is zipped which isn't.  

Max


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

I_am_John_Galt_(again) said:
			
		

> Huh?  I thought that when you have things in both hands, you are just supposed to compliment/acknowledge by coming to 'attention' while you walk ... am I wrong?



Your also taught to carry things in your left hand.If you have too much,make two trips and stop being lazy.When carrying coffee hold it by the top arm strait down.Looks more professional and your ready for a salute,without coffee going everywhere.Also walking and eating is right up there with smoking.


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## I_am_John_Galt (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Your also taught to carry things in your left hand.If you have too much,make two trips and stop being lazy.When carrying coffee hold it by the top arm strait down.Looks more professional and your ready for a salute,without coffee going everywhere.


  Tell me you're joking.


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

Did I miss something?

Nope not joking.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

Well, some people just don't have all that time I guess to go back and forth, so they use both hands...  

Max


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## I_am_John_Galt (6 Mar 2007)

"Sorry I'm late, Sir: I had to walk clear across the base three times, because if I tried take my helmet bag and my kit bag in one trip, I wouldn't have been able to salute anyone" ... is this what you mean by "lazy"? I've also yet to see an order that tells me that carrying a cup of coffee by "the top, arm straight down, looks more professional"


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## Juvat (6 Mar 2007)

You have to use a bit of common sense.  Instead of having your hands full, put the items in a nuke bag.  That way you will be able to return the compliments when they are presented.  

At the unit the troops actively hunt officers with two handfuls of stuff in order to pay the compliments and watch the officer struggle.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

Well, you unit is certainly not mine...  I have never seen anyone do such things here...  What kind of person would do that???

Max


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Well, some people just don't have all that time I guess to go back and forth, so they use both hands...
> 
> Max



Or use a issued backpack.Place small items in your pocket.This is another thing that annoys me seeing troops marching with a wallet or some small object that can be placed in the pocket.Having a lack of time does not constitute looking like a sacko.



			
				I_am_John_Galt_(again) said:
			
		

> "Sorry I'm late, Sir: I had to walk clear across the base three times, because if I tried take my helmet bag and my kit bag in one trip, I wouldn't have been able to salute anyone" ... is this what you mean by "lazy"? I've also yet to see an order that tells me that carrying a cup of coffee by "the top, arm straight down, looks more professional"



Where is the left hand suppose to be when saluting there skins?I have yet to see a Timmy's cup in a drill manual as well.But it shows where the right arm is placed while saluting.And I'll give you a hint.

Its not a 90 degree bend horizontal across the chest.

Your an officer and you can't plan how to move a kitbag and a backpack....Tell me YOUR joking?

How about saying "sorry I'm late sir.I have no understanding of time appreciation,critical thinking or planning."


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## CdnArtyWife (6 Mar 2007)

There have been times when hubby had to carry our daughter for a short distance while in uniform. Inevitably he always ended up getting saluted in the process. He had taken to carrying daughter in left arm, and when he returned the salute...she usually followed suit...kinda cute really. It only happened a couple times and since our daughter has been able to make the trip under her own steam...she now walks beside daddy, holding his hand...and still salutes back (with the wrong hand). Still cute though.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Or use a issued backpack.Place small items in your pocket.This is another thing that annoys me seeing troops marching with a wallet or some small object that can be placed in the pocket.Having a lack of time does not constitute looking like a sacko.
> 
> Where is the left hand suppose to be when saluting there skins?I have yet to see a Timmy's cup in a drill manual as well.But it shows where the right arm is placed while saluting.And I'll give you a hint.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry but in my job, stuff happens last minute sometimes...  In fact, most of the time.  And it's not because of lack of planning...  And btw, I don't have an issue back pack. I have a flight bag.

Max


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## Juvat (6 Mar 2007)

Guess things are different in other elements... :


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## medaid (6 Mar 2007)

Max, everyones jobs happen practically last minute, with the often chance on chance element of surprise. It should not in anyway be an excuse when it comes to the proper paying and returning of compliments while in uniform. Since you and me brother are junior officers, we will get screwed more often then not, just like previously mentioned with the roaming saluting machines. Yet, we should still return salutes and we should do it with the up most precision and sharpness. No matter what the intent was behind that salute, we, as officers, should never take it lightly. Just my 0.02 rupees.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

I never take it lightly and I always return the compliments.  However, I will not go back and forth a place to be able to actually salute.  I believe that saying "Thank you" is just as good when both hands are full.

Max


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## I_am_John_Galt (6 Mar 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I'm sorry but in my job, stuff happens last minute sometimes...  In fact, most of the time.  And it's not because of lack of planning...  And btw, I don't have an issue back pack. I have a flight bag.
> 
> Max



What he said ... there's a point where function becomes more important than formality (and there _are _orders about having too much crap stuffed into your pockets).  Doing everything twice in order to keep my right hand free is _stupid_.



			
				MedTech said:
			
		

> Max, everyones jobs happen practically last minute, with the often chance on chance element of surprise. It should not in anyway be an excuse when it comes to the proper paying and returning of compliments while in uniform. Since you and me brother are junior officers, we will get screwed more often then not, just like previously mentioned with the roaming saluting machines. Yet, we should still return salutes and we should do it with the up most precision and sharpness. No matter what the intent was behind that salute, we, as officers, should never take it lightly. Just my 0.02 rupees.



I think we are drawing a line between paying and returning compliments (which I'm sure we all agree-upon) and walking around with only one useful arm.


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

I for one am not an officer.I'm not saluting you,I'm saluting your commission by the queen.Looking like a sack of poo reflects poorly on the CF and your commission IMHO.

I suggest you take a good hard look at the drill manual,obviously it is not enforced on the airforce side.However in the army you keep small things in your pockets and make more than one trip if necessary.

No matter the excuse as "Were quite busy" is kinda lame.As most army guys know we get busy from time to time(in between suntanning and all).Apparently going through training you must have had poor NCO's who didn't enforce dress and discipline.Personally any troop that I train will adhere to it,if he doesn't it reflects poorly on myself,and the organisation that trained him.



			
				MedTech said:
			
		

> Max, everyones jobs happen practically last minute, with the often chance on chance element of surprise. It should not in anyway be an excuse when it comes to the proper paying and returning of compliments while in uniform. Since you and me brother are junior officers, we will get screwed more often then not, just like previously mentioned with the roaming saluting machines. Yet, we should still return salutes and we should do it with the up most precision and sharpness. No matter what the intent was behind that salute, we, as officers, should never take it lightly. Just my 0.02 rupees.


Hummm....army base trained there MEDTech?Seems you have a grasp on it.

...However I really would perfer if you refered to NCM/NCO's as just that and not roaming saluting machines. ;D

"If you look good,everything else just falls into place."


There should be no arguement look in the forsaken drill bible...it's all right there.


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I never take it lightly and I always return the compliments.  However, I will not go back and forth a place to be able to actually salute.  I believe that saying "Thank you" is just as good when both hands are full.
> 
> Max



Really hope that you remember that when it's you, arms free, who passes your Cpl one morning while both his hands are full, preferably with coffee for me and donuts too.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

Librarian, if you knew me, I'm really a laid back person and I will take the compliments anyway they come (Good Day is perfect for me).  If they want donuts and coffee well it's their buisness and I don't see any regulations preventing this.  

There is a way to carry two items in two different hands and still look professionnal.  And I think the excuse "We are quite busy" isn't that lame.  Not that anybody would ask me "Why do you carry stuff in both hands?" anyway...

Max


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2007)

Supersonic max,

You talking to a girl who has, on many occasion, thrown her full duffle bag atop her rucksack which was on her back in order to make it wherever I was going in one trip...and leave the hands free.

Sorry, but I don't buy the difficulty of carrying a helmet bag (they're pretty small comparably) and another bag simultaneously. The Tac hel guys around these parts seem to be quite capable of slinging their helmet bags and another over their left shoulders (somewhat purselike) and leaving their right hand and arm free. They even manage to negotiate that Timmies cup into the left hand without too much difficulty, and return salutes.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

Now try that with 2 pieces of luggages, a flight bag and a Parka   

Max


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## medaid (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Hummm....army base trained there MEDTech?Seems you have a grasp on it.
> 
> ...However I really would perfer if you refered to NCM/NCO's as just that and not roaming saluting machines. ;D



No no no  I didn't mean that NCM/NCOs are roaming saluting machines  I was referring to the troops that ROAM around in search of officers with both arms tied up ;D. I was an NCM once, and I know how much it'd piss me off when I salute an officer, and they didn't have the common decency to you know, at least say 'thank you' or something. 

Come on! we all used to do it! 'Damn officers, thinks they're blah blah blah blah blah'


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## I_am_John_Galt (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> I for one am not an officer.I'm not saluting you,I'm saluting your commission by the queen.Looking like a sack of poo reflects poorly on the CF and your commission IMHO.


 What does this have to do with anything?



> I suggest you take a good hard look at the drill manual,obviously it is not enforced on the airforce side.However in the army you keep small things in your pockets and make more than one trip if necessary. ... There should be no arguement look in the forsaken drill bible...it's all right there.


Great idea! 

http://142.59.159.170/pams/cfp201_b.pdf 
CFP201 Chapter 2: SQUAD DRILL AT THE HALT WITHOUT ARMS 





> CARRYING OF ARTICLES
> 19.  If any one article is carried, such as a briefcase, umbrella or raincoat, it shall be carried in the left hand. If an article is carried when marching, the left arm is not swung.
> 
> 20.  Articles shall be carried in the manner illustrated in Figure 2-5.


 Fig. 2-5 illustrates items carried both with a straight arm and elbow bent 90 degrees, one item in left hand *and two items, one in each hand.*



> SALUTING, AT THE HALT, WITHOUT ARMS
> 36.  The salute is given with the right hand. When physical incapacity or* carrying of articles makes a salute with the right hand impracticable*, compliments will be paid by turning the head and eyes to the left or right or standing to attention, as appropriate (see also Chapter 1, Section 2).



Advantage: _AirForce Jr. Officers_


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Now try that with 2 pieces of luggages, a flight bag and a Parka
> 
> Max



Make two trips. Plain and simple. The traffic techs are already taking it out to the plane for you. If you've got two pieces of luggage, the flight bag and a parka, you knew about the trip well enough in advance to pack. No excuses for not therefore having enough time to show up and take two trips into the hangar. North of 60 for a SAR flight?? Most likely you wouldn't have known in advance, but then you wouldn't have two pieces of luggage either.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

I never pack the parka, I need it in the plane closet.  The flight bag, I need it for my job.  I usually bring my stuff for the trips right before we go (I leave it in the car since there isn't much space for this where I work)  And sometimes, we are delayed and delayed and suddenly, the aircraft comes up serviceable and here we go.  So it has to be quick enough...  So I will not make 2 trips!  

And no, traffic techs don't unload my baggages for me, I usually do it for myself and for the others most of the time, just because I'm nice   I'm not that lazy...

Max


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

Interesting.Guess Ill carry around a ******* umbrella and a raincoat so I don't have to salute anymore.

When I enrolled it was pounded into our feeble minds to not carry anything in your right hand.Don't carry anything if can fit into a pocket or in a backpack.

I seen a SSM lose it on troops carrying their keys in their hand on their way to the parking lot.

If you want to know who RCAC_011 is tomorrow go to J-7 and look for the bald guy with the umbrella and a ******* raincoat.

Guess everything I've learned was a lie.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Interesting.Guess Ill carry around a ******* umbrella and a raincoat so I don't have to salute anymore.
> 
> When I enrolled it was pounded into our feeble minds to not carry anything in your right hand.Don't carry anything if can fit into a pocket or in a backpack.
> 
> ...



Again, I guess this is a mentality thing, which is, I believe, closely related to the element you work in.  I guess the Air Force has other matters to take care of during the day than spotting people going to their car with their keys in hand  :


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I never pack the parka, I need it in the plane closet.  The flight bag, I need it for my job.  I usually bring my stuff for the trips right before we go (I leave it in the car since there isn't much space for this where I work)  And sometimes, we are delayed and delayed and suddenly, the aircraft comes up serviceable and here we go.  So it has to be quick enough...  So I will not make 2 trips!
> 
> And no, traffic techs don't unload my baggages for me, I usually do it for myself and for the others most of the time, just because I'm nice   I'm not that lazy...
> 
> Max



I never told you to pack the parka. I was a SAR spotter in Trenton, did my tour of Alert too, I know what it's like to live with the parka handy. I also know what it's like to keep the fly away kit...in the workplace vice the trunk.

I didn't say the tfc techs unloaded your bags for you either. They take them from the hangar, across the flight line and onto the plane though. The hardest part is actually getting them into the hangar. And really, it's not as difficult as you seem to be making it. I've seen it done daily in Trenton. Of course that takes more than one trip, but others seem able to do it quite easily that way. 

It also has nothing to do with mentality. Some people have it, some don't. Glad the pilots in Trenton seemed to have mastered the art of carrying more than one bag at a time and are still capable of returning that salute. Are you telling me that's a fading artform now??


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

My way of returning the salute when hands full is by saying thanks.  And by the books, it seems to be okay.

And I do bring my own luggage to the plane and back.  We are a self sufficient unit 

Max


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

If I can carry a ruck on my back a barrack box in my left hand...
Mentality...you mean looking professional right?
For some reason I'm getting an image of a bunch of guys walking down the corridor of junior high with books piled up to their nose.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> If I can carry a ruck on my back a barrack box in my left hand...
> Mentality...you mean looking professional right?
> For some reason I'm getting an image of a bunch of guys walking down the corridor of junior high with books piled up to their nose.



Maybe your image is wrong.  In the end, I always ask myself :  If CBC or CTV sees me right now, will I look like an idiot.  And I think it comes right down to it :  Using common sense.  

I don't think carrying my 2 pieces of luggage, one in each hand, with the flight bag and the parka on top of one will make me look like an idiot...

Max


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## Gramps (6 Mar 2007)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> I didn't say the tfc techs unloaded your bags for you either. They take them from the hangar, across the flight line and onto the plane though.


As a matter of fact we do not take crew baggage, they are on their own there. I had a bad experience once with a young Nav 2Lt who tried to blame me for him forgetting his NAV Bag in the OPs room in Thule. He lost the argument and I lost all respect for him for trying that crap. Now because of that and other incidents similar to it (usually with new, young OJT aircrew but not always) I will not go near crew baggage unless it is a favour usually done for the loadmaster or the A/C if they ask for a little help. 
Of course just because you have to carry your own kit like the rest of us is no excuse for being slack and idle either. I too have had the rucksack, duffel bag and barrack box to carry all at once as well and always find my saluting hand free.


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2007)

Gramps said:
			
		

> As a matter of fact we do not take crew baggage, they are on their own there. I had a bad experience once with a young Nav 2Lt who tried to blame me for him forgetting his NAV Bag in the OPs room in Thule. He lost the argument and I lost all respect for him for teying that crap. Now because of that and other incidents similar to it (usually with new, young OJT aircrew but not always) I will not go near crew baggage unless it is a favour usually done for the loadmaster or the A/C if they ask for a little help.
> Of course just because you have to carry your own kit like the rest of us is no excuse for being slack and idle either. I too have had the rucksack, duffel bag and barrack box to carry all at once as well and always find my saluting hand free.



Thanks for the update gramps. Nice to hear they are carting their own kit now. It's amazing what some of us can do to manage to keep that right hand free. I call it initiative. Now, I'm out of this thread. I hate excuses.


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## medicineman (6 Mar 2007)

If I'm feeling reasonably considerate (which I generally am in my now mellower years), I usually give the poor person concerned with their hands full an eyes left or right to acknowledge they may have some problems using their hands - usually does the trick.

As for favorite transgressions to date, we (us Sgt's on our 6B here) witnessed a WO giving drill to a bunch of baby nursing officers on the school parade square without headress on - a little bug was put in his OC's ear, who called his CSM at home on a day off...well I think you can guess the rest.

We aren't immune to it either.

MM


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## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2007)

If you think I give excuses, that's fine with me, you have the right to your opinion.  

My opinion is that it is stupid to do 2 trips while you can do it in 1 (still looking professional and you can still accept the compliments).  Maybe that is just my common sense though....  

Max


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## I_am_John_Galt (6 Mar 2007)

It's no wonder the army doesn't have the new rain gear, either ... 

P.S> Walking around with a coffee cup held straight down looks awkward, not professional.


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## Strike (6 Mar 2007)

> If I can carry a ruck on my back a barrack box in my left hand...



And that is why one of my friends had to remuster because he screwed up his back.  But he is a completely different story.

On the flight line or the parking lot, or anywhere else for that matter, I will use both hands if the kit is heavy.  I am more concerned with the state of my back (which is not that great as it is) than returning a salute.  Of course, the flight line is generally a non-saluting area unless VIPs are involved.  And I'm also limited by what I can carry based on doctor's orders so the chances of me having both hands full with crap is pretty slim right now -- except for maybe bags of groceries.  



> The traffic techs are already taking it out to the plane for you.



Okay, that is the funniest thing I have read in a long time!  Who are these people?  Can we get some in Tac Hel?  Oh Vern, you need to come over to the Tac Hel side and see how it's really done!  (By the way, not a slight on you.  This is actually really funny.)

By the way, we always have two bags on board in the winter -- one for pubs, chek lists, etc, and the other for personal kit if we get "Stuck" somewhere.

Gramps -- One man one kit!   ;D  I don't know how many stories I've heard about bags being left behind because it was expected that the FE/loadmaster/whoever would load it.  ;D

By the way, I suggest people stop attacking the AF for a little bit.  I don't know how many times I've been at Timmies in Pet and seen the guys buying the 20 some-odd coffees and leaving with their hands full.  It goes both ways people.  Max is not the only one guilty of getting a job done in 1 trip.  By the way, these guys are usually so concerned with not spilling said cargo that they don't even acknowledge officers walking by.  Not all of them of course (I wouldn't want to be guilty of a generalization like a few people here tonight) but a few are guilty of this.


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## Gramps (6 Mar 2007)

Strike said:
			
		

> Gramps -- One man one kit!   ;D  I don't know how many stories I've heard about bags being left behind because it was expected that the FE/loadmaster/whoever would load it.  ;D
> 
> By the way, I suggest people stop attacking the AF for a little bit.  I don't know how many times I've been at Timmies in Pet and seen the guys buying the 20 some-odd coffees and leaving with their hands full.  It goes both ways people.  Max is not the only one guilty of getting a job done in 1 trip.  By the way, these guys are usually so concerned with not spilling said cargo that they don't even acknowledge officers walking by.  Not all of them of course (I wouldn't want to be guilty of a generalization like a few people here tonight) but a few are guilty of this.


The Kicker with that young NAV was that I had not even been near Wing Ops that trip other than to meet the crew to hitch a ride to the lodge.
As for the AF bashing, I used to do a fair bit of it myself (mover1 would be able to confirm that one from when we first met in YZX) however I have matured some over the last 6 or more years working solely on AF bases. I have met some very "switched on" AF pers. and have also had the pleasure of working with some of the most professional people I have ever met. I wear green in a field of blue but it makes no difference. Slackers are slackers and are found everywhere including the Army, we have all met them and maybe even have worked with them. The colour of your DEU means nothing when it comes to personal pride and leadership. Some have it some do not.


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## Devlin (6 Mar 2007)

My biggest pet peeve with the hands full routine was  when a large double double was involved was when troops or officers would show up late for a timing while carrying said double double.....if you had time for the friggin coffee you had time to get here at the proper timing.


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

Devlin said:
			
		

> My biggest pet peeve with the hands full routine was  when a large double double was involved was when troops or officers would show up late for a timing while carrying said double double.....if you had time for the friggin coffee you had time to get here at the proper timing.



Thats a good one actually.See the guy running onto parade and putting his coffe in behind the ranks. :

Followed by:"I got stuck in the drive through and couldnt get out".

Which brings me to another slightly on topic event.The dude that orders bagels in the drive tru.


Lines going quick,lines going quick STOPPAGE! Bagel guy!


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## BitterAndTwisted (6 Mar 2007)

walking around with a coffeee cup is just plain unprofessional get coffee at work *Rant mode on * why is it if you go into any tim hortons there are a huge group of CF members always there just a pet peeve of mine seeing a CF member whose combats are about to burst carrying a box or two of donuts/timbits maybe skipping the line at timmys and hitting the gym would be more productive *rant off* And for saluting once in the morning at work is enough for this guy other than that I shouldnt see an officier because he should be in his office administering his troops welfare.


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## KevinB (6 Mar 2007)

:

Perhaps the most inapporproate and unprofessional issue is bitching about all of this on the 'net.

Check your arms as best you can - and visual and verbally acknowledge -- gee too tough obviously  ...


*dont stop at Timmies on a bugout though -- even if you get in at a good time the CO still is not thrilled when you and a buddy walk by with XL Double Doubles


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## Journeyman (6 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Which brings me to another slightly on topic event.The dude that orders bagels in the drive tru.
> 
> 
> Lines going quick,lines going quick STOPPAGE! Bagel guy!



And just when you thought a right-out of 'er thread couldn't get any more retarded......


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## Strike (6 Mar 2007)

BitterAndTwisted said:
			
		

> walking around with a coffeee cup is just plain unprofessional get coffee at work *Rant mode on * why is it if you go into any tim hortons there are a huge group of CF members always there just a pet peeve of mine seeing a CF member whose combats are about to burst carrying a box or two of donuts/timbits maybe skipping the line at timmys and hitting the gym would be more productive *rant off* And for saluting once in the morning at work is enough for this guy other than that I shouldnt see an officier because he should be in his office administering his troops welfare.



Wow, other than the run-on sentence, where do I start?  I'd have to say that about 90% of the people I see at Timmies are quite fit.  So can we PLEASE stop the generalizations?  And maybe those overweight people have already gone to the gym with their unit for PT.  Who are you to criticise?  (Yes, I was overweight, worked out, and went to Timmies.  Just take out the overweight part and that is me.)

As for the offocer comment, that was just stupid.  I didn't realize that we weren't allowed to take a break once in awhile too.

BTW -- I'm not fond of the coffee at work.



> Lines going quick,lines going quick STOPPAGE! Bagel guy!



 ;D  100% agree!!


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## CdnArtyWife (6 Mar 2007)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> *dont stop at Timmies on a bugout though -- even if you get in at a good time the CO still is not thrilled when you and a buddy walk by with XL Double Doubles



Unless you bring one for him. ;D


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## orange.paint (6 Mar 2007)

Strike said:
			
		

> Wow, other than the run-on sentence, where do I start?  I'd have to say that about 90% of the people I see at Timmies are quite fit.  So can we PLEASE stop the generalizations?  And maybe those overweight people have already gone to the gym with their unit for PT.  Who are you to criticise?  (Yes, I was overweight, worked out, and went to Timmies.  Just take out the overweight part and that is me.)
> 
> As for the offocer comment, that was just stupid.  I didn't realize that we weren't allowed to take a break once in awhile too.
> 
> ...



Agree with your comments as well.
Have you tasted the School's coffee?I usually drink tea,however I usually start off my day with a black coffee or two from Tim's.I've been known to hang out there from time to time with friends.WTF does tims have to do with overweight soldiers?Coffee got zero calories. 



			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> And just when you thought a right-out of 'er thread couldn't get any more retarded......


.....you showed up?


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## Danjanou (6 Mar 2007)

Ok this has been a fun exercise boys and girls but before it starts to head south and the playful interservice and Officer/NCO jibes become somewhat less humerous lets shut er down. 

Usual caveats re why it should be reopened PM a staff meember apply.


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