# Compassion



## zander1976 (13 Apr 2011)

Hello, 

I have read several messages in the area and I wanted to say that perhaps some compassion is in order. Compassion is what separates us from the people we are fighting. Without it then we are just angry people with guns too. Everybody believes they are on the right side and the only way to really be sure is to look for compassion. Canadians have compassion while terrorists don't. 

Their are a few messages that need addressing: 

1. The Canadian Forces doesn't owe you a job. 

Sure this is true and sure you get a lot of people saying why not me. Well come on, any person that has volunteered their life to their country deserves more then a "merry effin Christmas". I am sorry but it came as a huge shock to me when I got a letter denying me. Not because Canada owes me but because I owe Canada. I spent a lot of time thinking about risking my life and convincing family and friends that things would be fine. I never imagined I would get a letter saying sorry your life isn't good enough. 

2. Their are other dreams to follow. 

This isn't McDonalds, you can't simply walk into a different country and say hey I want to join your army. So what is the next option? I guess China, Russia, Columbia or maybe Korea would be interested in hiring. Their is nothing gentile or sympathetic about how you find out you aren't accepted. Their is no contact information, no chance to respond, no call verifying they have a clear understanding, just a "piss off and go to the recruitment center to pick up your crap". For young people dreaming about joining well I can imagine this would be devastating. 

Perhaps, instead of stickying the piss off messages you could instead sticky something constructive like "relax, it happens and here are the steps to resolve the issue". I read tons of messages here and all of them reflect that animosity and hatred that is so common with any messages relating to problems with recruitment. 

Take a few minutes and think about what would happen today if someone walked in and asked you to leave? What would your new dream be? What would you do? Would you be happy? No severance just a letter saying leave? How would you feel when you asked is there something I can do and the response was "yes, piss off".  If being in the army isn't important to you like it is to people trying to get in then why not give up your spot? You can always find a new dream.  

Thank you,
Ben


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## zander1976 (13 Apr 2011)

I love your name Kat Stevens  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDq36YD1ESM

Later


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## ballz (13 Apr 2011)

Thank you for outlining for me what makes me different from "the people we are fighting." And I thought it was because I don't decapitate people.

I think people get empathy here. Some don't deserve all-out compassion, and that includes people that think they are owed a job because they educated or are really good an COD, and that somehow makes them superior to 1) other applicants and 2) the people already in the CF.

I look forward to hearing what other people think of this post, especially the Care-Bears. op:


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## infantryian (13 Apr 2011)

I agree that it can be a major blow to someone who has a dream of being in the Canadian Forces. Some of those that do not make it deserve sympathy and will get it from me, but I don't know how outgoing I will be to express that sympathy to a stranger on the internet. 

My problem with your post is the idea that you cannot serve your country without being in the military. Do you owe Canada enough to volunteer at a soup kitchen or habitat for humanity? Do you owe Canada enough to become a teacher or a doctor? There are many ways to serve this beautiful nation of ours and I think that it is important that people seek out those opportunities.


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## FutureQYR (13 Apr 2011)

Well Zander1976,

    I don't work in recruiting, nor do I know the specifics of your situation. That being said, I can be fairly confident in saying the RC didn't send you a letter telling you to "piss off". 

Perhaps you did not fulfill a physical requirement? if this was the case, the reasoning behind the decision to 'pass off' your application probably had to do with the fact that you could pose a danger to yourself and those around you if you were to say, oh I don't know...collapse of exhaustion during a section attack, or were unable to complete a foot recce through thick bush. The same could be said for the CFAT or medical. Your (recognized) inability to carry out a task, be it physically/intellectually/mentally strenuous could result in not only your own injury or death, but perhaps that of those around you. If you were denied enrollment based on prior drug use or something else of that nature you can generally follow the same reasoning. 

They didn't send you packing because they didn't like your face, you were obviously turned away because you didn't fullfill one of the requirements.

If whatever problem you had cannot be solved (i.e fitness, education), I strongly recommend finding a new passion before you find yourself sour and depressed. Perhaps try for something else that involves making a difference (policing, firefighter, paramedic, social worker, etc.)

I'm not going to pretend for a second to know what it was like getting a letter turning you down, it must have been devastating. But on the other hand I can tell you I wouldn't have slugged around Army.ca professing to everyone how "incompassionat" (?) they are for a decision they had nothing to do with, and a recruiting system they probably didn't create.


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## Journeyman (13 Apr 2011)

Once again, I wade into a Recruiting thread    :brickwall:




			
				zander1976 said:
			
		

> Perhaps, instead of stickying the piss off messages you could instead sticky something constructive like "relax, it happens and here are the steps to resolve the issue". I read tons of messages here and all of them reflect that animosity and hatred that is so common with any messages relating to problems with recruitment.


I would wager that most of the animosity you perceive is not due to dislike directed towards the poster of any "woe is me" saga. Rather, I suspect there are two major reasons:

1) The individual's tale has been told so many times, and the poster has, for whatever reason (seldom flattering) not bothered to search the site for similar circumstances. Sorry, but the military has developed an ethos of "not suffering fools gladly." If you understand the nature of our calling, you'll understand why we need people able to think clearly, and show initiative, for the sake of the soldiers around them.....and writ large, for the national interest.

2) The hand-wringing poster has laid out a case where clearly, to everyone but them, they are unsuited to military service. We actually deploy to places where there is minimal support, and your fellow troops depend on you to be at maximum capability. If you come here complaining that you need routine dialysis, have only one leg, and you insist on a Zoroastrian diet......but the mean, nasty military is obviously out to screw you over....sorry, this may not be your most sympathetic audience.


So Zander1976, I'm sorry that you see CF members as being such totally heartless dicks, based upon your extensive reading of one non-official site. Some of us have held compatriots during moments of real anguish. Many, if not most of us, have seen hard-core soldiers crying during ramp ceremonies. Quite a few of us have lost people we've loved, and felt that the world is a lesser place for their absence.

Sorry if the postings here don't meet your standards of compassion. Some of us live in the real world.


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## dimsum (13 Apr 2011)

Sapperian said:
			
		

> My problem with your post is the idea that you cannot serve your country without being in the military. Do you owe Canada enough to volunteer at a soup kitchen or habitat for humanity? Do you owe Canada enough to become a teacher or a doctor? There are many ways to serve this beautiful nation of ours and I think that it is important that people seek out those opportunities.



Quoted for truth. 



			
				zander1976 said:
			
		

> Take a few minutes and think about what would happen today if someone walked in and asked you to leave? What would your new dream be? What would you do? Would you be happy? No severance just a letter saying leave? How would you feel when you asked is there something I can do and the response was "yes, piss off".  If being in the army isn't important to you like it is to people trying to get in then why not give up your spot? You can always find a new dream.



Not getting into the CF and the example above aren't the same.  At all.  Getting rejected from the CF isn't the same as getting fired when you're already serving.

Sorry for being denied service in the CF.  However, I'm fairly certain that most people, at one point, have been denied what they thought was "their dream", only to find that either:

a)  Their dream didn't actually work that way in reality (I saw a lot of that with my airline friends)
b)  They loved what they ended up doing


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## FutureQYR (13 Apr 2011)

zander1976 said:
			
		

> I guess China, Russia, Columbia or maybe Korea would be interested in hiring.



I also get the general impression your reasons for joining are not as sincere as you make them seem. If your so patriotic, why is it your so quick to jump to the topic of joining 'questionable' foriegn militaries?


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2011)

zander1976 said:
			
		

> Compassion is what separates us *you* from the people we *you* are fighting.



I amended your post, for obvious reasons.

As for the rest, life is just like that. learn to live with disapointment.



> I never imagined I would get a letter saying sorry your life isn't good enough



That is not what that letter said, but i will give you an "A" in being over-dramatic.



> Their is nothing gentile or sympathetic about how you find out you aren't accepted



It is not much different anywhere else. Welcome to real life.



> For young people dreaming about joining well I can imagine this would be devastating



 :crybaby:



> You can always find a new dream



So can you so let it go and follow your own advice. Get over it.


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## lethalLemon (13 Apr 2011)

This is the same fellow who said...



> Basic Training / Re: Do I have to do ceremonies?
> « on: April 11, 2011, 03:22:11 »
> Hey,
> 
> ...



 :


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## BDTyre (13 Apr 2011)

I received three rejection letters, yet I still made it. Rejection doesn't mean the end of the line, situation dependant. I was rejected medically, and I eventually got in. The top medical staff initially tried to tell me I had exercise-induced asthma...three times. And when I finally got in...I've never had any issues with being able to perform my job.

Maybe you weren't rejected for medical reason...maybe for something else. A rejection doesn't always mean you can't be part of the CF. Maybe it just means you need to change something in your life.  Without the details, none of us here can help you.

That said...and here is where I could be blamed for lack of compassion...you received one rejection letter and seemingly gave up, posted here and wanted us to hold your hand and soothe you. I received my first rejection letter and the first thing I did was get on the phone to my recruiter.


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## FutureQYR (13 Apr 2011)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> That said...and here is where I could be blamed for lack of compassion...you received one rejection letter and seemingly gave up, posted here and wanted us to hold your hand and soothe you. I received my first rejection letter and the first thing I did was get on the phone to my recruiter.



 :nod:


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## zander1976 (13 Apr 2011)

Hey, 

Opps, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I would have like to have been. I am not devastated, I haven't even finished appealing it yet. I was actually wading through this forum trying to find information on the process. I am well aware that the real word isn't fair, etc.. . Kat Stevens rant was understandable, harsh but certainly understandable but I don't think anybody deserved the  "MERRY EFFIN' CHRISTMAS" especially people that are following proper procedure. Stickies usually have the answer so I read them but in this case they aren't that pleasant. I really should have just posted the question for the millionth time then since I would have expected to be told off. 




			
				lethalLemon said:
			
		

> This is the same fellow who said...
> :


Yes panic attacks, I just finished watching a tv show "off the map" that talked about it like everything else I was doing some research on it when I ran into his post. I wanted to give him something to look into. 



			
				YoungQYR said:
			
		

> I also get the general impression your reasons for joining are not as sincere as you make them seem. If your so patriotic, why is it your so quick to jump to the topic of joining 'questionable' foriegn militaries?



Well if your own country wouldn't accept you then what other legitimate army would? It's logic not malicious. 


			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> Once again, I wade into a Recruiting thread    :brickwall:
> 
> I'm sorry that you see CF members as being such totally heartless dicks, based upon your extensive reading of one non-official site. Some of us have held compatriots during moments of real anguish. Many, if not most of us, have seen hard-core soldiers crying during ramp ceremonies. Quite a few of us have lost people we've loved, and felt that the world is a lesser place for their absence.
> 
> Sorry if the postings here don't meet your standards of compassion. Some of us live in the real world.



Nah, I actually enjoy this forum although the medical section is a rough area. You have to wade through a lot of posts to find what you are looking for. I am new and this section has been around for a long time so after millions of the same question people stopped playing nice. 

I actually do volunteer work thank you. I am actually working on prefab house designs for Habitat for Humanity. The goal is to help reduce the cost and improve speed and simplicity of the build a house. A do it yourself house kit if you will. I spend time designing vertical turbines and solar equipment and release all information freely. I am constantly lobbying the government regarding energy policies. I speak at rehab centers and would like to setup a scholarship fund for troubled adults. I spent time designing courses for game development starting at junior high to university and I host troubled teens to help them complete high school. I tutor mathematics for adult education as well. No, I am not a doctor but I am working on becoming one in science through distance education. 

Ben


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## FutureQYR (13 Apr 2011)

You are by far the most confusing, and potentially unstable person I have enountered on any topic, inside any thread, contained in this site. Sort yourself out.

I bid good day to you.


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2011)

zander1976 said:
			
		

> I don't think anybody deserved the  "MERRY EFFIN' CHRISTMAS"



That is not what you got....get over it. You got told "no".............just like some people get " we are unable to offer you employment at this time".




> especially people that are following proper procedure.



Following procedures does not mean you get a job. This should be fairly obvious.

I'm going to be blunt 9 i know i will get some -milpoints for it) but here :

SEEK LIFE ELSEWHERE !!!


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## zander1976 (13 Apr 2011)

As for me, no there are tons of reasons I would not get in but I am going to continue to try. I have been work as a firewall admin, linux/unix server admin and software developer for 20 or so years now. I am an alcoholic that quit drinking 3 years ago, smoker that quit a few months ago to get ready to get into the military. I am a workaholic even while I was drinking I spent my time developing software or working on servers. 

I use to be really bad for working 12-16 hours a day living off coffee and cigarettes. I smoked 3 packs a day and drank around 20 or so coffee a day. I would get headaches from dehydration after days of doing nothing but drinking coffee and working. After I quit drinking I started taking paxil to deal with anxiety and I still take it. Why mess with a good thing. I get a prescription on a yearly bases. I don't have a doctor so a clinic filled out my paperwork. They refused me for weekly headaches and anxiety problems and having follow ups. I don't even know what a follow up is. I get medication from a clinic where they don't even know who I am or barely anyway. 

These days I run 3 times a week, strength train twice a week, I will be starting to swim soon and I even eat healthy. Its been a huge change in my life and even if I don't get in all of this will be for the better anyway.. 

Thanks, Ben


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## zander1976 (13 Apr 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> That is not what you got....get over it. You got told "no".............just like some people get " we are unable to offer you employment at this time".
> 
> 
> Following procedures does not mean you get a job. This should be fairly obvious.
> ...



Sorry, I think there is come confusion between the letter I recieved and the sticky in this forum. I was talking about 

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91259.0.html



> I have been a member of this forum for a couple or three years now, and there is one thing that gets up my nose faster than my pinkie finger;  potential recruits who believe that they are the most unique, precious gem in the world, and the CF should be begging them to join.  Whatever medical issue you have that you feel a special case should be made, you're wrong.  There are standards, there are procedures, and there are rules.  Meet them, follow them, and obey them.  If you do that, you may get in, if not, you won't.  There is no shortcut, no special treatment.  The CF does not owe you a job, no matter how special and unique you may think you are.
> 
> MERRY EFFIN' CHRISTMAS



The procedure I was talking about was the fact that I didn't post a new message. I instead read the stickies and searched the forum but that turned out to be a bad idea. 



			
				YoungQYR said:
			
		

> You are by far the most confusing, and potentially unstable person I have enountered on any topic, inside any thread, contained in this site. Sort yourself out.
> 
> I bid good day to you.



Sorry if that was confusing for you. My original message was to ask that people have compassion for all people but some people seem to think I was actually wanting people to be sympathetic towards me. I was using me as an example and I am certainly not looking for sympathy. I was defending the new people that are crazy enough to ask a question like "I get refused what do I do now".


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## Sythen (13 Apr 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I amended your post, for obvious reasons.



This is something that really urkes me.. Although you are a serving member, who have you personally fought CDN Aviator? How many people have you shot at, or been shot at from? 11 years as a Combat Engineer, so maybe some. But we are all in this together, whether Canadian civilian or serving member. Last time I checked, the tax payer funds everything we do. I hate when people in the military try to look down on those who are not. The part of his post you "amended" was fine the way it was.


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## taerakwon (13 Apr 2011)

Try your best
You don't need any compassion because I believe this is your chance to realize how great person you are
If you fall, just get up and run.
If you never give up, you will always end up in your destination
Do your best, that's all I can say.


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## Scott (13 Apr 2011)

Sythen said:
			
		

> This is something that really urkes me.. Although you are a serving member, who have you personally fought CDN Aviator? How many people have you shot at, or been shot at from? 11 years as a Combat Engineer, so maybe some. But we are all in this together, whether Canadian civilian or serving member. Last time I checked, the tax payer funds everything we do. I hate when people in the military try to look down on those who are not. The part of his post you "amended" was fine the way it was.



I think you're picking fly shit from pepper. I didn't get any sense that he was looking down on anyone at all, but that's just me.

Please, instead of derailing what is already going to be a complete gongshow of a thread, report the post if it pisses you off that badly and have a mod sort it out.


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## Scott (13 Apr 2011)

And before the gong sounds any louder I am going to lock this one up. Usual caveats.

I changed my avatar to show I care and it goes unnoticed in this thread... :-[

zander, just because a few people do not show you enough of what you want does not make them wrong. Consider the amount of personal stroies we hear, and also the vehemence we get when someone is told the word "no".

I am sorry we cannot sugar coat it any more than that.


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