# News Item on Reserves 12 Mar 04



## logau (13 Mar 2004)

Hey! I scooped you!

From Globe and Mail - 12 Mar 04

Canada‘s reserves to act as a homeland defence force: senior official 

Winnipeg â â€ Canada‘s army reserves will be trained and equipped as a homeland defence force that could respond to terrorist threats, including chemical, biological and nuclear attacks, says a senior defence official in Ottawa.

It‘s just one part of an expanded role for the reserves that will see the part-time soldiers forge deeper links with civil authorities such as police and firefighting forces, said Maj.-Gen. Ed Fitch, commander of the Land Force Reserve Restructure project.

That new role will lead to a better response to domestic emergencies, Maj.-Gen. Fitch said in an interview this week from Ottawa.

Other plans call for the creation of armed security platoons that could be deployed within hours to support civil authorities, Maj.-Gen. Fitch said.

"It‘s all about getting the army ready for this century of surprises, and the reserves have an important part in that.

"The reserves have been left out of anything transformational for the last 30 or 40 years, but we‘ve woken up and we‘re moving quickly to make sure they‘re relevant, sustainable and viable."

There are about 15,000 reserve soldiers in Canada. Plans are to raise that number to 18,500 by 2006. Critics say the number should be at least 25,000.

While the risk of a terrorist attack, either domestic or foreign in origin, may be low, Maj.-Gen. Fitch said it‘s the job of the military "to imagine the unimaginable and put preparations in place."

"Look at Madrid," he said, referring to terrorist attacks Thursday that killed at least 190 people and wounded almost 1,500.

Two 30-member, reserve-force platoons being trained in Canada‘s capital region will demonstrate their skills in front of key national policy-makers during a cross-training exercise with civil agencies this fall, the general said.

The plan is to provide similar skills and the necessary equipment to reserve units located in 115 communities across the country, a process that could take several years, Maj.-Gen. Fitch explained.

There is a question about how many new skills can be "stuffed into a part-time soldier," he acknowledged, but added skills will be tailored to the needs of local communities.

The regular army recently established a 150-soldier-strong company in Trenton, Ont., to deal exclusively with biological, chemical and nuclear threats.

The unit would respond to an attack anywhere in Canada, but it could take a few days before it was deployed as the army would wait to see if it was an isolated attack, Maj.-Gen. Fitch explained. Local emergency crews would be the first responders.

"I think there‘s going to be a great demand for security, and that demand will quickly go beyond what your local police force can manage," he said.

However, the reserves, who are spread out thinly across the country, are not the total answer, Maj.-Gen. Fitch added.

"But we can have a good effect in some places."

National Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan has announced a series of initiatives to boost security. They mainly involve a reconfiguration of several security agencies and a promise to increase the number of reserve troops available to handle disasters and other emergencies.


----------



## Yes Man (13 Mar 2004)

Well It looks as if I enlisted at a good time.


----------



## Aaron (13 Mar 2004)

This is good.  I‘m glad to see the Federal Gov‘t finally seeing the reserves as capable of handling the ‘tough‘ jobs.  I look forward to seeing what type of new reforms will be coming our (the reserves) way over the next few years.


----------



## 1feral1 (13 Mar 2004)

In Australia, its called th RRF (Reserve Reaction Force, and has been effective since Nov 03, and work up trg in 2 Div, was commenced back in Sep 03.

Its to guard ‘likely targeted‘ areas, such as dams, power stns, nations icons (Harbour Bridge, Opera House, etc), and a variety of terrorist threat related duties.

Other units such as SF are deployed now in Sydney, on a 24hr watch, as sadly, there is a direct threat of attack here. The PM says its a matter of time.

Cheers,

Wes

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## The_Falcon (13 Mar 2004)

They keep trying to do something like that in 32 Brigade.  We have a Domestice Response Company.  In theory each Infantry unit is supposed to have a platoons worth of soldiers ready to go at a moments notice for this DRC. Last time we did anything was about two years ago and it was a gaglef***.


----------



## Harris (15 Mar 2004)

I gotta say, I‘ll believe this when I see it.  Since we don‘t have enough equipment, money or time now to do our "normal" training, I‘m not sure how we are going to fit any extra training in.  Maybe if the MLOC stuff were pared down.  I‘m having a hard time getting my support weapons serviced, and having running trucks.  Time will tell I guess.


----------



## logau (15 Mar 2004)

There‘s a theory in project management which goes like this - what you should do is travel the shortest distance between two points. What we in DND end up doing is apeing the government by not investing in any capability --> ie: how we went from capable in the 1960s to a burned out hulk of capabilities in the 2000s.

What does it take to get back on that line? LOTS OF CASH! Which is going into the health care system and every jinked up vote getting government program ever dreamed up by Gene and his minions.

So when will it all change? When the martians land or when Georgie Bush sends the cash up here, and I am a dual USA Cdn passport holder.

Sad news is - Georgie doesn‘t need us to do anyting - as Gene used to say.

Say! Do I see the computers in the Rideau Canal?


----------



## Devlin (15 Mar 2004)

How about some job protection for those of us who would have to leave our civilian jobs to participate in an sort of emergency?


----------



## Engineer Corporal (15 Mar 2004)

I agree the jobs should be federally insured like the american‘s.


----------



## bossi (15 Mar 2004)

Yup - job protection of some sort would be nice - I just got back from Afghanistan, and as of Wednesday I‘ll be on unemployment insurance (my five-year-old son‘s birthday - nice touch, eh?)


----------



## fleeingjam (15 Mar 2004)

Happy Birthday to Bossi‘s Five year old son
(Sorry if this is offenive)
I guess this is for the better and I beleive I enlisted at the right time but when are we gonna find our if our units doin the new stuff?


----------



## Infanteer (15 Mar 2004)

Funny, an Army Reserve that can‘t afford C9 ammo can specialize as a terrorist response unit.  Lets work on fire and movement first and leave this for the big boys.


----------



## Gunner (15 Mar 2004)

> an Army Reserve that can‘t afford C9 ammo


Sure we can but you infantry guys keep making spent casings out of live ammo.  Can we not keep it on the shelf for awhile?


----------



## portcullisguy (15 Mar 2004)

Gunner, this whole issue of having the ammunition to train properly was highlighted today on my DP2A machine gunner course.

We have very few proficient MGers in our unit, even though several have taken MG courses and fired many thousands of rounds through the C6 and C9.

The reason?  It takes practice and lots of it to maintain good MG skills.  Apparently, it can take up to 3 days of running the PWT on the C9 to get a sufficient number of people passing it -- they almost all fail on the first two days.  Most reserve infantry units can‘t afford the time and ammunition to run C9‘s for three days on a range, and usually you get one full range day a year (ELOC/MLOC/whatever it‘s called).

An infantry unit‘s task is usually to field X number of C6‘s and C9‘s, and the riflemen to support and protect them.  If the gunners can‘t hit the target consistently, then there seems to be little value in centering the protection around them as is done.

It takes money to buy the ammo and get the gunners proficient.

I am sure this is the same situation in the artillery.  Your task is to get rounds down range, everything else is ancillary.  Every pde night or work period you are not putting rounds down range is of secondary importance.

Do I expect us to be having a range weekend every week, then?  No.  The other training is also very important.  But we shouldn‘t lose focus of our primary task.


----------



## Gunner (15 Mar 2004)

Note     in my last post.  I think it means tongue firmly in cheek.


----------



## Infanteer (15 Mar 2004)

I was just talking about blank rounds for a militia concentration to boot.


----------



## bossi (16 Mar 2004)

A key component of several counter-terrorism plans in Canada is to maintain public confidence (i.e. avoid panic in the aftermath of a terrorist event - whereas "anti-terrorist" is more pre-emptive ... let‘s not kid ourselves - these reserve platoons wouldn‘t be anti-terrorist units, they‘d simply be for the aftermath) - thus, if anything were to happen there‘d be the usual "... where‘s the Army when we need them ..." - so, it‘s not the dumbest idea in the world to have a "show of force" on the shelf, ready to go.

Hmmm ... here‘s a fictional story if anybody needs a quick fix of junk food reading:

It couldn‘t happen here, could it?


----------



## Spr.Earl (17 Mar 2004)

All‘s the Pl.‘s would be used for would be perimiter security while the boy‘s in black did their job or protection of vital asset‘s in the extreme senerio i.e total alert.IMO
What else could they do?
Any more suggestion‘s?


----------



## Jarnhamar (17 Mar 2004)

The PWT for the C9 is pretty dumb.  Your taking an area effect weapon and are trying to go for accuracy.

I think we need (in the infantry anyway) need to keep up to date on all the weapons organic to an infantry platoon more than once a year. Theres no excuse for trained privates forgetting their drills, let alone corporals.

Simply put we need to do more range and field shooting.


----------



## Spr.Earl (17 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Ghost778:
> [qb] The PWT for the C9 is pretty dumb.  Your taking an area effect weapon and are trying to go for accuracy.
> 
> I think we need (in the infantry anyway) need to keep up to date on all the weapons organic to an infantry platoon more than once a year. Theres no excuse for trained privates forgetting their drills, let alone corporals.
> ...


Ghost when I read 3 day‘s to pass PWT for C9 I thought "Are they dummies?"
I‘m M.G. qualified right up to .50 and still use the .50 even today (QCB).
C6 and C9 are a piece of cake compared to the .50
I still think that the infantry still should be taught the .50 and have them.

As you say "all organic weapons" they are your tool‘s of the trade and you must use them.
I still know the C6,C9 and .50 and fire the 6 and  50 at least once a year and my drill‘s are second nature and I know how to completly strip all of them and repair them with the complete issue kit with spare parts.

It‘s money and time and that‘s why we are getting substanded training and substanded soldiers today.We can‘t blame the new kid‘s as the don‘t know any differant but you and I do.

Let‘s see if Paul keep‘s his word.


----------



## muskrat89 (17 Mar 2004)

OK - Back to the topic. 
If the Government is trying to use the Militia as full time Counter-Terror Units, then obviously, this is doomed to fail, like a lot of other "flavour-of-the-week"s. BUT, if they are trying to provide some training so the reserves can assist after a terrorist attack, or even a natural disaster - then I‘m all for it. Remember, we‘re talking extreme events here. Properly trained? No one was properly trained for 9/11. I doubt people will be properly trained for the next event, either. Better equipped/trained possibly to deal with the event - but since no one knows what for sure it will be - there will always be room for improvement.

In my civvie job, I am involved with security, Hazmat stuff, fire protection, etc. One thing they are doing here in the US is developing CERT teams - civilian emergency response teams. Basically, it‘s like having a community fanout system to assist in natural disasters, WMD strikes, etc. The jist is that the authorities are predicting that first responders, even in big cities like mine will be overwhelmed, during some incidents, and whole communities may be "on their own" for days. The CERT teams receive about 40 hours of training. Basically, they develop networks in the community, where they learn who all of the medical people are; who the carpenters, plumbers, electricians are; who the engineers are. People that they can round up in an emergency, organize, and assist the citizens until help arrives.

Aid to Civil Power has always been a potential mission of the reserves (official or not). I think - as long as this doesn‘t replace their primary mission, and as long as the Govt‘s expectations aren‘t too grandiose, that this is for once, a common sense idea. A Reserve Unit already has infrastructure in place. They have a fanout system (snowball). They can be self-sustained with comms, rations, vehicles, weapons, etc. It only makes sense to give some kind of training to Reserve Units. Military units already in place, in the communities. Surely if Civilians (CERT) can be of assistance - then the Militia can do better?

I think a reasonable plan would: help the first responders in time of disaster, help the Unit by giving them exposure in the Community, and help the troops by giving them something new/interesting/valuable to focus on.

Coinicidentally, I (and as a lowly civilian) am attending a 3 day seminar on "Threat and Risk Assesments for WMD/Terror attacks" next week. How to work with first responders, FEMA, etc.

We tend to speak in ideals. Won‘t be properly trained. Troops won‘t show up. They will need job protection. We are talking about catastrophic events. ANY help, especially with some organization, will be appreciated. Sorry for the lengthy post. Living in the US has given me, I think, a slightly different perspective of terrorism. Add to the fact I deal with this, on a small level, in my civvie job AND the fact that I always felt, in the Militia that Aid To Civil Power was a valuable niche for us....


----------



## GhostRecce (17 Mar 2004)

yeah i did the c9 pwt this year, just like a c7 pwt. run down and all


----------



## Brad Sallows (17 Mar 2004)

>Aid to Civil Power has always been a potential mission of the reserves (official or not).

A bit of a nitpick, but as policy, it has not.  "Aid" implies "armed".  What has always been a potential mission is "Assistance".  ("Aid" and "Assistance" have very explicit meanings in the domestic operations lexicon.)

The notion of armed domestic security conducted by reservists is quite a sea change.  The difference of course is that presumably the estimate is situated in the context of anti-terrorism, not riot control.


----------



## bossi (17 Mar 2004)

Bang on, Brad!
Assistance to Civil Authorities can be sand-bagging during floods, or using military vehicles during an ice storm.
Aid To The Civil Power is armed assistance, and you‘re absolutely correct when you state it would be "quite a sea change" ...
However, we also have to be aware of minute distinctions between "anti-" and "counter-" terrorism activities (to the casual onlooker, these may seem just a difference in semantics, but they‘re not to people with training who work in this field).  In the civilian emergency management world, counter-terrorism refers more to the actions taken in response to a terrorist event - and, one of the most important principles is to maintain public confidence.  Thus, a "show of force" might sometimes be useful, or even necessary (plus, it takes some of the media attention away from other organisations who prefer to work in the shadows, vice the front page ... and, please - let‘s not launch into ANOTHER diatribe about the Dwyer Hill Highlanders, okay?)
Blurb on National Anti-Terrorism Act

Blurb on Counter-Terrorism


----------



## muskrat89 (18 Mar 2004)

Well, semantics aside - and whether it is an extension or re-definition of the current mission - I think there‘s a way that the Reserves can fit in, and play a real role either after a terrorist attack, or during a natural disaster. I pre-qualified my statements by saying that they will never be counter-terror Units; on that, we all agree. It is interesting that some people seem to imply that the Militia can be of no help at all, while here in the US, they see a value in Civilian Response Teams - with no infrastructure, and little training.


----------



## Harris (5 Apr 2004)

Muskrat89, Bossi, et al,

While I agree %100 with your comments I still have a concern that what the Govt is planning, and what my troops are capable of are two different things.

Armed aid to the civil power- My soldiers are keen, hard working, and eager, but not trained to the level where I would feel comfortable with them acting in this capicity.  They (andI) have not been trained, nor exposed to this type of scenario.  We require a lot of training (which = $ and time we don‘t have) before we could do this properly.

Assistance to the civil power- No problem here.  As a matter of fact we now have focised on this aspect and are slowly gathering equipment and knowledge for this very task.  If the call were to go out I‘m sure I‘d get at least 80% of my soldiers responding within 48 hours.

My 2 cents worth


----------



## Rick_Donald (30 Apr 2004)

Ever since the 1700‘s the militia‘s and reserves have been the victims of the government‘s tight pursestrings. This has led to poorly trained soldiers, needless death and general confusion under fire. The regular forces has always looked down their noses at these reserve forces. Enemy commander‘s, when faced with a civilian/militia force, often walk right over these forces. This will continue to happen until both the government and DND recognize this serious error and allocate the neccesary funds to train our reserve forces. This also takes a great deal of time.Legislated job protection and income supplimentation is  required to achieve these goals set out by the Canadian government.
These men and women want and deserve this treatment for stepping up to the plate and offering their services to Canada. To hold down a full time job, provide for a family and take up arms to defend their country should demand respect from all quarters.
To put them in the line of fire before achieving this is murder and criminal.
  To attempt to achieve these goals without taking this into consideration will only amount to failure.


----------



## Bill Smy (1 May 2004)

I can recall during the Cold War the powers to be decided that any hot war would be over before the Reserves could be called up. They then articulated the "forces in being" policy. Knowing that they could not sell disbanding the Reserves they assigned them to National Survival tasks (rescue, traffic control, etc).

Having sold that to everyone, then it was logical that there were no requirements to classify on personal weapons, conduct tactical exercises, do any type of support weapon training, drive any type of vehicle other than 3/4 and 2 1/2 ton trucks. Even summer concentrations were limited, and focused on first aid, ropes and knots, etc.

In this Assistance to the Civil Authority proposal I can see the spectre of National Survival. Who is going to confront the terrorist here in Canada? The police of course (forces in being). Who is going to go through the rubble looking for survivors? Guess. 

If that is going to the role of the Reserves we had better start teaching how to prop up structures, ropes and latters, handle fire hoses,etc. And how soon do you think it will take to argue that there is no requirement for ammunition, armoured vehicles, tactical exercises, and even if there was a requirement how is that going to fit into a forty day training cycle when, of course, the primary tasking is Assistance to the Civil Authority?


----------



## logau (1 May 2004)

You could be very right. If you measure the $ assigned to reserves it seems to be getting sma_l_er. We have to get a small website going called www.LiddleHartliveson.ca or something - that can promote reserves............... forget that - that can demote the regulars....... show its a charlatan show....... trouble is what they do is far from most people‘s experience..... just a random thought here - this week I was at the tomb of the unknown soldier taking a picture of it for my WW1 websites... 2 girls came up and said what‘s this? On of the two said - oh they found some guy and reburied him... then they merrily went on to meet their little boyfriends. 

My point being that whereas in the USA or UK where there is a memorial to a VC or local soldier in every urinal in every pub in the land - here in Canada there is a billion dollars being shovelled out to have summer concerts for the local pseudo pop star.....

Canadians need 4 times as much money to get to what the Brits call their starved out level of funding. Until that happens everyone has to work at finding ways of doing more with less. HO CHI MINH and the Vietnam Army did it so what could we do - in the cost cutting effectiveness mode?

I believe that there are certain things that won`t change without a river of money - i.e.: eqpt - looks like the standard for light vehs is now Armoured Humvees - you can imagine what the new ILTIS replacements will look like when they finally meet some rag tag army.

Why not start with the obvious questions ----- why are not reserves paid 1 for 1 based on their experience and REG FORCE led training - simply put the best encouragement to parity pay is get the courses - do the time - get the pay. and maybe get a bonus. like the Brits?

Trouble is - the base of the reserves is young guys and gals who aren‘t around long enough to get influence and the top of the Pyramid has very little influence. I mean look where the priorities of the government are - healthcare - UNITY at an estimated burn rate of 2 to 3 million bucks a week in perpetuity.

No matter what you want to do - the cost of the Army will always be a big item, you want to keep the expertise in the regulars and as a government it would not seem illogical to ransack the reserves to so it, gets you about 200 million in pay - if you need to rebuild it will probably take you three years (based on Brit experience in WW2 in North Africa ---- YES!!!! I have a new paper for you all to read soon!)


----------

