# Common Law, training and Pat Platoon!



## Air Force Medic (18 Sep 2005)

Hi there hope someone can answer a few questions.  We have all the Common Law papers signed off, in basic now, then it's like a deep dark place, what happens after basic some say there is SQ some say no, or maybe.  Also is there anyway to find out when trade training courses for Medic's are slated.  We are just trying to get a handle on how long we may have to live apart.  Where would Pat Platoon be held, we know we have to be apart right now but honestly it's difficult not knowing anything as we can not make imformed decisions on anything right now. Sorry this is so long but I just have so many questions. Any help would be sooooooo thankful.


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## Fry (19 Sep 2005)

You're in the same boat as me man... I'm wondering what'll happen after Basic and when it'll happen.


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## Shadow Cat (19 Sep 2005)

Alright my Dh just graduated from Basic in June so I can tell you about our scenerio. 

Day after graduation, you will be loaded onto a bus, very early in the morning, that will take you to PAT.   IN my hubby's case it is Borden.   Once there you will be informed of when your next course is and if you have some time between your next course than you can fill out papers to return home for vacation.   In my hubby's case he was in Borden for a week and than he started SQ.   He was in Gagetown for 7 weeks.   ONce that was complete he was granted two weeks of leave.   He now is sitting in Borden waiting for his trade training to start which is December 1st.   He will graduated on May 26th I believe.   He will be coming home for two weeks at XMAS.

When it is all said and done we will be apart for one year, one month and 16 days.   This is of course just the time till the end of the course and I know that there will still be some seperation afterwards due to moving and stuff.

He is in the process of trying to get us moved up to Kingston but there is no guarantee as the course is no technically long enough only, five and half months instead of the required 6 months.   They are trying to get it approved based on the fact that he coudl do EWAT training up till his course starts which would put us over the six month mark.   

Hope that this gives you a little bit of a better understanding what you are faced with.   As well tell your spouse to check out www.themitarylife.com as it has really helped me to make it through the initial shock of seperation.   Everyone there is very understanding and supportive and you never know she may make a friend.   I know I have.


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## Air Force Medic (19 Sep 2005)

Hey Shadown Cat, thanks so much for the information.  I guess that's why recruiting won't tell you anything huh!  Well I will check out those sites and see what I can find out. Oh I should say I'm the one left at home but as we have no dependants I wouldn't mind moving up there just to be closer, does he get week-ends off and oh do you know how long the B.C portion of training would be, I've heard 2 weeks and 13 weeks.  Thanks for all your help.


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## Shadow Cat (19 Sep 2005)

I have no idea how long the training portion for his course is.  Sorry.

The first four weeks of Basic and SQ he will be confind to the base/barracks.  After that as long as he "behaves" himself, he will be allowed out for the weekend.  I can't tell you if they are confind during their trade training as I have no idea as of yet.

If his course is only 13 weeks or 2 weeks they won't pay for you to move.  In order to be with him you would have to pay for the move your self.  

Trust me I know how hard it is to be seperated from your loved one for so long.  It is very trying on some days and sometimes it hurts to bad that you just don't want to get out of bed and somedays you feel like a milltion bucks.  It is a rollercoaster ride of emotions that is for sure.  Make sure that you check out that link that I provided as it is truley a great wealth of information and support.  My username is marsbull on there so feel free to look for me.

Chin up girl it will be all over before you know.  I am 1/3 of the way and it feels like I just started.


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## Air Force Medic (19 Sep 2005)

Bravo, well said but I don't mind putting things in storage if I have too. I won't expect them to pay for anything either, if we can we would rather do that than spend so long apart. Thanks for everything and for sure i'll try checking out that site.


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## D-n-A (19 Sep 2005)

Air Force doesn't do SQ.


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## Air Force Medic (20 Sep 2005)

Thanks MikeL, that was another thing I kept trying to find out, again some say Air Force do SQ and others say no, at least Medics in the Air Force anyway, perhaps it depends which unit your supporting.


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## Shadow Cat (22 Sep 2005)

I am sorry I didn't realize that he was air force. I guess I should have looked at his/her user name.   :-[


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## Air Force Medic (23 Sep 2005)

What I don't understand now that I know the training is 16 weeks in Borden and 13 weeks in B.C. that is over 6 months so why would they not allow me to move up to Borden also and have a PMQ.  Thanks for the help everyone.


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## George Wallace (23 Sep 2005)

Air Force Medic said:
			
		

> What I don't understand now that I know the training is 16 weeks in Borden and 13 weeks in B.C. that is over 6 months so why would they not allow me to move up to Borden also and have a PMQ.   Thanks for the help everyone.


  I might suggest you recheck your math.


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## Air Force Medic (23 Sep 2005)

Well in checking I may be wrong but I added both together came up with 29 divided it by 4 and came up with 7.25 months.  Do you meen I should just look at them as individual courses.


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## George Wallace (23 Sep 2005)

Exactly.......Borden is not in BC.


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## Air Force Medic (23 Sep 2005)

Got Ya.......I like my math better though.   :-\


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## Tracker (23 Sep 2005)

I believe that all Med Techs do SQ regardless of their element.


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## Shadow Cat (26 Sep 2005)

I know it is a long time to be seperated.

I know of a few people that have been seperated for 18+ months when it is all said and done.   The military member has been located at a base that they already know that they are going to be posted to but they wont move the family until all of their training is completed.  Totally retarded if you ask me.  

Us we are looking at 14+ months when it is all said and done.  Of which this time would include 4 months at PAT and 6 months at the location of his QL3's.  

Welcome to the military.   :


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## Air Force Medic (26 Sep 2005)

Hey Shadow Cat, if you ask me it's cruel, also why don't they let people know up front so they are better able to make the decision to enter or not. It must be hard on relationships to not only survive the separation but to make decisions about employment, housing, schooling etc. I feel like my life is on hold until we know what the military has planned for my spouse.


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## beach_bum (26 Sep 2005)

First of all, why would they spend all the money to move and uproot a family when no one knows if that person will be successful or not?  What happens if Bloggins and his family move to Gagetown (just an example) and on week three Bloggins fails?
Secondly, the military doesn't even know most of the time where Bloggins is going to be posted until sometime during their 3s.  That would be one of the reasons they can't tell you in advance.  People are posted where they are needed.
Now, I understand it's a long time to be apart from each other, but this shouldn't be a shock.  It is told to the applicant time and time again during the recruiting process.  They know how long BMQ, SQ and 3s etc are.  You made an informed decision, and now you have to accept that.
Besides....what's a year or two when you have the rest of your lives?


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## Shadow Cat (26 Sep 2005)

I am in total agreement with you about the cruelty.   We have been seperated for almost six months now and still have possibel another 8 months to go.   I say possibly becuase they are still possibly going to entertain the idea of moving us to Kingston but I am not holding my breathe on it anymore.   We were supposed to have an answer three weeks ago and they still haven't decided ya or nay to the idea yet.   URGH!!!

If we dont move I have to try to find another job here by the end of October and I don't know if I should proceed with that or not.   As well I had been running around with my head schopped off a few weeks ago trying to get the house ready just in case we were moving.

It is hard on relationships, it is hard on the kids and it is hard on the member to be removed from absolutely everything that they have and know (family, friends personal effects).   Alot can happen in 18 months and unless you have a strong relationship, thankfully we do, than it can be the end of the relationship.

To make matters even possibly worse for us.   We will be seperated for about 1 - 16 months and than after being together for 2 months he has laredy been told that he will probably be going on a six months tour.   So over the course of 2 years we would see him for 2 months straight, one two week vacation and two one week vacation.   It hardly seems fair or right.

As far as the comment about being informed, we werent.  Never once were we told that we would be apart this long becuase if we had been informed we probably wouldnt have done it.


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## Shadow Cat (26 Sep 2005)

Oh and one more little thing becuase of someones lack of follow through we are actually seperated longer than what was needed.  

See my DH course was slated to begin today but someone forgot to enroll him in another course that was neede prior to him starting his QL3's so becuase of that lack of enrollement we are forced to be apart even longer than what we were originally told.  January 15 was when he was supposed to gradute but now we are looking at the end of May.  

Hardly fair again.


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## beach_bum (26 Sep 2005)

Shadow Cat said:
			
		

> As far as the comment about being informed, we werent.   Never once were we told that we would be apart this long becuase if we had been informed we probably wouldnt have done it.



Are you trying to tell me that at no point in time your husband wasn't told how long his courses were or that he would be gone on tours etc?  I'm having a very hard time believing that.  Perhaps he just chose not to inform you as not to upset you.

The military is not being "cruel", separation is just part of the job.


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## Shadow Cat (26 Sep 2005)

Actually we were aware of how long each course was and that did not come as a surprise.  What comes as a surprise is that we were todl that his course was long enough to move us and in fact it really sin't and that while he was waiting for his training that he would be sitting around twiddling his thumbs for four months away from his family.  Tours are fine those are usually 6 months.  I can handle that hands down now.  I mean really I am coming up on that mark now.  But when you are looking at 16+ months there is a big difference in that than just a tour.

Yes we were both niave going into this.  We thought that after BMQ he was coming home for some vacation which didn't happen.  We thought that we would be with him during his QL3's and we knew nothing about PAT (PRETC).

I don't know what type of realtionship you have but my DH is not the type to keep things hidden to "not upset" me and with all honesty he is just as upset if not more upset at this unexpected seperation.


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## Air Force Medic (26 Sep 2005)

Sorry Beach-bum but we were not informed either and I was there for much of the enrollment process, well all that I was allowed to be there for, and we asked alot of questions and each time we were told 10 weeks of BMQ another 16 weeks plus a further 2 in B.C. for trade training, then posted and probably the first deployment would follow after another year of training........(which would happend at her unit and we would have already been in housing by then.   Now from basic we find out BMQ is weeks plus they are keeping her for a further week for parades for Nov.11, followed by SQ (which she asked and was told no she would not have to do....I was there for that question) now trade training is 16 weeks in Borden followed by 13 weeks in B.C.... Oh and so far she has been payed almost nothing, just over 300 dollars and they can't say when pay will be straightened out.......thank god we had some savings and I was working till a layoff last week....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so I have to agree with Shadow Cat we were not given all the goods or we would certainly have thought more seriously about how to go about things while she went into training.   Thank god we have a strong relationship too or the unknown would have been even more difficult than it is now..............sorry if I sound like i'm ranting or selfish, I want to support her in whatever she wants, but we would have planned much better I can tell you that for sure.


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## beach_bum (26 Sep 2005)

Shadow Cat said:
			
		

> I don't know what type of realtionship you have but my DH is not the type to keep things hidden to "not upset" me and with all honesty he is just as upset if not more upset at this unexpected seperation.



What I have told you has nothing to do whatsoever with my own relationship.  It has to do with the four years that I worked in recruiting.  During that time I saw a lot of things happen, and I saw more than one person mislead, or in some cases outright lie to their loved ones.  Generally, they did this to avoid conflict over enrolling.  It happens more than you would like to think.  



			
				Air Force Medic said:
			
		

> Sorry Beach-bum but we were not informed either and I was there for much of the enrollment process, well all that I was allowed to be there for, and we asked alot of questions and each time we were told 10 weeks of BMQ another 16 weeks plus a further 2 in B.C. for trade training, then posted and probably the first deployment would follow after another year of training........(which would happend at her unit and we would have already been in housing by then.    Now from basic we find out BMQ is weeks plus they are keeping her for a further week for parades for Nov.11, followed by SQ (which she asked and was told no she would not have to do....I was there for that question) now trade training is 16 weeks in Borden followed by 13 weeks in B.C.... Oh and so far she has been payed almost nothing, just over 300 dollars and they can't say when pay will be straightened out.......thank god we had some savings and I was working till a layoff last week....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so I have to agree with Shadow Cat we were not given all the goods or we would certainly have thought more seriously about how to go about things while she went into training.    Thank god we have a strong relationship too or the unknown would have been even more difficult than it is now..............sorry if I sound like i'm ranting or selfish, I want to support her in whatever she wants, but we would have planned much better I can tell you that for sure.



Sorry to hear about your situation.  I am certain that the recruiters did not lie to you.  You have to also understand that there are constant changes being made to training.  Sometimes they add things and sometimes they remove things.  This also affects the length of the course.  I don't know the deal with the SQ story, but perhaps the regs changed in between when you were told this and now.  It happens.  A lot!

Now, as for her pay.  That's just wrong.  I certainly hope they get that fixed and soon!


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## Shadow Cat (27 Sep 2005)

I  apologize for my assumption.

Personally I have been behind my DH the whole time.  He wanted to quit during BMQ and than agian during SQ just becuase he was finding it difficult to be away from us.  It was his first time away for longer than four days in the 14 years that we have been together.  In order to help him through it, I got a babysitter, cashed in some RRSP's and went up to see him to give him the strength to hopefully pull through the course.

We were never told that he would be sitting in Borden for any length of time and I think that that is what upsets us both so much.  Also the fact that they forgot to enroll him in a course that his name was on and so becuase of their mistake our family has to suffer.

the good news is he is coming home for a week in October but than again it has its drawbacks as it means that we will only see him for a week at XMAS.  But at this point I will take whatever we can get.


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## Shadow Cat (27 Sep 2005)

Oh and Air Force Medic.   The pay problems seem to be the norm.   Every single person on my DH course and every course thereafter has had problems.   It take about a month and a half to two months to get it straightened out.   Ours was straightened out the week before BMQ graduation.   Made it nice becuase they owed us alot of money and I took the kids up to his graduation.

If you wife has to do SQ you can expect the same problems just not as bad.   You won't get the sep pay until she gets back to her posting base.   They said it was to much paperwork and time to transfer it for only seven weeks.   Still not so bad though.


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## combat_medic (27 Sep 2005)

So, wait a minute, you knew that your significant other was joining the military, and at no point did you or he consider that you would be apart for extended periods of time? Furthermore, if you have kids, do you really think it's fair to them to uproot them every 6 months, put them in new schools, make them leave their friends etc., just because your hubby is on a course? Screw the amount of time and money that the military would have to spend to pack you up and move you every 6 months like a band of gypsies, isn't the stress and social problems associated with so much moving enough to make you WANT to keep your kids in the same place?

Finally, do you mean to say that the recruiters outright lied to you and your spouse and told you he wouldn't be away for months at a time, or that they would move you every single time he went on course or deployed overseas? I find that difficult to believe.


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## Shadow Cat (27 Sep 2005)

YOu obviously are unable to read.  Go back and read the posts and than maybe you would have a better understanding of the situation.  As well we are not looking at months here we are looking at over a year to possible two years. 

As well do you honestly think that friends are more important than family.  If so I feel sorry for you supposed loved ones.


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## combat_medic (27 Sep 2005)

Yes, my ability to type over a thousand posts is obviously indicative of my illiteracy. I read the posts, and am familiar with your situation. And yes, it is possible that you could be separated on and off for two years. I've been through long periods of separation, as have thousands of others. They have all survived. Your situation is not unique. In fact, I know of people who have been apart for 3-4 years consecutively, without seeing each other AT ALL during that time. They have all lived. This is part of life, and particularly part of life in the military. If you're looking for sympathy, this is not the place to find it, or the way to go about it. 

Yes, I also think it's selfish and unreasonable to cart around little children every few months like a travelling circus. It is cruel to the kids, affects their social development and causes an enormous amount of undue hardship on them. Yes, I think having friends, a support network, a foothold in your community, and a sense of home and continuity for your children are important. More important than packing them at the least whim so they can see a parent once every few weeks when they have a day or two off. If you think your children are an accessory that can be toted around at will without any adverse consequences for their upringing and development, then I feel sorry for YOU. Every kid I know who grew up moving around that often all attested to the fact that it was the most difficult part of their childhood - they usually felt they had no friends, no sense of belonging, and had attachment difficulties with others, which often spilled over into their adult relationships. But I guess seeing their dad on his leave (since he apparently can't fly home) is more important than providing them with a stable home. 

Now that we're done with the accusations (and don't they sound just as offensive coming from the other end?), let's get to the crux of the matter.

IF you and your spouse were, in fact, completely unaware of and unprepared for being apart for long periods of time, then you have one of three choices to make; 

1. Learn to live with the fact that he will be away. The military has always been like this, it will not change. He will be away a lot, and there's little you can do about it. Establish roots in a community, find a support system (like the family resource centres on base), and make your home the best it can be.
2. Have your spouse leave the military if it is something that you just can't deal with.
3. Get a divorce if you are not able to cope with the separation and they are not willing to leave.


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## Scott (27 Sep 2005)

I hate to jump in and seemingly oversimplify this but, Shadow Cat, I noticed this as a part of your signature:



> That which doesn't kill us will only make us stronger.



I think that line certainly applies in this case.

So that I am not accused of being cold, inexperienced, etc. regarding a situation like this I shall relate the following:

I have been with my spouse for almost 7 years and have spent only 2 years actually _with_ her. It sucks but has worked for us both just as I know you can make your situation work for you.

Nuff said.


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## Shadow Cat (27 Sep 2005)

I am a military brat and also come from a large family and so being together as a family had always been an important part of our upbringing.  The longest that my father was every away was five months and that was it.  It wasn't two years.  As well I personally loved moving every few years and in fact I carried that in to my early adult years.  Moving at least every two years.  

My biggest problem is not the speration part.  Like I said in another post I can deal with that and I knew that that was gonig to be part of it.  But we were not given the full facts and nobody can deny that.  It is also upsetting that due to the lack of follow up by someonem, we as a family are made to suffer.  When I say family I dont' just mean myself, I mean the children and believe it or not the military member, my husband as well.

I am not looking for sympathy as I know that thousands of individuals have gone through this and they will continue to go through this.  I know that we as a family will get through this and ye sit will make us stronger but it doens't mean that we like it.

We have looked at our options.  If he was to try to get out they would continue to detain him in Borden for at least six months to ensure that he is sure of his decision and thus his course is half over so why bother.  Personally I have been with my husband like I said in another post for 14 years and so the thought of divorce is not an option.   I miss him greatly but if we were to part than I would never have him.  

I still disagree with your opinions on children and uprooting but hey that is life.  Not everyone can agree about everything, right.


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

If no one at CFRC told you the information you wanted to know, why didn't you just ask?


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## Shadow Cat (27 Sep 2005)

Let me ask you this.  Did you know what PAT was before you joined?  Also if you were told that you would be able to move yoru family right after BMQ would you question it?  Like I have said we were niave.  We have learned alot from this.


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## Air Force Medic (27 Sep 2005)

Shadow Cat, I wish I knew how to jump to your defence as I feel you certainly deserve it, but I think you and I are still going to be considered outsiders here. Like you I came here only for answers that  we didn't get from recruiting (and I don't believe they lied to us, they just didn't realize we knew nothing about the military). We didn't know what had to be asked. Is it me? Is it you? Why would our questions and concerns provoke such animosity? I have to say I appreciate this site so that I can find some sort of answers and pass them on, but find the anger at simple statements disturbing. Please people myself or from what I have read from Shadow Cat so far, we are not attacking, we are just looking for others out there who can pass on information, direction to find answers and just simply other people who may be able to share their stories as well. And if we can't find that information we write a post in order to find others who may have gone through something similar and may have info to share.


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## Scott (28 Sep 2005)

Air Force Medic said:
			
		

> Shadow Cat, I wish I knew how to jump to your defence as I feel you certainly deserve it, but I think you and I are still going to be considered outsiders here. Like you I came here only for answers that   we didn't get from recruiting (and I don't believe they lied to us, they just didn't realize we knew nothing about the military). We didn't know what had to be asked. Is it me? Is it you? Why would our questions and concerns provoke such animosity? I have to say I appreciate this site so that I can find some sort of answers and pass them on, but find the anger at simple statements disturbing. Please people myself or from what I have read from Shadow Cat so far, we are not attacking, we are just looking for others out there who can pass on information, direction to find answers and just simply other people who may be able to share their stories as well. And if we can't find that information we write a post in order to find others who may have gone through something similar and may have info to share.



Air Force Medic,

We want the site to be here to help, to inform and to foster an interest in the CF. Sometimes we have some pretty big whiners come through the door and listening to the same ol', same ol' time and time again gets pretty old. I don't see the need for anyone to defend another for there have been no attacks in this thread.

*Check fire, the above comment was in no way aimed at you or anyone else participating in this thread.*



> they just didn't realize we knew nothing about the military



Not trying to cause a stir, but did you tell them you knew nothing about the Military? When I first applied I took my girlfriend with me to the little "info" sessions specifically so she could ask some questions. Answers to those questions led to more questions and eventually she attained a comfort level with what I was about to do. Years later I asked a recruiter if this is the sort of thing that they mind/do not mind doing and he told me that, while it may vary person to person, that he didn't mind at all if it puts someones mind at ease. The preceding advice isn't going to amount to a hill of beans for you, I know, but may for someone else looking in.



> And if we can't find that information we write a post in order to find others who may have gone through something similar and may have info to share.



I offered up a simple example of what I have gone through, personally, over the last 7 years. It was not offered in jest or to take a poke, it was offered as "food for thought".



> Why would our questions and concerns provoke such animosity?



What I _*honestly feel*_ that I have been seeing in this thread is someone share their story and ask for input, not get the input they like so they tell the story again and again and again, I have read through the thread a few times just to form this opinion. I don't think that there is any animosity, just differences of opinion, you come to an Army site and you had better be prepared to back up your viewpoints because someone is going to come at you, it's called debate.

Opinion: If you solicit them then you had better be prepared to get a couple that you don't like. Maybe mine, maybe another guys, who cares, you asked for feedback, no one specified that it had to be all positive with hugs and smiles. No matter what your situation, no matter how bad *you* think it is there is always going to be someone who says, "Suck it up" Some will agree, some will not, c'est la vie.

*Check fire, I was not offering any view, merely stating how things work as I see them.*

*To be perfectly honest* about this thread, I feel that I am seeing a bit of crying going on. Yes you are separated from your spouse, yes it sucks, yes you feel deceived, yes all of the above could be improved, yes maybe you need a bit more support, yes maybe the system needs tweaking, need I go on? But none of this can be changed _right now_ so I implore you to try to put on a brave face, I know it's tough, and keep thinking *"That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger"*



> Please people myself or from what I have read from Shadow Cat so far, we are not attacking, we are just looking for others out there who can pass on information, direction to find answers and just simply other people who may be able to share their stories as well.



Never once thought you were attacking and don't see any such activity in the thread. You wanted info and I think you're getting it, you wanted direction and the only direction I can offer further to the above is to try and contact the Family Resource Center in your area, I don't know if they'll help but it's worth a shot. I also shared my story in short and sweet format.

I hope this can clear the air and maybe the Family Resource Center thing will be another avenue for you to approach. 

Out.


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## Air Force Medic (28 Sep 2005)

All I can say is thank you Firefighter that was very well said and I will check out the family resource centre.


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## George Wallace (28 Sep 2005)

I might also suggest you look in the Threads under "The Home Front" for more advice.  That Section has more topics relevant to these problems than the "Training" Section you are now in.


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## Shadow Cat (28 Sep 2005)

Air Force Medic said:
			
		

> All I can say is thank you Firefighter that was very well said and I will check out the family resource centre.



Ditto.  I will say as well that not once did I feel attacked.  Like I have said before people will have different opinions and as long as we agree to disagree then it is all good.  I am always open to a great debate.   

I am going to go a little off topic here but I personally go to another website www.themilitarylfe.ca for all of the hugs and sympathy that I am looking for.  AirForce Medic you might want to check it out as well.  There are some people on there that have been with out their spouses for three years and another person just found out that her DH 8 month course has been reschedule till October 2006 so she is looking at another 20 months of speration on top of the six under her belt.  We offer the little pick me up that sometimes one needs to get through this difficult period.  YOu might even be able to find someone in your region that is without their spouse as well.  It is easier for us that dont live on a base yet to get through this if we have someone that understands.

Check out the MFRC they might be able to offer you some help but the one that I am located at isn't able to.  Well really I shouldn't say that.  They can't offer a lending ear and at the beginning that is what I needed most.  Know that I have six months under my belt what they offer when they offer it is of some use to me.  They have events planned for the kids and parent left behind once a month, for me it is just when a ship is gone.  I don't know how old your children are but they also offer respite care so that you can go and get groceries or go have a cofee with a friend once in awhile.   YOu might want to look into that as well.

Hope to see you on the other site.  This site is for for imformation and I find the other site is for the how can I say this.  The tender shoulder that sometimes the left behind family members need.


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