# Iran claims test of fastest underwater missile



## Scoobie Newbie (2 Apr 2006)

Not sure if this belongs here or on the Foriegn Militaries forum

No warship can escape’ powerful 223-mph warhead, Tehran says
Associated Press
Updated: 11:52 a.m. ET April 2, 2006

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran announced its second major missile test in a week, saying Sunday it has successfully fired a high-speed underwater missile capable of destroying huge warships and submarines. 

The Iranian-made missile has a speed of 223 mph underwater, Gen. Ali Fadavi, deputy head of the Navy of the elite Revolutionary Guards, said. 

He called it the fastest underwater missile in the world—but it has the same speed as the Russian-made VA-111 Shkval, developed in 1995 and believed to be the world’s fastest, three or four times faster than a torpedo. 
It was not immediately known if the Iranian missile, which has not yet been named, was based on the Shkval, or if it can carry a nuclear warhead. 

“It has a very powerful warhead designed to hit big submarines. Even if enemy warship sensors identify the missile, no warship can escape from this missile because of its high speed,” Fadavi told state-run television. 

New military concerns arise
The new weapon could raise concerns over Iran’s naval power in the Gulf, where during the war with Iraq in the 1980s Iranian forces attacked oil tankers from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, prompting a massive U.S. naval operation to protect them. 

Cmdr. Jeff Breslau of the Bahrain-based 5th Fleet said no special measures were taken by U.S. forces based on Bahrain in reaction to the Iranian war games, even after the latest missile test. 

“They can conduct excercises whenever they want and they frequently do, just as we do. We conduct excercises throughout this region,” he told The Associated Press by telephone. 

The missile test was conducted during the third day of large-scale military maneuvers by tens of thousands of the elite Revolutionary Guards in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea. 

On Friday, the first day of the war games, Iran test-fired the Fajr-3 missile, which can avoid radars and hit several targets simultaneously using multiple warheads. The Guards said the test was successful. 

The missile tests and war games coincide with increasing tension between Iran and the West over Tehran’s controversial nuclear program. 

Iran’s show of force
More than 17,000 Revolutionary Guards forces are taking part in the weeklong maneuvers. 

On Sunday, guards paratroops practiced a drop in an attack on a mock enemy position, and warships, jet fighters, helicopters and sophisticated electronic equipment were used in other exercises. 

Iran, which views the United States as an arch foe and is concerned about the U.S. military presence in neighboring Iraq and Afghanistan, says the maneuvers aim to develop the Guards' defensive capabilities. 

The United States and its allies believe Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons, but Tehran denies that, saying its program is for generating electricity. 

The U.N. Security Council has demanded that Iran halt its uranium enrichment activities. But Tehran said its activities are “not reversible.” 

Iran launched an arms development program during its 1980-88 war with Iraq to compensate for a U.S. weapons embargo. Since 1992, Iran has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and a fighter plane.

© 2006 The Associated Press


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## Franko (3 Apr 2006)

Saw it one the tv today....looks pretty much the same as the Shkval. Mind you I am a layman IRT naval weapons AFV rec.

Regards


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## GO!!! (3 Apr 2006)

Something similar to the Shkval - pretty scary either way!

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/shkval.htm


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## a_majoor (3 Apr 2006)

Given the relatively narrow confines of the Persian Gulf, this would not have to be as accurate as a conventional weapon. Still, how is it going to be employed? I am not certain that the Iranian navy has submarines or capital ships large enough to carry a torpedo tube. During the tanker war, they were mostly employing speed boats with HMGs and RPGs or ATGM launchers.

Given the length of time the Shkval has been in service and known in the open press, I would suspect some sort of counter measures and various TTPs to reduce the risk of being engaged or struck have been developed, attacks by a force employing them would not be as one sided as it may appear.


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## GO!!! (3 Apr 2006)

majoor,

being a ground pounder, I am not as up to date on naval technology and TTPs as I could be - but how do you avoid a 250mph underwater rocket? The speed alone would seem (to me) to make this unbeatable if it was fired correctly.


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## a_majoor (3 Apr 2006)

Being a groundpounder myself I can only guess the answer(s) would be to spoof the launch platform as to your position, place yourself bow on so it is harder to actually hit you and engage the launch platform from outside the range of the Shkval. Countermeasures would be to somehow disrupt the cavitation bubble (perhaps with a well timed explosion of your inbound torpedo?) so the Shkval essentially runs into a solid wall of water at 200+ Kts.

Shields on maximum and a golden horse shoe probably help a lot as well.......


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## SweetNavyJustice (3 Apr 2006)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> I am not certain that the Iranian navy has submarines or capital ships large enough to carry a torpedo tube.



According to good ol' Janes they have one Submarine (possibly two others), but little else is known about that (from open source).  They basically came on the scene around 2004 and are suspected of being from North Korean origin.  

If their new torp is like the Shkval and it is wire guided, so a bit better then a point and shoot.  Still, at that speed with as narrow as the Gulf is, make sure you follow the Sonar Ops and the divers when they go running off the ship.... 

To be honest, I'm surprised that Iran developed such an "advanced" weapon considering the basic structure of the rest of their navy.  It's not an overly smart piece of technology vis-a-vie active wake homing, etc but still an interesting piece of kit for them.


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## Patrolman (3 Apr 2006)

They say that their nuclear program is for peaceful purposes so at least we don't have to worry about them sticking a nuclear war head  on it! Right? Trust them as far as we can throw them is what I say.


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## 1feral1 (3 Apr 2006)

Ya, and if these rogue nations keep up this attitude we'll (the west) be claiming the sun will rise 3 or 4 times by 0900h in these shitty lands. As for claiming this, at least we know that this is fact. After all the sun did rise twice on the mornings of 06 and 09 Aug 1945.

I think in the years to come, our overall safety and the taking of our freedom, always being taken for granted, will come to an abrupt halt.

One day these thankless lands will get lucky, and if its the USA, Canada or Australia, plus countless other western nations, again the price will be paid. Anybody who thinks Canada is bullet proof, think again. You aint, and none of us are!

My 2 cents,

Wes


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## SeaKingTacco (3 Apr 2006)

The Iranian Navy has Kilo SSKs bought from Russia- which are capable of firing the Shikval.  During my last go around in the Gulf in Jun 2003, we caught one of the Iranian Kilos running on the surface and got some great pictures- which I cannot figure out how to upload.

As for the Shkval- what little that I know about it leads me to believe that it has it's own problems.  It works by using super-cavitation to overcome water-resistance.  The rocket fuel it uses is supposedly pretty tricky stuff, which is never a good thing aboard a submarine.  It runs at over 200kts- in a straight line.  With a conventional warhead, all that you have to do is get out of the way.  Admittedly, if it carries a nuclear warhead, you are in deep trouble.  At that speed, the torpedo will cover a Nautical mile every 17 seconds or so.  Fired from 5 or 6 miles away, the average ship is still has about a minute to detect it and do something about it- which is pretty long time in Naval warfare.  I'm betting that this thing is also LOUD- meaning that there would be a pretty strong bearing indication to start looking for the firing unit.  Good.  I like small datums.  It makes my job very, very easy.

Everyone still think ASW is dead?

Cheers!


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## George Wallace (3 Apr 2006)

SweetNavyJustice said:
			
		

> According to good ol' Janes they have one Submarine (possibly two others), but little else is known about that (from open source).



This is just another example to some others on the site, that although Janes is a good Research Resource, it is not always up to date or accurate.  In fact if you look at what they have to say about our own equipment and numbers, you will understand what I mean.


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## Cloud Cover (3 Apr 2006)

Likely the thing does not have to be launched from a submarine or a purpose built surface combatant of any type. A fishing trawler, large pleasure craft or even an aircraft might do in a desperate pinch. From what I saw on TV and other places, this weapon does not require a complicated launching system but rather it uses some sort of very basic break away tether cord to activate the high speed propulsion- it could  likely be ejected by air pressure off the deck of a ship prior to activating the internal drive system.  I wonder if it could also be simply pushed over the side and pointed in the direction of a target, and the tether pulled from a safe distance to activate the torpedo motors and warhead. 

It would very effective in an attack within the confines of a harbour, narrow channel etc.  

Even a large vessel underway could likely not avoid such a weapon if fired within close proximity i.e right off a beach and directly at a JSS, amphib. etc.


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## SeaKingTacco (3 Apr 2006)

Whiskey,

I doubt that it could be pushed off the side of a ship.  It is an unguided weapon, therefore, it would have to be precisely aimed to begin with.  That is could come from a surface ship or shore emplacement strikes me as reasonable, though.

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least a couple of countermeasures for such a weapon.  It's existence does not spell the end for warships as we know them  

Cheers!


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## a_majoor (3 Apr 2006)

Based on open source literature like this: http://www.subsim.com/ssr/page33.html, I believe the Shkval needs to be ejected from the torpedo tube at a fair speed befor it can be activated. This also makes sense given there is a rocket motor involved and the ship or sub driver launching the thing will not want to have that blasting all over the hull of his ship/boat.

Best countermeasure: sink the Kilos at their berths and pre emptively take out any unknown ship of the proper size which approaches your ship before it gets to Shkval range.


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## SeaKingTacco (3 Apr 2006)

> Best countermeasure: sink the Kilos at their berths and pre emptively take out any unknown ship of the proper size which approaches your ship before it gets to Shkval range.



Works for me...


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## Colin Parkinson (3 Apr 2006)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> Given the relatively narrow confines of the Persian Gulf, this would not have to be as accurate as a conventional weapon. Still, how is it going to be employed? I am not certain that the Iranian navy has submarines or capital ships large enough to carry a torpedo tube. During the tanker war, they were mostly employing speed boats with HMGs and RPGs or ATGM launchers.
> 
> Given the length of time the Shkval has been in service and known in the open press, I would suspect some sort of counter measures and various TTPs to reduce the risk of being engaged or struck have been developed, attacks by a force employing them would not be as one sided as it may appear.



Good point, What the weapon will do is to act like an area denial weapon similar to a seamine. It means that the US will likely not risk a carrier in those waters, however it gives a tactical advantage to the Iranian, but not a Strategic advantage.

It may also be used as a political threat to attack the tanker fleet such as was done during the Iran-Iraq war, in order to intimidate other gulf states.


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## Cloud Cover (3 Apr 2006)

It is likely something significantly less advanced than a Shkval. It also appears to cut quite the wake in the water, which might suggest a very large fin type of rudder system breaking the surface and some sort of ram propulsion.  

I agree there are good countermeasures - but they must be available and deployed to work properly. 

As for guidance, obviously pushing the torpedo off the side of the ship and activating it without aiming might not be a good idea! If it can be made buoyant enough, it could be towed by a small boat into position, aimed and fired. I'm just saying it could be- not that it would be- however it makes sense for Iran to develop low tech, high speed weapons that are not to difficult to deploy and use in an asymmetric or covert pre-emptive strike environment.The Germans tried [amd failed miserably]  with odd little mini-subs after Normandy, and I believe once around Antwerp in 1945.[i.e. a brazen attack on sitting duck targets]

No doubt this would be a hazardous endeavor quite likely to attract the attention of an alert crew on a warship, and it's sensors and weapons, and those of escorts and other nearby friendlies.


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## Scoobie Newbie (3 Apr 2006)

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060402/iran_missiles_060403

Iran to test more missiles in Gulf wargames 
CTV.ca News Staff

As the international community worries over Iran's nuclear ambitions, the Tehran government is boasting it has successfully fired multiple-warhead missiles in a series of wargames -- with more to follow.

A senior Iranian naval officer told state television Monday that Iran will test fire a powerful torpedo today, and more missiles on Tuesday, as part a "Great Prophet" series of war games in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea that began Friday.

The new Iranian-made "Hoot" or "whale" torpedo could raise concerns over Iran's power in the Gulf. 

Gen. Ali Fadavi, deputy head of the Revolutionary Guards' navy, is claiming that the ships that fire the Hoot have radar-evading technology and that the torpedo -- which moves at 359 km/h -- is too fast to elude.

If the claims are true, the Hoot's speed would make it up to four times faster than a conventional torpedo, and as fast as the Russian-made VA-111 Shkval -- the world's fastest known underwater missile.

"It has a very powerful warhead designed to hit big submarines. Even if enemy warship sensors identify the missile, no warship can escape from this missile because of its high speed," Fadavi told state television.

The U.S. navy spokesperson told The Associated Press that no special measures have been taken in reaction to the Iranian war games, and he would not comment on whether the new torpedo poses a threat to U.S. forces in the region.

"In general terms, no matter where we operate in the world, we're aware of other capabilities that exist and of other countries that aren't as friendly to the U.S., and we pay attention to those capabilities," said Cmdr. Jeff Breslau, spokesperson for the U.S. 5th Fleet based on the Arab island nation of Bahrain.

The U.S. and its Western allies have been closely watching Iran's progress in missile capabilities. Iran already possesses the nuclear-capable Shahab-3 missile, which can travel about 1,900 kilometres, putting Israel within range.

The nation is flexing its muscles amid concerns about U.S. action over its nuclear program, which Washington says is intended to build nuclear weapons. 

It's a claim that Iran denies, saying the program is meant only to generate electricity.

The U.S. is pressing for sanctions again Iran if Tehran refuses to give up uranium enrichment, which is a crucial part of the nuclear process

Meanwhile, Iran's hard-line president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has warned that the U.S. will "suffer" if it takes action against its program. 

Iran has a commanding position over the Strait of Hormuz at the entrance to the Gulf -- a major corridor for oil supplies.

During Iran's war with Iraq in the 1980s, Iranian ships attacked oil tankers in the Gulf, and Iran and the U.S. military engaged in limited clashes during the "tanker War."

The frigate USS Samuel B. Roberts was badly damaged by an Iranian mine in 1988. The U.S. Navy retaliated by launching its largest engagement of surface warships since the Second World War. Two Iranian ships were destroyed, and an American helicopter was shot down, killing the two pilots.


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## GO!!! (3 Apr 2006)

The video of the missile test was on CBC last night, it was dumped overboard on a tilt - platform and left a significant trail (wake) in the water - if fired immediately upon being submerged, but was it ever fast!

There were three angles, it appears to be longer than the Shkval, and with a large fin assembly on the back.

So, this new weapon does not appear to require torpedo tubes to fire.


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## SeaKingTacco (3 Apr 2006)

Thanks for the info, GO!  I had not seen that piece on CBC.  Off to Mother Corp's website...


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## Sheerin (3 Apr 2006)

Does anyone have a link to this video?


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