# Some People Should Be Deported....



## GerryCan (7 Nov 2004)

I stumbled upon this website, not sure if it's been up here before but I thought some of you might like to see that these idiots have to say about the military.

And please feel free to send them an email, I sure did.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/consciencecanada/index.html


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Nov 2004)

I think I'll kindly suggest they go to where a war is right now and politely ask them to stop as this will allow us to spend less....WIN/WIN


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (7 Nov 2004)

If anyone is interested I will be starting a fund at the Royal Bank to provide these  intelligent Canadians with the airfare required to get them to Iraq where they will, im sure be able to convince local insurgents that we can all live in peace and harmony.After all as they have pointed out, the money wasted on the military can be spent best elsewhere and whats an extra 60,000 people out of work as long as they can sleep at night.


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## aesop081 (7 Nov 2004)

This is the part where i remind myself that these people have the freedom to say shit like that because people like us are in the military.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Nov 2004)

true...........but that doesn't mean we have to like them,  hehehe


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## 48Highlander (7 Nov 2004)

Theirs has to be some of the worst logic I've ever seen.

"As conscientious objectors, we cannot pay if we know a portion of our taxes will support the military. Therefore we seek a separate account for this portion and the assurance this portion is used by the government for non-military purposes. This is not cosmetic. If the government then wishes to use other tax money for the military, that is their responsibility, and as Canadian citizens we will take part in the public debate about defence policy with our fellow citizens."

What in the hell is that?   Do they seriously beleive that just because a few thousand people suddenly say "we don't want our taxes used for war", that the government will have to invent a new form of taxation?   Are these people retarded?

"Until a CO Bill has passed into legislation, Conscience Canada provides a positive option for Conscientious Objectors to Military Taxation (COMTs) to deposit that portion of their income taxes into a Peace Tax Trust Fund as a formal objection to paying to kill. For the Fiscal Year ending March 31, 2003 federal government military-related expenditures, calculated on the basis of selected expenditures from the Public Account of Canada available to us at this time, amounted to 7.93% of the total government expenditures. There may be other expenditures related to defence that are in addition to this percentage. For information on how to divert the military portion of your taxes to the Peace Tax Trust Fund, click here."

They're right the f**k out of 'er.   So if I pay $10,000 a year in taxes, then ofcourse some of that goes to the army, but if I pay $9200, somehow the government will magicall know why I'm doing it and make sure that none of that money goes to the army.   Right.   Either the authors of this site suffered severe head trauma as infants, or they're just looking for a way to avoid paying taxes.


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## HollywoodHitman (7 Nov 2004)

I'm seldom ever lost for words......Ask my girlfriend.........I think if I sat in a room with some of those morons for long enough, they'd be able to change their organizations' name to "Unconcious Canada". 

Please excuse me while I go hug a tree. Then log it.   :threat:


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Nov 2004)

Quote,
Please excuse me while I go hug a tree. Then log it.   

I'm stealing that one!!! ;D


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## aesop081 (7 Nov 2004)

Bruce, i feel the same way........

As for the rest of their crap........their lack of brainwaves shows. I wonder if any of those idiots live here in Winnipeg, i'de like to ask them if any of us sandbagged their house in '97, took care of them during the winter of 98...anyways, you see where i'm going with this !!!

Cheers

Pat


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## stukirkpatrick (8 Nov 2004)

To see more of their great logic, read their FAQs...


> Peace is a good ideal, but how would we stop the Hitlers of this world without war?





> Nonviolent resistance is a viable alternative to war, and has been used successfully in many freedom struggles around the world, including the Danish resistance of Nazi occupation



I'm sure THAT would prevent ethnic cleansing/holocausts   :


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## 48Highlander (8 Nov 2004)

Kirkpatrick said:
			
		

> I'm sure THAT would prevent ethnic cleansing/holocausts   :



Well, it would in a way.  Sooner or later all these sheep would be dead.  It's a win-win situation, they don't have to fight, and the invaders get the land they want with no tree huggers around to annoy them.  Hell, if we ever DID get invaded it might be worthwhile letting them try their methods first, before the army steps in.  Yeah I know we're here to protect ALL Canadians, but if it's a choice between having to listen to them whine about how horrible we are, or letting them commit mass-suicide....well, it's not really that tough of a choice now is it


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## FastEddy (8 Nov 2004)

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> I'm seldom ever lost for words......Ask my girlfriend.........
> 
> Please excuse me while I go hug a tree. Then log it.   :threat:



Your a 100% right, hope fully right along with the other 4705 members of this Forum.

Just when you think you've heard and seen every-thing "BANG".

My first feelings about this is, it has all the ear markings of a gaint scam. However their will be gulible or people of the same mind set that will pay into it for the Taxation Year of 2004. Just imagine even if a small fractional  percentage does.

Refund ?, you've got a better chance of getting your money back from the Used Car Lot (the one on the old vacant lot down on the corner with a tent for a Office).

In closing my heart goes out to all the Men & Women who are or have Served their Country so well.
Who must suffer the slings & arrows and under mindings from people like this.


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## pbi (8 Nov 2004)

Sigh.....the joys of a free society.

As usual, the logic followed by these people leads to nonsense if followed to its ultimate conclusion. If we all refused to pay the portion of our taxes that we objected to on religious, social, moral, political, ethical, business or selfish grounds the government might be bit strapped for cash to do much including provide grants and other life support for gangs of twits such as these well-intentioned fools. Cheers.


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## Ty (8 Nov 2004)

I don't know what you're all complaining about- I these lads seem to be spot on.  Why should I pay for something I don't want?  While we're at it, I'm going to stop paying taxes for:

The TTC- hardly ever use it anymore.
Social assistance- hey I have a job, why should I pay someone else's way?
Health Care- I hardly use the hospitals, I'd rather pay on a per-visit basis.
All other parties except the one I voted for- why should I pay the salary of an MP that I didn't vote for- even if s/he won in my riding?
The CBC- they've showed some stories there that I disagree with, so give me my taxes back!
Taxes used for highways outside Toronto- again, hardly ever use them.]
Schools- Hey, I'm over and done with that.  Why should I pay for someone else's brats to get an education?

Man, this conscientious objector thing is fantastic.


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## Michael Dorosh (8 Nov 2004)

Yeah, so when the Government doesn't get their 7.93% from someone, they immediately reduce the military's budget by that amount.  What a crock!

Like Canadians have never heard of deficit spending??

Or the 70 dollars Joe Schmoe withholds would really make a difference?


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## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> Sigh.....the joys of a free society.
> ...



To true - well done pbi and aesop081 for recognizing that you defend *all* the rights and freedoms of *all* the people, even, perhaps especially the nasty, bitter, deluded people.


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## Michael Dorosh (8 Nov 2004)

Has anyone tried reporting these guys to the ISP - Shaw?  These guys are soooo serious about this they are using their free shaw webspace account, they don't pay for hosting or a domain name.

internet.help@sjrb.ca

Is the email address for Shaw if anyone wants to send in a query.


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## Michael Dorosh (8 Nov 2004)

Ah - here is the answer.

Well, at least free speech is alive and well! ;D



> Hello
> My name is Craig
> 
> Our abuse policy can be found at
> ...


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## sguido (8 Nov 2004)

Re: Shaw's webspace policy...

6.   Webspace members agree not to:
(a)-invade another person's privacy; unlawfully use, possess, post, transmit or disseminate obscene, profane or pornographic material; post, transmit, distribute or disseminate content which is unlawful, threatening, abusive, libelous, slanderous, defamatory or otherwise offensive or objectionable; unlawfully promote or incite hatred; or post, transmit or disseminate objectionable information, including, without limitation, any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any municipal, provincial, federal or international law, order or regulation;

Hmm...let's see...

These individuals @ CC are recommending that you not pay your full taxes to the government.

Does this not encourage unlawful behaviour?

Their own web site states that they won't guarantee you won't be held accountable for amounts in arrears.   So, are they saying break the law, and hope you don't get called out?

Promotion of civil disobedience is offensive and objectional.

Ladies & gentlemen, get to your keyboards and start typing your objections to:

support@shaw.ca

I'm not against freedom of speech or opinion...I *am* against those who break the laws of this land!


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## rw4th (8 Nov 2004)

> to defend freedom of conscience


Right, and just how do they expect to do this?

I've had similar discussions with people who oppose private firearms ownership. If you follow the argument through, it never makes sense. It always ends in something circular like:

Them: â Å“Well, you have to make sure you never get thereâ ?
Me: â Å“But what happens when you do. Even Hitler got himself electedâ ?
Them: â Å“Then you object, make sure you vote for the right peopleâ ?
Me: â Å“But by then, you won't be able to voteâ ?
Them: â Å“Well, you have to make sure you don't elect the people who will do thatâ ?

And it goes on in circles. These people just cannot bring themselves to accept that there are people in this world (I'd argue most) that just take what they want without asking and that the only way to deal with these people is to push back, and that doing that requires strength, violence, and the tools and will to implement it.

The problem is people like this only realize they were wrong when it's too late, usually while crying and saying things like â Å“how could this happen?â ?


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## Korus (8 Nov 2004)

We may not agree with what that website has to say, I infact disagree with it entirley.

But it ultimatley comes down to the fact that we exist to protect their right to be able to openly hold ideals such as those. Be thankful we live in and proudly serve to defend a country with freedom, many people don't have that luxury.


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## HollywoodHitman (8 Nov 2004)

One of the key points that people who object to militaries in general seem to forget is the fact that human nature as it is, there is always someone who wants power. Whether that power is political, economic or other, there is always someone who wants it and will stop at nothing to further their own agenda. This is the key reason that world peace, while a nice, fuzzy and happy dream, is likely to never become a reality. People are people. Someone always wants something more than someone else. 

I have no problem with our military members being willing to fight and die for one's right to voice their opinion. What I do take exception to is the willingness of these people to whine, bitch and moan at the money being spent on our barely armed forces. At the same time should something go horribly wrong (our own 9/11 for instance) or some sort of natural disaster or large scale emergency, these same people will be the ones who come running to the military and demand action. The worst part will be that because the politicians and the general public remain complacent and continue to neglect the military which in itself is shameful, they will openly complain that the military hasn't done enough to protect them and their interests when the after action reports come down and blame is assigned, which it always is....

That is the nature of our political and social system and while it is our job to be the tool of the government, which does the bidding of our people, it doesn't make it right. The public and our government should be ashamed of themselves. They alone have let the state of the military degrade to the point of virtual ineffectiveness. Every military goes through transitional periods and re-constitutional phases, but usually there is some sort of vision or firm end state in mind. If anyone knows where we're headed, let me know.

The famous Jack Nicholson monologue from A Few Good Men comes to mind........That being said, I'm proud of my country, proud of the armed forces. Overall a country is a reflection of their military. Look at world opinion of the US.......Who are their tools of foreign policy? 

That website and the people who promote it are shameful. I respect their right to voice their opinion yes. Do I expect that their ridiculous agenda and ideas be considered for even a moment? I should hope not!


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## Brad Sallows (8 Nov 2004)

>Nonviolent resistance is a viable alternative to war, and has been used successfully in many freedom struggles around the world, including the Danish resistance of Nazi occupation

You have to admit, that's a priceless remark.


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## bubba (8 Nov 2004)

the crackheads are right outof'er,heres my donation. :bullet: :bullet: :bullet:


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## HollywoodHitman (8 Nov 2004)

Priceless is right!!!! How long did it take for the Germans to roll.......Ah, never mind. Non violent resistance as an idea is great. Smart or viable enough to succeed? HAHA!!! Got to go back outside and hug my tree again...........

TM ;D


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## GerryCan (8 Nov 2004)

Well their mailing addy is one from T.O, so I imagine that's where they're based out of. I wonder if any of these tool boxes had their driveways shovelled by any of us when Mel Lastman(another tool box) called in the army.

The more i read their page, the more  I want to smash things.


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## Alex252 (8 Nov 2004)

I sent their website a nice little letter ;D


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## 48Highlander (8 Nov 2004)

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> Priceless is right!!!! How long did it take for the Germans to roll.......Ah, never mind. Non violent resistance as an idea is great. Smart or viable enough to succeed? HAHA!!! Got to go back outside and hug my tree again...........



You mean you haven't logged it yet?  What the heck are you waiting for??


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## Korus (8 Nov 2004)

Here, I'll even let you borrow my chainsaw.

I need some wood for my campfire.


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## HollywoodHitman (8 Nov 2004)

Workin on it guys!!! Nice thing about trees.....Once you cut one down, he has friends!!!! :threat:


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## Storm (8 Nov 2004)

They absolutely have the right to say those things, but I reserve the right to laugh at them for being such complete and utter morons. 

It's quite spectacular that in a society in which damn near everyone is literate, and therefore reasonably educated by historical standards, there can be so many dumb people.


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## Korus (8 Nov 2004)

> They absolutely have the right to say those things, but I reserve the right to laugh at them for being such complete and utter morons



I utterly agree with that one!


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## SeaKingTacco (9 Nov 2004)

Hey, these guys might be on to something.  The corollary to their argument of some CO withholding money from the military budget means that I (or any other Canadian) should be able to direct ALL of my tax dollars to the military (and none of it to the Gun Registry!), if I so choose.  Let's see, I paid about $15K in federal tax last year (not including any GST)- all that we need to do is find about 1 million other like minded Canadian individuals or corporations to do the same and we are talking a $15 billion/year defence budget!  If we hire a really slick PR firm (and some good telemarketers), the CF should be rolling in the dough in no time!

Cheers!


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (9 Nov 2004)

As a member of the military, I dont worry so much about health care.Maybee I should look into not paying taxes for health care, yeah in the end without funding, people may die but after all this is about me right??


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## s23256 (9 Nov 2004)

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world where a peaceful protest will stop an MBT.  These people are definitely having their cake and eating it too.  They can feel good about themselves painting the military as a pack of bloodthirsty war mongers while at the same time knowing that if anyone ever tried to take away their freedom to do so we are here to defend them.  In any case here is quote I found particularly suitable:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertion of better men than himself.

-John Stuart Mill


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## atticus (9 Nov 2004)

I just wrote these retards an email. Doubt I'll get one back though.


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## bitterbones (9 Nov 2004)

ive written them as well, but remember one thing, if you write to them telling them off and being rude they arent going to listen to you. not only this, but if you have told them you are a member of the military then you are just feeding fuel to the fire. write them if you will, but be factual, precise and above all polite.


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## 48Highlander (9 Nov 2004)

I wrote to them, and managed to refrain from swearing and/or mocking them excessively.  As a result, I received a reply:



Greetings,

As you can probably imagine, I've been getting quite a few e-mails from
people who are upset by our website. I want to reply to each message, but
that will take time.

First I just want to thank you for your message, because yours is a
welcoming kind of message. It invites us to visit the forum website.

I did that and got some idea of what the forum is all about. I don't know
what one needs to do to get a password to join... and to tell the truth, I
don't think I could handle belonging to a forum.

If I did join, I would need to join from my own computer as this computer
(and e-mail address) belongs to my mother. (It's a bit of a long story why
this is so, basically because for some Conscience Canada work I need to
handle attachments and I can't with my own computer.)

One part of my belief in non-violence is that "each person, each being, has
a piece of the truth" to paraphrase Gandhi. I believe that dialogue is of
vital importance. So, I'm glad someone alerted the forum to our website and
look forward to writing replies.

Feel free to post this message to the list if you want.

I should explain that mail sent to our site comes to this address (my
mother, Jody's, address). Neither of us is thrilled with profanity, but I
know that's just a matter of style really. (Yours is one of the few messages
free of swear words.) I'm the secretary of Conscience Canada.

all the best, Jan Slakov



So there ya have it.  I actually didn't expect a reply at all.  I assumed the whole thing was a scam, but this reply made me rethink that.  I still think their beleifs are idiotic, but I'm actually looking forward to debating his/their ideas.


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## HollywoodHitman (9 Nov 2004)

48thHighlander........

You are very brave. I am not so patient. I'm not so sure I could manage a dialogue with someone so easily with my hand wrapped around their neck, eg. Homer with Bart........(Granolas aren't the only ones who can use drama to illustrate a point)......I think I need an insulin shot from the sickly sweet tones of that response email you recieved. 

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze are these people for real???.........Where's my chainsaw and a large pristine forest?


On a slightly more serious note.......I think if anyone is going to send nasty-grams to Unconcious Canada, they should refrain from using profane language. I don't think it'd reflect well on soldierdom (new word?) if we can't demonstrate a little verbal/typewritten restraint. There's some very articulate and thoughtful people on this (army.ca) site from what I've seen...........

One last, not so serious note......Let's not offend Jan's MOTHER...........Jeeeeeeeze.


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## bitterbones (9 Nov 2004)

i phoned them earlier today, and im pretty sure it is just some private reisdence. when the lady answered the phone all she said was hello, no 'hello conscious canada how may i help you.' someone obviously didnt put much thought, time, or money into this, i guess they are too busy filling out welfare forms and standing in line ups and wednesday.


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## Scratch_043 (9 Nov 2004)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Quote,
> Please excuse me while I go hug a tree. Then log it.
> 
> I'm stealing that one!!! ;D


me too


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## Danjanou (9 Nov 2004)

Anyone notice that only nine of their members believe so strongly in their cause that they listed their 
e-mails on the site. That and the fact that they operate on their mommies computer tells me all I need to know about this group.

Now where did  I put that chainsaw? Time to go and.... er hug me some trees. 8)


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## Michael Dorosh (9 Nov 2004)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> If I did join, I would need to join from my own computer as this computer (and e-mail address) belongs to my mother.



LOL

I think maybe these are just some well-meaning but confused kids.  A show of professional courtesy to them will, I agree, work much better than intimidation or swearing.


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (9 Nov 2004)

I thought I would enclose the letter my wife sent to them.She grew up in a military familly and has supported me for 14 years.

Dear Sir,



I think your web site is based only on tree hugging reality. If you really want to see peace and humanity, you must first understand what the military is trying to do. If we do nothing  but pick daisies and paint butterflies. It will not be long before these tyrants invade our country.The Canadian military is a Peace Keeping Military not the baby killers you seem to think. And maybe you haven't seen the news...we have crappy equipment, and poorly paid men and women who stand there in horrible weather and freeze, or sweat their ass off, all to make sure, you at home stay comfortable and warm and well fed, never worrying about if there is going to be an air raid. I can't believe that I stumbles across this web-site days before we thank our Vets, for their sacrifice and hard work, not to mention their lives, the lives of their brothers, fathers, cousins, and so on, I find this disturbing, granola head web site. I hope that you understand that the people who go to these countries and serve and wear our flag, do it so that people like you don't have to. They get up each morning and hope that they day will be a good one, where they don't have to see or smell death or destruction and hope it's all a bad dream, so that people like you don't have to. They look into the faces of small children and see the horror they see, and want to go home and hug their own, all so people like you don't have too. And here you campaign to get people to join your pathetic opinion, I hope you take this letter in consideration, and thank the vets, and I hope you go to Remembrance day on Thursday and shake hands with everyone you see wearing a uniform, because they are the ones that make the ultimate sacrifice not  a couple of bucks like you, these people have hope and dreams of peace too, but they are doing something about it, and in the right manner, not like you. Of course I am part of that world, the one you campaign against, and I wouldn't change it for the world. and as far as I am concerned you can keep your money, I hope tithe government gives it to "save the snow" or some worthy cause like that.

Sleep well tonight sir, hug your children and have your coffee in the morning and grab your briefcase and go to work, and don't worry, nothing will happen to you on their watch....


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## Troopasaurus (10 Nov 2004)

well the name in that email reply that 48Highlander recieved basicly much sums up the type of people.

"all the best, Jan Slakov" 

So Slack-off eh.


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## 48Highlander (10 Nov 2004)

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> 48thHighlander........
> 
> You are very brave. I am not so patient. I'm not so sure I could manage a dialogue with someone so easily with my hand wrapped around their neck, eg. Homer with Bart........



Hey, trust me, I went through a few revisions.  The first e-mail I typed up was a short rant about bullets moving faster than pickets, and hippies with bright clothing making excellent targets, which ended with me wishing him the same fate as Rachel Corrie.  Before sending it, I went and had a smoke, and reminded myself that insults and profanity usualy make YOU look bad, and don't accomplish anything, so I removed all the swearing.  Well, after that there was only about 10 words left on the page, so I decided to rewrite it and just try being nice instead.  I'm sure I still came across as a bit of an a**hole (I DID call their beleifs "total nonsense"), but I'm only human 



			
				bitterbones said:
			
		

> i phoned them earlier today, and im pretty sure it is just some private reisdence. when the lady answered the phone all she said was hello, no 'hello conscious canada how may i help you.' someone obviously didnt put much thought, time, or money into this, i guess they are too busy filling out welfare forms and standing in line ups and wednesday.



Actually, I'm pretty sure they just picked up the idea recently from a similar group in the US.
http://www.nwtrcc.org/what_is_wtr.htm
The idea's been around for a while in the US, but I doubt the Canadian version has existed for very long.  The US chapter claims to have some 10,000 members....the Canadian probably has only the 9 whose e-mail addresses are listed on the site


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (10 Nov 2004)

I get the impression this is a case of wrong placed intentions, maybee this poor lad had too much time in moms basement and saw an american website that peaked his interests but he wasnt well enough informed of the Canadian system and its beurocratic policies to make an informed opinion.As he stated, he has seen this forum and hopefully he does some more research to learn the error of his ways.I liken it to someone coming to army.ca and stating the Canadian military has never proved itself in battle.Chances are he would get quite the verbal **s kicking before being banned.I still think everyone should bombard him with emails to educate him of the error in his ways.


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## bitterbones (10 Nov 2004)

> we have crappy equipment, and poorly paid men and women


 now thats funny, poorly paid ?? ?? ?? ??  and we have better equipment than most armies ive seen as well


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## 48Highlander (10 Nov 2004)

Well, here's my second e-mail to him if anyone cares:


    I'm glad you got the chance to check out the forums.  I didn't expect you'd be interested in joining...as you can tell the forums deal mainly with military matters, and most civilians wouldn't understand a lot of the conversations.  I just thought you might want to see what soldiers think of your ideas.  The way I see it, listening to other peoples views on your opinions/beliefs is an important part to further developing those beliefs, especialy when their views happen to be diametricaly opposed to yours.

    I don't think any of us have a serious problem with you or your organisation.  We deffinitely don't see eye to eye, but every person within our nation has the right to his or her own beleifs.  I do however feel obliged to point out several massive flaws in the material on your site.

  Firstly, your belief that the "freedom of conscience and religion" gauranteed under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms somehow exempts you from paying the full amount of taxes owed.  Yes, you have the right to do what your conscience and religion dictate.  However, if those actions break the law, the charter cannot be used as a defence.  For instance, Euthanasia is a crime commited mainly by those whose conscience will not allow them to stand by and watch a friend or relative suffer.  It is still however illegal, and Robert Latimer is one Canadian who is paying the price for following his conscience and killing his disabled daughter.  Obviously, refusing to pay a portion of your taxes is nowhere near as serious, however, it is still a crime, and the Charter will not and should not protect you from prosecution.

    Secondly, your belief that a percentage of "your taxes" is being spent to fund the military.  That's a false assertion.  When you pay your taxes, they get pooled with everyone elses taxes across the country.  The funding for the military is then assigned out of that collective fund.  I'm sure you already know that, however you obviously haven't considered the implications of claiming that you are somehow responsible for what gets done with that money.  I'll illustrate one problem behind that theory with an example:

Let's say you rent a basement appartment in a house and you pay your monthly rent to the owner.  You know that the owner is an alcoholic who uses the majority of that money to get drunk, after which he beats his wife.  Is the best solution to that situation to simply stop paying your rent?  Hardly.  All that will accomplish is to get you kicked out, after which someone else will move in and the problem will continue.

So logicaly:
Let's assume that allowing you to specify that none of your tax money be used for military purposes does not create a bunch of special interest groups demanding similar privilidges.  What actual effect do you think you will have?  Military funding will not be affected.  The only difference is that you could say to yourself that you now have a "clear conscience".  You'd be lying to yourself.  If you truly beleive that something is wrong, then the ONLY way for your conscience to be clear is to work towards stopping the injustice you see.  Simply saying that you refuse to encourage or support it is not enough.

And lastly, what changes would you expect the government to make if they took you seriously?  How could anyone gaurantee that YOUR taxes aren't being used for military purposes?  Since all taxes go to a collective fund, how can anyone gaurantee that your taxes will go to one place or another?  If in fact all you're looking for is someone to tell you that your taxes aren't going to the military, I can do that for you right now.  They're not.  The ammount that you would normally pay towards the military can now go to a public service of your choice.  In return, the same ammount that I would normally pay towards that service is now going towards the military instead, on top of what I would normaly pay.  Is your conscience clear yet?

I could go on for a while longer but this e-mail is already much longer than I intended.  I look forward to hearing back from you, and hopefuly getting some answer to the questions I posed.


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Nov 2004)

Folks:

I caution everyone to make sure you frame your e-mails as individual and personal, vs. representing a group (E.G. the CF or Army.ca). Though I don't agree with the premise of COMT either, I'd hate to see your e-mails misconstrued as an official response on the part of the CF or even "all of us here."

I also doubt that arguing the point with them is going to be highly effective. They likely hold their beliefs as strongly as you hold yours. (Consider your reaction if they found your posts here and started emailing you out of the blue in an attempt to change your mind to their way of thinking.)

Don't mistake this for defending them, but I think some of the illogical personal attacks in this thread don't do much for our credibility.

Freedom means not everyone has to think like you.


Cheers
Mike


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## foerestedwarrior (10 Nov 2004)

I find it humerous that they are using a java applet saying the price of the Iraq war. Which a. is wrong, and b. has nothing to do with the Canadian Forces. The very much so need to re think their thoughts, but more importanly their actions. When i get home, and am not on a DND computer, i am thinking of sending shaw a nice email pointing out WHY the site is illegal, and by that point is not allowed on their server.


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## Korus (10 Nov 2004)

It all makes sense to me now.. If The Canadian and US militaries had not been funded, there would not have been any killing in the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Somalia, the Taliban would have laid down their arms and Saddam would never have gassed the Kurds... Kim Il wouldn't have been that bad to the S. Koreans, would he? Going back in History, Hitler would have stopped the wholesale slaughter of those he deamed inferior, and would have retrated peacefully back to Germany. 

Wow. I can't realise I never saw it that way before.


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## FastEddy (11 Nov 2004)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> Well, here's my second e-mail to him if anyone cares:
> 
> 
> I'm glad you got the chance to check out the forums.   I didn't expect you'd be interested in joining...



As I mentioned earlier, I was lost for words, I think you have expressed my thoughts and sentiments exactly in your Email to these people.

I think that it nicely expresses and explains the thoughts of many of the members of this Forum, again well done.


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## pappy (11 Nov 2004)

SHELLDRAKE!! said:
			
		

> If anyone is interested I will be starting a fund at the Royal Bank to provide these   intelligent Canadians with the airfare required to get them to Iraq where they will, im sure be able to convince local insurgents that we can all live in peace and harmony.After all as they have pointed out, the money wasted on the military can be spent best elsewhere and whats an extra 60,000 people out of work as long as they can sleep at night.



Isn't the Sudan closer? you'll be able to send more of them then.......  ;D  Just don't send them here to the US


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## pappy (11 Nov 2004)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Quote,
> Please excuse me while I go hug a tree. Then log it.
> 
> I'm stealing that one!!! ;D



"Earth First!  we'll log the rest of the planets later"

I had a "discussion" with one of the peaceniks that are thick here in Eugene, he started to talk crap about my beloved Marine Corps, 
I quickly asked him what branch of the service he'd served in.....  his answer was "I've never been in the military"

I then added that unless his desire was to find out what it was like to pick up his teeth off the ground with broken fingers he should shut up or join up and then we'd further discuss his military knownledge and opinions.

I'm always eeasily amused by those who enjoy the freedoms they feel they have no need or desire to pay for.


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## pappy (11 Nov 2004)

Kirkpatrick said:
			
		

> To see more of their great logic, read their FAQs...
> I'm sure THAT would prevent ethnic cleansing/holocausts   :



"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." 

-Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography


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## R031button (11 Nov 2004)

pappy said:
			
		

> Isn't the Sudan closer? you'll be able to send more of them then.......   ;D   Just don't send them here to the US



 Actually think you guys have some prime realestate in NJ that would be perfect for these geniuses.....close to a school to  :skull:


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## pappy (11 Nov 2004)

how about some islands off the northern coast of Canada above the arctic circle..... then when they say it's cold here as they get off the plane hand them some Canadian Army Parkas, and then say "opps you can't give you these, you never paid for them"......

Please don't send them here, we have enough of these types here in the US, I'm afraid we here in the US are a bad influence on your Canadian youth, your kids can't play with ours anymore..... sorry  :dontpanic:


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## 48Highlander (12 Nov 2004)

Don't worry.  Not only will we not SEND you any people like that....every time you go fight a war, more of those a**holes come up here!  We should be begging YOU to keep them THERE, not the other way around


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## canadianblue (13 Nov 2004)

Yeah, the Danish resistance liberated Holland from the goddamn German's, it was all just one big lie that Canadian troops happened to go into Holland and liberte the people there. The Dutch were able to get rid of the nazi's by throwing flowers at them, and smoking a bunch of dope with them. Sometimes non-violence has worked in some certain situations. But when your dealing with a goddamn psycho like Hitler than the only way to stop him is by use of military force. 

Why don't we give these hippies the addresses of veterans, and send them to their houses to tell them how world war 2 was'nt necessary, and that they did'nt contribute to stopping Hitler. Maybe if they actually lived through some conflicts they would understand the need for the military to protect our freedoms.

I think we should send all of the hippies to Cuba, I think they'd like the "socialist" paradise there.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Nov 2004)

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> I think we should send all of the hippies to Cuba, I think they'd like the "socialist" paradise there.



Are you kidding?  Half the women I work with on civvie street have actually been to Cuba on vacation. It is beyond me how they live with themselves, blowing hard earned money to help support a repressive communist regime, but all they care about is the money they are going to make for their next vacation, and how much sun, sand, surf and liquor they will be able to get for the cheapest price.


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## Danjanou (13 Nov 2004)

Don't worry Micheal they probably never leave their European owned and operated all-inclusive resort so odds are all Fidel gets from them is the $25.00 US depature tax.


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## foerestedwarrior (13 Nov 2004)

Actually, Castro owns a bunch of travle agnecys in Canada


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## Scratch_043 (13 Nov 2004)

just curious, how do you know that?


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## foerestedwarrior (13 Nov 2004)

My mom is a travel agent, also seen stuff about it on the news, may be owned by the country of cuba, or him personally, not sure


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## R031button (14 Nov 2004)

Thing about Castro is that, in all fairness, Cuba is pretty decent in comparison to a great deal of places in South America and the Caribean. I mean, sure it's not a paradise by any means, but he has done a great deal for it, and many of the repressions (limits on milk consumed by adults comes to mind) are there because the regime is trying to use limited resources to feed/support a large population.

Not that I am, or have ever been a member of the communist party


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## Danjanou (14 Nov 2004)

Actually Castro â Å“officiallyâ ? doesn't own anything. Everything is state owned, and as it's a dictatorial states that means defacto he has control of it. Most of the tourist industry is run between Cuban and foreign companies with Cuba putting up the land and labour and the foreigners (mostly European but some Mexican and Canadian firms) the capital. 

You guys have to understand that the "normal rules" really don't apply to or in Cuba and yeah I speak from experience.


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## ArmyRick (15 Nov 2004)

Launched my complaint... as per instructions..


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