# Designing a Load Bearing System



## Fusaki (24 Apr 2006)

In the next few months I'm going to be looking at purchasing some sort of tactical load bearing system. I have a few ideas in mind, but before I bring them up I'd like some input from some of the folks around here. Here are the requirements:

- It must be as modular as possible, preferably using the MOLLE system.
- It must hold a minimum of 9 Mags easily accessible from both right and left hands.
- It must hold a minumum of 2 frags and one smoke grenade
- It must have an admin pouch(s) for a map, suunto compass, "canadian peacekeeper" style FMP, maglight (maybe tactikka?) and an eTrex Vista C GPS
http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVistac/
- It must hold a minimum of 2 ASP Trifold Restraints in "open" position.
http://www.amronintl.com/tactical/products.cfm?id=2066
- It must hold and protect an AN/PVS-14 night vision monocular with dovetail attached and spare AA batteries
- It must have room and easy access to a PRR
- It must have room for the new CF bayonet and frog.
- It must have a mag dump pouch, preferably the kind that can fold away when not in use (like a Maxmedition Rollypoly? http://www.maxpedition.com/product/product_rollypoly.htm)
- It must have room for a small First Aid Kit, basically something for a field dressing plus some other odds and sods.
- It must have room for a few glowsticks, plus a few other small things.

Releasable armour is not an issue, since I'd have to wear the issued ballistic system. No need for a RAV, CIRAS, or similar vest. I'm right handed, so I'd need the smoke, grenades, dump pouch, and PRR on my left side. I use an issued CADPAT Camelbak for water, and I'd prefer to wear it like a backpack instead of attaching it to the vest/chest rig, web gear itself. A good spot to clip a helmet would be nice too.

A tall order, eh?

I have a good idea of what I'd need to carry, but have very little experience in comparing the quality of various brands. The ICE Tactical Chest Rig System looks like a good base, and the pouches look well designed, but before I drop the coin I'd like some _impartial_ reviews of the gear (I'm looking at you Matt!!). Don't get me wrong, if the ICE guys want to plug their gear they can post away (I'd appreciate any info on any products) but I just don't know anyone personally who can give be an unbiased opinion. Sounds reasonable, right?

Thats all I have at the moment, any help would be appreciated!!


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## kyleg (24 Apr 2006)

Check out www.lightfighter.net. They've got a lot of great kit reviews and you'll probably find an answer in no time. Just make sure to post an intro post, fill out your profile, and use the search function BEFORE asking a question.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Farmboy (24 Apr 2006)

Not a tall order at all.  

Take a look around my site and you'll find that I can provide everything your looking for.

-----> http://www.oneshottactical.com/

 I can put a few "package" options together for you to see if there is something that would work best for you.


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## fourninerzero (24 Apr 2006)

I'm using a one piece TT MAV with bib and X harness, completely modular, holds 12 mags, has a rolly polly, dropzone utility pouches under the TT large pouches, and both the vest body and the bib has a map pocket. because of the complete modularity, pockets can be added or removed as necessary.


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## bilton090 (2 Jun 2006)

FourNinerZero said:
			
		

> I'm using a one piece TT MAV with bib and X harness, completely modular, holds 12 mags, has a rolly polly, dropzone utility pouches under the TT large pouches, and both the vest body and the bib has a map pocket. because of the complete modularity, pockets can be added or removed as necessary.


   LOOKS PREDY BUT, IF YOU GO TO GROUND, IT's CRAP


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## fourninerzero (3 Jun 2006)

bilton090 said:
			
		

> LOOKS PREDY BUT, IF YOU GO TO GROUND, IT's CRAP



Actually, the way it rides it feels more like the old 82 pattern webbing when in the prone. I had no issues using in in the field going prone and crawling around. Felt comfortable, helds lots of stuff, worked well with a ruck and smallpack. My ass was a touch higher elevated, but I had no problems with it. Mags were still easy to get out (much easier than the issued tacvest, although I suspect its half due to position and half due to pouch design)


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## bilton090 (3 Jun 2006)

CPGEAR is coming out w/ a hole new line in arid cadpat. 

        9xmags,3xgrenade pouches,c9 pouch,utility pouch,cell phone/gps pouch,compass pouch,first aid/commanders pouch this is all modular systems w/ the modular leg harness,
modular chest rig, modular combat belt, &modular vest.
                          www.cpgear.com


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## westie47 (3 Jun 2006)

Check out the 2 pcesplint front MAV with X harness from TT. It works quite well.  I belive ICE Tactical makes something similar as well. I know both TT and ICE make in CADPAT as well. If you look around there is quite a selection of CADPAT pouches out there as well. Aside from Drop Zone, and CP there is TT, HSGI, ESSTAC, etc


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## Panzer Grenadier (3 Jun 2006)

Hi All,

1st off , I just joined army.ca today (and am currently still doing army reserve training) and glad to be here.  Now to the LBS, I've seen some of  Tiger Tactical's stuff, looks pretty good.

Here's the link to some LBS Stuff --> http://www.tigertactical.com/productlist-03.php


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## paracowboy (3 Jun 2006)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> 1st off , I just joined army.ca today (and am currently still doing army reserve training) and glad to be here.  Now to the LBS, I've seen some of  Tiger Tactical's stuff, looks pretty good.
> 
> Here's the link to some LBS Stuff --> http://www.tigertactical.com/productlist-03.php


well, son, if you're still going through trainnig, do you really think it's appropriate to offer "advice" on equipment to trained troops, many of whom have a great deal of in-theatre experience?

Might want to slow down a bit.


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## Panzer Grenadier (3 Jun 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> well, son, if you're still going through trainnig, do you really think it's appropriate to offer "advice" on equipment to trained troops, many of whom have a great deal of in-theatre experience?
> 
> Might want to slow down a bit.



Hey, Im an eager beaver, what can I say


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## paracowboy (3 Jun 2006)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> what can I say


"Sorry, I'll read more."


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## ghazise (3 Jun 2006)

Seriously, the Modular approach is best, because throughout a deployment your missions are going to change, you want to be able to change your load / lighten your load, because especially with the ballistics plates and magazines with ammo loaded your LBV gets heavy and alot of the gear on your list, you won't want and don't need, the modular approach quickly allows for you square away your gear,  

And if you don't have experience to put some thought in you load system, your not about to pump out and you are spending your money on gear, then your a Gear Queer,  Spend your time focused on "how to operate" rather than "what to wear"


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## KevinB (3 Jun 2006)

I'd stick well away from CP gear stuff -- the quality sucks -- they make a nice FMP cover (I have one I got in gagetown in 1988 still) - but everything else is made very flimsy.

The 1 piece MAV takes a bib which adds a bunch of extra PALS spots for MOLLE pouches to go on.

Also the HELLCAT and FALCON stuff from SOTECH has an integral 6 mag pocket that is a nice touch.
Pic borrowed from their website...







Also Eagle Industries MOLLE STYLE RHODESIAN RECON VEST - no experience with it - but I've always been favourably impressed with Eagle's quality.


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## COBRA-6 (3 Jun 2006)

I have a Falcon as pictured above, the quality is bombproof. Waiting on some John Willis pouches to fit it out with...


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## KevinB (3 Jun 2006)

IF you get in touch with Dear JOHN - ASK HIM WHAT HE DID WITH THE RAV I SENT HIM IN JAN...


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## COBRA-6 (3 Jun 2006)

will do!


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## bilton090 (3 Jun 2006)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> I'd stick well away from CP gear stuff -- the quality sucks -- they make a nice FMP cover (I have one I got in gagetown in 1988 still) - but everything else is made very flimsy.
> 
> The 1 piece MAV takes a bib which adds a bunch of extra PALS spots for MOLLE pouches to go on.
> 
> ...


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## KevinB (3 Jun 2006)

Its not just the design - but the weight of material - thread sewing methods etc.  They need a rigger with a clue about tactical operations IMHO - to oversea the construction of the stuff.


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## fourninerzero (3 Jun 2006)

westie47 said:
			
		

> Check out the 2 pcesplint front MAV with X harness from TT. It works quite well.  I belive ICE Tactical makes something similar as well. I know both TT and ICE make in CADPAT as well. If you look around there is quite a selection of CADPAT pouches out there as well. Aside from Drop Zone, and CP there is TT, HSGI, ESSTAC, etc



TT makes some pouches and such in cadpat, but its a bit harder to find the big ticket items like the MAV vest and such. Thats why I went with the olive setup, as cadpat wasnt availible when I ordered it up, and i can later replace pouches with cadpat ones if I really feel like it.

Edit for spelling


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## paracowboy (3 Jun 2006)

I advise anyone to stay away from CPGear for real-world kit. If you're never going to leave a CP, it's fine.


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## bilton090 (4 Jun 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> I advise anyone to stay away from CPGear for real-world kit. If you're never going to leave a CP, it's fine.


 Para you haven't seen the new kit that is coming out, the hole line has been remade, designed by Eng's & RCR's. It's going to be one of the best real-world Modular Systems.


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## Lerch (4 Jun 2006)

That modular sling they've got now looks pretty damned spiffy.

The only thing I can't get over is the ACU boonie that they've got... ???


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## Farmboy (4 Jun 2006)

> That modular sling they've got now looks pretty damned spiffy.



 Blue Force Gear slings.

The only way to go  8)


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## Fusaki (4 Jun 2006)

bilton090 said:
			
		

> Para you haven't seen the new kit that is coming out, the hole line has been remade, designed by Eng's & RCR's. It's going to be one of the best real-world Modular Systems.



Actually, being an RCR may hinder your ability to produce non-issue kit. ;D


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## bilton090 (4 Jun 2006)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Actually, being an RCR may hinder your ability to produce non-issue kit. ;D


                  I'M A ENG ! :cheers:


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## Fusaki (4 Jun 2006)

Im an RCR.... Where are you going with this?


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## bilton090 (4 Jun 2006)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> I'm an RCR.... Where are you going with this?


 you last post tought. you w/ talking-to me, ( A little bird told me!, official )  4ESR is going to be looking at 1 0r 2 items,new mod ed kit from some local company!.


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## Fusaki (4 Jun 2006)

> you last post tought. you w/ talking-to me,



I was, sort of. I made a smartass remark about the RCR's parade ground mentality in my last post, but I should have been more clear in the point I was trying to make. Just because someone is combat arms, it doesn't necessarily make them a SME on fighting gear.

-CP Gear has a reputation for substandard quality, but is known for its really good FMP Covers.

-Eagle Industries has a reputation for superior quality, and is known for its really good CIRAS.

Can you see why guys are skeptical when you imply that CPGear is on par with Eagle Industries? I'm new to non-issue load bearing gear, and all I can really do look at what others have to say and the experience they have to back it up. You're going to have to give a bit more than "RCRs and ENGRs helped design it" if you're going to change anyone's opinion of CanadianPeacekeeper.


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## bilton090 (4 Jun 2006)

Can you see why guys are skeptical when you imply that CPGear is on par with Eagle Industries? I'm new to non-issue load bearing gear, and all I can really do look at what others have to say and the experience they have to back it up. You're going to have to give a bit more than "RCRs and ENGRs helped design it" if you're going to change anyone's opinion of CanadianPeacekeeper.

                       Yes you are right on a lot you are saying, that's why I'am showing to People from all trade's, and it would be nice to have maybe have a few things that work in the field, & it works with other kit as well, but is right down the road !


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## westie47 (5 Jun 2006)

CP does not compare to Eagle. Period. My last trip to A-Stan I invested in the CIRAS(Land). Awesome piece of kit. Some might complain about the price but as far as I am concerned, when your life is on the line you should be using the best kit money can buy. Just like the professional mechanic will pay for Snap-On or Mac as opposed to Canadian Tire tools.


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## greydak (19 Jul 2006)

http://www.highspeedgearinc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=HSG%2DWAS

http://www.tacticalassaultshop.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product.html&setup=1&ida=132&idp=9&his=0|9&cart_id=4242553.2792

This is my rig, it’s HSGI Wasatch, I can hold 14 Mags, all with mag-pulls before I use any of the available molle, if need be you can also put our issued plates inside the plate carrier pouches (but i don't and it still works great). So far I have attached 2, TAG Split Saw pouches which can be used as utility pouches or magazine pouches, or of course C9 boxes. It beats the poorly designed issued vest, and other commando rigs I’ve seen/worn. As for the personal KIT issue, “if the RSM is going to come out to the FOB and charge you let him; you have a war to fight”


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## greydak (19 Jul 2006)

Also in my opinion; CP gear is poor quality for the cost, fine for a KFS holder not for killing gear..


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## Grunt (7 Aug 2006)

I use a split front SO Tech Hellcat Mk3 with shoulder harness, without any pouches added it can hold 6 AR magazines.  The Split front option allows you to wear the rig like webbing, and you can open up the front when in the prone position for extra comfort.  It also concentrates most of the kit on your mid section instead of all over your upper body like the TV (yuck).  This rig also isnt as bulky or complicated as most of the aftermarket rigs I have tried.

I have mine setup with 

TT zipper utility pouch (for smokes/frags/T flashes etc)
TT large utility pouch (ballistic eyewear and misc stuff)
HSG Rifle magazine pouch (double for 12 mags total)
TT Radio pouch (large) 
Maxpedition Rollypolly dump pouch
tac light pouch (for nightops gladius light)
HSG Mini EOD pouch (setup as a medical pouch)
2 pistol mag pouches
bayonet frog
wear a camelback for water


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## CircusBTN (18 Aug 2006)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> -CP Gear has a reputation for substandard quality, but is known for its really good FMP Covers.
> 
> -Eagle Industries has a reputation for superior quality, and is known for its really good CIRAS.
> 
> Can you see why guys are skeptical when you imply that CPGear is on par with Eagle Industries? I'm new to non-issue load bearing gear, and all I can really do look at what others have to say and the experience they have to back it up. You're going to have to give a bit more than "RCRs and ENGRs helped design it" if you're going to change anyone's opinion of CanadianPeacekeeper.



Well I have looked at their Chest Rig and Load carrying equipment and I will agree you can definately get better. But don't slam them that hard. I have ordered their 64 frame Kit, all the pieces and they are very high quality parts for your 64/ALICE frame. I have used them and have found them to be a great investment. Different companies have different zones where their manufactures focus. CP gear doesn't make that many Chest Rigs, so thats not their thing.


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2006)

CircusBTN said:
			
		

> But don't slam them that hard.


okay...uhhh...they make an outstanding FMP cover?  ;D


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## Shamrock (18 Aug 2006)

The Armoured Corps has developed an oustanding load bearing system, one that will allow weapons, ammunition, armour and PPE, and kit carriage very easy.  These systems, called "tanks" are so well designed, they'll not only carry their own weapons, but also a crew of 3 - 4 with kit with minimal effort to the end user.  The down side is, the load-bearing system in use by the Corps is very expensive and most Sergeants Major won't allow just any one to bring a "tank" in to work.  Also, fuel mileage sucks.


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## westie47 (20 Aug 2006)

Anyone who says that CP Gear is comparable to Eagle is smoking crack!!!!! While some of CP Gears stuff is good, There is a reason why many, many operators, soldiers and contractors are using the CIRAS. I used one in AStan and loved it. It was durable, comfortable and very expensive. But well worth the price. It is virtually indestructible.  I think even KevinB is switching from Paraclete. I use Paraclete as well and it as good as Eagle, don't get me wrong.


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## KevinB (20 Aug 2006)

yes its true I got a CIRAS (M)  -- I find it better designed than the CIRAS (L) or Paraclete RAV -- for what I want out of it.


  I still have a FMP cover I got in Gagetown in 1988 - Its been in more than 6 countries -- but I still would not buy anything else from CP...
Eagle and Paraclete are primo tactical nylon companies CP is not in the same league.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Aug 2006)

> This is my rig, it’s HSGI Wasatch, I can hold 14 Mags, all with mag-pulls before I use any of the available molle,



I'm torn between the Wasatch and Weesatch.  I've seen the weesatch and it looked pretty cool. Tried it on and it fit well but I wasn't wearing the body armor with plates.  I'm not sure if the wasatch will be too big or not, it suggests the weesatch if you have a smaller frame but I'm not sure what smaller is considered?  10 mags seems plenty too.  Anyone who has either  have any suggestions?
Plus there is the decision between tan coloured and arid cadpat.


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## Panzer Grenadier (8 Sep 2006)

Flawed Design, it seems the Weesatch Carries fewer mags http://www.davesarmysurplus.com/images/aridwe.jpg than the Wasatch http://www.davesarmysurplus.com/images/aridwas.jpg, thats how it appears to me.  And secondly in regards to the Arid Cadpat or Tan, it will depend if you want to pay the bit extra to have the Arid Cadpat version or not.


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## FEEOP042 (9 Sep 2006)

Well my two cents is..... I like the US mod system that goes on the frag vest. It makes sense to have mod system on the frag vest. So it is one piece of kit. Like the CBT ENGR will require different pouches and placement then a infantry soldier. I don't think that the tac vest should all look the same. You should wear it any way you want to it is your life support system. If you can draw a mag or any other piece of equipment out faster to save your life or your buddies. Then that is the way you should wear it.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Sep 2006)

Panzer, yes it seems to hold less.
Weesatch holds 10 and the Wasatch holds 12, The latter rig looks to me like it goes too far on the sides. Maybe it's a comfort thing.

The decision between cadpat arid and tan, besides what looks cooler, is the availability of pouches in arid.  Having an arid vest with tan pockets might look a little weird.


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## Panzer Grenadier (22 Sep 2006)

Flawed Design,

http://www.davesarmysurplus.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=cadpat&sort=3a&page=1

I don't know if this gives you the wide selection of arid cadpat your looking for, if you scroll through it appears to have a large assortment of it - by my accounts that is.


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