# 80 Killed near Kandahar



## Dog Walker (17 Feb 2008)

Suicide bombing kills 80 outside Kandahar city
Updated Sun. Feb. 17 2008 8:07 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Afghanistan has suffered what may be its deadliest terror attack since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.
A suicide bomber attacked an outdoor dogfighting competition on the outskirts of Kandahar on Sunday, leaving 80 people dead and another 90 wounded.
The main target is believed to have been Abdul Hakim Jan, a local militia leader.
Khalid Pashtun, a parliamentarian, said Jan had served as provincial police chief in Kandahar in the early 1990s and was the only commander in the province to oppose the Taliban during its rule.
"Hakim Jan is one of the important, prominent jihadi commanders in Kandahar," Pashtun said. "There were so many people gathered and of course the Taliban and al Qaeda usually target this kind of important people."
Kandahar resident Faizullah Qari Gar, who was at the dog fight, said Jan's bodyguards started shooting after the bombing.
"In my mind there were no Taliban to attack after the blast but the bodyguards were shooting anyway," he said.
Dog fights are popular in Afghanistan and routinely draw crowds in the hundreds, who circle around the animals.
While suicide attacks have been on the rise in Afghanistan, with more than 140 recorded in 2007, they usually aren't so deadly.
The previous worst bombing came in the northern city of Baghlan in November. There, a combination of suicide bombing and gunfire from bodyguards left about 70 people dead, including six parliamentarians and 58 students and teachers there to greet them.
With files from The Associated Press
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080217/afghan_blast_080217/20080217?hub=TopStories


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## ModlrMike (17 Feb 2008)

These are the people the Liberals and NDP would have us negotiate with.


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## TCBF (17 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> Actually the American yes-man President  Hamid Karzai said he wants to negotiate with them.
> Ands whats with this dog fighting?Are Canadian soldiers watching  this barbaric sport?
> If we are going to force our way of living on these people than lets start with outlawing dog fights



- Pearson was a yes-man:  "Sure, we will take the nukes."

- Force are way of living on THEM?  More like the other way around.  See current threads on the Human Rights Commissions, and on Denmark.


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## georgeharper (17 Feb 2008)

So, someone is allowed to say..

"These are the people the Liberals and NDP would have us negotiate with."

But in reality, Hamid Karzai, who is the American appointee in Afghanistan  REALLY did say he feels negotiations with the Taliban should take place

But to post a factual comment is not allowed and it is removed.
Why?

Nothing inflamatory about it.
He really did say that.
Honest



> Force are way of living on THEM?



Thats right.Seems democracy is only a good thing if those countries are American friendly.
If not, democracy means nothing and the Americans step in to have that country's government overthrown only to be replaced with a dictator


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## TangoTwoBravo (17 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> Thats right.Seems democracy is only a good thing if those countries are American friendly.
> If not, democracy means nothing and the Americans step in to have that country's government overthrown only to be replaced with a dictator



The West did not go to Afghanistan because of it style of government.  We went to Afghanistan because they were an open base for the terrorists who perpetrated 9/11.  Afghanistan could have had a democracy with full franchise and an American-style constitution, but the point was that the Taliban government had become intertwined with Al-Queda.  

As an aside we are not there to impose our beliefs.  I watched them hammer out their constitution with all sorts of debate and others here watched them vote.  Out and about I have seen things that I personnally do not like but I have not stepped in to impose my beliefs and values.


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## TCBF (17 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> ...Thats right.Seems democracy is only a good thing if those countries are American friendly.
> If not, democracy means nothing and the Americans step in to have that country's government overthrown only to be replaced with a dictator



- You mean like the way they got rid of Diefenbaker and replaced him with Pearson?


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## Teeps74 (17 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> So, someone is allowed to say..
> 
> "These are the people the Liberals and NDP would have us negotiate with."
> 
> ...



I would suggest that the problem with the post deleted, was you made assumptions about us, the soldiers which were incorrect, and without merit. You may not have intended it, but the effect is insulting to us, the soldiers. Consider it fair warning, do not make the same mistake twice.

Of course, if instead of making spurious and groundless accusations and assumptions about us, you were to ask questions, I think you would find that us troops can be hospitable, and even down right friendly at times.


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## GDawg (17 Feb 2008)

My God, I'm glad I've stuck to my new years resolution not to post on the G&M comment boards. The things people have to say about Afghan related news is simply disgusting. I stopped reading after about a dozen posts. 80 people are indiscriminately murdered while attending an event, and all they choose to condemn is the event the deceased were attending. I can't comment on wether or not dog fights are actually a part of Afghan culture, and I certainly think it is a cruel and backwards sport but I can step back and realize that the cold blooded murder of 80 people is probably much more worthy of condemnation. 

The "Indigenous self-determination" crowd will remain mute about the murder of 80 average Afghans, and condemn the dog fighting. The will claim that we are in Afghanistan to impose western lifestyle upon them (aka: American colonial subjects), yet they are the ones that criticize local customs, and they are the ones that in essence silently consent to the Taliban using torture, intimidation, destruction, and mass murder to impose a new order in Afghanistan. Somehow it is our fault that the Taliban is brutalizing the locals, they don't realize that the Taliban tortured, intimidated, and killed many thousands of people prior to 9/11 in the years after the Soviet withdrawl when Afghanistan had long since faded from the radar screen of the western world. I wonder what the "Indigenous self-determination" crowd would have said if we had intervened in Afghanistan in the very early nineties?


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## George Wallace (17 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> But to post a factual comment is not allowed and it is removed.
> Why?



 ???

What factual comment?  You haven't had any comments removed.  I checked all your posts and they are still on the forums.  Get a grip on yourself and stop making false accusations.


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## 1feral1 (17 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> So, someone is allowed to say..
> 
> "These are the people the Liberals and NDP would have us negotiate with."
> 
> ...



What are you bloody whinging about?

Sadly, we do our jobs so we can protect and defend idiots like you.

And what would you suggest???

Pads or tampons pal, make up your mind.


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## ModlrMike (17 Feb 2008)

My comment was factual because:

Jack Layton said so here 12 Sep 2006



> If the Taliban threat is to be eliminated and the legitimacy of a democratic Afghan government is to be established, a comprehensive peace process putting dialogue and reconstruction ahead of blind militarism, must be launched.



And because Stephane Dion has repeatedly stated that diplomacy is the only way to involve the Taliban in a stable Afghanistan.

Hamid Karzai is fully within his rights as the President of Afghanistan to negotiate with whomever he chooses. You will notice however, that He has consistently said the he will not negotiate with Taliban who have links to al Queda. Oh, and he was not appointed by the US, he was elected by the Afghans.


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## X Royal (18 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You haven't had any comments removed.  I checked all your posts and they are still on the forums.



Actually George, a geogeharper post from yesterday at 12:45 was removed from this thread. It was moved to the "warnings" forum. The way it was done it almost appears that georgeharper put himself on a verbal as it has him as starting the thread. ??? First time I have seen anyone other than a mod start a post in the warnings forum, which had me wondering what was happening until I found this thread.


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## George Wallace (18 Feb 2008)

X Royal said:
			
		

> Actually George, a geogeharper post from yesterday at 12:45 was removed from this thread. It was moved to the "warnings" forum. The way it was done it almost appears that georgeharper put himself on a verbal as it has him as starting the thread. ??? First time I have seen anyone other than a mod start a post in the warnings forum, which had me wondering what was happening until I found this thread.



Ah!  Seen.  Thought that was kind of odd myself.


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## helpup (18 Feb 2008)

When I first heard about this incident my second thought was " wondering how many people would bring up that Dog fighting is immoral and those people got what they deserved".  Has anyone heard from PETA on this?

While I find Dog fighting not my cup of tea, as was pointed out.  It is not our culture nor is it a reason we are there.  The Bombing on the other hand does fall into our reason for being there.  My condolences to those who lost loved ones.  I hope it notches up the locals resistance to support/ tolerate the taliban.  That would have a fairer chance then expecting certain types of people from jumping on this event as further proof that we (as in the west or the US) are doing wrong or supporting something that should not be supported.  

Thanks for clearing up the Geoharpers issue I thought something was missing, but then again his tone led me to believe I wasn't missing much


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## Flip (18 Feb 2008)

I've not seen the G&M article or the comments.
I would like to.

From what I understand, from a documentary a couple of years ago,
Dog fighting in Afghanistan is not the same evil spectacle as practised
in North America.  The defining difference being some regard for the
welfare of the dog and the fights over when one of the animals retreats
or fleas.

Clearly , I don't know but I wonder if the outrage would be tempered by
this knowledge or is the left side of this argument unable to stop applying 
western standards to an Asian culture?  >


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## Teeps74 (18 Feb 2008)

Suicide bomber kills 80 at Afghan dogfight 

And todays:

Canadian convoy hit; 37 Afghan civilians dead 

The story on the dog fight comments section has been closed, but you can still read it. Be ready to get angry though, as some of the commentary there is, disgusting.


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## Flip (18 Feb 2008)

Thanks Teeps,

I read that crap ( and sometimes jump in ) to make sure there is a rebuttal.
The rebuttal is usually more logical and cohesive than the anti-establishment
noise.  The mythical pipeline now has more fans than Nessie and OgoPogo
combined and my favorite peeve is the moral equivalence offered to terrorists.

I think my best wedge is to liken NATO and ISAF to police enforcing 
international law.  Afghanistan is the drug house at the end of the street.
Who wouldn't call the cops?


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## georgeharper (20 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> What factual comment?



That Hamid Karzai said there should be negotiations with the Taliban



> You haven't had any comments removed.



Yes. I did


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## Teeps74 (20 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> Yes. I did



ROFL ok, will a mod clear up that little discussion as to who moved that trolling post of Mr GH here? Following the thread in question, the mods were mystified as to who moved the post to the warnings system, but it is still there, for all to see.


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## Yrys (20 Feb 2008)

The post was moved, not removed, as far as I can see...

A mod put in first in the warning section...

Georgeharper - Verbal Warning


Édit : changed the way the link appear


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## Panzer Grenadier (20 Feb 2008)

Can we return to the topic at hand - the murder of 80 Afghans.  I can definitely see a developing pattern of mass slaughter of crowds of civilians by suicide bombers in markets, gatherings etc.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Feb 2008)

georgeharper said:
			
		

> Yes. I did



I agree, lets get this back on topic,.....but lets just clear up one point first.

georgeharper, 
I just went through all your posts [ yes, we can see the deleted ones too] and not a post of yours has been deleted,................stop buying the dollar store tinfoil, it doesn't have the same blocking abilities as good old Alcan.


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## tomahawk6 (20 Feb 2008)

Some pic's.






Canadian Soldiers of the International Security Assistance Force stand near there damaged vehicle after a suicide attack in Spin Boldak, in Kandahar province, Afghanistan, Monday, Feb 18, 2008





A Canadian soldier of the International Security Assistance Force take pictures from his damaged vehicle after a suicide attack in Spin Boldak, in Kandahar province, Afghanistan, Monday, Feb. 18, 2008. A suicide car bomber targeting a Canadian military convoy detonated his explosives at a busy market in southern Afghanistan on Monday, killing 37 civilians, officials said.


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## 1feral1 (22 Feb 2008)

Nice 5.45mm 40 rd mag in the bottom pic


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## helpup (25 Feb 2008)

Nice Pict's but off topic isn't it?

Well most of the furor has died down over the event and as I thought there was the usual "outrage" about supporting a regime that condons 'dog fighting".  I wonder if we as a country will ever get past the initial "gut reaction" to tragic events.  In my mind the event was about a large loss of life during a event (that although to current western standards is considered barbaric) the loss of HUMAN life was considered secondary ( by many vocal groups) to the fact they were gathered at a dogfight.  Conclusions were reached as people used this event to further add to their belief that we should not be there.  Then  a short time later all gone and forgotten left to sit on the backburner until this event is used out of context to justify not being there.  The whole thing reminds me of my favorite Quote.  " Never underestimate the power of people to be stupid"


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## Kendrick (26 Feb 2008)

Hehe hey I know who's the guy taking the picture.  When you coming back buddy?  Hope all is good.

I am a bit late, but regarding the attack in the Arghandab, which happened the day of my departure, do we know more specifically where in the area it occured?


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