# 9 New Zealand Victoria Crosses stolen



## uptheglens (2 Dec 2007)

I hemmed and hawed over which forum to post this in, then settled on this one. Mods, please move it or hole it if you think otherwise.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/200712021852/uphams_victoria_cross_and_others_taken_in_army_museum_heist

 Nine Victoria Crosses - including Charles Upham's - and two George Crosses are among irreplaceable military medals stolen in a break-in at the Waiouru Army Museum early on Sunday morning.

The Army says the other Victoria Crosses stolen include those given to Keith Elliot, Jack Hinton and Clive Hulme, and an unknown number of other medals.

Defence Minister Phil Goff has described the theft as a crime against the nation.

Mr Goff says New Zealanders will be appalled and disgusted at the greed and self interest of those who have stolen the medals.

He says the items are national treasures, earned by men who served their country with courage and selflessness.

Mr Goff says the medals will be almost impossible to sell within New Zealand, and the Government will work with Interpol to make it as hard as possible to market them internationally.
Break-in

The Chief of Army, Major General Lou Gardiner, says the museum was broken into just after midnight on Sunday.

He says the value of the medals is what they symbolise, and he is angry at the theft.

"This theft is not just from Defence and Army, it is from the nation. New Zealand's history and heritage is closely interwoven with its military history and heritage.

"These medals were awarded to their recipients for their extraordinary valour and have come to symbolise the huge sacrifices that all New Zealanders made in the many conflicts fought for the freedoms we have come to accept."

Major General Gardner says the theft of the medals is a theft from New Zealand and as such is a serious crime calling for the co-operation of all New Zealanders in their recovery."

He says the NZDF and NZ Army are working closely with police who are leading the investigations. Customs has also been notified and put on a border alert in case there is an attempt to get the medals out of the country.

The NZDF says security staff alerted by an alarm activation found displays had been broken into in the museum's Valour annex.
List of medals

It says the list of medals it fears have been taken are those of Samuel Frickleton VC; Leslie Andrew VC; Randolph Ridling (Albert Medal); Reginald Judson VC, DCM, MM; John Grant VC; Henry Laurent VC; Jack Hinton VC; Clive Hulme VC; Keith Elliot VC; Charles Upham VC and Bar; David Russell GC and Ken Hudson GC.

The Victoria Cross for New Zealand medal recently awarded to Corporal Willie Apiata is not among them.

Police have set up a hotline number and want anyone who was in the Waiouru area, or passing through, between midnight and 2am Sunday and who may have seen anything to contact them on 0800 349 0606.

Copyright © 2007 Radio New Zealand




Absolutely sickening that pondlife like this would do such a thing. Here's hoping that they find the scum who did this quickly and recover ALL the decorations taken before they disappear for generations.




Edit topic name for clarity.


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## X-mo-1979 (2 Dec 2007)

And what kind of market value would they really represent?
Who the heck would buy stolen VC's that a COUNTRY are looking for?
Hope they catch the thief,and make an example of him.


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## Kat Stevens (2 Dec 2007)

There are plenty of nasty people out there who would buy them, and lock them away from the world forever.


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## Mike Baker (2 Dec 2007)

Makes me sick


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## George Wallace (2 Dec 2007)

Canadian museums learned the hard way, just as the NZ museums have just done, that you do not put VC's on display.  They go in a vault and replicas are displayed.  It was the RCR Museum that lost theirs one Christmas years ago.  Everyone reacted to that theft and now protect their valuable medals in safe locations, displaying only replicas of no value.  

A single VC can start at over $75,000 (and that is a low guess) on the open markets and only goes up in worth, depending on the providence and what else accompanies it in the 'rack'.


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## COBRA-6 (2 Dec 2007)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> And what kind of market value would they really represent?
> Who the heck would buy stolen VC's that a COUNTRY are looking for?
> Hope they catch the thief,and make an example of him.



Hundreds of thousands is not out of line for some VC's, but that is on the open market, not black. Who would buy them? The same type of person that would buy stolen art masterpieces... as Kat said the world is full of lowlifes, including rich ones that want something no one else has...


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## SeaKingTacco (2 Dec 2007)

I was at that museum in February.  Very impressive historical collection and method of displaying artifacts.  The VC collection was in a very secure room, inside a building that is built like a fortress.  This hit wasn't planned on the back of a cigarette pack, IMHO.


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## geo (2 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A VC can start at over $75,000 (and that is a low guess) on the open markets and only goes up in worth, depending on the providence and what else accompanies it in the 'rack'.


Considering that you are now dealing with pert much every VC earned by a country, in one lot, including a VC WITH BAR,  the sky is the limit... but this is a collection that could never be put on display by anyone ever again.  This theft is BIG & I don't know if the "buyer" has considered the size of the hornet's nest he has disturbed.


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## uptheglens (2 Dec 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Considering that you are now dealing with pert much every VC earned by a country, in one lot, including a VC WITH BAR,  the sky is the limit... but this is a collection that could never be put on display by anyone ever again.  This theft is BIG & I don't know if the "buyer" has considered the size of the hornet's nest he has disturbed.



I agree entirely, geo. Maybe it comes from watching too much TV, but I have this nagging feeling that this is an inside job. But again, I hope that I'm wrong.


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## George Wallace (2 Dec 2007)

Well, from what has already been published here, by SeaKing Tacco, it would definitely look like an inside job, even if it was done by a 'Temp' worker or a contractor.


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## 1feral1 (2 Dec 2007)

As far as I am concerned this is lower than robbing the dead. Theft from a nation's trust of national significance is the lowest of low, and yes plenty of money in rich private collections around the world.

Hope they are all caught, named and nationally shamed.


Wes


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## Michael OLeary (2 Dec 2007)

Could this be a politically motivated act?  Some group at odds with the government thinking these might be leverage by holding them hostage to certain outcomes or decisions?


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## geo (2 Dec 2007)

Michael.... that could very well be the explanation for such an act...

IF they are held "hostage", we'll be hearing about this for a wee while BUT, I wager that the resources of the nation are being applied to their recovery.


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## Bill Smy (3 Dec 2007)

New Zealand
Army medal theft 'insult' to our nation's heritage 
6:00PM Sunday December 02, 2007 
By Derek Cheng 

Nine Victoria Crosses were among a dozen medals stolen from the Waiouru Army Museum early this morning, in what the Defence Force says is an insult to the nation's heritage and history. 

Defence Force personnel and police are appalled at what appears to have been a well-executed robbery that targeted the gallantry medals in a building protected by an alarm, security cameras and regular patrols. 

The alarm at the museum went off at 1.10am, but when a security guard arrived within minutes, there was no sign of the thieves. 

Two George Medals and an Albert Medal were also taken in the robbery. The most recent addition to the VC medals - awarded to Corporal Willy Apiata - was not taken. 

The VC is regarded as the highest military honour that can be awarded. 

Chief of Army Major General Lou Gardiner said the theft was an attack on everything that soldiers had fought for in the last century. 

"The value of these medals is what they symbolise and what they were awarded for. They were awarded for extraordinary valour, for courage and commitment and come to symbolise what our military forces have committed to over the years. It's a lot more than just monetary value. 

"My message to the thieves is that you've stolen an important part of New Zealand's heritage. [These are] just not some medals for some medal collector. They symbolise some huge sacrifices that New Zealanders, over a century worth of conflicts, have actually put in for their country." 

Defence Minister Phil Goff said the theft was a crime against the nation. 

"These medals are national treasures. New Zealanders will be appalled and disgusted at the greed and self-interest of those who have stolen the medals." 

The museum's executive trustee, Lt Gen (Rtd) Don McIver, said the medals would be worth millions on the black market. 

"Some of them will be hard to sell. Every one of them is identified by name on the medal and in that context they could be identifiable as stolen. 

"But that wouldn't mean hard collectors wouldn't be prepared to have the medals, even if they couldn't display them. 

"They can't be replaced. You can get replicas of the medal sets, but they are known as replicas and in terms of value, it's nominal." 

The family of New Zealand's most decorated soldier, Captain Charles Upham, last year sold his VC and Bar for an undisclosed amount, estimated to be well in excess of $1 million. 

When asked to describe what he thought of the offenders, Mr McIver said: "I don't think I could out loud." 

Inspector Steve Mastrovich said the thieves seemed to know what they were looking for. 

"Entry was gained through a fire escape at the back of the building ... by smashing a window and opening a door. 

"They targeted the Valour Alcove, which is where the gallantry medals are kept. It looks as though it was well-planned and well-executed. 

"Some material was left behind, so it looks like they possibly had an idea of what they were looking for." 

He said the thieves only broke into one display cabinet before escaping through a fire escape door. He had yet to determine how they fled the scene. 

Major General Gardiner said there were no leads at this stage. 

All security measures at the museum - including reinforced glass, security patrols and security cameras - had worked as they should have. 

"In an event like this the security will be looked at again. But all the standard operating procedures were activated and ... everyone's done the right thing at the right time," he said. 

Video footage has been handed to the police. Border control had also been put on alert in case someone tried to tae the medals out of the country. 

The medals that were stolen belonged to the museum, families of war heroes and trusts. All artefacts in the museum are insured. 

The museum director was last night making contact with all families of medal-winners. 

Police have set up a hotline - 0800 349 0606 - for anyone that may have information leading to the recovery of the medals.
_________________


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## XMP (4 Dec 2007)

Further update on the stolen medals:

Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:20:12 +0100

From: Museum Security Network Mailing list <>
Subject: [MSN] Museum Theft. New Zealand. Police intend to interview
the entire town of Waiouru in the search for 100 medals stolen from
the Army Museum.
To: <>
Message-ID: <>

Whole of Waiouru to be interviewed
3/12/2007 17:04:04
Police intend to interview the entire town of Waiouru in the search for 100
medals stolen from the Army Museum.
The medals include nine Victoria Crosses and two George Crosses.

Police will interview anyone who can be identified as being in the area at
the time of the theft yesterday, including soldiers. That is around 500
people. They will also scour footage from petrol stations as far as two
hours drive away.

A detailed scene examination has been carried out, but police still do not
have any strong leads.

Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:34:45 +0100
From: Museum Security Network Mailing list <>
Subject: [MSN] New Zealand: Full-scale review of museum security
needed
To: <>
Message-ID: <>
Full-scale review of museum security needed
Monday, 3 December 2007, 4:54 pm

Press Release: New Zealand National Party 

Wayne Mapp MP

National Party Defence Spokesman
3 December 2007
Full-scale review of museum security needed
National's Defence spokesman Wayne Mapp is calling on the Government to
conduct a full-scale review of all museums carrying valuable war medals.
Dr Mapp says the theft of nine of the country's 22 Victoria Crosses as well
as two George Crosses and an Albert Medal from the Army Museum at Waiouru,
should prompt the Government to ensure security at the Wigram Airforce
Museum and the Navy Museum at Devonport, is absolutely sound.
"Medals bestowed on our military personnel are part of our national heritage
and must be safeguarded for future generations.
"Both museums at Wigram and Devonport are home to a number of valuable
medals which must not be put at risk.
"While the current focus must be on retrieving the stolen medals, the
Government should be reviewing security operations at Wigram and Devonport
to ensure a theft like this never happens again."

Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:37:11 +0100
From: Museum Security Network Mailing list <>
Subject: [MSN] Museum Theft. New Zealand. Heart ripped out of museum.

Colonel Raymond Seymour "aged 100 years" the moment he was told the
nation's military treasures were stolen under his watch.

To: <>

Message-ID: <>


Monday, 03 December 2007200712030500 

Heart ripped out of museum

Colonel Raymond Seymour "aged 100 years" the moment he was told the nation's
military treasures were stolen under his watch.
The Waiouru Army Museum director, who took on the role this year following
his retirement from the Army, said yesterday's brazen medal theft had
"ripped the guts" out of the country.
Nine Victoria Crosses, including Charles Upham's VC and Bar, two rare George
Crosses and an Albert Medal were among those stolen.
"These are the nation's treasures and how anyone can do this I just can't
work it out. All of of us here, from the custodians to all the staff are
absolutely devastated," Col Seymour said.
"I've aged 100 years today. I was already old but when they told me I
thought my heart was going to drop out.
"But we'll catch the b*****ds, there's no doubt about that."
Col Seymour said he been at a function in Taihape on Saturday night and
drove past the museum northbound at 11pm, two hours prior to the theft.
Being the "good director" he is, he noted that all the right lights were on
and all appeared quiet, before continuing north.
Police eventually tracked him down at 6am and told him of the break-in.
"I've still got a stranded wife in Taupo to explain to after I ran out this
morning. I couldn't even tell her then what was happening, I just had to
leave.

"It's the worst news I've ever received at 6am on a Sunday morning. It's
possibly the worst news I've ever received fullstop."
Col Seymour said records indicate a security guard reached the scene within
three minutes, a response time he was satisfied with.
General museum security would now be reviewed.
Ruapehu area police commander Inspector Steve Mastrovich said the offence
appeared to be well-planned and executed.
Museum security alerted police when the alarm was set off at 1.10am. he
said.

The thieves used tools to gain access to the building through a rear fire
escape and headed straight to the three display cases in the Valour Alcove,
where the medals were kept.
They smashed the reinforced glass and rifled through the Victoria Cross
display cabinet, taking all the medals in the case.
A second case had about half its medals stolen, while the third was left
unscathed, Mr Mastrovich said.

The burglars then escaped through a different fire escape before guards
arrived.
Nothing else was touched.
A forensic examination was due to be completed today.
"It looks like they have known exactly where to go and what to target," he
said.
"We have to take it one step at a time, it's too early to say who is
responsible and why.
"It is a pretty audacious offence, a real insult to the country when you
think what these medals represent."


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## geo (4 Dec 2007)

Now, as Sherlock Holmes would say.... "the chase is on"....

Methinks that the thieves, if they are ever brought to trial, will find New Zeland justivce to be quite firm...


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## XMP (16 Feb 2008)

The stolen VCs and the rest of the medals have been recovered....
Story here:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10492926

Now if the thieves would get what's coming to them.... :threat:


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## 1feral1 (16 Feb 2008)

This is good news, and lets hope the two losers who STOLE them get found out. If they get away with this, it is still a dark cloud over the system.

Aside from being charged and convicted, the best punnishment would be to have them named and shamed.

I hope the cops keep searching.

Glad to see the medals back safely.


Wes


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## uptheglens (17 Feb 2008)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> This is good news, and lets hope the two losers who STOLE them get found out. If they get away with this, it is still a dark cloud over the system.
> 
> Aside from being charged and convicted, the best punnishment would be to have them named and shamed.
> 
> ...



It's terrific that the medals are back safely, but the way that this is being handled stinks to high heaven. According to the link, the pondlife thieves are actually going to be GETTING a slice of the reward money, as that was their demand for returning the medals.  :threat:  :threat:  :threat:

My flabber is gasted, and I honestly had to re-read the story to make sure I wasn't imagining this.


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## geo (17 Feb 2008)

Well, a lot of good news.... at least NZ have their heirlooms back... 
Now that the business transaction has been taken care of.... I hope the lowlifes have a settlement of account with their gang mates.  Kneecaps at 2 inches?


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