# English Flag Offends Muslim Prisoners



## D-n-A (6 Oct 2005)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html

Race fears spark St. George ban

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 Posted: 1249 GMT (2049 HKT) 

LONDON, England (CNN) -- British prison officers who wore a St. George's Cross tie-pin have been ticked off by the jails watchdog over concerns about the symbol's racist connotations.

The pins showing the English flag -- which has often raised hackles due to its connection with the Crusades of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries -- could be "misconstrued," Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said in a section on race in a report on a jail in the northern English city of Wakefield.

The banner of St. George, the red cross of a martyr on a white background, was adopted for the uniform of English soldiers during the military expeditions by European powers to recapture the Holy Land from Muslims, and later became the national flag of England.

A section on race relations in Owers' report said: "We were concerned to see a number of staff wearing a flag of St. George tie-pin.

"While we were told that these had been bought in support of a cancer charity there was clear scope for misinterpretation, and Prison Service Orders made clear that unauthorized badges and pins should not be worn."

As one of her formal recommendations Owers said: "Staff should not wear unauthorized badges or pins."

Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades.

"A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history," he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam.

"Muslim or Arab prisoners could take umbrage if staff wore a red cross badge. It's also got associations with the far-right. Prison officers should be seen to be neutral."

Doyle added that it was now time for England to find a new flag and a patron saint who is "not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with."


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## Pencil Tech (6 Oct 2005)

Oh for God's sake. "Find" a new patron saint? What a plonker.


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## Slim (6 Oct 2005)

> "Muslim or Arab prisoners could take umbrage if staff wore a red cross badge. It's also got associations with the far-right. Prison officers should be seen to be neutral."



What a load of crap.

I wonder if the muslims would do the same for English prisoners?

Why does the west feel the need to constantly give these people the upper hand and sacrificing hundreds of years of culture in the process...And not just the tie pins of prison gurds either!

The bottom line is that they would NEVER do the same for us!


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## The_Falcon (7 Oct 2005)

One more thing to chalk up to Political Corectness run amok.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Oct 2005)

Sorry, I don't see it that way. Yes his line about England needing a new flag is stupid however the unauthourized wearing of pins, etc  while working in a jail is a very valid security concern.
While we were told that these had been bought in support of a cancer charity there was clear scope for misinterpretation, and Prison Service Orders made clear that unauthorized badges and pins should not be worn."

So if I showed up tomorrow with a pin of Hamas on my uniform I would be required to take it off. Something about a goose and gander....


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## 1feral1 (7 Oct 2005)

What does not offend the muslims these days  :crybaby: ? If they are so in love with their way of life I am sure many infidels out there will give them a one-way ticket back to their own troubled shithole land from whence they came.

Wes


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## Kat Stevens (7 Oct 2005)

Jesus jumping fucking Christ on a pogo stick,  this shyte sets my teeth on edge.  The only thing it's not OK to be in England anymore is a fucking Englishman.  This dogcrap promotes a racist backlash, when will these shagging pinheads get that?  First thing we do when I take over, we put all the civil rights arse pickers up against the wall......

Sickening :threat:


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Oct 2005)

Sorry guys,much ado about nothing. This is a case of a "journalist" getting the best of us.... here is the bottom, and only, line that matters in this story,
As one of her formal recommendations Owers said: "Staff should not wear unauthorized badges or pins."

Which I fully concur with, everything else written here is to make a story out of a non-story.
Stop taking the bait.....


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## Kat Stevens (7 Oct 2005)

....Second thing we do;  Make the reporters bury the civil rights bodies, then put them up against the wall.... " There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got spots! If I had my way, I'd have all of ya shot!"

Name That Tune


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Oct 2005)

"Pink isn't well, he stayed back at the hotel, but he sent us along as a surrogate band, we're gonna find out where Kat really stands....


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## scm77 (7 Oct 2005)

Semi-related...

*Muslims win toy pigs ban*

NOVELTY pig calendars and toys have been banned from a council office - in case they offend Muslim staff.

Workers in the benefits department at Dudley Council, West Midlands, were told to remove or cover up all pig-related items, including toys, porcelain figures, calendars and *even a tissue box featuring Winnie the Pooh and Piglet*.

Bosses acted after a Muslim complained about pig-shaped stress relievers delivered to the council in the run-up to the Islamic festival of Ramadan.

Muslims are barred from eating pork in the Koran and consider pigs unclean.

Councillor Mahbubur Rahman, a practising Muslim, backed the ban. He said: "It's a tolerance of people's beliefs."
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450600,00.html
--------------------------
 :


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## Britney Spears (7 Oct 2005)

> The pins showing the English flag -- which has often raised hackles due to its connection with the Crusades of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries -- could be "misconstrued," Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said in a section on race in a report on a jail in the northern English city of Wakefield.
> 
> The banner of St. George, the red cross of a martyr on a white background, was adopted for the uniform of English soldiers during the military expeditions by European powers to recapture the Holy Land from Muslims, and later became the national flag of England.



Might I add that the reporter apparently pulled all of the above entirely out of his/her ass? The only statement that's even remotely accurate are the dates for the Crusades!

While the cross of St. George does bear some resembelence to the cross of the Knights Templar, they are not related in any meaningful way. Not that the article even mentioned the Knights Templar at all. 

Also, since the Muslims WON most of the Crusades, you'd think it would be more of a point of pride...


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## ExistancE (7 Oct 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Might I add that the reporter apparently pulled all of the above entirely out of his/her ***? The only statement that's even remotely accurate are the dates for the Crusades!
> 
> While the cross of St. George does bear some resembelence to the cross of the Knights Templar, they are not related in any meaningful way. Not that the article even mentioned the Knights Templar at all.
> 
> Also, since the Muslims WON most of the Crusades, you'd think it would be more of a point of pride...



Just to throw in my 2 cents weren't the templars founded in France and primarily a French order? Didn't the English have a white cross on a red field? 

Furthermore it is my understanding that the crusades were a response to Islamic agression and defensive in nature (at least theoreticaly) and not the "brutal Christian agression against Islam" that this article tries to paint it as.

I can't even voice my opinion on the social situations and it's implications but I will say this. This PC push has led to a situation where the only diversity not tolerated is diversity of opinion.


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## RangerRay (7 Oct 2005)

So does that mean that all the provincial flags with the Cross of St. George have to be changed as well, so that Muslims are not offended?


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## Britney Spears (7 Oct 2005)

> Just to throw in my 2 cents weren't the templars founded in France and primarily a French order?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templars



> Didn't the English have a white cross on a red field?



You're thinking of the Hospitallers.



> Furthermore it is my understanding that the crusades were a response to Islamic agression and defensive in nature (at least theoreticaly) and not the "brutal Christian agression against Islam" that this article tries to paint it as.



I think most modern scholars like to think of it as the first European campaign of overseas colonization, since the Crusader kingdoms were basically Western European colonies in a predominantly Muslim population. So yeah, I'd agree that they were primarily acts of christian Aggression. It was a little bit more complex back then, since there were more than just two sides. Various Muslim and Xtians factions often allied with each other against their co-religionists, e.g. The sack of Constantinople, the center of Eastern Christianity, by Western Catholics,  and the interactions between the Arabs, Sejuk Turks,  the Mongol Il-Khanate, Egyptian Mamluks, etc, who were all Muslims but were mutually antagonistic.


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## The_Falcon (7 Oct 2005)

ExistancE said:
			
		

> Just to throw in my 2 cents weren't the templars founded in France and primarily a French order? Didn't the English have a white cross on a red field?
> 
> Furthermore it is my understanding that the crusades were a response to Islamic agression and defensive in nature (at least theoreticaly) and not the "brutal Christian agression against Islam" that this article tries to paint it as.
> 
> I can't even voice my opinion on the social situations and it's implications but I will say this. This PC push has led to a situation where the only diversity not tolerated is diversity of opinion.


 Not to get off topic, but no, the Templars (or Knights of the Temple of Solomon) were founded in Jerusalem (by a French Guy) after the first crusade, to aid and protect the pilgrims in the area.   They had recruits/land etc in all of Europe.   Google is a wonderful thing.

EDIT: Britney beat me to it, point to note though Brit, the Hospitallers (Knights of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem), wore black robes (not red) with white crosses.


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## Britney Spears (7 Oct 2005)

OK, fine, but in my defence, the modern Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the direct succesor to the Hospitallers, does use the white on red emblem.  

I should add that IMO, the Crusades were far more influential on Western Europe than they were on the Middle Eastern Muslim states, who had far more important problems, like the Turkic and Mongol invasions, to worry about.


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## COBRA-6 (7 Oct 2005)

scm77 said:
			
		

> Semi-related...
> 
> *Muslims win toy pigs ban*
> 
> ...



This is madness! Absolute madness!!! _No one_, regardless of religion, should feel entitled to go through life without being exposed to something that "offends" them... 

Where do we stop? Pig paraphernalia offends Muslims? Ban them... Model fighter jets offend peaceniks? Ban them... Truck calendars offend tree-huggers? Ban them... if we head down this road we'll end up in a sterile, Orwellian world...

I can't believe things like this actually happen, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Has the world lost it's mind?  ??? Arghhh...


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## George Wallace (7 Oct 2005)

Well, just recently we have been seeing them take the "Christ" out of Christmas.   We are disintergrating as a society.   We are on "Self-Destruct".   Even Santa Clause is offensive to some.   

"It was the night before A Nondenominational Winter Holiday
when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, 
not even a mouse.
The Neutral Gift Sacks were hung by the chimney with care
in the hopes that a Nonspecific Holiday Figure would soon be there.
Children of all race, creed and nationality were resting all snug in their beds
while visions of Sugarfree gum were dancing in their heads........."


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## COBRA-6 (7 Oct 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well, just recently we have been seeing them take the "Christ" out of Christmas.   We are disintergrating as a society.   We are on "Self-Destruct".   Even Santa Clause is offensive to some.



Not to mention the trend of replacing "Merry Christmas" with "Happy Holidays"...  

I think Santa needs to start kicking some a$$... _"Your mistletoe is no match for my TOW missile!"_


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## winchable (7 Oct 2005)

I'm just offended all around really,
I'm also quite offensive to be frank,
I'm offended by my own shear offensiveness to a point that the offence taken by myself at myself offends others, which in return I find offensive.
The offensiveness of others tends to offend me most, to put it bluntly, I'm offended by the offence taken at the offence taken.

The comment about racial backlash because of this (Kat Stevens posted that, which I find delightful in view of his namesake's new moniker and lifestyle choice) is bang on. 
Just based on the reaction of some of the people here pretty much solidifies that idea, the more offended you are by something the more offended other people are going to be by your offence and that's when people get the stakes and torches out and I'm being torn into halves by equally angry mobs because I'm White, English Born and raised with St. George's cross tattooed in my back, but My Mum's Arab and her family is Muslim.

"We hate him, we will take care of him"
"No we hate him more, let us have him"
"The hell you can mate, we're going to string this filthy Sandnigger/wog/towelhead/cameljockey up and make an example."
"We will deal with the infidel/whitedevil/englishman"
"I have an idea, we'll string the bloke up together."
"Yes, let us kill him as a team."

Actually as an aside note, my death might serve the greater good of mankind by rallying the human race behind my lynching and subsequent disemboweling.

Back to my original point, in light of the afformentioned offences I vote we end this awful earth experiment and focus on ruining another planet, perhaps Mars?


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## George Wallace (7 Oct 2005)

No.  Mars is out.  After all it is named after the God (damn another Religious connotation.) of War.  Can't have that now can we?


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## winchable (7 Oct 2005)

No you're right, perhaps if everyone moved to one side of the earth and jumped we could spin off in to the sun and just settle our differences like sensible folk.


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## geo (7 Oct 2005)

Hmmm....

If the muslim inmates of uk (and CDN?) prisons have a problem with the red cross of St George because it offends them..... does that mean that the female personnel in the correctional service will have to wear "chador" or "burka" and walk behind the inmates in a diminutive / submissive role with eyes cast down?............. NOT!

If they want to protect their sensibilities, they have no business being in jail in the 1st place.
Should we start chopping off hands for theives?............. You don't want to be offended? then stay out of jail.


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## George Wallace (7 Oct 2005)

I wonder if they also take offence to the FTA guy?   After all, Mercury is also a God.   

Does that mean that they will object to the fact that flowers are delivered to their homes/place of work/or where ever?   How many Copyrighted Logos and symbols will have to be trashed in this new PC World.   I imagine someone will find plaid offensive...   :


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## Kat Stevens (7 Oct 2005)

Che said:
			
		

> Actually as an aside note, my death might serve the greater good of mankind by rallying the human race behind my lynching and subsequent disemboweling.



Why not? 2000 years ago a guy was nailed to a tree for saying it would be nice to be nice to each other for a change.  Look how that snowballed.  So now we've spent 2 millenia making others be nice, by force if necessary... see how well that's worked out so far?  I personally am offended by children.  Their shrill little voices, and eternally snotty noses, and that annoying tendency to have fun every now and then.  Teenagers too, don't get me started on teenagers......Ban anyone under the age of 25.  When I take over, retroactive abortions are being implemented.


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## geo (7 Oct 2005)

starting with your Mum? (JK)


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## Michael Dorosh (7 Oct 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> This is madness! Absolute madness!!! _No one_, regardless of religion, should feel entitled to go through life without being exposed to something that "offends" them...
> 
> Where do we stop? Pig paraphernalia offends Muslims? Ban them... Model fighter jets offend peaceniks? Ban them... Truck calendars offend tree-huggers? Ban them... if we head down this road we'll end up in a sterile, Orwellian world...
> 
> I can't believe things like this actually happen, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Has the world lost it's mind?   ??? Arghhh...



Calm down and read the key sentence up above.

Bosses acted after a Muslim complained about pig-shaped stress relievers delivered to the council in the run-up to the Islamic festival of Ramadan.

I'd suggest the timing was bad.  I'd also suggest it is possible the Muslim gentleman or lady had other issues and wanted to make a point, or just stir up trouble. Or possibly was genuinely offended.  I'd say they had a right to be.  Like buying pizza for the whole office and having bacon on it; Jewish guy would probably get a bit miffed.  He has that right.  Before we order pizza, generally we ask stuff like "do you eat meat" in case they are a vegetarian, etc.  Common courtesy.

It extends backwards too; Jewish guy or Muslim guy shouldn't assume someone was trying to offend him.  If I knew I had a Muslim staff member, I would hope to be savvy enough not to distribute "pig-shaped stress relievers."

Of course, if I was really trying to piss the guy off or offend him, I'd cover my desk in little piggies and watch him squirm.


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## ExistancE (7 Oct 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templars
> 
> You're thinking of the Hospitallers.
> 
> I think most modern scholars like to think of it as the first European campaign of overseas colonization, since the Crusader kingdoms were basically Western European colonies in a predominantly Muslim population. So yeah, I'd agree that they were primarily acts of christian Aggression. It was a little bit more complex back then, since there were more than just two sides. Various Muslim and Xtians factions often allied with each other against their co-religionists, e.g. The sack of Constantinople, the center of Eastern Christianity, by Western Catholics,   and the interactions between the Arabs, Sejuk Turks,   the Mongol Il-Khanate, Egyptian Mamluks, etc, who were all Muslims but were mutually antagonistic.



Thanks for the post. I suppose because the templars were founded by a frenchman I somehow got it into my head that they were french.

I do have to disagree with you on the idea that the Crusades were acts of Christian agression. 

If memory serves me the very root of the crusades in the late 11th century was an appeal to the western church headed by pope urban from the byzantine emperor who had just suffered a serious defeat at the hands of the turks. For hundreds of years the eastern empire had been fighting off repeated muslim incursions. This was the result of the rapid growth of islam through conquest. Areas like lebananon and palestine that are commonly thought of as muslim were hugely christian until being overrun by muslim armies. This pattern of islamic agression against europe continued until the siege of vienna in the late 17th century. 8 or 900 years earlier the muslims had overrun spain and made it into france. I think they were stopped at the battle of tours. Anyway it seems to me that by the time the crusades rolled around europe was being squeezed pretty hard by islam, especially in the east, which had been acting like a buffer. If the crusader states, for the relatively short time they held power, are considered imperialistic then so be it. I still think the crusades were the result of rapid islamic military expansionism and were more defensive on the part of europe then anything else. I apologize for sketchy dates.


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## 48Highlander (7 Oct 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Like buying pizza for the whole office and having bacon on it; Jewish guy would probably get a bit miffed.   He has that right.   Before we order pizza, generally we ask stuff like "do you eat meat" in case they are a vegetarian, etc.   Common courtesy.



I hate olives.   Now, in the past, when people ordered pizza, and had olives on it, I'd just pick them off and toss 'em.   In the future though, thanks to your guidance, I shall get miffed and sue


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## Michael Dorosh (7 Oct 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> I hate olives.   Now, in the past, when people ordered pizza, and had olives on it, I'd just pick them off and toss 'em.   In the future though, thanks to your guidance, I shall get miffed and sue



You're out of order, mister.  Get miffed, whine and cry, then sue even though the problem rectified itself two months ago.  It's the new Canadian way.


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## Slim (7 Oct 2005)

I have just one point to make....

I have no trouble making room for someone elses belief system, even to the point of dialing back my own.

However it should be give and take.....Not give and give some more because its being demanded by a certain percenage of the population.

That BS and has no place in this country...If people like a certain belief system then they aught to go to a country where that system already holds sway...Not my home!


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## Michael Dorosh (7 Oct 2005)

I think that's fair enough, Slim.  

If we order pizza, I'll be considerate enough to ask if anyone objects to onions or bacon.  I would be shocked to have someone tell me I could no longer order onions or bacon for myself because the mere presence of such in the room was offensive to someone.


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## winchable (7 Oct 2005)

So they gave out stuffed piggy stress relievers as a part of preparing for Ramadan?
Meaning they gave a Muslim a pig shaped stress ball as a part of the preparations for Ramadan?? As a joke sort of thing?
I mean give an ultra-Orthodox Jew a pig shaped ball at Hannukah and see if he doesn't say something.

2 sides to this, one of them is saying: Knowing that we live in litigation land (England moreso) and knowing how touchy certain issues are, why in God's name would you try and make such an un-PC gesture to a group of people who generally aren't cool about jokes at their religions expense?   It's called using common sense, just because you don't live in the PC world we all have to live in doesn't mean you're not going to get in shit when you don't act right.
Oh, right and yes Muslims whine at everything   :crybaby: I'm so hard done by, send all those wogs back from whence they came.

Now that being said, I think the real issue is this:

The fact that someone has actually gone out of the way to make this a rule/law in a government office rather then someone going up to someone else and going "Yeah, giving you a pig shaped ball was kind of stupid, especially right now." or "Mate, a pig shaped ball as a gift at Ramadan? Don't be a wank" "Aw, sorry man they were the only ones left in stock."
Why do I get the feeling if some of us actually behaved like we do here the answer would be "I meant every bit of it, this is my protest, I don't give  damn what you think."
Once again, common sense and meeting in the middle.
Guy A apologised for making a joke that might have came at a bad time, Guy B didn't involve everyone from Brighton to Edinburgh in a quest to eliminate the evil squishy pig from his desk, which could have easily been tossed into a dustbin and replaced by a paperweight or equally space occupying item.


THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is a 40 Pound solution to a 10 Pound problem.
Swatting a fly with a sledgehammer, killing a kangaroo with a cannon etc. etc....slaughtering a pig with a ritulalistically oversized novelty knife...ahaha...ahh. *whince*


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## Kirkhill (7 Oct 2005)

Che, did you check out which Council it was?  To my knowledge it was Bradford.  

Doesn't Bradford have a large muslim population?  It seems kind of strange that somebody would have screwed up that badly.  It would be like handing out action figures of the Pope at a Rangers home game.


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## NavComm (7 Oct 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I think that's fair enough, Slim.
> 
> If we order pizza, I'll be considerate enough to ask if anyone objects to onions or bacon.  I would be shocked to have someone tell me I could no longer order onions or bacon for myself because the mere presence of such in the room was offensive to someone.



I agree but unfortunately that's already happening in workplaces all over the place. In my civvie job we have a worker who is sensitive to scents (sometimes), indoor temperature, (only while at work, she insists on keeping the place like a 475 degree oven but at home she leaves her windows and doors open all the time), noise (but this depends on whether or not she's taken her meds that day).

None of the bosses will stand up to her. She's intolerant of just about everyone and everything. I guess it's the old squeaky wheel syndrome...

I've had to refrain from bringing or wearing certain foods, flowers, anti-perspirperant, breath mints and the icing on the cake for me was when she  once said the person I commute with is wearing too much perfume and it's sticking to me so can I please just TELL my commuter friend to stop wearing perfume!


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## paracowboy (7 Oct 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> In my civvie job we have a worker who is sensitive to scents (sometimes), indoor temperature, (only while at work, she insists on keeping the place like a 475 degree oven but at home she leaves her windows and doors open all the time), noise (but this depends on whether or not she's taken her meds that day)..I've had to refrain from bringing or wearing certain foods, flowers, anti-perspirperant, breath mints and the icing on the cake for me was when she   once said the person I commute with is wearing too much perfume and it's sticking to me so can I please just TELL my commuter friend to stop wearing perfume!


legally, that qualifies her for a throat-punch.


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## 48Highlander (7 Oct 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> None of the bosses will stand up to her. She's intolerant of just about everyone and everything. I guess it's the old squeaky wheel syndrome...
> 
> I've had to refrain from bringing or wearing certain foods, flowers, anti-perspirperant, breath mints and the icing on the cake for me was when she   once said the person I commute with is wearing too much perfume and it's sticking to me so can I please just TELL my commuter friend to stop wearing perfume!



Simple response:  "No.  Next question"

If none of the bosses will stand up to her that certainly doesn't stop you from doing it.


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## DFW2T (7 Oct 2005)

I don't have anything intelligent to add to this topic but I will say that as one who fought for others rights in their own homelands,   I would like to think that immigrants who come to Canada would consider our (and now for many..their) country's' ethics, codes,religions   etc. and have a little common dog about the whole thing.   You can kill your neighbor in Bosnia/Kosovo   (even though you've been friends for years) and not feel remorse because it's a supposed right to rid your community of the Albanian/Serbian etc. (what ever side your on) scourge. You can blow up a school yard of children in Baghdad because the suicide bomber was trying to strike a coalition convoy and (you will still sit at the right hand of Allah with all the virgins etc blah blah blah)   .......As unacceptable as that is,   it's your country.......that's the reason NATO or the UN were there in the first place.   When you come to MY country and demand MY government to make sanctions on how we Canadians live life well that's a different.   I wonder if I went to Iraq, Syria, Afghan etc as a civilian worker and demanded Sundays off (because that's my religious holiday)(....how many days would I live??)
   I know as a Canadian culture we are the "MELTING POT" ( those in elementry school in 70's might remember the phrase)   where do we stop?   The way it's going, my children will NOT be able to live anywhere they desire within (as they should) in Canada if they are not the right religion, color etc.
   I should have GOOGLED this first but,   when you immigrate to Canada.....SHOULD YOU NOT WANT TO COME HERE BECAUSE IT'S A BETTER PLACE THAN WHERE YOU CAME FROM?   CAN YOU ASSIMILATE WITHOUT LOSING YOUR IDENTITY AND STILL LIVE IN THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WITHOUT FORCING OUR GOVERNMENT TO CHANGE OUR IDENTITY??
    End of my rant is, I don't bring pork, porn or alcohol to the Muslim countries I work in because I respect the cultures of the countries I   am a guest of..... 
      Why can't those who can't live in their own country be happy with their new country that they are now a part of?   Maybe they are just the type of people that are never happy anywhere?!


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## Spr.Earl (8 Oct 2005)

Aint Mutli Cult great? ;D


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## 1feral1 (8 Oct 2005)

DFW2T said:
			
		

> I   Why can't those who can't live in their own country be happy with their new country that they are now a part of?   Maybe they are just the type of people that are never happy anywhere?!



RANT ON

They know we are weak mate (the PC do-gooders will eagerly bow to them), and 'they' will milk us all for its worth, taking advantage of our own hospitality, honesty, and of course our welfare system. Buy the time the government actually acts on it, it will be too late, infact its to late now.   

Its only recenly that the Australian government is begining tightening muslim immigration, because of the mainstream Aussie unrest and GENUINE concern with islam here. Too many radical clerics in so called 'peaceful religion schools) influencing islamic youth, and we already know there is a growing number of 'clean skins' ready to meet their allah.

It was just a week ago that muslims snuck into the Hindu dominated Bali toursit districts, detonating 3 suicide bombs, killing, wait wrong word, MURDERING in cold blood 22 people, including 4 Australians (a 16 yr old boy, a married couple, and a 48 yr old woman (her husband is blinded in BOTH eyes)! 

So, in less than three years, with three separate bombings on Australian interests in Indonesia alone we have had 92 Australian people ( tourists, not soldiers, men, women and children, just holiday makers enjoying a tropical paradise - innocent - their crime was having a few drinks with family and friends) MURDERED by these followers of that peaceful religion, and dozens of Aussies wounded, many terribly. Then there was London, in July, where again an Aussie was killed, and several Australians horribly wounded (loss of limbs etc). 

Australian patience is wearing very thin with the islam in general (take a look at their ghettos in western Sydney - the ethnic based crime, anti-western attitude and a true 'in your face' dislike for mainstreamers. I have seen it all too often). 

I think all it will take is an attack on our soil to put most Aussies over the top with the whole lot! I hear the unrest daily in the news, papers, and even on talk radio, where over 95% of people polled (nationally) wanted a direct end to muslim immigration to Australia. There is nothing wrong with having immigrants from all over the world, but its when a minority, get a toe hold in power, anda begin to change things to their way, not giving a FAT RATS ARSE about anyone else, thats where it stops right there! 

I think it will take a loss of Canadians in a similar cowardly act for the mainstream populus to get their heads out of the sand and do something about it. Am I bitter? You better bloody believe it! I truly am, and I am NOT afraid to admit it.

And to think that our government gave Indonesia a BILLION dollars (tsunami relief), not including the many MILLIONS donated by genuine Australian citizens (including gullable me), and the Indonesian government won't even outlaw the terr org responsible for all the bombings, and have even given the leader of JI ( the terr og) a reduced sentance, the reduced it even further twice in the past 3 months. If I had my way, I'd take my donation back and pisss it into the wind. We've just been hood-winked by the largest muslim country (280,000,000 people on 13,000 islands - actually there is 16,000 islands , but 3000 uninhabited.) in the world.

RANT OFF!

Wes


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## old fart (8 Oct 2005)

Wes....

What would you make of this....in the wake of the London Bombings.

"Trevor Phillips, chairman of the UK Commission for Racial Equality, has called for an end to multiculturalism in Britain. Separateness is over, he said last week. It is time to rediscover the nation's belief in 'core British values' and integrate under an umbrella marked with the colours of the Union flag." 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1189775,00.html

Trevor Phillips is by the way from an ethnic minority.

A lesson for Canada.....perhaps,....and then again, likely not.


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## winchable (8 Oct 2005)

With the British it's easier to define their values and stick to them, based on the extensive history they have in integrating immigrants (which has obviously taken an apalling detour since the end of the empire) the atmosphere I got while there this year before *and* after the bombings was definetly a return to British values. At home they are dealing with the internationally publicised terror threat but also with a _serious_ erroding of what the majority of Britons feel are British Values and traditions (yobbish behaviour, happy slapping, louts), as a result you've got a definete movement.(it's always been there amongst the people, but the government and law/policy makers is another issue)

Before we follow suit in returning to our values, I'd like to know exactly what they are. After years of living in both countries as a citizen I am aware what part of me is acting on British values (a subjective statement yes) but I've never been completely certain what part of me is thinking Canadian. (keep the moose/beaver/syrup/mountie/hockey silliness to yourself gents)


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## geo (8 Oct 2005)

old fart said:
			
		

> Wes....
> What would you make of this....in the wake of the London Bombings.
> "Trevor Phillips, chairman of the UK Commission for Racial Equality, has called for an end to multiculturalism in Britain. Separateness is over, he said last week. It is time to rediscover the nation's belief in 'core British values' and integrate under an umbrella marked with the colours of the Union flag."
> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1189775,00.html
> ...



Old fart & Wes,
Our new Governor General is another one who has suggested that it might be time to do away with all our diversity and dispose of our ever present "two (or more) solitudes" & ethnic ghettos


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## Slim (8 Oct 2005)

Sure as heck something needs to be done!


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## Pfc_Norup (8 Oct 2005)




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## FastEddy (9 Oct 2005)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> So does that mean that all the provincial flags with the Cross of St. George have to be changed as well, so that Muslims are not offended?




I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen !. Plus lets not forget to remove the Cross of St. George from the Royal Navel Ensign.


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## Freddy Chef (9 Oct 2005)

> ...Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades.
> 
> "A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history," he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam.
> 
> ...



So, the crusades were back in the 11th - 13th centuries? Where the English, wearing St George's Cross, oppressed Muslims? Therefore, St George's Cross is a symbol of oppression? Ok. So, other than historians, who else is aware of this? Of modern day Muslims, how many are aware of this? How many modern day Muslims even care about St George's Cross as an issue? (Other than the sh** disturbers in that British prison?)

[Reiterating; what rights do prisoners have? And the issue of an insignia relating to an ancient grudge, is it reasonable grounds to complain? The Swastika is the only exception of an offensive insignia, since it was associated with genocide.]

It's nice to keep beliefs from the old country. But if you have such strong beliefs from the old country, then why are you here? [Britain, or elsewhere than the old country.]

Actually, I agree with the Muslim creed of cleanliness: clean body, clean health, clean mind, clean soul, clean attitude. So, forcing others to conform to your beliefs; is that really a clean attitude? It's fair to ask someone not to do something, because it bothers you in reference to your beliefs. But to have the whole system change on your behalf? St George's Cross a sign of oppression, and having it in plain view is oppressive, and not a clean attitude? Isn't forcing others to conform to your beliefs just as oppressive, and not a very clean attitude?

Apologies for any offence.


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## George Wallace (9 Oct 2005)

So....as this progresses.....Will all us who are named after St. George now have to change our names, so as not to offend some Religious Group?   All us "George's" will have to change our names.  Think of all the problems we'll now face, having to renew our Birth Certificates, Security Clearances, Driver's Licences, etc.   ;D  ;D  :


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## childs56 (9 Oct 2005)

face it when you are at war you use what ever leverage you have to maintain control of your self.  More so if you are in a cell some where, one of the golden rules is to not let them break you, every little victory you have is a morale booster. Guess what they got their morale boosted by this little victory. 

Seems the more we move to a better civilzation the more we walk back to loosing our own culture and identity for those whom could care less about us.


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## 1feral1 (9 Oct 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> Wes for Prime Minister.



Cheers Mate! ;D At least you didn't say  "Minister for Propaganda".


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## Steel Badger (9 Oct 2005)

Prisoners, as a rule, will bitch about anything. They also tend towards any activity that makes them "special" or can gain them special privileges...by doing so they gain in status amongst their peers for "sticking it to the man" and getting THEIR way, no matter how small or insignificant the issue.....


For example, it is a routine occurrence in the Correctional System for "Muslims of conIEnience" (ie. those who converted to Islam in the holding pen of Admitting and Discharge) to kick up a ruckus when they are issued a regular line meal...despite the fact that the last 15 times in prison they were "Christian".

Again as an example, Muslim or "MOC" inmates regularly seek to use their status as a minority (and government sensitivity towards minorities) to obtain special benefits etc out side those normally granted due to religion. They bank on the fact that most people, having been brow-beaten by "PC"-Dom, will back down...

(They certainly do not appreciate it when, in answer to their complaints about the "racist" white Christian prison system, you kindly inform them that in a Muslim prison they would minus several hands....)

This is true of most Inmates......They will scream for "Satanists Rights" if it means lockup for them is moved from 2000 to 0100 in order to accommodate their "Black Mass"....


Its all about "whats in it for them"

I don't blame the mopes....mopes is as mopes does.....


Its the simpering, vote seeking politicians that disgust me....




SB



Same goes for the Caucasian inmates who scream blue bloody murder if they are excluded from the Native Sons program (aimed at aboriginal inmates" on the grounds that they have converted or wish to convert......


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## geo (10 Oct 2005)

Freddy Chef said:
			
		

> [Reiterating; what rights do prisoners have? And the issue of an insignia relating to an ancient grudge, is it reasonable grounds to complain? The Swastika is the only exception of an offensive insignia, since it was associated with genocide.]



Bad news for ya Freddychef......... the swastika that uncle Adolph made so "popular" is an ancient budhist symbol.... that should merit respect - not scorn.... 

Go figure!


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## paracowboy (10 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Bad news for ya Freddychef......... the swastika that uncle Adolph made so "popular" is an ancient budhist symbol.... that should merit respect - not scorn....
> 
> Go figure!


it's also in use in the Hindu culture, meaning the same thing as found in Buddhism, and was widely known in North America amongst the various Indian tribes from the Aztecs to the Haida. 

- li'l UFI for ya's, there


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## George Wallace (10 Oct 2005)

Actually, the swastika, or its' inverse, is found in various cultures around the world.   It is found in ancient North American sites, Norse sites, Budhist sites, and many more.   It is a simple design that is found in quite a few places.   You'll find it in textiles, in building adornments, and in various religious texts and illustrations.   It all depends on who and how it is being used that can be offensive.

Much the same can be said of Canadian Jump Wings.   I am not offended when I see a Canadian Soldier wearing them, but a snot nosed long haired civie (with no military experience) wearing them in downtown St Catherines Street does offend me.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Oct 2005)

Therefore, just with George's statement above, I could write an "article" with the caption " Canadian Jump Wings Offends Retired Soldiers"  and proceed with a lot of filler kife and once again we could waste 4 pages of internet space with our reactions to nothing.


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## Glorified Ape (13 Oct 2005)

The whole PC movement pisses me off as well. If we removed everything that could possibly offend someone's culture, religion, heritage, race, etc. we'd have little left. That being said, lets not generalize about the entire constituency of Islam here. There are many many muslims out there who go about their daily lives making no complaints beyond what any of us might complain about (taxes, etc). 

My buddy's a Ugandan muslim and he doesn't bitch about Canadian society or Western culture. He's quite grateful to Canada for helping him study here and he's on his way to becoming a citizen. He's started an NGO to send volunteer missions to Uganda to do community improvement projects and he founded a student organization at the university to bring people together to think of ways to improve international development. If anyone speaks broadly of "muslims this" and "muslims that" they're referring to him, too, and that's just willful ignorance. 

It's not all muslims that complain about stupid crap like this. As someone said - "the squeaky wheel gets the oil". There's no shortage of interest groups out there, from all walks of life, complaining about stupid crap and getting their way on the most ridiculous tripe solely because of the PC revolution and over-accomodation of special interests. 



			
				Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> radio, where over 95% of people polled (nationally) wanted a direct end to muslim immigration to Australia.



Wow... A direct end to muslim immigration? So everyone but muslims would be allowed to immigrate to Australia? What an admirable public sentiment. Assuming you're characterizing the poll correctly, I'm instilled with a newfound respect for those 95%. Romper Stomper, all the way! I guess Hando must be a pretty popular guy down there. Maybe Canada should do the same with black people, given the problems there've been in Toronto recently. No more blacks allowed into Canada, no sir. Maybe mass deportation should be a follow-up policy. Then maybe a pogrom or two to weed out those pesky stragglers. 



			
				Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> What does not offend the muslims these days  :crybaby: ? If they are so in love with their way of life I am sure many infidels out there will give them a one-way ticket back to their own troubled ******* land from whence they came.
> 
> Wes



What land would that be? Africa? Asia? North America? Central America? South America? Europe? Oceania? If "infidels" sent them back from whence they came, you'd still have muslims in every place, given that they come from all over the world. It's not like they all spawned in the heart of Saudi Arabia and then had some diaspora a few years ago. I never considered Canada a "troubled f------ land". I wonder if you'd be as receptive to an Aborigine traditionalist with the same opinion of you, seeing as how your way of life likely conflicts with his and, well, he was there first. 

As for the "peaceful religion" crack - I trust you're not up on the myriad of depraved acts many Christians have been so fond of committing and have no problem, resultant thereof, holding the entire religion in the same regard as you do Islam.


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## 1feral1 (13 Oct 2005)

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> As for the "peaceful religion" crack - I trust you're not up on the myriad of depraved acts many Christians have been so fond of committing and have no problem, resultant thereof, holding the entire religion in the same regard as you do Islam.



I am not even going to bother waisting my time responding to the rest, as it seems to be you are sparring for some kind of a fight, and branding me some kind of a fantasiser who does not have a clue about 'reality' as you see it, but maybe your attitude will/might change when your own countrymen are MURDERED in COLD blood by the dozen (not soldiers but civilians, including women and children) at the hands of gutless suicide bombers, or when a muslim elected council member trys to ban pork products in your own suburb, or wants to have public pools open to only muslim women, banning all others, including any other women, or your girl friend is spat at for western dress or when a muslim political party tries to halt ant-terrorism laws (thats the latest whats going on here).

In previous posts I have said many Australian muslims are just normal hard working people here who go about their business as we do, but sadly, many are also not, and the meanstreamers do not condem the radicals (only the politcal based idiots like KyserTraid) try play the game to attempt to appease the non-muslims. we can see right thru this guy.

Many Australian based muslim clerics here are publically saying its 'alright to have Australian aquantances, but not Australian friends', and that one day 'Australia will be an islamic state'. Also saying that 'Australia is an islamic country because Indonesian fisherman were here long before the Dutch'! Its shyte like this which goes on here every day, and comparing a Russell Crowe neo-Nazi MOVIE to reality, and refering Australians as Nazis is quite frankly downright offensive, and SHAME on you for even suggesting such!   When in fact many Aussies are quite fearful of islam, and the loss of our own identity, culture and way of life, plus the reality of terroist style of warfare hitting our shores, and yt again killing Australians. Even our Prime Minister has said attacks are likely. ASIO has prevented several attacks already, and the threat here is very REAL.

Australia is NOT Canada ( I have lived here for almost 11 yrs), and or North America.The culture is different, yet similar in some ways. We are a small country of what the population was in Canada 35 yrs ago (19,000,000), yet the size roughly of the USA (a little smaller), and we are in a troubled region already with radical islam rampant throughout the Australasian region (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines, Borneo, etc - they have serious problems with radical islam - and its getting worse, not better), and its the largest growing religion amoung Aboriginies here in Australia. Radical islam is alive and well in Australia, and especiallyin western Sydney. The IYM, and others are operating, but in much more expression. Muslim bookhops in western Sydney recently were raided by police for selling  'how to be a suicide bomber' books which even covered how to contrct a bomb. They sold heaps of these books (in arabic) locally! In our train stations, there is no rubbish bins, warning signs posted on unaccompanied bags and packs. Our TV and news paper/magazine adds are swamped with anti-terror adds, and we have hotlines and websites to report any suspicious activity.

Now, what about the ABC TV crew beaten by mobs of muslim in a frenzy of attacks when filming in a muslim neighbourhood (western Sydney ghetto of Lakemba), or the islamic gangs (western Sydney based) who prey on Aussie girls and rape them because they consider them sluts. FACT! Some are doing time with sentances each of over 50 yrs, but many are still on the loose. There is a growing problem here, and it will get worse. Muslim clerics from Indonesia have also said that one day Australia will be a islamic state.

I, as many have lived the 'reverse discrimination' personally too many times to count, felt the hatred in the stares, and seen our western culture dwindle because of these, as you put it by the 'squeaky wheels'. You're way off mark in your comments. I can't speak for the larger centres in Canada, and how things are going there, but I bloody well know whats going on here!

Well, Mr 23U, unless you have walked in the streets of the western suburbs of Sydney's ethnic ghettos (Greenacre, Liverpool, Punchbowl, Lakemba, Wiley Park, Yagoona, the list goes on) here (your accent would get the shyte licked out of you because you'd be taken for The Great Satan, and if you said 'wait I'm Cdn', they'd say 'USA, Canada both the same') and experienced this first hand, you can take your left winged views and shove 'em. Life expereince in the real world always overcomes textbooks in a classroom. Sydney has a big problem with the growing ethnic hatred and rising ethnic crime, and its organised , and sadly, most of it is muslim generated (not by Aussie converts either, but by migrants and offspring from the middle east), but not by the older ones, but the younger generation, and the older ones sit back and do nothing.

I knew an muslim CPL (I am NOT saying all have this attitude) from a Sydney Unit, first name Chadi (age mid-late 20s), he told me those Aussie girls were nothing but sluts, and deserved to be raped (The girls were pack raped, literally staked down in a park, with their legs spread and a Glock 9mm held to their heads as 14 males (not men) had their sick and twisted way with them. Later these girls were hosed off with a fire hose to destroy any cowardly DNA).

No one EVER deserves that mate! EVER!!! After GWII started, he discharged after an altercation with other members, he played the race card saying he was victimised for being a muslim. In fact any attention he drew on himself was saying that rape cooment infront of a 'hard corps' WO2!. he was discharged after AWOLing himself.

Don't go comparing Christian acts of centuries ago with what current terrorists are doing right now in the 21st century! Anthing else is a cop out. 


Wes


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## Steel Badger (13 Oct 2005)

Bruce can write?




(Aww Mr Monkhouse...why do I have to write all your reports AGAIN?)




lol




Dave


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## geo (13 Oct 2005)

all good points Wes,

one thing that is interesting is that most muslims immigrating into the country are more than happy to integrate into the country they are setting up house in....
what the brits found out is that the next generation are the ones most inclined to look back at their country, look at their "roots" and turn to islam....

Not a good recipe


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## 1feral1 (13 Oct 2005)

13th century mentality with 21 century technology aint no good recipe either.

I think we are in for a bumpy ride mate.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Glorified Ape (14 Oct 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> I am not even going to bother waisting my time responding to the rest, as it seems to be you are sparring for some kind of a fight, and branding me some kind of a fantasiser who does not have a clue about 'reality' as you see it, but maybe your attitude will/might change when your own countrymen are MURDERED in COLD blood by the dozen (not soldiers but civilians, including women and children) at the hands of gutless suicide bombers, or when a muslim elected council member trys to ban pork products in your own suburb, or wants to have public pools open to only muslim women, banning all others, including any other women, or your girl friend is spat at for western dress or when a muslim political party tries to halt ant-terrorism laws (thats the latest whats going on here).



If I allowed ignorant acts by some muslims to cause me to make broad statements about the entire religion's constituency, I'd be no better than they are. I'm not trying to start a "fight", I'm disagreeing with your statements. If I was trying to start a fight, I'd be calling you idiotic names. 



> In previous posts I have said many Australian muslims are just normal hard working people here who go about their business as we do, but sadly, many are also not, and the meanstreamers do not condem the radicals (only the politcal based idiots like KyserTraid) try play the game to attempt to appease the non-muslims. we can see right thru this guy.



I'm not criticizing previous posts, I'm criticizing your "what don't muslims cry about these days?" statement and seeming support for a blatantly bigoted immigration policy. Banning muslim immigration to the country likely wouldn't achieve much more than to incite the resident muslim population (as well as the world's) to even more extreme positions. That's to say nothing of the ethical depravity of such a policy. 



> Many Australian based muslim clerics here are publically saying its 'alright to have Australian aquantances, but not Australian friends', and that one day 'Australia will be an islamic state'.



That's unfortunate and extremely ignorant. I don't think it justifies generalizations about the entirety of Islam or even the entirety of Australian muslims. 



> Also saying that 'Australia is an islamic country because Indonesian fisherman were here long before the Dutch'! Its shyte like this which goes on here every day, and comparing a Russell Crowe neo-Nazi MOVIE to reality, and refering Australians as Nazis is quite frankly downright offensive, and SHAME on you for even suggesting such!



Well, sorry if it's offensive but bigoted immigration laws and sweeping generalizations about an entire religious group are characteristic of skinhead politics. I couldn't help but recall the "this...isn't....your....country" line, although you're right about the comparison being off a bit - the skins in the movie were focused on Asians, they didn't appear to care about their religion.

  





> When in fact many Aussies are quite fearful of islam, and the loss of our own identity, culture and way of life, plus the reality of terroist style of warfare hitting our shores, and yt again killing Australians. Even our Prime Minister has said attacks are likely. ASIO has prevented several attacks already, and the threat here is very REAL.



I have no doubt and I hope ASIO continues to prevent such attacks. 



> Australia is NOT Canada ( I have lived here for almost 11 yrs), and or North America.The culture is different, yet similar in some ways. We are a small country of what the population was in Canada 35 yrs ago (19,000,000), yet the size roughly of the USA (a little smaller), and we are in a troubled region already with radical islam rampant throughout the Australasian region (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines, Borneo, etc - they have serious problems with radical islam - and its getting worse, not better), and its the largest growing religion amoung Aboriginies here in Australia. Radical islam is alive and well in Australia, and especiallyin western Sydney. The IYM, and others are operating, but in much more expression. Muslim bookhops in western Sydney recently were raided by police for selling   'how to be a suicide bomber' books which even covered how to contrct a bomb. They sold heaps of these books (in arabic) locally! In our train stations, there is no rubbish bins, warning signs posted on unaccompanied bags and packs. Our TV and news paper/magazine adds are swamped with anti-terror adds, and we have hotlines and websites to report any suspicious activity.



And you feel that banning muslim immigration will stop this?



> Now, what about the ABC TV crew beaten by mobs of muslim in a frenzy of attacks when filming in a muslim neighbourhood (western Sydney ghetto of Lakemba), or the islamic gangs (western Sydney based) who prey on Aussie girls and rape them because they consider them sluts. FACT! Some are doing time with sentances each of over 50 yrs, but many are still on the loose. There is a growing problem here, and it will get worse. Muslim clerics from Indonesia have also said that one day Australia will be a islamic state.



I can believe all of it, what I can't understand is how barring muslims from immigrating is going to solve the problem. 



> I, as many have lived the 'reverse discrimination' personally too many times to count, felt the hatred in the stares, and seen our western culture dwindle because of these, as you put it by the 'squeaky wheels'. You're way off mark in your comments. I can't speak for the larger centres in Canada, and how things are going there, but I bloody well know whats going on here!



We haven't had the same problems, to my knowledge, that you're talking about. Which comments was I way off the mark on? About muslims coming from everywhere? About banning muslim immigration being a bigoted, discriminatory policy that's unlikely to do much good?



> Well, Mr 23U, unless you have walked in the streets of the western suburbs of Sydney's ethnic ghettos (Greenacre, Liverpool, Punchbowl, Lakemba, Wiley Park, Yagoona, the list goes on) here (your accent would get the shyte licked out of you because you'd be taken for The Great Satan, and if you said 'wait I'm Cdn', they'd say 'USA, Canada both the same') and experienced this first hand, you can take your left winged views and shove 'em.



I don't think abhorring inaccurate generalizations and despising religiously discriminatory immigration policy is particularly left-winged. Nor do I think walking through ghettos would drive me to a position where I'd accept such things. Walking through Harlem and getting my *** kicked wouldn't drive me to hate black people or advocate their exclusion from immigration. If it did, I'd be quite the knee-jerk reactionary. 



> Life expereince in the real world always overcomes textbooks in a classroom.



I'm sure. I'm also sure that "real world" experience doesn't justify bigotry. 



> Sydney has a big problem with the growing ethnic hatred and rising ethnic crime, and its organised , and sadly, most of it is muslim generated (not by Aussie converts either, but by migrants and offspring from the middle east), but not by the older ones, but the younger generation, and the older ones sit back and do nothing.



So what do you suggest be done?



> I knew an muslim CPL (I am NOT saying all have this attitude) from a Sydney Unit, first name Chadi (age mid-late 20s), he told me those Aussie girls were nothing but sluts, and deserved to be raped (The girls were pack raped, literally staked down in a park, with their legs spread and a Glock 9mm held to their heads as 14 males (not men) had their sick and twisted way with them. Later these girls were hosed off with a fire hose to destroy any cowardly DNA).
> 
> No one EVER deserves that mate! EVER!!! After GWII started, he discharged after an altercation with other members, he played the race card saying he was victimised for being a muslim. In fact any attention he drew on himself was saying that rape comment infront of a 'hard corps' WO2!. he was discharged after AWOLing himself.



Sounds like a real idiot who deserved much worse than he got. All of this stuff you're listing off, though, is anecdotal. Is it symptomatic of a larger problem? I'm sure it is. But you can't allow idiots like that to determine your opinion of Islam or muslims in general. 



> Don't go comparing Christian acts of centuries ago with what current terrorists are doing right now in the 21st century! Anthing else is a cop out.



Centuries ago? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm

How about all the atrocities committed by Christians in the Balkans? 

Why is it that whenever you refer to Christian violence, people always harken back to the Crusades? The Holocaust was carried out primarily by Christians but we don't label Christianity a "violent" religion because of it. As the link will testify to, the Christians found no shortage of excuses to slaughter muslims (and vice-versa) during the Lebanese Civil War. No shortage of Christians slaughtering people in the Balkans either. Christian violence didn't stop with the Crusades.   Where Jews are concerned, it's not Muslims that have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of persecution and slaughter throughout history, it's Christians. Again, that's not to say Christianity is a vile or evil/violent religion because of it or that Christians are all rampaging religious zealots. 

Everyone's guilty, everyone's done their share of hateful, ignorant crap. Christians are no better than Muslims and vice-versa. If all this terrorism tripe was being carried out by Christians, would you blame Christianity and advocate the banning of Christian immigration?


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## 1feral1 (14 Oct 2005)

Go ahead and call me a biggot for stating facts and truths (I am far from it actually). I don't really care what you think anyways. Aside from a few good sentances in your response which I whole heartedly agree, the main body of your response was excatly as I thought it would be. Left and limp wristed. Ever consider a carreer in politics?

I guess we can agree to disagree, and I hope that Canada never has to endure what we have in Bali, and the near misses on ouur own shores.

I believe in ONE country all treated equa no matter if you are rich or poor, or born there or not. When you immigrate to a country, do as the Romans do, adopt the culture with open arms and enjoy life, although NEVER forgetting where you come from. I'll never forget those wheatfields of Saskatchewan! I opened up to Australia embracing everything it had to offer, and I fell in love with this place, and would stand my ground any time for it. 

You never hear of the Irish community, Scottish community, the USA community or Cdn community or Christian community, or RC community, here, why the the muslim community, and others similar (the Palestinian community etc). One thing. Are you an Australian, or a citizen of another country living in Australia? I dont give a shyte what colour you are, what religion you are or any of that crap, just tow the line, obey the laws ( no honour killings sharia law etc), speak english, and have some loyality to your new country. Your new country - Love it leave as far as I am concerned. If you don't like it, or publically promote hatred or terrorism  GO HOME WE DONT WANT YOU HERE!

Former Labour Party Prime Minister Paul Keating was quoted a few yr back commenting on mulitculturalism in Australia. He said all we have created is just a nation of tribes, and thats exactly what it has become. Large cities have segregated ethnic ghettos. Is that a harsh name? Well thats exactly what they are!

Wes


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Oct 2005)

I'm seeing a lot of condesending and goading posts here, and I think it's turned into a pissing match. So............time out, cool off, and remind me to open it in a week or so to continue.


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