# Malaysia Airliner Disappearance



## CougarKing (8 Mar 2014)

A sinister development...

Perhaps terrorist suicide bombers (from a Malaysian Islamic group such as KMM? Or from a southern Thai Islamic separatist group called PULO?) were the ones who stole the passports?

Canadian Press link



> *Stolen Italian, Austrian passports on missing Malaysian airlines plane*
> The Canadian Press
> 
> By Colleen Barry
> ...



Plus an update on the search so far:

Wreckage nearby?

Canadian Press link



> *Vietnamese planes spot 2 oil slicks close to where Malaysian jetliner vanished*
> The Canadian Press
> 
> KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia - *Vietnamese air force planes on Saturday spotted two large oil slicks in the area where a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 vanished earlier in the day, the first sign that the aircraft carrying 239 people — including two Canadians — on board had crashed.*
> ...


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## Robert0288 (8 Mar 2014)

WAY too early to tell if there was any malicious act.  There is also a lot of smuggling, both human and drug, which is much more likely.


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Mar 2014)

And also no claim from any terrorist organization......


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Mar 2014)

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> WAY too early to tell if there was any malicious act.  There is also a lot of smuggling, both human and drug, which is much more likely.



Not trying to be smart or get in a pissing match. However, I'm wondering what insight you have that makes you fairly certain it was smuggling, human, drugs, or otherwise and why you think that.

Is dissecting this stuff part of your job or are you just taking a WAG (wild assed guess)?


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## The_Falcon (8 Mar 2014)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> And also no claim from any terrorist organization......



Yet


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Mar 2014)

True.....


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## tomahawk6 (8 Mar 2014)

What emergency can happen in flight where the crew is unable to issue a distress call ? I suspect foul play. This reminds me of Lockerbie.In that case debris hit the ground.If the bomb had gone off later in the flight while it was over the Atlantic,who knows if the cause would have been solved.


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## OldSolduer (9 Mar 2014)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> What emergency can happen in flight where the crew is unable to issue a distress call ? I suspect foul play. This reminds me of Lockerbie.In that case debris hit the ground.If the bomb had gone off later in the flight while it was over the Atlantic,who knows if the cause would have been solved.


I will admit I am no expert here, but having seen enough news reports and TV documentaries about aircraft incidents I would hazard to say a catastrophic failure, which is obvious I would think. What caused it? I am not sure anyone will know.


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## Old Sweat (9 Mar 2014)

There are multiple reports, including one of a statement by a senior Malaysian air force officer, that radar indicates that the aircraft had turned and appeared to be returning.

The absence of a debris field is unusual.


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## vonGarvin (9 Mar 2014)

And here's a link on that:




> Military radar indicates that the missing Boeing 777 jet may have turned back before vanishing, Malaysia's air force chief said Sunday as authorities were investigating up to four passengers with suspicious identifications.


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## tomahawk6 (9 Mar 2014)

Australia is providing 2 P3C Orions based at Darwin to assist in the search effort.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/australia-sending-two-p3c-orions-from-darwin-to-malaysia-to-aid-with-the-search-for-missing-malaysian-flight-mh370/story-fnizu68q-1226849663966

The USN has dispatched a DDG and a P3 Orion to assist the search.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-navy-sends-destroyer-plane-search-22832565


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## Robert0288 (9 Mar 2014)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Not trying to be smart or get in a pissing match. However, I'm wondering what insight you have that makes you fairly certain it was smuggling, human, drugs, or otherwise and why you think that.
> 
> Is dissecting this stuff part of your job or are you just taking a WAG (wild assed guess)?



I'm not "fairly certain", however it is much more likely and reasonable explanation that it wasn't as there are many more cases stolen and misused passports coming out of Asia then are generally reported and most linked to human and drug smuggling.  From everything I've seen so far, there hasn't been any of your normal indicators of it being an attack.  Could it?  Sure.  And if it does turn out to be the case, I'm willing to eat my words.

The pair traveling on the stolen passports had further flights booked from Beijing on a KLM flight to Amsterdam, at which point one was supposed to go to Copenhagen on 8 mar, and the other to Frankfurt on the same day.

Can any SAR experienced guys weigh in on what kind of fault(s) would knock out the Emergency Locator Beacon(s)?  Also taking a look at some depth charts of the waters where it supposedly went down, it doesn't seem all that deep compared to other oceans.  Again, I'm not an expert, but aren't these things designed to be able to transmit from fairly deep water?


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## tomahawk6 (9 Mar 2014)

The big mystery is why there hasnt been any wreckage found.


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## Zoomie (9 Mar 2014)

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> Can any SAR experienced guys weigh in on what kind of fault(s) would knock out the Emergency Locator Beacon(s)?  A


Two very separate systems aid searchers in finding downed aircraft.  ELT is good for crashes on the ground - ULB is what ultimately led to the discovery of the Air France wreck over the south Atlantic.  Underwater Locator Beacons are usually salt water activated and are co-located with the aircraft's data recorders (aka black box).  You would need to have someone listening for the sonar pings of an ULB (can only assume that they are doing this).

An ELT won't go off unless there is a semi-survivable crash - if the plane blows up in flight, no ELT activation.  If the plane landed somewhere sinister (ie highjacked), the ELT won't go off.  If the crew was somehow overpowered and forced to go somewhere, a smart villain would have the Mode 3C transponder turned off - thus removing the aircraft symbology from RADAR.

Anyone watch LOST?  I've been catching all the episodes again on Netflix - sounds very similar.


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## Robert0288 (9 Mar 2014)

I would think kicking over the squawk codes to 7000/7500/7600/7700 should be pretty quick.  (But I'm not a pilot)


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## Nfld Sapper (9 Mar 2014)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The big mystery is why there hasnt been any wreckage found.



Agreed T6, something doesn't seem right either way.....


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## Jarnhamar (9 Mar 2014)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Agreed T6, something doesn't seem right either way.....



Like a fake oil spill to misdirect searchers.


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## Nfld Sapper (9 Mar 2014)

:dunno:


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## tomahawk6 (9 Mar 2014)

Some debris has been located near the fuel slick.Its too dark and will have to wait until morning.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26506961


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Mar 2014)

things get shredded pretty good when a plane nose dives at high speed into the water. I don't see the "win" here for destroying a Malaysian Airlines plane for any of the typical groups. If it was a Chinese connected group, why not take on one of the Chinese planes flying out of KL?


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## AJFitzpatrick (9 Mar 2014)

I'm not going to pretend to be an  expert but having watched just about every episode of Mayday, sudden catastrophic failures are possible. They all seem to be generally related to an underlying progressive failure that goes undetected due to poor maintenance/repair/inspection practices and with older aircraft

Hard to believe though this would be the case for a 777 though 

However the Daily Mail says the missing plane had a ground collision 2 years ago ....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576353/Malaysian-Airlines-Boeing-777-centre-crash-probe-collided-plane-two-years-ago-breaking-wingtip.html


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## tomahawk6 (11 Mar 2014)

Crowdsourcing the search for MH370.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014?source=abc


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## cupper (11 Mar 2014)

Latest word today is that Malaysian military radar had tracked the flight some 700 miles west of it's intended course, towards or over the Strait of Malacca. 

Update: Apparently the Malaysian Air Force is disputing this claim now.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-not-tracked-to-malacca-air-force-1.2567697


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Mar 2014)

My Malaysian wife thinks that Malaysian incompetence happened both in the air and by the people tracking aircraft and now the government is running in circles to try to cover that incompetence up. She says that pictures of the pilots with blonds in the cockpit during flights and landings are floating around the net.


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## PMedMoe (12 Mar 2014)

Colin P said:
			
		

> My Malaysian wife thinks that Malaysian incompetence happened both in the air and by the people tracking aircraft and now the government is running in circles to try to cover that incompetence up. She says that pictures of the pilots with blonds in the cockpit during flights and landings are floating around the net.



From a news article (emphasis mine):



> An Australian TV station reported that the first officer on the missing plane, Fariq Abdul Hamid, had invited two women into the cockpit during a flight *two years ago*.


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## tomahawk6 (12 Mar 2014)

The FAA has sent experts to help with the radar tracks.If it was terrorism they sure picked the right country. :


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## Old Sweat (12 Mar 2014)

I'm watching CNN which is broadcasting a Chinese satellite image from Sunday showing large objects in the water along the flight track.


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## Edward Campbell (13 Mar 2014)

There is now a report that "Interpol and Malaysian officials are looking at a 35 year-old Uighur passenger on missing flight MH370. The suspect passenger had previously taken flight simulation training in 2006. The man has a PHD from a university in Britain and is an assistant professor in the Department of Electrical and Electronics Engineering, at a Turkish university ... Ethnic Muslim Uighurs from western China have been responsible for several terror attacks in China. Earlier this month the Uighurs, who make up 45 percent of the population of Xinjiang, were blamed for a violent attack at a Chinese train station."


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## AirDet (13 Mar 2014)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The big mystery is why there hasnt been any wreckage found.


I know this may sound implausible but what if the airliner were flown to Somalia? There would be no wreckage. The 777 does have the range. Somalia has little to no government to speak of. The pirates have stolen ships right out of major ports before. 

Airliners don't just disappear without a trace these days. There's been no ELT and no Ditching beacon. There are tonnes of resources combing that area yet they have nothing. Whenever you rule out the probable the remaining implausible is most likely.


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## Nemo888 (13 Mar 2014)

No one wants to say terrorist attack. People panic and lose their minds. 300 million dollar jetliners with 400 passengers don't "disappear".  A plane hitting something at 400 mph doesn't leave a hell of a lot.


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## AirDet (13 Mar 2014)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> No one wants to say terrorist attack. People panic and lose their minds. 300 million dollar jetliners with 400 passengers don't "disappear".  A plane hitting something at 400 mph doesn't leave a hell of a lot.



Actually, a jet hitting the water does make a huge mess. The debris field would usually consist of seat cushions, PFDs, personal items, bodies, structural components (especially with modern materials). When an airliner hits the water at a high rate of speed it literal explodes.

Unless you believe in aliens the only two options left are that the jet flew well beyond the current search area or it landed somewhere. There is some evidence that the engines transmitted their sensor data for another 4 hours beyond the time they lost radar contact.

The plot thickens....


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## George Wallace (13 Mar 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> ....... There is some evidence that the engines transmitted their sensor data for another 4 hours beyond the time they lost radar contact.
> 
> The plot thickens....



Some reports that this is a fact.  Some reports saying it is not so.


Whatever.  What is the range of the aircraft within a 4 hour window, flying at a low altitude "in the grass"?


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## AirDet (13 Mar 2014)

4 hours at 480 Knots. That would make it 2200 miles.

I was just reading a few other reports that it's now looking like the aircraft systems continued to report for up to 5 hours. Not once did they report a system failure which is exactly what you would expect in a crash.

There's definitely something else going on here. It'll be interesting when they finally solve this mystery.


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## daftandbarmy (14 Mar 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> Actually, a jet hitting the water does make a huge mess. The debris field would usually consist of seat cushions, PFDs, personal items, bodies, structural components (especially with modern materials). When an airliner hits the water at a high rate of speed it literal explodes.
> 
> Unless you believe in aliens the only two options left are that the jet flew well beyond the current search area or it landed somewhere. There is some evidence that the engines transmitted their sensor data for another 4 hours beyond the time they lost radar contact.
> 
> The plot thickens....



Thanks. I'm driving from now on


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## OldSolduer (14 Mar 2014)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Thanks. I'm driving from now on



Conspiracy  theorists will have a field day with this so here is mine:

The Russians took it to divert attention away from Crimea.

Pass the tin foil please.


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## Nfld Sapper (14 Mar 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Conspiracy  theorists will have a field day with this so here is mine:
> 
> The Russians took it to divert attention away from Crimea.
> 
> Pass the tin foil please.


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## RedcapCrusader (14 Mar 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> Actually, a jet hitting the water does make a huge mess. The debris field would usually consist of seat cushions, PFDs, personal items, bodies, structural components (especially with modern materials). When an airliner hits the water at a high rate of speed it literal explodes.
> 
> Unless you believe in aliens the only two options left are that the jet flew well beyond the current search area or it landed somewhere. There is some evidence that the engines transmitted their sensor data for another 4 hours beyond the time they lost radar contact.
> 
> The plot thickens....



Hell, the surface tension of water is like concrete even when you dive in off the 10m platform a little wonky.

My theory is that they know where the plane is, but are having to make negotiations and payments before they'll admit they fudged the entire search and rescue mission and tell the real story.


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## Kat Stevens (14 Mar 2014)

I say North Korean stealth jets forced it below the radar, and it's sitting under cam nets on some abandoned airfield in NK.  Hey, as good a theory as any, remember if you don't hear a good rumour before noon, start one.


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## OldSolduer (14 Mar 2014)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I say North Korean stealth jets forced it below the radar, and it's sitting under cam nets on some abandoned airfield in NK.  Hey, as good a theory as any, remember if you don't hear a good rumour before noon, start one.


It was them ruskkies I tell ya!

Good one though!


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## jollyjacktar (14 Mar 2014)

In keeping with the " it was jacked and landed "somewhere"" train of thought...  link will take you to story on Daily Mail website.

US says missing Malaysian jet could be 'act of PIRACY': Did 777 secretly land after being flown for hours with plane's locators deliberately turned off?


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## daftandbarmy (14 Mar 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> It was them ruskkies I tell ya!
> 
> Good one though!



No, no, no.... the plane was hijacked by the CIA to Diego Garcia where it is being reconfigured to launch a chemtrail offensive on freedom loving gun owners south of the Mason-Dixon line as part of the New World Order depopulation agenda.

If you don't believe me, just go outside and look up in the sky:


Most people discover the reality of chemtrails by initially reading about it on the Internet and then going outside and looking up into the sky. They are shocked to realize that what they had been reading about (and studying photographs of) is also taking place right over their heads. What some people had dismissed as mere "jet plane exhaust" (because there are now scores of internet propaganda web sites trying to convince you that 'everything is well' and 'there's nothing to be alarmed about' and that unaccountable 'jet plane exhaust'  plumes are magically being converted into horizon-to-horizon overcasts of "cirrus clouds" !) are dismayed to realize that chemtrails are indeed the toxin-laden aerosols that have been described here and at other web sites since 1998 and they are not being sprayed for any benign or national security reason as the disinformation peddlers would have you believe. Nothing brings home the comprehension of the New World Order depopulation agenda than the realization that you and your family are also on the "useless eaters" (Henry Kissinger) elimination list. 

http://educate-yourself.org/ct/


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## AirDet (14 Mar 2014)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I say North Korean stealth jets forced it below the radar, and it's sitting under cam nets on some abandoned airfield in NK.  Hey, as good a theory as any,


That's another possibility. Something is definitely not kosher here.



> remember if you don't hear a good rumour before noon, start one.


Have we sailed together?  :nod: That was the unofficial motto of HMCS Vancouver.


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## AirDet (14 Mar 2014)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> No, no, no.... the plane was hijacked by the CIA to Diego Garcia where it is being reconfigured to launch a chemtrail offensive on freedom loving gun owners south of the Mason-Dixon line as part of the New World Order depopulation agenda.....



And there we have it. The conspiracy freaks are on it now.

Those "chemtrails" as you call them are an anti-icing additive called 100ad. It allows jets to fly higher; nothing else. Get over it!


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## YZT580 (14 Mar 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> And there we have it. The conspiracy freaks are on it now.
> 
> Those "chemtrails" as you call them are an anti-icing additive called 100ad. It allows jets to fly higher; nothing else. Get over it!


Not true.  they are indeed additives but they are placed in so airlines can earn extra income through skywriting.


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## a_majoor (14 Mar 2014)

Having to take an airline trip and listening to the 24 hr news cycle at the airport on this was pretty unnerving (and I have taken enough flights over the years to think of flying as transit rather than an adventure, especially if flying Air Canada).

Some informed speculation in the National Post and Globe and Mail, suggesting that the passengers and crew may have blacked out quickly if the plane depressurized for any reason (continuing to fly until it ran out of fuel), or perhaps suffered a catastrophic failure in flight, essentially disintegrating high in the air, hence not leaving a debris field in the ocean since the pieces would be scattered so far.

The only thing that seems certain is the plane did not go down near its projected flight path. I'm pretty sure the answer, when it comes, will be far more surprising than we have probably guessed so far.


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## Robert0288 (15 Mar 2014)

> *Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 hijacked, official claims*
> Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-hijacked-official-claims-1.2573080
> 
> _Investigators have concluded that one or more people with significant flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, switched off communication devices and steered it off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said Saturday.
> ...


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## OldSolduer (15 Mar 2014)

The Tin Foil Hat gang - mainly me, in fact only me, still says it's Russian plot hatched by Uncle Vladimir to avert our attention for the Crimea.

In Russia you no hijack plane, plane hijack you? :Tin-Foil-Hat: :Tin-Foil-Hat:


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## a_majoor (15 Mar 2014)

More hints that something very strange has happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/jet-was-hijacked-malaysian-official-tells-ap/2014/03/15/ec7397d6-abff-11e3-af5f-4c56b834c4bf_story.html



> *Missing airliner may have flown on for 7 hours*
> 
> By Chico Harlan, Ashley Halsey III and Annie Gowen,    Updated: Saturday, March 15, 7:55 AM E-mail the writers
> 
> ...


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## Haggis (15 Mar 2014)

So, now, the revived question is who hijacked it and why? 

I find it hard to believe that hijackers sophisticated enough to breach security on the ground, breach the cockpit, disable/subdue the crew and passengers (was there an Air Marshal on board?) shut down the communications systems and evade both civilian and military surveillance systems would simply crash the aircraft, either by design or accident.  Someone has it, somewhere, for a yet to be stated purpose.


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## Humphrey Bogart (15 Mar 2014)

It's not inconceivable to imagine a plane being hijacked and then hidden from public view.  Look at it's potential flight range, look at all the countries around that area that have some sort of internal security problem or are rogue states and you have a recipe where a plane could be seized and then flown to an airstrip and hidden in a hangar from view.  Load that plane up with explosives and you now have one gigantic bomb on your hands.

I just read the following in a Time Magazine article published a little over three hours ago:



> Satellite data confirms that the plane turned to fly in a westerly direction soon after reaching the South China Sea. Two “corridors” have been identified where the plane may have flown: a northern sector around the borders of Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and northern Thailand; and a southern sector stretching from Indonesia to the southern Indian Ocean. Search efforts will now be concentrated in these vast expanses.
> 
> The news resurrects the possibility that the aircraft might have landed safely. Captain Ross Aimer, an aviation consultant who was formerly an instructor for the 777, told TIME that a pilot with “considerable skill and experience” could land the aircraft in as little as 3,000 ft (900 m) of space. “It’s conceivable that if this was a calculated set-up they may have an old military field somewhere in the middle of some jungle,” he said. “You could even land it on a beach or small strip of land.”



Rest of the article is located here:

http://time.com/25999/missing-jet-highjacked-say-officials/


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## Bruce Monkhouse (15 Mar 2014)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Load that plane up with explosives and you now have one gigantic bomb on your hands.


That is exactly where my mind went.........


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## tomahawk6 (15 Mar 2014)

Authorities got around to searching the home of the pilot- today. 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/15/malaysia-airlines-search-heads-toward-indian-ocean/


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## Humphrey Bogart (15 Mar 2014)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Authorities got around to searching the home of the pilot- today.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/15/malaysia-airlines-search-heads-toward-indian-ocean/



We are only getting bits and pieces of the story as it's clearly become a national security issue.  We have a large plane that is missing and we have no clue where it is.  I believe there is far more to this story then we are being told  :Tin-Foil-Hat:


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## Haggis (15 Mar 2014)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> We are only getting bits and pieces of the story as it's clearly become a national security issue.  We have a large plane that is missing and we have no clue where it is.  I believe there is far more to this story then we are being told  :Tin-Foil-Hat:



The mystery has evolved to the point where we will likely never know all the details. People will simply draw their own conclusions which official sources will neither confirm or deny, citing "national security".  Stock prices for tinfoil will skyrocket.


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## a_majoor (17 Mar 2014)

More speculation on what may have happened:

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/03/16/malay-mystery/?singlepage=true



> *Malay Mystery*
> 
> One of our planes is missing. Here are four possible explanations.
> by
> ...


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## cupper (17 Mar 2014)

I've noticed a distinct lack of reporting about the one possibility that no one really wants to acknowledge.


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## OldSolduer (17 Mar 2014)

cupper said:
			
		

> I've noticed a distinct lack of reporting about the one possibility that no one really wants to acknowledge.



May I send you some of my tin foil?

I spoke with a friend of mine who is in the airline industry. He said he'd bet dollars to donuts it's at the bottom of the ocean.


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## cupper (18 Mar 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> May I send you some of my tin foil?
> 
> I spoke with a friend of mine who is in the airline industry. He said he'd bet dollars to donuts it's at the bottom of the ocean.



Thanks Jim. I'm full up.

I have to agree, that the plane is in the deepest depths of the Indian Ocean.

One question I have is how much more would it add to the cost of a commercial aircraft to add a transponder system located in an inaccessible section if the aircraft, with an independent power source (and / or backup) that would continually broadcast GPS location info via satellite to ground stations?

It would seem that this would be a relatively inexpensive solution to the problem we are seeing now, that it would not be that hard to make a plane disappear. Even for the event that if there was a catastrophic electrical failure that knocked out the main transponder systems along with the comms, this would at least give a tamperproof way of tracking the aircraft up to (or beyond) the point where the aircraft breaks up. Would make the search effort much easier.


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## dapaterson (18 Mar 2014)

Everything on an aircraft needs a breaker.  Because if something is shorting out you need to cut off power NOW, not several hours from now when you reach a place to land.

And electronic systems like transponders need a "reset" for when (not if) they go wonky.

Besides, transponders are next to useless when you're flying over an ocean; there's little to no radar coverage there, so it won't help.

I'd recommend going to Ask The Pilot and reading his take on this; lots of useful information to replace unfounded, uninformed speculation.


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## Journeyman (18 Mar 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> ..... lots of useful information to replace unfounded, uninformed speculation.


  You want to bring in......_*facts*_?!   rly:


Like Courtney Love's insights

National Post: Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 found by Courtney Love?  






     :stars:


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## Nemo888 (18 Mar 2014)

Now this was interesting. A landing gear tire fire filling the cockpit with smoke. The pilots become overwhelmed by smoke while pulling breakers trying to find the cause. No one can get into the locked cockpit, plane flies on auto till it crashes.  It may also explain the climb to 45,000.  If they find it directly on the last known flight path it is possible. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-plane-fire-2014-3


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## a_majoor (18 Mar 2014)

From Wired, some speculation that does not involve hijackers, UFO's or other strange events:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/



> *A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet*
> BY CHRIS GOODFELLOW03.18.146:30 AM
> 
> There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it’s almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.
> ...


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## observor 69 (19 Mar 2014)

This is the most credible scenario I have seen yet. Flight crew incapacitated by something along the lines of smoke in the cockpit. 
While attempting to deal with the situation the pilots unfortunately succumbed to smoke and the aircraft continued flying on autopilot until running out of fuel.


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## larry Strong (19 Mar 2014)

Baden Guy said:
			
		

> This is the most credible scenario I have seen yet. Flight crew incapacitated by something along the lines of smoke in the cockpit.
> While attempting to deal with the situation the pilots unfortunately succumbed to smoke and the aircraft continued flying on autopilot until running out of fuel.



I would have thought that donning an oxygen mask when smoke enters the cockpit would be an IA?




Larry


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## Occam (19 Mar 2014)

If that's the scenario that actually played out, they'll likely not get anything from the CVR except silence all the way to flameout (assuming the aircraft is found someday).  The time period of the events leading up to crew incapacitation would be overwritten.  Their clues would have to come from examination of the aircraft, revealing a fire.  I would imagine the FDR would record alarms, so there might be some data of use there.



			
				Larry Strong said:
			
		

> I would have thought that donning an oxygen mask when smoke enters the cockpit would be an IA?



That's what they did on Swissair 111.


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## cupper (19 Mar 2014)

There were a number of pundit / experts that were poo-pooing Goodfellow's theory for various different reasons ranging from the changes in wiring since the Swissair disaster not promoting flame spread, to it being just mere speculation.

The only good point I heard said yesterday was this (I'm paraphrasing): The only thing we know is that the aircraft has gone missing. It was last seen on civilian radar sometime shortly after the handover from Malaysian control to Vietnam Control. No distress signal was made. That is it.

There is also an excellent discussion on the media speculation frenzy on NPR today, complete with a debunking of the debunking of Goodfellow. It says a lot that CNN's ratings have soared since this has become front and center. I know from my own experience that you really cannot get away from coverage of this story if you tried. 

*In The Absence Of Answers, We Return Repeatedly To The Questions*

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291424805/in-the-absence-of-answers-we-return-repeatedly-to-the-questions



> The view from inside a media circus is an odd one, indeed.
> 
> But I got a glimpse of the scenery a few days ago, when CNN asked me to weigh in on the similarities between the real-life missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 and the myriad of fictional TV shows or movies where similar events have unfolded.
> 
> ...


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## AirDet (19 Mar 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Everything on an aircraft needs a breaker.  Because if something is shorting out you need to cut off power NOW, not several hours from now when you reach a place to land.



I've been a technician for 30 years on many different aircraft types. While I can't speak specifically to the B777 I can tell you I've never seen an aircraft where the pilot has access to every Circuit Breaker (CB).  There are some systems that the engineers didn't want pilots messing with. Recording and warning systems are often among those hidden from the MSE Ops (Air) aka pilots.

How this plays into all the information and misinformation around this mystery, I have no clue. One thing for sure is that this is starting to look like another Amelia Earhart mystery.


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## PMedMoe (20 Mar 2014)

Infographic on planes that have vanished since 1948.

Plus, graphic of where Flight 370 could be.


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## Rifleman62 (20 Mar 2014)

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/20/australian-pm-says-2-objects-in-search-for-malaysian-jet-may-have-been-found/

FOX News extract:



> A U.S. Navy spokesman told Fox News that a P-8 Poseidon aircraft returned to base in the western Australian city of Perth Thursday with “nothing to report” after flying a 10-hour search mission in the Indian Ocean. A statement on AMSA’s Twitter account said that the crew of a Royal Australian Air Force P-3 aircraft had also been unable to locate the debris due to limited visibility as a result of clouds and rain. The tweet added that other aircraft would continue the search later.



FOX News TV just reported that a P-8 Poseidon is currently on station flying at 300 feet.


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## tomahawk6 (22 Mar 2014)

A Chinese satellite may have found an object of interest.

http://www.cnn.com/


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## observor 69 (22 Mar 2014)

Article with lots of latest info:

Chinese Satellite Spots Object in Search Area for Missing Jetliner

By MICHAEL FORSYTHE and CHRIS BUCKLEYMARCH 22, 2014 

  SEPANG, Malaysia — A Chinese satellite has spotted an object in the southern Indian Ocean in an area that is the focus of a multinational effort to find the Malaysia Airlines airliner that disappeared on March 8, the Chinese authorities said Saturday.

The object is about is about 74 feet by 43 feet (22.5 meters by 13 meters), China’s State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense said on its website. It was spotted on Tuesday about 75 miles, or 120 kilometers, to the south and west of objects seen two days earlier by a commercial satellite. Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein of Malaysia told reporters that the Chinese “will be sending ships to verify.” The object is in the area of one of two possible routes that investigators say they think Flight 370 took.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/chinese-satellite-spots-object-in-search-for-missing-jetliner.html?hp


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## Colin Parkinson (22 Mar 2014)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Infographic on planes that have vanished since 1948.
> 
> Plus, graphic of where Flight 370 could be.



Apparently there are 70 missing aircraft just in BC. I recall reading that in a report somewhere.


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## Haggis (22 Mar 2014)

It's four hours flying time to the current search area under ideal conditions.  That means that search aircraft are only spending a couple of hours on station, in punishing conditions, before having to return to base.


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## observor 69 (22 Mar 2014)

These are some help with that problem.

A second ultralong range commercial jet, a Gulfstream G5, joined the search off Western Australia. The two commercial jets now hired to help look for the plane can spend more time at the search site than Australia’s military aircraft, the Australian Maritime Safety Authority said in an emailed statement Saturday.

“The ultralong range commercial jets have an endurance of approximately five hours of search time,” the authority said. The Royal Australian Air Force P-3 Orion aircraft can spend just two hours over the site before they must return to their onshore base, the authority has said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/chinese-satellite-spots-object-in-search-for-missing-jetliner.html?hp


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## AirDet (22 Mar 2014)

Does anyone know if 407 sent an aircraft? CTV just showed a video of the search and there were 2 Canadians wearing 407 Sqn patches and it was inside an Orion/Aurora.


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## Haggis (22 Mar 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if 407 sent an aircraft? CTV just showed a video of the search and there were 2 Canadians wearing 407 Sqn patches and it was inside an Orion/Aurora.



I saw that, too.  From the news clip, I believe they are on exchange with the RAAF.


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## Edward Campbell (24 Mar 2014)

Apparently it is now confirmed that the Australians have found and identified the wreckage in the South Indian ocean and the Malaysian PM is, now, speaking to the families of the victims telling them that all were lost in the crash.


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## Haggis (24 Mar 2014)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Apparently it is now confirmed that the Australians have found and identified the wreckage in the South Indian ocean and the Malaysian PM is, now, speaking to the families of the victims telling them that all were lost in the crash.



Despite the Malaysian PM's statement, the article later states “We don’t know whether any of these objects are from MH370. They could be flotsam. Nevertheless, we are hopeful that we can recover these objects soon, and that they will take us a step closer to resolving this tragic mystery.”


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## Old Sweat (24 Mar 2014)

I watched the news conference. The Malaysian PM based his conclusion on further inmarsat calculations that narrowed the area of the last contact to the southern Indian Ocean west of Perth. Still waiting for hard data such as recovered debris.


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## AirDet (24 Mar 2014)

Well, it's 0700 in the search area and Success is on station. We should have something definitive in the next few hours.


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## tomahawk6 (24 Mar 2014)

Well done !!


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## Nfld Sapper (24 Mar 2014)

Bad weather hampers search for possible debris

AMSA (Australian Maritime Safety Authority)  says search operations have been suspended until further notice because of two-metre high waves and four-metre swell caused by 80kph gale-force winds.

HMAS Success has left the zone due to rough seas and is travelling to an area south until conditions improve.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-25/malaysian-authorities-announce-mh370-lost-southern-indian-ocean/5328552


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## tomahawk6 (24 Mar 2014)

No problem though for a submarine.


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## larry Strong (27 Mar 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if 407 sent an aircraft? CTV just showed a video of the search and there were 2 Canadians wearing 407 Sqn patches and it was inside an Orion/Aurora.



*Canadian pilot helps in search for lost Malaysian Airlines jetliner*

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-pilot-helps-in-search-for-lost-malaysian-airlines-jetliner-1.1748824#ixzz2xCswH0Fy



Larry


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## Edward Campbell (28 Mar 2014)

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Straits Times_ is a (Reuters) report that touches on how _security_ issues _may_ be hampering the search:

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/geopolitical-games-handicap-malaysia-jet-hunt-20140328


> Geopolitical games handicap Malaysia jet hunt
> 
> Published on Mar 28, 2014
> 
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (9 Apr 2014)

The search area has narrowed considerably.I hope the article is correct because the families need closure and the industry needs answers.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/09/flight-370-effort-could-soon-shift-from-search-to-recovery/

The team of international investigators hunting for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 has "unquestionably" located the missing jetliner and could soon have high resolution images of the wreck site, an expert in deep sea recoveries of ships and planes told FoxNews.com.

There is virtually no chance that the pings picked up by ships towing sophisticated listening devices could be anything other than signals emitted by the plane's flight data recorder, or "black box," David Mearns, of Blue Water Recoveries, a United Kingdom-based company that holds the Guinness World Record for the deepest ocean recovery and has assisted searches for sunken planes.


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## cupper (6 Feb 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> One question I have is how much more would it add to the cost of a commercial aircraft to add a transponder system located in an inaccessible section if the aircraft, with an independent power source (and / or backup) that would continually broadcast GPS location info via satellite to ground stations?



Bumping for an interesting development on how something like this can be prevented in the future:

*U.N. Agency Sets New Standards For Tracking Aircraft In Flight*

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/05/383963482/new-standards-for-tracking-aircraft-in-flight



> The United Nations' aviation organization is endorsing a new standard meant to keep air traffic authorities and airlines from losing track of a jetliner, such as Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
> 
> That plane disappeared into the Indian Ocean almost a year ago with 239 people on board.
> 
> ...



Even 15 minutes reduces the search area exponentially. Assuming a cruising speed of 580 mph (listed for a 777), the search area would be approximately 68,000 square miles (a circle of 145 miles). If you extend that out to an hour of flying time, the search area goes to over 1,000,000 square miles. A little more than 3 hours you hit 10,000,000 square miles.

First Air which services the Canadian Arctic regions has a system which allows it to track its aircraft in real time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2894223/First-Air-installs-flight-tracking-designed-FLYHT-Aerospace-Solutions.html


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## Occam (6 Feb 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> Even 15 minutes reduces the search area exponentially. Assuming a cruising speed of 580 mph (listed for a 777), the search area would be approximately 68,000 square miles (a circle of 145 miles). If you extend that out to an hour of flying time, the search area goes to over 1,000,000 square miles. A little more than 3 hours you hit 10,000,000 square miles.



Hypothesizing here:  the problem is that if you have a pilot who has a screw loose (such as might have happened in this case), and they stop making that 15 minute periodic call-in, then what?  You also need a policy that would initiate some kind of action such as launching search aircraft.  By the time you have a search aircraft on scene, it would still be an incredibly large search area to deal with.  Also, for flights that transit outside of radar coverage, who is to say that the position reported isn't fudged?  The pilot could report a position on a track headed east, while the aircraft is actually heading in the opposite direction.  By the time they run out of fuel (or the ground realizes that someone should have gained radar coverage on them again), you're no further ahead in terms of a search area.

I'm afraid the only way to get around it is to take the position reporting completely out of the crew's hands, and hand it off to an automated system that calls in the position over satellite comms periodically.  Putting the circuit breaker on said system out of the reach of the flight crew would be a good idea too.  It's more expensive to run, but there aren't many things that can go wrong.


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## cupper (6 Feb 2015)

My understanding is that the system is to be an automated tracking system, not the crew calling in every 15 minutes, or in an emergency every minute.

Current systems ping every hour, which is what they were able to use to determine the approximate direction that Flight 370 flew after going off radar.


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## YZT580 (6 Feb 2015)

If the airline is willing to pay the tracking is done on a more frequent basis.  It costs though so many don't pay for the option.  Air France into the Atlantic is a good example.  They wouldn't pay for the service either.


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## Occam (7 Feb 2015)

cupper said:
			
		

> My understanding is that the system is to be an automated tracking system, not the crew calling in every 15 minutes, or in an emergency every minute.



The article doesn't say that, though - it doesn't mention anything about it being automated.  The second link you provided about the tracking system First Air uses, refers to an automated system that has "triggers" that tell it to start reporting information back to the mother ship.  Perhaps they intend to change the triggers to make it report every 15 minutes, regardless.  That's going to get costly, with the system using the Iridium network of satellites.



> Current systems ping every hour, which is what they were able to use to determine the approximate direction that Flight 370 flew after going off radar.



What you're referring to, with the pinging every hour thing, is actually Inmarsat.  There's a system called ACARS that can pass information to and from the aircraft.  ACARS can use VHF/HF radios, but a particular flavour of ACARS can use Inmarsat.  According to news reports, the ACARS system got turned off so that no data would be passed.  However, the Inmarsat system is still aboard the aircraft and turned on, and "pings" the satellites periodically as a type of comms check.  It's akin to having your cellphone turned on, but not having an active plan with the cellphone carrier.  Even though you can't make calls, there's still communication going on between your phone and the cell tower that allow your phone to register on the network, and allow you to see 5 bars or whatever of signal strength.  Every time the aircraft pinged the Inmarsat satellite, it gave away its rough position using the time/distance relationship between the aircraft and the satellite.  It was a pretty ingenious way to develop a probable track for the aircraft.


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## old medic (29 Jul 2015)

An interesting find on Reunion Island off Madagascar.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2137778/plane-debris-found-on-reunion-island-investigated-for-mh370-link/


http://www.linfo.re/la-reunion/faits-divers/673993-un-bout-d-aile-d-avion-decouvert-a-la-reunion-l-hypothese-de-la-malaysia-airlines-ecartee-par-un-specialiste#photo-2


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## CougarKing (5 Aug 2015)

Major update:

Reuters



> *Malaysia confirms debris found in Reunion is from Flight MH370*
> 
> KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak confirmed on Thursday that a Boeing 777 wing segment discovered in the Indian Ocean island of Reunion is from the missing Flight MH370, the first real breakthrough in the search for the plane that disappeared 17 months ago.
> 
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (5 Aug 2015)

Until another source confirms it, i won't believe it's 100%, right now my trust in anything the Malaysian government says is zip. They are looking for distractions from the 1mnD scandal.


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## Good2Golf (5 Aug 2015)

Unless anyone else is claiming ownership of a 777's inboard flaperon with a year+'s growth of barnacles on it (and no French or US/Boeing) denial, I'm willing to go along with it.


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## Colin Parkinson (5 Aug 2015)

I believe it part of it, but would rather hear it from the French. With the Malay PM claiming the 2.6b ringett is a merely a donation, I would not believe them if the said the sun is coming up in the east. Also would not be the first time they have made dishonest claims on this particular file.


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## Good2Golf (5 Aug 2015)

In that regard, we are of the same mind.  That's why my belief is primarily based on no denial of the fact by French (or US/Boeing) authorities.  I did wonder for a short pause why there wasn't a joint statement, but perhaps the French believed it was overall more appropriate to let the Malaysian PM make the announcement?

Regards
G2G


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Aug 2015)

Possible, but it seems the Malays are starting to annoy the other adults by withholding various bits of information. Basically the Malaysian government has been operating on cronyism, corruption, incompetence and race based hiring over competency. All fine in dandy when you keep it at home, but these incidents have shown to the rest of the countries how incompetent they are and they want to try to cover it up, but are even incompetent at that.


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## CougarKing (7 Aug 2015)

If the French investigators come up with a different conclusion on the wing part, it's only going to lower the Malaysian PM's credibility.

Reuters



> *Malaysia seeks help, France widens search for missing plane*
> Thu Aug 6, 2015 11:08pm EDT
> 
> By Al-Zaquan Amer Hamzah
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (7 Aug 2015)

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> If the French investigators come up with a different conclusion on the wing part, it's only going to lower the Malaysian PM's credibility.
> 
> Reuters



The PM's credibility is already at low tide as he is under investigation for corruption.Corruption in asia ?


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## CougarKing (7 Aug 2015)

T6, you can find out more about the Malaysian 1MDB corruption scandal at this article on another site.

Meanwhile, anger grows among the families of the missing passengers who were from China.

As usual, Beijing allows people to protest against foreign entities of "covering up" while not allowing the Chinese government's actions to be questioned on other issues.

Reuters



> *Angry Chinese families seek answers about missing Malaysian plane*
> Fri Aug 7, 2015 4:01am EDT
> 
> By Trinna Leong and Michael Martina
> ...


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## CougarKing (19 Aug 2015)

Why do I have a feeling that the French investigators might have different conclusions, about the supposed MH370 part, from what the Malaysian government stated last week or so?

Reuters



> *Australia says French-led inspection of wing piece from MH370 complete*
> Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:58pm EDT
> 
> By Alwyn Scott
> ...


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## CougarKing (21 Aug 2015)

Shouldn't there just be one ICAO-led investigation instead of all these conflicting national authorities? Malaysians disagreeing with the French etc.

Reuters



> *MH370 debris exposes divisions over air crash investigations*
> Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:47am EDT
> 
> By Tim Hepher
> ...


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## Oldgateboatdriver (21 Aug 2015)

ICAO sets up the guidelines for carrying out investigations and reporting format, but it has no investigators of its own. Each country decides how it sets itself up for accidents occurring on their territory. The US, Canada and many others have their own investigative bodies, but many smaller nations with more limited resources don't and ask for foreign assistance when necessary. 

However, all countries usually ask for assistance from the various manufacturers, as may be required, when one of their models is involved in the accident (Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer, etc). Often in such cases, the air accident investigating bodies of those manufacturer's country of origin will also ask to be involved for obvious reasons.

The real problem here is with France. It is home to Airbus, and if the crash investigator's work is blocked every time the judiciary down there decides to have a criminal investigation because a French citizen was onboard, it may make everyone not French investigating an Airbus crash reconsider getting any assistance from the French investigator or Airbus - which would be too bad because they both have a very good reputation for what they do.

P.s: Most people don't realize how powerful the French police and criminal magistrates are in France. It is to the point where you could almost call France a police state. You don't have basic rights there such as the right to remain silent (you must answer the "juge d'instruction's" questions), or the right of protection from unreasonable search, or the presumption of innocence (if you are sent to trial, the prima facie case against you is sufficient to force you to prove your innocence in order to be found not guilty).


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## Retired AF Guy (21 Aug 2015)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> P.s: Most people don't realize how powerful the French police and criminal magistrates are in France. It is to the point where you could almost call France a police state. You don't have basic rights there such as the right to remain silent (you must answer the "juge d'instruction's" questions), or the right of protection from unreasonable search, or the presumption of innocence (if you are sent to trial, the prima facie case against you is sufficient to force you to prove your innocence in order to be found not guilty).



Same thing in Italy, or any other country that adopted versions of the Napoleonic Code. Like you say investigating judges have enormous power; they run the show. They can oversee the whole investigation and can tell the police who to investigate/pick-up/monitor/arrest, etc. A lot different from countries like Canada who derive its laws from England.


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Aug 2015)

The sea life found on the component may yield some clues as to the crash site location. Species, growth patterns, isotopes, genetic differences,etc.


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## CougarKing (15 Oct 2015)

Another false lead?

Channel News Asia



> *Malaysia awaits information from Philippines on MH370 wreckage discovery claim*
> 
> KUALA LUMPUR: The Malaysian Transport Ministry has directed the Department of Civil Aviation to investigate *a claim that wreckage of a plane which could be MH370 had been found on an island in the southern Philippines.*
> 
> ...


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## CougarKing (8 Dec 2015)

So essentially they are not positively sure that the plane had a double-engine flameout...

International Business Times



> *Flight MH370 Update: Malaysia Airlines Plane Likely Had Double Engine Flameout, ATSB Says*
> By Suman Varandani @suman09 s.varandani@ibtimes.com on December 04 2015 12:50 AM EST
> 
> *Both engines of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 likely flamed out, suggesting that the jet was not intentionally ditched, Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said in a new report Thursday. T*he news comes as Australian authorities showed their confidence over the area where the search for the missing plane has been underway for months.
> ...


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## CougarKing (2 Mar 2016)

Another lead?

Yahoo News



> *Wreckage From Missing MH370 Plane ‘Found’*
> [Yahoo News]
> 
> March 2, 2016
> ...


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## CougarKing (6 Mar 2016)

Yet another theory:

International Business Times



> *Flight MH370 Update: Malaysia Airlines Plane Was ‘Deliberately Flown,’ Kiwi Expert Claims Ahead Of Disappearance Anniversary*
> By Suman Varandani @suman09 On 03/06/16 AT 12:59 AM
> 
> Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was being “deliberately flown” before it went down in the southern Indian Ocean, a Kiwi oceanographer involved in the search for the Air France Flight 447 wreckage in 2011, reportedly said Sunday. Rob McCallum, who works for deep sea search and recovery specialists Williamson & Associates based in Seattle, made the comments just two days ahead of the second anniversary of Flight MH370’s disappearance.
> ...


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## CougarKing (14 Mar 2016)

Canadian Press



> *South African teen finds possible MH370 plane debris*
> 
> Lynsey Chutel, The Associated Press
> The Canadian Press
> ...


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## mariomike (5 Aug 2016)

Aug 5, 2016 

Malaysia confirms Flight 370 course was on pilot's simulator
http://www.680news.com/2016/08/05/malaysia-confirms-flight-370-course-was-on-pilots-simulator/
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Malaysia acknowledged for the first time that one of the pilots of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 had plotted a course on his home flight simulator to the southern Indian Ocean, where the missing jet is believed to have crashed.


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## CougarKing (16 Sep 2016)

One question answered only leads to more questions:

Canadian Press



> *Wing flap found in Tanzania confirmed to be part of MH370*
> Canadian Press
> September 15, 2016
> 
> ...


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## NavyShooter (5 Apr 2021)

An interesting perspective on the disappearance by the Royal Aeronautical Society:






Summary, suspect hijack, aircraft in controlled flight throughout, headed for Christmas Island, ran out of fuel and crashed just south of the island.

Very compelling presentation.


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## Haggis (5 Apr 2021)

Mere minutes ago I was watching a program about this disappearance. I look at my phone and the above post pops up in my notifications.  Eerie...


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## Kilted (6 Apr 2021)

I still think that they ended up on an island with polar bears.


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## Good2Golf (6 Apr 2021)

Very compelling, particularly the analysis of the starboard flaperon damage and threading the FIRs.


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Apr 2021)

Although I can`t fathom what the pilot would gain by flying to Christmas Island?


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