# Cadpat Appropriate for Wear in Public?



## Matt_Fisher (2 Nov 2005)

I was watching the Oilers vs. Blue Jackets game last night (after watching my Habs win against the Panthers in OT  ;D) and the camera panned in on this group of CF soldiers at the game in Edmonton.  To my shock, they were all dressed in cadpat combats   .

I can see the point in wearing combats for certain public events, such as dog & pony shows of vehicles/equipment, etc.  However for attending something as a sporting event like the hockey game or another public function where you're in uniform to represent yourself as a Soldier, why not do it with a bit more class and do it in DEUs?

I know that in the Marines, we're very draconian about wear of our combat utility uniform off base, to the point that you can and will likely get charged if caught in your utilities in a restaurant, shopping mall, or any other non-duty event.  However, we have a reputation of always being well turned out with our service dress uniforms because we make a point of keeping marpat utilities for work/field and using service dress or blues for public functions.


----------



## Forgotten_Hero (2 Nov 2005)

IMO, for any *formal* public event, DEUs. Anything less formal, well, cadpat is fine.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (2 Nov 2005)

A lot of places have soldier appreciation.  The Manitoba Moose did it all the time and the dress for the night was combats.


----------



## buzgo (2 Nov 2005)

The Senators do that too, and I think its in combats as well. I agree that for more 'formal' events DEU is the way to go. 

At work we're pretty diligent about making sure the guys don't go and hang around the mall in combats, or go to bars after work. Haven't seen anyone charged, but people have been given warnings for sure.


----------



## armyvern (2 Nov 2005)

signalsguy said:
			
		

> The Senators do that too, and I think its in combats as well. I agree that for more 'formal' events DEU is the way to go.
> 
> At work we're pretty diligent about making sure the guys don't go and hang around the mall in combats, or go to bars after work. Haven't seen anyone charged, but people have been given warnings for sure.



The Skydome in Toronto as well has CF Appreciation Days....
We would often load up on the busses in Trenton in our cadpat to make our way there to see the Blue Jays....lose!!


----------



## onecat (2 Nov 2005)

CADPAT is fine at a hockey.  There's nothing special about a hockey game. I think you should follow this if you would dress up for it in civi's then DEU, but it has to formal.


----------



## AoD71 (2 Nov 2005)

Has anyone here gotten married in their dress uniform?


----------



## GO!!! (2 Nov 2005)

AoD71 said:
			
		

> Has anyone here gotten married in their dress uniform?



Yup, and with all the attention I got on the way to the church, I wanted to put it off a few more years!  ;D


----------



## Sgt_Battler (2 Nov 2005)

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but for the sake of not eating more bandwidth by starting another topic, is one permitted to wear their DEU's at things such as graduation dinner-dances and such?


----------



## Redeye (2 Nov 2005)

Bosa said:
			
		

> Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but for the sake of not eating more bandwidth by starting another topic, is one permitted to wear their DEU's at things such as graduation dinner-dances and such?



With permission, yes.


----------



## honestyrules (2 Nov 2005)

I did get married in uniform, and it's common practice. Some will say that they wear army gear during the day and it's enough. Some others want to get married in CF's because they're proud to be in the CF and want to do it in CF's (DEU). Some who do will wear a white dress shirt and a black tie instead of the issued stuff.

It is a personal decision.
Ref CADPAT, in Gagetown, you see army personnel wearing CADPAT all over the place. It also depends of the ratio serving members/civvies in the area.
In Quebec city, it is rare to see people in uniform. I read on this forum that some serving members, in some areas of the country, are not really welcomed by the population.

In short, the "uniform in public" thing depends of where you are...


----------



## paracowboy (2 Nov 2005)

I can't answer the poll as it doesn't have enough options. Combats are fine for some occasions, but not all. Not all situations warrant DEUs, either. And finally, most situations don't require any uniform, whatsoever, and should be attended in civvies, especially if alcohol is likely to be involved. More so if alcohol and cameras are present.


----------



## Jarnhamar (2 Nov 2005)

I think soldiers going out in public in cadpat (Well behaved and not swearing) is a good thing. More publicity and people become more comfortable with the fact Canada has soldiers and they live next to them.  DUE's are a little too formal IMHO for stuff like that.

I'm actually trying to bring about more section "brotherhood" with the guys in my section by proposing stuff like movie nights, BBQs, heading too a restraunt or bar.  I'm toying with the idea of going in uniform.


----------



## Sh0rtbUs (2 Nov 2005)

It is fairly common practise in our unit for some of the guys to hit the bars after a Parade night in uniform. Nobody has really said anything about it, and those who take part are often senior NCM's themselves...


----------



## Gunner98 (2 Nov 2005)

IMHO - CADPAT is wrinkle resistant and washer/dryer safe.  DEU is normally drycleaned.  If you are sitting around on a bus and then at an arena/ball park it can be hard to look polished to the other spectators and for the tv cameras. CADPAT is easier to keep people looking uniform and relaxed (no unbuttoned tunics or loosened ties). Is everyone else in attendance dressed formally? Or are the fans wearing t-shirts, jeans and ballcaps.

If your parading onto the field go formal, if you are window-dressing in the seats - CADPAT.


----------



## enfield (2 Nov 2005)

I never really understood the RegF aversion to going out after work in uniform - to dinner, even to a drink at a bar. Be professional, don't do anything stupid, and hopefully impress some girls. I think all Res units have a tradition of going out after parade night in uniform - to bars, restaurants, wherever. Soldiers should be proud of their uniforms and happy to be seen in public in them at any opportunity. 

However, any public event, I think troops should be in DEUs. Sports games, PAffO, recruiting, etc. Heck, even for office work, I think combats are inappropriate. 

We're soldiers, we're supposed to look different - tighter, better, stronger, cleaner, and symbolizing the CF. Anonymous relish doesn't quite do that like DEUs. The idea is not to look like the rumpled masses.


----------



## Gunner98 (2 Nov 2005)

I have been on both sides of the Total Force fence. Perhaps the "RegF aversion" comes from wearing the uniform more than one parade night each week.  Maybe your time at the bar in uniform reflects poorly on all of us, so the RegF superiors take a dim view of punch-ups involving any uniformed, inebriated soldiers.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (2 Nov 2005)

Not to mention in downtown Guelph I might stand out and have the LCF, while in downtown Pembroke I would look like I was too lazy to go home and shower/ change after work before going out......


----------



## geo (2 Nov 2005)

Cadpat is the dress of the day - regardless of being in the office, the hangar or in the field.... that's great but, regardless of how hard you try to look good, you won't look your very best.

Cadpat is great but, you can do better. A well tailored set of DEUs will get everyone's attention... you only get one chance to make a good 1st impressions 

If you're going out on the town (driving) & you "may" have a drink.... do everyone a favour... wear civvies! Every day I get reports on guys in uniform getting it on and getting stopped by the locals or the MPs... the repercussions aren't worth it!!


----------



## Infanteer (2 Nov 2005)

Wearing CADPAT is like a mechanic wearing his coveralls - we need a nice uniform so I can dazzle the ladies.


----------



## Gunner98 (2 Nov 2005)

I'm with you Infanteer ;D - In CADPAT everyone looks the same and we know how impressed the ladies can be by all of those fancy pins, gongs and war stars.


----------



## vanislerev (2 Nov 2005)

yes, i know, first post, so dont take anything i say seriously 
the CF needs something along the lines of the US khakis, crisp pants, and shirt with tie, DEUs are high on the formal side, great looking, but too much for office work or anything along those lines, it seems there is only two options, too much or not enough? 
as for cadpats in public, i think no, the military is supposed to dazzle and inspire, cadpat doesnt do that for the average joe


----------



## Jarnhamar (3 Nov 2005)

> as for cadpats in public, i think no, the military is supposed to dazzle and inspire, cadpat doesnt do that for the average joe



Have to disagree here. A lot of it is bearing pride and confidence.
You can tell the difference between a soldier who yanks on a set of combats and drags his ass to work and someone whos in good fitting cadpat combats with a maroon beret, belmoral or beret with capbadge.

I've seen lots of guys and girls out there who make you think "Wow, this person has a real professional aura about them".
DEUs look great for formal events but IMHO pride and bearing makes a soldier a hell of a lot more professional irregardless of what he or she is wearing.


----------



## paracowboy (3 Nov 2005)

forget it! We've gone through that stupid "uniform for every day of the week" crap. Two different DEUs, combats, and that god-awful Garrison dress. Screw a buncha that noise!
Do you realize that I now have 18 pairs of black footwear as it is? EIGHTEEN! I got two friggin' feet!


----------



## MJP (3 Nov 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> forget it! We've gone through that stupid "uniform for every day of the week" crap. Two different DEUs, combats, and that god-awful Garrison dress. Screw a buncha that noise!
> Do you realize that I now have 18 pairs of black footwear as it is? EIGHTEEN! I got two friggin' feet!



"hear, hear!"


----------



## RangerRay (3 Nov 2005)

I actually liked the old garrison dress... 

 :-[


----------



## beach_bum (3 Nov 2005)

Ugh.  Garrison dress.  In my basement I have tans, garrison dress and all kinds of other useless kit.  I was so happy when they got rid of garrison dress!


----------



## couchcommander (3 Nov 2005)

EDIT: thought this was a different thread, and it had a comment attached to it... but nvm

... sorry for being such a civvy, but what is "garrison dress", and "tans"? Got any pics (I know the DEU or whatever it is and of course combats, but the others..... ????)


----------



## old medic (3 Nov 2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces

" "No. 4 (Garrison) Dress", which consisted of the old-style work dress pants, a disruptive-pattern jacket, a black web belt, a short-sleeve summer Service Dress shirt with the collar open and over the jacket collar, and high paratrooper-style garrison boots. Due to concerns over the number of uniforms Army personnel had to carry with them on postings and taskings, the tan summer DEU was eventually retired, and the winter uniform mandated for year-round wear. The garrison dress uniform was never popular with the combat arms, who generally eschewed it for the combat uniform, even in garrison; Land Force Command soon stopped altogether and authorized combat uniform for all occasions where garrison dress was deemed appropriate, and eventually this authorization was extended to Land environment personnel in other commands. "


----------



## couchcommander (3 Nov 2005)

Ah, wikipedia, would have been smart to look there first....  ;D


----------



## The_Falcon (3 Nov 2005)

I think wearing a combat uniform in public is fine so long as you conduct and compose yourself in a professional manner (Especially if you are going out for a few drinks).  My own unit's policy on wearing a uniform in public tends to vary on the CO/RSM at the moment, and whether or not the CF is getting some bad press.  Sometimes its allowable, other times it is a strict no-no. As far as wearing deu, as much ladies like the kilt, I would prefer going out in combats, as my unit would not be happy if I ruined a $500 kilt.  And yes I have gone out in uniform, mostly cause it was spur of the moment and I didn't have change of clothes.


----------



## Thompson_JM (3 Nov 2005)

I think every reservist has at one point or another gone out for a brown pop, after work or exercise in uniform... personally i dont think there is a real issue provided everyone behaves... but the problem is that this doesnt always happen. personally I'll go out breifly after a parade night for a drink and some food with my work buddies from time to time. but we also make sure when in the public eye to carry ourselves properly. no acting like asses, dont be too loud, dont talk about inapropriate subjects, dont get drunk, be polite and respectful to any civilians you may encounter. etc... 

truth be told... where I live, the uniform doesnt do jack. Girs here just dont care... or maybe i really am just that ugly.... nah.. im a beautiful and unique snowflake....


anyways, my .02, if youre gonna go out, make sure youre wearing it properly, it looks good, and you act like an adult...


----------



## Devlin (3 Nov 2005)

> .  However, we have a reputation of always being well turned out with our service dress uniforms because we make a point of keeping marpat utilities for work/field and using service dress or blues for public functions.



Matt:

The Marine dress uniform is IMHO one of the sharpest dress uniforms out there, if not the sharpest. While I obviously can't speak for everyone, the CF DEU is more than a bit dated. Even after having it tailored etc... the uniform just looks a little drab and dated. 

Short story one of my old CO's a full Col. was standing downtown Ottawa waiting to cross the street while wearing DEU's. A civie asked him when the next bus would be past, the Col. replied that he didn't know, the civie was surprised that someone who "drove a bus for a living" would not know when the next one would be coming past. Kind of speaks to the general ignorance of the average Canadian while at the same time it's pretty bad when your dressed and pressed and you get mistaken for a bus driver. 

Do I think we should all look like Marines, well no of course not. But I think the CF DEU could be improved. What's the answer to be honest I don't know.


----------



## CdnArtyWife (3 Nov 2005)

Okay, here is a civie wifey's point of view:

CADPAT is hot looking on most everyone. I fight myself every morning, and again at lunch time to keep from attacking hubby and let him go to work.  :-* But, it is everyday wear...

DEU's are hotter...that is why I like Rememberance Day so much...not only can I observe the sacrifice that so many men and women have made for our country at home and abroad...but I can stand in a sea of eye candy....mmmmmm.....rows upon rows upon rows of hotties in crisp, sharp, official uniforms....YUMMY!

Mess Dress....WOWZERS!! There is something to be said about a shortwaisted scartlet tunic and bowtie...it far surpasses any tux the "average joe" could wear. 

As for weather CADPAT or DEUs should be worn to a hockey game or other function...I am in full agreement with Paracowboy on that one. If there is no alcohol involved and the members are behaving appropriately then wear the CADPAT. If you are parading on the field or ice...wear the DEUs.

People tend to be more conscious of their behavior and therefore behave more professionally when wearing DEUs, that may be because they have the feeling of it being a formal dress...or it could be because they don't wear it everyday and therefore are just that much more aware of the situation after having taken the time to dryclean or freshly press it. Members wear CADPAT almost everyday...so it is their second skin...and thus can forget that even in CADPAT they represent the CF as a whole and professional behavior can sometimes go out the door due to feeling of comfort and routine.

It is important that all members, RegF or Res, remember that while wearing any version of their uniform a modicum of professionalism is expected of them...therefore going to a bar in CADPAT should be justly frowned upon. It is one thing to stop at a place after work for ONE beer to help unwind maybe while munching on some nachos...but to go to a bar with the intent to have more than just a beer to unwind, definately not kosher in my opinion.


----------



## big_castor (3 Nov 2005)

Devlin said:
			
		

> Kind of speaks to the general ignorance of the average Canadian while at the same time it's pretty bad when your dressed and pressed and you get mistaken for a bus driver.



During a fundraising activity in a supermarket, somebody took a long good look at my DEU's and told me very seriously that she really liked the new cashiers uniforms.   She then proceeded to ask a real cashier why she wasn't wearing a tie.....


----------



## paracowboy (3 Nov 2005)

y'know what? The more I think about this thread, the angrier I get.
We're debating uniforms when we have troops that haven't fired their weapons in a decade, Infantrymen who are lucky to shoot once a year, aircraft that don't fly, subs that don't surface, and Exercises so short that troops learn nothing.
We're talking about form over function, and the whole thing is shallow. I say get rid of DEUs entirely, and put that money towards things that will keep soldiers alive on the battlefield, airmen alive in the skies, and sailors alive on the seas.

Anybody who's worried about looking good in uniform, try doing a fucking push-up once in a while!


----------



## geo (3 Nov 2005)

vanislerev said:
			
		

> yes, i know, first post, so dont take anything i say seriously
> the CF needs something along the lines of the US khakis, crisp pants, and shirt with tie, DEUs are high on the formal side, great looking, but too much for office work or anything along those lines, it seems there is only two options, too much or not enough?
> as for cadpats in public, i think no, the military is supposed to dazzle and inspire, cadpat doesnt do that for the average joe


Hate to tell you but you can press DEU trousers & Shirt... they can be just as "sharp" as the Marine Khakis or the Army's service dress.

With respect to wearing Cadpats at a public activity..... when you have 30 guys all wearing a uniform that has faded to 30 different hues & colours (not even taking into account the differences between tops & bottoms..... 
Hate to tell ya but; you really don't look all that professional & "uniform"

just my personal 2 ¢ worth


----------



## GO!!! (3 Nov 2005)

Paracowboy is right, we have far larger problems in the CF than our Dress Uniforms (which are pretty sad, in comparison to most other militaries) but I think we could do a far better job of looking professional and compeptent in the public eye if we simply enforced PT standards. 

If every Canadian citizen thought "soldier" and the image of a fit, clean cut man/woman came to mind, it would have a far greater impact than us wearing DEUs all of time!

Sadly this is not the case, as our combats come in sizes up to something ridiculous like a 60" waist.

Nothing does more damage to our credibility and "image" than a sad sack of hammers waddling through the mall with their touque pulled down to thei noses, as they gasp out an order at McDonalds.

Ever seen a fat Royal Marine/USMC/ Ranger etc.? - did'nt think so, 

Concentrate on the soldier, not the uniform, that is what the public sees, and will remember.


----------



## Infanteer (3 Nov 2005)

+1 to what GO!!! and Para say.


----------



## Forgotten_Hero (3 Nov 2005)

> I think soldiers going out in public in cadpat (Well behaved and not swearing) is a good thing. More publicity and people become more comfortable with the fact Canada has soldiers and they live next to them.  DUE's are a little too formal IMHO for stuff like that.



I'd like to touch on this actually. Wearing cadpat among the public does make it seem like people do live among soldiers, that the soldiers are integrated in the society. When seeing someone in DEUs, though, people seem to think that they've come from somewhere else... they almost draw too much attention for something menial and make people notice them to the point that they seem like a different part of society rather than being integrated in it.


----------



## Cpl.Banks (3 Nov 2005)

Ironically enough wearing the old OD combats gets me quite a few strange glances, whereas wearing my dress uniform nobody seems to notice...then again it is a cadet uniform 

UBIQUE!!!!


----------



## paracowboy (3 Nov 2005)

they're a needless expenditure to a cash-strapped military. We ain't got enough beans an' bullets, but we got pretty sparklies on our uniforms.* GAY*.

That being said, I will be wearing mine to give a presentation to the Greenfields (Greenshields, Green-something) School Nov 10. And they're tailored, and they have sparkly crap on them. And it's still gay.


----------



## geo (3 Nov 2005)

Hey.... the CF actually made money when they discontinued the clothing upkeep allowance in favor of giving all troops points to maintain their uniform.

Is this another communist plot by the dastardly Liberals?

Nope.... just sensible management and the fact that most troops were pocketing the allowance and wearing their worn out crap.

IMHO


----------



## AoD71 (3 Nov 2005)

Yea I read about the point system thing they have going on in the newsletter, when I was in the recruiting office. What do you guys think about it? Do they give enough points?


----------



## paracowboy (3 Nov 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> If we get beans n' bullets, will you then approve of a purchase of some more sparklies so we can be better turned out in public?


we get enough fightin' stuff to keep our people alive and become the force we should be, I'll design the friggin' sparklies! I'll deck you silly bastiches out like Soviet Field Marshalls if you want! Iron Crosses all around!





			
				geo said:
			
		

> Hey.... the CF actually made money when they discontinued the clothing upkeep allowance in favor of giving all troops points to maintain their uniform.
> 
> Is this another communist plot by the dastardly Liberals?
> 
> Nope.... just sensible management and the fact that most troops were pocketing the allowance and wearing their worn out crap.


yeah, this was a good idea that saved the CF a lot of money. Think how much more would be saved by eliminating the entire uniform, altogether.


----------



## GO!!! (4 Nov 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Hey.... the CF actually made money when they discontinued the clothing upkeep allowance in favor of giving all troops points to maintain their uniform.
> 
> Is this another communist plot by the dastardly Liberals?
> 
> ...



Yeah, whew, would'nt want the great unwashed pocketing a few extra bucks each year.

So will drycleaning now be covered by points? Can I drop my DEUs off at stores for drycleaning? Did'nt think so. Will the CF subsidise my kit bag full of muddy, diesel stained and CS contaminated clothing? Or should I take care of that myself too? So the CF unloaded a maintenance cost onto their soldiers in the name of fiscal planning. Good job.

What is that principle? "know your men and promote their wel..." nah, thats just what they tell you. It's not supposed to have any practical application.


----------



## Acorn (4 Nov 2005)

CUA was never intended to pay for drycleaning, and never for replacing kit other than CFs.

As for caring for other items of kit, WTF do you want? An allowance for washing powder? A percentage of your water bill paid for by the CF? maybe we should get an allowance for soap and shaving cream? Boot polish paid for? Haircuts?

Don't they pay you enough?

GO!!, in case you missed the boat, the money (depite the name of the allowance) was for replacing damaged or worn out CF kit. Unless you were a terminal participant in CB or Stoppage of Leave, as a Cbt arms soldier you likely never spent anywhere near the monthly tax free allowance for drycleaning anyway. "Unloaded a maintenance cost" indeed.


----------



## Boogilywoo (4 Nov 2005)

Out of curiosity, seeing as how this topic came up anyways...

On my BMQ our Platoon Warrant told us that we were allowed to wear our uniforms to school on Rememberance Day. Would he have been refering to CADPAT, or the DEUs?

Would I be alright for me to wear my CADPAT to my classes that day, seeing as I have not yet been issued my DEUs?


----------



## geo (4 Nov 2005)

well.... 
the simple question would be to say.... Ask your Platoon WO
Tech speaking, he was refering to the DEUs.
... then again, outside of Quebec, Nov 11th is supposed to be a statutory holliday and I didn't think there were any classes on that day.
... Cadpat is not intended as a uniform to go to school in (unless it is battle school)


----------



## paracowboy (4 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> So will drycleaning now be covered by points? Can I drop my DEUs off at stores for drycleaning? Did'nt think so. Will the CF subsidise my kit bag full of muddy, diesel stained and CS contaminated clothing? Or should I take care of that myself too? So the CF unloaded a maintenance cost onto their soldiers in the name of fiscal planning. Good job.


duuude! All of your outside expenses can be claimed on income tax. Save your receipts. Anything job-related is claimable (is that a word?). That includes dry-cleaning, and laundry detergent. I get a nice chunk back every year. 





			
				Boogilywoo said:
			
		

> Would I be alright for me to wear my CADPAT to my classes that day, seeing as I have not yet been issued my DEUs?


this is a question you are better off asking your Chain of Command. What my boss says may not jibe with yours.

never mind. Geo beat me to it. 

Curses! Foiled again!


----------



## PJ D-Dog (4 Nov 2005)

I agree with Matt, if it's a public event of any sort, it should be DEUs.  Show the colors anytime you can.  Cadpat is for daily work and the field.

In the Marine Corps, we can wear Marpats if you have to stop on the way to or from work for gas, diapers, milk or other essential items for the household but not anything else.  And yes, we will be charged if we get caught.  Public image is everything.  Have you ever seen a Marine on the Price is Right in cammies?....or how about a Canadian soldier in cadpat on Front page challenge or definitions

PJ D-Dog


----------



## paracowboy (4 Nov 2005)

having worked with the USMC, I've seen the money you get to train with. You can afford pretty uniforms. We have to sort this crap out by priority. And looking nice is real damn low on my list of priorities. Training and equipping service members to fight and survive is number one.

At home, I don't worry about buying chrome for the truck, if I can't afford groceries. Same thing here.

I often wonder just how much money we would have for proper equipments and training if there were more fiscal responsibility at the highest levels. How much money gets pissed away on stupid crap like safety posters and that dumb Army TV that nobody watches, that could go towards Exercises, or ranges?


----------



## Matt_Fisher (4 Nov 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> I often wonder just how much money we would have for proper equipments and training if there were more fiscal responsibility at the highest levels. How much money gets pissed away on stupid crap like safety posters and that dumb Army TV that nobody watches, that could go towards Exercises, or ranges?



You mean like that classic "Je suis un petard/I am a thunderflash"?   ;D


----------



## GO!!! (4 Nov 2005)

Acorn said:
			
		

> CUA was never intended to pay for drycleaning, and never for replacing kit other than CFs.
> 
> As for caring for other items of kit, WTF do you want? An allowance for washing powder? A percentage of your water bill paid for by the CF? maybe we should get an allowance for soap and shaving cream? Boot polish paid for? Haircuts?
> 
> ...



I have been told since the first day of my military career that CUA was for the upkeep of your field kit (because there is alot of it) and the drycleaning/tailoring etc of your DEUs, with the occasional purchase of new stuff. I would say that 17$ was kind of low in this respect, and does not even begin to cover what I already spend on uniform upkeep. If the army issues you a vehicle, are you expected to pay for gas and maintenance? Of course not, it is the crown's and you are expected to give it back in a certain condition, so the crown pays for the maintenance. Why is personal kit any different?


----------



## Michael Dorosh (4 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I have been told since the first day of my military career that CUA was for the upkeep of your field kit (because there is alot of it) and the drycleaning/tailoring etc of your DEUs, with the occasional purchase of new stuff. I would say that 17$ was kind of low in this respect, and does not even begin to cover what I already spend on uniform upkeep. If the army issues you a vehicle, are you expected to pay for gas and maintenance? Of course not, it is the crown's and you are expected to give it back in a certain condition, so the crown pays for the maintenance. Why is personal kit any different?



One significant difference is that not everybody is issued a vehicle, yet everyone is issued a uniform....


----------



## geo (4 Nov 2005)

GO... as they have always said, ignorance is not an excuse.

The CUA was intended for individuals to maintain the uniforms that are issued once and which we were/are expected to maintain. Over the years, I have seen too many people with berets down to the cord & gray, worn out shoes, threadbare shirts, ankle high trousers and jackets that look like they're being worn by the incredible hulk... sometimes all on the same person at the same time.... it wasn't right! 

Haircuts, laundry detergent, drycleaning, rent & rations are the same thing for everyone - civy or military.... I see no reason for your rant except the fact that they took that "lousy" 17$ away from you.... I've lost it too. I can live with it.


----------



## GO!!! (4 Nov 2005)

Negative.

Any civvie job I've had that required uniforms, special safety gear etc provided it, and had provisions for maintenance of it.

eg. when I worked on the rigs we were issued all of the pertinent safety/environmental gear, and the company took it back for cleaning at the end of your 12 day shift for cleaning, or gave you 39$ to have it cleaned.

While I realise that as a CWO you are expected to share the "corporate mentality" (you can't be angry at the man, because you ARE the mans' embodiment) - advocating a clawback of soldier's benefits is far from in the interest of the troops.

Why not get rid of the PLD you enjoy in Montreal as well? You probably are'nt spending it on the necessities of life, so it should be taken away to save the CF money. Sounds pretty good - right?  ^-^


----------



## Michael Dorosh (4 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Negative.
> 
> Any civvie job I've had that required uniforms, special safety gear etc provided it, and had provisions for maintenance of it.
> 
> ...



Rigworkers had dress uniforms?

When I was operations manager of a courier company, we issued out shirts and expected the couriers to wash them at home.  We also expected bicycle couriers to provide and maintain their own bicycles.

There is no "universal law" regarding the provision of maintenance funds.  It varies from company to company and industry to industry.  The oilpatch makes a ton of money.  The Canadian Army is not-for-profit.  I think that too is a significant difference...


----------



## geo (4 Nov 2005)

PLDs are paid in a number of places, not just in Montreal. Matter of fact, it's a lot lower here than places like TO & Vancouver.... 

There are ground rules for the PLD the same as there were ground rules as to what the CUA was for... if you are entitled to PLD I am certain that you'd be willing to belly up to the community trough

Gripe to the people who work for car rental business' and those working the counters and dining rooms of restaurants about having to keep their uniforms clean.


----------



## Neill McKay (4 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Any civvie job I've had that required uniforms, special safety gear etc provided it, and had provisions for maintenance of it.



That's often (but not always) true for things like safety gear, but much less often for other kinds of clothing (e.g. retail store or fast food restaurant uniforms).  I'm expected to wear appropriate business attire to my day job, but no-one's paying my drycleaning bill but me.



> While I realise that as a CWO you are expected to share the "corporate mentality" (you can't be angry at the man, because you ARE the mans' embodiment) - advocating a clawback of soldier's benefits is far from in the interest of the troops.



CUA has traditionally been for replacement of worn and damaged kit.  I've seen that in training materials from 1950s-vintage RCN books to things that were current in the 1990s.  There's no clawback here -- the allowance has been replaced with points, a theoretically equivalent value.


----------



## armyvern (4 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I have been told since the first day of my military career that CUA was for the upkeep of your field kit (because there is alot of it)


Go...someone told you wrong. The CFAO's read that the CUA was for the upkeep & replacement of permanently issued uniform items. Therefore DEU only. Your operational items are not permanent issue and are exchangeable when worn out so they don't cost you anything to replace, ergo the loss of CUA has no impact on that.


			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> tailoring etc of your DEUs.


This is done by your local Base Tailor Shop and paid for by the Crown, it doesn't cost you anything, now if one chooses to go downtown instead that would be their choice and their expense.


			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> I would say that 17$ was kind of low in this respect, and does not even begin to cover what I already spend on uniform upkeep.


CUA was an allowance paid out by the Treasury Board to federal public servants. Be thankful that you aren't a Canada Post worker etc that received the same allowance but had to wear the uniform every day, thus needing to replace it more often. 


			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> If the army issues you a vehicle, are you expected to pay for gas and maintenance? Of course not, it is the crown's and you are expected to give it back in a certain condition, so the crown pays for the maintenance. Why is personal kit any different?


An exactly opposite scenario to your example above actually occured with CUA
...the TB gave you an allowance of 17 bucks a month to replace a DEU uniform they were *never* going to get back from you....
...and the uniforms you do give back and exchange that you didn't get CUA for?? I bet they are far from being in any kind of re-usable condition when you do give them back...why should they pay you money for that when you can walk in an exchange that stuff any time you like?


----------



## Acorn (5 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I have been told since the first day of my military career that CUA was for the upkeep of your field kit (because there is alot of it) and the drycleaning/tailoring etc of your DEUs, with the occasional purchase of new stuff. I would say that 17$ was kind of low in this respect, and does not even begin to cover what I already spend on uniform upkeep. If the army issues you a vehicle, are you expected to pay for gas and maintenance? Of course not, it is the crown's and you are expected to give it back in a certain condition, so the crown pays for the maintenance. Why is personal kit any different?



I don't know who told you that. I was a Patricia long before you, and we were never told BS like that. CUA was always for replacement of CFs (as Armyvern said, tailoring was covered by the base tailor shop). Field kit is exchangeable. Drycleaning is your own responsibility, except for kit like the sleeping bag, which is called back to supply for cleaning every so often.


----------



## RAMA (8 Nov 2005)

No matter what uniform you are in, If the soldier carries himself with decorm and has respect for himself and the CF he will set a good example for all to see. I have seen some scarry things in CF's and to tell you the truth I mysef have dragged myself out of a ditch or two in CF's

So yes Combats are Appropriate


----------



## geo (9 Nov 2005)

RAMA... what one does while in uniform is one thing but, before that even happens, you chose the uniform that will put the CF in it's best light.... project the best image.
(you can have sad sacks in both uniforms)

Given the way that Cadpat fades out differently between tops, bottoms and the ICE (for those who have em)... our day to day work uniform is good for that.... day to day work.

The DEU is a "dress" uniform. It is designed for and intended to present our soldiers at their best. If you are going out in town with the intention of being seen by the public - while you make a statement.... then the DEU is the uniform appropriate for the job...


----------



## midgetcop (9 Nov 2005)

IMHO the CADPAT looks impressive to civilians even if personally you think it looks grungy and faded. 

Of course the DEUs will dazzle on a more formal level, the CADPAT ultimately looks *cooler*....for lack of a better term.


----------



## Pea (12 Nov 2005)

I was reminded of this topic last night when I went out to a local bar.  First thing I noticed was a group of about 5 or 6 men/woman who were still in their deu's and a few in combats. They all seemed like they were having a good time, but some were pretty drunk. I agree they should have a great time, but some looked like complete idiots, and since they were in uniform (it being remembrance day and all) they made the CF look bad. A few friends of mine were making comments about how unprofessional our army is. I admit these friends are naive and haven't had much exposure to the military, but this definitely didn't help.


----------



## Britney Spears (12 Nov 2005)

> I was reminded of this topic last night when I went out to a local bar.  First thing I noticed was a group of about 5 or 6 men/woman who were still in their deu's and a few in combats. They all seemed like they were having a good time, but some were pretty drunk. I agree they should have a great time, but some looked like complete idiots, and since they were in uniform (it being remembrance day and all) they made the CF look bad. A few friends of mine were making comments about how unprofessional our army is. I admit these friends are naive and haven't had much exposure to the military, but this definitely didn't help.



You're not alone with these thoughts. When I first joined I had a few experiences with going to the town in DEUs, but I've since concluded that this is a terrible idea, for the reasons that you state. In addition, the damn things are a PITA to clean if you spill anything on them, and god forbid if you lose any of the dangly bits. The sight of young soldiers stumbling down the street in DEUs now makes me cringe. When I become CDS, I think that will be the first thing I ban.

In any case, I've moved on to more intellectual pursuits by now.


----------



## Pea (12 Nov 2005)

I found the worst part was that some of them weren't "new" soldiers. They were Cpl's and a Mcpl. So I couldn't just tell my friends they were newbies and that it was just them being proud. 

O-well. Some will do anything for a bit of attention it seems. (especially from the ladies.)


----------



## vanislerev (12 Nov 2005)

i dont see any harm in going to a pub and having ONE beer with a meal, but if your going to a bar or anywhere to drink, have some common sense and wear civilian attire


----------



## Pte_Martin (12 Nov 2005)

after every training night we go to the bar in uniform and have a few drink not enough to get smashed. I think it's good to go out sometimes in uniform *after training* A lot more people come up to you and ask you questions  about the Cf  it's a good way to get people who are interested but might be afraid to go to the recruiting centre to join up


----------



## GO!!! (12 Nov 2005)

I'll have to disagree with you guys on the Rememberance day uniform antics. It is a great opportunity to have a few with the vets, guys from your unit and the forces in general.

The uniform lends the opportunity to spot people and automatically creates a common thread of discussion and behaviour. I've had more opportunity to speak with vets due to the sparklies on my DEUs than any other single reason, and I'm better for it. The ladies love it too.

There is nothing wrong with going out with the boys and getting elegantly inebriated in DEUs - especially on the 11th, I earned everything on them, and I pay the cleaners!

Besides, if the army did'nt want it to happen, you would be told to take 'em off.


----------



## blacktriangle (12 Nov 2005)

We have had military folks at my school recently. Last year, a militia recruiter in combats, setup in my school at lunch. Yesterday, we had a commander from the navy (teacher at RMC) give a presentation for our rememberance day activities. On average, my friends were more interested in the soldier in combats, then the officer in DEU's- I liked them both, but that's because I felt each was interesting and informative. 

I think you have to realize that what might impress someone in a certain situation, may totally seem out of place in another.


----------



## RangerRay (12 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I'll have to disagree with you guys on the Rememberance day uniform antics. It is a great opportunity to have a few with the vets, guys from your unit and the forces in general.
> 
> The uniform lends the opportunity to spot people and automatically creates a common thread of discussion and behaviour. I've had more opportunity to speak with vets due to the sparklies on my DEUs than any other single reason, and I'm better for it. The ladies love it too.
> 
> ...



Ah yes...I remember many a Rememberance Day that started at 11:30 am at the JR's and ended at the bar...good fun had by all.  

DEUs are a scientifically proven chick-magnet.  ;D  Makes the ugliest of us attractive!    And as long as no one is completely bombed and you're with at least half-a-dozen mates, no one will bother you.


----------



## CdnArtyWife (13 Nov 2005)

Ah now the argument has, again, come full circle....re drinking while in uniform.

Guys and gals: Having a beer or two in comraderie after a parade, especially in effort to bond with a vet...is completely understandable, and acceptable, but keep it professional. Those who get "comfortably inebriated" and those who get "completely bombed" make the rest of you look bad. I read post after post of people bitching about how the general civilian Canadian population does not take you or your jobs seriously...this is just one of the reasons why. 

We can't cement our argument that we (as the CF) need more money for training, equipment, personnel, etc, into the minds of Canadians when we are out getting bombed in uniform. Perception is key here folks. If people see soldiers and officers out partying in uniform (in an attempt to lure the chicks to the magnet or otherwise) they will not take you seriously when you are sober and trying to convince them that what you do for a living is important.

I am a chick...I magnatize to the uniform...as I have alluded to in a previous post in this thread....but I DON'T get drawn to a guy who does not respect his job, or fellow soldiers. IMHO, when you get smackered while in uniform you tarnish everything it stands for...and that philosophically negates all the time you have spent shining those boots and cap badges. Its all about pride folks...if you have enough pride to wear the uniform, you should have enough respect for it to not abuse it (do your chick magnetizing in reasonable fashion, will ya?)


----------



## gate_guard (13 Nov 2005)

After viewing the antics of a number of new troops in my regiment this past Rememberance Day, I'm inclined to agree with CdnArtyWife. Having a few bevies has always been a tradition on Rememberance Day here in the lower mainland. And as much as I hate to say it, excessive consumption should IMO only take place in legion halls and military messes. I've committed many transgressions in the past while wearing the uniform so take this opinion with a grain of salt. Nonetheless the constant complaint regarding the public and the military has always centered around two caveats: 1) the public doesn't see enough of us and 2) the public doesn't give us enough support. So to reiterate what CdnArtyWife was saying, if the only time the public sees us is when we've seen the bottom of enough bottles to fill a duffle bag, what sort of impression are we leaving? Keeping this thread on course I will say I have no problem with wearing cadpat at public events so long as you haven't had deu's issued yet (a Reserve issue really). If it's a recruiting event, I say put on the cadpat, it looks slightly more badass. >


----------



## reccecrewman (13 Nov 2005)

Just my own opinion, but I've always been partial to the U.S Army's old WWII Dress Uniform.  The brown tunic, with a pair of well tailored & pressed tan pants with a service cap looks pretty sharp.  (Not to mention all the shiny bling that adorns a tunic and really grabs the eye)


----------



## GO!!! (13 Nov 2005)

CdnArtyWife said:
			
		

> Ah now the argument has, again, come full circle....re drinking while in uniform.
> 
> Guys and gals: Having a beer or two in comraderie after a parade, especially in effort to bond with a vet...is completely understandable, and acceptable, but keep it professional. Those who get "comfortably inebriated" and those who get "completely bombed" make the rest of you look bad. I read post after post of people bitching about how the general civilian Canadian population does not take you or your jobs seriously...this is just one of the reasons why.
> 
> ...



2 points.

First of all, consider the source. The people who will be out on Whyte ave in Edmonton will be at the bars with you. They are young, and the presence of uniforms only makes us more approachable and a "part" of the community, as opposed the starched, stiff necked types who have a tot of brandy and retire to the smoking room to discuss FLOCARK over Cubans. We are out integrating and demonstrating to the public that we ARE them. We represent them and they pay us for it. Taking our uniforms off tells the public that the army only exists on the base and on TV on the 11th. We must stay part of the community fabric if we are to stay in the public eye, and spread the good word. If someone gets hammered and falls down, oh well, mistakes happen, and if it that bad, the QR+Os make provision for that type of behaviour, both in, and out of uniform.

Second of all. (and I'll say this as nicely as possible) If you have never worn the uniform, or earned anything for it, you are supremely unqualified to tell me what is and is not appropriate to do in it. Your experiences as a military spouse are just that, and you should not assume that your husband's occupation gives you some special insight or knowledge into what I do or why. The military, and the cbt arms in paticular, have a long and proud tradition of drinking to celebrate special occasions whilst in uniform. Remembrance day, Mens X-mas dinners, regimental birthday, funerals etc. You are on the outside looking in, and the view can be distorting.


----------



## paracowboy (13 Nov 2005)

getting drunk in public while in uniform is stupid. 
Anyone who does so is stupid.
Anyone who sees this happen, does nothing, and then complains about public perception is stupid.

Stupidity like this is the reason many bases a few years ago frowned upon CF members going off-base while in uniform. Remember having to change into civvies to run uptown to do banking, then change back to go back to work? Remember complaining about it?
This is why.

Young soldiers, like young people everywhere are dumb. They do dumb things. They get drunk and do dumb things with greaer frequency. It's funny to watch dumb people do dumb things. However, when they do it uniform the public sees it, and thinks every soldier everywhere is dumb.
And then they complain that the public would rather spend money on health care than national defence, and can't understand why.
Which goes to prove that they are, in fact, dumb.


----------



## Pte_Martin (13 Nov 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> getting drunk in public while in uniform is stupid.
> Anyone who does so is stupid.
> Anyone who sees this happen, does nothing, and then complains about public perception is stupid.
> 
> ...



I'm Young and i never have got drunk and stupid in uniform maybe you should change it to. Some young soldiers


----------



## Fishbone Jones (13 Nov 2005)

CPL,

Don't be so sensitive. He didn't say "Young soldiers, like *ALL* young people everywhere are dumb. They do dumb things". He just meant everywhere there are young people, there are some dumb ones............ Just like where there's old ones.


----------



## paracowboy (13 Nov 2005)

CPL said:
			
		

> I'm Young and i never have got drunk and stupid in uniform maybe you should change it to. Some young soldiers


Young soldiers, like young people everywhere, believe that the world revolves around them, and that every reference relates directly to them specifically.


----------



## GO!!! (13 Nov 2005)

You will remember that paracowboy was born "old", as a result was never "young", or "dumb".

see the seventh pic from the top http://www.photo.net/bboard/nw-fetch-msg?msg_id=008sCA

for his baby pic.


----------



## paracowboy (13 Nov 2005)

au contraire, teddy bear. paracowboy was once young and dumb. In fact, he was a very bad young man, who grew into the sort of man who knows exactly how dumb young men can be. He knows what young men full of alcohol can and will do, and he knows that they should not be given the opportunity to do it while in uniform.

He also knows, from first hand experience, how difficult escape and evasion is when decked out in DEU1A. Had he been inebriated, rather than merely accompanying inebriated young men in uniform, he most likely would have been entirely unsuccessful in his attempt. 

Had he been wearing cadpat, with it's disruptive pattern, lack of sparkly crap, and freer movement, E&E would have been a breeze. Not to mention the lack of traction found when wearing 'clickers' on ankle boots.


----------



## CdnArtyWife (13 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Second of all. (and I'll say this as nicely as possible) If you have never worn the uniform, or earned anything for it, you are supremely unqualified to tell me what is and is not appropriate to do in it. Your experiences as a military spouse are just that, and you should not assume that your husband's occupation gives you some special insight or knowledge into what I do or why.


I don't claim to do that. I am telling you what an outside person looking in sees. Unprofessionalism. Like I said prior, it is all about perception. I know that the majority of CF members are very professional. It is ashame that "a few bad apples" can ruin that perception in the public eye.



			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> The military, and the cbt arms in paticular, have a long and proud tradition of drinking to celebrate special occasions whilst in uniform. Remembrance day, Mens X-mas dinners, regimental birthday, funerals etc. You are on the outside looking in, and the view can be distorting.



This is what the Legion and mess are for. You wanna get $h!tfaced. Go ahead, no one will stop you. I will go out on a limb and say that I am not the only one that feels that the more appropriate place for that behavior is the mess...traditions are great, mess dinners are just that...but leave the excessive use of alcohol while in uniform in the mess, where people wont make blanket statements about your career or those who work with you. 

I may be looking in from the outside, I may not wear the uniform, but that does not mean I can't be proud of what my husband or those he works with does for a living. Pardon me for having pride in what you do, GO!! I just don't want to see a few people ruin the image for others. You all fight too hard to stand back and let that happen. But sometimes you need to put yourself in the "outside" shoes and think about how it looks to others. You don't always have to agree with it, but the perspective can _sometimes_ be eye opening.


----------



## GO!!! (13 Nov 2005)

I refuse to live my life worrying about what "other people may think".

You are right though, there is a time and place for this type of thing. It's the evening of Nov 11, the mens x-mas dinner, the regimental b-day and the place is wherever the wind takes me. We are all big boys, and will reap what we sow if someone acts up. 

So until there is a rule against having a few drinks with the guys I work with in our work uniform...


----------



## Britney Spears (14 Nov 2005)

> I refuse to live my life worrying about what "other people may think".



I live exactly the same way. Except that pesky Sergent Major fellow keeps mucking things up for me.....

Point being that when you're in uniform, me and the rest of the gang sort of have a stake in your behaviour too. 


(Of course not YOU in particular, but you know what I mean....)


----------



## paracowboy (14 Nov 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Point being that when you're in uniform, me and the rest of the gang sort of have a stake in your behaviour too.


exactly. You, of all people, who mention on every second thread how badly fat troops make the entire CF look should be able to appreciate that.


----------



## GO!!! (14 Nov 2005)

On that subject, I saw some rather rotund individuals at the....never mind


----------



## RangerRay (14 Nov 2005)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> Just my own opinion, but I've always been partial to the U.S Army's old WWII Dress Uniform.   The brown tunic, with a pair of well tailored & pressed tan pants with a service cap looks pretty sharp.   (Not to mention all the shiny bling that adorns a tunic and really grabs the eye)



I'm more partial to the pre-unification Canadian Army dress uniforms...


----------



## geo (14 Nov 2005)

Rangerray...
Have worn those preunification uniforms
Battledress
Bush
TW (TDubs)
Patrol Blues

TWs looked great but they'd wrinkle like hell as soon as you got em on
Blues.... beautiful uniform - everyone should still wear em
Bush - OK... though that flat top hat was a bit of a pain.
Battledress... the older the better....the old RQ did me a favor when he gave me the top & bottoms from an old timer who was clearing out.... let him get the bugs out.

Nah.... the new uniforms are ok


----------



## kommando17 (15 Nov 2005)

When i see a soldier, in uniform. It says to me that guy/girl is proud of him/herself, and proud, of his/her country. I have tremedous amount for respect of the ppl, in the CF. I can't wait to get into that uniform soon enough. Till then thanks lads, and lassies for defending   at all costs


----------



## GO!!! (15 Nov 2005)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> I'm more partial to the pre-unification Canadian Army dress uniforms...



YES! 

We should go all the way back, puttees and pithe helmets!

"First rank prone, second rank kneeling, third and fourth ranks standing, Sergeants to the corners, officers in the middle, form square, MARCH!"


----------



## geo (15 Nov 2005)

Puttees?
Yikes.... NO GO!!!!!


----------



## RangerRay (17 Nov 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> YES!
> 
> We should go all the way back, puttees and pithe helmets!
> 
> "First rank prone, second rank kneeling, third and fourth ranks standing, Sergeants to the corners, officers in the middle, form square, MARCH!"



Haha!

To clarify, I just meant the dress uniforms, not the battle dress!


----------



## LordVagabond (27 Nov 2005)

I'm going to have to weigh in on this entire thread, and yes, I know... THREAD RESSURECTION!!!  >

Anyways, I was on the bus here in Calgary heading down to Mount Royal College to watch my buddy play some volleyball (U of C Dinos vs MRC Cougars), and at one stop a CF MCpl got on in combats, paid his fare, and as SOON as he turned to walk to a seat, out of nowhere, the entire bus applauded. I swear the guy nearly cried, just from the outpouring of support. 

The forces are well loved in Calgary. Show up in your CADPAT here without worry. Hell, we have an entire section of the city where the streets are named after famous WWI and WWII battle sites (Walcharen Road, Vimy Ridge Way, etc) and we have two academies that are named after areas in WWII (Juno Beach Academy being one).

So, what I'm getting at is yes, CADPAT is appropriate for public wearing, because we Calgarians are proud to have a military, so much so that even I, the lowly civilian   have handed in my application for the Armored Corps (or, failing that, the Infantry) as an officer     

And, once more for good measure...


----------



## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2005)

> a CF MCpl got on in combats, paid his fare, and as SOON as he turned to walk to a seat, out of nowhere, the entire bus applauded. I swear the guy nearly cried, just from the outpouring of support.



Reminds me of the time a jet had to wait for some of us soldiers and when we finally got on everyone clapped  :dontpanic:


----------



## Guy. E (28 Nov 2005)

someone said that the likes the WW2 US Dress uniform..., I actually like the WW2 German officers dress uniform. the Black, Grey and little red trim looks just great i think.

i lived in Brandon Mb, (recently moved   a little south of brandon last year) but that being said, CFB Shilo is very close. its not unusual for me to see someone in they're Cadpat's (?). just as well when the Germans were here it wasn't an unusual sight to see the odd one of them in uniform. 

i believe that the Cadpats are just fine for going to get groceries or pick up the kids after work. waring your DEUs would be over kill for something like that. however i think that whenever you travel nationally or internationally on the govt $ you should be in your DEUs. it just looks that much more professional.

i ware my dads old Garrison (sp) jacket all of the time in the summer. once i wore it to a cadet function and i was told to remvoe the chevrons, crossed rifles and mechanics crest, etc... i have an actual Airfarce chicken cannon badge sewn on to the left shoulder and a Maltese cross/ Iron Cross/ whatever else its called on the left Brest above the pocket. no body believes me that it was a Canadian issue uniform... they all say its American... whatever.

oh, i also think that the "Tans" are one of the sharpest looking Can' uniforms made. 

all thats just speeking of the green uniforms. not the AF or Navy DEUs.

but hey thats just my opinion, but what do i know? Ive just been waiting 2 years to get in to one aspect of the forces or another.


----------



## Pte_Martin (28 Nov 2005)

Guy. E said:
			
		

> \
> i ware my dads old Garrison (sp) jacket all of the time in the summer. once i wore it to a cadet function and i was told to remvoe the chevrons, crossed rifles and mechanics crest, etc



As a cadet you should have known that wearing someone else jacket with rank and qualifications on isn't right. WHy would your dad let you wear part of his uniform anyway?


----------



## Guy. E (28 Nov 2005)

... because it was no longer in issue, and hadn't been for SEVERAL years....
... i was an lac at the time and thought it would be cool, i removed the rank and badges as asked/ required...
... because i wanted something more to ware on our little "Exercises" then the standard old combats you could buy at any surplus store...

yea, thats basically it.


----------



## geo (28 Nov 2005)

piper... wearing the Garrison jacket is not the problem
it the trooping around with someone else's ranks & trade without having qualified for them.
I would not wear my Gramps medals or rank... and should not wear the other shiny stuff either.


----------



## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2005)

Kinda hard to mistake an army cadet for a warrant from the RCR with jump wings etc..

You see homeless people and punks/students and "rebels" with surplus stuff with patches and ranks on it all the time. Not much of a big deal if you ask me.


----------



## Pte_Martin (28 Nov 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Kinda hard to mistake an army cadet for a warrant from the RCR with jump wings etc..
> 
> You see homeless people and punks/students and "rebels" with surplus stuff with patches and ranks on it all the time. Not much of a big deal if you ask me.



i agree there is nothing you can do about it but if your a cadet or you know what your wearing why wear it? To impress people?


----------



## Jarnhamar (29 Nov 2005)

> i agree there is nothing you can do about it but if your a cadet or you know what your wearing why wear it? To impress people?



Of course.   
People who wear military uniforms, spike their hair, have all kinds of piercings in their face, wear bush is a devil t-shirts, spend $70 on a shirt that has as much material as a pair of socks etc..     People do it because they feel it somehow represents them. We notice this more because were int he military, we see a kid all decked out in combat regalia and we think, loser, but to everyone else it's just yet one more person wearing something to get noticed.

Do a search, we had a good thread about someone or another wearing a units t-shirt when they didn't "earn" it. All us younger guys were up in arms "lets tear it off them rwar" and the more experienced   (notice i'm avoiding saying older?  ) of us wisely said BFD.   And they were right. Who cares.

What gets me the most isn't guys wearing cadpat in public or army cadets wearing their fathers coats - it's the guys who feel the need to talk about section attacks, killing the enemy, throwing grenades around, getting cock from the sergeant swearing their face off infront of kids   and laughing about grusome pictures of suicide attacks found on the net.   'Duh did you see the picture of that guys face in the bucket?'

Someone hearing that trash is 500 times worse than seeing someone on the bus in uniform or buying a coke.


----------



## Guy. E (29 Nov 2005)

no one here thinks it could be a matter of pride?


----------



## Daidalous (30 Nov 2005)

I have no problem with anyone going into a surplus store and buying OD green  combats or DEU clothing that was legally sold by the military.  What gets my goat is when you see someone walking down the street in cadpat pants.


----------



## Shadowhawk (1 Dec 2005)

Daidalous said:
			
		

> I have no problem with anyone going into a surplus store and buying OD green  combats or DEU clothing that was legally sold by the military.  What gets my goat is when you see someone walking down the street in cadpat pants.



Unfortunately ... even CADPAT is now being sold surplus. (something I don't agree with, they should not be sold as surplus until they are no longer being issued)

Just MHO.

Cheers


----------



## Daidalous (1 Dec 2005)

Cadpat should not sold as surplus, it is illegal for DND to sell Cadpat even to authorized buyers. It is considered controlled technology and shall be shredded to a point where it is not possible to return it to operational state or burning.  Any Cadpat you see in a surplus store is stolen property of the Crown, or is a knock off. So says the ALM-007


----------



## armyvern (1 Dec 2005)

OK,

This topic has been discussed on countless threads ad nauseum. We have already determined that the cadpat (99% of it) being sold downtown is NOT the same cadpat that is issued to our soldiers and those regulations/laws/rules have been published on threads here. The stuff (99%) being sold differs in someway and the material is not authentic. That which is the actual CF issued item is illegal to sell or posess as it is a controlled technology item and when they get caught selling/buying it...they get investigated/charged etc. Enough already.

There are lots of look alikes that are NOT authentic. This is not criminal....
Only the authentic CF issued made cadpat (made with the authentic technologically enhanced material) is illegal to sell/posess.

*This thread is about whether or not is more appropriate for SOLDIERS to wear cadpat to community relations events/activities or DEUs.*
Can we please get rid of the hijack and get back on topic?? Thanks.


----------



## LordVagabond (2 Dec 2005)

In a nutshell, yes, I believe that a soldier should be fully allowed to wear their CADPAT to public events. They are as much a citizen as Canada as any one else, and business people wear shirts and ties to events, mascot people wear silly outfits at sporting events. What I'm getting at is that the "working clothes" of a soldier should be acceptable anywhere, just as everyone elses "Working clothes" are.


----------



## buzgo (2 Dec 2005)

How about a mechanic's clothes? A house painter? Highway construction worker? Policeman?

I wouldn't want to see a cop getting drunk in uniform, just like I wouldn't want to sit down in a restaurant next to a guy covered in asphalt, tar, grease or paint.

If it is an approved for CADPAT event (football game, hockey game etc) then it is okay, but all other times are not okay. It is not the same as a shirt and tie (that would be DEU) and its not the same as a mascot outfit (is CADPAT a silly outfit?!)


----------



## Fraser.g (2 Dec 2005)

IMHO the short answer is Yes, CADPAT should be marching out dress in public.

In responce to the post by signals guy, No one should be out drunk in public in ANY uniform. You are the Representative of the queen and Canada when you are in that outfit and should act as such when you wear it.

We are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population as are the police, fire and other emergency and law enforcement professions. With that said I believe it is imperative for the CF to be more "in the face" of Joe civi. Let him and her know that we are there and simply by our presence in their midst remind them that we are there to protect them and the country that they call home.

In the past several decades there has been an overwhelming consensus to "keep a low profile" and to "not cause waves" when it comes to our existence off of a CF Base. Then we wonder why the do not register on the public polls on national concerns.

In conclusion,
 Wear the uniform with pride and correctly at all times in public,
 do not get overtly drunk,
 do not drink and drive,
 be cautious to ALL Civilians you encounter,
 behave as if the RSM was sitting at your elbow,
 interact with the population, let them know that you are not some a- hole and a regular person with an extra ordinary job.


GF


----------



## Acorn (4 Dec 2005)

I'm still trying to fathom wearing the Garrison jacket for the LCF..... ???


----------



## geo (5 Dec 2005)

Garrison??.... it's a dead uniform.

Am baffled that individuals want to go out on the town in CADPAT.

Regardless of what is said, they go out, get drunk, get into trouble and the CF gets a black eye for their trouble!!!!!

Every day I get to see reports coming in with respect to Military members from LFQA having done this or having done that.... wearing cadpat is like a lightning rod for trouble!

OK - rant over


----------



## dutchie (5 Dec 2005)

DEUs are fine for Nov 11, Mess Dinner, etc. Go out, hit the bars and have fun, but if you step on your dick, don't cry and moan about the severity of the punishment. 

If you want to go out after parade (for you Res types like me)   - beware. Coming from personal experience, you can get in a whole lotta trouble very very quickly (and I'm not even talking about the legal kind of trouble). What are you gonna do when some drunk arsehole picks a fight woth you? Beat the snot out of him? Refuse to fight and get the snot kicked out of yourself? It's a no-win situation. 

Do you need CADPAT to pick up chicks? 

Edit for spelling.


----------



## GO!!! (5 Dec 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Every day I get to see reports coming in with respect to Military members from LFQA having done this or having done that.... wearing cadpat is like a lightning rod for trouble!



Would that be the Quebec city chapter of the 'ells Angels?

*sniff* that sort of nonsense doe'snt happen out here with the law - abiding Patricia folk.  ;D


----------



## geo (6 Dec 2005)

Sure it doesn't GO!!!!!


----------



## Arctic Acorn (6 Dec 2005)

This comment is kinda off-topic, but I find it interesting that folks would rather go out to a bar after work rather than spend some time in the mess. You pay for it via mess dues, you can drink with your peers in uniform, and the beer is cheaper. After work a few folks will almost always go out for a few, but we almost always stop in the mess for a pint before going home and getting changed into civvies. 

Does anyone use their messes anymore?


----------



## Pte_Martin (6 Dec 2005)

our unit uses our mess, we go for a couple in our mess then we go out


----------



## armyvern (7 Dec 2005)

We also have a huge percentage of married service couples these days. With a mixture of marriages between Offs/Sr NCO, Offs/Jr Ranks, Jr Ranks/Sr NCO. Why go to a mess when your spouse can't come in with you to a function, or a Yuk Yuks or a whatever.


----------



## Shadowhawk (8 Dec 2005)

This is off topic but ....

If 203 people took the poll .... how can there be a 102 each tie?

Just asking is all. ;D


----------



## GO!!! (8 Dec 2005)

Messes are an outdated form of amusement.

With the advent of the base/garrison messes, all of the esprit de corps was removed, and the messes became little more than inefficient, early closing bars. They all seem to be run by francophone former navy stewards, who have no desire to add new products, drinks, events or members. 

Really, who wants to go to a well lit bar, with quiet 80s music, no girls, no fun and closes at midnight? Just because we pay for it does'nt make it fun, or a worthwhile enterprise.

IMHO, the messes should be allowed to die if they cannot support themselves without mess dues. I have better uses for my $8.00 per month.


----------



## silentbutdeadly (8 Dec 2005)

Sh*t try the Sgt/Wo mess the mafia hits us for $16 and we have to go ! old people holding on to old things !


----------



## Shadowhawk (8 Dec 2005)

Shadowhawk said:
			
		

> This is off topic but ....
> 
> If 203 people took the poll .... how can there be a 102 each tie?
> 
> Just asking is all. ;D



and the numbers have changed ... thanks for your support ;D


----------



## canadianblue (11 Dec 2005)

I just finished BMQ and thought about wearing my dress uniform to church for a Christmas Eve service. Personally I don't have an issue with soldiers going out in uniform in a normal day, and maybe tipping down a beer or two. As long as its professional and presents a good image of the CF.


----------



## Pte_Martin (11 Dec 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Messes are an outdated form of amusement.
> 
> With the advent of the base/garrison messes, all of the esprit de corps was removed, and the messes became little more than inefficient, early closing bars. They all seem to be run by francophone former navy stewards, who have no desire to add new products, drinks, events or members.
> 
> ...



I agree with what's said, that's why right now before my reg force transfer I'm hitting our mess, it's cheap beer, and we run it so it's open the hours we want and we have lots of parties there when we want.
The only thing i hate is before we had Flags and other things we "acquired" overseas but we had to take them down because of a fire hazard. Oh well rules are rules


----------



## Naralis (12 Dec 2005)

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> I just finished BMQ and thought about wearing my dress uniform to church for a Christmas Eve service. Personally I don't have an issue with soldiers going out in uniform in a normal day, and maybe tipping down a beer or two. As long as its professional and presents a good image of the CF.


If you decide to do this, please ask your CoC of command first. You might not have an issue with it, but your commanders might. Especially for a recruit fresh off of BMQ. When I had completed BMQ, I wanted to get dressed in uniform to escort a vet around a mock UN conference, but there was a whole lot of red tape to go through. Decided it was better to go in civies in the end.


----------



## Gunnerlove (12 Dec 2005)

As a reservist the worst thing that can happen to a unit is a combined Mess. How can you bond with your fellow troops or throw a party with the CO sitting in the corner? Naked beer sliding? not going to happen in a combined mess.


----------



## geo (12 Dec 2005)

Gunner.... 
The officers have to contend with the CO and the Sr NCOs have the RSM

all in all.... not sure who has the short end of the stick.... and this is as a former RSM myself. Sharing a mess with several units isn't no bed of roses either... Combine a Cbt arms unit with a Log, medical or Comms unit and you have pecking order headaches galore.... you have "it's my mess, not your mess... if you're not happy get out" kneejerk reactions.

Have had some experience with combined messes..... They can work... you just have to work at it.

Remember - Subbies are to be seen - not heard.


----------



## GDawg (26 Aug 2009)

Acorn said:
			
		

> I don't know who told you that. I was a Patricia long before you, and we were never told BS like that. CUA was always for replacement of CFs (as Armyvern said, tailoring was covered by the base tailor shop). Field kit is exchangeable. Drycleaning is your own responsibility, except for kit like the sleeping bag, which is called back to supply for cleaning every so often.



Necropost here. This may very well warrant an independent topic in its own right.

I asked at my local ASU about bringing in my sleeping bags to be dry cleaned and they said "We don't do that, that's why you have a liner" and "Dry cleaning is at your own expense"

Now, from my previous experience else where, the CF does indeed cover this service through the local clothing stores section. 

I do not have a copy of it in front of me, but I searched the CF Supply Manual and it backs up my claim that the CF does indeed provide laundering service for sleeping bags.

I am wondering, is the CFSM wrong? 

If the supply tech I spoke with is out to lunch, how to I remedy this situation?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (26 Aug 2009)

Ask for the I/C of clothing would be my suggestion......


----------



## BinRat55 (26 Aug 2009)

No, someone there is OTL. If they won't dryclean, just ask for an exchange. One for one. You are not responsible for the drycleaning bill.


----------



## PuckChaser (26 Aug 2009)

My unit does a bulk dry cleaning once a year for sleeping bags, usually gone about 2 weeks and they come back smelling pretty.....


----------



## armyvern (26 Aug 2009)

GDawg said:
			
		

> Necropost here. This may very well warrant an independent topic in its own right.
> 
> I asked at my local ASU about bringing in my sleeping bags to be dry cleaned and they said "We don't do that, that's why you have a liner" and "Dry cleaning is at your own expense"
> 
> ...



No one is out to lunch.

We provide you with a liner that you are to wash.

Dependant upon the base and how it contracts it's dry-cleaning ... is what your answer rides upon.

Some bases (not Gagetown) have a centralized dry-cleaning contract - others do not.

If your location has a centralized SOA for dry-cleaning, then "usually" 2nd line Supply (thus clothing stores) will dry clean your bag for you.

Most bases however have devolved that funding out to the 1st line Units - as Gagetown has done. That means, we SA'd (transferred) the money to Unit budgets for dry-cleaning from ours. Your Unit goes to the field, then you turn your bag into your Unit QM for dry-cleaning.

In Gagetown, each field Unit QM is responsible to dry-clean the bags. BFoods is responsible to dry clean their cooks' whites. The BHosp is resp to dry-clean their own gowns etc.

Clothing Stores only dry cleans items being turned in to go back into stock. So, for the one who suggested that you turn in your bag and ask for a new one ... that won't happen unless something is wrong with the sleeping bag you already have; if it's still serviceable they aren't going to just exchange it for you to have a dry-cleaned one ... take it to your Unit QM for that (as it would seem that your local ASU has the same policy in effect).

So, the CFSM is correct. The CF certainly does provide for and pay for this service; the CF does - but that doesn't mean that Base Supply (ie Clothing or the MSA) controls/handles it. That would depend upon the local SOA.


----------



## armyvern (26 Aug 2009)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> No, someone there is OTL. If they won't dryclean, just ask for an exchange. One for one. You are not responsible for the drycleaning bill.



Suggest that you dial 2569 ... and tell them that.  >

Get back to me with her response!!

(Or get Brian to email you the links to the CGSOs, Br SOs and the CSOs).


----------



## ruckmarch (26 Aug 2009)

I'll have to vote for the DEU for public functions/events. It's a lot smarter, and it's kind of like our business suit so to speak.

For some of the reasons already mentioned above about how "look-alike" cadpat can be bought online, it kind of makes it hard for the average mr/mrs bloggins on the street to distinguish

Oh...just want to mention that there is always the LEGION, for having a good time. I was at one on the weekend and they had a half decent band in there jamming


----------



## GDawg (26 Aug 2009)

I'm on the BTL, so I figure if the ASU/ASG won't do it, its now up to me...


----------



## FDO (26 Aug 2009)

In recruiting we find CADPAT is better for events. People identify with that after all the TV coverage. They also identify the Navy with Whites. So for most public events that's how we dress. That being said nothing looks worse than a CADPAT uniform that has a really faded bottom and a brand new top or other way around. Also look how most CADPAT is worn, the butt, back and thighs. Looks like they either sit around all day or wipe their hands on their pant legs. Looks bad all around   regardless of the ironing issues from riding a bus.


----------



## aesop081 (26 Aug 2009)

ruckmarch said:
			
		

> I'll have to vote for the DEU for public functions/events.



What kind of public events ?

I seem to do just fine around the public at airshows without being in DEUs.


----------



## Smity199 (26 Aug 2009)

Just wondering are you allowed to wear your dress uniform when you get married?


----------



## aesop081 (26 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> Just wondering are you allowed to wear your dress uniform when you get married?



Lots of people do it.


----------



## Haggis (26 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> Just wondering are you allowed to wear your dress uniform when you get married?



Yes, but there are two things to consider:

1. ask your chain of command for permission (best way to get permission is to invite your CO, OC, RSM or CSM to the ceremony).

2. make sure your prospective spouse doesn't outrank you at the wedding, because she certainly will afterwards!


----------



## FDO (26 Aug 2009)

Events like schools, CNE, employment centres etc. However we make sure the CADPAT is in good repair. I see a lot of the people coming out of the ASU with CADPAT looking shabby. If your going out in public then you should portray a high standard of dress. The excuse "everyone else is in jeans and t-shirts" doesn't cut it. It's the old "if they jumped off a bridge then would you" come back. We need to show a standard of professionalism above the norm because we are above the norm. Recruiting events are different. CADPAT is an attractor. It brings people in to talk about your experiences and think about it form themselves.


----------



## ruckmarch (26 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> Just wondering are you allowed to wear your dress uniform when you get married?



I believe so....I know a few Navy guys that got married in their Dress outfit.

To the recruiter person above.....yes recruitment centre staff wear cadpats, but on swearing-in days, it's DEUs from what have seen.


----------



## ruckmarch (26 Aug 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> Events like schools, CNE, employment centres etc. However we make sure the CADPAT is in good repair. I see a lot of the people coming out of the ASU with CADPAT looking shabby. If your going out in public then you should portray a high standard of dress. The excuse "everyone else is in jeans and t-shirts" doesn't cut it. It's the old "if they jumped off a bridge then would you" come back. We need to show a standard of professionalism above the norm because we are above the norm. Recruiting events are different. CADPAT is an attractor. It brings people in to talk about your experiences and think about it form themselves.



Touche'.....well put


----------



## FDO (26 Aug 2009)

In the Centre when we have to deal with the public in a formal setting like enrolments the staff wear DEUs. The front desk staff also wear DEUs as do the Career Counsellors. This is because it's more formal in these circumstances. We don't have to attract anyone they're already there.


----------



## Jarnhamar (26 Aug 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> That being said nothing looks worse than a CADPAT uniform that has a really faded bottom and a brand new top or other way around.



Anytime I've went to clothing to get a new uniform because mine is faded and mismatched I get laughed at.
"Well just find a faded top to go with your bottoms,or wash the top more HA HA HA HA"

Soldiers are faced with either willfully destroying CF property (ie slash the combats) which of course none of us do, OR, playing the not from your platoon 2IC game.
"Please give so and so a new pair of pants because he looks like shit" which is followed by the clothing higher ups barking at the poor cpl following orders.

The two colour combat problem is because of different kinds of materials being used for the tops and bottoms or different 'years' of uniform manufacture. If you have set of pants made a while ago and a newer shit, the materal from the former fads much faster.


----------



## Smity199 (26 Aug 2009)

ruckmarch said:
			
		

> I believe so....I know a few Navy guys that got married in their Dress outfit.
> 
> To the recruiter person above.....yes recruitment centre staff wear cadpats, but on swearing-in days, it's DEUs from what have seen.



When I was sworn in only the CO was wearing DEU, the front desk people and career counsellors were all wearing CADPATS like usual, they didnt even come out to observe the ceremony, but I dont blame them they are probably really busy


----------



## FDO (26 Aug 2009)

What other Centres do is outside my control. My CO has said we do it this way. Cool ting about being CO you can make rules like that and everyone follows them. Oh it's good to be king!!


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Anytime I've went to clothing to get a new uniform because mine is faded and mismatched I get laughed at.
> "Well just find a faded top to go with your bottoms,or wash the top more HA HA HA HA"
> 
> Soldiers are faced with either willfully destroying CF property (ie slash the combats) which of course none of us do, OR, playing the not from your platoon 2IC game.
> ...



Too true, different lots and batch numbers fade at different rates - even the recently manufactured stuff. Brand new pants and shirts issued on the very same day may match (or mostly, even they are different in colour shading!! That happens when there's a couple sub-contractors making pants and a couple of other sub-contractors making the shirts) when you leave clothing with them, but 10 washes later and they don't match anymore.

There is a message on "fading" which direct that cadpat can only be exchanged (for fading) once they've reached a 50% 'fade rate'. When this message came out, I found some of my staff would exchange and others would not - the "50%" call being an ambigious number. I hung a faded set of cadpat on a clothes hanger up front and right behind the front counter wth a sign that reads:  "When your cadpat gets this faded, we can exchang it for you." There's also a copy of the message posted beside it if any of the customers should have any issues with that. That set of cadpat hangs there to this day. If any of the staff wonder if a customers cadpat has reached the allowable level of 'fade' they simply hold the customers uniform up next to the set hanging there. So, at least we have a 'standard' to enforce when otherwise it would be purely a judgment call based on "50%" - with each tech working the counter making a personal decision that essentially relates into "no standard".

We once had an outgoing CO of a Unit send a whole platoon down to clothing who had given them a directive that "they each exchange a set of cadpat and obtain a brand new set for the CoC parade". The troops called me out to the front counter --- I spoke with the Pl Comd and refused (politely) to do the exchanges as the uniforms they reported with were perfectly fine and nowhere near to an 80% level of fade let alone the "minimum 50%" level that our directives lay out for us. The complaints happened. The Comd put his foot down and pointed out that cadpat were considered and brought into service as the Army's "field uniform" and not it's parade uniform - that was DEU if the CO wanted everyone "looking perfect and brand new". No exchanges occured.


As an aside: Most troops, in my experience, coming in for cadpat issues/exchanges actually ask for "used stuff" instead of new stuff ... as none of them want to be the guy who seems to be "the newbie with no TI in the field".

Another aside: "Fade" and "Wear" are two totally diffrent things. If your thighs, ass, whatever is suffereing "wear" (thus I can tell what colour underwear you have on etc), but the colouring is still 99% there ... they are exchangeable.


----------



## Smity199 (27 Aug 2009)

It seems a shame that with all the money spent on uniforms that there are still serious problems like this.. the whole point of issued uniforms is so that everyone looks the same and 'uniform'. With different tops and bottoms all at different colors and shades of fading after the first couple of years youd think something would be done to correct the problem long term.. is it just the CADPATs that fade like this or do other militarys uniforms also have the same flaw??


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Aug 2009)

Awesome post Armyvern, I love having you on army.ca thank you.


----------



## aesop081 (27 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> flaw??



All textiles fade. There have been problems with batches fading prematurely but unless you always wear the same top& bottom together and wash them together , etc.... you will have garments that fade differently by some measure.

I wear one-peice flightsuits and they fade pretty much uniformly. That being said, some areas stay the original colour better since they are not exposed to as much wear and sunlight, etc...


----------



## FDO (27 Aug 2009)

I can see the flightsuit not fading. Not much sunlight in a hotel lounge!


----------



## aesop081 (27 Aug 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> I can see the flightsuit not fading. Not much sunlight in a hotel lounge!



Psssst......why would i be wearing my flightsuit in the hotel longe ?


----------



## FDO (27 Aug 2009)

Civvies being dry cleaned!!?


----------



## Rowshambow (27 Aug 2009)

...or you're trying to pick up chicks wearing your "I am a pilot, therfore cooler than thou" uniform! haha


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> Civvies being dry cleaned!!?



No one mentioned "civvies being drycleaned" - especially not at Crown expense. So I'm not sure where your comment is coming from.

Cooks whites/aprons & medical smocks/lab coats etc are part of their "uniforms" (usuallu worn over their cadpat etc); those item are issued by the CF.


----------



## aesop081 (27 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> No one mentioned "civvies being drycleaned" - especially not at Crown expense. So I'm not sure where your comment is coming from.



Read the few posts that preceed it.


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> It seems a shame that with all the money spent on uniforms that there are still serious problems like this.. the whole point of issued uniforms is so that everyone looks the same and 'uniform'. With different tops and bottoms all at different colors and shades of fading after the first couple of years youd think something would be done to correct the problem long term.. is it just the CADPATs that fade like this or do other militarys uniforms also have the same flaw??



Ever try dying an easter egg. Use the exact same dye on the very same egg ... but if that dye stays on the egg for 1.2 seconds longer in one spot than on another spot of the egg --- you'll have a different shade in the end.

Now try having "multiple" 'subcontractors' of the actual contractor (some maing our pants - others making our shirts) using even the exact same batch of dye (highly unlikely) in the exact same kind of vat, but some shirts stay in the vat for 5 seconds longer than the others ... guess what happens? Even were the all to remain "in the vat" for the exact same time period (down to the second) - the enviornmental temperatures within the company are different (different room temps etc) and all can have an effect on the final product.

All "pat" pattern uniforms from all militaries suffer from this issue. The problem with uneven fading is simply "more pronounced" with multi-coloured uniforms than with uni-coloured uniforms.


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Read the few posts that preceed it.



I did; I'm still at aloss though.

I see a discussion about you hawt aircrew types wearing your chick-magnet civ attire in your 5 star hotels ... but no discussion aout us dry-cleaning them for you.  :-\

Alors, j'ai mal à la tête ...  8)


----------



## PMedMoe (27 Aug 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Psssst......why would i be wearing my flightsuit in the hotel longe ?



Vern, see this post?  That's the reason for the dry-cleaning civvies post.   

I have a question regarding uniforms.  Does anyone know if ball caps are authorized for Naval work dress?  I saw a girl today in black pants, postal blue shirt and a ball cap.  In Kingston, if anyone cares.  Not sure if it was NCDs but I doubt it.


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Vern, see this post?  That's the reason for the dry-cleaning civvies post.
> 
> I have a question regarding uniforms.  Does anyone know if ball caps are authorized for Naval work dress?  I saw a girl today in black pants, postal blue shirt and a ball cap.  In Kingston, if anyone cares.  Not sure if it was NCDs but I doubt it.



Actually, I discussed this with the C1 who lives across the hall from me over a couple of beers last night. He did state that a message had just been cut which authorized the ballcap as daily headdress for wear with NCDs - regardless of posting.

Haven`t seen the message; am not at clothing nor am I the MPO any longer, and I don`t have access to the DIN at the moment to access the messages; ergo, I can't state for sure what is "officially authorized" (but based on our conversation & your sighting - it would _seem_ to be).


----------



## kratz (27 Aug 2009)

Moe / Vern,

This dress item was discussed in the Navy threads: The current navy uniform

I have not seen the message yet either, but in the discussion a copy and paste of the reference reads:

MARGEN 34/09(Unclass):
".....THE NAVY BLACK UNIT BALLCAP (RED FOR SEA TRAINING) MAY NOW BE WORN AS AN ALTERNATIVE, OPTIONAL ITEM WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS ASHORE OR ANYWHERE THAT NCDS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR.  THE ONLY MARKINGS AUTHORIZED ARE ON THE FRONT PANEL OF THE CAP AND THEY REMAIN THE UNITS NAME AND DESIGNATOR WITH SIDE NUMBERS AS APPLICABLE.
2. THIS POLICY APPLIES TO ALL UNITS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED BY MARCOM TO ISSUE BALLCAPS FOR WEAR WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS...."


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Awesome post Armyvern, I love having you on army.ca thank you.



Awww, vous êtes très gentil.

 :-*


----------



## mellian (27 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> It seems a shame that with all the money spent on uniforms that there are still serious problems like this.. the whole point of issued uniforms is so that everyone looks the same and 'uniform'. With different tops and bottoms all at different colors and shades of fading after the first couple of years youd think something would be done to correct the problem long term.. is it just the CADPATs that fade like this or do other militarys uniforms also have the same flaw??



What is amusing is, once one is in the CF long enough, they get so accustom to seeing the same uniforms everywhere, they start telling them apart by shade and wear. To the average person outside of the CF, probably not even noticeable unless it stands out.


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

mellian said:
			
		

> What is amusing is, once one is in the CF long enough, they so accustom to seeing the same uniforms everywhere, they start telling them apart by shade and wear. To the average person out of the CF, probably not even noticeable unless it stands out.



Ergo the reason that most troops coming into cloting stores actually ask for "used" cadpat  

One can never actually be "too" sure what the shade or wear signifies - or even "does not" signify; most people who regard their "ability to judge another's accomplishmets or history" based soley upon the "uniform wear or colour" caveat as a "skill" are usually RTFOOer.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (27 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Ergo the reason that most troops coming into cloting stores actually ask for "used" cadpat
> 
> One can never actually be "too" sure what the shade or wear signifies - or even "does not" signify; most people who regard their "ability to judge another's accomplishmets or history" based soley upon the "uniform wear or colour" caveat as a "skill" are usually RTFOOer.



I thought that's what the rank we wear was for  ???

 ;D


----------



## Smity199 (27 Aug 2009)

mellian said:
			
		

> What is amusing is, once one is in the CF long enough, they get so accustom to seeing the same uniforms everywhere, they start telling them apart by shade and wear. To the average person outside of the CF, probably not even noticeable unless it stands out.



and you would know what it's like to have been in the Forces for a long period of time how? when people ask questions on this forum they usually expect answers to come from those who are in the know (having first hand knowledge), not from those who speculate on what they read online. Untill you have gained some military knowledge and experience yourself please stick to asking questions, you definately aren't qualified to answer mine.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (27 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> and you would know what it's like to have been in the Forces for a long period of time how? when people ask questions on this forum they usually expect answers to come from those who are in the know (having first hand knowledge), not from those who speculate on what they read online. Untill you have gained some military knowledge and experience yourself please stick to asking questions, you definately aren't qualified to answer mine.



Back your truck up buckwheat. It's not your thread, forum or site. She's as much entitled to her opinion as you are yours. I could well say "Being a neophyte, and until you gain some time and experience here, ensure you don't go running off at the yip and making an idiot of yourself".   However, I won't.

This has been, at least, the third time in as many weeks, that someone has come here and _demanded_ that only certain people answer their questions or participate in the thread. It's *NOT* on. Once you post a thread or question, it belongs to the boards. You no longer own the rights to the words, and anyone can respond.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## PuckChaser (27 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> and you would know what it's like to have been in the Forces for a long period of time how? when people ask questions on this forum they usually expect answers to come from those who are in the know (having first hand knowledge), not from those who speculate on what they read online. Untill you have gained some military knowledge and experience yourself please stick to asking questions, you definately aren't qualified to answer mine.



Pot, this is kettle, you're black, over.

You don't even have military experience listed on your profile, and a quick search of your more recent posts include a lot of "When I was sworn in" war-stories. Heck, on the second page of your posts I found this little tidbit: *Basic Training Begins: Aug 31/09*.


----------



## armyvern (27 Aug 2009)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Pot, this is kettle, you're black, over.
> 
> You don't even have military experience listed on your profile, and a quick search of your more recent posts include a lot of "When I was sworn in" war-stories. Heck, on the second page of your posts I found this little tidbit: *Basic Training Begins: Aug 31/09*.



Deja vu but didn't a mod just tell him that ... officially?

I'm sure the post was signed as "*Milnet.ca Staff*"


----------



## mellian (27 Aug 2009)

Smity199 said:
			
		

> and you would know what it's like to have been in the Forces for a long period of time how? when people ask questions on this forum they usually expect answers to come from those who are in the know (having first hand knowledge), not from those who speculate on what they read online. Untill you have gained some military knowledge and experience yourself please stick to asking questions, you definately aren't qualified to answer mine.



This is how I tend to stir the pot without intending to do so. It is a neutral comment that I made sure not to use any 'I' or 'we' pronouns while pointing out something amusing from the whole discussion in this thread.


----------



## MSEng314 (27 Aug 2009)

You didn't do anything wrong Mellian, I think the mod/admin made that clear above.

Your post made sense to me.


----------



## Michael OLeary (27 Aug 2009)

And since the thread is now about tone and interpretation of posts, I'd say were done with this one.  

Milnet.ca Staff


----------

