# Green In the Desert...



## Armymedic (13 Jul 2005)

For those of us (including me) who thought that our guys deployed to Afghanistan during Op Apollo looked abit foolish and out of place in their temperate green uniform.....

The new US soldiers coming in to make up Task Force Phoenix 4 are wearing the new green (gasp) ACU uniform. They do not have an separate temperate or Desert camo uniform anymore.

Pictures will follow, but will have to wait until my return home. (also see thread in Foreign militaries, or search under "ACU")

So saying that...instead of wasting a whole bunch of money fitting everyone out with Arid camo uniforms, why not just make the outer layers, ie body armour, helmet cover and tactical vest in Arid pattern, and we still continue to function in the normal green uniform while wearing desert style tan boots?

Let the fireworks begin....


----------



## Infanteer (13 Jul 2005)

Or jump on the Crye Multicam bandwagon, finding a Camo pattern that works very well in almost any environment:

http://www.militarymorons.com/gear/crye1.html


----------



## Manimal (13 Jul 2005)

the book "generation kill" was about the americian invasion of iraq all those months back. and the USMC ...or the guy incharge of bringing the right stuff, only brought the woodland camo flak jackets, and i think the MOPPs were all woodland too.


----------



## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

Why are they spending millions if not billions on Combats? I know Canada spent alot of money on the CADPAT Pattern and then they made the Desert Pattern... So If they can come up with a multis role combat... that would prob save money... But I still think CADPAT looks like a better pattern than anyother combat invented "personal opinion"


----------



## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

That would be awesome for the CF too... But the thing is the Military is not democratic so I dont know if they would go for that. If the head guys wants something enough he gets it :threat:


----------



## KevinB (13 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> That would be awesome for the CF too... But the thing is the Military is not democratic so I dont know if they would go for that. If the head guys wants something enough he gets it :threat:



 :

 Who exactly are you - a 9 year old with access to your parents computer?


----------



## COBRA-6 (13 Jul 2005)

I met a US Major in Germany wearing the new ACU, it's kind of greyish-green. Found this pic online, though the guy I met wasn't wearing it "collar up". He was impressed with it anyways...


----------



## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

And no I am not some 9 yr old using my parents comp


----------



## Fishbone Jones (13 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> And no I am not some 9 yr old using my parents comp



Then quit acting like one. Your new here and were warned right off the bat about your childish, inaccuarate, ill informed comments. You were told to read and follow the guidelines. You have failed to heed any of this advise, continued in your ways, and are now enjoying the first step of the Warning System. A smart person would now be quiet and just read for awhile until they got a better feeling for what goes on here, and how it's done. Your choice. The Owner's way or the highway. No more freebies.


----------



## scm77 (13 Jul 2005)

Some pictures of it being worn in Iraq.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (13 Jul 2005)

Seems to blend in quit nice in the bottom picture and no overly identifyable in the top one. I'd say it's not a bad compromise, given you could transition back and forth a couple of times before coffe break.


----------



## scm77 (13 Jul 2005)

These guys are airsofterts (or paintballers) but you can still see it blends in quite well in grey urban environment.




And here's one in a greener environment (again airsoft).


----------



## Manimal (13 Jul 2005)

found this on a website

"Multicam. This outstanding new pattern was developed by Crye Precision in co-operation with the US Army Natick Soldier Research Center, as an experiment to determine whether a single camouflage pattern could be effective in limiting the visual and near-IR signature of a person across a wider range of environments and seasons. The scale and contrast of the pattern elements are designed to work well when observed from both distant and close ranges.


----------



## rmc_wannabe (13 Jul 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> So saying that...instead of wasting a whole bunch of money fitting everyone out with Arid camo uniforms, why not just make the outer layers, ie body armour, helmet cover and tactical vest in Arid pattern, and we still continue to function in the normal green uniform while wearing desert style tan boots?



 This is just a cadet's opinion *awaits barage of debris*, but would it not be a valid idea to make "reversable combats", with Temperate on one side, and Arid on the other ??? ( i got this idea while looking at my gym shorts  ). Seriously, but would it work? is it a viable option?

Just a thought.


----------



## Roy Harding (13 Jul 2005)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> This is just a cadet's opinion *awaits barage of debris*, but would it not be a valid idea to make "reversable combats", with Temperate on one side, and Arid on the other ??? ( i got this idea while looking at my gym shorts  ). Seriously, but would it work? is it a viable option?
> 
> Just a thought.



That seems a sensible idea - I wonder if it would cause the material to be too heavy for hot weather operations?

I had a look at my own gym shorts - apparently I don't see what you see! ;D


----------



## Michael OLeary (14 Jul 2005)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> This is just a cadet's opinion *awaits barage of debris*, but would it not be a valid idea to make "reversable combats", with Temperate on one side, and Arid on the other ??? ( i got this idea while looking at my gym shorts  ). Seriously, but would it work? is it a viable option?
> 
> Just a thought.



Now imagine the bulkiness of having all of the fabric of a full pocket under each pocket on the outside of the shirt and jacket/parka.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (14 Jul 2005)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Now imagine the bulkiness of having all of the fabric of a full pocket under each pocket on the outside of the shirt and jacket/parka.



Wouldn't be that bad if you just had the bellow reversed when the reverse face fabric was face out and the pockets setup as a 'pass-thru' design.  Pocket flaps would be the bulkiest things.

The US looked at doing a reversible BDU in the mid 90's, but the project never got past the experimentation stage.
http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/media/fact/individual/Reversible_BDU.htm

I don't think you'd be able to print temperate and arid cadpat on the Canadian combat cloth though.  The material seems too lightweight and porous.  I think the dyes from the opposite patterns would bleed into each other far too much to make it workable on the current Canadian textile.


----------



## rmc_wannabe (14 Jul 2005)

Retired CC said:
			
		

> That seems a sensible idea - I wonder if it would cause the material to be too heavy for hot weather operations?
> 
> I had a look at my own gym shorts - apparently I don't see what you see! ;D



Thats something i was thinking too...it would be rather heavy, and yer Michael I see your point about it being bulky. Meh, it's just something i thought of :-\.

(btw Retired CC, i have no idea why my shorts are reversable, just something i noticed )


----------



## Roy Harding (14 Jul 2005)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> Thats something i was thinking too...it would be rather heavy, and yer Michael I see your point about it being bulky. Meh, it's just something i thought of :-\.
> 
> (btw Retired CC, i have no idea why my shorts are reversable, just something i noticed )



Keep thinking, all great ideas started with someone contemplating something apparently innocuous (like gym shorts, for instance).

It's interesting to note, as Matt_Fisher has, that your idea had enough merit that it has already been experimented with by the US Army - that it was ultimately rejected does not mean it was a "bad" idea - don't dismiss such originality as easily as "Meh, it's just something I thought of".

When I was kid, shovelling the G.D. sidewalk after a major snowfall, I began to wonder why we couldn't just heat the sidewalk and melt the snow away.  Imagine my surprise a few years later when I learned that this is EXACTLY what is done on some major plaza's in front of downtown office towers.  Just because I wasn't the ONLY one (or that someone else, unbeknownst to me, had thought of it earlier) to think of it doesn't make the idea any less valid.


----------



## Spr.Earl (14 Jul 2005)

I with many others wearing the old combats just rolled around in the dust and voila we had desert camo in Yakima,for our vehicles we made a mud puddle and used whisk brooms dipped in said puddle and we had great camo!!

You use your terrain and adapt!!!


----------



## Britney Spears (14 Jul 2005)

The Germans had a reversible smock during WW2.

I was an avid reader of <a href=http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/morecammo.html>this site</a> as well as <a href=http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/cammo.html>this</a>.

I am quite partial to the following concepts:

- The old Werhmarcht grey was a pretty good basic uniform color, since grey and brown tends to blend in with everything. Even OD would too. I'm not a huge fan of the various disruptive pattern stuff, especially our green cadpat, because green doesn't blend with anything except green.

- On top of the basic shirt and trousers, one could wear body armour, also of a neutral color, and over that, a loose fitting camoflage smock, whose primary purpose woul dbe camoflague and not insulation.

- Webbing and Packs, with their straigh lines are much more visible than body parts. Long black straight rifles are the most visible. To address the issue of cam and concealment the first priority should be breaking up the silouette of one's webbing, pack, and rifle. The colour of one's shirt or trousers is rather minor in comparison.

- The utility of disruptive pattern uniforms are vastly overrated. 99% of sneaking around consits of noise discipline, alertness, and good fieldcraft. uniform colors may occasionally playa  role but overall their role is minor. I would not feel particularly disadvantaged if I had to wear OD in places like Afghanistan, and like most people know, after a little time in the field you'll be wearing half the training area anyway. I am confident that our forefathers were equally effective at cam/concealment without any fancy digital patterned uniforms.


----------



## pappy (14 Jul 2005)

The USMC did the reversible camies in WW2, "Green side/Brown side"  but they where hot, and heavy...

as to one posters question as to way spend $$$$$$$.... becuase it's better to spend money on something that will save Marines and soldiers lives...  anything that can help breakup and inhibit the enemy from spotting our men is moeny well spent.


----------



## TCBF (14 Jul 2005)

Remember the old cover cam helmet?  The original ones were green pattern/brown pattern reversable.  In the late seventies or so, it swiched to just green pattern.

'Feldgrau' is the colour I would go with if I had a choice of straight colours.   Pants, shirts, M-48s, it worked fine on everything.  

Dirty works too, but has it's disadvantages.


Tom


----------



## Edward Campbell (14 Jul 2005)

We did trials back about 1980 (I can't remember the exact year but Charlie Belzile was commanding the army, for whatever that's worth).  We (Mobile Command units, not me, personally) tested a variety of disruptive patterns plus 'new'/green and 'well laundered'/almost grey combat uniforms.  The tests were conducted in several places in Canada, including Wainwright badlands and Gagetown swamps.  Uniforms were tested 'as is' and then the tests were repeated with soldiers encouraged to supplement the cam with grass/leaves/dirt, etc.  The laundered/green-grey combats won, easily, test after test.

*I think* that was one of the reasons we ended up with the disruptive pattern garrison jackets.  Some commanders, reflecting, I think, strong opinions from their troops, wanted disruptive pattern (_paint by numbers_) uniforms because the Brits and Yanks had 'em.  I recall Charlie Belzile asking one brigade commander if the issue was _operational_ or _cosmetic_ and the consensus, around the table, (I was in the 'second row') was that it was cosmetic.  Shortly after that the much despised work dress was replaced with 'garrison' dress â â€œ based, loosely, on the SSF's unauthorized version.  CADPAT came in 10 or 15 years later - after I had retired.


----------



## jmackenzie_15 (14 Jul 2005)

It makes more sense to me, given our governments history of spending on the military, to save as much money as possible, while 
still remaining effective.In my opinion, an overall cam pattern like the american ACU, that works 'fairly' well in ALL environments, is a better
investment than 3 different patterns that work VERY well, but only in their respective environments.

Also, like someone else stated earlier, the combat theatre can rapidly change today.An arid desert combat pattern would work well in the desert, untill you move inside of an old concrete/brick factory or something... then, not so much.

I thought the ACU was silly at first, but ive come to see that it makes more sense than I had originally thought.

Britney makes a good point as well.The Germans may have had it right all those years back.A neutral uniform color that works in as many environments as possible, and focus on cam patterns for things that are more visible and identifying, like gear and rifles.

...yeah.


----------



## Britney Spears (14 Jul 2005)

*TCBF, Edward Campbell,* thanks for restoring my confidence in the Clothe The Soldier Program. It's great to know that the lessons learned 30 years ago are being actively purged from the corporate consciousness. I die a little inside with every new indignity foisted upon me.


----------



## rmc_wannabe (14 Jul 2005)

Retired CC said:
			
		

> Keep thinking, all great ideas started with someone contemplating something apparently innocuous (like gym shorts, for instance).
> 
> It's interesting to note, as Matt_Fisher has, that your idea had enough merit that it has already been experimented with by the US Army - that it was ultimately rejected does not mean it was a "bad" idea - don't dismiss such originality as easily as "Meh, it's just something I thought of".
> 
> When I was kid, shovelling the G.D. sidewalk after a major snowfall, I began to wonder why we couldn't just heat the sidewalk and melt the snow away.   Imagine my surprise a few years later when I learned that this is EXACTLY what is done on some major plaza's in front of downtown office towers.   Just because I wasn't the ONLY one (or that someone else, unbeknownst to me, had thought of it earlier) to think of it doesn't make the idea any less valid.




Thanks for the advice. I will keep the thought process going. You knever know ...


----------



## mcnutt_p (14 Jul 2005)

In basic I was issued the OD combats, they worked great(as far as I could tell). They were a plain color that allowed other colors such as brown from the mud to blend in with them. 

When I got CADPAT I noticed they were bright, but after wearing them and having washed them, they dulled down alot allowing them to work just like the old OD cbts that we had.

Is this just me or is there someone else that noticed this?

McNutt


----------



## KevinB (14 Jul 2005)

FWIW - I have yet so see anything BLACK in nature - green, grey, brown - but look around It is not a specifically natural colou rin the surroundings.  

 FWIW TAN IMHO blends in better than OD 


Notwithstanding any of this - Our uniforms are highly flamable, designed poorly and just when the unifrom is laundered anough to dull done th ebright lime green in the relish - the IR coating has worn off.


----------



## COBRA-6 (14 Jul 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> FWIW - I have yet so see anything BLACK in nature - green, grey, brown - but look around It is not a specifically natural colou rin the surroundings.



Ever been to Sudbury??  ;D


----------



## KevinB (14 Jul 2005)

It depends where you are as to who controls your boot colour.

 99% of the time when we are trainign no one cares what your footwear is -- we had the Desert/TAN boots past range control rules so you where gtg as long as you where going to be training out past R/C  - Also as soon as you start trainign for operations the footwear issue seems to fly out the window (or maybe I have just taken it that way   )


----------



## COBRA-6 (14 Jul 2005)

Official direction is that tan boots are not to be worn in Canada, only black boots. That being said we were wearing them on pre-deployment trg in Petawawa last month, to break them in.


----------



## KevinB (14 Jul 2005)

OMG Tan boots  ;D

 - But I did wear the TV (shudder)


----------



## Fishbone Jones (14 Jul 2005)

I'm only guessing here....but tan boots are not allowed for wear in Canada because you have to deploy to get them officially issued. Know what I'm saying


----------



## OHara (14 Jul 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I'm only guessing here....but tan boots are not allowed for wear in Canada because you have to deploy to get them officially issued. Know what I'm saying



I do beleive you are right. But if you buy your own and you are in a arid region then I beleive if you get permission then you are allowed. For example, the Vernon Army Cadet Summer Training Center. That is a Arid Region and there are lots of CIC,Reserve Officers along with several NCO's wearing them. This is just my geuss.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (14 Jul 2005)

Thanks for the input, but we're not talking about Cadet Camp.


----------



## OHara (14 Jul 2005)

No, I know that but still. It is still CF members whom train the cadets for them to do there C7 TOET's and things and they wear tanned boots. Just because I said it was a cadet camp doesnt mean that the CF members don't have to follow certain guidelines. But do you see what I mean?

 :bullet:


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (14 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> No, I know that but still. It is still CF members whom train the cadets for them to do there C7 TOET's and things and they wear tanned boots. Just because I said it was a cadet camp doesnt mean that the CF members don't have to follow certain guidelines. But do you see what I mean?
> 
> :bullet:



Are you an expert of CF Dress and Deportment now? Go ahead and go up to a CF member and tell him he/she is out of dress...


----------



## OHara (14 Jul 2005)

I have never said anything. The point is people wear the tanned boots because there higher ranking superiors say they can.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (14 Jul 2005)

Then don't worry about it.


----------



## PViddy (14 Jul 2005)

I own a pair of DB's.  I much rather wear those when it is practical...i.e when it is sweltering hot out, they are a much lighter boot, and breathable.  I think i would refrain from wearing them however, if i was mostly on base for the day. 
 A good question though, is their a dress reg that exists that says we should not wear them with fatigues in such and such region ?

cheers

PV


----------



## 392 (14 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> I do beleive you are right. But if you buy your own and you are in a arid region then I beleive if you get permission then you are allowed. For example, the Vernon Army Cadet Summer Training Center. That is a Arid Region and there are lots of CIC,Reserve Officers along with several NCO's wearing them. This is just my geuss.



I hate to break it to ya, but Vernon does not constitute an Arid region. Arid is the fancy term for desert (hence the tan colour of the arid uniforms) and there is a CANFORGEN (*I think* - on leave right now so no DIN access) out that states tan boots are not to be worn in Canada, other than with specific permission from the powers that be, and that does not mean your CIC officer   :

I remember the "official" (?) ruling coming out about 7 years ago that on ex, any issued Canadian footwear was authorized, but only black footwear was authorized in garrison, but that has since been replaced by said new ruling.


----------



## qjdb (14 Jul 2005)

392 said:
			
		

> I hate to break it to ya, but Vernon does not constitute an Arid region. Arid is the fancy term for desert (hence the tan colour of the arid uniforms) and there is a CANFORGEN (*I think* - on leave right now so no DIN access) out that states tan boots are not to be worn in Canada, other than with specific permission from the powers that be, and that does not mean your CIC officer   :
> 
> I remember the "official" (?) ruling coming out about 7 years ago that on ex, any issued Canadian footwear was authorized, but only black footwear was authorized in garrison, but that has since been replaced by said new ruling.



I am pretty sure that what he was trying to say was that the PRIMARY reserve officers, not the CIC reserve officers, were wearing them.  Just because he does not know the appropriate lingo, and how to differentiate between Reg and PRes and CIC, is not a reason to slag the kid.  I understand that he has been 'straying' a bit, but take into consideration his age, in-experience in life, and in-experience on this forum.  Please?

There are lots of Reg and Res members that work at Cadet camps during the summer.  For example, like he mentioned, the guys doing the C7 training.  They would probably not be CIC, as CIC (there may be exceptions, I would assume) are not trained on that particular weapon, only on frigging Daisies and 22s (stupid, I think, but that's a different matter altogether).

CIC are not issued the Desert boots, because if we are having to deploy, there is a REAL problem.  So, unless they got hold of some through a surplus store or something, I would assume that the wearer was Reg or PRes.

flame away, if you feel so inclined.

qjdb


----------



## Britney Spears (14 Jul 2005)

> Notwithstanding any of this - Our uniforms are highly flamable, designed poorly and just when the unifrom is laundered anough to dull done th ebright lime green in the relish - the IR coating has worn off.



Kev, <a href=http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/smock.html>the site</a> I posted has a few idea regarding this. Essentially, you could wear a neutral colored wicking layer next to skin(the comfort layer), then neutral coloured armour(protective layer), and over the top, a large, potato sack style disruptive pattern smock(the camoflague layer). The smock can be made reversible and easily donned or doffed to adapt to different camoflague enviroments, doesn't need to be particularly comfortable (can be coarse and non-absorbent to stay light when wet), can be treated for IR and flame retardency, and further more it would be the only item of clothing that would need to be exchanged since it will save wear and tear on the other layers.


----------



## Haggis (14 Jul 2005)

PViddy said:
			
		

> A good question though, is their a dress reg that exists that says we should not wear them with fatigues in such and such region ?



Although there is a fairly recent CANFORGEN which states that desert boots are "not authorized for wear in Canada", your first few weeks in theatre are a damned poor time and place to break in a new pair of boots.  The same was said of DBs and JBs on my last tour.  So, I went to the RSM and asked for a month for my troops to break in their new boots while on pre-deployment training.  He went for it without hesitation.  As with any regulation, common sense must prevail.

Where I see common sense failing is when soldiers wear the DBs in inappropriate circumstances because of the LCF.  Example:  During a winter tour in Bosnia, NCE soldiers wearing DBs in calf deep snow.  When I questioned our BG RSM I was told that he had questioned it higher too.  Basicially it came down to "hey, they're NCE..."


----------



## Krazy-P (14 Jul 2005)

sorry to get off topic here, but are you guys allowed to paint your weapons before goint to afghanistan, im only asking because of kevinb's pics he posted.


----------



## B.McTeer (14 Jul 2005)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/McTeer/SS_italian_infantry.jpg

its the Itailian Version of the feldgrau, pretty much the same but alittle bit greener


----------



## Fishbone Jones (15 Jul 2005)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Although there is a fairly recent CANFORGEN which states that desert boots are "not authorized for wear in Canada", your first few weeks in theatre are a damned poor time and place to break in a new pair of boots.   The same was said of DBs and JBs on my last tour.   So, I went to the RSM and asked for a month for my troops to break in their new boots while on pre-deployment training.   He went for it without hesitation.   As with any regulation, common sense must prevail.



We tried the same reasoning on Roto 0 with 3RCR. We were told no, flat out, in no uncertain terms. We couldn't even put them on in Mirage. My first day, ON DUTY, in my DB's was in Kabul. I broke mine in on pre deployment leave. Although, given how the boot is made, they don't take more than a day or two to get comfortable in. Still, that's no excuse.


----------



## TCBF (15 Jul 2005)

"I die a little inside with every new indignity foisted upon me.'

- Then I guess i'm on the right site.

- Pre APPOLO 2002, the day I brought my relish home, my wife asked me where the hot dogs were.  They faded.  Fast.  it must have been the dirt.  I talked my way into a USN Barracks in diego garcia on the way home, and I looked in the washer part way through - it looked like i was doing a laundry i chocolat milk.  Still find 'Gan dust in my Turret and Surv Checklist books.

- The jump smock issued to me in Pet fall 1977 has faded to the same colour.

- Green in the desert?  That's why we wore brown US Army T shirts!   Say, is the mid-tour socks and T Shirts issue in yet? ;D

Tom


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (15 Jul 2005)

From CANFORGEN 016/05 CLS 001/05 261806Z JAN 05:



> THE ONLY AUTHORIZED FOOTWEAR FOR PERS CONDUCTING LAND OPERATIONS REMAINS THE MARK III COMBAT BOOT NSN 8430-21-872-4291, THE WWB NSN 8430-21-914-9924 AND THE TCB NSN 8430-20-001-2410 WHEN INTRODUCED. THE CURRENT IN-SERVICE HOT WEATHER (DESERT) BOOT NSN 8430-21-908-2375 ISSUED ONLY FOR SPECIFIED DEPLOYMENTS IS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR IN CANADA.



(excuse the "all caps" - it's the website)

Have I seen tan boots in Canada?...yup.  Have *I* worn tan boots in Canada?...er, yup...  IMHO, we're a tad too anal about such things, but that's been the subject of different rants on different threads for some time now.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> We tried the same reasoning on Roto 0 with 3RCR. We were told no, flat out, in no uncertain terms.



RCR - 'nuff said...


----------



## Britney Spears (15 Jul 2005)

> THE ONLY AUTHORIZED FOOTWEAR FOR PERS CONDUCTING LAND OPERATIONS REMAINS THE MARK III COMBAT BOOT NSN 8430-21-872-4291, THE WWB NSN 8430-21-914-9924 AND THE TCB NSN 8430-20-001-2410 WHEN INTRODUCED. THE CURRENT IN-SERVICE HOT WEATHER (DESERT) BOOT NSN 8430-21-908-2375 ISSUED ONLY FOR SPECIFIED DEPLOYMENTS IS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR IN CANADA.



Boy, have I been living on the edge for the last few years.......

What exactly is the rationale behind this?


----------



## PPCLI Guy (15 Jul 2005)

> What exactly is the rationale behind this?



There isn't one.

Quote from: recceguy on Yesterday at 23:33:58
We tried the same reasoning on Roto 0 with 3RCR. We were told no, flat out, in no uncertain terms. 



> RCR - 'nuff said...



Having said that, the Roto 4 TF RSM (PPCLI) and 2 CMBG RSM (PPCLI) agreed that Roto 4 pers could wear their tan boots on the VALEX in Pet to break them in.  I am sure that the PRT folks were also given that opportunity.

All of which won't help me next week - on my way to Pet for final DAG and departure (where I will be wearing Arid CADPAT and tan boots), I have to spend a day in NDHQ getting the final briefs etc - wearing TW CADPAT, and black boots (which I will then have to mail home from Pet, unless I want an extra pair of boots in theatre).  All quite aggravating.


----------



## Krazy-P (15 Jul 2005)

stupid question for ya,  in afghanistan do you wear desert boots the whole time, or just half of the time like in bosnia?


----------



## buzgo (15 Jul 2005)

On Roto 0 at Camp Warehouse, with the Sig Sqn, IIRC we were ordered to switch to MKIIIs or WWB when winter hit. I was wearing black JBs and got 'corrected' pretty quickly.


----------



## KevinB (15 Jul 2005)

Krazy-P said:
			
		

> stupid question for ya,   in afghanistan do you wear desert boots the whole time, or just half of the time like in bosnia?



 For us it was personal choice


----------



## Infanteer (15 Jul 2005)

Why we waste our time with the boots on a person's feet (unless it is for tactical considerations) is beyond me....


----------



## Britney Spears (15 Jul 2005)

> Why we waste our time with the boots on a person's feet (unless it is for tactical considerations) is beyond me....



It would seem to me that a person who needs higher to decide which pair of shoes to don in the morning has no business being in the army, much less an operational theatre.

I've never paid any attention to these insane directives, If I'm in garrision I wear whatever the Sgt Maj. is wearing, and in the field I wear whatever(issued boot) I bloody well feel like, and my CoC generally trusts me to make a sensible decision.

Of course, I imagine an attitude such as mine will severly limit any prospects for career progression in the CF, but what can I say, comfort is important to me......


----------



## soldiers301 (16 Jul 2005)

> FWIW - I have yet so see anything BLACK in nature - green, grey, brown - but look around It is not a specifically natural colou rin the surroundings.



This is a picture where black is changed to yellow. You need black in camo, as little as you want but you need black. ACU is a good pattern but only in urban area (In my opinion). I still prefer different uniform for different area. It may cost more but that more effective. (That still MY opinion).


----------



## KevinB (16 Jul 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Of course, I imagine an attitude such as mine will severly limit any prospects for career progression in the CF, but what can I say, comfort is important to me......



Or you get a notation on your PER that your staff writing skills are way beyond what is expected for your rank level  -
By turning "I think your a moron for picking on my boot choice in the field - into a logical but consise structured argument about how different kit is needed by individuals due to differing body shapes and designs


----------



## paracowboy (16 Jul 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Or you get a notation on your PER that your staff writing skills are way beyond what is expected for your rank level   -
> By turning "I think your a moron for picking on my boot choice in the field - into a logical but consise structured argument about how different kit is needed by individuals due to differing body shapes and designs


or you get told to "shut up and change your boots"  :


----------



## KevinB (16 Jul 2005)

I could not hear him while typing the UCR  

 We got ordered into issue boots but someone whined to the padre (not me) and it lasted less than 24hrs.


----------

