# Medic DEU insignias



## medic2ic (29 Mar 2005)

I've been reading throughout the different "medical" threads that since we medics (reserve) no longer fall under brigade commands (from our original CSS Units - not Fd Ambs), we should be removing our LFCmd pin on the pocket and our brigade patches. Can anyone enter any insight into this? Should I start bugging my Fd Amb that I am now "attached from" to get these new badges out to me? Whats the story?? Do I wear the old Land Force Command pin and Brigade patch or not??


----------



## Marti (29 Mar 2005)

As far as I know, the badges that are supposed to be replacing the bde patch and the Land Force Command pin aren't available yet. My unit stopped wearing the bde patch and the Land Force Command pin about a year ago, and from what I remember seeing in Borden over the summer that seems to be the case for other army CFMG units as well. I'm sure someone will be along with a more definitive answer though.


----------



## medic2ic (29 Mar 2005)

Well my unit is usually about 1 year behind the times, so I guess eventually all of us medics will look the same in uniform. But until then, we'll all look different and then get yelled at for being out of uniform. Strange cycle really.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (29 Mar 2005)

Why would the LFC badge come down?  Medics are no longer part of the Army???


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (29 Mar 2005)

Micheal:

That's right. All CF medical units now come directly under CFMG.  I believe they are OPCON (vice the previous OPCOM) to brigades but will stand corrected as my memory is a bit hazy after being on leave... 

TR


----------



## old medic (29 Mar 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Why would the LFC badge come down?  Medics are no longer part of the Army???



Correct.  CFMG is it's own Corp.  Lead by the DGHS (Director General Health Services).
It has been this way since the re-org.  Thus why all the medical units belong to CFMG now, 
and not the brigades. 

There are a number of threads here about the Health Service Restructure.

As for the command badge, I'll quote Ratcatcher from another thread:

 " ...  As for the command badge and the brigade patch, since we are no longer members of a brigade we do not wear the patch, we are now lodger units of bases, and members of a numbered health services group ie.. for myself in valcartier, I am a member of 4 Gp de service de sante.  As for the command badge we will be getting issued the ADM-HR (Mil) command badge. It is white with a red strip from top to bottom and the gryphon (the mythical beast and not the helicopter) upon it. The gryphon is in gold. "


----------



## medic2ic (29 Mar 2005)

Wonderful... so I guess we'll just have to wait and see when that filters down from the Mother Shop (Fd Ambs) to the little people in all the CSS or Cbt Arm units.

Thanks for the info, this forum is very helpful.


----------



## Armymedic (29 Mar 2005)

Medics do not wear brigade patches or enviromental pins any more...

There is a new Human Rescourses branch pin that will be coming out in the next 6 months for all members of CFMG. Its is a white shield with a red horizontal strip thru the middle third and the regal lion on the center.


----------



## Fraser.g (30 Mar 2005)

I believe it is a Griffin (the mythical beast not the Helo) and not the lion. I have only seen it once and that was on the branch Sargent major at Op Med.

GF


----------



## old medic (30 Mar 2005)

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/engraph/home_e.asp?Lev1=11

I assume we're trying to describe something like the one shown here in the top left corner.

Cheers


----------



## Fraser.g (30 Mar 2005)

Not realy, I was referring to the command badge. It has a winged lion (Griffon) superimposed on a red and white background.


GF


----------



## old medic (30 Mar 2005)

Gotcha.... 

I cropped the inner circle out of that cap badge, but I'm having trouble uploading it right now.
Would the center of that look similar ?


----------



## Armymedic (30 Mar 2005)

old medic said:
			
		

> http://www.dnd.ca/hr/engraph/home_e.asp?Lev1=11
> 
> I assume we're trying to describe something like the one shown here in the top left corner.
> 
> Cheers



Yes just like in the center of the ADM (HA-Mi)l capbadge, except the red stip is horizontal...


----------



## Trinity (30 Mar 2005)

I acutally left the trade because of this move by the Medical system.

I knew it was going to screw up alot of people and it did.  All medics
in infantry or other units had to go to a medical unit (although they can
be attached posted back to their original unit) they fall under control
of the new core.

And now they're playing with standards of the reservists of what they
can and can't do..... Forget it.. Either I can save a life, or I can't.

Remuster....   i loved being a medic, but my new trade has always been
my calling, and my time in the medics was not wasted. Saved a few lives
so....


----------



## Michael Dorosh (31 Mar 2005)

Trinity said:
			
		

> I acutally left the trade because of this move by the Medical system.
> 
> I knew it was going to screw up alot of people and it did.  All medics in infantry or other units had to go to a medical unit (although they can be attached posted back to their original unit) they fall under control of the new core.
> 
> ...



It was a sad, sad day when we lost our medics out of the Calgary Highlanders - they did everything the infantry did.  One sergeant (now in a medical company) took his Comms Course with the privates and corporals just because he wanted to be qualified PROPERLY.  I saw him carry the C6 on exercise, also.

Now this crap?

There are rumours flying that all the clerks in our brigade are being reassigned to Service Battalion.  From where they will probably be assigned back to the combat arms units.  I'm not an infanteer, but I wore the regimental cap badge for 9 years as a piper, and have served the regiment for 9 more years as a clerk, signaller, driver and a couple of times as a rifleman (don't ask how desperate they were!) on exercise.  I consider myself a Highlander.  I am hoping the Empire building that is going on in the support trades is going to be a trend that firmly stops soon.  Bad enough we lost our vehicle techs, weapons techs, supply techs, medics, orderly rooms....I don't see any good coming from this trend.

And now medics aren't even part of the Army anymore?  What the hell is "human resources"?  We had that at the Bank of Nova Scotia where I worked civvie side.  Never struck me as a component of our land forces...

What next.


----------



## Eowyn (31 Mar 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Now this crap?
> 
> There are rumours flying that all the clerks in our brigade are being reassigned to Service Battalion.   From where they will probably be assigned back to the combat arms units.   I'm not an infanteer, but I wore the regimental cap badge for 9 years as a piper, and have served the regiment for 9 more years as a clerk, signaller, driver and a couple of times as a rifleman (don't ask how desperate they were!) on exercise.   I consider myself a Highlander.   I am hoping the Empire building that is going on in the support trades is going to be a trend that firmly stops soon.   Bad enough we lost our vehicle techs, weapons techs, supply techs, medics, orderly rooms....I don't see any good coming from this trend.
> 
> ...



As to the Calg Highrs losing their EME techs, it was more a question of getting the pers trained and allowing them to do their job.  The permissive schedule for repairs is fairly restrictive, especially if there isn't a trained supervisor.  The Svc Bns are having problems with this as well.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (31 Mar 2005)

Oh, granted; the Wpns Tech candidate we had - as you know - was told he had to take a course several months in length.  He did EME common and decided the gratuity looked very appealing suddenly.

I was hoping you were going to dispel the rumour about the clerks going to Service Battalion.  Lucky for me we will have more paid positions for R871.  I'm very happy as a clerk but they can try and pry my tam o'shanter out of my cold dead hands.  I'll remuster before I lose my regimental affiliation.  I could get used to playing bagpipes for a living again.

Sorry to the medics for being off topic - so tell me, has the reassignment of medics from the combat arms to the medical companies (at least in the Militia) really improved anything for anyone?


----------



## Long in the tooth (31 Mar 2005)

Your affiliation as an R836 is to the trade, not to a unit.  Last summer I marched a remuster over to QM, had his old unit affiliation removed and put up the logistics cap badge on his BERET.  Just because you get away with this does not make it correct, contrary to your thinking.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (31 Mar 2005)

Worn Out Grunt said:
			
		

> Your affiliation as an R836 is to the trade, not to a unit.  Last summer I marched a remuster over to QM, had his old unit affiliation removed and put up the logistics cap badge on his BERET.  Just because you get away with this does not make it correct, contrary to your thinking.



Don't even dare tell me who my "affiliation" is with.  I'm a Highlander, and if I wear the LOG badge, it's because I have to.  I don't "get away" with anything, I occupy a position on my regiment's establishment.   And if you tried to pull that crap on me, you'd be sorely disappointed.  ;D  

XOXOXOX


----------



## medic2ic (31 Mar 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Sorry to the medics for being off topic - so tell me, has the reassignment of medics from the combat arms to the medical companies (at least in the Militia) really improved anything for anyone?



Has this change improved anything for me... no... I'm a medic that was with a Svc Bn, and have been moved over to a Fd Amb, if anything I have lost training I think. We are only brought to our Fd Amb units maybe 4 times a year, this year only twice. And now when we are in our "original" units, they don't know what to do with us (medics). I end up sitting in the orderly room all night doing clerk stuff. The odd night I'll count bandaids in the first aid kits, lord help us if we're low, because we certainly don't have any stock to replace anything with. 

As for administration, it takes forever to get something done, as we have to go through e-mail or phone to our Fd Ambs, takes forever....

I am the originator of this thread... and I have to say that this is a far cry from talking about Medical insignias on our DEU's. We may have to move this over to another thread. But thanks for all the great insight into this matter. I'm glad to see that there are others that aren't 100% approving of this new switch over.


----------



## RatCatcher (31 Mar 2005)

To put the horizontal stripe Vs Vertical stripe thing to a rest... I saw the new badge, my CO actually showed it to everyone and it is vertical, exactly like the ADM-HR(MIL) badge but in the form of a shield...


----------



## Armymedic (31 Mar 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Oh, granted; the Wpns Tech candidate we had - as you know - was told he had to take a course several months in length.   He did EME common and decided the gratuity looked very appealing suddenly.
> 
> I was hoping you were going to dispel the rumour about the clerks going to Service Battalion.   Lucky for me we will have more paid positions for R871.   I'm very happy as a clerk but they can try and pry my tam o'shanter out of my cold dead hands.   I'll remuster before I lose my regimental affiliation.   I could get used to playing bagpipes for a living again.
> 
> Sorry to the medics for being off topic - so tell me, has the reassignment of medics from the combat arms to the medical companies (at least in the Militia) really improved anything for anyone?



Actually in has been an improvement for us on the Reg force side. Now because the Reg'ts don't own thier medics and the medics employment is determined by Snr medical people, we can be more effective in prioritizing taskings and ensureing we have the most qualifed pers in any given role.

For instance, I was at 3 RCR. That Bn is in reorg for upcoming tasks. I happened to be one of the most qualifed and Sr MCpls in the Brigade. Fd Amb wanted me to go on this tour. If I were posted to 3 RCR they would have had to cut a messege to post me back to Fd Amb, and then post someone else there in my place.

We are too short to keyhole good pers into areas where we can't get to them. Also with things like pregnancy and pat and mat leave, we are taking a kicking on the pers side. We don't have enough medics to go around an fill all the positions, jobs, tasks and deployments we are being given...

As much as you dislike it, for us it is a good thing.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (1 Apr 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Actually in has been an improvement for us on the Reg force side. Now because the Reg'ts don't own thier medics and the medics employment is determined by Snr medical people, we can be more effective in prioritizing taskings and ensureing we have the most qualifed pers in any given role.
> 
> For instance, I was at 3 RCR. That Bn is in reorg for upcoming tasks. I happened to be one of the most qualifed and Sr MCpls in the Brigade. Fd Amb wanted me to go on this tour. If I were posted to 3 RCR they would have had to cut a messege to post me back to Fd Amb, and then post someone else there in my place.
> 
> ...



But how do the infantry battalions feel about it?  I'm tempted to say "they're the ones that matter"... If what you say is true - that the most experienced medics (or put a better way, the right men/women for the job) are being tasked to the combat units, then it is indeed a good thing.  All of us exist to support the armoured, infantry, engineers and artillery do their job at the pointy end, right?


----------



## medic2ic (1 Apr 2005)

I fully agree that this may be a better option for the Regular Force troops/units, but as a reservist, it doesn't seem that the "outside medics" get the training or posn's that we should. Some of us that have been with our reserve units for years are much more suited to stay with our supported Artillery/Infantry.... units, but the Fd Ambs tend to task there original medics to these positions. We are much more familiar to the gun lines and what not, their medics might never have even seen a howitzer or an infantry unit in action as they are usually stuck with the BMS or UMS. I guess what I am saying is, again since we do not see the training that the Fd Ambs do, we may not been seen as beneficial medics to put with our supported units, even though we have many beneficial skills that a Fd Amb medic may not.  Our units still do not know what to do with us on training nights/weekends/exercises. There is no direction for "outside medics." We need to adapt our own training syllabus, but then again, we don't have the equipment. There are problems all around, maybe it is more beneficial in the long run, after all... I would have never gotten to take the PHTLS crse that the Fd Amb ran for us if we weren't part of the Fd Amb. 

Needless to say, the bit switch-a-roo isn't really working to benefit the reserve side yet... but we are usually quite a few years behind our big brothers in the Regs, so I guess our time will come soon.


----------



## Trinity (1 Apr 2005)

Worn Out Grunt said:
			
		

> Your affiliation as an R836 is to the trade, not to a unit.



I think your right... our official association is with our trade.  But when I knew I would be leaving the Inf
to be sent to the medic... no one was taking my Balmoral or my unit.  I left and went to another Scottish
Regt.  with a new trade.  (which is my civilian trade anyways)

Once you're part of a Scottish Unit...  That Balmoral (tam... for those who call it that)... becomes part of you.
I would have remustered Infantry or left the army rather than gone back to the beret.  Thats how strongly 
attached your loyalties become.


----------



## Long in the tooth (1 Apr 2005)

Sorry, sunshine, I would march you over to QM and make you pay for it.  At attention.  Did it.

Why do you want to go into this?


----------



## Trinity (1 Apr 2005)

Worn Out Grunt said:
			
		

> Sorry, sunshine, I would march you over to QM and make you pay for it.  At attention.  Did it.
> 
> Why do you want to go into this?



Did I not agree with you that the initial responsiblity lies to the trade?

I was only explaining that people of Scottish Units take a strong pride in the herritage of
their regiment.  Something i hope everyone does towards their unit.  

So.. Where did you perceive we are going into this?  Since I agreed with you I thought I 
was supporting your post.  Did I suggest NOT marching your troop over to rebadge? Did
I suggest refusing to wear the proper headdress or badge?  No, I simply said when I came
to a similiar situation, I handled it by rebadging to stick to my herritage and history of being
Scottish in the military.

How did I challenge you by agreeing with you?


----------



## Long in the tooth (1 Apr 2005)

As an 836 I find that I am expected to to follow rules and regulations....  to keep my military masters out of jail.   And I don't mean this in jest....  as a 'staff clerk" I am not just a trasncriber, but an interpreter of the rules and regulations.


----------



## Trinity (1 Apr 2005)

Worn Out Grunt said:
			
		

> As an 836 I find that I am expected to to follow rules and regulations....  to keep my military masters out of jail.   And I don't mean this in jest....  as a 'staff clerk" I am not just a trasncriber, but an interpreter of the rules and regulations.



and although the Jr's might hate you for it, the senior NCO's and officers most likely don't.

I'm glad I don't have command responsiblity in my trade and that people like you enforce the rules.
It keeps us officers out of trouble and the troops in line.

I think we are agreeing on the same point.  Also, I think we just hijacked this thread.

So, Blessings to you and yours...

Trinity


----------



## Armymedic (1 Apr 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> But how do the infantry battalions feel about it?   I'm tempted to say "they're the ones that matter"...



Indeed you are correct. And they didn't like it, but when given the option of not "OWNING" thier UMS or not having any medical persons at all because there were none to be posted in...most caved to the way it is now because all realized that they would have to change the way we do all do business...

After all it all about ownership, and not the most effective support, isn't it?

Ok...not that thats done...

Mods, lets lock this and adjust the threads to where they should be....this discussion of medic employment could be better served in the  Fd Amd vs units  poll thread.

Thanks.


----------

