# Milan Launcher and missiles captured by Taliban



## tomahawk6 (22 Oct 2008)

A French unit in Afghanistan lost a Milan launcher with 2 missiles during heavy combat.

From French MOD:


> Le 18 octobre 2008, le groupement tactique interarmes (GTIA) Kapisa, du Commandement Régional Est (Bagram) de l’ISAF, a mené dans la vallée d’Alasaï une opération synchronisée avec des actions similaires dans le Laghman et l’opération OQAB du Commandement Régional Capital en vallée d’Uzbin. Ces actions ont bénéficié de moyens d’appui aérien importants.
> Au cours de cette opération, des combats violents ont eu lieu contre les insurgés. En fin de matinée en particulier, un accrochage important s’est produit avec un dispositif adverse d’une centaine d’individus. Au cours du désengagement, sous le feu, d’une position exposée, un poste de tir Milan et deux missiles n’ont pu être récupérés. On estime à 14 le nombre de tués du côté insurgé. Un militaire français a été touché par un projectile dans son gilet pare-balle. Evacué sur l’hôpital militaire de Bagram pour des examens complémentaires, sa blessure s’est révélée sans gravité.



Quick translation : The 18th October, the tactical group Kapisa have done a synchronized operation with same kind of actions in Laghman and the Uzbin valley. Those actions were heavily air supported. During that operation, heavy fighting occured against insurgents. Especially at the end of the morning a violent struggle occured with an ennemy deploiement of around 100 elements. During disengaging under fire from an exposed position, a Milan firing system and two missiles couldn't have been retrieved. 14 insurgents are supposed KIA. A french soldier was hit on his body armor. He was evacuated to the military hospital of Bagram and complementary checking showed that its wound was not serious


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## The Bread Guy (23 Oct 2008)

VERY good catch T6 - here's a link.


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## OldSolduer (23 Oct 2008)

I'm not all that familiar with the Milan, but I hope that if it has fallen into insurgents hands they mess it up and perhaps injure themselves. Severely injure themselves.


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## tomahawk6 (23 Oct 2008)

With only two missiles if the taliban were to use it they would have to fire one to get learning experience.Another option is to pack it out to Pakistan or use the missiles as an IED.It would have been nice for the French to call in an airstrike on the system but who knows.It definitely isnt good to have this potent system floating around.


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## GAP (23 Oct 2008)

Can replacement rockets be had on the black market..?


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## OldSolduer (23 Oct 2008)

I would daresay that the AQ/Taliban have people that can operate the Milan. This could be very deadly for our troops.
I know what 82mm recoiless rifles can do to LAVIIIs.


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## ironduke57 (23 Oct 2008)

Question is which version of the MILAN they got. If it is one of the newer version´s, not only your LAV3´s are in danger.

Regards,
ironduke57


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## OldSolduer (23 Oct 2008)

I certainly hope they either recover this dangerous item, or let's hope that the spirits see fit to have it malfunction when these "freedom fighters" attempt to use it, thus sending them to a fiery death.
I am also of the opinion that there are subversives in our midst who would gladly sell out their own mother for a few dollars. Worse are the ones who supply AQ or Taliban for idealistic purposes. :rage:


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## The Bread Guy (24 Oct 2008)

France's reaction so far - high hopes highlighted by me - shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._

*FRANCE PLAYS DOWN TALIBAN CAPTURE OF ANTI-TANK MISSILES*
Agence France-Presse via the Toqueville Connection, 24 Oct 08
Article link

France played down Friday the capture by Taliban forces of two French anti-tank missiles seized after the insurgents launched a major attack on hundreds of its troops in Afghanistan.

Defence Minister Herve Morin said Western forces in Afghanistan sometimes had to abandon weapons in the field and that the main concern had been to get the troops out of last Saturday's ambush alive.

"It was an ambush in a narrow valley, with a lot of Taliban," said Morin as he visited an army unit in the eastern town of Annecy that was about to send some of its soldiers to Afghanistan.

"The essential thing is that everyone is alive," he said, adding that* the Milan anti-tank missiles abandoned would be difficult to use for anyone without the proper training.*

Fourteen Taliban were killed in the clash, according to NATO's International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan.

The ambush took place in the Alasai valley north of the capital Kabul, near where 10 French soldiers were killed in another Taliban ambush in mid-August.

But the French army waited until Thursday to publicly announce the incident.

It said that around 300 French troops were attacked by about 100 Taliban and had to retreat after fierce fighting.

Air cover was called in to help them get out of the ambush, said Lieutenant Colonel Bruno Louisfert, a French army spokesman in Afghanistan.

He said a missile launcher was also abandoned along with the two Milan portable medium-range guided missiles.

About 70,000 international troops -- 40,000 of them under NATO command -- are helping Afghans fight the Taliban who were ousted from Kabul in a US-led invasion launched after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

France has around 2,600 troops there.


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## ArmyRick (24 Oct 2008)

I do think the taliban the could figure it out. Considering I found a complete PAM on the US Javelin AT missile on the internet, I'll bet they figure it out. NATO must find that Milan system and blast it to tiny peices.


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## OldSolduer (24 Oct 2008)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> I do think the taliban the could figure it out. Considering I found a complete PAM on the US Javelin AT missile on the internet, I'll bet they figure it out. NATO must find that Milan system and blast it to tiny peices.


Along with several AQ/Taliban etc


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## Towards_the_gap (24 Oct 2008)

Somewhere in Afghanistan...............

'Inshallah Ahmed, we have captured a fiery arrow from the infidel invader! Let us go know and bestow Allah's all merciful vengeance upon their steel donkeys!'

'Indeed Mohomed, we shall strike fear into their very hearts!' 

Ooof. 

'Yallah, it is very heavy!'

'Yes Ahmed, a small test from Allah to ensure we are worthy!' 

'But mohamed, my donkey hair knapsack has failed under the strain of carrying it! Whatever shall we do?'

'Ok Ahmed, I shall carry it' 

Ooof

'Yallah, f**king thing is HEAVY! What say we find some 122mm's instead'

'Yallah Mohamed, let's leave this cursed arrow, and save our mujahedeen backs for more honourable tasks! I won't tell Commander Wahid if you don't'

'Allah most merciful, that is a very wise plan Ahmed'


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## OldSolduer (24 Oct 2008)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Somewhere in Afghanistan...............
> 
> 'Inshallah Ahmed, we have captured a fiery arrow from the infidel invader! Let us go know and bestow Allah's all merciful vengeance upon their steel donkeys!'
> 
> ...



Lets hope the darn thing blows up while there is a bunch of them hanging around watching Ahmed and his buddy.


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## Towards_the_gap (26 Oct 2008)

Garett said:
			
		

> It said that around 300 French troops were attacked by about 100 Taliban and had to retreat after fierce fighting.



Turns the old '3 to attack 1' ratio on it's head doesn't it?

Well done Pierre!


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## McG (26 Oct 2008)

All,
As a measure of OPSEC, *do not be discussing what different weapon systems can/cannot do to our vehicles*.  That kind of stuff can get troops killed.


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## GDawg (26 Oct 2008)

As most of you know, the news we get from warzones is sometimes not entirely accurate. I'd wager the missiles or the launcher would have been disabled or at least damaged as the French left. That would encourage them to fire a damaged missile. Or if no missiles were actually even lost it would encourage insurgents to gather at a known location and conspicuously search the ground...

I am surprised their Sappers didn't BIP the system on the way out the door...pop smoke and run, unless the TB was so close they had a chance of making it to their position in time to pull the det and capture a charge along with their expensive war booty.


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## The Bread Guy (26 Oct 2008)

GDawg said:
			
		

> As most of you know, the news we get from warzones is sometimes not entirely accurate. I'd wager the missiles or the launcher would have been disabled or at least damaged as the French left. That would encourage them to fire a damaged missile. Or if no missiles were actually even lost it would encourage insurgents to gather at a known location and conspicuously search the ground...



True enough, but this is the first time I've heard of a gov't admitting to losing a pretty significant wpn package in such an exchange - unless they wanted to encourage your last scenario quoted above, of course.  ;D


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## chanman (26 Oct 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> Can replacement rockets be had on the black market..?



Wouldn't be surprising.  Entering service in 1972, the original design's almost as old as TOW

Some selected countries from the Wikipedia (I know, I know) operator's list.

Bosnia
Chad
Egypt
Iran
Iraq
Kenya
Lebanon
Morroco
Pakistan
Turkey
Uruguay


I'm kinda surprised the French were using ATGMs in Afghanistan to begin with


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## ArmyRick (27 Oct 2008)

They are not the only ones using ATGM. USA and UK were both firing javelin missiles in A-stan.

Another option and I hope the french did it, shoot a good 10-20 round burst through the optics of the launcher unit. I would also have fragged the missile with a grenade or at least shoot it a couple of times. That would only take seconds and then leave them with scrap. 

But I was not there, and I do not know the circumstances that allowed this situation to occur.


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## OldSolduer (27 Oct 2008)

I hope they try to fire it and it goes KABOOM!!


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## MG34 (27 Oct 2008)

The Taliban haveexperience with Milan and other pieces of Western kit, as I recall it was provided to the mujahadeen back in the 80's when they were the "good guys" fighting the Rooskies. There was even footage of them firing a Milan at a Soviet outpost,it's out there somewhere I recall seeing it about 5-6 years ago.
  2 Missiles does not a disaster make, much like simialr systems it takes hundreds of simulator shots to become proficient with the Milan, an IED is much more effective and proven tactic.


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