# Canadians in Vietnam



## Black Watch (19 May 2005)

I would like to know if annybody has some info on Canadians soldiers that went to Nam during the war?


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## Walt (19 May 2005)

The following is a link to a website which provides various statistics regarding Canadians who served with the US forces in the Vietnam war:

http://www.mystae.com/reflections/vietnam/canada.html

Cheers,

Walt


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## jmacleod (20 May 2005)

One of our associates, a Canadian living in Louisiana, but born in Ontario, served as a Warrant
Officer helicopter pilot in Viet Nam - he indicated that he had never met another Canadian
there during his tour of duty, but had heard about Canadians serving. There is an interesting
Viet Nam veteran story focused on Halifax NS. The Roman Catholic Cemetary operated by the
Irish Benevolent Society, located on the corner of South Street and South Park Street, contains
a grave indicating that it is occupied by a member of the USMC. The grave marker is a standard
US DOD issue unit, but I noticed that in contained the letters "MOH" over the name of the
Marine - I assume that the deceased won the Medal of Honor - he was a casualty of Viet Nam,
perhaps others reading this post are familier with the story. MacLeod


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## Gramps (20 May 2005)

Here are some more links with a bit more info on Canadians in the Vietnam War. The first site is still under construction, the second one has some interesting facts on it. Cheers.

http://www.vvic.org/
http://spidersweb.stormpages.com/history.htm


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## AmmoTech90 (20 May 2005)

Book by a Canadian in Vietnam

There It Is, Les Brown

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0771016921/qid=1116612788/sr=1-21/ref=sr_1_0_21/701-8634223-7441159


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## Danjanou (20 May 2005)

_*Unknown Warriors Canadians in Vietnam*_ by Fred Gaffen is also worth a look. It's a compilation of stories (oral history) of Canadians who served in the war in the US Army, USMC, USAF, USN etc including reasons they enlisted. Also touches on some of the aftermath, PTSD, how they were treated here when they came back.


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## Art Johnson (20 May 2005)

Fred Gaffen used to work for the CWM, one of the good guys, he lost his job when he stuck to his principles. He kicked up a fuss when the weenies wanted to include a Hallocust Museum as part of the CWM.


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## NateC (21 May 2005)

My uncle who is Canadian served in Vietnam. He was in MACV:SOG, had three tours in Vietnam, and did cross-border operations into Cambodia and Laos.


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## CH1 (22 May 2005)

There was some 60,000 Canucks over there.  Some were ICCS, & other agencies. Some were in US forces, Aussie etc. There was even some in Canuck uniform on the line  (The forgotten ones.) The Cdn govt then as now still treats us as third rate.  Until as approx 10 yrs ago, Ottawa explicitly denied we were there, in any fashion.  Then some classified papers suddenly left the politico's with red faces.
Trudea was upset that the beans were spilt about the level of Cdn invovlement from arms & ammo to bodies in the field.
Cheers


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## Lineman052 (28 May 2005)

Just a little tid bit, General Dextraze who was a WW2 company and Bn commander and later became the Chief Of Defence Staff early 1970's lost a son in Vietnam.  I personally served with two Canadian Vietnam Vets in the 1970's who came back to the Cdn Army when I was an RCR one in the 2nd Bn and another in the 3rd Bn.     I know of some others through these men, that came back to Canada to share leason's learned from their perspective.


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## Black Watch (28 May 2005)

CH1 said:
			
		

> There was some 60,000 Canucks over there.   Some were ICCS, & other agencies. Some were in US forces, Aussie etc. There was even some in Canuck uniform on the line   (The forgotten ones.) The Cdn govt then as now still treats us as third rate.   Until as approx 10 yrs ago, Ottawa explicitly denied we were there, in any fashion.   Then some classified papers suddenly left the politico's with red faces.
> Trudea was upset that the beans were spilt about the level of Cdn invovlement from arms & ammo to bodies in the field.
> Cheers


Have you been there?


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## Mineguy (29 May 2005)

http://members.tripod.com/~Canadian_Vietnam_Vet/johnwblake.htm

Here is John Blakes story. Newfoundland Green beret and also of the 173rd AB and 75th Ranger Regt in Vietnam.

Better than the best!!!


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## CH1 (12 Jun 2005)

Response to Black watch.

I' ve been soldiering since 1968, & am on terminal leave.  The jungles over there are dense hot & humid.
The grass is taller than me in places & I'm over 6'.  Just last week in the States, ran into a door gunner, I met 30+ years ago.  We had a chance to salute those that didn't come home, & remember what it was like on the DMZ.  Unfortunately due to my sched, we did not pass the bottle & cigar. 

In short yes to your question.  You are a "cherry" with just a year behind your belt. A word of advice, be respectful to whom ever you question.  Even what I call the younger generation, has even more combat time than me & have earned the respect they are due.  Choose your words as carefully as your weapon.


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## Black Watch (12 Jun 2005)

CH1 said:
			
		

> Response to Black watch.
> 
> I' ve been soldiering since 1968, & am on terminal leave.   The jungles over there are dense hot & humid.
> The grass is taller than me in places & I'm over 6'.   Just last week in the States, ran into a door gunner, I met 30+ years ago.   We had a chance to salute those that didn't come home, & remember what it was like on the DMZ.   Unfortunately due to my sched, we did not pass the bottle & cigar.
> ...


I truly apologize if the vocabulary I used offnedeoffended didn't mean to hurt anyone.


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## rocky1fac (13 Jun 2005)

My Uncle served in the Nam as he would call it. He went in 63 as support advisor drivr and ended his tour in early 70,s after a single tour in Korea. In toll he racked up about 8 years in the place. Very bent when he came back and ended up dying of a rare brain tumour that we suspect was agent Orange related only a few years after he returned. He has some real good lines and he is a main reason I joined the force.
He had good stories about the early years on jumpimg into Hanoi outskirts (his first combat Jump) and being all concerned about shiting and pissing himself on the way down because he was so scared. You know its true when its that embarasing.
Other didis are how they were so much bigger (he was 6,4) and he said in close combat it was easier to grab the En by the throat and squeez the life out of them. And a good one about blow guns and snakes so big they eat the guard dogs.


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## the 48th regulator (13 Jun 2005)

CH1,

I too was ready to ask whether you served and where, but I was afraid the post sounded like I was challenging you, so I deleted it and said I would move on.

It is good to hear that you not only made it back but came home to continue to serve, as I am sure it must have took a long time to heal physically, but especially mentally.   I wasn't in Vietnam, heck I was not even born, but I have served overseas.

cheers and thank you for being on board, there are other members of the site that also served in Vietnam, on is a fellow named Jim Steed.  He also hosts a web site.

dileas

tess


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## Infanteer (13 Jun 2005)

rocky1fac said:
			
		

> In toll he racked up about 8 years in the place.



8 years in Vietnam; wow, that was quite a long time.  What was he doing?


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## rocky1fac (13 Jun 2005)

My Uncle served as a driver in the first advisor units to start. Later on due to his knowledge of the high lats of VN as the war pushed the activiites farther south he guided patrols inthe North and ended up near the end as an Armoured engineer bulding defenses. He was a member of the Cav He said that he always re-uped because he couldnt come home broke and evertime he was offered a reup and cash bonus plus R&R in Japan or Hawaii he just kept in the cycle. During the middle of his first 3 tours tours he was posted to Korea after that he volunteered to go back and did the final few tours til just before siagon feel. Best rank was Sgt and it would appear it went up and down alot. Inter mixed in some of theose tours was a brig time but then who hasent been in the s**t. It is a forgoten story our Canadians in VN I remember him leaving and his R&Rs home although few and his few years when he returned. He was never compensated for Agent O and that is what did him in.


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## Infanteer (13 Jun 2005)

So what unit did he jump into Hanoi with?


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## KevinB (13 Jun 2005)

Pardon me but...


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## ODA 564 (13 Jun 2005)

First, my sympathies for your loss.  Obviously you loved your uncle.

However, the chances of your description of his service being accurate is about as high as mine are of being PM of Canada (here's a hint, i'm a Yank, so it ain't happening).

As an advisor, he would not have been a driver.  Advisory teams were not staffed with administrative or support personnel for the advisory team's internal needs.  
  
Secondly, no non-SOG personnel ever made a combat jump into North Vietnam (Hanoi is in the former North Vietnam, which was the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Vietnam prior to 1975 and with the collapse of the South Vietnamese Republic of Vietnam in 1975 the entire country became the PDRVN).  To be in SOG and have made a combat jump into North Vietnam he would have had to have been in such a select group of highly qualified, extremely experienced Special Forces non-commissioned officers that he would have literally been one of a dozen.  

NO SOG operations were conducted into Hanoi.

There were several Special Forces combat jumps into South Vietnam (the Republic of Vietnam).  There was one conventional unit (airborne unit) combat jump in South Vietnam (OPERATION JUNCTION CITY).  

No armored cavalry or armored engineer units participated in these airborne operations (combat jumps) as airborne units.  Cavalry units in the US Army at the time were either armored cavalry, air cavalry (helicopter reconnaissance and attack helicopter) or infantry units in the 1st Cavalry Division that bore a historical designation as cavalry (as in "We Were Soldiers").

The US Army's standard tour in the Republic of Vietnam (RVN) was 12 months (one year).  This could be extended to 18 months by volunteering for an extension.  Personnel were required to spend a minimum of one year in CONUS (continental US) between overseas tours.

Some personnel did repeatedly extend their incountry tour but it was on a by-exception basis.  To serve 8 consecutive years beginning in 1963 means serving in RVN until 1971.   The chance of a soldier doing a tour and 14 extensions is so low as to not exist.

So a number of items as described do not add up.


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## Infanteer (13 Jun 2005)

Thanks for the supporting fire ODA 564.

rocky1fac, your story is so full of shit that it is leaking out at the seams.   Regardless of what your real story is, you've been a pain in the ass around here - this "Jumping into Hanoi" crap (hmmm....jumping into the most dense Air Defence system in history, ok) is over the top.

You can join TACSIT on the busride outta here.

Bye bye, troll.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Jun 2005)

ODA 564 - why do you say "14 extensions"?  Tours of duty in Vietnam were 12 months for Army personnel and 13 months for USMC personnel, no?  wouldn't that be 7 extensions?  It is Canadians who only do 6 month tours of duty.


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## MJP (13 Jun 2005)

Extensions of tours during Vietnam were in 6 months on top of your normal tour.


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## 1feral1 (13 Jun 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Thanks for the supporting fire ODA 564.
> 
> rocky1fac, your story is so full of shit that it is leaking out at the seams.



In fact my eyes turned brown reading it. Hanoi. Man, thats a new high in low for poser stories yet.

Cheers,

Wes


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## D-n-A (13 Jun 2005)

My father served in Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade(only for a few months) than he went to Charlie Company, Airborne Ranger, 75th, did one tour with two extensions. Served in the US Army from 1968-1973, left the Army as a E-5 Sergeant, earned the combat infantrymans badge, jump wings, bronze star, etc.



ODA 564, the only combat jump during the Vietnam War was made by the 173rd Airborne Brigade in 1967 as part of Operation Juncition City, I've never heard/seen anything on Special Forces soldiers making parachute jumps in the war.


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## Sharky (13 Jun 2005)

MikeL said:
			
		

> My father served in Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade(only for a few months) than he went to Charlie Company, Airborne Ranger, 75th, did one tour with two extensions. Served in the US Army from 1968-1973, left the Army as a E-5 Sergeant, earned the combat infantrymans badge, jump wings, bronze star, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ODA 564, the only combat jump during the Vietnam War was made by the 173rd Airborne Brigade in 1967 as part of Operation Juncition City, I've never heard/seen anything on Special Forces soldiers making parachute jumps in the war.




Just because you dont know about it dont mean it didnt happen. Here's a few for ya. More if you want em.

Date: 13 May 1967 Unit: Mobile Strike Force (Mike Force), 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne): Detachment A-503, Co's. 3, 4 & 5; 4.2 inch Heavy Mortar platoon & Hdqts. group. Water jump (0600 hrs.) at 700 ft.
Operation: Blackjack
Troopers: 486
Country: Vietnam (SW corner)
Drop zone: Seven Mountains ( Near Chi Lang, 1km S of Nuai Yai) Aircraft: C-123 Providers
Type Air delivery: Day Mass low-level tactical personnel static-line jump 


Date: 5 October 1967
Unit: 5th Special Force Group (ABN), 1st Special Forces: Pathfinder Detachment (12 SF, 37 ARVN Pathfinders), Co's 24 & 25, Detachment B-20, "B" Co II CTZ (Pleiku) Mike Force (50 SF) & 275 LLDB (Includes Montagnards)
Operation: Blue Max
Troopers: 374 with ARVN and Aussie Paras
Country: Vietnam
Drop zone: Bu Prang CIDG fighting camp, Quang Duc "Great Virtue" Province
Aircraft: C-130 Hercules
Type Air delivery: Day Mass low-level tactical personnel static-line jump 

Date: 1968-73?
Unit: Military Assistance Command Vietnam, Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG)Airborne Studies Group (SOG 36)
Operation: Eldest Son, Italian Green, Pole Bean
Troopers: ? to sabotage enemy ammunition supply
Country: North Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia
Drop zone: ?
Aircraft: C-130 Hercules or MC-130 Combat Talon
Type Air delivery: Night, High-Altitude, Low-Opening (HALO) jump 

Date: Three in 1970-71
Unit: Op 35, Command & Control North (CCN), Studies & Observation Group (SOG), High Altitude Low Opening team (HALO). Formerly classified.
Troopers: Country: North Vietnam Drop Zones: Ho Chi Minh Trail Aircraft: C-130 Hercules Type Air delivery: Night High Altitude Low-Opening (HALO)jump Jumped at 21,000 feet with oxygen, between 0001-0300 hours. Objective to close the Ho Chi Minh trail to NVA by calling in air strikes. Individually extracted by V rings on STABO harnesses worn by team members by helicopter lowering ropes/bridles using the STABO(Stabilized Tactical Airborne Operation) system. 
Operation: Team Florida. 9 troopers. Nov. 1970
Operation: Team Alaska. 9 troopers. Feb. 1971
Operation: Team One Zero. 4 troopers. 15 April 1971 
Also 13 separate static-line jumps.


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## 1feral1 (13 Jun 2005)

Welcome Sharky.

How about filling in some of your profile.

Regards,

Wes


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## Sharky (13 Jun 2005)

Happy to do it mate.


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## Sharky (13 Jun 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Welcome Sharky.
> 
> How about filling in some of your profile.
> 
> ...




Done. Have a goodun.


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## 1feral1 (13 Jun 2005)

Thanks and again welcome to the site.

Regards from Queensland,

Wes


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## Fishbone Jones (13 Jun 2005)

Welcome to all our friends from SOCNET. This can only make me lazier   ;D , I don't even have to switch between sites anymore!


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Jun 2005)

MJP said:
			
		

> Extensions of tours during Vietnam were in 6 months on top of your normal tour.



Ah, seen - thank you!


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## Lancer (13 Jun 2005)

:crybabyarn, late again. Sharky aleays has all the fun.


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## ODA 564 (14 Jun 2005)

Filled mine in too.

Sorry to have just dropped in.  Hard to be polite in a poseur fire mission.

And as noted above, a tour extension in RVN was six (6) months.

Sharky gave some details of some of the SF combat jumps in Southeast Asia.


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## paracowboy (14 Jun 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Welcome Sharky.
> How about filling in some of your profile.
> Regards,
> Wes


think "Infanteer", except short-tempered!  
 ;D


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## D-n-A (14 Jun 2005)

Sharky said:
			
		

> Just because you dont know about it dont mean it didnt happen. Here's a few for ya. More if you want em.



Didn't mean to come off saying they never happened, just that I've never heard/read of any, an if people post up stuff without any more info on it I kinda doubt it, like just saying MACV-SOG made jumps into Vietnam an leaving it at that is kinda vague, etc.  Thanks for posting the info on the SF drops.


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## CH1 (14 Jun 2005)

My apologies to every one.  This is still touchy as there is still ghosts there.  It comes back when some of us get to look back.  Even when you try to put it behind, it still haunts.  The times were different, & we were welcomed home as "Baby Killers". A lot different from the welcome home you younger generations get & deserve!  We served in a war that was unpopular & very restricted as to conduct in some cases.

Then as now you did not know whether your enemy was at your elbow or down range.

Also see-ing an old friend with major health problems from there also triggers some resentment.

Again my apologies for my comments.

Wes; hope the move went well.

Cheers


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## Infanteer (14 Jun 2005)

Well, it seems that my request for support from our neighbours at SOCNET came through.  Thanks for stopping by the neighbourhood, eh.


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## Sharky (14 Jun 2005)

MikeL said:
			
		

> Didn't mean to come off saying they never happened, just that I've never heard/read of any, an if people post up stuff without any more info on it I kinda doubt it, like just saying MACV-SOG made jumps into Vietnam an leaving it at that is kinda vague, etc.  Thanks for posting the info on the SF drops.





Mike.....no blood, no foul. It's good to be a bit sceptical on here, as I'm sure you dont need me to tell ya. It just came across as, ODA564 made the statement that it happened. Your statement said that it did not happen. You see where that leads I'm sure. At any rate, no harm done.


My best to your father. One of my best friends was with C/75 in RVN. By all accounts they were some bad motherfuckers. Good book out there about them also if you didnt know it.


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