# Smoking in General



## Irapliskin (26 May 2006)

Last year I attended camp and was at blackdown, and me and my MWO was given 3,  5-min breaks and i was wondering how you all felt about smoking at your home core?


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## -Robichaud- (26 May 2006)

this summer i went to whitehorse. now i am not sure how many other camps allow smoking, but if you have parental permission you can smoke in designated areas. is it just me or does this fell like it is going against the purpose the drug rule of the RCAC

tell me what you think

should summer camps allow smoking in cadets


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## Biggins (26 May 2006)

I'm pretty sure that smoking by any cadets at Pra CSTC is not allowed, even with parents permission. Not sure what the laws are in the other various provinces but I am also pretty sure that if you are under 18 you can't buy them either in Manitoba.


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## Burrows (26 May 2006)

Smoking is to be done in the smoking pit, and you need a form signed by your parents for it at Blackdown.


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## yoman (26 May 2006)

> CADET SUMMER TRAINING CENTRE
> (CSTC)
> 
> 7. The above guidelines for cadet corps must be
> ...



http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1322_b.pdf

The part about LHQ smoking is also in there.


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## Irapliskin (26 May 2006)

Yea, i was doing my annual review and my CO got a call from London, Ontario(Our sister Core)  and they said we could smoke but we needed a signed letter from a parent,  


And on our Cadet Id cards it says "Smoker" on the bottom left


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## ryanmann356 (28 May 2006)

-Robichaud- said:
			
		

> this summer i went to whitehorse. now i am not sure how many other camps allow smoking, but if you have parental permission you can smoke in designated areas.



You cannot smoke in Vernon at all.  Staff (officers) must smoke out of the view of cadets and anyone caught smoking anywhere, even in town, means RTU or extras or something.  I thought this was standard at all CSTCs


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## yoman (28 May 2006)

ryanmann356 said:
			
		

> I thought this was standard at all CSTCs



Nope. Check above.


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## Biggins (29 May 2006)

Considering the stance on Physical Fitness and Healthy Living, allowing cadets to smoke even with Parental allowance is irresponsible, and should be banned at the national level. Parents that allow their kids to smoke need to give their heads a shake.


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## foerestedwarrior (29 May 2006)

well lets see. It is illegal to buy smokes if you are under 18. It is illegal to give anyone underage smokes.....yet they allow it.....


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## qyrang (29 May 2006)

I find it completely disgusting and repulsive. Anyways it takes years off your life.... I don't want to die for a stupid reason like smoking . I'm also pretty sure that nobody else wants to die this way either, yet they still keep on doing it!!! Either way, I am completely against smoking in cadets or in public! It demeans the sanctity of cadets in general and tarnishes the image that the cadet movement has made for themselves. I'm not really into politics, but I really hope that smoking gets banned overall.


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## primer (29 May 2006)

It might not be allowed at your CSTC’s but I would rather have cadets that smoke be smoking in a designated smoking area not have them hide in a place that dos not have safety equipment. IE Butt can with sand or a water tube to safely deposit there discarded cigarette butts.


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## qyrang (30 May 2006)

Until the government does something to change this, I agree that its safer and more environmentally friendly. But only if they must


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## paracowboy (30 May 2006)

anybody that starts smoking that young is an idiot. Anybody that abuses nicotine at all (and here, I am guilty) is an idiot.

It kills you. Slowly, painfully, and it robs you of all dignity before it kills you.

It's expensive. Think of all the money you'd have to spend on the important things in life (girls) if you weren't forking over 10 bucks a day for something that kills you. 70 bucks a week. 210 dollars a month. Give or take. $210!

It makes you a worse soldier, not allowing you to stay awake as long, run as fast, shoot as accurately, communicate as clearly, or deal with stress as well. It is constantly wearing down your body's immune system, since you are constantly poisoning yourself, thus making you more susceptible to disease.

IT KILLS YOU.

Troops, I been trying to quit smoking and chewing tobacco for years. It's the most addictive substance going, next to crack cocaine. Please, troops, PLEASE don't start smoking, and if you already do, *PLEASE* quit. The sooner, and younger you quit, the easier it is, and the sooner your body can fight off the ill effects.

Thus endeth the sermon.


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## ryanmann356 (7 Jun 2006)

I agree that I dont think smoking has a place in cadets, however if you chose to start smoking its your choice.  Don't hate people who smoke.  I hate people who yell at smokers when they are smoking outside and not bothering anyone.  I smoked, but I have NEVER smoked on a cadet activity or infront or near cadets.  Never indoors or around children or things like that.   Yes it takes time off your life and hurts you, but its your choice to do it, and if someone smokes outside and isnt bothering anyone then its ok


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## Scott (7 Jun 2006)

Cadets should not be smoking, end of discussion and I will not entertain arguments to the contrary. If you are a Cadet smoker - QUIT NOW, before you get hooked! For that matter anyone who is a smoker should toss the bloody things.

Go check the Quitting Smoking Thread that I started with paracowboy's help. Maybe you'll see how many of us are hooked and want to quit but have a hard time because nicotine is so addictive.

ryanman,

I do not hate anyone. But if I were CIC or a CI and saw Cadets smoking I'd probably be leaving that job for smacking the smokers around. Cadet smokers deserve to be yelled at for being so damned stupid! Your argument about how its harmless is weak at best and not a very good example to set, I suggest you rethink it. Anyone who argues smoking being at all harmless is nothing short of being the village idiot - here is your jester's hat.

Maybe you put it out there the wrong way. Maybe you're just young and naive. Maybe it's a combination of the two. I suggest you clarify your stance and re-read para's statement then go and look at the thread I mentioned above.

Then give your head a shake.

Come back when you want to talk sensible.

Troops,

How loudly do we have to say it? How often must we repeat ourselves? We're not talking about biting your nails or picking your nose (which can have risks ;D) we are talking about something that *will* kill you and maybe those around you! I didn't start smoking for the vitamins in the things, I did it because I saw other adults doing it and thought I'd be grown up and cool if I did it. Guess what, I wasn't flattering or impressing anyone and neither will you.


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## qyrang (7 Jun 2006)

Just to reiterate.....    SMOKING IS NOT OK it will kill you. Also if you smoke, think about this second hand smoke is just as first hand smoke. It may be your choice, but remember there are non-smokes around you who don't wanna die that way(by second hand smoke). My grandma died when I was 7 and it hurt a lot. I don't believe that you or anyone else wants to hurt family and friends that way!


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## ryanmann356 (7 Jun 2006)

Scott said:
			
		

> ryanman,
> 
> I do not hate anyone. But if I were CIC or a CI and saw Cadets smoking I'd probably be leaving that job for smacking the smokers around. Cadet smokers deserve to be yelled at for being so damned stupid! Your argument about how its harmless is weak at best and not a very good example to set, I suggest you rethink it. Anyone who argues smoking being at all harmless is nothing short of being the village idiot - here is your jester's hat.



I never said it was harmless, I'm saying that if someone starts smoking its Their choice.  Don't hate people just because they smoke.  I said that if someone starts smoking its their choice!!!   Alcohol is addictive too and can hurt you but people still chose to drink. 
Don't hate people just because they smoke.  I agree with you 100% when you say smoking hurts your body, thats why I quit.  Some people's parents smoke but that doesn't make them hate their parents.  Yes smoking is stupid and yes it hurts your body, but if someone choses to start then its their choice.  



			
				Scott said:
			
		

> if I were CIC or a CI and saw Cadets smoking I'd probably be leaving that job for smacking the smokers around. Cadet smokers deserve to be yelled at for being so damned stupid!



Its their choice, not yours.  Let them do what they want, its no skin off your butt if someone starts smoking.  Don't forget either that tax money from cigarettes fund alot of things too.  This money benefits everyone.  
Smoking has no place in cadets but if its on their own time then its their choice.  I'm sure lots of your superiors smoke too but that doesnt make them stupid or ignorant.  

Now let me repeat myself again so everyone understands.  I never said smoking is harmless, if I said that then yes you could say those things you did to me, but I didn't so your comments are unjustified and unfair.


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## paracowboy (7 Jun 2006)

ryanmann356 said:
			
		

> I never said it was harmless, I'm saying that if someone starts smoking its Their choice.  Don't hate people just because they smoke.


what* are * you babbling about? Where did anyone call for hatred to be cast upon smokers? This is now a thread for nicotine addicts to relate their horror stories to kids in order to hopefully keep them off the weed. Anything else will NOT be tolerated. Period. The only reason I'm allowing your post to remain is so I may rebut. Any further posts describing smoking in anything less than a definite negative light will receive punishment. Are there any questions? If so, pm me.



> Its their choice, not yours.  Let them do what they want, its no skin off your butt if someone starts smoking.


  that attitude is repulsive. I would no more stand aside and allow children to smoke without making an attempt to stop it, than I would if they were placing a loaded firearm in their mouth. The fact that you care so little for the troops under you is a disgrace, and you, my little Platoon Comd, should immediately renounce any form of "Leadership" you may currently lay claim to. The welfare of the troops under your command is paramount. That attitude is disgusting.



> Don't forget either that tax money from cigarettes fund alot of things too.


  those funds are more than offset by the drain on the medical system from people DYING slowly. Hardly worth the pittance. And a pathetic attempt to excuse the trade of exporting death by slow and painful means.



> Smoking has no place in cadets but if its on their own time then its their choice.


  not if they are underage. Then, they have no choice under the Law.



> I'm sure lots of your superiors smoke too but that doesnt make them stupid or ignorant.


  no, it makes them addicts. If my superiors decided to suicide by swifter means, I would hardly emulate them. 



> your comments are unjustified and unfair.


he made the point of this thread very clear in his first post. You chose not to listen. Anything he said afterwards is more than justified. Your next post in this thread had better be an apology to Scott, and a promise to shut your gaping maw. Otherwise, do not post.

para-mod-boy


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## Rad (7 Jun 2006)

Why the argument? ???   Almost everyone knows how bad smoking is for you, and some people choose to do it anyways.  Instead of yelling at them, or smacking them around it would probably be better to take them aside and talk to them if you feel like giving your input.  I'm sure you'll find you'll get far better results.  

The fact is, at 16, if you so choose to smoke, you may.  It is illegal to buy them and to give them to minors, but if they "find some" then they can smoke them.  This is part of our freedoms as Canadians.  If I choose to smoke a cigar and you come and yell at me or "smack" me for it, then what would you expect me to do?  "Sorry Sir, I'll stop this right away!"   I don't think so.   Some people think drinking is just as bad, and I choose to do it anyways.  Does this make me stupid?  I don't think so.

In my oppinion, and it is just that, I don't think that the violent approach is the right one, nor should you force an appology out of someone for their own oppinions.  This is a discussion board and I think that people's oppinions should be respected even if not agreed with, no matter what the reason for disagreement (excluding racism, sexism and those sorts of things).

R.


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## Muir (7 Jun 2006)

I know with my corps there are a few smokers. My CO actually gave a huge lecture a couple of weeks ago due to the fact that some cadets were caught smoking during a cadet activity. He basically said that if you are on cadet time then you aren't smoking, and that means when your wearing any kind of uniform (uniform, PT gear, combats, etc) and are involved in an activity, whether it be a regular parade night, weekend, or summer training. And if you are wearing your uniform, no matter if your at home or whatever, you are not permitted to smoke.


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## paracowboy (7 Jun 2006)

Rad said:
			
		

> Why the argument? ???   Almost everyone knows how bad smoking is for you, and some people choose to do it anyways.  Instead of yelling at them, or smacking them around it would probably be better to take them aside and talk to them if you feel like giving your input.  I'm sure you'll find you'll get far better results.
> 
> The fact is, at 16, if you so choose to smoke, you may.  It is illegal to buy them and to give them to minors, but if they "find some" then they can smoke them.  This is part of our freedoms as Canadians.  If I choose to smoke a cigar and you come and yell at me or "smack" me for it, then what would you expect me to do?  "Sorry Sir, I'll stop this right away!"   I don't think so.   Some people think drinking is just as bad, and I choose to do it anyways.  Does this make me stupid?  I don't think so.
> 
> ...


because, we are talking about cadets. Children. Playing with substances that kill them. I will not, nor will any other moderator, tolerate anything that portrays smoking in anything but a negative light. From anyone. That is Standard across the board. 

This is a private site, discussion board or not, and there is a hierachy established by the site owner. Any deviation from the guidelines related to smoking will face repercussions. Period.

If it bothers you enough, take it up with the site owner.

As for physical violence, what are *you* babbling about? There was no reference to violence anywhere.


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Jun 2006)

para,

You'll come to realize that some of these kids will just not take no for an answer. They'll argue night is day simply because your an adult. Walk away, it's not worth it. They have no life experience and can't argue from a position of merit. May as well go argue with a tree.

For the rest. This is not a pro smoking or condone smoking thread. It's a quit smoking or don't start thread. We don't care about your charter rights or the legalities of smoking. Simply put. If you smoke (or dip) - quit. If you don't smoke (or use dip) - don't start. We'll not entertain any thing else in this thread. Try it, and your post gets wiped.


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## Rad (8 Jun 2006)

Now I didn't say "physical" violence, so what are *you* babbling about?  I did, however, say violence and...



			
				Scott said:
			
		

> I do not hate anyone. But if I were CIC or a CI and saw Cadets smoking I'd probably be leaving that job for smacking the smokers around.



There's your reference.  

Now it doesn't bother me at all, so I have no need to take it up with anyone.  Also, cadets are not children, they are young adults learning how to make their own decisions.

Let me also say that I'm not trying to argue with anyone or be hard to get along with, that's the opposite of what I want. You kind of put me on the spot though, and that's not why I posted my original post.  I wrote my opinion and I thought that would be the end of it. I apologize if I have offended anyone or if it came across as I condone smoking because I do not.

R.                                               *edited for spelling*


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Jun 2006)

Rad,

You've given your point. Drop it now.


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## ryanmann356 (8 Jun 2006)

I am not trying to argue with anybody or anything.  I am not encouraging anyone to smoke, I never said smoking was ok.  I have never talked about smoking to my troops or anything like that because it is not a problem in my corps.  I agree with everyone 100% that smoking is bad thats why I quit.  And I never ever encouraged it or said it was ok. 

 To put it simply, smoking has no place in cadets.

I am not trying to argue with anybody or get anyone angry, I was simply stating how I felt about the issue, I am sorry if I offended or made anyone angry this was not my intention.  I was simply stating how I felt about the issue.

I had no intention of making anyone angry or offending anyone, and I apologize if this was the case.


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## Michael OLeary (8 Jun 2006)

http://www.cadets.ca/about-nous/vision/vision_e.asp

*Vision and Objectives*


> The three aims of the Cadet Program are to:
> 
> * Develop leadership and good citizenship
> * *Promote physical fitness*
> * Stimulate an interest in the three elements of the Canadian Forces



If you are not making an effort to convince your Cadets that smoking is a poor lifestyle choice that will ultimately affect their health, or to help them quit if they've decided to start, then you are not upholding one of the three principle aims of the cadet program.


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## Scott (8 Jun 2006)

ryanmann356 said:
			
		

> I am not trying to argue with anybody or anything.  I am not encouraging anyone to smoke, I never said smoking was ok.  I have never talked about smoking to my troops or anything like that because it is not a problem in my corps.  I agree with everyone 100% that smoking is bad thats why I quit.  And I never ever encouraged it or said it was ok.
> 
> To put it simply, smoking has no place in cadets.



Up until this point you had me.



> I am not trying to argue with anybody or get anyone angry, I was simply stating how I felt about the issue, I am sorry if I offended or made anyone angry this was not my intention.  I was simply stating how I felt about the issue.
> 
> I had no intention of making anyone angry or offending anyone, and I apologize if this was the case.



You made me angry by saying that we shouldn't "hate" those who smoke and should allow them to make a decision that will kill them when they are probably not old enough to know any better!

I don't hate smokers, I don't hate anyone, quit bleating about it. As Michael pointed out, one of the aims is of Cadets is to promote physical fitness and that you, as a leader, should be encouraging your charges not to start smoking and to quit if they already have.

Rad,

Guess it was hard to detect sarcasm, eh? Read my other posts and try to find references to violence. I am sorry but anyone who thinks that was a comment made other than in jest needs their head examined. Cadets are young adults learning to make their own decisions, you're right, so when they wish to play in traffic or peer down the working end of a 12 gauge I guess we should just let them, right?

No matter, I can see you're going to make this thread your one great stand.

If you're a Cadet and you smoke - QUIT PLEASE.

If you're a Cadet and you think you should start - go hold your head underwater until the urge passes.

If you guys could listen to just one piece of advice that we could give you this would be it.


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## muffin (8 Jun 2006)

In Hoc Signo Vinces  ;D


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## qyrang (8 Jun 2006)

Plain and simple, smoking is bad. Nothing else, I am starting to think that that this is turning into a fight, so no more arguments.


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Jun 2006)

The last post sums it up. No need to keep this going.


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