# AIRPORT SECURITY IN 1A'S



## epdanir (15 Jun 2008)

Not sure what topic this should go under, But discuss.

I was wondering if anyone has travelled through airport security, after 9/11 in thier 1A's and if thier experiance is similar to mine.

Saturday went through security at halifax international airport in 1A's (on my way back from a funeral). 

The screener asks about my belt and I remove it.

My tunic has metal (name tags and buttons) ~ Not asked to be removed.

Go through scanner It goes off like an air raid siren.

He scans me, asks to pat me down .......... I allow but am not impressed as after all I have photo ID showing me in this same uniform.

Than asks me to remove my parade boots .........

So i says to him. " I realize your doing your job, but this uniform was issued my The Department of National defense and I assure you there is no bomb in my boots. Furthur more I have photo ID proving I'm in the Military and the picture shows me in this exact Uniform."

I remove them .......... really not impressed.

He seats me and scans my legs ...... now just plain pissed off, tell him that this is rather embarassing, to serve your country and be treated like a criminal.

Grab my boots put them on and take off. Now i realize he was doing his job, but it seems a tad odd for that kind of treatment to an active serving member. Anyone else have a similar issue or know the policy on security when it comes to uniformed members with valid ID showing thier active duty?


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## Sub_Guy (15 Jun 2008)

While I can appreciate your frustration, I would like to mention that faking a military ID card and hooking yourself up with a uniform would be pretty easy if you were determined to do so.

What if you were sent to test him?  He has to treat everyone the same regardless what you are wearing.   I felt the same (initially) way while leaving Winnipeg back in Feb, I practically got the full meal deal even though I used my military ID (not in uniform).  We had a great conversation during the whole thing, and when he was finished, he apologized for holding me up.  I just told him don't worry about it, you are doing your job, I should have also thanked him for the massage.


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## EW (15 Jun 2008)

Good on airport security for doing their job.  You on the other hand should not have been giving them any grief over having to do it properly.  There is only one 'legal' way that someone from the CF is ALLOWED to get any special treatment at airport screening, and that is if they have a courier certificate.  Not saying special treatment hasn't been given before, but that is a privilege extended at the moment, and should not be expected - a screener is putting his/her job at risk if they allow special treatment.  Not to mention a possible risk of being 'duped' and putting an aircraft at risk.  Besides, you don't think anyone from the CF hasn't "flipped out" before?

What would you do if the CF were called in to protect some piece of vital infrastructure in Canada?  Would you give a pass to someone who approaches your check point just because they are in a uniform - regardless if you recognize them or not?


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## TangoTwoBravo (15 Jun 2008)

I am sorry about the circumstances (coming from a funeral), but saying the word "bomb" in a conversation with airport security staff is not a good idea, nor is getting snippy with them because they are doing their job.


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## armyvern (15 Jun 2008)

I'm actually amused that you left your tunic and belt on despite the fact they didn't "ask" you to remove it. Doesn't the airport have signs saying "place all metal objects into container" posted? If not, it's the first airport that I'm aware of that doesn't. _(Aside: perhaps airport security guy was thinking to himself ... can this guy *not* read?? Why is he trying to make my day difficult?? Why is he "testing" me?)_

Given the bells and whistles adorning such -- it would have been the obvious move to make. That way, the sensors wouldn't have gone off like Westminster, and you'd probably have continued merrily upon your way.


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## prairefire (15 Jun 2008)

In 1976 as a young reserve cpl I was on security duty at Bromont Park equestrian centre when Princess Anne showed up with some of her staff? associates? aides?, (never did find out) They tried to enter without the correct credentials. While she was allowed to enter two of the individuals with her were not properly credentialed. I refused them entry got a verbal bollocking from her personal aide. I refused to back down and made them go to the credentials area to obtain the right ID\Passes. I was threatened with the usually don't you know who I am etc, we are going to take this up with your CO... etc etc. I figured I was in some deep deep sh-----! But I was following the orders we were given. Later on my Section Comd tells me that I have to report to the CSM's office and I figure that I am about to be hung drawn and quartered. Instead I was commended and told that the whole incident was observed and recorded by surveillance cameras and the aide to HRH was taken aside and threatened with having his credientials removed.  [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]*The man was doing his job. You never now when or where a threat may come from. He deserved your respect and support in making his job easier to do.  *  [/size] [/size] [/size] [/size]


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## Bert (15 Jun 2008)

I was in the same situation in 2004; the belt, the ankle boots, and tunic all had to come off.  The ankle boots have
a metal support shank embedded in the outer sole.


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## armyvern (15 Jun 2008)

They also happen to be lined with a steel toe.


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## George Wallace (15 Jun 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> They also happen to be lined with a steel toe.



???

Steel toe?  Mine are plain box toes..........and I don't want to ruin the shine I finally got, to test that they aren't.


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## Jorkapp (15 Jun 2008)

Travelling in LWCC is no better either. You stand a decent chance of having the metal grommets on the LWCC and/or MkIII boots set off the alarm. Thusfar my record is 2 alarms and 1 silent pass. Here's to hoping I can even the record on my way home.

At least with the alarms, the agents had a good sense of humour. They were joking with me about it, and despite the slight delay, sent me on my way with a laugh.


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## geo (15 Jun 2008)

Heh... 
I and a troop of sappers were returning from a Demolition exercise in Northern Quebec.
Show up at the airport & the whole troop (myself included) had to remove our combat boots & go thru airport security screening.
Security measures are there for EVERYONE.


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## George Wallace (15 Jun 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Heh...
> I and a troop of sappers were returning from a Demolition exercise in Northern Quebec.
> Show up at the airport & the whole troop (myself included) had to remove our combat boots & go thru airport security screening.
> Security measures are there for EVERYONE.



I guess they gave you the "By" on the 'Explosive sniffer'.   ;D


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## Ex-Dragoon (15 Jun 2008)

Agree with everyone else, frankly I am dismayed how you reacted to this individual doing their job. Not sure what your trade is but would you do your job half assed as you expected this person?


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## geo (15 Jun 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I guess they gave you the "By" on the 'Explosive sniffer'.   ;D



YTrust me, I had a bunch of people who were bitchin - but it was happy bitchin - cause they had jsut finished blowing a bunch of things up...... VERY Satisfying >


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## DiverMedic (16 Jun 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> Steel toe?  Mine are plain box toes..........and I don't want to ruin the shine I finally got, to test that they aren't.



Tis true.  I peeled the leather back accidentally one night in the mess and saw the steel.  Wrecked a perfectly good pair of boots, but felt comfortable wearing them as safety boots afterwards.  <-- Navy and we wore them as work boots way back when.

DM


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## DiverMedic (16 Jun 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I guess they gave you the "By" on the 'Explosive sniffer'.   ;D



Had some friends come back from an explosive course in Florida.  Some phone calls were made when explosive residue turned up on them by airport security.

DM


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## X-mo-1979 (16 Jun 2008)

My big question would be why you would travel in DEU anyway?When I travel with the military I never even bring army kit bags etc if I can help it.Why make yourself a target.

I've searched the same civilian at one VCP at least 10 times in one day.You never know.


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## chrisf (16 Jun 2008)

DiverMedic said:
			
		

> Had some friends come back from an explosive course in Florida.  Some phone calls were made when explosive residue turned up on them by airport security.
> 
> DM



I've seen the residue swab come up positive... only resulted in a thurough hand search.


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## Bzzliteyr (16 Jun 2008)

Had issues putting my radiation thingy through the scanners at Pearson before, they were understanding as I explained that I was coming home from overseas.  They offered to "sniff" it and I warned them there may be residue for obvious reasons.  After passing through with no issues, they began to ask all kinds of questions about what goes on over there, how we feel about our mission, etc.. I dazzled the young folks with pictures of HUGE pot plants and killed some stopover time with them. 

Then their boss came down and bitched at them for relaxing on the job.  I felt bad.  Meh, at least they were doing their job.  

That reminds me,

I did a ceremony at the National Field of Honour in Pointe-Claire on the 1st of June (Last Post Fund), the MPs were given direct orders to only let vehicles with passes through.  I show up with the branch manager of the Quebec branch (the guy in charge of the ceremony) and lo an behold, he has no pass for his vehicle.  After much negotiation, we got through.  Can't fault the boys doing their job.  WE told them to do it that way in our orders...


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## axeman (17 Jun 2008)

So there I was repatreated  early from Afghanistan  in 2002  by 2 weeks and was flown back ahead .  2 barracks boxes 1 rucksak webgear .flackvest w plates duffle bag. and small carry on . Present my Canadian Green passport. and get a "WELCOME TO CANADA , HOW LONG WILL YOU BE STAYING? " from there it went down hill. after gettting someone that speaks english as a Primary language i got to explain im returning from Ops and will be staying here in my home town in Edmonton when i get there. . How long sir . Christ man i live there . Why do you have a green passport ? its what they issued me  .Who issued the goverment im with the DND just getting back from Afghanistan .   .OH is this all yours. YUP all my fighting gear. all the stuff of the trade.  hey how long will this take i have another flight to make in 2 hours. ?  well we' will see if you can make that flight   want to pop all those locks off ad let us look ? not if you dont want to make me miss my flight ..  etc in the end after getting the assisnt chief there i was allowed to only open my day bag ruck sack and then xray everything.  i had the why are there explosives in your kit  probably from all the crap i blew up on the range.... what a pain that airport is maybe if they were originally from this country i might have less hassles getting back into our country


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## Harley Sailor (17 Jun 2008)

I know for a fact that most of the men that work at the Halifax airport security are retired navy and know all about what metal is in a uniform.


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Jun 2008)

Sometimes its quicker to wait in the longer line for the english person.  Yes I know it may come across as racist.


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## adaminc (17 Jun 2008)

I wouldn't call it racist as it has nothing to do with race, but comfortability of speaking to someone and having them understand you completely and the same vice-versa. Makes things more efficient.


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## armyvern (17 Jun 2008)

axeman said:
			
		

> So there I was repatreated  early from Afghanistan  in 2002  by 2 weeks and was flown back ahead .  2 barracks boxes 1 rucksak webgear .flackvest w plates duffle bag. and small carry on . Present my Canadian Green passport. and get a "WELCOME TO CANADA , HOW LONG WILL YOU BE STAYING? " from there it went down hill. after gettting someone that speaks english as a Primary language i got to explain im returning from Ops and will be staying here in my home town in Edmonton when i get there. . How long sir . Christ man i live there . Why do you have a green passport ? its what they issued me  .Who issued the goverment im with the DND just getting back from Afghanistan .   .OH is this all yours. YUP all my fighting gear. all the stuff of the trade.  hey how long will this take i have another flight to make in 2 hours. ?  well we' will see if you can make that flight   want to pop all those locks off ad let us look ? not if you dont want to make me miss my flight ..  etc in the end after getting the assisnt chief there i was allowed to only open my day bag ruck sack and then xray everything.  i had the why are there explosives in your kit  probably from all the crap i blew up on the range.... what a pain that airport is maybe if they were originally from this country i might have less hassles getting back into our country



Geez, my experience was just soooooooo much nicer than yours!! I'll guess it's my charm and red hair!!  ;D

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66131/post-615193.html#msg615193


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## EW (17 Jun 2008)

I suspect that CBSA has gone through its share of growing pains since 9/11; which included a rush to hire staff/contractors who were less than 100% up to their job, or who required a long learning curve.  Somewhat like the CF in Afghanistan.

I travel through a lot of airports and have found a marked difference in security/CBSA now, from what it was in 2001/2002.  Heading back to Afghanistan in 2003 I managed to 'swipe' positive for the explosive residue test at the Ottawa airport.  The results were kind of comical.  The CBSA/contractor folks were very 'cool' once they heard where I was heading back to, and where the bag had been.  They were very professional, and even asked if I didn't mind being slightly delayed so they could use this as a training experience for some of their new staff.  With an hour until my flight, I told them to fill their boots, just make sure I get my bag back.  It had presents for folks in theatre.


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## OldSolduer (17 Jun 2008)

Security matters shouldn't be contracted out to the lowest bidder.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jun 2008)

Came home via Dubai to Detroit, USA. In civies. Stood in line with the rest of the cattle. Got shuffled into another line. Walked up to US immigration booth, handed over my green (Canadian) passport. 10 second look at me, my passport and a look down at my bags. "Welcome home & thanks" stamped my book and an airport courier carried my bag to the front door, walked me to the front of the line and put me in the first cab. Same going back out. They couldn't do enough for me, even though I was coach, they gave me all the perks of first class (except the seat  )


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## X-mo-1979 (17 Jun 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Came home via Dubai to Detroit, USA. In civies. Stood in line with the rest of the cattle. Got shuffled into another line. Walked up to US immigration booth, handed over my green (Canadian) passport. 10 second look at me, my passport and a look down at my bags. "Welcome home & thanks" stamped my book and an airport courier carried my bag to the front door, walked me to the front of the line and put me in the first cab. Same going back out. They couldn't do enough for me, even though I was coach, they gave me all the perks of first class (except the seat  )



Same with me.
I came in via Ottawa,the customs guys waved me out of the cattle line into a side booth.Thought I was going to get searched.Seen my passport and asked where I was coming from. I told him and he said that's what him and his friend had thought by my appearance.Asked me the usual questions that were needed,and when he got to tobacco and wine I told him I had 8 cartons of smokes.He then ticked off 2 cartons and welcomed me back.


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## Gramps (17 Jun 2008)

Some people will have to realize that being in the CF does not get you any special treatment at an airport. My trade creates the need to travel to many different places throughout the globe. I have been searched by every security counter I have gone through regardless if I was on the crew list for a military flight or travelling by commercial means. We were in Bermuda a copuple of years ago and were quite extensively searched before going to the aircraft eventhough we were only one of two aircraft on the ramp at the time and were all on the crew list. If you get searched in Trenton, Greenwood, Winnipeg or any other Military terminal then why should you expect to get a free pass in a commercial terminal?


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## geo (17 Jun 2008)

Meh... It's the equivalent of someone who is a LEO - gets stopped for speeding OR alcohol - and hopes that the flash of a badge, a nod or a wink - and you get to play your "get out of jail" card.

It doesn't work that way.  You will be & you should be held to no less a standard than everyone else.


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## Neill McKay (17 Jun 2008)

I imagine the days when wearing a military uniform in public would get you much more than a free coffee at Tim Horton's on Remembrance Day are mostly gone, stand fast a few stories shared in this thread.  Anybody working in a security role is likely to have to account to his or her supervisor for any bending of the rules, and besides that there's no guarantee that a CF uniform will be recognized in the first place: haven't we all seen sailors mistaken for Commissionaires or air force members mistaken for bus drivers?  (I saw this happen to an air force LCol once!)

There's a story, maybe true or not, about the MARLANT of the day taking his dog for a walk in the Halifax dockyard on a Sunday morning in civilian clothes.  He was, so the story goes, challenged by a quite junior-ranking person and replied along the lines of "Don't you know who I am?  Well you should!"  If the story is correct, the Admiral sought to have this lad charged over it, but was dissuaded with the explanation that it would probably discourage anyone else from challenging an unknown person in the dockyard and take a significant bite out of the security there.

True or not, it does provide an example of why airport security staff have to stick to the book -- however unreasonable the book may seem to be.


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Jun 2008)

My wife and I recieved a free meal a couple days before Nov 11 last year.  One of the rare times I wore my uniform actually.


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## McG (17 Jun 2008)

All,
It is clear that epdanir took the wrong approach in this incident.  That position has been made clear now by the many comments.  There is no requirement for respondents to become beligerant & demeaning in pointing this out to him.

If your post is missing, it is becease it fits the above and resulted in the moderators recieving a handful of complaints.

Cheers,
The Staff.


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## danchapps (17 Jun 2008)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> There's a story, maybe true or not, about the MARLANT of the day taking his dog for a walk in the Halifax dockyard on a Sunday morning in civilian clothes.  He was, so the story goes, challenged by a quite junior-ranking person and replied along the lines of "Don't you know who I am?  Well you should!"  If the story is correct, the Admiral sought to have this lad charged over it, but was dissuaded with the explanation that it would probably discourage anyone else from challenging an unknown person in the dockyard and take a significant bite out of the security there.



It reminds me of the story Of Gen. Hillier at a base somewhere on the Atlantic coast (can't remember where exactly), where he was challenged for the password of the day and didn't know it. Story states that the young MP then proceeded to tackle the CDS. All that was said by the General was "Goon on ya bye, you were just doing your job." I think it was in a thread somewhere else here, but I'm not too sure where. Point being is that security is there for a reason, and these folks are just doing their job. It happens, but they do try to accommodate when they can.


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## Bzzliteyr (17 Jun 2008)

Of course the standard procedure is to not use the challenge if you recognize the person you are challenging as it just risks someone else hearing and compromising it..


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## jzaidi1 (17 Jun 2008)

OK,

Airport security aside - when I did travel in uniform I never had any issues and recieved LOTS of compliments from Granmas (mind you this was Pre-911).  

One time - was driving along in my Pathfinder and I was pulled over by 4 cop cars.  With spotlights blinding me and guns drawn they ordered me out of the car (I'm a brown guy driving in an upper-class neighborhood in Toronto).  I was ordered to the ground face first and one officer asked permission to reach in and grabbed my wallet while the other cops searched my vehicle.  Visibly pissed off I asked what was going on.  They tell me they are looking for someone that matches my profile (dark I guess) and vehicle description.  Anyway, when the officer saw my military ID he whistled to his boys and they came over and took a look.  With wide eyed policia looking at each other a little surprised, I was quickly helped up, brushed off, apologized to profusely and then I spent a good 10 minutes chatting with the fellows.  Basically there was a rash of break-ins during the week with witnesses identifying a Maroon coloured Pathfinder fleeing in one instance driven by a fellow with similar profile to myself minus the glasses.  Point being...the CF ID cards carries weight wherever you go but you'll always be subject to scrutiny by civilian law enforcement and you just have to play along nicely.  Although ticked off at the time I understand they were just doing their jobs.

True story...

J


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## mover1 (17 Jun 2008)

In December I bumped into and old buddy of mine in the Winnipeg airport. He was working security and we got to catch up on some old times as he patted me down. Last time I saw him was in Germany and he was my driver. He still made me take off my shoes though.

But ...Here is some tips for you guys the next time you travel. 
Wear soft shoes.
Loose realaxing clothing (leave the studded belt with the rodeo belt buckle at home)
Take your jacket off put it through the x ray machine.
Smile and be nice.
While you are waiting in line to go through security take the time to go through all your pockets and put your junk in your carry on (nothing worse than some tool who has change in his pocket)
Speaking of tools. Does anyone else play the game "spot the army guy" at the airport. I usually try to go incognito but I can pick out the army dudes a mile away


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## Bzzliteyr (17 Jun 2008)

Pearson is easy to play that game in.. they all hang out in the same spot!!  You can play that game in the malls near bases too..


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## PuckChaser (18 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> You can play that game in the malls near bases too..



Is it cause they all go shopping while wearing smallpacks?  ;D


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## King Elessar (18 Jun 2008)

i got off real easy on my recent flight from Winnipeg to Vancouver. i'm not in the Armed Forces, but my interview is June 24th for Infantry ;D.

my sister and I were flying out to BC to visit our Dad, going through security in Winnipeg i got asked if the security agent could search through my carry on bag. i gave him permission and he found my Swiss army knife that i thought i had lost. i swear i went through the bag before i packed it :-[ i expected to be hauled away and strip searched with a cavity search. The guy was cool about it and asked what i wanted to do with it. i just relinquished it to the Government, and was on my way. it would have cost me $5 a day to hold it in a locker, i was gonna be gone for 2 weeks. knife wasn't worth that much hehe.


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## armchair_throwaway (18 Jun 2008)

King Elessar said:
			
		

> i gave him permission and he found my Swiss army knife that i thought i had lost. i swear i went through the bag before i packed it :-[ i expected to be hauled away and strip searched with a cavity search.



Also not in military yet...
I was moving back to Vancouver from Calgary and packed THREE scissors and a metal skate tool in my carry on luggage without much thought, as I was more concerned about having liquid/lotion in the luggage than anything else.

Suffice to say, I was instantly stopped at the x-ray machine. The lady just asked if I was moving (also had a lot of kitchen utensils around) and let me go after confiscating the sharp, metal objects. Nothing else was done, I thought that was pretty lucky...and stupid of me.


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## Pte.Butt (18 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Pearson is easy to play that game in.. they all hang out in the same spot!!  You can play that game in the malls near bases too..



 I was in Pearson about 2 weeks ago, it is phenomenal, the amount of small packs I saw! At least a platoon worth, and they weren't all gaggle'd together so I don't think it was a course or an actual platoon . It was kind of cute actually! LOL


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Jun 2008)

They'll take away your nail clippers, but not that pocketful of needlepoint Ebehard Faber 9H pencils. The ones you can shove through a sternum, throat or eyesocket , Just make sure you wear glasses and have a pocket protector in the shirt that's buttoned up to your neck. ;D


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## Kat Stevens (18 Jun 2008)

On my last flight, I arrived at my hotel and unloaded my laptop, and about 8 different power cords for various applications.  Any one of then could be used as a garrote in the blink of an eye.  Even a headset cord would work, and the airline even sells them to you.


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## X-mo-1979 (18 Jun 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> On my last flight, I arrived at my hotel and unloaded my laptop, and about 8 different power cords for various applications.  Any one of then could be used as a garrote in the blink of an eye.  Even a headset cord would work, and the airline even sells them to you.



How are you going to hold people hostage with a cord?Stop or I'll apply pressure!


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## Kat Stevens (19 Jun 2008)

Probably the same way the killer nail clipper would work, or the deadly ninja disposable lighter, or the insidious hand sanitizer.  Or the way three airplanes were taken over and steered in to highly populated buildings by the tactical use of the box cutter, C1A2.  And you can compel others to do things they might not want to do if you have a third party turning purple in your grasp.  But you're obviously right, bad people don't have that kind of imagination.


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## aussiechangover (19 Jun 2008)

although i've only ever been through airport security once in combats and got stopped for the alarms and whistles because of my boots the guard appologised and just asked me to remove my boots becuase of the metal and just scanned them with the wand. funny thing was he didn't care that i'd forgotton to remove the gerber from my belt. overall I know they have a job to do and just take it all in stride


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## Rodahn (19 Jun 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> But you're obviously right, bad people don't have that kind of imagination.



Actually Kat, if you remember back to the days, us twisted and warped ones, are far better at booby traps and IED's . Unfortunately there are some rather twisted bad people out there.....


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## medicineman (19 Jun 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Probably the same way the killer nail clipper would work, or the deadly ninja disposable lighter, or the insidious hand sanitizer.  Or the way three airplanes were taken over and steered in to highly populated buildings by the tactical use of the box cutter, C1A2.  And you can compel others to do things they might not want to do if you have a third party turning purple in your grasp.  But you're obviously right, bad people don't have that kind of imagination.



Pre 9/11, I was going through Montreal on the way up to Iqualuit on a med support job.  The guys on First Air were asking some screening questions - the main concern was if I had tape - more specifically gun tape - in my med bag.  If I did, I wouldn't be able to take it as carry on.  I did however have scalpels, large scissors, big IV needles, some morphine autoinjectors, and other interesting tools of my trade with me, but they were alright for some odd reason  :??!!  The irony was it was a part cargo/part people flight and the cargo was at the forward part of the aircraft (a 727), so I'd have had to fight my way through it to take over the flight deck anyway - with my little scalpel or IV needle as my weapon...

MM


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

I've been through numerous screenings at airports and it drives me nuts. I know that the personell manning the screening areas are doing a thankless job, but it doesn't make it any easier.

I went through Vienna and Amsterdam in 1993 and was questioned in detail at each airport, not only by the screening people (all armed) but the airline people as well. We were all subjected to pat down searches. Somehow I was a bit more comfortable with that appraoch.


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## dglad (19 Jun 2008)

While passing through an unnamed airport in Canada, my wife happened to mention something about her knitting and the fact she wished she could bring it along on the flight, for something to do.  The reply she got from the CATSA folks was that knitting needles were fine to bring, as long as they actually had knitting on them.  She asked them to confirm; they confirmed.  Apparently, a few yards of kashmir wool turns a foot long length of sharply pointed steel from a potentially lethal instrument into an, "oooh, isn't that pretty?  You go right on board and finish that sock, and have a good day" sort of thing.

As for explosives, we in the military aren't alone in our troubles.  Mining contractors (I came from the mining business, so I know more than a few)  are constantly getting pinged with positive hits on their baggage, clothes and even skin and hair.  If you work with explosives day in and out, traces will come to permeate your person.  Mining guys have generally accepted this and identify themselves as soon as they hit security.

I agree that the guy was doing his job in the OPs post.  When I travel in uniform, DEU or combats, I stand ready to do whatever the security folks ask me to do (well, within reason).  That includes taking off my boots.  I look at this way...I'm putting on a public face for the army, so the way I behave and react matters.  If I'm cooperative, then I like to think it becomes a bit of an example for those around me.  I've actually had other passengers express dismay at my being searched ("he's a soldier, for pete's sake!") but I just tell them not to worry, that I shouldn't be treated any differently, and thank them.  It helps with the footprint in the community thing.


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## scoutfinch (19 Jun 2008)

You know what drives me nuts at airports????  Not accepting my DND ID as government ID for the purposes of boarding an aircraft because it doesn't have state my gender. :threat:


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## catalyst (19 Jun 2008)

Is that the perm ID? because I use my temp id to get on the plane all the time without issue (helped out when I lost my DL)


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## scoutfinch (19 Jun 2008)

Permanent ID.  I had the great pleasure of travelling the first weekend after the new ID policy was implemented by Transport Canada and they wouldn't accept it.  Then, sanity returned and the airports were accepting it but doing so contrary to the written policy.  Then, a month I ago I was flying out of Halifax while it was undergoing security exercises and they wouldn't accept it again... the counterstaff apologized. 

I found out later there were good reasons (ie. counter staff being under observation for the exercise, exercise control planting people with fake/insufficient ID) for the counter staff to enforce the policy.

At the end of the day, the problem is not with the counter staff.  It is with the policy.


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## catalyst (19 Jun 2008)

And the poor counterstaff don't make the policy...they just inforce it. 

I've had my share of 'interesting' security experiences.....the best was having my pipes go thorugh French security, or explaining why I had my boots in my backpack. 

I've flown a few times in uniform, although its always been short order.


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## George Wallace (19 Jun 2008)

OK!  That was getting ugly, so I removed a few posts from a couple of people.

LET"S KEEP IT CLEAN.


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## Rodahn (19 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> How are you going to hold people hostage with a cord?Stop or I'll apply pressure!



X-mo;

Would you please use proper punctuation in your comments, trying to read your posts without proper spacing between sentences is rather difficult. (Just a personal observation).


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## Bzzliteyr (19 Jun 2008)

Here's one that i think we can all worry about:  Lack of standardization.  Why can I get through one place with no issues yet in another I am scrutinized for something.  You'll find that big time when you pop through several countries/airports.  Wearing one civvy outfit leaving Canada with no security issues, then it beeping (due to a tiny magnet in the attached plastic belt) when I go through security at another Commonwealth country.  I mean, I have no problems with it but I am sure in some places, knitting needles would NOT be allowed.. no questions.


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## medicineman (19 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Here's one that i think we can all worry about:  Lack of standardization.  Why can I get through one place with no issues yet in another I am scrutinized for something.  You'll find that big time when you pop through several countries/airports.  Wearing one civvy outfit leaving Canada with no security issues, then it beeping (due to a tiny magnet in the attached plastic belt) when I go through security at another Commonwealth country.  I mean, I have no problems with it but I am sure in some places, knitting needles would NOT be allowed.. no questions.



Forget other countries - how about other airports within Canada - go through Toronto and got everything but a jelly finger, same day, another airport (Wpg), same clothes and carry on, no bells and whistles - what gives?  However, Winnipeg is the only place I've been through three times in the same day (long story), the third time through, a grid lock, plane being held for me and 3 other people and this time they decide to search my carry on - and the explosive sniffer did it's $25 million happy dance.  'Twas a long day.

MM


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## Bzzliteyr (19 Jun 2008)

I wanted to be generic but yes, Canadian standardization is lacking as well..


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

I've been through Winnipeg several times (I live there) and have never had a problem. 
I would encourage you though, to not use your CADPAT patrol packs as carry on. They are a dead...(excuse the pun) giveaway.
I remember in the 80's, three USN divers were murdered by terrorists because they were not carrying passports, but USN ID cards only, in the Middle East. The ID cards were their death warrants.
I don't mean to cast a pall over this thread, but if you are travelling internationally, the blue passport is the the best document. Within Canada, use the driver's license first, with the military ID as a backup. If a terrorist cell knows you are military, you'll be the first targetted for death.


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## Bzzliteyr (19 Jun 2008)

I never thought of that..I like to flash it to impress the ladies.. but I'd hate to die because of it.  On a side not, does my Kandahar ball cap count as well?  I mean, I can always pretend my brother gave it to me...

When I am boarding at a gate, I kind of use it to inform the crew of who I am so if they need me for anything they kind of know ahead of time.


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

The best way to info the crew is to let them know when you board. 
Many years ago, some members of the CAR went to England to go on ex with the Paras. They showed up at Heathrow, wearing CAR t-shirts and the Paras politely told them to get those shirts off.....they wer making targets of themselves due to IRA threats.
While the IRA didn't like Brit Army to start with, they particularly hated the Paras and the SAS.
My lesson is.....try not to wear anything that ID's you as a military member while travelling on civvy air. Blend in with your surroundings as much as possible. I understand its a hard thing to swallow, but, for your safety.....


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## Old and Tired (19 Jun 2008)

I don't mind the security and the checks.  I do wish, as others have stated that there was a little more uniformity in it but what can you do.  What does bother me in a big way are the people that work for CATSA.

Going on Ex in the States not so long ago, We were using a comercial Airport, but were getting on a DND Airbus.  150 troops with rifles, pistols all the usual tools of the trade for a Light Inf Coy.  The CATSA lady looks at all the junk I have and without blinking tells me I can't take a Gerber on the Aircraft.  Appearantly a rifle and pistol is not a big deal, but the gerber had to go. (Air movements guys are just shaking there heads at this point and shrugging)

Canada Customs are not better, in many ways worse:

I was returning from a tour as a one off, I land in TO and had to clear customs.  Standing there in Freshly issued DEU 3, nice Canadian Flag on the arm, GREEN passport, Military ID Card and a DND Courier Certificate.  All this gets presented to the Canada Customs agent.  First words I hear "Welcome to Canada, How long will you be staying in My country have a nice visit."


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

That is one thing I agree with Old and Tired. They pay these people next to nothing, consequently you get the lowest qualified applicants. Anyone with any sense or potential move on to the police etc.
CBSA (some of them) need a good swift kick.....in the a$$


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## George Wallace (19 Jun 2008)

Old and Tired said:
			
		

> I was returning from a tour as a one off, I land in TO and had to clear customs.  Standing there in Freshly issued DEU 3, nice Canadian Flag on the arm, GREEN passport, Military ID Card and a DND Courier Certificate.  All this gets presented to the Canada Customs agent.  First words I hear "Welcome to Canada, How long will you be staying in My country have a nice visit."



I had that happen, except it was not "Welcome to Canada", but "Welcome to My Country" in a strong Pakistani accent.  I wondered what country I was defending.

I guess 'old' habits are hard to break.


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## J.J (19 Jun 2008)

> That is one thing I agree with Old and Tired. They pay these people next to nothing, consequently you get the lowest qualified applicants. *Anyone with any sense or potential move on to the police etc.
> CBSA (some of them) need a good swift kick.....in the a$*$



OldSolduer,
Can you elaborate or expand what you mean by this. As a CBSA Officer I take this as an insult. I know I may be a lowly qualified CBSA (not quite to the Police standard), but the RCMP thinks I am qualified enough to teach or re-qualify their ERT, Air Carriers and GD members on use of force etc...

Please enlighten me.


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## medaid (19 Jun 2008)

I echo WR's sentiments. I worked as a PIL bot at an airport as a CBSA member. Do tell, I am more then interested in what you've got to say.


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

I'm not referring to CBSA as a whole, just some individuals who are somewhat less than professional. They are rude and appear to be arrogant when dealing with the public. When I go through Customs to gain entry back in to Canada from an overseas mission, and get treated with derision and disdain by one of your officers, it casts a pall over all of you.
I apologize if I have insulted you in any way, shape or form.


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## J.J (19 Jun 2008)

Stereotypes are OK in your world? ???
I guess I can say the same thing when I was in Winnipeg last week and I got cut off in traffic ...everyone from that city is a bad driver and are asshats...or I can say I have met a couple of less than stellar CSM's, so they must all be abusive and low brow....or I can say many other things, but what an intelligent person does  is differentiate between a few bad apples and the majority. If you judge 6500 + Officers from a couple of negatives interactions. How is that fair? Or if most of your dealings with the CBSA are negative...could it be your fault????  :


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## King Elessar (20 Jun 2008)

WR said:
			
		

> Stereotypes are OK in your world? ???
> I guess I can say the same thing when I was in Winnipeg last week and I got cut off in traffic ...everyone from that city is a bad driver and are asshats...or I can say I have met a couple of less than stellar CSM's, so they must all be abusive and low brow....or I can say many other things, but what an intelligent person does  is differentiate between a few bad apples and the majority. If you judge 6500 + Officers from a couple of negatives interactions. How is that fair? Or if most of your dealings with the CBSA are negative...could it be your fault????  :



but everyone from Winnipeg are bad drivers and most are asshats, that's not a stereotype


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## Bzzliteyr (20 Jun 2008)

I was going to mention the competency of Montreal drivers but figured everyone knows about Quebec already!!


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jun 2008)

Ya gotta love the broad brush  ;D


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## PO2FinClk (20 Jun 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I had that happen, except it was not "Welcome to Canada", but "Welcome to My Country" in a strong Pakistani accent.  I wondered what country I was defending.


Been there and lived that as well. We were still wearing our UN Blue beret's in TO when I was told the "Welcome To My Country". This is where I politely stated the obvious, "You see that my passport is Canadian, that I am in the Canadian military?, Yes he responded and I simply replied "The perhaps saying Welcome Home vice of being in your country would be more suitable do you not agreee?". He nodded, apologized and from that point on simply said Welcome Home to all the others.


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## OldSolduer (20 Jun 2008)

Did any of you notice the apology for my wording? No....you didn't notice.

I said that some CBSA were rude and less than professional and that when that happens they cast a pall over all CBSA. 
We in the military are told that ALL THE TIME. What you do in uniform reflects on all.


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## J.J (20 Jun 2008)

I guess I missed that briefing in that you should be afforded special treatment whenever you reenter Canada. We as an Agency will try harder next time. We try to be perfect, but sometimes we fail.   :'(
Please accept heartfelt  apologies from Stephen Rigby.  :


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## geo (20 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I was going to mention the competency of Montreal drivers but figured everyone knows about Quebec already!!


If you can't drive in Montreal, you Can't drive in Rome, Paris, New York .... and a couple of other places where no one appears to know what the turn signals and brakes are designed for...


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## George Wallace (20 Jun 2008)

WR said:
			
		

> I guess I missed that briefing in that you should be afforded special treatment whenever you reenter Canada. We as an Agency will try harder next time. We try to be perfect, but sometimes we fail.   :'(
> Please accept heartfelt  apologies from Stephen Rigby.  :



I don't know about briefings, but one would think the obvious Canada Flag and CF accoutraments on the "Uniform", would clearly identify a person as not being a foreign visitor.


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## PO2FinClk (20 Jun 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't know about briefings, but one would think the obvious Canada Flag and CF accoutraments, would identify a person as not being a foreign visitor.


Not that more would be required, but you forgot about the Canadian Passport with states your Canadian Citizenship.


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## scoutfinch (20 Jun 2008)

At the end of the day, I don't think it matters if you showed up with all the supporting documentation in the world and wrapped in the flag, everyone should be subject to the same initial standard of investigation.  Plain and simple.  No special treatment for anyone.


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## medaid (20 Jun 2008)

Okay, now, the CBSA member who had said "welcome to my country" is a douche. There is a standard bilingual greeting that is supposed to be used at all ports of entry and that is "Hello, Bonjour, can I have your Customs declaration card, passport and tickets please" the bilingual greeting is only in the initial hello/bonjour part. Keeping it professional has always been the key. Saying "welcome to my country" would've landed you a smack down from the Superintendent where I worked. There are allot of douche bags no matter what you do and where you work. But the majority of CBSA members strive to be the best LEOs that they can be. Now, whenever I saw a green passport or a uniform along with docs showing that they're returning home from overseas I always add "welcome home" to them after I've concluded my screening. In fact I do that to ALL Canadians. 

Now, this is not to be abused but the next time you re-enter Canada, if you feel you've been unjustly treated, ask to speak with the member's supervisor. This is usually a Superintendent either on PIL or in Secondary. 

We're not all bad people, we just react to your attitudes. OS, it sucked that you had a bad experience, but ce la vie, hopefully the next member you come across is gtg.


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## Strike (20 Jun 2008)

> ...we just react to your attitudes.



That explains why I almost got hauled away going through Toronto customs once.   :  Came back from a wonderful vacation, smiling to myself, in my own little world.  Getting my bags and smile at the one agent hanging about, keeping an eye on things.  Say hello, since we have made eye contact.

"What are you looking at?" is the more than terse response.
"Nothing, I just said hi.  Maybe next time I'll keep my mouth shut," says I, as I'm a little shocked at his response.
"Maybe next time you should just mind your own business."

MedTech, I know that not everyone is a douche bag, but it's the reaction of others like that power hungry little SOB, who thinks he owns that little patch of ground he is standing on, that ruin it for everyone else.

Better story:
Coming back from Florida, via Syracuse.  Driving across the border at 2230, my niece is fast asleep in the back seat.  Guy comes to the window.  He's obviously not impressed that he's working nights.  Sees the niece asleep and a little smile cracks his face.
"Shhh, don't want to wake the little princess in the back seat."  We then proceed to whisper to each other the normal questions/answers that you get at the border.
THAT made me smile for the rest of the drive home.
A little remark can really change someone's day.


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## medaid (20 Jun 2008)

Scout, that's really unfortunate that you had that idiot n the floor interact with you that way. I completely see why CBSA has a bad rep most of the time. The good ones get snappy back at people who keeps on bashing CBSA but never realising that they've heard it all before. Again and again... They get bashed more then Police members do ;D. In the end, piss poor attitudes are what brings down the agency. I hope you meet the better ones more often from now on. Again, if they were being overly douche, ask to speak with thei Superintendent, you know? The ones with two thick gold bars on their shoulders. Can't miss them.


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## scoutfinch (20 Jun 2008)

Strike -- I apologize.  It seems that no one can keep us straight these days.  

Medtech:  Strike is the one that had the problems... but have no fear, you aren't the first to mix us up.  There are a few other threads from today alone that have us confused.  

I think it is funny.


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## medaid (20 Jun 2008)

D'oh!!! Strike sorry!


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## LordOsborne (2 Jul 2008)

I was travelling to Gagetown from Victoria in my combats, and had my small pack on as i went through security. I had a laptop in the bag, which the security people decided to sample with the explosive residue sensor. I had just bought the laptop 3 days earlier, but it tested positive for explosive residue. All i could do was shrug and say "well, that's my army bag. it's been around shooting and it has carried ammunition, so that's where it's coming from." They gave me a puzzled look, as if being clad in cadpat wasn't a big enough clue, then let me go on through. I had offered to turn it on and show them it worked normally, which they politely declined. Oddly enough, the two huge safety pins in my balmoral didn't even get noticed, even when it went through the xray machine.


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## Scoobie Newbie (2 Jul 2008)

They always test laptops regardless of date of purchase.  And any one can buy a set of combats and try to pass themselves off as legit.  If your concerned about the delay maybe you should either wash your bag or use another type in its place.


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## NCRCrow (2 Jul 2008)

Not trying Hijack this post but I have a question.

I am currently decluttering my house as part of my New's Years resolution ( I know its July) and have tons of old kit from my Army days and Navy uniforms with a 30 waist (not anymore).

and was reading this thread about uniforms falling into the wrong hands. 

How do I dispose of this uniforms (mostly DEU) and OD Combats?


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## armyvern (2 Jul 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Not trying Hijack this post but I have a question.
> 
> I am currently decluttering my house as part of my New's Years resolution ( I know its July) and have tons of old kit from my Army days and Navy uniforms with a 30 waist (not anymore).
> 
> ...



DEU items can be given to one of your friends who can use them -- or chucked into the garbage. Rules state that you are to remove badges/patches/ranks etc from them before you dispose of them though (thus avoiding a nice CF regulation and accoutremented tunic being ultilized by some squegee kid to mount an attack on your nearest CF establishment. ).  DEU items are retainable upon release and "fall-off" your individual clothing docs' charge after 5 years of CF service.

As for operational kit items such as obsolete OD combats - take them into clothing stores to return (they may very well still be on your charge, thus will have to be removed from your docs account). Even if not on your charge, the Sup Techs should take them back and bring onto their CLOT account charge via an MSO173 which enables their return to the "system" and onward redistribution to regional cadet camps (cadets now utilize our OG items).


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## gaspasser (2 Jul 2008)

Back in 2005, me and the misses are travelling for HHT to Kingston.  Security in Halifax and Toronto {changed planes} was adequate.  Seeing as my misses had previously gone thru Israeli security {NOW that is security-where do you think we get most of ours now from??} Get to Kingston, see house, change house, on way home to Greenwood. GO thru Kingston Airport {yes! they have one} security finds bomba incredients on wife's purse...me being military, start a little freak, trying to think of where she could've been in contact with the stuff. She gets a nice massage {actually wanted to hire the girl} I get a near heart attack to find out........that chemical is on 90% of new tanned  leather good...purse.
Happily sent on our merry way with having learned something new that day.


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## NCRCrow (2 Jul 2008)

Thanks AV!


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## George Wallace (2 Jul 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> How do I dispose of this uniforms (mostly DEU) and OD Combats?



1.  You can shred them.

2.  You can use them for yard work.

3.  While Training Coord in Aldershot, I had a Lt(N) who was soon getting out, that donated a Uniform a day to be used as targets on the Grenade Range.


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## NCRCrow (2 Jul 2008)

I will donate them to the Value Village for the next village people revival.


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## armyvern (3 Jul 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> 1.  You can shred them.
> 
> 2.  You can use them for yard work.
> 
> 3.  While Training Coord in Aldershot, I had a Lt(N) who was soon getting out, that donated a Uniform a day to be used as targets on the Grenade Range.



Perhaps in the case of his DEUs, but with his OG (or any operational kit item) he should first check to see if it remains on his charge (if it is and he shreds or otherwise disposes of it -- he's paying for it via MLR upon release when he no longer has it to turn in  ). 

OG is still required and used by the Cadet System - I discourage members from trashing it simply because it's not on their charge any more when the cadet system can still use it; just take it into clothing stores and they will bring it back onto B Sup's charge and re-distribute to those who do still utilize it.


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## armyvern (3 Jul 2008)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> I will donate them to the Value Village for the next village people revival.



Thanks, I'm now getting visuals that I really DO NOT need this evening!!  

My eyes!!  :-X


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## Ex-Dragoon (3 Jul 2008)

Maybe chris_the_merc could use your old DEUs in his movie


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## NCRCrow (3 Jul 2008)

Where do audition for chris_the_mercs movies? Does he need a Naval Attache?

I could wear my size 30 white pants...wait thats Randy from the Trailer Park Boys!

I just saw a Tornado GMR fly over my house..WICKED. Here in Sackvegas!


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## medaid (3 Jul 2008)

I want to be the sly yet sophisticatedly funny Secret Asian Man. Muahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha...

"Do you expect me to talk?"

"No... I expect you to... Fry!!!!"

Get it? Asian? Fried rice? Oh... Never mind.


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