# Getting paperwork before turning 16?



## Godwinlee (4 Aug 2012)

Hi everyone!

My name is Godwin and I'm interested in joining the reserves once I turn 16. I'm currently 15 and my birthday is on November 22. I was wondering if any of you know if I would be able to go to the recruiting center and get my paperwork/application this summer before I turn 16 (the minimum age to join the reserves).
The reason why I would like to do so is because my parents would like to read it over a couple of times to understand what the process would be like as well as talking to a recruiter to clarify what I would be doing. Another reason is that I would also like to hand in my application the day of my birthday to not stall it any longer   (I guess i'm just excited). 
Anyways, thanks for helping me out.

Godwin

*I would also like to add that the reason I'm asking this here is because the recruitment center won't call me back..left them a message in March and haven't received a call yet. Also, I live quite a long way from the nearest recruitment center I don't think my parents would be too happy to drive me there to find that I cannot receive any of the paperwork and then drive back for nothing.


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## Cat (4 Aug 2012)

Well, most reserve units are stood down over the summer, so I would really suggest you start out doing your research online. Share www.forces.gc.ca with your parents, look over the application on there(yup all digital now!), and see if the unit you want to apply to has a website, see when they start parading again and make a point of going in during their recruiters office hours with your parents and sitting down to talk with them. 

Hope that helps

Cat


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## chrisf (4 Aug 2012)

There's usually at least a few staff kicking around any reserve unit over the summer, well below winter levels, but somone should be around.

*Phone* the recruiter for the unit you're interested in, if there's no answer, don't worry, *leave a phone message* (Your parents should be able to explain what this is, it's somthing we used to do before texting).

Wait a few days, if no one returns the call, drop by the unit.

Do *not* expect quick responses over the summer.

Most reserve units should be fully staffed again by the second week of september, so if you can't get in contact with anyone during August, you'll still have plenty of time to get paperwork filled out before November.


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## Godwinlee (4 Aug 2012)

Thanks for your quick replies  

I have phoned the 2 reserve units I am interested in (48th Highlanders and the Queens Own Rifles). They both said that they do not do any recruiting at that armoury and that I would have to go to the recruiting center to get the information I wanted.
Both of these units have websites so I would be able to see when they have parades again. I have never been to one of these parades before..what's it like?
Also, what Cat is saying is that I can print off all the pages of the paperwork at home?

Thanks!

Godwin


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## Blackadder1916 (4 Aug 2012)

Godwinlee said:
			
		

> Both of these units have websites so I would be able to see when they have parades again. *I have never been to one of these parades before..what's it like?*



When a reserve unit talks about parading, they are referring to regular scheduled work periods, usually one evening a week from September to May/June (generally coinciding with the school year).  That's when the majority of training and administration takes place for part-time soldiers.


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## Godwinlee (4 Aug 2012)

Oh..I literally thought that they go out and march with drums and bagpipes  :facepalm: guess I should've done more research.
Also, thank you Cat! I've found some application forms in the Multimedia tab on the forces homepage.


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## Godwinlee (5 Aug 2012)

Actually, just one more question.

Would you recommend me going to the recruiting center to get my paperwork, or printing off the sheets online. Would I get more information and extra things if I went in person?

Thanks


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2012)

Godwinlee said:
			
		

> Actually, just one more question.
> 
> Would you recommend me going to the recruiting center to get my paperwork, or printing off the sheets online. Would I get more information and extra things if I went in person?
> 
> Thanks



Yes, but CFRC Toronto (I'm guessing here based on the units you want to join) doesn't really handle unit recruiting for the 48th Highlanders and QOR.  They will each have their own unit recruiters, so it's best to talk to them and get a feel for the unit you're looking to join.


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## jrst (5 Aug 2012)

Godwinlee said:
			
		

> Would you recommend me going to the recruiting center to get my paperwork, or printing off the sheets online.



I printed off my own sheets and home and filled them out, but I'd made a mistake on one sheet and they had an extra to give me.  There's no harm in printing it out and bringing it in, if there's a problem, they will tell you and help you.


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## Godwinlee (5 Aug 2012)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Yes, but CFRC Toronto (I'm guessing here based on the units you want to join) doesn't really handle unit recruiting for the 48th Highlanders and QOR.  They will each have their own unit recruiters, so it's best to talk to them and get a feel for the unit you're looking to join.



This is confusing because I had called both units in the past and they both said that they do not handle recruiting there and that I would have to go to CFRC Toronto... :-\


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2012)

Godwinlee said:
			
		

> This is confusing because I had called both units in the past and they both said that they do not handle recruiting there and that I would have to go to CFRC Toronto... :-\



OK, that may have changed since I was in the Reserves.  Either way, stopping by the units and chatting with people is, in my opinion, a good idea to "check out" the unit.


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## P_Laurin (8 Aug 2012)

Godwin, have you checked the latest age requirements? It's 17 for the reserves now and not 16...
I went to the CFRC to apply with the 32 Signals Regiment in January, only to be told that I had to wait until march 15th to apply (as it was closer to my 17th birthday, on june 1st). Also, about the Queens Own Rifles, the last I heard is that they had their information night and selection sometime in july I believe. Every unit has a different recruiting time frame, so it is wise to go ask the unit recruiter in person (They're nice people, since they WANT you to be interested in the military). As for the age thing, I would recommend that you go find out for yourself quickly, primarily to avoid disappointment after becoming so hyped up. Best of luck to you!


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## brihard (8 Aug 2012)

P_Laurin said:
			
		

> Godwin, have you checked the latest age requirements? It's 17 for the reserves now and not 16...
> I went to the CFRC to apply with the 32 Signals Regiment in January, only to be told that I had to wait until march 15th to apply (as it was closer to my 17th birthday, on june 1st). Also, about the Queens Own Rifles, the last I heard is that they had their information night and selection sometime in july I believe. Every unit has a different recruiting time frame, so it is wise to go ask the unit recruiter in person (They're nice people, since they WANT you to be interested in the military). As for the age thing, I would recommend that you go find out for yourself quickly, primarily to avoid disappointment after becoming so hyped up. Best of luck to you!



Thsi is weird. The CANFORGEN the Canadian Forces general distribution message) that stipulated the new recruiting rules stated that 17 was the age wit the exception of full time students. I continue to see 16 year old _full time high school students_ bei recruited into the CF. I recruit for my regiment, and we brought one in last winter. I have another in the pipe now. CFRC Ottawa has not given me any issue up til now in processing 16 year olds who remain in high school.

Anyone else more senior in CFRG got any input on this? I know what I've personally seen happen in the past year and what the CANFORGEN said. I also know what the amended rules say- and they say 17. Yet the CANFORGEN conflicts and 16 year olds in high school continue to get in.


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## Hermes (8 Aug 2012)

Did they not up the mandatory age of joining the primary reserve to 17?


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## Jimmy_D (8 Aug 2012)

I thought it was up'd to 17, but 16 if the applicant was applying for officer. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit to add: And for the 16y/o they had to be already accepted into a university program I believe.


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## Jimmy_D (8 Aug 2012)

Right off of the recruitment website.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/howtoapply-106


To be eligible to apply to the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following three minimum requirements:
Be a Canadian Citizen
  
Be 17 years of age (with parental or guardian consent) or older, except: 
Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applicants, who must be 16 years of age or older
  
Meet the minimum education requirements for your desired military occupation: 
Grade 10 or Secondaire IV in Quebec, and additional educational prerequisites as specified by the occupation


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## bobbocool (8 Aug 2012)

Godwin. the best way to get a hold of a recruiter is to call every 15-30 mins all day long. Some people may disagree but those guys are in and out of the office all day long and are hard to catch because they can be very busy at times. When it comes down to it their job is to assist you and answer your questions, that is what they get paid to do. (along with a whole lot of other work that gos on behind the scenes). Summer is also a bad time because almost everything in the army is understaffed at this time. Good luck.


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## Habs (8 Aug 2012)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> I thought it was up'd to 17, but 16 if the applicant was applying for officer. Please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Edit to add: And for the 16y/o they had to be already accepted into a university program I believe.



Wrong. You can be 16 and be in the reserves as long as you're a full time student. That can be a high school student.

I'm 16, in grade 12, and I'm in the reserves. Just did a course last month.


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## Godwinlee (8 Aug 2012)

P_Laurin said:
			
		

> Godwin, have you checked the latest age requirements? It's 17 for the reserves now and not 16...
> I went to the CFRC to apply with the 32 Signals Regiment in January, only to be told that I had to wait until march 15th to apply (as it was closer to my 17th birthday, on june 1st). Also, about the Queens Own Rifles, the last I heard is that they had their information night and selection sometime in july I believe. Every unit has a different recruiting time frame, so it is wise to go ask the unit recruiter in person (They're nice people, since they WANT you to be interested in the military). As for the age thing, I would recommend that you go find out for yourself quickly, primarily to avoid disappointment after becoming so hyped up. Best of luck to you!



I've called both QOR and 48th Highlanders in the past week and both said the age to join was 16.


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## P_Laurin (8 Aug 2012)

Godwinlee said:
			
		

> I've called both QOR and 48th Highlanders in the past week and both said the age to join was 16.



Thats very strange! The rule was changed very recently, and I think that many of the recruiters from the reserve units only remember what it was when they joined up. Its best to ask someone from the CFRC. Because as I said, i wasn't allowed to even begin to apply until a few months before I turned 17.


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## P_Laurin (8 Aug 2012)

Habs said:
			
		

> Wrong. You can be 16 and be in the reserves as long as you're a full time student. That can be a high school student.
> 
> I'm 16, in grade 12, and I'm in the reserves. Just did a course last month.



When did you first start applying? Because I know that starting at least in january of this year, the CFRC only allowed applications from people who are 17 and over (or almost 17). Why are you 16 and in grade 12? Did you skip a year?


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## brihard (8 Aug 2012)

So we have 16 year olds being told yes and 16 year olds being told no depending on CFRC. This nicely illustrates my conundrum. Guess I'll stop by the CFRC after lunch. I need something with policy document weight.


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## Stevenhh (8 Aug 2012)

This was the reply I got in an email from the National Recruiting Contact Centre back in August 2011 when I wanted to apply when I was 16 and a half:

"In the Reserve Force, an applicant must be:

    age 16, if the applicant is selected for education and training at a Royal Military College or otherwise maintains full-time student status until age 17; 


    age 18, if the applicant enrols in the Cadet Organizations Administration and Training Service (COATS) or the Canadian Rangers; or 


    age 17, in any other case."

I'm an applicant for the 15th Field Regiment in Vancouver. (17 years of age now)


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## P_Laurin (8 Aug 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> So we have 16 year olds being told yes and 16 year olds being told no depending on CFRC. This nicely illustrates my conundrum. Guess I'll stop by the CFRC after lunch. I need something with policy document weight.



That made the difference between me being stuck with the Fall BMQ, or me getting to do the summer course. Whatever, whats done is done, now I get to look forward to my weekends


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## Habs (8 Aug 2012)

P_Laurin said:
			
		

> When did you first start applying? Because I know that starting at least in january of this year, the CFRC only allowed applications from people who are 17 and over (or almost 17). Why are you 16 and in grade 12? Did you skip a year?



I applied 4-5 months ago, I got sworn in the first week of June, and did BMQ last month.

I'm 16 because my birthday is in October. I guess I'm not 'technically' in grade 12 yet, I start grade 12 next month. So I'll be 16 in grade 12 for a month and a half.


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## P_Laurin (8 Aug 2012)

Habs said:
			
		

> I applied 4-5 months ago, I got sworn in the first week of June, and did BMQ last month.
> 
> I'm 16 because my birthday is in October, I guess I'm not 'technically' in grade 12 yet, I start grade 12 next month. So I'll be 16 in grade 12 for a month and a half.



Ohhhhh okay. Im going into grade 12 aswell. From what I can see, it depends on which CFRC you go to for now. Unfortunately for Godwin, I believe that the CFRC Toronto only allows those 17 and over.


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## brihard (8 Aug 2012)

I jsut spoke with two members of CFRC Ottawa. 

There is a contradiction between CANFORGEN 038/11 and DAOD 5002-1 regarding reserve applicants who remain full time students (generally high school) at the age of 16.

CFRC Ottawa told me they will process my applicants who fit this description.

Apparently CFRC Toronto is telling people different. So there's an inconsistency between two CFRC dets.

I'll bring this to the attention of someone I happen to know incidentally in CFRG. Hopefully it eventually makes it to the right ears.


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## 2ndChoiceName (20 Sep 2012)

I don't want to hijack a thread here, but there seems to be copious amounts of threads on this subject and I don't want to start a new one and bring down the mighty wrath of the mods, so here goes:

I went down to the CFRC Toronto today, having received word from the prospective regiments that they had positions open, all ready to fill out some paperwork and get the ball rolling. However, the Sgt. in there told me that I have to be 17 and there's no use doing anything until that point (I turned 16 less than a month ago, and I am a full time-student). I know that this is relatively commonplace for CFRC Toronto, but is there anything I can do to maybe go through a different CFRC or do it directly with the Regt.? The 48th Highlanders told me they don't do recruiting in-house, but I'm not sure about the Queen's York Rangers. So I guess the crux of my post is this: Is there anything I can do to apply through a different CFRC or do it directly with the unit?


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## George Wallace (20 Sep 2012)

2ndChoiceName said:
			
		

> I don't want to hijack a thread here, but there seems to be copious amounts of threads on this subject and I don't want to start a new one and bring down the mighty wrath of the mods, so here goes:
> 
> I went down to the CFRC Toronto today, having received word from the prospective regiments that they had positions open, all ready to fill out some paperwork and get the ball rolling. However, the Sgt. in there told me that I have to be 17 and there's no use doing anything until that point (I turned 16 less than a month ago, and I am a full time-student). I know that this is relatively commonplace for CFRC Toronto, but is there anything I can do to maybe go through a different CFRC or do it directly with the Regt.? The 48th Highlanders told me they don't do recruiting in-house, but I'm not sure about the Queen's York Rangers. So I guess the crux of my post is this: Is there anything I can do to apply through a different CFRC or do it directly with the unit?



Please do the following:

Research "Child Soldiers";Research the Canadian Government policies on/towards Child Soldiers; and 
Research the prerequisites to joining the Canadian Forces (Regular and Reserves).


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## 2ndChoiceName (20 Sep 2012)

> Research "Child Soldiers";Research the Canadian Government policies on/towards Child Soldiers; and
> Research the prerequisites to joining the Canadian Forces (Regular and Reserves).



I will do that, but I'm not sure it's quite relevant, since other recruiting centres are allowing people in at 16, and since I am over 16, how would I fall into the category of "Child Soldier"? 

I have also researched the prerequisites to joining the CF Reserves, as evidenced below.



> CANFORGEN 038/11 CMP 019/11 171252Z FEB 11
> AMENDMENT TO MINIMUM ENROLMENT AGE DAOD 5002-1
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> ...



I removed numbers 1 and 2 since they didn't apply to my situation, but it states right there in 3)B) that if I maintain full-time student status until age 17 (which I am), I am permitted to join the Reserve Force at 16.


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## DAA (21 Sep 2012)

The last change to the DAOD was done 1 Jan 11 and the CANFORGEN was issued on 17 Feb 11 which tells me that the DAOD has never been updated with the information pertaining to the Res F.  Bottom line for the Reserve Force is "16 years of age as long as you are a full-time student".  Reg F age requirements are slightly different.


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## 2ndChoiceName (21 Sep 2012)

While I am glad to know that I should be allowed to join at 16, that doesn't change the fact that the CFRC Toronto won't let me. So, back to my original question, is there any way I can avoid dealing with the Toronto CFRC? There is an Oshawa CFRC in my area, but that is for 31 CBG, and if I'm not mistaken, I couldn't be processed there if I'm trying to join a 32 CBG unit, right? I'm just wondering how other 16 year old, Toronto-based recruits have managed to get in.


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## The_Falcon (22 Sep 2012)

2ndChoiceName said:
			
		

> While I am glad to know that I should be allowed to join at 16, that doesn't change the fact that the CFRC Toronto won't let me. So, back to my original question, is there any way I can avoid dealing with the Toronto CFRC? There is an Oshawa CFRC in my area, but that is for 31 CBG, and if I'm not mistaken, I couldn't be processed there if I'm trying to join a 32 CBG unit, right? I'm just wondering how other 16 year old, Toronto-based recruits have managed to get in.



That particular Sgt was mistaken, it happens, talk to a different one.  In either case we won't start any paperwork until you go to unit, and get a letter from them saying they are willing to hire you.


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## Eaglelord17 (22 Sep 2012)

Maybe try bringing in a copy of the Canforgen and its code so if they are really insistant they can look it up themselves on the DWAN


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## 2ndChoiceName (23 Sep 2012)

Yeah, I'm thinking of calling the unit I want to join, getting them to give me a letter or send the CFRC a letter, then going down again and hopefully talking to a different recruiter, but if I do end up speaking to the same one, show him the CANFORGEN and hopefully get in? Does that sound like a viable plan? I feel like it would be kind of confrontational which is probably not a good thing if I'm trying to join the Forces.


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## Eaglelord17 (23 Sep 2012)

Well it would be helping to correct a mistake the CFRC in Toronto is making. Besides if they truly are a good recruiter they will be trying to do whatever they can to help your application and you having done resarch yourself shows initiative.
Best of luck


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## 2ndChoiceName (23 Sep 2012)

Yeah, I guess that's a good point. One last thing. I just have a word document on which I have copy and pasted the CANFORGEN. Will that be good enough to bring down or will it be better to just tell them to look it up?


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## Eaglelord17 (23 Sep 2012)

I would bring in the copy and the actual code, so if they question it beyond the copy or they aren't sure if it is real they can then procede to look it up.


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## The_Falcon (23 Sep 2012)

You still need a letter from a reserve unit FIRST, before any recruiter will start a file for you.


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## SoldierInAYear (25 Sep 2012)

I just talked with a recruiter. CFRC Hamilton only accepts 16 year olds if they apply through high school for coop.  You could try messaging recruiters and ask if they accept 16 year old co-op students.


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## 2ndChoiceName (25 Sep 2012)

Yeah, that's what the recruiter I talked to said as well. That you can only join at 16 if you are applying through the co-op program.


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## The_Falcon (25 Sep 2012)

2ndChoiceName said:
			
		

> Yeah, that's what the recruiter I talked to said as well. That you can only join at 16 if you are applying through the co-op program.



If you can remember who and when PM.  All recruiters were made aware of the policy some time ago.


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## DAA (26 Sep 2012)

RHB (Recruiters Hand Book - Minimum Enrolment Ages) - Art 3.2.0, para 1.b.(2)  -  In the Res F, an applicant must be:  Age 16, if the applicant is selected for education and training at a Royal Military College or otherwise maintains full-time student status until age 17.

It doesn't get any clearer than that!!    :facepalm:


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## 2ndChoiceName (26 Sep 2012)

Thanks everyone for your help! I have a meeting scheduled with the GGHG recruiter in about two weeks, so hopefully if I do run into any trouble at the recruiting centre I can get him to help out in some way. He also told me that 16 is the age with parental consent. From what I can gather, it's pretty much only the Toronto CFRC, or at least that one recruiter, that has it wrong. Thanks again everyone.


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## DAA (26 Sep 2012)

Please keep in mind that "Recruiter" is not an occupation in the CF.  These people are employed "out of trade" and thus in administrative duties per se.  So long as they pay due diligence to the RHB, they can't go wrong.

They are prone to mishaps from time to time and it does happen.


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## 2ndChoiceName (26 Sep 2012)

Yep, got it. Thanks again for all your help.


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## jackmomma (27 Sep 2012)

I went down to CFRC Toronto today. The age for primary reserves is in fact still 16 and 17 for regular.


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## The_Falcon (27 Sep 2012)

jackmomma said:
			
		

> I went down to CFRC Toronto today. and 17 for regular.



 :brickwall:
The age for primary reserves is in fact still 16 *IF YOU ARE STILL IN FULL TIME EDUCATION*
otherwise the age is 17!


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