# De Havilland Cannada announces new calgary manufacturing facility



## MilEME09 (21 Sep 2022)

De Haviland has announced a new manufacturing complex to be built east of Calgary. Facility to have the ability to produce aircraft, spare parts, and train staff. Once completed in 2025 would employ 1500 staff. This in in addition to the 1000 staff already in calgary. Giving the company a significant presence in western Canada.









						Varcoe: De Havilland to build massive aircraft manufacturing complex with corporate offices east of Calgary
					

De Havilland Aircraft of Canada Ltd. will today unveil ambitious plans to build a major manufacturing complex and aerodrome east of Calgary




					calgaryherald.com


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## Spencer100 (21 Sep 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> De Haviland has announced a new manufacturing complex to be built east of Calgary. Facility to have the ability to produce aircraft, soarepsrts, and train staff. Once completed in 2025 would employ 1500 staff. This in in addition to the 1000 staff already in calgary. Giving the company a significant presence in western Canada.
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Wish them good luck.  Glad to see the old name back in use.  

Hope they can get the planes back in production.


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## childs56 (21 Sep 2022)

This is awesome news and great to see the Official announcement.


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## suffolkowner (21 Sep 2022)

Did they stop building new Twin Otters to work on the 415?


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## MilEME09 (21 Sep 2022)

suffolkowner said:


> Did they stop building new Twin Otters to work on the 415?


In the article they stated twin otter production stopped due to covid, but they hope to restart production in the near future.


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## Spencer100 (21 Sep 2022)

Because no one asked! 

Here is my take on.


suffolkowner said:


> Did they stop building new Twin Otters to work on the 415?


I think they ran through the current order book.  Have to get the sale team back working it.  Covid killed demand for this type of aircraft.  No one going to islands on special holidays or hunting or fishing.  Less energy companies flying out in the bush etc.   The RCAF is not buying.  Same story with the Dash 8 plus the fact that new owner/company has to prove that they can support and get a new production to market.  Airlines don't like planes that are not supported well.  

It will be a long road to get back to even half the level as a OEM that Bombardier has at. And even then they were not able to make it.  I doubt we will ever see a Canadian OEM new product ever again in our lifetime.  The CS220 was the last.  We will see classics and new derivatives of models but a whole new platform no.


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## MilEME09 (21 Sep 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> Because no one asked!
> 
> Here is my take on.
> 
> ...


I'd agree, we gotta build that institutional knowledge before we start R&D. That said if they succeed, don't be surprised if that GoC/DnD gravy train comes their way.


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## Spencer100 (21 Sep 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> I'd agree, we gotta build that institutional knowledge before we start R&D. That said if they succeed, don't be surprised if that GoC/DnD gravy train comes their way.


In all honesty I will be very surprised if the Gov/DND train goes their way.  First is the move to Calgary to get out from under Unifor's hands. That does not sit well with two of the parties in Ottawa or the civil service.  Second the gov did help before when they could have purchased new twin otters before. Their purchase was low risk and not very divisive.  So they upgraded decade old ones.  Three the government will not want to see success in the west after the failure in the east.  Plus it's a shot to Quebec's favorite son/family.  

The one outlier is the Thompson family in good graces with the government.  That could change things.


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## quadrapiper (21 Sep 2022)

On the other hand, it's a very non-divisive (compared to e.g. the rats' nest of interests involved in energy policy) way to make nice to Alberta that also has national benefits (keeping aviation manufacturing alive).


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## Colin Parkinson (21 Sep 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> In all honesty I will be very surprised if the Gov/DND train goes their way.  First is the move to Calgary to get out from under Unifor's hands. That does not sit well with two of the parties in Ottawa or the civil service.  Second the gov did help before when they could have purchased new twin otters before. Their purchase was low risk and not very divisive.  So they upgraded decade old ones.  Three the government will not want to see success in the west after the failure in the east.  Plus it's a shot to Quebec's favorite son/family.
> 
> The one outlier is the Thompson family in good graces with the government.  That could change things.


Why we didn't just trade in the Twotters is utterly beyond me.


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## Kirkhill (21 Sep 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> Because no one asked!
> 
> Here is my take on.
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> ...



Unless they take the pilot out of the cockpit.

People that can keep things up in the air without the benefit of a pilot seem to be doing quite well for themselves these days.


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## childs56 (21 Sep 2022)

suffolkowner said:


> Did they stop building new Twin Otters to work on the 415?


No, they sourced contracts overseas for the DHC-515 Firefighter Which is a new design, which is going to be the standard for Aerial Fire Fighting for scoopers.  They have been maintaining and overhauling all other series of De-Haviland over the years. Been doing a out standing job at it which is something to be very proud of as a Canadian. Hopefully they venture into the medium Military transport aircraft series as well and even if it is all foreign contract. Maybe see the Buff back in a upsized version.


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## Kat Stevens (21 Sep 2022)

The announcement I saw this morning said "east of Calgary", so I automatically assumed it was in Quebec.


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## Spencer100 (21 Sep 2022)

childs56 said:


> No, they sourced contracts overseas for the DHC-515 Firefighter Which is a new design, which is going to be the standard for Aerial Fire Fighting for scoopers.  They have been maintaining and overhauling all other series of De-Haviland over the years. Been doing a out standing job at it which is something to be very proud of as a Canadian. Hopefully they venture into the medium Military transport aircraft series as well and even if it is all foreign contract. Maybe see the Buff back in a upsized version.


The buff will never go to production and they don't have the bench strength to design a new product. You underestimate the difficulty.  I would direct you to read up on the aerospace industry.  In the last 60 years only one country has been able to move in the aerospace top ranks. Brazil.  Many have tried all have failed.  A few have fallen like Canada. China is looking like it may.


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## Colin Parkinson (21 Sep 2022)

Kirkhill said:


> Unless they take the pilot out of the cockpit.
> 
> People that can keep things up in the air without the benefit of a pilot seem to be doing quite well for themselves these days.


Civilian drone market has really eaten up a lot of the bread and butter jobs that small helicopter companies did to keep themselves viable. I foresee a lot of those small companies disappearing and a resulting lack of vertical lift for SAR in many areas.


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## armrdsoul77 (22 Sep 2022)

eBeaver conversions?










						Harbour Air Makes First Point-to-Point Flight with Electric Beaver - FLYING Magazine
					

Battery-enabled ‘eBeaver’ propelled by magniX electric motors flies 45 miles in 24 minutes.




					www.flyingmag.com


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## Kirkhill (22 Sep 2022)

armrdsoul77 said:


> eBeaver conversions?


 Oh, how my mind does wander.....


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## MarkOttawa (22 Sep 2022)

And see this story at Flight Global--dubious that either Twotter or Dash 8 will go back into production. Water bomber likely only new-build project and very limited market for that, esp. as Americans never bought Canadairs:









						De Havilland plans new assembly site near Calgary, Dash 8 and Twin Otter reboot unsettled
					

De Havilland Canada has revealed plans to build a massive new manufacturing site near Calgary where it will assemble aircraft including its newly launched DHC-515 water bomber.




					www.flightglobal.com
				




Mark Collins


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## Spencer100 (22 Sep 2022)

MarkOttawa said:


> And see this story at Flight Global--dubious that either Twotter or Dash 8 will go back into production. Water bomber likely only new-build project and very limited market for that, esp. as Americans never bought Canadairs:
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I have a doubt they do go into production too.  The spares business is a good business to be in.


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## childs56 (22 Sep 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> The buff will never go to production and they don't have the bench strength to design a new product. You underestimate the difficulty.  I would direct you to read up on the aerospace industry.  In the last 60 years only one country has been able to move in the aerospace top ranks. Brazil.  Many have tried all have failed.  A few have fallen like Canada. China is looking like it may.


Funny because the new water bomber was a redesign of a old airframe. Guess what done working on the assembly line as we speak. 

As for the Buff. They already had plans to upsize the Buff style aircraft. They were hoping the Canadian Government would see the value in such a move. They had possible sales overseas But nothing concrete.  At the time this was comming from a company based in Victoria. 
Which the government had nointerest  allowing the west any work from federal contracts. 

Time will tell. They are not building this new facility to just build water bombers. 
Viking Air has been a leader around the world for the small nimble aircraft rebuilds and modifications hat serves the rugged terrain around the world..


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## MilEME09 (22 Sep 2022)

childs56 said:


> Funny because the new water bomber was a redesign of a old airframe. Guess what done working on the assembly line as we speak.
> 
> As for the Buff. They already had plans to upsize the Buff style aircraft. They were hoping the Canadian Government would see the value in such a move. They had possible sales overseas But nothing concrete.  At the time this was comming from a company based in Victoria.
> Which the government had nointerest  allowing the west any work from federal contracts.
> ...


From what I am reading this new calgsry facility will have three production lines, which tells me they have plans to ramp up.


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## YZT580 (22 Sep 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> The buff will never go to production and they don't have the bench strength to design a new product. You underestimate the difficulty.  I would direct you to read up on the aerospace industry.  In the last 60 years only one country has been able to move in the aerospace top ranks. Brazil.  Many have tried all have failed.  A few have fallen like Canada. China is looking like it may.


pessimist.  From the headlines on forest fires, there is a global shortage of water bombers and the skills to manufacture same.  The CL products were globally well received but the marketing just wasn't there to sell them and then maintain them.  Viking has a well-earned reputation for standing behind their products even when those products were produced in the 60's.  They made the new DH6 a success and did so without any help of significance from OW.


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## lenaitch (22 Sep 2022)

The way I heard it, the order book for the 415 dried up (they were built in Quebec but 'finished' in North Bay).  It seems everybody that needed one had one.  With climate change, I can see an emerging market both of new customers and those who are flying theirs like rented mules.


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## childs56 (22 Sep 2022)

lenaitch said:


> The way I heard it, the order book for the 415 dried up (they were built in Quebec but 'finished' in North Bay).  It seems everybody that needed one had one.  With climate change, I can see an emerging market both of new customers and those who are flying theirs like rented mules.


Bombardier/ CL were looking for high value contracts. The water bomber was a sideline of theirs. They never really put much effort into it. More forced to produce. 
We now have a company with the full rights that is eager to market, build and expand. 
This will be a interesting change in the Canadian Aerospace Industry for years to come. 

I think Viking will look at larger contracts and larger aircraft in the near future.


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## YZT580 (22 Sep 2022)

childs56 said:


> Bombardier/ CL were looking for high value contracts. The water bomber was a sideline of theirs. They never really put much effort into it. More forced to produce.
> We now have a company with the full rights that is eager to market, build and expand.
> This will be a interesting change in the Canadian Aerospace Industry for years to come.
> 
> I think Viking will look at larger contracts and larger aircraft in the near future.


yeah, learjets are far sexier than water trucks


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## Spencer100 (22 Sep 2022)

YZT580 said:


> yeah, learjets are far sexier than water trucks


Although they stopped making them too.


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## Good2Golf (22 Sep 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> The spares business is a good business to be in.


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## Kirkhill (22 Sep 2022)

childs56 said:


> Bombardier/ CL were looking for high value contracts. The water bomber was a sideline of theirs. They never really put much effort into it. More forced to produce.
> We now have a company with the full rights that is eager to market, build and expand.
> This will be a interesting change in the Canadian Aerospace Industry for years to come.
> 
> I think Viking will look at larger contracts and larger aircraft in the near future.



How about more small aircraft that look more like UAVs with people on board?  The self driving vehicle makes a lot more sense in the air than on the ground.  The large aircraft makes sense on the hub and spoke system but it doesn't offer much in the way of flexibility.

An elevator operator rather than a pilot.


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## lenaitch (22 Sep 2022)

childs56 said:


> Bombardier/ CL were looking for high value contracts. The water bomber was a sideline of theirs. They never really put much effort into it. More forced to produce.
> We now have a company with the full rights that is eager to market, build and expand.
> This will be a interesting change in the Canadian Aerospace Industry for years to come.
> 
> I think Viking will look at larger contracts and larger aircraft in the near future.


Makes sense.  They came in the basket from Canadair.  According to a guy I worked with for a while, the 415 was really pushed by the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources.  The 215 was the only piston aircraft remaining in their fleet and they had long experience with DH turbines (I don't know if Ontario ever had any 215-Ts; I don't think so).


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## Skysix (22 Sep 2022)

childs56 said:


> Bombardier/ CL were looking for high value contracts. The water bomber was a sideline of theirs. They never really put much effort into it. More forced to produce.
> We now have a company with the full rights that is eager to market, build and expand.
> This will be a interesting change in the Canadian Aerospace Industry for years to come.
> 
> I think Viking will look at larger contracts and larger aircraft in the near future.


Design a seaplane with a rear or nose ramp loading system with range and capacity comparable to a Herc. Sell lots to USMC etc. Put this silly Herc on floats idea to bed.


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## GK .Dundas (22 Sep 2022)

Skysix said:


> Design a seaplane with a rear or nose ramp loading system with range and capacity comparable to a Herc. Sell lots to USMC etc. Put this silly Herc on floats idea to bed.


Something along the lines of the old Convair Tradewind .


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## armrdsoul77 (23 Sep 2022)

If the 515 is going to be a Dehavilland Canada product then it will need a name other than "Firefighter". 

DHC-9 Pine Beetle? 

Beaver,Twotter,.....DHC-9 Cooter?


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## YZT580 (23 Sep 2022)

armrdsoul77 said:


> If the 515 is going to be a Dehavilland Canada product then it will need a name other than "Firefighter".
> 
> DHC-9 Pine Beetle?
> 
> Beaver,Twotter,.....DHC-9 Cooter?


maybe water buffalo,  or the Bison


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## Spencer100 (23 Sep 2022)

armrdsoul77 said:


> If the 515 is going to be a Dehavilland Canada product then it will need a name other than "Firefighter".
> 
> DHC-9 Pine Beetle?
> 
> Beaver,Twotter,.....DHC-9 Cooter?


They did get the "SuperScooper (TM)" when they purchased it.  So they have that too as a option.  

DHC - 10 Mountain Sheep......for the Shorts Sherpa they got too.


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## daftandbarmy (23 Sep 2022)

Skysix said:


> Design a seaplane with a rear or nose ramp loading system with range and capacity comparable to a Herc. Sell lots to USMC etc. Put this silly Herc on floats idea to bed.



Looks like the C-130 'Floatie' will be rolled out next year:









						C-130 Seaplane Should Fly In 2023 Says Air Force Special Ops Commander
					

Faced with a potential fight against China across vast swaths of ocean, the amphibious C-130 could soon finally become a reality.




					www.thedrive.com


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## Skysix (23 Sep 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> Looks like the C-130 'Floatie' will be rolled out next year:
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> 
> ...


Taking bets at 5:1 against it flying in 2023


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## GK .Dundas (23 Sep 2022)

This has all the smell of SpecOps a near bottomless barrel of money and an childlike attitude of wouldn't it be neat if, fill in the blank.
And of course what could possibly go wrong.
And no, I didn't make a mistake in punctuation. That last line is a statement not a question.


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## Retired AF Guy (23 Sep 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> Looks like the C-130 'Floatie' will be rolled out next year:
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> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy some CL-415s and paint them green?


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## Spencer100 (24 Sep 2022)

GK .Dundas said:


> This has all the smell of SpecOps a near bottomless barrel of money and an childlike attitude of wouldn't it be neat if, fill in the blank.
> And of course what could possibly go wrong.
> And no, I didn't make a mistake in punctuation. That last line is a statement not a question.


This is the thinking behind the c130 floats. 

Give Amphibians a Second Look 

This is the idea where this comes from


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## suffolkowner (24 Sep 2022)

As far as sea planes go what about this one?









						ShinMaywa US-2 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Skysix (24 Sep 2022)

Or a turbine version of this


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## Skysix (24 Sep 2022)

suffolkowner said:


> As far as sea planes go what about this one?
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Would be perfect except for no loading ramp and high cost/crew requirements


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## Maxman1 (24 Sep 2022)

Or how about a turboprop version of the M-130 Clipper?


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## lenaitch (24 Sep 2022)

Retired AF Guy said:


> Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy some CL-415s and paint them green?


No loading ramp, not pressurized, light range . . .   Then again, it would be interesting to see the range - or airspeed - of a floaty Herc.

At least it's amphibious.  I'm just seeing renderings, but I don't see images or mention of wheels on the Herc.


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## daftandbarmy (24 Sep 2022)

FWIW, the Germans made extensive use of seaplanes during the Norway invasion of 1940.

In some cases they used them to 'outflank' allied roadblocks on the E6, close to the coast. They seemed to have a range of challenges related to survivability though...






						AirHistory.net - Airlift into Narvik
					

History and photos of the airlift in support of German invasion troops in Narvik, Norway, in April-May 1940. Besieged by Allied troops, the Germans in Narvik did not control an airfield. The Luftwaffe used seaplanes and airdrops to deliver supplies and reinforcements, and boldy sent a squadron...




					www.airhistory.net


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## GK .Dundas (24 Sep 2022)

convair tradewind - Google Search


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