# Army under fire



## GForce (6 Dec 2003)

Under fire by it‘s own government (budget cuts :|) so yeah.. I was wondering maybe if military personals saleries were increased more people would join the military reserve or full which would probably increase military spending and funding also. I was also wondering if the minimum wage increasment will raise everyone elses pay check to keep the balance? or.. I will just quit my full time and work to part time minimum wages gain a free day and make the same salery lol..


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## GForce (6 Dec 2003)

just food for thought no one attack me over this post.. im only 16, no professional :]


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## jonsey (6 Dec 2003)

How is the military supposed to raise saleries if the budget is too small as it is? They (who make the decisions) would have to cut back on funding for something else. It could be less/outdated equipment, cutting down on new recurits, or who knows what else. 

What the Military needs is a government in power that will increase Defence Spending. Unfortunately, thanks to the general view of the Canadian Public on the Military, it doesn‘t seem likely that they would make it a priority. 

Hopefully Martin, or whatever party gets in power after the next election, will put some badly needed money into the CF.


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## Ruthless4Life (6 Dec 2003)

Right now I‘m more concerned about safety than money...


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## RCD (6 Dec 2003)

If you build it they will come. "Field of Dreams"
If I buy it they will come."wishful thinking on the Minister of Defence list.


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## Slim (6 Dec 2003)

I bet that the military has alot of money...It seems to be very top-heavy and the spending practices need review.
Get rid of some of the top-end-chaff. I bet we‘d see lots of cash!


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## Enzo (6 Dec 2003)

Absolutely. It‘s embarrasing. We have so many generals, we could rent them out.


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## Staff (6 Dec 2003)

The problem isn‘t the pay. Nobody joins the army to get rich. The problem is inherent in the system. Too many people still think our military is supposed on the original colonial premise that a small regular force backbone with an established militia/reserve will be enough to form the basis of an effective fighting force if the country is required to go to war. The idea is that we can draw from the population whatever personelle neccessary to win. Except that I don‘t see the kids with a squeegee in their hands answering the call, nor do I see the little fat kid dropping his Nintendo to go off to fight. The desk drivers in Ottawa see the old big picture, and justify all the brass hats, they need to look at modern militaries and adjust. Another problem is retention. We used to have guys that were proud to wear the uniform, now, after seeing what a Mickey Mouse recruit course we run, half of the kids want to release after a couple of months pushing brooms around in PAT platoon. Because of budget restraints and a general lack of drive on some of the training staff, young soldiers spend alot of their time with their thumbs where they aren‘t supposed to be, wondering why they joined. The ones that stick around, get so used to the good life, that when they get to battle school or their units, they crumble as soon as the sh*t hits. I would like to know what we‘re supposed to do with  troops who have never been stressed out beyond the requirement to keep their rooms neat because mommy isn‘t aloud to do their ironing. 

I could go on. If I were king, there would be alot less whistle heads in Ottawa forming commitees and study groups all the time. They would be experienced leaders of men with a serious understanding of what is required to shape the unwashed masses into the dirty soldiers we need to form an effective fighting force. The first thing I would do, is get rid of the application of the charter of human rights in it‘s entirety as it applies to sodiers. When you join, you give up your rights as an individual. Sure, a certain amount of common sense must apply, but all the kissy/huggy cr*p has got to go. Soldiers who have suffered together stick together and are proud that they have survived. Trust me, I see first hand what‘s coming out of St-Jean, we don‘t build them like we used to.

I may have gotten a bit off topic...I‘ll sign off now.


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## GForce (7 Dec 2003)

> Originally posted by Infanteer:
> [qb] People don‘t join the military for pay, the intrinsic benefits are beyond that.  And that is the problem...structural problems within the CF are stripping away these intrinsic benefits, leaving pay the only carrot recruiters can wave.
> 
> Compare
> ...


sorry to tell you but pay is the main issue in most people‘s brains, im sure the benefits are good but what‘s good having them when you cant pay the bills?


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## RCD (7 Dec 2003)

Unfortunately the canadian public is naived to the forces.An I blame our politicians for this.they tend to lean heavily to their social agenda, than the security of the people & country.


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## The_Falcon (7 Dec 2003)

There are many reasons people don‘t want to join the forces (to many to list) naivety is biggie, but some of the others are the socialist left leaning attitudes of many the people in power, 30 plus years of fiberal governments brainwashing our society into believing our military is only for peacekeeping etc. I joined the reserves while in highschool, and the utter contempt i received from people there (students and STAFF) was amazing and disheartening. Many were quite surprised that peacekeeping is not our primary mission, despite the fact that is all we do.  Many of those I converesed with were a bit taken back when I unPCed what the official DND stuff on infantry says. When I told them "Close with and Destroy the Enemy" means get right up to him and waste his @$$ they were shocked and horrified. Even today it is more of the same. Mass demos in front of moss park armouries, graffiti on the building (homes not bombs), the occasional group of whining hippies trying to block access to the building. I could go on rambling but i am going to bed now.


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## winchable (7 Dec 2003)

That has not happened here in Halifax yet, I guess we really are a military town. I mean, I hear it all the time that we our primary employer is the military but I‘ve never really realised it. I‘d say just about everyone here is somehow connected, or has a relative in the military.
There have never been protestors, and no hippies blocking the door to any installation. Even when I first joined in highschool all of the people (students and staff) I told were supportive, if not, impressed and proud that someone they knew was serving.
I have to say I‘ve never met a whining hippy.
Falcon if you ever want to serve in peace and quiet, it is as simple as moving to Halifax !


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## Bert (7 Dec 2003)

There is another older thread in this forum where CF members were complaining about women not talking to them, old guys throwing beer bottles, hippie girls starting arguments, old women smucking them with umbrellas, little dogs chasing Reservists down the street, red neck remarks from pedestrians, and so on.  Being in Ottawa, I‘VE NEVER SEEN THAT. In fact, I‘m a bit envious of CF members.

My girlfriend has a HOT ASIAN FRIEND (please don‘t tell my girlfriend I wrote that) and she practically walked into a bus shelter one day looking at this Army SGT.  My sister goes for guys in uniform and so do her friends.  Apparently some army-type said "roger that" to her and its all she talked about for a week. And NO, you can‘t have her phone number.  

I don‘t get it.  I figure these guys should have nothing to complain about.


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## Bert (7 Dec 2003)

Sorry, I forgot.  To be gender balanced, while downtown, I said "hi" to a female Colonel.  I didn‘t see any little dogs following her, flying beer bottles, umbrellas, or Australians.  Downtown Ottawa doesn‘t have alot of red-necks but little old ladies are plentiful and non-destructive.  Hippie girls are the bane and annoyance of everyone.


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## Slim (7 Dec 2003)

Hippies see themselves as the anti society...so you all shouldn‘t be surprised when...


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## The_Falcon (7 Dec 2003)

I am not really surprised, I mean this is Toronto, just saddened.  There are times were people are respectful of us when we are in uniform, and the ladies really like our kilts. But most of the time all you hear is nonsense, like Fort York and Moss Park should be converted to homeless shelters permenatley (I kid you not) and all the other stuff previously mentioned. The Military and Toronto are not very connected. Sad just sad.


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## Slim (7 Dec 2003)

I remeber puting up with all of the same stuff during the two years I spent in the 48th ( back in the 80‘s)...Do you guys still find winos passed out in the backs of MLVW‘s in the gunpark?


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## The_Falcon (7 Dec 2003)

No, only outside, the locals are to afraid to go beyond the fence


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