# Quotations – What makes a quotation quotable?



## Blackadder1916 (14 Nov 2009)

_”I pick my favourite quotations and store them in my mind as ready armour, offensive or defensive, amid the struggle of this turbulent existence. “
Robert Burns_

Are there (or should there be) specific criteria for adding items to the military quotes section?

Many times as I’ve opened the homepage, I’ve seen items in the military quote section that make me shake my head.  Sometimes it’s because of errors in spelling, grammar or text (save those made by the original author), other times because of misattribution and occasionally because it is just dribble that’s been proposed as worthy of being quotable.  Yesterday was one of those days.  The quote that first appeared to me as I initiated my daily fix of army.ca. The name in the attribution was unfamiliar to me, but as the quote borrowed heavily from two quotations already well known and widely used, it made me wonder who was the author.  Was she a fellow participant of this forum and simply wanted to see her name or had this (heavily plagiarized?) bit of questionable wisdom been previously published and some misbegotten individual thought it fitting to promulgate it further?

With a little googling I managed to find that the item in question had appeared on some other sites of quotations, but attribution was always to the author by name alone with no clarification as to date, source material or context.  However, I did find a site that is about (maintained by?) the person that includes the quotation amongst others that dealt with the military.  In trying to ascertain whether the author's credentials would justify inclusion, the best I could come up with is that she thinks she had military experiences in “past lives”.  Belief in “past life” or “reincarnation” (or being otherwise delusional) should not automatically prelude one from being quotable (otherwise we would have to eliminate quotations from G.S. Patton).   However, (IMO) there should be some minimum criteria for allowing quotations and (again IMO) this one should be excluded on not meeting such minimum standard.  It would not be the only one that I would nominate for removal.

‘Classical quotation’ said Johnson ‘is the _parole_ of literary men all over the world’.
So began* the first edition (1941) of  The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations.  I have the third edition (1979) but they include the first edition’s preface in their explanation of what is worthy of being quotable.  It is not cut and dried in that publication either.
Mr. Johnson must be deemed very worthy of being quotable as eight and a half pages of that tome are devoted to his words that have become part of the _parole_ of the reading public.
*(_in The Compilers to The Readers section_)

So, what makes a quotation quotable?  Do we only quote the well-known simply because they are well-known?  If so, then I fear for the fate of the English language. 

After pondering this (not for long, I’m not that crazy) my conclusion was that the “ideal” quotation should meet the following criteria (some or all):
- originality of thought;
- insightfulness;
- well crafted of language;
- and in most cases the author should be recognized as being knowledgeable of his subject.

Of course sometimes the antithesis of those criteria can also produce a memorable quotation – otherwise few politicians would be quoted.

The quotations listed on this site should have a military flavour or connection but they could also have a additional purpose such as:

Motivational
Inspirational
Spiritual
Educational
Historical
Humourous  (couldn't find a synonym ending in ‘al’ except ‘comical’)
Ideological
Philosophical
Idiotical, and
Allegorical
 (if anyone thinks that sounds ‘Gilbert and Sullivan’esque, the intent was to make it “the very model of . . . “)

Though deliberately omitting those that might suggest the practice of using quotations is a sign one is unable to generate original thought, but here are a couple of quotations about quotations.

“It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations. “ Winston Churchill 

“I love quotations because it is a joy to find thoughts one might have, beautifully expressed with much authority by someone recognized wiser than oneself. “  Marlene Dietrich 

Nuggets of wisdom, wit or whimsy can occasionally be mined from the right quotation, but more often than not all you find in another’s words is fool’s gold.  (that phrase is mine)

As I review my preceding words in the search for that deftly turned phrase that could be a lasting quotation, alas, I find none.  But don’t quote me on that.


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## Sythen (15 Nov 2009)

Wow I couldn't agree more! The ones that annoy me the most are the people who try to quote from the movie 300, but get it wrong, and try to pass it off as if it was historical fact that is was said. Maybe have some sort of function where people can vote on a quote, and if it goes below a certain level, the mods can look at it and make a judgement call of whether it should remain or not..


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## Greymatters (15 Nov 2009)

Educational
Motivational
Inspirational
Spiritual
Historical
Humourous  
Ideological
Philosophical
Idiotical, and
Allegorica

Not as important as yours already listed, but consider these:
- Relevant (to the topic, forum, or person)
- Chronologically acceptable (dont promote quotes supporting disproven or outdated ideological concepts... like 'peacekeeping')
- Non-Game Related (dont quote from FPS games just to make yourself look cool)


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## Blackadder1916 (16 Nov 2009)

Yet more dross appears in the military quote section.  This morning it was #1457 – attributed to “Gen. Corn Wallis”.  That attribution would , of course, indicate some error with the quote (if one had even the slightest familiarity with North American military history).

The quote “You do your best business on Main Street” actually is a good maxim and has often been repeated, though it was not said by Cornwallis (but there is a slight connection, if one is a fan of the TV show MASH).

In the episode “The General Flipped At Dawn” a loony general officer (played by Harry Morgan before he became Col Potter) comes to inspect 4077 MASH.  Among the many ridiculous quotations that he uses to illustrate his reasoning for odd orders is “. . . business on main street” which he attributes to Cornwallis.

There are probably many statements actually made by Lord Cornwallis that could be quoted to make a point.  This one, the opening sentence of his letter dated 18 December 1780 to Banastre Tarleton, may well apply to the person who added quote #1457.

“Our friends hereabouts are so timid and so stupid that I can get no intelligence.”


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## Blackadder1916 (24 Nov 2009)

Errors again!  This time it is quote #1358.



> "All great crimes begin in comittee" Traver Lautens 30 June 2005 Winnipeg Free Press


Though a nice turn of phrase, it would be better if the one who added this quote had correctly spelled "committee" as well as the first name of the author "Trevor".  Since most searches for this phrase will turn up blogs that repeat the particular Free Press column that Mr. Lautens wrote, here's a link to one of them.  It's a good read.  Interestingly, he refers to quoting (or misquoting) early in the piece.


> Derivatively -- and what better time than Canada (nee Dominion) Day to quote or misquote an American? . . .


While Mr. Lautens did (in that column) write the phrase used for #1358, it was not exactly that -


> One finally learns that a single act of personal kindness and civility that lightens a heart and makes life more endurable is more virtuous than an act of Parliament. *(To quote myself: All great crimes begin in committee.)*


Of course, he does not indicate when, where or in what context he made the original statement. 

When I see errors of spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., I am always reminded of a course I attended in the 80s at a pleasant little facility on Avenue Road in Toronto.  The importance of the correct application of English language was stressed at Staff School.  All had to take a threshold English grammar test at the beginning of the course (supposedly the same test first year UofT students did); those not achieving a certain level had mandatory remedial English (popularly known as "dummy English") each morning before the regular class schedule.  A surprising number were mandatory participants.  Those of us who remembered our high school English were able to sleep in or leisurely partake of breakfast.

My syndicate's DS had a particular fondness for using quotations and one of the activities (unique to our syndicate) he had us do was to (individually) have ready quotations that would illustrate a principle of war, leadership, military writing, etc . . . or was related to a topic being discussed.  In those days before easy research via the internet, such preparation required actual reading of books.


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## Blackadder1916 (7 Dec 2009)

Again a quote was presented on the mainpage that left me wondering.

http://www.army.ca/quotes/?shownum=1037&direction=-1


> Quote #1037 of 1506:
> 
> Without the threat of death there's no reason to live at all
> - Brian Warner



Who is Brian Warner and why is this quote deserving of inclusion in the military quote section?  The name was unfamiliar to me, as was the quote.  It was a reasonably crafted turn of phrase, but did not seem (to me) to be exceptionally valid unless Mr. Warner’s discussion was about cherishing life in the face of death.

With minimal research, I discovered that Brian Warner is more familiarly known as “Marilyn Manson”.  I had heard of him by that name, however I was only subjected to knowledge of his existence because the media reports on just about any idiot claiming to be an entertainer.  I’ve never (deliberately) listened to any of his music.

Assuming that what is quoted are lyrics from one of his songs, I did find the phrase in “The Reflecting God”.  Without spending much time on analyzing the song, I found nothing that would place it in any context of military duty, service before self, or even the (superior) quality of life.

Why then would someone add it to this site’s database?  And was there a particular reason why it wasn’t attributed to the more familiar name of the author?  In looking at the quotes that preceded and followed #1037, I noticed that the authors were in alphabetical order.  On one of the websites of ‘military’ quotes that I found in my search these three quotations are similarly listed in order with the exact same attributions.  I thus surmise that whomever added these quotes simply copied some words about which they had no comprehension of meaning or context; in other words, a lazy idiot was responsible.


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## Michael OLeary (7 Dec 2009)

http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/QuotesDeath.html



> "Without the threat of death, there's no reason to live... at all."    — Marilyn Manson.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Manson



> Marilyn Manson (born January 5, 1969 as Brian Hugh Warner), is an American musician and artist known for his controversial stage persona and image as the lead singer of the eponymous band, Marilyn Manson.




My concern with this type of quote is that there is no useful military context in which the source doesn't make that quote sadly out of context.  While it may read as a nice one-liner as quotes go, what use does it have to members of Milnet.ca?


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## daftandbarmy (7 Dec 2009)

"Quoting: the act of repeating erroneously the words of another."

Ambrose Bierce 


A good quote should prompt a moment of uncomfortable self-recognition for the reader. For example, the above quote suggests that those who post quotes are, in some way, wrong. 

Geez... now I feel like an idiot...  :-[


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## MARS (8 Dec 2009)

I must admit though, that I do enjoy the quotes from Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, the Iraqi Information Minister.  I do not know which category they currently fall under, but I do hope they remain on the site.


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## Blackadder1916 (18 Jun 2010)

A recent quote popped up that failed to be attributed to the gentleman who is usually cited as the author.

http://www.army.ca/quotes/?shownum=694&direction=1


> Quote #694 of 1546:
> 
> On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless many who, on the eve of victory rested, and resting, died there.
> - *Unknown*



It is a well turned phrase and should be appropriately acknowledged as being from Adlai Stevenson  (though it is usually cited without any reference as to source).  Stevenson was an American politician and diplomat and noted for his eloquent oratory. 

Many would think the above quote (evoking an image of a battlefield) had emanated from someone well versed in war however Stevenson is probably more well known for his intellectual and reasoned approach to diplomacy. (as noted by the following quotes)


> A wise man does not try to hurry history.  Many wars have been avoided by patience and many have been precipitated by reckless haste.
> - Speeches of Adlai Stevenson (1952), p. 39
> 
> In matters of national security emotion is no substitute for intelligence, nor rigidity for prudence.  To act coolly, intelligently and prudently in perilous circumstances is the test of a man — and also a nation.
> ...



Yet, probably, the most widely viewed public performance of his diplomatic duties demonstrated that there was steel in his words and resolve.


> You are in the courtroom of world opinion…. All right, sir, let me ask you one simple question: Do you, Ambassador Zorin, deny that the U.S.S.R. has placed and is placing medium- and intermediate-range missiles and sites in Cuba? Yes or no — don't wait for the translation — yes or no?" [The Soviet representative refuses to answer.] "You can answer yes or no. You have denied they exist. I want to know if I understood you correctly. I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision. And I am also prepared to present the evidence in this room.
> - To Soviet U.N. Ambassador Valerian A. Zorin in the United Nations Security Council during the Cuban missile crisis (25 October 1962)



As well he was noted for his (sometimes self-deprecating) wit.


> A diplomat's life is made up of three ingredients: protocol, Geritol and alcohol.
> - As quoted in The New York Times Magazine (7 February 1965)
> 
> It's hard to lead a cavalry charge if you think you look funny on a horse.
> ...


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## McG (18 Jun 2010)

Perhapse a report/comment to mod feature is required on all quotes.

The staff once discussed adding a date field for quote entries, but (for reasons that I don't recall) it was to keep things as they are.


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## Blackadder1916 (13 Jul 2010)

If there are any entries in the military quote section that deserve belittling (and deleting), then this is one.

http://army.ca/quotes/?shownum=1336


> Quote #1336 of 1546:
> 
> Nonsense, your thoughts deserved belittling.
> - Micheal Dorosh, 4 May 2005



Long time habitués of this site will recognize the name; those who do not can go to the profile of this person, who was ‘banned’ a few years ago.  The quote, by the way, is from one of his (typical?) posts.


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## Burrows (14 Jul 2010)

I have removed the quote.  Thanks for bringing this to our attention.


Edit:  Also adjusted the attributation on the above mentioned quote by Adlai Stevenson.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Aug 2010)

While the all caps loudness of this quotation is irritating enough to suggest deletion (or correction), the lack of attribution also bugs me.
http://www.army.ca/quotes/?shownum=1173&direction=1


> Quote #1173 of 1545:
> 
> STRIKE FAST AND SUDDENLY. ATTACK WITHOUT WARNING. SECURE VICTORY BEFORE THE FOE IS AWARE OF HIS DANGER. REMEMBER ALWAYS, A WAR IS EASILY WON IF YOUR ENEMY DOES NOT KNOW HE IS FIGHTING.



Likewise, the next two consecutive quotations suffer from similar faults (as well as errors of grammar not found in the source of these items).

http://www.army.ca/quotes/?shownum=1174


> Quote #1174 of 1545:
> 
> THERE IS NO ART MORE BEAUTIFUL AND DIVERSE THEN THE ART OF DEATH


http://www.army.ca/quotes/?shownum=1175


> Quote #1175 of 1545:
> 
> LET NOT THE FEAR OF DEATH STAY YOUR HAND NOR DEFEAT YOUR COURAGE. THE WARRIOR WHO WILL PREVAIL IS THE ONE WHO CONQUERERS DEATH, WHO BECOMES ONE WITH DEATH.



Beside the shared all caps and no attribution, the general tone and subject of the items led me to suspect that these three quotations had been added by the same person and from the same source.  Quickly googling “_ STRIKE FAST AND SUDDENLY. ATTACK WITHOUT WARNING._” brought forth the information that the quote is attributed to “Maxims of Macharius the Second Lord General Solar, quoted in The Macharian Heresy by Lord Inquisitor Kryptman” which I have learned has something to do with a game called Warhammer 40,000.  The other two quotations have similar connections to the game.

While I would not want to denigrate any who participate in such fantasy gaming, I do believe that continuing to include these quotes on this site does dilute the tone of professionalism that most here hope to portray.  While “Macharias, the Second Lord General Solar” may be an astute and learned commander in whatever fantasy world that the person (who added the quotes) occasionally inhabits, if such quotes were used in a professional military setting (and were properly attributed) the credibility of the user would probably be questioned.


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