# Reduced NORAD Presence in North Bay?



## HDE (16 Jan 2006)

Hi Guys

   Does anyone know if the NORAD facilities in North Bay, Ontario are being reduced in size/restructured?  An acquaintance, originally from there, heard that it was, however she hasn't seen anything official.

Thanks!


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## Zoomie (16 Jan 2006)

The only changes that I have heard regarding North Bay is the new above-ground facility being built to replace the underground bunker (aka The Hole).


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## CF-22 Raptor (24 Jan 2006)

But why would they want to replce the underground bunker?


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## Judy (25 Feb 2006)

Because it was built during the Cold War era in the event of a nuclear attack, and it is no longer necessary to have people work a xxxxxxx underground every day.




Removed for OPSEC.


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## Arron (28 Feb 2006)

Yes the "AGC" (above ground complex) as they are calling it, is open, but not fully on-line yet.  Its a nice new building with some new equipment and scopes.  And yes the old FYQ93 is still in use with that big old green screen in the UGC.  This summer is the timeframe fore the AGC to take over operations.  Maybe i wont go so blind looking at the new flat panel screens over the big old green ones!


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## Devlin (28 Feb 2006)

One of the items I keep hearing in North Bay (my hometown) is the costs associatted with running the hole are significantly higher than that of the new AGC (Above Ground Complex). 

There is talk in the city about turning "The Hole" into a secure data storage facility. There is also talk that Heritage Canada would like to preserve the site as it is a siginificant piece of our history. I had the really incredible excperience of working in "The Hole" as a summer student when I was doing some database work for 22 Wing.


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## Judy (28 Feb 2006)

Arron said:
			
		

> Yes the "AGC" (above ground complex) as they are calling it, is open, but not fully on-line yet.  Its a nice new building with some new equipment and scopes.  And yes the old FYQ93 is still in use with that big old green screen in the UGC.  This summer is the timeframe fore the AGC to take over operations.  Maybe i wont go so blind looking at the new flat panel screens over the big old green ones!



I had a tour of the ops room in the AGC when I was there on TD - it was pretty impressive!!  MUCH better than the FYQ93.  Just wondering though - there is no trackball - I hear it's all touch screen.  How is that going to work for b/r?



			
				Devlin said:
			
		

> There is talk in the city about turning "The Hole" into a secure data storage facility. There is also talk that Heritage Canada would like to preserve the site as it is a siginificant piece of our history. I had the really incredible excperience of working in "The Hole" as a summer student when I was doing some database work for 22 Wing.



Yeah, I've heard a lot of rumours as to what is going to happen to the Hole.  I also heard it may be turned into a resort of some type.  Uhm.. yeah, not very well thought out.  First of all - last time I checked North Bay wasn't really a vacation hot spot.  Second, who wants to go down into a dungeon to sleep?

It's going to be a big overhaul whatever they're going to do with it - with all the hazardous materials, etc, it's not like they can just leave it - they've gotta do something with it.


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## Arron (28 Feb 2006)

Yes it will be a LOT cheaper to runt he AGC over the UGC, in both supplies, power and many positions cut.  Not sure if I like the loss of positions, seems like it is still the in thing to cut positions and not make some new ones.

As for what to do with the hole I have heard many ideas floating around.  I think the best thing, and to make a lot of $ would to make it a paint ball palace.  I mean there is some cool spots in there, and I'm sure it would become a North America hot spot in no time if it was done right.  Play up the whole NORAD and USSR thing, or just a deep dark dungeon idea, sell packages to fly in for a weekend or whatever.  Make it a team building place for big companies and so on.

This may be a million dollar idea for someone out there....


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## CF-22 Raptor (16 Mar 2006)

I'm confused, I was under the impression that The Hole was located inside CFB North Bay. So are they relocating the entire base elsewhere or is the hole located outside CFB North Bay? Can anybody tell me more about the Hole? What does it look like? What's inside it? What is/was its purpose? All I know is that it's a 3 level building, located deep underground. 

So now the CF is building a brand new above ground complex to replace it, ok but who wouldn't want a Canadian version of the Cheyanne Mountain Complex? Why not just renovate the hole? Though it's a lot more expensive to operate, isn't the point in the first place to design a secure building perform NORAD operations in North Bay?


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## Judy (17 Mar 2006)

You're right - the hole is a 3 storey building located 1.5 miles underground. It's just a regular office building, except no windows, obviously.  You get on a bus and ride underground, and the building is built in a cavernous area.  It's actually pretty cool to see.  There is a water supply and air pump system so that in the event of a nuclear attack, the hole could be completely sealed off and there would be enough water and air to keep people alive for awhile.  I'm not sure exactly how long 'awhile' is, but if there was a nuclear attack, I'm not sure I'd be too keen on making it out of the hole anyway.

 It was built before the Cold War.  Since the Cold War is over, the threat of nuclear attack went away.  It's quite expensive to run the UGC, so that's my understanding of why it's being closed down.  

So now they have built a new building above ground to perform the same operations.


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## Centurian1985 (13 Apr 2006)

Several years ago some there wa a humorous rumour about the Hole being turned into a conference center!


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