# CFB Shilo soldier charged with beastality



## jollyjacktar (1 Oct 2012)

FFS, what is with some people.   



> Canadian Forces member charged with bestiality
> CBC News
> Posted: Oct 1, 2012 3:40 PM CT
> Last Updated: Oct 1, 2012 4:35 PM CT
> ...


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## SharkmanSIX (1 Oct 2012)

This article + your profile picture  :-X


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## Scoobie Newbie (1 Oct 2012)

Not sure but is it normal for MP's to search a home that is in a city with their own police force and RCMP?


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## GAP (1 Oct 2012)

SharkmanSIX said:
			
		

> This article + your profile picture  :-X



only in your mind....


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## fraserdw (1 Oct 2012)

Shilo was always a dull place to be a young soldier!


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## Snaketnk (1 Oct 2012)

Not really surprising; probably ran out of things to do. People will resort to weird things when their boredom threshold is reached.


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## TN2IC (1 Oct 2012)

Is there a Highlander unit in Shilo?

Bahhh...


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## PMedMoe (1 Oct 2012)

Snaketnk said:
			
		

> Not really surprising; probably ran out of things to do. People will resort to weird things when their boredom threshold is reached.



Seriously?  Then I'm thankful I've never been _that_ bored....   :


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## Scoobie Newbie (1 Oct 2012)

This guy lives in Brandon where there is plenty to do.


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## garb811 (1 Oct 2012)

Lone Wolf AT said:
			
		

> Not sure but is it normal for MP's to search a home that is in a city with their own police force and RCMP?


Depending on the circumstances of the case and who has primary jurisdiction, yes.


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## Scoobie Newbie (1 Oct 2012)

Brandon is 28 km away in the second largest city of MB.  They don't have jurisdiction not under normal circumstances at least.  I'll go back to my lane now.


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## JesseWZ (1 Oct 2012)

Lone Wolf AT said:
			
		

> Brandon is 28 km away in the second largest city of MB.  They don't have jurisdiction not under normal circumstances at least.  I'll go back to my lane now.



It can depend on a number of factors such as where the offence was committed, who it was reported to (it was a cyber crime after all... who has primary jurisdiction on the internet?) Military Police often get called by civilians anytime a service member has committed an offence, regardless of primary jurisdiction. There is a military nexus as the alleged offender is a service member, subject to the NDA 24/7.


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## Scoobie Newbie (1 Oct 2012)

Appreciate the insight.


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## The Bread Guy (1 Oct 2012)

A reminder....

*Under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, "any person charged with an offence has the right .... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal"*​


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## garb811 (1 Oct 2012)

I think that's pretty remote JesseWZ.  We rarely, if ever, assume jurisdiction based solely on the offender being a member of the CF, unless there are pre-existing agreements for very low level offences. 

This particular article does raise a couple of questions that make me wonder if it was, indeed, MP who carried out the search warrant though, not the least of which is the RCMP doing the news release.


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## dapaterson (1 Oct 2012)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> There is a military nexus as the alleged offender is a service member, subject to the NDA 24/7.



Not all service members are subject to the NDA 24/7.


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## jollyjacktar (1 Oct 2012)

SharkmanSIX said:
			
		

> This article + your profile picture  :-X


Tell you what pal, when you've had some T.I. here and know me some, then you can take the piss.  Till then...


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## vonGarvin (1 Oct 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Not all service members are subject to the NDA 24/7.



True:


> 60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:
> (a) an officer or non-commissioned member of the regular force;
> (b) an officer or non-commissioned member of the special force;
> (c) an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is
> ...



Assuming that the accused is a member of the regular force, then he or she would be 24/7 subject to the code.


Eeep!  Edit to add source here:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/N-5/page-19.html#h-38NDA


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## Danjanou (1 Oct 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> A reminder....
> 
> *Under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, "any person charged with an offence has the right .... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal"*​



In addition to that just a gentle reminder that this case may attract a lot of attention from the media and public and that usually leads to them showing up here looking for quotes etc. Be very careful of what you post. As of now this thread will be closely moderated. STAFF


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## FJAG (1 Oct 2012)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> .... There is a military nexus as the alleged offender is a service member, subject to the NDA 24/7.



I think the 24/7 rule merely means that the member (assuming he's Reg F or a Class B or C reservist) is subject to the Code of Service Discipline. It does not establish a military nexus. 

Military nexus is/was a legal doctrine requiring that in order for a military court to have jurisdiction to try an offender the offence had to have a real service connection. The principle has changed over the last four decades as the laws changed. There is a good and fairly recent analysis of the law delivered by Justice Letourneau of the CMAC to Yale in 2011 at this link http://www.law.yale.edu/The_Status_of_the_Military_Nexus_Doctrine_in_Canada.pdf 

In short the civilian and military courts have concurrent jurisdiction and the doctrine of military nexus may no longer apply. The court clearly recognized that by being tried by court martial, an accused can lose certain fundamental rights which he would not lose if tried by a civilian court. These are systemic issues and I won't go through them here but Letourneau does a pretty good job of summarizing them in his paper. 

I'm not generally a fan of Letourneau. I don't agree with a lot of his judgements but in this case I tend to be on his side when he says "That being said, since military and civilian courts have concurrent jurisdiction over ordinary criminal law offences, how should it be determined which court should exercise it in a given case?  A reasonable observer, well informed, would be justified in asking the following questions.  Why should a soldier charged with a serious ordinary criminal law offence, committed entirely in civilian-like circumstances, be deprived of his constitutional right to a jury trial as well as the substantive and procedural rights given to a civilian before civilian courts?  Merely because he is a soldier?  Since he risks his life for our collective benefit, should he not be entitled to, if not a better, at least an equal treatment before and under the law?  Should not the rule under the Constitution be equal justice for one and for all rather than equal justice for all except for one who is a soldier?"

The news article is light on facts but it appears this individual may have during his off duty time attempted to aid or abet another civilian to commit bestiality (incidentally its bestiality in the CCC not beastality). There may also have been pornographic material on his civilian computer located at his home in Brandon.

In those circumstances (if in fact they are correct) I would think that the more appropriate investigators should be the Brandon Police Service and the local provincial courts should try the case.

By the way I've lived over thirty years in total in Brandon and Shilo and there certainly are other things to do there. On the other hand I left there six years ago because I just couldn't handle the nine months of sub zero snow and icy winds followed by three months of mosquitoes.


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## OldSolduer (1 Oct 2012)

Nothing on the supper news here in Winnipeg that I know of.


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## GAP (1 Oct 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Nothing on the supper news here in Winnipeg that I know of.



Nah, the big story is the massive fire about a block from my work....they kicked us all out over a 8-10 square block area. Apparently 10 of thousands of litres of bio diesel and a tank car of methanol are threatened.....


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## The Bread Guy (2 Oct 2012)

Given the nature of the allegations, and remembering that all accused are to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, I'm going to lock this one up for a bit.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


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## The Bread Guy (2 Oct 2012)

garb811 said:
			
		

> .... This particular article does raise a couple of questions that make me wonder if it was, indeed, MP who carried out the search warrant though, not the least of which is the RCMP doing the news release.


Question answered here....


> ....  Following an investigation *aided by the Canadian Forces military police*, a search was carried out at the suspect’s house near Brandon and computers were seized on Sept. 28.
> 
> RCMP said a 31-year-old man was arrested and charged with bestiality and procuring and circulating obscene matter ....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Oct 2012)

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/10/24/20305876.html

Soldier charged with bestiality...again 

By QMI Agency 


WINNIPEG - A 31-year-old member of Canadian Forces Base Shilo is accused of soliciting a woman to join him in acts of bestiality — just days after he was arrested for the same offence. 

According to Brandon, Man., police, a woman told them that on Oct. 2 a man on an online dating website asked her to participate in sex acts that included bestiality with a dog. 
The suspect was arrested Tuesday. 

RCMP also arrested him on Sept. 28 for similar offences involving another woman that allegedly occurred Sept. 10. The soldier was released on strict conditions after Mounties seized computers from his home near Brandon, which is located about 215 km west of Winnipeg. 

The accused is scheduled to appear in court Oct. 29 on charges of soliciting illicit sexual intercourse, bestiality and circulating obscene matter


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## The Bread Guy (26 Feb 2013)

> A Manitoba-based soldier deployed twice to Afghanistan is being jailed for 90 days after he offered to pay a girl and a woman to have sex with him and a dog.
> 
> Tyson Larry Shiels of Canadian Forces Base Shilo admitted to contacting the 17-year-old teen and the woman online last September and offered both $2,000 to have sex.
> 
> ...


The Canadian Press, 26 Feb 13


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