# DART team headed for Pakistan



## COBRA-6 (15 Oct 2005)

_Canada's DART team headed for Pakistan, PM says
CTV.ca News Staff

Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team will be deployed to earthquake-shattered areas of Pakistan, Prime Minister Paul Martin announced Friday.

"This deployment will provide added value in response to the current crisis. Canada will act as quickly as possible to deploy the DART to help those in need," Martin said in a statement. 

"Co-ordination among relief agencies and with the Government of Pakistan are proceeding smoothly and I join the United Nations Secretary-General in calling on all donors to continue to support these efforts.

"This is a complicated relief operation, and it will be essential that we all ensure we are contributing to an effective overall response."

The 200-member team has the capability to provide clean water and medical care to quake survivors.

A giant Antonov transport plane is expected to arrive Friday at the air base in Trenton, where DART stores its equipment. The jet will be loaded overnight and will depart Saturday for Islamabad.

The main body of the DART unit, comprising medical technicians, logistics experts and engineers, likely won't fly out until early next week. 

However, it's not yet clear which part of Pakistan they will set up camp.

According to the Prime Minister's Office, Canada sent an assessment team to Pakistan on Oct. 11, following a request from the government of Pakistan.

They have "the task of working with relevant authorities and international agencies to identify intermediate actions that Canada could take in support of relief and recovery efforts, including the possibility of deploying Canadian Forces assets such as the DART," the statement said.

The team has already visited most of the affected areas in Pakistan by helicopter. 

According to The Globe and Mail, a similar DART mission to Sri Lanka after last year's tsunami cost $15 million, and defence officials estimate the Pakistan mission would cost about $10 million.

DART is a military organization designed to deploy rapidly anywhere in the world to crises ranging from natural disasters to complex humanitarian emergencies.

Earlier this week, Ottawa upped its aid contribution for earthquake-ravaged South Asia to $20 million after coming under fire for what some saw as a paltry initial response.

Ottawa has also pledged to match donations made by individuals to qualifying Canadian charities up to and including Oct. 26 -- contributions must be specifically marked for the Southeast Asia earthquake response._


Looks like it's on... it will be interesting to see where they deploy to, and what security messures will be in place...


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## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> _
> Looks like it's on... it will be interesting to see where they deploy to, and what security messures will be in place...
> _


_

Oh it's on. We had topped up our DART boys here back in Feb. They were good to go for this one as per kitlist when required. Thurs brought them all back for 5th set of cadpat, GenIIIs and inserts. They rolled outta here yesterday... they didn't have room for me  :'(_


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## buzgo (15 Oct 2005)

I'm pretty sure that they are headed for Kashmir.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Operations/Plateau/news_e.asp

Its being called OP PLATEAU.


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## RecDiver (15 Oct 2005)

I wish all the best and success to them.

HOWEVER, I just want to ask out of curiosity, is that the best of using resources (i.e funds and people)? Wouldn't it have been better to send multiple field hospital units with medical staff to treat thousands of people still waiting for basic medical attention.

As a background: My mom was saved from an earthquake after spending almost 24 hours under a building back in 40s. A rumour has it, thats how she met my dad, who was part of the military looking for survivors in that region. In a recent earthquake (1999), my uncle's (85 yo retired colonel) right leg had to be amputated after being saved 18 hours later. He also lost the use of kidneys in the process. His daughter (30 yo) could not be saved from the same house.

PS: On a lighter note, I like the cartoon I saw in today's Sun. People were still watching 'Survivor' after all these recent hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, earth quakes, terrorisms.

A peaceful Sunday to you all...


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## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

The deploying DART Team does consist of field hospital capabilities as well as engineers to assist with construction, potable water requirements etc.

It's a pretty diversified group whom I'm sure will be welcomed and able to provide some much required support and aid to these devasted people. 

Sorry to hear of your families loses due to incidents such as this. Truley tagic.


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## RecDiver (15 Oct 2005)

Thank you for that info armyvern. I thought there was more to them then just producing water as claimed in some press. I am sure they will bring much needed help to where ever they are assigned. I believe in that, world becomes a better place by saving and helping one person at a time. Hopefully they will then help others when their turn comes.


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## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

DART, it's make-up and previous assitance rendered:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/DART/back_e.asp


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## RecDiver (15 Oct 2005)

I see that, they were also involved in helping Turkey during that devastating 1999 earthquake. 

Great info thru that weblink. Thank you.


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## geo (15 Oct 2005)

given the size and capabilities of both the Indian & Pakistani military, I find it somewhat silly to believe that our DART capabilities will provide much more than international window dressing and an oportunity for us to say "we were there too".

Saw some newsreports last night - showing a french field hospital in operation... and been there for a day or two by now..... while we're still only in the shipping out of our kit stages.....

Given the devastation that has happened in Gualtamala over the same past week.... would have thought our assistance would have meant more on this side of the world....

IMHO

PS I am certain that our people will do their damndest to provide the best possible support once they get there.... just think that some people in our backyard could have used some of that help


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## old fart (15 Oct 2005)

Seeing how the PAK Army has handled this, I now believe that sending in the DART is appropriate.   The Pakistan Army has not responded very well at all to this event.   The main problem being a total lack of command and control, thus resources are wasted.   They are certainly large enough to take care of this on their own.

Having spent 5+ months in the North West Frontier Province have seen how the PAK Army operate first hand, they are a large army but not overly capable force.   They are a very class oriented society and this manifests itself in a big way in their armed forces, enough said on that.

Hopefully the DART will be taking a robust D & S element.

Anyway I wish all members of the team the very best, a successful   mission and a safe return.   

But I also wondered about Columbia....


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## geo (15 Oct 2005)

Ohhhhhkay....
Nice to hear that our contribution has the potential to serve to relieve some pain and suffering.

Not so nice to hear that troops with tactical nukes are hampered in such a fashion.... would have hoped that the two armies together could have "grounded arms", worked on a unified command and thrown some muscle @ helping their people.


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## enfield (15 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> given the size and capabilities of both the Indian & Pakistani military, I find it somewhat silly to believe that our DART capabilities will provide much more than international window dressing and an oportunity for us to say "we were there too".
> 
> Saw some newsreports last night - showing a french field hospital in operation... and been there for a day or two by now..... while we're still only in the shipping out of our kit stages.....



BBC was showing British, French, and German civilian urban SAR crews there within days of the disaster, as well as US forces from the Afghanistan theatre.

I have to agree that in the grand scheme of things, with casualties on this scale, DART will in the end just be 'window dressing' - I think you'd need a lot of Antonovs with a lot of gear to make a real difference unfortunately. 
However, it will no doubt help many people and make a significant local difference. Its hard to judge these things, where saving hundreds is just a drop in the bucket. 

Seems to be a lot of critique of the Pakistani Army- my guess is that they aren't structured, trained, prepared, or flexible enough to respond effectively to this sort of thing. Too much time preparing for their own 'Fulda Gap' in Kashmir, I guess.


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## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

While, I agree that the response seems slow, I recommend that you take a tour of the DART warehouse sometime. It is something else. It is ready to deploy at any time and we are able to pack the whole warehouse up and move it out the door within hours of a major incident. 
The problem is that we have to wait for the DARTs owner, the PMO, to give the word. If they take days, it seems like it's the Military taking days, which is not the case. Therefore those of us on the ground at DART sat around feeling useless until the word finally became official. I agree, Antanov's or other large airlift capabilities would make life much easier for the Military all the way around, not just the DART.


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## Infanteer (15 Oct 2005)

DART is nice; it lets the government mollify the public for a small chunk of CF capability.  However, I hope "DART" doesn't replace "Peacekeeping" as the _raison d'etre_ of the CF for the public, especially as we prepare to head back to warfighting in Afghanistan.


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## geo (15 Oct 2005)

armyvern,
You're right..... the ability of the forces to "spool up" in short order has been proven more times than I care to think about. The ability of our masters to make use of it's resources in a timely manner is another thing.
If we wanted to be a world player in this kind of business.... buying in on a couple of C17s stratolifters or an older C5Galaxy would be in order. Our clapped out CC130s need some TLC if they are to last for any length of time.


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## old fart (15 Oct 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> DART is nice; it lets the government mollify the public for a small chunk of CF capability.   However, I hope "DART" doesn't replace "Peacekeeping" as the _raison d'etre_ of the CF for the public, especially as we prepare to head back to warfighting in Afghanistan.



I don't buy the raison d'etre comment.   It's about time the myth that our Armed Forces are "peacekeepers first" was put to bed for good.   

Peacekeeping is just one particular mission we undertake, as is disaster response.   The raison d'etre is at the end of the day in simple terms is warfighting.

The DND and CF mission statement is reproduced below:

"*Our Mission*
The mission of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces is to defend Canada, its interests and its values, while contributing to international peace and security.

Under Canadian defence policy, the Canadian Forces are called upon to fill three major roles:

Protecting Canada 

Defending North America in co-operation with the United States of America 

Contributing to peace and international security".

_*Soldiers First*_


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## honestyrules (15 Oct 2005)

I agree with armyvern on this:



> The problem is that we have to wait for the DARTs owner, the PMO, to give the word. If they take days, it seems like it's the Military taking days, which is not the case.



In fact, the DART got the official call in the morning on friday, and the Gagetown crew was on the bus to Trenton at 1800hrs the same day..


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## paracowboy (15 Oct 2005)

old fart said:
			
		

> I don't by the raison d'etre comment.   It's about time the myth that our Armed Forces are "peacekeepers first" was put to bed for good.
> 
> Peacekeeping is just one particular mission we undertake, as is disaster response.   The raison d'etre is at the end of the day in simple terms is warfighting.


Infy (he loves it when you call him that) agrees with this statement, and that's what he's saying:


> However, I hope "DART" doesn't replace "Peacekeeping" as the raison d'etre of the CF _*for the public*_, especially as we prepare to head back to warfighting in Afghanistan.


He's hoping that the Lie-berals don't try to use DART the way they used "Peace-keeping" as our raison d'etre. 

At least, that how I read it.


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## sheikyerbouti (15 Oct 2005)

2 questions:

 1) Isn't the DART structured as a follow on force meant to be deployed within  2 weeks or so?

 2)Why do people insist on purchasing overpriced American kit, when we seem to use the highly capable Antonov's that are available for a much fairer price?


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## geo (15 Oct 2005)

The An-124 entered service in 1986. 
some 55 aircraft have been built.
The Russian military operates 28 An-124 aircraft
Antonovs are or were very capable aircraft... built russian/ukranian simple and tough.
I would have somre reservations with a NATO compatability issues. 
If you're flying a CC130 into any NATO country, you're fairly certain you can pick up support & parts.... which you won't get from the Antonov.
Of course you don't want or count on your aircraft breaking down.... but what if.

You are correct that DART is more suited for follow on work... no search & rescue teams, dogs & the like.... water purification, field hospital, engineering demolition and stabilisation of situation...


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## Infanteer (16 Oct 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> At least, that how I read it.



Thanks for covering my six


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## old fart (16 Oct 2005)

Paracowboy, I do understand what you are saying, and I wanted to take it that way for myself on the initial read.  

I believed though that as written the inference or connotation of the raison d'etre comment can be taken the opposite way.  

Meaning that our DS commentator appeared concerned that the stature of peacekeeping could be affected (knocked of it's pedestal) in the publics eyes.  Even if he had highlighted "*for the public*" or perhaps placed in italics for himself I would still unfortunately take it the same way.

The bottom line we are all on the same sheet of music, and I was fairly certain of that to begin with.  Clarity is everything.

I will now get off my anti peacekeeping (anti UN) pedestal.

AIRBORNE-CHIMO-UBIQUE


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## paracowboy (16 Oct 2005)

old fart said:
			
		

> I will now get off my anti peacekeeping (anti UN) pedestal.
> 
> AIRBORNE-CHIMO-UBIQUE


no no! Stay right here! Plenty of room on this pedestal for everybody.


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## armyvern (17 Oct 2005)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20051017.QUAKEMAIN17/BNPrint/theglobeandmail/TopStories

http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory4.aspx?id=8c75c455-40bb-4c31-b743-285a838223e9


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## geo (18 Oct 2005)

.... and now the "fun" starts....

I wish them all well!

CHIMO!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Nov 2005)

Petawawa soldier leads medical team 

MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan (CP) - Villagers of a remote mountain community in quake-struck Pakistan were either alarmed or amused as a thin silver needle was administered to some who may have come in contact with a diphtheria patient.  


"Most of them had never had an immunization or a needle before in their life, so it was quite an interesting draw for the whole village," said Warrant Officer Christine Styles, who led a small Canadian Forces medical team to the village of Bucchasyaedan, high in the Pakistan region of Kashmir. 

Styles, a Whitby, Ont., native based at CFB Petawawa, led a four-person contingent of the Canadian Forces' Disaster Assistance Response Team - DART - to vaccinate a group of people Tuesday who had close contact with a diphtheria patient. The communicable disease can be fatal if not treated.


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## George Wallace (17 Aug 2010)

The possibility exists that the Canadian Government may again send the DART team to Pakistan.  When I read a Canadian Public Civil Servant saying this, all I can say is....WTF ?

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.


*
Keep Taliban out of Pakistan aid calculations, says Pakistan's top diplomat in Canada
*

By Norma Greenaway, Postmedia News
August 16, 2010

LINK 

OTTAWA — Fears the Taliban and other extremist groups will exploit gaps in international and domestic aid efforts in Pakistan to gain a stronger foothold in the flood-ravaged country are unfounded, says the country's high commissioner to Canada.

Akbar Zeb said current and future international aid commitments, plus a generous outpouring of help from "moderate" Islamic groups within Pakistan will not leave a void for extremist organizations to exploit.

"I'm not really concerned the Taliban will be filling a vacuum," Zed said Monday in an interview with Postmedia News.

"What people need to do is distinguish really between the so-called moderate forces and the really hardliners. The Taliban constitute a very minute portion of Pakistan."

He also said the government of Pakistan is "fully focused and able to reach out to its own people."

Members of the 300,000-strong Pakistani diaspora in Canada said they worry the generosity of the Conservative government and individual Canadians could be affected by the political situation in Pakistan, including questions about the government's will to curb the presence and influence of the Taliban along the border with Afghanistan.

They said they are particularly disappointed the federal government, which has announced $33 million in emergency assistance to Pakistan, has not offered to match dollars donated by individual Canadians — something it quickly offered to do earlier this year when Haiti was hit with a horrific earthquake.

Farrukh Alam, president of the Canada Pakistan Association, says he's disheartened by talk about how the Taliban might play into the crisis, and why people should think twice about donating because the money could be siphoned off by the Taliban and distributed in its own name.

"Forget the Taliban. Forget the political calculations," Alam said in an interview from Vancouver. "When people are in trouble you go help."

Zeb described Canada's commitment to provide $33 million in emergency aid as "very, very generous," and said he expects the Conservative government will add to the pot if necessary.

"The message we get is that they will continue to assess our needs," Zeb said, noting discussions are ongoing between the two governments on if and when to deploy Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART).

The government reiterated Monday it has no plans to establish a matching fund "at this time" to respond to the disaster, which has left an estimated 20 million people homeless and possibly thousands dead.

The Canadian International Development Agency, the lead organization on the file, says the current response is "appropriate," and that a "matching fund" is only one of many tools in Canada's response kit.

Farooq Chaudhry, president of the Pakistani Canadian Cultural Society, said he hasn't given up hope the government will agree eventually to match private donations.

Chaudhry said the slower response on Pakistan is understandable. The needs in Haiti were urgent and captured in heartbreaking detail by cameras, he said.

By contrast, the flooding of huge swaths of land in far-flung Pakistan is a slower-moving tragedy that will have devastating consequences for years and decades, but which might not have had the same initial impact on donors.

© Copyright (c) Postmedia News

===================================================================

I wonder if these guys have been living under a rock and looking at life through rose coloured glasses.  The thoughts of the Taliban cashing in on the generosity of the West, and then turning around and attacking the West when the floods recede, have been heavy on the back of my mind.  Reports have already been coming out of Pakistan of the Taliban cashing in on the inability of the Pakistan Government to get relief to outlying areas, and providing aid to locals where the Government couldn't.

I, frankly, am quite suspicious of how aid and aid monies will be distributed to those who need it.  I worry that all the people arriving to provide aid, from Western nations and militaries will soon become targets of Taliban insurgents.  I see no reason why these fears should be dismissed as unfounded.


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## PMedMoe (17 Aug 2010)

Well, I can tell you the DART is not going.


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## vonGarvin (17 Aug 2010)

[tangent]  DART stands for "Disaster Assistance Response Team", so what exactly is a DART Team?  Is it Disaster Assistance Response Team Team? [/tangent]

Anyway, CIDA states in the article that the current response is appropriate.


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## Journeyman (17 Aug 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> .....so what exactly is a DART Team?


Generally, it's four old guys who throw pointy things at Legion walls between drinks

[_out tangenting your tangent _   ]


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## PPCLI Guy (17 Aug 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The possibility exists that the Canadian Government may again send the DART team to Pakistan.  When I read a Canadian Public Civil Servant saying this, all I can say is....WTF ?



There are no quotes at all from Canadian Public Civil Servants in this article - they are predominately from the Pakistani High Commissioner to Canada.


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## observor 69 (17 Aug 2010)

Having read :
Three Cups of Tea
One Man’s Mission to Promote Peace . . . One School at a Time
By Greg Mortenson and David Oliver Relin
http://www.threecupsoftea.com/

I think there is solid reason to worry that the Taliban will come in and fill part of the vacuum created by the lack of NGO and or Pakistan government response.
In his book Mortenson speaks of this happening during the previous flood.
He also mentions the US military response and what a great improver of the American image this help was among the Pakistan people in the flood damaged areas. Sort of a form of COIN.


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## George Wallace (17 Aug 2010)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> There are no quotes at all from Canadian Public Civil Servants in this article - they are predominately from the Pakistani High Commissioner to Canada.



Damn.  My bad........Again.

Must NOT read articles too quickly.


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## Edward Campbell (17 Aug 2010)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Having read :
> Three Cups of Tea
> One Man’s Mission to Promote Peace . . . One School at a Time
> By Greg Mortenson and David Oliver Relin
> ...




I I think you are correct. I have read and heard reports saying that _"it has emerged that a charity connected to a group with alleged al-Qaeda links has been providing flood relief."_

The charity is question is the Falah-e-Insaniat Foundation which is, apparently, linked to (part of?) Jamaat-ud-Dawa which is, in most countries, including Canada, I think, deemed to be a terrorist organization.

It appears, to me, that the Falah-e-Insaniat Foundation is a _legitimate_ charity, but it is one with shady supporters and, like e.g. USAID, its humanitarian and development work is done in pursuit of an identifiable political agenda. 


Edit: typo


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## Journeyman (17 Aug 2010)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> The charity is question is the Falah-e-Insaniat Foundation which is, apparently, link to (part of?) Jamaat-ud-Dawa which is, in most countries, including Canada, I think, deemed to be a terrorist organization.


Jamaat-ud-Dawa is a feeder group of Lashkar-e-Taiba (Righteous Army), a Pakistan-based, fun-loving bunch of suicide bombers with a history of attacks on civilians, government officials, and Indian security forces. 

According to Public Safety Canada's website, they've been listed as a terrorist organization in Canada since 2003.


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## George Wallace (26 Aug 2010)

It doesn't stay out of the news for long.  

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act:

Pakistan to request DART help
26/08/2010 3:19:49 PM
CBC News 

LINK

*The Pakistani government will soon ask Canada to deploy its rapid disaster response team to flood-ravaged areas in the country, a spokesman at Pakistan's embassy in Ottawa says.*

Muhammad Saleem, the embassy's deputy high commissioner, told CBC News on Thursday that his country is looking forward to receiving the Disaster Assistance Response Team, also known as DART, to augment relief efforts.

"It may happen today; it may happen tomorrow," Saleem said of the pending request. 

DART is made up of about 200 Canadian Forces personnel and is designed to fly quickly into disaster areas around the world. The primary goal of the team is to provide emergency services, such as drinking water and medical treatment, until long-term aid arrives.

The Canadian government makes the decision to send DART after it receives a request from an individual country or the United Nations.

Canada has not yet received an official request for the services of DART from the Pakistani government in Ottawa or Islamabad, Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Catherine Loubier said Thursday.

Loubier said Canadian officials are in daily contact with the Pakistani government on the best way for Canada to continue helping in relief efforts.

Saleem said the disaster stretches from the north to the south of the country.

The UN estimates that more than 17 million people have been affected by the floods, which began almost a month ago with hammering monsoon rains in the country's northwest. About 1.2 million homes have been destroyed, leaving five million people homeless.

Most of the more than 1,500 deaths occurred early in the flooding, but officials say the crisis is still growing.

With files from The Associated Press


=====================================================================


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## PuckChaser (26 Aug 2010)

Will it actually be DART this time, or will 5 Bde take over?


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## REDinstaller (26 Aug 2010)

I don't think French is the language of choice in Pakistan, and the HLTA plan isn't acceptable either.


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## vonGarvin (27 Aug 2010)

As a lesson to the greater army, I recommend that the DART deploy complete with HLTA plan, starting from day 1.



(I think that HLTA is a force anti-multiplier, and a hangover from tours in Cyprus, of which I did one)


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## REDinstaller (27 Aug 2010)

Or you can turn a Coy sized deployment into a BG(+) with HLTA replacements


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## medicineman (27 Aug 2010)

Add an entire J staff + as well...might as well get as many people out as possible.

MM


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## armyvern (27 Aug 2010)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Add an entire J staff + as well...might as well get as many people out as possible.
> 
> MM



Funny 5 Bge became "DART" for Haiti; I heard they were also asked to 'make like' a JTFSC (hey, apparently it's possibly in my future list of 'joints' I belong to).

I'm sure we could get the entire of Can Div deployed if we just wait a year or so.  ;D


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## dapaterson (27 Aug 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> (I think that HLTA is a force anti-multiplier, and a hangover from tours in Cyprus, of which I did one)



Only one hangover from Cyrus?


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## Armymedic (27 Aug 2010)

You don't get hung over if you stay drunk.


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## Armymedic (27 Aug 2010)

On the more serious side; If Canada was to deploy DART, the time frame for actual "help" could be past if we do not get our butts in gear and get ever there yesterday. Being a flood, clean drinking water and medical help (to stem the cholera epidemic thats started) was needed last week. 

Its a non-issue in the Canadian news, and highly unlikely any more response is going to happen.


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## vonGarvin (27 Aug 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Only one hangover from *Cyrus*?


Two, actually:







Now my heart is all achy-breaky.


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## REDinstaller (27 Aug 2010)

So the Technoviking doesn't dance to the music..... Only Achey Breaky Heart. Nice.


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## armyvern (28 Aug 2010)

SFB said:
			
		

> On the more serious side; If Canada was to deploy DART, the time frame for actual "help" could be past if we do not get our butts in gear and get ever there yesterday. Being a flood, clean drinking water and medical help (to stem the cholera epidemic thats started) was needed last week.
> 
> Its a non-issue in the Canadian news, and highly unlikely any more response is going to happen.



You do realize of course that DART does not have a security element?? Pakistan is, despite the media's tendancy to downplay it, a Taliban breeding ground. I agree with you, and my subordinates who are HR'd to DART would too as we all see that the DART certainly would be useful, but that security has to be a component of any deployment in to the area in question. 

My .02 cents on any thoughts for the hold-up:  No robust security element avail or cobbled together = no DART in Pakistan. I'd assume too, that staff checks are being done as we speak at some of those units able to force generate required D&S personnel & augmentees.


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## Journeyman (28 Aug 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> My .02 cents on any thoughts for the hold-up:  No robust security element avail or cobbled together = no DART in Pakistan.


OK, my .02 cents on any hold-up (if there _is_ a hold-up) is that it's based only upon "lack of political interest/will."


- If the gov't decided to send the DART, they wouldn't be bothered by trifling details such as dedicated security elements, they'd say "DART, go." 

- CEFCOM would say, "2 RCHA, since one of your high-readiness tasks is DART support, throw 'security issues' into your shopping cart and get on the road."

- CO 2 RCHA would likely say, "could we at least get some KY with that?"

...but the troops would make it happen.


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## medicineman (28 Aug 2010)

I thought there was supposed to be a rifle company minus as security for DART as part of the organization or did that change?

MM


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## ModlrMike (28 Aug 2010)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I thought there was supposed to be a rifle company minus as security for DART as part of the organization or did that change?
> 
> MM



I think the TO&E is intact, the question I suppose is:

Who's going to fill it?


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## Blackadder1916 (28 Aug 2010)

> I thought there was supposed to be a rifle company minus as security for DART as part of the organization or did that change?
> 
> MM



Not a coy(-) but a platoon - according to this fact sheet at CEFCOM.
http://www.comfec-cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/fs-fr/dart-eicc-eng.asp


> Concept of operations
> 
> The *DART deploys only to “permissive” environments* — that is, only to regions where the government supports its presence and it will not face organized resistance to its operations.
> . . . . .
> ...






> I think the TO&E is intact, the question I suppose is:
> 
> Who's going to fill it?



Probably the same as the other elements or individuals who make up the DART - by the units/pers who are already pre-tasked to form the DART.


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## vonGarvin (28 Aug 2010)

I loved this line:


> Defence and Security Platoon (*44 CF members*): Defence and Security Platoon is the DART’s source of security and *general labour services*.


First of all, infantry platoons are 39 all ranks, 40 if you include a medic attached.  The other four?  No idea.  

I guess those extra four are to help with "general labour services". :


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## Armymedic (28 Aug 2010)

Before I respond to Vern, thanks for the org chart. What DART has is sufficient security for areas in the south of Pakistan where the floods are ravaging right now. Can it be worse than the first deployment to post-genocide Rwanda when every one still had guns and machetes?

Yes, if the DART would deploy to Pakistan, it would need to ensure security by having a location where minimal travel is required away from its AOR. The team would probably work best sited in close proximity to a refuge camp where it can provide clean drinking water and assist with the epidemics at the same time.

edit to add: ...but as it seems that the need for aid in Pakistan is so far off Canadian's radar with the wonderful summer weather we are currently enjoying, our discussion seems to be a mute point.


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## armyvern (29 Aug 2010)

SFB said:
			
		

> Before I respond to Vern, thanks for the org chart. What DART has *is sufficient security * for areas in the south of Pakistan where the floods are ravaging right now. ...



Well, that doesn't jive with the briefing I recd last week.


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## Armymedic (29 Aug 2010)

Who is trying to say that 120 armed professional Canadian soldiers with robust ROEs can not provide sufficient security for themselves, while working amongst civilians under austere conditions in a well sited position?

I would imagine that the proposed mission envisioned is not quite the same as what I know of DART's potential role in such a disaster.


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## vonGarvin (29 Aug 2010)

Providing security is a 100% of the time job.  One must be vigilant, watch for threats, and so on, and so forth.


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## greentoblue (29 Aug 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I loved this line:First of all, infantry platoons are 39 all ranks, 40 if you include a medic attached.  The other four?  No idea.
> 
> I guess those extra four are to help with "general labour services". :



From Op HESTIA (Haiti) I believe those four extra bodies are an MP det to liaise with local police as well as handle prisoners.  On HESTIA the MP det was kept busy assisting the embassy with security, screening repat civilians and liaising with the Haitian National Police and US Military Police for combined/joint airfield security.  Oh yes, they also provided Close Protection to various commanders as I recall.


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## vonGarvin (29 Aug 2010)

greentoblue said:
			
		

> From Op HESTIA (Haiti) I believe those four extra bodies are an MP det to liaise with local police as well as handle prisoners.  On HESTIA the MP det was kept busy assisting the embassy with security, screening repat civilians and liaising with the Haitian National Police and US Military Police for combined/joint airfield security.  Oh yes, they also provided Close Protection to various commanders as I recall.


Makes sense.  Thanks.


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## Retired AF Guy (29 Aug 2010)

SFB said:
			
		

> Who is trying to say that 120 armed professional Canadian soldiers with robust ROEs can not provide sufficient security for themselves, while working amongst civilians under austere conditions in a well sited position?
> 
> I would imagine that the proposed mission envisioned is not quite the same as what I know of DART's potential role in such a disaster.



One thing we are missing here is would Pakistan allow us to send a security detachment along with the DART? Allowing an armed foreign military force into Pakistan would be a very political sensitive subject, especially in light of various warnings from Islamic fundamentalist groups that foreigners are not welcome. The alternative would be for the Pakistani forces to provide security, which if I was a DART member would not give a warm fuzzy feeling. Its entirely possible that this may be one of the hang-ups that is delaying the deployment of the DART into Pakistan.


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## vonGarvin (29 Aug 2010)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> One thing we are missing here is would Pakistan allow us to send a security detachment along with the DART? Allowing an armed foreign military force into Pakistan would be a very political sensitive subject, especially in light of various warnings from Islamic fundamentalist groups that foreigners are not welcome. The alternative would be for the Pakistani forces to provide security, which if I was a DART member would not give a warm fuzzy feeling. Its entirely possible that this may be one of the hang-ups that is delaying the deployment of the DART into Pakistan.


The DART has been to Pakistan rather recently.  It wouldn't be a first.


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## Retired AF Guy (30 Aug 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> The DART has been to Pakistan rather recently.  It wouldn't be a first.



True, but did they have a security element with them? Al


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## Blackadder1916 (30 Aug 2010)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> True, but did they have a security element with them? Al



There is an intergral D&S platoon in the DART, so yes there would have been a security element with them.  According to this backgrounder it does not appear that any additional security was taken.


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