# Buttstock reccomendations



## DirtyDog (8 Oct 2009)

Just looking for opinions for an aftermarket buttstock replacement for the C7A2.  I've never felt the issue buttstock sat in the shoulder well when wearing the TV and PPE, especially when they are lacking the rubber end as most are around here.  I've adapted and seem to manage well but it has always seemed like a weak point for me.  I'd also be interested in a model that has a (perhaps adjustable) cheek weld unless anyone can tell me why that would be a bad idea.

Keep in mind I carry an M203 most of the time as well.

Thanks.


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Oct 2009)

I use one from Command Arms:

http://www.commandarms.com/product.asp?pID=87&cID=57

I have the cheek riser on mine and it gives quite a bit of flexibilty, when it comes to cheeks welds, depending on the sighting system I'm running at the time.

Compared to some other products, I find the cost\use\versatility quite good and more than pocket book acceptable.

It can also be ordered for a mil-spec buffer tube, so you can just slide the issue one off and slide the CAA one on.


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## medaid (8 Oct 2009)

Oh jebus recceguy that thing'll just do anything won't it? Does it also make your coffee for you in the morning?  ;D

How easy is it to slide the current stock off? I've got a CTR that I'd like to place on to the A2 which fits my needs that much more... 

Also, slight hijack. If you place railed fore ends on to the A2, does the picantiny thing interfere with the fore ends at all? As in, will they bump into it making it uninstallable?


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## COBRA-6 (8 Oct 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Oh jebus recceguy that thing'll just do anything won't it? Does it also make your coffee for you in the morning?  ;D
> 
> How easy is it to slide the current stock off? I've got a CTR that I'd like to place on to the A2 which fits my needs that much more...
> 
> Also, slight hijack. If you place railed fore ends on to the A2, does the picantiny thing interfere with the fore ends at all? As in, will they bump into it making it uninstallable?



Are you talking about the Triad mount on the front sight block? I just removed mine (unscrewed) and popped in a Troy rail on my C8A3.


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## medaid (8 Oct 2009)

COBRA-6 said:
			
		

> Are you talking about the Triad mount on the front sight block? I just removed mine (unscrewed) and popped in a Troy rail on my C8A3.



Yes... yes senor... the ugly thing at deh front. Okay I'll just make sure my trusty multi-tool is with me and away I go. Much appreciated.


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## Redeye (8 Oct 2009)

MedTech, getting the buttstock off an A2 is easy.  Pull down on the front end of the lower portion (ie the opposite of the side you would squeeze to move the stock) and slide it off.  It's just held by a springloaded pin.  The buffer tube itself doesn't need to be removed, doing so is a little more involved.


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## medaid (8 Oct 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> MedTech, getting the buttstock off an A2 is easy.  Pull down on the front end of the lower portion (ie the opposite of the side you would squeeze to move the stock) and slide it off.  It's just held by a springloaded pin.  The buffer tube itself doesn't need to be removed, doing so is a little more involved.



Gotcha! I just played with one for a short while last night. Man I hate that ambi-cocking handle jeesh... that was a bad idea.


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## Redeye (8 Oct 2009)

A regular cocking handle is about $20 I think...  Last time I was in Gagetown I got used to it though, not much a problem, unless the damned thing comes off (which happened to me).  Back in the Mo-world though we still have A1s so not a problem to deal with yet.



			
				MedTech said:
			
		

> Gotcha! I just played with one for a short while last night. Man I hate that ambi-cocking handle jeesh... that was a bad idea.


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## COBRA-6 (9 Oct 2009)

Get rid of that POS ambi cocking handle. We had about half of ours break during field firing. JUNK!


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## Snaketnk (9 Oct 2009)

I love the ambi cocking handles; it makes the weapon much easier to cock (as a right handed shooter). Doing UO drills is markedly easier. As long as you're not abusing your rifle there's no reason it should break (unless you're doing drill...)


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## brihard (9 Oct 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Back in the Mo-world though we still have A1s so not a problem to deal with yet.



Maybe you guys do.


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## MG34 (13 Oct 2009)

I can not in good conscience recommend anything made by CAA/UTG/Mako/TAPCO and the rest of the bargain basement manufacturers out there for use on a combat weapon. I have used the VLTOR Modstock/E MOD Stock and the Magpul CTR on service rifles and carbines. My recommendation would be the CTR Stock as it is a realitively low profile mod, and works as advertised. It can be found for around $ 120.00 from several Canadian dealers, The VLTOR stock is also a proven design with the capability of storing several CR123 batteries as well, it balances the C7A2 quite well.

 As for the ambi cocking handle take it to your weapons techs and exchange it for an old one if possible, I ahve seen no less than 85 fail this year alone on simple gallery ranges and Gunfighter Shoots, they are junk.


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## Redeye (13 Oct 2009)

Bri, we aren't all Camerons!

We still have guys who haven't got tac vests yet, that's how bad it seems to be with getting stuff issued for us.  We'll probably still have A1s for years to come.



			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> Maybe you guys do.


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## medaid (13 Oct 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> We still have guys who haven't got tac vests yet



Lucky them...


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## REDinstaller (13 Oct 2009)

To all, Just be advised that none of these Commercial Buttstocks or hand grips are authorized for use in Canada. The Weapons Techs(L) take a very dim view of this UNAUTHORIZED weapons modification. Only the Commander of a Unit once deployed can make the decision once in Theater.  And that is straight from the Techs under me. If in doubt ask the Weapons Sect supervisor at your unit. If you don't have a Weapons Tech at your unit, then stay well away from attempting any mods to a service weapon.


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## MG34 (13 Oct 2009)

Changing a butt stock is NOT a modification. This topic has been gone over time and time again with some do gooder weapons tech trying to flex their muscles. Non permanent  weapons furniture changes have been authorized for quite some time.


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (13 Oct 2009)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> To all, Just be advised that none of these Commercial Buttstocks or hand grips are authorized for use in Canada. The Weapons Techs(L) take a very dim view of this UNAUTHORIZED weapons modification. Only the Commander of a Unit once deployed can make the decision once in Theater.  And that is straight from the Techs under me. If in doubt ask the Weapons Sect supervisor at your unit. If you don't have a Weapons Tech at your unit, then stay well away from attempting any mods to a service weapon.



I second MG34

Tang18A - tell us how removing the handguards (which are removed for normal cleaning and maintenance anyways) and replacing them (one-for-one) with 1913 railguards is an unauthorized modification - is it somehow permanent? No gunsmithing going on as far as I can tell (unless very specific "freefloat" guards are installed - buyer beware). Similarly, could you explain how removing the adjustable butt stock (by pulling on the spring-loaded level on the bottom), sliding it off and installing another adjustable butt stock is somehow an illegal "mod" to the rifle/carbine? Both of these changes require no/no tools nor gunsmithing and can be done in a matter of seconds - and right back to stock parts - just like that. Next - the C79 scope cannot be removed or adjusted because it is considered modifying the rifle!!??


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## 1feral1 (13 Oct 2009)

For armchair armourers who think they know it all, I'll sum up by saying although the removal of a stock is simple, one false move and there goes the spring and detent into the sand or on the floor and all too often lost, and that means the take down pin is now useless (often falling out too and disappearing into the black hole on the ground/floor), so your wpn is now stuffed, and you are about to become embarassed in a big way.

Also sometimes the spring can/will protrude and end up getting bent as part of it can hang out and get squished between the stock and lower, and then the spring is rooted. Detents can also get put in backwards too.

I don't know where the CF stands on these sort of mods, but to me they breed nothing but bad news. If your unit is authorised to do such, let a qualified person change the butt stock assy over for you.

Here in Australia, unless the part is approved by DMO, its consdered an unauthorised modicifaction, as its not the stock standard, and has not gone thru testing back home.

To sum up, take it from an armourer who has been qualified since 1977, stick to what you're issued, and leave the LCF to Hollywood.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Oct 2009)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> For armchair armourers who think they know it all, I'll sum up by saying although the removal of a stock is simple, one false move and there goes the spring and detent into the sand or on the floor and all too often lost, and that means the take down pin is now useless (often falling out too and disappearing into the black hole on the ground/floor), so your wpn is now stuffed, and you are about to become embarassed in a big way.
> 
> Also sometimes the spring can/will protrude and end up getting bent as part of it can hang out and get squished between the stock and lower, and then the spring is rooted. Detents can also get put in backwards too.
> 
> ...


Let's not be tossing out any more red herrings.

No one is talking about taking off a fixed A2 stock and replacing it with a collapsable. The OP was talking about changing out the issue collapsable for and after market collapsable. There's no need to back the retaining plate off at all, which I'm sure you well know, simply a slide off, slide on operation.


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## REDinstaller (14 Oct 2009)

Recceguy- Actually we are talking about the C7A2, The C7A1 has a fixed butt.

MG34- When I get into work tomorrow I will get the Tech Bulletin Ref and the Wpns Techs just aren't do gooders, this is their job. If its not safe they are the ones to make this determination. Not some web site selling it, I don't think we have enough money floating around in the CF to buy and trial every option out there. This is why the "Sealed Pattern" used by the British Army and others exists, to give one standard. It doesn't do much good to Johnny Canuck engaging the TB out in the middle of nowhere, to have his personal buttstock shatter in the middle of a fight, when his issue one is sitting in a MOB box back in KAF.

Soldier1stTradesman2nd- Not once did I say Illegal, I said Unauthorized. Just as I said above, there is one standard of butt stock and of handguard purchased by the CF to a standard determined by the CF. Can you with out a doubt tell to what standard the furniture you have purchased with your own funds from supplier X has been manufactured? No, and neither can I, but the furniture that is presently on the C7A2 has been built to a specific standard. That is why its an Unauthorized mod with out Commanders permission overseas.


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## medaid (14 Oct 2009)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> If its not safe they are the ones to make this determination.



How is a stock mod not safe?



			
				Tango18A said:
			
		

> Not some web site selling it, I don't think we have enough money floating around in the CF to buy and trial every option out there.



That's why we went for the lowest bidder cheapest sh^t. Got it. In fact I KNOW we don't have enough money... several PRes units aren't parading or cut down on parading because of the no $ issue. 



			
				Tango18A said:
			
		

> It doesn't do much good to Johnny Canuck engaging the TB out in the middle of nowhere, to have his personal buttstock shatter in the middle of a fight, when his issue one is sitting in a MOB box back in KAF.



I haven't seen or heard any notable companies stock "shatter" in a TIC. Have you? What happens when the issued sh^t blast apart? You get a new one... a broken stock shouldn't really matter as long as the TUBE itself isn't fracked you can still fire. 



			
				Tango18A said:
			
		

> Soldier1stTradesman2nd- Not once did I say Illegal, I said Unauthorized. Just as I said above, there is one standard of butt stock and of handguard purchased by the CF to a standard determined by the CF.



Which is done without consulting many people, without looking at the world around them, without noticing that our US counterparts have moved to a completely RAILED system, and since many things have to be attached now, the fracked up front mount where there's literally NO realestate is worth SFA. 



			
				Tango18A said:
			
		

> Can you with out a doubt tell to what standard the furniture you have purchased with your own funds from supplier X has been manufactured?



Uh... YEAH. TOP NOTCH QUALITY. Troy, Knights, MagPul are ALL top notch quality manufacturers that have had more of their products in war zones, tried, tested and TRUE then our fracked up designs. Where have they been trialled? In a controlled environment? Some where in Pet? Suffield? Canaught? NDHQ? Please... why do you think more and more troops are getting their own rails? Because it works that's why. Because some of us are not so fracked up in thinking that... "well if it works for the US... it sure won't work for us. Lets put out a tender and ASK Canadian companies which have ZERO experience to build stuff" Yeah... great... 20% solution. 



			
				Tango18A said:
			
		

> No, and neither can I, but the furniture that is presently on the C7A2 has been built to a specific standard.



Yeah... sh^t standard. 



			
				Tango18A said:
			
		

> That is why its an Unauthorized mod with out Commanders permission overseas.



One day... ONE day... we're all going to wake the frack up and say... "Hey... lets not reinvent the wheel anymore, lets try to use thigns that's already been proven in combat, and that works not just for one system but for all!" GENIUS!! FREAKING GENIUS!!!

I mean don't even bring up the "US isn't us" crap. We use C7/C8, they use M16/M4... wait a minute, the last time I checked they're the SAME DAMN THING. So if ONE furniture works on the M16/M4 series why won't it work on the C7/C8 series? Oh that's right, because we're too damn stubborn and stupid to realize that we're wasting TIME, and MONEY on more staff to do useless research then to pay attention to what's already available! If it's NOT available, then by ALL FRACKING MEANS do some research, until then maybe we can worry MORE about what fracking works, then what new crappy ass sh^t we're going to give to the troops NEXT time. 

JEBUS!

..... rant off...


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## 1feral1 (14 Oct 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Let's not be tossing out any more red herrings.
> 
> No one is talking about taking off a fixed A2 stock and replacing it with a collapsable. The OP was talking about changing out the issue collapsable for and after market collapsable. There's no need to back the retaining plate off at all, which I'm sure you well know, simply a slide off, slide on operation.



I was talking about replacing a M4 style colapsable butt (as a complete unit), not a standard generic solid stock with another, and FYI some 'tubes' are different construction/thickness, including various notches to engage with different sized holes. I was just trying to help/assist, and give some well learned advice on the topic considering some of the aftermarket crap out there.

I know my subject matter, and I am registered Force wide here as a SME for small arms, which includes M16/M4 with 31 yrs on the rifle in question.

OWDU


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## 1feral1 (14 Oct 2009)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Just looking for opinions for an aftermarket buttstock replacement  for the C7A2.  I've never felt the issue buttstock sat in the shoulder well when wearing the TV and PPE, especially when they are lacking the rubber end as most are around here.  I've adapted and seem to manage well but it has always seemed like a weak point for me.  I'd also be interested in a model that has a (perhaps adjustable) cheek weld unless anyone can tell me why that would be a bad idea.
> 
> Keep in mind I carry an M203 most of the time as well.
> 
> Thanks.



In no where in this post does it mention that the 'sliding' portion is only required.

For everyone's info.

Cheers/beers,

Wes


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## HItorMiss (14 Oct 2009)

Wes

I would never doubt that you are a SME but you are being very specific because you have so much knowledge. I know DD and he is talking about just replacing the sliding portion of the Butt not the tube itself.

I for one have used VLTOR on the C7A2 to great satisfaction overseas. I reccommend that butt honestly. It really was just a matter of sliding the issue Butt off and sliding the VLTOR you just have to make sure you buy the right butt.


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Oct 2009)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Recceguy- Actually we are talking about the C7A2, The C7A1 has a fixed butt.



The fixed stock is commonly referred to as an A2 butt in US nomenclature. http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Buttstock_p/bs1034.htm While my experiance may not match that of Wes, I've built more than a couple of these rifles.

Perhaps everyone can put their dicks away and just answer the OPs question. We've been around and around in others threads about the legality of mods. Take your discussion on that point over there.


This thread is about types of sliding stocks for the C7\C8 type weapons.


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## DirtyDog (14 Oct 2009)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> To all, Just be advised that none of these Commercial Buttstocks or hand grips are authorized for use in Canada. The Weapons Techs(L) take a very dim view of this UNAUTHORIZED weapons modification. Only the Commander of a Unit once deployed can make the decision once in Theater.  And that is straight from the Techs under me. If in doubt ask the Weapons Sect supervisor at your unit. If you don't have a Weapons Tech at your unit, then stay well away from attempting any mods to a service weapon.


Well my personal weapon isn't, and shouldn't be, in the care of a weapons tech very often and I'd suprised/disturbed to hear one of them upset with a simple slide on buttstock change...


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## Snaketnk (14 Oct 2009)

Some of the most anal SMs I can imagine have walked right past guys with replaced handguards and buttstocks, so I imagine replacing the buttstock would be fine with most CoCs in the RegF Combat Arms world. The Weapons Techs I know usually enjoy seeing weapons that work for their users...


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## DirtyDog (14 Oct 2009)

MG34 said:
			
		

> I can not in good conscience recommend anything made by CAA/UTG/Mako/TAPCO and the rest of the bargain basement manufacturers out there for use on a combat weapon. I have used the VLTOR Modstock/E MOD Stock and the Magpul CTR on service rifles and carbines. My recommendation would be the CTR Stock as it is a realitively low profile mod, and works as advertised. It can be found for around $ 120.00 from several Canadian dealers, The VLTOR stock is also a proven design with the capability of storing several CR123 batteries as well, it balances the C7A2 quite well.
> 
> As for the ambi cocking handle take it to your weapons techs and exchange it for an old one if possible, I ahve seen no less than 85 fail this year alone on simple gallery ranges and Gunfighter Shoots, they are junk.



I don't know how I missed this post.  Thanks.  Exactly the kind of info I was looking for.  I've always respected your's and other's opinion on not bothering with the cheap sh*t.  I'm really trying hard to justify to myself that KAC rails are THAT much better then some of the lesser ones.  They're a pretty straight forward piece of kit.

Also thanks to BM, I remember your VLTOR but I was also looking for other options as I heard VLTORs are in short supply in Canada.

And yes, sorry for the confusion.  Slide on butts only.  If people still see that as a problem.... god help ya!


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## MikeL (14 Oct 2009)

LMT SOPMOD would be another option, contact SOCOM Supply, they might have some instock still, or they can order you one.


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## KevinB (15 Oct 2009)

Aftermarket Stocks I would recommend.

 Magpul ACS
 Magpul CTR
 Magpol MOE
 LMT SOPMOD (which we build for LMT - LMT has the license from USNSWC-Crane)
 VLTOR EMOD
 VLTOR MOD


 Other than that, I don't feel the plastic used by some companies is designed for a live gun (specifically the ones MG34 mentioned)


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