# Mess Uniform use by Retired Members



## alegal2012 (18 Dec 2012)

I am a retired Reg Force member and would like to acquire and wear the Army mess uniform at my son's wedding next September.  Are there any regualtions prohibiting this?

Thank you in advance,

Alan Legal, WO ret'd
alan.legal@shaw.ca


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## Shamrock (18 Dec 2012)

> Current regulations regarding the wear of uniforms by retired personnel emanate from Queen’s Regulations and Orders (QR&O), in particular QR&O 17.06 which states: A former member of the Regular Force or Reserve Force, who was released for a reason other than misconduct, may wear a uniform:
> 
> (a)  with the permission of an officer commanding a command or his designated authority and such other officers as may be designated by the Chief of Defence Staff, when attending a military entertainment or ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate; and
> 
> ...



Source: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/faq/index-eng.asp?cat=dress&FaqID=116#ans-rep


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Dec 2012)

I have seen numerous instances where retired pers wear their Mess Kit to functions.
No one, so far, has seemed worried about it.

If bought new, they paid in excess of $1000 for the outfit. It belongs to them, not to the military. 

In reality, it's just a military cut tuxedo.

As long as they are not trying to imitate a serving member, who cares.


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## Popurhedoff (18 Dec 2012)

Every year at one of our functions, past members show up in thier mess kit, minus any rank.  I plan to do the same.

Cheers
Pop


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## George Wallace (18 Dec 2012)

Popurhedoff said:
			
		

> Every year at one of our functions, past members show up in thier mess kit, minus any rank.  I plan to do the same.
> 
> Cheers
> Pop



It still is a Chick Magnet.


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## Journeyman (18 Dec 2012)

Unsubstantiated opinion only.....

As noted, it _is_ a very sharp-looking and distinctive outfit.  Would wearing it detract from the attention on the bride (it's 'her day' after all) and your son?
As for the actual regulations.....   :dunno:


I'd never heard of retired members wearing it minus the rank.  Interesting variation.


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## Strike (18 Dec 2012)

alegal2012 said:
			
		

> I am a retired Reg Force member and would like to acquire and wear the Army mess uniform at my son's wedding next September.  Are there any regualtions prohibiting this?
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> 
> ...



Just and FYI.  Generally DEUs are worn for the ceremony and the mess kit for the reception.  At least, that has been the case for the many military weddings I've attended. I know some will wear mess kits to the ceremony but it's not the norm.  May have to do with not wanting to upstage the bride.


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## George Wallace (18 Dec 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> Just and FYI.  Generally DEUs are worn for the ceremony and the mess kit for the reception.  At least, that has been the case for the many military weddings I've attended. I know some will wear mess kits to the ceremony but it's not the norm.  May have to do with not wanting to upstage the bride.



Depends on the Mess Kit.  There are many instances of members wearing "Patrol Dress" ( which some units use as Mess Kit )  in the Wedding Party.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Dec 2012)

Mess Kit is, traditionally, worn only after 18:00.

There is a distinction between 'Mess Kit' and 'Patrol Dress', even if Patrols are the authorized dress for a dinner.


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## George Wallace (18 Dec 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Mess Kit is, traditionally, worn only after 18:00.
> 
> There is a distinction between 'Mess Kit' and 'Patrol Dress', even if Patrols are the authorized dress for a dinner.



( which some units use as Mess Kit )

Although I really don't think that is truly proper, but they seem to have adopted it as such.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Dec 2012)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ( which some units use as Mess Kit )



Being from a Unit that wears both, Patrols MAY be authorized for a dinner (they are not at our Unit). That does not make it 'Mess Kit'.

Mess Kit is formal wear and is defined by the Dress Regs.

Patrols are classed as 'Walking Out Dress'.

That is the distinction.


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## George Wallace (18 Dec 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Being from a Unit that wears both, Patrols MAY be authorized for a dinner (they are not at our Unit). That does not make it 'Mess Kit'.
> 
> Mess Kit is formal wear and is defined by the Dress Regs.
> 
> ...



I agree.


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## Shamrock (18 Dec 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Unsubstantiated opinion only.....
> 
> As noted, it _is_ a very sharp-looking and distinctive outfit.  Would wearing it detract from the attention on the bride (it's 'her day' after all) and your son?
> As for the actual regulations.....   :dunno:
> ...



Mess Dress is a tricky topic.  One one hand, it remains a uniform and its wearing with rank should remain authorized in accordance with regulations.  On the other hand, its donning without rank leaves its wearer susceptible to drink orders.

Notwithstanding, the retired member is no longer subject to dress regulations and there is little worry of mess dress misrepresenting his status.  It's just a fancy drinking suit.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Dec 2012)

I had a conversation not two weeks ago with a Navy type that had the same concern about wearing his Mess Uniform in retirement. His suggestion, which I like, was to have a gold embroidered letter 'R' on the appropriate backing sew on the sleeve just below the rank. That would denote to others, the member is retired at that rank.

The officers can figure their own system out ;D


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## Journeyman (18 Dec 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> .....have a gold embroidered letter 'R' on the appropriate backing sew on the sleeve....


Sure, that scarlet 'A' isn't shaming enough.....    ;D


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## Rheostatic (18 Dec 2012)

Worse still, when they assume "R" means Reserve...


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## Blackadder1916 (18 Dec 2012)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> Worse still, when they assume "R" means Reserve...



As was the case (from the 1950s until 2007) in the Royal Navy when officers of the RNR wore an "R" in the curl to designate their status.  The practise supposedly continues for "honouraries".


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Dec 2012)

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> Worse still, when they assume "R" means Reserve...



Well, as I are one now, it wouldn't matter would it?


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## daftandbarmy (18 Dec 2012)

alegal2012 said:
			
		

> I am a retired Reg Force member and would like to acquire and wear the Army mess uniform at my son's wedding next September.  Are there any regualtions prohibiting this?
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> 
> ...



Why not wear a tux? When you get into trouble in the bars afterwards you have a higher deniability factor than if you're in uniform!  ;D


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## jollyjacktar (18 Dec 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Why not wear a tux? When you get into trouble in the bars afterwards you have a higher deniability factor than if you're in uniform!  ;D



You could always claim you're with MI-6...


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## cupper (18 Dec 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> You could always claim you're with MI-6...



Just remember to order you martinus shaken, not stirred.


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## daftandbarmy (18 Dec 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> You could always claim you're with MI-6...



You can get away with alot in a Tux, especially if the outside walls of the building are easy to climb  ;D


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## Maxadia (19 Dec 2012)

Be polite, be respectful......

and have a plan to kill everyone in the room, Bond.  ;D


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## Shamrock (19 Dec 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Why not wear a tux? When you get into trouble in the bars afterwards you have a higher deniability factor than if you're in uniform!  ;D



That tux will look ridiculous with a big sequined R, though.


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