# Ottawa has ‘failed’ veterans as calls grow for minister to resign: advocates



## daftandbarmy (30 Oct 2022)

This looks like a pretty energetic campaign....


Ottawa has ‘failed’ veterans as calls grow for minister to resign: advocates​
Ongoing issues at Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC), including long waits for disability benefits, are sending the message that the federal government doesn’t care about veterans, advocates say — adding it’s time for the minister in charge to resign.





Speaking to Mercedes Stephenson on _The West Block_ Sunday, the advocates — along with former Conservative leader Erin O’Toole who served as veterans affairs minister under Stephen Harper — said they’ve heard from veterans who have grown increasingly disheartened.

“A lot of them have expressed that they don’t feel valued, they don’t feel important,” said Debbie Lowther, the co-founder and CEO of VETS Canada, a charity that helps veterans in crisis.

“These are men and women who put their lives on the line for our country, so I think we owe them a lot more than what we’re providing.”

Bruce Moncur, the founder of the Afghanistan Veterans Association, was even more blunt.

“The current government has failed to understand the problems or even frankly care, and the ‘triple-D policy’ — delay, deny, die — is alive and well,” he said.

An update from the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman released on Tuesday found veterans are waiting an average of 43 weeks for disability claim decisions, far above the 16-week standard set by VAC.

The Trudeau government has repeatedly promised to meet that standard and reduce the backlog in files for case managers, who veterans and advocates say are overwhelmed.

The union representing those case managers and hundreds of other VAC employees is now calling for Veterans Affairs Minister Lawrence MacAulay to resign or be fired, accusing him of repeatedly refusing to meet with members to discuss their concerns.









						Ottawa has ‘failed’ veterans as calls grow for minister to resign: advocates - National | Globalnews.ca
					

Long wait times for VAC benefits and controversy surrounding an offer of medical assistance in dying to a veteran is leading to growing calls for the minister in charge to resign.




					globalnews.ca


----------



## Fishbone Jones (30 Oct 2022)

"The Trudeau government has repeatedly promised to meet that standard and reduce the backlog"

Trudeau promised.🤣 Really, what does that mean?🤔 He hasn't  told the truth in his whole miserable existence, let alone since 2015. He hasn't truly answered a single query in Question Period since he took over. The whole caucus is hyperbolic, obtuse and deceiving and follows his example. All answers are scripted by Butts and Telford and the red liberals read from those same scripts. If it gets too hot, they create a new crisis to draw attention away from the current kerfuffle.The orange liberals are just a hot mess of contrived socialism, sucking the red liberal teet.


----------



## brihard (30 Oct 2022)

There hasn’t been a party or government that’s taken Veterans Affairs seriously in decades. O’Toole was a good choice for minister (the best in many years IMHO), but he was hamstrung by a government unwilling to properly fund the portfolio. Veterans have been and will remain an afterthought. Predictably, every year, a couple weeks before Remembrance Day, we’ll see the opposition / advocates get a brief bit of airtime, but that’ll be it.


----------



## Navy_Pete (30 Oct 2022)

Can confirm, the 3Ds were well in place in the Harper government as well. Standard expectation was the first claim would be denied regardless of merit. (Why yes, I showed up with a blown knee and got through basic then 9 weeks of CAP, you've got me!)


----------



## Jarnhamar (30 Oct 2022)

Maybe every CAF member should go on sick leave until Trudeau feels like doing something about VAC.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (31 Oct 2022)




----------



## Halifax Tar (31 Oct 2022)

brihard said:


> There hasn’t been a party or government that’s taken Veterans Affairs seriously in decades. O’Toole was a good choice for minister (the best in many years IMHO), but he was hamstrung by a government unwilling to properly fund the portfolio. Veterans have been and will remain an afterthought. Predictably, every year, a couple weeks before Remembrance Day, we’ll see the opposition / advocates get a brief bit of airtime, but that’ll be it.





Navy_Pete said:


> Can confirm, the 3Ds were well in place in the Harper government as well. Standard expectation was the first claim would be denied regardless of merit. (Why yes, I showed up with a blown knee and got through basic then 9 weeks of CAP, you've got me!)



Harper last stood as PM in 2015.  Perhaps its time to focus on who has been in power since then, eh ?


----------



## brihard (31 Oct 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Harper last stood as PM in 2015.  Perhaps its time to focus on who has been in power since then, eh ?


It was very clear I was talking about both/all parties. Try again.


----------



## Halifax Tar (31 Oct 2022)

brihard said:


> It was very clear I was talking about both/all parties. Try again.



No thanks.  I'm happy with what I said.


----------



## Navy_Pete (31 Oct 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Harper last stood as PM in 2015.  Perhaps its time to focus on who has been in power since then, eh ?


Why? It's clearly a systematic issue that neither party has addressed, and not going to be fixed by pretending it's specific to the current government changing.

The LPC is at fault for not fixing it, the Harper CPC is at fault for not fixing it, and probably goes back down the chain through a few different LPC/CPC governments.

Changing parties won't do it if no one burns VAC down and starts again.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (31 Oct 2022)

One of the things that needs to happen is with the Legion. They no longer represent the Veteran. Yet, government listens to their decisions and input. It was the Legion that recommended that Vets stay on their myriad of pills and medications and not to give us cannabis. It wasn't a decision to help Vets, they forecasted their loss of booze revenue from us sitting and getting drunk. Yet cannabis has allowed thousands of Vets to get off their psyco meds and mood altering drugs. Too bad for big pharma. They placed the well being of Veterans far behind their thirst for alcohol profits. The Legion is mostly civvies now. They should have zero determinations or standing in government relating to Veterans. The Poppy Fund that was designed and implemented strictly to assist hard luck Veterans is now used for ball shirts for teams and any other social outreach that will bring them outside business. Vets be damned. This is not a knock against individual branches. It is about the civilian executive that runs the RCL and has absconded with our property and legacy, while using dues and donations to take their wives and cronies on international junkets and visits. These are the ones that feed Ottawa the bullshit about Veterans. And Veterans Affairs take their advise seriously and without question. They need to be gone from working groups or anything to do with VA.


----------



## Jarnhamar (31 Oct 2022)

Fishbone Jones said:


> View attachment 74564



They forgot "Have you considered killing yourself?"


----------



## daftandbarmy (31 Oct 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> They forgot "Have you considered killing yourself?"



Or 'you're not crazy enough....'


Mental health access for families of veterans still lacking, says new ombudsman​Federal government tightened the rules after being embarrassed by the Christopher Garnier case​Veterans Affairs Canada hasn't gone far enough in reversing restrictions on mental health counselling for the families of former soldiers, sailors and aircrew, the county's new veterans ombudsman says in a hard-hitting report.

The federal government imposed constraints on access to mental health counselling for families of veterans almost a year ago. The policy shift was a response to a political embarrassment — the case of convicted killer Christopher Garnier, a son of a veteran who obtained taxpayer-funded post traumatic stress treatment.

While Veterans Affairs never formally amended the family care policy, it began using a much stricter interpretation of it — which had a direct impact on some veterans' families.

"There was also a lack of transparency with respect to how these significant changes in interpretation were implemented," Nishika Jardine, a retired colonel, wrote in her report released today, her first since being appointed veterans ombudsman last fall.

"The lack of clear communication caused confusion and frustration among some veterans and their families, especially since some family members only found out about the changes during their mental health appointments."



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-mental-health-nishika-jardine-1.5879237


----------



## Navy_Pete (31 Oct 2022)

Wait, VAC changed the coverage policy, based on a single high profile event that will likely never happen again, to the detriment of 100,000s of people?





/s


----------



## Fishbone Jones (31 Oct 2022)

Navy_Pete said:


> Wait, VAC changed the coverage policy, based on a single high profile event that will likely never happen again, to the detriment of 100,000s of people?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And there you are. Stupidity, ignorance and social engineering on a galactic scale. The red and orange liberals should be proud. Now they can take the money they save and give it to another third world despot with no paperwork or scrutiny.


----------



## daftandbarmy (31 Oct 2022)

Navy_Pete said:


> Wait, VAC changed the coverage policy, based on a single high profile event that will likely never happen again, to the detriment of 100,000s of people?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Of course.


You know how group punishment works, right?


----------



## OldSolduer (1 Nov 2022)

Fishbone Jones said:


> And there you are. Stupidity, ignorance and social engineering on a galactic scale. The red and orange liberals should be proud. Now they can take the money they save and give it to another third world despot with no paperwork or scrutiny.


Just to add I think they'd have done the same under a Conservative government given the propensity for Canadians to ban things that only affect about .01% of the population.


----------



## brihard (1 Nov 2022)

I remember us discussing this one about four years ago.



brihard said:


> From the start there has been a lot of critical thinking _not_ happening on this subject. I'll say right off the hop that the notion of this guy - a cop killer - getting VAC services for his mental health profoundly disgusts me on a personal level for obvious reasons.
> 
> But...
> 
> ...


----------



## Quirky (1 Nov 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> so I think we owe them a lot more than what we’re providing.



Can someone give some examples? I'm pretty familiar with medical releases and the vast amount of benefits that go along with them, or is this on the VAC monetary side?


----------



## daftandbarmy (5 Nov 2022)

And now there's a petition....

No Soldier Euthanasia​Canadian soldiers serve their country and accept unlimited liability. This means they can be ordered into harm’s way, including loss of life. Soldiers can suffer moral injury, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and physical injury as a consequence of being ordered into combat.

Canada owes a duty of care to those soldiers who have been injured physically or mentally as a consequence of being ordered into harm’s way. This duty of care extends to appropriate care and treatment for PTSD.

A recent and alarming news story by Mercedes Stephenson and Sean Boynton detailed a Canadian veteran being offered medically-assisted suicide as a “treatment” option for his PTSD by a Veterans Affairs service agent. The offer was unprompted and unsought by the veteran.

The story reports that, “Sources close to the veteran say he and his family were disgusted by the conversation, and feel betrayed by the agency mandated to assist veterans. The sources said the veteran was seeking services to recover from injuries suffered in the line of duty, and had been experiencing positive improvements in his mental and physical health. They say the unprompted offer of MAID [that is, euthanasia] disrupted his progress and has been harmful to the veteran’s progress and his family’s wellbeing.”

We are calling on the Minister of Veterans Affairs Lawrence MacAulay to enact a simple safeguard. *Sign our petition *calling on the Minister to ensure by regulation that conversations with VAC service agents about medically-assisted suicide may only be patient initiated.









						No Soldier Euthanasia
					

A Cdn veteran was offered medically-assisted suicide as a “treatment” option for PTSD. The offer was unprompted and unsought by the veteran.




					www.physiciansforlife.ca


----------



## brihard (5 Nov 2022)

daftandbarmy said:


> And now there's a petition....
> 
> No Soldier Euthanasia​Canadian soldiers serve their country and accept unlimited liability. This means they can be ordered into harm’s way, including loss of life. Soldiers can suffer moral injury, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and physical injury as a consequence of being ordered into combat.
> 
> ...


I’m not gonna touch anything by ‘physicians for life’; they’re an anti-MAID group and I won’t drive support their way or boost the numbers they can claim, however in this specific case what they propose is sound. I’m pretty confident VAC will institute something like that anyway even absent that petition. This is an utter no-brainer for a department level “don’t do that” policy.


----------



## Booter (5 Nov 2022)

I’m a never say never-never say always type. I don’t believe any medical services should be off the table from VAC. I was personally disgusted by this story and series of factors, but I don’t think creating a new rule and excluding a service is the right move either. Bringing it up in flippant conversation with some muppet from the VAC pitching ideas most certainly isn’t the right move.


----------



## GK .Dundas (5 Nov 2022)

It must be close to  Remembrance Day looks like both the Government and the His Majesty's Loyal Opposition have rediscovered veterans.


----------



## Furniture (5 Nov 2022)

Booter said:


> I’m a never say never-never say always type. I don’t believe any medical services should be off the table from VAC. I was personally disgusted by this story and series of factors, but I don’t think creating a new rule and excluding a service is the right move either. Bringing it up in flippant conversation with some muppet from the VAC pitching ideas most certainly isn’t the right move.


I think most people just want VAC to not bring it up, unless it is first brought up by the veteran. I'm not sure anyone is asking that it not be allowed at all, or that VAC shuts people down when they talk about it first.


----------



## Booter (5 Nov 2022)

Furniture said:


> I think most people just want VAC to not bring it up, unless it is first brought up by the veteran. I'm not sure anyone is asking that it not be allowed at all, or that VAC shuts people down when they talk about it first.


Reread the story. You’re right and I’m stupid.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (5 Nov 2022)

In a perfect world for governments and insurance companies, you work hard all your life paying taxes. Collect a pension for about 7 years, spending most of it locally and then dying suddenly. I could so see some OCD pen pusher pulling up a pie chart showing that if they got 2% more people to elect for a early death, they could save X amount of dollars. At which point the managers hopefully say "Thank you and now back to the basement with you".


----------



## Kat Stevens (6 Nov 2022)

There's a world of difference between;
 a) "You're right, your life totally sucks, I'd want to end it if I were you", and 
b) "I'm tired of being in constant pain and just want it to end it in a dignified way". 

My mum chose b), if any of us would have suggested a) there would have been some major unpleasantry from me.


----------



## OldSolduer (7 Nov 2022)

Colin Parkinson said:


> In a perfect world for governments and insurance companies, you work hard all your life paying taxes. Collect a pension for about 7 years, spending most of it locally and then dying suddenly. I could so see some OCD pen pusher pulling up a pie chart showing that if they got 2% more people to elect for a early death, they could save X amount of dollars. At which point the managers hopefully say "Thank you and now back to the basement with you off with your head".


FTFY

I take a very dim view of people like that, fortunately there are not many.


----------



## PPCLI Guy (7 Nov 2022)

Navy_Pete said:


> Why? It's clearly a systematic issue that neither party has addressed, and not going to be fixed by pretending it's specific to the current government changing.
> 
> The LPC is at fault for not fixing it, the Harper CPC is at fault for not fixing it, and probably goes back down the chain through a few different LPC/CPC governments.
> 
> Changing parties won't do it if no one burns VAC down and starts again.


It is not the parties that don't care.  It is the voters.  The people of Canada.  If it was important to them, it would be important to the pols....  Same goes for equipment, readiness, etc


----------



## Furniture (7 Nov 2022)

PPCLI Guy said:


> It is not the parties that don't care.  It is the voters.  The people of Canada.  If it was important to them, it would be important to the pols....  Same goes for equipment, readiness, etc


Except this week, everybody loves veterans this week.


----------



## Kat Stevens (7 Nov 2022)

Furniture said:


> Except this week, everybody loves veterans this week.


Except Peter Mansbridge... snide prick.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (7 Nov 2022)

Kat Stevens said:


> Except Peter Mansbridge... snide prick.


Peter actually served.

RCN, in the late 1960s.


----------



## brihard (7 Nov 2022)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Peter actually served.
> 
> RCN, in the late 1960s.


Huh. Apparently his dad was a Lancaster navigator (and got a DFC for his troubles) and his grandfather was PPCLI including at Vimy. Peter Mansbridge’s own service was super short.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (8 Nov 2022)

brihard said:


> Huh. Apparently his dad was a Lancaster navigator (and got a DFC for his troubles) and his grandfather was PPCLI including at Vimy. Peter Mansbridge’s own service was super short.


It wasn’t long, but unlike most journalists, he did try it out. Props to him for that.


----------



## Kat Stevens (8 Nov 2022)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Peter actually served.
> 
> RCN, in the late 1960s.


Huh, I did not know that, thank you. It must have left a sour taste in his mouth, the delight he took in taking a shit on us every chance he could.


----------



## Halifax Tar (8 Nov 2022)

Kat Stevens said:


> Except Peter Mansbridge... snide prick.



Context ?  What did I miss ?


----------



## Jarnhamar (8 Nov 2022)

Furniture said:


> Except this week, everybody loves veterans this week.


Not that poppies are a singular sign of veteran support but I'd say less than 1% of the people in west Ottawa had poppies on this week when I visited.


----------



## Kat Stevens (8 Nov 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Context ?  What did I miss ?


See above.


----------



## dapaterson (8 Nov 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> Not that poppies are a singular sign of veteran support but I'd say less than 1% of the people in west Ottawa had poppies on this week when I visited.


Mine is usually on my coat, and weather of late has left my coat hanging on a hook by my front door.


----------



## brihard (8 Nov 2022)

dapaterson said:


> Mine is usually on my coat, and weather of late has left my coat hanging on a hook by my front door.


Happened to me too. I threw one on a hat; I almost never wear a hat, even though I of all people should.


----------



## Furniture (8 Nov 2022)

Jarnhamar said:


> Not that poppies are a singular sign of veteran support but I'd say less than 1% of the people in west Ottawa had poppies on this week when I visited.


I have noticed a lack of poppies in Ottawa this year, I've also seen far less people/places distributing them as well.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (8 Nov 2022)

Result of the Legions struggling with lack of volunteers. My Cadet corp did a day for each legion here on the Northshore, the young kids are very successful at twisting adults arms. One of the legion was organized enough to have a Tap machine and it was fun watching the kids hook the "I don't have cash on me crowd" forcing them to cough up. To be fair everyone is in "rebuilding" mode after Covid. We had to tell the Scouts and Guides we won't be offering free coco or hot dogs to them after the parade as we don't have enough volunteers to make that much and do the cleanup. I find that people now are to busy working to stay afloat to volunteer as much as they would like.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (8 Nov 2022)

brihard said:


> Huh. Apparently his dad was a Lancaster navigator (and got a DFC for his troubles) and his grandfather was PPCLI including at Vimy. Peter Mansbridge’s own service was super short.











						Peter Mansbridge Discusses His New Memoir, ‘Off the Record’
					

In his long-awaited memoir, journalism icon Peter Mansbridge tells behind-the-scenes stories from five decades in the news business




					www.everythingzoomer.com
				





> When he dropped out of Glebe Collegiate in Ottawa, Mansbridge joined the navy because he liked the uniforms; he dreamed of being a pilot and they had planes. Less than a year later, he took an honourable discharge after they pulled him from flight training and said he had to go to sea.  . . .


----------



## Navy_Pete (8 Nov 2022)

Furniture said:


> I have noticed a lack of poppies in Ottawa this year, I've also seen far less people/places distributing them as well.


To be fair, we're getting crazy warm weather, where normally you would just put a poppy on your jacket. I've gotten 4 recently, but not going to pin one onto a tshirt when I talk it off.

My daughter tried to volunteer in her cadet corps to help sell them and the legion (literally across the street) never got back to them. They are at every local grocery store as a stand alone, so easy to find, but I've only see one lone air cadet actually selling them (and bought yet another one just because).

And I hate the Legion.


----------



## lenaitch (8 Nov 2022)

Furniture said:


> I have noticed a lack of poppies in Ottawa this year, I've also seen far less people/places distributing them as well.


Lots of folks wearing around here and lots of places to purchase.


----------



## dimsum (8 Nov 2022)

Furniture said:


> I have noticed a lack of poppies in Ottawa this year, I've also seen far less people/places distributing them as well.


Agreed.  Most places where I did see boxes (there weren't many places), they were empty.


----------



## Maxman1 (12 Nov 2022)

Fishbone Jones said:


> View attachment 74564



Needs an update. "Have you considered assisted suicide?"


----------



## ueo (13 Nov 2022)

Maxman1 said:


> Needs an update. "Have you considered assisted suicide?"


Shallow!!!!


----------



## daftandbarmy (13 Nov 2022)

But they've dropped the wait times from 'never' to 'almost never' 









						Frustration, anxiety persist as Liberals claim success on wait times for veterans - Oak Bay News
					

An estimated 23,000 veterans are waiting for their disability claims to be processed by the federal department




					www.oakbaynews.com


----------

