# P.RE Trudeau‘s War Service



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Wyn van der Schee <vandersw@cadvision.com>* on *Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:32:12 -0600*
I have in my files a page from the war diary of C Troop, 105th Coast
Battery RCA stationed at Fort Peninsula, Gaspe, Quebec,  dated 10 August
1943:
"At about 1945 hrs two civilians, students from Montreal as they were
identified, were apprehended by our guards as suspicious persons because
they were travelling by foot. After identification it was found they were
respectively Pierre Elliott Trudeau - 84 McCulloch Montreal, and Jean
Gelinas from Outremont - Montreal. They were dressed and equipped in scouit
like fashion. They were released and continued their tour of the Gaspe
Coast."
It doesn‘t seem that our PET was doing any military training during his
summer vacations while attending university.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sat, 03 Jun 2000 22:59:17 -0600*
Doubtless you will/should correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that
at least in the POST WW2 era COTC summer trg was only three months long,
ending at the end of July. During WW2??? Also, you should be able to
confirm for us that COTC was compulsory during the last half of WW2,
provided one was physically fit. Compulsory to the same extent that
service in the Reserve 2nd battalions of most infantry regiments for
example Army was compulsory if fit, over 18 to 45?? and in an
exempted from conscription occupation railway steam engineer for
example or classification.
I made the mistake of voting for him, once, in 1968 and I‘ve been sorry
ever since. I just hope that someday my children will be able to forgive
me.
Wyn van der Schee wrote:
> 
> I have in my files a page from the war diary of C Troop, 105th Coast
> Battery RCA stationed at Fort Peninsula, Gaspe, Quebec,  dated 10 August
> 1943:
> "At about 1945 hrs two civilians, students from Montreal as they were
> identified, were apprehended by our guards as suspicious persons because
> they were travelling by foot. After identification it was found they were
> respectively Pierre Elliott Trudeau - 84 McCulloch Montreal, and Jean
> Gelinas from Outremont - Montreal. They were dressed and equipped in scouit
> like fashion. They were released and continued their tour of the Gaspe
> Coast."
> It doesn‘t seem that our PET was doing any military training during his
> summer vacations while attending university.
> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Mon, 05 Jun 2000 21:17:43  0000*
--------------2C978DE8C2CE675C3B944CC3
Here is some text from the book "Trudeau and Our Times. Volume 1: The Magnificent
Obsession." Written by Stephen Clarkson  Christina McCall in 1990.
"...he could not escape getting personally involved in the intense racial
conflicts over military service that were obsessing French-speaking Quebeckers,
most of whom saw the war as another British conflict that was none of their
affair. Rather then bow to his English side and enlist, Pierre did the bare legal
minimum by enrolling in the Canadian Officers Training Corps at the university, a
ploy many middle-class Canadians used to avoid combat overseas.
"At a COTC summer training camp, he staged a scene that expressed his ambivalent
attitude towards war, authority, and his racial duality. Charles Lussier, a
fellow cadet who was Trudeau‘s comtemporary at law school and later a
distinguished public servent remembered ‘One day a cadet captain marched us over
to a depot where we were to move some shells. The officer in charge was English
and gave instructions entirerly in that language, and even though all eight of us
were French-Canadians.... we just naturally obeyed. Well, seven of us did. Not
Pierre. He didn‘t budge. When the cadet captain asked what was wrong he responded
in his flawless French, ‘I didn‘t understand a word he said.‘ The cadet captain
explained this to the officer and the later repeated the order in faltering
French. Pierre stood by quietly while the officer stumbled through the
instructions and then said in his impeccable English, ‘Good, now I understand
you. Remeber that here in Canada we are entitled to be commanded in two
languages.‘" Only then did Trudea go to work leaving his confrees both pround and
nervous. ‘After all‘ Lussier summed up, ‘the country was at war and we were
soldiers in a military camp, and there he was, defying the orders of an officer
in the defense of language rights!‘"
"Arguements for and against the participation in the war raged throughout it‘s
duration in Quebec. Camillien Houde, the mayor of Montreal whose campaigns
Charlie Trudeau Pierre‘s father had supported financially, was incarcerated for
urging his compatriots not to register for enlistment. Two years later, when
Mackenzie King held his famous referendum on conscription, English Canada voted
overwhelmingly for it and French Canada voted overwhelmingly against. an outcome
that furthur exacerbated racial tensions. Trudeau himself espoused the
anti-conscrption cause, attending marches and meetings, publically aligning
himself with his generation of French-Canadians."
Trudeau went on and backed the campaign of Jean Drapeau, a young
anti-conscription candidate who fought a by-election against a soldier,
Major-General Leo LaFleche who was put forth by the Liberals. Ina speech made in
support of Drapeau he remarked
"There is currently a government who wants to invoke conscription and a people
who will never accpet it... If we are not a democracy, we should start a
revolution without delay... They are asking our people to commit suicide.
Citizens of Quebec, don‘t stand around blubbering. Long live the flag of
liberty!"
In short, the guy was not enthusiastic about fighting for his country. He took
the easy way out. All part of his arrogant, sumg, socialist, anti-British
attitude. His language was quite nationalistic is his younger days. He had very
little interest in the military. Too pacifist, mabye that‘s why he didn‘t enlist.
He had always hated explaining that people people and would usually comment when
pressed about it that, "I scarcely paid attention to the news." He was even
kicked out of the COTC, but I can‘t remember why.
He is truely one political leader that I really loathe.
--------------2C978DE8C2CE675C3B944CC3
Here is some text from the book "Trudeau and Our Times. Volume 1: The Magnificent
Obsession." Written by Stephen Clarkson amp Christina McCall in 1990.
"...he could not escape getting personally
involved in the intense racial conflicts over military service that were
obsessing French-speaking Quebeckers, most of whom saw the war as another
British conflict that was none of their affair. Rather then bow to his
English side and enlist, Pierre did the bare legal minimum by enrolling
in the Canadian Officers Training Corps at the university, a ploy many
middle-class Canadians used to avoid combat overseas.
"At a COTC summer training camp, he staged
a scene that expressed his ambivalent attitude towards war, authority,
and his racial duality. Charles Lussier, a fellow cadet who was Trudeau‘s
comtemporary at law school and later a distinguished public servent remembered
‘One day a cadet captain marched us over to a depot where we were to move
some shells. The officer in charge was English and gave instructions entirerly
in that language, and even though all eight of us were French-Canadians....
we just naturally obeyed. Well, seven of us did. Not Pierre. He didn‘t
budge. When the cadet captain asked what was wrong he responded in his
flawless French, ‘I didn‘t understand a word he said.‘ The cadet captain
explained this to the officer and the later repeated the order in faltering
French. Pierre stood by quietly while the officer stumbled through the
instructions and then said in his impeccable English, ‘Good, now I understand
you. Remeber that here in Canada we are entitled to be commanded in two
languages.‘" Only then did Trudea go to work leaving his confrees both
pround and nervous. ‘After all‘ Lussier summed up, ‘the country was at
war and we were soldiers in a military camp, and there he was, defying
the orders of an officer in the defense of language rights!‘"
"Arguements for and against the participation
in the war raged throughout it‘s duration in Quebec. Camillien Houde, the
mayor of Montreal whose campaigns Charlie Trudeau Pierre‘s father had
supported financially, was incarcerated for urging his compatriots not
to register for enlistment. Two years later, when Mackenzie King held his
famous referendum on conscription, English Canada voted overwhelmingly
for it and French Canada voted overwhelmingly against. an outcome that
furthur exacerbated racial tensions. Trudeau himself espoused the anti-conscrption
cause, attending marches and meetings, publically aligning himself with
his generation of French-Canadians."
Trudeau went on and backed the campaign of Jean Drapeau, a young anti-conscription
candidate who fought a by-election against a soldier, Major-General Leo
LaFleche who was put forth by the Liberals. Ina speech made in support
of Drapeau he remarked
"There is currently a government who wants
to invoke conscription and a people who will never accpet it... If we are
not a democracy, we should start a revolution without delay... They are
asking our people to commit suicide. Citizens of Quebec, don‘t stand around
blubbering. Long live the flag of liberty!"
In short, the guy was not enthusiastic about fighting
for his country. He took the easy way out. All part of his arrogant, sumg,
socialist, anti-British attitude. His language was quite nationalistic
is his younger days. He had very little interest in the military. Too pacifist,
mabye that‘s why he didn‘t enlist. He had always hated explaining that
people people and would usually comment when pressed about it that, "I
scarcely paid attention to the news."
He was even kicked out of the COTC, but I can‘t remember why.
He is truely one political leader that I really
loathe.
--------------2C978DE8C2CE675C3B944CC3--
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:04:45 -0700*
>In short, the guy was not enthusiastic about fighting for his country.
Sorry to break the news to you, but Canada‘s military contribution would have
been a lot smaller if not for the pro-British elements in our society, at least
for the first few years of the war.  A view of the war as a "British" one is
correct from some points of view.  It didn‘t help that a few expatriate Brits in
the military tried to make commitments to Britain on Canada‘s behalf for which
they had no authority.
>He took the easy way out.
Going against the beliefs and will of the majority is never easy.
>All part of his arrogant, sumg, socialist, anti-British attitude.
Exchange "capitalist" for "socialist", and "pro-US" for "anti-British", and you
could be talking about Mulroney.
Exchange "anti-demonstrator" for "anti-British" and you could be talking about
Chretien.
>His language was quite nationalistic is his younger days.
In his later days, he was equally nationalistic - Canadian.  That much can also
be said for Chretien maybe some of it rubbed off.
>He had very little interest in the military. Too pacifist, mabye that‘s why he
didn‘t enlist.
How many of our political leaders, national and provincial, have served in our
military?
>He is truely one political leader that I really loathe.
He‘s one I admire.  Willingness to bear arms isn‘t the only mark of a good
citizen.  I don‘t think there was ever uncertainty about where he stood on an
issue, and he has more backbone than anyone since, and many before him.
Brad Sallows
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Rhett <lawson@cclacbrome.qc.ca>* on *Tue, 06 Jun 2000 20:12:30 -0400*
As usual Brad you have spoken for a significant group of us.  I agree, God Speed.
Rhett Lawson
Bradley Sallows wrote:
> >In short, the guy was not enthusiastic about fighting for his country.
>
> Sorry to break the news to you, but Canada‘s military contribution would have
> been a lot smaller if not for the pro-British elements in our society, at least
> for the first few years of the war.  A view of the war as a "British" one is
> correct from some points of view.  It didn‘t help that a few expatriate Brits in
> the military tried to make commitments to Britain on Canada‘s behalf for which
> they had no authority.
>
> >He took the easy way out.
>
> Going against the beliefs and will of the majority is never easy.
>
> >All part of his arrogant, sumg, socialist, anti-British attitude.
>
> Exchange "capitalist" for "socialist", and "pro-US" for "anti-British", and you
> could be talking about Mulroney.
>
> Exchange "anti-demonstrator" for "anti-British" and you could be talking about
> Chretien.
>
> >His language was quite nationalistic is his younger days.
>
> In his later days, he was equally nationalistic - Canadian.  That much can also
> be said for Chretien maybe some of it rubbed off.
>
> >He had very little interest in the military. Too pacifist, mabye that‘s why he
> didn‘t enlist.
>
> How many of our political leaders, national and provincial, have served in our
> military?
>
> >He is truely one political leader that I really loathe.
>
> He‘s one I admire.  Willingness to bear arms isn‘t the only mark of a good
> citizen.  I don‘t think there was ever uncertainty about where he stood on an
> issue, and he has more backbone than anyone since, and many before him.
>
> Brad Sallows
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:16:15  0000*
--------------59D3FAD945129C749564CC71
WW2 was not quite like WW1. We didn‘t automatically go to war once Britian did. We
were a bit more of our "own country" before WW2 then we were before WW1. It must be
remembered that the majority of people in Canada were and still are of British
decent more then any other "ethnic" group. It‘s about 40 of the population now and
in the late 1930‘s it was even higher. English Canada is and was that majority that
voted in parliament to go to war. Quebec may not have liked it but they were still
part of Canada and were also at war defending not only Britian but France and the
rest of Europe and part of Asia. There was no tiny majority that imposed their
commetment to Britian upon the general population. English Canada was generally
enthusiastic to go, while the French was not quite in the same mood. In 1942 on
King‘s conscription plebiscite Anglo‘s voted for conscription while Franco‘s voted
against. The majoprity of Canadian‘s, Anglo‘s were egar to fight while the minority
of Canadian‘s, Franco‘s were not.
"Going against the beliefs and will of the majority is never easy."
Certainly not. But remember that Pierre was in Quebec, surrounded by his fellow
anti-conscription, anti-war friends. I think that he would have had a much harder go
of it on Juno Beach then jeting across Quebec on his motorcycle.
"In his later years he was equally nationalistic-Canadian."
True. That part of his youth during WW2 seems to be one that he would best like to
forget. Many writers go as far to describe him as a bully.
"How many political leaders national and provincial have served in our military?"
Not many. Canada has not been in a serious state of war since the 1940‘s. Yet just
looking at Canadian Prime Minister that were old enough to serve in both World Wars
many did. Out of the three Prime Ministers‘ who were fit for service in either world
war two served. Both in WW2. John Diefenbaker and Lester Pearson. The other was
Pierre Trudeau. None of our current Members of Parliament list "military" as their
privious occupation. But politicians aren‘t known for their bravery and are not
generally admired too much by the public either.
Trudeau was the worst prime minister Canada has ever had. His economic and social
policies were totally wrong in my view. His personality was arrogant and certainly
left something to be desired. He was not the great intellectual many people think he
was. Mila Mulroney once remarked "How that short pocked-marked little man could
ever be considered a sex symbol is beyond me." The only decent think he tried to
accomplish in office was that he attempted to get rid of the Indian Act and even
then he backed down on that.
I find it a bit odd that someone who like P.E.T. so much would be in a military
news-letter like this one. Considering what he did to the Forces.
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bradley Sallows wrote:
> >In short, the guy was not enthusiastic about fighting for his country.
>
> Sorry to break the news to you, but Canada‘s military contribution would have
> been a lot smaller if not for the pro-British elements in our society, at least
> for the first few years of the war.  A view of the war as a "British" one is
> correct from some points of view.  It didn‘t help that a few expatriate Brits in
> the military tried to make commitments to Britain on Canada‘s behalf for which
> they had no authority.
>
> >He took the easy way out.
>
> Going against the beliefs and will of the majority is never easy.
>
> >All part of his arrogant, sumg, socialist, anti-British attitude.
>
> Exchange "capitalist" for "socialist", and "pro-US" for "anti-British", and you
> could be talking about Mulroney.
>
> Exchange "anti-demonstrator" for "anti-British" and you could be talking about
> Chretien.
>
> >His language was quite nationalistic is his younger days.
>
> In his later days, he was equally nationalistic - Canadian.  That much can also
> be said for Chretien maybe some of it rubbed off.
>
> >He had very little interest in the military. Too pacifist, mabye that‘s why he
> didn‘t enlist.
>
> How many of our political leaders, national and provincial, have served in our
> military?
>
> >He is truely one political leader that I really loathe.
>
> He‘s one I admire.  Willingness to bear arms isn‘t the only mark of a good
> citizen.  I don‘t think there was ever uncertainty about where he stood on an
> issue, and he has more backbone than anyone since, and many before him.
>
> Brad Sallows
--------------59D3FAD945129C749564CC71
WW2 was not quite like WW1. We didn‘t automatically go to war once Britian
did. We were a bit more of our "own country" before WW2 then we were before
WW1. It must be remembered that the majority of people in Canada were and
still are of British decent more then any other "ethnic" group. It‘s about
40 of the population now and in the late 1930‘s it was even higher. English
Canada is and was that majority that voted in parliament to go to war.
Quebec may not have liked it but they were still part of Canada and were
also at war defending not only Britian but France and the rest of Europe
and part of Asia. There was no tiny majority that imposed their commetment
to Britian upon the general population. English Canada was generally enthusiastic
to go, while the French was not quite in the same mood. In 1942 on King‘s
conscription plebiscite Anglo‘s voted for conscription while Franco‘s voted
against. The majoprity of Canadian‘s, Anglo‘s were egar to fight while
the minority of Canadian‘s, Franco‘s were not.
"Going against the beliefs and will of the majority is never easy."
Certainly not. But remember that Pierre was in Quebec, surrounded by
his fellow anti-conscription, anti-war friends. I think that he would have
had a much harder go of it on Juno Beach then jeting across Quebec on his
motorcycle.
"In his later years he was equally nationalistic-Canadian."
True. That part of his youth during WW2 seems to be one that he would
best like to forget. Many writers go as far to describe him as a bully.
"How many political leaders national and provincial have served in
our military?"
Not many. Canada has not been in a serious state of war since the 1940‘s.
Yet just looking at Canadian Prime Minister that were old enough to serve
in both World Wars many did. Out of the three Prime Ministers‘ who were
fit for service in either world war two served. Both in WW2. John Diefenbaker
and Lester Pearson. The other was Pierre Trudeau. None of our current Members
of Parliament list "military" as their privious occupation. But politicians
aren‘t known for their bravery and are not generally admired too much by
the public either.
Trudeau was the worst prime minister Canada has ever had. His economic
and social policies were totally wrong in my view. His personality was
arrogant and certainly left something to be desired. He was not the great
intellectual many people think he was. Mila Mulroney once remarked "How
that short pocked-marked little man could ever be considered a sex symbol
is beyond me." The only decent think he tried to accomplish in office
was that he attempted to get rid of the Indian Act and even then he backed
down on that.
I find it a bit odd that someone who like P.E.T. so much would be in
a military news-letter like this one. Considering what he did to the Forces.
Bradley Sallows wrote:
>In short, the guy was not enthusiastic about fighting
for his country.
Sorry to break the news to you, but Canada‘s military contribution would
have
been a lot smaller if not for the pro-British elements in our society,
at least
for the first few years of the war. A view of the war as a "British"
one is
correct from some points of view. It didn‘t help that a few expatriate
Brits in
the military tried to make commitments to Britain on Canada‘s behalf
for which
they had no authority.
>He took the easy way out.
Going against the beliefs and will of the majority is never easy.
>All part of his arrogant, sumg, socialist, anti-British attitude.
Exchange "capitalist" for "socialist", and "pro-US" for "anti-British",
and you
could be talking about Mulroney.
Exchange "anti-demonstrator" for "anti-British" and you could be talking
about
Chretien.
>His language was quite nationalistic is his younger days.
In his later days, he was equally nationalistic - Canadian. That
much can also
be said for Chretien maybe some of it rubbed off.
>He had very little interest in the military. Too pacifist, mabye that‘s
why he
didn‘t enlist.
How many of our political leaders, national and provincial, have served
in our
military?
>He is truely one political leader that I really loathe.
He‘s one I admire. Willingness to bear arms isn‘t the only mark
of a good
citizen. I don‘t think there was ever uncertainty about where
he stood on an
issue, and he has more backbone than anyone since, and many before
him.
Brad Sallows
--------------59D3FAD945129C749564CC71--
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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