# Saw a bunch of cadets today....



## tree hugger (24 Jul 2004)

They were all in their uniforms going through the mall.  I saw a couple of guys wearing the NCM engineer cap badges....are they allowed to wear that on their berets, after all they are only cadets?


----------



## tree hugger (24 Jul 2004)

...and, why were they all dressed up in uniforms at the mall on a Saturday afternoon?


----------



## D-n-A (24 Jul 2004)

If their affiliated unit is that of an engineer unit, then they can, I've seen some cadets who were affiliated with an MP unit, they wore the red berets an MP capbadge, also I've seen cadets wearing the artillery capbadge. 

They may have been dressed up in their uniforms because they were doing a recruting drive maybe? Or something else with the cadets.


----------



## Jarnhamar (24 Jul 2004)

They could be recruiting or doing some type of money-donation drive.
In kingston i see cadets there all the time doing volenteer stuff.


----------



## tree hugger (24 Jul 2004)

Thanks guys, just seemed a little funky to me.


----------



## Zoomie (24 Jul 2004)

When Cadets are attending summer training (aka camp) they are permitted to go off camp for an afternoon of shopping.  They are required to wear their uniforms while doing this...


----------



## Excolis (26 Jul 2004)

"just cadets"   i hate when people use that term.   they might just be cadets, but many of them are future weekend warriors.  reservs start at 16 cadets end at 19.  so some of are cadets are older than your soldiers.  just a pet peeve....


----------



## combat_medic (26 Jul 2004)

They are just cadets, as we are just reservists, or just soldiers. Whether or not some of them might consider become soldiers in the future doesn't change the fact that they are still cadets, no matter what their age, cadet rank or experience. Ever seen a cadet try to pull rank on a serving soldier? It typically doesn't go over well.


----------



## nULL (26 Jul 2004)

Do you live in Nanaimo? I was working in the mall on Sunday and the place was flooded with them. Some of them seemed quite old, so I had them pinned as air cadets.


----------



## Scott (26 Jul 2004)

combat_medic said:
			
		

> They are just cadets, as we are just reservists, or just soldiers. Whether or not some of them might consider become soldiers in the future doesn't change the fact that they are still cadets, no matter what their age, cadet rank or experience. Ever seen a cadet try to pull rank on a serving soldier? It typically doesn't go over well.



I have seen this and it usually ends with threats of "pounding children into the ground like tent pegs" I believe that was one of the quotes used by a friend of mine. 

The cadet system is good, after learning about the unit affiliation I think that it is a good idea, gives them a sense of pride and identification among other cadets. Whenever I used to see our local group around I would watch them closely and make sure that they were representing the uniform and my hat badge correctly. I know that their CO drilled it into their heads that they had better behave in uniform or suffer consequences, for the most part they did. Sure, every now and again one or two get carried away, but that is because they are not educated enough about their system, that's all.

Just thoughts

Cheers


----------



## Excolis (26 Jul 2004)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> They were all in their uniforms going through the mall.  I saw a couple of guys wearing the NCM engineer cap badges....are they allowed to wear that on their berets, after all they are only cadets?



this is what i was refering to.. cadets hav the right to wear their affiliated regiments cap badge.  i just didnt like the tone..it was like he was saying they are only cadets, why would they be allowed to wear the insignia....


----------



## NavyGrunt (26 Jul 2004)

I think his problem may be with the fact that 'we' have to earn our badge while they 'get' it for nothing. We have to go through a period of nothing on our berets. Why should Cadets have something without earning it?


----------



## Michael Dorosh (26 Jul 2004)

combat_medic said:
			
		

> They are just cadets, as we are just reservists, or just soldiers. Whether or not some of them might consider become soldiers in the future doesn't change the fact that they are still cadets, no matter what their age, cadet rank or experience. Ever seen a cadet try to pull rank on a serving soldier? It typically doesn't go over well.



And you're "just a girl", whether or not you might become a man in the future (at taxpayer's expense) doesn't change the fact that you are still a female, no matter what age, rank or experience...

Sounds stupid when you put it that way, doesn't it... 

A little credit where credit is due.  I've seen Regular Force guys in their uniforms in shopping malls, too. 

Perhaps you are "just a reservist", I'm not "just" anything.  Pride goes as far as credit, or should do - if you can't give yourself credit, no one else will do it for you....


----------



## Michael Dorosh (26 Jul 2004)

RopeTech said:
			
		

> I think his problem may be with the fact that 'we' have to earn our badge while they 'get' it for nothing. We have to go through a period of nothing on our berets. Why should Cadets have something without earning it?



Cadets learn to drill, march and salute the same as you - what more does one need to do to "earn" it, in your opinion?  They also don't get paid for evening parades or annual training - I certainly never did, anyway.  Much different from the reservists.  So if you ask me, the cadet who volunteers his time has every right to be as proud as his older (or in some cases, as pointed out, younger) Reserve counterpart who gets handsomely paid for what he does.


----------



## stukirkpatrick (26 Jul 2004)

Well we are treading on thin ice here again...(regarding militarization of cadets debate)... but the basic purpose of the CF as an occupation, is to defend this country, its rights and its citizens, through training to use force.  Cadets do not receive this kind of instruction (thank god).  The military's basic purpose is not to drill march and salute.  Reservists/soldiers earn their capbadges through training to fight a war, or supporting those who do, not just by praticing drill.  

Just my opinion.

We don't expect to drill our enemies to death  ;D


----------



## NavyGrunt (26 Jul 2004)

Im not getting into a pissing contest Mr. Dorosh. I was trying to see the other side of the coin.   If cadets need a cap badge than maybe there should be a cadet cap badge. At any rate being a person who had a cadet attempt to ride me about not calling him 'sir' when we passed in the hallway Im of the firm position that not enough is done to seperate the two. If he is so proud of his cadet uniform give him a cadet cap badge and it should be all sunshine. Of course we know that wont fly because they all want to be more 'military'. To further my point I offer this Mr. Dorosh if they have so much pride in their outfit why would they wear someone elses badge?


----------



## alexk (26 Jul 2004)

All three types of cadets have a cadet capbage  but the Army cadets can wear the capbage of their affiated unit with permision of the co of that unit, its not somone elses capbage, i feel  as part of the ONTR unit im a senior cadet , a volenteer at the regimental museum and a steward in the officers mess. Thats about as close as ile ever get to the regiment, im going infantry  >


----------



## combat_medic (26 Jul 2004)

Michael: It's not like I can take off my "girl uniform" at the end of the day and can stop being a girl. Nor can I hand in girl membership card and suddenly become androgynous. It's a pretty ridiculous statement and not really a good comparison.

A cadet is a cadet, and should be treated as such. A soldier is a soldier and should be treated as such. If I said that I wanted to be a policeman someday, does that mean I can arrest people and carry a handgun in public? I would certainly hope not. Getting peeved about being treated like cadets because they might be soldiers one day is equally ridiculous.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (26 Jul 2004)

Cadets DO have their own cap badge - the equivalent of our corn flake, I wore it my first two years in Cadets.  It is a maple leaf with RCAC on it.  Once I learned a "trade" - ie qualified as a piper - I began to wear a regimental pattern badge.  I also paraded with the regimental pipes and drums as an augment for ceremonial parades.

I see nothing wrong with them wearing the cap badge of their affiliated units - in the Calgary Highlanders, their cap badge is gold, which is worn only by recruits in the regiment, and the cadets.  Qualified soldiers in the Regiment wear bronze, NCOs and officers of the Regiment wear chrome or nickle (silver coloured) as do all musicians.  My only advice would be for other regiments to do the same thing if it really bothers them that their cadets wear the "same badges."

What is the point of a cap badge to begin with?  It is not a trades badge and does not designate a trained soldier, it represents membership in the regiment, or to go beyond that, the regimental family.  Trades badges are worn on the sleeves and combat veterans are discernible by the campaign ribbons on their DEU.

I may be missing combat_medic's point, I am at work and not reading very carefully...I thought the issue was that some cadets were seen wearing their uniform with pride, and others were deriding them for being "just cadets."  I wouldn't have much respect for anyone who said they were "just" anything.  I remember an NCO telling me once I wasn't really in the Army, "just" the Militia.  Never been in a war, don't plan to, but then again, if I was intended to I wouldn't be in the Militia....now would I.


----------



## tree hugger (27 Jul 2004)

RopeTech said:
			
		

> I think his problem may be with the fact that 'we' have to earn our badge while they 'get' it for nothing. We have to go through a period of nothing on our berets. Why should Cadets have something without earning it?



That was my point.   Here at CFSME, officers do not get to wear the engineer cap badge until completion of phase III training, ncm's don't get theirs until their QL3.



			
				hopefully airborne soon said:
			
		

> this is what i was refering to.. cadets hav the right to wear their affiliated regiments cap badge.   i just didnt like the tone..it was like he was saying they are only cadets, why would they be allowed to wear the insignia....



That was my tone...just didn't think there was anything politically incorrect about it.   Maybe MY "girl uniform" is getting in the way!


----------



## Excolis (27 Jul 2004)

and jus tfor the record,   as far as i know, a reservist can go hand there uniform in whenever they want, the same as a cadet...   cadets are part of the regimental family, and should be treated like they are.  i guess i am lucky, down here in windsor, we dont have people thinking about cadets in a negitive way, our unit is extreemly helpful in all aspects to the cadets.   we get amazing support, and we appreciate that alot.  i am thankful there isn't many people here that look down on cadets.


----------



## dutchie (27 Jul 2004)

RE: "cadets are part of the regimental family, and should be treated like they are."

Technically, yes. But so is the ladies axillary......should we hand out cap badges to them?

The goal of the cadets is to produce good citizens, and foster an interest in the military, and in particular, interest in the parent unit of the cadet. The cadets are a civilian organization, not a military one.

Re: "i guess i am lucky, down here in windsor, we dont have people thinking about cadets in a negitive way, our unit is extreemly helpful in all aspects to the cadets."     

as is our unit.....but our cadet 'CO' is known to be a rampant sciver of t he units kit, and general thought of as a useless troll.......it is due to the fact that he is not part of the org structure that he can get away with it....only the CO can really do anything, and we all know how quick they are to act. That is not to say that our cadets aren't highly regarded....but they are kept in their rightful place.


----------



## Excolis (27 Jul 2004)

cadets are fully funded through DND.  if that doesn't make it a military organization i dont know what does.  it is run by military officers, not all are great i know, but still.  they are part of the regimental family, and should be allowed to wear regimental kit...   and you have a ladies aux, attached to your unit??? can you enlighten me?


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

"cadets are fully funded through DND.  if that doesn't make it a military organization i dont know what does"

I'm sorry did you start swearing oath's? Because I did. As for "being fully funded" by the dnd. Cadets had a completely seperate budget and doesnt actually use the "militarys" budget as far as I know. If one of the other board members could enlighten us...


----------



## rdschultz (27 Jul 2004)

The air cadet squadron my brother was in most certainly wasn't fully funded through DND.  I don't know specific numbers or percentages, but I know a large part of their income came from fundraising (working bingos and casinos for instance).  Some sort of convoluted scheme where the Parents association raised money, gave it to the Rotary Club, and then the Rotary Club donated the money back to the air cadet squadron

I think the fundraising was mostly for extra activities (trips and whatnot), so the funding of the day-to-day activities of the squadron may well have been provided by DND, I have no idea.  I'm just countering the point that all cadet activities are funded through the DND.


----------



## patt (27 Jul 2004)

Cadet cores are funded by there affilated unit, some by the legion and some by fundraiseing i should know cuz when i was in cadets money went missing in my core that the unit gave to us and there was a big investigation about it i know what happend but i cannot say


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

Well, all I have to say is that if anyone here really feels threatened by the fact that cadets are allowed to wear the same regimental badges as them, they are a sad, pathetic little creature and probably have no pride in themselves to begin with - thus the need to knock everyone else down a peg or two.

Our cadet corps in Calgary has produced some very upstanding citizens, many of whom have gone on to achieve great things both in our Militia regiment, and also on operations with the Regular Force (and in at least one case I know of, the British Army).

Luckily,the decision is out of the hands of the prejudiced like RopeTech and I don't see any changes on the horizon anytime soon, so to all the cadets out there lucky enough to be affiliated with a regular or reserve unit - wear your badges with pride and don't let anyone tell you that you don't deserve to do so.


----------



## Excolis (27 Jul 2004)

i agree mike, and yes cadets have a budget that comes from their detachment.   mine is in London, and they get so much money each year, yes from DND.  all of the staff are paid through DND.  yes some corps do a lot of fundraising to help keep their corps well maintained, but all weekend activities, ect... are funded by the budget.  and it is wrong to say that the corps are funded through there affiliated units, because i know of some units that give nothing to the cadet corps... 

still anyone have any info on the ladies aux???


----------



## highground (27 Jul 2004)

The biggest thing I don't like about cadets is when they wear the OD combats or I have seen some in   Cadpat (do ask me where they got it) and they ware the uniform like its nothing to them.   Shirt undone â â€œ boot untied- Pants not bloused, and their wearing your cap badge. Now people see this and they think of your whole unit like that.   Now anyone tell me if they have don't have problem with that?   

Now for you Cadets out there, why and when do you wear combats??   And are you shown how to wear them right?


----------



## Excolis (27 Jul 2004)

the cadpat combats the cadets wear they buy from the internet and they are not the same as the CF issue.  and i agree cadets that look like bags of shit all the time is not a good example to the CF.  i blame that on their officers.  they should take charge, and make these kids shape up, or ship out...  a new order came out saying cadets are only allowed to wear combats when out in the field.  they are supposed to wear their uniform at the LHQ.


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

Prejudiced?Why because I pointed out where the other side is coming from? You truly are   sad creature yourself. As for the upstanding citizens. Im sure they're are some. Thats not what Im debating. Im saying that as a youth organization. Good on them. They are not military though. Which when they wear a regiment's cap badge they get it in their little knoggins that they are. I mean look at the comment-

cadets are fully funded through DND.   if that doesn't make it a military organization i dont know what does

Proofs in the pudding. The kid thinks he's military. And your helping him along. Not only that, you've resorted to petty name calling. Nice work "MOD"


Sorry your so defensive about having been a cadet. 
Cheers

As a another note- I want to point out that I don't mind cadets. It takes dedication and they should be allowed to take pride in their organization. I wouldnt take attacks on my accomplishments so I wont crap on theirs. However I'm just pointing out the difference. Different isnt bad. I dont call them names or go out of my way to tease them. Actually I come from an ununderprivilegedamily and I have a cousin who is worse off than me.When he was 14 he joined air cadets. Gave him opportunities he would never have had. So I applaud the Cadets. However I at the same time remain mindful and cocognisantf the difference.


----------



## dutchie (27 Jul 2004)

Cadets should be proud of their affiliation with their regiment. But they should remember that they are not members of the Regiment, but rather they are members of the 'Regimental Family'. ONLY serving members of the Regiment are 'Seaforths', for instance. 

However, the cadets (in our unit at least) are highly regarded as an entity. Their officers are not, and some individual cadets are not (usually the ones who join the Regiment and start saying things like, "I was a Sergeant-Major in the cadets, so I know more thanyou, Corporal". 

Proud to be a cadet - you should be, but if you want to be proud to be a 'Seaforth', 'Eddy', 'Cal High', etc., you have to be a SWORN member first.

Get a grip Dorosh....your no longer a cadet....


----------



## Villy (27 Jul 2004)

Re: Cadet Budgets

while the ND budget for cadets is substational, it does not (unless things have changed in the last 4 or 5 years) cover all of their activities.

Funding is available for "Mandatory Training" - which in essence means a specified number of days in the field.   Sometimes, extra $$ might be made available, but significant additional funding (from sponsors etc) is necessary if you wish to have a vibrant and active squadron or corps.

All summer camp based training is paid for by ND.   Uniforms (not combats) are supplied by ND, and of course Officers pay as well.

Officers were paid for a max of 21 days per year ( + mandated training (i.e. Officers' training, not cadet training) at the normal reserve rate.   Some years there were extra paid days available for special events.   21 days per year covers the 1 night per week of LHQ training for the cadets.   We used to run a half day or more every Saturday morning, and a full weekend four or five times per training year.    Add the overhead, administration, trips to the detachment and the average hourly pay for a 10 year Captain was well under the Provincial minimum wage.

Officers could of course bid on postings to the summer camps - if you were a teacher, retired, or un-employed.... (otherwise how would you get the summer off ??)

ND's budget for cadets is substantial - no doubt about that.   Even wages are a significant issue when you consider that the CIC has   (If I remember correctly) has more officers than all of the rest of the CF combined (RF & PR)

Is it worth it -   I spent over 9 years with a local air cadet squadron, the last four years as CO.   I can't remember how many business people have told me that they give preference to ex cadets when they are hiring.   Why - because they have learned self discipline, and know how to get a job done.

There are a large number of really outstanding young people in the cadet movement, and I really believe that these youngsters will be the future leaders of our communities...


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Jul 2004)

I was always told cadet budgets come from a different org. then the DND.

I see the argument as pretty futile. (Like resisting the borg)

Cadets wear a units capbadge, kilt, maroon beret, balmoral, whats the big deal.

"They didn't earn it"
Have you seen the people passing basic and trade courses today?
On my course a soldier passed who ran PT maybe 6 times and did a whopping 200 meters meters into the FTX before "tripping". They passed anyways and wore the balmoral with slip ons and cap badge.

I'd rather "just a cadet" watching my back then this cap badge wearing soldier.  To some it may mean a lot and if they feel they've earned it then thats awesome but isn't this making a big deal over it? A cadet isn't a soldier. If they are representing my regiment and doing a good job, recruiting cadets who later become soldiers and keep MY regiment alive, then more power to them.

If someone is a seaforth cadet then thats what they are. If they call themselves a seaforth every now and then whats the big deal? It's like guys from #1,2,3RCR freaking out over a reservest from 4RCR calling himself a "royal".
One of the best pictures i've ever had taken is myself, a young cadet and a ww2 vet all wearing a "glens" T-Shirt from my old regiment chatting.


----------



## Eowyn (27 Jul 2004)

cadets are fully funded through DND.   if that doesn't make it a military organization i dont know what does

Proofs in the pudding. The kid thinks he's military.

Ummm Rope Tech, that kid isn't a kid.  He is in the military as a commissioned CIC officer.  But I agree with you, Cadets isn't military but a youth organization.


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

OOPS! Good enough he is in the Military his "underlings" are not. That is a bizarre system. Just a question- why does a cadet instructor require a commission?


----------



## tree hugger (27 Jul 2004)

Hope this doesn't add fuel to the fire, but do CIC officers have to attend IAP/BOTP?


----------



## D-n-A (27 Jul 2004)

I think CICs just have to attend a 1 week course to get their training.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

Note that I said wear the uniform "with pride."

Kids are kids.   My corps, when I was in, didn't tolerate sloppy uniforms.   In that sense, the badges of the parent regiment should be considered a privilege.   Wear your uniform properly or get the hell out.   I agree completely with that.

Kids being kids, you sometimes have to remind them several times of the right and wrong way to do things.   That doesn't mean being a dick about it; we had plenty of those when I was a cadet.   If someone is wearing the uniform incorrectly, it is within your power - even if you are a private in the Militia - to take the cadet aside at an opportune time and gently explain what he is doing wrong, but more importantly, why we do things the correct way.

Yelling across a four lane street "Do up your jacket numbnuts!" is not the way to go about it.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

LOL

Ropetech doesn't know politics when he sees it.  

Does someone have time to explain to RopeTech the political realities at play here, or what the definition of "military" is?  I don't think I can speak at a level low enough that he'll understand. Nor can I defend the use of my time in such a manner.

Bottom line - nothing will change based on his faulty understanding of the world around him, so I wouldn't be too terribly worried by his comments.  Just one more one-stripe wonder who thinks he knows how to run the CF and the country.


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

Actually, Mr. Dorosh, I was wondering if they had duties that required the commision. It wasnt snide. Unlike your comments. It was an inquiry. Kindly read over the posts of this topic and realize that your being an dink. I didnt attack you or the cadets. 

Would you mind explaining my "faulty" views? Is that because they aren't yours?   Wait- not getting into a pissing contest.


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Just one more one-stripe wonder who thinks he knows how to run the CF and the country.



This whole thing got started that word "Just". nd he was quick to correct everyone- Then he follows it up by doing the same thing. Hypocrite.


----------



## Eowyn (27 Jul 2004)

RopeTech said:
			
		

> Michael Dorosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with you, especially considering he's only a 2 striper himself.


----------



## Villy (27 Jul 2004)

CIC Officers

Things are changing, but the way it used to be (IIRC) was

10 day BOQ course & 1 year as an OCDT + recommendations of CO & Local Sponsor & Cadet League Representative   & approval of Area Cadet Officer
10 day MOC, 10 day LTQ & 1 year as 2LT +   ''''
10 day CQ & 2 years as LT                                 + ''                  = 1 Cpt

Typically civilians getting involved spend a number of years as volunteers and "Civilian Instructors" before being recruited and putting on a uniform.   In my own case,
once I made formal application, it took over a year before I climbed into my blue suit.   Takes a long time to find military service records from the late '60s in the national archives!!


not to mention who knows how many shorter courses as SupO, AdmO, RSO, CO & weekend conferences etc.

A number of officers also availled themselves of the OPDP correspondence courses, In my own case, I doubt that I would have had the time if I hadn't been between spouses during that time interval....

The intent is to train leaders who can manage their staff and the cadets....

Short by the standards of the PR & RF, but CIC Officers need a different skill set.

They are redoing all of this, so please bear in mind this is probably ancient history now.

The reason for making them commissioned officers is simple - it puts them in the chain of command, and makes them subject to the chain of command.

There have been some CIC Officers (not many, but a few) that have spent time polishing floors at Griesbach

I forgot to mention that a civilian organization - The Air Cadet League of Canada is a civilian partner with DND in the Air Cadet realm, and provides financial support for the flying scholarship (and other) programs.   The Army Cadet Leagiue & Navy League work somewhat diffently, but are partners for their "elements"

I remember a couple of incidents that left a good taste in my mouth. (I tend not to remember the other kind, it is counterproductive).   I was at Griesbach on a course during the summer.   There was a special training session for youth from the far north - to give them a taste of military life.   A group of Jr NCOs (DI types, muscle on top of muscle) from the Airborne served as directing staff.   One of them was in front of me at the lunch line one day.   He turned around and asked if I was a Cadt Instructor.   When I replied in the affirmative, he responded...    "You know Sir,   I never used to have much use for Cadet Instructors..".   Then there was the private serving up breakfast who told me (I don't know how many times)   how great Cadets had been for him..

We never turned out too many CF recruits.   We had one the went ROTC (if that's still a valid acronym), and one who just about made it to RCMC (had problem with her jaw that caused her to fail the physical).   We also had a number who wanted to join but weren't accepted.

We also filled the church every Rememberance Day, and made sure that people in our community did not forget the sacrifices that members of the CF (and the RCMP) have made for their country...

That has to count for something..


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

It sure does count Grover.

Thanks for answering my question about officers.


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Jul 2004)

When do we start telling funny stories about how we jacked up this cadet or that one for having an undone button.

Don't try to compare a CIC officer to a Reserve or regular force officer in a "combat/training" sense. Their job isn't to lead combat soldiers, it's to lead and develop  civilian teen-agers.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

Grover said:
			
		

> We never turned out too many CF recruits.   We had one the went ROTC (if that's still a valid acronym), and one who just about made it to RCMC (had problem with her jaw that caused her to fail the physical).   We also had a number who wanted to join but weren't accepted.
> 
> We also filled the church every Rememberance Day, and made sure that people in our community did not forget the sacrifices that members of the CF (and the RCMP) have made for their country...
> 
> That has to count for something..



Of course it does.  And I'll bet no one minded one way or another which cap badge they were wearing, either.

There are handicapped kids in Cadets which still benefit from the program; the 2137 corps had a Deaf Platoon, for example, and IIRC the program was a success.  You don't have to be in JTF 2 to benefit from military style training, nor should you be derided for "not being military."  Of course, any twit knows that Cadets aren't serving soldiers.  If RopeTech gets his shorts in a knot because there are some cadets who don't quite understand their place, well, I would say he has failed in his duties since it would be up to him to educate said cadet in a constructive manner - the same way I am sure his NCOs are attempting to educate him in his unit.  The military has always been best when it was about teamwork - not "sink or swim".

Oh...and one doesn't need to be a Chief Warrant Officer to give an opinion.  I may "only" have "just" two chevrons but I also have 17 years experience - which doesn't count time in cadets.  RopeTech is entitled to his opinions too.  I just happen to think they're stupid opinions formed out of ignorance.  He's entitled to wallow in it if he likes.


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

Again Dorosh on the attack.   : By the way Dorosh when your not telling people how experienced you are,(as you need to because your attitude sucks and doesnt show much) What is your civi job? Feel free to move this ridiculous attack to PM like the other guys who have issues with me.


----------



## CL84 (27 Jul 2004)

The ONLY problem I have with the cadet system is the fact that they get to wear the same cap badge that reg force or reservists get after weeks and weeks of very intense training. That's the only thing that bugs me really, sure, maybe they should have their own version of the regimental cap badge or something, who cares, that's the way it is.   I guess crying on here about it won't make anything different. So, if this is the way it is, and cadets do get to wear the same cap badge that reg force or reservists get to wear, then boo hoo, that's the way it is. I don't agree with it but whatever, that's the way it is. 

There are many, positive things about cadets as well. Not only developing an interest in the forces, but they do alot of community work and it builds them, in my oppinion, into better people. My friend, she is a cadet. She has been in for something like 6 years, I don't know exactly how long but shes a Master Warrant Officer/Sgt Major. She doesn't go around faunting her rank or anything, I've seen her on parade for the anniversary for d-day, she got the great oppertunity to head out to france and see some vets. It is a good thing for younger people, it's a great experience I'd say. I will definitly get my child into it whenever it is that I decide to be a Dad. 

I'm sure there are a million and one things wrong with cadets, I'm sure someone could come on here and list alot of things on this board about what's wrong with cadets. I'm also sure that someone could easily come on here and list alot of positive things about them as well. I just listed a few things positive about my friend who's up in the ranks with her corp. But there are a few things that SOME cadets really need to get into their head, they aren't combat soldiers. SOME cadets really need to realise what they are and what their role is, they aren't combat soldiers. I say this because my friend, who I admire very much despite some of the things she does lol....Bought a camel back, an all cadpat uniform, her own rucksack, she has a combat helmet the goggles, gortex boots (dont ask me how she got em) and a tac vest. Again, I don't know why on earth she'd need all this, who knows, who cares. That's just an example of how SOME cadets really need to wake up and realise what they are and what their role is.

I have nothing major against cadets, nobody should, if everyone just started looking at both sides of it, they would either stop giving a sh*t or get a better attitude about it. Just look at it from both sides. Some of them CANT be soldiers, maybe thats why they are still cadets. But some of them, like my friend who is 19, ready to age out, with a room full of combat equipment, need to quit the game and do the real thing or stop pretending and f'in around.

Cadets ARE just cadets, Reservists ARE just reservists and Regulars ARE just regulars. I'm sure theres good and bad in all three catagories, there is good and bad in everything, just don't always look at the bad or the good look at both.

'nuff rambling for me, just my 2 cents


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Jul 2004)

> Of course, any twit knows that Cadets aren't serving soldiers



Agreed, some cadets need to be reminded this. There seems to be no short supply of privates and corporals tripping over themselves to point this out. (some here,mostly in general) It's almost like a young NCM needs to do this to keep the big ol' pecking order in check.

Ropetech, not too sure what michaels Civi job has to do with it, sounds to me your going to try and use it to make a point? 

If you want to know something personal about someone you should send a PM.

EDIT for CL84: Why should it bother you?  Weeks and weeks of very intense training? Come on dude. I've met an honourary colonel who wore a capbadge and didn't serve a day in the army as far as im aware.

One of the major complaints i see about the cadets is them thinking they are soldiers.  I've met a few of them who would love to be soldiers and like role play it up but i've met a hell of a lot more privates and corporals who think they are some kind of special forces. Guys who talk about special forces this and that or go to the bars and lie to girls about being paratroopers, snipers, JTF, you name it.  It's a hell of a lot more insulting to me seeing a trained soldier try to bullshit about who and what he is than a 'cadet'.  Sure cadets by tones of army crap to look cool but our guys buy tons of shit they never are allowed to use just as much.  Not to step on any toes here but you ever see some of those airsoft.paint ball "regiments"?  Lt wolf this, captian commando that. 2nd platoon canadian airborne airrifle regiment.  These are trained soldiers pretending to be certain ranks.

Just as bad man. Cadets do dumb shit, so does the reserves and regs. Worry about yourself it makes life so much easier.


----------



## NavyGrunt (27 Jul 2004)

Im not trying to make any points. I said lets move it to PM's. This is awful OT now isnt it?


----------



## CL84 (27 Jul 2004)

Yah Ghost I agree with you. I should have clarified the 'weeks and weeks of very intense training' I was just trying to make my point. The cadets get the same badge as the guys who go through the long process to get it. It really honestly doesn't bother me to the point where I'm worrying about it to death, like I said at the beginning of my post, that's the way it is, who cares. 
I agree with you about the 'real' soldiers acting even more tough than they really are. 
It seems to me everyone is just trying to 'be' or 'pretend to be' like the guy above him, would that be human nature? To want to be like someone above/"better" than you? I suppose everyone has goals and people they admire, some people are very silly I agree. But, that's just the way it is.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

As always, Ghost, I enjoyed reading your post on this.  Great point about the Honourary Colonels, too.  Goes back to the main point - Regimental Family.  Especially in the times we're facing now - look what they are doing in Britain - cutting four regiments.  I should think we need all the support we can get for our Regiments; instead of making them smaller by telling cadets they're "not qualified" to belong to the family, we should be seeking to keep the franchise as broad as possible.  If some of the privates and corporals get their nose out of joint at the prospect, well, they too will grow up.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

RopeTech said:
			
		

> Im not trying to make any points.



Mission accomplished.


----------



## Inch (27 Jul 2004)

You guys should join the airforce or navy, no one wears the air ops badge except reg/res airforce and at that not everyone in blue wears the air ops badge, admin/log types have their own hat badges, same goes for the fishheads (sorry to any token fishheads, I mean fishheads, ah who am I kidding, I've got an XO now).  ;D

Cheers


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (27 Jul 2004)

Admit it Inch you love the navy...if the navy reformed its naval air arm you wold be the first to join.


----------



## Inch (27 Jul 2004)

You got me, I  would be. :-[


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Jul 2004)

> This is awful OT now isnt it?



Yup. usually when i see a topic that i think is totally unproductive (jtf, who is better, no gays in the army, why girls shouldnt join, cadets are weak) i make stupid and smart ass comments trying to drive the thread into the dirt so the mods lock it.

I used to be all hard core never wear my regiments t-shirt unless you passed ql3, cadets cant talk about "the real army" don't use a regiments avatar unless your with them. Then some of the bigger boys here sorted me out


----------



## Sundborg (27 Jul 2004)

Ghost,

You seem to think that "all" cadets are the same.  Sorry, the answer is no.  Not all cadets act as you see them. I don't know who you see trying to be all "commando" or whatever, but I'm sure the majority of them are army cadets trying to play soldier when they shouldn't.  I used to be a sea cadet for 4 years, and rarely have seen what you are referring to.


----------



## Arctic Acorn (27 Jul 2004)

The local army cadets up here in Yellowknife are affiliated with the PPCLI. They wear maroon berets, PPCLI capbadges, and no one says boo about it. I was a bit surprised to see them wearing para berets, but to each their own, I guess.


----------



## Jarnhamar (27 Jul 2004)

Sorry sunborg, you took my post wrong.

My opinion: Cadets are like the reserves and regs. Their not all the same. You have some real ass hats and you have some really great leaders. Some think their highspeed commandos and others are very grounded.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (27 Jul 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> You guys should join the airforce or navy, no one wears the air ops badge except reg/res airforce and at that not everyone in blue wears the air ops badge, admin/log types have their own hat badges, same goes for the fishheads (sorry to any token fishheads, I mean fishheads, ah who am I kidding, I've got an XO now).  ;D
> 
> Cheers



But all the trades wear wings, which has surprised some of the older air force types to no end...(!)  Well, half a wing, anyway.


----------



## Inch (27 Jul 2004)

You're right, half wings on the right for most trades and full wings on the left for aircrew pos'n (pilot, nav, aesop, fe, & SAR tech). Those are qualifications though, a little different than a hat badge or other unit identifier. 

Cheers


----------



## Sundborg (28 Jul 2004)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Sorry sunborg, you took my post wrong.
> 
> My opinion: Cadets are like the reserves and regs. Their not all the same. You have some real *** hats and you have some really great leaders. Some think their highspeed commandos and others are very grounded.



I can agree with that one.


----------



## Excolis (28 Jul 2004)

what where you waying about me not stating somewhere that i was in the military.  where did you get that i was a cadet?  and many of our CIC officers, are retired/transfered officers for regforce/PRes components.  and if you ask me.. many of the CIC officers out there can be compared to any PRes Officer.   the only difference is we have no battle training.

as for the cadets "not earning" the cap badge.  i think they do more to earn it than some of the soldiers.  most cadets have to complete almost a year of training, to get their regimental cap badge.  like it was said before in this post that cadets wear acookie cutter, like your corn flake when they first join.  they do have to earn their cap badge.

one of you said something about cadets wearing the maroon beret, there is a good post in the army cadet section about the whole beret issue.


----------



## NavyGrunt (28 Jul 2004)

We have to earn that cornflake as well. Thats fine. We have different out looks on it. No biggie. Its not like I go up to cadets and tell them I think they are low and dont "deserve" anything(which I dont think). I think PERHAPS that the close ties to the associated unit MAY contribute to the Nintendo Sniper attitude of SOME Cadets. Thats all Im saying. The problem isnt that I think all cadets are like this- the problem is the ones that do have this attitude are the loudest. But isnt that always the case? As for reg/Pr not earning it- they swore an oath to fight and die(maybe) for their country and Queen. This should be seen as deserving of something. Even the most useless tit soldier or loudmouth, uncooperative RMS clerk.(Which again are a minority but are unfortunately the Loudest)


----------



## Canuck725 (28 Jul 2004)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> They are required to wear their uniforms while doing this...


Not true, some are, and if the officers are feeling a little angry, they might send them in the gray PT uniform. But otherwise, when your flight (Air Cadets) behaves well, you can usually go in civvies


----------



## Excolis (28 Jul 2004)

no problem rope tech, i know what your point is, and to tell you the truth i agree to some extent.but most affiliatedunits love seeing the cadets wear their head dress and are very proud of them.  i guess it is all how the cadet corps is ran.  how the cadets look infront of the regiments troops is how the regiment gets its opinions.


----------



## NavyGrunt (28 Jul 2004)

As an institution I think cadets is very good. And the members of both their officers cadre and the cadets themselves should be proud. Older vets speak very highly of them. As for the most part they are youth's that take enormous pride in their country. Something that cant be said for everyone else. 

Im in the Navy- what the heck do I know about any of this anyways? ;D


----------



## homerjsimpson (30 Jul 2004)

:crybaby: I could only get through 1/3 of this topic , being an ex cadet (RCR & PPCLI) now Reg PPCLI there are WAY too many ppl posting here that dont know _SHITE_


----------



## Michael Dorosh (30 Jul 2004)

Without Warning said:
			
		

> :crybaby: I could only get through 1/3 of this topic , being an ex cadet (RCR & PPCLI) now Reg PPCLI there are WAY too many ppl posting here that dont know _SHITE_



Were you going to prove somehow that you know better?  An actual opinion, some experiences, a quote from a CFAO - something - anything - would be more constructive than petty attacks on whomever it is you are attacking.  You don't even make it clear which 1/3 you agree with. 

Care to elaborate....?


----------



## homerjsimpson (31 Jul 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Without Warning said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not realy.


----------



## Scott (31 Jul 2004)

There are many more cadets and former cadets here who would most likely disagree with you and guess what.....they at least qualify their remarks. Thanks for coming out....buh bye.


----------



## homerjsimpson (31 Jul 2004)

scott1nsh said:
			
		

> There are many more cadets and former cadets here who would most likely disagree with you and guess what.....they at least qualify their remarks. Thanks for coming out....buh bye.


Oh geeze ya R031! BUH BYE!

*EDIT* OMFG FORMER R! DOUBLE BUH BYE!

*SECOND EDIT* Should i keep pressing this reload button...or can i get back to my beer? ???


----------



## Gunnar (31 Jul 2004)

Until you have something substantive to say, your opinions are meaningless.  Until we have some clue whether or not you have the experience to make such judgement calls, you opinions are meaningless.  If you don't care to back up your opinions with facts, we reserve the right not to value your opinions.

And I, for one, do not.

Is there a particular reason you feel the need to make these accusations?  Or just bored and want to start a flame war?


----------



## homerjsimpson (31 Jul 2004)

Gunnar said:
			
		

> Until you have something substantive to say, your opinions are meaningless.   Until we have some clue whether or not you have the experience to make such judgement calls, you opinions are meaningless.   If you don't care to back up your opinions with facts, we reserve the right not to value your opinions.
> 
> And I, for one, do not.
> 
> Is there a particular reason you feel the need to make these accusations?   Or just bored and want to start a flame war?


CIVVE AH... BUH BYE


----------



## MJP (31 Jul 2004)

> Quote from: Gunnar on Today at 00:07:27
> Until you have something substantive to say, your opinions are meaningless.   Until we have some clue whether or not you have the experience to make such judgement calls, you opinions are meaningless.   If you don't care to back up your opinions with facts, we reserve the right not to value your opinions.
> 
> And I, for one, do not.
> ...


[sarcasm]way to add to a topic....well informed posts and excellent people skills...I commend you W/O you have made army.ca a joy to come to...I hope you post more often,[sarcasm]


----------



## Spr.Earl (31 Jul 2004)

Cadet Unit's wear the badge of their Mother Units end of Topic.


----------



## Scott (31 Jul 2004)

Thank you Earl, simplicity rules.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (31 Jul 2004)

And I think that'll end this fiasco.


----------

