# my story



## bondarenkoa (25 Jan 2008)

ok guys i just got back from doing my second audiogram, and yet again i didnt do to great....i got H3 instead of gettin H2 to be enrolled....So i did some research and what i have is Sensorineural Hearing Loss...so basically my nerves in the middle ear are dead.....no on my audiogram it showed i got 10/10 at 500.....10/5 at 1000.......10/5 at 2000....and 60/60 at 3000........well that 3000 is where it all screwed me up...basically in order for me to get in i had to get atleast 30/30 in the 3000 category, and i didnt so now i am very disappointed because the last 6 months i have been studying and had my mind on my career that i wanted to do in the canadian army....so i was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what i should do, please post your opinions i would like to hear it all....


----------



## omgLiam (25 Jan 2008)

Are there no trades in the military that'll accept a H3?


----------



## JBoyd (25 Jan 2008)

there are trades that accept H3, however H2 is the requirement for enrollment, you need to have H2 to be accepted


----------



## omgLiam (25 Jan 2008)

Hm, go figure. I wasn't aware of that.

Sorry for the bad luck on the hearing side of things.


----------



## bondarenkoa (25 Jan 2008)

can anyone list any trades that require H3, that would be really great......I am still gonna battle this thing when i get my letter of denial....wish me luck guys


----------



## JBoyd (25 Jan 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> can anyone list any trades that require H3, that would be really great......I am still gonna battle this thing when i get my letter of denial....wish me luck guys



http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/pdf/engraph/cfp154_annexEappen1-2_e.pdf  will provide the answers, however looking at them is pointless at this time as you need H2 to enroll, there is no way around that.


----------



## bondarenkoa (26 Jan 2008)

any ideas on what i should say when i go and fight my letter of denial?


----------



## aesop081 (26 Jan 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> any ideas on what i should say when i go and fight my letter of denial?



i dont know but whatever you say, make sure they answer you real loud


----------



## JBoyd (26 Jan 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> any ideas on what i should say when i go and fight my letter of denial?



If the CFRC will let you do the hearing test again I would suggest that before you do you go to your doctors and have an ear flush. Other than that there isn't anything you can do, from my understanding this isn't a matter you can fight or win, H2 is the minimum if you cannot achieve that you cannot enroll.


----------



## RTaylor (26 Jan 2008)

You could, if you wanted to, and it is a bit extreme and may or may not work, but well, you could resensitize your ears by wearing ear protectors (ear plugs or whatever else) for a couple of days. It helps to relax your ears, and trust me when you remove them you'll hear alot more than before. Might be enough to pull you through the test again, who knows.


----------



## bondarenkoa (29 Jan 2008)

sounds good...i am gonna get my ears flushed..and go to a second specialist. because i had a bad feeling about the firts one i went too....


----------



## CFR FCS (29 Jan 2008)

Have to say it but if you don't meet the Universality of Service for Common Enrolment Medical Standards (CEMS) you are out of luck. 

If somehow you can have a medical procedure to fix your problem they might re consider it. I'm doubtful that you can get your hearing permanently fixed enough to join, but hey I'm not a doctor, I just work in recruiting.

The standards are very basic and usually people have no problem meeting them, however the reason behind them is to ensure all soldiers, airmen (air women) and sailors can do their jobs without any physical ailment effecting their performance as a member of the team. Military life is tough enough without having a disability of any kind, however minor you may believe it to be, to reduce your effectiveness. Yes, you might trick your ears into working better to pass a test but you had better be able to hear clearly under stress in less than ideal conditions when it isn't a test.

Best of luck.


----------



## bondarenkoa (30 Jan 2008)

i still think its a matter of getting my ears flushed and cleaned because i have never had any problems with my ears before, and it was a surprise to everyone when i went for me medical and got my audiogram, i am 21 and i think there is just a mistake they have made, or i just have to focus on the test a little more, because lately i have had stress up to my head, cause i have a baby on the way, my woman is PMS'ing and everyone around me is freaking out...so i believe that i can do this if i take a day and relax a bit


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> i still think its a matter of getting my ears flushed and cleaned because i have never had any problems with my ears before,



Thats probably because you were never tested at those frequencies before. What you can/can't hear on a daily basis is not indicative of audiogram results.



> i am 21 and i think there is just a mistake they have made, or i just have to focus on the test a little more, because lately i have had stress up to my head, cause i have a baby on the way, my woman is PMS'ing and everyone around me is freaking out...so i believe that i can do this if i take a day and relax a bit



boo freakin hoo........

I have to pass the audiogram every single year. I have all those stress factors affecting me in one way or another. I have other personal and career related stresses you cant even begin to imagine. The sounds in the audogram : You either hear them or you dont. Stop blaming stress or other people. get your ears flushed and get re-tested. Stress wasnt the problem.


----------



## omgLiam (31 Jan 2008)

Maybe I'm just naive about physiology here, but how can she be pregnant and PMS'ing?

I'm just sayin'.


----------



## JBoyd (31 Jan 2008)

omgLiam said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm just naive about physiology here, but how can she be pregnant and PMS'ing?
> 
> I'm just sayin'.



I believe in this context he is using "PMS'ing" as a euphemism


----------



## PMedMoe (31 Jan 2008)

I have to say, as a female, I find the use of "PMSing" rather derogatory.  Why should women be penalized for acting a few days a month like a man does most of the time.


----------



## Celticgirl (31 Jan 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I have to say, as a female, I find the use of "PMSing" rather derogatory.  Why should women be penalized for acting a few days a month like a man does most of the time.



I agree that it is derogatory. Grow up, guys.  :


----------



## bondarenkoa (23 Feb 2008)

so i got my letter the other day saying that my medical standards did not meet..i was wondering if anyone has any idea on what my next step should be...someone told me i can go and fight it...please help me out guys..


----------



## bondarenkoa (24 Feb 2008)

ok guys so i am gonna call the recruiting centre to find out where i have to make my calls, for my next step. I am very pissed that i didnt get accepted, because i had a rough life.......i came to canada in 1995...did good finished school,and did everything right.....but met some bad people at one point made some bad decisions, and now i got my shit together, did my aptitude test passed and the medical is basically the one thing that screwed me over.....i am having a baby boy in july....my first i am so happy...but i am just very pissed about these standards that the canadian forces have...something needs to be done here


----------



## aesop081 (24 Feb 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> ok guys so i am gonna call the recruiting centre to find out where i have to make my calls, for my next step. I am very pissed that i didnt get accepted, because i had a rough life.......i came to canada in 1995...did good finished school,and did everything right.....but met some bad people at one point made some bad decisions, and now i got my shit together, did my aptitude test passed and the medical is basically the one thing that screwed me over.....i am having a baby boy in july....my first i am so happy*...but i am just very pissed about these standards that the canadian forces have...something needs to be done here *



 :crybaby:


Because you didnt meet the standards , theres something wrong with the standards ?


----------



## Yrys (24 Feb 2008)

omgLiam said:
			
		

> but how can she be pregnant and PMS'ing?



I'm not a doctor, but a woman...

A woman can be pregnant and loosing blood. A nurse told me some years ago that it is a bad sign for the 
baby, that a pregnant woman losing blood have to consult immediately.

As for pregnant lady and PMS'ing, there  was one on television a few months back. She was doing TV show 
because when she give birth she didn't knew she was pregnant. She was telling that she was on the pill,
and had her normal menstruations during pregnancy. (She was overweight, the baby didn't kick, so she was saying that there wasn't any way for her to know).

I don't know the frequency of that ( pregnant lady and PMS'ing ).


----------



## dwalter (24 Feb 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Because you didn't meet the standards , theres something wrong with the standards ?



I have to agree with CDN Aviator on this one. The medical standards are there to ensure everyone who is accepted into the forces is at an acceptable medical level. If something is wrong that could cause injury or disability during training, or during a person's career, that would be a very bad thing. From what you said in your first post, you have a hearing problem. If you haven't tried to get your ears flushed, or have things looked at by a doctor, then do that. You must meet the H2 standard if you hope to be accepted. Another possibility, though you would have to ask the recruiting center, would be to go to an ear specialist, and have him administer and audiogram, then sign off the results and fax them to the CFRC, where they could make a decision.


----------



## Penny (24 Feb 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> ok guys *i just got back from doing my second audiogram*, and yet again i didnt do to great..
> ..i got H3 instead of gettin H2 to be enrolled....So i did some research and what i have is Sensorineural Hearing Loss...so basically my nerves in the middle ear are dead.....no on my audiogram it showed i got 10/10 at 500.....10/5 at 1000.......10/5 at 2000....and *60/60 at 3000*........well that 3000 is where it all screwed me up...basically in order for me to get in i had to get atleast 30/30 in the 3000 category, and i didnt so now i am very disappointed because the last 6 months i have been studying and had my mind on my career that i wanted to do in the canadian army....so i was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what i should do, please post your opinions i would like to hear it all....



OK. You had two audio grams and they both told you similar results, right?






http://www.audiology.org/NR/rdonlyres/3C6E37BD-DE31-4735-B8FF-75828FC1176F/0/points.gif


Every point on an audiogram represents a different sound. For example, point A on the audiogram below represents a soft low-pitch sound and point B represents a soft high-pitch sound. Point C represents a loud mid-pitch sound.

A result of 60/60 at 3000 could suggest that you have difficulty hearing high-pitched sounds that are louder than the average human voice which is 20 to 50 dB. That could include sounds that are used as warning tones on electronic equipment, computers and vehicles. 

So regardless of what choice you make for your career, (and I do hope that you get a career you enjoy and find satisfying) you may still want to look into what these results may be telling you purely for your own self-interest. For example, there may be things that you could do to preserve the hearing that you have now.


----------



## bondarenkoa (22 Apr 2008)

ok people so its been since january 15 since i completed my CFAT and passed.....i had my list of mocs i could do..i chose infantry....the same day comes the medical, everything went smooth till i got into the audiogram booth...i got an H3 and needed an H2 to enroll....so then i was shocked, so i had to get another audiogram but this time from a professional.. so the date comes a couple of weeks later i do the test and again i got an H3...so this time i send in my results and they denied my file saying thanks for your interest in the army...so then me not giving up i went to my local MP and i spoke to him and told him the story....he directly called peter Mackay, minister of national defence to ask for a favor for me...so i am waiting for 3 weeks and now i get a call from the recruiting centre and they tell me that my file is being looked at again by higher officials...so now i am patiently waiting for their decision....

if anyone had the same experience please go ahead and make a comment

thanks Alex


----------



## muskrat89 (22 Apr 2008)

Sorry - I admire your tenacity, but I don't believe entrance requirements should be adjusted due to "favours".

That's my opinion.


----------



## PMedMoe (22 Apr 2008)

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> Sorry - I admire your tenacity, but I don't believe entrance requirements should be adjusted due to "favours".
> 
> That's my opinion.



I agree. 
Many others before have been "disappointed" by not meeting recruiting standards and many more after will be too.  They are there for a reason.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (22 Apr 2008)

> ...so then me not giving up i went to my local MP and i spoke to him and told him the story....he directly called peter Mackay, minister of national defence to ask for a favor for me...so i am waiting for 3 weeks and now i get a call from the recruiting centre and they tell me that my file is being looked at again by higher officials...so now i am patiently waiting for their decision....



It happens more often than you think.  People (both in and out of the service) will contact their MP when they are unsatisfied with a reply (or a lack of reply) from CF authorities.  The CF responds because, well, you don't want to piss off the politicians.  It would be very surprising if it actually came to the attention of the minister, probably just a staff lackey.  From my recollection, if the matter was really important to the minister, a ministerial inquiry red folder (MINQUERY) would land on someone's desk at NDHQ and a full, formal answer would be required to be back in the minister's office within "hours".  I've answered a few MINQUERYs years ago (well, investigated the issue and drafted the response for the general's signature) and found that they do not usually change anything unless the original actions were incorrect.  In your case what I suspect has happened is that a request (not MINQUERY) was made by the minister's office that your file be reviewed to make sure that a mistake had not made with regard to the original category granted.  The recruiting center probably just informed you of the further review because a.  they were told to by a higher level, or b. they wanted you to know that your request to the MP is being actioned so that they do not receive further calls.  I wouldn't get my hopes up unless you believe that your hearing is better that the tests measured and they were wrong.  It would not be a very smart for a minister to interfere with and override "legal" requirements as a favour for another MP.  Those kind of things have a tendency these days to come back and bite them in the ***.

(Edited to add)

There is a reason there are physical and medical standards in the CF.  When politicians interfere with the proper application of these standards, the only thing they do is hurt the CF.  Since you've already informed the world that you are attempting to use political influence to get into the CF when you may not be qualified to do so otherwise, it will be interesting to see what comes of your case.  Please keep us (and any journalists lurking these means) informed of the outcome of this review of your medical.  In the meantime, I think I'll send a letter to my MP and the Minister and let him know my opinion of this sort of matter.


----------



## bondarenkoa (22 Apr 2008)

would there be a possibility for them to look at another moc that was on my choices and assign me with something that i will be able to get in...after all, the enrolment for an infantry soldier is H3 to do the job and only an H2 to enroll....so i dont see why they cant make an exception


----------



## PMedMoe (22 Apr 2008)

You *HAVE* to be an H2 to enroll in *ANY* trade.  There are no exceptions.
Sorry for being blunt, but you don't seem to be understanding that H2 is the enrollment standard.  Anything lower and you do not meet the requirements.


----------



## 2fly (22 Apr 2008)

As a current member, I wish you luck with you application but I would not expect them to bend the rules for you.  The military tends to be fairly stead fast with respect to the medical standards for enrollment.  Those standards are for your protection and ours.


----------



## George Wallace (22 Apr 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> would there be a possibility for them to look at another moc that was on my choices and assign me with something that i will be able to get in...after all, the enrolment for an infantry soldier is H3 to do the job and only an H2 to enroll....so i dont see why they cant make an exception



And one could ask "What makes you so special?"  If the CF makes an exception for you, how about all the other people out there who also feel that an exception should be made for them?  What would that do to the "standards" that are currently set for enrollment?


----------



## bondarenkoa (12 Jun 2008)

maybe if all the people out there that wanna start a petition...if we get lots of names out there with the same problems they should lower the enrollment standards and let the people with the same problem in.......please make comments


----------



## VM (12 Jun 2008)

bondarenkoa, are you serious with that last post? i mean, how in the hell are you not getting this? people aren't gonna start a petition to get you in, or others, who didn't meet the medical standards because for your safety and the safety of those around you people don't want you in the CF. Everyone here is telling you that the standards are there for a reason, which they are, but you won't listen, in fact, you will go as far as trying to lower the enrollement standards so that your PROBLEM will no longer be an issue; your an idiot. 

You have completely ignored everything everyone has written; your not only hard of hearing but hard of reading as well.


----------



## aesop081 (12 Jun 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> maybe if all the people out there that wanna start a petition...if we get lots of names out there with the same problems they should lower the enrollment standards and let the people with the same problem in.......please make comments



Heres my comment :

 :crybaby:


----------



## scoutfinch (12 Jun 2008)

Here's my comment:

I don't want ANYONE who cannot meet the minimum standard for acceptance to be accepted into the CF.

Moreover, I don't want ANYONE  who thinks that they can leverage political favouritism to slip under the minimum standard nor do I want someone who believes that petitions should result in changes to the acceptance standards.

I am sorry, but to be frank, you don't meet the standard.


----------



## 2fly (13 Jun 2008)

bondarenkoa said:
			
		

> maybe if all the people out there that wanna start a petition...if we get lots of names out there with the same problems they should lower the enrollment standards and let the people with the same problem in.......please make comments



Since I have been a service member for over ten years, I am sure that I speak for more than just myself when I say...  If you do not meet the current standard for the CF, I do not want to fight beside you!  If you do happen to meet the standard in the future, you would be welcomed by us but in the mean time, no thank you!


----------



## RCDtpr (15 Jun 2008)

This just might be my opinion here but I'll tell you why I wouldn't want to work with you.  From what I'm reading your attitude sucks.  Your getting advice from a lot of guys with a LOT of time in and your ignoring and arguing with them.  Secondly it seems that you have been faced with a problem, and the means you seem to be using to solve this problem, is bitch and moan and make phone calls until you get your way.  Well I have a newsflash for you.  If you ever do get in, your going to be told to do things you don't wanna do etc. and bitching, moaning, and going to higher ups to get your way isn't going to result in a favourable opinion of you by your co-workers.

Just my two cents tho.

P.S. the fact your trying to rally people to lower an already pretty low acceptance standard is ludacris.  To be blunt we've got enough shitpumps in this army and don't need anymore simply because people who can't get accepted feel they are being wronged.


----------



## blacktriangle (16 Jun 2008)

RCDtpr said:
			
		

> P.S. the fact your trying to rally people to lower an already pretty low acceptance standard is ludacris.  To be blunt we've got enough shitpumps in this army and don't need anymore simply because people who can't get accepted feel they are being wronged.



Damn right!


----------



## smoke (19 Jun 2008)

I completly agree with everone here, If I were in the infantry, I would not want some one who couldn't hear orders or commands alongside me It's just not safe for any one serving,
I at first got denied because of migraines and ADD, I was quite crushed and I know how you feel.

The standards can't/won't be lowerd for you, 

This should be locked.


----------



## tech2002 (19 Jun 2008)

There are plenty people here on this site that have similar problems, but they don't speak up because of the backlash they receive from 'some' of the members on this site,
I believe that is is good way to speak up and raise concerns and issues that some of new guys who wants to join up have, but they found themselves in situation where medical problems they have stood against them. All of you that have experience can help out, some things are not explainable, and the best is to guide them to give proper information. 
I would suggest that you contact CF center or go in person and talk to officer that interview you, and ask them for info, or talk to doc that was checking you out at the time of the medical test for explanation, I went through the same situation you went through, and I have gave up last week  after talking to Major that sent me the first original  letter, it took me 6 months to get appointment , I drove to Ottawa , had a interview, I came up more shocked, then I hoped for,  I wasn't prepare to hear/see this, but it made my day.. I would suggest to look for other jobs that can fulfill your dream.. there is a reason why H1 and H2 is required, vision is not the same as hearing , hearing you can loose very quickly in short period of time then vision, I agree that vision V4 should be not accepted as well, each body responds differently to noise level, and it is hard to predict that..  I think good ear mufflers are required , now I know why some officers after 5 years + service wear hearing aid ...


----------



## PMedMoe (19 Jun 2008)

tech2002 said:
			
		

> now I know why some officers after 5 years + service wear hearing aid ...



Officers???  And not NCMs?
Here's the facts folks, and I've held off for sometime (what a shock!!!).  There are enrollment standards and guess what?, despite the fact that "I've wanted to be in the military since I was 12" (13, 15, whatever) they are there there for a reason and they are not going to change any time soon.  Since you are still young, go to school, learn a trade and get a job, don't keep holding onto something that may never happen.  That also goes for you "older" folks that (for some trades) standards have changed.  Don't pin all your hopes on the fact that you may still be able to get in.  Yes, you have the "life" experience but face it, you're older, competition is there.  Don't get all obsessed by something you've always "wanted to do" and then be disappointed because it doesn't happen.....again.

 Everyone, please be realistic!!!


----------



## RCDtpr (20 Jun 2008)

You guys with the "dream" also aren't looking at the bigger picture.  The enrollment standard for hearing is H2.  There is a simple reason for this.......for every combat arms trade, and most other trades for that matter you are near loud things everyday.  I'll use armoured as an example because I'm most familiar with it.  As a crewman you are in a freakin loud vehicle regardless of whether or not you're in the turret, GIB hole, or drivers hole.  Same deal with tanks.

Now I don't know what my hearing is but it's obviously at least H2.  So if I have H2 hearing, after 10 years you can pretty much guarantee it will have degraded.  Let's say after 10 years I drop to an H3.  Well if you come in as an H3 it's safe to say after 10 years you will be H4 or whatever it would be.  See where I'm going with this?

Obviously I'm not a doctor and don't know anything technical about hearing.  But if you come in with worse hearing than other recruits, down the line in you're career it's quite possible you will reach an unnacceptable level of hearing faster than other soldiers.  Now you've become useless to a combat arms trade and potentially a burden on the CF.

Does it suck? Yep.  But unfourtunately, and this might hurt to hear, the army isn't for everyone.  And it seems you're one of the people who it isn't for.


----------

