# NDP call Canadian troops "terrorists" and say the CF is "Bombing Afghan villiages"!



## hugh19 (6 Sep 2006)

PUBLICATION:  National Post 
DATE:  2006.09.06 
EDITION:  All but Toronto 
SECTION:  News 
PAGE:  A1 / Front 
BYLINE:  John Ivison 
SOURCE:  National Post 
DATELINE:  OTTAWA 
ILLUSTRATION: Colour Photo: Sergeant Lou Penney, TFA OP Athena ImageryTechnician / FALLEN COMRADES IN ARMS: Canadian soldiers pay tribute yesterday to those killed this week in Afghanistan: Private William Jonathan James Cushley, Sergeant Shane Stachnik, Warrant Officer Richard Francis Nolan, Warrant Officer Frank Robert Mellish and Private Mark Anthony Graham. See A6, A10, A12  
WORD COUNT:  694 

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NDP to vote on whether troops are 'like terrorists': Resolutions for convention harsh on Afghan mission

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OTTAWA - Canada's troops in Afghanistan have been "acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people", according to a resolution that will be voted on by New Democrats at the party's convention in Quebec City this weekend. 

The resolution is one of 104 proposals on international affairs from local riding associations that will be presented at the convention. Others suggest Canada withdraw from the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the World Trade Organization and the North American Free Trade Agreement, while one riding association proposes a freeze on trade with Israel until the "occupation of Palestinian lands" is ended. 

The Afghan mission was the subject of a number of proposed resolutions, all calling for the withdrawal of Canadian troops. "The Canadian occupation is propping up a regime composed of barbarous warlords who are little better than the Taliban," says one riding association. 

The resolution comparing Canadian troops to terrorists, put forward by the Nanaimo-Cowichan riding association in British Columbia, says Canada's goals "cannot be achieved by violence when the 'enemy' cannot be distinguished from ordinary citizens" and calls for Canadian troops to be withdrawn from that country. 

Its release comes as the bodies of five Canadian soldiers were returned home after being killed in the Kandahar region on the weekend. 

A spokesman for Jack Layton said the NDP leader would not comment on the language used in the resolution or indicate whether he intended to vote for it. 

"These resolutions have not been debated yet and have absolutely no status at this time," Karl Belanger said. 

Jean Crowder, NDP MP for Nanaimo-Cowichan, also refused to comment on the resolution before it has been debated at the convention. 

Last week, Mr. Layton called for the withdrawal of Canadian troops, claiming Afghanistan is "not the right mission for Canada." At that time, he said New Democrats support the Canadian Forces and are proud of the work they do. 

Mr. Layton's call to bring the 2,300 troops home has been criticized by both Conservatives and Liberals, particularly since he reiterated it following the death of four Canadians in Afghanistan. Yesterday, he issued a statement expressing his condolences to the bereaved families that made no mention of his desire to withdraw combat troops. 

The resolution by Ms. Crowder's riding association singles out NDP MP Peter Stoffer, who supports the mission in Afghanistan. 

"This is not an acceptable position when world peace hangs in the balance. A combat role in Afghanistan is a no-win situation both for Canada and for the Afghani people. Its only dubious value is to curry favour with the militarist government of George W. Bush," it says. 

Mr. Stoffer said yesterday delegates are free to express their opinions. 

"But I absolutely fundamentally disagree with the statement. The people who did it are not only very naive but very antagonistic in their point of view," he said. The NDP draft policy resolutions appeared briefly on the party Web site last week before being taken down. However, Conservative blogger Stephen Taylor obtained a copy and posted them on his Web site yesterday. 

The resolution about Israel calls for the end to "military aid and economic trade," claiming "there can be no lasting peace in Palestine/Israel or the surrounding region without social justice." 

The Trinity-Spadina riding association in Toronto called for the NDP to support the right of return for all refugees, an end to Israeli settlements and "occupation" of Palestine lands, "a halt to armed aggression, the bulldozing of homes, destruction of olive groves and farms and the assassination of political leaders and activists by the Israeli state." 

It said the NDP should campaign for an end to the "rule of apartheid laws that make Palestinians and Israeli Arabs second- and third-class citizens under occupation" and added it is opposed to the use of suicide bombings against civilian targets. 

Despite the widespread criticism, Darrell Bricker of pollster Ipsos Reid said the anti-war stance may pay electoral dividends for the NDP -- and the Conservatives. 

"If this issue drives the next vote, Layton could pull enough anti-war votes from the Liberals to help elect Tories," he said. He said the Liberals are in a difficult position on Afghanistan because they launched the mission, and at least two of the leadership candidates -- Michael Ignatieff and Scott Brison -- are in favour of its extension to 2009. 

jivison@nationalpost.com


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## Tolstoyevsky (6 Sep 2006)

Has bin-Laden been invited to the NDP convention as a guest speaker? What about Nasrallah or Ahmadinejad?


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## AIC_2K5 (6 Sep 2006)

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=2d1586cd-646f-4358-93e5-567e77d87b59&k=31590

Hahaha...wow

Jack and his possy never cease to amaze me. They once again buried their head in the sand on this one.


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## patrick666 (6 Sep 2006)

I didn't think speech could be so clear with your head in your ass. Obviously, I was proven wrong yet again.


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## The_Falcon (6 Sep 2006)

I don't have the words to express what I am feeling after reading that article.  Suffice it to say they would not be kind words.


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## scoutfinch (6 Sep 2006)

While Peter Stoeffer has voiced his objections to the resolution, I think the people in his riding should revisit his regular return to Parliament.  The NDP has stepped waaaaaayyyy over the line this time.


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## geo (6 Sep 2006)

Grandstanding at it's finest.

Having given advance warning to the entire region that we were coming in, asking the good guys to leave the area, promissing to rebuild/compensate for losses.... I don't think that Jack has a clue of what being a terrorist is / isn't.


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## BernDawg (6 Sep 2006)

It's absolutely astounding that any who is so blessed as to live in this great country could conceive such thoughts!


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## muskrat89 (6 Sep 2006)

This is shameful beyond all comprehension... I don't even know what to say


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## scoutfinch (6 Sep 2006)

I know what I am going to say... I am writing to my local NDP candidate to advise that I will be actively campaigning against him in the upcoming election on the basis of the NDP comments.  Despite there being a large military contingent here, the NDP elects a few seats every time.  While I won't campaing for another party, I will certainly campaign against the NDP.


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

Although the statement made by this Riding, and the silence of the Leader of the NDP, is outrageous and outright 'treasonous'; one should look at where this statement is coming from.  The Nanaimo-Cowichan riding association in British Columbia, the heart of 'drug induced' Hippie culture and US Draft Dodgers, all from the 1960's Vietnam Era.  If they are seriously to be taken at face value, they have probably done more harm to their own credibility than anything else their communist/socialist outlooks on life could have done past, present and future.  

The 'silence' of Jack Layton is an insult to this nation.  It is the actions of such 5th Columnists that will mean the defeat of our values and our endeavors in this War on Terror.  The fact that the Bloc is also leaning in this direction is a sign that the propaganda of our Enemy is working on the weak-minded of our nation.


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## geo (6 Sep 2006)

the block?

oportunists. They are simply leaning in a different direction than the Gov't... cause if they were leaning IN the gov't direction, then why bother voting for the separatist cause....

When you get down to it..... they dòn't have much of a choice.


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## patrick666 (6 Sep 2006)

Too bad it's the weak-minded who run the show..


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## FSTO (6 Sep 2006)

That resolution came from the riding (Nanaimo-Cowichan) that I live in. I will certainly be visiting their office to question their reasoning.


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## BernDawg (6 Sep 2006)

Please don't lump all of that area into that group.  There are many hard working, loyal Canadians that live in the Nanaimo/Cowichan area.  The NDP is just one party and one social demographic of that area.
     Yes Jack should speak-up and put this rhetoric to rest


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## Teflon (6 Sep 2006)

Here's how to contact the riding association resposible for the that piece of crap:

Riding Association
421 Milton St
Nanaimo BC V9R 2K9
Tel: 250-753-3371
suecreba@aquariusd.com
President: Sue Creba

As a recently returned "terrorist-like" CF troop I fully intend to contact them and express my thoughts on how they should present their ******* resolution and some safe places they can store it till the NDP gets to assume power here in Canada   (like that could ever happen!)

BETTER DEAD THEN NDP!  :skull:


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

And if you really want it; Jack Layton's:

http://www.ndp.ca/contact


Canada's NDP
300 - 279 Laurier West
Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5J9

Phone: 613-236-3613
Toll Free: 1-866-525-2555
Fax: 613-230-9950
TTY: 1-866-776-7742


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## vonGarvin (6 Sep 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> And if you really want it; Jack Layton's:
> 
> http://www.ndp.ca/contact
> 
> ...


Done 
I emailed and demanded that jack do two things.  First, apologise in person to the relatives of those killed over there, and second, for him to personally go to afghanistan and attempt to do the "reconstruction" he mentions, the kind of stuff that we are doing, in the face of adversity, including from mouthpieces like him back home.


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## patrick666 (6 Sep 2006)

Done and done. Thanks for the link, George.


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## odin (6 Sep 2006)

I've been on this planet a long time now and i've seen alot of conflict's in our own country and over the globe. I've said it before and i'll say it again... Give all the politicians weapons and send them in first. I'm sick and tired of them showing up for photo ops at the funearals of our guy's reading a speech someone else wrote.


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## Teflon (6 Sep 2006)

E-Mail Jack all you want as "party leader " he should say something! But I for one will contact those responsible for the proposed resolution and exercise my right to express my dis-belief at THIER terrorist  like rhetoric!

Riding Association
421 Milton St
Nanaimo BC V9R 2K9
Tel: 250-753-3371
suecreba@aquariusd.com
President: Sue Creba


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

Teflon said:
			
		

> E-Mail Jack all you want as "party leader " he should say something! But I for one will contact those responsible for the proposed resolution and exercise my right to express my dis-belief at THIER terrorist  like rhetoric!
> 
> suecreba@aquariusd.com
> President: Sue Creba



I tend to agree.  What kind of people could dream up this resolution?  I am sure it caught Jack Layton, no matter his political stripes, by surprise.  However 'blindsided' he may have been, it does behove him to make a statement; and not through one of his 'handlers' as has recently come out on the news.


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## manhole (6 Sep 2006)

My wife and I have also contacted the national NDP and the BC riding in question.   Outrageous remarks!   I  can hardly believe that a Canadian would say such a thing - even if they didn't agree with the mission on principle.   I would love to see those people on the front line over there!


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

fiddlehead said:
			
		

> My wife and I have also contacted the national NDP and the BC riding in question.   Outrageous remarks!   I  can hardly believe that a Canadian would say such a thing - even if they didn't agree with the mission on principle.   I would love to see those people on the front line over there!



I guess it is time to say "How soon we forget!"  Remember, the people who crafted this resolution are also the one's who have, without any doubt, been calling Canadian Soldiers "Baby Killers" and "Rapists" for years.  This is just another outrageous idea that they have come out with to promote their views of the Utopia they imagine they live in.


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## paracowboy (6 Sep 2006)

While I may not agree with what you say, I will defend to the death your Right to say it. 

But, I will also put a boot in your ass for saying it, you dumb bastard.


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## warspite (6 Sep 2006)

breathe in... breathe out... breathe in.... count to ten... be at peace with the world... life is but a dream within a dream.. oh whats the use.
Every time I think Jack in the box, the NDP and their mindless groups of yuppie followers can't say anything stupider or make me madder... they say something stupider and make me madder. Who even thinks this crap up... really it defies all logic and just maybe a law of physics.
Canadian troops acting like terrorist? Are they insane or do they just believe soldiers are just a bunch of mindless killers.
I am so sick of hearing these yuppies spew their idealogy onto the country. How much more damage will the NDP cause, I understand that the opposition parties are meant to balance the government of the day but these guy's are borderline criminal in their ideals.


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## paracowboy (6 Sep 2006)

allow to re-phrase, if you will. 

To the NDP and any who agree with this reprehensible insult:



> While I may not agree with what you say, I will defend to the death your Right to say it.
> 
> But, I will also put a boot in your ass for saying it, you dumb bastard.


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## Dissident (6 Sep 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> allow to re-phrase, if you will.
> 
> To the NDP and any who agree with this reprehensible insult:



I was about to say something similar.


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## BillN (6 Sep 2006)

And.....if you want to send old Jacko a personal email, here you go:  laytoj@parl.gc.ca
It's amazing how my blood pressure went back to normal just after I hit the send button. I can't wait for the next election when the local NDP candidate comes a knocking on my door.  ;D

Bill


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## cplcaldwell (6 Sep 2006)

[sarcasm]

Awww relax, it's a marvellous development!

Ya just need to do some lateral thinking. 

Here's how it goes.


Taliban are terrorists
Jack wants to negotiate with Taliban.
Cdn troops behaving like terrorists
 If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck , well it must be a terrorist! 
Jack wants to negotiate with terrorists
Cdn troops will soon get whatever they want, through negotiation with PM Layton. 

It's perfect! No more underfunding, since "we" "are" "terrorists", I suggest we all go out and buy an NDP party card and an orange t-shirt, convert our friends and relatives to radical whateverism, vote NDP and we shall have 1000 M1's in a month!

[/sarcasm]


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## North Star (6 Sep 2006)

Did we expect anything else from the NDP? 

BTW, the CAW and Buzz "I Support Paul Martin - and want a Senate Seat" Hargrove think they're too right-wing.


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## Teflon (6 Sep 2006)

Jack Layton (Muppet) Back peddling? Say it ain't so!!!  


Update:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2006/09/06/1807367.html

NDP downplays antiwar resolutions

Controversial policy

OTTAWA — NDP Leader Jack Layton’s office is downplaying controversial policy resolutions drafted by grassroots party members, including one that warns Canadian troops in Afghanistan risk “acting like terrorists.” 
The resolution and hundreds of others drafted by constituency associations are destined for the party’s policy convention which begins Friday. 

But Karl Belanger, a spokesman for Layton, said most of the more than 600 resolutions will likely not even end up being discussed. 

“There’s no reason whatsoever to start commenting on them,” Belanger said. 

According to convention rules, a series of sub-committees will study the resolutions and send a select number to the floor for debate. 

  

But on at least one major issue, Layton has adopted a position that mirrors what most of the party’s grassroots have been clamouring for. Several proposed policy resolutions call for the withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan and Layton made the same call last week. 

One resolution from the B.C. riding of Nanaimo-Cowichan prefaces its call for withdrawal with the caution that in the current conflict, “Canadian troops risk end up acting like terrorists, destroying communities and killing and maiming innocent people.” 

Other resolutions call for Canada to nationalize major industries, including telephone and cable companies, reject the monarchy, and withdraw from major organizations and treaties such as Norad, NAFTA and the WTO.


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## Teflon (6 Sep 2006)

Here's a link to the actual resolutions that the NDP will be voting on:

http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/ndp-resolutions1.pdf

1 B4 is the one this thread refers to but theres lots of good humour contain in there  ;D


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## Cardstonkid (6 Sep 2006)

Taliban Jack and his band of socialist sissies are a real comfort to the enemy. 

Check out www.rickmercer.blogspot.com for his witty resonse to all this NDP nonsense.

Here is a sample of what he has to say:

Agenda for Historic Peace talks between Jack Layton and Taliban leader - room 202 Casino Du Lac Leamy, Quebec

8:00 am – Jack Layton opening comments and welcome to assembled media and Taliban representative.

8:05 am – Taliban representative walks to podium, poses for photographs with Mr. Layton.

8:06 am – Taliban representative cleaves Mr. Layton in the forehead with giant axe.

8:08 am – Peace talks end.

8:10 am – Olivia Chow says she is "encouraged by talks” – announces plan to run for leadership of NDP.


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## Teflon (6 Sep 2006)

Another update:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060906.wndp0906/BNStory/National/

NDP riding association calls Canadian troops ‘terrorists'
SCOTT DEVEAU 

Globe and Mail Update 

A Vancouver Island NDP riding association has withdrawn parts a controversial resolution that calls for the federal government end its combat role in Afghanistan, after saying that the mission is being guided by the United States and that Canadian troops are acting like “terrorists.” 

While the original resolution, drafted by the Nanaimo-Cowichan riding association, had no legal status it was going to be presented at the party's national convention this weekend in Quebec City. The controversial preamble to the resolution was withdrawn Wednesday afternoon, after garnering national attention.

“We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism,” the riding association said in a statement Wednesday afternoon. 

Prior to it being withdrawn, however, the preamble did just that. 


Hell the NDP will not even stand up for what they stand up for!


As I said before:

BETTER DEAD THEN NDP


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## AJFitzpatrick (6 Sep 2006)

Teflon said:
			
		

> Here's a link to the actual resolutions that the NDP will be voting on:
> 
> http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/ndp-resolutions1.pdf
> 
> 1 B4 is the one this thread refers to but theres lots of good humour contain in there  ;D



Re: 1 B43 and 1 B7, no those aren't contradictory at all  :. This stuff reads worse than the resolutions put forward in student governments.


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## Cardstonkid (6 Sep 2006)

I wrote this letter to Jack. I am sure he will not read it and he will not care if he did, but hey, it ,ade me feel better.

Dear Mr. Layton,

If you have had any illusions of being the PM of this country I think your recent statements about “peace talks” with the Taliban have all but crushed your dream. I am sure you have heard all of the comparisons with such talk with the peace talks with the Nazi’s in WWII. I am sure they do not faze you anymore than critics fazed Chamberlain as he sought a “Final Peace” with Hitler. 

If Canada is made up of “men” like you then we will finally have peace. We will have the “peace of the grave” as political scientists like to call it, the peace where all the critics lay silent in mass graves. That is where those who stand for democracy and freedom will be if the Taliban can spread their vision of “happiness” to the rest of the world. 

I know you think that can never happen, you probably think the Taliban are simple barbarians and only a small segment of the Muslim majority. The truth is that it does not take a majority to make a revolution it only takes a fanatical minority and a cowed majority to make it happen. This war is happening now amongst the 1.2 billion Muslims. Once the fanatics have consolidated their power and harnessed the nuclear bomb they will dictate terms to the West. 

The war of ideas is only beginning; you have chosen to be the leader of the cowed Canadians. You have insulted the memory of all those that have fallen in this great cause and you give comfort and encouragement to our enemies. You mock George Bush or his “War of ideas” but we do face a war of ideals and of interests. It is in our interest to have freedom and democracy ascendant in the world, it is also one of our most precious core ideals that must be preserved. It will not be maintained with negotiations. It will be maintained with the force of arms. Once the Taliban and their ilk have realized they have nothing to gain by fighting they will find their way to the negotiating table with the Afghan government. Until that time we must fulfill our commitments, and yes that means killing scores of “them” and even losing some of our own. 

Recently the NDP appeared almost sensible at times. I guess your true nature could not be contained. I am ashamed of you and your party.


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## Blakey (6 Sep 2006)

> “We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism,” the riding association said in a statement Wednesday afternoon.


My response "Get fucked"


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## George Wallace (6 Sep 2006)

Teflon said:
			
		

> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060906.wndp0906/BNStory/National/
> “We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism,” the riding association said in a statement Wednesday afternoon.



I guess they don't believe their own 'printed' word.


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## onecat (6 Sep 2006)

It's the NPD, it's sad to see that a party that stands for the common person and social values... is so thick that it see that see defence is just as important. I use to be very left wing in so many things, but the NDP and most of the left have totally lost their way.


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## odin (6 Sep 2006)

i just got a reply back from this sue creba of the nanaimo riding .... what a load i'm going to post it so you can see her excuse and justification for those remark's that" were misinterpreted " HA !!


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## odin (6 Sep 2006)

suecreba@aquariusD.com>
>To: gerald davidson <dukedavidson40@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: your email
>Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:11:05 -0700
>
>   Cpl. Davidson,
>
>   Thank you for your email. You should know that our riding association has formally requested that the pre-amble from the motion on Afghanistan submitted to the 22nd Federal Convention of the New Democratic Party in Quebec City be removed.
>   We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism.
>   The very intent of the motion was the protection and safety of our Canadian Forces and we regret that the words chosen in the preamble have changed the focus away from why the current mission in Afghanistan is the wrong mission for Canada.
>This resolution was proposed out of concern that the combat situation in Afghanistan puts our soldiers in such a dangerous position and has resulted in so many deaths and injuries to Canadians and to innocent civilians.
>
>The remainder of the resolution will be considered as one of many on Afghanistan at our convention and may be debated and amended at that time.
>
>Sue Creba,  President Nanaimo-Cowichan Federal NDP Association


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## medicineman (6 Sep 2006)

AIC_2K5 said:
			
		

> Hahaha...wow
> 
> Jack and his possy never cease to amaze me. They once again buried their head in the sand on this one.



You sure it was the sand the head was buried in or is that code for somewhere else?  

MM


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## AIC_2K5 (6 Sep 2006)

I decided to phrase it the polite, political way.


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## a_majoor (6 Sep 2006)

suecreba@aquariusD.com

laytoj@parl.gc.ca

Resolution equating Canadian soldiers with Terrorists

I am writing to express my disappointment with you and your party over the draft resolution equating Canadian soldiers deployed to Afghanistan with terrorists.

The resolution itself betrays an astounding lack of understanding of the situation on the ground in Afghanistan, the overall mission being undertaken by the NATO alliance in Afghanistan or the roles our Canadian troops are playing as part of the mission.

Far worse is the reaction of Mr. Layton, the party and the riding association when confronted with this resolution. Rather than either apologize to the Canadian people for this horrible insult, or stand firm and defend your principles, Canadians were treated to silence, evasion and finally a cowardly withdrawal under cover of darkness, removing it from the web site without notice or explanation.

Certainly if Canadian service members can volunteer to stand for your right to make uniformed statements and outrageous insults even in the face of death, you could at least take some sort of stand in the comfort of your homes and offices that our soldiers are guarding on your behalf. 

Resolutions like this, draft or not, display the immaturity and lack of research and critical thought that seems to have become the hallmark of the NDP. Continuing on this path will ensure the NDP will continue to be a marginal player in Canadian politics, and I for one, will not miss the passing of the New Democrats in their current form.

Sincerely

Arthur Majoor


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## patrick666 (6 Sep 2006)

What he said.  ;D


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## Jed (6 Sep 2006)

+1 a_majoor


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## gnplummer421 (6 Sep 2006)

Yup, that's right exactly. I too felt compelled to write the NDP with regards to Jellyback Jack's comments, but my words were not quite as politically correct I'm afraid  ;D

Gnplummer421


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## manhole (6 Sep 2006)

yes......+ 10..........thank you, sir, for putting it so eloquently.


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## cameron (6 Sep 2006)

In a democracy people have the right to express their views, but while I have no problem with someone exercising their democratic right to question the mission in Afghanistan, to refer to Canadian soldiers, who have so far been carrying out an extremely dangerous and extremely difficult mission in the most honourable and noblest manner possible as "terrorists" is downright defamatory, insulting and insensitive.  Such remarks not only demean Canada's fighting men and women, they also rub salt in the wounds of those family members who are right now grieving over a son/daughter, father/mother, husband/wife or lover who made the ultimate sacrifice possible on a battlefield in Afghanistan. 

Our troops deserve better and so do their families, who right now should be recieving words of encouragement, compassion and solace, instead of having their loved ones or the memory of fallen loved ones insulted.  But many politicians are goldigging hoes who don't give a damn whose feelings they trample in their pursuit of the almighty vote.  Since the NDP have exercised their democratic right to insult Canada's soldiers, well I have just exercised my democratic right to insult the NDP, FUCK THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :mg:


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## mainerjohnthomas (6 Sep 2006)

My response to both the riding association and Jack Layton:
Sir,
     I had the honour of serving this country in uniform for many years.  In that time I had to listen to the NDP preach endlessly about their conception of universal human rights.  While I have found many of the stances worthy, I have found some of them to be unrealistic.  With this recent resolution where you are attempting to equate my brothers and sisters in arms as terrorists for their service in Afghanistan, I am forced to revisit my view on your human rights stances that I had previously deemed worthy.  It seems these universal human rights are only owed to those people who are in Canada, although how this makes them universal then becomes unclear.  For if our troops are being condemned as terrorists for attempting to free the Afghan people from a foreign sourced totalitarian regime that denied all human rights to women, and most human rights to everyone, then I guess the NDP doesn't believe the Afghan people have any rights at all.  Do not worry, for as much as you may hate the fact that it is necessary, those far wiser and nobler than you will remain on guard, that the rights you are so unclear on, will remain yours.  If you forget who we are, we are the ones marching under the flag, or lying beneath it.
                                    John T Mainer, Maple Ridge BC


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## armyvern (6 Sep 2006)

May 60 000 defamation lawsuits fall upon them.


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## Nicholas2004 (6 Sep 2006)

+1 to the person on another thread who called on the NDP to withdraw from Parliament.


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## 17thRecceSgt (6 Sep 2006)

Nicholas2004 said:
			
		

> +1 to the person on another thread who called on the NDP to withdraw from Parliament.



That was Paracowboy IIRC.

+10 to that, and +10 to a_majoor.

Even for the NDP, who I have no love/respect/time for, this was the lowest of lows.  Looking for a name to call them, can't find one bad enough.


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## Infanteer (6 Sep 2006)

mainerjohnthomas said:
			
		

> If you forget who we are, we are the ones marching under the flag, or lying beneath it.



Wow, that was good.


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## Trinity (6 Sep 2006)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> May 60 000 defamation lawsuits fall upon them.



I almost wish we could!  Finally hold politicians responsible for 
their irresponsible words.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Sep 2006)

Some progress, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

*NDP group drops controversial wording from antiwar resolution *  
Jennifer Ditchburn, Canadian Press, 6 Sept 06
http://www.cp.org/premium/ONLINE/member/elxn_en/060906/p090625A.html

OTTAWA (CP) - A group of NDP members has withdrawn controversial wording from an antiwar resolution that warned Canadian troops in Afghanistan risk "acting like terrorists." 

The move Wednesday by the Nanaimo-Cowichan riding association spares the party potential embarrassment at its national policy convention this weekend in Quebec City. 

The provocative wording was part of a preamble to a resolution that called on Canada to withdraw its troops from Afghanistan. 

It read: "No matter how noble our intentions, such as 'bringing democracy' or 'enabling peaceful development,' these goals cannot be achieved by violence when the 'enemy' cannot be distinguished from ordinary citizens. In such a situation Canadian troops end up acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people. In turn our troops become easy targets for others." 

The wording caught the attention of some Conservative blogs, landed on the front page of a national newspaper, and provided welcome fodder for right-wing radio hosts. 

Party Leader Jack Layton, who has come out publicly in favour of a withdrawal from Afghanistan, wouldn't comment on the matter. But his office emphasized that it was unlikely the resolution - among more than 600 being put forward by riding associations - would even make it to the convention floor for debate. 

On Wednesday afternoon, riding association president Sue Creba issued a statement saying members wished to withdraw the preamble. 

"We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism," Creba said. 

"The very intent of the motion was the protection and safety of our Canadian Forces and we regret that the words chosen in the preamble have changed the focus away from why the current mission in Afghanistan is the wrong mission for Canada." 

The main part of the resolution stands, including a line that suggests "foreign troops engaging in combat will make peace more difficult to achieve." 

There are a number of other notable resolutions, including ones pushing for Canada's withdrawal from NAFTA, Norad, and the World Trade Organization, as well as the nationalization of key industries such as cable and telephone. Another resolution calls for the removal of the Queen as Canada's head of state. 

According to convention rules, a series of sub-committees study resolutions and send only a select number to the floor for debate. 

Policy conventions held by the major federal parties often attract the most extreme views from within the organizations. Several grassroots resolutions at the last Conservative policy convention in 2005 that dealt with abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage never made it to the floor.


----------



## medicineman (6 Sep 2006)

Here's what I am sending to my MP (NDP - Victoria [no I din't vote for it]).

Mam,

     It was with a great deal of dismay that I today read of a resolution of some of your party bretheren from up Island that basically equated Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan with terrorists.  This also on a day that I found out a colleague is presently in Landstuhl after being wounded, (ironically) indirectly fighting for these persons' right to free speech.  Being a serving soldier who has been deployed to Afghanistan (among other places), and currently with friends and colleagues there in harm's way, I found these remarks to be extremely insulting.
     I have been in uniform for the better part of 20 years, having sworn an oath to defend the rights of the people of this country - rights a great majority of the population take for granted, including it would seem, members of your party.  I'm a firm believer in the right to free speech, however,  I take it a little personally when someone who has no clue what any of us do for a living, has likely never set foot inside the borders of some of the places we have been sent to on their behalf or at their behest and therefore has no idea what really has brought us to those countries in the first place, abuses that right of free speech to essentially give support to an enemy that finds those same rights to be reprehensible.  Ironically, our opponents  know our laws and freedoms likely better than you or I, and are hoping that those same freedoms will in the end be able undermine our soldiers from home - the comments from the Cowichan riding office are a wonderful example.
     I will conclude before this turns into a rant by saying this - if any of your colleagues want to bite off the hand that feeds them again, tell them to get on a plane, fly to Afghanistan and see for themselves all that has been done to try and help the country get back on it's feet and conversely, what our opponents there are trying to do to prevent that.  At least the comments will have some semblance of being informed.


Signed Me.

MM


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## PPCLI Guy (6 Sep 2006)

Meh - consider the source.  Like my momma always told me - clowns is as clowns does.


----------



## medicineman (6 Sep 2006)

Unfortunately, this circus should either stop smoking dope or share it with the rest of us so we're on the same wavelength.

MM


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## big bad john (6 Sep 2006)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060906.wndp0906/BNStory/National/home

NDP riding association calls Canadian troops ‘terrorists'
SCOTT DEVEAU 

Globe and Mail Update 

A Vancouver Island NDP riding association has withdrawn parts a controversial resolution that calls for the federal government end its combat role in Afghanistan, after saying that the mission is being guided by the United States and that Canadian troops are acting like “terrorists.” 

While the original resolution, drafted by the Nanaimo-Cowichan riding association, had no legal status it was going to be presented at the party's national convention this weekend in Quebec City. The controversial preamble to the resolution was withdrawn Wednesday afternoon, after garnering national attention.

“We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism,” the riding association said in a statement Wednesday afternoon. 

Prior to it being withdrawn, however, the preamble did just that. 

 “In such a situation, Canadian troops end up acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people,” the resolution stated. 

The resolution still calls on NDP Leader Jack Layton to continue pushing for a vote on Canada's role in the war in Afghanistan and for the country to adopt a peacekeeping role in that country rather than its current combat role.

The preamble and the resolution were drafted by a “respected” member of the association before being debated and adopted in April, according to Sue Creba, the riding association's president.

“The word terrorist is not used lightly. We are concerned about the injuries and the death toll we are seeing amongst those young soldiers, whom we support totally. We just don't think that's the best place for them,” she said earlier in the day. 

The preamble also suggested that Canada's foreign policy was being influenced by Washington.

“A combat role in Afghanistan is a no-win situation both for Canada and the Afghani people. Its only dubious value is to curry favour with the militaristic government of George W. Bush.”

Ms. Creba said she believed that that sentiment was echoed throughout the riding association.

“Well, it's quite clear that because we didn't have a debate in Parliament about [the mission] someone has influenced the government to instigate a foreign policy that the Canadian people didn't have a say in,” she said, adding that it is assumed within the riding association that that influence is being exerted from Washington.

“That's what we assume,” she said.

NDP spokesman Brad Lavigne said the party would not comment on any motion that has not been adopted by its membership. 

“Those comments of individual members remain just that, individual comments of the membership. They do not guide the New Democratic Party of Canada, its leader, or its caucus, until it is supported by delegates. Until then, these are not the opinion of the NDP,” he said. 

Ms. Creba said earlier in the day that she expected the resolution to resonate with other NDP delegates at the convention.

“It's not just our riding association. I would say [the sentiment is] echoed certainly through other Vancouver Island riding associations and probably across Canada. I would expect that it would be a topic for full discussion at our convention.”


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## Koenigsegg (6 Sep 2006)

> “A combat role in Afghanistan is a no-win situation both for Canada and the Afghani people. Its only dubious value is to curry favour with the militaristic government of George W. Bush.”



Wow, they certainly aren't looking for any new friends are they?
Terrorists, No-Win, Militaristic Government of Bush  - Bam Bam Bam!!
These guys are fast, I'm having a hard time keeping up.

I wonder how many tubes of toothpaste they go through after spouting such fecal matter.  If I may say so.


----------



## Kat Stevens (7 Sep 2006)

A question for the more legally savvy members:  Could a good lawyer not persue a class action suit on behalf of all present and past Afghanistan vets for slander, or defamation, or some other legalese term? This is just infuriating... time to cull the flock... :rage:


----------



## 1feral1 (7 Sep 2006)

And to think that IDIOTS like this are voted in by the locals they represent.

Go figure!

Totally disgusted, and at a loss of words, with the exception, how un-Canadian can you get!

They should be ashamed.

Wes


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## Devlin (7 Sep 2006)

Utterly disgusting, the lows they will go to know no bounds. 

Agreed with Kat, some sort of personal defamation lawsuit would be nice too see. Not sure how realistic it is but with the right lawyer and enough money...who knows. I'll stay in my lane and wait for whiskey to weigh in.


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## BEN 621 (7 Sep 2006)

I wonder if Jack has seen Rick Mercer's blog re the agenda for the NDP-Taliban peace talks, and realises how foolish his comments were on that. Did anyone notice Layton's fumbling & back-pedalling on that subject on Tuesday's interview on The National when Peter Mansbridged challenged Layton on his 'let's negotiate with the Taliban' bit?


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## Devlin (7 Sep 2006)

Dear Jack:

Below is all you need to know about diplomacy and The Taliban





all 671 grains of it


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## larry Strong (7 Sep 2006)

_“Well, it's quite clear that because we didn't have a debate in Parliament about [the mission] someone has influenced the government to instigate a foreign policy that the Canadian people didn't have a say in,” she said, adding that it is assumed within the riding association that that influence is being exerted from Washington.

“That's what we assume,” she said._ooze you lose.


Did we not have a debate in January? Guess they were the ones not in attendance....you snooze you lose.

They sure like that "***-u-me" word. ;D


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## warspite (7 Sep 2006)

Assumption = Fact
This must pass for logic in the NDP ;D


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## BEN 621 (7 Sep 2006)

What is it we say in the army about 'assuming'...? Something about making an a** out of.....

But I guess the NDP can be forgiven for not being familiar with the concept.


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## mainerjohnthomas (7 Sep 2006)

Below is my reply from Sue Creba of the riding association that drafted the offensive proposal.
All I can say is a shovelful of this is good for the garden.......

"You should know that our riding association has formally requested that the 
pre-amble from the motion on Afghanistan submitted to the 22nd Federal 
Convention of the New Democratic Party in Quebec City be removed.

We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in
any way associated with terrorism.

The very intent of the motion was the protection and safety of our Canadian
Forces and we regret that the words chosen in the preamble have changed the
focus away from why the current mission in Afghanistan is the wrong mission
for Canada.

This resolution was proposed out of concern that the combat situation in
Afghanistan puts our soldiers in such a dangerous position and has resulted
in so many deaths and injuries to Canadians and to innocent civilians.

Sue Creba,  President Nanaimo-Cowichan Federal NDP Association"


----------



## BEN 621 (7 Sep 2006)

Funny, I received the same chain letter reply within 5 minutes of sending Layton, Crowder & Creba a blast of s**t. So I sent them another blast back re. that they don't have the parts to reply individually or to do a formal TV/radio/print apology.


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## zipperhead_cop (7 Sep 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> And if you really want it; Jack Layton's:
> 
> http://www.ndp.ca/contact
> 
> ...



My letter to Smiling Jack:

Mr. Layton
While my personal political views have never ranged towards your party, I have also respected all parties views and their desire to promote their messages.  
However, your recent comments with regards to the military involvement in Afghanistan have ranged very close to being seditious at best, and very likely are contributing to the resolve of the Taliban to dig in and fight.  The comments from your party out of BC are downright treacherous, and if you think that calling our soldiers "terrorists" will not haunt you for years to come, you are sorely mistaken.  
Canada has always been a country that prides itself on helping the down trodden.  Who better to get our help than the people of Afghanistan?  How could we possibly think that help will be forthcoming in the form of aid and reconstruction, if the people sent to do the work get killed and the materials looted?  I cannot believe that you have no issue with leaving schools to be burned and teachers killed for the "sin" of instructing girls?  
Do you not see that sometimes hard situations require hard solutions?  Even if we keep the topic in the socialist realm, do you not recall that much of the labour movement came about as a result of new union members physically fighting with union "busters"?  What would have happened to the auto industry in the 30's if the workers had been satisfied with "talking" to the industry and hoping that their good intentions would reward them for their lack of action?  
Would you have us import all of the population of Afghanistan as refugees?  Or do you just feel that part of the planet is so forsaken that it just doesn't deserve our help?  
YOU supported this mission when the Liberals were in power.  Would you suggest to Canada that you made that decision blindly, thinking that Canadian troops would deploy to the birthplace of the Taliban and use their charming presence to bring about peace and prosperity?  
And can you not recognize the great gains being made?  One recent battle was a decisive Canadian victory as a result of information provided by an Afghan citizen.  Actual cooperation from the locals, which is pretty amazing considering the history in the region.  
If any country can do this mission, and is uniquely qualified for it, it is Canada.  We have the skill and the desire, so why can you not be satisfied with that?  
And what effect do you think you are having on the families of the soldiers?  Imagine being deployed to a war zone, and hearing that your family back home is no longer sure if you should be there because "Jack Layton says this is all wrong".  So now the soldier has to worry about being shot at or blown up, and also if his family will still be there when he gets back, or if he will be forced to abandon his military career upon his return.  
You appear to be well spoken and have the ability to speak passionately on a great many subjects.  Surely there are more worthy targets for your attention?  And please do not think you are being any sort of friend to the soldiers, because it appears that each and every one believes in what they are doing over there.  
Politicizing the military is a cheap shot at best, and a demoralizing disservice to our CF personnel.  I would ask you on behalf of all reasonable Canadians who see an actual need to do some hard work in somewhere other than this great country that you please refrain from denigrating the mission in Afghanistan.  
Thank you for your time and attention on this matter.   

I have every confidence that he will read it, take it to heart and provide me with a speedy response.  :


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## Osotogari (7 Sep 2006)

Actually, there are a couple of things I would like to see out of the two leftist conventions that will be occurring over the next few months:

1.  This "terrorist" motion passes at the ND convention
2.  Hedy Fry becomes Librano leader.

THAT would ensure both these parties drive away their centrists and therefore we get a decade or so of decent government for a change.

The only thing better would be if the roof on either/both convention venues collapeses.


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## PPCLI Guy (7 Sep 2006)

Wesley 'Over There' (formerly Down Under) said:
			
		

> And to think that IDIOTS like this are voted in by the locals they represent.
> 
> ......
> 
> They should be ashamed.



Or conversely (and perhaps more accurately) to think that the local IDIOTS voted in these Representatives...


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## PigPen (7 Sep 2006)

http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/ndp-resolutions1.pdf


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## vonGarvin (7 Sep 2006)

Not only are we "acting like terrorists", but we also partook in the "coup" in Haiti:
1B7:
WHEREAS the Canadian government, military and police participated in the February 29, 2004 coup that overthrew the elected government of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in Haiti; and
WHEREAS the de-facto ("interim") government of Haiti stands accused by international human rights organizations of killings and jailings of several thousands of supporters of the ousted government and of failing to provide the basic necessities of life for much of the country's population; and 
WHEREAS the United Nations-sanctioned occupation forces in Haiti, including Canada, have aided and abetted the illegal interim government, 
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the New Democratic Party call upon the Government of Canada to:

Demand the immediate release of Amnesty International prisoners of conscience former Prime Minister Yvon Neptune and folk singer Annette "So Ann" Auguste as well as all other political prisoners;
Use all possible means to being an end to killings and jailings by police and occupation forces aimed at the Haitian poor and their social and political movements;
Convene a formal Parliamentary inquiry into the role of Canada in the 2004 coup in Haiti, including the circumstances surrounding the 2003 "Ottawa Initiative on Haiti" conference and the role of Elections Canada in the illegal and unConstitutional presidential and legislative elections of 2006;
End the RCMP training of Haitian National Police, and remove all Canadian police and military personnel from Haiti
Announce Canada's support for the call of the governments of the Caribbean community countries (CARICOM) and the African Union for an investigation into the circumstances of President Aristide's removal;
Increase development aid to Haiti and ensure that all aid to Haiti be delivered in cooperation with the duly-elected and sovereign government of that country.
*TORONTO DANFORTH NDP
TRINITY-SPADINA NDP
DURHAM NDP
EDMONTON-STRATHCONA NDP*



OK: Toronto Danforth: Jack Layton
Trinitiy-Spadina: Olivia Chow
Durham: Bruce Rogers
Edmonton-Strathcona: Linda Duncan


Oh, and one of their keynote speakers will be none other than James Loney (aka: Hostage-boy).  Ask him how he feels about Military Personnel risking their lives to free him.  Ask him how he feels that if word got out that he is a homosexual, his life would have been in danger.  Ask him how it feels to be free thanks to brave men and women who sometimes use guns.

Oh, and they are also showcasing Tommy Douglas, "The Greatest Canadian".  Remember that farce on the cbc?  The NDP and CAW (IIRC) lobbied their membership to vote for TD.  People like Pierre Trudeau fell by the wayside for the poster-boy of the NDP.


----------



## snowy (7 Sep 2006)

All I have to say to Mr. Jack and his party NDP (Nimrods & Dumb group of Politicians) is,

"RUDE DUDES DON'T RULE"

as a civilian I am 100% behind the soldiers who are risking their lives for peace.

cheers snowy


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## ExSarge (7 Sep 2006)

I hope at least one of our senior civilian or military leaders will remind the NDP that although the Military strongly disagrees with the language and sentiment expressed in this resolution the members of the CF have sworn an oath to defend to the death their right to say it!


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## mainerjohnthomas (7 Sep 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> Not only are we "acting like terrorists", but we also partook in the "coup" in Haiti:
> 1B7:
> THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the New Democratic Party call upon the Government of Canada to:
> End the RCMP training of Haitian National Police, and remove all Canadian police and military personnel from Haiti
> ...






			
				von Garvin said:
			
		

> *TORONTO DANFORTH NDP
> TRINITY-SPADINA NDP
> DURHAM NDP
> EDMONTON-STRATHCONA NDP*


   OK, so sending troops when the UN asks is bad.....somehow doesn't fit with the "Canadian Soldiers should be Peacekeepers" mantra they like to chant.  Sending RCMP to teach the Haitian police to actually enforce the law and investigate crimes rather than acting as a political goon squad, again at the UN and Haitian request is bad.....still don't see how that can be seen as anything but a benefit to peace order and law in Haiti.  Make sure the election is run fairly using Elections Canada personnel, sounds like a terrible thing to do to a fledgling democracy; its so much easier to run rigged elections and claim popular support, so much harder to actually earn it.  Lastly, make sure that the aid gets to the people it is supposed to get to.....good luck doing that without troops on the ground.  Its good to see that the NDP doesn't feel constrained by its own policies, by international law, by logic or common sense.  They dare to go where no one has been dim enough to go before.  Don't you love Canadian politics?


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## GAP (7 Sep 2006)

My comments to the Globe & Mail

You (GAP GAP, from Winnipeg, Canada) wrote: Freedom of speach...funny, how ironic that is. The men and women of the Canadian Forces protect that right and many others, but to see the way it is exercised is pitiful. The armchair Generals are slobbering again, and we have to collect the sheepdipped NDP again before their bleatings get too annoying to all the left/right/left liberal thinkers. I know freedom has its' price, but do we have to keep letting them out of their cages? But then the alternative is do what the Taliban did on Sundays at their soccer stadiums...oh, did we forget that? Oh, you don't want to hear those nasty things, they get in the way of the oratory coming off the soapbox. Ain't Freedom Wonderful !!! 
Posted 07/09/06 at 8:53 AM EDT | Link to Comment


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## foerestedwarrior (7 Sep 2006)

I have to say, that this has gotten me a little upset.....I geuse I am a terrorist now....lucky me. Oh and this comment by Rick Mercer made me laugh pretty hard...



> Speaking of the short bus I see that Jack Layton has distinguished himself on the international front by coming up with a solution for the Afghanistan situation.


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## George Wallace (7 Sep 2006)

Is that Jack Layton making sales pitches on the tube for "Video Professor" ?    ;D


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## patrick666 (7 Sep 2006)

> Is that Jack Layton making sales pitches on the tube for "Video Professor" ?



Ha! I can't stop laughing... ahaha... Try NDP for free and if you're not satisfied you get a full tax refund!

Good form, George!  ;D


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## TMM (7 Sep 2006)

I'm still just as pissed at this as I was yesterday.

I've never been to Haiti but I know some of you worked there, but it doesn't take a genius to know that without boots on the ground aid won't go anywhere in that country. Right now, I am so glad I never renewed that NDP membership when it expired all those years ago.


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## aluc (7 Sep 2006)

fiddlehead said:
			
		

> My wife and I have also contacted the national NDP and the BC riding in question.   Outrageous remarks!   I  can hardly believe that a Canadian would say such a thing - even if they didn't agree with the mission on principle.   I would love to see those people on the front line over there!




You'd want these people serving along side you? I would love to see these people sterilised so they can't reproduce future NDPer's,  who's ideas would only serve to further erode the social fabric of our great nation! :blotto:  You sicken me  "Nancy Boy" Layton.


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## Lost_Warrior (7 Sep 2006)

> Ha! I can't stop laughing... ahaha... Try NDP for free and if you're not satisfied you get a full tax refund!



And he'll send you 10 DOLLARS!  ;D


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## Jarnhamar (7 Sep 2006)

Bullshit.

I can tell you for a fact Canadian commanders go out of their way to protect afghan citizens from harm.  I hear it over the radio every day.  I was actually surprised at how much of a priority commanders here place on doing their very best to avoid hurting the locals. 



> The resolution still calls on NDP Leader Jack Layton to continue pushing for a vote on Canada's role in the war in Afghanistan and for the country to adopt a peacekeeping role in that country rather than its current combat role.



Real clever. Peacekeeping in the middle of a war is a little difficult.  Peacekeeping is what comes after, hence the name peace keeper- implying peace in the first place.

I love the mountians and forrests in BC, can't say much for what appears to be the attitude out there.

I think it's GREAT that Mr Layton goes on TV and preaches about us pulling out. I'm sure the taliban catch that on the news and say "HEY guys, good job, the attacks we're doing are working lets keep it up! Lets kill more Canadians"

Thanks Mr Layton, lovely way to support us.


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## vonGarvin (7 Sep 2006)

TMM said:
			
		

> I'm still just as pissed at this as I was yesterday.
> 
> I've never been to Haiti but I know some of you worked there, but it doesn't take a genius to know that without boots on the ground aid won't go anywhere in that country. Right now, I am so glad I never renewed that NDP membership when it expired all those years ago.


I was there in 2004 as the Rifle Company 2IC (public knowledge: it was in the Globe and Mail: I cannot find the reference right now).  I must admit that I was impressed with the Haitians.  In spite of living in a big pile of crap, they had pride in themselves and in their families.  Abject poverty as I have never seen before in my life, and hope to never again see.
I was also impressed with the politicians who visited us there, namely David Pratt, former MND, and the then-Foreign Affairs minister, Bill Graham.  There were some other MPs who visited, but their names fail me.
All I can say is that "So-Ann" is a mouthpiece for the gangs in Haiti.  I can also say that there was true Anarchy when we arrived on 17 March 2004. (Yes, St. Patrick's day).  It wasn't a shooting war, but we gained the respect of the locals and we did a fairly good job (patting self on the back here, sorry).  
Anyway, as for a "coup d'etat", JL et al are hanging out too long in the hemp room.


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## medicineman (7 Sep 2006)

There seems to be no end to the crack these clowns are able to aquire and smoke is there?  I'm surprised they haven't tried to legalize the stuff in one of their many resolutions.

MM


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## RangerRay (8 Sep 2006)

I, for one, am not surprised.  This is standard fare for the NDP.

The NDP had real potential this year.  If they moderated their policies and message, they could have replaced the Liberals as the #2 party on the Hill.

Frothing extremism like this will keep them in the backbenches for a while.

Oh, and please don't lump these mouth-breathers in with the rest of British Columbia.  Fantasy Island is a land unto itself.


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## 17thRecceSgt (8 Sep 2006)

snowy said:
			
		

> All I have to say to Mr. Jack and his party NDP (Nimrods & Dumb group of Politicians) is,
> 
> "RUDE DUDES DON'T RULE"
> 
> ...



You have no idea how much our boys and girls would love to see THAT in the news rather than stupid NDP stuff.


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## 17thRecceSgt (8 Sep 2006)

As far as Mr Layton goes...personally I am glad he is around.

Every single time he opens his mouth and something comes out, it just makes ME feel smarter!  AND I am NOT all that smart.  

Oddly, his and the NDPs "ridiculousness" just makes the current Government look all the more stable and Canadian to me.  Keep up the good work Jerk Jack!


----------



## a_majoor (8 Sep 2006)

And the reply to my letter, no addressing of the issues or apology:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49833/post-439861.html#msg439861



> You should know that our riding association has formally requested that the pre-amble from the motion on Afghanistan submitted to the 22nd Federal Convention of the New Democratic Party in Quebec City be removed.
> 
> We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in
> any way associated with terrorism.
> ...


----------



## manhole (8 Sep 2006)

that is exactly the reply I got as well.......form letter sent to everyone.  I doubt if they care what the rest of us think anyway.........they live in their own little world.


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## vonGarvin (8 Sep 2006)

How about sending them a whole hockey-sock full of form complaints? ;D
"Dear Sir or Madam
I find your position on (fill in blank here) to be utterly reprehensible.  Please withdraw your position on it.
blah blah blah.
Jack Layton looks like the video professor
Yours truly
(fill in blank here)"


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## 17thRecceSgt (8 Sep 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> How about sending them a whole hockey-sock full of form complaints? ;D
> "Dear Sir or Madam
> I find your position on (fill in blank here) to be utterly reprehensible.  Please withdraw your position on it.
> blah blah blah.
> ...



ahhahahahahahahahahahaha   :rofl:


----------



## larry Strong (8 Sep 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> How about sending them a whole hockey-sock full of form complaints? ;D
> "Dear Sir or Madam
> I find your position on (fill in blank here) to be utterly reprehensible.  Please withdraw your position on it.
> blah blah blah.
> ...



Name a date and time ;D


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## Kat Stevens (8 Sep 2006)

The form replies are all very nice, I'm sure. However, especially in the electronic age, "what's said, cannot be unsaid".  My kids grasped this concept quite early in their character development, apparently nobody read to anyone in the NDP as a child, or Daddy never hugged them enough.... :rage:


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## peaches (8 Sep 2006)

After reading your garbage resolution, the only thing that I can say is that you, the NDP, and especially Jerk, OOPS Jack "The Taliban" Layton are complete and utter sacks of crap!!  You are disgrace to everything Canadian, you have NO IDEA what this country is or is all about.

This country has a proud military tradiontion, and we have never run from a fight and will not now.  The sons & daughters of Canadian mothers & fathers do not intentionally kill innocent people.  As an officer in the Canadian Forces I cannot even imagine giving such an order to intentionally kill civilians, or that Canadian troops would carry it out.  Of course with your treasonous ideology, perhaps you consider the Taliban & Al Queda innocent.

Another thing, we do NOT have a traditional role as neutral peacekeepers, we have always been on the side of democracy, human right and rule of law.  The Canadian Military has never supported dictators or despots. This crap idea that all we Canadians do is peace keep is just that, crap!!  (by the way, do you even know what peacekeeping is?? )  We were not "peacekeeping" on Vimy Ridge, at Passendale, on the beach at Dieppe, on 6 June 1944, or on Kapyong hill in Korea.  (do you even know what these places are, or what happened there??).  How come you NDPers always scream & yell about human rights, rule of law, free speech, but when it comes down to REALLY doing anything about it, you can't run fast enough the other way!!

What has the Canadian Military done for Canada and the Canadian people, we gave you your country, we protected and still protect your country, we give you a safe place to be an idiot!

What has the NDP done for Canada; lets see, BC, NDP gov't in power (champions of the poor & oppressed).  East Vancouver still full of homeless, NDP did nothing, blamed everyone else.  Same story in Ontario with Mr Rae, despite NDP rule, people still poor & homeless, blamed someone else.  You are advocates for a health care system that does not work.  Standing in line for 6 months to see a specialist is not a health care system that works.

The only good thing you do is steal vote from the Libs, I do thank you for that.   



peaches


This is an e-mail I just sent ref these NDP crap.  Normally I do not get too shook up about the NDP loosers, but this went too far........


(dude, I'm taking your name out for PERSEC reasons


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## Juvat (8 Sep 2006)

Although I agree with peaches sentiment, the tone of the e-mail is leaning much on the crude side and could do with a bit more professionalism a la A_Majoor.  Either way you will probably receive the same response as all of us from the party HQ.  Standard forms all around!

Cheers


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## patrick666 (8 Sep 2006)

I have yet to even receive a response - I guess asking for a public apology was a bit too much for the Video Professor. I want my 10 dollars!


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## North Star (8 Sep 2006)

Peaches,

Some advice - leave your rank out of all public postings. While I agree with your letter, you could technically get smacked under some rules in the QR&Os. Awhile back I wrote a letter to the National Post and Liberal Party for the "Soldiers Ad", and was pretty much left alone because I wrote in in my capacity as a private citizen ("Mr"). I was warned off a bit, but I was spared a flogging by a wet noodle by omitting my rank. 

The last thing you need is a PAff guy droning on at you from his cubicle that you've been bad - takes away from drink'n and fight'n time.


----------



## peaches (8 Sep 2006)

Yes, you are all right.  Thanks for the good advice.  I normally do not get took spun-up about these things, but I have had enough of this nonsense.  I can't even watch the TV anymore without getting sick.  Every day I work with amazing people here in the CF, and seeing them bashed like this is just too much, enough becomes enough.


----------



## vonGarvin (8 Sep 2006)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Name a date and time ;D


For me to do that, wouldn't that be inciting to sedition or something?  You know, if I said "Saturday, 9 September at 1300 EDT", that would be, like, SO WRONG, dude!
 8)


----------



## Reccesoldier (8 Sep 2006)

My message to Jack:

Mr. Layton, having served this country for 21 years I am completely and utterly disgusted by your party's draft resolution which equates Canadian Soldiers to terrorists.  

But my disgust does not stop there.  Your party has long claimed the high ground when it comes to the subject of human rights, but your desire to seek negotiations with the fascist Taliban in Afghanistan is one hundred and eighty degrees out of phase with any semblance of human rights.  

There is no negotiating with fascists and terrorists, they do not want to live in peace, they do not just want to be left alone, they don't believe in democracy, communism, sexual equality, liberalism, human rights or any fundamental freedoms. They want to destroy any and all ways of life, living, government, thought, history, art, play and religion that are not their own.

Terrorism is the Nazism of our time and just as Chamberlain was wrong to try to appease Hitler you, should you pursue this course of appeasement, will go down in history as a fool and traitor, not only to so called Canadian ideals but to Humanities ideals.


----------



## William Webb Ellis (8 Sep 2006)

NDP=


----------



## McG (8 Sep 2006)

big bad john said:
			
		

> The preamble and the resolution were drafted by a “respected” member of the association before being debated and adopted in April, according to Sue Creba, the riding association's president.
> 
> “The word terrorist is not used lightly.





			
				Sue Creba said:
			
		

> We in no way intended to suggest that our Canadian Forces personnel were in any way associated with terrorism.


Hmm.  What did they hope the word "terrorist" would suggest when being applied to our soldiers and if the choice was not taken lightly, how did they so poorly predict how people would read the statement?


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## buddyhfx (8 Sep 2006)

My wish would be to see some of the boys and gals from Valcartier attend this convention in uniform this week-end in Quebec city. Just make an act of presence in the parking lot and try to get some sort of explaination and or apologies.....


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## zipperhead_cop (8 Sep 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> Hmm.  What did they hope the word "terrorist" would suggest when being applied to our soldiers and if the choice was not taken lightly, how did they so poorly predict how people would read the statement?



That's just taking a page from the Jean Cretin book of denial.  And all he did was put into real life application Shaggy's song "It wasn't me".  If you say it wasn't so long enough, all of a sudden it isn't so.  Since the media are all too thrilled to kowtow to the left, the issue ends up fading.  Pretty standard stuff.


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## Centurian1985 (8 Sep 2006)

Amazing how big a response you can get from poor choice of words.  

Unfortunately I live in this riding.  Think I will go by in person next Monday... 

Other than that its mind-boggling how the word 'terrorist' continues to get used so inappropriately.  And further, that so many people with such a high level of education in the NDP are unable to conceive of the consequences of what they say.


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## armyvern (8 Sep 2006)

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> There is no negotiating with fascists and terrorists, they do not want to live in peace, they do not just want to be left alone, they don't believe in democracy, communism, sexual equality, liberalism, human rights or any fundamental freedoms. They want to destroy any and all ways of life, living, government, thought, history, art, play and religion that are not their own.



Excellent. I would add that the Taliban is also extremely interested in destroying labour. And business small and large. Unless of course that business is the planting of their poppy fields producing the sale of opium, the proceeds of which the Taliban used to support their regime and arms supply. No doubt the Taliban's 'boondoggle" also included the funneling of these funds to terrorist training camps et al in order to directly support the anilihation of infidels, irregardless of which politcal party those infidels happen to subscribe to.


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## medicineman (8 Sep 2006)

Caught this while reading the news - courtesy of Canoe via the Calgary Sun.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Rodriguez_Jose/2006/09/08/1813725.html

Oops, sorry 'bout that. Didn't mean it. Just got all caught up in the emotion of it all, you know. 

Now, can someone pass the bong and cue up Kumbaya for the communal sing-a-long. 

Yes, on the eve of the fifth anniversary of the deadliest terror attack in history, only the New Democrats could be so self-centred and out-of-touch as to call our military "terrorists." 

A resolution that was to be put forth at the party's annual convention did just that until one of the sharper butterknives in the party kitchen decided it was in poor taste. 

The original motion went like this: "No matter how noble our intentions, such as 'bringing democracy' or 'enabling peaceful development,' these goals cannot be achieved by violence when the 'enemy' cannot be distinguished from ordinary citizens. In such a situation Canadian troops end up acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people. In turn our troops become easy targets for others." 

The wording was part of a preamble to a resolution calling for Canada to withdraw its troops from Afghanistan. 

Now, it's a plank of democracy that we should all be free to question and debate our involvement in Afghanistan or any other matter. 


Only ruthless totalitarian regimes like the Taliban would deny the New Democrats that right. 

But insulting the men and women of our Armed Forces who literally put their lives on the line to protect our way of life, is just sick. 

Even for those who live life within the unrealistic confines of feel-good platitudes such as "war is bad" or "can't we all just get along," this is taking it too far. 

Perhaps the good folks at the Nanaimo-Cowichan riding association -- who put the original motion forward -- suffer short or very selective memories. 

Maybe it's time for a quick refresher on exactly why we're in Afghanistan. 

Nearly five years ago, the free world was sucker-punched by a bunch of organized scumbags who were trained and funded by a chief scumbag with the blessing of Afghanistan's Taliban. 

They used that country as the command and training centre from which to disperse hatred on the world. 

And, a lot of them would love nothing more than to go back to their cosy little cave and plot destruction to feed their twisted beliefs. 

So, Canada, and indeed the world, was left with two options: 

a) Leave the Taliban be and hope they'll change their minds about supporting terrorists, or b) go in there and kick the crap out of them before they strike again. 

Canada chose the latter and, yes, it's important to debate the merits of our role in this war. 

But no matter where we stand on this important issue, equating our troops to terrorists is an insult to the 32 men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice to ensure the seeds are not planted for the next Sept. 11. 

Sorry, just doesn't cut it. 

It'd be like calling New Democrats spineless teat-sucking socialists and then apologizing for it. 

The damage is already done.


MM


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## HollywoodHitman (8 Sep 2006)

Writing a nastygram to the NDP office in my city as we speak. Putting up with Jack Layton and his band of merry idiots generally keeps me simmering beneath the surface......

As the terrorists always say, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".....If the NDP tried to speak out like this in Afghanistan.......Hmmm

The NDP's stupidity at least shows consistency. I guess for that they should feel ok about themselves. Or maybe they should just hurl themselves off the nearest cliff. Will they NEVER stop?


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## geo (8 Sep 2006)

when it comes election time
will say, Sorry Jack, didn't vote for ya!


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## Armymedic (8 Sep 2006)

Can we nominate Mr Jose Rodriguez for Army.ca Journalist of the Year Award?


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## cplcaldwell (8 Sep 2006)

It's really rather sad actually. 

The NDP have never been a powerhouse on foreign policy issues but this bunch has taken them to nadir.

The point that this resolution was proposed indicates a strong undercurrent of pathological anti-military thinking in the NDP. These thoughts are all across Canada, but held by a pathetic few, IMHO. Yet this attitude finds refuge in the NDP.

I am just waiting for the day, which I think will soon come, when I am in uniform and will be called a "baby killer". 

It's too bad. The NDP does serve purpose in Canada, but it seems the party is being hijacked by Vancouver Island tree huggers and Tronna silver spoon socialists. This is not, I think that all NDP are "right out of 'er "

I was just watching CTV NewsNet and they were interviewing Garry Doer, the Premier of Manitoba. He was forthright and honest, to paraphrase he said he did not think the mission was properly balanced. He conceded the need for a combat posture as the Talibs abnd AQ were really nasty people.  

He was quite clearthat any attempt to conjoin the concept of terrorism and the CF was unacceptable. He would have nothing to do with it. He made it quite clear that Shilo and Winnipeg bases were integral parts of Manitoba and he had nothing but praise and respect for the troops of II VP battlegroup and for the efforts of 17 Wing.

NDP are certainly left wing, and I don't know a lot about Garry Doer, but if these comments are indicative of how the guy thinks, it would appear that there is some hope for the NDP and that this pathological anti-CF minority and the silly musings of Smilin' Jack are an aberration. 

But then again, maybe I'm suckin canal water through bodily orifices on this one.......


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## RangerRay (8 Sep 2006)

What surprises me is that people are shocked by this.

This kind of cr@p is standard fare for the New Duncecap Party.

EDIT:

cplcaldwell,

The NDP in Saskatchewan and Manitoba tend to be more pragmatic and less dogmatic than the federal party.


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## 17thRecceSgt (9 Sep 2006)

The only good thing I think I can say at this moment in time is thank god that there were men and women brave enough in the past, the present, and in the future, that have what it takes to pony up and defend the freedom of speech these folks have and enjoy without actually thinking about what that cost this country and our Armed Forces, their families...over the years.

Oh..and...like they say..."there's one in every crowd".

Lots of back-strokin' going on in the NDP canoe now.  Too little.  Too late.  SUM UP!


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## nowhere_man (9 Sep 2006)

Did anyone read that NDP party convention thing that is the biggest waste of internet space ever. Theses guys are frigging nuts. like pulling out of NORAD and recognosing Hamas and giving them money again. They have no sense of realty. I think they want us to be like Switzerland except we have peacekeepers and give all our money to poor nations. I'm not 18 but there not going to get my vote as long as i live


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## maniac78 (9 Sep 2006)

Manitoba Premier Gary Doer got delegates fired up with his warning that in the last 12 months, Canada has moved backwards on the "3 Ks — kids, Kelowna and Kyoto."

NDP down with the KKK and the Taliban.


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## HDE (9 Sep 2006)

I believe the NDP does serve a purpose of sorts; it gives the angry lefties a place to go and hang out with kindred spirits.  They stand around and declare that they're real players  on the political landscape and the rest of us are gonna figure that out sometime soon.  Meanwhile the real parties get on with business.
I've been a Steelworker for 20 plus years and, apparently, the NDP is my party of choice.  The reality is that the "union leadership" are never able to deliver at election time.  Jack knows it, Buzz Hargrove knows it, Sid Ryan knows it.  Mostly the NDP is an empty shell   ;D


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## 17thRecceSgt (9 Sep 2006)

Hey, maybe we should have ANOTHER thread here...after reading this...

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20060908%2fNDP_Afghanistan_060909&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True

Okay and the new thread should look something like this...

_*"Canadian Troops Call NDP Idiots"*_

Takers?


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## patrick666 (9 Sep 2006)

Idiots? I have some other, choice, words which can only be described as ****** ****** *****. 

_Layton wants all 2,000 Canadian soldiers removed from the violent Kandahar province by February. But he favours keeping the few dozen Canadians currently working on reconstruction efforts in safer northern areas. _ 


That's a great idea, Jack. Remove the security force and let Canadians be slaughtered WITHOUT a fight. I think Kat said it best, Neurologically Damaged Potheads.


----------



## Trinity (9 Sep 2006)

> Manitoba's NDP Premier Gary Doer, who addressed delegates on Friday, told CTV Newsnet he supported the mission in Afghanistan five years ago and remains committed to it today.
> 
> "This is a UN exercise. The Taliban that we're fighting basically protected the terrorists that were involved five years ago in the 9-11 attack -- which included the killing of innocent victims from Manitoba -- and so I don't like any anti-military talk," he said.



At least ONE  NDP person has some brains!


----------



## larry Strong (10 Sep 2006)

Sun, September 10, 2006


   Nutty NDP reveals its true stripes
By IAN ROBINSON, CALGARY SUN


  
The New Democratic Party used to be kind of cute, the way a precocious five-year-old is cute. 

Fun to listen to, but you don't want to put them in charge of the household accounts. 

New Democrats believe in preposterous things, but at least you used to be able to say they had good intentions. 

No more. 

After this week, having a membership in the New Democratic Party ought to be considered evidence of serious mental illness. 

In a sane society, we would round these people up with cattle prods as the danger to society that they are, and put them behind barbed wire in the High Arctic and put them to work drilling oil wells in protected wildlife preserves. 

These people are crazier than an outhouse rat. 


If they aren't already high -- among other things, they want to legalize marijuana, which I think would take most of the fun out of it -- they've fried their brains. 

They are nuttier than a pecan pie. 

A series of draft resolutions to be debated at the party's annual convention in Quebec City this weekend reveals important and vile things about those defiling the name of a party that once stood for noble ideals -- albeit ideals that never work in a real-world situation. 

New Democrats are socialists and socialism is Communism-Lite. 

Anybody who paid attention to world events over the last century knows Communism -- and its wimpy handmaiden socialism -- don't work. 

Every country that has a seriously socialist or Communist government is totalitarian to some degree, and screws up the economy so that goods and services to ordinary people are in short supply. 

They are corrupt and evil and deny the aspirations of their best and brightest. 

Socialism and communism operate under the assumption that people who are good at something and earn money for it are wicked and those who do not are noble and that the government should steal the earnings of achievers and give it to underachievers. 

In short: They believe capitalism sucks. 

And they're right. 

Capitalism DOES suck. It is harsh and cruel and mean and yet it beats the crap out of whatever is in second place in terms of creating and distributing wealth to ordinary people. 

As long as New Democrats talked about "fairness" (for non-achievers) and equity (which translates roughly as 'eat the rich and middle classes') they could be considered to have a constituency, albeit one completely bereft of intelligent understanding of the nature of the world. 

They have now, under Smirkin' Jack Layton, a pathetic political opportunist who has never held a real job for any length of time -- unless you consider university professor and politician real jobs -- revealed their true insanity. 

One resolution that has since been wisely rescinded -- referred to our valiant troops serving in Afghanistan as propping up "a U.S. puppet government ... acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people." 

Another calls for a "day of Remembrance" in November for transexuals. 

What kind of political party would defile the term "Remembrance" in the month of November -- for those New Democrats reading this, here's a helpful hint: Nov. 11 is Remembrance Day, the day we sanctify the sacrifices of the nation's warriors, not a bunch of gender-confused whack-jobs bent on self-mutilation of their genitals -- with a call for this kind of nonsense? 

They also want to nationalize Alberta's oil industry. Not to mention the banks. And newspapers and TV stations. 

As the convention goes on today, many of the loony proposals will no doubt have died on the vine. 

But we shouldn't forget who these people really are. 

And the danger they represent to our nation, prosperity and well-being. 

Not to mention any future I have in the newspaper business -- the NDP takes over communication industries, I'm pretty sure I'm going to wind up behind barbed wire in the High Arctic.


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## JackD (10 Sep 2006)

Actually you wonder what old Tommy Douglas would have said about the current NDP party - he was a socialist - yet also patriot...


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## skip291 (10 Sep 2006)

Here is a copy of an email I sent to CTV news. Maybe we have to do more than bitch. Maybe we have to campaign to educate the non CF members who dont know any more than what they see on TV. I know we cannot comment, but I am sure we can the word out somehow, any suggestions? 

I think it is about time for CTV to do a news story on the war in Afghanistan, as seen by members of the military who are upset by the NDP's views on the war and the damage they are doing to the Canadian Forces who are struggling to rebuild their reputation after years of ridicule and neglect. We are one of the smartest and most respected military forces in the world. It is sad to see we are not seen as that in the eyes of our citizens. NDP reference to CF running risk of being seen as terrorists, has outraged CF members throughout the country. I am sure you would be able to recieve major support in a news story such as this, with respect to those who have been there and those who are here at home. We have members of our forces fighting a war in Afghanistan, let us not fall victim to the political wars at home. The casualties will be the thousands of Canadians who are misled into once again turning their backs against those who fight and represent Canada. Those soldiers, sailors and airmen who earn the respect of those who believe we live in the greatest country on earth.


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## odin (10 Sep 2006)

Anyone else get a e-mail from one Hans w. Lussenburg ?


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## George Wallace (10 Sep 2006)

UNB Faculty of Forestry and Environmental Management Graduate?    NOPE!


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## Wookilar (11 Sep 2006)

I also sent a lengthy letter to the video professer, the friends of hemp in the Cowichan riding association and my local riding association. It is way to long to post here, but not too long to loose them. I hope they actually read it, it took me long enough to write it in as polite a manner as I could. After all, if they are going to be calling us "terrorists," the least they can do is listen when we object.

And this line of ... it was just unfortunate wording that we have since removed....crap, is just that. Crap. That resolution was carefully worded to get maximum attention to make onto the convention floor. The only reason the preamble was removed was the negative sh#t-storm that it stirred up, not any amount of resonable thinking.

I wonder if anyone from the union in Scugog was at the convention? Seems right up their alley.


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## odin (11 Sep 2006)

>I have a nephew currently in service but even as an 'ordinary Canadian' I was appalled by the statement of our local NDP riding association.  I wrote the following to our MP Jean Crowder and disseminated it to all MP's in Ottawa.  The letter to her is followed by 'letter to the editor' sent to many newspapers across Canada.
>
>I hope the NDP will pay dearly for their mean spirited and seditious statement.  They are not acting in Canada nor Afghanistan's best interests and I firmly believe they are aiding and abetting our enemies.  God bless you and keep you and your comrades safe - you make me and millions of others very proud.
>
>Randy O'Donnell
>Nanaimo, B.C.
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:51 AM
>Subject: Cdn. Soldier/Terrorists?
>
>
>Dear Ms. Crowder;
>
>As my Member of Parliament you have an obligation to represent all of your constituents.  People throughout the riding of Nanaimo-Cowichan are subject to national embarrassment and shame due to your own riding association president and voting members who declared as part of a resolution to your national convention, that "Canadian troops end up acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people."
>
>According to a story by John Ivison in the National Post, "Jean Crowder, the NDP MP for Nanaimo-Cowichan, also refused to comment on the resolution before it has been debated at the convention."  In other words, unless and until it is debated at the convention, the statement has no reality and need not be acknowledged.   Yet your riding association president Sue Creba, "said she believed that that sentiment was echoed throughout the riding association."
>
>So what exactly are voters to believe?  That Jean Crowder supports Canadian soldiers in whatever role to which they are assigned?  Or that she, like her riding association believe that in combat, Canadian soldiers descend into barbarity, "destroying communities (and) killing and maiming innocent people"?  I don't think you can have this both ways, Ms. Crowder.  If you agree with your riding association and your president, I think you have an obligation to say so publically.  If you do not, then you have an obligation to dismiss your riding executive as a statement of your support for the Canadian military.
>
>Needless to say, the outrageous statements of your riding association will have been noted and appreciated by our enemies in Afghanistan and an opportunity to propagandize, while at the same time discouraging and damaging the morale of our own soldiers who so badly require our support.
>
>I'll look forward to your response regarding this very serious issue.
>
>Randy O'Donnell
>Nanaimo, B.C.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dear Editor;
>
>Having the Nanaimo-Cowichan riding make news across Canada might normally be a cause for pride.  But instead, major stories in both the Globe and Mail and on the Charles Adler radio program have resulted in embarrassment and shame for most Nanaimo residents.  In a resolution to their national convention, the Nanaimo-Cowichan NDP Riding Association declared that "Canadian troops end up acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people."
>
>This was not a bit of errant hyperbole, because according to the Globe and Mail story, riding resident Sue Creba went on to say that "the word terrorist is not used lightly".  Given that the resolution was debated and adopted by the riding association, it clearly shows that despite public declarations to the contrary by NDP leader Jack Layton, the rank and file of Nanaimo not only do not support our military, they consider them violent agressors and occupiers.
>
>Occasionally, the words designed for public consumption slip away and the real sentiments are shown for all the world to see.   This is clearly such a case.   I'm saddened and embarrassed that Nanaimo has been portrayed as unsympathetic and uncaring towards our servicemen and women.  And I'm concerned that such statements by those whom Lenin termed "useful idiots" will be carried overseas, giving succor and encouragement to those who intend us harm, yet are being kept at bay by the Canadian soldiers the Nanaimo NDP so obviously disdain.
>
>With another election likely to occur in the next year or two, I trust that even traditional NDP supporters will consider whether they can continue supporting a party which sees our military not as protectors but as the deliberate killers of innocents.
>


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## Kat Stevens (11 Sep 2006)

Hail, odin!  Stick it to em....and people wonder why I downplay my BC upbringing.... :-[


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## Pte_Martin (11 Sep 2006)

Good Job! hopefully the rest of Canada will see how stupid the NDP is and make sure they see their vote count go down next election!


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## IN HOC SIGNO (11 Sep 2006)

Here's the thing though.....If Jack is mouthing this stuff, how many focus groups and public opinion polls have convinced him that this is a position that might resonate with Canadian voters? They aren't smart enough to be original; this stuff has some traction or they wouldn't be saying it!
I mean it's scary how ignorant your average Canadian is about this stuff and how ignorant your average young person is too. All these kids that went back to University this week are being taught by wooly headed egg heads that listen to this crap. 
My eldest just returned to Saint Mary's here in Halifax this week and he is appalled at how much disinformation is out there on the Campus. (He's a military kid so he knows better...due to listening to his old Pater rant endlessly no doubt!!)


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## George Wallace (11 Sep 2006)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> Here's the thing though.....If Jack is mouthing this stuff, how many focus groups and public opinion polls have convinced him that this is a position that might resonate with Canadian voters? They aren't smart enough to be original; this stuff has some traction or they wouldn't be saying it!
> I mean it's scary how ignorant your average Canadian is about this stuff and how ignorant your average young person is too. All these kids that went back to University this week are being taught by wooly headed egg heads that listen to this crap.
> My eldest just returned to Saint Mary's here in Halifax this week and he is appalled at how much disinformation is out there on the Campus. (He's a military kid so he knows better...due to listening to his old Pater rant endlessly no doubt!!)



I guess this story may be an answer to some of those questions.....



			
				zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I just had a most interesting experience.
> My telephone rang, and much to my surprise it was a survey company calling during the dinner hour.  Normally this would meet with a standard ending, but this time the woman had a nice Brit accent and was able to hold my attention.  She rhymed off the company that she worked for, and stated that it was "one of the largest public survey companies in Canada" but I'll be buggered if I can remember who it was.  What was held my interest was that she asked me if I would be interested in conducting a survey with regards to Canada's current in involvement in Afghanistan:
> A.  "Why, absolutely"
> Q.  "Would you say that you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat don't support or strongly don't support Canada's mission in Afghanistan to fight terrorism and elements of Al Qaeda?"
> ...


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## Blakey (11 Sep 2006)

*69


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## Cloud Cover (11 Sep 2006)

Ipsos Reid.  They stopped calling me last year after I gave my postal code to them as K1A 1H3. [privacy commissioner's postal code].


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## Black Watch (11 Sep 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> I know what I am going to say... I am writing to my local NDP candidate to advise that I will be actively campaigning against him in the upcoming election on the basis of the NDP comments.  Despite there being a large military contingent here, the NDP elects a few seats every time.  While I won't campaing for another party, I will certainly campaign against the NDP.


so do I


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## Zell_Dietrich (12 Sep 2006)

Well good for them!   Honestly if they only want to deal with people who think like themselves,  and only 'see' things that support their own opinion...  well they'll just have to learn how quickly things go bad for ignorant elitists.  Personally I find reality better than any self constructed paradigm I could make... but hey we'll see what happens eh?


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## The_Falcon (12 Sep 2006)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> Well good for them!   Honestly if they only want to deal with people who think like themselves,  and only 'see' things that support their own opinion...  *well they'll just have to learn how quickly things go bad for ignorant elitists.*  Personally I find reality better than any self constructed paradigm I could make... but hey we'll see what happens eh?



Unfortunately the "ignorant elitists" rarely if ever learn anything.  They'll spin horseshit into hamburger and tell you its wonderful to eat, or they just blame the problems on someone else.


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## warspite (12 Sep 2006)

Ignorant Elitists have that lovely talent of being able to ignore logic and common sense.
Somehow Darwins theory of evolution seems to have a loophole. ;D


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## peaches (12 Sep 2006)

I actually received a response from MS Sue Creba from the BC Riding Assoc.  I sent a rather terse (see pg7) e-mail to her the other day ref this whole thing.  She e-mailled me back next day saying that the whole thing was taken out of context, that they were trying to protect Canadian troops.  She did not say sorry, but she responded.

I have just had enough of these NDP twits.  There were some NDP students showed up at my dads retirnement dinner in Winnipeg last year (39 yrs CF) and caused some greif.  They complianed to the hotel staff about letting us use the dinning hall for his kind, graffit on poster, idiot comments.  Turn's out they came from little sis's university.  Hotel staff put the run on them as did my uncle.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (12 Sep 2006)

peaches said:
			
		

> I actually received a response from MS Sue Creba from the BC Riding Assoc.  I sent a rather terse (see pg7) e-mail to her the other day ref this whole thing.  She e-mailled me back next day saying that the whole thing was taken out of context, that they were trying to protect Canadian troops.  She did not say sorry, but she responded.
> 
> I have just had enough of these NDP twits.  There were some NDP students showed up at my dads retirnement dinner in Winnipeg last year (39 yrs CF) and caused some greif.  They complianed to the hotel staff about letting us use the dinning hall for his kind, graffit on poster, idiot comments.  Turn's out they came from little sis's university.  Hotel staff put the run on them as did my uncle.



I know this is a very "un-Padre-like" thing to say but I'll say it before paracowboy does......I HOPE HE GOT SOME THROAT PUNCHES IN BEFORE THEY GOT TO THE DOOR!!!!


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2006)

peaches said:
			
		

> I actually received a response from MS Sue Creba from the BC Riding Assoc.  I sent a rather terse (see pg7) e-mail to her the other day ref this whole thing.  She e-mailled me back next day saying that the whole thing was taken out of context, that they were trying to protect Canadian troops.  She did not say sorry, but she responded.



I don't suppose her response was the same as she sent several others?



			
				mainerjohnthomas said:
			
		

> "You should know that our riding association has formally requested that the
> pre-amble from the motion on Afghanistan submitted to the 22nd Federal
> Convention of the New Democratic Party in Quebec City be removed.
> 
> ...


----------



## peaches (12 Sep 2006)

I have no doubt that I would have injured somebody, unfortunatly (or foutunatly) I was no able to attend as I was on exchange with the USAF at the time and could not get leave. 

Here's a relivent quote;

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest thing. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." 

John Stuart Mill


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## peaches (12 Sep 2006)

Mr. Wallace,

Yes sir that's the one I received.


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## warspite (12 Sep 2006)

peaches said:
			
		

> I have just had enough of these NDP twits.  There were some NDP students showed up at my dads retirnement dinner in Winnipeg last year (39 yrs CF) and caused some greif.  They complianed to the hotel staff about letting us use the dinning hall for his kind, graffit on poster, idiot comments.  Turn's out they came from little sis's university.  Hotel staff put the run on them as did my uncle.


The NDP is like a cancer, poisoning Canada with it's yuppie ideology but this is lower than even I would expect. 
I wonder if beating some sense (and most of all some common manners) into these punks would have any effect?


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## peaches (12 Sep 2006)

I feel like choking them all too.  Just little brats with no common sense.  Dad did not say anything about it, mom was hurt.   

It's not all bad, I was in uniform in Timmies in North Bay this weekend getting my coffee before my shift, and had a guy buy me a coffee and thank me for my service.  It was a nice jesture.  I was stationed at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma for a while, used to have that sort of think happen alot down there, yes even in a CF uniform.  the American recognized it an said thanks.  There are alot of "support the troops" signs around here.

Here's an open question, does anyone out there think that perhaps this problem is due to the fact we have a very low profile across Canada, and are just not visible.  Simply, people do not see us, therefore do not know anything about us??

In the US everybody know what a military person looks like, recognize uniforms etc, as the have a military base or post (REG or RES NG) in almost every major town or city.  Maybe the answer is to become more visible.  I remember driving down the 401 in convoy with people waving, stopping at gas stationss along the way with all sorts of people talking to use, asking questions.  Look at all the people that come out to Air Shows, we get huge crowds here in North Bay when we open "The Hole" to the public.  Any thoughts....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2006)

peaches said:
			
		

> Here's an open question, does anyone out there think that perhaps this problem is due to the fact we have a very low profile across Canada, and are just not visible.  Simply, people do not see us, therefore do not know anything about us??



No, its because "we"[ the supporters and the majority of Canadians] are more than likely the strong silent type and that doesn't play out well on polls and 30 second TV sound bites as the squeaky high-pitched pathetic whining chicken little types do.

See Zipperhead_Cops post on what happens when you don't answer the first question "their way" on a poll about Afghanistan.      'click'

EDIT
Found it...http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49857.0.html


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## The_Falcon (12 Sep 2006)

peaches said:
			
		

> I feel like choking them all too.  Just little brats with no common sense.  Dad did not say anything about it, mom was hurt.
> 
> It's not all bad, I was in uniform in Timmies in North Bay this weekend getting my coffee before my shift, and had a guy buy me a coffee and thank me for my service.  It was a nice jesture.  I was stationed at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma for a while, used to have that sort of think happen alot down there, yes even in a CF uniform.  the American recognized it an said thanks.  There are alot of "support the troops" signs around here.
> 
> ...



There was a thread not to long ago about this very sort of thing.  It was mostly concerned with the use of wearing the uniform out in public when going to events and such (like going to a hockey game, or going to a bar/club). But I don't really want to derail this thread and debate the pros and cons of doing such a thing, because as I remember that thread was pretty lengthy.

edited to add this link Uniforms in Public http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26650.0.html


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## peaches (12 Sep 2006)

No prob, just thinking out loud....


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## Wookilar (12 Sep 2006)

Well, I haven't gotten the form letter reply. I haven't gotten any kind of reply. And I was polite.

Maybe they just don't like me.

Or the fact that I told them I had already read their form letter and wasn't interested. I only wanted a true reply to some of the points that I raised.

I said that I knew it would be a lot of work to answer everyone, but after they had insulted a few thousand of us, what did they honestly expect was going to happen?


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## a_majoor (13 Sep 2006)

A pair of links about some kindred spirits in San Fransisco. Is this really the true face of the NDP as well? You decide.

http://www.zombietime.com/global_day_of_action_march_18_2006/

http://www.zombietime.com/anarchist_bookfair_march_18_2006/


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## aesop081 (13 Sep 2006)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> A pair of links about some kindred spirits in San Fransisco. Is this really the true face of the NDP as well? You decide.
> 
> http://www.zombietime.com/global_day_of_action_march_18_2006/
> 
> http://www.zombietime.com/anarchist_bookfair_march_18_2006/



a picture in the first lik says "bush = Hitler......"

look at this : http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/index.jhtml?ml_video=61402


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## Wookilar (15 Sep 2006)

Well, here's the reply I got this morning.

"Greg,

Thank you for being so honest about your response to the preamble of our resolution. I have received many similar emails.

I have admitted publicly on behalf of our riding association that it was wrong to use the word terrorist in the same sentence as Canadian soldiers. I deeply regret the hurt and anger it has caused to armed forces personnel.

The language failed to express what our resolution wanted to convey - that if our troops are sent to an area where combatants cannot be distinguished  from ordinary civilians, there will inevitably be deaths and injuries  - both to our troops and ordinary Afghan citizens.  Innocent Afghans who get shot or killed in &#147;collateral damage&#148; won't be able to distinguish Canadian troops from those on the other side. And that will generate more suicide bombers who'll attack our men and women in uniform. 

The cost of Canadian lives has been too high, and that was the premise the resolution was based on. The resolution was one of many calling for the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. You and I (and our riding association) have different opinions on whether Canada needs to be fighting a war in Afghanistan, as is often the case in a democracy.

Sue Creba

"If the international community wants to deny the Taliban and their allies an important recruiting tool, it must withdraw Western troops from Afghanistan as soon as possible."  
-- Najibullah Lafraie, the pre-Taliban foreign affairs minister of Afghanistan, Spiegel On-Line, September 6, 2006."

I do appreciate the fact that she counter-pointed a few of the things I mentioned, but I am still not convinced that the wording used in the original preamble was "wrong." It was too carefully worded to be a mistake.

The biggest issue I have is Sue's statement that "'collateral damage'...will generate more suicide bombers." Any info that has been released, including propaganda from the Tally tubbies, has not mentioned anything like that, in a credible manner, at least.

The biggest point that was not answered, that I asked about, was regarding the current strain of thought that the Tally should be negotiated with. I asked how they were planning on negotiating with a group that executed teachers for teaching girls and blew up ancient statues of Buddha?

I would like to see the webcast of that meeting.

But, she did answer me back. I have respect for that, at least. Is this the new form letter, or did I get an actual, personal response?


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## gnplummer421 (16 Sep 2006)

I too sent letters to my local NDP guy, the NDP main website, and Jack himself. However, I may have offended said party with some steaming comments which may have diluted the effect of said letters. I cannot repeat the contents here, but let's just say that perhaps in the future I will decompress before putting my fingers to the keyboard.

The NDP have dug themselves a hole with their rantings, and the next election will tell the tale. We need not fear them, they are small fish in a big ocean, and will never amount to anything.  The NDP cannot even keep up to the low standard they set for themselves  ;D

Gnplummer421


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## career_radio-checker (16 Sep 2006)

Hey just a side note, I found a striking similarity between Jack and Neville Chamberlain. Remember what happened the last time we had a "peace" deal with the Buggy Man?


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## Rodahn (16 Sep 2006)

Maybe the NDP are correct and we should bring the troops home.... To be replaced by the NDP, especially the riding association of Nanaimo/Cowichan....


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## AJFitzpatrick (16 Sep 2006)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Hey just a side note, I found a striking similarity between Jack and Neville Chamberlain. Remember what happened the last time we had a "peace" deal with the Buggy Man?



Bit of a slur there on old Neville. His hands were a bit tied.


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## Blindspot (16 Sep 2006)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Hey just a side note, I found a striking similarity between Jack and Neville Chamberlain. Remember what happened the last time we had a "peace" deal with the Buggy Man?



I see a little more resemblence to Oswald Mosley.


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## Cardstonkid (22 Sep 2006)

Here is an interesting story at stevejanke.com

I am not sure I have adjectives to describe these folks, so I'll leave it to those more gifted in the vernacular.

Here is a small portion of the article,


Jack Layton ought to take personal responsibility for the misleading quotes on the party website. To take someone else's words, quote them without context, and then link them in such a way as to cast aspersions on Canadian troops is both underhanded and cowardly. If Jack Layton thinks Canadian troops are bombing villages, he should stand up and say it himself, instead of trying to use Hamid Karzai as his proxy.

here is the link to the piece.
http://www.stevejanke.com/archives/197839.php


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## kilekaldar (22 Sep 2006)

In the same vein, couldn't believe this when I read it. Does the NDP have ANY clue as to what is going on over here??

Full article at http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=2d1586cd-646f-4358-93e5-567e77d87b59&k=31590

"Troops acting 'like terrorists?'
Draft resolution to go before NDP committee

John Ivison, National Post
Published: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 
OTTAWA - Canada's troops in Afghanistan have been "acting like terrorists, destroying communities, killing and maiming innocent people", according to a resolution that will be voted on by New Democrats at the party's convention in Quebec City this weekend.

The resolution is one of 104 proposals on international affairs from local riding associations that will be presented at the convention. Others suggest Canada withdraw from the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the World Trade Organization and the North American Free Trade Agreement, while one riding association proposes a freeze on trade with Israel until the "occupation of Palestinian lands" is ended.

The Afghan mission was the subject of a number of proposed resolutions, all calling for the withdrawal of Canadian troops. "The Canadian occupation is propping up a regime composed of barbarous warlords who are little better than the Taliban," says one riding association.


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## Angry in the GWN (22 Sep 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Exactly.. beat me to it
> 
> That article is Sept 6... and has been debunked
> and the NDP already retracted their words.



Not much of a retraction if they've decided to make the same allegation in a round-about way two weeks later.  And when you read the full text of Karzai's comments from which the NDP extracted that statement, you see just what shameless liars they are.

_By the way, thanks so much for reading the blog.  Cheers!_


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## armyvern (22 Sep 2006)

Angry in the GWN said:
			
		

> Not much of a retraction if they've decided to make the same allegation in a round-about way two weeks later.  And when you read the full text of Karzai's comments from which the NDP extracted that statement, you see just what shameless liars they are.
> 
> _By the way, thanks so much for reading the blog.  Cheers!_



We're talking about the second article that was posted. It's got it's own thread already so there's no need to start debating it again here.

Now the NDPs obvious attempt to once again mis-lead the masses via their "selective" quoting mechanisms which again link our soldiers with "uwantedness" or unjust activites in Afghanistan just goes to prove how much they really DO NOT SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and is worth posting here. 

Strike one. Strike two...no actually they were out of my vote realm waaaaayy before this.


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## James (22 Sep 2006)

I don't think I'll be voting for the NDP anymore. In fact, I think I'll be sending them an angry letter.


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## Angry in the GWN (22 Sep 2006)

Here's a thought.  Was Jack Layton indulging in some petty revenge?


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## Mike Baker (22 Sep 2006)

James said:
			
		

> I don't think I'll be voting for the NDP anymore.


I will never vote for them.


			
				James said:
			
		

> In fact, I think I'll be sending them an angry letter.


Already done, not saying that they will respond, that is up to them.

Cheers


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## cplcaldwell (22 Sep 2006)

Thanks to Angry in the GWN for the full text of Mr Karzai's comments. 

In a recent interview the Afghan Defence Minister, Abdul Rahim Wardak was asked some questions, full text at This Link 

Text shared under Fair Dealings Provisions of the Copyright Act RSC.




> ... I think at the moment, you see, relatively north and west of the country is... safe, peaceful and relatively prosperous than the rest of the country which is east and south. So the deployment of NATO into the South will tremendously affect the security situation. And once the security situation is better, I think there will be more opportunities for reconstruction and development, which will directly affect the life of the normal Afghans who are living in that area





> the Afghan people as a whole, they have welcome the coalition and NATO troops. Otherwise, that is a country which is really difficult to control or survive in it. ...And our history is a great witness to all that development. The Afghan, the normal Afghan see NATO and coalition troops as an instrumental stability and peace in our country, and they are welcome by the people as a whole. And I also have a definite information that what have happened in Maimana_*<note: a protest widely reported to be against the presence of NATO Forces>*_, it has nothing to do to be against NATO; it was the rivalry between two ex-warlords, which then the mob went out of control.



So we have Mr Karzai and his minister supporting ISAF and noting that the people support ISAF and that with continued effort the security situation, which much of the country has at least a nominally good degree of, will improve. 

*But why would Taliban Jack want us to know about that?*


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## HollywoodHitman (23 Sep 2006)

A convenience we see in many aspects of public life.......Make an inflammatory statement, then retract it like it never happened.

The NDP, led by Taliban-Jack, can't seem to get that even they lose credibility every time they open their yap's on Canadian foreign policy. Have an actual GOVERNMENT before you start yapping about how things should be done.......How long has it been? Can they even SPELL "majority"? Can't the wackos out there see that the only reason our foreign policy is similar to our southern neighbours, is because we live the same decadent, isolated lifestyles? Oh! But wait! It can NEVER happen here! People LOVE Canadians.

NDP, BITE ME!

HH


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## 2 Cdo (23 Sep 2006)

Troops time to relax. Just think, everytime Jack opens his mouth to let something stupid fall out, it destroys the NDP's credibility with anyone with more than two brain cells. If we keep letting him yap, and keep debunking his lies and innuendo, hopefully in the next election him and his party are reduced to nothing! No official party status, no seats in the House, no Jack.

I'm seeing it already, people are seeing through the charade that is Jack Layton and the NDP. At least the ones with an IQ higher then the average plant!


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## Blue Max (23 Sep 2006)

Karzai arrives, avoids NDP's Layton
By CP
http://winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2006/09/22/pf-1878388.html

OTTAWA -- Afghan President Hamid Karzai arrived in Canada yesterday to help drum up support for the mission in his troubled country, but a meeting with the country's most prominent anti-war politician did not appear to be on his agenda. 

NDP Leader Jack Layton has made several requests for a meeting with the Afghan leader -- and has received no reply. 

Layton is the only major federal party leader to have called for a withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan. 

He says he'd like to discuss with Karzai alternatives to the current conflict. 

"I certainly would like to have the opportunity to speak with him," Layton said outside the House of Commons. 

REPEATED REQUESTS 

Layton's staff has made repeated requests through the Department of Foreign Affairs and by appealing directly to the Afghan embassy in Ottawa. 

When contacted yesterday afternoon, the embassy confirmed that no meeting with Layton had yet been scheduled. 

Karzai strode into Parliament's Centre Block last evening for a meeting with Stephen Harper. 

He will also meet with interim Liberal Leader Bill Graham, civil-society groups, soldiers' families, and even the mayor of Montreal over the next two days. 

Karzai will address Parliament today, when he is expected to make the case that Canada's continued efforts are a necessary boost to his war-ravaged country. But he also wants to drive home the message that Canada's role in Afghanistan carries a large humanitarian component. 

Layton said the current reality suggests otherwise. 

He pointed to statistics indicating that Canadian military spending in Afghanistan is outstripping humanitarian spending by nine to one. 

"This mission is completely out of whack," Layton said.

Actually I had heard from another news source (uncomfirmed as yet) that Taliban Jack was going to meet Hamid Kharzai on Sunday. If only I had some of that CIA-Magic-Spy-Dust for this meeting!


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## Trinity (23 Sep 2006)

Blue Max said:
			
		

> Actually I had heard from another news source (uncomfirmed as yet) that Taliban Jack was going to meet Hamid Kharzai on Sunday. If only I had some of that CIA-Magic-Spy-Dust for this meeting!



If this was true... Taliban Jack would be annoucing it to all the media that he has a meeting
and his plans to offer solutions.... etc.


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## GAP (23 Sep 2006)

They may not be advertising it, but according to the news it is slated to happen...watch the rhetoric at 11:00 !!


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## vonGarvin (23 Sep 2006)

It's already begun
_Layton said he was more convinced than ever that Canada needs to withdraw its troops from southern Afghanistan. _ 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060923/karzai_layton_060923/20060923?hub=TopStories

Nothing yet on http://www.ndp.ca


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## HItorMiss (23 Sep 2006)

"Layton said he was more convinced than ever that Canada needs to withdraw its troops from southern Afghanistan. 
Layton says Karzai told him that drug problems and the infiltration of southern Afghanistan by Taliban fighters from Pakistan are equally as important as providing security to the region."


I wonder how he expects us to stop the drug problem or the infiltration of Taliban from Pakistan without troop's  :

Maybe he plans on sitting on the border and talking nicely and "negotiating" with them, course that will be hard to do without his head.....


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## Kirkhill (23 Sep 2006)

Not a dialogue of the deaf perhaps, but at least a dialogue with a deaf man.


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## couchcommander (23 Sep 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Maybe he plans on sitting on the border and talking nicelyand "negotiating" with them



Once again, I think you should facilitate this if at all possible.


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## Thompson_JM (23 Sep 2006)

I think Jack needs to have a closed door meeting with Maddoxhttp://maddox.xmission.com/


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## max flinch (23 Sep 2006)

I was in discussion with some acquaintances last night. I generally don't talk politics at social gatherings, simply because it can be a divisive thing. They were in agreement with what Layton was saying. I printed up one of Laytons statements on the computer, and read it to them substituting "German" for "Taliban" and "Europe" for "Afghanistan." Minor silence, and then an admission that it meant something to think about our efforts now in terms of our efforts then, and how the world would be changed if we'd listened to people like Layton in the 1940's.

And, in the same context, I can't resist:


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## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2006)

I wonder if Taliban Jack knows who ELSE is backing his position on CAN in AFG????  Don't know whether to be sickened, to laugh out loud at the irony, or what.......

http://www.judeoscope.ca/breve.php3?id_breve=2657
*White supremacists support NDP on Afghanistan withdrawal*

"The puppet President of Afghanistan (and ex-oil executive and Halliburton Corporation executive) Hamid Karzai, put in by American imperialist aggression and propped up by a mercenary-military alliance (the troops of NATO, including Canadians), is visiting his neo-con Zionist backers in our fair capital of Ottawa. Karzai is looking for more Canadian cannon-fodder for the meat grinder and encountering resistance to establish another McWorld whorehouse in that ancient civilization. He knows that Canadians have served with bloody distinction as fill-ins in past conflicts throughout history, from the Boer War in South Africa, to Korea, to Afghanistan today. He knows Canada’s ruling elite are a bunch of liars, just like the recently-admitted "ex-commie" government in Hungary."

From the Nationalist Part of Canada web page, an open letter to Jack:

http://www.natparty.com/activities.htm

"Regarding the cartoons of your propagandists, bashing Jack Layton and his peaceful position on Bush's wars in Afghanistan: 

Let me quote an old adage from Gandhi:

"First, they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
And then, you win."

Bob Smith
Secretary,
Nationalist Party of Canada and
2006 Toronto Municipal Elections
Mayoralty Candidate"


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## vonGarvin (23 Sep 2006)

From the "nationalist party site":






Free speech my arse.  THESE freaks would probably support this mission if they realised that the Germans were there.  
Idiots.


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## club foot (23 Sep 2006)

Max Flinch said:
			
		

> I was in discussion with some acquaintances last night. I generally don't talk politics at social gatherings, simply because it can be a divisive thing. They were in agreement with what Layton was saying. I printed up one of Laytons statements on the computer, and read it to them substituting "German" for "Taliban" and "Europe" for "Afghanistan." Minor silence, and then an admission that it meant something to think about our efforts now in terms of our efforts then, and how the world would be changed if we'd listened to people like Layton in the 1940's.
> 
> And, in the same context, I can't resist:



You owe me for the rum and coke soaked keyboard I just ruined


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## Reccesoldier (23 Sep 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> _Layton said he was more convinced than ever that Canada needs to withdraw its troops from southern Afghanistan. _




In spite of Karzai's direct contradiction of his delusions.  [Bugs Bunny Voice] What a maroon! [/Bugs Bunny Voice]


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## 1feral1 (23 Sep 2006)

At then end of the day, this Jack bloke is a national embarrassment to Canada, and if anything thing, he has not only sealed his fate, but the party's nationally. We all know they don't really stand a chance anyways, and I see them as a weak stale simple fart in a strong prairie wind. Only the weak minded snivel libertarian left with side with him, not the mainstream Canadian population.

He should be ashamed of himself.

 Cheers,

Wes


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## Teddy Ruxpin (24 Sep 2006)

> From the "nationalist party site":
> 
> 
> Free speech my arse.  THESE freaks would probably support this mission if they realised that the Germans were there.
> Idiots.



Am I the only one who finds is somewhat ironic that Taliban Jack finds himself siding with neo-Nazis on Afghanistan? :  The "Nationalist Party" site makes for interesting reading.  

Care to explain, Jack?


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## vonGarvin (24 Sep 2006)

I too find it ironic.  It sort of reminds me of Ribbentrop (Droege, Zündel et al) and Molotov (Layton, Chow, McDonough).


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## patrick666 (24 Sep 2006)

Is it not a little bit insulting to say that our soldiers died for "no good reason" ? 



> At then end of the day, this Jack bloke is a national embarrassment to Canada,



I couldn't agree more.


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## Lager and Ale (24 Sep 2006)

I got this from another retired mil net.  Thought it was very well written!

Here’s one for Talban Jack from an old RCAF pilot who seems to have a handle on the situation. 
 Subject: Views on Afghanistan

 Your views on Afghanistan
Here is a message for Jack Layton from a retired Air Force Warrior that survived his days in WWII and the cold war flying fighters in Europe.

  You sir have not a clue what you are spouting off about our troops fighting in Afghanistan. 
You stupid socialists have always been cowardly and not prepared to fight for what is good and right and it does not matter where these Socialists are. 
They were no better in Germany, France or England before and during WW II. 
Now you, you stupid son-of a bitch, at this very trying time, are doing your best to undermine our troops and give comfort to the enemy.
Canadians Armed Forces who have for about the past 40 years taken an active part in peacekeeping does not make it a “tradition” as you call it. 
You say Afghanistan is the “wrong mission for Canada” and that it has changed from “reconstruction” to “war.” 
Obviously, you don’t have an ounce of brains in your head to understand that before you can “reconstruct” you must fight to create the peace in order to reconstruct. 
Your ignorant yapping to the media borders on treason and if this was WW II you would have been dealt with much differently. 
Notwithstanding that the loss of every one of our soldiers brings tears to my eyes, whether it be by accident or enemy bullet or bomb, the fact remains that in our Air Division in Europe during the cold war, not counting other aircrew losses we who flew F-86 Sabrejets lost 107 pilots. 
That era for us was not a shooting war either although at times things did get a bit tense. 

So Shut Up from now on and stop endangering our troops. 
John L den Ouden 

(Royal Canadian Air Force, retired)


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## medicineman (24 Sep 2006)

Buy that man a beer  .

MM


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## RangerRay (24 Sep 2006)

Actually, people shouldn't be writing to the NDP with their concerns.  The NDP know full well the facts, but want to play on the ignorance of the populace to win seats in the next election.  We should be writing letters to the editor and calling into talk shows, and talking to our friends and families to educate them on the reality of the situation.  

When the populace is educated, Taliban Jack _et al_ will STFU.

EDITED for clarity.


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## McG (24 Sep 2006)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> Actually, people shouldn't be writing to the NDP with their concerns.


What about open letters to the NDP that also make their way to the editors?


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## RangerRay (24 Sep 2006)

MCG said:
			
		

> What about open letters to the NDP that also make their way to the editors?



Oh, of course.  As long as the public sees them and reads how hypocritical their stand is.  

I was referring to private letters and emails.  The party is fully aware of the facts, but choose to conveniently ignore the inconvenient facts.  And all you get in return is a crappy form letter, where they basically ignore you anyways.


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## patrick666 (24 Sep 2006)

> and talking to our friends and families to educate them on the reality of the situation.



I think it's a good idea. A lot of my friends, after listening to me incessantly, have come to spite Jack. Word of mouth is sometimes the best advertisement, for better or for worse.


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## Zell_Dietrich (25 Sep 2006)

Patrick H. said:
			
		

> I think it's a good idea. A lot of my friends, after listening to me incessantly, have come to spite Jack. Word of mouth is sometimes the best advertisement, for better or for worse.



     Yes! Yes yes yes!  The best way to deal with the NDP and their 30 second soundbytes of confusion is to sit down with people and calmly explain what is at stake what is going on and what still needs to be done.  Don't just throat punch people who disagree with you,  80% of the people I know who were for us pulling out now support the mission, many were card carrying NDPers.  The other 20% - they just made me sharpen my argument.  (Although one guy refused to accept that Afghanistan wasn't Iraq - I wanted to show him a map but he wouldn't believe me)

    If the Canadian people feel they are sending us into a quagmire,  they will have us pulled out.  They care about us so much they'd rather see a country taken over by terrorists and butchers than to see flag covered coffins coming home.  If you explain that that if we allow the Taliban to take over many more people would die and that we'd simply be fighting them on our soil,  most begrudgingly accept that as unpleasant as this is,  it needs to be done.

    Now,  as for calling us terrorists.... bombing Afghan villages... I've spoken with a few people who were behind the scenes on a few of those and I think their intention was to point out that we're spending 9 dollars on military for 1 dollar of aid. Also they wanted to say how current military tactics are loosing the hearts and minds of the locals.  I asked them why they didn't just say they wanted more money for aid projects and more soldiers so they could better keep the peace,  I didn't really get an answer.


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## zipperhead_cop (25 Sep 2006)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> I think their intention was to point out that we're spending 9 dollars on military for 1 dollar of aid. Also they wanted to say how current military tactics are loosing the hearts and minds of the locals.  I asked them why they didn't just say they wanted more money for aid projects and more soldiers so they could better keep the peace,  I didn't really get an answer.



Did they perhaps have an answer for how they will entertain the cost when we start throwing money into construction that just ends up being destroyed and rebuilt?  
I would also bet that those people would like to have no oversight with the money that their "causes" would be being awarded.  

Oh, BTW, this still remains on the NDP web site on the home page:






Which lands you  HERE 

But that makes perfect sense, since the pacifists generally choose to ignore what doesn't suit them and probably prefer to cut to the petition.   :threat:


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