# Heavy Truck Purchase Announcement



## Ljealexander (10 May 2007)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2280

An announcement of the purchase of new heavy trucks for replacement of the HLVW in Afhanistan was made earlier today.


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## vonGarvin (10 May 2007)

When will Stephen Staples be calling this a "logistics race" with the Taliban?  I wager for no later than 2359 11 May, 2007.  Any takers?


;D


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## IN HOC SIGNO (10 May 2007)

Wow that's awesome. any links to prototypes of the new truck?


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## zanshin (10 May 2007)

Well there.  The new gun tractor has been chosen.  I just searched over on the Artillery board (a quick search mind you, as there isn't a great deal of time to surf over here...  ) and couldn't find a topic discussing the impending arrival of a new gun tractor.  I could have sworn I saw something there about this months ago...


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## Ljealexander (11 May 2007)

Additional information from CASR:

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-ahsvs-project.htm


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## retiredgrunt45 (12 May 2007)

Wow, very nice, I'll have to send the PM a thank You note. 

All this new equipment, is making me giddy, even my wife says I'm smiling more these days ;D Its nice to see we're taking care of our most valuable treasure over there, our troops, God bless them and help us keep them safe!


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## gaspasser (12 May 2007)

{best Darth Vader voice}
Impressive, very impressive.
Looks like something from the Imperial Arsenal.  Does it come with legs?
Seems versatile with a flatdeck, PLS and fifth wheel variants.  Wonder if they'll put a crane or HIAB on some?  
Too bad she's automatic.  Some operators enjoy jammin' and slammin' and the choice to pick a gear for conditions.


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## ironduke57 (12 May 2007)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> {best Darth Vader voice}
> Impressive, very impressive.
> Looks like something from the Imperial Arsenal.  Does it come with legs?
> ...



Like this?  

SCNR,
ironduke57


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## McG (12 May 2007)

Is this a replacement for all HLVW, or just those in Afghanistan?


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## Cdn Blackshirt (12 May 2007)

The important question for me is "Can we use these new trucks to run over the vandals discussed in other hot thread of the day?"

You know....to check to ensure the tires can flatten stupid hippies without puncturing.


Matthew.   ;D


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## George Wallace (12 May 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> The important question for me is "Can we use these new trucks to run over the vandals discussed in other hot thread of the day?"
> 
> You know....to check to ensure the tires can flatten stupid hippies without puncturing.
> 
> ...



Sorry Matthew, that is reserved for Tracked Vehicles.  Tracks need to be greased periodically.  (After Washing, after Fording, after changing track, after X Kms, after excessive travel over rough terrain, etc.)


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## Nfld Sapper (12 May 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry Matthew, that is reserved for Tracked Vehicles.  Tracks need to be greased periodically.  (After Washing, after Fording, after changing track, after X Kms, after excessive travel over rough terrain, etc.)



Tell me about it GW, that's one of the things I hate about track, the other is pounding track  ;D


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## Cdn Blackshirt (12 May 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry Matthew, that is reserved for Tracked Vehicles.  Tracks need to be greased periodically.  (After Washing, after Fording, after changing track, after X Kms, after excessive travel over rough terrain, etc.)



Thanks George....I just blew coffee on my laptop.      ;D


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## ghazise (13 May 2007)

$87 million for 82 trucks, it seems a little expensive


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## gaspasser (13 May 2007)

ironduke57 said:
			
		

> Like this?
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=60795.0;attach=17412
> SCNR,
> ironduke57


Nice work!  They could certainly use the new mod on the terrain in A'stan.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (13 May 2007)

2FtOnion said:
			
		

> $87 million for 82 trucks, it seems a little expensive



I'm probably out of my lane here but I remember reading that when we purchase stuff it includes the spares, the technology and the maintenace contracts for a certain period of time. they don't actualy cost over $1 million a truck.


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## ghazise (13 May 2007)

I understand the price tag probably includes a maintenance and support contract or even life-cycle support, but it wasn't stated in the press release, even still what was the base-line truck cost?  how much of a supply parts block was included with the purchase?


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## Good2Golf (13 May 2007)

2FtOnion said:
			
		

> $87 million for 82 trucks, it seems a little expensive



No...as a general rule, total life cycle costs run between 3 and 4 times the initial capital procurement cost.  That would put the trucks at roughly $250k to $330k...that's fairly resonable considering what an on-road Class 8 tractor will cost or a Motorcoach...

G2G


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## newfin (13 May 2007)

Does anyone have a good link to some in-depth info on these trucks?  I have been searching the net and can find very little.  CASR has some info.  I would like to know who else is using these machines.  Are there any in Afghanistan that our guys have seen?  If so, what do they think of them?


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## TN2IC (14 May 2007)

Ljealexander said:
			
		

> An announcement of the purchase of new heavy trucks for replacement of the HLVW in Afhanistan was made earlier today.




TN2IC replies....


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## prom (15 May 2007)

newfin said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a good link to some in-depth info on these trucks?  I have been searching the net and can find very little.  CASR has some info.  I would like to know who else is using these machines.  Are there any in Afghanistan that our guys have seen?  If so, what do they think of them?




the only other location that I have found any really substantial information was from the D-C website and it was for the commercial ver not the mil-ver. the other location http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/daimler_chrysler/ has very limited info


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## Ljealexander (15 May 2007)

The armoured cab is apparently a product of Land Mobility Technologies. The company is based in South Africa. Their website is:

http://www.lmt.co.za/product_cab.htm


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## PetOp (15 May 2007)

I have seen video of the new UK Army truck being trialled during ballistic tests and its pretty impressive. Not the same company as this one mentioned but the protection levels are mentioned on it. The trial involved different calibers of rounds fired at different parts of the cab, some even at the previous impact point, as well as explosive placed near the armour itself to mimic mines. But no matter what is produced to defeat known devices, the bad guys will only come up with bigger and better. A 155mm shell under a road culvert more or less takes out anything driving over it, but if the guys inside survive then job done!


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## geo (15 May 2007)

Any landing where a pilot / driver can walk away from the wreck is a good landing.


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## 28402 engineers (16 May 2007)

Any other customers for the new truck besides Canada?


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## aesop081 (16 May 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Any landing where a pilot / driver can walk away from the wreck is a good landing.



Any landing/drive where the pilot/driver can walk away is a* good * landing/drive.

Any landing/drive where the pilot/driver can walk away and the airplane/truck can be used again is a *great* landing/drive.


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## geo (16 May 2007)

Heh!


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## ouyin2000 (27 May 2007)

newfin said:
			
		

> ...Are there any in Afghanistan that our guys have seen?  If so, what do they think of them?



The only thing I have heard about these new trucks, is that TF 1-08 will be the first ones to trial them. They're sending (20 i think) trucks over here to Edmonton so 1-08 truckers can start training on them


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## gaspasser (27 May 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Any landing where a pilot / driver can walk away from the wreck is a good landing.


+1, of course... ;D


			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Any landing/drive where the pilot/driver can walk away is a* good * landing/drive.
> 
> Any landing/drive where the pilot/driver can walk away and the airplane/truck can be used again is a *great* landing/drive.


So long as one gets to walk away and not carried...who cares about the equipment...unless it's your last one??!! 8)


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## McG (27 May 2007)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> The only thing I have heard about these new trucks, is that TF 1-08 will be the first ones to trial them.


First to trial, or first to train on?  If anyone was doing trials, they should have been done before we bought . . .  & there is another thread about large HL types being seen trialed in Gagetown a few months back.


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## Babbling Brooks (28 May 2007)

I had a chance to speak with Major Lyna Gravel, the project director for the AHSVS, just over a week ago - but I only got a chance to write about the project today:

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/05/keep-on-truckin.html

Most of the information in my piece is already in the public domain, but I'm not sure it's been pulled together into one place before.  Follow the links in the piece if you're really interested.

Feel free to correct me if I've made any glaring mistakes - I'm not an expert on heavy, armoured supply trucks!


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## FEEOP042 (28 May 2007)

I think we should have got the Oshkosh HET and the PLS Truck. But since we didn't I wonder if the ENGR's are getting the Tractor for there eqpt hauling.

http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~pls~home.cfm#

http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~het~home.cfm

CHIMO


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## Abs (17 Jul 2007)

Does the link http://www.lmt.co.za/product_cab.htm still work for anyone else? I've had no luck, wherever I have tried it.

Abs


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## prom (17 Jul 2007)

Abs said:
			
		

> Does the link http://www.lmt.co.za/product_cab.htm still work for anyone else? I've had no luck, wherever I have tried it.
> 
> Abs



Dead for me aswell. As is the root website for the company.


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## Abs (18 Jul 2007)

Hmm...does anyone have the information saved somewhere? I would _really_ like to have a look at it. 

Abs


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## Ljealexander (10 Aug 2007)

The link appears to be working again for now.

http://www.lmt.co.za/product_cab.htm


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## IN HOC SIGNO (10 Aug 2007)

Ljealexander said:
			
		

> The link appears to be working again for now.
> 
> http://www.lmt.co.za/product_cab.htm



Sweet! It says it has the capability for Dual Weapon mount. I wonder which one(s), C6? and are they remote or does a gunner have to stick his/her head out of a hatch?


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## prom (28 Nov 2007)

So has there been updates as too when these will be arriving in theatre?


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## newfin (28 Nov 2007)

IIRC I believe I read somewhere that they are going to be in theatre starting at the next rotation - which is in Feb/08?  

Here's another question - does anyone know of another military that has these trucks with the armored cabs?  Can you point me to pictures?


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## Semper Fidelis (28 Nov 2007)

Here Is some Info on the newly acquired Heavy Truck
It will replace the HLVW on Overseas operations only the HLVW was designed as an unarmoured cargo vehicle which when up armoured looses its payload capacity, so a truck designed for payload operations and fully armoured is the logical choice, I'm glad theyhave gone to this option I'm only a little disappointed it took so long.

*Armoured Heavy Support Vehicle System (AHSVS)...*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Scope...*

The Canadian Force's heavy logistics requirement is currently provided by a fleet of more than 1,200 unarmoured Heavy Logistics Vehicle Wheeled (HLVW) trucks that were procured in the late 1980s. In the 1990s, during operations in the Balkans, the threat of small arms fire, grenades and blast mines led the Army to develop an armour protection system (APS) for the HLVW. The APS components are made of steel, ceramic and ballistic glass. These components are extremely heavy and could only be designed to defeat the most minor of threats without seriously degrading the payload capacity and functionality of the vehicle.

The AHSVS will be replacing the HLVWs that are presently in Afghanistan. This acquisition will provide the Canadian Forces with a protected, robust heavy logistics vehicle that can be used on deployed operations around the globe for years to come. The HLVW fleet will continue to service Canadian troops in areas where there is a lower threat environment. 

The Armoured Heavy Support Vehicle System (AHSVS) will have an immediate impact on how the CF can support operations. They will provide high levels of crew protection, incorporating mine blast resistance and protection against both IEDs and ballistic threats.

*Project Description...*

The AHSVS will be employed in the conduct of combat service support and combat tasks. This includes towing the M777 Lightweight Towed Howitzer and its basic ammunition load, transporting general cargo, such as humanitarian supplies, recovering all vehicles up to the LAVIII, transporting tanks and delivering bulk water and fuel.

Initial delivery of the AHSVS to Afghanistan will commence in Feb 2008, with final delivery anticipated for May 2008. In total, the project will provide the CF with 82 vehicles. The AHSVS will be broken down into four main variants: 

25 cargo with material handling crane variant vehicles (of which eight will be gun tractors for the M777); 
Five recovery variant vehicles; 
12 heavy tank transporter tractor variant vehicles; and 
40 palletized loading system (PLS)  variant vehicles with container handling unit (10 petroleum, oils, and lubricants variants and five water variants). 
The contract also includes an option of procuring an additional 26 AHSVS of various variants

*Characteristics / Equipment...*

*General Specifications*


Speed:  85 km/hr on two per cent slope, fully laden 
Range: 732 km 
Payload: 16 tonnes
Towed load: 30 tonnes 
Engine: 503 hp, eight-cylinder
Transmission:16 speed automatic and semi-automatic
 Fuel capacity: 600 litres 




http://dglepm.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dsvpm/SMP/English/ahsvs/Download/Delivered.pdf


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## TN2IC (28 Nov 2007)

Only 82 vehicles for over seas? That's it? I was thinking may be a tad more. Oh well, at less we are getting them now then never.


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## geo (28 Nov 2007)

I think that a lot of our procurement process is targeted to a single mission right now - not planning on overall world committments beyond Afghanistan.... if we intend to go into a dangerous theatre, the planners expect that we will no longer be committed to ISAF at KAF - and the kit can thus be moved.

Note that this does not provide any inventory for training vehicles located in Canada.  Will training on the HLVW & the VHLVW be adequate?   How about what happens when vehicles are sent back to 3rd line Mtce.... or worse yet - back to 202 Work shops for a rebuild... 

Is the solution realistic (or are we flying a bare bones "by the seat of the pants" program)?
8 gun tractors for the M777s... OK
12 Tank transporters..... Not bad, but not enough to move all Leo2s at any one time
Cargo carriers with HIABs... Not bad but only 17 spread out thru the Battle group?
PLS tiltables... Not bad, but is 40 enough spread out thru the Battle group
Recovery vehicles... not bad but is 5 enough spread out thru the Battle group?... hope they get a bunch of extra tow cables for reserve stock.


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## McG (30 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> I think that a lot of our procurement process is targeted to a single mission right now - not planning on overall world committments beyond Afghanistan.... if we intend to go into a dangerous theatre, the planners expect that we will no longer be committed to ISAF at KAF - and the kit can thus be moved.


UOR purchases for Afghanistan are just that: for Afghanistan.  Permanent needs will be met by projects given time to deliver the 95% (or better) solution.  UORs are rushed through with more of an emphasis is on getting something fast & so in a lot of cases we may be getting the only the 75% solution.



			
				newfin said:
			
		

> IIRC I believe I read somewhere that they are going to be in theatre starting at the next rotation - which is in Feb/08?


... the trucks will be a little later.


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## geo (30 Nov 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> UOR purchases for Afghanistan are just that: for Afghanistan.  Permanent needs will be met by projects given time to deliver the 95% (or better) solution.  UORs are rushed through with more of an emphasis is on getting something fast & so in a lot of cases we may be getting the only the 75% solution.
> ... the trucks will be a little later.


MCG
You're right as usual..... the order is for kit that is more or less "off the shelf" & ready to go.
This caused a bit of a problem with the RG31s we got for Afghanistan.  Limited supply of spares while the vehicles are being used in a terrain less than ideal for long term upkeep.


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## Jay T (16 Dec 2007)

Just finished the course on these trucks and let me say that they are VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! It is about time we got something like this! The reason for the limited numbers is that LMT can't produce the cabs fast enough for us. The contract was signed sometime in April or may and the first trucks arrived in Edm in late Oct early Nov. That is AMAZING!!! Usually it takes years and years of reseach and testing and by the time we get the equipment it is outdated! This veh is state of the art and way more than we need!! The cab is amazing comfort is second to none and the protection level is [ModEdit to remove commentary on protection levels of multiple vehicle types] !! Don't worry about the auto tranny, it takes all the guess work out of driving for the truckers. Us Mechs love the new wrecker!! It is an incredible piece of kit!! It has a manual tranny as does the tractor variant. The only auto is the PLS and the cargo. I can't wait to deploy with this truck!! I will let y'all know how it preforms in theatre!!


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## Scoobie Newbie (16 Dec 2007)

Jay T said:
			
		

> I will let y'all know how it preforms in theatre!!



This is what I am waiting for.


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## TN2IC (16 Dec 2007)

Sounds like a good show. I must be there now.


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## QuIcKeR (16 Dec 2007)

yea i did the course as well. Didnt get very much seat time but that what happens when the course is 3 days long. as previously stated this truck is wild.  i feel way more safe in this then the HL. Im going to be driving it with the M777 on the back so it will be Fairly long. It should be good tho


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## GAP (16 Dec 2007)

QuIcKeR said:
			
		

> yea i did the course as well. Didnt get very much seat time but that what happens when the course is 3 days long. as previously stated this truck is wild.  i feel way more safe in this then the HL. Im going to be driving it with the M777 on the back so it will be Fairly long. It should be good tho



Please don't use MSM speach please....


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## Robbie (17 Dec 2007)

Anyone from out West have any pictures of the ones you where doing training on?


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## 241 (17 Dec 2007)

Robbie said:
			
		

> Anyone from out West have any pictures of the ones you where doing training on?



Check the Maple Leaf I am pretty sure I saw a picture of it in there, there is a web link for the Maple Leaf but I can't remember it


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## 211RadOp (17 Dec 2007)

Maple Leaf


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## Robbie (20 Dec 2007)

241 said:
			
		

> Check the Maple Leaf I am pretty sure I saw a picture of it in there, there is a web link for the Maple Leaf but I can't remember it



Thanks!


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## 6v53taddec (31 Jan 2008)

Aahhh, we can do A LOT better than the "Maple Leaf."   Here she is (Our new wrecker), in action doing what she was designed to do.....may I also Say this machine IS pretty much idling through all of this....there was NEVER ANY need to actually work this machine during our trials/course!!!!!   We got to drive'er for about a week!

Faces and cfr's have been digitally manipulated to prevent incriminating those involved!

I have PLENTY (thousands)  of pics from time of arrival via Antonov to actual use.....this IS going to be my job for about the next 8 months, IN THEATRE.   My sentiments are shared trade wide in safely saying that THESE machines meet and exceed our requirements for quite a while to come.  EXCELLENT purchase that was long overdue.....one final pic indicating exactly why the HL's time has BOTH come AND gone.   







































Through no fault of their own, (due to necessity of training pers) but have ANY of you guys EVER experienced an HLVW wheeled driver course at CFSAL in January/February when the school starts about 20 to 30 of these trucks up at once....NO-ONE can breath a breath of clean fresh air on the Southside of Borden for the remainder of the morning till the air LITERALLY CLEARS!!!!!!!!!!    Like I said....the HL's time has COME and GONE!


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## dangerboy (31 Jan 2008)

At least you guys could get them started out here with -50 they could not get them all going.


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## Scoobie Newbie (31 Jan 2008)

Is there enough to replace the HLVW 1 for 1?


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## QuIcKeR (31 Jan 2008)

hell no but exact number can not be said


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## Scoobie Newbie (31 Jan 2008)

Understood but I would hate to see 1 for 10


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## George Wallace (31 Jan 2008)

6v53taddec said:
			
		

> Through no fault of their own, (due to necessity of training pers) but have ANY of you guys EVER experienced an HLVW wheeled driver course at CFSAL in January/February when the school starts about 20 to 30 of these trucks up at once....NO-ONE can breath a breath of clean fresh air on the Southside of Borden for the remainder of the morning till the air LITERALLY CLEARS!!!!!!!!!!



Nice pictures.  Energetic pep talk.  However, your inexperience is showing with this above statement.  Anyone who has been around any large number of Diesel vehicles will have gone through this type of experience at some time, so it is not restricted solely to the HL.  Some of that problem can be alleviated by a proper start up in cold weather conditions.  The Pre-Lube and warming up of Glow Plugs can cut down on a lot of that "polution".


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## QuIcKeR (31 Jan 2008)

these truck will not replace the HLVW in canada. right now they are for theater of ops and training here in canada


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## Scoobie Newbie (31 Jan 2008)

Seen, thanks


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## QuIcKeR (31 Jan 2008)

No problem man  ;D


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## 6v53taddec (31 Jan 2008)

George Wallace:

1. "However, your inexperience is showing with this above statement.  Anyone who has been around any large number of Diesel vehicles will have gone through this type of experience at some time, so it is not restricted solely to the HL."
   
A)  I have been a fully Inter-Provincially licenced automobile mechanic since 1989. B)  I have had an Ontario AZ (Heavy 18 Wheeler/air brake) licence for eight years, and C) have been around heavy machinery for  38 years.....and Cummins, Detroit, and Caterpillar, and now most certainly Merc Benz, and NOTHING, I MEAN NOTHING smokes like a cold Steyr!!!!!!!   The above pictures only show ONE producing ALL that smoke.......Yes, I agree, ALL diesels smoke a bit when cold...due to the nature/properties of diesel fuel and diesel engine combustion, BUT NOTHING smokes like a Steyr, in my 38 years I've NEVER seen anything else like it....except for maybe an LS!!!!!!LOL


2.   "Some of that problem can be alleviated by a proper start up in cold weather conditions.  The Pre-Lube and warming up of Glow Plugs can cut down on a lot of that "polution". "

YES!  But IS this ever performed.....at 1 SVC, CFSAL, CFSEME, just to name a few,  I have NEVER seen with my own eyes, anyone below the rank of Mcpl perform the "correct" cold start-up procedure on these trucks....ALL I EVER SEE is a lot of smoke!     

The "Inexperienced" comment was not taken kindly to/appreciated and is NOT an assumption one should make this day and age on the internet.  No-one can possibly know who they're dealing with on the other end of the keyboard.


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## newfin (31 Jan 2008)

6v53taddec, thanks for posting the pics - they are amazing looking machines - first I've seen of the actual, delivered vehicles.  I am going to have to find more pictures for the PC desktop.


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