# Irish Deputy PM:  No "special treatment" for CF flights thru Shannon



## The Bread Guy (19 Nov 2013)

Shared here in accordance with the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the _Copyright Act_


> The Tánaiste, Eamon Gilmore, has told the Dáil that no special deals will be done with Canadian military flights landing at Shannon.
> 
> Around half a dozen Canadian military flights land at the mid-west airport each year, but it is expected this number could now increase.
> 
> ...


breakingnews.ie, 19 Nov 13

This, from Parliamentary Questions in Ireland today - highlights mine:


> 86. *Deputy Clare Daly* asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade Eamon Gilmore if there is *a new special arrangement in place regarding refuelling for Canadian military aircraft at Shannon; if sovereign immunity has been granted to them by the Irish Government; the international law or treaty under which this is being permitted and whether it should not be superseded by our neutrality and the UN Convention against Torture*.  [48803/13]
> 
> 115. *Deputy Clare Daly* asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade Eamon Gilmore further to Parliamentary Question No. 727 of 5 November 2013, the basis for granting sovereign immunity; the law it is in accordance with; the way this impacts on Ireland's responsiblity to uphold international treaties like the Geneva Convention, Hague Convention and the UN Convention Against Torture. [48925/13]
> 
> ...



Here's a recent story about an American plane landing at Shannon taking some (political) flak- highlights mine ....


> ANTI-WAR campaigners in Limerick have said the unauthorised landing of *an armed US warplane* in Shannon last month proves American assurances over Irish neutrality are “worthless”.
> 
> Tanaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore confirmed by way of reply to a parliamentary question from Galway TD Derek Nolan that he has raised the issue “at the highest level” with the US government.
> 
> ...


_Limerick Leader_, 27 Oct 13

Who knew there's an organization - Shannonwatch - dedicated to helping keep armed foreign military planes out of Shannon airport?


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## pbi (19 Nov 2013)

The Irish actually take their neutrality pretty seriously In WWII they maintained forces to keep out the British AND the Germans.


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## calgary_Bill (24 Nov 2013)

Shannon was a common fuel stop and occasional crew rest for CC130's enroute to Lahr, Germany.  In the early 80s, I recall being closely inspected during each and every stop. We would not carry weapons, ammo, etc during these stops.  So nothing new here!


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## Jammer (24 Nov 2013)

Rather than deal with the politics of Ireland and transit flights, Prestwick in Scotland or the RAF transport hub of Brize Norton...(the RAF equivilant of Trenton), would seem viable options..no?


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## Edward Campbell (24 Nov 2013)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Rather than deal with the politics of Ireland and transit flights, Prestwick in Scotland or the RAF transport hub of Brize Norton...(the RAF equivilant of Trenton), would seem viable options..no?




Maybe Shannon is cheaper?  :dunno:


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## Jammer (24 Nov 2013)

That's OK, but it limits your options with regard to cargo that can be carried.


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## Kirkhill (24 Nov 2013)

I think it might be a bit closer to Gander than Prestwick and Brize Norton, perhaps that means a little less fuel and a little more cargo carried?

On the other hand Prestwick has always been popular with the USAF and its predecessor the USAAC.  If you look at the screen cap from Google Earth in 2005 you will see 3x C5 on the ground.

(and if you look to the buildings 1 kilometer to the south east of the end of runway 03 you will see my grandparents' place at Kirkhill)

Prestwick was a preferred location because it tended to be more free of fog than any other field in Britain (I can't speak for Ireland).

Edit:  This may have something to do with Canada not letting Ireland know about a ship we cast adrift on the high seas and which is headed for Ireland (with no engines and no transponder there is no heat trace, wake, sound or radio signal to assist in locating her).

Link


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## ModlrMike (24 Nov 2013)

Haven't we already used Prestiwick?


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## Kirkhill (24 Nov 2013)

Great golfing at Prestwick as well..... The Old Troon is about 5 km from the other end of the runways.


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## smale436 (24 Nov 2013)

"Haven't we already used Prestiwick?"

Yes. I had beers in both Prestwick and Shannon as the plane was refueled during our transit to and from Canada in 2011 for Op Mobile. Those poor airport bar staff were likely not expecting such brisk business at that hour. But they made good money that night!


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## Retired AF Guy (24 Nov 2013)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Edit:  This may have something to do with Canada not letting Ireland know about a ship we cast adrift on the high seas and which is headed for Ireland (with no engines and no transponder there is no heat trace, wake, sound or radio signal to assist in locating her).
> 
> Link



And possibly full of rats to boot!


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## tomahawk6 (25 Nov 2013)

Why not refuel in the Azores ?


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## 392 (25 Nov 2013)

Kind of interesting where they raise the issue of their neutrality pretty quickly, but yet have no issues sending their own military pers on Canadian courses or hosting our soldiers on their courses. While it's a little different than armed aircraft landing, it's still sending out vibes of "alliances"....


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## Occam (25 Nov 2013)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Why not refuel in the Azores ?



What I know about navigation can be fit on a Post-It note, but I do know that the Azores are far too south to be on a Great Circle route between the middle east and Canada.

While we're talking about alternates, why not Belfast?  They love Canadians, and it's part of the Commonwealth.

I'm not sure why Shannon is desired, unless it's cheap avgas?


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## The Bread Guy (25 Nov 2013)

Capt. Happy said:
			
		

> Kind of interesting where they raise the issue of their neutrality pretty quickly, but yet have no issues sending their own military pers on Canadian courses or hosting our soldiers on their courses. While it's a little different than armed aircraft landing, it's still sending out vibes of "alliances"....


If this is still happening, there must be a political layer with the opposition raising the concern that we may not hear about waaaaaay over here - although the incidents brought up in the thread would more than draw the eye.


			
				Occam said:
			
		

> tomahawk6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was curious, checked online, and Occam's right - see attached maps.  It's an extra 510 miles from Dubai (to pick a mid-east airport at random) to St. John's NF via Azores (6244 miles) compared to via Shannon (5734 miles).  Also, don't know if Azores has an airfield big enough to handle military traffic.


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## Jorkapp (25 Nov 2013)

> Also, don't know if Azores has an airfield big enough to handle military traffic.



Indeed they do. Lajes Field (LPLA) on the Azores is a Portuguese AF facility with a USAF Det, and has handled large aircraft B-52's, An-124's, and 747's. 

Again, it is an extra 500 miles. Extra fuel = less cargo = increased cost to move X amount of goods.


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