# CF-104's in Markham ,Ontario



## observor 69 (20 Nov 2007)

Found out the other day that Markham north of Toronto has an airport.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markham_Airport
Check it out on Google maps       http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=
and we find three or four CF-104's  ???   Did I mention it has a 2000 ft runway?

Anyone make any sense of this ?


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## Barracuda13 (20 Nov 2007)

When I was there last year, they were bringing a CF-5 in pieces. There is a small museum there but it s not advertised, might be that they are still working on it. And also I heard some of those planes belong to a private collector.


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## Loachman (20 Nov 2007)

There's a CF104 at the Staff College in Toronto, and no runway at all there.

I'm not sure what you want sense made of.


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## observor 69 (20 Nov 2007)

Loachman said:
			
		

> There's a CF104 at the Staff College in Toronto, and no runway at all there.
> 
> I'm not sure what you want sense made of.



Looks like my Google link doesn't take you to the airport, try this under Google maps then go hybrid.
43° 56′ 9″ N, 79° 15′ 44″ W

OK actually I count five 104s. Museum you say? Should be interesting to see how you  incorporate five 104 fuselages into some meaningfull display.


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## Barracuda13 (20 Nov 2007)

I remember the Starfighters, not all of them had CAF markings , one of them was Turkish AF, and I remember two CF-5s, and there was a lot of junk at the back, I don't know if they have restored any of those.


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## Loachman (20 Nov 2007)

One CF104 would be a more meaningful display than I have.

They have to start somewhere.


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## MAJONES (20 Nov 2007)

All of the a/c there are owned by a private collector (the same fellow that owns the airport).  There are about 4 104s (1 Turkish, 1 Belgian, 2 CF one of which was used at the tech school in Borden), there are 6-7 CF-5s in various states of decomposition (some look like they just came off the flight line while others are in very tiny bits), there are 2 Tweety birds, a Beech 18, the fuselage and wing roots of a Yale and various bits of other a/c.  It's kind of sad that most of these pieces of history are just left out in the elements and are showing deterioration due to it.  If anyone near there ever finds themselves in a playfully evil mood and wants to have a bit of fun just show up there and start taking pictures.  The owner is an, ah, ....interesting guy.... and he has been know to _introduce_ himself to amature photographers.  He seems to think that they are spys sent by the GTAA to gather evidence to help shut down his airport.   ;DI miss working there


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## observor 69 (21 Nov 2007)

Thanks MAJONES for the info.  Now that I can make sense of.  ;D


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## Sf2 (21 Nov 2007)

I have met the gentlemen who owns the place - pretty "interesting".

It is a private airport and he is a little paranoid about media etc...He also does the airshow circuit in a Vampire.  According to him, some of the "specimens" he has on the property are still flyable.


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## Ljealexander (21 Nov 2007)

Additional information on this airfield can be found at:

http://www.copanational.org/PlacesToFly/airport_view.php?ap_id=656

Interesting view from Google Maps. Thanks for bringing it up.

Regards,

L. Alexander


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## Bandit1 (22 Nov 2007)

A CF-104 and a CF-155 from the field taken earlier this year...

Bandit


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## SupersonicMax (22 Nov 2007)

Bandit1 said:
			
		

> A CF-104 and a *CF-155 * from the field taken earlier this year...
> 
> Bandit



It's actually CF-116.  The *CT*-155 is the Hawk

Max


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## Bandit1 (22 Nov 2007)

My bad, sorry, it's been a long day.

Bandit


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## Signalman150 (23 Nov 2007)

On the Google Map image, it looks like there is a Sabre next to the one starfighter that still has its wings.  That one I'd pay money to see; my dad worked on those in the late fifties w/ 421 Red Indian Sqn.


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## Bandit1 (23 Nov 2007)

When I was there I didn't see any Sabre, and the CF-5 beside the Turkish -104 wasn't there either.  In the field there were some -104 tails which I have some pics of somewhere, along with the fueselage's which were scattered around the field.  If I have some time next week I'll swing by the field and see if he'll allow me to take some pictures and get a complete and up to date inventory of what he's got there...

Bandit


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## George Wallace (23 Nov 2007)

At the sweep of the wings, I was thinking it was a MiG.  Seems that they have replaced the Sabre that was on the podium in Lahr, with a MiG, so it looks like they have been "making the rounds".


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## Signalman150 (23 Nov 2007)

George,

Interesting idea, but I checked the image on Google Earth, and stand by the assertion that it's a Sabre.  The Migs all had constant chord wings, as where you can see the tapering of the wing from root to tip on the Markham aircraft. Noticed too what I think is an old Beech Expeditor next to the two wingless Starfighters.


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## Bandit1 (23 Nov 2007)

Gents, 

With all due respect, you can't really rely on Google Earth for up to date images of a certain region.  Take CFB Cold Lake - if you take a look you'll see that they snap a picture of the airshow that was there a couple of years back.  With regards to the Markham airfield, the pieces that are in that image aren't what is at the location presently.  I was there this past summer and can attest to what was and what wasn't there.

Cheers, and when i go up on Monday I'll get some answers about what he's still got kicking around...cheers!  

Bandit


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## bartbandyrfc (24 Nov 2007)

This is my first post on the forum. I quite like it.

The Turkish 104s are likely Canadair versions and ex-CAF. Canada donated several to Turkey under a NATO assistance program.


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## K225 (5 Dec 2007)

Using Mike Hennigers locator on Aerial Visuals I get these photos : http://rides.webshots.com/album/416680669fQHtTd
These show Sabre 23301 a Mk V as well as others. Interesting pictures.


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## Bandit1 (8 Dec 2007)

Just got back from a visit to Markham.

The gentleman who runs the place is a nice  guy if you take the time to get to know him.  He confirmed that all the birds that are in the Google shot are present, however some are in varying stages of completeness.  Due to todays weather cons, going out to see them on an active air park wasn't permissible, but he has invited me back when the weather is better to take some photos of the planes - some time in the spring.

It turns out he is also the owner of a flyable Vampire, which I've seen in print.  That was when we got to talking about the Heritage Flight programs....but did you know that....

No jet powered military aircraft can be registered and flown in the country of its origin unless it is granted special permission by the DND?  I found this interesting, but when you look at teams like the Starfighters, and all the privately owned Sabres and T-33's stateside, it does make a lot of sense, doesn't it?  That is why the Americans come up here to buy our planes and then take them south of the border, and why many privately owned and flyable former CF planes in Museums aren't being allowed up in the air...fascinating, no?

Bandit


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## K225 (9 Dec 2007)

Wouldn't that make an interesting heritage flight for 2009, the Vampire, Mike Potters Sabre MkV, and a CF18.


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## geo (9 Dec 2007)

Had an uncle who flew one of the 1st Vampires in the RCAF - after a very successful war flying Mosquitos.

The Vampire didn't do to well


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## Loachman (9 Dec 2007)

A number of ex-Vampire pilots were present at 400 Squadron's annual Black Velvet dinner last Friday night. One of them once bailed out of one, and lived.


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## observor 69 (9 Dec 2007)

Bandit1 said:
			
		

> When I was there I didn't see any Sabre, and the CF-5 beside the Turkish -104 wasn't there either.  In the field there were some -104 tails which I have some pics of somewhere, along with the fueselage's which were scattered around the field.  If I have some time next week I'll swing by the field and see if he'll allow me to take some pictures and get a complete and up to date inventory of what he's got there...
> 
> Bandit



Which leads me to my original question, what the point in having bits of jet a/c  laying about? I must obviously be missing some obvious value in this situation.


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## geo (9 Dec 2007)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Which leads me to my original question, what the point in having bits of jet a/c  laying about? I must obviously be missing some obvious value in this situation.



Methinks the fella might be selling off the parts bit by bit to American flyers.


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## TCBF (9 Dec 2007)

- The outdoor a/c merely serve to keep you from looking for the Avro Arrow he has in the barn.

(I wish).


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## Bandit1 (10 Dec 2007)

The spares are actually parts to planes that haven't been fully put together yet - something that he plans on finishing next year at some point.



			
				TCBF said:
			
		

> - The outdoor a/c merely serve to keep you from looking for the Avro Arrow he has in the barn.
> 
> (I wish).



And even if he did...he'd have to register it in the US to be able to fly it...


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## TCBF (10 Dec 2007)

- Is that a law or a regulation?  Regulations exist to be changed.


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## Bandit1 (10 Dec 2007)

From what he told me it was a law - if anyone knows for sure I'd sure like to know.

Bandit


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## Bandit1 (10 Dec 2007)

From what my source in the Heritage Flight told me...



> There is no restriction on exRCAF aircraft unless it is in military colours, which requires specific permission.



So there you have it....cheers!

Bandit


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## K225 (16 Dec 2007)

The only issue is the ejection seats Transport Canada does not allow them in civilian aircraft so any military jets have to have the seats deactivated. The Sabre at Vintage  Wings will have a ejection seat since they are working in conjunction with DND on the Golden Hawk Sabre for 2009.


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## SupersonicMax (16 Dec 2007)

K225, the civilian Alpha Jets used by Top Aces do have an ejection seat and they are civilian registered.

Max


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## aesop081 (16 Dec 2007)

K225 said:
			
		

> The only issue is the ejection seats Transport Canada does not allow them in civilian aircraft so any military jets have to have the seats deactivated.



Source ?


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