# Ariel Sharon, 1928-2014, R.I.P.



## FredDaHead (4 Jan 2006)

_Mod edit of thread title to reflect latest developments_

SOURCE: www.cnn.com



> Sharon suffers 'significant' stroke
> Power transferred to Israel's deputy prime minister
> 
> JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Power has been transferred from Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert after Sharon suffered a "significant stroke" Wednesday and was under anesthesia and on a respirator, officials said.
> ...



Sounds like trouble could be brewing in the Middle East... I'm not too familiar with the new Acting PM, but any instability in the Middle East is bad. Any input from those of you who are more knowledgeable in those things?

(Note to the mods: I apologize if this belongs somewhere else. It just seemed the most logical place to put the topic in.)


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## Infanteer (4 Jan 2006)

Wow...just when it appeared he was going to lead a shift in Israeli politics.... :-\


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## Shec (4 Jan 2006)

> I'm not too familiar with the new Acting PM



Ehud Olmert, 60 years old, is considered a moderate in Sharon's Likud party.   He is  a lawyer and a former infantry officer.   Former Minister of Health and Minister without Portfolio with responsibilities for minority affairs (1988-1993), mayor of Jerusalem (1993-2003), and currently Deputy PM and Minister of Trade & Commerce.


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## Dog (5 Jan 2006)

Sharon is 77 years old.... what do people expect?



			
				Frederik G said:
			
		

> SOURCE: www.cnn.com
> 
> Sounds like trouble could be brewing in the Middle East... I'm not too familiar with the new Acting PM, but any instability in the Middle East is bad. Any input from those of you who are more knowledgeable in those things?



"Sounds like trouble could be brewing in the middle east......"

Are you kidding? The Middle East?? In trouble?!? Nah..... that area of the world is as calm as the south pacific.


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## FredDaHead (6 Jan 2006)

I meant trouble outside the regular "someone attacks someone else, there's a counterattack" repeated ad nauseam. Like, say, Iran taking advantage of the situation..


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## baseballinahat (8 Jan 2006)

I was hoping Peres would take over. He is in Sharons new party, isn't he? Plus hes a moderate.


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## tomahawk6 (8 Jan 2006)

No Israeli politician will risk an Iranian nuclear attack. I dont care if they are a hardliner or so called moderate, if Iran is close to a nuclear weapon Israel will act to try to defang Iran. The clock is running.


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## baseballinahat (8 Jan 2006)

I think they are nuclear ready. Hes a little too open with his hatred of the Jews. Maybe now that he has nuclear arms hes not scared of how hes seen by the rest of the world.


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## 3rd Herd (9 Jan 2006)

as of 0630 mtn time "doctors are bringing him out of his medically induced coma and he has shown physical movement and response to the left side of his body" Canada AM


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## 291er (12 Jan 2006)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> No Israeli politician will risk an Iranian nuclear attack. I dont care if they are a hardliner or so called moderate, if Iran is close to a nuclear weapon Israel will act to try to defang Iran. The clock is running.



Totally agree there....look at what happened when Iraq did the same thing at Osirak......they did'nt hesitate then either.  Although Iran is a different can of worms too, let's hope it does'nt come to blows, because there would possibly be global ramifications.....should be interesting either way


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## Edward Campbell (11 Jan 2014)

Breaking news: Ariel Sharon has just died.

He was a helluva soldier.


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## V_I_Lenin (11 Jan 2014)

His visit to the Temple Mount/Haram al Sharif in 2000 is a day I will not soon forget...dodging burning cars and rioters in the aftermath while driving a UN-marked pickup truck!


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## Edward Campbell (11 Jan 2014)

Gordian knots, and all that. They didn't call him the "bulldozer" for nothing.






Relentless battle: Moshe Dayan and Ariel Sharon (right) during the Yom Kippur War
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-564668/Israel-60-Its-hard-speak-celebration-blood-spilt.html#ixzz2q6graxex


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## tomahawk6 (12 Jan 2014)

A great General and servant of Israel.


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## Edward Campbell (12 Jan 2014)

This article, which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from _Project Syndicate_, provides military analyst Edward Luttwak's views on Ariel Sharon as a tactician and leader:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/edward-n-luttwak-remembers-the-military-genius-of-ariel-sharon


> The Ingenious General
> 
> Edward Luttwak
> 
> ...




Edward N. Luttwak describes Ariel Sharon the master tactician, but Sharon was also a _strategist_. Ironically, perhaps, his _strategy_ was a copy of Anwar Sadat's: it was, essentially, to ignore the long term (which may appear to be a bad strategy) and upset the apple cart of the _status quo_. Both Sadat and Sharon understood that the _status quo_ guarantees almost everything except the peace which many Middle East observers, especially many Egyptians and Israelis, want. So each took bold, perhaps even counter-productive actions, to upset everything and create a new "playing field." That the _ststus quo_ won, eventually, does not mean their strategy was bad: juts that the "enemy," the nature of the region, itself, is too strong.


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## pbi (14 Jan 2014)

There is no denying his tactical acumen. There are two aspects to Sharon that we aren't talking about here. They seem contradictory. 

One was his 2004 "Unilateral Disengagement Plan" to pull settlers and troops out of the Gaza, which no doubt earned him some serious enemies in the hard-line Zionist camp, even though the Knesset eventually passed it. I think he understood that Israel had to be willing to make these kinds of decisions if it truly wanted lasting peace that didn't have to be fought for every ten years. That said, IIRC the plan caused some discipline problems in the IDF when soldiers balked at forcibly removing settlers.

The other was his earlier involvement in the Sabra and Shatila camp massacres in Lebanon in 1982. The Israeli government commission found him responsible for what had happened, in that he reasonably should have known what the Falange militia would do if they could get inside the camps with nobody to stop them. Beyond that, the IDF forces under his command seem to have established a cordon to stop the occupants of the camps from escaping, and to have fired illumination missions over the camps (allegedly in support of the Falange). In the end he had to resign as MND, but stayed on in the govt.

It seems difficult to reconcile the two, unless maybe what happened in 1982 made him reflect on the bigger picture.


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## Edward Campbell (14 Jan 2014)

Someone, I can't find the quote right now, reflecting on Sharon's contradictory legacy, said something like "he prepared Israel to survive in its own neighbourhood ... he taught it to live and fight by the often brutal 'rules of the game' there."

I think that's right: the modern Middle East is no place for any _namby pamby_, Paul Heinbecker type of diplomacy. Sharon was the right man for his time and place. 

He also reminded his colleagues that, in war, Israel must use its strengths - brutally fast, aggressive, bold manoeuvre, not follow the advice of allies.

Edit: typo


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## Infanteer (14 Jan 2014)

His tactical successes definitely reinforce the dictum "don't worry about your flanks, let the enemy worry about his"....


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