# Canadian National Drill Team



## tomahawk6 (20 Nov 2008)

A couple of nice videos of the Canadian National Drill Team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnF0J1tnkwI

RCMP Drill Team followed by the CNDT at the International Military Tattoo in Halifax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEIudTbw2yA


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## medaid (20 Nov 2008)

Who knew we had a National Drill Team? 

Compared to other countries' drill teams ours do lack a little bit of the flair to it. Considering it's a demonstration drill team, there should be more 'monkey' drill involved IMHO. 

Although the dismounted cavalry drill looked nice and sharp.


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Nov 2008)

Just a guess here, but isn't this the Ceremonial Guard?  I know a few Class B types that were 'tasked' to it for the summer in Ottawa.

While I will say "good job", I can't honestly say this Drill Team is in the same league as some of the ones I've seen at the NS International Tattoo, etc.  Time and resources limit their ability to train I guess.

This is one of my favorite drill team videos.  Its sharp, its fairly involved and long, and for the most part, flawless.  The other thing is, its during a major sporting event and you can hear the crowd throughout.  I don't know about anyone else, but I think we kind of miss that opportunity here in Canada some (from the Drill Team perspective, I realize we have CF mbrs at events like this).

Even at the NS International Tattoo, which I've gone to now every year since 2002, we don't have our own drill team there, and the ones that are there are usually very very good.  There was a team from Norway a few years back IIRC that was extremely impressive.


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## daftandbarmy (20 Nov 2008)

A slight tangent to put a plug in for a conuning emphasis on good drill and deportment:

"At some stage in all wars armies have let their discipline
sag, but they have never won victory until they make it taut
again; nor will they. We found it a great mistake to belittle
the importance of smartness in turn-out, alertness of
carriage, cleanliness of person, saluting, or precision of
movement, and to dismiss them as naïve, unintelligent
parade ground stuff. I do not believe that troops can have
unshakable battle discipline without showing these
outward signs, which mark the pride men take in
themselves and their units and the mutual confidence and
respect that exists between them and their officers. The
best fighting units, in the long run, were not necessarily
those with the most advertised reputations, but those who,
when they came out of battle at once resumed a more
formal discipline and appearance."

Field Marshal Sir William Slim, Defeat Into Victory, 1956
http://www.sandhurst.mod.uk/files/qc.pdf


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## davidk (20 Nov 2008)

Having been somewhat involved in the predecessor to this team, namely the team that was put together by the Ceremonial Guard in 2006, I can say that these guys are doing a great job for the amount of time they had to put it together. Two factors that will influence the result, though, are that 1) a C7 does not have the same balance as an M1, so spinning it around and throwing it doesn't work out too well, and 2) the nature of CF drill doesn't translate well into showy drill team routines. The rifle in the shoulder, not sloped, looks awkward, and weapons drill on the march is done on every left foot, while the USMC team does it every foot. It contributes to a much slower pace. Still, kudos to the team for doing the best with what they had.


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## PMedMoe (20 Nov 2008)

I love that the first song at the Halifax Tattoo that the RCMP are marching to is the theme song from Police Academy!  ;D


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## medaid (20 Nov 2008)

Perhaps NOT the C7 but the En Field? The M1s are all balanced and machined to be good DP rifles, so why can't we do the same with the En Fields? Just curious. I've done monkeying with En Fields, and they're nice and sharp.


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Nov 2008)

Can you define monkeying for me?  I've never heard that one.


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## davidk (20 Nov 2008)

Monkeying is all the spins, twirls, tosses and otherwise gratuitous movements that any RSM would have an aneurysm if he saw them..


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Nov 2008)

HighlandIslander said:
			
		

> Having been somewhat involved in the predecessor to this team, namely the team that was put together by the Ceremonial Guard in 2006, I can say that these guys are doing a great job for the amount of time they had to put it together. Two factors that will influence the result, though, are that 1) a C7 does not have the same balance as an M1, so spinning it around and throwing it doesn't work out too well, and 2) the nature of CF drill doesn't translate well into showy drill team routines. The rifle in the shoulder, not sloped, looks awkward, and weapons drill on the march is done on every left foot, while the USMC team does it every foot. It contributes to a much slower pace. Still, kudos to the team for doing the best with what they had.



I am far from a drill SME, but I've always assumed that the drill the USMC Silent Drill Team does is seperate from the drill a Marine would do in a Rifle Coy on parade?  (Assume is the key word there 8)).

Is the drill the Ceremonial Guards do not somewhat...modified?  

I agree with your points that the nature of our drill doesn't translate to showy drill teams, and that our folks do well with what they have.  



			
				HighlandIslander said:
			
		

> Monkeying is all the spins, twirls, tosses and otherwise gratuitous movements that any RSM would have an aneurysm if he saw them..



hahaha.  too true!


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## davidk (20 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I am far from a drill SME, but I've always assumed that the drill the USMC Silent Drill Team does is seperate from the drill a Marine would do in a Rifle Coy on parade?  (Assume is the key word there 8)).
> 
> Is the drill the Ceremonial Guards do not somewhat...modified?
> 
> ...



It is true, the drill you see the USMC drill team performing isn't the same as most Marines would use on parade - it's modified specifically for that purpose. From my experience, the drill done by the Guard, though, is pretty close to the drill pam - there were some exceptions, but it wasn't stuff that really stood out on parade all that much - for example, in 2007 (and this stuff changes every year, by the way...) when coming to attention, the weapon was brought to a vertical position parallel to the right leg while the left leg goes up, instead of while the left leg comes down.

The only problem I can see with using a Lee-Enfield for this sort of thing would be that everyone would have to learn a whole bunch of new (and by new I mean OLD) drill...slope arms and all that. Still, a bunch of polished No.4 Mk 1 rifles would look much sharper than the C7A1s carried right now; if they're the same ones they used two years ago, then they're old, with scratched butts (replaceable, I know...) and badly in need of blueing.


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## medaid (21 Nov 2008)

Honestly, weapons drills are pretty much all similar. If a Cadet can do En Field drill with pazzzaz then surely one of us can handle it too ;D

An En Field properly polished, maintained, and with a white strap looks SHARP. It corresponds nicely with the whites that the troops are wearing already. If we (CF) seriously looked into it, I'm sure someone can take some broken down En Fields machine them, and restore them to proper DP purposes. Balanced and all. 

I've always toyed with the idea that Areas should hold drill competitions allowing each unit to assemble a drill team compete at the area level and then at the national level. 

It would consists of compulsory routine that's decided by the area, a silent routine where no commands are given but straight drilling on the team's part, and then an actual routine that is not meant to please the RSMs. 

Compulsory: Commands are given by the Drill Team Commander. The team is assessed on how well they follow the commands of the commander, and the commander is assessed on the performance of the drill team in general. This is a CFP-201 section, where timing, precision and movements have to correspond to the those set forth in the 201.

Silent: Commands are not given. The team performs a routine set forth by themselves. They can do what ever they want provided that it is a movement found in the drill pam. This is another CFP-201 section. The individual movements have to follow the 201, however, squad or platoon movements does not. However formations conducted by the team must be a formation found in the 201. i.e. Right Form, Left Wheel etc.

Show Off: The team performs a routine that is not meant to follow the 201. Shortcuts can be taken. This is meant to be a SHOW OFF routine where the team gets to demonstrate how good they are. Drill movements have to be performed, however, things like the twirling of the rifle, funky present arms are allowed and can be mixed matched. This is marked as ENTERTAINMENT VALUE. It will NOT be judged based on 201 standards. 


I think it would be a morale booster... just me though. Just me...


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## Infanteer (21 Nov 2008)

Enfield is one word.  It was just bugging me.   :-*


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## Michael OLeary (21 Nov 2008)

I always preferred the Martini Henry for a nicely balanced drill weapon.  It also had the reach and mass for a good bayonet thrust.   ;D



> The New Land Service Musket, the Martini-Henry, and the Lee-Enfield had certain common attributes, they were well balanced for drill and had the mass and solidity necessary for use with their bayonets. The Martini-Henry, for example, massed four kilograms (9 lbs) and was 126 cm (4' 1 1/2") long, this weapon mounted a 56 cm (22-inch) triangular or sword bayonet, bringing its full mass to almost 4.5 kilograms (10 lbs). This weapon would be wielded by a British soldier averaging 163 cm (5’4"),  making bayonet fighting a heavy and tiring task for a man with a shoulder bruised by recoil, hands burned by the hot barrel and a parched throat at the close of a hot day’s action.
> 
> Through World Wars One and Two, the British Lee Enfield was a standard infantry small arm, it also massed about four kilograms. In its various models the Lee-Enfield sported a 17-inch sword bayonet (1902-1914), an 8-inch cruciform spike (1940) and the 8-inch round spike or sword style bayonets (1946). The Lee-Enfield No. 4 was 113 cm (3’5½") in length, with its shorter bayonets the soldier of 1940 had lost 22 inches (56 cm) in reach enjoyed by his counterpart of 1879. In 1954, the FN gave up another eight centimetres in reach.


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## brihard (21 Nov 2008)

I was part of this team the first summer it existed.

It's a secondary task of the Ceremonial Guard organization. In 2006 we put together the silent drill team under the instruction of a former RSM of CG who had come back in a civilian capacity to work on this- we got about four weeks of practice on sporadic afternoons after the Changing of the Guard in which to put together and practice the routine. But like I said, it was a secondary task that came after the guard mount, duty at Rideau Hall, as well as courses that were being run in the organization. For all that it turned out pretty decently.

I've not done CG since then, so I'm not sure what they do now in terms of dedicating people and time towards doing this. In order for it to be one of the truly sharp performances like you see the Marines doing, it would pretty much have to be a full time tasking for the troops involved, and the Lee Enfield would probably be a better choice of rifle as previously discussed.

CG, from what I gather, has been seriously hurting for the past couple of years. TF 3-08 has stripped a lot of the excess manpower that has traditionally backfilled the Class B posns that the GGFG couldn't fill, and of course the GGFG have a number of members over here right now as well who were CG regulars prior to this, so that's two summers running now that CG has had to fight both the roto and already undermanned battleschools for personnel. From what I understand they were actually populated by RegF Pat Pl. personnel this past summer, though efforts are underway to hand it back almost entirely to the GGFG and CGG. 

HighlandIslander- Hey man, good to see you still kicking around. How's life?


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## IntlBr (21 Nov 2008)

I wouldn't be overly certain about the return to GGFG and CGG (WRT positions).  After working as the CO's driver this summer, I can tell you that its moving in a rather different direction.

Watch and Shoot!


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## daftandbarmy (21 Nov 2008)

It would be interesting to put forth an argument that a standing 'Drill Team' for the Army is an important part of community footprint activities, on par with the Air Force's Snowbirds or the RCMP's Musical Ride. Maybe even something like this: http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3555


Throw in a Navy 'Gun Run' competition (or something better that a more qualified Navy person could suggest) and a bit of band stuff and you'd have a pretty impressive 'purple' display team.


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## medaid (21 Nov 2008)

Gun run occurs every BC Day if my memory serves. The RM has a demonstration team.


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