# New CBC Show-Between Hope and Fear



## NL_engineer (22 Mar 2008)

This show is on Easter Sunday at 2000 hrs EST (TV Guide Link); I seen an interview with the film maker for the show on the Hour last night.  It looks good, I just hope all the Taliban interviewed have had their date with a 500 lbs bomb  ;D


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## derael (22 Mar 2008)

I'll be watching for sure. Hopefully it will be a correct and accurate portrayal of the real situation.


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## Mike Baker (22 Mar 2008)

I'll tune into it.


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## aesop081 (22 Mar 2008)

derael said:
			
		

> Hopefully it will be a correct and accurate portrayal of the real situation.



 :rofl:

You know its the CBC right ?

*_Milnet.ca staff edit for site policy_*


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## NL_engineer (22 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :rofl:
> 
> You know its the CBC right ?



I think the film maker is an independent, but that hasn't stopped CBC from twisting shows in the past  :


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## NL_engineer (23 Mar 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> I think the film maker is an independent, but that hasn't stopped CBC from twisting shows in the past  :



WOW I was way wrong  :

Not even 10 Min in and CBC is taking cheep shots at us.  They just showed the USMC shooting up the place, and made it sound like it was us, then said it is a daily occurrence  :


Edited to add

Now they are making the Taliban out to be good


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## Trinity (23 Mar 2008)

To be fair... they are showing Canadian contributions

A Canadian funded school
The child who was sent to Canada for heart transplant (now being threatened by the Taliban)


I tuned it a bit late and missed the American shot up the place part.


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## Trinity (23 Mar 2008)

Ok...  I resign to the previous comments.  

I apparently was watching one hour behind.  
So ONE HANDED reporting. 

Since when did the CBC become Military analysts using a few hand held video cameras???
They mention 1 Canadian killed in Ambush and show some video but fail to state that
we repelled the ambush or enemy killed?

Liberal CRAP.


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## RHFC_piper (23 Mar 2008)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Ok...  I resign to the previous comments.
> 
> I apparently was watching one hour behind.
> So ONE HANDED reporting.
> ...





Seems pretty defeatist...  They just constantly return to the "un-winnable war" rhetoric.  

This almost seems like Taliban/anti-coalition/anti-western propaganda... very subtle, but fairly one sided.

Disappointing.


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## Pikache (23 Mar 2008)

Wow. One sided


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## beenthere (23 Mar 2008)

It appeared to look at the many complex issues that when are all blended together make up Afghanistan. I have no idea if it's an accurate portrayal of the issue or not but it certainly makes the place look as if it needs some long term care in order to allow security, fundamental education, health care and other basic needs to replace the previous system which only exploited people and allowed it to become a base for radical organizations. 
If the intent of the documentary was to show why we should be involved it certainly did that. 
The issues that it covered are the core of the problem and I doubt if all of these things have been brought together in one program that has been presented to Canadians. 
However, I've never been there and have never had the opportunity to have an insiders view as to what goes on so maybe it"s all b.s.


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## OldSolduer (23 Mar 2008)

I tuned in late, but the tone of the narrarrator says it all, doesn't it? Plus the "sons of the sons of the taliban" comment that infers this war is not a winning propsotion. She doesn't come out and say it but...it is inferred.


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## midget-boyd91 (23 Mar 2008)

The preview they showed earlier today was enough to keep me from watching it. Just from that I got all that un-winnable B.S, so I just steered clear, and went out to the town's 3 Timmies.

Midget


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## Pikache (23 Mar 2008)

Just finished watching the rerun and this one might as well be made by NDP


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## beenthere (24 Mar 2008)

What I got from it was mostly how the country is so crippled by tradition, corruption and lack of infrastructure and that there is no viable economy. It showed how some people have had the courage to go against the grain and try to establish educational, medical and economic upstarts despite the prevailing powers of the established few who don't want progress.


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## AirCanuck (24 Mar 2008)

I missed it - worth watching or no?


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## RHFC_piper (24 Mar 2008)

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> I missed it - worth watching or no?



I'd say yes... worth watching.  Although it has a negative perspective of the NATO/Canadian mission, it does show some interesting aspects of life in Afghanistan.  Some of the other stuff we don't commonly see here in Canada.  For that, it's worth taking a look.

It does seem a little bleak in its outlook on everything, and it always seems to point to the "when will the foreigners leave?" question, but it has some good videography and some interesting views of life outside of the standard Afghanistan most people think of... for example; Kabul University (and Kabul itself); a polar opposite from the "wild wild west" of Kandahar province.  Really interesting to see the difference between the dusty mud huts, pot and poppy fields, and third world/dark ages conditions in Kandahar compared to the relatively modern, and more "western"/conventional city look to Kabul. 

At first view; this documentary seemed like the standard CBC take on the mission, with all the normal "we're not going to win" rhetoric and the "leave Afghanistan" comments, but when you weed all that out, it does have some interesting information... you just have to "read between the lines"... SOP for CBC docs.

One thing that really bothered the hell out of me, and it's not just the CBC, but everyones view of "the war".  When people say; "do you think *we're* going to win", or "*We're* not going to win this one" or any other comment like that.
This isn't a conventional war.  It's not really Us vs Them, like wars past.  This is a war on ideas for the sake of political. moral and religious liberty and the inalienable human right to freedom of choice and freedom from oppression... we're not fighting the Taliban, we're holding them back so that the population can sort out their own identity and decide what works best for their country, by choice, with out the fear of radical Islamic dictatorship and oppression being rammed down their throat.  
So, who will win in the end? Not Canada.  Or the US... Or even NATO.  We're all going to end up losing lives and money...  No, no.  The winner of this war will inevitably be the people of Afghanistan.  When they can stand on their own, politically, economically and militarily, then we will have completed our mission, but they will have "won the war".  They will reap the benefit, they will gain the most.  
So when CBC states; "we're not going to win this one"... well... thank you captain obvious... it appears you have either missed the point or have misunderstood the mission.   How can NATO or its backing countries claim 'victory' unless we're taking over the place... A: we can't, 'cause it's not our victory... it's theirs...   But thanks for dumbing down the situation to the lowest common denominator.

Anyway,  back to the topic at hand.  Worth watching, but watch with an open mind and take it all with a grain of salt.  There's a lot more information out there that the CBC is missing, or has cut due to sensationalism, liberalism and the lack of time.


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## 2 Cdo (24 Mar 2008)

Sorry folks, but the only thing on CBC that contains even a hint of reality is HNIC. Anything else is just Liberal, left wing pablum to be spoon fed to the unwashed masses. 

I knew this would be shit before it even came on, and I'm glad I didn't waste my time viewing it based on the reviews so far.


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## Mike Baker (24 Mar 2008)

Hmm, after reading some comments on here, it's a good thing I forgot to watch it.


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## Redeye (24 Mar 2008)

It wasn't too bad - made use of a lot of really odd stock footage that made me scratch my head a little.  There's so much current footage of the deployment why they would use old stuff I don't know.  It painted a fairly grim picture, but it seems that the future is not entirely rosy there.  It did oversimplify things greatly though, it didn't talk at all about tribal/ethnic issues - one of the people they followed was an aid worker in Bamiyam dealing with the Hazara (incidently, National Geographic recently did an insightful piece about the Hazara people, a couple of months ago I think), but it didn't talk about where Bamiyan is, what the situation there is like, or give much other depth.  Of course, being a two hour doc it was a pretty narrow view so you can't expect too much.  I didn't see it as being especially negative though, it was overall worth watching.


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## MarkOttawa (24 Mar 2008)

It was odd that amidst the droning doom and gloom of the CBC program that no mention was made of the progress in training the Afghan National Army. The fight is not really between "us" (the West) and the Taliban; it's ultimately between the Afghans themselves and we're simply trying to give the rather better (though far from perfect side) side a good chance of coming out on top.

As for the doom and gloom about the general situation in the country, I'm awaiting the CBC documentary implying strongly that helping this country (guess which, *do not read the link below*) is futile:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/world/europe/05kosovo.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1


> ...
> For years the electricity grid has been so unreliable that just keeping the lights on in his retail stores has been a daily struggle...
> 
> Even if...can overcome those political hurdles, its economy has been so devastated by war that it imports even staples like milk and meat. It is ranked by Transparency International, the Berlin-based anticorruption watchdog, as the world’s fourth most corrupt economy, after Cameroon, Cambodia and Albania. Whether...can build a successful economy will help determine whether it can become a full-fledged country...or will remain a poor adopted orphan of the West...
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## AirCanuck (24 Mar 2008)

> One thing that really bothered the hell out of me, and it's not just the CBC, but everyones view of "the war".  When people say; "do you think we're going to win", or "We're not going to win this one" or any other comment like that.
> This isn't a conventional war.  It's not really Us vs Them, like wars past.  This is a war on ideas for the sake of political. moral and religious liberty and the inalienable human right to freedom of choice and freedom from oppression... we're not fighting the Taliban, we're holding them back so that the population can sort out their own identity and decide what works best for their country, by choice, with out the fear of radical Islamic dictatorship and oppression being rammed down their throat.
> So, who will win in the end? Not Canada.  Or the US... Or even NATO.  We're all going to end up losing lives and money...  No, no.  The winner of this war will inevitably be the people of Afghanistan.  When they can stand on their own, politically, economically and militarily, then we will have completed our mission, but they will have "won the war".  They will reap the benefit, they will gain the most.
> So when CBC states; "we're not going to win this one"... well... thank you captain obvious... it appears you have either missed the point or have misunderstood the mission.   How can NATO or its backing countries claim 'victory' unless we're taking over the place... A: we can't, 'cause it's not our victory... it's theirs...   But thanks for dumbing down the situation to the lowest common denominator.



I couldn't have said it better myself, that's exactly how I feel.  People seem to be looking for a 'victory' but they have to realize that we are not taking over a territory, we're stabilizing one - which unfortunately, as you mentioned, involves 'holding back' the taliban so the people can make their own choices without fear - and this cannot involve victory for those doing this work (except I suppose the Afghani soldiers themselves).



> It was odd that amidst the droning doom and gloom of the CBC program that no mention was made of the progress in training the Afghan National Army



you took the words right out of my mouth.  It seemed odd noone had mentioned it yet.


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## MarkOttawa (24 Mar 2008)

Here's the full website for the programme,
http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/afghanistan/index.html

with videos of the segments here:
http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/afghanistan/video.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## NL_engineer (24 Mar 2008)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> It was odd that amidst the droning doom and gloom of the CBC program that no mention was made of the progress in training the Afghan National Army.



That would defeat the point  :.  That would actually show something that we are doing; not implying we are shooting the place up  :


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## Franko (24 Mar 2008)

I sat there and watched it whilst sipping a few Corona last night.

Never thought I'd hear such defeatist rhetoric from the CBC. My wife left the room.

Hate to have heard the same if I was around in '38-'45. Imagine the outcome from that....we'd be goose stepping now.

Regards


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## sgf (24 Mar 2008)

This program was mainly about the citizens of the country, the appaling state they live in, the poverty, and what was being done via the different aid agencies. I can certainly understand why posters here are upset over certain elements of the program, but what was wrong with showing the living conditions and the work of the aid workers? Was that not depicted correctly?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> This program was mainly about the citizens of the country, the appaling state they live in, the poverty, and what was being done via the different aid agencies. I can certainly understand why posters here are upset over certain elements of the program, but what was wrong with showing the living conditions and the work of the aid workers? Was that not depicted correctly?



To whom are you asking? I didn't see anyone bitch about that................


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## midgetcop (24 Mar 2008)

Which begs the question - does the media ( in this case, the CBC) simply follow general public opinion and slant their "documentaries" in that direction, or does the media influence and form general public opinion itself? Or is it an endless cycle?


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## sgf (24 Mar 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> To whom are you asking? I didn't see anyone ***** about that................



I am asking anyone that watched the program and cares to answer.


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## MarkOttawa (24 Mar 2008)

sgf: I'm eagerly awaiting the CBC documentary on Kosovo (see above), also a current NATO theatre, and scene--along with Serbia proper--of an aerial bombing campaign in 1999 of which Canada was a part.  

Also, this was not depicted at all (the March story too late, but the February?):

Afghan Pop Idol winner declared
BBC, March 21
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7309029.stm

Afghanistan's Pop Idol breaks barriers
BBC, Feb. 25
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7262967.stm

A bit of real cheer that might help have relieved the general gloom.  A bit more on this would have been in order too:

Cell-phone use booming in Afghanistan
Service providers bring communication to poor villagers
AP, August 28, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20479899/

Then there's this the program missed:

Canadian Forces advisory team adopts Kabul orphanage (been going on for some time, story date irrelevant)
Montreal _Gazette_, March 23
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=36778fe2-c65b-4edc-9755-d36138c2fea2&k=51098

Mark
Ottawa


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## AirCanuck (24 Mar 2008)

the_midge said:
			
		

> Which begs the question - does the media ( in this case, the CBC) simply follow general public opinion and slant their "documentaries" in that direction, or does the media influence and form general public opinion itself? Or is it an endless cycle?


Brother, I could write papers on that.  In fact, I have.  The short answer is that very little of what gets through in the media is objective, almost all of it serves a higher purpose to corporations since most media companies are only a subsidiary of larger groups.  Generally these groups have investments, if not ownerships, in certain fields that are damaged by different stories, and thus these stories are thrust to the back-line, or not told at all.  The focus is usually on stories that will help these companies turn a profit.

Media is also often controlled by its investors/advertisers.  If a company that invests in the paper/TV station doesn't like the story and threatens to pull their financial support if this show airs, the media will quite often pull the story as, in the end, they are not a public service - they are another company looking to turn a profit.

This is a VERY short answer to that question - for more on this read anything by Chomsky, specifically his points on the ways in which media is controlled.

It may sound like conspiracy theory, but believe me, it isn't.


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## MarkOttawa (24 Mar 2008)

Chomsky is not to be taken seriously--a guest-post at _Daimnation!_:

Noam Chomsky deconstructed
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/006796.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## AirCanuck (24 Mar 2008)

I understand that much of what he says is overblown and sensationalized (sorry, I haven't read that link yet, but I will)

HOWEVER

Some of the baselines of what he says are unquestionably true.  As well, he certainly isn't the only source who would say those things, he is simply the most ... outspoken I suppose?  First one that came to mind anyhow.  Regardless, I don't believe for a second that much of what comes through the media does so without a political or business agenda (avoiding the word corporate here because I am not anti-corporation, but if you use that in this sort of topic it seems to have certain connotations.)


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## armyvern (24 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> I am asking anyone that watched the program and cares to answer.



No you're not. Just who is "complaining that living conditions were shown??" You asked "what is the problem with showing that??" Tell me this then, WHO said there was a problem with showing it?? No one here. Where, exactly, was this complaint made of "having a problem with showing living conditions" made at? 

Not a single person here said anything about "living conditions", rather the bitch can be found here ... Yet again, you are putting words into people's mouths and ignoring the "facts" of actual posts made by them.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/72276/post-691731.html#msg691731

You are once again, spinning a thread in another trolling attempt & you got called on it.

Obviously, previous "unofficial" warnings on trolling have not worked.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


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## PuckChaser (25 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> I am asking anyone that watched the program and cares to answer.



There's a certain way to present information like that in a clear, informative matter without spitting on the lives of the 81 soldiers who gave up their lives to try to help that country out. The CBC missed that angle, and reported the conditions in a way that made it look like NATO was a direct result of their hardships, and that Afghanistan would be a first world country without us there.


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## armyvern (25 Mar 2008)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> There's a certain way to present information like that in a clear, informative matter without spitting on the lives of the 81 soldiers who gave up their lives to try to help that country out. The CBC missed that angle, and reported the conditions in a way that made it look like NATO was a direct result of their hardships, and that Afghanistan would be a first world country without us there.



Good answer, except for the fact that no one here actually made that particular complaint about the program.


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## AirCanuck (25 Mar 2008)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> There's a certain way to present information like that in a clear, informative matter without spitting on the lives of the 81 soldiers who gave up their lives to try to help that country out. The CBC missed that angle, and reported the conditions in a way that made it look like NATO was a direct result of their hardships, and that Afghanistan would be a first world country without us there.



extremely well put.  shame noone brought that up earlier.


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## sgf (25 Mar 2008)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> There's a certain way to present information like that in a clear, informative matter without spitting on the lives of the 81 soldiers who gave up their lives to try to help that country out. The CBC missed that angle, and reported the conditions in a way that made it look like NATO was a direct result of their hardships, and that Afghanistan would be a first world country without us there.



When I watched the program I didnt get the sense that it tried to blame  NATO for anything. I didnt feel that program was primarily about NATO  but about the aid workers and their efforts to help the people have a better way of life. NATO was mentioned but only secondardy. I had read about the Afghanistan Idol article, and I think that Lima was extremely brave to participate and it will be interested to see if she suffers any reprussicions over taking part.  There was another link on the same page as the Idol one and some interesting things were said 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6763865.stm

so while I do think that its a good thing that there can be an Idol program there, more cellphone use, and all of that.. the main concerns are what was shown in the CBC program.. lack of an abundance of water, corruption, no electricity, and poor health care. I think the program concentrated on those aspects and what Western Aid can and should do to towards those efforts. In other words, sure strides have been made,but after this program and reading the articles this week in the Globe, lets hope the Western World realizes what a great amount of time, money and sadly lives will have to be given to achieve any difference in Afghanistan.


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## sgf (25 Mar 2008)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> sgf: I'm eagerly awaiting the CBC documentary on Kosovo (see above), also a current NATO theatre, and scene--along with Serbia proper--of an aerial bombing campaign in 1999 of which Canada was a part.
> 
> Also, this was not depicted at all (the March story too late, but the February?):
> 
> ...



Mark, any idea when this documentary on Kosovo will be shown? Sounds very interesting


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## MarkOttawa (25 Mar 2008)

Irony, irony, I lust for sgf's brain 

Mark
Ottawa


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## AirCanuck (26 Mar 2008)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Irony, irony, I lust for sgf's brain
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



guh?


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