# CADPAT Rain Gear



## soldiers301 (21 Nov 2004)

Here is a link to a picture of CADPAT Rainwear trial. What do you think about it ?

http://www.geocities.com/canuck_infantry/CADPAT_Trials_Rain_Gear.JPG


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## Inch (21 Nov 2004)

That pic looks different than the CADPAT raingear we get in the Air Force, ours looks more like a gortex shell than a rain jacket. Though I think that's because ours dissipates static,  which is not a requirement for the army.


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## McG (21 Nov 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> . . . which is not a requirement for the army.


Unless you work with explosives.  Then it is a very high priorety.  Unfortunatly, the Army approach has been to tell soldiers that they cannot wear the issued enviromental clothing when working with explosives.  The static electricity problem is solved, but  instead you have a bunch of cold & wet sappers.


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## Inch (21 Nov 2004)

Good point, I have no idea why they couldn't be issued the same rain gear we get. Then again, it's taken the army how long to get gortex CADPAT combat coats? We're all going to have ours by Feb.


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## Matt_Fisher (22 Nov 2004)

That thing looks like a rubber rain jacket.  WTF?  

Can't CTS have a look at what every other modern military has done in terms of using a trilaminate Gore-Tex shell jacket and pants as part of an all-climate rainjacket/shell system?  It's like they take 1/2 a step forward with the first generation Gore-Tex IECS and then when people complain that it is impractical they say "Well clearly Gore-Tex doesn't work...Let's go back to the rubber jacket" rather than look at the real reason why IECS was a failure as a rain jacket because of it's NYCO outer shell that would get soaked and become extremely heavy.

My Marine issue Gore-Tex Gen-II ECWCS jacket is one of the best pieces of equipment I've ever came across.  It's too bad CTS doesn't just do a cadpat Canadianized version of it or the British or German Gore-Tex and be done with it.


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## Recce41 (22 Nov 2004)

Gents
 Remember, our raingear is also our parka cover. GorTex sucks in the arctic. Gortex or GenTex comes in 2 or 3 ply. 2 is gortex that is under a outer. 3 ply is a full Gortex liner and shell. My civie jacket is 3 ply and sucks in the winter after it gets wet. This is due to the pores of the Gor freezing. The best bet would be two jackets. A full  gor and a 2 ply for winter. Yes. we have whites, but they done work when its green. But cold.


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## Bartok5 (22 Nov 2004)

Fellas,

That picture is from my web-site.  It is one of 2 types of CADPAT rainsuit that were trialled here in Gagetown about a year ago.  The version that you see in my collection was the "cheap" alternative, using PVC-coated nylon construction.  The other version was the 3-ply Goretex shell.   The troops conducting the trial were universal in their preference for the Gortex version, which is what CTS is buying as part of the Army/Airforce merged "ICE" system.  The Airforce received their Goretex raingear ahead of the Army simply because they funded their project first.  

The trials rainsuit that I have is very well made, with all of the same features as the Goretex version that is being procured.  Aside from the less than ideal material, the construction is top-notch.  The jacket features fully-taped seams, 2-way zippers, a double-layer storm flap, a stow-away hood, internal lycra cuffs, under-arm zips, shock-cord waist and hem drawstrings, an extended seat, etc.  The trousers are equally impressive with zippered calves for donning over your boots, etc, etc.  

I have seen the Goretex version that we are getting, and it is a thing of beauty.  MUCH nicer than the U.S. 2nd Generation IECS jacket, which tends to be the yard-stick where military weatherproof clothing is concerned.

I trust that this will clear up any confusion regarding the trials rain gear depicted on my web-site.


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## Lance Wiebe (22 Nov 2004)

Thank Goodness! 

That has to be the ugliest rain jacket I have seen in a while.

Kind of looks like a Newfie sou-wester with a pattern on it!

I'm glad you explained the difference in between the pictured version and the soon to be acquired version!


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## aesop081 (22 Nov 2004)

Inch,

Are you guys in Shearwater allowed to wear the CADPAT rain coat with your flightsuit ??  Here in Winnipeg, we are not so we have to stay soaked !!


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## Matt_Fisher (22 Nov 2004)

Recce41,

On the subject of Gore-Tex sucking in the winter, I'll disagree with you there.

I've never had a problem with my 3ply Gore-Tex civvie jacket freezing when I've been mountaineering or snowboarding in the winter.

I have heard of some occasions in extreme cold with frost accumulating inside the Gore-Tex as moisture vapor freezes when it touches the Gore-Tex shell.   In these cases you simply brush the frost off the inside of the jacket and continue on.

Based on your argument, even a non-coated fabric such as that used in the combat parka would freeze when moisture vapor from your body and insulated layers that was passing through would freeze when it came in contact with freezing air on the fabric's surface in extreme cold.

One of the keys to having Gore-Tex perform well is to maintain the outer fabric's water repellency.   A product such as Nikwax or Revivex applied once or twice a year will do wonders.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=779985&product_listing_all=true&bmUID=1101140925250

*Edit*

Mark,

Thanks for the inside scoop.   I went into rant mode, whereas I should have contacted you directly about the rainwear trial since the picture was taken from your site to clear up my confusion.

Interestingly enough, the Marine Corps is replacing its Gen II ECWCS with the APECS/All-Purpose Environmental Clothing System
http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/pmice/pj_cl_apecs.asp

I've had a chance to fondle it at the Modern Day Marine trade-show in Quantico and it's pretty decent looking stuff.   Some of the changes they've made are:
Marpat rather than Woodland camouflage
Supplex Nylon rather than Taslan.   Supplex has a softer hand and is quieter and has better water repellency and it is lighter weight than Taslan.
Urethane coated zippers on chest pockets and underarm zipers to prevent water leaking in.

Good luck trying to get your hands on a set in the next couple years as a collector.   Right now that stuff hasn't even been fielded to the Fleet Marine Force and only a few 'trials' sets are floating around Quantico.   We should be getting it sometime in 2005/2006.


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## Inch (22 Nov 2004)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Inch,
> 
> Are you guys in Shearwater allowed to wear the CADPAT rain coat with your flightsuit ??   Here in Winnipeg, we are not so we have to stay soaked !!



We haven't got it yet, I think we're the last operational base to get it.  Only the techs have it right now and they wear it all the time with their blue coveralls. I asked around and the impression that I got is that we will be permitted to wear it with our flight suits if the weather dictates, not while flying though for obvious reasons (it'll melt in a fire!). The TacHel guys have it and they wear it when they're not flying.

Cheers


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## zerhash (22 Nov 2004)

geeze new rain coats?

im still waiting on my combat umbrella!

Cadpat, with kevlar and ballistic plates.... and YES it stops rain!! (sometimes)


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## Recce41 (22 Nov 2004)

The old rain jacket was not really a rain jacket. I had one dated 1978, the tag read parka wet weather cover. Not rain jacket. In the old winter warfare book, it is used to cover your parka when the weather gets warm. to keep your parka dry. Those of us that have worn the old one and Gortex one, will know the difference. The old one was cotton, it allowed you vent. Cotton does not freeze the way gortex does. At -30c, gortex due to its plastic content gets hard, and holds the water. Cotton is natural and folds, allowing the micro crystals to brake. On my Adv Winter Warfare course, the old ranger always said KISS. Rangers use, equipment so old. canvas tents soaked in oil, cotton/wool shirts, boots with no lases. 
 I have been hunting and fishing wearing, my old clothing. And warmer than, in my new or military kit. To me high tech is not always the best. 
 On SUEs we have issued US Army and Marines winter clothing. In 92, 2nd Anglo and 3/67, 75th Rangers have come up, with all their kit. We ended up issuing them our parkas ( pat1964). 
 Yes. Gor is great if it is keep clean, and reasonably maintained. But at arctic weather, you cannot wash, clothes get dirty with oil. 
 That is why, I still wear my old one to the field. And my last new one is still in the plastic bag.


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## Matt_Fisher (23 Nov 2004)

Recce41,

KISS is always a great principle, as is COLD.  Any article of clothing that gets dirty/soiled loses its ability to insulate as the textile's fibres become matted and the amount insulating airspace between those fibres is reduced as well as the fibre's ability to repel water or maintain a level of hydrophobia, as the dirt soaks up moisture.  Cotton is the worst when wet, as the fibres become saturated with water and lose all their insulating capability.  There is truth to the saying that 'Cotton Kills' when used in cold or wet environments.

US cold weather kit has came a long way in the last 10 years from the first gen Gore-Tex ECWCS parka and trousers, heavyweight brown polypro, brown pile 'buffalo' suit, 5 button wool sweater, Korean War wool shirt, NYCO field pants with button-in liners and green 'fish-tail' parka.

The stuff that we've got issued now is leaps and bounds ahead of that which those troops had back in 1992.  About the only downside to all the fleece that we're issued now is its low flame resistance and tendency to melt when burnt.


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## George Wallace (23 Nov 2004)

Matt and Dave.....Don't forget the main defence against the real Cold is to Layer.......and Matt.......Tim's has had Nooo effect on the CF........I am not an addict...................................................................time for a Large Double Double.


GW


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## Gunnerlove (23 Nov 2004)

If Gore-Tex froze in the cold it would not be the shell of choice for mountaineers. I remember looking at the "Gore-Tex" jacket the army issued me and being shocked at how backward a garment it was. They created new ways to make mistakes. Like the full liner? three ply "Gore-Tex" does not need a protective liner that is why three ply was developed. All the pockets without any protection from the rain? Zippers that are upside down? No waterproof zippers?

I wonder what the purchase price is for the current jacket including development. To be honest I have not been convinced that my issue jacket has "Gore-Tex" in it. If it does why is there no Gore Creative Technologies label in it like every other Gore-Tex garment? Shame?


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## George Wallace (23 Nov 2004)

You do have a valid point about the label.   I believe it is a Registered Trade Mark and required by the company to include that on any item made of that material.   Even my Bivie Bag has it stamped on it, but I have yet to find any such labelling on any of my jackets or parkas, and I have gotten soaked in them after long periods of 'playing' in prolonged wet conditions.   :-[

GW


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## Matt_Fisher (23 Nov 2004)

Good point Gunnerlove.

Even on our issue stuff, the Gore-Tex stamp is on the inside and 'Gore-Tex Best Defense' labels are sewn on the garment.


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## Recce41 (23 Nov 2004)

Our jackets have a shell, for one reason, oil eats gortex. I will always stay with my old one.


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## Matt_Fisher (23 Nov 2004)

Oil doesn't eat Gore-Tex.

Have a look at what the US Air Force is using for their Bulk Fuel Handler's:
http://www.goremilitary.com/ow_product3.html


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## Gunnerlove (24 Nov 2004)

Nothing eats PTFE (Teflon) and that is what the breathable membrane is made of. If oil and fuel did they would not line high pressure oil and fuel lines with it and use it for high temp gaskets and seals.

I will look for an MSDS sheet for PTFE tommorrow.   


http://www.goremilitary.com/ow_product6.html
"To deliver better durability and a longer life cycle, GORE-TEX BEST DEFENSEÃ‚® outerwear was designed to provide resistance against perspiration and contaminants such as DEET, as well as petroleum, oils, and lubricants. 

Look for the GORE-TEXÃ‚® brand name to make sure you have the right gear. Through years of field testing and use, only products that carry the GORE-TEX brand have been proven to provide the best comfort and performance.

If It Doesn't Say GORE-TEXÃ‚® Fabric - It's Not!
Choose the proven performance of
GORE-TEX BEST DEFENSEÃ‚® products"

Why would we buy a proven garment when we can design our own? Well no time to ponder that I have to go reinvent the wheel.


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## Inch (25 Nov 2004)

Now promise me you army guys won't get angry........I got sized today for my CADPATs, including Rain suit, combat coat, intermediate pants, parka, and bib pants (or bunny pants, whatever you want to call them), all of which is CADPAT and GoreTex, I even saw the GoreTex tags! It's all a layer system, with the pants and shirt on then the intermediate jacket/pants followed by the parka and bunny pants, you feel like the Staypuff Marshmellow Man! There is no way you'll be cold in that, it may be a little warm with all that stuff on, but that's what the layers are for. We should be getting issued it in Jan/Feb and to my knowledge, we're one of the last places to get it. Crazy how the army doesn't have CADPAT coats or parkas yet.

Cheers


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## aesop081 (25 Nov 2004)

We just got sized here in Winnipeg for the Jan issue.........i couldnt believe it !!!  I already had the rain coat and pants but this takes the cake.


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## Bartok5 (25 Nov 2004)

Yeah, rub it in....    

Enjoy your new kit.  Seriously!   If the Army can't have it because we can't get our collective crap together on the procurement/convergence side of the house regarding the ICE, them all the power to you "blue jobs" for having had the foresight to sort yourselves out.  

Not that you really need the Goretex shell et-al, but hey - at least if it exists we Army types know who to mug if push comes to shove and we really need the stuff....


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## Inch (26 Nov 2004)

Mark, are you saying we should turn around and head the other direction if we see you coming? "That's a pretty nice parka boy! Why don't you step into this dark alley so I can get a good look at it"


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## Recce41 (26 Nov 2004)

Matt
 Tell that to my jacket. I had hydro fluid for a Leo spray over me. The outer was OK, but the liner was crap. That is one reason, we did keep or old parka.


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## Britney Spears (26 Nov 2004)

> Now promise me you army guys won't get angry........I got sized today for my CADPATs, including Rain suit, combat coat, intermediate pants, parka, and bib pants (or bunny pants, whatever you want to call them), all of which is CADPAT and GoreTex, I even saw the GoreTex tags! It's all a layer system, with the pants and shirt on then the intermediate jacket/pants followed by the parka and bunny pants, you feel like the Staypuff Marshmellow Man! There is no way you'll be cold in that, it may be a little warm with all that stuff on, but that's what the layers are for. We should be getting issued it in Jan/Feb and to my knowledge, we're one of the last places to get it. Crazy how the army doesn't have CADPAT coats or parkas yet.




Other than the rain gear, the operational units in the army have had all that stuff since Jan 2003. There's no point in wearing it really, since its not any better warmth wise than the old stuff (we can't walk around with our hands in our pockets), and camoflague wise,  unless it starts snowing relish in wainwright, its no better either. Although the leopard print fleece is very stylish....

You guys can have it, and take the tacvest too while you're at it.


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## Zoomie (26 Nov 2004)

Hey Inch,  19 Wing got sized for its entire ensemble at the start of the summer.  We shouldn't be seeing any of the warm stuff as it doesn't get cold enough out here.  The rain gear is excellent!  Aesop081, you should be allowed to wear your CADPAT rain gear with your OD flight suit.  There was a directive released about 3 months ago allowing all AF pers to do exactly that.  Until the new ACE (aircrew ensemble) is released under CEMS - basically the army's IECS parka in OD, it is our only source of rain protection.  The only caveat to this directive is that we cannot wear the gear while flying - as it has not been checked out by ALSE.

Comox was/is the first Wing to be completely decked out in CADPAT, it is strange to see anyone wearing OD combats anymore.  Which brings to question, why was that Sig Op on the cover of the Maple Leaf still wearing OD??


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## chrisf (26 Nov 2004)

Would that be this picture? http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/scripts/PortWeb.dll?quickfind=LH2002-012-065a.jpg&catalog=combat&template=cc_showdetail_e

It's a two year old picture...


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## Inch (26 Nov 2004)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Other than the rain gear, the operational units in the army have had all that stuff since Jan 2003. There's no point in wearing it really, since its not any better warmth wise than the old stuff (we can't walk around with our hands in our pockets), and camoflague wise,   unless it starts snowing relish in wainwright, its no better either. Although the leopard print fleece is very stylish....
> 
> You guys can have it, and take the tacvest too while you're at it.



Really? I find that kind of odd, since I'd never seen a CADPAT combat coat until yesterday, even in the Maple Leaf.   So if you guys are happy with the OD jackets, then why do you need CADPAT combats? There isn't always snow when it's cold so why not have a jacket that matches your pants and shirt?


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## aesop081 (26 Nov 2004)

Other than the rain gear, the operational units in the army have had all that stuff since Jan 2003. There's no point in wearing it really, since its not any better warmth wise than the old stuff (we can't walk around with our hands in our pockets), and camoflague wise,   unless it starts snowing relish in wainwright, its no better either. Although the leopard print fleece is very stylish....

You guys can have it, and take the tacvest too while you're at it. 

Judging by the info on your profile and some of the comments on this board i have seen comming from you...i will take those coments and put them in the bulshit file.

Zoomie:  I have seen that directive but i am not one to argue too much with the SCWO...he pretty much decides where i get posted !!  lol.......


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## MJP (26 Nov 2004)

Well he is right that operational army units have the ICE gear as they get deployed.  I tend to agree that they went overboard with the entire cadpating of everything, but it's better than nothing.


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## Britney Spears (26 Nov 2004)

> Judging by the info on your profile and some of the comments on this board i have seen comming from you...i will take those coments and put them in the bulshit file.




The reason I made my profile in jest is because some people  need to turn every thread into a penis size competiiton, and they feel inadequate unless they can find some to talk down to.  Those same folks also don't seem to have much of a sense of humour.

The thousands of soldiers who have been deployed since 2002 would obviously never call me on my BS,  but nothing could get past YOU now, could it? I guess the pics I posted of my parka about a month ago isn't enough to convince anyone eh? To think I pulled it out of the plastic specially for you guys too. If you never noticed the whole  battalion across town that's  been prancing around cool as ICE,  you should get out and around more often.




> Really? I find that kind of odd, since I'd never seen a CADPAT combat coat until yesterday, even in the Maple Leaf.  So if you guys are happy with the OD jackets, then why do you need CADPAT combats? There isn't always snow when it's cold so why not have a jacket that matches your pants and shirt?



Apparently, noone seems to care about me being happy, or just my feelings in general, which is strange, because I think my feelings are very important. It was a rather depressing day really.

Yes, its nice to have a jacket that matches my shirt and pants, but a cadpat parka and bib pants is overdoing it a bit don't you think?


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## Matt_Fisher (26 Nov 2004)

Recce41 said:
			
		

> Matt
> Tell that to my jacket. I had hydro fluid for a Leo spray over me. The outer was OK, but the liner was crap. That is one reason, we did keep or old parka.



Was it the nylon liner part of the OD Green Canadian IECS jacket that disintegrated from the Hydraulic fluid?  If so, that's not the part of the jacket that has the gore-tex, it's a separate uncoated liner.

I've had FRH, 90weight/gear oil, Dexron and all sorts of other POL cocktails get on my gore-tex without any negative effects.  About the only thing that I've seen ruin a Gore-Tex jacket was a set of batteries that leaked fluid all over the Marine pulling them out of his LAV.  The acid not only destroyed his Gore-Tex in a matter of hours, but also ate holes in his utility (combat) trousers and did a nice chemical burn on his legs.


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## Gunnerlove (26 Nov 2004)

Hydraulic fluid will not destroy Nylon or Teflon. If it did they would not use oil to lube nylon bushings or use nylon thread in Teflon lined hydraulic hoses. If petroleum eats Gore-Tex why does my friends uncle (a rig pig) wear a Mountain Hardwear one piece Gore-Tex suit on the job? This brings me back to this question "What the hell are our jackets made of and who makes the materials?"

I should e-mail Gore and ask if they were responsible for my combat jacket.


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## aesop081 (27 Nov 2004)

Quote
Judging by the info on your profile and some of the comments on this board i have seen comming from you...i will take those coments and put them in the bulshit file.


The reason I made my profile in jest is because some people  need to turn every thread into a penis size competiiton, and they feel inadequate unless they can find some to talk down to.  Those same folks also don't seem to have much of a sense of humour.

The thousands of soldiers who have been deployed since 2002 would obviously never call me on my BS,  but nothing could get past YOU now, could it? I guess the pics I posted of my parka about a month ago isn't enough to convince anyone eh? To think I pulled it out of the plastic specially for you guys too. If you never noticed the whole  battalion across town that's  been prancing around cool as ICE,  you should get out and around more often.



Quote
Really? I find that kind of odd, since I'd never seen a CADPAT combat coat until yesterday, even in the Maple Leaf.  So if you guys are happy with the OD jackets, then why do you need CADPAT combats? There isn't always snow when it's cold so why not have a jacket that matches your pants and shirt?

Apparently, noone seems to care about me being happy, or just my feelings in general, which is strange, because I think my feelings are very important. It was a rather depressing day really.

Yes, its nice to have a jacket that matches my shirt and pants, but a cadpat parka and bib pants is overdoing it a bit don't you think?


Britney:

Fair enough,  But i guess you are not all that up to date........that battalion cross town is mostly gone (i go down there once a week BTW) !  You did bring up a good point about the bib pants..i do think they are a little much but CADPAT is a good pattern so, lets use it.  As far as the thousands of soldiers you are refering to, i'll admit i'm not too sure what you mean by that !  Me, i'm just glad i'm getting some decent kit for once, wether or not i ever get to wear it is a question though.


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## Britney Spears (27 Nov 2004)

As far as the thousands of soldiers you are refering to, i'll admit i'm not too sure what you mean by that ! 
I had made the statement that 





> Other than the rain gear, the operational units in the army have had all that stuff since Jan 2003.



Thus, the easiest way to confirm this would be to inspect or question one of the thousands of soldiers that have been deployed operationally since Jan 2003. How exactly did you expect me to "bulshite" something like this? I'm beginning to fear that I may have commited an OPSEC violation here,  maybe the mods should delete my posts before the entire air force catches on to our game.

You will also note thant Jan 2003 predates the "battalion across town"s move by about 8 month or so.


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## pappy (27 Nov 2004)

I suggest people check this sight out:
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/dpmain.htm

Designed for cold/wet weather.  I've used some on these items around Oregon, in heavy rains and down into the teens (without windchill factor) in single layer configuration, and stayed warm and happy on the move and still.  Freezing weather doesn't really require Goretex as much as windproofness, since its freezing something that drys fast and wicks away mostiure is nice.  The Douple-P stuff Buffalo makes is one option...

Beathability is an important factor for heavy outside activities, this Buffalo stuff will do that better then Goretex, the wicking / beathability and your own body heat will dry it fast if is gets wet.  Easy to clean in the field.

I do still think Goretex has its place, as a lightweight shell (or liner under combats)  The older EWCS Us goretex was ok, but heavy,  the GEN II us much nicer, since they removed the liner, or at least most of it.


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## JimmyPeeOn (18 Jul 2005)

Does anyone know if the army is going to be recieving new rain gear?  It seems kind of odd to me that my desert rain gear is not only camo, but better than my old green stuff.  Not that I use that green crap anyways.


Thanks,
Andrew


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## gun plumber (18 Jul 2005)

I know for sure that there was talk and trials for a new rain gear in Cadpat(TW) that had some design features that made it a little more wearable than the current issue.I don't have a link handy,but it was mentioned in not only a power point demo for the textile industry,but also in the Maple Leaf.
Haven't heard to much more about it,but so far CTS has started to issue out more and more of the "supplemental" items(new ranger blanket,Camel Bak) so hopefully this one will also make an  appearance soon as well.Till then,I'll still be strut in' my stuff in my stealth suit,feeling bad for the troops sweating to death in the issue rain jacket.
A more experienced gear junkie,or maybe even some one taking part in the trial,could maybe post pics and comments on it to give others a good idea of how it's shaping up.
Hope this helps.

Arte Et Marte


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## Gunner98 (18 Jul 2005)

CTS Internet web page@ http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/24_e.asp

I think the Camelbak is only for those going on ops, anyone experience supply issuing to non-ops pers ?


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## JimmyPeeOn (18 Jul 2005)

Ive got the camel back, it's quite nice.  Comes with a little cleaning kit and holds 2L.  You don't have to take the bag out to fill it either.
I checked the CTS site, nothing in there.   I dont use the green stuff either, I preffer the American poncho.

Anyone else want to take a crack at this one?

Cheers,
Andrew


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## Korus (18 Jul 2005)

There's desert rain gear??


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## 392 (18 Jul 2005)

Yup. They're issuing it to pers proceeding on Athena.....


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## Korus (18 Jul 2005)

Wow. I didn't know that..
I haven't heard anything about it for Op Archer.


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## 392 (18 Jul 2005)

You know, it's kinda funny how we have desert CADPAT rain gear that'll get used maybe once or twice over a six month period BEFORE we get TW CADPAT that'll get used consistently back here in Canada  ???


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## Korus (18 Jul 2005)

It's the army way.


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## Britney Spears (18 Jul 2005)

> You know, it's kinda funny how we have desert CADPAT rain gear that'll get used maybe once or twice over a six month period BEFORE we get TW CADPAT that'll get used consistently back here in Canada  Huh



No one's going to complain about not having rain gear and being wet in CANADA, we've been wet and cold  for the last 20 years, and we got along just fine didn't we? Nothing has changed.

But getting wet in a thuderstorm in the DESERT? Well tell the BOR back home to get my release papers ready, because there's no way I'm  putting up with that....


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## honestyrules (18 Jul 2005)

I know that the AF has the new TW CADPAT rain gear. They paid the stuff with their own budget.


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## Bomber (18 Jul 2005)

The Airforces version of CTS is LWCC Light Weight Combat Clothing I think the acronym goes.  They have converged with us on a few designs, like the new rain gear and the "mk 2" combats with the covered pockets.  The Airforce has almost finished issuing their rain gear, I know all the Helo guys on here have it.  The Army bought a bunch on the Airforce's contract that is going to deploying troops.  I know a company from 1 RCR got issued the stuff, and some of the guys in W Battery had it for trials.


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## JimmyPeeOn (19 Jul 2005)

Yeah, I was a little confused in supply when I was asked if I wanted the "desert rain pants".  I was glad I took the coat though, it rained here about 10 times during the first 3 weeks of tour.


Cheers,
Andrew


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## soldiers301 (19 Jul 2005)

> Yup. They're issuing it to pers proceeding on Athena.....




False : This is not the new rain gear. This is DropZone Tactical Recce Smock in AR CADPAT. They are not 100% waterproof. This smock is issued to Op. Athena Soldiers only.

Link to the Smock : http://www.dropzonetactical.com/clothing/reccesmock.html

Link to picture on Op. Athena : http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_f.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=7386&site=combatcamera


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## The_Falcon (19 Jul 2005)

Its a little hard in the combat camera pic to see if it is the DZ recce smock,



			
				JimmyPeOn said:
			
		

> Yeah, I was a little confused in supply when I was asked if I wanted the "desert rain pants".   I was glad I took the coat though, it rained here about 10 times during the first 3 weeks of tour.



And if this person got them through the supply system and was asked about wanting the pants as well, I don't think it is a DZ product seeing as how they don't have "rain pants" on their site


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## soldiers301 (19 Jul 2005)

> Its a little hard in the combat camera pic to see if it is the DZ recce smock,



Just contact DropZone Tactical and ask for it. You will get confirmed that this is the Recce Smock.


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## JimmyPeeOn (19 Jul 2005)

Well, I got it @ clothing stores, I really didnt have any concern as to who made it, and actually it is VERY waterproof.  Dose'nt look much like the pic in your link though.  Anyone seen anything similar coming down the pipes for use in Canada?  I can post some pics if you guys are interested.

"Jacket Rainsuit  NSN:8415-20-000-5753"


----------



## Fishbone Jones (19 Jul 2005)

soldiers301 said:
			
		

> False : This is not the new rain gear. This is DropZone Tactical Recce Smock in AR CADPAT. They are not 100% waterproof. This smock is issued to Op. Athena Soldiers only.



What have you got for proof of this, besides a fuzzy picture and your opinion?


----------



## Bomber (19 Jul 2005)

The stuff he has is genuine "Stead Fast" garments "steadair" material.  It isn't a dropzone smock.


----------



## 392 (19 Jul 2005)

soldiers301 said:
			
		

> False : This is not the new rain gear. This is DropZone Tactical Recce Smock in AR CADPAT. They are not 100% waterproof. This smock is issued to Op. Athena Soldiers only.



I think I can say with great certainty that it is indeed a raincoat and not a smock.

Anyways - back on topic - I heard through the grapevine that the Army did in fact trial the Air Force stuff and it wasn't rugged enough to withstand the tasks it was put through, so they're looking elsewhere. I don't know how true that is, but it kinda makes sense...


----------



## scaddie (19 Jul 2005)

I recently recieved my joining instructions for ARCON this year, and it mentioned on the kit list that we should have been issued newer raingear, because the old stuff is deemed unfit. So I'm really confused, I only have the OD rain gear, is this the newer issue?


----------



## 392 (19 Jul 2005)

Scaddie said:
			
		

> I recently recieved my joining instructions for ARCON this year, and it mentioned on the kit list that we should have been issued newer raingear, because the old stuff is deemed unfit. So I'm really confused, I only have the OD rain gear, is this the newer issue?



As far as I know, the OD stuff is the only issued raingear at this time to non deployed army pers. As was stated earlier, the Air Forces guys have CADPAT TW rainsuits, but the army doesn't.

This is probably something you should take up with your Chain of Command at your unit....


----------



## soldiers301 (19 Jul 2005)

My information is from a man actually deployed oversea for Op. Athena.


----------



## R711 (19 Jul 2005)

From what I understand from the briefings is that the airforce rain gear did not mee the standards that the army had set out ( I think it was a few minor deatails but enough for the tease the soliders guys LOL). Dropzone does not make any form of rain gear at all Solider301, They do not have a seam sealing machine the last time I had talked to them. But they do supply on a personal purchase a Recce Smock in CADPAT AR.
R711 OUT


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## MPSHIELD (19 Jul 2005)

Regarding the Rain Gear- I emailed CTS a while back about a comment on the new Rain gear. I received a reply. The Rain Gear at this time is not part of the CTS program but part of a Army Procurement program. In the near future it will be added to the CTS Website when it becomes part of the CTS. As per the Presentation, the VCDS has urge convergence of equipment and the "army" rain gear is going to be the same as the CEMS one. The "new converged" design I have been told by email will have some improvements to the CEMS version. Now I know someone reading this may reply with "what you are saying is not true .... where is this guy getting his info from?" Please look at the presentaions. The info is there.

More Information can be found at:
http://www.textiles.ca/ctidndconference/CTI-DND_Presentations.htm
look under the Clothe the soldier presentation and Army Current Product Improvements. They got some great stuff comming down the pipe in the next few years. Acording to the Presentation, the rain gear TW will be available for ops in the Fall 06. 

Enjoy!


----------



## pappy (20 Jul 2005)

nice (dropzone) Smock, spendy, but nice, anyone here use them?  worth the cash?  

So is this "new" CADPAT AR rain jacket goretex or similar or sealed nylon?

nice link to the above post, interesting PPP on the ID sleep system.   I like mine   if you haven't seen them yet, you'll like them.


----------



## JimmyPeeOn (21 Jul 2005)

It's a nylon shell with gortex guts.  Its a sweet piece of kit.  Rain gear that stops water.  Who would've thought we would ever see that?

Cheerz,
Andrew


----------



## Bomber (21 Jul 2005)

There has been two types of the rain gear floating around.  There was some of the old material printed in both AR and TW, and then there is the actual new Rain Gear done in AR and TW.  The new stuff is a breatheable moisture permeable membrane.  The slides all say Rain Gear, but to avoid confusion and strange orders, there has been the suggestion of "jacket wind, rain, temperate" or something along those lines, so no longer will people get jacked for wearing a Rain Jacket when it obviously isn't raining, stupid troop, shake your head.


----------



## Good2Golf (29 Jul 2005)

I and other Tac Hel and AF guys I know have it...they call it the 2 in 1 jacket...the label just calls it "JACKET H/W".  It's TW and had deployable/hideable reflective tape strips on it as well as a nylone/perforated liner to the outer Goretex shell.  It is a sweet piece of gear.  Don't quote me on it, but I've heard there are a few samples in AR based on the current CEMS/ACE rainjacket.  Perhaps some of us pitching out on Op Argus can get the stuff and let you guys heading south on Archer how much we like it?  For as much as some guys may joke about any AR rainjacket in the 'stan, I'd do the same with the AR rainjacket as I do with my current 2-in-1 TW...wear shells/layers underneath and it's good to go below zero.  FWIW

Cheers,
Duey


----------



## Hunter (6 Sep 2005)

There's a cadpat jacket posted on eBay, and I was wondering if this is the new CF-issue rain gear:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CANADIAN-MILITARY-STYLE-CADPAT-WATER-RISISTANT-PARKA_W0QQitemZ6558609870QQcategoryZ104023QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (6 Sep 2005)

Having worked with Land Force Trials and Evaluations Unit (LFTEU) I can confirm that yes there is a new rain gear in the works but right now it is being redesigned because it failed some trial test.

Expect to see it in the near future.


----------



## BITTER PPLCI CPL (6 Sep 2005)

I love it when people say, we never had that kit and we made due all this time blah, blah, blah. I'm surprised we have cadpat! If anything, it's the dinosaurs who have prevented our military from advancing over the last decade while euro countries did!


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## bitterntwisted (6 Sep 2005)

> you crackme up. you think a bunch of liberal dicks who have never, ever been outside in the rain care ab out your wet weather gear. bahahahahahahahahahahahhahha buy your own or get wet lads.

ok, you can wait and maybe you will get what you need by the time your ready to pension out. otherwise get it yourself.

bl


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## MPSHIELD (6 Sep 2005)

So does anyone have any information to the changes on the new rain jacket. I saw a rain jacket when i was in Borden last week hanging up in the coat area. At first glance it looked like the Air Force 2 in 1 jacket, it has the same design, material, reflective tape under the vent pockets, however I noticed 2 different additions:
1- it had the Velcro tab system on it on the left shoulder to attach brassards to
2- It also had a Velcro attachment system for your name tag on the right upper chest

Aside from that it appeared to be the same design. Again. I only saw it for a moment. It did have all the other features it seemed as the Air Force 2 and 1 Jacket. I assume from the info that i saw that this "look's" like the new "converged" jacket (or prototype???). I never looked at the label (i know, I know i should have). The Name tag that was on the jacket was an army designator (crossed swords). Anyone know more specifics of this jacket? Photos?

Cheers


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## Fusaki (6 Sep 2005)

> Quote
> Yup. They're issuing it to pers proceeding on Athena.....
> 
> 
> ...



No.

The Dropzone Recce Smock was NOT issued to pers on Op Athena. The guys in the picture are wearing the new AR CADPAT Raingear. How do I know? For one thing, I know what I had issued to me. Also, I was there when the above picture was taken.


----------



## Armymedic (6 Sep 2005)

sorry to come onto this late:

I concur with Ghostwalk


			
				Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> The guys in the picture are wearing the new AR CADPAT Raingear. How do I know? For one thing, I know what I had issued to me.


I had it issued to as well.

Also my team in Kabul, the C ANTC det, "purchased" the AR Recce smock in question. The only days it was cool enough to wear after we received them in Apr were the days it was cloudy and rainy. So if someone over there speaks of a AR smock, it was probably one of ours your friend seen.


----------



## DannyBoy (7 Sep 2005)

My Platoon 2ic is in the clothe the soldier program Ive seen alot of the gucci kit that they are developing. He brings alot of it to the unit exercises. He brought the rain gear on one of our exercises and it looks like a nifty peace of kit that i wouldn't mind borrowing from him for an extended period of time


----------



## BKells (7 Sep 2005)

DannyBoy said:
			
		

> My Platoon 2ic is in the clothe the soldier program Ive seen alot of the gucci kit that they are developing. He brings alot of it to the unit exercises. He brought the rain gear on one of our exercises and it looks like a nifty peace of kit that i wouldn't mind borrowing from him for an extended period of time



WO Paris had the new rain gear on our BIQ FTX.


----------



## DannyBoy (7 Sep 2005)

Did he, oh yeah that was at the END EX when we were all waiting to go fill the trenches eh


----------



## chrisf (7 Sep 2005)

Scaddie said:
			
		

> I recently recieved my joining instructions for ARCON this year, and it mentioned on the kit list that we should have been issued newer raingear, because the old stuff is deemed unfit. So I'm really confused, I only have the OD rain gear, is this the newer issue?



Since no one answered your question before...

The green rain gear is the "new" rain gear the joining instructions referred to, the "old" rain gear is the old American nylon stuff.

The green rain gear is actually quite effective... assuming you're in a torrential downpour, you have time to put it on before hand, and you're not trying to be overly stealthy.


----------



## Bomber (7 Sep 2005)

The green stuff is old.  The CADPAT is new.


----------



## George Wallace (7 Sep 2005)

Bomber said:
			
		

> The green stuff is old.   The CADPAT is new.



Wow!.....the answers here that you got are RTFOTL......Unless you are Reg Force Air Force, your new Rain Gear is OD.   The 'old' Rain Gear is also OD, and made in Canada, not the US.   Seeing as we now have 'new' Rain Gear, all those who purchased the better quality US rubberized rain gear, are no longer permitted to wear it.   Look at the Manufacture Date on your label and see what the date is.....if it is pre1999 it is probably OLD.


----------



## Bomber (8 Sep 2005)

Eventually the army will be receiving the new CADPAT "rain gear", but yes, until then the "new" stuff is OD, garbage bag.  The airforce and the army will have the same jackets and pants one of these days, and it will more likely be called something like rain and wind gear, to allow you to wear it when it is not raining.  The Airforce is 95% kitted out with the new Cadpat stuff, and I bet there are probably a bunch of guys on this forum that have the  NEW "new" Cadpat stuff in either AR or TW.  The stuff is amazingly expensive comapred to the hefty cinch sacks currently issued, so it will be a slow go to get everyone kitted out in it.

Spell check crapped out on me.


----------



## Hunter (8 Sep 2005)

As per my previous post, is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANADIAN-MILITARY-STYLE-CADPAT-WATER-RISISTANT-PARKA_W0QQitemZ6558609870QQcategoryZ104023QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the new rain gear?   One of the photos is of the tag, which identifies it as a "Parka, Cold Weather, Camouflage", with a 'microporous PTFE' lining and (Nato?) stock number 8415-01-226-1316.


----------



## George Wallace (8 Sep 2005)

Looking at the label and Stock Number....that isn't even Canadian.  It is US.

Check this thread:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31702.0.html


----------



## Kal (8 Sep 2005)

Well, the headline states that it is a 'CANADIAN MILITARY STYLE', parka.   It doesn't have an NSN, but it does have some stock number, but what the number pertains to, is beyond me.   If it were a genuine piece of kit, I would think that it would go for much more than 71 dollars, as most of genuine issue CADPAT gear goes for.

     George beat me to it.


----------



## theoldyoungguy (8 Sep 2005)

i got my gortex stealth suite and for me thats the only rain gear i need. that suite is the best investment ive ever made for gucci kit.


----------



## theoldyoungguy (8 Sep 2005)

ive gotten a couple emails from people asking about the stealth suite. if ur wondering what it is its a single layer of gortex, u wear it underneath ur combats overtop of ur thermals(preferably) and any other clothes that may be needed to keep u warm and stay dry. u can order them from the PPCLI kitshop. the website is

http://www.army.dnd.ca/3PPCLI/kitshop.htm

there online catalogue seems to be down atm, but i would assume it will be up again soon, its about $270 for both the pants and jacket


----------



## Fusaki (8 Sep 2005)

If you're in Pet, you can also get stealth suits at the 1RCR kit shop.


----------



## BernDawg (8 Sep 2005)

Don't know what the rain jacket on Ebay is but it is NOT the issued gore-tex cadpat tw that I have.  Being an army type at an "operational" Air Force base I'm entitled to it and, if I may say, they can have it back when they pry it out of my cold dead fingers!!  Best piece of kit I was ever issued.


----------



## MOOO! (9 Sep 2005)

Most of what you see on Ebay is crap.  I hear that a company that made Cadet style cadpat might have made a rain jacket of similar design.  And I agree stealth suits do make a Infanteer a happier one.


----------



## armyvern (18 Sep 2005)

Morning,
The cadpat raingear you see walking around is actually the "CEMS" (Air Force) 2 in 1. It was brought into the system as both their windbreaker (comes in handy on the breezy flight-lines) and their raingear. 500 series (airfield engineers etc) trades are entitled to 2 sets each. The rest of the AF gets only 1 set.  This was bought and paid for by the Air Force for the Air Force which explains why the Army does not have it. Currently CTS is looking at procuring cadpat raingear for the troops as well with some slight design changes...ie taking out the warm fuzzy lining in the side slats (and sewing the side slats up!!) of the pockets so the troops don't feel the need to put their hands in there to warm up. The Army has already procured some of this raingear in the AR (arid region) pattern for personnel serving on Op Athena...and that is what you see in the pictures of the guys waiting to get fed. The Recce smock is not a CTS item, but has been purchased by some Units for use on Ops. It may come into the system yet. CTS still does not have an expected date for the cadpat raingear coming in for the Army side of the house but I will keep you informed as soon as I get my next CTS update here at Clothing Stores.
SgtVern


----------



## luck881 (18 Sep 2005)

Ghostwalk,
Does the shop stock them or do you have to order them?


----------



## armyvern (18 Sep 2005)

We do have limited stock here in Gagetown....Right now I can only issue to 403 Hel Ots Sqn because their posns belong to the Air Force....currently I am trying to get authorization to issue to all other blue DEU on our Base who are in 'Army' posns.


----------



## Toronto_NCO (15 Oct 2005)

I'm currently attending the PSTC Basic crse in preparation for Op Danaca.  I had my first view of the new CADPAT rain jacket that about 60% of the class was issued at their home units/bases - all Reg F (im a f/t Reservist).   

Now, Nov to Apr is rainy season in the Golan and from what I hear, it rains quite a bit.  I've inquired about getting the new jacket  but have had no luck with the ASUs in Toronto or Kingston (just for tour purposes - will rtn post-tour).  

Is anyone aware of any direction on this jacket ie: is it supposed to be issued to ppl going on Operations? If so, is it specific to which ones?  I can understand that there would be no entitlement if the Op was at a very tropical/dry area with no threat of rain for a long time.

The rubber rain suit that most of us have is alright for a brief stint in the rain but in warm wet weather, I may as well keep the rubber suit in the closet and wear industrial garbage bags!

My honest guess is that the rain suit (new one) came out after the Clothing Scale was issued and the scale of issue has not been updated OR the updated scales haven't been pushed down.  (im not harping on the Supply guys - just curious as to why...!)

thoughts?? comments? help?  ???
much appreciated..

-A


----------



## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

Toronto_NCO said:
			
		

> I'm currently attending the PSTC Basic crse in preparation for Op Danaca.   I had my first view of the new CADPAT rain jacket that about 60% of the class was issued at their home units/bases - all Reg F (im a f/t Reservist).
> 
> Now, Nov to Apr is rainy season in the Golan and from what I hear, it rains quite a bit.   I've inquired about getting the new jacket   but have had no luck with the ASUs in Toronto or Kingston (just for tour purposes - will rtn post-tour).
> 
> ...



The cadpat rainjacket is still just an Air Force piece of kit. I'd wager that the 60% of your Basic PSO Course mates were...Air Force. Being that it tends to be the AF bases that get tasked with the greatest number of CFTPO posns for Op Danaca. So it's got nothing to do with Supply scales for Ops because it is still only on the AF scale. 
Word up.... as of 2 weeks ago the Golan has been removed from the ops scale for ICE and AR Cadpat as well, so if you didn't already get issued that as part of your dagging....you shouldn't be issued it now.  :'(
As for the rainy season in the Golan?? Been there and done that. I lived. Using my good old OD raingear and I'm quite sure that you will too.


----------



## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

Toronto_NCO said:
			
		

> My honest guess is that the rain suit (new one) came out after the Clothing Scale was issued and the scale of issue has not been updated OR the updated scales haven't been pushed down.   (im not harping on the Supply guys - just curious as to why...!)



As below, you're not entitled to the cadpat raingear but I'm glad to hear you're not blaming us because you are not on the scales which are updated daily etc and show up right on our Supply computers in the CFSS when we log in to look at them because as I've said before in this forum us Supply guys and gals don't decide what's on the scales (individual MOCs and the ECSs do) ... we just get to enforce them.


----------



## D-n-A (15 Oct 2005)

http://www.textiles.ca/ctidndconference/presentations/Army-DLR.pdf

Anyone else notice the new Tactical Kit Bag on that site?

Any information on what they mean by "In near future - not all soldiers will be issued a rucksack - requirement for tactical bag in the field"  What soldiers won't be getting rucksacks anymore?


----------



## Fusaki (15 Oct 2005)

> Ghostwalk,
> Does the shop stock them or do you have to order them?



The 1RCR kitshop usually has stealthsuits, softies, and other gucci kit in stock, but they're closed for renovations at this time. I expect the Kitshop to open again within the next couple weeks. Stop by and check it out!!!


----------



## armyvern (15 Oct 2005)

MikeL said:
			
		

> Any information on what they mean by "In near future - not all soldiers will be issued a rucksack - requirement for tactical bag in the field"   What soldiers won't be getting rucksacks anymore?



http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/273_e.asp

The new CTS ruck is currently only slated for issue to 1st Line Field Army pers conducting dismounted ops.

The rest of us will retain our current rucks. They are still discussing whether or not the rest of us Army pers will eventually be issued with the CTS ruck.


----------



## Good2Golf (16 Oct 2005)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Morning,
> The cadpat raingear you see walking around is actually the "CEMS" (Air Force) 2 in 1. It was brought into the system as both their windbreaker (comes in handy on the breezy flight-lines) and their raingear. 500 series (airfield engineers etc) trades are entitled to 2 sets each. The rest of the AF gets only 1 set.  This was bought and paid for by the Air Force for the Air Force which explains why the Army does not have it. Currently CTS is looking at procuring cadpat raingear for the troops as well with some slight design changes...ie taking out the warm fuzzy lining in the side slats (and sewing the side slats up!!) of the pockets so the troops don't feel the need to put their hands in there to warm up. The Army has already procured some of this raingear in the AR (arid region) pattern for personnel serving on Op Athena...and that is what you see in the pictures of the guys waiting to get fed. The Recce smock is not a CTS item, but has been purchased by some Units for use on Ops. It may come into the system yet. CTS still does not have an expected date for the cadpat raingear coming in for the Army side of the house but I will keep you informed as soon as I get my next CTS update here at Clothing Stores.
> SgtVern



Vern, did you mean to say that there is an AR 2 in 1 out there?  The AR I was issued seems to be slightly prettier stuff of the same OD rubber stuff.  Luckily I brought my TW 2-1 with me so I'll be set with the fleece for the rainy Kabul wx and for colder...that (2-1 + fleece) is one of the sweetest combinations of imclement outerwear going.

Cheers,
Duey


----------



## armyvern (16 Oct 2005)

Duey said:
			
		

> Vern, did you mean to say that there is an AR 2 in 1 out there?   The AR I was issued seems to be slightly prettier stuff of the same OD rubber stuff.   Luckily I brought my TW 2-1 with me so I'll be set with the fleece for the rainy Kabul wx and for colder...that (2-1 + fleece) is one of the sweetest combinations of imclement outerwear going.
> 
> Cheers,
> Duey



No, Air Force 2 in 1. The cadpat raingear is still officially only an Air Force item. The Air Force does not issue an AR (Arid Region) version of this item, just the TW (Temperate Woodland).

Some Army pers have been issued with a trial version of the AR cadpat raingear, but this is only being used by some pers in-theatre currently and is not an actual Army item....yet. 
There are also some Army pers in Canada wearing trial versions of the TW Cadpat raingear although this is not yet an Army item. Styles/mods required prior to bringing it on-line/"into the supply system" for Army pers have still not yet been determined. Those Army guys lucky enough to be in Air Force posns of course, will already have their hands on the TW raingear, ICE etc. Or those Army guys whose Units have been kitted into the Army version of ICE. The rest of us Army pers get to wait.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Oct 2005)

Isn't it nice to see my RSM and CO "trialing" them.


----------



## Britney Spears (24 Oct 2005)

> Isn't it nice to see my RSM and CO "trialing" them.



It's for the new ops 150  kit list, of course. Other wise, how will the troops know when to wear it and what to put into each pocket when they get it?


----------



## hedgehogrgc (24 Apr 2006)

Why is it that the airforce has CADPAT raingear and we ( the army ) do not. We have CADPAT AR (Tan ) rain gear but not TW (Green) .
The reason i ask is that i am currently at CFSME and all the airforce CE types have it who are posted to airforce bases.

Thank you

Have a nice day! :threat:


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

They have their own money to buy what they feel they want so they went ahead and bought those while the army decided not too.
That said there is a plan in the works to have one rain jacket in CADPAT for both elements thereby reducing overall costs.  When the army gets it is a crap shoot at best.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

P.S. when operational you tend to get the good stuff on the fast track.  Therefore AR CADPAT rain jackets are there.


----------



## COBRA-6 (24 Apr 2006)

The AR CADPAT stuff is not Goretex however... I'm still waiting for ICE Tactical to get the fabric for their hardshell jacket in CADPAT TW, but they said they need 40 orders to fill a run first...  

Anyone interested?


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

Thanks for pointing that out Mike.
I'm still hoping for a nicer website.


----------



## ICE Tactical (24 Apr 2006)

CFL,
What woulkd you like to see on the website? We're still working on it .

Hobey


----------



## Trinity (24 Apr 2006)

hedgehogrgc said:
			
		

> Why is it that the airforce has CADPAT raingear and we ( the army ) do not. We have CADPAT AR (Tan ) rain gear but not TW (Green) .
> The reason i ask is that i am currently at CFSME and all the airforce CE types have it who are posted to airforce bases.
> 
> Thank you
> ...





There was 7 pages describing why before this.

You resurrect a dead thread because you failed to read the previous pages but were smart
enough to find (probably through search) to ask.  That's like finding the manual to the piece
of kit you want, and then asking someone else when the answer is right in front of you.


----------



## armyvern (24 Apr 2006)

hedgehogrgc said:
			
		

> Why is it that the airforce has CADPAT raingear and we ( the army ) do not. We have CADPAT AR (Tan ) rain gear but not TW (Green) .
> The reason i ask is that i am currently at CFSME and all the airforce CE types have it who are posted to airforce bases.
> 
> Thank you
> ...


I'm taking it your currently a student at CFSME. You can visit the CFSME QM and they can give you an answer on this and most probably copies of the Routine Orders Entries and Comd O Group notes that we sent out from Clothing Stores Gagetown to address this question numerous times over the past 2 years.

Air Force budget...and they bought it only for personnel posted to Air Force Operational Positions (Blue, Black or Green DEU) belonging Air Command. 

Anyone posted (Blue, Black or Green DEU) to a position/Unit belonging to Land Force...gets to wait until LF Command eventually comes out with something.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

So your on the name change band wagon to eh Vern.

ICE PM inbound.


----------



## chrisf (24 Apr 2006)

ArmyVern - HorM Fan!! said:
			
		

> The rest of us will retain our current rucks. They are still discussing whether or not the rest of us Army pers will eventually be issued with the CTS ruck.



Out of curiosity, would this mean they're going to re-order the current rucks or simply use up the remaining stocks over the next god only knows how long? As obviously, stocks are going to run out eventually.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (24 Apr 2006)

ArmyVern - HorM Fan!! said:
			
		

> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/273_e.asp
> 
> The new CTS ruck is currently only slated for issue to 1st Line Field Army pers conducting dismounted ops.
> 
> The rest of us will retain our current rucks. They are still discussing whether or not the rest of us Army pers will eventually be issued with the CTS ruck.



Just a question about this Vern, what will they consider 1st Line Field Army Pers? Would it be only pers in say 2RCR or would us reservists get them too?


----------



## Trinity (24 Apr 2006)

I think we need to start a new forum...

The ask ArmyVern forum.....

Where we can ask nothing but supply questions.

(and marriage advice!)


----------



## Nfld Sapper (24 Apr 2006)

Now that would be nice  ;D.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

You could of course by pass the whole entitlement thing if your a CO and RSM and want to "trial" the rain jacket.


----------



## chrisf (24 Apr 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> (and marriage advice!)



As far as I know, she's married already, but I guess it couldn't hurt to ask her


----------



## NL_engineer (24 Apr 2006)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> As far as I know, she's married already, but I guess it couldn't hurt to ask her



I think he knows, and that's why he asked.

Back on topic: How long do you think it would take for the cadpat rain gear to issued to the Pres ???


----------



## COBRA-6 (24 Apr 2006)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Back on topic: How long do you think it would take for the cadpat rain gear to issued to the Pres ???



Just in time for retirement!  ;D


----------



## George Wallace (24 Apr 2006)

I imagine that if the Pres actually wanted some, he would get it within days.


Now I am sure ArmyVern - Habs or Montreal Fan!! can correct me on that, but he is a powerful man and would likely be able to get a pre-production run made for him.   ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper (24 Apr 2006)

Last I heard (late '05) that there was still no CADPAT rain gear approved for LF environment. Had something to do with the CADPAT material on the rain jacket. I'll check to see what exactly was the reasoning tomorrow at work.


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## MPSHIELD (24 Apr 2006)

Nfld_Sapper said:
			
		

> Last I heard (late '05) that there was still no CADPAT rain gear approved for LF environment. Had something to do with the CADPAT material on the rain jacket. I'll check to see what exactly was the reasoning tomorrow at work.



According to the Textiles conference that occurred April 19-20, 2006 in Ottawa, the CADPAT Rain Gear is now under the direction of CTS (therefore a CTS item) and has been converged with the Air Force 2-1 rain gear to save costs. The Army is waiting for treasury board approval for 78, 000 sets. According to the presentation, the design and trials are done. The presentations are found in this topic.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42488.0.html

Nfld_Sapper -Where do you work that you would be able to check at work? Must be nice if you have the inside scoop. ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper (24 Apr 2006)

I've read that post earlier. Still go some contacts at Trails and Errors Evaluation.

If it comes down to it I can find out why the orignal jacket failed from T&E's DIN site.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

"Had something to do with the CADPAT material on the rain jacket."
I don't see this as a problem as the AF already has/had them.  The Army one's will be similar.  All about the Benjamen's.


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## armyvern (24 Apr 2006)

CFL said:
			
		

> "Had something to do with the CADPAT material on the rain jacket."
> I don't see this as a problem as the AF already has/had them.  The Army one's will be similar.  All about the Benjamen's.


I think the problem was more like the material that the AF raingear consisted of was just not suitable for tactical purposes. It's louder than the brakes of an LSVW coming through in the dead of night. Army trial was to involve similiar but 'different' material than that which is currently employed in the manufacture of the AF rain gear. To save money...CTS and the CEMS (Air Force) project were told to "merge" the raingear into one common design for use by both elements...not necessarily to adapt the AF gear which is good on the flight line but very loud in the trenches. 

Upon trialling new 'merged' material, some were found to have problems accepting the cadpat pattern dye. As far as I'm aware...that problem's been overcome...and now it is simply Treasury Board approval of the funding for purchase that is delaying the delivery into the system.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

Thanks for that...and the name change.


----------



## Arctic Acorn (30 Apr 2006)

Well, the new budget is supposed to be out in a few days...hopefully that will puch things along. 

 :dontpanic:


----------



## Recce41 (30 Apr 2006)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Oil doesn't eat Gore-Tex.
> 
> Have a look at what the US Air Force is using for their Bulk Fuel Handler's:
> http://www.goremilitary.com/ow_product3.html



 Well maybe you should look at the jackets some of our drivers wear. If oil and diesel doesn't eat Gor, why does my own have labels "Don't expose jacket to oils". I have a damn whole in one of my sleeves, after I splashed gas on it.


----------



## 421 EME (13 Feb 2008)

For the love of God, where is our raingear?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (13 Feb 2008)

Vern care to field this question?


----------



## geo (13 Feb 2008)

with all that snow on the ground.... ???

gimmie a break - parka weather


----------



## Gunner98 (13 Feb 2008)

In Petawawa they have been issuing new TW rain gear to Sigs pers deploying to Texas as part of TFA HQ Roto 6. AR rain gear is available enroute to KAF.


----------



## geo (14 Feb 2008)

As newbies are coming in, they are receiving their TW raingear. 
Old stocks were depleted 
It should be coming out this year to most people.


----------



## George Wallace (14 Feb 2008)

Tropical Worsted?


----------



## geo (14 Feb 2008)

:cute:


----------



## PO2FinClk (14 Feb 2008)

Temperate Woodland?


----------



## Gunner98 (14 Feb 2008)

Desert (tan) pattern is known as AR =Arid Region

Clothe the Soldier image (attached) demonstrates the reason for the name Temperate Woodland


----------



## George Wallace (14 Feb 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> :cute:



 ;D

Got some hanging up in a closet?   ;D


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## westie47 (27 Feb 2008)

TF 1-08 got the new rain gear which is very close to the air force version with a few additions, namely, pit zips, arm pockets, name tag velcro, rank slide.

All in all, it's not bad, I can't see how the mesh lining contributes aside from making it heavier.


----------



## noneck (27 Feb 2008)

I have a set of the airforce raingear and I cut out the mesh liner, it definitely makes it a lot more packable.

noneck


----------



## eR_Skaarj (5 Mar 2008)

I looking for new GTX (or more precisely say waterproof) coat and I my current choice is CADPAT Hardshell Jacket from CP GEAR.
http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=576
What do you think about it? Is it good choice?

Thanks


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## mover1 (5 Mar 2008)

save your money and have patience.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (5 Mar 2008)

noneck said:
			
		

> I have a set of the airforce raingear and I cut out the mesh liner, it definitely makes it a lot more packable.
> 
> noneck



So you have kit you aren't entitled to AND you damaged it?   ;D

FWIW, the AF raingear does have a epaulet (spelling?)  (front only) with a snap fastener for rank slip ons.


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## 421 EME (6 Mar 2008)

Still the question remains......   Where is our raingear. Yes I know that units that are going on TF are getting it for pre-depolyment train and that they should. But when the hell is the rest of us going to get it. I just want to know if we are getting soon or if I should drop some $$$$ and get a stealth suit. Any time I ask a Supply Tech this question they look at me and say " You are not entitled to the Airforce raingear ", I tell them that there is new raingear for the Army and that is in the system (cue the look of surprise) and the tell me that they never heard of it. This tells me that they (Base Supply) has little or no info on the new raingear or when we are getting it.
 I am not a kit hog, I don't want it because its new and different, my unit is in the field a lot and I spend a lot of time supporting ranges and I just want it so I can say dry and not spend my own money to do it.


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## X-mo-1979 (6 Mar 2008)

Frostnipped Elf said:
			
		

> In Petawawa they have been issuing new TW rain gear to Sigs pers deploying to Texas as part of TFA HQ Roto 6. AR rain gear is available enroute to KAF.



Nice....What about the Battle Group?
Last time I went I wasnt entilted to it.

Still had the old crappy oil stained one in Texas...and waiting.


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Mar 2008)

According to the CTS site, it is 'in contracting'.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2531_e.asp


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## 421 EME (6 Mar 2008)

The CTS site is a good reference site as to what we are getting and its care and maintenance, but how often do they update it?
( If TF units are getting the CADPAT Raingear for pre-deployment training then its no longer in contracting, its being delivered)
Someone, somewhere must know when it is going to get issued to the rest of the army, starting with all the combat arms units, then everyone else after that.


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2008)

It's in contracting for the rest of the army.

421 -- ref your PM -- fire away and I'll answer you when I get a chance (give me all the gritty details at once!! --I'm not at work -- don't know when I'll be back there, but I'll answer what I can ).

Vern


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## Yeoman (7 Mar 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Nice....What about the Battle Group?
> Last time I went I wasnt entilted to it.
> 
> Still had the old crappy oil stained one in Texas...and waiting.



before we go to wainwright.
straight from the brigade commanders mouth when it was brought up to him when he was there with Lt-Gen Leslie talking to the Mike Coy troops.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (7 Mar 2008)

Yeoman said:
			
		

> before we go to wainwright.
> straight from the brigade commanders mouth when it was brought up to him when he was there with Lt-Gen Leslie talking to the Mike Coy troops.



Thanks for the info brother...

And no there is no bomb on the plane. ;D


----------



## OldSolduer (12 Mar 2008)

This reminds me so much of the fleece fiasco (my words) when we were deployed to Bosnia in January 97. When the fleece was issued, the pers at Velika Cladusa were issued it before the BG. The NSE pers used the fleece as "lounging pajamas" during their euchre tourneys. Oh, and we were sized for Goretex jackets, parkas and pants. When we got them issued, many of the troops pants and jackets were previously worn and repaired. Guess what...the NSE had brand new stuff. Are we surprised? Then people wonder why the Infantry generally dislike "wogs". I can't speak for the Armour or Artillery or the Field Engineers.
Its the same now. How about we issue it to everyone and be done with this "sharing" of kit. And for a change, would someone please tell whoever is in charge of issuing this stuff to give the "outside the wire" people first issue? I've seen pers who never set foot outside camps (unless to go on leave) recieve an issue of kit while the troops outside had to wait.
If I am "out to lunch", please steer me in the right direction.


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## Good2Golf (12 Mar 2008)

OS, the aviators got the hand-me-down-hand-me-downs in Bosnia, the old UOR stuff that even the Army didn't want any more, but it sure was better that the absolutely non-operational blue stuff.  No disputing the sentiment caused by primo kit not being shared amongst everybody.

G2G


----------



## X-mo-1979 (12 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> This reminds me so much of the fleece fiasco (my words) when we were deployed to Bosnia in January 97. When the fleece was issued, the pers at Velika Cladusa were issued it before the BG. The NSE pers used the fleece as "lounging pajamas" during their euchre tourneys. Oh, and we were sized for Goretex jackets, parkas and pants. When we got them issued, many of the troops pants and jackets were previously worn and repaired. Guess what...the NSE had brand new stuff. Are we surprised? Then people wonder why the Infantry generally dislike "wogs". I can't speak for the Armour or Artillery or the Field Engineers.
> Its the same now. How about we issue it to everyone and be done with this "sharing" of kit. And for a change, would someone please tell whoever is in charge of issuing this stuff to give the "outside the wire" people first issue? I've seen pers who never set foot outside camps (unless to go on leave) recieve an issue of kit while the troops outside had to wait.
> If I am "out to lunch", please steer me in the right direction.



Armoured guys:
We had our "jean patch's" combats when we were there. On parade there for our medal's half of our guys were wearing combats that had cadpat sewn over the holes.My boot's had guntape as a toe.

It took my troop WO while we were patroling in VK going in and talking to the supply techs there.We got our kit finally.

No your not out to lunch Bosnia was like that.


----------



## geo (12 Mar 2008)

OS... a story that is as old as the CF (unfortunately).
Trust me, sappers are not ones to be first in line for any distribution of new kit.
You ever notice how our sappers always seem to be wearing kit worn down to the cord?  (not by choice)


----------



## OldSolduer (12 Mar 2008)

Hmmmmmm....I thought I was on the right track.
Can anyone give me any idea when the PRes will get this new rain gear?


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## X-mo-1979 (12 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Hmmmmmm....I thought I was on the right track.
> Can anyone give me any idea when the PRes will get this new rain gear?



I would be asking the same question for the battle group deploying.


----------



## OldSolduer (12 Mar 2008)

X-Mo if you are asking that question, then our issue is years away. I'm not holding my breath on this one.


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## geo (12 Mar 2008)

Last I checked, they have pert much cleaned out the inventory of OD raingear.
I believe they started issuing the new CADPAT raingear to the St Jean recruits last fall... cause they had nothing else available for them.  So... distribution shouldn't be too far down the pipeline.


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## OldSolduer (12 Mar 2008)

Well geo that is good news. 
With the Total Force concept, the Reg Force and PRes are supposed to be close to equal partners.
As an aside, some of my troops who are currently away....are performing at levels that are equivalent to their Reg Force brothers!!

One more question, and if its been answered, boot my old tail end over to the proper area:

When is the PRes infantry going to be issued the new ruck?I've tried it on and I like it. But the proof of the pudding (in this case the ruck) is in the eating (otherwise known as tactical exercises and ruck marches).

Thnaks for listening to a rambling 50 year old (but going on about 19 or so)


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Mar 2008)

Slow down there OS, the new ruck is only now starting to get fielded to the BG and the Reg Force give it some time for it to get down to the P.Res level.


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## OldSolduer (12 Mar 2008)

Hey there NFLD, I know I have to wait our turn....looking after the troops is all I'm trying to do...


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Mar 2008)

I know, would be nice if we all got it at the same time but we all know that won't happen.


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## benny88 (12 Mar 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> I believe they started issuing the new CADPAT raingear to the St Jean recruits last fall... cause they had nothing else available for them.  So... distribution shouldn't be too far down the pipeline.



  Confirmed. I was issued the CADPAT raingear in St. Jean last summer. Because I am Air Force, I had to give mine back, but the Army guys kept theirs IIRC. And at RMC it's re-issued to Navy and AF types, I believe. Too bad I'm Civvy-U, I loved that stuff!


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## Yeoman (12 Mar 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info brother...
> 
> And no there is no bomb on the plane. ;D



crap someone's on to my shenanigans again
he did not give us a date, just before we go out to wainwright. I know exactly what my platoon warrant is going to be doing as soon as everyone is off of leave


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## danchapps (12 Mar 2008)

From what I heard from my supervisor yesterday or today, the army rain gear is getting sent to those on the next roto first, then to the brigade level, then filter down, so Borden might see it in 2 years, who knows.

Benny, as for the CADPAT rain gear issued from St-Jean, this is the A/F stuff they issued. You should have kept yours, as I have no idea why they would have taken it from you. I had my nice CADPAT rain gear taken and replaced with the OD stuff. Navy should also have OD if I'm not mistaken, maybe the yellow stuff. This I'm not too sure as I'm on a land locked base, so I just don't see it. I don't know if the differences between the A/F gear and the army stuff has been discussed, but the army kit has a Velcro strip for name tags, pocket on the arms, and something else, but I can't remember. Can't wait to get it though, it looks nice.


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## BinRat55 (12 Mar 2008)

Ok, here it is (i'll do my best)...

Firstly, it's all about entitlement.  Cadpat Raingear is a CTS (Clothe the Soldier) item, and as such, only Army personnel are entitled to it.  That DOES include AF and Sea pers employed in a CC2 position (operational - generally on an Army base).  I am army component, but because I am on a hard AF base, i'm entitled to the AF version Cadpat rainwear.  I HAVE to give it back when I leave. Entitlement.  Any land or sea components NOT employed on an Air base or not in direct support of air ops are NOT entitled to AF rainwear.

Now, most of you will notice that I spoke mainly regarding AF rainwear - that's because the army's version (in TW) is not available yet.  What some believe are en route to KAF is actually AR.  The TW for the army will not be available for at least 6 more months - rollout from the first production line will occur in Sep 08.  These will undoubtedly head overseas.  For first line combat arms, look for it to arrive at your units just after next Christmas.  For the rest of us - next summer (usual caveats apply).  DO NOT TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL - crap pops up all the time and your respective supply techs are doing the best they can with what they've got - which sometimes ain't much!!


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## geo (12 Mar 2008)

..... all that to say... it's in the works.
Initial distribution will always go 1st to Operational units (TFs) tasked for overseas or already there.... then back down the food chain.
I am not certain if the AF and the LF have rationalized their raingear (had heard that that was in the works).  Once immediate needs are satisfied, they may decide to distribute on a area by area basis (Reg & Res).. guess it's going to be a question of immediate need.


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Ok, here it is (i'll do my best)...
> 
> Firstly, it's all about entitlement. * Cadpat Raingear is a CTS (Clothe the Soldier) item*, and as such, only Army personnel are entitled to it.  That DOES include AF and Sea pers employed in a CC2 position (operational - generally on an Army base).  I am army component, but because I am on a hard AF base, i'm entitled to the AF version Cadpat rainwear.  I HAVE to give it back when I leave. Entitlement.  Any land or sea components NOT employed on an Air base or not in direct support of air ops are NOT entitled to AF rainwear.
> 
> Now, most of you will notice that I spoke mainly regarding AF rainwear - that's because the army's version (in TW) is not available yet.  What some believe are en route to KAF is actually AR.  The TW for the army will not be available for at least 6 more months - rollout from the first production line will occur in Sep 08.  These will undoubtedly head overseas.  For first line combat arms, look for it to arrive at your units just after next Christmas.  For the rest of us - next summer (usual caveats apply).  DO NOT TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL - crap pops up all the time and your respective supply techs are doing the best they can with what they've got - which sometimes ain't much!!



Not entirely true, the Air Force one was bought under the AF Milenium Project same for the original CADPAT Jacket.


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## BinRat55 (12 Mar 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> ..... all that to say... it's in the works.



Yes, i'm guilty of rambling - it's the Supply Tech in me!!  I think I was trying to capture a few of the questions posed earlier as well as anticipate a few later...



> Not entirely true, the Air Force one was bought under the AF Milenium Project same for the original CADPAT Jacket.



Sapper you are correct - I know what I was thinking (Army issue) but being in Gander, sometimes I neglect certain pieces of info...


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Mar 2008)

No problem there BinRat.

:cheers:


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## willy (12 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Now, most of you will notice that I spoke mainly regarding AF rainwear - that's because the army's version (in TW) is not available yet.  What some believe are en route to KAF is actually AR.  The TW for the army will not be available for at least 6 more months - rollout from the first production line will occur in Sep 08.  These will undoubtedly head overseas.  For first line combat arms, look for it to arrive at your units just after next Christmas.  For the rest of us - next summer (usual caveats apply).  DO NOT TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL - crap pops up all the time and your respective supply techs are doing the best they can with what they've got - which sometimes ain't much!!



I see all kinds of guys around Pet wearing CADPAT raingear with sleeve pockets and a velcro patch for their nametag.  That isn't the airforce raingear, unless it's an upgrade to the original design.  If it isn't the army raingear either, then what exactly is it?


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## dangerboy (12 Mar 2008)

willy said:
			
		

> I see all kinds of guys around Pet wearing CADPAT raingear with sleeve pockets and a velcro patch for their nametag.  That isn't the airforce raingear, unless it's an upgrade to the original design.  If it isn't the army raingear either, then what exactly is it?


I have mine with sleeve pockets and velcro patch, the tag says "Jacket H/W" whatever H/W means is anyones guess.


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Mar 2008)

"Jacket H/W" = Jacket, Hot Weather 

IIRC


----------



## dangerboy (12 Mar 2008)

Makes sense, I would not want to wear it in real hot weather but whatever.


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## Ecco (12 Mar 2008)

The contract for Army Raingear is still up for grabs.

http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.Asp?WCE=Show&TAB=1&PORTAL=MERX&State=7&id=PW-%24%24PR-729-41057&FED_ONLY=0&hcode=G3jM2RuYfw25XpzAPwHVZQ%3d%3d

It's now called the Converged CADPAT Rainsuit because the Air Force are buying the same as the Army.  It now has pockets on sleeves:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2531_e.asp


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Mar 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> It's now called the Converged CADPAT Rainsuit because the Air Force are buying the same as the Army.  It now has pockets on sleeves:
> 
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2531_e.asp



Actually I think is the other way around there lad.

"The convergence with the Air Force’s “2 in 1” rainsuit, allowed the Army to optimize the current design while adding modifications that include customized fit options, improved ventilation and additional pockets"


----------



## BinRat55 (13 Mar 2008)

willy said:
			
		

> I see all kinds of guys around Pet wearing CADPAT raingear with sleeve pockets and a velcro patch for their nametag.  That isn't the airforce raingear, unless it's an upgrade to the original design.  If it isn't the army raingear either, then what exactly is it?



Normally I would answer "T&E" (Trials and Evaluation) but I don't think Dangerboy is in T&E PL.  What you're seeing is in fact the Converged Pattern Rainwear (Souped up Army version of the AF initial design) After confirming with the depot in Montreal there are extremely limited qtys (in the hundreds) of certain sizes.  I have yet to speak with a supply tech in Pet regarding this.  When I find out more I will let you know.


----------



## Gunner98 (13 Mar 2008)

willy said:
			
		

> I see all kinds of guys around Pet wearing CADPAT raingear with sleeve pockets and a velcro patch for their nametag.  That isn't the airforce raingear, unless it's an upgrade to the original design.  If it isn't the army raingear either, then what exactly is it?



Those people are from the TF Roto 6 HQ & Sigs and were authorized for issue of the Army rain gear in Jan/Feb 08.


----------



## geo (13 Mar 2008)

...which ties in quite nicely with my above statement


----------



## BinRat55 (13 Mar 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> ...which ties in quite nicely with my above statement



Well that's just it see.  Who better to trial operational kit than personnel in theater?  I personally would prefer a TR that read, "During a particular recce/patrol I wore the damn thing for hours.  It was f%#$@ hot!! The friggin zipper broke because it was plastic and the gravy stain from my IMP is STILL there..." than read, "This particular jacket looks fantastic against the backdrop of the Rideau Canal. Two other Col's were commenting on it over in the Crow's Nest and were quite jealous. The fit was outstanding as it did not chafe my underarms during my morning coffee with the SWO..."

Honestly!!


----------



## Eye In The Sky (13 Mar 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> It's now called the Converged CADPAT Rainsuit because the Air Force are buying the same as the Army.  It now has pockets on sleeves:
> 
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2531_e.asp



No, actually, the Air Force version is not the same. 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/cems/ItemsAndClothing/Clothing/HWRG_SDWS_e.htm

CTS is Army.  CEMS is Air Force.  2 different projects under ADM (Mat) Group Projects. 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/site/projects_e.asp

I have not seen one person in the Air Force that is issued and wearing the Army CCR.  And FWIW, the Air Force received its issue of HWRG/SDWS raingear ages ago.  Are they recalling it all to modify it or something?   :


----------



## geo (13 Mar 2008)

Eye in the sky.... nor should you see any for a while...
The AF ordered an inventory of said raingear (the army didn't).  As the kit has been bought and paid for, they will use it.  Once, and only once the stock on hand is expired, they will bring in the converged suit.  Remember, the army didn't want the AF model cause it wanted changes implemented BEFORE placing their order - so they won't help the AF run down the old stuff.


----------



## rambo123 (13 Mar 2008)

It is called a convergance rain gear because the army looked at the rain gear the airforce bought and added their own tweeks to it espically hidding the reflector tape in the back and the frontthank god for that and adding a pocket to the arm to hold the personal role radio, and pockets inside and on the bottom of the jacket to have other equipment stored.


----------



## Loachman (13 Mar 2008)

rambo123 said:
			
		

> It is called a convergance rain gear because the army looked at the rain gear the airforce bought and added their own tweeks to it espically hidding the reflector tape in the back and the frontthank god for that and adding a pocket to the arm to hold the personal role radio, and pockets inside and on the bottom of the jacket to have other equipment stored.



The sniper aids are already hideable. Many wearers are either ignorant of this or too lazy to bother hiding them.

The Army version also has armpit zippers.


----------



## westie47 (13 Mar 2008)

I think the sleeve pockets are too small for the PRR, I can hardly get three fingers into those pockets.  

As far as I was told in  Edmonton, this is the new ARMY raingear. TF 1-08 got it first. Maybe that was only a limited run and they still haven't awarded a contract.


----------



## benny88 (13 Mar 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> "Jacket H/W" = Jacket, Hot Weather
> 
> IIRC



Could be " Hiver/Winter "? But then I guess you'd wear a parka or something...


----------



## BernDawg (13 Mar 2008)

"The sniper aids are already hideable. Many wearers are either ignorant of this or too lazy to bother hiding them."

Or in our case the Wing Chief has ordered them displayed during winter months - no exceptions.  I'll be able to put them up soon though.


----------



## BinRat55 (13 Mar 2008)

BernDawg said:
			
		

> "The sniper aids are already hideable. Many wearers are either ignorant of this or too lazy to bother hiding them."
> 
> Or in our case the Wing Chief has ordered them displayed during winter months - no exceptions.  I'll be able to put them up soon though.



The purpose of the reflectors (for those who do not know) is visibility on the flight line.  That being said, the jacket should not reflective unless you are actually ON the flight line - there are some Chief's that wish to go against this - their call, that's why they're the Chief.  We, however, are practicing proper FL etiquette.  BTW, isn't it a little chilly to wear raingear during the winter months (unless you're in Comox)?


----------



## McG (13 Mar 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> No, actually, the Air Force version is not the same.


No, actually, the Air Force version was not the same.  The information you are disputing is correct for the way things are going now.  I can tell you for certain that some times different projects deliver the exact same item of kit, so the fact that separate Land & Air projects exist does not prove anything.



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Are they recalling it all to modify it or something?


There is another way.  Those who have the AF specific item keep it (until such time as it needs replacing or they end-up in an Army environment) and those getting issued new will get the converged rain gear.  It could also be an immediate 1 for 1 replacement at clothing stores.  It's also possible that the plan has not yet been written.


----------



## danchapps (13 Mar 2008)

From what I heard from my supervisor the other day it was Edmonton first, then Pet, then it will filter down. Those that received these were heading out on tour. After those on tour get their kit then it will filter out, most likely starting again with Edmonton, then Pet, then everyone else as stock permits. Having seen both sets, the army kit is much more useful, and trust me folks, it's going to be worth the wait, have patience.


----------



## Sig_Des (14 Mar 2008)

rambo123 said:
			
		

> adding a pocket to the arm to hold the personal role radio, and pockets inside and on the bottom of the jacket to have other equipment stored.



Where are you getting your information? It's a rain jacket, not load-bearing equipment. Sleeve pockets made for the PRR? I'm gonna call BS on you here. And pockets to store equipment? What kind of equipment are you talking about? If the sleeve pocket is for the PRR, what do you want to put there, the Battery Charger?

I'm now under the assumption, between this and other threads, that you don't know what you're talking about. Prove me wrong.


----------



## TN2IC (14 Mar 2008)

As long as I can put my smokes in that pocket... I'm fine.


----------



## BinRat55 (14 Mar 2008)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Where are you getting your information? It's a rain jacket, not load-bearing equipment. Sleeve pockets made for the PRR? I'm gonna call BS on you here. And pockets to store equipment? What kind of equipment are you talking about? If the sleeve pocket is for the PRR, what do you want to put there, the Battery Charger?
> 
> I'm now under the assumption, between this and other threads, that you don't know what you're talking about. Prove me wrong.



Ummm... not to get in the middle here, but there actually ARE pockets specifically designed for the sleves of the converged pattern raingear... I meant it when I said that the converged raingear was the army's souped up version... It's "ARMY-TIZED!!!"

True story.  Check out the Clothe The Soldier website - "Features on the jacket include a hood, front cargo pockets..." and "The addition of sleeve pockets for note pads and a PRR (Personal Role Radio) with access inside of the pocket for the ear piece cable "

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2531_e.asp

Consider yourself proven wrong...


----------



## Sig_Des (14 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> True story.  Check out the Clothe The Soldier website - "Features on the jacket include a hood, front cargo pockets..." and "The addition of sleeve pockets for note pads and a PRR (Personal Role Radio) with access inside of the pocket for the ear piece cable "
> 
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2531_e.asp
> 
> Consider yourself proven wrong...



I know it has pocket sleeves, but putting a PRR in that pocket is an effective place for a PRR. Too small, not secure enough, no easy access.


----------



## McG (14 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> From what I heard from my supervisor the other day it was Edmonton first, then Pet, then it will filter down.


Your supervisor is misinformed.  The guy who will write the distribution plan says that he's not yet started it.


----------



## geo (14 Mar 2008)

Whupsie.... op: :argument:


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## BinRat55 (14 Mar 2008)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> I know it has pocket sleeves, but putting a PRR in that pocket is an effective place for a PRR. Too small, not secure enough, no easy access.



I don't know about that as i've never worn a PRR (at least the TCCCS version, anyway) and i've not seen the pocket up close and for real yet so I reserve judgement on what would and wouldn't fit there.  BUT... according to the CTS website, it DOES state the pocket WAS designed for the PRR.  You called BS on Rambo (who should REALLY fill out his/her profile) who more than likely got the info off the website. That being said...

Sgt Schultz - It may ALSO fit a small metal flask (top of the trucker kit list isn't it? Co-drivers and trench-diggers only of course...)   ;D


----------



## BinRat55 (14 Mar 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> Your supervisor is misinformed.  The guy who will write the distribution plan says that he's not yet started it.



Snicker - or more like  :warstory: If I had a nickle for everytime I've been told at clothing stores that "My boss told us yesterday in an o-group..."


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## OldSolduer (14 Mar 2008)

Helmets on troops!!!!
Now that we MAY be issued new rain gear, how long will it be before some "kitosaurus" decrees that unless its raining you can't wear it?

I remember our CO in 97 would wear his rain jacket every day in the field, as Shilo gets kinda windy in October. The RSM thought it was a good idea.
The regime changed in 98 and that order of dress was promptly tossed out the window, much to our chagrin. This came from the same guy who told a soldier to go prone on a live fire section attack where the bush was about knee high, and if he was prone he wouldn't be able to see the targets....
I take it you see my point here.....


----------



## danchapps (14 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Snicker - or more like  :warstory: If I had a nickle for everytime I've been told at clothing stores that "My boss told us yesterday in an o-group..."



Wasn't in O-group that I was told this. I could be wrong about the follow up distribution, I more than likely forgot what exactly was said, so for that I apologize. However, with that being said, I have 2 bins in stores right now that do in fact have the new coat. One size is stupid small, the other size is stupid large. We don't have many of them, and we don't hand them out, and I don't think we are supposed to. I'll take a look Monday and see if you can in fact get a pack of smokes in or not, or even better, I could measure, guess how far out it comes and publish my findings. Would you folks be happy with that? I was only stating that I was told that some folks in Ed got it, now some guys in Pet are getting it. After that, who knows.


----------



## BinRat55 (14 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> I'll take a look Monday and see if you can in fact get a pack of smokes in or not, or even better, I could measure, guess how far out it comes and publish my findings.



Do that for me will ya please?  I'm curious now...


----------



## danchapps (14 Mar 2008)

Will do. They look fantastic, but will look even better when we can get them out of the bins and onto the troops.


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## riggermade (14 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> I remember our CO in 97 would wear his rain jacket every day in the field, as Shilo gets kinda windy in October. The RSM thought it was a good idea.



That sounds like the troops here in Pet who insist on where a toque when it is above 0...always drove me crazy


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## BinRat55 (15 Mar 2008)

I know this is kinda off topic here, but in response to Riggermade - there was this "fiasco" in the early 90's with the air pers wearing the wedge with combats (during stables) and a certain RSM absolutely VIBRATED!!!  Well, there was a few weeks where we all were told to carry our helmet (the old brain bucket) because it was expected that THIS was going to be our headdress if the AF pers didn't "conform" and wear the green berets while in cbts.  It never happened and about 6 months later they invented the AF blue beret!!

Don't even get me STARTED about smoking in the car!!!


----------



## Love793 (15 Mar 2008)

I foresee a clearance sale at unit kitshops on Stealth Suits ;D


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## medaid (15 Mar 2008)

Love793 said:
			
		

> I foresee a clearance sale at unit kitshops on Stealth Suits ;D



I don't. There is a place for stealth suits and a place for the rain gear.


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## NL_engineer (16 Mar 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> I don't. There is a place for stealth suits and a place for the rain gear.




I think he is referring to something/someone making them be cleared out :


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## mover1 (16 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> I have 2 bins in stores right now that do in fact have the new coat. ..... We don't have many of them, and we don't hand them out...Would you folks be happy with that...



Out of context its quite funny..... 
I am sorry if you see it on the shelf but I can't give it to you because the computer says I have none in stock, or

 I can't give you one because we only have 6 left. 

;D


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## danchapps (16 Mar 2008)

I don't think we have the approval to hand them out. I'm sure there are more than six in stock, but we only have 2 sizes. For all I know we could have received them in error, or they could have been for those going overseas. I tend not to ask because it's out of my lane. When I'm told I can dish them out, then I dish them out. Anyway, for anyone that hasn't seen what the new coats look like, Sgt. Major Libby can be seen in one in the documentary "Life And Death In Kandahar". Again, I'll try and get some measurements on the pockets for you guys in the morning.


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## Shamrock (16 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> I don't think we have the approval to hand them out. I'm sure there are more than six in stock, but we only have 2 sizes.



Too big and too small.


----------



## danchapps (16 Mar 2008)

Yeah, I think one size is something like 7652 or something, so unless you are a giant, then it's a no go. Haven't a clue what the other size is though.


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## armyvern (17 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> Yeah, I think one size is something like 7652 or something, so unless you are a giant, then it's a no go. Haven't a clue what the other size is though.



We have a whole 2 people who wear that size jacket here. They exist ... and even *I * would not want to piss _them_ off.  


The tiny size is a 6426 --[pants] and we have quite a few who actually swim in it --- although I can't get the damn things over my friggin' feet!!


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Mar 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> No, actually, the Air Force version was not the same.  The information you are disputing is correct for the way things are going now.  I can tell you for certain that some times different projects deliver the exact same item of kit, so the fact that separate Land & Air projects exist does not prove anything.



The Air Force version is still not the same.  Perhaps in the future, there will be one CADPAT raingear issued to both Army and Air Force, but thats not the case now and neither the CEMS or CTS project sites indicate that.  Sure different projects deliver the same kit, if it meets the requirements of both services, such as the LWCC, CWWG or CSS.  The Air Force and Army raingear are not the same at this time.  

If you have a source that indicates there will be 1 common CADPAT raingear issued to the Air Force via CEMS, and the Army via CTS, can you provide it?


----------



## armyvern (17 Mar 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The Air Force version is still not the same.  Perhaps in the future, there will be one CADPAT raingear issued to both Army and Air Force, but thats not the case now and neither the CEMS or CTS project sites indicate that.  Sure different projects deliver the same kit, if it meets the requirements of both services, such as the LWCC, CWWG or CSS.  The Air Force and Army raingear are not the same at this time.
> 
> If you have a source that indicates there will be 1 common CADPAT raingear issued to the Air Force via CEMS, and the Army via CTS, can you provide it?



He's correct.

The cadpat raingear now coming into the system is "merged" pattern <---- exactly as what eventually occured with the cadpat uniform.

YES -- there is still "AF pattern" cadpat raingear out there and there will be until it is all worn out and disposed of. It'll only be used by AF pers though due to changes that the Army required to make the raingear suitable for the Army's wear.

There is cadpat raingear being issued to certain op Army Units at this time. It is of the "merged" pattern, and IS the pattern which all Land and Air pers will find themselves wearing eventually (once that AF gear wears out).


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Mar 2008)

Well I have to say, it certainly makes sense.  So everyone in the army with have hideable reflectors and the AF will be happy with the "FOD-i-ness" of this converged design?   ;D

Editted to add - MCG, I stand corrected, you were spot on.  From the link 
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/PDF/Conv_Rainsuit_e.pdf

_*The rainsuit, comprising of a jacket and trousers, is a converged design meeting the Air Force and Army’s requirements for a suitable rainsuit system.*_


----------



## geo (17 Mar 2008)

.... which is pert much what I brought up many posts ago.

No one will destroy existing stocks.
The army will not wear the original AF style rain suit
The AF will wair the Merged kit once it has used up existing stocks in the sizes they have on the shelf.

Go figure.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Mar 2008)

Geo,

Understood.  I was looking for something 'on paper' to show to the local Supply folks though.   ;D
The CEMS site should be updated to indicate the intent with the CCR as well.


----------



## danchapps (17 Mar 2008)

So I did my little measurement today and the arm pocket is 4 3/4" x 6 1/2", and by eyeballing it, I doubt it will fit anything bigger than a 20 pack. However not having a pack of smokes I can't find out for sure.

Also, having looked at the two rain coats side by side there are more differences than you would imagine. I would hardly compare the two at this point, other than they are both CADPAT, and both protect from rain. I can't wait for my Converged rain coat.


----------



## BinRat55 (17 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> I can't wait for my Converged rain coat.



Oh my, the unadulterated innocence of people!!  There was a time when I had THAT much enthusiasm for "kit".  Now, I can't wait to get out of this monkey suit!!  Don't get me wrong, I love my job, love the military, adore Hillier and the whole nine yards, but when people "can't wait" for certain kit like it's freakin Christmas!!!  Wow.


----------



## geo (17 Mar 2008)

Binrat.... if you've bin there and done that and have the worn out rainsuit to show for it then YESD you can't wait to get your new one.


----------



## TN2IC (17 Mar 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> Yeah, I think one size is something like 7652 or something, so unless you are a giant, then it's a no go. Haven't a clue what the other size is though.




I"ll take one in that size then please! I prefere a 44... but...  ;D


----------



## medaid (17 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Oh my, the unadulterated innocence of people!!  There was a time when I had THAT much enthusiasm for "kit".  Now, I can't wait to get out of this monkey suit!!  Don't get me wrong, I love my job, love the military, adore Hillier and the whole nine yards, but when people "can't wait" for certain kit like it's freakin Christmas!!!  Wow.



Doesn't that kind of also show how deprived our soldiers are when it comes to good and functional kit? I mean look at the Americans, they've been t the Gore-Tex stage how long now? The shell and liner stage for how long? We're really behind in the game, and honestly what's with people being excited to finally be able to get some kit that'll be good for many seasons, and NOT have to go out of pocket at the same time?!


----------



## BinRat55 (17 Mar 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Doesn't that kind of also show how deprived our soldiers are when it comes to good and functional kit? I mean look at the Americans, they've been t the Gore-Tex stage how long now? The shell and liner stage for how long? We're really behind in the game, and honestly what's with people being excited to finally be able to get some kit that'll be good for many seasons, and NOT have to go out of pocket at the same time?!



I'll agree and disagree here.  I know our soldiers are deprived.  As Geo pointed out to me earlier - I actually HAVE been there, done that, but unfortunately i'm not doing it anymore (hazards of being on an air base) There are many, many growing pains regarding personal kit as well as major buys, and i'll be the first to argue we need to get the kit where it needs to be.  Just this afternoon I received instruction to NOT issue the ARID kit here, as it will be an in-theater responsibility.  Now THAT'S going in the right direction.  It will come, and soon we will all have the right kit for the right job for the right soldier/airman/navyplug (my apologies to all the plugs out there).

We are NOT, however, behind in anything.  In actual fact, Canada was the first to adopt the Cadpat (C) and expand into the G-Tex from the Integrated Environmental Clothing System and actually ISSUE it to our troops, not sell it.  Our CTS program is in a league of it's own.  There are many developments in the system now that most people take for granted because that is what they were issued in basic.  Let me tell you, it was over a year before I figured I was allowed to wear something other that those polyester boxers!!  And that shirt Cold Weather??  My neck was red and sore for a week after every winter ex.  Now we have polypro.  The Americans do not have the "systems" that we have when it comes to kit.  The problem is that they don't have the production issues we have!!


----------



## OldSolduer (17 Mar 2008)

Some of the problems I see when a new piece of kit comes on line (or is due to):

1. The saving of money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of the soldiers. I hope, and maybe someone on here will confirm this, is the sharing of kit over? Reference: Goretex kit handed over to the next tour.
2. The issuing of said kit, ie CADPAT rain gear. It seems that the base clerk that sits in the OR gets the kit before the field soldier does. Can we please ensure that the troops that need it get it first? Maybe this has changed.....if so I'll stop blathering.


----------



## BinRat55 (17 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Some of the problems I see when a new piece of kit comes on line (or is due to):
> 
> 1. The saving of money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of the soldiers. I hope, and maybe someone on here will confirm this, is the sharing of kit over? Reference: Goretex kit handed over to the next tour.
> 2. The issuing of said kit, ie CADPAT rain gear. It seems that the base clerk that sits in the OR gets the kit before the field soldier does. Can we please ensure that the troops that need it get it first? Maybe this has changed.....if so I'll stop blathering.



Ok OS, you can stop blathering now...  

In response to your #1 - The sharing of kit is, for the most part, over.  The personal kit will be issued to an individual who is entitled until such time as the soldier becomes not entitled.  This is true with most CTS items.  The entitlements have broadened as well, entitling more individuals to more kit in more places... However, mass kittings and kit returns will be the bill of fare for the majority of missions abroad, as mission specific kit will always be just that - mission specific.  That means that ALL individuals would only be entitled to that kit for 6 - 12 months max.  We can't just "toss" this stuff and reissue new to new pers, there is a life-cycle to be adhered to.  So, while the growing pains continue, so will kit sharing to a degree.  Supply regs are as stringent as the I/C of Clothing Stores will allow and fight for, given a warehouse full of garbage or a seacan full of brand new kit - we still have to deny exchanges prior to 50% wear.

In response to your #2 - This was ironed out some time ago.  If you go to the CTS site, you will see the order of disbursement of such kit, and in seeing this, you will notice that all first line (mainly combat arms) units are first in line to receive the kit upon rollout.  One has to keep in mind here that the kit just doesn't come from the manufacturer right to your units.  We have guru's in Ottawa (we sup techs have another name for some of them) whose job it is to get it to the supply depots so we (your friendly neighborhood QM / Clothing Stores) can order it.  The problem that we keep running into is when EVERYONE in the supply system sees that the depot now has the "gucci" kit - they start ordering.  This ties the supply manager up for weeks, sorting out entitlements and such, effectively slowing down the injection of new kit where it belongs...


----------



## danchapps (17 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> There are many developments in the system now that most people take for granted because that is what they were issued in basic.



Pretty much the reason for me being excited about the new Rain Gear. I was issued the A/F Suit in St-Jean, had no clue it was A/F only until they took it back upon graduation and gave me the OD outfit. I am all for making sure those in the field get the kit before I do, because really, how often does it rain in the warehouse? (Rhetorical question, I don't think we need the leaky roof horror stories in this thread!)

I'll just say I know I am very fortunate to be issued the kit we have now, and believe me, I appreciate the hardships the previous generation of CF members had to endure for me to get what we have.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (17 Mar 2008)

I'm trying hard to understand these "entitlement" charts.

How come my unit F esch per's seem to get the stuff years after others who use it around base?

And when can I swing by Petawawa stores and pick mine up?

Can someone give me a copy of the entitlement chart?Be interesting to see anyway.


----------



## armyvern (18 Mar 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Geo,
> 
> Understood.  I was looking for something 'on paper' to show to the local Supply folks though.   ;D
> The CEMS site should be updated to indicate the intent with the CCR as well.



Your local Supply folks knew this. If they knew how to check their DIN site (and scales on CFSS WebQuery) for updates ...


----------



## armyvern (18 Mar 2008)

Sgt  Schultz said:
			
		

> I"ll take one in that size then please! I prefere a 44... but...  ;D



NO!! I'm glad you are gone from Gagetown because then I'd have had to put "3" in there earlier after dealing with all your custom made kit.

Yikes.


----------



## armyvern (18 Mar 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> The problem that we keep running into is when EVERYONE in the supply system sees that the depot now has the "gucci" kit - they start ordering.  This ties the supply manager up for weeks, sorting out entitlements and such, effectively slowing down the injection of new kit where it belongs...



Actually this problem was sorted out years ago. New kit coming online carries with it the IM advisory (SSI) code of "order offline via QD message". Any clothing stores can put all the demands (ie "pull" the stock from the depot) they want into the CFSS for Gucci kit, but they aren't going to get it --it'll just sit in there unactionned by the SM.

Now, items are "pushed" out to the appropriate bases BY the SM based upon CTS' priority for distribution. This ensures that those Units going overseas on Ops etc get it first ... and that they get it in the qtys that they required.

Everyone else can sit back and ask "when are we getting ours" all they want, but the fact of the matter is --- you'll get it when those Bases/Units that are ahead of yours are fully kitted, and those Units trg/deployment cycles determine completion of issue timelines. Therefore, no firm dates or expected timelines for delivery to other Units can be given until the higher priority Units ahead of you are looked after. This is a good thing -- they need it first, and others need not worry --- theirs WILL come ... eventually.


----------



## armyvern (18 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Some of the problems I see when a new piece of kit comes on line (or is due to):
> 
> 1. The saving of money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of the soldiers. I hope, and maybe someone on here will confirm this, is the sharing of kit over? Reference: Goretex kit handed over to the next tour.
> 2. The issuing of said kit, ie CADPAT rain gear. It seems that the base clerk that sits in the OR gets the kit before the field soldier does. Can we please ensure that the troops that need it get it first? Maybe this has changed.....if so I'll stop blathering.



Ref your number two: perhaps that Base OR clerk was previosly posted to an AF base and thus was entitled to and was issued the AF raingear (perhaps they even wore blue DEU)?? The Army DOES work it's priorities for kit issues with a priority on deploying Units, then op field Units, then support Units.

But, one must always remember that support personnel move around a lot, and deploy all the time -- quite often with battle groups which are not mounting at their home Unit, and thus they may have become entitled (and been issued) the kit earlier due to these factors.

There was nothing worse I tell you than being the Clothing Stores sgt when 403 Sqn was issued their cadpat raingear by us (from the CEMS project) ... I had every CSM/RSM on base calling me and ranting about "why the hell are you giving cadpat raingear to AF people first!!" to which the reply was "because it's Air Force raingear, bought and paid for with Air Force money -- not Army kit ... you aren't entitled".


----------



## armyvern (18 Mar 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I'm trying hard to understand these "entitlement" charts.
> 
> How come my unit F esch per's seem to get the stuff years after others who use it around base?
> 
> ...



Did you read the thread??

There is no entitlement chart for the cadpat raingear as of yet, and NO distribution plan put into effect. But, you can bet your bottom dollar that pers deploying on upcoming TFs will receive this kit first ... and that a distribution plan will be put into place to distribute to field Units, then support Units based on NDHQs (CTS') determination of Unit priorities. You'll get yours when your Unit makes it to the top of that list (if you don't deploy and thus be issued it sooner) ... no one knows when that will be because it is all dependant upon how long it takes to fully complete the issues to the TFs and Units ahead of yours on the as-yet-to-be-determined distribution list.

And, as for any new piece of kit -- it isn't clothing stores that issues to "Unit X" ahead of yours --- we issue to whom (and when) CTS directs us to.


----------



## BinRat55 (18 Mar 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Actually this problem was sorted out years ago. New kit coming online carries with it the IM advisory (SSI) code of "order offline via QD message". Any clothing stores can put all the demands (ie "pull" the stock from the depot) they want into the CFSS for Gucci kit, but they aren't going to get it --it'll just sit in there unactionned by the SM.



You know as well as I do that SSI's don't stop some supply techs from trying.  Now, I know that as long as they are not entitled, they won't get one over on the SM, but some people will still try, and this ties the SM up needlessly.  On top of that, you have MIS cells (or SM(F)) working to clear unactioned files...


----------



## BinRat55 (18 Mar 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> There was nothing worse I tell you than being the Clothing Stores sgt when 403 Sqn was issued their cadpat raingear by us (from the CEMS project) ... I had every CSM/RSM on base calling me and ranting about "why the hell are you giving cadpat raingear to AF people first!!" to which the reply was "because it's Air Force raingear, bought and paid for with Air Force money -- not Army kit ... you aren't entitled".



I remember that - I was on the front counter!!  I don't know who I was more afraid for - the Sgt about to get it from the RSM, or the RSM about get the answer from the Sgt!!! (And we ALL know who that Sgt was...)


----------



## geo (18 Mar 2008)

Well, to be quite honest, as the RSM going to QM I was quite respectful of the QM NCOs who served / serve me.  Respect begets respect IMHO... So long as I get a clear and coherent answer to my queery, that answer is good enough for me (Lord knows as SQMS I had to deal with impatient customers  )


----------



## BinRat55 (18 Mar 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Respect begets respect IMHO...



That's all we ask from anybody.  It doesn't matter if you're a no-hook or a 4 ringer, if you can't have it - you can't have it.  If I don't have it, neither do you.  But I will be respectfull and do my darnedest to explain why.  There are still a lot of people under the perception that the supply tech or even combat storesman they encounter are the one that made the decision to not give them the kit in the first place.  I'd like to get a few (hundred) in my warehouse for a few minutes... 

BUT... there are a few combat arms people such as Geo here, who have see the other side and can empathize... Remember - you can't read the amount of experience one soldier has by the look on his face, but you can by the tone of his voice in the face of adversity...


----------



## OldSolduer (18 Mar 2008)

I can understand your postion BinRat. 
Years ago, when the first generation of fleece was issued, civilian employes were wearing it in CFB Shilo, openly, while the Guns and 2VP were told it was operational kit only.
It's situations like this that make the field soldier suspicious of supply techs and clerks....no offence intended.
I must say the supply side has improved tremendously since 1997.


----------



## geo (18 Mar 2008)

since 1997?

Not that much

But since 1970, you're darned straight!


----------



## danchapps (18 Mar 2008)

I like to pride myself as up and coming trying to make sure everyone gets what they need, and are treated as well as they can be. I don't lose my cool with the customers, and try and calm them down when they get all bent out of shape. I like to make sure the kit they get is right for them, fits right and is in good working order. I also explain to them why I take so long fitting boots, so that they don't come back because the boot stretched. Anyway, I'm rambling again, and I somehow went from rain gear to boots, I apologize.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (18 Mar 2008)

For all those in petawawa who were told we were getting it prior to wainwright,dont bet on it.
Even with some of our higher esch with us,we didnt get squat.Even though it was pushed down for us to go get it.
Base clothing has never heard of it.


----------



## armyvern (19 Mar 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> For all those in petawawa who were told we were getting it prior to wainwright,dont bet on it.
> Even with some of our higher esch with us,we didnt get squat.Even though it was pushed down for us to go get it.
> Base clothing has never heard of it.



Some of them have heard of it ...  

It is being pushed down (that's how initial issue of new kit works as I have already said ...)

But, NO ONE is going to be issued it until it is on base in sufficient qtys to issue to all deploying pers for upcoming TF etc. 

I'll tell you what --- as the clothing stores Sgt --- if I sent a LogRep up the CoC stating that I had recd 10 sets of cadpat raingear (out of 800 sets reqd to kit the "top priority Unit on base") it would take approx 4.2 seconds for every Unit on Base to "hear about it." Within 15 minutes, I'd have 250 people at my counter asking for it and bitching when my staff had to tell them "no."

RELAX ... you'll get your raingear when it has been recd in appropriate qtys to kit ALL pers who fall into that top priority spot. Until then, you won't.

And, when it is recd in the proper qtys to kit that first Unit -- then you'll hear about it via your CoC, most probably via O Gp during which you'll also rec timings/dates for initial issue. You'll all get it over a pre-arranged date(s) in a Unit bulk issue during which clothing stores will be kitting out hundreds of pers into this item -- not just you. Simply put, Clothing does not have time to answer 800 queries from 800 individuals about "I 'heard' it's here ... when am I getting mine and why not?" Your CoC WILL give you the details on your items when your CoC is advised by Clothing that total qtys have been recd and makes contact with them to effect the switch out from the old gear. Nominal rolls would have to be sent by your Unit etc so that clothing could ensure that the pers they are issuing to actually ARE a part of that "top priority" Unit such as 1 RCR etc who is being issued. It is not a simple matter of individuals wandering themselves over to clothing and getting theirs exchanged as you seem to think it is.

OH and BTW, even when something is "pushed down" for you to get it as the priority Unit (ie your Unit was told that it would be pushed to your supporting clothing stores for issue to you as the priority Unit) ... it still needs to come into the system and the items (stock) pushed to clothing stores. PUSHED means that your clothing stores can NOT demand it in to the base to kit you --- CTS/NDHQ will PUSH the stock to the base to effect the issue to you when the qtys are recd ... and at a date of CTS/NDHQs choosing. It has nothing to do with clothing stores, rather when it is "pushed to them by centre", they'll advise the CoC of details as outlined above.


----------



## mover1 (19 Mar 2008)

As I crawl out of my cave and roar an old dinosaur roar.  :warstory:

This is all reminiscent of when the current issue rain gear came on line.  We were used to that old nylon crap or buying our own American Rain Gear. When were were finally issued it, we thought it was light years ahead of what the issue stuff was. Supply was slow on getting it out too until sufficient stock came in.  Everyone was anxious to get it. We were like kids at Christmas. Everyone is so anxious to get the new stuff even though it's really no better. than the old stuff In fact the older stuff is better in someway's (Can't wait for "the new rain gear is garbage" threat to start up).


I was wearing the AF rain gear since early on. I was one of the lucky firsts to get it and now six years on I still have my original. I was lucky enough to keep it on my posting to Shilo but was told by my chief not to wear it. "
The reason was simple, as a Tfc Tech working in supply, the Chief didn't want me wearing it because the first time someone saw me in Canex, (like "AngelVern" had mentioned,) word would have spread like wild fire and there would have been 800 phone calls asking when the new rain gear was being issued. 

Everyone be patient when you get it you get it. 
Its only rain gear, it keeps you dry just as well as the other stuff. Then once its issued and the thread that I mentioned above gets started, I will have to ask the mods to merge these two topics or at least have this one permanently linked so we can compare the expectations of this "wonder kit" to the realities of life.

 ;D


----------



## TN2IC (19 Mar 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> NO!! I'm glad you are gone from Gagetown because then I'd have had to put "3" in there earlier after dealing with all your custom made kit.
> 
> Yikes.



Yeah I had slim down these days. But I still got a nice gucci set of Coveralls... thanks Vern.  Makes the troops jealous.. ;D


----------



## jaawod (28 Mar 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Some of them have heard of it ...
> 
> It is being pushed down (that's how initial issue of new kit works as I have already said ...)
> 
> But, NO ONE is going to be issued it until it is on base in sufficient qtys to issue to all deploying pers for upcoming TF etc.



While I understand the train of thought behind the deploying personel getting new kit first, they are just going to get the arid pattern rain gear when they get there anyway.   Should the temperate pattern not go to the people staying here who will be actually using it?


----------



## X-mo-1979 (28 Mar 2008)

jaawod said:
			
		

> While I understand the train of thought behind the deploying personel getting new kit first, they are just going to get the arid pattern rain gear when they get there anyway.   Should the temperate pattern not go to the people staying here who will be actually using it?



Wouldnt mind using it in Wainwright/Europe.Still have 12 weeks of training we wouldnt mind using it for.


----------



## PuckChaser (28 Mar 2008)

For those of us in Kingston, Clothing had "New Raingear (Army) Feb 2009" on the magic whiteboard of shortages as of yesterday.... hopefully that's field units first, so I won't see RMC students with it before me!  ;D


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## TN2IC (29 Mar 2008)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> For those of us in Kingston, Clothing had "New Raingear (Army) Feb 2009" on the magic whiteboard of shortages as of yesterday.... hopefully that's field units first, so I won't see RMC students with it before me!  ;D



*Silly Hat Mood*
Sad part, we are getting new recurits from CFSAL with them issued to them. It's really don't matter nowadays.. if I blow up due to me operating the Refueler without my static free jacket.. well.. I"ll have a nice crispy tan.  ;D


----------



## armyvern (29 Mar 2008)

SuperSlug said:
			
		

> For those of us in Kingston, Clothing had "New Raingear (Army) Feb 2009" on the magic whiteboard of shortages as of yesterday.... hopefully that's field units first, so I won't see RMC students with it before me!  ;D



Ohhh an EDD of Feb 09 ... lots of time for change yet!! On the bus ... off the bus ...  >

Seriously, that is a good sign though; at least you know CTS remember that Kingston exists.  ;D


----------



## PuckChaser (29 Mar 2008)

I know, maybe someone went to Ottawa with a big powerpoint presentation on how to drive to Kingston with Google Earth.

They even had the new rucksack listed there, with what units get it first. The sky is falling!!!  :crybaby:


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## Good2Golf (29 Mar 2008)

Sgt  Schultz said:
			
		

> *Silly Hat Mood*
> Sad part, we are getting new recurits from CFSAL with them issued to them. It's really don't matter nowadays.. if I blow up due to me operating the Refueler without my static free jacket.. well.. I"ll have a nice crispy tan.  ;D



Of course, doing the prescribed 3-point bonding would keep you safe even if you were wearing nuclear-powered fleece...


----------



## danchapps (29 Mar 2008)

Can't forget the timeless "duck and cover". 50+ years and it still protects against nuclear fallout.


----------



## Ecco (4 Apr 2008)

After a request of extension of 15 days (by industry) from 30 to 45, the tendering process on merx.ca for the Army Cadpat raingear closed today.  

We will see how good are the bids so the contract can be awarded.


----------



## armyvern (5 Apr 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> After a request of extension of 15 days (by industry) from 30 to 45, the tendering process on merx.ca for the Army Cadpat raingear closed today.
> 
> We will see how good are the bids so the contract can be awarded.



Progress. A wee bit closer to reality now then.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (17 Apr 2008)

I got my new rain gear today at base clothing in Petawawa.

I like the old stuff better.(jovial of course)

So yes virginia there is raingear for battle group people.


----------



## danchapps (17 Apr 2008)

X-Mo, can you in fact fit a pack of smokes in the arm pockets as Shultz was pondering about? I never did get to try to stick a pack in there.


----------



## Jarnhamar (18 Apr 2008)

I just got mine today too.
Haven't tested it out yet (obviously) but it seems pretty awesome to me. It fits very well and feels good. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Despite having probably gone through hundreds ( thousands?) of sets of rainsuits the supply techs were polite professional and helpful.


----------



## Lumber (18 Apr 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> ...hopefully that's field units first, so I won't see *RMC* students with it before me!  ;D



Too late my friend. Far too late...


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Too late my friend. Far too late...



Which is perfectly acceptable given certain circumstances. 

Just as it was for the ICE. They have to wear _something_ rather than _nothing_ -- so if they happened to have been OJTd or tasked to a Unit that was already converted ... good for them. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Recruits are wearing it in Saint Jean -- they too have to wear _something_. Or should we just let them go through with no rain gear and pray that the heavens don't open up on them?


----------



## X-mo-1979 (18 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Recruits are wearing it in Saint Jean -- they too have to wear _something_. Or should we just let them go through with no rain gear and pray that the heavens don't open up on them?



Sounds like a winter DP1 I taught,where our students couldnt get parka's,windpants,belaclava's,mucklucks due to everything being op restricted for 2 RCR.


----------



## PMedMoe (18 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Recruits are wearing it in Saint Jean -- they too have to wear _something_. Or should we just let them go through with no rain gear and pray that the heavens don't open up on them?



When I was in A'stan, we had to hand in our Arid rain gear to be issued to the incoming Roto , leaving us with nothing.  Thankfully, it didn't rain the last few weeks I was there.   :


----------



## RCR Grunt (18 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Recruits are wearing it in Saint Jean -- they too have to wear _something_. Or should we just let them go through with no rain gear and pray that the heavens don't open up on them?



A little rain never hurt anybody.  They aren't made of sugar, they won't melt.  Besides, if it ain't rainin', it ain't trainin'.


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

RCR Grunt said:
			
		

> A little rain never hurt anybody.  They aren't made of sugar, they won't melt.  Besides, if it ain't rainin', it ain't trainin'.



So, you'll have no issues then if we take away your own rain gear then, and never replace it.


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> When I was in A'stan, we had to hand in our Arid rain gear to be issued to the incoming Roto , leaving us with nothing.  Thankfully, it didn't rain the last few weeks I was there.   :



Well, thankfully, the chances of it raining where you were, were a little less than they are in Saint Jean eh?


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Sounds like a winter DP1 I taught,where our students couldnt get parka's,windpants,belaclava's,mucklucks due to everything being op restricted for 2 RCR.



Yeah -- the ICE was. Some of us worked very hard to circumvent the system and get those guys into the OD gortex though. You should have seen the nastygrams we got for our actions on that from the place that put the Ops Restrictions on the gear in the first place.  

Many clothing stores pulled some pretty "outside of box" stuff to get whatever we could find out to trainees who needed stuff right accross the nation during that period.


----------



## MG34 (18 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, thankfully, the chances of it raining where you were, were a little less than they are in Saint Jean eh?



Depends on the time of year doesn't it, and some flopper in St Jean only has to move from building to building if at all.


----------



## RCR Grunt (18 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> So, you'll have no issues then if we take away your own rain gear then, and never replace it.



I don't have any rain gear for you to take away, so it would be no change for me.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (18 Apr 2008)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Depends on the time of year doesn't it, and some flopper in St Jean only has to move from building to building if at all.



Except for all the time spent on the range, etc in Farnham


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## Jarnhamar (18 Apr 2008)

Armyvern, I understand the mindset that a soldier needs something and why someone might see it as easier to give new recruits the brand new gear instead of issuing them old stuff just to turn around to issue them new stuff.  Still in this case instead of what's easier I think the best new equipment should be given to the guys and girls flying over on operations.


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Armyvern, I understand the mindset that a soldier needs something and why someone might see it as easier to give new recruits the brand new gear instead of issuing them old stuff just to turn around to issue them new stuff.  Still in this case instead of what's easier I think the best new equipment should be given to the guys and girls flying over on operations.



Did you miss my "_nothing_" in that original post? There simply is NO old raingear to issue them. It really is that simple.

And, BTW, I've already stated that the deploying TF WAS the priority, but all those troops who already have old raingear and who are NOT on the upcoming TF --- aren't taking priority over people with _nothing_. I really don't think that's too hard a concept to understand. If the recruits don't get the new stuff --- they have _nothing_. Other troops, at least, have _something_. And, they will *all* get it eventually.


----------



## geo (18 Apr 2008)

Methinks it's just a case of the old timers getting upset because the newbies are getting the new stuff.
If the oldtimers had their way, they would turn in their old scrap for the new gear... thereby leaving old gear for the newbies...

Unfortunately... it don't work that way.

Breathe 2-3


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Unfortunately... it don't work that way.



It isn't_ this _ time.


----------



## geo (18 Apr 2008)

nor should it...


----------



## Franko (18 Apr 2008)

Well got mine yesterday and it looks like a bit of an improvement over the old set.

Hopefully will breath and not soak you from the inside out like the last style.

Regards


----------



## Jarnhamar (18 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Did you miss my "_nothing_" in that original post? There simply is NO old raingear to issue them. It really is that simple.
> 
> And, BTW, I've already stated that the deploying TF WAS the priority, but all those troops who already have old raingear and who are NOT on the upcoming TF --- aren't taking priority over people with _nothing_. I really don't think that's too hard a concept to understand. If the recruits don't get the new stuff --- they have _nothing_. Other troops, at least, have _something_. And, they will *all* get it eventually.



No rain gear at all? Crazy.
I do agree that non TF types should not get priority over people with nothing. 
Besides your smrter than me simple concepts to you are latin to me  

Geo do I qualfiy as an old timer??


----------



## armyvern (18 Apr 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> No rain gear at all? Crazy.
> I do agree that non TF types should not get priority over people with nothing.
> Besides your smrter than me simple concepts to you are latin to me
> *
> Geo do I qualfiy as an old timer??*



Sure you qualify.  ;D

They weren't getting any of the "old stuff" brought into the system from contractors while the "new stuff" was also incoming. Increased intake in students at Saint Jean was greater numbers than the numbers of serviceable "old stuff" being returned into the system by releasing personnel.


----------



## brihard (18 Apr 2008)

Well, we got ours right in the nick of time- the week before we go to Rainwright Wainwright. I'm glad they were on the ball about that.

It actually looks like quite a decent jacket and is big enough to layer easily over the fleece. I'm sure I'll have plenty of opportunity over the coming month to see if I like it or not.  ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar (18 Apr 2008)

How will this work with the reserves?

If we don't have any of the old stuff left for the reserves to restock their QM with does that mean new recruits in the reserves  will be issued the new rain gear?


----------



## brihard (18 Apr 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> How will this work with the reserves?
> 
> If we don't have any of the old stuff left for the reserves to restock their QM with does that mean new recruits in the reserves  will be issued the new rain gear?



Hah. It'll be the webbing -> Tacvest all over again. I joined shortly before the conversion, and I remember a few older guys having conniption fits when the new intakes started getting issued Tacvests before my regiment at the time had gotten its bulk issue.


----------



## geo (18 Apr 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Geo do I qualfiy as an old timer??


Are you kidding... You don't even have your 1st CD - let alone one or two rosettes   :warstory:


----------



## 421 EME (10 Aug 2008)

OK lets bring this topic back to life. Is there any word yet when the first line unit are going to get the new CADPAT raingear???


----------



## Ecco (10 Aug 2008)

No contract awarded yet.  So any info about that would be pure speculation.


----------



## HItorMiss (10 Aug 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> No contract awarded yet.  So any info about that would be pure speculation.



Umm wrong, it's been issued to the next roto leaving for tour. The CTS website wis wrong. No it's not general scale of issue but it will soon be .


----------



## PMedMoe (10 Aug 2008)

Issue to personnel at CFB Kingston is (tentatively) scheduled for Feb '09.


----------



## Big Foot (10 Aug 2008)

The new raingear is pretty much the norm at CFB Shilo now. I actually got issued a set, too. In my mind, a big step up over the old stuff.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (10 Aug 2008)

We have had it for some time in Shilo.  As far as A Stan is concerned those members should be getting the Arid version sometime after arrival. At least that is how it was in the second half of 2006.


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## HItorMiss (10 Aug 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> As far as A Stan is concerned those members should be getting the Arid version sometime after arrival. At least that is how it was in the second half of 2006.



They are issued the temperate version here then then arid version in theater..why I hve no idea but so goes the supply system


----------



## 421 EME (10 Aug 2008)

OK, so some units have gotten there issue and units going to the A'stan are getting are getting them and there is some sort of schedule out there, so if someone knows what the schedule is can they post it for all to see.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (10 Aug 2008)

Your CoC should be able to provide you with that.  Either that or go to clothing stores.


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## Ecco (10 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Umm wrong, it's been issued to the next roto leaving for tour. The CTS website wis wrong. No it's not general scale of issue but it will soon be .



The fact that some people receive the TW raingear does not imply that the CTS contract has been awarded.  Your assumption is wrong and the websitre is right.

The TW raingear for the Land Forces is being procured in small batches by the National Procurement side of NDHQ, with money from the Operations Budget (the account for Afghanistan Ops).  It is issued to TF pers during their ramp-up training so they can have access to the equivalent of what they will get in theater (in AR), and so that they have the best kit available for training.

The CTS raingear contract that will outfit the 70 000 CF pers conducting Land Ops is still pending.  The bid evaluation has been completed (some time ago) and the file is back at PWGSC, who are busily adding their value.  As soon as the contract is awarded, the news will be on Army News, the manufacturer will be gloating on their website, etc...  And only then will it be possible to plan a distribution schedule.  In the meantime, the system will provide for TF ramping-up, so the first priority pers have the kit despite the bureaucratic challenges.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (10 Aug 2008)

Not sure who is right or wrong but I know many none-TF people that get it and it would seem although I haven't done a head count, that most people on this base (Shilo) have it.  It is my understanding we are sharing the new design with the air force so that there is one standard between the two elements as well.  Since I don't work at supply I don't know what the deal is.  Perhaps its that they don't have any old stuff to issue out anymore so everyone that needs it gets the new stuff regardless.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (11 Aug 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Not sure who is right or wrong but I know many none-TF people that get it and it would seem although I haven't done a head count, that most people on this base (Shilo) have it.  *It is my understanding we are sharing the new design with the air force so that there is one standard between the two elements as well*.  Since I don't work at supply I don't know what the deal is.  Perhaps its that they don't have any old stuff to issue out anymore so everyone that needs it gets the new stuff regardless.



Yes, thats true.  The Army looked at the 2-in-1 suit the AF got out of CEMS, modified it, and it is now the CCR that is on the CTS site...both the AF and Army will get the same piece of kit.


----------



## HItorMiss (11 Aug 2008)

Ecco

If the contract hasn't been awarded then perhaps you can tell those people not on TF that their rain gear is a figmant of their imagination.... Cause I am pretty sure that my rai but you n gear exist, but you know I could be wrong. If your saying it isn't well hey who am I to know what is real and what isn't


----------



## aesop081 (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Ecco
> 
> If the contract hasn't been awarded then perhaps you can tell those people not on TF that their rain gear is a figmant of their imagination.... Cause I am pretty sure that my rai but you n gear exist, but you know I could be wrong. If your saying it isn't well hey who am I to know what is real and what isn't



Read his post again........


----------



## Eye In The Sky (11 Aug 2008)

Sounds like he is saying there is an 'interim' raingear being issued, much like the GP combat boot is being issued until the CTS project gets the TCB out to the troops...


----------



## HItorMiss (11 Aug 2008)

CDN

I did, I am not TF nor are some of the guys I know who have the rain gear...Quag is not TF and he has the rain gear, in fact the majority of his base from his observation has the rain gear.  Now I am not precurment expert however I know when something is in production on more then just a trial/TF issue run. Now I know I am a bit of a special case reff my rain gear but the guys I am on course with right now are not and they have it and are not TF at all.


----------



## aesop081 (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Now I am not precurment expert however



Neither am i but i've been at this long enough to know that sometimes government departments use extra budgets ( read task specific) in strange ,unintended ways.


----------



## HItorMiss (11 Aug 2008)

I cannot forsee how the heck a department got the funds to out fit so many non essential pers with rain ear, TF issue absolutely, Joe Blow Patricia at CFB Shilo or Cpl Bloggins clerk CFB Shilo seems a bit excessive in terms of "extra" cash just being handed out.


----------



## aesop081 (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> I cannot forsee how the heck a department got the funds to out fit so many non essential pers with rain ear, TF issue absolutely, Joe Blow Patricia at CFB Shilo or Cpl Bloggins clerk CFB Shilo seems a bit excessive in terms of "extra" cash just being handed out.



Hey, you win dude. My gortex CADPAT rain gear is in my closet still in the original plastic bag it was issued to me in 3 years ago. This isnt an issue that keeps me up at night.


----------



## HItorMiss (11 Aug 2008)

It's not a win type situtation for me, it's more of a confusion as to what is what, if it's not issue yet thn how are people getting it?  If it is issue then the CTS website ref the rain gear is again wrong or more so out of date.


----------



## aesop081 (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> It's not a win type situtation for me, it's more of a confusion as to what is what, if it's not issue yet thn how are people getting it?  If it is issue then the CTS website ref the rain gear is again wrong or more so out of date.



Who said that what people are getting now is the CTS / CCR rain gear ?


----------



## HItorMiss (11 Aug 2008)

There is the AF rain gear in Gortex and then there is the Army issue Rain gear in Gortex, similar but a few design . Perhaps the issue isn't who is getting it it's who is getting which version?


----------



## aesop081 (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> There is the AF rain gear in Gortex and then there is the Army issue Rain gear in Gortex, similar but a few design . Perhaps the issue isn't who is getting it it's who is getting which version?



and soon there will be only one version........


----------



## Eye In The Sky (11 Aug 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Not sure who is right or wrong but I know many none-TF people that get it and it would seem although I haven't done a head count, that most people on this base (Shilo) have it.  It is my understanding we are sharing the new design with the air force so that there is one standard between the two elements as well.  Since I don't work at supply I don't know what the deal is.  Perhaps its that they don't have any old stuff to issue out anymore so everyone that needs it gets the new stuff regardless.



I haven't seen what kit you have but..maybe the AF handed over a bunch of their CADPAT raingear to the Army until the CTS project gets the new CCR pumped out.

I know a little over a year ago, the platoons were getting it at CFLRS...I saw a whole friggin crse of BMQs go marching by with it on.  Not the ICE combat jacket either, this was the AF issue CADPAT rain jacket.

If your jackets have the drop-seat style rear, the extended piece like a cycling jacket has, then it is not the original AF issued kit.  (I've seen a few of the original issued AF jackets; they had the rank 'slip-ons' on epilauets on the shoulders...weird looking now)


----------



## HItorMiss (11 Aug 2008)

I can confirm for a fact that the AF issue rain gear is issue at CFLRS...Don't ask my thoughts on that I ranted enough last year LOL


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (11 Aug 2008)

Also the AF jacket's (original) don't have the pit vents.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (11 Aug 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Also the AF jacket's (original) don't have the pit vents.



From the CTS site:

Additional design features that were added to the original  “2 in 1” jacket  to create the converged design include:  ( any of the features with a *** beside them, I have on my AF issued CADPAT rainjacket)

-Elongating the back to cover buttocks 
-Vents incorporated into the front and back yokes with the addition of fastener tape to conceal the reflective tabs when not in use ***
-Waist and hem drawcords for a more custom fit and wind protection ***
-Under arm vents with waterproof zippers 
-The addition of sleeve pockets for note pads and a PRR (Personal Role Radio) with access inside of the pocket for the ear piece cable 
-Cuffs with adjustable tape fastener tabs ***
-Inner storm pockets for notepads, pens 
-Neck protector flap 
-Front storm flap for wind protection ***
-Retainer straps inside the cargo pockets to secure ear defenders; gloves ***
-Reinforced elbows with a durable high tenacity nylon material backed with a polyurethane coating   
-Bottom hem pull cord secured to a front tab to prevent jacket from billowing when parachuting 
-Removable hood ***
-Fastener tape for a name tag and a rank tab 
Covered side zipped vents with 2 way zippers ***

And for the pants...

-Covered side zipped vents with a gusset for easier donning and doffing over Footwear 
-Adjustable compression tabs at the ankle for a more custom fit for wind and rain protection 
-Reinforced knees constructed with a durable high tenacity nylon material backed with a polyurethane coating   
-Reflective tabs are concealed with fastener tape under the knee area 
-zipped pass-through pocket openings on the front of the trousers


----------



## danchapps (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> I can confirm for a fact that the AF issue rain gear is issue at CFLRS...Don't ask my thoughts on that I ranted enough last year LOL



Don't worry, the non AF types that have the AF rain gear at CFLRS get it taken away from them. Yes they are bewildered when it happens (I sure was).  Why are people getting it in Shilo? I don't know, but it happens. Could be kit was shipped to the wrong place. Could be there was no kit left in the green style. Who know, mysterious things happen in the land of supply. Sometimes things happen for good, sometimes for the worse. I think there are some posts earlier on in this thread that will shed light on this situation.


----------



## Franko (11 Aug 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> -The addition of sleeve pockets for note pads and a PRR (Personal Role Radio) with access inside of the pocket for the ear piece cable



The only complaint I have with the jacket so far. 

They are too small for the PRR or any FMP and are at a 90 degree angle....extremely hard to get anything in or out of them if your wearing plates.

Could also use some sort of marker/ pen holder on the outside for commanders.

Regards


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (11 Aug 2008)

I first one had all the gortex tape that covers the seam come up on all the edges of every piece of tape on the jacket.  Bad clue I am guessing.  And that was with bare minimum use.  Had that one issued as a 00010, changed to Ammo tech and had no problem exchanging it.  Perhaps its because they have no green garbage bags to issue.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (11 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> There is the AF rain gear in Gortex and then there is the Army issue Rain gear in Gortex, similar but a few design . Perhaps the issue isn't who is getting it it's who is getting which version?



Material – The rainsuit is made from 100 % Nylon material laminated to a Water, Moisture Vapour Permeable (WMVP) membrane that is incorporated with anti static properties. The jacket is lined with a 100% polyester mesh material.

Its not trademarked Gortex, per say.


----------



## George Wallace (11 Aug 2008)

I have yet to find any of the CF improvements to Rain Gear to be of any use to the Cbt Arms, unless they are standing around in the rain with their thumbs up their ______.  Anyone who has done any work in a Rain Suit, soon discards it, as you might as well be working in a Sauna, as in the rain.  

For AFV Drivers, a good Rubberized Rain Suit was always good for keeping the mud and dust off while driving hatches up, but keep the sweat in when doing heavy track maint.  

So I find it amusing to read all these posts by Kit Sluts looking for the latest in Gucci Kit.  How long before yet another Rain Suit comes out that is the "Cat's Ass" and everyone will be crying for it?


----------



## geo (11 Aug 2008)

Good point George
I only use my rainsuit (od style) to shuffle from the car to the office to the car & to home....
Hmm... come to think of it, I found the rainsuit jackets handy to keep me warm wet VS cold wet while on my 6B in Gagetown.... but that's another story I guess


----------



## Matt_Fisher (11 Aug 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Material – The rainsuit is made from 100 % Nylon material laminated to a Water, Moisture Vapour Permeable (WMVP) membrane that is incorporated with anti static properties. The jacket is lined with a 100% polyester mesh material.
> 
> Its not trademarked Gortex, per say.



The material used for the waterproof/breathable 'Moisture Vapour Permeable' (MVP) layer/membrane for both the Air Force Rainsuit (jacket & trousers) and the 'Converged Rainsuit (jacket & trousers) is not Gore-Tex, or any sort of 'generic' PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene), but rather is a porous polyurethane (PU) coating done by a company called Stedfast (www.stedfast.com).  

The pros of using a PU vs. a PTFE fabric is that PU has much higher durability in terms of POL/DEET contamination resistance (the pores being blocked/saturated) than a PTFE fabric.  The cons of using a PU vs. a PTFE fabric is that PU's breathability (ability to pass moisture vapour) is significantly lower than PTFE, meaning you're more likely to get wet/clammy from a buildup of perspiration condenstation when wearing a PU garment.  Also, PU fabrics tend to be cheaper to laminate/coat than PTFE, which the government also weighs its consideration upon.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (11 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I have yet to find any of the CF improvements to Rain Gear to be of any use to the Cbt Arms, unless they are standing around in the rain with their thumbs up their ______.  Anyone who has done any work in a Rain Suit, soon discards it, as you might as well be working in a Sauna, as in the rain.
> 
> For AFV Drivers, a good Rubberized Rain Suit was always good for keeping the mud and dust off while driving hatches up, but keep the sweat in when doing heavy track maint.
> 
> So I find it amusing to read all these posts by Kit Sluts looking for the latest in Gucci Kit.  How long before yet another Rain Suit comes out that is the "Cat's ***" and everyone will be crying for it?



Those points are valid about doing maint and hatches up George but...there are also times when a good rainsuit is worth its weight in gold. On sentry (especially late fall/early spring), on the ranges, after the OP is established and you are into 'routine', etc, to name a few.  I know I used to use my old American pattern one with the combat jacket liner in it ALOT.  Its a nice option when the combat jacket is too heavy as well, to throw a fleece on or LWTU shirt with the jacket over it.  There are the obvious times that ended up with you soaked in your own sweat, much like you will with the new stuff as well.

Like all raingear, or any gear, cold weather gear included, there are times when it is useful and times when it isn't.  I can think of more than a few times I would have loved to have the stuff I have now, but I can't comment on the usefulness of this kit to the army folks.


----------



## geo (11 Aug 2008)

> There are the obvious times that ended up with you soaked in your own sweat, much like you will with the new stuff as well.


Precisely.... warm wet VS cold wet  :warstory:


----------



## Good2Golf (11 Aug 2008)

EITS, mine had the pit-zips, and that is how I ran it for the most part.  I agree with George, that there are times where even something like a simple poncho to keep mass-wet off is great (pretty much like a 2-in-1 with the pit zips fully open, vice something confining, no matter how "breathable."

Cheers,
G2G


----------



## daftandbarmy (12 Aug 2008)

It's great that we've finally got it, but it's too bad that it weighs a ton and takes up more space in a ruck than 3 liners of link. I've got triple layer civvy Gore-tex gear that is less than 1/2 the weight and bulk and still does a great job keeping me dry. I guess I'll be hanging onto that stealth suit after all...


----------



## mover1 (14 Aug 2008)

Now we get to hear how crappy this stuff is that everyone has been so anxious to get. 
It a far cry from the nylon rain gear of the 70's/80's andit does the job. Sorry to hear is so bulky and non breathable. 
I like it. It makes a good intermediate jacket. Its a great rain jacket (for my uses) and it looks very professional.


----------



## TN2IC (18 Aug 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Material – The rainsuit is made from 100 % Nylon material laminated to a Water, Moisture Vapour Permeable (WMVP) membrane that is incorporated with anti static properties. The jacket is lined with a 100% polyester mesh material.



Still some how it's okay for me to handle JP stuff with my old jacket... nice tan I tell you.  ;D


----------



## TN2IC (5 Dec 2008)

CEMS Site Reference Site



> Q14:     Who is entitled to receive CEMS articles of clothing?
> 
> A14:    The CEMS project will provide operational clothing to all regular and reserve personnel wearing the Air Force Distinctive Environmental Uniform (DEU) throughout the CF. CEMS will also provide clothing to the Army and Navy personnel serving at Air Force Wings. Personnel who have already received a given article of clothing will only be entitled to a second issue if authorised under the applicable Scale of Issue (D01-317 i.e. Flight line personnel).




So I work for a Wing, but I"m Army. So I"m guessing it now okay for me to get this rain jacket? Does it sound right before I make the "BIG STEP" at supply?


----------



## BinRat55 (6 Dec 2008)

Mr Plow said:
			
		

> CEMS Site Reference Site
> 
> 
> So I work for a Wing, but I"m Army. So I"m guessing it now okay for me to get this rain jacket? Does it sound right before I make the "BIG STEP" at supply?



Yes - as "land element" on an Air base, we are entitled to the CEMS raingear. You do, however, have to return it when you leave.


----------



## TN2IC (6 Dec 2008)

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Yes - as "land element" on an Air base, we are entitled to the CEMS raingear. You do, however, have to return it when you leave.



Ah that's no problem. I was more thinking of safety on the airfield more then "just a cool cadpat jacket". I like to be seen, and not blown up while refueling.  ;D

See what researching these boards can do to you? Learn something new each time.

Regards,
Mr Plow


----------



## geo (6 Dec 2008)

Mr Plow said:
			
		

> CEMS Site Reference Site
> 
> 
> So I work for a Wing, but I"m Army. So I"m guessing it now okay for me to get this rain jacket? Does it sound right before I make the "BIG STEP" at supply?


As things stand, the new Army rainsuit is made to be compatible with Airforce specifications.
Once the airforce has exhausted it's inventory of AF specific rainsuits, it intends to use the army rainsuit
Sooo... I would venture to say that while you are on an AF base, you'll get one of theirs & they will let you keep it when you leave... thereby reducing their inventory by "1".
Reflective strips are present on both.... they just fold away... so you can see & be seen - when you need it


----------



## armyvern (6 Dec 2008)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> The material used for the waterproof/breathable 'Moisture Vapour Permeable' (MVP) layer/membrane for both the Air Force Rainsuit (jacket & trousers) and the 'Converged Rainsuit (jacket & trousers) is not Gore-Tex, or any sort of 'generic' PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene), but rather is a porous polyurethane (PU) coating done by a company called Stedfast (www.stedfast.com).
> 
> The pros of using a PU vs. a PTFE fabric is that PU has much higher durability in terms of POL/DEET contamination resistance (the pores being blocked/saturated) than a PTFE fabric.  The cons of using a PU vs. a PTFE fabric is that PU's breathability (ability to pass moisture vapour) is significantly lower than PTFE, meaning you're more likely to get wet/clammy from a buildup of perspiration condenstation when wearing a PU garment.  Also, PU fabrics tend to be cheaper to laminate/coat than PTFE, which the government also weighs its consideration upon.



LOL. I'm just surfing through here after a long absence - and notice your comments about the POL - That makes me decide to pull up the Scale of Entitlement for POL Handlers to see what they're entitled to these days because it's been a very long time since I've looked at it. Seems to me that they have to turn in their cadpat gortex and go back to the old average green kit ... (Sup Techs - ready your recall messages!!  >) because that's all they're entitled to according to their scale. Well, OD stuff and those cbt overboots that no longer fit over the boots we're issued.  :

I've deleted the scale OPIs name & number from the scale that I'm attaching below, but it's not been updated since 2006 - go figure eh? And, 2006 was the last scale mod date ... which means they took something off the scale of entitement because all the items still left on the scale "as entitled" show they last changed in 2005 - ergo it was an item that was removed from entitlment in '06.


----------



## danchapps (6 Dec 2008)

Vern,

Could you clarify the definition of POL handlers? Is that strictly for those pumping fuel, or would that also include those working in a POL compound such as myself and my colleagues here in Edmonton? I haven't gone in to check scales in so long I almost forgot.


----------



## armyvern (6 Dec 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> Vern,
> 
> Could you clarify the definition of POL handlers? Is that strictly for those pumping fuel, or would that also include those working in a POL compound such as myself and my colleagues here in Edmonton? I haven't gone in to check scales in so long I almost forgot.



POL Handlers. Loaders, Refuellers, those doing bulk loading/uploading. FARS etc. If you're working in the POL section and/or are handling POL on a daily basis or constant basis as the main function of your job, then you're POL Handling.

Refuelling your own truck once a week doesn't a POL Handler make, rather the "handling" task would be one of your daily and ongoing functions.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2008)

Thread hijack....

Vern did you happen to have seen my rucksac down in clothing  ;D Seems they shipped them back since I wasn't here for the issue.  

Now back to you regularly scheduled thread.


----------



## armyvern (6 Dec 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Thread hijack....
> 
> Vern did you happen to have seen my rucksac down in clothing  ;D Seems they shipped them back since I wasn't here for the issue.
> 
> Now back to you regularly scheduled thread.



Send an email to Moe.

I told her who you were and that you'd come looking to have it shipped back to Nfld. She knows you're the one who kept being sent to/returned from Gagetown this fall that I talked to her about. She figured you'd show up your last trip here to pick it up ... and had it waiting for you.


----------



## danchapps (6 Dec 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> POL Handlers. Loaders, Refuellers, those doing bulk loading/uploading. FARS etc. If you're working in the POL section and/or are handling POL on a daily basis or constant basis as the main function of your job, then you're POL Handling.



Thanks Vern, I'm going to send the scale to work so I can show the others and get some more kit for the compound.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Send an email to Moe.
> 
> I told her who you were and that you'd come looking to have it shipped back to Nfld. She knows you're the one who kept being sent to/returned from Gagetown this fall that I talked to her about. She figured you'd show up your last trip here to pick it up ... and had it waiting for you.



Yeah had no down time to go over to Clothing to get it.


----------



## armyvern (6 Dec 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Yeah had no down time to go over to Clothing to get it.



Well, it is exactly times like these then that it sucks that we Suppies don't "deliver" ...

 >


----------



## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, it is exactly times like these then that it sucks that we Suppies don't "deliver" ...
> 
> >



Don't know if I could afford the delivery charge  >


----------



## TN2IC (6 Dec 2008)

Why don't you send it via Base TN? I"m sure there's a run from Gagetown to the Rock with a 5 ton before. Just give me a few days to check my sources.


----------



## armyvern (6 Dec 2008)

Mr Plow said:
			
		

> Why don't you send it via Base TN? I"m sure there's a run from Gagetown to the Rock with a 5 ton before. Just give me a few days to check my sources.



Uhm, yes there's a run ... when the truck is full.

Could be months. Usually weeks.

Besides, it's much cheaper to send his ruck via civ mail then it is to send a mil resource truck and driver up there carrying just it. Imagine the claim, the fuel costs, the ferry costs, the time (although I'm quite sure some of those Gagetown truckers I know would absolutey love the jammy ...)


----------



## Ecco (8 Dec 2008)

Exclusive news:

In the next couple of days, there should be a media announcement that the Army Clothe The Soldier Converged CADPAT Rainsuit contract has been awarded.  

This is surprisingly good, considering that because of the total amount of the contract, Treasury Board had to approve the paperwork.  The latest government "vacation"  means that Treasury Board does not meet until the end of January.

There was more time than usual between bid evaluation and contract award for the exact same reason: Treasury Board does not convene during election time.
  
I know the question will now be:  "When will I receive my rainsuit?"...  It is too early to tell, but we should know soon.  Big quantities will be coming in 2009.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> Exclusive news:
> 
> In the next couple of days, there should be a media announcement that the Army Clothe The Soldier Converged CADPAT Rainsuit contract has been awarded.



Funny I thought that it was already.


----------



## BinRat55 (8 Dec 2008)

Check this out:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/PDF/Conv_Rainsuit_e.pdf


----------



## Nfld Sapper (8 Dec 2008)

That's what I thought Bin


----------



## McG (8 Dec 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Funny I thought that it was already.


You were wrong:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/22851/post-742523.html#msg742523


----------



## PuckChaser (8 Dec 2008)

Wonder if that'll delay CFB Kingston getting our's sometime in January.... CTS must have a time machine, because Kingston is usually a year or so behind the CMBGs for new kit.  :


----------



## OldSolduer (9 Dec 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Wonder if that'll delay CFB Kingston getting our's sometime in January.... CTS must have a time machine, because Kingston is usually a year or so behind the CMBGs for new kit.  :



Try being in a PRes unit. the time machine stopped for the PRes I think!!

It's very frustrating at times. The PRes soldier often has to wait for years for something the Reg Force have already. 
I understand the procurement system, and for the most part agree with it. That being said, it's far too slow and too much red tape.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (9 Dec 2008)

I'm a Reg force guy in a PRes unit.. I wonder how that'll work> I imagine I will get my stuff at the same time as my PRes brethren.  Makes sense.

And correct me if I am wrong reading the pamphlet about the new raingear, are we supposed to remove the reflective tabs as soon as we get it?  

/yeah, I'm a smarta$$...


----------



## geo (9 Dec 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> And correct me if I am wrong reading the pamphlet about the new raingear, are we supposed to remove the reflective tabs as soon as we get it?
> /yeah, I'm a smarta$$...


All depends if you usually follow instructions
Do you tear off that label on pillows that says, do not remove ???
A lot of people will also consider removing the mesh liner on the inside of the raingear...... 
Only thing I can say is that they are condemning themselves to hanging onto the rainsuit until it is realy and truly worn out - cause they won't exchange it for you cause it don't fit no more...


----------



## aesop081 (9 Dec 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Do you tear off that label on pillows that says, do not remove ???



Thats not what the tags say.........


----------



## daftandbarmy (9 Dec 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> Exclusive news:
> 
> In the next couple of days, there should be a media announcement that the Army Clothe The Soldier Converged CADPAT Rainsuit contract has been awarded.
> 
> ...



Excellent. 23 years after I was issued waterproof/breathable raingear in the British Army, and 25 years after the US military was issued with the same, we are finally getting the good stuff. Go Canada!


----------



## chrisf (9 Dec 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> And correct me if I am wrong reading the pamphlet about the new raingear, are we supposed to remove the reflective tabs as soon as we get it?



Given the amount of time spent annually on the side of a busy highway tinkering with a broken down LSVW, I for one look FOREWARD to the reflective striping... (I'd keep a safety vest under the seat, but I'm confident it would get "borrowed" and never returned, along with my many ice scrapers, rolls of paper towel for DIs, wheel chocks, drip pans, etc)

Honestly, unless I'm specificly ordered to put the things away, or I'm sneaking around in the woods, I'll be leaving the things out...

I'm after almost getting run over too many times walking to the base... must have somthing to do with the fact that I'm camofluaged... or the fact that Newfoundlanders are terrible drivers...


----------



## TN2IC (9 Dec 2008)

Wow.. Supply guy told me just told me no. I need to be an *air force billet position.* What is that? How would I find out if I was one? 

I"m a (Land) MSE Op working at an Air Element base for the next few years.

Don't get me wrong, the gentleman was very helpful in clearing up my docs with other issues, so I don't have a "hate on" for him. Some how I ended up with 4 or 5 combat shirts on docs... someone didn't cancel out the former ones. So yes.. Supply is always there to help. Servitium Nulli Secundus!


Regards,
Mr Plow


----------



## armyvern (9 Dec 2008)

Mr Plow said:
			
		

> Wow.. Supply guy told me just told me no. I need to be an *air force billet position.* What is that? How would I find out if I was one?
> 
> I"m a (Land) MSE Op working at an Air Element base for the next few years.
> 
> ...



There are folks that wear Army DEU posted to Trenton ... but they are not posted into Air Force billets and are therefore not entitled to the AF raingear.

Working on a Air Base is one thing ... whether or not it's an Air Force Unit (ie Air operational posn on their remar) that you are posted to is quite another.

If you are indeed posted into an Air Force posn ... you ARE entitled ... and I suggest that you revisit clothing stores and ask for your rain gear, failing that - the supervisor, if that's the case.

For example, if you're posted to CFLAWC (CPC), DART, or NBC in Trenton ... those are Army billets in Army Units that just happen to be on Air Force bases; they are not Air Force billets.


----------



## McG (10 Dec 2008)

CFJIRU (formerly JNBC Coy) is CANSOFCOM.


----------



## armyvern (10 Dec 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> CFJIRU (formerly JNBC Coy) is CANSOFCOM.



It ain't AF.


----------



## Doug VT (11 Dec 2008)

Lol, no it's SF....so I'm sure they will have it anyway


----------



## Leeworthy (11 Dec 2008)

Trust me. Youll get way better gear at CJIRU then you would from Clothing anyways lol.


----------



## NL_engineer (13 Dec 2008)

Well after getting a chance to use the new rain gear wile conducting section attacks etc (well I am in Gagetown, and this was done in the snow/rainy crap weather of the past week.) I found it wasn't all that bad.  But keep in mind it was being used in the winter not summer

Pros
I found that it actually breathes, unlike the old rain gear, or the gortex jacket; I wasn't completely drenched at the end of the day.
Fits well under the armor with little to no bulk (except the hood; which I removed)
I found it felt lighter to wear then the old rain gear
The zippered access slots in the rain pants
The pants have large belt loops 

Cons
The arm pockets are not really useful when wearing armor/Tac Vest, I had to get one of the guys in my sect to open it so I could get out the aid to memoir I had put in there.
it is bulky to pack
Warm, I was wearing it in the winter, with just combats and I was worm (it was -8/more like -18 with the Wind Chill) even when standing around
No leg pockets in the rain pants 
the belt loops on the rain pants keep coming unsnapped  : 

Just my 2 cents


----------



## danchapps (13 Dec 2008)

NL_engineer,

Great report on them. Overall do you give them a pass?


----------



## NL_engineer (13 Dec 2008)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> NL_engineer,
> 
> Great report on them. Overall do you give them a pass?



I would give them a pass for use in colder wet weather.  As I said I found them worm wearing them with just combats so I guess i will have to wait ad see how they do in worm weather.


----------



## geo (14 Dec 2008)

Heh.... during the summer, I don't mind getting wet for a while... so not so important if I don't use the raingear BUT, in early spring or late fall when the CADPAT jacket is too much.... this raingear is prolly going to be a godsend


----------



## darmil (29 Dec 2008)

I like the new rain gear! Used it for work up, also in theatre for the first month when it was nippy.Better than the old rubber crap the rain gear has come a long way!


----------



## Fishbone Jones (29 Dec 2008)

You just know that we're going to be told that it's only to be used as raingear and will not be used as a lightweight jacket or windbreaker right?


----------



## NL_engineer (29 Dec 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> You just know that we're going to be told that it's only to be used as raingear and will not be used as a lightweight jacket or windbreaker right?



Have already been told that (within hours of the issue)  :, I can only use it if the weather is questionable (any chance of rain and most of us wear them), or in the field.


----------



## PuckChaser (29 Dec 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Have already been told that (within hours of the issue)  :, I can only use it if the weather is questionable (any chance of rain and most of us wear them), or in the field.



Did you hear the sounds of muskets and cannon fire in the background when you got told that? Some old dinosaurs need to relax a bit.


----------



## Spanky (29 Dec 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Did you hear the sounds of muskets and cannon fire in the background when you got told that? Some old dinosaurs need to relax a bit.



That could have been recceguy reminiscing with his souveniers from the "glory days".  ;D


----------



## geo (29 Dec 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Have already been told that (within hours of the issue)  :, I can only use it if the weather is questionable (any chance of rain and most of us wear them), or in the field.



Ummm.... excluding the issue of wearing CADPAT fleece & soft cap in garrison, I think that wearing any piece of kit should be a matter of common sense.

If it is too hot for a parka, then the combat jacket comes out.
if it is too hot for a combat jacket, then the lightweight gortex jacket comes out
If it is too hot for the lightweight......


----------



## chrisf (29 Dec 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Have already been told that (within hours of the issue)  :, I can only use it if the weather is questionable (any chance of rain and most of us wear them), or in the field.



It's the inverse of the nonsense of when I was jacked up for wearing my combat jacket during rain in the summer....


----------



## Nfld Sapper (29 Dec 2008)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> It's the inverse of the nonsense of when I was jacked up for wearing my combat jacket during rain in the summer....



I guess it depends where you are, I wore mine while instructing at CTC Gagetown and got no grief over it.


----------



## geo (29 Dec 2008)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> I guess it depends where you are, I wore mine while instructing at CTC Gagetown and got no grief over it.



sooo... a question of who you are.... instructor VS candidate >


----------



## NL_engineer (29 Dec 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Ummm.... excluding the issue of wearing CADPAT fleece & soft cap in garrison, I think that wearing any piece of kit should be a matter of common sense.
> 
> If it is too hot for a parka, then the combat jacket comes out.
> if it is too hot for a combat jacket, then the lightweight gortex jacket comes out
> If it is too hot for the lightweight......



For garrison we have the chose on in between days to wear the combat jacket and sweat, or wear the combat shirt and be cold.





			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Did you hear the sounds of muskets and cannon fire in the background when you got told that? Some old dinosaurs need to relax a bit.





			
				geo said:
			
		

> sooo... a question of who you are.... instructor VS candidate >



It was passed down by my COC, they don't agree with it, but you know how it goes  :, someone high up thinks uniformity is higher then comfort (seeing the new raingear is only being issued to deploying troops).





			
				geo said:
			
		

> sooo... a question of who you are.... instructor VS candidate >



He was the guy wearing the combat coat in the rain  ;D


----------



## PuckChaser (29 Dec 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> seeing the new raingear is only being issued to deploying troops



I was under the impression that everyone at a CMBG base was issued them already. I mean, Kingston is scheduled to get them in Jan 09 and we almost get things after CIC officers.


----------



## McG (29 Dec 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that everyone at a CMBG base was issued them already.


If you've been following the thread, you'd note that as of the start of this month the contract had still not been signed for the CTS provision of these jackets:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22851/post-787244.html#msg787244

Those that are in the system were bought on MRs in order to provide a temporary capability to troops preparing to deploy.


----------



## NL_engineer (29 Dec 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that everyone at a CMBG base was issued them already. I mean, Kingston is scheduled to get them in Jan 09 and we almost get things after CIC officers.



I am only going off what I was told (by a supply Tech MCPL)


----------



## old medic (19 Jan 2009)

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2009/01/19/8077796.html

City firm wins military rainsuit contract
By Sun Media
Last Updated: 19th January 2009, 4:22pm



> Winnipeg's Peerless Garments has won a multi-million-dollar contract from the federal government to provide rain suits to Canadian soldiers.
> 
> Peerless will manufacture 74,000 hooded rain jackets, 74,000 rain pants, and extra hoods for the Department of National Defence between now and 2011.
> 
> ...


----------



## Big Foot (19 Jan 2009)

From what I was told at supply here in Shilo, the rainsuits are restricted for the time being, meaning no exchanges or issues. I guess it means I'd best not render it N/S before the new rainsuits start coming in... lol.


----------



## armyvern (19 Jan 2009)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> From what I was told at supply here in Shilo, the rainsuits are restricted for the time being, meaning no exchanges or issues. I guess it means I'd best not render it N/S before the new rainsuits start coming in... lol.



And they'd have told you the truth.  

We've got 92 line items restricted right now in the Army ...


----------



## daftandbarmy (19 Jan 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> And they'd have told you the truth.
> 
> We've got 92 line items restricted right now in the Army ...



Wow. Is that because we're running out of them?


----------



## McG (19 Jan 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Wow. Is that because we're running out of them?


Possibly for some items.  In the case of the new rain gear it is because we've only aquired such small numbers so far.  In the case of other things I would suspect hoarding is also part of the problem.  Would you believe the TacVest is a difficult item because units (who used to be responsible for signing them to soldiers) will not return stock which is now above entitlement?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (19 Jan 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> Possibly for some items.  In the case of the new rain gear it is because we've only aquired such small numbers so far.  In the case of other things I would suspect hoarding is also part of the problem.  Would you believe the TacVest is a difficult item because units (who used to be responsible for signing them to soldiers) will not return stock which is now above entitlement?



Problem in your neck of the woods?  ;D


----------



## medaid (19 Jan 2009)

Someone is HOARDING TacVests?! Who are they?! They can HAVE mine! ;D


----------



## armyvern (19 Jan 2009)

Even the OLD olive drab rain gear is restricted right now ... not enough kit to kit all the students and staff (that`s right ... here in Gagetown we are all still in the old OD stuff) out ... and they are coming first now in the order of priority.  

Just run a DIN search on:

CLS Op Clothing Strategic Plan

to see what`s up in the world of restrictions on Army kit.


----------



## Journeyman (20 Jan 2009)

> *...will manufacture 74,000 hooded rain jackets, 74,000 rain pants, and extra hoods ....*


Well, thank goodness for that! I can't recall the number of times I was desperately short of a rain jacket hood! _~whew~_


----------



## NL_engineer (20 Jan 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Well, thank goodness for that! I can't recall the number of times I was desperately short of a rain jacket hood! _~whew~_



I think the hood for my new rain jacket is in the trunk of my car, and the one on my Gor-tex is only out to be repacked after a wash  ;D.  You can guess how much I wear a hood in uniform.





			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Even the OLD olive drab rain gear is restricted right now ... not enough kit to kit all the students and staff (that`s right ... here in Gagetown we are all still in the old OD stuff) out ... and they are coming first now in the order of priority.
> 
> Just run a DIN search on:
> 
> ...



Hey Vern if you are still short Tac Vests you can have mine, all I want is to have it off my docs,  and a note to wear my chest rig   ;D


----------



## OldSolduer (20 Jan 2009)

The local rag informed me that a local Winnipeg company has been awarded the contract for this new rain gear.


----------



## Ecco (21 Jan 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> The local rag informed me that a local Winnipeg company has been awarded the contract for this new rain gear.



Old Medic published the news yesterday.

Marin Cash signs an article in the Winnipeg Free Press.
A shorter article from CTV Winnipeg.
CBC strangely quotes the PWGSC minister, who was absent from the presentation.


----------



## dapaterson (21 Jan 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Even the OLD olive drab rain gear is restricted right now ... not enough kit to kit all the students and staff (that`s right ... here in Gagetown we are all still in the old OD stuff) out ... and they are coming first now in the order of priority.
> 
> Just run a DIN search on:
> 
> ...



CANLANDGEN 013/08 would be a good place to start.  It's not a pretty sight.  Anyone who can find a pair of size 10 Mukluks, please let me know...


----------



## PanaEng (21 Jan 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> CANLANDGEN 013/08 would be a good place to start.  It's not a pretty sight.  Anyone who can find a pair of size 10 Mukluks, please let me know...


just got a pair a few weeks ago - the inserts/socks one was size 11 and the other size 6...
 ???


----------



## Eye In The Sky (21 Jan 2009)

HAHAHAHHAHA...ohhh I love stories like that!


----------



## Lerch (21 Jan 2009)

Bah, that's nothing!
When I left Gagetown last month for 1 Horse, I had to return my OD raingear to the RQ, and when I got to Shilo I managed to get a CADPAT rainjacket (albeit the wrong size) but they didn't have any trousers even close to my size and told me to come back after Christmas for them. I came back and was issued OD trousers...

Fun eh?


----------



## armyvern (22 Jan 2009)

Lerch said:
			
		

> Bah, that's nothing!
> When I left Gagetown last month for 1 Horse, I had to return my OD raingear to the RQ, and when I got to Shilo I managed to get a CADPAT rainjacket (albeit the wrong size) but they didn't have any trousers even close to my size and told me to come back after Christmas for them. I came back and was issued OD trousers...
> 
> Fun eh?



Actually .... didn't you read the CANLANDGEN suggested below yet?

YES Houston - it really IS that bad out there these days with army operational kit. Ergo the reason that as a candidate your OD raingear is issued from a "loan pool". People being posted here as non-students ... aren't even availed of that opportunity - they get squat.

Read the message. Actually, read the actual CLS Op Clothing Plan for all the nitty-gritty details.

Your "Bah, that's nothing story" IS the normal story these days for Army kit as directed by that CANLANDGEN. It's a lovely time to be the sup tech working the counter of clothing stores --- the "putting up with BS from the troops factor" has gone up drasticly ... through no fault of their own.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (22 Jan 2009)

I am still curious why (or maybe they are, and I am not aware) they aren't taking the CADPAT raingear from folks like us on the Wings who only see 'the field' if they go berry-picking or something, and giving it to the folks that *really* need it.  

I love my CADPAT rain gear (the last generation Air Force CEMS pattern, not the new CCR) but I certainly can do without it.


----------



## geo (22 Jan 2009)

EITS.... The CADPAT raingear the people in the wings have was bought & paid for by the Airforce.  It meets Airforce standards while not technicaly meeting the Army's.  It isn't up to the Army commander to comandeer gear purchased by the Air Commander.

... as simple as that - as complicated as that.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (22 Jan 2009)

Geo,

See, I was using 'common sense' so that negats it from every happening


----------



## geo (22 Jan 2009)

common sense & military bureaucracy....  = Oxymoron.


----------



## McG (22 Jan 2009)

The army has been doing small purchases to ensure pers going into high readiness training have the new rain gear.  As a result, the “folks that *really* need it” were getting it.  There would be a horrible time wasting shnmozzle having AF pers exchange their new raingear for old, then getting the Army to swap old for AF only to then get all the Army to swap AF for new and migrate the AF back to the AF (who will still be able to use it or the new converged).


----------



## Bzzliteyr (22 Jan 2009)

And you want them to talk with each other?!?!  Crazy!


----------



## Eye In The Sky (22 Jan 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> The army has been doing small purchases to ensure pers going into high readiness training have the new rain gear.  As a result, the “folks that *really* need it” were getting it.  There would be a horrible time wasting shnmozzle having AF pers exchange their new raingear for old, then getting the Army to swap old for AF only to then get all the Army to swap AF for new and migrate the AF back to the AF (who will still be able to use it or the new converged).



I was thinking more along the line of....

Snr Army Log O calls Senior Air Force Log O...

Air Force:  "You have reached the voicemail of Senior Officer Bloggins...if you are calling before 10 am, or on a Friday, or on a Monday, I am not in the office.  Please leave a message"       >

Army:  "Hey, Bill, how are you.  Listen...can you ship us X amount of the CADPAT raingear you have in boxes still?  We can use some.  Call me back at..."



I know things don't work exactly that way but...it sure would be nice if they did, and the army types would have a set of the CADPAT raingear that is hanging 3 feet from me in my closet all winter...


----------



## McG (23 Jan 2009)

A post has been removed which added nothing to this topic except to fuel inter-service enmity.  If you want to disagree, do it constructively and keep it relevant to the topic.


----------



## mover1 (23 Jan 2009)

The fun police got me!


----------



## dan005e (28 Jan 2009)

Well looks like from the sounds of it, I was damn lucky to get my CADPAT raingear a few days before I went on tour. At the time I thought it was useless considering I didnt have it for work-up; but from what I've seen since I got back, very very few people in the batallion seem to have it.


----------



## PuckChaser (28 Jan 2009)

dan005e said:
			
		

> Well looks like from the sounds of it, I was damn lucky to get my CADPAT raingear a few days before I went on tour. At the time I thought it was useless considering I didnt have it for work-up; but from what I've seen since I got back, very very few people in the batallion seem to have it.



They issue the TW CADPAT Raingear to pers deploying, but then when you get to theatre they give you AR CADPAT Raingear..... seems like a silly way to issue kit, it sits in someone's room for 7 months before it even gets used!


----------



## geo (29 Jan 2009)

Heh... 7 months and quite a few pounds later


----------



## Bzzliteyr (29 Jan 2009)

I never used my raingear in Afg.  I turned it back in with the same folds that it came with.  And that's the AR stuff I am talking about, never got the TW.


----------



## Good2Golf (29 Jan 2009)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I never used my raingear in Afg.  I turned it back in with the same folds that it came with.  And that's the AR stuff I am talking about, never got the TW.



Same here, Buzz, but the AR was plastic crap.  My TW 2-in-1 was preferred rig with fleece in Jan/Feb snow/wet-cold season. I had to keep my eyes open for COBRA-6 trying to club me and pull me behind a bunker to get my jacket...  

G2G


----------



## armyvern (29 Jan 2009)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Same here, Buzz, but the AR was plastic crap.



Yeah, but that was years ago ... back when I was supposed to come over to theatre and work for you; Generation "ancient stuff" ...  >


----------



## Nfld Sapper (12 Feb 2009)

So should I hold my breath  ;D

Army to receive new rainwear in spring 2009
by MCpl Bern LeBlancDownload article 

WINNIPEG — New rain suits designed to keep soldiers dry and comfortable will be arriving at military depots across Canada in spring 2009. 

The Government of Canada announced on January 19 that it was awarding a contract worth $32.5 million to Peerless Garments Ltd. of Winnipeg to supply the rainwear to the Army. 

The rain wear is to be worn in temperatures ranging from 5ºC to 25ºC and will provide wind and rain protection as well as breathability.

“These products are outstanding,” said Brigadier-General Kelly Woiden, Deputy Commander, Land Forces Western Area. “They will replace the neoprene rainwear that the troops are using now, which is not anti-static and does not breathe.” 

The contract is part of the Army’s Clothe the Soldier Project, started in 1996. Its goal is to properly outfit soldiers to operate in all types of weather conditions. 

Once completed, the rain suits will be sent to military depots across Canada. The soldiers can expect the rain suits in early- to mid-spring. 

Peerless will produce 74 000 rain trousers and 74 000 hooded rain jackets, as well as extra hoods and speciallysized pants and hooded jackets. The rain suits will carry the CF’s trademarked Canadian Disruptive Pattern (CADPAT) camouflage. The company has certified that the fabric will be woven in Canada.

“It is a cornerstone of this Government’s Canada First Defence Strategy to provide our CF members with the tools they need to continue their outstanding work,” said the Defence Minister Peter MacKay.


----------



## PuckChaser (12 Feb 2009)

Translation of Spring 2009 to Army terms? November 2011.


----------



## geo (12 Feb 2009)

sometimes.... but not always true puckchaser


----------



## Nfld Sapper (12 Feb 2009)

Like my unit is supposed to transition to the C7A2's this spring/fall .......


----------



## COBRA-6 (13 Feb 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> So should I hold my breath  ;D
> 
> Army to receive new rainwear in spring 2009
> by MCpl Bern LeBlancDownload article
> ...



13 years to deliver waterproof breathable rainwear, huzzah!


----------



## PMedMoe (13 Feb 2009)

COBRA-6 said:
			
		

> 13 years to deliver waterproof breathable rainwear, huzzah!



I read that as the *Clothe the Soldier* project started in 1996, not the rain gear contract.


----------



## Good2Golf (13 Feb 2009)

Hey COBRA, do you have yours yet?  I'm not using mine at the moment... 

Cheers buddy!

G2G


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (13 Feb 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I read that as the *Clothe the Soldier* project started in 1996, not the rain gear contract.



The point is though I think that is has taken this long for someone to figure out that Canada has four seasons and that Gore-Tex (or similar) textiles exist to be used in clothing. Interestingly other nations have been on the Gore-Tex bandwagon for ages.

Huzzah, indeed.


----------



## PMedMoe (13 Feb 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> The point is though I think that is has taken this long for someone to figure out that Canada has four seasons and that Gore-Tex (or similar) textiles exist to be used in clothing. Interestingly other nations have been on the Gore-Tex bandwagon for ages.
> 
> Huzzah, indeed.



Yes, I agree with you.  When they came out with the fleece and new jackets and rain gear, I wondered why they hadn't done something similar to the 3-in-1 coats with a water proof layer, a warmth layer and a windbreaker-type layer that could be worn separately or two and three together as required.  Guess that made too much sense, huh?


----------



## HItorMiss (13 Feb 2009)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Hey COBRA, do you have yours yet?  I'm not using mine at the moment...
> 
> Cheers buddy!
> 
> G2G



Just keep rubbing that in eh G2G..... ;D


----------



## mover1 (13 Feb 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree with you.  When they came out with the fleece and new jackets and rain gear, I wondered why they hadn't done something similar to the 3-in-1 coats with a water proof layer, a warmth layer and a windbreaker-type layer that could be worn separately or two and three together as required.  Guess that made too much sense, huh?



Probably the same reason why they didn't change/update the style of the combat shirts or pants to become more functional.


----------



## NL_engineer (14 Feb 2009)

mover1 said:
			
		

> Probably the same reason why they didn't change/update the style of the combat shirts or pants to become more functional.



They did take out the FN mag pockets, and replace it with a useless Velcro pocket  :


----------



## 421 EME (30 Mar 2009)

Anyone have any updates on the CADPAT raingear???  Maybe something like when are we going to get it.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (30 Mar 2009)

421 EME said:
			
		

> Anyone have any updates on the CADPAT raingear???  Maybe something like when are we going to get it.



I.e SITREPS across Canada, incl NCR.


----------



## danchapps (30 Mar 2009)

6-8 months depending on where you are. Takes time to make all the kit. I know you guys want it now (I'd like to have it too) but the manufacturer can only make so much at a time. Like all new kit there is a phasing in process. Who knows, some units may get it in say, June, others might be as long as November. Patience is the best virtue to have with this, and please don't scream at the Suppie working the counter because they say you can't get it yet. There are others above them that say no, or there may not be stock yet. They don't say no to be a prick, there's a reason for it.


----------



## daftandbarmy (30 Mar 2009)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> 6-8 months depending on where you are. Takes time to make all the kit. I know you guys want it now (I'd like to have it too) but the manufacturer can only make so much at a time. Like all new kit there is a phasing in process. Who knows, some units may get it in say, June, others might be as long as November. Patience is the best virtue to have with this, and please don't scream at the Suppie working the counter because they say you can't get it yet. There are others above them that say no, or there may not be stock yet. They don't say no to be a prick, there's a reason for it.



That sounds like we all should have it by Christmas, right?  ;D


----------



## Fide et Fortitudine (30 Mar 2009)

Guys on roto 1-09 have received it, so like chapeski said, it's being phased in.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (30 Mar 2009)

I never wait on stuff like this. Being Reserve now, I never get it into my mind we'll get it issued before I retire. I just act suprised  when the Supply type wants to give it to me. 

"Whoa! What's this??? Cool, someone likes me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "


----------



## Nfld Sapper (30 Mar 2009)

ffs we will get it when we get it.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> I never wait on stuff like this. Being Reserve now, I never get it into my mind we'll get it issued before I retire. I just act suprised  when the Supply type wants to give it to me.
> 
> "Whoa! What's this??? Cool, someone likes me
> 
> ...



Same here.


----------



## George Wallace (30 Mar 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> ffs we will get it when we get it.
> 
> Same here.



Ah! Yess!  The old addage: "Nothing is too good for the Troops, so nothing is what they will get."   :nod:


 ;D


----------



## George Wallace (30 Mar 2009)

Having just returned from a day in the rain on the range, and lying on the firing point in my old olive drab issue rainsuit and staying perfectly dry, I wonder if a CADPAT rainsuit would have hid me any better when covered with mud, or in a torrential downpour.    :-\   As soon as I do anything physical, I have to take off my rainsuit, rain or shine, because I overheat and sweat more than any rain could soak me.    :camo:  Oh, well, some day I too may have a LCF suit to wear while standing in the rain.   ;D


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (30 Mar 2009)

Wonder what your OD rainsuit is made of? Mine lets moisture in, seams or no seams.

Civvy Gore-Tex jacket, on the other hand, has protected me 100% in many downpours. I would trust this tech more than the neoprene junk we currently have.


----------



## George Wallace (30 Mar 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Wonder what your OD rainsuit is made of? Mine lets moisture in, seams or no seams.
> 
> Civvy Gore-Tex jacket, on the other hand, has protected me 100% in many downpours. I would trust this tech more than the neoprene junk we currently have.



How old is your rainsuit?  How worn is it?  If it feels like denim, and not rubberized, then go in and exchange it.  It is worn out/broken/toast/ N/S or U/S or whatever you want to call it, and not worth packing around/wearing; so go in and get a new one.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (30 Mar 2009)

It still feels and looks like a rainsuit. How old it is, I don't know. Made by Century 21 Apparels Ltd. The seams are shot, tape is slowly peeling off and the rubber material just doesn't seem to hold water (unless it's sweat, then it's great!). I have entertained the option of getting it exchanged, but having overheard folks at Clothing talking about getting rid of old raingear stock in preparation for the CCR, I doubt I would have much luck in getting a new set of the old stuff.
It would be interesting to see how the supply of the CCR moves along the Priority ranking. Being in the NCR, Pri 6, I don't have high hopes for any movement anytime soon.


----------



## George Wallace (30 Mar 2009)

Give them a try.  I was surprised that mine were dated 1996.  

No mfr listed on label:

W8463-5-BB0F/001-PE      
8405-21-912-4801     
7040         
08 1996


If you wait, they will have made their move over to Gatineau.  (Half their stores are there now.)


----------



## danchapps (30 Mar 2009)

Fide et Fortitudine said:
			
		

> Guys on roto 1-09 have received it, so like chapeski said, it's being phased in.



The task forces have been issued this kit for a while now. This being said, the kit that the TF's have been issued of the last, lets say year and a half, that was all an interim purchase that was meant to hold the CF over (issuing only to TF types) until a main contract was signed (just this past January). Those that have been issued it on previous TF's are able to keep the TW pattern, however must return the Arid pattern upon completion of the mission. The reason that the TF's are issued the TW pattern is so that they are accustomed to the kit that is worn overseas. I've heard folks say that this stuff is never worn over there, but it is, it's just the Arid stuff.

With any luck this manufacturer is able to produce the product in a quick manner, and the troops can finally get the kit they've all been begging for. (Side note, the company that was manufacturing the temp kit is also the company that won the contract for the not so temp kit, thus able to keep the current line open, and pumping out the gear without having to worry about getting patterns and what-not sorted out.)


----------



## armyvern (31 Mar 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> I have entertained the option of getting it exchanged, but having overheard folks at Clothing talking about getting rid of old raingear stock in preparation for the CCR, I doubt I would have much luck in getting a new set of the old stuff.



No option there. Those folks in clothing aren't getting "rid of it" in preparation for the cadpat gear.

They are getting rid of it by shipping it either to Saint Jean or here to Gagetown for Loan Pools. The OD raingear is one of the 92 line items on the CLS Strategic Op Clothing Plan.

We can't issue it to anyone anymore permanently (or exchange it either). All we can do is issue it on temp basis via a loan to "candidates undergoing training". They are Pri 1 (after international ops of course).

The reason for that is because there's been a prolonged national shortage of certain items (see list mentioned above) and CLS has deemed prioritiy for their items to be:

1) International Ops;
2) a.  All Reg F Recruits undergoing BMQ;
    b.  followed by all Reg F Army recruits undergoing Army courses such as CAP; 
3) Res F recruits undergoing trg (IF quantities left over after satisfying above    
    requirements permit).

4) Everyone else.

Also on that list is rucksacks (old style). And no, I have no raingear and no, I can't issue a ruck or raingear (or exchange for) to anyone actually "posted" to this base. 

CANLANDGEN 013/08 CLS 028/08 also refers, but I'll quote the CLS Strategic Plan:


> CLS G4 approved (13 Apr 08) a Strategic Operational Clothing plan consisting of redistribution for immediate implementation.
> The intent is to prioritize and structure the operational clothing distribution in order to improve the support and sustain all CLS (Army) Operations and Training.
> The Plan includes two different parts.
> 1) Operational clothing distribution: establishment of priorities, distribution of LF Area loan pools and manage the clothing redistribution IAW CLS  priorities.
> ...


----------



## NL_engineer (31 Mar 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Having just returned from a day in the rain on the range, and lying on the firing point in my old olive drab issue rainsuit and staying perfectly dry, I wonder if a CADPAT rainsuit would have hid me any better when covered with mud, or in a torrential downpour.    :-\   As soon as I do anything physical, I have to take off my rainsuit, rain or shine, because I overheat and sweat more than any rain could soak me.    :camo:  Oh, well, some day I too may have a LCF suit to wear while standing in the rain.   ;D



It would have been heaver, bulkier, and the tape on the seems seems to like coming off when put on/taken off.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (31 Mar 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If you wait, they will have made their move over to Gatineau.  (Half their stores are there now.)



You're talking about the much rumoured move of the NDHQ clothing stores? Anyone have any further on this, and what impact this will have (aside from extra travel requirements) on availability of kit?


----------



## MedCorps (20 May 2009)

Today I was (unfortunately) in a briefing where some fellow went off for a solid 45 minutes on the new rain suit, affectionately called the CCR, or CADPAT Converged Rainsuit.  

Here are the more interesting bits...

The contract has been awarded to Peerless Garments of Winnipeg.  They will be making 74,000 of these outfits, which we were assured would be more than enough to go around for everyone. 

It is an improvement on the Air Force "2-in-1" rainsuit and will have custom fit options, better ventilation and more pockets.  It will be issued in CADPAT AR and TW. 

Fielding... 

1 - OP Stock 
2 - OP Pers
3 - School Troops with no rain gear on their individual acct 
4 - Pers on a NTM
5 - LFA's Reg F and Res F 
6 - Everyone else in the Army 
7 - Specialized Units not in the Army CoC

Sooner or later all army folk will be entitled to 1 x CTS CCR.  What I thought amusing was that Army folks who have been crafty enough to get issued a Air Force 2-in-1 suit will be last on the list to get the CCR as you cannot trade the AF 2-in1 suit for a CCR, only a OG 107 suit for a CCR until the initial fielding is done. 

Despite the priority of issue above the real issue plan was then brought up. When questioned on why the real issue plan did not match the proposed issue plan the fellow at the front of the room looked puzzled, mumbled something about the COS for Land Ops not talking with DLR, who did not talk to DSSPM when the LCMM was out of the office. It was fun to watch him squirm for the 30 seconds, then I lost interest and went back to surfing for porn on my bosses blackberry. 

We were told, as of today that 2700 of these things are in Op Stock and 2200 have been / are being issued to LFTDS Units with CMTC at the top of the pile and CFSCE being at the bottom of the pile. 

Next issues are as fol: 

End Jun 09 - OP PODIUM 
Start Aug 09 - 4 AD Regt, 4 ESR, CFJIRU  
Start Sept 09 - TF 1-10
End Sept 09 - LFCA

Mid Dec 09 - LFWA (someone made a joke about canceling X-mas leave for the issue, it was again not well received). 

Start May 10 - TF 3-10 and 5-10 
End May 10 - SQFT
Mid July 10 - LFAA

Mid Aug 10 - LF HQ, NDHQ pers who are entitled, all other army CC2 pers in an unsupported location. All recruits at point of entry. 

The total issue of 35,200 suits to Army pers was then mentioned.  Wait... what happened to the 74,000 that was mentioned on slide 2?  (Someone made a joke about accounting for e-bay loss, which set the presenter off on this fit of excitement ... it was funny).  The other 38,800 are back up stock.  Makes sense to me, but then again I am not a bin rat. Lots of conversation then started about estimated procurement models versus actual requirement and costing of such things.  I went to the washroom and did not come back. 

So... they are in the pipe... 

I hope that is of some interest to everyone.  Truth be told I only stayed because I knew it was a Army.ca hot topic (and I wanted to know how to get a new CCR before all of the people that really need it). 

Cheers, 

MC


----------



## chrisf (20 May 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Having just returned from a day in the rain on the range, and lying on the firing point in my old olive drab issue rainsuit and staying perfectly dry, I wonder if a CADPAT rainsuit would have hid me any better when covered with mud, or in a torrential downpour.    :-\



I can imagine it will... the current goretex combat jacket/windpants certainly do... I've been in some ridiculous down pours in mine... in all seasons (Including nasty wet east coast sleet storms)... any time I've discovered anyone who claims their goretex leaks, it's because they haven't washed it since christ was a corpral.


----------



## dapaterson (20 May 2009)

From what I've seen, there are two easy ways to get either the CCR or AF 2 in 1:

(1) Work in DLR.

(2) Be married to someone in DLR.


----------



## chris_log (20 May 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> From what I've seen, there are two easy ways to get either the CCR or AF 2 in 1:
> 
> (1) Work in DLR.
> 
> (2) Be married to someone in DLR.



Most people where I am have it, although it's still Ops Restricted here.


----------



## PuckChaser (20 May 2009)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> and 2200 have been / are being issued to LFTDS Units



Sweet!! Finally a benefit to being the only operational unit within LFDTS!


----------



## armyvern (21 May 2009)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Today I was (unfortunately) in a briefing where some fellow went off for a solid 45 minutes on the new rain suit, affectionately called the CCR, or CADPAT Converged Rainsuit.
> 
> Here are the more interesting bits...
> 
> ...



CFSCE is at the bottom of the pile ... for schools - note where they are on the list though eh?

Interesting to see your "briefing" as it compares to my official document (the one with actual dates 'some-now-passed for Schools/Units) ... close, but not quite.

CMTC doesn't have thiers yet (after speaking with their IC Clot last Friday) ... and they are pri 1 after Ops. 

You'll all live though; I'm sure of it.


----------



## Eric_911 (21 May 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> You're talking about the much rumoured move of the NDHQ clothing stores? Anyone have any further on this, and what impact this will have (aside from extra travel requirements) on availability of kit?



The move to National Printing Bureau should have been complete on the 19th of May. I believe NDHQ has laid on an extra shuttle, making a total of three shuttle busses bouncing between NDHQ, NPB, HdV and LStL


----------



## armyvern (21 May 2009)

Sigh.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (5 Jun 2009)

I gotta say the Arid rain gear came in handy a couple times as a nice windbreaker during the sandstorms and the torrent of rain in Jan.
Good piece of kit.


----------



## NL_engineer (5 Jun 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I gotta say the Arid rain gear came in handy a couple times as a nice windbreaker during the sandstorms and the torrent of rain in Jan.
> Good piece of kit.



I have used mine last night, when it got really cold.  Other then that it has been strapped on the outside of my small pack (my just in case vehicle break down/overnight op bag).


----------



## daftandbarmy (8 Jun 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I gotta say the Arid rain gear came in handy a couple times as a nice windbreaker during the sandstorms and the torrent of rain in Jan.
> Good piece of kit.



Excellent. It looks like we have another contender for entry into this thread: 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/71767.180.html

Well done Canada and CTS!


----------



## Gunner98 (21 Jul 2009)

CANFORGEN 134/09 CLS 026/09 211450Z JUL 09
DISTRIBUTION OF CONVERGED CADPAT RAINSUIT (CCR)
UNCLASSIFIED

REF: 30000-1 DLR 5-4-2 DPD CONVERGED RAINSUIT 00000937 05 MAY 09 CADPAT CONVERGED RAINSUIT (CCR) FIELDING PLAN

THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO INFORM ALL CF PERSONNEL OF THE FIELDING OF THE NEW CLOTHE THE SOLDIER (CTS) CONVERGED CADPAT RAINSUIT (CCR). THE FIELDING PLAN CAN BE READ AT HTTP://VCDS.MIL.CA/CLS/DMCS/FILESO/DMCS-60759.PDF 
THE AIR FORCE (AF) INITIALLY DEVELOPED A RAIN JACKET AND PANT ENSEMBLE USING THE WATER, MOISTURE VAPOUR PERMEABLE (WMVP) TECHNOLOGY INCORPORATING ANTI-STATIC PROPERTIES INTO THE TEXTILE TO ADDRESS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THEIR FLIGHT LINE PERSONNEL. THE CONVERGENCE WITH THE AF RAINSUIT ALLOWS THE ARMY TO OPTIMIZE THE CURRENT DESIGN WHILE ADDING MODIFICATIONS THAT INCLUDE CUSTOMIZED FIT OPTIONS, IMPROVED VENTILATION AND ADDITIONAL POCKETS. THE CCR IS AVAILABLE IN BOTH CADPAT TW AND AR MAKING IT COMPATIBLE WITH OTHER IN-SERVICE COMBAT CLOTHING 
THE CCR FIELDING PLAN IS A PHASED ROLL OUT WITH FULL ISSUE TO BE COMPLETED IN 3 YEARS. PLEASE REFER TO THE FIELDING PLAN FOR DETAILS ON THE DISTRIBUTION. ALL CF CLOTHING STORES ARE TO SUPPORT THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE CCR IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FIELDING PLAN 
ALL LAND FORCE PERSONNEL, BOTH REGULAR AND RESERVE, WILL BE ISSUED A NEW CADPAT RAINSUIT. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FIELDING PLAN, DISTRIBUTION WILL BE DONE BASED ON ENTITLEMENTS AND A DETAILED FIELDING SCHEDULE. UNITS ARE TO NOTE THAT THERE WILL BE MIXED FLEETS OF THE 2-IN-1 RAINSUIT AND THE CCR FOR UP TO THREE YEARS. THE OG-107 IS THE INTERIM RAINSUIT UNTIL EACH UNIT COMES UP IN THE FIELDING PLAN 
THERE ARE TO BE NO, REPEAT NO, MODIFICATIONS TO THE NEW RAINSUIT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE REMOVAL OF THE REFLECTIVE STRIPS AND OR THE CUTTING OUT OF THE LINER 
THERE WILL BE NO EXCHANGE OF AF 2-IN-ONE RAINSUITS THAT ARE CURRENTLY HELD BY ARMY PERSONNEL FOR THE CCR. IF A 2-IN-1 IS DAMAGED AND RETURNED, IT WILL BE REPLACED WITH AN OG-107 RAINSUIT UNTIL THE ENTIRE ARMY HAS RECEIVED THE CCR AND THE STOCK IS BUILT UP AS PLANNED. THE MAINTENANCE CONCEPT FOR THE CCR IS ANNEX B TO THE FIELDING PLAN. DAMAGED RAINSUITS WILL NOT BE REPLACED, THEY WILL BE REPAIRED, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MAINTENANCE PLAN 
QUESTION ON THE FIELDING PLAN WITH RESPECT TO OUTCAN AND OR SMALL MISSIONS MAY BE ADDRESSED TO LCOL C.A. BRADDON, ARMY G34, VIA YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND 
SIGNED LGEN A.B.LESLIE, CLS


----------



## dapaterson (21 Jul 2009)

But is there a team from CTS travelling from base to base to issue the raingear, since (obviously) we can't trust local base clothing / base supply staff to size or issue it properly?

Or does that only apply to rucksacks?


----------



## Eye In The Sky (21 Jul 2009)

Hmmm.  Well, not to throw gas on a fire here, but I am sure the Army folks will be glad to hear they issued atleast 1 person I know at 12 Wing the new CCR.  I had assumed that the Air Force has issued out all of its 2-in-1 suits and was now giving out the CCR.  

You'll be even happier to know he is a 500-series type on PAT until sometimes in '10.


----------



## Good2Golf (21 Jul 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  Well, not to throw gas on a fire here, but I am sure the Army folks will be glad to hear they issued atleast 1 person I know at 12 Wing the new CCR.  I had assumed that the Air Force has issued out all of its 2-in-1 suits and was now giving out the CCR.
> 
> You'll be even happier to know he is a 500-series type on PAT until sometimes in '10.



Well, it is a converged design so it kind of makes sense the the AF is issuing new AF folks with the CCR, right?


----------



## Infanteer (22 Jul 2009)

The new raingear is outstanding.  I've worn it for weeks in different environments - all you need is a puffy-jacket and you can pretty much ditch the ICE Jacket.

However, I've seen 3 versions - my original (Gen 2?) with sleeve pockets and name velcro got wrecked in the turret and suffered a zipper blow-out.  I take it back and get one with no pockets or velcro.  I now see there is one with pockets and expanded velcro for tactical patches such as IR reflectors.


----------



## PMedMoe (22 Jul 2009)

Nice.  Too bad I'll have to wait three years to get it, not being at an operational unit.  Clothing Stores here doesn't give much credence to being "high readiness".

 :


----------



## Eye In The Sky (22 Jul 2009)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Well, it is a converged design so it kind of makes sense the the AF is issuing new AF folks with the CCR, right?



He's not new, just a re-tread.  I didn't think the AF would be out of stock of the 2-in-1 at this point I guess.  But, more to the point...the green guys have to wait to get it while a tech sitting in the student lounge most of the time gets it.

 :blotto:


----------



## Good2Golf (22 Jul 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> But, more to the point...the green guys have to wait to get it while a tech sitting in the student lounge most of the time gets it.
> 
> :blotto:



Sounds like the Army's issue then; it's not the new tech's fault, nor is it the Air Force's fault for gearing up their folks. 

Lift it up a few levels and you could re-phrase your sentence: "More to the point, the Army prioritizes the personal kit issue lower than the Air Force so a soldier has to wait for the kit, while even a relatively new (to a trade) Air Force airman gets the gear on initial issue."   

Cheers
G2G


----------



## Eye In The Sky (23 Jul 2009)

That works for me.   8)

Go Air Force!   ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Jul 2009)

Got to love Gagetown all the schools and LFAATC Staff are entitled to the CCR gear except Reserve staff at CFSME.


----------



## ajp (23 Jul 2009)

The Armd School just got the issue.  Mines still in the bag.  Hey look....its gonna rain!


----------



## OldSolduer (23 Jul 2009)

I'm in the molitttiiaa.....I can expect mine just in time for me to retire!!


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Jul 2009)

ajp said:
			
		

> The Armd School just got the issue.  Mines still in the bag.  Hey look....its gonna rain!



Hmm.... don't I know you from somewhere?


----------



## Eye In The Sky (23 Jul 2009)

ajp said:
			
		

> The Armd School just got the issue.  Mines still in the bag.  Hey look....its gonna rain!



It doesn't rain in the halls of the School does it?  Last I heard, the only "field" you've seen was of the U-Pick variety...

 ;D


----------



## Good2Golf (23 Jul 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> That works for me.   8)
> 
> Go Air Force!   ;D



...well, some part of the Air Force, anyway!


----------



## dapaterson (23 Jul 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Got to love Gagetown all the schools and LFAATC Staff are entitled to the CCR gear except Reserve staff at CFSME.



Reserve staff are augmentees, not part of the school proper.  It would be the same for a Reg F member sent on a TD tasking to the school - no entitlement through the school.

As I recall, LFAA units are at the end of the list... so buy a CADPAT umbrella while you're waiting...


----------



## NL_engineer (23 Jul 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Got to love Gagetown all the schools and LFAATC Staff are entitled to the CCR gear except Reserve staff at CFSME.



Suck it up.  I have 2 sets at the moment  ;D


----------



## Good2Golf (23 Jul 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Suck it up.  I have 2 sets at the moment  ;D



Lord tunnerin' jeez dare bye....you Newf Cbt Engrs are a tough lot on each other! :warstory:


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Jul 2009)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Lord tunnerin' jeez dare bye....you Newf Cbt Engrs are a tough lot on each other! :warstory:



but...........  he started it .........................


 ;D


----------



## Good2Golf (23 Jul 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> but...........  he started it .........................



Don't make me come back there!  So help me, if I have to stop this car....


 ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Jul 2009)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Don't make me come back there!  So help me, if I have to stop this car....
> 
> 
> ;D



Alright dad............






 ;D


----------



## ajp (24 Jul 2009)

NFLD Sapper - you may know me....I am the Hansom Capt in Green


----------



## Eye In The Sky (24 Jul 2009)

ajp said:
			
		

> NFLD Sapper - you may know me....I am the Hansom Capt in Green



Hansom eh?  

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hansom


----------



## Nfld Sapper (24 Jul 2009)

ajp said:
			
		

> NFLD Sapper - you may know me....I am the Hansom Capt in Green



Where you PEIR before?


----------



## Good2Golf (24 Jul 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Hansom eh?
> 
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hansom



Is it just me, or are other people having fun with the "pronounce - speaker" buttons too?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (27 Jul 2009)

CANFORGEN 134/09 CLS 026/09 211450Z JUL 09
DISTRIBUTION OF CONVERGED CADPAT RAINSUIT (CCR)
UNCLASSIFIED

REF: 30000-1 DLR 5-4-2 DPD CONVERGED RAINSUIT 00000937 05 MAY 09 CADPAT CONVERGED RAINSUIT (CCR) FIELDING PLAN

THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO INFORM ALL CF PERSONNEL OF THE FIELDING OF THE NEW CLOTHE THE SOLDIER (CTS) CONVERGED CADPAT RAINSUIT (CCR). THE FIELDING PLAN CAN BE READ AT HTTP://VCDS.MIL.CA/CLS/DMCS/FILESO/DMCS-60759.PDF 
THE AIR FORCE (AF) INITIALLY DEVELOPED A RAIN JACKET AND PANT ENSEMBLE USING THE WATER, MOISTURE VAPOUR PERMEABLE (WMVP) TECHNOLOGY INCORPORATING ANTI-STATIC PROPERTIES INTO THE TEXTILE TO ADDRESS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THEIR FLIGHT LINE PERSONNEL. THE CONVERGENCE WITH THE AF RAINSUIT ALLOWS THE ARMY TO OPTIMIZE THE CURRENT DESIGN WHILE ADDING MODIFICATIONS THAT INCLUDE CUSTOMIZED FIT OPTIONS, IMPROVED VENTILATION AND ADDITIONAL POCKETS. THE CCR IS AVAILABLE IN BOTH CADPAT TW AND AR MAKING IT COMPATIBLE WITH OTHER IN-SERVICE COMBAT CLOTHING 
THE CCR FIELDING PLAN IS A PHASED ROLL OUT WITH FULL ISSUE TO BE COMPLETED IN 3 YEARS. PLEASE REFER TO THE FIELDING PLAN FOR DETAILS ON THE DISTRIBUTION. ALL CF CLOTHING STORES ARE TO SUPPORT THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE CCR IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FIELDING PLAN 
ALL LAND FORCE PERSONNEL, BOTH REGULAR AND RESERVE, WILL BE ISSUED A NEW CADPAT RAINSUIT. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FIELDING PLAN, DISTRIBUTION WILL BE DONE BASED ON ENTITLEMENTS AND A DETAILED FIELDING SCHEDULE. UNITS ARE TO NOTE THAT THERE WILL BE MIXED FLEETS OF THE 2-IN-1 RAINSUIT AND THE CCR FOR UP TO THREE YEARS. THE OG-107 IS THE INTERIM RAINSUIT UNTIL EACH UNIT COMES UP IN THE FIELDING PLAN 
THERE ARE TO BE NO, REPEAT NO, MODIFICATIONS TO THE NEW RAINSUIT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE REMOVAL OF THE REFLECTIVE STRIPS AND OR THE CUTTING OUT OF THE LINER 
THERE WILL BE NO EXCHANGE OF AF 2-IN-ONE RAINSUITS THAT ARE CURRENTLY HELD BY ARMY PERSONNEL FOR THE CCR. IF A 2-IN-1 IS DAMAGED AND RETURNED, IT WILL BE REPLACED WITH AN OG-107 RAINSUIT UNTIL THE ENTIRE ARMY HAS RECEIVED THE CCR AND THE STOCK IS BUILT UP AS PLANNED. THE MAINTENANCE CONCEPT FOR THE CCR IS ANNEX B TO THE FIELDING PLAN. DAMAGED RAINSUITS WILL NOT BE REPLACED, THEY WILL BE REPAIRED, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MAINTENANCE PLAN 
QUESTION ON THE FIELDING PLAN WITH RESPECT TO OUTCAN AND OR SMALL MISSIONS MAY BE ADDRESSED TO LCOL C.A. BRADDON, ARMY G34, VIA YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND 
SIGNED LGEN A.B.LESLIE, CLS


----------



## Fishbone Jones (27 Jul 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 134/09 CLS 026/09 211450Z JUL 09
> DISTRIBUTION OF CONVERGED CADPAT RAINSUIT (CCR)
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> ...



Already posted two pages back


----------



## TN2IC (28 Jul 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  Well, not to throw gas on a fire here, but I am sure the Army folks will be glad to hear they issued atleast 1 person I know at 12 Wing the new CCR.  I had assumed that the Air Force has issued out all of its 2-in-1 suits and was now giving out the CCR.
> 
> You'll be even happier to know he is a 500-series type on PAT until sometimes in '10.



Just tried again here at 12 Wing and got shot down again. Go army..


----------



## 421 EME (3 Sep 2009)

We just got our raingear issued last week  .   But before even half of the forces have been issued there is one forsale on the  > EVIL EBay >

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Brand-New-GENUINE-CADPAT-Rain-Jacket-Size-7044_W0QQitemZ170378049578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item27ab52b82a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

How the hell does this guy get his hands on this stuff?


----------



## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2009)

I got my issue of the Army raingear.... turned out it was CCR Pants with a 2 in 1 jacket. Still happy to have something that is actually waterproof, but I guess I'm stuck with my stealth jacket if the 2in1 rips in the field.


----------



## COBRA-6 (3 Sep 2009)

421 EME said:
			
		

> We just got our raingear issued last week  .   But before even half of the forces have been issued there is one forsale on the  > EVIL EBay >
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Brand-New-GENUINE-CADPAT-Rain-Jacket-Size-7044_W0QQitemZ170378049578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item27ab52b82a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
> 
> How the hell does this guy get his hands on this stuff?



Thievery?


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Sep 2009)

So, despite "operational troops" and "high readiness units on notice to move" (being both myself) being a priority for issue of the CCR, I was still unable to have one issued to me today at good old CFSU(O) Clothing Stores.   :


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> So, despite "operational troops" and "high readiness units on notice to move" (being both myself) being a priority for issue of the CCR, I was still unable to have one issued to me today at good old CFSU(O) Clothing Stores.   :



They just did their jobs. A read of the entire CCR fielding plan (including it's annexs) will reveal that there are specific dates for each Operational Unit indicated for issue. If your Unit's date has not arrived, you won't get it yet. The first operational Units on the list are those where the soldiers (even when not deployed) are actually working in a field enviornment - not the applic in NDHQ. As well, CTC schools are very high on the list as they (and their candidiates) work in a field enviornment (ie outside a building) for the majority of the time. Pers employed in HQs and Army pers serving with other enviornments come after all those operational troops.

If you are NTM as an individual within your Unit (ie your entire Unit is not on NTM), then the "Units on NTM" statement is not applicable. Pers who are only only "standby" or "backup" will be issued their CCR as soon as they are officially slated to actually deploy - vice standby.

I don't have access to the DIN to pull up the schedule that lists the issue dates for all Army Units, so I can't even forecast when you will get yours ... but 2 RCR only just got theirs ... you've got quite a while to wait yet. I do believe the dates for the rest of Gagetown were circa June 2010.


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

COBRA-6 said:
			
		

> Thievery?



And, he's making a small fortune with his stolen goods too. From Toronto --- only selling one each of pretty much every kit item --- INCLUDING cadpat AR. 

http://myworld.ebay.ca/save_more_sport_store/

Any of the Res F Units (or ASU pers) in that area have a proliferation of thefts of other troops' kit lately? I think I know where it is ...


----------



## Nfld Sapper (29 Sep 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> They just did their jobs. A read of the entire CCR fielding plan (including it's annexs) will reveal that there are specific dates for each Operational Unit indicated for issue. If your Unit's date has not arrived, you won't get it yet. The first operational Units on the list are those where the soldiers (even when not deployed) are actually working in a field enviornment - not the applic in NDHQ. As well, CTC schools are very high on the list as they (and their candidiates) work in a field enviornment (ie outside a building) for the majority of the time. Pers employed in HQs and Army pers serving with other enviornments come after all those operational troops.
> 
> If you are NTM as an individual within your Unit (ie your entire Unit is not on NTM), then the "Units on NTM" statement is not applicable. Pers who are only only "standby" or "backup" will be issued their CCR as soon as they are officially slated to actually deploy - vice standby.
> 
> I don't have access to the DIN to pull up the schedule that lists the issue dates for all Army Units, so I can't even forecast when you will get yours ... but 2 RCR only just got theirs ... you've got quite a while to wait yet. I do believe the dates for the rest of Gagetown were circa June 2010.



CFSME got theirs via advanced issue earlier this summer and I believe general issuse to the rest of CFB/CTC GAGETOWN is to be next month.


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Sep 2009)

Ah, Vern, I knew you'd be on here to correct me sooner or later.   

So what about personnel who are deploying?  Because I am, next month.


----------



## PuckChaser (29 Sep 2009)

Unless its changed, you should get AR Raingear when you clear into NSE Clothing in KAF. That's where I got mine. I always thought it wierd deploying troops were getting TW raingear, only to have it sit in a Barrack Box for 7 months until they got home.


----------



## Jammer (29 Sep 2009)

Why would you take the TW stuff with you anyway when everyone was told they would be getting the AR in theater?


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Sep 2009)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Unless its changed, you should get AR Raingear when you clear into NSE Clothing in KAF. That's where I got mine. I always thought it wierd deploying troops were getting TW raingear, only to have it sit in a Barrack Box for 7 months until they got home.



I hear ya.  I hope they've improved the AR rain gear since the last time I wore it.  Maybe I should pack my OD stuff, just in case.  Chances are, we won't have time to clear in.

Jammer, when I went in 2005, we took our OD rain gear with us.  Good thing we did because we handed in the AR gear over a month before the end of the tour so it could be issued to the new people coming in.


----------



## Jammer (29 Sep 2009)

I was issued the original plastic AR stuff in 04..that stayed in my BB 'til the end of the tour.


----------



## PuckChaser (29 Sep 2009)

I had the Gen 2 gortex raingear in 07-08, had the sleeve pockets but no nametag or velcro on the sleeve pockets. Fingers crossed you'll get the Gen3 stuff with all the bells and whistles, Moe.


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Sep 2009)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I had the Gen 2 gortex raingear in 07-08, had the sleeve pockets but no nametag or velcro on the sleeve pockets. Fingers crossed you'll get the Gen3 stuff with all the bells and whistles, Moe.



Yeah, for a whopping 35-45 days.   ;D



			
				Jammer said:
			
		

> Why would you take the TW stuff with you anyway when everyone was told they would be getting the AR in theater?



Guess I should have added, I am on a high readiness team (72 hrs NTM) to deploy anywhere, not just A'stan.


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> CFSME got theirs via advanced issue earlier this summer and I believe general issuse to the rest of CFB/CTC GAGETOWN is to be next month.



CTC mext month, and remainder of Gagetown's 1st Line Operational Units who haven't been converted yet over the next few months.

3ASG etc ... next year.


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Ah, Vern, I knew you'd be on here to correct me sooner or later.
> 
> So what about personnel who are deploying?  Because I am, next month.



Are you simply on NTM? Or do you actually have your message - start date etc and CFTPO posn number?

Deploying on a tour ... or going on a TAV?


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Sep 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Are you simply on NTM? Or do you actually have your message - start date etc and CFTPO posn number?



Always on 72 hrs NTM.  Always have a CFTPO.  Message presently being held by CEFCOM but do have dates for _this_ tasking.



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Deploying on a tour ... or going on a TAV?



Yes, _this_ tasking is a TAV.  Requested by TFA.


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Always on 72 hrs NTM.  Always have a CFTPO.  Message presently being held by CEFCOM but do have dates for _this_ tasking.
> 
> Yes, _this_ tasking is a TAV.  Requested by TFA.



Then contact the IC Clothing there (via email), provide your CFTPO number and TAV dates along with your sizes; the IC will fire it off to CTS who will then determine whether or not "that" particular TAV/CFTPO # is being issued (ie is yet entitled to) the raingear; if they are - then CTS will have the SM cut an issue instr to 25 CFSD to ship a set out under your SN (unless, of course, Clot NCR [in Asticou now I believe??] is holding an Op stock from which they can issue to you provided CTS authorizes it is IAW scale for your particular CFTPO). 

There are some TFA items os Scale which specificly state things like: No entitlment for TAVs, SIVs, SAVs. Authorized entitlement only for pers deploying over 60/90 days .. etc etc


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Sep 2009)

Thanks, Vern.  I already contacted the I/C Clothing but hadn't received a reply at end of day.

It's not just this tasking I am concerned about.  Obviously, TW rain gear is not required in the Sand Box.  We are just trying to get things straightened out for future taskings, wherever they may be.  This one has been a bit of an eye-opener for the team regarding training requirements, etc.

I'm pretty sure they hold operational stock here as we always have people deploying.


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Thanks, Vern.  I already contacted the I/C Clothing but hadn't received a reply at end of day.
> 
> It's not just this tasking I am concerned about.  Obviously, TW rain gear is not required in the Sand Box.  We are just trying to get things straightened out for future taskings, wherever they may be.  This one has been a bit of an eye-opener for the team regarding training requirements, etc.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they hold operational stock here as we always have people deploying.



Pas de problème mon amie.

Things are much easier when one's Unit deploys or one is actually part of TFA. 

When individuals deploy for TAVs - it is the CFTPO number/posn that decides the outcome of entitlments and we must forward your CFTPO posn number with a message demand to CTS to obtain kit for you. CTS then considers exactly "where" that posn is deploying to (different AORs and tours have different scales of entitlement), for how long, and then authorizes (or doesn't OR even partially authorizes) the SM to cut the iss instr for whatever kit.

I am a FIRM believer in the "One man - One kit" _utopian dream_. Each and every soldier, sailor, airman/woman be issued ALL their kit items (Operational, Domestic, AND domop related) immediately upon successful completion ofQL3 etc. Those pers then retain these items for their ENTIRE career; coming in to see me only when they need an exchange done etc.

We'd save millions (enough to actually BUY every man their own FULL kit!!) just in Adm, handling and PY costs. I am so sick and tired of issuing out TFA kit to an individual for tour, taking it back from him 7 months later when he returns to Canada, issuing it all out to him again the next year so he can deploy yet again, taking it back at the end of that tour ... then having him back for full issue yet a third time (a mere 10 months after that!) ... sigh. Not to mention the friggin' shipping charges we are incurring moving the same stuff time after time from one mounting area, to another, to another, then back to the original spot again ...

Cripes - we could even incur many-more-millions in savings by reducing infrstructure because we'd no longer have to store this stuff on huge scales at either the national level or the local levels (when mounting) because everyone of us would already have it! 

And then as an added bonus!! --- if/when the shit ever does hit the fan here in good ol' Canada (or let's say, a dom op to a forest fire, flood, or even donut hole snow shovelling, OKA revisted etc) should occur on NO notice - we wouldn't be scrambling to kit people to go because we'd already have it!! Whoooo!! We might actually "make" a 24 hr movement of personnel actually happen.

What a concept.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (29 Sep 2009)

Any reason the clothing system is set up to be so bureaucratic, rigid and costly? You can't be the only one that has voiced your concerns about how badly managed the whole clothing entitlement process is.


----------



## armyvern (29 Sep 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Any reason the clothing system is set up to be so bureaucratic, rigid and costly? You can't be the only one that has voiced your concerns about how badly managed the whole clothing entitlement process is.



Because our current generation of op kit is considered controlled.

Not all clothing is like this.


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## PuckChaser (30 Sep 2009)

At the recent LFCA Comd Townhall in Kingston, the IC Clothing brought up this question about shortages of kit. The Comd stated that the powers that be were really good with getting big ticket items like tanks and LAVs, but really dropped the ball when it came to personally kit. He stopped short of swearing, but said it was BS that every soldier does not have their own kit, and apparently steps are being taken to procure the appropriate levels of kit and op stock for everyone, but civvie industry takes time to ramp up.


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## armyvern (30 Sep 2009)

Buying enough kit for everyone _deploying_ does not necessarily equal _enough_ kit for every member of the CF (or even the Army). Nor does it equal the one man - one kit - retain for duration of your career dream. <--- If there's a move on to do that, then those of us who attend Army Op Clothing WGs and conferences missed it.


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## PMedMoe (30 Sep 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I am a FIRM believer in the "One man - One kit" _utopian dream_. Each and every soldier, sailor, airman/woman be issued ALL their kit items (Operational, Domestic, AND domop related) immediately upon successful completion ofQL3 etc. Those pers then retain these items for their ENTIRE career; coming in to see me only when they need an exchange done etc.



I totally agree.  As a matter of fact, I won't be turning in the kit issued to me, because I will remain in this high-readiness position until I am posted....   :-\


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## COBRA-6 (30 Sep 2009)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The Comd stated that the powers that be were really good with getting big ticket items like tanks and LAVs, but really dropped the ball when it came to personally kit.



No, we pretty much suck at everything. Buying fighting vehs without the required support variants, multiple orphan fleets, not enough vehs for the job resulting in constant Whole Fleet Management... etc etc. It's so depressing that this insanity has made its way down to the pers kit items like rucksacks. 

We end up spending more incrementaly because of all the points Vern listed than the initial capital outlay required to buy enough for all. Then there is the bonus of actualy having the kit before a short fuse task or operation, reducing the road to high readiness, etc...


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## Infanteer (30 Sep 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I am a FIRM believer in the "One man - One kit" _utopian dream_. Each and every soldier, sailor, airman/woman be issued ALL their kit items (Operational, Domestic, AND domop related) immediately upon successful completion ofQL3 etc. Those pers then retain these items for their ENTIRE career; coming in to see me only when they need an exchange done etc.
> 
> Cripes - we could even incur many-more-millions in savings by reducing infrstructure because we'd no longer have to store this stuff on huge scales at either the national level or the local levels (when mounting) because everyone of us would already have it!



Amen!

I'm also in the camp of "all your issued gear should fit into the barrack boxes you are issued".


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## COBRA-6 (30 Sep 2009)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I'm also in the camp of "all your issued gear should fit into the barrack boxes you are issued".



Then they'll just make a larger MOB!


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## PMedMoe (30 Sep 2009)

The WO at Clothing emailed back today and said if I submitted my sizes they would order it but no guarantee it would arrive before the tasking.  Good enough, in my books.  How's that for a happy ending?   ;D

Just out of curiosity, anyone know what the size scale is like (besides too big or too small)?  I sent the WO my combat sizes, thinking hoping they would be the same.


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## ajp (30 Sep 2009)

Seems to nme they used my shirt and pant size to order and the Jacket is perfect.  Pants are still in the bag.


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## PuckChaser (30 Sep 2009)

My jacket is the same size number as my combat shirt, and it fits fine. I may try to get a little bit of a bigger size, as I doubt I can fit my fleece underneath.


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## armyvern (30 Sep 2009)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Amen!
> 
> I'm also in the camp of "all your issued gear should fit into the barrack boxes you are issued , which themselves should be of an appropriate size actually allowing them to be accepted for military and civilian methods of transport, Also too, it'd be nice if they actually fit into the trunk of one's POMV.".



 8)

Who came up with these MoBs anyway? I laughed my ass off (but felt so sorry for) one of the troops we had just kitted as he (& some of my staff) attempted to cram one of these into his trunk (to no avail) - finally settling upon strapping it up on the roof of his car. 

Air Canada too is just awesome at charging the troops using their services oversized baggage fees and overweight baggage fees when travelling to/from courses taskings etc. I wonder how much these fees are draining from our budget each year due to a poorly thought out design? cripes, I think the MoB is overweight as soon as you put just two t-shirts to it.


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## COBRA-6 (30 Sep 2009)

The MOB should be inter-modal PLS-compatible. Trying to lift one yourself when actually full is a recipe for a med cat.


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## Bzzliteyr (1 Oct 2009)

Which begs: have UCRs been sent in on this item?  I don't have one yet (thank gosh!!) but I think this needs to be dealt with ASAP if it is something that was badly thought out.


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## PMedMoe (1 Oct 2009)

Regarding MoBs, are we still allowed to use barrack boxes or would that throw a wrench into the loading of kit on aircraft?


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (1 Oct 2009)

Are the MOBs forced upon those still with 3 x barrack boxes? I guess the only good thing about the MOBs is the inline wheels and collapsible handle? Probably better just to find collapsible/portable luggage dollies and strap 'em onto the barrack boxes. 

This waterproof/dustproof thing that the MOB offers - has it proven to be an absolute necessity? And the padding? Off topic from the raingear, but since it came up...


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## NL_engineer (2 Oct 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I hear ya.  I hope they've improved the AR rain gear since the last time I wore it.  Maybe I should pack my OD stuff, just in case.  Chances are, we won't have time to clear in.
> 
> Jammer, when I went in 2005, we took our OD rain gear with us.  Good thing we did because we handed in the AR gear over a month before the end of the tour so it could be issued to the new people coming in.



The rain gear issued in theater is the exact same as the new one home (except in AR).  My TW rain gear is sitting in KAF, and has been since April  :  It was a waste of space like many other items (green Tac Vest).

The MOB is overweight (by Air Canada standards) empty, but it does a good job of keeping dust off the stuff I have inside it. 

edited to add

Vern, do we keep the MOB's or turn them in when we get home?


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## armyvern (2 Oct 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Are the MOBs forced upon those still with 3 x barrack boxes? ...



Hmmm, interesting question.

Thing is - you are only entitled to 3 X barrack boxes (of any combo Mob/old style) when deployed on  an operation. Turning in that 3rd barrack box should occur within 30 days of your return from theatre as part of the AAG your Unit is supposed to complete. This is when any of your deployment specific kit not taken back in-theatre is supposed to be returned by you to clothing stores - including the extra(s) BBs/MoBs you are holding over-entitlement: Yes, I know - if there actually was enough kit in the system for every soldier to have "one man - one kit" for their career -including deployment kit- there would be no need to do this, but currently ... there isn't enough nor does the scale of entitlement authorize you to retain those extras.

If you're RegF, and holding 3 old style - the message recalling your extras [1 - leaving you 2] is less than two years old. ResF had to return all but one due to the recall message. Some people/Units ignored it --- that's why some people_ still _ can't get a single barrack box.  

For RegF pers, they are currently allowing 1 MoB and 1 X BB, or 2 X MoB (*not* 2 X BB but no MoB) to be retained per pers to = their entitlement, but as the BBs that still are in the system go NS, they will not be replaced - eventually leaving nothing but MoBs.


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## COBRA-6 (2 Oct 2009)

The nice thing about the MOBs being waterproof is that they're large enough to function as an improvised canoe, or you can lash two together with an A7A strap together to make a raft, therefore we can divest the assault boats. DLR is trialing a modified electric trolling motor that would double the speed and range, and can be recharged with solar pannels.


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## George Wallace (2 Oct 2009)

COBRA-6 said:
			
		

> The nice thing about the MOBs being waterproof is that they're large enough to function as an improvised canoe, or you can lash two together with an A7A strap together to make a raft, therefore we can divest the assault boats. DLR is trialing a modified electric trolling motor that would double the speed and range, and can be recharged with solar pannels.



Why stop at lashing two together.  Lash the BGs together and make a bridge.........Crap.....just gave the Chinese an idea.....


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## COBRA-6 (2 Oct 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Why stop at lashing two together.  Lash the BGs together and make a bridge.........Crap.....just gave the Chinese an idea.....



MOB pontoon bridge? Just might work...


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