# What if ?  Debate On Whether Canada Could Stop an Invasion



## MAJOR_Baker (31 Mar 2004)

Say, I was wondering do you think in fifty years a european country (or super state) might shift their focus back to the North American continent?

Europe thinking a recent Isolationist America (after being tired of kicked around by the UN) would not have the stomach to do anything.   Do you think Canada could stop an invasion by a european?


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## chrisf (31 Mar 2004)

Um, we‘re sort of getting ready to do that now... Denmark has recently attempted to claim Hans island (Canadian territory) by planting a flag and creating a military presence...

Personally, I think the best bet would to have the military issue ME a lawn chair and a dozen beer. I‘d go sit on Hans island and hold up my middle finger.


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## Ex-Dragoon (31 Mar 2004)

Nah we would freely welcome our  socialist European brethern and allow them to use our soil to conduct offensive operations against the Capitalist Yankees.


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## bossi (31 Mar 2004)

To answer the original question ("Do you think Canada could stop an invasion by a european?")
I think we could kick Lichtenstein‘s butt ... but after that ... hmmm ... we‘d probably need reinforcements from the submarine fleet at the West Edmonton Mall ... 

And, oh dear - wouldn‘t repelling an invasion force violate their rights under our Charter?
Oh, my - that would be so ... so ... mean - we‘d just have to set up processing centres on their beachhead in order to process all their claims for social assistance - after all, invading is such a traumatic experience - the poor dears would need to receive Canadian compensation payments for all the bother we put them through ...

There have been some interesting novels written on this topic - written during the Cold War, they envisioned a world where the USSR and USA had nuked each other and then the surviving European nations (who "wisely" had hung back in the shadows) rolled in and claimed the spoils ...

Having said all that - hockey is "war on ice", and good old Canadian boys (and girls) love to kick Euro trash butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bring it on ...
We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them in the streets, but we shall never, never surrender in the hockey rink!


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## Danjanou (31 Mar 2004)

Bossi you slay me. Thanks I needed that. 

Excuse while I go out and start setting up those Eurotrash processing centres now. 

"Ok folks in an orderly manner proceed through all the lines alphabetically Twice, once in each official language

Line A Social Assistance cheque
Line B Free Health care and OHIP card
Line D Subsidized housing
Line D Free Higher education
Line E Direct access to your MPP/MLA/MP with bitching rights and a free copy of the Charter to wave around.

Ooops sorry you now all have to go through Lines F through W to register your assault rifles, SMGs, MBTs, mortars etc. Sorry this is Canada and we do have rules even for barbarian invaders."


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## pte anthony (31 Mar 2004)

I think we could repel an attack from a europeon super state but with high casualities due to the  need for more funding to increase overall troop presence and upgrade or buy new equipment (attack choppers, more armour, artillery etc.) to support and assist on repelling the invader. Although the good ol United States of America super power to the south wouldn‘t turn down the chance to help out its needy and often ridiculously passive hippy neighbor  especially if it gave em a chance to woop Britians *** again


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## Spr.Earl (31 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Danjanou:
> [qb] Bossi you slay me. Thanks I needed that.
> 
> Excuse while I go out and start setting up those Eurotrash processing centres now.
> ...


You forgot the Multi. Cult hand out‘s line.


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## Danjanou (1 Apr 2004)

No I didn‘t what do you think lines X,Y,&,Z were for.

Actually as far fetched as this scenario is, I‘m eagerly awaitng the Tom Clancy or Larry Bond techno thriller based on it. I want to se how they or anyone deals with that 4,000 odd miles over the Atlantic Ocean supply line. Hey even our leaky subs could have a field day.


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## Gunnar (1 Apr 2004)

Sorta makes you think that Denmark has no respect for our ambassador, eh?  Oh, wait, he‘s back in Canada on CORRUPTION charges...do you think he sold Hans Island to them?


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Apr 2004)

Hmmmmm the coffee shops in Copenhagen were pretty good...maybe we can have a reverse invasion. We will start by setting on a Tim Hortons chain and then we will make our move.


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Apr 2004)

Yes but when the world thinks of Tim Hortons they don‘t think of the US of A. They think of Canada and despite its ownership but a US company it will remain tied to Canada.


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## Jason Bourne (5 Apr 2004)

Hmm...extra large french vanilla...


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## Michael Dorosh (5 Apr 2004)

Sherwood, in case you‘ve missed it in the last 60 years or so, Western Europe has left its wars of colonialism and internal feuding behind them.  Putting aside the lunatics in the former Yugoslavia, who are Eastern Europeans in any event, I should like to think that western Europe has advanced sufficiently in its thinking that their true strength is expressed via economic union, not military conquest.

Funny, the United States might want to start thinking along those lines themselves.  Free Trade with Mexico and Canada was a start. 

I rather think increased globalization will make military conquest, and even borders themselves, rather irrelevant.

Thinking about any western European nation embarking on wars for conquest is rather unimaginative and, frankly, smells of someone simply stirring the pot.

Perhaps America, too, will grow up a little and stop thinking of the world in terms of which government plants which flag on which square of land.

If anything, our largest challenges will be internal, and for the most part for the last 200 years, we‘ve solved those problems peacefully - Pierre Laporte and Oka notwithstanding.


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## brin11 (5 Apr 2004)

As said before:

we shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them in the streets, and if that doesn‘t work we shall pummel them with Timbits.


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## winchable (5 Apr 2004)

From what I hear all the Timbits (Muffins and donuts as well) are coming in frozen from Ontario, that could turn them into some pretty lethal projectiles if you live on the coasts.

Actually has anyone else heard that or is it just rumor? I have noticed a decrease in the size of the muffins as well as the donuts have this "new and improved" shriveled look.


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## brin11 (5 Apr 2004)

Che,

That had BETTER be a rumour, otherwise heads are going to roll!  Hmmm, maybe that‘s why there‘s never any strawberry filled......


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## winchable (6 Apr 2004)

It‘s the only thing I‘ve been hearing about timmy‘s lately! 

And honestly I thought it was rumor until the last time I went into a Timmys and ordered a baguette sandwich with turkey breast honey mustard and lettuce.

"we don‘t have baguettes"
"Okay white bread"
"all we have is brown"
"okay"
"we don‘t have any turkey breast, how about ham?"
"don‘t eat ham"
"Tuna?"
"No thanks I‘ll just go to subway"

I went in asking for a Turkey breast bageutte sandwich, and i was offered a tuna sandwich on brown bread!!!!
Like I said before the muffins have been cut down in size, and the donuts are shriveled! (although the donut thing is speculation, the muffin thing is certain)
I swear if their coffee wasn‘t liquid caffiene with just a hint of crack. . . .


haha wow you know you‘re Canadian when


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## brin11 (6 Apr 2004)

Honestly, their coffee is blessed golden liquid...drinking one now.  You see I was having this withdrawal problem as my last one was, oh, an hour ago!  Did you say only a hint of crack??

By the way, where did your signature go?  I was waiting for you to acknowledge my answer.

(oops edited the wrong msg, sorry.)
-Che-


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## winchable (6 Apr 2004)

THE CONSPIRACY GROWS:
   http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/6690   

Actually it‘s just an article a friend of mine wrote for her university newspaper, but type in "Frozen Tim Hortons" on Google, and discover for yourselves! edit-Just noticed this article is the first thing to pop up on google, that‘s just an eery coincidence.

I can say from personal experience that the Tim Hortons up the street from me used to be the baking center for most of the area I live in, the delivery truck was outside, and of course the bakers would often enjoy their 1AM smoke break on the steps outback. I haven‘t seen either the delivery truck or the bakers outside since the summer, that‘s when I started to believe the theories.

Well you know it‘s "The hint of Crack that keeps ‘em coming back."
I should write Tim Horton‘s slogans.

Edit(Good god I shouldn‘t be allowed around computers)-Spr. Earl got the reply to the signature joke a while back!
It goes:
"Have ye ever been ta sea jimmy?"
*in a high pitched voice* "No sir but I‘ve been blown ashore."


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## brin11 (6 Apr 2004)

LOL


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## winchable (6 Apr 2004)

Filthy, filthy sailors.  

Not to mention those **** moderators, always hijacking threads to talk about completely off-topic stuff.


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## alan_li_13 (6 Apr 2004)

I don‘t get it


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## SFontaine (6 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Just a Sig Op:
> [qb] Um, we‘re sort of getting ready to do that now... Denmark has recently attempted to claim Hans island (Canadian territory) by planting a flag and creating a military presence...
> 
> Personally, I think the best bet would to have the military issue ME a lawn chair and a dozen beer. I‘d go sit on Hans island and hold up my middle finger. [/qb]


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## spenco (6 Apr 2004)

nice one.


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## Thompson_JM (6 Apr 2004)

heh heh heh... Beauty!


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## Ex-Dragoon (6 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Che:
> [qb] From what I hear all the Timbits (Muffins and donuts as well) are coming in frozen from Ontario, that could turn them into some pretty lethal projectiles if you live on the coasts.
> 
> Actually has anyone else heard that or is it just rumor? I have noticed a decrease in the size of the muffins as well as the donuts have this "new and improved" shriveled look. [/qb]


Actually I heard that as well must have to do with Wendy‘s taking them over. Quality went down big time.


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## winchable (6 Apr 2004)

I heard that the Chinese are supposed to surpass America in alot of areas in the future,(?output..economy, anyone know?), I really don‘t remember.
All I remember are snippets from something on CNN, or one of those travel shows on OLN so I could be wrong; any truth to that?

That must make the US a little more then nervous, I mean imagine if the Chinese could get their 1 Billion plus strong act together.


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## Harris (6 Apr 2004)

New Flash!!!

It is true.  Tims no longer makes fresh doughnuts.  They are made in Ontario, 1/2 cooked, and sent frozen to stores across the country.  I actually wrote to them complaining and they responded with a form letter telling me that they had done a lot of surveys, the doughnuts were actually fresher now etc...  Bottom line, they are now frozen food, heated up in a microwave or such.


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## Gayson (7 Apr 2004)

I used to work at a tim hortons.

Donuts, bread, Bagels, Tim Bits all come pre made at a factory frozen.  The breads (bread and bagels) have always been this way, you can usually see them getting heated up in the oven at storefront.

Donuts are taken out of the freezer and put into an oven hidden in the back which is much like an easy bake oven, they are heated and than put out front.  Tim Hortons has done this to compete with Crispy Cream by having "fresher" donuts, if you can call it that.

Muffins come in the form of a mush in a bucket, if say you want to make some blueberry muffins, you scoop some blueberry muffin much into a muffin tray and heat it up in the oven out in store-front.

In the future you will be able to watch tim-horton employees glaze your donuts in storefront, evenpull them out of the oven cooked, but never frozen because they will be loaded into the wall mounted oven through a rear door. 

All of this is done to make their food appear fresh when it really is not.

Beverages haven‘t changed accept for the pops juices (the ice tea and punch) which is bottled / canned because of inconsistancies with carbonation in tap drink.


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## brin11 (7 Apr 2004)

Pte. Gayson,

How do they make the filled donuts with the powdered sugar on the outside?  Can you freeze those too?


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## Danno (7 Apr 2004)

Oh, good question...


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## Gayson (11 Apr 2004)

They come frozen and empty.

They heat them up.

Ever notice the hole on the side?  That is where it is filled, they use a machine that fills 2 donuts, muffins or timbits at once.  You stab the donut with this spike tube, like a very big syringe and press the "fill" donut, the amount of filling is preset.

Than they take the filled donut and dip it in a container of that white sugar crap.

Donuts come different frozen flavors

If I remember right they are:

Cake: make old fashion donuts
White Cake fill:  All the fills like boston cream.
White Cake Ring: Chocolate / maple dip
Chocoloate Cake: Chocolate glazed / double choc dip
Sour Cream: Kind of obviouse
Cruller: Obviouse.


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## chk2fung (11 Apr 2004)

In terms of China‘s economy growing, it is definitely growing faster then any industrialized country in the world, right now it‘s economy is growing at an unsustainable 8%.  Consider all its human resources available and 8% is unsustainable. The US employment figures just came in last week and last year they had a net job growth of 308 000 which puts the job growth defecit for the bush administration at i believe 2 million, last month Canada had more job growth then the US, and Im talking net, not percentage.  George Bush the younger, will be the first president since Herbert Hoover to leave office with less jobs in the country then when he started, and remember Hoover was in office during the depression. By 2050 chinese economy, output will way surpass the US.  People think that maybe technology is actually starting take the jobs of ppl.That‘s economics from an engineering student!!!!

In regards to Tim Horton‘s, I‘m truly appalled, but  I will stay loyal, and not worship the Krispy Kreme.  Being from Oakville, the Timmy‘s headquarters, that news was widely debated.

Charles


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## Paul F (11 Apr 2004)

Well, getting back to the original question about a Western European country invading Canada. I think in order to keep the whole of Canada under control they would have to send one huge force since Canada is 30 million strong and one of the largest countries in the world. I know that I surely would take up arms and rather die fighting an invading force than accept a foreign government in power here in Canada, but I am probably in the minority since there are a lot of tree hugging hippies who just don‘t care who is in power.


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## Gayson (11 Apr 2004)

Assuming a country did want to invade, I think that atleast some of the other members of the commonwealth would come and help, unless it was the English invading.

As for Hans Island, I have not heard of that anywhere but here, I find it a little unsetteling that our sovereignty would bu so unimportant to the Canadian Media.

Frankly, if the Danish do take over that island with force, I think we should (The CF) go in and kick some ***.  Though this will most likely be solved diplomatically diplomatically.


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## brin11 (11 Apr 2004)

Pte. Gayson,

Thanks for the info.


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## Jason Bourne (11 Apr 2004)

Pte. Gayson..thats amazing. I used to at one point during my college career, singlehandidly keep Timmies afloat with my generous contribution; (EX lrg French Vanilla 20 box of assorted timbits) every morning). thanks for the info


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## Bert (11 Apr 2004)

In the last one hundred years, the geo-politics of the world has changed significantly.  In the next one hundred years, geo-politics will change again.  

I disagree with Michael Dorosh that countries or people in general have advanced beyond the application of military might or the desire to control.

Europe, particularily France, Germany, Britian, and Spain, and the reactions of eastern Europe have recently shown the individual/collective
co-operation and friction.  Europe has always been resource dependant and has looked elsewhere in the world for opportunities.  Its part of their history.  You will notice the histories of the USA, emergent China, and Russia and where these countries are placing their interests.  I‘ve taken trips to both Europe and China and opinions of ordinary people there are much different from ours.

Certainly Europe will seek a more dominant role in the world economically and politically.  The creation of the Euroforce suggests militarily or the ability to act in the future.  It will squeeze the US, intertwine with Russia, and watch China.  European and US foreign policy is not congruent.

Without a scenario, its difficult to seek how or why Europe in the next two decades would attack Canada or the US.  Given international trade and foreign ownership, they‘d have the ability to screw up the North American economies making a hard military venture pointless anyway.

NORAD and defense co-operation with the USA makes Canada a distastful country to attack.  A land invasion is certainly a vast undertaking especially in winter.  Water, oil, and natural resources here are not so important to make an attack imminent.  NORAD would be successful against a large attacking force.  The application of nukes around the world would make it all pointless.

If an attack came, it would be an economic disruption
made to be subtle against North America.  Drag down the economies, reduce military spending and development, tie up forces in the rest of the world by causing instability, and then gather control over North American politics.

Or made quickly by taking out or controlling command and control.  Interesting that Europe thru NATO has a good understanding of North American defense and how the US manages its military in war.

Thats IT!! I‘m throwing out all my Tom Clancy books.  Probably printed with delicious sugar coated just baked smell of Tim Hortons money.
MMmmmmmm... donuts.


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## Gayson (11 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Jason Bourne:
> [qb] Pte. Gayson..thats amazing. I used to at one point during my college career, singlehandidly keep Timmies afloat with my generous contribution; (EX lrg French Vanilla 20 box of assorted timbits) every morning). thanks for the info [/qb]


I bet, donuts these days in Ontario cost 80 cents after tax, it costs the store between 1 - 3 cents to make a donut due to the vast numbers they produce.  A Tim Hortons owner can easily be a millionaire due to the huge profit gains on the vasr number of product they sell.  The Tim Hortons I was at (or am just leaving) makes 8-10 grand gross a day, pays 1.5 m a year in payroll.


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