# Afghanistan, is it worth it- Cheating Spouse Thread



## theoldyoungguy (25 Aug 2008)

Well i just got back from TF 1-08. sent home couple weeks early due to finding out my wife had an affair while i was deployed, i was very destructive to say the least, so they sent me home.

Ive been home for several days and i cant help but feel my whole 6 months was a waste. My wife is unwilling to reconcile, and does not feel for me anymore. We had a perfect marriage before i left , and now theres nothing. So for anyone thinking about going on deployment ask yourself what you might be giving up because this sucks, and it was not worth it. Im headed down a pretty grim road, and i dont wish it on anyone. dont make my mistake. i thought this was something i had to experience and she should understand. however ill tell u what i experienced. i realised u can die over there. it is not cool, and there is no glory. Afghanistan is not fun... will i go back, probably but only because the one thing i had in my life that was worth anything is now gone. deploying does give some meaning to your life, and it has its moments, but think about what you could have back home, that is far more important. dont make my mistake.


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## Kat Stevens (25 Aug 2008)

If she was gonna go, she would have gone the next time you were on course, or exercise, or tasking.  Deployment was just the gap in the wire she needed to bolt.  Just an opinion of course, but I've seen it dozens of times.


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## aesop081 (25 Aug 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> If she was gonna go, she would have gone the next time you were on course, or exercise, or tasking.  Deployment was just the gap in the wire she needed to bolt.  Just an opinion of course, but I've seen it dozens of times.



Same here........


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## 1feral1 (26 Aug 2008)

patriot1112 said:
			
		

> Well i just got back from TF 1-08. sent home couple weeks early due to finding out my wife had an affair while i was deployed, i was very destructive to say the least, so they sent me home.
> 
> Ive been home for several days and i cant help but feel my whole 6 months was a waste. My wife is unwilling to reconcile, and does not feel for me anymore. We had a perfect marriage before i left , and now theres nothing. So for anyone thinking about going on deployment ask yourself what you might be giving up because this sucks, and it was not worth it. Im headed down a pretty grim road, and i dont wish it on anyone. dont make my mistake. i thought this was something i had to experience and she should understand. however ill tell u what i experienced. i realised u can die over there. it is not cool, and there is no glory. Afghanistan is not fun... will i go back, probably but only because the one thing i had in my life that was worth anything is now gone. deploying does give some meaning to your life, and it has its moments, but think about what you could have back home, that is far more important. dont make my mistake.



Hey Patriot, welcome to the Broken Heart Club.

6 days back from Iraq, the same happened to me. I did not have the oportunity to decompress from my tour, with the added trauma of my failed relationship it was a very rough ride. 7 yrs wasted.

You are not alone. I nearly went right off the rails, as the first 6 months were truly hell. Betrayal, lies, deception, breach of trust etc. You'll resettle and find a better woman when its the right time.

In time you'll reflect with happier thoughts of your tour.

Look at it this way, one door closes, another opens, the fuutre is yours, for you can now have the world by the balls, although for a while you'll feel it has you.

Best to talk about this with mates, and keep your chain of command informed, also do nott let it bottle up inside of you.

Personally, I had many deep conversations with Jack D, which was a stupid thing to do.

Hang in there Brother, you are not alone.


OWDU


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## Celticgirl (26 Aug 2008)

I don't mean this to sound harsh but it is better for you to find this out now (about your wife) than down the road. There are women out there who believe in fidelity regardless of time and distance - I am one of them. My boyfriend (now fiance) was deployed in Dec. 06 and I stayed the course. Now I am joining and looking at being away for about a year on training and I have faith that there will be no issues with infidelity on either side. 

You could not have known your wife was the cheating type, so don't beat yourself up over what she did. Furthermore, don't blame the mission because as others have suggested here, if not the tour, then it would have been a course or exercise or whatever...some folks just can't be alone for any length of time. I don't know why that is, but I suspect basic insecurity. Again, nothing to do with you. Your marriage may well have been perfect prior to your tour. However, there will be other tours in your career...other courses, etc. You need someone who isn't going to go running to the nearest warm body every time you go away.

There is better out there. Trust me on this. I know you are hurting right now, but on behalf of the females of the species, don't lose the faith completely. There are good, loyal women out there.


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## X-mo-1979 (26 Aug 2008)

I can understand your anger towards the military.It is not easy on families period.Many women cannot deal with a person they see on a week here and a week there.Some need security in their liefs that the army cannot provide,due to its nature.

A few thoughts

-She is not for you,no matter how much YOU loved her,she don't love you.
-every chick you've seen and said "man I wish I was single".....
-Now you can casual date,it makes it easier when their isn't someone you love saying goodbye.


I know deployment is hard on some families.My wife who is pregnant and our two yr old is having a rough time.

As for saying their is no honor,I disagree.I do it because someone HAS to.Look around society,not many would do what I do.
I do it for my two little ones,provide a example to them.I protect those who cannot protect themselves.I deploy to kill those who make this world a horrible place.I am a combat troop who can look my kids in the eye and know they will appreciate what we do for this country.

Sounds like your having a rough go.Hit the gym,keep busy,and train to be the best dam soldier you can be.Don't throw down a career for how your feeling right now.
Had a friend that this happened to a few years back,he is now re married to a MUCH better woman(looks,job,attitude,supportive) and couldn't believe he married such a gutter pig the first time around.


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## Gunnie (26 Aug 2008)

Okay, Patriot, you DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE, ok? How were you to know something like this would happen to you? She doesn't deserve you, you're better than her.

Here's how relationships are supposed to work: If you're happy, stay in. If you're not, GET OUT. And say it flat out, you know? Don't sneak behind somebody's back and punish them. SHe'll be forever known as the B**** who cheated on her husband while he was fighting a war. Not good for her, which she deserves. I understand your anger, hell I'd be angry too! But it's HER fault, NOT yours. All of my friends are in the military, and this has happened to 6 (count 'em SIX) of them, and I'm getting sick and tired of hearing these stories, it's just awful.  
SHE should have known that you're in the military, your job is tough, and it isn't like workin at IGA (no disrepect to people who work there, I'm just sayin...) She should have known that you'd be going away. My fiance is in the army, and he goes into the field, goes to another province for 5 weeks, goes down to the states, gets a week cut off from his summer leave, and doesn't get some long weekends, and you know what? I don't hold it against him. It's his JOB, so I know what he's going through.

Military wives/gfs/partners should know even before they start a relationship that this job is tough, and you're going to go away for periods at a time. It isn't your fault at all, Patriot, she obviously doesn't deserve someone as good as you.

So keep your chin up, take a deep breath, and know that you're much better. Don't for one second blame yourself, okay? Okay. I got your back, and don't worry, there's someone out there who will appreciate you for who you are, what you do.

Keep your chin up, hun 
Gunnie.

P.S.  I'll be thinkin of ya


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## Cpl4Life (9 Sep 2008)

I agree with Gunnie.  And I have to add that people who cheat SUCK!  Recently a (former) friend of my wife's is no longer her friend because she found out that this (former) friend was screwing one of her husbands co-workers.  And the water delivery boy.  And god knows who else.   Grosses me out just to think of how this chick could do that to her husband.


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## Cat (20 Sep 2008)

I see this daily at CFLRS except the other way around...soldiers or want-to-be soldiers or going -to-be soldiers cheating on their spouses and boyfriends and girlfriends. It really sickens me. It's not the spouses fault they're seeing a cheating,lying, imbicile....

I feel for you, but it's not your fault she's not good enough for you. I just hope that you do find someone who's worth your time who can prove to you that not all women are like that.

Best wishes.


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## shanesgirl (14 Jan 2009)

I know no one has replyed to this topic in quite sometime but reading the thread i had to respond.  Your wife was selfish and insecure, she showed you her true colors and you should count your self lucky you got out when you did, whats even worse is you two were probably together before you enlisted so she KNEW what to expect but made her choice regardless, I cant imagine anyone being so heartless and whats worse this happens regularly????  I am a military spouse and I pride myself in knowing  that HE knows I'd never leave him, because like that woman ( i use the term loosely)I knew exactly what was going to be expected of both of us.  He's not the only one who joined, when he signed those papers we became a military FAMILY.  You wil find some one better garenteed, dont let her actions jade you for the rest of your life.  And dont give up on this path, dont let her take this aways as well.


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## Cpl4Life (14 Jan 2009)

How are you doing patriot1112?  It's been six months now and I hope things are starting to get at least a bit easier for you.


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## theoldyoungguy (20 Jan 2009)

Cpl4Life said:
			
		

> How are you doing patriot1112?  It's been six months now and I hope things are starting to get at least a bit easier for you.



Ha ha. I would have thought this thread would have died out quite some time ago. If I remember correctly I wrote this in one of my many retardedly drunken nights.

In a nutshell I am doing very well. I've moved on with my life and am quite content. The ex has tried getting back together with me several times, and is still trying, to no avail. That chapter of my life is done and I'm very happy with that. That was one of the hardest things I have had top deal with, especially after coming back from Afghanistan and dealing with that crap as well. It was a tough time. However I believe now that it was all for the best. I feel like a lot stronger person, a little more cynical but very much stronger. Life is good, I'm happy to be alive, and I wake up every morning looking forward to my day. My glass is half full now, and no one or anything will change that for me ever again.


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## geo (20 Jan 2009)

Good for you Patriot.

Enjoy life - there are lots of good women out there - sample what's out there & make an informed decision next time.


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## helpup (20 Jan 2009)

Good to hear Patriot, I didn't comment on the original post as what was said pretty well sums up my outlook.  Glad to hear you moved on and hopefully the next love of your life is not the "it's about me " type.


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## AirCanuck (24 Jan 2009)

Not to repeat the above by helpup, but yeah - I never commented before because it had all been said, but I'm glad to hear you're doing well.  It's tragic that such women are out there, and more tragic still that military men so dedicated to their country seem to be so expert at meeting them.  Keep it up, glad to hear your glass is half full - just hopefully not, as you said about the first post, full of the Captain or our good friend Jack.
soldier on
AirCanuck


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## lyned (25 Jan 2009)

Sorry to hear about your situation Patriot. I remember hearing a few years ago that the divorce rate is higher for military members than truckers, which is high. I'm a military dad and a trucker. It takes a certain type of lady to put up with our professions: Independent. My wife grew up around the trucking business so she knew what she was getting into, with no regrets I'm happy to say. Like it's been stated earlier, unfortunately, it probably would have happened on tour, exercises, whatever sooner or later. Good luck in the future.


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## Bzzliteyr (26 Jan 2009)

Aircanuck, Devil's advocate here.

"It's tragic that such women are out there, and more tragic still that military men so dedicated to their country seem to be so expert at meeting them"

Don't forget there are lots of Army guys that play dirty as well, it's not just the wives that can be the badguys(girls?) in those cases.




edited for clarification.


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## AirCanuck (26 Jan 2009)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Don't forget there are lots of Army guys that play dirty as well, it's not just the wives that can be the badguys(girls?) in those cases.
> edited for clarification.



excellent point - believe me I think both are equally guilty.  I just feel like it's a special kind of treachery when someone is out fighting for their country.  Same with the guy who is willing to be with a soldier's wife - he's willing to let him  fight for him AND keep his wife warm at night - now there's a giver.

Anyway, point well taken.  I completely agree, I've seen both and as I said, I can't stand either.


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## 1feral1 (26 Jan 2009)

Hey Patroit, happy to see you are well on the mend.

Cheers,

Wes


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## theoldyoungguy (29 Jan 2009)

Ok well if this is being turned into the cheating spouse thread, does anyone have any horror stories they would like to share? This thread could turn into a really good support group. I know there must be quite a few. I'm not talking just spouse back in canada cheating. There were several soldiers I used to have a lot of respect for, and they cheated on their significant other when in cyprus, while their significant other was more than respectful and dutiful to them the entire tour.


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## PMedMoe (29 Jan 2009)

patriot1112 said:
			
		

> Ok well if this is being turned into the cheating spouse thread, does anyone have any horror stories they would like to share? This thread could turn into a really good support group. I know there must be quite a few. I'm not talking just spouse back in canada cheating. There were several soldiers I used to have a lot of respect for, and they cheated on their significant other when in cyprus, while their significant other was more than respectful and dutiful to them the entire tour.



Do we _really_ need to go there?  :


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## Bruce Monkhouse (29 Jan 2009)

No. There's enough 'trash-TV' shows for that sort of entertainment.

We don't need it here.


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## AirCanuck (29 Jan 2009)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> No. There's enough 'trash-TV' shows for that sort of entertainment.
> 
> We don't need it here.



Agreed.  Would seem more like a gossip-thread than a support group if we're searching for 'horror-stories'.  However if anyone NEEDS support from a similar incident rather than just sharing stories they've heard, I don't see any hurt in them searching for it here... thoughts?


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## PMedMoe (29 Jan 2009)

I believe that support (for anything) would be more beneficial in person (e.g. with your friends, family, etc) than online.  Just my opinion.  Why would someone search here for "cheating spouse" support?   ???


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## AirCanuck (29 Jan 2009)

some people find solace in the sense of community that can be found here - not to mention anonymity.


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## PMedMoe (29 Jan 2009)

Well, I'm sure there's all sorts of other forums for them to use.  I don't feel that it's appropriate here but I guess it's ultimately up to Mr. Bobbitt and/or the Mods.


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## Harley Sailor (29 Jan 2009)

I am not so sure it's the military men who are the ones find these women.  I know here in Halifax it is the women who hunt the sailors.  I know of a few who have gotten them selves a sailor, had a couple of kids with him and kicked him to the curb, all for his high child maintance payments.  My ex-wife being one of them.  I have even over heard her telling her friends that they should look into doing the same. "Sailors are gone half the time.  When they no longer go to sea you can get rid of them and keep half their pay"  At least one of her friends took her advice.


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## Bzzliteyr (29 Jan 2009)

I would fear, that as a small military community of about 60 - 70 000 we might actually find names/places/stories we recognize.  The anonymity of it all might not be there once the stories start flying.  Imagine reading about "some guy" and then realizing that you are hearing about your neighbour or friend whose wife cheated on him?

Harley Sailor, you quoted the wrong guy.


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## helpup (29 Jan 2009)

patriot1112 said:
			
		

> OK well if this is being turned into the cheating spouse thread, does anyone have any horror stories they would like to share? This thread could turn into a really good support group. I know there must be quite a few. I'm not talking just spouse back in Canada cheating. There were several soldiers I used to have a lot of respect for, and they cheated on their significant other when in Cyprus, while their significant other was more than respectful and dutiful to them the entire tour.



Not sure if that would be a good idea on this site or not. I know in my neck of the woods there are all kinds of examples of it from both men and women. I warned my wife when she came up here that the place is a bit of a Soap Opera in some aspects.  

I don't think I will go on too much more about this then add.  For every couple that has had a problem I know of many times more that do not have any problems.  "It takes two to make a marriage and usually two to break it, although One can always find a way to do it on their own.  But in that case that one is not The One you should of been with."


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## geo (29 Jan 2009)

Bzzz.... 
You shoulda seen it in West Germany - the minute the boys went into the field for fallex...... the Tide boxes in the kitchen window were the source of many a story.... many divorces....


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## theoldyoungguy (29 Jan 2009)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> No. There's enough 'trash-TV' shows for that sort of entertainment.
> 
> We don't need it here.



I guess "horror stories" was the wrong way to put it. I was trying to imply that if anyone had a story to share that they could do so. There are very many individuals who have been through this, and a lot might find some of the words of wisdom of those who have been through it a positive thing. It wasn'y my intention to make this a bashing thread or a thread to unload negative stories to make those in a specified community look bad. I started this thread as a rant. I don't know why I did it but what the hell, I had just got back, I was drunk, angry and hurt. The few minutes I had to write down what happened and the responses I recieved helped me, even if it was breifly. That leads me to believe now, that maybe instead of continuing as a ranting thread, there might be someone who has a story and needs some advice. Im not an admin, its not up to me but i thought it could be a good idea...


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## AirCanuck (29 Jan 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> Bzzz....
> ... the Tide boxes in the kitchen window were the source of many a story.... many divorces....



I don't get it?  Tide boxes?

I still agree with patriot.  It seems to me that many people here find a tight sense of community, of belonging, and I wouldnt' be surprised if many people here consider other members to be 'friends' without even meeting them.  This is why I think people here could easily find some comfort, as patriot did.


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## Harley Sailor (29 Jan 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> Bzzz....
> You shoulda seen it in West Germany - the minute the boys went into the field for fallex...... the Tide boxes in the kitchen window were the source of many a story.... many divorces....



Yes we had the same thing in Halifax PMQs..  I remember being a young adult in Halifax and heading for the Qs to see which ships were out.  Later after I joined up I had to stop doing that for fear of having a shipmate bringing me home and me knowing his wife.


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## 1RNBR (29 Jan 2009)

Tide boxes in the window was just a sneaky way of letting people know that your spouse was outta town for awhile, so it was like a welcome invite to anyone walking by.


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## Kat Stevens (29 Jan 2009)

In Germany it was "OMO" laundry soap... stands for "Old Man is Out".


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## helpup (29 Jan 2009)

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> I don't get it?  Tide boxes?



Ahh to be young again, it was already explained what the Tide Boxes were. But to add think of it like a sock or a neck tie on a door handle for a Dorm.  Or a red light on. It was a signal in this case to let those who were interested know that hubby or wife was away. From there it grew to other dimensions about putting unit stickers in a house, the Ace of Spades card and the list goes on.  The thing to remember though is the stories are rampant and for the most part a urban myth that covers a certain situation.  I have no doubt that there is some truth about that myth but not to the wide spread occurrence that is reported.  Mind you in describing a story of infidelity it would be embellished by the Tide Box.  

A point to patriot though is I do chat to my guys about giving power of Attorney to a young lady or someone they are only just getting into a relationship with Married or not.  Full access to all the money is another be carefull of.  And in saying this I am not saying leave her to fend for her ( or him ) self.  But every tour has a incidence of someone coming back to no money in the bank and in some cases no furniture in the house.


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## AirCanuck (29 Jan 2009)

1RNBR said:
			
		

> Tide boxes in the window was just a sneaky way of letting people know that your spouse was outta town for awhile, so it was like a welcome invite to anyone walking by.



geeze.  Some people.

As for no furniture in the house, no money.. what an awful shock that must be.


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## 4Feathers (29 Jan 2009)

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> geeze.  Some people.
> 
> As for no furniture in the house, no money.. what an awful shock that must be.



Many years ago now, but mine even took my dog, now that really hurt! My only point here is to not let that taint things in future relationships, sure it hurts but time heals and you move on. Inevitably you find your "true" love, and the hurt will just be a distant memory. Learning to trust again is the most difficult thing.


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## geo (29 Jan 2009)

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> geeze.  Some people.
> As for no furniture in the house, no money.. what an awful shock that must be.



You think that's bad ???

After the fiasco on the stock market last year:

My portfolio has shrunk by half.... 
.............. and I still have my wife!   :crybaby:


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## theoldyoungguy (29 Jan 2009)

helpup said:
			
		

> A point to patriot though is I do chat to my guys about giving power of Attorney to a young lady or someone they are only just getting into a relationship with Married or not.  Full access to all the money is another be carefull of.  And in saying this I am not saying leave her to fend for her ( or him ) self.  But every tour has a incidence of someone coming back to no money in the bank and in some cases no furniture in the house.



That is an excellent point, and one I advocate to the umpteenth degree. The fact that My ex didnt have access to my bank account or credit cards probably saved me thousands of dollers. Unless their is kids invovled there is little to no need for a significant other to have access to your finances. If the spouse needs money you can have an account transfer set up at the bank before you go on tour so that if the spouse does need money its as simple as a couple clicks of the mouse. That will protect you from getting cleaned out as well. That is the advice I got and it was probably the best advice I've ever been given and taken


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## chriscalow (30 Jan 2009)

This thread is helping me.  I'm on a tasking, and things at home with the missus isn't going good.  She has already admitted to making out with some dink at the bar (who knows how far it went)    wasnt even gone 2 weeks before it happened!  GRRRRRR!!!   we talked, and whatever i'm trying to deal with it.  i know she has been confused lately, some my fault, some hers, but it happened.  We are working things out best we can being so far apart, but i know she plans on going out this week and i'm so worried.  See i have depression, and some self esteem issues.. these cause me to be a jealous, and at times controlling freakshow.   I never even knew i was so bad.. i didnt even really know i had a problem,, i was too busy blaming everyone else.. anyway..

long story short... she wants to go out.. i'm not comfortable with it, because of what she has done, but i dont want to say much against it, because that will push her away further.  I love her, and deep down i know she loves me.. i'm just so far away.  its a 4 months tasking, not quite a deployment, but a long time away from home either way.. especially for our first time apart.  but being a tasking, not a tour, there isn't much for support. 

Im so frustrated, and scared. I dont want to lose her, but i cant let her walk all over me.  I'm getting help for my personal issues, but as far as the relationship, we aren't married, so i'm pretty much being told to cut her loose and to get over it.  ?????? I dont know.  This has been a bit of a rant/vent.. I do feel better getting it out though.  Thanks for reading.


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## Kat Stevens (30 Jan 2009)

This is going to seem harsh, but I really don't know any other way to put it.  You need to weigh your feelings against one thing.  If she can't manage to keep her knees together for four months, all the love and understanding in the world won't change that, and it won't get any better.   Whether you rant, rage, and forbid or not, she's still going to go if that's what's on her mind.  Sorry, but there it is.  And if she cant keep 'em together, that's not love, buddy.


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## Sub_Guy (30 Jan 2009)

Gumby said:
			
		

> She has already admitted to making out with some dink at the bar (who knows how far it went)
> 
> Im so frustrated, and scared. I dont want to lose her, but i cant let her walk all over me.  I'm getting help for my personal issues, but as far as the relationship, we aren't married, so i'm pretty much being told to cut her loose and to get over it.  ?????? I dont know.  This has been a bit of a rant/vent.. I do feel better getting it out though.  Thanks for reading.



Just my thought on this, she admitted to making out with some dink at the bar, was her way of dropping some guilt.  There is probably more to the story, but that is for you and her to discuss.  I would think that her admitting that she made out with some loser at the bar could be the cause of some of your jealous issues, but I am not Dr. Phil so I could be wrong. 

Clearly she f*cked up and you are right to be worried if she goes out again, so now you have a problem.  If you tell her how you feel and ask her not to go out, you could come across as jealous (that is the exact angle she is going to play on you, she will call you controlling and everything else, she will play on your low self esteem), if that happens she will either lie and go out anyway, or there is a slim chance she won't go out.

So what do you do?  Cut her loose, there are plenty of women out there.  Once you show that you are strong enough to make it without her, she might start taking you serious, but until then she will walk all over ya.


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## AUTHOR (30 Jan 2009)

if the spouse does that when your *over there* then they arent worth it, theres lots of people that would respect you for what your doing and wait for you.... karma will bite them later in life and you'll be in a better position for it.  sorry for your losses


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## 1feral1 (30 Jan 2009)

Gumby said:
			
		

> This thread is helping me.  I'm on a tasking, and things at home with the missus isn't going good.  She has already admitted to making out with some dink at the bar (who knows how far it went)    wasnt even gone 2 weeks before it happened!  GRRRRRR!!!   we talked, and whatever i'm trying to deal with it.  i know she has been confused lately, some my fault, some hers, but it happened.  We are working things out best we can being so far apart, but i know she plans on going out this week and i'm so worried.  See i have depression, and some self esteem issues.. these cause me to be a jealous, and at times controlling freakshow.   I never even knew i was so bad.. i didnt even really know i had a problem,, i was too busy blaming everyone else.. anyway..
> 
> long story short... she wants to go out.. i'm not comfortable with it, because of what she has done, but i dont want to say much against it, because that will push her away further.  I love her, and deep down i know she loves me.. i'm just so far away.  its a 4 months tasking, not quite a deployment, but a long time away from home either way.. especially for our first time apart.  but being a tasking, not a tour, there isn't much for support.
> 
> Im so frustrated, and scared. I dont want to lose her, but i cant let her walk all over me.  I'm getting help for my personal issues, but as far as the relationship, we aren't married, so i'm pretty much being told to cut her loose and to get over it.  ?????? I dont know.  This has been a bit of a rant/vent.. I do feel better getting it out though.  Thanks for reading.



Welcome to the broken heart club!

Shagging another bloke 2 wks into your tour! Thats a shocker!

Mine gave me the flick 6 days back from Iraq and left me for a woman!!! My story is in this thread somewhere. 7 yrs wasted, however I am with a hot chick now, a much better woman and a complete and total deviant at that too  ;D

Having someone else say 'get over it' is, well, talk is cheap, and getting over a loss is not easy (espeically if you are away), it takes time, with a roller coaster of emotions. Just remember, you are not alone.

Hang in there

OWDU


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## helpup (30 Jan 2009)

For mine she was on tour with me, we were just starting to get into a very serious ( or so I thought ) relationship, prior to the tour and she departed a couple of weeks ahead of me.  As luck would have it we were in the same camp.  Well didn't she turn out to have a Bi-polar issue. Complete about face once I got there and it threw me for a loop. ( in the worse way that someone can do it to me, just ignored me. )  I did the depression thing, took up running and a month into the tour I was doing 22 km runs every sunday and 5 of the other days variable intensity running.  That kept my depression at bay ( I would highly recommend using natural endorphins over medical prescriptions any day) Anyhow My Karma took hold she got caught with a married guy in the back of a vehicle and the whole mess got busted as he sent a email meant for her back to his wife by accident.  Can you say BUSTED.  I still had allot of her stuff at my place and still she would not talk to me.   ( silly girl ) Almost a year after the tour she calls asking if I could send her stuff to a Friend of hers who would pick it up.  I explained how her stuff is no longer with me as I had kept it for about 8 months and got tired of storing it.  Called her on some of the lies about she tried to get in contact with me about it and basically told her to have a nice life. 

As for me. A couple of Ladies later I did meet the one who is about ready to have our 1st child.  She outranks me ( Mo Money ) and is the most compatible person I have ever been with in my life.  

I have to add.  I tend not to judge people for being the right or wrong of a relationship. Men and Women are both equally guilty in the affairs of the body or heart.  And I have known people who include the extra Martial activities and continue to be happy together. My big thing is don't lie about it. If you have to lie about it then you shouldn't be doing it.  Don't have a double standard.  If it is OK for you to go and get a Crse Wife then don't be shocked or want to " Kill" if she does.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (30 Jan 2009)

Three things I told myself I would change for my next relationship after my ex common law wife and I split:

1. I will not lie.  Lying is hard and takes a lot of energy out of a person, trust me.

2. I will not cheat.  That kind of goes hand in hand with point 1 as it leads to lying and covering up which drains valuable resources you should be dedicating to the relationship.  And having seen what it does to a person, don't think I would want that to ever happen again.

3. Share your feelings.  You know how in every relationship, you significant other does one thing that gets on your nerves but you don't say anything then finally explode about it?  Don't do that!! Tell him/her the first time it happens (ie. "honey, when you put your feet on the coffee table, it irritates me") and then they know how it makes you feel.  It does not oblige them to change what they are doing but allows them to adjust it or not to make you happy.  I am talking about basic things, not overly extravagant things like "honey, when you don't give me all the money in your bank account, I get upset".  Oh, an be respectful of them when they do the same.  Discussion is a big factor here, people don't like to hurt other people's feelings but what hurts more, a small request or a big explosion ?

Which brings me to this.  I recently met a lovely lady and we fell "in love".. it was a great thing but had only been for a couple of months.  She avoided telling people about me cause she had recently broken up with her ex and didn't want people to think it was a rebound thing.. or so I thought, turns out she pulled a number 1 and 2 on me!!

Go figure, I reform then fall in love with a girl that hasn't!!  Karma is a pain in the a$$!!


----------



## helpup (30 Jan 2009)

Lying is not only hard and can take energy.  It is also more difficult to remember consistently then telling the truth.  And lets face it women are very very very good at holding entire conversations in a vault and able to recall the minutia about the littlest detail at a moments notice in the future. 

For me Karma works.


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## Harley Sailor (30 Jan 2009)

No one has looked at the other side of the coin...  If she strays while you are away, it gives you permission to do the same...  We are by nature a pack animal... It is only our good christian up bring that has told us that we have to be monogamous... After loosing my kids because my wife cheated on me I now look at life a whole different way... I now discuss it with my girlfriends and they know I will stray while I am away... They also know they can as well... Neither of us stray while we are together...  What works for some does not always work for others...  It is hard to stray for the teaching of our parents, but we have done so in other things and lived...


----------



## lovinmysapper (30 Jan 2009)

Hey Guys
On behalf of the female gender I apologize for the hurt you have been through ESPECIALLY whilst deployed ....the nerve....grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
My guy has been gone since June and returns April... I have been 100% faithful I Love, Respect, Admire, and Adore this man being in the sandbox is a scary time for both of us and the last thing that anyone ever needs is a cheating ass either at home or on deployment ... I do not know why people cheat.... Karma is always gonna sneak up and bite you in the butt!!!!! and then some....... 
Seriously guys if your woman (cant call her a lady) cheated on you while you were in a WAR trust me she is gonna do it while your at Tim Hortons!
AND please remember there really are good "ladies" out there... the part that bugs me is this: after you have been cheated on the mistrust is thrown onto the next lady until its resloved .... friggin Cheaters!!!!!
PHEWWWW I feel better now !!!! LOL  :
Cheers


----------



## helpup (30 Jan 2009)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> No one has looked at the other side of the coin...  If she strays while you are away, it gives you permission to do the same...  We are by nature a pack animal... It is only our good christian up bring that has told us that we have to be monogamous... After loosing my kids because my wife cheated on me I now look at life a whole different way... I now discuss it with my girlfriends and they know I will stray while I am away... They also know they can as well... Neither of us stray while we are together...  What works for some does not always work for others...  It is hard to stray for the teaching of our parents, but we have done so in other things and lived...



And for my moral compass that works, your being honest with her about it and no lies. Best of luck with it I have seen it work, and I have seen it not work. But at least this way you have a clear conscience


----------



## helpup (30 Jan 2009)

lovinmysapper said:
			
		

> Hey Guys
> On behalf of the female gender I apologize for the hurt you have been through ESPECIALLY whilst deployed ....the nerve....grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> My guy has been gone since June and returns April... I have been 100% faithful I Love, Respect, Admire, and Adore this man being in the sandbox is a scary time for both of us and the last thing that anyone ever needs is a cheating *** either at home or on deployment ... I do not know why people cheat.... Karma is always gonna sneak up and bite you in the butt!!!!! and then some.......
> Seriously guys if your woman (cant call her a lady) cheated on you while you were in a WAR trust me she is gonna do it while your at Tim Hortons!
> ...



Cool, a ladies perspective, and for allot of what you said about women as you can see from the posts there are allot of men out there that do not ( or have learned to be honest about it  )  I had a long talk with the wife about that and I know her feelings, she knows I am a bit more open about it then she is. My answer to her concern was. " you know that my outlook is more liberal then yours.  However I know you would leave me if I did. There for I would not as I would not want to see you hurt. I love being honest !!  ;D


----------



## lovinmysapper (30 Jan 2009)

Thank you!

I will be honest and tell you that I have been cheated ON... and know what that's all about! and the scars you bare! do I worry that my BF may cheat on me ...yes I do... am I scared NOPE... he has stated he knows what he has and how lucky he feels so I have to trust that .... BTW I have to say that expressing the events of cheating is healthy as long as you do not dwell on...and realize there truly are good people out there... 
The story about the Tide Box in the window LOL I have seen that in Pet... but also you have to think about the spouses at home that hear all about deployment affairs! or the training quickies!!! its hard both ways... COMPLETE HONESTY can sometimes prove to be like a IED , think about that!!!! LOL hope I did not offend any of you! 
Best thing to do is when you think about straying even just once,: How would he/she feel if they knew? and How would I feel if he/she did this to me? I swear you will walk away! IF you love that person you do not want them hurt ....heart broken... 
Sorry Guys I kinda went on and on... Forgive me
Cheers


----------



## AirCanuck (30 Jan 2009)

good points.  This thread has really turned out to be interesting, as for the guy who posted earlier about his girlfriend making out with some dude at the bar, I'm not sure what to tell you.  Some people get really drunk and do something that they honestly regret and wouldn't repeat.  

Some people are just garbage.  It's up to you to decide which she is.


----------



## helpup (30 Jan 2009)

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> good points.  This thread has really turned out to be interesting, as for the guy who posted earlier about his girlfriend making out with some dude at the bar, I'm not sure what to tell you.  Some people get really drunk and do something that they honestly regret and wouldn't repeat.
> 
> Some people are just garbage.  It's up to you to decide which she is.



I don't like the excuse of alcohol being the reason. I know everyone is differant in how they handle the affects but. If they do things that regret when drinking then they know that about themselves and yet go out and drink some more. Drinking loosens your inhibitions, but it does not create a person who was not inside of you before, it just allows that person to come to the surface. 

I have been more then a bit inebriated before and doing something I shouldn't have been doing ( she wasn't single ) I stopped myself and left. Alcohol may of led me to the point but it is my personality that kept me from following through.


----------



## theoldyoungguy (30 Jan 2009)

Gumby said:
			
		

> long story short... she wants to go out.. i'm not comfortable with it, because of what she has done, but i dont want to say much against it, because that will push her away further.  I love her, and deep down i know she loves me.. i'm just so far away.  its a 4 months tasking, not quite a deployment, but a long time away from home either way.. especially for our first time apart.  but being a tasking, not a tour, there isn't much for support.
> 
> Im so frustrated, and scared. I dont want to lose her, but i cant let her walk all over me.  I'm getting help for my personal issues, but as far as the relationship, we aren't married, so i'm pretty much being told to cut her loose and to get over it.  ?????? I dont know.  This has been a bit of a rant/vent.. I do feel better getting it out though.  Thanks for reading.



Well that is a tough situation to be in, I'm not in your situation however I seem to have an abundance of experience with a similar situation  . I will share with you my two cents on the situation, hopefully it helps.

From my own experience, I used to be an insecure person, by the time I married my ex I was generally a very secure and confident person, however I was terrified of her cheating on my when I was overseas. In heinsight that should have raised some alarms, but it did not. She was not supportive of my life goals and aspirations, nor was she supportive of what I was apart of in Afghanistan. It was all about her, and from my fear of losing her I played ball, and did whatever I could to appease her. Big mistake. That relationship was doomed to fail from the start. That is not to say I didnt love her, however I was in love with the idea of who I knew she could be, not what she was. My mistake, my pain, her benefit of having a good person like me and the financial, material, and emotional support for all those years. She had issues, I helped her grow as a person. When everything went to crap and she cheated on me, I was destroyed. I went through fits of rage, and complete depression, half of me wanted her back, half of me wanted to tell her where to go, and never look back. After time I obviously smartened up and chose the ladder. The thing I realised is the relationship I had was based on false pretenses and created emotions I made to make myself feel better about the crappy relationship. I never got what I needed as a person from her. After a lot of counselling to deal with my anger(pre exisiting which was dramatically increased from tour) and the end of my marriage, I realised I am way better off without her, and I am a lot happier by myself. a lot of self help, and talking with friends but I got over it and learned A LOT. It is when I realised I was happy without her, and that im a much stronger person for it, I met my current girlfriend. She is amazing. Its a complete 180 from my past experience. I could go on and explain how great this person is, however there is not much point. Point is it is when I was happy with myself, that I found someone. Women are very intuitive, they will pick up whats going through your head.

In my case my ex cheating on me was the best thing that could have happened. Its a pain in the neck to go thru the divorce but hey, live and learn. Keep on soldierin on. No one can tell you what to do, only you can make the decision whats best for you, but experience has shown me that it might be time for you to be honest with yourself about the situation. Counselling can help.

Good luck buds


----------



## lovinmysapper (30 Jan 2009)

Patriot!

WOW to read from the initial thread to today's note you have really come along way! and you are an inspiration to others that are travelling down this road now...CONGRATS to your success! I know it was not easy... but way 2 go!!! I hope you continue to update us...
Cheers...

Gumby!!
I am so sorry to read of your happenings... I really hope you get some comfort soon... 4 months hun is nothing really ...its nothing, Iam going into 8 I have gone out with my friends and hun I am still here and have been faithful...( we are not married either)seriously you being away for 4 months should bring you closer to each other not make her want to "make out" with someone else... NO EXCUSE accepted.... I know you love her sometimes love is not enough... and really do you want to for the rest of your life second guess her? retrusting is very hard... mind you it can be done!!!! Been there done that one... and wearing the T Shirt!!! LOL oh and still doing it!!! 
There are great ladies in this world that you will never have to second guess, that you will simply be able to trust..and without trust what do you have... doubt etc...
Anyways if you need a woman's thought process at all I am here OK... all about the support for sure!!!! 
Stay Safe.....

Cheers


----------



## chriscalow (31 Jan 2009)

thanks guys.  i'm pretty much a mess right now, and everything everyone says seems to gel with me.  im not going to decide anything until i get my wits about me.  i dont know, half the time I just feel numb, so filled with emotion that its like overload.  other times, i'll feel my chest being weighed down, and then my stomach goes in knots as I wonder.. just what is she doing right now?  who is she talking to?  why wont she answer phone?  she says she wants to work on it, especially when sober.  but then the weekends come, she is like two completely different people.  this is making me crazy, i'm glad i have an appointment with the therapist on monday, i usually feel a bit better for a little while when i come out of there.  

its so hard to cope, so far from home, especially on the weekend, so much time to just think, and have thoughts build up in my head.  i mean really, who gets excited for monday?


----------



## AirCanuck (31 Jan 2009)

Gumby said:
			
		

> thanks guys.  i'm pretty much a mess right now, and everything everyone says seems to gel with me.  im not going to decide anything until i get my wits about me.  i dont know, half the time I just feel numb, so filled with emotion that its like overload.  other times, i'll feel my chest being weighed down, and then my stomach goes in knots as I wonder.. just what is she doing right now?  who is she talking to?  why wont she answer phone?  she says she wants to work on it, especially when sober.  but then the weekends come, she is like two completely different people.  this is making me crazy, i'm glad i have an appointment with the therapist on monday, i usually feel a bit better for a little while when i come out of there.
> 
> its so hard to cope, so far from home, especially on the weekend, so much time to just think, and have thoughts build up in my head.  i mean really, who gets excited for monday?



dude, that you feel she is a different person on the weekends... that's probably her real self poking through.  I'm not saying drop her, but give it a real hard look.


----------



## Thompson_JM (31 Jan 2009)

patriot1112 said:
			
		

> Well that is a tough situation to be in, I'm not in your situation however I seem to have an abundance of experience with a similar situation  . I will share with you my two cents on the situation, hopefully it helps.
> 
> From my own experience, I used to be an insecure person, by the time I married my ex I was generally a very secure and confident person, however I was terrified of her cheating on my when I was overseas. In heinsight that should have raised some alarms, but it did not. She was not supportive of my life goals and aspirations, nor was she supportive of what I was apart of in Afghanistan. It was all about her, and from my fear of losing her I played ball, and did whatever I could to appease her. Big mistake. That relationship was doomed to fail from the start. That is not to say I didnt love her, however I was in love with the idea of who I knew she could be, not what she was. My mistake, my pain, her benefit of having a good person like me and the financial, material, and emotional support for all those years. She had issues, I helped her grow as a person. When everything went to crap and she cheated on me, I was destroyed. I went through fits of rage, and complete depression, half of me wanted her back, half of me wanted to tell her where to go, and never look back. After time I obviously smartened up and chose the ladder. The thing I realised is the relationship I had was based on false pretenses and created emotions I made to make myself feel better about the crappy relationship. I never got what I needed as a person from her. After a lot of counselling to deal with my anger(pre exisiting which was dramatically increased from tour) and the end of my marriage, I realised I am way better off without her, and I am a lot happier by myself. a lot of self help, and talking with friends but I got over it and learned A LOT. It is when I realised I was happy without her, and that im a much stronger person for it, I met my current girlfriend. She is amazing. Its a complete 180 from my past experience. I could go on and explain how great this person is, however there is not much point. Point is it is when I was happy with myself, that I found someone. Women are very intuitive, they will pick up whats going through your head.
> 
> ...



I dont know if we have all had something like this, but good lord this sounds A lot like my last relationship... minus the divorce and anger issues...  those came AFTER tour..... 

And Gumby, it sounds like she will probabbly cause you more pain then happiness if you try to stick with her in the long run. she sounds like the kind of person who if she cant be with the one she loves, then she'll just love the one she is with....  

sbe sounds like trouble... and I'm afraid it will just be a cycle of "I'm sorry's" and "I didn't mean to's" in your future.

Take care and I hope things work out for the best.

- Tommy


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## Cpl4Life (2 Feb 2009)

I try to not put myself in situations that would tempt me to cheat.  I love my wife and as much as I like to look at a pretty woman, I could not hurt her like that.


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## 1feral1 (3 Feb 2009)

One should try to remember it does not pay to have few discrete moments of lust/pleasure over a lifetime of trust and friendship. That being said, an affair is not the start of a strained relationship, its the result of one.

Too bad my now Ex did not think the way I try to.

No one deserves to get such disrespectul treatment, especially when they are deployed.

And life rolls on....

As for me, twice bitten now, and thrice shy.

Wes


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## AirCanuck (3 Feb 2009)

Cpl4Life said:
			
		

> I try to not put myself in situations that would tempt me to cheat.  I love my wife and as much as I like to look at a pretty woman, I could not hurt her like that.



I couldn't agree more.  There's a road that leads to cheating, and you have to learn to recognize when you're on it, and then get off (the road that is)


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## theoldyoungguy (4 Feb 2009)

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree more.  There's a road that leads to cheating, and you have to learn to recognize when you're on it, and then get off (the road that is)



Unfortunately some people dont have the higher intelligence required to see what road they're on. But that being said it is people like that, that make the rest of us look good!


----------



## Lil_T (4 Feb 2009)

I've been loathe to post anything on this thread, feeling like a bit of a hypocrite.  

Yes, I have cheated in a relationship, once.  Not while I was with my husband now, a previous relationship.  I've also been cheated on.  That road CPL4Life spoke about is a slippery slope indeed, and I agree that it's important to recognize those road signs.   I will say, and it's no justification whatsoever, the relationship was doomed from the get go.  The ex declared that he wanted to be able to sleep with whomever, but I couldn't.  So he did.  With his ex, and one of his female friends, and lord knows who else really.  Why I stayed as long as I did (too long) I'll never know.  And I suppose out of spite, I stepped out on him.  Big red flag!  Should have just left instead of staying to cause further damage.  Spite is a nasty thing.

I call it a _very_ low point in my life that I have made a conscious effort not to revisit.  Do I get tempted?  Of course, I'm human.  I will admit I like eye candy as much as the next person.  I just make it a point of looking but not touching.


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## geo (5 Feb 2009)

Window shopping isn't illegal Lil T

Enjoy !


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## Lil_T (5 Feb 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> Window shopping isn't illegal Lil T



Thank God!  I do enjoy ogling the eye candy.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> eye candy.



Hello!!....I'm in the room.......


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## AirCanuck (7 Feb 2009)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Hello!!....I'm in the room.......



calling yourself eye candy, or are you and Lil' well acquainted?  Just curious, no need to actually answer that.

I agree.  Just because you're on a diet, doesn't mean you can't look at the menu.  But strictly, look.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Feb 2009)

I failed humility class.....


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## Lil_T (7 Feb 2009)

Why Bruce I don't think I've had the pleasure.   heh


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## AirCanuck (7 Feb 2009)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I failed humility class.....



heh.  some of us never even took it.


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## Lil_T (7 Feb 2009)

wait - they have classes for that??  whoa... totally missed all those then.


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## geo (7 Feb 2009)

"S'ok - don't need humility class if, at one time or another... you've eaten "humble pie"


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## Lil_T (7 Feb 2009)

eaten it? hell, I've been smacked in the face with it once or twice....lol


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## kratz (7 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> eaten it? hell, I've been smacked in the face with it once or twice....lol



I really need to go back a page or two and read the previous posts before engaging my mind after reading some comments. I can't be fault though, thisis a cheating spouses thread.  ;D


----------



## Lil_T (7 Feb 2009)

:rofl:  

good times.


----------



## AirCanuck (7 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> hell, I've been smacked in the face with it once or twice....lol



heh...

certainly had the same thought.


----------



## 043 (7 Feb 2009)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, thanks for spicing this thread up. I've been on both sides of the coin, good times and bad.


----------



## geo (7 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> eaten it? hell, I've been smacked in the face with it once or twice....lol



Ahhh... that's called - being "served" humble pie...

Doh... mighta been a case of being "made to eat Crow".

my bad


----------



## Lil_T (7 Feb 2009)

no kidding about that.

tough one to swallow too.


----------



## theoldyoungguy (19 Feb 2009)

Gumby,

How is everything going for you?


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## chriscalow (19 Feb 2009)

hanging in, its a tough go.  I love her so much.  She has been bad, and confessed, now says she wants to be good to me, etc.. i just don't know.


----------



## theoldyoungguy (19 Feb 2009)

Gumby,

Its a crappy go. You need to be honest with yourself. Do you love the idea of her? Are you afraid of being alone? Or do you genuinly love her for her, including the blemishes and knicks against your relationship. only you can answer those questions, but they are questions that need to be answered honestly and truthfully by both you and her. If you both decide that you do love love eachother for what you are, not what you want to be or could be, then don't give up. I don't envy you my friend its hard. But keep on soldierin on. You will make it through it, just keep a positive outlook. It's hard but it makes a huge difference. The relationship will either sink, in which case it was not meant to be, as it was not a healthy relationship, and their is better out there for you, or it will work out which is also great. No words anyone can say will magically make you feel better, but the only advice i can truly offer that might help is be HONEST with yourself and the situation, when you are it makes working through it all so much easier.

Cheers


----------



## uer (21 Feb 2009)

Hi,  

I'm a broadcast student doing a radio documentary about Afghanistan for school.  Would you be willing to talk in a phone interview about your experiences?  It is the kind of story that would fit well with what I am doing.  Thanks,


----------



## PMedMoe (21 Feb 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> I'm a broadcast student doing a radio documentary about Afghanistan for school.  Would you be willing to talk in a phone interview about your experiences?  It is the kind of story that would fit well with what I am doing.  Thanks,



A documentary on Afghanistan or cheating spouses?  If the latter, makes me wonder what kind of story you are doing.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Feb 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a broadcast student doing a radio documentary about Afghanistan for school.  Would you be willing to talk in a phone interview about your experiences?  It is the kind of story that would fit well with what I am doing.  Thanks,



Just having finished reading your blog with lines like this


> "At the last hiphop against the war fundraiser 500 people came.
> Canada has been in Afghanistan for seven years.
> During that time violence against women has increased by forty percent.
> Afghanistan now grows ninety three percent of all the opium in the world
> ...



I doubt you will get much help from the men and women who are putting their lives on the line to help the good people of Afghanistan so that you can continue your quest to be some kind of radio superstar.

..and I have to ask, just where, who, and how many "child soldiers" have you, a student at BCIT, managed to interview?
"Some" isn't very specific. :clown:


----------



## Bomber (23 Feb 2009)

Where can I veiw this blog?


----------



## Michael OLeary (23 Feb 2009)

Bomber said:
			
		

> Where can I view this blog?



Googling the first line of the quoted passage turned this up:

http://www.evolution1079.com/blog/10


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## PMedMoe (23 Feb 2009)

> I am disappointed because I was the *only sole only* student there other than some people who already belong to MAWO.



Geez, I hope they teach you to write better soon.   :


----------



## lovinmysapper (23 Feb 2009)

Geez, I hope they teach you to write better soon.

PMedMoe ................HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH !!!!!! I concur!!!!!! 
Thx for the laugh!!!!
Cheers


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

I actually snorted at that line.  

She's got a bright future at the CBC.


----------



## Journeyman (23 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> She's got a bright future at the CBC.


I had to read that a couple of times; I thought you were saying _PMedMOE_ had a bright future at the CBC -- thinking, "man, that's a pretty harsh comment on her current military career"   >


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

OMG NOOO  *sorry Moe*  

I meant the blog chick.


----------



## theoldyoungguy (23 Feb 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a broadcast student doing a radio documentary about Afghanistan for school.  Would you be willing to talk in a phone interview about your experiences?  It is the kind of story that would fit well with what I am doing.  Thanks,



The only experiences I will be sharing with you are the lack of respect and ignorance shown to soldiers by the majority of the media, and the vast majority of students in canada's universities. So sorry, NO. I will not have my story twisted into anything. It is my story and deserves to be told by myself alone as I lived it. Sorry if I'm being harsh, but I do not have good experiences with the media.


----------



## PMedMoe (23 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> OMG NOOO  *sorry Moe*
> 
> I meant the blog chick.



Geez, I got it right off the bat.  Maybe Journeyman has had too many late nights recently?  :


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Geez, I got it right off the bat.  Maybe Jouneyman has had too many late nights recently?  :



LOL, I'm glad you got it 

Also,  I find it highly disturbing that she selected this particular thread to try to solicit information/  interview.


----------



## Journeyman (23 Feb 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Maybe Journeyman has had too many late nights recently?  :


I had one, dammit, but the recovery time seems longer; must be the winter air


----------



## armyvern (23 Feb 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I had one. But the recovery time seems longer; must be the winter air



Yeah, ri-iiight. I'm sure the KBP closes later than Griffins.  

Stick with that story too.  8)


----------



## theoldyoungguy (23 Feb 2009)

I find this humerous. I thought I was being harsh in my last post, but after reading this chicks blog It seems I wasn't harsh enough. I'm completely amazed at her ignorance. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to speak to her, that is assuming I wouldn't have parts of her education process quoted, disected and used against any possible positive image of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan.


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

patriot1112 said:
			
		

> I find this humerous. I thought I was being harsh in my last post, but after reading this chicks blog It seems I wasn't harsh enough. I'm completely amazed at her ignorance. *Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to speak to her, that is assuming I wouldn't have parts of her education process quoted, disected and used against any possible positive image of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan.*



I can't see that being a good idea.  I see all sorts of mangling happening to any statement you'd make to her.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (23 Feb 2009)

On the contrary, maybe all she needs is a good imformation session to make her realize what's really going on over there instead of what she has "heard".

I picked up a pair of hitchhikers just outside Montreal on my way to NB last fall and they had interesting opinions on the world, the "man", the police, etc... I waited about an hour before I eluded to what I did for a living and where I had recently returned from.  When I dropped them off in Riviere du loup, they had a completely different attitude and told me they had only needed to meet the "right person" to show them what we were doing in Afghanistan.

Not everyone is closed minded, give them a chance.


----------



## Journeyman (23 Feb 2009)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Not everyone is closed minded, give them a chance.


Possibly. 
In the blogger's context though, any chance to change her mind through factual information is hampered by two things:

1) her own personal agenda ("cheating spouses - on top of everything else evil about us being in A'stan, it's destroying perfectly golden families...next on Oprah my college blog"), coupled with, 

2) her having an "audience." It's virtually impossible for her to change her mind (unlike two hitchhikers trapped in a mini-van with an army guy  ), because to 'her posse' she'd be 'selling out to the war machine' by concurring with anything _remotely_ supportive of our mission and our troops.

Sorry, but our educational institutions are amongst the least likely to engage in free thinking.


----------



## Michael OLeary (23 Feb 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Sorry, but our educational institutions are amongst the least likely to engage in free thinking.



free thinking
free love
free speech
free basing
free education

When you're young and going to school on someone else's money, it all free and easy to believe it's all your right to do it, even if you're doing it badly.


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

I like to cling to the notion that eventually the real world will jump up and punch them in the face... 78 times.


----------



## PMedMoe (23 Feb 2009)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> I like to cling to the notion that eventually the real world will jump up and punch them in the face... 78 times.



Hopefully soon.


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

dare to dream.


----------



## lovinmysapper (23 Feb 2009)

Hi All,

I wanted to share with you the PM I received from the broadcast student.....

I'm doing a documentary about the human cost of Aghanistan.  I have been interviewing  a us war deserter who is hanging out in Canada after being in Afghanistan for a year, a child solider from Central Amerrica who was trafficked to Canada  and professionals about post traumatic stress disorder.

 I'm pretty open to talking to veterans, family members about thier experiences.  This documentary will be broadcast on the radio in Vancouver and world wide on the the web on Evolution1079.com.  It is fifteen minute segments.  How much material I get will determine how long the final project might end up.

Let me know if you're interested,  or have any ideas or suggestions,

Since the last comment makes a lot of sense "ANY IDEAS or SUGGESTIONS"... maybe this is the time to enlighten the broadcast student of the realities?????? what say you all???

Cheers :yellow:


----------



## meni0n (23 Feb 2009)

How in the heck does a child soldier from central America have anything to do with human cost in Afghanistan.


----------



## Michael OLeary (23 Feb 2009)

Ask the Illuminati.      >


----------



## Lil_T (23 Feb 2009)

meni0n said:
			
		

> How in the heck does a child soldier from central America have anything to do with human cost in Afghanistan.



Yes, this!


----------



## lovinmysapper (23 Feb 2009)

Ya this whole thing makes you really wonder eh? is she really a broadcast student? or is she confused?
digging for a story? I just don't know.... but I thought I would share what was sent to me with you guys.....
All I know is the Love of My Life is in a war torn country with IED's  RPG's 556, 762 45cal and whatever other things are flying around him and our other soldiers... so I am not good with the whole Tree Huggin approach.... and a warm fuzzy story .... so reality is this is tough all around...


----------



## Loachman (24 Feb 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a broadcast student doing a radio documentary about Afghanistan for school.  Would you be willing to talk in a phone interview about your experiences?  It is the kind of story that would fit well with what I am doing.  Thanks,



If you're a student, you should be studying such things as accuracy a little more, because "The general of the Canadian Armed forces called Afghan people "detestable murderers and scumbags," is false.

Gen Hillier described the _*Taliban*_ thus, not Afghans in general.

And that is an apt description.


----------



## leroi (24 Feb 2009)

lovinmysapper said:
			
		

> Ya this whole thing makes you really wonder eh? is she really a broadcast student? or is she confused?
> digging for a story? I just don't know.... but I thought I would share what was sent to me with you guys.....
> All I know is the Love of My Life is in a war torn country with IED's  RPG's 556, 762 45cal and whatever other things are flying around him and our other soldiers... so I am not good with the whole Tree Huggin approach.... and a warm fuzzy story .... so reality is this is tough all around...



Yes LMS, I feel for you. I saw this question and thought, uh-huh, another person digging for some dirt on the CF.

This poster (uer) reminds me of some student-activists here in Ontario. eace:

People serving in theatre now, in dangerous situations, and their families and friends at home, don't need to be reminded of this kind of lack of support by ungrateful Canadians. Many Canadians do, however, support Canadian Forces personnel and  their families.

                        :yellow: :yellow: :yellow:



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> "The general of the Canadian Armed forces called Afghan people "detestable murderers and scumbags," is false.
> 
> Gen Hillier described the _*Taliban*_ thus, not Afghans in general.
> 
> And that is an apt description.



Loachman, I love the way you put that: concise and succinct. I know we've told the same thing to some Guelph students: they don't listen.  :brickwall: Hillier actually said those words shortly after the London bombing. That was partly why he spoke so passionately against the bloody, bullocky scumbags!



(Edit: re-format)


----------



## Loachman (24 Feb 2009)

Thanks.

I participate enthusiastically in the CF Remembrance Day Speaker Programme each year. I generally address four to six schools, and have spoken to children and young people from Grades 1 to 12. I always try and put things into perspective for them. I frequently ask what the population of their town is, and then ask them to imagine an appropriate percentage of their town dead as a comparison to the number that we've lost in all wars to date, as the raw number is largely meaningless to them. I have them imagine the losses in hopes and dreams of the dead, and the effects upon their families.

I began incorporating Afghanistan into my presentations a few years ago, and relating that to the oppression by the Taliban - no music, no computer games, no radio, no television, no Ipods, no computers, no internet, no sports, no dances, no McDonalds, no medical care or school or careers or going out in public without their father or brother for the girls, their teachers risking being murdered and their schools being burned, shortages of basic foods and none of the ones that they like, the boys being forced to grow beards in a year or several or risk being beaten if they don't.

I have no problem getting them to understand why we are there.

I've missed the last two years, much to my regret - one for my work-up and one for my deployment, but now I have a burqa for the girls to try on too.

I'm betting that I could turn this blogger around, given the chance to speak in person.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (24 Feb 2009)

Loachman, same thing here.

The kids love the idea of not going to school.  But once you present them with the fact that they have no toys, x-box, or friends to play with, then it doesn't sound as interesting to them.  With a little hint that instead of just sitting around, they'll be working on the farm or in the city doing odd jobs at the ripe young age of 8, they listen up.

I personally like to put the losses we've have into perspective by mentioning how many soldiers we have sent over and lost, then comparing it to the amount of people killed by drunk drivers in the past month.  It helps when you suggest that the soldiers that have died knew what they were getting in to when they went over.  In most cases, they died doing the job they loved.

You and I could sit down with this blogger and wake her up to many things I imagine.


----------



## geo (24 Feb 2009)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> You and I could sit down with this blogger and wake her up to many things I imagine.



Only if said student researcher is prepared to listen with his ears AND his heart.... else you'll get cut off & have your words twisted to heck


----------



## Teeps74 (24 Feb 2009)

Dear Abby, I am usually open to talking to the press... In fact, I even have a couple of friends who are reporters. However, I read up on and research before I talk to said members of the press, and anyone who engages in slant such as what I found on your blog, I will always pass on.

Accuracy is everything, and the deliberate twisting of words I saw on your webpage tells me that you will never never make it in the real press corps. I recommend that you go back to school, and start studying things such as ethics. 

You can maintain your biases as a reporter, you can even let those be known. But the second you twist the first person's words, you are good for the tabloids only. For you though, I fear it is too late. Should you apply to the Associated Press, your little blog will be on the ether forever... Pity, ruined before you even started.


----------



## lovinmysapper (24 Feb 2009)

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> Dear Abby, I am usually open to talking to the press... In fact, I even have a couple of friends who are reporters. However, I read up on and research before I talk to said members of the press, and anyone who engages in slant such as what I found on your blog, I will always pass on.
> 
> Accuracy is everything, and the deliberate twisting of words I saw on your webpage tells me that you will never never make it in the real press corps. I recommend that you go back to school, and start studying things such as ethics.
> 
> You can maintain your biases as a reporter, you can even let those be known. But the second you twist the first person's words, you are good for the tabloids only. For you though, I fear it is too late. Should you apply to the Associated Press, your little blog will be on the ether forever... Pity, ruined before you even started.



Well said Teeps74  Well said!!!!!!


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## uer (4 Mar 2009)

This group is paying for promotions and air time.   It's my job to write commercials, stories, and press releases for diffrent clients, be it childcare services, hairdressing schools, musical show or art gallery opening or war protests.   Our station also plays commercials for Canadian Armed Forces as well for free which students have written, produced and voiced.  In fact I have written an ad for them which was on air, and have not recieved any compensation.     

The media doesn't really have an agenda because it represents a diversity of opinions.  Right now,  I'm just collecting information and gathering stories for a project, I don't  have an agenda because as a writer I can easily write fiction stories and still get published.  As for my radio project, it's a documentary, so real stories and interviews are what I'm looking for.  

Everyone has a bias...even if they don't think they have one.


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## George Wallace (4 Mar 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> Everyone has a bias...even if they don't think they have one.



You are indeed correct.  When researching you and with the links provided earlier in this topic, what would we be lead to believe your bias' may be?  I think you may have a hard sell here with the track record you have so far presented us in those links.  Perhaps you have other links that have been less frequented by Yahoo and Google dataminers, that may provide us with more of your work?


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## Journeyman (4 Mar 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> *The media doesn't really have an agenda  because it represents a diversity of opinions. *



 :rofl:          Oh.....I'm sorry; you actually meant that. 

I apologize for mocking your naïveté..unless, of course, you were merely being disingenuous, in which case further dialogue is pretty much useless.

Assuming naïveté, however, media most certainly _does_ have an agenda....not because it's evil or cunning....but because it plays to a specific audience. No station caters unequivocally to each of the 6+ billion folks on the planet -- not even yours. For reasons of audience share and commercial revenue, EVERY media outlet caters to a specific audience, and this cannot help but build bias into programming. 

In the case of your media outlet (please note, I'm not saying "in _your_ case,"), the target audience is obviously one perceived to have an anti-military bias.

Bias exists. You can claim to deny yours, but it's apparent nonetheless.


----------



## the 48th regulator (4 Mar 2009)

uer said:
			
		

> This group is paying for promotions and air time.   It's my job to write commercials, stories, and press releases for diffrent clients, be it childcare services, hairdressing schools, musical show or art gallery opening or war protests.   Our station also plays commercials for Canadian Armed Forces as well for free which students have written, produced and voiced.  In fact I have written an ad for them which was on air, and have not recieved any compensation.
> 
> The media doesn't really have an agenda because it represents a diversity of opinions.  Right now,  I'm just collecting information and gathering stories for a project, I don't  have an agenda because as a writer I can easily write fiction stories and still get published.  As for my radio project, it's a documentary, so real stories and interviews are what I'm looking for.
> 
> Everyone has a bias...even if they don't think they have one.



What is your Documentary about?

You seem to have an interest in PTSD, one of various OSI's, interesting topic to talk about.

Maybe we can help, with a little more information.

dileas

tess


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## wakingheart (11 Mar 2009)

This thread did not end how I expected it.

Relationships can be like mathematical equations.  The pair bond in a relationship can degrade during separation with limited contact, however the conversations had during physical separation should be positive and loving strengthening those bonds.

I was working on the Rigs in Alberta for and allot of the other guys were extremely insecure about their relationships. They thought about it all day and then yelled at their spouses when they had a chance to talk. Needless to say allot of them got cheated on. When I left for the rigs the first time, I was ready to leave my girlfriend of 7 years. I was sick and angry at her, but we had a good positive conversations with her when I was on the Rigs, it changed our relationship for the better. Sometimes you don't know what you have until it is out of your reach. I learned how much I took for granted and how much I truly loved her.

It is my personal belief that relationships are an art that must be cultivated. They are a predictable system that has causes and consequences. So inherently the worse thing you can do is act insecure or jealous this will generally just weaken your relationship. This is a bad idea when you are dealing with a long distance relationship.

I dunno I guess I will eventually have to deal with this emotional reality, I am counting down the days until my BMQ but this is my humble understanding on the situation. I am sure there are people with greater experience with this then me, if anything I would be asking them for their wisdom.

As for uer, I had an experience in politics that may be relevant.

I remember one instance when I spoke to my colleagues about the desire to join the Canadian Forces, they laughed about being behind a desk while I am in Afghanistan hiding from bombs in a rather condescending way. Like everything in politics it changed in value, a week later they were heralding me as a future Minister of Defense  :

There are allot of rewards and incentives to conform to social norms within a community. My experience with Politics has been that many put ambition and notoriety ahead of ethics. It is truly rewarding to encounter exceptions as they deserve tremendous respect.

Please understand how a journalist looking for information in a thread titled "Afghanistan, is it worth it- Cheating Spouse Thread" may stir up suspicion.  We are a generation that has had our view of the soldier painted by Vietnam.

Through personal experiences with mentors and friends I have come to realize that this is not the Canadian Soldier iper:

I hope that what I have said is useful.


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## chriscalow (20 Aug 2009)

its been a while since posting on this thread... regardless, she cheated, i took her back, she is (was) now cheating again.  I left her this time, but the way I found out needs to be shared.  Couple weeks ago, I had some symptoms that were scaring the shite outta me.  I went and got a std test, and got wicked suspicious.  Wouldn't you know, I found evidence (emails sent and recieved) and she was cheating again.

My worry is that I left her, and now she is out whoring around petawawa, and she gave me the clap.  If any of you on here from pet are on p.o.f. be wary of new users looking for their one and only.  If you aren't on p.o.f. good for you, and stay away from the hammered chick with tattoos all over her arm and back.  

This is a matter of public safety, not a flame on her, my revenge on her will be to focus on and be successful in my career, and to replace her with a massive upgrade (it wont take much).  I just dont want anyone else around here catching this from her, and spreading it etc....


----------



## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2009)

Well, at least you went and got checked and the good news is, is that it's treatable.


----------



## ruckmarch (20 Aug 2009)

Gumby said:
			
		

> its been a while since posting on this thread... regardless, she cheated, i took her back, she is (was) now cheating again.  I left her this time, but the way I found out needs to be shared.  Couple weeks ago, I had some symptoms that were scaring the shite outta me.  I went and got a std test, and got wicked suspicious.  Wouldn't you know, I found evidence (emails sent and recieved) and she was cheating again.
> 
> My worry is that I left her, and now she is out whoring around petawawa, and she gave me the clap.  If any of you on here from pet are on p.o.f. be wary of new users looking for their one and only.  If you aren't on p.o.f. good for you, and stay away from the hammered chick with tattoos all over her arm and back.
> 
> This is a matter of public safety, not a flame on her, my revenge on her will be to focus on and be successful in my career, and to replace her with a massive upgrade (it wont take much).  I just dont want anyone else around here catching this from her, and spreading it etc....



Pet and Borden seem to be notorious for a lot of spouses cheating eh? I guess that is what happens in areas where there is nothing else to do.

Don't get me wrong, I sit in the mess and hear guys talking about all their shenanigans on weekends, especially the ones on IR and the ones that just got back from deployments or exercises.


----------



## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2009)

ruckmarch said:
			
		

> Pet and Borden seem to be notorious for a lot of spouses cheating eh? I guess that is what happens in areas where there is nothing else to do.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I sit in the mess and hear guys talking about all their shenanigans on weekends, especially the ones on IR and the ones that just got back from deployments or exercises.



So it is a two-way street then?  

I don't think the fact that there's "nothing to do" has anything to do with why spouses (male or female) cheat.  It's more to do with who one marries and why they married them.  Obviously, some marriages just don't work out, but I'd sooner have someone say "It's over" than fool around on me.


----------



## ruckmarch (20 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> So it is a two-way street then?
> 
> I don't think the fact that there's "nothing to do" has anything to do with why spouses (male or female) cheat.  It's more to do with who one marries and why they married them.  Obviously, some marriages just don't work out, but I'd sooner have someone say "It's over" than fool around on me.



Cos some end up hooking up for the wrong reasons. There is a fine line btw a quick shag and someone you want to take home to your parents or be a parent your child/ren in the future.


----------



## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2009)

ruckmarch said:
			
		

> Cos some end up hooking up for the wrong reasons. There is a fine line btw a quick shag and someone you want to take home to your parents or be a parent your child/ren in the future.



Well, then, that's their problem, isn't it?  When they can't distinguish between the two or cross the line one too many times.


----------



## ruckmarch (20 Aug 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Well, then, that's their problem, isn't it?  When they can't distinguish between the two or cross the line one too many times.



You got to feel sorry for the kids that get caught up in all this eh?


----------



## PMedMoe (20 Aug 2009)

ruckmarch said:
			
		

> You got to feel sorry for the kids that get caught up in all this eh?



Of course I do.  I've been divorced myself, though not for the reasons in this thread.


----------



## mariomike (20 Aug 2009)

My wife divorced me, then forgave me and took me back.


----------



## blacktriangle (21 Aug 2009)

mariomike said:
			
		

> My wife divorced me, then forgave me and took me back.



Forgave you for what, if I may ask?


----------



## mariomike (21 Aug 2009)

hahahah I don't remember! That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Except to say it was a very humbling experience and I will be forever thankful. Lesson learned for me! hahaha


----------



## theoldyoungguy (21 Aug 2009)

Gumby said:
			
		

> its been a while since posting on this thread... regardless, she cheated, i took her back, she is (was) now cheating again.  I left her this time, but the way I found out needs to be shared.  Couple weeks ago, I had some symptoms that were scaring the shite outta me.  I went and got a std test, and got wicked suspicious.  Wouldn't you know, I found evidence (emails sent and recieved) and she was cheating again.
> 
> My worry is that I left her, and now she is out whoring around petawawa, and she gave me the clap.  If any of you on here from pet are on p.o.f. be wary of new users looking for their one and only.  If you aren't on p.o.f. good for you, and stay away from the hammered chick with tattoos all over her arm and back.
> 
> This is a matter of public safety, not a flame on her, my revenge on her will be to focus on and be successful in my career, and to replace her with a massive upgrade (it wont take much).  I just dont want anyone else around here catching this from her, and spreading it etc....



I'm glad your doing well gumby. If you do not posess the honour and integrity to respect the person your with you probably won't ever have it. She was clearly not worth yours or anybody elses time. I'm glad to see your keeping your head high and taking that high road. I struggled to do it for quite some time and it caused me more problems than good, thankfully I have changed my ways and all I have to say is Kharma is nasty. What goes around comes around, she will get hers all on her own without any help. People like that are parasitic generally s**t magnets. Thankfully your little medical issue is completely curable and you caught it early.

God I love kharma...


----------



## FishOuttaWater (21 Aug 2009)

patriot1112 said:
			
		

> Ha ha. I would have thought this thread would have died out quite some time ago. If I remember correctly I wrote this in one of my many retardedly drunken nights.
> 
> In a nutshell I am doing very well. I've moved on with my life and am quite content. The ex has tried getting back together with me several times, and is still trying, to no avail. That chapter of my life is done and I'm very happy with that. That was one of the hardest things I have had top deal with, especially after coming back from Afghanistan and dealing with that crap as well. It was a tough time. However I believe now that it was all for the best. I feel like a lot stronger person, a little more cynical but very much stronger. Life is good, I'm happy to be alive, and I wake up every morning looking forward to my day. My glass is half full now, and no one or anything will change that for me ever again.



I don't care how long it's been since this post, or how many people said the same thing...

Good for you man, best of luck. Seriously...


----------



## gunshy (23 Aug 2009)

> God I love kharma...


 :nod:

You get what you give and unfortunately this gives the rest of us "good girls" a bad name!   It's too bad some don't have enough self respect for themselves or others! Shame, but if others get the clap... well serves them right!
What ever hapen to old school morals, values and self respect?  ??? Sorry 1 night of fun is not worth a life time of heartbreak. (children) Besides Divorce costs more then marriage!  :nod:


----------



## theoldyoungguy (28 Aug 2009)

Whats kind of funny is it has now been just over a year since I wrote this thread, and only a few days longer since I returned home from Afghanistan. Those days went by and I never even thought about it. It never ceases to amaze me how life can change in just one year, for the better. It goes to show there really is a silver lining to everything. Life really is what you make of it. I know my cup is now usually half full, as opposed to how it was half empty.


----------



## gunshy (29 Aug 2009)

> I know my cup is now usually half full, as opposed to how it was half empty.



Yes I too would have to say it is a wonderful feeling! ;D



> If you do not posess the honour and integrity to respect the person your with you probably won't ever have it.



I couldn't agree with you more with this statement! :nod: You soooo get what you give!!! Just imagine being able to stand and witness on Judgement Day! 



> It goes to show there really is a silver lining to everything.



OH you bet! 
 :cheers:
gunshy


----------



## Cpl4Life (24 Sep 2009)

Glad you are doing well!


----------



## helpup (28 Sep 2009)

Good to hear, and Karma does work.  Most of the things going on in life are not Earth shattering.  They are forks in the road, as long as you dont just sit at the junction and go woe is me you will complete a journey.  

I think I posted earlier.  I dont condem or hold myself superior to anyone moralistically.  I can understand and in some instances open relationships, differienciate between love and lust.  No one is truely at fault for being part of a consentual tryst.  However if what your doing involves needing to lie to someone you are involved with then that is a very simple test to tell you if what you are doing is wrong or right.  And if the person you are with fails that test it is a good sign to walk away.

And a side note I highly recommend avoiding male or female who comes with need to be medicated disorders,,,,,,,, at least untill you have full knowledge of them when they are off thier meds.


----------



## chriscalow (28 Sep 2009)

helpup said:
			
		

> And a side note I highly recommend avoiding male or female who comes with need to be medicated disorders,,,,,,,, at least untill you have full knowledge of them when they are off thier meds.



+1  very, very, good advice.  If you are going to do it, do some research first, and try to get an idea of what kind of rollercoaster ride you might be in for.  And another tip, never delete anything, a happy email, and angry email.. both ways.. you never know when you might need to prove that someone is lying their @$$ off about you behind you're back.


----------



## gunshy (30 Sep 2009)

WOW!


> And another tip, never delete anything, a happy email, and angry email.. both ways.. you never know when you might need to prove that someone is lying their @$$ off about you behind you're back.



It's pretty sad someone would have to go to such extreme to have a relationship or protect themselves from one?  ???
I would think once you've hit this point the ties would already be severed and loses cut! 

Just my  :2c: gunshy

Again...


> if what your doing involves needing to lie to someone you are involved with then that is a very simple test to tell you if what you are doing is wrong or right.  And if the person you are with fails that test it is a good sign to walk away.


----------



## Vets Dottir (30 Sep 2009)

mariomike said:
			
		

> My wife divorced me, then forgave me and took me back.



You obviously have some redeeming qualities  ;D


----------



## mariomike (30 Sep 2009)

"The first step is Love, the second is mercy".
I am sure Dr Phil could explain it better! hahaha


----------



## Vets Dottir (30 Sep 2009)

I can only imagine what a blow it is for someone off serving only to find out their partner/spouse, girl or boyfriend has betrayed that kind of a trust.

I wish people, all, could just be honest with themselves and with each other before they jump in together too far. People change, design and build their lives around accommodating a certain kind of relationship, they structure their lives to fit that "particular kind" of relationship in ... doing and deciding things they would not do if the relationship were different. Whats wrong with that is it goes farther than a simple betrayal of monogamy, its a life betrayal to the person who has changed their lives and built life and daily decisions around to accommodate it, and thats why people get tied in knots and griefstricken when they're doing "monogamous whether stated or understood to be monogamous" and find out their partner has strayed. It's not so much about being with someone else, its about highhandedly disrespect towards that other persons life and freedom to choose how they want to do their own lives and relationships. Kinda like ripping off the other persons life and running the relationship and their life. How come? "I want you ... and I want so and so too but know you won;t be with me if I am open about that and I really gotta have you so I'll have my cake (you) and secretly eat it too (others)" 

I would make different life and relationship behaviors choices for a monogamous relationship than I would for one with someone who wants other people too. In the end, all I really want is to know what I'm doing with my own life, day to day, and that I'm not crossing my own lines and can make decisions I know I can live with as long as I am with this person. 

I think sacrificing what you really want for another person is not a good foundation to try build a relationship on, or hold onto someone you don't want to lose. I think a lot of grief ... and maybe a lot of bitter separations and divorces come out of "sacrificing"

All depends on what people want with and from each other. Know what you want, and what you want from other people, and try hanging in there for the person that fits.

I know "love" and instant attractions hit and people dive in hungry to have and hang on ... way too far and too soon ... blinded by love and lust   ;D ... then ......... oh boy, hang on for a bumpy ride. 

These are just some of my thoughts about relationships and cheating etc. Most of us learn the hard way not to jump too far too soon  How does that person handle situations and life ... good things to learn before diving in only to drown or be hurt. I'm old and have been hurt by my own "too far too soon" problems, inluding not so long ago. Slow learner I guess


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## Vets Dottir (30 Sep 2009)

mariomike said:
			
		

> "The first step is Love, the second is mercy".
> I am sure Dr Phil could explain it better! hahaha



I think I get your drift ... and Doc Phils too 

Actually, I think that it isn't unrealistic to think that straying spouses caught out when they were expected not to be straying ... well, that can have a good effect on a relationship and end up making it stronger. What it can do is raise all the problems to the surface and give a strong love bond a chance to kinda re-group and fix some problems, and move forward and up a level to an even better relationship. I think it can be a bit rocky, the getting to know you part and doing life and relationship together, until both people find their comfort levels with each other and what works as a couple. Strong bonds can weather and grow from straying I think, and be even stronger. I guess it depends on the strength of the bonds and the nature and extent of deceptions. 

Its really good to hear that you and your wife's bond was strong enough to not break compltetly, no matter what the reasons opf why you had to be forgiven for


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## gunshy (1 Oct 2009)

> What it can do is raise all the problems to the surface and give a strong love bond a chance to kinda re-group and fix some problems, and move forward and up a level to an even better relationship.



I believe this is possible if the "stray" is a one time deal, if it continues... the respect is gone and soon is the relationship  :nod:
As for:


> You obviously have some redeeming qualities  ;D



:rofl: too funny Vets 
gunshy


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## mariomike (1 Oct 2009)

Any "straying" a man gets does, in this world, he's going to pay for. One way, or another. 
Which begs this question. Are you vowing to be faithful till death do you part only, or for eternity!?


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## Vets Dottir (1 Oct 2009)

gunshy said:
			
		

> I believe this is possible if the "stray" is a one time deal, if it continues... the respect is gone and soon is the relationship  :nod:



Yeah, I pretty much agree with you there. If a partner keeps "falling off the relationship wagon" then they obviously aren't ready for monogamy with their partner. Either change the rules from monogamous to open relationship so the relationship is at least open and honest and a different style of relationship, or move on if what you really want is monogamous and can't handle straying partner. Sounds simple, but I know how hard it is to have to back away from someone I don't want to back away from because I love them, but in the end, I need relationships that I can live with and do my life around, knowing what I'm doing. I also need to know I'm safe from any little or big diseases and a straying partner doesn't have their strays lab reports up to the minute ... so its also a big health risk. I want to decide what risks I will take. Don't decide for me, in secret, so I don't know I'm at risk because I put myself at risk every time I am intimate with my straying partner and probably wouldn't be intimate, if only I had known he strayed. I need to trust my partner with my health too. Thats a biggy. If I'm with someone who is deceptive and strays and I don;t know that then I am putting myself at risk every time I am intimate with my "monogamous" partner. Thats my decision to decide what risks I'll "knowingly" take.

I guess this thread got me going  Sorry folks. This is just me freeflowing thoughts about this kind of thing. And I know a lot of people think about this area of relationships a lot, so maybe some will be ok with things I say and go "yeah, me too" 



> As for:
> 
> :rofl: too funny Vets
> gunshy



 That was my immediate response retort


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## Vets Dottir (1 Oct 2009)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Any "straying" a man gets does, in this world, he's going to pay for. One way, or another.
> Which begs this question. Are you vowing to be faithful till death do you part only, or for eternity!?



Maybe just until I don't wanna anymore then the rules have to change or be renegotiated to suit the new attitude


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## mariomike (1 Oct 2009)

I have heard of couples disagreeing over wording the vow to say "till death" or "through eternity". 
I am thankful to have come of age, as George Burns said, "when the air was clean and sex was dirty." At least before AIDS threw a wet blanket on the party. Some have called the 1970's "the twilight years of debauchery". I wouldn't go quite that far! hahaha


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## Vets Dottir (1 Oct 2009)

When I was young (child of the 1950's) I would have done "til death us do part"

Now old and been around the block, I would say "Until the death of the relationship do us part"  ... starting out hoping to get to eternity of course but hey, I'm a realist by now. Life did that to me


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## mariomike (1 Oct 2009)

Vets Dottir said:
			
		

> When I was young (child of the 1950's) I would have done "til death us do part"



This is what I was talking about, Vets Dottir:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsQpWHEYEMU


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## Vets Dottir (2 Oct 2009)

Gawd I love being single!!!!!!!  That was good MM ...


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## gunshy (3 Oct 2009)

> Gawd I love being single!!!!!!!



Me too!!!   ;D  Never to vow again!  :2c:

Seems "monogamy" is too old school in this day in age and is sadly pathetic!


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## vonGarvin (3 Oct 2009)

gunshy said:
			
		

> Seems "monogamy" is too old school in this day and age and is sadly pathetic!


Well, then, call me old school and sadly pathetic.  :2c:


(But in case I change my mind, all you poly-girls out there, send phone number and "vital statistics" to me via PM)  >


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## Kat Stevens (3 Oct 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> Well, then, call me old school and sadly pathetic.  :2c:
> 
> 
> (But in case I change my mind, all you poly-girls out there, send phone number and "vital statistics" to me via PM)  >



You are a low, vile man, MR... We should hang out together more   ;D


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## vonGarvin (3 Oct 2009)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> You are a low, vile man, MR... We should hang out together more   ;D


Dude, I was asking for da ladeez! ;D


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## gunshy (3 Oct 2009)

> Dude, I was asking for da ladeez!



 :rofl:
cheers,
gunshy 

Let me clarify...


> Seems "monogamy" is old school in this day in age and this, is sadly pathetic!


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## jessica21 (21 Oct 2009)

I am engaged to a proud soldier currently stationed in Kaf. I do have a concern that I would like to share. When he calls, all he tells me about is how guys are cheating on their wives, wives are cheating on their husbands, but openly. He says that the wives here in the states and the guys there, have agreed to cheating. I have seen my dad go and come back twice and I KNOW that my parents would NEVER consent to something like that. My finance' has also shared with me how many female soldiers have tried to "get with him", he says that he tells them that he is engaged and their reply is "what happens in Kaf, stays in Kaf", I sometimes wonder, should I just let him go, have his fun, and when he comes back home, and if its meant to be, we will find each other again.
Im doing my internship at Womack in NC and have no intention of cheating. He tells me all the time, that he doesnt either, but if that is the case, why would he continue to tell me the horror stories of cheating husbands and wives, To me, thats "need to know" information.


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## vonGarvin (21 Oct 2009)

Well, Jennifer, I don't know what to say.  It's up to you.  Yes, I'm certain that people find reasons and/or excuses to stray from their commitments, no matter what they be.

Why is he telling you about what's going on?  Maybe he wants you to hear it from him, instead of you hearing about the Shananigans going on over there, and then have to ask him "Why didn't you tell me?"

Maybe?  Perhaps?


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## ajp (21 Oct 2009)

I am older...and single...but If its meant to be I believe it works.  I have not found the ONE but if two people are menat to be GREAT - Cheating is just that.  I have siblings that area all in better than 10 yeear marriages.  Maybe the guy talking about all that is going on is feeling out your reaction, trying to guage your opinion on the matter.  Getting permission to Cheat always makes me LAUGH.  But here I am....still single.


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## Thompson_JM (21 Oct 2009)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Why is he telling you about what's going on?  Maybe he wants you to hear it from him, instead of you hearing about the Shananigans going on over there, and then have to ask him "Why didn't you tell me?"
> 
> Maybe?  Perhaps?



I'm with Techno on that one....

I would rather my S/O be aware of the reality of what is happening over there... mind you I would also be reassuring her that I have no part in it (since I find cheating to be morally reprihensible...) but yeah, better for her to know what its really like then to keep her in a fantasy world... she'll find out eventually, and i think its better to hear it from someone who cares about her, rather then the base wives at a coffee meet or whatever..


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## Loachman (21 Oct 2009)

Is he Canadian, or American (I note that you are in North Carolina)?

For us, any form of sexual activity involving more than one person is strictly prohibited in theatre. It will at least result in an early return, and most likely other measures. I saw no sign of anything like this within my organization there.

Adultery is a military crime in the US Armed Forces. I am sure that it happens, but there is an obvious risk.

Privacy is a challenge over there as well. Not insurmountable to the determined, but getting caught can have serious consequences.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Oct 2009)

jessica21 said:
			
		

> I am engaged to a proud soldier currently stationed in Kaf. I do have a concern that I would like to share. When he calls, all he tells me about is how guys are cheating on their wives, wives are cheating on their husbands, but openly. He says that the wives here in the states and the guys there, have agreed to cheating. I have seen my dad go and come back twice and I KNOW that my parents would NEVER consent to something like that. My finance' has also shared with me how many female soldiers have tried to "get with him", he says that he tells them that he is engaged and their reply is "what happens in Kaf, stays in Kaf", I sometimes wonder, should I just let him go, have his fun, and when he comes back home, and if its meant to be, we will find each other again.
> Im doing my internship at Womack in NC and have no intention of cheating. He tells me all the time, that he doesnt either, but if that is the case, why would he continue to tell me the horror stories of cheating husbands and wives, To me, thats "need to know" information.



It could be that he is venting, being honest and hoping to hear you say "thats horrible!" all in one.  Kills lots of birds with one stone.

I am newly married (last summer) and about to go away for 6-7 months and I've been pretty open and honest with Mrs EITS about what goes on with 'some' people when they are away from home.  Why?  Simple.  Why wouldn't I be honest with my wife?  She already decided I wasn't that kind of guy (which I am not, thats what Marriage Maintenance Weekends are for) or she wouldn't have married me, and vice-versa.

Its not what a person does that makes them a cheating kind.  Its what kind of person they are.  A soldier that cheats cheats because he/she is a cheater, not a soldier.  If they were a banker who travels to different cities for work, they would be doing the same thing.  IMO.


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## Thompson_JM (22 Oct 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Its not what a person does that makes them a cheating kind.  Its what kind of person they are.  A soldier that cheats cheats because he/she is a cheater, not a soldier.  If they were a banker who travels to different cities for work, they would be doing the same thing.  IMO.



Saw this regularly when I worked night security at a Business class hotel in downtown Toronto.... man was there a lot of infidelity... and escorts.... and street hookers.... I felt dirty just being there...... 

I fully agree with EITS. its the person.


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## helpup (27 Oct 2009)

jessica21 said:
			
		

> I am engaged to a proud soldier currently stationed in Kaf. I do have a concern that I would like to share. When he calls, all he tells me about is how guys are cheating on their wives, wives are cheating on their husbands, but openly. He says that the wives here in the states and the guys there, have agreed to cheating.
> 
> Im doing my internship at Womack in NC and have no intention of cheating. He tells me all the time, that he doesnt either, but if that is the case, why would he continue to tell me the horror stories of cheating husbands and wives, To me, thats "need to know" information.



Funny name your doing your internship with. Reminds me of my own.  

Anyhow I got a kick out of your other half's comments.  That is not just restricted to KAF.  I find people who call up guy or girl and comment on the antics of others tend to fall into one of 3 catagories.  The first being, Naive gossip.  These people try to settle your fears by proving how good of a boy/girl they are.  Since so and so is hooking up with........ but not them no sir, they are remaining faithfull............... Meanwhile the wives/hubby network starts to get rhumour or gossip about thier spouses who were mentioned by said naive person and the unproven inuendo begins.

The next type of person puts a twist on it.  They are involved in it but go full denial and say everyone else is but not them.  They are remaining faithfull. So let me tell you about so and so in order to hide what I am doing.  

Both these types do nothing to ease the fears of others.  More often then not they also implicate fully inocent people.  But hey thier bumm is covered. even if the person left behind no longer has a warm fuzzy feeling anymore.

The third type is one who will not volunteer information but will answer your questions if you bring it up.  Or they will include it in a online or snail  mail musing that has them just venting about what is going on over there.  In this case take what they say with a grain of salt as they are just trying to show you what a slice of thier life is over there.

In any of these cases you either trust your person or you do not.  Do not pass on what he says to you as he/she can either be wrong or more importently it is not really any of your business.  

By the by I am not saying your other half is covering his butt.  How ever the saying goes
"me-thinks he doth protest too much"


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## X-mo-1979 (27 Oct 2009)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Is he Canadian, or American (I note that you are in North Carolina)?
> 
> For us, any form of sexual activity involving more than one person is strictly prohibited in theatre. It will at least result in an early return, and most likely other measures. I saw no sign of anything like this within my organization there.


Not from what I have seen.One of the partners may get moved to another FOB that's about it.Good ol showers.


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## mariomike (27 Oct 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Not from what I have seen.One of the partners may get moved to another FOB that's about it.Good ol showers.



"Water Conservation!?"


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## Altair (11 Jan 2010)

while my case is nowhere near as serious as most here, i feel it would be best shared here rather than create a whole new thread 

i was with my girlfriend for a year or so, during which i explained my intention to join the military in the near future. she supported me in this, knowing it was something i wanted to do.

but as the process proceeded from my CFAT , medical and interview she seemed less happy, stopped sharing my enthusiasm.

i finally get the call offering me a position and she disappears. a today i get the inevitable call with her saying she's too young for this( we're both early 20s) and she can't be with someone who has a expiry date, and that she has moved on and she intends to find other men. maturely handled by both of us, although a it came as a bit of a shock for me.

my first taste of military relationships, a sour one to say the least. so my question, after experiencing this and reading the stories here, are they all this hard? should i expect this kind of thing moving forward?


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## FastEddy (11 Jan 2010)

Well "Altair", considering the vast number of reasons on Civy Street for getting dumped or a Dear John Letter.

ie; your too fat, you don;t make enough money, you have bad breath, you don't have a nice car, its too far by bus to your house, I don't like your family, your brother asked me to marry him, we're just not compatible, its not you, I'm just not into you and on and on.

I wouldn't be too concerned or worrying about future relationships, because you're gonna meet the right person who doesn't give a Damn about any of the above. For those who do, its their choice and their loss.

So just sit back and enjoy the ride and pursue your Career and Dream.

Cheers.


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## George Wallace (11 Jan 2010)

Altair

Perhaps you have given her a bit too much credit on the maturity level.  "Expiry Date"?  I guess she may be in for a bit of a shock should her next BF be hit by a bus crossing the street, or some other tragic event that could happen to anyone.  If that is her concern, then perhaps she will never have a BF, unless it is one who is so paranoid that they never leave their home, in which all the walls are padded to prevent any form of injury.

There is a lot of good advice in this topic, and lots of examples of other people in similar situations.  As many have posted before, there are some exceptional people out there who are very supportive of their military spouse and perhaps you will be lucky enough to enter into such a relationship.


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## ballz (11 Jan 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If that is her concern, then perhaps she will never have a BF, unless it is one who is so paranoid that they never leave their home, in which all the walls are padded to prevent any form of injury.



Who will undoubtedly die at the age of 35 from his own fat body slowly squeezing his heart into peanut. She better hurry up and find him before he expires!

I've yet to meet somebody, besides perhaps my 90 yr old great grandmother, who doesn't have an expiry date.


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## Altair (11 Jan 2010)

thanks guys.

i'm not crushed over this or regreting my decision, was just curious as to how difficult military relationships are. it's one thing nobody really covers except to say avoid certain types of women.


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## mariomike (11 Jan 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> it's one thing nobody really covers except to say avoid certain types of women.




That's the oldest question in the book.


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## Cpl4Life (11 Jan 2010)

As much as I hate to admit, I agree with George Wallace.  Everyone has an expiry date.


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## Haggis (11 Jan 2010)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> ie; your too fat, you don;t make enough money, you have bad breath, you don't have a nice car, its too far by bus to your house, I don't like your family, your brother asked me to marry him, we're just not compatible, its not you, I'm just not into you and on and on.



Wow!  Life has been cruel, hasn't it?  :-D

How about a friend of mine whose girl told him "I've decided that I want to be a lesbian."?  His reply was "Great!  Me too!"  She didn't buy it.


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## 1feral1 (14 Jan 2010)

jessica21 said:
			
		

> My finance' has also shared with me how many female soldiers have tried to "get with him", he says that he tells them that he is engaged and their reply is "what happens in Kaf, stays in Kaf



Wow, during my time in Baghdad our Combat Team of 110 pers had two females, both MPs, and kept in another location within the city, and not with the main body at our FOB.

In Australia, women are not allowed to be in Combat Arms Units. We were a force mainly of Paras and Armoured Recce. All blokes.

That being said there was not that many US females even within the FOB, Union III (AL Tahweed) (US forces were mainly Arty, Armd and Mech Inf). BIAP did have an abundance of females as did 10 and 28 CSH in the city.

At the time I really had no desire to cheat, nor did really anyone go out and about to score a root. I guess Afghanistan and Iraq are different in more ways than one.

OWDU


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## 1feral1 (14 Jan 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> thanks guys.
> 
> i'm not crushed over this or regreting my decision, was just curious as to how difficult military relationships are. it's one thing nobody really covers except to say avoid certain types of women.



Consider youself lucky. Many get their 'Dear John' via phone or email. One bloke I knew was so devistated, he drowned his sorrows by eating a box of Kit Kats (and I mean a box) and drinking tins (and I mean tins) of Coke. To top it off, she left his apartment open and it was cleaned out, including his medals from previous trips. He was gutted. In Nov 08, the police found his medals and other stuff.

As for me, my now ex, left me after 6 days back from Baghdad. I was home less than one month out of 15. All ones plans (early retirement etc) and future down the toilet. A home which was paid off had to be refinanced, and my life was turned upside down by this and post deployment issues. I nearly did a crash and burn, but had a little common sense left to pull my self up from a nose dive. I now struggle like anyone else. I am alone by choice.

Like I said, consider yourself lucky. As for me now, nearly 3 yrs later, the more I date the more I love my two Siamese cats.

OWDU 

EDITed for spelling


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## theoldyoungguy (15 Jan 2010)

I completely forgot about this thread I started waay back when. I guess I should give an update. Long story short, legally divorced a while back, bought a house and am now living with the same girl I've been with for about a year. Marriage is no where near the horizon. I now live by a new philosophy, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, don't do marriage unless kids are invovled(in which case your screwed anyways), and keep separate finances.

This may seem cynical, which I am. However it still makes good sense. Even my girlfriend agrees. If you have everything in writing and everything separated if you have large issues your not gonna be sticking around because your afraid of the outcome of leaving. You will stick around because you want to. You will know what you will have if you walk away. It seems very simple. It removes a lot of pressure. I don't believe in the whole, "We don't need a prenup because we trust and love eachother." That's BS. Play it smart. It will keep you honest and bring a lot less stress.


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## Altair (15 Jan 2010)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Consider youself lucky. Many get their 'Dear John' via phone or email. One bloke I knew was so devistated, he drowned his sorrows by eating a box of Kit Kats (and I mean a box) and drinking tins (and I mean tins) of Coke. To top it off, she left his apartment open and it was cleaned out, including his medals from previous trips. He was gutted. In Nov 08, the police found his medals and other stuff.
> 
> As for me, my now ex, left me after 6 days back from Baghdad. I was home less than one month out of 15. All ones plans (early retirement etc) and future down the toilet.



in hindsight, she was decent enough to do this before i left rather than while i was gone or just after i came back.

regardless, moving on, no big deal. going to avoid deep emotional relationships from now on though.

what did you mean about the cats?


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## 1feral1 (18 Jan 2010)

Pets give UNCONDITIONAL love, and the comment was tongue in cheek.

I am way over relationships. Two wives cost me 100's of thousands of dollars, and now at 50, a huge mortgage.

That being said, I will continue to date as required, but nothing serious.

Just be cautious.

Cheers,

OWDU


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## BlueJingo (18 Jan 2010)

Wow, that sucks OWDU... I'm sorry that some women have steered you right off relationships. 

Give your cats a couple of hugs from me too!


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## gunshy (20 Jan 2010)

That is unfortunate OWDU but I agree 





> Pets give UNCONDITIONAL love


  :nod:

Being single by choice is a good frame of mind... cautious and guarded don't blame you one bit!

gunshy


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## SoldierInTheMaking (20 Jan 2010)

Well in my situation...I'm 19 years old I've been dating this girl almost 8 months, she new coming into this relationship that I was planing on joining the army. I can tell she clearly doesn't want me to go and sometimes she makes it quite clear. We've had our long talks numerous amounts of times and I really want to work things out with this girl. But I feel as if we do stay together, that she's going to break up with me while I'm gone training...because she said herself, she can't do long distance. So pretty much that says it, I just don't know what to do though. I rather deal with the emotions now then deal with them while I'm at training.


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## Altair (21 Jan 2010)

been there, not a pleasant situation.

all i can say in the way of advice is resolve it before you leave. basic is hard enough without going through a breakup right before or during it.

if she has any reservations now, i imagine they are going to get worst while you're away doing something she isn't supportive of.

i know you want to be with her and join the forces, but it seems that's not possible here, so it comes down to what you want more.

hope this helps.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (21 Jan 2010)

It does help, but I'm just confused right now. I'm going to use this time that I have until I leave to try and understand things a bit more, talk with her more and see what she's feeling. I know this girl loves me to death, and it's not that she isn't supportive of what I want to do with my life because she does support me. It's just were young, her being 2 years younger then me and were use to hanging out and spending everyday together and with me leaving, it changes things....we wont be able to see eachother or talk to eachother when we want. I know what I want though, I want this for my life and I want her and me to work through this. I just need to know she's in the same state of mind that I'm in and that she is willing to make things work. Only time will tell I guess..


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## DFandE (23 Feb 2010)

I feel for you buddy! I was on the other end of this stick. My husband, rank of Major, got his jollies off with a WO clerk for the nine months he was in Afghanistan. I wish they would have been caught, charged and sent home. I found out because her fiance PHONED ME!  I confronted my husband and he said it was true. Of course, neither were charged...I just feel like an idiot. Here I am "Keeping the homefires burning" - supported him 100% for many years, my whole life was "being a good supportive army wife" and  he took that all for granted. Well lets just say - that's not happening anymore. 

The worst part is - we've always been buddies - always been friends - its not as if I'm some nagging wife who doesn't understand military life! Anyway - I'm the shmuck who waited and waited for a phone call or a MSN chat. Meanwhile he's buying this WO Icecaps at Tim Hortons and "too busy" to call. The kids are worried about their dad, and he's doing his thing in Afghanistan. What a hero! 

Since then he's repented a thousand times - and of course, me STILL being the shmuck - have forgiven him. But I'm telling you, my life has changed. I used to be a proud army wife! I had a bumper magnet that said "I love my soldier"...I was so proud. I was proud to be an army wife! Proud of keeping the house together, making banners for his homecoming! Tying yellow ribbons around the tree on our front lawn. 

I feel the betrayal of anyone in this situation - no matter which side it comes from. 
I'm not a proud army wife anymore - just DF&E...I can't look at a yellow ribbon without cringing. 
Sorry for being so over-dramatic.


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## vonGarvin (23 Feb 2010)

DFandE:
I'm sorry that this has happened to you.  And don't worry about ranting on here, we've all been known to from time to time.


Hope things get better for you


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## 1911CoLt45 (23 Feb 2010)

Yea goes to show some people and their mind set.  As far as the younger members here are concerned wait till your older and the hormones have slowed down.  Joining the army and having a girlfriend or boyfriend you love are two intense things. at younger ages  Think whats going to be there 20 years down the line at that age.  Your job, or your high school romance.  People change, make the right decisions and use the head that's top side of your waist.


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## DFandE (23 Feb 2010)

Thanks for letting me rant! I've kept it secret from our three kids, my parents, my friends...never said a word to anyone. I didn't want them to hate my husband, because, all in all, he's a decent guy. People obviously knew we were having issues but they figured it was a case of "Afghanistan Blues" and of course you know how people judge. I figured I would forgive him eventually - we've been friends since we were little kids. But I knew if I told anyone they would be less likely to forgive. I didn't want the kids to suffer just because their dad f*cked up big time. Afghanistan is a crap  hole of a place. I kind of understand - but honestly, I'd rather he just come home and beat the crap out of me rather than this happen. At least I could have hit back.

Anyway - it feels good to tell the truth! It feels good to get it out. I knew that if I wrote what happened here - you people would truly understand. 

 Anyway - one thing that does make me feel better is the fact she tried to blackmail him - but of course I already knew about the affair and he went and told his boss at work already too so blackmail wasn't going to work.  
You can't blackmail someone who's already told his wife. My husband wanted to call the MP's but I said that if the media got a hold of the story the kids would be hurt beyond belief (they're all teens)...sooo...I sent her an email saying that I already knew about the affair and she could give me a call if she wanted to chat, compare notes, whatever. lol That was the end of the correspondence.  

Right - enough of that. I won't mention it again. I just thank you all for a place where I'm understood. I'd never be able to write this on a civy website. They'd think I was crazy to stay with him. You know, they don't quite understand military life. 

Cheers and THANK YOU!


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## Kat Stevens (23 Feb 2010)

I've got to say, you're made of better stuff than me.  I understand military life too, and there would have been a shit storm of hellfire to rival the Plagues of Egypt, we're talking old testament smackdown.  Forgiveness is for the priests to hand out, not my department.


----------



## 1feral1 (1 Mar 2010)

DFandE said:
			
		

> Thanks for letting me rant! I've kept it secret from our three kids, my parents, my friends...never said a word to anyone. I didn't want them to hate my husband, because, all in all, he's a decent guy. People obviously knew we were having issues but they figured it was a case of "Afghanistan Blues" and of course you know how people judge. I figured I would forgive him eventually - we've been friends since we were little kids. But I knew if I told anyone they would be less likely to forgive. I didn't want the kids to suffer just because their dad f*cked up big time. Afghanistan is a crap  hole of a place. I kind of understand - but honestly, I'd rather he just come home and beat the crap out of me rather than this happen. At least I could have hit back.
> 
> Anyway - it feels good to tell the truth! It feels good to get it out. I knew that if I wrote what happened here - you people would truly understand.
> 
> ...



At least you found out about and he knows. Sorry to hear of your situation. You are much more forgiving than I ever could be.

Regards,

OWDU


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## blacktriangle (1 Mar 2010)

DFandE said:
			
		

> Meanwhile he's buying this WO Icecaps at Tim Hortons and "too busy" to call. The kids are worried about their dad, and he's doing his thing in Afghanistan. What a hero!



I just hope the good Maj ensured the _Privates_ under his command were in MOPP 4 gear...


----------



## GAP (1 Mar 2010)

Good on you for working it out DFandE...............not easy, but people make stupid mistakes. Love the comeback on comparing notes.... ;D


----------



## TFLY (1 Mar 2010)

> That being said, I will continue to date as required, but nothing serious



As Required...that's funny.   ;D


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## DFandE (9 Mar 2010)

Loving the picture re: " Afghanistan - experiences may vary." 
Oh that's too funny - and realistically tragic. 
I'm grateful the female WO clerk that enjoyed my husbands company in KAF wasn't in this picture - I think I would have fainted. 

I feel for anyone who has experienced this sort of betrayal. I think I said that before. Regardless, I truly do. For the spouses on tour or TD  etc. who are cheated on while they're away my heart goes out to you. For those who kept the "homefires burning" I feel your pain. 

What the heck do we have to do to find people who are sincere and trustworthy in this military world? E-Harmony Military Style?

Question 1: Would you have an affair while deployed or while your spouse was deployed?


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## SoldierInTheMaking (9 Mar 2010)

I don't mean to rant on about this but things were resolved I guess you could say, and my girlfriend left me. This is the second time she left me since my last rant about this, there will definitely not be a third..it's time to focuss on me. I try and keep a positive attitude and not think about it but everything happens for a reason, right? I'm still young, there will be plently more I'm sure


----------



## DFandE (9 Mar 2010)

Johnson101 said:
			
		

> I don't mean to rant on about this but things were resolved I guess you could say, and my girlfriend left me. This is the second time she left me since my last rant about this, there will definitely not be a third..it's time to focuss on me. I try and keep a positive attitude and not think about it but everything happens for a reason, right? I'm still young, there will be plently more I'm sure



One thing I'm positive about is your youth. Trust an old Army Wife here...it's much easier to take in your younger years than when you're older and have invested half your life into a relationship. 

I don't know about everything happening for a reason, but I do know one thing - Sometimes, people are on earth just to remind us how we SHOULD NOT behave! 

When you meet a new girl - watch her behaviour around your friends...does she flirt with them etc. if she does - runaway - she's one of those women who is an "attention hog". If she's not getting the attention from men she's not happy and if you're deployed she's going to have the same behaviours. 

Once burned twice shy - it might take a while before you can trust again. It's taken me years and I still don't trust my cheating husband - not like I did before at any rate.  Try not to carry this baggage with you - try to keep it as "lessons learned"...be upfront with future prospects. "I was with a girl and this is what happened and it's not going to happen again."  Sort of spiel. Lay it out and be upfront. You're not going to be a victim to this kind of behaviour again. 

My husband is very aware of where he stands. Yes I love him. Yes I like him. One mistake like this - forgivable - a second time...I'll forgive him but he won't be in my life anymore.  I might be a 40 year old army wife -  but I'm not afraid of being alone. That's what made me a good army wife to begin with, being independent!! 

So chin up buddy! Move forward and let the experiences of the past make you wiser in the future! That's what I'm trying to do...easier said than done!  :nod:


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## MaDB0Y_021 (12 Mar 2010)

Man, I got to say...

Reading all those stories about men/women being cheated on just for some unknown reason scares the living crap out of me, man... I mean... That ain't funny at all. And I think what scares me is if she would have the guts to tell me that, in fact, she cheated on me while I was away or keep it secret and I would be the one to catch her...

Anyway, man. This is a nice thread. Shows a reality. But still...This is messed-up.


----------



## vonGarvin (12 Mar 2010)

[injecting reality]
When I was in KAF, I'm certain that there were shenanigans going on.  Of the 2500+ Canadians there, I'm pretty sure that maybe upwards of 10 or even 15 people were cheating on someone.  Heck, maybe even as high as 100.  OK, let's assume 100.  That's 1 out of 25 people, or 4%.  In other words, this whole thing is like the media: only the bad gets reported.  And I'm pretty sure that infidelity occurs in Canada outside the military, maybe even at the same rate.  In other words, it happens, and it hurts when it does, but when it happens "over there", it hurts maybe more.  But it's not like everyone in KAF is one big orgiastic love-fest for 6-9 months
[/reality]


----------



## PMedMoe (12 Mar 2010)

TV, I'm with you.  It's not just going to Afghanistan, or to the field or on course or even being in the military.  It's _people_ who cheat on each other.  Sometimes, you can forgive them, sometimes, you can't.  Either way you get on with your life.  Everytime this thread dies down, I think "Good, let it go dormant" and then it starts back up again.  I don't know, maybe people like the anonymity of the site to air their feelings.  ???


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## DFandE (16 Mar 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> TV, I'm with you.  It's not just going to Afghanistan, or to the field or on course or even being in the military.  It's _people_ who cheat on each other.  Sometimes, you can forgive them, sometimes, you can't.  Either way you get on with your life.  Everytime this thread dies down, I think "Good, let it go dormant" and then it starts back up again.  I don't know, maybe people like the anonymity of the site to air their feelings.  ???



You're right, it's not just happening in Afghanistan - but when it does happen there - the knife goes that much deeper. The spouse at home feels like a shmuck - putting up yellow ribbons - keeping the home fires burning - sleepless nights worried like hell...etc. etc. If it happened on TD, or at home it wouldn't feel like such a betrayel. I think it's quite shocking that people would risk their families and their careers by having "extra-marital sex" in KAF of all places...not to mention just plain stupid.

Apparently this thread makes you feel uncomfortable ???. People like to air their feelings period...and why shouldn't they also enjoy the anonymity of the site. It can be quite healing to connect with other people in the same situation. 


A thread won't die as long as people are experiencing this sort of betrayal for the first time. And what a better place to bring it to the surface than an army forum. If you wrote anything like this on a civy forum they'd scream "Leave him." they don't understand military life and how much is invested in being a "good military spouse". 

Who would have  thought of KAF as having an orgy inducing atmosphere.  : 

You'd be surprised at the amount of private messages that are sent out because of this thread. Let's just say, this thread might be a "necessary evil"... :nod:


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## PMedMoe (16 Mar 2010)

DFandE. the thread doesn't make me "uncomfortable".  I just think it's stupid.  As a friend of mine says, it's one of those "agony aunt" type of threads.  If you'd rather get support and/or sympathy from unknown sources, fill yer boots.

Personally, I don't see where someone cheating in KAF is any more of a "betrayal" than if they did it on TD.  Obviously, opportunity and willingness were there, either way.  Also, I have my doubts that some of these people are experiencing it for the "first time".  It may be the first time they found out about it.

Here's a eye-opener for you.  Sometimes, being away gives the person a different perspective on their life and time to think.  I went to Germany for 7 months and realized I was not _in_ love with my (now ex) spouse.  Did I cheat on them?  No, but it took being away for me to realize that.

Oh, and KAF has anything but an orgy inducing atmosphere.  Trust me, I was there with my spouse.


----------



## DFandE (16 Mar 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> DFandE. the thread doesn't make me "uncomfortable".  I just think it's stupid.  As a friend of mine says, it's one of those "agony aunt" type of threads.  If you'd rather get support and/or sympathy from unknown sources, fill yer boots.
> 
> Personally, I don't see where someone cheating in KAF is any more of a "betrayal" than if they did it on TD.  Obviously, opportunity and willingness were there, either way.  Also, I have my doubts that some of these people are experiencing it for the "first time".  It may be the first time they found out about it.
> 
> ...



Not much of an eye opener - as I don't live in a cave and have watched many military families come to ruin over the past 27 years. Most of which were destroyed after a spouse had some time away from home. When we went on tour to Cyprus for six months it was an easy breazy tour - and if anything it made me realize my family needed to come first, so I got out to become a stay at home mom and support my husband's career.  I know both sides of this fence. I know what the military member goes through and I also know what it's like to be on the civy spouse side as well.

When I wrote that I wasn't aware about the orgy inducing atmosphere I should have said (insert sarcasm here) - next time I'll be more concise in my correspondence. 

I've perused a lot of this site - people ask for advice, complain,  tell their war stories all over it...but this particular thread is akin to an agony aunt thread? So you're comparing adultery in the military during active duty to a column in the newspaper about how to get along with in-laws. Interesting comparison.  Maybe you have a point,  you know what they say about the troops...if they're not whining they're not happy! I'm must be pretty darn happy!  ;D


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## PMedMoe (16 Mar 2010)

DFandE said:
			
		

> When I wrote that I wasn't aware about the orgy inducing atmosphere I should have said (insert sarcasm here) - next time I'll be more concise in my correspondence.


That's why I used the winky guy!


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## vonGarvin (16 Mar 2010)

DFandE said:
			
		

> Loving the picture re: " Afghanistan - experiences may vary."
> Oh that's too funny - and realistically tragic.


Slight OT, but I'm hating that picture.  Yeah, it's funny and all, but not realistically tragic.  We all can't be front line troops, getting shot at, shooting back, whatever.  Someone has to work at the HQ.  The dangers are still there, perhaps not as apparent or as statistically dangerous, and just as there are no orgies going on over there (Friday to Wednesday, anyway), not all "KAF-ites" live at Tim Hortons.  And I'm certain that the two depicted in the photo were as hard-working as anyone else.

[/rant]


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## armyvern (16 Mar 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Slight OT, but I'm hating that picture.  Yeah, it's funny and all, but not realistically tragic.  We all can't be front line troops, getting shot at, shooting back, whatever.  Someone has to work at the HQ.  The dangers are still there, perhaps not as apparent or as statistically dangerous, and just as there are no orgies going on over there (Friday to Wednesday, anyway), not all "KAF-ites" live at Tim Hortons.  And I'm certain that the two depicted in the photo were as hard-working as anyone else.
> 
> [/rant]



I feel the same way. I'm just waiting for someone to post a couple of pics of one of those "lady-Kaffites" depicted and inferred in the below pic as having such a kuchy go of it for her tour in "KAF" ... out there in the FOBs time was also spent in.

Funny that.


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## theoldyoungguy (19 Mar 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I feel the same way. I'm just waiting for someone to post a couple of pics of one of those "lady-Kaffites" depicted and inferred in the below pic as having such a kuchy go of it for her tour in "KAF" ... out there in the FOBs time was also spent in.
> 
> Funny that.



There are a lot of support personal I respect for their hard work and dedication. The vast majority of those jobs are required and deserve respect for there dedication. There are some that I have seen, litterally 20 hours a day for a week straingt so the boys can keep up with there op tempom to me that deserves respect. However there are those that work the standard 8-4, and have the opportunity to take there nights off and enjoy a lot of free time. I'm not saying there job wasnt needed nor am I bashing them, but when they get the same recognition and/or bitch and complain when they have to put in a couple extra hours, you can see why a front liner wouldn't take the griping so enthusiastically. Although this pussyfooting happens in every trade. Unproffessionalism is unproffessionalism regardless of where your personal AOR is.

I personally see the bigger issue as obesity in the CF. The fact that some canadian soldiers are grossly overweight walking around KAF does this country a disservice when the vast majority of soldiers outside the wire are fit. Sorry, I'm just a firm believer in the physical fitness requirements the CF has mandated. I see less of an issue with which trade you are and more of an issue with how effectively are you using your free time...


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## Kat Stevens (19 Mar 2010)

This thread was already headed for a slippery ride down a brass tube, the inevitable "I hate fat fuks" non sequitur just about seals the deal, I think.


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## theoldyoungguy (19 Mar 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> This thread was already headed for a slippery ride down a brass tube, the inevitable "I hate fat fuks" non sequitur just about seals the deal, I think.



Agreed.


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## Hepburn (14 Apr 2010)

I am also coming for the side of things where i waited at home for 6 months for the love of my life....he was deployed in 2008 and i cried myself to sleep every night, worried for his safety and for the men and women he was working side by side with... It wasn't until last weekend i saw his emails for the first time and realized he was cheating on me while he was over there...i'm still in shock. Never thought this would be us. The worst part is that he was able to look at me every day and tell me he loved me while knowing what he'd done. And even when i confronted him he kept on lying about it and got angry...it is truly heartbreaking. My heart goes out to all the soldiers and spouses who have been on the receiving end of such vile information. And for those who do wait and commit and love well, continue to do so....good will come


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Apr 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> This thread was already headed for a slippery ride down a brass tube, the inevitable "I hate fat fuks" non sequitur just about seals the deal, I think.



Close. It's not over until someone invokes Godwin's Law and compares the actions of their cheating spouse to that of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.


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## mariomike (14 Apr 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Close. It's not over until someone invokes Godwin's Law and compares the actions of their cheating spouse to that of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.



How is this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSsD4WLQJU


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## Sparkplugs (20 Apr 2010)

I'm a girl in Afghanistan right now, with a military hubby back home in Canada.  

Being a girl here is weird.... We aren't that few and far between, but some of these guys are not just here for a few months at a time, it can be upwards of a year or 14 months.  So the girls get ridiculous amounts of attention.  Some of it's just funny, some of it is gross.  I've had my rear end smacked, and my braids pulled, while someone says, "Ooo, handlebars!  Can I go for a ride?"

You just have to be strong and keep to your morals.  I know too many girls who flake out at all the attention and cheat on their boys back home.  It's not worth it.  I can't wait to go home and see my love again.  Of course I'm lonely, of course I miss him.  But enough to desperately need physical contact here?  No.

Nevermind that you feel dirty 10 minutes after a shower from all the dust, and you don't have time or the space to shave your legs...  I don't even want to have sex over here, hahaha, I just want to fix airplanes and get some sleep, and hope to not have a rocket attack that night.

It amazes me at the number of females in the bathrooms, every morning, blowdrying their hair, straightening it, using more makeup than I'd ever even consider wearing out to a bar or something, and wearing the least amount of clothes they can get away with.  I personally watched a girl try to get into one of the messes the other day, wearing a shirt with no sleeves, super tight, and so white as to be see-through, and rage and scream about discrimination when they wouldn't let her in.  Come on now, is that really necessary?  

Anyway, all I'm saying is that if someone is going to cheat, they'll do it in Afghanistan, and they'll do it in Canada.  I just wanted to be a female in the military, coming on here to say, "Hey, we're not all bad!"  Some of us are still old-fashioned and care about things at home.

And I don't believe in that "What happens on 'TD/Kaf/another area code' stays there" business.  I've told many a married man (and woman) to go home to his wife and be good.   It may be harder to keep a relationship healthy when one person is always off away somewhere, but it's definitely possible.

And my countdown is on for the end of this tour... only two more to go this year.  =p


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## armyvern (20 Apr 2010)

Sparkplugs said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> And my countdown is on for the end of this tour... only two more to go this year.  =p



Excellent post; and, laughing my girlie ass off at the close ...  ;D

You go girl!


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## Sparkplugs (20 Apr 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Excellent post; and, laughing my girlie *** off at the close ...  ;D
> 
> You go girl!



 ;D

Gotta keep myself amused here somehow!  Thank goodness for the internet being available, I'd be bored stiff without it!


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## GAP (20 Apr 2010)

pun intended?  ;D


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## Sparkplugs (21 Apr 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> pun intended?  ;D



Definitely would be if I was a dude!    ;D


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## Thrones (29 Apr 2010)

> I see this daily at CFLRS except the other way around...soldiers or want-to-be soldiers or going -to-be soldiers cheating on their spouses and boyfriends and girlfriends. It really sickens me. It's not the spouses fault they're seeing a cheating,lying, imbicile....



I actually have a question about this. Hubby is currently in basic, and I thought there was a strict no fraternizing policy? It does cross my mind from time to time, but I'm not overly worried about him cheating. If he's going to cheat, he would have already, and if he does he's not worth it anyway. If someone is caught fraternizing, isn't there some sort of punishment? I heard something about a fine, or possibly getting the boot, and if they have a spouse, a phone call home. Also... if there is a no frat policy, why are boxes of condoms being given out in class? lol. I suppose, they do get weekends eventually... just seems weird to me lol


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## George Wallace (29 Apr 2010)

Thrones said:
			
		

> .......... why are boxes of condoms being given out in class? ..........



 >

You aren't that big a war movie buff are you.  Condoms are issued out to keep the shooting end of the soldier's rifle from getting wet and rusting in the rain and wet conditions found in the Field.    ;D


90 per cent, or more, of Recruits ARE NOT married.


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## Bzzliteyr (29 Apr 2010)

Thrones said:
			
		

> Also... if there is a no frat policy, why are boxes of condoms being given out in class? lol. I suppose, they do get weekends eventually... just seems weird to me lol



The unfortunate reality of it is that even if people aren't SUPPOSED to fraternize, it does happen.  And the military and health Canada would prefer it if you did it protected rather than not so as to minimize the risks.

No one would want to have their significant other cheat on them, but would you want to be cheated on and then catch some lovely cooties from it?  I think not.


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## smale436 (29 Apr 2010)

Thrones said:
			
		

> I actually have a question about this. Hubby is currently in basic, and I thought there was a strict no fraternizing policy? It does cross my mind from time to time, but I'm not overly worried about him cheating. If he's going to cheat, he would have already, and if he does he's not worth it anyway. If someone is caught fraternizing, isn't there some sort of punishment? I heard something about a fine, or possibly getting the boot, and if they have a spouse, a phone call home. Also... if there is a no frat policy, why are boxes of condoms being given out in class? lol. I suppose, they do get weekends eventually... just seems weird to me lol



I could be wrong but when I went through Basic Training the term fraternizing seemed to be defined by our staff as more engaging in "activities" with other members of your platoon or staff. Although in our case there was stuff going on. Notably two single people who are now married for three years and are expecting their second kid. Guess not all bad comes out of it. However during their time on BMQ they seemed to get more fire pickets than others. Maybe it was the staff's silent way of dealing with it. 

As far as weekends, our staff couldn't give a rat's rear about what we did on the weekend. If staff were to see anything untoward happening I do not think they would make an ASSUMPTION on what is really happening and phone spouses. Never heard of anyone getting fined or the boot either from "fraternizing" with people, whether the other person was military or not.

Again regarding the condoms, single people have every right to fraternize with the opposite sex on the weekends. Maybe a non-single guy whose spouse is coming to visit will get usage out of the free ones if his spouse forgot to bring them. Plus he doesn't have to pay for them.


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## Thrones (29 Apr 2010)

Thanks CDNAIRFORCE.

As I said, I do realize that on weekends they're able to do whatever they want, I just kind of assumed I guess that they wouldn't promote it.  As for the fine, boot and phone call... someone could have just made that up. Either way, it's good to know how it really works.


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## PMedMoe (29 Apr 2010)

Thrones said:
			
		

> As I said, I do realize that on weekends they're able to do whatever they want, I just kind of assumed I guess that they wouldn't promote it.



It's not promoting sex, it's promoting SAFER* sex.   

Can't say "safe" as you can still catch some STIs even if a condom is used.


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## Altair (23 May 2010)

Thrones said:
			
		

> I actually have a question about this. Hubby is currently in basic, and I thought there was a strict no fraternizing policy? It does cross my mind from time to time, but I'm not overly worried about him cheating. If he's going to cheat, he would have already, and if he does he's not worth it anyway. If someone is caught fraternizing, isn't there some sort of punishment? I heard something about a fine, or possibly getting the boot, and if they have a spouse, a phone call home. Also... if there is a no frat policy, why are boxes of condoms being given out in class? lol. I suppose, they do get weekends eventually... just seems weird to me lol


As someone in basic right now, I can tell you that there is a fair amount of frat that goes on. Or cheating on spouses in general. As for getting caught, unless the two involved really didn't care about getting caught, they wouldn't be caught.

That all said, most of the married members of my platoon have remained faithful.


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## FastEddy (23 May 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> As someone in basic right now, I can tell you that there is a fair amount of frat that goes on. Or cheating on spouses in general. As for getting caught, unless the two involved really didn't care about getting caught, they wouldn't be caught.
> 
> That all said, most of the married members of my platoon have remained faithful.



Well on that note I'm sure you have raised the Bar on Comfort and Confidence with all the Spouses, both serving and at home.

Not that this is a realization or acceptance of the alledged fact, have you ever heard the expression "WHAT HAPPENS IN VEGAS, STAYS IN VEGAS".

You sound like the guy that would make those phone calls if you happen to discover a indiscretion of any of your Comrades.

Have a nice Day.


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## Michael OLeary (23 May 2010)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Not that this is a realization or acceptance of the alledged fact, have you ever heard the expression "WHAT HAPPENS IN VEGAS, STAYS IN VEGAS".
> 
> You sound like the guy that would make those phone calls if you happen to discover a indiscretion of any of your Comrades.



So, as an MP counseling someone that they should not be someone that reports infractions, how bad should the act be before you expect them to "drop a dime"?


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## George Wallace (23 May 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> As someone in basic right now, I can tell you that there is a fair amount of frat that goes on. Or cheating on spouses in general. As for getting caught, unless the two involved really didn't care about getting caught, they wouldn't be caught.
> 
> That all said, most of the married members of my platoon have remained faithful.



OK!  You contradicted yourself.  Are they cheating in general or are they remaining faithful?


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## Altair (23 May 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> OK!  You contradicted yourself.  Are they cheating in general or are they remaining faithful?


Well, using my platoon as a example, out of 11 married members of my platoon, there are 4 who are cheating on their spouses a fair amount. On a regular basis. Thus most of the married members have remained faithful.

If we're talking frat in general, I can personally name about 15 cases that I know of.

@Fasteddy Would I mention any of this to my chain of command or spouses of my platoon mates? No. It's not my place to do so. I was simply responding to a question that was asked, and gave my firsthand experience.


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## aesop081 (23 May 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> No. It's not my place to do so.



Yup. When you dig into other people's lives like that, all you get is dirty.


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## vonGarvin (23 May 2010)

As a reminder, and I ask anyone with more patience than I to find the links to the relevant sections of the NDA:
Fraternisation: Defined as an unauthorised personal relationship with someone who is your subordinate (or words to that effect)

Now, somewhere in the NDA, it states that it is your duty as a service member to report infractions of the NDA.  So, long story short, if MS Gladbottom and OS Snookums have a professional subordinate/superior relationship AND a personal relationship, and if you know this, then you WILL report it, or else YOU are guilty of an offense.  Etc and so forth.


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## Occam (23 May 2010)

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed this out yet.

"Fraternization" has only one definition under any CF regulations, and that is the definition under DAOD 5019-1:
_
Fraternization means any relationship between a CF member and a person from an enemy or belligerent force, or a CF member and a local inhabitant within a theatre of operations where CF members are deployed. _

Obviously, that definition does not apply in this discussion.

A "personal relationship" is defined as:

_an emotional, romantic, sexual or family relationship, including marriage or a common-law partnership or civil union, between two CF members, or a CF member and a DND employee or contractor, or member of an allied force_

I think what everyone is referring to is called an "Adverse Personal Relationship", which is also defined under the same DAOD as:

_If a personal relationship has a negative effect on the security, cohesion, discipline or morale of a unit, the personal relationship is considered adverse for the purpose of this DAOD._

It goes on to say:

_Administrative action shall be taken to separate CF members who are involved in an adverse personal relationship.

If an adverse personal relationship cannot be changed within the applicable unit/sub-unit for the CF members in a supervisor/subordinate relationship, the CF members shall be separated by attached posting, posting, change in work assignments or other action.

Such a separation is not punitive in nature, nor shall there be a negative stigma or career implication towards the CF members._

I don't think there's anything under the NDA dealing with the old, traditional meaning of "fraternization".


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## stealthylizard (23 May 2010)

What happens on weekends is what happens on weekends.  If it occurs on weekdays, it can result in disciplinary actions being taken.  In RFT, 2 people were caught fraternizing during the weekdays in the Mega after lights out, and were separated, one being sent to PAT, and other staying in RFT.  They were both eventually charged for conduct unbecoming.


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## FastEddy (24 May 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> So, as an MP counseling someone that they should not be someone that reports infractions, how bad should the act be before you expect them to "drop a dime"?



I just love the way you experts and Holy'r Than Thou twist and read into quotes  insinuations or your point of view. in this case, I'm discouraging the reporting of Crimes.

If I saw someone Breaking into a house, I'd arrest them, If I saw someone Sexily assaulting a Minor, I'd arrest them, If I saw a person committing any other Felony, I'd arrest them.

BUT IF I SAW YOUR WIFE GETTING IT OFF IN THE BACK SEAT OF A CAR WHILE YOU WERE DRUNK IN THE MESS and there wasn't enough Evidence to support an Indecent and Lude Act in a Public Place, I'd figure this guy has enough problems. But by your reasoning and insinuation, I should go into the Mess, tap you on the shoulder "GUESS WHAT PAL !!!"

As far as when to drop a dime, you should be thankful we are Trained and 
KNOW when to. Or we'd need a lot more Detention Barracks.















i


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## aesop081 (24 May 2010)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> They were both eventually charged for conduct unbecoming.



The Canadian term is " CONDUCT TO THE PREJUDICE OF GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE " , section 129 of the NDA , QR&O Volume 2, article 130.60.


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## Michael OLeary (24 May 2010)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> I just love the way you experts and Holy'r Than Thou twist and read into quotes  insinuations or your point of view. in this case, I'm discouraging the reporting of Crimes.
> 
> If I saw someone Breaking into a house, I'd arrest them, If I saw someone Sexily assaulting a Minor, I'd arrest them, If I saw a person committing any other Felony, I'd arrest them.
> 
> ...



If you think your comments are being taken out of context, then you haven't presented them clearly enough. Maybe you should learn to explain yourself more clearly when you post on the internet, and you can dispense with the immature attitude when someone calls you on your comments.


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## Neolithium (24 May 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> Well, using my platoon as a example, out of 11 married members of my platoon, there are 4 who are cheating on their spouses a fair amount. On a regular basis. Thus most of the married members have remained faithful.
> 
> If we're talking frat in general, I can personally name about 15 cases that I know of.
> 
> @Fasteddy Would I mention any of this to my chain of command or spouses of my platoon mates? No. It's not my place to do so. I was simply responding to a question that was asked, and gave my firsthand experience.



I've taken a peek through this thread a few times since joining the forums; and my wife has read through it over my shoulder a few times as well since I'll be leaving soon - it has a lot of realistic information that has been brought up, though I'm not worried about her being faithful when I'm gone and neither is she for myself.  We've been together since we were 16, have 3 great kids together and I'm lucky to have a wife who fully supports me joining the Canadian Forces; will either of us stray throughout my career? Of course it's a possibility, however that possibility exists for me being killed by a meteor at some random time throughout my life also, doesn't mean that it will happen.  There is already a little extra stress on the relationship just due to the fact we're of course going to miss our cozy little family life while I take off to BMQ but we're both quite sure that it makes the time at home that much better when I get back.

And of course getting some of the things I need to take ready to go, she (as a joke) bought a big jar of vaseline and slapped it down on the table "That should last you at least until SQ, right?"  :rofl:


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## vonGarvin (24 May 2010)

Neolithium said:
			
		

> And of course getting some of the things I need to take ready to go, she (as a joke) bought a big jar of vaseline and slapped it down on the table "That should last you at least until SQ, right?"  :rofl:


:rofl:  That, a few packs of kleenex and a subscription to Club or Penthouse or some other "seedy" magazine  >


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## TFLY (24 May 2010)

:tsktsk: - LOL gross!  (I love it!)  HA!


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## stealthylizard (24 May 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The Canadian term is " CONDUCT TO THE PREJUDICE OF GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE " , section 129 of the NDA , QR&O Volume 2, article 130.60.



Yes, sorry, that is the proper Canadian term for it.


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## Thompson_JM (27 May 2010)

Neolithium said:
			
		

> And of course getting some of the things I need to take ready to go, she (as a joke) bought a big jar of vaseline and slapped it down on the table "That should last you at least until SQ, right?"  :rofl:



I'd recommend Baby oil... easier to use, plus you can make friends in the shacks giving foot rubs after those long PT sessions...   ;D


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## Neolithium (27 May 2010)

Tommy said:
			
		

> I'd recommend Baby oil... easier to use, plus you can make friends in the shacks giving foot rubs after those long PT sessions...   ;D


Or give everyone some for their feet and see who can run the longest distance before shattering their coccyx  :rofl:


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## Altair (28 May 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> I'm surprised that nobody has pointed this out yet.
> 
> "Fraternization" has only one definition under any CF regulations, and that is the definition under DAOD 5019-1:
> _
> ...


 I believe that at BMQ,any sexual relationship is classified as frat.


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## dangerboy (28 May 2010)

Altair said:
			
		

> I believe that at BMQ,any sexual relationship is classified as frat.



It may be referred to as frat but as the correct definitions are as Occam posted.  The majority of people when they say fraternization really mean personal relationship and on a BMQ both are against the rules.


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## Nuggs (28 May 2010)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> It may be referred to as frat but as the correct definitions are as Occam posted.  The majority of people when they say fraternization really mean personal relationship and on a BMQ both are against the rules.



Excert from the CFLRS joining instructions:



> 8.Fraternization and sexual intercourse are strictly forbidden on Saint-Jean Garrison’s premises. Make sure that you review the remainder of this package paying particular attention to the sections regarding sexual misconduct, harassment and personal relationship.


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## Occam (28 May 2010)

Crockett said:
			
		

> Excert from the CFLRS joining instructions:



I'm not quite sure why you posted that, as it supports what dangerboy stated.  The CFLRS joining instructions merely point out the rules in "civvie language", and direct you to the appropriate CF regulations for further details.


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## Scott (28 May 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure why you posted that, *as it supports what dangerboy stated.*  The CFLRS joining instructions merely point out the rules in "civvie language", and direct you to the appropriate CF regulations for further details.



I see the answer right in your post and I bolded it for you.


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## Occam (28 May 2010)

Scott said:
			
		

> I see the answer right in your post and I bolded it for you.



Sorry, it just looked a little odd to be using a locally drafted document to back up (or support) what a DAOD states.


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## Bzzliteyr (31 May 2010)

Speaking of "personal relationships", it seems we have an interesting case in the media right now with high level individual being relieved of his command due to the inappropriateness of it!

I'm eager to follow this to see how many references the media make to "fraternization"...


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## Occam (31 May 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Speaking of "personal relationships", it seems we have an interesting case in the media right now with high level individual being relieved of his command due to the inappropriateness of it!
> 
> I'm eager to follow this to see how many references the media make to "fraternization"...



I'm just as curious to find out precisely what the investigation is hoping to reveal.

The DAOD states:  

_If an adverse personal relationship cannot be changed within the applicable unit/sub-unit for the CF members in a supervisor/subordinate relationship, the CF members shall be separated by attached posting, posting, change in work assignments or other action.

Such a separation is not punitive in nature, nor shall there be a negative stigma or career implication towards the CF members._

So it's clear that the removal from command is an administrative action - what's not clear is why the press is going on about a possible CM, bearing in mind the text in yellow above?  (Unless there are other regulations in play here that I haven't considered...)


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## owa (12 Aug 2010)

jessica21 said:
			
		

> I am engaged to a proud soldier currently stationed in Kaf. I do have a concern that I would like to share. When he calls, all he tells me about is how guys are cheating on their wives, wives are cheating on their husbands, but openly. He says that the wives here in the states and the guys there, have agreed to cheating. I have seen my dad go and come back twice and I KNOW that my parents would NEVER consent to something like that. My finance' has also shared with me how many female soldiers have tried to "get with him", he says that he tells them that he is engaged and their reply is "what happens in Kaf, stays in Kaf", I sometimes wonder, should I just let him go, have his fun, and when he comes back home, and if its meant to be, we will find each other again.
> Im doing my internship at Womack in NC and have no intention of cheating. He tells me all the time, that he doesnt either, but if that is the case, why would he continue to tell me the horror stories of cheating husbands and wives, To me, thats "need to know" information.



I just read this.

I know my response is likely quite late, but I've really just started going through this thread (from newest posts to latest... so backwards)...

Anyway, I don't know this guy so it's hard to gauge, but he sounds like me in some ways.  I know I always tell my girlfriend all the stupid shit that goes on around me (I am a civilian, so this isn't military life).  If I go to a bar and a chick hits on me, or buys me a drink, or tries to get my number, I always tell the girlfriend the next day.  Not because I think she needs to know, but because it's usually a funny story, and I'll be honest, I want her to know she can trust me when I'm on my own.  She gets a laugh, and I get to reaffirm her trust in me.

I suppose the dilemma is two fold.  1.)  He could want you to give him approval to fool around, and 2.)  He might be guilty because he has fooled around and he just wants to make you feel like he hasn't (lying to himself almost).

I'm going to assume it's for the same reasons I tell my lady friend things, and not those two options I listed.


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## AF_Aviator (24 Jan 2011)

This is an older thread but I'll put my story in the mix as well, just to vent. Came back from tour, wife was having an affair with a military member. Divorce is imminent and those who will suffer most are my children.   Much more to it, but the basis of what I want to bring attention to is the military member who would do this. The opportunists, the vultures and predators who look for it. I think they should be released from OUR military. They are beyond counter-productive to our goals and our rights to peace of mind and quality of life. Release them as the burdens they are. My marriage wasn't in trouble, but it did require some re-connection. The vulture saw it and struck a month into my tour. The spouse at home will do as they choose, but I "Brother in Arms" should know better and be dealt with as a burden to the CF, release. If this is not conduct un-becoming then the CF I joined so many years ago is no longer itself. My 2 cents.


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## PuckChaser (24 Jan 2011)

Sorry to hear about all that happened to you, however the best you can hope for is karma. That, or members of this person's unit will find out what he did and they'll get sorted out.


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## captloadie (25 Jan 2011)

AF_Aviator said:
			
		

> This is an older thread but I'll put my story in the mix as well, just to vent. Came back from tour, wife was having an affair with a military member. Divorce is imminent and those who will suffer most are my children.   Much more to it, but the basis of what I want to bring attention to is the military member who would do this. The opportunists, the vultures and predators who look for it. I think they should be released from OUR military. They are beyond counter-productive to our goals and our rights to peace of mind and quality of life. Release them as the burdens they are. My marriage wasn't in trouble, but it did require some re-connection. The vulture saw it and struck a month into my tour. The spouse at home will do as they choose, but I "Brother in Arms" should know better and be dealt with as a burden to the CF, release. If this is not conduct un-becoming then the CF I joined so many years ago is no longer itself. My 2 cents.


This is a horrible thing to happen, but not at all uncommon. And it is not just the vultures who stay behind who are to blame. How many guys/gals become "tour couples", then go back to their spouses. Is it a sign that we are not meant to be monogamous, or the declining state of our moral values.


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## tuffbutterfly (27 Jan 2011)

captloadie said:
			
		

> This is a horrible thing to happen, but not at all uncommon. And it is not just the vultures who stay behind who are to blame. How many guys/gals become "tour couples", then go back to their spouses. Is it a sign that we are not meant to be monogamous, or the declining state of our moral values.



This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality.


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## Scott (1 Feb 2011)

tuffbutterfly said:
			
		

> This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality.



If you decide that he's going to cheat, or at the very leasy suspect that he might, based on what you read here - and before he even leaves, mind you, then I suspect that no amount of fidelity and "proof" will save you. Why are you so concerned? You offer nothing to substantiate your "nauseating" feeling.

Lawyers cheat, high school teachers cheat, hell, even some clergy have been caught cheating. And it doesn't take a deployment to another country to give a person the opportunity. Membership in the CF does not equate to a person being a philanderer, nor does deployment.

Sorry, but I think you're way, way off.


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## armyvern (1 Feb 2011)

tuffbutterfly said:
			
		

> This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality.



On the other side of the coin (& frequently forgotten by those at home):

He will be in exactly the same circumstances as you. YOU will have 2 lives - one with him and one without him. And cheating happens in Canada too by those at home.

Should he be as concerned about you doing that as you seem to be about him doing it?

Bet you haven't brought up the above "fact" to him though.

That's where trust comes in. THAT's the _*actual *_reality of the situation.


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## Anny (1 Feb 2011)

tuffbutterfly said:
			
		

> This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality.



I would think if you are having martial issues (by that I mean more serious issues, as everyone who is married has some maritial issues) would not the member dag red?  Maybe your hubby shouldn't go on tour and spend time repairing your marriage?  I'm not telling you what to do, just suggesting an option.


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## ExquisitelyChic (21 Oct 2012)

Gunnie said:
			
		

> Military wives/gfs/partners should know even before they start a relationship that this job is tough, and you're going to go away for periods at a time. It isn't your fault at all, Patriot, she obviously doesn't deserve someone as good as you.



Some of us didn't get a choice in the matter. I'm not saying I'm going to cheat on my fiance. However, he joined three and a half years after we got together. So I'm doing my damndest to get through the bullshit of training so I can keep what's been so great the past 4 years now. It's hard, some days I desperately want to quit. That's the hardest part for me. I didn't choose the military, I chose him.


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## MikeL (21 Oct 2012)

ExquisitelyChic said:
			
		

> So I'm doing my damndest to get through the bullshit of training



bullshit of training is a bit harsh 

Also,  something to consider,  once your spouse is finished the initial training,  the training doesn't end there.  Depending on trade/unit he could be away on exercise anywhere from 1 week to 2 months.  Also there will be other courses to attend some may be in the area,  others could involve having to go to another base.  Just something to prepare yourself for.


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## aesop081 (21 Oct 2012)

ExquisitelyChic said:
			
		

> Some of us didn't get a choice in the matter.



Please. You had a choice.




> So I'm doing my damndest to get through the bullshit of training



After that will be the "bullshit" of more training, more training and more training. The "bullshit" of exercises, other courses and multiple times away. Followed by the "bullshit" of deployment after deployment........




> I didn't choose the military, I chose him.



So when he came home on day and said "honey i think i want to join the military" you said "frig no you're not !" ? Or did you say "honey if that's what you want to do, i support you" ?

 :


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## armyvern (21 Oct 2012)

Bang on Aviator.

I get so sick of the bullshit about "training causes infidelity" posts. 100% bullshit.

Fact is, for every deployed soldier who fucks around on his/her significant other while deployed, training or on course ...

Judging by my experience in Petawawa while Units were in the field and their wives/girlfriends were trolling the local dive-bars, there's an equal number of significant others who are fucking around on their deployed, training or on course soldier.

If people are going to fuck around, they will. Period. It doesn't matter who they are, where they are, or what manner of employment they happen to have.


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## Popurhedoff (21 Oct 2012)

The better part of my first 20 years in the Military I was so saint, no excuses, I was the problem and the marriage ended, and my career was in limbo.  Later I met someone who picked me out of the gutter and cleaned me up, She gave me all the reasons to want and be good.  My career started to accell again and to this day I am a changed man. I love my Wife, she knows what I was, I held no secrets back. She is a trooper, held down the homestead while I was deployed and again now that I work over here again.  We always have a choice and it is within us to make the right decisions.  I am a changed man, healthly, happy and very committed to making this last for a lifetime.

But you have to commit, no lapses in judgement, no excuses period.  Now we are the happiest couple, her and I against the world and not a single regret.

Cheers
Pop


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## 2 Cdo (22 Oct 2012)

Popurhedoff said:
			
		

> But you have to commit, no lapses in judgement, no excuses period.  Now we are the happiest couple, her and I against the world and not a single regret.
> 
> Cheers
> Pop



Excellent advice. 20+ years with my wife with numerous deployments and not a hint of infidelity by either of us. Marriage isn't easy, especially in the Forces, and it does take hard work to make it successful by both partners. Those not willing to work hard at it are doomed to failure.


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