# Canadians and the Enigma Machine



## ChaosTheory (17 Apr 2011)

I am writing a brief on the engima machine and I am able to find a bunch of general information on how it works, the history etc etc

What I am lacking on information is, where the Canadians at all involved with Enigma?  I know there was the "Ultra" Project running out of Britain with very few people in the know on it.  Were there any Canadians?  

Thanks


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## AJFitzpatrick (18 Apr 2011)

Sir William Stephenson got to read the decrypts... but that doesn't really count...


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## ModlrMike (18 Apr 2011)

You could do an ATI request, but time is likely not on your side. I believe that some of the Polish mathematicians that contributed to breaking the code were sheltered in Canada. You could also try the War Museum. They have one on display and may be able to offer some assistance.


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## Old Sweat (18 Apr 2011)

A few officers at Headquarters First Canadian Army including the commander, chief of staff and some of the senior intelligence staff as well as the Commander 2nd Canadian Corps were cleared to receive Ultra information. I don't know if this is what you are after, but it might help.


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## MarkOttawa (18 Apr 2011)

http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp343-e.htm



> ...
> HISTORY OF THE CSE
> 
> The CSE has its roots in cryptographic and cryptanalytical developments during World War II. It was established in June 1941 as the Examination Unit of the National Research Council and was located in the house next to what was then the Prime Minister's residence on Laurier Avenue in Ottawa. It was felt that in this location the necessary security precautions would not attract undue public attention. For the first part of its existence, the Examination Unit was given particular responsibility for intercepting and analyzing the communications of Vichy France and Germany. With the entry of Japan into the Second World War, the Unit was also given some responsibility for the decryption of that country's communications. It is estimated that by 1944 the Examination Unit had 45 staff members, among whom were a number of classicists and chess players, people capable of thinking in cypher.(3)
> ...



In fact the Unit was controlled by External Affairs:
http://www.rcsigs.ca/ViewPage/History/Cracking-the-Code/Page/2/



> ...
> The Canadian Examination Unit, under the leadership of noted American cryptanalyst Herbert Osborne Yardley of The American Black Chamber infamy, commenced operations in June 1941 with a very small inter-departmental staff of nine (on loan to the unit were personnel from the N.R.C., the Army, Cable Censorship, the Post Office Department, and the RCMP). 22 Interestingly, in order not to raise the ire of U.S. or British SIGINT organizations of the day, Yardley worked in Canada under the name Herbert Osborne (he was reviled and still much maligned by the U.S. and Britain for disclosing SIGINT secrets in his 1931 book). Yardley's employment was ultimately terminated after six months, once both countries found out that he was working for the Canadian cryptanalytic cause and pressured Canada - on the overt threat of breaking rapidly expanding SIGINT relationships - for his removal. 23 Thus in mid-1941 began the close working relationship between the External Affairs-controlled Examination Unit and the Canadian Army. Aside from Army personnel who were seconded to the unit Army Special Wireless Stations and, later in the war, listening sites of the RCN and RCAF, provided intercepted traffic - initially German 'illicit', then Vichy French and Japanese - to the Examination Unit, who analyzed (e.g. decrypted, translated) the material and were thus able to feed "a continuous stream of intelligence to the Department of External Affairs and to the Directors of Intelligence." 24..



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (18 Apr 2011)

Lots more on Canadian SIGINT in WW II here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0YLJFlVQFoAC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=canadian+navy+enigma&source=bl&ots=H9BkE_s1at&sig=bUht_rLCSbrfkhYIKOScHJGDadU&hl=en&ei=GVmsTebvK5DTgQfrxYz0BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=17&ved=0CHYQ6AEwEA#v=onepage&q=canadian%20navy%20enigma&f=false

It seems pretty clear the RCN had access to enigma material:
http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/explore/resources-for-scholars/essays/military-history/roger-sarty/canada-and-submarine-warfare-1909-19507



> > ...
> > 47. The best general accounts of intelligence in the Battle of the Atlantic are F.H. Hinsley, British Intelligence in the Second World War: Its Influence on Strategy and Operations (3 vols. in 4 pts: Cambridge 1979-88); Patrick Beesly, Very Special Intelligence: The Story of the Admiralty's Operational Intelligence Centre 1939-1945 (London 1977). See also David Kahn, Seizing the Enigma: the Race to Break the German U-boat Codes, 1939-1943 (Boston 1991); Bradley F. Smith, The Ultra-Magic Deals and the Most Secret Special Relationship, 1940-1946 (Novato, Cal.1993). On Canadian aspects see John Bryden, Best Kept Secret: Canadian Secret Intelligence in the Second World War (Toronto 1993) and especially Catherine E. Allan, 'Building a Canadian Naval Operational Intelligence Centre 1939-1943' in A Nation's Navy, 157-72.



Mark
Ottawa


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## Retired AF Guy (18 Apr 2011)

Somewhere in a closet somewhere I have photo's of actual Enigma machines. If I can find them I will post them.


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## MarkOttawa (18 Apr 2011)

Naval Museum of Alberta (Calgary) has one:
http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/city/story.html?id=91a098d9-0970-485a-bfde-36cbe336cdfa







Some photos here from Canadian War Museum:
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/navy/galery-e.aspx?section=2-E-2-a&id=10

Mark
Ottawa


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## vonGarvin (18 Apr 2011)




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## MarkOttawa (19 Apr 2011)

UK/US cooperation:
http://www.turing.org.uk/turing/scrapbook/ukusa.html

Markj
Ottawa


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## littleprairie (20 Apr 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography

How Enigma functions. What type of cryptographic key it uses...etc.


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## Red Devil (20 Apr 2011)

Sareon said:
			
		

> I am writing a brief on the enigma machine and I am able to find a bunch of general information on how it works, the history etc etc
> 
> What I am lacking on information is, where the Canadians at all involved with Enigma?  I know there was the "Ultra" Project running out of Britain with very few people in the know on it.  Were there any Canadians?
> 
> Thanks



Try contacting the people at Bletchley Park. This is their website http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/hist/wartime.rhtm . If anyone knows the full history of the Enigma machines I'm sure the people at Bletchley will have answers for you. 

Good luck.


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## littleprairie (21 Apr 2011)

"Sermon" for the day: If you are like Alan Turing whose ingenuity led to the cracking of the codes in the Enigma machine, don't let it get into your head. Or else you're FIRED! just like him. Don't be like him..Respect authority and play along with them all. You are not God.


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## AJFitzpatrick (22 Apr 2011)

Was bedeutet Respekt Behörde haben, um mit Enigma-Code zu brechen tun?


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## littleprairie (22 Apr 2011)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> Was bedeutet Respekt Behörde haben, um mit Enigma-Code zu brechen tun?



To be translated in English from German, "what does respect, competent public authority have to do with breaking the Enigma code?

Answer: It was not directed to you, Sir. It was directed to my peers at Ter____ .


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## Pusser (22 Apr 2011)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> Sir William Stephenson got to read the decrypts... but that doesn't really count...



Why doesn't that count.  Stephenson was a key player in Allied intelligence and he was Canadian.  

Another place to look would be the history of Camp X, which was in Ontario.


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## AJFitzpatrick (23 Apr 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Why doesn't that count.  Stephenson was a key player in Allied intelligence and he was Canadian.
> 
> Another place to look would be the history of Camp X, which was in Ontario.



I took the question to mean Canadian involvement in the decryption itself rather than using the results of the decryption.


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## MarkOttawa (25 Apr 2011)

There were also the Colossi to deal with the Lorenz _Geheimschreiber_ teletype--very good book:
http://www.amazon.com/Colossus-Electronic-Computer-Popular-Science/dp/019284055X

Mark
Ottawa


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