# What does "Excused Duties" actually mean?



## jeffb (16 Apr 2012)

Is excused duties the same thing as bed rest? Further to that, if someone is on a 2 day excused duties chit and they are out at the bar that night hitting it hard, is there not a charge in there somewhere?


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## X Royal (16 Apr 2012)

Only the person who actually issued the chit could answer that.
The chit only states the person is not required to report on duty. Does not necessarily mean bed rest. 
They may have been given further directions by the MO which they may or may not be violating.


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## medicineman (16 Apr 2012)

In theory Excused Duty means you're supposed to be at home sick...however, as they came out and told us a few years back we weren't allowed to use "Sick in Quarters" any more because it sounded punitive, we don't.  It's left up to the individual's chain of command to deal with their members if they seem to be violating the spirit or actual direction of their restrictions.  A case in point - a saw a fellow in Kingston a number of years back, gave him 2 days Ex D, then ran into him later in the day with a Large Timmy's in hand while I was doing a supply run to Staples...and seemed alot better than he had been letting on that he was.  I told my Sgt, who promptly called his MWO...and I made a formal note to file and to my Sgt that I'd be refusing to see this guy ever again unless he wandered in with his arm hanging off since I couldn't trust him any more.  He was called into his MWO's office over this and I believe admin measures were taken, as he was a frequent flyer at the MIR.

Hope that helps.

MM


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Apr 2012)

Is there a difference between Sick Lve and Excused Duties?


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## PMedMoe (16 Apr 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Is there a difference between Sick Lve and Excused Duties?



Usually Sick Lve is for an extended period (e.g. post surgery).


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Apr 2012)

Ack.  So is there a difference in the "expected actions of the mbr" on either of those?


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## PMedMoe (16 Apr 2012)

Depends on the reason for the Sick Lve.


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## OldSolduer (16 Apr 2012)

The CF Leave Manual is rather vague on the subject of Sick Leave.


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## the 48th regulator (16 Apr 2012)

Would there not be any MELs also listed, to give guidance on what the mamber is only capable doing?

dileas

tess


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## PMedMoe (16 Apr 2012)

Not on an excused duty chit.  That would be for light duties.

I would imagine that the Leave Manual has to be vague on Sick Leave.  Every situation can be different.  Too many to specify.

If someone is on excused duties and you see them out partying or whatever, then report it up the CoC.  Don't get too crazy though, sick or not, people still have to pick up groceries, etc.  Also, it's going to depend why they're on excused duties.  Not all illnesses are physical.


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## DAA (16 Apr 2012)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Usually Sick Lve is for an extended period (e.g. post surgery).



Anytime the MIR issues you with a Chit which indicates "Excused Duty", you are then considered to be on Sick Leave.  At one time the MIR used to give you a leave pass, but now your section is required to raise a CF100 Leave Pass for "Sick Leave" and input the information into HRMS (PeopleSoft) based on the chit.  This way, it can be tracked.  

CF Lve Manual 6.1.01 - Sick leave "is granted for that period of time during which a member is unfit for duty but is not required to convalesce in an infirmary or hospital".  

The same principle holds true for those whose units "allow" them to "call in sick" which can be done to a max of 2 consecutive days, after which they should be going to the MIR if necessary or reporting in to work.  In my experience when people were considered to be abusing the call in privilege, they were so informed and ordered to report to the MIR in the future should the need arise.


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## medicineman (16 Apr 2012)

Sick Leave is given for 3 days or more of Excused Duty...usually MEL's are not attached as it's considered a "DUH!!" thing - the MEL's are in fact the sick leave.  If the person is able to work, the MEL's would spell out what they are able or not able to do.

I used to love using the Sick In Quarters square alot with students at schools and at RMC for two main reasons - if I thought they were pulling the wool over my eyes, they were given SIQ with meal and bathroom privileges only (sometimes over the weekend if they were looking for the Friday off) but the other thing it did was had the DS leave them alone in their rooms and not disturb them for stuff like inspections and such - the chit was pinned to the door and meant a subtle "Frig Off".  Also, if a cadet or member were caught violating said restrictions, disciplinary action could be taken - since it's difficult to charge anyone with malingering these days, but not AWA, this was a way around it.

To the OP, if you believe that someone was not well enough to go to work but well enough to go to the bar, follow it up.

MM


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## 211RadOp (16 Apr 2012)

When one of my soldiers comes to me with an Excused Duty chit, I ask them what the problem is if it is not an obvious injury.  They are of course allowed to not tell me if they wish, but usually it is for flu like symptoms.  If this is the case, they should be home sick so as not to contaminate other people and not wandering around the mall.

I have used administrative actions (IC) on a soldier before who had called in sick because of the flu and then posted pictures on FailBook showing them drinking at a bar later that same night.


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## OldSolduer (16 Apr 2012)

Not much get by an MO in an infantry bn or his Med Sgt. Excused duty was a rare thing. 

Tangent:  :warstory:

Back in the mid 90's there was a plethora of pers who were on "light duties". CSM Admin Coy went to the MO and asked how many could deploy to the field and work in the field kitchen as GD. There were enough that the other coys never had to supply GD for at least one exercise.


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## ModlrMike (16 Apr 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Not much get by an MO in an infantry bn or his Med Sgt. Excused duty was a rare thing.
> 
> Tangent:  :warstory:
> 
> Back in the mid 90's there was a plethora of pers who were on "light duties". CSM Admin Coy went to the MO and asked how many could deploy to the field and work in the field kitchen as GD. There were enough that the other coys never had to supply GD for at least one exercise.



Even in Fd Amb we would take light duties and some TCat pers to the field for GD or camp duties in Wainwright. You should have seen the panic set in.


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## OldSolduer (16 Apr 2012)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Even in Fd Amb we would take light duties and some TCat pers to the field for GD or camp duties in Wainwright. You should have seen the panic set in.


It didn't take long to have Sick Parade numbers dwindle. Any one that was on Light Duties was pretty legit.


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## PMedMoe (16 Apr 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> Anytime the MIR issues you with a Chit which indicates "Excused Duty", you are then considered to be on Sick Leave.  At one time the MIR used to give you a leave pass, but now your section is required to raise a CF100 Leave Pass for "Sick Leave" and input the information into HRMS (PeopleSoft) based on the chit.  This way, it can be tracked.



See, you _do_ learn something new everyday.   :nod:


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## TwoTonShackle (16 Apr 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> Anytime the MIR issues you with a Chit which indicates "Excused Duty", you are then considered to be on Sick Leave.  At one time the MIR used to give you a leave pass, but now your section is required to raise a CF100 Leave Pass for "Sick Leave" and input the information into HRMS (PeopleSoft) based on the chit.  This way, it can be tracked.



I have not drafted a CF 100 for members of our unit who receive MEL with excused duties, nor have I ever been directed to, (not that that means it is/isn't policy for other units).  However, when entering Excused Duties in Monitor Mass it is listed in the Personal Appointment options and not under Leave.  It does list as SICK in the members personal calendar though, which it is how we track it.  On a side note, lately it seems anyone going to the CDU's in Halifax get at least 1 day excused duty for simply walking through the door.

As for the question "what does excused duties mean" it simply means that your are not required to report to your place of duty for the duration of the MEL which is not to exceed 2 days.  Although, (as common sense is not so common), you must inform your CoC and provide them a copy of your MEL before you begin your excused duty.


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## medicineman (16 Apr 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Back in the mid 90's there was a plethora of pers who were on "light duties". CSM Admin Coy went to the MO and asked how many could deploy to the field and work in the field kitchen as GD. There were enough that the other coys never had to supply GD for at least one exercise.




We had pretty much the entire Bn deploy when I was in 2RCR for Royal Fist(ing) '02 - folks on category, even the "Unfit Field" crowd could be and were used in the 'B' Ech, since it was in Petersville, so technically not in the field.  Besides, there was a UMS minus co-located as well  ;D.



			
				TwoTonShackle said:
			
		

> I have not drafted a CF 100 for members of our unit who receive MEL with excused duties, nor have I ever been directed to, (not that that means it is/isn't policy for other units).



Sick Leave, when I was in Victoria, was done by the Medical Liaison section in the clinic, as Sick Leave has to be tracked - only so many consecutive days can be given by GDMO's, etc before being kicked up a command level (Base or Formation Surgeon or higher).  That section also kicked out SL/LD/TCat/Admission & Discharge messages to the Formations/Ships/Units and JPSU.  When I left Gagetown, it was done by the CDU clerk or the Clinic Orderly Room. 

MM


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## riggermade (16 Apr 2012)

Some units like to think they know more than the doc or surgeon...  I was a WO with an unnamed Bn in Petawawa and was on sick leave for foot surgury and they decided to try and mage me GDWO


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Apr 2012)

TwoTonShackle said:
			
		

> On a side note, lately it seems anyone going to the CDU's in Halifax get at least 1 day excused duty for simply walking through the door.



Hey thanks for the tip!   ;D  Long weekend coming up for me *cough cough*.

Although I will be on ED, I think its ok if I say, go fishing instead.  The air might help me feel better and get back on my feet quicker.  Afterall, the MO likley won't write "no fishing" on my chit, right?


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## medicineman (16 Apr 2012)

That's why I would have written "Sick in Quarters"  ;D...I remember a guy that was trying just for that in Calgary and got admitted, bed rest with bathroom privileges only, on IV fluids and also given enemas until clear.  He was discharged in time to make morning parade on the Monday morning and go to PT.  Diagnosis was written as Munchausen Syndrome (Pathological Malingering)...though just malingering would have sufficed.

MM


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Apr 2012)

I think the OP's question was answered way back at the begininig when it was stated the parameters are too broad to put a single constraint or reason to what Excused Duty entails.


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## ModlrMike (16 Apr 2012)

jeffb said:
			
		

> Is excused duties the same thing as bed rest? Further to that, if someone is on a 2 day excused duties chit and they are out at the bar that night hitting it hard, is there not a charge in there somewhere?



I'm not sure there's grounds for a charge. However, as limitations are a recommendation to the chain of command, the member can be ordered to present to the MIR to confirm the requirement for continued relief from work.


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## jeffb (16 Apr 2012)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the insight.


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