# Can anyone tell me exactly what this is?



## David Price (29 Jan 2005)

I was wondering if any of you can help me out?  Take a look at the picture below.  Is it an artillery shell?  Anti-tank shell?  What is it specifically?

My mother was storing it in her garage.  My late father obtained it from someone (I wish I knew who) who claimed it was a shell from WWII.  I was a little worried (as was she) that she was storing old ammunition in her garage, so I took it off her hands.  The main body of the shell is hollow, which I assume means that it has no high explosive in it and is a dud.  Just in case, however, I store the main body of the shell separate from the brass tip, which I assume houses the detonator.  There doesn't seem to be any shell casing attached.  

As you can probably tell, I know very little about such things.  What can I do about getting someone to certify that it is safe?  Can I take it to the local militia regiment and have it checked out?  I don't want to assume from a bunch of hearsay that the thing is safe.  

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Dave.


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## Big Foot (29 Jan 2005)

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it was a tank shell.


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## Jungle (29 Jan 2005)

We're talking about a serious safety issue here, so no guesses... we have a couple of ammo techs who frequent this site, let them handle this. I suggest you contact one of them.
Here's a link: http://army.ca/forums/members/3547


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## Armymedic (29 Jan 2005)

I am not an ammo tech, but looking at it, seems like an artillery shell. 

My opinion is based on the shape of the shell and the look of the fuse, which looks like a variable time fuse. Also from your discription of it being hollow suggests it may have been an illum type shell. Guestimating from the ruler next to the picture the shell dia is about 3.75 inches or about 92-100 mm. 

As I am no expert in WW2 artillery I can't do more then offer an opinion.

I would leave it in your mothers garage and ask someone to come to you and look at it. Let the experts transport it.


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## David Price (29 Jan 2005)

I have just done so.  Thanks for the info.


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## David Price (29 Jan 2005)

Sorry, my previous post was directed at Jungle.


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## Gunnerlove (29 Jan 2005)

If it is totally hollow and free of explosives you have a piece of steel with a time fuze (Not VT) screwed into the end.


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## Bomber (29 Jan 2005)

Looks like a round from a 25 pounder, maybe illum or smoke.


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## ibucephalus (4 Feb 2005)

> maybe illum or smoke.



Can a carrier shell have a boat tail? I thought they couldn't.


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## Bomber (4 Feb 2005)

Measure the width of the shell, also look for any markings, like numbers that would make ID a cinch.  Also, can you take some better pics of the fuze, specifically where it mates to the round?


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## George Wallace (4 Feb 2005)

Again, an non-expert steps in.....It is hollow with a VT fuse on it; so I would say it is probably Smoke BE (Base Ejection).   It has a "Driving Band" which may make it a Tank Round.

What colour is it?   What markings are on it? All questions that previous posters have asked.   That may answer a lot of questions.

What sort of background did your father have to acquire this round?

When dealing with any type of Military Munitions that you find in cases like this or on a Military Range; the first thing to do is DO NOT Touch it.   Stay away from it.   If there is any explosive charge in it, it may have deteriorated and become very unstable.   Sometimes, just casting a shadow over it could set it off (Sudden Change of Temp).   

Most important - Notify the proper authorities and they will send an expert to take care of it.   It may require Bomb Disposal.   If it is a legitimate 'souvenir' they will be able to tell you and ensure it is safe.   Any such munition that is made for display will have INERT stamped on it.

GW


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## Lance Wiebe (5 Feb 2005)

Whether artillery or tank, it is most certainly a carrier shell, for illumination or smoke BE, as others have stated.

I think it would almost certainly be a 25 pounder shell.

While it is undoubtedly safe, getting the shell inspected and certified "inert" should allow the more nervous types to rest easier.

I would hate to guess how many of those we drove over during our careers, eh, George?


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## aesop081 (5 Feb 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Again, an non-expert steps in.....It is hollow with a VT fuse on it; so I would say it is probably Smoke BE (Base Ejection).   It has a "Driving Band" which may make it a Tank Round.



Having a driving band does not automaticaly make it a tank round GW........


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## thebigfresh (9 Feb 2005)

defianatly an arty round.  it has a time fuze not a vt.  vt is disruptive and would have been destroyed as it functioned.  there are two types of time. igniferous(for expelling ammo such as illum or smoke or dpicm)  and disruptive(for bursting ammo such as wp or he).  this is probably and igniferous fuze as it didn't 'blow up' when it functioned.  unless it hasn't functioned then it could be a disruptive on a bursting round in which case you are in some danger.  in both cases being in posession of such an article is a federal offence.

tbf


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## thebigfresh (9 Feb 2005)

ok i just posted a message about the round in question.  I failed to read the entire para.  if the round is empty(hollow) such as you said,it is more than likely functioned.  A carrier shell for illum or smoke.. If you happen to live around suffield alta  and the round was lifted off this training base there may be some other issues you might want to consider.  even though this round has functioned it may still be harmfull.


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## AmmoTech90 (9 Feb 2005)

As several have mentioned, if you find ordance of any type that you are unsure of, contact your local police or military establishment.

It's an arty round, either 105mm or 25pdr.  Being boat tailed does not exclude it from being a cargo round.  As GW mentioned, smoke base ejection rounds are boat tailed.  I believe the OP meant that the inside was hollow, not that there was hole in the bottom.  This tells me it was an HE round that was steamed out or never filled.  However the fuze may still be live.  *There is a German practice round used in Shilo that has four or more detonators in it if I remember correctly, and this is on a practice round.  And they might not all function.*

It is not a VT fuze, it is a time fuze of some sort.  Using the term ignifierous to describe could be misleading as there are Time Igniferous fuzes which use a powder train as the timing mechanism.  There are usually fairly large vent holes in these types of fuzes to let out the smoke.  This is used on the 76mm Smk rnd, the No 390 fuze, for the Cougar.
Normally it would be stated if there is a booster on the fuze or not.  The same fuze mechanism may be used to either expell payloads (M577 Mechanical Time Superquick) or for HE/WP rounds (M582 MTSQ fuze).  It is the same fuze, with a HE booster screwed on in the case of the M582.

BTW the US uses the term Powder Train Time Fuze (PTTF) rather than Time Igniferous (TI).

A bit of UFI, the term Variable Time (VT) came about as a deception campaign to prevent the Germans from discovering that a Radio Range Finding (Radar) fuze was in development during the Second World War.

But remember, stray ammunition or unexploded ordnance kills enough of the people who are trained to deal with it.  Mark it and report it.


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