# Is this overtraining?



## blacktriangle (13 Jul 2008)

Hey guys,

So I have alot of time on my hands these days. 

I've been doing this workout where one component of it is aiming to do 1000 pushups a day Mon/Wed/Fri in sets of 50, and then once I get there I'll start trying to do it in as few sets as possible.

Is doing 3000+ pushups a week inadvisable? Right now I can certainly see improvement, and want to keep going. In addition to this I want to work up to 100 pull ups on the same day and I also do some dips and back extensions. On the other days I work legs, go running/rucking, and do 1000 situps and other ab things. 

Thanks in advance.


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## punkd (13 Jul 2008)

If your already use to working out, I wouldn't call it over training, but its not really proper training. 

Doing 3000 pushups is great, but without an equal workout for your back you are promoting injury later on down the road.

Why don't you try some crossfit workouts if pushups/situps/pullups is your thing?

Heres some examples..

"Cindy"
5 pullups
10 pushups
15 squats (just air squats, below parallel no weight)
Complete as many rounds in 20 minutes as you can.

..some of the Crossfit monsters are on the north side of 30 rounds for this workout.. give it a try. 

"Angie"
100 pullups
100 pushups
100 situps
100 squats
For time.. (perform these in order, no mixing up sets.)

I've seen sub 10 min times...

Also..

"Murph" 
With a 20lb vest (body armour)
Run 1 mile
100 pullups
200 pushups
300 squats
Run 1 mile
For time.. (break down sets as needed, pullups, pushups, squats can be completed in any order and can mix)

Now theses are only a couple examples of some "weightless" workouts and this is not only what crossfit is but its a few specific ones that require less equipment.

Time is your best competition, try and beat it.


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## Strike (13 Jul 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> 
> So I have alot of time on my hands these days.
> 
> ...



Although I think numbers like this are completely insane (For me anyway  ;D), they don't necessarily constitute overtraining until you reach the point where your ability to do the same numbers either gets harder or near impossible.  Track your workouts and results closely.  If it starts getting too hard to do something that used to be easy, start doing something else and stay away from this workout for awhile.


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## daftandbarmy (14 Jul 2008)

Sounds like you might as well go for the Guiness record while you're at it, seriously

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/pushups.html

Then forget the pushups, get an 80lb ruck on your back, find a 3000ft hill, and graduate to doing some real 'infantry' fitness training!  ;D


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## Fusaki (14 Jul 2008)

> I've been doing this workout where one component of it is aiming to do 1000 pushups a day Mon/Wed/Fri in sets of 50, and then once I get there I'll start trying to do it in as few sets as possible.



I'm calling bullshit.

20 sets of 50 pushups? A guy in decent shape will max out at one set of 50 proper push ups. Genetic freaks rarely pass 80 pushups in a single set. You're either not doing them right, you're a freak of nature, or you're bullshitting. Which is it?

I'm also going to call bullshit on your 80lb smallpack weight. 80lbs is not the kind of weight you throw in a smallpack and have it be more comfortable then a ruck. I'll be that the issued smallpack will fall apart with 80lbs in it.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/76951.15.html


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## Koenigsegg (14 Jul 2008)

Some professional fighters do 1000 per day.  I'm not sure how spread out they are, or how many per set.
Not being in, or knowing anything about the small pack, I back out now.


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## Fusaki (14 Jul 2008)

A guy who does 1000 push ups a day - professional or not - does not need to come onto army.ca and ask how his training is going. He'd have been doing it for long enough to know where he stands in relation to the rest of the human population.

This thread reminds me of that scene in Anchorman when Will Farrell tries to impress Tara Ried as she's walking over to his office. He runs over and grabs a dumbell and starts curling: "one thousand and one, one thousand and two.... oh! I didn't see you walk in. I was busy working out... I like to stay in shape, ya know..."


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## blacktriangle (14 Jul 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> A guy who does 1000 push ups a day - professional or not - does not need to come onto army.ca and ask how his training is going. He'd have been doing it for long enough to know where he stands in relation to the rest of the human population.
> 
> This thread reminds me of that scene in Anchorman when Will Farrell tries to impress Tara Ried as she's walking over to his office. He runs over and grabs a dumbell and starts curling: "one thousand and one, one thousand and two.... oh! I didn't see you walk in. I was busy working out... I like to stay in shape, ya know..."



I'm not even sure where to start.

If you read my post, you will see I'm WORKING my way up to 20 sets of 50, I add about 100 a week so my body can ease into it, and obviously i spread the sets out a bit, morning and night. I was attempting to ask if doing so long term would result in joint/muscle problems. I am going to give my body a week with no pushups or pullups to heal and just focus on other areas LIKE RUCKING to be safe. I thought army.ca might be an appropriate place to ask, I'm sorry I offended you.

As for your comment about genetic freaks only being able to do 80 pushups, I've seen guys do 100+ on tests administered by the PSP staff...as for the small pack weight, I'm not even going to address that as I did in another thread. I don't think you ever replied.

Anyways thanks for all the sarcasm and doubt, it is appreciated.


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## Fusaki (14 Jul 2008)

> If you read my post, you will see I'm WORKING my way up to 20 sets of 50, I add about 100 a week so my body can ease into it, and obviously i spread the sets out a bit, morning and night.



Seen.

I blame it on mondays.


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## dan005e (14 Jul 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> A guy who does 1000 push ups a day - professional or not - does not need to come onto army.ca and ask how his training is going. He'd have been doing it for long enough to know where he stands in relation to the rest of the human population.
> 
> This thread reminds me of that scene in Anchorman when Will Farrell tries to impress Tara Ried as she's walking over to his office. He runs over and grabs a dumbell and starts curling: "one thousand and one, one thousand and two.... oh! I didn't see you walk in. I was busy working out... I like to stay in shape, ya know..."



Tara Reid wasnt in Anchorman....


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## Fusaki (14 Jul 2008)

yikes, my mistake again.

It wasn't Tara Reid, it was the one who looks similar to Tara Reid - Christina Applegate.











Again, I'll blame it on a case of the grumpy mondays. :-\


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## Strike (14 Jul 2008)

Actually, to be acurate, Tara Reid looks like Christina Applegate, since CA is older.


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## blacktriangle (15 Jul 2008)

Thanks for the cute pictures.

One last thing could anyone tell me what the best ways to do rope climbs are? Tie a rope to a big tree or something? I live in a residential area and was thinking of rucking it to the trails and finding a good tree. I kind of have to do it away from my family since my uncle died in a rope climbing accident back in the day.

Oh and for anyone interested I've stopped doing high sets of pushups/pullups for the week to relax my joints and at some point find my new maximum reps.

Thanks again all.


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## daftandbarmy (15 Jul 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Thanks for the cute pictures.
> 
> One last thing could anyone tell me what the best ways to do rope climbs are? Tie a rope to a big tree or something? I live in a residential area and was thinking of rucking it to the trails and finding a good tree. I kind of have to do it away from my family since my uncle died in a rope climbing accident back in the day.
> 
> ...



Find a gym you can use that has ropes hanging from the roof, like a high school?


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## blacktriangle (15 Jul 2008)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Find a gym you can use that has ropes hanging from the roof, like a high school?



They aren't too commonplace anymore, knowing this after going to school at one place, and working in another...

and have you seen kids these days?


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## daftandbarmy (15 Jul 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> They aren't too commonplace anymore, knowing this after going to school at one place, and working in another...
> 
> and have you seen kids these days?



Yes I have, and I get your drift.

OK, so I've done lotsa of rope climbing in my days and I can tell you it's a pain in the posterior. Unless you're training for a particular course where rope climbing tests are mandatory (e.g., the Royal Marines Commando Course) I would strongly recommend a climbing gym as an excellent alternative. You don't even need to 'rope up', just boulder around a few feet off the floor. You could even do some real rock climbing if you want fun and exercise at the same time. And the last time I was at Squamish, two weeks ago, there were about a zillion little climbing hotties there as well - all of whom seemed to be able to climb at least three grades higher than me without breaking a sweat. Wonderful motivation for you young bucks - merely humiliating for old farts like me.

Climb on, dude.


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## weiss (15 Aug 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> I'm calling bullshit.
> 
> 20 sets of 50 pushups? A guy in decent shape will max out at one set of 50 proper push ups. Genetic freaks rarely pass 80 pushups in a single set. You're either not doing them right, you're a freak of nature, or you're bullshitting. Which is it?
> 
> ...



Wonderbread, I used to do over 120 pushups in one set, in fact I don't remember me ever being completely exhausted and quitting after 120 was just from sheer boredome.   I was either 19 or 20 yo in the navy.  Mind you I was doing 27-29 chinups as well, and I aint no genetic freak.  So it is very much possible for young ambitious fellow to do over 100.  How much doing them right is right? Those aren't very complicated moves.


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## AlphaQup (15 Aug 2008)

weiss said:
			
		

> Wonderbread, I used to do over 120 pushups in one set, in fact I don't remember me ever being completely exhausted and quitting after 120 was just from sheer boredome.   I was either 19 or 20 yo in the navy.  Mind you I was doing 27-29 chinups as well, and I aint no genetic freak.  So it is very much possible for young ambitious fellow to do over 100.  How much doing them right is right? Those aren't very complicated moves.


Man your pullups are killer. I've been lifting for a few years with free weights. Pushups are pretty easy to me but pullups..I can't even do one. Thankfully a member on this site sent me some advice. :cheers:


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## blacktriangle (15 Aug 2008)

Oh just an update since this got dredged up. 

I did my pushup program for about a month and a half, and now my single set max is about 20 pushups higher then it was before. I've taken a break from it for now just to give my body rest and am focusing more on pullups and chinups. I've been doing some pullups with a 25lb dumbell between my legs and it's quite challenging and fun. Volume seems to be key on most of these types of movements...


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## Jorkapp (15 Aug 2008)

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> Man your pullups are killer. I've been lifting for a few years with free weights. Pushups are pretty easy to me but pullups..I can't even do one. Thankfully a member on this site sent me some advice. :cheers:


Would you kindly forward that advice? I could sure use it.


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## AlphaQup (15 Aug 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Oh just an update since this got dredged up.
> 
> I did my pushup program for about a month and a half, and now my single set max is about 20 pushups higher then it was before. I've taken a break from it for now just to give my body rest and am focusing more on pullups and chinups. I've been doing some pullups with a 25lb dumbell between my legs and it's quite challenging and fun. Volume seems to be key on most of these types of movements...


Congrats on the improvement. But what do you do if you can't even do one pullup?? 


			
				AEC Kapp said:
			
		

> Would you kindly forward that advice? I could sure use it.


Done.


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## weiss (15 Aug 2008)

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> Man your pullups are killer. I've been lifting for a few years with free weights. Pushups are pretty easy to me but pullups..I can't even do one.



My pullups are at 12 these days.  I think with pullups every pound of bodyweight counts, I am lifting weights too and bulked up to 200#.  When I was younger I was smoker and superslim so I am questioning if pullups is true measure of anything.  If you cannot do even one then I think all you need is to cut some 10-15# - very doable.  You may be surprised with results.  Same with running speed and indurance, as you drop bodyweight you run faster and faster while your strength goes down the toilets.  That's why I personally not very concerned about my time on 1.5 miles anymore.


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## blacktriangle (15 Aug 2008)

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> Congrats on the improvement. But what do you do if you can't even do one pullup?? Done.



Weight to muscle ratio must have alot to do with it. I have never not been able to do a pullup or chin up since I can remember even into childhood. 

I've seen alot of bigger or weaker guys start off by doing sort of half chin ups...take it for whats it worth I'm small and lean 5'8 165...you might be alot better at other things then me. I'd start running if you don't already, swimming is great also as is biking.


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (24 Aug 2008)

One way of getting into doing chinups, for those who have a hard time completing even one repetition, is to start off with only negatives. Get a chair, bench or whatever and begin at the top (chin above bar) position. Negative strength is was greater than positive strength. After a few weeks of negative only training (given good rest and nutrition), one's strength to do a complete chinup should be there. To make things even move interesting and to cause further inroads into one's muscles, use a weight belt (with chain) and put on plates to add resistance (in 5 per cent increments when strength goes up - while somewhat arbitrary - above 12 rep set). Greater strength = more weight/reps = more rest required to allow for adaptation. Read Arthur Jones and Dr. Ellington Darden for more info on recovery ability and strength training.


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## apache2001 (24 Aug 2008)

Not a huge but rather strong biceps also helps when you do chin-ups.


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (24 Aug 2008)

True. Chinups are one of the top exercise to build biceps as well (not to mention the entire back because of the complete range of motion for the lats - unlike the wide pullups/pulldowns).


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## blacktriangle (25 Aug 2008)

Every other week I do my week's workouts with weighted pullups using a 25lb dumbell between my legs as I do them. Pretty effective.


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## weiss (25 Aug 2008)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> One way of getting into doing chinups, for those who have a hard time completing even one repetition, is to start off with only negatives. Get a chair, bench or whatever and begin at the top (chin above bar) position. .



another method is jumping.  Bar must be low enough so you can jump and with a bit of work do one chin, sort of taking-over from half way up, maintaining momentum.  From top down its nothing but negative rep.


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## MikeMacLeod (25 Aug 2008)

Reading your post and vaguely going over some of what people have said, they are right you need to balance it out work out your back muscles the same. if you have access do pull-ups.

What your are ultimately doing is endurance, you should also go for strength instead of limiting yourself at 50. Push to your max reps every once in a while never do the same amount of reps over and over try to keep your body guessing or else it will be more difficult to pass 50, that is if you want to pass 50.


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## ForsterFB (25 Aug 2008)

"My pullups are at 12 these days.  I think with pullups every pound of bodyweight counts, I am lifting weights too and bulked up to 200#.  When I was younger I was smoker and superslim so I am questioning if pullups is true measure of anything.  If you cannot do even one then I think all you need is to cut some 10-15# - very doable.  You may be surprised with results.  Same with running speed and indurance, as you drop bodyweight you run faster and faster while your strength goes down the toilets.  That's why I personally not very concerned about my time on 1.5 miles anymore."(Weiss, army.ca)

The way I understand it, pull-ups are a function of complete body fitness.  If you are strong through the abdominals, your ability to stabilize your body and move through the range of motion smoothly should go up.  That means you need less energy to perform your reps and lets your back and arms do the work they should be doing.  Your back is a massive player in this motion, it hits your traps, your lats, your deltoids, and your pec's.  

The final pull to get your head over the bar can be helped along by having strong biceps that pull you that last little bit.

If you are having trouble performing one rep, negative training is one good place to start.  Or you can go for fitness and use the machines in your gym to build that fitness (the ability to perform an action in large numbers) in all the muscles you need to use.  

Use the pull down machines and build your lat pulldown weights to hit your lats and traps.  Seated cable rows to hit your chest and back. Shoulder raises/french press to hit your triceps, deltoids, and smaller rotator cuff movers.  Captains chair/Dips for the abdominals and other stabilizers. 

Regardless of weight, as your fitness goes up your ability to perform will go up as long as you don't injure yourself.  Before anyone gets bent out of shape yes, your weight will/should fluctuate unless your already highly trained.  Just like running if you focus on cardio and not on strength then strength will go down and vice versa.  If you focus on hypertrophic strength training (meant to only grow big oxygen hungry muscles) with high weights and low reps your cardio will go down the toilet.  Balance and knowing what end goal you are aimed for is the important thing.

Push-ups hit alot of the same muscle groups as pull-ups only to a lesser degree and can help increase your overall body fitness.  As a result push-ups and pull-ups complement each other well.  Just like the push-up the pull-up is a combination of a lot of strengths coming together at one time.  A kinetic chain where every little step counts and adds up.  

Popnfrsh it was good to see you are taking a training break to let your muscles recover and to focus on other important fitness areas.  If you saw improvement in your peak reps you must be doing something right.  If you go to a gym with a fitness trainer on staff you should ask them to help you design a program for strength/endurance not hypertrophy, they should be able to help you improve in a lot of areas at once.  Good luck with your training.  

By the way, what is the total number of push ups you can do in a day now?


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## blacktriangle (27 Aug 2008)

I reached my goal of 1000. Max reps are up about 20 since when I started this.

DISCLAIMER TRY AT YOUR OWN RISK, THIS IS NOT HEALTHY LONG TERM IN MY OPINION, SO ONCE YOU SEE SOME GAINS, SWITCH TO SOMETHING ELSE FOR A WHILE. 

Civy gym membership is up in a few days, so I'm going to refocus on pushups/pullups/situps/sqauts and rucking for the little bit I have till Battle School. Tryed some crossfit workouts, pretty good for this sort of thing. Faster paced then what I'm used to, but similar in composition.


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## ForsterFB (27 Aug 2008)

Congratulations and good luck with battle school.


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