# Medical Restructure



## combat_medic (23 Feb 2004)

Well, I‘ve been astounded yet again. The Canadian Forces Medical Services, or health services, or dental and ballroom dancing services (they‘ve changed their name too many times to keep track) have dealt the killer blow to medics everywhere. They‘ve sent a letter to all medics saying that they‘ll be forced to leave their units and join a local medical company.

Could someone out there please sound a death knell for medics who are still soldiers?

What happened to the days of the combat medic? Is there anyone else out there who thinks that having attached medical personnel with useful soldiering skills applicable to the trade they‘re working with is a GOOD idea? Is there anyone else who thinks that a medic with nominal soldiering skills is a liability in tactical situations? And no, MLOC alone does not cut it, even if it were done properly.

So now, all medics not in a medical unit are being faced with the following choices;

1. Leave the CF
2. Remuster to some other trade
3. Abandon your unit, your regimental pride, your friends, and your soldiering skills, and show up at some medical company, hoping that they might task you out to your home unit once in a year.

If anyone needs me, I‘ll be in mourning for the death of the UMS medic.


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## alexk (23 Feb 2004)

thats decusting. being a combat medic is or now was a important job in a unit why have a medic unit. medic‘s are very important to the unit whos idea was this?


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## Infanteer (23 Feb 2004)

They did it to the Regs while I was in Battalion.  Its too bad, my unit has a real high speed, ex-grunt medic.



> What happened to the days of the combat medic? Is there anyone else out there who thinks that having attached medical personnel with useful soldiering skills applicable to the trade they‘re working with is a GOOD idea? Is there anyone else who thinks that a medic with nominal soldiering skills is a liability in tactical situations? And no, MLOC alone does not cut it, even if it were done properly.


Perhaps the call should go out for a seperation of the trade, like the light/mech infantry debate.  There would be the "Med Tech" that handles the conventional roles in the field hospitals.  Then there would be the "Field Medic" or "Combat Medic" who was assigned to combat arms units and received extensive field training.  I believe that US combat medics shipped off the Vietnam did equal amounts of field infantry training and medical training.

As well, another idea I liked was that the British unit I worked with had Infantry soldiers with "QL4"-like medical qualification and worked with the company medic, an infantry corporal.  These troops were trained more extensivly than any Canadian infantry soldier, ie they received training in IV‘s and Morphine.

Anyways, shitty deal.  It just drives another wedge in the working relationship between the sharp end and the trades.  I guess the only good thing for you is that you only have to drive down the street to Jericho.  How is the CFMS handling medics in units in small towns where there is no nearby medical company?


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## Scoobie Newbie (23 Feb 2004)

From what I hear about the boys who went to Afganistan is that they had designated troops within the coy that had extra training.  Perhaps they should expand on that.  **** they used to teach everyone how to give IV‘s and stuff.


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## combat_medic (24 Feb 2004)

Infanteer: whoever said that I was abandoning my unit? I would sooner remuster than join a medical company, and I know dozens of other medics who feel the same way. 

I agree that having a separate "field medic" trade or qualification would be of enormous use to all combat arms units, and would be a fabulous idea, but when was the last time you knew DND to make a GOOD decision?


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## Pikache (24 Feb 2004)

Ah, turf wars. Never stops through out history.


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## Infanteer (24 Feb 2004)

> Infanteer: whoever said that I was abandoning my unit? I would sooner remuster than join a medical company, and I know dozens of other medics who feel the same way


Are you saying there will be a change in your monkier soon?


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## combat_medic (24 Feb 2004)

It‘s certainly looking that way... gonna have to go from med tech to death tech. At least that‘ll allow me to stop having to adhere to the medical aspects of the Geneva convention that stopped me from shooting off large amounts of C6 and Carl G.

It‘ll also require me to start from square one in a new MOC for the THIRD time. Not that I‘m bitter or angry or anything.


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## Gunnar (24 Feb 2004)

> thats decusting. being a combat medic is or now was a important job in a unit why have a medic unit. medic‘s are very important to the unit whos idea was this?


An accountant‘s?  Some way of limiting the expenses, at the expense of efficiency?


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## Infanteer (24 Feb 2004)

> It‘ll also require me to start from square one in a new MOC for the THIRD time. Not that I‘m bitter or angry or anything.


Now that truely sucks.  Will you get to keep all of your PLQ mods, or have to redo the field phase?

Hey, at least you can swap BIQ tips with all the noobs here (sorry...couldn‘t resist....)

On a good note, my unit had a guy with TI from sigs come to our unit.  After completing his QL3 they immediatly promoted him to corporal.  I have now doubt that it‘ll be the same for you in your unit.


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## combat_medic (24 Feb 2004)

As far as I understand, I can keep all the PLQ Mods, and would just have to go back for the Inf Sect 2IC course. As for the remuster, I think they‘ll let me stay as a Cpl, providing I get qualified within 2 years (?) in 031. I‘m just pissed off that they‘re doing this to me, right when I was a few months away from getting my leaf. What an absolute kick to the nuts... assuming I had any to begin with.   

As for BIQ, I think I‘ve been hanging around with the grunt types long enough to have picked up a thing or two. I‘d like to think I‘m a few steps ahead of the noobs. I‘d like to think that if I‘m qualified to lead a section attack, that there‘s a good chance I‘m capable of simply participating in one.


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## Padraig OCinnead (24 Feb 2004)

Good luck combat_medic

Don‘t let the *******s grind you down!

Slainte,


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## Padraig OCinnead (24 Feb 2004)

That was fast. That last post was descriptive of the marital status of parents at birth of those responsible.


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## combat_medic (24 Feb 2004)

nil illegitimi carborundorum


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## Scoobie Newbie (24 Feb 2004)

The only thing infantry has PLQ wise over the rest of the trades is Mod 6 as far as I know.


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## Pikache (24 Feb 2004)

So, is there still a DP2B course for inf?

If yes, do you have to take both mod 6 PLQ and DP2B?


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## combat_medic (24 Feb 2004)

ALL arms in the reserves have to take the full Mod 6 of the PLQ (for the time being, that may change sometime in the future), and the infantry have to take DP2B in addition, in order to get promoted to MCpl.


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## Pikache (24 Feb 2004)

But I thought mod6 and 2B is basically same thing?

Is it same in length also?


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## Padraig OCinnead (24 Feb 2004)

combat_medic

Thanks boocoop for that quote in latin. I read it somewhere but lost the original quote. I could only remmber it in english.

Slainte,


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## Armymedic (25 Feb 2004)

Gee, combat medic, take a chance, see what the other side of the coin holds for you....  :akimbo:  

If you doubt your role as a competent soldier and a leader with vast field experience amongst all the young, size 6 OPA swallowing,       female Ptes of a reserve med coy,     the go 031 and stay with the boys...

Go ahead take a chance....  :evil:  

As for the remainder of it all...the plan is only following what the reg force is doing for the last couple yrs. With the shortages of medical NCO‘s to conduct tng in the new "Health Services Academy", and the speed which senior people have been getting out, there has been a shortage of adequatly trained personnel across Canada. Its also part of the effort to keep all medical under snakehead control (Director General Health Services) and maximize the training and employment opportunites of all medics (MED A‘s, Med Tech, same great taste) no matter what unit you are TASKED to now. It works well in that medical tng, career course and operational tours are easier to get, PERs are more fair, and resources and pers normally untouchable by being spread out to units of a brigade group can be easily accessed by the fd amb command.

Any comments, then bring them on....  :fifty:


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## combat_medic (25 Feb 2004)

> size 6 OPA swallowing, [Big Grin] female Ptes


Ah Borden, so many terrible memories of nasty shack rats.

I agree that the whole restructure makes medical training more accessible (in theory, and only in the Regular Force), in practice, it simply helps to alienate the medical personal from the combat arms... or as Infanteer puts it; the pointy end. You‘ll end up with a bunch of medics who are knowledgeable about medical skills, but who could spend the duration of their career in the reserves without ever actually laying hands on a REAL person who‘s REALLY injured.

And no wonder they‘re losing personnel, with this decision alone, their numbers will probably dwindle even further than they could have imagined. Maybe that will kick them in the arse enough to re-start the trade of combat/field/troop medic, but I‘m not holding my breath. Maybe if they want to retain their trained soldiers, they might want to stop screwing them around at every possible avenue. I‘ve been facing the brunt of their incompetance for 4 years now, and I‘m amazed that I haven‘t left sooner, and that so many have stayed.


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## Spr.Earl (25 Feb 2004)

They started this back in 97 when I went to Bosnia.
The Medic‘s where pooled and then doled out as higher saw fit.They were moved about and worked with everyone never staying long with any one Troop or Platoon.
Needless to say they were very unhappy.


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## Brad Sallows (25 Feb 2004)

I don‘t have much sympathy for destructive rumours and misinterpretation of policy, so you will have to forgive my curtness.  There are four possibilities:

1) You weren‘t provided an opportunity to read the letter.
2) You didn‘t read the letter.
3) You didn‘t read the letter carefully.
4) You didn‘t comprehend the letter despite reading it carefully.

What is actually happening:

As promised months ago in the Mutual Support Agreement between LFC and ADM-HR(Mil), all detached (employed in non-medical units) reserve medics are being "validated".  Those who are not validated will have options limited to: employment (parading) with a medical unit, transfer to Primary Reserve List (if applicable), remuster, or release.

Every reserve medic should _already_ be joined to a local reserve medical company / field ambulance - on paper.  Those that have not yet been administratively scooped up, soon will be.  All that necessarily implies is paperwork: a transfer "to" the medical unit, and a request for attached posting "back to" the employing (eg. infantry) unit.

The only medics in danger of a change of employment are those who are not validated.  If you are employed primarily as a medic, maintain your qualifications including completion of the Maintenance of Clinical Skills Program (MCSP), and are generally an all-round effective and useful soldier/medic, you should be validated.  If you are the unit Odd Jobs NCO, can‘t or won‘t complete MCSP, or otherwise can‘t meet the expected standards of employability, you will probably not be validated.


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## kiltedtradesman (25 Feb 2004)

Thanks for clearing that up Brad.  

Makes sense to clean house in some units.

  :soldier:


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## combat_medic (25 Feb 2004)

Brad, I did read the letter, and I recently got another one that said that all medics will be transfered, and NOT attach posted back. They will be required to parade regularly at a medical company IN ADDITION to doing MCSP unless they live so far from a medical unit that it would be prohibative to do so. If you want any courses, tasking or promotions then you must be a regular parading member of a medical company. Parading with any other unit is not considered. This was made abundantly and exceedingly clear to me.

I was told this directly by several Senior NCOs, and had it confirmed when I received a letter this week from the CFMS/CFHS/whatever. There is very little room for grey area or misinterpretation. It states very clearly that all medics must parade with a medical company on a regular basis, as well as attending MCSP yearly. In understood about the whole "transfer on paper" arrangement they made earlier, but this recent development changes all that, and it seems the attach posting was simply a guise for this eventual clawback.

In addition, MCSP is so disgustingly simple, that if anyone out there couldn‘t pass it blindfolded and with a hangover, then I would weep for their inclusion in the medical system.

If you don‘t believe me, then send me a PM and I‘ll quote you directly from the letter I‘m being required to sign.


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## Brad Sallows (26 Feb 2004)

Attending MCSP will not be difficult for medics parading with medical units since it is likely to be built right into the training plan.

If medics geographically close to medical units are obligated to parade with medical units, that is a new wrinkle.  I will have to do some digging to see what, if any, new information I‘ve missed.


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## Armymedic (26 Feb 2004)

Nice to see you on Army.ca Brad...   

I sense this is a reserve force issue, which I have no real understanding of, but I can speak for the Reg Med Services side.....

The Med Tech who are attached to cbt arm units in 2 CMBG have tended to stay at their respective units for atleast one yr (and up to 4 so far). Medics who have been promoted (like me being torn from Para Coy after promotion     )or going on a career course are rotated or replaced so that the UMS always has its proper manning. 

To say that medic who do not stay with a cbt arms unit for a long time will not learn the nessecary skills related to the trade is a little full of themselves. To fit into the 031 related job is not that difficult and if the soldier is motivated, fit, and knowledgable, it doesn‘t take a whole bunch of time to know how to live and where to be in all phases of the job. 

You‘re a soldier, suck it up...don‘t like it?

SEE YA


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## combat_medic (26 Feb 2004)

I‘m not implying that it takes forever to figure out the skills, but in the reserve world, that time is made even longer, and if some Med Coy medic only shows up on med support for 2 or 3 exercises of 2 days a piece in an entire training year, they‘re hardly going to learn a thing. The reg force is quite a different entity, and it makes it difficult to draw comparisons, as you‘re spending 40+ hours a week doing it, instead of 3.


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## Brad Sallows (26 Feb 2004)

Having seen an excerpt from the letter sent to the Med As, I agree with combat_medic‘s interpretation: if you and your unit are close to the reserve fd amb, the default policy is that you will be required to parade with the fd amb.

At this point, I have no idea whether the local CO‘s have any discretion to arrange attach postings of either fixed or indefinite length.


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## Enzo (27 Feb 2004)

I‘m not feeling positive about the bureaucracy that dominates the CF right now, so I‘m just going to say cheers to you CM. You‘re an asset. I hope this doesn‘t sour you too much. Think of it this way, the Infantry‘s getting a well qualified soldier out of this.

As for the decision‘s being made...


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