# Are MP’s (Military Police) allowed to come in messes without work related reason



## Somerandomfellow (29 Mar 2019)

Hello:

Today at the JR ranks mess they were having a free hotdog and hamburger day, an MP came in for some food. 

Can an MP come in to a mess for unofficial business? They have their own mess for a reason, can we just come in to their mess? 

Is there a reference or pub?

I mean this may seem harmless but if there’s one thing I’ve learned in my career, it’s to never ever trust an MP... 

Any help or advice on this would be helpful, I’ll also ask the PMC.


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## garb811 (29 Mar 2019)

This is probably going to come to a shock to you but, guess what? MP belong to that mess and pay dues to it, just like you do. So, when the mess holds a function for the entire membership, MP are allowed to attend that function, just like you are. So, yeah, they are absolutely allowed to attend their mess when they want to, no matter whether you like it or not.

PS - I wrote this while sitting in the mess enjoying a Friday beer, hope you don’t mind.


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Mar 2019)

I don't even know if this is still a thing. Some bases I was posted to had separate messes for the MP's. MP's had instruction not to visit messes where they weren't invited or weren't members of, unless called for on duty. Comox was one. The had their own mess in the old fire hall, IIRC.

I *think* that's what the OP was asking.


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## BeyondTheNow (29 Mar 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> Hello:
> 
> Today at the JR ranks mess they were having a free hotdog and hamburger day, an MP came in for some food.
> 
> ...



If you’ve legitimately had some less-than-civil interactions with MP _through no fault of your own_, then I can understand your wariness. But I know a few MPs and they’re all exceptional people who work hard and take pride in their job—and their ranks vary from the bottom to the top.  

If you are among the people who hate-on MPs simply because you were taught to—and the negative bias starts right at BMQ from some staff, no less—then kindly spout-off elsewhere. Do you feel the same way towards civvie police also? 

There are absolutely bad apples, yes. And there are bad apples in every trade. But the concentration of bad apples in the small, overall population of MP, versus the concentration of bad apples in, let’s say, the Infantry trade, is hardly comparable and it causes the trade to stand out more unfairly. If I uttered a blanket statement like “I’ve learned...” not to trust Sig Ops, or not to trust Comms Research, or not to trust Cooks, would that make sense? No.

I’m sorry if you feel you’ve had bad experiences, but I am beyond sick of hearing people tear down the MP trade when they honestly have no clue what they’re talking about.

It’s perfectly acceptable to not like a couple of them for whatever personal reasons you might have, and there may even be a professional reason for you not caring for a few of them, but disparaging an entire trade is unacceptable. Full stop.

Oh, and edit to add: Some places have TBird clubs, they don’t replace the mess though.


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## RCDtpr (29 Mar 2019)

I pay my mess dues the same as you.


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## garb811 (29 Mar 2019)

Fishbone Jones said:
			
		

> I don't even know if this is still a thing. Some bases I was posted to had separate messes for the MP's. MP's had instruction not to visit messes where they weren't invited or weren't members of, unless called for on duty. Comox was one. The had their own mess in the old fire hall, IIRC.
> 
> I *think* that's what the OP was asking.


In my entire career, the entire time I've been paying mess dues with the only exception being when posted OUTCAN to MSGU/MPSS. Over the course of my career there have been locations where "we" did or didn't attend the mess based on a number of different reasons, but at no time were MP ever officially excused from being members of, and forbidden to attend, the appropriate mess simply by virtue of being MP.

At one time "Thunder Bird Clubs", or similarly named clubs, were widespread, but they did not replace MP being members of the messes as they were, and are, clubs, not messes. Due to a variety of factors, many locations no longer have these and the ones that do exist are now constituted, and run, in the same way as any other NPP club on the Base/Wing.


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Mar 2019)

garb811 said:
			
		

> In my entire career, the entire time I've been paying mess dues with the only exception being when posted OUTCAN to MSGU/MPSS. Over the course of my career there have been locations where "we" did or didn't attend the mess based on a number of different reasons, but at no time were MP ever officially excused from being members of, and forbidden to attend, the appropriate mess simply by virtue of being MP.
> 
> At one time "Thunder Bird Clubs", or similarly named clubs, were widespread, but they did not replace MP being members of the messes as they were, and are, clubs, not messes. Due to a variety of factors, many locations no longer have these and the ones that do exist are now constituted, and run, in the same way as any other NPP club on the Base/Wing.



I was PMC of the Comox Mess, in 1981, and I did not collect dues from MPs. They paid dues to their own club at the fire hall. I'm not arguing anything, just passing on what I know to be fact. If it is no longer a thing, it doesn't affect me either way. However, I will stand by what I know, because I was in on the writing of the base memo that gave them the fire hall and explained the situation to everyone, including when and why they could be in our mess.

Going off track and bowing out.


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## garb811 (29 Mar 2019)

Fishbone Jones said:
			
		

> I was PMC of the Comox Mess, in 1981, and I did not collect dues from MPs. They paid dues to their own club at the fire hall. I'm not arguing anything, just passing on what I know to be fact. If it is no longer a thing, it doesn't affect me either way. However, I will stand by what I know, because I was in on the writing of the base memo that gave them the fire hall and explained the situation to everyone, including when and why they could be in our mess.
> 
> Going off track and bowing out.


Interesting and thanks for the history and background on that, be interesting to know when that changed.


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## ModlrMike (29 Mar 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> Hello:
> 
> ...if there’s one thing I’ve learned in my career, it’s to never ever trust an MP...



This is something you should unlearn. That's my advice  :2c:


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## Blackadder1916 (29 Mar 2019)

Here's an interesting item.

https://www.cafconnection.ca/Trenton/Facilities/8-Wing-Messes-and-Institutes/Junior-Ranks-Mess.aspx


> Labrador Lounge
> For more information please contact the PMC of the *Military Police Mess* at 613-392-2811 x4444.


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## Inspir (29 Mar 2019)

This is the most asinine thread I’ve seen on here in a while. Are you sure you didn’t mean to post this on _Cop Block_?


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## dimsum (29 Mar 2019)

Fishbone Jones said:
			
		

> Comox was one. The had their own mess in the old fire hall, IIRC.



I'm about 99% certain that Comox doesn't have a separate MP Mess now.


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## X Royal (29 Mar 2019)

To me the answer is simple.
If posted to the same base and paying dues to the mess than they have every right to attend a members function.
If posted to the same base and not paying dues to the mess than the MP's have no right to attend a members function without a duty reason.


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## blacktriangle (30 Mar 2019)

I'd worry more about dating an MP's ex girlfriend/wife. Way better way to put yourself on the radar with that crew than drinking at the same mess as them. Unless you enjoy getting "randomly" stopped. 

 :rofl:


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

Ok for some clairification:

1. The MPs at this current base have their own mess, so can I just go in to their mess whenever I want? 

2. For those of you who were offended by my lack of trust in MPs, they’re cops, it’s a cardinal rule to never trust a cop, always be respectful and polite but they aren’t you friend and they’re not out to do any favours for you. Never talk to a cop without proper legal representation by your side. It’s common sense. Give them basic information they request (ID, drivers license, etc) but that’s it. Never give statements or answer questions without proper help. 

3. Yes I have had a few negative experiences with MPs, I also have a few friend MPs too, who are awesome people. I’ve told them my negative experiences and they are working hard to remove the stigma about the general disdain for the trade, basically MPs thinking they’re above the law they swear to uphold, which is very hypocritical and unprofessional. it can be very annoying. 

So back to the question: MPs have their own mess, why? Are we allowed in theirs and are they allowed in ours for unofficial business? 

Thanks!


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

Fishbone Jones said:
			
		

> I don't even know if this is still a thing. Some bases I was posted to had separate messes for the MP's. MP's had instruction not to visit messes where they weren't invited or weren't members of, unless called for on duty. Comox was one. The had their own mess in the old fire hall, IIRC.
> 
> I *think* that's what the OP was asking.






That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Thanks!


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

ExRCDcpl said:
			
		

> I pay my mess dues the same as you.



Do you have your own mess though?


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> This is something you should unlearn. That's my advice  :2c:



That’s poor advice. It’s only worth 2 cents, they don’t even make pennies anymore.


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

Inspir said:
			
		

> This is the most asinine thread I’ve seen on here in a while. Are you sure you didn’t mean to post this on _Cop Block_?




I don’t know what cop block is.


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

garb811 said:
			
		

> This is probably going to come to a shock to you but, guess what? MP belong to that mess and pay dues to it, just like you do. So, when the mess holds a function for the entire membership, MP are allowed to attend that function, just like you are. So, yeah, they are absolutely allowed to attend their mess when they want to, no matter whether you like it or not.
> 
> PS - I wrote this while sitting in the mess enjoying a Friday beer, hope you don’t mind.



Soooo you don’t have your own mess then? What base is that? On this one they do have their own. If there’s one mess then no I don’t have a problem, if you have your own and come into ours, maybe I do have a problem. Depends on where your dues are going. 

The MP mess here is quite nice.


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## Pusser (2 Apr 2019)

Are you sure the MPs have their own mess?  They may have a club, but a club is not a mess.  As a general rule, Regular Force locations will only have one mess per rank group.  There are many exceptions of course, but these are mostly for specific historic or administrative reasons (e.g. combined messes where populations don't warrant separate messes).  Even in those cases where there are seemingly multiple messes for the same rank group (e.g. RA Park and the Wardroom in Halifax or the Gunroom and Wardroom in Esquimalt) you will find that they are in fact the same mess, but with two facilities.

More to the point in this thread, however, is that I suspect the MP "mess" is actually constituted as a club and that the MPs are also ordinary members of the regular messes on the base.  Look at it this way, a base commander is obligated by regulation to provide messes for each rank group on a base.  This includes not just the facility itself, but also staff to run it, as well as resources for operations and maintenance.  What base commander is going to do this for more messes than he's obligated to?  As an NPF club, the MP "Club" can set membership criteria, just as any other NPF club.  So no, you cannot go to their club, but yes they can go to events in their mess (which happens to be the same as yours).

It's also worth noting that by regulation, all CF regular and reserve members are honorary members of every CF mess appropriate to their rank, except the mess in which they are ordinary members (i.e. the one where they pay dues).  The only exception to this is shipboard messes.  This means, that even if the MP in question is not an ordinary member of your mess, he still allowed to come in and enjoy your "hospitality" as an honorary member.  Messes are of course allowed to charge honorary members an extra fee (e.g. the "guest" vice "member" rate for a function), but this is likely more trouble than it's worth for a hot dog - keeping in mind that these sorts of events are designed to get more people in the door. 

PS:  This is all explained in the PSP Policy Manual.


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## RCDtpr (2 Apr 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> Soooo you don’t have your own mess then? What base is that? On this one they do have their own. If there’s one mess then no I don’t have a problem, if you have your own and come into ours, maybe I do have a problem. Depends on where your dues are going.
> 
> The MP mess here is quite nice.



We have an MP “mess” here......but guess what?  I pay into the Jr Ranks not the MP one....and it’s been like that at every base I’ve been to.

Sorry you don’t like us playing in your little playground.....but it’s ours too so get over yourself.


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## AbdullahD (2 Apr 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> That’s poor advice. It’s only worth 2 cents, they don’t even make pennies anymore.



Ok I will take offence to this, maybe I love MP's/Police in general to much.

But I personally feel this is a bigoted opinion to have, hold and believe. Yes, some officers are bad, but some citizens are too.

If you have been breaking the law, or have something to hide, then yeah maybe being honest or having friends who are officers is a bad idea. I would like to think we are not all gang bangers were having friends with cops equals jail time.

I just imported a sailboat to Canada and the officers I dealt with, I actually wanted to buy them coffee and bs with cause they were great guys. I have friends who are cops and they would do anything to help, protect and render assistance to anyone who needs it. So I take it personally when people hate on the boys in blue.

So this idea of not liking, respecting or socializing with cops is in my opinion elementary in this day and age. They are human, yes they make mistakes and yes sometimes when we make mistakes they have to be pricks. 

But they do not in any way deserve to be hated on.

Abdullah


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> So this idea of not liking, respecting or socializing with cops is in my opinion elementary in this day and age. They are human, yes they make mistakes and yes sometimes when we make mistakes they have to be pricks.
> 
> But they do not in any way deserve to be hated on.
> 
> Abdullah



Please correctly read what I said before you reply, I said “treat with respect and be polite”.  

If you choose to talk to police that’s your perogative, but you’re under no obligation to chat with them or buy them coffee. 

Also, you’re using the term bigoted very loosely, and that’s not really a word I’d personally throw around...


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

ExRCDcpl said:
			
		

> We have an MP “mess” here......but guess what?  I pay into the Jr Ranks not the MP one....and it’s been like that at every base I’ve been to.
> 
> Sorry you don’t like us playing in your little playground.....but it’s ours too so get over yourself.



So can I choose to pay into the MP mess and play in their little playground instead of ours?


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Are you sure the MPs have their own mess?  They may have a club, but a club is not a mess.  As a general rule, Regular Force locations will only have one mess per rank group.  There are many exceptions of course, but these are mostly for specific historic or administrative reasons (e.g. combined messes where populations don't warrant separate messes).  Even in those cases where there are seemingly multiple messes for the same rank group (e.g. RA Park and the Wardroom in Halifax or the Gunroom and Wardroom in Esquimalt) you will find that they are in fact the same mess, but with two facilities.
> 
> More to the point in this thread, however, is that I suspect the MP "mess" is actually constituted as a club and that the MPs are also ordinary members of the regular messes on the base.  Look at it this way, a base commander is obligated by regulation to provide messes for each rank group on a base.  This includes not just the facility itself, but also staff to run it, as well as resources for operations and maintenance.  What base commander is going to do this for more messes than he's obligated to?  As an NPF club, the MP "Club" can set membership criteria, just as any other NPF club.  So no, you cannot go to their club, but yes they can go to events in their mess (which happens to be the same as yours).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clairification, I’ll have to take a look and see if it’s a club vs. a mess. It definitely comes off as a mess, but I will take a look when I have time, also thank you for the reference.

I figured MPs would have their own mess due to the nature of their work, and by the sounds of it, some bases do have separate messes and some don’t.


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## Eye In The Sky (2 Apr 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> I figured MPs would have their own mess due to the nature of their work, and by the sounds of it, some bases do have separate messes and some don’t.



There are lots of trades and jobs that would have their own mess 'due to the nature of their work' if that was the case; I have access to lots of things that supply techs, maintainers, HRAs, etc don't need to know about in their line of work and...I know the Mess isn't cleared for those kinds of conversations and don't have them there.

If you mean "because they can arrest people"...you might want to read this.  I know MPs have peace officer status, but they're not the only CAF members who can arrest someone colouring outside the lines.


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## Somerandomfellow (2 Apr 2019)

There seems to be a few people who are under the impression that I “hate” military police, which isn’t true. There’s a big difference between hatred and simply not trusting, or preferring to keep my distance. Always treat MPs with respect and be polite, but you don’t have to say anything you don’t want to. All this post is about is “do MPs have a separate mess?”


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## AbdullahD (2 Apr 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> There seems to be a few people who are under the impression that I “hate” military police, which isn’t true. There’s a big difference between hatred and simply not trusting, or preferring to keep my distance. Always treat MPs with respect and be polite, but you don’t have to say anything you don’t want to. All this post is about is “do MPs have a separate mess?”



If I was mistaken I am sorry, I use the term very specifically. Mayhap I misread you and your opinions.

I see a lot of hate these days, drives me insane to be honest.


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## mariomike (2 Apr 2019)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> I see a lot of hate these days, drives me insane to be honest.



Easy to hate. Difficult to love.


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## garb811 (2 Apr 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> There seems to be a few people who are under the impression that I “hate” military police, which isn’t true. There’s a big difference between hatred and simply not trusting, or preferring to keep my distance. Always treat MPs with respect and be polite, but you don’t have to say anything you don’t want to. All this post is about is “do MPs have a separate mess?”


If that truly is the case, you might want to go back and re-read what you've been writing. Trying to say now that all this post is about is, "do MPs have a separate mess?" is just a bit disingenuous at this point. 

Bottom Line: MP are members of the same mess as you and have as much right to be there as you do. Get over yourself.


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## Jarnhamar (2 Apr 2019)

[quote author=Abdullah] 

But I personally feel this is a bigoted opinion to have, hold and believe. 
[/quote]
Being intollerent of someone elses opinion is the definition of bigotry.


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## RCDtpr (2 Apr 2019)

Somerandomfellow said:
			
		

> So can I choose to pay into the MP mess and play in their little playground instead of ours?



I wasn’t given the option which I pay into.....it was Jr Ranks or Jr Ranks.

We get it....you likely talked yourself into cells one night and now the big bad MPs shouldn’t be allowed near you.

This thread has become less than pointless.

We pay into the Jr Ranks and can therefore attend Jr Ranks functions.

/thread


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## Jarnhamar (2 Apr 2019)

[quote author=garb811] Trying to say now that all this post is about is, "do MPs have a separate mess?" is just a bit disingenuous at this point. 


[/quote]
Yup.


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## AbdullahD (2 Apr 2019)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Being intollerent of someone elses opinion is the definition of bigotry.



bigot noun
big·​ot | \ ˈbi-gət  \
Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

If one believes a persons opinion fits that definition then it is not bigoted to call it a bigoted opinion to have. With my comment I have not displayed the qualifiers to make it in itself a bigoted opinion.

So your comment is not applicable to mine. From where I sit. I corrected myself when he explained himself, which is contrary to the definition.


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## Spencer100 (2 Apr 2019)

This one should be shutdown.  I think the question has been answered


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## Scott (2 Apr 2019)

Spencer100 said:
			
		

> This one should be shutdown.  I think the question has been answered



Agreed. Locked.

No need to rehash this one, or devolve into the hate fest for MPs - and I appreciate the membership keeping that out of it, for the most part.


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