# ROTP as a 2lt?



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

Is there anything I can do  to start ROTP at RMC as a 2LT? 

I'm Married, with a son, and therefore can not afford to live for 4 years 
on the Officer cadet wage.

Is it possible to get the rank through Reserves and then switch to the
ROTP in the regular forces?


----------



## Pusser (3 Sep 2011)

Not to put too fine a point on it, but do you realize what you're asking?  Can we pay you more than everyone else to do the same job?

We don't pay you more (or promote you) simply because you need more money to support your lifestyle.  You have to earn promotion under the terms and conditions of your enrollment.

When I joined under ROTP, I got nothing in terms of pay for my previous Reserve service, but I was allowed to buy some pensionable time (still have a few years to go before I get the benefit of that though).  I've been led to believe that for awhile (several years after I did it), ex-Reservists were granted vested rights to pay upon transfer into ROTP (which would be beneficial as Reserve corporals make more than ROTP OCdts), but apparently that has since been rescinded.


----------



## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2011)

You can get your degree civvie side on your own dime and then join. You're getting a free education as a ROTP student at RMC, worth over $40,000. That's why the pay is a bit lower. You'd need to join the reserves and get to be at least a Cpl (4 years) before you'd make enough to have vested rights to pay to make more than a OCdt IPC0.


----------



## RCDtpr (3 Sep 2011)

Commissions are not handed out because you need a little more coin.

Like everything else in the CF they must be earned.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Not to put too fine a point on it, but do you realize what you're asking?  Can we pay you more than everyone else to do the same job?
> 
> We don't pay you more (or promote you) simply because you need more money to support your lifestyle.  You have to earn promotion under the terms and conditions of your enrollment.



I'm not unwilling to work for it, I'm just asking for options.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You can get your degree civvie side on your own dime and then join. You're getting a free education as a ROTP student at RMC, worth over $40,000. That's why the pay is a bit lower. You'd need to join the reserves and get to be at least a Cpl (4 years) before you'd make enough to have vested rights to pay to make more than a OCdt IPC0.




Awesome, thank you, this is what I will have to do.

I'm not so much asking for a huge starting pay and nothing in return, I would just like 
something similar to OCTP, they make More as a Cadet, but less than ROTP and 2LT and LT.
an OCTP pay rate would be perfect for me, and in the long run they make to same as ROTP.


I really was hoping we had something similar to a few other countries, which
gives a "bonus" for people with very high aptitude ratings. :-(


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

It seems I am getting Complaints about being inappropriate.

"E.R. Campbell thought Hodr was Inappropriate (-300 MP)"
"Amount: -300 MilPoints"
"Notes: And you want to be an officer? Grow up!"


It was my understanding that an officer was someone who could think outside the box 
in order to solve problems. The pay issue is just a problem I need to get around. I never 
said it was my right, but I do have a wife and child to care for, also my 71 year old 
grandfather who I look after since he has no one else left to do so.

I would be leaving a $3100/m job behind to join the army, I'm not a kid straight
out of high school, asking for the world.


P.S.

E.R. Campbell, I would really appreciate knowing how you find yourself able
to make such a character judgement on someone with so little information.


----------



## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> I really was hoping we had something similar to a few other countries, which
> gives a "bonus" for people with very high aptitude ratings. :-(



The bonus doesn't come right away. Once you hit Captain, you'll be making quite a bit of money, even more so at Major and above if you get that far. Your family may have to live frugally for a few years before you're finished schooling, but the pay will catch up with you. Some say its worth the wait.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The bonus doesn't come right away. Once you hit Captain, you'll be making quite a bit of money, even more so at Major and above if you get that far. Your family may have to live frugally for a few years before you're finished schooling, but the pay will catch up with you. Some say its worth the wait.




Thank you very much for your help, I appreciate it.


----------



## aesop081 (3 Sep 2011)

You can join first and make less money with free school

or

You can pay for school and join after with a bit higher pay


Either way, in the end, it all works out to the same. You family situation is not a reason to grant you a higher rank for which you are not qualified to hold.


----------



## PMedMoe (3 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You family situation is not a reason to grant you a higher rank for which you are not qualified to hold.



What he said.

Regardless of your aptitude results.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You can join first and make less money with free school
> 
> or
> 
> ...




I understand, it's just sad that I have 5 years experience in the Electrical and Mechanical
Engineering field, and it is going to count for nothing since I don't have a degree, I had to
work hard to get the position without one... :-/


----------



## aesop081 (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> it's just sad that I have 5 years experience in the Electrical and Mechanical
> Engineering field, and it is going to count for nothing since I don't have a degree, I had to
> work hard to get the position without one... :-/



 :crybaby:

Maybe Tim Horton's would pay you more due to you experience ?

Your life experience will not go to waste, it never does. That being said, you do not have a degree and therefore need to get one, one way or another, in order to be an officer in the CF.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :crybaby:
> 
> Maybe Tim Horton's would pay you more due to you experience ?
> 
> Your life experience will not go to waste, it never does. That being said, you do not have a degree and therefore need to get one, one way or another, in order to be an officer in the CF.



It seems likely I will just have to pay for a civilian university and test out. 
Going to be a lot of money wasted paying for a course just to skip it with a few
tests, but I seem to haveno other option


----------



## aesop081 (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> It seems likely I will just have to pay for a civilian university and test out.
> Going to be a lot of money wasted paying for a course just to skip it with a few
> tests, but I seem to haveno other option



Now, if only there was a place where you could get university for free, getting a salary at the same time..................


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Now, if only there was a place where you could get university for free, getting a salary at the same time..................




That would be Europe, but there is no need to be rude.

P.S.

2 months of commitment for every one month of school means it 
is hardly free.


----------



## PMedMoe (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> That would be Europe, but there is no need to be rude.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> ...



 :facepalm:


----------



## aesop081 (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> That would be Europe, but there is no need to be rude.



That would be *Canada*.............you get paid to attend free school !!! Thats ROTP !!!!

*facepalm*



			
				Hodr said:
			
		

> 2 months of commitment for every one month of school means it
> is hardly free.



Oh, now i see the problem..................you want your cake and eat mine too !!

Good luck at Tim Horton's.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> :facepalm:




There are options in Europe to be pay to attend University for an in demand 
field, with similar commitment.


Even here in Canada as a civilian doctor serving northern Canada


----------



## aesop081 (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> There are options in Europe



Then please, GO TO EUROPE !!!!!!

Leave now before it is too late............


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Then please, GO TO EUROPE !!!!!!
> 
> Leave now before it is too late............




Very mature.


----------



## aesop081 (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> Very mature.



Thank you.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Thank you.



You are welcome.


----------



## Journeyman (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> I understand, it's just sad that I have 5 years experience in the Electrical and Mechanical
> Engineering field, and it is going to count for nothing since I don't have a degree, I had to
> work hard to get the position without one... :-/


Perhaps consider joining as an enlisted soldier. With your experience and bonus-worthy aptitude you should get promoted into the big money well ahead of your peers.

Another option you may wish to consider is having your wife work; I know it's crazy, but they can even vote now!


----------



## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> I understand, it's just sad that I have 5 years experience in the Electrical and Mechanical
> Engineering field, and it is going to count for nothing since I don't have a degree, I had to
> work hard to get the position without one... :-/



You're assuming it counts for nothing. Unless you have a degree already, it will count for nothing as an officer entry plan. If you want to be eligible for semi-skilled or skilled entry, pick a NCM trade that aligns closely with your experience, if that trade is understrength and you have the requisite experience, you'll be getting a nice cheque and a higher starting salary than an officer cadet. 

You're digging yourself a hole here, the CF isn't in massive need of people, and we're not throwing money at everyone who thinks they have "good experience" (I'm not knocking yours here). If you're just joining thinking to get an awesome salary right off the bat and free education so you can leave when your obligatory service is up, I think you need to strongly examine why you're joining in the first place, or just not do it altogether. That being said, I'd recommend you ask for a lock, you're going to get piled on by experienced members who don't like what you're saying so far (I'm starting to lean in their direction too). Your question was asked and answered, and your best bet is to find a recruiter and discuss entry plans with them based on your civilian experience.


----------



## RCDtpr (3 Sep 2011)

A lot of other countries have the recruiting incentives because they can't fill spots.  We do not have that problem here in Canada.  Furthermore, as an officer cadet in school you are useless to the CF and therefore you are paid accordingly.  As you become more useful to the CF, your pay increases.  Sorry if that offends you...but that's the reality of it.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

I will be speaking more with a recruiter.

I mentioned the commitment thing just to counter the "Free" argument, but I am
planning on a long term of service, I was just trying to find a way to make the transition
into the military a little easier.

My Wife is my Grandfather's care taker, so if she works we would have to put him in
a home (thought about it but I can't bring myself to do it), I will be looking into all the
options laid out so far, and hopefully the recruiter will have a few more.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful on purpose, but it have been my experience, there is 
always a way to get around an issue or a guideline if you really look hard enough. 

P.S.

RCDcpl, that was a fine answer, I only take offence to rude answers, and yours of course was not.


----------



## Journeyman (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> ....there is always a way to get around an issue or a guideline if you really look hard enough.


Ahh, now _that's_ the kind of leadership the CF is looking for.   :


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

lol, I mean in legitimate ways, not by breaking rules.

I'm referring to loopholes put into place on purpose.


----------



## ballz (3 Sep 2011)

RCDcpl said:
			
		

> Furthermore, as an officer cadet in school you are useless to the CF and therefore you are paid accordingly.



Actually we're way overpaid ;D

Hodr:

Consider a student line of credit from a bank. That will get you an additional 15,000 per year. Your OCdts salary will be approximentally 20,000 a year, so the line of credit is a nice chunk of change. Yes, obviously you will have to pay it all back, with interest, but hey, that's life. I am sure you can manage to do that when you get your commission and start making the big bucks, considering how many arts students manage to pay it back working at entry-level jobs.

Also, perhaps you may have to consider that with a wife, kids, and ailing grandfather, that joining the Canadian Forces might not be a wise decision right now...


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> Actually we're way overpaid ;D
> 
> Hodr:
> 
> ...




I will look into it, thank you.


----------



## Ayrsayle (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> lol, I mean in legitimate ways, not by breaking rules.
> 
> I'm referring to loopholes put into place on purpose.



There are plenty of "loopholes" (as you call them - most of us refer to them as Entry Plans) - but the military has already identified how it accepts applicants and under what terms. If you don't like the terms, or are seeking ways around them - I think everyone's comments speak better then I could.

I'm a new applicant leaving in a few weeks for Basic - and even with a degree I'll be a OCdt until the end of Basic. 4 years of schooling paid for out of my own pocket. I realize your financial/personal situation might be rough but if you want it, you need to earn it. Earn not in your own mind, but in a way the Military recognizes. All the entry plans are laid out on the website and a recruiter is usually available to answer your questions.

Honestly - think long and hard about why you "deserve" what so many of us worked (or are working) for. There is a huge gap between "Deserve" and "Need".


----------



## Zoomie (3 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> Also, perhaps you may have to consider that with a wife, kids, and ailing grandfather, that joining the Canadian Forces might not be a wise decision right now...


There's a piece of good advice.  You can probably expect upwards of 6 years of low end salary - 4 in school + at least 2 in training.

You will also find that ROTP is geared towards high school graduates entering school the next year - not married, older, wiser people.


----------



## Pusser (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> Awesome, thank you, this is what I will have to do.
> 
> I'm not so much asking for a huge starting pay and nothing in return, I would just like
> something similar to OCTP, they make More as a Cadet, but less than ROTP and 2LT and LT.
> ...



You should note that OCTP is no longer offered.  The closest thing to it would be CEOTP, where you are required to pursue a degree on your own time while serving full time.  It's not the rosiest of options, particularly (at least in my opinion) when compared to going to school full time with no other commitments while receiving a salary (albeit a lesser one for a little while).  Once you graduate though, your pay rises pretty rapidly and beyond that of the CEOTP candidates.


----------



## CFR FCS (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr,
You did get the briefing on your pay and benefits under ROTP? The one that explains that as a married with dependants soldier you will be exempt from paying rations and quarters while in school. That is the *only* benefit you are entitled to as is everyone else who is enrolled. It's a little more money in your pocket plus remember your personal living expenses such as transport to and from work ( march or military tpt) and clothing (uniforms are issued) are included in the package.


----------



## Good2Golf (3 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> I understand, it's just sad that I have 5 years experience in the Electrical and Mechanical
> Engineering field, and it is going to count for nothing since I don't have a degree, I had to
> work hard to get the position without one... :-/



A quick scan of the CF Recruiting site filtering for technologist/engineering background and HighSchool grad/partial College, shows "Marine Engineering Mechanic" as an "In Demand" trade.

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/marineengineeringmechanic-31#info-1

This would certainly make use of the experience you have in the mechanical and electrical engineering technologist fields.  It also notes the potential to qualify within this trade under the "Canadian Forces Subsidized Education Program":

http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/NCM-SEP_all_en.pdf

Consider ME Mech for a few years, then you could apply for your degree under the UTPNCM.

What others have tried to say, is that your experience only counts when the organizational framework you're looking to join gives such experience preferential consideration.  ROTP does not....nothing personal, just the way that particular plan is.

Interestingly, my son, currently studying at RMC, looks at the "2 for 1" obligatory service after graduation and commissioning as a guaranteed well-paying job (career) that he's looking forward to pursuing.  I guess if people use terms such as "locked in for X years", they are going to be unhappy for those X years.  I have friends still working off student loans nearly a quarter-century after they got their degrees...it's a personal choice to decide how to look at such commitments associated with the ROTP.

Talk to the recruiting centre and check things out.


Regards
G2G


----------



## ballz (3 Sep 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Interestingly, my son, currently studying at RMC, looks at the "2 for 1" obligatory service after graduation and commissioning as a guaranteed well-paying job (career) that he's looking forward to pursuing.  I guess if people use terms such as "locked in for X years", they are going to be unhappy for those X years.  I have friends still working off student loans nearly a quarter-century after they got their degrees...it's a personal choice to decide how to look at such commitments associated with the ROTP.



Damn right, I know a lot of people now graduating from BBA and BComm, or in their 4th year of their programs, that would love to sign a 5 year contract that guarantees them to start at 50,000 a year, within 3 years be at 70,000+, etc., and that's without getting their school paid for / salary to boot.

But when it's with the military, apparently that part of the contract is one of the downsides :facepalm: Well, if that's a downside, it sounds like a pretty huge win to me.


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

CFR FCS said:
			
		

> Hodr,
> You did get the briefing on your pay and benefits under ROTP? The one that explains that as a married with dependants soldier you will be exempt from paying rations and quarters while in school. That is the *only* benefit you are entitled to as is everyone else who is enrolled. It's a little more money in your pocket plus remember your personal living expenses such as transport to and from work ( march or military tpt) and clothing (uniforms are issued) are included in the package.



That would be a major improvement to the situation, I have also gotten some other information today which would allow me
a few more allowances that would make the ROTP option do-able for me,

Sorry for those who I made angry today, but over all I have gotten the answers out of it I need to make ROTP work for me.


----------



## RCDtpr (3 Sep 2011)

Out of curiosity.....what would these allowances be?


----------



## Hodr (3 Sep 2011)

PM sent


----------



## 421_434_226 (3 Sep 2011)

Just as a small note do not trust the forces.ca, browse jobs website with regards to occupations available unfortunately it is quite often out of date. Your best bet is to call a recruiter as the numbers change much faster than the website.


----------



## vonGarvin (4 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> Is there anything I can do  to start ROTP at RMC as a 2LT?



No there isn't.

If you want more money right now, go work somewhere else.


----------



## PuckChaser (4 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> PM sent



You know, posting those allowances here might help others in your situation. They're all publicly available but hiding them away in a PM is just going to make someone 6 months from now ask the same question.


----------



## Hodr (4 Sep 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You know, posting those allowances here might help others in your situation. They're all publicly available but hiding them away in a PM is just going to make someone 6 months from now ask the same question.



Point taken, I have heard from 8 people (recruiters and people currently attending RMC) now that Privates in the reserves 
are being allowed to keep there Pte pay of 32k then 39k after the first year.

If for some reason that falls through, all of the standard incentives and grants through the Federal and provincial
governments for re-training still apply to people making use of ROTP.

There are a lot of grants and incentives for "returning students" with dependants.


----------



## AERO2012 (4 Sep 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You know, posting those allowances here might help others in your situation. They're all publicly available but hiding them away in a PM is just going to make someone 6 months from now ask the same question.



...In addition, sharing information is an *essential* leadership quality of an Officer Cadet.


----------



## ballz (4 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> Point taken, I have heard from 8 people (recruiters and people currently attending RMC) now that Privates in the reserves
> are being allowed to keep there Pte pay of 32k then 39k after the first year.
> 
> If for some reason that falls through, all of the standard incentives and grants through the Federal and provincial
> ...



Careful about that one. Recruiters are not SMEs (subject matter experts) on all the nitty gritty details of every entry plan (even if they are supposed to be). When it comes to subsidized education, the SEMs in Bordon are. I suggest you start taking a look at which grants / scholarships / etc you are talking about, and see how they are administered.

From the 2011/2012 SEM Student Guide:



> 3.06  Academic Awards – Scholarships/Bursaries (CFAO 9-12).
> 
> 
> 11. Members cannot receive scholarships, bursaries or financial assistance where, by the terms of the prize, the money is to be used for any payment that normally is paid or reimbursed by the CF, unless the award is applied directly against those costs and the member does not claim reimbursement.
> ...



In other words, if you get a grant for $X for tuition, it's no good to you. If your grant for $X is for something other than tuition and books, then you should be able to make use of it.

For example, I know there was somebody on this board from Ontario asking if her son could use the "Textbook & Technology Grant" offered in Ontario. The CF doesn't pay for your computer/laptop (well, actually the do pay for part of it if the university says its mandatory), so she was able to use the grant because the terms of the grant specified it could be used for laptops/computers/software etc.

If you do accept a grant for tuition, but you let the CF reimburse you for tuition as well, it's called fraud.


----------



## Hodr (4 Sep 2011)

Ballz, you are completely right.

But programs I'm referring to are for living expenses, which would
assist me in expenses for my Off campus home.

As far as as I can tell that would not conflict with ROTP.

If there is a fault in that plan, I would like to know, I'm
far from finished this research. 

also, I will get a hold of the SEM's at borden like you recommend


----------



## ballz (4 Sep 2011)

If they are for living/various expenses then you should be fine, as the CF does not directly subsidize your living expenses.

If you want to speak to an SEM you'll have to ask a recruiter about it, I'm not sure what the policy is. I know I'm not going to give out my SEM's contact information as I'm not sure he'd appreciate it.


----------



## Pusser (4 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> If they are for living/various expenses then you should be fine, as the CF does not directly subsidize your living expenses.



That's not strictly true.  If you live in single quarters (as most do when attending RMC), then your living expenses are subsidized by the CF (that's the reason members in SQ are not entitled to PLD).  So, in order for the above to be true, the ROTP candidate would have to not be living in single quarters (i.e. attending a civilian institution or granted permission to live off campus at RMC).


----------



## ballz (4 Sep 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> That's not strictly true.  If you live in single quarters (as most do when attending RMC), then your living expenses are subsidized by the CF (that's the reason members in SQ are not entitled to PLD).  So, in order for the above to be true, the ROTP candidate would have to not be living in single quarters (i.e. attending a civilian institution or granted permission to live off campus at RMC).



Yes, I guess there are always exceptions, but please clear a few things up for me as I attend Civie U and I know you attended RMC, so:

1. I thought everyone at RMC pays for R&Q? Or are they just paying for rations and not quarters?
2. As a married member with dependants, wouldn't he be elligible to live off-campus?

3. I'm not sure that's "the reason" people are RMC don't get PLD. I _thought_ whether you are paying for quarters or not, if you're living in CF accomodations, you don't get PLD. For example, someone living (and paying rent for) a PMQ at CFB Edmonton would not get the PLD for Edmonton, only those living out on the economy would.

Also, when it comes to "living expenses" I would make the argument that they are not subsidized. Your rent (quarters) may be paid for, but that's only a part of your living expenses. Rations being as expensive as they are, plus the other things that the CF doesn't pay for, it would be easy enough to make that arguement. Thoughts?


----------



## Hodr (4 Sep 2011)

I will be purchasing a house nearby with a small mortgage, so I wont be getting any help From CF for my living expenses, so 
I can legally accept the government payments.

I was told I am allowed the assistance even if I'm not granted permission to live off of campus.


----------



## Pusser (5 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> Yes, I guess there are always exceptions, but please clear a few things up for me as I attend Civie U and I know you attended RMC, so:
> 
> 1. I thought everyone at RMC pays for R&Q? Or are they just paying for rations and not quarters?
> 2. As a married member with dependants, wouldn't he be elligible to live off-campus?
> ...



Actually, I attended Civvi U as well.

1)  I can't say for sure what specifically happens at RMC, but IAW CF regulations, if you are living in SQ, you generally pay R&Q, unless:

     a)  you are maintaining a residence elsewhere ( you don't have to pay for Quarters, but you still have to pay for rations); 
     b)  you are on IR; or
     b)  you are on TD (R&Q are both provided then).

2)  As a married member, he may be permitted to live off campus, but he will have to ask permission.

3)  You misunderstand PLD.  The published explanations of PLD specifically state that PLD is not payable to members living in SQ precisely because those quarters are subsidized.  Furthermore, ration rates are the same across the country, so there is no differential from one base to another, thus no PLD.  An apparent exception to this would be a member on IR, who receives free R&Q where he/she is posted and PLD (if applicable) at the rate for where his/her dependants reside.  Members living in Married Quarters (which are not subsidized) can and do receive PLD.


----------



## ballz (5 Sep 2011)

1. I am 99% certain RMC students pay for both R&Q, so their living expenses are not fully subsidized, so he would be able to use any grants (which are not specific for tuition/books) to pay for the part that's not subsidized. The part that is not subsidized is a pretty hefty sum of money from what my RMC peers tell me, so unless his total grant money starts exceeding $4500 or more, he'd be in the clear.

2. Yes, of course he'd have to "ask for permission," but AFAIK "married with dependants" is as much of an ace-in-the-hole as you can get at RMC.

3. Understood.


----------



## PuckChaser (6 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> 3. I'm not sure that's "the reason" people are RMC don't get PLD. I _thought_ whether you are paying for quarters or not, if you're living in CF accomodations, you don't get PLD. For example, someone living (and paying rent for) a PMQ at CFB Edmonton would not get the PLD for Edmonton, only those living out on the economy would.



I can get PLD and I live in the Qs in Kingston. Its only $80 a month here, so its not really going to help him out much.

Hodr, I wouldn't count on a small mortgage in Kingston and living anywhere close to RMC. You'll be putting out more in gas to get to school and the frustration of a half hour commute than you'll be saving by just getting a 2 bdrm apartment downtown to rent (or getting a PMQ).


----------



## clarkyo (6 Sep 2011)

I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.


----------



## dapaterson (6 Sep 2011)

clarkyo said:
			
		

> I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.



There is no time at ROTP (RMC) to hold down a part-time job.


----------



## Redeye (6 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> Point taken, I have heard from 8 people (recruiters and people currently attending RMC) now that Privates in the reserves
> are being allowed to keep there Pte pay of 32k then 39k after the first year.



This might be possible - I know someone who's jsut starting at RMC and was a Cpl IPC 4 in the PRes - apparently he's keeping his pay. I thought that was rescinded but apparently that was what his offer said.


----------



## Pusser (6 Sep 2011)

clarkyo said:
			
		

> I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.



If he's going to a civvie U, then yes as long as it does not interfere with his primary duty (i.e. going to school and passing).   Don't be cutting class to go to work as technically that would be absenting oneself without authority.  Don't fail because you haven't got time to do your assignments or study either.

RMC students don't generally have the opportunity to get part-time jobs.


----------



## yoman (6 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> 1. I am 99% certain RMC students pay for both R&Q, so their living expenses are not fully subsidized, so he would be able to use any grants (which are not specific for tuition/books) to pay for the part that's not subsidized. The part that is not subsidized is a pretty hefty sum of money from what my RMC peers tell me, so unless his total grant money starts exceeding $4500 or more, he'd be in the clear.
> 
> 2. Yes, of course he'd have to "ask for permission," but AFAIK "married with dependants" is as much of an ace-in-the-hole as you can get at RMC.



RMC students do pay for both rations and quarters. 

I've never heard of someone at RMC and having dependents not being allowed to live off.


----------



## Hodr (6 Sep 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I can get PLD and I live in the Qs in Kingston. Its only $80 a month here, so its not really going to help him out much.
> 
> Hodr, I wouldn't count on a small mortgage in Kingston and living anywhere close to RMC. You'll be putting out more in gas to get to school and the frustration of a half hour commute than you'll be saving by just getting a 2 bdrm apartment downtown to rent (or getting a PMQ).



From what I've seen, I can get a liveable 3 bedroom within 3km for $150k (info from mls Canada website), I can put about 100k into from the sale of my current house
(Mostly my dad's equity so I can't use it to live off since I know some people will ask) that leaves me with 50k in a mortgage.

I should be able with the government assistance program (I found one that I will be able to pay back after graduating) afford that and family expenses.


----------



## Hodr (6 Sep 2011)

clarkyo said:
			
		

> I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.



I have thought about that as well, but if you consider the fact you get job for 5 years afterwards, plus 
the chance to turn the BSc into an MSc later on in your military career, which will allow you more years
or guaranteed work, it seems like a really good long term plan.

Not even mentioning the benefit plan and other bonuses.  

The more I think about the commitment and opportunity, the more I like the idea, and I have
my wife's full support.


----------



## PuckChaser (6 Sep 2011)

Hodr said:
			
		

> From what I've seen, I can get a liveable 3 bedroom within 3km for $150k (info from mls Canada website), I can put about 100k into from the sale of my current house
> (Mostly my dad's equity so I can't use it to live off since I know some people will ask) that leaves me with 50k in a mortgage.



Where in the city? If you send me a PM where you're looking, I can let you know some areas you won't want your wife and kids living in.


----------



## Good2Golf (6 Sep 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Where in the city? If you send me a PM where you're looking, I can let you know some areas you won't want your wife and kids living in.



Patrick St.?


----------



## Hodr (11 Dec 2011)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> There's a piece of good advice.  You can probably expect upwards of 6 years of low end salary - 4 in school + at least 2 in training.
> 
> You will also find that ROTP is geared towards high school graduates entering school the next year - not married, older, wiser people.




It turns out you were right on this, I found a job in the civilian market offering 10% of my tuition costs and $122k salary after school,
maybe after a build a nice nest egg I'll look into direct entry.


----------

