# Treatment of Blacks in World War One...



## the patriot (17 Nov 2000)

M E M O R A N D U M

FROM

GENERAL HEADQUARTERS

OTTAWA, APRIL 1916




"NOTHING IS TO BE GAINED BY BLINKING FACTS, THE CIVILIZED

NEGRO IS VAIN AND IMITATIVE; IN CANADA HE IS NOT IMPELLED

TO ENLIST BY A HIGH SENSE OF DUTY; IN THE TRENCHES HE IS

NOT LIKELY TO MAKE A GOOD FIGHTER; AND THE AVERAGE

WHITE MAN WILL NOT ASSOCIATE WITH HIM ON TERMS OF

EQUALITY," FURTHER, "IN FRANCE, IN THE FIRING LINE, THERE IS

NO PLACE FOR A BLACK BATTALION, C.E.F., IT WOULD BE EYED

ASKANCE; IT WOULD CROWD OUT A WHITE BATTALION; AND IT

WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO RE-INFORCE." "NO WHITE OFFICER

WOULD ACCEPT ON ALL BLACK PLATOON."


 W.G. GWATKIN, MAJOR GENERAL

CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF

OTTAWA


Memorandum from General Headquarters, Ottawa, April 1916  

SOURCE: ROY STATES COLLECTION  
**************************************************

-the patriot-


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## echo (17 Nov 2000)

canada had some problems in the past,
but a good # of them r gone now


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Nov 2000)

A segregated battalion would have been a horrible idea, anyway.

I don‘t see the significance of one single memo, taken out of context.  To whom was the CGS sending this?  Was it ever actually circulated, or was it simply found in his papers?  Was Currie subject to CGS direction, or did the Canadian Corps have autonomy as to the use of minorities?

I do know that many, many Japanese Canadians distinguished themselves in frontline combat in World War One (many went to the Tenth Battalion) and even earned valour decorations.  I wonder what Gwatkin thought of them, and if a similar memo regarding them was circulated at some point. 

Come to that, what did Sir Sam Hughes think of negros?  Wouldn‘t he have been able to veto any decision made by Gwatkin?   Didn‘t the real power lie in Hughes, and not the CGS?  What did the Prime Minister think - or did he have an opinion?

Thought provoking, but this post raises several questions, while in actuality stating nothing.


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## echo (17 Nov 2000)

true true..........


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## the patriot (19 Nov 2000)

The source of the memo is listed under "User Submitted" Links listed as Some Missing Pages: The Great War And The Black Soldier.
It is used in the high school curriculum in Montreal for Black History Month.  Granted, Canada may have had some problems in the past; guess what, they‘re still here now without the lynchings and hangings of days gone by.  These days it‘s practiced "systemically". For example young Echo:

There is a company, let‘s say an accounting firm; both guys have been working there for the same amount of time. A big promotion comes up and these two guys apply for the same posting.  Here‘s the drill.  One of the two is white and the other is black.  Both have university degrees.  Both are well liked by their peers.  The hiring manager in Human Resources, plays golf with the "white" candidate; whereas the black candidate has a small family to raise with a baby son that was recently born, and has a tonne of student loans to pay off. The hiring manager in Human Resources listens to country and hates hip hop music. Guess who gets the job.

The promotion went to the white guy.

In this modern era, this is how racism is practiced and Human Resources departments all across the country will hype up their "Diversity Programs" when it comes to their hiring and promotion practices.  Yet when promotion time comes around,  what really happens is rather unfortunate in the year 2000.

Furthermore with respect to Japanese Canadians in WW1, these same vets who wanted to "fight their motherland" were turned away and sent off to concentration camps in British Columbia when World War II came around.  Imagine the horror of serving for your country, going over the top at Vimy Ridge, then getting kicked in the face and losing your property and bank accounts when you tried to enlist in the Canadian Army for the Second World War.  Not how I would want to be treated after earning medals in a conflict that would make the average person tremble in their boots.

What did my post bring up? Plenty!!! Let‘s look at this again:

NOTHING IS TO BE GAINED BY BLINKING FACTS, THE CIVILIZED

NEGRO IS VAIN AND IMITATIVE; IN CANADA HE IS NOT IMPELLED

TO ENLIST BY A HIGH SENSE OF DUTY; IN THE TRENCHES HE IS

NOT LIKELY TO MAKE A GOOD FIGHTER; AND THE AVERAGE

WHITE MAN WILL NOT ASSOCIATE WITH HIM ON TERMS OF

EQUALITY," 

Major General Gwatkin has pretty much said that Blacks are not loyal troops and are lazy.  The statement, "the average white man will not associate with him on terms of equality", means that whites would rather not have anything to do with Blacks in any way or form.  So, inspite of the fact that Canada did not have slavery, racist ideals still permeated the minds of the populus.  If this is something that will get me shot due to treason so be it.  Do remember that the Queen Mother whose birthday was celebrated most recently, is extremely reviled by East Indians and Blacks.  Here is why.  The Kohinoor diamond, which was "obtained" by the child King of Punjab (by force, he was threatened the obliteration of his people and what was left of his kingdom by the British East India Company).  That very Kohinoor diamond is the centre of the Queen Mother‘s crown.  Hence the term for India being called The Jewel of the Crown or "The Raj".  Furthermore, the Queen Mother was pro-apartheid in South Africa.  We all know how Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko were treated as a result of apartheid‘s policies.  Feeling proud of the Paardeberg battle honour are we?!  It was a war of the British against the Afrikaaners (the Dutch) over what.  As usal land!!!!  Who lost out due to this.  The ethnic minorities who were Blacks, and East Indians living in South Africa at the time.  Don‘t we all remember that Mahatma Gandhi was kicked off a 1st Class Rail Car seat in South Africa (because he was not white).  This is what got him so annoyed with the British that made him return to India to push for independance from racist British colonialism.

-the patriot-


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## Michael Dorosh (19 Nov 2000)

So Gwatkin was a bigot.  What I am asking is - so what?  Did his thoughts become government policy?  Or was this simply a memo that was never circulated?  Everyone‘s entitled to an opinion, no matter how stupid it is. Even if this did become government policy, what impelled him to write the memo?  Had a battalion of blacks actually been raised?  Did they take to their training, or did they burn their tents down and refuse to wear packs?  Were the majority of recruits vain and imitative?  Were they poor soldiers who weren‘t well liked by their officers?   Is it possible Gwatkin had reason to say what to us are incredibly insensitive and ignorant statements?  

I am stretching things on purpose - it is also quite possible Gwatkin wrote this purely out of blind racist hatred - but one does want to caution themselves against taking things out of context.

Yes, Canada was a racist country during the world wars.  They were also fighting against very determined enemies, and as has been argued with the policies towards homosexuals - I don‘t suppose they had time to stop for social experimentation.  Aren‘t we so smart, looking back with 80 years of hindsight.  If any of us were in charge of the army in 1916, would we have been brave enough to demand the integration of blacks?  The Canadian Corps was being bled white (ptp) on the Somme and you or I would start championing social causes?  To what end?  How many potential recruits "of colour" would have even existed in Canada?  And why would anyone even consider it, if that was the mindset of all of one‘s compatriots?  Even if you or I had, no one would have listened to us.  I‘d like to think the recent discussion on this board of minorities in today‘s forces was correct - and that the kind of nonsense Gwatkin spouted is well and truly dead.  I was sincere in my comments that all soldiers are green, not black or white or yellow or red.  I suspect the other posters were too.  We can‘t change the past but we can do the right thing today.

As for the treatment of Japanese Canadians in WW II - there was no excuse for that and it was little different from the Germans‘ treatment of the Jews (though of course we weren‘t murdering them).  You are correct - many decorated WW I veterans were turned away; some returned their medals in disgust.  Can‘t blame them.

As for your "example" of racism today - well and good.  What do you propose we do about it?

I sense some revisionism here.  Of course Canadians in 1916 and 1942 were racists.  I‘ll bet a lot of Japanese and Germans living in those years were, too.  How many other countries in the world allowed so many other nationalities and races into their borders in such large numbers?  Pretty impressive when you think about it - you wouldn‘t expect the Bundeswehr to recruit all-Turkish battalions today, would you?  You mean we accepted people literally from around the world and they all didn‘t get along?  I don‘t find that so hard to understand.  I can see why it still goes on.  You can tell people how to act but you can‘t tell them what to think.  

And you know what?  If we do get to that point, this country will no longer be worth living in - or fighting for.


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## echo (19 Nov 2000)

from what i see today,
things have changed significantly from those day.
granted there is  still rascism but from what i saw at the armoury,
the fight on racism has been won.


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## Art Johnson (29 Nov 2000)

Just a point of interest. I believe that Canada had four so called "basket cases", quadruple amputees, from WWI. One of them Curly (I can‘t for the life of me remember his last name) was a black man. He, his wife, who I believe was a nurse, his children and grandchildren were all well respected members of the War Amps of Canada family. I only met Curly once it was at the limb factory in Sunnybrook Hospital he came in by opening the swinging doors whith his shoulder. I‘ll tell you he sure had guts. After Curly passed away his wife still attended functions at the Toronto Branch of the War Amps as did their daughter after the mother passed away.


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## checbenj (29 Feb 2008)

Hi Art
I came across this post the other day because my father was a black man who served in the Army during ww2.  I also came across this information
 There were unknown and forgotten heros like James Grant, who came from St. Catharines, Ontario, and received the Military Cross in 1918. Roy Fells of Yarmouth, Nova Scotia was awarded the Military Medal while serving with the famed 25th Battalion from Nova Scotia. A black soldier, Curly Christian had the distinction of being the lone quadrilateral amputee to survive the war. He was present at the unveiling of the Vimy Ridge Memorial in 1936. And Jeremiah Jones of Truro, Nova Scotia, who crossed the bloody battlefield at Vimy Ridge and took an enemy machine-gun nest. I hope this helps renew interest in the question regarding the role of "Blacks" in the Military


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## 54/102 CEF (1 Mar 2008)

That memo would get a well deserved FAIL mark in any course I`ve ever seen. Suggest you find the academic references or mods apply the lock-ola immediately :threat:

See what a passable reference looks like here http://www.biographi.ca/EN/ShowBio.asp?BioId=42313

Clearly it was a different time - but it doesn't excuse lack of references.


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## Michael OLeary (1 Mar 2008)

54/102 CEF said:
			
		

> That memo would get a well deserved FAIL mark in any course I`ve ever seen. Suggest you find the academic references or mods apply the lock-ola immediately :threat:



Google "gwatkin black soldier" (without the quotation marks) to fine related references.


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## 54/102 CEF (1 Mar 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Google "gwatkin black soldier" (without the quotation marks) to fine related references.



Afraid you fail too - these are secondary refs and so far the argument level is highschool or lower.


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## Michael OLeary (1 Mar 2008)

Then prove it's false.


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## 54/102 CEF (1 Mar 2008)

I`m just pointing out that writers should give the refs - a prime ARMY.CA operating principle.


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## Michael OLeary (1 Mar 2008)

http://www.cmea-agmc.ca/history_Pictou_e.asp

Fourth Dimension; By Charmion Chaplin-Thomas



> In Pictou, N.S., black men gather at the headquarters of No. 2 Construction Battalion, a Canadian Expeditionary Force unit recruiting "coloured" men. It has taken nearly two years of hard lobbying to get black men into the army. They see war service not only as the great adventure of their life time, but also as their right and responsibility as citizens. *Major-General Willoughby Gwatkin in Ottawa does not share this opinion, however; only a few weeks ago, he wrote in an official memorandum "...the civilized negro is vain and imitative; in Canada he is not being impelled to enlist by a high sense of duty."* Under fierce pressure, MGen Gwatkin finally backed down enough, as he put it, "to allow them to form one or more labour battalions. Negroes from Nova Scotia, for example, would not be unsuitable for the purpose."





> "Fourth Dimension" is a regular feature written for the Canadian Forces
> newspaper The Maple Leaf, published by the Department of National Defence.



Perhaps you can challenge Ms Chaplin-Thomas to provide her sources.


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## Michael OLeary (1 Mar 2008)

54/102 CEF said:
			
		

> I`m just pointing out that writers should give the refs - a prime ARMY.CA operating principle.



Which was not as strongly expected in 2000, which is when this thread existed until today.


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## checbenj (1 Mar 2008)

To Clarify
I responded to this thread because of my heritage.  The last posting by Art Johnson referred to a black soldier from the first world war who gave up 2 arms 2 legs whose name was curly.  This interested me so I did a quick search and I posted without the source the information I found (although a 'secondary source' I trust the source  As for the comments not referring to Curly, they are not my comments (with all due respect). 

Here is the link where I copied the info I shared earlier.
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=feature/black_history/battalion


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## 54/102 CEF (1 Mar 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> http://www.cmea-agmc.ca/history_Pictou_e.asp
> 
> Fourth Dimension; By Charmion Chaplin-Thomas
> 
> Perhaps you can challenge Ms Chaplin-Thomas to provide her sources.



Good idea Michael - Canadian Army Journal may well not publish her stuff for the same reasons. I've been wanting to send her a note for a while. Will advise.


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## muskrat89 (1 Mar 2008)

chec - thanks for your post. I believe 54/102 was taking umbrage with one of the original posters. Basically getting all wound up about posts that were made 8 years ago...

No worries

Army.ca Staff


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## checbenj (1 Mar 2008)

Thanks 
Thanks
What I find interesting is that the comments are of the nature 'can you prove that " rather than exploring the reality of Black Canadians who have served in the forces and often experienced the reality of war with our Countries' enemies as well as the battle to maintain dignity in the face of bigotry. A number of my Uncles who served often got duties such as drivers cooks orderlies.  I would find it very interesting if a historian would explore the number of non-white soldiers during the first and second world wars who served in the rear echelons and compare that number with the number of non white soldiers who where front line in the trenchs elbow to elbow.  I have also often wondered about the number of non white soldiers who recieved field commisions from the other ranks. I feel this informatin and discussion might  shed some light on the the Black Soldiers experience during the Wars.  I am sure it has changed significant since then.


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## checbenj (1 Mar 2008)

re:
 Perhaps you can challenge Ms Chaplin-Thomas to provide her sources
Maybe this will help! This reprint was found on this web page and states the orginal is in the National Archives 
http://www.littletechshoppe.com/ns1625/conbat2a. Maybe I have saved Ms Chaplin-Thomas some time

1916 April 13

Chief of the General Staff
13 April 1916
Memorandum on the
enlistment of Negroes in
Canadian Expeditionary Force
1.  Nothing is to be gained by blinking facts.  The civilized negro is vain and imitative; in Canada he is not being impelled to enlist by a high sense of duty; in the trenches he is not likely to make a good fighter; and the average white man will not associate with him on terms of equality.  Not a single commanding officer in Military District No. 2 is willing to accept a coloured platoon as part of his battalion (H.Q. 297-1-29); and it would be humiliating to the coloured men themselves to serve in a battalion where they were not wanted.

2.  In France, in the firing line, there is no place for a black battalion, C.E.F.  It would be eyed askance; it would crowd out a white battalion; and it would be difficult to re-inforce.

3.  Nor could it be left in England and used as a draft-giving depot; for there would be trouble if negroes were sent to the front for the purpose of reinforcing white battalions; and, if they are any good at all, they would resent being kept in Canada for the purpose of finding guards, etc.

4.  It seems, therefore, that three courses are practicable: 

      (a) As at present, to allow Negroes to enlist, individually, into white battalions at the discretion of commanding officers. 

      (b) To allow them to form one or more labour battalions.  Negroes from Nova Scotia, for example, would not be unsuitable for the purpose. 

      (c) To ask the British Government if it can make use of a black battalion, C.E.F., on special duty overseas (e.g. in Egypt): but the battalion will not be ready before the fall, and, if only on account of its relatively extravagant rates of pay, it will not mix well with other troops.

5.  I recommend courses (a) and (b).

W. Gwatkin
Major-General
Chief of the General Staff
13.4.16 
— Original in Public Archives of Canada, Ottawa


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## 54/102 CEF (1 Mar 2008)

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> chec - thanks for your post. I believe 54/102 was taking umbrage with one of the original posters. Basically getting all wound up about posts that were made 8 years ago...
> 
> No worries
> 
> Army.ca Staff



So solly - egg on my face


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## Yrys (1 Mar 2008)

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> Basically getting all wound up about posts that were made 8 years ago...



It must be the king of necro ...


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## ADMCLK831 (18 Jun 2012)

To all, bigotry, racism and sexism still exists.  One must remember that the CF is a direct reflection of the Canadian People.


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## aesop081 (18 Jun 2012)

ADMCLK831 said:
			
		

> To all, bigotry, racism and sexism still exists.  One must remember that the CF is a direct reflection of the Canadian People.



Thanks for reviving this one.......... :


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