# Haven't We Done The "Target" Recruiting Before?



## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Apr 2008)

Non-white military might needs boost
Despite Canadian Forces ad campaigns targeting women, aboriginals and visible minorities, recruitment numbers remain stubbornly low

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, SUN MEDIA SPECIAL
The Ottawa Sun     
OTTAWA -- Canada's military is struggling to shed its "white guys" image, embracing more culture and diversity to put a more colourful face on the armed forces. 
Employment equity law, ramped-up recruitment drives and targeted ad campaigns have tried to break down the homogeneous tradition and attract more women, aboriginals and visible minorities to the mix. But their numbers remain stubbornly low. A 2006 report showed natives represented a marginal 1.5% of the regular and primary reserves, visible minorities just 2.7% and women 15.1% -- and figures have barely budged since then. 

Driven in part by ideology and in part by operational necessity, the military is making concerted new efforts to boost those numbers to 2.8%, 9.1% and 19.5% over five years. A new working group recently launched a sweeping six-month study designed to root out underlying reasons for the lagging numbers and devise ways to pick up the recruitment pace. 
"It's important for the Canadian Forces to reflect the Canadian population as a whole," said Lt.-Commander Rohit Gulati, who's in charge of the diversity program. "The military must represent the people. If we are a national institution, we must reflect the population, because if the population doesn't see themselves reflected, we will lose touch with them, and them with us." 

Gulati calls it the "million dollar question" why numbers remain so low, since the military has moved from a conform-and-adapt mantra to one that accommodates diverse religious practices and cultural traditions. Flexible policies allow wearing the Sikh turban, Metis sash, Muslim hijab or Jewish yarmulke and provide halal, kosher or other special religious dietary requirements on army bases. 
"We've got all those pegs in place, but we're still not getting the numbers. In fact, it's hard to get people in and the recruiting groups are having a bit of a tough time," he said. 

Recruitment is easier in outlying regions and smaller provinces, where the CF has established a traditional, visible presence. But in big cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, where most of the visible minorities live, the CF doesn't register high as a potential career choice for many young people. 
The new working group study will review outreach programs, ethnic advertising and explore the best ways to target specific communities. In some ethnic groups, the offer of educational opportunities may be the inroad, while technical trade training could be the ticket in another. 
The son of immigrant parents from India who grew up in Halifax, Gulati calls the military a "meritocracy" with zero tolerance for racial discrimination. 

"People don't care what colour you are, it's how well can you do your job, and you're promoted based on that. If you look at our performance evaluation system, it is basically colour blind," he said. "I've never felt that race was an issue. After the first couple of hours people evaluate you based on who you are rather than what colour you are. That's my experience, anyway." 
Better reflecting Canadian society is a primary goal of diversity targets, but Gulati said there are operational advantages to having more women and a multicultural military -- especially on missions like Kandahar. 

"When the local women there see a female soldier, they will respect her. They will be very impressed, it will be a role model for them. And in dealing with the locals it is very difficult for men to deal with traditional Afghani women. It has to be a woman, so for a woman to be there she has more access to that group, and that brings an operational advantage," he said. "And if you have an Afghani-Canadian who understands the language and nuances of the culture, that brings another operational edge to the group." 
Anthony Salloum, program director for the Ottawa-based Rideau Institute, said it's "problematic" to have low representation of aboriginals and visible minorities in any key public sector. He believes many aren't signing up because they don't support the war in Afghanistan or are turned off by the "Fight" campaign ads. 

"That might be appealing to some sectors of our society, but you're not speaking the language of many of our ethnic minorities, including those who come from war-torn regions," he said. "Many of them are coming to Canada for peace, so the idea of joining up to 'Fight' may not be an appealing message. It's a very aggressive word and that might be really muting the enthusiasm of our visible minority communities to join the armed forces." 
Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, the chief of land staff and the Canadian Forces' "aboriginal champion," said the military must be flexible and reject a "cookie cutter" approach to attract and retain visible minorities and aboriginals. He noted that the sudden culture shock of drill, orders and fitness training for new recruits on base is even more jarring for someone who grew up in a remote, isolated native community and is now separated from family in Shilo, Man., or Wainwright, Alta. 

"Let's not kid ourselves, the army culture is a little bit different from that which you find just about anywhere else in Canada," he said. "We've got to be more accommodating in not trying to cram our army culture down the throat of great young Canadians who may not understand it when they first walk through the door." 
Leslie said natives are "natural soldiers" who bring to the job a deep understanding of the land, inherent survival skills and incredible self-reliance, patience and persistence. And as the fastest-growing population in Canada -- with a majority under 25 years old -- he said aboriginals represent a big "potential recruiting pool." 

Aboriginal Master Warrant Officer John Young dreamed of being a soldier from when he was a young boy living on Manitoulin Island. He signed up at 17, and with 33 years in the military under his belt he now spends his days criss-crossing the country encouraging others to follow his dream. 
As Leslie's aboriginal adviser, his job is to establish and nurture mentoring and recruitment programs, recommend policy and help break down barriers. 

Despite a long, proud tradition of natives serving in arms, Young said there are many reasons why the numbers are so sparse now. A strong economy has offered vast career options, many are reluctant to leave tight-knit native communities, and others harbour lingering resentment for past injustices for aboriginal Canadians. 
"Memories do run long, and there are some concerns after the Second World War and the Korean War, the treatment of aboriginal veterans," he said. "There is still some concern about residential schools. All these things you read in the paper that affect the Canadian public affect the aboriginal population." 

But Young hopes a number of youth initiatives, an aboriginal entry college program and a welcoming attitude toward braids, sweetgrass and pow wows will help promote the CF as a viable career path. He has no regrets about his choice, looking back to adventure and travel to every corner of the country and spots around the globe. 
"It's been a really great lifestyle that has offered me sights and scenes I would have never seen if I'd been a hard rock miner in northern Ontario," he said. 

--- 

Current representation of designated group members in CF regular force and primary reserve: 

Women: 15.1% 

Five-year goal: 19.5% 

Visible Minorities 2.7% 

Five-year goal: 9.1% 

Aboriginal people 1.5% 

Five-year goal: 2.8% 


Personally, I'm more concerned with just getting our numbers in total higher.........


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## Celticgirl (27 Apr 2008)

I'm venturing a guess that the security clearance is one problem with regards to the low number people in these target groups getting into the military. How many ethnically diverse people have been out of the country in the last 10 years or have relatives who still live, have returned to, or have spent large amounts of time in another country? They can campaign all they want, but if this process is going to continue to take years in some cases then we are going to see the same results in the future. This is likely not the only reason, but I do think it very well could be a big one.


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## GUNS (27 Apr 2008)

" Targeting" certain groups for recruitment in the CF is not an issue. An issue arises when rules and requirements are altered to accommodate these " Targeted " groups.
All those who want to be part of this great military family will join and those who don't, won't.


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## Celticgirl (27 Apr 2008)

GUNS said:
			
		

> " Targeting" certain groups for recruitment in the CF is not an issue. An issue arises when rules and requirements are altered to accommodate these " Targeted " groups.
> All those who want to be part of this great military family will join and those who don't, won't.



Making changes does not necessarily equate lowering the standards. 



> Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


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## stryte (27 Apr 2008)

GUNS said:
			
		

> " Targeting" certain groups for recruitment in the CF is not an issue. An issue arises when rules and requirements are altered to accommodate these " Targeted " groups.
> All those who want to be part of this great military family will join and those who don't, won't.



I do not believe that the CF will alter rules and requirements as a means of accommodating these groups. 

What I do believe is these #'s represent the percentage of each group in the CF applicant pool so the CF is trying to determine how they can increase the # of successful applicants in each group.  It is important to understand why applicants from these groups are leaving the CF or not accepting employment to begin with. I think a good example of how the CF is trying to tackle this is the Aboriginal Leadership Opportunity Year or Aboriginal Pre-recruit Training Course.


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## garb811 (27 Apr 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I'm venturing a guess that the security clearance is one problem with regards to the low number people in these target groups getting into the military. How many ethnically diverse people have been out of the country in the last 10 years or have relatives who still live, have returned to, or have spent large amounts of time in another country? They can campaign all they want, but if this process is going to continue to take years in some cases then we are going to see the same results in the future. This is likely not the only reason, but I do think it very well could be a big one.


Security Clearances are not going to be playing a huge factor in this issue.  Unless the *applicant* has *lived* outside Canada it is virtually a non-issue.

The real reasons are not unknown, there have been many studies done over the past 20 years on trying to solve this issue.  Obviously knowing the problem does not equate to being able to fix it.


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## Brad Sallows (27 Apr 2008)

Each of the services *is* a culture.  To speak of the services reflecting the Canadian population is nonsense - the Forces are not even a proper reflection of "young white guy" culture as it exists at this time.  The whole point is that people must want to adapt to the service cultures - army, navy, air force.  And, to the extent that the service way of life and what it represents already partially align with certain sub-cultures in Canada, those sub-cultures will be over-represented.  The only way to change that is to change the institution: less discipline, more freedom, greater compensation and benefits, flexible time for leisure and family pursuits, and all the other things valued by young people today.  Of course, not all of those features align well with the institution and one might risk corroding its integrity.  But for those who wish to fiddle to merely be fashionable, there is the Post Office.

The problem facing the CF is that Canada is already experiencing a shift in age-wise demographics and the economy is healthy.  It's a seller's market for labour in the major metropolitan areas where, coincidentally, most of the visible minorities live.

Undoubtedly some people will be attracted by educational and technical training opportunities.  But in attempting to make the Forces reflect the population, let's not end up with only parts of the Forces reflecting parts of the population.  If the combat arms - particularly the infantry - do not reflect the population, then the measures taken are just window dressing.

If people are turned off by the "fight" aspect, they don't belong in the CF.  Their enthusiasm for public service should be directed to other public institutions.  The last thing needed is a burdensome head count of people who will suddenly become undeployable or released when faced with sea time or a field deployment instead of whatever other commitment it was they thought they were making.

The recruiting strengths of the services are that you can start with a high school education, and that you are paid and housed to attend all of the training required to perform your duties.

One additional enticement is a "GI Bill" provision for education: up to 4 years, tuition and fees all paid, at any accredited/recognized Canadian post-secondary institution.  Yes, it will cost money.  Yes, there will be high turnover: people who do X years' service to qualify and then quit.  Yes, it will get up the nose of all the people who think the benefits of employment in the CF should not be greater than any other federal public service.  Yes, it will probably get up the nose of people in the CF if the conditions are limited to ensure the point is to attract people to actual field, sea, and airfield deployable trades.

Regardless what solutions might be effectual, if the adults in charge are not prepared to recognize the differences between the groups that are spending lots of time abroad and at risk versus those who are not, or the obvious intangible benefits of a non-CF public service job in Canada, I can not grant them the benefit of regarding their concerns or intentions as serious.


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## Jorkapp (27 Apr 2008)

> One additional enticement is a "GI Bill" provision for education: up to 4 years, tuition and fees all paid, at any accredited/recognized Canadian post-secondary institution.



We already have provisions for education:

On entry/transfer: http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/resources/subsidizededucation_en.aspx?bhcp=1

There are quite a few educational benefits for currently serving and releasing members, both government funded and through NPF (SISIP).


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## benny88 (27 Apr 2008)

AEC Kapp said:
			
		

> We already have provisions for education:
> 
> On entry/transfer: http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/resources/subsidizededucation_en.aspx?bhcp=1
> 
> There are quite a few educational benefits for currently serving and releasing members, both government funded and through NPF (SISIP).



I think Brad was talking more about education opportunities for NCMs after they release, not for Officers before they begin to serve.


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## Brad Sallows (27 Apr 2008)

Yes, Brad is talking about post-release, no-strings-attached educational funding.


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## Infanteer (27 Apr 2008)

Good to see that while the Army is busy fighting a war Ottawa has maintained its status quo.... :


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## aesop081 (27 Apr 2008)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Good to see that while the Army, *Air Force and Navy * is busy fighting a war Ottawa has maintained its status quo.... :


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## dapaterson (27 Apr 2008)

In the Primary Reserve all members can qualify for 50% of tuition and books reimbursed annually, to an annual limit of $2000 and a lifetime limit of $8000.

Interesting how we do the numbers, though: only the Primary Reserve, no other sub-components.  That way we drop the Canadian Rangers from the totals, understating the number of aboriginals serving in the CF.


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## George Wallace (27 Apr 2008)

I just read this, and this stood out as a comment of someone who really doesn't know of what they are talking about:


> "When the local women there see a female soldier, they will respect her. They will be very impressed, it will be a role model for them. And in dealing with the locals it is very difficult for men to deal with traditional Afghani women. It has to be a woman, so for a woman to be there she has more access to that group, and that brings an operational advantage," he said. "And if you have an Afghani-Canadian who understands the language and nuances of the culture, that brings another operational edge to the group."



First off; is the author talking about "Money" women or what?   ;D

A serious observation there that instantly points out the lack of knowledge on the author's part.  

More importantly though; very seldom are we in contact with Afghan women.  In fact we can say it is a very rare event, and even Canadian soldiers who happen to be female have little affect on that.  It is a 'cultural thing' that prevents us "Westerners"/infidels from meeting, let alone see, Afghan women.  

Recruiting women will make little difference here.


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## Armymedic (27 Apr 2008)

If any and all recruiting drives succeed in gaining more recruits, then who cares if they are targeting certain groups. Good advertising always has a target audience. Why shouldn't the CF?


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## jollyjacktar (27 Apr 2008)

AEC Kapp said:
			
		

> We already have provisions for education:
> 
> On entry/transfer: http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/resources/subsidizededucation_en.aspx?bhcp=1
> 
> There are quite a few educational benefits for currently serving and releasing members, both government funded and through NPF (SISIP).



Don't make me laugh.  The educational benefits available today are a slap in the face compaired to what was on offer when I originally enroled.  I think Brad has hit it right on the nose with a similar plan to what the US offered.  Even the men mustering out of the forces following the war got a better retraining deal than what is going now.  Ottawa is always looking for ways to save money.  And from my POV it is usually at the members (NCM's in particular) expense.


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## RTaylor (27 Apr 2008)

If they want to inflate the recruits of any type, minority or not, they have to do something besides Basic Up to show the path into the military and the ways of life that can be had.

So many people are under the stereotypical impression that as soon as you sign the line your life is over, you eat metal bits morning, noon and night, you train non stop to murder and eat babies and the pay is shit.

I've literally educated so many epople around me in the past months that I've almost become a 1 man recruiting center. Alot of people have left or are leaving my current call center for the armed forces directly because of me and educating them properly, pointing them in the right direction and letting them learn. Most were white, granted that, but one has been a black man (I say Black man because to me labelling anyone African American is racist. They could be from Trinidad, Morocco, the Middle East, South America, Cuba, Mexico and several other places and be very dark skinned) and several like myself are Metis or Native in ancestry.

Policies and numbers are good and great to shoot for, but who doesn't agree with me that the military has to, plain and simple, haul it's head out of it's ass and promote itself more with more readily available information besides the stiff, scripted crap you see almost everywhere? Does the possible recruits know about RFT, the pay scales upon entering and what really goes on? Nope. And with todays culture having this info readily available would go over very smoothly IMO (although the ranks of the RFT would swell, I think that there's alot of benefit that could be had because alot of _very_ intelligent people have their physical health holding them back).

Personally, I think a promotional campaign showing the monotony of life in the military would go over extremely well. A commercial with a few techs working on something awesome that looks like a strange place (or on something interesting) then leaving and going home to the family, or some people overseas talking to their family via webcam after a few shots of a patrol, stuff like that would go over extremely well. Many people would jump at the chance to enlist but old beliefs are just too deep. 

That's just my 2c worth though. And from what I've seen the current recruitment efforts still seem to be kind of gimped. It's not the minority recruitment that has to be looked at, _it's the whole process overall._


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## benny88 (28 Apr 2008)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Don't make me laugh.  The educational benefits available today are a slap in the face compaired to what was on offer when I originally enroled.  I think Brad has hit it right on the nose with a similar plan to what the US offered.  Even the men mustering out of the forces following the war got a better retraining deal than what is going now.  Ottawa is always looking for ways to save money.  And from my POV it is usually at the members (NCM's in particular) expense.



   The one's AEC Kapp quoted are all, IIRC, for officers, and although I believe your post was mostly directed towards the NCM's system being inadequate; I have nothing but praise, at least for ROTP. Just posting this in case someone were to read this thread and be turned off for the wrong reasons, not because I don't think it's a good idea to have some sort of program like the example Brad offered.


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## jollyjacktar (28 Apr 2008)

Yes indeed, I was speaking from and for the lower decks.  The UTPM and ROTP are fine I'm sure, and a good thing that it is offered.  But for the rest of us, we are getting screwed badly. IMHO.  With the cost of post secondary education today it would be a great incentive to potential new recruits if they could get a real step up after release.  I don't honestly know if the US still offers this, but when I did take a look at them 25+ years ago they did.  And it was tempting.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Apr 2008)

RTaylor said:
			
		

> I've literally educated so many people around me in the past months that I've almost become a 1 man recruiting center. Alot of people have left or are leaving my current call center for the armed forces directly because of me and educating them properly, pointing them in the right direction and letting them learn. Most were white, granted that, but one has been a black man (I say Black man because to me labelling anyone African American is racist. They could be from Trinidad, Morocco, the Middle East, South America, Cuba, Mexico and several other places and be very dark skinned) and several like myself are Metis or Native in ancestry.
> 
> Policies and numbers are good and great to shoot for, but who doesn't agree with me that the military has to, plain and simple, haul it's head out of it's *** and promote itself more with more readily available information besides the stiff, scripted crap you see almost everywhere? Does the possible recruits know about RFT, the pay scales upon entering and what really goes on? Nope. And with todays culture having this info readily available would go over very smoothly IMO (although the ranks of the RFT would swell, I think that there's alot of benefit that could be had because alot of _very_ intelligent people have their physical health holding them back).



An outstanding example of the kind of leadership we need to help recruit more of the right kind of people (of whatever ethnic background). Well done RTaylor.

I'm fortunate to be able to work with some high quality marketing consultants and they get a good laugh out of our recruiting efforts. As I understand it, one of the best ways to convince the current demographic to do anything is to equip 'honest brokers' with high amounts of credibility with the target audience, like RTaylor, to explain what it's all about. They use the term 'contagious' to describe the way that this information spreads most effectively. TV ads, and other promotional materials, needs to support this approach fully and address the information needs of your audience. I don't know who's doing the ad building these days, but I'm not sure if they've hit the mark for Gen Y/Next. 

In my simple world it's kind of like an advance to contact: the organization needs to be aligned to support the troops at the sharp end.


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## Greymatters (28 Apr 2008)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I'm fortunate to be able to work with some high quality marketing consultants and they get a good laugh out of our recruiting efforts. As I understand it, one of the best ways to convince the current demographic to do anything is to equip 'honest brokers' with high amounts of credibility with the target audience, like RTaylor, to explain what it's all about. They use the term 'contagious' to describe the way that this information spreads most effectively. TV ads, and other promotional materials, needs to support this approach fully and address the information needs of your audience. I don't know who's doing the ad building these days, but I'm not sure if they've hit the mark for Gen Y/Next.



I would think that the 'big mistake' is being made by who is approving the ads - professionals in the 40-60 YOA bracket are deciding whether material targeted at an audience of 20-25 is 'on the mark'...


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## benny88 (28 Apr 2008)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> An outstanding example of the kind of leadership we need to help recruit more of the right kind of people (of whatever ethnic background). Well done RTaylor.
> 
> I'm fortunate to be able to work with some high quality marketing consultants and they get a good laugh out of our recruiting efforts. As I understand it, one of the best ways to convince the current demographic to do anything is to equip 'honest brokers' with high amounts of credibility with the target audience, like RTaylor, to explain what it's all about. They use the term 'contagious' to describe the way that this information spreads most effectively. TV ads, and other promotional materials, needs to support this approach fully and address the information needs of your audience. I don't know who's doing the ad building these days,* but I'm not sure if they've hit the mark for Gen Y/Next. *



    I think OCdts (and reservists) at Civvy-U are an untapped recruiting resource for others 18-24. I won't profess to be very knowledgable, but I can at least give people the recruiting website. So far this year I have helped encourage 2 guys to apply for Pilot, 1 for Infantry reserves, 1 potential Cmbt Eng and 1 potential Dental O. 
   One smart thing ASU London did was give me a backpack to wear on campus with the Tri-force on it as well as recruiting phone number and website. I like it because it reminds me to work hard every day, and it's easy, cheap recruiting, several people have asked me questions because of it.


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## RTaylor (3 May 2008)

Since I made my post I have 2 more people going to the recruiting center.

I think I should get a commission for this  ;D

And only if I'd actually get MY call...sigh...the wait is killin me


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## armyguy62 (3 May 2008)

I can't help but think that targetting could not possibly work. People who join the service have a certain "je ne sais quoi" and I would venture that an effort should be made to get information to those who have it (that je ne sais quoi) but don't know it, or those who have it and are too timid to embrace it. A lot of money is spent training mooks who think they are ready for Delta Force but are crying by day three of basic.


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## daftandbarmy (7 May 2008)

RTaylor said:
			
		

> Since I made my post I have 2 more people going to the recruiting center.
> 
> I think I should get a commission for this  ;D
> 
> And only if I'd actually get MY call...sigh...the wait is killin me



They'll probably make you a 'Sultan' if you get your tartgeting right


Non-white military might needs boost

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2008/04/27/5401911-sun.html

"He believes many aren't signing up because they don't support the war in Afghanistan or are turned off by the "Fight" campaign ads." 



Despite Canadian Forces ad campaigns targeting women, aboriginals and visible minorities, recruitment numbers remain stubbornly low

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, SUN MEDIA SPECIAL

The Ottawa Sun     



  




OTTAWA -- Canada's military is struggling to shed its "white guys" image, embracing more culture and diversity to put a more colourful face on the armed forces. 

Employment equity law, ramped-up recruitment drives and targeted ad campaigns have tried to break down the homogeneous tradition and attract more women, aboriginals and visible minorities to the mix. But their numbers remain stubbornly low. A 2006 report showed natives represented a marginal 1.5% of the regular and primary reserves, visible minorities just 2.7% and women 15.1% -- and figures have barely budged since then. 

Driven in part by ideology and in part by operational necessity, the military is making concerted new efforts to boost those numbers to 2.8%, 9.1% and 19.5% over five years. A new working group recently launched a sweeping six-month study designed to root out underlying reasons for the lagging numbers and devise ways to pick up the recruitment pace. 

"It's important for the Canadian Forces to reflect the Canadian population as a whole," said Lt.-Commander Rohit Gulati, who's in charge of the diversity program. "The military must represent the people. If we are a national institution, we must reflect the population, because if the population doesn't see themselves reflected, we will lose touch with them, and them with us." 

Gulati calls it the "million dollar question" why numbers remain so low, since the military has moved from a conform-and-adapt mantra to one that accommodates diverse religious practices and cultural traditions. Flexible policies allow wearing the Sikh turban, Metis sash, Muslim hijab or Jewish yarmulke and provide halal, kosher or other special religious dietary requirements on army bases. 

"We've got all those pegs in place, but we're still not getting the numbers. In fact, it's hard to get people in and the recruiting groups are having a bit of a tough time," he said. 

Recruitment is easier in outlying regions and smaller provinces, where the CF has established a traditional, visible presence. But in big cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, where most of the visible minorities live, the CF doesn't register high as a potential career choice for many young people. 

The new working group study will review outreach programs, ethnic advertising and explore the best ways to target specific communities. In some ethnic groups, the offer of educational opportunities may be the inroad, while technical trade training could be the ticket in another. 

The son of immigrant parents from India who grew up in Halifax, Gulati calls the military a "meritocracy" with zero tolerance for racial discrimination. 

"People don't care what colour you are, it's how well can you do your job, and you're promoted based on that. If you look at our performance evaluation system, it is basically colour blind," he said. "I've never felt that race was an issue. After the first couple of hours people evaluate you based on who you are rather than what colour you are. That's my experience, anyway." 

Better reflecting Canadian society is a primary goal of diversity targets, but Gulati said there are operational advantages to having more women and a multicultural military -- especially on missions like Kandahar. 

"When the local women there see a female soldier, they will respect her. They will be very impressed, it will be a role model for them. And in dealing with the locals it is very difficult for men to deal with traditional Afghani women. It has to be a woman, so for a woman to be there she has more access to that group, and that brings an operational advantage," he said. "And if you have an Afghani-Canadian who understands the language and nuances of the culture, that brings another operational edge to the group." 

Anthony Salloum, program director for the Ottawa-based Rideau Institute, said it's "problematic" to have low representation of aboriginals and visible minorities in any key public sector. He believes many aren't signing up because they don't support the war in Afghanistan or are turned off by the "Fight" campaign ads. 

"That might be appealing to some sectors of our society, but you're not speaking the language of many of our ethnic minorities, including those who come from war-torn regions," he said. "Many of them are coming to Canada for peace, so the idea of joining up to 'Fight' may not be an appealing message. It's a very aggressive word and that might be really muting the enthusiasm of our visible minority communities to join the armed forces." 

Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, the chief of land staff and the Canadian Forces' "aboriginal champion," said the military must be flexible and reject a "cookie cutter" approach to attract and retain visible minorities and aboriginals. He noted that the sudden culture shock of drill, orders and fitness training for new recruits on base is even more jarring for someone who grew up in a remote, isolated native community and is now separated from family in Shilo, Man., or Wainwright, Alta. 

"Let's not kid ourselves, the army culture is a little bit different from that which you find just about anywhere else in Canada," he said. "We've got to be more accommodating in not trying to cram our army culture down the throat of great young Canadians who may not understand it when they first walk through the door." 

Leslie said natives are "natural soldiers" who bring to the job a deep understanding of the land, inherent survival skills and incredible self-reliance, patience and persistence. And as the fastest-growing population in Canada -- with a majority under 25 years old -- he said aboriginals represent a big "potential recruiting pool." 

Aboriginal Master Warrant Officer John Young dreamed of being a soldier from when he was a young boy living on Manitoulin Island. He signed up at 17, and with 33 years in the military under his belt he now spends his days criss-crossing the country encouraging others to follow his dream. 

As Leslie's aboriginal adviser, his job is to establish and nurture mentoring and recruitment programs, recommend policy and help break down barriers. 

Despite a long, proud tradition of natives serving in arms, Young said there are many reasons why the numbers are so sparse now. A strong economy has offered vast career options, many are reluctant to leave tight-knit native communities, and others harbour lingering resentment for past injustices for aboriginal Canadians. 

"Memories do run long, and there are some concerns after the Second World War and the Korean War, the treatment of aboriginal veterans," he said. "There is still some concern about residential schools. All these things you read in the paper that affect the Canadian public affect the aboriginal population." 

But Young hopes a number of youth initiatives, an aboriginal entry college program and a welcoming attitude toward braids, sweetgrass and pow wows will help promote the CF as a viable career path. He has no regrets about his choice, looking back to adventure and travel to every corner of the country and spots around the globe. 

"It's been a really great lifestyle that has offered me sights and scenes I would have never seen if I'd been a hard rock miner in northern Ontario," he said. 

--- 

Current representation of designated group members in CF regular force and primary reserve: 

Women: 15.1% 

Five-year goal: 19.5% 

Visible Minorities 2.7% 

Five-year goal: 9.1% 

Aboriginal people 1.5% 

Five-year goal: 2.8%


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## RTaylor (7 May 2008)

And again, striving to recruit minorities always leads to inequality. Apply the budget, recruiters and so forth to low income areas, then they'll see a boost in minorities overall as well as white folk. Their current advertising campaigns suck so much ass it makes me cry.

Need to show some black folk in positions of authority commanding around others, some women in combat...but alas they regurgutate the same crap. 

Their commercials should have the slogan "People helping people, we're the get along gang!" Not bad commercials but not really grabbing people hook, line and sinker.


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## daftandbarmy (7 May 2008)

Glass half full.... they aren't as bad as these, are they?

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/08/the-worst-milit.html


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## tabernac (7 May 2008)

Can't please everyone. IMO, the commercials are better then the old "ours is a learning experience" spots. But even those aren't too bad.


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## Greymatters (7 May 2008)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Despite Canadian Forces ad campaigns targeting women, aboriginals and visible minorities, recruitment numbers remain stubbornly low



Add on top of that that the applicants have to have no criminal record, be financially stable, and preferably have a university degree, have an aptitude for military life, PLUS a will to fight overseas, well, that slims down the talent pool just a bit.  There's nothing like creating your own skills shortage by expecting all your candidates to be overqualified...


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## aesop081 (8 May 2008)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Add on top of that that the applicants have to have no criminal record, be financially stable,



I would rather be short-staffed than having people with criminal backgrounds or financial burdens on my hands. I have enough to do WRT to soldier's administration as it is, i dont need to invite more issues.


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## benny88 (8 May 2008)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Add on top of that that the applicants have to have* no criminal record, be financially stable, and preferably have a university degree, have an aptitude for military life, PLUS a will to fight overseas*, well, that slims down the talent pool just a bit.  There's nothing like creating your own skills shortage by expecting all your candidates to be overqualified...



Which of those qualities would you consider unnecessary?


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## Greymatters (8 May 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Which of those qualities would you consider unnecessary?



Aptitude for military life and willingness to fight are the most important, IMO, and should not settle for this.  Financially capable would be nice to have although this can be corrected with teaching sound financial advice (and not the lame 'buy RRSP' stuff they were teaching for decades, I mean actual sound spending habits).  Having a criminal record should be treated on a case-by case basis as some crimes do not neccesarily mean a person is a career criminal or guarantee they will commit crimes again.  Finally, you need smarts to handle the equipment and technology, but not neccesarily a university degree to do well.


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## benny88 (9 May 2008)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Aptitude for military life and willingness to fight are the most important, IMO, and should not settle for this.  Financially capable would be nice to have although this can be corrected with teaching sound financial advice (and not the lame 'buy RRSP' stuff they were teaching for decades, I mean actual sound spending habits).  Having a criminal record should be treated on a case-by case basis as some crimes do not necessarily mean a person is a career criminal or guarantee they will commit crimes again.  Finally, you need smarts to handle the equipment and technology, but not necessarily a university degree to do well.



   Didn't mean to say that degrees are "necessary" at all. Also agreed that being financially stable and criminal records are not black and white and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. But I don't think those criteria make one OVERqualified, which is what I thought you were saying in your original post. I don't think there's anything wrong with pursuing skilled and desirable individuals, and I don't think we should compromise. 
   The right people are out there, we just need to appeal to them. Something aggressive and simple for recruiting could be to put some sort of committee together of RMC students to advise on recruiting. Not a full time thing or anything, maybe a week long focus group. It's a pool of smart, driven individuals who can help target other people of the same age group. For the record, I'm not an RMC OCdt, just think we should take advantage of a group of young people who chose to serve, to figure out how we can approach others.


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## Oblique Order (15 Oct 2008)

So who here would take orders from a "Native"? Who here would follow a "Native" into combat? Who here thinks the army a "meritocracy"? 

I have recieved an offer for Officer training. I have no criminal record, I have no financial difficulties, I have a University Degree, and I can kick some a** to boot. I work in the Oil Patch in a head office. So my question is to ask you on this forum for an Honest No Bull-sh** assessment of how a person of First-Nation decent, that meets all current standards the same as anyone else, would do in today's CF. 

I want to fight for my country. I want to excel as a combat leader. I want to kick the crap out of our enemies. I don't want to be "that Indian guy." I do not want to deal with soldiers not following my orders because they don't like "Indians", and I do not want to be passed over for promotions because whoever is above me is racist. It does happen. Trust me. 

So in as far as that kind of stuff happens to everyone, sure, I know that the world is unfair. But, how hospitable is the CF to First Nations? I would rather not waste my time and dread doing my duty and going into work in the morning because of racist BS. I would hate to be in a 9-year contract to a place where I was discriminated against solely on the basis of skin colour. As a civy I can always quit my job and take an offer to a place where I would recieve better treatment.

Facing a 95% population that may or may not take kindly to my skin colour can be like walking through a minefield where I have a 5% chance of success. Not quite the best odds... Would any of you say that my analogy holds? Or not? Why? 

Your honesty and sincerity are appreciated


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## daftandbarmy (15 Oct 2008)

Honestly and sincerely: Lose the big chip on your shoulder and lighten up a bit. 

Competence and attitude counts for much more than 'ethnic heritage' or gender in just about any military I've been part of. Do a good job, act like a regular human being and people will tend to respect you. 

Now turn that frown upside down and go out there and slay our nation's enemies!  ;D


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Oct 2008)

> Your honesty and sincerity are appreciated



Must be difficult walking around with that chip on your shoulder...

The short answer to your question is:  99.999% of the people you will come across in the CF will judge you on your performance, not your skin colour.  You will be treated no better and no worse than your peers.

Be prepared to work harder than you ever have before in your life; you will be expected to put the Country and the CF in front of your needs, wants and desires.  Think carefully before you sign on that dotted line.


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## Oblique Order (15 Oct 2008)

The chip is gone. I just wanted to get a sense of things. 

Cheers


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Oct 2008)

Hey- Good luck and welcome to Army.ca!


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## chris_log (15 Oct 2008)

Oblique Order said:
			
		

> So who here would take orders from a "Native"? Who here would follow a "Native" into combat? Who here thinks the army a "meritocracy"?
> 
> I have recieved an offer for Officer training. I have no criminal record, I have no financial difficulties, I have a University Degree, and I can kick some a** to boot. I work in the Oil Patch in a head office. So my question is to ask you on this forum for an Honest No Bull-sh** assessment of how a person of First-Nation decent, that meets all current standards the same as anyone else, would do in today's CF.
> 
> ...



I'd say that you shouldn't judge the CF as a whole, nor try to guage if being Native will affect people following your orders by the extremely small percentage of CF members that are members of and post on this website. Think for a second, do you really believe in this day and age you will have people in the CF refuse to follow your orders because you're Native? Do you SERIOUSLY think that is the case?


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## Oblique Order (15 Oct 2008)

But on the other hand: food for thought. There are lies, bloody lies and then statistics; but with enrollment at 95% that does say something about the prevailing winds so to speak. I am not ranting here, just getting dialogue going. And just for the record, I am not implying that the CF has an anti-non-caucasian theme or anything like that. I would like to hear what serving members opinions are. You guys rock   

95% though, that is almost a 1 to 1 correlation... It says something, I just don't know what; and that is what I am trying to figure out before I sign the dotted line.

No. I do not think anyone would refuse to follow orders, not ever. I just think that some people might not like taking orders from an "Indian" and get to talking, and somehow something negative could come of it. Call me paranoid, or call me cautious. Either way, before I jump in a hornets nest, I want to have an idea as to how many hornets are in the nest...


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## chris_log (15 Oct 2008)

Oblique Order said:
			
		

> But on the other hand: food for thought. There are lies, bloody lies and then statistics; but with enrollment at 95% that does say something about the prevailing winds so to speak. I am not ranting here, just getting dialogue going. And just for the record, I am not implying that the CF has an anti-non-caucasian theme or anything like that. I would like to hear what serving members opinions are. You guys rock
> 
> 95% though, that is almost a 1 to 1 correlation... It says something, I just don't know what; and that is what I am trying to figure out before I sign the dotted line.
> 
> No. I do not think anyone would refuse to follow orders, not ever. I just think that some people might not like taking orders from an "Indian" and get to talking, and somehow something negative could come of it. Call me paranoid, or call me cautious. Either way, before I jump in a hornets nest, I want to have an idea as to how many hornets are in the nest...



There could be a multitude of reasons why the CF is still very, for lack of a better term, 'white'. Who cares? We have black, asian, sikh, middle eastern, muslim, jewish, gay and native (to name a few) soldiers. Everyone's green (to use that old cliche).


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## greentoblue (15 Oct 2008)

To Oblique Order (nice handle by the way - sums up some directives I've seen)

Without knowing anything about you but what you've written I can honestly say that in the military today race/gender is not a factor in the day to day life/duties of an officer.  (Maybe at the senior officer level and if I ever get there I'll let you know.) I've often been the only or one of a handful of visible minority officers on courses, deployments/exercises and in my home units and it has never been brought up.  And I have never seen anyone hesitate to take or execute an order from me.  Would it be nicer to have more visible minorities in the military - sure.  But more importantly - we are so busy right now that the only thing that counts is ability.  If you can do the job - whatever trade that is - that is what matters.  Otherwise, if the military was hesitant about giving minorities command appointments or commissions we would not have (from what I have personally seen and based on ethnic origins) Indo fighter and helicopter pilots; Indo artillery officer (Instructor in Gunnery); Korean surface warfare officer; Muslim Arab naval officer; Chinese Master Warrant Officer (Transport); Chinese JTF2 assaulter (commissioned to officer last I heard); Jamacian tank officer; Chilean air traffic control major; Chilean logistics officer;... the list goes on.  By no means am I a "system" guy - you should hear me in the mess sometime but:

In other words- if this is the career you want and you can meet the standards that are set for everybody - nothing is holding you back but yourself.


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## Oblique Order (15 Oct 2008)

Thanks green to blue, I took the handle from Virtues of War, Steven Pressfield. Thanks for the post as well. My family had some valid concerns, thus my post.


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## 2 Cdo (15 Oct 2008)

Oblique Order said:
			
		

> So who here would take orders from a "Native"? Who here would follow a "Native" into combat? Who here thinks the army a "meritocracy"?
> 
> I have recieved an offer for Officer training. I have no criminal record, I have no financial difficulties, I have a University Degree, and I can kick some a** to boot. I work in the Oil Patch in a head office. So my question is to ask you on this forum for an Honest No Bull-sh** assessment of how a person of First-Nation decent, that meets all current standards the same as anyone else, would do in today's CF.
> 
> ...



Hundreds if not thousands of natives have served with distinction and some have risen up the chain of command. None of the natives that I have served with in leadership positions ever had someone "not following orders" because they were native. If you are honest, hard-working, and fair you will have no problems!


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## HollywoodHitman (15 Oct 2008)

In a nutshell - the diversity piece makes for good press and a lofty but admirable goal. Whether we see it or not depends on so many things, many of which were identified in the posts above. Nice to have....Should have...But in reality, many people that come to this country are not culturally conditioned to serve...Others are....Make the military more appealing, we'll attract the RIGHT people, not all people. 

One thing remains that will not go away in the near future....We havent been able to recruit the numbers we need for sustainment let alone growth and not only that, but our training system is being held together with gun tape....Not because we don't have good instructors, but simply not enough of them. Lets look at retention, increasing a person's want and need to stay in the game, and the rest will eventually come. 

We can't train the people we have in a timely manner!


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## gun runner (19 Oct 2008)

You know,  all this has been a really great read.... but what the hell is the Forces coming to? What ever happened to "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT COLOUR WE ARE OUTSIDE, IN HERE WE ALL WEAR GREEN" In other words there is no colour in the Forces. Am I right? If the minorities of this nation CHOSE not to enlist, so what. This isn't the RCMP, we cannot have a Metis soldier weraing a bright red sash over the combat uniform during a manouver that could reveal that soldiers location! Am I right? The same goes for the other visible minorities listed. We're a profession of arms... not a damn melting pot used to make the powers that be feel better about what our image isn't, instead of what it really is..and should be. The uniforms of our Armed Forces serve a purpose, and should not be belittled for the sake of political correctness so that some GD thinktanker can get some sleep at night. Ubique


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## medaid (19 Oct 2008)

Oblique Order, just a nitpicking thing. Quit using the word "Indian" you're NOT "Indian". Members from the country of India or Hindustan are "Indian". They have quite a few  members from their community currently serving within the CF in different capacities; along with members from many other South Asian countries. 

I am a minority serving in the CF in a leadership role. There aren't that many Chinese Officers in the CF, I've looked. I have never had someone disobey or refuse an order from me. Ever. If they do, my ethnicity would be the LAST thing that comes across their mind. It'll probably be "Damn! That guy's an idiot! He's gonna get us all killed! Frack him! We're NOT gonna go that way!"

Or words to that effect.

I've served with members who are Native, and trust me, at least for ME, what they are is of no difference to me.

Can you drill? Can you shoot? Are you willing to play ball when things get tough? If you're yes for all three then you're a brother/sister. If you're not a team player, I could give a less of a frack what you are. You are only useless in my eyes. Hope that helps.


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## twistedcables (24 Oct 2008)

As long as there is a theatre of operations, CF members, ethnic or otherwise, will keep proving their value.


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