# Injury validation



## Evocatus (31 Dec 2012)

Looking for your guidance Ladies & Gents,

1. How might one confirm whether a soldier has been medically released due to a cbt injury and/or awarded a 'wound stripe' [access to information request] ?

2. Is it [presently] an offence in Canada, to claim to have been wounded in battle ?  if so, refs ?

Thx for your insight in advance.


----------



## ModlrMike (31 Dec 2012)

1. Privacy Act request. If I remember correctly, awards after 2001 were converted to the Sacrifice Medal at the member's request. I don't know if the award is published in the Canada Gazette.

2. Yes, if done for some sort of gain. Sect 419 of the CCC refers:



> 419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,
> 
> (a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,
> 
> (b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order,



Some context or back story might help narrow the responses.


----------



## the 48th regulator (1 Jan 2013)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> 1. Privacy Act request. If I remember correctly, awards after 2001 were converted to the Sacrifice Medal at the member's request. I don't know if the award is published in the Canada Gazette.
> 
> 2. Yes, if done for some sort of gain. Sect 419 of the CCC refers:
> 
> Some context or back story might help narrow the responses.


Are you saying, if one is awarded a wound stripe, that he may request to have it converted to a Sacrifice Medal?


----------



## ModlrMike (1 Jan 2013)

A vague memory only. I seem to recall that it would only apply to wound stripes awarded IAW the eligibility criteria of the medal.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (1 Jan 2013)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Are you saying, if one is awarded a wound stripe, that he may request to have it converted to a Sacrifice Medal?



May only be after 2001 also, if I'm reading that ref correctly.


----------



## the 48th regulator (1 Jan 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> May only be after 2001 also, if I'm reading that ref correctly.



Ah, seen.

Once again, my plans of glory have been smashed to smithereens!  :-\


----------



## Shamrock (1 Jan 2013)

> ELIGIBILITY & CRITERIA
> 
> The Medal may be awarded to members of the Canadian Forces, members of an allied force working as an integral part of the Canadian Forces such as exchange personnel, civilian employees of the Government of Canada or Canadian citizens under contract with the Government of Canada, on the condition that they were deployed as part of a military mission under the authority of the Canadian Forces, that have, on or after October 7, 2001, died or been wounded under honourable circumstances as a direct result of hostile action on the condition that the wounds that were sustained required treatment by a physician and the treatment has been documented.
> 
> ...



*Edit:* At link, the medal has been discussed and argued in detail.


----------



## Evocatus (2 Jan 2013)

I have a supposedly former Infanteer, who is claiming that he was medically released from the CF, due to injuries he sustained during a patrol in the sand box. He says that he walked around a corner of a building, and took three[3] AK [7.62] rounds to the chest, at 15 m.  Apparently, he was wearing three[3] ballistic vests at the time, and this is what saved him. He states he sufferred some major internal bruising to the chest, broken ribs, shoulder, clavecal. etc... and was subsequently released as [once healed] he was deemed as never being able to carry a ruck henceforth...

As a now retired [CD2] soldier, my initial reaction to his version of events, was amazement, respect and admiration. 

However comma, I now have reason to question >every< word that has emenated from this individuals mouth; that said I cannot think of anything more disgusting that a situation where a soldeir would fabricate and/or embelish a combat injury.

Hence my wanting to know if it is possible for me to validate, his claims. 

Thank you for the pointers thusfar.


----------



## MikeL (2 Jan 2013)

Evocatus said:
			
		

> Apparently, he was wearing three[3] ballistic vests at the time, and this is what saved him.



Yea... I highly doubt someone would go on patrol wearing three FPVs.


Has this person said what regiment he was in?  What tour he was on?


----------



## ModlrMike (2 Jan 2013)

Evocatus said:
			
		

> I have a supposedly former Infanteer, who is claiming that he was medically released from the CF, due to injuries he sustained during a patrol in the sand box. He says that he walked around a corner of a building, and took three[3] AK [7.62] rounds to the chest, at 15 m.  Apparently, he was wearing three[3] ballistic vests at the time, and this is what saved him. He states he sufferred some major internal bruising to the chest, broken ribs, shoulder, clavecal. etc... and was subsequently released as [once healed] he was deemed as never being able to carry a ruck henceforth...


----------



## Towards_the_gap (2 Jan 2013)

Evocatus said:
			
		

> I have a supposedly former Infanteer, who is claiming that he was medically released from the CF, due to injuries he sustained during a patrol in the sand box. He says that he walked around a corner of a building, and took three[3] AK [7.62] rounds to the chest, at 15 m.  Apparently, he was wearing three[3] ballistic vests at the time, and this is what saved him. He states he sufferred some major internal bruising to the chest, broken ribs, shoulder, clavecal. etc... and was subsequently released as [once healed] he was deemed as never being able to carry a ruck henceforth...



The implication that a Talib would possess marksmanship skills of that calibre should have been enough to set alarm bells ringing.


----------



## CombatDoc (3 Jan 2013)

Evocatus said:
			
		

> Apparently, he was wearing three[3] ballistic vests at the time, and this is what saved him. He states he sufferred some major internal bruising to the chest, broken ribs, shoulder, clavecal. etc... and was subsequently released as [once healed] he was deemed as never being able to carry a ruck henceforth...


Nobody wears 3 ballistic vests, I suggest that it is a physical impossibility due to their bulk alone.  Even if you could gear up like the Michelin Man, how would you fit your tac vest over top of the vests?  If Walter was trying to sound the least bit knowledgeable, he would have said that the rounds struck his ballistic plate and this is what saved him.

Ask him to show you his Sacrifice Medal and SWASM or GCS.  I suspect that you'll be given excuses why he doesn't have them (the CoC didn't process the paperwork/lost in the mail/my dog ate them, etc).


----------



## ModlrMike (3 Jan 2013)

CombatDoc said:
			
		

> Nobody wears 3 ballistic vests, I suggest that it is a physical impossibility due to their bulk alone.  Even if you could gear up like the Michelin Man, how would you fit your tac vest over top of the vests?  If Walter was trying to sound the least bit knowledgeable, he would have said that the rounds struck his ballistic plate and this is what saved him.
> 
> Ask him to show you his Sacrifice Medal and SWASM or GCS.  I suspect that you'll be given excuses why he doesn't have them (the CoC didn't process the paperwork/lost in the mail/my dog ate them, etc).




Exactly. Call him out, in public. Ask him how he could function wearing an additional 120lbs of armour. Of course the science of physics doesn't support his comments either, but they're probably too complex to use to rebut him. Suffice to say that 3 AK rounds at 15m (even protected by 3 vests) would be a significant amount of force.

The math, using K = 1/2mv2

AK47 round = 8gm, muzzle vel = 710 m/s = 2016.4 joule

for comparison = 1kg rock dropped at gravity 9.8 m/s = 48 joule

If you've ever dropped anything on your foot, you knot that even a small object can exert substantial force, and hurt like f***.


Yes, I'm a science geek, and proud of it!


----------



## Shamrock (3 Jan 2013)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Exactly. Call him out, in public. Ask him how he could function wearing an additional 120lbs of armour.


----------



## Pte. Jay (3 Jan 2013)

Shamrock said:
			
		

>



LOOL Oh man :')


----------



## Eye In The Sky (3 Jan 2013)

Friggin astronauts...always goofin' around!


----------

