# Overseas CFBs



## ChaosTheory (11 Aug 2006)

I was just curious if there are still CFBs in Europe?  Outside of Canada (and Afghanistan) are there any CFBs elsewhere in the world?  Thank you.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (11 Aug 2006)

http://www.cfsue.de/Index_e.htm

The CF maintains a presence, although not a "CFB" to my knowledge, buts there lots of folks on here that served there that can correct me, of course.  I can only recite some good stories of "fly-overs" from my betters in the Black-Hat world...

IIRC, the AWCS stuff out of Geilenkirchen is our biggest contribution at this time.  

Lahr and Baden closed some time ago...as I said though, there are lots of mbr's here that served in those places.  My old man was there in the '50s when Lahr was an air base with the ol Canuuk's.


----------



## ChaosTheory (11 Aug 2006)

Ok thank you (updated my profile, finally).

So then it is still possible to work overseas in Europe.


----------



## Hot Lips (11 Aug 2006)

I hope so...that would be a great posting... 

HL


----------



## Kroon78 (11 Aug 2006)

I was under the impression that alot of the old Nato bases in Europe are going to be closing as Europe is creating its own Security Force.


----------



## McG (11 Aug 2006)

For getting sent to Europe, there are exchanges with other NATO militaries & postings in NATO HQ.


----------



## nowhere_man (11 Aug 2006)

Someone who's in the Army told me that a lot of the guys who get sent overseas to Europe are airforce communicators of some type. Do they send a lot of Army guys to Europe anymore?


----------



## buzgo (11 Aug 2006)

There are several Sig Op and technician positions both at the support unit (CFSU) and the AWACS detachment. There are also some other sigs positions in the Netherlands with the NATO alternate HQ.


----------



## dapaterson (11 Aug 2006)

There are defence attaches in many nations; those positions are filled by all environments.  Major allies such as the USA and Britain have a number of military staff posted to our embassies.  MPs provide security at some embassies.

There are still a significant number of opportunities for overseas postings.


----------



## Retired AF Guy (12 Aug 2006)

The NATO HQs throughout Europe have small Canadian contingents in them, with the size varying from HQ to HQ. For instance, when I left Naples (HQ Allied Forces Southern Europe; now called something else) in 2003 there were approximately 25 Canadian military members (not counting dependants of course) serving at the base, plus a couple serving with the US forces. Since then I understand about five position have opened in the CAOC (Combined Air Operations Centre) in Northern Italy. The members were from all three services and consisted of Cpls all the way up to Colonel (CO). Trades included Intel, clerks, supply, Geo, Comms, Naval, Tac Hel pilots, arty, armoured, etc; in other words a wide variety of the CF.


----------



## rogsco (13 Aug 2006)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> I hope so...that would be a great posting...
> 
> HL



The only CFB's are in Canada these days, but as said there are overseas and US postings. CFSU(E) isn't a CFB, but a support establishment taking care of Cdns posted all over the place. 

FYI HL, there is an aeromedical evac nurse exchange posting in the US as well as a couple of positions in Europe. They are popular choices, but if you get your AE wings, you can try for them.


----------



## RatCatcher (17 Aug 2006)

There are no CFBs outside of Canada, but there are many opportunities for CF personnel to be posted OUTCAN. I've known dental, sigs, medical, MP, PAO, LOG... almost every trade and proffesion.  Sometimes you need to ask the career shop, but from my understanding most are offered to those who set the example...


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (18 Aug 2006)

I was thinkin' of CTing to AC Op...they have lots of "out of Canada" posting.

Talking to an WO and Sgt that are 226'ers, they have lots of US/Europe opp's.  Germany (Geilienkershen, spelling) was a big one...226'ers fly on the AWACs and do base-side sp too...

Our G3, an Arty Maj, his last posting was Brussells, he loved it.

There is stuff out there for those that want/deserve/get lucky.   

 ;D


----------



## 211RadOp (18 Aug 2006)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> I was thinkin' of CTing to AC Op...they have lots of "out of Canada" posting.
> 
> Talking to an WO and Sgt that are 226'ers, they have lots of US/Europe opp's.  Germany (Geilienkershen, spelling) was a big one...226'ers fly on the AWACs and do base-side sp too...



Actually 226 is Aerospace Telecommunications and Information Systems Technician (ATIS). Aerospace Control Operator (AC Op) is 169.

However, there are some 226 positions there also.


----------



## Bobbyoreo (18 Aug 2006)

I know there is different postings for different trades available overseas. Mps and clerks get some nice embassy's jobs. Plus NATO main base has alot of CDN's. Germany still has a few people around and so does Holland. Hope this helps


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (18 Aug 2006)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Actually 226 is Aerospace Telecommunications and Information Systems Technician (ATIS). Aerospace Control Operator (AC Op) is 169.
> 
> However, there are some 226 positions there also.



I know that...thats the trade i AM CTing to (ATIS)...my post must have been confusing, sorry, I just couldn't remember the MOSID for AC Op... :blotto:


----------



## 211RadOp (19 Aug 2006)

Hope you get your 226. Maybe we'll see you at the Regiment.


----------



## belka (5 Mar 2010)

Haven't found too much info otherwise on here, but does anyone have a link or info on Geilenkirchen? I'm just doing my screening paperwork and I would like to find something on accommodations, life style, work, etc. Anything would help. Thanks.


----------



## Zoomie (6 Mar 2010)

Canadian detachments also exist at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma.  Also NORAD at Peterson AFB (formally inside the hole at Cheyenne Mountain).


----------



## Armynewsguy (6 Mar 2010)

Here are some Army News stories about Canadians serve in Europe.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/news-nouvelles/story-reportage-eng.asp?id=2275

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/news-nouvelles/story-reportage-eng.asp?id=2285

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/news-nouvelles/story-reportage-eng.asp?id=2521

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/news-nouvelles/story-reportage-eng.asp?id=2242

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/news-nouvelles/story-reportage-eng.asp?id=2061

Armynewsguy


----------



## Wookilar (12 Sep 2011)

Reviving a necro here...

I am looking for info on Naples and Stuttgart. Has anyone been to either, even visiting? 9D and I are trying to do our homework before putting our names in the hat for OUTCAN next year. I would prefer GK, but that position won't be open for 2 more years and for us, next year would work best. My daughter has to switch schools anyway.

Any info is appreciated (especially family related and school related).

Thanks.

Wook


----------



## dapaterson (12 Sep 2011)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Reviving a necro here...
> 
> I am looking for info on Naples and Stuttgart. Has anyone been to either, even visiting? 9D and I are trying to do our homework before putting our names in the hat for OUTCAN next year. I would prefer GK, but that position won't be open for 2 more years and for us, next year would work best. My daughter has to switch schools anyway.
> 
> ...



I don't have a link, but you may want to contact the MFRC in Europe as a start for your questions.


----------



## Gunner98 (12 Sep 2011)

Naples:  http://www.familyforce.ca/sites/Naples/EN/Pages/default.aspx

GK:  http://www.familyforce.ca/sites/Tri-Community/EN/Pages/default.aspx


----------



## captloadie (13 Sep 2011)

If you are looking at Stutgart, you will be working in one of the two commands at the link below. They have a link for newcomers to the base that should give you some info. Although directed to American Personnel, much of the info will be the same for you. The two individuals that were there previously seemed to enjoy it, but there are a few things to be aware of. First, you'll likely be one of only 2 CF families in the area. Your support will all be done from CFSU (E), near GK, so things take a little longer to get done, as alot of things need to be sent back to Canadian sponsor for approval first. But, if you don't need to have a strong Canadian presence around, and can simulate into the American community, you might enjoy it.

http://www.eucom.mil/#

http://www.africom.mil/

I have heard good and bad things about Naples. There used to be a requirement to take a language course before going, but I'm not sure if that is still valid.


----------



## Baz (13 Sep 2011)

Everything you ever wanted to know about the current structure:
http://www.europe.forces.gc.ca/

I say current because there is a NATO Command Structure reorgainzation going on:
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_75773.htm

As well, there are some Canadian initiatives active, which are very much in the early days.

PS: Currently posted to SHAPE (Allied Command Operations), Casteau (just north of Mons), Belgium

PPS: ...and it is quite competitive in many trades to get here...


----------



## vonGarvin (13 Sep 2011)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Reviving a necro here...
> 
> I am looking for info on Naples and Stuttgart. Has anyone been to either, even visiting? 9D and I are trying to do our homework before putting our names in the hat for OUTCAN next year. I would prefer GK, but that position won't be open for 2 more years and for us, next year would work best. My daughter has to switch schools anyway.
> 
> ...



I've been to Stuttgart.  Not posted, though.  It's a nice city in a nice part of Germany.  You aren't too far from anything there: Switzerland, France, etc.  You may notice an abnormally high ratio of Porsches in that city, which isn't a bad thing.

The food is excellent.  The beer is excellent, and you would be amazed at all the things you can do just in the local area.


----------



## Gasplug (13 Sep 2011)

Wooki,

After three years in Naples (2007-2010) and into my second year in Berlin, I guess I can give you a few pointers.  Naples is always dependent on the exact position you get on the Peace Establishment AND on where you live around the NATO Base.  I was lucky; I had 3 good jobs in three years (I know I cannot seem to keep any job!) and I had a very nice place to live.  I really enjoyed the weather (it remains above freezing for the whole year!!!!) but Naples itself is chaotic, dirty and polluted. You need to very careful of where you live but it is a very good springboard to visit Southern Europe. To me, the 42 Canadian families in Naples was a disadvantage; think of it as a small village with about 100 inhabitants! Everybody knows everything about everybody!

Germany (Berlin in my case) is much more "civilized."  I am only one of 5 Canadian service members in the city with the other four at the Embassy. It is much more peaceful as far as social activities are concerned and I do not have to worry about crime as much. Berlin, like Stuttgart, is a large city so there are always some dangers but overall, my wife and I are much more comfortable living in Germany than in Southern Italy.  The only real difficulty for us here is the language, which is harder to learn than Italian. I learned German many, many years ago and I have no problem working in German in my job. My wife does find it a little harder but most Germans will speak some English.

Hope this helps.

Gasplug


----------



## Wookilar (13 Sep 2011)

Thanks everyone for the info.

The website links are great, but the 1st hand knowledge is excellent to have.

We're aware of the crime/pollution levels in Naples, but the job is a perfect fit, where the job in Stuttgart is ... well it would be new territory for me lol.

More info to chew on. Thanks again to everyone.

Wook


----------



## vonGarvin (13 Sep 2011)

And one last shout out for Stuttgart.

The phrase "Ordnung muß sein" is more than a slogan: it's a way of life in Germany.  Yes, there are punks and stuff in the cities, but in general terms, Germany is much more civilised than Italy.  And I think you'd find the Swabians of that part of Germany to much more like Maritimers here in Canada.   Friendly and more relaxed in terms of the "rat race".  Although that of course is a broad generalisation.


----------



## The Bread Guy (13 Sep 2011)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> .... in general terms, Germany is much more civilised than Italy ....


At least more organized....


----------



## dapaterson (13 Sep 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> At least more organized....



... and less bunga-bunga...


----------



## aesop081 (13 Sep 2011)

Most of Italy is not Bad. Sicily on the other hand..............


----------



## vonGarvin (13 Sep 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> At least more organized....



Yes.....organised....that's what I meant


----------



## The Bread Guy (13 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Most of Italy is not Bad. Sicily on the other hand..............


They say as you go north, you run into those who say they're more civilized/organized than those you just left until you reach the far north, where some Italians speak English with German accents.


----------



## Kalatzi (13 Sep 2011)

About two monthe ago there was an article available from Agence France Press. I posted the article and a mod deleted it as a duplicated threadThat I can no longer find, That teh CF was indeed considering get back into the overseas base game. 

Concept was similar to Camp Mirage, prepositioned staging areas for heavy equipment and the like. Cant recall all the areas, the one that did stand out though was Korea. I found it kinda odd, especially since we are not part of SEATO. 

Not a peep in the MSM though.


----------



## aesop081 (13 Sep 2011)

Kalatzi said:
			
		

> especially since we are not part of SEATO.



So what ? *Nobody* is part of SEATO as that organization was dissolved on 30 June 1977.


----------



## dapaterson (13 Sep 2011)

Kalatzi said:
			
		

> About two monthe ago there was an article available from Agence France Press. I posted the article and a mod deleted it as a duplicated threadThat I can no longer find, That teh CF was indeed considering get back into the overseas base game.
> 
> Concept was similar to Camp Mirage, prepositioned staging areas for heavy equipment and the like. Cant recall all the areas, the one that did stand out though was Korea. I found it kinda odd, especially since we are not part of SEATO.
> 
> Not a peep in the MSM though.



The media did give the concept some coverage.  The concept is not bases (with all the personnel and equipment those entail) but rather limited pre-positions supplies and, more importantly, pre-arranged agreements with foreign countries for basing and staging.

https://www.cirrelt.ca/DocumentsTravail/CIRRELT-2008-34.pdf

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/pal/01605682/2011/00000062/00000004/art00007


----------



## The Bread Guy (13 Sep 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The media did give the concept some coverage.  The concept is not bases (with all the personnel and equipment those entail) but rather limited pre-positions supplies and, more importantly, pre-arranged agreements with foreign countries for basing and staging.
> 
> https://www.cirrelt.ca/DocumentsTravail/CIRRELT-2008-34.pdf
> 
> http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/pal/01605682/2011/00000062/00000004/art00007


With some discussion here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101118.0;all


----------



## AERO2012 (14 Sep 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The media did give the concept some coverage.  The concept is not bases (with all the personnel and equipment those entail) but rather limited pre-positions supplies and, more importantly, pre-arranged agreements with foreign countries for basing and staging.
> 
> https://www.cirrelt.ca/DocumentsTravail/CIRRELT-2008-34.pdf
> 
> http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/pal/01605682/2011/00000062/00000004/art00007




To address these tactical planning/scheduling decision problems, good and robust optimization methods are needed and, preferably, within the framework of the network design and transportation models. A robust optimization tool can provide a complete business solution that manages the CF overseas operations and monitors the technical performances of the entire logistics network (Navy, Army and Air Force). In contrast to the simple approach of decomposing the CF logistics using a conventional planning/scheduling methods (pre-positions supplies, amongs others, as proposed by CIRRELT report), the optimal network design modeling approach should accounts for actual materials flows in the entire CF supply chain, from the basic professional equipment to the overseas operations. Therefore, a global optimum solution for the CF operations could be generated which is different from a local optimum or a feasible solution that is found using simple decision support tools (CIRRELT report). The cost savings could be important since the logistics decisions have a huge impact on the cost of CF overseas operations.


----------



## dapaterson (14 Sep 2011)

I cringe whenever I see "cost savings" and "optimization" in discussions of military logistics.

"Just in time" and "lean" and all the other great corporate buzzwords are fine in many circumstances.  For military logistics, however, margins need to be built in; supplies stockpiled and kept on hand, and inherently, there will be cases of oversupply.  It's a trite saying, but the enemy gets a vote in these matters.  The best analytical model in the world is just that - a model, that may or may not match reality.  And being forced to tell the commander that his plan is unsupportable because his ammunition consumption doesn't match the model...


----------



## Loachman (14 Sep 2011)

AERO2012 said:
			
		

> To address these tactical planning/scheduling decision problems, good and robust optimization methods are needed and, preferably, within the framework of the network design and transportation models. A robust optimization tool can provide a complete business solution that manages the CF overseas operations and monitors the technical performances of the entire logistics network (Navy, Army and Air Force). In contrast to the simple approach of decomposing the CF logistics using a conventional planning/scheduling methods (pre-positions supplies, amongs others, as proposed by CIRRELT report), the optimal network design modeling approach should accounts for actual materials flows in the entire CF supply chain, from the basic professional equipment to the overseas operations. Therefore, a global optimum solution for the CF operations could be generated which is different from a local optimum or a feasible solution that is found using simple decision support tools (CIRRELT report). The cost savings could be important since the logistics decisions have a huge impact on the cost of CF overseas operations.



I am hoping that you are just a manic super-Dilbert fan and do not really believe that random buzzwords actually communicate anything of value.


----------



## AERO2012 (14 Sep 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I cringe whenever I see "cost savings" and "optimization" in discussions of military logistics.
> 
> "Just in time" and "lean" and all the other great corporate buzzwords are fine in many circumstances.  For military logistics, however, margins need to be built in; supplies stockpiled and kept on hand, and inherently, there will be cases of oversupply.  It's a trite saying, but the enemy gets a vote in these matters.  The best analytical model in the world is just that - a model, that may or may not match reality.  And being forced to tell the commander that his plan is unsupportable because his ammunition consumption doesn't match the model...



I think I deserve these harsh replies, I really neglected to put some context in my previous writing. My post tried to challenge the findings of the Cirrelt report, entitled “_*Canadian Forces Overseas Supply Network: Strategic Need and Design Methodology*_”, which you provided for our info. As you know, the goal of logistics planning is to make planning decisions optimizing the trade-off between economic objectives such as cost minimization and the objective of mission success. To achieve this goal military logistics can not be modeled by a simple approach, as proposed in Cirrelt report. A more integrated and sophisticated optimization models are needed in order to take into account CF features/constraints.

The report claims, “_*Since international needs and Canada's roles have significantly evolved during the last decades, and given that supply network efficiency and robustness are critical factors for mission's success, the reengineering of the CF supply network to incorporate permanent international Operations Support Depots (OSD) has become a critical issue. This position paper discusses fundamental factors that may affect Canada's role fulfillment, establishes supply capability needs, and proposes a methodology to design the best overseas supply network for the CF*_”. I believe, with all due respect, that the authors overstated their findings in that regard, given the fact that the study examined a focal supply chain, rather than an entire supply chain of the CF, as a unit of analysis. Furthermore, while mission's success is clearly a construct of central importance in the report, the authors failed to provide solid theoretical and analytical background on the validity of using permanent international Operations Support Depots, let alone its locations. Therefore, it is true, as you suggested, that conventional design and methodology can not be applied to the CF context. I believe that a more comprehensive design methodology of CF overseas supply network should be developed to take into account that military organizations are global in scope and relate to other organizations at numerous levels.


----------



## AERO2012 (14 Sep 2011)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I am hoping that you are just a manic super-Dilbert fan and do not really believe that random buzzwords actually communicate anything of value.



No Sir, I am not a super-Dilbert fan, I am just a scientist with over 20 year experience in the private and public sector.

That being said, special thanks for your reply. There will be no progress if there is no harsh criticism.


----------



## Loachman (14 Sep 2011)

You're welcome.

If something's not written in a recognizable language such as English or French, very few people will read beyond the first sentence.


----------

