# PAT Platoon and Young Family Problems/Questions



## jr2010 (15 Apr 2010)

I am married to a guy going through BMQ right now.  I also live with my mother (can't afford our own place) with our 3 year old, 19 month old and we're pregnant and due in May before he comes home.  They have our marriage certificate, birth certificates for the kids and we have given them EVERYTHING they ask for to prove we pay my mother rent.  Every paper they have ever wanted signed IS signed BY her.  He's still paying quarters and rations.  On top of him receiving about $1350 a month we get little child tax credit which comes to about $250.  I have to pay my mother $600 a month or she threatens to kick us out (never been a great relationship and it IS about money and she's not understanding and VERY selfish).  We also have our own personal bills to pay plus groceries and my husband needs money there for things like glasses and hair cuts, etc.  My mother and her bf eat my groceries even when I buy every couple of days, we have no savings, and I have literally no friends or family support.  How on earth can a family live like this?  What else do I have to do to PROVE that we are a family?  He's lived at the same address as me for the past year and they HAVE all his EI statements, our tax returns from 2008 and 2009, bank statements in both of our names.  We can't prove other than what they ask for and what my mother signs for proof we pay rent.  We have no lease or mortgage.  How am I supposed to pay all our bills on that much pay?  We were told for him to show up with a note signed by her stating how much we pay and signed, then they wanted receipts and a lease signed between us and her, now they want another paper signed and MORE receipts.  I'm 8 1/2 months pregnant and I am having contractions every hour and I don't think I can take much more stress.  My kids need to eat and I have bills I have to pay.  HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?  Anyone have any information or advice?  I'm going to lose my mind!


----------



## vonGarvin (15 Apr 2010)

I'm afraid that not much can be done at your end (for now).  Your husband MUST inform his chain of command of the situation at home (eg: your situation).  Until he is trades qualified, I'm not even sure if they can move you to be with him.  

In the end, it's up to him to talk with his instructors, etc, about the situation.


----------



## PMedMoe (15 Apr 2010)

The CF should be providing him with glasses.


----------



## armyvern (15 Apr 2010)

jr2010 said:
			
		

> My kids need to eat and I have bills I have to pay.  HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?  Anyone have any information or advice?  I'm going to lose my mind!



I really do feel for you and your situation. 

That's why I always recommend this advice to my own kids: Do NOT have children until you can afford them.

Tell your husband to ask for an appt with the CO if he has already handed in his paperwork to the OR and yet no action has yet been taken. It will be backdated when it does eventually get input (well, for the months he provided receipts for anyway).

Please though, don't blame the CF for "doing this to you". How did you feed/support your kids prior to him joining?


----------



## armyvern (15 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> The CF should be providing him with glasses.



100% true. I totally missed that line in her post.


----------



## DavieRocket77 (15 Apr 2010)

$1350 a month? Is that all you get as a recruit? I was under the impression that you start at over 30k a year


----------



## dangerboy (15 Apr 2010)

DavieRocket77 said:
			
		

> $1350 a month? Is that all you get as a recruit? I was under the impression that you start at over 30k a year



Here is the link to the pay guides dated Apr 08 http://www.forces.ca/html/payscales_en.aspx and you see according to the table a recruit makes $31,488.


----------



## CallOfDuty (15 Apr 2010)

...I don't know..  Sounds a little strange.  When I wen't to St. Jean in '06, they were very administratively focused on us new recruits, there was no way to have your pay screwed up.  If, you had the right documents, and signed the right things.   Although I do remember some guys who were so dumb, they could barely follow any instructions let alone sign their signature in the right place lol.
   I took a pay-cut to join up, but when I didn't have to pay r&q, plus we got the separation pay, it was quite manageable.  ( mortgage, plus kids)

   I hope it works out for you....
COD


----------



## Eye In The Sky (15 Apr 2010)

The best thing your husband can do is tell his Section Commander he wishes to speak to the Platoon Warrant Officer.  He should immediately tell his Section Commander what is going on, and how it is affecting his family, i.e. you.

The recruit school, CFLRS sees literally hundreds of new recruits weekly usually.  It is a very busy place and there are alot od administrative issues that get dealt with.  There is also not an overly huge admin staff there.  Not that is an excuse for what is happening, just pointing out that they are like alot of units these days...somewhat understaffed.

Also, the instructor staff staff like is (it was when I was an instructor there) understaffed as well, so that means less instructors to look after the same, if not more, recruits than before.  Each instructor only has so many working hours a day.  Again, not excuses, just some info.

Your husband needs to inform his Section Commander immediately of what is going on.  The Section Commander will then take the appropriate action, which, if it was me, would be a quick stroll down to the Orderly Room to make an enquiry as to what is going on with Pte Bloggins, the R & Q situation, seperation allowance, etc and letting them know the basics of Pte Bloggins situation so they know it is more than just a routine case.  If that didn't start some movement, then the Warrant Officer would become involved and work his/her magic...which there are a few options for.

I will say this...it is usually looked at alittle closer when someone is "living at home" and claiming they are paying $$ to their parents.  It is usually clear cut when there is no...personal relationship...between the tenant and landlord.  I know of 1 good friend of mine who went thru something similar when he was at CFSCE a few years ago who moved his family home to Cape Breton while he did his POET crse and had some trouble proving they were living in the basement apartment of his in-laws house, only because it didn't have its own Postal Code.  

There is only 1 person in your family who can get this fixed, and that is your husband thru his chain of command.  Remind him not to go about it all huffy and puffy or he might not get the results he is looking for.  Calm cool and with the facts only will work best with his Chain of Command.  

 :2c:


----------



## GAP (15 Apr 2010)

Eye In The Sky, sounds like excellent advice..., except we are all forgetting one little detail.

Once you are in and exposed to various and sundry admin details, staff, etc., and have a sense of what you might be entitled to a confidence builds up....not so new recruits....

up to this point most take everything as gospel, because that mindset it required to get through BMQ and the huge changes in information and lifestyle everything requires....

Are you going "Rock the Boat" at this point.....a lot of guys/gals without the confidence of previous exposure gives them....just won't. They won't think they can take a problem to their staff/WO, etc. and get something solved, usually until everything blows up and they MUST deal with it or end up VR'ing...


----------



## jr2010 (15 Apr 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> That's why I always recommend this advice to my own kids: Do NOT have children until you can afford them.
> 
> Please though, don't blame the CF for "doing this to you". How did you feed/support your kids prior to him joining?



This is an entirely personal question but if you really need to know, but after I went back to work at my factory job making $40 000 a year from Maternity Leave with my daughter, two weeks in I was laid off.  Since I used up all the money I got paid for one year with my being at home with my daughter I didn't get anything again.  Two weeks after that my husband was laid off.  We had just moved from a 1 bed apt to a 2 bed and he went to find another job and I couldn't find a job because I just found out we were pregnant again and everywhere was starting to lay off so I couldn't get a job.  It also made no sense to work for $10 a hour full time and pay day care $300 out of a $400 check and make about $60 a week when I could give up the $60 and stay home.

My husband worked off and on in construction during summer and winter weather (got laid off in the winter) and there aren't too many high paying jobs around here.   At 36 weeks my Father died at the age of 54 from Hepatitis C (another great memory from my childhood was watching him...this was the result).  My husband was on EI and looking for a job and working the odd temp job and never got in enough hours for the year (2009) after our son was born, and we couldn't make ends meet in our $1000/month + utilities (that's cheap for rentals where we live) so we moved in with my Mother even though we knew she'd make us pay half her re.  My Paternal Grandfather passed away on Mar 16, 2009 and my Paternal Grandmother passed away on Aug 14, 2009 (two weeks before my Father's 1st year death anniversary).  The only methods of birth control open to me were hormonal and the last time I was on birth control I had some bad side effects, so I couldn't take it (ie: the pill, deprovera, etc).  On my son's 1st birthday even after using condoms we found out we were expecting again - NOT my happiest moment as I had just lost 3 people in the past year and I gained a bit of weight from dealing with it.  Then on my daughter's birthday in Oct I lost my Great Aunt who I was very close to as a child.  

My husband applied to the Army last June and kept being pushed back and back due to his high blood pressure and even the doctor felt exercise would fix it.  So he exercised and fixed it.  He finally got told just after Christmas he'll be leaving in the New Year.  

The last 3 months have been a struggle living on $250 because we fought with my mother over it.  I have no other family at all.  I could go on all day what happened to me as a child, but it's not any one's business and I'm trying to move on past it and when my Father died I struggled with a lot of stuff.  

So now here I sit, waiting for all the papers they keep asking for to 'finally' go through, 8 months pregnant, looking forward to hiring people to watch my kids because my mother is 'supportive' to me and looking forward to 3 days off.  I wanted to have a home birth, but because she won't stop smoking in the house the midwives won't come.  So I get to go to the hospital, leave my kids with strangers that are approved with home daycares and licensed to have a baby by myself while he stays there.  

Although you can tell your kids what you do say, not all of us HAVE parents like you.  Don't judge me or tell me how I should be (at 28) when I have had no parents like you what so ever.  I have done everything on my own since I can remember and I moved out at 17 and have been with my then bf, now husband ever since.  I think I'm doing pretty good for starting out so crappy.

Yes he only gets paid that much and yes I know they back date it, IF they accept what they wanted us to sign this time.  In the mean time I have to find  some things my kids need, a couple of things for the baby because all my stuff is in storage, and I still need to find a few things for myself that I obviously can't live without (feminine things) for after the baby is born.  

Thank you to all the others that just gave their opinion freely and nicely and were pretty supportive.  It's quite depressing having to go through the history of the past 4 years of my life.  Birth is supposed to be exciting and a happy time for the family, in my family it means a lot less to most and no room for feelings.  

 Not everyone is loved and not everyone is wanted and we're nothing but an obligation.  Thank God it's almost over is all I can seriously think of.

And if you notice I didn't blame them for doing this to me.  I can agree that we got here on our own merit and a lot of REALLY bad things that happened to us.  When I asked that question I was referring HOW they can do that to a family after we have given them EVERYTHING they keep asking for and they just want more of the same thing because I'm seriously getting stressed out financially and I'm NOT super woman.  I wish I was some days.


----------



## GAP (15 Apr 2010)

And you'll get through this too.... ;D

We used to look back and wonder how we did it, but we did what with 6 kids and $5-600 every two weeks...so this too shall pass, not without it's muss and fuss though...

Good Luck


----------



## Eye In The Sky (15 Apr 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> Eye In The Sky, sounds like excellent advice..., except we are all forgetting one little detail.
> 
> Once you are in and exposed to various and sundry admin details, staff, etc., and have a sense of what you might be entitled to a confidence builds up....not so new recruits....
> 
> ...



Agreed, which is why I suggested he request to see his Platoon WO (usually the Crse I/C at CFLRS, a Crse O will or [or was when I was staff there several years ago now] the Crse O for several Crse's due to staff shortages) and info his Sect Cmdr the details of his situation.

Any MCpl or Snr NCO worth his/her rations is going to action this one ASAP if the info we've been presented are accurate.  

I think you'd agree the Sgt or WO making an appearance at the Student Orderly Room with a few questions and a "can you speed this one up for me" to his/her POC at the OR is a reasonable COA for resolution.  I have to believe in the NCO/WO net as to the 1st COA having used it myself many times for subordinates of mine back when I was allowed to have some  :blotto:.

I will say this...CFLRS is not the best when it comes to this stuff.  I don't agree with how business is done up there WRT several issues, Recruit Admin being one of them.


----------



## blacktriangle (15 Apr 2010)

DavieRocket77 said:
			
		

> $1350 a month? Is that all you get as a recruit? I was under the impression that you start at over 30k a year



As dangerboy said, you make over 30k a year...but you still get taxed, various deductions etc, and rations and quarters taken off your pay. For a single guy with no dependents that amount a month sounds about right for new guys in Quebec. 

If you are single, and good with your money, you can rack up a good savings in short order.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (15 Apr 2010)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Agreed, which is why I suggested he request to see his Platoon WO (usually the Crse I/C at CFLRS, a Crse O will or [or was when I was staff there several years ago now] the Crse O for several Crse's due to staff shortages) and info his Sect Cmdr the details of his situation.
> 
> Any MCpl or Snr NCO worth his/her rations is going to action this one ASAP if the info we've been presented are accurate.
> 
> ...



EITS: I suggest you talk in "real people" talk to this person.  She is not in the military and you just threw about half a dozen acronyms her way!!  It's already confusing enough to try and understand what's going on and we (military folks) are often guilty of forgetting that others don't know all of our jargon!


----------



## armyvern (15 Apr 2010)

jr2010 said:
			
		

> This is an entirely personal question but if you really need to know, ...



Look, I realize that your horomones are all wacky and stuff right now ...

But, I didn't ask you *ANY* question. If I did, I missed it. Nor did I infer that I wanted "to know" anything about the details.

As a matter of fact, the one bit of my post that you didn't quote was the bit where I said, "I really do feel for you" that preceeded the part you did choose to quote. Perhaps you thought that I was just kidding? Relax ... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it is just your horomones speaking.

If I really didn't give two shits about your situation, I wouldn't have told you to tell your old man to SPEAK to someone about the situation now would I?


----------



## Loachman (15 Apr 2010)

He is in St Jean, or Borden?


----------



## jr2010 (15 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> EITS: I suggest you talk in "real people" talk to this person.  She is not in the military and you just threw about half a dozen acronyms her way!!  It's already confusing enough to try and understand what's going on and we (military folks) are often guilty of forgetting that others don't know all of our jargon!



LOL Thanks for the heads up to them and me.  I do understand what some meanings are but not all.  My husband will be very happy to have this information because I will be very HAPPY to have it and tell him   Thanks so much for everyone's help.  This is MORE information I have gotten on here than anywhere and I'm less hormonal now.  Lack of sleep and 2 kids and a pregnancy can do that   TY again!!!


----------



## GAP (15 Apr 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> He is in St Jean, or Borden?



jr2010 you didn't answer the question...


----------



## jr2010 (15 Apr 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> jr2010 you didn't answer the question...



Sorry he is in St. Jean.


----------



## newmet (16 Apr 2010)

jr2010, you have gotten some good advice here and I fully recommend you let your husband know what has been said here.  His only real option is to speak to his chain of command.  I know someone mentioned the fear of rocking the boat and I know that is a concern.  On course the best person to be is the grey man.  However, with two kids at home and another on the way and the financials not coming in that should be, your husband can't be a grey man.  He can request assistance and when it is sorted out then he can be returned to grey man status.  The staffs doesn't hold things like this against people, your husband just wants to make sure his family is proved what it is due while he is busy with basic.  He should mention this before the field weeks though as it will be almost impossible for his staff to deal with this from the field.  
As for you and what you can do... Do you live near a military base?  If so, contact the MFRC, Military Family Resource Center, they can assist you.  I am not sure what you qualify for as the spouse of a new recruit but they have a list of names of authorized babysitters and other resources.  
Best of luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (16 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> EITS: I suggest you talk in "real people" talk to this person.  She is not in the military and you just threw about half a dozen acronyms her way!!  It's already confusing enough to try and understand what's going on and we (military folks) are often guilty of forgetting that others don't know all of our jargon!



*seen*...and...good point.


----------



## 421_434_226 (16 Apr 2010)

Good point on the MFRC, we sometimes forget just how helpful they can be with any luck jr2010 is close enough to a base to receive some assistance if nothing else they can usually provide someone to listen.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

Personally, I would avoid the MFRC like the plague.  They are a bunch of incompetents who know nothing about what to do.  Stick to the chain of command and 
firebomb the closest MFRC to your house *NOW*  before they breed.  

Remember Rule 1: Cardio.  


(Though I jest about firebombing the MFRC, I am *NOT* joking about avoiding them.  And the system is incompetent.  



Want supporting evidence?  I deployed to Afghanistan as part of a unit out of Petawawa.  I was there on IR.  Wife and kids were in NB.

Around Christmas, the MFRC mailed (via Canada post, not by email to some weird @hotmail account) an invite to my wife to come to the MFRC to meet the PM and
get a free tree.  One small problem, I don't think that the MFRC didn't understand that there are a bunch of kilometres between Enniskillen, NB and Petawawa, ON.


There's more.  But in the end, get in touch with someone from the MILITARY and tell the MFRC to pound salt.


----------



## PMedMoe (16 Apr 2010)

I had the same issue when hubby was off on Op Pandemonium.  They left a message for me on the phone at home, in Kingston.  Of course, I was in Ottawa and rarely going back on weekends.   :

Hubby and I always fill out the MFRC form with: DO NOT CALL SPOUSE!


----------



## Bzzliteyr (16 Apr 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Personally, I would avoid the MFRC like the plague.  They are a bunch of incompetents who know nothing about what to do.  Stick to the chain of command and
> firebomb the closest MFRC to your house *NOW*  before they breed.
> 
> Remember Rule 1: Cardio.
> ...



I third that motion.  I was IR in Quebec for my tour in Afghanistan, my "wife" in Oromocto and a dying father in Montreal.  Let me just say the system failed me once my father took a turn for the worse.. and I had to be repatriated.. several days later and he died when I landed in Toronto (after the word got passed from Montreal to Val, to the regt, to Afghanistan, to the base, to the fob, then to me.

I was not happy.  But when shi* hits the fan, they are better than nothing in the event of babysitting and stuff (I am assuming, never having had to use it)


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I was not happy.  But when shi* hits the fan, *they are better than nothing in the event of babysitting and stuff* (I am assuming, never having had to use it)


Wrong.  They are worse than nothing.  And I don't mind saying so.


----------



## newmet (16 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I third that motion.  I was IR in Quebec for my tour in Afghanistan, my "wife" in Oromocto and a dying father in Montreal.  Let me just say the system failed me once my father took a turn for the worse.. and I had to be repatriated.. several days later and he died when I landed in Toronto (after the word got passed from Montreal to Val, to the regt, to Afghanistan, to the base, to the fob, then to me.
> 
> I was not happy.  But when shi* hits the fan, they are better than nothing in the event of babysitting and stuff (I am assuming, never having had to use it)



I am sorry about the loss of your father and that you weren't able to get home to him in time.  In reality though, did the MFRC have anything to do with your return status and getting you home?  That is a chain of command failure, and military system failure unfortunately.

Technoviking:  Wow, do you ever have some anger towards the MFRC.  The MFRC has it's own purpose and isn't perfect, what in the military is?  As a military wife though it is sometimes nice to know that there is a little place where the spouse can go with problems that won't wreck your spouses career and helps you feel as though you are able to do something.  

I am not a card carrying MFRC supporter, when my hubby was deployed I didn't even bother dealing with them, after the first tour, however, they do have babysitting numbers and services available and seem good, if you are around them and able to go to them or contact them.  Also, they can provide financial support in way of free babysitting, etc.  These programs may be good for jr2010 at this time, let her have her own experiences with them before you scare her away.  I know they are trying to improve the system, maybe they will soon.


----------



## PMedMoe (16 Apr 2010)

newmet, I will agree that the MFRC may offer good services to spouses and dependents, however, both my spouse and I are military with no children at home and it drives me nuts to have to clear in/clear out through MFRC or have them sign off on my DAG sheet when I have no use for them at all.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (16 Apr 2010)

newmet,

There are many more details but it was a failure in the process of how they pass info on.. the information might have gotten to me faster if they had a better way to communicate with the boys and girls in the sandbox.

Anyhow, I don't have a hatred like Technoviking though.. he's a little out there.. makes me want to gag actually.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

Yes, I have anger for the MFRC, not because they are imperfect as an organisation, but because they are incompetent as an organisation.  Utterly useless, IMHO.


This is how I see how useless they are:








FYI, I have complained to the Petawawa MFRC wrt what I felt was crass and incompetent boobery in sending an invite to Enniskillen, NB to attend something in Petawawa, ON.  FYI, my wife thought nothing of checking the address when she told my kids that they were going to meet the PM, CDS, etc.  Then when checking the times, etc, she realised the error, felt like shit and had to apologise for the kids.  And I was overseas in harm's way.  And and and.  Just one more pile of shit she didn't need to deal with.

In dealing with rear parties, however, you know, the military dudes who remain back to help out, no complaints whatsoever from her or me.  Not only did they come and shover out the driveway for her, but brought her licorice as well, when she jokingly asked for some.  


EDIT TO ADD: MFRC (Petawawa) has yet to respond to my complaint, some 12 months after the fact (I got back last April, eg: one year ago about today, when my wife info'd me about their boobery.  I complained both in person and in writing.)


For Buzz:


----------



## newmet (16 Apr 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> newmet, I will agree that the MFRC may offer good services to spouses and dependents, however, both my spouse and I are military with no children at home and it drives me nuts to have to clear in/clear out through MFRC or have them sign off on my DAG sheet when I have no use for them at all.



Hey PMedMoe;  I know your frustration.  However, when I moved here on IR before the family got posted here I didn't have to sign into the MFRC, it was optional.  I still haven't cleared into the MFRC, hubby did since he moved here with the kidlets.  The DAG was a pain as well here, I leave in less than a week to become part of the frozen chosen but I must admit I had a little laugh when I signed up to have my hubby contacted while I am away again   I have noticed a difference though, when hubby would get deployed I heard from the MFRC once, it was Christmas.  Other than that, 2 deployments, nada, not a call or anything.  So, I boycotted them.  However, I have been away 3 times so far and each time hubby is called routinely to see if he needs anything, be invited to deployed spouses dinners and to be updated on deals that companies are offering military, etc.  For example, he was just called 2 days ago and I guess VIA is offering 60% discounts to military dependents.  Who knew?    Also, there is a new deployed services section forming in the MFRC's that are staffed by military WO's and such that is supposed to better tie the MFRC to the military chain of command to help families.  

Technoviking:  I like your picture   I am sorry you had such a bad time with them and that someone didn't check things out and maybe get a closer MFRC to contact your wife while you were gone.  Sometimes there isn't much thought in some of our organizations.  As for rear parties?  I found them useless, my hubby was deployed when we had a 3 month old and 18 month old at home, through the winter and I didn't hear from them once either.  Another time he was gone and I was newly pregnant and SO sick from it with a 1 year old, I might as well have fallen off the face of the planet for the assistance rear party, in Petawawa or the MFRC gave me.   Fortunately, I am a pretty independent person and can now laugh about the stupidity of both the MFRC and rear parties but things do need to change and are slowly changing.  I would suggest going in to the MFRC and ask to speak to the manager to pass over your concerns, don't go in angry just let them know and maybe they can look at their SOP's.

Bzzliteyr:  I am sorry that the system failed you, maybe with this new military section for the MFRC others won't have to go through what you did.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

newmet said:
			
		

> Technoviking:  I like your picture   I am sorry you had such a bad time with them and that someone didn't check things out and maybe get a closer MFRC to contact your wife while you were gone.  Sometimes there isn't much thought in some of our organizations.  As for rear parties?  I found them useless, my hubby was deployed when we had a 3 month old and 18 month old at home, through the winter and I didn't hear from them once either.  Another time he was gone and I was newly pregnant and SO sick from it with a 1 year old, I might as well have fallen off the face of the planet for the assistance rear party, in Petawawa or the MFRC gave me.   Fortunately, I am a pretty independent person and can now laugh about the stupidity of both the MFRC and rear parties but things do need to change and are slowly changing.  I would suggest going in to the MFRC and ask to speak to the manager to pass over your concerns, don't go in angry just let them know and maybe they can look at their SOP's.


The MFRC has lost all credibility in my opinion.  It takes ZERO effort to notice that the address you are writing has NB as a province, vice ON.

I understand that rear parties are all different, and I also realise that my experience was much better than yours.  I have had some "not so good" experiences with various rear parties; however, I have had NO good experiences with ANY MFRC.

At my last DAG, I was clear to them that I wanted them to have no contact with my family, and that I was at their desk simply because I was ordered to by my 
chain of command.  Now, they feigned interest in me when I told that that my sister was dying of cancer and that she would probably pass before I returned back
from the tour.  They they asked me questions such as "would you want to return if that happens?"  WTF?  "Uh, no, it's ok.  I have other sisters.  Oh, wait, no I don't
but I DO have other siblings."  Stupid jerks.

In the end, my chain of command was aware of my situation, and I kept them informed as to any changes in the situation.  In the end, my sister passed away  on
29 November 2008, with me at her side (along with the rest of us).  I was there ONLY BECAUSE my chain of command was aware of the ever-changing situation.

For all I know, the MFRC still shows me as being in Kandahar, and with a sister in the hospital.   All this to say, to the original poster of this thread, if you want RESULTS
concerning your situation, then have your husband maintain contact with his chain of command, his "bosses", as it were.  If anyone calls and even mentions MFRC, pretend like you have Tourette's syndrome.  That's my advice, it was free, and worth every penny ;D


----------



## Journeyman (16 Apr 2010)

_Newmet_, you're just going to wear yourself out if you take it upon yourself to apologize individually to all the people who have no use for MFRC. As Robin Williams told Matt Damon in _Good Will Hunting_, "it's not your fault."    

_Technodude_, breathe in the through the nose; out through the mouth. Think calming thoughts...like kittens, or butterflies.....or the soothing campfire crackle of a burning village  ;D


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> _Newmet_, you're just going to wear yourself out if you take it upon yourself to apologize individually to all the people who have no use for MFRC. As Robin Williams told Matt Damon in _Good Will Hunting_, "it's not your fault."
> 
> _Technodude_, breathe in the through the nose; out through the mouth. Think calming thoughts...like kittens, or butterflies.....or the *soothing campfire crackle of a burning village*  ;D




Oh, I'm there!  But I prefer to think of the warm glow (and afterglow) of watching  the effects of the temperature of the sun on Earth:


----------



## newmet (16 Apr 2010)

Technoviking:  Like I have said, I am not a card carrying supporter of the MFRC, I am very sorry about the loss of your sister and I am very glad you were able to get home to be with her.  I fully agree, the chain of command is the best way to go.  My chain of command jumped up and helped me with recent problems and was able to delay my deployment and my CO was very understanding and helpful.  It is always best to keep them informed and the chain is what is going to make things move.  If you read back, you may notice that I said that the MFRC is a good way for spouses, who have no chain of command, to be heard, whether anything is done about it who's to say.  Also, they do have small resources available to local dependents, which jr2010 may be.  She may be able to get support through the MFRC, if there is one close by, who knows until you try it, it was a suggestion for another option to try.  But having been on both sides, the spouse and the military member now deploying, I can say I am very grateful to be one of the ones in green with the chain to support me.    

Thanks Journeyman:    I hate to see people hurting and I guess I am still too nice at this point, you would think basic would have cured me of that   As for calming thoughts, I had a good suggestion from my stress management class that fits...Think of a nice forest, with a calm brook with water moving gently down the brook and then imagine the face of the person you are holding under water  >

Ok, I can't even get through typing a response before someone pops back in with another response   Technoviking, I think you're scaring me  ;D  Try the forest thoughts


----------



## Bzzliteyr (16 Apr 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> At my last DAG, I was clear to them that I wanted them to have no contact with my family, and that I was at their desk simply because I was ordered to by my
> chain of command.



Funny you'd say that.. my wife said the same thing.. if I remember correctly.  The best part was receiving mail at my father's house for HIM from the MFRC after he had passed.. guess the passage of information wasn't done too efficiently.

But I suggest we return to the topic at hand.  How to get jr's family the help they need if they need it.


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

newmet said:
			
		

> Ok, I can't even get through typing a response before someone pops back in with another response   Technoviking, I think you're scaring me  ;D  Try the forest thoughts


You have to learn to type faster ;D

Here, this is my forest:




;D

As for the original poster to this thread.  For immediate assistance, ANYONE BUT the MFRC.  I mean, short of people like Clifford Olson, of course.  But there MUST be
friends or SOMEONE who can help.  Heck, even a woman's shelter, or call the NDP tell them that you feel harassed that the military has drafted your husband away
and now your Card Carrying Conservative Mother won't let you out.  They'll be there faster than you can say "Order!" in the House of commons!  ;D


----------



## newmet (16 Apr 2010)

Oh Technoviking, I can only hope that you are in a trade that allows you to freely express yourself safely  ;D

As for jr2010, I really hope you can get some help and that you husband lets his chain of command know what concerns he has because he can focus better on being there and surviving basic by knowing that you guys are safe and secure.


----------



## Bzzliteyr (16 Apr 2010)

Okay, I am just reading back to see if I could try to figure out how a budget might help and I saw this:

"In the mean time I have to find  some things my kids need, a couple of things for the baby because all my stuff is in storage, and I still need to find a few things for myself that I obviously can't live without (feminine things) for after the baby is born."

Is your stuff in storage because the military put it there?  If so, then your husband chose to put it there, right?  I don't know where you live but I do know that some soldiers have been known to frequent food banks in certain municipalities, maybe that's an option?

The frustration is understandable and I have been down that route, kind of.  When I joined I had my pay frozen for the first few years.. I dated my high school sweetheart and she drew welfare until the province officially recognized us as "common law" and then I had to pay for two of us to survive in Quebec City.  Not the easiest thing to do!


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

newmet said:
			
		

> Oh Technoviking, I can only hope that you are in a trade that allows you to freely express yourself safely  ;D


Yes I am.  They let me shoot people in the face from time to time:






;D


----------



## jr2010 (16 Apr 2010)

To be honest, I tried the shelter for a weekend here around Christmas and seriously, it was even worse.  I had to beep in, beep out, cameras on me 24/7, people asking you and psycho-analyzing you for any fresh 'kill'.  It was seriously a nightmare.  At my Mother's she pretty much leaves me alone unless she wants something like money or for me to clean because her bf is coming over for the weekend....kind of like today.  

Foodbanks in the area...  There are 3 and I have used them a few years ago when money was tight.  They give you food once a month which consists of a bag of non-perishable groceries of things like chickpeas, water chestnuts and other weird things I have yet to even wonder if it's edible.  I have had stuff like cheerios that had glass in it and my 1 year old daughter (at the time) almost ate it.  I stopped going to food banks after that.  

I relayed all this information to my husband and he said he'll go there today and see what he can do.  Yesterday was a very bad day for me and for him I guess because he thought I spent all the money because some people got about 1500 (back pay from March?).  We both figured out that we're NOT getting the separation thing (so we're not considered married or having children) AND they don't think we pay rent.  They have yet to meet my mother.  I've considered kidnapping her and taking her car for a drive to St. Jean and dropping her off so they can see what she's like....but I don't fancy having my baby in jail, so I won't do that.   Most parents don't charge their kids rent, but most parents love their kids and try to support and help them.  I have to take my kids in the bathtub WITH me because she's 'too busy', 'too tired', or 'doesn't feel like it' for watching them for 10 min while I take a shower.  

Anyways onto other things....

Watching you guys rant on about the family support thing was pretty funny.  Technoviking's pictures made me laugh hysterically!  At least I'm getting cheered up a bit  ;D  Thanks a lot.  If anyone has any other advice on what I could do, tell my husband or even post more burning pictures, I'd be totally up for it!!  :nod:


----------



## Bzzliteyr (16 Apr 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Yes I am.  They let me shoot people in the face from time to time:
> ;D



Um, from your desk?  OOh, scary!!

jr2010 - where are you living?


----------



## GAP (16 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr, you might want to take it to PM's for that info....


----------



## jr2010 (16 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> jr2010 - where are you living?



In Ontario, far enough away that it would take about 1/2 the day to drive to St. Jean   I know what places are close enough for support and such.  My husband never left information, but I have ways of obtaining what I need  >


----------



## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2010)

jr2010 said:
			
		

> My husband never left information, but I have ways of obtaining what I need  >


Does this guy work for you?


----------



## jr2010 (16 Apr 2010)

LOL you never know!  I like the expression on his face LOL.  Where on earth are you getting this stuff???


----------



## CountDC (16 Apr 2010)

hmmmmm

Did he declare common law when he joined or did he wait until he arrived at the school?  This should actually be an easy process.  There are 2 forms that should have been completed and placed on his pers file - Common-Law Partnership Application, and Statutory Declaration –Recognition or Re-establishment of a Common-Law Partnership.  Been a long while but I believe at least one of the forms had to be signed by you.  Without these forms the clerks hands are tied as far as getting him seperation allowance or exempt from paying R&Q.  If they are on file along with all the statements you have stated have been provided I fail to understand the hang up.  

Haven't looked but never heard of the requirement to provide a statement from the Landlord, receipts and a lease - used to be the statement was in place of a lease as not everyone has one.  I have rented on a few occasions without a lease which in Halifax at that time made it a month to month rental.

Best bet is for him to have his chain of command run with it as the others have stated.  They should be able to straighten things out in short order. 

Now a suggestion on the home front - your mother sounds a lot like my mother-in-law (except she wanted us to give her money without living with her).  Once the dust has settled and he is getting the proper pay look for some where else to live on a month to month lease.

Due first week May?  My son is due 12 May and looking forward to the 9 months off again, although for some reason D9 thinks I should be working around the house and taking care of the other kids instead of fishing. I figure with a 16 year there I should be able to fish while he takes care of his siblings.  Then again he can't take care of himself so maybe she has a point.

Chin up - there is a light at the end of the tunnel and hopefully it is not car headlights coming at you.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Apr 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> newmet,
> 
> There are many more details but it was a failure in the process of how they pass info on.. the information might have gotten to me faster if they had a better way to communicate with the boys and girls in the sandbox.
> 
> makes me want to gag actually.



Apparently, putting both legs in the air is supposed to quell that, or so I've been told ;D


----------



## jr2010 (16 Apr 2010)

We are legally married.  When he filled out all the paperwork in June 2009 we gave them a copy of the marriage certificate.


----------



## Nauticus (16 Apr 2010)

There's been lots of good input in this thread.

I'm not qualified to give you an answer, but remember, the CF requires specific documentation to do certain things. This is true for everything. So, in your case, if the CF requires a signed lease and you cannot provide one, that may be part of the issue.

Ask your husband to follow his chain of command. From my experience, those at CFLRC St. Jean do what they can to lessen the 'personal family issues' so you can concentrate on BMQ. They did a good job when I did it.


----------



## jr2010 (30 Apr 2010)

Hello, 

My husband graduates end of May/beginning of June.  He gets shipped out to Borden within the day and was told he'll likely be waiting for a few months before his training as a Supply Technician.  I'm just curious when those courses start and how long he may be waiting there.  I have a 3 1/2 year old and 19 month old and I am having another baby at the end of May.  I don't know if we get to go with him but he wants us to even if he can't get a PMQ.  Can he apply and/or get one?  

I have also heard that they will only pay to move you from where you were recruited from to where you are going to be posted to after training.  Is this true?  

Any pointers, tips, answers and or information would be greatly appreciated!  I've never known anyone in the CF and it's like learning a new language!  Thanks to anyone and everyone that can help out!


----------



## ammocat (30 Apr 2010)

Your husband should be able to get a PMQ. When he arrives in Borden he should be posted to PRETC. He should write a memo requesting a PMQ and complete a Request to Vacate Single Quarters. In his memo he must detail his situation, ie children, that you are expecting or have a newborn, etc.

The CF should pay for your move, however there are many factors that effect whether you can move to Borden or not. Our QL-3 students (nor supply cadre) that have been moved to Borden normally have their move processed through R&D, which arranges for the movers to actually move their possessions and pays for the movers. They are not entitled to many of the other benefits, posting allowance, etc. 

After trades training (QL-3) they are posted to their new unit and they are posted again. For this posting they receive all of the benefits and the move is processed through IRP (Brookfiteld Relocation Service).

I do not recommend moving yourself to Borden/Angus/Barrie if you cannot get a PMQ. This causes numerous administrative problems which can be sorted out, but it takes time. Also Base Policy does not allow QL-3 students to live on the economy but it does allow students to live in PMQ's.


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Apr 2010)

To add to ammocat's reply, if you move without authority, the CF will not pay for anything.

I've always understood that whether or not a member can apply for a PMQ depends on the length of their course or duration of stay in Borden.  That being said, as ammocat stated, QL3 students are not allowed to live on the economy (e.g. get their own place).  They either live in quarters or in a PMQ (if they can get one).


----------



## armyvern (30 Apr 2010)

Supply eh??

What he really needs is a job (ie OJT) while he awaits his QL3 start vice stagnating in PRetC.

...

...

...


----------



## jr2010 (30 Apr 2010)

Hello, 

My husband graduates end of May/beginning of June.  He gets shipped out to Borden within the day and was told he'll likely be waiting for a few months before his training as a Supply Technician.  I'm just curious when those courses start and how long he may be waiting there.  I have a 3 1/2 year old and 19 month old and I am having another baby at the end of May.  I don't know if we get to go with him but he wants us to even if he can't get a PMQ.  Can he apply and/or get one?  

I have also heard that they will only pay to move you from where you were recruited from to where you are going to be posted to after training.  Is this true?  

Any pointers, tips, answers and or information would be greatly appreciated!  I've never known anyone in the CF and it's like learning a new language!  Thanks to anyone and everyone that can help out!


----------



## jr2010 (30 Apr 2010)

Just thought I'd add a question as well.  Is it possible for him to take parental leave until his course starts?  Just another avenue maybe of thought.  I have heard that it's "frowned upon".  We want to do everything right but I'm open to any option.  Living with my Mother is driving us all nuts!


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Apr 2010)

How many times are you going to ask......NOW MERGED.

See the link above for advice regarding moves, PMQs, etc.

As far as the parental leave, that would be up to his unit CO.


----------



## jr2010 (2 Jun 2010)

My husband graduates BMQ this week and will be shipped off to Borden and put on a PAT platoon until his training starts (next training course starts on Sept 7th for Supply Techs).  I'm curious if he'll be able to get any kind of leave and if on his first weekend (he arrives on Friday) if he'll be permitted to come home this weekend.

The thing is I just had a new baby by emergency c-section that wasn't planned and living with my Mom and my sister (who just moved in) offer no help at all.  I'm actually supposed to sit in bed for the first two weeks which will not happen given I have two older children and have no help at all.  

I am aware that he could likely get parental leave but we've discussed this and he feels that this wouldn't be such a good idea this soon in the start of a military job.  I agree.  I'm just curious if he'd be able to get a couple of weeks off or anything.  If anyone has any ideas or advice I'd be gratefully thankful!


----------



## GAP (2 Jun 2010)

Far more informative people than me will probably respond, but I wonder why not utilize a month or 6 weeks of Parental Leave if he's only going to be sitting in PAT?....as long as there are no repercussions, I don't see a problem....


----------



## McD (2 Jun 2010)

The paternity leave is there for a reason no? From this post and your other ones, sounds like YOU NEED IT to get your stuff together.


----------



## PMedMoe (2 Jun 2010)

Is there not a period of time that one must serve before entitlement to PAT leave?

He's fairly sure to be able to get weekend leave, annual (depending on how much he has), stats and _maybe_ even some short or special if he lets his supervisor know the situation.


----------



## the 48th regulator (2 Jun 2010)

Are there absolutely no services locally that can help you?  The Hospital, can offer advice on what is available.  Have you contacted the local MFRC where you live?

I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but you have better get used to the military way of life.  Consider your husband's posting as an isolated posting.  Although he may be in the PRTC (Post Recruit Training Center) (They still call it that in Boreden, not PAT, I know semantics, but they are different there.....), and may be sitting around doing nothing for now, a course may be able to be formed based on the amount of other candidates awaiting this course.

You have got to learn to figure out how to use local resources to help you manage you, and your family.  This may be cruel sounding, but realiz, Hubby _and_ you, have just signed up for the military.  And the military will have him posted, or doing things, normal families don't do.  It will now be up to you to mange the home base, and not expect or rely, on what you think should be offered to you. 

Once hubby has done his training, it will be much more easier, for you to establish your family life.  Until then, I suggest you tell your Mummy and Sister to start pitching in.  It will be a hell of a lot easier, than wishing hubby can come and be your white knight to save the day.

Seriously, have  you two given better thought to this whole, him joining the military???

dileas

tess


----------



## meni0n (2 Jun 2010)

He can ask for parental leave. I know a few guys who actually took parental leave before their course started while they were on PAT or PRETC.


----------



## jr2010 (2 Jun 2010)

Trying to get help from my Mom and sister is next to impossible.  The situation is pretty bad and it's only 6 months until he gets posted and we leave.  We have been here for 18 months.  A pretty good example is asking my Mom to watch the older two so I can have a shower every two days and I get told to figure it out for myself.  The local support for families knows the situation and I talk to a person there about once a week.  

I understand the way things work and I also understand that if he is on PAT or whatever you called it that he can get leave for a few weeks IF the family needs him and have been told this by several people in the military from Borden and such.  I was curious HOW he would go about this and HOW long it would take.  

I understand that his job is going to come first.  The big thing for me is that the family support place nearest to us is an hour away and we don't have a car until August.  

My family isn't the close knit loving family that most have.  I wish it were different, but it's not.


----------



## McD (2 Jun 2010)

Not to be rude here but really I think your answers, and results, are within him and his action or inaction. Not an internet forum, just so you can relay it back. 

Your situation isnt the best but not the worse. And no one with a heart would argue you dont need help, but ultimately its down to him at his end. Get him to ask how he can get to his newborn and wife.


----------



## Michael OLeary (2 Jun 2010)

jr2010 said:
			
		

> I was curious HOW he would go about this and HOW long it would take.



The answer to this is: _HE_ asks _HIS_ chain of command.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (2 Jun 2010)

jr2010 said:
			
		

> The thing is I just had a new baby by emergency c-section that wasn't planned and living with my Mom and my sister (who just moved in) offer no help at all.  I'm actually supposed to sit in bed for the first two weeks which will not happen given I have two older children and have no help at all.



Based on the quote above, I'd be asking them to 'move out'.  

Tell your husband the best thing he can do is ask for 5 minutes with his MCpl or Sgt once he gets to Borden to explain the situation.  They will know the best approach to be taken for how things work and the personalities that exist in his soon-to-be chain of command.

With your hands full with 3 kids and some unhelpful family, and him on BMQ and not familiar with the CF policies and such, its kind of overwhelming sometimes.  We could link you to a bunch of regulations and policies but they can be hard to interpret sometimes, even for those of us used to them.

There is nothing wrong with your husband asking his MCpl or Sgt now for some guidance and advice either.   Thats what they are there for.  If they don't know, they might ask the clerks in the Orderly Room for the regs for leave, etc etc.

Hang in there.


----------

