# Conflict in Gaza 2014



## a_majoor (26 Jul 2014)

The Times of Israel site. This has regular updates, so you can scroll down and get a timeline of events as well:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/two-killed-in-fierce-clashes-near-jerusalem-rocket-downed-over-eilat/#liveblog-entry-1035886



> *Israel rejects Kerry ceasefire deal, IDF death toll 35; 6 killed in West Bank*
> 
> Ya’alon warns ground operation may expand; heavy West Bank clashes after Hamas urges Third Intifada; IDF gen. says Hamas morale weakening
> 
> ...


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## a_majoor (29 Jul 2014)

Instapundit passes on a comment from an IDF soldier who describes the situation on the ground in the staging area. Israeli citizens are wildly supportive, no doubt relieved that the rocket attacks and threat of terrorism is being dealt with. There is an interesting comment from Glenn Reynolds at the end of the piece as well: Isreal going over to Russia for support? Given the evident hostility towards Israel in the US Administration and the EU, they might be looking for other partners who carry a big stick:

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/192457



> JULY 28, 2014
> ON THIS POST BY ROGER SIMON, AN INTERESTING COMMENT:
> 
> A person I trust posted the following on a local Jewish e-board in NJ. She advised that it is from an IDF solider presently serving in Gaza:
> ...


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## a_majoor (29 Jul 2014)

Some information about the extensive tunnel network under Gaza:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/07/21/gaza-tunnels-take-idf-by-surprise



> *Gaza Tunnels Take IDF by Surprise*
> 
> For years, Hamas has constructed an "underground Gaza," while investing nothing in the welfare of "upper Gaza."
> 
> ...


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## dimsum (29 Jul 2014)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/post_8056_b_5602701.html

Best comment:   "This article seems to be annoying the fanatics on both sides of the conflict. Which means that it's a well thought out and fair piece."


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## a_majoor (1 Aug 2014)

Crowdfunding an Iron Dome interceptor? What else can you do with crowdsourcing? Another example of social media mobilizing on the side of the Israelis:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/stop-a-rocket



> *Let's stop a rocket and help Israel buy more Iron Dome anti-missiles!*
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada   Community
> So many people around the world are concerned about the terrorist attacks on Israel, especially through rockets fired by Hamas terrorists based in Gaza.
> 
> ...


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## a_majoor (2 Aug 2014)

The purpose of the tunnels revealed:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/08/hamas-planned-big-invasion-and-bombing.html#more



> *Hamas planned a big invasion and bombing and kidnapping terror attack via dozens of tunnels*
> The Hamas tunnels were part of one elaborate attack scheme.
> 
> According to captured Hamas documents, on Rosh Hashanah of this year (starting September 24), up to 200 Hamas gunmen were to pour out of each of the dozens upon dozens of terror tunnels, many of which we now know exit inside or very near to Israeli civilian communities.
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (3 Aug 2014)

The IDF has revised Lt Hadar Goldin's status to KIA.


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## pbi (3 Aug 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/post_8056_b_5602701.html
> 
> Best comment:   "This article seems to be annoying the fanatics on both sides of the conflict. Which means that it's a well thought out and fair piece."



Good article. It's a relief to see an attempt at objectivity amidst the partisan shrieking that's going on. The present discourse in  Canada seems to assume that you have to be either a rabid Zionist settler tool of the banksters  or a crazed anti-Semitic Holocaust denying terrorist-lover...



> Many Israelis seem to have the same tribal mentality that their Palestinian counterparts do. They celebrate the bombing of Gaza the same way many Arabs celebrated 9/11. A UN report recently found that Israeli forces tortured Palestinian children and used them as human shields. They beat up teenagers. They are often reckless with their airstrikes. They have academics who explain how rape may be the only truly effective weapon against their enemy. And many of them callously and publicly revel in the deaths of innocent Palestinian children.
> 
> To be fair, these kinds of things do happen on both sides. They are an inevitable consequence of multiple generations raised to hate the other over the course of 65 plus years. To hold Israel up to a higher standard would mean approaching the Palestinians with the racism of lowered expectations.
> 
> However, if Israel holds itself to a higher standard like it claims -- it needs to do much more to show it isn't the same as the worst of its neighbors.



I agree with this quote, although IMHO having lower expectations of some Palestinians has nothing to do with racism-both Jews and Palestinians are largely Semitic in origin. It's a fairly pragmatic assessment of Hamas and its adherents, not of Palestinians as a group.

It must be impossibly difficult for Israel to balance its right to defend itself against an understandable desire for vengeance, but I think it has very little choice but to do so if it doesn't want to "become what it beholds". Past history (Shatila Camp comes to mind...) show what can happens when Israelis forget the need to strike the balance. 

 I think they come under pressure precisely because we expect and deeply want them to behave differently. We're never really surprised at the behaviour of various other regimes we could think of.

Suggesting that because other Arab-led or Islamic governments have butchered many times more of their own people, that this in some way acts as a justification or mitigation of Israeli actions resulting in disproportionate Palestinian civil casualties, is IMHO a very bad moral argument. I think this author may really be talking more about the varying world reactions, but it might be far too easy to exploit that argument for wrong ends. This is what I call the "But, He Did It Too" argument, usually advanced by bad children.

However, even there I might question his reasoning: as far as I can recall, the world's media, AND various Arab bodies including the Arab League, loudly and vigorously condemned the murderous behaviour of the Syrian government, for weeks and weeks. I don't know what actual effect it ended up having, but it definitely happened.

This, I think, is equally capable of being misinterpreted, despite the author's likely intent:



> When Hamas' missiles head towards Israel, sirens go off, the Iron Dome goes into effect, and civilians are rushed into bomb shelters. When Israeli missiles head towards Gaza, Hamas tells civilians to stay in their homes and face them.



So, because their "government" fails to protect them properly, their casualties somehow become more acceptable or excusable? No. That, IMHO, is an extremely slippery moral slope.

The author also touches on something else that is a bit of an elephant in the room: Israeli Arabs and the supposed demographic "time bomb" of the next few decades:



> ...but if Israel doesn't work harder towards a two-state (maybe three-state, thanks to Hamas) solution, it will eventually have to make that ugly choice between being a Jewish-majority state or a democracy/.



I've read differing projections on this concept of the growth of the Israeli Arab population: they seem to vary from an end state of about 40% of the population of Israel to about 50% or more. In any case, quite a significant figure. One has to wonder how they will process and remember what is going on now, and how it will shape their political behaviour.

Ironic to think that the future of a nation founded by a people who were segregated and discriminated against themselves might be guaranteed by inflicting the same things on others. I hope that there is enough spirit of democracy and respect for human rights in Israeli culture that this won't be the result: it would only serve to guarantee the continuation of the current mess.

In the long run, some kind of a negotiated solution that offers a secure (if divided) existence to Israelis and to Palestinians who want peace seems to be the only useful answer: the IDF can score brilliant tactical or operational victories that last for a while, but the strategic situation and its underlying political/cultural/religious tensions never seems to go away.


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## Brad Sallows (7 Aug 2014)

>So, because their "government" fails to protect them properly, their casualties somehow become more acceptable or excusable? No. That, IMHO, is an extremely slippery moral slope.

But that's not what's happening, is it?  Or have the Israelis resorted to carpet bombing?  AIUI the Israelis attack military targets which have been sited in violation of LOAC to increase collateral damage.  The "government" does not fail to protect (passive), it places people and facilities in harm's way (active).

What is the magic number, N, of non-combatants who can be placed to protect a rocket launcher such that the target of the rocket attack has no recourse under law but to accept casualties?


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## a_majoor (11 Aug 2014)

More on the tunnel network:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/08/israel-shocked-by-scope-of-hamas-tunnels-in-gaza-but-locating-them-still-a-challenge/



> *Israel shocked by scope of Hamas tunnels in Gaza, but locating them still a challenge*
> 
> Israelis have been aghast at the scope of the Trojan-horse-like network of tunnels built by the hardline Islamists in the Gaza Strip and revealed to their horrified gaze during Operatio Protective Edge.
> 
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (11 Aug 2014)

I find the comments about finding the tunnels odd, Geophysics should be able to locate these tunnels as we use these techniques to find ore bodies and other underground structures. Israel is a hightech country, but I suspect they don't have much experience in exploration technology.


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## a_majoor (11 Aug 2014)

Since the tunnels are so much smaller than ore bodies, I suspect that the means to locate them with enough definition to attack and destroy them is lacking.


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## GAP (11 Aug 2014)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I find the comments about finding the tunnels odd, Geophysics should be able to locate these tunnels as we use these techniques to find ore bodies and other underground structures. Israel is a hightech country, but I suspect they don't have much experience in exploration technology.



With the satellite radar technology capable of finding buried former cities/old streambeds/etc, why can it not be used to detect voids in the ground depicting tunnels? 
 :dunno:


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Aug 2014)

The Israelis need to do what any person has to do when confronted with vermin digging into your foundation.

You build a rat wall, and while they're at it, they could load said wall with sensors that would indicate any vibration on trying to break through it.

Mines, buried deep, could also provide a surprise for those that would like to tunnel. That would indicate a tunnel that they could follow back to the school, mosque, hospital or whatever building full of innocents that these fanatics are using to provide them protection and human shields.

Just spitballin'.


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## Colin Parkinson (11 Aug 2014)

GAP said:
			
		

> With the satellite radar technology capable of finding buried former cities/old streambeds/etc, why can it not be used to detect voids in the ground depicting tunnels?
> :dunno:



Generally once a underground system collapses it produces a copycat indentation on the surface (depth and material dependent). Since it's soft sand, soil and clays they are digging through a collasped tunnel will eventually show a "shadow" on the surface, much like old graves.

Here is a model of an ore body imaged through geophysics and backed up by drilling 






seems it's on peoples minds
http://www.agu.org/meetings/sm06/sm06-sessions/sm06_NS21A.html

http://www.geoconsol.com/publications/covert_border_tunnel_detection.pdf


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## a_majoor (12 Aug 2014)

As if we need any reminders, but I think we all know that there is a very large crowd of "denialists" in our media and academia (and in politics, but maybe not so vocal) who actively turn their heads away from any evidence of this sort:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/what-would-hamas-do-if-it-could-do-whatever-it-wanted/375545/?single_page=true



> *What Would Hamas Do If It Could Do Whatever It Wanted?*
> 
> Understanding what the Muslim Brotherhood's Gaza branch wants by studying its theology, strategy, and history
> 
> ...


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## a_majoor (27 Aug 2014)

The "narrative" and how it skews reporting about the Arab Israeli conflict in general, from a former AP reporter and editor (long article Part 1):

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/183033/israel-insider-guide



> *An Insider’s Guide to the Most Important Story on Earth*
> 
> A former AP correspondent explains how and why reporters get Israel so wrong, and why it matters
> 
> ...


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## a_majoor (27 Aug 2014)

Part 2"



> Israeli actions are analyzed and criticized, and every flaw in Israeli society is aggressively reported. In one seven-week period, from Nov. 8 to Dec. 16, 2011, I decided to count the stories coming out of our bureau on the various moral failings of Israeli society—proposed legislation meant to suppress the media, the rising influence of Orthodox Jews, unauthorized settlement outposts, gender segregation, and so forth. I counted 27 separate articles, an average of a story every two days. In a very conservative estimate, this seven-week tally was higher than the total number of significantly critical stories about Palestinian government and society, including the totalitarian Islamists of Hamas, that our bureau had published in the preceding three years.
> 
> The Hamas charter, for example, calls not just for Israel’s destruction but for the murder of Jews and blames Jews for engineering the French and Russian revolutions and both world wars; the charter was never mentioned in print when I was at the AP, though Hamas won a Palestinian national election and had become one of the region’s most important players. To draw the link with this summer’s events: An observer might think Hamas’ decision in recent years to construct a military infrastructure beneath Gaza’s civilian infrastructure would be deemed newsworthy, if only because of what it meant about the way the next conflict would be fought and the cost to innocent people. But that is not the case. The Hamas emplacements were not important in themselves, and were therefore ignored. What was important was the Israeli decision to attack them.
> 
> ...


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## a_majoor (27 Aug 2014)

Part 3:



> There are, in other words, many different ways to see what is happening here. Jerusalem is less than a day’s drive from Aleppo or Baghdad, and it should be clear to everyone that peace is pretty elusive in the Middle East even in places where Jews are absent. But reporters generally cannot see the Israel story in relation to anything else. Instead of describing Israel as one of the villages abutting the volcano, they describe Israel as the volcano.
> 
> The Israel story is framed to seem as if it has nothing to do with events nearby because the “Israel” of international journalism does not exist in the same geo-political universe as Iraq, Syria, or Egypt. The Israel story is not a story about current events. It is about something else.
> 
> ...


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## Edward Campbell (27 Aug 2014)

People who follow my thoughts here (disjointed though they may be) will understand that I share Matti Friedman's analysis.


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## Colin Parkinson (27 Aug 2014)

My mind continues to boggle at the moral gymnastics people go through to justify their hate of Israel and any action by the West. It's common to compare tea party to ISIS/AQ. I love listening to people justify how they aren't living on "stolen land" here in BC and demand Israel to do what they will not.


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## Edward Campbell (7 Sep 2014)

There's an interesting, thought provoking (but too long to post) piece by Prof Assaf Sharon in the New York Review of Books in which he suggests that "The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has long ago become a shouting match over moral superiority ... [but] ... An agreement can be reached with the Palestinians, too: the terms are known and the price is fixed. Whether it is reached or not is a matter of political will on the part of Israeli and Palestinian leaders ... [and] ... The war in Gaza is, fundamentally, not about tunnels and not against rockets. It is a war over the status quo. Netanyahu’s “conflict management” is a euphemism for maintaining a status quo of settlement and occupation, allowing no progress ... [but, again] ... So long as Hamas is willing to use terror against innocent Israeli civilians and so long as it refuses to recognize the State of Israel, it will not be a “partner” for peace."


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## Colin Parkinson (8 Sep 2014)

A significant number of Palestinians and their supporters believe they can "win" against Israel. As long as they have control nothing is going to change as they will strive for the conditions to allow that win. The reality of this war from day 1 way back 1948 is that 2 people wanted the same house and can't live in peace together. So one side has to win and the other loses. In reality the Pals lost completely in 1973 but they were not allowed to accept that loss and were not allowed to find a permanent home elsewhere, with citizenship, except in a few Muslim countries. The land deals and withdrawals feed the hope of the "win side". But there is little the Israelis can offer now and nor should they offer anything else. The reality is that Egypt should give up some of it's territory to make Gaza workable, but that's not what the Arabs want, Gaza as a open sore is far to useful and notice how quiet Arabs are about Kurdish independence.


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## CougarKing (8 Sep 2014)

A generous offer refused by Palestinian leader Abbas.



> *Palestinians Offered State Five Times The Size Of Palestine By Egyptian President, Abbas Rejects*
> 
> International Business Times
> 
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (8 Sep 2014)

Surprised I am not, even if Abbas wanted to take the deal, it would be suicide for him to go against the current narrative.


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## CougarKing (15 Sep 2014)

CAS in the spotlight again:

Defense News



> *Gaza War Leaned Heavily On F-16 Close-Air Support*
> Sep. 15, 2014 - 10:56AM   |   By BARBARA OPALL-ROME
> 
> TEL AVIV — Hundreds of the more than 6,000 targets struck from the air during Israel’s 50-day urban war in Gaza were from fighter jets delivering one-ton bombs in record time and in close proximity to friendly ground forces.
> ...


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## Edward Campbell (27 Sep 2014)

_The Economist_ reports on the fallout from the Gaza campaign in this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from that newspaper:

http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21620569-hamas-being-force-make-political-concessions-ensure-reconstruction-after-its-war


> *Palestine after the war*
> Diplomatic defeat after victory
> *Hamas is being forced to make political concessions to ensure reconstruction after its war with Israel*
> 
> ...




Donor states, which includes Canada, need to remember that Hamas is a _terrorist_ entity and the aid, which Gaza does need, will, in at least some part, end up funding _terrorism_. It's a difficult problem: do we withhold aid from people who are suffering just because Hamas is Hamas?


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## Edward Campbell (27 Sep 2014)

And, from Israel's point of view, its technological prowess (it really is a global science and technology powerhouse) is not translating into broader support for its foreign policy according to this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from _Foreign Affairs_:

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/142112/rory-miller/stock-in-trade


> Stock in Trade
> *Israel Tries to Convert Commercial Appeal into Diplomatic Capital*
> 
> By Rory Miller
> ...


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## Edward Campbell (27 Sep 2014)

Further: the real issue war is being fought in the global media and the _fighters_ aren't Hamas terrorists or IDF soldiers, they re PR professionals. This article, which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _New York Observer_, a weekly paper that is, usually most concerned with cultural issues, illusrrates how the war is being waged:

http://observer.com/2014/09/the-muslim-brotherhoods-new-pr-agency-rejects-israel/


> *APOCALYPSE NOW*
> Burson-Marsteller Rejects Israel as a Client; Accepts Muslim Brotherhood
> *PR Giant Signs Tunisia Branch of Muslim Brotherhood But Thumbs Nose at Israel's Shekels*
> 
> ...


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## a_majoor (5 Dec 2014)

Some information about the tunnels which has surfaced (heh) in the post war analysis:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htinf/articles/20141130.aspx



> *Infantry: Tag Team With The Tunnel Terrorists*
> 
> November 30, 2014: The United States recently sent a team of officers and NCOs to Israel to study what Israel had discovered about the Hamas use of tunnels in combat. The U.S. and Israel have been sharing intel like this for decades. The Americans gathered a lot of data on Taliban and Iraqi use of tunnels since 2001. Apparently Hamas knew about a lot of that (Islamic terrorists share their tricks with each other) and came up with some new ideas, which the Israelis got very intimate with during the recent (July-August) “50 Day War” in Gaza. There Hamas used a lot of tunnels, some of them into Israel but most of them were all within Gaza, or to Egypt. What concerned the Israelis most were the new tunnels (some of them over a thousand meters long) into Israel. These were also deeper than the usual smuggling tunnel, so they were harder to find and the exit on the Israeli side was not completed until just before Hamas was to use the tunnel to bring large numbers of terrorists in to kill or kidnap Israelis.
> 
> ...


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