# Somali Islamic militant group Al Shabaab claims 2013 Kenya mall attack



## CougarKing (22 Sep 2013)

Apparently this attack was conducted by Islamic militants retaliating for the Kenyans' deployment of troops to Somalia to counter the Islamic group Al Shabab.

RIP to Annemarie Desloges, one of the Canadian victims at the mall attack who was working for DFAIT and Immigration Canada.

National Post



> *Kenya mall attack: Two Canadians among 68 dead, Islamic terrorists still hold hostages, large explosion heard*
> 
> A stunning terrorist attack at a shopping mall in Kenya’s capital on Saturday has struck home in Canada with the death of two Canadians, including a 29-year-old diplomat who worked at the Canadian embassy. The Islamic extremists behind the attack are holding an unknown amount of hostages and there are reports they executed the Christians among the hostages.
> 
> ...



- mod edit to thread title to date it -


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## jollyjacktar (22 Sep 2013)

Been following this since yesterday.  Hope they root out and take out all those who are holed up in the mall without losing anymore civilians.


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## OldSolduer (22 Sep 2013)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Been following this since yesterday.  Hope they root out and take out all those who are holed up in the mall without losing anymore civilians.



I think we need to start huntin season.....


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## old medic (22 Sep 2013)

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/22/world/africa/kenya-mall-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



> Nairobi, Kenya (CNN) -- Authorities in Kenya appeared close to ending a deadly siege early Monday at an upscale Nairobi mall, where attackers have killed at least 68 people, injured 175, and were believed to be holding about 30 people hostage.
> 
> *"All efforts are underway to bring this matter to a speedy conclusion," the Kenyan military announced on Twitter.
> 
> ...


  continues at link


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## jeffb (22 Sep 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I think we need to start huntin season.....



Where? Somalia? We tried that before and I can't imagine any government wanting us to go there again. It didn't turn out well for us or the Americans in the court of public opinion despite the reality on the ground.


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## The Bread Guy (22 Sep 2013)

More from the _National Post_:


> Canada offered its “full support” for the investigation into a deadly terrorist attack at a Nairobi shopping mall Sunday after an Ontario man was identified as one of the gunmen responsible.
> 
> The involvement of a Canadian has not been confirmed, but a “24 y.o. from Ontario Canada” is included on what appears to be a list of the gunmen that was posted on a Twitter feed that purports to belong to the Al-Shabab press office.
> 
> ...



Bad guys' Twitter account keeps disappearing, but this *UNCONFIRMED* list is from a forum sharing news about Somalia (post scan attached), citing yet another Somalia news site (whose post seems to have disappeared):


> ahmed mohamed isse 22 y.o native, from saint paul minnesota,
> abdifatah osman keenadiid. 24 y.o from minneapolis
> gen mustafe noorudiin. 27 y.o from kansas city. MO
> qasim said mussa 22 y.o garissa KE.
> ...


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## OldSolduer (22 Sep 2013)

jeffb said:
			
		

> Where? Somalia? We tried that before and I can't imagine any government wanting us to go there again. It didn't turn out well for us or the Americans in the court of public opinion despite the reality on the ground.



Some times the court of public opinion needs to be ignored. Much like Maggie Thatcher did in 1982.


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## old medic (23 Sep 2013)

One more, speculative name:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/kenya-shopping-mall-siege-assault



> ............Security sources said there were at least 10 attackers, including one woman, but there could have been as many as 15. One eyewitness, a 16-year-old Kenyan girl who escaped on Saturday, said the female militant might have been "mzungu", the Swahili for white person.
> 
> The possibility of a white attacker has fuelled speculation that a British terror suspect, Samantha Lewthwaite, nicknamed the "White Widow", could be involved in the plot. She was married to 7 July bomber Jermaine Lindsay, and was last year named on a Kenyan police wanted list over alleged links to a suspected terrorist cell.
> 
> Sunday began with a barrage of gunfire at 7am local time as Kenyan soldiers attempted to storm their way into the ground floor entrance to the mall's largest shop, the Nakumatt supermarket.     ..............


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## jollyjacktar (23 Sep 2013)

old medic said:
			
		

> One more, speculative name:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/kenya-shopping-mall-siege-assault



If Samatha was involved this wouldn't come as a surprise.  She's very bad news and a girl gone so very wrong.  If she was with this pack I hope she's taken out with them as well as she needs to be stopped.  At the very least I'd wager she was involved in the planning of it somehow.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Sep 2013)

The _National Post_ reports that "Canadian authorities are investigating an unverified report that a 24-year-old Ontario man was one of the Al-Shabab gunmen who stormed a Nairobi shopping mall over the weekend." The article botes that the report is from an _Al-Shabaab_ Twitter account.


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## Lightguns (23 Sep 2013)

The Kenyan army has an amazing variety of rifles.  I have seen, AK47s, AKMs, M4s, M16s, FN FAL, FN C, G3, and even a #5 Jungle Carbine.  Must make for an interesting Ammo DP during the fight for the mall.


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## jeffb (23 Sep 2013)

That's probably where they get their ammo from anyways.


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## a_majoor (24 Sep 2013)

One nuggert of good news as an apparently off duty soldier rescues some of the victims while the assault was underway. Other details as well from the on line edition of the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430201/Kenyan-Mall-Massacre-Off-duty-SAS-soldier-handgun-saved-100-lives.html



> *SAS hero of the mall massacre: Off duty soldier with a handgun saved 100 lives as terrorists ran amok*
> Was having coffee at Westgate mall when it was attacked on Saturday
> Returned to building a dozen times, despite intense gunfire
> Sources said the soldier was with the Special Air Service, or SAS
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Sep 2013)

I think the West can help Kenya some more to extract revenge for this. Best to use mainly African boots with some force multipliers to assist them.


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2013)

A bit of the latest on what Canada may be thinking ....


> The federal government will revisit its support for counter-terrorism training in East Africa and humanitarian support in Somalia following this weekend’s deadly attack in Kenya.
> 
> In recent years, Canada has been quietly helping to train police and security forces in sub-Saharan Africa where Islamist terror groups have been increasingly active.
> 
> ...


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## Loachman (24 Sep 2013)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Best to use mainly African boots



Is that because African boots are better than the ones with which we are issued?


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## tomahawk6 (24 Sep 2013)

The FBI and Israelis had boots on the ground and there was a small SAS presence.


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Sep 2013)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Is that because African boots are better than the ones with which we are issued?



Sadly that may be the case......


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## Lightguns (24 Sep 2013)

There is reports on Newsworld that they managed to get 3 living specimens in custody.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Sep 2013)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> There is reports on Newsworld that they managed to get 3 living specimens in custody.



I know it's wrong, but I can't help but have a thought that it's about time the "good guys" start wiping out the families of those who commit these acts. It MAY deter some in the future.

I'm sad to say that maybe I'm letting the "bad guys" win thinking like that.


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## ModlrMike (24 Sep 2013)

a la Sean Connery in The Untouchables

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue."


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## Remius (24 Sep 2013)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I know it's wrong, but I can't help but have a thought that it's about time the "good guys" start wiping out the families of those who commit these acts. It MAY deter some in the future.
> 
> I'm sad to say that maybe I'm letting the "bad guys" win thinking like that.



There are a lot of things the good guys could do for deterence.  Things the general public would not be able to stomach.  The Romans had creative ways of dealing with problems.  So did Alexander the Great.  Heck, the Mongols solved their problems before they even became problems.

But that sort of thing would never fly.


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## jollyjacktar (24 Sep 2013)

The Russians used this in Beirut in the mid 80's with great effect.  They weren't messed with twice there.  I worked with someone who was in our embassy at the time and told me about it.


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## Remius (24 Sep 2013)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> The Russians used this in Beirut in the mid 80's with great effect.  They weren't messed with twice there.  I worked with someone who was in our embassy at the time and told me about it.



I believe they mailed a body part or two belonging to the hostage takers families and that more would follow if they didn't release some hostages.  Alpha Team, or Group or something like that.


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2013)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> The Russians used this in Beirut in the mid 80's with great effect.  They weren't messed with twice there.  I worked with someone who was in our embassy at the time and told me about it.


That was also around the time the Soviets still had non-Western ways to deal with internal political opposition, too, in the days when nobody gave a rat's hind quarters about public opinion and perception.


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## OldSolduer (24 Sep 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> That was also around the time the Soviets still had non-Western ways to deal with internal political opposition, too, in the days when nobody gave a rat's hind quarters about public opinion and perception.


Now its all about "root causes".


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## MilEME09 (24 Sep 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Now its all about "root causes".



Which leads to "soft" diplomacy as I like to call it, where no country really wants to set a firm stance or get it's hands dirty. If they did the election might not go in their favour, all boiling down to the court of public opinion and the media.


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## OldSolduer (24 Sep 2013)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Which leads to "soft" diplomacy as I like to call it, where no country really wants to set a firm stance or get it's hands dirty. If they did the election might not go in their favour, all boiling down to the court of public opinion and the media.



The vast majority of the public have never lost a relative to a terrorist, nor have the media.


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## Kilo_302 (24 Sep 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> The vast majority of the public have never lost a relative to a terrorist, nor have the media.



Exactly. Terrorism is really not the threat that the media loves to make it out to be.  Look at the media coverage of this event. 62 people dying in a single incident in an African country rarely makes much of an impact in our media for the usual reasons. I almost laughed watching Ian Hanomansing musing on air last night that the story was so significant because "Many people are thinking, 'Boy I was just in a mall, it could have happened to me.'" Duh. It was an attack on a mall frequented by wealthy Kenyans and Westerners, so we are talking about it.  The simple fact is, terrorism is not much of a threat outside of a very few places (Iraq, Afghanistan etc). And there are far more tragic and banal and common ways to die, especially in Africa. 

The suggestions of some that we "go after the families of terrorists" doesn't make much sense either, however emotionally satisfying it may be. Terrorism 101: terrorists want to inspire an overreaction on the part of government forces (whoever they might be) to in turn drive recruitment and support for their cause. Invading Afghanistan and Iraq played right in Al-Qaeda's hands unfortunately, it just took 10+ years for us to figure that out. So would murdering the families of suspected or convicted terrorists. Do we want to give extremists more evidence of "Western crimes?" Look, if the price of our continued economic success is the occasional terrorist attack on the fringes of empire (or the even more occasional attack at home) that's something we will just have to live with.


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## Jed (24 Sep 2013)

Kilo_302 said:
			
		

> Exactly. Terrorism is really not the threat that the media loves to make it out to be.  Look at the media coverage of this event. 62 people dying in a single incident in an African country rarely makes much of an impact in our media for the usual reasons. I almost laughed watching Ian Hanomansing musing on air last night that the story was so significant because "Many people are thinking, 'Boy I was just in a mall, it could have happened to me.'" Duh. It was an attack on a mall frequented by wealthy Kenyans and Westerners, so we are talking about it.  The simple fact is, terrorism is not much of a threat outside of a very few places (Iraq, Afghanistan etc). And there are far more tragic and banal and common ways to die, especially in Africa.
> 
> The suggestions of some that we "go after the families of terrorists" doesn't make much sense either, however emotionally satisfying it may be. Terrorism 101: terrorists want to inspire an overreaction on the part of government forces (whoever they might be) to in turn drive recruitment and support for their cause. Invading Afghanistan and Iraq played right in Al-Qaeda's hands unfortunately, it just took 10+ years for us to figure that out. So would murdering the families of suspected or convicted terrorists. Do we want to give extremists more evidence of "Western crimes?" Look, if the price of our continued economic success is the occasional terrorist attack on the fringes of empire (or the even more occasional attack at home) that's something we will just have to live with.



You are quite right about that. However ,and it is a big however; appeasement has to be reigned in before inertia drags us down a slippery slope to the bottom of the ditch. We have to stand our ground some time an set up to make an effective counter attack.


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## jollyjacktar (25 Sep 2013)

Crantor said:
			
		

> I believe they mailed a body part or two belonging to the hostage takers families and that more would follow if they didn't release some hostages.  Alpha Team, or Group or something like that.


Not mailed but personal delivery to the doorstep area.  The hostages were released within hours and there was never a repeat performance against the Russians.


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## Remius (25 Sep 2013)

Kilo_302 said:
			
		

> The suggestions of some that we "go after the families of terrorists" doesn't make much sense either, however emotionally satisfying it may be. Terrorism 101: terrorists want to inspire an overreaction on the part of government forces (whoever they might be) to in turn drive recruitment and support for their cause. Invading Afghanistan and Iraq played right in Al-Qaeda's hands unfortunately, it just took 10+ years for us to figure that out. So would murdering the families of suspected or convicted terrorists. Do we want to give extremists more evidence of "Western crimes?" Look, if the price of our continued economic success is the occasional terrorist attack on the fringes of empire (or the even more occasional attack at home) that's something we will just have to live with.



I don't think anyone here seriously thinks we should go after families of terrorists.  But our western values are exactly why it is difficult to go after these guys in the most effective manner.  The problem is that the west hesitates and limits it's responses to these things.    You need an overwhelming, decisive and very very clear response.

I'm probably going to sound like a thug for saying this but...9/11 was the perfect chance for the US to send a very real and clear message.  3000 people were killed on their own side.  The Taliban were harbouring those responsible.  I'm convinced that the US should have dropped a low yield nuke on anyone of a number of training camps and tell the world not to eff with them.  Do you really think Iran, North Korea or any other despotic ruler would have been sabre rattling all these years?  Oh, there would have been condemnation etc but you can bet that there would be 20 years of "Leave them alone" and "maybe we should take them seriously".   

You can bet that some of these psychos are willing to die for their cause but they are likely not too keen on having their kids or wives or parents do the same.  It's not right, I agree, but it likely is a very good deterence.  They don't play by the rules and the West does (or what we see as the rules) and they know it.

The price of our economic success shouldn't have to be the occasional terrorist attack nor should we have to live with that.  in fact the occasional terrorist attack is what likely threatens that exact success.


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## a_majoor (28 Sep 2013)

One very positive tale of heroism, and the darker side of the terrorist group (as if it could get any worse):

http://gma.yahoo.com/kenyan-heros-harrowing-tale-rescues-mall-massacre-134150330--abc-news-topstories.html



> *Kenyan Hero's Harrowing Tale of Rescues in Mall Massacre*
> 
> By Alexander Marquardt | ABC News – Fri, Sep 27, 2013 9:41 AM EDT
> 
> ...



and the darker side:

http://www.newser.com/story/174983/nairobi-mall-victims-were-tortured-say-reports.html



> *Nairobi Mall Victims Brutally Tortured: Reports*
> DOCTORS, INVESTIGATORS OFFER GRUESOME ACCOUNTS
> 
> By John Johnson,  Newser Staff
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (29 Sep 2013)

Unleash the drones !!


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## The Bread Guy (7 Sep 2015)

old medic said:
			
		

> One more, speculative name:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/kenya-shopping-mall-siege-assault
> 
> ...


Bumped with the latest ....


> A Kenyan court on Friday said prosecutors should close their case against British terror suspect Samantha Lewthwaite, dubbed the "White Widow", after failing to produce her in court.
> 
> Lewthwaite is accused of possessing explosives and planning terrorist attacks on Kenya's tourist coast, but police have been unable to find her since she gave them the slip in 2012.
> 
> ...


Still on Interpol's Red list, though ....


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