# hey Kev do you have one of these? ;)



## Ex-Dragoon (5 Jul 2005)

http://www.yikers.com/video_automatic_shotgun_in_action.html


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## Infanteer (5 Jul 2005)

Seems like something you should have for a Boarding Party.


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Jul 2005)

Nice firepower but a little too cumbersome when going into confined spaces in the holds.


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## Infanteer (5 Jul 2005)

I bet you could make the space with that....


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## The_Falcon (5 Jul 2005)

That was bloody awesome, but I bet you are going to be hurtin after firing one of those.


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Jul 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I bet you could make the space with that....



And then some


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## Britney Spears (5 Jul 2005)

You know what he thinks about shorter weapons and confined quaters.....


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Jul 2005)

Now that would be ideal...


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## KevinB (5 Jul 2005)

Brit - you've been digging in my vault again  

Serbu's little toy is nice ain't it...



I dont like shotguns for anything but ballistic breaching - the little breacher/msterkey - like the SERBU is ideal.  CQB is a precision shooting arena - shotguns are just too messy.


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## Britney Spears (5 Jul 2005)

You should put that in your next round of UCRs.

"Hey sir, you know what we REALLY need? Shotguns that fit in our pistol holsters!  No, seriously, trust me on this....<insert 3 pages of ballistic gel/anaethesized pig testing gobbly-gook to make it sound legit>"

I'd carry it right beside my lightweight fighting tomahawk.


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## KevinB (5 Jul 2005)

Brit look I know you surf Lightfighter - you know that Megaforces sidearm is an OPSEC issue   ;D


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## pappy (6 Jul 2005)

sweeeeeet.... ;D

you know it's fun when it takes twice as long to load the mag as it does to empty it... humm 12ga stripper clips?

seemed kinda akward to slide the mag on the gun.  Now if they could just up-size it a little to 40mm....  

I feel inadiquit with my semi-auto 1187...

Cute pic of the pump 12ga, that's just what I need for my Miata, talk about confined spaces...


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## TCBF (6 Jul 2005)

"anaethesized pig testing"

-If you drug the pigs first, it will corrupt the data.  The Pigs gotta get whacked without much ado. Like the US Army shooting cats in the head as part of a GSW trauma study  in the eighties.  They thought drugging them first would placate the PETANazis.  it just enraged them further, because they realized the data collected by dropping hammer on thr felines was useless.

Meow.

Tom


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## mudgunner49 (6 Jul 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> ... they realized the data collected by dropping hammer on the felines was useless.
> 
> Meow.
> 
> Tom



...dropping the hammer on felines is never useless!!!


Blake
(avowed cat hater)


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## TCBF (6 Jul 2005)

Blake, people who hate cats are destined to be re-incarnated as mice.  anyway, back to scattergunz:

I think the photo above has the whole effect done in by having Winchester Double 'A' clay target ammo in the frame.  Would have been better with some of those Aguila Mexican HD slug loads in a 1 1/2 " hull.  They sure are purty.

Tom


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## pappy (6 Jul 2005)

Federal Tactical 00 buck....  

You know the French loaded a "special" load when they where in a far away place called French Indochina....  two nasty versions... one was two large ball bearings with a length of piano wire tack welded to them, the other was same idea with 6 tad bit smaller ball bearings is a 5-pointed star, with one in the center...  

Well the FFL did "hire" all the left over NAZI/SS troops....  

I think you all can imigine what would happen it that hit someone... 

of course this is just for informational purposes only.... don't try this at home kids...


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Jul 2005)

I still think we should have dragon's breath and flechettes on inventory.


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## pappy (6 Jul 2005)

I've fired 12ga Flechettes, not enough in the 12ga shell, and not enough power... how the 40mm Flechette rd is a bit better, but untill you get them up to high veloicties they don't work....  high fps = 90mm and above...  impressive fired out of a 105mm up close...  when I was in Arty my first Section chief taught us the tricks of the trade...  

on the M110 8" howitzer the field expedient cluster load was charge 7 with as many Eye-bolts (you know the carrying Eye-bolts the rounds are shipped with in the fuse well) packed in with rags as seals..... nasty direct fire load, granted your in deep-doo-doo if the little folks where that close...  he had home movies to give the needed effect... 

Now thats a Shotgun....


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## devil39 (6 Jul 2005)

pappy said:
			
		

> I've fired 12ga Flechettes, not enough in the 12ga shell, and not enough power... how the 40mm Flechette rd is a bit better, but untill you get them up to high veloicties they don't work....   high fps = 90mm and above...   impressive fired out of a 105mm up close...   when I was in Arty my first Section chief taught us the tricks of the trade...
> 
> on the M110 8" howitzer the field expedient cluster load was charge 7 with as many Eye-bolts (you know the carrying Eye-bolts the rounds are shipped with in the fuse well) packed in with rags as seals..... nasty direct fire load, granted your in deep-doo-doo if the little folks where that close...   he had home movies to give the needed effect...
> 
> Now thats a Shotgun....



A nice grapeshot I would imagine...


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## a_majoor (7 Jul 2005)

But how will Kevin or Britney carry *that *in a holster?


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## KevinB (7 Jul 2005)

Killer Jr - Arty rounds with VT fuzes fired direct 

I have tried the 12ga Flechette and 40MM versions -- I agree with Pappy they dont have the needed velocity - they just porcupine targets - and get the guy really mad (no I did not shoot anyone to test this theory - a LE dept did it for me   )

 5.56mm ammo - especially in the Mk262 and Mk264 77gr flavours has about the best close in terminal effect of any LandWarfare legal round (155gr or 178gr AMAX 7.62 would be nice - but the JAG would string me up) 12ga is not a good CQB choice and as such having a team medic as the dedicated breacher with a 870 Shorty to be a good choice - and ONLY with 12ga Breaching Rounds (contact your local Ski Team rep   )


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## pappy (7 Jul 2005)

hummm the Navy/ DOD JAG ruled it ok for US Marines (this was in reference to FAST teams and S/S, not sure they intended for everyone to use them, thier point was taking out tangos was more "law-enforcement" rather then "law warfare") to use HP pistol ammo on Tangos, as well as the Seirra MatchKings and the like in various loadings, been away a lil while not sure about the AMAX.... But I'd tend to say they'd be ok two since the civvy Police forces use them so there would be some legal standing...  

take a looksie at the Sierra GameKings, that one I think would get someone shooting on record a interesting entry on Page Eleven.  Can you say "gapping exit wound", I know you could... (.224 55gr HPBT & the .308 165gr HPBT) now these ain't your typical soft-point hunting bullets, crack open a box and take a gander at the niffty HP.  

But the ployimer tip uints are the trick these days, more reliable feeding in a semi-auto / full auto.

Not sure why all the PC about what the military uses in bullet design, last I check the end purpose was killing the enemy.  let's not start a long discussion about the Gen. Conv.

being a bit cranky tonight I'd say we start lubing our bullets with pig fat, and send  videos of it to Osama and his Al Q aboys... don't they have a thing againest Swine?
Opps I know I'm not being sensitive and showing compassion...

you know if they made an alarm clock with the sound of impacting arty... that wold be a seller... a sound one never forgets

Arty rules, well except for B52 arclights  hehe, buddy of mine was at Khe Sanh when the arclight strikes took out give or take 10,000 NVA Regulars in a matter of days.  I'm sure hes wishing we did more of that in A-stan since it was his nephew that was the LT in charge of SEAL team 10 that was shot down last week.  I'll be heading back the Arlington NC with him to bury Micheal, hence my crankyness these days...

kinda a small world, my nephew just got rotated back to CONUS from the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment that was taking them in...


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## KevinB (7 Jul 2005)

Pappy - certain units that have a Anti-Terrorist role are allowed to use expanding rounds and are not bound by the Hague Convention.

 However conventional forces are bound while engaged in land warfare duties.  The US JAG has ruled the ploymer tip bullets are designed for expansion and thus not legal for unrestricted landwarfare usage.  The Sierra Matchking however the hollowpoint is part of a manufacturing process and the hollowpoint is not a source of expansion - thus it is not designed to create greater wounding or unnecessary suffering.  The BTHP rounds (in 5.56mm) act like most normal BT bullets in that they yaw in tissue and when the stresses on them are great enough (2500-2700fps + for M855/C77) they fragment typically at the cannelure and have an explosive wound - since the Mk262 and Mk264 are BTHP that act like FMJBT (M855/C77/SS109) rounds they are deemed legal for unrestricted landwarfare usage (same with the 168gr and 175gr SMK's in 7.62mm)  Thus the 77gr rounds are about the most effective small arms round available for landwarfare usage (as well due to the lenght of the heavier rounds they fragement down to lower velocities - again not a manufactured design)

 Pistol ammuntion is different and we are stuck with non expanding rounds that do damage from crush of tissue.

The GameKing and other soft point rifle rounds are not nearly as effective as the fragementing rounds since they only cause damage from tissue crush along the projectile path


RIP on your buddy's nephew


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