# Computer Engineering Technology related to becoming a Signal Operator?



## Spriggan91 (9 Aug 2011)

Hello. I'm planning on becoming a Signal Operator once I'm done with College. I know there has been a lot of topics about Signal Operators after reading through them. But since I'm going to Seneca College currently this year to take Computer Engineering Technology (ECT) http://www.senecac.on.ca/fulltime/ECT.html courses there. I would like to know if it could actually help me become a Signal Operator once I've earned the College Diploma for it as well in addition to passing the BMQ courses and the MOC training obviously once I signed up. If Computer Engineering Technology is not the right courses that relates to Signal Ops, any additional info whatsoever for the College programs I should take in Seneca that would help me become a Sig Ops? 

Also, those who are actually are working as a Signal Ops. Any feedback would be appreciated.


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## rmc_wannabe (9 Aug 2011)

All I can say is that it wouldn't hurt. The thing you have to remember is that there are very little college courses that parallel a specific MOS in any trade in the Army. We do work with a lot of similar systems, however there are other aspects of our job such as crypto and radio systems that you will work with as an ACISS (which is what Sig Op, Lineman, and Tech rolled into just recently). 

The more you have to offer at the recruiting centre, the more the Army has to offer you.

 Computer Systems Technology, Computer Engineering Technology, Programming, etc. are useful in the world of IS, but more so in civiland if you decide the Army is not for you. 

The better question to ask in my opinion is what does Industry require for IT personnel in order to be competitive and hired? Figure out that answer and you'll know what will give you the best idea of what the Army is looking for.

Just my  :2c:


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## Ludoc (9 Aug 2011)

Completing any course will make you more competitive compared to other applicants, so yes your course will help you join the trade. The army will teach you what it believes you need to know when you get in so I wouldn't worry about what course you are taking. 

Sig Ops will soon cease to exist as we are transitioned to the new trade of ACISS. In fact they have stopped training Sig Ops to train ACISS pers. The new trade will be divided into four sub trades, one of which is an IS (computer tech) trade. What does that mean for you? As someone with a computer background you will most likely be identified as a person who will excel in the computer side of things and be guided that way by the military.

Bottom line: you don't need the course to get in but it will help you become an IS guy (girl?) once you get in.


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## Spriggan91 (9 Aug 2011)

Oh good, I guess I wouldn't have to worry much about the courses I'm currently taking in College to becoming a Signal Ops. I'm 19 Years old and I've spent 3 years in the Army Cadets already so I'll see what being in the Canadian Forces would be like.

But besides the Computer courses I'm currently taking. Can you also work as an Infantrymen while working as a Sig Ops from what I've heard? Or do you get selected depending on what position they put you in? Also this might sound a little crazy, but what does it take to enter the CSOR (Canadian Special Operations Regiment) while you're a Signal Ops? Because I'm also interested in looking into the selection process of entering the CSOR. :nod: And yes, I do work-out and do biking and swimming, etc..

Army Communications and Information Systems Specialist (ACISS), right? Any idea when they will become activated?


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## rmc_wannabe (9 Aug 2011)

Spriggan91 said:
			
		

> Oh good, I guess I wouldn't have to worry much about the courses I'm currently taking in College to becoming a Signal Ops. I'm 19 Years old and I've spent 3 years in the Army Cadets already so I'll see what being in the Canadian Forces would be like.



Always remember that they are not the same thing and you'll be fine. Its people that forget there's a line that have the most trouble .



> But besides the Computer courses I'm currently taking. Can you also work as an Infantrymen while working as a Sig Ops from what I've heard? Or do you get selected depending on what position they put you in?



This can happen, however they usually use Infanteers as Platoon and Company Signallers. Most of the Sigs I know in Infantry Battalions work as CP staff.



> Also this might sound a little crazy, but what does it take to enter the CSOR (Canadian Special Operations Regiment) while you're a Signal Ops? Because I'm also interested in looking into the selection process of entering the CSOR. :nod: And yes, I do work-out and do biking and swimming, etc..



Sig Ops can be employed with CANSOFCOM units after successful application. However,while it is good to have aspirations, don't put the cart before the horse my friend. Focus on getting your foot in the door, know how to do your job, and get experience before you think too far ahead.



> Army Communications and Information Systems Specialist (ACISS), right? Any idea when they will become activated?



AFAIK it should have started April of this year.


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## Spriggan91 (9 Aug 2011)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> Always remember that they are not the same thing and you'll be fine. Its people that forget there's a line that have the most trouble .



I'm aware that Cadets and the Canadian Forces are not the exact same thing so I won't argue with that. 

In any case, as long as you have a computer background, especially the college courses I plan on taking and stuff. They will most likely accept me in becoming a Sig Ops, right?



> This can happen, however they usually use Infanteers as Platoon and Company Signallers. Most of the Sigs I know in Infantry Battalions work as CP staff.



I see. Can you switch as an Infanteer say if you're working as a Comms or Signallers by any chances?



> Sig Ops can be employed with CANSOFCOM units after successful application. However,while it is good to have aspirations, don't put the cart before the horse my friend. Focus on getting your foot in the door, know how to do your job, and get experience before you think too far ahead.
> 
> AFAIK it should have started April of this year.



Know the job first and gaining more experiences before thinking too far ahead.. Got ya! 

Curious, how do you get selected to be employed with one of the CANSOFCOM? Does some Officer approach you or something? Or does it really depends on how you do your job?

Anyways, thanks for the help and advice.


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## rmc_wannabe (9 Aug 2011)

Spriggan91 said:
			
		

> I'm aware that Cadets and the Canadian Forces are not the exact same thing so I won't argue with that.
> 
> In any case, as long as you have a computer background, especially the college courses I plan on taking and stuff. They will most likely accept me in becoming a Sig Ops, right?



Pretty much. Ultimately talk to the recruiter to make sure and you're golden.



> I see. Can you switch as an Infanteer say if you're working as a Comms or Signallers by any chances?



Anything is possible, however its not likely. 



> Know the job first and gaining more experiences before thinking too far ahead.. Got ya!



 :nod:



> Curious, how do you get selected to be employed with one of the CANSOFCOM? Does some Officer approach you or something? Or does it really depends on how you do your job?



http://www.cansofcom.forces.gc.ca/cr/index-eng.asp Google is your friend, especially in the world of IS 



> Anyways, thanks for the help and advice.



No problem, Best of luck


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## chrisf (9 Aug 2011)

If they have a communications engineering technology course, that would much closer to what sig ops (and ACISS ops) do. 

*In my oppinion* you'd also be more employable after leaving the forces... there's an excess of individuals in the job market place right now with various "computer" certifications, there's a lack of individuals with "communications" certifications... much of the training/work sig ops do is what a communications eng tech would do in the civillian world, but they have no civillian certifications as such, have limited employment in the civillian world... 

Have a comm eng tech diploma + experience as a sig op/ACISS op, and you'd be set for post army employment if/when you choose to leave. Depending on where you're posted, it's quite possible/likely to do "computer" support as a sig op, but again, if/when you choose to leave the army, you'd be competing against a much broader pool.

Is it a two or three year eng tech diploma? (I ask because I have a 3 year eng tech diploma, but the first year was common to all the programs at the school, you could switch between programs at the end of the first year, and could switch between "clusters" up to one semester after that, for example, electrical/electronics/communications/biomed/software all did a common semester following their common first year, while mechanical/manufacturing did a common semester following their common first year)


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## REDinstaller (10 Aug 2011)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> an ACISS (which is what Sig Op, Lineman, and Tech rolled into just recently).



HUH???? There has been no official change at this point from LCIS, LNM and Sig Op. We are all still separate trades, and hopefully will remain so. Treasury Board has only indicated according to the lack luster briefs that the earliest any decision will be made is 1 Sept 11. IMHO I hope they kill it and send the MES team packing.  :2c:


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## Ludoc (10 Aug 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> HUH???? There has been no official change at this point from LCIS, LNM and Sig Op. We are all still separate trades, and hopefully will remain so. Treasury Board has only indicated according to the lack luster briefs that the earliest any decision will be made is 1 Sept 11. IMHO I hope they kill it and send the MES team packing.  :2c:



 Officially blessed or not the change has already begun. We have already received pers who have completed their ACISS DP 1 (QL 3) in my unit, and sent people on their ACISS DP 2 (QL 5). 

As far as CFSCE is concerned Sig Ops, Line men and LCIS Techs don't exist. We all know the school exists in it's own bubble and what goes on there has very little bearing on what happens in the real world but that means those three trades are no longer having any courses run. The only courses the school is running are ACISS  courses. 


i don't think that MES is a particularly great Idea or that well implemented so far but it is here to stay and we are going to have to live with it.


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## REDinstaller (10 Aug 2011)

Until the TB approves nothing is here to stay MESwise, or else it would have happened already. And those of us that live in the world that has the blue sky all know that.


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## Baywop (23 Aug 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Until the TB approves nothing is here to stay MESwise, or else it would have happened already. And those of us that live in the world that has the blue sky all know that.


TB has nothing to do with MES, only for the pay.


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## PuckChaser (23 Aug 2011)

Baywop said:
			
		

> TB has nothing to do with MES, only for the pay.



That's what T18A was talking about, pay for MES trades is being decided by the TB.


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## rmc_wannabe (24 Aug 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> That's what T18A was talking about, pay for MES trades is being decided by the TB.



Ah crap, does this mean we might haveto work for free?  ???  ;D


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## REDinstaller (24 Aug 2011)

Only if you want to be a Sig Op.  >


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## rmc_wannabe (24 Aug 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Only if you want to be a Sig Op.  >



No thanks, I'm moving to ISTanbul  8). I have had my share of being a TOCroach   :.


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## REDinstaller (24 Aug 2011)

We'll see how long IST lasts, it might go the way of the 225 SIS Tech in a few years, and you'll all be Sig Ops again.


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## PuckChaser (24 Aug 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> We'll see how long IST lasts, it might go the way of the 225 SIS Tech in a few years, and you'll all be Sig Ops again.



I'd have to agree here, it's pretty hairbrained. Considering a lot of the tacrad stuff is going towards IP-based systems, IST and ACISS core are going to be completely interchangable in a few years.


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## JBP (30 Aug 2011)

Ha, most of the 'radio' Sig Op types I know wouldn't know what to do with a computer except try and hit someone with it. Interchangeable? ... More like laughable. Sure the radios might end up using IP's, but an IST that does not make, even remotely! Can they build a server? Can they program a router or a switch? Can they manage active directory in a forest?... Can they troubleshoot network issues over WAN and LAN links? Can they figure out why the laptop cannot access shared drives? Can they maintain and manage SANs? Can they do bandwidth testing on TSL links?... And the list goes on... And on.... and on......

Please...

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but it is NOT as cut and dry as one might think. There will be no interchangeable from ACISS core to IST if this thing is even remotely implemented right. Just like throwing me back on a radio that I haven't touched since my 3's... Could I operate it effectively, hell no. Sure I could get a freq in there, could I remember exactly how to load the crypto or troubleshoot the error tones? Probably not.

 :

Anyways, for the OP, any computer related diploma is a great thing to have if your going to be entering the Sigs world. Is it overkill? No, not if you're planning on going the Techy or IST way. You should ask for the signing bonus once you have your diploma. If you go into the ACISS core and want to stay there, it's a bit of an overkill but you cannot knock any technological training these days.


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## Occam (30 Aug 2011)

Sig Joeschmo said:
			
		

> Ha, most of the 'radio' Sig Op types I know wouldn't know what to do with a computer except try and hit someone with it. Interchangeable? ... More like laughable. Sure the radios might end up using IP's, but an IST that does not make, even remotely! Can they build a server? Can they program a router or a switch? Can they manage active directory in a forest?... Can they troubleshoot network issues over WAN and LAN links? Can they figure out why the laptop cannot access shared drives? Can they maintain and manage SANs? Can they do bandwidth testing on TSL links?... And the list goes on... And on.... and on......



Most of those skills won't be used by anyone in uniform, the way things are heading.  You'll need to create/modify users in AD and other simple tasks, and the rest will be a second line function done by CS (civvies).


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## rmc_wannabe (30 Aug 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Most of those skills won't be performed by anyone in uniform, the way things are heading.  You'll need to create/modify users in AD and other simple tasks, and the rest will be a second line function done by CS (civvies).



I think Joe was going with the more Black side of the house. especially in the LCSS. I find it hard to believe they would use a CS to fix a FOB LCSS kit, or a TSL, or an HCLOS outside the wire. We are in the business of MILITARY communications after all. We need pers that have the technical qulaifications, but are also trained at the core to shoot back when things get dicey. The message must be passed regardless of medium or tactical situation. Combat Techies are a necessary thing.


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## Occam (30 Aug 2011)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I think Joe was going with the more Black side of the house. especially in the LCSS. I find it hard to believe they would use a CS to fix a FOB LCSS kit, or a TSL, or an HCLOS outside the wire. We are in the business of MILITARY communications after all. We need pers that have the technical qulaifications, but are also trained at the core to shoot back when things get dicey. The message must be passed regardless of medium or tactical situation. Combat Techies are a necessary thing.



Understood.  Those tasks you described (and anything else used "in the field') will be carried out by uniformed people out of necessity.  The TLANs, and domestic networks etc. are a different matter, though.  Rights are being pulled back to the civvies just about everywhere you look.


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## JBP (31 Aug 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Understood.  Those tasks you described (and anything else used "in the field') will be carried out by uniformed people out of necessity.  The TLANs, and domestic networks etc. are a different matter, though.  Rights are being pulled back to the civvies just about everywhere you look.



For domestic / static networks that has been the case for the last few years that yes, they've been moving all those capabilities to the civvies, but with the cutbacks the military is looking at doing and trimming the 'civilian' contractor fat we have, I'm wondering if it's going to get axed again soon. Last I heard, civvies from 742 said they cannot get civvy IT people to come onboard often because it's all 1 year contracts with no pension and crappy benefits. Maybe that's changed since I've been overseas in the last little while though. It very well could have with the way the economy is going, I'm sure someone with the skills will jump on it.

As for LCSS (Tacnet), it is supported by DLCSPM which does has some civilians assigned to us and we have some contractors assigned to us on site sometimes but it's guys in uniform who run the whole thing.


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