# Canadian Forces Reservists behind fake letter warning of wolves being released



## MilEME09 (12 Oct 2020)

https://globalnews.ca/news/7392996/canadian-reservists-wolves-fake-letter/amp/

Welcome to a PR nightmare, not a person named but a unit that created this. Why do I feel like an OC is about to find a new job.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (12 Oct 2020)

An Intel unit studying the art of disinformation, perhaps?


----------



## dapaterson (12 Oct 2020)

Troops doing stupid things as a joke is nothing new.  This is not the first time, nor will it be the last time.

Every unit CO experiences this sort of thing during their tenure.


----------



## Kilted (13 Oct 2020)

Are we sure that this wasn't a mistake by the media that should have said "members of a unit"?


----------



## dapaterson (13 Oct 2020)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> An Intel unit studying the art of disinformation, perhaps?



If these are exercise products of some sort they are supposed to be labelled as such.


----------



## PMedMoe (13 Oct 2020)

Nice memo formatting.


----------



## NavyShooter (13 Oct 2020)

I feel sorry for the CO of the base at Aldershot...how do you rebuild relations with the community after something like this?


----------



## Retired AF Guy (13 Oct 2020)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Nice memo formatting.



Except for addressing the letter "To Whom it May Concern" rather than "Dear Resident"and a typo "untook" instead of "undertook" they did a pretty good job.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (13 Oct 2020)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> An Intel unit studying the art of disinformation, perhaps?



I don't think 3 Int Coy has any sub-units in Camp Aldershot.  

There is a 5th Canadian Division Training Centre detachment there, the West Nova Scotia Regiment (West Novies), and I thought I read in the recent past The Halifax Rifles had a Troop/sub-unit there.

_The letter, which looked like an official note from the province’s Department of Lands and Forestry, wound up in a number of mailboxes of residents in Kings County._

Mailboxes makes it sound to me like someone made the effort to *print and distribute* the letters.   op:


----------



## MilEME09 (14 Oct 2020)

The latest is that this was material meant to be part of misinformation training and was never intended to be distributed to the public. Apparently said training also involved loud speakers broadcasting wolf sounds. According to Public affairs this was not supposed to be part of the training and are now investigating what is going on at the unit in question, The Halifax Rifles.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (14 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> The latest is that this was material meant to be part of misinformation training and was never intended to be distributed to the public. Apparently said training also involved loud speakers broadcasting wolf sounds. According to Public affairs this was not supposed to be part of the training and are now investigating what is going on at the unit in question, The Halifax Rifles.



http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/5-canadian-division/the-halifax-rifles/index.page


> Mission Task
> 
> A number of Army Reserve units have been assigned specific Mission Tasks. Members within these units are trained in these specific capabilities and ready to be fully integrated, as a formed entity, into the Regular Force units that they reinforce.
> 
> The mission task for our unit is: Influence Activities – A company of 52 members, which is trained in the employment of population group influence techniques, including Psychological Operations and Civil-Military Cooperation, to provide behavioural and *psychological effects on those populations* in support of a Commander’s intent or mission.



If the psychological effect is to piss off the population, then they have made a good start.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (14 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> The latest is that this was material meant to be part of misinformation training and was never intended to be distributed to the public. Apparently said training also involved loud speakers broadcasting wolf sounds. According to Public affairs this was not supposed to be part of the training and are now investigating what is going on at the unit in question, The Halifax Rifles.



Source for your "latest"?  Did it include any comments on how letters were distributed to communities??


----------



## MilEME09 (14 Oct 2020)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Source for your "latest"?  Did it include any comments on how letters were distributed to communities??



Source is against site policy, it did not include how, I suspect that will be part of the investigation. Social media is exploding with conspiracy theories that the CAF is preparing to use propaganda against Canadian citizens. Not a good day to be in public affairs.


----------



## OldSolduer (14 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Source is against site policy, it did not include how, I suspect that will be part of the investigation. Social media is exploding with conspiracy theories that the CAF is preparing to use propaganda against Canadian citizens. Not a good day to be in public affairs.



One of my philosophies is "every organization has a loser or losers". It seems we've found some...


----------



## Eye In The Sky (14 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Source is against site policy, it did not include how, I suspect that will be part of the investigation. Social media is exploding with conspiracy theories that the CAF is preparing to use propaganda against Canadian citizens. Not a good day to be in public affairs.



copy!


----------



## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Social media is exploding with conspiracy theories that the CAF is preparing to use propaganda against Canadian citizens.



Seems like an excellent time for the CAF to have mbrs share IA-approved messages on their personal social media pages.


----------



## blacktriangle (14 Oct 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> If these are exercise products of some sort they are supposed to be labelled as such.



Oops!


----------



## The Bread Guy (14 Oct 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> One of my philosophies is "every organization has a loser or losers". It seems we've found some...





			
				Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Seems like an excellent time for the CAF to have mbrs share IA-approved messages on their personal social media pages.


 :nod: on both of these points

Some of the latest from The Canadian Press ...


> The Canadian Armed Forces is apologizing after some residents of Kings County, N.S., received a phoney letter warning of wolves in the area.
> 
> The letter, dated Sept. 19, said a pack of eight grey wolves had been released in northern Nova Scotia in August to reintroduce the species into the ecosystem.
> 
> ...


----------



## Blackadder1916 (14 Oct 2020)

> Lt. Lance Wade, a public affairs officer with the36 Canadian Brigade Group, acknowledged in an interview Tuesday that the letter came from an army reserve training session at Camp Aldershot outside Kentville, N.S.
> . . .
> "It seems relatively innocuous," he said. "Once we have all the facts, we'll be happy to explain a little bit further on why that was chosen." ...



Probably not the first time that a criminal offense was described as innocuous, but with the cluster***k that is the current state of the military justice system his explanation, when/if it comes, may not include what charges are being preferred.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/page-82.html#docCont


> Counterfeiting mark
> 
> (2) *Every one who, without lawful authority,
> 
> ...


----------



## Kilted (14 Oct 2020)

Aren't things like that normally supposed to say "training material" or something like that on them. From an IA point of view, this is a Black PSYOP which Canada doesn't take part it. I wonder how this was supposed to fit into the larger training picture.


----------



## GR66 (14 Oct 2020)

Kilted said:
			
		

> Aren't things like that normally supposed to say "training material" or something like that on them. From an IA point of view, this is a Black PSYOP which Canada doesn't take part it. I wonder how this was supposed to fit into the larger training picture.



It would only say "training material" if it actually WAS only training material...

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:


----------



## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2020)

GR66 said:
			
		

> It would only say "training material" if it actually WAS only training material...
> 
> :Tin-Foil-Hat:




_`There are no wolves in Kings County'_


----------



## blacktriangle (14 Oct 2020)

Perhaps this is part of some "insider threat" plot to discredit the CAF. Although the CAF tends to do a pretty good job of discrediting itself. Isn't there some saying about not attributing to malice...?


----------



## Pelorus (14 Oct 2020)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/5-canadian-division/the-halifax-rifles/index.page



Without knowing much about the Army Reserve, I'm kind of surprised that the "Mission Task" description is so direct (perhaps pulled directly from a higher level directive?), without any PAFO polishing to make it seem less intimidating to the general public. People are understandably quite skittish about this sort of thing.

Second, I'm surprised that this exercise was approved as-is given the recent controversy on a very similar topic within CJOC that made national news. It's not difficult to develop a basic exercise scenario with fictional geographic locations and geopolitical entities to avoid any confusion should some of the material make it to an unintended audience.

Link deleted as it is against site policy. - Harris Apologies, neglected to check the author as I didn't realize that the Chronicle Herald syndicated articles from them. My bad. - Me


----------



## Weinie (14 Oct 2020)

Boot,

Sending a PM


----------



## The Bread Guy (14 Oct 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> _`There are no wolves in Kings County'_


T-shirt right there, maybe?  ;D


			
				boot12 said:
			
		

> ... I'm kind of surprised that the "Mission Task" description is so direct (perhaps pulled directly from a higher level directive?), without any PAFO polishing to make it seem less intimidating to the general public. People are understandably quite skittish about this sort of thing ...


I don't know how the CF info-machine works precisely, but having worked in other government info-machines, I'm going to guess what ended up online is what "The System" wanted there.  As always, I stand to be corrected, and any system led and run by humans can see feces occur, but I know how I'd bet my loonie.


----------



## CBH99 (15 Oct 2020)

Silly question, but I am not familiar with this part of the country.

Are there not wolves already in the wild around this area?


----------



## Kat Stevens (15 Oct 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> Silly question, but I am not familiar with this part of the country.
> 
> Are there not wolves already in the wild around this area?



There used to be, but the rats ate them all.


----------



## Journeyman (15 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> According to Public affairs this was not supposed to be part of the training and are now investigating what is going on at the unit in question.....


Step aside chain of command, the Spanish Inquisition Public Affairs has got this!!    anic:


----------



## Eye In The Sky (15 Oct 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> Silly question, but I am not familiar with this part of the country.
> 
> Are there not wolves already in the wild around this area?



NS?  Nope.  https://wildlifepark.novascotia.ca/animals/gray-wolf.asp


----------



## OldSolduer (15 Oct 2020)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Step aside chain of command, the Spanish Inquisition Public Affairs has got this!!    anic:



No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

There - got it in - Thanks Journeyman!!!


----------



## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2020)

NavyShooter said:
			
		

> I feel sorry for the CO of the base at Aldershot...how do you rebuild relations with the community after something like this?


I feel really bad for him, too.     

I guess he needs to go door to door and leave some letters telling people that there are *NO* wolves coming!


----------



## Eye In The Sky (15 Oct 2020)

Actually, the Cmdt of the Camp would technically have nothing to do with this.  He would be more like a (mini) Base Commander in Halifax, responsible for infrastructure etc but not lodger units at the Camp.  He isn't part of, or responsible to, the 36CBG Comd/CofC.


----------



## vonGarvin (15 Oct 2020)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Actually, the Cmdt of the Camp would technically have nothing to do with this.  He would be more like a (mini) Base Commander in Halifax, responsible for infrastructure etc but not lodger units at the Camp.  He isn't part of, or responsible to, the 36CBG Comd/CofC.


Accurate AF.


----------



## daftandbarmy (15 Oct 2020)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Actually, the Cmdt of the Camp would technically have nothing to do with this.  He would be more like a (mini) Base Commander in Halifax, responsible for infrastructure etc but not lodger units at the Camp.  He isn't part of, or responsible to, the 36CBG Comd/CofC.



So what you're saying is he would likely be doing 'The Matrix weave' as the incoming zooms past?


----------



## The Bread Guy (15 Oct 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> So what you're saying is he would likely be doing 'The Matrix weave' as the incoming zooms past?


I was thinking more like feeling the sonic boom of the bombing run 3-4 km away, but six of one ....


----------



## Eye In The Sky (15 Oct 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> So what you're saying is he would likely be doing 'The Matrix weave' as the incoming zooms past?



 :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUC7wx8aFM


----------



## The Bread Guy (22 Oct 2020)

This from the "a few weiners ruin it for all the keeners" file ....


> After the bizarre incident of a Canadian military training psyop involving a mocked letter about a fictitious pack of invading wolves and a loudspeaker playing taped howls went viral for its mistaken exposure to civilians, the head of the defense department has halted all training of “influence activities” for Canadian soldiers pending a formal investigation of the matter.
> 
> “I was extremely concerned about the creation of the letter by 36 Canadian Brigade Group,” said Minister Harjit Sajjan, the head of Canada’s Department of National Defence, in an email to VICE News. “Though training our Canadian Armed Forces members on how best to respond to foreign actors who use influence activities, the creation of this letter was wrong and should never have occurred.”
> 
> “To ensure that a mistake like this does not happen again, I have directed the Canadian Army to pause training related to these sort of influence activities until the conclusion of the investigation,” he said ...


----------



## Remius (22 Oct 2020)

It’s not like we didn’t see that one coming.


Couple this with the story about using IA for COVID messaging and you have a real PR issue here.


----------



## daftandbarmy (22 Oct 2020)

Remius said:
			
		

> It’s not like we didn’t see that one coming.
> 
> 
> Couple this with the story about using IA for COVID messaging and you have a real PR  _leadership _issue here.



FTFY


----------



## Haggis (22 Oct 2020)

Defund the CAF!

Oh, wait.... that's happened already.

Defund the, ummmm, wolves!


----------



## brihard (22 Oct 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Defund the CAF!
> 
> Oh, wait.... that's happened already.
> 
> Defund the, ummmm, wolves!



Leave 33 brigade out of this.


----------



## dapaterson (22 Oct 2020)

I found this actual recording of Commander, 36 CBG.

https://youtu.be/ORvkElqw0QM?t=23


----------



## CBH99 (22 Oct 2020)

I realize I'm probably missing a key element in this, or maybe this is just one of the issues that I didn't recognize the seriousness of.  Either way, I apologize if the following sounds ignorant.


But...what is the HUGE deal here?

-  The military was conducting some sort of training in regards to how to handle foreign actors using influence activities against us (Which has already happened in the Ukraine and Latvia, via Russia.  As well as a never ending campaign via China)

-  A fake document was drafted as part of the training

-  It was accidentally distributed to A FEW HOUSEHOLDS in a remote part of Nova Scotia

-  Both departments immediately addressed the issue, acknowledged it was training purposes, and distributed accidentally.  Both departments reassured the public that wolves were not in fact released into the wild surrounding their community



We aren't talking 80 wolves.  Or 800 wolves.  We're talking 8.  EIGHT.  Eight freaking wolves -- none of which were actually real.


The unit responsible already acknowledged it was a simple training exercise, apologized for accidentally distributing it to a few households, and has already apologized & stated they will review their training procedures so the issue doesn't happen again in the future.  Seems to be a one off.  


Isn't it time to move on from this already??   


 :2c:


----------



## dapaterson (22 Oct 2020)

No.  One does not create, even for training purposes, documents targeting Canada and Canadians.  That should not need to be said.


----------



## brihard (22 Oct 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> I realize I'm probably missing a key element in this, or maybe this is just one of the issues that I didn't recognize the seriousness of.  Either way, I apologize if the following sounds ignorant.
> 
> 
> But...what is the HUGE deal here?
> ...



I think it touches on some pretty deep sensitivities around how our military uses information in an age of _dis_information, and general skepticism towards the good faith of the government, and of its coercive arms. 

All of us here are possessed of the knowledge and experience to know to chalk this up to little more than _Troops Are Dumb_, but to the public they see the military - an opaque and often incomprehensible organization - engaging in deliberate information operations versus Canadians. They don't care about the intent, they care about the results, and the degree of _immediate_ transparency.

On the military side, a handful of phone calls and a handful of hours would have arrived at the coarse truth of this, enough so that someone could get ahead of this and say flatly "Mistakes were made in the course of training, and we take ownership of that. Here's what went wrong, as exactly as we can tell right now. We'll be back to you soon, once we have more detail, to tell you exactly how it won't happen again". 

We are living in paranoid times, and people will be quick to believe or suspect the worst - or at least to not rule it out as implausible. To us on this site, this is a fantastic 'that guy' story. To the general public, it's dark and suspicious and nefarious, and the onus is on the military to work hard to correct that.

Anything resembling state propaganda in a liberal democracy can and should be scrutinized heavily. In this case, it was very literally state propaganda, absent 'EXERCISE EXERCISE EXERCISE' along the top. Rookie mistake, but one with strategic consequences for CAF's domestic image.


----------



## vonGarvin (22 Oct 2020)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qae25976UgA


----------



## lenaitch (22 Oct 2020)

Not too sure about the "remote" part.  King's County is ~60K pop, has CFB Greenwood, a university and several towns.  Aldershot is only a couple of klics north of Kentville.  Do we even know how many letters were sent out?


----------



## vonGarvin (22 Oct 2020)

lenaitch said:
			
		

> Do we even know how many letters were sent out?


No.  I'm sure the investigation will determine that.


----------



## Jarnhamar (22 Oct 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No.  One does not create, even for training purposes, documents targeting Canada and Canadians.  That should not need to be said.



I'm pretty biased. Anytime I've been on exercise with the IA teams they've driven around and behaved like assholes and were untouchable. As in out of play so they spend all night dicking you around but you can't do anything about them.

Think you hit a great point. Canadians should never be targeted.


----------



## ballz (22 Oct 2020)

I have the same bias, for the same reason. There's not too many people sitting around upset that they won't have IA attachments on exercise with them for a while. Every time I had to work with them I would have traded them for an extra mag charger.


----------



## Remius (22 Oct 2020)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I'm pretty biased. Anytime I've been on exercise with the IA teams they've driven around and behaved like assholes and were untouchable. As in out of play so they spend all night dicking you around but you can't do anything about them.
> 
> Think you hit a great point. Canadians should never be targeted.



Yep. Especially your first para.


----------



## Remius (22 Oct 2020)

ballz said:
			
		

> I have the same bias, for the same reason. There's not too many people sitting around upset that they won't have IA attachments on exercise with them for a while. Every time I had to work with them I would have traded them for an extra mag charger.



Me too.  It’s like you, Jarnhammer and I have all seen the same movie or something.


----------



## Jarnhamar (22 Oct 2020)

Remius said:
			
		

> Me too.  It’s like you, Jarnhammer and I have all seen the same movie or something.



If you watched a young IA cpl and mcpl attempt to critique a major's company defensive position in front of higher up's during an AAR it was the same ex


----------



## blacktriangle (22 Oct 2020)

For those of us who haven't really paid attention to CAF IA...is this just an evolution of the old PSYOPS/CIMIC "Tactical Operator"?

Thanks.


----------



## MilEME09 (23 Oct 2020)

reveng said:
			
		

> For those of us who haven't really paid attention to CAF IA...is this just an evolution of the old PSYOPS/CIMIC "Tactical Operator"?
> 
> Thanks.



The two are considered two different entities now, and IA is once again under going another restructure. that said this sounds like IA Coy`s analyst's and officers may of gone a bit to far, and made mistakes.


----------



## blacktriangle (23 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> The two are considered two different entities now, and IA is once again under going another restructure. that said this sounds like IA Coy`s analyst's and officers may of gone a bit to far, and made mistakes.



I seem to remember them as distinctly different roles, but wasn't sure if they'd been merged under "IA". Lots of PRes used to jump on tours doing CIMIC, PSYOPS, but most of the rank and file never really seemed clear on what they did, or would confuse them with source handlers/interrogators etc. Didn't these at one point fall under the "Area Troops" before the whole division debacle came about? Regardless, I have no doubt some filling these roles did good work in Afghanistan, I just sort of stopped hearing about it after that...

We live in a world that could no doubt benefit from IA capabilities, although I just don't get why they need to focus on handing out stupid flyers instead of focusing on the digital realm (like our adversaries do, 24/7/365) Is there any focus on that? Or just "boots on the ground"?

I'm pretty sure there's at least one person on here who is well versed in this stuff (and if you are reading this, I've always enjoyed your posts...)


----------



## MilEME09 (23 Oct 2020)

CIMIC and PSYOPs are two sides of the same coin under the IA Umbrella. CIMIC more deals with the civil military cooperation side of a conflict. Psyops deals more on the military capabilities.


Example used from maple resolve last year. At the start of the EX the head of IA coy asked what the civilian price of a cow, a chicken, and a goat were and got a good laugh thats it. Fast forward a few days and a convoy had killed a farmers 5 cows, the farmer was now demanding 5 million in compensation. IA knew that the price per cow was only a few thousand, questioning why he wanted so much, psyops operators figures out that the civilian was funding insurgent activity against coalition forces and was an enemy SF informant.

Meanwhile CIMIC teams were going village to village and figuring out the needs of the towns and how helping towns may resolve conflict.


Its a lot more complicated then this but a lot of there work is behind the scenes.


----------



## CBH99 (23 Oct 2020)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I think it touches on some pretty deep sensitivities around how our military uses information in an age of _dis_information, and general skepticism towards the good faith of the government, and of its coercive arms.
> 
> All of us here are possessed of the knowledge and experience to know to chalk this up to little more than _Troops Are Dumb_, but to the public they see the military - an opaque and often incomprehensible organization - engaging in deliberate information operations versus Canadians. They don't care about the intent, they care about the results, and the degree of _immediate_ transparency.
> 
> ...




Well said Brihard, thanks.  Helps put it in a different perspective for me.


----------



## Remius (23 Oct 2020)

That was well said.  Reminds me of those “what my family thinks I do, what my friends think I do, what the public thinks I do and what I really do” memes.


----------



## daftandbarmy (23 Oct 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> CIMIC and PSYOPs are two sides of the same coin under the IA Umbrella. CIMIC more deals with the civil military cooperation side of a conflict. Psyops deals more on the military capabilities.
> 
> 
> Example used from maple resolve last year. At the start of the EX the head of IA coy asked what the civilian price of a cow, a chicken, and a goat were and got a good laugh thats it. Fast forward a few days and a convoy had killed a farmers 5 cows, the farmer was now demanding 5 million in compensation. IA knew that the price per cow was only a few thousand, questioning why he wanted so much, psyops operators figures out that the civilian was funding insurgent activity against coalition forces and was an enemy SF informant.
> ...



Which leads me to ask the question why reservists are filling a role like this in the first place, outside of an operational environment, unless someone at a higher level is off their rocker. Or can't find enough Reg F resources to justify the continuing existence of a specific capability like, you know, the Mortar Platoon  :

There's enough to do, on the armoury floor, mastering section attacks, gun drills etc.


----------



## The Bread Guy (23 Oct 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Which leads me to ask the question why reservists are filling a role like this in the first place, outside of an operational environment, unless someone at a higher level is off their rocker.


Going WAY back (2005) here, and I'd love to hear anything more current, but previous discussion around these parts indicates that was (at least _said_ to be) done because _"Reservists would be able to "straddle the fence" between the military and the civilians, being both themselves, and having the mindset to work in both worlds."_

That said, there's the other side, too ...


> ... Considering that almost everybody in the RegF relates to civilians every day, and that most of us live in civilian communities and not in PMQs, and that many of us belong to civilian clubs, groups, teams, volunteer fire depts,etc, and that the great majority of us went to school, high school or beyond with civilians, I think it is a bit inaccurate, if not to say unfair, to depict RegF soldiers as some kind of aliens who cannot relate to civilians in other countries. It is IMHO equally inaccurate to depict Res soldiers as being somehow posessed of divinely-given qualities that only they posess in order to do CIMIC.
> 
> It is worth remembering that until we began to formalize CIMIC as a Res job in the early part of this century, the CIMIC task was performed on every Roto by RegF soldiers. CIMIC is not a new invention discovered by LFRR. Sometimes it was just done by the coys/sqns/btys themselves, then later we started to create CIMIC cells for the Rotos. In all cases we did good work, and lots of it.
> 
> ...


I think Brihard hit the nail on the head - there'll be dummies in any org chart, and it only takes a few to make mistakes to make the enterprise look bad, so to me, a big part of it comes back to what D&B also said about "leadership" needing to be weilded.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (24 Oct 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I found this actual recording of Commander, 36 CBG.
> 
> https://youtu.be/ORvkElqw0QM?t=23



I don't think he's on here, but I think he'd get a chuckle out of that (he was my Tp Ldr 20-some years ago...).  I also know the RSM of the Rifles, and can almost picture the look on his face when he found out.   ;D


----------



## Cloud Cover (24 Oct 2020)

Next time they should use Krakens instead of Wolves.


----------



## dapaterson (24 Oct 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> Next time they should use Krakens instead of Wolves.



That would be naval, not army, info ops...


----------



## brihard (24 Oct 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> That would be naval, not army, info ops...



Might the IA world be due for a bit of naval-gazing?


----------



## daftandbarmy (24 Oct 2020)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Might the IA world be due for a bit of naval-gazing?



 :rofl:

Although I think what you've described is a Tim Horton's donut


----------



## CBH99 (24 Oct 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> Next time they should use Krakens instead of Wolves.




If it is for training purposes, I'm all for the use of Werewolves.   :nod:

Since it doesn't change the outcome of the training being done, as the troops know it's for training - and if something like this happens again, the Army can far more easily say brush it off as a training exercise.


The same way we regularly engage forces from "Imaginationstan".


----------



## Weinie (24 Oct 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> Next time they should use Krakens instead of Wolves.



We tried using CRCN...didn't work out so well.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (26 Oct 2020)

No need for my 'spec fire'; comments removed.  Issued myself a verbal warning.   rly:


----------



## Kilted (17 Aug 2021)

A news agency that we aren't allowed to name here has come out and claimed that the distribution of the flyers happened after a soldier who didn't know that they were fake sent a picture to his wife who then shared them with her friends, and it went on from there.  They also referred to the PSYOPS team as a propaganda team.


----------



## Weinie (18 Aug 2021)

Kilted said:


> A news agency that we aren't allowed to name here has come out and claimed that the distribution of the flyers happened after a soldier who didn't know that they were fake sent a picture to his wife who then shared them with her friends, and it went on from there.  They also referred to the PSYOPS team as a propaganda team.


I have been dealing with this issue, and associated stuff for the last 18 months. Countering this narrative garners no support.


----------



## Maxman1 (21 Aug 2021)

Something I've been wondering, since the Halifax Rifles are an armoured recce unit, is a private there a Trooper or a Rifleman?


----------



## Harris (21 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> Something I've been wondering, since the Halifax Rifles are an armoured recce unit, is a private there a Trooper or a Rifleman?


Trooper.


----------



## Good2Golf (21 Aug 2021)

Harris said:


> Trooper.


Leave it to the Army to out-confuse the RCAF with its Aviator who doesn’t fly aircraft.  😉


----------



## Maxman1 (21 Aug 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Leave it to the Army to out-confuse the RCAF with its Aviator who doesn’t fly aircraft.  😉



Maybe someday we'll go back to proper Air Force ranks, with Pilot Officers who aren't pilots, Flying Officers and Flight Lieutenants who don't fly, Squadron Leaders who don't lead a squadron and Wing Commanders who don't command a wing.


----------



## trigger324 (22 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> Maybe someday we'll go back to proper Air Force ranks, with Pilot Officers who aren't pilots, Flying Officers and Flight Lieutenants who don't fly, Squadron Leaders who don't lead a squadron and Wing Commanders who don't command a wing.


I wouldn’t rule that out if the Cons win the election


----------



## Maxman1 (23 Aug 2021)

And return (for the second time) to pips and crowns for General officers, instead of a bunch of maple leaves.


----------



## Eaglelord17 (23 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> And return (for the second time) to pips and crowns for General officers, instead of a bunch of maple leaves.


Or even better return to the simple, easy to use and identify, unification ranks which we spent about as much time under as all the older ranks.


----------



## daftandbarmy (23 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> And return (for the second time) to pips and crowns for General officers, instead of a bunch of maple leaves.



I dunno.... 

I kind of like the Leafs ... the kind on the shoulder boards that is, not in the hockey rink  ).


----------



## Maxman1 (24 Aug 2021)

Eaglelord17 said:


> Or even better return to the simple, easy to use and identify, unification ranks which we spent about as much time under as all the older ranks.



You mean the thin and slightly thicker lines that blend together past four feet? Whereas pips and crowns are infantry-proof.



daftandbarmy said:


> I dunno....
> 
> I kind of like the Leafs ... the kind on the shoulder boards that is, not in the hockey rink  ).



I find it looks a tad busy and too American.


----------



## Eaglelord17 (24 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> You mean the thin and slightly thicker lines that blend together past four feet? Whereas pips and crowns are infantry-proof.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it looks a tad busy and too American.


All I can say is I never mistook a officer for a warrant under the old system. You see bars it doesn't matter you salute and call sir or mam. The old system worked and was often complimented by other nations for how simple and effective it was. I never heard a complaint about them other than the fact they 'aren't the pips and crowns'.


----------



## Maxman1 (24 Aug 2021)

Eaglelord17 said:


> All I can say is I never mistook a officer for a warrant under the old system.



And I've never mistaken a Major for a Warrant, or vice versa, under the current system.



> The old system worked



And so did the system before that, which worked for a century at that point and was used through *four* (4) wars and multiple UN deployments.


----------



## dangerboy (24 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> And I've never mistaken a Major for a Warrant, or vice versa, under the current system.


I have seen it happen a lot when working with our NATO allies.


----------



## Weinie (24 Aug 2021)

dangerboy said:


> I have seen it happen a lot when working with our NATO allies.


Under the pips and Crown system, several years back, I was mistaken for a Warrant Officer by the kid behind the counter where I was ordering coffee. As it turned out, he was a former Army cadet and was happy to pronounce" Here's your coffee Warrant." When I explained that I was a Major, he was mortified. I felt terrible, and tried to explain that the new system fucked things up (didn't use that verbiage)


----------



## ModlrMike (25 Aug 2021)

I was saluted several times while in Banja Luka as a PO1.


----------



## FJAG (25 Aug 2021)

I guess this is a little like the old WordPerfect and MS Word debate where whatever you used first is the thing you fought to the death for.

I first started with pips albeit very briefly before having to change to rings - always hated the things - made us all look like air force. Retired just before the Army switched back. Regretted missing out on that.

Never had any problems distinguishing a warrant officer from a major when the warrants were staff sergeants. Never could understand that change either.


----------



## tomydoom (25 Aug 2021)

FJAG said:


> I guess this is a little like the old WordPerfect and MS Word debate where whatever you used first is the thing you fought to the death for.
> 
> I first started with pips albeit very briefly before having to change to rings - always hated the things - made us all look like air force. Retired just before the Army switched back. Regretted missing out on that.
> 
> Never had any problems distinguishing a warrant officer from a major when the warrants were staff sergeants. Never could understand that change either.


You just reminded me of how much I miss Word Perfect.


----------

