# CFAT Question Re: Ambiguous Questions/Answers



## RyanHealy29 (7 Jan 2013)

Hi all,
Just a quick introduction. My name's Ryan and I'm in the process of readying myself to apply for DEO upon my graduation this spring. I've been contemplating this move for years, and as a result I've spent a ton of time lurking on these forums and reading the threads that relate to the millions of questions I've had about it over the years. It's a really great resource, so thanks to all who contribute.

My current question regards the CFAT. Let me start by saying that I fully understand that discussion of the nature of the CFAT is a big no-no, and so if this question crosses that line of what can and cannot be discussed, then I offer my apologies. However, if it's something that anyone can safely shed some light on without breaking the rules, I'd greatly appreciate it. (Also: I have done a search! ;D )

So basically, in preparation for writing the CFAT (which at this point is still worlds away), I've purchased a book called "Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections, and Security Exams" by PublicServicePrep. After doing the practice eCFAT, I've found that some of the questions I've got wrong, I have in fact (at least as far as I've concerned), got right. 

An example directly from the book: "If people spend two thirds of their life awake, how many years would one spend sleeping if one lived to be 85 years old?" Possible answers: a) 24, b) 26, c) 28, d) none of the above.

I took one look at this question, was able to clearly see the answer would not be a round number, and so didn't think twice about selecting d) none of the above.

Yet, much to my surprise, according to the answer sheet, the answer is c) 28. It goes on to exlain, "If a person spends two thirds of their life awake, they must spend 1/3 of their life asleep. All you have to do is divide 85 by 3. One would sleep 28 years (85/3 = 28.3)"

Now, this concerns me. 28.3 and 28 are not the same number. If the question was looking for an answer in closest whole year, it really should have said so. The spatial problems also had a few answers like this, where two different shapes could both technically be correct.

My question is, if and when I do get the chance to go in and write the CFAT, does this kind of ambiguity actually show up on it in spots? I hate the idea of going in and writing the test and getting a question like the one outlined above wrong. 

I hope this doesn't seem overly anal. I'm pretty sure the problem here is with the quality of my book, but I just want to be sure. If, in fact, I can expect this kind of thing on the real test, then I'll have to train myself to approach things a little differently. 

Again, if this is across the line of what can and can't be discussed, I apologize. 

Thanks,
Ryan Healy


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## PiperDown (7 Jan 2013)

You may be reading too much into what the question requires.

I easily answered C)  28.   The question asked for years. Not years and months.   It's like telling someone your age.  We don't normally give the months and years.   

I can't recall if the CFAT has any "trick" questions.  It's been quite some time since I wrote it.


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## Alex10370 (8 Jan 2013)

I recently wrote my CFAT (Passed perfectly fine) and Without getting into spesific examples of questions you shouldnt have any trouble regarding "ambiguous questions."  if you do the question correctly the answer will be clear.


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## Gunshark (8 Jan 2013)

Ryan,

Read very carefully, word for word, the instructions provided on forces.ca and in the practice test regarding the CFAT, and you will be able to determine how to best prepare yourself.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#step3-3

Best of luck.


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## RyanHealy29 (8 Jan 2013)

Thanks for all the replies thus far everyone. 

PiperDown,
You may be right that I'm reading in too much, but that's what I'm worried about. Technically speaking, 28.3 is a completely valid answer, and mathematically, MORE correct than 28, thus on any test I've ever taken in University in business or in Aero Eng, d) would be the correct answer. I hate the idea of missing marks (marks that I may end up needing), because I gave an answer that was too "specifically correct" on a math section of a test.

Alex10370,
Thanks for the reply. Good to know you feel the questions were all perfectly straightforward. This prep book got me a bit worried, but it's a bit of a sloppy book to begin with, so I'm thinking I shouldn't get worked up over this kind of thing. 

Gunshark,
Thanks also for taking the time to reply! Believe me, I've poured over all of that stuff a million times. I've taken the practice CFAT a number of times, but from what I've always heard, while it gives an idea of the type of questions, it's significantly easier than the real thing, hence my desire to find some more prep materials. 

I appreciate all the responses thus far. If anyone else has anything they'd like to say on the topic, I'd still love to hear everyones thoughts.

Cheers,
Ryan


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## Gunshark (8 Jan 2013)

> PiperDown,
> You may be right that I'm reading in too much, but that's what I'm worried about. Technically speaking, 28.3 is a completely valid answer, and mathematically, MORE correct than 28, thus on any test I've ever taken in University in business or in Aero Eng, d) would be the correct answer. I hate the idea of missing marks (marks that I may end up needing), because I gave an answer that was too "specifically correct" on a math section of a test.



Ok I'll offer some logical insight here. ;D

Your point here is well taken. Believe me, I understand, I have an engineering degree. ;D However, try to open your mind about this specific question. You WERE asked for number of YEARS, so while there was no 28.3 on the answer key, the idea of defaulting to the lowest full number of years certainly has merit. In fact, it is a completely true and valid statement to say that you sleep for 28 years, because that is the most complete number of full years after all. The additional 0.3 cannot be called a year, technically speaking.

You say that mathematically 85/3=28.3. Yes, that is what your calculator gives you, and in fact a lot more 3s. But according to the rules of significant figures, I don't believe that 85/3=28.3 is correct, because your answer suddenly includes more significant digits than the numbers involved in the calculation. I could be wrong, and the concept of significant digits is a bit of an abstract one, but I thought I'd just mention it anyway.

Finally, forgetting all mathematics, it should be taken as a clue that NONE of the possible answers had a decimal. If they were expecting you to look for an answer with a decimal point, it is likely they would insert a decimal in some or all of the possible answers, whether they are correct or not. I think that's a reasonable assumption, based on whatever experience I have with multiple choice.

With all that being said, there IS a bit of ambiguity in this question. But don't ever fixate yourself on any one question. It's not worth your time and will take away your focus from the rest of the test, be it CFAT or anything else. I'm sure you've already heard this advice in school a million times. And guess what, it's sound advice!



> Gunshark,
> Thanks also for taking the time to reply! Believe me, I've poured over all of that stuff a million times. I've taken the practice CFAT a number of times, but from what I've always heard, while it gives an idea of the type of questions, it's significantly easier than the real thing, hence my desire to find some more prep materials.



I've actually put thought into what to include in my reply, and while I realize you must have read what's on the CF website already, the point I wanted to get across is that you should treat those instructions as your primary ones. They summarize what to expect, quantity of questions etc, how much time you will be given, and how to best prepare. Re-read again carefully what kind of questions to expect on the test. The reason I cannot say more is because I am not at liberty to, as you know. However, feel free to browse CFAT threads on this forum.

But I'll say this. It looks like you're determined and have the right attitude, as in you want to do well pretty badly. That's awesome, that's the right attitude to have, keep it for the rest of your application process and beyond. It looks like you're already making a good effort to prepare yourself. Just keep doing what you're doing. For my prep, I read instructions, did the practice test, reviewed high school math and did a couple of aptitude/iq tests online with questions similar in nature to those in the practice test. I seem to have done ok.

Remember there are no calculators allowed.

Good luck!


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## RyanHealy29 (8 Jan 2013)

Gunshark said:
			
		

> Ok I'll offer some logical insight here. ;D
> 
> Your point here is well taken. Believe me, I understand, I have an engineering degree. ;D However, try to open your mind about this specific question. You WERE asked for number of YEARS, so while there was no 28.3 on the answer key, the idea of defaulting to the lowest full number of years certainly has merit. In fact, it is a completely true and valid statement to say that you sleep for 28 years, because that is the most complete number of full years after all. The additional 0.3 cannot be called a year, technically speaking.
> 
> ...



Brilliant post!

Loved the insight into the example question and it basically confirms that I'm overthinking myself to a point that isn't logical. Your significant digits point is well taken and now that I think of it, you're absolutely right. The question has 2, and so an answer with only two is totally correct. So technically 28 is as correct, if not _more_ correct than 28.3 in the context of the question.

I also appreciate your kind words regarding attitude etc., 

Alright, so with the mystery of the .3 solved, I think it's safe to say that worrying about possible ambiguity in questions on the CFAT is a bit silly and a total waste of energy and brain power!

Mods, feel free to lock this one up if it doesn't serve any other purpose. Looks like it was born of a brain fart on my end!  :facepalm:

Thanks again,
Ryan


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## BeyondTheNow (8 Jan 2013)

I had to chuckle while reading everyone's post following your example of the math question from your text. I had to sit here...blankly...and stare...rusted gears spinning...the squeaking and grinding clearly audible...then sit in awe as all of you clearly had no trouble deciphering the correct answer.  

If it helps to quell your concerns, I am probably the most right-brained dominant individual in the world. English, Art, Phys-ed, Music, I'm set!  If you stick anything even remotely resembling a math equation in front of me, I panic!   I was really worried about the test, because my math skills are so weak. So if I can pass, you absolutely can! There was nothing that I found tricky or confusing...just nerve-wracking in general in my specific case...you'll be fine! ;D


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## ModlrMike (9 Jan 2013)

The lesson here is ALWAYS DO THE MATH AND PICK THE OPTION CLOSEST TO YOUR ANSWER. Well explained 28 does not equal 28.3 posts are all well and good, but the foregoing is all you need to remember.


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## skyhigh10 (9 Jan 2013)

The CFAT was not deigned to be a tedious engineering feat. There are many different threads explaining what the logic is behind the test. I personally was very nervous and asked the same sort of in depth questions. Let's just say that after near months of preparation, the answers seemed beyond logical when looking at them.  Read the question.... *answer logically*. That had to have been the best advice anyone gave me.


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## Noctis (9 Jan 2013)

skyhigh10 said:
			
		

> Read the question.... *answer logically*


...
and go practice your vocabulary and spatial skills. Don't neglect those either!


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## Kat Stevens (9 Jan 2013)

Your answer is only valid if the data were collected on this person's birthday.  At any time during that year the answer would change.


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## Gunshark (9 Jan 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Your answer is only valid if the data were collected on this person's birthday.  At any time during that year the answer would change.



Hahah ok ok, it looks like I started something that can mislead people. I just went through the logic in detail because I have technical background myself and enjoy puzzles..and just wanted to show Ryan a different perspective on the question. I would _not_ suggest going through this kind of reasoning during CFAT. Instructions state how many questions you have to answer in how much time. Do the math. And prepare accordingly. Absolutely, practice for all sections of the test, not just math. Focus, apply logic, and don't overthink.


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