# Releasing from ROTP, and then reapplying



## Aesrin (28 Jun 2009)

Hello fellow forumers,
Before i get barraged with the "Read this" list, i have already read it, and i have searched elsewhere to find an answer to this question and have found none.
My situation is this: I applied last year to the ROTP program for a civilian university, and was instead offered RMC. I was fairly certain that the RMC lifestyle was not going to be for me, but i figured that the worst that could happen is that i release at the end of the year if things did not go well. As i thought, i did not find RMC to be a good learning environment for me, and i plan on releasing. My question is this: Would i be able to re-apply to ROTP civilian university after releasing? I still want to be in the military, i just can't stand studying at RMC. I would really like to continue my military career, and continue to get my degree at the same time. Is there any reason why i couldn't reapply this winter to ROTP?


----------



## chris_log (28 Jun 2009)

Aesrin said:
			
		

> Hello fellow forumers,
> Before i get barraged with the "Read this" list, i have already read it, and i have searched elsewhere to find an answer to this question and have found none.
> My situation is this: I applied last year to the ROTP program for a civilian university, and was instead offered RMC. I was fairly certain that the RMC lifestyle was not going to be for me, but i figured that the worst that could happen is that i release at the end of the year if things did not go well. As i thought, i did not find RMC to be a good learning environment for me, and i plan on releasing. My question is this: Would i be able to re-apply to ROTP civilian university after releasing? I still want to be in the military, i just can't stand studying at RMC. I would really like to continue my military career, and continue to get my degree at the same time. Is there any reason why i couldn't reapply this winter to ROTP?




Nothing is stopping you from applying again. I'm sure the recruiters will understand why you released (not wanting to be at RMC).


----------



## Aesrin (28 Jun 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Nothing is stopping you from applying again. I'm sure the recruiters will understand why you released (not wanting to be at RMC).



Thank you very much for the quick reply!


----------



## George Wallace (28 Jun 2009)

I don't understand why you want to Release and try your luck at the process again?  Why don't you just try to be transfered out of RMC to a Civi U?  See your Staff for advice, not some unknown person on the Internet.


----------



## chris_log (28 Jun 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't understand why you want to Release and try your luck at the process again?  Why don't you just try to be transfered out of RMC to a Civi U?  See your Staff for advice, not some unknown person on the Internet.



That's an option too...however, to be accepted into the civvie-u stream you have to be accepted to a university beforehand. So unless you've still got an acceptance to a school (or can get accepted before you apply) then you're going to be out of luck. 

You can also ask to serve out your time as an NCM (I know a couple of people who dropped out of ROTP and went on as an NCM) and then apply for the UTPNCM program. It wouldn't hurt to get some time as an NCM before you go the officer route.


Or, you can release and re-apply if your heart is set on ROTP at a civilian sechool (assuming you cannot transfer). 

You have plenty of options.


----------



## Aesrin (28 Jun 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't understand why you want to Release and try your luck at the process again?  Why don't you just try to be transfered out of RMC to a Civi U?  See your Staff for advice, not some unknown person on the Internet.


The first thing i spoke to my CoC about was trying to get transferred directly to a civilian university out of RMC and remain in the ROTP program, but on the lower levels of my chain i was told that was not an option. I wasn't extremely confident that this person had all the answers but you know how you can't bypass that wonderful CoC... 
If you have any more insight into this transfer process, i would greatly appreciate it!
As well, i already am accepted into Dalhousie for the next academic semester, and i have the letter of acceptance sitting at home.


----------



## George Wallace (28 Jun 2009)

Aesrin said:
			
		

> The first thing i spoke to my CoC about was trying to get transferred directly to a civilian university out of RMC and remain in the ROTP program, but on the lower levels of my chain i was told that was not an option. I wasn't extremely confident that this person had all the answers but you know how you can't bypass that wonderful CoC...
> If you have any more insight into this transfer process, i would greatly appreciate it!
> As well, i already am accepted into Dalhousie for the next academic semester, and i have the letter of acceptance sitting at home.



If you don't have confidence in that person's abilities or answer, try their superior.  You are still staying in the CoC and you can explain to the superior that you aren't satisfied with what you were told and could they show you and explain the policy.  I am sure that this has been done before, and vice versa.  

You may also drop in to a CFRC and casually inquire if they know the policies.


----------



## CFR FCS (28 Jun 2009)

Ask for an appointment with the BPSO to discuss your career options. The CFRC will not be able to help you as you are already "in the system". We only get you through the door. Have you completed BMOQ yet? That may make the difference in getting selected again. Also do not just speak to your chain of command send a formal memo up addressed to your CO. That way once you are refused you have a record that you tried to work within the system. 

Best of Luck.


----------



## Aesrin (29 Jun 2009)

CFR FCS said:
			
		

> Ask for an appointment with the BPSO to discuss your career options. The CFRC will not be able to help you as you are already "in the system". We only get you through the door. Have you completed BMOQ yet? That may make the difference in getting selected again. Also do not just speak to your chain of command send a formal memo up addressed to your CO. That way once you are refused you have a record that you tried to work within the system.
> 
> Best of Luck.





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> If you don't have confidence in that person's abilities or answer, try their superior.  You are still staying in the CoC and you can explain to the superior that you aren't satisfied with what you were told and could they show you and explain the policy.  I am sure that this has been done before, and vice versa.
> 
> You may also drop in to a CFRC and casually inquire if they know the policies.



Thank you both for your responses. I was re-coursed from BMOQ this summer halfway through it, as i was one of the lucky individuals at the 'Mega to come down with swine flu.
I have a meeting with RMC's Director of Cadets in a few days regarding my VR, so I guess i'll bring up the transfer with him. If he doesn't have the answer for me, i'll request an appointment with the BPSO before my release gets sent to Ottawa.
Thanks again!


----------



## chris_log (29 Jun 2009)

Aesrin said:
			
		

> Thank you both for your responses. I was re-coursed from BMOQ this summer halfway through it, as i was one of the lucky individuals at the 'Mega to come down with swine flu.
> I have a meeting with RMC's Director of Cadets in a few days regarding my VR, so I guess i'll bring up the transfer with him. If he doesn't have the answer for me, i'll request an appointment with the BPSO before my release gets sent to Ottawa.
> Thanks again!



Swine flu at St Jean?


----------



## Aesrin (29 Jun 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Swine flu at St Jean?


Now don't expect to see on CNN that a major military training facility is riddled with disease, but there have been several confirmed cases at the 'Mega since early may this year.


----------



## PMedMoe (29 Jun 2009)

Aesrin said:
			
		

> Now don't expect to see on CNN that a major military training facility is riddled with disease, but there have been several confirmed cases at the 'Mega since early may this year.



Confirmed as in laboratory tested or an "influenza-like illness" (ILI)?  If the latter, did they meet the case definition of "sudden onset with *fever* and cough"?  Without a fever, it's not the flu.  Although, I have to admit, it wouldn't surprise me at the Mega with the confined living quarters.


----------



## aesop081 (29 Jun 2009)

I have to ask.....

What is it about RMC that was not "for you" ?


----------



## Aesrin (29 Jun 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Confirmed as in laboratory tested or an "influenza-like illness" (ILI)?  If the latter, did they meet the case definition of "sudden onset with *fever* and cough"?  Without a fever, it's not the flu.  Although, I have to admit, it wouldn't surprise me at the Mega with the confined living quarters.


I was running a fever of 102.4, i was sweating and freezing cold in a warm room at the same time, i had backed up sinuses with a wicked wet cough etc. I was first brought to a civilian hospital where i was told (after 11 hours in an isolation chamber) that i may have contracted swine flu. I got the full test, 7 vials of blood, x-rays and all that jazz. I was wearing gloves and the mask at all times, and was put on the 10th floor of the 'Mega for isolation. A few days later, at a check back to the MIR, i was told that i did indeed have swine flu. This is more or less what happened to the other individuals who contracted the same illness.


			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I have to ask.....
> 
> What is it about RMC that was not "for you" ?


I'm sure i would incur hate from some of the members here and be unjustly ruled as some ungrateful bratty kid if i replied to that, so i will opt not to.


----------



## Otis (29 Jun 2009)

Aesrin said:
			
		

> Thank you both for your responses. I was re-coursed from BMOQ this summer halfway through it, as i was one of the lucky individuals at the 'Mega to come down with swine flu.
> I have a meeting with RMC's Director of Cadets in a few days regarding my VR, so I guess i'll bring up the transfer with him. If he doesn't have the answer for me, i'll request an appointment with the BPSO before my release gets sent to Ottawa.
> Thanks again!



As *I* understand 'the process' ... it IS someone in the CofC at RMC that makes the final call as to Whom is going to RMC and whom is going to CivviU ... so asking the Director of Cadets is probably the best way to approach the situation, with the best possibility of getting some sort of 'transfer' to CivvieU.

It's just my best guess, but with what I've seen at the CFRC, getting out and then trying to re-apply to ROTP is going to get you nothing but grief. Fairly or not, you will be assumed to be a 'quitter' and I question your ability to get back in to the ROTP program once you've dropped out once.

But again, that's just my opinion ... it really will depend on your CFRC, Interviewer and whomever is reading your ROTP application. I still recommend trying to stay in the program and just transfer to CivvieU.

Good Luck either way ...


----------



## aesop081 (1 Jul 2009)

Be forwarned, military life is what it is regardles of location or unit. If you didnt like RMC because of the structured life, theres alot you wont like after RMC.


----------



## observor 69 (1 Jul 2009)

Aesrin said:
			
		

> I was running a fever of 102.4, i was sweating and freezing cold in a warm room at the same time, i had backed up sinuses with a wicked wet cough etc. I was first brought to a civilian hospital where i was told (after 11 hours in an isolation chamber) that i may have contracted swine flu. I got the full test, 7 vials of blood, x-rays and all that jazz. I was wearing gloves and the mask at all times, and was put on the 10th floor of the 'Mega for isolation. A few days later, at a check back to the MIR, i was told that i did indeed have swine flu. This is more or less what happened to the other individuals who contracted the same illness.I'm sure i would incur hate from some of the members here and be unjustly ruled as some ungrateful bratty kid if i replied to that, so i will opt not to.



Just as an aside John Barry in his book The Great Influenza describes how influenza spread rapidly in crowded militry camps in WW1 :

"In 1918, a plague swept across the world virtually without warning, killing healthy young adults as well as vulnerable infants and the elderly. Hospitals and morgues were quickly overwhelmed; in Philadelphia, 4,597 people died in one week alone and bodies piled up on the streets to be carted off to mass graves. But this was not the dreaded Black Death-it was "only influenza." In this sweeping history, Barry (Rising Tide) explores how the deadly confluence of biology (a swiftly mutating flu virus that can pass between animals and humans) and politics (President Wilson's all-out war effort in WWI) created conditions in which the virus thrived, killing more than 50 million worldwide and perhaps as many as 100 million in just a year. Overcrowded military and wide-ranging troop deployments allowed the highly contagious flu to spread quickly; transport ships became "floating caskets." Yet the U.S. government refused to shift priorities away from the war and, in effect, ignored the crisis. Shortages of doctors and nurses hurt military and civilian populations alike, and the ineptitude of public health officials exacerbated the death toll. In Philadelphia, the hardest-hit municipality in the U.S., "the entire city government had done nothing" to either contain the disease or assist afflicted families. Instead, official lies and misinformation, Barry argues, created a climate of "fear... [that] threatened to break the society apart." Barry captures the sense of panic and despair that overwhelmed stricken communities and hits hard at those who failed to use their power to protect the public good. He also describes the work of the dedicated researchers who rushed to find the cause of the disease and create vaccines. Flu shots are widely available today because of their heroic efforts, yet we remain vulnerable to a virus that can mutate to a deadly strain without warning. Society's ability to survive another devastating flu pandemic, Barry argues, is as much a political question as a medical one. "


http://www.amazon.ca/Great-Influenza-Revised-John-Barry/dp/0143036491/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246446240&sr=1-1


----------



## Aesrin (1 Jul 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Be forwarned, military life is what it is regardles of location or unit. If you didnt like RMC because of the structured life, theres alot you wont like after RMC.


I'm aware of what military life is, and i love it to death. But unfortunately, it is not the right place for me to study for a degree.


----------



## SupersonicMax (1 Jul 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Be forwarned, military life is what it is regardles of location or unit. If you didnt like RMC because of the structured life, theres alot you wont like after RMC.



I don't agree with it at all.  I hated RMC's lifestyle to death.  Did not enjoy 1 bit of the military aspect.  And I do quite good on Squadron and I loved the military lifestyle the day I was posted out from RMC.


----------



## chris_log (1 Jul 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Be forwarned, military life is what it is regardles of location or unit. If you didnt like RMC because of the structured life, theres alot you wont like after RMC.



RMC is nothing like the rest of the CF. Go ask an RMC grad who gets posted into their first unit and see what their reaction is.


----------



## chris_log (1 Jul 2009)

Otis said:
			
		

> As *I* understand 'the process' ... it IS someone in the CofC at RMC that makes the final call as to Whom is going to RMC and whom is going to CivviU ... so asking the Director of Cadets is probably the best way to approach the situation, with the best possibility of getting some sort of 'transfer' to CivvieU.
> 
> It's just my best guess, but with what I've seen at the CFRC, getting out and then trying to re-apply to ROTP is going to get you nothing but grief. Fairly or not, you will be assumed to be a 'quitter' and I question your ability to get back in to the ROTP program once you've dropped out once.
> 
> ...



I don't think the Commandant or anyone else at RMC has any say over who goes to RMC and who doesn't. Thats what the recruiting system is for.


----------



## Otis (2 Jul 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> I don't think the Commandant or anyone else at RMC has any say over who goes to RMC and who doesn't. Thats what the recruiting system is for.



Nope, the Recruiting system decides who may join the CF ... we send all of the ROTP applications off to someone in the RMC CofC and they send back thier decision as to whom is going to RMC, CivvieU or isn't getting a ROTP offer.


----------



## chris_log (2 Jul 2009)

Otis said:
			
		

> Nope, the Recruiting system decides who may join the CF ... we send all of the ROTP applications off to someone in the RMC CofC and they send back thier decision as to whom is going to RMC, CivvieU or isn't getting a ROTP offer.



News to me. I didn't realise that RMC gets to decide whom receives the 'honour' of attending charm school. 

Are you sure it's RMC and not a different org? I went through ROTP but at no time was I under the control of RMC, it just seems odd that RMC decides whom attends and who doesn't instead. I realise you're a recruiter (according to your profile) and if anyone was aware it would be you, it just sounds odd to me.


----------



## Otis (2 Jul 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> News to me. I didn't realise that RMC gets to decide whom receives the 'honour' of attending charm school.
> 
> Are you sure it's RMC and not a different org? I went through ROTP but at no time was I under the control of RMC, it just seems odd that RMC decides whom attends and who doesn't instead. I realise you're a recruiter (according to your profile) and if anyone was aware it would be you, it just sounds odd to me.



I am currently a recruiter ... and no, I cannot say with 100% certainty that it is 'RMC' that makes the decision, I'd have to actually ask the clerks to confirm, but I DO know we fax all the ROTP application paperwork off to SOMEONE in the RMC / CFLRS / Training 'system' who then tells us who gets an offer for RMC, who gets offered CivU and who is unqualified / uncompetitive.

If it REALLY matters who exactly gets to make the decision, I can ask for you tomorrow at work ... maybe I AM mistaken and the actual decision is made by George Wallace.


----------

