# Am I too old, unfit or uncertain?



## Kublu_ (15 Apr 2017)

Hi there, 

I am just posting this to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation.  I'm 28 years old, have a college diploma and university degree.  I was a police officer in a large city for about two years.  I left the job a few months ago and will be travelling the world for about a year.  After returning, I'm thinking about joining a combat arms trade as an NCM for regular force (I was in primary reserves infantry for five years).

This is going to sound very very rude, but would I be wasting my time joining infantry or armoured after all this life experience?  I would like to go overseas but I hear there are not many opportunities at this time.  Has anyone else been in a similar situation and would like to share your experience?


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## Murdock (15 Apr 2017)

I joined as an NCM in my mid-late 20's with a solid educational and professional background. Completed basic training with a group of mostly teenagers and several my age or older. Nice mix of experience among everyone. There's some social barriers between working with such a young age group but when it comes down to our job, the young unskilled ones are just as efficient as anyone else including myself. 

It's interesting that you are asking after having previously been in the reserves for 5 years for the same trade. Anyway, I may understand what you're getting at when you say that you're concerned about "wasting your time". Compared to your previous job you would definitely be taking a pay cut so obviously NCM Infantry would have to be something that you really, truly want to do for work. However, if by "wasting your time" you're implying that infantry is below your skill-set that would simply be false, in my opinion. I'm not infantry or a police officer so take my advice with a grain of salt here but I feel pretty confident that policing and infantry are two totally different worlds in every aspect. So I mean, with no intended disrespect here, throw that ego out of the window and go into it with an open mind if it's truly what you want to do.


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## Ayrsayle (15 Apr 2017)

Depends on what you are trying to get out of it.

I joined when I was 27 (Infantry Officer, no previous military experience) and have had no regrets.  I'll probably never get as far as some of my younger peers in terms of rank, etc due to being older, but I didn't really join for a careerist reason.  You'll have a few advantages (ideally more mature, education is a bonus for NCM promotions, etc) but you'll also have less time to cover the same ground as your younger peers.

If you're looking for an overseas combat tour - those have always historically been random based on what the world is currently like at the time.  From when I joined til now however, there is an increasing demand for overseas tours to various locations in Europe which *seems* to be something that will continue for at least a few more years.

Only you are really going to be able to answer if it is a "waste" because you didn't really explain what would make it worthwhile.


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## Kublu_ (17 Apr 2017)

Murdock said:
			
		

> I joined as an NCM in my mid-late 20's with a solid educational and professional background. Completed basic training with a group of mostly teenagers and several my age or older. Nice mix of experience among everyone. There's some social barriers between working with such a young age group but when it comes down to our job, the young unskilled ones are just as efficient as anyone else including myself.
> 
> It's interesting that you are asking after having previously been in the reserves for 5 years for the same trade. Anyway, I may understand what you're getting at when you say that you're concerned about "wasting your time". Compared to your previous job you would definitely be taking a pay cut so obviously NCM Infantry would have to be something that you really, truly want to do for work. However, if by "wasting your time" you're implying that infantry is below your skill-set that would simply be false, in my opinion. I'm not infantry or a police officer so take my advice with a grain of salt here but I feel pretty confident that policing and infantry are two totally different worlds in every aspect. So I mean, with no intended disrespect here, throw that ego out of the window and go into it with an open mind if it's truly what you want to do.



I'm not too concerned with the pay cut and am expecting it.  The latter is what I had in mind, thinking that my skillset could be more useful elsewhere.  You're right that my ego is in the way here since I am comparing my past experience with the younger ones who will also be in the combat trade and will be performing the same duties as me.  I know that what I said makes me sound like a jerk, but I guess it's just ego.  Thank you for your insight.  I find it personally valuable  


@mariomike,  thank you for the links.  I will give them all a read.




			
				Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> Depends on what you are trying to get out of it.
> 
> I joined when I was 27 (Infantry Officer, no previous military experience) and have had no regrets.  I'll probably never get as far as some of my younger peers in terms of rank, etc due to being older, but I didn't really join for a careerist reason.  You'll have a few advantages (ideally more mature, education is a bonus for NCM promotions, etc) but you'll also have less time to cover the same ground as your younger peers.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input!


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## Primus (7 May 2017)

Hi everyone, 

I'm 35 and I've applied to the Reserves from Regular force initially. I had changed due to really enjoying my current small business that I'm running. 

Anywho, I've passed the CFat and I've passed my fitness test this past week. 
My recruiter at the reserve unit talked to me after the test because I applied for weapon and vehicle tech but my math back in the day doesn't calculate to the standards of today required to do the trades. My recruiter asked if I wanted to choose something else.

 I'm leaning for Mse op but I just wanted to challenge myself and go for something more exciting. 
I'm looking to get a feel to see if anyone in Infantry who has completed their Infantry DP1 for reserves saw anyone around my age do well. I can get pretty fit when I need to and don't really look my age but I don't feel I would fit in. Im just unsure. I know the CF doesn't really judge officially but just wondering unofficially,  if that makes any sense. 

I'd even consider an armoured soldier trade. Just looking for those who've been there and maybe seen individuals around my age.
Any info would be helpful and reassuring. 

Thank you 

[_Merged with the appropriate topic_]   kratz* - Staff*


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## Zombie (7 May 2017)

I got in at 32 as a Sig Op, then got out for a while and got back in to a different trade at 42 last year. Age has never been an issue. Fitting in or not has nothing to do with age.


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## Kkimlee4 (24 May 2017)

I am 30 years old and trying to join air force to become a pilot.

Being a pilot have been my long time dream goal but have not had a chance after finishing my university because of a financial problem. I believe i am ready to join now and was wondering if it is too late. Does anybody have any suggestions or comments on this? 

I understand that there are several different tests that I need to pass to get into pilot. When would I be expected to get paid  if I pass the tests and how long would it take for me to finish all the tests?

I appreciate any comments you guys give, please be honest as my career is pretty much depended on the decision i will make... 

Thank you so much!


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## CEDE NULLIS (19 Jun 2017)

Good thread here for us old folks keen on getting in. I’ve just applied to join as a DEO (Infantry) at the ripe old age of 32 after tossing the idea around for about the last 5 years. Very glad I have finally taken the plunge. 

I left the regular army in 2009 (British Army), moved back to Canada, did my BA and got into finance. I’ve applied as an overseas applicant as I’m currently living in London, working for a bank and doing a Master’s degree part-time (MSc War and Humanitarianism at Birkbeck, University of London) – which I will finish this time next year. 

If I am successful I imagine I’ll be 33/34 by the time I get to BMOQ. The officer world is foreign to me, but given my military experience I am fairly sure that with a good level of fitness and a positive attitude (no hangups about younger people telling you what to do, or chip on the shoulder due to operational experience), us older applicants should be fine. As an aside, the British Army is far stricter on maximum age requirements...

I get that a 36 year old platoon commander would be a rarity, but again if the fitness and attitude are on point I’m hoping it shouldn’t make that much of a difference. 

As for career development etc.? I know age will be a barrier in some respects, but the reason I want back “into the fold” is the prospect of a diverse career as an officer, including potential postings to NDHQ etc. down the line.

Anyway – good luck to all of the late-in-life applicants! Keep up the fitness!

Cheers.


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## da1root (20 Jun 2017)

CEDE NULLIS said:
			
		

> As for career development etc.? I know age will be a barrier in some respects


To be honest, age is only an issue if you let it be.  
As for the chip on the shoulder thing, no matter what occupation you join many people will always have someone younger than you or with less experience than you who can give you an order of what to do.


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## GnarlyDavidson (30 Aug 2017)

I did my BMQ in 1990 at the age of 17 for the reserves.   I only spent a year in my unit ( infantry). And I was just not prepared at that age to handle it.   But.  I'm ( a lot ) older now and not having any fun so I was interested in MSEOP with a reserve unit in my city.  Question is:  at 44 and having previous service would I still be eligible?I can still do drill and IA/stoppage on a C7!   Also anyone done MSEOP course?


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## EpicBeardedMan (30 Aug 2017)

GnarlyDavidson said:
			
		

> I did my BMQ in 1990 at the age of 17 for the reserves.   I only spent a year in my unit ( infantry). And I was just not prepared at that age to handle it.   But.  I'm ( a lot ) older now and not having any fun so I was interested in MSEOP with a reserve unit in my city.  Question is:  at 44 and having previous service would I still be eligible?I can still do drill and IA/stoppage on a C7!   Also anyone done MSEOP course?



You could re-enlist sure, but you'd have to do basic over again.


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## GnarlyDavidson (30 Aug 2017)

Fair enough eh?    Gotta get into a bit better shape but that's doable


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## da1root (30 Aug 2017)

Yes you can rejoin.  Within the PRes you can rejoin right up to 56/57 (I'm not a Reserve Recruiter so I can't remember whether it's 56 or 57).
As you did not reach OFP you would need to redo BMQ.
Best to reach out to the Service Battalion in your area to see if they need any MSE Op (I believe the Svc Bn's are the only PRes units that have MSE Op on their unit lines; again I might be wrong on that one, my specialty is RegF recruiting...)


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## GnarlyDavidson (30 Aug 2017)

Yes 41 Service Btn here in Calgary  are actively recruiting for a number of trades MSE op being one of them 

Do they still run BMQ on weekends?


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## commander-cb (29 Oct 2017)

Hello

I am now 50. I started my application , i think it was about 7 years ago - cfat / medical / interview and some other things.

I decided to reopen the application. I am trying not to get excited about it, it has already been a roller coaster ride.

I know I can do it, or at least keep pace with most of the lads. Physically things have fallen off a bit, I broke my wrist 3 months ago ( cycling )- and it is about 98% now. I still heal well and I feel spry.

Unfortunatly, the only occupation I am interested in is being a pilot. It is the only thing I have ever cared about. I don't think I qualified years ago, but strangly enough I might be qualified now.

I'm trying not to get too excited, but I can promise you - if there is even the tinyest crack - I will get through.

My physical performance is not in doubt.
While in training the last time around ( age ~43 ) I was able to attain the old USMC PFT score 280.
Yes - it is a true and accurate number. I did do that, and ~should~ be able to do it again.

I  can tell you what happens - you don't actually get old.
You are _constantly_ being told you are old, and you begin to believe it.
It seems to be more of a mental game. Staying motivated and determined can be a challenge.
________________________________

As a example, due to my "age" people will tell me that I can not, or should not work hard.

I hope I get a chance. I was told to do a couple things to demonstrate my reliability. I have completed those objectives to the best of my ability, and I expect to get a chance.

I don't know what else I can do to tip the scale. I believe I can still do it.
I am going for it. 

Tell me I'm wrong, or tell me what I need to do. ___ I am going to hack it.___


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## BeyondTheNow (5 Nov 2017)

I can’t say anything about you wanting to specifically be a pilot, but, I was on course with a gentleman who was 50. He had served some years before, then decided he wanted back in. I can’t recall his trade atm, but a woman on my sister pl was 48.

Anyway, all in all, I encountered quite a few recruits well over 40 during my time at CFLRS. It isn’t that uncommon these days. All the best and hopefully things work out for you.


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## mariomike (5 Nov 2017)

commander-cb said:
			
		

> ___ I am going to hack it.___



Let us know how it works out. Good luck.  

( Incidentally, commander-cb Date of first and so far only post: October 29, 2017 Last Active: October 29, 2017 )


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## Roger123 (6 Nov 2017)

How far along are you in the application process? Did you talk with a recruiter yet and was there any concern over your age?


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## da1root (15 Nov 2017)

commander-cb said:
			
		

> Unfortunatly, the only occupation I am interested in is being a pilot.



Just as a heads up your age may play a role in your preference at this stage.  You have stated that you're currently 50 years old, the initial terms of service for Pilot Direct Entry is 9 years and applicants must be able to fulfill their initial contract prior to reaching Compulsory Retirement Age (CRA) which is 60; so you have until your 51st birthday to complete the process and be enrolled.  Anything after your 51st birthday and you'd no longer be eligible for the Pilot occupation.

I'm not stating this to discourage you from trying for pilot; I'm only giving this information to assist in managing your expectations.

Cheers,
Buck_HRA


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## commander-cb (16 Nov 2017)

just received the invite.


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## kratz (16 Nov 2017)

Good for you. All the best in your process.

Reminder to all: This private site is not an official source.


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## wenetresults (16 Nov 2017)

8) commander-cb you can do it! I started Reg Forces BMQ St. Jean in 2011, but VR after 5 weeks due to injuries. I turn 44 at the end of November, and am just about enrolled. I just completed the Forces test and onto the Interview and Medical next week. Hoping to get to the Reserves Weekend BMQ in January 2018. I am really excited about working with the 41 Sig Regt soon.


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## commander-cb (17 Nov 2017)

I applied years ago but it appears to be starting afresh. I can not see a few days/weeks/months making a big deal.
I will go for it.


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## Mike5 (17 Nov 2017)

I enrolled at 47, completed the training, and I wasn't even the oldest guy on BMOQ-L.  I'm still in, still grateful for the opportunity to serve.  Just stay in shape, listen, watch, learn and hydrate.   You can do it,

Good luck


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## Kerosen (17 Nov 2017)

Mike5 said:
			
		

> I enrolled at 47, completed the training, and I wasn't even the oldest guy on BMOQ-L.  I'm still in, still grateful for the opportunity to serve.  Just stay in shape, listen, watch, learn and hydrate.   You can do it,
> 
> Good luck



I'M been enrolled at 47 y.o. too, starting BMQ in 2 weeks by week end, so far is not so bad at my armoury for the tuesday training accept last tuesday a 
bit rought on physical for my age for the last 15 minutes, but i survived.......... lollllllllll


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## lid (26 Nov 2017)

Am I too old for warrior trades? (DEO artillery, infantry officer, regular or reserve). Most topics only encourage to join, but not specifically about age+combat.

I'm nearly 33. If application go smooth I will be 35 to start, serve till 40. I was in good shape before, 10 years ago I ran 42km 100pushups, 5 years ago half this, but now half of half (Typical deterioration for 30+age civilian). Obviously no more "top shape". I think BMQ is still fine, but combat trade? There were few cases NCM beyond 35, but officers? I read through topics about BMOQ_L, DP, it's cruel with high probability of attrition, even I try very hard to regain fitness level. 

Is it advisable to apply warrior trades? (e.g. If only 1% combat officer start at 35, I will just give up this idea). Thanks.


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## BC Old Guy (26 Nov 2017)

lid said:
			
		

> Am I too old for warrior trades? (DEO artillery, infantry officer, regular or reserve). Most topics only encourage to join, but not specifically about age+combat.
> 
> I'm nearly 33. If application go smooth I will be 35 to start, serve till 40. . . .
> 
> Is it advisable to apply warrior trades? . . ..



Infantry officer training is very physically demanding, with only 50% completing the training.  The best description is the posting by Technoviking in 2011 - https://army.ca/forums/threads/99437/post-1018867.html#msg1018867 

I had a 50-year old Officer Cadet (OCdt) (Reserves) attend the Infantry course. (School staff did discuss with me, and asked - What was I thinking?)  He was very fit, training for and running marathon's before the start of training.  He was also very determined.  He did ok on the course, and was passing when he decided that the affects to his body were not worth the final results, in view of the prospects for deployment, and field employment.   This was towards the end of the Canadian deployment into Afghanistan,  when employment as a Reserve Lieutenant as a platoon commander on deployment was very unlikely.  He could have completed the course, and would have been an asset to the Reserve unit for the 6-7 years he could serve.

While at the Reserve unit, I mentored 2 junior officers in their early 30's who were attempting the Infantry course.  Both had some difficulties, especially with the physical demands on their bodies.  Successful completion was the result of high motivation to complete the course, and by being in excellent physical condition.  

When you are on course, many/most of your course-mates will be 20-22.  Some will be extremely fit.  They will recover faster.

In the end, it will be up to you.  Is the pain and damage to your body worth the future employment as an Infantry officer?  

BCOG


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## daftandbarmy (26 Nov 2017)

BC Old Guy said:
			
		

> In the end, it will be up to you.  Is the pain and damage to your body worth the future employment as an Infantry officer?
> 
> BCOG



Not to mention the fact that, in battle, the Infantry tend to be killed or wounded in much larger numbers than any other arm or service. 

Which is why we have so much fun at work!  ;D


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## Roger123 (26 Nov 2017)

Aircrew applicant here. Just curious as to the specific type of physical training that one goes through with respect to becoming an Infantry officer.


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## BC Old Guy (26 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Just curious as to the specific type of physical training that one goes through with respect to becoming an Infantry officer.



From Technoviking's 2011 post - "The field phase is intense.  If you think that you cannot bear to carry upwards of 60 pounds in all weather, day and night, for hours at a time, and then complete complex mental tasks with little sleep or food,"

         During classroom training, the candidates will be marching to/from with the full pack, wearing helmets, carrying personal and crew-served weapons.  This is followed by the field phase, where the candidate is marching with full kit day and night, while being tasked to lead, think, explain, applying the concepts learned in the classroom. This is in addition to any "traditional" Physical Fitness training that is conducted - confidence courses, jogging, calisthenics. 

 BCOG


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## mariomike (26 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Just curious as to the specific type of physical training that one goes through with respect to becoming an Infantry officer.



Infantry Officer Training
https://army.ca/forums/threads/124522.0

The Level of an Infantry Officer's Fitness  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/109545.0

How Fast should an infantry officer be able to run?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/34323.0

etc...

Infantry Officer physical training
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&biw=1280&bih=603&ei=rgEbWr7NEJGgjwSOtqioCA&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+physical+%22infantry+officer%22+&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+physical+%22infantry+officer%22+&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2538.3790.0.4964.7.6.0.0.0.0.129.521.4j2.6.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.0.0....0.OFy3hRuv8EQ


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## lid (26 Nov 2017)

BC Old Guy said:
			
		

> While at the Reserve unit, I mentored 2 junior officers in their early 30's who were attempting the Infantry course.  Both had some difficulties, especially with the physical demands on their bodies.  Successful completion was the result of high motivation to complete the course, and by being in excellent physical condition.
> 
> When you are on course, many/most of your course-mates will be 20-22.  Some will be extremely fit.  They will recover faster.



Yes that's the post worried me. Before reading that post I think I maybe just fine, after, I feel combat officer actually applied (though not stated) US age 27 threshold as physical requirement, and I'm out unless I'm ironman athlete beyond age. I don't want to be someone "waste time and resource", or struggling to pass lowest standard. 

I'd like to know more about the average, similar examples and statistics. For the two 30+ officers, do they finally keep up entire service period? Throughout all combat mentees you had, what percent is 30+ age? (e.g. 3% in regular? 5% in reserve? or the few examples are the only could recall?). 

I'm open to other trades, in selection process will it be "less considered for combat/ have better chance elsewhere" even if I put combat first choice?


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## mariomike (26 Nov 2017)

lid said:
			
		

> I'd like to know more about the average, similar examples and statistics. For the two 30+ officers, do they finally keep up entire service period? Throughout all combat mentees you had, what percent is 30+ age? (e.g. 3% in regular? 5% in reserve? or the few examples are the only could recall?).



Average age of Infantry Officers,
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&ei=zAUbWuWOIsq3jwSs5YugCA&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22+%22average+age%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22+%22average+age%22&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.34955.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.qSQ8S-ARL3E

Too old for the Infantry?
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&ei=4gYbWt2JE6bojwTc74j4DA&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22too+old%22+infantry&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22too+old%22+infantry&gs_l=psy-ab.3...44780.47567.0.48771.10.10.0.0.0.0.110.748.9j1.10.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.vP3_PfpH18g


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## lid (26 Nov 2017)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Average age of Infantry Officers,
> https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&ei=zAUbWuWOIsq3jwSs5YugCA&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22+%22average+age%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22+%22average+age%22&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.34955.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.qSQ8S-ARL3E
> 
> Too old for the Infantry?
> https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&ei=4gYbWt2JE6bojwTc74j4DA&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22too+old%22+infantry&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22too+old%22+infantry&gs_l=psy-ab.3...44780.47567.0.48771.10.10.0.0.0.0.110.748.9j1.10.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.vP3_PfpH18g



I did the research, read many posts (50+ pages) about age (and more megathreads about training) before I ask, including many of your previous answers. Still, typical results are "I know a few supermen, not me", "I'm 40,50 done BMQ (not related to combat)", and positive enouragement "age is not the problem". No statistics (percent % of 30+ age first join combat officer) to help decision, or any person telling his own training experience in age group. I understand such data maybe unavailable, discouraging or negative, but google again couldn't help more. Thanks anyway.


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## BC Old Guy (26 Nov 2017)

lid said:
			
		

> Yes that's the post worried me.
> 
> I'd like to know more about the average, similar examples and statistics. For the two 30+ officers, do they finally keep up entire service period? Throughout all combat mentees you had, what percent is 30+ age? (e.g. 3% in regular? 5% in reserve? or the few examples are the only could recall?).



Sorry - the data-set is too small to generalize.  I provided those examples as just that - examples of what could be done.  One has since left the unit, the other is a major.  Could the one that left the unit have been as successful as the one who is now a major - probably.  Life's circumstances change for all of us, and results in different decisions on whats best for ourselves and our families.  Some are successful, and stay, others are successful and leave.  

Could you pass the Infantry course? - Probably.  Will you WANT to pass?  That is the more important question in my mind.  If your answer is - Maybe, you may want to chose an occupation other than Infantry Officer.

You don't need to be super-fit to succeed.  However, you DO need have very good physical fitness, with emphasis on endurance and hiking in rough terrain with a heavy pack,  and a DESIRE to lead in the Infantry.

The other answers in this thread provide good information to help you to make up your mind. If you wish to continue this discussion off-line, send a PM.

BCOG


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## mariomike (26 Nov 2017)

lid said:
			
		

> Thanks anyway.



You are welcome. Good luck.


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## lid (26 Nov 2017)

I just realized my question very silly. Because 





> many/most of your course-mates will be 20-22


 so age situation don't apply to the most. Of course not enough sample for the quite few outliers. It must be very personal specific. (I basically give up the idea) Sorry for trouble. 

May I restate this age+combat query as poll: 

Suppose/image you/your peers are 35 now (was in combat before but not current), need go through BMOQ_L, DP1.1, 1.2, Could you do it? (considering physical fit and deprive of sleep)

A. Can do it right away ;D (easy difficulty)
B. Need 1-2 month fitness prep before the course  (normal)
C. Need 3-6 month prep  (hard)
D. Need longer time or, could just barely pass  :not-againveteran)
E. No way/Not applicable 

not seriously expecting answers, but change the way to ask may help?


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## Mike5 (27 Nov 2017)

Out of my lane so I will qualify my comments by saying I am Combat Service Support, not Infantry, Combat Trades please correct me.

I don't know if that survey will work... I think most would agree that the courses would be easier the second time around as you know what to expect.  It's understandable to focus on the physical demands but the mental demands are equally stressing.  I'm a Sig O, we have a technical role, but in many aspects Combat Trade Officers and NCOs are much smarter then me -- I think they are like quarterbacks, directing a large and complex team on the fly.  I just spent the weekend supporting an Armored Recce exercise, a lot of moving parts, moving very quickly.  They told me Armored Officer has one of the highest minimum required scores for CFAT -- I believe it.   

I like the earlier post about stats -- it would be helpful to the decision process if we could publish success rates on courses by age, length of service by age, etc.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Nov 2017)

lid said:
			
		

> I just realized my question very silly. Because  so age situation don't apply to the most. Of course not enough sample for the quite few outliers. It must be very personal specific. (I basically give up the idea) Sorry for trouble.
> 
> May I restate this age+combat query as poll:
> 
> ...



Only fanatics need apply


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## Roger123 (28 Nov 2017)

commander-cb said:
			
		

> I applied years ago but it appears to be starting afresh. I can not see a few days/weeks/months making a big deal.
> I will go for it.



Where are you in the application process? Waiting for interview/ medical etc.?


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## commander-cb (5 Dec 2017)

Just found out that I am too old.

I declined to proceed with anything else. 

So that's that..  I'll take my USMC p.f.t score of 280 and be on my way......og over and out


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## PuckChaser (5 Dec 2017)

You're too old to be a pilot, because you're too old to fulfill the basic engagement contract you'd have to sign. It has literally nothing to do with your physical fitness score.


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## LightFighter (5 Dec 2017)

commander-cb said:
			
		

> I'll take my USMC p.f.t score of 280 and be on my way......og over and out



Self administered fitness test you did 7 years ago.  You could be in amazing shape right now; but unfortunately your age will hold you back in this case.


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## commander-cb (17 Jun 2018)

My application is active again.
 :facepalm:
Not expecting to get the chance,  but willing to try.

I will be 51.


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## da1root (6 Jul 2018)

Keep in mind with age limits this is a limit imposed by the Government of Canada as a "Compulsory Retirement Age" (CRA).

CRA is 60; and the VIE (first contract) varies in length from 3 years to 13 years depending on the occupation and entry plan.  These contract lengths are to ensure that you are able to reach Occupational Function Point (the point at which you're qualified to do your job in the CAF) and get some actual work out of you before you reach CRA. 

Pilot DEO for example, the VIE is 9 years; so a person must be enrolled prior to their 51st birthday.  Waivers can be completed if you have a qualification that is in high demand in the CAF.  Which might happen in your case when/if you reach the Competition List.


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## commander-cb (11 Jul 2018)

Hello. It is very interesting to read that it still might be possible. I have decided to try for a commercial  pilot license ( 60-100 k ).
I am just going through the motions at the moment. I would never play it like a waver is possible; I will just move forward ,do my thing. And take what comes. ...meh...


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## AndrewJS (4 Sep 2018)

I'm looking for a career change, I'm currently 29 coming up to 30 quick. 
I always wanted to join, but was talked out of it before, even from a friend who was enlisted at the time. Anyways life went on, im now a Dad and a career change means alot more now then before. 
Biggest concern is finances, being able to be comfortable. 
I know the question will be asked. I am probably looking at joining in as a combat engineer or heavy equipment technician. Since my current career is in infrastructure and heavy equipment operator.
I currently make 90k a year, I know I won't see that in the army but between millitary housing and such would a NCM rate be livable for a family of four?


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## mariomike (4 Sep 2018)

AndrewJS said:
			
		

> I currently make 90k a year, I know I won't see that in the army but between millitary housing and such would a NCM rate be livable for a family of four?



This may help,

Monthly Pay at BMQ / Basic Training [Merged]  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13402.250
11 pages.

Pay Deductions [Merged]
https://army.ca/forums/threads/44740.50.html
3 pages.

Regular Force NCM and Class C Pay Rates
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page

See also,

Pay
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+pay&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gws_rd=ssl



			
				AndrewJS said:
			
		

> I am probably looking at joining in as a combat engineer or heavy equipment technician. Since my current career is in infrastructure and heavy equipment operator.



You may also wish to consider,

Mobile Support Equipment Operator
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/administration-support/mobile-support-equipment-operator.html
•Operate buses, automobiles, trucks and tractor-trailers
•Operate specialized mobile equipment such as fuelling tankers, snowplows, tractors and all-terrain vehicles


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## LightFighter (4 Sep 2018)

AndrewJS said:
			
		

> I'm looking for a career change, I'm currently 29 coming up to 30 quick.
> I always wanted to join, but was talked out of it before, even from a friend who was enlisted at the time. Anyways life went on, im now a Dad and a career change means alot more now then before.
> Biggest concern is finances, being able to be comfortable.
> I know the question will be asked. I am probably looking at joining in as a combat engineer or heavy equipment technician. Since my current career is in infrastructure and heavy equipment operator.
> I currently make 90k a year, I know I won't see that in the army but between millitary housing and such would a NCM rate be livable for a family of four?



If I were you, I’d look at joining the Reserves.  

Canadians Forces pay scale
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page

You would start at Private, pay increment 1.

There will be various deductions to your pay while you are in training.  Once you are trained and at a unit, if at a field unit you will get a Land Duty Allowance(LDA), and depending on what bass you are at, a Post Living Differential(PLD) allowance. 

Financially, it’s doable but if you have money saved up that can supplement your Private’s pay.  Might be tight though. As well, if your spouse has an income that’s a bonus(depending on your posting, and her career it may be hard for her to find work, at least at first). 

As well, Military housing(PMQs) are not free, but are an option once you’re at your posting after you’re trained.  Depending on the base and the PMQs offered, they may not be the greatest. Living in the local town/city may be a better option. 


For trades of interest for you, in addition you Combat Engineer you might be interested in Construction Technician.


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## mariomike (4 Sep 2018)

Pickle Rick said:
			
		

> If I were you, I’d look at joining the Reserves.



He could, but that would be adding a part-time job to a full-time job. A full-time job that may already include overtime.

It is not a career change.



			
				AndrewJS said:
			
		

> I'm looking for a career change, I'm currently 29 coming up to 30 quick.
> 
> Anyways life went on, im now a Dad and a career change means alot more now then before.





			
				AndrewJS said:
			
		

> I currently make 90k a year,



Doesn't say if that is base pay for a 40-hour week, or if it includes overtime.

If it includes OT, how much time will the individual have available for the PRes?


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## LightFighter (4 Sep 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> He could, but that would be adding a part-time job to a full-time job. A full-time job that may already include overtime.
> 
> It is not a career change.
> 
> ...




I’m not posting to seek your approval or opinion.  I just posted another option for CF service for AndrewJS. His decision to look into it, or just focus on Regular Force.


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## mariomike (4 Sep 2018)

Pickle Rick said:
			
		

> His decision to look into it, or just focus on Regular Force.



If he does look into the PRes, he may also wish to consider if he has time available from his full-time job for BMQ ( full-time or weekend ) and trade training.


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## Xylric (5 Sep 2018)

Thinking about it, I'm 34 now, would be 35 by the time BMOQ comes around. I'd most likely be a decade or so older than the average, but since I've had experience with that in my last college program (returning to pick up new skills, when most classmates were just out of high school), the only real difference I can see myself needing to adjust to is that I'm "younger than I should be" due to being a twin.

I mean, I wasn't allowed by my parents to get my driver's license until I was 19, because I still looked like I was 12 at 16....


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## Trader 556 (11 Sep 2018)

Just wanted to share my story with my 2nd application.

Long story short, I applied once before when I was 30 years old, then life and family happened.

Fast forward for Nov 2017 and the itch came back to apply.  Sent messages to Facebook Recruiting Team but they did not answer my specific questions, so idea of reapplying dead in the water.

May 2018 rolls around and I attend my kid's FunFair at school and to my surprise, I see the CAF there from a local Reserve Unit.  I had time to kill so I started asking them a bunch of questions that were lingering from Nov 2017.  They answered them and talked it over with my wife about reapplying.

I had just missed an Open House with the Unit I was interested in but still managed to book a "private" tour and once again, I asked my escort the same questions from the FunFair to confirm the validity of their (FunFair) answers.

I made it loud and clear with the Recruiter with the Unit I'm on my wife and kid's schedule in regards to future potential training and they were cool and understanding with my situation given one officer I spoke to also had wife and kids.

With that in hand, i jumped in with both feet with the online application in the last week of May 2018 to get the ball rolling.

FORCE Fitness test booked for first week of July 2018.  Having been through the process before, I requested I speak with the MedTech after my FORCE fitness test and I let the MedTech know my full situation with my health and he gave me all the required formed in advance to speed up the application process.

Here's where it gets interesting, being that I'm 40, any applicant between 40-50 years old will be required to get blood work and an ECG done.  I also wear glasses and already have tinnitus.

In hindsight, I should have gotten the ECG done first as if there is anything "wrong" with my heart, I'm pretty much medically unfit as my ECG showed an abnormal blip and my family doctor wanted an ultrasound done as they are more accurate.  To this point, I had already gotten my eyes reexamined, ($120), had the family doctor fill out another form ($35).  As everyone knows, when any medical stuff is required, we're working on their schedule and it may take a long time to get booked in by any medical professional.  This whole process took me awhile  to get everything checked out due to scheduling conflicts.

Medical and Interview booked for 4th week of July 2018.  

By the 2nd week of Aug 2018, I had completed everything for the application process, mainly my medical files were submitted to Ottawa for further review and I was given the heads up by the MedTech it would take about 3 weeks to hear back from them.  Which would suggest I should hear back after Labour Day long weekend.  Low and behold, I receive an email on a Wednesday stating I've been accepted and was Sworn in by Friday.

So here I am, a 40 year old recruit joining the Army and found out its very common for people my age to do this kinda thing, call it a mid life crisis if you like, my wife thinks so.  But better to give it a shot then regret it my whole life wondering "what if...".

I'm booked in for part time BMQ starting 2 Nov 2018 and gonna take it week by week.  my biggest concerns are the ruck marches and the switching between normal day life to weekend military life.

Been doing 5k runs every 3 days or so since June 2018 to maintain my gains, cardio has always been a weak point for myself but now I  don't mind running. Hello morning PT! lol

Keeping track of my run stats is super important to me, I average about 5:20-5:30 min / km comfortably,  running an average of 5:15-5:10 min/ km is more challenging as my last 1.0-1.5km, my heart rate is pretty much running at peak form at 180 bpm.  My average cadence is 160-165 and read the magic number to hit is 180 which I'll give it a shot on my next run.

Gonna slowly introduce resistance training as well.  Need to keep in mind not to over train and cause injury as that seems to be a very common problem.

Either way, gonna be interesting now that I'm in, it still has not hit me yet.


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## cld617 (11 Sep 2018)

I'd vary your running up a bit, running 5k's 3x a week isn't optimal training, and it's certainly not what people who want to improve their 5k's do. Add some LISS running into the mix, and a substantially shorter track interval workout and I guarantee you'll see substantial improvements to your run times. Mileage isn't necessarily the answer when it comes to getting better at those middle distances, your heart/lungs need sustained efforts at low intensities to improve, and to run a 5k fast requires leg strength development you'll get best from sprint work. Start sloooow with sprint work if you haven't done it before, takes a while for everything to get used to the stresses, and it's really easy to pull a hamstring.


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## DueFall (14 Sep 2018)

I believe in following your dreams, no matter what you feel may be 'limiting' you.

I know people who have returned to school to obtain not only their bachelor's degree but their masters, too. Law school, medicine, etc - well into their 50s. I also know people who have applied for the CAF within that age range, too. My father-in-law was an "older" recruit, but it's not really fair to say that considering at 34, he was not even close to the youngest person there. 

Follow your heart. I don't believe that there is such a thing as "too old". Only too afraid to execute their dreams!

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do - I beg of you not to limit yourself.


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## commander-cb (26 Apr 2019)

I do not see it. I think my application was tossed again. I have to assume my file is flagged and I will never get a chance. I used to think it was a good idea to join, but, my application  started ... long ago.. maybe 8 years. I think I've waited long enough.


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## kratz (27 Apr 2019)

commander-cb,

Your current application has been pending for 1.5 years. 
Inflating your wait time is a dishonest representation for others who are waiting for their own files.



			
				commander-cb said:
			
		

> I do not see it. I think my application was tossed again. I have to assume my file is flagged and I will never get a chance. I used to think it was a good idea to join, but, my application  started ... long ago.. maybe 8 years. I think I've waited long enough.



From the Waiting Game topic:




			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> No you're not. You're at just over a year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## juliandam26 (1 Sep 2019)

Hi there,

I am planning on joining the Primary Reserve. My inclination was for Intelligence Officer but it seems that trade has specific academic requirements (degrees) that are not mine; so now I'm thinking on Armour Officer. I have heard many people saying that arms trades are more physically demanding, which makes sense. If everything goes right, I would be starting BMQ when I am 41-42 years old. And then after BMQ, I know I would have to go through the common army phase. I would like the opinion of some of you guys to see if at my age, trying to go through arms trade is a doable thing or a far fetch. I am aware that everything depends of the level of fitness of every individual, but I am just looking for any tip, advice or comment.

I would really appreciate any type of information in that regard. Thank you very much.


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## daftandbarmy (3 Sep 2019)

Juliandam26 said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> 
> I am planning on joining the Primary Reserve. My inclination was for Intelligence Officer but it seems that trade has specific academic requirements (degrees) that are not mine; so now I'm thinking on Armour Officer. I have heard many people saying that arms trades are more physically demanding, which makes sense. If everything goes right, I would be starting BMQ when I am 41-42 years old. And then after BMQ, I know I would have to go through the common army phase. I would like the opinion of some of you guys to see if at my age, trying to go through arms trade is a doable thing or a far fetch. I am aware that everything depends of the level of fitness of every individual, but I am just looking for any tip, advice or comment.
> 
> I would really appreciate any type of information in that regard. Thank you very much.



If you haven't talked to someone at the CFRC I would sugest that you do. They have alot of answers to alot of questions like the ones you've posed.

And no, being over 40 won't be a problem in the Combat Arms if you're fit enough, and the CFRC can tell you more about what is required.


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## da1root (23 Sep 2019)

Juliandam26 said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> 
> I am planning on joining the Primary Reserve. My inclination was for Intelligence Officer but it seems that trade has specific academic requirements (degrees) that are not mine; so now I'm thinking on Armour Officer. I have heard many people saying that arms trades are more physically demanding, which makes sense. If everything goes right, I would be starting BMQ when I am 41-42 years old. And then after BMQ, I know I would have to go through the common army phase. I would like the opinion of some of you guys to see if at my age, trying to go through arms trade is a doable thing or a far fetch. I am aware that everything depends of the level of fitness of every individual, but I am just looking for any tip, advice or comment.
> 
> I would really appreciate any type of information in that regard. Thank you very much.



Hi,

You said it best yourself "I am aware that everything depends of the level of fitness of every individual".
With that said I went through Basic with a gentleman who was in his 50's and did better than most of the 20 year olds.  I have been in 20+ years and work alongside many individuals in their 40's and 50's who are probably more fit than I am.  Is a combat trade physically demanding?  Yes! But it's doable if you're fit and want to do it.


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## Mosher (10 Apr 2020)

I am currently 32, I did BMQ back in 2009, went on to Meaford and released before battle school due to family issues back home.

I've been a striving athlete ever since I released (to say I'm physically fit enough for infantry would be an understatement) but there's always been something missing through my journey as an athlete ...

I had always regret releasing, and have felt the fear of missing out when I see old BMQ mates getting deployed. Especially now during the covid-19 lockdown, analyzing my life, past and future, I feel that strong call, calling me back to the forces.

Anyone here join infantry in your 30s? Any advice for or against my potential re-enlisting at my age, especially for infantry?

I am currently married, but no kids (but the wife is dying to have kids)


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## mariomike (10 Apr 2020)

Mosher said:
			
		

> Anyone here join infantry in your 30s? Any advice for or against my potential re-enlisting at my age, especially for infantry?



This may help,

Am I too old, unfit or uncertain?  
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/131088.50.html

Also, other age-related discussions on the site about the CAF, and the Combat Arms and Infantry specifically.


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## brihard (10 Apr 2020)

Mosher said:
			
		

> I am currently 32, I did BMQ back in 2009, went on to Meaford and released before battle school due to family issues back home.
> 
> I've been a striving athlete ever since I released (to say I'm physically fit enough for infantry would be an understatement) but there's always been something missing through my journey as an athlete ...
> 
> ...



Are you considering the Regular Force or the Reserves?


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## Jarnhamar (10 Apr 2020)

Good question, I'll wait for the answer and repost


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## Mosher (10 Apr 2020)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Are you considering the Regular Force or the Reserves?




I am open to both, but am primarily looking at reg force


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## M16 (16 Apr 2020)

Joining Reserve, there shouldn’t be problem. From what I see, guys in reserve unit are always coming and leaving, there should be enough spots. When I was enrolled, I saw people in their 30s joined as infantry. Of course, majority recruits were around 20 years old, but older guys were not handful either. Just back then the war in Afghanistan was intensive, they needed many infantries. Now, do they need so many?


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## daftandbarmy (16 Apr 2020)

Mosher said:
			
		

> I am open to both, but am primarily looking at reg force



Infantry is the best job in the world, seriously, and if you're fit you shouldn't have any issues. 

However, your biggest issue might be separation from your next of kin. This isn't much of an issue for 20 year olds but can be a deal breaker for married folks with kids. Or who want to have kids. 

You will definitely experience more separation in the Reg F, but the money and employment/deployment opportunities are much better than the reserves. However reserve deployment opportunities, especially on operations like the Covid response, are excellent.

Good luck with your decision!


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## Brasidas (2 May 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Infantry is the best job in the world, seriously, and if you're fit you shouldn't have any issues.
> 
> However, your biggest issue might be separation from your next of kin. This isn't much of an issue for 20 year olds but can be a deal breaker for married folks with kids. Or who want to have kids.
> 
> ...



There's room for discussion as to whether it's best.

If you're looking to balance quality of life (spending time with your family) vs an interesting work environment, you may want to consider a different trade.

Since you're looking at the reserves as well, consider support trades, specifically supply tech, HRA, and FSA. There's a chronic shortage of qualified pers to fill full-time positions, and there are positions available for junior pers across the country.

You can and do go to the field on exercise, and it's possible to go overseas on deployments. On the other hand, between a lower operational tempo and having control of your career, you can adjust so that you meet your family's needs.

Deploying to the field as a MCpl acting as RQ, coordinating the logistics for a hundred guys on the fly to run a range while still getting some time as part of the training audience can be a fun challenge.


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## cld617 (2 May 2020)

Joining the infantry now and at your age just seems like a recipe for disappointment. Sure there are opportunities for cool courses if you do well, but at the end of the day, it's still just training. Combine that with dealing with the sort of nonsense guys in garrison get put through just to stay busy, you're gonna have a disappointing time.


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## ArmyRick (3 May 2020)

Mosher, I may very well have been your platoon WO when you released. Send me a PM. I can give you my experiences on what your up, grounded in reality


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## Truenorth101 (7 May 2020)

I recently submitted an application to join the Primary Army Reserves as an Infantryman. I am 46 years old, in good physical shape. My questions are: am I crazy to do this at my age? Will the physical training be too much for a person my age? What standards should I be gaging my fitness level against? Any insights greatly appreciated.


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## Pwegman (12 May 2020)

Truenorth101 said:
			
		

> I recently submitted an application to join the Primary Army Reserves as an Infantryman. I am 46 years old, in good physical shape. My questions are: am I crazy to do this at my age? Will the physical training be too much for a person my age? What standards should I be gaging my fitness level against? Any insights greatly appreciated.



I joined at 36 and im still in the army at 41 . If you're in good shape you will do fine. You just gonna need more rest time than the younger one but, even can make better time than them on the FORCES TEST haha . If in you're head you think you can do it , then you're going to do it. All is in the head. Just need the proper mind set.


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## da1root (23 May 2020)

Truenorth101 said:
			
		

> What standards should I be gaging my fitness level against?



FORCE Evaluation Test: https://www.cafconnection.ca/National/Programs-Services/For-Military-Personnel/Military-Fitness/FORCE-Program/FORCE-Evaluation.aspx

Unlike the old fitness test, everyone has the same maximum amount of time that they can take to do a certain task.  If you're hoping to get a fitness award (https://www.cafconnection.ca/National/Programs-Services/For-Military-Personnel/Military-Fitness/FORCE-Program/FORCE-Rewards-Program.aspx) that is where you are compared with other individuals in your gender/age range.


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## Mike5 (23 May 2020)

Truenorth101 said:
			
		

> I recently submitted an application to join the Primary Army Reserves as an Infantryman. I am 46 years old, in good physical shape. My questions are: am I crazy to do this at my age? Will the physical training be too much for a person my age? What standards should I be gaging my fitness level against? Any insights greatly appreciated.



If you're crazy then I am crazy a decade later.  I joined the PRes at 47 years, in good physical shape.  I am still in seven years on.  Stay in shape, watch your knees and ankles, and hydrate.


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## infant (11 Sep 2021)

I've done it as well, and you are not crazy.  It's absolutely true that the CAF does not discriminate based on age.  If you are committed and you are working out hard you will make it through.  The opportunity is there for those that really want it.


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