# Parks Canada Police About to be Tested (then Armed)



## The Bread Guy (21 Aug 2008)

Remember this?


> Canada’s Environment Minister John Baird today announced that the Government of Canada is authorizing Parks Canada to create up to 100 armed enforcement officer positions. These officers will be dedicated to law enforcement in our national parks, and will receive rigorous training and screening ....  The Parks Canada enforcement officers will be responsible for enforcing the Canada National Parks Act, the Canada National Marine Conservation Areas Act, associated regulations and other applicable federal conservation legislation that applies in our national parks and national marine conservation areas. Police services of jurisdiction will continue to be the primary enforcers of the Criminal Code of Canada.  Parks Canada will also develop an audit and evaluation program to ensure the safe management and use of firearms, and to meet accountability requirements.  The implementation of this decision will take time; however *Parks Canada anticipates that the law enforcement program will be implemented around the fall of 2008, with armed enforcement officers in place by March of 2009.* Parks Canada is developing specific policies and operational manuals, will staff and train the employees, and will select and acquire the proper equipment....



Well, according to MERX, it appears they're lining up the psych assessment services.


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Aug 2008)

Interesting...I wonder what sidearm Parks Canada is looking at?


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Aug 2008)

I'll go out on a limb and guess it's the same one CBSA has gotten. Just a hunch.


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Aug 2008)

Beratta if my mind has not completely gone.


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## blacktriangle (21 Aug 2008)

I think it is a beretta storm px4 or something to that end.


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Aug 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I think it is a beretta storm px4 or something to that end.



i think you would be correct.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Aug 2008)

Yup. The Beretta Px4 9mm. I'll find a pic

http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotlight/spotlight_pistol_px4.cfm


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## RangerRay (21 Aug 2008)

About time they started arming wardens!  They had been peace officers enforcing the law in national parks for almost 100 years, up until a labour board ruling said that either they be armed or stop enforcing the law in national parks.  Then-Minister Sheila Copps then pulled all law enforcement authorities from the Warden Service rather than make them effective in protecting our national parks.


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## retiredgrunt45 (22 Aug 2008)

Well its about time!

But What's a 9mm going to do against someone hunting illegally with a highpowered rifle with a scope, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. At least give them a rifle as a backup. With some of the very remote locations and wide open spaces of no mans land these wardens have to patrol, I'd want more than a popgun. A Marlin 336 lever action 30-30 makes and excellent bush rifle with plenty of stopping power and it can be mounted with scope. 

Just my 2.0 cents.


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## George Wallace (22 Aug 2008)

Do they not already have rifles?


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## stryte (22 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Do they not already have rifles?



No, I do not believe so. 



			
				retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> But What's a 9mm going to do against someone hunting illegally with a highpowered rifle with a scope, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. At least give them a rifle as a backup. With some of the very remote locations and wide open spaces of no mans land these wardens have to patrol, I'd want more than a popgun. A Marlin 336 lever action 30-30 makes and excellent bush rifle with plenty of stopping power and it can be mounted with scope.



That would be desireable. It will be disappointing if they do end up with the Px4 Storm or any 9mm for that matter. If you examine the sidearm of choice for provincial conservation officers across the nation the majority are using 40cal. Some provinces implemented 9mm and learnt the hard way that it provided insufficient stopping power.


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## RangerRay (22 Aug 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Do they not already have rifles?



They have rifles and shotguns, strictly for problem wildlife.


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## The Bread Guy (22 Aug 2008)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> They have rifles and shotguns, strictly for *problem wildlife.*



Well, there _*are *_those who might consider some mammals walking on two legs "problem wildlife"


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## Ex-Dragoon (22 Aug 2008)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> Well its about time!
> 
> But What's a 9mm going to do against someone hunting illegally with a highpowered rifle with a scope, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. At least give them a rifle as a backup. With some of the very remote locations and wide open spaces of no mans land these wardens have to patrol, I'd want more than a popgun. A Marlin 336 lever action 30-30 makes and excellent bush rifle with plenty of stopping power and it can be mounted with scope.
> 
> Just my 2.0 cents.



Better a 9mm then nothing at all. They are also there to deter crime and a presence of an armed uniform officer helps with that.


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## Neill McKay (22 Aug 2008)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> But What's a 9mm going to do against someone hunting illegally with a highpowered rifle with a scope, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. At least give them a rifle as a backup. With some of the very remote locations and wide open spaces of no mans land these wardens have to patrol, I'd want more than a popgun. A Marlin 336 lever action 30-30 makes and excellent bush rifle with plenty of stopping power and it can be mounted with scope.



Perhaps a stupid question from someone who is not a small arms expert, but once you cross the threshold of having a semi-automatic firearm how much difference does it make what the calibre is?  Unless you're going to shoot someone who's wearing body armour, is seems to me that a bullet in the chest is a bullet in the chest and it doesn't matter much how big the hole is.


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## Bass ackwards (22 Aug 2008)

Neill, there's no real "threshold" to cross between revolvers and semi-auto's, it's just a different operating system -each with their own advantages and disadvantages. 
The debate between 9mm vs .45ACP vs.40S&W has been argued a million times over. Much of this argument started after what is known as the "Miami shootout" in 1986 where a couple of FBI agents were killed in a gun battle with 2 armed suspects. Both suspects were hit numerous times by the FBI 9mm and .38's yet were able to keep fighting. This led to the development of the 10mm and, later, the .40S&W (which is now pretty much standard for North American law enforcement agencies).

Here's a link if you're not familiar with that particular episode:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout
(There was even a movie made about this incident)

As to the idea of a handgun -any handgun- being useless against someone armed with a high-powered rifle: this would be true if they were stalking each other out in the field, but the fact of the matter is that most poachers are caught at roadside checks, or while they're busy gutting and quartering the animal they just poached.
In cases like those (up close and personal) there's no real advantage to the hunting rifle over the handgun -especially if you're trying to bring it into action while sitting in the cab of your half-ton. 

Just my .02


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## Colin Parkinson (22 Aug 2008)

If there is a problem, chances are the fight will take place within 25 yards in which case the handgun will do well. Giving them a "patrol rifle" such as a Remington 700 would be useful, but I just glad they are being armed.


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## medaid (22 Aug 2008)

I think, and this is just me... a carbine that shoots 7.62 or .306 would be ideal for them. It has enough stopping power for if and when they need to reach out and tap someone. It's also a versatile round for all their other duties. Just me though. However I think a .40 would be smarter then a 9mm any day. However, since it's Federal it'll be a 9mm for the ease of logistics and chair warming.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Aug 2008)

I doubt we'll ever see a situation where a park ranger is taking long range shots, that require a rifle, at a felon. A pistol is sufficient protection. In most situations, just the fact that they are armed will defuse any potential threat. They are for self protection. Not a manhunt.


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## Colin Parkinson (23 Aug 2008)

Some of the Park Rangers work pretty remote areas, often by horseback, poachers are an issue and the possibilty of being in a long range shootout with a rifle armed person is reasonable possibilty.


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## stryte (23 Aug 2008)

Anybody know why the park wardens will be required to undergo a psychological assessment to carry a sidearm when they already carry a rifle?


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## Kat Stevens (23 Aug 2008)

To appease the granola and yogurt brigades.


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## The Bread Guy (25 Aug 2008)

Pilon said:
			
		

> Anybody know why the park wardens will be required to undergo a psychological assessment to carry a sidearm when they already carry a rifle?



Did they even go through one before they got rifles, for that matter?


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## 40below (25 Aug 2008)

Border guards are a couple years ahead of them on this one and they're still having big issues. Once they got the keeners with a police/military background and a firearms background trained up, with the idea that they would then act as the trainers to the rest, they discovered that as many as one in three guards either couldn't or wouldn't meet the qualifications – some of them were medically or psychologically unfit, others just didn't want to carry a sidearm for various reasons. Be interesting to see how Parks Canada compares.

http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/290682


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## J.J (25 Aug 2008)

> http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/290682


40 below,
That is a dated article printed before the course was even designed or the MOU was finalized with the RCMP. There is an average of 1-3 Officers failing each course for either marksmenship or the scenario based training. The candidate gets 2 tries at the course, before they could potentially lose their job.  To date there only has been one person who has failed twice and that person has a medical condition and they were given a medical waiver.
I believe Parks Canada will experience the same results.



> Once they got the keener's with a police/military background and a firearms background trained up


FYI
Out of the 23 or so CBSA National Trainers, there is 4 ex military/current reservist and 1 former Police Officer. More ex military or former LEO failed than passed. most of the trainers are hunters or at the time, they had no knowledge of firearms....just switched on individuals


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