# Personal Wpns. policy?



## Foxhound (3 Feb 2004)

Several years ago during Gulf War 1.0 in Guns and Ammo magazine, Col. Jeff Cooper wrote something like:

We (he always used the royal â Å“weâ ?) note with some concern that our soldiers have been told to bring shoe polish and boot brushes with them to the Gulf, but NOT their personal sidearms.  It seems to us that if a soldier is a better shot and is more confident with Grampa's 1911, he should bring and carry it in theater.

The quote is definitely not exact as I'm composing this from memory, but you get the sentiment.

My question then is:  Does the CF have a stated policy on the use of personal weapons (as opposed to other types of personal gear) in an operational theater and if so what is it?

D.D.C.O.S.U.& F.


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## portcullisguy (3 Feb 2004)

I dunno if it‘s stated anywhere, but I don‘t think I need to look this one up.

Personal weapons in theatre?  Not a snowball‘s chance in satan‘s BBQ.

Too many risks, too much liability.

Consider the source of your article, Jeff Cooper is a top pistol marksman, if I am thinking of the correct one, and has spawned customized M1911A1 pistols.  And, the Americans are quite a bit more relaxed when it comes to guns anyway.

Here in Canada, assuming you have a firearms licence, and own personal firearms, you would first of all find our own firearms laws to be an obstacle to contend with.  You cannot get an authorization to transport a restricted weapon (such as a privately owned pistol) to your local CF base for some practice, unless it happens to be a Provincially-recognized shooting club.  Taking it with you when you pack for Afghanistan is a non-starter, you‘ll never get the permit for that either.  If by some miracle you manage to ship it out, when I check your luggage and find it on your return to Canada, I‘ll be more than pleased to seize it as forfeit to the Crown.

Long guns would be redundant, as the army‘s C7 or the sniper rifle (C3 is it?) is far better than any non-restricted rifle you are likely to have in your gun cabinet.

And, you can‘t use your own live ammo, so you would need to already own firearms of the correct NATO calibre.

Come to think of it, I recall a lecture last summer that expressly prohibited a CF member while on duty from using any weapon not issued and for which they were not trained.

Someone here will no doubt fill in any QR&O sections...


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## Foxhound (3 Feb 2004)

Roger that, portcullisguy.  I figured as much.  I seem to remember an instructor in Cornwallis saying something about it, but I was kinda sleep-deprived at the time so probably wasn‘t paying as much attention as I should have been.

Col. Cooper does make a certain amount of sense.  Although I suppose an argument could be made that one should become as proficient with their issued sidearm as they are with their personal one.


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## scm77 (3 Feb 2004)

What about if you weren‘t issued a sidearm, but you had your own that was the same model and calibre.  Could you use it then?  I doubt it but I‘m just curious.


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## combat_medic (3 Feb 2004)

You cannot use any weapon other than the one issued to you, no matter what make, model or calibre. Not to mention that the C7 is illegal in Canada.


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## Infanteer (3 Feb 2004)

The C7 is, but an AR-15 is nearly identical and can be used for off-duty practice.


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## D-n-A (3 Feb 2004)

You just need a restricted firearms license to own a AR15 correct?


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## Spr.Earl (3 Feb 2004)

Over the year‘s and having talked to Vet‘s from WW2 and Korea some did pick up the odd side arm and kept them and did use them for self protection.(full blown war).

To day we are not allowed to have personnel weapon‘s!


Only issued arm‘s!!!


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## Infanteer (3 Feb 2004)

Yes, it is a restricted weapon.

Funny, the laws are quite inconsistant.  An FN is prohibited, yet an M-14 is not even restricted.


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## combat_medic (3 Feb 2004)

AR15 is a restricted weapon, and it only fires single shots, and you can only have 5 round magazines.


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## jonsey (3 Feb 2004)

Can someone still legally get an AR15, or has aquiring one become completely illegal?


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## D-n-A (3 Feb 2004)

You can buy s AR15, providing you have the Restricted Fire Arms license.

I‘ve seen one for sale in the local buy an sell


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## Spr.Earl (3 Feb 2004)

I believe only collector‘s can.

Did you know?!!(I believe,correct me if I‘m wrong)
If you have a old collector‘s License that when you die your License is gone for ever and so are your weapon‘s! 
Collector‘s License‘s are no longer issued!!


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## D-n-A (3 Feb 2004)

If you die, I dont think you‘d be worrying about your license and weapons.


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## Foxhound (3 Feb 2004)

Spr.Earl, I don‘t know if there‘s anything called a collctor‘s licence.  I began owning handguns in 1988 and the stated reason for wanting to own my first, a Ruger GP-100 .357 mag. was "collection."  I later studied to be and worked as a gunsmith for four years.

Could it be that what you are reffering to in your post is the fact that with the new firearms laws, prohibited weapons can no longer have their ownership transferred?  Basically now, what that means is that when I go that GP-100 has to be destroyed (because IT‘S now classed as prohibited!), but someone is going to have to come round and rescue my C1.


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## Slumsofsackville (3 Feb 2004)

AR-15 are restricted, Semi auto, In canada where limited to 5rds. No limit in barrel lenght, seen from 4" - 26". having a short or long barrel doesn‘t change it‘s class.

To take Ar‘s to the range you need your restricted licence to buy and a ATT to transport it from your house to the range.

Theres FA(full Auto), or CA(converted Auto, Once was auto, but now not) AR‘s in canada, but you needed a Special licence, and have it registered b4 a Certian date.

Collector licence allows you to collect and buy, but doesn‘t allow you to shoot them I think.Becuase the whole goal is collect.


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## Michael Dorosh (4 Feb 2004)

The collector‘s licenses that Spr Earl are referring to (I think) apply to full auto.  They are not grandfathered, so Spr Earl is exactly right - once the machinegun collectors currently in Canada die off, there will be no more....

That‘s right, boys and girls.  Once upon a time in Canada, you the citizens had a right to own fully automatic weapons, and even to shoot them, provided your paperwork was in order.  No longer.


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## Spr.Earl (4 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Foxhound:
> [qb] Spr.Earl, I don‘t know if there‘s anything called a collctor‘s licence.  I began owning handguns in 1988 and the stated reason for wanting to own my first, a Ruger GP-100 .357 mag. was "collection."  I later studied to be and worked as a gunsmith for four years.
> 
> Could it be that what you are reffering to in your post is the fact that with the new firearms laws, prohibited weapons can no longer have their ownership transferred?  Basically now, what that means is that when I go that GP-100 has to be destroyed (because IT‘S now classed as prohibited!), but someone is going to have to come round and rescue my C1. [/qb]


Correcto Mundo!!
That‘s why I posted "correct me"    

I have a friend who‘s up in arm‘s over the new law‘s as his collection is worth quite a bit of money and but also use‘s his weapon‘s just target shooting.! 
But he can not will his weapon‘s collection to his Son   

Kinda F‘d up what!!

I‘ll take your C1 !!


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## Enzo (4 Feb 2004)

Pers wpns eh? I was always hoping I would be in a situation where I would have to rely upon my trusty Gaucha Iga Coach Gun. Just like Dirty Steve from "Young Guns" eh? Ba-Boom.

Ok, back to reality. Bringing pers sidearms, aside from the legal issues, is also a logistical issue. Now, I‘m going to cite a mainstream movie as an example, not for realism by any means. It‘s just that I got such a kick out of the revolver Spike Jonze receives from his buddy‘s back home. Its a Thunder 5 .410 5 shot revolver. The ****ed thing looks like a freakish revolver especially as this one had such a practical 2" barrel. Could you find a more impractical sidearm? Which is possibly why the producers went with it. So, imagine trying to find ammunition for that thing in theatre, etc...

Bottom line, take care of your C7 and it‘ll take care of you.


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## Ex-Dragoon (4 Feb 2004)

I am very much a supporter of secondary or backup weapons but I can see why we are not allowed. look at it this way if the CF all of a sudden made a policy that stated we were allowed to have sidearms then we would have a plethora of pistols. You would have guys coming in with everything from Desert Eagles and Glocks to colt Pythons and Navy Colts. We would end up looking like cowboys and look very unprofessional.


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## scm77 (4 Feb 2004)

What‘s the CF‘s policy towards you owning your own guns, but not using them while in uniform?  Could you keep one of your own guns on base?


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## Ex-Dragoon (4 Feb 2004)

The CF does not have a problem with private ownership.When I lived in the shacks in Pet a number of us had our own weapons and we had them in the weapons lockup. Whether thats still the case or not I am not sure but when I first put them in I had to provide proof of my FAC and ownership certificate of the weapon whether it was restricted or not. Since the new gun laws the CF has never made an issue of me owning anything, then again I live in my own house so I would like them to try and tell me otherwise.


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## combat_medic (4 Feb 2004)

If you‘re in the Reg force and living on base, there are certain regulations about use and storage of personal weapons. If you want to know what they are, then speak to your friendly neighbourhood MPs; they‘ll know.


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## Slumsofsackville (4 Feb 2004)

Last time, I talked to gagetown, becuase I was thinking of moving, and I asked them about the storing of weapons, they said once you get into the unit, ask your CO. About in the Unit Lockers.

It‘s just me, I dont trust my guns, with a locker where alot of ppl got the keys and in touching range, and able to take stuff off. Heard too many stories. I found a person that will let me store them off base, for me.


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