# No need for new military units, says Hillier



## dapaterson (25 Jul 2007)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/25/hillier-cfunits.html



> The general also poured cold water on Conservative plans to create up to 14 territorial defence battalions.
> 
> "We're not in the business of creating a new units. We have sufficient units," he said.
> 
> ...



More on the link...


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## Teddy Ruxpin (25 Jul 2007)

Common sense prevails?  This makes me cautiously optimistic.

Now if only we can sum the whole stupid TDBG concept up and get on with real operational planning...


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## Greymatters (25 Jul 2007)

I have always considered the idea of the 14 territorial defence battalions as a bad idea and a political sop at best.  It might have been a good idea 20 years ago, but it would only throw a wrench into the problems we are already dealing with.


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## Pte AJB (25 Jul 2007)

A demonstration of common sense I agree, but I wonder how many time General Hillier can make these political statements before getting his wrist slapped? Isn't this an overstep of boundaries?


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## Eland (26 Jul 2007)

The idea of territorial defence battalions sounds good from a conceptual standpoint. However, isn't this issue already dealt with through the creation of 31 Canadian Brigade, et al.? Nominally, these Reserve brigade groups already have a number of regular force members attached (usually as RSS). 

In time of emergency, I doubt it would be too difficult to bolster the number of regulars to the 100-mark suggested. The Reserve units in question could look after themselves. That is, in 31 CBG alone there are no less than 18 regiments, covering an area running from Windsor to as far east as Toronto and as far north in Southwestern Ontario as Tobermory. Even assuming near-skeletal levels of manning (say 60 pers per unit), these units taken together at that minimal level could field 1,080 personnel, well in excess of the TDB targets. Just the RSS complement alone, assuming 5 - 10 per unit, works out to anywhere from 90 to as many as 180 troops.

What is needed is some means of very quickly mobilizing these units and ensuring that brigade command assets are in place waiting for their arrival at their posts. Quick mobilization is, IMHO the essence of a territorial defence brigade.


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## dapaterson (26 Jul 2007)

Eland:  keep in mind that reserve unit strengths generally include significant number sof personnel who are not yet fully trained and are therefore not employable.  The regular force personnel posted to units generall include one clerk, one supply tech, and and officer and NCM in trade for the unit; that's not necessarily the force package you'll want on the ground.

You are right that the rapid mobilization (can we will use that word   ) of the REserves is a key challenge that needs to be addressed.


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## MarkOttawa (26 Jul 2007)

Globe story, July 26:

Hillier cool to Ottawa's reserve plan
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070726.wdefence26/BNStory/National/home



> Canada's top soldier appears to have sidelined the Conservative government's election promise to create 14 new army reserve units across the country that would be the first line of defence in case of natural or other disasters.
> 
> “We're not in the business of creating new reserve units,” Chief of Defence Staff General Rick Hillier told the CBC. “We have sufficient units. … We don't need new units.”
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## GUNS (26 Jul 2007)

After promising a Rapid Response Force for CFB Goose Bay in the last election, you can take this to the bank. There will be no PC elected in Labrador.


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## SiG_22_Qc (26 Jul 2007)

Yay more paper batallions!


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## Spencer100 (26 Jul 2007)

GUNS said:
			
		

> After promising a Rapid Response Force for CFB Goose Bay in the last election, you can take this to the bank. There will be no PC elected in Labrador.



Was there ever a chance?


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## GUNS (27 Jul 2007)

Not now.


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## GK .Dundas (27 Jul 2007)

Should I care if Goose Bay gets it's bribe or not ?


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## MarkOttawa (27 Jul 2007)

An uneven power struggle ("provisions of Copyright Act etc")
_Globe and Mail_ editorial, June 27
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070727/EHILLIER27/Editorials/commentEditorials/commentEditorials/3/3/3/



> It should not be left to Canada's top soldier to announce significant changes in Ottawa's approach to the nation's security. But there was General Rick Hillier, Chief of Defence Staff, this week casually shelving the Conservative government's election promise to create 14 new army reserve units. Meanwhile, his boss, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor, was once again missing from the political action.
> 
> The apparent policy reversal popped up almost inadvertently as Gen. Hillier discussed the Tory commitment to station the reserve territorial battalions, each with 100 regular troops and 400 reservists, as emergency response units in major urban centres across the country. "We're not in the business of creating new reserve units," he told the CBC. "We have sufficient units.... We don't need new units." He added that the military has opted to revamp its existing reserve units to meet the spirit of that Conservative vow.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Jul 2007)

Just more 'Mop & Pail' anti CPC bullshit. If it's not a Liberal initiative, you can rest assured, they will make a mountain from a molehill. I don't know why they don't just print a big red LiberaL banner across the top of every issue. They have to be one of, if not the most, biased propaganda rags in the country. Good waste of a tree, unless your lining the bird cage or litter box.


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## GK .Dundas (27 Jul 2007)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Just more 'Mop & Pail' anti CPC bullshit. If it's not a Liberal initiative, you can rest assured, they will make a mountain from a molehill. I don't know why they don't just print a big red LiberaL banner across the top of every issue. They have to be one of, if not the most, biased propaganda rags in the country. Good waste of a tree, unless your lining the bird cage or litter box.


 I tend to agree with it though, Harper has to get rid of O'Connor the problem is that he can't really . The political cost would very high perhaps too high. 
 Harper has been a failure when it has come to explaining his polices on Afghanistan.Well not a absolute failure we're still in Afghanistan.Simply put it has to do a better job of convincing the Canadian public of the rightness of what we as a country are doing.


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## Osotogari (28 Jul 2007)

Mobilization of militia units and/or Territorial defence - Interesting concept, but it seems that for the last 20 or so years the reserve force has been little more than a temp agency for hastily planned missions that are manned according to the peacekeeping augmentation method of the late 1980's and early 1990's.  There seems little effort in maintaining the existing reserve force beyond that to the point where, from where I'm sitting in 41 Bde, collective training is de-emphasized to the point where the objective seems to be to get individuals to DAG green when they report for pre-training seems to be the only consistent training objective.  

I don't think we need more units, though outlying companies in many cases would help with manning problems and give some top-heavy organisations some more legitimacy.  I'm still a big advocate of calling up reserve brigades or units  for missions, political costs aside for the moment, similar to the National Guard with the same employment guarantees for returning soldiers rather than going with a 20-year-old method that from an augmentee's point of view is rife with cap badge politics and infighting.  

That's not to say that our disaster response capability doesn't need work.  I shudder to think of any number of scenarios occuring from a west coast earthquake, big jetliner crash up north, an attack or other catastrophic breach of an oil pipeline in an isolated area, or anything else because right now if we can't get there by LSVW then we can't get there at all.

To conclude, we've been hacked, slashed, and bureacratized to the point where it is going to take the rest of the current generation's time in service to fix it.  Thank God Hillier is where he is right now, I hope his successor is cut from the same cloth.


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## Journeyman (28 Jul 2007)

I wish our media wasn't so clueless and/or biased. There's simply no third option to explain their performance.

One of the CDS' key roles is to provide military advice to the government in power, as well as the opposition parties and Senate. 

Saying “We have sufficient units. … We don't need new units,” is _advice._ Not once did the article (the substantive portions, rather than the journalists' anti-Conservative "interpretation") indicate that Hillier said, "screw you government, we're not doing what you've ordered." Despite the journalists' hand-wringing, no change of policy by the CDS occurred.

Perhaps if they knew how the Canadian government was organized to operate, the media might have the competent ability to comment on whether or not it is in fact operating correctly. I guess their community college journalism certificate didn't include anything as basic as even _Canadian Politics 101_.  :


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## daftandbarmy (28 Jul 2007)

Here's a good idea for a new type of military unit that will meet all political objectives: a 100% female peacekeeping force, complete with stylish blue cam outfits...

http://www.bbcworld.com/Pages/ProgrammeFeature.aspx?id=43&FeatureId=64


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## Long in the tooth (28 Jul 2007)

I don't believe the PM appreciates the Militia's important history and footprint in communities.  On the other hand, Reserve units need to be more amenable to changes in structure, roles and tasks.  They can't remain a museum piece display of former campaigns.


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