# New Promotion System



## RGauthier (23 Sep 2004)

I just got in from cadets tonight where I was told that a new ranking system is now being put in place. Promotions are no longer based on a Cadets Merit, ex. volunteer work, corps commitment, etc. but that it is just based on the star level you have completed. people who are green star qualified automaticly get Private, and so on. in order to get MWO and CWO you have to have held the previous rank for 6 monthes and have NSCE. With this system the corps quotia system is obsolete, you can have as many MCpl's Sgt's , WO's .etc as CO's want in the corps. I was just wondering, what do you guys think about this new system?


later all  



------------------------------------------------------
Cadet Master Corporal R.Gauthier
285 RCACC
NSH


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## THEARMYGUY (23 Sep 2004)

If that is indeed the new system then  I can see the corps structures out there going to hell in a handbasket soon.  The quota is there to maintain an even number of leaders to subordinates.  It ensures( if done correctly) a good instructor to trainee ratio.  I hope that this is not the way of the future as we will have a very large number a senior ranks in a very short time.  To many chiefs and not enough Indians.  This is just my opinion but I like the quota system and I think it works.  I can see however that cadets may like a new system like that in the first post because it ensures that you get rank if you hang around and do the courses.

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


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## Sunnyk (23 Sep 2004)

No you cant.

Look into the ERCO's and see what they say. You have a maximum of position per quota of the corps.

TRue enought that green star goes with private, red with cpl and the rest...BUT to be a WO and up you need to have at least, one CLI and the rest goes to merit.

Thats how I work.


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## RGauthier (23 Sep 2004)

I agree with it from private to master corporal, but for Sgt and above I do thing it's stupid, for the reasons that you stated Army Guy. I believe that you should earn Senior ranks, not have them handed to you. and I saying this even thought this new system got me promoted tonight and may get me promoted to Sgt next weekl. but stiill, it's the ethics, THE ETHICS!!!   :-\


oh btw SunnyK it's a new system that is currently being instituted nationally within the Army Cadet Corps. Every Corps is being changed to this promotion system <according to my reliable sources.


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## THEARMYGUY (23 Sep 2004)

How reliable is your source M/Cpl???

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


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## RGauthier (23 Sep 2004)

the REgional CIC Officer for Nova Scotia, my CO and my corps Admin officer.


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## big_castor (23 Sep 2004)

Tren said:
			
		

> Promotions are no longer based on a Cadets Merit, ex. volunteer work, corps commitment, etc. but that it is just based on the star level you have completed. people who are green star qualified automaticly get Private, and so on. in order to get MWO and CWO you have to have held the previous rank for 6 monthes and have NSCE. With this system the corps quotia system is obsolete, you can have as many MCpl's Sgt's , WO's .etc as CO's want in the corps. I was just wondering, what do you guys think about this new system?



You might want to re-check your notes from that meeting.     

http://www.cadets.ca/armcad/ranks-grades/4_e.asp

That would be the same kind of minimum standards before receiving a promotion that exist for Sea and Air Cadets. Yes, promotion up to and including Cpl are just based on star level (not unlike the promotion to Cpl in the CF) but Summer training is no longer a mandatory requirement for promotions   - we don't want to penalize a cadet because he's unavailable for summer training or the Corps couldn't find a slate for him.   

Maybe your Corps had a very weird promotion system and your CO just told that from now on, your'e going to do things the right way ? (I had to do that speech to my cadets last year : not fun...)


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## Nobby (25 Sep 2004)

There is indeed a new system coming into place for rank structure. However, it simply means that there will be less importance put on rank, and more put on a cadet NCO's job (ie section commander, plt WO). Essentially, the regions are now supposed to endorse the platoon/company system that everyone is familiar with at camp, depending on unit numbers. Of course there is a chance that this total focus on job and not rank will create dysfunctional units with very slack junior NCO's.


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## primer (26 Sep 2004)

Sounds like the old ways back in the 80s.If you had a Position you got the rank...


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## Zedic_1913 (26 Sep 2004)

My understanding has been that summer camps are no longer prerequisites for rank.  The only prerequisite is Star Level.  This does not mean ranks are automatically awarded, Promotion to MCpl and above are also based on merit (since there is a limited number allowed for each cadet corps).


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## Ranger (27 Sep 2004)

so what is the required amount of Mcpls??
because our corps jsut had a co's parade and we now have 22 MCpls...and 6 Sgts

ps. Zedic_1913, are you Keane or his brother?


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## dano (27 Sep 2004)

Q Y Rang, 

You can use this http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/4003A_e.pdf to explain you're question.
Hope it sheds some light.


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## Ranger (28 Sep 2004)

thanks


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## Sgt_McWatt (28 Sep 2004)

I wish it was half that easy. One thing I have learned through cadets that isn't in the training manual is that there is always politics. No matter how hard you try to make the perfect corp. You need to understand that as much as people say that promotion is based on merit or qualifications, its not true. Myself and my friend go on FTXs with other corps to offer our skills. One corp we went out with had 7 people in the same family.One Major, one Captin, and 5 cadets. It was horrible. 

Regards,


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## Sgt_McWatt (29 Sep 2004)

I'm not saying its necessarily a bad thing to have people from the same family in the same unit....However I'm saying its very rare for anything good to come of it. Even if they are decent people and function souly on merit they will still be accused of favouritism by jealous people.


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## RGauthier (29 Sep 2004)

I know this doesn;t apply to some but it seems that a few have not gotten what I have been saying. there are no longer a set number for the amount of ranks you are aloud to have. Corps can now have an unlimited number of each rank as long as the cadet has completed the required star level.


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## q_1966 (5 Oct 2004)

I never heard of it, but ill find out more about it, thanx

Mcpl. Papke
1787 RMRANG, Salmon Arm B.C.


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## Sgt.Fitzpatrick (8 Oct 2004)

This is bad because your have a lot more cadets a ranks which will destory the chain of command.


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## Ranger Rick (8 Oct 2004)

I don't understand why it was changed. Promotion based on qualification and merit made much more sense. To me at least. Any one agree?


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## Ward1859 (8 Oct 2004)

Hell, I wouldn't have it any other way. MCpls and down I can see no set limit. Sgts and up, yes, definetly, there should be a limit. It only makes sense! A corps of 20 cadets with 10 Sgts or over. That makes sense... :


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## Sgt_McWatt (9 Oct 2004)

Exactly, thats why were starting to see corps with to many chiefs and not enough Indians.


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## Saiko (9 Oct 2004)

ummm, i wuz just wunderin, i wuz told at suma camp dat privates to mcpl's were junior nco's, and sgt and above wuz senior nco's, but all the guys in my corp disagree, im just makin sure...


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## Scott (10 Oct 2004)

Obviously not using spellchecker.


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## Inch (10 Oct 2004)

Scott, it's the new english, you frickin dinosaur!


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## Scott (10 Oct 2004)

Jeez, guess I musta mist dat. Tanks, Inch, you da man.


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## Ward1859 (10 Oct 2004)

Man..Alberta can keep you.


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## Scott (10 Oct 2004)

Read through ALL of the thread then learn to understand sarcasm and humour. Ta ta until then.


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## Ward1859 (10 Oct 2004)

I just joking man.  Gee.


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## steve-0401 (5 Nov 2004)

I think that any kind of promo system that allows a corps to have a disproportionate number of senior NCOs is a bunch of bs.  OUr corps has a system that works extremely well.  OPur cadets understand that promotions mean something.  The Red Stars that have done a camp successfully have the rank of trooper.  The Silver Stars that have done one camp have corporal and the Gold Stars have MCPL.  After that there is one Sgt, that has written NSCE but failed only barely, and myself and the RSM, who have passed NSCE with marks in the top three of the province, and i have completed Advamced Training in the form of the Basic Para course, that hold the Ranks of MWO and CWO respectively, after that all of the other cadets have no rank whatsoever.  This system allows the cadets to appreciate the gravity of a promotion and it allows the Seniors to demand respect from the lower ranks.

Cheers,


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## j.babin (16 Nov 2004)

An important thing to look at in this discussion is who decides when you get promoted. The CO of the unit looks at several different things including star levels, attendance, camps, attitude, potential, overall performance in the previous rank and yes Quotas are still used. In some regions there is a requirement by the detachment to send in justification for promotions over Sgt.


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## aj_olsen (22 Nov 2004)

i have been in for six months and i am a second private


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## gt102 (22 Nov 2004)

.. second private?.... 

ranks go 

Recruite (unofficial)
Cadet (after 6 weeks, again unofficial)
Private
Corperal
so on, and so on


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## Burrows (22 Nov 2004)

ARMYBOI..this is not a sh**throw forum..  Some people are given advanced promotions becasue of age because maybe the officers see leadership potential or for any other reasons they have..If you must know..ASK YOUR OFFICERS!.  There is nothing that says age = rank. its qualification and ability.. If you behave like a little clown its not going to get you promoted.


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## Burrows (22 Nov 2004)

hmmm...you joined the ARMY cadets right?

As it has been said before..

Tough..the army is not fair..Ruck up and soldier on.  This is cadets not the real army..this kid doesnt have 5 years like you do to become a high rank.


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## Alex252 (22 Nov 2004)

*I am very professional with Cadets* 

Please explain how you are professional when youre 1) A private not holding that much responsibility(correct me if im wrong) 2) How can you be a professional cadet when its not a profession? 


			
				Burrows said:
			
		

> hmmm...you joined the ARMY cadets right?
> 
> As it has been said before..
> 
> Tough..the army is not fair..Ruck up and soldier on. This is cadets not the real army..this kid doesnt have 5 years like you do to become a high rank.


Yes


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## yoman (22 Nov 2004)

I joined at 14 and I dont expect to get promoted to LAC or something just because i'm a bit older then the other people. As everybody else was saying it circumstantial to the situation. Although I did get bumbed to level 2.


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## chriscalow (22 Nov 2004)

If you are going to come on and whine and complain "it's not fair" about a promotion, then you probably need a little work in the maturity department anyways.  Getting promoted doesn't just mean you get to boss more of your buddies around, it is a mature and responsible position, and if you officers didn't "give it" to you then you don't deserve it yet.  Demonstrate that you can handle the job and show some patience and you will get what comes to you.


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## dano (22 Nov 2004)

Alex, are you absolutely positive you know what you are saying when you said

"How can you be a professional cadet when its not a profession?"

I would really like this to be explained to me from Alex.


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## ouyin2000 (22 Nov 2004)

I agree that rank is not based on age.

their may be people that join older than you, and get promoted sooner...but I am sure that because of their age, they are bumped up a star level or 2, provided they challenge the required tests, and pass them.

also, it is possible to send someone to their first year of camp, as a 15 yr old to CL, and not just Basic


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## Alex252 (22 Nov 2004)

No prob Dano, youre right i guess i left it a little to vague. A CIC or Cadet Instructor Cadre officer is a profession or a job whatever you want to call it. Now maybe because Ive just had bad experiences with cadets and this is somewhat a biased opinion, Cadets is an organization right? Now I'll give some lee-way in saying that some cadets who hold a higher rank eg WO, SGT etc it can *almost* be a profession(correct me if im wrong again) Youre not employed by anyone therfore not making it a profession. Now on the other hand you can have cadets who *work* in professional ways. Any better Dano?


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## chriscalow (22 Nov 2004)

"Now on the other hand you can have cadets who WORK in professional ways".  I think that's the appropriate explanation.  Well said.


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## gt102 (22 Nov 2004)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> also, it is possible to send someone to their first year of camp, as a 15 yr old to CL, and not just Basic



yup... Happened to 2 cadets in my core this year... Just hope you are lucky if your 16 and not get sent to basic like my sgt haha


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## Lexi (22 Nov 2004)

6 months as a Cdt and counting...


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## Crazy_Eyes (22 Nov 2004)

ArmyBoi69 i think it's an age thing, there's people in my corps that have been in for 3 years and I'm the same rank and star level as them and i joined last year. Why? Because i'm older and un like them i dont have the full time to get to higher levels, so i was allowed to challenge tests and get promoted faster. As for them getting the same rank as you right a way did you consider that possibility that maybe they transfered from another corps? if your whining about little things like that maybe there's a reason your still only a private :


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## Scott (22 Nov 2004)

Let's relax and tone it down a bit guys. 

Professionalism is the embodiment of an attitude. It's how you give and take direction, criticism, discipline, etc. It doesn't matter what you do in life, you can still be professional about it.


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## dano (22 Nov 2004)

I agree with Armyboi here, 
Most responses he gets are almost always negative. Give and you receive. Which actually lately he has been receiving, but not giving.  
Excellent.


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## Scott (22 Nov 2004)

OK, point that Armyboy hasn't risen to the bait lately taken, now, does anyone have anything else to add regarding the topic?


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## sgt_mandal (22 Nov 2004)

I joined when I was 13 (in February), got promoted to LAC in September the following year, then Cpl at christmas that same year, then got shafted for my Sgts, which i got the next christmas, which leaves me with my FSgts which I got about 6 weeks ago.


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## Sgt_McWatt (24 Nov 2004)

I joined when I was 12. Got double promoted to Cpl. at end of first year. I got MCpl. at Christmas of year after, and just got my seargents mid last year, and my WO.'s this year.
Regards,


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## q_1966 (26 Nov 2004)

My core has come out with a new system where you have to apply for a promotion, like applying for a job, then you have to do a test (out of redstar fundamentals, and for higher ranks, you also do the leadership definition section), then theres an interview, the interviewing board for me was the RSM, CO, a CI, Air Cadet Capt. that i didnt know and a Civilian i didnt know) anyways, I think its good if your in a situation where you do an excellent job, but dont get promoted because the higher ranks look at all the bad points rather than good, it gives everyone a fair chance, level playing field so to speak.

- Shawn


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## dano (26 Nov 2004)

Our corp does it similar to that. We have to apply for our positions. Cadets choosing Platoon Commanders and above all had to get interviewed.
I chose Platoon 2ic. I would never have thought I would actually be chosen for Plt Cmdr and be promoted to Warrant.


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## primer (26 Nov 2004)

ARMYboi69 said:
			
		

> I find that system to be very unfair
> 
> I want to be noticed because I've done 8 hours of standing selling poppies.   I want to be recognized because I did the vigil when it was optional.   I want to be seen because I have never missed a night of Cadets or a weekend Exercise.   I want to be recognized because of what I have earned.   I *DON'T* want to be recognized because I came to the Corps when I felt like for a year :
> 
> Cadets have to be selected because they are comitted to the Corps and they are mature people who will only do the Corps good.



 Thanks for selling poppies and standing a vigil. Is that what you wanna here.

Trust me troop you have been noticed.

keep up the Great work


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## Burrows (26 Nov 2004)

All will come in time army boi all in time...many times people who didnt deserve promotions were promoted over me...this doesnt stop me and all I do is keep doing what I do...although my CO not promoting me then saying Oh my god Burrows is less than 15 minutes early for *insert function* is kind of cruel...although its all in good humour...both the officers NCOs and myself know I do good work and thus I may not be a sgt but I get all the taskings which require a head rather than a rank.


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## Docherty (27 Nov 2004)

Hey, I just want to say I have only been promoted twice in 4 years but that just happens its better to be a lower rank and better trained than a higher rank and poorly trained.  So you may say the system is unfair but Cadets isn't all about glory it's a system to develop youth leaders withing Canada.


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## sgt_mandal (27 Nov 2004)

I was a Cpl for about a year, and after I got shafted for my Sgts, the new Cpls respected that I had more time in then them, so they would listen and respect me as though i were a higher rank. Its not just the rank on your sleeves, but also the way u carry yourself. If you always fussing over and fixing little things on your subordinates that seem to go unnoticed by everyone else it makes you look better and the cadets will look at you with reverence.


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## Burrows (27 Nov 2004)

couldnt have said it better myself mandal..


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## madchicken (30 Nov 2004)

Okay, I think that this new promotion system is bull.  I can't believe that something so stupid would be implemented!!  Seriously, I am outraged!!  I've been a Cpl for almost a year because promotions in my corps were hard to come by, because we were very small.  At first I was not please being a Cpl for a year, but it has also taught me alot of things.  With this new promotion system, I could easily make sergent at the end of the year.  I wouldn't want that, I want to work hard and earn my rank.  Also, this would give some undeserving cadets in my corps a chance to get somewhere they don't belong.  I'm gonna ask my admin officer tomorrow night to shed light on this.


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## madchicken (30 Nov 2004)

Army boi, I've heard your story and can completely relate.  As I've already said, I've been a cpl for almost a year now, and even though the other corporals don't respect me, I certinly do have the respects of my NCO's and cadets.  You want to know what you can do to stand out, try your hardest at things when your not with your corps.  For example, summer camp.  I went to vernon for CL and I did the best in my platoon, and I had some pretty tough compititon.  That got me a nice shiny plaque and a great course report.  Later in september my training officer congradulated me.  So I was recognised for that, and because I've done so well I've gotton a posistion on parade.  I'm now on color gaurd, and my warrant just dosn't let anyone on her gaurd.  So all I'm saying is just try your hardest, make yourself noticed, and take part in extra training, or even just show intrest in it.  For exaple Pre-NSCE.  But for now, all I can say is good luck and just be happy with the rank you are now.

Peace!


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## Sgt_McWatt (30 Nov 2004)

I can also relate. I was double promoted to Cpl. at the end of my first year along with some of the other top candidates. Then at Christmas the following year I got MCpl. I was MCpl. up until mid-late last year. The I got Sgt. and WO. This year.


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## q_1966 (16 Dec 2004)

How many cadets per platoon do you have

- Shawn


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## Burrows (16 Dec 2004)

TomGledhill said:
			
		

> My CO is giving off promotions like crazy as well, but i do not agree with him. Although I am glad I am a Sgt Mjr, we do not have enough cadets anymore for what our CO is trying to do. We do not have enough platoon warrant officers, nor anyone to fill the positions, but he still see's it fit to have to company Sgt Mjrs. The way it is right now, is we only have 2 warrant officers for our 4 platoons, and 2 company Sgt Mjrs, and the RSM. What he wants to do is promote me to DSM, and promote one of the platoon warrants to CSM. What I think he should do, is demote the CWO to Sgt Mjr, and demote the other CSM and myself to warrant officer and have us as acting company commanders. I think this should be done because he is stretching us way to thin. I am interested in what your comments or reply's are.
> 
> Tom Gledhill




If he wants a new PL WO...Ill move to wherever you live...


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## Meridian (16 Dec 2004)

I have never been a part of the Cadet Corps, so I'll say that right now.

But from reading these replies, I get the impression that many of you feel "owed" some kind of promotion, constantly, just for showing up and doing the "job".

1) Not everyone is cutout to be a leader. This is why some corporals stay corporals for their entire careers in the CF. Does this mean that that corporal was a slacker? That he was terrible at his/her job? No. It measns they were not selected for a superior rank for whatever reasons, may just be they dont have leadership potential.

2) An extension of this is probably a better lesson to take away from the authority structure in Cadets and in the world in general - being a leader does not make you better than anyone. Being selected to become a commissionned officer does not make you that much better than a Sgt who has 20 years or even  10 years in. 

Being a leader encompasses a different set of responsabilities and expectations, which for a variety of reasons are not always best suited for some people. Often, these responsibilities are not even the kind of thing an individual even wants to do.... I know plenty of young corporals and privates who told me they never had any interest in becoming an officer, and I was just talking with a young corporal who has the option to become a Mcpl (CF speaking, not cadets) and who at this time would prefer to remain Corporal... he has been selected, and is still turning a leadership rank down.

3) Another example. Say you complete your time with Cadets at the rank of corporal. You have glowing recommendations from your CO and OC(s) stating how you were always on time, you excelled at  your work, you were dedicated, etc.  Say at the same time that you get someone who was a CWO. Same glowing recommendations as you, but was all over the map, and has some additional comments about leadership skills. 

If you both apply to become a private in the forces, you would I would hopefully assume both be considered (all other things equal) equally for the position.    An OCdt position is different, given the leadershiop skills required, but my point here is that all ranks are valuable, and all too often people look up to those with "the power" and say that they are better than those down below.


Always remember that those "above" do not exist without those "below"

There is no need to have CIC officers if there are no cadets.


Cheers, and best of luck to all of you in your cadet (and hopefully future CF) "careers."




(oh, on the topic of professionalism, I agree, again, it is an embodiement of attitude, it does not mean you have to be practising a profession. I would also not liken Cadets necessarily to that of a job, but rather as a mutual traninig organization - you receive valuable skills, and thus also support others in receiving their skills  so that you all end up better contributors to society as adults.


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## catalyst (16 Dec 2004)

Wow....

Good post Meridian


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## flip_masta (16 Dec 2004)

hey ive been in for more the 5 years....top marks in all star levels....top 5 in nsce...only master cadet in the corp....have a wall full of awards,recognitions and plaques...have amazing course reports from camp...even parade positions..have been out of region every year for competitions and courses....been to NAtional Expedition in New Brunswick......and yet i was just a warrant until 3 weeks ago......ive waited 2 and a half years in order to get mwo......i think this indicates something that with all your qualifications....it all depends on ur CO.....if u can suck up and be on ur CO's good side then ull get promoted....if not then ur S.O.L...............this is my last year and u kno wat.....sumtimes u just gotta suck it up and go on.....


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## Meridian (17 Dec 2004)

While I will not sit here and pretend that anyone (including me) that anyone appreciates it when they are overlooked for good deeds...

What are you doing all these deeds for?

You know, one of the things we all hated about ex-cadets when I came into RMC was that they never sh-up about all the things they had done in Cadets.


It's great to be proud of what you've done, but I think one of the best virtues anyone can learn is self-appreciation, rather than the reliance on others to appreciate them.

We all want to be lauded and congratulated, but you should feel good about the things you have accomplished flip-masta. If you do, it doesn't really matter if you get that promotion.


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## armygurl_557 (20 Dec 2004)

> I find that system to be very unfair
> 
> I want to be noticed because I've done 8 hours of standing selling poppies.   I want to be recognized because I did the vigil when it was optional.   I want to be seen because I have never missed a night of Cadets or a weekend Exercise.   I want to be recognized because of what I have earned.   I DON'T want to be recognized because I came to the Corps when I felt like for a year
> 
> Cadets have to be selected because they are committed to the Corps and they are mature people who will only do the Corps good.





Why are you mad at doing Poppy sales? I did 6 shifts of poppy selling, 4 hours each. Poppy's should not be a chore. Thats something you should be proud to do, thats you taking a few hours to Remember the Veterans who Gave their LIFE so you could be free! The Legionnaires knew my name by the Time Remembrance day Came around. I loved doing the Parades and Poppy sales, i did both parades and all poppy sales. This is what Cadets is trying to do, Support The community, or at least thats what my corps does. Voluntarism is good. If You want to get promoted then don't complain EVER (even when your not around your cadet friends) about a few poppy sales or tagging shifts. My officers and the Legionaries telling me that I didn't to run My Corps single handedly it was okay to take a shift or two off. My goal this year is to Get the Volunteer Award, because the Cpl that got it last year didn't deserve it. 




 And Actually with the New System my corps has installed, it works extremely well. We went from a corps of 30 cadets in the 2002-2003 year to a corps of 120 cadets in 2003-2004 and now we are a corps of 180 this year. i don't even think we had enough cadets for 1 company before i joined, and now we have three. My CO gave out promotions like CRAZY, but we needed it and we are an amazing corps, so many of us deserved it.. Like Dano, when i joined last year, he was my friends section commander, only a Mcpl. Then when I got Pte, Dano Got Sgt. then we had more promotion and then I got Cpl and he stayed Sgt. Then we all went off to Camp ( I went twice this summer! Basic army and Basic Pipes and Drums!!) And when we got back we had our FTX there we were told we had to Apply for positions. they say it doesn't matter what you apply for, because you wont necessarily get that, but they wanted to see who was willing to tell the officers what positions that they wanted. they had definitions and stuff on the form, so it wasn't like just asking for a promotion, they wanted to show us that they were serious. When the CO's Parade came the Next week, we had the National Post there and Members from Both Legions. When People Got Promoted, you really felt special because there was SO many people watching, all of them Important. There really was a few positions that didn't get enough people put to it, like Platoon WO and Sgts(We have 6 Platoons and 4 WO's , so two platoons are led by Sgts and With Sgt, there are NO female Sgts, so they dint trust Mcpls to help the female cadets and I wouldnt either, So our 2 female warrants do all the Bitch Work like they were still Sgts.) So now at our next Promotions night, the 3 females who did CL and just got promoted to silver star are getting Sgt even though 2 of them are BLOND , and the only reason that they did CL was that two of them turned 14 before camp started, But another was 17 so she had to do CL.


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## Burrows (20 Dec 2004)

HOLY SHIT!!!! THAT WAS THE BEST RANT EVER!!!! I LOVE YOU! (In a total polykarmic not pusnishable under the CHAP regulation way..)  *Whisper* call me  *Whisper*

And ArmyBoi, 
You need a Hobby....All you post here and on some other forums is basically all a different way of asking how can I get a promotion.. Calm Down Boy... Deep Breaths...Thinking Before you post..etc...This was a warning for all of you out there..

Regards,
Herr General
Burrows


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## primer (20 Dec 2004)

Well said armygurl557 


Its a good thing shes on our side  if we need her :threat:


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## Burrows (20 Dec 2004)

Army Gurl.... You win the Burrowses (Yes I know its spelt Burrows' )Smartest Cookie Award - - Please put in your signature.... Burrows' Smartest Cookie... If you would be so kind


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## armygurl_557 (20 Dec 2004)

Thats an Honor To have in My Signature Burrows. But its true, if you don't like to participate in volunteer events, and complaine about poppy sales and STILL have the Nerve to complain about not getting a promotion, than i don't think cadets is for you. 


                                                                              Caroline


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## Burrows (20 Dec 2004)

I LOVE THIS GIRL!!!  And that sig..I must say..is AWESOME


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## armygurl_557 (20 Dec 2004)

Thanks Burrows!! But its true..


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## Scott (21 Dec 2004)

Way to go armygurl, I commend you. It's nice to see maturity like this from our Cadet members, I hope that others can take this as a fine example of how attitudes should be. Cadets is something that you can make the most or least out of, it's up to you. When I was in Cadets we did all sorts of fundraising and I never heard tell of someone getting a promotion for selling poppies or handing out tags, they always did it because they reaped the rewards of their efforts in getting to go on bush trips, ski trips, visits to other Sqn's/Corps, etc.

I used to sell programmes at the Shearwater Airshow, I'd work for half the day and spend the other half looking at the aircraft, that was always reward enough. Sometimes the reward for doing a job is the satisfaction that you did the job well and without complaint. Unpaid work is sometimes its own reward.

Lots of organizations who will hire you guys look at volunteer work, the CF being one of them. I volunteered as a firefighter for 2 years before going full time and never did I see it as a hassle because the money I helped to raise bought us state of the art equipment which, when it all boiled down, was responsible for ensuring that I could do my job safely and provide a better service to the residents of our district.

Funding doesn't just fall from the sky and in todays world we see far more of the "give me" attitude, I think it's refreshing to see youth out paying their own way so to speak.

It would be nice to give Cadets a huge budget so that they could spend more of their time doing "Cadet like" stuff, fact is that money is tight for organizations like Cadets, Scouts, Junior Firefighters, Guides, etc. So you have to get out there and raise it for yourselves. Once again, it's what you make of it.

$0.02


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## armygurl_557 (21 Dec 2004)

Thankyou  scott1nsh but I severly dislike it when cadets go and Complaine about the work that Cadets do, and still expect to be eligble to attend trips and FTXs. Where do they get off?


                                                                                                       Caroline


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## Scott (21 Dec 2004)

My point now expanded.

I used to hate the guys in the Volunteer Fire Dept who never showed up for any of our fundraising efforts yet were the first to get new gear or go on courses. This point was brought up at a meeting of our members and we started to record these things on a spreadsheet, "FF Bloggins did 75% of the nights he was asked to work at dances, bingos, boot drives, etc. FF Smith only did 25%, maybe Bloggins should go onto a course before Smith as he appears to be much more interested and involved in the Dept" We had success immediately after instituting this program. Problem is that we were _Volunteers_ we all had full time jobs and many guys had wives and children, how much time becomes too much? I mean, we already were providing an emergency service to the community and still we raised our own money so that we could provide better services to them, it didn't seem fair at times. With Cadets you guys have school, family life, boyfirends/girlfriends, sports, etc. Cadets has to fit into this schedule somewhere. While I was in Cadets I maintained a good average at school, played 'A' hockey, hunted, fished and still went on visiting trips all over the countryside with my family. Cadets was something I enjoyed but it was a major commitment at times and there were times when I had to say no. The Fire Dept was the same.

I don't agree with promoting the Cadets who are the most active in fundraising events, you should promote based on experience, drive, dedication, ability. But maybe when a ski trip comes up the first ones to go should be the ones who helps to raise the money so that you could attend said ski trip. The same holds true for the Volunteer Fire Dept. Equip the men the same, train them to a basic level, but when it comes to doing "fun" stuff such as golf, curling, darts and hockey tournaments send the guys who work the most and raise the money to do these things. Never promote a fundraiser, promote a good leader.

Another $0.02


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## Meridian (21 Dec 2004)

scott1nsh said:
			
		

> I don't agree with promoting the Cadets who are the most active in fundraising events, you should promote based on experience, drive, dedication, ability. But maybe when a ski trip comes up the first ones to go should be the ones who helps to raise the money so that you could attend said ski trip. The same holds true for the Volunteer Fire Dept. Equip the men the same, train them to a basic level, but when it comes to doing "fun" stuff such as golf, curling, darts and hockey tournaments send the guys who work the most and raise the money to do these things. Never promote a fundraiser, promote a good leader.



Kind of applies to Canada's social programs on the whole, IMHO 

Cheers for your input.


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## armygurl_557 (21 Dec 2004)

I agree With You 100%


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