# Advice appreciated - Is this normal or am I screwed? (DEO)



## BlueFalcon109 (5 Oct 2019)

Okay let me start this off with saying THE CAF DOES NOT OWE ME A JOB.

Here's the situation I'm in.

I applied as a DEO candidate in May of 2019 hoping to take the AEC and possibly ACSO route. I wrote my CFAT and conducted the TSD in July, and was fairly confident with how well I did (of course they did not share my results with me) and qualified for both AEC and ACSO as well as several other occupations such as NWO and MP and no issues arose from my TSD. 

Naturally, while waiting for my security screening to clear, the CFRC had me booked for aircrew selection at Trenton in September as the next step in my application (for those of you who do not know, anyone pursuing a role as an AEC/ACSO/PILOT needs to go through 8 hours of rigorous computer based simulations over the span of two days at Trenton). I completed Aircrew Selection, and did fairly well. Out of the 21 people in my group, only 7 qualified for any of the three trades with me qualifying for both ACSO and AEC, and barely missing the mark for PILOT.

When I was being debriefed by the recruitment officer about my test scores she asked me which role I wanted to apply for, and I told her I only wanted to do AEC and asked her if my scores were competitive. She told me that I scored well above average for applicants who met the ACS cutoff applying for AEC, pointed at the results page in front of me and told me that the way the results are being represented on the paper are misleading and it understates how well I did for the AEC scoring. She then looked me in the eyes and with a dead serious tone said "your score is competitive". 

After I came back from Trenton, the last step was the medical and interview. A week before I was scheduled to go into the CFRC and conduct those last two components I received a call from my CFRC saying "There's only a handful of spots left for AEC for this year, so they upped the CFAT mimimum score, your score from July now no longer makes the cut, so you cant interview for AEC". I then asked about ACSO, and he said "they did the same for ACSO, and you no longer qualify for this either, but you still qualify for every other trade you originally qualified for in July." I told him I wasn't interested in anything else and he told me that I should close my file, and hope that CFAT minimum scores go back to what they were in 2020 when the new fiscal year begins and new allotment numbers come out for each trade and to try to book the interview for January (but no guarantees). 

I asked him what about my ACS score? He told me that my score has no bearing on this decision (so hypothetically a candidate could have set course records for ACS, but if they didn't score perfect on the CFAT, they'd have a risk of being pulled out of the application process at any given moment). He also told me that there was nothing wrong with my application in any of the other segments, but I just no longer meet the CFAT threshold. By that token, it means it doesn't matter how well an applicant does on any component of the application process such as the interview or in my case ACS, if you dont get perfect on the CFAT, you are vulnerable to being retroactively disqualified for a trade you had initially qualified for.

The member of my CFRC then told me that I need to understand that they have thousands and thousands of applications for all trades and that the DEO application method is lengthy. *What I'm trying to understand is this: * Is this the CAF's way of putting applicants who are still not merit listed close to the end of the current fiscal year on the back burner while they focus on other segments of applicants, or is this a unique situation where I'm basically dead in the water?

To be clear, I didn't have a cavalier attitude that I'd write the CFAT at the end of July of 2019, get merit listed, and given a job offer by the end of 2019 all in the span of 6 months, but I sure as heck wasn't expecting to be completely pulled out of the application process as a whole retroactively especially after successfully passing Aircrew Selection. 







TL;DR I've been retroactively disqualified for a trade I initially qualified for because they moved the CFAT minimum score up for it with no way of me counterbalancing this through other segments of my application and despite me showing promise in the subsequent job-specific testing.


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## ssrb653 (5 Oct 2019)

Would you be able to re-write your CFAT if that is the weaker points in your application? Do you know what your exact score is? 

I joined the Forces last year after 2 and a half year of wait in the application process. I would advice that you live your life as you like, get a job and do not wait on the military but keep current on your application and check on it frequently. If you do not make it this fiscal year maybe you will make it in the next one. 

I have a few friends that have gone the AEC route and from what I have heard is the course is very tough and the failure rate is high. This might be a way of the Air Force to get stronger candidates for the courses so the failure rate is decrease. But that is competently my opinion I don't know this for a fact.  

I suggest if you have another shot at taking the CFAT take it again and make your file more competitive. Once you are selected for AEC be prepared to work hard and study a lot. 

Don't be discourage many of us had to wait a very long time before we got to join. It is worth the wait.


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## BlueFalcon109 (5 Oct 2019)

Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement, ssrb. I’m glad to hear your persistence paid off. Yeah I’m going to see if I can redo the CFAT if my score is still too low in the new year. You’re right about how hard the training is in Cornwall. I made friends with an AEC in training who is half way done his course and he said half his cohort dropped out.


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## ssrb653 (5 Oct 2019)

I don't doubt your friend. It is a tough course, I know plenty of people who didn't finish their training. Keep working at and I am sure you will eventually make it. You have to stay persistent and never give up. Let me know how things go for you. If you need anything I could help you with let me know.


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## winds_13 (5 Oct 2019)

BlueFalcon109, what you were told is correct and while the minimum cut-offs on the CFAT rarely change, the competitive cut-offs sometimes do. When the number of positions for Pilot were significantly reduced this year, then closed with no outlook to re-open next year, many of the former Pilot applicants likely changed their occupation choices to ACSO and AEC... so the applicant pool changed, becoming much more competitive.  

Like it or not, the CFAT has significant weight when it comes to selections. My advice is to study and take it again. Best of luck.


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## BlueFalcon109 (6 Oct 2019)

Thanks for your advice and suggestions. I think I will go ahead and do just that and rewrite my CFAT in the new year if I still don't meet the threshold. In hindsight, I should be happy that the weak point in my application is my CFAT. Relative to the other components of the application such the Aircrew Selection score and personal history (criminal record, health conditions, schooling, debt, credit score, etc.), the CFAT is a cakewalk. I reckon I got a couple too many of those spatial questions wrong the first time I did it, nothing determination and practice can't overcome. 

I truly do appreciate the time you've taken to help me through this.


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## overwatch (9 Oct 2019)

Any idea what percentile your CFAT was?


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## BlueFalcon109 (9 Oct 2019)

No clue, Overwatch. I never actually got debriefed on my score. The recruiter just sat me down and listed all the trades I qualified for. The only ones I noticed were missing from all the options to someone with my educational background were Pilot & Intel O. If I were to guess a lowball estimate, I’d say I scored between 48-53 out of 60. I recall the only trouble I had was with a few of the spatial questions and one or two of the vocabulary ones.  Granted, I realize that doesn’t answer what percentile I was in.


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## overwatch (9 Oct 2019)

No worries. Ask your file manager and he'll tell you. It's interesting because I'm in it for AEC and haven't heard anything since merit listing (Sept 6). However, my file manager told me there were 15 spots left as of the beginning of September for this fiscal year.


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## BlueFalcon109 (9 Oct 2019)

Congrats, I wish you the best of luck. What I do know is that there are 5 spots left for this year. That’s what the file manager told me when he had to break the news.


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## overwatch (9 Oct 2019)

Thanks Blue! Keep your head up, most aspects about life are about persistence. This is no different, you got this.


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## BlueFalcon109 (9 Oct 2019)

Thanks for the kind words overwatch. Let me know when you get the offer call, I’m sure it’ll be within the near future!


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## lid (14 Oct 2019)

I got AEC earlier this month. 
The interviewer MCC can tell your CFAT, others can't. I think I'm about 56+/60, also ACS I was told "very very competitive" all my marks to the right end. Even though I missed ACSO, because when I'm into competition list it's already closed (around July).

This year CFRC have issues of reduced DEO pilot intake, also ACSO, making AEC more competitive. It' reasonable they raised the cut off score (old cut off I think was about 75%). In addition, rumour next year no DEO pilot, so ACSO AEC could be even more competitive.

You just applied this year so waiting next May shouldn't big issue (I applied 2017 and really learned patience). If you do not accept any other trades, CFRC would temporarily close your file (just few months), and reopen it next year (intake number should be published Jan, selection Apr, file reopen around Feb) to continue processing. 

If your CFAT is not substantially below new cut-off, you should try ask CFRC to continue processing Air Medical (take 4-5 months to complete), so to catch on next year new selection. If CFAT is really below cut-off, I don't know, try CFAT again. But, as I read you do CFAT July, if you wait 2020 July to score over, then Air-Medical another 4 months or so, would be 2020 Oct/Nov, by that time AEC could close again, and your file goes into 2021. Make an appointment with MCC now would be best way. Good luck.


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## BlueFalcon109 (15 Oct 2019)

lid said:
			
		

> I got AEC earlier this month.
> The interviewer MCC can tell your CFAT, others can't. I think I'm about 56+/60, also ACS I was told "very very competitive" all my marks to the right end. Even though I missed ACSO, because when I'm into competition list it's already closed (around July).
> 
> This year CFRC have issues of reduced DEO pilot intake, also ACSO, making AEC more competitive. It' reasonable they raised the cut off score (old cut off I think was about 75%). In addition, rumour next year no DEO pilot, so ACSO AEC could be even more competitive.
> ...



Congrats Lid! I'm glad to hear your persistence paid off  ;D. I took everyone's advice here on the forum and I already called my CFRC. I'm going to go ahead and just rewrite the CFAT in the new year regardless of what the new cut off will be. My logic is that this was a blessing in disguise because it uncovered a weakness in my overall application. I'd rather go through this trial and tribulation now rather than manage to get through to the competition list, but be hamstrung by a low CFAT. 

When is BMOQ for you, must be soon? You must be so excited! Except camping in the woods in Quebec during winter doesn't sound that great. haha  :rofl:


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