# CF pension reform and terms of service changes



## MJP (18 Nov 2004)

Over the last few months I've seen people refer to the pension reform and the changes to the terms of service, and usually give wrong advice or interpretations of both.   I've bit my tongue, mostly because I didn't know all the changes that were proposed myself.   I think a lot of bad info was conveyed by some really bad powerpoint presentations that were floating around a while back in the DIN email system.   I did quite a bit of research on them overseas, and recently had a brief on them at the unit, which was pretty thorough.

To clear up some misconceptions about both I've poached some info from a DND site as well as put in both URLs where you can get information.   It's pretty important stuff, for anyone in the military or thinking of joining the reserves or reg force.   

Pension Reform

Key changes include:
"¢ Two-year vesting
"¢ Twenty-five-year pension
"¢ De-linking pension eligibility from Terms of Service
"¢ Portability of pension credits
"¢ Pension coverage for Reserve Force
"¢ Greater administrative flexibility

The proposed amendments would provide greater flexibility for CF members by allowing breaks in service and transfers between components without adversely affecting pension credits earned. As well, members would be able to know well in advance of retirement or of reaching a particular Terms of Service gate what their pension benefit would be.

Changing needs and expectations are behind the introduction of unreduced pensions for members after they have served at least 25 complete years of paid CF service (regardless of their age). In a recent survey, serving CF members-like other Canadians-indicated an interest in job security for longer periods of time than under current Terms of Service. At the same time, members also expect the pension plan will continue to recognize the lifetime implications of long years as an active member of the CF. This 25-year pension scheme meets these needs and also provides a balanced way to accommodate both current retention pressures and the continuing requirements for maintaining the core capability of a modern military.

Members who have served for 10 years or more and who are released because their health no longer allows them to carry out their military duties would be entitled to an immediate pension. 

Retiring members who are not entitled to receive their pension until age 60 would be able to choose to receive their pension at any time between ages 50 and 60. In such cases, there would be a reduction in the monthly amount to take into account the fact that the pension would be paid over a longer period.

Members who qualify for deferred pensions when they leave the CF would, in specified circumstances, be able to transfer the actuarial value of their pension into another prescribed retirement savings vehicle.

These provisions, along with the lower vesting period (i.e., the minimum period required to qualify for a pension-type benefit) of two years and the greater portability of pension credits to other pension plans (authorized under earlier pension reform legislation) would give members more control and choice over their career paths and their financial and retirement planning.

Providing appropriate pension coverage for Reserve Force members is another important element of the overall pension modernization effort. As a result of the 1999 pension reform, regulations are being developed that would implement pension arrangements for the vast majority of Reservists who serve part-time or for limited periods of full-time service. These pension arrangements, however, are not suitable for Reservists who serve on a full-time basis for extended period of times.

Pension reform http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/7_03/7_03_cfsa_e.asp   This link also has some case scenarios if you scroll to the bottom.

Terms of Service

Career model

At the beginning of their careers, CF members would serve a variable, occupation-specific initial engagement of three to nine years with the length being determined by the responsible Managing Authority. (A Managing Authority is the organization responsible for an occupation, i.e., Army, Navy, Air Force or - for occupations common to all three - the Canadian Forces Recruiting, Education and Training System.) Occupations requiring lengthy or expensive training would have a longer initial engagement so the CF would realize a better return on investment.

After this initial engagement, members may be offered one of three TOS options, depending on the needs of the occupation and the

Managing Authority's policy:

an indefinite period of service until retirement age; 
an intermediate engagement of service to 25 years; or 
one or more continuing engagements. 
Option one - an indefinite period of service to retirement - could enhance retention and improve the member's sense of security. An indefinite period of service would be offered based on the requirements of the occupation, determined by annual military occupational reviews. The use of this option would be up to the applicable Managing Authority.

Option two - expanding the initial engagement to 25 years - is advantageous for officers who currently, if they service past 20 years, have to continue to 28 years' service to get an immediate unreduced annuity. This option is also preferred by non-commissioned members, who indicated to project researchers that they were too young to retire at 20 years' service and would rather serve to 25 years. After the intermediate engagement is completed at 25 years, members may be kept on through one or more continuing engagements or an indefinite period of service until retirement age, depending on the needs of the Managing Authority and the wishes of the member.

Option three - a series of continuing engagements after the initial engagement - will enable the environments to keep a person for a few more years, or cater to individual requests for short extensions.
The three options provide flexibility for management and a broader array of options for member.

For example the infantry is keeping the system they have in place right now.   Two 3 year BE/VIEs, followed usually by an IE offer.   The only change is the IE is now 25 years for a full unreduced 50% pension.

Terms of service changes http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=254 

I'll see if I can dig up the powerpoint presentation I was shown last week.   Breaks this down into very simple terms.   

Cheers


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## pbi (18 Nov 2004)

Thanks-extremely useful. Well done MJP. Cheers.


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## Zauster (18 Nov 2004)

This is definitally needed and I appreciate you posting it.   I'll be printing it off so I can now have somewhat of an upderstanding when ppl come to me.

Thanks


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## m_a_c (18 Nov 2004)

MJP, thanks for the information.  I am curious what about buying back previous time in, reserve and regular force?  Do you know how that works?  Does the pension reform change this option?  Does buying back time change the amount you have to serve or do you still have to serve 25 years in accordance with the new pension?  Thanks again for the information.


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## rounder (18 Nov 2004)

I am in the middle of a component transfer right now and want to know if i'll still be required to do 25 yrs of service. Does anyone know how this works for reservists?


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## Yeoman (18 Nov 2004)

from what I understand now; anyone that joins, or transfers to the regs has to do a first engagement of 5 years, and 25 years of service. anyone that is regular force, has to sign a contract stating that they're already in so then that way they only do 20 years.
that was what I was told, wether or not that's true. I don't know.
Greg


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## Storm (18 Nov 2004)

m_a_c said:
			
		

> MJP, thanks for the information.   I am curious what about buying back previous time in, reserve and regular force?   Do you know how that works?   Does the pension reform change this option?   Does buying back time change the amount you have to serve or do you still have to serve 25 years in accordance with the new pension?   Thanks again for the information.



Good question. I'm about as clueless as anyone could be about this buying back thing. I've heard the phrase thrown around, but really have no idea what it means. If anyone has some knowledge of the process I'd appreciate the education.


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## MJP (21 Nov 2004)

> I am curious what about buying back previous time in, reserve and regular force?   Do you know how that works?



Well I know a little about buying back time, as I did it when I joined the Reg force in 2001.   Simply put all "buying back time" is using your reserve force service as pensionable time.   My files are packed right now so I don't have the calculation sheet in front of me, so I'll go off of memory.   When you CT over to Reg force they do a time credited to promotion(TCP), based on your class A, B, and C days.   Basically they add up the total time you've been in the reserves.   They then add all Class B & C time and subtract it from the total time you've been in reserves.   They take that number and divide by four(don't ask me why four I think they assume you do parade on a regular basis) and then add on the Class B & C days to get your total TCP.   

Example

Total days in reserves = 100 days
Total Class B & C =            20 days

So
100 - 20= 80 days
80/4=20 days
20+20= 40 days or Time credited to promotion

They now take this number and allow you to "buy back" that many days/years for pension purposes(IMHO the smart decision).   So after 3 years of service you would have 3 years and 45 days of pensionable time.   The buy back part is you have to make your contributions to the pension plan, but that is the simplest part as you can lump sum it or do it monthly installments right from your pay.

Now I give this info but remember I did this in 2001 and it may have changed since then.   Koach may be able to answer more clearly as he is a clerk that probably deals with this on a fairly regular basis.   The other thing is I don't know how this affects new CTs after the pension changes come into effect. 



> Does buying back time change the amount you have to serve or do you still have to serve 25 years in accordance with the new pension?



Terms of service are delinked from the pension plan under the changes.   If you come in with 4 years TCP and you buy it back, you still have to serve 25 years total (so 21 years + 4 years "buy back"), as I understand it.   The best source of info is your units chief clerks, harass them till they get you the answers.



> from what I understand now; anyone that joins, or transfers to the regs has to do a first engagement of 5 years, and 25 years of service. anyone that is regular force, has to sign a contract stating that they're already in so then that way they only do 20 years.
> that was what I was told, whether or not that's true. I don't know



How it's working... the managing authority for a MOC sets the initial engagement length.   Occupations requiring lengthy or expensive training would have a longer initial engagement so the CF would realize a better return on investment.   After that initial VIE or as we know it BE there are three options;

an indefinite period of service until retirement age; 
an intermediate engagement of service to 25 years; or 
one or more continuing engagements. 

For serving members,

If you want to get on your IE before the new terms of service takes effect you can with some limitations.   Serving members who have 48 months of service or more(so BE + a year), can ask to be put onto a EI.   Members under the 48 month mark can ask but it is suppose to be only under special circumstances and in both cases you need CO's approval.   There are some units out there that have pretty much offered everyone their IE if they want it, and others have been stingy in some regards.   I don't really think there is policy that is set across the CF so some people are interpreting "special circumstances" rather loosely, while others are following it to a "T".

Now people on their IE now or are about to sign one, can at any time up till their 18 years switch over to the "IE 25" plan, but they can't switch back to the IE 20 plan.

Something I forgot to add on my original post.

Under the new pension plan there are two parts to the pension plan. Regular force and reserve force(but you'll see in a moment that is a bit of a misnomer.)   They actually had a name, but I can't recall it right now.   Class 1 and Class 1A comes to mind or something along those lines.

Regular force members no matter what are on the reg force pension plan and contribute as designated by the treasury board(4% right now IIRC).   Reserve members that have worked Class B/C for 55 out of the last 60 months will also be included onto the regular force pension plan.   Plus once there, even if they go back to Class A they will still stay on the regular force pension plan for the duration of their career.   My wife brought up the point do they still contribute regularly? and really I have no clue as it wasn't covered in my brief seeing as we were all Reg Force there.   I foresee them only contributing when they do receive a pay cheque, but don't take my word for it.

Reserve pension- Hmm I have no clue how they are going to administer it except to say it'll probably be a % of your total earning as you go in your career.   So your pension depends on your attendance.

Best bet is look at the scenarios on the pension link on the first post.




> This is definitely needed and I appreciate you posting it.   I'll be printing it off so I can now have somewhat of an understanding when ppl come to me.



Zauster,

Your adjutant should have the powerpoint I'm talking about.   If not call over to 1VP and ask the Adjutant there for it, shouldn't be a problem to send to 1 GS.


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## m_a_c (21 Nov 2004)

Again MJP thanks for the information, it really helped me out.  I will take your advice and bug my chief clerk a little more.

m_a_c


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## Storm (22 Nov 2004)

Thanks MJP


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## Long in the tooth (25 Nov 2004)

MJP - you seem to be in the know about this issue, so perhaps you can help me out.  I have 18 years RegF service as well as 10 years Res (with about 3 1/2 pensionable, which I'm paying for).  I just signed my IPS at age 44.  Although I've nailed down job security, does this mean I've compromised retirement plans in 2-4 years?  Should I have pushed for a CE instead?  If I have made an error, do things even out after 25 years?  Thanks in advance.


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## MJP (25 Nov 2004)

I honestly don't know how this will affect you.   

I copied this scenario from the web site as it seems to be the one that applies to you.




> Major Morneault, 46, is serving on an IPS, having already completed an IE 20. He decides to leave the Forces in 2007 after having completed 26 years of service with the Regular Force.
> 
> Under the current provisions of the CFSA, Maj Morneault is entitled to an immediate reduced pension. There would be a 5% penalty for every year of age Major Morneault is younger than the retirement age that applies to him â â€œ 10% in this case.
> 
> Under the proposed rules, and assuming that the changes come into force in 2005, Maj Morneault would be entitled to an immediate unreduced pension because he would have completed more than 25 years of CF service.



Hopefully that helps a bit.  From what I understand it seems that the new pension plan will be better for people in your situation than the old plan.


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## KevinB (29 Nov 2004)

Mike,

Good job, you goofed a bit on the Reserve PFTPS 
Check you math  ;D


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## eager (30 Nov 2004)

I'm new here as you've noticed.  I spent ten years in the 1RNBR.  I got out in 1995.  Someone I know eluded to the fact that there were pensions for those that served in the reserves.  Is this true?  I'm just fact finding right now.  If there is, how do I go about "getting" it?


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## Spr.Earl (30 Nov 2004)

It's a Con Job !!! 
What it is,we work longer for less!!!

The Gov. never gives us anything with out a price!!!


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## Shaynelle (30 Nov 2004)

Can anyone confirm if the pension reform is actually due for January 1st?  I contacted CFRC and they said most likely it will not because of the time it will take to get it in place, and the fellow I spoke with said with the holiday break coming up quickly he can't see them having it clear cut and in place for January 1st.  It made sense because if things aren't definate yet, they will need time to smooth out the wrinkles and get it policy first - which will take forever and a day - ??


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## MJP (30 Nov 2004)

It will not be in place for the 01 Jan 05.  They actually don't have a firm date for either one as of yet.


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## Griswald DME (6 Dec 2004)

Thank the lord!  That sure makes me feel much better.  Thanks for the information MJP.  Any idea when it may happen?


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## MJP (8 Dec 2004)

They told us a few days ago that it probably won't be implemented until Aprl 05....So add six months and look at end year 05.


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## Jungle (8 Dec 2004)

MJP said:
			
		

> It will not be in place for the 01 Jan 05.   They actually don't have a firm date for either one as of yet.


BUT, people currently on a (2nd?) BE have until Jan 1st to request a change to an IE. After that date, people will be offered the new terms of service as soon as they are implemented.


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## MJP (9 Dec 2004)

Jungle said:
			
		

> (2nd?) BE



The CO can authorize a IE at any point in the first few years but it must be justified.  After 48 months of service a member can be offered an IE without needing exceptional circumstances.



			
				Jungle said:
			
		

> After that date, people will be offered the new terms of service as soon as they are implemented.


I'll ask tomorrow.  When my Pl commander told me about the delay in implementation, he seem relieved that the unit was given some more time to sort out the whole IE thing. So I think there might be some leeway.  I wouldn't be surprised to see all pers nowing entering or CT'ing to the Reg Force told that they are under the TOS


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## a_majoor (9 Dec 2004)

As for a time line, 31 CBG pers will receive briefings 16 and 17 Feb 05 in Hamilton and London. Best guess is the pension will not kick off prior to 01 Apr 05, and may still be delayed. 

In my opinion they would have been better off going with a group RRSP plan, faster to implement (could have been done a long time ago), cheaper to administer (most financial institutions would eat the cost to gain so many potential new clients), very flexible in terms of investment options (you are investing my pension in What!!!) and totally man portable; when you get out, all the money is vested with you wether you serve five years (typical minimum for plans) or 25 years. I wrote a letter to the project office in 1998 or 99 on this very topic and got a polite "we have input your concerns into our (circular) database", the time line should give you some idea of how much of an admin burden this will be, particularly for reservists.


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## McG (9 Dec 2004)

Someone seems to have seen the error in putting the cut-off for the old TOS prior to the pension details being finalized.   You should now have until Apr to sign a new contract under the old TOS.


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## Spr.Earl (12 Dec 2004)

For those of you in the Reg.'s I have seen your pension plan change what? Twice,three times now in regards to your benefits,terms of service since 76.
I feel sorry for you as now you have to serve longer to get a pension.
This is the Gov. answer too retention,which explains it all

Now for us long service members in the Reserve,Army etc..this 5 yr given prior to 99 is crap.
In 95 when I volunteered for Bosnia,they calculated my time in for pay was equal to 13 yrs Reg.time,I was paid Cpl 4.
That was with out the 2yrs plus after the fact.

A Militia Pension Plan has been over due for years now, as few do serve a long time as I have done and still do,but I hate being a guinea pig and just hope I don't have to adopt the postion.


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## aesop081 (12 Dec 2004)

Spr.Earl said:
			
		

> A Militia Pension Plan has been over due for years now, as few do serve a long time as I have done and still do,but I hate being a guinea pig and just hope I don't have to adopt the postion.



............BOHICA


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## NavyGunner (2 Jan 2005)

I have heard through reliable sources that upcoming changes to the pension act will have us see a 72% pension after 25 years of service vice the 50% we get now. Any truth to this?


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## MJP (2 Jan 2005)

Not true....

read through this thread, it covers the topic.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/22704.0.html


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## CFPMP (5 Apr 2005)

For the latest information on Pension modernization please go to the CF Pension Modernization Project Website at

http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/dpsp/engraph/modernization_e.asp?sidesection=5&sidecat=17


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## CFPMP (5 Apr 2005)

Please refer to the CF Pension Modernization Project website for information on pension modernization

http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/dpsp/engraph/modernization_e.asp?sidesection=5&sidecat=17


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## NMPeters (5 Apr 2005)

Thanks for the link but the website isn't answering any of the questions that people are posting on here. Perhaps the site needs to be updated? The last CANFORGEN that is listed on there is dated 2003. Surely there is more information that can be passed on to people seeing as this is an important aspect to their lives.


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## McG (5 Apr 2005)

Intranet (DWAN):
http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/dgcb/cfpmp/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=5&sidecat=17

Internet (not recently updated):
http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dpsp/engraph/modernization_e.asp?sidesection=5&sidecat=17


I'm still waiting to hear how this will affect people currently buying back time served in the reserves.


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## aesop081 (5 Apr 2005)

CFPMP.....thats a clever user name...almost as clever as aesop081  ;D


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## logie (8 Apr 2005)

I am wondering whether anyone out there knows anything about buy back for the new reserve pension.....I have heard you can only buy back to 99 but I have also heard that Treasury Board is considering letting us buy back to 86 (?)  Would greatly appreciate any information anyone has about where Treasury Board is going with this.  Thanks in advance


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## Gunner (8 Apr 2005)

I have a powerpoint presentation on the pension plan, changes to TOS, and some details on the Reserve Pension.  It doesn't answer specific questions that are raised here but if you would like a copy I can email it to you.


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## redsquadone (26 Feb 2006)

Hi. This is my first post here. I have been in the military for 17 years now. I know my pension plan, but I hear the rules have changed. My wife is considering signing up. She is 31 years old. WHat are the new terms of the pension plan. How long must one serve before a pension is available. I heard it is alot longer than 20 years now. Any links that cut through the beaurocratic B.S. or any straight answers are appreciated. She is going Reg. Force. NCO.


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## kincanucks (26 Feb 2006)

redsquadone said:
			
		

> Hi. This is my first post here. I have been in the military for 17 years now. I know my pension plan, but I hear the rules have changed. My wife is considering signing up. She is 31 years old. WHat are the new terms of the pension plan. How long must one serve before a pension is available. I heard it is alot longer than 20 years now. Any links that cut through the beaurocratic B.S. or any straight answers are appreciated. She is going Reg. Force. NCO.



25 years of service is now required.


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

ayup.... 25 years.... 
freedom 55 will be @ 56 for your true love....


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## dapaterson (27 Feb 2006)

It is still 20 years; it appears the changw to 25 years will be in March '07.

However, those enrolled prior should be protected and still covered under the old rules, unless they choose otherwise.


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## kincanucks (27 Feb 2006)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> It is still 20 years; it appears the changw to 25 years will be in March '07.
> 
> However, those enrolled prior should be protected and still covered under the old rules, unless they choose otherwise.



Hmmmm, are we talking about the Reserve Pension Modernization or the Reg F pension modernization which I was sure had been in effect for over a year?

No one being enrolled is being offered any choice and are being signed up with the new VIE which are in line with a 25 year service plan.


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## geo (27 Feb 2006)

Part 1 (Reg) has been put into place eff 06
Part 1.1 (Res) scheduled to be put into place eff March 07


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## dapaterson (27 Feb 2006)

Geo: Part I, the already existing Reg F pension, has not yet changed.  There will be one massive change on the implementation of the "new" plan, covering serving Reg F and Res F personnel.  Until that date (currently forecast for March 07) it is status quo all 'round.

kincanucks:  I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED that we could get changes out of sync and change TOS before chaging the pension plan.  Yes, the VIEs are in force, but the old pension rules are as well.  Just a little more confusion added to the mix, and a few more challenges for when the new pension is implemented.


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## Cdnarmybear (27 Feb 2006)

I was under the impression that if you were on the old IE (20 yrs) you were still covered under the old system. 
Aren't the ones who join up after 2005 subject to new TOS??


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## dapaterson (27 Feb 2006)

Everyone is still covered by the old system.  When the new system is implemented it will cover exveryone who joins after that date; serving members will be able to elect the old or new plans.

However, the ability to elect will not be "Everyone must choose by the same date".  Rather, it will be phased in, largely to avoid having every Reg F officer with between 25 and 27 years of service to release immediately.  I think the (unstated) goal is to keep people in their pension traps as long as possible.


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## George Wallace (27 Feb 2006)

Actually, depending on where you are in your career, or if you are a recent annuitant, you may have a chance to choose which plan you want to be in.  As a recent annuitant, I received forms to that effect before Christmas.

Many being recruited now are entering under the 25 year plan.


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## AirForceWife (15 Mar 2006)

My husband went to RMC in the fall of 2000 when they were told it was 20 years. 
However, when he arrived at CFANS after graduation, the CM told them that it is 25 years for the guys that just got there from RMC.
Anyone have any idea why he would say this when they joined the military in June 2000?   Everyone was pretty upset after they were told that they had to wait an extra 5 years.


Edit: This was told to them in the fall of 2004, 4 years after enrolling at RMC as ROTP


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## TCBF (15 Mar 2006)

"Everyone was pretty upset after they were told that they had to wait an extra 5 years."

- They just got a free education, courtesy of the over-taxed Canadian taxpayers - and got paid while doing it, to boot.

They have nothing to be upset about.

Man, talk about a culture of entitlement....


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## kincanucks (15 Mar 2006)

When you husband joined he was enrolled under a Short Service Engagement (SSE) of nine years and only those who were under an Indefinite Period of Service (IPS) or Intermediate Engagement (IE) at the time of the change from 20 to 25 years are protected.  Policies change from time to time and some people are protected and some are not.  Your husband is SOL.  However, after stating that, wait for it there might another change.  Just like the weather in Gagetown, don't like it?  Wait five minutes it will change.

HH


Note - TCBF, excellent point!


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## AirForceWife (15 Mar 2006)

Thank you kincanucks !


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## Zoomie (18 Mar 2006)

There is an important difference with the new pension plan that isn't just the extra 5 years to serve.  Under the new plan you no longer have rights to return of contributions,  If you left the CF after 9 years you would be eligible for a 9 year pension when you turned 55 or you would be able to port this pension into another fund (ie RRSP, other pension fund, etc).  Under the old system these funds could be returned to the member.
 In order to receive a non-indexed pension right away, you must serve 25 years.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (18 Mar 2006)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> There is an important difference with the new pension plan that isn't just the extra 5 years to serve.  Under the new plan you no longer have rights to return of contributions,  If you left the CF after 9 years you would be eligible for a 9 year pension when you turned 55 or you would be able to port this pension into another fund (ie RRSP, other pension fund, etc).  Under the old system these funds could be returned to the member.
> In order to receive a non-indexed pension right away, you must serve 25 years.



Wow, that really is a big difference. When I pulled pole after 10 years I took the option of return of contributions and that was my down payment for my first house. My thought was that money doesn't do much good in there if I get hit by a bus one year before collection time.......


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## Gunner (18 Mar 2006)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dgcb/cfpmp/engraph/cfsa_e.asp?sidesection=5



> *What is changing?*
> 
> De-linking pension eligibility from terms of service and increasing pension options. (Regular Force members now serving may be able to have their pension grandfathered, that is, determined under grandfathering provisions.)
> 
> ...


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## ZxExN (18 Mar 2006)

Isnt the old plan 20 years, 40% pension, new plan 25 years, 50% pension?


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## Zoomie (19 Mar 2006)

the pension plan is 2% per annum served - so 20 years X 2% = 40%, 25 years X 2% = 50% - nothing has changed there...


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## Bigmac (26 Feb 2007)

Hot off the press. New pension modernization effective 01 Mar 07.



> CANFORGEN 036/07 CMP 016/07 221340Z FEB 07
> PENSION MODERNIZATION - COMING INTO FORCE
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> ...


http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2007/036-07_e.asp


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## radop215 (1 Mar 2007)

so does this mean that i can get out at my twenty and draw a monthly pension or do i now have to serve 25?


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## dapaterson (1 Mar 2007)

Radop215:



> REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WHO REMAIN CONTRIBUTORS UNDER THE ACT FROM 28 FEB 07 UNTIL RELEASE, AND WHO MEET SPECIFIED CONDITIONS, MAY CHOOSE TO HAVE THEIR PENSION DETERMINED UNDER THE OLD RATHER THAN THE NEW RULES. THESE ARE THE SO CALLED QUOTE GRANDFATHERING UNQUOTE PROVISIONS. A DETAILED CHART OF GRANDFATHERING RULES TOGETHER WITH COMPANION DECISION TREES WILL BE PROVIDED TO YOUR BASE / WING ADMIN AUTHORITIES



Check with your OR, but the answer to your question about getting out at 20 is more than likely "Yes".


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## PO2FinClk (1 Mar 2007)

radop215 said:
			
		

> so does this mean that i can get out at my twenty and draw a monthly pension or do i now have to serve 25?


If your an IE20 you can get out at 20 with your pension.


			
				Bigmac said:
			
		

> REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS WHO REMAIN CONTRIBUTORS UNDER THE ACT FROM 28 FEB 07 UNTIL RELEASE, AND WHO MEET SPECIFIED CONDITIONS, MAY CHOOSE TO HAVE THEIR PENSION DETERMINED UNDER THE OLD RATHER THAN THE NEW RULES. THESE ARE THE SO CALLED QUOTE GRANDFATHERING UNQUOTE PROVISIONS. A DETAILED CHART OF GRANDFATHERING RULES TOGETHER WITH COMPANION DECISION TREES WILL BE PROVIDED TO YOUR BASE / WING ADMIN AUTHORITIES


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## radop215 (1 Mar 2007)

MEMBERS WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR AN IMMEDIATE UNREDUCED ANNUITY (IA) UPON RELEASE, IF THEY HAVE TWO OR MORE YEARS OF PENSIONABLE SERVICE TO THEIR CREDIT AND CAN MEET ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 

(1) THEY HAVE COMPLETED NOT LESS THAN 25 YEARS OF PAID CANADIAN FORCES SERVICE (9,131 DAYS). BOTH REGULAR FORCE TIME AND RESERVE FORCE TIME CAN BE COUNTED AND TIME IS CUMULATIVE NOT CONSECUTIVE 

what does this mean then?


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## PO2FinClk (1 Mar 2007)

radop215 said:
			
		

> what does this mean then?


The new rules ... for those who are on a IE25.


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## radop215 (1 Mar 2007)

sweet, 
thanks


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## gage (12 Nov 2007)

So if I'm signed on an IE20 I'm safe to complete my contract and retire on the old 20/40 plan as long as i was a contributor on or before 28 FEB 07 (which i am)
am i understanding this correctly
My next Question if i decide to break contract and my release date is after 01 MAR 09 i can't receive RETURN OF CONTRIBUTIONS i must wait until minimum
age 50 or go for a transfer and hope i can sell it on the open market
is this correct or am i out to lunch

Jeremy


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## kawa11 (16 Jun 2011)

Can someone verify if this is still up-to-date or if there have been updates since?


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## dapaterson (16 Jun 2011)

If you are not a current member, on enrolment the pension plan requires two years to vest, and twenty five years to retire with an immediate unreduced annuity, with a maximum of 35 years of pensionale service.  The thrity five year limit is across all federal plans, including the PSSA and RCMPSA.

If you were a member prior to the coming-into-force of the new provisions, you may be grandfathered, permitting you to retire after 20 years.

(Note that medical releases are different)


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## kawa11 (16 Jun 2011)

In the event of medical release am I stuck with the medical bills?

In the event of death [either in service or off-duty while still a member], does my wife/children get the pension?


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## dapaterson (16 Jun 2011)

kawa11 said:
			
		

> In the event of medical release am I stuck with the medical bills?



The CF will provide medical care t orelease; post-release, assuming a service-related injury (or service attributed injury) you'd transition to VAC for medical care.  



> In the event of death [either in service or off-duty while still a member], does my wife/children get the pension?



Survivors pensions are included in the CFSA: spouse receives 50% of your entitlement, minors (and, I believe, full-time students up to 25) each receive 10% of your entitlement.


Payments under the New Veteran's Charter or other legislation are above and beyond these amounts.


There is also severance pay on release, plus the Sudden Death Benefit in the event of a service death.


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## krustyrl (16 Jun 2011)

> The CF will provide medical care t orelease; post-release, assuming a service-related injury (or service attributed injury) you'd transition to VAC for medical care.



I have not heard of anyone who had post-release care from the CF. Didn't it fall under VAC if they had an entitlement.? Can anyone give examples or cases , names withheld obviously.


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## dapaterson (16 Jun 2011)

krustyrl said:
			
		

> I have not heard of anyone who had post-release care from the CF. Didn't it fall under VAC if they had an entitlement.? Can anyone give examples or cases , names withheld obviously.



There are minor instances where care will be provided post-release (for example, to conclude a set of treatments) but those are exceptional

My earlier statement, with added white space:

The CF will provide medical care to release;

post-release, ... you'd transition to VAC for medical care.


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## krustyrl (16 Jun 2011)

S'what I thought , thanks.


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