# HMCS Preserver smashes into dock - 4 Nov 2011



## Occam

Wooops!



Shared with the usual provisions...

Original link  *Photo at link*

A naval ship best known for helping out areas of the world in crisis might now be in need of some help itself.

HMCS Preserver sustained some damage Friday afternoon when it ran into a dock in Halifax.

There's been no word about what caused the collision. However, the navy has scheduled a news conference about the incident later today.

HMCS Preserver, a supply ship that’s helped out people in disasters and other crises all over the world, has been in a multi-million dollar refit at the Irving-owned shipyard in Halifax.


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## jollyjacktar

OUCH#!@#!@  Someone will have some spaining to do.  I don't envy who's in the hot seat now.   :facepalm:


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## yoman

> *HMCS Preserver runs into Halifax dock
> *
> HMCS Preserver bumped into a dock at the Irving-owned Halifax Shipyard Friday afternoon.
> 
> It happened just before 3 p.m. and no one was injured.
> 
> "It's really too early to determine the extent of the damage to the ship," Major Paul Doucette, spokesman for Martime Forces Atlantic, told reporters late Friday afternoon.
> 
> HMCS Preserver was returning from engineering trials when it hit the dock.
> 
> Doucette said there were no indications of any spilled fuel and that the damage was high, above water level, near the bow.
> 
> HMCS Preserver is an auxiliary replenishment vessel. It carries oil for other ships and helicopters at sea. The standard-sized crew for the ship is about 300.
> 
> Doucette said he couldn't comment about damage to the dock.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/11/04/ns-hmcs-preserver-hits-dock.html

Oops....


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## Occam

> The standard-sized crew for the ship is about 300.



Unless they've seriously cut back on the duff selection, I don't ever remember the crew being standard-sized.   ;D


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## brihard

"Career answers all stop".


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## Towards_the_gap

Occam said:
			
		

> Wooops!
> 
> 
> 
> Shared with the usual provisions...
> 
> Original link  *Photo at link*
> 
> There's been no word about what caused the collision.




umm.....It didn't stop?????? No need for a BofI now!


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## brihard

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> umm.....It didn't stop?????? No need for a BofI now!



Indeed. In the strictest sense I'd say the collision was caused by inertia.


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## Hammer Sandwich

*COUGH!* _(last person I saw that made fun of NAVY accidents got sent up the warning ladder)_....*COUGH.*

Sorry....I'm a smoker.


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## Fishbone Jones

Shoulda had some of them little white dock bumpers like you see on sailboats. Maybe that woulda helped some. >


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## Stoker

Not the first time she was involved in a accident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vW7B5JLmY


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## Towards_the_gap

Will the driver have his 404 revoked and have to give a safety brief on docking? 

I can imagine a little pickup, dockside, with a yellow winky pot on top and an MSE Op with a clipboard scratching his head thinking 'How am I going to investigate this one?'


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## lethalLemon

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Not the first time she was involved in a accident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vW7B5JLmY



Oh no, not again, Marty drop his pencil at the wheel.


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## Hammer Sandwich

Clear case of, "_Navigation by Braille_".


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## agnivohneb

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Not the first time she was involved in a accident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vW7B5JLmY



I would have crapped my pants if I was on the HMS Penelope.  The Preserver is a lot of ship to be charging into.


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## FlyingDutchman

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Will the driver have his 404 revoked and have to give a safety brief on docking?
> 
> I can imagine a little pickup, dockside, with a yellow winky pot on top and an MSE Op with a clipboard scratching his head thinking 'How am I going to investigate this one?'


With a large cup of coffee and a large cup of rum afterwards?


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## Hawk

There was a rumour around when I was in (1960's) that the base commander at Cornwallis ran the Bonaventure into a jetty in San Juan, and that's how he was promoted and sent to Cornwallis where he couldn't do any more harm. Its hard to run a cement frigate aground!

Hawk


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## Occam

Hawk said:
			
		

> There was a rumour around when I was in (1960's) that the base commander at Cornwallis ran the Bonaventure into a jetty in San Juan, and that's how he was promoted and sent to Cornwallis where he couldn't do any more harm. Its hard to run a cement frigate aground!
> 
> Hawk



The expression is actually "stone frigate".   ;D


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## Hawk

Actually, when I was in we used stone frigate, land-locked frigate and cement frigate.

Hawk


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## jollyjacktar

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Not the first time she was involved in a accident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vW7B5JLmY



And that's why we called her the old F.A.R.T.  (Fast Attack Replenishment Tanker).  As I understand, HMS Penelope's keel was broken by that incident and she was paid off shortly thereafter.


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## Stoker

She was paid off and was then sold to the Ecuadorian navy where she spent a further 17 years in service.


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## jollyjacktar

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> She was paid off and was then sold to the Ecuadorian navy where she spent a further 17 years in service.



Thank you for the further info.  We were told wrong by our Sea Daddies.


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## Stoker

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Thank you for the further info.  We were told wrong by our Sea Daddies.



Was told the same thing by the guys out at DC div, she was severely damaged though.


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## mad dog 2020

After I saw the video, I googled HMS Penelope and it was all there on Wikipedia. To include the damage costs.


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## Tank Troll

Nice park job matey!! So much for getting the North Park Armouries fixed, bet that get put on hold now


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## orca73

I know the joke on the east coast is that HMCS Preserver rarely ever leaves the wall.  Well I actually have proof of her sailing in the Bedford Basin.  I came home after work and was extremely shocked   to see her in the basin and under her own power.


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## Pat in Halifax

I am curious why anyone would be *shocked*. If you put a dent in the front of your car, you will still drive it. PRESERVER was conducting sea trials at the time of the incident. Life goes on. That said, must agree, it is good to see. I know her crew have been busting their asses to get this thing operational again.


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## jollyjacktar

The photo's are pre thump.  She has the damaged area already cut out and repairs are underway by FMF.


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## Pat in Halifax

I wasn't sure as it looked like something on the starboard side bow but then now that you say that, there is no snow in the pic!!!!
Sorry, I am being gainfully employed in the Nation's Capital-can I assume there is still snow....wasn't talking to my wife since Wednesday.


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## Colin Parkinson

Clearly the navy is learning their docking manoeuvres from BC ferries. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/11/18/bc-ferry-hard-landing.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17k3R62KWbI


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## The Bread Guy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> The photo's are *pre thump* ....


Is that an official RCN term?  I like....


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## Occam

Resurrecting old thread...



HMCS Preserver commander stripped of command

Navy ship rammed into floating dock in Halifax Nov. 4

Original link

The Royal Canadian Navy has confirmed to CBC News that the commander of HMCS Preserver has been stripped of his command.

Cmdr. Larry Jones was in charge of the ship when it rammed into a fixed floating dock at the Halifax Irving Shipyard on Nov. 4.

The navy won't say how extensively the ship was damaged or how much the repairs cost.

HMCS Preserver is the largest ship in Canada's east coast fleet and had just gone under a $45-million refit before the incident.

In a statement to CBC News about Jones, the navy said there is "enough evidence for the navy to lose confidence in his ability to command at sea."

The navy has yet to complete its official inquiry into the collision.

The navy said there is a direct link between the collision and Jones's removal, and said Jones was relieved of command because of the "result of the preliminary finding of the Nov. 4 incident."

Jones has been transferred to a job ashore.

Any navy online pages containing Jones's name have now been taken down — and all pictures and information about him have been removed.

It took months to repair HMCS Preserver, but the navy said the ship left for sea trials earlier this week.

Just three months ago, another navy commanding officer lost his position. Lt.-Cmdr. Paul Sutherland of the submarine HMCS Corner Brook was relieved of his command after the sub hit the seafloor off British Columbia last June.


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## Eye In The Sky

I saw her in the Bedford Basin 2 morning ago, making her way towards the Narrows/ just NW of the Mackay. 

She did have a tug strapped onto her on the starboard side.  Extra brakes I guess... >

(Sorry, I don't know how to ab-lah in Navy-speak)


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## FSTO

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I saw her in the Bedford Basin 2 morning ago, making her way towards the Narrows/ just NW of the Mackay.
> 
> She did have a tug strapped onto her on the starboard side.  Extra brakes I guess... >
> 
> (Sorry, I don't know how to ab-lah in Navy-speak)



She may have been cold moving from the basin to her berth at Docktyard, hence having the tug buttoned on.


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## jollyjacktar

I believe you are correct FTSO as I saw her at the Ammo Jetty earlier.  Trips to there are always a cold move.


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## gcclarke

Always a cold move? Hmmm, that's kinda weird. It's not like someone's going to smash into the ammo jetty and bus.... oh wait. Right.


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## jollyjacktar

Not so much that, but if they are not going anywhere else it is not worth it to flash up the boilers.  Don't forget she's a steamship and cannot just turn the key, put it in drive and step on the gas.


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## Snakedoc

I'm somewhat surprised the change of CO's made the national newscast on at least both the CBC and CTV, not that it's not newsworthy but I just never figured the media to be on top of stuff like this..


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## Stoker

So he goes ashore for a few years. Wonder if he ever Command again?


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## Nfld Sapper

I knew that name looked familiar (assuming its the same fella)..... He was the Commanding Officer of CFS ST.JOHN'S ......


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## Pat in Halifax

Reminder; This is a "Naval Ships and Vessels" thread, not a "Holy F***, another sailor screwed the pooch" thread. 
I recall days when jetty bashing was a driving lesson-it was socially acceptable-like drinking and driving.

For those NOT in the know, tugs regularly take Naval vessels through the harbour. As someone else mentioned, flashing a boiler for a hot move is like going to sea-IRO and HAL are the same-Full 'at sea watch' required on board for a hot move.


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## Snakedoc

Probably a little less socially acceptable when the ship has just undergone a shiny new $45 Million refit in the RCN's eyes... and in today's digital age, information spreads much quicker and has wider distribution


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## Sailorwest

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Reminder; This is a "Naval Ships and Vessels" thread, not a "Holy F***, another sailor screwed the pooch" thread.
> I recall days when jetty bashing was a driving lesson-it was socially acceptable-like drinking and driving.
> 
> For those NOT in the know, tugs regularly take Naval vessels through the harbour. As someone else mentioned, flashing a boiler for a hot move is like going to sea-IRO and HAL are the same-Full 'at sea watch' required on board for a hot move.



It is kind of a colloquial MARS term. The intent is to learn how to drive the ship not to actually "bash" the jetty. The idea should be to stop just short of that. Nobody ever likes to be the subject of the converstion in the Wardroom that starts with "I had no idea what he was thinking about when..."


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## Colin Parkinson

As I always say, a ferry captain puts his career on the line 4 times a day. docking a large ship is never easy and stuff can just go wrong. Mind you watching my friend who is a pilot, dock a 66,000DWT freighter without tugs and not even feeling a bump as she comes alongside was impressive.


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## Stoker

Here's the recent collision


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## lethalLemon

Well, that's embarrassing.  :-[


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## OldSolduer

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.


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## medicineman

Man, what some folks will do to keep from sailing for awhile  >

MM


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## OldSolduer

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.



OK enough of the funnies for  now......so tell me, Navy dudes....what is the IA if you think your ship is going to run into a dock or an immovable object?

Now I am infantry...short words, small sentences, type s l o w l y!

Thanks!!


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## GAP

dive?


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## Towards_the_gap

I will hazard a guess...


1. Move as far away from the steering wheel thingy as possible, making yourself look as inconspicuous as possible.

2. Hold onto something.


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## OldSolduer

GAP said:
			
		

> dive?



I suppose....



			
				Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I will hazard a guess...
> 
> 
> 1. Move as far away from the steering wheel thingy as possible, making yourself look as inconspicuous as possible.
> 
> 2. Hold onto something.



 :rofl:


Now seriously......I shoulda known!!


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## midget-boyd91

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> OK enough of the funnies for  now......so tell me, Navy dudes....what is the IA if you think your ship is going to run into a dock or an immovable object?
> 
> Now I am infantry...short words, small sentences, type s l o w l y!
> 
> Thanks!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWoPdZ986oo


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## Occam

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> OK enough of the funnies for  now......so tell me, Navy dudes....what is the IA if you think your ship is going to run into a dock or an immovable object?
> 
> Now I am infantry...short words, small sentences, type s l o w l y!
> 
> Thanks!!



"Brace for collision" - hold on to anything you can find, and then get ready for the "Emergency Stations, Emergency Stations, close all red openings" pipe after the crunch.  That orders all watertight doors and hatches below the waterline to be closed.


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## Ex-Dragoon

In addition to what Occam has posted. Ops types look away from their screens in case they shatter.


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## OldSolduer

Kinda like a car crash - just a bit bigger and maybe a bit more warning.....?


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Actually, Jim, just like a car crash, but in extreme slow motion: It takes minutes to happen in front of your eyes but there is f*** all you can do about it.

Occam also forgot, that from basic on, all seaman are taught the proper way of leaning on the front of their feet and bending their knees when brace for collision is piped. That is because the energy of any collision is dissipated in great part as a shock wave running through the steel deck. They "buckle" so fast that if not in the right position, ankles, knees or leg bones can be shattered. Not a pretty sight.

Also, for those not familiar with Halifax harbour, you can see from the picture that the event occurred in the area of the harbour known as the Halifax Narrow. As the name implies, it's a nasty and tight spot, with a bend in the middle of it that is riddled with weird currents and undertows at various stages of tide. Its even tighter for an AOR and shit can happen there very fast - I remember my passages there with PROTECTEUR and it was very stressful. Imagine being the Snowbird plane in the middle of the formation but not having the luxury of ejection seat if anything goes wrong.


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## Occam

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Occam also forgot, that from basic on, all seaman are taught the proper way of leaning on the front of their feet and bending their knees when brace for collision is piped. That is because the energy of any collision is dissipated in great part as a shock wave running through the steel deck. They "buckle" so fast that if not in the right position, ankles, knees or leg bones can be shattered. Not a pretty sight.



I remembered that as "Brace for shock" drills for incoming missiles/torpedoes, but couldn't for the life of me remember if it was appropriate for collisions.  There you go.


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## jollyjacktar

The pipe, (announcement over the intercom)  is "Brace for Shock".  They will also include what the threat is, and on what side of the ship (if they can).  Port or Stbd.  After the crunch, they will should pipe, "Ship's company, unbrace". Which should  then be followed by the action alarm bong bong sounding three times, "Emergency Stations, Emergency Stations (with further info/instructions as the situation requires)  such as Fire/Fire/Fire, fire in (location), Zone (location), or Flood/Flood/Flood etc.  Section base teams close up.  (There are variations to what could be piped dependent upon the situation.  At sea or in harbour.  Working day or after hours.  A confirmed emergency or a sensor indication of fire/flood/smoke etc.  Get's complicated for you landlubbers...  )

What should happen after everyone is told to unbrace, that the Damage Control Teams for each assigned Section Base should adopt action dress and proceed to their respective base.  There should also be a concurrent rapid survey conducted of your immediate surrounding area to if possible to assess any indication of fire/flood/casualty prior to heading out to your assigned station.  Hopefully by the 6 minute mark or better (desired) all the Section Bases are closed up (manned and ready), rapid surveys for damage have been made and any reports of damage sent up the chain, and command/HQ1 is directing the appropriate orders and actions to deal with the situation.  

Of course Jim, it's like the Army in your drills to respond to say an ambush, you know what needs to be done and you do it as it becomes second nature.  To close up for Action Stations etc the mark is 6 min or better.  I have seen a close up for a real emergency flying stations, middle of the night in 3 1/2 minutes.  A good crew, well drilled, is a beautiful thing to see.


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## SeaKingTacco

I have been part of a middle of the night engine room fire where we closed up to emergency stations in just over 2 minutes.  Mind you, we had an engine room fire the previous night, so we had had a bit of practice.


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## chrisf

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Of course Jim, it's like the Army in your drills to respond to say an ambush, you know what needs to be done and you do it as it becomes second nature.  To close up for Action Stations etc the mark is 6 min or better.  I have seen a close up for a real emergency flying stations, middle of the night in 3 1/2 minutes.  A good crew, well drilled, is a beautiful thing to see.



I've always assumed, or at least hoped, drills on a naval ship would be done on a "surprise" basis...

Somthing that's consistently bothered me working on a ship civi side is we typically hear around lunch time that there's going to be a boat and fire drill, or marsec drill or whatever, to be held conveniently after supper...

In fairness, some of the logic on holding it after supper is to avoid messing too much with sleeping watch-keepers, which is fine... but we could still do it on a "surprise" basis... most of the time, everyone who's not on watch is sitting in their cabin, feet up, life vest on the bunk, waiting for the bells...

I've always been curious what would happen if a fire were to occur around, say, 0200...


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## SeaKingTacco

A fire at 0200 is no fun.


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## OldSolduer

Thanks very much for the information. It may come in handy one day!


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## Occam

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I've always assumed, or at least hoped, drills on a naval ship would be done on a "surprise" basis...



They are, for the most part.  Ship-initiated exercises are usually on the whim of the XO (Executive Officer), with the assistance of the Cox'n sometimes.  After a while, you develop a sixth sense as to when these types of exercises are thrown at you based on the loose "plan" for the period spent at sea.

All bets are off during workups, when Sea Training (a team of senior personnel representing each department of the ship) is embarked, and their job is to keep you off-kilter as much as possible.  Cutting into your sleep time isn't one of their concerns.  They're there to train you and nitpick every little fault they can find.  Workups are done periodically, roughly once every two years if I recall...though that may have changed with the new tiered readiness programs.



> I've always been curious what would happen if a fire were to occur around, say, 0200...



I'm surprised some keen sailor hasn't produced a logic diagram on how to deal with this.  At 0200, it would go something like this:

Action alarm sounds - wait until bongs stop

Is it a man overboard?  If yes, go back to sleep as on-watch handles it and you shouldn't be in your rack if you're on watch.

If not a man overboard, is it a Verification muster?  (to ensure everyone is still on board the ship, and nobody has gone overboard) - If yes, stay in your bunk, because except for absolute critical personnel, that's where everyone on the ship goes to get counted.

Is it Action Stations or Emergency stations?  (combat, fire, flood, collision) If yes, get out of your bunk because you're going to be getting dressed and will be up for a while.  Other extra details: Pay attention to the announcement as to where the fire is, so that you don't inadvertently go through it on the way to your Emergency Station (yes, it happens when you're half asleep and not thinking, but it's highly frowned on for obvious reasons)

Is it Emergency Flying Stations?  If yes, and you're sleeping in the messdecks in the after end of the ship, get out of your bunk and get dressed very, very quickly.  There will be a very loud and cranky PO or CPO coming into your mess to awaken you and get you out of the mess as fast as possible, because there may possibly be an 18,000 lb helicopter crashing above you at any moment.

It's been quite a few years and I'm sure I've forgotten many of the other possible branches on the logic diagram, but you get the drift.


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## Baz

I have been on the other end of one of those rapid closups.

With HMCS Halifax in the mid 90's in the Caribbean I reported smoke in the cockpit in the middle of night.  At first we didn't think it was a big deal but when my voice went up an octave and got twice as loud to say "PAN, PAN, PAN" everybody knew things had chnaged.

They closed up, including aft mess decks clear, in less than 4... although I wasn't counting, it was just comforting that when we got to the ship they were ready for us.  Visibiltiy in the cockpit was less than 3 feet.

It was also nice that an American P-3 followed me home, and then asked me onto the radios a couple hours later as they went OFFSTA to see how we were doing.

Turns out it was a battery overheat.  Sucks because it also ruined arguably the most sucessful ASW engagement I have done...


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## Colin Parkinson

On the cutters, you didn't need an alarm to tell if the ship was on a call while you were off watch. A change in engine revs, other clues such as rolling of the ship changing as your heading changed, anchor windlass engaged, etc. 

We did have a captain who was a bit of a charactor. We were anchored off an abandoned logging camp, he took the inflatable ashore, 1/2hr later he was back, rang the alarm and announced fire ashore and duty watch to respond. We all started moving at "exercise drill pace" until we noticed that one of the buildings was on fire! Certainly made for a more realistic drill.


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## jollyjacktar

Update.  Shared with the usual caveat.  Full story, photos at link.

*HMCS Preserver crash leaves $500K repair bill*
Navy ship hit a floating dock during first cruise after $45M refit
CBC News Posted: Apr 24, 2012 10:12 PM AT 

The navy spent nearly half a million dollars to repair a supply ship that rammed into a dry dock in Halifax harbour last November.  Documents obtained by CBC News reveal the collision occurred during the ship's first cruise following a $45-million refit.  The Navy has been tight-lipped about the incident.  HCMS Preserver is the largest ship in Canada's East Coast fleet. At the time, it was under the control of its new Commander, Larry Jones.  This was the first time Jones had taken the ship from the dock. 

Read more:  article link


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Well! A steering gear breakdown in the narrows will ruin your day, especially on a tanker.

However, if the sequence of events reported by CBC is correct (a big caveat), I can see why the Commander lost confidence in the C.O. I won't comment on that here for obvious reasons.

As for the CORNER BROOK, I should hope CBC is going nowhere with request for document: Hello! Submarine ops are CLASSIFIED.


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## Occam

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> However, if the sequence of events reported by CBC is correct



If you look at the bottom of the CBC link provided, they posted a scan of the actual Signficant Incident Report sent by the ship, and the Initial Report filed a few days later.  Both documents go into pretty good detail as to what helm/engine orders were given.


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## Colin Parkinson

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> As for the CORNER BROOK, I should hope CBC is going nowhere with request for document: Hello! Submarine ops are CLASSIFIED.



Let me see:
Sub knew where it was and where it was going, but rock uncharted - unlikley to be a foul

Sub didn't know where it was and rock uncharted - foul

Sub knew where it was and where it was going,  rock charted- career altering event

Sub knew where it was but not where it was going,  rock uncharted - foul

Sub knew where it was but not where it was going,  rock charted - career altering event

did I miss any?


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