# "Leak of thousands of posts from defunct neo-Nazi forum offers clues to identify



## mariomike (9 Nov 2019)

In the news,



> CBC
> Nov 08, 2019
> 
> Leak of thousands of posts from defunct neo-Nazi forum offers clues to identify Canadian members
> ...



Rest of the story at link.


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## OceanBonfire (4 Dec 2019)

> *Navy investigating reservist who encouraged fellow members of neo-Nazi web forum to enlist*
> 
> Calgary reservist claims he no longer supports extremist ideology despite previous ties to hate groups
> 
> ...



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/navy-reservist-iron-march-data-1.5382424


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## Navy_Pete (4 Dec 2019)

Out of curiousity, what harm is the Anti Hate network saying he did? Sounds like the guy was an arsehole on the internet  when he was young, then realized it was dumb when he got outside of his little corner of the world and met some people through the reserves, and was actively seeking help. Is it really necessary to kick people forever when they are trying to better?

He's been exposed on the national news, and that will follow him pretty much forever whenever you google his name.  That will probably make him not get more than a few jobs and lose other opportunities. Assuming he probably was promoting hate speech in his little forum, but that's a big difference from actually doing it publicly.

If someone is making an effort to not be a jerk, and you keep kicking them down, odds are pretty good they'll just revert back. Rehabilitation has to be let people get back to some form of normal, or there is no incentive. That's why we allow criminal pardons and whatnot.


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## gryphonv (5 Dec 2019)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Out of curiousity, what harm is the Anti Hate network saying he did? Sounds like the guy was an arsehole on the internet  when he was young, then realized it was dumb when he got outside of his little corner of the world and met some people through the reserves, and was actively seeking help. Is it really necessary to kick people forever when they are trying to better?
> 
> He's been exposed on the national news, and that will follow him pretty much forever whenever you google his name.  That will probably make him not get more than a few jobs and lose other opportunities. Assuming he probably was promoting hate speech in his little forum, but that's a big difference from actually doing it publicly.
> 
> If someone is making an effort to not be a jerk, and you keep kicking them down, odds are pretty good they'll just revert back. Rehabilitation has to be let people get back to some form of normal, or there is no incentive. That's why we allow criminal pardons and whatnot.



Rehabilitation should be accepted if they truly rehabilitate. Question is how long does that take? How do they prove they are genuine. Etc.

There are no real answers that fit everyone. 

The bigger issue to me  is he most likely lied on his application to get into the military. Continued to be a member of the hate group/website after he swore in, thus violating his oath he took.

It is harder to believe a guy who has said whatever is needed to in the past to get what they want. Also makes it much harder to take anything he says at face value today.

This is going to haunt him for the rest of his life. And the CAF being bad PR adverse will more likely cut ties than support him.

At the end of the day he might be genuine in his desire and commitment to rehab. But is the risk to the CFs reputation if something more serious happens down the line worth it?

Also the likelyhood of him maintaining the proper security clearances now to keep his jo b may be all but impossible, regardless what his CoC believes.

Personally, I dont feel the risk is worth it.


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## brihard (5 Dec 2019)

I’m skeptical that someone does a full turnaround from being a leadership figure in the neo-Nazi movement in just eighteen or so months. In any case, there’s more than enough here for him to be an unacceptable security risk to CAF, as well, of course, as the impact on the CAF’s credibility with the public.

When you choose the behaviour, you choose the consequences. Sucks for him that his recent past actions have been ‘outed’. It’s his responsibility to prove that’s not who he is anymore.

There is inherent harm to society from the mere existence of groups of the sort that he helped administer. He fostered a climate that encouraged others to hate and to act on it. He deliberately encouraged other radicalized extremists to join CAF to gain equipment and skills. 

Maybe he actually has changed his ways since mid 2017. Not sure. But it’s not the institution’s responsibility to be a rehabilitative environment for neo-Nazis.

I will admit chuckling at the talk of joining the military to gain combat skills for the race war, then becoming a NavRes Sup Tech.


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## gryphonv (5 Dec 2019)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I will admit chuckling at the talk of joining the military to gain combat skills for the race war, then becoming a NavRes Sup Tech.



From the studio that brought you Under Siege, the new thriller action movie...Broken Supply Lines. Get to experience what happens when you piss off the wrong people . As immortalized in Sienfield...'No soup for you'


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## ArmyRick (5 Dec 2019)

So if I am a little off topic, mods please slap some sense into me.

This is absolutely unacceptable for such petty and hateful groups to exist like this. No place in our society for such BS.

NOW, its funny that CBC found this hidden obscure hate group (mostly online activities) and yet what have they done about one of the largest hate groups in existence, Antifa? Ohhhhh selective on who they name and shame?


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## Navy_Pete (5 Dec 2019)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Maybe he actually has changed his ways since mid 2017. Not sure. But it’s not the institution’s responsibility to be a rehabilitative environment for neo-Nazis.



For sure, I imagine he's gone after the admin review process and have no issue with that. I guess it was more frustration with the instant cancel culture where things from the past are never forgiven.

From how it reads though, he had left that in the past and had been making some kind of efforts to reform for the last few years, and this only came to light because of the data leak. A few people have popped up pretty surprised at this, because there was never an issue working as a minority for working with him, and they wouldn't have suspected him of being a racist. Not that it defends what he did, but does make me wonder how much of it was just pandering to the group to feel a sense of belonging.

He seems like the type that all the various groups target to radicalize (whether it's white supremacists or other terrorist groups like ISIS), but I think that there has to be a way for people like that to be able to deradicalize, shake off the brainwashing and reintegrate back into greater society or we're hooped.  Not sure how to get there, but didn't really sound like that was something the antihate group was interested in.


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## mariomike (5 Dec 2019)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> NOW, its funny that CBC found this hidden obscure hate group (mostly online activities) and yet what have they done about one of the largest hate groups in existence, Antifa?



Nothing new about anti-fascists in Toronto.

They took the streets back before the war to clear public spaces of Nazi sympathizers,
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22christie+pits%22+riot&sxsrf=ACYBGNSPZ-HbsxfJyy_Flv0PsfXdoLA48A:1575557637861&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0p8_K4Z7mAhXkY98KHbSXAWYQ_AUoAnoECA8QBA&biw=1280&bih=641


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## Bruce Monkhouse (29 Jul 2020)

I totally agree with the last line.



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/return-of-sailor-with-white-supremacist-past-sparks-protest-in-navy/ar-BB17jrAf?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

Return of sailor with white supremacist past sparks protest in navy 

Jeff Yates,


Members of a Canadian Forces Naval Reserve base in Calgary say they're upset at how the Armed Forces readmitted a sailor identified by CBC News as the former administrator of a neo-Nazi forum.
Four sailors at the HMCS Tecumseh Naval Reserve base reached out to CBC to speak out against the Royal Canadian Navy's decision to readmit Leading Seaman Boris Mihajlovic without, they say, reassuring them that he's no longer a threat.
In December, CBC News identified Mihajlovic as Moonlord, one of the former administrators of Iron March, a notorious neo-Nazi hate forum that gave rise to the terror group Atomwaffen Division. The site closed down in 2017.

"The command team never acknowledged the situation. Even last year, they brought everyone together to address [CBC's] article, but they never said his name, they never said what he did. It was really on the down-low," said one sailor who spoke on condition of anonymity because they fear reprisals from their superiors.
Reached by CBC at that time, Mihajlovic said he regretted his actions and he had taken steps to turn his life around. He sought counselling with Life After Hate, a group that helps extremists recover, and volunteered with an immigrant support organization.

The navy placed him on suspension pending investigation in the wake of the CBC report. In early July, Mihajlovic was seen working on the base.
Mihajlovic confirmed that he's back in the navy and that his return caused a disturbance, but declined to comment further.
Navy video 'too little, too late,' sailor says
On July 13, Cmdr. Joseph Banke sent a video statement to the base's staff explaining the decision to reinstate Mihajlovic. It's this video that upset the sailors, who say the navy's leadership was not transparent with Mihajlovic's reintegration and offered no reassurances that he was indeed rehabilitated.
"It's time now for us to be able to move forward. I believe in rehabilitation over retribution, and it's the time now for that member to come back and to work with us again," Banke said in the video, which was sent to CBC News by the concerned sailors.
"There are some of you that have felt very victimized by this. I hear you," Banke said. "We cannot counter hate with more hate. We need to build forward, together. We need to rehabilitate, together. We're going to support this member, together."
At no point in the video did Banke name Mihajlovic.

"That video was sent more than a week after the member had been reinstated in our unit. We felt that it was too little, too late, that maybe they should have warned us that this person was coming back," one of the sailors said.
All four sailors who spoke with CBC News asked to remain anonymous.
'It leaves a bad taste in my mouth'
In an email, the navy said the decision to reinstate Mihajlovic was made on July 15 and that the commander informed the crew in a video immediately after the decision was made.
"When there is a possibility of saving the career of a member who has been rehabilitated, the RCN attempts to do so by using official administrative measures," said Capt. Christopher Daniel, public affairs officer for the navy. "In such cases, corrective measures such as ethics training could be necessary."
Daniel declined to discuss further details of the investigation, citing privacy laws.
However, the sailors who contacted CBC say that the video was sent on July 13, and that Mihajlovic had returned to his post before it was broadcast.

The navy did not respond to followup questions about the contradictions between its official version and the sailors' accounts.
"It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I want to be able to tell [people of colour who work on the base] that this is not the type of place where we tolerate such nonsense, but now I can't," another sailor said.
"This has caused a stir like I have never seen in our unit."
Another sailor, who identifies as a visible minority, said that Mihajlovic's presence made them feel unsafe.
"I have been contemplating leaving or switching over to the Army because I don't want to be around this guy or in this environment. It doesn't make me feel comfortable at all," the sailor said.
"If they don't do something, I'm out of here."
'No perfect answer'

The consternation caused by the seaman's return raises the question of what is the best way to reintegrate someone who espoused a violent ideology.
Margaux Bennardi, the support and community engagement co-ordinator for the Centre for the Prevention of Radicalization Leading to Violence in Montreal, said that there is "no perfect answer," and cases are handled individually. But in this case, it would be important to give both the returning sailor and the other crew members resources to address their concerns.
"We would create a safe space where the other members could express their fears without being afraid of being judged," she said. This could be a person in the navy who would take their concerns seriously.
For the former extremist, it would be important to create "protective factors" like giving him a new community and sense of belonging, and reducing "vulnerability factors" like being ostracized and stigmatized, she said.
"If you take this away, it can be counterproductive."

© Skype/CBC Evan Balgord, executive director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, says the reintegration of former extremist can't happen without a public apology and gestures to re-earn the public's trust. 
Anti-hate groups reached by CBC News said that without a clear rebuke from the navy and a public apology from Mijahlovic, his reinstatement amounts to a slap on the wrist.
"He has never publicly divulged the full extent of his neo-Nazi involvement. He has never issued a full public apology for his actions and we have not seen him make amends for the harm he has done," Meyer H. May, executive director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, wrote in a statement on their website.
"We need to see him swear to make amends, and make those amends," Evan Balgord, executive director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, wrote on Twitter. "The Canadian Armed Forces has to allow him and encourage him to make that public apology in order to earn some measure of trust from the wider public in their decision to welcome him back."
Three of the four sailors who spoke to CBC felt that Mihajlovic has no place within the Armed Forces, even if he has deradicalized. They said that the fact that Mihajlovic had been an active member of the naval reserves while he was administrator of Iron March has tainted the uniform.
"I think that's great [that he says he has turned his life around]. I hope he has, and I want to believe he has, because it would be horrible if he had to live his life with such anger and hate in his heart," a sailor said.
"Unfortunately, though I think he deserves a second chance at life, I don't believe he should put on the uniform."


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## MilEME09 (29 Jul 2020)

I would argue his behavior, rehabilitated or not goes against even the latest Hateful conduct policy, not to mention our ethos. I do not know the full details but from what I have read the member should of been released, if your comrades cannot feel safe around you because of your views, you do not belong in our organization. 

If they are insisting in keeping him, he should never be put into a leadership position of any kind.


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## OceanBonfire (12 Aug 2020)

Today's update:



> *FSWC Meets with Navy Commander to Urge for Justice in Case of Reinstated Sailor with Neo-Nazi Ties*
> 
> ... We are very much looking forward to seeing a re-consideration of the previous investigation and decisions made with respect to this Seaman and for the review led by the Vice-Admiral to send a message loud and clear that neo-Nazis and white supremacists are not tolerated in the Canadian military. Not now or ever."
> 
> ...


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## Blackadder1916 (2 Feb 2021)

And an update, he's gone, this time hopefully for good.









						Sailor booted out of Canadian navy over involvement with online hate groups
					

A Calgary-based sailor has been kicked out of the Canadian Armed Forces for admitted involvement with online hate groups.



					calgary.ctvnews.ca
				





> The Canadian Press  Published Tuesday, February 2, 2021 4:24PM MST
> 
> OTTAWA -- A Calgary-based sailor has been kicked out of the Canadian Armed Forces for admitted involvement with online hate groups.
> 
> ...


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## FSTO (2 Feb 2021)

I know I'll get flamed for this, but, is there no path to redemption at all? 
So once you get marked with the scarlet letter that's it?


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## MJP (2 Feb 2021)

FSTO said:


> I know I'll get flamed for this, but, is there no path to redemption at all?
> So once you get marked with the scarlet letter that's it?


For things like this sure they can be strive to redeem themselves as a part of society writ large.  We don't need them in the CAF.  We need to be harsher not softer in our stance on these things IMHO.


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## Pelorus (3 Feb 2021)

FSTO said:


> I know I'll get flamed for this, but, is there no path to redemption at all?
> So once you get marked with the scarlet letter that's it?



In society? Sure, if he can prove that he has changed for the better in both belief and action. There's lots of stories out there of former gang-bangers, etc. (some of whom served prison sentences for violent crimes) turning their lives around and working with youth de-radicalization initiatives, etc.

The problem here IMO extends beyond just holding shitty beliefs about the world. I don't think that Canadian media did a very good job of fully explaining his posting history, likely an editorial decision to avoid publishing neo-nazi garbage to such a wide audience.

His role in white supremacist and neo-nazi movements was quite recent: the forum he moderated was pulled down in late 2017, and there's no indication that this was the end of his beliefs vice the open source trail on him simply going cold. It seems that he only claimed to disavow these beliefs after being publicly outed by the forum leaks. The forum's welcome page displayed the following bolded slogan showing you exactly what you were getting into:

"GAS THE KIKES, RACE WAR NOW, 1488 BOOTS ON THE GROUND!"

His forum posts and PMs identified during the data leak showed his support for racist violence. He described leaving Blood & Honour because in his mind the group had been watered down from revolutionary National Socialism and were distancing themselves from their past history of violence and crime.

He discussed logistics and prices for smuggling weapons into the EU from Bosnia, which apparently included in-person trips to the Balkans and association with the terrorist group Atomwaffen Division to facilitate. The intended customer had this to say on the forum: _"France is so aggravated by leftism that to speak of the Jewish question is a political suicide. The only way to bring a fascist regime to France is war." _The intended buyer also sent the following in a PM to the member regarding the sale of the discussed weapons: "_If I can have such materials, the future of France will be changed"._

In my mind, all of the above adds up to a man who will never hold a security clearance again, would almost certainly never hold a leadership role within the NAVRES, and would be a pariah within the unit. His continued employment within _Tecumseh_ would also probably be a deal breaker for a number of sailors at the unit, I know it would be for me.

What then is the value to the CAF of retention? To essentially make him an indefinite welfare case by continuing to pay and equip him while receiving nothing in return?

Would we be having the same conversation if a different reservist was revealed to have travelled to Syria a few years ago to fight for ISIS, but had claimed to be reformed after getting outed?


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## ModlrMike (3 Feb 2021)

He's being released more for the effect of his views, rather than the views themselves. As odious as his thoughts are, he has a right to them. What he doesn't have a right to, is to create a corrosive attitude within the ship that potentially endangers others. That he cannot retain the trust of others is the key issue here.


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## FSTO (3 Feb 2021)

boot12 said:


> In society? Sure, if he can prove that he has changed for the better in both belief and action. There's lots of stories out there of former gang-bangers, etc. (some of whom served prison sentences for violent crimes) turning their lives around and working with youth de-radicalization initiatives, etc.
> 
> The problem here IMO extends beyond just holding shitty beliefs about the world. I don't think that Canadian media did a very good job of fully explaining his posting history, likely an editorial decision to avoid publishing neo-nazi garbage to such a wide audience.
> 
> ...


Maybe, since our government has shown an ability to forgive the transgressions of persons with certain religious beliefs. 

Anyway, this is a toxic subject that in this day and age a person's responses and questions may be taken the wrong way.


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## The Bread Guy (3 Feb 2021)

Thought experiment:  if this same person's online activities could be summarized by the edited summaries listed below, who would be willing to just live & let live, and trust that he's being _truly_ de-radicalized?  



boot12 said:


> ... His role in *jihadist *movements was quite recent: the forum he moderated was pulled down in late 2017, and there's no indication that this was the end of his beliefs vice the open source trail on him simply going cold. It seems that he only claimed to disavow these beliefs after being publicly outed by the forum leaks. The forum's welcome page displayed the following bolded slogan showing you exactly what you were getting into:
> 
> "DEATH TO THE INFIDELS!  ALLAH MUST PREVAIL!"
> 
> ...





boot12 said:


> ... His role in *anti-fascist* movements was quite recent: the forum he moderated was pulled down in late 2017, and there's no indication that this was the end of his beliefs vice the open source trail on him simply going cold. It seems that he only claimed to disavow these beliefs after being publicly outed by the forum leaks. The forum's welcome page displayed the following bolded slogan showing you exactly what you were getting into:
> 
> "DEATH TO THE ONE PERCENT!  THE COMMUNE MUST PREVAIL!"
> 
> ...


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## mariomike (3 Feb 2021)

FSTO said:


> Maybe, since our government has shown an ability to forgive the transgressions of persons with certain religious beliefs.


Not sure if you are referring to politicians or employees? The "whatabout" defence has been used in civil service dismissal arbitrations.

ie: "What about the mayor? His behavior is much worse than mine!"

The arbitrator said because politicians are not employees, they can not be fired.

If the public is willing to tolerate their behavior, and keep re-electing a politician, there is very little the employer can do about it.


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## LittleBlackDevil (3 Feb 2021)

The Bread Guy said:


> Thought experiment:  if this same person's online activities could be summarized by the edited summaries listed below, who would be willing to just live & let live, and trust that he's being _truly_ de-radicalized?



I would suggest that our government would be willing to just live & let live, etc.

If you were more specifically asking who on this forum would be willing to just live & let live, I'm sure answers would vary. For myself, I would take it on a case-by-case basis and it would require a lot of scrutiny, but if the person is truly reformed they could actually be a unique "asset". 

That said, I think that absent some very strong proof of reform and rejection of "extremist" beliefs the default would be that such people are not appropriate people to be wearing the uniform. Openly calling for the murder of people on a forum is a lot more than simply holding certain beliefs. I would say that I think the SAME standard ought to be applied equally to Jihadists, Antifa-types, and neo-Nazis alike. Reading this thread it seems to me that the main bone of contention is that a (former?) Neo-Nazi gets jumped on with both feet whereas the others get lighter treatment and more benefit of a doubt (that said I'm not aware of any serving members of the CAF being outed as Jihadists or Antifa terrorists).


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## brihard (3 Feb 2021)

FSTO said:


> I know I'll get flamed for this, but, is there no path to redemption at all?
> So once you get marked with the scarlet letter that's it?


‘Redemption’ in a moral sense? Sure, potentially.

Security clearance and reliability screening? Check back in a decade, IMHO.

The liability and risk to Canada goes well beyond the individual’s desire to make amends and feel better about themselves. Let them redeem themselves outside of our national security infrastructure.


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## TCM621 (3 Feb 2021)

brihard said:


> ‘Redemption’ in a moral sense? Sure, potentially.
> 
> Security clearance and reliability screening? Check back in a decade, IMHO.
> 
> The liability and risk to Canada goes well beyond the individual’s desire to make amends and feel better about themselves. Let them redeem themselves outside of our national security infrastructure.


This lack of a redemption arc in society troubles me deeply. Who here didn't do stupid shit as a kid? Who here thinks the same way now as they did when they we 15or 16? Hell, I can think of a particular Base Disciplinary Chief was caught selling cocaine while in uniform as a young sailor. I'm old enough to remember guys who joined the military rather than go to jail. The military used to be seen as the place to go if you needed to turn your life around. The sad thing is that the quality of soldier, sailor or airman hasn't improved while we have been pickier and pickier. I remember losing good candidate over good candidate when I was working in recruiting for a reserve regiment. They weren't even joining because they wanted a job they just wanted to be in the army but after 9 months to a year of bs they lost interest.

I don't know this guy's story. But it seems as if this was in the past and he isn't the same person anymore.  It seems like maybe the CAF was what he needed instead he will probably fall right back into his old habits and instead of having a reformed white supremacist in the CAF, we will have a relapsed white supremacist who probably will hold stronger beliefs now than they did before. I all for throwing the book, the kitchen sink and a tire iron at anyone who actively advocates for, or takes part in, violence against a minority group based on their status as a minority group. I'm all for charges against people who act in a discriminatory manner in the course of their duties. I am all for remedial measures against anyone who acts in a manner that would make a reasonable person uncomfortable beyond the usual discomfort that comes from this crazy outfit. However, I do not like the idea of bands of people searching out individuals for tweets or forum posts they made years ago and leveraging that information to get them fired.

To take off my moral hat for a second, think about what this does to our security vulnerabilities. Imagine you were a dumb kid on 4chan back before you joined. For you old folks 4chan is a beautiful cesspool of anonymous people who have brought down criminals, turned racist words into running jokes and otherwise spread chaos. Now imagine a Russian hackers contacts you and says, "I have proof you posted these racist images on 4 Chan 10 years ago. Load this file on to a computer or I will send it to the press". The Russians have a lot of practice with this as they  used homosexual behavior and early commmunist leanings for example, as leverage against NATO personnel for most of the Cold War. I know most people think they would resist it but in reality a significant number people would fold like a lawn chair if threatened with the firing and public shaming that came with it.

In short, by all means get rid of anyone engaging in racist or otherwise discriminatory behavior, after following the appropriate process. Absolutely deny enlistment to people who hold these views currently. But people are not who they were. They are who they are now. Judge them as such and don't let an online mob decide who should be fired. IMO, a better approach would be to get the young fella to have a press conference talking about how the CAF saved him from those types of viewpoints, even if he has to told forcefully that the CAF has indeed saved him from those ideas.


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## Navy_Pete (3 Feb 2021)

I think running and moderating a neo-nazi chat forum is a bit more serious than posting stupid things as a kid. Also attempted arms dealing. Let's not trivialize what he did as 'boys will be boys'. This was way more than a few dumb memes; he was actively promoting white supremacy and tried to hook people up with assault rifles. I mean, holy shit.

He also didn't come clean about it himself; he was exposed after someone basically hacked the user records and doxed him. If he's seeking redemption now; great. But that involves genuine acts of contrition and a demonstrated change. He's welcome to do that somewhere else, but this is just a natural consequence of his actions. This guy has done SFA to demonstrate genuine remorse, but ball is totally in his court now if he wants to change, and there is nothing at all stopping him from learning from this and being a better person. But it's up to him to show that he's changed, not our responsibility to spoon feed him the opportunity.

We also have a duty to protect all our personnel; why should we force anyone to work with him? We either have zero tolerance for racism, or we don't. Keeping him in uniform was a pretty big indication that anything we previously said was just bullshit mouthservice, so glad this decision was reversed after further review.


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## daftandbarmy (3 Feb 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> I think running and moderating a neo-nazi chat forum is a bit more serious than posting stupid things as a kid. Also attempted arms dealing. Let's not trivialize what he did as 'boys will be boys'. This was way more than a few dumb memes; he was actively promoting white supremacy and tried to hook people up with assault rifles. I mean, holy shit.
> 
> He also didn't come clean about it himself; he was exposed after someone basically hacked the user records and doxed him. If he's seeking redemption now; great. But that involves genuine acts of contrition and a demonstrated change. He's welcome to do that somewhere else, but this is just a natural consequence of his actions. This guy has done SFA to demonstrate genuine remorse, but ball is totally in his court now if he wants to change, and there is nothing at all stopping him from learning from this and being a better person. But it's up to him to show that he's changed, not our responsibility to spoon feed him the opportunity.
> 
> We also have a duty to protect all our personnel; why should we force anyone to work with him? We either have zero tolerance for racism, or we don't. Keeping him in uniform was a pretty big indication that anything we previously said was just bullshit mouthservice, so glad this decision was reversed after further review.


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## brihard (3 Feb 2021)

TCM621 said:


> This lack of a redemption arc in society troubles me deeply. Who here didn't do stupid shit as a kid? Who here thinks the same way now as they did when they we 15or 16? Hell, I can think of a particular Base Disciplinary Chief was caught selling cocaine while in uniform as a young sailor. I'm old enough to remember guys who joined the military rather than go to jail. The military used to be seen as the place to go if you needed to turn your life around. The sad thing is that the quality of soldier, sailor or airman hasn't improved while we have been pickier and pickier. I remember losing good candidate over good candidate when I was working in recruiting for a reserve regiment. They weren't even joining because they wanted a job they just wanted to be in the army but after 9 months to a year of bs they lost interest.
> 
> I don't know this guy's story. But it seems as if this was in the past and he isn't the same person anymore.  It seems like maybe the CAF was what he needed instead he will probably fall right back into his old habits and instead of having a reformed white supremacist in the CAF, we will have a relapsed white supremacist who probably will hold stronger beliefs now than they did before. I all for throwing the book, the kitchen sink and a tire iron at anyone who actively advocates for, or takes part in, violence against a minority group based on their status as a minority group. I'm all for charges against people who act in a discriminatory manner in the course of their duties. I am all for remedial measures against anyone who acts in a manner that would make a reasonable person uncomfortable beyond the usual discomfort that comes from this crazy outfit. However, I do not like the idea of bands of people searching out individuals for tweets or forum posts they made years ago and leveraging that information to get them fired.
> 
> ...


Yeah, no. He’s not some dude in his 30s who posted a bit of dumb shit on 4chan a decade ago. He was a serving CAF member who less than four years ago literally was part of running a nazi website that advocated gassing Jews, and then he got caught.

So no; the known risk and compromise here more than necessitates booting his ass to the curb. There’s absolutely no reason he should be trusted in defense of our nation and its values. He literally encouraged his ilk to join CAF to gain skills they could use for political violence.

By all means let him seek repentance. Let him volunteer with deradicalization initiatives. Let him find some gainful, respectable employment somewhere. But there is too great a risk to trust him in any capacity with our nation’s defense or with its sensitive information. We are not so desperately hard pressed that we need to employ him any longer. He knowingly made his choices and they were bloody awful ones. His judgment and ethics are, in my mind, irrevocably compromised inasmuch is it relates to our ability to trust him in this way. That’s the product of his decisions, and I have zero sympathy for him.


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