# 'Did we push her too much?' Article on Major Michelle Mendes



## 54/102 CEF (20 Jun 2009)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/did-we-push-her-too-much/article1190591/

Any comments?


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## dustinm (20 Jun 2009)

> In 2003, despite roaring academic success, she so struggled with battlefield artillery training that she left the trade.



I probably sound very ignorant here, but is there a lot of academics involved in Artillery Officering?



> When she landed at the airfield in mid-April, *she was set to become the inaugural operations officer at the Kandahar Intelligence Fusion Centre*, or KIF-C, the international unit tasked with providing intelligence for the most volatile six southern provinces. The prestigious position had been offered to Canada by NATO for the first time just six weeks before, giving the nation a seat at an important table.



Can you turn down such an appointment, if you feel you're not ready? Perhaps it was a bad judgement call on Major Mendes' part.

Some other interesting parts:


> But when she went for the final leg of her [Artillery] training – Phase 4 it's called – she'd been away from the field for 18 months





> Still, with the help of Capt. Okros and others, she ultimately won a spot at intelligence. As one retired colonel who went to bat for her said to the branch brass, “Why miss the chance at this gem?


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## FastEddy (20 Jun 2009)

54/102 CEF said:
			
		

> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/did-we-push-her-too-much/article1190591/
> 
> Any comments?




Not to sound Harsh or Disrespectfull, "But if you can't stand the Heat, Get out of the Kitchen".

The article I imagine is to sound informative but leans to far towards Canonization.

Thankfully, any error in her assessment, reasoning or judgement was not conveyed to Field Troops which could have been Disastrous considering her Mental state.

Did we push her to hard, isn't that the name of the game.
She wanted the job, she got the job.

For what ever reason, its tragic that this young woman found it necessary to take her life, but speculating and trying to Analise on Hindsight IMO is only self serving.

Leave Maj Mendes rest in peace among the long list of others who chose to Serve their Country.


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## dapaterson (20 Jun 2009)

To the contrary - we have to look at such incidents and determine , to the best of our abilities, the why, so we can try to prevent it in the future.


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jun 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> To the contrary - we have to look at such incidents and determine , to the best of our abilities, the why, so we can try to prevent it in the future.



Here here, with the following caveat:  All we read isn't necessarily all there is to know in ANY situation, this included.

While the loss of a loved one is horrible in any circumstance, here's hoping Major Mendes' family can eventually move through the pain of this complicated grief....


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## gaspasser (20 Jun 2009)

Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but wasn't Maj. Ruckpaul also a INT O in KAF who committed suicide?  I had heard that he had told the Social work office that he didn't want to go and that it would be his 3rd+ tour and he would suicide because he had nothing left to give, if they sent him?  It sounds like being an INT O in KAF is not a good thing.  :2c:
My deepest regards to the families of both officers who gave all for the many.  


 :yellow:


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## dustinm (20 Jun 2009)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but wasn't Maj. Ruckpaul also a INT O in KAF who committed suicide?



http://www.thespec.com/printArticle/253926


> Ruckpaul, who began his military career with the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (RHLI) and was serving as an armoured officer


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## PMedMoe (20 Jun 2009)

Maj Ruckpaul was in Kabul, not KAF, IIRC.


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jun 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Maj Ruckpaul was in Kabul, not KAF, IIRC.



You recall correctly...
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=2463



> During the early morning of August 29, Major Raymond Ruckpaul was found suffering from the wound *in his living quarters located within the secure compound of the ISAF Headquarters in Kabul*.


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## bradlupa (20 Jun 2009)

Living in Northumberland County and close to Grafton as this young woman made her trip down the highway of heros the termendous amout of people on the side of the road and or the bridges was astounding.


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## chris_log (20 Jun 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> After _skimming_ the article, I get the impression that Maj Mendes was very much a Type A personality.  She appears to have taken on far too much in too little time and *may have wanted to deployment only because it was a requirement for advancement in her career.*



Some pretty judgemental comments coming from people who've never met Maj Mendes (in case you're wondering, I did and a number of people I know worked with her). 

Your comments are completely off base. And ignorant. And offensive. 

Edit: to highlight the comment I take issue with. This site usually dimisses most media articles about the CF as being full of BS (as they usually are) but suddenly this article is treated with an air of legitimacy (by some posters). It's unfair to comment that an abitious young officer (or NCM/NCO, it doesn't matter) takes a tour just to advance their career, especially when the person is now dead.


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## 54/102 CEF (20 Jun 2009)

Strike said:
			
		

> As for how the article should be a wake-up call, how so?  What do you mean, absolutely no CF comments?  Are you talking from people like us on the G&M site, or official reps?  Perhaps in order to respect the family of the deceased they felt it only prudent to react the same as they would for any other death in theatre immediately after the incident.



No comments on the would have, should have, could have variety we saw in the Christie Blatchford article. I think she throws out her high standards with this article.


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## Strike (20 Jun 2009)

54/102 CEF said:
			
		

> No comments on the would have, should have, could have variety we saw in the Christie Blatchford article. I think she throws out her high standards with this article.



Hind sight is 20/20.  Commenting on the would have et al in the sense of this article would have defeated the purpose, which seems to have been simply to tell the story of Maj Mendes.

I have no doubt that the questions are being asked within the medical and training community on how to avert such a thing from happening in the future.  I also have no doubt that her superiors, friends and family are all questioning themselves as to whether they should have seen something or maybe pushed her too far.

In the aviation community it's said that very step in the red pages of a check list is there because someone died by doing something different. (Not an actual fact, but you get the point.)  Let's hope that the right people are rehashing their own checklists with what they've learned in this event.


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jun 2009)

Now, for a bit more of the rest of the story, the family's letter to the Globe:


> .... We remain concerned that those who had only tangential involvement with Mic have chosen to speculate about issues of which they have incomplete knowledge. We believe that they and/or you have taken isolated snippets of information out of context to opine that some ignored issues and placed her career and the mission in Afghanistan ahead of her well being. Our conclusion reading your letter is that you are seeking a rational explanation for an irrational act and have decided to portray a vulnerable person pushed into crisis. We strongly encourage you to do more research to understand the more accepted explanations for these events and to avoid perpetuating unfounded views. This letter is provided in the hope that you will opt to provide a factual retelling of the amazing joy, hope and inspiration cast by how Mic lived rather than speculation on the manner in which her flame went out. We do not believe your readers would be well served by conjecture that lacks a factual basis and we know that Mic deserves better than that ....


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## dustinm (20 Jun 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Some pretty judgemental comments coming from people who've never met Maj Mendes (in case you're wondering, I did and a number of people I know worked with her).
> 
> Your comments are completely off base. And ignorant. And offensive.
> 
> Edit: to highlight the comment I take issue with. This site usually dimisses most media articles about the CF as being full of BS (as they usually are) but suddenly this article is treated with an air of legitimacy (by some posters)



I don't think the article is really about the CF, as much as it is the life of Major Mendes. It seems pretty clear to me that she showed a pattern of going "above and beyond the call of duty", and took on more than some people (including herself) may have been able to handle.

I would consider it due diligence to regularly assess yourself to make sure you're really capable of functioning effectively in your work environment, whatever it may be, and perhaps Major Mendes made a poor judgement call about what she was able to handle in light of the fact that a deployment (as the article mentioned and I suppose others can prove/disprove) improves one's career opportunities.

Edit: I really should start taking those "someone replied while you were reading" warnings more serious; consider the above conjecture, and take it with a grain of factual salt.


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## PMedMoe (20 Jun 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Some pretty judgemental comments coming from people who've never met Maj Mendes (in case you're wondering, I did and a number of people I know worked with her).
> 
> Your comments are completely off base. And ignorant. And offensive.
> 
> Edit: to highlight the comment I take issue with. This site usually dimisses most media articles about the CF as being full of BS (as they usually are) but suddenly this article is treated with an air of legitimacy (by some posters). It's unfair to comment that an abitious young officer (or NCM/NCO, it doesn't matter) takes a tour just to advance their career, especially when the person is now dead.



Note the words _may_ and _appears_ in my statement.  That is why it's called an opinion and not fact.  I have no wish to disparage Maj Mendes, unlike the article that wants to disparage the CF system.  

Here's another article running along the same lines:

Mental Health and the Military: A soldier's descent

Edit to add:  How can you be so certain I never met Maj Mendes?


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## vonGarvin (20 Jun 2009)

*MODS:*

Should this thread be split?  EG: from the majority of the thread that discusses Maj Mendes as an ad hoc "in memorium" to one that comments on the Globe Article?


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## 1feral1 (20 Jun 2009)

I did not know this woman, hell, she ws not even of driving age when I left the CF. That being said, over the past 33 years I will say that I have known a number of male CF members who have taken their own lives (and one female former soldier). All took their lives with firearms, shy of two (hangers). Some were comissioned, some were not.

There was obviously some internal struggle going on inside her, and she chose to end that on her terms, and for reasons we truly will not ever know. We must all remember its still a tragedy for her family and friends. A death is still a death.

I choose to let this person RIP no matter what the circumstances are/were. I don't think any of us should even attempt to analyse her death on an open public forum.

OWDU


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## mariomike (20 Jun 2009)

"Suicide in the Canadian Forces":
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=2870


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## George Wallace (20 Jun 2009)

My personal feeling on this:

I think that unless you are a commander (at any level) or a member of a A/G/J/N 2 or 3 Staff, and understand the meaning of "Consequences of Error" and its affects on their mental health as individuals, you shouldn't be commenting.  None of us are SMEs on the issues of mental health, and idle speculation only compounds the problem.


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## vonGarvin (20 Jun 2009)

If there are lessons to be learned from this, then so be it.  "Maybe" there were signs, "maybe" there weren't.  Remembering that hindsight is 20/20, all we can do is hopefully avoid a similar tragedy in the future.  Having said that, we must all remember that for all CF members, there indeed are outside influences that affect all of us.  Perhaps the "key" factor (if such a thing exists), was a personal matter was the proverbial straw that broke Maj Mendes' back, as it were.


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## chris_log (20 Jun 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Note the words _may_ and _appears_ in my statement.  That is why it's called an opinion and not fact.  I have no wish to disparage Maj Mendes, unlike the article that wants to disparage the CF system.



That's not how it came off. I've got opinions on lot of things, but there's also a proper time and place for them, and its not after they've died while serving their country and before an investigation has been completed. 



> Edit to add:  How can you be so certain I never met Maj Mendes?



I doubt it. Did you? Did you work with her for any period of time, attend meetings/briefings with her? Again, I doubt it based on your comments that she went on tour only for career advancement (which was exactly what was stated in the article, which is BS...considering the family's letter). 



> I don't think any of us should even attempt to analyse her death on an open public forum.



x2.


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## PMedMoe (20 Jun 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> I doubt it based on your comments that she went on tour only for career advancement (which was exactly what was stated in the article, which is BS...considering the family's letter).



Hence the reason I said may.



			
				Piper said:
			
		

> I doubt it. Did you?



Glad you think you know me so well.

At any rate, most comments here are correct.  We (on this forum) do not need to discuss her death and the reasons for it.  That's for the investigation and the CF mental health care section to do.  I will delete my first comment (and _opinion_.)


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## mariomike (20 Jun 2009)

I respect and learn from your comments and opinions, Moe.


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## leroi (20 Jun 2009)

I thought Canadians would never hear anything again about the death of Major Mendes. 

Simply because that is often the way in the world of Intel. Isn't it?  Doesn't national security take precedence

over the public's right to know?

I'm thinking about WWII and Camp X and the many people in history who died unsung heroes as secret operatives.

But when I read this G&M article this morning I was struck by the sensitivity of the writers to the issue.

The piece seemed well-crafted by a restrained, respectful hand. I thought they tried hard to embue

the piece with the mark of an exceptional human being and a life well-lived.

IMO ... just saying ... newspapers usually try to stir up controversy; whereas, this piece struck me as thoughtful--

a celebration of the Major's life with the suggestion that Icarus-like the Major aimed so high in standards of service to her country, that she singed her wings. Tragic.


Rest in Peace, Major Mendes.


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## Another Mom (21 Jun 2009)

There is a concept called "Imposter Syndrome" which is very  common  among gifted women. They feel  their success  has been due to luck, timing, personality, etc. and they  have a hard time believing they are  as capable as they are.  Rather than offering assurance, each new achievement and subsequent challenge and success only serves to intensify the ever-present fear of being found out. This is very common among women academics who tend to be perfectionists and very hard workers.  (It is common among certain types of men, too.)  I am not proposing this was the case for Major Mendes, but perhaps  psychologists in the Forces need to talk to those who are "stars" (as well as those whose are struggling) to see how they are "processing" their success.  RIP  Major Mendes and may your family someday find peace.


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## observor 69 (21 Jun 2009)

leroi said:
			
		

> I thought Canadians would never hear anything again about the death of Major Mendes.
> 
> Simply because that is often the way in the world of Intel. Isn't it?  Doesn't national security take precedence
> 
> ...



I agree that the approach of the article was to treat the story with respect and journalistic professionalism.
I am sure that Christie Blatchford was chosen to co-write this story based on her personal experience and knowledge with the Canadian Forces.
Jessica Leeder has spent a tour as a G&M corespondent in KAF.


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## armyvern (21 Jun 2009)

I read this article on Major Mendes and come to one conclusion only. That to attempt to determine a cause for anyone's taking their own life is _always_ idle speculation. The abundance of "what ifs" or "did we" or "did she" simply makes any determination of cause unfair and unjust.

I do know this: Major Mendes was a Canadian soldier who obviously enjoyed her life and her job. At the end of the day, she could justify her actions in her own mind and to herself. May she rest in peace.

_________________________

Now, if we want to idly speculate about pushing people too far and too fast - I'll offer this up:

Note: this has zero to do with Maj Mendes being female, an Officer, "too driven" or promoted "too fast/too soon" but rather is my observations of "ides as to cause" raised in the article:

The CF has an abundance of "very driven" people - some of these people regardless of station are being promoted well-ahead of and at a rate much faster than seen in historical and traditional timelines. This symptom of "too far, too fast" is COMMON in the CF these days - it, in and of itself, is NOT an unusual circumstance. There is a distinct and attributable cause for that fact ... the fact that recruiting into the CF floundered for almost a decade before the Government of Canada decided that you have to have, maintain and train "actual people" if you want to claim to have a standing forces capable of defending one's nation. Major Mendes, despite her progression in rank and the rate of such, was certainly not alone in that respect ... therefore this 'fact' means squat.

If anyone wishes to unequivecably infer that it did, or if they want to carry any guilt upon their own shoulders due to this 'pushing" ... I move that their guilt is misplaced.   

In an era where a 'push' to make leaders early and quickly (witness the exact same thing happening at the Jr Leader level within the NCMs --- MCpls, Sgts etc), no one single person is a "cause", nor is any "one single action." Not when the exact same thing is happening to hundreds of CF members. To view the good Major as being in a "unique situation" in this respect is just not factual.

"We" are promoting leaders early and quickly. We have no choice but to do that given the huge void in our "years of experience" bracket between 15 -20 years. This is not "our" fault and "we" did nothing to cause or encourage that lagging gap, but "we" are the ones who must now deal with it. I know of no better way to do that than to promote the best person "we" see for that job. That just makes common sense. 

I'll also move that Major Mendes' position within KiF-C, although prestigious, was also not unusual. Just as she was a new Major thrust into the spotlight, we have brand new rapidly promoted MCpls being thrust into the spotlight. Their spotlight may not be as large, but the weight of their sections and success is also carried upon their shoulders. Many of them are also working in the international context. The only degree here is to the _Nth_.

We have a Major who did what her country asked of her. She gave Canada all that she was capable of giving. In the end, if lessons can be learned within the health-care world from her circumstances, then she will be giving even more to those who come behind her; that is always a good thing.

Rest well and in peace Major Mendes.


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## leroi (21 Jun 2009)

That was a beautiful, intelligent, heartfelt post, Vern. 
I teared up a bit when I read  it.


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## muskrat89 (21 Jun 2009)

Thanks Vern. Well said.

If a shoemaker or hot dog vendor takes their own life, is it because they were "pushed too hard"? I don't know much about suicide, but I know that the road to that ending is a complicated one. Professionals with years of extensive training and in possession of far more information than us will never be able to declare "Aha - this is what happened!".

I can be certain that we, with little or no training and in possession of only bits and pieces of incomplete information - are not going to solve this on an internet message board.

Wishing peace and pride for the Major's family, friends and loved ones. Her service is appreciated.


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## Babbling Brooks (23 Jun 2009)

BruceR at Flit had some interesting commentary on this issue:

http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2009_06_22.html#006453

And I've weighed in myself at The Torch:

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/06/straw-and-camels-back.html

I didn't know Maj Mendes.  But as someone who left the military because of depression, I know what it's like to be in an emotional tailspin and be holding it together by the skin on your teeth because you can't imagine doing anything else with your life.  I can't speak to what motivated her, but I can say that when you have what it takes intellectually and physically to meet the demands of the job, and you love the feeling of achievement and camaraderie you get from working and playing with the most gripped, crazy, intense, loveable group of high-achievers you've ever had the good fortune to be associated with, it is intoxicating and addictive.  You don't want to admit that maybe you're not fit emotionally, or maybe you haven't got the coping tools down pat that you need.  What you _do_ know (correctly or not) is that if you fall apart, you'll not only be letting yourself and those who believe in you down, you'll lose your opportunity to do what you love with some of the best people in the world.

Letting go of that ain't easy.  For all too many, the alternative is to end it all, since you can't stand the thought of continuing on after getting hooked on the highs of that intense lifestyle.

None of us should sit in judgment of Maj Mendes.  But we do need to talk about depression in the CF, because it just gets worse with silence and ignorance.

This is especially true if you're leading anyone.  In my experience, there are a lot of leaders out there who assume that if you have the tools in one area or another, that you should have the whole package.  I don't know the details in the case of Maj Mendes, but I wonder if her CoC engaged in a bit of wishful thinking about her emotional readiness because she was so VERY gripped on an intellectual and organizational level.  I'm not interested in blaming anyone, I just wonder what we can learn from this.

Anyhow, enough from me.  But please, we lose too many good people this way because we don't understand the problem.  Keep talking about it.


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