# What steps to take to rectrify the problem of my denial due to one issue ?



## tech2002 (17 Jul 2007)

I am looking for advice or what steps to take, this is my second day when I missed my work, because I am trying to clarify the decision that was given to me.
I don't want to through away 3 years of preparation to get recruited , I have set my goals to get fit and prepare mentally to be fitted to CF. Which I have achieved, I have passed all my tests expect one that resulted in my denial to get recruited. 
For the last 3 years I have talk to number of officers at the recruiting centers and job fairs I went to, I have even spoke to medical officer. I do have one problem, I am deaf to my right ear, my nerve was damaged when I was born, I have find out  when I was 4 years old. I have learned to deal with, my left ear is 100% normal, I have went for tests to test if any hearing loss is happening to my left ear, for the last 27 years my left ear is normal no change in hearing loss, during the job fairs I have talked about my problem, and one officer help me out to get more info, I have choose three occupations, and he had my hearing tests etc, he told me that, I wouldn't have problems with getting enrolled to CF for those occupations I have chosen. It took me time to get fitted and get prep, applied for those 3 occupations, and I have passed all my tests, and interview, except I needed submit info on two things (medical related), which one of them was no problem, the other was my hearing tests. The result is that I am H3 class which again was acceptable for the occupations I have applied for, but not to enrolled to CF overall you need to be H2?, I have read all the info related to fitments, and I have learned that CF does award enrollment to CF based on medical condition that some of us might have (ex: eye sight, back, allergies , etc) , and on probational bases on the occupation that you choose. I have talked to actual some of the people that work in the occupation I enrolled for and what I was given in the letter doesn't really happen that often at all. 
I am torn apart, because I don't want to give up all this because of one issue I have, I never had issues with understanding or communicating with anybody, I have worked in noise production warehouse when noise was constant and my hearing haven't decay because of this. I have shoot before with Ak-47, M16, at practice range in US, my cousin is enrolled in US army, so i am know the noise level of weapons that they generate, anyway I have talked to officers at the recruiting center about the final occupation I chose which is 227 LCIS Tech, and didn't sounded as dangerous  as the letter states 
Can anybody shed some light on if I can appeal on this ? Should I write a letter directly to Medical office the person that sent me this letter ? and ask for re-evaluate the decision.


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## Bigmac (17 Jul 2007)

Sorry you didn't make it. Unfortunately the common hearing standard for CF enrolment is H2. You do not meet universality of service. The CF recruiters must follow the current policy. You can probably plead your case to the human rights commission.


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## tech2002 (18 Jul 2007)

That would be worthless case, I am coming to terms with this, I have over committed to this recruitment , I believed too many people , they gave me hopes, they gave me motivation, at the end the door got closed, no options, no guidance at all , I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me, but I feel that the policies they have are wrong, If I knew from the beginning that wouldn't stand chance I wouldn't apply, Somebody must get to top of this and let them know that the recruiting policy for individuals with certain problems should be deal at the beginning, before you apply or even start getting ready physically/mentally, individuals that have eyesight problems, certain asthma, allerigies have better chance of getting recruit, which can as well be dangerous in combat situations 
It is time for Defence department or whoever is reponsible to review minimum medical occupation requirements to universal fitment, 
it doesn't sound right to me for example: hearing you need to be H2 when they recruit you,  but the trade you apply for requires H3, doesn't make sense to me , and they are many trades which are set like that not only hearing, but vision, etc..  ??? :rage:


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## PMed (18 Jul 2007)

tech2002 said:
			
		

> It is time for Defence department or whoever is reponsible to review minimum medical occupation requirements to universal fitment,
> it doesn't sound right to me for example:* hearing you need to be H2 when they recruit you,  but the trade you apply for requires H3,* doesn't make sense to me , and they are many trades which are set like that not only hearing, but vision, etc..  ??? :rage:



as stated in the CFP 154:  A Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) is required for recruit candidates in order to ensure that they remain eligible for assignment to the widest range of MOCs. All applicants, except Canadian Rangers, must initially meet this minimum standard, although they may require a more rigid (higher) standard to enter/be assigned to some MOCs.


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## Michael OLeary (18 Jul 2007)

tech2002,

As you have explained it, you were turned down for the CF because you are deaf in your right ear.  This diagnosis, which you were fully aware of, does not meet the medical standards for recruiting.   Your current argument is that, because you have worked in noisy work environments before, that the CF standards for medical fitness should not apply to you, or should be lowered enough to allow you to join.

Unfortunately, it does not work that way.  Using your own examples of “eyesight problems, certain asthma, allergies”, we have seen on these forums examples of applicants being turned away for each of these problems when they fail to meet required standards. And for each condition, we have seen people come here and demand explanations why they couldn’t join, why they couldn’t ‘fulfill their dream’ of being a soldier, sailor or airman (assume any non-gender specific equivalent here).

We are all subject to the terms of universality of service (U of S), for every applicant who is prevented from enrolling because of U of S, there is a serving member who may soon be released because a change in their medical condition may place them in a medical category which prevents their retention. 

To be blunt, expecting the U of S standards to change to meet your desires is unrealistic and unlikely. There may have been small changes in U of S standards at times, but while a change from x2 to x3 could be possible in some situations (usually such a change would be driven by a need to match U of S standards to the available applicant pool in order to match supply and demand), it is unlikely that a change from H2 to H5(?) (deafness) would ever occur.

You do still have other options, such as pursuing a Public Service job with DND.  Regardless of where you finally choose a career path, please keep in mind that our strongest allies within Canada are civilians who understand and support the Canadian Forces and its soldiers, sailors or airmen (assume any non-gender specific equivalent here).


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## tech2002 (19 Jul 2007)

*qoute*" Your current argument is that, because you have worked in noisy work environments before, that the CF standards for medical fitness should not apply to you, or should be lowered enough to allow you to join."
 I don't mean that at all , because of the environment I was expose it will be the same, what should of happen at the beginning when I gave my papers (audiograms) at the job fairs I attend  to medical officer to review,  he should of told me at that time that there is a little chance for me to get enrolled, otherwise I wouldn't get through entire process of prep, when I went for interview and tests, I was sitting waiting for interview, there were 3 guys who held in their hand brown envelope, this is exactly the same envelope I got, all of them wanted talk to medical officer , they all go rejected, you could tell from their face expression that they were shocked, one of them was angry , and disbelief,  What I think should of happen before even applying to army (this is common practice used in Europe) , medical should of been done at the beginning of the process of recruitment, no interviews, no tests, until this part is straight out, this saves army time, and new possible recruit embarrassment , I can possibly imagine that these individuals feel rejection, and embarrassment , 
I am unhappy as well how this process went, and I think it is time to somebody to stepped in and fix this step.  

that is my suggestion.


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## Michael OLeary (19 Jul 2007)

Applicants can be rejected at any stage in the process.  If the medical was first and the interview last, then someone who completed the medical, physical fitness and CFAT tests would be angry (just like you are) when the interview turned up something that caused rejection after all of that.  There is a no simple solution, perhaps requiring every applicant to self-declare every reason for which they might be rejected and only conducting the applicable test before any other stage might be one feasible approach (but that, no doubt, would create its own problems of control of files and processing).


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## tech2002 (19 Jul 2007)

Only to save time and aggravation is to do medical screening before anything happens (that would be my recommendation) , if you pass medical test you may continue, if they find issue with something provide us full doctor report, and we will decide if this is anything that can effect you in job.. or come back to us later if the problem improves.. 

I would rather have this done before hand


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## Meridian (19 Jul 2007)

tech2002 said:
			
		

> Only to save time and aggravation is to do medical screening before anything happens (that would be my recommendation) , if you pass medical test you may continue, if they find issue with something provide us full doctor report, and we will decide if this is anything that can effect you in job.. or come back to us later if the problem improves..
> 
> I would rather have this done before hand



Not to throw salt on your wounds, but you knew going in that you were not as medically fit as the average Canadian - the average Canadian is not deaf in one ear.   With this in mind, you certainly set yourself up for a heavy fall if you expected that the Canadian Forces would have simply dismissed it.    While you may have thought they may accept it, there must have been some misgivings about that on your part...   so to go through the whole process expecting that your medical will have no problems is a bit silly.

I'm sorry you aren't able to meet the minimums; as a civilian I'm always happy to see a fellow citizen interested in our military and serving our country... not enough of the right people are, IMHO.


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## tech2002 (19 Jul 2007)

Just to add more info, I wouldn't bother applying if not the wrong info I have received from two Medical Officers, one was 3 years ago, and other 1 year ago, both of them had my info and knew about my condition, I have the letter from one of the medical officer who send me my copies of audiograms stating the trades that I can apply, based on my 'current condition' that I can be fitted to these occupations,  the third was at the medical test before the interview, I did ask questions again, and it sounds silly that I get these 'positive' responses, on the other note I get rejection, normally you would start asking questions , how is this entire process done, the letter is sign by one individual, is he/she the member of committee that  decide the final decision.. so many question, and little answers..  

I have made decision not to proceed with this since my faith has been decided.
I have decided to go back to my other occupation I have chosen 3 years ago and was going to apply at the job fair, but CF attracted me at that time.. 
I will try in mean time to apply for DND, but office jobs were not my favorite place to work.. :skull:


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2007)

tech2002 said:
			
		

> I have made decision not to proceed with this since my faith has been decided.
> I have decided to go back to my other occupation I have chosen 3 years ago and was going to apply at the job fair, but CF attracted me at that time..
> I will try in mean time to apply for DND, but office jobs were not my favorite place to work.. :skull:



tech2002,

Thanks for your time. We appreciate the amount of effort you've put forward in order to gain acceptance to our organization. We're sorry you didn't meet the minimum physical standard set out for all recruits. We're sorry if you felt mislead by possible wrong information by Medical Officers not in the position to speak to recruiting standards. Your perseverance and tenacious fortitude in pursuing your goal are admirable and desirable qualities within our profession. We're sorry for your misfortune, and wish you all the best of luck in whatever you do. Hopefully, within DND where your attributes will help those serving forward.


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