# CTS RUCKSACKS



## Andyboy (29 Jul 2005)

RUCKSACKS 
  
Disclaimer 
  
Reference Number PW-$$PR-708-27857  
Source ID FD.DP.QC.10077.C2 
Solicitation Number W8476-040015/A  
Published 27/07/2005  
Revised  
Closing 23/09/2005  02:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time EST  
Associated Components Yes  
Category Textiles and Apparel  
Tender Type Notice of Proposed Procurement (NPP)  
Region of Delivery QUEBEC ALBERTA  
Region of Opportunity  
Agreement Type Agreement on Internal Trade (AIT)  
Solicitation Method 

Estimated Value  
Organization Name Public Works and Government Services Canada (P)
Travaux publics et services gouvernementaux Canada 


GSINS N8465 INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT  




Trade Agreement: Agreement on Internal Trade (AIT)
Tendering Procedures: The bidder must supply Canadian goods
and/or services
Attachment: YES (PWGSC) Paper
Competitive Procurement Strategy: Best Overall  Proposal
Comprehensive Land Claim Agreement: No
Nature of Requirements:
RUCKSACK SYSTEM

The Department of National Defence (DND) has a requirement for
the supply of Rucksack Systems that are to be in accordance with
DND Technical Requirements detailed in the attachments to the
solicitation document and the Pattern Drawings and Sealed
Samples.  The Rucksacks are a component of the compatible,
integrated Load Carriage System (LCS) mandated under the Clothe
the Soldier Project.  The system includes a Tactical Vest, a
Rucksack and a Small Pack System, each with removable and
interchangeable storage pouches making it adaptable or
configurable according to mission, environment, and individual
needs.  Canadian Forces personnel conducting land operations
will use the Rucksacks.

This requirement is for a firm quantity of 50,240 Rucksacks plus
components that may be assembled to form the Rucksack Systems
(RS).  In addition, there are options for additional components
and findings.  RS are to be delivered to CFSD Montréal, Québec
and Lancaster Park, Alberta.

Mandatory Delivery:  Delivery to commence within 6 months after
award of Contract and be complete within 24 months after
pre-production sample approval.

Sealed samples may be viewed at the following offices:  Québec,
Québec; Montréal, Québec; Mississauga, Ontario; Winnipeg,
Manitoba; Edmonton, Alberta; Vancouver, B.C; and Gatineau,
Québec.

In addition to the samples in the regional offices, there are a
limited number of Sealed Samples of the Rucksack and accessories
available for individual viewing by the bidders.  Samples will
be released by courier, at Crown expense, upon written request
to the Contracting Authority on a first come first served basis.
 Early request will be essential to ensure receipt of the sample
during the bid period.  The industry is requested to restrict
their requests on a need basis only.  Bidders may retain the
sample for a period not to exceed 5 (five) calendar days.
Return of the sample by  courier (same day service) will be at
the bidders expense.

Canadian Content:
This requirement is solely limited to goods of Canadian origin
as detailed in the solicitation document.

Delivery Date Required: See Herein

The Crown retains the right to negotiate with suppliers on any
procurement.

Documents may be submitted in either official language of Canada.

Ritchie, Carol
11 Laurier St./ 11, rue Laurier
6B1, Place du Portage
Gatineau, Québec K1A 0S5
(819) 956-3830 (    )


  
Disclaimer 
  
Reference Number PW-$$PR-708-27857  
Source ID FD.DP.QC.10077.C2 
Solicitation Number W8476-040015/A  
Published 27/07/2005  
Revised  
Closing 23/09/2005  02:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time EST  
Associated Components Yes  
Category Textiles and Apparel  
Tender Type Notice of Proposed Procurement (NPP)  
Region of Delivery QUEBEC ALBERTA  
Region of Opportunity  
Agreement Type Agreement on Internal Trade (AIT)  
Solicitation Method 

Estimated Value  
Organization Name Public Works and Government Services Canada (P)
Travaux publics et services gouvernementaux Canada 


GSINS N8465 INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT  




Trade Agreement: Agreement on Internal Trade (AIT)
Tendering Procedures: The bidder must supply Canadian goods
and/or services
Attachment: YES (PWGSC) Paper
Competitive Procurement Strategy: Best Overall  Proposal
Comprehensive Land Claim Agreement: No
Nature of Requirements:
RUCKSACK SYSTEM

The Department of National Defence (DND) has a requirement for
the supply of Rucksack Systems that are to be in accordance with
DND Technical Requirements detailed in the attachments to the
solicitation document and the Pattern Drawings and Sealed
Samples.  The Rucksacks are a component of the compatible,
integrated Load Carriage System (LCS) mandated under the Clothe
the Soldier Project.  The system includes a Tactical Vest, a
Rucksack and a Small Pack System, each with removable and
interchangeable storage pouches making it adaptable or
configurable according to mission, environment, and individual
needs.  Canadian Forces personnel conducting land operations
will use the Rucksacks.

This requirement is for a firm quantity of 50,240 Rucksacks plus
components that may be assembled to form the Rucksack Systems
(RS).  In addition, there are options for additional components
and findings.  RS are to be delivered to CFSD Montréal, Québec
and Lancaster Park, Alberta.

Mandatory Delivery:  Delivery to commence within 6 months after
award of Contract and be complete within 24 months after
pre-production sample approval.

Sealed samples may be viewed at the following offices:  Québec,
Québec; Montréal, Québec; Mississauga, Ontario; Winnipeg,
Manitoba; Edmonton, Alberta; Vancouver, B.C; and Gatineau,
Québec.

In addition to the samples in the regional offices, there are a
limited number of Sealed Samples of the Rucksack and accessories
available for individual viewing by the bidders.  Samples will
be released by courier, at Crown expense, upon written request
to the Contracting Authority on a first come first served basis.
 Early request will be essential to ensure receipt of the sample
during the bid period.  The industry is requested to restrict
their requests on a need basis only.  Bidders may retain the
sample for a period not to exceed 5 (five) calendar days.
Return of the sample by  courier (same day service) will be at
the bidders expense.

Canadian Content:
This requirement is solely limited to goods of Canadian origin
as detailed in the solicitation document.

Delivery Date Required: See Herein

The Crown retains the right to negotiate with suppliers on any
procurement.

Documents may be submitted in either official language of Canada.

Ritchie, Carol
11 Laurier St./ 11, rue Laurier
6B1, Place du Portage
Gatineau, Québec K1A 0S5
(819) 956-3830 (    )


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## Scoobie Newbie (29 Jul 2005)

I think I missed something.  What was the point to your post?


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## -rb (29 Jul 2005)

Perhaps the process has been sped up for the CTS rucksack delivery issue? I thought i read on here somewhere, please forgive me if I'm wrong but that some were projecting delivery date for the ruck to be around 2010??

If this bid closes in sept. , delivery begins within 6 months and completes within two years, the final shipment would be around 2008 or sooner?

just a thought, i'm sure Andyboy can clear it up though.

cheers.


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## Andyboy (29 Jul 2005)

Sorry CFL, I thought you would be able to figure it out on your own, this basically means that bidding for the manufacturing of the new ruck is now open. 

Yukon, you have it partially right except that you've omitted the selection portion of the process. Bidding closes in Sept which is when the assessement and selection process begins. Once the winner is announced they have six months to ramp up and start deliveries which end two years later. 

 How long selection process will take is the key question.


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## PViddy (29 Jul 2005)

Hey guys,

Just thought i would add.  I was watching the CBC the other day on a news story about our troops heading back to Afghanistan.  I don't know what everyone was wearing, but it was definately some form of CADPAT rucksack or day pack.  They looked pretty shiny-new.

have they issued out to any units yet fro trials ? or perhaps this has been covered?


cheers

PV


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## clinton_84 (29 Jul 2005)

probably the smallpack system they issued back around november, least thats when i got mine anyways,


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## kyleg (30 Jul 2005)

That reminds me, I saw a guy with a small pack at LaRonde (Montreal's theme park) the other day... lucky bastard, I want mine!   Any word on when PRes will get them?

Cheers,
Pinky


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## pappy (2 Aug 2005)

Andyboy,  I hope to see one before 2010   haha wonder if one will show up in the mail.  How's life treating you Andyboy? fill me in when you get a chance and some free time.

Semper Fi


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## jmackenzie_15 (2 Aug 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> That reminds me, I saw a guy with a small pack at LaRonde (Montreal's theme park) the other day... lucky *******, I want mine!    Any word on when PRes will get them?
> 
> Cheers,
> Pinky



 A few guys from my unit managed to steal a few from supply in gagetown.
As for when they get issued en mass to the reserves? haha 10 years.


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## pappy (2 Aug 2005)

are these phototypes or aftermarket?  Hopefully they change all that black webbing...


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Aug 2005)

jmackenzie_15 said:
			
		

> A few guys from my unit managed to steal a few from supply in gagetown.



It's totally beyond me why some still insist on posting information like this. It's not funny or cute. It serves no purpose except to reflect badly on your peers, Unit and the CF. In the extreme, there may now be some soldier on deployment that's short gear, so your buddies can look cool. Time to grow up.


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## Bomber (2 Aug 2005)

Pappy, the one you have looks aftermarket, ours sort of resembles the marines new ruck

http://www.arcteryx.com/leaf/index.asp

only there is an internal valise at the bottom 12 inches of the ruck with three buckles closing it off.


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## Andyboy (2 Aug 2005)

Pappy,

Nice floor. Slate? What you've posted there looks like the ruck Gregory made for a Canadian client which I think is the SPEAR ruck. If I recall correctly they purchased them without too much operator input and a lot of hte guys weren't too happy with them.  I recall seeing a smaller one as well. I'm not sure of the model but I'll bet you've got one of those too. Nice enough packs on their own but not hte best thing out there. 

I have some pics of a prototype of the new CF ruck from Ostrom that I can post if anyone is interested. It may take a little while to dig them up but I can do it. 

Andrew


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## KevinB (2 Aug 2005)

I'd love to see it...


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## Scoobie Newbie (2 Aug 2005)

I can't believe you haven't already.


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## kyleg (2 Aug 2005)

One of the corporals in my Platoon borrows her roommate's once in a while (no idea where/how he got it) and she says it's the cat's anus. She says she gets no back pain whatsoever any more (I assume the 82 pat gave her some trouble) and it works like a charm. The only complaint seems to be the one that accompanies all of the new kit: not enough room. Since the sleeping bag goes inside the bottom compartment (or top, if you prefer) it leaves less room for the rest of your kit. Bear in mind this is just what I gathered from hearing/listening to her, so it may not be 100% accurate.

Cheers,
Pinky

P.S. Less space or not, it doesn't look too shabby


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## Scoobie Newbie (2 Aug 2005)

ANYTHING save for a potato sack would be better then the 82 frame.


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## Kal (2 Aug 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> The only complaint seems to be the one that accompanies all of the new kit: not enough room. Since the sleeping bag goes inside the bottom compartment (or top, if you prefer) it leaves less room for the rest of your kit.



     Snugpak...  Wiggy's.......


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## pappy (3 Aug 2005)

not my CADPAT Ruck, My buddy up north had it along with some other nice stuff, I just snapped a few picks on a visit.
I passed up on the Ruck for a few other interesting items he traded me.  

I have a feeling it's gone by now.


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## pappy (3 Aug 2005)

Kal, 
I agree with you Sungpak makes some dandy sleeping bags.  I've used thier Merlin 3 down into the low teens (F) and was comfy.  But I sleep a tad warm.  For colder I've got a nice Integral Design's North Twin, real nice bag. I hear some boys up there are using them too.

Haven't used any arc'teryx gear yet, they do some real good gear too from what I've heard.  Damn nice to see the Corps buying some good gear.  I remember when the only stuff we got was left-overs from the US Army or could roll some Air Force guys in Korea for.... those sob's had better cold weather gear to use running from one heated building to another then the Corps had and we lived out in the open...... burrrrrrr  we killed for them styling wool shirts, pretty bad when "high-tech" then was surplus from the Korean War.

Warms my heart to see the New Corps with good gear and getting better....


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## Matt_Fisher (3 Aug 2005)

Pappy,

Andy is correct about that pack you posted pics of.  It was a Canadianized version of the much-despised Gregory UM-21 that itself was developed for US SOCOM.  

I have a reliable source that tells me that a certain Canadian client has ditched the Gregory ruck, decided not to wait or use the CTS ruck and has purchased a sizable number of Kifaru EMRs in coyote brown.

On the subject of the new Arc'Teryx ruck, I've heard mixed reviews of it from folks in the Corps.  Some guys love it, while others complain that the hipbelt chafes.  It's leagues above the old ALICE pack though, but I'm not going to be retiring my Kifaru EMR for it when I get it issued...which is probably a moot point as my enlistment is up next May and our unit is still issuing ALICE med. packs w/o frames, USGI LBVs and other ALICE gear.  We're probably the only unit in the MC that didn't go through the MOLLE 1 and MOLLE 2 issues.  I'd put money on the belief that if I came back to the unit in 5 years time, they'd still be issuing the same beat-up ALICE gear.


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## Scoobie Newbie (3 Aug 2005)

Its funny hearing about our brothers south of us complaining aboot kit.


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## kyleg (3 Aug 2005)

Nice touch on the aboot  

I just discovered that I can stuff my issue sleeping bag into my Outdoor Research Helium compression stuff sack (size #4 I believe) and it cinches down the the size of a fattened football. I was pretty surprised.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Scoobie Newbie (3 Aug 2005)

Thank you.


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## Matt_Fisher (3 Aug 2005)

I've got all kinds of complaints... 

My Gen II ECWCS woodland gore-tex doesn't match my digital uniform, I'm having to wait for the new digital Gore-Tex APECS stuff
I'm having to use a set of AN-PVS 7B NVGs rather than a set of the new PVS-14s
I've only got to go to the range 3 times this year to put about 1200 rounds of 25mm through the spout of my LAV-25 
And the list goes on...


By the way, those OR stuffsacks are the bomb.  I'm using an older pre-china outsourcing #4 OR Hydroseal Compression Stuff Sack.  That thing will swallow my modular sleep system (patrol bag, intermediate bag and bivi cover) and compress it into the size of a small medicine ball.


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## Scoobie Newbie (3 Aug 2005)

In know why is the following a dispresct to you.  I feel your a valuable member and think highly of the service your in.  It is therefore understandable that your gripes have more weight then mine so

we have a rubber shower curtain for a rain coat
I think we have the MNVG's your refering to but JUST got them
range time of any caliber is once or twice and that's 5.56.  25mm Live, no chance unless we're oversea's.


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## Britney Spears (3 Aug 2005)

> My Gen II ECWCS woodland gore-tex doesn't match my digital uniform, I'm having to wait for the new digital Gore-Tex APECS stuff



Was there EVER a time when all our uniform items (including helmet covers, Armour,  jacket, rain gear) matched? I've never seen it. Maybe during WWII....


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## pappy (3 Aug 2005)

If we don't complain, somethings wroug.... haha
I think that holds true for all militarys

A bitching Marine is a happy Marine

I bet if you looked hard you'd find my name on some of that old ALICE crap  haha, yeah the Marine Corps does like to get thier moneys worth out of gear - using it till it's just worn out thread / fuzz


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## Matt_Fisher (3 Aug 2005)

In case you guys missed it, my remarks were on the sarcastic side of things.   ;D

When I left the CFs and became a Marine I thought that the Corps had cat's arse equipment.

Then when I was in Iraq and my unit got relieved by the 82nd Airborne, I realized what the true meaning of 'high speed kit' was.  These guys had M-4s with ACOGs and PEQ-2s, EVERYBODY had a set of AN-PVS 14s, the intra-squad radios, MICH helmets, kneepads and new MOLLE vests.   Their squad leaders had SINCGARS compatible MBITRs along with, their SAW gunners had the nice little 100 round cloth bags and the Elcan scopes, all their .50 cals and Mk-19s had thermal sights.

As Pappy said, a happy Marine is a bitching Marine.


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## Scoobie Newbie (4 Aug 2005)

I forgot you left the poor cousins.


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## Andyboy (5 Aug 2005)

These pics are a bit crap, they were taken with an old digital camera that was pretty shite. I have a few more pics if anyone is interested but they are about the same quality. Edited to add: Here's the photobucket account: "http://photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/?start=all"


<img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/DCP02212.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

<img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/DCP02230.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

<img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/DCP02217.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

<img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/DCP02225.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

<img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/DCP02221.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

<img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/AndrewKent/DCP02232.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


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## Kal (5 Aug 2005)

What is the volume of this pack?  It doesn't seem to be near the 80 litres of capacity stated on the clothe the soldier site.  Perhaps the pictures do not do it justice, though.


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## Matt_Fisher (5 Aug 2005)

Me thinks it looks a bit small for an 80L as well, but it's probably my eyes deceiving me. 

I wonder what made them go for a U shaped sleeping bag compartment rather than the traditional clamshell design?


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## PViddy (6 Aug 2005)

hey guys,

from the looks of it, i'm thinking it's somethin like a 65 expandable to 80.  I've been looking at a copuple of Lowe Alpine bags that have a similiar feature.  

Anyhow Matt, In my experience (with civi expedition bags) that u shape design works much better than the "clam shell" design you were referring to.  It opens and closes a lot easier with a compressed bag.  Also, the ruck will probably (?) have a drawstring divider inside the sperates the main compartment from the sleeping bag compartment so you can either side load or top load the bag.  Or if you need somthin in a hurry....

Anyways looks like a pretty good bag, is that last pic of the sleeping bag compartment ? if so, i love the design-looks like it has a stuff sack sewn into the bag ? nice.


cheers

PV


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## pappy (6 Aug 2005)

I noticed that suff sack too, nice touch Andyboy! Something tells me you have some input on that ruck.  Andyboy has a ton of great ideas, if DND is smart you guys in service will be seeing them.  Thanks for the pictures Andyboy

I like Kifaru's E&E bag idea Docked and locked to a larger pack, something you can grab on the down side you have to dump the larger ruck.


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## Andyboy (8 Aug 2005)

Thanks for the replies guys, 

I don't know what the volume of this pack is but I do know that it's pretty big, pretty heavy and has some problems with the suspension system. Through a friend I managed to borrow ten or so of these prototypes for a Cambrian team a few years back. I think all but a couple opted to use packs of their own instead, the ones who didn't used a lot of gun tape. Part of the problem was not receiving any instruction on the packs and part of the problem was that the packs needed instruction at all. They are a bit complicated and seem to be a bit "overdone". Just my opinion of course.

Pappy, I wish I had the opportunity to offer some input, as I'm sure most people here would. I'm afraid though that the design for this pack was completed long before I came on the scene. Thanks for the kind words, the really do mean a lot coming from you. If anyone in the mainstream CF is going to use any of my ideas it will most likely be through private purchase, as opposed to through an issue item. Better for everyone all around I think!


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## Britney Spears (8 Aug 2005)

> I don't know what the volume of this pack is but I do know that it's pretty big, pretty heavy and has some problems with the suspension system. Through a friend I managed to borrow ten or so of these prototypes for a Cambrian team a few years back. I think all but a couple opted to use packs of their own instead, the ones who didn't used a lot of gun tape. Part of the problem was not receiving any instruction on the packs and part of the problem was that the packs needed instruction at all. They are a bit complicated and seem to be a bit "overdone". Just my opinion of course.



Great, I'll be setting aside time in my schedule for the "New Rucksack - POS" thread when it comes, then.


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## pappy (8 Aug 2005)

Britney, I think until they start to issue pack mules with Ruck's soldiers and Marines everywhere will still compain about their ruck's   ;D

Or pack goats  ha ha we all know how some field exercises turn into giant goat screws...

Did some hiking with pack goats, interesting to say the least.  But something tells me once all the ordnance started going off so would the goats

wonder when the rations are gone which would be more tasty Goat or Mule?


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## Matt_Fisher (9 Aug 2005)

Goat.  Plus before you resort to butchering it for the meat, you could milk the nannies and make some field cheese.   ;D


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## pappy (9 Aug 2005)

yummi Goat cheese and ham slices.....  ;D


Oh man now PETA's gonna be after me....


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