# "Editorial: U of G to Honour War Criminal"



## MarkOttawa (10 Jan 2009)

From _thecannon.ca_, the online newsletter of the University of Guelph's Central Student Association (useful "Comments", do read them):
http://www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php?id=7723



> by Scott Gilbert
> 
> Jan 9, 2009 - "Retired Canadian general and chief of defence staff Rick Hillier will receive the Lincoln Alexander Outstanding Leader Award on Jan. 13 from the University of Guelph's College of Management and Economics (CME)."
> 
> ...



A post at _The Torch_:

"We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people." 
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/01/were-not-public-service-of-canada-were.html

And one by David Akin of Canwest News (a Guelph alumnus--he's taken action, good on him):

A request - and a complaint 
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2009/1/10/4052210.html

You can vote here, at right:

Do you think Rick Hillier deserves an award from U of G?
http://www.thecannon.ca/index.php

Mark
Ottawa


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## chris_log (10 Jan 2009)

Not trying to spam the site, however, I'll re-post it here.

There's a facebook group trying to counter this;

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44399707204#/group.php?gid=44399707204

or search "In defence of General (Ret'd) Hillier's award from the University of Guelph". This story has also been picked up by CTV South-West Ontario.


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## GAP (10 Jan 2009)

Just checked ( and voted) on the poll at U of G....it's 96% in favor of Rick....

To David Aiken, The Torch and others....they have all done a masterful job of putting this twit in his place....


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## Kat Stevens (10 Jan 2009)

If I never hear or read the words "Canada's role as peacekeepers" again, it'll be too soon.


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## Kirkhill (10 Jan 2009)

GAP said:
			
		

> Just checked ( and voted) on the poll at U of G....it's 96% in favor of Rick....
> 
> To David Aiken, The Torch and others....they have all done a masterful job of putting this twit in his place....



Agreed.

And a personal apology to you Piper.  In defence I can only say I didn't realize how much air time the twit was going to get.

Well done.


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## chris_log (10 Jan 2009)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Agreed.
> 
> And a personal apology to you Piper.  In defence I can only say I didn't realize how much air time the twit was going to get.
> 
> Well done.



No worries. The author has a knack for calling attention to himself and it's high time he got called on it. I've already called CTV to correct some inaccuracies in their reporting (i.e. this guy isn't a student anymore, so I hear, and is not a spokesman for U of G students in any way shape or form).


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## 22B (10 Jan 2009)

Guelph has a university? I thought they were famous for their barber college.


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## leroi (11 Jan 2009)

22B--barber college? No, it's often referred to affectionately as "Cow College"  or " U of  Moo" because it possess one of the best Veterinary Teaching facilities in the world. Believe it or not this university has a historic tradition of supporting the Canadian military. 

Anyway, that's beside the point of this discussion. 

Piper, I just checked in with The Cannon and noticed the Gilbert piece has undergone a transformation: the title's been changed slightly. Not that it makes a difference now that the damage has been done: the phrase "war criminal" has been replaced with "war monger."  

I think Scott Gilbert needs to offer a public apology to General Hillier. 

Piper again, thanks for the update re: the author of the libelous material having not even been a student???--the whole thing was a shame and a sham.


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## MarkOttawa (11 Jan 2009)

As for the change in the title of the editorial:

The courage (hah!) of their convictions 
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/01/courage-hah-of-their-convictions.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## leroi (11 Jan 2009)

Update: sometime late last night the reference to Paul Bernardo underwent a sleight-of-hand and was mysteriously removed. 

And this morning (between nine and ten) the libelous piece is gone altogether: http://www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php?id=7725

Editorial: Rick Hillier Editorial 
by The Cannon Operating Committee

Jan 11, 2009 - The editorial written by Scott Gilbert and posted on The Cannon Friday, January 9 has been removed while The Cannon operating committee investigates its appropriateness. As with other writing that appears on this website, this editorial does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Central Student Association and the Guelph Campus Co-op who jointly administer The Cannon.

( Someone finally had the presence of mind to consult a solicitor, methinks.)


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## MarkOttawa (11 Jan 2009)

Cached version of original editorial is here:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:yRRGY7sGuMkJ:www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php%3Fid%3D7723+%22The+Cannon%22+%22Rick+Hillier%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

Via Laura Payton:
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/cmd=post_comment/article_id=4052210/parent_id=1209749

Mark
Ottawa


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## chris_log (11 Jan 2009)

Thanks for finding that archived version of the article (I have a copy saved on the computer as well). Personally, I'm not letting this go util the author is fired from thecannon.ca, but I do appreciate the blog support this has gotten, almost entirely via the work of MarkOttawa.


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## leroi (11 Jan 2009)

WRT, the survey:  the survey question from The Cannon has changed but the values/findings have not. The values are the results for the Rick Hillier question (98% in support of General Hillier's award). The question has unscientifically been posed to load it and imply a particular majority undergraduate view on the Hamas/Israel conflict that is not legitimate:

Survey Results
Do you support Israel's current invasion of Palestine?

Answer:   Yes  98%    No  1%    It Depends  0%    Undecided  0%  

So now, Scott Gilbert and Andrew Garvie  are able to deliberately and dishonestly play with statistics with impunity as their wages are paid by the same undergraduates they misrepresent and toy with???

Oboy,  ... I'm angrier than I was yesterday. 

breathes and slowly exhales .....

Piper, how the f@ck (I never thought I'd almost say that word here. Sorry Mr. Bobbitt) do these two yellow-bellied, communist, sap-suckers continue to get away with this crap???


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## Nfld Sapper (11 Jan 2009)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Cached version of original editorial is here:
> http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:yRRGY7sGuMkJ:www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php%3Fid%3D7723+%22The+Cannon%22+%22Rick+Hillier%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca&client=firefox-a
> 
> Via Laura Payton:
> ...



Second link is dead.



> Re: A request - and a complaint
> by Laura Payton
> The post has been removed - but you can still google "The Cannon" and "Rick Hillier" to get the cached version.


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## chris_log (11 Jan 2009)

leroi said:
			
		

> WRT, the survey:  the survey question from The Cannon has changed but the values/findings have not. The values are the results for the Rick Hillier question (98% in support of General Hillier's award). The question has unscientifically been posed to load it and imply a particular majority undergraduate view on the Hamas/Israel conflict that is not legitimate:
> 
> Survey Results
> Do you support Israel's current invasion of Palestine?
> ...



Because thecannon.ca is their playground and the CSA is their enabler. It has to stop, somehow.


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## leroi (11 Jan 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Because thecannon.ca is their playground and the CSA is their enabler. *It has to stop, somehow.*



Yes.


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## gwp (11 Jan 2009)

leroi said:
			
		

> WRT, the survey:  the survey question from The Cannon has changed but the values/findings have not. The values are the results for the Rick Hillier question (98% in support of General Hillier's award). The question has unscientifically been posed to load it and imply a particular majority undergraduate view on the Hamas/Israel conflict that is not legitimate:
> Oboy,  ... I'm angrier than I was yesterday.



They are two separate survey items.  The Hillier questions is archived with the former items. 

http://www.thecannon.ca/lounge_survey_all.php


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## leroi (11 Jan 2009)

gwp said:
			
		

> They are two separate survey items.  The Hillier questions is archived with the former items.
> 
> http://www.thecannon.ca/lounge_survey_all.php



Well gwp, I might be wrong.  God know this middle-aged brain of mine has failed me before but I would swear on a stack of Bibles (I'm Christian), that those numbers I quoted were the same numbers I viewed before I hit the pillow at about 1:00 this morning.  At that time, the survey question was in  respect to (Ret'd) General Rick Hillier and was overwhelmingly in support of  his well-deserved Leadership Award.

Admittedly, I'm suspicious because the original piece of contentious yellow journalism was tweaked and "screwed with" all weekend. And that I _can_ prove; like Piper, I saved quite a lot of the crap (including the comments--most of which were very good--so if anyone wants them, I can send them out.)

But, what I can't believe is this: 98 individuals woke up early Sunday morning sometime between 9:00 and 10:00 a.m. and in rapid fire secession-- faster-than-a-speeding-bullet--posted responses to a totally different question.  

It's possible but unlikely.  And, I can't prove it because I did not save the survey results before I hit the pillow.


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## MarkOttawa (11 Jan 2009)

leroi: _Small Dead Animals_ may have had something to do with it:
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/010479.html

"*Update* - Jan 11, 2009
http://www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php?id=7725
 - _"The editorial written by Scott Gilbert and posted on The Cannon Friday, January 9 has been removed while The Cannon operating committee investigates its appropriateness."_

They have a new poll up, and this one's even better!"
http://www.thecannon.ca/index.php

A blogger's influence?

Mark
Ottawa


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jan 2009)

Well done all who twisted arms, one way or another!

For the sake of posterity, attached find Google Cache version of the original in .pdf and some comments, as well as the .pdf of the "oopsie" posted today.


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## mercury (12 Jan 2009)

You have the right to voice your opinions.  That right was given to you by Canadian servicemen who paid the supreme sacrifice.  I wonder what you have contributed to our great country?


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## Sigs Pig (12 Jan 2009)

Hi all,
Is this the same Scott Gilbert that ran in the 2006 election?
http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes2006/riding/134/

Says he got 111 votes as a Commie!

ME


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## MarkOttawa (12 Jan 2009)

Sigs Pig:  Yes it is.

Mark
Ottawa


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## chris_log (12 Jan 2009)

Sigs Pig said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Is this the same Scott Gilbert that ran in the 2006 election?
> http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes2006/riding/134/
> 
> ...



Gives you an idea of where his 'reporting' comes from.


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## leroi (12 Jan 2009)

Both of the only two editors of thecannon.ca are members of the communist party.

Contact the Staff
Andrew Garvie - editor 
agarvie@uoguelph.ca 
Scott Gilbert - editor 
editor@thecannon.ca 

A clip of Andrew Garvie with a comrad: http://news.guelphmercury.com/videogallery/387327

Bloggers did an excellent job over the weekend. The issues raised go beyond the original inflammatory piece of writing. For too long student newpapers have operated quietly and sometimes questionably. This example demonstrated how the blogosphere can offer some objectivity and badly needed oversight that's been lacking.


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## MarkOttawa (13 Jan 2009)

On the other hand, a student newspaper shows sense ;D:

"We're Tired Of Byers" 
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/01/were-tired-of-byers.html

Whoopee!

Mark
Ottawa


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## twistedcables (13 Jan 2009)

"We're not the public service of Canada," he said. "We're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."

I LOVED that one!

 :soldier:


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## Yrys (14 Jan 2009)

twistedcables said:
			
		

> I LOVED that one!



Me too ! (and I'm a civilian)

"Why is it our job to "kill people" in Afghanistan?" S.G.

Sigh!

Hillier never said that it was the job of Canadians (!!!) , 
he said it was "our" job i.e. the job of the army !
What does he thinks is the objective of an army ? Plant flowers  ???

"What about due process, or the right to a fair trial?" S.G.

Ever heard that there is no fair trial in WAR ? There is R.O.E. ?!?

Oh, well!


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## rod_barolo (14 Jan 2009)

Thanks to MarkOttawa for a well written piece, with very ironic timing in my case.  I am an older Guelph economics graduate who wants to join the army and just joined this site. While I certainly love extreme sports and the climbing and sky diving type stuff, that is only the icing on the cake.  I feel it is an extreme privilege to have been born in Canada. I would be honoured to serve my country.

I might be left of center in my politics, but I am really bothered by intellectually challenged people who would trash the reputation of honourable men that have given so much in service to their country.  The sincerity, thoughtfulness, emotional and even the cadence of that brave young infantry man Glen Villa's thoughts spoke as eloquently as a Barack Obama on the need for soldiers. I am very grateful that this country has people like Rick Hillier and Glen Villa that understand that if you truly deplore social injustices like 40% mortality for Afghan children etc then sometimes you have to be a MAN and do more than just watch a Micheal Moore film.


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## MarkOttawa (14 Jan 2009)

A good letter in the _Guelph Mercury_ (via _Spotlight on Military News and International Affairs_)   
http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/257-Eng.html

Hillier editorial did U of G a disservice
http://news.guelphmercury.com/Opinions/article/426696



> January 14, 2009
> 
> *Ryan Monkman*
> 
> ...


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## chris_log (14 Jan 2009)

Well the ceremony appears to have gone off without a hitch, minus a pathetic little poster set up in the University Center. Not sure if anyone else attended but I was regrettebly unable to as it fell right in the middle of a class I couldn't miss.

With the editorial removed and the award given to the good General, this issue can probably be laid to rest, although personally I will continue to keep the idiots at my student union in check until I mercifully leave academia and all the idiocy associated with it.


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## Yrys (14 Jan 2009)

If the laws are the same as in Québec, you could also go to the student union to ask for your money back...


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## chris_log (14 Jan 2009)

Yrys said:
			
		

> If the laws are the same as in Québec, you could also go to the student union to ask for your money back...



I tried and they said no.


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## Yrys (14 Jan 2009)

Then make a plaint at the administration of the university (which is the one collecting and donating the fees)
that they are acting illegally (if it is the case). There is usually a "vire-rectorat administation/finance" in universities...

Add : or a letter to the board of Governors, adress to the Board Chair (http://www.uoguelph.ca/secretariat/bog/) asking that the point be discuss at their next meeting, and/or the Finance Committee asking that the university give you your due, and take it on the next oayment thay are going to make to the association...

Board of Governors 

Board Chair: Evan Siddall       Board Vice‐Chairs:  Kathy Bardswick, Tye Burt 

Next meeting :
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 ‐ Board Meeting 1:30 ‐ 5:30 pm 

Finance Committee

Finance Committee 
Chair: Kathy Bardswick 

Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:00 am ‐ 12:00 pm


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## leroi (14 Jan 2009)

Piper,

If you can find the time, the next Ontarion submission deadline is this coming Monday at 1:00 pm. The controversy raised so many issues that could be explored:

1) Lack of editorial oversight, journalistic ethics, and libel at the cannon: point out that in an online medium, things cannot be erased. By changing "war criminal" to "war monger" the ad hominem was reinforced--not negated. Information cannot be made to disappear.

2) Why the campus communist party has their own online newspaper and the rest of the undergraduate body share one. (And, why student's are paying for two.)

3) Fiscal Restraint: a proposal to collapse the cannon and incorporate some of it's better features (like the share board) into the more democratic  Ontarion. 

4) Content: deconstruct Gilbert's ad hominem diatribe by placing General Hillier's comments back into the correct political/social/historical context. Provide examples from the Afghan mission.

5) Write about how _you_ feel about General Hillier and what his Leadership award meant to you personally. Linked with how upsetting it was to see him viciously attacked .

6) Write about the irony of these two avowed "communist, peace activists" hurling around words like militarism while exploiting/appropriating an artifact of WW1 as their symbol.  Also, the irony of them talking about peace using war/battle language. Consider this ad from their front page soliciting submissions: "Help us to load the Cannon. Write. Shoot. Contribute."

The written word seems to get noticed around here. I'm sure you're busy but even a couple of well written paragraphs would be excellent.

PM inbound.


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## Thompson_JM (14 Jan 2009)

leroi said:
			
		

> 6) Write about the irony of these two avowed "communist, peace activists" hurling around words like militarism while exploiting/appropriating an artifact of WW1 as their symbol.  Also, the irony of them talking about peace using war/battle language. Consider this ad from their front page soliciting submissions: "Help us to load the Cannon. Write. Shoot. Contribute."



I simply find it Ironic that a bunch of Far left Commie Hippie anti-war, pacifists named their paper AFTER A GUN!  ???


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## leroi (14 Jan 2009)

Tommy said:
			
		

> I simply find it Ironic that a bunch of Far left Commie Hippie anti-war, pacifists named their paper AFTER A GUN!  ???



Yes, it's sickening.


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## Kirkhill (14 Jan 2009)

Tommy said:
			
		

> I simply find it Ironic that a bunch of Far left Commie Hippie anti-war, pacifists named their paper AFTER A GUN!  ???



A:  They co-opted the paper.  It has been around along time and the Cannon itself (as university bulletin board) has been around a lot longer.  I attended UniGoo before David Akin.

B:  There is absolutely no conflict in the mind of the Marxist between opposing war and supporting violent revolution.  Or for that matter supporting violent suppression of dissent while opposing the violent suppression of dissent.

Means and Ends.  They's screwed up.


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## wildman0101 (14 Jan 2009)

murcury,,,
               ive worn that shoulder ssf flash mate,,, and who be you??? 
               ive served with this brigade,,, as it was reformed in 1977 
               after the original... im sure youve heard of it ...it was the devils
               brigade ww2... i dont see anything on your profile that gives 
               you the right to even falsh it ... i served with one of the 
               regiments that was in the original,,,  8ch.... check out the 
               attachments ive sent you... 
                                                           regards,,,
                                                           scoty b


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## chris_log (14 Jan 2009)

wildman0101 said:
			
		

> murcury,,,
> ive worn that shoulder ssf flash mate,,, and who be you???
> ive served with this brigade,,, as it was reformed in 1977
> after the original... im sure youve heard of it ...it was the devils
> ...



Stick to the topic and take the petty phallic comparisons to PM's. 



			
				Kirkhill said:
			
		

> A:  They co-opted the paper.  It has been around along time and the Cannon itself (as university bulletin board) has been around a lot longer.  I attended UniGoo before David Akin.
> 
> B:  There is absolutely no conflict in the mind of the Marxist between opposing war and supporting violent revolution.  Or for that matter supporting violent suppression of dissent while opposing the violent suppression of dissent.
> 
> Means and Ends.  They's screwed up.



And to add to that (I know you know, but for the others...) the website is named after an old (like 1800's old) cannon that is right smack in the middle of campus. It's a meeting point and great canvas for groups of students to paint ('painting the cannon' is an age old tradition for the different residences).



			
				leroi said:
			
		

> Piper,
> 
> If you can find the time, the next Ontarion submission deadline is this coming Monday at 1:00 pm. The controversy raised so many issues that could be explored:
> 
> ...



Good idea. The thought had passed my mind a number of times, but it's really a matter of finding the free time. I'm still waiting on word back from the cannon's staff on becoming a contributor.


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## MarkOttawa (15 Jan 2009)

_Guelph Mercury_ editorial, Jan. 15:

Hillier honour was well-placed
http://news.guelphmercury.com/Opinions/article/427161



> In an age when politicians and other public figures take inordinate pains to remain on guard and stay with the script, retired general Rick Hiller was a breath of glacial fresh air.
> 
> It was his penchant for speaking his mind -- often in very curt, blunt ways -- that endeared him to many in the media, to his supporters and of course to his troops. But it could grate his opponents, and there were a few of those on hand Tuesday [Jan. 13] at the University of Guelph. We're grateful it was only a few.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## chris_log (15 Jan 2009)

Keep an eye on tomorrow's Guelph Mercury too...


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## chris_log (16 Jan 2009)

Ta daa;

http://news.guelphmercury.com/Opinions/article/427650


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## Jorkapp (16 Jan 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Ta daa;
> 
> http://news.guelphmercury.com/Opinions/article/427650



That was well written. Kudos.

One of my friends who sits on CSA told me there will be an emergency meeting regarding the two renegades at the cannon, and it looks like there will be strong support to have them removed. I'll make sure he mentions the idea of an apology to students and Gen Hillier.


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## chris_log (16 Jan 2009)

AEC Kapp said:
			
		

> That was well written. Kudos.
> 
> One of my friends who sits on CSA told me there will be an emergency meeting regarding the two renegades at the cannon, and it looks like there will be strong support to have them removed. I'll make sure he mentions the idea of an apology to students and Gen Hillier.



Outstanding. Keep us posted and push the apology issue.


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## leroi (16 Jan 2009)

Excellent, excellent letter! It's a brave person who takes an honourable stand--like that written example.  I hope an apology will be forthcoming but somehow I doubt it will; it seems the two authors of this dishonesty have conveniently transferred their rant to the guelph peace alliance where the same out-of-context inaccuracies are being spewed.(I refer to the hundreds of flyers in evidence at Club Day, "Stop the Uof G From Awarding Militarism War Monger to Receive Lincoln Alexander Award.")

At least it's not being funded by the undergraduate student body.


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## Gronk (16 Jan 2009)

Kudos Piper,
                     Way to stand up to those spoiled brat, commie bast#rds.


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## HDE (16 Jan 2009)

"Thecannon" is a reference to a RN naval cannon, "Old Jeremiah", which graces the U of G campus.  Legend has it that a group of students once came up wth the resources to actually fire it, much to the dismay of the Admin (and a number of windows downrange).   A load of cement in the barrel soon followed.  On the Gilbert issue I think we have to keep things in context; there are something over 20,000 students and staff at the U of G so what a dozen "activists" say or do really amounts to a hill of beans.  Given the miserable response to their activities I'd say the message being sent is far from the one they're hoping for.


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## Jorkapp (20 Jan 2009)

Sadly, there was little push to have the editor fired, or to have him apologize.

The CSA has "covered it's ass" by removing the article, and from what I'm told, will likely be reposting a heavily edited version.

Right now I'm awestruck by the stupidity of the CSA, even now. This has gathered national attention, and the CSA is continuing to make UofG look like a bunch of commie hippies by not only keeping the editor on staff, but by reposting the article, regardless of how heavily edited it is.

People at CSA would be excellent military assets, they've proven their ability at digging themselves into a hole.


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## chris_log (20 Jan 2009)

AEC Kapp said:
			
		

> Sadly, there was little push to have the editor fired, or to have him apologize.
> 
> The CSA has "covered it's ***" by removing the article, and from what I'm told, will likely be reposting a heavily edited version.
> 
> ...



I'm not surprised at all.  :

Bloody commies.


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## chris_log (20 Jan 2009)

Sigh, the Communist Student Association (for those of you who don't go to Guelph, this is a play on the Central Student Association, the union we all involuntarily belong to) is at it again;

http://www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php?id=7725

They're calling the General a war criminal, again.


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## Nfld Sapper (20 Jan 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Sigh, the Communist Student Association (for those of you who don't go to Guelph, this is a play on the Central Student Association, the union we all involuntarily belong to) is at it again;
> 
> http://www.thecannon.ca/viewpoint_details.php#comment
> 
> They're calling the General a war criminal, again.



I get "Sorry, this news article was not found."  ???


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## chris_log (20 Jan 2009)

Sorry, link fixed now.


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jan 2009)

And, for the record in case things change AGAIN, here's the latest version in .pdf....

Again, well done to all fighting the good fight on this one!


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## George Wallace (20 Jan 2009)

Has this character, Scott Gilbert, ever done an honest days work, in the real world, in his life?




> Even my critics from the Campus Conservatives should heed the warnings of legal experts like Byers and Schabas even if they disagree with me personally. These credible allegations - supported by a growing body of evidence



Legal Experts like Byers.....................Obviously he hasn't read the Anti-Byers crowd in UBC.   I really wonder where in his fantasy world he is digging up so many "Credible Allegations", supported by a "Growing Body of Evidence"?   Has he mysteriously gotten himself embedded with the Troops in Afghanistan to do some undercover work?  

Can we send this fellow a roll of tinfoil to make a hat and jacket liner for his white coat with long sleeves that wrap all the way around the waste and buckle together?


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## chris_log (20 Jan 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Has this character, Scott Gilbert, ever done an honest days work, in the real world, in his life?
> 
> 
> Legal Experts like Byers.....................Obviously he hasn't read the Anti-Byers crowd in UBC.   I really wonder where in his fantasy world he is digging up so many "Credible Allegations", supported by a "Growing Body of Evidence"?   Has he mysteriously gotten himself embedded with the Troops in Afghanistan to do some undercover work?
> ...



I've fired off another letter to the editor of the Guelph Mercury, the city paper and have dutifully left a comment on the article. But other then that, it just seems hopeless. And I can't shake the though that I've given this communist scum sucker more legitimate press then he ever would have gotten had he been ignored.


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## leroi (21 Jan 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> I've fired off another letter to the editor of the Guelph Mercury, the city paper and have dutifully left a comment on the article. But other then that, it just seems hopeless. And I can't shake the though that I've given this communist scum sucker more legitimate press then he ever would have gotten had he been ignored.



I'm ignoring both him and thecannon.ca from now on. I can find much better things to read.

(Say, that Gilbert's quite the academic citing such erudite and academic sources as Byers, The Globe and Mail and The Toronto Star. : I bet he never gets past the front page of a newspaper.) /sarcasm off

BTW Piper, is it true he's not even a student?  Just hanging around to recruit for the communist party?


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## chris_log (23 Jan 2009)

leroi said:
			
		

> I'm ignoring both him and thecannon.ca from now on. I can find much better things to read.
> 
> (Say, that Gilbert's quite the academic citing such erudite and academic sources as Byers, The Globe and Mail and The Toronto Star. : I bet he never gets past the front page of a newspaper.) /sarcasm off
> 
> BTW Piper, is it true he's not even a student?  Just hanging around to recruit for the communist party?



Don't ignore the cannon totally, the other commie editor offered to post up my articles until they resolve 'technical' issues that preclude me from working directly for them. Stay tuned.


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## leroi (23 Jan 2009)

Piper,

I'm following what they're doing quite closely. Letters are being written but not to the cannon.

I scanned Gilbert's second letter. It also made me sick: now it's "trial by the MSM "quoting intellectual heavyweights such as Rosie Di Manno et. al.  :  

Do they even want to have a reasonable debate? 

Many of them believe the a-Q is something Harper and Bush dreamed up together. It's a plot to hire more security people in Canada and get oil ...

I've convinced myself that Gilbert is deliberately attempting to subvert two Canadian institutions in one fell swoop: the military and the university as a means of destabilizing social order in Canada.  

BTW, I thought of you today because I'm reading a real cool book, "Spyng 101: The RCMP's Secret Activity at Canadian Universities 1917-1997." Can't wait to read the chapter on Guelph! I said to myself, I bet Piper would find it interesting ...

If I can help with anything, don't hesitate to contact me.


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## leroi (23 Jan 2009)

I thought this was a good Letter to the Editor in the U of G's _Ontarion. _ Of course, the editors buried it at the back of the paper behind the anti-military rhetoric.

The author does an excellent job illustrating what CF members and their families are up against on _some_ Canadian campuses today. On the positive side, many people are fighting this trend, too. Although some here may be tiring of this topic, please hear this member's brave plea, for "just a little bit of respect." 

The Ontarion
Publication Date:
2009-01-22


To the Left, To the Left  


Every week since first year, I have opened up the Ontarion to find the same old anti-military, anti-war editorial, opinion, and political columns claiming to represent the "majority" of the student population. The decision to award General Rick Hillier the Lincoln Alexander Outstanding Leader Award was commendable. The University of Guelph was not making a political statement by giving this award to former General Hillier. They were awarding an individual who spoke his mind, (which did not always agree with the government in power) to ensure the well being of Canadian soldiers and their families under his leadership and guidance. A leader by example, he spent Christmas with the troops in Afghanistan, kept moral at an all-time high during difficult times, and transformed the Canadian Armed Forces for the better. 
I am tired of opening the Ontarion every week to find yet another article against Canadian Forces in Afghanistan, and against the Forces in general. You might be shocked to read this, but there are students here at U of G who are full or part-time members of the Canadian Forces, myself included. We attend classes, special lectures, play intramurals, and walk amongst the student population unnoticed. U of G does not allow recruiters on campus, and we are in fact discouraged to wear our uniforms on school property. I am proud to be a member of the CF, but sometimes, especially since the publication of Mr. Gilbert's piece on the cannon.ca, I am not so proud to be a part of the U of G. Not because of the institution itself, but because of a small disrespectful minority.
Free speech is a pinnacle of a democratic society, and I encourage citizens to constantly question their government and institutions of power. But do so respectfully, and without resorting to liable and slander. All I'm askin' is for a little respect. Just a little bit.

[Edited:name not published here]


Edit: re-format


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## ltmaverick25 (27 Jan 2009)

Piper et al,

Good work on keeping the fight alive against ignorant and disrespectful peons.

Also, please do not get discouraged by the continuous postings of these people.  They are after all excercising their right to freedom of speech which means there really is no way to stop them.  However, we can, and should continue to counter them.  Continue your posting and writing efforts if not for anything else but to ensure that the other side of the coin is well represented.  It does make a difference.

On another note, I am attening the Tri-University as a History grad student.  Although I take all my courses at the University of Waterloo, we are also directly affiliated with the University of Guelph.  I would be happy to assist in any future efforts.


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## leroi (27 Jan 2009)

ltmaverick25,

I saw your excellent posts elsewhere. You're right; it's important and we haven't given up. Good to know you're there for us. 

Any principled, responsible posting and writing you do will help.


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## ltmaverick25 (27 Jan 2009)

No worries, I am not above making endless principled responces, and can be quite long winded when I need to be 

I only wish I came across this stuff sooner.


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## George Wallace (27 Jan 2009)

Ah!  Looks like a Creative Writing Class outing/gathering may be in order.    >


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## leroi (27 Jan 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ah!  Looks like a Creative Writing Class outing/gathering may be in order.    >



Yes Mr. Wallace, come join us in Guelph and lend a hand. We hope to avoid the nasty pitfall of the_ ad hominem_ among other journalistic errors.


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## ltmaverick25 (28 Jan 2009)

I think George has already weighed in on the cannon boards


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## George Wallace (28 Jan 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> I think George has already weighed in on the cannon boards



Not this George.  Must have been my evil twin.


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## ltmaverick25 (28 Jan 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Not this George.  Must have been my evil twin.



Doh, your evil twin was a witty smart ass, I thought it had to be you!


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## George Wallace (28 Jan 2009)

ltmaverick25 said:
			
		

> Doh, your evil twin was a witty smart ass, I thought it had to be you!



Link ?


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## ltmaverick25 (28 Jan 2009)

Reference very first post of this thread.  The third link provided.  Brings you to the cannon.ca site.  On the right hand side you will see a link for the Hiller war criminal or war monger BS.  Click on that and you will see the article and the coments.  I cant provide a link right now, but will do so later if you havent already found it.


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## George Wallace (28 Jan 2009)

Had a look and even with APS, I will confirm that the George I read, wasn't me.   ;D


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## ltmaverick25 (28 Jan 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Had a look and even with APS, I will confirm that the George I read, wasn't me.   ;D



Well in that case, you are a slacker!  ;D


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## leroi (7 Feb 2009)

This U of G student is no _slacker _ and has my admiration; a second letter following up this student's first--in response to _The Cannon_ editorials (Re: Hillier Jan. 9, 10, 11.)

_The Ontarion_: Letters 2009-02-05 (Reproduced under Fair Dealings proviso of Copyright Act.)

Respecting Choices

I'm writing in response to the response by Steph Hughes to my letter about lack of support, and maybe even a little prejudice towards members of the Canadian Forces. Thank you for your response. However, I'd like to touch on some points that may have been missed in my last letter.

There is a great difference between being anti-war and anti-military. I believe you're correct in saying that war is sometimes "the only answer", but only because I am a true realist. It will be a happy day when mankind can put down their weapons and give each other a great big hug. I hope for the day there's total peace. But until then, we're going to have a military. There are few people in this world who are completely pro-war, military members included. Canadian Forces members are trained to do much more than fight, I assure you. 

The trouble with some folk, here at U of G, is that they fail to see past the uniform. While CF members at most universities across the country are encouraged to wear their uniform on campus at least once per week, we at U of G are advised against it. Out of respect for "popular" opinion at Guelph, we wear our uniforms on special occasions only (Remembrance Day). Recruiting is also banned from campus because a small minority believes our students can't think for themselves when it comes to a career.

About your comments on Remembrance Day, it does not bother me when I don't see many people wearing poppies. That is their choice. However, I am bothered when people try to tell me I shouldn't be wearing one, because I'm promoting war. Please respect the choices other people have made. Whether joining the military, or joining the Guelph peace alliance: to each his own. 

[name not published here]


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## ltmaverick25 (8 Feb 2009)

Whoever this person was replying to sounds like a completely ignorant and sheltered bonehead.


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## leroi (11 Feb 2009)

An editorial from the U of G:

The Ontarion   (Reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealings provision of the Copyright Act.)
http://theontarion.ca/viewarticle.php?id_pag=2139

Battles Over Leadership

Julia Chapman [editor] 
2009-02-05

Business was as usual in the Ontarion office last Friday morning. It was quiet, as a Friday usually is. I arrived, and did what I usually do: dump my stuff, talk to staff, check my inbox and glance at the University's homepage. Now, glancing at the University's homepage usually doesn't amount to anything scandalous, but on Friday it did a little.

The top story staring at me was, 'U of G to Present Outstanding Leader Award to Rick Hillier'. The Lincoln Alexander Outstanding Leader Award was presented by the College of Management and Economics on Tuesday. This wasn't the scandalous part. The scandalous part was what I knew was coming next: protest. My head said, "oh, shit" but in my gut, I was secretly a little excited because I knew some controversy was coming (every journalist likes a little controversy). And I was right. 

Later that afternoon, I received notification that Scott Gilbert, editor of thecannon.ca, the website run and regulated by the CSA and Guelph Campus Co-op, had written an editorial posted smack at the top of the site entitled 'U of G to honour war criminal'. A slew of posts both in protest and some agreeing to Gilbert's piece followed.

Since it's posting, the title of the editorial was once changed to 'war monger' instead of 'criminal' but was entirely removed by thecannon.ca's operating committee while they assessed it's appropriateness.

Meanwhile, the editorial was picked up by about a dozen blogs, CTV and prompted two Facebook groups; one in support of the award, the other very against. 

Former Ontarion Editor-in-Chief and now the National Affairs correspondent for CanWest News, David Akin, responded to Gilbert's piece in his blog, David Akin On The Hill. He did so in a way, he said, he never had before.

"I have never, in more than 25 years as a professional journalist ever written a letter to the editor complaining about someone's coverage or asking for someone to censor themselves but I did so today," said Akin in his blog posting. "I believe that speech must be free and should have as few limits as possible, even if that speech is occasionally hurtful. But this morning's piece, its placement, and its prominence was beyond the pale so here's what I wrote…"

Akin wrote asking thecannon.ca administrators to consider removing the piece.

I wholeheartedly agree with Akin. As a journalist, there are rare occasions when I would say speech should have some limits and it is my prerogative as an editor to encourage constructive debate, discussion and engagement in any given issue. 

Gilbert's editorial, the original headline in particular, was straight-up libelous. The accusations made by labeling Hillier as a "war criminal" and comparing his actions to those of Paul Bernardo, which Gilbert did in his original conclusion, are big accusations – not anything to be taken lightly. This is something any journalist would realize.

Thecannon.ca has an editor and several reporters hired to create online journalism for students. Akin has already made the points I'd like to make, and he said it best:

"[The] vicious attack on Canada's former chief of defence staff does little to advance any debate on an important public policy issue. And to allow such a smear to be published in a forum which claims to speak for 'the undergraduate students at the University of Guelph' brings dishonour to the University, the CSA and the undergrads."

I am not saying Gilbert doesn't have the right to discuss his opinion but, there are ways to discuss opinions constructively – this piece does not reflect that. The CSA and thecannon.ca's operating committee should consider being more proactive in their approach to publishing libelous material.

On a different note, the reaction from the award sparked a small conversation in our office. This award given by the CME was a tremendous one; recognizing leadership in today's society is a tremendous honour and is a most flattering label that leaves utmost responsibility on the chosen individual. Not to mention that Lincoln Alexander, an exceptional leader, has his name attached to this award. Huge honour.

One of the editors here noted that it is interesting that such a large honour was met with protest and ill-feelings from a substantial number of students. This award is meant to represent the University – much like what appears on affiliated websites – but based on some student reaction (see article in News section and because I asked for a taste), it doesn't seem as if all avenues were taken to choose a person who does fully represent what leadership means to the U of G community.

Last semester, I wrote an editorial entitled 'Actions and Words' discussing the actions and words of the CSA and Life Choice. I think these situations, thecannon.ca editorial in particular, where actions were taken and words were used without ample thought: It's about time that changed.


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## leroi (8 May 2010)

My bad for necro-posting but I coudn't resist.

It seems the author of the hateful libel which sparked this topic, Scott Gilbert, is in legal trouble.

Four Charged in Medical Pot Club Bust

Oh, almost forgot to mention: the two communist originators of the drivel have long been driven from their posts as editors of _The Cannon._

Gilbert's buddie Garvie's still writing for the _Guelph Young Communist League_:

Hamilton Cops Announce Surveillance of Progressive Movements


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## Long in the tooth (8 May 2010)

Scott Gilbert needs a better editor.  Using 'where' in place of 'were' is simply poor spelling and/or grammer.  'Nuff said!


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