# What does December 6 mean to you?



## TCBF (28 Mar 2005)

Well?

Tom


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## 1feral1 (28 Mar 2005)

The Halifax Explosion anniversary.

Wes


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## vangemeren (28 Mar 2005)

Depending the time in my life it meant three things:

1) Saint Nicholas Day when I lived in Germany as a very young child.
2) Anniversary of the Halifax Explosion on December 6, 1917. When I was in elementary and middle school, I lived in Halifax, so that was the occasion that was observed.
3) Highschool in Petawawa, the École Polytechnique Massacre in Montreal was the event that was observed.

So for me it has many meanings for me.


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## Drummy (28 Mar 2005)

It's the day I was sworn in, in 1956.   ;D

Drummy


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## TCBF (28 Mar 2005)

All good answers.  So, we have:

1. The Halifax Explosion, 6 Dec 1917, 2000 dead, 9000 wounded.  A whole bunch of them women and kids.

2. The Ecole Polytechnique killings.  15 dead, ? wounded.

We half mast our flags on 6 Dec for which of these events?

When are you Nova Scotians out there going to stand up for your dead?

Tom


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## spenco (28 Mar 2005)

The day before my birthday.


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## Ex-Dragoon (28 Mar 2005)

We have always have had  observances for the Halifax Explosion here Tom, not sure what you are getting at.


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## Infanteer (28 Mar 2005)

The day after December 5?


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2005)

Day before Pearl harbour ?


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## winchable (28 Mar 2005)

I thought it was the ribbons for the massacre, also I believe the rememberance is held as a memorial to violence against women as much as it is for that specific incedent.

Actually, you caught us, we just don't give a shit.
We Nova Scotians are a limp wristed bunch that like to go with the flow of things, not rippling the water too much..not shopping on Sundays...steer the level course, won't hear a peep out of us we're too busy at the VLT's, drinking and voting NDP.


We have a permanent memorial for the explosion as well as streets named after the ships and annual memorials held every year.
Though this might not be noticed as much as you move across Canada, afterall it wasn't the "Canada Explosion" and it's not as if we can have nationwide memorials and rememberances for "Violent accidents against shipping."
It really is a maritime specific issue as well.
Wouldn't expect someone in Alberta to understand a shipping tragedy the same way a Nova Scotian remembers the numerous shipwrecks and accidents that occur.

Also perhaps this is a case of "1 Person is a tragedy, 100,000 are a statistic."

Not quite sure what you'd like us to do.
Does it really make sense to start a nationwide campaign for an accident that occurred locally, under wartime conditions?


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## TCBF (28 Mar 2005)

That's what I wanted to ask others.  I emailed the mayor of Hfx and a few others asking if we should consider a "National Day of Mourning" or some such.  I was told my concern would be passed on, etc.
I know we don't teach national history anymore, but I am staggered by the fact that 15 lives are considered more worthy of half-masting than 2000.  The 100th anniversary is coming up in twelve years, it may be a time to right some wrongs.   I,too, sympathiize with the loss in Montreal, but the annual escapade of dragging out their deaths for the political purpose of male-bashing is disrespectful of the dead, and ultimately counterproductive.

I knew of the Halifax explosion  from school - Hugh MacLennan's book - but of the three years I was posted in Cornwallis, I don't think we heard of it once.  The historical aspect hit me after I realized the dates of the two events were the same, yet the casualty count was so disproportionate.  

As far as wartime goes, we did suffer more dead and about the same wounded at Vimy Ridge, but that was over four days.  

I think, if Montreal can be comemorated nationally, Halifax certainly can.

Has Dec 6 been hi-jacked by the Montreal killings? Can we get some balance on this?  How? 

Tom


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## winchable (28 Mar 2005)

I don't think it's quite to qualify which tragedy is worth more in terms of Half-masting value (not sure if that looks right to anyone but myself)

The Montreal massacre was notable (and in many ways exploitable) because it had a specific target and brought light to a little mentioned topic at the time (violence against women, sociopaths, psychopaths, shooting rampages) all are topics we are saturated with these days (BTK killers etc.) but it hardly seems right to stop remembering something because the media has sensationalized the topics so much since it came to light.

The problem with the Halifax explosion with regards to a national day of mourning is it was an accident, Sept 11 and Pearl Harbour will be remembered for years to come because they were actions initiated by the enemy and they effected a nation.

So while the 2 latter can be remembered as an attack on a nationality, whereas the explosion in Halifax was a mistake which affected the poorest part of a specific city which is often overlooked anyway.

So when asking someone in Toronto what their feelings are on the Halifax eplosion you won't get as much of a response as you would if you asked a person in New York about the Attack on Pearl Harbour.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see more recognition for the explosion outside of Halifax (we do alot, as I said, locally in rememberance) I just wonder if it's "National day of mourning" material (That sounds horrible but theres no other way of putting it)


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## Michael Dorosh (28 Mar 2005)

Great idea, now how about a national day of mourning for the victims of Frank Slide?

Tom, did you remember them at all last year?

Mike from Alberta


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## the 48th regulator (28 Mar 2005)

> It's the day I was sworn in, in 1956.
> 
> Drummy



Right on Drummy same here!!

1988 though

tess


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Right on Drummy same here!!
> 
> 1988 though
> 
> tess



Tess......you were born in 1988 ? That would have made you 6 years old when you and me went to Croatia  ;D


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## the 48th regulator (28 Mar 2005)

imagine the ribbing I got going on patroll with my tricycle...They even forced me to paint it white...

tess


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## TCBF (29 Mar 2005)

Well, if it was WINTER, the trike should have been painted white, right?



"Great idea, now how about a national day of mourning for the victims of Frank Slide?

Tom, did you remember them at all last year?

Mike from Alberta"

On our family's visit to it (1968?), I was actually quite amazed that, as a 13 yr old from Ontario, I had never heard of it.  So much for history.  I guess my original point was, if we are going to half-mast on Dec 6, don't 2000 dead outweigh 15?

Mike from Alberta can give us the stats on the Frank Slide.

Tom (from Alberta).


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## clasper (30 Mar 2005)

> Great idea, now how about a national day of mourning for the victims of Frank Slide


Or the Ocean Ranger?  Or the Quebec bridge?  Giant Mine?  Moose River Mine?  That nasty bus crash that killed a few schoolchildren?



			
				TCBF said:
			
		

> I guess my original point was, if we are going to half-mast on Dec 6, don't 2000 dead outweigh 15?



To be blunt, no.  The math doesn't work that way.  The Halifax explosion was a terrible disaster, but it was an accident.  The Montreal Massacre was a premeditated crime, which focuses our attention on ills that are still present in our society.  Whether you think it is self-flagellation or not, it is important to remember that violence against women is still around, and we should do what we can to prevent it.  It is not as important for most Canadians to remember how to prevent two cargo ships from colliding (although I hope the harbourmaster in Halifax remembers...)


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## TCBF (30 Mar 2005)

Should we not be preventing ALL violence?  Half of the spousal abuse (though admittedly not half the murders) is women hitting men.  Can we not solve a problem in this country without dividing along sexual lines and male-bashing?  Marc Lepine changed his name from Gamil Garbi.  He was the son of a serial wife-beating immigrant.  Do all Canadian men have to be dragged through the mud because a misogynist gets off the boat and raises his kid to hate women?  

I say we give it a rest.  We are pandering to liars and political opportunists.  It isn't about abuse any more, it's about power and votes.

Time to roll it up.

Tom


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Mar 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> Should we not be preventing ALL violence?  Half of the spousal abuse (though admittedly not half the murders) is women hitting men.  Can we not solve a problem in this country without dividing along sexual lines and male-bashing?  Marc Lepine changed his name from Gamil Garbi.  He was the son of a serial wife-beating immigrant.  Do all Canadian men have to be dragged through the mud because a misogynist gets off the boat and raises his kid to hate women?
> 
> I say we give it a rest.  We are pandering to liars and political opportunists.  It isn't about abuse any more, it's about power and votes.
> 
> ...



Hell, you'd think Marc Lepine was the only one to get treated like dirt by women...on the more frightening days I can come close to almost getting a glimmer of what might have been going through his head....hasn't everyone that isn't 6'5" tall with baby blue eyes, Schwarzenegger buns and driving a Porsche with the top down?   The events at the Polytechnique were tragic and well worth remembering.  I would argue that women aren't the only gender to be put at risk of violence, however.

Like I said in other threads - and this even relates to those stupid veterans pins - we only have so much sympathy to give before it all turns to white noise.  Sally Struthers and her starving kids, Alec Trebec and all the other celebs on the infomercials and commercials, 300 different colours of "I care this much" ribbons to wear on your lapel, National Road Kill Week where we can support the RSPCA, and blah and blah and blah....

Too many causes, not enough days in the year to remember them all.  Why try?  Pick your favourite and go with it.  

Why do you think AIDs gets more research money than Cancer, which kills more people every year (and AIDs being mainly a self-inflicted disease to boot)?

Are we SUPPOSED to remember with our brain - or our heart?


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## TCBF (30 Mar 2005)

"National Road Kill Week"

I love it! Whether you use a gun or a Goodyear, it's still harvesting... ;D

We are a society of victims.  We put victims on pedastals.  Not heroes (WHO are THEY?), victims.

What kind of a nation are we,  we that consider victims more usefull than heroes?

Tom


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