# Consideration for the Victoria Cross - Afghanistan



## Walt (10 Nov 2020)

Attached is a link to an interesting article regarding the potential to retroactively award the Victoria Cross to members of the Canadian Armed Forces who served in Afghanistan.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/victoria-cross-afghanistan-rick-hillier-1.5796078


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## daftandbarmy (11 Nov 2020)

Walt said:
			
		

> Attached is a link to an interesting article regarding the potential to retroactively award the Victoria Cross to members of the Canadian Armed Forces who served in Afghanistan.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/victoria-cross-afghanistan-rick-hillier-1.5796078



A couple of other VC citations, for UK recipients in AFG, by way of comparison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Leakey#:~:text=In%202015%2C%20Leakey%20was%20awarded,Afghanistan%2C%20on%2022%20August%202013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Budd#:~:text=He%20was%20the%2020th%20UK,of%20the%20Second%20World%20War.

Given some of the actions they were invovled in, I'm sure that at least one of our SMV recipients would qualify...


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## dapaterson (11 Nov 2020)

So, to recap: two CDSes who were responsible for H&R during the CAF engagement in Afghanistan who never saw fit to recommend any action for a VC, are now saying that their work was shoddy, and should be revisited?


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## daftandbarmy (11 Nov 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, to recap: two CDSes who were responsible for H&R during the CAF engagement in Afghanistan who never saw fit to recommend any action for a VC, are now saying that their work was shoddy, and should be revisited?



Oh, you're goooood  :nod:


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## FJAG (12 Nov 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, to recap: two CDSes who were responsible for H&R during the CAF engagement in Afghanistan who never saw fit to recommend any action for a VC, are now saying that their work was shoddy, and should be revisited?



Sigh.  :waiting:


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## Haggis (12 Nov 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, to recap: two CDSes who were responsible for H&R during the CAF engagement in Afghanistan who never saw fit to recommend any action for a VC, are now saying that their work was shoddy, and should be revisited?



There are two factors I would consider in these cases.

First, given the personalities involved in the nomination process (as alluded to, above) were any of these members actually upgraded from SMV to VC nominations at the time? if not, why?  Both the CDS's mentioned in the article were huge on both recognizing the soldiers and creating bling.  Unless more supporting facts came to light or witnesses were to come forward to reinforce the nominations, they would likely stand as is.

Second, The clock has run out.  However, our leaders could follow the US lead in the example of SFC Alwyn Cashe.  SFC Cashe was posthumously awarded the Silver Star and the US Senate passed a Bill in September waiving the five-year time limit for Medal of Honor awards.


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## The Bread Guy (12 Nov 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, to recap: two CDSes who were responsible for H&R during the CAF engagement in Afghanistan who never saw fit to recommend any action for a VC, are now saying that their work was shoddy, and should be revisited?


So young to be so cynical ...  ;D


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## tomahawk6 (12 Nov 2020)

I can see how military leaders don't want to devalue the VC, its the same in the US. Personally I think every soldier killed in action deserves their nation's highest honor. The honor won't BRING BACK their loved one but it signifies to the nation that the loss was a sacrifice of the life of the fallen and a loss for a family. So award the nation's highest honor to those that have sacrificed their all, cannot their country reciprocate ?


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## dimsum (12 Nov 2020)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I can see how military leaders don't want to devalue the VC, its the same in the US. Personally I think every soldier killed in action deserves their nation's highest honor. The honor won't BRING BACK their loved one but it signifies to the nation that the loss was a sacrifice of the life of the fallen and a loss for a family. So award the nation's highest honor to those that have sacrificed their all, cannot their country reciprocate ?



The UK and Australia have awarded VCs to living members in the last 20 years.  While most of the actions that get awarded VCs end up being posthumous, that's not a requirement.


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## brihard (12 Nov 2020)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I can see how military leaders don't want to devalue the VC, its the same in the US. Personally I think every soldier killed in action deserves their nation's highest honor. The honor won't BRING BACK their loved one but it signifies to the nation that the loss was a sacrifice of the life of the fallen and a loss for a family. So award the nation's highest honor to those that have sacrificed their all, cannot their country reciprocate ?



We have a medal for being wounded/killed in action. The VC is very specifically for valour. That's not to take away form the sacrifice of those we've lost, but there's a distinction between having the awful luck of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and those who specifically act in a valorous manner in the face of a known, immediate danger.

Canada has a federal honours system- civilian or military, nearly all medals (minus a few issues by provinces or municipalities) are under one common system with a common order of precedence. The Victoria Cross is at the absolute top of the order of precedence for the Canadian honours system.


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## MilEME09 (12 Nov 2020)

Brihard said:
			
		

> We have a medal for being wounded/killed in action. The VC is very specifically for valour. That's not to take away form the sacrifice of those we've lost, but there's a distinction between having the awful luck of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and those who specifically act in a valorous manner in the face of a known, immediate danger.
> 
> Canada has a federal honours system- civilian or military, nearly all medals (minus a few issues by provinces or municipalities) are under one common system with a common order of precedence. The Victoria Cross is at the absolute top of the order of precedence for the Canadian honours system.



Now I have heard atleast in the UK, VC recipients are to be saluted, due to this you will never see someone with a VC on parade for obvious kinks in the traditional format of a parade.

Anyone know if that is the case here?


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## Michael OLeary (13 Nov 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Now I have heard atleast in the UK, VC recipients are to be saluted, due to this you will never see someone with a VC on parade for obvious kinks in the traditional format of a parade.
> 
> Anyone know if that is the case here?



https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/medals/victoria-cross



> There is a widespread though erroneous belief that it is statutory for "all ranks to salute a bearer of the Victoria Cross".
> 
> There is no official requirement that appears in the official Warrant of the VC, nor in Queen's Regulations and Orders, but tradition dictates that this occurs and as such the Chiefs of Staff will salute a Private awarded a VC or GC.



https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1944-01-25/debates/4b8d9a02-53a7-45b1-afaa-0395ff915a5c/VcRecipients(Salutes)



> Vc Recipients (Salutes)
> 
> 25 January 1944   Volume 396
> 
> ...


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## dimsum (13 Nov 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Now I have heard atleast in the UK, VC recipients are to be saluted, due to this you will never see someone with a VC on parade for obvious kinks in the traditional format of a parade.
> 
> Anyone know if that is the case here?



Maybe?  But one assumes that the person is presented the VC on a parade of some sort, so they'd be on parade...


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## Edward Campbell (13 Nov 2020)

Just to note that Canada did not award any VCs in Korea, either. Apparently, as in Afghanistan, there were no individual actions of the "most conspicuous bravery or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour, self-sacrifice or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy." 

Only 16 were awarded in the Second World War, although Canada had about 1 million men and women in uniform, while 73 were awarded in the First World War when we had a much smaller force and five were awarded during the South African War which might be considered comparable to Afghanistan in many respects ~ a small_ish_ special force operating, far away, as part of an allied force.  :dunno:


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## daftandbarmy (13 Nov 2020)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Just to note that Canada did not award any VCs in Korea, either. Apparently, as in Afghanistan, there were no individual actions of the "most conspicuous bravery or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour, self-sacrifice or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy."
> 
> Only 16 were awarded in the Second World War, although Canada had about 1 million men and women in uniform, while 73 were awarded in the First World War when we had a much smaller force and five were awarded during the South African War which might be considered comparable to Afghanistan in many respects ~ a small_ish_ special force operating, far away, as part of an allied force.  :dunno:



My Dad, a WW2 vet, was fond of noting that for a Canadian to be awarded a VC once 'they would have to earn it twice'.


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## Walt (13 Nov 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> My Dad, a WW2 vet, was fond of noting that for a Canadian to be awarded a VC once 'they would have to earn it twice'.



Sadly, we apparently now have to _*think twice*_ about *once* awarding a VC to a Canadian. Shameful.


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## GK .Dundas (13 Nov 2020)

Walt said:
			
		

> Sadly, we apparently now have to _*think twice*_ about *once* awarding a VC to a Canadian. Shameful.


A few years ago I came to the conclusion that if a Canadian soldier managed to quite literally save the World. 
If the soldier was really,really lucky,the chain of command might just be willing to settle for probation and maybe community service.


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## PuckChaser (14 Nov 2020)

It's absolutely appalling that we did not have a VC awarded for Afghanistan. The cynic in me says it was political untenable that we award a Victoria Cross to downplay the conflict as "not a war". A quick search of the folks who earned a SMV, these citations popped out at me:

https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/142-69
https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/142-13
https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/142-4

Easily one of those 3 individuals could have won a Victoria Cross and no one would have batted an eye, truly extraordinary.


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## MJP (14 Nov 2020)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> It's absolutely appalling that we did not have a VC awarded for Afghanistan. The cynic in me says it was political untenable that we award a Victoria Cross to downplay the conflict as "not a war". A quick search of the folks who earned a SMV, these citations popped out at me:
> 
> https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/142-69
> https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/142-13
> ...


I tried not to get sucked into the internal debate one's actions vs another and if it was worthy of a VC or not as I find them personally distasteful. That said I was present for one of those actions* and know there are member(s) of esteemed forum that participated post tour honour committees to ensure all pers were covered.  

Knowing the details beyond a 80 word citation in one situation makes me personally believe we got it right the first time. I could be wrong but if it was truly deserved then why didn't those advocating for it now make it happen considering they had the power to make it so then?

*I am bias and realize that by the very fact that I focused on my own actions and those of the folks I was in charge of, not at times the larger battle. If anything the fact my (and others) observations at the time were slightly different affirm that eye witnesses are not super reliable and subject to any number of well known issues that can affect their recollection.


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## Old Sweat (14 Nov 2020)

A few observations after following this thread. First, to be awarded a decoration, one has to be recommended. Trite, but true. In my young officer days a long time ago, a common belief was that Canadian senior officers tended to not submit many recommendations for awards, citing as their reason that the soldier was just doing his job. That did not mean that, at the same time, they refused to accept any decorations they were awarded.

A friend, a professional military historian with a PhD, once told me that the criteria established for the Canadian VC were so stringent that it was unlikely that anyone could meet them.

And as for previous wars, there was one recommendation from Korea that I am aware of, to a stretcher bearer in, I think, 2 RCR, but it was downgraded somewhere in the chain above brigade. I once did a study of the Boer War VCs. About half of the awards were for rescuing a comrade under fire. This would include the VC to Sergeant Richardson of the Strathconas. Last, Donald Graves's history of the South Alberta Regiment recounts how the CO read the citations for the first VCs in NWE and realized that Major David Currie's action at St-Lambert-sur-Dives was at least as noteworthy. However, he had only been recommended for a DSO. The CO talked to the Divisional Commander, who was able to intercept the recommendation before it was forwarded further, and supported its upgrade to a VC. See my first comment about the requirement to be recommended first before one could receive an award.*

* Re South Africa, the 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry was the only Canadian unit to not have a non-commissioned member receive a gallantry award, either a VC or a DCM. The Queen's Scarf to Private Thompson does nor really count as it was not a gazetted decoration. Contrary to popular lore, Thompson had not been recommended for a VC once, let alone twice. After the war, a recommendation for a VC for him was submitted, but the deadline for recommendations had passed.


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## mariomike (14 Nov 2020)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> A few observations after following this thread. First, to be awarded a decoration, one has to be recommended. Trite, but true. In my young officer days a long time ago, a common belief was that Canadian senior officers tended to not submit many recommendations for awards, citing as their reason that the soldier was just doing his job. That did not mean that, at the same time, they refused to accept any decorations they were awarded.
> 
> A friend, a professional military historian with a PhD, once told me that the criteria established for the Canadian VC were so stringent that it was unlikely that anyone could meet them.



Reminds me of something I read,



> Bennett's insistence that there should be no stars or professional heroes among his officers. "There will be no living VCs in 8 Group."
> 
> Air Vice Marshal Donald Clifford Tyndall Bennett, CB, CBE, DSO
> https://www.maxhastings.com/products/bomber-command/


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## PuckChaser (14 Nov 2020)

MJP said:
			
		

> Knowing the details beyond a 80 word citation in one situation makes me personally believe we got it right the first time. I could be wrong but if it was truly deserved then why didn't those advocating for it now make it happen considering they had the power to make it so then?



Yep, an 80 word citation doesn't do a multi-page nomination document justice, and there's always going to be questions about the process. These questions are always going to come up, as the entire process is clouded in secrecy (which is needed as first reports from a battle area can be overblown or under stated) and that the criteria is sufficiently vague to leave a lot of room for interpretation. It would be interesting to note how many, if any, CAF members were nominated for a Victoria Cross or if at the National H&A boards any SMV nominations were discussed for upgrading to VC. The knowledge that the honest discussion took place to consider a VC winner would reduce a lot of the second guessing years later.


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## MJP (14 Nov 2020)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Yep, an 80 word citation doesn't do a multi-page nomination document justice, and there's always going to be questions about the process. These questions are always going to come up, as the entire process is clouded in secrecy (which is needed as first reports from a battle area can be overblown or under stated) and that the criteria is sufficiently vague to leave a lot of room for interpretation. It would be interesting to note how many, if any, CAF members were nominated for a Victoria Cross or if at the National H&A boards any SMV nominations were discussed for upgrading to VC. The knowledge that the honest discussion took place to consider a VC winner would reduce a lot of the second guessing years later.



I have seen a unit board that held a cross section of the unit's ranks to alleviate the worries on secrecy, it was at the time very well received. Having seen a few HHQ discussions they always seemed very well done with due consideration given to files. As much as we malign HHQs the people in key posns are generally pretty switched on so I have to believe* that due diligence is taken there as well.


*famous last words?


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## PuckChaser (14 Nov 2020)

MJP said:
			
		

> I have seen a unit board that held a cross section of the unit's ranks to alleviate the worries on secrecy, it was at the time very well received.



I can see why that would be well received. Those young, motivated Cpls and MCpls witnessing the process in a transparent manner well help them be effective WOs and MWOs to advocate for proper awards for their troops.


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## Blackadder1916 (14 Nov 2020)

The CDS twins may have been heartened in the campaign by the recent Australian retrospective awarding (posthumously) of the VC to a RAN sailor for action in WW2.  The Australians instituted a very open honours review process, highlighted by a 2013 inquiry that reviewed the cases of 13 members of the Australian Forces as to whether retrospective award of the VC was justified.  At the time, none were recommended, but it didn't stop there.  Eventually, one of that 13 was awarded the VC.  There was of course some political involvement.  

https://www.pm.gov.au/media/ordinary-seaman-edward-teddysheean


> The Australian Government recognises the extraordinary service, dedication and sacrifice of Ordinary Seaman Edward 'Teddy' Sheean and the Prime Minister has written to the Governor-General requesting he seek the approval of Her Majesty The Queen to posthumously award a Victoria Cross for Australia.
> 
> Our view and policy has always been that consideration of the awarding of a retrospective Victoria Cross would only occur in light of compelling new evidence or if there was evidence of significant maladministration.
> 
> ...



The reports generated by the process can make interesting reading and may give some sense of behind the scene machinations.

The 2013 Inquiry   The Report of the Inquiry into Unresolved Recognition for Past Acts of Naval and Military Gallantry and Valour

The 2019 Tribunal that recommended the award  

Historic Victoria Cross Report of the Expert Panel  


There have been other submissions to the Defence Honours and Awards Appeal Tribunal to review other cases re the VC.  In most of those cases the applications have been made by individuals other than the person recommended, but in one instance the submission was made by the (former) soldier himself.   Before commenting derisively about a possible Walting Matilda, read the report.  https://defence-honours-tribunal.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Reid-Decision.pdf


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## Underway (15 Nov 2020)

What a lot of people haven't seen is that quite often recommendations for medals get upgraded.  A Medal of Bravery to a Star of Courage for example.  The people who evaluate these awards are not gatekeepers.  They apply the criteria and give what awards they belive are merited.  

If there is an issue with VC's not being awarded one suspects that the criteria are possibly too stringent. Or perhaps our soldiers are to smart to get themselves into situations where a VC would be awarded.  I'm sure I heard in an interview with Smokey Smith, VC. "If I was smart I never woulda been where I was to get the VC in the first place."


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## Haggis (16 Nov 2020)

Underway said:
			
		

> If there is an issue with VC's not being awarded one suspects that the criteria are possibly too stringent.



I would rather that than the opposite where a valour decoration award is later called into question.


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## daftandbarmy (16 Nov 2020)

Underway said:
			
		

> What a lot of people haven't seen is that quite often recommendations for medals get upgraded.  A Medal of Bravery to a Star of Courage for example.  The people who evaluate these awards are not gatekeepers.  They apply the criteria and give what awards they belive are merited.
> 
> If there is an issue with VC's not being awarded one suspects that the criteria are possibly too stringent. Or perhaps our soldiers are to smart to get themselves into situations where a VC would be awarded.  I'm sure I heard in an interview with Smokey Smith, VC. "If I was smart I never woulda been where I was to get the VC in the first place."



My Dad knew Smokey Smith pretty well, they worked in the same part of downtown Vancouver, and we bumped into him from time to time. 

He once mentioned that that the 'real heroes', who deserved most of the decorations for valour, were KIA.


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## medicineman (16 Nov 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> My Dad knew Smokey Smith pretty well, they worked in the same part of downtown Vancouver, and we bumped into him from time to time.
> 
> He once mentioned that that the 'real heroes', who deserved most of the decorations for valour, were KIA.



I remember reading somewhere that the joke going around was that Smokey Smith actually got the VC for engaging a tank with a PIAT from the standing position as opposed to what the remainder of the citation indicated...

MM


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## Eaglelord17 (16 Nov 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> I would rather that than the opposite where a valour decoration award is later called into question.



That isn't a matter of award criteria being too low or too high, rather fraudulently representing someone's situation. That could happen here if the CoC chose not to act ethically.


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## mariomike (23 Nov 2020)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> My Dad knew Smokey Smith pretty well, they worked in the same part of downtown Vancouver, and we bumped into him from time to time.
> 
> He once mentioned that that the 'real heroes', who deserved most of the decorations for valour, were KIA.



Audie Murphy said the same thing.

I saw on TV a few years ago an MoH recipient from the war ( apparently still living! ) also say that. 

He was a flame-thrower specialist, and a real artist with it on Iwo Jima.


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## Furniture (25 Nov 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> I would rather that than the opposite where a valour decoration award is later called into question.



What value is there in a decoration that is impossible to attain? 

Perhaps Canada has gone too far down the path of keeping medals for valour and meritorious service rare.


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## daftandbarmy (25 Nov 2020)

Furniture said:
			
		

> What value is there in a decoration that is impossible to attain?
> 
> Perhaps Canada has gone too far down the path of keeping medals for valour and meritorious service rare.



In Canada it's important not too look too special or important, so we try to make sure that everyone feels embarrassed about that enough that they toe the line  

Meanwhile, the US is the largest economy on earth largely because they are kind of the opposite. 

I was talking to a guy who is in business down there and he said something like 'they kill you with encouragement, and it works like crazy.'


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## Ralph (25 Nov 2020)

Americans get a ribbon for leaving CONUS the first time too.


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## Towards_the_gap (25 Nov 2020)

Furniture said:
			
		

> What value is there in a decoration that is impossible to attain?
> 
> Perhaps Canada has gone too far down the path of keeping medals for valour and *meritorious service *rare.



I've seen MSM's handed out for people literally doing their job. In fact you can pretty much say it's a check in the box for going past colonel (and AF/Navy equiv). Valour decorations - yes indeed, they are rare. Not so with the meritorious dec's.


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## Furniture (25 Nov 2020)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I've seen MSM's handed out for people literally doing their job. In fact you can pretty much say it's a check in the box for going past colonel (and AF/Navy equiv). Valour decorations - yes indeed, they are rare. Not so with the meritorious dec's.



I almost added a caveat about COs and deployments, but held back due to mixed company. 

Our system for awarding meritorious awards is a skewed, while I agree that clerks are important, go back and look at the number of clerks vs other support trades that received MSM in Afghanistan.... From my recollection there were a lot of HQ folks getting medals, while the shop floors and sentry towers/crew hatches were underrepresented.


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## Halifax Tar (26 Nov 2020)

Furniture said:
			
		

> I almost added a caveat about COs and deployments, but held back due to mixed company. [/u
> 
> Our system for awarding meritorious awards is a skewed, while I agree that clerks are important, go back and look at the number of clerks vs other support trades that received MSM in Afghanistan.... From my recollection there were a lot of HQ folks getting medals, while the shop floors and sentry towers/crew hatches were underrepresented.




Its funny you bring that up.  While at the KLE meeting at CJOC before our deployment on FRE the number and distribution of awards was already allotted.

I was saddened to see that's actually true, and it really makes those awards worthless now, in my eyes at least.


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## Haggis (26 Nov 2020)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I've seen MSM's handed out for people literally doing their job.



In 1991 I was nominated for an MSM.  Yes, I know the process is supposed to be confidential. I found out about it from a Bde HQ staff officer who told me (at a mixed mess function) that he'd stopped my nomination at the Bde level because "we don't reward people for doing their jobs".  It's good to see that things have changed (#sarcasm).


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## Infanteer (26 Nov 2020)

The "don't give someone an award for doing their job" line is BS, and we need to move away from that point of view.  There is nothing wrong with recognizing a job well done and we need not be overly stoic about recognition.

Using this line of reasoning, we could say that Smokey Smith was just doing his job when he took out German AFVs at the Savio River Bridgehead.


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## brihard (26 Nov 2020)

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing someone for “Just doing your job (exceptionally well)”. Some times “just doing your job” can meet the MSM’s criteria of “ a military deed or activity performed in a highly professional manner, according to a very high standard that brings benefit or honour to the Canadian Forces”. If your job matters enough, just doing it very well could absolutely hit that. Otherwise why would so many of the NCMs who are awarded it be SAR Techs or EOD?


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## Towards_the_gap (26 Nov 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> In 1991 I was nominated for an MSM.  Yes, I know the process is supposed to be confidential. I found out about it from a Bde HQ staff officer who told me (at a mixed mess function) said he'd stopped my nomination at the Bde level because "we don't reward people for doing their jobs".  It's good to see that things have changed (#sarcasm).




Admission - My troop commander, at the end of tour, gave me his write up nominating me for the MSM. 7 pages. He gave it to me because he knew it wasn't going to go anywhere because, to quote an unnamed person 'He has already been recognised'.

The recognition? CEFCOM Sergeant Major's Coin. Alongside a guy who ran the KAF ball hockey league, and someone else who did a lot of PT. 

So forgive me if I'm a bit jaded.


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## PPCLI Guy (26 Nov 2020)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> The "don't give someone an award for doing their job" line is BS, and we need to move away from that point of view.  There is nothing wrong with recognizing a job well done and we need not be overly stoic about recognition.
> 
> Using this line of reasoning, we could say that Smokey Smith was just doing his job when he took out German AFVs at the Savio River Bridgehead.



Absolutely.


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## The Bread Guy (10 Sep 2021)

Bumped with the latest MSM bit ....


> Almost 15 years ago, a bleeding and badly wounded Pte. Jess Randall Larochelle crawled back to his wrecked machine gun post in his smashed observation post in Pashmul, Afghanistan.
> 
> His unit — a part of Charles Company of the Royal Canadian Regiment — was about to be overrun by Taliban fighters who had peppered the outpost with rocket-propelled grenades.
> 
> ...


From the awards info-machine, 2007 ....


> Private Jess Randall *Larochelle*, S.M.V.
> Petawawa, Ontario
> Star of Military Valour​
> On October 14, 2006, Private Larochelle of the 1st Royal Canadian Regiment Battle Group was manning an observation post when it was destroyed by an enemy rocket in Pashmul, Afghanistan. Although he was alone, severely injured, and under sustained enemy fire in his exposed position at the ruined observation post, he aggressively provided covering fire over the otherwise undefended flank of his company’s position. While two personnel were killed and three others were wounded in the initial attack, Private Larochelle’s heroic actions permitted the remainder of the company to defend their battle positions and to successfully fend off the sustained attack of more than 20 insurgents. His valiant conduct saved the lives of many members of his company.


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## Remius (10 Sep 2021)

I hope we see more of this.


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## Infanteer (10 Sep 2021)

Read the Larochelle citation and go back and read a WWII VC citation.  No question he should have been awarded the VC.


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## The Bread Guy (10 Sep 2021)

Infanteer said:


> Read the Larochelle citation and go back and read a WWII VC citation.  No question he should have been awarded the VC.


Smokey Smith, Paul Triquet, David Currie or John Osborn, to pick only a few army ones.


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## daftandbarmy (10 Sep 2021)

Infanteer said:


> Read the Larochelle citation and go back and read a WWII VC citation.  No question he should have been awarded the VC.



Tangentially, this is one of my favourites earned 5 or 6 days after the end of the war in Europe:


On 12/13 May 1945 at Taungdaw, Burma [now Myanmar], Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung was manning the most forward post of his platoon which bore the brunt of an attack by at least 200 of the Japanese enemy. He hurled back two hand grenades which had fallen on his trench, but the third exploded in his right hand after he attempted to throw it back, blowing off his fingers, shattering his arm and severely wounding him in the face, body and right leg. H*is two comrades were also badly wounded but the rifleman, now alone and disregarding his wounds, loaded and fired his rifle with his left hand for four hours (all while he screamed "Come and fight a Gurkha!")*, calmly waiting for each attack which he met with fire at point blank range.

His citation in the London Gazette ends with...



> ...Of the 87 enemy dead counted in the immediate vicinity of the Company locality, 31 lay in front of this Rifleman's section, the key to the whole position. Had the enemy succeeded in over-running and occupying Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung's trench, the whole of the reverse slope position would have been completely dominated and turned.
> This Rifleman, by his magnificent example, so inspired his comrades to resist the enemy to the last, that, although surrounded and cut off for three days and two nights, they held and smashed every attack.
> His outstanding gallantry and extreme devotion to duty, in the face of almost overwhelming odds, were the main factors in the defeat of the enemy.[1]


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## The Bread Guy (16 Sep 2021)

More of the latest on the push for an AFG VC, shared for purposes of research, private study or education under the Fair Dealing provisions of Canada's _Copyright Act_.


> The Afghanistan Veterans Association of Canada is petitioning the Governor-General of Canada to award the Victoria Cross to a Nipissing, Ont. man.
> 
> While no Canadian has won the highest and most prestigious award of the British honours system in 77 years, advocates say Pvt. Jess Larochelle deserves the distinction.
> 
> ...


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## Infanteer (17 Sep 2021)

Sorry to hear Larochelle is not doing well....

And the article is wrong - Smith was not the last Canadian VC, he was the last surviving Canadian VC winner.  Robert Hampton Gray was the last Canadian to be awarded a VC (with another being awarded after the war to an aviator for actions in 1944).









						Robert Hampton Gray - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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