# LANGUAGE TRAINING for DEPLOYMENTS



## -rb (17 Sep 2004)

Hi all,
I am currently enrolled in an Arabic course (civi Uni) and am curious to hear from any others who have taken language training through the military. I know in the US forces there is currently a high demand for Arabic speaking individuals, can the same be said for the Canadian Army?

Also, what MOC's would make use of such language? I know CommRsrch has the opportunity for various language training as well as Int...any other trades that would be suited for this? 

As an aside, i was hoping to find Farsi/Pushtu/Dari courses first but had no luck through local PSE institutions...would love to hear from anyone who has taken these courses as well through the military or otherwise.

cheers 

(fyi my status - handing in my app next week going for Reg Force 215, 031, 291 in that order)


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## ackland (17 Sep 2004)

You could be used by any trade. A buddy of mine went on tour to bosnia and he is of serbian decent. Speaks Fleunt serbian and was sent over as grizzly gunner. He was in the officers call sing so he could kinda spie on the interpreters and make sure they weren't bs ing them. They changed his name to smith. to hide is identity.


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## from darkness lite (17 Sep 2004)

TR is correct, language skills would benefit any trade.  From an Int point of view, your language skills could definitely be used by 291ers, and in Int, but you can't get into Int as an NCM right off the street.  Get your Cpl's first.  Also keep your eyes open for CANFORGEN's regarding HUMINT tours as a team member.  Although language skills are not a necessity, they are a definite asset.  However be warned, most fail their HUMINT selection course, not everyone is cut out for that line of work.  (Sorry, I won't give out any details on that subject)


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## Armymedic (17 Sep 2004)

Any trade, but as you assumed correctly certain ones would have more demand for you to use such language.

Most of the people I know learned their language at home and not thru school (Arabic, Spanish, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croat, German).

I am not sure in your case.

But I do believe there is somewhere where they keep a data base on non official language speakers for overseas missions, (Something I heard, but cannot confirm) 

I know they test for other languages in Hull.


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## -rb (17 Sep 2004)

thnks for the replies,
as far as continued training once i get in as a fresh NCM, would a 291 be more likely to recieve additional training though as opposed to other MOC's ? What are the chances of a private getting in to some Language courses while *on base * (even in off duty hours as i'm sure primary MOC training would take priority) 

Reason i ask, although currently employed in IT i've looked to the army to escape the desk job and get in to a field job that has a somewhat physical aspect to it...i'm afraid that trying to go a 291 route i'd be sitting at a monitoring station with some headphones in a windowless office, not what i'm really looking to get in the army for although i truly appreciate the valuable service these members provide.

regardless, i'm going to continue my training whether it be on my own time or on the job and see where it takes me!
cheers.


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## from darkness lite (17 Sep 2004)

Yukon:

291ers get language training as required, which is often compared to others.  A Pte in other MOCs can take all the language training he wants on his own time (with some education compensation I do believe, don't quote me on that), although in certain circumstances you can get language training on DND time (mainly french though).

Not all 291ers are buried deep in some windowless office.  The EW Squadron in Kingston is a field force that is in high demand so if posted there as a 291er you'd get lots of field time/deployments.


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## -rb (17 Sep 2004)

fdl,
familiar with the EW Squadron, just not sure of the overall status of various unit's within the army, overmanned/undermanned etc. I'll hopefully find out more when i can get in for my interview as far as the status of my listed trades. 

As far as language training though, do many bases offer these courses (evenings/weekends etc.) or do people tend to do it on their own time at home as Armymedic suggested. Further to that, would any current Regs please explain a little bit about off-duty course offerings ...ex. if not assigned by DND, can we pay to enroll, are some civi courses 'hosted' on base and pay as you go etc??

Doing arabic myself is a route i thought of going but would prefer to be in a class type of environment whether it be formal or informal to help speed things up. 

Also, for anyone interested here's a link to quite a few US Army Language Survival Kits that i've been going through... http://oef.monterey.army.mil/downloadlsk.html

thnks.


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## Spooks (17 Sep 2004)

I'm a Pte 031 in Edmonton right now. I am curently brushing my Russian up right now. Took it from grade 2 - grade 12 but hadn't touched it for a few years. I have enough time to go off base and take night courses but I lack my own mode of transportation to get to the schools. I haven't explored about what the military has to offer on during-work language training, though I am sure that French is taught to Officer Cadets during the summers. So as my supplement, I use those 'teach yourself a language' programs found at most software stores to keep up my vocab.

My four rubles
-Spooks


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## winchable (17 Sep 2004)

I spoke Arabic fluently as a child, still speak it..relatively easily(BARELY) it was my grammar and sentence structure and spelling.
 So I'm in Arabic right now, also through civi U. Beautiful language, despite what people think it's not simply a matter of spitting at someone. It's poetic and pretty to look at too..iIt'd be wonderful if it was as common and popular as english as it's also a great deal easier to learn.

I'd encourage everyone to have a glance at it as an option. Mostly every piece of ancient greek, math philosophy etc. had to be translated into Arabic during the shakey years in the midevial era so the most authentic link we have to everything we've come to learn about Philosophy, history, mathematics and science had to be translated from Arabic at some point!

Good luck with your studies.


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## Spooks (20 Jan 2005)

Is there any courses available CF-wide for language training outside of French? I'm looking to polish up my russian and expand maybe 2-5 more eventually (eventually is defined as by the time I retire). IMO, IntOps would have something for that since foreign languages is a bonus to get into that trade (I can never find enough info about this trade) so I'll assume that the CF trains in other languages. Maybe my assumption is wrong and I'll have to goto civy-side night classes, but if I am correct I'd like to know anything that's out there.

-Spooks


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## Pencil Tech (21 Jan 2005)

Canadian Forces Language School in Ottawa deal with testing, etc, of languages other than French. I'm at home now and don't have DIN access but do a search for them when you get a chance or I notice you're with 3VP so give me a call at local 5712 and I'll send you some documentation that might help.


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## Spooks (21 Jan 2005)

I'll try to give you a call in between classes next week. Right now I'm on the PCF cycle. Anyone I need to ask for if it's a Gen.Use phone?

-Spooks


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## Fusaki (21 Jan 2005)

Spooks, this might be something you're interested in.

It's not official training, by any means. But it's still usefull for personal study.

http://oef.monterey.army.mil/downloadlsk.html


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## Spooks (21 Jan 2005)

Sweet Mary!
Thanks a million. Still want to take official on-paper stuff. I can study on my own now though.

-Spooks


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## Pencil Tech (22 Jan 2005)

Spooks, I sent you an email.


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## Fruss (23 Jan 2005)

I don't know if you noticed, but there's no french on this web site...  that's weird..  it's one of the "big" language..

Frank


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## Pencil Tech (23 Jan 2005)

Frank, there is a French forum on this website.


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## Fruss (23 Jan 2005)

Pencil Tech: I meant on the link provided by Ghostwalk, it's for the US Army, there's a lot of translation, but nothing in french..

Anyhow, it was just an observation...

cheers

Frank


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## kas (9 Apr 2005)

Back to the original question, since it's one I'm keenly interested in as well and self study will only get a person so far.

Does the Canadian Forces have any language training programs other than French? I've been drooling over the American Defense Language Institute ever since I found out about it, but it's probably too much to hope that we'd have something comparable up here.

I was also wondering which trade(s) might be most suitable for a person with an extensive background and interest in foreign languages?

Thanks. =)


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## bgc_fan (9 Apr 2005)

kas said:
			
		

> Back to the original question, since it's one I'm keenly interested in as well and self study will only get a person so far.
> 
> Does the Canadian Forces have any language training programs other than French? I've been drooling over the American Defense Language Institute ever since I found out about it, but it's probably too much to hope that we'd have something comparable up here.



Well, there is the language school in Asticou near Ottawa/Hull which involves foreign languages. But my understanding is that the training programs there are mainly (only?) for those who are going to be assigned to embassy-type positions. Other than that, there's the French/English training.


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## Armymedic (31 Dec 2005)

Anyone who has worked overseas with LEP translators understands this.
CF Linguists...now that would be nice.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=02f93764-0bf5-45d2-8c6f-1f537826b40d&k=98059&p=1

Hiring locals puts Canadian army at risk
  
Murray Brewster 
Canadian Press 
Saturday, December 31, 2005

OTTAWA -- As Canadian troops prepare to head back en masse to Afghanistan in the weeks to come, documents obtained The Canadian Press suggest the practice of hiring local translators to help the Canadian military poses a security risk. 

"The use of local interpreters as language and cultural advisers is an operational security concern," said a briefing note prepared for the military's head of intelligence and obtained under access-to-information laws. 

"Locally engaged personnel do not have a Canadian security clearance or any other credible police or security check when they assist in high-level political discussions, delicate local discussions, or support-sensitive activities such as (intelligence) and counter-intelligence teams abroad." 

The military has been using local translators for years. While the army found the practice important enough to flag, there is no indication that the use of locals has led to a leak of military secrets or intelligence. 

The February briefing note - which expressed concern about operations in both Bosnia and Afghanistan - lays the blame for the situation squarely at the Defence Department's door, saying it has failed to encourage people to take up a military career in languages. 

"The recruiting of Canadian Forces members as language and cultural advisers remains ad hoc, inefficient, problematic, time intensive for national staff and decentralized," said the document. 

Indeed, as troops head back to one of the world's most dangerous hotspots, even Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defence staff, concedes that the military is falling down in attracting ethnic Canadians. 

Hillier said in a recent interview with The Canadian Press that he's confident the military will be able to hit its overall recruiting target of 8,000 regular and reserve members over the next five years, as set out in last February's budget. But he has one qualification. 

"Right now, we're meeting all of our goals," he said. "But we're not getting the piece of the demographic from Canada that I'd like to have to change our Forces." 

Currently there are about 1,000 soldiers in Afghanistan who are helping to move the Canadian command post from relatively quiet Kabul to the more hostile, insurgent-infested southern region near Kandahar. 

March, the army will have more than 2,000 combat troops on the ground for a dangerous two-pronged mission that is expected to produce casualties - something Defence Minister Bill Graham has been quietly trying to steel the public to anticipate. 

The dangerous mission comes fresh on the heels of a year spent celebrating the achievements of battles long past and following a cash infusion from Ottawa that will mean much-needed new equipment for the military. 

The Year of the Veteran feted the victorious troops that swept across Europe 60 years ago and served as a reminder to a new generation of Canadians that a career in the military can be a noble one. 

But a generation ago, the Canadians who helped defeat Nazi Germany and Japan were drawn from cities and farms of what was then a mostly white, middle-class English and francophone country, and recruiting wasn't an arduous process. 

Today, Canada is a multicultural country, its closest ally is mired in a brutal, unpopular war in Iraq and a booming economy is forcing Ottawa to compete, cajole and outright buy - through signing bonuses and incentives - the raw talent it needs to fill the ranks. 

The inability of recruiters to tap into Canada's growing ethnic population in large numbers, especially those from the world's trouble spots, is becoming a source of unease in overseas deployments. 

Without properly qualified advisers who are well-versed in local dialects and customs, commanders on the ground are at the mercy of civilians hired on the spot in some of the most treacherous places on Earth. 

Hillier says there will be enough Canadian-trained language advisers to fill key roles at headquarters and some combat units in Afghanistan this winter, but 70 per cent of translators will still be local hires. 

And a defence analyst said the military can't be blamed entirely for the poor turnout from ethnic communities. "Some first-generation immigrants come from countries where there's a deep suspicion of the military and police," said David Rudd, president of the Canadian Institute for Strategic Studies. 

He pointed out that statistics have shown that those in minority communities who do decide to serve usually pick reserve units over the regular forces. 

"Some people are very family-oriented and reserve units are in their communities, whereas regular army bases are often in remote or far-away parts of the country," said Rudd. "And then there's the whole notion of deploying overseas, which can be unattractive." 

Separate from diversity, some critics have suggested the military's overall recruiting target of 8,000 regular and reserve forces in five years may be too ambitious, especially given the increasing attrition rate in the aging military. 

Currently there are about 52,700 trained personnel who can be deployed around the world. Defence planners aim to have enough troops to indefinitely maintain at least two full-scale overseas operations. 

As a reconstruction team goes about the business of trying to rebuild infrastructure and civilian agencies in Kandahar, Canadian patrols will attempt to flush out the remnants of Taliban resistance in the mountainous areas around the city. 

To prepare for the hazards of the mission, the Defence Department is spending $234 million on new equipment, everything from light armoured vehicles and reinforced protection for existing ones to new radios and satellite phones. 

- 

Some facts and figures about a career in the military, according to the National Defence Department: 

-Base starting salary for Officer Cadet: $1,328 a month. After three years: $1,412 

-Base starting salary for a Major: $7,110. After seven years: $7,974. 

-Vacation benefits: 20 working days of vacation in each of the first five years of service and 25 working days per year after that. 

-Medical benefits include home care, rehabilitation and long-term care. 

-Dental care includes major orthodontic and surgical services. 

-Sports facilities on bases: fastball, hockey, broomball. Some bases have pools, gymnasium, sports fields, skating rinks, curling clubs, ski hills and golf courses. 

-Second-language training provided not only to Forces members but also to their spouses.


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## George Wallace (31 Dec 2005)

An old problem, and one we have dealt with in the past.  Several Interpreters were caught in Bosnia, not exactly doing their job and translating truthfully.  They were fired on the spot.

Again, though this Paper Chain has very sloppy Reporters.  Anyone find statements like this rather odd: "Some bases have pools, gymnasium, sports fields, skating rinks, curling clubs, ski hills and golf courses"?  I have yet to be on a Base that did not have a Pool, Gym, Skating Rink, Sports Fields, etc.  Ski hills are a rarity, but on a whole this is a very poor statement to be made in a major newspaper chain.  I only pointed out this very outstanding statement over all the rest that are also just as bad, such as the Base Starting Salaries, which although correct, are not qualified to state why and OCdt will still be an OCdt after 4 years....think RMC.  And a 7 year Major?  No mention of what a 4 year Pte makes?  Medical and Dental benefits mentioned, but in a very selective way.

Of course the last statement, ties into the main just of the story: "Second-language training provided not only to Forces members but also to their spouses."  A statement made, with no justification and very deceptive in its lack of explanation or qualifications as to how it is implemented. 


Oh well....such is the life of the newpaper reporter.


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## enfield (31 Dec 2005)

Perhaps the military should re-think the policy of forcing all officers to learn Quebecois French, and offer other languages? 

However, beyond teaching a few mjaor languages - Spanish, Arabic, French - I fail to see how the CF could be expected to prepare for possible missions. Too many countries, cultures, languages, dialects, etc. 

Perhaps hiring Canadian civilians as linguist contractors? I recall Italian Carabieneri in Bosnia who had an Italian civilian of Yugoslavian extraction as their interpreter. (and she was freaking hot....)


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## winchable (31 Dec 2005)

I've seen other militaries (notably the British forces) offering linguist as an occupation (under the intelligence corp in the UK).
There are a number of people, not neccessarily members of non-european ethnic groups, who are naturals when it comes to learning foreign languages and they can't be such a small group of unreachable people that they the CF is unable to recruit them at all.

Or am I way off in assuming the CF currently offers nothing like this.


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## NCRCrow (1 Jan 2006)

291 trade offers linguist training for at least 6 different languages


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## medicineman (1 Jan 2006)

Another thing of note in that report is that Second language training is available to CF members and dependants - but that is only French or English.  As a general rule (up until very recently) you weren't considered Bilingual unless you spoke French and English - any others didn't count.  Oddly enough, now they do.  Perhaps the DND should get it's backside and realize that we're getting sent to places that don't always have either of those languages spoken and pers that show an aptitude and or desire should be sent on language courses, and not only if they are getting posted to an embassy.  Either that, or we'll have to get more 291's and other trained spook trades out in the field with the units, since there is no great guarantee of hiring and clearing locals or recruiting native speakers here in Canada in a timely fashion.

MM


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## GO!!! (1 Jan 2006)

It should also be noted that the "second language trg" provided in places like Edmonton is extremely poorly done, often by nominally qualified instructors, and with no provisions made for a french/english profile if you ever reach a certain level of proficiency. So it's there, but it is a sham - I've done it.


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## damageinc_101 (23 Jan 2006)

i was just woundering if you could learn any other language other then french?


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## bgc_fan (1 Mar 2006)

damageinc_101 said:
			
		

> i was just woundering if you could learn any other language other then french?



Well, you can check the website of the Canadian Forces Language School.  Here's a quick link:
http://www.cfls-elfc.forces.gc.ca/ncr/engraph/trg/info_e.asp


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## 54/102 CEF (25 May 2006)

As near as I can figure - in the last 2 years or so - plus or minus - big picture numbres of troops that have been over to the wild's of you know where = 10,000 or will be when we get 2 years of rotations in

Does anyone out there think local language training would assist? Is local language being done to any extent? 

My idea is if Joe or José Canuck shows up in the area speaking pretty good local lingo the word would get around that here`s some people we can get on ......... 

Think out of box now.


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## GAP (25 May 2006)

Is any offered or do they rely on English speaking Afghans? 

If there was some offered would it be given a choice to a civilian or a CF member with a background relating to the customs. The customs are half of it. They taught us some basic pidgin Vietnamese when I was over, but I still managed to tell one village chief he was a fishhead. :

( But what do I know about accents?) ;D


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## Centurian1985 (25 May 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> "The use of local interpreters as language and cultural advisers is an operational security concern," said a briefing note prepared for the military's head of intelligence and obtained under access-to-information laws.
> "Locally engaged personnel do not have a Canadian security clearance or any other credible police or security check when they assist in high-level political discussions, delicate local discussions, or support-sensitive activities such as (intelligence) and counter-intelligence teams abroad."
> The military has been using local translators for years. While the army found the practice important enough to flag, there is no indication that the use of locals has led to a leak of military secrets or intelligence.



Having worked with both local and nationally-approved interpreters, I would strongly agree with the operational concerns and disagree with the lack of 'indications'.  Local interpreters are open to blackmail and coersion, if not open cooperation with  possibly hostile organizations.  After these meetings they are able to pass on information to other parties who may ask questions about certain visits.  The same information you gain, they gain.  Locals cannot be trusted for meetings where sensitive information is being passed, period.  There is also the problem that can occur if the translator and the person being interviewed have the same language but opposing ethnicity or religion.  This is usually not a problem in countries where humanitarian aid is needed, but can occur in countries that have undergone recent periods of warfare between the opposing ethnicities and/or religions.   

(I.e. in Somalia, some interpreters would have to discuss with the interviewees their family and trible histories to find out if they could talk to each other or if their clans were enemies.) 

Reference another comment made, Canadians who can speak the local language are invaluable.  They are excellent for daily patrols and logisitics work, where all that is required is translating and pleasantries.  However, for higher level work, unless they were raised in that specific country, they are usually unaware of subtle language nuances, and may lack an understanding of local slang, customs, ideology, and prejudices. The advantage is that they gain more respect for being a 'foreigner' who speaks the local language, and are less likely to draw distrust and prejudice based on ethnicity or religion.


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