# Infantry Phase Trg vs basic Infantry Training



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Michael O‘Leary" <moleary@bmts.com>* on *Mon, 05 Jun 2000 23:49:05 -0400*
Albert,
Following their Basic Officer‘s Training Course BOTC, officers will
proceed to their corps/branch school for a series of ‘Phase" courses to
learn the technical, tactical and intellectual requirements to perform as a
junior officer in their classification. I can speak on the Infantry
approach, but cannot assert that every corps approaches things the same
way. Depending on the scheduling of courses and their career entry path,
new officers today often take their phase courses during the summer between
years at university at Royal Military College or a civilian institution
and/or attending secind language training.
In the infantry, BOTC is followed by Phases 2, 3, and 4.
Phase 2 is very similar to an infantry section commander‘s course. Weapons,
navigation, writing and delivery of orders, small unit section tactics,
recconnaissance patrolling, and leadership encompass the focus of this
course. It teaches the young officers the basics of their trade in the
infantry, as well as an understanding of their soldiers‘ roles, duties and
technical responsibilities.
Phase 3 is a dismounted platoon commander‘s course, very similar in context
to the QL6B Warrant Officer‘s course. Platoon tactics, orders, fighting
patrols, more leadership, and introduction to battalion weapon systems
theory are found at this training level. Also covered is the conduct of
training and conventional static ranges.
Phase 4 is a mechanized platoon commander‘s course. Tactical training
includes platoon mechanized operations, an introduction to company/combat
team tactics and a basic familiarity with battalion operations. Conduct of
field firing ranges for all platoon weapon systems is covered in detail. 
Each phase course is ten weeks long. While many officers today take one
phase per year, it was once not unusual for new officers particularly
those not being put through university by the system to take them all
back-to-back. BOTC before Christmas, followed by Phase 2, 3 and 4 from the
first week of January to the third week of August. I can tell you that
could be tough.
The above gives a VERY light overview of infantry phase training. Other
list contributors are invited to update and refine my comments, or to
discuss the approach found in other trades/corps.
Beacuse the infantry phase courses are not taught in discrete regimenatl
platoons, regimental history is not covered. This is left to the Regiments,
The RCR used to run annually a Regimental Officers Indoctrination Course
that introduced these subjects it‘s now run less regularly.
As to whether one is ‘tougher‘ than the other, it‘s hard to say. Even those
officers who came from the ranks and went through both would have a skewed
view, certain aspects the edge would be taken off Phase training with prior
experience. Basic Infantry training and infantry officer training, while
having some overlap in skills and knowledge, demand very different
expectations and performance requirements of their candidates. Each is
demanding on the participants, neither is ‘easy.‘ Neither is meant to be.
Pro Patria
Mike
At 09:22 PM 6/5/00  0000, Albert King wrote:
> What exactly is the traing that officers must undergo after Basic? Even
>though all infantry officers train together in one place, is regimental
>history taught in the same manner it is to NCM‘s or do they get the "bigger
>picture." Would battleschool can‘t call it that anymore be mentally I‘
>don‘t think so and physically ? tougher then officer training?  Thnaks. 
Michael O‘Leary
Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *glenn <"mirage590@flinet.com"@flinet.com>* on *Tue, 06 Jun 2000 06:53:13 -0500*
Michael O‘Leary wrote:
> 
> Albert,
> 
> Following their Basic Officer‘s Training Course BOTC, officers will
> proceed to their corps/branch school for a series of ‘Phase" courses to
> learn the technical, tactical and intellectual requirements to perform as a
> junior officer in their classification. I can speak on the Infantry
> approach, but cannot assert that every corps approaches things the same
> way. Depending on the scheduling of courses and their career entry path,
> new officers today often take their phase courses during the summer between
> years at university at Royal Military College or a civilian institution
> and/or attending secind language training.
> 
> In the infantry, BOTC is followed by Phases 2, 3, and 4.
> 
> Phase 2 is very similar to an infantry section commander‘s course. Weapons,
> navigation, writing and delivery of orders, small unit section tactics,
> recconnaissance patrolling, and leadership encompass the focus of this
> course. It teaches the young officers the basics of their trade in the
> infantry, as well as an understanding of their soldiers‘ roles, duties and
> technical responsibilities.
> 
> Phase 3 is a dismounted platoon commander‘s course, very similar in context
> to the QL6B Warrant Officer‘s course. Platoon tactics, orders, fighting
> patrols, more leadership, and introduction to battalion weapon systems
> theory are found at this training level. Also covered is the conduct of
> training and conventional static ranges.
> 
> Phase 4 is a mechanized platoon commander‘s course. Tactical training
> includes platoon mechanized operations, an introduction to company/combat
> team tactics and a basic familiarity with battalion operations. Conduct of
> field firing ranges for all platoon weapon systems is covered in detail.
> 
> Each phase course is ten weeks long. While many officers today take one
> phase per year, it was once not unusual for new officers particularly
> those not being put through university by the system to take them all
> back-to-back. BOTC before Christmas, followed by Phase 2, 3 and 4 from the
> first week of January to the third week of August. I can tell you that
> could be tough.
> 
> The above gives a VERY light overview of infantry phase training. Other
> list contributors are invited to update and refine my comments, or to
> discuss the approach found in other trades/corps.
> 
> Beacuse the infantry phase courses are not taught in discrete regimenatl
> platoons, regimental history is not covered. This is left to the Regiments,
> The RCR used to run annually a Regimental Officers Indoctrination Course
> that introduced these subjects it‘s now run less regularly.
> 
> As to whether one is ‘tougher‘ than the other, it‘s hard to say. Even those
> officers who came from the ranks and went through both would have a skewed
> view, certain aspects the edge would be taken off Phase training with prior
> experience. Basic Infantry training and infantry officer training, while
> having some overlap in skills and knowledge, demand very different
> expectations and performance requirements of their candidates. Each is
> demanding on the participants, neither is ‘easy.‘ Neither is meant to be.
> 
> Pro Patria
> 
> Mike
> 
> At 09:22 PM 6/5/00  0000, Albert King wrote:
> > What exactly is the traing that officers must undergo after Basic? Even
> >though all infantry officers train together in one place, is regimental
> >history taught in the same manner it is to NCM‘s or do they get the "bigger
> >picture." Would battleschool can‘t call it that anymore be mentally I‘
> >don‘t think so and physically ? tougher then officer training?  Thnaks.
> 
> Michael O‘Leary
> 
> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm 
> 
> Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
> improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
> leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
> end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
WTF IS THIS??? GET ME OFF THIS LIST!!!!!!
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:33:03 -0600*
Michael comments wanted from all from Ian Edwards:
If each Phase is 10 weeks therefore about 70 days how the heck is
anyone except a post secondary student or school teacher expected to
find time to take a phase? Will even the various levels of government
allow civil servants that much time off, and if so how can their job be
performed in their absence?
I also understand, from a discussion I had last night with a PRes
CWO, that QL7 is 90 days in length if he is "out" a little in is
calculation - so what? and that because of this barrier it has become
virtually impossible to make anyone a MWO coming up purely from the PRes
side of things. Therefore it has become necessary? to parachute in
former Reg Force Sr NCOs as potential MWOs and CWOs, to the detriment of
the units concerned.
Not expecting you to be an apologist for the "system" just asking for
comments, such as how practical would it be to break down phases and
higher QL levels into two or more parts so one could have a chance to
take them over a period of time. Understand, also,that QL7 is a Reg
Force course only, and that it‘s hard enough just to get a slot for a
PRes in lieu of Reg Forces.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *edward@IslandNet.com* on *Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:13:17 (PDT)*
Ian:
Phase training is designed to train Regular ForcKeep in mind that Phase training as delivered to the reseve force RESO is designed to cater to 
the reservist who is a college or university undergraduate and who therefore has May to Aug off school.
There are, every year, those reservists who are not students as above, but who nonetheless have time avail
to spend 10 weeks 13 weeks for ph 1 and 2 in sunny gagetown or elsewhere.  
To be blunt, phase training is not really designed for those reservists with full time jobs.  Other mechanisms such
as two week block training exist to train reservists who may only devote their holidays to learning the job.
Cheers Ted Underhill
> Michael comments wanted from all from Ian Edwards:
> 
> If each Phase is 10 weeks therefore about 70 days how the heck is
> anyone except a post secondary student or school teacher expected to
> find time to take a phase? Will even the various levels of government
> allow civil servants that much time off, and if so how can their job be
> performed in their absence?
> 
> I also understand, from a discussion I had last night with a PRes
> CWO, that QL7 is 90 days in length if he is "out" a little in is
> calculation - so what? and that because of this barrier it has become
> virtually impossible to make anyone a MWO coming up purely from the PRes
> side of things. Therefore it has become necessary? to parachute in
> former Reg Force Sr NCOs as potential MWOs and CWOs, to the detriment of
> the units concerned.
> 
> Not expecting you to be an apologist for the "system" just asking for
> comments, such as how practical would it be to break down phases and
> higher QL levels into two or more parts so one could have a chance to
> take them over a period of time. Understand, also,that QL7 is a Reg
> Force course only, and that it‘s hard enough just to get a slot for a
> PRes in lieu of Reg Forces.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
> 
>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Todd Harris" <harris@nortelnetworks.com>* on *Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:59:34 -0400*
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Ian,
There is a system in place that allows a Reserve Officer to take the
equivalent training over a longer time.  It is called MITCEP I may have the
acronym wrong.  Basically it breaks Phase 2 and 3 down into 9 parts which
are between 2-3 weeks long each.  This would then allow a Reservist to take
them over many summers, rather than 2 or 3.
Todd Harris 
Michael comments wanted from all from Ian Edwards:
If each Phase is 10 weeks therefore about 70 days how the heck is
anyone except a post secondary student or school teacher expected to
find time to take a phase? Will even the various levels of government
allow civil servants that much time off, and if so how can their job be
performed in their absence?
RE: Infantry Phase Trg vs basic Infantry Training
Ian,
There is a system in place that allows a Reserve 
Officer to take the equivalent training over a longer time. It is 
called MITCEP I may have the acronym wrong. Basically it breaks 
Phase 2 and 3 down into 9 parts which are between 2-3 weeks long 
each. This would then allow a Reservist to take them over many 
summers, rather than 2 or 3.
Todd Harris 
Michael comments wanted from all from Ian 
Edwards:
If each Phase is 10 weeks therefore about 70 days 
how the heck is
anyone except a post secondary student or school 
teacher expected to
find time to take a phase? Will even the various 
levels of government
allow civil servants that much time off, and if so 
how can their job be
performed in their absence?
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to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:22:21 -0600 *
you can actually do the MITCIP training over the course of one summer In my
trade anyway the theory being the remainder is taught OJT back at the
Battery.
The upside is MITCIP guys actually get training as a Recce Officer - a Phase
IV course and unavailable to Reservists unless the unit is willing to foot
the cost man-days pay for the duration.
That‘s the story out here in 41 anyway - doesn‘t seem to make sense does it
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Todd Harris [SMTP:harris@nortelnetworks.com]
> Sent:Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:00 PM
> To:‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘
> Subject:RE: Infantry Phase Trg vs basic Infantry Training
> 
> Ian, 
> 
> There is a system in place that allows a Reserve Officer to take the
> equivalent training over a longer time.  It is called MITCEP I may have
> the acronym wrong.  Basically it breaks Phase 2 and 3 down into 9 parts
> which are between 2-3 weeks long each.  This would then allow a Reservist
> to take them over many summers, rather than 2 or 3.
> 
> Todd Harris 
> 
> Michael comments wanted from all from Ian Edwards: 
> 
> If each Phase is 10 weeks therefore about 70 days how the heck is 
> anyone except a post secondary student or school teacher expected to 
> find time to take a phase? Will even the various levels of government 
> allow civil servants that much time off, and if so how can their job be 
> performed in their absence? 
> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:19:02 -0700*
This is an issue which I believe is at the heart of the reserve issue.  Our
government has the power to enact legislation to enable reservist to serve
under call up  or courses, with out penalty to them vis a vis thier civvy
job.  If they want to fix the reserves, and make them viable, they need to
take a systematic approach.  they can start with thier own part in the
degredation of the Armed Forces as a whole.  Anything less is just political
posturing and lip service.  A new white paper is needed, stating the
purposes and goals of our Forces.  Analyze what level of reserves are needed
to support what ever level of regs is identified.  Make the one augment the
other, and vice-versa.  There is no reason why a person couldn‘t finish a
basic engagement, in the army, then fit nicely into a reserve unit.  Both
would benifit, especially if that ex-reg knew he had a chance of
advancement, other than as a student.
Any thoughts on this line
Chimo
>
> > Michael comments wanted from all from Ian Edwards:
> >
> > If each Phase is 10 weeks therefore about 70 days how the heck is
> > anyone except a post secondary student or school teacher expected to
> > find time to take a phase? Will even the various levels of government
> > allow civil servants that much time off, and if so how can their job be
> > performed in their absence?
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:31:06 -0600 *
I‘ve always said offer some form of targeted tax relief to all businesses
that allow members to take Military leave to attend/teach
courses/concentrations.
I am sure there are any number of ways the bean counters in Ottawa could
draw up a formula - better yet have the Canadian Federation of Independent
Business or the Fraser Institute look at the problem - I‘m sure either one
of these vaunted tink-tanks could arrive at a system that is sellable to
both Ottawa and the Employers.
All it takes is the right person with the ability to say - "make it happen"
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"William J <andy> Anderson" <aanderson@sk.sympatico.ca>* on *Tue, 06 Jun 2000 21:59:40 -0700*
on 6/6/00 10:33, Ian Edwards at iedwards@home.com wrote:
> I also understand, from a discussion I had last night with a PRes
> CWO, that QL7 is 90 days in length if he is "out" a little in is
> calculation - so what? and that because of this barrier it has become
> virtually impossible to make anyone a MWO coming up purely from the PRes
> side of things. Therefore it has become necessary? to parachute in
> former Reg Force Sr NCOs as potential MWOs and CWOs, to the detriment of
> the units concerned.
This delema will never be solved to the satisfaction of everyone. Presently
there are Occupational Specifications for Reg Force and there are also Specs
for PRes. In some occupations the spec is close to being the same while
others have a real gap in the differences. This is based on the requirement
of the force but it poses a problem when soldiers from the PRes are employed
in the Reg force. There is, and always will be a ‘we‘ ‘them‘ attitude.
My TQ 7 was 53 training days and I am not sure if I could have done it if it
was broken into segments. I had a difficult enough time remembering points
taught the previous week let alone points taught a summer or more ago. hee
hee
I also sympathise with PRes soldiers working hard and trying to hone their
skills only to see a retired RSM or Sgt Maj parachuted into the unit because
he was better trained. Shortly after I retired and moved here I got a call
from the CO of the local reserve unit offering me a very cushy job. We had
lunch and he paid, but I declined. He told me that I was better trained and
could help him out. I told him that his unit needed to promote from within
to keep his Sr NCOs and WOs loyal and self actualised. I keep my hair cut
short and still sneak into the Sergeant‘s Mess now and again, albeit as a
visitor.
I‘m not saying that retired soldiers don‘t have something to offer the PRes
... because they do. I do believe that we old dogs would better serve the
soldiers in those reserve units as unpaid consultants and coach from the
sidelines for the sheer love of the game.
arte et marte
andy sends
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:24:29  0000*
--------------3B01F738A09A42A6F19D0F52
Accually I was talking about officer training for the reg. force. But it‘s
pretty much the same thing I guess.
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael O‘Leary wrote:
> Albert,
>
> Following their Basic Officer‘s Training Course BOTC, officers will
> proceed to their corps/branch school for a series of ‘Phase" courses to
> learn the technical, tactical and intellectual requirements to perform as a
> junior officer in their classification. I can speak on the Infantry
> approach, but cannot assert that every corps approaches things the same
> way. Depending on the scheduling of courses and their career entry path,
> new officers today often take their phase courses during the summer between
> years at university at Royal Military College or a civilian institution
> and/or attending secind language training.
>
> In the infantry, BOTC is followed by Phases 2, 3, and 4.
>
> Phase 2 is very similar to an infantry section commander‘s course. Weapons,
> navigation, writing and delivery of orders, small unit section tactics,
> recconnaissance patrolling, and leadership encompass the focus of this
> course. It teaches the young officers the basics of their trade in the
> infantry, as well as an understanding of their soldiers‘ roles, duties and
> technical responsibilities.
>
> Phase 3 is a dismounted platoon commander‘s course, very similar in context
> to the QL6B Warrant Officer‘s course. Platoon tactics, orders, fighting
> patrols, more leadership, and introduction to battalion weapon systems
> theory are found at this training level. Also covered is the conduct of
> training and conventional static ranges.
>
> Phase 4 is a mechanized platoon commander‘s course. Tactical training
> includes platoon mechanized operations, an introduction to company/combat
> team tactics and a basic familiarity with battalion operations. Conduct of
> field firing ranges for all platoon weapon systems is covered in detail.
>
> Each phase course is ten weeks long. While many officers today take one
> phase per year, it was once not unusual for new officers particularly
> those not being put through university by the system to take them all
> back-to-back. BOTC before Christmas, followed by Phase 2, 3 and 4 from the
> first week of January to the third week of August. I can tell you that
> could be tough.
>
> The above gives a VERY light overview of infantry phase training. Other
> list contributors are invited to update and refine my comments, or to
> discuss the approach found in other trades/corps.
>
> Beacuse the infantry phase courses are not taught in discrete regimenatl
> platoons, regimental history is not covered. This is left to the Regiments,
> The RCR used to run annually a Regimental Officers Indoctrination Course
> that introduced these subjects it‘s now run less regularly.
>
> As to whether one is ‘tougher‘ than the other, it‘s hard to say. Even those
> officers who came from the ranks and went through both would have a skewed
> view, certain aspects the edge would be taken off Phase training with prior
> experience. Basic Infantry training and infantry officer training, while
> having some overlap in skills and knowledge, demand very different
> expectations and performance requirements of their candidates. Each is
> demanding on the participants, neither is ‘easy.‘ Neither is meant to be.
>
> Pro Patria
>
> Mike
--------------3B01F738A09A42A6F19D0F52
Accually I was talking about officer training for the reg. force. But it‘s
pretty much the same thing I guess.
Michael O‘Leary wrote:
Albert,
Following their Basic Officer‘s Training Course BOTC, officers will
proceed to their corps/branch school for a series of ‘Phase" courses
to
learn the technical, tactical and intellectual requirements to perform
as a
junior officer in their classification. I can speak on the Infantry
approach, but cannot assert that every corps approaches things the
same
way. Depending on the scheduling of courses and their career entry
path,
new officers today often take their phase courses during the summer
between
years at university at Royal Military College or a civilian institution
and/or attending secind language training.
In the infantry, BOTC is followed by Phases 2, 3, and 4.
Phase 2 is very similar to an infantry section commander‘s course. Weapons,
navigation, writing and delivery of orders, small unit section tactics,
recconnaissance patrolling, and leadership encompass the focus of this
course. It teaches the young officers the basics of their trade in
the
infantry, as well as an understanding of their soldiers‘ roles, duties
and
technical responsibilities.
Phase 3 is a dismounted platoon commander‘s course, very similar in
context
to the QL6B Warrant Officer‘s course. Platoon tactics, orders, fighting
patrols, more leadership, and introduction to battalion weapon systems
theory are found at this training level. Also covered is the conduct
of
training and conventional static ranges.
Phase 4 is a mechanized platoon commander‘s course. Tactical training
includes platoon mechanized operations, an introduction to company/combat
team tactics and a basic familiarity with battalion operations. Conduct
of
field firing ranges for all platoon weapon systems is covered in detail.
Each phase course is ten weeks long. While many officers today take
one
phase per year, it was once not unusual for new officers particularly
those not being put through university by the system to take them
all
back-to-back. BOTC before Christmas, followed by Phase 2, 3 and 4 from
the
first week of January to the third week of August. I can tell you
that
could be tough.
The above gives a VERY light overview of infantry phase training. Other
list contributors are invited to update and refine my comments, or
to
discuss the approach found in other trades/corps.
Beacuse the infantry phase courses are not taught in discrete regimenatl
platoons, regimental history is not covered. This is left to the Regiments,
The RCR used to run annually a Regimental Officers Indoctrination Course
that introduced these subjects it‘s now run less regularly.
As to whether one is ‘tougher‘ than the other, it‘s hard to say. Even
those
officers who came from the ranks and went through both would have a
skewed
view, certain aspects the edge would be taken off Phase training with
prior
experience. Basic Infantry training and infantry officer training,
while
having some overlap in skills and knowledge, demand very different
expectations and performance requirements of their candidates. Each
is
demanding on the participants, neither is ‘easy.‘ Neither is meant
to be.
Pro Patria
Mike
--------------3B01F738A09A42A6F19D0F52--
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