# Help me pick my MOS



## qwjune (10 Jun 2013)

Hey there, not sure if this should go in combat arms or recruiting but i'll post it here and see if i can get one or two replies.

Im a 21 year old thats very intrested in joining the canadian military. Post military i hope to become a civillian firefighter. Heres where I'm stuck..im not sure what job in the canadian military is right for me. I've been back and forth from the recruiting centre trying to figure it out with them but there answers seem limited so i thought i would come on here for a change. First off i thought i wanted to join through Infantry then i re-thought the decision and figured medical technician was a better option for firefighting afterwards. I went to my recruting centre and realized i would need 5-6 courses for the credit requirement for that to be a possibility. They figure that would take me close to one and a half years to complete all the courses. Then i went over a new plan of attack..i narrowed down some choices to ammo technician, search and rescue (which shortly after i realized is not a possibility due to needing your primary care paramedic), combat enginner (i like the idea of eod work) or back to infantry. I just have a few questions..

1.) I want to be a civillian firefighter after my time in the military, is there any job they would look higher upon besides medical technician and of course firefighting (military) or would every job be on the same playing field?

2.) I want a job on the ground, not in the navy or air force but at the same time i dont want other peoples bloodshed on my hands if possible, at the same time im determined to serve my country and help others. What job in particular could be suited for me? (Thats what led me to search and rescue or possible eod work, the fact of helping others)

3.) Does every MOS get the same amout of time off yearly?

4.) What job keeps soliders the most physically fit as thats a big part of my life and always will be


Just kind of stuck right now, not sure what would be best suited for me as i want to fully enjoy the experience and make my contract time with the MOS worthwhille. Any answers would help before i go and sign any papers for something i wouldnt be giving 110%, thanks guys


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## Ciskman (10 Jun 2013)

I don't have an answer for you but the Sar Tech trade has ceased it's direct entry program so it would not matter  if you were PCP qualified anyways.

Good luck with your decision.


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## Cbbmtt (10 Jun 2013)

qwjune said:
			
		

> 1.) I want to be a civillian firefighter after my time in the military, is there any job they would look higher upon besides medical technician and of course firefighting (military) or would every job be on the same playing field?
> 
> 2.) I want a job on the ground, not in the navy or air force but at the same time i dont want other peoples bloodshed on my hands if possible, at the same time im determined to serve my country and help others. What job in particular could be suited for me? (Thats what led me to search and rescue or possible eod work, the fact of helping others)
> 
> ...



1)Why don't you train the be a firefighter w/o going to the Military?

2)Search and rescue requires schooling
 Primary Care Paramedic Certificate from a program accredited by the Canadian Medical Association and a current license or registration to work as a Primary Care Paramedic from a provincial regulatory body.

If you want to be a fire fighter, go study that as most of the jobs in the forces, you will have people depending on you and you just stated you don't want their fate in your hands.

3)www.forces.ca

4) You are responsible for your own pt in most postings after BMQ and training

It seems that you want to go to the military to become a fire fighter, if that job is not available, going to the forces so that you can become a fire fighter isn't really direct choice. You should just be researching being a fire fighter and start doing some community service and getting fit.

I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm an applicant myself. However, from what you have written here a lot of the guys on this site will just tell you that they can not make the choices for you and the fact you don't want to be held responsible for others is just not very smart.


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## mariomike (10 Jun 2013)

qwjune said:
			
		

> I want to be a civillian firefighter after my time in the military, is there any job they would look higher upon besides medical technician and of course firefighting (military) or would every job be on the same playing field?



If you want to work for TFS ( as an example ), you must get into the Enhanced Stream, rather than the General.

"Candidates must have successfully completed one of the following to be considered for the enhanced stream:
1. OFM/OAFC Pre-Service Firefighter Education and Training Program Certificate
2. NFPA 1001 – Firefighter I & II Certification
3. Ontario Firefighter Certification (OFM)
4. Full-time Structural Firefighter Experience"

There is no mention of military experience, but CF Firefighter would likely satisfy #4. 

( The general stream of the hiring pool will not exclude an applicant, but those in the enhanced stream are called first. )
http://www.toronto.ca/fire/recruitment/pdf/2012_job_ad.pdf

Edit to add.

If you want to be a municipal firefighter, you could apply to a composite department ( one that employs part-time / volunteer and full-time / career firefighters. ) 

Often when a full-time position(s) becomes available, qualified volunteers already on the department get hiring priority over candidates from off the street.

EG: "...in the event the Employer hires additional full-time firefighters within the bargaining unit of the XXXXX Professional Firefighters Association, a percentage of the positions available will first be offered to the volunteer firefighters, provided they meet the general criteria for hiring into this job classification."


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## Franko (10 Jun 2013)

You don't want other people's bloodshed on your hands.....bluntly put - the Canadian Armed Forces isn't for you.

Simply put, this isn't some Scout troop you want to join. Our job is not for the faint of heart nor a pacifist either.

EOD get dirty when required and I've seen them take down Taliban with the best of them.

Go and be a firefighter on civy street....although, even then you will probably be dealing with death there as well.


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## Tralax (10 Jun 2013)

At the end of the day OP, nobody can make your decision for you.

Whatever you decide will be your choice.  

Keep in mind that the minimum starting contract for CF is 3 years.  You do not want to get into a trade that you don't want, or don't want to give 110% every day.


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## Teager (10 Jun 2013)

If your looking at EOD be prepared to stick around the CAF for a lot longer than 3 years. You won't become an EOD operator right off the bat as there are many courses and experience you will need before reaching that level. As far as combat engineer goes if you don't want bloodshed on your hands rethink the CF as a whole. I am a combat engineer and can say I've had my fair share of blood on my hands.


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## Jammer (10 Jun 2013)

Go cook...you can put out kitchen fires too. FML... :facepalm:


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## Teager (10 Jun 2013)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Go cook...you can put out kitchen fires too. FML... :facepalm:



He could cut his finger...more bloodshed


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## Jammer (10 Jun 2013)

...and get posted to a ship....bad juju all the way around.

Forget the military...go be a mortician.


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## Jacky Tar (10 Jun 2013)

Main thing to remember is every member of the CF is a soldier first; any one of us can be tasked to grab a rifle and engage. Or as it was put to me longer ago than I care to admit "when you strip off all the crap, our job is to break shit and kill people."


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## qwjune (10 Jun 2013)

Thanks everyone for the replies besides Jammer. I asked a simple question and i only asked it because i know one to many of my close friends and family who have gone in infantry and came back with a completley different mindset when returning, not the right mindset if you will. I was basiclly just looking for some input between the 3 jobs, ammo tech, infantry and combat enginner and weighing out there differences. I know everyone in the military is a soldier first and thats fine. If its defense for this country then im all for it, maybe i mis worded when i made that statement. I was just looking for some answers....


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## Teager (10 Jun 2013)

qwjune just know that no matter what trade you do you can always find yourself in a situation thats life altering. Everyones abilities is different and no one really knows or can tell what can cause someone to have problems with there mind. The CF tends to deal with the dark side of humanity and we don't get to go to countries that are vacation like. All you can do is try to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If you are afraid of seeing things you don't want to see or getting PTSD then maybe the CF or emergency services aren't for you as that is part of the risk that comes with the job.


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## Cbbmtt (10 Jun 2013)

qwjune said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for the replies besides Jammer. I asked a simple question and *i* only asked it because *i* know one to many of my close friends and family who have gone in infantry and came back with a *completley* different mindset when returning, not the right mindset if you will. I was *basiclly* just looking for some input between the 3 jobs, ammo tech, infantry and combat *enginner* and weighing out there differences. I know everyone in the military is a soldier first and thats fine. If its defense for this country then *im* all for it, maybe i *mis* worded when i made that statement. I was just looking for some answers....



I suggest taking a course in English. Then I would seriously rethink your career choices if you don't want to get your hands bloody.


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## Jammer (10 Jun 2013)

Awwwww....No thanks to Jammer make Jammer sad for rest of day.....awwww.


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## Smirnoff123 (10 Jun 2013)

Have you gone to school for firefighting? 

While being in the military may be looked upon favourably by fire departments, it is still extremely unlikely for them to hire you if you do not possess the required certifications, e.g NFPA I and II, Proboard, OFM etc. These are obtained through civilian colleges, firefighting schools, like FESTI or Texas A&M or through working in a volunteer department.

Those are only the minimal requirements for most departments, lots of applicants will also have more advanced courses such as, high angle rescue, forest fire fighting, confined space courses, hazmat, DZ licence etc.

It is very competitive to get in, but I wish you luck.


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## JM2345 (10 Jun 2013)

qwjune said:
			
		

> If its defense for this country then im all for it



Remember that the Canadian Forces isn't just about defending Canada. You may be told to go kill someone who has never even heard of Canada, and poses no threat to anyone in Canada and never will. You don't have to want to kill people, but before making your application, I would say to make sure that you can honestly tell yourself that you CAN kill someone and that you can live with that. 

I watched a few documentaries before I made the final decision to apply, including 'The Battle for Marjah' (Follows US Marines) and 'Armadillo' (Follows Danish Soldiers), and those kept me up for hours and gave me good insight to what the job CAN be like under wartime conditions for the soldiers on the ground (combat engineer, infantry, med tech are mostly covered in those films).

So give those movies a viewing, and maybe they can help you make your decision better. Are those movies a typical day in the life of a soldier? Of course not. But that's what you should be prepared to step up for if you want to be one of the guys on the front line. I'm not a member of the Canadian Forces, just an applicant right now by the way.


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## JFM (10 Jun 2013)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Awwwww....No thanks to Jammer make Jammer sad for rest of day.....awwww.



Wow you're so edgy!!11! SO HARDCORE MAN 2EDGY4ME


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## Towards_the_gap (10 Jun 2013)

Take the advice on this board and go to college, get your NFPA 1001/Pre-service, and start applying like the thousands of other hopeful firefighters.

Don't waste time with the military if you can't see that sometimes, bloodshed=helping people. This is a nasty horrible disgusting world where life is cheaper than a $0.06 AK round, and you, should you deploy, may have to partake in that nastiness, and moreso, be nastier than the bad guys you are trying to beat. 

But be warned that as a firefighter you will then have to transition to cleaning up the after effects of this nasty brutish world, and day-in day-out bear witness to tragedy, hand over the scene, clean up, and then be ready to go again. Day in, day out.

By the sounds of your posts I don't think you realise what you may be getting yourself into.


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## Tralax (10 Jun 2013)

Jacky Tar said:
			
		

> Main thing to remember is every member of the CF is a soldier first; any one of us can be tasked to grab a rifle and engage. Or as it was put to me longer ago than I care to admit "when you strip off all the crap, our job is to break shit and kill people."



I know I'm not a CF member (yet hopefully), but this made me laugh when I was having a bad day.  Thank you.


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## DAA (10 Jun 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Take the advice on this board and go to college, get your NFPA 1001/Pre-service, and start applying like the thousands of other hopeful firefighters.



If the OPs intent is to eventually become a civllian firefighter, above is the best advice yet!!!   Oh, wait a second, you pretty much can't become a FireFighter in the CF without the above qualifications anyhow!


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## Scott (10 Jun 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Take the advice on this board and go to college, get your NFPA 1001/Pre-service, and start applying like the thousands of other hopeful firefighters.
> 
> Don't waste time with the military if you can't see that sometimes, bloodshed=helping people. This is a nasty horrible disgusting world where life is cheaper than a $0.06 AK round, and you, should you deploy, may have to partake in that nastiness, and moreso, be nastier than the bad guys you are trying to beat.
> 
> ...



Ding, ding, ding.

4 years in the Mo and got to pick up some nasty bits during. None of that prepared me for my first few weeks as a firefighter, and I have learned to never believe I am past "the worst you can see"

Oh, and if you can't have a sense of humour about things then never mind applying to either, IMO.


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## Jacky Tar (11 Jun 2013)

Tralax said:
			
		

> I know I'm not a CF member (yet hopefully), but this made me laugh when I was having a bad day.  Thank you.


We aim to please; you aim too, please


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## ZeroDark30 (30 Aug 2013)

C.G.R said:
			
		

> Have you gone to school for firefighting?
> 
> While being in the military may be looked upon favourably by fire departments, it is still extremely unlikely for them to hire you if you do not possess the required certifications, e.g NFPA I and II, Proboard, OFM etc. These are obtained through civilian colleges, firefighting schools, like FESTI or Texas A&M or through working in a volunteer department.
> 
> ...




spot on with that reply!

Firefighting outside the military is a different process & is very competitive!
You would have to play the waiting game & pay to play/try out.
First you would have to wait for a posting for a full time position (could be 1-4 spot with thousands of applicants). Most of the time the dept already knows who they want to hire (usually from their volunteers/ paid on call).

i find that the Canadian forces firefighting course to be really good, they teach you alot and the courses are ifsac approved from what ive heard.
You also save alot of cash because something like avionic firefighting is a really costly course to take.

you can get your seals/certs online for cheap but you wont get the hands on training like you do at Lakeland or Texas.
Training Division & firefighteracademy.com is where you can get most of your certs like Firefighter 1 & 2, Hazmat, Pump Ops etc. without paying an arm and a leg.
Then you have to get your EMR or first responder or medical responder cert (depending on your province) because you will be doing medical calls.
you want to be even more competitive then get your paramedics (if medical stuff isnt your fortay i suggest EMR level).

Then to be even more competitive you can try and get other courses done like high angle rescue, swift water rescue, confined space rescue,
vehicle extraction, industrial fire, wildland firefighting, fire inspector, fire investigator, incident command, aircraft rescue ARFF.. etc.
Driving- Air breaks endorsement, class 3 and sometimes they even ask for a class 4 (see Alberta and BC..Ontario i think its a DZ).

You can do wildland & industrial firefighting (oil riggs and companies usually up northern Alberta).
they are seasonal jobs tho.
If you have aircraft rescue- you have a shot at the airport

you want to be firefighter you will have to pay to play!
recruiting can be costly, just writing an aptitude test is already 200$ and up, your medical ($40-$80), physical test (another 200$ and up).
There are alot of solid guys and gals out there that have been trying to get on for 5 years plus!

If you can get into Firefighting in the Canadian forces then consider yourself very...no wait...extremely  lucky!!
Whether you are in the forces or emergency service (fire, ems, police etc), you are putting your life on the line as collateral for the other life.
You are responsible for your safety, your partners safety and getting the job done safely.  There will be days where everything goes south on you!


I'm not here to discourage you from applying outside,
but be prepared to pay to play and hurry up and wait !
your best bet is to join a volunteer dept close to home!
Some volunteer Depts pay for your NFPA level 1 & 2 courses  as well as other supplementary courses (even volunteer Depts you would have to wait for intake).
get the experience, dish out the cash and play the waiting game....because to get full time its like winning the lottery !


I heard that the only way to get into firefighting in the Canadian forces is re-mustering (when the firefighter spots open up).
I went to the recruitment office awhile back and i asked about firefighting & everybody looked at each other all lost. ???
The openings im guessing are only offered internally because on the outside nobody knows when the Forces hires for firefighters.
I recently heard that the next opening for Firefighters is in 2 years 

I've heard of civilian firefighters having departments on bases. They supposedly recruit to the general public ?
 DND firefighting i think its called?

Is there a Firefighter Thread on this board ? I couldn't find one using the search option.


and whoever doesn't like their firefighting job/spot  for the Canadian forces i'll gladly and kindly take it off your hands ;D

cheers


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## JorgSlice (30 Aug 2013)

If you want help picking an MOS, I suggest Steward. 


Seriously dude, pick it for yourself or you will end up hating life.


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## mariomike (30 Aug 2013)

ZeroDark30 said:
			
		

> Is there a Firefighter Thread on this board ? I couldn't find one using the search option.



"Firefighter's Thread":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37626.0;nowap

CF Fire Fighter  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27178.0


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## d_edwards (30 Aug 2013)

Will weigh in with  my two bits here,       

My brother is a civilian firefighter, and it took him over 20 years to get a full time position.   20 years of waiting for openings to apply, taking courses, upgrading, and keeping ahead of the constant changes in requirements,  he even had to get certified in typing of all things for one dept.     Some of his training he went to texas to do and was a good experience for him,  the rest was just dogged determination to do what it takes while working and raising a family.

In my opinion no trade in the CF will give you the breadth of certifications, and experience to make you competitive.   The exception being a CF firefighter.  As has been mentioned you may apply to enter that trade from within the forces but it is also very competitive, but  why should the CF make the considerable investment in you if civvie firefighter street is where your heart is at.



On a final note, there are some grammar Nazis here who will slam people for crimes against spelling.  Written tests form part of the civilian fire dept screening so if that is an area you are challenged in prepare for it.   Lower scores on the written exams kept my brother on the wrong side of the cut.    I only mentioned that because I notice someone made a point of it.


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## Towards_the_gap (30 Aug 2013)

d_edwards said:
			
		

> Will weigh in with  my two bits here,
> 
> In my opinion no trade in the CF will give you the breadth of certifications, and experience to make you competitive.



I'm just going to counter this..... I was a combat engineer Sgt who applied and was hired by a civvy fire department first attempt, 8 months from application to drill school. So there ARE trades that will give you the experience to make you competitive. And it wasn't luck, out of a class of 26, 6 were ex-military.


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## d_edwards (30 Aug 2013)

I am curious if  your combat engineer experience was the sole source of your training and experience.
My opinion was based on a knowledge local requirements.   Such as class 1 drivers permit, emr/emt training, etc.......
These reqs will vary from dept to dept.


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## ZeroDark30 (30 Aug 2013)

mariomike said:
			
		

> "Firefighter's Thread":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37626.0;nowap
> 
> CF Fire Fighter
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27178.0



Beauty!!!


Thanks Mate !

On a side note some fire depts have a soft spot
For CF members. Majority of the chiefs were once 
Members of the CF.

Cheers


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## mariomike (30 Aug 2013)

ZeroDark30 said:
			
		

> Majority of the chiefs were once Members of the CF.



Even today? 

When I joined the Department of Emergency Services it was still being run by the '46ers ( men who had served in the war ). 

They hired us - not HR, and they trained us - not the colleges. That, I believe, inspired loyalty to the organization.


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## Sunnyns (1 Sep 2013)

Make sure you pick something you are interested in.  I was the clerk for the guys doing occupational transfers.  Your trade has to be open to transfer out of and the trade you want has to be open to transfer into.  I've seen a lot of people pick a trade thinking that when the trade they really want opens up they'll just transfer into it.  It's a long process if it is possible.  Talk to the recruiters, see if there is a career drive in your area and talk to the guys about their trades.  What they like about it and what they don't.  I'm not sure if others would be open to this but what trades are you looking at. I'm sure you could get a lot of pm's about what people like and don't like about the trade they were or are in.
My son is now on his POET course for ATIS, I had him talk to 3 people about it.  One hates it (I don't know why he picked it if that was the case)  the other 2 love it and said why they love.  He got a lot of information before joining.  I was RMS (clerk) and my husband is MSEOP (trucker)

The one guy at our fire hall is a military fire fighter but it took him 2 years to get it.  Also 2 MSEOPS at the hall drive and operate the fire trucks.


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## ZeroDark30 (1 Sep 2013)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Even today?
> 
> When I joined the Department of Emergency Services it was still being run by the '46ers ( men who had served in the war ).
> 
> They hired us - not HR, and they trained us - not the colleges. That, I believe, inspired loyalty to the organization.



Im not surprised. 

Even when i was taking my Fire Rescue courses it was paramilitary.
My Fire Rescue  instructors were in all the  Navy, Army and Air force. Good instructors and they put in the work to see you succeed.


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## Scott (2 Sep 2013)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Even today?



No, likely not. The kid is proving he likes to yap a lot is all. 

Military experience is not a pre req and I am rather doubtful that it would get you much more of a look than any other career. Dedication is dedication. Then again, with hundreds of FT FDs across the country, I am certain some tend to weigh mil exp more. Individual experiences may vary

Zerodark,

While wildland is indeed seasonal, industrial is by no means a seasonal gig

I understand the excitement over getting in, but engage the reading bit a little more than the typing one.


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## mariomike (2 Sep 2013)

Scott said:
			
		

> Then again, with hundreds of FT FDs across the country, I am certain some tend to weigh mil exp more. Individual experiences may vary



I am familiar only with what I observed of TFS ( well over 3,000 full-time members ) at funerals, parades and various City functions. 

Also, TFS and T-EMS share a combined HQ and academy ( chiefs, deputies, recruiting, communications, planning, training etc. ) all under the same roof.

I saw lots of emergency services medals worn by the two services. But, very few military ( not since the '46ers retired ).

If either service keeps statistics of how many members are ex-CF, I have never seen them.


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## Towards_the_gap (2 Sep 2013)

I like to call OFS '6 CER' or '6 Fd Amb' due to the amount of ex-combat engineers and medics are on the job.


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## mariomike (2 Sep 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I like to call OFS '6 CER' or '6 Fd Amb' due to the amount of ex-combat engineers and medics are on the job.



Ottawa employs 868 full-time firefighters and 425 volunteer firefighters.

Toronto Emergency Services does not employ volunteer firefighters or part-time paramedics. All members are hired as full-time only.

To get on the TFS "enhanced" hiring list, applicants must have one or more of the following four qualifications:
1.OFM/OAFC Pre-Service Firefighter Education and Training Program Certificate
2.National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) 1001: Firefighter I & II Certification
3.Ontario Firefighter Certification (OFM)
4.Full-time Structural Firefighter experience

People can join as volunteer firefighters in Ottawa, and other communities, without those qualifications.  

Because volunteer and part-time work ( as firefighters or paramedics ) does not exist in Toronto, it may explain why a lower percentage of current and former CAF members have joined our Emergency Services.


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## ZeroDark30 (2 Sep 2013)

Scott said:
			
		

> No, likely not. The kid is proving he likes to yap a lot is all.
> 
> Military experience is not a pre req and I am rather doubtful that it would get you much more of a look than any other career. Dedication is dedication. Then again, with hundreds of FT FDs across the country, I am certain some tend to weigh mil exp more. Individual experiences may vary
> 
> ...



Well At least Im not trolling people 

While military experience isn't a qualification
It does look good on a resume. I do agree with you that Life experience does play a factor in the recruitment
Process. That said I'm not encouraging anyone to join the cf to get into a municipal fire dept. 
I do praise the CF firefighter classes because they do train their guys right

I do read actually. I'm posting my experience as a 
POC fire fighter, (wildland and industrial experience)My chief and lieutenants were all in the cf. 


Industrial fire fighting can be seasonal depending where you work.
If you work for an oil company like shell or suncor ( in fort mc Murray)
You are working in a fire hall situated within the industrial compound. 

If you work for let's say scott safety or fire master  (again northern alberta) you drive
to frac sites or oil drilling sites for various companies that contract you.
Usually the winter season is busy and there isn't much work during spring break up and summer.
If you have your high angle rescue or  confined space certs you can get on some gigs.


Well that's enough of my yapping

Cheers


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## ARMY_101 (3 Sep 2013)

Any chance anyone out there actually has this mysterious 'list' of open/closed trades? I can find the SIP/Force Production documents, but those too don't seem to be accurate with what people are saying is opened and closed.


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## Jacky Tar (6 Sep 2013)

Your recruiting center. Seriously, the only other way I (as a non-recruiter) could try putting a list together would be by sifting through the APS openings and trade intake on the DMC website, and I have too much to do in the day as it is.


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## ARMY_101 (6 Sep 2013)

Jacky Tar said:
			
		

> Your recruiting center. Seriously, the only other way I (as a non-recruiter) could try putting a list together would be by sifting through the APS openings and trade intake on the DMC website, and I have too much to do in the day as it is.



Of course. But the recruiting centres (usually) seem less than willing to help currently serving members; they're pushed to D Mil C, who in turn give half answers or just outright delete your inquiries without being read. I can read a SIP and understand how to read whether a trade is accepting 100 or 2 applicants, yet those numbers continue to shift throughout the year. There's no way of knowing what's 'really' open or closed unless you can get those answers from D Mil C.


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## Scott (7 Sep 2013)

Maybe it's you...


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