# BMQ and Release



## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

My son along with 132 other members are awaiting to be released.
He realized the military wasnt for him. 
They told him and others it would take 6 weeks for them to be out of St. Jean.
He is so angry.
Why would they keep them there, pay them, feed them for 6 weeks and waste Govt money.
He and many just want out, for cripes sake, let them go.
 :rage:


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## NavComm (12 Sep 2007)

Gee I wonder why your son wants out...do you always do his fighting for him? Maybe you should march down there and rip the sgt. a new one. The nerve of them, keeping your son and 132 other people against their will! :boring:


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## AmmoTech90 (12 Sep 2007)

Many reasons, all of them from people who came before him.

Some of them will change their minds during that waiting time.  Then the CF doesn't lose the money they spent recruiting your son.  I teach soldiers right out of basic training, we do not send people back to a holding platoon just because they had a bad day/weekend/week/month.  Probably around half of those who tell an instructor they dont want to be there end up graduating.  If we fired them out the door when they said I quit we would probably have to run an additional course per year.

He asked to join, he signed on for three years, the CF has already spent thousands on him, he should sit down, shut up, and maybe make a more considered decision next time he applies for a job/career, flushes a bunch of my tax money down the drain and then whine about it.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> My son along with 132 other members are awaiting to be released.
> He realized the military wasnt for him.
> They told him and others it would take 6 weeks for them to be out of St. Jean.
> He is so angry.
> ...



Holy crap!! He's only been there since Sept 3rd ...

There's a kid who suffers from indecision eh??  

Quick trip to pick him up though mom or dad ... once that 6 week period (if that long) is up. What 2.5 hours max drive??


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2007)

Beat me to it Vern.....................giving up after 8 days??

......and you are encouraging him to fail this test of manhood?
Some nice Mother :, I'm sure glad mine was there for me at the time.


I think I will give her a call just to tell her I love her.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Beat me to it Vern.....................giving up after 8 days??
> 
> ......and you are encouraging him to fail this test of manhood?
> Some nice Mother :, I'm sure glad mine was there for me at the time.
> ...



No worries Bruce.

My parents backed me up too ... right to the Cornwallis gate, and tossed out my luggage with a "grow up girl." Cripes, and I was only 20 ... not 22.

I forgave them though!! I love my job.  

_Edited because I have forgotten how to spell Cornwallis. I need some serious extra-duties._


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2007)

I was 17 when mine walked me to the train, made sure I got on, danced a little jig I'm sure,...........but then were there for me day or night if I needed them to take that collect call.

[ and I just called,  Moms a little tired from her water aerobics class....she'll be 80 in December ]


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## GAP (12 Sep 2007)

The poor little dears.....that going to take some serious handwringing, patting on back/top of head, hugs, and big time enlightenment on the part of the parents to help their young'n to overcome the trauma of making a decision.....but he did the right thing anyway....he gave up.....true Canadians!!


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

I know how you meant that GAP ... but it may earn you some demotes!!  

I'll pat your head for you if it occurs!!  ;D


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

first of all, i dont do everything for my son, thank you. I was wondering if anyone esle went through this.
Everyone makes a decision and realizes its not for them.
I stand BEHIND him...and back him up NO MATTER what his decision.
It is my tax money too.
All of you who responded, you all are very rude.
So, next time, keep you comments to yourself.


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## JesseWZ (12 Sep 2007)

With all due respect Maam, you logged onto an Army forum, where the majority of members have passed basic training, (and loads of other tougher courses to boot ) to complain about something none of them (unless one is secretly the Commandant of CFLRS) have any control over.


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## Danjanou (12 Sep 2007)

So Bruce, Vern care to bet ( as you both know what I do for a living) how long before this little dear is in my office wanting his Government issued hug and cookies and milk. :


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> My son along with 132 other members are awaiting to be released.
> He realized the military wasnt for him.
> They told him and others it would take 6 weeks for them to be out of St. Jean.
> He is so angry.
> ...



Sounds a lot like wondering if anyone else has experienced the same to me. 

Don't worry. This is the new military. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





where it only takes them 6 weeks to cut the apron strings. 

Glad to hear you support him in whatever decision he makes. That's good.


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

yes it is against their will. they asked to get out.
they said at any time they could ask for their release.
why did the platoon start off with 70 ppl and in less than a week are down to under 50, something wrong here.


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

I appreciate your comments, however was hoping for positive ones.
I did forget to mention, that I was in the military back in 1984 and when someone wanted out, they were gone.
I dont understand why it just takes so long now. 
That was my one and only question here.
Thanks.


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## JesseWZ (12 Sep 2007)

Not at all. That is what basic training is designed for. If I went into combat, I want to be damn sure that whoever I was with was there because they wanted to be there and had the drive to be there. Its all well and good for them to decide they don't want to be there, but I sure as hell don't want to be fighting with anyone under that attitude. When one joins the forces and signs on the dotted line (which is what your son did,) he should have been fully aware and informed of the oath he had taken to serve the Queen, Canada etc and as such cannot complain when he's being kept in St Jean and being paid, and fed for an extra 6 weeks. 

Edit: Some university grammar skills  I own.


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## old medic (12 Sep 2007)

I believe AmmoTech had a very good answer above with:



> I teach soldiers right out of basic training, we do not send people back to a holding platoon just because they had a bad day/weekend/week/month.  Probably around half of those who tell an instructor they dont want to be there end up graduating.


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

I agree Jesse with what you said.
So, he made a mistake. Its not for everyone. 
But he would rather be back here and working at his old job ... so he isnt cut out for it..big deal, so are alot of others.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> *yes it is against their will. * they asked to get out.
> they said at any time they could ask for their release.
> why did the platoon start off with 70 ppl and in less than a week are down to under 50, something wrong here.



Uhmmmm no,

It's NOT. Your son _et al_ signed a 3 year contract. They _can and did _ ask for their release; it's coming. In 6 weeks apparently. Not bad for breaking a three year contract eh?? It's no longer 1984. Time's have changed.

It's down to 50 because training is tough, and physical, and hard (you'd remember that from your time in I'm quite sure). People get recoursed all the time due to injury, but they stay in because they want to be there and because they can hack it. Platoons drop strength but it is indeed a VERY slim minority who ...

put in their release. That's the sit your son is in.


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

vern, could you please tell me why you are so defensive, all i asked is..why cant they be released sooner.
I asked if anyone has experienced this.
You and many others here have gone off on me.
I dont need nor want to be crapped on.
thanks for everyones input.
hagd


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

Oh, and no one does their PT test until they arrive at basic now. So when your son calls you tonight ... go ahead and ask him how many of those 20 lost from the Platoon ... occured because they failed their PT Testing (those pers are NOT being released).


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

vern, they may not be released but they are held back..
anyways, thanks again for all your positive and negative opions...


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> I did forget to mention, that I was in the military back in 1984 and when someone wanted out, they were gone.



Funny, it took 6 months of doing poop-jobs everyday the way I remember 1984.



			
				toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> I dont understand why it just takes so long now.



Maybe because your son has wasted not just a lot of money but a lot of peoples time also. Everyone is hoping for a return on investment



			
				toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> I appreciate your comments, however was hoping for positive ones.



You think I should pat you on the head and say "Good Mother" for not trying to support and encourage your son??..............get stuffed.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> vern, could you please tell me why you are so defensive, all i asked is..why cant they be released sooner.
> I asked if anyone has experienced this.
> You and many others here have gone off on me.
> I dont need nor want to be crapped on.
> ...



Defensive?? Cripes, read your original post!! You did nothing short of accusing the military (ie the CF, my employer), FALSELY I might add, of holding your son and 132 others against their will.

What a load of el toro poo poo that is. Wander up the road to that School or Base in the town you live in ... tell me how many people in chains you see wandering about.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2007)

And,

Is there an instructor from CFRS Saint-Jean who can confirm for me that Holding Platoon is made up not just of those few awaiting releases, but of those who were medically recoursed and are awaiting a healthy recovery for a return to training??

Ie: not all 132 in the Platoon are awaiting release action ... actually only the minority of them?


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## JesseWZ (12 Sep 2007)

Well I am just an OCdt, and have never actually been on Holding Platoon or "PAT", I believe the platoon is made up of  recourses, releases and injuries. 

Edit: More grammar flaws.


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## toyotaecho25 (12 Sep 2007)

ok, like i said, maybe i made a mistake coming on here, all I wanted was info.

Dont tell me to get stuffed.....I wasnt rude to you.
anways, enjoy your military life.....
b/c that is what YOU chose to do.
ok so i didnt know what a Pat plattoon was...like whatever..
anyways, I am out of here for good...chow...


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> Dont tell me to get stuffed.....I wasnt rude to you.



Yea, your're right ...................maybe its because I [ and Danjanou] see so many "clients" who are never taught, or shown,  to "just do it" and push through when things suck.

I've taught my kids that its OK to lose to someone better, its _never, ever_ OK to lose because someone worked harder or you just gave up.................and I don't see that in this situation.
In my mind you are showing/teaching him that its OK to just give up and be a loser.......


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Sep 2007)

Jeez someone seems a wee bit pissed that the government doesn't work as fast as they want it to.... get use to it WE DEAL WITH IT ALL THE TIME


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## p_imbeault (12 Sep 2007)

Toyotaecho25 I hope your son finds a career better suited for him, good luck to both of you.


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## exo (12 Sep 2007)

Honestly he can make the best or worst out of his time on PAT.  Tell him to get out and volunteer for the jobs that they need done and the time will fly by and he may even enjoy it.  I spent 6 weeks on pat (due to release)a couple years back and still made some good friends(in pat platoon and a couple Master corporals and corporals that I worked with).  Just tell him to enjoy the little to no inspections and the weekends at the iberville(SP?) Hotel.(still the only pay by the hour hotel I have been in)


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## TCBF (12 Sep 2007)

I actually sympathize with the originator of this post - though from the other side.  Our stretched Medical and Administrative systems can no longer rapidly release people with their former alacrity.  We had a young NCO releasing  a year ago just before Christmas and a 'serviceperson' in the release section was put out at how 'fast' some people were expecting her office to function. Apparently, the concept of not going home until the day's work is done is unclear to many people.

From a financial perspective, it makes no sense to have non-producers lounge around on the guvmint payroll.  From a morale perspective, it's bad for them and the sooner they can be put back on the street to fend for themselves - the better.  

We need a 'probationary' TOS that will allow us to rel pers rapidly during their BE.  "Not Economically Trainable" should be a viable release item, along with other items  pertaining to irregular enrollment in the case of previously undisclosed or undiagnosed non-visible above-the-neck injuries (psych), as well as "failure to Adapt to the CF".


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## Michael OLeary (12 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> I appreciate your comments, however was hoping for positive ones.
> I did forget to mention, that I was in the military back in 1984 and when someone wanted out, they were gone.
> I dont understand why it just takes so long now.
> That was my one and only question here.
> Thanks.



There's a process that must be followed.  It really isn't as simple as saying "Right, off you go"

One reason that it's more deliberate now is that way back in 1984 we could march someone to the gate with the CO's authority.  By the time all the paperwork drifted up the chain, they were gone, even if the release was poorly done, or for the wrong reasons.  Even recruits have human rights, and that includes the expectation that their release is proper, with due process, and includes a clear opportunity for them to recant their request, request a new trade, or to protest what they feel is unwanted acceleration towards the exit.

Then again, not long after those fast and loose days of the early and mid 80s, we also saw a period of poor recruiting and the expectation that a recruit, once in the door, would NOT leave before their three years was up.  There were a lot of long faces and dragging lips in the field units in those days as disgruntled troops waited out the whole 36 months of their basic engagement. 

I would recommend you suggest he spends the next six weeks contemplating what motivated him to try the military in the first place, why he's decided so quickly that it's not for him, and what his next move will be.  Perhaps he'll then be better prepared for his next career decision.


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## secondchancers (13 Sep 2007)

Wow, that's all I can say.  Across this country and on this forum are hundreds of people currently waiting in the recruiting process.  Waiting for the call, the interview, the medical etc, and this ladies son is taking up a spot that I or someone else who wants to be there could have taken. 

The kid obviously wanted to be in the military before he hit basic, otherwise he wouldn't have gone through the process.  Now he wants to come home and you're gonna just encourage him???  This really isn't love or support.  Sometimes as a parent you need to show some tough love and tell him to suck it up.  My 9 year old loves it when I tell her that so I'm sure your 20 something baby will enjoy too.


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## toyotaecho25 (13 Sep 2007)

to all the people with bad attidudes you need to take a closer look at yourself.
i was just looking for info, and you have no respect for anyone.
at least i am proud of my son, and i stand behind him no matter what his decision.
he is far from a baby. and you would be proud if you had a son like him. 
so take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself, what kind of person are you?
you dont care about anyone but yourself.
as for armyvern, you have a bad attitude and trust me....i wouldnt want to be around you.
leave this subject alone........
it was a big mistake coming on here in the first place.
hope you all sleep well...lol


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## tomahawk6 (13 Sep 2007)

The best thing you could do for your son would be to tell him to suck it up and fulfill his contract. If he doesnt like it then he can move on. Your son needs to grow up. Quitting when the going gets tough will be a pattern the rest of his life if you let him quit.


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## GAP (13 Sep 2007)

I guess it's kinda like a car wreck.....just can't keep from looking..... :-*


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## armyvern (13 Sep 2007)

toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> to all the people with bad attidudes you need to take a closer look at yourself.
> i was just looking for info, and you have no respect for anyone.
> at least i am proud of my son, and i stand behind him no matter what his decision.
> he is far from a baby. and you would be proud if you had a son like him.
> ...



I assure you that my parents are very proud of me too, and my grandparents etc etc ... 

 :

I also assure you that I have an excellent attitude, it's just counter to yours; perhaps the problem??



I don't sleep (I'm an insomniac), but when I do, I sleep deeply & peacefully thanks. Thanks for comments. Have a great day. 



			
				toyotaecho25 said:
			
		

> ...lol



 :


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## Bruce Monkhouse (13 Sep 2007)

OK, I can't see where any good can come of continuing this thread.

If you have something new [and worthwhile] to add to this, PM a Moderator.
Thanks,
Bruce


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## karma (11 Nov 2009)

Could someone please explain what a voluntary release is about. Is this to get out of the basic training completely?, or is this a means of getting transferred to the warrior platoon?
Thanks  :yellow:


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## JBoyd (11 Nov 2009)

http://www.army.ca/wiki/index.php/Articles_for_Release#4___Voluntary

It is a release from the Canadian Forces entirely.


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## karma (11 Nov 2009)

Thank you, my son is in basic training and I think he has decided to take this 
VR. It makes me sad. I was hoping that he would not be able to do this and would have to complete the full training. Someone told him he could leave at the 5 week marker.


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## helpup (11 Nov 2009)

karma said:
			
		

> Thank you, my son is in basic training and I think he has decided to take this
> VR. It makes me sad. I was hoping that he would not be able to do this and would have to complete the full training. Someone told him he could leave at the 5 week marker.



Trust me your not the only parent who has every wished this.  However alot of kids will send mixed signals when talking to thier parents. Also the time there goes fast and what may have been bothering him one day may not seem so bad the next.  (that is not a huge percentage though)  Best of luck and hope it turns out for your son.


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## karma (14 Nov 2009)

Thanks, can they apply for this VR at anytime?


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## PMedMoe (14 Nov 2009)

karma said:
			
		

> Thanks, can they apply for this VR at anytime?



If I'm not mistaken, I believe they have to be in (or completed) 5 weeks.


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## Weapon tech (14 Nov 2009)

you can do a VR when you are on AWT or WFT platoon or you are at your week 5, the process can be very long 2 weeks and more. but Right now Christmas coming so they try to put out everyone before Christmas. Some case have a red tag on the file, means its urgent to go back home. Depending your case. I hope I did help you with the information.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Nov 2009)

karma said:
			
		

> .It makes me sad. I was hoping that he would not be able to do this and would have to complete the full training.



It's a double edged sword.
Some kids get freaked out and want to go home to their girlfriends sleeping in until 1 pm and xbox360.
Often the immediately regret quitting and try and get back in.  Moment of weakness kinda thing.

Some people just aren't meant for the military and it's good that they have the option of leaving.

Some people go as far as to hurt themselves to get kicked out of the military. They just can't handle it and for some reason injuring themselves as either a fake accident or suicide atempt seems like a good idea.


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## Doom (15 Nov 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> It's a double edged sword.
> Some kids get freaked out and want to go home to their girlfriends sleeping in until 1 pm and xbox360.
> Often the immediately regret quitting and try and get back in.  Moment of weakness kinda thing.
> 
> ...



Yea in my bmq course there was a guy who actually became slightly odder so to say, he talked about doing  stuff all the time, went to the mir in week 3 had a med chit for accelerated release. i felt bad  for the guy. but it is true some people do, do it.


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## Robodad (16 Nov 2009)

I got this from CFAO 15-2 - A member who requests voluntary release while undergoing recruit training will have the request granted no later than the completion of that
training.  A reasonable period to allow for counselling and administration
may precede release action.


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## Sea King Tech (16 Nov 2009)

"Yea in my bmq course there was a guy who actually became slightly odder so to say, he talked about doing  stuff all the time, went to the mir in week 3 had a med chit for accelerated release. i felt bad  for the guy. but it is true some people do, do it."

-Sould this person have been assessed by a psychologist after he had been talking about "doing stuff"?  By "doing stuff" I am assuming that he is talking about self harm.  Who would be responsible if he "does something" after his release?


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## Doom (20 Nov 2009)

Sea King Tech said:
			
		

> "Yea in my bmq course there was a guy who actually became slightly odder so to say, he talked about doing  stuff all the time, went to the mir in week 3 had a med chit for accelerated release. i felt bad  for the guy. but it is true some people do, do it."
> 
> -Sould this person have been assessed by a psychologist after he had been talking about "doing stuff"?  By "doing stuff" I am assuming that he is talking about self harm.  Who would be responsible if he "does something" after his release?



good question, cant answer that question at all. its a catch 50 or 20? i think ah... i guess maybe thats one of the reasons why they release the people who fall in the category so fast than?


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## chantellehofer (27 Jan 2014)

Can someone please help.  What is the fastest way of getting released from basic training if you haven't reached the 5 week mark yet?


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## chrisf (27 Jan 2014)

Tell the staff you all want to release.

Use the plural form whenever you refer to yourself during the conversation.


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## Smart Bomb (27 Jan 2014)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Use the plural form whenever you refer to yourself during the conversation.



Why is that?


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## Nfld Sapper (27 Jan 2014)

:facepalm:

 Think you missed his :sarcasm:


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## George Wallace (27 Jan 2014)

:

There are so many fast ways to be Released:

1)  Be an utter failure at everything (Training Failure);

2)  Be an administrative problem (Administrative Burden);

3)  Be a MIR Commando;

4)  Compassionate reason;

5)  Fraternize with the Staff;

6)  See a Shrink;

7)  See the Padre; and 

8)  Many others.

Best way is to see your Staff and talk to them.  You will likely have to write a Memo explaining why you want to Release.  Most of the above points are not really good reasons to use for a Release.


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## Adelaide3 (22 Sep 2019)

Hello, 
My fiancé is currently in St Jean on week 5 of BMQ. He wants to complete it but would like to VR. Does he put his VR forms in before he graduates or after?


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## mariomike (22 Sep 2019)

Adelaide3 said:
			
		

> He wants to complete it but would like to VR.



For reference to the discussion,

Voluntary Release Questions  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/18252.75
6 pages.


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## BeyondTheNow (22 Sep 2019)

Adelaide3 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> My fiancé is currently in St Jean on week 5 of BMQ. He wants to complete it but would like to VR. Does he put his VR forms in before he graduates or after?



Word of caution: If he puts his VR in now, with 5 weeks left, that could possibly negatively impact his experience with the rest of the course, more so than what he may already be experiencing. This isn’t always the case, but it’s a possibility depending on the collective nature of his staff and his platoon dynamic...But anyway, if he really has his heart set on releasing, he needs to decide where he wants to sit around for anywhere from 3-5 weeks+ waiting to be released. If he’s Infantry, CFLRS might be the lesser of two evils, so he should submit them before grad. (There won’t be time at CFLRS after grad, because everyone gets shipped out to finish their next leg of training quickly, so if he waits until after grad he’ll have to submit them wherever he ends up.)

Out of curiosity, (and you don’t need to actually respond, this is kind of rhetorical) why does he want to quit? Has he talked to a padre, has he requested to speak with his staff about any concerns during an admin period when things are calm in order to make sure he’s making a decision while in the right frame of mind? If his decision is based on personal issues outside of training, has he (and you) thoroughly discussed if there’s a possibility things can be managed simultaneously—have all options been explored?

Going from experience—both personal and observed—staff can be receptive and understanding when someone is struggling, provided they’ve been a decent recruit up to that point. It’s common that some recruits have second thoughts for whatever reason.

I hope he’s not making a decision lightly, but the fact that he at least wants to finish BMQ is a positive. The training is good for 5yrs should circumstances resolve themselves and he wishes to rejoin.


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## winds_13 (22 Sep 2019)

Adelaide3 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> My fiancé is currently in St Jean on week 5 of BMQ. He wants to complete it but would like to VR. Does he put his VR forms in before he graduates or after?



If your fiancé is serious about wanting to release, he should put in his VR before finishing BMQ. The CAF policy, which he would have been briefed on when he enrolled, is that after successfully completing BMQ, a Voluntary Release will not normally be granted in the member's first 3 years of service.


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