# Skulls on Uniforms (From: Return To Old Army Officer Rank Insignia)



## Davionn (6 Jul 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> The SS ones?  You have to hand it to those Germans: with skulls on their collars it's not even like they thought they were the good guys.



Case in point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEle_DLDg9Y



Davionn


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## SeanNewman (6 Jul 2010)

That is an awesome video, great find!

Seriously, I have wondered that exact same thing.  It's almost like Star Wars where one side doesn't even pretend to be the good guys.  most wars at least have both sides feeling like they are the good guys, but skulls are a massive Info Op.


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## vonGarvin (6 Jul 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> but skulls are a massive Info Op.


Skulls are a massive Psy Op.  They have nothing to do with aiding your commander, or hindering the opposing commander.

RN Submarines fly the "Jolly Roger" at times.

HM Submarine Turbulent :






HMS Conqueror flew this after sinking the Belgrano:





HMS Splendid in 2003:





Anyway, I have an even awesomer idea for rank structure.
No symbols.  No crowns, curlies or anything.  For army people, here it is:
The following is sewn in large tape across your chest in day-glo
PRIVATE
CORPORAL
MASTER CORPORAL
SERGEANT
WARRANT OFFICER
MASTER WARRANT OFFICER
CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER
OFFICER CADET
SECOND LIEUTENANT
LIEUTENANT
CAPTAIN
MAJOR
LIEUTENANT COLONEL
COLONEL
BRIGADIER GENERAL
MAJOR GENERAL
LIEUTENANT GENERAL
GENERAL

Ou, la meme chose en francais.  
It's the wave of the future!  ;D


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## SeanNewman (6 Jul 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Skulls are a massive Psy Op.



Last time I checked, _Captain Doctrine_, PsyOps *is* one of the Info Ops, just like PAO, Computer Network Ops, Kinetic Ops, OpSec, etc.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (7 Jul 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> RN Submarines fly the "Jolly Roger" at times.


WARNING – SLIGHT TANGENT/

Following the introduction of submarines in several navies, Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson, the Controller of the Royal Navy stated that submarines were "underhand, unfair, and damned un-English" and that he would convince the British Admiralty to have the crews of enemy submarines captured during wartime hanged as pirates.  In response, Lieutenant-Commander (later Admiral Sir) Max Horton first flew the Jolly Roger [two flags in fact] on return to harbour after sinking the German cruiser Hela and the destroyer S-116 in 1914 but the Jolly Roger was not generally flown by submarines until the next war.  In World War II it became common practice for the submarines of the Royal Navy to fly the Jolly Roger on completion of a successful combat mission where some action had taken place as an indicator of how successful a submarine had been.

Flying the Jolly Roger continued on into the 21st century: Amongst others, HMS Conqueror raised the flag with a red bar to recognise her successful attack on the Argentine cruiser ARA General Belgrano during the Falklands War and HMS Turbulent flew a flag carrying crossed tomahawks (representing the launching of Tomahawk cruise missiles) on returning from a 2003 Iraq War deployment.  Canadian, Australian, and others occasionally fly the Jolly Roger to represent a successful mission.

Symbols on the flag indicated the history of the submarine, and it was the responsibility of the boat's personnel to keep the flag updated.  The Royal Navy Submarine Museum (which possesses fifteen original Jolly Rogers and is well worth visiting if you’re in Gosport) recognises 20 “official” symbols:
- A bar denotes the torpedoing of a ship: red bars indicated warships, white bars represented merchant vessels, and black bars with a white "U" stood for U-boats.
- A dagger indicated a 'cloak and dagger' operation: typically the delivery or recovery of shore parties from enemy territory.
- Stars (sometimes surrounding crossed cannon) stood for occasions where the deck gun was fired.
- Mine laying operations were shown by the silhouette of a sea mine: a number inside the mine indicated how many such missions.
- A lighthouse or torch symbolised the boat's use as a navigational marker for an invasion force.
- Rescue of personnel from downed aircraft or sunken ships was marked by a lifebuoy

Interestingly submarine service was considered unofficer-like due to the dirty conditions and hands-on work.  Officers were discouraged by their surface brethren who referred to it as ‘The Trade’ and thus not befitting an officer and gentleman.  The name was adopted by the submarine community and has stuck ever since.  The poet Rudyard Kipling explained it as a manifestation of the old Victorian snobbery of looking down on “trade”, which was still pretty well entrenched, and engineering was “trade”.  Submariners, even members of the executive branch, had to be more than a little competent engineers, hence they were involved in “trade”, and so, by implication, below the salt. All this was said in a good-humoured manner, but there was just the tiniest bite underneath it all.

Here’s Kipling’s famous nod to the submariners:

‘The Trade’  

THEY bear, in place of classic names,
Letters and numbers on their skin.
They play their grisly blindfold games
 In little boxes made of tin.
Sometimes they stalk the Zeppelin,
Sometimes they learn where mines are laid,
Or where the Baltic ice is thin.
That is the custom of "The Trade."

Few prize-courts sit upon their claims.
They seldom tow their targets in.
They follow certain secret aims
Down under, Far from strife or din.
When they are ready to begin
No flag is flown, no fuss is made
More than the shearing of a pin.
That is the custom of "The Trade."

The Scout's quadruple funnel flames
A mark from Sweden to the Swin,
The Cruiser's thund'rous screw proclaims
Her comings out and goings in:
But only whiffs of paraffin
Or creamy rings that fizz and fade
Show where the one-eyed Death has been
That is the custom of "The Trade."

Their feats, their fortunes and their fames
Are hidden from their nearest kin;
No eager public backs or blames,
No journal prints the yarn they spin
(The Censor would not let it in! )
 When they return from run or raid.
Unheard they work, unseen they win.
That is the custom of "The Trade."  

~ Rudyard Kipling

TANGENT ENDS/


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## Pusser (7 Jul 2010)

Canadian submarines also use the jolly roger and "death's head" (i.e. skulls) are/were not unique to the SS.  There is at least one British regiment that has a death's head badge that dates from the Napoleonic era.


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## Loachman (7 Jul 2010)

17th/21st Lancers.


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Jul 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> 17th/21st Lancers.



Simply called "The Motto"


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## Lex Parsimoniae (8 Jul 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Canadian submarines also use the jolly roger…





			
				Lex Parsimoniae said:
			
		

> Canadian, Australian, and others occasionally fly the Jolly Roger to represent a successful mission.


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## wannabe SF member (8 Jul 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Simply called "The Motto"



That's seriously badass


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## McG (8 Jul 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Seriously, I have wondered that exact same thing.  It's almost like Star Wars where one side doesn't even pretend to be the good guys.  most wars at least have both sides feeling like they are the good guys, but ...


The use of skulls on uniforms pre-dated not only the Nazis but also unified Germany.  It would appear the Totenkopf started with the Prussian military.


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## AJFitzpatrick (12 Jul 2010)

Inky said:
			
		

> That's seriously badass



Still borne by their successor regiment; The Queen's Royal Lancers


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## REDinstaller (12 Jul 2010)

The Boneheads. ;D


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## SeanNewman (12 Jul 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_crossbones_(military)

I can not say that modern troops are above this.  Not just Americans with the Punisher logo on their Humvees, either.


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## aesop081 (12 Jul 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> I can not say that modern troops are above this.



neither are canadian aircrews, but then again, i dont see a problem with skulls on uniforms.


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## wannabe SF member (12 Jul 2010)

General rule:
When they do it, it's evil, when we do it, it's awesome.

_Addendum:_ "They" may refer to any of the following: Pirates, Boer, SS, Washington capitals etc...


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## SeanNewman (12 Jul 2010)

Inky said:
			
		

> When they do it, it's evil, when we do it, it's awesome.



Technoviking,

Get that into doctrine somewhere, STAT!

I don't care what book, I'll write it in the first PAM I see tomorrow if you can grant me a Skulls Annex.


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## ProudNewfoundlander (5 Oct 2010)

Theres also August von Mackensen from the first world war


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## Edward Campbell (5 Oct 2010)

Lots of pictures of 1. Leibhusaren Regiment, whose uniform - with the distinctive badge - von Mackensen wore, here.


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## the 48th regulator (5 Oct 2010)

Ah, such is the noble savage.....

dileas

tess


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