# Russian army recruitment



## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Hello everyone. I am 19 years old now. About 4 years ago back in Russia i was in grade 8 as far as i remember and the all the boys from my class had to go to recruitment center because you have to get a passport but most importantly you HAVE to go in the army. If you don't have a passport you are considered homeless and you will be but in jail once you are 18 and finished high school.
  Let me tell you how and how long the recruiting process took us. There was a guy in front of us all and there were about 9 rooms and recruiting people. Well the crowd was moving so fast that it took only 2 hours for 30 people to get through all the rooms. Then i got in the first room. I walked in and there was a woman who measured my height and weight. OK next room. Now there was a man who didn't even notice me when i walked in and was writting something on a paper. I sat down after 2 minutes but then he screamed "Did i tell you to sit down???" I said no but i saw a chair so why not sit down in it? He became as red as a the stripes on Canadian flag. He went somewhere and about 5 minutes after that a few soldiers walked in with the guy and one of them hit me in a chest with his AK-47. I got got in less then one second. Soldier said "This is what's waiting for you in the army you fucker". I don't know how much i was lying on a floor but i thought i was dying. When i stood up i the guy told me to sign a paper and told me to move on. In a next room there was a woman and i thought OK i can sit down now. So when i sat the woman screamed "Stand up" and i stood because i didn't want to get hit by one of those ak's anymore. She took my vision and hearing in less them one minute. OK i probably went in too much details about the whole thing but the important part is that with all my illnesses such as ulcer, asthma, bronchite and 9 more that i didn't memorise they said "OK kid your good to server the Russian army". I mean people like me should be home on a strict diet and care. Well after 2 years the army was expecting me. But my family left in Canada a year after that and the army was far behind. 
  I didn't wanted to think or even to know what might have being and what would happen with me in their freaking army but let me tell you a couple of things. You have to go in the army unless you are dead. If you don't go in the army you go in jail, but the Russian army and jail are almost the same things. Remember the soldier i was talking about. Some time ago i saw a documentary on History television about Russian army. A new soldier comes in and says hello to everyone and introduces himself. Then the last thing happened to him was a knife that went in his throat. He didn't die instantly but slowly. This happens when there is an excess of soldiers per one house. Those soldiers who were in army for 2 years are called Grandpas and those who are new called Spirits. So if you are a spirit you better be in a best shape and know how to fight because they beat up spirits everyday. Once you are a grandpa you get to beat up spirits and they can't do anything because 2 years of fighting  everyday will get you fists of still. 
  Now I'm here in Canada very pissed because i see how much effort you have to put to join the Canadian forces like interview, aptitude test, medical test, physical test. Forget about that in Russia, you can be a retard, a worm that can barely walk but you have otherwise you go in jail where you don't see sumlight for 5 years compared to 2 years in army. So guys this is about it and don't throw a lot of comments on my spelling because I'm still learning the language and i hope this story will amaze you to what other nations in the world experience. Peace!


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

hmmm,

sounds fishy to me...

dileas

tess


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## ExistancE (20 Aug 2005)

I can't comment on how accurate it is but from my fairly brief study of the current Russian military I'm inclined to believe most of it.


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

> I can't comment on how accurate it is but from my fairly brief study of the current Russian military I'm inclined to believe most of it.



please elaborate your study.

dileas

tess


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

I think you can find a lot of info on the net, just by typing " Russian army grandpas and spirits" in the search engine. Try wikipedia as well :warstory:


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

so in other words you went to wilkpedia, read what it was about, and then cam here pretending you got "hit with the but of an AK.."

Pal, On yer bike....

Again I fly the BS flag...

dileas

tess


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## Armymedic (20 Aug 2005)

> Now I'm here in Canada very pissed because i see how much effort you have to put to join the Canadian forces like interview, aptitude test, medical test, physical test. Forget about that in Russia, you can be a retard, a worm that can barely walk but you have otherwise you go in jail where you don't see sumlight for 5 years compared to 2 years in army.



That is because we have a volunteer, professional, and career oriented army, not the conscripted masses in Russia.

Here its a good paying job, which when the recessions hit, is one of the better places to work. For quite a while the CF was turning away applicants, and hence why they have the procedures they have in place.


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

I thought that you liked my story but now i see that it is a waste of time because i said that you can do a reasearch in need of more information to fill in your brains. Well most of the story about the army of my country that is RUSSIA is saw on History television. But before that my father told me about his story but i didn't belive it untll i saw the documentary. The whole film was like word in word that my father told me. And yeah, i don't know if there's any info on the net about Russian grandpas because the International Media doesn't really give shit about what's happening but i can find you 100 of Russian web sites about Grandpas. 
   The story about my recrutment process however was real. And the army that was waiting for me with their Grandpas was real as well. Trust me if you will ever travel in last Soviet Union countries and if   COPS stops your the first thing he will ask you is THE PASSPORT.


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Armymedic if you were refering generally to me then this aint no news for me. But if it referes to mostly other people thank you for backing up my story!


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## Armymedic (20 Aug 2005)

Russianboy
I am not going to comment on the validity of your comments, as I could neither prove or disprove them. But after seeing and hearing how certain third world armies are "recruited"...


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

ok,

Sorry, You have convinced me, I appologize.

Feel free to research the site with the Magical "Search" button;

ÃÂ¿Ã‘ ÃÂµÃ'ÃÂ°ÃÂ½ÃÂ½Ã‘â€¹ÃÂ¹

tess


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

I just don't understand why you can't be certain about it. Even to me when i was younger i didn't care too much about army. i knew life was good but untill one day when me and my bodies went to a party and had a couple of drinks, well a couple is always too much for me. So we were a little bit drunk and were waiting for a bus while smoking a ciggarete. We were talking and saw a man coming towards us. Withing 2 metres he takes out a gun and says "On your knees, let me see your passports" while on our knees he was searching us and when he didn't find them he decided to take us to police station to verify our age. When we got there there were 3 big guys siting there and drinking Vodka, so we knew what will happen next. Well 3 of us were beaten untill we spited with Blood. So either you have a passport or don't have a passport you are FUCKED if you get caught by COPS. They are corrupted. The only thing that might help is money.
   But this isn't the only think that happened to me. Ever heard of Russian Skinheads? There are serious idiots who have nothing to do but to go out and kill a couple of people because they are not slavic. it's like their motto- Not Russian, not alive. So immigrants in this country particularly JEWISH die each day from skinheads
   Just like i said, if you want to know the truth you might want to spend some of your money to Travel in Moscow. That's were all the action lives. Street Arbat. Oh and buy yourself a gun. A machine gun with a couple of granades. This way you will see the reality and you will not disaprove my story


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

the 48th regulator 

  ÃÂ¡ÃÂ»Ã‘Æ’ÃÂ¶ÃÂ¸ Ã‘ÂÃ‘â€¹ÃÂ½ÃÂ¾ÃÂº, ÃÂºÃÂ°ÃÂº Ã'ÃÂµÃ'Ã‘Æ’Ã‘Ë†ÃÂºÃÂ° Ã‘ÂÃÂ»Ã‘Æ’ÃÂ¶ÃÂ¸ÃÂ»!!!!!!


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## 48Highlander (20 Aug 2005)

gee, you mean Russia isn't a communist paradise?  I'm shocked!


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

You must live in stone age. Didn't you know that Russia isn't communist anymore?


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Ok this is taken from http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/6122/dedovshina.html

Russian Draftees Still Fear Beatings In Army

"Argumenty i Fakty" on 22 February reported that 78 percent of new Russian draftees fear that they will be beaten by more senior soldiers, a practice known as "dedovshchina." The paper said they have good reasons for such fears: crime in the military rose 30.6 percent from 1999 to 2000. PG


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

ÃÂ¾Ã‘ÂÃ‘â€šÃÂ°ÃÂ½ÃÂ¾ÃÂ²ÃÂ¸Ã‘â€šÃÂµ ÃÂµÃ‘ Ã‘Æ’ÃÂ½Ã'Ã‘Æ’

dileas

tess


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Ok i found a big piece of info about RA. 
http://www.soldiersmothers.spb.org/eng/Public_Dedovsina_eng.htm


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Ohh here's a video that might convicnce you about the Russian army. Here's too see what really happens. Please see it before saying anything

[Moderator edit: I took out your link because it violates the Conduct Guidelines.  However, I am assuming it is the Russian getting his head cut off by the Chechens - nasty (and not something that is permitted to be linked to an Army.ca).  Infanteer]


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## ExistancE (20 Aug 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> please elaborate your study.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



If you'd like to pm me an email address I'd be happy to forward you some articles ranging from newspaper articles to human rights watch studies, unfortunately I have no links and don't want to clog up this thread. Hopefuly that will be okay.


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

> If you'd like to pm me an email address I'd be happy to forward you some articles ranging from newspaper articles to human rights watch studies, unfortunately I have no links and don't want to clog up this thread. Hopefuly that will be okay.



nope,

you can let everyone else know, as well I have the PM function activated, sp feel free to use itl.

dileas

tess


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## ExistancE (20 Aug 2005)

Fair enough then. Here is a bit of a longer one. Starts off slow but does get into some sick stuff. As sent to me via email

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Dedovshchina Abuses: An Overview
Alexander D. was one of many conscripts Human Rights Watch interviewed for its research on the Russian armed forces. Throughout our research, conscripts from all over Russia told us numerous versions of what was essentially one and the same story. They spoke about the dedy treating them like slaves, of the violent punishments they suffered at their hands, and of gratuitous abuse. They recounted the indifference and remoteness of the officers, and the increasing despair they felt at the prospect of a full year of initiation, and, eventually, their decision to runaway. There were exceptions, of course: the occasional conscript talked about a unit where there was no, or almost no, dedovshchina. Their stories varied greatly in details, as initiation practices vary to some extent from regiment to regiment and depend on local traditions, the personalities of the dedy, the first-year conscripts, and the officers. Yet, the uniformity of the testimony was striking.

This report discusses three broad, interconnected categories of dedovshchina abuses: coerced servility, with its excessively arbitrary orders; gratuitous abuse; and excessive punishments, for failing to comply both with expected servility and for violating formal rules.

Expectations of Servility to Dedy
While the Military Code of Conduct gives second-year conscripts some formal authority over first-year conscripts who are lower in rank, it also limits this authority, stipulating clearly that orders may not be given that have nothing to do with military service or that are aimed at violating the law.81 Yet, in practice, dedy expect servility of first-year conscripts. They make up arbitrary rules that first-year conscripts must abide by, and change them at will; they expect first-year conscripts to be at their service at any time of day or night, and for any kind of order, whether lawful or unlawful, safe or dangerous, innocuous or malicious. If first-year conscripts complain, fail to deliver, or refuse to abide the rules or orders, the dedy punish them in whatever way they see fit, and often do so violently. These rules and demands dominate every aspect of the life of the first-year conscript: their day-time military duties, food, personal hygiene, health, possessions, and sleeping patterns. The military code of conduct does not provide for these arbitrary restrictions or the threats of punishment should they refuse to obey. Thus, from the point of view of Russian law, the vast majority of the orders and rules of the dedy are not lawful.

Determining whether these rules and orders also violate international human rights law is more complicated. A certain level of submissiveness to soldiers who have served longer arguably strengthens the respect for hierarchy necessary in military structures. This is the case even if new recruits are told to perform acts that are mildly degrading-for example, cleaning soldiers' dirty boots, repairing their uniforms, or fetching them food-and do not directly serve the special mission of the military. But there must be a limit to this submissiveness; otherwise the right to be free of degrading treatment would be negated. Likewise, some interference with the right to health may be acceptable, but initiation treatment may not unjustifiably threaten the health of new recruits. It is important to note that, even if many of the dedy's orders do not in and of themselves amount to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, their cumulative effect may well push them over the threshold.

In this section, we primarily discuss the orders and rules of the dedy during off-hours and with respect to the property of first-year conscripts. We also briefly discuss the situation with respect to meals and health, which was documented extensively in another Human Rights Watch report, "To Serve without Health."82 We do not consider as violative of international law the assignment of the most unpleasant tasks during day time routines, such as the dirtiest kitchen duties, or heaviest tasks keeping the military base clean. First-year conscripts generally did not talk about this in their interviews, evidently considering it a fact of life that junior conscripts perform the least pleasant official tasks. Indeed, this would seem routine in armed forces around the world and raises no concerns under international law.

Food, Money and Other Belongings
Van Bladel observes that Russian soldiers live in a "world of scarcity," lacking such "fundamental things as food, beverage and especially money."83 This may explain why dedy use dedovshchina so consistently to prey on new recruits' money, food, and clothing, and to coerce them into procuring the same.84 Conscripts face the constant threat of violent punishment for failing to surrender their property, no matter how meager, or to procure food, cigarettes, and the like.

They told Human Rights Watch that dedy routinely confiscated their property immediately upon arrival at the unit; forced them to hand over their salaries every month, as well as food and money they received in the mail or during visits from their parents. The dedy also frequently ordered first-year conscripts to procure money, food, or cigarettes, thus forcing the conscripts to ask their parents for these items or to beg on the street. The dedy's demands that first-year conscripts procure for them were so routine that, in many cases, they placed the conscripts in a permanent state of servitude. Conscripts said they were beaten for failing to comply.


"Stodnevka"
Numerous conscripts described a tradition called stodnevka, or "one hundred days." According to this tradition, every night first-year conscripts have to put cigarettes under the pillows of dembeli (conscripts who have entered the last hundred days of their military service). They must inscribe the number of remaining days before the dembel's discharge order on the cigarettes. As one conscript explained to his mother, he had to write: "Thirty-eight days remain before ded Vova's discharge. All the best, dukh Roman."85 Several conscripts stressed the cigarettes had to be of good quality, or they faced punishment.

The conscripts all said forgetting to prepare the cigarette or failing to find one led to beatings. Vasilii B. said: "Every night he must have a cigarette. If you skipped a day and he comes in the evening and there is no cigarette - that's it. In such cases, they beat [you] very severely."86 The mother of another conscript said: "If eleven [junior conscripts] brought cigarettes and one did not, all [were taken] to the bathroom or storage room and beaten that night. Then the eleven [who did bring cigarettes] also beat the twelfth, who did not bring that cigarette.87


The story of one conscript illustrates the stresses associated with stodnevka particularly vividly. On May 27, 2002, Dmitrii Samsonov wrote to his parents and grandmother that the stodnevka was starting on June 19. He asked them all to send him supplies. For example, he wrote to his mother: "Mama, this is what I need for the next four months: every week a transfer of forty to fifty rubles, and a small package with Prima [cigarettes] and filter cigarettes... Mama, don't forget to send this immediately. Immediately!"88

The letter was delivered late and his parents received it only the day before the start of the stodnevka. A few days later, a second letter arrived in which Samsonov expressed his desperation:

Today the stodnevka is starting and I haven't received anything from you, nor from mama or grandma... I don't know what to do. It's 2:00 p.m. now. It will be lights-out in eight hours. I think that I will not survive this night. Or actually, I will survive but it will cost me a lot. I wrote to you, begged you-just in case, I also wrote to grandma-so you would [send me money] quickly but nobody responded. You just don't understand how important it was for me. I needed 200 rubles for the stodnevka, a pack of Yava Zolotoi [a cigarette brand name] and four cigarettes per day by June 19. That was it...89

As a post scriptum to the letter, Samsonov wrote: "I love you very much and miss you but I don't know how I'm going to survive now." In a letter dated July 13, 2002, Samsonov wrote that he was in a military hospital with a broken wrist. He wrote: "I'm not going to explain how that happened. It would take too long. I just wanted to inform you that I survived the beginning of the stodnevka." In the letter, he repeated his requests for money and cigarettes. 

On July 24, 2002, his parents received a telegram saying that their son had died the day before. Later, they were told that he had slit his veins.90

Confiscation of the Property of Conscripts 
Conscripts almost uniformly told Human Rights Watch that in the first days after they were assigned to a regular military unit the dedy took their civilian clothes, food packages from home, and their personal belongings. Many also said dedy forced them to swap newly-issued military clothing for their own worn-out clothes. In some cases, the dedy openly demanded that newcomers hand over these items, in other they took them while the first-years were outside or asleep.

Dmitrii Kosov told Human Rights Watch that when he and other first-years arrived at their unit outside St. Petersburg, military officials brought them into a room and sat them down. He said: 

They [military officials] took us in and sat us down in the Lenin room... We sat there and waited. Then some unshaven guy comes in, his pants are falling down, and asks everyone to give him money because he doesn't have enough to buy alcohol. [When nobody volunteers,] he takes one of the people...out into the corridor. This person later returns, clearly beaten. Then he [the unshaven guy] asks: 'Is there anybody else who doesn't want to share his money?' Everyone starts to give money. Then another one comes in and says that he will soon be discharged and that he needs pants. He collects six or seven pairs of pants. Others come in who need shoes. One of them liked my coat. My wallet went the same way, as did my telephone.91

Dedy told Anatolii T. to take the food package his mother had made for him to the pantry, where, as he was told, he could collect it later. However, when he went to change his clothes in the barracks, "they sat on the bed, and had already eaten it all."92

Aleksei Koshelev was left with nothing but his trousers when he arrived at his unit. He told Human Rights Watch: "[A]ll [the clothing] we had was new. Warm jackets... They, the dembeli, had old, worn out [clothing]... And they started to take [them] from us all. I met one [a ded] in the hallway. He said: "Take it off!" I said "I won't." They started to [beat me]...they took it anyway, took my cap... I ended up in just my pants."93

Numerous conscripts said senior soldiers went through their pockets and night tables as they were sleeping or outside. For example, Vasilii S. and Aleksei Koshelev said the dedy went through their pockets at night and took their belongings. Vasilii S. said: "Whatever you have in your night table disappears within two days. They can't be locked."94 Anatolii T. said that the dedy even stole his personal items, like his watch, tooth paste, soap, and razor.95

Confiscation of Salaries
Many conscripts told Human Rights Watch that the dedy confiscated their small monthly wage for purchasing cigarettes, tooth paste, and other personal items.96 In some cases, conscripts said, officers also confiscated their salaries. A few lucky conscripts told Human Rights Watch that they were allowed to keep their salaries.

Anton A., who served in a railroad troops unit north of St. Petersburg, said that, before he and his peers received their first salary, conscripts who had served six months more than they had, warned them that they had to hand their salaries over the dedy. "We went to get [our money], came back to the Company and handed it over." Anton A. said that he did not always have to hand over the full amount. "Sometimes they allowed us to keep sixteen or six rubles, sometimes nothing-as they [the dedy] saw fit." Once, Anton A. tried to keep his salary because he wanted to call his mother: "Junior Sergeant S. asked me for the thirty rubles. I said [that]...I wanted to phone home. He did not beat me but began to intimidate me: 'Do you want to live normally here? ... Watch out.'" Anton A. said that after that he "did not have a quiet day..." The dedy beat and taunted him, apparently in retaliation. Shortly after, he ran away.97

Alexander Sukhanov said that the starshina of his Company, a second-year conscript, disbursed salaries to conscripts. However, he always kept part of the salaries for himself. Once, when Sukhanov asked for his full salary, the starshina told him that he withheld it "for me, for gasoline. After all, it's me who drives around searching for you, or takes you to the military prison in my own car. You can't expect me to spend my own money on that, can you?" Sukhanov said that when he collected his salary, a ded always accompanied him: "As soon as you leave the Company, he [the ded] says: 'Let's share... God ordered [people] to share.' So I get the money, want to give him [just] ten rubles. He takes it all, quietly turns around and walks away." Sukhanov said the dedy routinely took the salaries of all twenty first-year conscripts in the company, with the exception of one conscript who had befriended a ded.98

A number of conscripts said they signed a registry every month to confirm receipt of money they never actually saw. In these cases, it was not always clear whether the dedy or officers took the money. For example, Aleksei K., who served as commander of a squad in Totskoe in Orenburg province, told Human Rights Watch that the commander of his battalion came by with the registry once a month, saying "Today is salary day," and had conscripts sign the registry. However, Aleksei K. and his fellow conscripts never saw a penny. He did not know where his money went. Aleksei K. also said he had spent the few months of his military service in a unit in Krasnodar Region, where officers made sure everyone got their full salary every month.99 In some cases, officers and dedy offered justifications for not giving conscripts their salaries. For example, Pavel P., who also signed for his salary every month but never received any money, said that he and his peers were told that the money was used to buy soap for them.100 

Confiscation of Money and Food from Correspondence
Dedy and officers routinely screen packages and letters for conscripts and confiscate any money and other valuables they contain. For example, Alexander Sokolov told Human Rights Watch that his grandmother sent him a five ruble note in every letter. While he received all her letters, the money was always gone and the envelopes were taped up.101 Aware of this pervasive practice, Pavel P. told his parents not to send him anything valuable: "Why [should they send things], if half disappears right and left?"102 Anatolii S. instructed his mother to specify the sender of the letter as someone not related to him because mail from parents was more carefully scrutinized. The mother of one conscript told Human Rights that, after a while, she started writing on the envelopes: "There's no money in here, give the letter to the soldier, he's expecting it."103 Conscripts whose parents sent food packages by mail said they were forced to "share" the package with the dedy. Ilia B. told Human Rights Watch that when a person receives information that a package has arrived, "he goes there with the starshii..., takes the package and comes back to the unit...and opens his package. And that is it... Two or three dedy walk up and say: 'Let's have a look.' They look, and half [your stuff] is gone. Another looks and you're left with one piece of candy."104

Visits by Relatives
Dozens of conscripts told Human Rights Watch that, whenever relatives visited them, the dedy confiscated whatever valuables and food they received. They said that refusal to give up these items led to beatings and was pointless anyway, as the dedy took the desired items nonetheless. In a number of cases, the dedy put together "shopping lists" for the relatives. The dedy frequently also sent conscripts from the area to their homes to get food and money, or made them contact their parents so they would visit them.

Aleksei Koshelev told Human Rights Watch that whatever his parents brought him during visits was taken away: "For example, my relatives came to visit, we sat around for two hours... I can't immediately eat everything, [but if I] bring a bag back to the Company, already at the checkpoint [it's]: 'Come here, we're going to search you...'"105 A number of conscripts told their mothers not to bring them care packages. Ilia R. told his mother: "Mom, it's pointless. I won't even get near my unit with this." He told her that the dedy would be waiting for him at the entrance to his base to shake him down upon his return.106 Another conscript told his mother that she should visit him only when he was in the military hospital because otherwise her visits were more trouble than good.107

In some cases, the dedy placed orders with conscripts who expected visits from relatives. For example, Anton E.'s mother told Human Rights Watch that the dedy instructed her son to make sure she brought packages of soup: "I told him I would [get some] and he said I should buy extra, that it 'wasn't for us.'" A fellow conscript of her son's later explained to her that the dedy had "warned him not to return without gifts."108 Egor Z. said the dedy ordered him to get his parents to bring him money, cigarettes, and notebooks when they were visiting. When Egor Z. did not get the dedy what they wanted, they beat him and announced that "things would get really bad" if he did not produce the goods by the next morning. Egor Z. and a fellow conscript climbed over the military base's fence that night and ran away.109

A number of conscripts who served near their hometowns said that the dedy told them to get money or goods from their homes. Alexander Sukhanov told Human Rights Watch that a ded told him and his fellow conscripts: "'I can't eat here, I'm sick of it, I want something else. Who's local?" When they learned that Sukhanov was a local, they instructed him to call home and "order something tasty." Sukhanov said his father brought some food over. The next day, the ded wanted something more "filling" and accompanied Sukhanov to his house to get more food. Sukhanov' mother told Human Rights Watch that at first she did not realize what was happening and put together some food. After that, she visited his unit twice per week and brought food packages each time, which the dedy took away from him every time.110 Dedy sent Vladimir Z. to his sister, who lived nearby, for money.111 Stepan K.'s mother told Human Rights Watch that dedy instructed her son to make his parents to bring 650 rubles to the unit. She said that the dedy told him that if his relatives did not bring these items before a specific date, "you will not have a life."112 

Demands for Money, Cigarettes, and Other Goods
A number of conscripts recounted how dedy demanded that they give them money, cigarettes and other goods that they did not have. These conscripts said the dedy did not care how they got these goods, by begging, stealing, or otherwise, and that they faced physical violence if they failed to deliver. For example, Vladimir P. told Human Rights Watch:

[The dedy] openly demanded money. Absolutely nobody was interested in where you were going to get it. At the factory, for example, [where I was sent to work] I had to put a cigarette every day [under the dembel's pillow]. In addition, you have to give them cigarettes during the day; they don't buy cigarettes. If he [the ded] wants to smoke, he walks up to you [and says]: "I need a cigarette." I initially had some money... If someone didn't have money, they asked passers-by. Our unit is located in the city and you could walk up to the fence [and beg]. This was a daily practice.113

The mother of another conscript said that dedy put her son and his peers out on the streets at night with orders for vodka and sausage. She said: 

These poor soldiers stand in Severomorsk with outstretched hands. I saw it myself when I drove by, they stood there... They also sent my son... he doesn't get rest at night, he's already sick because he doesn't sleep... And then, what can [he] do, he knows that if he does not bring vodka and sausage back [he will be punished]. ...and who will give him money at night? So he either has to steal handbags from women, or rob apartments, or sell himself. [My son] was beaten for returning without anything."114

Ilia R. told his mother that he and his fellow conscripts were "thrown across the fence" at night in order to get cigarettes and vodka. He described the attitude of the dedy as "if you don't have money, go and steal it." She said her son never stole anything, returned empty-handedly and was beaten.115

Pavel P. said that whenever a first-year conscript was given leave, he had to bring money, food, cigarettes, or other goods back for the dedy. Once, when Pavel P. failed to do so, the dedy scolded him for not bringing anything back, gave him three blows to the chest, and told him that he would not be given leave again. Later, when Pavel P. had to go to the military hospital for an unrelated illness, the dedy ordered him to bring back cigarettes and other things. He told Human Rights Watch: "Where am I supposed to get these? After all, I can't go and beg for it, can I?" So he decided to run away.116

Aleksei L. ran away from his unit because dedy punished him for failing to bring them the one hundred rubles they had demanded from him. His mother told Human Rights Watch that he did not have the money and was unable to find it. As punishment, the dedy put two military overcoats and a bullet-proof vest on him and beat him. The dedy told him the next day that if he did not bring them one hundred rubles that night, the "execution" would be repeated. Aleksei L. ran away together with a fellow conscript that evening.117

Off-Hours
Dedy considersleep a luxury that first-year conscripts have not yet earned, and frequently make that understood. Indeed, many first-year conscripts said the nights were a time they dreaded. One conscript captured the mood of many others when he told Human Rights Watch that "nobody liked lights-out because the most horrible things happened [at night]. We eagerly awaited reveille."118 Many first-year conscripts said that the dedy kept them up until long after lights-out at 10:00 p.m., or said they woke them in the middle of the night. Many told Human Rights Watch that they suffered from severe sleep deprivation and several maintained that they regularly "fell asleep standing."


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## ExistancE (20 Aug 2005)

Nighttime Chores
Practically all conscripts interviewed for this report said that the dedy made them do all sorts of chores: make their beds, wash, dry, and repair their uniforms, polish their boots, et cetera. Bannikov observes in his study of dedovshchina that "while the dedy and other privileged individuals watch their favourite television programs, the junior comrades must prepare their lodges for sleep: make their beds and straighten their blankets in such a way that [the ded] can cover himself with one movement of the arm."119 While many of the chores are themselves rather innocent, they are performed under threat of punishment. As we saw in the case of Alexander D., punishment for failure to perform these chores can be severe. Sometimes, the dedy gave an abusive twist to the chores themselves. For example, Anatolii T. said that the dedy would stand behind him and his peers when they made their beds and if they weren't fast enough, the dedy would mess the bed up and beat them in the kidneys.120

Shaving with Lighter
Several conscripts told Human Rights Watch that dedy had burned their facial hair as a punishment for not shaving, and soldiers' rights organizations confirmed this occurs regularly.149 The conscripts said the dedy gave them no time to shave during the day and that secret visits to the bathroom after lights-out were strictly punished, resulting in a vicious circle. For example, Anatolii T. said:

We used to get up at night to shave, wash and sew... One night, a ded saw me go to the bathroom. He beat me in the bathroom so my eye was all swollen. He asked me what I was doing and said I wasn't supposed to. If you don't shave, they come at night... If the sergeant sees that you're not shaven he shaves you with a lighter... It [doesn't give you burns] but leaves some red spots and is unpleasant.150

Pavel P. also complained that the dedy did not allow first-year conscripts time for washing or shaving and said that the dedy did not give them razors. As punishment for walking around unshaven, he said that the dedy made them rub a towel over their chins and cheeks to burn away the hair, or would burn the hair with a lighter.151


Collective Punishment
Numerous conscripts said dedy punished them collectively for the failure of one or more first-year conscripts to comply with the demand or rules of dedy. Valentina Melnikova of the Union of Committees of Soldiers Mothers of Russia told Human Rights Watch that collective punishment is "extremely widespread" and that "threats of collective punishment are a key tool of coercion."152 In the words of one conscript, Stepan M., "If someone does something he isn't supposed to or...does something not the way he was told to, [they punished us collectively]."153 Another conscript, Pavel P., said: "[If] someone did not clean up somewhere, didn't bring slippers where [the ded] wanted them, or...didn't make the bed evenly...all suffered because of [that person]."154

While collective punishment of prisoners and most other categories of people violates international human rights law, this is not necessarily the case when applied to military servicemen. Collective punishment can play an important role in promoting discipline and group cohesion in armed forces, both of which are crucial for their proper functioning. Indeed, most armed forces around the world use collective punishment in one form or another. Thus, the issue of the severity of the punishment is the key in making the determination whether a violation has taken place, not its collective nature.

Numerous conscripts said the dedy made them do push-ups and knee bends at night-evidently, this was the most common form of punishment used. Pavel P. said: "Everyone did push-ups... [They made us do them] until we dropped, one hundred, 150, sometimes 200. [If you fell, they said:] 'Get up and go on with the rest.'"155 Stepan M. gave another example:

We had to go to the smoking room [to smoke] but [the dedy] took us there very rarely [because it was cold]. The sergeants [the dedy] themselves could smoke in the toilet or washroom but we were not allowed... [So when] someone smoked in the toilet, they [the dedy] smelled it was smoky and they put everyone in a row and we did knee bends. We stand in a row and the first person counts to ten [we all do knee bends on each count], the second counts to ten and like that to the end. And there were eighty of us. And each of these eighty has to count to ten. Some of us fell and were taken to the sickbay.156

Ilia B. said the dedy made him and nine fellow first-year conscripts do push-ups "until he [the ded] gets sick of it." Sometimes the ded would order them to do push-ups, lie down on his bed and fall asleep. He said he and his peers would stop doing push-ups when they realized the ded was sleeping.157

In these examples, dedy limited their punishment to physical exercises and did not resort to any significant physical abuse. However, in other cases, dedy also beat conscripts while they were doing the exercises or when they failed to keep up. For example, Stepan M. said that the dedy had established a rule that first-year conscripts had to bring the white bread they received at mealtime to the barracks and hand over it to them. He told Human Rights Watch:

God forbid if someone saw you eat a piece of white bread. They wake you up at night, and you're again going to do knee bends and push-ups, and you get [hit] with a stool in the head or with a post of the bed. They often beat us with the post on the arms, muscles, legs and back.158 


Anton A. said violent collective punishment occurred frequently in his unit. He recounted the following incident, which happened a few nights before Human Rights Watch interviewed him:

One guy had forgotten his cup in a box for a fire extinguisher. The [officer who found the cup] punished the company duty officer [a ded]. And he [in turn] punished us in his own way. He woke us up at 4:00 a.m. and we started to do knee bends... [At one point] an officer came into the company and everyone ran [to their beds]. The officer left and [the dedy] lined us up once more. One guy said that he would not do any more knee bends because he couldn't any longer. [The dedy] started to yell: 'You can't, you can't?!' Then they beat him. But he didn't do any more knee bends. Then, to my surprise, they [the dedy] calmed down and said: 'Go to sleep.'159

A. said a day or so later the dedy retaliated against the conscript who refused to do more knee bends and apparently tried to force his head into a toilet bowl and beat him. A. said that he was taken to the sickbay with a bloody face and bruises all over his body.


Denis Ivanov said that nightly collective punishment in the barracks was rare in his company because the most senior ded--"the only person who did not try to humiliate people"-would not permit it. However, throughout the four months Ivanov served in the unit, the other dedy took them to the bathrooms for punishment. He said:

[W]hen there was [collective] punishment of the platoon, they lined up the whole platoon and brought us all to the bathroom. There [we had to do] all sorts of physical exercises and they beat us there. They made us stand with our faces to the wall. We had to do whatever they told us...160 

Alexander Kaiankin gave an example in which he was the cause of the collective punishment of his entire platoon:

I used to give my friends haircuts. A ded walked by and looked for someone to send to do some job in his stead. He walked up to me and said: "Let's go" but I refused. He immediately started [to get angry]: "What are you talking about? I'm a ded!" He began to harass me. I couldn't contain myself and hit him twice in the chest. I couldn't believe what I'd done. [I knew] three of them would beat me up... Later four of them came to me-he brought his friends-and said: "You, dukhi, what do you think you are doing? You have to submit. When you reach our seniority, in a year, you can abuse your own [dukhi]... Three of them beat me a little... Then they called up the rest of my platoon and beat all of them in turn. They put them all in a row and everyone got a share: a fist in the chest, a kick.161

Gratuitous Abuse
A system that designates certain people as having no rights, as dedovshchina does, is an open invitation for wanton gratuitous abuse. Human Rights Watch documented numerous abusive acts that dedy did not even try to justify in terms of rules, orders, or punishment. Most frequently, these abuses happened at night when the dedy were drunk. They ranged from poking fun at first-year conscripts in an abusive manner to forced acts of a sexual nature.

Drunken Abuse
Alcoholism is Russia's foremost social problem. Millions of Russians are alcoholics, and alcohol plays a significant role in human rights problems such as domestic violence and random police abuse. Unsurprisingly, alcoholism is a considerable problem on military bases. As has been noted above, a considerable percentage of conscripts suffered from alcohol addiction prior to their recruitment.162

For Anton A., dedovshchina started two weeks after he began his military service. He said that the dedy woke him and his peers up several times a week at night, "depending on how much they [the dedy] were drinking." He said that the dedy typically put them all in a line, and forced them to do push-ups and knee bends while wearing gas masks. While doing the exercises, the dedy "walked up to us and kicked us. They beat us on the heads, of course." Once, the dedy forced them to do push-ups and knee bends for two straight hours and only allowed them to stop when one of the conscripts lost consciousness. A. said: "I stood across from him. He went all white, and fell with his head against a bed. They took him to the sickbay. After that, things calmed down a little but soon the abuses started all over again."163

Alexander Sukhanov gave another example. He said that his ded together with three others drank every other night in his unit. "After lights-out [the ded] sent me repeatedly to get beer. I had to climb over the fence because you can't go out through the checkpoint [without authorization]." Sukhanov said the dedy regularly became abusive after drinking. 

If he was cheerful, he would start humiliating someone, laugh at him. He would throw someone's slipper under the bed...or throw someone's mattress out of the bed... But he could also beat someone, knock someone over, or burn him-whatever comes into his drunken head. He [picked] on those who couldn't say anything, who were afraid... There were me and some eight to ten others. He beat me, a wet towel wrapped [around his fist] so there wouldn't be any bruises. He hit me in the face, in the stomach. It's an army law that when you beat someone, you do it with a wet towel... I was afraid what would happen later.164

Sukhanov ran away from the unit several times but his parents returned him. After his second escape, he was in bed when a ded told him to come over and asked him why he had run away. After a short exchange of words, the ded told Sukhanov to go to sleep:

...I started to fall asleep. Everything was quiet. I was sleeping on my stomach. Suddenly someone sat down on my legs from behind and a big hand [pushed] my head into the pillow. The sergeant sat down on my back. I felt something hot on my back. He burned me with a cigarette. I wanted to scream but nobody could hear me-they buried me in the pillow. They managed to burn me twice when I heard an officer coming and the guard yelled something. They immediately ran away. The one who lay on top of me got into his bed last, and I figured out who he was. I noticed that he was drunk and did not care. He did not bother me again [that night]. The next day at the formation I...was afraid to stand next to him. He might cut my throat. That day, I ran away again.165

Human Rights Watch researchers saw pictures taken by the Soldiers' Mothers of St. Petersburg of several burn marks on Sukhanov's back.

Vladimir P. gave Human Rights Watch the following example. One night at 2:00 a.m., when he was standing guard, a clearly drunk ded walked up to him and demanded that he bring him soup: "Where am I going to get that at 2:00 a.m.?" he rhetorically asked Human Rights Watch. "I couldn't and I caught hell for it." Vladimir P. said the ded had beaten him in the kidney area and also beat a fellow guard, who had served six months longer than he had. After that, the fellow conscript hit Vladimir P. with the flat hand on the ear. When Human Rights Watch interviewed Vladimir P., he still had problems with his hearing in that ear but he has, according to Right of the Mother in Volgograd, fully recovered since.166

Sexual Violence
The relatives of two conscripts told Human Rights Watch that dedy had exposed the young men to sexual violence. We also interviewed several conscripts who, according to soldiers' rights organizations, had faced abuse of a sexual nature but who themselves did not provide us with that information directly. Soldiers' rights groups say that conscripts encounter sexual violence frequently.167

Renat U. told Human Rights Watch that his nephew, Igor U., suffered sexual violence from dedy who had accused him of being an informer for the commander of the company. When the nephew denied the accusation, the dedy gave him a week to find out who the informer was. One night, the dedy woke up the company, put it in formation, brought Igor U. forward, and said: "Did you find the informer?" When he answered in the negative, the dedy concluded that he was therefore the informer. They then ordered him to take off his clothes and told him to get on his knees. Next, they brought forward one of Igor U.'s peers, gave him a condom and ordered the conscript to rape Igor U. The conscript refused. The dedy chose another conscript and told him to put his genitals in Igor U.'s mouth. The conscript laughed and took off his underpants. Igor U. resisted. Eventually, the dedy kicked him, beat him with an iron bed post wrapped in towels, and gave him another day to find the informer. They threatened that if he failed he would be raped. Igor U. fled the next day.168

While in the hospital recovering from pneumonia, dedy forced Aleksei Andriushchenko, a first-year conscript who served at Kamenka military base, to imitate sexual acts with another conscript. The next day, Andriushchenko's dead body was found; according to military doctors, he committed suicide.169 A military court later found the dedy guilty of humiliation of their fellow servicemen causing serious consequences, and sentenced them to prison terms ranging from a year and a half to four years. In its verdict, the court stated that, in the night from February 16 to 17, 2001: 

Poluianov [a ded] forced Andriushenko to bare his torso and imitate an athlete. Then Poluianov and Karmashov [another ded] began to play cards. The loser repeatedly forced the ill servicemen, including Andriushenko, to hit each other on the forehead. The person being hit had to fold his hands over the forehead. Andriushenko received no fewer than five such blows.

At 2:00 a.m. that night in the same ward, junior sergeant Magomedov [a ded]...forced... Vasilkov [another first-year conscript] and Andriushenko to lie down on the floor and imitate sexual intercourse, making all relevant noises and kissing one another, for a half hour.

That same night and in the same place, between 3:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m., Poluianov and Kormashov...repeatedly hit and kicked each [of them] in different places of their bodies, causing bruises and abrasions. After that, they forced them to do push-ups until they collapsed: do knee bends; stand with knees and elbows on the legs of a stool that had been turned up side down; hang above a bed, with the hands and legs placed on the head and foot boards of the bed; stand with the legs half-bent, holding a stool in front of them with stretched out arms. Only after that...they allowed Andriushenko and Vasilkov to rest, but forced them to lie together in one bed.170


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## ExistancE (20 Aug 2005)

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[81] Article 40(4) of the Military Code of Conduct.

[82] Human Rights Watch, "To Serve Without Health. Inadequate Nutrition and Health Care in the Russian Armed Forces," A Human Rights Watch Short Report, Vol. 15, No. 9 (D), November 2003.

[83] Van Bladel.

[84] Van Bladel goes on to say that "money gives the soldier access to products that may color his gray, dull and monotonous life. It can improve his diet and may help him temporarily flee his dreadful situation through alcohol and drugs." Ibid.

[85] Human Rights Watch interview with the parents of Rem P., October 28, 2002, Novokuznetsk. Rem P. served in a training unit in Kashtak and then in a regular unit in Borzia, both in Chita Province. Rem P. is a pseudonym.

[86] Human Rights Watch interview with Vasilii B., October 17, 2002, Novosibirsk. Vasilii B. served in a training unit in Pereslavl-Zalesskii, Yaroslavl Province, and in a rocket troops unit in Uzhur, Krasnoyarsk Region. Vasilii B. is a pseudonym.

[87] Human Rights Watch interview with the parents of Rem P. 

[88] Human Rights Watch interview with the parents of Dmitrii Samsonov, October 27, 2002, Novokuznetsk. Samsonov's parents provided Human Rights Watch with copies this letter and other letters, which remain on file with us. Samsonov served in a training unit in Kolomna and in a regular unit in Nizhnii Novgorod Province.

[89] Letter from Samsonov to his father, dated June 19, 2002. The letter is on file with Human Rights Watch.

[90] Human Rights Watch interview with the parents of Dmitrii Samsonov. 

[91] Human Rights Watch interview with Dmitrii Kosov, April 11, 2002, St. Petersburg. Kosov served in the Ministry of Defense's unit 12744 in Osinovoe Roshche, Leningrad Pr ovince.

[92] Human Rights Watch interview with Anatolii T., April 13, 2002, St. Petersburg. T. served in unit 6716 of the Ministry of Interior's troops in Lembolovo, Leningrad Province. Anatolii T. is a pseudonym.

[93] Human Rights Watch interview with Aleksei Koshelev, April 12, 2002, St. Petersburg. Koshelev served in units 6716 (Lembolovo, Leningrad Province) and 6718 of the Ministry of Interior's troops.

[94] Human Rights Watch interview with Vasilii S. 

[95] Human Rights Watch interview with Anatolii T.

[96] At the time of service of most of the conscripts interviewed for this report, the wage was thirty-six rubles per month. It has since been raised to one hundred rubles per month (about U.S.$3.00).

[97] Human Rights Watch interview with Anton A., April 18, 2002, St. Petersburg. Anton A. served in unit 51046 of the railroad troops in Mga, Leningrad Province. Anton A. is a pseudonym.

[98] Human Rights Watch interview with Alexander Sukhanov and his mother, April 17, 2002, St. Petersburg. Sukhanov served in the Ministry of Defense's construction unit 32087 in St. Petersburg.

[99] Human Rights Watch interview with Aleksei K., October 4, 2002, Volgograd. Aleksei K. served in units 37115 (Krasnodar Region) and 61918 (Totskoe, Orenburg Province). Aleksei K. is a pseudonym.

[100] Human Rights Watch interview with Pavel P., April 19, 2002, St. Petersburg. Pavel P. served in unit 01375 of the railroad troops in Mga, Leningrad Province. Pavel P. is a pseudonym.

[101] Human Rights Watch interview with Alexander Sokolov. Sokolov served at a training unit in Belidzhi in Dagestan and in border troops unit 2350.

[102] Human Rights Watch interview with Pavel P.

[103] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Anatolii S., November 3, 2002, Cheliabinsk.Anatolii S. served in a construction unit near Ekaterinburg. Anatolii S. is a pseudonym. 

[104] Human Rights Watch interview with Ilia B., October 29, 2002, Novokuznetsk. Ilia B. served in a Ministry of Defense unit eastern Siberia. Ilia B. is a pseudonym.

[105] Human Rights Watch interview with Aleksei Koshelev. 

[106] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Ilia R., November 7, 2002, Cheliabinsk. Ilia R. served in unit 3344 in or near Ekaterinburg and briefly in 32 Gorodok. Ilia R. is a pseudonym.

[107] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Vasilii E., April 10, 2002, St. Petersburg. Vasilii E. served at unit 67636. Vasilii E. is a pseudonym.

[108] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Anton E., April 16, 2002, St. Petersburg. Anton E. served in a marines unit in Severomorsk in northern Russia. Anton E. is a pseudonym.

[109] Human Rights Watch interview with Egor Z., October 5, 2002, Volgograd. Egor Z. served in unit 6688 in the Northern Caucasus. Egor Z. is a pseudonym.

[110] Human Rights Watch interview with Alexander Sukhanov and his mother.

[111] Human Rights Watch interview with Vladimir Z. 

[112] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Stepan K., November 6, 2002, Cheliabinsk. Stepan K. served in a unit near Ekaterinburg. Stepan K. is a pseudonym.

[113] Human Rights Watch interview with Vladimir P., September 30, 2002, Volgograd. Vladimir P. served in unit 47084 in Vladikavkaz. Vladimir P. is a pseudonym.

[114] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Anton E. 

[115] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Ilia R. 

[116] Human Rights Watch interview with Pavel P.

[117] Human Rights Watch interview with the mother of Aleksei L., October 5, 2002, Volgograd. Aleksei L. served in a interior forces unit 3033 in Persianovka, Rostov Province. .Aleksei L. is a pseudonym.

[118] Human Rights Watch interview with Vladimir O., October 1, 2002, Volgograd. Vladimir O. is a pseudonym.

[119] Bannikov, p. 180.

[120] Human Rights Watch interview with Anatolii T.

[121] Bannikov, p. 181.

[122] Ibid., pp. 180 and 181.

[123] The description of Andriushchenko's plight is taken from the verdict of the Vyborg Garrison Military Court of January 18, 2002, which found that Andriushenko had committed suicide after other conscripts severely humiliated him on several consecutive nights. See below, "Sexual Violence," for further details.

[124] Human Rights Watch interview with Ivan Andriushchenko, St. Petersburg, April 19, 2002. A few days later, after the dedy forced him to imitate sexual intercourse with another first-year conscript, Andriushchenko was found dead. According to military doctors, he had committed suicide. His father believes that the dedy murdered him.

[125] See below for a description.

[126] One conscript told Human Rights Watch that, while the dedy were lying in their beds, he and his peers had to shake the beds to imitate the motion of a train. Human Rights Watch interview with Federov.

[127] Vasilii B. described "bicycle" as follows: "They put matches between your fingers and light them. When it gets hot, you start to wave your hands." Human Rights Watch interview with Vasilii B.

[128] Vasilii B. described "musical elk" as follows: You stand with your arms and fingers outstretched to the sides and sign songs. As you sing, you slowly move your hands toward your forehead. At the end of each verse a ded, who stands facing you, punches you at the level of your forehead. If you're hands are in front of your forehead, they break the punch. If not, you get hit in the face. The ritual derives its name from the fact that, when your hands are in front of your forehead, your fingers resemble the antlers of an elk. Ibid.

[129] Alexander D. described this ritual as follows: He would stand outside in the mud and when the dedy would tell "fire from the left" he had to drop into the mud on his in right, and vice versa. Human Rights Watch interview with Alexander D. 

[130] Bannikov describes the ritual as follows: "[A ded orders at any time during the night:] 'Dry flying mice!' and all dukhi must hang under the top bunk bed, holding on to the wire mesh with their hands and feet." Bannikov, p. 182.

[131] Bannikov describes the ritual as follows: "[A ded orders at any time during the night:] 'Dry parrots!' and all stand on the back of their beds, holding on to it not to fall, and the ded knocks them off with a pillow." Bannikov, p. 182.

[132] Human Rights Watch interview with Vladimir P.

[133] Human Rights Watch interview with Anatolii T. 

[134] See above, footnote 123.

[135] Human Rights Watch interview with Petr P., November 3, 2002, Cheliabinsk. Petr P. served in an interior troops unit in Lesnoi, Sverdlov Province. Petr P. is a pseudonym.

[136] For more extensive documentation about the role of dedovshchina in the denial of conscripts' rights to food and health care, see: Human Rights Watch, "To Serve Without Health. Inadequate Nutrition and Health Care in the Russian Armed Forces," A Human Rights Watch Short Report, Vol. 15, No. 9 (D), November 2003 

[137] Human Rights Watch interview with Andrei D.

[138] Human Rights Watch interview with Vladimir Z.

[139] Human Rights Watch interview with Aleksei Koshelev.

[140] Article 51.

[141] Article 54, 55, and 56.

[142] Human Rights Watch interview with Anton A.

[143] Ibid.

[144] Human Rights Watch interview with Aleksei Riabov, November 5, 2002, Cheliabinsk. Riabov served in a ministry of defense unit in 32d Gorodok, and at units in Shadrinsk (Kurgansk Province) and Karabash (Cheliabinsk Province). 

[145] Human Rights Watch interview with Vasilii B.

[146] Human Rights Watch interview with Denis Ivanov, April 17, 2002, St. Petersburg. Ivanov served in units 3526 (Lebiazhe, Leningrad Province) and 6717 (St. Petersburg) of the Ministry of Interior's troops.

[147] Human Rights Watch interview with Aleksei Koshelev.

[148] Human Rights Watch interview with Anton A.

[149] Article 335 of the Military Code of Conduct obliges conscripts to shave "in a timely manner."

[150] Human Rights Watch interview with Anatolii T. 

[151] Human Rights Watch interview with Pavel P.

[152] Human Rights Watch interview with Valentina Melnikova, August 10, 2004, Moscow.

[153] Human Rights Watch interview with Stepan M., April 18, 2002, St. Petersburg. Stepan M. served in unit 51046 of the railroad troops in Mga, Leningrad Province. Stepan M. is a pseudonym.

[154] Human Rights Watch interview with Pavel P.

[155] Ibid.

[156] Human Rights Watch interview with Stepan M.

[157] Human Rights Watch interview with Ilia B.

[158] Human Rights Watch interview with Stepan M.

[159] Human Rights Watch interview with Anton A.

[160] Human Rights Watch interview with Denis Ivanov.

[161] Human Rights Watch interview with Alexander Kaiankin, April 18, 2002, Sosnovo, Leningrad Province. Kaiankin served in the Ministry of Defense's unit 22336 in Volgograd Province.

[162] See above. Experts on armed forces have noted the prominence of alcohol among soldiers. In his book "Boys in the Barracks. Observations on American Military Life," L. Ingraham says that "oldiering and alcohol have been almost synonymous since the invention of armies." Ingraham, L.H., "Boys in the Barracks. Observations on American Military Life," (Philadelphia, 1985), p. 91. For the role of alcohol in hazing at U.S. colleges, see: Hank Nuwer, "Wrongs of Passage. Fraternities, Sororities, Hazing and Binge Drinking," (Indianapolis: Indiana University Press, 1999).

[163] Human Rights Watch interview with Anton A.

[164] Human Rights Watch interview with Alexander Sukhanov and his mother.

[165] Ibid.

[166] Human Rights Watch interview with Vladimir P.

[167] Human Rights Watch interview with Valentina Melnikova.

[168] Human Rights Watch interview with the uncle of Igor U., April 11, 2002, St. Petersburg. Igor U. served in unit 6717 (St. Petersburg) of the Ministry of Interior's troops. Igor U. is a pseudonym.

[169] As has been noted above, his father believes that the dedy killed his son.

[170] Verdict of the Vyborg Garrison Military Court of January 18, 2002.

© Copyright 2004, Human Rights Watch 350 Fifth Avenue, 34th Floor New York, NY 10118-3299 USA


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

So it is safe to say your "study" is garnered from the Internet then?

dileas

tess


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

The article Nighttime Chores is tranaslated from Russian.


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

Here lad,

I think you have us all mixed up,

Army.ru

dileas

tess


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Well all my high school friends in Russia are almost all in the army. I called my best friend about a year ago to check how he was doing. His mother talked to me and said that he went in the army and she didn't hear about him. Then i called a year after and his mother again talked to me but this time she said that he ended his life in the Army, but i was 99% sure that DEDI killed him. So how's that for appoval? Do you think it's another story taken from Wikipedia the 48th regulator ?


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

This web site http://army.ru/ has to do NOTHING with Russian army. It's a commerisial web site. There is not official web site of Russian army!


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

like I said, 

after your first post, That site is more for you.


Don't you get it??   Unless you have something to contribute, Please do visit that site!!   All you have posted so far are bad scripts to a Jean-Claude Vandamme/Dolf Lungren flick!

dileas

tess


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

This is a personoal story . I don't ow you anything, Don't like it don't read it. If you don't know that Russian isn't communist anymore then you wasted your high school years on something else. This is not a movie, but a real situation which anyone can encounter. And you probably watch movies too much!!!


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## Infanteer (20 Aug 2005)

Is this thread going anywhere?   Maybe someone should post those pictures of the Russian soldiers breaking bricks or something....


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Watching the crap with Van Dam and Dolph Lundgren can't be compared to what you see in real life. Some of you may want to review the Video that i have posted. I suggest that you watch it a couple of times. Please watch it and only after that throw what you think of Van Damme or Dolph Lundgren compared to what you saw
     
                                                     Removed by Mod


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## the 48th regulator (20 Aug 2005)

OK final one,

Infanteer can you lock the threadand get rid of this numpty please please please...

dileas

tess


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## Burrows (20 Aug 2005)

Locked by your request tess.


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## russianboy (20 Aug 2005)

Infanteer and the 48th regulator, so this is what you think about Russians. Crazy nut heads who can break bricks with their heads like Van damm. I think you are right. We are crazy. All Russians are crazy. You trow a punch at us and we throw back a brick at you. Ahhhhh i'm gonna go and break a wall right now i feel very crazy. 

MOD:  This got in before the lock.  I'm leaving it up to show how much of an idiot you are.


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## Burrows (20 Aug 2005)

This is what happens when you harass moderators over the PM system.



> Hello. I am very fucking pleased that you have locked me. Fuck you and suck my balls you fucking faggot.p



Bon Voyage.


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## Infanteer (20 Aug 2005)

INFANTEER: Alex, I'll take "dumbasses who like to be nasty via PM" for 200.

ALEX: "russianboy"

INFANTEER:   What is Banned?

ALEX: You're right - you control the board Infanteer....

Ãâ€ÃÂ¾ Ã‘ÂÃÂ²ÃÂ¸Ã'ÃÂ°ÃÂ½ÃÂ¸Ã‘Â, dork.


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