# Canada snubbed at international Minister of Defence meeting



## Scoobie Newbie (18 Jan 2016)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-not-invited-isis-paris-meeting-1.3409420


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## Old Sweat (18 Jan 2016)

Seriously, if we had wanted, we would have been invited. The level of critical thinking in the central agencies in Ottawa has taken another hit.


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## dimsum (18 Jan 2016)

I find it interesting the the CBC is reporting this without (I think) any pro-Liberal slant.  

Also from the article:



> In an interview with host Rosemary Barton, parliamentary secretary to the minister of foreign affairs Omar Alghabra called the meeting "spontaneous" and that "not being invited didn't come as a surprise."
> 
> ​Alghabra said the group of seven countries meet regularly, independently of Canada, and the only thing different this time is that they are meeting at the ministerial level.



Is he suggesting that we're pretty much out of the "adult's table" already, and have been for some time?


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## cupper (18 Jan 2016)

Heard a listing of attendees on a news report on NPR the other day and thought first that it was odd that Canada wasn't listed, then thought maybe they just didn't bother listing all of the attendees.


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## PuckChaser (18 Jan 2016)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Also from the article:
> 
> Is he suggesting that we're pretty much out of the "adult's table" already, and have been for some time?



If that was correct, why is it just being reported now? Some sort of Anti-Liberal bias from the Tory-friendly media?


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## ModlrMike (19 Jan 2016)

Of course it has nothing to do with our sending home our CF-18s.

Normally I'd make a quip about the relationship between "whipping out our CF-18s" and pulling out before the job is done...


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## observor 69 (21 Jan 2016)

I always enjoy the thoughts of David Bercuson ,  

"Canada shouldn’t tolerate U.S. snub on IS meeting"

Particularly the last para:

"Maybe Mr. Trudeau should consider this when he thinks about the “state dinner” President Barack Obama is throwing for him in March. Rubber chicken at the White House is no substitute for respect."

Complete article at:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/canada-shouldnt-tolerate-us-snub-on-is-meeting/article28279312/


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## Edward Campbell (21 Jan 2016)

Baden Guy said:
			
		

> I always enjoy the thoughts of David Bercuson ,
> 
> "Canada shouldn’t tolerate U.S. snub on IS meeting"
> 
> ...




Prof Bercusson is right, but it's *not* the fault of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau or Defence Minister Sajjan (who I, personally, find immensely unimpressive ... to date) it is, rather, as he says a continuation, since after Sir Robert Borden, of "Canada’s constant failure to actively insert itself in discussions such as this when the lives of our military are at stake"  which "has left us, once more, at the altar with no groom." Mackenzie-King was, as Bercusson describes, him too timid, even St Laurent was content to let Truman dictate our Korean War efforts and it was ditto for Mulroney, Chrétien, Martin and Harper when dealing with the Gulf War, the Balkans and Afghanistan.


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## Kirkhill (21 Jan 2016)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Prof Bercusson is right, but it's *not* the fault of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau or Defence Minister Sajjan (who I, personally, find immensely unimpressive ... to date) it is, rather, as he says a continuation, since after Sir Robert Borden, of "Canada’s constant failure to actively insert itself in discussions such as this when the lives of our military are at stake"  which "has left us, once more, at the altar with no groom." Mackenzie-King was, as Bercusson describes, him too timid, even St Laurent was content to let Truman dictate our Korean War efforts and it was ditto for Mulroney, Chrétien, Martin and Harper when dealing with the Gulf War, the Balkans and Afghanistan.



It would help if they had something to insert.


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## MarkOttawa (21 Jan 2016)

Consider the Italians:

Have 750 troops in Iraq, plan to send 450 more:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-italy-iraq-idUSKBN0TZ1P520151216

Plus 760 in Afghanistan--US surely appreciates:
http://www.thelocal.it/20151020/italy-willing-to-keep-troops-in-afghanistan

Then the Aussies (and Kiwis):



> About 300 Australians and 100 Kiwis are on the ground at Iraq's Taji military complex, about 30 kilometres north of Baghdad, training the local forces...
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-18/iraq-soldiers-trained-by-australian-adf-nz-mosul-ramadi/7095502



Plus Oz in Afstan, going up to 270:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-australia-idUSKCN0UV11W

Guess who Ash Carter cares about.  Meanwhile Canadians, given the deficiency of our self-centred media, know nothing about what these other countries are doing--esp. compared to Canada.

Mark
Ottawa


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## Good2Golf (21 Jan 2016)

Does anyone know for sure that Carter and Sajjan have not already had, or are scheduled for a bi-lat?  ???

G2G


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## Zoomie (21 Jan 2016)

Is it true that Jordan wasn't invited either - they have committed far more to the effort than Canada.  Maybe it's just a matter of the small guys not getting invited - our commitment is something credible, yet hardly irreplaceable.


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## jmt18325 (21 Jan 2016)

I would agree, were it not for the Netherlands being at the table.


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## PPCLI Guy (21 Jan 2016)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Does anyone know for sure that Carter and Sajjan have not already had, or are scheduled for a bi-lat?  ???
> 
> G2G



They have not yet had a bilat.  They may soon.


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## Good2Golf (22 Jan 2016)

For as like-minded as the seven 'air-striker' nations are, I'd put more weight on Canada having a bi-lat with Uncle Sam to the South and wrestling out the way we'll be doing things in the future.  140's have a justifiably very good rep in the AO; do NLD or ITA have that kind of ISR and Tgt capability?  From news reports and Govt-provided public back briefs, it seems CANSOF embedded trainers are well-involved, how are ITASOF, AUSSOF and DUTCHSOF trg elements doing in Northern Iraq?  Huskys are doling out a lot of gas to the strikers.  Heck, if someone called the upcoming meeting a "Ministerial/Secretarial"-level strike coordination meeting, most people wouldn't even give it a second thought...

:2c:

G2G


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Jan 2016)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> 140's have a justifiably very good rep in the AO



Why, thank you on behalf of all the folks who have rotated in and out to date!  

BUT...speaking personally but on behalf of many, the LRP folks are quite content to remain off the radar in the MSM and average Canadian's eyes.  Most of whom either (1) don't know or (2) don't care what we do.  We're not news-worthy and happy to remain so!   8)

Heck, there are some SC folks who think the 140 does orbits of the airfield as part of the SF!    :rofl:


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Jan 2016)

The LRP community: The RCAF's own Silent Service.  :cheers:


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Jan 2016)

Apparently, we are getting our revenge in for the snub: The three feet of snow about to fall on Washington, D.C. are caused by our Arctic Air Mass driving it right down their throat,  ... _but giving us clear blue skies_.  [  :cold:


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## cupper (22 Jan 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Apparently, we are getting our revenge in for the snub: The three feet of snow about to fall on Washington, D.C. are caused by our Arctic Air Mass driving it right down their throat,  ... _but giving us clear blue skies_.  [  :cold:



And don't think I'm not appreciative of that.

 :endnigh:   anic: :cheers:


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## MilEME09 (22 Jan 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Apparently, we are getting our revenge in for the snub: The three feet of snow about to fall on Washington, D.C. are caused by our Arctic Air Mass driving it right down their throat,  ... _but giving us clear blue skies_.  [  :cold:



Are you suggesting we have some kind of super weapon that controls the weather?

Back on topic, Looking at what the government promised, and whats happening, the government isn't just trying to have their cake, and eat it, but they are trying to give everyone a slice. Satisfying no one in the end of the day but making them selves feel better.


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## George Wallace (22 Jan 2016)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Back on topic, Looking at what the government promised, and whats happening, the government isn't just trying to have their cake, and eat it, but they are trying to give everyone a slice. Satisfying no one in the end of the day but making them selves feel better.



Is that the same cake that goes with the Emperor's new clothes?


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## The Bread Guy (22 Jan 2016)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> ...speaking personally but on behalf of many, the LRP folks are quite content to remain off the radar in the MSM and average Canadian's eyes.  Most of whom either (1) don't know or (2) don't care what we do.  We're not news-worthy and happy to remain so!   8)


Besides, how much would the media get right anyway?  ;D

Re:  the topic, is it a snub?  I remember some saying this wasn't a snub, with others saying those calling it a snub should just get over themselves, there's a war on.  How different are the two events?  #goodforthegoosegoodforthegander ? Discuss.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Jan 2016)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Are you suggesting we have some kind of super weapon that controls the weather?



The Weather Dial is maintained under strict control of the RSM. The one in Meaford is especially touchy. Slight nudges either way allow for the full brunt of all four seasons in a single day.


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## PuckChaser (22 Jan 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> The Weather Dial is maintained under strict control of the RSM. The one in Meaford is especially touchy. Slight nudges either way allow for the full brunt of all four seasons in a single day.



Wainwright is just as sensitive as well, but controlled by the RSM of CMTC.


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## MilEME09 (22 Jan 2016)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Wainwright is just as sensitive as well, but controlled by the RSM of CMTC.



They must only pick RSM's that like Rain and snow then


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## Remius (22 Jan 2016)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> They must only pick RSM's that like Rain and snow then



Not quite.  They pick RSMs that like inflicting rain and snow. Sometimes both in the same sitting.


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## Old Sweat (22 Jan 2016)

It also provides lots of opportunities for the "Greatcoats on! Greatcoats off!" drill.


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