# NCM REG F 14 JAN 05 SELECTION RESULTS ARE NOW IN



## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

Some facts.

1940 people boarded and 125 selected (as fols):

15 Crewman (011)
19 Artillery Field (021)
3 Aviation Systems Technician (514)
3 Avionic Systems Technician (526)
3 Combat Engineer (041)
3 Communicator Research (291)
1 Cook (861)
3 FCS (434)
1 Hull Tech (321)
1 Image Tech (541)
5 Infantry (031)
2 LCIS (227)
3 Mar El (332)
8 Mar Eng (312)
3 Med Tech (737)
2 MSE OP (935)
4 NCIOP (275)
1 Nav Comm (277)
4 NESOP (276)
2 NET (A) (283)
2 NET (C) (284)
2 NET (T) (285)
2 NWT (065)
21 SIG OP (215)
3 Sonar Op (278)
1 Steward (862)
1 Supply Tech (911)
5 Traffic Tech (933)
5 Veh Tech (411)

For the rest of year 2004/2005 that only pretty well leaves some naval trades left to fill and those should be mainly filled through a big push in Halifax.

The unskilled applicants that were selected were in the Sig Op, FD Arty and Crewman trades.  Mostly skilled, semi-skilled and recruit school bypass applicants were selected in the other trades.


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

If you don't see your trade on the list then it wasn't boarded probably because there are no positions for that trade until the new fiscal year.


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## INGm (20 Jan 2005)

Is this the amount of people they recruited for each trade?


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

INGm said:
			
		

> Is this the amount of people they recruited for each trade?



Not sure what you are asking but these are the numbers that were selected for each of the noted trades for this selection board.


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## aesop081 (20 Jan 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> 3 Combat Engineer (041)



Combat engineer is 043.........

The old field engineer trade was 041 before the amalgamation with 042 FEE Op.......

I used to be 041/043


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## INGm (20 Jan 2005)

OK for example it states "5 infantry(031)"........does it mean that they recruited 5 people for that trade?  I hope that will clearify things. ;D


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Combat engineer is 043.........
> 
> The old field engineer trade was 041 before the amalgamation with 042 FEE Op.......
> 
> I used to be 041/043



My bad.


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

INGm said:
			
		

> OK for example it states "5 infantry(031)"........does it mean that they recruited 5 people for that trade?   I hope that will clearify things. ;D



Yes you can say they recruited  5 people for that trade this selection board.


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## Ghost (20 Jan 2005)

they only picked 5 people for 031?

wtf is wrong with the army


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## mdh (20 Jan 2005)

I believe Kincanucks (if I can be presumptuous sir) is referring to the recruit intake for fiscal year 04/05 - fiscal years usually end march 31 and a new fiscal starts for 05/06 with a new intake for NCO open trades.


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## Buzz (20 Jan 2005)

I was hoping to get into 011 this round but was a last minute candidater but possibly next month or April, and am a little suprised about the number they hired. But I guess you can't pack almost 2000 people into St. Jean...or can they?

Question:
If say 4 of those 15 hired don't pass BMQ, will they only hire 4 on short notice that are boarded or will they fill their next quota upon next round?

-Buzz


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## Ghost (20 Jan 2005)

Where do you get this information?


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

Ghost said:
			
		

> they only picked 5 people for 031?
> 
> wtf is wrong with the army



They picked 5 people for infantry this TIME!  There was at least four previous selection boards in which they chose the other infantry positions. Clear as mud?

Please God don't let me have to explain that again.


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

Ghost said:
			
		

> Where do you get this information?



I get this information because I am privy to it.  If you people don't want me to post the selection results then I won't.


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## mdh (20 Jan 2005)

You're a brave man to be a recruiter on this site, sir cheers, mdh


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

Buzz said:
			
		

> I was hoping to get into 011 this round but was a last minute candidater but possibly next month or April, and am a little suprised about the number they hired. But I guess you can't pack almost 2000 people into St. Jean...or can they?
> 
> Question:
> If say 4 of those 15 hired don't pass BMQ, will they only hire 4 on short notice that are boarded or will they fill their next quota upon next round?
> ...




They only hired 15 this time because that is all the positions that are left for this FY.   If they need more then they will probably be added to next FY intake.   Keep mind that these people that were selected may not be going to BMQ until March.


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

mdh said:
			
		

> You're a brave man to be a recruiter on this site, sir cheers, mdh



Thanks.  I thought I could help alleviate some of the mystery of recruiting but it can be a frustrating task sometimes.


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## Michael OLeary (20 Jan 2005)

By all means, please post. But please also provide context. Are these basic recruit applicants "off the street", or are they trade reassignment files, or Component Transfers, or a mix? Arethese selected individuals the next 125 entering St jean? On what serials (if you know) so readers might know the next likely start dates (give or take a few weeks)? How often are these boards conducted, on average, for each trade? Iis this a normal intake for range of trades and numbers per trade? Or is it unique in some way? Why are some trades, the readers are likely waiting for not listed?  Remember you are offering raw data to many people to whom it has no contextual reference.


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## Island Ryhno (20 Jan 2005)

Alas you are a brave man, it opens you up to questions like this, why in the lords name is it so hard to get into armoured if you live in Newfoundland? Has there been mass allergic reactions between saltwater skin and black berets   I'm just wondering if you are privy to that as well, that's the trade I'm really interested in but every time I mention it to a recruiter I get the old puffed out cheeks, I don't know kinda look. Any thoughts? Thanks


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## Buzz (20 Jan 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> They only hired 15 this time because that is all the positions that are left for this FY.   If they need more then they will probably be added to next FY intake.   Keep mind that these people that were selected may not be going to BMQ until March.




Excellent.   But why would I be told that I may end up getting an "offer" next month (February) when the fiscal year doens't start until April 1st?

Also, when you say selected..do you mean "merit list" or "offer"? Just need clarification....Thanks in advance
-Buzz


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## Air Force Tech (20 Jan 2005)

First of all, if you don't have a profile, don't question the credibility of anyone, you're not credible yourself.  Secondly, in the short time that I have been visiting this site, I have found that almost all of my questions could be answered just by reading.  I have had very little need to post as most questions have already been asked and answered if you bother to take the time to actually use the search function.  As many reliable and knowledgeable people there are that FREELY share their knowledge with EVERYONE here,  sadly, there are even more posters here that whine, and bitch, and complain to no constructive purpose.  This is NOT a frustration venting forum.  It is a knowledge resource.  Wading through all the posts of people who can't take the responsibility upon themselves to help themselves is the only frustration I have.  I realize that this is not the thread to post a message like this, however, we seem to have some people here who don't understand plain English.  Enough of my rant.  In my experience,  KINCANUCKS has been a reliable source of info which is verifiable with your local recruiting centre.  BTW, if you failed to read his  profile, he has 23 years of military experience which most here cannot match. Give the guy some credit,  I would hate to see Army.ca lose such a valuable source of info.  

P.S.  Mods,  if you don't care to see this post here,  feel free to move it or delete it as you see fit.  (not that you need my permission) Also, on another topic,  everyone waits to get into the military to some degree or other, quit asking how long it will take for this or that.  Suck it up and tough it out.  Everyone else does.  Last thought:  The recruiting centre is your best source of information, use it. :


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## Buzz (20 Jan 2005)

I did use the recruiting centre for my source of info and was just relaying what I was told. Also, I hope you don't think I questioning the credibility of anyone on here.   Would that be a credible quote?  Anyway I was just hoping for a bit of eloboration and I appreciate the information that I have gotten so far..been very helpful...and will continue to "suck it up" as it was might as well be put. 

-Buzz


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## Air Force Tech (20 Jan 2005)

My intention was not to single out anyone in particular and upon further reflection, I probably should have waited to post my opinion a little longer as I was quite irate at the time.  *note to self*   Anyhow,  that's all I'll say on the subject in this thread.


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

All very good points I am reading.

No applicant should ever leave a recruiting centre or detachment not knowing what is going to happen to his/her file.   Unfortunately, as I can ascertain from the many disgruntled posts on this forum, the opposite is sometimes happening across the country.   Some of you are being fed some god awful BS and others are being outright lied to.   A word of advice to all applicants if you don't understand exactly what the next step is then don't leave the office until you have a warm fuzzy feeling and if you don't trust the information you are getting then ask to speak to someone higher.   That is your right.

The list I have posted is a mix of component transfers (CTs), raw recruits and re-enrollees (ex Reg F).   Therefore, those selected were unskilled, recruit school bypass (RSBP) (mixture of CTs and ex-Reg F), semi-skilled (those that have applicable education) and skilled applicants (CTs or ex-Reg F).

These selection boards happens 3 or 4 times a year now.   So if you see that only 3 Infantry were selected and it is Jan then perhaps that is it for the FY.   I don't know when these selected people (some of them don't have to) are going to St. Jean (probably Feb or Mar).

This intake is not the last one as there will another one to fill up the deficient naval trades.   There may or may not be early intake for FY 05/06.   We at the pointy end are as much in the dark about that as many of you are.

One point I would like to hit on is the competitiveness of joining the military now (yes even Infantry).   The applicant with Grade 10 and no work experience is not likely to get selected or perhaps even not processed.   We are looking for the brightest and best for every trade now.   That is not to say that the Grade 10s won't get selected but it will be far and between.   When you fill out your application make sure you fill out every section, don't get your friends to write your letters of reference and show us that you really want the job.   This is because while   every Canadian citizen has the right to apply to the CF that does not mean they are going to get processed.   We now assess every application for merit based on the amount of schooling, work experience, activities and physical fitness and only the highest rated ones will get a kick at the cat.   The others? Well we will get to those later, maybe.

Every person merited listed is assigned a military potential (MP) score from 3 to 9.   Anyone below a 3 is unsuitable and won't be merit listed.   The applicants are selected in the following priority: Skilled, Semi-Skilled, RSBP and then Unskilled.   So a Skilled applicant rated 5 or 6 could realistically be selected over an unskilled applicant rated a 7 or 8.   Fair? Probably not but it is cheaper to enrol/transfer a skilled than an unskilled applicant.

Remember a lot of the trades will fill up early and at the end of the year we are still looking for Signal Operators, Crewman and all the Navy trades.   That is when we start looking at the lower rated applicants.

I have probably created more questions but it is hoped that have answered some others.   If you want to know where you have been merited or what your chances are then just PM me with your last name and CFRC/D and I will honestly tell what your chances are.   I can only look at Reg F NCMs.

I am not going divulge who I am or where I work(so stop asking) but rest assured I know what I speak of.

Cheers to all and good luck.


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## Buzz (20 Jan 2005)

kincanucks, thank you very much! It's one of those things where I can't make it to the recruiting office at any time, rural, but I can certainly call. So, when I call and get what I need to know....absorb it...translate it....it always sparks new questions. But from what you posted it helped a lot in shedding some light and new ray of hope. hahaha thanks..

-Buzz


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## Michael OLeary (20 Jan 2005)

kincanuck, thank you very much for that explanation.


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## Pencil Tech (20 Jan 2005)

Kincanucks, your posts sure are interesting. Just a question, could one assume then that an applicant would have a good chance of getting in quicker if they applied for a naval trade, even if they were unskilled (assuming I guess that the CFAT showed they might have the aptitude)?


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## kincanucks (20 Jan 2005)

Pencil Tech said:
			
		

> Kincanucks, your posts sure are interesting. Just a question, could one assume then that an applicant would have a good chance of getting in quicker if they applied for a naval trade, even if they were unskilled (assuming I guess that the CFAT showed they might have the aptitude)?



That would be a good assumption as long as the trade is one that is in distressed like NESOP, Sonar Op or one of the tech trades.


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## jarko (21 Jan 2005)

Thank you very much for the post:

When do the calls start being made to the recruits that got in??


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## kincanucks (21 Jan 2005)

jarko said:
			
		

> Thank you very much for the post:
> 
> When do the calls start being made to the recruits that got in??



Some have started already and the rest should know by the middle of next week.


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## kincanucks (21 Jan 2005)

It is important to note that the latest selections for Infantry went to Francos only.  Which is surprising because there are hardly ever any vacancies in the Van Doos.


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## Ghost (21 Jan 2005)

So what's an average score for military potential?


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## kincanucks (21 Jan 2005)

Ghost said:
			
		

> So what's an average score for military potential?



Average is 5.


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## kincanucks (21 Jan 2005)

If you are going to send me additional PMs please make sure that you always include your surname and CFRC/D so I know you are as I don't keep your messages.  It is hard getting old.


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## Air Force Tech (21 Jan 2005)

Kincanucks,

Thanks for the helpful info!  Do you know the date of the first selection board of the next fiscal year? (05/06, sometime in April I assume) If so, could you please post it here for all who would like to know?


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## kincanucks (21 Jan 2005)

Air Force Wannabe said:
			
		

> Kincanucks,
> 
> Thanks for the helpful info!   Do know the date of the first selection board of the next fiscal year? (05/06, sometime in April I assume) If so, could you please post it here for all who would like to know?



You are very welcome.  There is a rumour that they may start selecting for FY 05/06 in March but when I hear for sure I will post it here.


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## kincanucks (23 Jan 2005)

_Every person merited listed is assigned a military potential (MP) score from 3 to 9.  Anyone below a 3 is unsuitable and won't be merit listed.  The applicants are selected in the following priority: Skilled, Semi-Skilled, RSBP and then Unskilled.  So a Skilled applicant rated 5 or 6 could realistically be selected over an unskilled applicant rated a 7 or 8.  Fair? Probably not but it is cheaper to enrol/transfer a skilled than an unskilled applicant._

Forgot one other point and that is the date you are merit listed is important.  In that if there are, say, 10 people going for Infantry and they are all rated MP 6 and there are only 6 positions then the selection would be by merit listed date. Clear as mud?  Cheers.


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## copecowboy (24 Jan 2005)

is there still a fair chance somone with an mp5 would eventuley get in infantry these days?


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## kincanucks (24 Jan 2005)

copecowboy said:
			
		

> is there still a fair chance somone with an mp5 would eventuley get in infantry these days?



If there a lot of positions then yes.


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## P Kaye (24 Jan 2005)

>> 1940 people boarded and 125 selected
Wow... I had no idea the reg-force army was so competative to get into.
Does anybody know the annual national ratio of applications to positions?


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## kincanucks (24 Jan 2005)

P Kaye said:
			
		

> >> 1940 people boarded and 125 selected
> Wow... I had no idea the reg-force army was so competative to get into.
> Does anybody know the annual national ratio of applications to positions?



Sorry the numbers are a liitle misleading.  Most of those 1940 applicants were going for trades that weren't open this time.  Normally, there are 2.5 applicants for every position.


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## Tracker (27 Jan 2005)

Sometimes a recruiter will give you a half answer because he does not want to give you the wrong info.   This happened to me today, actually several weeks ago but it caught up to me today.   I gave someone the wrong information, he made a few decisions based on this bad info and now he is understandably angry with me and thinks I'm dishonest.   I apologized and gave him my supervisors contact info and encouraged him to call and complain.   I can't take back my mistake but hopefully he will find satisfaction in talking with my boss.   I will be more careful in the future and will ensure that I don't make this mistake again, but now you, the applicant, can understand why you sometimes get half answers and "I can't say" from recruiters. 

As I have said in previous posts and others in the recruiting world have said, if you are not comfortable with the answer you received, ask someone else.


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## Meridian (27 Jan 2005)

Its just a frustration of how the system is setup, and clearly there isnt much being done to change it, as its been the same for at least the last 2 years....  but thats any govnt dept for ya 

Kinacanucks:

1) How competitive is the DEO process right now? Similar 2.5 to one position?

2) What is the "military potential" based off of.. I mean, for the majority who dont have cadets or reserve or reg experience... what goes into that decision, surely there is a set standard way to calculate it?

3) Officers are assessed on leadership potential as well...  same question as 2? Is thi sjust taking into account team captain, volunteer/superivsory experience?

4)  Who "sits" on these boards...  is this just the CO of CFRG who decides when this will all happen? DO random officers get pulled to make these calls or is it just a set group who work at CFRG who meet for a few days and decide?

5) Transcripts...  esp for DEO candidates... how are these considered....  and if I supply my High school grades with my Uni grades... well what value is my high schoolg rades.. and in the grand scheme of thigns, how much do grades really matter?


Muchos Gracias.
Hopefully Ive been specific enough.


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## kincanucks (27 Jan 2005)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Its just a frustration of how the system is setup, and clearly there isnt much being done to change it, as its been the same for at least the last 2 years....   but thats any govnt dept for ya
> 
> Kinacanucks:
> 
> ...



It is KINCANUCKS.

1.  Very competitive.  105 good files for 2 Log O positions last boards.  65 good files for approx 35 Infantry O positions.  Normally about 4 to 1.

2. How you respnd to the interview questions, your activities, physical fitness and any leadership/management experience you may have had.

3. DEOs are asked the same questions as the NCM with more emphasis on demonstrated leadership and knowledge of leadership.  A DEO had better know current affairs and demonstrate very good knowledge of the CF.

4. DEO Boards right? Officers from different CFRC/Ds  are part of the boards, along with a representative from the occupation.  A staff officer from CFRG HQ runs the whole thing.

5. As mentioned in a previous post HS subjects are important for some DEO occupations that may require a higher science or math ability.  And that ability may not be evident in your degree.  Also as mentioned before academics count for 20 per cent of the DEO boards.


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## Meridian (28 Jan 2005)

Sorry, KINCanucks 

Thanks for the answers.

One last one:  For DEO boards, you mentioned it was 4-1...  Are there different "results" you can get back from a board? Ie "Junk this file, Keep it for the next board, Highlight for next board, Selected"?

What I mean by this is, do files just keep getting boarded, or do they get tossed as soon as they go through one and do not get selected?


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## kincanucks (28 Jan 2005)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Sorry, KINCanucks
> 
> Thanks for the answers.
> 
> ...



Files can be selected, wait listed (if one of the selected turns it down) or not selected in competition (NSIC).   Files that are NSIC are told that they can try again next time or forget it you will never be a @@@@@ try something else.


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## spenco (28 Jan 2005)

What is the general criteria for a file to be considered NSIC?  Is it just a poor interview?


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## kincanucks (29 Jan 2005)

spenco said:
			
		

> What is the general criteria for a file to be considered NSIC?   Is it just a poor interview?



NSIC = little or no leadership/supervisory experience, low university marks, low CFAT score, low motivation for occupation, etc.


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## Island Ryhno (30 Jan 2005)

Hi Kincanucks, I noticed yesterday that there were postings all around the job boards from DND, including, get this....Armoured, oh finally there is a santa clause. Do you know if this is part of the "New 5000" or something else. Any idea when the selection board relative to those postings will be, thanks for any help. Cheers


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## lostlittle1 (30 Jan 2005)

Sir

I am up for compulsory reassignment and am waiting on my PERS file.  When would be the optimum time to go, provided of course I get my PERS file from Kingston,  to the BPSO to have the most trade choices?

 I am hoping to go 565 ACS and I was in a 400 series trade.  End of March? Mid April? What will the BPSO be looking for with regards to matching my trade choice with me (eg...I have welding experience, would that count for anything?) 

Any other advice you can give me about this situation or any advice at all would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks Sir.


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## kincanucks (30 Jan 2005)

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Hi Kincanucks, I noticed yesterday that there were postings all around the job boards from DND, including, get this....Armoured, oh finally there is a santa clause. Do you know if this is part of the "New 5000" or something else. Any idea when the selection board relative to those postings will be, thanks for any help. Cheers



Job postings are done all the time and are not related in any way to how many jobs are available.  In fact you will see these "dumb" postings even when the occupation is filled. I say dumb because they sometimes mislead people.  For example, 100 drivers needed in Calgary.  There has not been any official direction given on when we will start recruiting extra to eventually meet the 5000.  As usual it is always easier to say you want something then it is to actually get it.


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## kincanucks (30 Jan 2005)

lostlittle1 said:
			
		

> Sir
> 
> I am up for compulsory reassignment and am waiting on my PERS file.   When would be the optimum time to go, provided of course I get my PERS file from Kingston,   to the BPSO to have the most trade choices?
> 
> ...


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