# Reserve medics in Afghanistan?



## Hunter (11 Sep 2005)

I was wondering if there are any reserve medics in Afghanistan, or any others that have been or are planning to go.  I was wondering what was involved in the workup training, how long the workup training was, and how they were employed during the tour itself.  

I know there has been info posted elsewhere on this site, but I'm interested in info specific to reserve medics.

Thanks.


----------



## Donut (11 Sep 2005)

Hunter, AFAIK there's one HS res mbr in A'stan, an RN in K-town.

There are some TAV/HLTA backfill staff checks out for a December HLTA block, Medic positions seem to be restricted to QL5 reg equivalent civi licensed clinically current paramedics (say that 10 times fast). I know nominations, including res mbrs, have gone up the chain; I'm not sure where they are now.

There is still (heard it first over a decade ago) discussion about HS Res med-a getting bison courses to deploy as amb drivers, but from what I've heard that's still in the discussion phase.

Not more then 24 hours after I posted a question on this topic, my former Chief called me "So, you wanna go to Kandahar?"  I don't even think he reads this board.

In 1995, for the magical mystery tour (I'm pretty sure the last time they tried to deploy more then a pittance of Res Med-A) there were over 40 pers competing for about 16 positions, split between 1RCHA and 2VP.  The 2VP group were to be employed the same as there Reg F counterparts.  At 1 RCHA, we were supposed to be jr members of the amb crew.  Workups were May to Aug, and then we joined our units for October/December departures.

It sounds like the workups are getting longer (a year in Gagetown is floating around), and for HS types are reportedly including a couple weeks on car in Vancouver and stint in VGH with CFTTC (W), but I've yet to see anyone but the PCP students in uniform on car, and the only people I've seen regularly at trauma west are the regular staff and PAs on their rotations.

So, don't hold your breath.  I'm sure once it turns into an ongoing, I've done half my BE in Kandahar type operations, things will open up for some trades, I'm just not sure it's going to be including ours.


Stay safe,

DF


----------



## medicineman (11 Sep 2005)

The topic came up again this weekend at the 4 Health Services Group  Ops conference - as it stands, unless there is some sort of waiver in place or the person has a Reg Force equivalency, it isn't likely at this point.  We did discuss the possibility of getting Bison quals for people so they can go over in a "useful" capacity (I'm not slagging anyone down BTW).  Problem is availbility of courses and vehicles, since an awful lot of Bisons are going into retrofit right now.  There's also a rectally hidden insect bothering people about the minimum time qualified on the vehicle before the amb qualification gets written in, etc.  I think it bounced around for about 15 minutes, was put on the backburner for a bit, then came back up again later on.  A couple of the RSS guys were really pushing for it.  

Long story short - watch and shoot for now.  Crossing your fingers might help somewhat as well.

MM


----------



## Armymedic (11 Sep 2005)

2 answers to your questions, from my experience:

1. Few and far between

2. Unless you have a Reg force QL 5 equivilency (what ever THAT is....) don't hold your breath.

I have seen only 1 res medic deployed in a medical role (not PA, or other CFHS) in 3 tours I have been on, and heard about 2 others on other deployments. 





			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> There's also a rectally hidden insect bothering people about the minimum time qualified on the vehicle before the amb qualification gets written in, etc.   I think it bounced around for about 15 minutes, was put on the backburner for a bit, then came back up again later on.



Time on veh to get amb qual...total BS...there is nothing on the docs for it if you are a medic to start. I know, I checked when I ran a course for the sole purpose of qualifying Bison amb drivers for Op Pall Roto 13. We had troops who never saw a Bison before the course, and the next time they touched one afterward was in theater, while they drove it.


----------



## Hunter (12 Sep 2005)

Thanks for the responses lads, I really appreciate your insights.  

I'm hoping to get on a tour sometime in 2006-07.  I don't harbour any illusions of being a medic when I go, I would be happy to do whatever is required.  Ideally I would get qualified on the Bison and G-wagon so I could be a driver, and maybe help out in a clinical setting.

Thanks again!

Hunter out.


----------



## medicineman (14 Sep 2005)

Time on veh to get amb qual...total BS...there is nothing on the docs for it if you are a medic to start. I know, I checked when I ran a course for the sole purpose of qualifying Bison amb drivers for Op Pall Roto 13. We had troops who never saw a Bison before the course, and the next time they touched one afterward was in theater, while they drove it.
[/quote]

Interesting - just talking to transport and I was told it was one year on the SMP or armoured vehicle concerned before the amb qualification can be added.  Transport Directive 556 was what was quoted to me and that was regardless of whether or not you were a medic.

MM


----------



## Armymedic (14 Sep 2005)

I'll look that up when I am at work, but I think that is the reg about carrying passengers, where you are supposed to have X number of hours before troop carrying quals be added.


----------



## D-n-A (14 Sep 2005)

On my driver wheel and the transport NCO at my old unit, we were told that after having your 404s for a year, and having 1000kms on the vehicle your qualified on, aswell as a good driving record(ie no accidents) you can get your troop carrying qual. Dunno if its any different for medics thougn.


----------



## medicineman (15 Sep 2005)

This goes back a few years, but I seem to remember the same thing - I needed a year on the larger vehicles(MLVW's and such) before the troop carrying annotation was added.  I called the tpt guy's here when I got back from my conference and told me that IAW with the directive I mentioned, you needed a year, good driving record , know the laws of the province you were in regarding emergency vehicle use, and even said you had to be re-tested on the vehicle.  Also the usual stuff about the first aid qualifications and such ( which oddly enough, I notice doesn't tend to be adhered to well).  

I actually had a laugh one day when the MSE Safety guy here got really indignant that I had a civvy pattern amb qualification on my 416's - he said only MSE pers were entitled.  Odd I said, as an MSE guy was the one who put it there after testing me.  That and I had the ambulance driver's course to boot as well...

Anyhow, hopefully something positive will come out of the debate of getting Reserve Medics out and doing their jobs operationally - like some boots on the ground (or in the driver's hole, etc).

MM


----------



## Fraser.g (24 Nov 2005)

Here is the latest staff check from Ottawa in regards to TFA

From my read of it, there seems to be a requirement for increased reserve presence during the next three years.

GF

1.  TASK FORCE AFGANISTAN (TFA) is moving from Kabul to Kandahar.  Due to
> the nature of the operation and the ongoing combantant activities in this
> region, be aware that the casualty rate and personal risk is higher than
> during any previous operation.  Canada is responsible to provide Role 1 H
> Svcs to the Brigade Group (BG), and has Lead Nation (LN) status and
> responsiblity for Role 3 (surgical svcs) health services to the
> multinational force for Roto 2 and 5.  The Role 3 facility will be a
> Multi-National hospital with partner nations of CA, UK and the
> Netherlands.  This facility will provide health care to the troop
> contributing nations (TCN) within our area of responsibility (AOR), and
> may include the provision of limited support to other individuals in the
> AOR.  During Roto 3 & 4, Canada will not be LN but in partnership with the
> other TCNs, is still responsible for contributing to the overall manning
> of the Role 3 facility, as well as the normal H Svcs for the Cdn BG.  
> 
> 2.  Reserve participation is essential to sustain this operation.  The
> attached Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E) identifies the
> occupations employed with the Health Svcs organizations that must be
> sustained from now through 2008, and includes the approximate schedule of
> training and deployment.  Generally, pre-deployment training is scheduled
> 1-2 months before the deployment and may be 3-6 wks in duration depending
> on whether the position is with the BG or the Role 3 facility.  Some
> aspects of pre-deployment training can be taken out of sequence with the
> intended rotation, but every roto has a 1-3 week mission specific and
> medical team building training ex for all mbrs of that roto.  Rotations
> are six months in length, but some clinical occupations in the Role 3
> faclilty may be split in blocks of 2 or 3 months.  Technical Assistance
> Visits (TAV) are blocks of 3-6 wks during months 2-5 of a rotation that
> may have to be filled to cover off leave.
> 
> 3.  The CF H Svcs Gp Commander's intent is for Reserves to fill up to 20%
> of the TO&E for all rotos.  To maximize the opportunity for members to
> particpate, the TO&E provides the schedule of training and deployments for
> the next two years.  Members may select approximately when and for how
> long they wish to deploy, and any issues or shortfalls that must be
> resolved prior to the deployment.  Each occupation's senior Practice
> Leader in consultation with the member, the Res Adv staff and H Svcs Ops
> will then plan and coordinate TFA sustainment utilizing both Reg and Res F
> members.  By providing a long term schedule, both the members and staff
> will have time to plan how and when to conduct the activities and training
> necessary to prepare for the deployment.  Although the CF has just been
> authorized to PLAN out until 2008, as CF H Svcs has had these occupations
> continuously deployed in various theatres since 1992, it is unlikely that
> if a member committed to a Feb 08 depl, that there would be no ongoing
> military operation somewhere.  Members will be on a Cl C contract for
> pre-deployment trg for their deployment.  In addition, while in theatre
> members are entitled to some tax-free and financial benefits.
> 
> 4.  Members must have the correct MOSID/MOC as identified in the TO&E (ie
> a nurse must be a MOSID 00195 Nursing Officer not a Med Tech).  Med Techs
> must be Reg F QL 3 (through completion of Enhancement trg in early summer
> 06 + hold a civilian PCP qual) or be QL5 qualified.   If a member requrires
> a voluntary occupational transfer (VOT), please identify this and this
> process will be expedited.  In addition, please identify those with hidden
> skill sets (ie. Med Techs who are civilian Lab Techs, or Dental Techs who
> are also civilian Dental Hygenists).  
>


----------



## Armymedic (25 Nov 2005)

oh god, my head hurts.


----------



## Fraser.g (26 Nov 2005)

LOL 
See ya there

GF


----------



## medicineman (28 Nov 2005)

Got the up dated TO&E for TFA ROTO 1 - there are a few reservists on the nominal roll, but they seem to be employed in non-Health Services roles as drivers for someone or other.

MM


----------



## Fraser.g (28 Nov 2005)

Re-read the message I posted. It is for ROTO 2 onward to roto 5
GF


----------



## MapleLeaf4Evr (28 Nov 2005)

When is ROTO 2 set to go over?


----------



## Fraser.g (29 Nov 2005)

1)  TFA Roto 2 Aug 06 - Jan 07;
2)  TFA Roto 3 Feb 07 - Jul 07;
3)  TFA Roto 4 Aug 07 - Jan 08; and
4)  TFA Roto 5 Feb 08 - Jul 08.

GF


----------



## Armymedic (29 Nov 2005)

With the insertion of the Role 3 Facility in Kandahar in Feb, I can see all sorts of medical Res F positions for future missions, particularly in that support role. Can't see too many Reg QL5 and up med techs being replaced by Res F Med Techs. 

But any experience will be good for all who go over.


----------



## Fraser.g (30 Nov 2005)

With advanced training attained on Civi Street such as ICP and ACP and hospital practica under their belts, I can see it being feasible to bring in Reserve Med As to augment the Reg Force Cpls.

With the proper work up and pre-deployment Delta training there should be no problem. The traumatized or injured body is the same. The major difference is that the Civi trained medics will have more experience with medical emergencies and real time trauma than their regular force counterparts. Remember that most ICP and ACP medics in the reserves work the streets as a full time job. I see the learning going both ways.

GF


----------

