# RFT



## scoobydoo (15 Dec 2007)

I am sorry if this has been mentioned some where on another thread............ I have been hearing that the military is getting rid of RFT program.. I know there was success with RFT..I apologize for repeating myself.. but someone was asking about it... I tried asking at the recruiting center they did not know for sure... I would appreciate it if someone could tell me.


----------



## machine463 (19 Dec 2007)

No they will not stop the RFT program, so far the program is working very good but there might be some minor change as example; you will have to do a minimum on the PT test to be eligible to go on RFT if you do not meet that you will be release right away


----------



## Disenchantedsailor (19 Dec 2007)

Just a bit of a bcakgrounder, when I arrived in ST-Jean for IAP/BOTP in August RFT Platoon was Company Strength, the scuttlebut around the school this fall is that RFT candidates must reach certain minimuns to be determined by PSP to be eligible to go to RFT. Keep in mind the change is still scuttlebut


----------



## danchapps (19 Dec 2007)

To give an idea as to how much they are NOT going to get rid of RFT (also goes to show how packed St-Jean is) they are currently setting up mod-trailers for use as housing. Now from what I've heard on base it is for the PAT/PAR platoons, or if you ask someone else it's for RFT. Either way there are so many folks in those platoons they need to accomodate them. I very much doubt they are getting rid of RFT though, it is in fact working wonders by prepping recruits both physically AND mentally for platoon placement.



18


----------



## X-mo-1979 (19 Dec 2007)

RFT has been going for a while now.Has anyone seen any studies in reference to:

-Number who fail off RFT(release)
-number who join onto a BMQ serial and fail/release
-avg time spent on RFT

Also be interested if the CF are planning on tracking these individuals over the next few years to see their progress.


----------



## Michael OLeary (19 Dec 2007)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Also be interested if the CF are planning on tracking these individuals over the next few years to see their progress.



Is there a precedent to do so? What groups do we track now over time to measure effectiveness of any intake or training method?


----------



## X-mo-1979 (19 Dec 2007)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Is there a precedent to do so? What groups do we track now over time to measure effectiveness of any intake or training method?



Just wondering if any studies are in place where it was a fairly new idea.
Like anything new I would think that there would be some analysis done,to see if the idea is worth it or not.
Analysis isnt much good without the follow up,unless they look at BMQ graduation as the endstate.(Which would be a flawed system IMHO)

As for other groups I couldnt say.

Be interesting to see numbers/charts.
Hopefully someone has a Powerpoint on it somewhere.


----------



## danchapps (19 Dec 2007)

From seeing faces around the Mega I can tell that RFT burns through a lot of candidates, however, with that being said I don't have much time to make nice with a lot of the RFT folk (I know a couple were from my platoon, but I don't ask the turnaround). I agree, it would be nice to see some stats on it in the long run. Those that made it sure work their tails off once they hit platoon.



18


----------



## machine463 (21 Dec 2007)

The new trailer are for PAT/PAR only the RFT are staying on the 12 floors of the blue sector, because the stairs are part of their training.  And for all the stats yes we are keeping track of it.  For number it is pretty easy we loose 1/4 voluntary release and about 1/3 medical, the remainder at about 95% do pass the completed PT test inside 2 months.  After one month about 95% of them all pass the VO2 max(Running Part) portion of the test and after that is push ups.  So the program do work and I don't think RFT will be leaving soon especially when this years alone they bought treadmill and weight for about 250 000$
That was it for me have a good Christmas and stay in shape


----------



## scoobydoo (21 Dec 2007)

Thanks for the replies.. I appreciate it.. When I was in St Jean I had instructors tell us that RFT will be weaned out... I am glad to hear that it is not..It works I have seen it first hand... I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.


----------



## danchapps (21 Dec 2007)

Thanks for clearing that up for me machine. You know how things get morphed in St-Jean to something they are not. And thanks for the stats too.




18


----------



## X-mo-1979 (21 Dec 2007)

machine463 said:
			
		

> The new trailer are for PAT/PAR only the RFT are staying on the 12 floors of the blue sector, because the stairs are part of their training.  And for all the stats yes we are keeping track of it.  For number it is pretty easy we loose 1/4 voluntary release and about 1/3 medical, the remainder at about 95% do pass the completed PT test inside 2 months.  After one month about 95% of them all pass the VO2 max(Running Part) portion of the test and after that is push ups.  So the program do work and I don't think RFT will be leaving soon especially when this years alone they bought treadmill and weight for about 250 000$
> That was it for me have a good Christmas and stay in shape



Are these hard statistics or your observations?
Do you happen to have any hard stats from any study done?


----------



## machine463 (21 Dec 2007)

Yes we do have all the stats in our office.  We are the one keeping the stats up to date with the help of the PSP staff


----------



## tcp (8 Jan 2008)

Howdy Folks,

I am wondering if anyone knows how RFT PL works?  I understand that it's to assist in bringing recruits up to the basic military fitness standards, but does anyone know exactly how it works?  Is it simply the same program but with extra PT?  Or, is it mostly PT and only once you can meet the physical requirements do you take on the regular learning program? Any idea on what a typical day would look like?  

I'm very curious about this initiative, as well as how well it has been working.

Tony


----------



## George Wallace (8 Jan 2008)

This topic PT Testing Information For All New CF Members Headed to BMQ or IAP/BOTP  has most of the answers.


----------



## HItorMiss (8 Jan 2008)

As well Here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52772.0.html


----------



## tcp (9 Jan 2008)

Excellent posts!  

Thank-you gentlemen!


----------



## leroi (3 Mar 2008)

Hi,
I'm a new MWSABMQ (Mother-With-Son-at-BMQ); it's my own coinage/I'm a civilian and sure appreciate your website. Just wondering what happens when a recruit sustains minor injuries preventing him from being able to perform PT. As in, shin splints with lower leg and foot swelling.  Does the recruit get sent to RFT PO? Or does the recruit get SBH (Sent-Back-Home).

Thank you for defending the rest of us Canadians (and keep up the good work inventing new acronyms to keep us civilians on our toes)!


----------



## danchapps (3 Mar 2008)

I believe it depends on how long he will be laid up for. If he heals fast, he may, depending on the platoon staff, stay on his course. He most likely will be placed on PAT if his condition fails to improve. It is my understanding that only when someone is medically unfit for training, and I mean seriously messed up, then they will send them home. I hope this helps. If you want you can PM me if you have any questions. (I'm a recent grad, some of it is still in my head) Keep up the good work on the acronyms, we know the military doesn't have enough of em.


----------



## stealthylizard (22 Mar 2008)

I'm on RFT right now, 2nd phase.  The stats we were given is that about 25% VR or MR during RFT.  97% of those that stick with the program will return back to a platoon, but of those numbers, less than 25% will make it to graduation.  I don't have any hard facts to back it up, that is just what we were told by our staff.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (22 Mar 2008)

Wow.
Quite the different contrast of info.

If stealthylizard's stats are correct I really don't see the feasibility of RFT platoon.


----------



## Pea (22 Mar 2008)

Every candidate that I was on RFT with, that passed RFT and was put on platoon, graduated and have now moved on to trades training. In my time there, we lost about a handful to VR and MR, but I'd say (rough numbers) 20/25 in my time there have now graduated and moved on. A bunch of them are now posted and preparing for their first deployment. From my experience, it's a program that really works.


----------



## derael (22 Mar 2008)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> I'm on RFT right now, 2nd phase.  The stats we were given is that about 25% VR or MR during RFT.  97% of those that stick with the program will return back to a platoon, but of those numbers, less than 25% will make it to graduation.  I don't have any hard facts to back it up, that is just what we were told by our staff.



In my own opinion...your staff will tell your a lot of things. Stuff like that is usually just apart of "the game". It's hard for me to believe that guys in RFT who have been there for 2 months would be more likely to VR, after facing and defeating such adversity, than a normal candidate would.

It's possible that stat could be correct but most platoons do not have less than a 50% pass rate. My IAP platoon was a special case with A LOT of VRs and our pass rate was 50% maybe a tad higher. It seemed like most platoons where pushing at least 60-70%.


----------



## aesop081 (22 Mar 2008)

derael said:
			
		

> In my own opinion...your staff will tell your a lot of things. Stuff like that is usually just apart of "the game". It's hard for me to believe that guys in RFT who have been there for 2 months would be more likely to VR, after facing and defeating such adversity, than a normal candidate would.
> 
> It's possible that stat could be correct but most platoons do not have less than a 50% pass rate. My IAP platoon was a special case with A LOT of VRs and our pass rate was 50% maybe a tad higher. It seemed like most platoons where pushing at least 60-70%.



Your statistics are just as anectdotal as his. Unless you bring up available and scientificaly obtained "hard data" *both of you * can fire numbers back and forth until you are blue in the face.

*_Milnet.ca staff edit for site policy_*


----------



## derael (22 Mar 2008)

I think I've already clarified that point stating it was my own opinion. Of course its not hard data, its only my personal observations so of course no one should take my words as gospel....however I think that theres no reason a person that has been through RFT should think he is more likely to fail on course than someone who was not in RFT.


----------



## armyvern (22 Mar 2008)

All right,

Here's some actual REAL info, accurate as of 11 Feb from an email that I recd:



> Subject:   Recruit School  -  BMQ Gen info
> 
> Good Day,
> 
> ...


----------



## armyvern (22 Mar 2008)

Now, with some accurate statistics & info as to what is actually oncurring on ground instead of speculation ...

I'll lock this topic up; there's plenty of others running on RFT.

Also, please note that the email source makes no mention of any impending move to do away with RFT, rather he noted only the addition of PAR Pl.

The usual caveats apply if you having something significant to add.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## scoobydoo (20 May 2008)

so is it official that the recruits now have to do at least 50% to go on RFT? Is it still in the works.


----------



## HItorMiss (20 May 2008)

RFT exisit for those who fail to meet the minium requirements for Physical Fitness apon arrival to BMQ.

So yes it exist but I do not know what you mean by 50%


----------



## scoobydoo (20 May 2008)

what I mean by 50% is that a person must pass 2 out of 4 to go to RFT.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (20 May 2008)

Maybe you should go back and read the links.


----------



## scoobydoo (20 May 2008)

Hi, I was reading the other links... maybe I misunderstood them.. this is the link where I got the information.

ubject:   Recruit School  -  BMQ Gen info 

Good Day,

Based on ref, for your general information, listed below are a few "real life facts" that are actually taking place at CFLRS. 

...

As opposed to common belief, BMQ is 14 weeks long all together. Week Zero is when they complete all of the admin process and.... conduct their CF Expres. Then the 13 week BMQ training starts.

Recruit Fitness Training (RFT):  This is a platoon especially designed to help those who fail CF Expres during week Zero.
RFT Program is 90 days long (3 phases of 30 days).   

Here's how it works:   
If successful after 30 days:  Recruit rejoins a platoon that is in week 2 of training;
If successful after 60 days:  Recruit rejoins a platoon that is in week 3 of training; and
If successful after 90 days:  Recruit rejoins a platoon that is in week 4 of training.

If unsuccessful after 90 days:  Recruit is released from the CF.

Platoons consist of 65 recruits:  Average is 7-8 PT failures from get go. (Of note, last week they had a platoon with 15 failures at week Zero...)

Currently there are 105 Recruits on RFT.  (This is not counting the 300 of those on PAT or PAR)
PAT:  Personnel Awaiting Training due to recourse, TRB review, or injury.
PAR:  Personnel Awaiting Release (new to the school).

No more than 5 years ago annual Recruit success rate (# of graduates) was about 97%, now it is down to 65%.

500 Recruits currently attending training at sister school in Borden. Borden cannot accommodate RFT, therefore, those recruits are transferred to St-Jean to undertake their RFT.

Current proposal would be for recruits to achieve 50% of the required standard on CF Expres. If below that percentage at week Zero, then they would immediately be released. Some recruits are unable to achieve "one" push up, and others, unable to achieve "stage one" of the shuttle run.

CFLRS is trying very hard to come up with ways of instilling healthy habit in recruits. For instance, all chips and chocolate bars in vending machines have been replaced by healthier products such as dry fruits, etc.

Due to poor initial quality control, the school is faced in dealing with many "dependence habit" issues and "bizarre" behavior problems, hence, more cases of releases.

A few examples: 

A 55 yr old man (CRA...) showed up at CFLRS; was out the very next day.
A 54 yr old woman showed up at CFLRS; failed CF Expres in week Zero and was released.
A relatively heavy recruit could not go up the stairs; was immediately released.

Of note:  Recruit SIP:  6,800 for 07/08  and  7,500 for 08/09.

By the way, a recruit that voices that he or she is not made for military life will be released on a voluntary basis.  ...


----------



## armyvern (20 May 2008)

Hmmmm,

Would you just look at this. Familiar no?

Thanks Scoobs for the reminder that it was there ...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68892/post-691298.html#msg691298

Two threads -- with the exact samje post and EVEN with "RFT" in the topic title ... who'd have thunk it?

Merged, etc ... yadda yadda yadda

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


----------

