# Canadians in Siberia post ww1 ignored?



## FascistLibertarian (3 Dec 2007)

Hey, this is kind of a two parter.

1) Why does no one ever talk about the Canadian contribution to fighting the Commies? I was thinking the other day that it has to be the most overlooked large scale army operation Canada has ever been involved in.
2) Does anyone have any good books they could recomend?


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## tabernac (3 Dec 2007)

You talking about the Canadian Contingent who went up to Siberia? Or am I lost?

I think you need to change the thread title.


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## FascistLibertarian (3 Dec 2007)

Iv never changed the subject thingy like that before.
pretty easy

yeah thats what i meant, thanks!


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## George Wallace (3 Dec 2007)

I don't think either of you have found a topic that is historical, nor factual.


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## a_majoor (4 Dec 2007)

Evidently there is a grain of truth here, but the size and scope of the intervention is very limited: perhaps a total of 6000 troops over all, and limited to Archangel and Siberia:

http://www.regiments.org/wars/20ww1/russia.htm
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0036-0341(197801)37%3A1%3C97%3ACIR1%3E2.0.CO%3B2-J
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/military/025002-6036-e.html
http://www.thestar.com/article/275308
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20040126_73949_73949

Your Google-fu is weak, grasshopper. Take these links and begin your search.


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## tabernac (4 Dec 2007)

I had heard snippets of a Canadian contingent going to Siberia after the Great War, but its rather difficult to find information. 

Thanks for the links!


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## Greymatters (4 Dec 2007)

Although done in a humourous fashion, and for fiction only, the series by Canadian author Donald Jack refers to this deployment.


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## CougarKing (4 Dec 2007)

Slight hijack: I remember reading in an issue of the magazine_Military History_ about a "Czech Legion" who served under the Czar during World War I/Bolshevik Revolution, and who crewed armoured trains and were one of those foreign contingents on Russian soil during Bolshevik Revolution/Russian Civil War.

There are also pictures out there of Imperial Japanese Navy landing parties marching through Vladiovostok in about the same period.

Apparently, the Allies had a stake in making sure the White/Czarist Russians won against the Reds, so that they could bring back Russia into the fight against the Kaiser's Germany.


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## je suis prest (5 Dec 2007)

MACLEAN's has a short summary of the expeditions to Russia here: http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20040126_73949_73949#


While now seen as a minor event, it might be noted the total number of soldiers deployed exceeded the numbers now deployed by Canada in Afghanistan.  

And while the major expedition to Vladivostock saw little action, the gunners deployed to Archangel did, including the action at Tulgas on November 11, 1918. There is a good account of that action here:  http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-23410.html


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## AJFitzpatrick (13 Dec 2007)

There are historical narratives on the intervention in Siberia and Muramansk/Archangel at the DHH website
Report Nos. 82 and 83.
The PPCLI  perpetuates the infantry units (CEF Bn 259 and 260) deployed to Muramansk but I believe this was only recently granted.


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## muskrat89 (13 Dec 2007)

The Armoury in Woodstock,NB is named after Major John Winslow, who participated in that campaign.



> Major John Douglas Winslow, Military Cross
> 
> Armoury, Woodstock
> 
> A plaque outside the main door to the Woodstock Armoury reads, “This armoury is dedicated to the memory of Major John Douglas Winslow M.C. Distinguished soldier and citizen of the Town of Woodstock. 6 June 1993".  In the rank of Lieutenant , Winslow earned a Military Cross as a member of the 68th Battery RCA in the Canadian contingent, which served in Northern Russia between 1918 - 1919. His citation reads, “For conspicuous gallantry and determination during operations at Ust Padenga in January 1919.  When the enemy attacked heavily, this officer, with a few men, took charge of an abandoned gun, and, in face of heavy fire, manned and fired the gun over open sights until the order was given for retirement. He fought the gun throughout the withdrawal to Shenkursk (North Russia).”


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## Avary (21 Dec 2007)

Look at this : Discharge certificate for Private Charles-Emile Viau, who served in Siberia.

Front :






And back :





Charles-Emile Viau also had this : 





And these decorations :


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## dapaterson (21 Dec 2007)

Look to the history of the RCE for a few more tid-bits on this; 16th Field Company, RCE served there as well.  Today they are perpetuated by the 34th Combat Engineer Regiment in Westmount, QC (formerly 3rd Field Engineer Regiment).


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## AJFitzpatrick (22 Dec 2007)

Deployed Units to Russia
From Historical Section Report #83
Canadian Expeditionary Force (Siberia)
HQ 16th Inf Bde
“B” Squadron H.C.N.N.N.A. (Cavalry), 85th Battery C.F.A., 16th Field Company C.E., 6th Signal Company
260th Infantry Battalion, 20th Machine Gun Company, No. 1 Company Divisional Train, 16th Field Ambulance
No. 11 Stationary Hospital, No. 9 Ordnance Detachment
The force in Northern Russia (Muramansk, Archangel) was somewhat less structured or at least not as well documented
Notes taken From Historical Section Report #82
The "Elope" party (Archangel) had 5 Canadian officers, 11 NCOs of a 500 man total
A further contingent of 92 officers and N.C.O were deployed to Muramansk, although it is not clear from the report  if these were all Canadian.
The only identified unit in the report is the 16th Bde C.F.A (67th, 68th Btys) [18 officers, 469 OR]. Very worthwhile reading on the actions of the Gunners including the saving of the guns by the drivers.
No mention of the 259th Bn CEF but in my notes I have the subsidiary title "Siberian Expeditionary Force" attached to it. Perhaps a reserve or depot battalion for the 260th.

Edit for spelling


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## X-mo-1979 (22 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't think either of you have found a topic that is historical, nor factual.



I can how you said it actually.
I have never heard of it before either.
Very interesting,thanks for that.


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## AJFitzpatrick (23 Dec 2007)

Missed the second part of the question
I asked a similar question of Norm Christie who suggested the following
 "Allied Intervention in Russia, Canadians in Russia, and a whack of US books. The Ignorant Armies is very good on Archangel"
I haven't actively looked for these so I have no idea on their availability but I think I would trust Mr. Christie's judgement.


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## WrenchBender (9 Jul 2008)

Link to the CWGC on the "Vladivostok Memorial". 
http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=49436&mode=1
The crew of HMCS Protecteur refurbished the cemetary during a prot visit in 1996.

WrenchBender


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## eechoss (21 Jul 2008)

Norm Christie just came out with a book about Canadians In Siberia, If its new or revised im not sure.


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## AJFitzpatrick (28 Aug 2008)

Do you know the title? 
Didn't see anything on the CEF Books website


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## medicineman (28 Aug 2008)

There are actually some headstones in the Ross Bay Cemetary in Victoria for soldiers that died in Russia during the counter-revolution.  

MM


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## stegner (28 Aug 2008)

The NWMP was also involved in the Russian Revolution.


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