# 429 Sqn to become new C-17 Squadron



## Globesmasher (23 Mar 2007)

For all those former bisons out there ................

Instead of the C-17 becoming a "flight" of 437 Sqn, the CAS has recently decreed that 429 Sqn will be stood back up and reactivated as the CC177 squadron.
This should occur on or around 18-20 July 07.

A good reason to go and spill some beer in Trenton on or around those dates.

Fortunae Nihil!


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## geo (23 Mar 2007)

> http://www.rcaf.com/squadrons/400series/429squadron.php
> 
> In August 1981 is was renamed 429 Transport Squadron and soon after moved to CFB Winnipeg.
> In 1990 it moved to CFB Trenton where it remains today flying the CC-130 Hercules.



Sooo.... 429 wasn't flying anything?  

Guess the RCAF association hasn't been keeping their site up to date.

When did 429 Sqn logoff?


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## PO2FinClk (23 Mar 2007)

> 429 Squadron will officially stand down on July 8, 2005 and join ranks with its sister transport squadron, 436, in what is arguably the first tangible step towards Air Force transformation.


http://www.airforce.forces.ca/8wing/news/releases_e.asp?cat=120&id=780


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## gaspasser (23 Mar 2007)

From what I've seen and heard thru a WLEO briefing, there will be lots of new construciton here.  Some new hangers for the C-17s, new office buildings for the pilots, et.al.  Extra infrastructure and some new spaces made on the ramp. {dare I say new ways of doing business?!} I dont' want to get too specific there just in case a lot of promises aren't met(!?)
But, isn't there already enough squadrons here?  (424, 426, 435, 436, 437) 
Yes, each one has specific missions and mandates that makes them all seperate entities.  Is it that the old way of being used to compromising and dual hats.  Is there a new way of thinking going on in the Air Force?  
My 0.02

The good thing is ....we're getting new airframes and trucks!!


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## bison33 (23 Mar 2007)

BYT.........435 Sqn is in Winnipeg. It is *NOT* a lodger unit of 8 wing but of 17 wing.


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## Globesmasher (25 Mar 2007)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> But, isn't there already enough squadrons here?  (424, 426, 435, 436, 437)
> Yes, each one has specific missions and mandates that makes them all seperate entities.  Is it that the old way of being used to compromising and dual hats.  Is there a new way of thinking going on in the Air Force?



Yes, you're right BYT ... we're moving to very specific missions/roles now ... away from that "multi role" money saving posture that we've had jammed down our throats for so many years ... where each unit was an all singing, all dancing, jack of all trades and master of none ... timeframe.

But, to add to the "specificity" of each unit will be the gradual loss of Wing Maintenance as each unit will be operating it's own specific airframe that is no longer useable by another unit in another role.  Amalgamated maintenance will no longer be applicable.

437 will keep it's A310/CC150 Airbus and it's "Strategic Transport" role ... and it will soon begin assuming the AAR role as well.
436 will keep it's CC130 E/H until the J model starts to come on line and it will keep it's "Tactical Transport" role.
424 will keep doing SAR using the Cormorant and the CC130s will slide over to them entirely once the J model delivery is done.
429 will have the new CC177 and the Strategic/Tactical Transport Role.
426 will keep it's job as the main CC130 school house.

And don't forget 412 who is a lodger unit of 8 Wing, although they're based out of Ottawa.

I look foward to the day when we're back to Sqn Maintenance and I see maintainers wearing the Sqn patch on their uniform and we get back to some "pride of ownership" of our aircraft.

All the infrastructure change and personnel change is going to make for some chaos at 8 Wing - but it will be a positive chaos since, like you said .... "we're getting new airframes and trucks".


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## Good2Golf (25 Mar 2007)

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> ...I look foward to the day when we're back to Sqn Maintenance and I see maintainers wearing the Sqn patch on their uniform and we get back to some "pride of ownership" of our aircraft.



Never experienced the BAMEO/WAMEO thing where I flew, but heard alot of bad things about it from the guys..."Grey man" stuff, no pride in crew or sqn aircraft, etc...

G2G


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## observor 69 (25 Mar 2007)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Never experienced the BAMEO/WAMEO thing where I flew, but heard alot of bad things about it from the guys..."Grey man" stuff, no pride in crew or sqn aircraft, etc...
> 
> G2G



CFB Baden, centralized 104 maintenance serving three squadrons. Normal deal was newly posted personnel spent one year on Squadron doing first line maintenance, starts and parks, and the remaining three years in Maintenance or Snags. No "grey man" here every one felt loyalty to support of the fleet.
   I came to Baden from CFB Chatham, Voodoos, now there was more of a grey man experience especially as the aircraft was old and very long in the tooth.


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## Good2Golf (25 Mar 2007)

Roger that, BG....I was thinking more of the tpt world.  I saw it at 7 Wing Uplands and heard about it in 8 Wing.

G2G


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## gaspasser (25 Mar 2007)

bison33 said:
			
		

> BYT.........435 Sqn is in Winnipeg. It is *NOT* a lodger unit of 8 wing but of 17 wing.


Sorry, my bad, you fuel so many aircraft and all those numbers just running thru your head.  I knew when I posted taht there was one too many squadrons.
Gotta keep my head out of those tanks... ;D


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## Avro_Arrow_1976 (25 Mar 2007)

The "centralized" maintenance concept is not good at all, and several bases employ it. Shearwater for the Sea King, Greenwood for the Aurora and Trenton for the Hercules. In Trenton for example, 8 air maintenance squadron does all of the Herc maintenance for the 3 squadrons that fly them. 8 AMS in Trenton has 500 people working there, mostly techs but 20 some AERE officers, but no aircrew. The squadron is so large that you don't feel like you belong to something and although the techs are making a difference, many of them feel unappreciated. Don't get me wrong you are treated well, but moral is a little on the low side. I spent several years there and being there is very different from a flying squadron that have personnel doing their own maintenance within the same squadron, as we do here at 440. At flying squadrons the pilots really appreciate the work of the techs and there is more pride going into the work. At flying squadrons, the pilots and aircrew become your friends, and you really feel part of something. For example my unit now is conducting an important sovereignty operation in the high arctic and the whole unit sat in on the briefing for the mission. At 8 AMS you're called out on the line to fix a snag on a broken Herc but you never know where it has been or where it's going. 

It will be interesting to see how they employ techs working on the C17. I do know that it is "blue suit maintenance", for you non-airforce people out there that means airforce aviation and avionics technicians will be doing the primary, first line maintenance on the plane.  That is the really good news, but as of right now, the technicians will still belong to 8AMS in there newly created C17 flight. In my opinion they should belong to 429 Squadron when it stands up again. I wasn't surprised they chose 429 because Bison squadron was the next senior transport squadron that was inactive.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (25 Mar 2007)

Great to see. It is wonderful to see a Squadron with such an illustrious history restored to the ORBAT.

FORTUNAE NIHIL - "Nothing to chance"


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## cp140tech (25 Mar 2007)

I work at 14 AMS in Greenwood, there is a feeling of detachment with the maintenance sqn.  When I'm called out for a ramp snag I usually have no idea who's on board until I get out there.  I've consistently heard from guys who belonged to flying squadrons that it's a much better work environment.  I'm posted to 407 Sqn in Comox this APS, so I'm looking forward to getting a look at the other side of maintenance.


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## Inch (25 Mar 2007)

Arrow,

12 AMS doesn't work like that and hasn't in the relatively short time I've been posted here. 12 AMS does 3 of the 4 Periodics (IMP does every 4th one) on the Sea King and they own all the shops such as engine bay and ALSE. All first line maint including engine and gearbox changes are done by 423 Sqn techs who also embark with us on the detachments.

Until a couple years ago, 406 also had their own techs. Then we went to a single pool of aircraft vice each Sqn having their own aircraft and techs and all techs from 406 moved over to 423. So there's two employers for techs in Shearwater, 12 AMS doing periodic inspections or engine/gearbox/etc overhauls and 423 Sqn for all deployed and domestic flying operations.


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## Avro_Arrow_1976 (25 Mar 2007)

Ok that's different from when I was there, 406 Sqn's maintainers used to be part of 12 AMS. Thanks for the info


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## Allen (28 Mar 2007)

On a slightly different topic, I was wondering if anyone in the know could tell us if the first C-17 is still on schedule to be delivered in August. I read in the Globe and Mail that the requirement for DND and Canadian companies to comply with ITAR is slowing down procurement programs, even for items for which a contract has been awarded, like the Cyclone helicopters.


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## Globesmasher (29 Mar 2007)

Everything is running at break-neck speed and delivery is still set for August.


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## Allen (30 Mar 2007)

Thanks, that's good to know.


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## NovaScotiaNewfie (4 Aug 2007)

A friend of mine on facebook had pics of the C-17...waiting to hear back from him to where he got them.  Did a google search and didn't find any of those pics. Here they are..


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## NovaScotiaNewfie (4 Aug 2007)

pic 2


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## NovaScotiaNewfie (4 Aug 2007)

Here is the last pic.


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## Nfld Sapper (4 Aug 2007)

Looks like the pics Globesmasher posted.


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