# Software oriented career in the military?



## fobcoder (7 Oct 2012)

Hey,
I was trying to find Software development or other IT related careers in the Canadian military. I tried google, but I only found jobs for the American military, with no equivalent titles for the Canadian side. The only thing I found so far is  the 4 Software Engineering Squadron (http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/14w-14e/sqns-escs/page-eng.asp?id=433).

However, there are no job postings for that on the Forces.ca website. Is there any demand/place for computer programmers/software engineers in the Canadian military (especially the reserves) or does the military rely on civilian contractors for its software development needs? 

The only software engineering jobs I found that relate to the military are either for CSIS or CSEC (http://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/index-eng.html)


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## toughenough (7 Oct 2012)

Comms has an electronic warfare squadron...or be like me, graduate from a software engineering program and then join the infantry


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## MikeL (7 Oct 2012)

Trades that deal with IT stuff would be ACISS-IST,  NAV COM, and possibly ATIS.  There isn't a software developer trade in the CF.


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## MMSS (7 Oct 2012)

One of the specializations for Maritime Surface and Subsurface (MARS) Officer is management of information and communication systems.


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## Mike5 (10 Oct 2012)

What is the name of that specialization for MARS Officer?  Could you post a link or any other info?

Cheers,


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## MikeL (10 Oct 2012)

Signal Officers can also be a ISSO


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## MMSS (10 Oct 2012)

Mike5 said:
			
		

> What is the name of that specialization for MARS Officer?  Could you post a link or any other info?
> 
> Cheers,



Straight from forces.ca:



> After six months of consolidation, you will specialize for four to six months in any of the following areas: ship navigation, above or under-water weapons direction, control and direction of helicopter operations, or management of information and communication systems.


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## Occam (10 Oct 2012)

MMSS said:
			
		

> One of the specializations for Maritime Surface and Subsurface (MARS) Officer is management of information and communication systems.



Management from a very high level.  Very high level, as in "don't touch a keyboard or we'll cut your fingers off".



			
				Mike5 said:
			
		

> What is the name of that specialization for MARS Officer?  Could you post a link or any other info?



I believe it's CCISO - Command and Control Information Systems Officer.  It's not a specialization so much as a secondary duty.


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## Baz (10 Oct 2012)

For the main networks, most of the software is off the shelf, or is contracted.  There are pockets of development that come and go but nothing really sustained.

Since you mentioned 14SES, I'll add to that.  Basically, every modern weapon system needs a sotware support mechanism.  I'm familiar with the ones for the CP-140, CH-124/148, CF-188, Halifax Class, and Iroquois Class.

In all of the above cases, the coding itself is either done by a civilian company (GDC for the Block III CP-140 and CH-148, L-3 for the CF-188, Lockheed Martin for the Halifax and Iroquois) or long term civilian employees.  The CH-124 is a bit different as its software is supported on an ad hoc basis.  People in uniform do two jobs.  Operators (Pilots/ACSOs/AESOPs in the Air Force, MARS in the Navy do operational management) and Engineers (AEREs in the Air Force, MAREs in the Navy) do technical management.

Operational management is defining the operational requirements for each new version and ensuring the requirements are met during acceptance testing.  Technical managements are ensuring the software follows proper coding and documentation practices, with the ultimate aim that it can be "certified."  Remember, these systems deliver weapons and also fly in aircraft, so certification is a not so simple process.  Additionally, they also have security certification requirements.

Similar things are also done for the simulators for all these weapon systems.

For an overview, here are the units:
- CP-140, 14SES holds the operational management (the Operational Liaison and Acceptance, OLA), the technical management, and the coding (civilian programmers).  I'm not sure how their relationship with General Dynamics Canada is developing for Block III.
- CH-124, aircraft software is ad hoc (the only Canadian specific change to the Tactical Computer, the ASN-123, was done at NAVAIR North Island, San Diego).  The sim is Raythe on Canada on site.  Operational management has been ad hoc but is currently formalized into an OLA preparing for the Cyclone.
- CH-148 will have an OLA at Shearwater, and a technical management cell at the contractor site (General Dynamics Canada) on Caldwel Road in Dartmouth.
- CF-188 is done by L-3 at Mirebel, with Operation management by two pilots and Technical Management on site.
- Halifax Class Operational Management was ORAC (Operational Requirements ? ?, I can assure you that the MARS Officer there wouldn't have his fingers broke if he touched something...) at MARLANT Halifax, Technical Management and Coding (by Lockheed Martin) at the building with all the radars across from the gym (the unit has a name but I can't remember it right now).  With the modernization it happens to still be Lockheed Martin, but they have a new building in Dartmouth (along the circ, with all the radars, just up from MacKay Bridge on the right).
- Iroquois Class Operational Management was ORAC at MARPAC Esquimalt, Technical Management and Coding (by Lockheed Martin) at a facility there.

I have been "fortunate" enough to write quite a bit of code for the CH-124 Tactical and Sim systems, but that was just "the right person at the right place at the right time..."  I have also done quite a bit of operational management (I'm an ACSO).

These jobs for operators are very specialized, with specialized training, and a requirement to have a strong operations background first; IE 3rd tour or later normally.  The engineers can get into it earlier.  In both cases their are masters programs available for  a subset of them.

As well, people at the DRDCs get involved with coding, but that is even more rare for people in uniform.

Hope this helps.


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## fobcoder (11 Oct 2012)

Baz said:
			
		

> For the main networks, most of the software is off the shelf, or is contracted.  There are pockets of development that come and go but nothing really sustained.
> 
> Since you mentioned 14SES, I'll add to that.  Basically, every modern weapon system needs a sotware support mechanism.  I'm familiar with the ones for the CP-140, CH-124/148, CF-188, Halifax Class, and Iroquois Class.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the info!
In your opinion, what is the best suited career path for someone with a Software Engineering degree?


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## Baz (11 Oct 2012)

Well I'm biased, but ACSO.

I like the interaction between operations and the software.  You first get to be a competent operator, and then you specialize, ensuring the software meets the need.  By the way, my BSc is CompSci.  I've spent pretty much the last 15 years (I wings qual'd in 92) doing operational needs for software in one way or the other.

However, if you want to be focused as much as possible on software development, probably AERE.  It is possible to have repeated tours as an AERE in that area.  You'll still need to do some "line" work at some point, but can somewhat specialize.

If you'd like more of a high level network focus CELE.

MARE is interesting becuase they can jump between network needs and software support.

MARS is probably harder to get where you want to be.

As well, the Army Combat Arms and Sigs probably have something similar.  Although I'm not very familiar with how they do it, I imagine it would be fewer by proportion.

Finally, related to all those there are NCM positions.  However, they tend to be more focused on the day to day operations, at the level of requirements and acceptance it becomes officer heavy.

Just my opinions... I have been quite involved in both air and naval system issues, but its hard to plan for.


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