# Tailoring... time's up?



## tree hugger (22 Sep 2010)

Went to the tailor shop today on base asking about getting my DEU skirt hemmed.  They say that since I've had it longer than 2 weeks, I have to complete it elsewhere on my dime.   ??? I asked the lady if there was an official policy on this but she didn't seem to know of one.  

Is this true?  If so, I've never heard of it.... I'm wanting to wear it as part of No. 2's.


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## Occam (24 Sep 2010)

From the supply manual (DWAN link only):



> 3-13K-012. Alterations and repairs - Distinctive Environmental Uniform (DEU)
> 31. Alterations to new clothing shall be completed at public expense for all ranks on initial issue and for replacement issue of authorized DEU items of clothing. Shirts cannot be altered at public expense. Exceptions can be authorized by the supply officer or clothing supervisor, including alterations to CF shirts. If an individual requires alterations beyond what is listed at para 35, they must provide substantiation in writing (email) to the Sup O or clothing supervisor. Alterations to CF shirts, although not restricted to this group, would normally be allowed for CF personnel holding senior appointments.
> 
> 32. Major alterations are not authorized to DEU garments. A comprehension range of standard DEU sizes are available from the contractor, made to measure ranges as described in sec G are also available online. Minor alterations described in para 35 should allow for a proper fit.  If a proper fit is not possible a made to measure garment shall be ordered.
> ...



I don't see anything about a two week deadline.


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## armyvern (24 Sep 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> From the supply manual (DWAN link only):
> 
> I don't see anything about a two week deadline.



Nope; it doesn't exist.

First time in my entire career that I've heard this BS line used by staff.


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## armyvern (24 Sep 2010)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> Went to the tailor shop today on base asking about getting my DEU skirt hemmed.  They say that since I've had it longer than 2 weeks, I have to complete it elsewhere on my dime.   ??? I asked the lady if there was an official policy on this but she didn't seem to know of one.
> 
> Is this true?  If so, I've never heard of it.... I'm wanting to wear it as part of No. 2's.



Were you fed this line in Pet?


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## Old and Tired (24 Sep 2010)

We hear this in Halifax fairly often directed at newer members who have just been issued their DEU.  They may get them in Apr or May, then go on tasking or course and when they get back they get told 'Oh sorry times up for free tailoring, you will have to pay for it or go to a civie tailor and pay for it that way.'

I keep a photo copy of the ref handy to give to troops going to the Dockyard tailor, so we can call BS if needed.  I suspect that they are just overloaded with work as there never seem to be more than 4 civie tailors working there at any given time.  They do have a huge work load, no denying that, but f they just up front told people that there will be an X Day or Week to get the work done, it would a lot better than quoting policies or directives that do not exist.


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## catalyst (25 Sep 2010)

On a similar vein, is there a time limit for the tailor (outside of that directive, perhaps in a contract somewhere?)

I managed to end up with no DEU pants (long story) - I have three pairs, which all require tailoring, but I don't really want to wait a month to get them back (the skirt thing is getting old). I may pay for one of them on my own dime, but it will get quite expensive if I have to pay for all three.


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## chrisf (25 Sep 2010)

It's not as if they're stamped with an expiry date. If it were me, I'd have walked out the door, walked back in and said "Oh, this is a newer skirt. It was in my car.". Not that I advocate lying, but they started it.

Have to take the opportunity to complement our local tailor (seamstress?). She's fantastic, work always gets done in an expedient manner, she's very helpful, and as we have no mat techs locally, she's also helped "us" (Me, just working with various units at various times) out a few times with quick repairs on kit (Not sure if that's part of her job or not, again, as we have no mat techs, all I know is she's always great...).


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## armyvern (25 Sep 2010)

Old and Tired said:
			
		

> We hear this in Halifax fairly often directed at newer members who have just been issued their DEU.  They may get them in Apr or May, then go on tasking or course and when they get back they get told 'Oh sorry times up for free tailoring, you will have to pay for it or go to a civie tailor and pay for it that way.'
> 
> I keep a photo copy of the ref handy to give to troops going to the Dockyard tailor, so we can call BS if needed.  I suspect that they are just overloaded with work as there never seem to be more than 4 civie tailors working there at any given time.  They do have a huge work load, no denying that, but f they just up front told people that there will be an X Day or Week to get the work done, it would a lot better than quoting policies or directives that do not exist.



What I think is happening ... is that there are some Clothing Stores Supervisors who are misinterpreting a two weeks for tailoring related to getting the actual work done once the item is dropped off.

All normal Tailor Shop SOPs usually include a statement such as:

"Once the item has been dropped off for tailoring, the work should normally be completed within two weeks. Rank changes will occur as same-day service".

There is absolutely NO national document that deems that pers only have 2 weeks after it's receipt to take it in to the tailor. But, many that state the tailor has 2 weeks to complete the work once the tailor gets it.

I'd say, young and inexperienced supervisors who are misinterpreting the SOPs ... if even read at all.


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## tree hugger (27 Sep 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Were you fed this line in Pet?



Yep, here in Pet.  I guess I'll go back in with this reference and get it done.


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## tree hugger (6 Oct 2010)

Yeah, so that didn't work...  I met with the WO and the tailor and they said that 2 years is too long, how were they to even know it was my skirt... looks like I was issued the wrong size anyways... I should have had them to the tailor's right after the inital issue...etc.

While I agree that I should have taken them to the tailors right after I got them, they couldn't find a reference where there was a drop dead timeframe to get the initial issue tailored.  

Since it's too late for me to return the skirt to Logistik, they suggested I used my points to be issued a new one.  At this point I knew I was not going to convince them to tailor my current skirt.  All I wanted was to get skirt before my event on 16Oct, which I explained to them.  The tailor measured me up and told me what size to order (which I ordered within the hour).  Since this is a "new" skirt they would be able to do alterations on it, in this case, bringing it up a bit.    

The skirt arrived Monday, Tuesday the tailor is closed so I stopped by today.  The soonest they could get it done was the 20th.  So the whole aim/effort of getting my skirt altered at public expense was wasted....

I now have to take it to a civillian tailor and hope they can get it done for me in time.  This process was very disapointing.


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## Occam (6 Oct 2010)

FFS...is there no end to the silliness?  If the supply manual doesn't say there is a time limit, there's no time limit.  WO or not, they shouldn't be inventing rules where none exist.  If the WO has reason to believe you're trying to screw the system, then he should be coming out with it, otherwise sign the damn chit and get it altered.

Jeez, this outfit boggles sometimes.


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## Journeyman (6 Oct 2010)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> .....able to do alterations on it, in this case, *bringing it up* a bit.


Just know that we're backing you!   ;D


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## tree hugger (7 Oct 2010)

Haha!  I told the tailor to make it as short as the CF dress manual would allow, just for you!   :nod:

With this off base tailor, I'll get it back on Wednesday.  And for the record, I had taken my tunic to the civi tailor to get it taken in as I knew that it was no longer at the "initial issue" stage.  Got it back today and she did a terrific job.


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## Pusser (7 Oct 2010)

This brings to light an interesting issue.  The tailoring rules need to be updated.  In the old days, we paid for replacement parts of our dress uniforms (yes, we received CUA as well, but let's face it, everybody simply treated that as part of our pay) and so there were limits placed on tailoring to ensure folks weren't abusing the service and simply trying to have things that should have been replaced, tailored instead.  Now that we no longer "pay" for replacement parts, does it not make sense to change the policy?  If I can't have my perfectly good three year old tunic altered at public expense, am I going to take it to a private tailor and pay for it, or am I going to order a new one from Logistikorp and get that one tailored?  In the end, the public still pays for tailoring, but in the latter scenario, they also pay for a new tunic.  Perhaps now, alterations should either be free at any time, or we should be able to use our points to have the alterations done.


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## krustyrl (7 Oct 2010)

Good point Pusser.


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## Rheostatic (7 Oct 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> In the end, the public still pays for tailoring, but in the latter scenario, they also pay for a new tunic.


 Does Logistik get paid per item or a flat rate for the service they provide?


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## tree hugger (7 Oct 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Perhaps now, alterations should either be free at any time, or we should be able to use our points to have the alterations done.



Interesting.  It could also avoid any excuse we have for having ill fitting DEU's on parade.  ie. Holy crapola, my pants shrunk!


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## take2 (7 Oct 2010)

> All normal Tailor Shop SOPs usually include a statement such as:
> 
> "Once the item has been dropped off for tailoring, the work should normally be completed within two weeks. Rank changes will occur as same-day service".
> 
> There is absolutely NO national document that deems that pers only have 2 weeks after it's receipt to take it in to the tailor. But, many that state the tailor has 2 weeks to complete the work once the tailor gets it.



Oh really?  It took base tailoring 4 weeks to change the rank on my tunic.


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## armyvern (7 Oct 2010)

take2 said:
			
		

> Oh really?  It took base tailoring 4 weeks to change the rank on my tunic.



Why, yes. _Really. _ 

Promotions are supposed to be done on a "while you wait there" basis. Always have been. Don't know where you are at, but heck ... you know what to do next time eh?

When they ask (for promotions), "When do you need it for?" You say, "Today, it's a promotion."


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## HItorMiss (7 Oct 2010)

Vern

In Pet it was a 2 week wait to get private hooks on 9er's DEU I ssume the same for when she gets her Cpl's soon....

Maybe someone in the QM world maybe a new MWO *cough* *cough* should start looking into base tailoring dropping the ball CF wide


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## dogger1936 (7 Oct 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Why, yes. _Really. _
> 
> Promotions are supposed to be done on a "while you wait there" basis. Always have been. Don't know where you are at, but heck ... you know what to do next time eh?
> 
> When they ask (for promotions), "When do you need it for?" You say, "Today, it's a promotion."



Vern
I've had four promotions here in Petawawa and everytime  I went there it was plus of a two week wait. I like MANY soldiers on base just get the new rank or trade badge from them and take it down to 21 Mary street to get done. Infact this is sometimes ordered as troops get promoted in october and require their new rank for november parades....and base tailor shop can never do it in the required time.


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## armyvern (7 Oct 2010)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Vern
> 
> In Pet it was a 2 week wait to get private hooks on 9er's DEU I ssume the same for when she gets her Cpl's soon....
> 
> Maybe someone in the QM world maybe a new MWO *cough* *cough* should start looking into base tailoring dropping the ball CF wide



I don't know any new MWOs in my trade.  

But, it seems that the issue may be location, location, location. Perhaps a word or query from a keen leader there would garner some answers as to what's going on there.  

It's as you wait for promotions in Gagetown, Trenton etc (so the problem is not CF-wide) unless you tell them you can wait. They do ask if you can wait or "when do you need it for" or "would 2 weeks be OK." If you're OK with that ... then that's when you'll get it. But, fact of the matter is, and by regulation, promotions ARE the *priority* for tailoring.


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## tree hugger (16 Nov 2011)

Ok, went back to the tailor shop here in Pet again this morning.  I wanted to get my tunic stripe changed to the executive curl.  They refuse to do it because I belong to a unit in Ottawa.  I explained to her that it is not realistic for me to drive into Gatineau to get this done since I live here.  The tailor explained that they can only do items from people posted to Petawawa.  I countered by saying that any CF tailorshop should be able to give service to any CF member showing up.

I just don't get it.  I think I may have piddled in this womans cornflakes in another life....


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

IIRC, the tailor shop in Pet has always been like that.


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## dapaterson (16 Nov 2011)

Before he married my sister, my brother-in-law dated the daughter of a tailor.  The tailor worked briefly on a contract at CFB Montreal.  He was told, after his first week of work, that he would not have his contract renewed, as his output in one week was what the entire shop normally produced in a month.


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## armyvern (16 Nov 2011)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> Ok, went back to the tailor shop here in Pet again this morning.  I wanted to get my tunic stripe changed to the executive curl.  They refuse to do it because I belong to a unit in Ottawa.  I explained to her that it is not realistic for me to drive into Gatineau to get this done since I live here.  The tailor explained that they can only do items from people posted to Petawawa.  I countered by saying that any CF tailorshop should be able to give service to any CF member showing up.
> 
> I just don't get it.  I think I may have piddled in this womans cornflakes in another life....



The answer is actually quite simple and makes complete sense; most tailor shops on bases these days are contractors (ie: not public service employees) and therefore are paid through the base's own fin coding (not a national fin coding) for their contracted services. One's BComd does not like using his base's budget to pay for contracted work that is benefitting another base (or pers from another base). 

I assure you that cornflakes aren't involved ... just Commanders ensuring that their bases local budget is spent on "their" needs not some other bases.


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## Pusser (16 Nov 2011)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> Ok, went back to the tailor shop here in Pet again this morning.  I wanted to get my tunic stripe changed to the executive curl.  They refuse to do it because I belong to a unit in Ottawa.  I explained to her that it is not realistic for me to drive into Gatineau to get this done since I live here.  The tailor explained that they can only do items from people posted to Petawawa.  I countered by saying that any CF tailorshop should be able to give service to any CF member showing up.
> 
> I just don't get it.  I think I may have piddled in this womans cornflakes in another life....



Is your place of duty actually in Petawawa, or are you there only temporarily?  If it's a temporary situation, then wait until you get back to Ottawa.  However, if it's permanent, the situation is a bit different. Your unit may be in Ottawa, but if your place of duty is Petawawa, then Petawawa has an obligation to provide services.  Does the BOR hold your pers file?  Does the Pay Office handle your pay?  This could be a similar situation to a place like CFAD Rocky Point, which is an NDHQ field unit (i.e. personnel posted there are actually part of NDHQ), but which receives services (e.g. tailoring) from CFB Esquimalt.  ArmyVern is correct in saying that units are charged for tailoring services, but providing the tailor with an appropriate fin code should not be too difficult (even if it's an Ottawa one).

Another option would be to contact Clothing Stores in Ottawa and make arrangements to ship your tunic down, have the work done and have them ship it back.


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## tree hugger (16 Nov 2011)

I work on base in Pet for my civi job.  I travel to Ottawa for reserves.


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## Pusser (16 Nov 2011)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> I work on base in Pet for my civi job.  I travel to Ottawa for reserves.



I'm afraid then that this Supply Officer would agree with the Base Tailor in Petawawa.  From a CF perspective, your not in Petawawa and you have no reason to be there (even though the DND perspective may be quite different).  I think your best bet (other than coming to Ottawa when CFSU(O) clothing stores is open) is to try the shipping solution I suggested earlier.  I recommend contacting the Clothing Stores supervisor.  The Supply Section at your reserve unit may be able to help you on this as well (talk to your LogO).


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