# One more for the record...



## serenamorrow (11 Mar 2018)

Hello all!

Good to see milnet is still going on strong and being a wonderful resource. 

I figure I would do a sort of re-introduction, as I do not recall if I have before. Originally applied for the forces about ten years ago, but the application was stopped at the medical stage due to grey area concern. 

Now a decade later, it has become a good time as any to try again, now that the concern has been resolved years ago and life situation is as ideal as it can be. The ads in theaters and online have done their job at repeatedly sparking this interest in the back of my mind, 'Dare to be extraordinary'. That and the occasional report on the news since last year.  

It was last week, walking down the street with the song 'Who are you, really?' stuck in my head, passing by the recruitment center, when the decision was made. What do I have to lose from applying again? Either or, at least I will forever know instead of continuing to wonder. 

Current plan is to go in tomorrow, bringing whatever paper work I still have from my last application and new ones that likely be asked for. Lot's has happened since, both in mind and body, yet feel it has only made me stronger, more certain, more experience, and better awareness. While the concern of before may no longer be, yet new one's may form as I provide an update on my overall status. 

After that, will I fit or will I be too out of ordinary? Will I break, or will I overcome? We will see.


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## AbdullahD (11 Mar 2018)

Good luck mate 👍👊


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## Jarnhamar (12 Mar 2018)

May I recommend the infantry.


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## serenamorrow (12 Mar 2018)

I am not even sure what to put down for MOS yet. I figure I will wait until I discuss things with a recruiter, especially with the many changes in the past decade. Last time, base on my CFAT and initial medical/information, I was qualified for all of the MOS except piloting (no 20/20).


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## serenamorrow (12 Mar 2018)

I was at the recruitment office earlier. They answered the initial questions; file is closed and need to apply anew online, should be fine if grey area concern has been resolved but medical will confirm once at that stage, do not need to do CFAT again as it never expires and open to all MOS pending medical and such, will be sent a time for the personality test interview and I think medical after I complete the app online, and Navy are into pushing their environment as much as before.

Now amused that I said I did not have anymore questions at the end of my quick visit, and now have several as I start the application online. Good thing there is milnet and google!

I recall the last times I came to the recruitment office being anxious and uncertain, more so along with some mental drama after deciding to apply the first time as if I am coming out or something. Had none of that when I made the decision last week, and as I went in today. No excitement or joy either, just neutral certainty and determined. 

Okay, back to the application...


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## serenamorrow (16 Mar 2018)

I received the "Your application has been selected for further processing" email yesterday morning. I responded accordingly with the requested info and plus some, and now to patiently wait a week or so for the reply. In the meantime, I have all the documents requested ready plus some other that likely may be asked medical wise. Confirming and making appointments with all the relevant doctors, planning to some medical confirmations and updates from previous ones. If I can cut down the amount of time it takes to process the application especially medical, would be great. Last time it was about five months from first contact to first response from medical in Ottawa.


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## serenamorrow (20 Mar 2018)

Five days later as per email instruction, poke the RC with a call and email. Reminded that it will likely be easier to drop by in person as before, which I will do tomorrow or so when I head downtown. I understand patience is needed, yet weekly and bi-weekly poking is good to do until instructed otherwise. *Waiting Warrior Engaged*

In the meantime, I am in-between full-time work and still searching. Also waiting for a response for one position, so patience all around. Pending the results of my CF application of course, I know may be a bit of jerk to potential employer if I step down few to several months later. It is unavoidable though, as there are no reason to sabotage a potential job for a 'maybe', especially one that can take up to a year or more overall before a job offer. 

Good thing I have experience with mid to long term waiting since the last time I applied.


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## mariomike (20 Mar 2018)

serenamorrowind said:
			
		

> I know may be a bit of jerk to potential employer if I step down few to several months later.



Why? You've got to eat.

In the meantime, good luck with your application.


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## serenamorrow (23 Mar 2018)

Probably just me, but feels bit more awkward than it did eight years ago when trying to go to the RC or call. 

I swung by the RC yesterday to check in about the application, as I have not received any call or email about an appointment. Then was informed of the usual times the senior medical can be reached at certain times, and what time of day they do medical. Since I was there before the afternoon run, thought there may be a possibility to slot me in, which I did not expect. I had 45 minutes wait, so mentioned I will take care of an errand nearby and be right back.

I did, and went to reception speaking to different person as the other was on the phone. Explained that the other said may be possibility to slot me in, and then he directed for me to wait. While waiting, I realized I missed a call while I was entering the building and do another quick security check. Tried calling back and figuring out who it was. Even asked reception if they recognized number as first three digits were the same for the RC.  

Went back to waiting for almost a hour, as people were called out to go upstairs or one of the recruiter cubicles, and checked with reception again talking to the first person I spoke to originally. He was surprised I did not confirmed to be slot in (or something like that, may have misunderstood there) and now it is too late. I thought we did, oh well, my mistake, likely a miscommunication. They did give me a card with the extension to the senior medical at the RC and reiterated the best times to call them, which I did today and left a message the first time. Looking at the extension, it was the same to the last four numbers of the call I received with no voice mail which I am unable to call back as being unavailable. Sigh, should have not left for the errand and stayed. 

When I tried calling the other day, talking to reception also felt weird, as in they did not entirely understood what I said and possibly I did not either in return, as they forwarded me to a line for a CFAT appointment...but CFAT is already done. I left a message with them and planned to show up to the RC. I can be super patient, and will try again next week. 

Maybe also was more fortunate eight years ago, as I coincidentally knew one of the recruiters who took on my application and helped with the first steps, feedback, and such. Now it is feels less personal with the online application, more preference to me calling, and some uncertainty to me coming in person. Or again, probably just me and reading into things too much. La patience est une vertue, and not just with waiting.


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## serenamorrow (3 Apr 2018)

I am not sure if it a broader thing or just the reception of the RC, but I think need to be more straight to the point when I speak. They tend to not understand and just redirect you base on one word before getting the context.

Yes, still trying to get an appointment for medical. So far, I get more by either showing up in person or calling than I do by email.


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## serenamorrow (29 May 2018)

Wow, already almost two months went by? Time flies when distracted by life. 

I went by the RC to earlier today, about a month or more since the last time I checked in. Then they said my application is on hold due to the medical backlog there and to be patient. I understand and expected, mainly wanted to poke every so often to make sure it does not get lost or in case there is a new roadblock.

Today, one of the recruiters, the same naval forward one who said hello each time I am there, clearly remembers me and took over from reception on the status of my file and went in the back to check on my file and where I am at. Came back and got me a date for the Personality Test interview, and a mention that they are waiting on Borden for something, which I am guessing the medical file from my original application. 

This is good, at least now it appears things are moving. I know the personality test is a newer requirement, and one thing missing other than my medical, and redo of security check. I already got most of the paperwork required from my last application, just need to update it a bit and get new references. 

In the meantime, my active imagine going through the different sort of questions and info that may be asked, both probable and improbable. I go through this with any job interview, but in this case will be more in-depth and honest (as in no vagueness or responding to the context/purpose instead of literal/direct). I remember playing sorta playing chicken with this US border guard who asked me the usual questions, yet when on with extra ones as quickly I was effectively answering base on whatever they had access to on their database yet normally not reviewed, in attempt to trip me up. It was a lesson on needing to be ready to respond on anything that can possibly be found online, public records, and others records reserved for security entities. 

Anyway, stuff to prepare for and happy with the progress.


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## serenamorrow (11 Jun 2018)

I got the TSDI done, along with the substance form. I was sorta expecting more, so felt a bit underwhelmed by it, yet I understand the logic of it all. 

Before doing that, started going through the paper work with one recruiter, and had me refill one as the months for addresses needed to overlap. Also asked that I come back with more precise dates for all of my numerous travels instead of just month and year, so they can determine how long I have been. Did not fully understand the explanation until I met with another one, same from few weeks back, expanded that it is more for travel lasting months after I explained  that except for my last work related one, all of the trips as been no more than five days, usually for long weekends. Yay Sports!

That one though saw my refilled form and said I should find other references, as the one I have do not count because I marked them down as friends/acquaintances/roommates. That one is a bit frustrating, as I cannot rely on any of last two jobs that are qualified that I can put down. Pointed out I can use my coaches as reference, which to me is less than ideal. I used friendships/acquaintances/neighbours as security references last time I applied and they seem to have a been a non-issue then. Did something change?

Beyond that, see if I can find my original transcript for high school as the one I gave was a photocopy. Original has a stamp press on it, which the photocopy faintly shows. He suggested this as may cause a concern later, so better to preempt avoid it. 

Good to see things are moving along and paperwork being mostly resolved.


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## serenamorrow (13 Jun 2018)

I got the official email with the attached letter that the first step is completed.


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## group 7003 (16 Jun 2018)

March,1970 course 7003 at CFB Cornwallis was marched in the drill hall, given a vacinne,, quarantined in our barracks, our arm swelled twice its normal size an went through hot/cold spells but the cold was in our bones. I requested my medical an military records no mention off any vacinne in 1970 we got a boosted at CFB Borden 6 mths later. For the last 8 yrs i have been asking what was in that Pusser shot,, the name we called it with our arm swelling to twice its size. VA. our lawyer, Veteran Ombusman, National Defence Health Services Group, an even my  MP Dominic Leblanc. I have found others still alive an they also have no record on there medical files, but they all do have live cancer kidney cancer throat cancer, diabetic every single one to the man, an there wifes are all ill there children an even there Grand Children. What is the government hiding from you check you medical record if you go the pusser shot you will know no one forgets that shot. I have been trying to yell this out  for 8yrs now please please if you got this shot check you record your families health may depend on once were all gone the government will have won. 


                                                                                                                                             M/Cpl  Joseph Yvon Melanson
                                                                                                                                              1st P P C L I


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## serenamorrow (11 Jul 2018)

Last week I received another email confirming my interview date and meet with a career counselor at end of the month, and medical the following week. This surprised me, as at least two of my references were not called, and have confirmed yet with a third. I was under the impression they would be calling them first. 

With that though, life is being weird with me in past weeks. Few options that would involve big changes entered my horizon, all of them positive, yet like the CF application, they are not guaranteed and in turn cannot entirely rely on. Also includes couple of 'staying the course' options too. 

It feels like there is a crossroad coming up, and will have to make a decision. Wanted to have big change, and the universe provides. Sigh.


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## NavyHopeful (13 Jul 2018)

I read through your last posts, and you didn't mention what you applied for... (I'm just curious / nosy)

I, too, had a similar crossroads with employment during my waiting for my CF application to gain traction.  Thankfully, I was applying for a job with Securitas, and was up front with them about my military application, and they were extremely supportive.  What made it easier for me in my decision was my wife and the rest of my family supporting my decision.  I managed to stay the course because I knew that, no matter what decision I made, they would have my back.

Thankfully (for me, anyways), I got in, made it through BMQ and got posted to Halifax.  For me, life in the Navy is not without it's share of challenges, but it is probably the most rewarding experience of my professional life.  In my top three self-identifiers when people ask, I am a husband, a father, and a sailor.

The bonus I get from this job is the pride I have to put on this uniform every day.  It sounds corny to some, and even the sourest and saltiest would call me a suck-up or a keener, but to me putting on the uniform means that I am part of a bigger picture that is making the world a little safer and a litter better for my kids.  I know that it would be the same if I wasn't involved, but it gives me a sense of pride and satisfaction to be able to say, "The end result might have been the same, but at least I could help out with a little bit of the lifting."

Anyways, that's my random thoughts at 0530.  I hope that, whatever decision you are confronted with, and whichever way you go, you are satisfied with your choice.  The only person you have to worry about disappointing is yourself, so do what it is that YOU want to do.  In any case, good luck with your endeavors, and I look forward to hearing about the rest of your journey.

Cheers.

Rev


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## serenamorrow (17 Jul 2018)

Hello!

I have been intentionally avoiding the career stuff as I am not sure I would be qualified after medical due to a genetic quirk that was discovered since the last time I applied. Initially selected Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator and Aerospace Control. Third was Intelligence Operator, but sort thinking of changing it to something else as it is a bit cliche. Overall, knowing mindful, almost anything that is more of 'in the moment' roles I tend to thrive in.

At present, getting pretty frustrated, and bit discouraged yesterday, when went in to drop off the reference form. Talked to another different recruiter, who in turn said my references our not valid, despite changing it base on information of last time. According to them, it is the hardest part for many applicants, as they made the requirements stricter. No friends or co-workers or colleagues or acquaintances or anyone would be willing to go out for drinks or go to a restaurant with as they put it. Basically, people I have zero social relations with...yet someone be willing to provide positive reference?

What sort of world they expect applicants to come from where they have no positive social relations with co-workers or bosses? By their definition, literally cannot use almost any of my managers or bosses simply because I've become friends, literally had drinks with, and such during and after period of employment. Only valid ones are the one that will not be give me a positive reference for whatever reason, or would not be appropriate to contact after not hearing from each other in years. So, all my professional references are write offs because of the social component. 

Another thing that baffles me, through their hinting like the previous recruiter spoken with before to fudging how I know them on the form, goes against the whole integrity and honesty requirement. Any one that calls the references would find out how we know each other, and then likely be brought up at an interview which I will not try to fudge or bullshit. It is not appropriate to ask my references to bullshit for me, even knowing some of them would for me. 

Coaches? Invalid due to social relations as also friends and acquaintances. Doctors? GP is friend of the family, and rest do not know me enough while likely not agree to being references anyway. Thinking of a CEO boss employer, but have not seen them in person in years and only interact with online occasionally...but may be invalid because we are FB/Linkedin friends. References from last application would not be valid because they were friends. Volunteering organizations? Friends and acquaintances, yet also dabbles into activism and such that would not be appropriate for references, assuming they would even agree to supporting me join the military. One of the volunteer organization presently part of also the sports organization I play in for over a decade. 

So yes, apologize for bit of rant here, it is frustrating, and have scheduled interview next week. It feels ridiculous, and discouraging, that I would be invalided because I am the sort that prone to have social relations with her professional contacts. Are CF members expected to be teammates and co-workers without being friends, with no trust in the individual members to know the difference between professional and personal...?


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## Xylric (18 Jul 2018)

serenamorrowind said:
			
		

> Hello!
> 
> I have been intentionally avoiding the career stuff as I am not sure I would be qualified after medical due to a genetic quirk that was discovered since the last time I applied. Initially selected Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator and Aerospace Control. Third was Intelligence Operator, but sort thinking of changing it to something else as it is a bit cliche. Overall, knowing mindful, almost anything that is more of 'in the moment' roles I tend to thrive in.
> 
> ...



Two of my references are pastors at my church - I work with the children of one a few times a month, and the other took over my grandfather's ministry after he became unable to continue. The third I used was a mentor of sorts who served as a medevac pilot for the USAF during the Vietnam war. My "employer" reference is quite literally a business partner. It'll be quite interesting to learn if those references are not valid, because to my mind it is not possible to have "non-social" contact with another human being. Perhaps the specific definition they're using in regards to social relationships is highly nuanced?


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## wnhan (19 Jul 2018)

Good luck in your application!


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## Pusser (19 Jul 2018)

serenamorrowind said:
			
		

> Hello!
> 
> I have been intentionally avoiding the career stuff as I am not sure I would be qualified after medical due to a genetic quirk that was discovered since the last time I applied. Initially selected Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator and Aerospace Control. Third was Intelligence Operator, but sort thinking of changing it to something else as it is a bit cliche. Overall, knowing mindful, almost anything that is more of 'in the moment' roles I tend to thrive in.
> 
> ...



Something's amiss here.  I've gone through many security clearances over the last 35 years (it's a regular process and that's a LOT of personal history forms) and with the exception of the initial ones (where giving your 17 year-old buddy lacks credibility), ALL of my references have been friends.  All of them were people with whom I would have a beer (in fact I did, still do and many times did too much).  Who else would know you well enough to speak to your character?  It sounds to me like someone is confusing the actual requirements.

When you're 17, your best friend since kindergarten is probably not a good reference, but when you're 30, he's probably ideal.


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## Remius (19 Jul 2018)

This is from the form. 

just follow that.

_Selecting and preparing your references
A valid reference is defined as an adult (18 years of age or older) that knows you well enough to provide a worthwhile, fair and adequate assessment about
your personal character. Members of your family or relatives, family friends, friends, neighbours, co-workers or peers are not considered valid references.
Your references, either individually or in combination, must have known you for at least the last five (5) continuous years (or to age 16, whichever comes first).
The references can be categorized as follows:
a. Educational references: these persons are former or current teachers, professors, coaches, instructors, or trainers;
b. Professional references: these persons are former or current supervisors, managers, foremen, advisors, or employers; or
c. Personal references: these persons can be a minister, clergyman, mentor, counsellor, or community leader._


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## serenamorrow (24 Jul 2018)

I was. Part of the problem is how I marked down my relation with them, and how answered the recruiter's questions about them. As long avoid any mention of a social relationship beyond the professional or educational or personal, they are valid. 

Anyway, went by the recruitment center to drop of the fifth reference form. I swapped out another with an ex-employer have not seen in awhile yet still in contact with on social media. Only considered them now because of their positive feedback they gave few weeks ago. 

The recruiter saw my CFAT scores and asked if I considered ROTP. I have, yet not sure about the timing for applying for that plus being my 30s. That and seriously have not considered returning to school being my cards I could try to play. Oddly enough, with still possible of other options happening in life or coming up, partially may do that just to prolong the recruitment process a bit without rescheduling or delaying. Only need two more years to complete a bachelor. 

Hmm, will think about it, especially once I year of the result of the job interview I had today as well...and the result of the interview and medical coming up soon.


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## GermanWolf (26 Jul 2018)

serenamorrowind, while I am not completely in a similar boat as you I 100% understand your struggle. I have been in the application process for over a year at this point (due to me needing to finish my degree before being considered qualified for the job). For my references I used two former coaches as well as my boss, all of which I have a great relationship with and have had beers with. I guess I never realized that this is a problem as I believe in the ability of my superiors to distinguish between my character at work and my character at a bar


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## serenamorrow (27 Jul 2018)

I had my interview at recruitment today. It was way more straightforward than I imagined it to be. Some of my civilian job interviews have been more intense. Well, at least my go to strategy of finding a way, intentionally or not, to make the interviewer laugh was a success. I only managed a smile and a chuckle in the job interview I had this past Monday, but resulted in them believing it went really well and I have a second interview tomorrow. Beyond that, that leaves dealing with something I expected I would have to do and medical next week. Medical will be more fun, like 'these are all of the things my body went through with this sport and few mishaps in last eight years...and myself now can still kick my younger self's ass'.


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## jaqen (28 Jul 2018)

Congrats on a good interview!


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## GermanWolf (30 Jul 2018)

serenamorrowind said:
			
		

> I had my interview at recruitment today. It was way more straightforward than I imagined it to be. Some of my civilian job interviews have been more intense. Well, at least my go to strategy of finding a way, intentionally or not, to make the interviewer laugh was a success. I only managed a smile and a chuckle in the job interview I had this past Monday, but resulted in them believing it went really well and I have a second interview tomorrow. Beyond that, that leaves dealing with something I expected I would have to do and medical next week. Medical will be more fun, like 'these are all of the things my body went through with this sport and few mishaps in last eight years...and myself now can still kick my younger self's ***'.



I found the interview super straight forward as well. Lots of yes/no questions and only diving into work experience a little bit. I imagine the second round of interviews will be more intense? I guess you will see. I still have to wait to be contacted for my second round of interviews.


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## serenamorrow (3 Aug 2018)

Now the medical, that will be the most difficult, and most time consuming, to overcome. I knew this, yet felt more hopeful with the interview and everything moving along. 

I supposedly have this genetic quirk that increases the chances of clotting in the blood which was discovered a few years ago after getting a pulmonary embolism. Took two ER trips for doctors to figure out why I was increasingly having problems breathing, first noticed doing sports. Anyway, six months of blood thinners and confirmation the clots are gone, including few others they found in the body, and switched me to another less intensive med after lots of pushing so I may continue do full contact sports. They would never confirm on record at the time, but I highly suspect it was my own mess up by accidentally overdosing with one of my meds that does also increase the risk of clotting. Since it was confirmed that my sibling has this genetic quirk the year before, they said I had it to, as it is hereditary. Well, my mother did a genetic test and she does not have it, and my father supposedly had a genetic test too and also does not have it. Along now with the need to get recruitment medical records, I plan to have a nice chat with the doctor i've been seeing for this quirk to absolutely confirm whether they actually did the genetic test with me. Even if confirmed, sort of genetic quirk where about one percent of the population has, and few percents of those getting any clotting complications from this before 50 years of age. I was fine up until my med goof. If not for that, likely would not been an issue for very much longer. Now, because it has happened on record, it becomes a likely disqualification from the CF because I am taking a preventative med...the sort that only decreases a percentage chance of clotting, not stop it, and the chances of it happening without the med still pretty low as long I am physically active and watch the consumption Vitamin K.  Anyway, I knew this when I applied, yet seek to make the attempt anyway. Also takes forever to get an appointment with dear doctor, and had to miss the last one because of a cold, and their clinic mostly deals with seniors. 

Well, another thing I thought would now be non-issue now that I long resolved the reason why I was blocked/rejected eight years ago, would like me to seek a full psych eval as per the reject letter still anyway. Only reason they made that demand originally is because I appealed the first rejection letter which is now resolved anyway. So, need a more recent follow up to prove on record that I am stable, of sound mind, and have enough mental fortitude for the military. I understand the reasoning, and not angry about it at all, yet still frustrating to needing to jump over hoops. This is one will be the biggest to complete as not easy to find a shrink to do psych evals, especially one comfortable in doing it with the context of military and not going to try forcing/conning me into seeing them for months to a year at time just to sign off on it. On the other hand though, I am oddly curious about my overall mental status.  So this may become win-win at the end?

Yes, already know the common feedback to this and paths to follow, and do understand the reasons and purpose of it all. As mentioned before, rather find out for sure whether I can do this or not than wonder what if for rest of my life.


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