# Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM



## Edward Campbell (9 Nov 2011)

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _OIttawa Citizen_ is, I think a pretty fair assessment of Liberal Party of Canada leader Bob Rae:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Tandt+loud+aches/5676946/story.html


> Den Tandt: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
> 
> By Michael Den Tandt, Postmedia News
> 
> ...




I heard Mr. Rae on the radio today, talking socially _left_, fiscally _right_ sense.


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## Good2Golf (9 Nov 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> ...I heard Mr. Rae on the radio today, talking socially _left_, fiscally _right_ sense.



Ironically, what some of us might liken to be not too far from past PC platforms.

The NDP CoG is vulnernerable now and Rae might just be the one to recover the Liberal's losses to the left and exploit potential NDP self-collapse when/if the Quebec honeymoon sours.


Regards
G2G


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Nov 2011)

Rae's big strike is that he needs Ontario to win.

He'll be dead and buried before, he, our former Premier is forgiven or forgotten by most in this province.

People here still spit when they say his name.


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## a_majoor (9 Nov 2011)

While it is quite easy to believe Mr Rae will flout the rules and attempt to become the "once and future" leader after being the "interim" leader, it is even easier to believe that various factions in the Liberal Party will be waiting in the corridors, behind curtains and in the kitchen with knives out for Mr Rae.

The infighting that surfaces from time to time is still going on, if only because the internal conditions which promoted such infighting have not changed. I suspect that after the Liberal convention bloodbath, the party will be full of bitter people divided against themselves. The NDP may or may not be a contender at that point in time but Steven Harper's CPC will roll the Liberals over post hast.

If the LPC is going to be a contender in 2019 (or even around then), they will have to do a lot more of the core work of defining what, exactly, they stand for, and define it in a positive manner that induces people to vote "for" them on their own merits rather than as an "against the others" vote. Realistically, I don't see this happening anyway, not only because they won't do it but because they can't; the Progressive project is unravelling and the legal, fiscal and moral arguments for Progressivism in any form lie in ruins. The NDP and Greens are entrenched in the ruins (like Russian soldiers in Stalingrad) while the "Classical Liberal" values of liberty, property rights and Rule of Law are (imperfectly) championed by the CPC, and even more voracious small "c" conservative parties on the political Right. There is literally no place for the Liberals to go.

So Bob Rae may go down in history as the man who's ambitions destroyed the Liberal Party through infighting, while history passed it by.


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## Edward Campbell (15 Nov 2011)

And more speculation, by arch anti-Conservative Lawrence Martin, reproduced under the fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/lawrence-martin/and-the-next-liberal-leader-is-bob-rae/article2235985/


> And the next Liberal leader is ... Bob Rae?
> 
> LAWRENCE MARTIN
> From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
> ...




Leave aside the Mark Carney wishful thinking: Martin is committing the standard Liberal sin of looking for a _celebrity_ to lead the party without the need for the drudgery of _renewal_. Even if, and it's a HUGE IF, Mr. Carney has any political ambitions he will note the Ignatieff experience and shake his (wise) head from side to side, indicating "No." Politics is, now, a profession and some serving Conservative and NDP members indicate that it might be one your enter fresh from university.






   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



The Hon. Andrew Scheer, (CPC) Speaker of the House of Commons                                               Laurin Liu (NDP) was elected while still studying at McGill
has never worked at anything except partisan politics:
first as a staffer, then as an MP

Scheer and Liu are the face of the future of politics as a profession.

A factor Martin ignores is that the Liberals have an unwritten, but very strong, _alternating_ rule: leaders are, alternatively, from English and French Canada - people like Martin Cochon and Denis Coderre think they have a _right_ to be leader.

But the next Liberal leader, and the one or even two after that matter to us all. One of therm is far, far more likely to be Prime Minister of Canada and, therefore, to set policy and _tone_ for our country, than is any member of the NDP.


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## a_majoor (16 Nov 2011)

And more on the trials and tribulations of the LPC:

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Liberals%2Breflect%2Bmiss%2Bpoint/5705242/story.html



> *Liberals reflect, but miss the point*
> 
> The Liberals admitted they had no defence against the assaults the Tories launched against St&#233;phane Dion and Michael Ignatieff.
> 
> ...


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## Danjanou (16 Nov 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Rae's big strike is that he needs Ontario to win.
> 
> He'll be dead and buried before, he, our former Premier is forgiven or forgotten by most in this province.
> 
> People here still spit when they say his name.



I hope you're right but I'm wondering. Considering the attention span of our sound bite media pablum fed average Ontario Voter is about the same as a cat with Alzheimer's he may get it. Look what we just did provincially. :


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Nov 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I hope you're right but I'm wondering. Considering the attention span of our sound bite media pablum fed average Ontario Voter is about the same as a cat with Alzheimer's he may get it. Look what we just did provincially. :



The same Union people that let McGuinty back in haven't forgiven Rae for the Raeday vacations and the stab in the back his Dipper gov't doled out to it's grass root supporters.


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## Danjanou (17 Nov 2011)

True and they're usually the minority that get off their fat arse and actually vote. either way I'm keeping my Passport updated and the property tax on the that foreign beach front property paid up.  8)


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## Edward Campbell (30 Dec 2011)

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _National Post_, are some interesting observations on the Liberal Party of Canada's main problem: it's continued idolization of Pierre Trudeau, Canada's worst ever prime minister:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/12/30/kelly-mcparland-liberals-need-less-trudeau-more-mackenzie-king/


> Kelly McParland: Liberals need less Trudeau, more Mackenzie King
> 
> Kelly McParland
> 
> ...




I repeat: I supported the Liberals in the 1960s, when I could first vote. I thought knew that the St Laurent/Pearson _visions_ of Canada, at home and abroad, was better than the Drew/Diefenbaker one. I ceased supporting the Liberals when Mike Pearson bought Marchand, Pelleteier and Trudeau into the party. I also knew that none of them was good for Canada and I disliked Trudeau intensely; I found him a petite, petty, puffed up, poltroon and, at best, a pseudo-intellectual who forswore serious academic work to be a "star" in Québec - talk about being a big fish in a small pond; he made his reputation writing anti-Duplessis articles in magazines with circulation lists of dozens, not hundreds. Given an opposable thumb, my Aunt Florence's pet cat could write credible anti-Duplessis articles.

I would be willing to support the Liberal again IF they elected a John Manley Liberal who would repudiate Trudeau and all his works - none of which, including the (unnecessary) Charter, did anything but harm to Canada - and restore the St Laurent vision of Canada.


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## The Bread Guy (30 Dec 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> .... I would be willing to support the Liberal again IF they elected a John Manley Liberal *who would repudiate Trudeau and all his works* - none of which, including the (unnecessary) Charter, did anything but harm to Canada - and restore the St Laurent vision of Canada.


I'm guessing that bit in red'll _never_ happen, at least in this generation - and with a fils in the caucus, the changeover isn't going to be happening soon.  Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe with enough time in the political wilderness.


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## Good2Golf (30 Dec 2011)

John Manley is the only person who could bring the Liberals FULLY back to relevance.  

Bill Graham could probably do the job to 75-80% of how John Manley could do it.  Unfortunately for the Liberals, however, it seems their options are either "le petit dauphin" of Bob "Ontario still remembers you" Rae.

Regards
G2G


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## Edward Campbell (30 Dec 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> John Manley is the only person who could bring the Liberals FULLY back to relevance.
> 
> Bill Graham could probably do the job to 75-80% of how John Manley could do it.  Unfortunately for the Liberals, however, it seems their options are either "le petit dauphin" of Bob "Ontario still remembers you" Rae.
> 
> ...




I disagree. I think the Liberals have a couple of good potential leaders; leaders who can, probably, unseat Harper's successor, e.g.:






     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Scott Brison                                                              Dominic LeBlanc                                                         Judy Sgro
Good choice - smart fellow                                         Best choice, overall                                                     Could manage in a pinch, has one obvious plus


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## GAP (30 Dec 2011)

and Dominic LeBlanc is tightly tied into the old boy's network like none of the others......


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## Edward Campbell (30 Dec 2011)

GAP said:
			
		

> and Dominic LeBlanc is tightly tied into the old boy's network like none of the others......



He is indeed but he is, also, a shrewd and able politician. The other _Franco_ contenders, Bélanger , Coderre, Cochon, Garneau and Trudeau are either damaged good or lightweights. (I'm not counting  Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North) as either a _Franco_ or a contender.)

I suspect Brison and LeBlanc actually frighten the Tories; unlike Rae or any of the other Liberal leader wannbes.


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## GAP (30 Dec 2011)

Unfortunately, I suspect that whom ever the Libs choose will be chosen with the intent in mind that he/she is only a temporary step until "le petit dauphin" is ready. They are so fixated on Trudeau and offspring, they see no other.


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## ModlrMike (30 Dec 2011)

The Liberals are so blinded by the light of the next shining star that they can't see that they have one food in mid air over the chasm of obscurity.


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## Edward Campbell (30 Dec 2011)

At the risk of repeating myself, we had better hope they survive and prosper because, sooner or later, probably around 2023, we are going throw the Tory rascals out; they will have gotten too stale and too corrupt to stay in power. The NDP cannot grow into a _responsible_, worthy of government, political party without, first, destroying itself and its core beliefs. The only _acceptable_ alternative to a Conservative government is a Liberal one - absent a new centre/centre-right party emerging.


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## GAP (30 Dec 2011)

Awhhh....come on E.R......give Elizabeth a chance huh?  ;D


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## Good2Golf (30 Dec 2011)

Mr. Campbell, if the Liberals truly want to recover from their near auto-immolation, Brison is the one to do it.  Leblanc is smart...lawyer smart (Harvard)...but he's still a lawyer and political scientist.  Brison's involvement in economics, particularly with the US (once it recovers from its current state of affairs) will be the CoG of Federal governmental stewardship.  Liberals will have to look past the cliff of legacy BS that they currently seemed Hell bent on steering towards, and will have to figure out how to regain the center that they foolishly gave up to the Conservatives while they witlessly dabbled farther to the left.  Unfortunately for them, they realized too late in the game, that the flakiness of the far left was something that neither a) they could grab hold of, nor b) be anything of worth.  All the while, the new Conservatives expanded the centrist support from the old PC's base as well as the Blue Liberals who were driven away from the LPC with the leftist "dabbling" and ended up not needing even a hint of Quebec to grab the majority.  If the LPC doesn't sort itself out soon, the CPC will convince another 4-7% of the popular vote that they're not so bad, and that will seal the Lib's fate for quite a while.

 :2c:

Regards
G2G


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## dapaterson (30 Dec 2011)

G2G:  With the majority of the 10% growth of the House occuring in Tory friendy territories, the Toris have no need to seek out any growth.

Which may well be their downfall.  An election in 2015 with another majority; and it's suddenly 2019 with a party that's largely unchanged from 2011.  That sort of stagnation can be deadly - particularly since The Rt Hon Mr Harper will be only 60 and still spoiling for a fight.

On further reflection, Stephen Harper may well be the Tories Achilles heel; he's doing precious little to groom successors.  That can result in a party with no viable leaders once he retires, or with open warfare in the caucus (See Martin, Paul Jr).


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## Edward Campbell (30 Dec 2011)

I agree with G2G re: Brison being the _qualitatively_ better choice, but the Liberals have a tradition of alternating French/English leaders - and Ignatieff and Rae are filling the English slot. Of the available _Francos_ LeBlanc is the *only* choice if the Liberals do not want to commit ritual suicide.


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## Fishbone Jones (31 Dec 2011)

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

* Rae won’t rule out bid for permanent Liberal leadership *  

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/rae-wont-rule-out-bid-for-permanent-liberal-leadership/article2287550/



> Interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae says he’ll stay at the helm of his party until it selects his successor – he just won’t say whether that successor could be him.
> 
> Banned from running under current party rules, Mr. Rae won’t be pinned down on whether he thinks a change in those rules is in order.
> 
> ...


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## ModlrMike (31 Dec 2011)

With Rae at the helm Ont and the Prairies are all but locked up for the Torries. The Liberals will have to continue to campaign from the left if they hope to pick up any seats in Quebec.


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## Journeyman (31 Dec 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> * Rae won’t rule out bid for permanent Liberal leadership *
> 
> Mr. Rae, at an end-of-year news conference in downtown Toronto, attacked the Conservatives on the economy. He said Stephen Harper’s government is out to protect the interests of the rich at the expense of the working class.


Not much progress on shaking his NDP mantra.....


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## exabedtech (31 Dec 2011)

As the Harper government continues to not be the band of evil trolls depicted by their opposition, the Liberals may be forced to actually have a real, believable and economically viable vision for this country rather than simply pandering to special interest groups.  It sure would be nice to have some real debate from strong if different views.  
Unfortunately, what i'm hearing from Rae so far is more of the same make the rich pay crap that did such wonders for Ontario.  What ever happened to the fiscally responsible Liberals???


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## GAP (31 Dec 2011)

exabedtech said:
			
		

> What ever happened to the fiscally responsible Liberals???



 :rofl:   When was that?


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## a_majoor (31 Dec 2011)

GAP said:
			
		

> :rofl:   When was that?



Mackenzie King (1921 to 1948) and Louis St. Laurent (1948-1957). I'm pretty sure Lester Pearson didn't run a ruinous deficit either, although my Google Fu isn't helping today...

These boots are too big for Bob Rae to fill...


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## Old Sweat (31 Dec 2011)

I can't recall the size or indeed if there were any deficits in the Pearson years. However he started the development of the welfare state and I do recall all sorts of tax hikes including a surcharge called a "social development tax." Pearson also began the process of buying "labour peace" with large settlements.


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## Fishbone Jones (31 Dec 2011)

So, let's step back in time a tad and compare then to the article above.


Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110519/110519_rae_leadership?hub=CP24Home

*Bob Rae will not run for Liberal leadership*



> OTTAWA — Bob Rae is shelving his long-term leadership ambitions in order to become interim leader of the devastated federal Liberal party.
> 
> The Toronto MP wrote his caucus colleagues Thursday to advise he's willing to let his name stand for the position of interim leader.
> 
> ...



So, say one thing while planning on making it happen another way? He didn't outright lie, I suppose, technically. He is allowed, I suppose, to change his mind. However, I wonder if this isn't just another version of the shell game the liberals have been playing on the Canadian public for so many years. The Chretian Red Book has numerous cases of "What I said, is not what I meant" and 'No, no, you didn't understand properly what you read' and "I will get rid of the GST" (great untruthful mileage on that one). Is he so sure that the public's political attention span is so small that they wouldn't remember back to May? People are distrustful enough of what our politicians say, this won't help things change that notion or help increase his chances of tumbling Harper.

I can almost guarantee it'll get worked into counter ads put out by the CPC.

In a way, I hope he does clench the brass ring. It'll probably help give the CPC another four year run at no cost to themselves.

My  :2c:


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## OldSolduer (31 Dec 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Not much progress on shaking his NDP mantra.....



Limosine  Liberal 

My  :2c:


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## Edward Campbell (14 Jan 2012)

More, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_, about Bob Rae, would be Liberal leader:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/jeffrey-simpson/the-last-man-standing-will-be-bob-rae/article2302152/


> The last man standing will be … Bob Rae
> 
> JEFFREY SIMPSON
> 
> ...




Simpson makes an uncharacteristically serious political misjudgement: it doesn't matter all that much what the "under 30s" think - they don't vote. The "over 50s" vote in disproportionately large numbers and they will either remember Rae or the Conservative "attack" campaign, which will be vicious, will remind them of why he is a poor choice for Canada.

I have met Bob Rae on a few occasions, I rather like him, as a person; he is thoughtful, well spoken and, generally, likable - but he will be none of those things to most Canadian voters when the Tory attack machine gets through with him.

I'll repeat what I've said elsewhere: we all have an interest in the Liberal Party of Canada doing a good job of rebuilding: they, not the NDP, are the "government in waiting" we want and need. The Liberals need to pick a good leader for 2015 ~ maybe Rae can serve for 2012 and 2013, but someone else will be needed to lead the party back to official opposition status.


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## Good2Golf (14 Jan 2012)

If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.

When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.


Regards
G2G


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## Edward Campbell (14 Jan 2012)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.
> 
> When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.
> 
> ...




The contest this weekend, at this convention, is for Party President, the organizational manager of the Liberal Party of Canada, and Ms. Copps is one of the front-runners.

Rae is likely to contest for Party Leader, the leader of the party in parliament and prime minister in waiting, when that brave soul is, eventually elected.

I'm not sure Ms. Copps will make life as easy for Mr. Rae as outgoing Party President Alf Apps (not a close relation, as far as I know, to the great Syl Apps) is doing/has done.


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## Edward Campbell (14 Jan 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> More, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_, about Bob Rae, would be Liberal leader:
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/jeffrey-simpson/the-last-man-standing-will-be-bob-rae/article2302152/
> 
> ...




I've mentioned before that I follow a regular poll done by CARP - a seniors' advocacy organization; the latest result are:

Conservative	    45.0 %
Liberal    	         21.5 %
NDP	                 13.3 %
Green Party          3.4 %
Bloc Quebecois      0 %
OTHER                  0.5 %
UNDECIDED       16.4 %

The poll is not scientific and it is skewed towards Men (67.4% of respondents) living in Ontario (61.2% of respondents) but it matters because, statistically, people over ago 50 vote in disproportionately high numbers so national, scientific polls are usually wrong because they count the preferences of young Canadians, under 30s, as having equal "value" as those of older Canadians. While their opinions have equal merit their "voting intentions" do not predict outcomes because those young people do not vote. Thus, if the current polls show e.g. The Conservatives at 35% and the NDP at 25% we ought to guess that the *real*, voting booth, outcome is something like Conservatives 37.5% and NDP 20% because the young voters are, disproportionately pro-NDP but their unwillingness to "get out and vote" will cost the NDP and the disproportionate voting of the seniors will benefit the Tories.


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## exabedtech (14 Jan 2012)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.
> 
> When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.
> 
> ...



In that case, i'm cheering for Rae!  Go Rae!!!   ;D


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## a_majoor (15 Jan 2012)

A report from the Liberal convention. I would be interested to discover what exactly the DNC operatives told the Liberal Party (and of course will any Canadian news organization outside of Sun TV even report the LPC has invited American political operatives to instruct them on how to win elections):

http://www.atory01.com/blog/2012/1/14/based-on-today-the-conservatives-will-have-a-long-reign.html



> *Based on today, the Conservatives will have a long reign*
> Saturday, January 14, 2012 at 7:26PM
> 
> Earlier today I said I thought I was in a time warp with the present Liberal convention reminding me of some of our PC Party ones from the 1990s. As the sessions wrapped up today, I haven’t changed my position. Even a few Liberals thought I made a good point.
> ...


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## Fishbone Jones (15 Jan 2012)

They can spin it any way they want. Hold their conventions and end up anointing the most likely suspect.

Ontario knows Sheila Copps as a shill shrieking harpy bent on making people become liberals, whether they want to be or not.

Ontario remembers Bob Rae as the Premier that killed Ontario, created Rae Days and chased industry out of the Province for ten years. He's also playing word games with his Interim Leader\ no Premier bullshit. People can see his power play as plain as day and aren't willing to give him a government, while he's playing the same con artist games he used so effectively when he was elected Premier.

Both need Ontario to win. Whether it's the convention or the government.

Neither has Ontario, and won't get it anytime soon.

Once burnt, twice shy.


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## Rifleman62 (15 Jan 2012)

> Once burnt, twice shy.



That does not include Dalton McGuinty though.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (15 Jan 2012)

That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................


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## Edward Campbell (15 Jan 2012)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................




I agree; the religious and social conservatives, the so called "hard right," whose candidate Mr. Hudak is, have a lot for which they must to answer. Given an acceptable, moderate, Tory leader we might have a sensible, responsible government in Toronto right now ... but, no, we get McGuinty because the Conservatives put _purity_ before power.


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## Good2Golf (15 Jan 2012)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................



Concur.  Hudak's campaign was a 'goat rodeo'.  The phrase "snapping defeat out of the jaws of victory," comes to mind.

McGuinty has never generated anywhere near as much intense hatred as Rae did.  The early to mid-90's were not just part of the "decade of darkness" for the CF....Ontarians were also wondering how bad things could get.


Regards
G2G


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## aesop081 (15 Jan 2012)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................



...and now, unfortunately, McGuinty gets a few years to remind us of why he should never have been re-ellected.


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## Edward Campbell (15 Jan 2012)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.
> 
> When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.
> 
> ...




Looks like the "Blue Liberals" lost; CBC is reporting that Crawley, not Copps, is the nes Party President.


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## GAP (15 Jan 2012)

Ohhhh.....that's gotta stick in her craw...... ;D


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## Edward Campbell (15 Jan 2012)

I'm not sure what it (Crawley as Party President) means for the Liberal Party, which, I repeat, I wish well ... well enough to displace the _Dippers_, anyway.

The Liberals need to renew and rebuild; the convention just ending today does not look, to me, as having been a big step in that direction.


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## GAP (15 Jan 2012)

Crawley looks to be well versed in the backroom functions of the party, whereas Copps' experience is in the storefront operations....not sure how one translates into the other, but they have entirely different focuses and formats, with the same goal.


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## Edward Campbell (18 Jan 2012)

Yet more on Bob Rae and on the (totally without foundation) idea, if it can be called that, that Mark Carney _might_ want to lead the Liberal Party, assuming that he even is a Liberal, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_:



> Bob Rae and beyond: potential contenders for the top Liberal job
> 
> JANE TABER
> 
> ...




I think Rae would be a mistake for the Liberals ... but, hey, I'm a card carrying, paid up to the max, Conservative so who cares what I think, right?

I also suspect that Mark Carney has his sights set elsewhere: maybe the _World Bank_, traditionally an American job and currently held by Robert B. Zoellick, the _International Monetary Fund_, traditionally a European job and currently held by Christine Lagarde, or something like _Goldman Sachs_ where the current CEO, Lloyd C. Blankfein, gets a relatively small salary (only $600K per year) but where, until the crash of 2008, stock options of tens of millions were, routinely, awarded to the most senior executives, year after year.


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## ModlrMike (18 Jan 2012)

I sense that the "supporters" issue might be something that backfires, but in the long run. It looks like it allows people who are not members to vote on who the leader is. However it might just get Rae what he wants. I agree that Rae would be a mistake for the Liberals. I also agree that he's toxic to the 50+ generation of voters to whom he must appeal the most. Rae's ascension to the liberal throne is not going to bring the era of renewal the the liberals so desperately need.

That being said, if they don't make significant gains in the next election (outside Quebec), I'm sure the liberals will throw him under the bus as they've done with every leader since Mr Martin last lost. Which in a Machiavellian way might just be the long term goal.


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## Edward Campbell (18 Jan 2012)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> ... if they don't make significant gains in the next election (outside Quebec), I'm sure the liberals will throw him under the bus as they've done with every leader since Mr Martin last lost. Which in a Machiavellian way might just be the long term goal.




I suspect that a contender like Dominic LeBlanc might make a spirited run this time, aiming to finish a strong second without running up too much debt, knowing that

1. Rae will prevail and will lead the party into the 2015 election;

2. Rae cannot bring the Liberals to power in 2015, but he might unseat the NDP for second place; and

3. By 2017 or so he (Rae) will be far too old and "worn" and it will be time for a young, photogenic, _Francophone_ from outside Québec to lead the party and, maybe even, to win the keys to 24 Sussex Drive in 2019.


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## a_majoor (19 Jan 2012)

The NCC reminds voters of Bob Rae's record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aUF7GwzqYQ&feature=player_embedded

And you thought Mr Dithers, Stephan Dion and Micheal Ignatieff faced attack ads?


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## Edward Campbell (28 Jan 2012)

Part 1 of 2

Here, reproduced in twi parts under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_ is an interesting and somewhat flattering (even a tiny bit fawning) biography of Bob Rae, the man who might become Liberal Party leader but is destined to follow Dion and Ignatieff as leaders who did not become PM:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-liberals-need-a-new-leader-what-about-bob/article2318206/singlepage/#articlecontent


> The Liberals need a new leader: What about Bob?
> 
> SANDRA MARTIN
> 
> ...




End of part 1


----------



## Edward Campbell (28 Jan 2012)

Part 2 of 2



> The best defence . . .
> 
> “What Bob Rae has to worry about are the attack ads,” a pal proclaimed at a Toronto dinner party just after Christmas, alluding to the Conservative tradition of ad-hominem assaults, dating back to Kim Campbell and the television images ridiculing Jean Chrétien's facial deformity in the 1993 election campaign, but especially the way the Conservatives lacerated both Mr. Dion and Mr. Ignatieff – the latter with the much-repeated slogan “He didn't come back for you.”
> 
> ...




I had not heard the story of Michelle Landsberg's prescient observation that _"he_ (Rae)_ is not one of us_ (real, dyed in the wool, born and bred NDPers)_ ... His basic convictions are not ours."_


End of Part 2 of 2


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## Edward Campbell (21 Mar 2012)

Evidently Conservative attack ads are not Bob Rae's only problem, according to this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _National Post[/i}:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/20/john-ivison-conservative-ads-could-force-bob-rae-to-make-decision-on-liberal-leadership/



Conservative ads could force Bob Rae to make decision on Liberal leadership

John Ivison

Mar 20, 2012


You can tell when Bob Rae is getting annoyed — the contrived chuckle is superceded by a sound like a sausage stewing in its own grease. When he was asked about the new Conservative ads that attack his record as Ontario’s NDP Premier on CBC’s Power and Politics, he started to fizz and pop.

The ads ask if Mr. Rae “couldn’t run a province, why does he think he can run Canada?” They have clearly chafed the interim Liberal leader. If the Conservatives are going to highlight all the bad news that happened on his watch, they should also mention the Toronto Blue Jays won two World Series, Nelson Mandela was released from prison and the Soviet Union collapsed, he told Evan Solomon. Eh? Maybe he’d been out in the unseasonally sunny weather too long without a hat.

“I’m not uniquely responsible” for the recession that sent unemployment and deficits soaring in Ontario in the early 1990s, he said. No — but the NDP government made the worst of a bad job, by the account of even the most charitable observers.

Mr. Rae now thinks the Liberal party has a “responsibility” to respond and defend his record as NDP Premier. The party is planning to raise new money in response to the ad and mount a counter-attack with those funds.

This has triggered a backlash from a number of Liberals I spoke to Tuesday, who are uncomfortable about the idea of squandering the party’s meagre war-chest to defend the man who is still, nominally, the interim leader.

In public, Mr. Rae dismisses the thought he might run to be permanent leader as “idle speculation.” But in his own mind, it seems, he already has the job. If you doubt this, go to the Liberal.ca website and scroll to the Meet Bob Rae section, where he is introduced as “Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada.”

“I became Liberal Leader to put my experience to the task of rebuilding our Party and defending the socially compassionate, fiscally responsible values that are at the heart of our vision for a Liberal Canada,” says Bob the Rebuilder. In line 27, you can find the word “interim.”

Senior Conservatives said last year that they weren’t planning to waste their time and money assassinating the character of a stop-gap leader. Perhaps they just got tired of waiting for it to become official.

Whatever the catalyst, it has resuscitated the deep uneasiness many Liberals feel about Mr. Rae continuing to act as interim leader while not ruling out his ambitions to run for the job permanently. In a report last year, former Liberal president Alf Apps suggested it would be unfair for the interim leader to run for the full-time job, given the in-built advantages of incumbency, such as control over caucus appointments and access to party funding and communications resources.

Either from fear or a genuine sense of party unity, none of the MPs or senior party figures who covet the permanent job are prepared to break ranks but neither are they impressed with the idea of spending party funds to defend Mr. Rae’s record as NDP Premier.

Unity is holding for now but pressure is building for Mr. Rae to make a decision: Either renounce any hopes of becoming permanent leader and stay as interim; or, declare his ambition and step down. “People want to know,” said one person with leadership ambitions. “It’s not personal but he’s put himself and the party behind the eight ball.”

Marc Garneau, the Montreal Liberal MP who is testing the waters for a bid of his own, said he would like Mr. Rae to make a decision by the fall. He said he wants to talk to his caucus colleagues before making any comment on whether the Strong Start fund, designed to pay for counter-attack ads, should be tapped to defend Mr. Rae’s record. “When we created the notion of a separate fund, it was for the [permanent] leader,” he said.

Yet Liberals say leadership is the subject that dare not speak its name — certainly not in caucus, where Mr. Rae has never raised it.

And why would he? There’s a chill running along the Liberal benches looking for spine to run up. Until someone forces the issue, Mr. Rae can continue to fashion the game to his own advantage.

National Post
jivison@nationalpost.com

Click to expand...


The Liberal Party has some real leadership problems:

First: By long standing party tradition it is a francophone's turn to lead (but need (s)he be a Québec franco?). Rae is an anglo Ottawa native who was raised and educated there and in Washington and Europe; he attended the University of Toronto and Oxford; that pedigree hardly puts him in the league of Laurier, St Laurent, Trudeau, Chrétien and Dion; and

Second: The party may have seen the errors of its ways in having been focused too much in the leader and too little in the potential cabinet team. To be fair this problem is neither new nor uniquely Liberals.

As a card carrying, dues paying Conservative I rather hope Bob Rae becomes the leader - despite being smart, a good parliamentary performer and, even, charming, I am 99.99% convinced that he cannot lead the Liberals back into power in 2015, and either or both of age and Liberal long knives will deny him an opportunity to do so in 2019.
_


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## Edward Campbell (21 Mar 2012)

Here is a reverse view, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/bob-rae-attack-ad-shows-its-a-liberal-revival-the-tories-fear-most/article2376179/


> Bob Rae attack ad shows it’s a Liberal revival the Tories fear most
> 
> JOHN IBBITSON
> 
> ...




While I agree that Bob Rae is a very effective HoC debater and does well on TV - where he almost always gets a _sympathetic_ interview - I really doubt he can revitalize a political party that has lost its way and, I think its _purpose_. The big danger for the Liberals will come from a Mulcair led NDP which will try to move towards the political centre, squeezing the Liberals out.

I think the Conservatives are engaging a target of opportunity, they are not wasting ammunition - Rae is a worthwhile, legitimate target, but the full fire plan - aimed at damaging both the Liberals and the NDP - will not be unleashed until later this year and it will grow in intensity until the campaign, proper, in 2015.


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## Rifleman62 (21 Mar 2012)

I think that if the LPC elects a francophone to be the leader, it will confirm the LPC is old Canada, and new Canada will not vote for the Liberals. It will be worse if the new leader is a Québec franco. 

We are sick to the teeth with Quebec and it's constant whining.

My bucket list includes throwing out bilingualism (sorta Bill 101 for Canada), while still offering Federal services in French and English as dictated by population percentages in that area.


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## Jed (21 Mar 2012)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> I think that if the LPC elects a francophone to be the leader, it will confirm the LPC is old Canada, and new Canada will not vote for the Liberals. It will be worse if the new leader is a Québec franco.
> 
> We are sick to the teeth with Quebec and it's constant whining.
> 
> My bucket list includes throwing out bilingualism (sorta Bill 101 for Canada), while still offering Federal services in French and English as dictated by population percentages in that area.



Wow, pretty sacreligious there, R62.   I think I will put this on my bucket list too.


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## jollyjacktar (21 Mar 2012)

I would expect that the voter results seen in Layton's old riding during the By-election does not bode well for CPC.  Mind you a great deal can happen between now and 2015, however, if this Robocall issue takes wing and necessitates numerous new By-elections the CPC will take a beating in every riding involved.  This could be a game changer for the LPC in returning from the dead and back into power in 3 years.  I'm sure Rae must be on the horns of a dilemma with drooling in anticipation and the to be or not to be-ish of it all.  The sounds of squirrels that must be running in their cages at the LPC headquarters right now must be deafening.   >


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## ModlrMike (21 Mar 2012)

There was never any chance that Layton's seat would not remain in the hands of the NDP. The vote numbers have absolutely no bearing on the national scene. WRT robocall et al, Elections Canada has already stated that they had no bearing on the outcome of the election. Don't hold your breath waiting for by elections. That being said, the after effects for the guilty party may be spectacular.


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## jollyjacktar (21 Mar 2012)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> There was never any chance that Layton's seat would not remain in the hands of the NDP. The vote numbers have absolutely no bearing on the national scene. WRT robocall et al, Elections Canada has already stated that they had no bearing on the outcome of the election. Don't hold your breath waiting for by elections. That being said, the after effects for the guilty party may be spectacular.


Of course Layton's seat was pretty safe, no issue.  Was not aware that EC said no on outcome of vote.  If the election was being held today the results might be vastly different.  I don't believe there would be a majority for sure and maybe not even a minority for the CPC, people are mighty pissed off.  Whomever is responsible for the Robocall issue is going to rue it when the smoke clears.


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## Rifleman62 (21 Mar 2012)

jollyjacktar: 





> people are mighty pissed off



Who, why?

Even the CBC ....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/19/pol-political-traction-mar10-16.html

*Robocalls stall in Ottawa*

Interest in the controversy over fraudulent election calls fell substantially in Ottawa, where pundits focused on the government's decision to support an NDP motion to give Elections Canada stronger investigative tools. Outside Ottawa, Canadians were more interested in Pierre Poutine and the Guelph case, but an overall downward trend suggests Ottawa pundits, media and Canadians are losing interest as the opposition fails to deliver a "silver bullet." The clock is ticking for the opposition to produce a knock-out punch on this issue, with the NDP convention and federal budget about to dominate the conversation.


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## jollyjacktar (21 Mar 2012)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> jollyjacktar:
> Who, why?
> 
> Even the CBC ....
> ...


Folks here in Halifax are cranky judging by the Newstalk Radio.  They were interviewing one of the Ottawa based hacks today and he indicated that seeing as Circus is out of session this week things have slowed down.  He said that EC is still on the job and it will take it's own sweet time.  The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind finely.  Maybe things will cool off, but I expect they will soon boil over if the heat turns on again.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Mar 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Folks here in Halifax are cranky judging by the Newstalk Radio.  They were interviewing one of the Ottawa based hacks today and he indicated that seeing as Circus is out of session this week things have slowed down.  He said that EC is still on the job and it will take it's own sweet time.  The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind finely.  Maybe things will cool off, but I expect they will soon boil over if the heat turns on again.



Folks in Halifax are always cranky. They don't need a reason


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## jollyjacktar (21 Mar 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Folks in Halifax are always cranky. They don't need a reason


Well that's true more often than not.  They do seem to have a hate on for the PM and his party.  Today, however, with such fine weather outside everyone is in a good humour.  It'll be back to bitchin next week when we get more snow and Parliament resumes.


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## Jed (21 Mar 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Well that's true more often than not.  They do seem to have a hate on for the PM and his party.  Today, however, with such fine weather outside everyone is in a good humour.  It'll be back to bitchin next week when we get more snow and Parliament resumes.



I bet they wear their suspenders and belt at the same time with pants pulled up to their chest as they complain about the government full time. Just like me.  >


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## jollyjacktar (21 Mar 2012)

Jed said:
			
		

> I bet they wear their suspenders and belt at the same time with pants pulled up to their chest as they complain about the government full time. Just like me.  >


You mean "those" suspenders and garter belt with the underpants pulled up to the chest...  >


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## mad dog 2020 (4 Apr 2012)

Abandon Ship, 
"Rae demands Harper resign over stealth fighter fiasco"
Can you just imagine if this was done. 
RAE or Mulchair in the pilot seat. 
Talk about power hungry and at what price to us.


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## jollyjacktar (4 Apr 2012)

I keep hearing how the press have been bailing on Bob everytime Mulcair sticks his nose out the door.  That must really rot him to the core.   ;D


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## OldSolduer (4 Apr 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I keep hearing how the press have been bailing on Bob everytime Mulcair sticks his nose out the door.  That must really rot him to the core.   ;D



IMO neither one could organize a one man race to a two hole crapper. Limosine liberals. 

At least Jack rode a bike.


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## jollyjacktar (4 Apr 2012)

Oh, you should not tempt a poor sailor to make quips about riding bikes...  > :-X


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## OldSolduer (4 Apr 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Oh, you should not tempt a poor sailor to make quips about riding bikes...  > :-X



I dare ya...double dog dare...... >


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## mad dog 2020 (4 Apr 2012)

MP generous pension? Yes the limousine Liberals

"The musing followed interim Liberal leader Bob Rae's comment that Mulroney's government changed the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act just as he was leaving office so that prime ministers would get the equivalent of two-thirds of his or her salary at age 65.

In fact, the retirement allowance for prime ministers was actually brought in under the Liberal government of Lester Pearson and later revised under Pierre Trudeau — a mistake the current Grits have since apologized for."


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Apr 2012)

mad dog 2020 said:
			
		

> MP generous pension? Yes the limousine Liberals
> 
> "The musing followed interim Liberal leader Bob Rae's comment that Mulroney's government changed the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act just as he was leaving office so that prime ministers would get the equivalent of two-thirds of his or her salary at age 65.
> 
> In fact, the retirement allowance for prime ministers was actually brought in under the Liberal government of Lester Pearson and later revised under Pierre Trudeau — a mistake the current Grits have since apologized for."



Rae keeps forgetting that Canadians (Ontarians more so) don't have the conveniently short memories he wishes we had.

He seems to be surpassing his predecessor's image of pompous ignorance and out of touch reality. Not to mention his ever increasing insignificance.

It seems Mulcair is playing games. Everytime Rae gets the Press corp gathered around, Mulcair sticks his head in the door and they run to him, leaving Rae standing there looking like a goof. (oops seen that's already been noticed and posted) 8)


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## GAP (4 Apr 2012)

But it is funny


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Apr 2012)

GAP said:
			
		

> But it is funny



Immensely so


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## Oldgateboatdriver (4 Apr 2012)

When the liberals adopted all those wonderful measures that built the limousine, Rae was an NDPer - That's why he keeps forgetting that it was the party he now leads that adopted them.


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## Edward Campbell (30 May 2012)

More on Rae and the Liberal leadership in this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/wholl-lead-the-liberals-for-the-next-year/article2447233/


> Who’ll lead the Liberals for the next year?
> 
> JOHN IBBITSON
> 
> ...




Now, I'm a card carrying Conservative and a believer in Napoleon's maxim that one should never interrupt and enemy while he is busy making mistakes, but if I was a card carrying Liberal my choice for leader would not, ever, under any circumstances, be Bob Rae - he has too much baggage and he is too old. Rae will be 64 years old this summer, 67 when we get to the 2015 election; Stephen Harper is 53/will be 56 and Thomas Mulcair is 58 and will be 61 in 2015. Canadian society may be getting older and some older men have been excellent political leaders but, on balance, Rae's age is a drawback.

The leader the Liberals *need* is Scott Brison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but I believe him when he says he doesn't want the job now. The next leader should be:

1. Young;

2. A _Francophone_; but

3. Not from Québec; and

4. An excellent communicator on TV.

So I'll repeat myself and say that Dominic Leblanc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from NB is the best choice to lead the Liberals into the 2015 election which, I will also repeat, needs to be fought against the NDP.


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## dapaterson (30 May 2012)

However, Leblanc also has baggage - family baggage that I am certain Harper _et al_ would latch on to quickly.


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## Edward Campbell (30 May 2012)

The Liberals, like the Tories, are short on saints. 

Look ate Rae's _front bench_:

1. Goodale is out on language;

2. Garneau has a past - personal past, messy divorce, etc - and a shallow following, I think;

3. Lamoureux? Who's Kevin Lamoureux? (He served three years in the CF; started (never finished?) a degree at University of Winnipeg; got elected as a MLA then MP)

4. Foote?  :ditto: except no CF service

5. And so it goes ... except for Bélanger, Brison, Bennett, Coderre, McGuinty, Leblanc and McCallum it is has-beens piled upon non-entities. That's why Rae looks attractive on the surface, from a distance ... at least he's a "somebody."

The Liberals are in a fight for their political lives - Harper and Mulcair are united in wanting them gone. They need a leader who can appeal to the same people who voted for Mulcair last time ... younger Canadians, Quebecers, urbanites; they can't win power in 2015, not unless both Harper and Mulcair do some incredibly (and uncharacteristically) stupid things, but they can aim to push the NDP back to third party status and retake _Stornoway_. I am convinced that Rae will fail in that task. As the lead article says, he aches to be PM ... what the Liberal Party of Canada needs is someone who wants to be opposition leader and will get the aim right: beat the NDP in 2015.


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## GAP (30 May 2012)

> 3. Lamoureux? Who's Kevin Lamoureux? (He served three years in the CF; started (never finished?) a degree at University of Winnipeg; got elected as a MLA then MP)



Under Axworthy's tutelage


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## a_majoor (30 May 2012)

I notice the Young Dauphin isn't getting much mention here (eve though he was the cover story of a recent Maclean's magazine recently suggesting that he, indeed become the next leader of the LPC).

Exposure to the real world and especially the stupid gaffe about supporting Quebec separation have probably driven a stake through the heart of that idea. The media and true believers will keep the flame alive, though...


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## Edward Campbell (12 Jun 2012)

Lawrence Martin is, I think, correct in his assertions, in this column, which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions oft he Copyright Act from the _Globe and Mail_, that:

1. Bob Rae is not the right man to lead a Liberal Party that is in need of renewal; and

2. Selecting Justin Trudeau to lead the party would be a gift to Stephen Harper's Conservatives.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/justin-trudeau-is-the-best-hope-for-liberals-and-conservatives/article4249423/


> Justin Trudeau is the best hope for Liberals – and Conservatives
> 
> LAWRENCE MARTIN
> 
> ...




I am on record as recommending, with the best will in he world, that the Liberals should select a young, telegenic French Canadian leader; I just think that Justin Trudeau is the wrong guy - essentially for the reasons Martin gives: "His entry would rouse the Conservative base" and we must doubt "whether he has the discipline, the knowledge, the moxie to face down the mega-ton of malice that would come his way."

The Liberals need renewal, not a return to the 1960s and '70s, which is what both Rae and Trudeau offer. The famous _Kingston Conference_, sponsored by Lester Pearson and facilitated by Tom Kent, was a huge but, eventually, worthwhile (politically) risk. The pale imitation Ignatieff hosted in 2009 just recycled the '60s and '70s. The Liberals must recognize that Stephen Harper is reshaping Canada - partially because many (most?) Canadians recognize that the Trudeau prescriptions from the 1970s (economic, social and strategic) did not accomplish what he suggested they would or could. The country is looking for new directions; Canadians are not persuaded that Stephen Harper offers the only, much less the best, choice; Thomas Mulcair will offer a clear vision, but it is being discredited in Europe as we speak; there is, there must be, something between Harper's small government _conservatism_ (which is, really, old fashioned _liberalism_) and Mulcair's big government, tax/spend _liberalism_ (which is really looking for a throwback to simpler times, as _conservatives_ tend to do); the Liberal Party of Canada needs to develop and enunciate that position; I doubt either Rae or Trudeau can or will.


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## a_majoor (12 Jun 2012)

Liberal Party lurkers can flash this to LPCHQ

I have had the misfortune to see Justin Trudeau speak in person, his delivery was boring and his speech a rehash of stuff he must have learned at Uncle Fidel's knee. Outside of carfully scripted and managed media events  (where he can be _made_ to look charismatic) I think you will discover a disaster waiting to happen. Couple that to the tendency to spout off ill informed comments like the one about supporting separatism because he doesn't like the current government's direction and even I'd make a better leader (and my political philosophy is about 180o from the LPC's).

So while the destruction of the LPC is probably Steven Harper and Thomas Mulcair's long game, the idea of Thomas Mulcair actually being PM is probably even more frightening. The fact the LPC dosn't have any bench strength to draw leadership candidates from isn't a hopeful sign; if their choices are really only Bob Rae and the Young Dauphin then the LPC will need a miracle to turn themselves around.


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## Brad Sallows (12 Jun 2012)

Justin does not have his father's intellectual capability or discipline.  I can't hold anyone in high regard, who holds a high regard of Justin and thinks he merits being leader of the LPC.


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## OldSolduer (12 Jun 2012)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> Justin does not have his father's intellectual capability or discipline.  I can't hold anyone in high regard, who holds a high regard of Justin and thinks he merits being leader of the LPC.



One of my bosses mentioned he liked PET....as we live in the West I told him that very few here share his view.  PET was despised and not liked.


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## 2 Cdo (13 Jun 2012)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> Justin does not have his father's intellectual capability or discipline.  I can't hold anyone in high regard, who holds a high regard of Justin and thinks he merits being leader of the LPC.



His father didn't have his intellectual capacity either!


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## Edward Campbell (13 Jun 2012)

So, Rae won’t seek Liberal leadership, the _Globe and Mail_ reports, saying “It hasn’t been an easy decision,” but “I think it’s best for the party and it’s a decision that I feel comfortable with.” (He should have said "it's a decision with which I feel comfortable" but, what the hell, good grammar never was a mandatory qualification for high elected office.)

In the _Globe and Mail_ report (link above) John Ibbitson says:



> By stepping aside from the contest, Mr. Rae has eliminated one possibility of a polarized race that could have led to increased factional bitterness after the result, whatever the result.
> 
> Others who are mulling leadership bids –  MPs Dominic Leblanc, Mac Garneau, David McGuinty, and former MPs Gerard Kennedy and Martha Hall Findlay, among others – will reconsider their positions, now that there is a much more even playing field in which a lesser name will have a better shot at capturing the leadership of the troubled third party.
> 
> But many who believe the Liberals are in danger of extinction unless they find someone who can galvanize progressive support in Quebec and Ontario will argue that Mr. Trudeau must now step forward, even though he has repeatedly said he is not planning to run.




If Justin Trudeau does decide to _enter the lists_ the Conservatives will do their level best to humiliate and destroy him; they don't just want to see the last of the Liberals, they hate the late Pierre Trudeau; they hate everything for which he stood; they hate everything he said and did to Canadians (_for_ Canadians, I guess, if you are a Trudeau fan); and they will relish the prospect of disposing of Pierre Trudeau's memory by consigning his son to ignoble defeat and to history's trash heap. It will be ugly.


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## Old Sweat (13 Jun 2012)

Ooops! I guess he decided not to ache anymore. He ain't going to run no more, no more . . . at least for the leadership. Here is another take on his decision.

This story from the National Post's website is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provision of the Copyright Act.


Bob Rae won’t run for Liberal leadership as all eyes now turn to Justin Trudeau
Josh Visser  Jun 13, 2012 – 1:03 PM ET | Last Updated: Jun 13, 2012 1:12 PM ET 

Bob Rae concludes with Shakespeare sonnet

The painful warrior famoused for fight,
After a thousand victories once foiled,
Is from the book of honour razed quite,
And all the rest forgot for which he toiled:
Then happy I, that loveand am beloved,
Where I may not remove nor be removed.
– William Shakespeare’s Sonnet 25

Ending months of speculation, Liberal interim leader Bob Rae says he will stick to his original pledge to not run for his party’s permanent leadership job.

“I’ve concluded that the way I can best serve my party is to not run for the permanent position,” he told reporters Wednesday.

“(The decision) didn’t come quickly as some as you will know for having watched me skate and then dance and then skate again through many scrums during scrums and individual interviews,” he told reporters. 

Rae says he took the job with every intention of not running for the permanent job but as time went on more Liberals began asking him if he would consider running for leadership.

He said he’s been “wrestling” with the question for several months and made up his mind on the weekend.

But Rae’s interest in the permanent job came with a lot of criticism. His political opponents said he couldn’t be taken at his word, while some Liberal supporters thought it was time for the party to embrace someone with less political baggage.

While Rae said it was best for his party for him to not run for the permanent job, he did not explain why that might be so.

“I got a lot of support from the caucus in terms of considering to run for the permanent leadership but quite frankly, the best thing I can do is to continue my work as interim leader,” he said. “This is a time for renewal for the party.”

Possibly in an effort to end speculation before it had a chance to be written up on political blogs, Rae said his health and personal life was great. He also said his age — he’s 63 — was not preventing him from running, and added he was not retiring from politics.

“There’s going to be commentary on the age question, but I think that’s bullshit,” he said bluntly.

Rae admitted that he was not in an ideal political situation.

“Look, I would have liked to have won in 2006,” he said, referring to his eventual loss to Stephane Dion.

With Rae out, all eyes will likely turn to Quebec MP Justin Trudeau, who has repeatedly said he’s not ready to run for his party’s leadership. However, he is easily his party’s most recognizable MP after Rae and a recent Ipsos Reid poll suggested Canadians preferred him to other Liberal leadership contenders by a nearly two-to-one margin.

Other possible contenders include astronaut-turned-MP Marc Garneau, Ottawa MP David McGuinty (Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty’s brother), New Brunswick MP Dominic LeBlanc and one-time leadership candidate Gerard Kennedy.

Rae said his role in the race would be to be a “benign father figure” and he won’t be endorsing anyone.

With the Liberals running a distant third in the polls after the Conservatives and the NDP, there have been calls for the Grits to consider some sort of merger with the NDP. The proposal will likely be a significant issue in the Liberal leadership race.

NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair was asked about the proposition Wednesday, but said it was his mandate to unite all “progressives” under the NDP banner.

“I have absolutely no advice to give the Liberals on whom they pick as their leader,” Mulcair said in a scrum after a caucus meeting Wednesday.

Rae took the interim position after former leader Michael Ignatieff resigned following last May’s election disaster. Rae, a former NDP premier of Ontario, agreed to take the job on an interim basis while the party regrouped and started its search for the leader to carry it into the next election.

That condition was placed because as interim leader his prominence in the party could be seen as an unfair advantage if he was also running for the permanent job.

The Liberals are to hold a leadership vote at a convention that will occur between March and June of 2013.

In May, the Liberals’ national board approved a motion to allow non-party members to vote in the next leadership race. Any Canadian will be allowed to become a “supporter” — giving them the ability to vote — without having to pay any pesky membership fees.


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## Remius (13 Jun 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> If Justin Trudeau does decide to _enter the lists_ the Conservatives will do their level best to humiliate and destroy him; they don't just want to see the last of the Liberals, they hate the late Pierre Trudeau; they hate everything for which he stood; they hate everything he said and did to Canadians (_for_ Canadians, I guess, if you are a Trudeau fan); and they will relish the prospect of disposing of Pierre Trudeau's memory by consigning his son to ignoble defeat and to history's trash heap. It will be ugly.



They will do their level best to humiliate and destroy *anyone* who steps up and becomes the liberal leader.


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## Edward Campbell (13 Jun 2012)

Crantor said:
			
		

> They will do their level best to humiliate and destroy *anyone* who steps up and becomes the liberal leader.




Yes but Trudeau, IF he decides to offer himself as target sacrificial lamb leader will be _special_.


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## fraserdw (13 Jun 2012)

Sonnet 25....he thinks alot of himself!


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## Edward Campbell (19 Jun 2013)

_CBC News_ is saying, right now, that Bob Rae will announce his retirement as an MP "shortly." He has, apparently, scheduled a news conference for 1100 Hrs (Ottawa).


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## GAP (19 Jun 2013)

Maybe he's going back to Ontario politics. At least they elect him....they've seen the light....Hallelujah !!


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## Remius (19 Jun 2013)

GAP said:
			
		

> Maybe he's going back to Ontario politics. At least they elect him....they've seen the light....Hallelujah !!



He could run for Mcguinty's seat in South Ottawa.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jun 2013)

Crantor said:
			
		

> He could run for Mcguinty's seat in South Ottawa.


I can't speak for the riding, but I think folks remember his days as Premier - and not with an eye to putting him back into the job.


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## Remius (19 Jun 2013)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I can't speak for the riding, but I think folks remember his days as Premier - and not with an eye to putting him back into the job.



I was being sarcastic tbh.  It's viewed as a safe liberal seat but I'm not sure this time around.  The conservative candidate was pretty good last election.  I'm likely to vote against the liberals in the by-election.  If anything to send a message about the latest shenanigans.


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## Danjanou (19 Jun 2013)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> _CBC News_ is saying, right now, that Bob Rae will announce his retirement as an MP "shortly." He has, apparently, scheduled a news conference for 1100 Hrs (Ottawa).



His local office/action centre is around the corner. To bad the he didn't hold it there. I could have wanderd over at lunch with a juice box.  >



> ....devote his time to First Nations issues


 Yeah him and Theresa Spence should make the ultimate tag team.  :


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## GAP (19 Jun 2013)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Yeah him and Theresa Spence should make the ultimate tag team.  :



Hey!! Don't forget that Paul Martin and his supply of napkins has got their back!! That's gotta count for something.....anyone?.... :crickets:


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## Robert0288 (19 Jun 2013)

Crantor said:
			
		

> He could run for Mcguinty's seat in South Ottawa.



As an Ottawa South resident who has had to endure both McSquinty's for a number of years, I hope not.  Also having a monsterous extended family living in the riding definately helps with the campaigning/fundraising effort.


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## a_majoor (19 Jun 2013)

> He could run for Mcguinty's seat in South Ottawa.




When a Liberal volunteer phones/canvasses or otherwise contacts you, tell them you will vote for whoever puts McGuinty behind bars, and see what sort of response that gets you... >


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## Robert0288 (19 Jun 2013)

Either a short cut to the do not call list.  Or you will now end up on every single 10%er mail out for the rest of your life, along with frequent phone calls right around the 530-630 time frame.


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## Colin Parkinson (20 Jun 2013)

I tell Liberal loyalist that if they love their party, lock the old guard and their polices into a building and burn it down. Start fresh, focus on building grassroots support, the phoenix cannot raise till it have been consumed by flames, it's a great metaphor for the party. Right now you have a lame duck, missing most of it's feathers and trailing smoke from it's butt and blindly flopping about. They should have done this in 2006. The CPC is nearing the point where they are beginning to believe they are the true rulers of Canada and will likely need the punt soon enough, but who to replace them with?


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jun 2013)

On the possible skids or not, at least the CPC doesn't go around, like the liberals still do, calling itself the 'Natural Governing Party'. Especially when the libs are running just ahead of Elizabeth May in seats and don't have a pot to piss in.


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## Edward Campbell (20 Jun 2013)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I tell Liberal loyalist that if they love their party, lock the old guard and their polices into a building and burn it down. Start fresh, focus on building grassroots support, the phoenix cannot raise till it have been consumed by flames, it's a great metaphor for the party. Right now you have a lame duck, missing most of it's feathers and trailing smoke from it's butt and blindly flopping about. They should have done this in 2006. The CPC is nearing the point where they are beginning to believe they are the true rulers of Canada and will likely need the punt soon enough, but who to replace them with?




That's the point I was trying to make in the Liberal Leadership thread: "We need to wish the Liberal Party of Canada well. We know that the Conservatives will grow stale, corrupt and disconnected after too many years in power ~ it happens to all political parties in all real democracies, even Japan, Taiwan and, sooner or later, Singapore. Right now the "government in waiting" is the NDP. That is, I suggest, a bad choice for Canada so we, all Canadians including hard-core Conservatives like me, need a centrist "government in waiting" and, baring a seismic shift in Canadian politics that means the Liberals."

I am a Conservative partisan and have been since around 1965 ~ when Lester B Pearson recruited his "three wise men," Jean Marchand, Gérard Pelletier and Pierre Trudeau and, thereby, set Canada on the wrong course. But I *know* that "the Conservatives will grow stale, corrupt and disconnected after too many years in power," because I have been observing politics for 50+ years and I understand that Lord Acton was right when he said that "power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Majority government have near absolute power and that's both why we elect them and why we need to take power away from them on a pretty regular basis. The depression/wartime/post war Liberals were in power for far too long in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. Pierre Trudeau's Liberals were in power for too long in the 1960s, '70s and '80s. The Conservatives, we will find, will have been too long in power in the 2000s and 2010s.


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## dapaterson (20 Jun 2013)

recceguy said:
			
		

> On the possible skids or not, at least the CPC doesn't go around, like the liberals still do, calling itself the 'Natural Governing Party'. Especially when the libs are running just ahead of Elizabeth May in seats and don't have a pot to piss in.



It's not that long ago that you could fit the entire federal Conservative caucus into an Austin Mini and have room to spare.  Things can change on a dime - a week is a long time in politics.


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## Nemo888 (20 Jun 2013)

Rae had no backbone. He flipflopped so often he lost all credibility. Reminds me a bit of the Peter McKay flame out of the last couple of years. McKay was PM material 6 years ago. Sounds ridiculous now. If Harper left now who could replace him?


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## Good2Golf (21 Jun 2013)

By "flame out", do you mean the manner in which he has chosen (and chosen is the right word) to remain minister of the largest department in the government? Harper and MacKay have a clear understanding and an agreement -- the Alliance wouldn't have become the CPC without MacKay an his (primarily central/Eastern-based) PCs.  If MacKay walked tomorrow, Harper woul no longer have a majority.  Mackay has always had a connection with more of the central-left than Harper. You and others should not be so quick to write off a young, culturally attuned guy who has appeal to a rather divers cross-section of Canada. MacKay would probably not have much trouble giving "fresh, young" (but inexperienced) Trudeau something to think about in 2015. Perhaps if Harper assessed that the time is right to make good with MacKay per their silent agreement of '05, he'll hand over to macKay right when Trudeau is telling Canadians how stale the conservatives are.

:2c:

Regards
G2G


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## Edward Campbell (22 Sep 2013)

Back to Bob Rae in this fascinating vignette from Susan Delacourt which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from _TheStar.com_:

http://read.thestar.com/?origref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalnewswatch.com%2F?origref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalnewswatch.com%2F#!/article/523da6b4ec0691abfe1957a4-michael-ignatieff-writes-of-hard-lessons-learned-in-politics
My emphasis added


> Michael Ignatieff writes of hard lessons learned in politics
> *Michael Ignatieff has sifted through the debris of his failed political career and written Fire and Ashes, a book of lessons learned.*
> 
> By: Susan Delacourt, Parliament Hill
> ...


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## Kirkhill (22 Sep 2013)

John Rae's tale is a fascinating one that deserves to be explored some day.    Has anyone written his biography?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Sep 2013)

Not surprised,.......Rae had no love for the working man or Canadians in general, he just needed power, any power.


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## The Bread Guy (22 Sep 2013)

Re:  "he wasn't in our party", uh, neither was Bob at the start.


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## a_majoor (23 Sep 2013)

And also interesting is how politics is a "family affair", Bob Rae and his brother, the McGuinty clan, the Young Dauphin's presumption of heir apparent (and Peter Mackay inheriting the family "business", or even Preston Manning following his father on the conservative side. insert your own example <here>).

One thing novice candidates learn quickly (if they want to graduate into verteran politicans) is having good ideas and a silver tounge is never enough; the power of money and good connections to build your team far outweighs almost any other consideration...


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