# Browning Hi-Power on G&A Top 10 Handguns that Changed History



## COBRA-6 (28 Jan 2006)

Picked up the Feb 06 issue of Guns & Ammo at the PX last week, opened it up and staring back at me on page 58 is an identical pistol to the one strapped to my leg! 

The Browning Hi-Power was chosen as one of the top 10 influential handguns, primarily because it was the "_first practical high-capacity military pistol_". 

"_First appearing in 1935, chambered in 9mm Parabellum, the 13 + 1 round... took the world by storm. Initially adopted by Belgium, Lithuania, Romania and Denmark, it was used by both sides during the Second World War and by just about everyone else afterward. _" 

What's neat is the the example pictured is a Canadian Hi-Power, the serial number looks to be 6T6483, and there's a worn-off maple leaf sticker on the front of the magazine housing. 

Cheers


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## Slim (28 Jan 2006)

Favoured weapon of the SAS in Northern Ireland as well!


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## Armymedic (28 Jan 2006)

I think the term that may be used in this case is:

Classic.


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## R031button (28 Jan 2006)

The only problem is that usually things identified as "classic" aren't issued to modern militiaries...


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Jan 2006)

I'm not looking for a big discussion or new thread here, but the problem with our HPs is that they are worn out. There is nothing wrong with a new HP, it is still a damn fine pistol. The double action argument only applies to someone that has fired thousands of rounds and has become proficient using it. If your really intent on the double action aspect, the HP is available in DA (Double Action), DAO (Double Action Only) and the BDM (Browning Double Mode) which has a lever to switch between single and double action. Don't like 9 MM? Its also avail in .40 S&W and .357 Sig.

Speaking of Sigs, if those are your bag, both the DA / DAO models and the BDM model borrow features from the SIG-Sauer Sig P220 pistols marketed under the name Browning Double Action (BDA) in the 1970s. 

The HP hasn't carried the moniker "King of the Nines" for all these years for no reason. 

It's not the pistols fault. The blame belongs with the military that let them degenerate to paper weights.


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## NL_engineer (28 Jan 2006)

Reading this thread reminded me of one of my junior high teachers; he was an ex AF poilet, and said that the CF's 9mm's are more accurate when thrown. :threat:
I personally believe that the CF should adopt a Sig 10mm (40 S&W), if they want to keep with the classics maybe they should get us some M1911s. ;D

Just my 2 cents


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Jan 2006)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Reading this thread reminded me of one of my junior high teachers; he was an ex AF poilet, and said that the CF's 9mm's are more accurate when thrown. :threat:



Being an ex AF poilet, (that anything like a toi...ah forget it), that probably would have been his only recourse, not knowing how to load or operate it. (Man, Duey, zoomie, Inch and the rest are goinna be mad at me  ) I've fired lot's of them and always hit what I was aiming at. They won't keyhole, but they'll ventilate a Fig 11 without problem.


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## Armymedic (28 Jan 2006)

I got a reconditioned Browning on my tour in Aghanistan last yr.

From 10m could cover a 26 round group with both hands.

Redone they shoot just fine.


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## COBRA-6 (29 Jan 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I got a reconditioned Browning on my tour in Aghanistan last yr.
> 
> From 10m could cover a 26 round group with both hands.
> 
> Redone they shoot just fine.



+1 , and with new mags right out of the plastic, I haven't had a single stopage yet, even using eastern-European ammo.


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Jan 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I got a reconditioned Browning on my tour in Aghanistan last yr.
> 
> From 10m could cover a 26 round group with both hands.
> 
> Redone they shoot just fine.



LOL. The one I had over there rattled like a Senoritas castanets, but at 10 - 25 mtrs they would all be in the body. New mags are definitely a must. (Even if you gotta bring your own.)


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## Ex-Dragoon (29 Jan 2006)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Reading this thread reminded me of one of my junior high teachers; he was an ex AF poilet, and said that the CF's 9mm's are more accurate when thrown. :threat:
> I personally believe that the CF should adopt a Sig 10mm (40 S&W), if they want to keep with the classics maybe they should get us some M1911s. ;D
> 
> Just my 2 cents



: and then we would not be able to get supplies off of our allies. What other country uses the 10mm for standard service weapon?


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## KevinB (29 Jan 2006)

Glock    cheap and simple and goes bang every time.

 I love Sig's and BHP's in good shape -- however once again the CF has more telling small arms issues than a new pistol.


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## Armymatters (29 Jan 2006)

With my HK USP. Tested to the same standards as the related HK Mk23 pistol that was designed for U.S. Special Operations Command. Testing included being frozen to -42 °C and fired, frozen again, and then be heated up to 67 °C and fired, the standard NATO Mil-Spec mud and rain tests, etc. They deliberately lodged a bullet in a USP barrel. Another cartridge was then fired into the obstructing bullet. The second bullet cleared the barrel, resulting in a barely noticeable bulge. The pistol was then fired for accuracy and the resulting group measured less than 4 inches at 25 meters. Now that's punishment.


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## Kal (29 Jan 2006)

Armymatters said:
			
		

> With my HK USP. Tested to the same standards as the related HK Mk23 pistol that was designed for U.S. Special Operations Command. Testing included being frozen to -42 °C and fired, frozen again, and then be heated up to 67 °C and fired, the standard NATO Mil-Spec mud and rain tests, etc. They deliberately lodged a bullet in a USP barrel. Another cartridge was then fired into the obstructing bullet. The second bullet cleared the barrel, resulting in a barely noticeable bulge. The pistol was then fired for accuracy and the resulting group measured less than 4 inches at 25 meters. Now that's punishment.



Yeah, but can it shoot under water???   

+1 though.  I really like the controls on them.  I've HEARD that the LEM configuration is a nice defensive trigger.  Maybe someone who has seen it used or that has used it could chime in.


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## NL_engineer (29 Jan 2006)

The FBI use a 10mm, but I am not shore who else uses them.


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Jan 2006)

So I guess we could just borrow it off them then.


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## COBRA-6 (30 Jan 2006)

NATO standard is the 9mm, so we're stuck with that, even if the FBI uses 10mm...

Kev are you going to the range anytime soon? I want to try your G19!  ;D


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## Armymatters (30 Jan 2006)

The Americans use .45ACP for their special forces... the .45 round is better silenced (it's a lower velocity round), has more stoppage power without the tendancy to overpenetrate, and has excellent accuracy. There are plenty of double stacked pistols that use the .45ACP, for example, the Canadian Para-Ordinance P14-45 (a high capacity clone of the Colt M1911), HK's Mark 23 Mod 0 and the USP Tactical, and GLOCK 21.


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## Ex-Dragoon (30 Jan 2006)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> The FBI use a 10mm, but I am not shore who else uses them.



The FBI isn't military....


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## COBRA-6 (30 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> The FBI isn't military....



Exactly, 9mm is NATO standard, regardless what some SF units may use.

Besides, the shooter's accuracy is much more important than the calibre of his pistol. It doesn't matter if you're shooting .50AE if you miss the bad guy...

When I'm shooting at a SF level, then I'll start thinking about .45ACP vs. 9mm... until then, 9mm rounds are less expensive, and that means more time on the range, improving marksmanship!


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## chanman (30 Jan 2006)

The Danish Sirius Patrol Glocks are in 10mm.  Of course, it's the exception in that regard...



> The choice of a Sirius Patrol pistol was also determined  by concerns about encounters with aggressive polar bears. Most Danish units use 9mm automatics like the CF



http://www.sfu.ca/casr/id-arcticviking4sb-1.htm


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## KevinB (30 Jan 2006)

Okay FWIW the FBI dropped the 10mm round and the S&W 1006 it was issued in.
  They now issue  ;D guess what ?  Glock 23 in .40S&W

Mike -- this whole place is a range - we can just pull over on a  drive to Bagram  
 I have a few extra boxes of JHP - but if you have some ball you want to shoot? 
We have some rnage time coming up - I will keep you info'd (well as best as my CoC keeps me informed  :-\)

The HK USP and Mk23 are boat anchors - crap.
 HK's new .45 is a winner - however it does not look like a timely civilian release anytime soon.

Other than that Armymatter please STFU - the US Special Forces use the Berretta M9 like the rest of the US mil.  The only exception are some USSOCOM units, like CAG (Delta) with the 1911 in .45 and the 9mm Glock19 (a rotational thing), USN DevGrp (also 1911) some of the ST's with Sig P226's, and the USMC's MEUSOC and MARSOC dets with 1911's as well. (only the gunfighter portion of MEUSOC rates the MEUSOC .45 the rest get the M9)

ParaOrd is a POS


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## Bruce Monkhouse (30 Jan 2006)

...but my book says they do....... ;D


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## COBRA-6 (30 Jan 2006)

Kev, roger that. I think I can dig up some ball as well.



			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ...but my book says they do....... ;D



 :rofl:


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## SeaKingTacco (5 Feb 2006)

I remember getting to 119 AD Bty in 1989 as a young 2Lt and getting issued my first Browning Hi Power.  It was still sealed in a bag, had 1944 stamped on it and I was the first owner.  Never had a problem with it.


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## Pearson (5 Feb 2006)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ...but my book says they do....... ;D


Don't you mean video game?  :dontpanic:

 so I study Strategic Studies and hope to be a DND bureaucrat


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## Cabose (7 Feb 2006)

Kal said:
			
		

> Yeah, but can it shoot under water???


Can the BHP shoot under water *please say yes please say yes*

excuse my lack of knowladge I'm not officaly part of the CF yet.
Cabose


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## Kal (7 Feb 2006)

Cabose said:
			
		

> Can the BHP shoot under water *please say yes please say yes*
> 
> excuse my lack of knowladge I'm not officaly part of the CF yet.
> Cabose



I was kidding, bro....


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## Cabose (7 Feb 2006)

Damn I thought so


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## TCBF (8 Feb 2006)

"The FBI use a 10mm, but I am not (sure) who else uses them."

As KevinB pointed out, they went to .40 S&W.  They liked the 10mm Norma 200 grain/1200 fps cartridge, but soon realized that few agents would be able to qualify with it!

So they wanted it tamed a bit, at which point somebody said "Since we don't need all that propellant anymore, we don't need all of that cartridge case capacity either, do we?  So, why not shorten the cartridge case, and then we can adopt a smaller frame handgun with a larger double stack mag capacity?"

So it was out with the 10mm, in with the .40 S&W.

Case closed.

Tom


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## geo (8 Feb 2006)

R031button said:
			
		

> The only problem is that usually things identified as "classic" aren't issued to modern militiaries...


The 45 COLT is another Classic.... and a lot of Americans still love that monster.


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## Good2Golf (9 Feb 2006)

...although the BHP/P35 is lcearly derived from the 1911 (hence why my Fobus C-21 holster for 1911 fits the BHP so nicely.)  John Browning took the best of the 1911 and added further refinements to it.  G & A did state that if it were the Top 11, the 1911 would have been #11.

Cheers,
Duey


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## KevinB (9 Feb 2006)

Well actually they said the G17 would be 11  

and Friends dont let friends use FOBUS....


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## Good2Golf (9 Feb 2006)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Well actually they said the G17 would be 11
> 
> and Friends dont let friends use FOBUS....



Dang, you're right Kev, Colt was/would have been #12...

...what, the Fobus is worse than that Bianchi POS they issue us with?

Cheers,
Duey


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## TCBF (9 Feb 2006)

"The FN plant was seized by the Germans during World War II, and the Nazis produced the Hi Power for their own troops. Meanwhile, Dieudonné Saive fled Belgium and eventually settled in Toronto, Canada, helping the John Inglis Co. produce Hi Powers there for Nationalist Chinese, British, Canadian and Greek forces. Thus, both sides made use of the P35 pistol during the war. A well-known variation of the gun was the Capitan model (shown above and below) that incorporated tangent sights graduated to 500 meters and a detachable wooden combination holster/shoulder stock.
   Still in production in 2004, the Hi Power remains in use by militaries and citizenries around the world and, despite myriad new designs, maintains favor for those same qualities that drew acclaim initially. While many may contend that this venerable single-action gun has been equaled, few will say that it has ever been surpassed. "

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/BrowningHPPistol.asp

Had he not died in 1926, it would have been interesting to see what changes JMB  himself would have made to the P35 HP AND the 1911A1.  

Tom


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## teddy49 (9 Feb 2006)

How did the 1911 not make the top 10.  I know that you can find more elements of the Hi-Power in modern pistols, then you will find of the 1911.  But I would think that it deserves the top 10, if only for it's continued success and sales numbers.  The Colt Single Action Army and it's copies likely deserve to be on the list for that reason as well.  I'm not overwhelmed with 1911 love, though I have 2.  But I'm astonished that it didn't make the list of an American gun rag like G&A.

Oh yeah, and like Kevin said, Friends don't let friends use Fobus.  Or Uncle Mikes.


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## KevinB (10 Feb 2006)

Duey -- as I mentioned last night -- yeah its better for your role than the Bianchi POS.
 However the constuction is weak and fails in any retention issue.

 I will bring a Bladetech IWB and Safariland 6004 back for our compadre...


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Feb 2006)

I read the article last night, the reason the 1911 did not make the top ten, is that it did not influence other designs, whereas the Hi-power really started the world onto reliable 9mm semi-auto’s. It was not the “ten best” but the ten that had the most influence. The 1911 really does not have much of a following outside of the US, I was in Malaysia and all of the shooters that I talked to there found the 1911 hard to handle with their smaller hands.

I did not really agree with inclusion of the Walter P38 and thought that the Glock G17 was a better candidate. I also wonder if the broomhandle had more influence than the Luger, but the Luger did stick around longer.

Also didn’t FN produce the compact .32 semi-auto before Colt?

They also included the C3 colt top break, did that gun come before the British Webelys or after?


Of course a US gun mag is the pinnacle of unbiased firearms advice and opinions, right?


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## DG-41 (10 Feb 2006)

> that incorporated tangent sights graduated to 500 meters



Yow!

At the Atlantic Area pistol competition in the late 90s, the first line serial was 10 rounds, 1 handed, standing, at the 100m point... and I think the target was either the 1m screen or maybe 2XFig11 side by each. I don't remember my score... but it wasn't high. Nobody's was.

500m with a Hi-Power? What's that setting for, engaging the broad side of barns?

DG


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## geo (10 Feb 2006)

(no one said it was going to be easy)
BHPs, at one point could be fitted with a butt - making it easier to control..... I guess


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## TCBF (11 Feb 2006)

1980.  Cost me a cassete tape on a bet.  Chinese contract BHP with fitted shouder stock/holster at 500 yards at a 4' target.  Hint: do this in the summer where you can walk the dust into the target - not the winter like I did.

Tom


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## geo (11 Feb 2006)

hehe..... and you're that much the wiser for the lesson


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## TCBF (11 Feb 2006)

Well, no ..., not really.

 ;D

Tom


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## NATO Boy (13 Feb 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> "The FN plant was seized by the Germans during World War II, and the Nazis produced the Hi Power for their own troops. Meanwhile, Dieudonné Saive fled Belgium and eventually settled in Toronto, Canada, helping the John Inglis Co. produce Hi Powers there for Nationalist Chinese, British, Canadian and Greek forces. Thus, both sides made use of the P35 pistol during the war. A well-known variation of the gun was the Capitan model (shown above and below) that incorporated tangent sights graduated to 500 meters and a detachable wooden combination holster/shoulder stock.
> Still in production in 2004, the Hi Power remains in use by militaries and citizenries around the world and, despite myriad new designs, maintains favor for those same qualities that drew acclaim initially. While many may contend that this venerable single-action gun has been equaled, few will say that it has ever been surpassed. "
> 
> http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/BrowningHPPistol.asp
> ...



What makes this history tidbit even better is that Inglis was a washing machine/sewing machine company. Who woulda thought?


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## DG-41 (13 Feb 2006)

That's not all that unusual. FMC, the people who make (made?) the M113 APC, are "Food Machinery Company"

DG


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## mudgunner49 (13 Feb 2006)

RecceDG said:
			
		

> That's not all that unusual. FMC, the people who make (made?) the M113 APC, are "Food Machinery Company"
> 
> DG



...and 1911's were produced by the Singer Sewing Machine co., and the Inland Division of General Motors (which also produced .30 M1 carbines IIRC)...


blake


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## NATO Boy (13 Feb 2006)

I know...the list can go on and on... I just can't help but chuckle.  (neither can the new guys in the unit when I tell them the story about our issued sidearm.) Inglis also made Bren Guns (after diving a little deeper.)


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## geo (13 Feb 2006)

You should have a look at some of the Sten guns that were made during WW2.
a "plumbers nightmare" indeed.


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## NATO Boy (13 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> You should have a look at some of the Sten guns that were made during WW2.
> a "plumbers nightmare" indeed.



Oh, how very true. And to think that the original plans for the Sten Gun were drawn on a napkin in a bombed-out hotel in England. Wow.


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## TCBF (13 Feb 2006)

I owned an Inglis Bren (converted auto) once.  I ordered 1000 rds of surplus Mk VIIIZ  - or whatever - Ball, and it came in two wooden cases marked "Kynoch 1964".  Each wooden case held two big tins that opened like a sardine (or Russian SAA) can.  Open up the can and one would find  ...   a 250 rd cloth Vickers Gun belt.

Check out our .50 cal. Browning HMGs, the one on my last Lynx was made by AC Sparkplug Division.

Tom


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## teddy49 (13 Feb 2006)

RecceDG said:
			
		

> That's not all that unusual. FMC, the people who make (made?) the M113 APC, are "Food Machinery Company"
> 
> DG



Actually I'm pretty sure that FMC is the Fuller Machine Corporation.  They make the Bradley as well.


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## George Wallace (14 Feb 2006)

teddy49 said:
			
		

> Actually I'm pretty sure that FMC is the Fuller Machine Corporation.  They make the Bradley as well.


And years ago I heard it was "Fruit Machine Corporation" of California, who produced machinery for the harvesting of Fruit in California.  Oh well....we could all be right.....different incarnations of the same company over the last fifty or so years.


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## DG-41 (14 Feb 2006)

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m113.htm



> The M113-family was developed the from M59 and M75 which were designed by FMC (Food Machinery Corp.) in the late 1950´s.



It was also on the ID plate inside the vehicle - that's where I first noticed it.

While we're at it:

http://www.fmcsgvs.com/content/about/history.htm

DG


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## geo (14 Feb 2006)

FMC.... that's something hard to digest 

When you have a company that makes one specific product and the market gets saturated by it (or c/o many competitors).... you have to go out & find newer pastures to pick.


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## GOF (15 Feb 2006)

I also saw a BHP in a gunshop that had the old Nazi Eagle with Swastika stamp on it.  Evidently it was manufactured in Belgian during the Nazi occupation.  That was the story I was told... any feedback?  Just wish I had the money to buy it...oh well.


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## big bad john (15 Feb 2006)

GOF said:
			
		

> I also saw a BHP in a gunshop that had the old Nazi Eagle with Swastika stamp on it.  Evidently it was manufactured in Belgian during the Nazi occupation.  That was the story I was told... any feedback?  Just wish I had the money to buy it...oh well.



They were made by FN during the occupation.


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## TCBF (15 Feb 2006)

"any feedback?"

- Sure, from just above:




			
				TCBF said:
			
		

> "The FN plant was seized by the Germans during World War II, and the Nazis produced the Hi Power for their own troops. Meanwhile, Dieudonné Saive fled Belgium and eventually settled in Toronto, Canada, helping the John Inglis Co. produce Hi Powers there for Nationalist Chinese, British, Canadian and Greek forces. Thus, both sides made use of the P35 pistol during the war. A well-known variation of the gun was the Capitan model (shown above and below) that incorporated tangent sights graduated to 500 meters and a detachable wooden combination holster/shoulder stock.
> Still in production in 2004, the Hi Power remains in use by militaries and citizenries around the world and, despite myriad new designs, maintains favor for those same qualities that drew acclaim initially. While many may contend that this venerable single-action gun has been equaled, few will say that it has ever been surpassed. "
> 
> http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/BrowningHPPistol.asp
> ...


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## NATO Boy (16 Feb 2006)

I like the appearance of this Bulgarian clone...











Pretty badass for a 70+ year old design.

Edited for image issues...


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## GOF (16 Feb 2006)

Pretty badass for a 70+ year old design....

Amen to that, I still like the Browning.


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## Armymatters (16 Feb 2006)

Pretty much any fine sewing machine company can be easily switched over in times of war to a pistol factory. HK got its start by a pair of Mauser engineers which were able to save whatever they could after the Mauser factory was dismantled by the Allies after World War II, and started a fine machining company manufacturering sewing machines and other fine mechanics. They were able to land the reformed Bundeswher's contract for a new German Army rifle, which became the G3.


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## TCBF (16 Feb 2006)

"They were able to land the reformed Bundeswher's contract for a new German Army rifle, which became the G3"

- Hiding out in Spain and building the CETME was good practice! 
- Anybody own a surplus G1?

Tom


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## Armymatters (16 Feb 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> "They were able to land the reformed Bundeswher's contract for a new German Army rifle, which became the G3"
> 
> - Hiding out in Spain and building the CETME was good practice!
> - Anybody own a surplus G1?
> ...



And the CETME was based off the World War II StG 44 assault rifle, the first successful assault rifle of its kind. The German goverment purchased a license to build the rifle in Germany, after the Belgiums refused to sell a license to Germany for the FN FAL. The Germans then gave the license to HK, which started producing the rifles, abeit with some modifications to the Bundeswher's needs


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## TCBF (16 Feb 2006)

Funny, I thought the FN FAL (the G1 in German service) was rejected for some spurious reason (line of sight too high - will result in too many head wounds) by the Germans themselves.

Oddly, the Swiss  current rifle (5.6 mm: what we call 5.56mm)  has a sight similar to the G3, and their web sight talks of the low line of sight reducing head wounds.   

Tom


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## Armymatters (16 Feb 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> Funny, I thought the FN FAL (the G1 in German service) was rejected for some spurious reason (line of sight too high - will result in too many head wounds) by the Germans themselves.
> 
> Oddly, the Swiss  current rifle (5.6 mm: what we call 5.56mm)  has a sight similar to the G3, and their web sight talks of the low line of sight reducing head wounds.
> 
> Tom



The main reason was that the Germans wanted licensed production, and the Belgiums, naturally, refused to sell a license to the Germans. Mind you, this was 5 years after World War II had ended so the wounds of the war were still fresh and open at the time.


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## TangoTwoBravo (16 Feb 2006)

At the risk of causing a tangent, a late-war German infantry squad looks a lot like today's infantry squads in terms of weapons.  Assault rifles, one or two excellent GPMGs and some panzerfausts that look suspiciously like RPGs.  I'd venture that night vision equipment is the one major leap since then.

I'm taking an HP and I'm cool with it (not that I have a choice).


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## TCBF (17 Feb 2006)

I stand corrected:

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearms/assault/g3ka4.html:

The genesis of the G3 (Gewehr or Rifle) Battle Rifle actually took place 14 years prior to its adoption and initial production by Heckler & Koch GmbH.

During WWII, an engineering team at Mauser headed by Ludwig Vorgrimler adapted a roller-locking delayed blowback form of operation for use in the second-generation Sturmgewehr (assault rifle), designated StG.45. Succeeding the gas piston-operated StG.44, the StG.45 also fired the 7.92x33mm Kurz cartridge. However, the war was brought to an end before production of the StG.45 could begin in earnest.

After the war, Vorgrimler and several other German engineers eventually resumed development of the roller locking design at the Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales (CETME), Spain's small arms development center located in Seville. The rifle was designed around an experimental 7.92x40mm cartridge.

When the American 7.62x51mm T65 cartridge was standardized by NATO in 1954, the German Bundesgrenzschütz (Federal Border Guard) tested several 7.62x51mm-chambered rifles, including the Fabrique Nationale FAL (G1), the SIG SG510 (G2), the CETME Modelo A (G3), and the Armalite AR-10 (G4). Out of these, the FN FAL was accepted for service as the G1. However, Fabrique Nationale would not license post-war Germany to produce the FAL. The CETME rifle was then chosen to replace the G1. A manufacturing license was transferred from the Dutch NVM company to Heckler & Koch and production began in 1959.

The legendary G3 Battle Rifle has been used by more than 50 nations since its introduction, including Germany, Greece, Iran, Mexico, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, Sweden and Turkey. It was the official infantry rifle of the German Bundeswehr from 1959 to 1995, when it was replaced by another Heckler & Koch rifle, the G36. As of 2002, Heckler & Koch have ceased production of the G3A3 rifle.

Designed for paratroopers and vehicle crews, the G3KA4 differs from the G3A3 by including a shortened 12.4" (315mm) barrel and a retractable shoulder stock. Due to its modular design, many options are available for the G3A3 and other HK roller-locked weapons.


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## TCBF (17 Feb 2006)

Since we are touching on surplus firearms...

"That old, beat up, cosmoline-coated rifle sitting in the gun shop (for a hundred bucks) is the ticket to escape the postmodern matrix. It is a tool that leads to further knowledge. Most do not even realize that this escape has happened, but it likely happens to all who accumulate surplus weapons. Unlike most in our society, we are not frogs, sitting in their pans of water, waiting for the heat to be turned up. 

A good idea would be for each person (collector) who reads this to “turn” one of his (or her) postmodern drone comrades. Take them out to shoot your SKS (or whatever), explain to them the history of the rifle. Many people, amazingly enough, have never been exposed to, or fired, a gun. Most, you will find, are not anti-gun, but they have simply never given the matter much thought. There are very few people who do not find shooting enjoyable, once they have tried it. Have them shoot at a target big enough for them to hit, maybe a one-gallon milk jug full of water at 30 yards. Bring them back again to shoot some more. Take them to a gun show or store and maybe they will buy their own firearm. After that, invite them over, buy a few beers and maybe rent Network, and explain to them the way things really are.

Once you teach them the truth, tell them they have a duty to “turn” someone as well.

Sic Semper Tyrannis 


Darren Locke"


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Feb 2006)

We're starting to slide off topic here guys. Let's stick to the HP. If you want to discuss something else, let us know and we'll split this off.


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## Colin Parkinson (27 Feb 2006)

Wasn’t there a post here about a bunch of new FN Hi-powers that were shipped to a military with the sears misshaped causing AD’s? I remember reading about how FN had to send out 2,000 new sears, with much embarrassment. 

Anyone here tried out the Argentina made Hi-powers (FM?) They have one that you can switch from the classic to the Detective model in a matter of minutes, it looked nice in the gun mag (but then they always do)


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## geo (27 Feb 2006)

Defective sears - Wes brought up the subject, FN delivery to Aus.
t'was fixed post haste - once the problem was identified & reported.
Poor Quality control by the look of things - mark that off to sub contractors and not checking the work that was submitted.


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