# Canadians are ignorant about defence/military



## Edward Campbell (6 Apr 2012)

I found this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _National Post_, interesting, even though I disagree with some of the author's points:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/06/matt-gurney-canadas-ignorant-about-the-military-despite-huge-budget-requirements/


> Canada’s ignorant about the military despite huge budget requirements
> 
> Matt Gurney
> 
> ...




Suggesting that Canadians' deeply entrenched ignorance of and apathy about military matters is a "danger to democracy" is going a bit overboard; ditto suggesting that in "educating" politicians and senior bureaucrats military officers skew the agenda. But, there is little doubt that politicians and bureaucrats have little appetite for the technical details of modern military matters ~ nor should they, not any more than, say, the Minister of Natural Resources needs to understand the technical complexity of disposing of the waste from pulp and paper plants: it's a problem; we have experts; they recommend a range of options; ministers select the one that can a) be afforded and b) get the job done just well enough.

I do agree with Prof. Bland that we need to strengthen the military's ties to the community ~ restoring the old UNTD and COTC programmes, and helping reserve force members (officers and other ranks) to pay of loans at a higher rate if they stay in reserve units after graduation might be a way to help. Both would require more resources including more paid Class A billets in reserve units.

I have often said, and I firmly believe that Canadians' "support" for the troops is a mile wide but only an inch deep; that is, in large part, a consequence of the ignorance that Profs Sarty and Bland bemoan.


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## ModlrMike (6 Apr 2012)

Much of the current level of ignorance can probably be ascribed to the period from the end of Korea to the start of Bosnia (1960ish -  1995ish). During that period the military was "out of sight out of mind", unless some budget cutting was in order. Just my opinion of course, but one borne of direct observation. Many Canadians firmly believe in the falsely created mythology of the CF as peacekeepers, with little thought to the reality of struggling with ever declining resources, hostile governments, and self appointed social engineers; all the while trying to maintain proficiency in the CF's primary task - the defence of Canada.


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## fraserdw (6 Apr 2012)

Four things have left us with our current ignorance of military issues:

a.  Political unease with the closeness of our military with the American military.  This is a result of us spending more time with Americans than the average Canadian.  Most political Canadians use this relationship to define how they think of us and to decide hwo we are budgeted.  There is a very large anti US bigotry in Canadian political circles.   Honestly, Canada does not have to spent a cent on defense and we will still be defended, we can complain about the USA and we will still be defended.  It is a win win for Canadians but because the CF is close the US military it is a loss for us politically.  We would be better of on a continent of our own or a smaller nation surrounded by other like nations.

b.  The lack of the Canadian military in the lives of Canadians, super bases have left vast parts of the country with no day to day military presence.  Honestly, the reserves do not count in this (people still look at them based on who they know in the local reserves). 

c.  The Peacekeeper legend, more than anything Canadians see us as little more than an over armed police force for the third world.  As long as we have rifles and half ton trucks, we are considered well supplied.  Who ever started that legend needs to be courtmartialed.

d.   The disconnect between serving Canadians and veteran Canadians.  This is changing but the largest veterans organization in Canada still remains an organization run and controlled by a generation of people who never served in the military.  Anyone who served in the 70s and 80s will remember how upset the Legion got if anyone called a CF retiree a veteran.  There are other veterans groups but they do not have the political clout that the Royal Canadian Legion has.  The Legion is focused on veterans welfare and makes very few pronoucements on defense and defense spending unlike US veterans groups.  The Legion tries but it is largely failing the current generation as witnessed by the number of veterans groups coming up.


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## Kirkhill (6 Apr 2012)

> Enforcement and oversight, therefore, has to come from within Defence — and that’s hard. “A lot of promising political careers come to an end at Defence,” Mr. Bland said. “It’s a difficult, complicated department, with fingers in a lot of other ministry’s pies with a lot of other ministries`fingers in its pie.



Where is/should be the emphasis?


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## Edward Campbell (6 Apr 2012)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Where is/should be the emphasis?




I can vouch, from personal experience, that DND does have fingers in other departments' pies - often pretty big, powerful fingers and sometimes unwelcome. In the case of my gang directorate, we worked very hard, with our colleagues in the other department, to craft a mutually acceptable MOU, which I am pleased to say was renewed at its tenth anniversary, after I was long gone, but there was still friction when I insisted on DND's _rights_ or, at least, _privileges_. Yes, other department's have fingers in DND's pies, too (and DND has many pies), so I would say it is about even.


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## Retired AF Guy (6 Apr 2012)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Much of the current level of ignorance can probably be ascribed to the period from the end of Korea to the start of Bosnia (1960ish -  1995ish). During that period the military was "out of sight out of mind", unless some budget cutting was in order. Just my opinion of course, but one borne of direct observation. Many Canadians firmly believe in the falsely created mythology of the CF as peacekeepers, with little thought to the reality of struggling with ever declining resources, hostile governments, and self appointed social engineers; all the while trying to maintain proficiency in the CF's primary task - the defence of Canada.



Another factor may be about how much military history is taught in our schools or the lack thereof? Comments from folks with kids presently in the school system or have personnel experience might be appreciated.


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## GAP (6 Apr 2012)

I just asked my 14 yr old grandson.....does the school ever talk to you guys about the CF in any manner, peacekeeping, anything military at all?

answer: nothing. absolutely nothing. The only reason he knows anything about the CF is because of his uncles and me.


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## Robert0288 (7 Apr 2012)

Grade 10 history in Ontario as of 5 years ago when I had a family member do it did cover some of the Canadian contributions in ww1, ww2, and then 'peacekeeping' during the cold war. I don't know what the newest curriculum is.


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## a_majoor (9 Apr 2012)

When I come to my children's schools for Remembrance day (one in public school, one in high school now); I am treated like some exotic mythical creature. This has been the case over the years as the children have grown and moved from Montessori school, to different elementary schools and now one high school. In every case I am seemingly the _only_ parent who is a serving member, and with few exceptions (mostly in much larger schools) are there students with relatives who have served in the past. Even Cadets are very rare, usually only a small handful; at the high school with a student body of @ 2000 only one Cadet was in uniform for the Remembrance day assembly.

With such a tiny amount of interaction, it is quite easy to see why most Canadians seem to base their ideas on the military from "Full Metal Jacket" or computer games, if they have any idea about us at all.

Of course I am quite careful in how I pitch the message for the students, so the mythical creature does not turn into a hungry raptor in their (or their parent and teacher's) minds.


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## Teeps74 (9 Apr 2012)

This comes back to a previous argument of mine.  We have to do more to make our presence felt in the communities in which we live, and even communities where we do not live.  Something as simple as stopping for groceries on the way home from work in uniform, is a very simple reminder that, "we exist, and we are just like you...".

We have to connect and stay connected with the Canadian population, as without the civilians, we are just an easy nameless budget to be slashed.

Now, the problem. How do we connect without drumming up the whole "fascist" question? I do not see a requirement for many parades (the occasional freedom of the city parade would not harm tho), but perhaps something as simple as rewarding troops for volunteer time in the community. 

Our disconnect places us and our budget in danger and frankly, our disconnect is our fault.


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## Furniture (9 Apr 2012)

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> This comes back to a previous argument of mine.  We have to do more to make our presence felt in the communities in which we live, and even communities where we do not live.  Something as simple as stopping for groceries on the way home from work in uniform, is a very simple reminder that, "we exist, and we are just like you...".



This is something I strongly agree with. We need to be seen by the people we represent around the world. The old custom of changing out of uniform to travel to and from work needs to disappear, we need to be seen in public as "normal" people so that the average Canadian taxpayer sees who and what we are. This of course means that we must apply the standards of dress and deportment so that we present the best face to the word.


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## opp550 (10 Apr 2012)

> I just asked my 14 yr old grandson.....does the school ever talk to you guys about the CF in any manner, peacekeeping, anything military at all?
> 
> answer: nothing. absolutely nothing. The only reason he knows anything about the CF is because of his uncles and me.



As someone who is currently in high school, I can attest to that level of knowledge present in today's youth, except for the one's who either have relatives in or are actively interested in military service (Which, as my presence on this site probably gives away, includes me)

I even ran into a few cadets who did not seem to know the difference between Regular and Reserves.


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## Kalatzi (10 Apr 2012)

How's this for a thought?

I suggest that one cause is the dwindling number/percentage of the population that have served in the military. 

For example, one of the key factors that lead influenced me was that almost all of my senior male family members, and many of the females had served. 

Their experiences were a constant source of conversation/exaggeration, that inspired impressionable young minds. 

Now that I'm a bit older, I can now understand their focus on the good times, liberating a winery, for example. 

I once worked with another group, that wanted to expand its profile in the community. 

We used all sorts of maketing techniques/tricks to no avail, urged on by promise of public goodies. 

One of the senior members/dinosaurs suggested that what we needed to do was to expand the base of those involved, using a pyramid as an example.

Think  timbits hockey  ... ....

KInda like cadets ... ... 

Cadets /Coat  have their challenges, but as I composed this, I feel they may be the last connection to the Citizen/Soldier - Militia

Yes, way oversimplistic.


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## RememberanceDay (10 Apr 2012)

Grade 10 history:

Haha. What a joke. We covered WW1 for almost a month, I learned nothing I already knew. On the other hand, I have been studying the WWs and other CF events since I could read (about 2 years old... Sitting on my daddy's knee.). On many occasions, I taught the teacher. IN HIS SUPPORT, though, he collects many artifacts from WW1 and 2, and brought them in, so props for that.

Remembrance day: Last November.

I helped organize this, I was the main student. We did a play on the life and death of Kevin McKay, a local boy, whom I had met. It was well-written and interesting. I had to teach full drill to 8 grade 12 guys, who would rather be checking out the hot girls. Soon put them in their place, I did. The focus was on the recent Afghanistan war, and featured stories by vets read out by students in full combat gear (borrowed, minus the weapons). We had to have 2 assemblies, to accommodate 450 students. We had three cadets in unifrom (myself and to others), one from each element. One, the air cadet, attended the community ceremony as a representative (small, small community off of Borden). All in all, it went well. Many said that this was the best year yet. Next November, I will be helping coordinate both ceremonies.

All in all, I'd say that the level of knowledge in today's youth is sad. They don't teach about it in civics and careers, and as a future (hopeful, fingers crossed) member, I'm disappointed in my peers. I take every advantage to attempt to educate them, though.

Ps. I understand that I am a rare minority.... XD
EDIT:Afterthoughts


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## Cui (10 Apr 2012)

As a university student, when I tell people that I'm an ROTP applicant, I get responses ranging from "why would you want to join the MILITARY, they kill people", "oh, that's cool", to "I'm thinking about joining too, so I can be more competitive when I find a job in the civilian world"

While the last one is a valid reason to join, I think the main problem is that a lot of the public do not share the same values as the CF. The North American culture is very self-centric, getting the most benefits for oneself. Serving a higher calling, and to belong in something that is greater than oneself might be a foreign concept to other people. I know that I, and a lot of my peers, were taught to worship in the Temple of the Almighty Dollar at a young age. The only reason to pursue anything in life is for its monetary value. Even if they do volunteer for something, it is basically to make their resume/med school/law school/grad school application look better. Again, although there is nothing wrong with wanting to be as successful as one can be, I believe that one should do things for a higher cause, and to help other people along the way. The CF's mission is to protect Canadian interests at home and abroad. CF members have to make a lot of sacrifices for this mission, and it is something that a lot of the population cannot imagine. While a lot of CF members do have something to gain personally from joining, I'm sure most of them do have a higher calling in mind when they step into a recruiting centre.

I'm sure that the amount of teamwork, camaraderie, and support from peers in the CF cannot be matched by a lot of other organizations in Canada. With the difference in values, surly there will be some kind of alienation among the rest of the society. As people do not understand the culture of the CF, and people tend to fear what they don't know. There is a good reason to fear the CF as well, since everyone is in a uniform and constantly work with things that are designed to kill people. 

With that alienation, they view the military as a mystery. From what they see in the media, and movies, they form some kind of opinion about the CF. Ranging from saints to baby killers. I believe that the truth lies somewhere in between, the CF is just like any other organization. It has different mandates, and values that members have to follow to fulfill those mandates. The media portrays a different view of the CF everyday, from people who rush into burning buildings to save kittens to brutal rapists. Obviously, the media is a profit making business, the accurate portrayal of some organization is not their priority. Anyone with any critical thinking skills can figure this out, which I'm sure most people have, and just choose to not use it. The CF is composed of a cross section of the Canadian society, there are good people in it, and there are bad people in it. People shouldn't choose to support it one day and not support it the other day. That's what I think where the problem lays right now. The public have to realize that the CF members are people as well, despite having a uniform. 

However, I think it is a good thing that the public do not know a lot about the military at the same time. It shows that we live in a quite peaceful and stable society, that there aren't any armoured vehicles or soldiers on the streets unless it is to dig people out of a snowstorm. We do not impose the martial law on people, and the powers of the armed forces are outline in the constitution. The military is often used as a tool of oppression for dictators, and have a major presence in people's everyday life. The fact that we as Canadians don't see the members of our military very often means  that the Canada is not one of those countries. 

The answer always lay somewhere in the middle. The public should be more informed about the CF. At the same time, we should realize that we should not have a military presence everywhere 24/7. Do the public need to know that their right and freedoms are protected by the CF? Yes. Should they concern themselves with the everyday operations of the CF? No. All the public needs is an informed view about the CF, if they choose not to support the troops, that's their choice, and they have the right to that choice. However, I think most Canadians will care more about the CF if they just cared more about something other than the almighty dollar, and spent some time forming those informed views. 

My  :2c:


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## Northalbertan (10 Apr 2012)

Being a CIC officer in rural Alberta I am probably the only one in a CF uniform in my community.  Pretty much the only connection most folks here have to the CF.  I get out to the schools during veteran's week and remembrance day and it makes an impression in the community, a fairly positive one it seems, the schools keep inviting me back after all.

A few awkward moments on a couple of occasions when I have stopped by to grab a timmies on my way to the corps for training nights (I live 40 miles away from the cadet corps), when someone will buy me a coffee and then thank me for my service.  I accept with thanks on your behalf, answer any questions they have to the best of my ability, and knowledge.  

You should know, the folks out here are more than proud of what you do and what you mean for our country.

I agree that more of our military history should be taught in our schools.  And from my experiences a better understanding of the different roles and components of the CF would be a good thing as well.  

I disagree with Cui that most people think the CF  is all about kill, kill, kill, and that people should have reason to fear it.  The CF has proved over and over that they are here for the benefit of Canadians.  Either in some domestic assistance roles or to ensure that the battles we have to fight are fought elsewhere instead of on Canadian soil.  A nations soldiers, (ok and sailors and airmen/women) are the best way of ensuring that it's citizens get to keep enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

See how long you would keep those freedoms without an effective military.  We can't be an effective military without the support of the population.  I wish more Canadians understood that.

Northalbertan


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## a_majoor (10 Apr 2012)

Cui may be talking more about how University staff and students look at the CF. How many times have we seen stories of University student councils refusing to allow CF recruiters on campus during career week (or whatever they call it these days?). The University administrations involved rarely intervene on behalf of the CF either.

Moving even farther down the food chain, I have personally encountered high school councilors who can barely contain their displeasure at students being in a high school military Co Op program (although I have also encountered several enthusiastic proponents as well). This in spite of knowing there are more than 100 candidates vying for 30 spots...

So for every individual who is influenced by their families and relatives, there are thousands of individuals who are being herded as a collective away from knowledge of the military either through neglect (the most common way) or actual opposition. Now see then try to comprehend most news stories about the CF; the only thing that can make a real impression is numbers (witness the recent CF-35 costing bruhaha), and of course media "pundits" like Stephen Staples are more than happy to weigh in on how those billions of dollars could be better off spent on (insert item here).


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## Bass ackwards (10 Apr 2012)

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Grade 10 history:
> All in all, I'd say that the level of knowledge in today's youth is sad. They don't teach about it in civics and careers, and as a future (hopeful, fingers crossed) member, I'm disappointed in my peers. I take every advantage to attempt to educate them, though.



Unfortunately RD, it's not just today's youth. Over the years, I've worked with countless 40 and 50-somethings who are amazingly, appallingly pig ignorant of just about anything that doesn't involve sports, celebrities or recreational drugs. 

I'll step into conversations when they crop up (usually as the result of some wrong-headed news piece) and even get asked questions occasionally because I'm known to keep up on such things. 
For my part, I try to not get too preachy or irate with people (it's difficult sometimes).
I try to be more like E.R. Campbell and less like Major Frank Burns


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## HavokFour (18 Apr 2012)

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Grade 10 history:
> 
> Haha. What a joke. We covered WW1 for almost a month, I learned nothing I already knew. On the other hand, I have been studying the WWs and other CF events since I could read (about 2 years old... Sitting on my daddy's knee.). On many occasions, I taught the teacher. IN HIS SUPPORT, though, he collects many artifacts from WW1 and 2, and brought them in, so props for that.



I was fortunate enough to have a former member as a history teacher. It was probably the most memorable class I ever took in high school.


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## Colin Parkinson (19 Apr 2012)

All is not lost, in the middle of a tough war, the infantry trade was oversubscribed. From my reading, any military history course in post secondary seems to get filled up quickly. Video games are keeping the interest alive, they tease people with some knowledge and most want to know more. 

As the regular force continues to concentrate in a few bases the role of the reserves in connecting with the community grows even more critical. The problem of course is this role is hard to define without set goalposts or easily quantified numbers, making such programs appear to be fluff to critical mission elements. However the critical missions will suffer if the DND can not get public support.


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## Edward Campbell (22 Apr 2012)

It is unlikely that Canadians' ignorance of things military (or our history, for that matter) will be lessened by a new book by Noah Richler, if we are to believe this review which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Ottawa Citizen_. For the record, I have not read Richler's book, nor do I plan to, Margaret MacMillan suggests that we ought to take him seriously, and I suppose I agree, if only because he represents a major strain of Canadian history opinion ignorance, but I'm too old and too busy to read rubbish.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Entertainment/Books/Noah%20Richler%20argues%20in%20his%20new%20book%20that%20the%20Harperites%20have%20changed%20how%20we%20think%20of%20ourselves/6492348/story.html



> ‘Warrior nation’
> *Noah Richler argues that the Harperites have changed how we think of ourselves*
> 
> By Paul Gessell, The Ottawa Citizen
> ...




Reading between the lines, from Gessell's review, I presume that Richler believes that history didn't happen until after he was born and that, therefore, Canada's wars, big and small, domestic and foreign, the ones that happened before 1956, don't count.


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## Edward Campbell (22 Apr 2012)

An excerpt from Noah Richler's _What We Talk About When We Talk About War_ is available on the Walrus' web site. It confirms my intent to give Richler's book a pass.


Edit: spelling  :-[  (But, maybe it was just a typo.  :nod:    )


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## Old Sweat (22 Apr 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> An excerpt from Noah Richler's _What We Talk About When We Talk About War_ is available on the Walrus' web site. It conforms my intent to give Richler's book a pass.



He certainly is not in the same league as his father as a writer, and that goes both for wordsmithing and for development of ideas. The Toronto literati will love it.


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## HB_Pencil (25 Apr 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Suggesting that Canadians' deeply entrenched ignorance of and apathy about military matters is a "danger to democracy" is going a bit overboard; ditto suggesting that in "educating" politicians and senior bureaucrats military officers skew the agenda. But, there is little doubt that politicians and bureaucrats have little appetite for the technical details of modern military matters ~ nor should they, not any more than, say, the Minister of Natural Resources needs to understand the technical complexity of disposing of the waste from pulp and paper plants: it's a problem; we have experts; they recommend a range of options; ministers select the one that can a) be afforded and b) get the job done just well enough.
> 
> I do agree with Prof. Bland that we need to strengthen the military's ties to the community ~ restoring the old UNTD and COTC programmes, and helping reserve force members (officers and other ranks) to pay of loans at a higher rate if they stay in reserve units after graduation might be a way to help. Both would require more resources including more paid Class A billets in reserve units.
> 
> I have often said, and I firmly believe that Canadians' "support" for the troops is a mile wide but only an inch deep; that is, in large part, a consequence of the ignorance that Profs Sarty and Bland bemoan.



I'm fairly certain that Bland doesn't believe that its a "danger to democracy," at least not in the uprising sense. It is however at times questionable that it serves the public interests (or its own institutional ones) in the most efficient manner. His recent book, Let Sleeping Dogs Lie, discusses this fairly well: 

http://www.queensu.ca/dms/claxton.htm
http://www.vanguardcanada.com/DemiseOfPolicyProposalsBland


 And this is not a new occurrence. DND was organized in its current fashion back in the early 1970s because it was thought there was an emerging leadership vacuum at the top of the department and it needed to run itself. Its operated in that fashion since... most of the conflict has  been inside the bureaucracy, between the civil and military sides of the department. Stuff like Amalgamation of CFHQ, Fyffe review and the Vance report in the 1970s and 1980s, the "defence team" concept of the 1990s, Somalia and the 1997 reforms, the Hillier reorganization and reversion in the past decade.


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## curious george (2 May 2012)

I live in a big city, but you'd never know that Canada has an armed forces.  Occasionally, I see someone driving an army truck, presumeably to get some gas.  But that's about it.  For an urban dweller who does not live in Edmonton or Petewawa, seeing a fully uniformed service person, let alone an army truck, is a BIG deal, even a bit of a shock.  (Canadians look that much scarier in their green uniforms!)  Where I live, there is no Highway of Heroes, no military parades, no yellow ribbons, no Canadian flags, zippo.  Then you wonder why people here feel apathy.

People need to feel a personal connection if they are to care.  The military has that responsibility - to put names and faces on personnel, to tell personal stories of sacrifice and courage, to show the everyday struggles of men and women serving overseas who put in their own words, for instance, how special tanks are going to help save lives or make their jobs easier, and the difference they make at home.  People can identify with real people.  Otherwise, it's just too easy in Canada, for people to live in their own little bubble.


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## Old Sweat (3 Sep 2012)

Jack Granatstein replies to the claims that Canada is being remade into a "warrior nation" in this piece from the Ottawa Citizen's website. It is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provision of the Copyright Act.


Canada always was a warrior nation

By J.L. Granatstein, The Ottawa Citizen September 2, 2012 Comments (1) 


Is Canada a peacekeeping nation? Or is it a warrior nation? These questions are the subject of two Spring 2012 books by Noah Richler (What We Talk About When We Talk About War) and Ian McKay and Jamie Swift (Warrior Nation: Rebranding Canada in an Age of Anxiety). They are notable for the vigour of their arguments and, not least, because both take aim at the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute and at David Bercuson and Jack Granatstein. Yes, David and me. Ordinarily, I would not respond to attacks of this sort (David can make his own decisions!), but the issue is important and I’ve decided it’s worth a reply.

That Canada was a warrior nation I take as a given. The nation’s 20th-century record speaks for itself, as do the military efforts in Afghanistan and Libya in the first years of this century. This is Canadian history, and the authors may not like this, but they simply must accept it — and by and large they do. What they object to, what they attribute in part to Bercuson and me, is the way military history has been pushed to the forefront of public consciousness, or so they claim, and the way in which the Harper government has used this interpretation of the past and the Afghan war to change the public narrative. In effect, they argue that Canada has become a warrior nation thanks to the current government’s efforts and the writings of a few military historians sheltering under the broad wings of the CDFAI.

There is some truth in this, but mostly it’s a lot of hooey. The government built up the military — and is now rolling back the defence budget. Despite my best efforts, polls demonstrate Canadians know very little of their military past. Moreover, other than in a few universities, Canadian military history is not much taught. But there is substantial publishing in the field, and the public buys and reads these books. More military history sells, I suspect, than McKay’s unreadable tomes on the glories of the Canadian left. But that’s a dispute for another day.

What was the narrative before the warriors “perverted” it? To Richler and McKay-Swift, Canada as peacekeeper is much more realistic, more acceptable to the public, more attuned to what Canada is and should be. Now, there is no doubt that the Canadian Forces has done much good work in peacekeeping since the early 1950s, and there is similarly no debate that the public likes this role. Every opinion poll confirms this. And there is also no gainsaying the fact that governments, Liberal and Conservative, have exploited this, building the grand peacekeeping monument in Ottawa, putting peacekeeping on our coins and bills, and talking it up at every opportunity until recently.

Richler at least understands that this was largely mythmaking, but he prefers the peacekeeping myth to the war-fighting reality. McKay and Swift sometimes seem to accept the myth as fact.

It is, of course, made up of whole cloth. Peacekeeping was never more than a subsidiary role for the C.F. NATO and NORAD commitments absorbed most of the personnel and budgetary resources, while peacekeeping at its peak received at most 10 per cent. But the myth appealed to Canadians, and their governments, eager to cut budgets and looking for a uniquely Canadian role to trumpet, went along with the story.


A personal anecdote, one that Richler uses in his book to slam me. When I went to Ottawa in 1998 to become the director and CEO of the (old) Canadian War Museum, I found the third floor of the cramped museum devoted to peacekeeping. Why? I asked. Because my predecessor had polled visitors and been told they wanted to see more on peacekeeping. The problem was that the CWM’s exhibits almost completely omitted NATO and NORAD, a total bowdlerization of postwar history. So I reduced the peacekeeping exhibits substantially and put in big exhibits on Canada’s two main alliances. To Richler, this was the triumph of the warrior nation idea over the peacekeeping ideal. Maybe, but to me, it was simply getting the history right, the task of a museum just as much as it is (or should be) of historians.

Getting it right matters. So does smashing myths and creating new ones. But surely it is critical to understand the difference between history and myth first.


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## cphansen (3 Sep 2012)

It never ceases to amaze me that intelligent well educated people can be so ill-informed about their local history and not even realize it.

I live in the stomping grounds of the Stormont, Dundas and Glenngary Highlanders. I moved here approximately 12 years ago. I was surprised to see how many national historic sites there are in the immediate area from Cornwall to Prescott there are so many readily available sites to visit and learn from. From places like Crysler's farm, now underwater as a result of the seaway, the battle of the windmill, Fort Wellington (and there are some very juicy stories about it's building and the Canadian Militia).

I have talked with locals about the history and they just don't know about their region's history, someone really messed up when they were being taught history.  I believe History should be taught out doors and wherever possible on location, to drive home that history is the story of people, local people living in the same area as you, and with the same concerns. Family names show up in records hundreds of years old and they are your family names and the names of families you know. You see the same family names on Militia nominal roles, hundreds of years apart.

In any region of Canada, we find records of battles or military expeditions from Benedict Arnold's attempt to invade and conquer Quebec City by invading overland from Maine, and losing his warchest along the way. There have been a few expeditions mounted to try to find his treasure.

We have so many great historical stories and characters like Inspector Sam Steele of the NWMP, Sir Sandford Flemming and Standard time.  We have a lot of History, both Military and Civil to be aware of and proud of.


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## Colin Parkinson (4 Sep 2012)

Meanwhile all us westcoasters have to be proud of is a dead pig.  ;D


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## daftandbarmy (4 Sep 2012)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Meanwhile all us westcoasters have to be proud of is a dead pig.  ;D



That is precisely why I propose that those units west of the GTA be allowed to wear the 'Dead Pig Wings' above their 1812 pins. 

If you want to do stupid, you might as well go the 'whole hog'  ;D


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## cphansen (6 Sep 2012)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Meanwhile all us westcoasters have to be proud of is a dead pig.  ;D


Just goes to show how contentious our ancestors were, and also how old the pork marketing board is.   <bg>


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## Canadian.Trucker (6 Sep 2012)

It has always amazed me the overall ignorance of the Canadian public of the military.  It's a shame really, one that within my own circle of friends and family I have tried to overcome and inform them with the hopes it will transfer over to their friends and family as well.

Peacekeeping is an especially tiresome subject that I constantly fight against.  We are not Peacekeepers, that is just a role that we fulfill.  I've filled many a sandbag, doesn't mean I am a sandbagger, it's just in my box of tricks that gets pulled out when I need to do it.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Sep 2012)

SherH2A said:
			
		

> It never ceases to amaze me that intelligent well educated people can be so ill-informed about their local history and not even realize it.





			
				Canadian.Trucker said:
			
		

> It has always amazed me the overall ignorance of the Canadian public of the military.


If it's any comfort, it's not _just_ the military that's off many folks' radar - I'm guessing _many_ calls to city hall, members of provincial parliament and members of parliament involve a response along the lines of "the city/the province/the feds are responsible for that, you'll have to call xxxx".  If a lot of folks don't know how services they get every day work, they probably know even less about a military many don't even come in contact with.


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## Canadian.Trucker (6 Sep 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> If it's any comfort, it's not _just_ the military that's off many folks' radar - I'm guessing _many_ calls to city hall, members of provincial parliament and members of parliament involve a response along the lines of "the city/the province/the feds are responsible for that, you'll have to call xxxx".  If a lot of folks don't know how services they get every day work, they probably know even less about a military many don't even come in contact with.


Touche salesman, touche.


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Sep 2012)

Hell most people don't even know where their poop goes, main source of electrical power or where their water comes from. Most don't even realize that pipes run under the streets.


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## Canadian.Trucker (7 Sep 2012)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Most don't even realize that pipes run under the streets.


WITCHCRAFT!!!


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## daftandbarmy (7 Sep 2012)

I've been quite encouraged to notice that, regardless whether or not they understand what we do, most Canadians I come across are very supportive of their military members in general. 

Warrior schmorrior... For I am a soldier, and unapt to weep, or to exclaim upon fortune's fickleness! ;D


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## mariomike (7 Sep 2012)

.


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## GAP (7 Sep 2012)

:  enough already...


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## AustralianNavyGuy (19 Mar 2013)

Hell Canada sounds just like Australia...Pollies love messing around with budgets...flying  our wounded into Richmond late at night,giving them the gag forms to them and their partners and telling them that they could be jailed if they spoke about what they did....and that's just the "normal" guys...hate to see what the "secret squirrels " go through if they get (heaven forbid) wounded and have to be pensioned off  
In Australia cadet units aren't part of our schooling system...been like that since just after Vietnam war when the Greens Party started to take a more political role in our government  :facepalm: 
I was a naval cadet and most of my Training Ship (Unit) were guys that were either there for "Juvie" community service...or had dads that wanted their boys "to become men" AKA gay.
I have been called everything from "Baby killer" to "Wow! its a navy looser Joan.....you know those guys that sink the boat seekers " (heard it from a  woman on the phone at a very icky rail station in Sydney)....though what takes the cake was a lovely Greenpeace group that threw pig's bits over the fence at Garden Island....thank god it was July so we had our black winter uniforms on and not the summer whites :blotto:


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