# cdn army future



## northamericanrebel (21 Nov 2003)

Any glaring changes for Cdn Army on the horizon? Has Paul Martin proposed any serious overhaul or retooling?  Are you going to be stuck in the same fiscal downward spiral??? Do you guys envision Canada playing a more  prominent role in future military conflicts, or perhaps the goverment is content with being  "the worlds peacekeepers"   :boring:    :boring:


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## JasonH (21 Nov 2003)

*Squint* My opinion is it‘ll keep going downhill.  Although the pull-out of Bosnia and free troops up for other such places.  But I think we‘ll be in the same position, maybe with a little more funding but that‘s it


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## Michael Dorosh (21 Nov 2003)

Do you think we could tell you any of the above without the necessity of killing you after?

Like, man, we only follow orders, y‘know?


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## JasonH (21 Nov 2003)

> Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
> [qb] Do you think we could tell you any of the above without the necessity of killing you after?
> 
> Like, man, we only follow orders, y‘know? [/qb]


Werd


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## northamericanrebel (21 Nov 2003)

this is off topic but eh Michael....any good pubs in Calgary...headed up there soon


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## OLD SCHOOL (21 Nov 2003)

Same **** different ****head as far as the government goes. Blah, blah, blah. Look at me I‘m head turd. Time to look after my friends $$$$...

Watch out for cow pies and cowgirls in those pubs.


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## fusilier955 (21 Nov 2003)

did anyone read this months maple leaf?  it goes on about becoming a "middle-weight" armed forces.  it sounds like we have more cut backs coming on...


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Nov 2003)

We have been labeled as middle weight/power for quite some time.


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## AZA-02 (21 Nov 2003)

isn‘t there something, someone could do to help the CF gain some weight.(metaphore, middle to heavy/power)????


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Nov 2003)

Canada has never been a super power nor has any aspirations to be one.


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## combat_medic (21 Nov 2003)

Al-X: Yes, there is something we can do. The Canadian population can stop voting in majority liberal governments. That would certainly change the scope of the CF. Either that, or we need to find a way to shift the priorities of the Liberal caucus to focus more on defense.


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## NMPeters (21 Nov 2003)

Geez people. Did you actually read the article? It‘s medium weight with respect to our armoured vehicles...not politically.


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## Enzo (21 Nov 2003)

I don‘t like to read, it hurts too much...


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## Enzo (21 Nov 2003)

...(kidding).

I‘m surprised we‘re considered a "medium weight" military. If left to our own resources, that‘s a stretch. We rely on our allies for a deal of our support (transportation, communications, etc...) I don‘t see any of that changing anytime soon. I feel it‘ll get worse with more equipment extensions (pick your category).


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## GForce (27 Nov 2003)

I think it will hit rock bottom than someone will eventually help it.


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## shaun_bougie (27 Nov 2003)

> Originally posted by Ex-Dragoon:
> [qb] Canada has never been a super power nor has any aspirations to be one. [/qb]


Canada has never been a superpower?  Seems to me we were pretty darn powerful during WWII.  The majority of what went on in that war had to do with us and I‘d have to say most of the people that were around in that era were very proud of the role Canada played.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Nov 2003)

very strong...yes Powerful not compared  to the UK or the US.. but close to superpower status.. hardly.


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## northamericanrebel (27 Nov 2003)

ya took one of those beaches on d day huh


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## Slim (28 Nov 2003)

We also had the primier spy training camp for all OSS, BSC, SIS and other secret agent organizations in Canada during WWII. Has anyone heard of Camp X ( STS-103 or Camp 25-1-1 RCMP name for it)
It was located in Whitbey Ontario from 1941 to 1944 and trained the majority of secret agentsdropped behind enemy lines during the second world war.
There is a web site can can be seen ( search camp x on google)
As a matter of fact the CIA name the "FARM" was origionally refering to Camp X! The OSS held it over for the one in Maryland.


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## Enzo (28 Nov 2003)

...and we trained the majority of Commonwealth pilots, and we provided much of the support for the convoys during the war, and we fought well in Italy and all throughout Europe, and we fought as warriors in Korea... 

Yet all of that was a long time ago. The question was about the future of the CF. What‘s coming up on the horizon? Sunshine or a miserable storm.


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## northamericanrebel (28 Nov 2003)

So you partake in most of the wars....just never in the numbers uk or us does....hence sometimes if not most of the time you get over shadowed


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## northamericanrebel (28 Nov 2003)

I was also wondering if one of you could clearly define superpower


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## fusilier955 (28 Nov 2003)

no, nothing comes to mind right now...  :blotto:


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## Gunnar (28 Nov 2003)

No miserable storm.  Too much like work on the part of the government.  Just another 2 decades of drizzle, until the muck is so high, that the army is buried under miles of it, and the concept of sun is a happy memory of your grandfather.

You know what happens to people buried under miles of muck, right?

My, I‘m cheerful today.


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## Enzo (28 Nov 2003)

Superpower = My "tool" is the biggest and I have the WMD‘s to back that statement up.


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## Enzo (28 Nov 2003)

> Do you guys envision Canada playing a more prominent role in future military conflicts,


I dunno, doubt we‘ll be invading anyone anytime soon. Our oil reserves are doing just fine thanks.


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## Private Snowball (28 Nov 2003)

I‘m confused.

Why do we need a military again?

Perhaps we should tailor our tools to our needs as opposed to our desire to run with the big boys?

Of course (from what little I know), the MGS certainly seemed like a step in right direction.


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## RCD (29 Nov 2003)

If NATO was smart they should kick out countries that don‘t pull their own weight. An I‘m sorry to say that we would be the first to go.


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## Jarnhamar (29 Nov 2003)

NATO is going to turn into the UN.


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## Spr.Earl (29 Nov 2003)

I can remember back in the late 70‘s when we could not drive our vehicle‘s because of maintanance and fuel shortage‘s but had load ‘s of explosive‘s for our ex.‘s
Any old fart‘s out there remember that one?
Because it was Army Wide!!!
I sure do!!!

Thank God I have only 5 to go and I‘m only sticking around to see what Pension I may receive!
50yrs young and 5 to go so I can get old!
LOL


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## winchable (29 Nov 2003)

NATO is a cold war relic, designed to gang up on the Soviets. At the time it was incredibly important because we had no idea how dangerous the Soviets were (Or as we found out, Weren‘t), and needed a way of protecting the west from the "Threat" of communism.
If Nato were to become the UN it would leave out all the countries that aren‘t in the north Atlantic. The UN contributes humanitarian aid as well as -Attempting- to provide security etc. etc.
while nato is a much heavier into military action and the like. Also if you look at the history of NATO actions, many have been in SUPPORT of UN resolutions.
I suppose NATO has adapted to the new world to a certain extent as well, so it is not entirely useless, and neither is the UN. What is important is that they remain two seperate internationally recognised and important political bodies.
As far as Canadas contribution to NATO goes, we do not pull as much weight as some of the member nations. If you take a moment to look at the NATO website and see all the countries who are members, we are certainly not at the bottom of the food chain so-to-speak.
Any response or debate on this topic would be welcomed very much!


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## Bert (29 Nov 2003)

NATO will likely devolve and remain for a time as a political forum.  Out of the ashes will come the
EU rapid reaction force and essentially the EU armed forces.  Germany and France have tethered themselves away from American foreign policy.  Russian and Europe have signed energy deals making Russia dependant on European investment and markets.  The US and Europe are undergoing changes that will make them go different ways.  The US approach to South America, China, Russia, and the Middle East is quite different too.  I can see NORAD growing with Australia and Britian due to their closeness to US foreign and military policy.  

The US is reacting to preceived threats from North Korea, a emerging China, an uncertain Europe, Al-Qaida (various terorists), and Syria/Iran.  Europe, or that which makes up a
portion of NATO, does not have the same perception and has its own agenda.  Times change.


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## Slim (29 Nov 2003)

I imagine that we ( Canada ) probably contribute a good bunch of coin to NATO. 
If, however, they did throw us out maybe the powers that be would wake up and get the ball rolling for the CF...Or maybe not, with this countries leadership.


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## Enzo (29 Nov 2003)

Governments have a tendency to plan for the future based on events of the past. As far as "Ottawa" is concerned, the Cold War is long concluded and the odds of an invasion of Canada are slim/non-existent. That ensures safety. So, no need of tanks, destroyers or fighter aircraft, etc... Alignment with the UN in the form of peacekeeping is seen as the contribution to the world stage. As long as the image is good, the status qui will continue.

Sorry, it isn‘t going to improve unless something drastic happens. An no one wants that.

Christ. I despise being such a pessimist, especially upon this topic. As for leadership, where is it?


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## winchable (30 Nov 2003)

"it isn‘t going to improve unless something drastic happens. An no one wants that."

Here‘s to that. In general the most depressing principle behind having a military is that people simply can not get along, and have the most brutal habit of displaying this through violence.
Leadership is a big issue though that is for certain, however, I believe that Canada is long overdue for a good leader. Perhaps it will come along soon, that‘s speculation though, not fact sadly.


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## RCD (30 Nov 2003)

Nobody respects a country with a poor army, but everybody respects a country with a good army.Remember all the G8 countries can move their forces with THEIR equipment. We can‘t we have to rely on 3rd world countries shipping or rent a jet. Remember that fiasco off our East coast a few years back


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## Enzo (30 Nov 2003)

I‘m waiting for the tv movie.   

Actually, I‘m quite serious about that, why not? We‘ve just enjoyed that quality entertainment that was J. Lynch (I have to be careful as I didn‘t actually watch that, I was washing my panties that night). Why not a tv movie highlighting recent events of concern to Canada. We could have "Danger at Sea: The true story of a hijacked freighter and the 2 Sea Kings sent to retake her (1 actually made it)," or "PPCLI in Kabul: watch out for National Guardsman looking to score points." Or we could go back even further: "Somalia: who authorized that mission?" So many topics to choose from.

I‘m checking my tv guide, but I don‘t think I‘ll find such fare. That‘s ok, Survivor: Pearl Islands is still on. (phew)


And as for our place on the world stage, too many people misunderstand. That isn‘t a right; it‘s a responsibility. We‘re a part of these organizations and associations due to the contributions of generations past. There are too many countries to name who are waiting in the wings to replace us. And honestly, they‘ll have earned it when it happens. No point casting blame when a mirror will suffice.


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## Slim (30 Nov 2003)

> Originally posted by Enzo:
> [qb] I‘m waiting for the tv movie.
> 
> 
> "And as for our place on the world stage, too many people misunderstand. That isn‘t a right; it‘s a responsibility. We‘re a part of these organizations and associations due to the contributions of generations past. There are too many countries to name who are waiting in the wings to replace us. And honestly, they‘ll have earned it when it happens. No point casting blame when a mirror will suffice." [/qb]


Well said, well said indeed!!!


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## northamericanrebel (30 Nov 2003)

enzo sounds on top of his game  heh heh


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