# Physical Fitness for Skinny Guys



## dnuttall (23 Mar 2005)

Hey all, got a quick question for everyone. I've read posts about people losing weight, and getting in to shape, which is great... if you're a big or average sized guy. I, however, am pretty damn skinny... which has some advantages, and quite a few disadvantges.

In my favour, I'm a natural runner and can run long distances pretty easily. However, my upper body strength really doesn't compare to bigger guys. And here's my dilemna... the cardiovascular training I do (running, biking, etc.) pretty well cancels out any anaerobic excercies i've been doing.

Any suggestions for improving upper body strength while maintaining a high level of cardio?

Much obliged to all who answer  ;D

Dave


----------



## Chags (23 Mar 2005)

I weighed 145 lbs (I'm 5'9") when I got in 10 years ago..  I could run like a gazelle.  Now, I'm about 195, I still run.. just not as fast..  I lift 5 times a week.

Three easy steps:

1.  Eat more
2.  Reduce amount of aerobic exercise (but don't stop it completely)
3.  Start lifting weights

and the 4th step.. if you play baseball

4.  Take anabolic steroids.

(not that I did, of course)


----------



## dnuttall (23 Mar 2005)

that sounds straight forward enough. i've just started to turn eating into a full time job, that should help a lot. 

lol i'll leave the steroids to the pros... jose canseco was always my favourite


thanks for the advice.  8)


----------



## bojangles (24 Mar 2005)

I am a Personal Trainer for GoodLife Fitness Clubs...until April 21st anyway...then I go to my BMQ on the 26th.
Anyway...I might be able to help you out with your question as I have trained many people both wanting to gain and lose weight. Some quick tips are to make sure you are not only eating alot of calories but that you are eating the "right" foods. Load up on protien and if you want to gain weight, same with carbs. As for weight training, make sure that you are using a heavy enough weight and are doing about 6 to 10 reps maximum. You should be lifting the weight until muscle failure...meaning that you cannot do one more repetition no matter how hard you push. You should "feel the burn". If you can do 10 repetitions (which is a little high) then increase your weight until you are back down to 6 reps. Also, you should be doing 3 sets..one as a warm-up weight and then increase to a medium weight and then at your max. 
If you need any additional advice, feel free to PM me.

Bojangles


----------



## Chags (24 Mar 2005)

thats great advice, bojangles..  like what I said, but much more detail.. and from someone who is qualified to give it..

That will be my second career after i'm done my 20..

Thats the method I used.. and it worked for me!!


----------



## bojangles (24 Mar 2005)

Chags,

Personal Training is an awesome job and has some of the greatest rewards you can get from a career. The sad part of it is that alot of people simply don't invest money into themselves and it's hard to make a living at it. People will somehow always find money to fix their vehicles when they break down no matter what the cost, but when it comes to thier own bodies breaking down...they don't see the need to invest in it. :-\...until it's too late unfortunately and they are laying in a hospital bed saying "man I wish I would have taken better care of myself".

Bojangles


----------



## Sh0rtbUs (24 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> As for weight training, make sure that you are using a heavy enough weight and are doing about 6 to 10 reps maximum. You should be lifting the weight until muscle failure...meaning that you cannot do one more repetition no matter how hard you push. You should "feel the burn". If you can do 10 repetitions (which is a little high) then increase your weight until you are back down to 6 reps. Also, you should be doing 3 sets..one as a warm-up weight and then increase to a medium weight and then at your max.



Wow, really? I had always been told I should be maxing out at around 10-15 reps for mass building. Good to know...looks like my bench is in need of a few more pounds...

Any specific foods you find to be excellent protein and carb sources? Id like to avoid protein supplements and cant afford steak every night...


----------



## bojangles (24 Mar 2005)

Doing 10 to 15 reps is fine depending on the results you want to achieve. I would normally advise someone to do 10 to 15 reps if they simply want to define/tone up thier muscles. This also means you are strength training but you won't "bulk up" the way you would if you lowered your reps and increased your weight. Having a spotter or a buddy to work with you helps to pump out those last few reps where we normally give up. Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.
If you don't like the shakes or protien bars. Eat natural foods like egg whites, lots of nuts (some are high in fat too but it's a good fat so don't be too concerned, afterall you are wanting to gain weight), meat. 

Bojangels


----------



## patt (24 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> Doing 10 to 15 reps is fine depending on the results you want to achieve. I would normally advise someone to do 10 to 15 reps if they simply want to define/tone up thier muscles. This also means you are strength training but you won't "bulk up" the way you would if you lowered your reps and increased your weight. Having a spotter or a buddy to work with you helps to pump out those last few reps where we normally give up. Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.
> If you don't like the shakes or protien bars. Eat natural foods like egg whites, lots of nuts (some are high in fat too but it's a good fat so don't be too concerned, afterall you are wanting to gain weight), meat.
> 
> Bojangels



what protein shake would u recommend? and how long does it take to see results?


----------



## NiTz (24 Mar 2005)

Bojangles : EXCELLENT advices!! I've been lifting for a year now.. I was 125 lbs (I'm 5,8') I'm now 160 lbs...  The way to train that Bojangles explained (muscle failure) is the way I used and the one that i'm still using. It works the best. 

For my part, I would recommend GOOD QUALITY proteins, not the cheap ones you buy at Wal-Mart (they can contain burned protein particles and still can be called "proteins") I use Champion Nutrition and it's been very good so far.Plus, you don't need a mixer to do your shake, that's what indicates the good quality of the protein powder. Great tasting too, but don't try weird flavours like strawberry or banana... stay with chocolate! I also suggest you mix your protein powder with 3.25% m.f. milk (as you want to gain mass). This adds proteins and calories to the shake, and it' s WAY better tasting this way, trust me!

Now, if you're really skinny and want to get mass, (just like I was) try using Mass or Weight gainers. I used a couple of buckets (yes, the powder is in real buckets with a metal handle!!) of Mammoth 2500 Mass gainer. Worked fine! You get like 1400 calories for 1 shake! Plus, of course, 60 grams of protein. Remember to mix it with a mixer and with milk, too.

The general rule to gain muscle mass is 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Follow this, EAT EAT EAT and EAT MORE! Then, you should be able to pack solid muscle within reasonable time! Feel free to PM me if you got questions about it, but I think Bojangles explained it very weel already!

Oooh. before I forget! There are SPECIFIC times to drink a shake!  Follow this : within the next hour following your training, drink a shake. (the muscles will start rebuilding after the effort right after the end of your workout. That's when they need the most protein!) Also, the day after, drink another one that you'll split between breakfast and afternoon lunch. A good indicator of the way your workout went is sore muscles. You SHOULD feel sore muscles  EVERY day following a workout. If not, less results are to expect.

By the way, feel free to PM if you got any question!

Cheers, and good luck!


----------



## Sh0rtbUs (24 Mar 2005)

Just a question about the sore muscles. I get it within the first few days of starting an exercise, and then it pretty much becomes a thing of the past. I work the muscle group until it simply decides "you're on your own" and gives up. Problem is, I only feel slightly tired within the next 15 minutes..but am ready for another go as I no longer feel exhausted. I've done Preacher Curls to muscle failure in sets seperated by only a few minutes, and it seems like every time I come back...my muscles have forgotten that they even did anything prior. This normal?


----------



## bojangles (24 Mar 2005)

Nitz, you're right on the mark with protien shakes/supplements. Find one that is of good quality and that you can handle the taste. Most poor quality ones taste chalky.

Shortbus, 
Muscles are a little more complex than one may think. First off, your muscles have memory which is a good thing...it means that when you take a break from working out, your muscles will remember what they "used to do" and can usually get back to that state quickly. Without getting too technical, your muscles don't get sore after the first few times working them because the "muscle memory" takes effect and says "Oh yeah, I remember this now...It's not new to me", thus not sending your muscles into a shocked state when you work them. You SHOULD feel a burn when you are training but not necessarily feel sore the next day. You will know you had an excellent workout and worked your muscles to failure when you get the shakes after lifiting. You should actually feel trembling in the muscles you worked. Weight training is an ongoing science and I could go on and on with advice for you but it really doesn't have to be comlicated. One thing to make sure of is that you are not working the same muscles every day, switch muscle groups to give healing/repair time. Remember that when you lift weights, you are tearing down muscle fibres and it needs rest to repair itself, when it repairs itself, it gets bigger. Rest is just as important so don;t think if you work the same muslce every day you are doing it favors. I personallly like to do upper body mon, wed & fri and I do lower the other days. I also do cardio every day because I suck at it! 
Hope I didn't bore you.

Bojangles


----------



## NiTz (25 Mar 2005)

Very good Bojangles.

After re-reading my previous post, I saw that I made a little mistake : you shouldn't ALWAYS be sore the next day... my mistake!

In my case, all the time I train triceps and pecs, I get all those muscles sore, but when I train my back, biceps and shoulders I barely get a little pain the next day. 

Anyways, just try to feel the muscle working, always keep control of your movement and exercise SLOWLY, like, do not throw the weight up and down. 

Try to get at least a whole day to recover. My routine is : monday : pecs-biceps   tue: off  wedns : back, triceps  thu : off   friday : shoulders, legs
Plus you add some cardio every day, but that's about it for the weight training. Keep your reps between 6-10 and you should grow strong!

I think it has all been covered now! I'm sorry I write a lot, I love so much to explain about that 


Cheers!


----------



## DogOfWar (25 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.



This is horrible advice. Training to failure always is a sure fire way to be injured and wind up over training. Personal trainer doenst mean anything- where did you get your certification?


----------



## bojangles (25 Mar 2005)

Beadwindow,
I have my CanFit Pro certification, where did you get yours? Training to muscle failure does NOT mean injury. In fact, if you do not train until mucle failure then can I ask what are you trying to accomplish? By not training to faliure, you are not breaking down the muscle fibers which is a HEALTHY thing and you want to do this in order to grow the muscle. By simply lifting a light weight and not working the muscle to failure, you might as well sit at home and lift a beer bottle to your mouth.IMO.

Bojangles


----------



## NiTz (25 Mar 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> This is horrible advice. Training to failure always is a sure fire way to be injured and wind up over training. Personal trainer doenst mean anything- where did you get your certification?



I' m sorry, but Bojangles was right on this one. Professionnal bodybuilders use this technique when they are bulking up. I've been using this for a year now, and I took 35 pounds of mass. Failure doesn't mean that you get injured... how can you say that? What's your point?


Cheers!


----------



## Big Foot (25 Mar 2005)

We all know its a very good idea to listen to 103 year olds on the matter of fitness. All the PSP staff I have ever dealt with give the same advice as bojangles. I think they are a very reputable source of information.


----------



## DogOfWar (25 Mar 2005)

"I have counseled the practice of going to failure as a means to ensure muscle growth stimulation. (Failure refers to performing a set until the point of being unable to complete one more rep, despite all effort you "fail" to complete the last rep.) But over the years much confusion has developed regarding the use of this principle. Having a clear understanding of the failure principle will save you wasted effort and prevent you from accepting what has become dogma as scientific fact. 
Over the last thirty years a great deal has been written about going to failure during weightlifting exercises. Like nearly every other aspect of bodybuilding, the concept of failure is one that has fallen victim to misapplication, misunderstanding and improper logic. Used properly, failure can serve as a useful tool in guiding progress. However, there is no valid reason for its near mythic importance to some bodybuilders who believe that progress cannot be made without employing this principle. In point of fact, exercising to momentary muscular failure is not, and never has been, a requirement of stimulating muscle growth. 
The fact is, outside of a gym, there is virtually no human activity that involves going to failure. For example, a person who makes his living by digging with a shovel would never dig to the point where he could not lift one more shovel of dirt. He would never swing a pick ax until he could no longer lift it to complete one more "repetition". And yet, people who perform such manual labor can develop tremendous muscularity. How is it that they can develop above average muscularity without ever, in their entire life, going to failure? Similarly, sprinters are distinguished by tremendous hamstring and quadriceps muscles compared to the nominal muscularity of a distance runner. This is because sprinting requires a great amount of muscular work in a unit of time. But who sprints to failure? Who crosses the finish line and cannot take one more step? Indeed, you might even find a weight lifter in your own gym who made great progress in his size and strength gains without ever exercising on a program that prescribed sets to failure. All of these people have the ability to stimulate new muscle growth without every going to "failure". So how can anyone characterize failure as an indispensable requirement of stimulating muscle growth? All the evidence - not just some evidence - but all evidence goes against that assertion. 

The human body operates by complex mechanisms that are always taking averages into account. In a normal day your body is adjusted to accept "x" amount of sunshine, "y" amount of temperature variation, "z" amount of humidity, etc. for hundreds of different environmental and biological variables. For every variable the body makes complex calculations and adjustment to characteristics like our blood viscosity, hormone levels, degree of skin tanning and muscle growth. If, on average, you are exposed to the same amount of sunlight every day of the year, your skin will darken to the point where it has sufficient protection from that average level of sunlight, but no more. Similarly, if you lift weights on a regular basis with the same amount of intensity every workout your muscles will develop to a point where they can comfortably handle the intensity of lifting that they are, on average, subjected to, without unduly depleting its recovery resources. 
In order to increase the thickness or viscosity of your blood it is not necessary to subject your body to the absolute coldest temperature that it can withstand before losing consciousness. Nor, if you want to increase the darkness of your tan, is it necessary to subject your skin to the most intense sunlight it can withstand up to the moment before blistering. Muscle growth stimulation operates on the same principle. Consequently it is not necessary to operate a muscle to its absolute limit of muscular failure in order to stimulate new muscle growth. 
You may have seen a new product on the market that utilizes a wristwatch style device to use while sun bathing. It is designed to monitor and measure the intensity of sunlight that your skin is subjected to and compare that intensity to user-provided information like color of skin and the SPF of the sunscreen being used. The device calculates the safe interval of sun intensity and rings an alarm when limits have been reached. Bodybuilders would greatly benefit from the same style of device if it could be adapted to measure the intensity of muscular output. Leaving aside the technicalities of measuring the intensity of muscle groups, imagine if you could wear a wristwatch style device that monitored and measured your average muscular intensity throughout the day. 
Suppose at the end of the day the device indicated your average muscular output was one hundred pounds per minute. Let's call that your baseline muscular intensity. If every day for the next six months you engaged in an amount of muscular activity that caused the device to register a one hundred pounds per minute average, you would not increase in your muscle mass because there would be no reason (no requirement) for your body to grow new muscle. 
Now suppose that each day you engaged in an amount of muscular activity that caused the average intensity to rise by 5%. (i.e. 100, 105, 110, 116, 122, etc.) At the end of thirty days, if you were able to sustain such a steady increase, your wrist monitor would indicate 412 pounds per minute of average muscular intensity. You can see that in order to safely cope with 412 pounds per minute of muscular output your body would have to make itself substantially more muscular that it has to be to cope with one hundred pounds per minute of muscular output. 
Using Power Factor principles, if you were to construct a month worth of bench press exercise routines you could begin by establishing baseline Power Factor and Power Index numbers that represent a measurement of the muscular intensity that you are capable of generating in that exercise. You could then engineer a number of workouts to perform over the next month ensuring that each had intensity 5% higher than the last. That progressive increase in muscular intensity would be all that is required to ensure steady increases in muscularity. It would not be necessary to go to failure, it would not be "necessary" to perform one set only, two sets only, three sets only, eight reps per set, twelve reps per set or any of the other so-called "requirements" for growth. It would also not be necessary to perform four different exercises in addition to the bench press, it would not be necessary to "periodize" your workouts by including several workouts at twenty to thirty percent below your baseline intensity, it would not be necessary to stop all aerobic exercise for a month. It would not be necessary to work out three days per week. It would only be necessary to increase the intensity of that exercise on a workout to workout basis. 

While failure is a crude gauge, it can be used as an effective tool in finding your baseline of intensity. For example, if you are performing three sets of fifteen reps with 200 pounds and during your first set you perform fifteen, your second set you perform fifteen but on your third set (to failure) you perform twenty six reps it is an indication that your first two sets were at sub maximal intensity and that you should be using a heavier weight or performing more reps. The limitation here should be obvious. How much lower was your intensity compared to what it could be? What are the units of measurement? How high is high? How low is low? When you use Power Factor and Power Index numbers in place of these vagaries your training is imbued with a precision behooving a proper science. Furthermore, if you are seriously overtrained you will reach failure at a point lower than the progressive intensity that you require in order to stimulate new muscle growth. For example, suppose that you started with a baseline intensity of one hundred pounds per minute and a few sessions later your intensity is 160 pounds per minute in the same exercise. At this point you become overtrained and next time in the gym you go to "failure" at 140 pounds per minute of muscular intensity. There is no possible way that can stimulate new muscle growth despite going to failure. Why? Because going to failure is not a requisite of muscle growth stimulation. Progressive intensity is! 
To exaggerate the point, consider what your strength is when you are recovering from a serious bout of flu or perhaps a stay in the hospital. You can return to the gym and take every set to failure but the intensity will be so low that it cannot stimulate new muscle growth. That's the reason why some people can train to failure on every exercise for month after month and never show any sign of progress while they are convinced they are going all out and delivering 100% of momentary muscular effort. It's irrelevant, since what matters is a tangible progression of overload intensity. Since the Power Factor and Index measurements exist there is no excuse for a rational person not to employ these more precise measurements of muscular intensity into his or her workouts. No reason except blinkered dogmatism and a blind adherence to tradition and "the way its always been done". 

Advocates of training to failure, particularly those who adhere to the Arthur Jones model of only one set to failure, believe that the last rep is the most productive rep of the set. As the rational goes, the first reps takes very little of your effort, the second, third and forth reps take corresponding more effort until you reach that last rep which requires all the effort you can muster and yet can not be completed. This most difficult rep is considered by some to be the most productive rep in the set as it is the one that triggers muscle growth stimulation. However, as we have already discussed, it is the progressive increase in intensity that triggers muscle growth and since that increase can be reached without ever going to failure, the last rep (as it's described as being impossible to complete) can be entirely unnecessary. For example, if the required increase in intensity would have been reached at the sixth rep of that set then the sixth rep is the one that triggers growth. The reps beyond the sixth were not even necessary to perform. If you have a baseline intensity of one hundred pounds per minute and you have set a goal intensity of 110 pounds per minute then the moment you reach 110 pounds per minute of intensity you can stop the exercise even if you've only completed five and a half reps. The number of reps is irrelevant, failure is irrelevant, it is the amount of intensity generated that is the only relevant factor. 
And how does a scientific mind measure intensity? With a mathematical Power Factor and Power Index. How does the unscientific mind measure intensity? By feel, by perceived effort, by burn, by pump, by soreness, by failure, by rep count, by set count, by vague, non-specific, irrelevant intangibles that are not indispensable conditions of growth stimulation. 
In science we measure the intensity of light, not by squint factor, or headache potential but by Lumens and Candle Power. We measure the intensity of sound not by ear pain or stomach vibration but by Decibels - precisely defined measurements that can be compared mathematically and used to discover other properties of the science. Anyone who claims there is a "science" of bodybuilding but rejects an objective measure of muscular intensity is a poseur and a dogmatist."


This is written by a respected bodybuilding author. I can give you lots more. Bodybuilders may use failure once a week. Its dangerous. Ive bulked myself up to a solid 260. Last time I checked the"PSP" staff in most places are for the most were'nt the best physical specimens. Out dated dangerous ideas. Back to your horse and buggies.


----------



## DogOfWar (25 Mar 2005)

The goal with the Training to Failure Principle is not to overtrain, rather to train to the limit and then stop. This means don't go to 110% of failure or even 100% of failure. Aim for 90-95% muscle failure, with STRICT FORM
-Travis Smith bodybuilding Author on applying the "Training to failure priciple"

Bojangles-

â Å“Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.â ?

Where is your advice on using proper form prostar?   The muscle failure principle isnt as easy as training until you cant â Å“do one moreâ ?. And giving that out as advice to people who don't know weight lifting is bad advice. There is a correct application and a dangerous application. You are not helping them by telling them to go until failure.


I watch the trainers in my gym, most of whom are round as well, give out poor form advice and bad advice everytime Im working out. So you took he Canfit course. Did you take the 22 or the 25 hour course? Ive got hundreds of hours under the iron.

Im not meaning to be inflammatory but I believe that the internet is full of dangerous fitness advice. If it was as easy as training to failure- every 16 year old kid who only does bench press would have a dolly parton sized rack on 'em. But we all know that they dont wind up growing.


----------



## LittlePammy (25 Mar 2005)

Being a Competitive bodybuilder I just wanted to add my 2 cents here.  Proper form is far more important than muscle failure or doing low reps or high reps.  Each person is different on how their body reacts to workouts.  I used to do low reps heavy weights for leg training.  Those suckers just wouldn't grow.  My friend/trainer (a former Pro bodybuilder who is also in the Cdn military and has competed internationally to represent Canada many times) changed my routine so that for legs I do extremely high reps with lower weights and guess what?  They grew!  lol.  Now my workouts are probably alot different than most as I am trying to pack on much size as I can so I am on a 5 day split and do extreme amounts of sets.  Usually 30 sets per body part.  This is the old school of doing things but the most important thing is having proper form when doing them.  Now I never did take the Can Fit pro certification as many trainers at my Goodlife gym took it and after a week of doing the classes they are constantly asking me for advice so I figured what could it teach me that I already didn't know.  Not knocking the course but it doesn't mean that everything is set in stone because you were taught it.   It is disheartening when you do see some of the trainers who are certified up the ying yang yet fail to maintain in good shape and expect others to pay 60$ and up per hour to listen to them when they can't shape their own body with their knowledge.  I was going to pay for a trainer a long time ago but when that trainer kept telling me that because I am a woman that I shouldn't want to get big muscles and that I should want to just tone my body is when I walked away.  lol


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

Beadwidow,
I am not going to get into a pissing contest over this. The question in the beginning was simply how does one increase upper body strength or gain muscle mass? To which I offered my advice based on 15 years of experience as a personal trainer. You can discredit my CanFit Pro certification based on how many hours it takes to complete if you wish. However, the fact remains that training to muscle failure does work and if it didn't...I would have been out of work a long time ago. The principle has been around for years because IT WORKS!. There are many different ways to train with weights and you will get different results depending on how you train with them. 

Sorry, but you lost me on your rant when you tried correlating weight lifting to suntanning. I didn't know that you coud suntan to failure. ???And when you stated that in real life situations such as digging with a shovel, you would not need to do this to failure...well... NO SHIT SHERLOCK! We are talking about building muscle mass here, not digging trenches!

If it makes any difference at all...which I am sure it doesn't...I have numerous credentials in the fitness industry. You asked me what credentials I had as a personal trainer and I figured giivng one that you may recognize might help you out but obviously because it took me 25 hours to complete, this one is not up to your standards. 

Bojangles


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

LittlePammy,

I think it's great that you are a competitive body buiilder and a woman to boot. One of my best friends who is also a female used to compete as well. Just wondering if you competed in Northern Ontario at all? I loved going to her shows and when the competition was over we'd go out for ice cream because she deprived herself of all the "goodies" for so long leading up to the competition.
Unfortunately there are alot of Personal Trainers out there who do not practice what they preach giving those of us who do a bad rap. I also agree with you that taking a week long course does not make everything you learned set in stone or the only way to do things. I am a pretty open minded person and am always willing to learn new concepts. Afterall, things are constantly changing in the fitness industry.

Bojangles


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> Beadwidow,
> I am not going to get into a pissing contest over this. The question in the beginning was simply how does one increase upper body strength or gain muscle mass? To which I offered my advice based on 15 years of experience as a personal trainer. You can discredit my CanFit Pro certification based on how many hours it takes to complete if you wish. However, the fact remains that training to muscle failure does work and if it didn't...I would have been out of work a long time ago. The principle has been around for years because IT WORKS!. There are many different ways to train with weights and you will get different results depending on how you train with them.
> 
> Sorry, but you lost me on your rant when you tried correlating weight lifting to suntanning. I didn't know that you coud suntan to failure. ???And when you stated that in real life situations such as digging with a shovel, you would not need to do this to failure...well... NO crap SHERLOCK! We are talking about building muscle mass here, not digging trenches!
> ...



That article is by a very well known name in the bodybuilding world. I didnt write it. IF MUSCLE FAILURE WORKED THE 16 YEAR OLD KID WHO ONLY DOES BENCH WOULD BE HUGE.


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

I am not discrediting the article. I am simply stating that training until muscle failure DOES WORK and it is not a "surefire way to cause injury" as you had earlier stated.

The 16 yr old who only does bench is not huge for a number of reasons...the main one being that he/she is not fully developed yet. That is why weight training is not recommended while one is still in the growing phase...."Prostar!"

Bojangles


----------



## Canadian Sig (26 Mar 2005)

Keep in mind that it is slightly more difficult to gain mass when your unit has you doing and hour of heavy cardio each day. You burn way more calories than you can eat. Just $0.02


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

Good point Canadian Sig. 

Bojangles


----------



## NiTz (26 Mar 2005)

I'm not very experienced with bodybuilding (only a year) but I found out that having a training partner to spot you on your sets until failure (like he must help you to COMPLETE the last rep) has always worked very well for me and my partner. As we did also increase our weights slightly week by week, and used the proper form for the reps, I assume that they all are the reasons why we progressed so much.

And kids can't be huge at 16, they're not grown yet. Plus, I don't know if that is true but I observed many of my friends who were weightlifting at high school (15-16 yrs old) stayed relatively small guys. None of them is more than 5'5". I wonder why is that  ???  I heard that because they were bodybuilding so yound, they stayed small... Don't know if that is true.


just my 2 cents

Cheers!


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

I don't know if weightlifting at a young age would hinder your growth or not. Hey, maybe that's what happened tome  ??? I am 5 foot nothing.

Bojangles


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (26 Mar 2005)

To add to the advice already posted:

On courses there is seldom time to hit the gym in such a fashion as to put on weight or keep what you have. The PT you get tends to be high-repetition exercises which are not conducive to bulking up any. Let this add up over a month or two or three, and you can end up losing alot of strength. So to help yourself out, there are two things you can do. The first is to find some low-rep body-weight exercises that work for you. Here's a few ideas: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler57.htm. The second thing is to darn well shut up during meals and shovel.Sure you might look like a pig and come off a bit anti-social. Who cares?


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> I don't know if weightlifting at a young age would hinder your growth or not. Hey, maybe that's what happened tome   ??? I am 5 foot nothing.
> 
> Bojangles



Well Bojangles. Weight lifting has been shown to close the growth plates prematurely. Because lifting ups your testosterone even farther. An excess of test and stress is why the plates fuse.


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> The 16 yr old who only does bench is not huge for a number of reasons...the main one being that he/she is not fully developed yet. That is why weight training is not recommended while one is still in the growing phase...."Prostar!"
> 
> Bojangles



Wrong again. Look at teen body builders. Ive seen awesome physiques on kids that are fifteen, because they diet and train properly. As soon as they hit puberty their bodies are itching to grow.


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (26 Mar 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> Well Bojangles. Weight lifting has been shown to close the growth plates prematurely. Because lifting ups your testosterone even farther. An excess of test and stress is why the plates fuse.


Yes. It's what causes them to fuse. Why they actualy do it is beacuse the sponge-like growth plates at the end of long bones are vulnerable to stresses caused by things like lifting heavy weights. Baisicly fusing of growth plates serves to protect bones from excessive stress which could cause damage and even fracture.


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

Pte. Gaisford said:
			
		

> Yes. It's what causes them to fuse. Why they actualy do it is beacuse the sponge-like growth plates at the end of long bones are vulnerable to stresses caused by things like lifting heavy weights. Baisicly fusing of growth plates serves to protect bones from excessive stress which could cause damage and even fracture.



testosterone also plays a role.  The majority of excess estrogen in males comes from the conversion of testosterone to Estrodiol- your estros are what casuse the growth plates to fuse. That why teens who take steroids are short, because during steroid use there is a large amount of test that aromatizes into estrodiol causing "feminization"- another side to that in teens is premature growth plate closure.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076703 thats mentioned in this article. Near the middle I think.


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (26 Mar 2005)

Wasn't disagreeing with you, BeadWindow. Just mentioning one of the reasons why physiology works that way. You are obviously way more current on this stuff than I am.


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

Pte. Gaisford said:
			
		

> Wasn't disagreeing with you, BeadWindow. Just mentioning one of the reasons why physiology works that way. You are obviously way more current on this stuff than I am.



And I wasnt with you! LOL I was agreeing and adding to your statement LOL!


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> Wrong again. Look at teen body builders. Ive seen awesome physiques on kids that are fifteen, because they diet and train properly. As soon as they hit puberty their bodies are itching to grow.



HOw in the heck am I "wrong again" Beadwidow? I haven't seen one thread of evidence that anything I have said so far has been wrong. You are the one that is confused here. In the statement above you say that teen bodybuilders have awesome physiques  because they train and diet properly and then later you agree that it is not recommended at a young age because it causes the growth plates to fuse. Make up your mind. I simply implied that it is not RECOMMENDED to weight train before you are FULLY developed.

Bojangles


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (26 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> HOw in the heck am I "wrong again" Beadwidow? I haven't seen one thread of evidence that anything I have said so far has been wrong. You are the one that is confused here. In the statement above you say that teen bodybuilders have awesome physiques   because they train and diet properly and then later you agree that it is not recommended at a young age because it causes the growth plates to fuse. Make up your mind. I simply implied that it is not RECOMMENDED to weight train before you are FULLY developed.
> 
> Bojangles


Depends on what sort of weight training you are doing. 'Body Building' and 'Power Lifting' are not recommended for younger, less developed people. Hitting the gym and doing some supervised lighter lifting as part of a fitness regimen, however, is perfectly acceptable starting at adolescense.


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

Pte. Gaisford said:
			
		

> Depends on what sort of weight training you are doing. 'Body Building' and 'Power Lifting' are not recommended for younger, less developed people. Hitting the gym and doing some supervised lighter lifting as part of a fitness regimen, however, is perfectly acceptable starting at adolescense.



I agree with you 100%. In the beginning of this conversation we were specifically talking about training to muscle failure and body building ( or should I say "bulking up") to which I commented that it is not generally recommended to train in the regard until one is fully developed. I also taught martial arts and boxing for the past 18 years and we did have the younger athletes training with "lighter weights".

Bojangles


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (26 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> I agree with you 100%. In the beginning of this conversation we were specifically talking about training to muscle failure and body building ( or should I say "bulking up") to which I commented that it is not generally recommended to train in the regard until one is fully developed. I also taught martial arts and boxing for the past 18 years and we did have the younger athletes training with "lighter weights".
> 
> Bojangles


I think the whole arguement here is nothing but communication break down (probably exacerbated by the tone some people have taken in their arguments).

Having been one of the 'younger athletes training with the lighter weights' I will add that you still put on muscle mass, and weight. The other benefit to doing this type of lifting at a young age is that you get experience in the gym and learn proper technique. This way once you hit the adult-onset muscle mass phaze of growth, you have a good background in lifting which will let you start piling on the weight. Currently I do train to a point nearing failure and have had no problems, although I'd probably be doing better if I stayed out of the bars and did less of the good old 20oz bicep curls.


----------



## bojangles (26 Mar 2005)

Pte. Gaisford said:
			
		

> I think the whole arguement here is nothing but communication break down (probably exacerbated by the tone some people have taken in their arguments).
> 
> That's the one downfall of using this medium to communicate. Things are easily distorted and the next thing you know...all hell breaks loose. Like most, I don't like being told I am wrong about something I am educated on. Then to top it off...for sarcasm sake being called "prostar"...what's the point in that?
> As I mentioned earlier, I am a pretty open minded person and if you want to add your advice to something I have said or disagree with me on something, that's fine and well but don't be a jerk about it.
> ...


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

bojangles said:
			
		

> The 16 yr old who only does bench is not huge for a number of reasons...the main one being that he/she is not fully developed yet. That is why weight training is not recommended while one is still in the growing phase...."Prostar!"


This what im refering too. You say they dont get big when they train to failure because "they arent fully developed yet". This isnt true because 16 year old kids who train properly get huge. The reason that the 16 year old bencher doesnt get huge is because they are not training properly. AND the kid who isnt getting huge is the one who applies the "muscle failure" principle incorrectly.   Show me an article that offers sound science regarding training to failure ALL THE TIME





			
				bojangles said:
			
		

> HOw in the heck am I "wrong again" Beadwidow? I haven't seen one thread of evidence that anything I have said so far has been wrong. You are the one that is confused here. In the statement above you say that teen bodybuilders have awesome physiques   because they train and diet properly and then later you agree that it is not recommended at a young age because it causes the growth plates to fuse. Make up your mind. I simply implied that it is not RECOMMENDED to weight train before you are FULLY developed.
> 
> Bojangles



I think teens can weight train. I did and Im 6'3". Its didnt affect my growth. There was a question about growth plates so i answered it. I can assure you I am not confused.

I retract my Prostar comment LOL. I just like discussing this stuff.....maybe Im coming accross as   ajerk. But I simply must demand you show how your advice is sound. Im more than willing to read and learn.


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

NiTz said:
			
		

> The general rule to gain muscle mass is 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Follow this, EAT EAT EAT and EAT MORE! Then, you should be able to pack solid muscle within reasonable time! Feel free to PM me if you got questions about it, but I think Bojangles explained it very weel already!



Hmm....1 gram is the low end of bulking. 1 gram is the amount required by your body for maintaining your current muscle level, 1-1.6grams is a more appropriate amount. During bulking phases I shoot for 2-4 grams per lean body pound,


----------



## Canadian Sig (26 Mar 2005)

.....maybe Im coming accross as   ajerk. But I simply must demand you show how your advice is sound. Im more than willing to read and learn.

   Not much maybe about it.
Show your fellow "posters" some respect


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (26 Mar 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> Hmm....1 gram is the low end of bulking. 1 gram is the amount required by your body for maintaining your current muscle level, 1-1.6grams is a more appropriate amount. During bulking phases I shoot for 2-4 grams per lean body pound,


A problem I notice is the protein fixation. To be sure you need it and in sufficien quantity. (1.6g should be plentyfor all but the most dedicated lifters as after that you are likely just pissing it out). You need more than just protein though. Proper diet and suffcient quantity of food in general is also important. I am sure you know this, but not everyone who reads this topic will. When you are trying to get bigger you need the calories. Your body can only process so much protein. For a skinny guy trying to gain weight this will probably equate to about 4000+ calories a day where only 20% of the food intake is protein. For somone who is already 'bigger' it should be closer to 30%.


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

Canadian Sig said:
			
		

> .....maybe Im coming accross as   ajerk. But I simply must demand you show how your advice is sound. Im more than willing to read and learn.
> 
> 
> > Not much maybe about it.
> ...


----------



## DogOfWar (26 Mar 2005)

Pte. Gaisford said:
			
		

> A problem I notice is the protein fixation. To be sure you need it and in sufficien quantity. (1.6g should be plentyfor all but the most dedicated lifters as after that you are likely just pissing it out). You need more than just protein though. Proper diet and suffcient quantity of food in general is also important. I am sure you know this, but not everyone who reads this topic will. When you are trying to get bigger you need the calories. Your body can only process so much protein. For a skinny guy trying to gain weight this will probably equate to about 4000+ calories a day where only 20% of the food intake is protein. For somone who is already 'bigger' it should be closer to 30%.



true true.I Believe that we consume to much protein in the Body building.but I consume an over abundance to ensure I have enough.


----------



## Canadian Sig (27 Mar 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> bad advice. or advice without facts or studies does not deserve respect.



 Well your fellow troops deserve it. "prostar" is not respectful. On this forum you don't always know who you are talking to and it is expected that respect will be given regardless of rank ect.


----------



## DogOfWar (27 Mar 2005)

Canadian Sig said:
			
		

> Well your fellow troops deserve it. "prostar" is not respectful. On this forum you don't always know who you are talking to and it is expected that respect will be given regardless of rank ect.



I already retracted the prostar comment. SO go measure dicks elsewhere. In fact Bojangles is qualified to talk. Which is why Im taking her to task. I want to discuss and learn. SO I retracted. You add nothing to the conversation.

Back on topic please! 

Bojangles- do you have a book I should read that you've read on the subject? Any recommends- Im open minded.


----------



## bojangles (27 Mar 2005)

I don't really beleive in recommending any specific book because as we all know, books are nothing more than opinions.The same as yours and mine may differ, so does one author to the next. Just because someone "a well known body builder" from your former post, may have written something does NOT mean that it is necessarily correct. It is simply his opinion. There are studies conducted all the time regarding fitness and the results of these tests are challanged every day. My educational studies in both College and University are in the fitness field. I took Recreation in College and Sports Psychology in University. I then took NCCP (National Coaching Certification Program) up to level 3, which means I am qualified to coach professional athletes. My specified sport is Boxing and I have been coaching since 1995 both amateur and pro athletes. Boxers face some very difficult challanges in the sport with "making weight" being one of the biggest. My job is to get my athlete to the weight class they need/want to fight in and have them always being in the best shape possible for that weight. Most of the time for my male athletes, this means they want to gain weight. I have NEVER in my years of experience had any problems with the "training to failure" principle in packing on lean muscle . It has worked well for me and my athletes and I will continue to have them train in this fashion until someone else can show me a more efficient and effective way to get them to where they need to be. 
Besides being a NCCP qualified coach, I have worked at GoodLife Fitness as well as the YMCA as a Personal Trainer since 1990. So what I am trying to get across here is that I know what I do based on plain, old fashion, down and dirty...EXPERIENCE!  

Bojangles


----------



## NiTz (30 Mar 2005)

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> Hmm....1 gram is the low end of bulking. 1 gram is the amount required by your body for maintaining your current muscle level, 1-1.6grams is a more appropriate amount. During bulking phases I shoot for 2-4 grams per lean body pound,



Oohh.. cool I didn't know you could go for so much protein! I agree fully with the fact that it's better to have too much protein and piss it than not enough. Anyways, 4 g. of protein per lean body pound makes a lot of protein! Better go and offer me a shake now!  

Cheers!


----------



## plattypuss (30 Mar 2005)

Bojangles

This column was a very interesting read and I especially enjoyed the debate over muscle failure training.  I think a lot of the comments that have been written are deserving of merit.  I am interested in the quandry that must be faced for a boxer to meet the weight (which I assume would mean in most cases dropping the weight) and maintaining muscle endurance/strength.  I would have thought that for a boxer muscle endurance might be more important than muscle strength.  Do you change your exercise recomendations for a boxer so that they might build muscle endurance as opposed to building strength?  If yes would this then be lighter weight more reps (12-15)?  This also ties in to the debate slightly as you previously mentioned that higher rep exercises tend to be for toning muscle not building bulk.  I guess the cautionary for training to failure might be to ensure that you have a trg partner or a certified trainer to ensure that trg failure does not mean you train to injury.  
I might recommend that for general military life that the skinny person may be better served to train for endurance as opposed to bulk.
Off topic - Does anyone know what happenned to Muscle Media magazine? Years ago (before Pavlov) I thought it was one of the better magazines out there.


----------



## Island Ryhno (31 Mar 2005)

Muscle Media disappeared, I didn't care for it much as it was owned by EAS and all the articles were basically a marketing venue for EAS supplements. I like EAS stuff, but i didn't like reading about how it turned people into great works of art all the time, got sickening after awhile  : As for the protein consumption, I'm a little skeptical about this stuff and here is why, you know who pushes that 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight stuff....Supplement companies, Weider, EAS, Pro Lab, they all have their own magazines and their own spokespeople. All advice should be taken with a grain of salt. You do need protein to build muscle, no doubt about it but it can get out of hand. Here are some figures for you, an average size chicken breast has 28g protein, each gram of protein has about 4 calories. So lets say your 165lbs trying to add 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. You would have to eat 12 chicken breasts a day, which is 1344 calories alone (not counting carbs or fat which I assume would be in your other foods) Now I know, I know what about protein shakes right, well ok lets say you supplement with GNC's Pro Performance Elite Whey Protein (that's what I use) it has 160 cals and 40g protein per serving (without milk) so lets divide your protein into supps and food, because, cmon no one is going to eat 12 chix breasts. So at 165lbs x 2g protein = 330g protein So 4 protein shakes will give you 160g protein, that leaves you with 170g protein to go at 28g per chix breast your looking at 170/28 = 6.071 chix breasts. Enjoy your meal!


----------



## NiTz (3 Apr 2005)

humm... seen this way, it looks impossible. I'm 165 pounds and I never ate more than 180 g a day.. and that was a BIG day! Like.. 3 shakes, I ate chicken for dinner and steak for supper ...

How can this be? Let's say, for a 250 pounds guys, that would be 500g of protein? Geeezz... looks like it's way too much IMO.


Cheers


----------



## Island Ryhno (3 Apr 2005)

Exactly Nitz, it is almost impossible, I'm 290lbs, do you know how much protein I would have to take at 4 grams per pound of body weight as someone suggested? 1160 grams of protein per day  :  So lets look at it the way most sensible body builders do, that is 1gr per pound of body weight, with a high of 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Seems a little more attainable now doesn't it.


----------



## NiTz (3 Apr 2005)

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Exactly Nitz, it is almost impossible, I'm 290lbs, do you know how much protein I would have to take at 4 grams per pound of body weight as someone suggested? 1160 grams of protein per day  :  So lets look at it the way most sensible body builders do, that is 1gr per pound of body weight, with a high of 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Seems a little more attainable now doesn't it.



Indeed it does.. I guess i'll stay with the good ol' rule of 1 g. It worked fine so far (took nearly 35 pounds in a year) so i'll stick with it.

By the way, at 290lbs, you must be pretty ripped. When did you start lifting?

Cheers!


----------



## Island Ryhno (3 Apr 2005)

I've been lifting for about 5 years solid, with on and off gym time for the past 10 years. At 295lbs I'm fat, I hurt my shoulder bad playing hockey and was out of the gym for the past 18 months, at that time I balooned, I'm hoping to get down around 250lbs by August, at 250lbs my body fat was closing in on 15% which is good, I'm a naturally big guy. I was 225lbs and ripped in grade 10, oh the good old days  ;D


----------



## NiTz (3 Apr 2005)

wow.. 15% b.f. at 250 lbs that's awesome! You're lucky to be a naturally big guy, I am pretty small and I don't like it. at 5'8" 165 lbs.. geezzz that's not very impressive, but a solid 250lbs is!

Keep on the good work!


Cheers!


----------



## Island Ryhno (3 Apr 2005)

Yeah well sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, i.e. I can lug around about 3 times the weight of most people for 3 times as long but running, well I'd trade you that 250 for 165, I bet you could run me into the ground. Ces't la vie, I say work with what you got, I struggle real hard to run 5k, but when something needs to be pushed, pulled or dragged, guess who gets the call   Everyones got their thing, and I believe there is a use for all body types in the forces.


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs (3 Apr 2005)

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Yeah well sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, i.e. I can lug around about 3 times the weight of most people for 3 times as long but running, well I'd trade you that 250 for 165, I bet you could run me into the ground. Ces't la vie, I say work with what you got, I struggle real hard to run 5k, but when something needs to be pushed, pulled or dragged, guess who gets the call    Everyones got their thing, and I believe there is a use for all body types in the forces.


I bet you'd also make a much better human breaching device than him  ;D


----------



## NiTz (3 Apr 2005)

Lol! Oh, i'm not a good runner at all! I hate running! I like more to pull or push things but i'm not heavy enough so sometimes I can't move something because I move myself instead.. lol!


Cheers!


----------



## platoon_man (19 Oct 2008)

some of these tips seems helpful.. and i am starting out a protein shake diet

But urr i wonder if it will work in time for me, I am extremely skinny, like refugee like skinny. I eat tons (believe me).. I am currently 110 pounds at 5 feet 9.  How much will i gain in lets say 3 to 4 months with regular workouts on my new diet?  
According to the CF guide i should be at 140 pounds at least, and i 'm sure my medical wil probably come before i'm ready.... Does the CF deny you if you are too skinny?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (19 Oct 2008)

Do yourself a favour...read all the FAQs here you can including the Guidelines. Then ask your questions. Plenty of info out there if you know how to use the search function.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## [RICE] (20 Oct 2008)

I'd like to throw my $0.02 in, being that I am around 5'10" and weigh 125 lbs and have 3% body fat. When I started working out (not intensely by any means) I weighed around 115 lbs, that was around the beginning of the summer. I have a crazy metabolism, I can eat anything and not gain / shed a single pound. Since then I have obviously put on a bit of muscle, but not much mass by any means. This might also be the case for you. The biggest difference that I have noticed by far is that working out for me has gone from something I forced myself to do to something I enjoy (especially push-ups  ). I've never had a routine, I just do what I feel like doing on that day.
For the rest of your questions, I would give my personal input, but I don't feel that I am in any way in a position where it would help, as I am not in the forces yet.

As previously stated, find out what works best for you because each person is different. You'll know when you've found the right way.


----------



## aesop081 (20 Oct 2008)

When i joined, i was 5' 9" and weighed 120 Lbs.........guess what 

I GOSH DARNED GONE DID IT AND PASSED THIS HERE COURSE !!


Quit freakin worrying ..................


----------



## Frank G (26 Oct 2008)

Some stats: 5'8", 16 y/o and 127 pounds, I'm an ectomorph (real term for "skinny guys") .. obviously. what I currently do is one week of "intense cardio" ( 2 hours a day everyday ) and one week of power training ( 3-4 times a week ). In a year I gained about 6 pounds of lean mass. I read a lot of nutrition/sports books, sites, people's opinions , etc. Enough to have my own "philosophy" and opinion about weight lifting and diets. I know this forum is great to get help and advice but don't forget that there are thousand of websites that already answered your question, so go take a look at them, and don't stop after one website/book! Anyway here's a website with lots of exercises and programs :
http://www.menshealth.com/powertraining/cms/publish/workouts/index.php    
Train smart

Frank


----------



## DiamondDarryl (30 Oct 2008)

Frank, when your 16 years old and 127 pounds your body should be building at least 6 pounds of muscle a year whether your training or not. Your testosterone should be fairly high during these adolescent stages making some muscle gain inevitable. I am 6'4 and went from 170 to 205 and the most important thing for us skinny guys is caloric intake. You may think your eating a truckload but if your maintaining an "intense cardio" routine your either going have to eat MORE food or cut down your aerobic activity. This has been said earlier in the thread but I will reiterate it.       - Eat Lots, Often, high protein foods (chicken, beef, fish, protein shakes if you have too)
                                                                            -Train Hard, stay in the 4-8 rep range for mass building, (Squats, Pullups, Benchpress,  overhead presses, deadlifts, ect.)
                                                                            - Cut down your cardio ( instense short sessions if you must.)
                                                                            - Get a solid 8+ hours sleep a night
You WILL gain weight if you follow these guidelines.


----------



## jonathan_power (1 Nov 2008)

im 14, 5'9 140lbs 

my dream is to be SOF, but i have lots of time to build on some more muscle right? 
i am starting to workout more often too, mostly arms chest.

but whats the best to increase some mass on my back, like neck/shoulder blade area

how much protein should i be getting each day


----------



## George Wallace (1 Nov 2008)

jonathan_power said:
			
		

> im 14, 5'9 140lbs
> 
> my dream is to be SOF, but i have lots of time to build on some more muscle right?
> i am starting to workout more often too, mostly arms chest.
> ...



I would think that at 14, you are a bit too young to be worrying about this.  Wait a few years, until you are around 18, and you will probably have found that your "fears" were unfounded.


----------



## RyGuy009 (19 Nov 2008)

im 18 and i am about 5'11" and about 140. not matter how much beer i drink, how much i eat, i just dont gain weight. i eat earls food 4 times a week(i know thats bad, i try not to but its hard when you close a kitchen 4 nights in a row and get off a 0230) i am applying for ROTP Pilot and therefore i have to train for the CF Leadership & Recruit School Fitness Standards. I can do 27 push ups, but cant go much past that. doing 41 sit ups is easier, and can go a little past that, and chin ups i can do ten, but im not sure if i am doing it to the military standards. and as for the run, i can do 12 laps of 200 meters in about 12:18 last time i did it. i try to do the run once a week.

tips and advice would be appreciated
(i also read other similar posts fyi)
THanks


----------



## rod_barolo (18 Jan 2009)

Hey guys this wannabe is a little intimidated to post on this lively debate, especially since it was not that long ago that I thought a thread was something to sew a button on with. I preferred to spend my spare time staying fit.  So, this is not from an expert but it is what works for me.

Do not run intensly if you want to gain weight. This is probably the most important point I can add.
Read what you can - I think that Fitness RX is one of the better mags out there.  I would highly recommend a trainer.  If you can't do that then do not be intimated and just go up to someone that looks like they know what they are doing and ask questions.  Start off with a compliment and you'd be surprised at how much most of these guys like to share.  No one ever came out of the womb lookin like Arnie.  There is a lot to know but none of it is complicated.  Trust me on this one.  You can waste a lot of time doing things the wrong way.

One of the things that may have made this a lively debate is the fact that different things work for different people.  So, keep a journal and document.  For me I found changing up programs and rep ranges etc very important.  Four grams of protein is way too much and very expensive.  That much can also be getting close to toxic for the liver on a longer term basis. (not an expert, but informed amature.) I think that there may have been some confusion on the failure/intensity debate.  One of the best piece of advice I ever got was from a guy that played pro ball in the U.S. and likely benched like 450 or more.  Let say you do 4 sets of 10 reps.  You work hard on the first 3 sets but NOT to failure.  Then on that last set bring your game.  Do some negatives or pyramids (research the web, or ask me or at the gym if you do not know) Playing a mind game here works great for me.  Get aggressive!!  Play loud heavy metal music and visualize about ripping that fu**kin Taliban coc*sucker's
head off. Competing with your buddy is great.  It is also pretty hard to over motivate yourself.  Have a big Canadian flag (or whatever works for you) up in your room to remind you.  Also while this is very doable without supplements, they have been a great help for me and I would recommend them.

Finally, remember that us skinny guys are the lucky ones.  Not only is running such a huge factor in CF fitness, the pushups and chin ups are body weight relative.  Not as a bragging point, but rather as encouragement for the skinny guys - I can smoke that pro football player on wide grip chin ups.  Also ,the ladies choose ripped abs as the hottest body part by a wide margin.

Again, thanks so kindly to all those guys that just want to help us wannabes.  It is greatly appreciated.

cheers,

Rod


----------



## The_Falcon (22 Jan 2009)

rod_barolo said:
			
		

> Hey guys this wannabe is a little intimidated to post on this lively debate, especially since it was not that long ago that I thought a thread was something to sew a button on with. I preferred to spend my spare time staying fit.  So, this is not from an expert but it is what works for me.
> 
> Do not run intensly if you want to gain weight.





> This is probably the most important point I can add.
> Read what you can - I think that Fitness RX is one of the better mags out  there.



Every mag is suspect, the programs rarely vary and are usually just designed to sell supplement products.  If your are skinny guy/begining weightlifter and you want to gain mass, google starting strength/Mark Rippetoe and start reading.



> I would highly recommend a *competent*trainer.



Fixed that for you, and easier said than done in the Globo-Gym environment (a certain gym that promotes a "Good" Lifestyle, only requires its trainers to have a Can-Fit-Pro cert, which in essence teachs you how to describe exercises in very fancy terms, and what "machine" exercises to use, but thats as far as it goes).



> If you can't do that then do not be intimated and just go up to someone that looks like they know what they are doing and ask questions.


  NO, bad idea, even worse, for one, if you get hurt following that persons "adivce", you are up the creek with out a paddle.  Second, guaranteed, most of the people who "look like" they know what they are doing, usually get their training advice from such enlightened magazines as Muscle&Fitness and Flex.  



> Start off with a compliment and you'd be surprised at how much most of these guys like to share.


 See, above



> No one ever came out of the womb lookin like Arnie.  There is a lot to know but none of it is complicated.  Trust me on this one.  You can waste a lot of time doing things the wrong way.


  Actually, learning to do things like deadlifts, squats, presses, power cleans, properly is a bit complicated (not much, but very few of the trainers/patron in most globo gyms, have the requisite skills to teach/practice these).  Although doing things the wrong way, does waste time, i agree with you there.



> One of the things that may have made this a lively debate is the fact that different things work for different people.  So, keep a journal and document.  For me I found changing up programs and rep ranges etc very important.  Four grams of protein is way too much and very expensive.  That much can also be getting close to toxic for the liver on a longer term basis. (not an expert, but informed amature.) I think that there may have been some confusion on the failure/intensity debate.  One of the best piece of advice I ever got was from a guy that played pro ball in the U.S. and likely benched like 450 or more.  Let say you do 4 sets of 10 reps.  You work hard on the first 3 sets but NOT to failure.  Then on that last set bring your game.  Do some negatives or pyramids (research the web, or ask me or at the gym if you do not know) Playing a mind game here works great for me.  Get aggressive!!  Play loud heavy metal music and visualize about ripping that fu**kin Taliban coc*sucker's
> head off. Competing with your buddy is great.  It is also pretty hard to over motivate yourself.  Have a big Canadian flag (or whatever works for you) up in your room to remind you.  Also while this is very doable without supplements, they have been a great help for me and I would recommend them.


 No quibbles, more or less here.



> Finally, remember that us skinny guys are the lucky ones.  Not only is running such a huge factor in CF fitness


Actually, overall fitness (ala crossfit) is starting to gain a lot of traction.  As well, its not so much running per se, but more physical endurance/stamina, that is really important.



> the pushups and chin ups are body weight relative.  Not as a bragging point, but rather as encouragement for the skinny guys - I can smoke that pro football player on wide grip chin ups.


 Sorta right, most of those behomoths don't really practice body weight exercises, so to suggest they "can't" do that well doing pushups/chinups, is a bit of misnomer.  There are plenty of videos floating out there on the net showing fairly big guys, who can knock out insane pushups/pullup numbers.  Its all about strength-weight ratio.


----------

