# My Story (Unique CAF case). Help needed for this messed up situation.



## AuthenticTshirt (7 Feb 2015)

Before I start, please note that I do not have DWAN, EMMA, and any access to any CFAO's, DAOD's, Canforgen's or anything and it has been a nightmare getting any information or any real help through my CoC so far. I have even reached out passed my CoC and have been turned away or told to not try anymore before they even helped me.

My Story and current problem:
I barely passed high school in 2003. In 2008, I went to college for business, hated it but ended up falling in love with math and physics. In 2010, I started at Queen's U for Physics as a mature student. The first year as a mature student you are required to do 1 year on academic probation, which is 75% average as a part time student, then you get accepted as a full time student. After my first year, I had a new born son and was choking in OSAP debt and struggling to live. Realizing I needed more for my son and wife, I looked for a career that would support my family but also help me stay with academics. I found the CAF. 

I applied to the CAF in Jan 2011 for the ROTP to be an AERE. I was denied because Mature student wasn't a "normal entry" to university, so the detachment center wanted to use my high school marks for the ROTP app. Since my HS marks were garbage I didn't get in. 6 months later, I had to go on welfare and take time off school to get a job. Realizing I wanted a career worth having, I applied to the CAF as an NCM-SEP. 

_Here is where it gets really messed up. _When I got my offer to join the NCM-SEP, the mbr I dealt with told me that he saw I had applied for the ROTP. He then told me that, since I was a registered full-time student when I applied, I was exempt from needing to use my High school marks on the ROTP app, and that I should have in fact been accepted for the ROTP. Since I passed every other part of the ROTP app process and AERE was an in demand job at the time. He told me because the last mbr who did my ROTP app, did it wrong, I basically got screwed over. Since I was out of university for 6 months and needed a job NOW I didn't have the luxury of waiting till next year to reapply for the ROTP and had no choice but to take a job now. In May 2013, I went to basic and in Sept 2013 started college for my NCM-SEP program. 

With no access to any CFAOs, DAOD's, or anything, I have to email my chain for every single question I have or any document I need to be able to look into my case. Most questions are just answered with pretty much an "Well I am not sure. Maybe I will get more info for you later"(Which never happens). I can't get over the feeling of losing so much that I worked for(self-learning for years and going from failing HS to getting into UNI and taking Physics) because someone did paperwork poorly. 

Now the problems I face are: 
- I can't apply for ROTP without VRing. (Which can't happen because I need to support my family.)
- To be eligible to apply to the UTP-NCM I have to stay in my trade for years to get QL5 qualified. (Which I would probably lose my student status by then. Since my HS marks are bad the only way I could reapply would be as a mature student; you can't enter the UTP-NCM that way)

I worked so hard to go from nothing to be able to get into University. My true choice for a career is AERE officer not AVS tech. I am still a full-time registered student at Queen's University and am allowed to start going tomorrow for my degree if I wanted to. What I want to do is switch from NCM to Officer so that I will get sent to University and be able to work in my true career of choice.

How am I able to go about getting help to do this? I don't know what to do.

If anyone could advise it would be so greatly appreciated.


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## Kat Stevens (7 Feb 2015)

Is there a CFB or Det nearby, or within an hour or twos drive?  Book an appointment to see a PSO and see if there's anything they can do for you.


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## DAA (13 Feb 2015)

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> I applied to the CAF in Jan 2011 for the ROTP to be an AERE. I was denied because Mature student wasn't a "normal entry" to university, so the detachment center wanted to use my high school marks for the ROTP app. Since my HS marks were garbage I didn't get in. 6 months later, I had to go on welfare and take time off school to get a job. Realizing I wanted a career worth having, I applied to the CAF as an NCM-SEP.
> 
> _Here is where it gets really messed up. _When I got my offer to join the NCM-SEP, the mbr I dealt with told me that he saw I had applied for the ROTP. He then told me that, since I was a registered full-time student when I applied, I was exempt from needing to use my High school marks on the ROTP app, and that I should have in fact been accepted for the ROTP. Since I passed every other part of the ROTP app process and AERE was an in demand job at the time. He told me because the last mbr who did my ROTP app, did it wrong, I basically got screwed over. Since I was out of university for 6 months and needed a job NOW I didn't have the luxury of waiting till next year to reapply for the ROTP and had no choice but to take a job now. In May 2013, I went to basic and in Sept 2013 started college for my NCM-SEP program.
> 
> ...



I'll address your first concern which was the problems you encountered during the processing of your ROTP application.  "High School" marks, regardless of how old they are, will "always" be used during the ROTP assessment process, even if you applied for ROTP today!  Seeing as you have completed university level credit courses, then the assessment becomes slightly more complicated and they will use both your High School marks and your completed University course marks combined in order to make a decision on suitability.   Now on to the here and now.......

You're right, you can't currently apply for ROTP without first VRing.  But there could be two catches with this scenario.  If you VR, you "might" be required to  reimburse the CF for the College Education that you have already completed and on top of that, you would not be allowed to re-apply to any component of the CF (Reg or Res) for a minimum period of 12 months from your date of release.

I don't think you understand the full concept of UTPNCM.  Yes you do have to hold the minimum "substantive" rank of Cpl.  But there is no such thing as "Mature Student".  UTPNCM is an in-service commissioning program and all currently serving CF NCM's who apply, are treated equally.  UTPNCM applicants are required to submit ALL their academic transcripts (HS, College, Univ, etc) as part of the process, along with a host of other requirements.  In your case, this would probably be the best route for you to go.

If you want to stay in the CF and continue to draw a pay cheque to support your family but become an Officer in the future, I can't see anything else other than UPTNCM being your only option at this time.


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## AuthenticTshirt (13 Feb 2015)

DAA said:
			
		

> I'll address your first concern which was the problems you encountered during the processing of your ROTP application.  "High School" marks, regardless of how old they are, will "always" be used during the ROTP assessment process, even if you applied for ROTP today!  Seeing as you have completed university level credit courses, then the assessment becomes slightly more complicated and they will use both your High School marks and your completed University course marks combined in order to make a decision on suitability.   Now on to the here and now.......
> 
> You're right, you can't currently apply for ROTP without first VRing.  But there could be two catches with this scenario.  If you VR, you "might" be required to  reimburse the CF for the College Education that you have already completed and on top of that, you would not be allowed to re-apply to any component of the CF (Reg or Res) for a minimum period of 12 months from your date of release.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the great response.  I also have recently learned that once I have obtained spec pay for my trade that I will, if accepted into the UTP-NCM, stay at the spec pay level while attending university. 

It seems like the best option is, as you said, to stay in my trade and make a pay check until I can go for the UTP-NCM. Plus, if I get AERE like I want. Having AVS experience would be amazing. Some AEREs oversee AVS, AVN, and ACS techs if I am not mistaken.

Not to mention while I have to wait I can still:
- Continue to take online courses at University through an ILP; which will make me more competitive for the UTP-NCM, keep me fresh on material and in the habit of studying often.  
- Retake 6 "Gr12 high school U level(Ontario) classes", so that if my OSSD is taken into account during the UTP-NCM process, I am once again very competitive. 
- if I am not mistaken, maybe get my PLQ course. Which would make up for the difference between BMQ and BMOQ. Although, I am not sure if that matters in regards to the UTP-NCM or commissioning from the ranks.


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## Melbatoast (13 Feb 2015)

Yeah I think you're in a pretty good position for UTP. Just bear in mind it is an officer production program, so demonstrated leadership ability is the phrase you want to remember, academic marks are less important (ask me how I know...OK, long story short, on application mine were a disaster but still got it). In which case, something like PLQ and your level of achievement on it, is very important.


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## Pusser (13 Feb 2015)

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> - Retake 6 "Gr12 high school U level(Ontario) classes", so that if my OSSD is taken into account during the UTP-NCM process, I am once again very competitive.



I would talk to a Personnel Selection Officer (PSO) on this before taking any high school courses.  Every base has at least one PSO and you can book an appointment to get advice.  It would seem to me that if you've already got university courses under your belt, then high school courses are less important, especially if they're in the same area.


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## Kat Stevens (13 Feb 2015)

Pusser said:
			
		

> I would talk to a Personnel Selection Officer (PSO) on this before taking any high school courses.  Every base has at least one PSO and you can book an appointment to get advice.  It would seem to me that if you've already got university courses under your belt, then high school courses are less important, especially if they're in the same area.



What a great idea.


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## MedCorps (13 Feb 2015)

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> It seems like the best option is, as you said, to stay in my trade and make a pay check until I can go for the UTP-NCM. Plus, if I get AERE like I want. Having AVS experience would be amazing. Some AEREs oversee AVS, AVN, and ACS techs if I am not mistaken.



This sounds like a pretty reasonable plan.  Time spent as an NCM / NCO and AVS will make you a better officer / AERE in my opinion. Enjoy your time as a AVS and the experiences you on your QL3 / QL5 and in between. When you have time work to make your application for UTPNCM as attractive as possible (see the Wing PSO). As soon as your done your QL5 start the application process for UTPNCM, remembering not everyone is successful on the first or second try and persistence is part of the road to success.  

Good luck. 

MC


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