# Harassment Cards in UK



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:27:13 -0500*
It looks like someone is actually trying the harassment cards - Check 
out this story from Britain:
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=3D004037159634576pg=3D/et/00/12/23/ncar 
d23.html
Trainee soldiers given power to ‘send off‘ officers
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
 Policy - Ministry of Defence
  THE Army introduced a football-style red card system allowing trainee 
soldiers to "send off" their instructors, amid concerns that tough 
training methods are scaring away recruits.
Red and yellow cards were given to all recruits arriving at Pirbright, 
the former Guards depot and once home to the most ferocious of the 
Army‘s drill sergeants. But standards fell after the base became one of 
the Army‘s "centres of excellence", providing training for soldiers from 
other units apart from the Brigade of Guards.
If the young soldiers thought that their instructor was shouting too 
much they could pull out a yellow card that meant they had to be left 
alone for 15 minutes to recover. If they were really distressed, they 
could pull out the red card and the drill sergeant would have to explain 
his reasons to a senior officer. News of the system follows disclosures 
that the Army is concerned that drill commands might be contravening 
health and safety regulations.
Gen Sir Charles Guthrie, Chief of Defence Staff, said earlier this week 
that the "creeping advance" of health and safety legislation in the 
Armed Forces might be creating a climate of "risk aversion". He warned 
that in future soldiers might sue their commanders for putting them in 
risky situations.
Warren Edge, a former Irish Guards lance sergeant who was an instructor 
at Pirbright before leaving the Army two years ago, said the card system 
was first tried three years ago. He said the main problem was that the 
standard of recruits had fallen. He added: "It‘s a joke really. NCOs are 
no longer allowed to shout at a recruit because it is regarded as verbal 
abuse."
An Army spokesman said: "This system was tried very briefly but it was 
not found to be effective. We now send all our training instructors on a 
three-week course to explain to them that new recruits may never have 
been away from home before so they may be frightened when confronted by 
the instructor shouting at them."
However, callers to a phone-in programme on TalkSport Radio yesterday 
insisted that the red card system had been in use until at least very 
recently. One senior NCO who is still in the Army said recruits arriving 
in his unit were frequently bewildered by the fact that they could no 
longer pull out the red or yellow cards.
He added: "I have friends who are instructors and they can be shouting 
at a soldier - say he is waving a loaded rifle around - and he pulls out 
his yellow card to warn the instructor he might need to send him off."
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
It looks like someone is actually 
trying the
harassment cards - Check out this story from Britain:
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=3D004037159634576 
amppg=3D/et/00/12/23/ncard23.html
Trainee
soldiers given power to ‘send off‘ officersBy Michael Smith, Defence 
Correspondent
Policy - Ministry of
Defence
 THE Army introduced a 
football-style red
card system allowing trainee soldiers to "send off" their instructors, 
amid
concerns that tough training methods are scaring away recruits.Red 
and
yellow cards were given to all recruits arriving at Pirbright, the 
former Guards
depot and once home to the most ferocious of the Army‘s drill sergeants. 
But
standards fell after the base became one of the Army‘s "centres of 
excellence",
providing training for soldiers from other units apart from the Brigade 
of
Guards. 
If the young soldiers thought that 
their instructor
was shouting too much they could pull out a yellow card that meant they 
had to
be left alone for 15 minutes to recover. If they were really distressed, 
they
could pull out the red card and the drill sergeant would have to explain 
his
reasons to a senior officer. News of the system follows disclosures that 
the
Army is concerned that drill commands might be contravening health and 
safety
regulations. 
Gen Sir Charles Guthrie, Chief of 
Defence Staff,
said earlier this week that the "creeping advance" of health and safety
legislation in the Armed Forces might be creating a climate of "risk 
aversion".
He warned that in future soldiers might sue their commanders for putting 
them in
risky situations. 
Warren Edge, a former Irish Guards 
lance sergeant
who was an instructor at Pirbright before leaving the Army two years 
ago, said
the card system was first tried three years ago. He said the main 
problem was
that the standard of recruits had fallen. He added: "It‘s a joke really. 
NCOs
are no longer allowed to shout at a recruit because it is regarded as 
verbal
abuse." 
An Army spokesman said: "This system 
was tried very
briefly but it was not found to be effective. We now send all our 
training
instructors on a three-week course to explain to them that new recruits 
may
never have been away from home before so they may be frightened when 
confronted
by the instructor shouting at them."
However, callers to a phone-in 
programme on
TalkSport Radio yesterday insisted that the red card system had been in 
use
until at least very recently. One senior NCO who is still in the Army 
said
recruits arriving in his unit were frequently bewildered by the fact 
that they
could no longer pull out the red or yellow cards.
He added: "I have friends who are 
instructors and
they can be shouting at a soldier - say he is waving a loaded rifle 
around - and
he pulls out his yellow card to warn the instructor he might need to 
send him
off."
--------------------------------------------------------
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 07:53:03 -0700*
Shortly after I took my release, I heard of something similar being 
tried in the Canadian armed forces....possibly in cfbg? I dunno if it 
was just a rumour,though,at the time
ubique
macf
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"The most unhappy of all men is he who believes himself to be so."
--David Hume
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mike Oleary
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 8:27 AM
  Subject: Harassment Cards in UK
  It looks like someone is actually trying the harassment cards - Check 
out this story from Britain:

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=3D004037159634576pg=3D/et/00/12/23/ncar 
d23.html
  Trainee soldiers given power to ‘send off‘ officers
  By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Shortly after I took 
my release, I
heard of something similar being tried in the Canadian armed 
forces....possibly
in cfbg? I dunno if it was just a rumour,though,at the time
ubique
macf
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"""
"The most unhappy of all men is he who believes himself to be
so."--David Hume
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Mike
  Oleary 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 
2000 8:27
  AM
  Subject: Harassment Cards in 
UK

  It looks like someone is actually 
trying the
  harassment cards - Check out this story from Britain:

   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=3D004037159634576 
amppg=3D/et/00/12/23/ncard23.html


  Trainee
  soldiers given power to ‘send off‘ officersBy Michael Smith, 
Defence
  Correspondent

--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Robert Childs" <adanac1@home.com>* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:56:59 -0500*
God lord what on earth is happening. We sure do get our priorities mixed 
up don‘t we
Can‘t you just see it Ready to go into combat and somebody pulls out a 
card that says my Sgt. yelled at to much during training I am not 
going.I want to see my lawyer first.
God Help us

   Policy - Ministry of Defence
    THE Army introduced a football-style red card system allowing 
trainee soldiers to "send off" their instructors, amid concerns that 
tough training methods are scaring away recruits.
  Red and yellow cards were given to all recruits arriving at Pirbright, 
the former Guards depot and once home to the most ferocious of the 
Army‘s drill sergeants. But standards fell after the base became one of 
the Army‘s "centres of excellence", providing training for soldiers from 
other units apart from the Brigade of Guards.
  If the young soldiers thought that their instructor was shouting too 
much they could pull out a yellow card that meant they had to be left 
alone for 15 minutes to recover. If they were really distressed, they 
could pull out the red card and the drill sergeant would have to explain 
his reasons to a senior officer. News of the system follows disclosures 
that the Army is concerned that drill commands might be contravening 
health and safety regulations.
  Gen Sir Charles Guthrie, Chief of Defence Staff, said earlier this 
week that the "creeping advance" of health and safety legislation in the 
Armed Forces might be creating a climate of "risk aversion". He warned 
that in future soldiers might sue their commanders for putting them in 
risky situations.
  Warren Edge, a former Irish Guards lance sergeant who was an 
instructor at Pirbright before leaving the Army two years ago, said the 
card system was first tried three years ago. He said the main problem 
was that the standard of recruits had fallen. He added: "It‘s a joke 
really. NCOs are no longer allowed to shout at a recruit because it is 
regarded as verbal abuse."
  An Army spokesman said: "This system was tried very briefly but it was 
not found to be effective. We now send all our training instructors on a 
three-week course to explain to them that new recruits may never have 
been away from home before so they may be frightened when confronted by 
the instructor shouting at them."
  However, callers to a phone-in programme on TalkSport Radio yesterday 
insisted that the red card system had been in use until at least very 
recently. One senior NCO who is still in the Army said recruits arriving 
in his unit were frequently bewildered by the fact that they could no 
longer pull out the red or yellow cards.
  He added: "I have friends who are instructors and they can be shouting 
at a soldier - say he is waving a loaded rifle around - and he pulls out 
his yellow card to warn the instructor he might need to send him off."


http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
God lord what on earth is happening. We 
sure do get
our priorities mixedup don‘t we
Can‘t you just see it Ready to go into 
combat and
somebody pulls out a card that says my Sgt. yelled at to much during 
training I
am not going.I want to see my lawyer first.
God Help 
us
  Policy - Ministry of Defence

   THE Army introduced a 
football-style red
  card system allowing trainee soldiers to "send off" their instructors, 
amid
  concerns that tough training methods are scaring away recruits.Red 
and
  yellow cards were given to all recruits arriving at Pirbright, the 
former
  Guards depot and once home to the most ferocious of the Army‘s drill
  sergeants. But standards fell after the base became one of the Army‘s 
"centres
  of excellence", providing training for soldiers from other units apart 
from
  the Brigade of Guards. 

  If the young soldiers thought that 
their
  instructor was shouting too much they could pull out a yellow card 
that meant
  they had to be left alone for 15 minutes to recover. If they were 
really
  distressed, they could pull out the red card and the drill sergeant 
would have
  to explain his reasons to a senior officer. News of the system follows 
  disclosures that the Army is concerned that drill commands might be
  contravening health and safety regulations. 

  Gen Sir Charles Guthrie, Chief of 
Defence Staff,
  said earlier this week that the "creeping advance" of health and 
safety
  legislation in the Armed Forces might be creating a climate of "risk
  aversion". He warned that in future soldiers might sue their 
commanders for
  putting them in risky situations. 

  Warren Edge, a former Irish Guards 
lance sergeant
  who was an instructor at Pirbright before leaving the Army two years 
ago, said
  the card system was first tried three years ago. He said the main 
problem was
  that the standard of recruits had fallen. He added: "It‘s a joke 
really. NCOs
  are no longer allowed to shout at a recruit because it is regarded as 
verbal
  abuse." 

  An Army spokesman said: "This system 
was tried
  very briefly but it was not found to be effective. We now send all our 
  training instructors on a three-week course to explain to them that 
new
  recruits may never have been away from home before so they may be 
frightened
  when confronted by the instructor shouting at them."

  However, callers to a phone-in 
programme on
  TalkSport Radio yesterday insisted that the red card system had been 
in use
  until at least very recently. One senior NCO who is still in the Army 
said
  recruits arriving in his unit were frequently bewildered by the fact 
that they
  could no longer pull out the red or yellow cards.

  He added: "I have friends who are 
instructors and
  they can be shouting at a soldier - say he is waving a loaded rifle 
around -
  and he pulls out his yellow card to warn the instructor he might need 
to send
  him off."


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message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:11:20 -0500*
Rumours of their use in the CF persist, but we have yet to see on this 
list any first hand account i.e., actual staff or students from a 
course that used them. It is apparently an urban myth.
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: The MacFarlanes‘
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 9:53 AM
  Subject: Re: Harassment Cards in UK
  Shortly after I took my release, I heard of something similar being 
tried in the Canadian armed forces....possibly in cfbg? I dunno if it 
was just a rumour,though,at the time
  ubique
  macf

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
  "The most unhappy of all men is he who believes himself to be so."
  --David Hume
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mike Oleary
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
    Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 8:27 AM
    Subject: Harassment Cards in UK
    It looks like someone is actually trying the harassment cards - 
Check out this story from Britain:

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=3D004037159634576pg=3D/et/00/12/23/ncar 
d23.html
    Trainee soldiers given power to ‘send off‘ officers
    By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Rumours of their use in the CF persist, 
but we have
yet to see on this list any first hand account i.e., actual staff or 
students
from a course that used them. It is apparently an urban 
myth.
Mike
The
Regimental Rogue
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  The
  MacFarlanes‘ 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 
2000 9:53
  AM
  Subject: Re: Harassment Cards 
in UK

  Shortly after I took 
my release, I
  heard of something similar being tried in the Canadian armed
  forces....possibly in cfbg? I dunno if it was just a rumour,though,at 
the
  time
  ubique
  macf

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"""

  "The most unhappy of all men is he who believes himself to be 
  so."--David Hume



    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From:
    Mike Oleary 
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
    Sent: Saturday, December 23, 
2000 8:27
    AM
    Subject: Harassment Cards in 
UK

    It looks like someone is actually 
trying the
    harassment cards - Check out this story from Britain:

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=3D004037159634576 
amppg=3D/et/00/12/23/ncard23.html


    Trainee
    soldiers given power to ‘send off‘ officersBy Michael Smith, 
Defence
    Correspondent

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NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:32:20 -0700*
lol.... when I initially heard the rumour, I laughed at the thought of 
some gunner handing my bsm a little card. The visual of him ripping it 
into tiny little pieces, while trying to maintain his composure, was 
just too much!
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
lol.... when I 
initially heard the
rumour, I laughed at the thought of some gunner handing my bsm a little 
card.
The visual of him ripping it into tiny little pieces, while trying to 
maintain
his composure, was just too much!
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"""
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bruce Williams" <Williabr@uregina.ca>* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:06:43 -0600*
What came to my mind was the words.."Prisoner and escort..." followed by 
a choking sound as a red card was produced.
  lol.... when I initially heard the rumour, I laughed at the thought of 
some gunner handing my bsm a little card. The visual of him ripping it 
into tiny little pieces, while trying to maintain his composure, was 
just too much!

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

What came to my mind was the
words.."Prisoner and escort..." followed by a choking sound as a red 
card was
produced.

  lol.... when I 
initially heard the
  rumour, I laughed at the thought of some gunner handing my bsm a 
little card.
  The visual of him ripping it into tiny little pieces, while trying to 
maintain
  his composure, was just too much!

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"""



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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:44:43 EST*
The thought of having it ripped up in my face never occured to me. The 
thought of how I was going to get it out of my ***  would however. 
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:25:08 -0500*
I"ve heard of them many months ago when talking with some British Army
soldier, they we talking about a BBC
documentary on the "new" Royal Marines training where cards where issued
and where most of the trainees
quit because of harsch training "sight" Nintendo couch potatos world
guys!!!!!!
jf
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