# Injuries while in basic



## LilMissChicky (20 Dec 2003)

What are the injuries someone can get while in basic? And which exercise those relates to the most? Shin and knee injuries are obviously due to running but what about broken bones and others? Read through here that quite a few were medically discharged because of it. 
If an applicant spend expensive time to train properly prior to basic and maintain a proper healthy nutrition to stay physically strong. What are the odds to injuries? I‘m trying to avoid this at all cost... can someone help?
I ain‘t gonna quit, I rather be taken out dead instead! So no worries on that one.


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## Redeye (20 Dec 2003)

Worst and most commonly seen I expect are ankle injuries when in the field - depending of course on what training area.  Tank ruts (the six inch wide and up to 12 inch deep ruts found in training areas used by tracked vehicles) are the worst culprit in this respect.  As I learned in my miserable experience, even a minor ankle sprain can lead into much more serious problems through muscle compensation injuries.

If you stay alert and drive the body you‘ll get through things okay.  There is always the chance of injury, it happens, but most of them can be avoided by being fit and alert.


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## Enzo (21 Dec 2003)

It all depends. I was injured on a QL 2/3 and carried on until I was recoursed and required surgery. In hindsight, I should have backed off and recoursed before it got that far along. I had the "nothing will stop me" ethic also. Mine was a lower back most likely occured during bayonette drills of all things. Hard to say as I didn‘t exactly stop to consider it much at the time.

As I said though, this was a Reg Force Basic combined with Battle School course. That isn‘t common, exceptional circumstances at the time. My physical condition was excellent, but I was older (26) at the time. Personal resiliency isn‘t the same as that of a 19 year old.

Other‘s I knew were injured for misc. things. The majority in either hand to hand training or in the field (as Redeye mentioned).

I don‘t think you need to worry about being "taken out dead." Nice to see you‘re spunky. Just go in strong and be focused. You‘ll be fine.


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## LilMissChicky (21 Dec 2003)

Just caught a typo mistake ehehehe I meant extensive not expensive! lol
What about the broken arm stuff? How the heck can someone gets this type of injuries if everyone is doing what they were told in the first place?
The shoulder thing, I would think it‘d be from the force of impact from the rifle... Am I right?

It‘s very easy to do!
Just one miss step can do it!
You‘ll be taught how to move and watch out at the same time while it will become second nature to you pretty quick!

As to the shoulder thing we don‘t have the good old F.N. any more   
The C7 is a puppy,no prob‘s with recoil.
But with weapon‘s beware when firing the C6 and C9 as burn‘s to the hand‘s for the untrained are easy to get and part of the learning process.   


 Also if you do get hurt ask for and "KEEP ALL DOCUMENTATION" of your injury as it may come back on you in the future if you don‘t!
Also this goes for the whole time you are in the Force‘s!

Hope this help‘s.
Good Luck!


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## Enzo (21 Dec 2003)

Accidents happen. If people aren‘t paying attention, then someone could get hurt. You‘re playing with dangerous tools. It requires responsibility and maturity. Even experienced troops in the field have hurt themselves. We‘re living in a time when mistakes cost lives. Ask the 2 Yank pilots who killed 4 of ours in Afghanistan last year. The term for that is "friendly fire". Nothing friendly about it if you ask me, but no one has so I‘ll keep that to myself. Pay attention to the training you‘re provided. It‘s a guidline that should see you in good stead. But there are no guarantees. Accidents happen and some end up with injuries. In my case, an exploded disc. In others, broken limbs, strains, abrasions, etc... It‘s a laundry list, take your choice. The training is meant to provide you the tools to do your job, complete your mission and stay in one piece. Always remember, this is NOT a game. Some treat it as such. But if you are deployed, even as a supporting member in the rear. You may find yourself in a situation where people are attempting to harm you and you‘ll be expected to defend yourself, with honour.

Bear in mind, ole J. Lynch and her comrades in the US were not members of a Combat Arms unit. They were techs and an error was made. They came under fire and from there...

...it‘s left to history.

Bear in mind some perspective though Chicky. No one has any guarantees. One could live until 103 without so much as a cold, others, are in the wrong place at the wrong time and find themselves in dire straits. You don‘t have to be in the army for that, you could be hurting yourself as you jump out of a window at the sound of your lover‘s spouse returning home unexpectedly (broken ankle?).

Or, you could be that Priest in Hiroshima. This guy was just lucky. I forget the terminology (Explosives isn‘t my forte) but this priest was in Hiroshima when the bomb was detonated. He was almost directly underneath. One minute he was in a building doing whatever. Then a flash. A when he came to his sense, he found himself laying in the middle of that nightmare, without so much as a scratch or a burn. 100,000 others couldn‘t say the same. I suppose he felt like testing that though as 7 days later he had made his way to Nagasaki (He‘s one of 18 people documented to have survived both blasts, go figure eh)

Horseshoes...


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## Bert (21 Dec 2003)

A friend of mine who went thru a July 2002 BMQ said to take care of your knees and feet while in Farnham (or the 5 day camp out) during the latter weeks of BMQ. Close to graduation and after the camp-out, the troop has to do a 15 km forced march and it will be difficult with injured knees and feet.  Don‘t do anything silly before the march is what he told me.


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## LilMissChicky (21 Dec 2003)

Thanks Spr.Earl for being such a good second voice ehehehe I was wondering where all that editing came from! lol
Well I‘m not one that ever had a horse shoe up you know where lol so I sure hope my training will pay off with the honour to graduate and be part of this awesome bunch!
I‘ve targeted over the last 2 years to strenghen my back, shoulders and arms with weights... My abs through various sit ups, crunches and push ups. And my legs through serious running... I‘ve also took great care of a healthy balanced nutrition along with a daily dose of multi vitamins so my immune system will be at its peak when I go. 
Sure pray to God that I did covered all bases so far to give 200% of little me-self during primary training and beyond!


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## mattoigta (21 Dec 2003)

Meaford‘s tank ruts are a force to be reckoned with.


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## LilMissChicky (21 Dec 2003)

Pte Scarlino... ????


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (21 Dec 2003)

Tank ruts are mini trenches in the ground where tanks and other armoured vehicles have driven.  The entire training area is covered in them.  There rip apart ankles and knee‘s.  You also have to be careful of unmarked wells.  A nice 6 foot drop isn‘t the most fun you could have while training.  Especially when you hit the jagged rocks at the bottom.  The ruts become 100 times the force to be reckoned with at night though.  Because the long grass covers them so you can‘t see them.  Dangerous bidness.

  :fifty:    :gunner:


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## Garry (21 Dec 2003)

Pain passes, chicks dig scars, and glory lasts forever.

Quit worrying.

Cheers-Garry


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## Etown (22 Dec 2003)

I guess I can add a bit of insight here, since I just finished BRT on the 15th of December. The number one cause of injury (at Esquimalt anyway) was stupidity. In the four platoons that were running while I was there, there were three guys that were recoursed due to injuries caused on the confidence course or in the field. The half dozen or so other injured people received their injuries while being idiots on the weekends or screwing around in the barracks. 

I broke my toe in a hotel room the weekend before our field exercise. No one to blame for that but me. In reality the physical training is not that hard, and if you listen to the staff you wont get hurt. No one got sent home for medical reasons, and no one was recoursed for shin splints. 

Still worried?


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## Pte.See (22 Dec 2003)

All I can say is, DON‘T FORGET TO CLEAN YOUR CANTEEN!! I got really sick during our BMQ because I forgot to. Do yourself a favour and clean everything THOROUGHLY before you put your lips on it!  :skull:


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## LilMissChicky (22 Dec 2003)

Pte See... I was warned that once I got the last bubble out of that canteen eheheh ... to never touch it ever again till graduation! lol

E-Town... I‘m going reg all the way ehehe... and no stupidity from me... no way, I want this too darn bad to ruin it up on myself. I‘ll do what I‘m told when I‘m told...

Garry... I wish the quit worrying part was so easy as you say... it been a long wait... a lot of hard work went into this, I just want it to pay off one day. I‘m no 17 years old chicky


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## monolith (22 Dec 2003)

etown you trying to be superman was hilarious. Also, your back probably get a little stiff sore or messed. They put me on horse tranquilizers there for the last 4 weeks, as well as another one of my roommates.


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## Pte. Bloggins (23 Dec 2003)

As I‘ve mentioned on another board and cannot emphasize more, make sure your boots fit! The most infuries I saw on my basic was blisters, and the results of blisters. Trust me, it can start with a blister and end in blood poisoning, fractures and being recoursed. Therefore, make sure your boots fit, wear those 2 pairs of socks and, if you get blisters, get them treated early and your feet‘ll thank you in the long run.


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## GhostRecce (23 Dec 2003)

you can die


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## LilMissChicky (23 Dec 2003)

GhostRecce... We all will... and for me it‘ll be with honour!   

Pte Bloggins... Thanks for the heads up


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## Thompson_JM (23 Dec 2003)

once again.. Emphisising properly fitted boots.. learned that the hard way.

other then that, just always try to be aware.. watch out for tree branches at night.. those really suck when you get it in the face. and at night, you dont go tearing across an area like maniac..

move with a sense of urgency while maintaining an awareness of the enivroment you occupy....

meh. you‘ll probabbly do fine.


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## LilMissChicky (24 Dec 2003)

Cpl Thompson... Thanks and will do


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## Thompson_JM (27 Dec 2003)

anytime. Good Luck!


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## The_Falcon (29 Dec 2003)

Knees are a big one, specially if you go infantry. Section attacks are murder on them, also going to one knee every two seconds while on a patol does not help them.  Wrecked one knee at the start of QL2 when we were learning the types of movement (kitten crawl, monkey walk [thats what did me in]). My section 2ic and I decided to keep it quite, so I wouldn‘t be RTUed (yes I know probably the stupidest thing I have done. Then I fryed the other knee cause I was overcompincating with it. (Playing rugby hasn‘t helped either though). My advice wear kneepads (good ones that can take a lot of punishment, and are fairly well padded. I have used many and the best ones I have found are the Tactical style ones for military/swat type use) if your instructors allow it (they should, hopefully), and if you don‘t have strong knees you should wrap them to.


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## Enzo (1 Jan 2004)

Falcon - had to laugh. Nice to know I‘m not the only dumbass who carried on with an injury with the fear of a recourse, only to end up in a dire situation. Go figure, youth + arrogance = hospital time.


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## Redeye (1 Jan 2004)

Enzo - I‘m one of those too.  And because I didn‘t read what I signed I got RTU as a training failure rather than a medical - still got recoursed, but nearly didn‘t because I was stupid.  And I still have ankle and achilles tendon problems because I was too stupid to know when to say when.


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## The_Falcon (2 Jan 2004)

Yeah, very bad move on my part, had to have physio-therapy, paid for out of my pocket because of it. Also limits any possibility of going regs for infantry (something I had thought about from time to time). Although I have worked on getting it stronger, I don‘t play rugby any more, and I am in Coy HQ for this training year. But I have started a trend (yeah right) more and more people in my unit are wearing kneepads, those who make/made fun of me for wearing mine, aren‘t laughing at the end of an ex.


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## Enzo (3 Jan 2004)

That‘s what keeps me up at night. I‘m currently fine. No health problems or problems with the injury I had. I do everything I did before. Ok, after a semester of school, I‘m not as hard as I was when I was working on the fish farms as a diver this past summer (****ed couch). But I was Reg Force Infantry when I was injured and I opted to leave at the time in order to heal and personal reasons. Yet I‘m not allowed to return?? I‘ve been told that I apparently can‘t even be hired as a clerk in the reserves (not my goal, just using that as a point) WTF eh. At this point, I‘d join a reserve support coy just to get back in the system (Infantry‘s where my heart lies).


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## Meridian (3 Jan 2004)

Sounds like me.. except that I didnt have the arrogance.

My captain threatened me with recommending release if I went to the MIR for my back... but after pushing through it for a week, I was not performing to the level I wanted, nor was my back getting any better.  He threw a fit when the doctor took me off course.  Literally a fit. He made me go back and have them change the terminology on the chit because he didn‘t like it.

Needless to say, sitting around for 2 months of PAT plus dealing with crappy physio arrangements, boredom, and financial difficulties pushed me towards VR. Plus under ROTP, to go from RMC to Civvy U is near impossible, unless you start out that way. I know several people who got what they wanted otu of the military faster than those who went the other way by releasing and reapplying.


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## Enzo (3 Jan 2004)

Meridian - Arrogance, can‘t help it, I like being me   

Seriously, our situations are alike, but I was more fortunate for the first portion. My nco‘s and my Capt. covered for me for 5 weeks (the length of time I had the injury). They did all that they could to help me through. By the end, I could hardly walk. Eg. for a 7km walk back from the field, I took 2 Tylenol 3‘s and another 2 30mins later. Didn‘t know which was worse, the pain or almost passing out from the meds. I was about 3 weeks from the end and everyone wanted me to get through, but it wasn‘t meant to be. After surgery, I was in a situation identical to yours. PAT sucked, what physio and prisoners had more freedom.

I wrestle with the "should I have stayed in and waited it out?" Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, I thought, get out, heal and then go back. My warrant‘s the one who suggested it, advising that I attend college, join an infantry reserve unit and eventually return as an officer. Sounded fine at the time. Just didn‘t ever think it would go this way. Glass is half full, had fun in the past few years, all adds to the character building I suppose.

Were you able to return to the CF? Did you try? Curious.


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## Enzo (3 Jan 2004)

Meridian - Arrogance, can‘t help it, I like being me   

Seriously, our situations are alike, but I was more fortunate for the first portion. My nco‘s and my Capt. covered for me for 5 weeks (the length of time I had the injury). They did all that they could to help me through. By the end, I could hardly walk. Eg. for a 7km walk back from the field, I took 2 Tylenol 3‘s and another 2 30mins later. Didn‘t know which was worse, the pain or almost passing out from the meds. I was about 3 weeks from the end and everyone wanted me to get through, but it wasn‘t meant to be. After surgery, I was in a situation identical to yours. PAT sucked, what physio and prisoners had more freedom.

I wrestle with the "should I have stayed in and waited it out?" Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, I thought, get out, heal and then go back. My warrant‘s the one who suggested it, advising that I attend college, join an infantry reserve unit and eventually return as an officer. Sounded fine at the time. Just didn‘t ever think it would go this way. Glass is half full, had fun in the past few years, all adds to the character building I suppose.

Were you able to return to the CF? Did you try? Curious.


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## Enzo (3 Jan 2004)

Meridian - Arrogance, can‘t help it, I like being me   

Seriously, our situations are alike, but I was more fortunate for the first portion. My nco‘s and my Capt. covered for me for 5 weeks (the length of time I had the injury). They did all that they could to help me through. By the end, I could hardly walk. Eg. for a 7km walk back from the field, I took 2 Tylenol 3‘s and another 2 30mins later. Didn‘t know which was worse, the pain or almost passing out from the meds. I was about 3 weeks from the end and everyone wanted me to get through, but it wasn‘t meant to be. After surgery, I was in a situation identical to yours. PAT sucked, what physio and prisoners had more freedom.

I wrestle with the "should I have stayed in and waited it out?" Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, I thought, get out, heal and then go back. My warrant‘s the one who suggested it, advising that I attend college, join an infantry reserve unit and eventually return as an officer. Sounded fine at the time. Just didn‘t ever think it would go this way. Glass is half full, had fun in the past few years, all adds to the character building I suppose.

Were you able to return to the CF? Did you try? Curious.


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## Enzo (3 Jan 2004)

Meridian - Arrogance, can‘t help it, I like being me   

Seriously, our situations are alike, but I was more fortunate for the first portion. My nco‘s and my Capt. covered for me for 5 weeks (the length of time I had the injury). They did all that they could to help me through. By the end, I could hardly walk. Eg. for a 7km walk back from the field, I took 2 Tylenol 3‘s and another 2 30mins later. Didn‘t know which was worse, the pain or almost passing out from the meds. I was about 3 weeks from the end and everyone wanted me to get through, but it wasn‘t meant to be. After surgery, I was in a situation identical to yours. PAT sucked, what physio and prisoners had more freedom.

I wrestle with the "should I have stayed in and waited it out?" Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, I thought, get out, heal and then go back. My warrant‘s the one who suggested it, advising that I attend college, join an infantry reserve unit and eventually return as an officer. Sounded fine at the time. Just didn‘t ever think it would go this way. Glass is half full, had fun in the past few years, all adds to the character building I suppose.

Were you able to return to the CF? Did you try? Curious.


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## Meridian (4 Jan 2004)

oy.. talk about flooding ;-)


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## Meridian (4 Jan 2004)

I‘m assessing my options to return.. I still need to work on my back a bit, but it is also a result of the necessity to properly train/get into better shape at an appropriate pace.. so Im going to work n that as well. I can meet all the standards, passably. But that is not nearly what I should be at, especially for combat arms.

You lead from the front, IMHO, not from the Iltis


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## Enzo (5 Jan 2004)

Sorry, I don‘t know exactly what happened there. I just noticed that now?? My bad.

I‘m interested to know if the CFRC is open to your return? Have you discussed anything with them? Do you know if it is an option? I ask because I thought the same thing and was surprised when I was refused.


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## Meridian (5 Jan 2004)

I havent done anything formal yet. We‘ll see.

I don‘t see how they could not, mostly because I voluntarily released, and my medical categories were switched back to the norm specifically by my doctor to ensure I could come back.


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## Roger (5 Jan 2004)

Most of the injuries are the feet, ankles and legs. Torn or pulled muscles or torn or pulled ligaments. All of the injuries are from walking on uneven ground at night or from small obstacles from walking at night or day that you did not see.

It can also be from just carrying your buddy using the fireman carry and you pull a calf muscle, always make sure you warm up before any activity.

Also good training would be to carry 20 kilos in a backpack and go on a 5 kilometre walk every day, make sure you walk as fast as you can because marches in the military are at a quick pace and most people have not developed the muscles for this and are not prepared.

Also make sure your boots fit you, don't let any one rush you at stores because this is very important, there a lot of confusion on sizes, the Combat boots are sized in English not USA sizes, most running shoes have both sizes written on the tong, so if you are a 9 US you probably are an 8 or 8 Â½ in combat boots, the socks are also in sock sizes not boot size. Also having good kneepads like the other fellow suggested would be a good idea, Mountain Equipment co-op has some great ones, or a good skateboard set. Mountain Equipment co-op has tons of great equipment, I would also suggest getting the small tent pegs for your two-man tent and they have some great Gortex black gaiters that will keep you warm and dry.

If you get kneepads make sure they are black or green so you do not get flak.


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## Enzo (6 Jan 2004)

Meridian - I did that also. Go figure. Hope you have better luck than I am.


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## Sappo (6 Jan 2004)

sorry this is kinda off topic guys... but Trap...
maybe you can explain to me the kit and how they determine what you are allowed.

I‘m the kind of person... that I would get in, and the first chance I get blow a paycheque on a bunch of stuff to spiff up my kit and ruck.

Some for fashion and some for practical use of course...   

But just what are you allowed to supplement for your own purchased equip?

Are you allowed say, a second pair of combat boots... if you prefer another brand or style?

Or how about a non-regulation length bayonet *jokes*


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## Sappo (6 Jan 2004)

I guess I should stick to the vein of this convo as well.....  

So for injuries related to training, does anyone think I‘ll have much problem with my shoulder?


History goes that about... 4-5 years ago I have a dislocation from skateboaring. During the next 2-3 years after that I dislocated it probably 6-7 more times. To the point that the joint/socket was pretty loose and could be dislocated by moving my arm above my head the wrong way...

I had surgery to correct it early last year.. and its been great since. The surgeon said my shoulder recovered great and should be 110% now.

I am kind of hesitant to really strain it, and right now can only get to about 6 pushups on that shoulder... before I feel it strain. 

Now mind you thats not the muscle as far as I can tell, feels like the ligaments or joint itself just getting tired by then.

Anyone have any comments? maybe similar experiences.

By the time I get everything done and am called upon, it should be built up fine.

Just inquiring


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## The_Falcon (6 Jan 2004)

Sappo, in reference to your question about add on kit. I will keep this brief, and before people jump down my throat, according to DND/CF regulations, you can only use CF kit, and you can not modify it.  That being said the reality is kinda different.  I am assuming you are going on a basic course, in that case find out from your course staff what civy stuff you can and cannot use. They may not let you use anything, or they may give you some latitude (do not count on it it is a course, and uniformity is strived for). When you get to your home unit ask the senior NCO‘s, what you can use and what you can‘t. Most units particularly combat trades (in the reserves at least) tend to give thier troops some latitude. As long as it is Green/Black or Cadpat they are generally pretty good about it. My CSM is like a walking advertisement for Canadian Peacekeeper and PPCLI kitshop. So check first.


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## Roger (6 Jan 2004)

Sappo, the basic is not hard on you shoulders, you might have to be careful when you are in the defensive position digging but you will be ok, I am a older guy and have dislocated both shoulders and nothing the infantry does has bothered me. If you decide to go on a jump course though you could have problems and repelling does test my shoulders.

As far as kit goes, while on a course more so the basic courses, it is frowned upon to stand out, like different clothing, on your basic I doubt you will be allowed, but what is under the uniform out of sight is up to you. With all the new gear and clothing the life of a infanteer in the field has improved, but as a recruit you do not get any of the Gortex, except for the socks, make sure you get them, keep your feet warm and dry, but not great on a long march. I used to wear my wifeâ€™s panty hose to help keep my legs warm and dry in the winter.


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## OLD SCHOOL (6 Jan 2004)

I used to wear my wifeâ€™s panty hose to help keep my legs warm and dry in the winter. 


That‘s where it all starts!


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## Enzo (6 Jan 2004)

School, that explains so much.


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## Sappo (6 Jan 2004)

haha, nice replies guys (cough)

yea i kind of had the feeling about in basic etc, you want to go with the flow.
pretty much if you fade into the group you‘ll be fine   

i didn‘t mean anything drastic really, just the little things you might say ‘jeez they really screwed up with this design‘

so you buy a different design.

and yea, jump training etc would be something i‘d definatly be interested in... have to see how the shoulders doing when I come to that


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