# How much do you pay for mess dues?



## Jarnhamar (1 Sep 2010)

I'm looking for feedback from both the reg force and reserves.

I'm wondering what the Junior Ranks mess at your respective regiments charge per month or year (for reg force) and for the training year (for reservists).

I would also be interested in hearing what the SNCO/Officers mess charge for comparison.


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## aesop081 (1 Sep 2010)

My mess dues doubled when i went from the JRC to the WO & Sgts mess. I'm currently paying a little over $20 a month.


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## jollyjacktar (1 Sep 2010)

$12/month I believe.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (1 Sep 2010)

$30/month currently but in the last year belonged to two other wardrooms which were $28 and $35.


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## kratz (1 Sep 2010)

In the past seven years I have seen MS&B messes charging between $4 per month up to $12 per month depending where you are.


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## SupersonicMax (1 Sep 2010)

22$ a month, O' Mess in Bagtown.


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## Jarnhamar (1 Sep 2010)

While it's a reserve mess I thought out $35 a year was high. I've been looking to increase profit and raising the mess dues was one way. Maybe $45 or $50 for the training year. (Sept to May).    I know lots of regular force members pay mess dues and don't even step foot inside the mess.

Maybe raise price of beer from $2.50 a beer to $3 or something could work too.


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## cn (1 Sep 2010)

What exactly do these mess dues get you?  And what exactly goes on in said mess?


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## Ex-Dragoon (1 Sep 2010)

paying 10 onboard


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## Shamrock (1 Sep 2010)

cn said:
			
		

> And what exactly goes on in said mess?



Ecretsay uffstay.


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## aesop081 (1 Sep 2010)

cn said:
			
		

> What exactly do these mess dues get you?  And what exactly goes on in said mess?



The answer to both is different for each mess.


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## Jarnhamar (2 Sep 2010)

Well I've stood infront of the CO and RSM a few times as PMC but I'm sure that's not what you meant..

We'll generally have a mess function every month. Back to work BBQ. Halloween party. Rememberence day. Christmas Dinner.  New Year party. Apollo Diomedes party AKA Valintines day. St Patricks day. etc..

Mess is open every Tuesday and Thursday which members have access too.  Usually a free round and free pizza after Ex's. Members can request the bar and mess open for a  movie night on the big screen,  Xbox 360 night.


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## dogger1936 (2 Sep 2010)

20 something bucks for one mess and 60 dollars a year for another private mess


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## cn (2 Sep 2010)

I'm aware there are separate messes for Officers, NCOs and NCMs but are they messes for the base? For each unit?


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## a_majoor (2 Sep 2010)

Every mess is different, but some are far worse than others.

Here in Meaford I will be paying $40 for two months. In these two months I have had exactly 3 opportunities to actually go given the insane workload of RST for the leadership (most nights I just want to go to bed after finishing vetting files and paperwork about 2000hr or later). This mess manager also gave me a "f*** you" answer when I inquired about them getting the National Post (when I arrived, I had the expectation I would be able to go in every so often and read it...), so the mess dies are certainly _not_ going to support me as a "member".

The OR's have it even worse; my MCpl section commanders pay $20 for two months and are locked out of a room which had all the expensive sound system/42" plasma tv/comfortable couches paid for by their mess dues (the sign on the door says something to the effect of "reserved for permanent staff only"). Candidates never get into the mess at all but must still pay.

Of course I must now contend with an equally responsive mess in London trying to get the payment/double payment of dues sorted out.

Your experience may be different (and hopefully better)


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## George Wallace (2 Sep 2010)

Gotta love those Messes.   On OP CADENCE we got to live in a couple of classrooms in Denison Armouries after being moved out of our hotels.  We were told that the Junior ranks would be left open for us to use after hours.  Great!  Their big screen TV had been broken for months.  Their Overhead Projector was missing (away supposedly for repairs for several months).  There were no darts for the Dart Boards.  No balls for the Pool Tables or Fussball game.  AND THERE WAS NO FRACKIN BAR TENDER to open the bar.  Yet another demerit point for LFCA HQ.    


Please deposit your negative milnet.ca points on the profile of Commander LFCA.  Although it is not really his fault that he has a JUNIOR RANKS MESS COMMITTE that is totally INCOMPETANT, he is guilty of having allowed it to still function as if normal.


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## a_majoor (2 Sep 2010)

Frankly, the vast majority of messes in the places I been over the last decade (London, Gagetown, Kingston, Petawawa, St Jean etc.) are more like ghost towns than real establishments. Even in Meaford, despite the tens of thousands of dollars they get each summer, still does not find it worthwhile to hire two bartenders, rather a small note on the bar suggests you call a number if you want a bartender to come sell you a drink.

Makes you wonder if the reasons for having a mess at all have faded into history as this generation of soldiers head off to their "real lives" after the end of the workday or parade night.


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## Franko (3 Sep 2010)

I pay $16/ month for one and $60/ year to another. Then of course there are the manditory mess dinners and other functions one must attend.

A way to drum up support for your mess is to get all the MCpls of your unit together and brainstorm the problem. 

One solution is to have a mandatory half hour at the mess after your parade night.

We had it when I was in the Reserves eons ago and it worked. If anything it got the Esprit de Corps up a wee bit. No one forced anyone to drink alcohol. 

You're there for 3 - 4 hours on a parade night...what's another half hour to have some laughs and play some pool?

Regards


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## Zoomie (3 Sep 2010)

Approx $30/month - TGIF with free food every friday.  Major party every quarter.  Cheapest beer that the law allows.  Brand new $40,000 entertainment system. New BBQ patio built by the contractor.  Mess dinner every month or two.

MJ has one of the most robust Mess life in the CF - Portage is not too far behind.  Something to do with an ample number of Junior Officers hanging around on friday night...


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## a_majoor (3 Sep 2010)

I really am in the wrong trade/unit/base.

The last mess meeting the committee didn't even put out a pot of coffee.....


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## Pusser (3 Sep 2010)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The OR's have it even worse; my MCpl section commanders pay $20 for two months and are locked out of a room which had all the expensive sound system/42" plasma tv/comfortable couches paid for by their mess dues (the sign on the door says something to the effect of "reserved for permanent staff only"). Candidates never get into the mess at all but must still pay.



That is simply wrong and a clear violation of policy.  No CO who calls himself a leader should allow this to happen.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Sep 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> That is simply wrong and a clear violation of policy.  No CO who calls himself a leader should allow this to happen.



We're talking Meaford here : The whole Mess institution there has been out of control from the day they opened the doors.


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## toughenough (3 Sep 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> One solution is to have a mandatory half hour at the mess after your parade night... If anything it got the Esprit de Corps up a wee bit. No one forced anyone to drink alcohol.



Our unit has this. Our mess currently has more funds then it can spend. You can only buy so many video games. And the folks with the facilities contract won't allow us to pay for improvements to the mess itself.

As for not having reasonable attendance after a parade night, this is a leadership thing. It's not uncommon for one of our Sr JRs (is that an oxymoron?) to be standing by the exit and questioning every troop why he is heading towards the exit rather than the mess. Our CSM has also marched us to and dismissed us in front of the mess on a semi-regular basis (3 or 4 times per training year) for the 5 years I've been in.

If your unit has bad attendance, it's your unit's fault. You can affect the change.


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## Neill McKay (3 Sep 2010)

cn said:
			
		

> What exactly do these mess dues get you?  And what exactly goes on in said mess?



A mess is much like a traditional club, of the type not often seen in civilian life anymore.  There's usually a place to relax (something like a living room), a bar, often games (pool, darts, video games), often a dining hall.  The extent of the facility depends a lot on where it is.  In an armoury it's not much different from a pub in most ways.  On a base it might include the main dining room and/or quarters for that rank group.

Membership (which is generally compulsory) gets you the use of the facilities and the right to attend functions (which others have described in this thread).  Drinks tend to be cheap, and for certain occasions free.  Sometimes there is free food as well, e.g. finger foods during a sports event.  Some messes will have very impressive a formal dinner (a "mess dinner") from time to time.



			
				cn said:
			
		

> I'm aware there are separate messes for Officers, NCOs and NCMs but are they messes for the base? For each unit?



In my experience most bases will have one mess for each rank group (officers, warrant officers and sergeants, and junior ranks).  In some cases individual units may have their own messes.  For example, at CFB Gagetown there is an officers' mess for all officers, and the RCR Battalion on the base has its own officers' mess as well.  I think single-unit/regimental messes were more common in the past.

In armouries with multiple units I believe it's customary to have a single mess in each rank group for all of the units.

In some cases different rank groups share a mess, e.g. I know of one armoury that has one mess for officers, warrant officers, and sergeants and another one for junior ranks.  CFB Greenwood has one mess for everyone but each rank group has its own spaces in the building.  The dining hall and some facilities are shared.


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## Danjanou (3 Sep 2010)

I thought my info was dated but appears some things have not changed.  I left Gagetown after a 4 month call out to the School of Cool in 1988 where I was charged $15.00 a month for the CTC WO & Sgts Mess which was open every day and had numerous functions, free munchies etc. and a snack pit, TV room, main bar etc. There was also a welcome door policy to the other two WO & Sgts Mess on base for base staff and other lodger units. I had a receipt to claim mess dues against those of my parent unit base as a credit for the time I was in NB.

I  arrived in Toronto that fall  and transferred to the Toronto Scottish at FYA and was told dues were $25.00 a month 10 months of the year ( summers off) for a one room mess that in theory was supposed to be open two nights a week,  Tuesday Parades  and Thursday admin. It has less than a dozen members  and an archaic dress code that stated if you were not in uniform of the day on admin night because maybe you came straight from work, you could not enter the mess unless in jacket and tie?  :

Most times the mess was never open on Thursday and frequently not on Tuesday as the then bartender often decided not to come in. IIRC I ended up ringing the bell for my promotion to MWO in the RRC Mess as mine was closed. I bought another round the next time ours was open of course.

There were at the time 1 JRs mess for the five units in FYA, but five each Officers Messes & WO & Sgts Messes naturally and 4 all ranks band messes. Any suggestion on combining the high priced help into a single mess  for Officers and another for WO  & Sgts like the troopies was of course met with cries for public crucifixion on the drill hall floor. Such was my intro to the oh so social aspect of the Militia in Upper Canada. 

By the time I left in 1994, I was Vice PMC and the place had a manager/steward who at least showed up twice a week and even on some weekend functions.

Legion Branch I just transferredf to wants a whopping $40.00 a year and has a honking great patio. ;D


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## cn (7 Sep 2010)

Part of my in-clearing today was to check in to the JR-Ranks mess, so I got to see first hand what they are like (in Borden at least).  Exactly what I expected from the above posts, actually more than what I expected.


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## Nfld Sapper (7 Sep 2010)

Paid $23 for the fol time period 15 Jul till 10 Sep at the WO and Sgt's mess Gagetown.....


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## aesop081 (7 Sep 2010)

The WO & Sgts mess here sucks....

The mess has money but because the dues can no longer be used to support the bar , the bar is going under. In response, the bar hours were cut , further reducing oportunities to make money. Bar prices are just about the same as in town and selection more limited.

The ascociate memers act like they own the place. 5 of us where standing in line one night at the bar and one of them decided to stand at the bar, 3 feet away from our line and says "line is over here". When we told him to pound salt, he just went around the corner to the other side of the bar and ended up served before us. On a rare night where i went, me and some other folks from the sqn sat at one table only to have some 70 year old army wife ***** at us about sitting at "their table"........we were all in uniform !! Theres is an RCAF association club close to the base but they dont want to go there...thats where all the retired officiers hang out.......

The TGIF menu sucks. Its usualy something like lasagna and garlic bread or beef on a bun. Either way, its comes from the mess hall kitchen downstairs. Its bad enough i have to pay $3 for each TGIF, let alone that its just mess hall food. Maybe if the menu wasnt designed for senior citizens, serving members would go and stay longer than food an one drink like the retired folks do.

Our mess doesnt even have a military feel to it. A few pictures of airplanes long retired and thats about it. Its like a realy old legion hall, without all the memorabilia in it.

We are supposed to get a new building with all 3 messes in it. Yet again, 3 seperate messes only. No common room like the one in Greenwood. We now have crews composed of personel belonging to all 3 messes and have no common place off base to get together for a drink, so everyone heads off base.

What do i get for my mess dues ? Coffee and sticky buns every 1st and 3rd Wednesday and the accompanying speech about not supporting the mess.


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## Haggis (8 Sep 2010)

Reserve Mess life in Ontario has just taken another kick in the junk from the McGuinty government.

Most Reserve JRs messes are made up of members in thier late teens and early 20's.  Effective 01 August 2010, any driver in Ontario who is under 22 years of age has to maintain a zero blood alcohol content.  Therefore, members under 22 who would previously stick around for one or two drinks after training/exercises are now going to be leaving right away.  This law was aimed at reducing impaired driving among city kids with reliable access to public transportation as an alternative to driving after a drink.  That's admirable.  But in true McGuinty style, he has once again ignored the effects of his actions on rural Ontario.  In small town Ontario this law further isolates the farm kid/Army Reservist who wants to share in sensible and mature esprit de corps with his fellow *Canadian soldiers*.

So, how well attended will your unit's Christmas dinner be this year?


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## George Wallace (8 Sep 2010)

Haggis

Your post and then the Oromocto Legion post seem to indicate a drastic change to the way Messes and Institutes may be run in the near future.


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## a_majoor (8 Sep 2010)

toughenough said:
			
		

> As for not having reasonable attendance after a parade night, this is a leadership thing. It's not uncommon for one of our Sr JRs (is that an oxymoron?) to be standing by the exit and questioning every troop why he is heading towards the exit rather than the mess. Our CSM has also marched us to and dismissed us in front of the mess on a semi-regular basis (3 or 4 times per training year) for the 5 years I've been in.



If you have to coerce your people to go to the mess with real or implied punishments for not going (and what implications would a new Pte. draw from being questioned by a senior member or having the CSM bring you right to the door?) then maybe there are other issues.

Try a little experiment. Don't have someone standing by the door for a 2 month period and see how many people chose to come on their own. If the attendance drops then that should tell you about the _real_ level of support for the mess.


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## Neill McKay (8 Sep 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> the dues can no longer be used to support the bar



What does that mean -- just that the dues can't subsidize the cost of drinks, or is there more to it?  (Are you required to make enough money from drinks to pay the bartender, e.g.?)


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## dapaterson (8 Sep 2010)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> What does that mean -- just that the dues can't subsidize the cost of drinks, or is there more to it?  (Are you required to make enough money from drinks to pay the bartender, e.g.?)



Bars are supposed to be self-supporting - bar sales should cover the cost of goods sold plus bartender wages.

That's been on the books for years, just casually ignored in many places.


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## Pusser (8 Sep 2010)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Reserve Mess life in Ontario has just taken another kick in the junk from the McGuinty government.
> 
> Most Reserve JRs messes are made up of members in thier late teens and early 20's.  Effective 01 August 2010, any driver in Ontario who is under 22 years of age has to maintain a zero blood alcohol content.  Therefore, members under 22 who would previously stick around for one or two drinks after training/exercises are now going to be leaving right away.  This law was aimed at reducing impaired driving among city kids with reliable access to public transportation as an alternative to driving after a drink.  That's admirable.  But in true McGuinty style, he has once again ignored the effects of his actions on rural Ontario.  In small town Ontario this law further isolates the farm kid/Army Reservist who wants to share in sensible and mature esprit de corps with his fellow *Canadian soldiers*.
> 
> So, how well attended will your unit's Christmas dinner be this year?



Two things to consider here:  

1) Why do you have to drink alcohol to socialize with your colleagues?  And I am no teetotaller.  I always enjoy a good libation - or four.

2) Get imaginitive with transportation.  If there is no public transit, try carpooling witha designtated driver.  As for the Christmas party, do what many messes have been doing for years - give out taxi chits or rent a van and pay for a driver to drive folks home.  There are solutions to this problem.  It just takes the will (and OK, the money) to implement them.


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## Neill McKay (8 Sep 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Bars are supposed to be self-supporting - bar sales should cover the cost of goods sold plus bartender wages.
> 
> That's been on the books for years, just casually ignored in many places.



I see.  I can understand that there might be a reluctance to allow the sale of alcohol below its own purchase cost, but I'm surprised that the bartender's wages have to figure into it.  I wonder if any messes have been able to get around this by employing the bartender to do other things (or employing some other person such as the mess manager to tend the bar as a secondary function).  I know that, in some messes, a member is the "duty bartender".


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## Pusser (8 Sep 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The WO & Sgts mess here sucks....
> 
> The mess has money but because the dues can no longer be used to support the bar , the bar is going under. In response, the bar hours were cut , further reducing oportunities to make money. Bar prices are just about the same as in town and selection more limited.
> 
> ...



I find the best solution to these problems is to get involved.  Joint the Entertainment Committee and volunteer to plan an event.  As for the Associates, make it clear to them that they are welcome to attend, but that it is your mess and the current regular membership will decide how things go.  Having said that, for many messes, it is the Associates that are keeping them afloat.  Therefore, it is necessary to proceed with caution


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## Pusser (8 Sep 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Bars are supposed to be self-supporting - bar sales should cover the cost of goods sold plus bartender wages.
> 
> That's been on the books for years, just casually ignored in many places.



That's not quite true.  All the directives on the subject, were aimed at subsidized alcohol (i.e. we're not supposed to sell booze at less than cost).  There is nothing wrong with using other sources of revenue (e.g. mess dues) to pay mess staff.  Bartenders are mess staff and need not be restricted to tending bar.  They can do other things as well.


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## dapaterson (8 Sep 2010)

Yes, it isn't black and white, but writ large the bar should provide sufficient revenue to cover the cost of bar operations, which includes the cost of bar staff when operating the bar.

Reg F messes have a bit more flex (and a lot more public support) than Reserve messes.


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## Haggis (8 Sep 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> 1) Why do you have to drink alcohol to socialize with your colleagues?



You don't.  My point was that soldiers under 22 who could previously do so are now prohibited.  They still have to drive home on training nights. and no Mess Committee is going to be able to afford a shuttle bus or taxi chits every training night. 



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> 2) It just takes the will (and OK, the money) to implement them.



Mess revenues are predicted to decrease in the face of this legislation making the provision of taxi chits and the like even more burdensome.  There are also prhibitions under Ontario law against doing things that wil encourage the over consumption of alcohol


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## stealthylizard (8 Sep 2010)

I've set foot once in the Junior Ranks Mess in Edmonton, and that was for our malaria briefings before deploying.


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## a_majoor (9 Sep 2010)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Reserve Mess life in Ontario has just taken another kick in the junk from the McGuinty government.
> 
> Most Reserve JRs messes are made up of members in thier late teens and early 20's.  Effective 01 August 2010, any driver in Ontario who is under 22 years of age has to maintain a zero blood alcohol content.  Therefore, members under 22 who would previously stick around for one or two drinks after training/exercises are now going to be leaving right away.  This law was aimed at reducing impaired driving among city kids with reliable access to public transportation as an alternative to driving after a drink.  That's admirable.  But in true McGuinty style, he has once again ignored the effects of his actions on rural Ontario.  In small town Ontario this law further isolates the farm kid/Army Reservist who wants to share in sensible and mature esprit de corps with his fellow *Canadian soldiers*.
> 
> So, how well attended will your unit's Christmas dinner be this year?



I would suspect the McGuinty government gave 0 thought to the military mess system when debating or writing this law; even without any pro or anti military bias, the numbers of military voters and their distribution across multiple rideings makes us effectively invisible. The numbers are so small I think in many rideings the military presence would not even show up as a statistical blip. being subsumed in the margin of error factor (+/- 3 to 4 % in most polls).

Responsible people will ensure that there are DD's, or alternative transport is laid on for mess functions that are equivalent to parades.


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## Pusser (9 Sep 2010)

Haggis said:
			
		

> You don't.  My point was that soldiers under 22 who could previously do so are now prohibited.  They still have to drive home on training nights. and no Mess Committee is going to be able to afford a shuttle bus or taxi chits every training night.
> 
> Mess revenues are predicted to decrease in the face of this legislation making the provision of taxi chits and the like even more burdensome.  There are also prhibitions under Ontario law against doing things that wil encourage the over consumption of alcohol



What is preventing the junior folks from going to the mess, having a non-alcoholic drink and then driving home?  They can still go to the mess.  They can still socialize.   The fact that they cannot have any alcohol in their system when driving is a red-herring.


Why will mess revenues decrease?  If people still go to the mess, there will still be revenue.  Only if messes don't do anything, will revenues decrease.  Frankly, alternative methods to get home, combined with more moderate consumption overall, is a good thing for everyone.  I remember the days when we thought you weren't a "real" man unless you drank until you could no  longer stand (or, in the case of some circles, until you flooded yourself).  They weren't pretty.


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## Haggis (9 Sep 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> What is preventing the junior folks from going to the mess, having a non-alcoholic drink and then driving home?  They can still go to the mess.  They can still socialize.   The fact that they cannot have any alcohol in their system when driving is a red-herring.



Clearly you didn't read my post.  They can still attend.  They can still have a non-alcoholic drink.  However they may choose not to.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> Why will mess revenues decrease?


  I said "are predicted to decrease".  I could be wrong.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> Frankly, alternative methods to get home, combined with more moderate consumption overall, is a good thing for everyone.



Agreed, in the great scheme, it's a good thing.  However, a privilege has been rescinded by the McGuinty government as this legislation does not demand "more moderate consumption".  It demands absitnence.  Thucydides rightfully observed that the second order effects on units in rural communities with dispersed memberships make it highly possible that mess participation _could_ decline among the 19-22 year olds simply because they can no longer have a *single* drink.  



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> I remember the days when we thought you weren't a "real" man unless you drank until you could no longer stand (or, in the case of some circles, until you flooded yourself).



I remember them, too.  They are not completely gone, but the CF and society's view of alcohol consumption has made them far less frequent and visible these days.


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## Pusser (9 Sep 2010)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Clearly you didn't read my post.  They can still attend.  They can still have a non-alcoholic drink.  However they may choose not to.



I fully understood your post, I just think it is a separate issue.  If they choose not to attend for the sole reason that they can't have a beer, then there are other issues at hand (e.g. the mess is only fun if alcohol is involved?).  

Furthermore, what about all the members who are underage?  Do they not attend the mess either?  Notwithstanding the old "if you're old enough to fight for your country, then you're old enough to have a drink" argument, the fact is that CF policy and regulation dictates that Provincial liquor regulations* will be enforced in CF messes.  Do members in Ontario go to the mess and have a pop until they turn 19 and then stop because they have to drive themselves home?  

Interestingly enough, Nova Scotia liquor laws do allow *CF members  * to drink wine and beer *in their messes* (i.e nowhere else), regardless of age.  I don't know if other provinces have similar rules.


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Sep 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough, Nova Scotia liquor laws do allow *CF members  * to drink wine and beer *in their messes* (i.e nowhere else), regardless of age.  I don't know if other provinces have similar rules.



Do you have a reference for this or was it simply "accepted wisdom" at messes in Nova Scotia?

A review of the Liquor Control Act R.S.N.S. 1989, c. 260 and regulations made pursuant make no mention of such an exemption for the military, however there is some specific reference to the military in both the act and regulations.

In the act ( http://www.gov.ns.ca/legislature/legc/statutes/liquorc.htm ) there is a section which deals with a "special" license:


> Special license for service personnel
> 
> 61 (1) In this Section, "service personnel" means members of the armed forces of Canada, members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, members of the Coast Guard and members of the merchant marine of Canada.
> 
> ...



However in the act it clearly states that:


> Use of liquor by minor
> 
> 89 (1) Liquor shall not be sold, supplied or given to or procured for or by any person under the age of nineteen years, except for medicinal purposes only as provided for by this Act.
> 
> (2) Every person who knowingly sells or supplies liquor to any person under the age of nineteen years or knowingly gives liquor to or procures liquor for any person under the age of nineteen years, except for medicinal purposes only as provided by this Act, shall be liable to the penalties mentioned in Section 104.



In the regulations ( http://www.gov.ns.ca/just/regulations/regs/lclicens.htm ), no specific mention is made as to a "special" license as mentioned in the Section 61quoted above.  There is specific reference to the type of license that can be provided to CF (or RCMP or CCG) establishments.


> Classes of club license
> 
> 10 The following are the 2 classes of club licenses:
> (a) a class A club license;
> ...



And again in the regulations there is specific mention of sale to underage persons, without any exemption for military.


> Minors in Licensed Premises
> Duty to prevent liquor being sold to, served to or consumed by minors
> 
> 44 (1) A licensee must ensure that a person who is under 19 years old is not sold, supplied or given liquor in their licensed premises.
> ...



At one time there might have been more leeway since there was once a type of license called a "military license", however


> Transitional Provisions
> 
> Military licenses
> 
> 86 A military license held by a person on the day before these regulations come into force is deemed to be a class B club license and remains valid until its expiry date.



The only relaxation of the rules for the military (save for some ease in applying for a license) would be this in the regulations.


> Hours for selling and serving liquor
> 
> 53 (1) Except as authorized by the Minister under Section 54 for a temporary extension, the maximum hours during which a permanent licensee may be authorized to sell or dispense liquor are as set out in the following table:
> 
> club license – class B         no maximum hours


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## stealthylizard (9 Sep 2010)

Just to be the wet towel, you shouldn't be driving even after 1 beer.  You can still be charged for it even if you pass a breathalyzer.


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## tree hugger (8 Oct 2010)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> II know that, in some messes, a member is the "duty bartender".



Can a full and supposedly equal member of the mess be forced to act as bartender as a secondary duty?  My mess is going toward this option (a motion to switch to this was not raised or passed)....  They intend to have all A/SLt's and NCdt's take smart serve and take turns tending bar.  I remember this happening at an old unit I belonged to and I really didn't like it or think it was ok.  Besides the general dislike of the idea, I live close to 2 hrs from my unit so I would have to perform bartending duties until midnight then drive home - which would suck.

I figure that my mess dues are supposed to include the cost associated with paying a bartender.  The mess dues are lower for A/SLt's and NCdt's based on the majority are students.  As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather pay the higher fee and avoid being on the forced bartender list.

Has anyone else lived this?


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## TimBit (8 Oct 2010)

Unless the mess decides to reduce expenses by cutting a bartender or otherwise increase revenues. As for living far from the unit, I'm sure many will offer to take your turn as they understand driving home at 12:00 ain't fun. If no one else does, I'll fill in for ya.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Oct 2010)

At our mess I decided we would pay one of the mess committee members to act as a bartender after work. She switches it with a civilian bartender.


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## Captsapper@gmail.com (8 Oct 2010)

Paying someone to work as a bartender after work is interesting, I am sure there are many students out there after a parade night would not mind working a couple extra hours as a bartender to pick up some extra cash.


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Oct 2010)

Time was in our mess we were all Smart Serve and took turns bartending after parade. We volunteered and made the beer runs ourselves. In short, no civvy workers and no wages to be paid. We had over $10,000 in our account.

Along comes our very own Captain Queeg (google it) in the form of an overbearing nitwit parachuted onto us.

Two years later, we now have a civvy bartender, bar manager, beer once in a while and we're broke.


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## PuckChaser (9 Oct 2010)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> Just to be the wet towel, you shouldn't be driving even after 1 beer.  You can still be charged for it even if you pass a breathalyzer.



Charged with what? If you're below 0.05 in Ontario you're below even the warning/12 hour suspension. Unless of course you did something wrong and get a ticket.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> Time was in our mess we were all Smart Serve and took turns bartending after parade. We volunteered and made the beer runs ourselves. In short, no civvy workers and no wages to be paid. We had over $10,000 in our account.
> 
> Along comes our very own Captain Queeg (google it) in the form of an overbearing nitwit parachuted onto us.
> 
> Two years later, we now have a civvy bartender, bar manager, beer once in a while and we're broke.



My old reserve unit had the same thing, but NPF pays the wages of the bartender and covers the cost of Smart Serve. Qualified troops take turns bartending, and 100% of the funds gets cycled back into the bar fund.


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## George Wallace (9 Oct 2010)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> My old reserve unit had the same thing, but NPF pays the wages of the bartender and covers the cost of Smart Serve. Qualified troops take turns bartending, and 100% of the funds gets cycled back into the bar fund.



That is not how I understand NPF funds being handled.  NPF pays the wages of the bartender; yes.  Where do they get that money?  From cash sales in the Institute, be it the Bar, the Coffee Room/Canteen, etc.  100% of the money goes to NPF.  Then NPF uses a formula to determine how much they give back to the Unit, based on sales, number of pers in the Unit, etc.  NPF does not operate in the RED.  They do not return 100% back to the Unit.


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## Jarnhamar (9 Oct 2010)

Captsapper said:
			
		

> Paying someone to work as a bartender after work is interesting, I am sure there are many students out there after a parade night would not mind working a couple extra hours as a bartender to pick up some extra cash.



I'm not sure if it's a conflict of interest or not.
They only work after being formally dismissed and I make them change into civilian clothes. I figured acting as an official bartender and being paid for it also makes them more responsible for things like underage drinking.


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