# CF Uniforms



## Bobert (17 Aug 2005)

I wondering if any of you can answer these uniform questions:

1) Is it true that if you were in one element of the CF and then transfered to another, I read that you keep the same uniform? ie: Navy person leaves regular force and transfers to the army reserve or even reg. force, do they have the option of getting an army uniform or are they stuck with the Navy one?

2) I also read that when the Navy became part of the CF in 1968, NCMs no longer wore the Donald duck suits with the degrading looking sailor hats, instead they were the same respectable uniforms as Officers with different ranks?

3) For a while after 1968 did all three elements really have the same uniform?


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Aug 2005)

Bobert said:
			
		

> I wondering if any of you can answer these uniform questions:
> 
> 1) Is it true that if you were in one element of the CF and then transfered to another, I read that you keep the same uniform? ie: Navy person leaves regular force and transfers to the army reserve or even reg. force, do they have the option of getting an army uniform or are they stuck with the Navy one?
> 
> ...



"Degrading?"  My uncle wore one with pride.  *shrugs*  Any uniform is respectable if it represents a guy who just did an honest day's work.

Yes, all three services wore the same uniform after 1968.  Suggest you find old copies of SENTINEL in your local library and study the pictures.  Concentrate on ca 1968 to 1987.


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## Bobert (17 Aug 2005)

Sorry if you take any offence to that. I just don't think that in a society as ours Officers and NCM should wear different uniforms, dispite traditon. What about the first two question? Thanks any way.


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## paracowboy (17 Aug 2005)

Bobert said:
			
		

> 1) Is it true that if you were in one element of the CF and then transfered to another, I read that you keep the same uniform? ie: Navy person leaves regular force and transfers to the army reserve or even reg. force, do they have the option of getting an army uniform or are they stuck with the Navy one?


No. If you leave the Army to go to the  Navy, you trade uniforms. And vice versa.


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## Michael OLeary (17 Aug 2005)

Bobert said:
			
		

> 1) Is it true that if you were in one element of the CF and then transfered to another, I read that you keep the same uniform? ie: Navy person leaves regular force and transfers to the army reserve or even reg. force, do they have the option of getting an army uniform or are they stuck with the Navy one?



If you change trades, from an Army trade, like Infantry, to a Naval trade, like Bos'n, then you will be reissued new uniforms for the new element.

If you are in a purple trade (i.e., one that is employed by the Army, Navy and Air Force), like RMS Clerk, you will be issued a distinctive environmental uniform on joining and wear that uniform wherever you are posted.



			
				Bobert said:
			
		

> 2) I also read that when the Navy became part of the CF in 1968, NCMs no longer wore the Donald duck suits with the degrading looking sailor hats, instead they were the same respectable uniforms as Officers with different ranks?



While you may have that opinion of sailor's uniforms looking through a 2005 era fashion lens, it was not so for the sailors who wore square rig, or the ladies who fell for their charms when properly turned out for a run ashore.  The different working environments of the officers and sailors allowed different dress wto evovle and be worn. Also, If I am not mistaken, the square rig was made of cotton and denim, which possessed a natural (though limited) fire resistance, which the replacement CF Work Dress (in polyester) certainly did not.  - Any old sailors lurking that can explain?



			
				Bobert said:
			
		

> 3) For a while after 1968 did all three elements really have the same uniform?



Yes, as noted by Mike D. "CF Greens" were the same basic uniform for all three services, with differences orginally to be in cap badges only, though collar badges and corps/regimental buttons soon returned as did command badges for wear on the breast.


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Aug 2005)

Bobert said:
			
		

> Sorry if you take any offence to that. I just don't think that in a society as ours Officers and NCM should wear different uniforms, dispite traditon. What about the first two question? Thanks any way.



And there is a major problem with that as well..when I see US or RN personnel I know who is an officer and who is enlisted, when they see me I get saluted sometimes. Instant recognition can be crucial in certain situations.


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Aug 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> And there is a major problem with that as well..when I see US or RN personnel I know who is an officer and who is enlisted, when they see me I get saluted sometimes. Instant recognition can be crucial in certain situations.



As an NCM, I actually take pride in the fact my uniform differs from the Officers.  Bobert - I didn't take offence, just found your comment unncecessary.  The Navy League Cadets still wear a similar "costume" and I think they look sharp to be quite honest.  No less ridiculous than a pipe band in full Highland kit, if you don't know the history behind it.    Why do firemen wear red suspenders? 

Anyway, hope your questions have been answered, if not, fire away with others.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Aug 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Why do firemen wear red suspenders?



To keep their pants up?


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## paracowboy (17 Aug 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> To keep their pants up?


Ba dum bum!


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Aug 2005)

I do believe that you keep your DEU's from one element to another as you've paid for them.


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I do believe that you keep your DEU's from one element to another as you've paid for them.


I never had that option I had to hand my army ones in when I remustered back in '94.


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## paracowboy (17 Aug 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> I never had that option I had to hand my army ones in when I remustered back in '94.


CFL is correct. I buddy of mine gave me his DEUs when he became a bosun, last year. He had to then go and get fitted for Navy DEUs. (Do the Navy call them DEUs, or do they have their own name for them?)


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Aug 2005)

We call them DEUs, NO 1As...same as you folks. All I know was when I was being measured for them in Pet I had to give mine back before they would issue me with my naval ones.


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## paracowboy (17 Aug 2005)

maybe it's a Western thang? I've noticed a huge difference in the way CS, CSS, and Civilian Support pers treat the troops out here, as compared to Pet.


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Aug 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> maybe it's a Western thang? I've noticed a huge difference in the way CS, CSS, and Civilian Support pers treat the troops out here, as compared to Pet.



Possible and it was 11 years ago as well.


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## dgrayca (17 Aug 2005)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> If you are in a purple trade (i.e., one that is employed by the Army, Navy and Air Force), like RMS Clerk, you will be issued a distinctive environmental uniform on joining and wear that uniform wherever you are posted.



Not true in all cases....  If you are a purple trade attached to a green unit, you wear green despite what you wore before.


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## Michael OLeary (17 Aug 2005)

dgrayca said:
			
		

> Not true in all cases....  If you are a purple trade attached to a green unit, you wear green despite what you wore before.



Are you talking about DEU or environmental clothing (combats)?


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## pbi (20 Aug 2005)

dgrayca said:
			
		

> Not true in all cases....   If you are a purple trade attached to a green unit, you wear green despite what you wore before.



I second Mike. This statement is wrong. You wear the DEU you were assigned when you joined. Changing units or commands has no effect. Takr a look at a Regular battalion on parade in DEU: Admin Company will look like a rainbow. The only Army units I know that have everybody in one colour regardless are Reserve units.

Cheers.


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## Michael Dorosh (20 Aug 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> I second Mike. This statement is wrong. You wear the DEU you were assigned when you joined. Changing units or commands has no effect. Takr a look at a Regular battalion on parade in DEU: Admin Company will look like a rainbow. The only Army units I know that have everybody in one colour regardless are Reserve units.
> 
> Cheers.



Possibly by accident more than design; our Regular Force Fin Clerk for several years wore air force blue.  Our regimental support staff doesn't rebadge, either, so the training warrant officer and adjutant generally wear trousers on parade and the headdress of either PPCLI or RCR.


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## FastEddy (20 Aug 2005)

Bobert said:
			
		

> Sorry if you take any offence to that. I just don't think that in a society as ours Officers and NCM should wear different uniforms, dispite traditon. What about the first two question? Thanks any way.




"In a Society like ours" - "Despite Tradition", for once I'm at a loss for words (which I could post here).


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## Halifax Tar (20 Aug 2005)

"Sorry if you take any offence to that. I just don't think that in a society as ours Officers and NCM should wear different uniforms, dispite traditon. What about the first two question? Thanks any way."

As far as I am concerned PO2s and bellow should still be in square rig! PO1s - Officers should be the only navy people with a peak cap and double breasted tunic. 

That is what a sailor should look like, in mu humble opinion.


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## CF-22 Raptor (24 Aug 2005)

Does anybody know where I can find recent, 2005 dress and combat uniforms for all 3 elements? Including a fighter pilot's uniform? The ones I found looked old and out of date.


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## FastEddy (26 Aug 2005)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> Does anybody know where I can find recent, 2005 dress and combat uniforms for all 3 elements? Including a fighter pilot's uniform? The ones I found looked old and out of date.




Yes, are you starting a display or something .


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## reccecrewman (31 Aug 2005)

> Not true in all cases....  If you are a purple trade attached to a green unit, you wear green despite what you wore before.



This is true if you are an Air Force RMS clerk attached to say......... the RCR. Then you will wear Army CadPat uniforms to work monday to friday.  However, you will notice that their rank on their green uniforms is AF blue, their nameplates are also AF blue, and on remembrance day, that clerk will fall in for parade in their AF dress uniform.  AF clerks attached to my unit also wear their blue berets (not sure about other units)


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## Scoobie Newbie (31 Aug 2005)

They also wear blue combat undershirts were I work.


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## George Wallace (31 Aug 2005)

Just the guys; or the girls too?   ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (31 Aug 2005)

?? uh both.


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## George Wallace (31 Aug 2005)

Been to a baby shower lately?  ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (1 Sep 2005)

No
still ??


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## oftengone (2 Sep 2005)

When you change element you also change uniform.  But now most of all the CF members wear the combats uniforms.  That what you will see the most.  But yes when you change element you change uniform. 

In my opignon, the air force is the best and the have the cuties uniforms... ;D


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## dgrayca (3 Sep 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> I second Mike. This statement is wrong. You wear the DEU you were assigned when you joined. Changing units or commands has no effect. Takr a look at a Regular battalion on parade in DEU: Admin Company will look like a rainbow. The only Army units I know that have everybody in one colour regardless are Reserve units.
> 
> Cheers.



I wore Blue when I first joined.  I was in a purple trade at the time.  I then changed trades to another "purple trade" Logistics and was told since I was being attached to an army slate I would have to remuster to green.  I inquired at the time about staying blue but was told it was impossible.

And yes, I am talking about DEUs not combats.

Maybe the rules are different in the Regs than the Reserves.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2005)

dgrayca said:
			
		

> Maybe the rules are different in the Regs than the Reserves.



I guess you didn't read the post that you quoted from pbi....did you?


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## dgrayca (3 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I guess you didn't read the post that you quoted from pbi....did you?



I was agreeing that the rules may be different after relating my experience.  I guess you didn't understand my post fully...


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2005)

dgrayca said:
			
		

> I was agreeing that the rules may be different after relating my experience.   I guess you didn't understand my post fully...



Sorry

On the other hand, you really didn't relate your experience clearly.  You were CIC (Air) and this year you have joined the Land Force Reserves.  That makes quite a difference.  Of course you will have to change.


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## dgrayca (3 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry



no problem



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> On the other hand, you really didn't relate your experience clearly.   You were CIC (Air) and this year you have joined the Land Force Reserves.   That makes quite a difference.   Of course you will have to change.



Well you are very right there.  Try finding the process from how CIC transfers to PRes or even Reg for that matter.  Most of these transfers take 12 to 16 months since nobody seems to be used to processing them or know what to do with them.  Even now that the CIC is no longer a subcomponent but falls directly under LFCA.

However, I still think it really has to do with where you are transfering to.  I know of CIC (Air) who are transfering to the Med Coy and have been told that they can stay Blue.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2005)

Which Blue?  Air or Navy?   ;D

Med Coys are made up from all three Elements.  You have joined an Army Reserve Infantry Unit.  Like any Cadet joining the Reserves, from whatever Element, they will take on the uniform of the Reserve Unit they join.


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## dgrayca (3 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You have joined an Army Reserve Infantry Unit.



I guess the thing I found different is that, yes, while I joined an Reserve *Artillery*   Unit, I did not join as an Artillery Officer, but a Logistics Officer.  Being that Logistics is a purple trade and all....  but at any rate I think its clear that CIC to PRes has its own nuances.


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## Eowyn (3 Sep 2005)

dgrayca said:
			
		

> I guess the thing I found different is that, yes, while I joined an Reserve *Artillery*    Unit, I did not join as an Artillery Officer, but a Logistics Officer.   Being that Logistics is a purple trade and all....   but at any rate I think its clear that CIC to PRes has its own nuances.


Within the Army Reserve, the Log trades wear green, both DEU and combats.  The only exception I know of is the RSS which wear their colour of DEU.  We have had a Navy RQ and an Air Force Ops WO.  They wore their respective DEU on Bn parades.


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## pbi (4 Sep 2005)

Eowyn said:
			
		

> Within the Army Reserve, the Log trades wear green, both DEU and combats.   The only exception I know of is the RSS which wear their colour of DEU.   We have had a Navy RQ and an Air Force Ops WO.   They wore their respective DEU on Bn parades.


Actually, AFAIK there are no "purple" trades in the Army Reserve: Army Reseve soldiers cannot be moved between environments against their will. Unlike their Regular counterparts, their careers are managed through the Army Res chain of command, rather than via the NDHQ ADM HR (Mil) career manager world. An Army Reserve Veh Tech, supply tech or RMS clerk will be "green" for their entire service unless they decide to transfer to a reserve unit of another environment. This used to be true of our Res medics too, but now that they are in their own "world" that remains to be seen.

Cheers.


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## HollywoodHitman (6 Sep 2005)

I miss the tans......

At least back then, noone asked me which bus company I drove for......(seriously) :threat:

TM


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## Cloud Cover (14 Sep 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> Actually, AFAIK there are no "purple" trades in the Army Reserve: Army Reseve soldiers cannot be moved between environments against their will. Unlike their Regular counterparts, their careers are managed through the Army Res chain of command, rather than via the NDHQ ADM HR (Mil) career manager world. An Army Reserve Veh Tech, supply tech or RMS clerk will be "green" for their entire service unless they decide to transfer to a reserve unit of another environment. This used to be true of our Res medics too, but now that they are in their own "world" that remains to be seen.
> 
> Cheers.



Is that why the Navy Reserve has the position of Naval Intelligence Officer?


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## ohdiesel (11 May 2006)

Hello,

Does anyone know if you are in a trade which is native to all 3 elements (navy, army, air) if they can put you wherever they need you, or do you get to choose which element you want?

I, for one, would want Navy above all else.  Any ideas?

OD


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## George Wallace (11 May 2006)

It will depend on what Trade you select and are accepted for.  Some Trades can be "Any Element", while others are Element Specific.  You are not going to be Navy if you pick a Combat Arm (that is being really extreme as an example), as you are not likely to be Navy if you chose EME.  If you wanted Aero Engine or Air Frame Technician, you would be most likely in the Air Element.  Do you catch the pattern?


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## HCA123 (11 May 2006)

They will put you where they need you. For example, a buddy of mine wanted to go Navy Int O - but the CF needed Air Int O's, so he was given an offer for the air force. Other examples I know of; an HCA who wanted to go navy but was put in the Air F; an MPO who wanted Army but was offered a Navy position; a LOG O who wanted Navy but was given Air F and finally a lawyer who wanted Navy but was given Air F (in the end he sent a memo up his chain of command during IAP/BOTP and was granted a change to Navy).

These are all officer examples, however I'm sure the same thing happens in the NCM world with LOG and Medical trades. Those are the most common 'purple' trades (any element trades). There are others which you can find on the recruiting website (as it will specify if it is an element specific occupation)... MPs, Musicians, etc


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## ohdiesel (11 May 2006)

HCA123,

Thats the kind of answer I was looking for.  Thanks.

If I want navy I guess I should sign up for a navy-specific trade then because one of the trades I am applying for (MOC 291) is in all elements, but I am guessing they would put me wherever they needed me. 

OD



			
				HCA123 said:
			
		

> They will put you where they need you. For example, a buddy of mine wanted to go Navy Int O - but the CF needed Air Int O's, so he was given an offer for the air force. Other examples I know of; an HCA who wanted to go navy but was put in the Air F; an MPO who wanted Army but was offered a Navy position; a LOG O who wanted Navy but was given Air F and finally a lawyer who wanted Navy but was given Air F (in the end he sent a memo up his chain of command during IAP/BOTP and was granted a change to Navy).
> 
> These are all officer examples, however I'm sure the same thing happens in the NCM world with LOG and Medical trades. Those are the most common 'purple' trades (any element trades). There are others which you can find on the recruiting website (as it will specify if it is an element specific occupation)... MPs, Musicians, etc


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## dardt (11 May 2006)

ohdiesel said:
			
		

> HCA123,
> 
> Thats the kind of answer I was looking for.  Thanks.
> 
> ...



Sign up for the trade you want, don't worry too much about what uniform you're wearing. In the end it's not going to matter what uniform you're wearing if you don't like your job.


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## medicineman (11 May 2006)

Your uniform won't mean a thing if you're in a tri-service MOC.  You could end up Navy and spend your whole life in the field.  It's just a uniform.

MM


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## ohdiesel (11 May 2006)

Hello,

I really doubt a naval communicator would be out in the field, right?  

I really want navy so I will try to keep it to a trade that deals with that.b

OD



			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> Your uniform won't mean a thing if you're in a tri-service MOC.  You could end up Navy and spend your whole life in the field.  It's just a uniform.
> 
> MM


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## George Wallace (11 May 2006)

As stated above: you will go where they need you.  If they need a 'Communicator' in the back woods of Camp Petawawa, then don't be surprised if you go there.  You are joining the CF and will have to be willing to serve anywhere you are needed.  If you can not accept that, then you will not do well in the Forces, and should be advised now to forget it.  Save us all a lot of grief and don't apply.

I do believe others have already answered your questions satisfactorily.  Topic Locked.  If you have other questions on Environmental Uniforms and Elements, please use the Search Function and look up what has already been discussed.


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## 17thRecceSgt (11 May 2006)

ohdiesel said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I really doubt a naval communicator would be out in the field, right?
> 
> ...



OD,

You are right BUT...MedicineMan said "tri-service MOC" (example Medic, RMS or Supply Tech).  NavComm is a hard Navy trade vice tri-service...

 ;D


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## Neill McKay (12 May 2006)

I think there might be a little bit of confusion here, as two issues are being discussed at the same time.

First, when you join the Forces you're offered a job in a particular trade.  You can accept the offer if you like that trade, or decline it if you don't.  So there's no question of getting into the Forces and THEN being sent to a trade you don't want.

As others have said, some trades are specific to one element, e.g. all infanteers are in the army, and all boatswains are in the navy.  Some trades exist in two or three elements, e.g. RMS clerk or supply technician.  In those trades you can end up in any posting regardless of what uniform you wear, e.g. you can find army clerks in ships and navy supply technicians at air force bases.

Finally, some trades have element-specific sub-trades, e.g. logistics officers.  A naval logistics officer has taken training specific to the naval element, and presumably will spend most of his time working in that element, but if I'm not mistaken, can still be posted to a base or other employment in another element.  (Getting slightly outside of my experience on that issue, so better information than mine should be sought.)

But in all cases, a person really joins the Canadian Forces rather than the navy, army, or air force as such.  Anyone in the Forces can be sent anywhere he's needed, inside or outside of his own element (e.g. to teach a course or fill a position that doesn't have a specific trade requirement).


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## Hot Lips (12 May 2006)

So...then...which uniform will a NO wear?
There aren't any NOs @ sea...yes?
They are tri-service MOCs yes?

HL


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## vonGarvin (12 May 2006)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> So...then...which uniform will a NO wear?
> There aren't any NOs @ sea...yes?
> They are tri-service MOCs yes?
> 
> HL


What is a NO?


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## George Wallace (12 May 2006)

Well, if there are no NO@sea (MSN Speake?) then they can't be Naval Officers.  Could they be Nursing Officers?  Beats Nursing Sisters - NS.  Would hate to find a woman who was NS.


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## Hot Lips (12 May 2006)

LMAO...yes NO = Nursing Officer

HL


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## 17thRecceSgt (12 May 2006)

NO (Nursing Officers) can wear any of the environmental uniforms...

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/career/tradeinfo_e.aspx?id=57

The Recruiting website shows what DEU a trade may wear...which is NOT directly related to where you can end up serving.  But the Working Environment info for each trade on the website gives the "standard party line" of where the trade "typically" serves.  Typically being the operative word IMO.

Oddly enough, one of the places not listed is...CFRCs    (not "typical" employment for anyone? although we all know each environment employs members as CFRC staff under CFRG).

IIRC, the only "trade" that mentions recruiting centers in the job description is....

Officer - Personnel Selection

And even this trade is purple   ;D


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## 17thRecceSgt (12 May 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Well, if there are no NO@sea (MSN Speake?) then they can't be Naval Officers.  Could they be Nursing Officers?  Beats Nursing Sisters - NS.  Would hate to find a woman who was NS.



or even worse...one that is N/S

 :blotto:


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## pbi (13 May 2006)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> Is that why the Navy Reserve has the position of Naval Intelligence Officer?



Sorry: I must be missing something (it's Saturday morning...). What is the connection between support trades in the Army Res and IntO's in the NavRes?

Cheers


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