# Bring Back the army Forage / Peak Caps ... ?



## Signal-Man (16 Sep 2005)

Remember when the army DEU dress cap was the ol' black and dark green forage / peak cap variant of the navy's dress wear?   The air force had the same thing, obviously blue & black.   But excluding them fellers _sorry guys_, do you think we should bring 'em back?

I think they look really sharp & professional ... adding to the visage of authority of a soldier in uniform.

What do you think ... ?

Signal-Man


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## paracowboy (16 Sep 2005)

I hated being asked what bus route I drove. (Yeah, it happened.)
And I thought they looked ridiculous, even before I enlisted.


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## geo (16 Sep 2005)

Forage caps 
- wore the Army; Black with red band variant (also blue band variant for RCE) for a little while and the plain green CF one thereafter.......... till we tanked them... to be quite honest, I am not particularly keen on the green variant... green Beret will do me fine.....

If unit SSMs would do their thing and ensure that those dingy, grimy, worn down to the cord berrets were restricted to the field or the dustbin - think it would be a good start. Now that the clothing upkeep allowance has been ditched in favour of clothing "points" individuals might find it easier to "budget" a new beret each year.... after all - they won't be able to spend it.


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Sep 2005)

Coloured Field Service Caps would be the way to go - each regiment and corps used to have its own coloured "wedge" cap for walking out in.  Would be nice to see those return.  Forage caps were okay, when each corps and regiment had its own colour band; the CF Green ones looked pretty hideous.

Even the police in most cities don't actually wear the forage cap as duty dress anymore.  I think it's going the way of the dodo - when's the last time anyone in North America wore a top hat?


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## Kat Stevens (16 Sep 2005)

A forage cap with a guardsman's peak on it makes you hold your head up in order to be able to see.  They look sharp, but are a chronic pain in the arse to wear and maintain.  Stay with the beret in my book.


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## sigpig (16 Sep 2005)

The bus driver hat?!?!  Nooooooooo...  That ugly thing went in a box after cfocs and never came out. Never bring that horrible thing back.


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## geo (16 Sep 2005)

on a day to day basis - keeping and storing the Forage caps was a pain in the buns. 300 guys with caps & coats in a cloak room............ Yikes!!! (lot easier to scrunch beret in a pocket)

With respect to the wedge.... talk to the boys in the airforce - looks pretty but is a real nuisance, almost have to tape em down to your head on a windy day.


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Sep 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> on a day to day basis - keeping and storing the Forage caps was a pain in the buns. 300 guys with caps & coats in a cloak room............ Yikes!!! (lot easier to scrunch beret in a pocket)
> 
> With respect to the wedge.... talk to the boys in the airforce - looks pretty but is a real nuisance, almost have to tape em down to your head on a windy day.



I wasn't aware the Air Force went outside.   ???

Or wore hats, for that matter....


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## muskrat89 (16 Sep 2005)

I like em on AIGs and IGs.. other than that.... blecch


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## PViddy (16 Sep 2005)

I personally like the forage cap for ceremonial parades and important functions etc. However, as you can see i am Airforce.  On the topic Can any of AF colleagues confirm or deny that forage caps are going the way of the dinosaur for the AF as well?

cheers

PV


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## KevinB (16 Sep 2005)

I can only say that I am SO glad they are gone.

 But I dont think the Green Beret is the only colour of beret


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## MOOO! (16 Sep 2005)

If you miss the forge cap CG might be the place for you.  Personally I don't miss them one bit.


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## Infanteer (16 Sep 2005)

I'm a fan of the wedge as well, but the beret (if people put some effort into them) looks just as fine.


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## Britney Spears (16 Sep 2005)

Woohoo, DEU reform: Another THREAD THAT NEVER ENDS!!


People actually complain about this stuff? Remember that whol "the side with the simplest uniform wins" thing?


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## Signal-Man (16 Sep 2005)

The US Marine Corps did a pretty decent job with their forage caps . . . that uniform is pretty sharp.  That's about the only thing I admire about the leather necks come to think of it . . . they imitated our CADPAT calling it the "Utility Dress" the buggers.  Hopefully their's don't fade like ours do ...

Still like the forage cap idea though gents, perhaps a re-tailored design ... ?

Cheers


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## GGHG_Cadet (16 Sep 2005)

I love the Governor General's Horse Guard's forage caps for the ceremonial uniform, it looks really sharp. The peak looks different from the one on the green forage caps, it seems more angled. I think thats what makes it look so nice.


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## Haggis (16 Sep 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware the Air Force went outside.     ???
> 
> Or wore hats, for that matter....



Only if there's a Timmy's within walking distance.

I think forage caps are a great idea!!!  Just like the greatcoat, they go really well with a kilt.   ;D


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## X Royal (16 Sep 2005)

Forage caps were the most uncomfortable piece of crap I ever had to wear on my head. Thankfully never after Cornwallis. Come to think about it, after getting damp in the Nova Scotia fall they smelt just about as bad.
BTW I should still have one arround if anyone wants to buy it.  ???


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Sep 2005)

For anyone nostalgic about the forage cap, I think the solution is to join the Corps of Commissionaires; they still wear them. Mostly.


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## grayman (16 Sep 2005)

Peak caps are a thing of the past, you might as well bring back the old bus driver jackets or battle dress for that matter, peak caps just plain suck!! you can look just as sharp and professional while wearing a beret.


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## Pencil Tech (16 Sep 2005)

The green bus driver hat was indeed awful. But the the Guards look is really great. Usually, most of us only wear DEU these days for ceremonial parades and such. I don't think it would be a big hardship to look after a smart-looking hat that you only had to take out on special occasions. I find that our DEU looks a little shabby. Re. top hats being out of style, good point   but when you look at our DEUs you have to admit that 19" flared trouser cuffs and tight skirted jackets with mile-long vents in the back kind of went out with Deep Purple and Foghat.   ;D


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## Kat Stevens (16 Sep 2005)

What did I miss? Was there a memo? When did Foghat and Deep Purple become uncool?


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## KevinB (16 Sep 2005)

Do they even issue them to new troops today -- all pictures I've seen of St Jean has recruits in berets?

 Anyone who's gone thru SJ confirm?


The only worse piece of clothing was the Lint Trap Hat (whatever its called) it was good for dusting but I've seen one person wear it (in Ottawa - NDHQ)

 Bus Driver suit - you know I hated that jacket but we usually worse the CF Sweater, or just the workdress shirt.
I still have a WD Shirt Name Tag and an old set of slipons -   



As for dress - a simple appointement to a tailor and DEU's can look decent.   The material is ASS though.


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## grayman (16 Sep 2005)

A serious retooling of the CF's is in order, what I would like to see, although totally impractical, seriously expensive and a logistical nightmare would be do like the brits do and each unit has their own type of dress uniform, some of those uniforms are seriosly sharp looking.  Having said that though if the troop wearing it is a bag of hammers it doesnt matter what the uniform looks like.  At the bare minimum I wouldnt mind having a summer CF uniform something lightweight,like the tans, but keep it green the tans looked like a leisure suit out of the 70's. There is nothing worse than trooping the colours for three hours in the middle of june wearing wool from head to toe.


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## Pencil Tech (16 Sep 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> What did I miss? Was there a memo? When did Foghat and Deep Purple become uncool?



Well spoken K(C)at Stevens. ;D


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Sep 2005)

grayman said:
			
		

> A serious retooling of the CF's is in order, what I would like to see, although totally impractical, seriously expensive and a logistical nightmare would be do like the brits do and each unit has their own type of dress uniform, some of those uniforms are seriosly sharp looking.  Having said that though if the troop wearing it is a bag of hammers it doesnt matter what the uniform looks like.  At the bare minimum I wouldnt mind having a summer CF uniform something lightweight,like the tans, but keep it green the tans looked like a leisure suit out of the 70's. There is nothing worse than trooping the colours for three hours in the middle of june wearing wool from head to toe.



Most units in Canada DO have ceremonial dress approved, most just can't afford to buy them.

The DEU is a soldierly looking uniform, and the style is keeping with our traditions.  It's a good uniform when kept up properly, and tailored to the individual.  Some would complain that it isn't brown like the old Khaki service dress or the British Army uniforms, but CF Green is tradition now.  I think it suits us.

I liked the tans, but then we only wore the top half; looked good with a kilt.  That pants were pretty flimsy looking, and especially unflattering for the females who had to wear them.


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## Pencil Tech (16 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> As for dress - a simple appointement to a tailor and DEU's can look decent.



Well, I agree with you there, but how many people would actually do that? You mean "a tailor" - not "the base tailor", right?    But you look at any parade and there's guys with big flapping flaring floodpants right up at the top of their ankle boots, tunics so short their arse is sticking out a mile, and so tight the buttons are potential deadly projectiles.


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## Pencil Tech (16 Sep 2005)

I wish officers had their ranks on the shoulder straps of the tunic, having it as gold braid on the cuff makes them look like they work for WestJet.


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## George Wallace (16 Sep 2005)

Pencil Tech said:
			
		

> Well, I agree with you there, but how many people would actually do that? You mean "a tailor" - not "the base tailor", right?     But you look at any parade and there's guys with big flapping flaring floodpants right up at the top of their ankle boots, tunics so short their arse is sticking out a mile, and so tight the buttons are potential deadly projectiles.



Now that we are off topic and onto the DEU; I have had arguments over the last twenty odd years about the boots.   I argued with my CO in Germany, that the whole CF (L) should wear SSF boots (Not Garrison Boots) instead of ankle boots and blouse the pants.   In the SSF we looked sharp.   The rest of the CF looked like Bus Drivers with their forage caps.   The Boots really did dress up the uniform and made one look more like a Soldier.   It in turn showed a little more pride in dress.   I felt pleased some twenty years later when he finally agreed with me.


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## reccecrewman (16 Sep 2005)

While George brought up the subject of SSF boots, I'll add this....................... Never mind just the boots, BRING BACK THE SSF! On the actual topic of hats, I'm against the forage caps.  I take much more pride in the fact that I wear a black beret.  It's distinct, looks sharp and no other Army unit has it.  The RCAC has a much deeper traditional tie to the black beret than that god awful looking green forage cap.


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## Neill McKay (16 Sep 2005)

grayman said:
			
		

> Peak caps are a thing of the past, you might as well bring back the old bus driver jackets or battle dress for that matter, peak caps just plain suck!! you can look just as sharp and professional while wearing a beret.



Perhaps, but at least a peaked cap keeps the rain off your head.  A beret just seems to absorb more and more of it.


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## Rick Delaney 1 (16 Sep 2005)

As someone who wore the forage cap many times,I didn't mind it one bit.Even in windy downtown Winnipeg or riding the transit bus I Didn't even mind being asked for directions while waiting for someone at the airport, that was until one day while talking to a very pretty RCMP officer at the Winnipeg airport some lady interupted to ask me to carry her bags to her car.The response she received was blunt and not what she expected but I'll bet she'll never again mistake a military uniform  for a bus driver's or baggage porter's ;D.


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## TCBF (18 Sep 2005)

"But I dont think the Green Beret is the only colour of beret"

- Why, Kevin, thanks for thinking of me!   ;D

Shock of all shocks, was being posted to CFRS Cornwallis and being told on GMTI Crse that the CF Svc dress included the Forage cap.  What a scramble  to find it.  I had to borrow one.  I think I still have it, it has 'Dumas' written in it. ;D

- Then, in 1985 or so, they changed the Dress regs so Armour could wear the Black Beret with all orders of dress (minus some ceremonial ones, of course).

Tom


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## ChopperHead (18 Sep 2005)

I like the forage cap It looks sharp however I have never wore one so I cant say anything about how practical or comfortable it is. 

http://www.williamscully.ca/gallery/Royal-Canadian-Hussars/Hussar_s_Changing_of_the_Guidon


now you can't tell me that doesnt look sharp. and they as you can see dont have to be green.
lots of other pics on that website of former canadian military dress.

Kyle.


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## STA Gunner (18 Sep 2005)

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> I like em on AIGs and IGs.. other than that.... blecch



If we are ever allowed to wear them again.

As for the green beret, the MPs and Armour are not the only ones with a history of colour in their beret.  Unfortunately, Arty council keeps rejecting the Midnight Blue beret for gunners due to the cost of issuing every gunner a new beret.


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## redleafjumper (18 Sep 2005)

I liked wearing my forage cap; it kept the rain off my glasses.  Besides that I think forage caps  look cool, at least as officer's kit, and as I understand it, general officers still get to wear them.  I agree that berets and wedges are very practical kit, but berets in particular do show their age and the particularly well-loved ones tend to look pretty shabby in full dress.  I believe the decision to dump the forage cap was purely a cost one - berets are just plain cheaper than forage caps and they fit in a duffle bag better.


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## pbi (18 Sep 2005)

No, DON'T!  At least not as an item of daily dress. Full ceremonial DEU parades-well...OK-maybe. It was a pain the ass to keep on your head on a windy parade square, it was almost impossible to ship it without distorting it, and it sucked up lint from its surroundings. A beret, properly sized and worn, can look just as sharp for daily dress and is much more practical..

Cheers.


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## ArmyRick (18 Sep 2005)

No forge caps. NO FOREG CAPS ! OF ALL THE BLOODY THINGS WE NEED IN THE CF, FORGE CAPS ARE NOT IT !!!  

It would be a waste of money, time and resources. The DEU are fine as they are now and we are a cash strapped army.

I remember when we had forge caps and most units never wore them. I wore mine in Cornwallis and that was it.

This thought shouldn't even be entertained.


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## garb811 (18 Sep 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> It was a pain the *** to keep on your head on a windy parade square...



You mean some enterprising soul didn't order you to use the chin strap to hold it on?   >


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## TCBF (18 Sep 2005)

"I never got a peaked cap, the navy still gets them but apart from that, nope, just berets. Heck, we only wore DEU's once and that was just for one morning inspection near the end of my course."

- Piper, you mean your grad parade, marching past in column and column of route, in slow and quick time, open and close order march on the march in slow time, etc, was not done in DEUs?

I think the tans was the best uniform ever issued, and we only got rid of it because if a person was fat, it was impossible to hide.

Tom


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## Acorn (19 Sep 2005)

Could we quit calling them "forge caps?" I just get an image of a bug guy with an apron hammering on a piece of metal. It's a "forage" cap.

That being said, I think officers should wear it - we have few enough uniform distinctions.  >


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## geo (19 Sep 2005)

Acorn said:
			
		

> I think officers should wear it - we have few enough uniform distinctions.   >



What do you have against Officers?



			
				Haggis said:
			
		

> Only if there's a Timmy's within walking distance.
> 
> I think forage caps are a great idea!!!   Just like the greatcoat, they go really well with a kilt.     ;D


well.... Highlanders don't wear forrage caps. They may wear a Feather Bonnet, a Glengarry or a Balmoral BUT NEVER a forrage cap..... you sure you're in the highlanders?


Years gone by, the Regular CF got the forrage caps while the Reserves got only the berrets... and then someone figured out that the Reserves got the better deal 

Colours.......
Maroon for the Airborne
Scarlet for the Infantry (colour stolen by the MPs.... call the police!!!)
Black for the Armoured (colour stolen by the US Army)...
Navy blue for the Artillery, the Engineers, and pretty much all the other support trades.....

Ah - and then there's the Airforce with their grey/blue berrets

Then again..... Remember when the armoured insisted in wearing a scarlet topped forrage cap (in days of Patrol blues)???? (all flash - no cash )


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## Kat Stevens (19 Sep 2005)

I agree, officers should have to wear it, all the time, with all orders of dress, PT gear included.


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## PViddy (19 Sep 2005)

> I agree, officers should have to wear it, all the time, with all orders of dress, PT gear included.



LMOL!!

maybe i should order a bigger size so i can fit a sweat band underneath.

cheers

PV


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## paracowboy (19 Sep 2005)

oh, just to make it clear: do NOT get caught wearing your forage cap backwards, DEU pants pulled down over your undies, and shirt undone from the bottom up, with only the very top button done up, and a Browning stuffed in the waistband. 

Sar'nts-Major look so sad when they cry.


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## TCBF (19 Sep 2005)

Torpedo....los!


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## RCA (20 Sep 2005)

One of the best days , dress wise was when the Army went to comabat as dress of the day. The principal WRT to uniforms is KISS. You shouldn't need a seperate storage shed to keep all your stuff.

Forage caps are dead and buried as they should be. (thats is except for IGs and AIGs so dignity can still be bestowed on the black arts).


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## geo (21 Sep 2005)

I look at pictures of troops in what used to be the Eastern Block and am amaazed by the LP sized flat tops those gentlemen wear......... wow

Think back to old reruns of "12 O'Clock high" and the headphones clamped down over those forage caps worn by the flyboys.......... just picture them after some 80 missions - the tops reaching down to their ears........ Ugh

there are the two extremes.... and I find neither very appealing.

When you consider the Beret - we've probably seen 10,000 ways of wearing them - some good and some bad - but if the Section Commander & the Tp WO are worth their salt, they've invested some time in showing the troops how it should be done.

It's a simple issue of discipline to ensure that last year's beret is relegated to field use while a spanking new one (c/o clothing on line) is ordered & broken in with TLC.

Chimo!


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## Haggis (21 Sep 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> well.... Highlanders don't wear forrage caps. They may wear a Feather Bonnet, a Glengarry or a Balmoral BUT NEVER a forrage cap..... you sure you're in the highlanders?



Clearly sarcasm is lost on you.....


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## geo (21 Sep 2005)

Hmmmmmmmmm...... might say the same

then again, tried to get a friend of mine, who transfered from the BW to CGG to get photographed wearing, Kilt, scarlet jacket & Busby............ for some silly reason - he wouldn't comply???? Odd!!!!


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## Haggis (21 Sep 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmmmmmmmm...... might say the same
> 
> then again, tried to get a friend of mine, who transfered from the BW to CGG to get photographed wearing, Kilt, scarlet jacket & Busby............ for some silly reason - he wouldn't comply???? Odd!!!!



Seems that some "normal" items of CF headress simply were never meant to be worn with a kilt. Certainly the forage cap and the beret.  Have yet to see a Highlander in a turban though.

The greatcoat and raincoat are dismal fashion failures when worn with a kilt.  In small communities, where everoyone knows what a Highlander is, it's no big deal.  In big cites, however, to some you look like "Freddy the Flasher".

All that being said, with the exception of a Guard's peak cap, the forage cap should be reserved for officers simply because the braid allows for target recognition and the launch of a sharp salute at extreme range.  Great fun in the NCR.  I've seen some officers cross the street to avoid having to return a salute lest they have to balance their Timmys in the same hand as thier briefcase.


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## ArmyRick (21 Sep 2005)

OK Guys look, Forage caps are gonzo, get over it, they are not even a blip on General Hillier's distant radar screen.  The whole point I am trying to drive home here is The CF needs many things, lets not waste a single dime or penny on Forage caps.

Hey I like the old british rank structure but I have long accepted its gone the way of the dodo in the candian army...

Lets deal with what the CF needs.


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## PViddy (22 Sep 2005)

Can any of the Air folks help me out here.  Is the forage cap still acceptable form of head dress at formal parades ? and is still being issued ? just curious.

cheers

PV


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## Infanteer (22 Sep 2005)

Man, sometimes this board is hot with about 4 or 5 awesome threads going and sometimes it is in the doldrums.

5 pages of conversation on a forage cap being the highlight of the Army forum is definately the latter.....

ushup:


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## Michael OLeary (22 Sep 2005)

And if they did come back, I'd have to pick one to wear:


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## Glorified Ape (22 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Do they even issue them to new troops today -- all pictures I've seen of St Jean has recruits in berets?
> 
> Anyone who's gone thru SJ confirm?



The only people isssued anything but berets were the sailors (the forage) and the airmen (the wedge).


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## X Royal (22 Sep 2005)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> And if they did come back, I'd have to pick one to wear:



Although I think the forage caps are crap, I like the cap badges. 
BTW other than the forage cap on the far left I doubt any were issued during your carreer.

Pro Patria


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Sep 2005)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Seems that some "normal" items of CF headress simply were never meant to be worn with a kilt. Certainly the forage cap and the beret.  Have yet to see a Highlander in a turban though.
> 
> The greatcoat and raincoat are dismal fashion failures when worn with a kilt.  In small communities, where everoyone knows what a Highlander is, it's no big deal.  In big cites, however, to some you look like "Freddy the Flasher".
> 
> All that being said, with the exception of a Guard's peak cap, the forage cap should be reserved for officers simply because the braid allows for target recognition and the launch of a sharp salute at extreme range.  Great fun in the NCR.  I've seen some officers cross the street to avoid having to return a salute lest they have to balance their Timmys in the same hand as thier briefcase.



One of our officers wore the maroon beret on parade with his kilt; he was on strength with the Skyhawks at the time.


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Sep 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Man, sometimes this board is hot with about 4 or 5 awesome threads going and sometimes it is in the doldrums.
> 
> 5 pages of conversation on a forage cap being the highlight of the Army forum is definately the latter.....
> 
> ushup:



If you're not interested, why speak?  Inflating your post count?  Some people are interested in uniforms; I personally am fascinated by them.  I seem to recall you posting a few pictures of USMC dress regulations and hotly debating why we should go the same route.  So why piss on this thread about forage caps?  Honestly Infanteer, sometimes you're hard to understand.  If it's a waste of time - why waste your time?


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## Infanteer (22 Sep 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> If you're not interested, why speak?  Inflating your post count?  Some people are interested in uniforms; I personally am fascinated by them.  I seem to recall you posting a few pictures of USMC dress regulations and hotly debating why we should go the same route.  So why piss on this thread about forage caps?  Honestly Infanteer, sometimes you're hard to understand.  If it's a waste of time - why waste your time?



Well, as Britney so succinctly put it:



			
				Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Woohoo, DEU reform: Another THREAD THAT NEVER ENDS!!
> 
> People actually complain about this stuff? Remember that whol "the side with the simplest uniform wins" thing?



Look through the thread - it is pages of "Looks grate!" or "I hated the effing thing!" with some humour thrown in.  At the time I wrote the post, it was to highlight the fact that this was the only thread that was getting posts on Army.ca - I was attempting to add a little levity to it; sorry if that violated your precious uniform discussion.

There can be serious discussion on uniforms, but it has to be approached seriously not simply "Hey, that's kewl".  Other than that, here is some good reading for you until you decide to get back to trolling by responding to every post I make on these forums with pissy complaints.


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## muskrat89 (22 Sep 2005)

MD - I am sure that there are hundreds of posts and/or personalities that you could take issue with, on this board. With you and Infanteer, it seems personal. If that's the case, take it to PMs, or file a complaint with Mike Bobbitt if you have a problem.


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## Danjanou (22 Sep 2005)

Anyways to try and steer this back on topic. How about we resurrect the tricorne hat why'll we're at it? I always though that they looked spiffy. 

Also, maybe its too much of HBO's Rome lately but some of those helmets with the inverted shoe brush on top are like rilly kewl too. Also practical too, no excuse for unshined boots.

On to other things as another threads spirals hopelessly off course:



			
				paracowboy said:
			
		

> oh, just to make it clear: do NOT get caught wearing your forage cap backwards, DEU pants pulled down over your undies, and shirt undone from the bottom up, with only the very top button done up, and a Browning stuffed in the waistband.
> 
> Sar'nts-Major look so sad when they cry.



Cowboy between this  the Prada patrol gear fixation, and the clothing optional battle drills, someone of us are becoming concerned.


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## paracowboy (22 Sep 2005)

I like to think of it as "hanging ten" on the front wave of fashion. I'm an innovator.


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## CANSIGS (22 Sep 2005)

I agree they do look sharp on parades only. For every day use Ill stick to my beret.
The good thing about forage caps was in the rain. At leas it drained away and gave some 
protection to the face


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## geo (22 Sep 2005)

CANSIGS said:
			
		

> I agree they do look sharp on parades only. For every day use Ill stick to my beret.
> The good thing about forage caps was in the rain. At leas it drained away and gave some
> protection to the face



You would think..............not!!!

wore red band & blue band before wearing the green one.......... 
perfectly content with my beret
Thank you very much for asking

Chimo!


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## TCBF (23 Sep 2005)

Thus endeth the lesson?

Tom


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## Sabre1918 (23 Sep 2005)

During our TQ3 course we were told that we
would never wear them anymore.
Many of us threw them out or burned them.

Nothing but a Black Beret has touched my skull since !


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## reccecrewman (24 Sep 2005)

> Unfortunately, Arty council keeps rejecting the Midnight Blue beret for gunners due to the cost of issuing every gunner a new beret.



Well, with the scrapping of the old clothing allowance, and the new points system at www.logistikunicorp.com, maybe the arty council will agree to bring you your midnight blue beret. I'm sure the gunners wouldn't have a huge heartache over cashing in a couple points to get a new beret.


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## Kyle (24 Sep 2005)

Hmm. Wearing a green beret with my patrol blues just looks...Wrong on so many different levels.


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## TCBF (24 Sep 2005)

If your Regt can afford Patrols, they can afford the hats that go with them.

Tom


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## Kyle (24 Sep 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> If your Regt can afford Patrols, they can afford the hats that go with them.
> 
> Tom



I had to acquire mine on my own. I picked up an old Royal Artillery set (cheap, too), then just changed the buttons, shoulder titles and collar dogs. The cap I got for free from a militaria dealer friend of mine - dated February 1962 with a pre-1974 RCEME badge. I had to make the lanyard myself, since the kitshop in Borden no longer carries them. And they don't carry the belt buckles for white stable belts anymore either, so I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for one in my travels. Thus is the saga to find Patrols. Pathetic, I know.


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## RangerRay (25 Sep 2005)

I have to say that the current green forage caps are ugly.  But for certain units and/or trades (not all), I think they should adopt unique forage caps for ceromonial purposes only, not for everyday wear.

As for armour (or LdSH(RC) anyways), they should adopt the Stetson!  A historical tie to its inception during the Boer War!  ;D


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## TCBF (25 Sep 2005)

You might be on to something there.

Tom


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## Spr.Earl (25 Sep 2005)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> I have to say that the current green forage caps are ugly.   But for certain units and/or trades (not all), I think they should adopt unique forage caps for ceromonial purposes only, not for everyday wear.
> 
> As for armour (or LdSH(RC) anyways), they should adopt the Stetson!   A historical tie to its inception during the Boer War!   ;D


Same for all Units.


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## onecat (25 Sep 2005)

forage caps.... why.  Our current head dress look much better and is more useful.  It would just be a waste of money.


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## Signal-Man (25 Sep 2005)

The Stetson is a great idea . . . but would we put our ranks on the front, our cap badge, or leave it plain?   Would senior NCO's & senior officers have thicker gold rope crossing over the base of the hat itself?   Oh the possibilities.

On another note, do you think we should add the *Sam Brown Belt*.   The thick black belt around the waist with the interconnected strap that crosses over your chest and around your opposite shoulder?

The idea of forage caps, stetsons, belts and any other such accessories was always intended to be worn only on special occasions whilst in full DEU regalia ... never to be adorned in day-to-day garrison duty.  Combats & berets will suffice thanks.  My intention was for formal dress only.


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## ArmyRick (25 Sep 2005)

ceremonial dress is dependent on your regimental association and there fore is NOT public expense. For example the RCR scarlets, the RCD dress uniform or the strat's ridining troop are all paid for by their associations.

So each regiment and corps should wear what they see fit for their quarter guards or other ceremonial parades.

That should sum up that conversation. Lets stick to forage caps and what a complete waste of $$$ it is. NO FORAGE CAPS.


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## Signal-Man (25 Sep 2005)

But yeah, like the good Sgt said, perhaps we should focus on these ...


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## armyvern (25 Sep 2005)

Just had to check in on the status of this poll....thank God the beret is still way out in front!! ;D


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## Eowyn (25 Sep 2005)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> ceremonial dress is dependent on your regimental association and there fore is NOT public expense.



I believe there is a public grant that can be obtained for authorized Ceremonial dress.  I don't recall the Q&R O and CFAO at the moment.


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## Tracker (25 Sep 2005)

The forage cap sucked, the chin strap sucked even worse.


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## geo (25 Sep 2005)

Kyle said:
			
		

> I had to acquire mine on my own. I picked up an old Royal Artillery set (cheap, too), then just changed the buttons, shoulder titles and collar dogs. The cap I got for free from a militaria dealer friend of mine - dated February 1962 with a pre-1974 RCEME badge. I had to make the lanyard myself, since the kitshop in Borden no longer carries them. And they don't carry the belt buckles for white stable belts anymore either, so I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for one in my travels. Thus is the saga to find Patrols. Pathetic, I know.



If you are looking for stable belts, lanyards and the rest, you should contact William Scully Ltd.... they've been making military accoutrements for eons and have considerable "old brass" & accoutrements for the old branches.......

try:
http://www.williamscully.ca/


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## brihard (26 Sep 2005)

I spent my summer doing Ceremonial Guard in Ottawa- for those of you who aren't familiar with it, it's the unit that does the Changing of the Guard parade at Parliament, and sentry duty at Rideau Hall. I was attached to the Canadian Grenadier Guards company out of montreal, and the other company was Governor General's Foot Guards out of Ottawa. Part of our order of dress for DEUs was the forage cap. It looks pretty sharp if yours is in good condition, and actually looks really spiffy with the scarlet uniforms (which are a whole other pain in the ass themselves), but I wouldn't want to have to wear them regularly. That being said, I don't mind them for ceremonial purposes. I think CGG and GGFG wear them at home unit for parades in DEUs. Someone mentioned the GGHG earlier, so I'm assuming that Forage Caps are now used exclusively (in land force, at least) by Guards units. So unless you're a reservist who gets a CG summer tasking, or are a member of one of those units, you shouldn't have to worry about ever wearing one. I still think it looks pretty sexy with the formal scarlets though. 

I'm halfway through changing my beret for a balmoral right now, so for some reason headdress seems to have been a real fixture in my military life for the past three months. I really wish the unit transfer process was more streamlined...


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## geo (26 Sep 2005)

Having trouble puttin those trousers on in the morning eh?

CGG & GGFG do not wear the standard CF forage cap - with their super short peak (beak) they are worn in a decidedly different manner than usual manner.... please feel free to consult CFP201
or CFP 158 dress regs


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## RangerRay (26 Sep 2005)

Signal-Man said:
			
		

> The Stetson is a great idea . . . but would we put our ranks on the front, our cap badge, or leave it plain?   Would senior NCO's & senior officers have thicker gold rope crossing over the base of the hat itself?   Oh the possibilities.



I envisioned a Steston with the regimental cap badge.  Like the RCMP, officers would wear forage caps.

The reason I mentioned armour regiments was because Stetsons were worn by their predecessor horse regiments at the turn of the century...

They would even look sharp in combats too!  

But they wouldn't be too practical inside a tank!  :tank:


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## DG-41 (26 Sep 2005)

The pillbox

Rocks.

Nothing says "sexy" like a chinstrap tanline.

DG


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## onecat (26 Sep 2005)

"I envisioned a Steston with the regimental cap badge."

cowboy hats... man I hope not, sure looks okay on teh RCMP  but lets leave at that.


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2005)

DG-41 said:
			
		

> Nothing says "sexy" like a chinstrap tanline.



I object!! Gotta go with the maroon beret here!!  ;D


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## geo (27 Sep 2005)

DG-41 said:
			
		

> The pillbox
> Rocks.
> Nothing says "sexy" like a chinstrap tanline.



Ummm - like the one those Capuchin monkeys wear with the organ grinders?
Now - wouldn't you love to be associated with something like that  (JK)


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## Big Foot (27 Sep 2005)

Ah yes, pillbox. I hate them with a passion, after having gotten said "sexy" chinstrap tan...


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Sep 2005)

DG-41 said:
			
		

> The pillbox
> 
> Rocks.
> 
> ...



Ah yes. Another part of that useless "ringknocker" paraphernalia that effectively separates them from the real world


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## DG-41 (27 Sep 2005)

So spoken by somone who has obviously never experienced the awesome sexual attraction powers of the pilllbox and its associated tanline.



DG


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## claybot (27 Sep 2005)

Seems some Army pers have forgotten the only good part of having to wear a Forage Cap on parade. It saved the face of anyone who passed out and fell forwards in proper military fashion, with the beret alot more pain is involved.

Other than that I hope it never comes back spent too much time polishing it with tooth paste and shaving cream.

And it was the most uncomfortable piece of headgear I've ever worn in the CF.


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## long haired civvy (29 Sep 2005)

I hated forage caps, always got a headache after wearing them. Mine got crushed in my kitbag once, and I looked like a U Boat captain after that.


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## Maverick585 (30 Sep 2005)

well.. from an airforce point of view  
the wedge cap is great... other than when it rains.. cause it doesn't keep u dry.. much like a beret... but still.. i think the forage cap would look sharp with any uniform.. my buddy in teh GGFG still wears his with his DEU's... and it looks super cool... at least the officers should still wear then.. i think.. even though i'm a Pte.. 

and for the record.. the wedge is a great piece of kit.. in fits nicely in your flt suit pocket... what more do u need.. the joys of being air crew.. we get them.. but yah.. i love my wedge.. it's the air force ... i have my beret... and i look like apizza guy in it..c ause i got one of the new ones that's too long ont he side.. and thier is nothing i can do about it... and in the wind... well.. the wedge cap is fine.. if u get the right size.. if u don't.. well that's your own fault for being a hammer head.. come on.. get the thing to fit.. and no probls... geess... like what do u expect... and us air force wear our head dress so little is doesn't matter... from my house to my Jeep to work.. in side the building.. int he pocket.. for the rest of the day.. till work to jeep to home.. then it's off... 

that's my two cents.. i expect change back 

later
Andrew


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## geo (30 Sep 2005)

... into the pocket....
which is exactly my point about forage caps.
ever try to sort out a table / shelf full of forage caps priot to a parade..

with respect to your "too big" beret maverick.....  it is possible to shrink the bleeding thing... boil the wool while ensuring the leather does not soak in the hot water. Am certain there are several threads on the various techniques you can use


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## Glorified Ape (30 Sep 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Ah yes. Another part of that useless "ringknocker" paraphernalia that effectively separates them from the real world



Yes, but it sets them apart so we may know who to point and laugh at.


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## Stew (1 Oct 2005)

Nope, never bloody again leave 'em where they lie, as well get rid of this useless beret too, 21 yrs of burning my ear tips with frost bite, Beret head, and being down half a quart is enough... as a mtter of fact the whole deu uniform should be scrapped all together ... its a waist of money. Lets get ourselves better and a large quantity of Battle dress uniforms that arent going to fade regardless of the type of detergent  that I wash them in, more troops in uniform (its an old army retiring fast), hey lets scrap the reserves and force them to join the regs to make up our short falls! things like stalwart guardian, arcon eat up alot of money that could be turned elsewhere useful.


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## Burrows (2 Oct 2005)

Stew,

From where are you coming from?  What experience do you have to back up your post?

At army.ca we like to know what background people have before they go talking smack about a whole bunch of stuff.

Kyle Burrows
Army.ca Staff


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Oct 2005)

Stew, that was your freebie, make another troll post like that again and you are out of here. Read the Guidelines please.


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## George Wallace (2 Oct 2005)

Kyle, Ex

I see a sarcastic post, in the same tone as most other posts here, from a guy who has 21 years of wearing Berets and getting frost bit ears.  What do you see in the way of lack of experience or trolling?


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## Kyle (2 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> If you are looking for stable belts, lanyards and the rest, you should contact William Scully Ltd.... they've been making military accoutrements for eons and have considerable "old brass" & accoutrements for the old branches.......
> 
> try:
> http://www.williamscully.ca/



Why didn't I think of that? Funny but completely off-topic side note: I went to the museum in Artillery Park here in Quebec City yesterday, and in the basement, they had a recreation of an 18th-century French soldiers' quarters. The uniforms were beautifully made period uniforms, but they had one problem: the buttons on every single one were Canadian Airborne Regiment, made by William Scully. I had to laugh when I saw 18th century uniforms with buttons emblazoned with a parachute and wings. When you mentioned William Scully, it made me think of that. Anyway, I'll stop digressing the thread now.


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## Kat Stevens (2 Oct 2005)

That's the vibe I got too, George.   But then, I'm misunderstood more often than not too..... >


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Oct 2005)

Me too. I think it may have been the perceived shot at the Reserves that might have done it.


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## geo (2 Oct 2005)

period uniforms from the 18th/.....?
naw - the CAR is not that old and neither is Scully's.

MW Scully's & Sons & JR Gaunts made most of the uniform accessories from WW1 thru to the 70s when Gaunts packed it in and Scully became Wm Scully Ltd.

Airborne buttons huh?.... figures. Would thing that the curator was not military and / or figured that no one would notice.

Shot @ the reserves?...


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## George Wallace (2 Oct 2005)

Wm Scully Ltd.  est. 1877


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## geo (2 Oct 2005)

Yeah... sorry... didn't bother to reserach answer before my last post
Scully & Gaunts were some of the suppliers of accoutrements to the Cdn Militia


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## KevinB (3 Oct 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Me too. I think it may have been the perceived shot at the Reserves that might have done it.


;D
MO-SCRIMINATION


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## Pencil Tech (3 Oct 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> ;D
> MO-SCRIMINATION



That's right! Or MOISM by a MOIST. ;D


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## Ex-Dragoon (7 Oct 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Me too. I think it may have been the perceived shot at the Reserves that might have done it.



That is indeed the case, we don't need another war between the Regs and Reserves


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## q_1966 (18 Oct 2005)

going off topic but there was a post a while back that refered to the officers ranks on the cuff look like airline pilots from westjet, what about bringing back the officers pips (little pins on the shoulder of different variation that represent the rank)


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## RangerRay (18 Oct 2005)

Papke said:
			
		

> going off topic but there was a post a while back that refered to the officers ranks on the cuff look like airline pilots from westjet, what about bringing back the officers pips (little pins on the shoulder of different variation that represent the rank)



I would be in favour of it.  The current officer ranks are too navy.


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## Steel Badger (18 Oct 2005)

Dont forget the rotating High Vis saftey light for all new subalterns.....


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## Danjanou (18 Oct 2005)

Steel Badger said:
			
		

> Dont forget the rotating High Vis saftey light for all new subalterns.....



We could just attach a little plastic propeller to those beanies they issue them at RMC and then duct tape a couple of glow sticks to the propeller blades. ;D


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## geo (18 Oct 2005)

I remember the Officer cadets used to wear a white "band aid" on their shoulder boards....
which is, when you think about it, a fairly proper comparaison.

Problem with the old ranks was that the Majors and the WOs ended up wearing the same crown on their parka slip on.... many a young soldier got a blast for salutin a WO ond not the majors

Required the WOs to get a bigger crown so they would not be mistaken for Majors 
Majors looked after themselves


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## armyvern (18 Oct 2005)

NO!!

You guys MUST vote NO on this. You will not be as successful at becoming cougar meal in the forage cap...and besides they make you look like dorks. This I know... I have seen!! And besides I may one day be out there hunting!! Please please stick with the manly beret


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## Recce41 (18 Oct 2005)

There would be only one three things I would wear. A Blk Beret, Maroon Beret, or Tan Beret. I have a few pics of my father with that Blk and red Forge Cap and BD. 
 Yes bring back the SSF. I could use the jump pay again. Some of the changes should be spec badges on CadPat. IE Wings, EOD, etc. Not over done, just that would be nice. We are the only Army that does not wear them.


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## armyvern (18 Oct 2005)

Recce41 said:
			
		

> There would be only one three things I would wear. A Blk Beret, Maroon Beret, or Tan Beret.



What? No more UN Tours for you?


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## geo (18 Oct 2005)

quote author=Recce41 link=topic=34700/post-283956#msg283956 date=1129681188]
Some of the changes should be spec badges on CadPat. IE Wings, EOD, etc. Not over done, just that would be nice. We are the only Army that does not wear them. 
[/quote]
Matter of fact was at the LF CCWO conference in September; we looked at the wearing of spec badges on cadpat. We tossed around a "ranger" tab that would be worn on the sleve, below the Cdn flag...... pert much all were in favour and this should be submitted to the dress committee at next meeting... intent to apply to spec badges like EOD, Ranger, pathfinder and the like.....
might pass
should pass.................


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## George Wallace (19 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Matter of fact was at the LF CCWO conference in September; we looked at the wearing of spec badges on cadpat. We tossed around a "ranger" tab that would be worn on the sleve, below the Cdn flag...... pert much all were in favour and this should be submitted to the dress committee at next meeting... intent to apply to spec badges like EOD, Ranger, pathfinder and the like.....
> might pass
> should pass.................


So?     Would this be for our "Garrison CADPAT" or our "Field CADPAT"?


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## Recce41 (19 Oct 2005)

It wouldn't matter. They waould be subdued. Remember the old Combat Wings, for the smock. A Blk/green ranger tab, a pair of blk wings with a blk/green leaf. Etc. I hope it goes through. We brought this up for years.


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## geo (19 Oct 2005)

yup, as recce stated,
the Ranger tab we passed around was on a small `tab`that we would sandwich between the Cdn flag velcro... just hangs down from there.

The rules & regs surrounding what & when that medium of display would be used still to come... but at least we`re moving fwd...
There is agreement at the NDHQ level that this is desireable route to follow.


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## George Wallace (19 Oct 2005)

More Velcro!

More holes in gortex.

More badges to remove on a Recce.

 ;D


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## ArmyRick (19 Oct 2005)

I do not think we should be wearing qualification badges on our cadpat. Our DEU are there for us to look sharp and show our accomplishments. OUT.


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## George Wallace (19 Oct 2005)

As the Thread is about bringing back the army Forage / Peak Caps and not BS Badges on the Cadpat, perhaps we should put all them badges on the Peak Caps and give those with a desire to wear them the opportunity to show off all their extra qualifications.    ;D

I guess this thread has reached its' end.


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## old fart (19 Oct 2005)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> I do not think we should be wearing qualification badges on our cadpat. Our DEU are there for us to look sharp and show our accomplishments. OUT.



We are the only Army that I know that does not these days.

I hope they follow through and make the change.

AIRBORNE CHIMO UBIQUE


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## Lance Wiebe (19 Oct 2005)

Man.

How I hated the forage cap.

Bus drivers, parking meter maids, and others had similar caps, they all looked like crap.

May it rest, forever, in peace.

BTW, when Armour was told, back in the 70's, that we would never wear them again, I burnt mine.


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## armyvern (19 Oct 2005)

Lance Wiebe said:
			
		

> Man.
> 
> BTW, when Armour was told, back in the 70's, that we would never wear them again, I burnt mine.



Aren't you some glad then that you didn't go Arty!!  ;D
Nothing against Arty Guys but man them hats look .....  :-\


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Oct 2005)

I think that was covered a few pages back. So I guess this has come full circle, after nine torturous pages  If someone has a truly valid argument to put forward, let the Mods know and we'll reopen it.


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