# Where are the CF sports??



## Biggoals2bdone (19 Jun 2007)

Hey ya'll, 
Well i was checking the Maple Leaf, not to long ago and I saw that there was a few powerlifters in the army, was just wondering if there is a powerlifting federation in the CF or something to that effect, also i remember checking out a page somewhere about a powerlifting or weightlifting contest overseas between the coalition forces and one of our boys did pretty good, so right on, i saw a picture of him lifting in his cadpat pants, combats, a weight belt, a blue sweater and a tuque, if that rings a bell for anyone.

Also was wondering about other sports in the CF, I keep seeing hockey and marathons (sidenote: saw an article about a Capt who had her leg amputated and ran a marathon, well AWESOME for her, GREAT JOB!!!) but im talking about football, volleyball, boxing, weightlifting, MMA, kickboxing, powerlifting, Strongman...anyone know of any CF competitions involving any of these sports??

Any info is much appreciated


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## the 48th regulator (19 Jun 2007)

Hold on a sec here,

You say you currently serve, and you are quite active in the sport that you train in (Congrats on the award in 2005), however you have not come across any sports, competitions, meets or groups while you served?

I find that is hard to beleive, considering your passion about health.

I feel my spidey senses tingling...

dileas

tess


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## Biggoals2bdone (19 Jun 2007)

I haven't competed due to injury, a minor pec tear, and also i competed in the Juniors, therefore my physique was not up to the competition of the Open level, in my opinion.
I took time to build myself up so that i wouldnt be blown away onstage, and I am hopefully going to compete in late 08, early 09.  Have to calculate how much more bulking up I need to do, and then factor in 3-4 months of dieting for contest.

Also I haven't competed in powerlifting yet, as I don't feel my numbers are adequate.
Not that I needed to explain myself, but I just thought I would, to clear the air.

Final note, one doesn't need to compete in sports to be passionate about health or a sport.


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## Gunner98 (20 Jun 2007)

Hey Big Dude:

Have you heard of CFPSA?  :-\

Check it out: http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/Sports/index.asp


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## Biggoals2bdone (20 Jun 2007)

Yes I have seen that before, I didn't remember the acronym because I didn't pay particular attention when I saw it, the problem is there arent any of the sports I mentioned besides Volleyball.

So I was just wondering if there was anything else, inter-unit, inter-element, maybe vs another force (USA maybe) or another program altogether for more diverse sports in the CF.


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## Gunner98 (20 Jun 2007)

Big Dude:

Let's try again!  Check this out: http://www.cism-milsport.org/eng/welcome.html

Click on sports - What you see is what there is - 'elite' International military sports!!


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## Biggoals2bdone (20 Jun 2007)

Gunner

Thanks for the info, but sadly the ones im REALLY interested in are not there, which makes me wonder who was responsible for the powerlifting competition in the middle east. It was between the coalition forces.


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## Gunner98 (20 Jun 2007)

The US Army is big on weight lifting competitions.  

The Maple Leaf, April 25 2007, vol. 10, no 11 article @ http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/aboutus/newsroom_en.aspx?newsid=206&childid=81703392&bhcp=1  

- clearly shows that these CF guys do it outside the CF sports community.


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## Michael OLeary (20 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> Gunner
> 
> Thanks for the info, but sadly the ones im REALLY interested in are not there, which makes me wonder who was responsible for the powerlifting competition in the middle east. It was between the coalition forces.



It was probably a local initiative, not an organized CF sporting event.  Go talk to CFPSA, investigate Base Clubs, you will find that many events are locally organized and run, and that there is less emphasis on trying to run regional and national events in every sport an individual may wish to participate in.


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## Armymedic (24 Jun 2007)

Bodybuilding is not a sport. Powerlifting is training. And just because it is in the Olympics doesn't make it a sport for the CF....

Do me a favour, start a club and help train people to lift properly without hurting themselves.


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## EW (24 Jun 2007)

The powerlifting event that you are thinking of was likely a coalition powerlifting event that was held in Afghanistan a few years back.  I think it was Op Athena roto 1.  It was organized by the U.S. folks in Bagram, and yes Canada did have a few soldiers go up and compete.  Can't remember the results off the top of my head, but it certainly happened.  I wouldn't consider it a CF organized event though.

Cheers.


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## Munxcub (25 Jun 2007)

I think Olympic Weightlifting is a sport that should be practiced by any and all athletes. Nothing better then Snatches and Clean & Jerks for speed and power. Although I may still be all fired up from my O-Lifting coaching certification I took on the weekend...


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## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2007)

MunxCub: O-lifting is damn hard to, and unless you have great natural flexibility and strength to begin with you have to start young to be good, and be strict in your training.
I didn't want to post in this thread because I think someone wants to turn it into a mud slinging contest to get me booted from the forum, so I will just make my points as nicely as I can and be on my merry way.

Powerlifting, is awesome, and also humbling.

Well then to say bodybuilding is not a sport, you must also think that gymnastics, figure skating, Olympic diving,synchro swimming, boxing and any other sport that has points attributed to its competitors by judges are not sports either.  You try telling a gymnast what they do is not a sport.

"WHAT BODYBUILDING JUDGES LOOK FOR:

(1) SYMMETRY - the overall shape of the body. The best bodybuilders have wide shoulders, flaring lats, a torso that tapers down to a small waist, thighs that flare dramatically between hip and knee.
(2) PROPORTION - the balance of one part of the body to the others, of particular body parts to the rest. Is the development of the upper body proportionate to the rest? Is the size of the arms in proportion to the chest and shoulders? Is calf size balanced compared to thighs and arms?
(3) INDIVIDUAL BODY PARTS - how well each body part is shaped and developed. Is there a line between the upper and lower pectorals? Is there a split between the biceps? Are all three heads of the triceps distinct and well-developed? How about the various muscles of the shoulders, the back, the quadriceps and hamstrings? Which body parts are outstanding and which are weak points?
(4) DETAIL AND QUALITY - definition, separation, striations, cross-striations, hardness and muscle detail. How muscular and well-defined is the physique? Is there distinct separation between the pectorals and deltoids, the delts and the arms, the four heads of the quadriceps and the line between the quads and the hamstrings viewed from the side? Are striations and cross-striations clearly visible? Is there "anatomy chart" detail showing in all the important muscle groups?
(5) PRESENTATION - comparison posing and free posing. The ability of the bodybuilders to display physical development to its best advantage both in comparison posing---hitting the compulsory poses during prejudging---and how well designed and executed is the free posing routine.
(6) OVERALL ASSESSMENT - factors such as attitude and comportment on stage, skin tone and quality, grooming, the fit and appropriate design of theposing suit."


"Therefore, if bodybuilding is really a sport, exactly what kind of sport is it?

The answer is that it is indeed a sport of form---just a different kind of form than we are used to dealing with. The form associated with gymnastics is dynamic, a form of movement. But the form involved in bodybuilding is a plastic one.



The term "plastic" in this case, means the molding, shaping or sculpting of physical form. Bodybuilding is often described as the sculpting of the muscles of the body, and this is exactly what it is. When the bodybuilding takes place as part of a sports competition, the ultimate result is judged according to aesthetic standards, just as gymnastics or diving is. This result is achieved by athletic means, a lot of hard, difficult and intense physical training. In fact, the demands upon the body of training and diet programs followed by world-class competition bodybuilders are so incredible that only highly gifted, superbly-conditioned athletes could be expected to bear up under stresses of this magnitude.



World-class bodybuilders are, and have to be, exceptional athletes. Bodybuilding training in the gym is a demanding athletic activity. And it is this training that is directly responsible for shaping and sculpting the body into the final plastic form that will be judged on stage in a bodybuilding competition. The mass, shape, proportion, symmetry, and definition of the physique, the degree of muscle separation, the low body fat and resulting display of striations and "cuts," are all the result of highly strenuous athletic workouts in the gym plus the discipline of following an eating and nutrition program designed to yield maximum muscle mass with a minimum of body fat.



Bodybuilders are sometimes criticized because they become so muscular, develop so much bulk, that other of their athletic abilities suffer. But this simply means they are specialized, just as all elite athletes tend to be. As far as athletic bodies are concerned, "form follows function." You look like what you do. Bodybuilders may not be good marathon runners, but long-distance runners generally can't lift much weight, either. Gymnasts tend to be small, compact and muscular. Discus-throwers are beefy and powerful. Golfers do not succeed because of the height of their vertical leap, and are rarely slam-dunk artists, while all the physical power in the world doesn't help sink a three-foot putt on the final hole of the U.S. Open with the tournament at stake.



So bodybuilders are indeed athletes, the training they go through is highly athletic, the ultimate result, the competition-prepared bodybuilding physique, is a direct consequence of that training, and the plastic form of this physique is what the competitors are judged on in a bodybuilding contest. Therefore, while competition bodybuilding is artistic, it's not an art form; and while it has theatrical and dramatic elements, it is not theater. It's a sport. And it satisfies every criterion as to what an athletic contest or a sport ought to be."
 (Found this little gem, I did not write this)

100m = speed
marathon = endurance
long jumpg = longest jump
High jump = highest jump
Olympic lifting = heaviest weight lifted in chosen lifts
Bodybuilding = muscle mass, proportion, symmetry, definition.
Powerlifting = Heaviest weight lifted in chosen lifts
Gymnastics = technique, grace, accuracy, difficulty.

All of these test/evaluate something that is judged based on some criteria.

But as the final point of contention, we need an agreed upon definition of SPORT, only then can we correctly debate its standing.

"For example, here are some definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary, which not only gives definitions, but describes how the meanings of words have changed over the course of history:

ATHLETE - (derived from words meaning "to contend for a prize")
A competitor in the physical exercises---such as running, leaping, boxing, wrestling---that formed part of the public games in ancient Greece and Rome.

ATHLETIC
(1) Pertaining to an athlete, or to contests in which physical strength is vigorously exercised.
(2) Of the nature of, or befitting, an athlete; physically powerful, muscular, robust.

SPORT
(1) Pleasant pastime; entertainment or amusement; recreation, diversion. (Particularly associated with the taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish.)
(2) Participation in games or exercises, especially those of an athletic character or pursued in the open air.
(3) To engage in, follow, or practice sport, esp. field-sport; to hunt or shoot for sport or amusement."


Quotes from Bill Dobbins. Also check out this http://www.sportsci.org/news/news9803/hatfield.html Entitled Bodybuilding as an Olympic sport, by Dr. Fred Hatfield
http://www.diablobarbell.com/articles/Powerliftingasasport.htm Powerlifting as a sport, by Garret Harper

P.S if you say bodybuilding is not a sport, then you gotta get rid of golf, bowling, darts, and poker from ESPN.


To all others thanks for the helpful comments in my search, maybe one day the CF will have something more my style in terms of sports, till then i'll just do my own thing.


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## TN2IC (26 Jun 2007)

I have to agree to Biggoals2bdone on this one. I did attempt bodybuilding once, but I seen the light and came a powerlifter. Not to put bodybuilding down, it wasn't my thing. I got a few buddies that are still in it. Now as a member of the CF.... cardio should be your first focus. That beep test can haunt some folks.


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## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2007)

TN2IC: what weight class do you lift in?  what are your best meet lifts?


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## Munxcub (26 Jun 2007)

You can develop the flexibility. O-lifts are all about getting the weight overhead, so if you have the flexibility for a proper standing military press as well as a proper squat (below parallel) then you're good to go.You might not become world class but you will be able to do the lifts well enough to add them into your training. They are technical but they are not any harder to learn then doing a proper deadlift or back squat. Plus the power you develop is amazing, seen video of one super heavy lifter (he weighed in at 175 Kg I think...) back squats 1008 lbs and has a vertical leap of 36" or 38"... ridiculous! Plus Olympic level lifters can match the Olympic level sprinters in the first 20-30m (they don't have the conditioning to keep it up for the whole 100m or whatever...) but that's some crazy power. Add that into your usual routine and you'll see some nice improvements.


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## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2007)

Munxcub: yes I totally agree, although, at this moment, I cannot for the life of me do a proper snatch, but I already do incorporate Cleans in my training, as well as standing military press/push press.

Have you ever competed??

The only thing that dissuades me from training with more of these lifts is a) they are very technique based, and take LONG time to get reasonably good at, b) I don't seem to find as many ways to improve them as I do the powerlifting lifts...and c) the fact that many of these lifts are speed and technique based make them ill-suited for bodybuilding purposes, (not saying you can't use them).

I've just started donig cleans, and im getting 155lbs for 8-10reps, I military press (standing) 185-190 so far, but its coming along....sidenote: anyone know where the military press got its name?


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## TN2IC (26 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> TN2IC: what weight class do you lift in?  what are your best meet lifts?




Let's say I love my dead lifts.... and the Ilti use to hate me.  ;D


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## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2007)

TN2IC: YEAH!!!!!!  another deadlift man

Don't get me wrong I love squats and bench, but DEADS are where its at...and to add to that bench...I haven't flat benched in 1 year about.  I only Incline bench.

I've deadlifted 500lbs no straps just chalk, at 200-210...wondering if thats good enough for a meet...I know I have good grip strength (did a wheel barrow competition, won it by carrying 1400lbs in the wheelbarrow for 20ft or was it metres...) my weak spot is the beginning at the bottom of the lift, still though im curious about competing in a meet, but I would have to get my bench up another 25-50lbs I think.

What are you playing around with these days TN2IC?


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## TN2IC (26 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> TN2IC: YEAH!!!!!!  another deadlift man
> 
> Don't get me wrong I love squats and bench, but DEADS are where its at...and to add to that bench...I haven't flat benched in 1 year about.  I only Incline bench.
> 
> ...



Hehehe... that's funny. I am basically the same. I hate the bench. Squats are ok. I love to dive into a good dead lift to blow off some steam. I love freaking out. I max one rep was at 515. I still need work. Try a meet... have GREAT fun. I got a few shirts laying around from previous games.


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## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2007)

Ya I will definitely try a meet sometime, but I will be competing RAW in my first meet, probably WPO, since I want to make sure I really like it and want to keep doing it, being that my main goal is bodybuilding.

But ya I don't want to compete until I can hit 525-550 dead, 405-430 squat, and 315-350 bench...for that I need to start Flat benching though GRRRRRR...Might get back into it, but I haven't Flat bench pressed heavy since I tearing my pec, but I am playing around with 240-250 for reps on incline, so I think I should be ok, but I am NEVER decline benching EVER again, thats how I tore my pec.

The thing with combining bodybuilding and powerlifting, is good and all the powerlifting gives you insane thickness, and just that type of muscle thats not all puffy looking but rock hard (Johny Jackson) but getting the size and weight from bodybuilding makes posting really good numbers in powerlifting difficult lol.

TN2IC: you recommend a federation? or equipment?


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## Munxcub (26 Jun 2007)

Power cleans are great, but I wouldn't worry so much about doing high rep oly-lifts. (meaning more then 5...) doing singles, doubles and triples (with appropriate % 1RM) is how you develop the real explosive power. Snatches are tricky, but lots of fun. The reason for not going over 5 reps, is after that fatigue sets in and form goes to hell, and in these lifts that can be very sketchy. Sort of like in powerlifts, 3-5 reps at max efforts is more efficient at building strength, 10 reps+ is more muscular endurance. 

You could start adding in Snatch pulls (snatch grip deadlift, to shrug and pull bar to nipple height), also clean deads, snatch deads, etc etc. Those pulls done heavy will build mega traps, that's also the tricky part, finishing the pull. Once you get that pull down, it's just a matter of pulling yourself under the bar, and stand up. (as easy as that... yup... )

Oh and no I don't compete (yet) I've just been properly introduced to the oly-lifts. All I knew of them before was from CrossFit.


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## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2007)

The reason I do higher reps is because I train DC aka Doggcrapp, look it up at www.intensemuscle.com

I know its not the best exercise to pick to do rest-paused sets...but I like cleans.


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## Munxcub (26 Jun 2007)

I would say Cleans would be the "safest" to do with less then 100% form only because it doesn't go over your head... mind you someone with more experience could come along and call me stupid for saying so... heh. But it makes sense to me.


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## time expired (27 Jun 2007)

IMHO,Biceps don't make a better infantry soldier ,lung capacity does.As for real sports
in the Canadian military,no money, no time,and little interest by those in power
seems to the reason that military sport has been reduced to, do it your self,on your 
own time sport activeties.In the old days,here I go again,units had boxing ,hockey,ski,
basketball teams to name just a few.These teams competed at Brigade level then 
at Command finally even at inter service level.In Germany the Brigade hockey league
produced some of the finest hockey I have had the privilege to watch.Also in Germany in
other sports such as boxing,skiing,basketball we were able to carry over into the
Brit. system and had quite a few BAOR champs.,and in boxing even a British Army champ.
or two.This all came to an end about the same time as Mr.Hellyer´s new improved
intergrated armed forces.I am not going to claim that the two were connected,however
suspicions remain.Another change that took place at that time was the reduction
of the PTI cadres from a highly professional collection of sportsmen, to social activities
directors,I served as an assistant PTI in the QORofC Depot for a year and a half and
was very impressed by the level of expertice of the PTIs serving there.
All of these sporting activities added tremendously to the unit esprit de corps and to the
 overall morale of the troops,things that seemed to be unimportant to the leadership
that drifted to the top during the Hellyer years.
                  Regards
PS: The Canadian Olympic Biathlon team, in the late 50s early 60s was formed
from members of the Canadian Army.


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## TN2IC (27 Jun 2007)

Me recommend anything? Hmm... I"ll get back to you on that. I got a brain fart now. Check your local gym and see any events... ask around. Most folks in the area of powerlifting are usally friendly.


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## Biggoals2bdone (27 Jun 2007)

Ya I try to keep track of things, here and there, in the powerlifting world, same with Strongman, wish they had these on tv more.

Time Expired: I don't know why you have to equate bodybuilding or powerlifting or any weight training with BICEPS...it's very inaccurate.  Also weight training, improves overall fitness, and the added muscle mass, helps keep you in shape, and burn calories (body composition), again for arguments about bodybuilding and powerlifting as sports, see my previous posts.

Lung Capacity is determined by more then just running.


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## Armymedic (27 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone,
Thank you for that excessively longwinded reply.

Bodybuilding/powerlifting is great for an individual pastime and great training, and for those who do it...if it makes you fit, and you enjoy it, more power to you.

But as a CF sport?

not.


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## Biggoals2bdone (28 Jun 2007)

Well I didn't say I was trying to make it into a CF sport, I was just saying that it is in fact a sport, but to some who don't wish to compete it can be a lifestyle/hobby, otherwise yes its a sport.  Whether or not its a CF sport isn't up to you though, im going to guess.


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## Munxcub (28 Jun 2007)

Well biggy, not to get into another fight with you but...

Body building may be a sport, but so is eating the most hot dogs... I don't see body builders as being particularly "fit" at least in my sense of the word. They may be muscular and low in fat, but "fit" I have my doubts. They are a specialist, and that does not equate to fitness. Take an Ironman competitor, and put him in a contest that doesn't involve long distance running, biking or swimming, he will lose. Same for powerlifters in an endurance event, etc, etc...

Just my $0.02


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