# Military Command Software Center - MCS Personnel (Monitor MASS)



## Help Desk (21 Feb 2015)

MCS Personnel (Monitor MASS) is available on the DWAN and is now used by 50,000 members across DND,  a deployed version NOMAD is now installed on all Ships with the capacity to synchronize the data when the bandwidth permits. The module for PER tracking will be expanded to the Reserve Force as well for FY 2014/15. Updates are available regularly now when you login to the application. Training is also available on DLN now, just do a search for MCS. Constructive criticism and suggestions for improvements are welcome.


----------



## AmmoTech90 (21 Feb 2015)

Constructive criticism: Learn to post a poll with an unbiased question.


----------



## dapaterson (21 Feb 2015)

Has Monitor MASS ever undergone a formal privacy assessment, as is required for all Government of Canada software systems (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=18308)?  If so, where can someone read it?


----------



## Tibbson (21 Feb 2015)

Such assessments are required before the C&A process can be completed in order to even have the software on the DIN.


----------



## DonaldMcL (21 Feb 2015)

Why can't I vote on the fact the UI is terrible, is yet another system that requires constant updating, and is totally unneeded?

Hmm...


----------



## Scott (22 Feb 2015)

BobSlob said:
			
		

> Why can't I vote on the fact the UI is terrible, is yet another system that requires constant updating, and is totally unneeded?
> 
> Hmm...



Because that would hurt somebody's feelings.


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

BobSlob said:
			
		

> Why can't I vote on the fact the UI is terrible, is yet another system that requires constant updating, and is totally unneeded?
> 
> Hmm...



BobSlob

Can you elaborate your statement in ref to Quote "the UI is terrible” I have no idea what you are referring to.

As far as your statement that the System is totally unneeded, suggest you ask the Chief clerks how they love the program for submitting and processing Reserve Employment Opportunities  in the REO module within Monitor MASS and have it published the same day with a simple click on the mouse, ask the members who are looking for those opportunities how it is convenient to find Class A and  Class B employment in one central location both on the Intranet and Internet. Some of you may remember the old days where opportunities took up to one month before they were listed in Routine Orders across each individual Bases and finding opportunities that were still open was next to impossible. 
Reserve employment opportunities Internet site: 
http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/reo-oer/LFC-CFT/default.aspx?lang=eng

Ask the Chief Clerks and Admin Staff also how they like the PER tracking system and what a time saver it is for them and how they can have a summary at their finger tips at all CoC level. 

I think that the numbers speaks for themselves, if it was not needed why 90% of the members within DND are using it, think about it. I could give you hundred more example but I think you get the idea.


----------



## cavalryman (22 Feb 2015)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> Such assessments are required before the C&A process can be completed in order to even have the software on the DIN.



They are indeed required for true corporate systems, but for skunkworks that have friends in the IM Group, many things can be 'overlooked'  :


----------



## Good2Golf (22 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> ...Ask the Chief Clerks and Admin Staff also how they like the PER tracking system and what a time saver it is for them and how they can have a summary at their finger tips at all CoC level.
> 
> I think that the numbers speaks for themselves, if it was not needed why 90% of the members win this DND are using it, think about it. I could give you hundred more example but I think you get the idea.



Help Desk.  It's great that you believe in the product -- it has significant issues though, aside from having been developed from a bottom-up "add-on, followed by add-on, followed by add-on" approach with what many would describe as less than fully integrated into the DND/CAF enterprise IT governance space.  As others have said, MM has a rather unfriendly user interface.  Glad the CF-728 generation worked for you.  My unit did 728s faster with PDF forms.  As well, one shouldn't assume that CCs are fawning all over the program.  Can't say as though my CC or the majority of the clerks were as big fans as some make them out to be.  The CA has said it is the primary unit-level tool, so it was...but that doesn't mean it is the be all to end all.  Leave planning/coord is decent, but many would not call it "seamlessly integrated."  For it to be improved, my constructive comments would be that it needs to be integrated into a Departmentally-maged project framework with full oversight relative to all Departmental IT initiatives, not just something that started life as a good idea somewhere in the bowels of DLCSPM/DLCI and growing to be the patch-king of DND programs.  

As well, your statistics are a bit off...90% of which elements in the CAF?  So we have 55,556 people in the CAF?

Regards
G2G


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> Constructive criticism: Learn to post a poll with an unbiased question.



Thanks, I modified it and reset the vote to 0


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Help Desk.  It's great that you believe in the product -- it has significant issues though, aside from having been developed from a bottom-up "add-on, followed by add-on, followed by add-on" approach with what many would describe as less than fully integrated into the DND/CAF enterprise IT governance space.  As others have said, MM has a rather unfriendly user interface.  Glad the CF-728 generation worked for you.  My unit did 728s faster with PDF forms.  As well, one shouldn't assume that CCs are fawning all over the program.  Can't say as though my CC or the majority of the clerks were as big fans as some make them out to be.  The CA has said it is the primary unit-level tool, so it was...but that doesn't mean it is the be all to end all.  Leave planning/coord is decent, but many would not call it "seamlessly integrated."  For it to be improved, my constructive comments would be that it needs to be integrated into a Departmentally-maged project framework with full oversight relative to all Departmental IT initiatives, not just something that started life as a good idea somewhere in the bowels of DLCSPM/DLCI and growing to be the patch-king of DND programs.
> 
> As well, your statistics are a bit off...90% of which elements in the CAF?  So we have 55,556 people in the CAF?
> 
> ...



G2G

A DND 728 for a Unit/Ship/Sqn can be generated in the PER tracking module with all all the information listed on the form (SN, Rank, Name, etc) regardless of the no of PERs and in the order required by DMCSS Ottawa in less time than it would take your Chief Clerk to type in the mailing address on a blank form. The big advantage beside the obvious time saver is that there is no typo and once the Send PERs is apply the PERs Summary for the Unit/Ship/Sqn is automatically update and available to the CoC and DMCSS for reporting purposes. Once DMCSS receive the shipment the status of each member's PER is changed to Received by DMCSS and there is no requirement for them to send back a copy to acknowledge receipt as it has been received electronically. The PER Tracking is mandatory for the RCN, C Army and this year all MILPERS COM and CMP Units/Orgs have been directed to use PER Tracking, the RCAF have left it optional, last FY 39,000 PERs were submitted through using the PER Tracking module.


----------



## DAA (22 Feb 2015)

Yup, I think your "statistical" numbers are slightly off.

I am a Chief Clerk, use MM strictly for the REO component and find the rest of the platform confusing, hard to navigate and therefore, pretty much useless (ie; it doesn't save me any time in my job and tends to create work).  And if "90%" of the CF are using this software, it's probably because someone in their CoC, has "ordered" them to do so.

Oh, big deal that it saves you from having to generate/print a 728!  You spent all this money for that?  Also, the PER tracking is not mandatory, we haven't been "ordered" to use it and we are not an RCAF Unit.  Even if they told me to use it, I wouldn't!


----------



## donaldk (22 Feb 2015)

I use it for some tracking of pers in my unit, which is helpful in a small unit where I don't have an RMS clerk to run queries in HRMS and calling BOR with petty inquiries would be a nuisance.


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

DAA said:
			
		

> Yup, I think your "statistical" numbers are slightly off.
> 
> I am a Chief Clerk, use MM strictly for the REO component and find the rest of the platform confusing, hard to navigate and therefore, pretty much useless.  And if "90%" of the CF are using this software, it's probably because someone in their CoC, has "ordered" them to do so.
> 
> Oh, big deal that it saves you from having to generate/print a 728!  You spent all this money for that?



Did you know that the implementation of REO - Reserve Employment Opportunity module is saving 18 PY in the C Army alone since 2009, do the math. If you took a serious look at what our small team is providing for the CAF i.e. MCS Tasking CFTPO, MCS Ranges  (CFRIS), MCS Personnel (Monitor MASS), MCS Establishment, (establishment changes, CFFET, MACR), MEMS, Training Tracker,OJT/OJPR) Ship Management, Sea days, Jumps, Clinician's time, Activity Management, IBTS, Parade State, Readyness Summary, etc you would quickly realise that the service we provide is very much essential and it cost a fraction of what a corporate system would.

The PER tracking system return on investment was 10 folds in the very first year in 2012 in freeing Chief Clerk and Orderly Room / Admin Staff more time to provide support to their members rather than compiling statistics in excel spread sheets for the COC, think about that for a minute, isn't it what everyone has been asking for.


----------



## turretmonster (22 Feb 2015)

Sweet Gebbus, just stop the propaganda. 

TM


----------



## Good2Golf (22 Feb 2015)

"return on investment was 10 folds (sic) in the first year"

Okay, I'll bite.  ROI for what 'investment'?  Vote 1 O&M resources? Vote 5 capital?  PYs?  

What was the baseline and what measures of performance and measures of effectiveness were used to end up with a determination of achieving a 10 fold "freeing" of CCs and OR staff? 

18 PY savings?  So how many dedicated PYs were specifically supporting REO publication before MM?

No offence intended, but you are throwing around figures about how much Monitor Mass had improved things and frankly, having seen aspects of Departmental efficiencies (or lack thereof), I am somewhat skeptical that there are indeed all the savings of resources and much greater efficiencies that you purport.  MM is a tool, just as is HRMS, or RPSR, or DRMIS, etc...

 :2c:

p.s.  You should add a "I have used Monitor Mass in the past and have found it not to be as useful as some make it out to be." option.


----------



## dapaterson (22 Feb 2015)

Maybe HHQs need to stop asking for useless information.  Having computers generate useless information doesn't change its utility one bit.

As well, you still haven't answered the question about the Privacy Impact Assessment.  It's required - where is it?

Plus, any database operated by the government that contains personal information has certain rules and regulations pertaining to data retention and the right of individuals to access that data - is Monitor MASS and its associated applications compliant with those regulations?  Or is it a bunch of folks hacking away, ignoring the rules, and one bad data leak away from disaster?


(Have user access controls been improved?  I remember someone was able, with no audit trail to track them down, to go in and rename 1st and 2nd BNs PPCLI as "Princess Patricia's Canadian Mechanized Infantry".  If foundational data isn't safe from folks making changes and joking around, how can users be certain of data integrity?)


----------



## AmmoTech90 (22 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> Did you know that the implementation of REO - Reserve Employment Opportunity module is saving 18 PY in the C Army alone since 2009, do the math.



The math is: 18 PY/6 years=3 people.  How many PY have been spent developing MM that could be employed in operational slots, be they 1st line unit pers or civvies in maintenance driving down the VOR rate?  How much money has been spent on contractors that could have been used for training?


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> The math is: 18 PY/6 years=3 people.  How many PY have been spent developing MM that could be employed in operational slots, be they 1st line unit pers or civvies in maintenance driving down the VOR rate?  How much money has been spent on contractors that could have been used for training?



It is not 18 PY for 6 years, it is 18 PY per year, most of those were personnel dedicated to drafttingREO messages, sending them thru the Message Center and publishing then in Routine Orders, that requirement was replaced by the automated publishing process. These figures were provided to us by the Area HQ back then.


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Maybe HHQs need to stop asking for useless information.  Having computers generate useless information doesn't change its utility one bit.
> 
> As well, you still haven't answered the question about the Privacy Impact Assessment.  It's required - where is it?
> 
> ...



You will find the Privacy Impact Assessment on SharePoint 

I am not even going to reply to your other questions as I find them unethical and degrading.


----------



## Robert0288 (22 Feb 2015)

I have never seen a current REO message in Routine Orders.  Ever.  They've always been on the REO website, which I found usually is up to date.  Mind you I've never been on the processing side of the equation.  But how does limiting the information to a DWAN network, which you can only access at work, help reservists apply for Reserve Employment Opportunities?

Fill out any paperwork you need.  Attach a copy of your Resume, and MPRR which you can download off EMAA and save to your civy email.  Submit by email.  All from the comfort of my own home without needing to travel to an armory, log in, use a computer that might other wise be needed.  From my understanding, would you now need to make a day trip in to the armory just to look at potential employment?

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/reo-oer/index.aspx?lang=eng


----------



## Help Desk (22 Feb 2015)

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> I have never seen a current REO message in Routine Orders.  Ever.  They've always been on the REO website, which I found usually is up to date.  Mind you I've never been on the processing side of the equation.  But how does limiting the information to a DWAN network, which you can only access at work, help reservists apply for Reserve Employment Opportunities?
> 
> Fill out any paperwork you need.  Attach a copy of your Resume, and MPRR which you can download off EMAA and save to your civy email.  Submit by email.  All from the comfort of my own home without needing to travel to an armory, log in, use a computer that might other wise be needed.  From my understanding, would you now need to make a day trip in to the armory just to look at potential employment?
> 
> http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/reo-oer/index.aspx?lang=eng



Robert
Not so long ago, 6 years to be exact if someone wanted to find an Opportunity they had to go to the BOR or Unit OR and filters though paper copies that Orderly Staff had printed from the Routine Orders and placed in a Binders on the counter, if you had access to the DWAN you needed to go to each different Base's website routine orders and their was no way of telling if the opportunities were filled or not, so often you asked you Chief Clerk to send a message in order to apply for a job that may have been filled already. The Reserve Employment Opportunities you see on the Internet are generated on both the Intranet and Internet simultanously from the REO Module within Monitor MASS where you can all the Jobs by Rank, MOS, Region, etc. The way you submit your nomination from home or work to your Chief Clerk is exactly the way it was intended and is not changing.


----------



## cupper (22 Feb 2015)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Maybe HHQs need to stop asking for useless information.  Having computers generate useless information doesn't change its utility one bit.
> 
> As well, you still haven't answered the question about the Privacy Impact Assessment.  It's required - where is it?
> 
> ...





			
				Help Desk said:
			
		

> You will find the Privacy Impact Assessment on SharePoint
> 
> I am not even going to reply to your other questions as I find then unethical and degrading.



Setting aside the personal commentary at the end of the questions, they are still valid questions and do deserve an answer.


----------



## Brad Sallows (22 Feb 2015)

>I am not even going to reply to your other questions as I find then unethical and degrading.

Ha! I wish someone would try that one out on me sometime where I work when I raise a question about operational or personal security information shortcomings.


----------



## turretmonster (22 Feb 2015)

Epic fail......   :facepalm:


----------



## Bird_Gunner45 (22 Feb 2015)

Monitor mass, to me, represents a lot of what is wrong in the military. We used to trust pl comds/pl wo and coy/bty/Sqn staff to, you know, know their people and stuff. All I use it for is to do leave passes, and that's because the CoC makes us (and to be fair the PDF file or god forbid hand written forms were easier). Pdrs/ platoon comds handbook entries off of it are, IMHO, useless and in a way degrading as we are saying we don't trust people to track their own pers (since leadership is hard, but spreadsheets are easy!). 

 For the money we've dumped into this Ottawa based, impossible to use, micro management experiment we could have done any number of trg/procurement. Even the pips aren't this big of a waste of money.


----------



## DonaldMcL (22 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> BobSlob
> 
> Can you elaborate your statement in ref to Quote "the UI is terrible” I have no idea what you are referring to.



Sure, the User Interface is terrible. Nothing is laid out logically and you end up mindlessly clicking around until you figure it out... good luck remembering the 34 click pattern (okay, maybe a slight exaggeration) for next time.


----------



## Scott (22 Feb 2015)

Help Desk, a thicker skin might be in order.


----------



## Kat Stevens (22 Feb 2015)

I was always taught that if you thought you might not like the answer, better off not asking the question.  Just sayin'


----------



## Tibbson (22 Feb 2015)

BobSlob said:
			
		

> Sure, the User Interface is terrible. Nothing is laid out logically and you end up mindlessly clicking around until you figure it out... good luck remembering the 34 click pattern (okay, maybe a slight exaggeration) for next time.



I had to use it for limited purposes in my last posting and like you I found that it wasn't laid out very well and once I did find something it was hard to get back into it again in the future.  For what it was worth it was much easier for me to pull up a few PDFs for leave passes and other forms, PASS/VFS for any pers info I needed and/or to go into a simple to use spreadsheet for other tracking.  Once I was posted from the Unit I put this app out of my mind and have never missed it.


----------



## Towards_the_gap (22 Feb 2015)

It's been 2 years now that I've been out, and I haven't thought of that spiteful program once. It never once helped me do my job better. I knew my troops and where they were and only suffered MM enough to print leave passes for them. It seemed like a ridiculous duplication of Peoplesoft or whatever wizardry the clerks were using at the time, and rather than save 'X' resources as Helpdesk claims, ended up wasting more time as personnel tried to navigate the awful interface when they should have been away from their desks conducting/planning training, not feeding bytes of data to the mainframe.

I'm curious. What serious dysfunction in the day-to-day administration of the CF did MM solve?


----------



## PuckChaser (22 Feb 2015)

I like it. Its unwieldly, and looks like it was designed to operate on Windows 98 SE, but once I found all the stuff I needed and saved a workspace, I find it useful on a day to day basis. The single best feature is that career courses are placed in their 6 months out, so I can actually plan more than the 2 weeks "surprise, X is going on his PLQ" that normally happened.

It needs A LOT of work on functionality to be accepted CAF wide. I compare it to the CI: Signallers loved it, but everyone else thought it was a useless POS because it had way more information than the average person needed. MonitorMass looks like its trying desperately to duplicate everything HRMS does, and drop it down to the Sect Comd level. That's fine, but do we really need 2 separate systems that don't talk together properly?


----------



## Towards_the_gap (22 Feb 2015)

Moreover, does a section commander need that much info?


----------



## PuckChaser (22 Feb 2015)

No, there's a crapload in there that isn't needed. That's what adds to the confusion on using it, if I just want a leave pass or to check someone's security clearance date, there's 16 tabs I need to sift through.


----------



## Tibbson (22 Feb 2015)

Seems clear now why 78.6% of the people who took the time to answer the lop sided pole don't like the program.


----------



## BC Old Guy (22 Feb 2015)

I found this program very useful when I was working at the unit level.  I could see how it would be useful at the sub-unit level as well, and wish it was available earlier.  However, like all programs, it takes a bit of feeding, and Garbage In - Garbage Out.


----------



## Gunner98 (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> MCS Personnel (Monitor MASS) is available on the DWAN and is now used by 50,000 members across DND



Are there 50,000 active current user accounts or 50,000 people who actually use it regularly? There is a big difference!


----------



## Tibbson (23 Feb 2015)

The number of user accounts hardly equates to the number of people who use it regularly.  I know many people, myself included, who have accounts but who haven't bothered with Monitor MASS for some time.


----------



## DAA (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> Did you know that the implementation of REO - Reserve Employment Opportunity module is saving 18 PY in the C Army alone since 2009, do the math. If you took a serious look at what our small team is providing for the CAF i.e. MCS Tasking CFTPO, MCS Ranges  (CFRIS), MCS Personnel (Monitor MASS), MCS Establishment, (establishment changes, CFFET, MACR), MEMS, Training Tracker,OJT/OJPR) Ship Management, Sea days, Jumps, Clinician's time, Activity Management, IBTS, Parade State, Readyness Summary, etc you would quickly realise that the service we provide is very much essential and it cost a fraction of what a corporate system would.
> 
> The PER tracking system return on investment was 10 folds in the very first year in 2012 in freeing Chief Clerk and Orderly Room / Admin Staff more time to provide support to their members rather than compiling statistics in excel spread sheets for the COC, think about that for a minute, isn't it what everyone has been asking for.



Still, all the systems that you mention above feed data to MM while MM doesn't feed any data back, so now you have MM which is in effect a "stove pipe" system that has created duplication of effort and in turn costs PY's.  CFTPO, HRMS, etc, etc still require data input and are the ONLY recognized "source" of official information.

Like they say, even if you put lip stick on a pig, it's still just pig.


----------



## AmmoTech90 (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> It is not 18 PY for 6 years, it is 18 PY per year, most of those were personnel dedicated to drafttingREO messages, sending them thru the Message Center and publishing then in Routine Orders, that requirement was replaced by the automated publishing process. These figures were provided to us by the Area HQ back then.



So that would be 18 FTEs.  And you haven't answered the question about how many FTEs the MM project takes up or how much it costs.

*You will find the Privacy Impact Assessment on SharePoint * 

Please provide a link because I've looked and searched on your sharepoint and haven't been able to find a file name that included privacy or assessment.  There are no documents in the Official Documents directory.  Your SOCD is just templates as is your PRICIE analysis.  A project being run like this is why the CAF gets a bad reputation for project management.


----------



## Help Desk (23 Feb 2015)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> So that would be 18 FTEs.  And you haven't answered the question about how many FTEs the MM project takes up or how much it costs.
> 
> It took approximately 6 months to build the Reserve Employment Opportunity - REO module within MCS Personnel, this was not a project but a Chief Military Personnel CMP/DRSM/NDHQ PRL, DLPM initiative paid in full by the C Army and used across the CAF.  The web portion  was developed by  the army web masters in Kingston who did an excellent job and are now changing it to reflect the new web standard. This module has been running flawlessly since 2009 on auto pilot with the odd tweeking here and there. So I let you make your own appreciation and assessment on the saving or lack thereof for this particular module and if you are not happy with my answer you can always take it up with CMP and the Commander of the C Army. As far has how much the suite of MCS applications cost, this is none of your business, who do you think you are to question the decisions that our leaders takes. Our team is founded by the C Army with an SLA with the RCN and CFRG. I am sure they would be very happy to hear from you as to how they should run their Command.
> The short version of the answer is we have one programmer working on MCS Personnel (Monitor MASS)and one on NOMAD which is the deployed version on Ships.


----------



## DAA (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> AmmoTech90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (23 Feb 2015)

"who do you think you are to question the decisions that our leaders take"

Omg that's priceless. Thank you. You've made my night


----------



## cupper (23 Feb 2015)

DAA said:
			
		

> You weren't even able to respond to a question properly in such a simple forum.  You quoted someone and placed your own answer within those quotes     :rofl:
> 
> You are trying to promote the use of Monitor Mass and can't manage simple HTML??  Now I'm really worried......



I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. It may be an issue with the quote function as it did the same thing to me and to you. :nod: 

And I assume the mods deleted mine. I'll admit it was a little over the line. 

(Digging out micrometer to measure how much)


----------



## PuckChaser (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> As far has how much the suite of MCS applications cost, this is none of your business, who do you think you are to question the decisions that our leaders takes.



If I can look up exactly how much a project costs for boots on the Capability Investment Database, I sure as hell should be able to look up what a piece of software cost to develop.

Look, this place could have been a goldmine of user info for you on MonitorMass, and how to improve the whole suite. Instead, you came in here dead-set on your program being the end-all and be-all piece of software, spouting propaganda and leaving biased poll questions. You'll note on this forum there's a lot of people who ask questions about decisions made by higher. You'll also note that the moderators take a fairly firm hand on them if the questions broach into the realm of insubordination. 

Maybe you need to take a step back, stop protecting your pet project, and approach this place as an excellent source of user feedback for you to make your software better. Otherwise, you're going to turn even more people away from using MM.


----------



## McG (23 Feb 2015)

Gents, 
Some are starting to make this personal.  Engage the subject matter, not the person.


Cheers, 
The staff.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Feb 2015)

MM, the bane of my day... a system that doesn't talk to the other systems and only polls once a week or so....and activities created in MM eventually disappear after some time instead archiving.....


----------



## SupersonicMax (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk,

The reason you have 50000 users in MM is because chains of command across Canada decided that all they people shall have a MM account.  The reality is probably more around 10% of those 50K actually use it.  I know I don't and most people at my unit don't, even if we all have an account.

As far as PY goes, we have a couple of guys administering MM at different levels on our Wing.  

Bottom-up solutions work at the local levels but because of the time and effort required to standardize and adapt such a solution at the National level, they rarely work...


----------



## Tibbson (23 Feb 2015)

I also can't help but wonder how many of those 50k have retired/released and their accounts still exist.  

Bottom line seems to be that most people who have commented seem to think the application isn't worth the time or effort to use and that there are other applications that do the job better, with less confusion and more efficiently.  What would make it better or is it an idea whose time hasn't come yet?


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (23 Feb 2015)

The problem with Monitor MASS is the same with all the other systems the military uses.  It was planned in isolation with interoperability of systems being a complete after thought.  The systems themselves are also TOO COMPLICATED for the average user to ever utilize them to their full potential.  

At Google they have a saying, "Focus on the user and all else will follow".  This is something the CAF would be wise to learn.

Help Desk, I believe Monitor MASS has the potential to be a good system; however, the User Interface (UI) needs a major overhaul as it's aesthetically unpleasing and difficult to navigate if you aren't computer savvy.  A computer program that amounts to what is essentially a database should not be so complicated that it requires a course to teach a person how to use it.  Ditto for Sharepoint, HRMS, ACIMS and every other piece of software the military uses. 

Improve the UI and you will go a long way to quieting some of the detractors.


----------



## Help Desk (23 Feb 2015)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> MM, the bane of my day... a system that doesn't talk to the other systems and only polls once a week or so....and activities created in MM eventually disappear after some time instead archiving.....



You are correct on one fact, we get a download from PeopleSoft only once a week but this is about to change and we will get a daily update in the near future.
We get a daily update from FMS for driver's qualifications and AF Authorization for the RCAF.
Nominations entered in CFTPO are displayed real time in the member's calendar, Unit Agenda, Parade state, activity screen, MPRR, MPRR Progression, MPRR Timeline, UER and PDR.
In the Activity management module we archive the activities after 2 months, to see activities before that all one needs to do is change the activity calendar date and refresh the screen, we have activities going back to 10 years ago.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify this for you.


----------



## Navy_Pete (23 Feb 2015)

I think the one thing I do like in MM is the new MPRR; it's much easier to read as it uses sentence case and generally a little nicer layout.  However, the PERMON team is using only EMAA output at my unit, so even that is wasted.

Maybe it would be nice if someone could tweak the EMAA output to not be a blinding POS THAT WON'T STOP YELLING AT ME! 

(In an unrelated tangent, I thought messages were going to sentence format in 2012?!?  May be just me, but I can never get used to the all caps writing; I find it jarring and a bit hard to follow where I am reading).

There is a lot of good info there but the interface is hard to navigate properly, and there is a lot of element specific items I just don't care about.

I guess it's nice if I want to double check someone's leave or something similar, but sometimes, that sort of function is 'sound powered', particularly as MM won't be up to date.  The only real reason for me to use MM is to submit a leave pass as our CoC requires it, and even then that needs to get printed, signed, then manually entered into HRMS, so it's a bit of a waste of time.  Also, it's down often enough that the old hand filled in CF98s are not uncommon.


----------



## Help Desk (23 Feb 2015)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> I also can't help but wonder how many of those 50k have retired/released and their accounts still exist.
> 
> Bottom line seems to be that most people who have commented seem to think the application isn't worth the time or effort to use and that there are other applications that do the job better, with less confusion and more efficiently.  What would make it better or is it an idea whose time hasn't come yet?



MM accounts are position based and setup with appropriate privileges for the member occupying that position, when someone is posted the account is automatically locked until the replacement take over at which time the  account is reanable by the MM Unit OPI 
Accounts which are inactive for 9 months are automatically deleted.


----------



## PuckChaser (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> You are correct on one fact, we get a download from PeopleSoft only once a week but this is about to change and we will get a daily update in the near future.
> We get a daily update from FMS for driver's qualifications and AF Authorization for the RCAF.
> Nominations entered in CFTPO are displayed real time in the member's calendar, Unit Agenda, Parade state, activity screen, MPRR, MPRR Progression, MPRR Timeline, UER and PDR.
> In the Activity management module we archive the activities after 2 months, to see activities before that all one needs to do is change the activity calendar date and refresh the screen, we have activities going back to 10 years ago.
> Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify this for you.



This is the kind of stuff we're looking for. I personally love the FMS feature, saves me phone calls to Tpt all the time to check quals.


----------



## DAA (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> You are correct on one fact, we get a download from PeopleSoft only once a week but this is about to change and we will get a daily update in the near future.
> We get a daily update from FMS for driver's qualifications and AF Authorization for the RCAF.
> Nominations entered in CFTPO are displayed real time in the member's calendar, Unit Agenda, Parade state, activity screen, MPRR, MPRR Progression, MPRR Timeline, UER and PDR.
> In the Activity management module we archive the activities after 2 months, to see activities before that all one needs to do is change the activity calendar date and refresh the screen, we have activities going back to 10 years ago.
> Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify this for you.



So you raised this question with what I hope was an open mind but I'm still thinking you're not hearing what the masses are saying to you and you continually respond back with the "why MM is a good thing" and what it does for you.      :facepalm:

You "get a download from PeopleSoft once a week".  That means that the information in your system, is only reliable/valid for maybe 24-48 hours at best out of 7 days.

You get "daily" updates from FMS for driver quals.  That's why we have a Tpt Rep who has FMS access/privileges, which is required if you want to book a vehicle these days.

Do we really need to see "real time" CFTPO activity?  I nominate someone, deals done.  Why would I need to see it anymore?  To make me feel guilty?

Unit Agenda, Parade state, activity screen, MPRR, MPRR Progression, MPRR Timeline, UER and PDR.  No idea what any of these things are, I wouldn't even want to try and find this stuff as it's of little or no relevance to me.  Activity Management????  Your kidding right???


----------



## turretmonster (23 Feb 2015)

Just what would one be nomination in CFTPO for anyways? Just wondering.... is it for augmentee positions or for crse vacancies?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Feb 2015)

turretmonster said:
			
		

> Just what would one be nomination in CFTPO for anyways? Just wondering.... is it for augmentee positions or for crse vacancies?



CFTPO - Canadian Forces Taskings, Plans and Operations... can be used for course nominations in addition to MITE, but CFTPO is most often used for equipment/vehicles, taskings (i.e. augmentee), and major exercises...


----------



## Help Desk (23 Feb 2015)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> I think the one thing I do like in MM is the new MPRR; it's much easier to read as it uses sentence case and generally a little nicer layout.  However, the PERMON team is using only EMAA output at my unit, so even that is wasted.
> 
> Maybe it would be nice if someone could tweak the EMAA output to not be a blinding POS THAT WON'T STOP YELLING AT ME!
> 
> ...



One of the main reason that your CoC wants you to generate your Leave Passes and activity outside your day to day work is because it automatically update the Parade State , Unit agenda and it detect any conflicts when your Ops and training cell adds you to an activity in activity management or nominates you against a CFTPO tasking.
When the CoC is looking for someone with specific skills and qualifications for a specific tasking they use the Best Sourcing option in CFTPO and it help them filter out pers that have enter their leave in the Leave planner or have enter their activities, information entered once and used in many situations, it's a win win solution


----------



## turretmonster (23 Feb 2015)

No one should be nominating anyone to anything outside of MITE for crse admin. Ever. Duplication of effort.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (23 Feb 2015)

turretmonster said:
			
		

> No one should be nominating anyone one to anything outside of MITE for crse admin. Ever. Duplication of effort.



5 Div uses both for certain LHQ/ decentralized courses I guess mainly for pers admin....


----------



## Help Desk (23 Feb 2015)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Are there 50,000 active current user accounts or 50,000 people who actually use it regularly? There is a big difference!



The average is between 10,000 to 12,000 distinct login/Users each day,  some  Users connect everyday while others only connect once a week or once a month, so you can't say that only 12,000 individuals use MM because it's not always the same people that login everyday. 
Once connected you can find the stats by clicking on Help , Weblink and select MCS Personnel website.


----------



## Carbon-14 (23 Feb 2015)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I like it. Its unwieldly, and looks like it was designed to operate on Windows 98 SE, but once I found all the stuff I needed and saved a workspace, I find it useful on a day to day basis. The single best feature is that career courses are placed in their 6 months out, so I can actually plan more than the 2 weeks "surprise, X is going on his PLQ" that normally happened.
> 
> It needs A LOT of work on functionality to be accepted CAF wide. I compare it to the CI: Signallers loved it, but everyone else thought it was a useless POS because it had way more information than the average person needed. MonitorMass looks like its trying desperately to duplicate everything HRMS does, and drop it down to the Sect Comd level. That's fine, but do we really need 2 separate systems that don't talk together properly?



I agree 100%.  I use MM alot and I'm quite comfortable with it.  The amount of data I can access has been extremely helpful in Ops at a Reserve Unit.  But there is way too much crammed into the interface.  The workspaces did go a long way to help, but to me it shows it probably should have been broken up into several applications.  The vast majority of people will have no need for most of the functionality and they're likely to get frustrated finding what they could actually use.

The on-line help is in desperate need of a search function.  I don't know what resolution the site was designed around but it looks terrible and its a pain to use

I think the problems mentioned with Activity Management show exactly how unfriendly the user experience is.  Activities disappearing without explanation with no real indication of how to retrieve them will completely turn off the user.  Once they've reached that state using the program is a chore and they'll likely turn other people off the program.

Very few of the clerks I've talked to use MM, the only one that I know of only uses it because I suggested it and helped her through it.  

Analytics holds a wealth of data but there's no explanation what the different Applications, Query Classes, and Query mean.  I generally just try a few different options until I find what I need.  Most people will not invest that kind of time.

Help Desk: Where can I submit bug reports to?

Why on earth can't I sort REOs by employment location??


----------



## DAA (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> The average is between 10,000 to 12,000 distinct login/Users each day,  some  Users connect everyday while others only connect once a week or once a month, so you can't say that only 12,000 individuals use MM because it's not always the same people that login everyday.



Which seems to coincide with the results of your "Survey" above which so far says that "20%" of the CF actually use MM.  60% don't or won't use it and the other 20% have no idea what it is.


----------



## Help Desk (23 Feb 2015)

Carbon-14 said:
			
		

> I agree 100%.  I use MM alot and I'm quite comfortable with it.  The amount of data I can access has been extremely helpful in Ops at a Reserve Unit.  But there is way too much crammed into the interface.  The workspaces did go a long way to help, but to me it shows it probably should have been broken up into several applications.  The vast majority of people will have no need for most of the functionality and they're likely to get frustrated finding what they could actually use.
> 
> The on-line help is in desperate need of a search function.  I don't know what resolution the site was designed around but it looks terrible and its a pain to use
> 
> ...



Thanks for your feedback, it is much appreciated. You should submit your bug report through your Division/Wing MM OPIs by clicking on Help , Email the Help desk, if you Org does not have an OPI you can send it to us directly by selecting email the Main Help Desk

Thanks, we will fix the sort on the employment location


----------



## Carbon-14 (23 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> Thanks for your feedback, it is much appreciated. You should submit your bug report through your Division/Wing MM OPIs by clicking on Help , Email the Help desk, if you Org does not have an OPI you can send it to us directly by selecting email the Main Help Desk
> 
> Thanks, we will fix the sort on the employment location



Help Desk, thanks, I will try submitting them through the appropriate OPI.  And for clarification, I meant you can't sort by employment location on the REO website.  I believe this woks correctly in MM.


----------



## Sf2 (24 Feb 2015)

Maybe the one singular function that we are all REQUIRED to use could be more obvious than a little party favor icon (some of my guys are convinced its a palm tree - but to suggest we all go south while on leave would be ludicrous).


----------



## Help Desk (24 Feb 2015)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> CFTPO - Canadian Forces Taskings, Plans and Operations... can be used for course nominations in addition to MITE, but CFTPO is most often used for equipment/vehicles, taskings (i.e. augmentee), and major exercises...



Thanks for your reply, you forgot to mention Operations and Naval Deployment. Every time a Ship goes at Sea bulk nominations are entered in CFTPO from Monitor Mass and Sea days are automatically capture for each members. The Sea days module was build in Sept 2011 eliminating the need for the Navy to maintain an access database which was very labor intensive.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (24 Feb 2015)

Help Desk said:
			
		

> Thanks for your reply, you forgot to mention Operations and Naval Deployment. Every time a Ship goes at Sea bulk nominations are entered in CFTPO from Monitor Mass and Sea days are automatically capture for each members. The Sea days module was build in Sept 2011 eliminating the need for the Navy to maintain an access database which was very labor intensive.



I didn't forget, I didn't know about that part...


----------



## brihard (3 Mar 2015)

As the Ops/Trg NCO / Man of Many Hats / RSM's bitch at my reserve unit a couple years back, I was quite likely the only person who found MM useful. And actually I found it quite useful- I was one of our trainers and god users' for the regiment, and it was excellent for tracking where all of our troops were in terms of career courses, or quickly generating a list of who was qualified for x, y, or z. But I was one of 150 people, and probably the only one who used it regularly or found it worth the effort. I'm also quite computer savvy and can just start friggin with a new piece of software and have it all figured out within an hour. And I would usually take the data I could quickly access in MM, and spend some time turning it into Excel charts/displays that the bosses could simply look at and immediately 'get'.

I can speak only to my experience as one guy doing random ops work, course nominations, etc, but I very much perceived that I was the only guy in the unit who found it worth the time. Very useful software for a small minority of us, pain in the ass imposition for the rest. Just my opinion, but I'll damned well stand by it.


----------



## McG (8 Mar 2015)

The MM parade state gives PCAT, TCAT and med chit.  Unfortunately, people can overlap in more than one of these and there is no aggregating column to indicate the true total (ie. filtering for duplicates).


----------



## CountDC (20 Mar 2015)

I like monitor mass, use it almost every day and we have been generating access for more members every month right down to the section commanders as they are asking for it.  We just gave all MCpls and above access so they can view their members and add them to activities.  I use it to generate most reports and the clerks have found it great as I no longer hassle them for information everytime I need to generate a report as I simply get the information out of mm.

PERs - we have been directed to use it for Reg F only.  No idea why we are not using the Reserve part.  Quite happy to let the system generate the 728s.  

UI - haven't checked but use to be able to set your own layouts with unique names so you didn't have a bunch of useless to you stuff. Can you still do that?  

My biggest complaints are:

Forms are not always up to date so can not be used.

for Reserve Force Members I can not generate a paysheet that will have all the members on one, instead it prints a seperate paysheet for each member.  I did submit this to the help desk and the reply was to do exactly what I stated I was doing which didnt work.

as the MM Admin I can not give my clerks restrictive access to the unit as a whole and then give them different access to the sub-units.  For example I want them to have view access to the entire regiment and then be able to change mbrs information only for those within the sub-unit they are assigned to.  System gives in error message "You cannot create a Login Organization within an existing Login Organization".   I can accomplish my goal only if I set each sub-unit including the RHQ and Admin seperately.  Oh - and if I am the Admin how can someone else in the unit have higher access rights than me??

SPEED - real slow when you have a CO looking for some info needed now and you are staring at a little spinner while the system takes minutes for every action.

i agree with prior post - what is that symbol for the leave??


----------

