# Converting to different aircraft types....



## zorro (1 Feb 2007)

Hey guys,

I just had a question regarding transfering to different aircraft. Is it possible throughout your career to move from one aircraft type to another? (I'm assuming rotary wing, perhaps to other helis but not back to a fixed wing). For example, could one trained on a CF18 move to a transport or SAR role? I tried to find some info on the forums here on this with no luck...

Also, at this point in my case I'm more interested in the transport world. Assuming I make it to that point, do you generally put your time in on a Herc before they'll let you touch the Airbus? Can you fly Auroras and still end up on an Airbus later on?  Just a hypothetical example, but I'm really interested to know how it works, or if it is even allowed for that matter...

Thanks for any info.


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## eurowing (1 Feb 2007)

Short answer....   yes.   I have gone from hercs to 707s, F-18, Griffon AWACS and now the mighty Buffalo.  Transport to fighters to SAR and others in between.


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## C1Dirty (1 Feb 2007)

From what I understand there will be pipeline slots to the C17 and possibly to the A310.  Personally, I recommend the four fans of freedom, plenty of time for RVSM in your twilight years.


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## hercboy (1 Feb 2007)

From what I have heard they will be piping a few onto the C17 out of portage, however, i believe you do have to do a tour before getting on the Airbus.  The challenger not too sure about.  What I have been told is you can go from rotary to fixed, but you will have to do an instructional tour in between.


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## SupersonicMax (1 Feb 2007)

Last thing I heard about the pipelining to 310 and Challenger is that they are trying to make it available to pipeliner.  

It is possible to go onto different airframe. In my current Squadron, a guy went from Sea King to Dash 8 and he will try to transfert to Jets now.  So, everything is possible...

Max


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## kingfisher (1 Feb 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Last thing I heard about the pipelining to 310 and Challenger is that they are trying to make it available to pipeliner.
> 
> It is possible to go onto different airframe. In my current Squadron, a guy went from Sea King to Dash 8 and he will try to transfert to Jets now.  So, everything is possible...
> 
> Max



Max,

Pipeliners on the airbus or challenger would be great, but the last briefings we had from the career managers here in Moose Jaw was that there would be no pipliners on these airframes because there is no OTU for them.  Only an "on the job training" type of thing...But the C-17, rumour has it...8 Pipeliner spots this year and the first was given out last week.

Ciao.
Kingfisher


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## SupersonicMax (1 Feb 2007)

Thanks for the update on 310 and Challengers.  I had my info last March.

Max


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## GAP (1 Feb 2007)

What are pipliners? apprentices?


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## SupersonicMax (1 Feb 2007)

A pipeliner is someone freshly out of training (Phase III for pilots)

Max


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## GAP (1 Feb 2007)

thanks


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## Globesmasher (2 Feb 2007)

Anything is possible these days - there is mobility between fleets and communities these days.

Expect pipeliners to come to the C-17 in late 2008.  The Airbus needs to set up a different OTU/conversion program before pipeliners can be trained directly on the "Bus".  Right now the OTU is a very short conversion package designed for people with prior heavy, multi engine experience.

With the trade being 160 below the PML and with releases continuing to flow in, there will be no choice but to ramp and up and get pipliners directly into these former "sacred cow" postings.

Times, they are 'a changing ..... for the better I might add.


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## SupersonicMax (2 Feb 2007)

Flight Safety in YUL offers Challenger training that's for sure.  Does Flight Safety offers the 310 course as well?  402 Sqn uses Flight Safety for sim training and is the beginning of the OTU really.  Every new pilot goes to FS for a month and a half before they start training on an actual plane...

Max


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## Globesmasher (2 Feb 2007)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Does Flight Safety offers the 310 course as well?



Not sure if Flight Safety offers them or not.

437 uses a sim down in Florida becasue there are few A310 sims around apparently.  Also the OTU conversion course is offered "in house" by a small OTF staff in Trenton at 437 Sqn.


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## kingfisher (2 Feb 2007)

Globe, Since you're one of the few guys in this country who have actually flown the C-17, what's your opinion of Pipeliners going onto this airplane as a first tour?

Other than the obvious career advantages of getting into such a large A/C early in one's career, for a first tour guy, is this the best A/C and job platform to begin a military pilot, career with?  I was talking to an experienced Herc guy the other day who said that a young pipeliner should be out flying low level in a Herc or something else medium sized.  I too see the logic and advantages to this, even though the C-17 would awesome for a first job....Your thoughts?

Kingfisher ???


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## Inch (2 Feb 2007)

There's not going to be a lot of movement out of MH in the next few years. We're short now and when the Cyclone transition starts, it'll sap a lot of the experienced guys out of the operational sqns and leave very few trained Sea King types. So for most of us, we'll be hard pressed to get out of here in the next 5 years or so, at least that's the current gen around here.


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## Globesmasher (3 Feb 2007)

kingfisher said:
			
		

> ..... what's your opinion of Pipeliners going onto this airplane as a first tour?



In my opinion there is no problem at all in pipeliners coming to the C-17 as a first tour.  I also see no issue with them going to the Airbus nor the Challenger as well for a first tour.  You come onto the aircraft as a copilot and you spend 3 years or more learning the role, the aircraft and everything else you need to know.  I do not see what the issue is ..... 

The whole "sacred cow" thing of making the Airbus and Challenger "second tour only" for guys who have had heavy, multi engine experience is nothing more than the relics of old school thinking, and preservation of the old boys club .... the old Boeing pilots who would walk of the aircraft with bifocals, peak caps and oxfords ...... well, times have changed.

But that is just my opinion.  I have learned that if you ask 6 pilots for an opinion, you'll end up with 7 totally different answers ... 

I flew in Iraq in 2003 with a very young 2Lt who was on first "dollar ride" ... his very first mission out of the unit after his initial qualification training.  So, he sat in the right seat .... just a handful of hours on the machine .... with a set of NVGs on ... going blacked out onto a covert runway.  He did just fine, but his main job is not really "flying" in the combat zone ... he runs the checklist, sets the gear, slats and flaps, monitors the energy state of the aircraft and yells at me if I do something wrong.   He did just fine but he began to panic now and again when he saw tracer fire reaching up at us .... then, when we're on the more mundane legs of the mission I let him fly and try teaching him on those more benign routes.

Pipeliners will be just fine on the C-17 and the training system is set up for pipeliners.

FACT:
Pipeliners WILL be coming onto the C-17 ... and due to the shortage of pilots that we have right now, and with the unexpected amount of open training slots that have just come out of Boeing and Altus AFB ... pipeliners will be coming to the C-17 very quickly ... very soon.  In fact, our first pipeliner was just named this past week out of Portage ..... he'll most likely be coming through for his training fairly soon on the C-17.  It's happening and pipeliners will be/do just fine.



			
				kingfisher said:
			
		

> ....... is this the best A/C and job platform to begin a military pilot, career with?  I was talking to an experienced Herc guy the other day who said that a young pipeliner should be out flying low level in a Herc or something else medium sized.  I too see the logic and advantages to this, even though the C-17 would awesome for a first job....Your thoughts?



No.

Flying a CC-130 around at 200' and 240 kts is a great job, no, actually it is a fantastic job .... but flying the "heavies" is quite different.  One is not better than the other and one is not a requirement or a prerequisite to be better on the other.  They are apples and oranges .... they both have slightly different training and performance objectives.  I would not recommend one over the other because they are not really the same ... and they are both great jobs ... and now that the J model is coming on-line, well life just gets better and better for the young pipeliners coming up through the system right now.

With the Airbus, the C-17 and then new J model .... then FWSAR .... Air Mobility is going is going to be a fantastic place to be for young up and coming pilots who are either "in" the training system right now, or about to enter it.  And, with the Chinook and Cyclone just around the corner the rotary wing side also looks very exciting as well ... hopefully we will see the Cormorant return to full service very soon as well.

We'll have modern technology and glass cockpits coming out the wazoo pretty soon.

I would not recommend one airframe or job over another ... they're all different and information and knowledge are your best allies.  Just try to find out as much as possible from people who have operated the airframes in their roles and then make your own personal choice from that.  

The C-17 as a first choice would be a great career choice, but then again so would the Herc ..... Tac Avn ... flying helicopters on Nogs nap of the earth doing covert insertions with the SOR guys in Pet sounds pretty damned exciting to me ..... or doing the very noble SAR job ..... it all boils down to personal choice .... and you're the only guy who can make that choice.

Good luck .... pick what is going to make you happy and prove to be an exciting and fullfilling career to "YOU".


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## kingfisher (3 Feb 2007)

Globe, Thanks for the great and very comprehensive answer! 

One more quickie...how long is that training course down at Altus?

Kingfisher


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## Globesmasher (3 Feb 2007)

3.5 - 4 months long for the pilots.

Altus makes Moose Jaw look and feel like a large metropolis.
It's Portage La Prairie without trees.

Enjoy.   ;D


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## Good2Golf (4 Feb 2007)

+1 

Globe, that was an excellent post!

G2G


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## zorro (4 Feb 2007)

In response to your post globe....

I definately think that being able to fly either the herc or the c17 would be equally an amazing job. The US military actually has a really cool segment on the c17 for those that are interested on www.dosomethingamazing.com

Theres a few quick movies on airborne refuelling and just the cockpit mechanics of the plane....( HUD and joystick rather than a yoke stuck out especially to me....unique for such a large aircraft?...maybe the wave of the future?)

I was just wondering Globe, since you seem to be so knowledgeable, where is C-17 training taking (or slated to take) place? Is it/will it be in Portage or south of the border??


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## kingfisher (4 Feb 2007)

Zorro,

Portage runs a multi-engine training course using the King Air 90 only and further aircraft training is done at the specific OTU's.  Since there is no OTU for the C-17 here in Canada, pilots will be sent down to Altus, AFB in Oklahoma for a 4 month course.

Hope that answers your question.

Kingfisher


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## Buddha66 (12 Feb 2007)

Excellent post Globe.  Overcoming these biases of the "old school" will undoubtedly be the largest hurdle to change.


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