# Having a hard time deciding after my offer.



## Radland1 (5 Dec 2015)

Hey everyone, I tried to browse the forums and found some great information, but perhaps someone can give me a little bit more advice as to my situation. In no way will I be trying to toot my own horn, just giving the background information. 

I applied to CF in march 2014 as MP and went to base borden for my MPAC in May 2015. I was unsuccessful (am able to reapply in OCT of 2016) and was asked if I had any interest in other trades. I am currently 27 and have two college diplomas in the policing field, physically fit, and was told from my testing score I could get into any non officer trade. I reapplied for Aircraft Structures, Combat Engineer and Army comms. 

I was first offered army comms but declined after realizing I was looking for more of a infantry job, but wanted something that could teach me a trade in case I decided to leave. I was told Aircraft structures wasn't hiring but was offered Combat Engineer.  After browsing the forums, I read what the average day was like and saw a few posts on post career options. My goal at the end of the day is to be in the emergency field whether it is policing through CF or non, but I am also hoping to have a family one day which seems to be tough with the combat engineer trade. 

I currently work as a K9 handler for an anti terrorism unit and make around 50k. I feel joining will help give me the upper hand in applying for police, however I feel it is almost a step back in the pay, especially since MP move to corporal post basic. I also see the CF not taking my application seriously if I turn down the offer for combat engineer as they would have offered me the two jobs I wanted but I didn't accept. Any thoughts as to if taking the CF would be in my best interest or should I wait for MP next year? I have currently applied for local police the past 5 years with no success  :-\

Thank you


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Dec 2015)

My 2 cents.  NEVER accept a trade in the CAF you are not prepared to do a minimum of 5 years in.  NEVER.

It's a personal choice.  Just know that "if" you accepted any other trade, you would have to serve for (usually) 48 months before you could apply to do an Occupational Transfer into say, MP.  Note the word APPLY; it is an application and lots of people are not successful.  

You sound like you are gainfully employed now (50k/yr, K9 Handler) so my question is...is there a 'rush' to do MP and would what you are doing now help you more towards your actual long term goals?


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## cld617 (5 Dec 2015)

The headaches of trying to get the trade you want prior to joining are much smaller than the ones you'll face when you get in and try and move. Right now you're simply being told no from one direction, once in if your trade goes red you can expect to being essentially told no from both the trade you want into and the one you're trying to leave. OT's (occupational transfers) are always possible, even if your trade is red they'll allow 0.5% of applicants out, however you need to be a solid applicant to be selected if that's the case. 

Wait out for the job you want. Trades open and close all the time, it's not worth spending half a decade doing something you don't have a passion for when you can simply wait an extra year now.


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## mariomike (5 Dec 2015)

Radland1 said:
			
		

> My goal at the end of the day is to be in the emergency field whether it is policing through CF or non,





			
				Radland1 said:
			
		

> I feel joining will help give me the upper hand in applying for police,





			
				Radland1 said:
			
		

> Any thoughts as to if taking the CF would be in my best interest or should I wait for MP next year?



No advice, but if you pick a trade other than MP, you may find this discussion of interest,

CF experience relevant to RCMP, civ policing? (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/32733.0;nowap
9 pages.

Edit to add,

Infantry, then police? Feedback  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/60980.0/nowap.html


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Dec 2015)

cld617 said:
			
		

> The headaches of trying to get the trade you want prior to joining are much smaller than the ones you'll face when you get in and try and move. Right now you're simply being told no from one direction, once in if your trade goes red you can expect to being essentially told no from both the trade you want into and the one you're trying to leave. OT's (occupational transfers) are always possible, even if your trade is red they'll allow 0.5% of applicants out, however you need to be a solid applicant to be selected if that's the case.
> 
> Wait out for the job you want. Trades open and close all the time, it's not worth spending half a decade doing something you don't have a passion for when you can simply wait an extra year now.



Actually its not 0.5% of applicants out, it is 0.5% of the TES (Trained Effective Strength  ie people who are OFP/qualified).  If a trade has a TES of 1000, the OUTCAP for Occupational Transfer out would be 5 people total.  If you are a small trade like mine, that OUTCAP number is 1 person total.


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## Radland1 (6 Dec 2015)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> My 2 cents.  NEVER accept a trade in the CAF you are not prepared to do a minimum of 5 years in.  NEVER.
> 
> It's a personal choice.  Just know that "if" you accepted any other trade, you would have to serve for (usually) 48 months before you could apply to do an Occupational Transfer into say, MP.  Note the word APPLY; it is an application and lots of people are not successful.
> 
> You sound like you are gainfully employed now (50k/yr, K9 Handler) so my question is...is there a 'rush' to do MP and would what you are doing now help you more towards your actual long term goals?



thank you to everyone for the responses! They are greatly appreciated. 

About there being a rush, If I decline, I am left with "maybe's" back home. aka corrections and cbsa applications or taking upgrading courses so I can go into a different school program. The job I have now I imagine would help towards policing as I was previously running my family business for the last 6 years which they cannot use as a reference of course lol. I am worried about declining this job and then if I reapply in a year, my application won't be taken with serious consideration. I was under the assumption having a military career would increase the odds in my favor by giving me training and life experience I could not achieve anywhere else. 

Combat engineer appealed to me as I learn a trade, am a firearm enthusiast, would love to move some earth, and enjoy physical challenges. However joining the CF is a big unknown I suppose with no "try out" phase in the actual trade, only basic. Also what are the chances of deployment during the 4 year contract? Is it something that is guaranteed to happen? aka combat zones instead of humanitarian missions


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## PuckChaser (6 Dec 2015)

Every application is considered serious, however if you're going to reapply, only list the trade you want. Having more than one on there says you'll take any of them, which clearly you don't want.


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## mariomike (6 Dec 2015)

Radland1 said:
			
		

> I was under the assumption having a military career would increase the odds in my favor by giving me training and life experience I could not achieve anywhere else.



It may depend on the Service. This is Toronto's policy,

Q: I am a current/past member of the military. Do I get special consideration?

A: Although we appreciate your service in the military, all current and past members of any military service will proceed through the Constable Selection System like any other candidate.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/uni_faq.php#q28


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## Teager (6 Dec 2015)

Radland1 said:
			
		

> Also what are the chances of deployment during the 4 year contract? Is it something that is guaranteed to happen? aka combat zones instead of humanitarian missions



That will completely depend on what's happening in the world and what the government of the day decides on doing. So no one here can answer that. What we can say is no it's not guaranteed to happen.

One thing you should be aware of is what would your plan be if you are injured and can't work in the Emergency services field? As a former Combat Engineer with the goal of becoming a police officer this scenerio has happened to me. All I can say is have multiple plans on hand.


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## mariomike (6 Dec 2015)

Radland1 said:
			
		

> Also what are the chances of deployment during the 4 year contract?



This may help,

Deployment probabilities  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/104102.0

Chances of Deployment ?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/105273.0

Can someone throw me a friggin deployment????!!!  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/103498.0

Wanna join, but what if I don't wanna deploy? (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/89177.0/nowap.html

etc...



			
				Radland1 said:
			
		

> but I am also hoping to have a family one day which seems to be tough with the combat engineer trade.



If your ( future ) family will be on board with ( possible ) deployments may be something to consider.



			
				Teager said:
			
		

> One thing you should be aware of is what would your plan be if you are injured and can't work in the Emergency services field?



That could include both physical and mental stress related injury(s).


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## Radland1 (6 Dec 2015)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Every application is considered serious, however if you're going to reapply, only list the trade you want. Having more than one on there says you'll take any of them, which clearly you don't want.



My initial application was for only MP. Once I was declined I was asked if there were any other trades which were of interest. I listed the three and everyday weigh the pro/con of taking these trades. 



			
				Teager said:
			
		

> That will completely depend on what's happening in the world and what the government of the day decides on doing. So no one here can answer that. What we can say is no it's not guaranteed to happen.
> 
> One thing you should be aware of is what would your plan be if you are injured and can't work in the Emergency services field? As a former Combat Engineer with the goal of becoming a police officer this scenerio has happened to me. All I can say is have multiple plans on hand.



I'm sorry to hear that, what did you end up choosing as a career path if policing did not work out? 



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> It may depend on the Service. This is Toronto's policy,
> 
> Q: I am a current/past member of the military. Do I get special consideration?
> 
> ...



Of all the possible options, you would think the military would actually help increase your chances but I guess not lol.



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> This may help,
> 
> Deployment probabilities
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/104102.0
> ...


Thank you very much for these, it seems the chances of deployments are an unknown to everyone and can arise at any time. Definitely something to consider before signing any line at the bottom of a page.


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## RCDtpr (6 Dec 2015)

I'll throw my two cents in as I can speak from experience of having served in the combat arms and am now currently in policing.

The reality in this line of work is that it is incredibly difficult to get hired into.  In saying that, I recommend you pick a trade you can see yourself doing for a while (if not your whole career).  The reason for this is, statistically speaking, there's a very good chance you're never hired.

This isn't meant to be a downer or insinuate you won't be hired, merely pointing out thousands apply per year and only hundreds are hired (in Ontario).

I can also attest that the military doesn't really give an edge in the hiring process (and with some services can actually be a hinderance).  When I was going through interviews etc. most recruiters couldn't care less about most of my additional courses.  To be honest, working in customer service is probably more beneficial than the military when it comes to being hired.

Anyways although that got a bit long winded, if you take anything away from my post it's to make sure you choose a trade you'll be happy doing because you could very well be there a while.


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## mariomike (7 Dec 2015)

ExRCDcpl said:
			
		

> To be honest, working in customer service is probably more beneficial than the military when it comes to being hired.



The Toronto Police Service has a Customer Service Excellence Initiative,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxd2YI7bTMQ


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## Radland1 (9 Dec 2015)

ExRCDcpl said:
			
		

> I'll throw my two cents in as I can speak from experience of having served in the combat arms and am now currently in policing.
> 
> The reality in this line of work is that it is incredibly difficult to get hired into.  In saying that, I recommend you pick a trade you can see yourself doing for a while (if not your whole career).  The reason for this is, statistically speaking, there's a very good chance you're never hired.
> 
> ...



Great information here, it definitely is hard to get in, I have run my family business in front line customer service for 10 years and still no success. I think it is the "life experience aspect" I am missing as there weren't many great examples I could use throughout my interviews. After going from combat engineer to policing, which do you prefer?


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## mariomike (9 Dec 2015)

Radland1 said:
			
		

> After going from combat engineer to policing, which do you prefer?



With a handle like ExRCDcpl, my guess is that s/he was an Armoured Soldier. But, both trades are Combat Arms.



			
				Radland1 said:
			
		

> I think it is the "life experience aspect" I am missing as there weren't many great examples I could use throughout my interviews.



Helping your family run a business sounds like good work and problem solving experience.

Because of the "life experience aspect", a few years ago I read that the average age of police recruits had increased to 29. That led to a change in the pension plan.


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## Radland1 (30 Dec 2015)

It was great I learned a lot from a business and customer service aspect. I think the lack of difficult life situations is what I have been missing in order to get that final hire. 

After heavily weighing my options I started to consider reserve to still be apart of the forces. I browsed the forum and couldn't find a whole ton of information regarding the difference between reg and reservist for combat engineer. Could someone help provide insight? 

ps. I did see the daily life of a combat engineer which left me with questions 

1. Do you actually parade 2 times a day? 
2. Is combat engineer a sleepless job as to speak lol
3. Are combat engineers deployed with the infantry during missions in most cases? are they a front line trade which is commonly engaged? 

Thank you and happy pre new years!


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## mariomike (30 Dec 2015)

Radland1 said:
			
		

> I browsed the forum and couldn't find a whole ton of information regarding the difference between reg and reservist for combat engineer. Could someone help provide insight?



This may help,

Reserve / PRes are part-time and Regular Force are full-time,
Combat Engineer,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+combat+engineer+reserve&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=guWDVtGLF8mC8Qf2t6OoDg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22combat+engineer%22+

aka Sapper,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+sapper&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=voOEVsf7BoeN8QfaipeIAg&gws_rd=ssl#

From Recruiting,
Combat Engineer ( Full-time and Part-time )
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/combatengineer-5



			
				Radland1 said:
			
		

> Is combat engineer a sleepless job as to speak lol



Sleep deprivation during training and operations is discussed here,

Sleep Deprivation  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/112792.0

See also,

The Sleep Superthread
http://army.ca/forums/threads/82.100.html

Sleep during BMQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110727.0

least appealing aspects of the combat engineer 


			
				Rouge said:
			
		

> Everything I've been able to dig up about the sapper seems to tell me sleep is something I'll rarely have enough of



etc.



			
				Radland1 said:
			
		

> Are combat engineers deployed with the infantry during missions in most cases? are they a front line trade which is commonly engaged?



Are Combat Engineer a Combat Arm?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110423.0


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