# Former service doesn't count?



## Arctic Acorn (26 Apr 2005)

I have a question that I hope someone here can answer...

I have a Private in my section that has former service from approximately 20 years ago, when he was a Bombardier in the Artillery reserves with about 4-5 years of service accrued. I think that his former service should count in determining his current rank and pay level, but I can't find any info within the CFAO's or the DAOD's one way or the other. Can anyone point me in the right direction? 

Thanks much!

 :dontpanic:


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## chrisf (26 Apr 2005)

Qualifcations expire after 5 years out don't they?


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## George Wallace (26 Apr 2005)

That is a matter that is figured out when he joins.  He should have claimed/declared his previous at the Recruiting Center and then Ottawa would have made a decision, all of which would have been stated on his enrollment Message.  What pay scale he enters at is decided by Ottawa.  He should, however, get into the Pay Office right away and see about claiming his previous service towards his pension.  It is much cheaper to buy back that time as a Private, than to wait a few years(+) down the road.


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## Fusilier (12 Jul 2005)

In addition to pension, prior service may count towards leave.  To explain, in order for a member to be entitled to 25 days annual leave they must serve 5 years.  However, as per the CANFORGEN below, prior service may apply.  Note this also applies for the entitlement of 30 days annual with 28 years of service.  

CANFORGEN 046/04 ADM HR MIL 026 251839Z MAR 04 - MODIFICATIONS TO RESERVE FORCE LEAVE POLICY, para 2, which reads as follows:
â Å“EFFECTIVE FROM 1 APR 04 ... A MEMBER OF THE REGULAR FORCE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE COMPLETED FIVE YEARS OF SERVICE, FOR PURPOSES OF ANNUAL LEAVE ENTITLEMENTS, WHEN THE PRESENT PERIOD OF CONTINUOUS REGULAR FORCE SERVICE, COMBINED WITH ANY PREVIOUS PERIOD OF REGULAR FORCE SERVICE, ANY PREVIOUS PERIODS OF CLASS B OR CLASS C RESERVE SERVICE AND ONE QUARTER OF ANY PREVIOUS PERIODS OF CLASS A RESERVE SERVICE EQUAL FIVE YEARS

So make sure the clerk has his CF 1007 listing any full time service in order to action the leave in HRMS (Peoplesoft)


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## c4th (12 Jul 2005)

Fusilier said:
			
		

> RESERVE SERVICE EQUAL FIVE YEARS



Awsome!


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## MJP (12 Jul 2005)

Fusilier said:
			
		

> In addition to pension, prior service may count towards leave.   To explain, in order for a member to be entitled to 25 days annual leave they must serve 5 years.   However, as per the CANFORGEN below, prior service may apply.   Note this also applies for the entitlement of 30 days annual with 28 years of service.
> 
> CANFORGEN 046/04 ADM HR MIL 026 251839Z MAR 04 - MODIFICATIONS TO RESERVE FORCE LEAVE POLICY, para 2, which reads as follows:
> "EFFECTIVE FROM 1 APR 04 âÃ‚  ¦ A MEMBER OF THE REGULAR FORCE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE COMPLETED FIVE YEARS OF SERVICE, FOR PURPOSES OF ANNUAL LEAVE ENTITLEMENTS, WHEN THE PRESENT PERIOD OF CONTINUOUS REGULAR FORCE SERVICE, COMBINED WITH ANY PREVIOUS PERIOD OF REGULAR FORCE SERVICE, ANY PREVIOUS PERIODS OF CLASS B OR CLASS C RESERVE SERVICE AND ONE QUARTER OF ANY PREVIOUS PERIODS OF CLASS A RESERVE SERVICE EQUAL FIVE YEARS
> ...



I love that new policy, got me five extra days last year!


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## Long in the tooth (27 Sep 2005)

I would appreciate some clarification on previous service WRT 30 days annual leave.  I understand it is logical to assume that if it counts for 25 days that it should also count for 30, but it doesn't spell it out.  The OR here has actually sent an email to DCBA to elaborate on this but has not received a reply.

The credit to 25 days was probably established to attract transfers to the RegF and I don't think they looked past the immediate consequences (imagine that).

As well, when I read the CANFORGEN I don't get the impression that eligible time is B+C+ A/4, but straight time as if were applied to CD entitlement...

If and when I get a reply from DCBA I will info this forum.


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## amos933 (27 Sep 2005)

Years servered are counted as just that towards your CD. As for your time served towards promotion, you should receive 1 full day for every B or C class day served and 1/4 day for every A class day. The problem is that it is up to the member to prove previous time served. Therefore if the CFRG (Canadian Forces Recruit Group in Borden). Upon recruiting you finds no file on you, you're out of luck. The member can apply under the Freedom of Information Act and see whats being held in the archives in Ottawa, but in most cases they don't hold onto items such as unit pay sheets. However they do hold onto claims for such things as short contracts (2 or 3 months) and courses. He can also try going to his old unit as many units are pack rats when it comes to paperwork.

In any case I wish him luck. I served close to 10 years in the Reserves and was only credited with just over 2 years time in the Regular Forces. My issue is that I can't prove my attendance for weekly parade nights and occasional weekends. Next month I'll be receiving my CD a couple weeks before I get my CPLs.


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## Long in the tooth (2 Oct 2005)

Please give references, no innuendo, please.


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## Roger (2 Oct 2005)

Your old service does not count at all after 7 years, you then loose all qualifications, it is up to the recruiting officer when you return. After 5 years it is up for review. I went back after 7 years and the only qualification I could keep was my jump qualification, my DND 404 where no longer valid. My time counts as far as my CD and also for promotion, I would not have to wait the time periods between ranks as a new recruit would, and as soon as I finished re-doing my trade course I was promoted to corporal.


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## TCBF (2 Oct 2005)

'CD' Reserve time will not get you the extra week(s) leave early.  I did over five years in the militia, then waited five years in the regs to get five weeks annual, then to 28 years in the regs to get 6 wweks annual.

Tom


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## amos933 (2 Oct 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> 'CD' Reserve time will not get you the extra week(s) leave early.   I did over five years in the militia, then waited five years in the regs to get five weeks annual, then to 28 years in the regs to get 6 wweks annual.
> 
> Tom




Things have changed in recent years! I had mine calculated a year ago and got it. I know 3 other component transfer members that got it at the same time.


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## Cansky (2 Oct 2005)

You really should follow up on this with your RMS clerk.  I have a pte who was 9 years in the airforce was out for approx 10 years (give or take).  She was just given credit toward her pension and currently her leave.  We are now in the process of asking for her Cpl which should have been given to her.  The recuiting system should be looking into this prior to reenrollment but all to often it's fought after they are in.  We were told in could take up to 2 years for answer on her Cpl's.  I know ex reserves that got nothing credited to them on enrolment but 2 years later won their requests for back pay and courses credited (ie. JLC).  But any good RMS clerk will know who and where to send the request.
Kirsten


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## TCBF (2 Oct 2005)

"Things have changed in recent years! I had mine calculated a year ago and got it. I know 3 other component transfer members that got it at the same time."

- Sounds like an improvement.  

Tom


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (2 Oct 2005)

As a former Artillery reservist I will share my bit in hopes that it helps. I was in Arty reserves for 5 years when I applied for direct entry to the regular force Artillery. They credited me 2 years 46 days worth of pensionable time that I now buy back at $30 per pay. Since I had done two tours in the reserves they credited me alot more days than the average reservist.

 As for courses I was awarded all my reserve courses with the exception of my CLC but again I believe it was because the courses were done within the previouse 5 years. Someone who had been out for longer periods may (in their opinion) not retained enough course knowledge to have the qualification reinstated.

 The CD as previously stated is awarded based on every day you were in the reserves plus your new reg force time for a total of 12 years(minus any naughty time of course).

 This soldier in question needs only review his past service record and CFRC will take into consideration previouse time as applicable. In my opinion though I don't think they will credit him many courses.

 Its good to see though that you as his supervisor are taking an interest in looking for information to help him/her out.


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## chauch2001 (23 May 2006)

SO here is my story.  The questions come at the end.  I am specifically looking for Admin advice not recruiting.

I was in the regluar force Navy from 16April1991 until end of second BE on 17August1997. Rank on leaving is Leading Seaman pay level 4.
I was recruited for CIC 7Jan2001.  Rank on leaving was Acting-Sub Lieutenant.  
Re-applied for skilled entry into old Navy trade August 2002 possibly very near the end of my 5 year limit of skilled. 
16December2004 refused regforce offer (Finally) due to other full time federal law enforcement employment.
Made second recruiting choice of Reserve Medic.  Released from CIC 16Dec04, resigned comminsion and enrolled as a medic on 17December2004.

I am currently a basic level for pay Private.   :-[

It appears that recruiting just sent my file when I refused regular force and turned it over to the reserves completely empty  :-Xwithout any incentives for previous service being completed.   Either pay or rank.

My question is with my history what may I be entitled too?  I am asking because my unit has been attempting to deal with my request for higher pay incentive and rank since Dec2004 with no result and I am currently considering a grievance.  If I write a grievance I would like to write it with some effective requests for redress. _ (  :crybaby: Plus it is disconserting that I am 9 months from my CD and still only a first year Private lol )_
Thanks for your help


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## Nfld Sapper (23 May 2006)

Have you tried to look at you electronice version of your MPRR? If you got access to the DIN I think the address is http://dhrim04.desc.mil.ca/emaa. If that doesn't work pm me and I will look on my work computer for the right address.

Hope this helps.


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## kincanucks (23 May 2006)

_It appears that recruiting just sent my file when I refused regular force and turned it over to the reserves completely empty  :-Xwithout any incentives for previous service being completed.   Either pay or rank_

Recruiting will not assess your incentive entitlement unless you are going Reg F and it is up to the Reserve HQ to determine what you are entitled to.  Your current unit is now responsible to send your previous service time and qualifications to their HQ.


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## George Wallace (23 May 2006)

When you joined the Reserves, did you:

1.  Bring in your Certificate of Service, so that they could photocopy it and use it to verify your records;

2.  Bring in any Certificates for Crses attended;

3.  Bring in any Crse Reports; and/or

4.  Bring in a copy of your last 490A/MPRR?

The more documentation you may have been able to provide them to start with, the more likely you will get faster and better service.  Remember, though, the Reserves are very slow moving on the Admin Front.


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## Roger (17 Oct 2006)

Wait till they bring in the reserve pention, I have my old service that I can apply but I need to show proof, since I was out more than 10 years all of my info is at Ottawa and I have to fill out some form throught some act. This will be a long process...


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## 3rd Herd (17 Oct 2006)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Qualifcations expire after 5 years out don't they?



Not sure  of all qualifications but two of us just had our 404's reinstated. Took in UER and Defensive Driving Course certification(1982) and all were reinstated. For Range Officer qualifications had to do a one day refresher course and one day as an assistant. Pays to hang onto paperwork.


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