# new rucks



## humint (8 May 2003)

A Sgt at my reg mentioned to me last night that we are due to get a new design ruck in the next year or year & a half. Any word on that?

Are they like the US Molle system or are they completely different?


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## combat_medic (8 May 2003)

They‘re a very cool new, high speed, low drag internal carbon fibre frame with removable pouches similar to the British Bergen. It also comes in multiple sizes and is hugely adjustable with padded kidney belt and other sexy accessories.







from the DND website: Concept of Use â€“ The Rucksack will be a basic issue item to CF personnel conducting land operations. It will provide the primary load carriage means in operations where soldiers are required to wear fragmentation protection and carry combat supplies and sustainment items sufficient for up to 72 hours. While it will be used in conjunction with the Small Pack System and either the TV or 82 pattern webbing the Rucksack cannot be worn at the same time as the Small Pack. It will have the capacity to store the items normally carried in the Small Pack system.         Description â€“ The Rucksack has an internal frame. The internal support is provided by two aluminum stays which are bent to the shape of each individuals back. It has a capacity of approximately 80 L. It varies up or down according to the frame size. The ruck can be divided into two compartments by a draw cord closure in the center or used as a single large bag. Access is through the top or through an opening in the bottom compartment. The sleeping system will be carried in a Waterproof Compression Sack (WCS) which can be stored either in the bottom or top of the rucksack. The rucksack has a radio pouch which can be accessed through a zipper in the top flap. One of the greatest innovations is the hip belt which actually bears weight. A strap on the hip belt is attached to load transfer rods that run up the sides of the rucksack. This allows weight to be transferred between the shoulders and the hips. It also has a chest strap.

I would imagine some of the Regs may be getting them in the next few years, and the reserves may get them before the second coming of Christ, but I wouldn‘t even count on that.


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## humint (8 May 2003)

It‘s about time the CF took a civie design and adapted it for Mil use. I suspect that it will take a long while for these to trickle their way down to the Res. Cr@p, I‘m still wearing ODs. I‘m sure I‘ll get it the day before I retire. 

But, finding out who makes these and picking up you‘re own may be a good idea -- at least for those who can afford it.


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## McInnes (8 May 2003)

DND doesnt even know who is going to be making them yet apparently. Its "official" status is ‘In Definition‘. For a res force, i wouldnt get my hopes up for getting one within the next decade....


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## Doug VT (9 May 2003)

Sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble, but the new rucksack costs over $1000.  The ONLY units that are going to receive it are the 3 Reg force light infantry battalions.  And to the support trades/personal which are attached/posted to these units.  The first scheduled deliveries will not be until late 2005, early 2006...


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## muskrat89 (9 May 2003)

I can‘t imagine any rucksack WORTH over $1000....  sheesh


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## NMPeters (9 May 2003)

Doug, I‘m curious as to where you got your information from regarding the distribution of the rucks.


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## Gryphon (9 May 2003)

I imagine that they‘ll be expensive, but THAT expensive? i highly doubt it....


plus what about those people who are on tour???


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## Doug VT (10 May 2003)

I don‘t know why anyone would find it hard to believe that they could be so expensive.  A civi ruck of this type could cost easily cost over $500.  Add in the CADPAT and the interchangeable this & that and the fact that it‘s a government contract and the figure is not impossible.  

We checked out a modified rucksack design(62‘ pattern) through a contact met through the pathfinder course.  It looked good, but why buy one if we‘re just getting the new one next year...
After talking to the guys who are involved with the project(they seem to be around Petawawa a lot) we got the scoop that was in my previous post.  Due to the high cost of the product, this(so far) is the route that the (whoever decides) will be taking.  Makes sense to me.  There have always been items that only certain MOC‘s get issued because of what they do, ie.Bivi bag...
Might as well get used to it, I think that we‘ll see more things like this in the future...


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## Michael Dorosh (10 May 2003)

If the ruck is as good as the new winter kit (ie astonishingly lightweight and yet high quality) may I daresay it will be worth the wait?


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## Jarnhamar (10 May 2003)

I thought the army was doing it‘s best to do away with (reg)light infantry battalions and switch everything to the Lavs.
"The canadian people paid for the lav now they wanna see it"  general whos name escapes me.

I can‘t wait to wear the new TVs (that were designed to be used with the new ruck) with my old 82 style ruck sack. Im sure their going to fit great together.


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## muskrat89 (10 May 2003)

Well, Doug - I‘m sure they‘re out there, but I‘m kind of in the outdoor business, and I‘ve never seen a $500 rucksack. Note in my post, I mentioned "worth" not cost - I find it hard to fathom one being worth that much....I wasn‘t questioning your pricing info.  I guess you travel in richer circles than I do      Dang - $500 rucksacks


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## Deleted member 585 (10 May 2003)

It‘s satisfying to see effective civvy designs being translated to military kit.  My own civvy expedition quality pack was around $500 three years ago, and worth every penny.

Seeing as the process is more complicated and material intensive than simply painting civvy kit green, I‘m willing to accept the higher cost if, all things being equal, it truly meets spec.

We don‘t need another lump-in-the-small-of-our-backs... that little foam brick on the current pack seems like such a "hack" at first glance but I‘ll admit that it‘s better than no pad!


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## Bzzliteyr (11 May 2003)

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=587517&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=336803&bmUID=1052671602675 

There you go, just looking quickly on one website..

Bzz


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## humint (11 May 2003)

I really doubt that the new ruck is any better than a high quality civie design (most of which are between $250 and $500). In fact, I bet ya dollars to donuts that it is a civie knock-off with a couple of Mil modifications (i.e. C7/C9 pouches, etc) and may be a pocket for the US issue 2L bottle (cause the US harness doesn‘t fit on CDN webbing!). 

As for it costing more than $1,000 -- yes, I bet it does, and that because it is made on contract for the Mil, not because it is of higher quality.

Does anyone know who manufactures the new ruck? 

I may buy the civie counter-part, along with some very small brushes, and paint it cadpat!


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## McInnes (11 May 2003)

wow, twice as expensive just cuz its mil contract...tax dollars and effective budget management at work...amen


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## Michael Dorosh (11 May 2003)

Heh, and if they gave the contract to "the lowest bidder" as the old cliche goes, there would be ****  to pay, too!

Let‘s wait til we‘ve actually seen the thing.  Prototypes do cost considerably more than production items, also, do we know for sure the price didn‘t refer to the initial costs of tooling to make the specific prototype design, experimental cloth and materials, etc.?


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## combat_medic (12 May 2003)

Having it made in CADPAT will also add to the cost. They will have to manufacture their own cloth for the ruck, not to mention all the straps etc. that have the be in CADPAT. All of that does add a considerable cost. As well, the whole "mold to your back" frame system is something that I haven‘t seen at MEC or in any other civvie ruck.

That being said, $1000 does still seem to be a lot for a mass produced ruck.


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## 762gunner (12 May 2003)

As one usually holding Instructor positions, I use my 64-pattern ruck in the summer as it is VERY... what? ergonomically correct with heavy loads?  And it feels a ****  of a lot better.  If the designers in Otta-Waah really gave a dang for the health of the troops the 84 would have never been approved.  The 64 is not only a hot commodity since the reserves won‘t truly see the new ruck for some time, but it‘s in widespread use among army units (the reserves in particular) and especially during summer training.  I won‘t kick someone off my course for using one (Basic excepted, of course).


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## NMPeters (16 May 2003)

Straight from the Clothe The Soldier Project Office:

Aim and Scope:

AIM: To acquire and issue Canadian Forces personnel conducting land operations as expeditiously as possible with compatible items of individual environmental and battlefield protective clothing and equipment to address current op deficiencies.

SCOPE:  Re-scoped to include all personnel conducting land operations

Concept Drivers:

SCOPE FOCUS: CF pers conducting land op = field units

ARMY INTERIM MODEL: light to medium 

TOTAL FORCE: Reg F troops tied to vehs or veh mounted systems in ops; Res F primarily dismounted

LOGISTICS Control: Unit CFFET / DA not individual issue to keep limited qty item in the field unit

SCOPE: CTS is NOT designed or funded to completely replace load carriage for all 82 Pattern Load Carriage System users

RUCKSACK:  Unit CFFET item to selected  field units only. Issued to troops expected to operate dismounted or who are not directly  tied to a vehicle to complete their mission or task

RUCKSACK: Awaiting MND approval. Schedule to commence delivery Jan 04 and complet Jun 05.

Cost per ruck: $430.00
Numbers required: 50,240

Initial Issue Regular and Reserve Force in order of priority:

1. Infantry, artillery, field engineers
2. Armoured Recce
3. Schools


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## Pikache (16 May 2003)

> Initial Issue Regular and Reserve Force in order of priority:
> 
> 1. Infantry, artillery, field engineers
> 2. Armoured Recce
> 3. Schools


Does this mean Reg and Res combat units will get them at the same time?


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## NMPeters (16 May 2003)

I really don‘t know. I would assume that the distribution will be similar to the CADPAT uniform itself from east to west. I don‘t think they‘ve gotten all that detailed with the distribution plan yet.


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## 762gunner (16 May 2003)

As per the order of priority, there is no CSS listed.  That means Svc Bn‘s will have to do their BFT‘s and field ex‘s with the current ruck?  I still would encourage those with the means to purchase their own 64 pattern.
     As a matter of philosophy, it‘s a shame that solders still have to purchase their own kit if they want good stuff.
     Sie la vie, eh.


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## Doug VT (17 May 2003)

That sounds better and more on line with the original info that we got.  It‘ll be pretty funny when I get back to work and tell the guys(who bought new rucks)the we‘ll get the new rucks shortly after Afghanistan, heck, maybe even while we‘re there...probably not...


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