# New personal equipment for soldiers



## Pikache (16 Jun 2003)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/English/6_1_1.asp?ID=33 

Monday, June 16, 2003


Capt Peter Scott wears the rain suit and Sgt Ernie Parolin wears the sniper suit 

Work continues towards providing soldiers with improved personal kit over the next several years-from elbow and kneepads to hydration systems, from rain suits to arctic camouflage.

Although some of the equipment is either adapted or purchased for the Army from available off the shelf products, many others are the results of extensive research and field trials. 

Canadian industry also participates in the development of new kit, whether researching how to dye combat boots with the CADPAT pattern or developing a prototype of an improved snowshoe.


Knee and elbow pads

Elbow and kneepads

The most common injury suffered by infantry soldiers involves their knees. Elbow injuries occur regularly during Fighting in Built Up Area (FIBUA) training. 

After two years of trials, the pads‘ final designs provide the most protection and comfort and will be issued in two sizes. Units preparing for overseas deployment will receive the pads on priority issue, followed by Regular and Reserve infantry units, the Combat Training Centre (CTC) and Area Training centres. 

An order for 4500 sets of elbow and kneepads is currently being manufactured, with delivery expected to take place in 2003, with a follow-up contract for 8000.


Capt Richard Montague models the thermal lightweight blanket.

Lightweight thermal blanket

While the material remains the same, three new features have been added to the Canadian version of the US Poncho Liner or Ranger Blanket-a zippered head hole, a full-length two-way zipper and CADPAT. 

Delivery of 6000 Lightweight Thermal Blankets is expected to begin in August 2003. No more US blankets will be purchased and over the next several years soldiers will exchange their US blankets and sleeping bag flannelette liners for the new blankets.

Sniper suit

A complicated garment for industry to develop and one that many companies have looked at developing but decided not too, the prototype sniper suit contains at least 14 different styles of pockets and multiple loops hidden throughout. 

Designed by Canadian Forces (CF) snipers, the new suits will be available in four sizes, accommodate additional layers for thermal protection and incorporate additional padding. To date CF snipers wear their own versions of British and American suits. A call for contracts to manufacture this specialist garment goes out this spring.

The pants and jacket sets will be purchased in both CADPAT Temperate Woodland and Arid Region and issued to all qualified CF snipers as a base garment, to which the snipers will add their own Gillie capes and scrim. 

Rain suit

The Army‘s next rain suit will be a breathable garment. 

During an extensive eight-month trial based in Gagetown from April to December 2002-the area‘s wettest season in recent years-members of Whiskey Battery, 20th Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery (CTC) trialed both a rubber-lined suit and breathable suit in the field. 

Substantive collected data lead to the decision to procure a breathable garment. The Army‘s design is expected to be converged with the Air Force‘s new rain suit, including essential requirements for both elements, with issuing to begin in 2004.

Hydration system

The design for the Army‘s new personal hydration system is compatible with the tactical vest and future load carriage systems. It holds three litres of water and comes with a built in cleaning kit. 

The system will be issued to combat arms units and CF personnel deploying on operations. The system underwent user trials in East Timor, Eritrea and Afghanistan. The Army plans to begin issuing the system this fiscal year (03-04).


Snowshoes and a prototype of the winter operations CADPAT.

Snowshoes

Based on user trials done in 2002, the CF‘s new snowshoe has been designed to be stronger, provide better traction and stability, and include a multi-fit harness. 

No longer an individual issue item, the snowshoes will be issued to unit accounts, through which individuals will be issued the snowshoes for operations and training. The Army is hoping to procure between 5 000 and 6 000 pairs for winter 03, followed by additional buys each year to replenish stocks.

Extreme cold weather boots

Following user trials of three designs of extreme cold weather boots in British Columbia, Manitoba and the Northwest Territories, the Army has come up with a list of specifications required in its new extreme cold weather boots. 

A final set of user trials will take place during winter 2004 with prototype boots submitted by interested companies, from which the winning design will be chosen. Procurement is expected to begin in winter 2005.

CADPAT winter operations and urban

Unlike the combination of four colours in the temperate pattern and three colours in the arid pattern, the new winter operations pattern will likely combine white and shades of grey and include a reversible, all-white side.  

Over the past several years, the Army has been conducting imagery and technical trials to develop a winter operations version of CADPAT. 

Canada is also participating in NATO studies to determine the requirements and advantages of an urban camouflage pattern.
***

Well, sounds like lots of good kit coming down the line. Let‘s hope that the army bureaucracy delays are minimal and the troops get the stuff as soon as possible.


----------



## Armymedic (16 Jun 2003)

Way to go CTS team!   

The new raingear would be great.
And the blanket, I have a home modified version just like it I used for a sleeping bag liner, and had suggestedd to the CTS guy that came around a couple yrs ago.... 
nic to see the are following it up.


----------



## Arctic Acorn (29 Aug 2005)

Has anyone recieved the new blanket yet? If so, any reviews? 

 :dontpanic:


----------



## KevinB (29 Aug 2005)

:blotto:

Its Tease the Soldier - look what we wear - you'll never get it...  ;D


----------



## Spanky (29 Aug 2005)

I have to wonder just how accurate these dates are.  The rain suit, for example, was to begin being issued at the beginning of 2004.  We are now well into the second half of 2005.  In 31 bde we, I believe, have yet to be given an issue date.  We won't get issued in 2005.  Over two years to issue something?


----------



## meni0n (29 Aug 2005)

Got the new blanket. It's great.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (29 Aug 2005)

I'm sorry, but by the picture, does it seem like Sgt Ernie Parolin just stepped out of La Cage Au Follies ;D Nothing against him, of course, just the jaunty slant of the fedora, the knowing smile creasing his lips and the twinkle of mischief in his eyes ;D ;D


----------



## BITTER PPLCI CPL (29 Aug 2005)

Of course they'll over analyze the shit out the rain suit, then in 2 years a new officer will take over and he'll have to put his 2 cents in and change everything over again. It was in 2000 they first showed the ruck, where is it now? I tried the knee pads, they suck!


----------



## KevinB (29 Aug 2005)

ah yes the knee / elbow pads...

 Elbow pads big enough to use as knee pads - and knee pads a catcher in baseball would find big...  WTF over.


----------



## Cloud Cover (29 Aug 2005)

Obviously, the snow shoes will be stored at Camp Mirage along with the winter CADPAT.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (29 Aug 2005)

Hopefully I can add to your bitterness by saying that the JTF and AIRFORCE already have a CADPAT gortex rainsuit.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (29 Aug 2005)

I think the elbow, knee pads were originally for the PPCLI hockey teams.  Although here it looks like they were using baseball knee guards.







"Based on user trials done in 2002, the CF's new snowshoe has been designed to be stronger, provide better traction and stability, and include a multi-fit harness."

Better traction, hell ya.  Better stability, debatable.  Stronger, luck f**k.


----------



## kyleg (29 Aug 2005)

Who is that in the photo? PPCLI? And who are the escorting? Probably a silly question, but I really don't know...


----------



## KevinB (30 Aug 2005)

Its some JTF guys bringing the "prisoners we have not taken" into US custody. 

 Doing specific Doorkicker roles the baseball kneepads can be good - just not for typical 031 usage.


----------



## westie47 (30 Aug 2005)

We used the same shin guards for riot control at work before we moved up to Hatch models. Those are specifically designed for LE use.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (30 Aug 2005)

Kev if I recall correctly these guys were "caught" in the mountains (prior to the MND admitting we had guys there mind you).


----------



## kyleg (30 Aug 2005)

Oh, ok, thanks. I thought photos of JTF weren't allowed to be realeased  ???


----------



## KevinB (30 Aug 2005)

Unfortunately - anywhere there is a reporter...

The where a bunch of guys a little pissed off at reports in the recent Haiti stuff - in the face sort of stuff.  Kinda wonder why some reporters intentionally try to dick someones PERSEC...

The Hill puts out pics of them anyway in recruiting stuff, just not inyour face type stuff and typically with airbrushed facials.


----------



## kyleg (30 Aug 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Unfortunately - anywhere there is a reporter...
> 
> The where a bunch of guys a little pissed off at reports in the recent Haiti stuff - in the face sort of stuff.  Kinda wonder why some reporters intentionally try to dick someones PERSEC...



Man, that pisses me off. I'm planning on becoming a photojournalist and just the thought of endangering someone's life like that for the sake of a good shot makes me cringe. It's one thing to document a conflict. It's another to interfere. *shakes head* such bs... i'm going to bed.


----------



## Spanky (30 Aug 2005)

Yet another thread goes on a tangent.


----------



## CBH99 (30 Aug 2005)

Oh c'mon now, it would be just weird if it didn't go off on a tangent...


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (30 Aug 2005)

It wouldn't be a thread worth adding too if it didn't go off tangent.
That pic I provide was in the papers.


----------



## kyleg (30 Aug 2005)

*laughs about the tangent comments*

As for the pic from the paper I'd say that one isn't so bad. I mean, none of the soldiers' faces are visible. If I were part of the general public I'd probably just think it was a pretty cool lookin pic.

Cheers,
Pinky


----------



## q_1966 (3 Sep 2005)

Anyone know what the new Hydration Packs look like? Heard that some of the guys going/are overseas in Afganistan have it,


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (3 Sep 2005)

I thought it was a standard Camel back 2 L.


----------



## KevinB (3 Sep 2005)

3L/100oz CADPAT.

 I thought I had a pic of mine floating around but cannot find it.

Its a camlebck - I mean its not doing your laundry...

Here is the same version as ours but in US ACU






Edit: ours has 'daisy chain' straps on it.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (3 Sep 2005)

same valve?


----------



## Armymedic (3 Sep 2005)

Yes same valve. 

It has the bite cover, on/off valve and quick release feature. All the new high speed Camelback features.


----------



## MPSHIELD (28 Oct 2005)

A little late but here it is in CADPAT TW for those who have not seen it.

http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Vehicles/Equipment/CAMELBAK_CADPAT_TW1.gif
http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Vehicles/Equipment/CAMELBAK_CADPAT_TW2.gif


----------



## The_Falcon (28 Oct 2005)

What I kinda find surprising is that the CTS staff didn't try and find a "Made in Canada" hydration system.


----------



## Guardian (28 Oct 2005)

Another tangent, but what the heck is this? From the original article:



> ...Whiskey Battery, 20th Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery (CTC)...



20th Regiment???  W Battery belongs to the Artillery SCHOOL, not the "20th Regiment RCA (CTC)." There's no 20th Regiment at CTC; not even in the Atlantic Area.

There's no excuse for this. This isn't some civvie reporter walking off the street; this is an ARMY article. Makes you wonder about the accuracy of the rest of the article, if they can't even get that right...


----------



## MPSHIELD (28 Oct 2005)

> What I kinda find surprising is that the CTS staff didn't try and find a "Made in Canada" hydration system.



Very true, but i trust CAMELBAK gear. But is begs the question, is there a Canadian company that does Hydration systems? If so, how do they compare?

Just a thought


----------



## The_Falcon (28 Oct 2005)

MPSHIELD said:
			
		

> Very true, but i trust CAMELBAK gear. But is begs the question, is there a Canadian company that does Hydration systems? If so, how do they compare?
> 
> Just a thought



Platypus is used by MEC and Wheelers, although I am not sure if that specific brand is Canadian.  Although I like the idea of using camelbak, it shows there are at least a few higher ups with the cajones to say "no we do not need to find a made in Canada solution for this with endless trials to go with the procurement.  There is already a very good product on the market right now, it works,  and alot of troops already use it anyways."  Now if only they could start doing that with some other products.


----------



## teddy49 (30 Oct 2005)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Another tangent, but what the heck is this? From the original article:
> 
> 20th Regiment???   W Battery belongs to the Artillery SCHOOL, not the "20th Regiment RCA (CTC)." There's no 20th Regiment at CTC; not even in the Atlantic Area.
> 
> There's no excuse for this. This isn't some civvie reporter walking off the street; this is an ARMY article. Makes you wonder about the accuracy of the rest of the article, if they can't even get that right...



That is weird, cause 20th regiment RCA is a militia regiment in Edmonton, with a subordinate battery in Red Deer


----------



## MPSHIELD (31 Oct 2005)

> Platypus is used by MEC and Wheelers, although I am not sure if that specific brand is Canadian.  Although I like the idea of using camelbak, it shows there are at least a few higher ups with the cajones to say "no we do not need to find a made in Canada solution for this with endless trials to go with the procurement.  There is already a very good product on the market right now, it works,  and alot of troops already use it anyways."  Now if only they could start doing that with some other products.



Hatchet Man-Well said.


----------



## Daidalous (31 Oct 2005)

The gym in Trenton has a civy  version of the new snow shoes.   We used them in  the winter during PT,  and might I say  there was no stepping on my tails  at all.    And the teeth on the bottoms work great for climbing  hills, no more walking sideways .


On the rest of the kit,  haven't seen it,  no opinion yet


----------



## armyvern (31 Oct 2005)

Daidalous said:
			
		

> The gym in Trenton has a civy   version of the new snow shoes.     We used them in   the winter during PT,   and might I say   there was no stepping on my tails   at all.      And the teeth on the bottoms work great for climbing   hills, no more walking sideways .On the rest of the kit,   haven't seen it,   no opinion yet



Well the Military version sucks and they are on freeze right now by CANFORGEN...must fix them before we can wear them!! Now a CFFET and MSA item vice on your Clothing Docs.


----------



## Daidalous (5 Nov 2005)

Man who in the hell buys all the crap stuff that we get,   if the civy version works great than buy the dam thing,  stop messing around with  what works.


As per having the snow shoes only issued out via a MSA  I can see pros and cons to that.


----------



## armyvern (5 Nov 2005)

Daidalous said:
			
		

> As per having the snow shoes only issued out via a MSA   I can see pros and cons to that.


CFFET and MSA. Therefore all the 1st line field Units will have them right in their QM as part of their CFFET to issue out to personnel of their Units during the duration of their posting there.
The rest uf us Base dwellers will get them from the MSA should we do snow-shoeing for PT etc...

Seems fine to me...the people who will actually require them routinely will have them. I see no problems with this set-up (except for the actual snowshoe being crap).


----------



## George Wallace (5 Nov 2005)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Seems fine to me...the people who will actually require them routinely will have them. I see no problems with this set-up (except for the actual snowshoe being crap).


With these new Snowshoes, has the Dept of Indian Affairs made any comment on the loss of livelihood to the Native Reserve who had produced the Aluminium ones for decades to the Forces (The ones that are now being sold in some Cdn Tire stores.)?


----------



## armyvern (5 Nov 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> With these new Snowshoes, has the Dept of Indian Affairs made any comment on the loss of livelihood to the Native Reserve who had produced the Aluminium ones for decades to the Forces (The ones that are now being sold in some Cdn Tire stores.)?


George, our new snow-shoes are being produced by GV Snowshoes, est 1959. The factory and head office  are located in the Huron Wendat Reserve in Quebec. 

http://www.gvsnowshoes.com/eng/index.html


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

Oh thanks for the website.  I now have a place to tell them what crap they are.  Serious utter crap.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

where abouts do you see them armyvern or are they a special order?


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

That reminds me I need to put in a UCR for all the good it will do.


----------



## armyvern (6 Nov 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> That reminds me I need to put in a UCR for all the good it will do.



Geez CFL...3 posts for this??  

Ours are a special order. No need putting in a UCR...the message is already out not to use them until the plastic crampons are replaced with metal ones. It's discussed on this thread:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26212.0.html

As for e-mailing the company....don't bother..it was a contract spec problem on PWGSCs part. They didn't specify "metal crampons" so guess what? They didn't get metal crampons on the delivered snowshoes. It sucks but it's not the supplier's mistake...


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

I don't have a problem with the crampons (we have metal ones).  I have a problem with them snapping on the frame.  Many, many, many pairs have broken under moderate use.  Imagine pulling a heavy tobaggon in deep snow when your snowshoe breaks.


----------



## armyvern (6 Nov 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I don't have a problem with the crampons (we have metal ones).   I have a problem with them snapping on the frame.   Many, many, many pairs have broken under moderate use.   Imagine pulling a heavy tobaggon in deep snow when your snowshoe breaks.


I believe that 2RCR experienced quite the same thing with their snow shoes before the message to cease use came out. Just not a very good piece of kit, plain and simple.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

I would like to see that in writing (not to use) and the reissue of the old stuff (which hasn't happened yet).


----------



## armyvern (6 Nov 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I would like to see that in writing (not to use) and the reissue of the old stuff (which hasn't happened yet).


CFL,
I will go in to work today to pull up the refs for you. PM me your e-mail address.


----------



## George Wallace (6 Nov 2005)

These new snowshoes are once again proof that people who don't know what they are talking about, are making decisions that they shouldn't and turn out to be a monumental waste of DND funding.  I learned early as a young Boy Scout in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, in 1967, after purchasing a pair of these from Eatons on Main Street, as they were all they had left in stock, that they were crap.  I needed snowshoes for a Winter Camping expedition.  I bought these "Snowmobile Snowshoes" and went out to find that without 'Trails' (or 'Tails', depending on who taught you to snowshoe.) they had a terrible tendency to flop all over the place and slow me down immensely in following all the guys who had snowshoes with "Trails" that kept their snowshoes properly aligned.  

Yes, these would be great snowshoes for those too lazy to take their snowshoes off to operate a snowmobile, but they are totally useless to Infantry pulling toboggans.  

Without the Trails, how do you store them outside your tent group?  Usually that was done by forming a 'fence' of snowshoes stuck in the snow near your ruck.  How do you take them and make a lounge chair in the snow, by sticking the trail through the other and relaxing?  How do you 'toboggan' down a steep hill, by resting on the trails and slidding down?  

Whoever passed these "Snowmobiler's Snowshoes" definitely had not done any serious snowshoeing in their life.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

I liked the grip on the new ones (metal crampons).  The buckles are plastic though and as I mentioned the frame broke very easily.  I did also like the set up for wearing them and had now issue moving in the snow when they were working.


----------



## armyvern (6 Nov 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I liked the grip on the new ones (metal crampons).   The buckles are plastic though and as I mentioned the frame broke very easily.   I did also like the set up for wearing them and had now issue moving in the snow when they were working.



CFL...e-mail sent


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (6 Nov 2005)

recieved


----------



## 62whoknew (7 Nov 2005)

Can you tell I'm running out if s**t jobs...I joined this site...
The snowshoes work as follows-great on lake surfaces
                                           -good on soft "not so deep" snow
                                           -suck on wind hardened snow; slopes are the worst
                                           -the cleets you have to remove in order to walk without tripping,
                                             are the only things keepin the shoe from snapping in half
                                           -not good in wooded areas; any deadfall under the snow and kiss the 
                                             "super-strong" frame good by
                                           -hope you don't plan on FMO of 100lbs+
                                           -straps get wet and freeze...hope you're used to fighting with them on
                                           -oh and.....did anyone notice where I dropped the skin and cartilage
                                             from my shins :crybaby:
Can maybe the ppl who get to use this amazing Kings Issue Temporary be involved in these indepth and expensive trials?


----------



## eric e (21 Jan 2006)

it may be a spec issue to get plastic crampons instead of metal, but would anyone think plastic crampons would support a 200lb soldier on sloped ice? :-\ :-\

do the GV snowshoes made for the canadian army look anything like these ones

   http://groups.msn.com/2wheelsgood/gvsnowshoes.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=793

i'm having a real problem with the alloy rivets on mine failing so i hope yours don't have the same rivets 

  eric e :boring:


----------



## Lerch (25 Jan 2006)

Has anyone seen some detailed pictures of the CADPAT (WO)? I remember seeing this little thumbnail a little while back.
Will it be like the older winter-whites (pullovers) and just have the digital print or will their be more?


----------



## MPSHIELD (25 Jan 2006)

Lerch,
Not sure if this is what you were referring to. 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21490.0.html

If it is, from the info I have come across, it is just parka and pants shell and a rucksack cover that is will be produced in CADPAT WO. There might be someone with more info out there however.

Cheers


----------



## Fusaki (31 Jan 2006)

> I would like to see that in writing (not to use) and the reissue of the old stuff (which hasn't happened yet).



A couple days ago Dukes Coy (and I assume the rest of 1RCR) turned in the new snowshoes and were re-issued the old ones.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (31 Jan 2006)

WB could you look into whether there is something offical about this.  Thanks.


----------



## armyvern (31 Jan 2006)

There was official message traffic cut on this re-call last year. I will attempt to find an electronic copy to post on the thread.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (31 Jan 2006)

PLEASE do.
P.S.  Have you gotten any of my PM's AV


----------



## armyvern (31 Jan 2006)

If you are talking about your double-sent item. Yes it was recd. Email has been sent off with promised response this week from them.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (1 Feb 2006)

I'm not sure?? I asked about the body armour as well as if there was a NSN on black paracord.
Sorry haven't heard from you and thought you were screening your calls (so to speak).


----------



## armyvern (1 Feb 2006)

CFL said:
			
		

> black paracord.


Hey!! I forgot about this one!! But it's still in there amongst the millions...I don't think there is but will confirm tomorrow. Don't feel bad. I just responded last week to a Tess query from like November I think it was!! Ask me easy ones I don't have to look up!! All my SMEs are in bed sleeping right now!!


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (1 Feb 2006)

rgr that
I figured you being the boss you'd be playing mah-jongg all day. ;D


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (1 Feb 2006)

The reason for the body armour question is that if you can confirm for me I plan on writing the gov't to see what can be done to change it.  Thanks again.


----------



## armyvern (1 Feb 2006)

CFL said:
			
		

> rgr that
> I figured you being the boss you'd be playing mah-jongg all day. ;D


It's PER writing season....come on who's got time for Mahjongg?


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (1 Feb 2006)

"It's PER writing season"
the beauty of being a CFL.

don't suppose you want a posting to would ya.  I think you'd love how they do business here.


----------



## eric e (1 Feb 2006)

follow up on my broken gv snowshoes

after a few emails gv came good and posted me all the bits i needed to repair/upgrade my plastic snowshoes from weak alloy rivets to stainless bolts  eric e ;D



			
				eric e said:
			
		

> it may be a spec issue to get plastic crampons instead of metal, but would anyone think plastic crampons would support a 200lb soldier on sloped ice? :-\ :-\
> 
> do the GV snowshoes made for the canadian army look anything like these ones
> 
> ...


----------

