# Married couples and children



## Kyydd (29 Jul 2005)

I was just wondering if anyone out there has had the opportunity to meet or be a married couple that has enrolled in the canadian airforce together with children.

My husband has served 15 years previously and now at the age of 45 has come to realize that time is ticking and he has now begun to think about his pension.  Well, as we all know, returning to the forces has now regained his attention.

Myself as a career person, has given it alot of thought about joining the air force as a RMS Clerk while the re-enrolls.  We have two children aged 7 and 11 and was wondering if anyone has experienced this.  How committed is the military in making sure that the family stays together or is there no question?

Our concern is the children of course.  If I stay at home while he does his basic training and trades training he will then be posted to a base.  I would send the children up where he is while I do my basic
and trades.  What are the chances that the air force will also need a RMS Clerk at the same base that
he is posted??  I hate to think that I would send the boys up with him for six months while I did my training then change them to be with me when I am done to where I am posted for a year or so until
something comes available either where I am or he is then have to move them yet again.

We were at the recruitment center yesterday and spoke with them there and he showed us a sheet that
gives you the numbers that are required for each trade and it states on there that RMS Clerk (836) only
requires "one" to be filled.  He stated that this number changes all the time.  Is there usually a demand
for this trade?

I know that what they tell you at the recruitment center and what actually happens can be very different.  So I was wondering if anyone has experienced this sort of thing and how they managed.  My husband has been telling me so much about the CF that he has me scared of where I will be in twenty years..LOL

Thank you so much for any input.

Julia


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## shlindz (29 Apr 2008)

I have searched for this thread for a while. Time to revive and hopefully get it booming.

Hi
My husband and I are in the process of joining the CF (Reg force) together. Currently we are living together and have been for almost 5 years. We are relatively young (21 & 25) and have a dog and a cat. My husband would like to be in the infantry and I  a cook. We have one dog and one cat and no children. 
I'm looking for some more information from service couples. How did you do your training and what kind of time line did you make for yourselves? My husband and I feel that both leaving at relatively the same time makes the best sense to us. Any arguments for or against this? Where do your belongings go? How often will I see my husband during our training? These questions are pretty simple but I doubt the answers are. I have a feeling that most of the answers are case specific. However, any general knowledge at this point would be helpful to this scarce topic.

Thank you in advance,
Lindsey


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## Jack Nastyface (19 May 2008)

Lindsey, please bear in mind that there is absolutely no guarantee that, should you both be enrolled and sucessfully pass BMQ, you will be posted to the same geographic area. Cook is a "purple" trade so you may find yourself posted to a ship or an air base. You can give your posting preferences to your respective Career Managers and they will try and accomodate you. However, please bear in mind that "The needs of the service outweigh the needs of the individual." I have known married couples in the CF who have been posted apart for 5+ years. You pays your money, you takes your chances.


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## shlindz (20 May 2008)

Thank you Jack,

Since writing my original post I have learned a lot of information. In fact, I even received a job offer. I'm leaving for BMQ in 4 weeks time. My husband also received an offer. However, he broke his hand and has to wait. He should be able to leave shortly after myself. I'm pleased to say we were both offered the jobs we requested. Furthermore, I even got the element (land) that I requested. However, I understand the CF is my employer and they will post me where they see fit. I agree that there are no guarantees, in military or civilian life. I'm pretty good at going with the flow and I can now use the search function successfully. So to answer some of my previous questions for those who might stumble upon this thread:



			
				shlindz said:
			
		

> Where do your belongings go?


For a married couple both joining the CF your belongings are the responsibility of the second person to leave for BMQ. Neither my husband nor I have left yet, therefore we are not sure about the details of this agreement. From what we have been told the CF will cover storage under certain conditions. There are minimum requirements of items thats must be met. For example, we have a one bedroom apartment full. This meets the minimum. Whereas someone with just one room (ie a bedroom) of stuff would not meet the minimum.



			
				shlindz said:
			
		

> How often will I see my husband during our training?


I have realized this question cannot be answered. It also doesn't matter. I won't be spending my time in St. Jean looking for my husband. I'll see him when I see him. Most likely when BMQ is all said and done, maybe even longer. Don't want to give anybody and false hope of a big romantic getaway together.

Thanks again Jack
Hopefully this helps all the other curious wives and husbands out there

Lindsey


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## aesop081 (20 May 2008)

shlindz said:
			
		

> Furthermore, I even got the element (land) that I requested.



No. You have been allocated the Distinct Environmental Uniform you asked for. This has no bearing on the location and type of employment you will have in your trade.

edited for spelling


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## Eye In The Sky (20 May 2008)

FWIW

*IF* you are both in St-Jean together, and *IF* you are thru the 4 week Indoctrination period and *IF* both of your platoons are given weekend leave and *IF * you are not part of the Duty detail then you *MAY* be able to see each other for some always important *Marriage Maintenance / Personal Morale Exercises  * ;D from approx 1800 hrs Friday - 1800 hrs Sunday.  If you ask at the Comfort Inn (don't worry, the cabs know how to get there...) for a room in the 'quiet' part of the hotel, you can get them.  If you aren't up hammered until zero-dark-stupid Friday night/Saturday morning and/or Saturday night/Sunday morning, you can get to the jacuzzi first thing and actually have the entire pool/jacuzzi to yourselves too.  There is also another nice hotel by the river that has suites with HUGE Jacuzzi tubs (fits 2 people easily) but they are alittle more pricey but worth it every now and then...if you can afford it.  And the younger "full of liquid-stupid" crowd didn't seem to gravitate there so much/at all.

Life is the CF is all what you make of it.   ;D


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## shlindz (20 May 2008)

*CDN Aviator*- Oh my gosh. I didn't know the element was for uniform purposes. I assumed it was for primary employment choice. Thank you so much for clarifying that. I feel silly for just assuming.

*Eye In The Sky*- I'm realizing more and more how slim to none my chances of seeing my husband are. Although the romantic jacuzzi adventure sounds so desirable. Maybe I'll just go by myself and get pampered. I won't even have to worry about waking up early. I can count on one hand how many times a year I pick up a drink. Let alone drink enough to stupefy myself. 
I find this comment rather amusing:


			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> There is also another nice hotel by the river that has suites with HUGE Jacuzzi tubs (fits 2 people easily) but they are alittle more pricey but worth it every now and then...if you can afford it.  And the younger "full of liquid-stupid" crowd didn't seem to gravitate there so much/at all.


I consider myself apart of that younger crowd. Just negative on the liquid-stupid. Thanks for the compliment.  

Lindsey


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## Eye In The Sky (20 May 2008)

Don't be too discouraged.  All of those "ifs" mean...there is no promise/guaruntee and those things I mentioned are the things that will have a bearing on if/when you see him.  Its not as bleak as it sounds and NORMALLY after the Indoc month, you are off on the weekends.


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## armyvern (20 May 2008)

shlindz said:
			
		

> *CDN Aviator*- Oh my gosh. I didn't know the element was for uniform purposes. I assumed it was for primary employment choice. Thank you so much for clarifying that. I feel silly for just assuming.



Welcome to the world of purple trades where the uniform colour is "usually" a personal choice that is granted when we request it, but employment "choice" within a specific element is better indicated by our "posting choices" (of which, you'll be asked to indicate 3 places) --- from which 3 "preference choices" the career shop will attempt to take into consideration. You may get one of the three --- you may not.

Last QL3 course from my trade went to Pet, Halifax and Esquimault exclusively, regardless of "posting preference" and regardless of uniform colour. That's because that's where the CF needed them to go. 

Hopefully, you both put down the same posting choices in the same order ... and that the CF has slots available for both of your trades in one of those places. If they do, they'll post you together -- if they don't, they _may_ not (but Units being MMO in purple trades to "accomodate" MSCs isn't unheard of either -- or my current Unit wouldn't be short 18 personnel who are "posted out with no replacement" so that some wives could be posted to Units that are "over strength" simply to keep couples together [for their morale] at the expense of those of us left there [and at the expense of _our _ morale] to still get 100% of the work done). 

Hopefully it all works out for you both. Hopefully, you'll both get posted to the same location, or at least be posted somewhere within range of each other that you can hook up on the weekends at one of the locations. Been there, done that.

Vern


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## shlindz (20 May 2008)

*Eye In The Sky*- Thanks. I'm not too worried. I'm in love with my husband and I don't need to see him everyday to remind myself. Although, we'll see how I really feel after 4 weeks. 

*ArmyVern*- Thanks for breaking it down even further for me. I am glad my trade (861-cook) is a purple trade. It assures me that it is possible to be posted where my husband will be or close to it. My husband would like to join the infantry and I think they like to eat.  
However, I'm concerned with the other possibilities that have been brought to my attention. (Please tell me if I'm out of bounds) In your experienced opinion what is the likelihood of being posted on a boat? Submarine? Airplane? Airport? Is it more or less than someone preferring those elements? Do they take into consideration your preference? I'm just trying to clarify some of the thoughts floating in my head. I'm really not as paranoid as it sounds  

Lindsey


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## Eye In The Sky (20 May 2008)

Each individual situation is different, and the needs change from day to day/week to week/month to month etc...FWIW a buddy of mine is posted to Greenwood after just finishing his 5s and his wife just finished her QL3 cook course...and got posted to Greenwood.  It CAN happen its just not guaranteed to happen.


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## armyvern (20 May 2008)

shlindz said:
			
		

> *Eye In The Sky*- Thanks. I'm not too worried. I'm in love with my husband and I don't need to see him everyday to remind myself. Although, we'll see how I really feel after 4 weeks.
> 
> *ArmyVern*- Thanks for breaking it down even further for me. I am glad my trade (861-cook) is a purple trade. It assures me that it is possible to be posted where my husband will be or close to it. My husband would like to join the infantry and I think they like to eat.
> However, I'm concerned with the other possibilities that have been brought to my attention. (Please tell me if I'm out of bounds) In your experienced opinion what is the likelihood of being posted on a boat? Submarine? Airplane? Airport? Is it more or less than someone preferring those elements? Do they take into consideration your preference? I'm just trying to clarify some of the thoughts floating in my head. I'm really not as paranoid as it sounds
> ...



Well, one could always look at it the bright way ...

There are less cook positions on a ship than there are on an Army base I suppose. 

They will consider your choices, and your marital status to the extent that if they can put you both together -- they will. They just may not do so if it means the possible affecting of operational status of another location by leaving another Unit short of tradesmen required. The norm is to have spouses co-located, familial seperation is not the goal -- togetherness is ... sometimes though, it's just not possible.


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## zorro (20 May 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Welcome to the world of purple trades where the uniform colour is "usually" a personal choice that is granted when we request it, but employment "choice" within a specific element is better indicated by our "posting choices" (of which, you'll be asked to indicate 3 places) --- from which 3 "preference choices" the career shop will attempt to take into consideration. You may get one of the three --- you may not.



This may be a little off-topic but just wanted to weigh in here...

Being LOG I am also considered a purple trade and thus can be posted pretty much anywhere I am needed. Although my experience with this type of thing is limited, I am under the impression that your first posting will be (manning conditions permitting) to a base that coincides with your environmental uniform. I say this through personal experience regarding the following:

My initial posting choices included:
3 wing, 4 wing, 5 wing, 8 wing, 12 wing, 14 wing, 15 wing, 16 wing, 17 wing, 19 wing, and 22 wing.

From those I made my 3 requests. As you can see, none included environmental areas other than Air.

Just something to keep in mind when contemplating where you will end up...


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## Eye In The Sky (20 May 2008)

zorro said:
			
		

> This may be a little off-topic but just wanted to weigh in here...
> 
> Being LOG I am also considered a purple trade and thus can be posted pretty much anywhere I am needed. Although my experience with this type of thing is limited, I am *under the impression * that your first posting* will* be (manning conditions permitting) to a base that coincides with your environmental uniform. I say this through personal experience regarding the following:
> 
> ...



But you've said pretty much what ArmyVern and everyone else has...when you put in the line I underlined.   ;D

As for the bolded parts...'under the impression' is meaningless without something to back it up.  AKA speculation.  Speculation can be misleading to the newer folks who don't understand all the little things in the Service.  "WILL" is basically the same as SHALL in mil-speak, which is imperative.  In this case, nothing is imperative other than the needs of the CF will be the trump card if it means a high Pri manning position will be vacant IAW the VCDS Manning Priority....blah blah blah you already know that.  It would seemingly be more appropriate to say MAY?  Maybe I am picking flyshit out of pepper.  

Requests meaning 'posting preferences'?  And..just because you put Wings down as your 3 posting preferences, you could have still be posted to Pet/Edmonton/FLog etc.  If your arse hurts when you sit down, might want to check it for a horseshoe!


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## armyvern (20 May 2008)

zorro said:
			
		

> This may be a little off-topic but just wanted to weigh in here...
> 
> Being LOG I am also considered a purple trade and thus can be posted pretty much anywhere I am needed. Although my experience with this type of thing is limited, I am under the impression that your first posting will be (manning conditions permitting) to a base that coincides with your environmental uniform. I say this through personal experience regarding the following:
> 
> ...



Like I said in my original post -- the last QL3s course in my trade saw everyone posted to the Navy -- or Pet -- irregardless of thier uniform colour. All 3 colours went to both those Naval locations listed and to that Army one listed.

Rumour has it -- the next bunch through (regardless of uniform colour) can expect to be making Edmonton or Pet their homes. Apparently, that's where they are now needed --- which should trump marital status (or uniform colour) every time.

The previous few courses saw naval and air come into us off their QL3s. I guess it all depends upon your trade ... and it's release rate and Op tempo rate. I've heard rumours for years about attempts to put people to their enviornment upon initial posting -- hasn't seemed to have become even close to reality in my purple trade yet.


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## zorro (20 May 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> But you've said pretty much what ArmyVern and everyone else has...when you put in the line I underlined.   ;D



Granted. Was just trying to say that in my experience they (seemingly) TRY to match you w/ your environmental uniform.



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> As for the bolded parts...'under the impression' is meaningless without something to back it up.  AKA speculation.  Speculation can be misleading to the newer folks who don't understand all the little things in the Service.  "WILL" is basically the same as SHALL in mil-speak, which is imperative.  In this case, nothing is imperative other than the needs of the CF will be the trump card if it means a high Pri manning position will be vacant IAW the VCDS Manning Priority....blah blah blah you already know that.  It would seemingly be more appropriate to say MAY?  Maybe I am picking flyshit out of pepper.
> 
> Requests meaning 'posting preferences'?  And..just because you put Wings down as your 3 posting preferences, you could have still be posted to Pet/Edmonton/FLog etc.  If your arse hurts when you sit down, might want to check it for a horseshoe!



Flyshit out of pepper...Haha, I'll try to watch my choice of words a little more closely. Yes I was refering to posting preferences as the three choices, and I am aware that I could go anywhere. 

Also, as I said I am basing this information on my own experience....which I think is sufficient for what I've posted here. I was provided with a list of WINGS to choose from when making my posting preference selections, which is what leads me to believe that it would be preferrable to post me within my environmental uniform. My friend who is also LOG but Army environment was given a list of Army bases.

It is well known that the needs of the service come before our own, I'd be interested to hear from ArmyVern in regards to what posting options were provided to those that finished their respective courses prior to being placed? IE. It doesn't seem rational to provide one with a list of base options to request and then post them somewhere else. If the manning needs/deficiencies are already known, would these individuals not be provided request choices for places they will feasibly end up?


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## Eye In The Sky (20 May 2008)

zorro said:
			
		

> Flyshit out of pepper...Haha, I'll try to watch my choice of words a little more closely.



I meant *I* was the one doin' the pickin'...not you  



> It is well known that the needs of the service come before our own, I'd be interested to hear from ArmyVern in regards to what posting options were provided to those that finished their respective courses prior to being placed? IE. It doesn't seem rational to provide one with a list of base options to request and then post them somewhere else. If the manning needs/deficiencies are already known, *would these individuals not be provided request choices for places they will feasibly end up*?



While I 100% agree this might be the better way to do it, I haven't heard of this being a regular thing.  I've heard of many ways of people sorting out where they are going, most recently being a friend who was on a 3s course after an OT, and the CM sent the school 13 available billets at X amount of bases (all Wings) and wanted the list of who was going where...so basically it ended up with the new tech's being very involved and everyone pretty much ended up with what they want.  I'd never heard of that before so...I guess anything is possible!


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## PMedMoe (20 May 2008)

In my experience, one's element had nothing to do with it.  When I finished my Med A QL3 course, we all filled out our posting preferences.  Then we were given the choice East (read Petawawa) or West (read Edmonton).  I think only one person on the whole course got a posting other than those two.  He got Moose Jaw as he was the only person to have put a preference in that area (he had chosen Winnipeg as one of his).


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## Jack Nastyface (20 May 2008)

A good friend of mine is a Chaplain (aka "The Bish", "Sin Bos'n" or "God Botherer") who wears an air force uniform. In 24 years he has served in ships and on army bases. You guessed it, never posted to a Wing or an air force billet. ;D


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## armyvern (20 May 2008)

zorro said:
			
		

> It is well known that the needs of the service come before our own, I'd be interested to hear from ArmyVern in regards to what posting options were provided to those that finished their respective courses prior to being placed? IE. It doesn't seem rational to provide one with a list of base options to request and then post them somewhere else. If the manning needs/deficiencies are already known, would these individuals not be provided request choices for places they will feasibly end up?



Although I think I already answered this previously ...

The last QL3s course from my purple trade was posted to Esquimault, Halifax and Petawawa _exclusively_ -- irregardless of what their uniform colour was or what their posting preferences were. They received their posting messages at the end of their course, after their "preferences" were submitted -- much the same as it works for any course.

Some were blue -- and I'd wager that they didn't list their choices as Pet, Esquimault, Halifax (in that order OR ANY order), but there they sit. And, I know one Army gent from the course who requested Edmonton --- but didn't get that OR Pet (the only Army base on the list of the three locs they were all sent to) either -- he's right here in the town where I sit tonight -- a Navy town. 

Tell me who would ask for Pet or Esquimault given a choice with Halifax as an option? Some would -- but certainly not enough to fill all the empty slots at the Army base and the expensive base. Nice thought -- but it doesn't reflect reality.


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## Sub_Guy (21 May 2008)

I wouldn't worry too much about being co-located with your spouse.  During my last Career Managers' visit he stated that they do everything in their power to co-locate service couples and that 99% of the time they are successful.  He also mentioned that when he has to post someone on IR he would have to explain the situation to the Colonel.

If you are going as a purple trade and your husband is an Infanteer you should have no issues at all with being posted in the same spot.  As everyone has already stated on here, be aware that you could find your self at one point in your career posted away from your spouse.

Problems arise for service couples when they are of two trades that are not posting compatible.  Example  Any Naval Combat trade married to an Infanteer

By choosing a purple trade you are making it much easier for the military to co-locate you with your spouse


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## armyvern (21 May 2008)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> I wouldn't worry too much about being co-located with your spouse.  During my last Career Managers' visit he stated that they do everything in their power to co-locate service couples and that 99% of the time they are successful.  He also mentioned that when he has to post someone on IR he would have to explain the situation to the Colonel.
> 
> *If you are going as a purple trade and your husband is an Infanteer you should have no issues at all with being posted in the same spot.  As everyone has already stated on here, be aware that you could find your self at one point in your career posted away from your spouse.*
> 
> ...



Step back into your lanes re your bold bit.

Been there, and done that.

They required my purple trade in my rank at a location (in another province) where there were no infantry positions period ... let alone those of my estranged's rank. Ergo -- Service Requirements saw me posted there IR.

It happens. More often than you seem to think. I can list numerous couples who fall into the purple/infantry spoouses category who've all been there and done that. At least, I was a little closer to my kids/estranged than my sister-in-law found herself (same trade as me) with 3 kids under 5 and her posted with them in Gagetown while my brother was in Edmonton (PPCLI) for 4 years.

It's already been stated MORE THAN ENOUGH times on this site that the CF will attempt to keep couples together, but SOMETIMES service requirements necessitate otherwise -- regardless of uniform type or trade. Let's be VERY clear on that point.


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## Sub_Guy (21 May 2008)

Step taken back into my lane.  Although I did grew up as a military brat and both parents wore the Log cap badge, and only once was there a separation and that only lasted a year.  

I too have "been there, done that" and I am about to do "that" again this summer, but both times were/are a direct result of personal request (ie. Submarine Training, I was sent on IR to conduct my training in Halifax). 

I also happen to have an Infanteer brother who is married to a RMS clerk (no issues yet).   We all know that co-locating issues do happen, but the feeling I was getting from the thread was doom and gloom, I can list numerous individuals that are on IR, some of them are in that position because of a direct request or a service spouse who refuses to leave a certain area (we know that happens).  

Starting out they should be fine, as they progress into more senior positions it could prove to be more difficult that's for sure.   The fact that one service member of a service couple is in a purple trade does make it easier for CM's in Ottawa to do their thing.  Obviously with rank and experience there are potential issues, but starting out both members should not have a problem being posted to the same location.


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## armyvern (21 May 2008)

Doom and gloom!!??

Every post prior to yours stated exactly that which you did. "That all attempts will be made to co-locate, but that sometimes it's not possible due to exengencies of the service".

Posting 2 Loggies together -- is WAY easier than posting a hard green/purple couple together. Why is that?? Because there are Loggies at every single base in Canada thus the possible locations and positions for them to be co-located at is much higher than that where a spouse is a hard green type.


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## Sub_Guy (21 May 2008)

Posting a Cook with an Infanteer should be just as easy regardless of what his badge is.


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## armyvern (21 May 2008)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Posting a Cook with an Infanteer should be just as easy regardless of what his badge is.



Do you not understand the concept that there are cooks at virtually every base, but that there are not Infanteers at every base? So no, it's NOT just as easy. It's much easier when you have many more posting locations (and thus available positions) to choose from -- and in the "two loggie" scenario ... there are a heck of a LOT more choices & options available for the career managers to keep that couple together ... somewhere (not necessarily at an ARMY base which is what a purple/hard green couple would be limited to).

My comment about "two loggies" was made as a direct response to your post about your "two loggie parents." <-- A TOTALLY different and uncomparable situation to the "Infanteer/purple" scenario.

As already stated, you posted absolutely nothing more to the thread than has already been stated here by everyone else numerous times ... 

the CF will attempt to keep couples together, but SOMETIMES service requirements necessitate otherwise -- regardless of uniform type or trade


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