# Life After the Army Experiences



## shooked1

I have always thought about going in tho the  military (nothing in the civilian world really interest me)  but one of my biggest concerns is what for some reason i could no longer be in the military would i be at a dead end because i only have a highschool diploma ???


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## blacktriangle

Who says when you get out that you will only have a HS diploma? 

There are a wide array of opportunities in the CF that will enable you to improve your education or gain technical skills.

Just some food for thought. I would suggest going to a recruiting centre to learn more.


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## Brasidas

shooked1 said:
			
		

> I have always thought about going in tho the  military (nothing in the civilian world really interest me)  but one of my biggest concerns is what for some reason i could no longer be in the military would i be at a dead end because i only have a highschool diploma ???



You're familiar with the fact that everybody in the army isn't an infanteer and everybody in the air force isn't a fighter pilot, right?

There are plenty of trades that the military trains people in. You decide which ones you're interested in, with criteria that can include things like how marketable your skills may be in civilian employment as well as how interesting you find the trade. The CF in turn lets you know which ones it's interested in letting you do.

Talk to folks, serving and released, about different trades you might be interested in.


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## SupersonicMax

Brasidas said:
			
		

> You're familiar with the fact that everybody in the army isn't an infanteer and everybody in the air force isn't a fighter pilot, right?



Are you saying a fighter pilot cannot easily transfer his skills in the civy world?


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## Brasidas

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Are you saying a fighter pilot cannot easily transfer his skills in the civy world?



I'm saying that not everyone in the military is combat arms, and that the military produces tradesmen.

I'm expecting even somebody who doesn't of think of non-infantry or armoured crewmen army trades will at least be smart enough to know that an ex-air force pilot is going to be able to find a job outside the military.


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## arwin

just curious.
for example, an infantry soldier (NCM) gets released after the set period of service, that applicant has only a high school diploma, so what kind of civilian career can that individual start right away? besides becoming a police officer. a well paid career.


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## CallOfDuty

Heres the link to the forces web site http://www.forces.ca/html/infantrysoldier_reg_en.aspx

  At the bottom of the page it reads " RELATED CIVILIAN OCCUPATIONS
The Infantry Soldier occupation is uniquely military and has no civilian equivalent; however, the experience Infantry Soldiers gain in the use and maintenance of vehicles, communications equipment, weapons and tools of all types is highly applicable to many civilian jobs. More important, an experienced Infantry Soldier has the self-confidence, integrity, loyalty and trustworthiness that good employers want. Infantry leadership skills are also highly desirable to civilian employers."


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## 1feral1

After I left of the Australian Regular Army one year ago,  I went directly into a civilian engineering firm, was hired on as an armourer ( all was prearranged so I literally went from green to blue from a Friday to the Monday - there was a bit of culture shock), getting paid more then I was a soldier, and to add more cream, I went into the Reserve system here, getting tax free pay at $182.04 for 6 hrs work. Easy money. Reserves get 70 days per year with extensions to 100 days, and can get further extentions at 150 and up to 200 days if needed with the correct justification. Soo add that on, say at least at 70 days, plus tax free field pay, and all the other perks.

As a Defence Contractor, I am still in the military family, and get to do my job, working on M242 chain guns, .50 QCB and the rest of the catalogued family of small arms, I just go home at the end of the day, missing all the BS politics.

The Corps of RAEME has vehicle mechanics, electricians (from everthing like appliances to dental eqpt, armourers, recovery mechanics), to sum if it is an eqpt that needs repaired, RAEME fixes it. So there is plenty of opportunities in the civilain world for former RAEME pers, who are not only trained in their specific trade, but also have the basic soldier and leadership skills which are overly admired on the outside.  There are many other skills too which are civilian accredited, and well sought after like OHS, and management.

Soldiers are generally well disciplined, punctual and professional, and create a sharp image thru dress and bearing.  

So after some good TI, leaving at the rank of SGT (E7), there is plenty of prosperous opportunitiy for former soldiers not only in RAEME but other trades.


Regards,

OWDU


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## ModlrMike

shooked1 said:
			
		

> I have always thought about going in tho the  military (nothing in the civilian world really interest me)  but one of my biggest concerns is what for some reason i could no longer be in the military would i be at a dead end because i only have a highschool diploma ???



Here's a tip I used to give my soldiers:

"The first day of retirement planning is the last day of your QL3."

It makes no sense to wait 20 or 25 years and then lament that you only have a high school diploma. That being said, your military experience can carry a lot of weight, but we're in an era where education is often more important to employers.

In short, what I'm saying is that it's up to you to seek the academic upgrading you will require to enhance your retirement options. There's plenty of time to complete it... provided you start early.


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## 421_434_226

OWDU
Does your company have any positions for a soon to be retired Canadian Forces person?
7 yrs EME Wpns Tech Land
6 yrs EME Fire Control Systems (now Electro/Optical)
7 yrs Aerospace Telecommunications Information Systems Tech


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## 1feral1

EME cousin,

Your quals would indeed be in demand, but accreditation on an Australian standard thru ALTC in Bandiana Vic would be necessary, especially small arms, one needs the Aust FAMT course, even I had to do that when I first come over 15 yrs ago. BHP, Minimi, MAG 58, .50 are common, but Steyr is in a class of its own, hence the FAMT (Fitter Armament Maintenance Techniques) course, covers this along with other weapons including M203PI. You can get RPL on the other wpns such as the 84mm, and 81 mortar. M4/M16 FOW too

You would also need a visa to work here, and thatis not easy, very costly etc andf there may be restrictions too if you are over 40, best to check this out thru searching immigration on the net.

I must get bck to my Coors lite.

Cheers,

OWDU


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## shooked1

thanks for your input 
 ;D


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## armychick2009

You could get a job at AECL (atomic energy canada limited, nuclear reactor) near Petawawa... be one of the guys/gals in the gray suits walking around with guns  

They get paid well, trust me!


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Corrections likes ya also.......


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## Ex-Dragoon

Scan seminars are held a couple of times a year to help you transition from you getting out and your life beyond. You would be advised to sign up before you release.


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## ModlrMike

SCAN is seriously flawed, and as currently constituted, a waste of effort. Here's my view...

SCAN should consist of at least three phases:

1. the young "soldier" who moves from BE to IE gets a seminar and gets introduced to the second career planning cycle. The sessions can include such things as skills and education upgrading, for example;

2. between 10 and 15 years service, a follow-up session is attended. This should allow for members to check their progress, and if necessary, get back on track while there's still time to do so; and

3. SCAN in a format similar to the current one that focuses on transition to civilian life.


I can't overstate my philosophy that retirement planning starts at the beginning of a career, not at the end.


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## shooked1

that is the main reason i started this thread. I am thinking a about going in the miitary but I began to think hat if god fobid anything happened to mw what type of options would i have or would i just be at a dead end


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## armychick2009

Shooked, you're only at a dead end if you choose to be at a dead end. Any trade/career with any workplace is the same way.  For example, I'm a graphic designer by trade... I've worked in the private sector, public sector, education sector, and hope to at some point in the very near soon future, use these skills in the army somewhere. I've had these jobs over a period of 12 years and meanwhile, operated my own business at the same time. I imagine any trade you learn in the forces you can find some kind of application in out-of-army life... most of your success or failure will be determined by you... don't worry about it too much, so much can change in 1 year, five years, twenty years or thirty... don't be naive and stop thinking about it, just don't let it determine whether you join the forces or not. Maybe find another trade that you think would give you more likely opportunities in the future. But personally? I'd go with the trade that makes you happy now....  (just my opinion for what it's worth)


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## Rigger7710(F)

shooked1 said:
			
		

> I have always thought about going in tho the  military (nothing in the civilian world really interest me)  but one of my biggest concerns is what for some reason i could no longer be in the military would i be at a dead end because i only have a highschool diploma ???


Like you, I wanted nothing else than being in the military, so I joined with only a high school diploma. I have never continued my education but that never stopped job offers from civilian companies. I have always turned them down and now I have retired after 32 years of regular force. I am still turning down job offers because now, I want nothing else than full retirement.   The bottom line is, ex-military people are desired in many civilian outfits because of the discipline (and other qualities gained from the CF) we have received in our training and that can't be found in non ex-military.


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## CallOfDuty

Hey there Rigger.  I see you were AVN.  Are you getting job offers in the same line of work?
    Heres a new question guys.  What trades in the military would you say is easiest to transfer over to Civillian DND jobs?  The one I see the most is MSE ops retiring and either going MDO drivers or CE groundskeepers.

   What about RMS clerks?  Do they roll over into CR3,4,5 jobs easily? I suppose med lab types would be easily transferred.


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## armychick2009

I know med techs that have their civilian paramedic course can become paramedics but some of the older ones who joined before it became standard, don't have this training. However, my ex has been offered work overseas in undisclosed locations (close to the non-existent camp) by companies there. Locally? I'm not sure... he'd need to up his training in order to be considered. (He's one of those older ones that don't yet have that course).

My brother is a supply tech. He's been in for two years... he's already had a standing job offer for an airline manufacturing company for the supply department. 

The trade I am going into... (hopefully!)... which I don't want to really announce on here yet as it's a small trade, has excellent job opportunities afterwards in a wide variety of fields. I was already in civilian life doing many of those jobs so I know that my position will be easily transferable.


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## mover1

Go to the recruiter ask for Traffic Tech. MOS ID # 0170.
It has, and can, and will give you tons of skills that transfrom easily on to civvie st. 
working with materials handling equipment, knowlege of Canada Customs procedures, you get taught the Sabre Airline Hosting system. (flight booking software) Shipping and receiving, Dangerous goods handling and receiving. Plus if your keen enough you can go flying as a loadmaster on the Herc's, C-17s, Airbuses and whatever else the Gov't is going to buy in a few years time. 
Lots of travel lots of work and loads of fun.


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## GeorgeD

Aerospace Telecommunication & Information Systems Technician- The Recruiter Will give you a list of Colleges that are accepted to the CF and you can apply to the College of your Choice, then put in application to the CF.

CF pays your college and a Salary, and you get the Experience that many companies look for.


Same applies for the following:

Aerospace Telecommunication & Information Systems Technician 
Biomedical Electronics Technologist 
Cook 
Dental Technician 
Electronic-Optronic Technician - Land 
Land Communication and Information Systems Technician 
Marine Engineering Mechanic 
Medical Laboratory Technologist 
Medical Radiation Technologist 
Naval Electronics Technician (Communications) 
Naval Electronics Technician (Radar) 
Naval Electronics Technician (Sonar) 
Naval Weapons Technician 
Vehicle Technician 


The end result is you get an education, and you do your job. Should you decide to leave the CF after 5 yeas, 10 years or 25 years you have this education.


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## old fart

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> SCAN is seriously flawed, and as currently constituted, a waste of effort. Here's my view...
> 
> SCAN should consist of at least three phases:
> 
> 1. the young "soldier" who moves from BE to IE gets a seminar and gets introduced to the second career planning cycle. The sessions can include such things as skills and education upgrading, for example;
> 
> 2. between 10 and 15 years service, a follow-up session is attended. This should allow for members to check their progress, and if necessary, get back on track while there's still time to do so; and
> 
> 3. SCAN in a format similar to the current one that focuses on transition to civilian life.
> 
> 
> I can't overstate my philosophy that retirement planning starts at the beginning of a career, not at the end.




Apart from a couple of presentation with regard to pension payment rules (if you are to get one), and some taxation aspects (RRSP transfer of severance pay) SCAN is a waste of taxpayers money. The only folks who derive any benefit are the crew that take the show on the road, both Canada and overseas. 

To be even more blunt, the CF offers no real transition for many (particularly Combat Arms folks) as they leave the CF for pastures new. While not SCAN related, the Education Reimbursement (ER) Program is aimed improvising your usefulness to the CF not your employability in Civvi street. "ER provides financial assistance to Regular Force officers and NCMs who, through part-time study, wish to upgrade their educational or professional qualifications in the interests of the CF. 

Even the Skill Enhancement Program (essentially upgrade your qualifications from your military MOS that have a civilian equivalent); try that on as Combat Engineer or infantryman etc. 
What would I like to see as a service leaver......A real career transition program, one that provides benefits tied to length of service.  

For instance, and as a minimum, less than ten years sit in on the briefings to get a pitch from Scotia Bank, resume help etc, basically as SCAN is now less the pension related presentations. 

With more than than 10 YOS and definitely at 20/25 YOS, graduated and increased transition benefits.  Essentially a real post CF re-training and job placement program.  This is totally lacking now.
Until our service members have such a benefit to prepare them for the civilian world the CF will continue to get off extremely light for the years of service contributed by the member. 

I saw SCAN for what it was years ago, nothing but a self licking ice cream for those that take it on the road no matter how well meaning the individuals who present are. 

The program is folks a pile of....well you know.  I think our service leavers deserve far more than what is offered now.  

If we had such a program, I firmly believe it would add to retention particularly of folks who serve a lifetime in the hard combat arms with no civilian equivalent employment, knowing that you can stay in those occupations for life as many do, and have a chance of getting gainful employment on exit from the CF.

Old fart...


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## Journeyman

The CF recruiting website lists civilian equivalences of all trades. Even those unique trades without direct civilian equivalencies, such as Infantry, note,





> The Infantry Soldier occupation is uniquely military and has no civilian equivalent; however, the experience Infantry Soldiers gain in the use and maintenance of vehicles, communications equipment, weapons and tools of all types is highly applicable to many civilian jobs. *More important,* an experienced Infantry Soldier has the self-confidence, integrity, loyalty and trustworthiness that good employers want. Infantry leadership skills are also highly desirable to civilian employers.*



As for the comment: 





			
				old fart said:
			
		

> I firmly believe it [an effective second-career program] would add to retention


...are you serious? 
You believe that helping people get out of the CF completely will somehow, _miraculously_ aid in their staying in?  

Just look at the heartache and hand-wrining in this thread concerning people transferring from RegF to Reserve...within the same military! With that thread's arguments in mind, actively helping the troops take their skills completely away from the military will miraculously convince them to stay in is some leap of logic. :stars: 


I do agree whole-heartedly, however, that the SCAN program is a cash-wasting piece of crap. 
I also feel that if you're not able to market yourself, given the training and experience the CF already provides its personnel, no amount of SCAN PowerPoints are likely to help you. Sensitivity isn't my strong suit.



*** I'm sure they mean "more important_ly_." Despite joining the CF with a Gr 10 education, those 'benefits from the training and experience offered throughout my career' have learned me some stuff.


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## ModlrMike

old fart said:
			
		

> Apart from a couple of presentation with regard to pension payment rules (if you are to get one), and some taxation aspects (RRSP transfer of severance pay) SCAN is a waste of taxpayers money. The only folks who derive any benefit are the crew that take the show on the road, both Canada and overseas.



My thoughts exactly.



			
				old fart said:
			
		

> To be even more blunt, the CF offers no real transition for many (particularly Combat Arms folks) as they leave the CF for pastures new. While not SCAN related, the Education Reimbursement (ER) Program is aimed improvising your usefulness to the CF not your employability in Civvi street. "ER provides financial assistance to Regular Force officers and NCMs who, through part-time study, wish to upgrade their educational or professional qualifications in the interests of the CF.



Quite true, but the two goals don't have to be mutually exclusive. Increasing one's worth to the CF can greatly enhance post CF opportunities.



			
				old fart said:
			
		

> Even the Skill Enhancement Program (essentially upgrade your qualifications from your military MOS that have a civilian equivalent); try that on as Combat Engineer or infantryman etc.
> What would I like to see as a service leaver......A real career transition program, one that provides benefits tied to length of service.
> 
> For instance, and as a minimum, less than ten years sit in on the briefings to get a pitch from Scotia Bank, resume help etc, basically as SCAN is now less the pension related presentations.
> 
> With more than than 10 YOS and definitely at 20/25 YOS, graduated and increased transition benefits.  Essentially a real post CF re-training and job placement program.  This is totally lacking now.
> Until our service members have such a benefit to prepare them for the civilian world the CF will continue to get off extremely light for the years of service contributed by the member.



No reasons that can't be rolled into my proposals.



			
				old fart said:
			
		

> I saw SCAN for what it was years ago, nothing but a self licking ice cream for those that take it on the road no matter how well meaning the individuals who present are.
> 
> The program is folks a pile of....well you know.  I think our service leavers deserve far more than what is offered now.
> 
> If we had such a program, I firmly believe it would add to retention particularly of folks who serve a lifetime in the hard combat arms with no civilian equivalent employment, knowing that you can stay in those occupations for life as many do, and have a chance of getting gainful employment on exit from the CF.
> 
> Old fart...


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## old fart

Journeyman, I am quite happy on where I am going when I call it a day and with respects to the prospects available/offered to me.  

That chapter remains to be written but had a left at 20 years, (or even after 10-20) of my own volition I am sure I would have benefited from a better transition or meaningful program.

And as for retention, yes I do believe that a better program providing real transition services would help.

Yours aye.


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## CallOfDuty

mover1 said:
			
		

> Go to the recruiter ask for Traffic Tech. MOS ID # 0170.
> It has, and can, and will give you tons of skills that transfrom easily on to civvie st.
> working with materials handling equipment, knowlege of Canada Customs procedures, you get taught the Sabre Airline Hosting system. (flight booking software) Shipping and receiving, Dangerous goods handling and receiving. Plus if your keen enough you can go flying as a loadmaster on the Herc's, C-17s, Airbuses and whatever else the Gov't is going to buy in a few years time.
> Lots of travel lots of work and loads of fun.


   Hey mover.....I used to work for Air Canada, doing ramp work, and cargo work, etc etc.  I left there to join the military because of the job instability.  Are there any other cvillian jobs that  a traffic tech could do, besides working for Air Canada....or the no-name ramp/cargo workers?   Does DND employ civillian traffic techs?


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## Rigger7710(F)

CallOfDuty said:
			
		

> Hey there Rigger.  I see you were AVN.  Are you getting job offers in the same line of work?


Job offers started to come in when I was a MCpl. An aircraft manufacturer was the first to offer me a job at their plant.  Then, as a Sgt, more offers came in. This kept increasing as I went up in rank. I have received job offers by contractors to work hands-on on military aircraft overhauls and also on support staff jobs for same for maintenance records, QA, Technical Pub writer, and Tech pub manager. Some companies that manufactured some aircraft parts for the CF have approached me to go to work for them.  One airline company offered me a job as maintenance planner. I found out that many companies prefer ex-military over those with no military background. Higher education is not always the key to get good jobs.  Many of  us as military or ex-military often don't recognize our value to the job market and underestimate our possibilities.  Of course, the trade we're in is a big factor for the number of opportunities, but regardless, that is still true for any trade.  As for my decisions to refuse job offers, that was because I loved the military life so much that I wanted nothing else.  Nothing can top that, so I prefer being fully retired than going to work for a civvy outfit.


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## CallOfDuty

Thank you for your reply Rigger


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## armychick2009

Sort of slightly off base with this info but kind of relevant. 

There's a facebook group dedicated to military folk making the transition to civilian life... and they have a website. You can find the group by searching for "Military to Civvie Street: Job Insight" and her website is : http://www.resumeresources.ca

She is the spouse of a military member who helps with the transitioning. Maybe her site has some useful info.


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## mover1

CallOfDuty said:
			
		

> Hey mover.....I used to work for Air Canada, doing ramp work, and cargo work, etc etc.  I left there to join the military because of the job instability.  Are there any other cvillian jobs that  a traffic tech could do, besides working for Air Canada....or the no-name ramp/cargo workers?   Does DND employ civillian traffic techs?



Shipper receiver. pick a company
Travel agent.....look for employment
DND...yes we have civvies working with us.
there are tons of job openings right now with CATSA looking for people with experience to fill some of their higher paying jobs. (I have a buddy who just took one in T.O. he was a WO)
And a few others if your willing to look. sorry Air Canada didn't work out for you but seriously its a great trade.


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## CallOfDuty

Hey, I know what a good trade you have!  I wanted it from the get-go, but was told it was closed( didn't want to wait out).....I really enjoyed my job at AC.  I've met a few Tfc techs over  the years, and when asked about liking their jobs, I always got a positive answer.   The only complaint I've heard was that it was a little too operationally busy( time away from family).


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## GunSlingerr

Hello Everyone,

I recently made a switch on my application and decided to take the infantry soldier route. It's something that I've always wanted to do and I realize that I'm at the perfect point in my life to take full advantage of this opportunity and truly make a difference.

I know there aren't too many jobs that relate to the infantry soldier outside of the forces but if I choose to serve for say 5-10 years and decide that I'd like a different career, what careers should I consider? What careers did some of you choose to pursue? 

Having only finished half a degree in college, I'm not too sure I'd have many options. I apologize in advance if this question has been asked before, I've read around on the forums and found some insight on this topic but a lot of the answers are suggestions. What I'm more interested in is what others have experienced after life in the Army and the career paths that they took.

If anyone would like to chime in and share their experience, that would be great!


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## Inspir

DynCorp International is an option. My brother joined them when he released. Making very good money. However he is gone a lot.


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## GunSlingerr

I've never heard of them before. I'll have to look into that a little bit.


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## mariomike

GunSlingerr said:
			
		

> I know there aren't too many jobs that relate to the infantry soldier outside of the forces but if I choose to serve for say 5-10 years and decide that I'd like a different career, what careers should I consider?



This may help.

"an infantry soldier (NCM) gets released after the set period of service, that applicant has only a high school diploma, so what kind of civilian career can that individual start right away? besides becoming a police officer. a well paid career."
http://army.ca/forums/threads/91423/post-901702.html#msg901702


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## GreenWood

You can always go finish a degree...


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## Teager

I would suggest trying to get your education finished if at all possible. If you are ever injured your education will be one of the most important things you have. If you are injured yes your education may be paid for but that can be another few years before getting a new career. If you already have the education you will be ahead of the game plus you may be able to build on that education.

I'm giving you this advice as an injured member with only a high school diploma. I was a Combat Engineer and got a ton of experience but unfortunately my injuries don't allow for a labour job where the majority of experience would come in handy. Just my  :2c:


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## stealthylizard

Don't burn any bridges to jobs you hold prior to enlisting in the military.  They may be useful after you have decided the military isn't the life you thought it would be.  I was hired back within a week of leaving the military, 3 years after I had quit.  The work didn't last long, but I got a referral from my boss to try a different position in the company, and the map reading skills I learned through the infantry came in handy.

Simply having military service on your resume may be enough to get your foot in the door, even if your service has no direct transferable skills.  Employers like people that can work without supervision, are punctual, can pay attention to detail, and listen rather than speak - which are all skills picked up through service.


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## The Bread Guy

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> Simply having military service on your resume may be enough to get your foot in the door, even if your service has no direct transferable skills.  Employers like people that can work without supervision, are punctual, can pay attention to detail, and listen rather than speak - which are all skills picked up through service.


For sure - for a touch more info along these lines ....


> Although this occupation has no direct related civilian job, *the experience, skills and leadership abilities developed in this position are highly valued by employers.*


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## daftandbarmy

IMHO, if you are going to attempt the Infantry you should focus 100% on that. 

Anyone going into the toughest job in the world - rifleman - to see what they can get out if it, apart from an opportunity to close with and destroy the enemy, should probably think again.

It is not a given that you will pass, believe me.


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## GunSlingerr

Thanks for the info and tips everyone. I appreciate it. I'll look into things some more but right now my main focus is on getting ready for the infantry.


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## daftandbarmy

GunSlingerr said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info and tips everyone. I appreciate it. I'll look into things some more but right now my main focus is on getting ready for the infantry.



HUA!!!  

Go get 'em... and have a great time. It's the best job there is (for those much younger than myself, of course  ;D)


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## freddie.v

I joined up in 2006 after dropping out of engineering school.  I hated what I was studying, and at the time Armoured School seemed like the right thing for me, as did fighting in Afghanistan.  I did all that, even got to go to Germany (twice) and travel all over Canada.  I'm glad I got to experience all of that without having to limit myself by trying so hard to preserve my future.  Don't worry about life after the military.  You'll have time to deal with that when you get there.  Just focus on where you are now and what you're about to do.  You'll get more out of it that way.  I would add one exception:  Save up some money so that if you leave the Forces and want to go to school, you can afford to do it.  That's what I did, and I'm very glad that I did because I'm about to finish school and have no debt.


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## crowbag

Leaving the forces and finding work in civvie street is never a straightforward prospect, and experiences vary widely. I was infantry (NCM) for 4.5 years, and here are some observations, my opinion only of course. 

- A number of friends are in the "CP" world - although the "glory days" of that work seem to be over. Around 2003-2007, anyone and their dog could get hired, but as the demand has decreased (with the occupations of Iraq and Afghan winding down), the "caliber" of guys they want has increased. It is very competitive, and not as glamorous as lots of people think it is (this cannot be overstated). Also, think if you really want to carry a gun for a private company, like really think about it...  
- Your rank, unfortunately for some, counts for little in finidng civilian jobs outside para-military type roles where they understand rank structure. For example, some of my friends who left the forces at Sjt and above are finding employment difficult, while some Riflemen are doing just fine. This can be a bitter pill to swallow. Going from being a “somebody” to a “nobody” – when civilians don’t know or care what the difference is between a platoon serjeant and a private soldier – can be very hard to take. 
- Officers are a different story. They are more educated, usually much more polished, and have networks from before they were even in the forces. I may be generalizing a bit here (maybe from the Brit side of life), but I believe officers face a fraction of the hurdles NCMs do in finding civvie employment. They can just phone up the "old boys network" and they're away . Seriously though, I don't think NCM to Officer civvie transitions are comparable...

My brother and I both spent roughly 4 years in the infantry (him CF, me British Army), and have managed to sort ourselves out.

I had no idea what I wanted to do, so went back to Uni, did a degree (Poli Sci), and found a good job with a major Canadian bank, working in Canada and the UK. I supplemented my schooling with a wide array of part-time jobs (marketing type roles – grunt work, low pay). I'm trying to get into the CF as an Infantry officer now – but my career prospects with the bank are excellent (if I had any desire to stick with it). I can’t stress enough that I think Uni is an excellent “incubator” for ex-forces. It will give you time to adjust, meet some hippie chicks, and try to figure out what it is you want to do while getting educated (work part time – not at a bar – but in a proper civvie job). If you can save money (I spent every penny) while you’re in, this will be easier, part-time work and loans will suffice otherwise. 

My brother (ex-PPCLI) has gone into a specialized trade that is very hard to break into. He started out as a laborer before beginning his apprenticeship – it took a lot of perserverance just to get on as a laborer...

Long story short – do what you want to do in the forces – don’t join a trade just because it will be transferable to the outside. Leaving the forces is scary, and it will take a hell of a lot of work. But as an infantry soldier, you’ll be used to doing bitch work and not getting credit for it, you’ll be used to doing what you’re told regardless of how pointless it seems, and you’re used to working damn hard when you need to.

When my brother and I talk about finding work in civvie-street, we both credit the military experience on our CVs as the reason we got our respective jobs. No BS. Think of being the HR lackey going through a million resumes, then they see the forces. If nothing else, you're different off the bat. 

Good luck – and remember – its up to you to sell yourself and find work. Nobody is motivating you anymore except yourself - it takes some getting used to!

Canada and the UK don’t have a GI Bill – so its totally on you (I promise no rant on this right now). Improvise, adapt and overcome – those civvie HR people won’t know what hit ‘em. 

Cheers


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## daftandbarmy

crowbag said:
			
		

> When my brother and I talk about finding work in civvie-street, we both credit the military experience on our CVs as the reason we got our respective jobs. No BS. Think of being the HR lackey going through a million resumes, then they see the forces. If nothing else, you're different off the bat.



I agree. 

However I suggest making sure that your education is also up to snuff, or you won't get much of a look in compared to the other punters with many letters after their names. Employers faced with two similar resumes will always tend to go with the better educated one. The CF helps offset the cost, so there's no excuse not to, really. And if you have to, do into debt for that MBA. It will pay you dividends for a long time.

(And if you spell it 'Serjeant' you will be identified as an irredeemable Rifle Regiment punter and immediately put on a watch list with the other Milwall supporters  ;D)


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