# Shemaghs as a part of dress?



## hiv (28 Aug 2004)

I seem to recall a former CO of mine strolling about in the winter wearing one of these delightful staples of the SAS. After conferring with some of my colleagues a couple informed me that personnel are permitted these fashionable items which came as quite the shock to me. Anyway, I decided to investigate this further and after pouring through the CF dress regs I was unable to find any mention of the topic. So my question to the denizens of this fine forum is if any of you have heard of this policy or anything similar? Or was my CO just a little too eccentric?

Cheers
Your friendly neighbourhood Able Airman


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## MG34 (28 Aug 2004)

They are not authorized dress,but are tolerated in Afghanistan,where they were issued,but not authorized for wear in Canada.


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## Armymedic (28 Aug 2004)

tolerated at various tiems here and Canada...usually when there are no RSMs or CSMs around...


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## Infanteer (29 Aug 2004)

It's funny; the things really tend to stir people up in a love/hate mentality.  I have one and love it, infact, most of my Platoon wore one (up to the Platoon Commander).  However, the CSM really didn't like them, going to the point of sending down on order to put them away (yet allowing guys to wear black tuques).  The Platoon Commander was a smart subbie and didn't try to fight it out with the CSM (who was an excellent CSM, I might add).


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## mdh (29 Aug 2004)

All right, I'll fess up - what's a shemag?


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## D-n-A (29 Aug 2004)

http://www.tea-and-medals.co.uk/images/shemagh.jpg

I've been looking for one, but so far all I can find are the red/white ones, which I don't want.


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## mdh (29 Aug 2004)

Ah right! Now I want one! - if you find out where let me know where I can get one as well - if we all  band together and wear them it'll become an irresistable movement.
Cheers, mdh


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## rdschultz (29 Aug 2004)

http://secure.sovietski.com/cgi-bin/Sovietski.storefront/413287c6022904cc9c4ec0a80a6606a6/Product/View/150813&2D1

or, if you want to buy something else from them and save 5 bucks:  

http://secure.sovietski.com/cgi-bin/Sovietski.storefront/413287c6022904cc9c4ec0a80a6606a6/Product/View/S150813&2D1


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## qjdb (30 Aug 2004)

Or you can find them all over ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=588&item=2265447992&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=588&item=2264481613&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=588&item=2266120572&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19255&item=5516779610&rd=1

and they are spelt shemagh, by the by   They are the traditional headcovering of most of the arabic world, like the thing that you see on Yasser Arafat, etc.

Quentin


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## hiv (30 Aug 2004)

I got mine from a friend who made a trip to the UK. I guess that's not really useful for you but if by some chance you happen to be in the area...


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## KevinB (30 Aug 2004)

No longer issued in Afghanistan.

 They are issuing tghe US Army Brown scarf (cost measure - or some bin rat sold them all on EBay, but there were no more in theatre).

They are tolerated on patrols - but not camp dress.  The NATO PX (The Blue) at KAIA sells the brown/tan ones that were issued


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## AlphaCharlie (30 Aug 2004)

I saw a few guys wearing them at ARCON this year.....


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## Redeye (30 Aug 2004)

qjdb said:
			
		

> and they are spelt shemagh, by the by



Just to pick nits, since the word is originally Arabic and Arabic doesn't really have any written short vowels, any variation of the spelling is sufficient, since we all know what they're talking about.

A perfectly field-serviceable shemagh can be made from the combat scarf, and they work quite nicely.


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## Armymedic (10 Sep 2004)

Does anyone have the link about how to properly attire oneself with this item?

Like, I mean , to put it on...


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Sep 2004)

Try this:

http://www.actiongear.com/agcatalog/shemagh.html

or this

http://www.walkingtarget.ascuk.net/wasps/shemagh.htm


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## 1feral1 (11 Sep 2004)

Fashion statement or not, these are quite common here. I have one, and this thing really comes in handy. Many are used either in OD or desert colours.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Armymedic (11 Sep 2004)

Thanks for the links


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## HollywoodHitman (18 Sep 2004)

They're an OUTSTANDING piece of kit. Not to mention the fact that they are quite fashionable on the modern field soldier. In all seriousness though, I am never without mine in the field. when worn properly, it can make the difference between freezing on some bald a** prarie or mountain and being mildly uncomfortable. 

I've been lucky, no CSM's jumping on me for wearing one in the field yet. I've even had one or 2 ask me where they could get one for themselves.

 :threat:


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## D-n-A (18 Sep 2004)

I just picked one up a few days ago when I was in Edmonton, for about $16, not bad, cheaper than some I've seen sold on websites, plus I don't gotta pay s/h.


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## Jarnhamar (18 Sep 2004)

They look like pretty neat pieces of kit, I'd really like to buy one when i come across it. (Or maybe one of you guys send me one) 

Warstory time   :warstory:
It's annoying when people obsess over it. I remember seeing a section who's "thing" was to have them. (Which i thought was pretty cool)As it always happens, someone a little higher didn't like them and decided to shit can it so they were not to wear them for the remainder of the ex. 
Hell i think we should be allowed to use them. Someone else didn't, like it or not thats how it works. (Just like it was mentioned in Afghanistan someone came up with the rule no personal kit?)   Problem with these guys is they complained about it non stop. "f**k this army and their rules, no wog should tell me what to wear bla bla bla". The sections whole attitude went down hill and they pouted. They really shut down. Everything sucked. Being pissed was fine but they really made a big stink out of it and make sure everyone knew they were pissed. The master corporal even put in a memo saying they should be allowed to wear them. I asked one of the privates what the big deal was and he replied they NEEDED this piece of kit.
Need it how I asked.  "Besides the OBVIOUS uses you can blind fold a prisoner or tie his hands up. You can use it for first aid and stop bleeding or in a splint. You can use it to choke a sentry to death. (and my favorite) if your being extracted by helicopter using a rope ladder you can use it as an emergency sling to tie your weapon to yourself.
Kinda caught me off guard. The kid was right about it even if it's pretty out there. I had the feeling this was a line fed to him by the Mcpl. I asked what about wetting it then twisting it like a towel and wipping someone in the eye but he didnt get the joke.  Defeated I said a triangular bandage could do the same but it was lost on him.

Morale of the story is for the rest of their ex they seemed to get all the shittiest taskings and shitty jobs. They acted like children all because they didn't like their Shemag being taken away. 
SO, if your going to cry make sure it's when no one can see you


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## TOArmyChick (4 Oct 2004)

Depending on where you live, I saw them at Save More Surplus in Toronto.  They had more than red&white I think.  Um...I think one was greenish and black maybe?  This was a couple months ago yet, but they might still have it.  And they dind't cost an arm and a leg.  They were for sure under $20.


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## KevinB (4 Oct 2004)

We can still wear the shemag off camp on patrol as some are issue (and with the wind and sand here it does make sense).

Ghost - we have guys with medical chits fot non issue TV's now here due to the fact the issue ones suck and are causing injuries when loaded down...


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## Jarnhamar (4 Oct 2004)

On average how much do you figure the TVs you are using "loaded down" weights??


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## scm77 (4 Oct 2004)

These TVs seem to have a tonne of problems.


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## KevinB (5 Oct 2004)

Just TV, over 40lbs M203 and C9 gunners have more.
 Ammo, Water, Night Vision, First Aid stuff, PRR's, batteries for our batteries intensive kit 

Unfortunately 80lbs iof light weight gear is still 80lbs.

 Add in the Flack vest w/ plates
and other doddads

Guys are over or near 100lbs.


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## rw4th (5 Oct 2004)

> we have guys with medical chits fot non issue TV's now here due to the fact the issue ones suck and are causing injuries when loaded down...


Sidebar: That kind of stuff has always made me laugh, and it's always seemd like a double edged sword. If the issue kit (with all the "science" involved in its design) hurts your back, then they could just as well turn around and say you're not fit for the job and reclassify you.


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## pappy (5 Oct 2004)

The standard TV can hold that much? 40+ lbs? I'm assuming that's not just what's inside the TV, as from what I've seen the Standard Issue Tac-vest is pretty limited on carrying capacity.   4-mags, two frags, two smokes, one water bottle / ration pouch and one C9 pouch (assuming your humping extra ammo for them).   I assume all that extra stuff is going into a small pack / ruck.

Granted 40 or the higher load of 100 lbs is a shit-load, todays Kelvar / Body armor beats the hell out of the old Vietnam era issue we used in the Corps when I was in, at least these days it will actually stop something.   

And those old PRC-77's they wheren't called Pricks for nothing, 25+ lbs plus batteries if the nightmares are still current.   Comms are better these days for sure.   But it would be nice if batterys where a thing of the past.   I would why tiny fuel cells are more wide spread in military radios, seems like a no-brainer.   Lets hope you guys get them before your kids are humping the same gear your using today.

Maybe all the gear the QM issue should come with a Pack-goat....   at least if the turd was in the wind you'd have at least fresh meat.
 ;D

Always the curse of the Infantry, carrying too much and getting too little credit for it.

Buy some Good Boots.


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## HollywoodHitman (11 Oct 2004)

Rather have my issue TV than the 82 Pattern.........Me likee........The fact that they CF is issuing kit that some thought has gone into is interesting though.......The CF changing its thinking........Sort of scares me........

Sort of.....

Back from Bosnia guys.......Nice to be home.


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## rounder (16 Oct 2004)

Everyone is issued a scarf, and if you let this issue go then we'll look like a ragtag army. Where do you draw the line? I'm still pissed about having to get permission (chit) for issued black JB's. WHAT THE F!@K is up with that?


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## gun plumber (16 Oct 2004)

I've always been in favor of non-issue kit used in the field.As long as it does'nt look gaudy or compromise what we do( yellow MEC wind breaker)or your overall effectiveness( 40 million pouches on your web gear to get caught on everything).I myself am a gear slut'always looking for the "high speed,low drag" kit to reduce the uncomfort that everyone experiences once in a while.
IMO most of the issued stuff we get is crap.For all the T&E that goes into it you'd think that it would be higher quality than kitshop gear,but this is not the case.
Any fool can be uncomfortable,but it takes a prefessional to be comfortable.
I agree with your statement about "rag tag" look,but only if it isnt kept in check.No one needs a claymore to cut paracord or a 1300L bergan(sp) to carry 5 days worth of kit.The small things like gloves,scarfs,socks and such should be left to the soldiers descretion as long as it does'nt interfer with the mission.
I feel for ya about the boots though.When I arrived in Borden for my 3's I was diagnosed with an orthodic problem.Even though the MO perscribed Vibram soles for my boots,the system would'nt pay for them because I was a "student".I was told to wear the WWB till I got posted to my new unit, then I would get proper footwear.After wearing the WWB in plus 40C weather not only did my orthodic condition deteriate,but also I had feet that looked like raw meat.
It was'nt until I got to where I'm at now that this issue was adressed and now I am the proud owner of 2 pr or Danner acadias.
Med chits for stuff that is considered "stupid" by some can mean the difference between injury or continued health for others.
You really don't Know someone until you've marched a mile in thier boots
My 2 cents
Arte et Marte


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## rounder (16 Oct 2004)

> When I arrived in Borden for my 3's I was diagnosed with an orthodic problem.Even though the MO perscribed Vibram soles for my boots,the system would'nt pay for them because I was a "student".I was told to wear the WWB till I got posted to my new unit, then I would get proper footwear.After wearing the WWB in plus 40C weather not only did my orthodic condition deteriate,but also I had feet that looked like raw meat.




 Unbelievable!!! And you're Reg Army too. That's embarrassing man. I feel for you.


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## gun plumber (16 Oct 2004)

Alot of that "staff or student" bullshyte happens in Borden.Anywhere that you go to get something done that question was asked.
The MIR was about the most"giving"of all the places but as you read in my post it was'nt much.....
The absolute worse was supply.Just to put it in perspective....
I component transfersd to the regs with all of my gortex kit.I had torn a small hole in my jacket due to training in the field and after ex,proceeded to stores to exchange it.I was asked right away "staff or student"from the civy tech behind the counter.I naturally told him "student" and showed him my jacket.With that out of the way,he told me that because I was a student I was not entitled to have gortex kit and that I would have to turn it all in.I protested telling him that I was an ex reserveist and that I kept all my kit upon transfer.He then proceded to tell me that if I needed a new coat,he would issue me with the old jacket and take my goretex and take it off my docs.needles to say,I wore a ripped gortex jacket until one of my staff exchanged it for me.
To add salt to the already open wound,an airforce PAT walked in for kit and was told that his gortex jacket was'nt to be worn in the field or while he did work!
I just shook my head and walked out....
Not knockin' supply guys,but the kit on the shelves is'nt yours and yours alone......


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## bossi (16 Oct 2004)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Just to pick nits, since the word is originally Arabic and Arabic doesn't really have any written short vowels, any variation of the spelling is sufficient, since we all know what they're talking about.
> 
> A perfectly field-serviceable shemagh can be made from the combat scarf, and they work quite nicely.



I'm saying this politely - NOT trying to be a nit-picker or whatever ...

From a phonetic perspetive, perhaps "-agh" gives a better indication of pronounciation
(i.e. not like bag, hag or mag, but more like "maw" or County Armagh, Ireland?)

In the context of wearing/using the shemagh in Afghanistan, "when in Rome, do like the Romans".
The more loosely-woven fabric of the CF issue cbt scarf would have acted like a dust trap, whereas the more finely woven cloth of our shemaghs offered better protection the wearer from the incredibly fine, powdery dust and sand.

Additionally, the issue CF cbt scarves are better suited to cold weather, vice temperatures in excess of 30 degrees celsius.

The issued shemaghs were a boost to morale, rather than "making do".

So, that's my $0.02.


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## rounder (16 Oct 2004)

Good point... I guess it is environmental clothing... it should have been issued then. Like the Camelbak.


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## bossi (16 Oct 2004)

Clarification:  On Roto 0 the shemaghs were issue.


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## Recce41 (16 Oct 2004)

It's your damn scarf. I have a few from tours, but just wear my scarf cutdown. To me it's the look cool thing. I have some other Brit kit. Having a cousin with the Brits helps, but who cares. Just cut your scarf. As for foot wear, here the low down. It Ontario West you can be issued Danners, In Quebec HTs, In the Shit Hole of Canada you can only be issued crap ( Matterhorns made by Corcorans). I wear Arcadias and are  the best pr of boots I own. 
 Well for chits. This prevent soldiers from just wearing anything they want to.


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## Niss (11 Dec 2004)

Heres a question about the combat waffle scarves. Why go through the process of making them green to help in concelment, when there is a white tag that takes up 1/5th of the friggin thing? ???


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## Burrows (12 Dec 2004)

Niss said:
			
		

> Heres a question about the combat waffle scarves. Why go through the process of making them green to help in concelment, when there is a white tag that takes up 1/5th of the friggin thing? ???



Does it turn over?


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## Niss (12 Dec 2004)

Ya but isnt there the chance that the white side might be exposed?


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## aesop081 (12 Dec 2004)

Here's a novel idea.....


Why dont you just take the tag off , if you are so worried about it ?


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## Niss (12 Dec 2004)

Sorry if i sounded like it was a personel issue, but being a non combatant (read civi) i am not to concerned for myself. To me it just seams kind of pointless to make something green yet put a big white tag on it. On top of that, that tag i believe is the big one that says do not remove.


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## aesop081 (12 Dec 2004)

Yes it is BIG and yes it is White.  You being a civilian has nothing to do with being able to use common dog !  As far as the do not remove goes...cant remember having see that on it...but how many " do not remove under penalty of law" tags have you removed off pillows and the like ?  Modifying kit is also prohibited , yet we all do it !!

Come up with something better will ya !

But we are getting off topic........


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## gun plumber (13 Dec 2004)

If your that concerned with it,buy a shemagh!


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## Steel Badger (15 Dec 2004)

Based on recent experience...Area and Brigade Sergeants-Major aren't too fond of shemags.....
Or of troops who unblouse their trousers in the field.

And less fond of WO's and SR NCO's responsible for those pers.  :'(


Personally I would be more concerned about how a soldier performs his/ her tasks......but mine is not to reason why.


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## mudgunner49 (16 Dec 2004)

I had the Brigade SgtMaj jump all over me last year (2003) at Concentration in Pet because I showed up in the Brigade HQ area for the Comd O Gp with trousers unbloused and wearing a shemagh.   He was so pissed off about those two items that he failed to notice that I was wearing a CadPat SO Tech RCH chest rig... or maybe he didn't know what it was and was too embarrassed to ask!!   I have been wearing my trousers outside my boots in the field for about 15 years now, but I guess that the Bde HQ area is* not * the field... :dontpanic:

Not a thing said to Inf Coy OC's with drop-leg holsters in black or with US Woodland assault packs... hmmm, looks like a widespread Inf vs Arty conspiracy... ;D

Blake


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## foerestedwarrior (16 Dec 2004)

I was on an ex about 2 years ago, that we had to try and clean our stuff best as possible, and blouse our boots, cus City TV was showing up, I mean it had been raining for both days already, then that....... ???


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## Danjanou (16 Dec 2004)

Steel Badger if I read between the lines correctly there, sounds like somebody tried to chew you a new one for standing up for your troops. 

If so good for you. Seems to me I spent waay too much time getting reamed for allowing my troops to â Å“bend the rules a bitâ ? re issued kit in the boonies and often led by example myself in what I was wearing/using (Yes I admit it I was a kit slut in my day). Not the "wandering gypsy anything goes, 50 rambo knives strapped everywhere, bring your own assault rifle look" mind, but practical proven non issue items.

My OC and I (I was the CSM) even got reemeed out by the Deputy Comd of the SSF in front of the boys for what they were/were not wearing in Pet on Ex in the early 1990's. That was amusing to say the least, at least he didn't decide to check if we were all wearing issue grey socks. :

Shemagh is a great piece of kit. Picked one up wandering around Morocco a few yeasr back and always take it with me when travelling ( wife hates it, I think she was a REMF RSM in a past life   )


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## Steel Badger (17 Dec 2004)

Well chewed 

Am still convinced that the cleanliness and ability to function of a soldier and his kit is the thing to demand.
Much as I enforce perfection on the Pde Square... in the field I am less concerned about shemags and the like....including the radical decision not to bitch if my troops wear their own danners,,,,,,


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## my72jeep (21 Dec 2004)

HollywoodHitman said:
			
		

> Rather have my issue TV than the 82 Pattern.........Me likee........The fact that they CF is issuing kit that some thought has gone into is interesting though.......The CF changing its thinking........Sort of scares me........
> 
> Sort of.....
> 
> :



You think the 82 pattern was bad I started with the 65 pattern all strap no padding and Velcro was used to hold it together and every thing on it.


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## Steel Badger (21 Dec 2004)

LOL

I remember that every single time we dismounted from the Grizzly, we'd leave our mess tins and water bottles on the ground behind the AVGP....


Ahhh the lovely 64 pattern....


Anyone else here remember the joys of the rainsuit....worn INSIDE the two halves of the mess tin carrier...

Took so *%%&^%&% long to get the &%%%^ stuff back into the mess tins that we never wore 'em...

Like my old sect comd used to say"  If yer not soaked w/in 5 min, you dont need em. 
                                                   And if your arfe soakedin the first 5 min, you dont need em...


Let us not forget, that as a rain barrier the 64 pattern rainsuit had more holes in it than Sheila Cops' election platform....

 >


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## Bomber (21 Dec 2004)

MudGunner49, that bge SM came out with a dress "policy".  I thought only officers wrote and dictated policy, it is my belief that Snr NCO's actually "enforce" policy (which comes from officers, and is thus not their own).  I was a bit thrown by the "no desert boots due to no ankle support, but yes to jungle boots because of adequate ankle support" I should just put my Mk 3's on and be a good little gunner.


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## Danjanou (21 Dec 2004)

Steel Badger said:
			
		

> LOL
> 
> I remember that every single time we dismounted from the Grizzly, we'd leave our mess tins and water bottles on the ground behind the AVGP....
> 
> ...



I can trump ya there Badger Boy. I can remember how excited we were to get the â Å“newâ ? 64 pattern and finally stop wearing our â Å“51" pattern with it's bren pouchs, cross straps, buckles and eyelets. 

A couple of months later and I was longing for the old stuff that really worked, had a place to stow my mags, grenades etc, and didn't have to have all the velcro reinforced with gun tape or be forced to fill in lost kit reports (mess tin carrier, mess tins, KFS, rain gear top and bottom, water bottle, water bottle carrier, and canteen cup) after each section attack.

Ok now lets wait for some real old fart to come on and tell us how fun it was to wear pipe clayed cross belts and wooden water bottle and cartridge box. ;D

As for officers and NCOs coming up with and/or enforcing   a dress policy for the troopies and then not adhering to it themselves. While lets say i have a few well chosen and short ( about 4 letter) words for them. In MY Coy if I wore it and/or the OC wore it then that meant you could to.


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