# ATOC



## Jackson10 (29 Mar 2021)

My CoC have suggested they will nominate me for ATOC. However, we have not seen anything re: course offerings. Did we miss it for this year? I would appreciate any information whether ATOC has already happened, and if not, when it is happening. Thank you.


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## winds_13 (30 Mar 2021)

The Army National Calendar has the next serial of ATOC DL starting on 19 Apr. You can access the calendar on DWAN:



			https://acims.mil.ca/trg/AITIS/SiteAssets/ANC_Search.aspx


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## Jackson10 (1 Apr 2021)

Excellent. Thank you so much!


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## jeffb (4 Apr 2021)

ATOC runs all the time. If you are Reg Force, it is Career Manager loaded based off of CoC recommendations/ priority.


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## Jackson10 (17 Dec 2021)

I just my load message for ATOC starting January. I would like to do some reading over Christmas. Is there any specific doctrine or pubs that could be helpful to read beforehand? Thank you.


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## TangoTwoBravo (17 Dec 2021)

Jackson10 said:


> I just my load message for ATOC starting January. I would like to do some reading over Christmas. Is there any specific doctrine or pubs that could be helpful to read beforehand? Thank you.


I recommend the following:

   a.  Skim B-GL-300-001/FP-001 Land Operations Chapters 1 and 2 (not mandatory since the following pub will cover those)

   b.  Read B-GL-321-005/FP-001 Battle Group in Operations Chapters 1, 2, 6 and 7

   c.  Read B-GL-321-006/FP-001 Combat Team in Operations but _study_ Chapters 1 and 2

Skimming the Tank Troop in Battle pub can also be useful if you are not a tanker, along with Infantry Section and Platoon in Operations if you are not Infantry. 

What is your Branch? You should review your own Branch's doctrine/TTPs because the DS will call on you to cover points regarding your Branch. 

Good luck!


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## Jackson10 (17 Dec 2021)

TangoTwoBravo said:


> I recommend the following:
> 
> a.  Skim B-GL-300-001/FP-001 Land Operations Chapters 1 and 2 (not mandatory since the following pub will cover those)
> 
> ...


That is excellent! Thank you so much. I am tracking these down now.


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## Jackson10 (17 Dec 2021)

Jackson10 said:


> That is excellent! Thank you so much. I am tracking these down now.


I am Log O and all my buds tell me we are a bit behind. Apparently, the artillery pers are the best at it?


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## Jackson10 (17 Dec 2021)

TangoTwoBravo said:


> I recommend the following:
> 
> a.  Skim B-GL-300-001/FP-001 Land Operations Chapters 1 and 2 (not mandatory since the following pub will cover those)
> 
> ...


Got them all located and saved! Will start reading. I really appreciate the feedback.


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## Edward Campbell (17 Dec 2021)

Jackson10 said:


> Got them all located and saved! Will start reading. I really appreciate the feedback.


It's just one of the (several) good things about Army.ca.


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## TangoTwoBravo (17 Dec 2021)

Jackson10 said:


> I am Log O and all my buds tell me we are a bit behind. Apparently, the artillery pers are the best at it?


Don't worry about it. If some of your fellow students in the syndicate have a few exercises at the Combat Team level as Troop Leaders or Platoon Commanders then pick their brains. Engineer officers tend to be quite good at the Estimate process.

A Combat Team attack can look quite daunting to put together, but the fundamentals are not that complicated. Once you've made contact with the enemy, you have three basic choices: frontal, left flank or right flank. Part of your force shoots up the enemy and keeps their heads down while the rest of your force takes a covered approach, hopefully at 90 degrees to the firebase, to roll up and destroy the enemy platoon. The FOO will be dropping HE and smoke on the enemy from supporting artillery. Recce and maybe anti-armour will be screening the flank of your assault force.

Whatever you do, you should have at least one Tank Troop in the Fire Base, usually the one that made contact. Expect an obstacle that you will need to breach. _(It is considered very rude to not breach an obstacle that someone has put a lot of effort into emplacing_). At least one tank troop (and maybe two) in the Assault Force with the Engineers will handle the breach with plows (and maybe rollers). The tanks in the Assault Force then blast through/past the enemy positions, destroying any enemy vehicles that were hidden from the Fire Base. The infantry company roll through the lanes in the obstacle and, accompanied by another Tank Troop in intimate support, destroy the enemy. The infantry dismount as appropriate and stab/grenade the enemy. You consolidate to fend off the inevitable counter-attack, handle casualties/prisoners and then proceed with the task at hand. 

You will use the Combat Estimate to make your plan. They will teach it to you, but review it in the Combat Team Operations book. 

Above all, don't panic.


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## dapaterson (17 Dec 2021)

TangoTwoBravo said:


> Above all, don't panic.



Make sure you know where your towel is, and you'll be a hoopy frood in no time.

#42.


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## SeaKingTacco (17 Dec 2021)

I always kind of preferred to find a way around the obstacle…just to drink Engineer’s tears…


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## Jackson10 (18 Dec 2021)

TangoTwoBravo said:


> Don't worry about it. If some of your fellow students in the syndicate have a few exercises at the Combat Team level as Troop Leaders or Platoon Commanders then pick their brains. Engineer officers tend to be quite good at the Estimate process.
> 
> A Combat Team attack can look quite daunting to put together, but the fundamentals are not that complicated. Once you've made contact with the enemy, you have three basic choices: frontal, left flank or right flank. Part of your force shoots up the enemy and keeps their heads down while the rest of your force takes a covered approach, hopefully at 90 degrees to the firebase, to roll up and destroy the enemy platoon. The FOO will be dropping HE and smoke on the enemy from supporting artillery. Recce and maybe anti-armour will be screening the flank of your assault force.
> 
> ...


This is wicked feedback. Thanks! I am adding this to my package.


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## Jackson10 (18 Dec 2021)

Edward Campbell said:


> It's just one of the (several) good things about Army.ca.


For sure. Got a lot more from here, then my "friends" who took the course.


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## daftandbarmy (20 Dec 2021)

TangoTwoBravo said:


> Don't worry about it. If some of your fellow students in the syndicate have a few exercises at the Combat Team level as Troop Leaders or Platoon Commanders then pick their brains. Engineer officers tend to be quite good at the Estimate process.
> 
> A Combat Team attack can look quite daunting to put together, but the fundamentals are not that complicated. Once you've made contact with the enemy, you have three basic choices: frontal, left flank or right flank. Part of your force shoots up the enemy and keeps their heads down while the rest of your force takes a covered approach, hopefully at 90 degrees to the firebase, to roll up and destroy the enemy platoon. The FOO will be dropping HE and smoke on the enemy from supporting artillery. Recce and maybe anti-armour will be screening the flank of your assault force.
> 
> ...



And ask the drivers for the best route from the FUP to the objective


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## Jackson10 (22 Jan 2022)

Passed the DL test. Seriously, the doctrine you referenced (and i read beforehand) made the difference for me in that one.

So,  heartfelt and sincere thank you.


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## daftandbarmy (22 Jan 2022)

Jackson10 said:


> Passed the DL test. Seriously, the doctrine you referenced (and i read beforehand) made the difference for me in that one.
> 
> So,  heartfelt and sincere thank you.


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## TangoTwoBravo (23 Jan 2022)

Jackson10 said:


> Passed the DL test. Seriously, the doctrine you referenced (and i read beforehand) made the difference for me in that one.
> 
> So,  heartfelt and sincere thank you.


Congrats on the results that resulted from your hard work and study! 

I think that most enjoy ATOC (and AOC) even if being on course can be stressful at times. Your course mates will all bring something to the table, and that includes you. Having a sound understanding of the doctrine is very useful. It is fine to depart from doctrine, but it is very good to _know_ when you are doing so.


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## daftandbarmy (23 Jan 2022)

TangoTwoBravo said:


> Congrats on the results that resulted from your hard work and study!
> 
> I think that most enjoy ATOC (and AOC) even if being on course can be stressful at times. Your course mates will all bring something to the table, and that includes you. Having a sound understanding of the doctrine is very useful.* It is fine to depart from doctrine, but it is very good to know when you are doing so.*



That's a keeper


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## Happy Guy (27 Jan 2022)

I did ATOC years ago and I enjoyed immensely.  As a LOG O, I got to academically experience what the my Cbt Arms brethren did as well from Sigs, Cbt Engrs (at my ATOC time they were Cbt Sp) and the Medical.  I developed lasting friendships while on crse.  As a LOG O, I knew that I would never be in the running for top candidate and my career wouldn't come to a halt or grind down if I didn't get an "A" or "B" on crse, thus my stress level while high was not as high as the Cbt Arms guys who needed to rank high for their careers.  I concentrated on just learning what they did.  It is on AOC that you can apply your Logistical expertise.  For example if the Bde was on the offensive, the Svc Bn would normally be tasked with arty dumping programs 24 hrs before the ops.  While on defensive the Svc Bn would be tasked with defensive stores dumping programs.

Jackson10, don't be too surprised if the instructors tends to concentrate more on the Cbt Arms.  ATOC and AOC focuses more on their development.  In my experience the Cbt Sp/Svc Sp Arms are used more as a training aid for the Cbt Arms.  At the sub-unit level, we are merely a small consideration and this is fine as the focus should be on them.  Most Army Offrs do not learn about Cbt Sp/Svc Sp ops until they become a CO or OC Admin / Cbt Sp of a unit within a CMBG.

Good luck and enjoy the TEWTS.


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## Jackson10 (11 Feb 2022)

Happy Guy said:


> I did ATOC years ago and I enjoyed immensely.  As a LOG O, I got to academically experience what the my Cbt Arms brethren did as well from Sigs, Cbt Engrs (at my ATOC time they were Cbt Sp) and the Medical.  I developed lasting friendships while on crse.  As a LOG O, I knew that I would never be in the running for top candidate and my career wouldn't come to a halt or grind down if I didn't get an "A" or "B" on crse, thus my stress level while high was not as high as the Cbt Arms guys who needed to rank high for their careers.  I concentrated on just learning what they did.  It is on AOC that you can apply your Logistical expertise.  For example if the Bde was on the offensive, the Svc Bn would normally be tasked with arty dumping programs 24 hrs before the ops.  While on defensive the Svc Bn would be tasked with defensive stores dumping programs.
> 
> Jackson10, don't be too surprised if the instructors tends to concentrate more on the Cbt Arms.  ATOC and AOC focuses more on their development.  In my experience the Cbt Sp/Svc Sp Arms are used more as a training aid for the Cbt Arms.  At the sub-unit level, we are merely a small consideration and this is fine as the focus should be on them.  Most Army Offrs do not learn about Cbt Sp/Svc Sp ops until they become a CO or OC Admin / Cbt Sp of a unit within a CMBG.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy the TEWTS.


Your assessment is spot on!  It was Cbt Arms focused but I learned an incredible amount. I really enjoyed the material and had a great syndicate. A real solid course - challenging but reasonable.


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