# 33 CBG ICE issue in the works



## brihard (19 Jan 2006)

An email's come down my chain of command over the past couple of days. Apparently LFCA is polling all the uniq RQMSs to get sizes, stock numbers, and amounts for ICE kit issue within our brigade. They're looking for the info by January 25th, so safe money is that within a couple months 33CBG reserves will be wearing the CADPAT Goretex.

Has ICE been completely issued for the RegF? I was under the impression some units had not yet seen it.


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## Matt_Fisher (19 Jan 2006)

Are you referring to the Air Force ICE Jacket which is a waterproof-breathable shell garment?  From my understanding, that hasn't even been fielded to Reg. F Army units yet.

Or, are you referring to the Cadpat version of the current IECS jacket (the OD 'Gore-Tex' Jacket)?  These are currently in use in the Reg Force Army component, and are now being delivered to the Res.

Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.  Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).


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## BKells (19 Jan 2006)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Are you referring to the Air Force ICE Jacket which is a waterproof-breathable shell garment?  From my understanding, that hasn't even been fielded to Reg. F Army units yet.
> 
> Or, are you referring to the Cadpat version of the current IECS jacket (the OD 'Gore-Tex' Jacket)?  These are currently in use in the Reg Force Army component, and are now being delivered to the Res.
> 
> Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.  Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).



Interesting factoid, Mr. Fisher. That's one of those 'zings' I can keep holstered to quiet would-be adversaries.



			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> An email's come down my chain of command over the past couple of days. Apparently LFCA is polling all the uniq RQMSs to get sizes, stock numbers, and amounts for ICE kit issue within our brigade. They're looking for the info by January 25th, so safe money is that within a couple months 33CBG reserves will be wearing the CADPAT Goretex.
> 
> Has ICE been completely issued for the RegF? I was under the impression some units had not yet seen it.



A couple of months is not 'safe money'. Late next year is more realistic.


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## brihard (19 Jan 2006)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Are you referring to the Air Force ICE Jacket which is a waterproof-breathable shell garment?  From my understanding, that hasn't even been fielded to Reg. F Army units yet.
> 
> Or, are you referring to the Cadpat version of the current IECS jacket (the OD 'Gore-Tex' Jacket)?  These are currently in use in the Reg Force Army component, and are now being delivered to the Res.
> 
> Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.  Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).



I could well stand corected- I'm not sure. The email topic, however, is 'issue of ice at 33CBG', and that email title has been passed down from G4 supply, I think at brigade level.  Could I fire a couple stock numbers at you and get confirmation? Combat coat size 6432 has a stock number of 21-921-6843 in the list attached to the email. The stock number for ICE combat coat (generic) is 21-921-6837 on the CTS website, adn the list of stock number sin the emial run from '6843 to '6869 in the email for the combat coat iteam. I'm sure entirely how the number conventions work, so if someone else wants to check I'd appreciate it. The (not)Gore-Tex wind pants in ICE start at number 21-921-7022, and the email lists from '7025 to '7045, so I think it could well be that we're getting the real stuff. It wouldn't make sense to issue CADPAT IECS if ICE is to eventually be the standard anyway.

Kells, you could well be right. Maybe I'm too optimistic. I'd have to think though that they wouldn't ask for measurements unless they were just about ready to send out the stocks- if they didn't send them til next year the numbers and sizes would all be FUBAR due to troops moving in or out.


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## dutchie (19 Jan 2006)

Why can't they make a simple under-the-shirt shell out of REAL Gore-tex? Why always do it on the cheap with 15 different garments (2 jackets, a parka, tobogan pants that no-one uses, wind pants, etc.)?

Just one Gore-tex liner. That's it.


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## Blakey (19 Jan 2006)

> Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.


Actually Matt, both the IECS and the new ICE have Goretex membranes.

Edit:


> Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).


Hmmm, well then, I stand corrected.


> A barrier layer between the outer shell and lining is made from a waterproof moisture vapour permeable membrane laminated between two layers of nylon tricot.


http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2423_e.asp


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## Blakey (19 Jan 2006)

Caesar said:
			
		

> Why can't they make a simple under-the-shirt shell out of REAL Gore-tex? Why always do it on the cheap with 15 different garments (2 jackets, a parka, tobogan pants that no-one uses, wind pants, etc.)?
> 
> Just one Gore-tex liner. That's it.


Exactly, whats wrong with just putting the digital CADPAT pattern on the Stealth suit.... :


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## Zoomie (19 Jan 2006)

Gore-tex is a brand name, much like Kevlar, Teflon and Nomex.  We rarely use Dupont products, as the non-trademarked fibre is just as efficient.  Our Helmets are made with Aramid Fibre, not Kevlar.

ICE has been fully integrated into the Airforce (every piece of IECS army is in CADPAT for the Blue boys) - it is only fair for the PRes to start to receive them.


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## dutchie (19 Jan 2006)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Gore-tex is a brand name, much like Kevlar, Teflon and Nomex.  We rarely use Dupont products, as the non-trademarked fibre is just as efficient.



If this is the same stuff that the IECS OD jacket is made of, it is NOT as effective as Gore-tex. I have Gore-tex socks that, for demonstration purposes, I filled with water and left them overnight. Not one drop of water penetrated the fabric. 25 minutes in a BC rainstorm in my 'gore-tex' jacket and I'm wet.

I say again, one gore-tex stealth suit, that all that's needed! You can slap that under any coat, shirt, etc. If you really want to get fancy, make a stealth suit and also a shell to go over all the issued jackets. Done.


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## Matt_Fisher (19 Jan 2006)

Ok, here's what I got from the CTS site about the Army's version of the ICE jacket:
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2423_e.asp

Design Section on Serviceability
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/242323_e.asp
_The shell material is made from a durable nylon cotton blend that is treated to be oil and water repellent. While this material is not completely waterproof, the waterproof MVP interlining will keep moisture away from the body and any accumulation of water will drain through the drainage holes along the bottom of the jacket._

This description sounds like the jacket is still using the same principle of a nyco unlaminated outer fabric with a separate waterproof-breathable liner that the current IECS OD jacket utilizes.

So...it seems that you guys will be getting a cadpat version of the OD jacket?


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## dutchie (19 Jan 2006)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> So...it seems that you guys will be getting a cadpat version of the OD jacket?



Yay. I can hardly wait to get wet, only this time wearing a matching jacket.

Are there civvie companies making faux cadpat stealth suits? I really hate buying kit, but I hate being wet more.

edit: I guess you wouldn't really need the stealth suit to be cadpat, being under the shirt and all.

Any recomendations on good quality inexpensive stealth suits?


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## Blakey (19 Jan 2006)

Caesar said:
			
		

> Any recomendations on good quality inexpensive stealth suits?


The are in fact ®Goretex
stealth jacket  $115.00 
stealth pants  $105.00  
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/2ppcli/kitshop_e.htm


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## dutchie (19 Jan 2006)

Blakey said:
			
		

> The are in fact ®Goretex
> stealth jacket  $115.00
> stealth pants  $105.00
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/2ppcli/kitshop_e.htm



Thanks.


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## armyvern (21 Jan 2006)

Just this past Monday, I recd a call from CTS to obtain the sizes for all Reg Force personnel and other personnel filling permanent staff positions here in Gagetown. I am awaiting responses from 2 more Units. Once I have those, I draft my message demands and submit to Clothe the Soldier who will then be distributing ICE to us here in Gagetown, as we are not yet kitted.

I am also consolidating a listing of sizes for all the ResF pers in NB/PEI so that they can be used by CTS to forecast the outstanding ICE requirements for LFAA. As per my instruction from CTS, the remaining RegF and personnel filling permanent posns will be outfitted into ICE prior to the issue to outstanding ResF personnel (unless they are deploying on an international Op). 

As it is right now, with 2 Units still outstanding, my requirements are upwards of 2800 Reg Force pers to kit in this location first.

The ICE (Integrated Clothing Ensemble) is the very same gortex item as the IECS (Improved Enviornmental Clothing System). The difference is that the ICE has integrated the cadpat design fabric on the outter shell. The insides....the very same, as Matt pointed out.


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Jan 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Just this past Monday, I recd a call from CTS to obtain the sizes for all Reg Force personnel and other personnel filling permanent staff positions here in Gagetown. I am awaiting responses from 2 more Units. Once I have those, I draft my message demands and submit to Clothe the Soldier who will then be distributing ICE to us here in Gagetown, as we are not yet kitted.
> 
> I am also consolidating a listing of sizes for all the ResF pers in NB/PEI so that they can be used by CTS to forecast the outstanding ICE requirements for LFAA. As per my instruction from CTS, the remaining RegF and personnel filling permanent posns will be outfitted into ICE prior to the issue to outstanding ResF personnel (unless they are deploying on an international Op).



What about the NL/NS units?, we also come under LFAA.


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## armyvern (22 Jan 2006)

Nfld_Sapper said:
			
		

> What about the NL/NS units?, we also come under LFAA.


Please re-read my post: 





> to obtain the sizes for all Reg Force personnel and other personnel filling permanent staff positions here in Gagetown.


and


> ResF pers in NB/PEI so that they can be used by CTS to *forecast* the outstanding ICE requirements for LFAA.



Nfld is not supported by Gagetown. Rather you are supported by Clothing Stores in St. John's via CFB Halifax. No need to worry, you will be handing in your sizes soon enough. Cape Breton ResF units are supported by Clothing Det Sydney (via CFB Halifax) and mainland NS is supported by Clothing Det Aldershot, Truro etc (via CFB Halifax).

NB & PEI Res F Units are directly supported by 3 ASG Gagetown Clothing Dets in Bathurst, Moncton, Charlottetown, Fredericton, St. John, Edmonston and Woodstock. 

Although, the wait between handing your sizes in and actually getting it issued could be awhile.  There's an awful lot of Reg F pers here at Gagetown who will be getting it first.


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## Arctic Acorn (22 Jan 2006)

Which is perfectly fine. If its really the same kit, only with CADPAT...

The handwarmer pockets seem nice, though...too bad you most likely wouldn't be able to use them in Garrison.


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## geo (22 Jan 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> The ICE (Integrated Clothing Ensemble) is the very same gortex item as the IECS (Improved Enviornmental Clothing System). The difference is that the ICE has integrated the cadpat design fabric on the outter shell. The insides....the very same, as Matt pointed out.


Don't know about you but was on a rainy range in November. Some had the new CADPAT jackets while others had the OD ones. Didn't take long for the ODs to get soaked thru while I stayed dry through the whole day.... I'm no tech but I know what wet is.... there's gotta be a difference in the specs


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Jan 2006)

Armyvern that would explain why we can't get any items throught the supply system here. 

Geo I think the reason some stayed dry was the ICE kit has the Gortex waterproof-breathable laminate is actually near the top of the jacket rather than next to the wearer in the IECS jacket. (or so I have been told by my contacts at LFTEU)


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## armyvern (22 Jan 2006)

0tto Destruct said:
			
		

> Which is perfectly fine. If its really the same kit, only with CADPAT...



Hmmm. The ICE is indeed the very same thing as the IECS...only it has the cadpat outter shell.


			
				0tto Destruct said:
			
		

> The handwarmer pockets seem nice, though...too bad you most likely wouldn't be able to use them in Garrison.



And you may be confusing the Army Clothe the Soldier ICE with the Air Force Cadpat CEMS Gortex Jacket (Clothing & Equipment Millineum Standard).

The CEMS Gortex jacket is the Air Force cadpat jacket and IT is the one with the handwarmer pockets. 

So we have 3 different animals:
1) Gortex IECS (Army issue olive drab gortex coat); 
2) Gortex ICE (Army issue cadpat gortex coat); and
3) Gortex CEMS (Air Force issue cadpat jacket with warm fuzzy pockets).


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## deh (22 Jan 2006)

> Hmmm. The ICE is indeed the very same thing as the IECS...only it has the cadpat outter shell.
> And you may be confusing the Army Clothe the Soldier ICE with the Air Force Cadpat CEMS Gortex Jacket (Clothing & Equipment Millineum Standard).
> 
> The CEMS Gortex jacket is the Air Force cadpat jacket and IT is the one with the handwarmer pockets.
> ...



While I shudder to disagree with a supply tech about equipment I'm not 100% sure that this is true.  All my room mates CADPAT ICE gear has the handwarmer pockets.  Currently I have the parka (Shell, Parka Combat ICE NSN 8415-21-920-9973) sitting on my lap and it most definitely does have those fleece lined pockets.  You can see both the nomenclature and the zipper from the pocket in the photo attached.  Could this have changed?  regards,

daniel


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## armyvern (22 Jan 2006)

Well...it would only make sense to 'merge' the two patterns such as they did with the cadpats. It can only save money in the long run to bring in one design vice two.


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## geo (22 Jan 2006)

still not convinced about the OD and CADPAT jackets are identical
there is certainly a difference between the hoods.

Will do a comparaison test tomorrow and comment.


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## deh (22 Jan 2006)

There is a list of modifications and differences in the designs for each garment between ICE and IECS pegged at
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/242_e.asp
As well they talk of the convergence of Army and Air Force into one universal design.Aside from the covered buttons, handwarmers and using velcro instead of buttons on the hood the parka is nearly identical.  Same materials listed on the tags as well.  I can post photo's if you there is some kind of demand.  Hope this helps!  Regards,

daniel


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## armyvern (22 Jan 2006)

I think there's already more than enough links to CTS and their pics on the forum already. Tonnes of threads happening regarding ICE, Gortex, cadpat...you name it...it's already here.


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## armyvern (22 Jan 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> still not convinced about the OD and CADPAT jackets are identical
> there is certainly a difference between the hoods.
> 
> Will do a comparaison test tomorrow and comment.



Design is different Geo. But the make-up of the jacket itself is the same. Save for the outter layer material shell. The ICE is different from the IECS.


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## Matt_Fisher (23 Jan 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Don't know about you but was on a rainy range in November. Some had the new CADPAT jackets while others had the OD ones. Didn't take long for the ODs to get soaked thru while I stayed dry through the whole day.... I'm no tech but I know what wet is.... there's gotta be a difference in the specs





			
				Nfld_Sapper said:
			
		

> Geo I think the reason some stayed dry was the ICE kit has the Gortex waterproof-breathable laminate is actually near the top of the jacket rather than next to the wearer in the IECS jacket. (or so I have been told by my contacts at LFTEU)



The probably reason why your cadpat ICE jacket stayed 'dry' and the OD IECS jackets got 'wet' is due to the DWR (Durable Water Repellent) Treatment given to the new nyco (nylon-cotton) twill shell of the ICE jacket.  
All material is given this DWR treatment at the fabric mill and it causes water to 'bead' on the surface rather than be absorbed into the material.
Over time through exposure to the elements and repeated launderings, the DWR treatment wears off and water stops beading on the surface and is is absorbed into the material immediately.
A characteristic of the nyco twill shell is that since there is cotton in the material, it is a great absorber of water.  As the DWR wears off, this becomes much more apparent.

In order for a WB (Waterproof-Breathable) garment to work is largely dependent on the ability of the water vapor that is passed through the WB membrane to pass through the shell fabric.  A shell fabric that is saturated in liquid water cannot pass water vapor (coming from the inside of the jacket) as effectively as a shell fabric that is not saturated.  Wen your surface fabric is saturated, any water vapor passing through the WB membrane condenses when it comes in contact with the saturated shell fabric and the WB membrane thus effectively stops passing moisture from the inside of the jacket through to the outer shell and the wearer starts to feel wet from a buildup of internal moisture, which eventually begins to turn from moisture vapor into liquid, and over time, gives the impression that your jacket is soaking wet.

The best thing you can do is that if you're wearing either the ICE or IECS jackets is to treat them regularly with a water-repellent spray/wash ie. Nikwax, Scotchguard, Granger's, etc.  This will keep the surface fabric beading water, and allowing the WB membrane to pass moisture vapor from inside the jacket.

What a far more efficient system is when the WB membrane is laminated directly to the face fabric.  This allows for a faster rate of transmission of internal moisture outwards, and when an inherently water-repellent fabric (read a non-cotton/cotton blend) is used that process isn't retarded by wetting-out/saturation of the surface fabric.  Additionally, a 'shell' type jacket like this is considerably lighter as you are going from 3 layers of material to 1 as the surface fabric, WB membrane and tricot lining are sandwiched into a single layer.

A good example of such this efficient concept is the ICE Tactical Hardshell jacket (no relation to the CF issued AirForce or Army ICE jacket):
http://www.icetactical.com/hard-shelljkt.html
ICE will be producing a Canadianized version of this jacket in Cadpat temperate.  Anyone interested in it please email me for details:  matt@icetactical.com


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## sigtech (23 Jan 2006)

Just a little note about the Pres getting the ICE system, no not all reg units have it and we are still waiting on it. Now here is where it gets interesting. ICES will no longer be issued so therefore it isn't purchased anymore so if you need to get a new jacket and are still not entitled to it good luck. I had to wait almost a mouth to get a jacket that would even come close to fitting me. So should the PRes start getting these items when there are bases like Kingston that don't even stock these items yet for Regforce members?


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## geo (23 Jan 2006)

sigtech...
would imagine that there's a large order coming in with the new budget.
(Lots of people in Montreal in the same boat as Kingston)


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## sigtech (24 Jan 2006)

let's hope a buddy of mine went to the GM to get a new Jacket (ICE) because he blew the zipper out and he got sorry we only order them in as needed. Sad when a serving member can't even get a Jacket shrug let's hope the new goverment sends more money (I don't think I will hold my breath)


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## armyvern (24 Jan 2006)

Canadian Parachute Centre (CPC) hasn't been 'converted' to ICE yet either.


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## geo (24 Jan 2006)

I do find it interesting that the initial distribution of ICE is being dragged out....
wonder what the story is?


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## armyvern (24 Jan 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> I do find it interesting that the initial distribution of ICE is being dragged out....
> wonder what the story is?


Quite simple, the Air Force placed one huge contract order, paying for enough quantities of CEMS to ensure there was enough to kit all their pers mass delivered into the Supply system.

The Army didn't purchase this way. They placed smaller contractor orders, with staggered delivery dates into the system from the contractor over several years vice all at once.


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## geo (24 Jan 2006)

Armyvern
Uhhh.... yeah - figured that out for myself 
Just wondering on the economies experienced by the army by doing it this way.
Smaller orders usually spell out - higher unit cost $$$.... at the end of the day - did we save anything?


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## armyvern (24 Jan 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Armyvern
> Uhhh.... yeah - figured that out for myself
> Just wondering on the economies experienced by the army by doing it this way.
> Smaller orders usually spell out - higher unit cost $$$.... at the end of the day - did we save anything?


A question better posed to those who were involved in the decision making process at NDHQ. Well beyond the Supply Tech to answer this one. 

Perhaps, the Army had to budget it over X number of years due to replacing other equipment, vehs, wpns etc concurrently with new clothing items, deployed operations costs etc? Plus, the Army did come out with a whole lot more kit items  than the Air Force to purchase than the CEMS project did...costing a whole bunch more money. And we have a whole lot more personnel to kit out than the AF does. Don't know if that's the answer, but it's all I can think of to explain it.


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## lawandorder (6 Mar 2006)

Well its past the 25th of January 06, and I am with an Ottawa reserve unit and still haven't recieved anything new like what is being described.  Any new details?


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2006)

NDHQ is currently in the process of kitting out their Regular Force personnel. Your time will come.


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## Sig_Des (6 Mar 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> NDHQ is currently in the process of kitting out their Regular Force personnel. Your time will come.



hmm, I think I know how you feel about that one >


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## armyvern (6 Mar 2006)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> hmm, I think I know how you feel about that one >


Yepper.... I don't decide who gets them on what priority .... I just get to hand them out, listen to the complaints (not always nicely!!), and answer as to why or why not...


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## Sig_Des (6 Mar 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Yepper.... I don't decide who gets them on what priority .... I just get to hand them out, listen to the complaints (not always nicely!!), and answer as to why or why not...



LOL, I remember someone trying to exchange their Gerber....When asked what was wrong with it, they said they wanted one of the black ones instead...I believe they referred to it as a "Ninja-Gerber".

look on the Sup Techs face, priceless. I just happened to be getting my Gerber issued to me, and I think just to spite the guy, he gave me a black one. I was just happy to GET one.


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## lawandorder (6 Mar 2006)

The Black Gerber is better though, it locks while the silver one does not.


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## geo (6 Mar 2006)

black gerber has a crimper
was intended for the Sappers
Sappers aren't to use the crimper cause you have to fumble / pass the detonators between your hands a couple of times......

t'was a good idea though


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## Sig_Des (6 Mar 2006)

My black gerber doesn't have a crimper...I've seen the ones that do, though


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## dangerboy (6 Mar 2006)

The SOG has the crimper; which as was mentioned there is a Canforgen forbiding its use.


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## armyvern (7 Mar 2006)

Blaisboy said:
			
		

> The Black Gerber is better though, it locks while the silver one does not.



First generation silver and black gerbers are recalled as they have caused quite a few boo-boos due to their lack of locking mechanism. They were originally replaced by the black gerber with the locking mechanism. Now we are getting Gerber's from more than one contractor and some are black, some are silver, but both have locking mechanisms. If yours doesn't have a locking mechanism take it into clothing and exchange it for the authorized gerber.

Lot of the troops come into the counter and say they are not allowed to have the silver gerber when we give them that and state they must have the black gerber. Not quite correct, they must have a gerber with a locking mechanism...be it silver or black.

The other "black" knife is not a gerber but a SOG with crimping tool. Entitlement to this item is based upon the Unit that you are posted to and not by trade. CANFORGEN is indeed out on this knife last year stating that it was not to be used for crimping.


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## George Wallace (9 Mar 2006)

If you kept all your kit when you CT'd from the Reserves, then your Clothing Docs still exist and all your kit is still on your charge.  You never got to get anything for free in that transaction.  If your Docs don't exist, then that means that there was an Administrative Deduction that recouped all the costs of the items from your Reserve Pay.


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## armyvern (9 Mar 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> ....but I don't believe we can exchange it until we are again entitled to it (so once we hit our units).



Correct


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## geo (10 Mar 2006)

in the meantime.... darn!


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## armyvern (11 Mar 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> Looks like I'm going to be exchanging (well, bringing them in to be thrown out and replaced) some nicely worn socks and undies in 3 years.


I'm sure that as more gear and CTS items make their way into the Supply system from the manufacturer's...the entitlements will be changing.
Let's not forget that the current entitlements are being set because of requirement to kit out deploying pers first, then other Reg Force/ResF field personnel second. CTS is only purchasing so much / year. 

Training sites (such as Gagetown!!) fall to the bottom of the priority list for initial issues for alot of the CTS items because, quite simply put, our requirements for them are lesser than deploying and operational (mounting/force generator Units). As these higher priority Units become kitted out with the new items...the entitlement slides downwards towards the non-force generating units such as is now being experienced with the ICE.


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## Arctic Acorn (14 Mar 2006)

All that said Vern, do you think that the mounting of TF 1-07 will have an impact on Gagetowns priority status? 

As I understand it, 2RCR is going to form the nucleus for the TF, with significant reserve augmentation from 36 Bde (maybe 37 bde...I'm not sure). 

Do you think that this TF will get kitted out in Gagetown, or will they all have to wait until they go to Wainwright?


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## geo (14 Mar 2006)

troops will get their TWs aws the TF is forming. ARs will be issued at a later time - prior to deployment.


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## Hunter (14 Mar 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> What I'm asking is, re: the gerber, can I exchange it for the proper one (and maybe even my CTS socks/underwear etc) even though I am no longer supposed to have it? Or will it be taken away from me at stores? It is all still on my docs, but I am not really 'supposed' to have it as an officer cadet. All the other ex 'Mo guys got to keep all their kit....but I don't believe we can exchange it until we are again entitled to it (so once we hit our units).



Whenever I've had to exchange something I just take it into clothing stores at NHDQ and they've always just made a one-for-one swap without even referencing my docs.


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## brihard (6 Nov 2006)

Well, turns out they WERE joking back in the winter- however we did finally get issued the stuff this weekend; ICE jacket, pants, and two sets of fleece. No overalls or parka as of yet, but not a huge concern.

There are a whole lot of happy reservists in the national capital region this weekend. Safe bet is the stuff should be disseminating south through Ontario pretty soon.


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## Haggis (6 Nov 2006)

Brihard:

Did your SQ and BMQ troops get issued the ICE, IECS or were they left with the old OG107 cnavas stuff?


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## brihard (12 Nov 2006)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Brihard:
> 
> Did your SQ and BMQ troops get issued the ICE, IECS or were they left with the old OG107 cnavas stuff?



I know that the troops doing SQ at Connaught were bussed out to Walkley for the ICE, so they have it. I don't think the remainder of our unit's PAT platoon got it though- just the people actively on SQ right now. I'm not aware of us having any BMQ qualified troops who are not currently on the SQ.


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## acen (14 Nov 2006)

PAT Platoon most definitely did not get issued the ICE system. Some of us still have to wait over a month to get our initial kit in the first place


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## brihard (14 Nov 2006)

Well, that was fast. Today I saw some tool at Carleton in civvies with his ICE jacket and small pack on. I was too taken aback to stop and ask questions- he passed me coming out a door, going the other direction, but if I see him again I'll find out his deal and give him a few bits of friendly advice- like how not to look like a retard at a school swarming with incognito reservists...


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## 17thRecceSgt (14 Nov 2006)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Well, that was fast. Today I saw some tool at Carleton in civvies with his ICE jacket and small pack on. I was too taken aback to stop and ask questions- he passed me coming out a door, going the other direction, but if I see him again I'll find out his deal and give him a few bits of friendly advice- like how not to look like a retard at a school swarming with incognito reservists...



Just get his Service #, rank and name for his RDP   ;D


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## geo (14 Nov 2006)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Well, that was fast. Today I saw some tool at Carleton in civvies with his ICE jacket and small pack on. I was too taken aback to stop and ask questions- he passed me coming out a door, going the other direction, but if I see him again I'll find out his deal and give him a few bits of friendly advice- like how not to look like a retard at a school swarming with incognito reservists...



Just get his name & report him thru the regular channels.
It's amaazing how disuasive disciplinary procedures will affect all others


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## daftandbarmy (2 Dec 2006)

... or just let him keep on wearing the stuff so you've got a better chance with the chicks


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## geo (3 Dec 2006)

Daft....

NO!  

It just isn't an option. It's not right and it should be stopped


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