# What Exactly can your MP do to speed up your recruiting process?



## lordz33 (10 Nov 2005)

I have been trying to get into the Army since 2002 *(a good 3yrs)*. I applied right after my bro came back from BMQ in the fall of 2002. I was able to do my medical, aptitude test and the job interview b4 the end of the year. All i was waiting for was my PT (fitness test) when i got the call that the policy changed and that i have to be a Canadian citizen to join. I waited until i got my citizenship in December 2004 and went straight up to the recruiting centre right after my citizenship ceremony.... When i got they they had another story for me..the recruiter said i must have been in Canada for 10yrs or moved to Canada b4 i turned 16 else i would need to do a security check which could take from *6months to a year * to be done.
  I completed the form which i had completed intially in 2002 again and decided to wait. I handed the form back in and i was bouncing back and forth until the form was finally taken at 4900 yonge street (CFRC TORONTO) in may 2005. I decided to call CFRC Toronto yesterday and i was told that my file was still being processed and that it could take up to* 2yrs*. That was when i decided to put in more action. My bro is almost a Master Corporal as i speak and I'm still stuck in the process.
   I remember reading on this forum sometime back in 2003 that some People went to their MP's for help with their recruiting process so i decided to go talk to my MP.
  My question is this... *WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD I ASK MY MP FOR? AND IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT TALKING TO HIM WILL SPEED UP MY PROCESS?
   *


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## Kat Stevens (10 Nov 2005)

I just have to ask this, try not to take it out of context.  Do you really want to start a career in the military being known as a guy who tried to take a shortcut around the process that thousands of us before you had to endure?  I know the system is Godawful slow sometimes, but a necessary one.  By the way, what rank is an "almost M/Cpl"?


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## kincanucks (10 Nov 2005)

Here is what will happen:

You contact your MP;
They query the MND;
He queries ADM HR (Mil);
He queries CFRG HQ and they tell him that yes you have not been in Canada for ten years and the requirement exists for a pre-security assessment and that is the policy.
ADMHR(Mil) tells the MND;
The MND tell the MP; and
Your MP tells you that there is nothing to be done but wait.

Any change?  No.


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## lordz33 (10 Nov 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I just have to ask this, try not to take it out of context.   Do you really want to start a career in the military being known as a guy who tried to take a shortcut around the process that thousands of us before you had to endure?   I know the system is Godawful slow sometimes, but a necessary one.   By the way, what rank is an "almost M/Cpl"?



I don't see this as taking a shortcut...i see this as trying to get someone to do his/her job a little more efficiently.....The fact that i completed a form that should take 6-18months in 2002 and have to complete the form again in 2005 and have to wait again for another 2yrs just doesn't sound right to me...and talkingabout endurance i haven't hear of anyone so far who has had to wait for over 3years with little or no hope.....

   Talking about my bro, He completed his PLQ already this summer and according and the other guys i know in the army that brings him a step closer to M/Cpl.


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## kincanucks (10 Nov 2005)

:'(


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## spud (10 Nov 2005)

Nah, that's not a shortcut...why bother with a piddling MP tho, go straight to the source...Gen Hillier, query his office. I'm sure he would be happy to accomodate someone trying to circumvent the process. 

WARNING

The above is purely sarcasm. 

potato


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## alexpb (10 Nov 2005)

I'm not familiar with the system by all means but I was told there the system for enrollment was changed in September, changed for the better.

I believe the process is now faster, as i first started my tests in September and am shipping out to BMQ next week. 

Good luck with your process and I hope for you the best,

Alex


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## SHELLDRAKE!! (10 Nov 2005)

I know it sucks but the security clearance is an obviouse neccesity. Get the paperwork in without mistakes, wait for the call. Would you prefer a military that is based on recruits with a sketchy past? The screening process does need a total overhaul though because the time frames are taking way longer than they should.


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## fleeingjam (10 Nov 2005)

Hurry up and wait.... :rofl:


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## Infanteer (10 Nov 2005)

As well, as far as I know the security screening process isn't handled by the CF or the Department of National Defence - so bugging the MND about it probably won't get jack down with a government-wide security requirement.  Live with it and thank Al Qaeda for your troubles....


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## Jaxson (11 Nov 2005)

Hey man, i can talk from personal experience (civil charge requiring a background check that can take 4-8 months) that yes the wait sucks, but heres how you look at it, you have that much longer to get that much better prepared. You now have two options ahead of you, you can use the extra time that is required in doing your security check to sit around and be lazy, or you can use the time to get yourself in the best possible shape you are able to get yourself into.


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## lordz33 (11 Nov 2005)

Jaxson said:
			
		

> Hey man, i can talk from personal experience (civil charge requiring a background check that can take 4-8 months) that yes the wait sucks, but heres how you look at it, you have that much longer to get that much better prepared. You now have two options ahead of you, you can use the extra time that is required in doing your security check to sit around and be lazy, or you can use the time to get yourself in the best possible shape you are able to get yourself into.



i definitely understand what you mean by taking the time to get in shape but the main thing making me push this at this moment is simply because i just graduated from University this summer and my plan is to get my Military career started ASAP after getting my degree!!! i feel I'm in an OK coz i 've always been active (although i haven't been to the gym in about 1month) but then all i need to get back in Full shape is a week workout.....


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## Sigop2004 (11 Nov 2005)

lordz33 said:
			
		

> I don't see this as taking a shortcut...i see this as trying to get someone to do his/her job a little more efficiently.....The fact that i completed a form that should take 6-18months in 2002 and have to complete the form again in 2005 and have to wait again for another 2yrs just doesn't sound right to me...and talkingabout endurance i haven't hear of anyone so far who has had to wait for over 3years with little or no hope.....



If you think this is waiting a long time when you Have not been in Canada for 10 years then listen to this.
I just recently waited 3 years for a Component transfer from the reserve force to the regular force, I have 18 years of reserve service and it takes a while to verify that information. All I can say is that attempting to "go around" the established system will not only slow down your application but also could affect the applications of other people who are being processed in the system. I thought that 3 years was a long time to wait when I am already part of the organization but then I did some research and found out exactly what is involved in this process and realized that it might have been a little slow but there is a lot of paperwork that needs to be done and other items that need to be taken care of. The recruiting system is doing the best job they can to try to select the best people for the CF. On the security clearance side of things here is a hypothetical question " Would you hire someone as a member of your armed forces (if you were in charge) , give them access to YOUR national secrets and sometimes those of your Allies without first doing a COMPLETE security check on them? Now imagine the same thing if that person was from a different country and you had to get this background check information from another country. 

On a side note even UPDATING a security clearance I have been told is going to take at least 2 years for me. I am not increasing the level of my clearance just doing my 5 year update. (which everyone has to do every five years anyway. at certain security levels)

So I guess my advice is just wait it out and if it is meant to be it will happen. Oh and bye the way the recruiter probably said "UP TO 2 YEARS"it could be less


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## Jaxson (12 Nov 2005)

lordz33 said:
			
		

> i definitely understand what you mean by taking the time to get in shape but the main thing making me push this at this moment is simply because i just graduated from University this summer and my plan is to get my Military career started ASAP after getting my degree!!! i feel I'm in an OK coz i 've always been active (although i haven't been to the gym in about 1month) but then all i need to get back in Full shape is a week workout.....



Alright, so your in Ok shape, why don't you turn that OK into great. Id also like to say, regarding you wanting to get your career started ASAP, don't think your the only one, and don't think just cause you have a degree, that people should bend over backwards to help you get in and around the system (although congrats on the degree).   I'll tell you exactly how i feel about this, if i get into the army and go to BMQ, and i found out someone took a shortcut around the system, the same system that i had to go through for months and months, not only would i be extremely disappointed that such a thing could happen, but i would have an extremely negative opinion of the person who did this, because they obviously feel as though they are better than others and don't need to go through the same process. I do not mean this as a personal attack towards you I'm just saying, stop looking for ways around the obstacles, do it the same way as everyone else. Goodluck to you and your wait.


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## Zell_Dietrich (4 Jan 2006)

Well one’s Member of Parliament is supposed to be your advocate for you in any and all difficulties with the Federal government.  I know that my MP, Bill Graham, has busted a few bureaucratic heads when he has had to for the people in his riding.  And no you don’t need to give him pizza or strip for him.  MPs are a useful and wonderful resources; this is true if you’re talking about basically every single government department except one … I don’t understand why they would let your brother in and not yourself, (yay for timing eh) You are quite right to think of going to your MP to get an exemption – in every other department they are the ones you turn to.  

I unfortunately have to agree with those who have posted that doing this will slow you down.  At best it will get your filed pulled by people outside of the processing stream,  slowing it down and causing extra scrutiny,  at worst it could cause someone inside the system to drag their feet.  (Think of how fast a bartender serves the person who taps a Loonie on the counter to get service)  I understand it is frustrating,  I wish you the best.

Just curious,  -This could be a very bad idea – Have you had your brother give a very friendly call to ask about the status of your application?  Would a recruiter see you differently if she saw that you have close family in the service? If you are just waiting for one department to get the paperwork to another department then I doubt if even the GG (in all respect) could help you.


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## slyco (9 Jan 2006)

With the privacy act, CFRCs will not divulge any info to anyone but the applicant.  Having someone call on your behalf is useless.  Trust me, the only thing to do is to be patient and wait.


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## NavComm (9 Jan 2006)

Hmmm, that's curious. Really? How would a Ministerial review take place if the CF won't release information? I suspect there is probably a way for the member to give permission for their information to be disclosed to an MP.


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## career_radio-checker (9 Jan 2006)

First off, sorry you are getting screwed around by the system -- it sucks we all know. Second I am going to make a few enemies by suggesting you do contact an MP. No one likes a budger in line but most of the people who replied to your original question have stated that they waited the standard wait time or a couple of months over, while you have waited more than 3 years and was given conflicting information. What's more, people like sigop2004 did get screwed by the system but they have a chain of command too complain to and find out at least where their transfer/application stands -- you don't. All you have is the Recruiters at CFRC, which I highly respect as soldiers and as professional recruiters, but don't necessarily take care of the recruits as a chain of command does (example: weekly emails, updates, memos, weekly phone calls). Understandably, they simply don't have the time to do things like this for every recruit they see.

I would suggest you wait until the election is over and the MPs are given their respective responsibilities, and then contact your MP. I recommend you do this because:
1. Every MP is busy with their campaign and constituency work has been all but suspended;
2. This will give your application that much more time to go through the system and hopefully you get approved; and
3. Gives you more justification for going to your MP.

DO NOT GO TO THE MEDIA!!!!
the recruit waiting time has already been run by CTV.ca before. Some kid from France couldn't get in but his brother did. All this does is expose a faulty system and plasters your name to the entire country and every member in the CF (not good for future careers). It is your right to raise a stink about an injustice on you, but it is your RESPONSIBILITY to address it to the right people and discreetly. An MP's office is bound by the same privacy rights and laws as any department, your case will be handled discreetly and promptly. (side note: its unfortunate but federal departments will drop everything and move clouds when they get a phone call from an MP. For this reason, MPs are a last resort that should only be used when all other avenues in the system have failed!!!) Another office you should consider contacting is the military ombudsman's office. 

With all that said, know that there are only 3 CISIS officers who process the security checks for the CF (heard it from a CISIS officer myself). So ya, give it a couple more months.

Good luck     

edit for spelling


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## kincanucks (9 Jan 2006)

slyco said:
			
		

> With the privacy act, CFRCs will not divulge any info to anyone but the applicant.  Having someone call on your behalf is useless.  Trust me, the only thing to do is to be patient and wait.



This does not apply to Ministerial or official inquiries.


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## enfield (9 Jan 2006)

Oddly enough, I just contacted my MP with my own recruiting/Component Transfer problems. No idea how it might turn out, but it could not go any slower, so I see no harm in my particular case. 

The recruiting system - all of it - is monumentally bad. Recruiting, processing, component transfer, verification of former service, security checks, everything is poorly done, over-organized, and inefficient. There is no other job on earth that takes 2-3 years to get into, and there is no reason the CF should. Every other military in the western world processes people far faster - weeks rather than years. Some even recruit foreigners, and process them faster than the CF does Canadian citizens.  I think the CF is the only military in the world where former military service - even Canadian military experience - hampers your applications rather than speed it up.

I say do anything and everything necessary to get in (except going to the media!). The system is screwed (for a range of reasons) and unjusitifiable. Try the ombudsman as well. But, like career_radio_checker said, do it discreetly and rationally. Present your case, do so in a reasoned and articulate manner (in writing is always best), take notes, details, and dates of conversations and actions, and hold people to their statements. For example, I have a 5 page timeline, with names, dates, and details of my adventure to date and any action I take or correspondence I write, I talk over with knowledgable friends and family. 

Your MP is your representative to the Federal Government - if someone in the CF dislikes answering questions of civil authority, thats their problem.


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## slyco (9 Jan 2006)

I am regretful that I did not express myself correctly.  What I meant is that people such as family members, as suggested earlier (ie brother in the military), could not have access to your information under the Privacy Act.  However, your MP or Minister could.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## kitrad1 (11 Jan 2006)

The entire issue regarding pre-security assessments and residency requirements is not a recruiting issue. These are requirements under the Government of Canada Security Policy. Bottom line is that the recruiting centre has nothing to do or say about it. In short, as Kincanucks has mentioned, (as well as a number of others), going to your MP will not achieve anything. You also intimated about going to the media...I'm not sure what that would achieve, since they did a story on it several months back.

While there are some cases that take an inordinate amount of time, from what I've seen, the process is pretty fast...especially when you consider that people are being processed for about 100 occupations. 

I recall that some stats were put out last year that gave a breakdown on the average time for processing. If I find it, I'll put it up.


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## patros (14 Jan 2006)

I tend to disagree that the inefficiency of pre-screening assessments is not at least partly a recruiting issue. I agree that the screening is necessary for people under many circumstances (mine included). And I also understand that the screening is not handled directly by DND, so they can't be blamed for how long it takes. However, in my case they waited a full 8 months before even initiating the pre-screening. They also gave me conflicting information about how long it would take. Originally they had said it would take about 6 months. They later said it would take up to 18 months since I had recently spent a year living abroad (even though they had known this all along). Anecdotal, I know, but I have the feeling that it's not just me.

I think they need to streamline their process. In the case of DEO and NCM applicants who need the highest level pre-screening they should begin the security pre-screening as soon as they have the application. Process the CFAT/PT/Interview in the meantime and if the person fails the testing or interview, their security clearance can be removed from the waiting list. This would speed up the security pre-screening (by removing people who fail the PT/CFAT before their pre-screenings are actually processed), as well as speeding the recruitment process for these people in general. Getting the government to pump more funding into the agency that performs the security checks would also help.

In my case I applied in October 2004, and I may have to wait until early 2007 before I can even do an interview or physical. And at that point I may discover I am ineligible or unfit for service. It seems an awfully long time to keep someone waiting to find out that they may not even be right for the job. I am very interested in joining the forces, so don't give me any baloney about "if you really wanted in, you would wait however long it took". I just can't shake the impression that the recruiters I've been dealing with are not very professional and that the forces don't really want me (despite the $40,000 hiring bonus on my occupation choices). At this point I've started applying in the private sector, and if I got a really good job offer I think I'd be stupid to turn it down.


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## willy (14 Jan 2006)

The recruiting system has been acknowledged as being inadequate in its current form.  Maybe change is on its way.  Maybe complaining to MP's will speed the process up.  That said, the thing for potential recruits to take into consideration here is that they are entering an institution in which complaining can be one of the worst things they can do, particularly if the complaint is made improperly.  If, as a serving member, one were to skip links on the chain of command in order to piss and moan, then undesireable consequences would almost certainly follow.

Here are a few points for perspective recruits to consider on the topic of complaining within the military:

-Most often, as a new member, you are going to have unrealistic expectations.  When those expectations fail to reconcile with reality, you're going to feel hurt, upset, offended, and hard done by.  In some rare cases, the juniormost of personnel come up with a legitimate beef.  Much more frequently, complaints from the newest personnel result from the fact that those personnel have a poor or incomplete understanding of the system in place, and as a result they end up feeling slighted even though that feeling is not justifiable.  This is one of the things that new recruits just have to get over, and all prospective recruits should be cautioned that they're going to have to get good at sucking up BS in order to succeed in the military.

-The military has a number of official channels intended to deal with complaints.  The avenues of approach for submitting complaints properly include the redress of grievance process, the office of the ombudsman, and to a lesser extent, the office of the padre.  If you're going to complain about something after you've sworn into the military, you'd better make sure that you follow the process to the letter of the law, and that you have all your ducks in a row.  If not, you will be subject to administrative and disciplinary action.

I can't see anything legally wrong with complaining to an MP of problems with the recruiting process, but mention of the word complaint by a prospective new member of the CF raises a red flag with me.  Once you're in the military, civvie rules no longer apply, and if you're of the complaining mindset to begin with, then you may find your stay in the CF to be both unpleasant and short.


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