# WEB Griffen



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:14:55 *
Really?
    Sounds good to me. Do you read the Corps series at all?
Pete
>From: Thomas A Bisping 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0600
>
>Pete,
>
>     The Aviators was last in 1988.  Just released January 2001, is
>"Special Ops"  I just got it and am getting ready to start reading it.
>It is supposedly, "the one more story left in the series, that hadn‘t
>been told," or something.  I‘ve heard this is supposed to absolutely be
>the last in the series.  Tom
>
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:09:22 "Peter deVries" 
>writes:
> > Tom,
> >    Whats the newest edition to the Brotherhood of War? Is it the
> > Aviators,
> > or something else? Soryy it‘s a bit off topic.
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:54:37 -0600
> > >
> > >John:
> > >
> > >      Are you trying to cause my brain to catch fire?  LOL.   I
> > guess I‘m
> > >greatful I was a "redleg" and not An Adjutant General Corps
> > Officer.  I‘m
> > >sure there are exceptions to every rule.  And you are right about
> > >absolutes.  I‘ve read all of W.E.B. Griffith‘s Brotherhood of War
> > Series.
> > >  I‘ve also just received The newest edition to it.  13 years
> > after the
> > >last one.  I‘m sure a battlefield commission would be done
> > regardless of
> > >where the soldier was born because after all he is risking his neck
> > for
> > >the US.  Rules and Regs. change constantly and it‘s going on four
> > years
> > >since I last wore a uniform.  But what I can do is ask the ROTC
> > >Detachment at my University, and see what the latest reg is.  The
> > >Department of the Army Civilian Administrator has been there for
> > over 30
> > >years.  She‘s forgotten more regulations regarding commissions in
> > the US
> > >Army then a lot of people, myself included will ever know.   How
> > about we
> > >let the thread rest until I can get in touch with her and find out
> > the
> > >real deal?  And remember if the answer I get doesn‘t sound fair,
> > >remember there‘s the right way, the wrong way, and the army way.
> > The
> > >Army way always wins!  I‘ll post what I found out on this board.
> > >      Earleir there was a short lived thread of famous movie quotes
> > and so
> > >from "Magnum Force"..."A man‘s got to know his limitations!"  and
> > believe
> > >me I know mine.  Take Care.  Tom Bisping
> > >
> > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0500 "Gow"  writes:
> > > > "Range Control to Major Tom"
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I‘ve always wanted to transmit thatshowing my age
> > > >
> > > > The question is about to become fractured...as usual, because
> > > > Justice is not
> > > > only blind, but ignorant of absolutes...
> > > >
> > > > Here are a few variants...
> > > >
> > > > We take most of you para one at face value or given scenario,
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > prefer..
> > > >
> > > > i    Pte "X" has the requisite college hours a in an American
> > > > College
> > > >
> > > >      b
> > > > in a recognised Cdn college
> > > > ii    Pte "X" has hours, but no degree from an a Canadian
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > b foreign university
> > > > iii    Pte "X" has a degree, or qualifying time classes etc in
> > a
> > > > Canadian
> > > > or non-American University
> > > > iv    Pte "X" has held a commission in an Allied State or
> > country,
> > > > and
> > > > applies for same with the USA while application for citizenship
> > is
> > > > incomplete
> > > > v    "Pte" "X" who may not be a Private at all, s an enlisted
> > > > member of US
> > > > Forces, in any given Branch
> > > >         has done certifiable service for the USA has qualified
> > for
> > > > a high
> > > > award with the USA has been seen             and written up for
> > > > award or
> > > > service like action by any US citizen would result in a
> > commission
> > > > being
> > > > offered smiling what then?..even if citizenship, has not, til
> > > > then, been
> > > > an issue and there proceeds a         paperwork problem in
> > granting
> > > > same?
> > > >
> > > > BTW I sit on the Canada Standards Association Board for our
> > trade,
> > > > so these
> > > > are interesting and relevant disputes that require a lot of
> > thought,
> > > > so it
> > > > kind of amuses me to raise like issues...and they are, in fact
> > > > relevant to
> > > > my learning, not just aggravating other guys....so I have a
> > tough
> > > > time in
> > > > taking the immutable rule standard of thinking.
> > > >
> > > > So going down the drain with this course of thought, perhaps the
> > USA
> > > > DOD
> > > > would approach the State Department with an urgent
> > consideration...
> > > >
> > > > But that‘s not really fair, because the ones that don‘t pass
> > through
> > > > the
> > > > screen at fifty meters without touching wires have not the same
> > > > "rights"
> > > >
> > > > Going from some great books, written by W.E.B. Griffin, you
> > could
> > > > perhaps,
> > > > again, today, not "can" get the commission before the degree.
> > The
> > > > writing
> > > > seemed pretty real-timed, so maybe by the way today...but seems
> > to
> > > > shut outa
> > > > lot of people that could/can, if given the chance.  And sending
> > them
> > > > to
> > > > college, on or off pay status...well, not sure where I sit on
> > that,
> > > > but to
> > > > coin a phrase "I am Canadian"
> > > >
> > > > Seems a bit wrog, what‘s the word? ...Double standard...that
> > > > citizenship
> > > > should be the deciding factor on who can be commissioned and who
> > > > cannot.
> > > >
> > > > Given, your country, not mine, and we never got tothe fine
> > > > definitions...but
> > > > a really interesting issue or idea.
> > > >
> > > > And, Sir, I don‘t mean this to be disrespectful or a
> > > > "flippancy"...just
> > > > something that is interesting....
> > > >
> > > > Best Respects
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:58 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > John:
> > > > >
> > > > >      Wow, good question!  First off, I would say if Mr. X,
> > we‘ll
> > > > call
> > > > > him, crosses into the US and enlists, goes to basic training
> > and
> > > > Advanced
> > > > > Individual Training, and goes to a unit.  Pvt. X becomes a
> > superb
> > > > > soldier.  It is conceivable that he could be recommended for
> > OCS,
> > > > if he
> > > > > met the ASVAB GT score and had the 60 credit hours 2 yrs of
> > > > college
> > > > > work.  Somewhere in the process I‘m going to have to say he‘d
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > become a US citizen.
> > > > >
> > > > >      When I said "commitment to obtaining citizenship", I was
> > > > referring
> > > > > to the fact that a person would want to be become a citizen of
> > the
> > > > US.
> > > > > And take the necessary steps to achieve it.  I don‘t know
> > thing
> > > > one
> > > > > about "dual citizenship" scenarios!
> > > > >
> > > > >     As far as a University degree goes, it‘s an absolute.
> > There
> > > > is now a
> > > > > program called "Green to Gold."  It takes bright enlisted
> > > > personnel,
> > > > > releases them from active duty early and sends them to a
> > College
> > > > or
> > > > > University that has an Army Reserve Officer Training Corps
> > > > program.  The
> > > > > program allows students to obtain their Officer Training and
> > > > University
> > > > > classes at the same time.  Participants are awarded a
> > scholarship,
> > > > have
> > > > > books, etc. taken care of, plus a small monthly stipend.  It
> > works
> > > > to
> > > > > bridge the gap between enlisted service and degree
> > requirements.
> > > > As far
> > > > > as after school service obligations go, I‘m not sure.  Of
> > course
> > > > I‘ll go
> > > > > to my University‘s web site, click on to the ROTC page, and
> > > > discover I
> > > > > gave you some erroneous data!  But I‘ll stay on the limb and
> > say
> > > > that
> > > > > citizenship is required for commissioned service but not
> > enlisted.
> > > >  Tom
> > > > > Bisping
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500 "Gow" 
> > writes:
> > > > > > Good evening Major Bisping
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given what you, it would be conceivable that a Canadian
> > could be
> > > > > > commissioned from the ranks, given he was accepted as a
> > soldier,
> > > > and
> > > > > > trained...wouldn‘t it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And tho‘ it makes me sound the barrack room lawyer,
> > "commitment
> > > > to
> > > > > > obtaining
> > > > > > citizenship" would not necessarily be the same as "obtaining
> > > > > > citizenship".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would it not be accepted as "for the good of the Service",
> > or
> > > > the
> > > > > > "exigencies of the Service"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For that matter, would not having a university degree enter
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for shedding light on an interesting point, by the
> > way!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:29 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >    In 1982, an applicant for a Commission to the US Army
> > had
> > > > to be
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Resident Alien, and Naturalized Citizen at commissioning.
> > 19
> > > > > > years
> > > > > > > later, I‘m sure that this rule stands, if not tougher.  In
> > > > 1984,
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > Korea, we had a guy from Ste. Sault Marie, Ontario, in my
> > > > battery.
> > > > > >  He
> > > > > > > simply crossed over into Michigan and enlisted.  I had
> > never
> > > > seen
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > before, but there he was.  Of course when of my favorite
> > > > topics,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > 40,000 Canadians that served in Vietnam, with the US Armed
> > > > Forces,
> > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > lot of kids who were on extended visits or school and got
> > a
> > > > letter
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > the neighborhood draft board.  But as far as I can recall,
> > > > > > commissioning,
> > > > > > > called for a committment to obtaining US citizenship.  And
> > > > since
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > regulations are across the board for each branch of
> > service, I
> > > > > > would feel
> > > > > > > safe going out on the limb and saying that unless a
> > Canadian
> > > > > > Citizen came
> > > > > > > to America with the intention of becoming a citizen,
> > he/she
> > > > could
> > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > commissioned in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
> > United
> > > > > > States.  Any
> > > > > > > Yanks out there, please shout if I got this wrong.  Tom
> > > > Bisping
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > >message body.
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Thomas A Bisping <tbisping1@Juno.com>* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:47:37 -0600*
Pete:
     Yes.  It‘s good.  But being Army myself, I have to lean a little
more to The Brotherhood.  I haven‘t read any of his OSS in Argentina
books, though.  Tom
On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:14:55 "Peter deVries" 
writes:
> Really?
>     Sounds good to me. Do you read the Corps series at all?
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0600
> >
> >Pete,
> >
> >     The Aviators was last in 1988.  Just released January 2001, is
> >"Special Ops"  I just got it and am getting ready to start reading 
> it.
> >It is supposedly, "the one more story left in the series, that 
> hadn‘t
> >been told," or something.  I‘ve heard this is supposed to 
> absolutely be
> >the last in the series.  Tom
> >
> >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:09:22 "Peter deVries" 
> 
> >writes:
> > > Tom,
> > >    Whats the newest edition to the Brotherhood of War? Is it the
> > > Aviators,
> > > or something else? Soryy it‘s a bit off topic.
> > > Pete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> > > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:54:37 -0600
> > > >
> > > >John:
> > > >
> > > >      Are you trying to cause my brain to catch fire?  LOL.   I
> > > guess I‘m
> > > >greatful I was a "redleg" and not An Adjutant General Corps
> > > Officer.  I‘m
> > > >sure there are exceptions to every rule.  And you are right 
> about
> > > >absolutes.  I‘ve read all of W.E.B. Griffith‘s Brotherhood of 
> War
> > > Series.
> > > >  I‘ve also just received The newest edition to it.  13 years
> > > after the
> > > >last one.  I‘m sure a battlefield commission would be done
> > > regardless of
> > > >where the soldier was born because after all he is risking his 
> neck
> > > for
> > > >the US.  Rules and Regs. change constantly and it‘s going on 
> four
> > > years
> > > >since I last wore a uniform.  But what I can do is ask the ROTC
> > > >Detachment at my University, and see what the latest reg is.  
> The
> > > >Department of the Army Civilian Administrator has been there 
> for
> > > over 30
> > > >years.  She‘s forgotten more regulations regarding commissions 
> in
> > > the US
> > > >Army then a lot of people, myself included will ever know.   
> How
> > > about we
> > > >let the thread rest until I can get in touch with her and find 
> out
> > > the
> > > >real deal?  And remember if the answer I get doesn‘t sound 
> fair,
> > > >remember there‘s the right way, the wrong way, and the army 
> way.
> > > The
> > > >Army way always wins!  I‘ll post what I found out on this 
> board.
> > > >      Earleir there was a short lived thread of famous movie 
> quotes
> > > and so
> > > >from "Magnum Force"..."A man‘s got to know his limitations!"  
> and
> > > believe
> > > >me I know mine.  Take Care.  Tom Bisping
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0500 "Gow"  
> writes:
> > > > > "Range Control to Major Tom"
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, I‘ve always wanted to transmit thatshowing my age
> > > > >
> > > > > The question is about to become fractured...as usual, 
> because
> > > > > Justice is not
> > > > > only blind, but ignorant of absolutes...
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are a few variants...
> > > > >
> > > > > We take most of you para one at face value or given 
> scenario,
> > > if
> > > > > you
> > > > > prefer..
> > > > >
> > > > > i    Pte "X" has the requisite college hours a in an 
> American
> > > > > College
> > > > >
> > > > >      b
> > > > > in a recognised Cdn college
> > > > > ii    Pte "X" has hours, but no degree from an a Canadian
> > > > > University
> > > > >
> > > > > b foreign university
> > > > > iii    Pte "X" has a degree, or qualifying time classes etc 
> in
> > > a
> > > > > Canadian
> > > > > or non-American University
> > > > > iv    Pte "X" has held a commission in an Allied State or
> > > country,
> > > > > and
> > > > > applies for same with the USA while application for 
> citizenship
> > > is
> > > > > incomplete
> > > > > v    "Pte" "X" who may not be a Private at all, s an 
> enlisted
> > > > > member of US
> > > > > Forces, in any given Branch
> > > > >         has done certifiable service for the USA has 
> qualified
> > > for
> > > > > a high
> > > > > award with the USA has been seen             and written up 
> for
> > > > > award or
> > > > > service like action by any US citizen would result in a
> > > commission
> > > > > being
> > > > > offered smiling what then?..even if citizenship, has not, 
> til
> > > > > then, been
> > > > > an issue and there proceeds a         paperwork problem in
> > > granting
> > > > > same?
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW I sit on the Canada Standards Association Board for our
> > > trade,
> > > > > so these
> > > > > are interesting and relevant disputes that require a lot of
> > > thought,
> > > > > so it
> > > > > kind of amuses me to raise like issues...and they are, in 
> fact
> > > > > relevant to
> > > > > my learning, not just aggravating other guys....so I have a
> > > tough
> > > > > time in
> > > > > taking the immutable rule standard of thinking.
> > > > >
> > > > > So going down the drain with this course of thought, perhaps 
> the
> > > USA
> > > > > DOD
> > > > > would approach the State Department with an urgent
> > > consideration...
> > > > >
> > > > > But that‘s not really fair, because the ones that don‘t pass
> > > through
> > > > > the
> > > > > screen at fifty meters without touching wires have not the 
> same
> > > > > "rights"
> > > > >
> > > > > Going from some great books, written by W.E.B. Griffin, you
> > > could
> > > > > perhaps,
> > > > > again, today, not "can" get the commission before the 
> degree.
> > > The
> > > > > writing
> > > > > seemed pretty real-timed, so maybe by the way today...but 
> seems
> > > to
> > > > > shut outa
> > > > > lot of people that could/can, if given the chance.  And 
> sending
> > > them
> > > > > to
> > > > > college, on or off pay status...well, not sure where I sit 
> on
> > > that,
> > > > > but to
> > > > > coin a phrase "I am Canadian"
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems a bit wrog, what‘s the word? ...Double standard...that
> > > > > citizenship
> > > > > should be the deciding factor on who can be commissioned and 
> who
> > > > > cannot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given, your country, not mine, and we never got tothe fine
> > > > > definitions...but
> > > > > a really interesting issue or idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > And, Sir, I don‘t mean this to be disrespectful or a
> > > > > "flippancy"...just
> > > > > something that is interesting....
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Respects
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:58 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the 
> wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > John:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Wow, good question!  First off, I would say if Mr. X,
> > > we‘ll
> > > > > call
> > > > > > him, crosses into the US and enlists, goes to basic 
> training
> > > and
> > > > > Advanced
> > > > > > Individual Training, and goes to a unit.  Pvt. X becomes a
> > > superb
> > > > > > soldier.  It is conceivable that he could be recommended 
> for
> > > OCS,
> > > > > if he
> > > > > > met the ASVAB GT score and had the 60 credit hours 2 yrs 
> of
> > > > > college
> > > > > > work.  Somewhere in the process I‘m going to have to say 
> he‘d
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > become a US citizen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      When I said "commitment to obtaining citizenship", I 
> was
> > > > > referring
> > > > > > to the fact that a person would want to be become a 
> citizen of
> > > the
> > > > > US.
> > > > > > And take the necessary steps to achieve it.  I don‘t know
> > > thing
> > > > > one
> > > > > > about "dual citizenship" scenarios!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     As far as a University degree goes, it‘s an absolute.
> > > There
> > > > > is now a
> > > > > > program called "Green to Gold."  It takes bright enlisted
> > > > > personnel,
> > > > > > releases them from active duty early and sends them to a
> > > College
> > > > > or
> > > > > > University that has an Army Reserve Officer Training Corps
> > > > > program.  The
> > > > > > program allows students to obtain their Officer Training 
> and
> > > > > University
> > > > > > classes at the same time.  Participants are awarded a
> > > scholarship,
> > > > > have
> > > > > > books, etc. taken care of, plus a small monthly stipend.  
> It
> > > works
> > > > > to
> > > > > > bridge the gap between enlisted service and degree
> > > requirements.
> > > > > As far
> > > > > > as after school service obligations go, I‘m not sure.  Of
> > > course
> > > > > I‘ll go
> > > > > > to my University‘s web site, click on to the ROTC page, 
> and
> > > > > discover I
> > > > > > gave you some erroneous data!  But I‘ll stay on the limb 
> and
> > > say
> > > > > that
> > > > > > citizenship is required for commissioned service but not
> > > enlisted.
> > > > >  Tom
> > > > > > Bisping
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500 "Gow" 
> > > writes:
> > > > > > > Good evening Major Bisping
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given what you, it would be conceivable that a Canadian
> > > could be
> > > > > > > commissioned from the ranks, given he was accepted as a
> > > soldier,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > trained...wouldn‘t it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And tho‘ it makes me sound the barrack room lawyer,
> > > "commitment
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > obtaining
> > > > > > > citizenship" would not necessarily be the same as 
> "obtaining
> > > > > > > citizenship".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would it not be accepted as "for the good of the 
> Service",
> > > or
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > "exigencies of the Service"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For that matter, would not having a university degree 
> enter
> > > into
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for shedding light on an interesting point, by 
> the
> > > way!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:29 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    In 1982, an applicant for a Commission to the US 
> Army
> > > had
> > > > > to be
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > Resident Alien, and Naturalized Citizen at 
> commissioning.
> > > 19
> > > > > > > years
> > > > > > > > later, I‘m sure that this rule stands, if not tougher. 
>  In
> > > > > 1984,
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > Korea, we had a guy from Ste. Sault Marie, Ontario, in 
> my
> > > > > battery.
> > > > > > >  He
> > > > > > > > simply crossed over into Michigan and enlisted.  I had
> > > never
> > > > > seen
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > before, but there he was.  Of course when of my 
> favorite
> > > > > topics,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > 40,000 Canadians that served in Vietnam, with the US 
> Armed
> > > > > Forces,
> > > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > > lot of kids who were on extended visits or school and 
> got
> > > a
> > > > > letter
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the neighborhood draft board.  But as far as I can 
> recall,
> > > > > > > commissioning,
> > > > > > > > called for a committment to obtaining US citizenship.  
> And
> > > > > since
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > regulations are across the board for each branch of
> > > service, I
> > > > > > > would feel
> > > > > > > > safe going out on the limb and saying that unless a
> > > Canadian
> > > > > > > Citizen came
> > > > > > > > to America with the intention of becoming a citizen,
> > > he/she
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > > commissioned in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
> > > United
> > > > > > > States.  Any
> > > > > > > > Yanks out there, please shout if I got this wrong.  
> Tom
> > > > > Bisping
> > > > > > > > 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a 
> message
> > > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > >message body.
> > >
> > >
>
>________________________________________________________________________
_
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> >message body.
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
>  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:30:20 *
Tom,
   Yeah, I haven‘t read any of the OSS ones either. I find myself getting to 
attached to the characters in the other series, that I don‘t want to switch 
to the OSS ones. What time frame is the latest one set in?
Pete
>From: Thomas A Bisping 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Re: WEB Griffen
>Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:47:37 -0600
>
>Pete:
>      Yes.  It‘s good.  But being Army myself, I have to lean a little
>more to The Brotherhood.  I haven‘t read any of his OSS in Argentina
>books, though.  Tom
>
>On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:14:55 "Peter deVries" 
>writes:
> > Really?
> >     Sounds good to me. Do you read the Corps series at all?
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0600
> > >
> > >Pete,
> > >
> > >     The Aviators was last in 1988.  Just released January 2001, is
> > >"Special Ops"  I just got it and am getting ready to start reading
> > it.
> > >It is supposedly, "the one more story left in the series, that
> > hadn‘t
> > >been told," or something.  I‘ve heard this is supposed to
> > absolutely be
> > >the last in the series.  Tom
> > >
> > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:09:22 "Peter deVries"
> > 
> > >writes:
> > > > Tom,
> > > >    Whats the newest edition to the Brotherhood of War? Is it the
> > > > Aviators,
> > > > or something else? Soryy it‘s a bit off topic.
> > > > Pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> > > > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:54:37 -0600
> > > > >
> > > > >John:
> > > > >
> > > > >      Are you trying to cause my brain to catch fire?  LOL.   I
> > > > guess I‘m
> > > > >greatful I was a "redleg" and not An Adjutant General Corps
> > > > Officer.  I‘m
> > > > >sure there are exceptions to every rule.  And you are right
> > about
> > > > >absolutes.  I‘ve read all of W.E.B. Griffith‘s Brotherhood of
> > War
> > > > Series.
> > > > >  I‘ve also just received The newest edition to it.  13 years
> > > > after the
> > > > >last one.  I‘m sure a battlefield commission would be done
> > > > regardless of
> > > > >where the soldier was born because after all he is risking his
> > neck
> > > > for
> > > > >the US.  Rules and Regs. change constantly and it‘s going on
> > four
> > > > years
> > > > >since I last wore a uniform.  But what I can do is ask the ROTC
> > > > >Detachment at my University, and see what the latest reg is.
> > The
> > > > >Department of the Army Civilian Administrator has been there
> > for
> > > > over 30
> > > > >years.  She‘s forgotten more regulations regarding commissions
> > in
> > > > the US
> > > > >Army then a lot of people, myself included will ever know.
> > How
> > > > about we
> > > > >let the thread rest until I can get in touch with her and find
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > >real deal?  And remember if the answer I get doesn‘t sound
> > fair,
> > > > >remember there‘s the right way, the wrong way, and the army
> > way.
> > > > The
> > > > >Army way always wins!  I‘ll post what I found out on this
> > board.
> > > > >      Earleir there was a short lived thread of famous movie
> > quotes
> > > > and so
> > > > >from "Magnum Force"..."A man‘s got to know his limitations!"
> > and
> > > > believe
> > > > >me I know mine.  Take Care.  Tom Bisping
> > > > >
> > > > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0500 "Gow" 
> > writes:
> > > > > > "Range Control to Major Tom"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry, I‘ve always wanted to transmit thatshowing my age
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The question is about to become fractured...as usual,
> > because
> > > > > > Justice is not
> > > > > > only blind, but ignorant of absolutes...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here are a few variants...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We take most of you para one at face value or given
> > scenario,
> > > > if
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > prefer..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i    Pte "X" has the requisite college hours a in an
> > American
> > > > > > College
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      b
> > > > > > in a recognised Cdn college
> > > > > > ii    Pte "X" has hours, but no degree from an a Canadian
> > > > > > University
> > > > > >
> > > > > > b foreign university
> > > > > > iii    Pte "X" has a degree, or qualifying time classes etc
> > in
> > > > a
> > > > > > Canadian
> > > > > > or non-American University
> > > > > > iv    Pte "X" has held a commission in an Allied State or
> > > > country,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > applies for same with the USA while application for
> > citizenship
> > > > is
> > > > > > incomplete
> > > > > > v    "Pte" "X" who may not be a Private at all, s an
> > enlisted
> > > > > > member of US
> > > > > > Forces, in any given Branch
> > > > > >         has done certifiable service for the USA has
> > qualified
> > > > for
> > > > > > a high
> > > > > > award with the USA has been seen             and written up
> > for
> > > > > > award or
> > > > > > service like action by any US citizen would result in a
> > > > commission
> > > > > > being
> > > > > > offered smiling what then?..even if citizenship, has not,
> > til
> > > > > > then, been
> > > > > > an issue and there proceeds a         paperwork problem in
> > > > granting
> > > > > > same?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW I sit on the Canada Standards Association Board for our
> > > > trade,
> > > > > > so these
> > > > > > are interesting and relevant disputes that require a lot of
> > > > thought,
> > > > > > so it
> > > > > > kind of amuses me to raise like issues...and they are, in
> > fact
> > > > > > relevant to
> > > > > > my learning, not just aggravating other guys....so I have a
> > > > tough
> > > > > > time in
> > > > > > taking the immutable rule standard of thinking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So going down the drain with this course of thought, perhaps
> > the
> > > > USA
> > > > > > DOD
> > > > > > would approach the State Department with an urgent
> > > > consideration...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But that‘s not really fair, because the ones that don‘t pass
> > > > through
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > screen at fifty meters without touching wires have not the
> > same
> > > > > > "rights"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Going from some great books, written by W.E.B. Griffin, you
> > > > could
> > > > > > perhaps,
> > > > > > again, today, not "can" get the commission before the
> > degree.
> > > > The
> > > > > > writing
> > > > > > seemed pretty real-timed, so maybe by the way today...but
> > seems
> > > > to
> > > > > > shut outa
> > > > > > lot of people that could/can, if given the chance.  And
> > sending
> > > > them
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > college, on or off pay status...well, not sure where I sit
> > on
> > > > that,
> > > > > > but to
> > > > > > coin a phrase "I am Canadian"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seems a bit wrog, what‘s the word? ...Double standard...that
> > > > > > citizenship
> > > > > > should be the deciding factor on who can be commissioned and
> > who
> > > > > > cannot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given, your country, not mine, and we never got tothe fine
> > > > > > definitions...but
> > > > > > a really interesting issue or idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And, Sir, I don‘t mean this to be disrespectful or a
> > > > > > "flippancy"...just
> > > > > > something that is interesting....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Respects
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:58 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > John:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      Wow, good question!  First off, I would say if Mr. X,
> > > > we‘ll
> > > > > > call
> > > > > > > him, crosses into the US and enlists, goes to basic
> > training
> > > > and
> > > > > > Advanced
> > > > > > > Individual Training, and goes to a unit.  Pvt. X becomes a
> > > > superb
> > > > > > > soldier.  It is conceivable that he could be recommended
> > for
> > > > OCS,
> > > > > > if he
> > > > > > > met the ASVAB GT score and had the 60 credit hours 2 yrs
> > of
> > > > > > college
> > > > > > > work.  Somewhere in the process I‘m going to have to say
> > he‘d
> > > > have
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > become a US citizen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      When I said "commitment to obtaining citizenship", I
> > was
> > > > > > referring
> > > > > > > to the fact that a person would want to be become a
> > citizen of
> > > > the
> > > > > > US.
> > > > > > > And take the necessary steps to achieve it.  I don‘t know
> > > > thing
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > about "dual citizenship" scenarios!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >     As far as a University degree goes, it‘s an absolute.
> > > > There
> > > > > > is now a
> > > > > > > program called "Green to Gold."  It takes bright enlisted
> > > > > > personnel,
> > > > > > > releases them from active duty early and sends them to a
> > > > College
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > University that has an Army Reserve Officer Training Corps
> > > > > > program.  The
> > > > > > > program allows students to obtain their Officer Training
> > and
> > > > > > University
> > > > > > > classes at the same time.  Participants are awarded a
> > > > scholarship,
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > books, etc. taken care of, plus a small monthly stipend.
> > It
> > > > works
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > bridge the gap between enlisted service and degree
> > > > requirements.
> > > > > > As far
> > > > > > > as after school service obligations go, I‘m not sure.  Of
> > > > course
> > > > > > I‘ll go
> > > > > > > to my University‘s web site, click on to the ROTC page,
> > and
> > > > > > discover I
> > > > > > > gave you some erroneous data!  But I‘ll stay on the limb
> > and
> > > > say
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > citizenship is required for commissioned service but not
> > > > enlisted.
> > > > > >  Tom
> > > > > > > Bisping
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500 "Gow" 
> > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > Good evening Major Bisping
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Given what you, it would be conceivable that a Canadian
> > > > could be
> > > > > > > > commissioned from the ranks, given he was accepted as a
> > > > soldier,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > trained...wouldn‘t it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And tho‘ it makes me sound the barrack room lawyer,
> > > > "commitment
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > obtaining
> > > > > > > > citizenship" would not necessarily be the same as
> > "obtaining
> > > > > > > > citizenship".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would it not be accepted as "for the good of the
> > Service",
> > > > or
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > "exigencies of the Service"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For that matter, would not having a university degree
> > enter
> > > > into
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for shedding light on an interesting point, by
> > the
> > > > way!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:29 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > > > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    In 1982, an applicant for a Commission to the US
> > Army
> > > > had
> > > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > Resident Alien, and Naturalized Citizen at
> > commissioning.
> > > > 19
> > > > > > > > years
> > > > > > > > > later, I‘m sure that this rule stands, if not tougher.
> >  In
> > > > > > 1984,
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > Korea, we had a guy from Ste. Sault Marie, Ontario, in
> > my
> > > > > > battery.
> > > > > > > >  He
> > > > > > > > > simply crossed over into Michigan and enlisted.  I had
> > > > never
> > > > > > seen
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > before, but there he was.  Of course when of my
> > favorite
> > > > > > topics,
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > 40,000 Canadians that served in Vietnam, with the US
> > Armed
> > > > > > Forces,
> > > > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > > > lot of kids who were on extended visits or school and
> > got
> > > > a
> > > > > > letter
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the neighborhood draft board.  But as far as I can
> > recall,
> > > > > > > > commissioning,
> > > > > > > > > called for a committment to obtaining US citizenship.
> > And
> > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > regulations are across the board for each branch of
> > > > service, I
> > > > > > > > would feel
> > > > > > > > > safe going out on the limb and saying that unless a
> > > > Canadian
> > > > > > > > Citizen came
> > > > > > > > > to America with the intention of becoming a citizen,
> > > > he/she
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > > > commissioned in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
> > > > United
> > > > > > > > States.  Any
> > > > > > > > > Yanks out there, please shout if I got this wrong.
> > Tom
> > > > > > Bisping
> > > > > > > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a
> > message
> > > > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > >message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
>_
> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > >message body.
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Thomas A Bisping <tbisping1@Juno.com>* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:45:27 -0600*
Pete:
     "Special Ops", takes place in the 1964 to 1967 time frame in the
Congo and Bolivia, with the secenario being a fictionalized account of
the real US Special Forces efforts in the pursuit and killing of "Che"
Guevera.  The Bolivian Army Rangers who sprung the fatal ambush were
trained and advised by US Special Forces, in 1967.  It looks promising. 
Tom
On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:30:20 "Peter deVries" 
writes:
> 
> Tom,
>    Yeah, I haven‘t read any of the OSS ones either. I find myself 
> getting to 
> attached to the characters in the other series, that I don‘t want to 
> switch 
> to the OSS ones. What time frame is the latest one set in?
> Pete
> 
> >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >Subject: Re: WEB Griffen
> >Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:47:37 -0600
> >
> >Pete:
> >      Yes.  It‘s good.  But being Army myself, I have to lean a 
> little
> >more to The Brotherhood.  I haven‘t read any of his OSS in 
> Argentina
> >books, though.  Tom
> >
> >On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:14:55 "Peter deVries" 
> 
> >writes:
> > > Really?
> > >     Sounds good to me. Do you read the Corps series at all?
> > > Pete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> > > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0600
> > > >
> > > >Pete,
> > > >
> > > >     The Aviators was last in 1988.  Just released January 
> 2001, is
> > > >"Special Ops"  I just got it and am getting ready to start 
> reading
> > > it.
> > > >It is supposedly, "the one more story left in the series, that
> > > hadn‘t
> > > >been told," or something.  I‘ve heard this is supposed to
> > > absolutely be
> > > >the last in the series.  Tom
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:09:22 "Peter deVries"
> > > 
> > > >writes:
> > > > > Tom,
> > > > >    Whats the newest edition to the Brotherhood of War? Is it 
> the
> > > > > Aviators,
> > > > > or something else? Soryy it‘s a bit off topic.
> > > > > Pete
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Thomas A Bisping 
> > > > > >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > > >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the 
> wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:54:37 -0600
> > > > > >
> > > > > >John:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Are you trying to cause my brain to catch fire?  LOL. 
>   I
> > > > > guess I‘m
> > > > > >greatful I was a "redleg" and not An Adjutant General Corps
> > > > > Officer.  I‘m
> > > > > >sure there are exceptions to every rule.  And you are right
> > > about
> > > > > >absolutes.  I‘ve read all of W.E.B. Griffith‘s Brotherhood 
> of
> > > War
> > > > > Series.
> > > > > >  I‘ve also just received The newest edition to it.  13 
> years
> > > > > after the
> > > > > >last one.  I‘m sure a battlefield commission would be done
> > > > > regardless of
> > > > > >where the soldier was born because after all he is risking 
> his
> > > neck
> > > > > for
> > > > > >the US.  Rules and Regs. change constantly and it‘s going 
> on
> > > four
> > > > > years
> > > > > >since I last wore a uniform.  But what I can do is ask the 
> ROTC
> > > > > >Detachment at my University, and see what the latest reg 
> is.
> > > The
> > > > > >Department of the Army Civilian Administrator has been 
> there
> > > for
> > > > > over 30
> > > > > >years.  She‘s forgotten more regulations regarding 
> commissions
> > > in
> > > > > the US
> > > > > >Army then a lot of people, myself included will ever know.
> > > How
> > > > > about we
> > > > > >let the thread rest until I can get in touch with her and 
> find
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > >real deal?  And remember if the answer I get doesn‘t sound
> > > fair,
> > > > > >remember there‘s the right way, the wrong way, and the army
> > > way.
> > > > > The
> > > > > >Army way always wins!  I‘ll post what I found out on this
> > > board.
> > > > > >      Earleir there was a short lived thread of famous 
> movie
> > > quotes
> > > > > and so
> > > > > >from "Magnum Force"..."A man‘s got to know his 
> limitations!"
> > > and
> > > > > believe
> > > > > >me I know mine.  Take Care.  Tom Bisping
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0500 "Gow" 
> > > writes:
> > > > > > > "Range Control to Major Tom"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sorry, I‘ve always wanted to transmit thatshowing my 
> age
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The question is about to become fractured...as usual,
> > > because
> > > > > > > Justice is not
> > > > > > > only blind, but ignorant of absolutes...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are a few variants...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We take most of you para one at face value or given
> > > scenario,
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > prefer..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i    Pte "X" has the requisite college hours a in an
> > > American
> > > > > > > College
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      b
> > > > > > > in a recognised Cdn college
> > > > > > > ii    Pte "X" has hours, but no degree from an a 
> Canadian
> > > > > > > University
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > b foreign university
> > > > > > > iii    Pte "X" has a degree, or qualifying time classes 
> etc
> > > in
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > Canadian
> > > > > > > or non-American University
> > > > > > > iv    Pte "X" has held a commission in an Allied State 
> or
> > > > > country,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > applies for same with the USA while application for
> > > citizenship
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > incomplete
> > > > > > > v    "Pte" "X" who may not be a Private at all, s an
> > > enlisted
> > > > > > > member of US
> > > > > > > Forces, in any given Branch
> > > > > > >         has done certifiable service for the USA has
> > > qualified
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > a high
> > > > > > > award with the USA has been seen             and 
> written up
> > > for
> > > > > > > award or
> > > > > > > service like action by any US citizen would result in a
> > > > > commission
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > offered smiling what then?..even if citizenship, has 
> not,
> > > til
> > > > > > > then, been
> > > > > > > an issue and there proceeds a         paperwork problem 
> in
> > > > > granting
> > > > > > > same?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BTW I sit on the Canada Standards Association Board for 
> our
> > > > > trade,
> > > > > > > so these
> > > > > > > are interesting and relevant disputes that require a lot 
> of
> > > > > thought,
> > > > > > > so it
> > > > > > > kind of amuses me to raise like issues...and they are, 
> in
> > > fact
> > > > > > > relevant to
> > > > > > > my learning, not just aggravating other guys....so I 
> have a
> > > > > tough
> > > > > > > time in
> > > > > > > taking the immutable rule standard of thinking.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So going down the drain with this course of thought, 
> perhaps
> > > the
> > > > > USA
> > > > > > > DOD
> > > > > > > would approach the State Department with an urgent
> > > > > consideration...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But that‘s not really fair, because the ones that don‘t 
> pass
> > > > > through
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > screen at fifty meters without touching wires have not 
> the
> > > same
> > > > > > > "rights"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Going from some great books, written by W.E.B. Griffin, 
> you
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > perhaps,
> > > > > > > again, today, not "can" get the commission before the
> > > degree.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > writing
> > > > > > > seemed pretty real-timed, so maybe by the way 
> today...but
> > > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > shut outa
> > > > > > > lot of people that could/can, if given the chance.  And
> > > sending
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > college, on or off pay status...well, not sure where I 
> sit
> > > on
> > > > > that,
> > > > > > > but to
> > > > > > > coin a phrase "I am Canadian"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seems a bit wrog, what‘s the word? ...Double 
> standard...that
> > > > > > > citizenship
> > > > > > > should be the deciding factor on who can be commissioned 
> and
> > > who
> > > > > > > cannot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given, your country, not mine, and we never got tothe 
> fine
> > > > > > > definitions...but
> > > > > > > a really interesting issue or idea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And, Sir, I don‘t mean this to be disrespectful or a
> > > > > > > "flippancy"...just
> > > > > > > something that is interesting....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best Respects
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:58 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      Wow, good question!  First off, I would say if 
> Mr. X,
> > > > > we‘ll
> > > > > > > call
> > > > > > > > him, crosses into the US and enlists, goes to basic
> > > training
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > Advanced
> > > > > > > > Individual Training, and goes to a unit.  Pvt. X 
> becomes a
> > > > > superb
> > > > > > > > soldier.  It is conceivable that he could be 
> recommended
> > > for
> > > > > OCS,
> > > > > > > if he
> > > > > > > > met the ASVAB GT score and had the 60 credit hours 2 
> yrs
> > > of
> > > > > > > college
> > > > > > > > work.  Somewhere in the process I‘m going to have to 
> say
> > > he‘d
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > become a US citizen.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      When I said "commitment to obtaining 
> citizenship", I
> > > was
> > > > > > > referring
> > > > > > > > to the fact that a person would want to be become a
> > > citizen of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > US.
> > > > > > > > And take the necessary steps to achieve it.  I don‘t 
> know
> > > > > thing
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > about "dual citizenship" scenarios!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     As far as a University degree goes, it‘s an 
> absolute.
> > > > > There
> > > > > > > is now a
> > > > > > > > program called "Green to Gold."  It takes bright 
> enlisted
> > > > > > > personnel,
> > > > > > > > releases them from active duty early and sends them to 
> a
> > > > > College
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > University that has an Army Reserve Officer Training 
> Corps
> > > > > > > program.  The
> > > > > > > > program allows students to obtain their Officer 
> Training
> > > and
> > > > > > > University
> > > > > > > > classes at the same time.  Participants are awarded a
> > > > > scholarship,
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > books, etc. taken care of, plus a small monthly 
> stipend.
> > > It
> > > > > works
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > bridge the gap between enlisted service and degree
> > > > > requirements.
> > > > > > > As far
> > > > > > > > as after school service obligations go, I‘m not sure.  
> Of
> > > > > course
> > > > > > > I‘ll go
> > > > > > > > to my University‘s web site, click on to the ROTC 
> page,
> > > and
> > > > > > > discover I
> > > > > > > > gave you some erroneous data!  But I‘ll stay on the 
> limb
> > > and
> > > > > say
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > citizenship is required for commissioned service but 
> not
> > > > > enlisted.
> > > > > > >  Tom
> > > > > > > > Bisping
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500 "Gow" 
> 
> > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > > Good evening Major Bisping
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Given what you, it would be conceivable that a 
> Canadian
> > > > > could be
> > > > > > > > > commissioned from the ranks, given he was accepted 
> as a
> > > > > soldier,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > trained...wouldn‘t it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And tho‘ it makes me sound the barrack room lawyer,
> > > > > "commitment
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > obtaining
> > > > > > > > > citizenship" would not necessarily be the same as
> > > "obtaining
> > > > > > > > > citizenship".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Would it not be accepted as "for the good of the
> > > Service",
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > "exigencies of the Service"?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For that matter, would not having a university 
> degree
> > > enter
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for shedding light on an interesting point, 
> by
> > > the
> > > > > way!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > John
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping" 
> > > > > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:29 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > > > > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    In 1982, an applicant for a Commission to the 
> US
> > > Army
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > Resident Alien, and Naturalized Citizen at
> > > commissioning.
> > > > > 19
> > > > > > > > > years
> > > > > > > > > > later, I‘m sure that this rule stands, if not 
> tougher.
> > >  In
> > > > > > > 1984,
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > Korea, we had a guy from Ste. Sault Marie, 
> Ontario, in
> > > my
> > > > > > > battery.
> > > > > > > > >  He
> > > > > > > > > > simply crossed over into Michigan and enlisted.  I 
> had
> > > > > never
> > > > > > > seen
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > before, but there he was.  Of course when of my
> > > favorite
> > > > > > > topics,
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > 40,000 Canadians that served in Vietnam, with the 
> US
> > > Armed
> > > > > > > Forces,
> > > > > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > > > > lot of kids who were on extended visits or school 
> and
> > > got
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > letter
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > the neighborhood draft board.  But as far as I can
> > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > commissioning,
> > > > > > > > > > called for a committment to obtaining US 
> citizenship.
> > > And
> > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > regulations are across the board for each branch 
> of
> > > > > service, I
> > > > > > > > > would feel
> > > > > > > > > > safe going out on the limb and saying that unless 
> a
> > > > > Canadian
> > > > > > > > > Citizen came
> > > > > > > > > > to America with the intention of becoming a 
> citizen,
> > > > > he/she
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > > > > commissioned in any branch of the Armed Forces of 
> the
> > > > > United
> > > > > > > > > States.  Any
> > > > > > > > > > Yanks out there, please shout if I got this wrong.
> > > Tom
> > > > > > > Bisping
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a
> > > message
> > > > > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish 
> to
> > > > > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
> the
> > > > > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a 
> message
> > > > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > > > 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a 
> message
> > > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > >message body.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > 
>
>________________________________________________________________________
> >_
> > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > >message body.
> > >
> > >
>
>________________________________________________________________________
_
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> >message body.
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
>  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------

