# Looking to interview (phone/skype) high performance fighter jet pilot



## SilentwaterTWT (5 Nov 2014)

Hi! Not sure if it's too abrupt to post in here like this but here I go. 

I'm a university engineering student doing a project on injury prevention mechanism design and fighter jet ejection seats have recently became the focus of my research. There are a lot of risks associated with the ejection mechanism yet the information and research in the area is sparse. 

So in an attempt to create an informative material to help focusing more research and funding in the area of ejection seats in fighter jets, it would be great if someone who has been trained in the area could answer a series of technical questions that will be recorded if consent is given. The pilot(s) will be free to decline any questions deemed sensitive and will preview what they said before it is put into presentation format and have the right to dissociate themselves or become anonymous. 

I only wish that my project will contributed in its little way to inform the public and push the professionals to focus more on improving existing ejection seat design in hopes that technology will continuously improve the safety of the Men and Women serving this great nation of ours.  

If you are interest, please leave a msg or private msg. Thank you!

ADD-ON: 
Ha...probably could have been more detailed  :facepalm:

Yes, it's both about ergonomics (comfort ) and an issue with safety. Ejection seats are really meant for emergency, the case study attached below (thank you very much) is as expected, on neck and head injuries from the instantaneous ejection but there is the very often neglected lumbar spine fracture (essentially the area under your chest and above pelvis). Yes, neck and head injuries are severe in comparison to lumbar but fracturing anywhere on the spine has a pretty big chance of causing long term issues. 

Essentially, YES, ejection seats eject(duh) and save lives, but being alive is not the same as unhurt. I want to look into ways to improve that from "just saving lives" to "lessening as much injury as possible".


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## SeaKingTacco (6 Nov 2014)

I can pretty much garauntee that no one who actually knows anything about ejection seats would touch your questions with a ten foot pole.


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## Good2Golf (6 Nov 2014)

Is there a significant issue with the modern ejection seats?  They seem to work fairly well when used within the envelope.

Maybe see what studies are available on the subject, such as Vorticity's study to link seat and occupant interaction in a dynamic hybrid simulation environment (seat-occupant interaction coupled with computational flow (airflow) analysis): http://www.vorticity-systems.com/case-studies/ejection-seat-and-crew-escape-systems-analysis/

Regards
G2G


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## Sf2 (6 Nov 2014)

oi, too early for them book learning words..... 8)


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## Shamrock (6 Nov 2014)

SF2 said:
			
		

> oi, too early for them book learning words..... 8)



Pilots don't get passionate about much, but when it comes to their sustained comfort regardless of the operational status of their aircraft, they perk right up.


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## Good2Golf (6 Nov 2014)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Pilots don't get passionate about much, but when it comes to their sustained comfort regardless of the operational status of their aircraft, they perk right up.



SF2 and I don't get an option..."Ride it in" is the only COA.


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## SilentwaterTWT (6 Nov 2014)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> I can pretty much garauntee that no one who actually knows anything about ejection seats would touch your questions with a ten foot pole.



Haha...the real technical aspects (mechanism and physics) is not the issue here, it is my area and there are real military tech. engineers who are pretty welcoming to next gen. engineers. I'm actually hoping for a subjective view from a pilot. Sitting in a room with computer simulations and calculations does next to nothing in real life, real human data is what I'm hoping to get.


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## SilentwaterTWT (6 Nov 2014)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Is there a significant issue with the modern ejection seats?  They seem to work fairly well when used within the envelope.
> 
> Maybe see what studies are available on the subject, such as Vorticity's study to link seat and occupant interaction in a dynamic hybrid simulation environment (seat-occupant interaction coupled with computational flow (airflow) analysis): http://www.vorticity-systems.com/case-studies/ejection-seat-and-crew-escape-systems-analysis/
> 
> ...



Not so much issue with it's ability to basically separate the pilot from the craft, but more so with the potential damages to the pilot during the process. It's like saying: CPR will save a person's life, but it probably will break a few ribs, so how do I save a life without breaking ribs


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## George Wallace (6 Nov 2014)

SilentwaterTWT said:
			
		

> Haha...the real technical aspects (mechanism and physics) is not the issue here, it is my area and there are real military tech. engineers who are pretty welcoming to next gen. engineers. I'm actually hoping for a subjective view from a pilot. Sitting in a room with computer simulations and calculations does next to nothing in real life, real human data is what I'm hoping to get.



As such, you should be going through the proper channels and have your company/organization fund your trip to interview those people face to face..


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## SilentwaterTWT (7 Nov 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As such, you should be going through the proper channels and have your company/organization fund your trip to interview those people face to face..



Thanks for the recommendation, I am trying to go through school channels as well but I suppose this is my jab in the dark out of frustration at the slowness from all the bureaucracy of proper channels. Needless to say, people are sensitive and defensive when they think their existing establishment may be challenged, even though that may not be the case.


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## Zoomie (7 Nov 2014)

Have you tried contacting Martin-Baker?  I strapped into one their seats many moons ago and felt pretty confident I would escape relatively unscathed.  

FWIW the Russians are said to make the finest escape systems on the market - or they were, I'm sure China has made a knock off copy.


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## SilentwaterTWT (8 Nov 2014)

Ditch said:
			
		

> Have you tried contacting Martin-Baker?  I strapped into one their seats many moons ago and felt pretty confident I would escape relatively unscathed.
> 
> FWIW the Russians are said to make the finest escape systems on the market - or they were, I'm sure China has made a knock off copy.



I definitely have looked into Martin-Baker, the marketing stuff really looks nice but an examination at the number they posted on the g's felt by the pilot while ejecting is enough to make the case for improvement. Essentially, most of the g's felt from the ejection blast are near 15 and that's actually pretty enough to cause lumbar spinal fractures that will have long term effect on different limbs for the pilot or just break a few bones if not done properly. Back to my point of, yes it saves lives pretty reliably, but what are the long term consequences for that experienced and highly-trained pilot? 

Thanks for the feedback though...even without interview I think I'm getting an idea on the general perception on the matter. No conclusions drawn but just enough for an impression.


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## observor 69 (8 Nov 2014)

I know, and I assume you do also, that there are clubs for those who have been forced to use this product. 

"In 1922 Leslie Irvin agreed to give a gold pin to every person whose life was saved by one of his parachutes. At the end of World War II the number of members with the Irvin pins had grown to over 34,000 though the total of people saved by Irvin parachutes is estimated to be 100,000.

The successor to the original Irvin company still provides pins to people who have made a jump. In addition to the Irvin Air Chute Company, other parachute manufacturers have also issued caterpillar pins for successful jumps. GC Parachutes formed their Gold Club in 1940.[4] The Switlik Parachute Company of Trenton, New Jersey issued both gold and silver caterpillar pins. The Pioneer Parachute Co. in Skokie, Illinois, also presented plaques to people who packed the parachutes that saved lives."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Club

 Is it possible that you could arrange to speak to some of these people. Many of them would be retirees with fairly recent use of an ejection seat.


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## Loachman (8 Nov 2014)

SilentwaterTWT said:
			
		

> the information and research in the area is sparse.



I am not sure what you base that assumption upon. There may be little available to the general public on the interweb, but there is a ton of information regarding ejection systems, and research and development is continual.

Every aircraft accident is thoroughly investigated, the cause factors are identified, and the lessons learned are applied to equipment, training, and procedures as applicable.

That includes ejection systems.

I know, or have known, several Pilots who have ejected, successfully or otherwise.

Everything is a compromise. Acceleration forces are one example. Excessive acceleration can indeed lead to injury, but insufficient acceleration can also lead to injury or death. An instructor in Moose Jaw was killed during an ejection in Calgary shortly after I left there in 1982. His companion survived, but I cannot remember if he was injured or not. Their engine failed on short final. Clancy was a fairly hefty fellow. The seat was unable to accelerate him enough to overcome the rate of decent of the Tutor and he hit the runway before his parachute opened.

The same investigation, development, and improvement extends to other areas as well.

Every IED explosion in Afghanistan was also investigated. These investigations have resulted in many improvements to equipment. I recently toured the General Dynamics factory in London and saw some of the results of this myself. The improvements to the new batch of LAV IIIs being built for us, and others, are huge.

I commend your interest and intention, and I hope that it leads somewhere for you, but it seems a little naïve to me.


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## SilentwaterTWT (9 Nov 2014)

Baden Guy said:
			
		

> I know, and I assume you do also, that there are clubs for those who have been forced to use this product.
> 
> "In 1922 Leslie Irvin agreed to give a gold pin to every person whose life was saved by one of his parachutes. At the end of World War II the number of members with the Irvin pins had grown to over 34,000 though the total of people saved by Irvin parachutes is estimated to be 100,000.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for this! This is very helpful as a new potential source.


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## SilentwaterTWT (9 Nov 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I am not sure what you base that assumption upon. There may be little available to the general public on the interweb, but there is a ton of information regarding ejection systems, and research and development is continual.
> 
> Every aircraft accident is thoroughly investigated, the cause factors are identified, and the lessons learned are applied to equipment, training, and procedures as applicable.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply. I understand the healthy skepticism on whether efforts are misplaced or not, hence, my research in the area. I'm just an undergrad student in engineering so no where near the point of being a change-maker...yet.  

The sparse information I refer to are specifically related to the injury mode I'm looking into. I'm extra interested in lower spinal injuries due to their short term and long term effects. I have interned in an pilot zero-g suit research facility to know that there is definitely continuous research in the area and I really think there's an opportunity here for improvement (until, maybe, my research concludes that it's not the case, haha)


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## The Bread Guy (9 Nov 2014)

SilentwaterTWT said:
			
		

> .... I have interned in an pilot zero-g suit research facility to know that there is definitely continuous research in the area and I really think there's an opportunity here for improvement (until, maybe, my research concludes that it's not the case, haha)


Sounds pretty specialized - where was that?

Have you worked with/tried contacting anyone with Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC)?  I don't know about what they do along these lines in detail, but I know they do a wide range of research of ALL kinds.


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## shogun506 (9 Feb 2015)

In addition to lumbar/spinal fractures, one path you may way to look into that often gets neglected is the danger of being sucked into a post-ejection fireball in the low altitude environment. This could mean a safe ejection followed by severe burns and/or being burned alive, especially when you consider an ejected pilot may be unconscious immediately following the ejection.


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## Loachman (9 Feb 2015)

He's not visited this Site since 27 Nov 14.


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## krustyrl (9 Feb 2015)

Baden Guy said:
			
		

> I know, and I assume you do also, that there are clubs for those who have been forced to use this product.
> 
> "In 1922 Leslie Irvin agreed to give a gold pin to every person whose life was saved by one of his parachutes. At the end of World War II the number of members with the Irvin pins had grown to over 34,000 though the total of people saved by Irvin parachutes is estimated to be 100,000.
> 
> ...




I am one of several recipients of plaques from Irvin Industries ( now Irvin Airchute , I believe) having packed a parachute in the early -mid 90's that helped save the life of a student at 2 CFFTS .  During my 12 yr posting to 15Wing there were several accidents/incidents. most survived, some not so but that is another whole issue.


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