# The Battle of Arghandab - June 2008



## jollyjacktar (16 Jun 2008)

Did a search did not find this story, Mods please feel free to delete merge as you see fit.  Seems to dovetail nicely into the prison break attack of last week.

Updated Mon. Jun. 16 2008 1:25 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Hundreds of Taliban fighters have taken over several villages in a district just north of Kandahar City, a local official says.

Mohammad Farooq, the government leader in the Arghandab district of Kandahar province, said Monday that about 500 Taliban had moved into what has been considered a relatively peaceful district.

A tribal leader said the militants could easily use the many grape and pomegranate orchards to mount an attack on Kandahar itself, where a brazen attack on a prison last week freed about 400 Taliban fighters.

"All of Arghandab is made of orchards. The militants can easily hide and easily fight," said Haji Ikramullah Khan.

"It's quite close to Kandahar," Khan added. "During the Russian war, the Russians didn't even occupy Arghandab, because when they fought here they suffered big casualties."

Walid Karzai, brother of President Hamid Karzai, told The Canadian Press on Monday that he's also worried the Taliban could mount attacks within Kandahar.

"There are also strong rumours that they will attack Kandahar city at certain strategic points. My house, the governor's house (and) the police station," he said.

"Whenever they get close to Kandahar city, there could be problems. Every one in Kabul is very much concerned," said Karzai, who serves as president of the provincial council.

NATO reaction

NATO spokesperson Mark Laity said NATO and Afghan military officials are sending troops to the district to "meet any potential threats."

Laity seemed to link the jailbreak with the Taliban push into Arghandab.

"It's fair to say that the jailbreak has put a lot of people (rebels) into circulation who weren't there before, and so obviously you're going to respond to that potential threat," he said.

Arghandab used to be the fiefdom of Mullah Naqib, a former Taliban supporter who switched sides in 2001.

The leader of the powerful Alokozai tribe died in October, and there were fears a power vacuum would emerge.

The Taliban did attempt to penetrate the district shortly after Naqib's death, but Canadian and Afghan troops said they pushed them out.

"They will not come back because we know that the Afghan national security forces will hold the ground and secure the Arghandab district for the (betterment) of the local population," Canada's Maj. Eric Landry told reporters in Kandahar on Nov. 1, 2007.

However, new district leader Kareemullah Naqibi, Mullah Naqib's son, had trouble winning the confidence of village elders.

Gen. Dan McNeil, the commander of the International Stabilization and Assistance Force, announced in mid-December 2007 that a forward operating base would be constructed in the district.

The move was seen as a way to shore up support for Naqibi, who is only 25.

Besides Mullah Naqib's death, two other leaders in Arghandab have been killed.

Police commander Abdul Hakim Jan, died in February. He was one of more than 100 people killed by a suicide bombing at a dog fight in Kandahar.

Earlier this month, gunmen shot and killed Malim Akbar Khakrezwal, 55. He was a former mujahedeen leader and a key supporter of Naqibi.

With files from The Associated Press and The Canadian Press


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## Old Sweat (16 Jun 2008)

I hate negative thinking in cases like this. The Taliban found out the hard way they couldn't win conventional battles in 2006 and part of 2007; are they going to have to be taught the same lesson again? Here is a chance to administer a major thrashing to the bad guys.


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## GAP (16 Jun 2008)

Here's another article in the same vein.....

Kandahar City quiet despite threat of Taliban attack
Allied forces mobilizing into the region to 'meet any potential threats'
Doug Schmidt , Canwest News Service Published: Monday, June 16, 2008
Article Link

KANDAHAR CITY, Afghanistan - A nervous quiet descended over Kandahar City on Monday night after hundreds of Taliban fighters moved into an adjacent district and took control of a number of villages, with scores of terrified residents fleeing from their homes.

Canadian and other NATO soldiers have joined Afghan national security forces, including 500 Afghan National Army troops flown in from Kabul, and moved into positions between the insurgents and Afghanistan's second-largest city. The Taliban, who began infiltrating Arghandab District on Sunday night, have vowed to use their position at Kandahar City's doorstep to "march in" and take over the city from where their movement began in 1994.

The bold threat comes just days after a spectacular and daring assault on the city's Sarposa Prison saw the escape of about 800 prisoners, including 400 Islamic militants. Very few of the fugitives, and only one militant, have been recaptured.
More on link


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## PuckChaser (16 Jun 2008)

Guess they didn't learn from October when we sent them packing with their tails between their legs, and a whole whack of casualties.


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## wannabe SF member (16 Jun 2008)

If we manage to break their back on this one, won't it negate any gains they might have acquired from the sarposa prison break? Not to mention the moral blow this could inflict to them.


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## PuckChaser (16 Jun 2008)

My theory is that if they needed to bust a whole whack of fighters out of prison, they are having recruiting problems within the local population, and needed to gain some numbers back.


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## geo (16 Jun 2008)

From a personal perspective, a large body of Taliban - initiating large fullscale operations against ISAF is a GOOD thing.  Each and every time the TB has gone head to head against ISAF, we've served them their head on a platter.

So, by all mans, launch a large fullsacle operation.... PLEASE!


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## Garett (16 Jun 2008)

Are they retarded? Targets up......


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## RHFC_piper (16 Jun 2008)

Reading this makes me wish I could get back over there again and feed it too 'em like we did in '06/07


Go get 'em, troops.

As Garett put it;


			
				Garett said:
			
		

> *Targets up*




 :mg:


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## blacktriangle (16 Jun 2008)

Me thinks those guys were safer in prison.


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## armyvern (17 Jun 2008)

Seems the Taliban has now taken to blowing up some bridges ...

_Reproduced under the Fairdealings provisions of the Copyright Act ..._

Taliban bomb bridges as fear of large-scale attack grows

Last Updated: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 | 5:20 AM ET CBC News 



> Heavily armed Taliban fighters bombed bridges and planted landmines in the villages surrounding Kandahar on Tuesday, as residents fled the area in fear that militants were preparing to launch a full-scale attack on the city, officials and residents said.
> 
> "Last night, people were afraid, and families on tractors, trucks and taxis fled the area," said Sardar Mohammad, a police officer manning a checkpoint on the east side of the Arghandab River.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (17 Jun 2008)

A few highlights from the early morning wires....

Canadian Press:  "Taliban fighters stormed onto the doorstep of Afghanistan's second-largest city Monday, seizing villages, bombing small bridges, and scattering landmines to keep Canadian and international troops at bay.  The head of the Kandahar provincial council and brother of President Hamid Karzai said the rebels claimed control of numerous villages and were rumoured to be planning attacks on a bigger target: Kandahar city.  Canadian soldiers are playing a major role in a multinational push to keep the Taliban from advancing and are accompanied by the Afghan army and U.S. special forces, said Ahmed Wali Karzai.  But their path was blocked by bombed-out culverts and landmines planted by the rebels, he added.  Karzai said the Taliban had nabbed control of more than a half-dozen villages in the lush Arghandab river valley, just next door to Kandahar city, the birthplace of the Taliban....."

CanWest/National Post:  "A nervous quiet descended over Kandahar City last night after hundreds of Taliban fighters moved into an adjacent district and took control of a number of villages, with scores of terrified residents fleeing their homes.  Canadian and other NATO soldiers have joined Afghan national security forces, including 500 Afghan National Army troops flown in from Kabul, and moved into positions between the insurgents and Kandahar City, Afghanistan's second-largest city.  The Taliban, who began infiltrating the Arghandab District on Sunday night, have vowed to use their position at Kandahar City's doorstep to "march in" and take over the city from where their movement began in 1994 ....  Coalition forces and local politicians are confident the amassed insurgents, who have laid mines and blown up bridges surrounding their positions, are no real threat to Kandahar...."

Reuters:  "Scores of families fled their homes in southern Afghanistan on Tuesday as foreign and Afghan forces prepare to drive out Taliban insurgents who have overrun several villages, officials and witnesses said.  About 600 Taliban insurgents took over several villages in Arghandab district in the south on Monday, days after they had freed hundreds of prisoners, including about 400 militants, after an attack on the main jail in Kandahar city.  "There are hundreds of them (Taliban) with sophisticated weapons. They have blown up several bridges and are planting mines everywhere," Mohammad Usman, a taxi driver who evacuated a family on Tuesday from the district, told reporters in Kandahar.  Ahmad Wali Karzai, the head of Kandahar's provincial council and a brother of President Hamid Karzai, said about 600 Taliban had positioned themselves in Arghandab district, which lies 20 km (12 miles) to the north of Kandahar city, one of Afghanistan's largest cities.  He did not know if the militants included the 400 set free in the jailbreak.  The development prompted NATO and Afghan forces to deploy troops to seal off the area to drive the militants from the district, which has an estimated population of 150,000.  NATO troops have dropped leaflets by air warning people to leave the district, fleeing villagers said ...."

Agence France Presse (1):  "NATO helicopters dropped leaflets on two Afghan villages asking residents to leave ahead of an operation to drive out hundreds of Taliban rebels, residents and officials said on Tuesday.  Around 500 Islamist rebels massed in the villages outside Kandahar late Monday following a brazen insurgent attack at the weekend that busted more than 1,000 prisoners out of the southern city's main jail.  "Hundreds of Afghan soldiers have been deployed in the region to clear the insurgents from the area," defence ministry spokesman General Mohammad Zahir Azimi told AFP.  Residents leaving the area said that the NATO-led International Assistance Force (ISAF) had dropped leaflets on the two villages in insurgency-hit Arghandab district warning them to move to safer places.  "Last evening NATO choppers dropped leaflets on our village, asking us to leave the village before they launch an operation," Abdul Mohammad, a resident of Ta-been village told AFP while on his way to Kandahar city.  An AFP reporter visiting the area said that dozens of NATO and Afghan security forces had set up checkposts searching vehicles and people leaving the troubled district.  "We confirm that leaflets were dropped and radio messages were broadcast," ISAF spokesman General Carlos Branco told AFP. He could not say what the papers said ....."

Agence France Presse (2):  "Hundreds of residents fled villages and Taliban militants blew up a bridge near Kandahar on Tuesday as Afghan and NATO troops prepared for a possible offensive, officials said.  Up to 500 Islamist rebels massed in the villages in Arghandab district late Monday following a brazen insurgent attack at the weekend that busted more than 1,000 prisoners out of the main southern city's main jail.  The wave of unrest has piled pressure on President Hamid Karzai, who responded at the weekend by saying that Afghan forces would be justified in attacking militants on the soil of neighbouring Pakistan.  "Hundreds of families have left, we requested them to leave. Around 300 to 400 Taliban are on the move in the district, they are not stationed in one location," defence ministry spokesman General Mohammad Zahir Azimi told AFP.  The Taliban had blown up one bridge "so far" in the district, he said, adding that hundreds of Afghan soldiers had been deployed in Arghandab "to clear the insurgents from the area." ...."

New York Times:  "Hundreds of Taliban fighters have swarmed into a strategically important district just outside Kandahar, the biggest city in southern Afghanistan, apparently in a push for control just days after 400 Taliban members escaped in a spectacular breakout from the Kandahar prison, officials said Monday.  Afghan military reinforcements arrived in Kandahar on Monday and have already deployed in Kandahar Province, said a NATO spokesman, Mark Laity. The soldiers flew from Kabul and more can be expected to follow, he said. NATO forces based in Kandahar Province have also redeployed to be better prepared for any potential threat, he said.  A government spokesman, Parwez Najib, confirmed the news that Taliban fighters had infiltrated parts of the district, Arghandab. “There is not fighting yet,” he said. Afghan and foreign forces are aware of the presence of the Taliban, he added.  It was unclear whether any of the fighters were among the prison escapees ....."

Al Jazeera:  "Afghan and Nato forces are redeploying troops around the southern city of Kandahar in preparation for a possible large-scale battle with the Taliban.  The soldiers have sealed off the Arghandab district just 30km north of Kandahar where the Taliban claims around 500 of its fighters are now in control of 10 villages.  Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Kandahar, said the authorities had imposed a curfew and soldiers were building defensive lines, taking up positions on rooftops and patrolling just about everywhere as they await reinforcements for a counterattack on the areas taken by the Taliban.  Mark Laity, a Nato spokesman, said Nato and Afghan troops were being redeployed to the region to "meet any potential threats".  The Taliban offensive comes just few days after a suicide attack on Kandahar's main jail freed more than 1,000 prisoners.  "It's fair to say that the jailbreak has put a lot of people [fighters] into circulation who were not there before, and so obviously you're going to respond to that potential threat," Laity said.  And with hundreds of its fighters controlling a large area north of Kandahar, the Taliban seems to be sending a message that seven years after being toppled, it is still a major force in Afghanistan ...."


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## OldSolduer (17 Jun 2008)

How can I get there within 48 hours??? Who's with me??? :sniper: :mg: :cam:

WATCH AND SHOOT!

I just hope none of our guys get wounded or worse.....knock on wood.


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## TrexLink (17 Jun 2008)

Releasing the prisoners was not, I suspect, related to a critical shortage of recruits. It was more likely on one hand a masterful PR stroke, telling the world (and especially the Afghans), "Hey, we're still here and still a viable, capable force, capable of going anywhere and doing whatever we want!"  On the other hand, it certainly was a damned good Phase One for a small campaign in the villages. Our ability to respond immediately has been reduced to some extent. NATO forces are no doubt tired and will now need to be redeployed. At another level, Taliban morale must have really improved, and what's the second principle of war? Not only have they achieved a stunning victory but they have created the impression among their troops that if they are captured, somebody will come for them.

This whole thing reminds me of the 1968 Tet offensive. The VC and NVA were actually pretty well shattered in the South by the time it ended. Nevertheless, it was a major coup and played a significant part in their final victory. The American people wound up (not all that correctly) convinced that the enemy was all-powerful and could do whatever it wanted to, while the allies were a bunch of inept fools and the that the war was unwinnable.  That perception was Ho's victory, and it proved critical.

One hopes that there has been a new stock of virgins laid on in heaven, because otherwise there are going to be a lot of disappointed ex-Taliban.  That notwithstanding, it is how NATO achieves its inevitable victory that will prove crucial in the long run.


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## Kilo_302 (17 Jun 2008)

I only hope that the Taliban *haven't* learned their lessons from the past few summers regarding conventional battles.  It's easy to be casual about this, but while its clear that NATO and ANA forces WILL defeat the Taliban in any engagements that might occur in the next few days, it's also clear that many civilians will most likely be killed, and that doesn't help NATO no matter who is responsible.


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## GAP (17 Jun 2008)

TrexLink said:
			
		

> This whole thing reminds me of the 1968 Tet offensive. The VC and NVA were actually pretty well shattered in the South by the time it ended. Nevertheless, it was a major coup and played a significant part in their final victory. The American people wound up (not all that correctly) convinced that the enemy was all-powerful and could do whatever it wanted to, while the allies were a bunch of inept fools and the that the war was unwinnable.  That perception was Ho's victory, and it proved critical.
> 
> One hopes that there has been a new stock of virgins laid on in heaven, because otherwise there are going to be a lot of disappointed ex-Taliban.  That notwithstanding, it is how NATO achieves its inevitable victory that will prove crucial in the long run.



Someone is doing some pretty good strategic thinking here......This does have the hint of the Tet  Offensive, and I have this hunch that this is not the end of it.  If someone can initiate diversionary tactics at this level, there are probably more surprises in Pandora's Box....I just hope NATO troops and commanders don't get complacent and assume everything will work out.

The blowing of bridges, mines, etc kinda tells you someone somewhere has a gameplan.....


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Jun 2008)

I'm sure someone high up on our side has read Sun Tzu


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## TrexLink (17 Jun 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> Someone is doing some pretty good strategic thinking here



Well, to quote Uma Thurman, _"It's mercy, forgiveness and compassion I lack, not rationality."_  Nobody ever accused the Taliban of being stupid.


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> I'm someone high up on our side has read Sun Tzu


I'm not high up, though I am on our side, I have read Sun Tzu.


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## Kaplan (17 Jun 2008)

I honestly think that this will wind up being one of the last stands for the Taliban in the South. I wonder if the Taliban tought blowing up those bridges would win them favour in the district?


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## OldSolduer (17 Jun 2008)

"I honestly think that this will wind up being one of the last stands for the Taliban in the South"

Don't count on it. These movements have a habit of reincarnating every few years.


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Jun 2008)

sorry, edited for sounding stupid.


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## Kaplan (17 Jun 2008)

I can't wait to see how this plays out. I wish I was over there  :threat:


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Jun 2008)

Be careful of what you wish for.


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## BigRudy (17 Jun 2008)

I don't see the logic in this move for the TB, other than a show of force and/or presence around KC. It seems like a potentially high price to pay for what amounts to a morale/PR move. Everytime they try to hold ground, they are utterly destroyed. The only question is at what cost in Canadian and Afghan blood.

To the boys in the 2VP battle group....... get some!


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## Mike Baker (17 Jun 2008)

NATO warns villagers ahead of Taliban showdown



> KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- NATO has warned residents of villages seized by the Taliban in southern Afghanistan to take cover before an operation is launched to recapture the lost ground.
> 
> Aircraft flown by NATO dropped hundreds of leaflets Monday night on several villages near Kandahar that have been seized by the Taliban, officials said, while thousands of extra Afghan troops headed to the region.
> 
> ...



More on link.


Baker


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## The Bread Guy (17 Jun 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> Someone is doing some pretty good strategic thinking here......This does have the hint of the Tet  Offensive, and I have this hunch that this is not the end of it.  If someone can initiate diversionary tactics at this level, there are probably more surprises in Pandora's Box....I just hope NATO troops and commanders don't get complacent and assume everything will work out.



Using your and others' comparison to the Tet Offensive, let's hope those on our side do the full court press on the public communications front - if we're winning, don't be shy about saying so. 

Good luck to all participating.....


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## wannabe SF member (17 Jun 2008)

> "Today the terrorists approached a police post in the area and through an interpreter asked the forces to surrender, but the terrorists encountered a tooth-smashing response by the forces



Lovely ;D

Too bad they didn't give more details.


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## McG (17 Jun 2008)

There is a lot of assuming that the insurgents have not learned since being defeated during MEDUSA.  I think it is far too early to make such an assumption.  There is a very real threat that they have learned, that their intentions are different, and that they will bring a whole new type of fight.


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> There is a lot of assuming that the insurgents have not learned since being defeated during MEDUSA.  I think it is far too early to make such an assumption.  *There is a very real threat that they have learned, that their intentions are different, and that they will bring a whole new type of fight*.


Exactly my thoughts.  I mean, they could want us to think that they are preparing to dig in, for MEDUSA ROUND TWO.  We go in, flatten everything, nothing is there, and they have won a second PR victory in as many weeks.  Or worse.  Or something completely different.

Whatever the case, I sure am root root rooting for the good guys*


*ANSF, ISAF and OEF, of course. ;D


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## recon_hopeful18 (17 Jun 2008)

im with the whole there running lowon fighters idea
i read something today that theyve been brining in arab extremists and and pakistani fighters as well
the taliban have seem to have grown a cuple balls as mentioned earlyer they get raped every time they come up against ISAF
but depending on how many fighters from "out of town" their brining in this might get a bit ugly
but for our poeple overseas, SAVE SOME FOR ME !!!!!!!!
next year and im in  ;D ;D :cdnsalute:
Give 'em hell boys and girls :fifty:


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2008)

recon_hopeful18 said:
			
		

> Give 'em hell boys and girls


Ignoring the rest of your post for its poor spelling and grammar, which is contrary to this site's standards, the CF does not have any boys or girls within its ranks: we are all men or women.

(NB: Please search, find and heed the site guidelines.  Welcome to army *dot* ca)


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## recon_hopeful18 (17 Jun 2008)

hey sorry no offence
i have the utmost respect for the men and women in uniform and overseas, didint mean anything by it


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## wannabe SF member (17 Jun 2008)

you gotta make sure you don't make any spelling mistakes, use spellcheck if necessary or your future interaction with those that dwell on this site will be sour.


cheers


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## TacticalW (17 Jun 2008)

I wish I could be there to help, well still got about a year and perhaps a half to go until that can happen. 

Give them hell


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## Dog Walker (17 Jun 2008)

An Update from CTV:



> Kandahar 'under control': Canadian commander
> Updated Tue. Jun. 17 2008 5:25 PM ET
> 
> CTV.ca News Staff
> ...


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## kilekaldar (18 Jun 2008)

Does it strike anyone that the media was rubbing their hands with glee when the Taliban bombed the prison? We're almost celebratory when the Taliban claimed to control 5 villages and have 600 fighters in the Argendaub? Notice how they just reported this as fact?
The shrill panicked reaction from some reporters, who kept suggestion that the war was DOOMED because of this stank of self interest and the pursuit of a headline. 
Some elements of the Canadian Press seem to have a complicit relationship with the Taliban propaganda machine, they print the propaganda as sensationalist 'news', it creates a negative reaction with the public, the Taliban accomplish their IO objectives, and the Canadian Media sell more ads and more newspapers as a result.
The Canadian Media is after all a big multi-billion dollar business, and something has to feed that ravenous monster.


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Jun 2008)

I think that the 700 plus ANA troops from Kabul may have added substance to their guess work of an impending battle.


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## Kaplan (18 Jun 2008)

I find it odd that the Commander went on record saying they cannot see any signs of insurgent activity*. I would think that the Taliban is laying low so that way the emigrants of the Valley come back and the Taliban could go to work with a civilian population around.

For some reason, I'm picturing a group of bearded men singing and dancing to Broadway musicals whenever they say Insurgent Activity.


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## TrexLink (18 Jun 2008)

Kaplan - You may be right. On the other hand, the locals most likely know if the Taliban was still there, certainly in small villages where everybody knows everybody and where their 'guests' would very soon start levying for food and such.  As well, the locals generally are not fond of the Taliban; most of them do not want to live under their control.


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## vonGarvin (18 Jun 2008)

recce_hopeful18 said:
			
		

> hey sorry no offence
> i have the utmost respect for the men and women in uniform and overseas, didint mean anything by it


Non taken, just trying to help


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## vonGarvin (18 Jun 2008)

kilekaldar said:
			
		

> Does it strike anyone that the media was rubbing their hands with glee when the Taliban bombed the prison? We're almost celebratory when the Taliban claimed to control 5 villages and have 600 fighters in the Argendaub? Notice how they just reported this as fact?
> The shrill panicked reaction from some reporters, who kept suggestion that the war was DOOMED because of this stank of self interest and the pursuit of a headline.
> Some elements of the Canadian Press seem to have a complicit relationship with the Taliban propaganda machine, they print the propaganda as sensationalist 'news', it creates a negative reaction with the public, the Taliban accomplish their IO objectives, and the Canadian Media sell more ads and more newspapers as a result.
> The Canadian Media is after all a big multi-billion dollar business, and something has to feed that ravenous monster.


I agree to a point.  
I watched Professor Amir Attaran on ctv.  He had a shit-eating grin on his face, as he went on a NATO-bashing rant about God knows what.  His favourite sound byte: "mud walls" (with eyes a'rollin!)  The perception is that the mud is like the mud you get when it rains here in Canada: dry, brittle and falls apart.  I think he forgot that we got tanks over there so that we could FINALLY bust through those "mud" walls (which are in fact several feet thick and like cement: stronger than cinder block, that's for sure!).  They also seem to forget that they used a tanker truck, which would level almost any building in Canada were it to go off "just right".

The other point that comes up, and is rather subtle, is the racism that comes out in the press.  It is almost as though they feel that the Taliban, the brown people that they are, are too stupid to pull one over on us, the white people.  "This was an inside job!" screamed the press.  Why would it have to be an inside job?  I think it was just well planned and well executed.  The plan was simple and effective:
Phase 1: drive tanker truck up to prison doors
Phase 2: blow up said truck
Phase 3: everyone runs out of the prison.
Questions?
Taliban may be thugs and murderers, but they are smart and well-lead.  That's what makes them dangerous.


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## Old Sweat (18 Jun 2008)

Today's National Post has a story with a detailed graphic of the area of operations. It is available here: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/06/17/graphic-prelude-to-a-battle.aspx

The source for the information is cited as The Department of Defence [sic]. Presumably there are no opsec issues, as the occupied localities shown are known by both sides.

To change gear, the media appear to have piled on to a story that combined hints of military incompetence and pending doom. I agree with MR above that the mud wall description is misleading, especially considering what was used to breach the wall. I did see a journalist who was touted as "an expert on Afghanistan" on Mike Duffy Live railing about Canadian incompetence because of the length of time it took to get the QRF launched from the PRT and the lack of response from the troops at KAF. Apparently the fact that the battle group was deployed elsewhere did not figure in this expert's analysis.


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## Danjanou (18 Jun 2008)

CTV is now reporting 48 confirmed Taliban KIAs 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080618/afghan_op_080618/20080618?hub=TopStories

Yeah that force the local villagers out and take on NATO and the ANA in a stand up gun fight tactic really seems to working for them. :


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Jun 2008)

I guess they should have stayed in prison


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## grmpz1 (18 Jun 2008)

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080618/world/afghan_cda_operation


By The Associated Press
ADVERTISEMENT

ARGHANDAB, Afghanistan - Afghan and Canadian forces moved into villages in the Arghandab district outside Kandahar on Wednesday to root out Taliban militants, killing at least 36 insurgents, the Afghan Defence Ministry said.

The ministry said more than 20 Taliban fighters were killed in the village of Tabin, while 16 fighters were killed in Khohak. Both communities are in Arghandab, a strategic river valley reported infiltrated by Taliban fighters after a dramatic prison break in Kandahar city last Friday.

Two Afghan government soldiers were killed Wednesday, the ministry said in a statement.

Also, 12 insurgents were killed in Maiwand, another district in Kandahar province, the ministry added.

No Canadian or NATO casualties have been reported.

NATO confirmed there were skirmishes in Arghandab but did not mention the number of insurgents killed.

NATO spokesman Mark Laity said alliance troops have exchanged fire with militants during "a few minor contacts" in the district.

"As of this morning we've expanded operations into Arghandab," Laity said.

"Canadian troops are in support of the ANA (Afghan National Army), and operations are under way."

Canadian officials said the operation was aimed at clearing out pockets of insurgents on the northern bank of the Arghandab River.

"We will disrupt the criminals who are intimidating the people and preventing progress," Canadian officials said. "We will continue to take the firm steps necessary to maintain security and assuage the fears of the local population."

Helicopters and jets patrolled the skies and smoke rose from fields after exchanges of fire, an Associated Press reporter at the scene said.

A helicopter was seen landing in a field near the fighting, and large Canadian military vehicles and Afghan police trucks were moving through the region.

The Afghan Defence Ministry said Tuesday that 300 to 400 militant fighters were operating in Arghandab - a lush region of pomegranate and grape fields 15 kilometres northwest of Kandahar city, the Taliban's spiritual home.

Canadian and NATO officials disputed claims that insurgents had gained control of a number of villages. Alliance officials said Taliban strength in the area had been greatly exaggerated.

Afghan officials and witnesses said, however, that Taliban fighters had overrun several Arghandab villages. Local police said hundreds of farm families have fled, fearing possible coming military operations.

The Taliban have long sought to control Arghandab and the good fighting positions its fruit groves offer. Once established, militants could cross the countryside's flat plains for probing attacks into Kandahar, the second-largest city in Afghanistan.

Haji Agha Lalai, a provincial council member and the head of the province's reconciliation commission, which brings former insurgents who lay down their weapons back into the folds of society, said the militants were destroying bridges and planting mines as defensive measures in hopes they could repel attacks from Afghan and NATO forces.

The Taliban assault on the outskirts of Kandahar was the latest display of strength by the militants despite a record number of U.S. and NATO troops in the country. The push into Arghandab came three days after a co-ordinated Taliban attack on Kandahar's prison that freed 400 insurgent fighters.

The hardline Taliban regime, ousted from power in a 2001 U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan, regarded Kandahar as its main stronghold, and its insurgent supporters are most active in the volatile south of the country.

Elsewhere in Afghanistan, four British soldiers were killed when an explosive was detonated against their vehicle during a patrol in neighbouring Helmand province on Tuesday, the British Ministry of Defence said. At least one soldier was wounded in the blast.

It was one of the deadliest attacks of the year on international troops.

Four U.S. Marines were killed in a roadside bomb in nearby Farah province earlier this month. Prior to that, no more than three international troops had been killed in any one attack in Afghanistan this year.


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## Pte.Butt (18 Jun 2008)

Give'm hell boys!  >

RIP to our fallen allies   and a speedy recovery to the wounded troop!


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## OldSolduer (18 Jun 2008)

Godspeed to all the younger men and women over there. 
I'm not a religous person, but it there is a higher power, may he/she protect our troops.


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## Danjanou (18 Jun 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> I guess they should have stayed in prison



I think many will soon be back there........or maybe not >


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## wannabe SF member (18 Jun 2008)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I think many will soon be back there........or maybe not >



I wouldn't be surprised if last week's prison break prompted an increase in "unfortunate incidents" during capture.


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## vonGarvin (18 Jun 2008)

Here's hoping that our men and women fare well!


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## TN2IC (18 Jun 2008)

I would like to quote an Amercain General...




> "May God have mercy on my enemy, for I will not"
> - Gen. Patton Jr.








Targets up   :evil:


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## Mike Baker (18 Jun 2008)

Give 'em hell, troops!


 :warstory:
Baker


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## MarkOttawa (18 Jun 2008)

A post at _The Torch_:

Arghandab: Did ANA troops "flee"?
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/06/arghandab-did-ana-troops-flee.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## TN2IC (18 Jun 2008)

Quote from _The Torch:_



> Two Afghan battalions participated in the Arghandab attack, but one of them was forced to retreat after coming under heavy fire




Wow.. a battalion retreated after coming under "heavy" fire. The journalist sure does make is sound like the Battle of Stalingrad! 
May be someone needs to brush up on The Art of War.  :


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## Bzzliteyr (18 Jun 2008)

Listen to Lew Mackenzie's interview on that site.. love it.. 

I have said it before and will say it again.  The media do NOT work for us. They work for the companies that employ them to help sell advertising.. if newspapers don't sell, then people don't read the ads in em, if no one watches a news report, no one sees the ads during it.  The media is there to sell advertising.  Why do you think Britney Spears' crotch took front page news over any other story that day?? It will SELL MORE ADS.

/end rant.


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## Dog Walker (18 Jun 2008)

Sgt  Schultz said:
			
		

> Quote from _The Torch:_
> 
> 
> Wow.. a battalion retreated after coming under "heavy" fire. The journalist sure does make is sound like the Battle of Stalingrad!
> May be someone needs to brush up on The Art of War.  :



On Mike Duffy Live there was a report from Alex Panette from Canadian Press which gave more detail of what happened. The Afghan troops tried to make a crossing of the Arghandab River at an exposed location and came under fire from Taliban hiding in the tree line. The Afghan troops had to make a hasty retreat with the aid of smoke drop from helicopters. They were later able to cross the river at a more protected location.


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## The Bread Guy (18 Jun 2008)

Dog Walker said:
			
		

> On Mike Duffy Live there was a report from Alex Panette from Canadian Press which gave more detail of what happened. The Afghan troops tried to make a crossing of the Arghandab River at an exposed location and came under fire from Taliban hiding in the tree line. The Afghan troops had to make a hasty retreat with the aid of smoke drop from helicopters. They were later able to cross the river at a more protected location.



As Paul Harvey says, the REST of the story.....  

Good luck to all participating in the fight


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## Bzzliteyr (18 Jun 2008)

Man I miss that place...


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Jun 2008)

not me, I miss helping my buddies and wish I could be there for them but I don't miss that place


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## Bzzliteyr (18 Jun 2008)

People tend to be surprised when I say that.. I actually had a very rewarding experience.  I went in with a positive outlook, and it continued the whole tour.  Yeah sure they tried to blow me up in Arghandab but I got promoted a couple of days later.. so it balanced out.. hehe


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## RHFC_piper (19 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Man I miss that place...



Me too, actually.   

I never felt more alive than the time I spent there... even when a lot of it was spent under heavy fire (and not just from friends...)

The sweet smell of the cool wind blowing across the river from the Pashmul Valley and up Masum Ghar.  The only cool wind in the whole damn country... at least the parts that I saw the few weeks before.  
That valley is (was) beautiful.  Even when we went for our little jaunt into Pashmul; I remember the sweet smell of the grape fields (and probably the poppies and pot as well); it was enough to make me wish I could have been there without the gear, or the fighting... just to enjoy the surroundings.

Even when the fighting started, as odd as it sounds, I felt alive.  I felt as though I had reached the pinnacle of my trade (INF) and was doing my job well... Fighting and winning (for a while anyway).

Probably the best and worst memories of my life come from that little hunk of land.   I don't know what I would give up to go back, but I would give a lot. 

And even though it sounds bizarre; If I could, I'd want to go back right now... It would feel like finishing what I started. 



			
				Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> People tend to be surprised when I say that.. I actually had a very rewarding experience.  I went in with a positive outlook, and it continued the whole tour.  Yeah sure they tried to blow me up in Arghandab but I got promoted a couple of days later.. so it balanced out.. hehe



I hear ya.  I tried my best to go into it the same way. 

Even though I did get all blowed up, I still have some strong positive memories about that place...  some I've shared, and some I keep just for me.

And I guess I can say that feeling lasted through out my tour as well... though it wasn't quite as long as yours...   
I commend you for keeping up the positive through out the tour.


And as for all the current goings on;  It's been said here (all over the forums) many times; every time the TB have tried a head on with coalition forces (specifically Canada) they've been fed their asses on a silver platter, and throat punched for their trouble.  I have no doubt that this time will be no different.

For all those involved in the operations; Give 'em hell.   
And for those set to go over soon; Don't let up.


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

I've spoken with a close relative and he says the same: when he's under fire, it's exhilarating.


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## MarkOttawa (19 Jun 2008)

More at _The Torch_, by Babbling Brooks firing at the _Globe and Mail_:

They just can't resist reaching for the sensational
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/06/they-just-cant-resist-reaching-for.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## OldSolduer (19 Jun 2008)

I'm hoping on one hand that my close relative is on HLTA, however knowing that person, they would have tried their hardest to stay and get some.

I just wish I was there with 2VP.


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## Fusaki (19 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Man I miss that place...



Same here dude... well I do and I don't...

It sucked being away from the girlfriend and cold beer and by the end of the summer I swore that I'd never step into direct sunlight again, but there's more to it then that.

Life in Kandahar is simple. Wake up, roll up sleeping bag, brush teeth, shoot when told. You shut off emotionally, and the rest is low stress. You get into the swing of things, hang out with buddies, weapons maintenance, watch movies. No bootbands, no shaving, no one to put on a show for. You speak your mind and your CoC knows you well enough that its not just some dumbass Cpl running his mouth. No one bothered me for anything. I took care of my LAV turret, the comms, and it's weapons systems, my driver took care of his AOR, and we both took care of the back. We had our jobs and we were trusted to do it - there were few if any problems. Outside the wire, no one gets on your ass about the silly army things that arn't important anyways.

It was living life one day at a time. Ahhhhh memories....


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## GAP (19 Jun 2008)

You all do realize you are letting out the worst kept secret of combat vets, don't you.....

For me it was 40 years ago, and some things are like they happened yesterday.....now you know the secret of the Legions, etc   ;D


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## 043 (19 Jun 2008)

Dog Walker said:
			
		

> On Mike Duffy Live there was a report from Alex Panette from Canadian Press which gave more detail of what happened. The Afghan troops tried to make a crossing of the Arghandab River at an exposed location and came under fire from Taliban hiding in the tree line. The Afghan troops had to make a hasty retreat with the aid of smoke drop from helicopters. They were later able to cross the river at a more protected location.



That would be a withdrawal.......similar to Op Medusa I believe.


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## GAP (19 Jun 2008)

Australian cameraman wounded in Afghanistan
Patrick Walters, National security editor | June 20, 2008 
Article Link

FORMER SBS cameraman Jamie Kidston has been shot and wounded in Afghanistan's Kandahar province as Afghan and NATO forces continue to battle Taliban insurgents across the country's southern provinces.

Kidston, 36, who now works as a civilian cameraman for NATO, received a single gunshot wound in the forearm while filming with a Canadian military training team in the Arghandab district, just outside Kandahar city. 

An International Security Assistance Force spokesman, Major David Harris, said Kidston's injuries were not life-threatening and he was operated on at the main ISAF hospital at Kandahar airfield yesterday. 

"His condition is stable. He may require repatriation to Australia for further treatment," Major Harris told The Australian last night. 

The incident was the second occasion this year in which Australian journalists have been wounded in Afghanistan. 

In April, Stephen Dupont, 41, a freelance photographer, and journalist Paul Raffaele were lucky to survive a suicide bomber attack in a village in the eastern province of Nangarhar. The blast killed 15 people. 

Raffaele received shrapnel wounds to the arm, shoulder and head and Dupont escaped with minor cuts. 

Five Australian soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, including four since October. 

In recent days, there has been renewed fighting around Kandahar following a mass jail breakout last week in the city that allowed several hundred Taliban prisoners to escape from Sarposa prison. 

Afghan and Canadian-led NATO forces have battled insurgents holed up in fruit groves surrounding villages in the Arghandab district 15km north of Kandahar. The onset of summer has seen a surge in contact with insurgents in recent weeks across southern Afghanistan. 

In Helmand province, nine British soldiers have died in the past 10 days, bringing the total number of British military dead to 106 since late 2001. 
More on link


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jun 2008)

And here's what the place looks like when CAN troops aren't kicking  Timmy Taliban's butt - .pdf of article also attached in case it disappears from the web page during the latest fracas.  I'm guessing it's a bit more "adventurous" than it was when these pictures were taken....  

*Living an adventurous life on ´Haji Beach´*
MCPL Travis Good (6 Pl, B Coy, 2 PPCLI), CF Army News, Project Number:08-0376, 19 Jun 08
Article link

The Muslim call-to-prayer broadcasts over loud speakers from the local mosque, mixing with the crowing of unseen roosters. Soldiers wipe the sleep from their eyes as the sun peeks its head over the distant mountain range. One thinks to oneself: ‘This wouldn’t be such a bad place if bad guys weren’t lurking around every corner’.

Waking up to the smell of bacon tricks the tired mind into thinking you are at home. Then the smell of marijuana fields and soldiers’ sweat reminds you that you are in Afghanistan. The banks of the Arghandab River are less than 200 meters away. The fast-flowing cool water appeals to the sorest parts of the body. The stifling heat begs you to jump in; the landmines, explosives and fear of Taliban ambush tells you not to.

This is Haji Beach, named after three nearby villages, Haji Soltanmohammad Khan, Haji Atamohammad Khan and Haji Mohammad Yusof ....

_More on link_


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## Bzzliteyr (19 Jun 2008)

I can post some probably safe pictures if anybody wants.. I am not sure about posting the ones that are of the big hole left over from when they tried to make me go "BOOM!" but I can post some generic scenery ones.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jun 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I can post some probably safe pictures if anybody wants.. I am not sure about posting the ones that are of the big hole left over from when they tried to make me go "BOOM!" but I can post some generic scenery ones.



As much as we'd all like to see photos, we'll understand if you're too "crazy busy" keeping you and your team safe, given the situation.

Take care - we're all behind you here!


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## Scoobie Newbie (19 Jun 2008)

Not sure about you but we (A Coy) signed something to the effect that we would not post pic's or vid's without first having the CoC look at the material first.


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## Bzzliteyr (19 Jun 2008)

No no, I am back now.. from the tour.  My pictures are pictures that have passed through the PAFO's hands (overseas) that date from spring of this year.  I can verify OPSEC and that stuff with the gang where I am currently employed then see about posting once I can.


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## geo (19 Jun 2008)

Go ahead then Bzzz


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## jollyjacktar (19 Jun 2008)

'No doubt' defeated Taliban will be back: general
Updated Thu. Jun. 19 2008 5:51 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080619/afghan_update_080619/20080619?hub=TopStories


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## Bzzliteyr (19 Jun 2008)

Once I hit home this weekend I'll pull them off my hard drive..


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## The Bread Guy (20 Jun 2008)

Seems the Taliban is breaking int'l law - wonder when the anti-war protesters will get on THEIR case?   :

*Afghanistan: ICBL concerned by Taliban mine use allegations*
Int'l Campaign to Ban Landmines news release, 19 Jun 08
News release link

Major news media reports have repeated the allegation that the Taliban have recently laid mines in Arghandab District of Kandahar Province. The news reports do not specify if these are antipersonnel mines.

"The reports of antipersonnel mine use by the Taliban received over the past 18 months are very worrying as – if confirmed – they would signal a shift from the Taliban’s publicly declared policy of endorsing the mine ban," said Yeshua Moser-Puangsuwan of the ICBL's Landmine Monitor. "The ICBL calls upon the Taliban to publicly reconfirm and honour the commitment it made in 1998 to non-use of antipersonnel mines," he continued.

The former Taliban-controlled Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (IEA) was prohibited by its unrecognized status from signing the Mine Ban Treaty, but indicated its willingness to do so. In 1998 the IEA made a public commitment to a total ban on the production, trade, stockpiling, and use of landmines, and further stated that "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan would never make use of any type of landmines" and that "those who use landmines in personal, political or any other differences in Afghanistan would be punished in accordance with the Islamic law."

However, since 2007, as the level of Taliban military activity increased, new antipersonnel mines use has been alleged.

In June 2007, three Canadian soldiers were killed in Panjwaii district, KandaharProvince when two antivehicle mines were detonated by an attached antipersonnel mine. The mines were newly laid on a road frequented by the troops between two checkpoints 600 meters apart. In May 2007 five children were killed by a mine the police claimed was freshly laid by the Taliban.

In July and August 2007, Helmand Provincial officials and residents alleged that Taliban insurgents had laid antipersonnel mines in several districts. Qari Yusuf, an alleged spokesman for the Taliban, reportedly confirmed the planting of new mines against the Afghan army and international forces. Also in July 2007 , a former Hezb-i-Islami commander fighting alongside the Taliban, and 38 of his soldiers, surrendered and turned over unspecified mines and other arms to the Disarmament of Irresponsible Armed Groups (DIAG) programme in KapisaProvince. Coalition forces claim to have apprehended militants possessing an antipersonnel mine in Khost in May 2007.

The majority of explosive attacks in Afghanistan do not involve victim-activated antipersonnel mines, but rather improvised explosive devices (IEDs) or antivehicle mines which are remotely-detonated in roadside attacks. These attacks are frequently attributed to “landmines” by journalists.

_**Read about the landmine situation in Afghanistan in the Landmine Monitor Report http://www.icbl.org/lm/2007/afghanistan _


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## jollyjacktar (20 Jun 2008)

Forces wrapping up operations in Arghandab district
Updated Fri. Jun. 20 2008 9:30 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

NATO and Afghan troops held mopping-up operations on Friday, after launching a ground-and-air offensive that drove out hundreds of insurgents camped out in a valley within striking distance of Kandahar city.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080620/afghan_operation_080620/20080620?hub=TopStories


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## PuckChaser (20 Jun 2008)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Seems the Taliban is breaking int'l law - wonder when the anti-war protesters will get on THEIR case?   :
> 
> *Afghanistan: ICBL concerned by Taliban mine use allegations*
> Int'l Campaign to Ban Landmines news release, 19 Jun 08
> News release link



Is there a difference between pressure-plate IEDs, suicide bombers, and anti-pers landmines? I really don't think so, they all kill indiscriminately, and most of the time kids get caught in the crossfire. ICBL needs to get their heads out of the proverbial sand here.


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## George Wallace (20 Jun 2008)

Seems to me that there have been a rather large number of casualties and fatalities in Afghanistan due to the use of Anti-personal Mines and Booby-traps by the Taliban.  Not everything reported has been vehicle related.  In fact there have been a large number of casualties on foot patrols.


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## darmil (21 Jun 2008)

Hey I have a few shots of whats left of the prison.Is it all right to post them?


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## Bzzliteyr (21 Jun 2008)

MikeH, if they are recent pics that have been approved for release, then by all means I can't see there being a problem (me not being a mod can't really make the call)

No OPSEC violations (for example, the media reports that there are two holes in the walls and there are really ten)would be helpful.  Sometimes little things we don't think of,  have potential to show stuff, so scrutinize your pictures well before posting.  And we all know guys that have returned from over there that have plastered a ton of pictures on their facebook pages without thinking of the following bunch of guys that might be compromized by them.


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