# Lost US weapons found in Turkish/Irq border town....



## RecDiver (26 Oct 2007)

http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=7037&p=1&rid=2http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=7037&p=1&rid=2

Quick translation of the story....

Based on tips, security forces stopped a truck at the border crossing from Northern Iraq into Turkey. They found these weapons which were used by the Polish troops in Iraq. Apparently they were given to US forces when Polish left the area.

It seems they were destined to be given to PKK terrorists already in Turkey to be used in their ongoing terror campain.

In earlier 2 operations, Turkish security forces found 16 AK47, 10 Para- PM 98 and 79 various handguns (including 39 Glock).


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## 1feral1 (26 Oct 2007)

PM series of SMG's. Interesting. The only weapons I observed carried by Polish troops was their latest 5.56 x 45mm version of the Polish made AK family of weapons. The Polish have not used AK-47's for many many years. I met and spoke to these guys while at a US/Kuwaiti facility in Kuwait in Mar 07.

Is there any evidence of these were actually Polish military weapons, or are they just Polish manufactured, obtained from other independant sources (AKA the 'Lord of War' type people)?

I can't see any professional military force leaving gats behind for any reason.

Perhaps maybe a bit of Turkish propaganda?


Cheers,

Wes


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## Greymatters (26 Oct 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Perhaps maybe a bit of Turkish propaganda?  Wes



Good call.  Wouldnt be the first time they told an imaginative story when they had no clue what was going on...


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## Big Red (26 Oct 2007)

In 05 I went shooting with some Iraqi police generals BGs that had these weapons. They had been trained by the Poles and the Poles were based in the same city. I didn't ask who supplied them with the weapons but it's certainly possible that they did get them from the Polish military.  Either that or they were donated by the US government and bought from Poland. In any case they were definately post invasion weapons that were issued to an Iraqi police unit.


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## RecDiver (26 Oct 2007)

Wes, I understand where your cynicism might be coming from. However, I suggest to maintain an open mind in this situation and attempt to see all possibilities and angles before you rush to assumptions, suggestions and post opinions.

As you may or not may know, that particular area is very complicated from a political stand point and the various games being played there. 

Have you noticed the contortions CNN is going thru not to call the PKK as a terrorist group but still call them as rebels? They were up in arms when 1 Israeli soldier was kidnapped and now totally silent when 8 Turkish soldiers facing the same?


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## Cdn Blackshirt (27 Oct 2007)

RecDiver said:
			
		

> Wes, I understand where your cynicism might be coming from. However, I suggest to maintain an open mind in this situation and attempt to see all possibilities and angles before you rush to assumptions, suggestions and post opinions.
> 
> As you may or not may know, that particular area is very complicated from a political stand point and the various games being played there.
> 
> Have you noticed the contortions CNN is going thru not to call the PKK as a terrorist group but still call them as rebels? They were up in arms when 1 Israeli soldier was kidnapped and now totally silent when 8 Turkish soldiers facing the same?



No offence RecDiver, but I think Wes was keeping an open mind by positing an alternative scenario for our considerating that it is a complicated political environment.  The Turks have some very real reasons to distibrute their own propaganda as in the grand scheme anything that in the long run could justify an annexation of Northern Iraq (and its oil resources) is going to be part of their strategical maneuvring.


Matthew.


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## KevinB (27 Oct 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> The Turks have some very real reasons to distibrute their own propaganda as in the grand scheme anything that in the long run could justify an annexation of Northern Iraq (and its oil resources) is going to be part of their strategical maneuvring.



+1

However the PKK are also trying to stir the pot to force an independant Kurdistan.

Also dont underestimate the power of AlQ-I to attempt to destabilize the region.


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## Cdn Blackshirt (27 Oct 2007)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> +1
> 
> However the PKK are also trying to stir the pot to force an independant Kurdistan.
> 
> Also dont underestimate the power of AlQ-I to attempt to destabilize the region.



I don't underestimate the PKK and Kurdish influence in the least.  In fact I am far more disappointed with the Kurdish parties for having done nothing to reign in the PKK for its aggressive acts, than I am in the Turks for responding in what I see as a fairly rational way.

Re:  AlQ-I - There was an assessment by Walid Phares in the Counterterrorism Blog the other day about Iranian and Syrian manipulation of PKK cells on Turkish soil being fed faulty intelligence in order to get them to overestimate their power position and do something stupid - mission accomplished ....here's the link if anyone is interested: http://counterterrorismblog.org/2007/10/are_syria_and_iran_manipulatin.php


Matthew.   

P.S.  Off-topic - but did you read the breakdown of Palestinian Militants using Google Earth to plan rocket attacks?  That's sets a frightening trend doesn't it?


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## Greymatters (27 Oct 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> P.S.  Off-topic - but did you read the breakdown of Palestinian Militants using Google Earth to plan rocket attacks?  That's sets a frightening trend doesn't it?



I doubt if they were the first or the last to do so.  Any violent organization is going to use 'free' accessible technology to its benefit.


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## 1feral1 (27 Oct 2007)

RecDiver said:
			
		

> Wes, I understand where your cynicism might be coming from. However, I suggest to maintain an open mind in this situation and attempt to see all possibilities and angles before you rush to assumptions, suggestions and post opinions.
> 
> As you may or not may know, that particular area is very complicated from a political stand point and the various games being played there.
> 
> Have you noticed the contortions CNN is going thru not to call the PKK as a terrorist group but still call them as rebels? They were up in arms when 1 Israeli soldier was kidnapped and now totally silent when 8 Turkish soldiers facing the same?



?

I was raising on honest and sound assumption based on my experience in the region. I will continue to make my opinions as required, and not be lectured by you. I am not an idiot Mr N/Cdt. If you had any real INT experience, you'd accept my comment, as it is reasonalbly valid, and any person would normally downplay a propaganda statment from a Turkish local rag (paper). I base the whole article simply as a distant 'maybe', not gospel, as you seem to do. What I do understand and believe,is a quantiy of Polish manufactured PM series of SMG's were recovered.

Without being too rude, don't TELL or LECTURE about what I post, or about Iraq! I was there. Although I am far from some middle east expert, I know how things are done there, and they way things happen, inshalla   

Elements of the Australian Army had been in the Mosul area during my tour, and before, although the majority of my tour was in the Baghdad region. 

What do you know about the region, shy of CNN and AJ broadcasts? If you don't think there is some serious propaganda war ongoing by all sides, your blind to the real facts. we all know the first casualty of war is the truth.

BTW, I do have an open mind. My post and opinions are based on my life experience.

Big Red has a very valid point also about these weapons, and is there in country NOW. Oh, met him too when I was 'over there'. Top bloke!

You are comparing the death of one Israeli soldier to being more signifcant to 8 Turks?. I noticed in another post, you seem to compare this PKK mob to be worse than AQ? 

Didn't see these guys attack and murder over 3000 people in the USA, or wage a cowardly war of gutless murder against the west lets say, since Sep 2001.

Is there some hidden pro-Turkish agenda you carry, or what? Do tell, don't be shy.

Regards,

Wes

EDITed for clarification and ya, spelling


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