# So what if you had  to wait 30 mins at the MIR?



## Armymedic (21 Jun 2005)

For those who think that those 30 min waits to see the medics or those 3 month waits for CF specialist appts are too long...

http://server09.densan.ca/scripts/showfile.asp?URL=/Archivenews/050621/cit/050621a1.htm

PUBLICATION:  The Ottawa Citizen 
DATE:  2005.06.21 
EDITION:  Final 
SECTION:  News 
PAGE:  A1 / Front 
BYLINE:  Glen McGregor 
SOURCE:  The Ottawa Citizen; with files from The Canadian Press 
NOTE: Wait Times: Compare online, page A3 

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Military paid $1.3M for private MRI tests last year: Tax dollars used to allow soldiers to skip long wait lists in public system

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While patients covered by provincial health plans face long waits for MRI exams, the Department of National Defence spent $1.3 million last year to send military personnel to private clinics for the high-tech scans and other diagnostic tests, newly released documents show. 

The Canadian Forces can legally use private clinics, where wait times for MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) tests are measured in hours and not weeks, because it operates its own health system outside of the Canada Health Act. 

But the optics of military personnel using tax dollars to march past the queue for MRIs are potentially embarrassing for the federal government as it defends a public system so hampered by waiting times that it drew censure from the Supreme Court this month. 

Before private MRI clinics started popping up across the country, Forces members were sent to facilities operated within the public system for scans, but the need to have troops cleared for overseas duty has the military seeking faster service. 

The military plans to buy its own MRI machines, but has been contracting out to private clinics when required for "operational readiness," says Col. Jean Grondin, director of health services delivery. "If we have an urgent need, to make sure this person is ready to deploy, we'll seek the services from the civilian services." 

The Forces continues to use MRI scans from public system providers for less urgent cases, Col. Grondin said, but he didn't know how many MRIs are performed or how long the patients must wait to get them. About 85,000 regular and reservist members are covered by the Canadian Forces health plan. 

One private clinic used by the Canadian Forces offers MRI exams starting at $725. Ottawa Valley MRI, located in Gatineau, promises scans within 24 to 48 hours and allows paying clients to take away the results on CD-ROM. The company was paid $278,440 by DND last year, according to DND records. 

Conservative MP Rob Merrifield says the military's use of private MRI clinics shows that it can't afford to wait for the public system when it needs a test quickly -- just as many Canadians have found. 

"We've got a public system that is just not doing the job for Canadians," said Mr. Merrifield, the vice-chairman of the House of Commons health committee. "We know that if there are third-party payers, they seem to get priority billing. We've got a system that is stretched to max. People get tired of waiting." 

But yesterday, while fielding calls on a Vancouver radio talk show, Prime Minister Paul Martin insisted access to health care should be based on need rather than ability to pay, and claimed that the federal government's reinvestment in health care has already reduced waiting lists. 

"I don't believe in a two-tier medicare system," Mr. Martin told the CKNW audience. "The way you avoid all of the problems of a two-tier system, which we see in the United States, for example, every single day, is to make sure your public health care system is very, very strong." 

Michael McBane, head of the Canadian Health Coalition, says that the military should develop its own in-house capacity for MRIs rather than turn to private providers, even if the Forces are not covered by the Canada Health Act. 

"The government should be using the public system and leading by example," he said. "The public capacity should be there to serve government employees." 

He said there is no evidence that for-profit clinics of the kind hired by DND can provide MRIs or other tests cheaper than the public system. "They're extremely expensive and inefficient," he said. 

Documents tabled in the House of Commons last week show DND spent $1,320,593 at 51 clinics that identified themselves as private. The majority were located in Quebec. The previous fiscal year, the department spent even more at private clinics, with $1.6 million paid out to MRI companies and diagnostics labs. 

Canadian Diagnostic Centres Ltd. in Halifax was the top biller, receiving $334,905 in DND money last year, and $399,295 in 2003-04. Previously, the military in Nova Scotia had purchased its MRIs from a public hospital in Halifax. 

In his 2002 report on the state of Canada's health system, Roy Romanow warned of the growth of private diagnostic clinics that operate in a legal grey zone and threaten the universality of the public system. 

But private diagnostic clinics have continued to thrive, chiefly in Quebec, and the federal government has largely resisted calls to act against them. 

Earlier this year, DND was denounced by a health lobby group for contracting out medical care to private suppliers. Because of a shortage of doctors and other medical professionals in the Forces, DND uses a private supplier, Calian Technologies, to staff Canadian Forces bases and clinics. 

The RCMP and workers' compensation programs also operate outside the Canada Health Act and can contract out for private services, including diagnostic testing. Figures on their MRI spending were not available.


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## 2 Cdo (21 Jun 2005)

A 30 minute wait in the UMS would be a holiday, unlike some place where the norm is an hour or more! In reference to military members jumping the line for MRI's and the like, in Ontario as a service member I HAVE to pay Dalton's little tax grab, the Ontario Health premium. For that I am not allowed to have an Ontario health card, and my family after 3 1/2 years still does not have a family doctor! If I jump to the front of the line for an MRI due to the fact that I am a soldier employed in the defence of Canada, excellent. 

Troops who whine about medical care in the forces really have no grounds for their complaints. You have the right to request for additional tests or specialist treatment if you are not satisfied with the care and attention that you are currently receiving. Remember troops, it is your health and your responsibility to maintain your health, ask questions of your medics, be specific when describing pain or injuries and when in doubt fill out a CF 98!

Have a nice day!


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## Armymedic (22 Jun 2005)

http://server09.densan.ca/scripts/showfile.asp?URL=/Archivenews/050622/NPT/050622c7.htm

Why the Forces opt for private MRIs

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Re: Forces Spend $1.3M On Private MRIs, June 21. 

Glen McGregor writes about the "optics" of military personnel using tax dollars to march past the queue for MRIs as potentially damaging to the federal government. If Mr. McGregor were in the same position as the Forces in that he had to pay for an MRI no matter whether the public or private system was used, would he honestly decide to queue up to the public system? Would anyone? 

Operational requirements aside, consider that: the Canadian Forces must pay for any medical service it obtains from outside its own health plan, be it public or private; in many cases the service is cheaper from private clinics than from provincially controlled public ones; the lack of queues in the private sector make the decision to use the private side much more pragmatic and less costly to the taxpayer. 

Would Mr. McGregor, or anyone, advocate the Forces using a slower, more costly service just for the sake of "optics"? 

Lieutenant-Colonel (ret) 
James Hennessy, Calgary.


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## Armymedic (23 Jun 2005)

Now its hitting the fan, or at least the stench is spreading.

I particularly enjoyed that in the CTV nightly news previews the said that "convicts and soldiers get private health care"....Thanks for considering me a contributing member of society, you jerks!!!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119486999024_55/?hub=TopStories

Military, RCMP get private health care
CTV.ca News Staff

Canadian soldiers will soon receive treatment from private doctors, thanks to a deal the Department of National Defence (DND) has struck with Calian Technologies Ltd.

Over the next five years the government will pay more than $400 million to Calian in exchange for various skilled professionals, like laboratory technicians. They will also get doctors to fill in for the army's medical staff as needed.

Michael McBane of the Canadian Health Coalition finds the government's actions hypocritical.

"They're the guardian of public health care in Canada, and yet when it comes to delivering service in their own jurisdiction they're privatizing," he told CTV's David Akin.

The RCMP is spending $250 million on health-care, with some of that money going to private clinics. Corrections Canada also spends some of its budget on private health care.

This makes the government the largest purchaser of private health care services in the country.

Defence Minister Bill Graham defended his department's spending, arguing Canada's health services are insufficient for the military.

"For a long time we had our own health services which covered everything," he told Akin. "Now we are unable to do that and we find it more efficient to go outside."

Akin reports that soldiers can receive MRIs within days, while other Canadians must often wait for months.

Conservative Health Critic Steven Fletcher wants a national debate on fixing health care, and argues the Liberals "mislead the public" by vocally opposing privatization.

"They use myths, and they use fear and deceit, to prop up their point," he said. "And it's time Canadians say, 'Enough is enough.'"

According to Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh, Canada has always allowed certain groups to have private health care to alleviate stress on the provinces.

"You know, right from the inception of public health care in Canada there have been exemptions for the Canadian Forces, Workers' Compensation Board, the RCMP," he said.

Dosanjh sees no reason for this to stop.

"There was a decision made on a rational basis at that time. I don't believe anything has changed in terms of the rationale for that."

Canada's health care has come under increasing scrutiny since the Supreme Court said bans on private care violated the Quebec Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Critics argue that if the government is unable to care for patients, those patients have a right to seek care through other means.

The government's contract with Calian could be extended to 10 years, possibly earning Calian an additional $480 million.

With a report from CTV's David Akin



too bad they don't mention a few important points...

1. we can't access the public health care system because we are not entitled health cards, despite the fact we still pay for it (esp in Ontario),
2. That due to cost cutting in DND, we can not provide health care to our soldiers without "contracting" it out, particularly in areas like diagnostic imagery (like MRI's) and specialist services,
3. If the military hired all the doctors and other medical professionals it needed to acquire and to ensure we had all the required services "on the shelf", the shortages cause by the military would burden the public system to the point of destruction,
4. Med Emerg had the first 5 yr contract for the provision of civilian CF medical workers, which expired the past yr,
5. We get paid by the taxpayer whether we are injured or not, so would they rather have us broken, or back to duty as fast as possible....


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## Gunner98 (23 Jun 2005)

Let's not forget that CF Reg Force members are considered uninsured Canadians and can be charged any rate by a service provider.  Many clinics refuse (due to billing issues) to take us as patients and give insured Canadians the priority.  Others leaqrn of the "no-ceiling rates" and see us as a cash grab.

Initiatives such as Blue Cross and Calian have attempted to ensure services and providers at reasonable rates to us uninsured.  The CFHS pays approx. $130 for a uniformed member when necessary to register at a ER at hospital, that is prior to any diagnostic tests or even seeing a physician.  Ambulance charges are ridiculous as well.

At major hospitals, CFHS can be charged as much as $1900+ per member's bed/day - that would find the taxpayer a pretty nice resort hotel room with room service and masseuse.


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## medicineman (30 Jun 2005)

Troops who whine about medical care in the forces really have no grounds for their complaints. 
[/quote]

Kind of reminds me of an off hand compliment I got from a guy in my platoon after we had to treat him for a grenade accident in California.  After stabilization at the UMS, we transfered him and a few other fellows to the care of the US Navy Hospital on base.  During the night, he asked for some analgesia (he was kinda sorta full of metal) and when he didn't get any, he buzzed again.  The nurse came back and was a little startled to find out that he wasn't the person she gave the morphine to...  His exact words - "I'll never ever complain about how I get treated in the Canadian Army again."

Pity alot of other folks really don't realize how good they have it.

MM


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