# Expansion of Army reserves put on hold



## bossi (22 May 2004)

Haven‘t heard from the chain of comd yet, but ... this sounds discouraging.
From today‘s National Post:
link to Chris Wattie article in full 



> The federal Liberals have put a planned expansion of Canada‘s long-neglected army reserves on hold until after the upcoming election, a move critics are calling a betrayal of their promises to rebuild the country‘s military.
> 
> David Price, the parliamentary secretary to the Defence Minister with responsibility for the military reserves, told the National Post that about $30-million in funding for more part-time soldiers has been frozen.
> 
> ...


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (22 May 2004)

Another Liberal promise. Nuff said


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## ArmyBrat (22 May 2004)

I think, if it goes thru as planned, formally reviewing and refining our defense policy is a good idea, before they go ahead on any major projects.

The big stuff is still going through - JSS Project,  MHP,  Stryker (Ugh) - so on, so on - but reviewing what capabilities we use, and what capabilities we want to have before making any huge investments is probably a wise idea, no?


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## wongskc (22 May 2004)

I can understand not wanting to fund new projects and that before a defence review, but why not temporarily allocate enough money to cover all the short falls that exist in the CF from current projects/operations?  Doesn‘t the CF run a few hundred million in the red every year due to lack of funding?


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## 48Highlander (22 May 2004)

Yes, formaly reviewing what capabilities we have and want before investing more money is a good idea.  However, the $30 million being frozen was intended to expand the reserves, meaning it would have gone into hiring more recruits and paying for their basic equipment.  No matter what capabilities we want we ARE going to need more manpower, so putting a hold on that money isn‘t the same as witholding funding for the purchase of Strykers while we figure out if we‘re really going to need them.  It could have a very negative immediate effect because it might result in some recruits who have already gone through testing not being slotted on a course.  I know we‘ve been encouraged to intensify our recruiting efforts....so if we get the people signed up and ready to go, and then have to hold them back because the money suddenly isn‘t there any more...well, that‘s not a good situation for anyone involved.


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## Old Cent Hand (22 May 2004)

We need more Reservists ! I am a Reg , and I have worked with a great many Reservists , I have alot of time for these people. As for the Stryker, the " Quasi Tank", it‘s a waste of money , a US Senator wrote a very critical assessment of the Stryker , the Americans , as far as I know are not buying it.But no doubt some general in Ottawa , has his finger in the "corporate pie",we buy it , and this general , can retire and get a $100,000, a year job with the manufacturer.


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## logau (22 May 2004)

Not to worry - my spies say they will be pouring more cash in soon enough.


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## Gunner (22 May 2004)

> We need more Reservists ! I am a Reg , and I have worked with a great many Reservists , I have alot of time for these people.


Old Cent Hand, this is the best comment I have heard you make since you joined the site.  I think I might like you after all.


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## yot (24 May 2004)

upset to hear this news


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## Gryphon (24 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Old Cent‘ Hand:
> [qb] We need more Reservists ! I am a Reg , and I have worked with a great many Reservists , I have alot of time for these people. [/qb]


As a reservist, i feel honoured by that.. i‘ve actually heard that quite a bit from other reg force guys..

but reserves need more money. On the comms side: the comm reserve is there to help support the reg force.. now the reg force is at OP CAP 3 or 4, while the reserves are still generally at OP CAP 1.. how can we possibly even HOPE to help them?


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## Slim (24 May 2004)

> Originally posted by logau:
> [qb] Not to worry - my spies say they will be pouring more cash in soon enough. [/qb]


Oddly enough, "money", "pouring" and "military" are not often words that the Canadian Government strings together...

Just my thoughts.

Slim


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## McG (25 May 2004)

Does this freeze affect the growth scheduled for this fiscal year or is it the phase that was to begin in the 05/06 fiscal year?  I cannot tell from the article.


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## NMPeters (25 May 2004)

Well, both actually. But we‘re fighting the freeze for this fiscal year. It actually started earlier with the Government putting on a hiring freeze for all Federal Departments a couple of months ago. I honestly cannot tell you yet if we‘re able to recruit for this fiscal year. Right now, it‘s been frozen. I‘ll let you all know the minute I find out.

By the way, the article is quite accurate.


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## trench_fever@hotmail.com (25 May 2004)

I am in the middle of siging up for my first two courses over this summer to be a reservist, do you think I will still be able to go? All my paperwork and tests - medical, aptitude, physical and my interview are done, I‘m just waiting for my kit and uniform. If anyone has any input, I‘d like to hear it.

-Pete


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## logau (25 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Slim:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


Well my thoughts are

They pour money down various rat holes all year long and why should they stop now?      This is a Puzzle Palace Caramilk Mystery


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## McG (26 May 2004)

By "they" do you mean "them?"   :warstory:


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## NMPeters (26 May 2004)

Who are "they" pouring in the money and that‘s certainly news to those of us working at Land Force Reserve Restructure. Let‘s not spread rumours here.


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## logau (27 May 2004)

> Originally posted by NMPeters:
> [qb] Who are "they" pouring in the money and that‘s certainly news to those of us working at Land Force Reserve Restructure. Let‘s not spread rumours here. [/qb]


Well I say  - Lets spread the truth. DND freeloads off the reserves and thats not a rumour. You know as well as I do DND turns back an amazing amount of $$$ each and every year toi the tune to $25 to $35 million $. Not much compared to the total reserve budget but enough to make good many shortfalls.

As for reserves in Canada - and I am one - until the Government - Not DND or the 3 services - takes a view that more is required and will be delivered rather than slip dates like crazy - then Reserves 2000 or some other psuedo Toronto based political sausage machine will continue to lolly gag us to the end of time.

Take for example pay - why are Canadian Reserves not paid 100% of the reg rates based on time in just like USA and UK reserves........... thats the benchmark. Thats 1:1. And don‘t give us the routine of reserves get so many other non-tangible things.

Bring back some answers - and you know where they start - rather than given us the routine of treating the members here like kids who stepped in dog turds.


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## y2kroachman (27 May 2004)

well put, thats all i gotta say


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## logau (28 May 2004)

I am an NMP friendly person - really


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## NMPeters (31 May 2004)

I was referring to your comment that "they will be pouring more cash in soon enough". I too am a reservist and agree with the points you made in your last post, but that has nothing to do with your quote of pouring more cash in soon enough. I would love it, but haven't seen anything in this office that indicates that it will happen at any time soon. In fact, the line that is now being repeated is that we now have to wait until the defence review has been completed. How hard do you think the politicians are working on a defence review during the election campaign? And then there's the summer break, and who knows who gets elected back in and if the Liberals do get back into power if the same MPs will have the same portfolios. There are far too many variables at this time to say that money is going to be pouring in.


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## 12alfa (11 Jun 2004)

y2k said:
			
		

> well put, thats all i gotta say



Stop with the negetive waves, get with the party line, you will go further.

The reserv's will not come out of the mess we are in, but another defence review  would help ..............NOT :boring:


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## Noyon (15 Jun 2004)

Another reason not to re-elect the Liberals on June 28th, vote conservative and we'll see alot of changes with Canada's military.


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## Northern Touch (16 Jun 2004)

Hey I got to this a little late, but I can see both points of view.

That money SHOULD be put into the reserves if it was allocated there.  As a soon to be reservist myself, it sucks the big one to hear nothing but "were freezing money, were taking it away".  It's even worse when they say "here" then take it away at a later date such as the Librals are doing.

However, I do think it is a good idea for the Defence and Foreign Policy review.  Don't you think it's better to have a set plan on paper, somethign to follow and something to work from  instead of just throwing money into old out dated defence policies?


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## 12alfa (18 Jun 2004)

Northern Touch said:
			
		

> H Don't you think it's better to have a set plan on paper, somethign to follow and something to work from   instead of just throwing money into old out dated defence policies?



If every defence policie we have had, were money for the reservs ,we could blow 1 million on our own sponshership program.


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## Bill Smy (20 Jun 2004)

During my OCTP training in the late 1950's I was taught that a reserve force was necessary to provide depth to the standing army. In order to mobilize a credible force, the reserve had to be between three and four times the size of the standing force (regular).

Otherwise, within days, the mobilization base would cease to exist.

Reserves 2000 now estimates that we have so many reservists on full time duty we have already reached Stage 1 mobilization.

What sort of planning is this?  :evil:


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## Scratch_043 (20 Jun 2004)

I think we can be sure that this is nothing other than a Liberal Bribe leveled at reservists: 'IF we are re-elected, we will put this extra $30M into the reserves, but if you vote for someone else, too bad.'

That's why I want them out, they only want what's best for their party, not what is good for the country.


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## logau (20 Jun 2004)

:gunner: It seems the local voters are about to give the Minister of Defence a taste of the   :skull: he gave the reserves   How dumb do the LIberals think you are?


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## NMPeters (21 Jun 2004)

They obviously think we're really dumb because their election platform regarding the Reserves was already announced in October 2000. They're just rehashing an old announcement. Here's the government policy statement that was announced in October 2000. Sound familiar?:

"GOVERNMENT OF CANADA POLICY STATEMENT
LAND FORCE RESERVE RESTRUCTURE (LFRR)


I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge and express my appreciation for the many individuals and organizations who have worked so hard to get us to the point where we can move forward in the LFRR process. The late Chief Justice Brian Dickson, Dr Jack Granatstein and Lieutenant-General Charles Belzile (ret'd) began the current process in 1995 with the Special Commission on Reserve Restructure. The Defence Team, particularly the Land Staff, worked thereafter for many years to evaluate the Army Reserve in order to implement the recommendations of the SCRR. The knowledge and experience gained in that exercise have been of invaluable assistance to those doing recent work on the policy and institutional parameters for reserve restructure. The Hon. John A. Fraser and the members of the Minister's Monitoring Committee, D. Bevis Dewar and Dr. David Bercuson, have monitored progress on reserve restructure. At my request, they have also provided me with advice on how to deal with the impasse reached last year in consultations between the Army and the reserve community. Lieutenant-General Mike Jeffery, also at my request, consulted widely in search of common ground among the stakeholders that would provide us with the ability to launch LFRR. These individuals, along with Departmental and Canadian Forces (CF) staff, have wrestled this very complex problem of reserve restructure to the ground. Having reached common ground among stakeholders, I am pleased to re-affirm current Government policy and begin implementation of LFRR.

The Army Reserve is a vital component of Canada's military capability. Indeed, the Defence Mission requires the cooperation of both the Regular and Reserve components of the Canadian Forces. Located in communities throughout Canada, the Army Reserves exist primarily to provide the framework for expansion should the need arise. This is the raison d'être of our Reserve Force, which is characterized by its role as a 'footprint' in communities across the country. Its significant social role of fostering the values of citizenship and public service is one which, as Canadians, we have come to cherish and must protect.

However, Army Reservists also help us to augment our Regular high readiness forces when committed to operations. Since the end of the Cold War, our reliance on these augmentees has increased due to the high tempo of our operational activity. We aim now to have Reservists provide up to 20% of the personnel for these deployments. The Army Reserves are even more prominent in our defence against natural disasters and local emergencies, such as the Saguenay and Red River floods and the Ice Storm of 1998.

The Fraser Report and Lieutenant-General Jeffery's Strategic Plan for LFRR are the key ingredients to the success of this process. The recommendations of the Fraser Report will serve as the Government's blueprint for LFRR, and Lieutenant-General Jeffery's Plan will be the first step in their implementation. This strategic plan provides for fixing some of the problems plaguing the Militia identified in the Fraser Report. It will lay the groundwork for developing future policies to fit the lives of our part-time citizen soldiers. We need them more now than at any time since the Second World War.  They provide the framework for expansion should we require mobilization of forces; for individual and unit augmentation on peace support operations; and, to represent the military footprint in communities across the country. The Strategic Plan, combined with some additional actions I am taking, will ensure that the CF Reserves will continue to be both operationally sound, while contributing to the development of citizenship and to local emergency preparedness.

These actions are taken to clarify public policy as it relates to the Army Reserves and to facilitate the timely and effective implementation of LFRR. Specifically, they include:

 ·	Increasing the number of part-time Army Reservists to at least 18,500 by the end of fiscal year 2005/06;
 ·	Further consideration of national mobilization planning;
 ·	The appointment of a senior official to manage LFRR;
 ·	The appointment of the Hon. John A. Fraser and Major-General Reginald Lewis (ret'd) to monitor LFRR;
 ·	Clarify the authority and role of the Chief of Reserves and Cadets.

These measures demonstrate our commitment to an open and transparent process that will facilitate the participation of the broader reserves community, and the Canadian public, in developing a citizen soldiery ready for the challenges of the 21st century.

Restructure will proceed, and succeed, only with co-operation among the key stakeholders. We have therefore taken a prudent, cautious approach to reserve restructure. As a national institution and a valuable strategic resource serving communities throughout the country, the Militia is synonymous with Canada's proud military heritage. This legacy will remain and be protected as restructuring moves forward. Furthermore, as a matter of public policy, reserve restructure will continue to include the advice and engagement of key stakeholders. These decisions, along with my recent announcement of the expansion of the Canadian Ranger and Junior Canadian Ranger programs, demonstrate the Government's support for our part-time Reservists, and confirms that the CF's presence will continue to be felt across the country."


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## logau (21 Jun 2004)

NMPeters said:
			
		

> They obviously think we're really dumb because their election platform regarding the Reserves was already announced in October 2000.......
> 
> See the CODE WORDS --- Restructure will proceed, and succeed, only with co-operation among the key stakeholders.
> 
> ...


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## Scott (6 Jul 2004)

I was told about a Remembrance Day not that long ago where the troops had gathered at the Mess after the Ceremonies. A visiting member from a Reg Force Unit, who was drunk, was bugging a Veteran who was there as well, about why he had no ribbons, why hadn't he been in longer and on and on. It was getting to the point where a couple of the boys had enough and were going to put a stop to this when the old boy spoke up and clearly.......

"Son, they only called my group when there was a War on." This man was 2NSH(CB)

This does not reflect upon the attitudes of Reg Force members whatsoever, just sums up for me what the traditional role of the Reserves has been. I know it has never been that simple, I just really like the story.

Cheers!


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