# C7, foregrip/sideway



## multihobbist (25 May 2011)

Hey I'm just wondering while I'm far away from shooting again due to an injury.
Even at the shooting competitions, I always preferred to wrap the sling on my left hand/forearm and have the palm facing up right next to the handguard
and this helped me form a perfect 90 degrees angle against the ground at prone position as well as knee for kneeling position and it helped for standing position
to tuck my elbow into the tac vest.

I see that some of the troops are using the foregrip that is under the handguard and I find them quite unconfortable because I always bang my wrist on the grip when I try to quickly change the mag.

Is there a mod for sideway grip for handguard?
I'm also very sure if it exists, it'll help a lot for accidentally pressing the mag release for C7A2 on a long march.

It's just my personal method and preference of shooting but do you know if it's in the market or does anyone know where to get customize the mod?

Also I'm aware that the competition and PWT(s) do not allow any modifications to the rifle.


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## howitzer89 (26 May 2011)

Do you mean having the hand grip point out to the side? Just making sure i understand your question. I believe if your rail system runs all around the hand guard then you can place the hand grip anywhere. If someone can confirm this, im not 100%,


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## REDinstaller (26 May 2011)

The issued folding handgrip is bolted to the handguards through the vent holes. Unless you have ape arms the rails that are at the gas block are too far forward to use effectively to shoot well with.


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## Redeye (26 May 2011)

howitzer89 said:
			
		

> Do you mean having the hand grip point out to the side? Just making sure i understand your question. I believe if your rail system runs all around the hand guard then you can place the hand grip anywhere. If someone can confirm this, im not 100%,



Didn't you just reveal that you're not in the CF, and don't really knoe that much?  We don't have quad rail systems so there's no way to do it with the issue system.


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## howitzer89 (26 May 2011)

I got mixed up with what he said I saw shooting competition and thought he was talking about his personal weapon.


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## Container (26 May 2011)

howitzer89 said:
			
		

> I got mixed up with what he said I saw shooting competition and thought he was talking about his personal weapon.



I think you mean personal firearm.


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## Fishbone Jones (26 May 2011)

I was going to clean this up, but it may serve to remind noobs to stay in their lane and if they're unsure of what is being requested, to ask the OP for clarification.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Sig_Des (26 May 2011)

I'm not a fan of using a ganster grip-style hold for the simple reason that you don't have complete control of the bore.

What I mean by this, is that if you're using the vertical grip, the recoil is travelling straight back the bore, and is actually travelling over your fist. If you were using the grip sideways, the recoil is travelling besides your fist. Personally, I find for positive recoil control, you need to have some sort of of grip on the actual handguard. If you don't, there's that slight wobble in the receiver.


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## multihobbist (26 May 2011)

Thanks Beadwindow 7, I do mean having the grip out to the side.
I am yet to see one and I've only used the sling to substitute that.
I can understand how the actual grip will have a jerking motion with no excuse because for sure it's like if the handguards are bolted down onto the barrel or anything and the grilp will have to harness/mount on the handguard. i.e. creating lack of muzzle control as well as making it harder to control recoil.

I'm just wondering if there is a two or more pieces mounting system that exists

howitzer, I do not own a personal firearm.


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## REDinstaller (26 May 2011)

Think about what BW7 said. Placing your hand out of the recoil line will result in poor muzzle control which also results in wasted ammo and targets that go unstruck. You may think it looks cool, but until you actually experience the military employment of shooting you will never understand the concept.


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## Spooks (27 Jul 2011)

My 2 rubles to this, albeit I have not touched the C7/C8 for firing in nearly 5yrs (gotta love/hate the TCat/PCat caveats). Caveat: I know this thread's last reply was 2mon ago.

I was told by a Coy's 2IC (CFR) that the vertical grip has poor muzzel control as you will tend to biometrically compensate by jerking a little to your elbow-side of the hand holding the foregrip. Mind you, this was on a gunfighter-style range and the shooters were doing reflexive shooting versus trained shooting. I am not gunfighter qualified, but I would believe that in reflexive shooting, your stance and hold on the weapon is looser than that of a 'prone position target relay'.

Now, furthering that thought: if you used a 'sten-gun' style of grip would result in a further muzzle jerk elbow-side and possibly a vertical travel upwards as has been noted by those posting before me. Hypothetical thinking would say that having your foregrip arm out would cause your natural 'bipod' base to be wider (when I say 'bipod' I mean the natural triangle that your arms make when holding the gun in the prone position). This may result in the following: 
The magazine may get in the way due to the rifle being lower on the ground and thus you are resting the gun on the magazine rather than your elbows
The sight may be too low for you to get an accurate sight-picture through and so you will lower your head - lowering your head would cause you to put more weight on your chest since it will need to be lower and mess up your breathing control and/or base to control recoil
Being lower may cause you to lose a firm grip of the weapon (specifically in the shoulder) which would significantly decrease your recoil control.

That is looking at the firing position from the prone. Now let's go into some door-kicker thinking.
Say you are right handed. This means that yoru left hand is the one on the side-grip. With a vertical grip, you left elbow is allowed to stay close to your body. This will grant you a firm base to fire in an already-shakey fire position. If you were to have a side-grip, your elbow would be jetting out to the side which would significantly decrease the stability of that arm and thus your shots would not be as controlled. Secondly (this is older FIBUA/OBUA/non-gunfighter thinking) having your arm up exposes that sweet spot just under your arm where you have little or no protection. The frag vest ballistically protects  front and back, not sides whereas frag protection is anywhere the vest covers. My gut feeling says that having your armpit-area exposed is bad.


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## Jimmy_D (27 Jul 2011)

If your just looking for a better stabalized shot, then another method that i use is putting your none firing hand on the magazine housing, while pointing your index finger toward your barrel. In this position you can rest your elbow into your chest / gut, or on the pouches of your tac vest. Therefore creating a more stable position. 

Also on the same idea, with your hand on the magazine houseing it helps for a quicker reload time then that having your hand out on the foregrip, giving you the chance to put more rounds down range if needed. It also give a better grip of the rifle with will have its benefits as well ( ie: less jerk and recoil ). 

I have tried different methods in the past, and have found the sling around the arm helps in the sence of target shooting / competition shooting, but keeping in the mind of combat shooting, the hand on the magazine housing is my personal choice for better shooting performance.


But just my  :2c:

JD


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## Sig_Des (27 Jul 2011)

A lot of guys, especially competition shooters, like the magwell grip. However many have said it's a bad tactical practice. Pretty decent discussion on this thread:

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9046084761/m/728106647?r=582105747#582105747



> The magwell grip "feels" right because it allows you to support the weapon with less exertion. Your support arm isn't outstretched, requiring more strength. In a situation where you don't have movement, you don't have time constraints (not major ones anyway) and you are trying to make the most precise shot possible, there is merit to this type of grip.
> 
> And that's the rest of the story. It is a comfortable grip/stance, but at best it is a target grip/stance, not a fighting grip/stance





> The magwell grip may work for one or two shots, but it is not intended for rapid, room distance shots.





> Gripping an M4 closer to the mag well would be the equivalent of doing a cup and saucer grip on a pistol



I'll be honest, for competition, when there's little to no time limit, sure. But when you're moving and there's multiple targets, I can understand it being poor form.


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## Jimmy_D (27 Jul 2011)

Like i said just personal preferance, i have used magwell grip while i was  in a TIC and during building clearing and i find that its best for ME. Not to mention i come from a background of a shooting and tatical shooting family. Just like myself being in the infantry, i do adapt and over come any situation.


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## multihobbist (2 Jan 2012)

After experimenting the side way foregrip, I highly recommend not using it.
It allows a bit better muzzle control in close quarters but gets in the way for:
1. mag change and IA
2. slinging the rifle
3. any sort of tactical movement that requires agility such as when you drop the rifle to reach for sidearm or such, if you are a guy it manages to swing right to your groin.
(Exp 1. Using one of the grooves for the sights. Exp 2. Using curved Y shaped mount on the vent holes They are both very stable but not recommended for above reasons.)


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## DirtyDog (5 Jan 2012)

multihobbist said:
			
		

> After experimenting the side way foregrip, I highly recommend not using it.


Glad you cleared that up for us.


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## LordSnow (24 Jan 2012)

I know this is a Forum and all but this is nuts. If you walk up on with the gangster grip mounted on the side somebody will lose their S#!t on you, then tell you to "fix" it, then call up all his buddies and say one of my troops just did ....
Like somebody pointed out you cant possibly sling it and 99% of the time you carry it, it will be just hanging on your chest with one hand on the pistol grip. 
You said you don't like the fore grips because of mag changes and muzzle control and so forth try this http://www.skdtac.com/Magpul-AFG-Angled-Fore-Grip-p/mag.130.htm


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## Thompson_JM (24 Jan 2012)

Pte Cherry said:
			
		

> I know this is a Forum and all but this is nuts. If you walk up on with the gangster grip mounted on the side somebody will lose their S#!t on you, then tell you to "fix" it, then call up all his buddies and say one of my troops just did ....
> Like somebody pointed out you cant possibly sling it and 99% of the time you carry it, it will be just hanging on your chest with one hand on the pistol grip.
> You said you don't like the fore grips because of mag changes and muzzle control and so forth try this http://www.skdtac.com/Magpul-AFG-Angled-Fore-Grip-p/mag.130.htm



I've only tried the Magpul fore-grip at the civy range, but I quite like it... its very comfortable to use and you barely notice it's there.


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