# If you have a Sea-Doo accident, be careful what side of the border you land on



## PMedMoe (25 Aug 2008)

Canucks rescued, then jailed

Near-drowning leads to time in U.S. pokey

Article Link

Two Toronto-area men are behind bars in a Buffalo detention centre after a dramatic rescue from the Niagara River resulted in them being charged with making an "illegal" entry into the U.S.. 

Jason Haist, of Scarborough, along with his cousin Edward Haist, were riding Sea-Doos up and down the river Saturday evening when they were knocked into the water after hitting strong currents near Devil's Hole State Park. 

Edward washed up on the U.S. shore while Jason was pulled out of the river -- unconscious and suffering from a head injury -- by personnel on a tour boat. 

The United States Coast Guard took Jason, who was wearing only a lifejacket and swim trunks, off the tour boat and transported him to Mount St. Mary's Hospital in Lewiston, N.Y., for treatment. 

Catherine Kerr, Jason's live-in girlfriend, later received a shocking message: Jason was going to be jailed for making an illegal entry into the U.S.

*"They're being administratively charged with failure to report on landfall in the States,"* said A.J. Price, a border patrol agent with U.S. Customs and Border Protection. 

More on link

Anybody else find this absolutely ridiculous??


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Aug 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Anybody else find this absolutely ridiculous??



Nope, ...its policy and anyone boating/swimming on any of the Great Lake waters should know this. If all this person says is true then they will walk......


----------



## PMedMoe (25 Aug 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Nope, ...its policy and anyone boating/swimming on any of the Great Lake waters should know this. If all this person says is true then they will walk......



I understand it's policy.  According to the article, they had permission to cross the invisible border in the water.  It was the landfall that got them arrested.  Maybe next time they'll wear a sign:

"In the event of a water rescue, please deposit me on the Canadian side of the river."


----------



## Neill McKay (25 Aug 2008)

The article goes on to quote a spokesman for the US border patrol as saying that they have no discretion in this matter, so the problem appears to be a hard-and-fast rule that doesn't leave any room for the personnel on the ground to use common sense and act reasonably.

I have to wonder, though, how much time the guys had in which to report their arrival in the States before they were arrested?  Did they even have an opportunity to seek out the local customs facility before being carted off?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Aug 2008)

..or maybe all his contraband cigs polluted the beach?


----------



## Snafu-Bar (25 Aug 2008)

They should have said they we're from Mexico  ;D


 This qualifies for the dumbest thing i've heard today thread.

 The US really knows how to kick people when they are down.  :


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Aug 2008)

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> The US really knows how to kick people when they are down.  :



Give me a break....... when/if you do get in you will find yourself following orders/rules that you will find stupid, but guess what, they are arbitrary and you will follow them.


----------



## xo31@711ret (25 Aug 2008)

Very true Bruce...but still one of the most idiotic things I've heard; waste of money, time & (I'm bettin') lots of paperwork.


----------



## Snafu-Bar (25 Aug 2008)

I guess handing them over to Canadian border officials would have been too hard, and a trip to prison for an accident is more appropriate for someone at the mercy of a rescue team.  :


  Cheers.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Aug 2008)

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> I guess handing them over to Canadian border officials would have been too hard, and a trip to prison for an accident is more appropriate for someone at the mercy of a rescue team.  :
> 
> Cheers.



...and of course your super duper detective skills have already cleared them of any possible wrong doings?

What part of "border protection" is too hard for you too grasp??


----------



## aesop081 (25 Aug 2008)

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> I guess handing them over to Canadian border officials would have been too hard, and a trip to prison for an accident is more appropriate for someone at the mercy of a rescue team.  :
> 
> 
> Cheers.



Did you miss the " no discretion" part ?


Of course you did  :


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Aug 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Did you miss the " no discretion" part ?



"Sir, of course I let those two nationals through the gate without checking them out, one of them was bleeding, Sir".


----------



## cavalryman (25 Aug 2008)

This is nothing new.  The US has hard and fast rules on crossing the border in a legal manner - individual officers don't have any leeway.  As anyone who scuba dives in the St Lawrence River will tell you, to dive wrecks on the US side of the border (which runs down the middle of the River) when your charter boat originates on the Canadian side, your have to touch land at a port of entry into the US and show your passport (or other acceptable ID) to US border officials prior to heading out the the dive site.  The same applies not only in reverse, i.e. for a US dive charter boat wanting to dive a wreck in Canadian waters, but also for a Canadian boat returning from a dive trip in US waters - i.e. you have to check through customs at the nearest Canadian port of entry.  Sounds silly? Perhaps.  But it's been on the books for a very long time, but not enforced until the last few years.


----------



## Snafu-Bar (25 Aug 2008)

One was transported via coastguard to a hospital.  : like this guy had a choice in the proceedings.

The other obviously landed on the wrong side of the river after the accident, I guess that immediately makes him a criminal first and someone who needs help somewhere after mugshots and fingerprints.


Border Guard- You there, halt or i'll shoot.
Canadian - Uggh i had a sea-doo accident
Border Guard- Sure you did, now bend over and prepare for a cavity search.
Canadian- Uhggg i knew i shoulda been born a Mexican.

...and the tidbit of noteworthy text in the article

"According to Kerr, Jason had asked and obtained permission from the U.S. Border Patrol to ride his Sea-Doo back and forth across the unseen border that runs down the middle of the Niagara River. "

Cheers.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Aug 2008)

Only one part of that is even remotely " noteworthy"....._According to Kerr_,

One day, when you have someone else's personal safety in your hands/actions, you may understand.


----------



## The Bread Guy (25 Aug 2008)

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> "According to Kerr, Jason had asked and obtained permission from the U.S. Border Patrol to ride his Sea-Doo back and forth across the unseen border that runs down the middle of the Niagara River. "


I stand to be corrected, but permission to go back and forth and be on the water is NOT the same as permission to land/come ashore.





			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Nope, ...its policy and anyone boating/swimming on *any of the Great Lake waters* should know this.


Not to mention the Boundary Waters connecting Ontario and Minnesota....





			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> If all this person says is true then they will walk......


Exactly right - this is where one hopes, if all as reported is indeed the case, the judge will take that into account.  From the same article:


> ....The two men will attend a closed hearing before an immigration judge today. It's expected, they'll either be issued a removal order and deported back to Canada or the judge may dismiss the charges against them.  If a removal order is issued, the two will need to go through an extensive application process in order to return to the U.S. ....


If all is as presented, I think it would be a shame to go the removal order route, given the extra process needed to re-enter.  Then again, if these guys have been naughty in the US in the past, and it now bites them on the south end of them being northbound, it's their fault if it goes the hard way.


----------



## Snafu-Bar (25 Aug 2008)

For future reference, I guess calling ahead to the US border patrol and getting permission to have an accident and wash ashore would be better than asking for permission to play in the water.  ;D

Cheers.


----------



## Good2Golf (25 Aug 2008)

As others have noted, when you are operating  and crossing maritime borders you should always check with both Border services to see what requirements exist for landing and return.  The accident is a complete red herring!  Say the guys weren't in an accident, but had gone over and stopped on the US shore then come back.  I'm sure there are people here who would complain if CBSA stopped the individuals and forced them to prove Citizenship, etc... yet that is exactly what they would be required to do if so asked.  Furthermore, I would have like to have been present to hear the interaction of the individuals...I would think that folks who were reasonably respectful of the authorities might have been returned to the Canadian shore without further incident.  There is something missing from the reporting...

G2G


----------



## J.J (25 Aug 2008)

> Furthermore, I would have like to have been present to hear the interaction of the individuals...I would think that folks who were reasonably respectful of the authorities might have been returned to the Canadian shore without further incident.  There is something missing from the reporting...



DING DING DING...give the gentleman a prize!  

Accidents or mechanical failures happen everyday on the water...do they go to jail. No...Law Enforcement Agencies that work the border regions would tow/assist and facilitate a legitimately stranded boater. There may be intelligence information saying these guys are up to no good, they could have been observed doing something illegal or they could have been warned up-teem times. 
I doubt (I do have knowledge in this stuff), that this is the whole story, there is more to it....


----------



## Neill McKay (25 Aug 2008)

I wonder if a recreational boater sailing in a border area (and having no plan to land in the other country) could claim the right of innocent passage?


----------



## The Bread Guy (25 Aug 2008)

In fact, Google can be your friend.....

From the US:  "Operators of small pleasure vessels arriving in the United States from a foreign port or place are required to report their arrival to (Customs and Border Protection) immediately," and "Under the I-68 program, applicants for admission
into the United States by small pleasure boats are pre-registered and issued a single boating permit for a 12-month period. The I-68 permit allows boaters to enter the United States from Canada for recreational purposes with only the need to report to CBP for further inspection by placing a phone call to report their arrival."

From Canada:  "Do you frequently travel to Canada directly from the United States on a small private pleasure boat? If so, the CANPASS - Private Boats program could be for you."

Is the information there?  Yup.  Do people look at it BEFORE they get into trouble?  Not so much...


----------



## Old Sweat (25 Aug 2008)

Google Devil's Hole State Park and take a look at the river conditions and the park's location near the lower whirlpool. In my opinion, they are lucky to be in detention, and not the subjects of a recovery operation.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (26 Aug 2008)

Well now...........

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/485280
Accidental U.S. 'tourists' can return to Canada pending hearing

  
Aug 25, 2008 04:23 PM 
Robyn Doolittle 
Staff Reporter

Two Canadian Sea-Dooers accused of entering the U.S. illegally have been released from an American immigration detention facility on their own recognizance.
Jason and Edward Haist, both from the GTA, were arrested this past weekend in Lewiston, N.Y. 

The pair were Sea-Dooing in the rapids on the Niagara River Saturday, when Jason was knocked off by large waves. He washed ashore and was taken to hospital, said his girlfriend Catherine Kerr. But after being treated, he was arrested by border officials, she said.
Edward had already been taken into custody.

"That is not the only landfall they made that day and that is why they're in removal proceedings," said A.J. Price, a border patrol agent with U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

"And they never `washed up.' That's a big misconception. They swam to shore ... after the accident."

The pair have been held in Batavia, N.Y. They are able to return to Canada to wait for their hearing.

It may be as much as two weeks before they are able to see a judge and plead their case. Otherwise, they could be barred from entering the United States for as long as 5 years.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (26 Aug 2008)

Yep. Knew there had to be more to the story than what the Canadian media and the accused were letting on. Saw them on the news full of righteous indignation. Bet they're not as mouthy about the US system when they're in front of the judge, and he has all the facts presented.


----------



## aesop081 (26 Aug 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Yep. Knew there had to be more to the story than what the Canadian media and the accused were letting on.



Isnt that the way it usualy end up ?



> Saw them on the news full of righteous indignation.



I saw that too......i just had to yell " their country, their rules"


----------



## geo (26 Aug 2008)

Cheech.... Amateurs!


----------



## PMedMoe (26 Aug 2008)

Well, there ya go!  I retract my original statement.   :-[  Thank you, Bruce!!


----------



## gunnz23 (4 Sep 2008)

You don't have to ask permission to boat around in US waters if your Canadian or Canadian waters if your a US citizen , it's when you land that you must report to a designated customs check in point , by landing that includes dropping anchor. You can drift but if your fishing you better have the propper licence. Anyhow they probably aren't going to get any breaks because they should not have been in that area of the river any how. When civillians go up there without the proper training and planning bad stuff happens , this isn't the first time. It puts the people who have to go and rescue them at risk. In parts the river where they were the current runs from 3 to 15kts +- depending on the hydro dam operations. Do they deserve jail maybe not but they need a lesson in common sense. They are both just lucky to be alive


----------



## Greymatters (4 Sep 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Yep. Knew there had to be more to the story than what the Canadian media and the accused were letting on. Saw them on the news full of righteous indignation. Bet they're not as mouthy about the US system when they're in front of the judge, and he has all the facts presented.



Obtain access to media camera, increase inherent courage by 5 points - a lot of people put on a good show until they get in front of a judge...


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Sep 2008)

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/09/08/6698436-sun.html

Cops hunting for T.O. jet skier
Cops: Man armed, dangerous

By CHRIS DOUCETTE -- Sun Media
The Toronto Sun     

One of two Scarborough cousins who made headlines a few weeks ago when a jet skiing mishap landed them both in a Buffalo detention centre is in troubled water again. 
While the previous ordeal was frightening, the circumstances this time are potentially deadly. 

Toronto Police say they have been trying to find Edward Haist, 21, who they believe is armed and dangerous, since he allegedly took a 9-mm Smith and Wesson handgun Friday from a safe in his cousin Jason Haist's home near Warden and St. Clair Aves. 
"He may be a little depressed, so we're worried about him and the people around him," Det. Joe Digiovanni said yesterday. 

Edward and Jason, 29, made news last month when they were apprehended by U.S. border guards after the elder cousin nearly drowned while they were riding jet skis in the Niagara River. The pair was locked up for 36 hours for entering the country illegally. 
When reached at his home yesterday, Jason said Edward has been under emotional strain since breaking up with his longtime girlfriend a few months ago. "He's just not thinking straight right now," Jason said. 

He said he invited Edward to stay with him and his wife temporarily following the breakup because he was concerned about him. The pair had been doing things together, such as jet skiing, to take Edward's mind off of his relationship woes. 
Jason was planning to tell his cousin to move out weeks ago, but that was put on hold after the jet skiing mishap. "He practically saved my life. I couldn't very well ask him to leave after that." 

Jason said Edward moved out on Friday. But before he left, Jason said, Edward used his keys to access the safe where he keeps his firearms -- four long guns and five handguns, all of which are legally registered and properly stored -- and took a gun and a box of 50 bullets. 
Jason said Edward called him that night and admitted taking the pistol. "I'm worried that he might hurt himself or someone else," Jason said, adding he immediately called the police. 

He claims Edward told him his "time had come" and he was going to do something but he didn't know what. 
Jason said he's concerned for the safety of his cousin's ex-girlfriend and the baby boy they have together. 
He hasn't heard from his cousin in days and said he just hopes he is okay. 

"I really hope he hasn't done something to himself," Jason said. "Someone like that, who has nothing to lose, you never know what they're going to do." 
Jason pleaded for his cousin to "do the right thing." 
"Call me or call the police and surrender," he said. "This can all be worked out, so please don't hurt yourself or anyone else." 

Anyone with information is urged to call police at 416-808-4100, or Crime Stoppers at 416-222-TIPS.


----------

