# Trudeau invited Chinese troops to train at Canadian military bases



## shawn5o (9 Dec 2020)

The article below is from Rebel news (I'm still on the fence about Ezra's news site) but if true, it makes more distrustful of our current PM


*SECRET MILITARY DOCUMENTS: Trudeau invited Chinese troops to train at Canadian military bases*
By Ezra Levant | December 09, 2020

Justin Trudeau invited China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to send its troops for cold weather training at CFB Petawawa in Ontario — and Trudeau raged at the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) for cancelling the training after China kidnapped Canadian citizens Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig.

This is only one of many bombshell revelations in The China Files, a 34-page access to information document released by the Trudeau government to Rebel News, seen below.

Documents that normally would have been completely blacked out by government censors were instead greyed out — the documents remain completely readable. Rebel News has chosen to black out a very small portion that would otherwise compromise the safety of an individual.

How we got these secret documents:

In April of 2019, Rebel News first wrote to the government asking for any records corroborating a Russian report that Canada had sent a delegation to China for the 70th anniversary celebrations for the PLA Navy — a propaganda exercise held just months after the kidnapping of the two Michaels. The Trudeau government delayed replying to Rebel News for 19 months, but when they finally did, they not only confirmed their attendance at that macabre event, but listed other exchanges between the PLA and the CAF. Those include training Chinese commanders at the Canadian Forces College in Toronto, as well as other military facilities in Kingston. Chinese military participants included 1- and 2-star generals and an entire contingent who would learn Canadian cold weather military tactics.

More at https://www.rebelnews.com/the_china_files?utm_campaign=el_chinafiles1_12_9_2&utm_medium=email&utm_source=therebel


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## MarkOttawa (9 Dec 2020)

Globe and Mail story today:



> Global Affairs objected to Canadian military decision to cancel training with China’s People’s Liberation Army
> 
> The department of Global Affairs pushed back against a decision last year by Canada’s top soldier to cut back on interactions with China’s People’s Liberation Army, warning Beijing might consider this a reprisal for the arbitrary arrest of two Canadians.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Dec 2020)

The military is in the right on this one. Unless we planned on arresting and holding some PLA soldiers on trumped up charges during the excercise.


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## Navy_Pete (9 Dec 2020)

This is why I hate the ATI process; you send over confidential, sensitive documents over to some random person with things highlighted for being censored prior to release, but have no control over what finally goes out to the public. Hopefully the ATI cell that handled this gets investigated for releasing five eyes level secret documents.


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## PuckChaser (9 Dec 2020)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Hopefully the ATI cell that handled this gets investigated for releasing five eyes level secret documents.



A lot of them are marked SECRET // CANADIAN EYES ONLY. Much bigger deal that SECRET FVEY.


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## Haggis (9 Dec 2020)

Colin P said:
			
		

> The military is in the right on this one.



If this caused Canada to inconvenience the Chinese, the PMO probably doesn't share this opinion.


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## Jarnhamar (9 Dec 2020)

> Documents that normally would have been completely blacked out by government censors were instead greyed out



heh. Yea that'll happen when the ol' black ink runs low.


Sure is a shame we didn't get to train the Chinese army how to be better killers defenders of democracy.


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Dec 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> If this caused Canada to inconvenience the Chinese, the PMO probably doesn't share this opinion.



Yes well my opinion of said PM and the PMO is not printable here.


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Dec 2020)

> . . .  Chinese participation in winter survival training at CFB Petawawa. It was to have included six to eight People’s Liberation Army members.
> 
> “We understand that [this cancellation] was driven principally by concerns voiced by the U.S. that the training could result in unintended and undesired knowledge transfer to the PLA,” the memo said.



The political diplomatic issues aside, what highly sensitive information has been included in Basic and/or Advanced Winter Warfare training in the years since I first did them and the multiple times afterwards before my retirement?  Is there now a special secret way to put up a 10 man, light a stove or has the avoidance of yellow snow been discontinued?  Can you even say "yellow" snow when instructing Chinese or is it political incorrect?


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## Haggis (9 Dec 2020)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Can you even say "yellow" snow when instructing Chinese or is it political incorrect?



You, sir, owe me a new keyboard.


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## MarkOttawa (9 Dec 2020)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> The political diplomatic issues aside, what highly sensitive information has been included in Basic and/or Advanced Winter Warfare training in the years since I first did them and the multiple times afterwards before my retirement?  Is there now a special secret way to put up a 10 man, light a stove or has the avoidance of yellow snow been discontinued?  Can you even say "yellow" snow when instructing Chinese or is it political incorrect?



Why, at any point and especially after the Two Michaels had been imprisoned as political hostages, would Canada want to do anything that might in any way enhance the PLA's capabilities? This, from the _Globe and Mail_ story, is the very midsummer of delusional diplomatic madness (I write as an erstwhile Canadian dip): 



> "[This] could also damage Canada’s long-term defence and security relationship with China,” the memo to Mr. Shugart said...



THINK ABOUT WHAT IS IMPLIED IN THAT "DEFENCE AND SECURITY RELATIONSHIP". Nutso to the max.

Mark
Ottawa


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## OldSolduer (9 Dec 2020)

You don’t be telling a potential enemy anything. The PM is a useful fool


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## Cloud Cover (9 Dec 2020)

Perhaps Global Affairs was planning a GBA+ conforming honey trap and DND xnayed it.


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## PuckChaser (9 Dec 2020)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> The political diplomatic issues aside, what highly sensitive information has been included in Basic and/or Advanced Winter Warfare training in the years since I first did them and the multiple times afterwards before my retirement?  Is there now a special secret way to put up a 10 man, light a stove or has the avoidance of yellow snow been discontinued?  Can you even say "yellow" snow when instructing Chinese or is it political incorrect?



Less about the material they'd learn but the facilities they'd have access to. Driving around CFB Petawawa would give them the ability to conduct visual and electronic surveillance on an entire Bde plus a good portion of CANSOFCOM. You better believe if we allow PLA troops onto our Bases as soon as they go home there will be targeted cyber attacks on our networks (Wifi and hardline) and social engineering attacks on key individual's social media platforms now that they can be tied to a specific base and unit. They would also learn about how we conduct our training to be able to put out more plausible disinformation campaigns both domestically and towards our expeditionary ops.


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## Cloud Cover (9 Dec 2020)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Less about the material they'd learn but the facilities they'd have access to. Driving around CFB Petawawa would give them the ability to conduct visual and electronic surveillance on an entire Bde plus a good portion of CANSOFCOM. You better believe if we allow PLA troops onto our Bases as soon as they go home there will be targeted cyber attacks on our networks (Wifi and hardline) and social engineering attacks on key individual's social media platforms now that they can be tied to a specific base and unit. They would also learn about how we conduct our training to be able to put out more plausible disinformation campaigns both domestically and towards our expeditionary ops.



I’m with PuckChaser in this one. They will never pass a chance to sniff and surveil.


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## Haggis (9 Dec 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> I’m with PuckChaser in this one. They will never pass a chance to sniff and surveil.


A key enabler for successful control measures in an admirable basic dictatorship.


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## blacktriangle (10 Dec 2020)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Less about the material they'd learn but the facilities they'd have access to. Driving around CFB Petawawa would give them the ability to conduct visual and electronic surveillance on an entire Bde plus a good portion of CANSOFCOM. You better believe if we allow PLA troops onto our Bases as soon as they go home there will be targeted cyber attacks on our networks (Wifi and hardline) and social engineering attacks on key individual's social media platforms now that they can be tied to a specific base and unit. They would also learn about how we conduct our training to be able to put out more plausible disinformation campaigns both domestically and towards our expeditionary ops.



This. Canada is so open that we already make a soft target for foreign actors. I'm not sure why we'd want to give any potential adversary the "icing on the cake". 

I also don't think we should discount the possibility of foreign countries having sleeper agents or cells operating within our country, and they could utilize any information gleaned to support sabotage or other kinetic operations in a time of war.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Dec 2020)

I don't think China cares what they were sending people over for.
I think it was all PR for them. The image of China and Canada training together.


Speaking of Global Affairs under François-Philippe Champagne, he's the guy who had 2 or 3 mortgages with the bank of China right?


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Dec 2020)

China has already riddled us with spies both active and passive. They have put together a formidable intelligence machine that allows them to piece together information collected from passive assets (willing and unwilling Chinese that have worked/travelled here and have accessed low grade info) so as to direct their active assets to key sources. I seen the low level stuff myself at SHOT, where pretty Chinese girls chat you up and quickly dump you when your not doing anything important, moving on to the next guy and the next. I can imagine the pure military hardware shows have even more girls working the circuit.


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## CBH99 (10 Dec 2020)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Can you even say "yellow" snow when instructing Chinese or is it political incorrect?




 :rofl:

Okay, you won the internet today


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## Eagle_Eye_View (10 Dec 2020)

Not surprise to read this. We had a Chinese PLA delegation that came visit our school about 3 years ago and they were giving out “gifts” to staff (coins and souvenirs). Such a nice gesture right? Turns out those gifts had to be quarantine because of suspicion of containing bugs inside that could harm our IT system. Investigation were launched and we never saw those little gifts ever after.


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## CBH99 (10 Dec 2020)

Eagle Eye View said:
			
		

> Not surprise to read this. We had a Chinese PLA delegation that came visit our school about 3 years ago and they were giving out “gifts” to staff (coins and souvenirs). Such a nice gesture right? Turns out those gifts had to be quarantine because of suspicion of containing bugs inside that could harm our IT system. Investigation were launched and we never saw those little gifts ever after.




That's really interesting.  Do you mind if I ask what kind of school / program it was?  (Just so far as was it military/national security related, or computer sciences related, etc etc?)

I don't want to ask anything to pry, I'm just curious about the further context.  That really is scary/interesting tho.


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## Zoomie (10 Dec 2020)

We’re probably not going to discuss this topic anymore on this very open forum.  Civvies can keep talking about all the conspiracy theories that they want - anyone else who knows about “stuff” or “events” should just keep that to themselves.


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## OceanBonfire (10 Dec 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Globe and Mail story today:
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



I'd rather read it from The Globe and Mail than the crap that is Rebel.




			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Less about the material they'd learn but the facilities they'd have access to. Driving around CFB Petawawa would give them the ability to conduct visual and electronic surveillance on an entire Bde plus a good portion of CANSOFCOM. You better believe if we allow PLA troops onto our Bases as soon as they go home there will be targeted cyber attacks on our networks (Wifi and hardline) and social engineering attacks on key individual's social media platforms now that they can be tied to a specific base and unit. They would also learn about how we conduct our training to be able to put out more plausible disinformation campaigns both domestically and towards our expeditionary ops.



I agree with *PuckChaser* on this one.


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## a_majoor (10 Dec 2020)

OceanBonfire said:
			
		

> I'd rather read it from The Globe and Mail than the crap that is Rebel.



Except that no Canadian media company outside of Rebel even looked for this information, and the story would never have broken otherwise.

Here is the National Post:

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/secret-documents-reveal-liberals-dismay-at-cancelled-china-exercises



> Liberals dismayed that military exercises with China were cancelled, secret documents reveal
> The exercises, planned for 2019 at CFB Petawawa, Ont., were cancelled by Gen. Jonathan Vance, Chief of the Defence Staff, shortly after the arrest of the two Michaels
> Author of the article:
> National Post Staff
> ...


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Dec 2020)

I'm sure the Chinese would warmly welcome Canadian Armed Forces personnel close to or onto Chinese soil, right?  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chinese-korea-embargo-aircraft-buzzed-harassment-1.4953093

It's not like China has any reason to think or act badly to Canada, or that they've even said anything publicly along that line...

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/07/07/chinas-ambassador-warns-canadians-to-get-ready-for-retaliation.html



> OTTAWA—China’s ambassador to Canada said Canadians should prepare for retaliation after Ottawa protested the Asian nation’s security crackdown in Hong Kong.
> 
> In an exclusive interview with the Star, Ambassador Cong Peiwu accused the Liberal government of “interfering in China’s internal affairs” by suspending the Canada-Hong Kong extradition treaty and stopping military and “dual-use” exports to the city.
> 
> ...



Yup;  let's bring their troops into Canada.  Nothing like a good, close "cloverleaf" in broad daylight.  I bet they'd even be allowed _*2 starches!!*_ at the mess if they wanted!!     ;D


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## Brad Sallows (10 Dec 2020)

What would be the point of allowing their people to observe and evaluate our people at close range?


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## Weinie (10 Dec 2020)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> What would be the point of allowing their people to observe and evaluate our people at close range?



There is no point, or real gain for the CAF. It does neatly dovetail with the blinkered GAC worldview, which seems to be predicated on some of the inferences in the article below. "Orange man bad" was the prevailing mantra. China was not as bad, or so it appeared, so let's go great guns. Except they are worse, far worse.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2907996/china-sees-new-opportunity-with-justin-trudeau/

From the Chinese perspective, an incredible opportunity for an incremental, surreptitious United Front approach.


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## Old Sweat (11 Dec 2020)

This is vaguely related to an event that happened in the 70s or 80s. Canada sold a number of our military snowshoes to  the Chinese army. A certain Canadian colonel, better known for later being fired as Commander of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, headed a delegation that hosted a Chinese visit to, among other places, the indigenous reserve where the shoes were strung. Someone who was in a position to know remarked that said colonel (a Korean vet) referred to his experiences in the Korean winter at one time to the visitors.

Unofficially a number of people wondered what India made of this, as they had, and still do btw, a border dispute with China in the Himalayas.


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Dec 2020)

Well, I'll be.  I had no idea...but you can see where this is going...

WARMINGTON: Communist Chinese troops observed military exercises on Canadian soil

The Department of National Defence has confirmed China’s People’s Liberation Army was indeed on Canadian soil in February of 2018 for the Canadian Armed Forces winter training exercises.

But DND insists they were there merely as observers.

“We do not train with the PLA,” a DND spokesperson told the Toronto Sun. “However, based on an agreement signed in 2013, there has been the occasional, reciprocal granting of observer-status for non-sensitive activities, including winter survival exercises.”

The Canada-China Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments Agreement came into practice in 2014 when Stephen Harper was still prime minister.

There doesn’t appear to be a reference to this agreement pertaining to the military in documents obtained by Rebel News and reported on by the Globe and Mail Thursday.

But those documents indicated Canada’s Global Affairs had concerns over diplomatic eggshells surrounding the cancelling of communist China’s 2019 winter exercises because of the detention of Canadians Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig, who have now jailed in China for two years.

A series of reports and emails indicate a reluctance from Chief of Defence Staff General Jonathan Vance and Royal Canadian Air Force Major-General Derek Joyce to move forward with these joint endeavours.

Before the detention of the “Two Michaels” and Canada’s arrest of Huawei business executive Meng Wanzhou on charges brought by the United States, DND now acknowledges the 2018 version of winter exercises did have PLA uniform soldiers here as part an agreement between Canada and China.

“For instance, a Canadian Army delegation visited China in January 2018, while a PLA delegation visited Canada in February of that same year,” said the spokesperson.

The documents indicate the winter training was at CFB Petawawa.

“Yes to Petawawa,” said DND.

But DND states “there have been no reciprocal observer-status activities in 2019 or 2020.”

Although contacted, President Donald Trump’s White House said it did not have a comment as of Thursday. The NATO alliance, of which Canada is a member and China is not, has also not commented so far.

Meanwhile, it’s still unclear if observer status covers senior officers at the colonel or general level coming to participate in military educational programs to Canada as the documents indicate were scheduled.

“We will check but the digging required might take quite some time,” said DND.  [I'm having flashbacks of searching for Somalia documents in my spare socks in my buttpack...]

Documents, which were not effectively redacted to cover up classified material, indicate Canadian Armed Forces’ engagements with the “Chinese People’s Liberation Army” in Canada were to include PLA members attending the Canadian Securities Program at CFC (Canadian Forces College) Toronto.

The document states “2 PLA members, typically at the Sr. Col, Col or LCol level” to be confirmed.

There are other similar courses in Kingston mentioned as well but one at this historic college in Toronto stood out since this has been a breeding ground for so many generals on their way up through the ranks.

A different document talks about a “Military Education Commanders Dialogue” involving a “1 star or 2 star level-led delegation” and another “CAF-PLA Defence Coordination Dialogue” involving a “2-star level-led delegation.”

DND has indicated guests who came in for this program are lodged at the “Holiday Inn Yorkdale 3450 Dufferin Street.”

It’s unclear if any guests from China checked in. But it is now clear, and on record, Chinese PLA troops were in CFB Petawawa.

Not a great source, I know, but according to Wiki the Canada-China Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments Agreement or Canada China FIPA negotiations began in 1994 (Liberals under PM Chrétien), signed in 2012 and came into effect in 2014 (Conservatives under PM Harper).


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## OldSolduer (11 Dec 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> You don’t be telling a potential enemy anything. The PM is a useful dangerous fool



And so is the rest of his cabinet. Whoever supports this has a severe case of cranium inserted in rectum syndrome - or however MM puts it.


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## Kat Stevens (11 Dec 2020)

There is currently a photo circulating on facebook of a former CO and RSM of 2CER in a grip and grin pose with some sort of CPLA officer. Commenters are excusing it as "yeah but that was a few years ago", like that somehow makes it less optically, err, odd.


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## OceanBonfire (11 Dec 2020)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Except that no Canadian media company outside of Rebel even looked for this information, and the story would never have broken otherwise.
> 
> Here is the National Post:
> 
> https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/secret-documents-reveal-liberals-dismay-at-cancelled-china-exercises



Not when The Globe and Mail reported it on the same day and was the only other 2 besides Rebel to have access to the documents, as also reported in your link from National Post. So yeah, would rather take it from The Global and Mail than Rebel.


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## Brad Sallows (11 Dec 2020)

A guess/hypothesis: a lot of well-connected Canadians, particularly Canadians with deep connections to the LPC establishment, have over the past years made some rewarding investments in China and want the rewards to continue; for this reason, we get decisions which seem at odds with the interest of Canada because the decisions favour the interests of those well-connected Canadians.  If we had a caste whose job was to investigate financial and political ties and cross-index that information with positions on China, we might know more.


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## daftandbarmy (11 Dec 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> And so is the rest of his cabinet. Whoever supports this has a severe case of cranium inserted in rectum syndrome - or however MM puts it.



It's OK. I'm sure that the decades of aggressive, and successful, Chinese espionage in North America has picked up much, much more than a couple of senior Officers could flopping around on magnesium snowshoes


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## MarkOttawa (11 Dec 2020)

There is a term to describe all those Canadians (and American and others) making big bucks off the Chicoms--including ambassador Dominic Barton--the word is "comprador" and the PRC is getting its revenge vs the West:



> Comprador, (Portuguese: “buyer”, ) also spelled Compradore, member of the Chinese merchant class who aided Western traders in China in the late 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Hired by contract, the comprador was responsible for a Chinese staff of currency-exchange specialists, interpreters, coolies, and guardsmen. Many compradors became extremely wealthy and established businesses of their own. In recent times, the term comprador has come to denote those people who aided Western exploitation of China.
> https://www.britannica.com/topic/comprador



Story today in _Globe_:



> Canada’s envoy to China draws attention of U.S. Senate intelligence committee chair Marco Rubio
> 
> Senator Marco Rubio, chair of the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee, is drawing attention to an earlier chapter in the life of Dominic Barton, now Canada’s ambassador to China, as the U.S. politician presses giant global consulting firm McKinsey and Co. on its business ties to the ruling Chinese Communist Party and state-owned enterprises.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Spencer100 (11 Dec 2020)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> A guess/hypothesis: a lot of well-connected Canadians, particularly Canadians with deep connections to the LPC establishment, have over the past years made some rewarding investments in China and want the rewards to continue; for this reason, we get decisions which seem at odds with the interest of Canada because the decisions favour the interests of those well-connected Canadians.  If we had a caste whose job was to investigate financial and political ties and cross-index that information with positions on China, we might know more.



Guess?


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## dapaterson (11 Dec 2020)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> A guess/hypothesis: a lot of well-connected Canadians, particularly Canadians with deep connections to the LPC establishment, have over the past years made some rewarding investments in China and want the rewards to continue; for this reason, we get decisions which seem at odds with the interest of Canada because the decisions favour the interests of those well-connected Canadians.  If we had a caste whose job was to investigate financial and political ties and cross-index that information with positions on China, we might know more.



Like FIPA?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-what-s-really-in-it-for-canada-1.2770159


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## PPCLI Guy (11 Dec 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> There is a term to describe all those Canadians (and American and others) making big bucks off the Chicoms--including ambassador Dominic Barton--the word is "comprador" and the PRC is getting its revenge vs the West:
> 
> Story today in _Globe_:
> 
> ...


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## Haggis (11 Dec 2020)

It's probably less expensive and less effort to allow them to observe our training (above and beyond what they can see on the CAF's YouTube, Twitter, Facebook etc.) than to work against their espionage efforts.  This makes good fiscal sense to me during a pandemic.


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## Brash (11 Dec 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> It's probably less expensive and less effort to allow them to observe our training (above and beyond what they can see on the CAF's YouTube, Twitter, Facebook etc.) than to work against their espionage efforts.  This makes good fiscal sense to me during a pandemic.



Fiscal sense for which side?
Now they could just focus their espionage effort on achieving other aims.


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## Haggis (11 Dec 2020)

Brashendeavours said:
			
		

> Fiscal sense for which side?
> Now they could just focus their espionage effort on achieving other aims.


I'm just looking at the situation Liberally and with a basic admiration.


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## BurnDoctor (14 Dec 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> I'm just looking at the situation Liberally and with a basic admiration.



Well played.

That's exactly the savage sarcasm I'm here for. Carry on.


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## daftandbarmy (14 Dec 2020)

Haggis said:
			
		

> It's probably less expensive and less effort to allow them to observe our training (above and beyond what they can see on the CAF's YouTube, Twitter, Facebook etc.) than to work against their espionage efforts.  This makes good fiscal sense to me during a pandemic.



"My father taught me many things here — he taught me in this room. He taught me — keep your friends close but your enemies closer." 

-  Michael Corleone, The Godfather Part II (1974), by Mario Puzo & Francis Ford Coppola


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## MarkOttawa (16 Dec 2020)

One doubts this story was in any way related to the above but... :



> No, the Chinese are not on the border of Maine — and the dangers of misinformation
> 
> It may seem like an updated version of the 1966 comedy “The Russians Are Coming! The Russians are Coming!” but there is nothing funny about conspiratorial ravings from the Twitterverse that Chinese troops massed along the border with Maine were schwacked in an airstrike.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Dec 2020)

No real Chinese spy would bother with Maine in the winter.


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## lenaitch (16 Dec 2020)

Colin P said:
			
		

> No real Chinese spy would bother with Maine in the winter.



Reminds me of WWII POW camps in northern Ontario:  if they escaped in the summer the bugs would get them, in the winter, the cold.


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## Cloud Cover (16 Dec 2020)

They built a nice pulp and paper plant in Espanola.


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## YZT580 (16 Dec 2020)

CloudCover said:
			
		

> They built a nice pulp and paper plant in Espanola.


complete with a complete and reasonably accurate map of the world and in colour too. Fantastic piece of cartography especially considering it was done from memory


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## CBH99 (17 Dec 2020)

lenaitch said:
			
		

> Reminds me of WWII POW camps in northern Ontario:  if they escaped in the summer the bugs would get them, in the winter, the cold.




I've often joked that if the Americans were to ever invade central Manitoba, they could probably set up a camp & have it running for a few weeks before anybody even noticed.

And if they had the right physical image to the camp, with the right looking gate guards, they could probably say they were an oil & gas surveying company.

And then they'd leave, as there really isn't worth anything spending blood or treasure on outside of wheat.  Lots & lots of wheat.  

Nobody around.  For miles & miles.  Especially in winter.   



There are certain conspiracy theories that I can understand why people may believe some or all of what is entailed.  If there are elements of truth in a conspiracy theory, it's quite easy for that conspiracy theory to become a lot more believable because there are nuggets of truth that 'hold it together'.  

But this?  Chinese troops massing on the US border, shooting down an F-16, etc etc... in a region that is actually quite built up with both Canadian & American border officers, law enforcement, and cities/towns/villages everywhere?   How on earth do some of these conspiracy theories even make it past the first few brain cells?   :facepalm:    

US Customs, NORAD, Maine National Guard, active military & law enforcement in both countries didn't notice Chinese troops massing on the border, but thankfully some moron with access to Google Streetmaps did?   :2c:



Either way, I'm glad the Chinese aren't sending anybody over for military training.  I know the British had some interesting exchanges with the PLA - I'll find the documentary tonight on Youtube, it was quite good.  But as far as our relations with the Chinese go, I'm glad Vance made the call.  They have winter over there.  I'm sure they can figure out how to fight in it just fine.


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## MilEME09 (17 Dec 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> Either way, I'm glad the Chinese aren't sending anybody over for military training.  I know the British had some interesting exchanges with the PLA - I'll find the documentary tonight on Youtube, it was quite good.  But as far as our relations with the Chinese go, I'm glad Vance made the call.  They have winter over there.  I'm sure they can figure out how to fight in it just fine.



Or ask maybe a closer neighbor like Russia? Them coming to watch us screams to me like they wanna see our TTPs and best practices.


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## ArmyRick (17 Dec 2020)

Following.


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## medicineman (18 Dec 2020)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Can you even say "yellow" snow when instructing Chinese or is it political incorrect?



Let them eat it...

I'm reminded of wandering into my UMS one sunny day in Port au Prince in 2004 to find a bunch of Chinese combat police in my treatment bay getting a tour.  I asked the terp "WTF are these guys and why are they here?"  Terp responds "They're Chinese National Police and they're here to train the Haitian National Police in riot control".    rly: : was what came over my face...then I walked away shaking my head. 

MM


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## Furniture (18 Dec 2020)

Back when I had a real job I sailed on a ship that was escorting PLAN ships into Victoria. 

We were warned to keep our personal devices at home, and not give free data to the Chinese. Even in 2014/15 we understood that the Chinese were bad actors looking to grab whatever they could. I can't imagine a scenario where allowing PLA troops into Ottawa/Petawawa is a good idea.


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