# Rifle Familiarization



## Sgt_McWatt (10 Nov 2005)

I understand that there is some C7 rifle familiarization on BMQ. I was wondering Is it just that, or is it possible to qualify for your markman? Also if it is possible what is the scoring system. Is it groupings, or points depending upon where you hit?


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## Pte_Martin (10 Nov 2005)

you can't get marksman until you do your PWT3 testand correct me if I'm wrong but that is only done on the infantry course and at the unit. the Score is on the grouping size and how many rounds hit the paper


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## xFusilier (10 Nov 2005)

The C7 Training conducted on BMQ, is scored in accordance with the conduct of the practice for the PWT contained in the C7 pam.  I have not taught a BMQ so I am unaware of what the standard is for that practice (PWT I/II).  Infanteers are qualified to PWT III and other arms are qualified to PWT II.  So to answer your question -it depends.


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## 48Highlander (10 Nov 2005)

BMQ courses only do zeroing/grouping if I remember correctly, not even a full PWT 1.  PWT3 is done on the BIQ.

Don't get ahead of yourself McWatt, I've yet to see any candidate score marksman on the BIQ.  Enjoy your famil shoot and focus on learning something new every time;  don't worry about your score untill you've been in for a year or two.


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## Sgt_McWatt (10 Nov 2005)

I don't want to sound like one of "those cadets" It's just I like to excel, didn't mean to piss in any ones morning coffee I was just curious.


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## 48Highlander (10 Nov 2005)

WO. McWatt said:
			
		

> I don't want to sound like one of "those cadets" It's just I like to excel, didn't mean to piss in any ones morning coffee I was just curious.



Don't worry I'm pretty sure you didn't upset anyone, and good on ya for wanting to do well.   However, unless you've done a lot of shooting using rifles equiped with optical sights, you're not going to do very well your first few times on the range.   When I was an (air)cadet I scored marksman with the .22s several times; then on my QL2 course all I succeeded in doing was scareing the target a bit.   It was quite the dissapointment for me, but using an assualt rifle and optical sight is quite a bit different than a bolt action .22 with iron sights, and it takes a while to get used to.


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## chrisf (10 Nov 2005)

The joys of looking things up... for BMQ, EC (Enabling Check for those of you who didn't know, sort of a hands on test) 405.02 is Pass PWT 1. 

That being said, we had loads of ammunition on the range for my BMQ course, as because the ammunition was ordered at the begining of the course, allowing for potential failures, as well as the extra ammunition that had been alloted for pers who quit, we did up to PWT 2, as well as some automatic fire.

I've also done up to PWT 3 (Rundowns), as well at the night supplement. If the resources are available, no reason any trade can't do the training, it's just not mandatory.


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## foerestedwarrior (10 Nov 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> BMQ courses only do zeroing/grouping if I remember correctly, not even a full PWT 1.   PWT3 is done on the BIQ.
> 
> Don't get ahead of yourself McWatt, I've yet to see any candidate score marksman on the BIQ.   Enjoy your famil shoot and focus on learning something new every time;   don't worry about your score untill you've been in for a year or two.



On my rundown on BIQ I scored perfect........ ;D Little bit of advise, make sure you shoot your OWN target... I'm not complaining,I got my DEU's and was the only new guy with my marksmanship badge... 8)


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## 48Highlander (10 Nov 2005)

foerestedwarrior said:
			
		

> On my rundown on BIQ I scored perfect........ ;D Little bit of advise, make sure you shoot your OWN target... I'm not complaining,I got my DEU's and was the only new guy with my marksmanship badge... 8)



Your course staff must have dropped the ball on that one   Should have had you re-shoot.


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## Thaedes (10 Nov 2005)

It's been said before, but I'll add my $0.02 worth.

What you learn in BMQ is not much, weapon familiarization is the best that could be said for it.  Yes, you will shoot the PWT1, but all that really does is exactly what I said earlier, familiarize you with the weapon.

48Highlander, you mention optical sights - however BMQ C7's are not issued with the Elcan optic, they'll be using regular iron sights.  I doubt they'll be issued the new bayonets as well, nor the current lbv's.

What you can expect for the "hands-on test" is just a simple dry weapons handling run-through.  You'll enter a room, with an evaluator who is present - some verbal instructions will follow.  You will be expected to perform individual safety precautions, load, unload, make-safe, a couple of stoppages, and thats it.  One of the easiest PO checks in all of basic, if you can even consider any of the PO checks difficult.

Best of luck to yeah.


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## 48Highlander (10 Nov 2005)

WProhphet said:
			
		

> 48Highlander, you mention optical sights - however BMQ C7's are not issued with the Elcan optic, they'll be using regular iron sights.   I doubt they'll be issued the new bayonets as well, nor the current lbv's.



You're (probably) thinking of the St Jean run BMQ's.  Every BMQ I've taught has had optical sights, and most of the troops on them these days have the curent tactical vests as well.


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## Infanteer (10 Nov 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> Your course staff must have dropped the ball on that one    Should have had you re-shoot.



No kidding - I thought I was a good shot until I got on the automated range at CFB Edmonton; no cheating on this one.  The fact that I continually bombed made me somewhat more conscious of the marksmanship principles....


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## chrisf (10 Nov 2005)

I'm willing to say quite the opposite about the automated ranges, at least the one I fired on in Gagetown... my groupings were fine, but my final score was bizzare, as not all my shots were tripping the sensor, didn't find it to be nearly as reliable as an manual range (If I recall correctly, they registered on the target, but the rifle was too far from the sensor, so they didn't register on the sensor, so they didn't count as shots fired... you run out of rounds, the program won't go to the next serial, as it says you didn't fire X rounds, so you tap the sensor, it registers as shots fired, but obviously no rounds hit the target, so it registers as misses).

Aside from that, I always enjoy my time in the butts... it's sort of a zen experience...


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