# Do I have chance without college or an unrelated certificate?



## LayeSone (22 Jun 2015)

Hey, I am 17 years old and about to graduate from high school.  I am most interested in the navy, specifically these trades: hull tech,  boatswain,  electrical technician, marine engineer, and weapons engineering technician. I am aware that the mminimum requirement is grade 10 but what are my actual  chances of getting the trade I want. 

I plan on taking a year off for night school and/or online schooling, to get my grade 12 math and grade 11 physics.  Thing is, I don't n know what  to do after that. 

When I get out of the navy I would like to pursue a career in firefighting.  Because of this I was thinking of getting my pre service done at a college. I don't know whether or not I should get my FF education before or after the navy. If I get it before I could get things out of the way but the rules can change over time, and I don't know how long I will be in the navy for. What if pre service is no longer a good qualification? I know it isn't entirely likely, but if I'm in the navy for let's say,  10 years, things can change.  I could wait until after the navy to takea 3 month online course with 3 week boot camp to get what I need (if it's still valid) How will the navy look at an unrelated certificate? 

I could also get a diploma in some thing that could relate to a navy trade I am interested in but I would rather apply to the navy after my year "off" rather than go to college first. Would my chances be drastically lower without a diploma? Or would I still have a relatively good shot. 

I m so confused about which path tto take as I don't know how competitive I really have to be. Do they take people with just a high school diploma and little work experience for these trades or should I be more skilled first.


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## George Wallace (22 Jun 2015)

Welcome to army.ca/navy.ca/milnet.ca/air-force.ca.

As you found this site, you have some Google-fu.  It is suggested that you use it and refine your quest to find the answers to what you seek.  Your questions have been asked thousands of times before and answered just as many times.  

First real advice that we give to people like you is:

STAY IN SCHOOL and finish your Grade 12.


If you are applying to join the CAF, and there is an opening in the Trade you wish to enter, Grade Ten may be the bare minimum; but if there are three other applicants for that position, and they all have Grade 12, guess who is not going to be picked.  You.


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## jaysfan17 (22 Jun 2015)

I'd have to agree with Mr. Wallace. Taking a year off of HS is not a good idea. Don't be like me where you end up regretting not enjoying your last year.


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## RCDtpr (22 Jun 2015)

Here's the reality of the CF that recruiters won't tell you.  You are only one serious injury or illness away from finding yourself unemployed.

The CF will still be going strong in a few years and they will still be hiring.  

Get yourself an education


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## LayeSone (22 Jun 2015)

I didn't mean a year off highschool.  I am just about graduate, school very soon and get my HS diploma.  I may have worded it wrong, my apologies.  My parents have drilled it into my head that Iam taking a year "off" before going to college or choosing a career. I'll be  working part time and getting certain highschool credits that I may need for college/navy/firefighting. 

I am just wondering if I should apply to the navy after I get my extra credits or if I should do a college program first. I'm also curious to how much of a chance ssomeone with just a high school diploma would get when applying to the navy.

I am sorry for my intial post. It was far too long and jumbled, and I rambled too much. It's a pain to write anything other than short texts on this stupid phone.


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## mariomike (23 Jun 2015)

LayeSone said:
			
		

> Hey, I am 17 years old and about to graduate from high school.





			
				LayeSone said:
			
		

> I'll be  working part time and getting certain highschool credits that I may need for college/navy/firefighting.



If your dream is to become a firefighter, I don't know how old candidates have to be out of town, but you can apply for TFS at age 18.


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## DAA (23 Jun 2015)

LayeSone said:
			
		

> Hey, I am 17 years old and about to graduate from high school.  I am most interested in the navy, specifically these trades: hull tech,  boatswain,  electrical technician, marine engineer, and weapons engineering technician. I am aware that the mminimum requirement is grade 10 but what are my actual  chances of getting the trade I want.
> 
> I plan on taking a year off for night school and/or online schooling, to get my grade 12 math and grade 11 physics.  Thing is, I don't n know what  to do after that.
> 
> ...



Two of your occupations of interest, Marine Engineering (NCM) and Weapons Engineering Tech (NCM) have subsidized education options available where the CF will pay for your college education.  You might want to initiate contact with your local CFRC to obtain additional information regarding those two occupations and what the educational requirements are.

Good luck!


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## LayeSone (24 Jun 2015)

I am aware that I can apply to be a firefighter at 18 but the chances of that happening are nearly impossible. I am also aware that there is subsidized education for certain trades and I am looking into it.

I am just curious on how much of a chance a young person with just a high school diploma has when applying for the navy. Does the navy hire people straight out of highschool often or is it a waste of time to apply without college.


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## DAA (24 Jun 2015)

LayeSone said:
			
		

> I am aware that I can apply to be a firefighter at 18 but the chances of that happening are nearly impossible. I am also aware that there is subsidized education for certain trades and I am looking into it.
> 
> I am just curious on how much of a chance a young person with just a high school diploma has when applying for the navy. Does the navy hire people straight out of highschool often or is it a waste of time to apply without college.



You have just as good a chance as anyone else that submits an application and does well on their CFAT, just be sure to study before writing that test!  To be eligible for Fire Fighter, the minimum requirements are:

Secondary school graduation certificate or a secondary V certificate of Quebec, including:
o Gr. 11 academic math or math 536 in Quebec; and,
o Any chemistry or physics/physical science course at the Gr. 11 or Sec V level in Quebec


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## BlueAngels14 (24 Jun 2015)

LayeSone said:
			
		

> I am aware that I can apply to be a firefighter at 18 but the chances of that happening are nearly impossible. I am also aware that there is subsidized education for certain trades and I am looking into it.
> 
> I am just curious on how much of a chance a young person with just a high school diploma has when applying for the navy. Does the navy hire people straight out of highschool often or is it a waste of time to apply without college.



I just finished reading your post from the beginning. If I understand you correctly, you'd like to pursue one of the trades you mentioned above in the Navy, then pursue a firefighter career after experiencing the Navy ? I am by no means an expert but I am far enough into my application to have a clear understanding of the process. To answer your question in regards to how much of a chance you have with a high school diploma, it really depends on the trade and the entry plan you choose. Seeing that you mentioned quite a few "tech" and "engineer" trades, I would say that the chances are slim unless you're pursuing the subsidized education plan. Most if not all trades that have the words "tech" and "engineer" in it require some sort of post-secondary engineering degree if you choose the direct entry plan. Although a trade may say the minimum requirement is grade 10 or high school diploma, that is only if you decide to pursue the subsidized education plan. Since you're taking a year off, I'll assume that you mean you wanted to get into the CF by direct entry. Allow me to elaborate with an example below.

A Sergeant sat me down a few days ago at my CFRC to explain how it works when I'm applying for a trade. Take MARS Officer for example, which is what I'm currently applying for. My CFAT results came back saying that I do indeed have the score to qualify for the MARS trade. The Direct Entry Officer (DEO) plan for MARS is then outlined by an entry standards chart. It states that an ideal DEO candidate would have a Bachelor of Engineering, Science, or Arts; and an acceptable candidate would have any undergraduate degree from a recognized Canadian university. To sum it up, first your CFAT score determines whether you qualify for certain trades, second if you do qualify and would like to pursue the direct entry plan, there are academic requirements that you have to satisfy in order to continue.

Lastly, don't forget that depending on whether you're applying for regular or reserve force (full/part-time), there is a contract length of how many years you have to serve before you can release. If your ultimate goal is to become a firefighter, do you really want to pursue other trades in the Navy for x number of years before being able to pursue the firefighter career ? Keep in mind that Fire Fighter is also a trade in the CF, do some research on it and see if that's something you'd like to do. It's the best of both worlds if you want to experience the CF and become a firefighter. You can find the trade by clicking on this link: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/firefighter-62


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## mariomike (24 Jun 2015)

From the Original Post, it sounded to me like firefighting is something s/he wants to do after they get out,



			
				LayeSone said:
			
		

> When I get out of the navy I would like to pursue a career in firefighting.





			
				BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> If I understand you correctly, you'd like to pursue one of the trades you mentioned above in the Navy, then pursue a firefighter career after experiencing the Navy ?


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## BlueAngels14 (24 Jun 2015)

Yea I see it now, you're right mariomike. Also just wanted to quote the direct entry part for Fire Fighter:

DIRECT ENTRY

If you already have a college diploma, the Forces will decide if your academic program matches the training criteria for this job and may place you directly into the required on-the-job training program following basic training. Basic training and military occupation training is required before being assigned.

Fire Fighter is a very popular occupation and, as a result, very competitive. Successful applicants often have additional education in a related field or previous experience as a full- or part-time fire fighter. Applicants should be physically fit, follow a physical fitness program and pursue an active and healthy lifestyle.

All applicants are required to successfully pass the Firefighter Pre-Entry Fitness Evaluation prior to beginning training at the Canadian Forces Fire Academy.


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## DAA (24 Jun 2015)

BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> Yea I see it now, you're right mariomike. Also just wanted to quote the direct entry part for Fire Fighter:
> 
> DIRECT ENTRY
> 
> ...



Regrettably, there is NO such thing as "Direct Entry NCM", it just doesn't exist.  It's either unskilled, semi-skilled or skilled.  In reality, the CF has hired about 16 Fire Fighters so far this year and only 4 of those had any kind of prior fire fighting experience and or qualifications.

Having a College Diploma associated with an occupation "might" garner you some additional pay and or rank entitlements at the time of enrolment but it sure won't give you much of a leg up on someone who doesn't.  That's just the way things work.


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## Blackadder1916 (24 Jun 2015)

BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> . . . . . I am by no means an expert but I am far enough into my application to have a clear understanding of the process. To answer your question in regards to how much of a chance you have with a high school diploma, it really depends on the trade and the entry plan you choose. Seeing that you mentioned quite a few "tech" and "engineer" trades, I would say that the chances are slim unless you're pursuing the subsidized education plan.  . . . . .



Yes, I agree, you are no expert.   . . . "the chances are slim" . . .  huh? I would suggest you stay within your lanes.

To the OP - the chances are the same for everybody.  The majority of people who enter the CAF (soldiers, sailors and the other guys) do so with only a high school diploma (or sometimes with less - though not as many as when I joined).  Yes, there are a lot of individuals who enroll having already met the educational requirements of their occupation (mostly DEO . . officers, and some already trained tradesmen) but the Forces train from scratch most of it personnel, either in CF run schools, in civilian schools contracted to provide (in part or in whole) the necessary training, or by subsidizing members to attend civilian schools which are deemed acceptable (by the CF).  How education and training is provided is determined by the CF depending on a lot of factors.  The only way for you to find out if you are acceptable is to apply.


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## mariomike (24 Jun 2015)

BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> Yea I see it now, you're right mariomike. Also just wanted to quote the direct entry part for Fire Fighter:



If I understand the OP correctly, it seems like s/he is trying to decide,



			
				LayeSone said:
			
		

> I don't know whether or not I should get my FF education before or after the navy.


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## BlueAngels14 (24 Jun 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree, you are no expert.   . . . "the chances are slim" . . .  huh? I would suggest you stay within your lanes.



I will take your advice on staying within my lanes as I am new. However, I would also suggest you read the entire post rather than nitpicking on just part of one sentence. I did mention "unless you're pursuing the subsidized education plan", meaning for direct entry plans. As I was shown by a Sergeant there are academic standards for it. When I tried to apply for Signals, even though my CFAT score was good enough for it, I didn't meet the academic requirements to apply as a DEO because my degree is not in the engineering field.


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Jun 2015)

BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> I will take your advice on staying within my lanes as I am new. However, I would also suggest you read the entire post rather than nitpicking on just part of one sentence. I did mention "unless you're pursuing the subsidized education plan", meaning for direct entry plans. As I was shown by a Sergeant there are academic standards for it. When I tried to apply for Signals, even though my CFAT score was good enough for it, I didn't meet the academic requirements to apply as a DEO because my degree is not in the engineering field.



You should have STFU after the part in yellow.  I'm explain why and use a small list for ease and your ability to mentally ingest the info.

1.  You are an *APPLICANT*.

2.  Because of #1, you don't know jack shit about how the CAF works.

3.  Because of #2, you should not be giving anyone advice on what to do, or the inner workings of the CAF.

There are people answering this thread with intimate knowledge and experience in the things you are swinging and missing at.   :


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## LightFighter (24 Jun 2015)

BlueAngels14 said:
			
		

> Seeing that you mentioned quite a few "tech" and "engineer" trades, I would say that the chances are slim unless you're pursuing the subsidized education plan. Most if not all trades that have the words "tech" and "engineer" in it require some sort of post-secondary engineering degree if you choose the direct entry plan. Although a trade may say the minimum requirement is grade 10 or high school diploma, that is only if you decide to pursue the subsidized education plan.



Funny, seeing as how I've met a number of Vehicle _Techs_, Supply _Techs_, Combat _Engineers_, and LCIS _Techs_(now ACISS-CST) who have no post secondary.

A post secondary degree is not required for NCM trades.


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## BlueAngels14 (24 Jun 2015)

Alright well this escalated quickly. Look veterans I'm not here to make enemies just stating what I was told two days ago by the CFRC. I didn't say anything about NCM as I said I'm applying for a DEO trade. Out.


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## Loachman (24 Jun 2015)

And locked as part of the de-escalation process...

Anybody with anything useful to add, please PM me.


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