# Normal or abnormal situation?



## mld (3 Dec 2012)

Please let me know what you think! I am a university grad with a 4.0 GPA, plenty of work and volunteer experience and aced the CFAT, interview and medical, I applied to be a medic...


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## Loachman (3 Dec 2012)

Relax.

Breathe deeply and slowly.

Have a beer.

Be patient.





























And don't make any more silly polls.


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## Gunshark (3 Dec 2012)

Loachman said:
			
		

> And don't make any more silly polls.



+1  :nod:

Sounds like you're confident your application is very strong, so trust your instinct on that. Excitement is understandable but there's not a whole lot of purpose for this question/poll because this news could mean anything, and you'll find out soon enough anyway. It sounds like your application might be ready for its next step in the process, whatever it might be. So I'd stay optimistic and assume it's good news. But never have any expectations during the recruiting process because any day things can change. Just simply go through it the best way you can. Stay confident, calm, and I'd say a bit more modest.  Best of luck man!


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## mld (3 Dec 2012)

I made the poll simply for fun, not to base my hopes on its outcome. I know whatever tomorrow brings, life will go on. I am not freaking out, or anything. Simply did this for the entertainment value, sorry if it annoyed or offended you in anyway. Thanks for the wishes of luck though, even though I am a woman, the intent is the same


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## Gunshark (3 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> I made the poll simply for fun, not to base my hopes on its outcome. I know whatever tomorrow brings, life will go on. I am not freaking out, or anything. Simply did this for the entertainment value, sorry if it annoyed or offended you in anyway. Thanks for the wishes of luck though, even though I am a woman, the intent is the same



Haha oops, sorry woman! It's not at all offensive in any way, no worries. Ok ok I'll vote!


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## Loachman (3 Dec 2012)

Roger.

We see a lot of worriers and hyper people asking such questions.

Life was so much easier in the days before people had an internet to stoke them almost to seizure levels.

I'm relaxed and calm now. I hope that you are too.

And good luck.


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## mld (3 Dec 2012)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Life was so much easier in the days before people had an internet to stoke them almost to seizure levels.



Ha ha! Just had a mental etch-a-sketch of me convulsing on the floor clutching my poor phone waiting for the darned phone call!!! No worries, totally relaxed. I guess I am glad for the two year old rampaging toddler that requires all my attention  Thanks for the luck, I am sure it will all be fine!


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## Sizzle709 (3 Dec 2012)

Go to bed at a normal time, wake up first thing, have your coffee, tea or whatever warm beverage you enjoy. Shower, get dressed and then call the Recruiting Center. You'll feel good when your calling regardless of what the recruiter has to say.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> I made the poll simply for fun, not to base my hopes on its outcome.



because hope is the first step on the path to disappointment


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## Gunshark (4 Dec 2012)

Good luck, mld!


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## mld (4 Dec 2012)

So I got my news. It is not good, but it is not bad either. 

The recruiting officer called this morning to profusely apologize to me. He made a mistake when he interviewed me for the medic position (I had originally been applying for ROTP). He told me there were 8 positions available, and due to my scores and education I am extremely competitive, and will almost definitely be offered a position. He apologized because he failed to realize that although there were 8 positions available nationally, my province (Quebec) had already reached its quota for med techs. So as of today there are 7 positions still available nationally. He told me that if those positions are not offered to anyone in the provinces  that still have spots they will be opened up to the national pool of applicants (including me) on Dec 17. If I am not selected I can still go ahead with my ROTP application if I wish.

I am not sure if this is a normal situation, or what to think about all of this. If someone who has experience in recruiting could comment on this situation, it would help me out a lot. My biggest question is: is it reasonable to believe that there will be positions available on Dec 17? Do positions move so fast that 7 can disappear in 9 working days? Opinions welcome!


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## brihard (4 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> So I got my news. It is not good, but it is not bad either.
> 
> The recruiting officer called this morning to profusely apologize to me. He made a mistake when he interviewed me for the medic position (I had originally been applying for ROTP). He told me there were 8 positions available, and due to my scores and education I am extremely competitive, and will almost definitely be offered a position. He apologized because he failed to realize that although there were 8 positions available nationally, my province (Quebec) had already reached its quota for med techs. So as of today there are 7 positions still available nationally. He told me that if those positions are not offered to anyone in the provinces  that still have spots they will be opened up to the national pool of applicants (including me) on Dec 17. If I am not selected I can still go ahead with my ROTP application if I wish.
> 
> I am not sure if this is a normal situation, or what to think about all of this. If someone who has experience in recruiting could comment on this situation, it would help me out a lot. My biggest question is: is it reasonable to believe that there will be positions available on Dec 17? Do positions move so fast that 7 can disappear in 9 working days? Opinions welcome!



Perfectly normal. For many trades, recruiting targets are divided out nationally for the first three quarters of the fiscal year. Each recruiting centre will try to hit its target with qualified applicants who have been merit listed. And yes, this means that if there are 9 high meriting applicants in Calgary, but Calgary only has 8 positions, then #9 could well end up stuck, and someone recruiting out of another part of the country, despite being lower on the national merit list, will get first kick at filling that recruiting centre's targets. In the last quarter, any residual positions that remain unfilled get pooled nationally, and they go top down on the merit list.

As for whether positions will remain, I can't say. There may be a recruiting centre somewhere with 5 positions still to fill, and they've been working on other stuff and will do all of their offers for medic a week before the deadline. Or those positions may remain vacant. All you can do is wait for word.


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## mld (4 Dec 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Perfectly normal. For many trades, recruiting targets are divided out nationally for the first three quarters of the fiscal year. Each recruiting centre will try to hit its target with qualified applicants who have been merit listed. And yes, this means that if there are 9 high meriting applicants in Calgary, but Calgary only has 8 positions, then #9 could well end up stuck, and someone recruiting out of another part of the country, despite being lower on the national merit list, will get first kick at filling that recruiting centre's targets. In the last quarter, any residual positions that remain unfilled get pooled nationally, and they go top down on the merit list.
> 
> As for whether positions will remain, I can't say. There may be a recruiting centre somewhere with 5 positions still to fill, and they've been working on other stuff and will do all of their offers for medic a week before the deadline. Or those positions may remain vacant. All you can do is wait for word.



Ahhh, ok! I was wondering how they came up with Dec 17! That answers my question completely, thanks for the insight. The situation sucks, but I am really fortunate that I still have hope, where so many others don't at the moment.


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## Loachman (4 Dec 2012)

If you are already a university graduate, are you not ineligible for ROTP? Should you not be applying as a DEO?


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## mld (4 Dec 2012)

I have a BSc, BEd and an MEd. I applied for ROTP Nursing Officer. I really want to do something in the medical field, as my goal is to be a doctor. I have everything a medical school is looking for, except medically related experience. I never even knew that there was a med tech trade until my husband pointed it out. The recruiter didn't tell me about it because he assumed with my education I would want to go officer. I fell in love because it would allow me the opportunity to learn and work in a medical field while serving Canada. This would also give me the experience I need to apply to medical school and I think give me a "foot in the door" when I apply to MMTP or MOTP 5 or 6 years down the road. Doing a nursing degree through ROTP seemed like a really costly stepping stone (time and money) when in the end my goal is to be a Medical Officer. I hope that makes sense. And please understand, I am not using the military for the just experience on my resume. My husband is in for life, and I hope that I am afforded that opportunity. I would like to make my career out of being in the forces. I was told I could apply DEO for many trades, like AERE officer, Con. Eng. Officer, Trg. Dev. Officer or Aerospace control. But my heart is in the medicine, and I don't think the forces would want someone in a position if they weren't fully committed to it.


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## Loachman (4 Dec 2012)

I'm not questioning your motivation at all - stressing over (stated thusly in jest) "abnormal situations" would indicate an acceptable level of motivation - but simply questioning your eligibility for ROTP. I was of the understanding that that programme was solely for those without a degree already. It's idle curiosity, as I do not know and it's not really within my area of interest.


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## mld (4 Dec 2012)

Sorry, I guess I was a little defensive. ROTP is open to anyone applying for a trade in which they are not already qualified. So, for instance, I cannot apply through ROTP as a pilot or an Aerospace Control Officer because I am already qualified. I also cannot apply as AERE or Con. Eng. Officer because although I don't have their preferred degree (engineering) I do have a degree listed in their qualifications (BSc in chemistry and physics). Because I applied as a Nursing Officer, my application was accepted. I would only have to do two years at University due to transfer credits from my science degree. I friend of mine went through ROTP last year. She already had a BA (English major), but she is going Log O and is doing a Linguistics degree now.


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## Loachman (4 Dec 2012)

Roger. Thanks.


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## curious george (4 Dec 2012)

If I may interject respectfully, suppose you apply ROTP nursing, wouldn't it be a waste of spot if there was another applicant who truly wanted to become a nursing officer for the sake of becoming a nursing officer?  And wouldn't it be a waste of military training money?


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## MusclesGlasses (5 Dec 2012)

curious george said:
			
		

> If I may interject respectfully, suppose you apply ROTP nursing, wouldn't it be a waste of spot if there was another applicant who truly wanted to become a nursing officer for the sake of becoming a nursing officer?  And wouldn't it be a waste of military training money?



 My favorite part of your post is where it's obvious you didn't read the rest of the posts above yours. :facepalm:


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## curious george (5 Dec 2012)

MusclesGlasses said:
			
		

> My favorite part of your post is where it's obvious you didn't read the rest of the posts above yours. :facepalm:



Ah. Missed the part she "originally" applied ROTP - but still can if all the spots for med tech are filled.  i'm just jittery because i know how competitive nursing officer is, that's all.


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## Blackadder1916 (5 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> . . . . .  as my goal is to be a doctor. I have everything a medical school is looking for, except medically related experience.  . . . . .  This would also give me the experience I need to apply to medical school and I think give me a "foot in the door" when I apply to MMTP or MOTP 5 or 6 years down the road. . . . . . .



I'm sure there are a few threads on this means that discussed (and mostly refuted by knowledgeable and experienced individuals) becoming a Med Tech as a stepping stone to med school.  Though I was familiar with a few Med Techs (well, actually Med As, _I'm dating myself_) who became doctors, I can recall only one who made that jump (not directly, went Pharmacy under UTPM first) while still serving in the Reg F.  However, I do know quite a few individuals who went MMTP without any previous "medically related experience", among them infantry officers (including the current Surg Gen), armour, artillery, pilots (including a former Surg Gen who is now, I believe, the current Col Cmdt of the CFMS), signals/communications, engineers and logisticians.  If you already "have everything a medical school is looking for", becoming a Med Tech is unlikely to enhance your application to med school.  As for applying for MMTP or MOTP, (unless things have changed significantly) the number one criteria (but not the only thing of course) they are looking for is whether an individual has already been accepted to, or is currently attending, medical school.


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## mld (5 Dec 2012)

I want to make my application to med school as good as possible, so this is another thing I am doing. MMTP requires that you be a member of the forces, and being a med tech satisfies that AND gives me a job that I will love doing while I am going through the application process. Different people follow different paths to similar goals. So for you to tell me that being a med tech is not a stepping stone is kind of redundant. If becoming a physician works out in the forces, great! If it doesn't, I will have to do it as a civilian down the road. Thanks for you concern I guess, but I think I have a handle on everything.


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## mld (5 Dec 2012)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I can recall only one who made that jump (not directly, went Pharmacy under UTPM first) while still serving in the Reg F.



I totally understand this; however, he likely didn't have a degree already. How many medics do you know that have master level degrees? I am certainly not demeaning them, but I am told that it is quite abnormal for someone with such an academic background to go into the medic field.


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## DAA (5 Dec 2012)

Gee....I worked with a Cpl Clerk (Reg F) years ago who had a degree in Nuclear Engineering.  After about a month working with him, I was positive that in University, he must have stood too close to the plutonium for way too long when going to school.  What a thud..........   :facepalm:


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## mld (5 Dec 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> Gee....I worked with a Cpl Clerk (Reg F) years ago who had a degree in Nuclear Engineering.  After about a month working with him, I was positive that in University, he must have stood too close to the plutonium for way too long when going to school.  What a thud..........   :facepalm:



haha! Being educated certainly does not always make one intelligent, or socially adept for that matter. Nuclear Engineering - YIKES!


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## DAA (5 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> haha! Being educated certainly does not always make one intelligent, or socially adept for that matter. Nuclear Engineering - YIKES!



Not sure just how indepth you have been counselled mld, but based on your academic quals, have you ever considered either of these as possible options???

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/bioscienceofficer-51#info-1

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/trainingdevelopmentofficer-72#qr


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## mld (5 Dec 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> Not sure just how indepth you have been counselled mld, but based on your academic quals, have you ever considered either of these as possible options???
> 
> http://www.forces.ca/en/job/bioscienceofficer-51#info-1
> 
> http://www.forces.ca/en/job/trainingdevelopmentofficer-72#qr



I have done a lot of research myself, and bioscience officer makes me DROOL! I would love to do that, but although my undergrad is an honours, it is a major in physical chemistry with minors in math and psychology. There are only a small handful of Bio Sci Officers, and I don't think my qualifications are competitive enough. 

Training development Officer is an interest for sure, but at this point I really don't want to give up on becoming a doctor. I really want that. If for some reason that doesn't work out then I can put in a CT to change. At least while I am waiting during the CT process, I still have a job that I (hope I) will love doing. I did ask the recruiting officer about it, and he said that they have not hired training dev. officers off the street in years. Last year there were two positions available, and both were NCM's who showed promise and had BEd degrees. So the best chance I have for that is to make sure I show promise and get good reviews as a medic. 

Teaching is not an option for me. My husband is in the forces and we get posted too often for me to ever land a contract. No one likes hiring military spouses because we are so transient.  I guess the old saying "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" comes to mind!

I notice that almost everyone I talk to advises me to go officer. Is it that unusual for people with degree to go in as an NCM? I am honestly curious, because it is literally _everyone_. Do you think I am making a huge mistake by going in as a NCM?


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## DAA (5 Dec 2012)

Well a few things come to mind.....

Is it really going to hurt you to apply for MAO-BIO or TDO?  Give it a shot and see what happens.....atleast you can say you tried!  You just never know, you may end up with one of the two and be happy in the end!

As far as applying for NCM while having a bachelors or masters degree......it happens and it happens by choice.  These people are generally always steered towards the officer stream but sometimes they just aren't interested in it and just want to be an NCM.

It all boils down to personal choice and what you want to do.


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## Melbatoast (5 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> I notice that almost everyone I talk to advises me to go officer. Is it that unusual for people with degree to go in as an NCM? I am honestly curious, because it is literally _everyone_. Do you think I am making a huge mistake by going in as a NCM?



Keep in mind that the minimum entry qualification for any NCM is 17 years old with grade 10 (not that that will get you in these days but...). The career arc is structured from that starting point. You may end up very quickly disillusioned as an NCM, as you are literally told how to suck eggs and given very little responsibility for the first few years. Now, you might be able to keep your head down and plow on, but you won't be promoted to Sgt one magical day either. At least three years to Cpl and 2 years in each rank thereafter if all the stars align. I'm not insulting anyone here, I was an NCM and did very well, but I had to put up with a lot of stuff I could have done without. I've seen many more prior-educated NCMs pull the plug early than stick around.

The officer world isn't a perfect fit for everyone either.

Still your choice.


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## mld (11 Dec 2012)

In case anyone was curious, the provincial barrier was taken down a week early. I got my phone call today  Leaving for BMQ on Jan 26.


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## Ciskman (11 Dec 2012)

mld said:
			
		

> In case anyone was curious, the provincial barrier was taken down a week early. I got my phone call today  Leaving for BMQ on Jan 26.



Congrats! I read through this thread, you have a good attitude. I'd wager you've got a pretty good career ahead to look forward to. Good luck.


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## mld (11 Dec 2012)

HappyWithYourHacky said:
			
		

> Congrats! I read through this thread, you have a good attitude. I'd wager you've got a pretty good career ahead to look forward to. Good luck.



Thank you! I think attitude is half the battle


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## Loachman (12 Dec 2012)

At least.

And good luck.


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