# Reserve A-stan Tour in 2007; 36 bde



## jmackenzie_15 (8 Sep 2005)

From whats been passed down from our CO at my home company, 36bde is supposed to commit a rifle company of reserve troops for a tour in afghanistan.Workup training beginning in January, lasting for a year, and then a 6 month tour in afghanistan.

Does a year of work up sound right to anyone? I have no experience, or know anyone with any experience on this matter.
I always thought it was 3 months for regulars and 6 months for reservists... im hoping its a miscommunication, because a year of workup training in say, petersville, does not sound appealling  

Anyone else hear anything about this from their home units?


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## MikeM (8 Sep 2005)

A year sounds quite long..

I know for TF 3-06, the workup is from Feb - May and then 6 weeks at CMTC and then deploy in August 06.. for 6 months. 

Perhaps the year of workup includes training at the home unit prior to deploying to the actual work-up training itself?


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## KevinB (8 Sep 2005)

:blotto:

 Read a Pl for Mirage and a PL for Gate duties in K town...

Ask the LER's gearing up for it now

 They got the same deal

No one is going to let a reserve coy walk around K town unless they have been smoking rock.


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## jmackenzie_15 (9 Sep 2005)

At first I heard the tour was only 2 months.... then it was 2 months workup, then 2 months in a-stan... then 6 months workup in gagetown, 6 months in afghanistan.... now its a year in gagetown?

that just cant be right.Even if we are reservists... it used to be 6 months for a regular tour?

To those that have done workup training for tours.... what is it like?

is it like a really strict course, or what? Im just wondering what to expect if I do end up going.... BIQ all over again, or regular working days/conditions, except with workup training material?


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## jswift872 (9 Sep 2005)

from what i have been told is that there are two separate tours, once is 2 months (1 month work up, 1 month deployed) to tear down camp Julien Then the "long" one if you will is next year and work up training starts in Jan.   That's all I have heard till now, it is slowly being passed down the Chain Of Command


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## Infanteer (9 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> No one is going to let a reserve coy walk around K town unless they have been smoking rock.



Hey, the Reservists don't want to be walking around there until they get some decent coffee shops up!


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## KevinB (9 Sep 2005)

True - heck I'm surprised Timmy's does not have a few set up (they have Timmies in Iraq beleive it or not)

 I'd love a PSD gig guarding the Timmy's managers - free coffee, low risk (who could brign themselves to kill the coffee guys - I mean really?)


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## jmackenzie_15 (9 Sep 2005)

J-Swift said:
			
		

> from what i have been told is that there are two separate tours, once is 2 months (1 month work up, 1 month deployed) to tear down camp Julien Then the "long" one if you will is next year and work up training starts in Jan.     That's all I have heard till now, it is slowly being passed down the Chain Of Command



Same here.

What im wondering is, 

A) What is the work up training like, and
B) is it 6 months work up, or a year?


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## Armymedic (9 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> True - heck I'm surprised Timmy's does not have a few set up (they have Timmies in Iraq beleive it or not)
> 
> I'd love a PSD gig guarding the Timmy's managers - free coffee, low risk (who could brign themselves to kill the coffee guys - I mean really?)



Hey Kev,

For goood money, I'll be your wingman on that. You'll need a good combat medic...


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## Chags (9 Sep 2005)

Hey, we better get a Timmy's in Wainwright before we set one up in Afghanistan!


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## Brad Sallows (9 Sep 2005)

A year?  Crikey.  During WWII a year was enough time to recruit and train an infantry division for divisional operations.  We might as well pack up the reserve and save some money by recruiting directly off the street as needed if it has to take that long.


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## Lost_Warrior (9 Sep 2005)

1 year sounds about right.   34th brigade reserve units are doing an 11 month work up training for Afghanistan.


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## cbt arms sub tech (9 Sep 2005)

What types of positions are presently open for reservists out of curiousity for 34 CBG?


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## Lost_Warrior (9 Sep 2005)

I dont know how many of what trade is needed, but I have a buddy who is about to leave for 11 months work up training and we're an armoured recce unit.


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## KevinB (9 Sep 2005)

From my understanding the ONLY 0 trades to be employed in trade are the R031's.

 I gather R sigs, clerks etc may have positions (don't quote me)


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## Lost_Warrior (9 Sep 2005)

from the 34th?   Obviously not.  We got a guy heading out soon for his work up training.

We also got a guy doing his work up training for haiti as we apeak.  (the first I heard of reserves going to haiti)


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## Lost_Warrior (9 Sep 2005)

or maybe we're talking about a different rotation.   I'll find some more info on exactly which one before I post further.


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## KevinB (9 Sep 2005)

Armoured Reservists are NOT going to be deployed in trade - unless they have Coyote Driver, Gunner or Surv OP.
 Kinda hard to man a surviellance system with un qualified bodies.

Reserve 031's at least at the Cpl and Pte level can dismount a LAV easily enough, they can, as well, in set Platoons do D&S very effectively.


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## Lost_Warrior (9 Sep 2005)

> Armoured Reservists are NOT going to be deployed in trade - unless they have Coyote Driver, Gunner or Surv OP.



Well, the guy going has been to Bosnia several times and is Coyote qualified so...


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## Pte_Martin (9 Sep 2005)

31 bde is going from RHFC we got 10 spots for Cpl i heard so far I'm in as long as my security Clearance passes,


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## Devo (10 Sep 2005)

lol... i like that... they would have to be on crack to walk around k-town lol
i'm in ktown right now and its friggn crazy lol.. walking around those streets.. ppl throwing rocks and stuff... yelling at u. begging for stuff..
its interesting.. we did about 2.5 months of specific training for here, but i mean all training u do is potential work up right, it all gives u better insight. 
better be getting some FIBUA training in there.. most important training to have...
well to all u guys/gals back in canada
take er easy


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## jmackenzie_15 (10 Sep 2005)

The only thing our unit has mainly been doing in the last year has been FIBUA....

im just curious as to how the work up training is run.

A year in gagetown... interesting.


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## ImanIdiot (11 Sep 2005)

is it possible that part of the work up training is done within your unit?


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## jmackenzie_15 (11 Sep 2005)

What were told was that it was 1 year, in gagetown - then 6 months in afghanistan.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Sep 2005)

Why don't we wait until something specific come out. IE: Detailing exactly what the plan is, instead of everyone trying to post what they think it's going to be.

When you've got a piece of paper in your hand saying " Johnny's going to do................... then you can post about it. Until then, try "Radio Silence".


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## Franko (11 Sep 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> Well, the guy going has been to Bosnia several times and is Coyote qualified so...



Hate to burst anyone's bubble who is R011.   :

There will not be any reservists crewing Coyote or LAV on any of these tours for quite some time. If your buddy says he will.....

Someone lied to him, or he's been smoking up.

Regards


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## RCA (11 Sep 2005)

TF 1-06 is deploying in Feb with the workup trg running from Sept to Jan, at least for 1 RCHA. So figure it out from there. The Artillery will be deploying 1 Battery/TF, with two guns dets being reservists, so if you are a R021, you also have a chance to being employed in trade.


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## jmackenzie_15 (11 Sep 2005)

I have no idea specifically what we would be doing over there... its a rifle company being deployed (supposedly) so I guess it could be anything.

No doubt ill hear more about it later on this month.... theyre supposed to be taking names before the end of it.


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## Lost_Warrior (11 Sep 2005)

> Hate to burst anyone's bubble who is R011.   Roll Eyes
> 
> There will not be any reservists crewing Coyote or LAV on any of these tours for quite some time. If your buddy says he will.....
> 
> ...



No one is "smoking" anything...  :

Our Ops Warrant asked us at the end of the last training year who ever wanted to go on tour, to go see him because there was an Afghanistan tour coming up.  He said the work up training is 11 months and the tour is 6 months.

One of my buddies is supposed to be leaving some time this year to start his work up training.

We also have another Mcpl currently doing work up training for Afghanistan.  He's tasked as a G-Wagon driver.

Also, my buddy never said he was going to be in a crew for any vehicle.  All he said was he is leaving for his work up training some time this year.


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## KevinB (11 Sep 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> We also have another Mcpl currently doing work up training for Afghanistan.   He's tasked as a G-Wagon driver.



Hence NOT employed in trade.

Frankly I cant see reservist R021's crewing the new 155mm Towed M777.  1 RCHA has not gone anywhere as a unit since 92 Cyprus, they sent a few over in '02 to do FSCC stuff in the 3VP Btl Gp.  It would be a big slap in the face for the Shilo gunners to take reservists.

* Guys I am NOT reserve bashing I once was one (albiet over 11 years ago).  Try to look a realities of life - the regs at the cbt arm line serial level do not need augmentation, so why attempt to force reservists into job that are already occupied - it is a waste of money to displace a reg solider and have him stay in Edmonton, Petawawa, Valcartier, Gagetown mopping floors while a reservist goes overseas in his stead.  Add in the extra $ to bring the reserves up to regular force capability (this is a generalization -as there are lot of good reserve soldiers, but by and large a significant training gap exisits)
 I know a few pointed out their units have done FIBUA ex's over a few months - but I would bet none have done month ex's with JTF instructor cadre in life fire killhouse precision house clearing.

IF Afghan ramps up into early 90's type multiple Btl Gp deployments back to back to back to back - and regular units start to eperience burn out - then yes greatly augmented reserve contributor is necessary.


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## Lost_Warrior (11 Sep 2005)

> Hence NOT employed in trade.



I never said he WAS being employed in trade.  I was just showing the fact that it's not JUST 031 Reservists going to A-Stan.

But that aside, I see your point.  However, by giving these Reservists the spots overseas, it gives them a lot of good knowledgeand experience they can never learn on weekend exercises.  This kind of knowledge and experience can then be employed and passed on back at the unit.   

In a way, I look at this not as taking positions away from a few very capable reg force members, and rather allowing Reservists to get more in theatre experience and knowledge, hence increasing the capability of the Reserve force.


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## Pte. Bloggins (11 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> From my understanding the ONLY 0 trades to be employed in trade are the R031's.
> 
> I gather R sigs, clerks etc may have positions (don't quote me)



Yes, reserve sigs are currently employed in trade in Afghanistan.


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## jmackenzie_15 (11 Sep 2005)

"But that aside, I see your point.  However, by giving these Reservists the spots overseas, it gives them a lot of good knowledge and experience they can never learn on weekend exercises.  This kind of knowledge and experience can then be employed and passed on back at the unit."


Thats my main reason for wanting to go.... 

but again, can anyone answer my question about what the work up training is like?


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## KevinB (11 Sep 2005)

AKKK (return of Bill the Cat)

 Okay, so you want to go to bring experience back to the reserve unit?
Tell you what - join the regs, get our aftre 3 years and take that experience with you.


jmackenzie, - work up will depend upon what job your filling.
 If its an 031 - it will involve lots of fun stuff, but also dependant upon the unit running it. 
 If its a R069 Trench Wench role - you might do a lot of driving and getting coffee


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## jmackenzie_15 (11 Sep 2005)

im R031...

i mean like... is it an 8-5 , monday - friday type of deal? Or is it run like a course or something..... 

where would we live the entire time, is another thing im curious about.... M5 ? lol.

Its 2RCR running it I think.


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## Lost_Warrior (12 Sep 2005)

> Okay, so you want to go to bring experience back to the reserve unit?
> Tell you what - join the regs, get our aftre 3 years and take that experience with you.



Or he can stay in the reserves and go on tour...  :

You dont have to join the regs to gain that overseas experience.  I know plenty of reservists who have been on many tours.  They're doing just fine.


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## KevinB (12 Sep 2005)

Lost.
 I did my first tour as  reservist - thanks for the lecture.  

PLEASE READ.

 CURRENTLY the regular force combat arms do not need any reserve augmentation.
We have before and we may need it again, but currently we do not.

So there is ZERO valid reasons to take reservists in that capacity.  The fact you want a shiny is not a valid reason.


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## Jarnhamar (12 Sep 2005)

It always gets mentioned how reserves going overseas with the reg force bring back a lot of experience that they can pass on.

I agree they do bring back a lot of experience but passing it on isn't that easy.  First of all it's hard for privates cporporals and sometimes even sgt's to really pass this informaton on and change how a regiment operates.

Anyone who has worked with the reserves and regular force knows that they are two different monsters. Sometimes very different. They just don't do things the same way.  It's hard to take experience from the regular force and apply it effectively to the reserves.

Junior leaders learn a lot and pass on a lot to new soldiers and those new soldiers remember it until they work for someone else who simply tells them to do it a different way.

Case in point.
Working with the reserves I was always taught while on a partol, alternate your arcs. One rifleman points right, one points left.
The regular force said this was wrong. Right handed shooters hardly get enough instinctive shooting time with the rifle in their right hands, their not going to hit shit with the rifle in their left hand. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Try bringing that experience learned from overseas back to the reserves. I've seen warrant officers tell sargeants to basically shut the fuck up when the sgt tried to point this out.

Sorry for going a little off topic.
Yes reserves learn a lot about the reg force over sea's but applying it to the reserves is a whole different story.
basically you learn to do it the right way but still have to do it the wrong way.


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## Haggis (12 Sep 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> It always gets mentioned how reserves going overseas with the reg force bring back a lot of experience that they can pass on.
> 
> I agree they do bring back a lot of experience but passing it on isn't that easy.   First of all it's hard for privates cporporals and sometimes even sgt's to really pass this informaton on and change how a regiment operates.
> ....
> ...



Until the senior Army Reserve soldiers, particularly those that teach in the Reserve system get some "real world" experience of thier own, the _Old Way_ will always be the _Right Way_.   Thankfully this is happening in a limited way.   As you know, aside from ex-Regs, the number of senior leaders in the Army Reserve world with "real" experience is quite small. 

The Naval Reserve, however, has bags of experience thanks, in part, to the crewing of the Maritime Costal Defence Vessels with almost 100% Reservists. Why we can't transfer that mindset to the Army Reserve is beyond me.   Yes, Kandahar is dangerous and I don't agree that Reservists (now) are suitable for deployment as formed sub units (yet) but I'd argue that the North Atlantic in winter is just as bad a$$ a workplace as the streets of Kandahar.



			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> CURRENTLY the regular force combat arms do not need any reserve augmentation.
> We have before and we may need it again, but currently we do not.
> 
> So there is ZERO valid reasons to take reservists in that capacity.



Agreed, but the grown ups have decided that they're gonna go.   Why?   Because the Reserve Pte/Cpl who deploys with you now may well be the MCpl/Sgt/Lt who leads more Reservists "over there" in 2-5 years time. 

I read a quote recently, something like "Experience is the one thing you don't get until right after you need it."
You and the others on your tour can fix that by taking the Reservists, screening and training them as you would your own troops, employing them to thier full capacity and encouraging them to do the same when they go home.   That way, in five years, when you're near to getting your Afghan citizenship 'cause you've been there so many times, you can safely watch capable, confident and experienced Reservists go in your place while you read the Maple Leaf on the next Roto 0.

... and I wasn't lecturing... ;D


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## KevinB (13 Sep 2005)

Haggis - I dont trust half our troops with weapons as it is.

 I am all for competitive selection for tours based on capability.  Problem is it is VERY time and resource intensive.

TMS Training / Work up is not enough to get troops switched on to the realities of life.  At least in a Reg Bn you have them for ex's and you can blacklist some of your deadwood prior to a Warning Order.  Unfortunately then you run out of troops...

I have seen how some Experience reserve NCO's run their PL.  A good buddy of mine (then a res Sgt) ended up being the defacto Pl WO since the (res) WO was a POS and was busy entertaining the ladies of the camp.  Unfortunately when you push reservists into a postition that effective removes regulars from a tour they go under the microscope.

I'm all for selective intergration  - just don't force a quota or complete units (or subunits) down the throats and leave reg guys at home.

True Story - US enters Iraq - meanwhile Cbt Spt Coy 1VP is sweeping and mopping Hangar 2 in Edmonton for the Roto 11 Reserve Company farewell parade...  We had a bunch of experience Cpl/Cpl's get pout after that - why we saw our allied doing the job, while we got to sit at home and watch our jobs filled...

The question is not whether or not reserves can do the job individually - but Why are fit regs sidelined for them?

IF the CF was looking at going to Iraq or another hotspot - yeah we would likely be tossing away the lesser tour positions to reservists, but currently we have a very young cbt arms field and tons of folk getting out due to boredom and disillusionment - C Coy 1VP is losing 46 pers in the next few months, new troops come in and they want tours.

 1VP has not had a unit tour since Kosovo in 99
 2VP since Roto 7
 3VP had two coys and a mixed Cbt spt Coy in 2002.

When you add in the releases and postings...

 Guys are chomping for action - my attitude is if reservists want tours they should take a 3 year BE


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Guys are chomping for action - my attitude is if reservists want tours they should take a 3 year BE



That's brilliant.

And when the reservist comes back to his regular job after three years - well, he probably won't have it any more, will he?  We have no job protection legislation in place.

We also have retention problems in the reserves as it is.  So taking away deployability unless you - divorce your wife, sell your dog, quit your job and give up your civvie pension and career - isn't exactly going to entice anyone.

I get the feeling you don't have the first clue why Canada even has a Reserve force.  Doubtless some Regulars would prefer it that way, but luckily they're not the ones making the big decisions.  Reservists WILL be employed increasingly on overseas missions; I suspect it is only a matter of time before they start deploying as formed units.  

Isn't that what this whole "task force" concept is all about?  Interchangeability between company/squadron/battery sized units into/out of mission-based task forces?


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## KevinB (13 Sep 2005)

[quote author=Michael Dorosh]I suspect it is only a matter of time before they start deploying as formed units.   
[/quote]

 Look back at what you just said.

You really think you will find a unit of reservists that will under go a 11 month work up for a tour - a 6 month tour and then a month or two return phase?

 Roto 11's D Coy RAPED LFWA of reservists to go on tour and needed regular cadre to deploy to Bosnia in the twilight of the tour.

Retention issues in the reserves are not an immediate operational issue.  Looking at 3VP's deployment to Afghan shows that retention in the regs can be.


and the TF system is the WORSE piece of garbage foisted upon the Army - defeading it is criminal, and promoting it is inconcievable.


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## gate_guard (13 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> True Story - US enters Iraq - meanwhile Cbt Spt Coy 1VP is sweeping and mopping Hangar 2 in Edmonton for the Roto 11 Reserve Company farewell parade...



Sorry Kev,
I do understand that a lot of A Coy guys were po'd, I would be if I were them but with regards to the farewell dismissal...D Coy swept out the hangar with a few of your no hooks for moral support. Don't blame the mo though, blame the MAN!

On a side note, I do know quite a few reservists who would sign up for a year and a half contract. They see the discontent in the regs with regards to not being deployed. Why sign up for the regs for 3 years and maybe get a tour when you can stay a reservist, wait for a tour, and essentially get a guaranteed deployment (of course with exceptions). Fair to the regs? No, but can you blame the average reservist for taking advantage of a system that will pay a reg soldier to stay at home while a reservist deploys? The problem is the higher ups not having a clear idea of how the use reservists and regs properly.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Look back at what you just said.
> 
> You really think you will find a unit of reservists that will under go a 11 month work up for a tour - a 6 month tour and then a month or two return phase?
> 
> ...



I guess I have some Searching to do in order to find out your objections to the TF system.  *shrugs*  Seems to be the way of the world these days.  Better than training to fight World War Three on the North German Plain.

Why does an issue need to be an immediate operational issue to be important?  I think it has long term effects that will potentially become operational issues.   If you don't think a shortage of trained, experienced reservists has the potential to be an operational issue at some point in the future, then disband the reserves altogether.

For the first time since Confederation, Reservists are enjoying equitable pay, scales of equipment, and opportunities for operational employment.  I'll stop short of saying equitable training.  I think dedicated reservists would be happy to take 18 months off for tours - and civvie employers would find it more palatable than a 3 year BE, especially if the BE offers no guarantee of "important" (in the perspective of a civvie employer) work.


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## KevinB (13 Sep 2005)

We swept and mopped the bird shit out a day before the parade...


 I agree - it is a poor sit both ways.

WRT TF1-06 it is my understanding they could not generate much more than 2 Platoons of reservists for the 18months they required, out of 41 Bde...
   

 In '07 you have the LdSH(RC) 2VP and several other org's in LFWA lookign for tours - add in the RCR Bn's the R22eR, the RCD's 12 Rubber Boot and the Guns - plus the CER folks...

 It is going to be hard to make those troops swallow a reserve deployment - if at all possible.

Economically its much smarter to pay the regs to do it...

 Heck IF I where High Overlord - I'd have Brigades in Iraq and Afghan and use reservists fully as well - but my budget for defence would be about 10x as much.   I'd go to 1 year tours as well.   


Michael,

 I've been bitching at the TF stuff since Roto 2 started training.  I would say that previous history of the reserves is no longer relevant in todays conflicts, they dont get the kit or training on it to be relevant in the grand scheme


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## RCA (13 Sep 2005)

I can't talk to the infantry but I can comment on the artillery. I don't think the Reg F is to the point where they are self-sufficient in force generating the TFs and do and always will require reserve augmentation. As to a slap in the face for Reservists displacing Regs, I don't think so, for one its not happening, and two, aren't we all the same army? Returning gunners may or may not pass on the knowledge, but they do come back as better gunner, broadening the depth of experience in their units.
   It makes more sense augmenting a Battery with two guns then cannibalizing the other two to bring A Battery to bring it up to strength, because 1 RCHA will just have to do it again for its next TF. Besides that, all LFWA TF (1-07? & 3-08) will have Batterys attached so there will be deployments for both B and C Battery.
   As for Reserve gun Dets for the 155, I don't see a problem. Being a det mbr is a quick conversion, and this time around, all A Battery gunners, Reg or Reserve are in the same boat, as this is a new system. As well, being a   Det Comd is well within a Reserve MBdr/Sgt's capabilities, and the same thing again, the #1 all in the same boat converting to   anew weapon system. The pre-deployment trg (BTE 05) will integrate the Reserve Dets into the Battery.


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## Blakey (13 Sep 2005)

> and the TF system is the WORSE piece of garbage foisted upon the Army - defeading it is criminal, and promoting it is inconcievable.


BRAVO!, i agree 110 %!.
With this new TF crap in place, its the same old same old, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Can anyone tell me (since the inception of the TF garbage) the last time a unit deployed *without* having to rape or receive augmenties from another BN???, and guess what, whatever unit suplies the augmenties is now down x number of soldiers for when *they* are in the breach. Easy solution...BUILD UP THE DAMN BN'S to 4 rifle coy's w/ the cbt sp and adm, have all the other supporting arms up to strength, go back to the BG deployments, and stop raping the other units!. For god sakes, it sure would be a morale booster for a young ( 3-4 year Pte/ Cpl) soldier to at least get on a tour and do what he *was trained to do* before he gets his CD.
But alas all the above recommendations require 3 things:
1.MONEY
2.MORE SOLDIERS AND
3.THE WEARWITHALL TO FIX A BROKEN WHEEL, NOT JUST OIL IT AND PUT IT BACK ON THE BIKE!
Or they could keep this wonderful little plan and keep draggin TF's out of there arses...


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## Scoobie Newbie (13 Sep 2005)

Hey with this new system our BN can send both rifle coy's (albet different tours) and still go again in 2008.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (14 Sep 2005)

> I don't think the Reg F is to the point where they are self-sufficient in force generating the TFs and do and always will require reserve augmentation. As to a slap in the face for Reservists displacing Regs, I don't think so, for one its not happening, and two, aren't we all the same army?



Had to wade in with a quick burst.  First, as far as I am concerned there is very little _operational _ requirement to deploy Reservists on our current missions.  We are going to great lengths to do so for "other reasons".  I'll leave it up to everyone's vivid imagination to determine what those reasons are - I've expressed my opinion on the rationale for it in other threads.

Second, Reservists have, on other missions, deliberately displaced Regulars on tours for what I would argue are entirely "political" reasons.  KevinB has used Roto 11 as an example and I agree completely.

I will argue until I am blue in the face that PRes sub-unit deployments are not operationally effective nor are they warranted in the current resource and operational climate.  Moreover, I cannot see, under any circumstance, the CF having the capability to deploy PRes units on tours - any tour - without massive changes to the manner in which we train and force generate.  The accompanying angst only serves to seriously handicap the force generation process.

I'm tired and will leave my critique of the TF "plug and play"  : system for another day.  It isn't really relevant to this thread anyway.

My 2 cents...

Teddy


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## Britney Spears (14 Sep 2005)

Seeing as the majority of Jr. Ranks in the reserves are more concerned with going SOMEWHERE, regardless of who with, what do you think of the old model of individual augmentees?


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## GO!!! (14 Sep 2005)

The displacing of Reg Force members with reservists is a travesty, and not operationally required. Furthermore, the idea that the reserves even could be deployed as formed units seems a little iffy to me. 

Some units in LFWA are unable to even raise a Platoon of reservists for a BTE, either as the trg audience or support, yet when the opportunity to deploy arises, there are dozens of volunteers - from the same unit. How is it that there is enough time to be deployed, and a willingness to "sell your dog, divorce your wife" : for a tour, but not to do something as simple as a few platoon attacks on the may long weekend? Where is the "commitment" that all of these devoted reservists have then? The same logic applies to percieved "gucci" courses like BMO, Para, Recce etc. The eddies will beat down your door to get on one, but when they are given the opportunity to do a full kit double door mass night into Wx, theres not a windmill to be seen - even if they have an "airborne platoon".

I agree with Kev and Teddy that the reservists that do deploy are there for no good operational reason, other than that tours are somehow seen as some sort of operational buffet, where everyone deserves a taste. 

Also, the idea that somehow reservists are "sacrificing" so much to go on tours is BS. If it's such a sacrifice, don't go. There are tons of reg force guys dying to get overseas.

While the regs might get tapped providing enough troops for A-stan in the future, and require reservists then, let's cross that bridge when we come to it. The LACK of opportunity to deply is the major reason most reg force Ptes get out after their first contract, and alot more resources are put into training a regular than a part timer.

Economically speaking, reservists are cheap, and relatively easy to train. Reg force soldiers are expensive, consuming pay, pensions, benefits and expensive training ALL the time. Why would the army use the militia if they have a large pool of untapped resources that are already bought and paid for? Thats a waste of already limited resources.

Finally. The army is supposed to grow by five thousand souls in the next few years. Where is the incentive to join the regs if reservists are permitted to take advantage of the benefits of being a civvy, and then go overseas to boot?


----------



## Marauder (14 Sep 2005)

> Seeing as the majority of Jr. Ranks in the reserves are more concerned with going SOMEWHERE, regardless of who with, what do you think of the old model of individual augmentees?



Gee, how could a guy turn down an offer to spend a year being subjected to attitudes like...



> Had to wade in with a quick burst.   First, as far as I am concerned there is very little operational requirement to deploy Reservists on our current missions.   We are going to great lengths to do so for "other reasons".   I'll leave it up to everyone's vivid imagination to determine what those reasons are



not to mention...



> The displacing of Reg Force members with reservists is a travesty, and not operationally required. Furthermore, the idea that the reserves even could be deployed as formed units seems a little iffy to me.



Of course, I'm not going to say that a guy would turn down a tour simply because he has to deal with anyone's hard core 1%ers. I'm sure there are plenty of quick picks out there that could give you a better education on that.


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## Britney Spears (14 Sep 2005)

> Gee, how could a guy turn down an offer to spend a year being subjected to attitudes like...



Well he was talking about reserve SUB UNITS, not reservists as a whole. Hence my question. The sub unit thing is a relatively new phenomenon, as I understand.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Sep 2005)

I still remember showing up for roto 8 palladium and the reg force platoon I was augmenting had 9 reg soldiers.

There may not be a requirement in afghanastan for reserves to work along side regular force infantry sections, but what happens when the time does come?

As far as Im concerned, reserves deploy because the higher ups decided they will have positions overseas.

We hear about how the regular force is over taxed and over worked. We see interviews of soldiers saying they are overworked.
So we augment more reserves and, reserves are stealing positions?

I'm sorry I've seen a lot of reg force soldiers who would bend over backwards to get off going on a tour. Problems with their wives problems , with their girlfriends, sickness in the family, you name it.   Seena   guy lie about his parents getting in a car accident.

Reserves who will quit theirh full time job or quit school to go on tour for reasons of their own.

Whats the big fucking deal?


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## Michael Dorosh (14 Sep 2005)

The Army doesn't exist to go on operational tours in the next six months.  It exists as a resource to be drawn on in perpetuity.  It is only as good as the experience it gets, regular and reserve both, and the real test of the Army is not in what it does in the next six months, but in how it will respond when we have a true crisis.  Thank God we haven't had one since 1953, and let's hope we never have another one.  But that's not the point.  

Bleating about how the Reserves don't deserve this or how much they sacrifice that really belies the main issue - if the nation had to go to a full scale war (or if we suddenly had one within our borders) in 6 month's time, how prepared would we be?  Whom would we draw on to form the cadre of a large scale field force?  Surely that is one of our mandates.

If not - if we're truly not even thinking about mobilization, then why have a Reserve Force at all?  According to GO et al there are more than enough Regulars in the country to fulfil all the short term operational requirements, so why pay the Saturday and Sunday crowd just to take food out of the mouths of Regular soldiers?  

I'm thinking a few posters here aren't really looking past the end of their own noses at this one.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (14 Sep 2005)

> Well he was talking about reserve SUB UNITS, not reservists as a whole. Hence my question. The sub unit thing is a relatively new phenomenon, as I understand.



Exactly, Britney.   Sub-units (and units) came up in this discussion, hence my point.   It IS a new thing.   We deployed two (IIRC) coys on OP SNOWGOOSE before my time, but only really got back into it with Roto 11 PALLADIUM, which I have expounded upon in other threads.

I believe that there will always be a place for individual augmentees.   That's a different requirement entirely.   Individual augmentees do not overly strain the system and, in some instances, can help to alleviate operational problems.   For instance, most of the UNMO positions are now going to PRes personnel rather than strip a unit of its command structure.   People jump at these opportunities to do some real solid soldiering - and the theatre is irrelevant.


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## GO!!! (14 Sep 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> 1) I still remember showing up for roto 8 palladium and the reg force platoon I was augmenting had 9 reg soldiers.
> 
> 2) There may not be a requirement in afghanastan for reserves to work along side regular force infantry sections, but what happens when the time does come?
> 
> ...



1) The time came, and not even necessarily. Bosnia was winding down, so why not let the reserves get a few people in - I'm not saying the reserves shoul'dnt deploy at all, just that they should only be used to individually back fill reg force units IF that unit is understrength.

2) Then we can do that. By then the TMS trg will be a little more finely tuned, and the milita mbrs will be able to get a full trg cycle in before they deploy. But not now, when you have reg F soldiers ready to deply on 1-3 months of trg,  and militia in 6-12. Why would you spend the extra $$ to train someone when you have a superior product ready to go NOW?

3) THERE IS NO TIRED ARMY. This is a myth foisted upon us by Ottawa. This may have been the case five yrs ago, but the No.1 reason reg force infanteers quit today is a LACK of opportunity to deploy. 

And finally, there are lying, lazy POS in every unit/trade. If you want to start talking about all of the fuc*** up things I've seen the militia do, this could get ugly, so lets leave the ancdotal evidence out OK?


----------



## Britney Spears (14 Sep 2005)

> 3) THERE IS NO TIRED ARMY. This is a myth foisted upon us by Ottawa. This may have been the case five yrs ago, but the No.1 reason reg force infanteers quit today is a LACK of opportunity to deploy.



GO, I had alluded somewhat to this in a previous thread <a href=http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2276.345.html>here</a>, where I was sternly corrected by 2 Cdo, to wit: 





> Britney, I qualify my statements by the fact that I am serving in the Forces and I have been posted to both "Line Battalions" and am now presently with a Service Support unit. In the Battalions I have rarely had a full section (unless getting ready to deploy), in fact in some cases I've had as few as 3 total troops in a 10 man infantry section! This, sadly is usually the norm for an infantry battalion.
> Presently I am employed with a service support unit that has approximately 90% of it's mandated troops. I know this because I conduct ALL their pre-deployment training, thus I know the numbers involved.
> As far as your statement referring to recruitment goals, this is not the same as numbers in the units. Borden alone, mainly a service support training facility has HUNDREDS of young potential recruits sitting around waiting, sometimes for a few YEARS, for a course start date. So "as far as you know" maybe you can explain where you come up with your info, because I live with my info every day!
> Have a nice day.




Since I had no evidence to back up my assertion other than anecdotal conversations, I could only take his word for it

what say you to this?


----------



## KevinB (14 Sep 2005)

FWIW,

IF they got rid of the plug and play TF idea - we would be able to plug individual reservists into roles quite easily.


Look at TF1-06  1VP has 2 Coy's and a Coy from 2VP that are attached, as well as a Recce Pl (and more?) from 3R22eR.
 Plus two D&S Platoons from 41Bde (Mirage and K Towns Gate Guard)

Okay for they employed two Platoons.

If this was an "old school" Bn Btl Grp.

 B Coy 1VP would be deploying and as a result A-B-C Coys would be understrength, requiring reservists augmentees.  Recce PL 1VP woudl be deploying not left hanging in the breeze wondering if its going or not.
 I woudl suggest that reserve augmentees into a 1VP Btl Grp would be taken with a better mind set than seperate units and plug and playing and leaving some of 1VP pers behind (shades of Roto11)


----------



## Jarnhamar (14 Sep 2005)

> But not now, when you have reg F soldiers ready to deply on 1-3 months of trg,   and militia in 6-12. Why would you spend the extra $$ to train someone when you have a superior product ready to go NOW?



Pre-Pre work up training
Pre work up training and
work up training 'enjoyed' by the reserves is seriously overdone.   You can easily compress it all down within the 1-3 month time period.

Infact, Didn't the reserves augmenting roto 0 to afghanastan get the rushed training?   I remember the reserves going on roto zero got the word/arrived AFTER those of us going to bosnia and they left for afghanastan before us.   If I remember correctly they had a few months of work up and near a month of leave.

Theres no reason why reserves augmenting the regular force (aside from the flinsh factor) should need 6-12 months of catch up training.
All you need to do is augment with reserves who are not fresh off their recruit training.



> just that they should only be used to individually back fill reg force units IF that unit is understrength.



Agreed. Some people will argue the regular force is not understrength, others will.



> And finally, there are lying, lazy POS in every unit/trade. If you want to start talking about all of the fuc*** up things I've seen the militia do, this could get ugly, so lets leave the ancdotal evidence out OK?



Yes because we need to have this turned into a regular force vs reserve stupidity contest and have yet another interesting thread locked up.


----------



## KevinB (14 Sep 2005)

Ghost,  None of the reserves on Athena or Apollo where employed in trade.
  A CIMIC driver requires a lot less training than a Cbt Arms soldier - as such the Patricia's who went over as CIMIC driver two where brand new privates who had about 2 months in BN (a very stupid thing to do) before pre training - and they did not have much as far as pre training just sitting in a G Wagon or Iltis or attending culture lessons.  No shooting stuff etc.


 Secondly IF you compress a reserve training schedule, into the reg schedule, you've lost a lot of the selection process unless you started with x2 pers at the beginning of it.  Ans then your doing selcetion during TMS trg where leaders should be absorbing the TMS not having to do their selection.


----------



## GO!!! (14 Sep 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> GO, I had alluded somewhat to this in a previous thread <a href=http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2276.345.html>here</a>, where I was sternly corrected by 2 Cdo, to wit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fact: 3VP HAD 3 full strength rifle coys last year, and a full strength cbt support.
Fact: The no. one reason the vast majority of new Pte's get out is that there are no opportunities to deploy, and when there are, very small numbers are sent, often with augmentees from the militia.

While I acknowledge that 2 Cdo time in the Bns may have seen a large number of deployments, and burn out, my generation is rusting out more than burning out. I did three workup trainings in 2004, and was undeployed as the commitment was cut once, then tasked to another unit, then reservists were picked up, in addition to a bunch of Belgians (who I hear did a great job).

One Pte put out some feelers at the militia unit in his home town and was told that he could probably get on a tour if he showed up soon. He got out, and was subsequently deployed, while the rest of his old unit sat in Wx and did yet another exercise. 

The prevalent attitude in my unit seems to be "great we're trained, when do we go" answer: "2007" - maybe.

Basically, people quit the regs because of garrison routine, not because of op tempo. The giving of deployment positions to reservists is compunding this problem.


----------



## KevinB (14 Sep 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Basically, people quit the regs because of garrison routine, not because of op tempo. The giving of deployment positions to reservists is compunding this problem.



110%

and for those who want to toss the BS flag - look at the VP NCO's who post here and I think you will see that as a theme.

I am sure the Royals (eh MG34?) and R22eR (Jungle?) will echo this as well.


Even Roto11 in Bosnia troops wanted to go -- not cause they had to vote in the next Bosnian election (having enough time for deemed citizenship over there) but to get away from Garrison.

 The only combat arms that seem to have legitimate complaint are the Armoured and Engineers and talking to them they seem wanting to pop back into the breach.


We have guys seriosuly looking into private contractor gigs in Iraq, so we can go do the job.

 The job aint in Canada - we are a country at war and we want to serve.


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## Acorn (17 Sep 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Pre-Pre work up training
> Pre work up training and
> work up training 'enjoyed' by the reserves is seriously overdone.   You can easily compress it all down within the 1-3 month time period.



1-3 months work-up trg for Regs is (or should be) "seriously overdone." Of course, we no longer have formed units, so the "work-ups" are necessary. It would also help if we "trained as we fight" but that's another thread.

Plug-and-play has made long pre-deployment trg necessary. If we had the formed units of the '80s, and had them trained as 4 Bde was (with artillery, engineer and armour sub-units routinely working with the same infantry unit) they could be augmented by individual reservists with little work-up.

As has been mentioned, there is little need for PRes augmentees to the reg force infantry, and formed sub-units are political (as are sub-sub-units). There is need in many combat support and CSS trades for individual augmentation though, but that ain't sexy enough for Res2000, is it?

Acorn


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## little jim (17 Sep 2005)

Given that most people here seem to think that there is too much 'tail' on current deployments I was wondering, in light of what goes on in A-stan and Iraq; if there was any move to use reserve infantry types to fill out the support trades - like co-drivers and such.

I think it would help a lot with force protection - like being able to deploy an RRB without having to task riflemen from the Inf Coys cause you already have enough of them within the sig org...

Leave the actual formed sub-units to the regs (make everyone here happy) and then give the support guys some actual built in protection.  I am expecting to get flamed as it would prob make the support elm larger but I thought it was a good idea.  Hence the post.

Guy with a naked man on his cap badge.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (17 Sep 2005)

Actually I think that there needs to be more 031 tasked out to the support trades, ie convoy detail, RRB protection etc.


----------



## Britney Spears (17 Sep 2005)

little jim said:
			
		

> Given that most people here seem to think that there is too much 'tail' on current deployments I was wondering, in light of what goes on in A-stan and Iraq; if there was any move to use reserve infantry types to fill out the support trades - like co-drivers and such.
> 
> I think it would help a lot with force protection - like being able to deploy an RRB without having to task riflemen from the Inf Coys cause you already have enough of them within the sig org...
> 
> ...



If I'm not mistaken that role would be handled by D&S plt. So we're already there.


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## KevinB (17 Sep 2005)

031 are attached to certain support sites for force protection.
 They where inserted into the TO&E for the Mission. -- They did not come for D&S.


Personally I think the time has come to make the tail responsible for its own force protection --allowing the teeth to go out and bite.


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## ThatsLife (18 Sep 2005)

Well i'll be in the reserves in a few months (waiting for the call for my tests and then need to do basic and what not). Is there a possibility for new recruits to go to Afghanistan in 2007, or has the maximum amount of troops been met already? (if there is, i'm some-what military illiterate, so forgive me if my question sounded vague.)

I would surely like to go on this tour.


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## 1feral1 (18 Sep 2005)

Be careful what you wish for.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## Franko (18 Sep 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Be careful what you wish for.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wes



Seeing as someone tried to kill 8 of my buddies a couple of days ago....including my brother in-law.

It's a bit different being over here...knowing someone wants to kill you.

*ThatsLife*..... relax. There will be plenty of time to go on tour, if you get through the pre deployment....TMST training.

You'll get here and wonder why you ever wanted to come to this shyte hole.

 :

Regards


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## PAMWE (25 Sep 2005)

It's hard to imagine people arguing as to who "gets" to go on tour... One day very soon we may all get to go on tour, Reserve and Regular.  Some of us will not be returning, this I guarantee.  Canada's involvement ina post 911 world is just beginning.  Try and remember we are all part of the same family.


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## GO!!! (25 Sep 2005)

PAMWE said:
			
		

> It's hard to imagine people arguing as to who "gets" to go on tour... One day very soon we may all get to go on tour, Reserve and Regular.   Some of us will not be returning, this I guarantee.   Canada's involvement ina post 911 world is just beginning.   Try and remember we are all part of the same family.



Do you have anything to contribute to this thread or just more sycophantic babbling? If you have some info that would educate us all as to the upcoming commitment you seem to "know" is coming - spit it out!


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## MPIKE (26 Sep 2005)

I don't see a sycophant here but more of suggestion for someone to lose their chip.


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## GO!!! (26 Sep 2005)

<Posting loaded>

Forgive me, but I have already been on tour, enjoyed it, and want to go again - especially seeing as it IS MY JOB! 

If anger at watching others who have committed a fraction of the time and effort that I have be deployed due to political considerations and a sense of "inclusiveness" is considered a "chip" theres a couple of bags up there - SO PI$$ OFF!


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## KevinB (26 Sep 2005)

Never post drunk...  ;D


 PAMWE - too fuzzy In both senses - too warm and cheery and secondly too blurry and undecipherable.


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## a_beautiful_tragedy (26 Sep 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Do you have anything to contribute to this thread or just more sycophantic babbling? If you have some info that would educate us all as to the upcoming commitment you seem to "know" is coming - spit it out!



that 2 month deployment was supposed to be for 36 brig, it was only for security for like ammo or something like that in kabul, but it was cancelled and the deployment was giving to units out west, i also heard that the other reserve deployment is an 18 month contract which consists of 1 year work up plus 6 month tour for afghanistan or possibly africa...but then again can you believe anything your higher ups say JUST to make you stay in the mo ?


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## Michael OLeary (26 Sep 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> <Posting loaded>
> 
> Forgive me, but I have already been on tour, enjoyed it, and want to go again - especially seeing as it IS MY JOB!
> 
> If anger at watching others who have committed a fraction of the time and effort that I have be deployed due to political considerations and a sense of "inclusiveness" is considered a "chip" theres a couple of bags up there - SO PI$$ OFF!




Loaded, perhaps, and able to respond to your own postings in advance.




			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> Do you have anything to contribute to this thread or just more sycophantic babbling?



GO!!, is it too bad you can't get past your prjeuduces and contribute to this board at a level that your self-proclaimed levels of experience and capability indicate that you should be able to achieve.

Leadership by example also works in the virtual world.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (26 Sep 2005)

a_beautiful_tragedy said:
			
		

> that 2 month deployment was supposed to be for 36 brig, it was only for security for like ammo or something like that in kabul, but it was cancelled and the deployment was giving to units out west, i also heard that the other reserve deployment is an 18 month contract which consists of 1 year work up plus 6 month tour for afghanistan or possibly africa...but then again can you believe anything your higher ups say JUST to make you stay in the mo ?



Unfortunately, that's the nature of operations.  Operations change constantly, as do operational requirements.  The Government of Canada makes the decisions where we deploy to, not the Army and the entire chain of command is often forced to "react" as a result; there's no conspiracy theory in play here.  If you want a "sure thing", you might want to look at a different line of work...


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Sep 2005)

a_beautiful_tragedy said:
			
		

> that 2 month deployment was supposed to be for 36 brig, it was only for security for like ammo or something like that in kabul, but it was cancelled and the deployment was giving to units out west, i also heard that the other reserve deployment is an 18 month contract which consists of 1 year work up plus 6 month tour for afghanistan or possibly africa...but then again can you believe anything your higher ups say JUST to make you stay in the mo ?



The latter tour you mention may or may not happen, but if not, it won't be for a lack of trying.   Personally, I think it would be a good thing to see Reserve units living up to a broader mandate.   If they can get the job done, why not.

I've posted before and will reiterate - a soldier's duty in the Forces shouldn't be tied to his own individual whims regarding whether or not he "gets" or "has" to go overseas, or wondering what everybody else is up to.   He should be supporting the mission; his own missions and the missions of others.

If there is significant reason to find fault in those other missions, address it via the best means possible - hopefully that is the chain of command.   But that doesn't mean you rock the boat because you're not getting enough personally.   Sour grapes are just unbecoming.


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## a_beautiful_tragedy (27 Sep 2005)

heheh
you are quite right


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## PAMWE (28 Sep 2005)

I'm actually shocked at some of these comments.  Ok, I'll take on this role.  I would suggest that you start reading the news paper.  The Defence Minster of Canada is travelling around warning Canadians that they should be prepared for Canadians coming home in body bags.  Furthermore, it was recently released that Canada will be spending roughly 780 million dollars on transports.  

Honestly, I'm having a hard time believing that your Regiment is not keeping you up to date.

Good Luck


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## Teddy Ruxpin (28 Sep 2005)

Can you start giving us more routine news updates?  I don't get the paper or watch TV... :

One suggestion:  if you're going to post "news", at least get it right.  The DM never once has mentioned "body bags" and the $750m was for the MMEV, not aircraft.  No tranport contracts have been announced whatsoever.

Next?


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## PAMWE (28 Sep 2005)

I didn't say aircraft, and he stated there will be casualties. numptee.


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## ImanIdiot (28 Sep 2005)

oh boy....get in your trenches, people..


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## Teddy Ruxpin (29 Sep 2005)

PAMWE said:
			
		

> I didn't say aircraft, and he stated there will be casualties. numptee.



No, you said "transports", which typically refers to aircraft.   There are no recent contract announcements concerning any form of transport within the CF - ground or air.   Period.

As for the rest, I don't post on this site to engage in juvenille name calling.   I gather from your recent posts that you're a new member of the CF and that you're somewhere in Reserve BMQ-land.   If so, you'd be well advised to rein the invective in a tad and do more reading and learning.   While I might overlook your rudeness and your obvious lack of knowledge, there are others on this forum who might not be so understanding.   As it is, if the quality of your posts are indicative of your other abilities, I wouldn't have you under my command in any operational theatre under any circumstance.

By the way, it's usually "numpty"... ;D


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## Haggis (29 Sep 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> By the way, it's usually "numpty"... ;D



"numptee"     "numpty"   who cares.... neither one passes a Microsoft spell checker.


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## KevinB (29 Sep 2005)

Naw its Numpty.

 PAMWE, you've embarked down a poorly chosen path if you beleive you can engage Teddy on an equal footing in this respect.
Instead of trying to lecture several us on the realities of life in the military maybe you should consider switching to receive...


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## Haggis (29 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Naw its Numpty.



I've also seen it spelled "Numphtee" by a friend in the PAff branch.... and we all know that their grammar and spelling are gooder than ours.

*PAMWE*:  You've just received good advice.  Heed it, lest you become regarded as a Numpty/Numptee/Numphty.


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## MPIKE (29 Sep 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> PAMWE, you've embarked down a poorly chosen path if you beleive you can engage Teddy on an equal footing in this respect.
> Instead of trying to lecture several us on the realities of life in the military maybe you should consider switching to receive...


(shakes head) Yes after that, I am regretting my earlier post in PAM's favour. :-[

Perhaps while PAM is reflecting on his/her poor choice of words PAM's profile could be expanded too?.


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## PAMWE (29 Sep 2005)

LOL! Ok, I'll play.  This is the lowest bit of barn yard antics.  Are we really arguing over the word "numptee".  You are right about one thing, I will take the time to answer questions with thought and consideration.  However, I stand by my initial remarks that I am concerned about the lack of knowledge about Canada's new role on this website.  My point was that we shouldn't be arguing over about who "gets" to go because I think we will all have a "chance".  When soldiers start to argue over trivial details, they have too much time on their hands.  

Pamwe Chete!


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## George Wallace (29 Sep 2005)

PAMWE said:
			
		

> .......   However, I stand by my initial remarks that I am concerned about the lack of knowledge about Canada's new role on this website.



Interesting statement, for someone who we must assume has no military background (from Profile info) and doesn't seem to take advice or comments on matters from those who have proven experience.   Your comments could just as easily been created out of thin air.   We have no true perspective of where you are coming from, and will treat you in the appropriate manner that a comment may be presented.

I suppose if you were the CDS, or Deputy Ministe or such, using a pseudonym; we would accept your comments as having more weight.


----------



## KevinB (29 Sep 2005)

The problem that your missing is several of us have been there, and gotten the T shirt as it where.

I dont like to be lectured by some "snot nosed" kid, with a basic understanding of the military.


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## Haggis (29 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I suppose if you were the CDS, or Deputy Minister or such, using a pseudonym; we would accept your comments as having more weight.



George that would be a treat!  Gotta watch PAMWE's future posts for hockey analogies which would expose him as CDS.... ;D


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## Teddy Ruxpin (29 Sep 2005)

Well, we'd better be careful...  

Both the nickname and the signature PAMWE uses are the motto of the old Rhodesian Selous Scouts.  We might have a real, honest-to-God, hardcore, Communist-Terrorist killin', "been thar, done that", SF operator on our hands...  Perhaps he can regale us with stories of jumping from Daks and doing heliborne insertions from Alouette IIIs....  :-\

What was that about BMQ again?  Oh yeah, that's right... :

For my Rhodesian friend:  you do realize, don't you, that several of the people you've been knocking have considerable personal experience in Afghanistan?  Or has that point, made by several posters, been lost on you?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (29 Sep 2005)

MOD NOTE,
PAMWE,
Just to expand on what the bear said, not only are there many posters in this thread with actually time "over there", but some who have actually had a hand in shaping some of those policy's you seem to think that they are ignorant of.

Lets not let this distraction take this thread off topic anymore, please.
Thanks


----------



## a_beautiful_tragedy (4 Oct 2005)

the reserve tour to agfhanistan is a go for sure


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (4 Oct 2005)

...and your confirming information would be?


----------



## LF(CMO) (5 Oct 2005)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ...and your confirming information would be?



 The next deploment for reserves that I'm aware of is Feb 2006 to Afgan as a Canadian will be the Brigadier for the NCE.  SALH and LER are suppling a sizable number for this.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (5 Oct 2005)

This is somewhat incorrect.  

Commander of TF Afghanistan (TF 01-06) will be Col Fraser (Comd 1 CMBG, A/WSE to BGen) - in addition to his duties as Comd MNB(S).  The Canadian TF DComd is slated to be CO SALH (former LdSH LCol - A/WSE to Col), who will run the NCE day to day.  There is no BGen in the NCE.  This is not a "Reserve deployment", but the NCE does indeed contain a substantial number of Reservists in augmentation roles.  41 CBG also has a D&S platoon deploying on the same rotation, unless things have changed in the last 48 hours or so.

It has been argued that the NCE will find itself playing a very limited role, given the significant number of Canadians within the Brigade itself and the "double-hatting" of the TF Comd, but we'll see.


----------



## Franko (5 Oct 2005)

Teddy.....

No names...no pack drill. PERSEC.    

Regards


----------



## PhilB (5 Oct 2005)

For 1-06 there are two reserve D&S Pl, the normal CIMIC/Phsyop/HUMINT drivers etc, the NCE, as well as individual augmentees. There are several reservists augmented into 7Pl C Coy, and apparently there is most likely the need for more, or so the RUMINT goes. 

As for the ongoing discussion, being a reservist going on 1-06 I completely agree with Kev, GO, and the rest. If the reg force can fill the role the reserves have no business taking their jobs. For all of the reservists out there think of it this way. We are always bitching about the need/want for job protection and using the fact that we may lose our jobs as the reason for not participating in training. We are doing the same thing to the reg force. This is their job, they do it full time, they are the most qualified to do that job... Let them!


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## Teddy Ruxpin (5 Oct 2005)

Franko:  Ack.  Col Fraser was publicly announced.  I deliberately didn't include the other name.  ;D

Cheers,

TR


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## Gunner (5 Oct 2005)

> As for the ongoing discussion, being a reservist going on 1-06 I completely agree with Kev, GO, and the rest. If the reg force can fill the role the reserves have no business taking their jobs. For all of the reservists out there think of it this way. We are always bitching about the need/want for job protection and using the fact that we may lose our jobs as the reason for not participating in training. We are doing the same thing to the reg force. This is their job, they do it full time, they are the most qualified to do that job... Let them!



I'm not sure where this type of reasoning is coming from??  The Reserves have a key role in force generation and by augmenting the Regular Force it provides much needed depth within our force generation system.  No jobs being taken away here...there is more than enough to go around particularly if you are planning using managed readiness....  :


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## LF(CMO) (6 Oct 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> This is somewhat incorrect.
> 
> Commander of TF Afghanistan (TF 01-06) will be Col Fraser (Comd 1 CMBG, A/WSE to BGen) - in addition to his duties as Comd MNB(S).   The Canadian TF DComd is slated to be CO SALH (former LdSH LCol - A/WSE to Col), who will run the NCE day to day.   There is no BGen in the NCE.   This is not a "Reserve deployment", but the NCE does indeed contain a substantial number of Reservists in augmentation roles.   41 CBG also has a D&S platoon deploying on the same rotation, unless things have changed in the last 48 hours or so.
> 
> It has been argued that the NCE will find itself playing a very limited role, given the significant number of Canadians within the Brigade itself and the "double-hatting" of the TF Comd, but we'll see.



 Sorry on that one.  It was late last night when I posted the info and I wasn't as careful as I should have been.  I meant to say that the *Brigade Comm* was a Canadian.  I realize that it is not a 'Reserve Deployment' per se.  The LER is supposed to have a D&S platoon.   The SALH suppling BHQ drivers and Phsyops etc.

 "This is their job, they do it full time, they are the most qualified to do that job... Let them!"   Have to disagree.


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## a_beautiful_tragedy (6 Oct 2005)

its roughly 120 reserves from lfaa to fill spots for 2rcr for deployment in feb 2007


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## OPA (19 Oct 2005)

I have my position for TF 3-06, I'm with A-Coy 1 RCR.

A little FYI form LFCA ( _31 Brigade_ )     

This is how the Brique Looks:

1. Example: Inf ( RCR ) BG/ A COY/ Coy HQ/ 1 RIFLE PL/ 3 RIFLE --- RIFLEMAN --- CPL --- 031 CPL J. DOE.

2. Example: TF NSE/ D&S/ 1 SECT   --- RIFLE --- CPL --- 031 CPL J. DOE.

3. Example: PROPOSED TF 3-06 PRes Posn/ CAMP MIRAGE SECURITY PL/ 4 SECT --- RIFLE --- CPL --- 031 CPL J. DOE.

1. Looks to be a member in a reg force section?
2. D&S some place in the Gahn
3. D&S in Camp Mirage( _not sure on spelling_ )

Also each position has a primary, an alternate and a spare. 

We started our "_Pre-Pre-Training_" last week, every weekend for 2 months.

P.S New to the site... hope this new information can help some other guys understand things a little better.


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## Jarnhamar (19 Oct 2005)

I've heard the initial amount of reservists asked for TF06 (265 pers) was cut in half, give or take. (Someone sai 700 applied!)
I've also been told basically there's no selection process anymore- that the soldiers filling the positions have been picked. The selection week-ends in meaford are basically for bringing soldiers up to MLOC in preperation for them joining the 1RCR battlegroup in febuary.
I haven't heard if there will still be primary, alternitive and spare positions.  I know on roto 13 it was pretty messy. Close to or just under half of our platoon were designated spares or alternates IIRC and they ended up going over in primary positions. I hate spending 6 months of uncertiany.  I know some guys will need to possibly quit their job. It'll suck of they quit and don't end up going over.

I was surprised to hear that reserve soldiers will be augmenting the rifle platoons. I heard there were two companies, one LAV and one with the G-Wagons. At a guess the reservists will be in the G-wagon company?


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## MikeM (19 Oct 2005)

I myself have been confirmed for TF 3-06 as well and Ghost what you have said appears to be correct from what I understand on my end. The positions are apparently "hard positions" and the TF has the positions tenatively filled for the individual pers, obviously which can be subject to change once the actual pre-training starts. 

As for the certainty, I am one of the guys who might be fortunate enough not to have to quit my job, but I know that a couple of my friends will have to do so in order for them to go on tour.


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## cbt arms sub tech (19 Oct 2005)

Has anyone heard of full confirmations of being placed on tour/tasking as of yet, as leaving a full time job is a large decision to make...


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## Jarnhamar (19 Oct 2005)

I'm not too sure what a hard position is.

Rule one. Don't tell friends and family your going overseas until your pre-tour leave starts.  

That way you don't have to explain why your not going if you don't make it heh


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## cbt arms sub tech (19 Oct 2005)

So very true, I guess a confirmation is when your landing at the airport overseas....


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## OPA (19 Oct 2005)

My last tour was the same, I was a primary, and only if a guy sucked or was broken did his alternate or spare bump him off the tour. All the positions were the same from start to end, from the time we seen the orbat till we were in theater.
  I still wouldn't be suprised to get f***ed around a little bit, or even no tour.


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## jmackenzie_15 (28 Oct 2005)

I just received an update from our OC on the tour so far....

its a company from LFAA to augment 2RCR. Workup training begins in May, where we will train as a company, then in september we will do work up training with 2RCR. 2 Platoons will be used for D&S security on the gates, and the rest will be taken one and twos at a time and dropped into regF sections that need them.

Thats what we were told anyway.

A few questions I have to anyone that can answer them:
I imagine the regF guys wouldnt like having a reservist thrown into their section.What kind of attitudes are shown towards them? I would guess the reservist would take alot of punishment and be the mule at least at first...

Id rather not do gate security for 6 months, but its better than nothing, and its still a great opportunity I wont get here. What are anyones experiences with this?

Im not certain but I think by the time this tour rotates through, most of the canadians will be in Khandahar? What are the sourroundings like down there? (Camp, locals, village/city, mines and overall danger, wildlife like snakes and such)

thanks!


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## little jim (28 Oct 2005)

jmackenzie_15 said:
			
		

> its a company from LFAA to augment 2RCR. Workup training begins in May, where we will train as a company, then in september we will do work up training with 2RCR. 2 Platoons will be used for D&S security on the gates, and the rest will be taken one and twos at a time and dropped into regF sections that need them.
> 
> Thats what we were told anyway.



The part about the reserves being used as formed platoons for D&S tasks and as individual augmentation sounds like what is happening in 1 CMBG.  Guy at the head-quarters gave me an ear full when I made a comment about reserve companies being deployed as formed sub-units.

Before you guys flame me to death I think he had a good point -

Regular force Battalions/Regiments are force generators now and the Army is grabbing sub-sub unit elements for TF creation (A Recce Pl from the Vandoos, a Recce troop from the Strats etc).  Why should the reserves be treated any different?


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## George Wallace (28 Oct 2005)

little jim said:
			
		

> Regular force Battalions/Regiments are force generators now and the Army is grabbing sub-sub unit elements for TF creation (A Recce Pl from the Vandoos, a Recce troop from the Strats etc).   Why should the reserves be treated any different?


I suppose the simplest answer is for you to look around the "Floor" on a normal Parade night and see what you would be able to muster for a long period of time.


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## GO!!! (28 Oct 2005)

jmackenzie_15 said:
			
		

> A few questions I have to anyone that can answer them:
> I imagine the regF guys wouldnt like having a reservist thrown into their section.What kind of attitudes are shown towards them? I would guess the reservist would take alot of punishment and be the mule at least at first...



This is probably the LEAST painful way to lbe augmented. Although the toon/rental/maggot/half-man etc. will take some abuse at the very beginning, at the end of the first week, your duties are identical, which breeds familiarity and respect. Take this if you can!

When formed units of reservists are added to a real unit, the "us and them" mentality becomes more apparent with seperate standards for leadership/dress/timings etc. This is where the problems lie. I know members of my unit can find fault with anyone - and the last Pl of reservists we had attached (two weeks ago) was a target rich environment. Having a formed Pl of reservists will also almost guarantee the most menial tasks, because the reg F leadership will want to lead the sexier stuff themselves.

My 2 cents


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## Haggis (28 Oct 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> When formed units of reservists are added to a real unit, the "us and them" mentality becomes more apparent with seperate standards for leadership/dress/timings etc.



Really???

Then someone's not doing thier jobs. Could it be the Res F leadership or the Reg F command structure above it.  Either way, it's unfair to solely lay the blame on the Reservists.  They answer to someone.... don't they???

(The only visible difference in dress that should be tolerated is DEU/Regimental headdress.)


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Oct 2005)

Haggis,

Don't get your knickers in a twist. We all know that GO! is firmly on the "other" side when it comes to Reservists. He dislikes them, for various and mostly unfounded reasons, and never passes a chance to take a cheap shot at them. Let it pass, his opinion on the Reserves is not worth debating.


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## cbt arms sub tech (28 Oct 2005)

Remember folks, this is a great opportunity for reserves to prove to the Reg's, we're work hard & put in long days to get on tours such as yourselves.  Great opportunity to work together as opposed to one another.


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## GO!!! (28 Oct 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Haggis,
> 
> Don't get your knickers in a twist. We all know that GO! is firmly on the "other" side when it comes to Reservists. He dislikes them, for various and mostly unfounded reasons, and never passes a chance to take a cheap shot at them. Let it pass, his opinion on the Reserves is not worth debating.



You will notice that in the first sentance of my post that I stated "identical duties...breeding familiarity and respect" in regards to the militia augmentation of units. 

It was'nt a cheap shot - so go **** yourself.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Oct 2005)

Like I said, not worth the debate. 

On another note, get well soon, sorry to hear about your mishap.


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## jmackenzie_15 (29 Oct 2005)

Okay, well i thought GO!'s post was fair and realistic. Which is what I asked for.

If I was a regF soldier, I would consider reserve types 'lesser' soldiers as anybody would... why wouldnt I, they train a fraction of the time... it only makes sense.Not trying to insult anyone, im a reservist myself, but seriously, considering yourself equal in terms of training, experience and capability is just wrong.Im not trying to point anyone out either, but I seem to get that attitude from soldiers around my own unit that feel as though they are just as well rounded.

I was just curious as to what extent we get singled out or anything... personally I would feel uncomfortable at first being augmented into a regF section full of guys who have probobly known and worked with each other for a significant amount of time before I came along... If I were on the other side I would expect nothing less than 100% day in and day out.

My only concern is that if any of them would be predisposed to just hating reservists, regardless of how they perform. I doubt an attitude like this is common or acceptable, but I have really no idea, as my experience in working with regular force soldiers is limited at best.

Its 2RCR I beleive we'd be working with... assuming I even get selected and survive the process barring freak injury or otherwise.I just like to know as much as possible about the situation before I tackle it and I don't think that is unreasonable.

Anyway, if there are any 2RCR around on the forums, Im going to try my damndest to get the opportunity to work with you.. from my POV its the chance of a lifetime that I really should give my best efforts. Any advice or war stories anyone can give me would be much appreciated and good for conversation  ;D


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## Shades (29 Oct 2005)

I dunno if your questions have been answered yet I just jumped to the end of the question to let you guys know what happened with us.  In May we started unit pre training for the tour.  At the end of May 41 Brigade  sent us to wainwright and let us sit there.  1PPCLI didn't know about that it wasn't their idea at least.  At the end of Aug we showed up at their lines and did a quick dag and went on the BTE with them.  That was 7 weeks and now on Nov 1st we are doing mission specific training.  So in no way should it be a 6 month workup.  And if your unit plays things right they won't let you rot away in wainwright.  They will get you courses in the time between until you do workup with the regs.


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## a_beautiful_tragedy (30 Oct 2005)

cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> Remember folks, this is a great opportunity for reserves to prove to the Reg's, we're work hard & put in long days to get on tours such as yourselves.   Great opportunity to work together as opposed to one another.



...ahmen


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## Haggis (30 Oct 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Haggis,
> 
> Don't get your knickers in a twist. We all know that GO! is firmly on the "other" side when it comes to Reservists. He dislikes them, for various and mostly unfounded reasons, and never passes a chance to take a cheap shot at them. Let it pass, his opinion on the Reserves is not worth debating.



It's hard to twist what you don't wear. ;D

My point was not that GO!!! had taken a cheap shot, but was that the Res F leadership of thie unit he mentions should not let that happen and that the Reg F C of C above it shouldn't etiher.

I too have pretty strong opinions WRT Reserves and Regs and have been know to rant about both.  Each has it's strengths (and weaknesses) and IMO both sides have a lot of growing up to do at times.

We're all in the same freakin' Army so we'd better learn to get along!


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## Jarnhamar (30 Oct 2005)

> Remember folks, this is a great opportunity for reserves to prove to the Reg's, we're work hard & put in long days to get on tours such as yourselves



I believe the fact that a reserve team from 33brigade placing 2nd in the cambrian (sp?) patrol in 2004 does a good job of that 

GO brought up a good point.  You can find a fault in anyone- like seeing 3 JTF assaulters being unable to put a wiper blade on a van.

I enjoy working with the regular force because of their experience skill and time in. Enjoy the reserves diversity.

Mix the professionalisim and experience  of career soldiers with the diversity of cops, firemen, paramedics, teachers, mechanics, tradesmen and students and you make one hell of a platoon.


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## KevinB (31 Oct 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Haggis,
> 
> Don't get your knickers in a twist. We all know that GO! is firmly on the "other" side when it comes to Reservists. He dislikes them, for various and mostly unfounded reasons, and never passes a chance to take a cheap shot at them. Let it pass, his opinion on the Reserves is not worth debating.



  :  
I think his answer was pretty even handed -- an observation, not a condemnation.
 I augmented E Bty Para as a reservist in 93 for their Cyprus roto (only a very few got Somalia)  - I got a tour in the city (Nicosia) as opposed to the reserve Company out in the sticks.  While I had to put up with a lot of crap intially I think I got a better tour than the rest of the reservists -- and saw that I wanted to join the reg's.
  Having seen the Dogfuck with the D Coy (reserve) augmentation to 1VP for Roto11 unfold - and saw indivual augmentees (from D&S) rotate into us while in Afghan -the soldiers rotating in to units will get a better shake, than on the fringe (nature of the beast).

 I firmly beleive in individual augmentation and let the soldiers (reg and reserve) stand on their own two feet.


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## Infanteer (31 Oct 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> I firmly beleive in individual augmentation and let the soldiers (reg and reserve) stand on their own two feet.



Until they close up the delta and eliminate this 20 days BS, I agree.


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## the 48th regulator (31 Oct 2005)

I agree on the integration,

we did that in '94 through out the whole of 1RCR, and we gel and were able towork together.  It was a total bonus for us reservist.

dileas

tess


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## NS Highlander (31 Oct 2005)

I am also slated for this tour, I was told there would be a five or six month work up in Wainwright. I was wondering what specific training was involved as I have never done this before. Will it focus on OBUA or more basic field craft and section attacks, presumably both. I am just curious as to how the training is to progress. I was wondering if any reg force guys or reservists with experience could comment on this, I would appreciate it immensly.


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## wack-in-iraq (2 Nov 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> True - heck I'm surprised Timmy's does not have a few set up (they have Timmies in Iraq beleive it or not)
> 
> I'd love a PSD gig guarding the Timmy's managers - free coffee, low risk (who could brign themselves to kill the coffee guys - I mean really?)



im curious as to where you heard of this, ive been here 10 months and havent seen one.


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2005)

my bad - one of the other former Patricia's over there sent a pic of him with a timmies doing a run.  Later I found out he simply has Timmy's coffee he brews himself and puts in their cups for photo ops...


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## Infanteer (2 Nov 2005)

Interesting article on employing Reservists on Operations:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_05/iss_4/CAJ_vol5.4_08_e.pdf

The article comes to some interesting conclusions (read the endnotes as well) which I tend to agree with; they support the view that GO!!!, Kevin, the Regulator and myself have expressed on this thread.


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## Haggis (2 Nov 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Interesting article on employing Reservists on Operations:
> 
> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_05/iss_4/CAJ_vol5.4_08_e.pdf
> 
> The article comes to some interesting conclusions (read the endnotes as well) which I tend to agree with; they support the view that GO!!!, Kevin, the Regulator and myself have expressed on this thread.



This article was written in the winter of 2002.  It supports the view from 2 R22eR BG (Roto 10) at the time.  Nothing more.  Now I'm not saying that I don't agree with you.  In fact I feel that Afghanistan is not quite ready for formed Reserve sub-units (and vice versa) but a time will come when it is.  

Three more company sized rotos have deployed to Bosnia since this article went to press (while Roto 11 was in country), each learning from the previous, but none were able to overcome the onerous administration and training bill that lay before them.  Rather than condemning the collective employment of Reservists, the approach should be to fix the system that prepares them for deployment.


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## Michael Dorosh (3 Nov 2005)

Ok, at our company O Group I asked if this was all priviliged info and apparently it has made the newspapers so...our reserve regiment is currently looking at sending a company-sized task force in late 2007 to objective unknown; hopefully Afghanistan - if we are needed there; Haiti has been suggested as well as some other places.  But training etc. is being put in place to have a company drawn and badged from a single reserve regiment out on an operation, or at least that is how I understand it.  The commander of LFWA visited two different armouries tonight for a question and information session with the local regiments; he seemed to support the idea based on his answers to some of the queries.

I have no idea if it will go, but there are some pretty excited people.  Even if it doesn't happen with us, I feel it is bound to happen at some point if the CF keeps going in the direction of more responsibilities for reserve units, which is how the last couple of Q&A sessions with LFWA officers have gone.


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## cbt arms sub tech (3 Nov 2005)

Cpl Dorosh,

Can you give any more insight on the General's talk last night at Mewata, missed his presentation, wish his notes were posted.


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## Michael Dorosh (3 Nov 2005)

cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> Cpl Dorosh,
> 
> Can you give any more insight on the General's talk last night at Mewata, missed his presentation, wish his notes were posted.



I was actually late and incorrectly dressed; word didn't get down to me he'd be there so I only caught the last few minutes of the question and answer period.  Went as it always does; the Highlanders hogged the general's time, complained we don't have enough machineguns, bitched about the shitty job the ASC does of supporting us and complained some more about how the planning for career courses is chaotic. The General, for his part, looked like a guy who pisses standing up; took names, promised answers, and confessed to stuff he didn't have control over.  No great shakes.  For full details you'll have to talk to someone who was there for the whole thing.   The questions we raised were all legitimate - the KOCR raised the same kinds of questions, especially about employability of armoured troops with regular force units as augmentees given the disparity in equipment now.  There were only KOs and Highlanders there, he went to talk to the Svc Bn, Engineers and presumably Sigs up at the NE Armouries after leaving us.

Only disturbing thing was he talked about taking us from our home at Mewata and into a brand new building to accommodate all the reserve units in Calgary.  Didn't like that at all; our footprint as it were has always been Mewata; for freedom of the city parades we march out our front door - don't get closer to the community than that!


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## cbt arms sub tech (3 Nov 2005)

Thanks for your help, appreciate your time & effort, hope all is well...So many questions to ask, sometimes wish LFWA had a forum such as this, where real answer were given.


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## Kendrick (3 Nov 2005)

Hey at least you guys know who, where, when, and with who a tour is going.  All they tell us around here is "Yeah k theres a huh... tour, starts in january... anyone up for that?"  That's all the info we get.  It's like a lottery or something.  You never know whatcha gonna get.

We give our names, and then we never hear about it again.  S'about how it goes.


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## Krazy-P (3 Nov 2005)

what area are these reservists coming from?


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## cbt arms sub tech (3 Nov 2005)

For TF01-06, some reservists from LFWA are training for a February deployment, plus Pre-deployment rumors for TF04-07 starts in Sept, rumor is its a 18 month possible work opportunity....


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## Krazy-P (3 Nov 2005)

its too bad i will miss the one in feb, my paperwork for my OT to infantry with the LERs is almost ready.


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## cbt arms sub tech (3 Nov 2005)

Again, chain of command are the true experts, but thats what some of us have been hearing, maybe someone really informed can share some info...


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## Good2Golf (4 Nov 2005)

Shades said:
			
		

> I dunno if your questions have been answered yet I just jumped to the end of the question to let you guys know what happened with us.  In May we started unit pre training for the tour.  At the end of May 41 Brigade  sent us to wainwright and let us sit there.  1PPCLI didn't know about that it wasn't their idea at least.  At the end of Aug we showed up at their lines and did a quick dag and went on the BTE with them.  That was 7 weeks and now on Nov 1st we are doing mission specific training.  So in no way should it be a 6 month workup.  And if your unit plays things right they won't let you rot away in wainwright.  They will get you courses in the time between until you do workup with the regs.



Gents, you need to pull the info out of your CoC actively if you're not getting the answers you want/need.  The answers are out there for sure, so if you're not getting them at the armoury you need to crank your requests for info up a notch.  

For you guys going out on TF1-06, if you think you were frustrated with how things have been going on work-ups (pre-BTE, BTE, etc...) you're not the only one.  Had a good chat with the BG Comd a few days ago while he was over here doing his recce...there are definitely things that could have gone much better; feedback from the troops out west was that lower level training was decent and properly focused but that it started to lose it when folks higher up the food chain started directing recreations of the battle to protect the Foulda Gap.  That said, Comd TF1-06 is looking forward to Res contributions in theatre and I think you guys will have a good go -- expect to be busy and do stuff and get out on lots of patrols.  His view is to have you guys as _complementary_ forces not _supplementary_ forces...as described in the Canadian Army Journal article linked by Infanteer on the previous post page.  It is also his view not to have idle hands sitting around waiting for stuff to do, so be prepared to lean forward and jump when he directs...it is fully his intention that TF1-06 is as "high speed, low drag, out there doing things" as possible.  Personally, I would not be surprised to see guys out on the road for close to a week at a time living out of the LAV and not back in the barracks in KAF.  

Re: integration into the TF....don't think that lower level integration is necessarily a bad thing or that not being formed up into a separate company (or couple of platoons) will ruin the experience over here...you'll come up to speed closer to as unified a standard as there will be more quickly and although you have your regiment buds from home over here in the package, you will (or should) relatively quickly mix in with whatever sub-sub-unit or lower level org you're assigned to.  You can still always shoot the poop with your regimental buds when you get back in from patrol but suck in everything you can from the 1VP guys you'll be working with.  1VP is in the enviable position (compared to many other RegF infantry units) of having a fairly robust and experienced leadership chain from section commanders up to its higher levels, short of the CO himself who had a close-to-no-notice posting, moving his entire family West with only two weeks notice to move (keep this kind of stuff in mind if you do hear your fellow reservists complaining a little too loudly about how life can be and the sacrifices they are making doing what they are doing).  You will no doubt gain valuable experience from the RegF guys to a degree you didn't think would happen and they'll pick up some stuff from you guys (good point on some of the civ employment that many of you guys have...perhaps not directly applicable but at least providing a fair bit of dare I say diversity to the make up of the patrols).  Keep a positive, contributory attitude on your tour and you will be rewarded with professional pride and a sense of achievement that should be well deserved.  Learn, soak things in and practice those things you hoist aboard at every opportunity.  A large portion of friction between RegF and Res comes from an "I know  and am just as well prepared as anybody out there"...that may be true....but more likely is not the case.  An attitude to absorb the experience and knowledge that has come from years and years of operational soldiering experience on the part of the Reg folks will serve you well.  The end goal would be to appear indistinguishable (aside from the Brit-pat chest rig that some Reg guys are sporting on sentry over here these days  ) from a RegF soldier both in conduct, professional task-oriented expertise, and a sound knowledge and ability to execute your TTPs in support of your assigned mission and tasks.

Cheers,
Duey


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## Michael Dorosh (4 Nov 2005)

cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> Thanks for your help, appreciate your time & effort, hope all is well...So many questions to ask, sometimes wish LFWA had a forum such as this, where real answer were given.



Commander LFWA invited all of us to email him with further questions - with one caveat - you also have to cc your Commanding Officer and the Brigade Commander of 41 CBG (Colonel Gludo) on any email correspondence with the LFWA commander.


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## a_beautiful_tragedy (4 Nov 2005)

cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> For TF01-06, some reservists from LFWA are training for a February deployment, plus Pre-deployment rumors for TF04-07 starts in Sept, rumor is its a 18 month possible work opportunity....



task force 1 07 are guys from lfaa and its 1 year not 18 months, 6 months work up 6 months deployment to afghanistan


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## cbt arms sub tech (4 Nov 2005)

Hey, different areas, different rumors, so who knows!


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## Shades (4 Nov 2005)

I'll tell you it was a sad day when we moved to the NSE from 1VP they treated us well and cut the bullshit out where it shouldn't be but in the res world people are so high strung when they see the regs and try to impress them to much creating undue jobs and such.  1VP treated us very well and their training and leadership is good.  I can only hope that NSE will do the same for us and that we have a good job overseas but none the less always soak in the knowledge and apply it.  Leave the troublesome troops back at the unit and take the ones worthy of the job.  I see some people are talking about 6 month workup......hahaha thats not a workup thats reserve bullshit with alot of siting around when they could run applicable courses to get their guys ready.  We started in May their was no reason for it sure we did ranges and stuff before we showed up got some of the paperwork out of the way but then we rotted away in wainwright for 4 months doing nothing some were swings for courses and such but then again we were told it was a 6 month workup aswell.


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## cbt arms sub tech (4 Nov 2005)

Shades,

What have you been doing lately for work up training in Edmonton?


----------



## armyvern (4 Nov 2005)

Shades said:
			
		

> I'll tell you it was a sad day when we moved to the NSE from 1VP they treated us well and cut the bullshit out where it shouldn't be but in the res world people are so high strung when they see the regs and try to impress them to much creating undue jobs and such.   1VP treated us very well and their training and leadership is good.   I can only hope that NSE will do the same for us and that we have a good job overseas but none the less always soak in the knowledge and apply it.   Leave the troublesome troops back at the unit and take the ones worthy of the job.   I see some people are talking about 6 month workup......hahaha thats not a workup thats reserve bullshit with alot of siting around when they could run applicable courses to get their guys ready.   We started in May their was no reason for it sure we did ranges and stuff before we showed up got some of the paperwork out of the way but then we rotted away in wainwright for 4 months doing nothing some were swings for courses and such but then again we were told it was a 6 month workup aswell.


Please do the following for your next posts:
Use spellcheck;
Check punctuation;
Avoid profanity; and 
Maintain professionalism.

It's appreciated on this site. Thanks.


----------



## Bloggins (5 Nov 2005)

I am in 32 Bde in LFCA. I don't know how it is usually handled in LFWA. However what the current direction for reserve augumentees on TF 0106 is the following. The home units are responsible to have all of the augumentees complete ELOC. Next the soldier will spend 2 weekends at the area training centre in Meaford to complete MLOC. All paper work and DAG administration is the responsibility of the parent Bde and home unit. The soldiers will then join 1 RCR or there applicable element for the BTE and stay on for the rest of the pre-training stuff like mission specific. The line serials that they have excepted nominations for are 2 full reserve infantry Pl's for D&S tasks. 1 in mirage and the other in Kandahar. The one in Kandahar doing external D&S things like convoy escort as well. What the outgoing LFCA Comd said was that the remainder would be 2 reservists per section in the rifle Coy's and individual soldiers to NSE and NCE. Some reserve members may go with humint and of course CIMIC is all reserve. As well agumentees to CSS and MNB HQ. That is the current game plan but of course things are subject to change on a moments notice if I got anything wrong that someone knows please post it.

Cheers.


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## Shades (5 Nov 2005)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Please do the following for your next posts:
> Use spellcheck;
> Check punctuation;
> Avoid profanity; and
> ...



Yes indeed I'll watch my language, and the spelling I was in a little hurry to post that so don't worry.  And as to the whole D&S I am part of D&S 1 PL going to Khandahar part of NSE at the moment, we still don't know an official job yet.  As per the training we did ELOC at home unit like said and paperwork as per requirements.  It still ended up in doing 6 DAG's lol.  For mission specific as per my time table given includes the following Gas Mask fit/testing which we already did.  Two more medical dags, one day for mission specific needles and a day for a check up.  Four days of First Aid....some others that went through it already told me it more in depth to combat first aid.  Five days of Peace Support Training.  Five days Language/Cultural and mission specific kit issue. Four days of Reflexive Shooting (Gunfighter Drills).  Three days of Comms Training mostly involving the CI.  And that is all they have listed for our mission specific training.


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## Bloggins (7 Nov 2005)

As far as mission specific goes they will probably add some more. And as for the DAG's they are a necessary evil that will be time consuming. Other stuff that will probably be included after the war fighter phase of your work up will be things like foreign weapons and stand training where you will get to role play through different scenarios. Once they have you on the ground do not be surprised or let your morale slide if things all seem to change. It is after all the nature of this particular beast. Just make sure that you are good to go for things like telephone banking, a long distance plan and that you get a civi passport so you can keep it when you return home.

Cheers.


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## KevinB (7 Nov 2005)

Knowing the CF -- internet banking will be th ebest bet.
  30min phone cards (/week the time accumulating) where provided for Athena.

For some reason I dont think CO 1VP will allow the D&S to remain with the NSE for long -- it did not work for Roto II Athena and I cannot see it working on TF1-06.

Unlike some tours Afghan has no "mission specific needles" - but reservists will not likley have the needle battery that the regs get going thru Cornwallis (well St. Jean now).
HEP A/B, Tet/Dip, YF, Typ, Meng, MMR and Polio - are blanket immunizations -- then the Mefloquine for Malria is the only area specific med that is given (or Malarone or the other Dsomethign anti-biotic for those who dont like Manic Monday's   )


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## cbt arms sub tech (7 Nov 2005)

There's some great feedback out here, thanks to all who contributed information.


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## Shades (7 Nov 2005)

Tomorrow I get mission specific needles so far I am sitting at 8 before them.  And then sometime either DEC or Jan start my little mood swing pills lol.  As per foreign weapons I think there may be a quick familiarization.


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## Haggis (7 Nov 2005)

Shades said:
			
		

> Tomorrow I get mission specific needles so far I am sitting at 8 before them.   And then sometime either DEC or Jan start my little mood swing pills lol.   As per foreign weapons I think there may be a quick familiarization.



Before my tasking in the Republic of Georgia (a somewhat more "developed" country that A'stan) I topped out at 15 shots. The immunization nurse promised a set of steak knives when I hit a dozen.   So far, no knives.....


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## Good2Golf (7 Nov 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Knowing the CF -- internet banking will be th ebest bet.
> 30min phone cards (/week the time accumulating) where provided for Athena.
> 
> For some reason I dont think CO 1VP will allow the D&S to remain with the NSE for long -- it did not work for Roto II Athena and I cannot see it working on TF1-06.
> ...



Kevin, I think you're right about CO 1VP's desire to move D&S away from NSE toute-suitey..

Manic Mondays...dang...I was taking the stuff on Wacky Wednesdays!   Ooops.

Cheers,
Duey


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## OPA (8 Nov 2005)

I heard a rumor about going to Wainwright for 5 weeks while on work-up, has anyone else? Do you know what it might be for?

 Thanks


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## Shades (8 Nov 2005)

That 5 week would most likely be the Brigade Training Event (BTE) we spent 7 weeks with the 1VP in the feild.


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## TN2IC (8 Nov 2005)

I know CSS is going.. that is all I am saying.. and a certin someone put there name in.


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## jmackenzie_15 (20 Nov 2005)

There seems to be some confusion amongst the tours, the one ive been refferring to is Roto-7. I think many of you are talking about roto-6.
Just attempting to clarify.

The most recent date I was given is that upon approval from home units, troops will arrive in aldershot, running through summer starting may 1st. After that, they go to gagetown to do work up with 2RCR, and continue as per normal.
My CSM told me that they would be taking a handful of the better troops from aldershot, and integrating them into 2RCR sections where they need/want fillers. The rest will be doing mostly D&S security on the camp gates.

Has anyone else heard anything similiar? different?
Is there anyone else here that plans on or is going on this tour ?


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

TF1-07 for the 2RCR battle Group is out on the CFTPO, I was in looking at it on Thursday. Lots of posns tasked out to 36 Bgde personnel in the CSS areas. Unsure of exact numbers as I wasn't counting but there are blocks tasked out your way.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Nov 2005)

Can reservists opt to stay on for an aditional 6 (or whatever) months at the end of their tour?


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## Teddy Ruxpin (22 Nov 2005)

Not normally - many have tried, very (very!) few have succeeded.  An extension needs the DCDS' personal approval and it must be for an operational reason.


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## jmackenzie_15 (22 Nov 2005)

Does anyone know how many spots there are on this particular roto?
I heard that something like 150 names were put forward for the workup beginning in may, and then there would be a selection process or something.


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## Haggis (23 Nov 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Can reservists opt to stay on for an aditional 6 (or whatever) months at the end of their tour?



There's two issues here (and Teddy is right, the DCDS must approve):

Max tour length without approval is 210 days; and

There must be an operational requirement for you AND your specific skill set.  We had one on Palladium Roto 12/13.  PM me and I'll fill you in.


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## Pte_Martin (23 Nov 2005)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> Does anyone know how many spots there are on this particular roto?
> I heard that something like 150 names were put forward for the workup beginning in may, and then there would be a selection process or something.



Yes 150 people. And in Ontario I know they are doing there training for the tour every other weekend.


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## jmackenzie_15 (23 Nov 2005)

RHFC said:
			
		

> Yes 150 people. And in Ontario I know they are doing there training for the tour every other weekend.



holy crap really?

we're going from may-september, monday to friday down here in aldershot.
I also heard that 20 or so will be integrated into 2rcr sections, and the rest will be D&S security platoon or something. 
I'll be damned if i dont make it in with 2RCR.  :threat:


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## Pte_Martin (23 Nov 2005)

I'll have to ask my buddy whose on it but i know that their "work up" training starts in Feb and what they doing know is just practicing  their skills i think (I'll confirm Thurs) Yes some will go with 2RCR, good luck and getting with them


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## jmackenzie_15 (23 Nov 2005)

are the guys youre talking about going on roto 6, or roto 7 ?


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## RHFC_piper (23 Nov 2005)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> are the guys youre talking about going on roto 6, or roto 7 ?



I'm one of the guys he's talking about...  Its Task force 03 - 06

We're doing MLOC training every other weekend (one left thank god), and we start the work up in Feb, which runs until June-ish.

We're deploying in August of '06 and return in Feb of '07

This TF is Devided into Augmentees, Defence and Security and CIMIC... LFCA is Augmenting 30% of the 1 RCR Battlegroup in Kandahar and the rest are going to UAE to drink and stand guard at a gate...  The only way to get on CIMIC for this TF (for the most part) is to be female since only women can talk to women over there.

As far as I've been told, we still haven't made strength for the Augmentees and are now drawing from the D&S Coy.

Lucky me, I'm going as an Augmentee for D Coy 1 RCR.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Nov 2005)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> The only way to get on CIMIC for this TF (for the most part) is to be female since only women can talk to women over there.



As CIMIC, the males in our Det dealt with women all the time over there.


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## RHFC_piper (23 Nov 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> As CIMIC, the males in our Det dealt with women all the time over there.



I'm just tellin' ya what the CIMIC Co-ord officer was telling us.  They're desperate for women because, according to the CIMIC reps, in the south (Kanadaha) they are very strict about the whole women don't talk to men stuff, and they want to inform them about equal rights and such...


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Nov 2005)

I have no doubt that what you were told. We were given much the same perception before we departed is all. Just keep an open mind, and don't be suprised by things your told, vice the way they really are.


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## jmackenzie_15 (24 Nov 2005)

RHFC, what you said sounds pretty much the same about whats going on here with us for roto7.

I hope they didnt just randomly pick the guys to be augmentees? Id much rather be part of the augmentee force than do gate guard, but whatever happens is fine.... what was it in particular they looked at when choosing who goes where? Or did they just cut everybody in half and say you guys here, the rest over here?


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## RHFC_piper (24 Nov 2005)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> RHFC, what you said sounds pretty much the same about whats going on here with us for roto7.
> 
> I hope they didnt just randomly pick the guys to be augmentees? Id much rather be part of the augmentee force than do gate guard, but whatever happens is fine.... what was it in particular they looked at when choosing who goes where? Or did they just cut everybody in half and say you guys here, the rest over here?



As far as I know, The members from My regiment were selected based on a simple criteria:
No Pte: - I'm a Cpl.
Time in: - the member w/ the least exp in my group is a 3 year... I'm at 7
Attendance: - I'm in the armouries 2 nights a week, everyone else in my group are in 1 (because I'm with the band)
Activity with the Regiment: - I don't know about the rest of the guys, but this is why the RSM put my name 2nd on the list for selection by the brigade
Who you know: - again, I don't know about the rest of the guys, but I talk to the CO a lot, the RSM and DCO are in the Regiments reenactment group with me, and my direct superior right now is the Pipe Major.

As far as I can tell the positions with the Battle group were selected by merit and time in.  All my PDR's say I'm an excellent infanteer with 7 years exp, and tend to leave out that I've been attached out from the rifle coy to the band for 3 years...  A lot of what we're doing in selection trg is a good refresher for me... its been a while.

So, its not random... but there are people who are currently augmentees who make me look like a super soldier...  But keep in mind, its just selection trg now... everything will change in pre-trianing. Nothing is for sure until you hit the ground in the A-stan.

I hope that helps.. as synical as it seems


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## Jarnhamar (27 Nov 2005)

> So, its not random... but there are people who are currently augmentees who make me look like a super soldier...  But keep in mind, its just selection trg now... everything will change in pre-trianing. Nothing is for sure until you hit the ground in the A-stan.



Don't forget it's hard to judge someone by their PDRs sometimes.
Have many times have you seen a complete bag of hammers get a good PDR because their boss doesn't want to (or is told not to) say hey look this kid needs to be surprivised when tying his shoes.  
A reservist craps the bed all summer, gets a good assessment and heads back to their unit where the leadership reads it and says HEY good job we'll send you back next year.   Vicious cycle.
The regular force are great for catching these guys and saying HEY your outta here!  Have faith brother


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## RHFC_piper (27 Nov 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Don't forget it's hard to judge someone by their PDRs sometimes.
> Have many times have you seen a complete bag of hammers get a good PDR because their boss doesn't want to (or is told not to) say hey look this kid needs to be surprivised when tying his shoes.
> A reservist craps the bed all summer, gets a good assessment and heads back to their unit where the leadership reads it and says HEY good job we'll send you back next year.   Vicious cycle.
> The regular force are great for catching these guys and saying HEY your outta here!  Have faith brother



Unfortunately, I've seen that first hand a lot... the last 3 taskings I've been on had tools on it which really didn't deserve the PDR's they got.  I got great PDRs for the last 2 tasking I had (PSTC role player, DHTC Role player) but my PDR from my summer tasking was 'average'.. which I guess is good... but It's nothing special.  But you're right.. Some in leadership positions in the reserve system just don't want to rock the boat and give useless plugs good PDR's.  I've even seen a troop yell at a superior for a bad PDR because it said she had a poor attitude remark... the Officer changed it to a good PDR even after she proved him right... 

Then again, I can also see this working against me.  Like I've said, I've never had a bad PDR.. I've never had a red chit, a warning (verbal or otherwise) and I've never been charged (though I've come close a few times), and its all reflected on my UER, PERs and PDRs... But what isn't so clearly reflected is that I've been out of the infantry company for 3 years (attached to the band), and all my infantry experience since my move to the band has been as enemy force (so really, nothing usefull)... I haven't yet had a problem catching up, but I find most of the other infanteers, not attached to the band, have a very poor opinion of bandsmen (which isn't that much of a shock) but I'm not a bandsman. I'm 031 infantry by trade.  But that doesn't matter.  Once anyone finds out I'm with the band they seem to think that I have no idea what I'm doing.  

Some how I see this haunting me when I get to Petawawa.  But, oh well..  I'll just do my job.


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Nov 2005)

So...like this one time at Band Camp....


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## RHFC_piper (27 Nov 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> So...like this one time at Band Camp....



Oh.. jeez.. never heard that joke before...  c'mon, how 'bout the 'choking a cat' joke... or some kilt jokes...

Thats about as orrigional as asking a piper to play Amazing grace or Scotland the brave... This is why I charge $200 an hour ($150 minimum charge) to play at weddings and funerals, even for fellow troops.. 'cause like support elements, no one appreciates musicians untill they need them.  

btw.. I've never been on a band course, nor have I been to 'band camp'... 'cause I'm not a bandsman... I'm an infantry piper.


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## KevinB (27 Nov 2005)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> I've never been on a band course, nor have I been to 'band camp'... 'cause I'm not a bandsman... I'm an infantry piper.



 ???

Your a piper at work -- your a piper buddy.

 if you where an Infantryman at work then you'd be a....


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## RHFC_piper (27 Nov 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> Your a piper at work -- your a piper buddy.
> 
> if you where an Infantryman at work then you'd be a....



Sooo... by work you mean.. uh.. TASK FORCE 03 - 06.. where I'm and Augmentee for 1 RCR Battlegroup, B coy as a Carl Gustav Gunner?

Sounds like a job for a bandsman to me.. (sarcasm)

Or perhaps you're refering to what I do at home unit as an instructor for the holding platoon, teaching pre SQ soldiers, preparing them for SQ and BIQ... I'm sure they'll need to know how to play that pipes for their future courses.. (yet more sarcasm)

About the only time I'm a 'bandsman' is on Tuesday nights.

The last course I was on was DP2A, just before the summer... the only difference between me and the other infanteers in our regiement (besides 9 years of trg for musical skill on a very difficult instument, and enough devotion to the regiment to train 2 nights a week instead of one) is that I have to fight for every course I get on, I teach remedial Basic infantry skills to new troops and on exercises, I'm the bad guy.

So... I'm an infanteer... who plays the bag pipes.. and was attached to the band, NOT BY CHOICE.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Nov 2005)

Sheesh! Take a chill pill. It was a friggin' joke. And if your going to work with those guys, you better get a thicker skin, or they'll eat you alive. Good luck


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## KevinB (28 Nov 2005)

Dude -- as Recceguy stated -- you have got to grow thicker skin...


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## GO!!! (28 Nov 2005)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Thats about as orrigional as asking a piper to play Amazing grace or Scotland the brave... This is why I charge $200 an hour ($150 minimum charge) to play at weddings and funerals, even for fellow troops..



Well, are'nt you just all about the troops. 

And to think that I've helped guys move, clear out and get around when injured for nothing! I should have charged them - just so they would appreciate me!


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## TCBF (28 Nov 2005)

Two things a new soldier should NEVER tell his Regiment:

1.  That he can play a musical instrument.

2.  That he can skate.

Tom


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## George Wallace (28 Nov 2005)

Hockey Team...


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## Pte_Martin (28 Nov 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Hockey Team...



it's so true... everyone new that comes in our unit we  bug them to come out and play, we are always looking for someone good to come out and play


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## KevinB (28 Nov 2005)

The Hockey comments are a sore point with a lot of regular force pers -- those who remember some teams in Germany (even in Canada) that were theoretically in a sub-unit but never went on ex since they where playing or practicing to play.


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## armyvern (28 Nov 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> The Hockey comments are a sore point with a lot of regular force pers -- those who remember some teams in Germany (even in Canada) that were theoretically in a sub-unit but never went on ex since they where playing or practicing to play.



Ahh this reminds me...wasn't it also an absolutely dizzying pace that they were promoted as well? Can't do my job (never had to actually do my job as it conflicts with the Team schedule) but I'm a WO with 11 years in because I'm a 80 goal scorer etc etc.

Still see this occur but it's not quite as prevalent as it used to be...at least in my neck of the woods.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2005)

I was surprised at all the hockey injuries in the reg force in pet and on tour. It seems like it was 90% +

Anyhow, how about we start an army.ca hockey team...


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## armyvern (28 Nov 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Anyhow, how about we start an army.ca hockey team...


Well, I can't play hockey but I'm in for the Cheerleader try-outs!! Name the date & place. Can we please have anbody but CTS come up with the little mini I'll have to wear??


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## Good2Golf (28 Nov 2005)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Well, I can't play hockey but I'm in for the Cheerleader try-outs!! Name the date & place. *Can we please have anbody but CTS come up with the little mini I'll have to wear??*



 :rofl:


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## ImanIdiot (28 Nov 2005)

only involve CTS if we aren't going to play until 2019.


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## armyvern (28 Nov 2005)

MasterPrivate said:
			
		

> only involve CTS if we aren't going to play until 2019.


Although I was thinking more along the lines of actually being issued a piece of kit in a design other than cadpat. At least I'm hoping that the Army.ca Hockey Team manager will be issuing these outfits won't he?? You are more than likely correct though. You really don't want to see me in a mini skirt in 2019 at the age of 50...well, on second thought...you probably don't need to see that now...

Agghhh!! My eyes!! I'm having scary visuals!!   8)


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## Jarnhamar (28 Nov 2005)

This is where we put all the all stars on the "A" team and treat them like gold and all the other players on the "B" team are like the red headed step childs right?


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## armyvern (28 Nov 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> the "B" team are like the red headed step childs right?



Oh oh...I might resemble this remark!!

That means I'm getting better!! I figure by having to get myself all worked up into a tizzy and performing a hot and sweaty work-out routine for team try-outs in a mini skirt...I'b be lucky to get voted onto the "Z" team let alone the "B" Team!!


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## OPA (29 Nov 2005)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Sooo... by work you mean.. uh.. TASK FORCE 03 - 06.. where I'm and Augmentee for 1 RCR Battlegroup, B coy as a Carl Gustav Gunner?
> 
> Sounds like a job for a bandsman to me.. (sarcasm)
> 
> ...



  RHFC_piper, do you Scottish "band" type people have those glen-gary hats? If you do then I think I know exactly who you are, and if you plan on being a 1 RCR BG, 84 Gunner then it seems you have some hard PT issues to get over first. Perhaps you should get out of your band position, and find some infantry stuff to do to keep fit to fight.


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## KevinB (29 Nov 2005)

Not wanting to added fuel to the fire -- but just because you are allocated a line serial -- does not mean you will fill it or go on tour.

 My line serial for four years was for a position I was unqualifed to occupy...

They are all just names on a list until its the actual tour ORBAT.


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## jmackenzie_15 (7 Feb 2006)

Does anyone know anything further about this tour coming? (im speaking about roto 7)
From my end of the country as far as anyone knows, LFAA was supposed to commit 850 pers and only 200 or so even applied... Our CO and others as well were trying to suck more of us in with the idea that the workup training may not start untill september as opposed to may1, in an attempt to gather more guys.

Is it just me or are they desperate to fill boots?

Someone in 2RCR I assume would know alot more about this than I, I can only find out what my WO is able to eavesdrop on etc.


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## armyvern (7 Feb 2006)

Well...I do know this:

The bulk of 2RCR + approx 200 augmentees = approx 850 from LFAA.


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## jmackenzie_15 (7 Feb 2006)

Thats basically what I thought..... except LFAA only has 200/850 or something.
Considering workup for us reserve troopers was/is supposed to start May 1, that seems like somewhat of a problem to me.


----------



## armyvern (7 Feb 2006)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> Thats basically what I thought..... except LFAA only has 200/850 or something.
> Considering workup for us reserve troopers was/is supposed to start May 1, that seems like somewhat of a problem to me.


Where did you hear that?? 2RCR minus rear party = a lot more than 200....

Don't forget about the pers from 4ESR/3ASG etc from around this Base that will be deploying as well.... It's alot bigger numbers than 200 from this Base alone; let alone LFAA.


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## jmackenzie_15 (7 Feb 2006)

Okay let me clarify;

from what I was told LFAA was supposed to form a reserve rifle composite company (850 guys) to give to 2RCR to deploy on roto 7, and some guys from the company would be selected and integrated into 2RCR sections, and the remainder would mostly perform camp security.

Saying that, of the 850 positions LFAA needed filled, so far only 200 pers have applied.

That is the current situation from what I understand, and my immediate superiors at home understand.


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## geo (7 Feb 2006)

Mack....
who'se rifle company is 850 deep?
Rifle Coy = +/- 100 little injuns
so you're [presently looking at 200 names to fill 100 spots... 
I hope you don't expect to have a higher attrition.


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## jmackenzie_15 (7 Feb 2006)

LOL my bad.... i think im saying company out of habit. Its supposed to be a "reserve composite group", that includes a rifle company.
total group being 850 pers, not the company.


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## combatcamera (7 Feb 2006)

KevinB said:
			
		

> :blotto:
> 
> Read a Pl for Mirage and a PL for Gate duties in K town...
> 
> ...



Good one!  Though I recall last year they did rotate some of the Reserves to Julien for three-week periods doing the odd patrols with the Royals there.  On the bright side, they get to do all that gold shopping in the souk's! 

Frank

www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca
www.frankhudec.ca


----------



## jmackenzie_15 (7 Feb 2006)

Well if theres only 100 rifles needed, and 220 or so are already on the roster, im dropping the CT bomb into my orderly room tomorrow.
This tour possibility was the only thing keeping me in the reserves... i was just going to use the time on all that class b and put it towards a regf career, but whatever.


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## geo (8 Feb 2006)

Mack,
Reserve contributions in the past, for Bosnia deployment maxed out with the Prep of 1 Rifle Coy, I Armd RECCE Tp and 1 Engr Tp by LFQA... just in time for Bosnia pull-out.

If memory serves me right LFWA, LFCA & TFAA deployed the Infantry segment to Bosnia some 3 yrs ago.


----------



## dapaterson (8 Feb 2006)

The name has changed from time to time - it was an RCAT - Reserve Combined Arms Team - which begat the RCG - Reserve Company Group.

Those are the training groups that will rotate through CMTC - 4 serials per year, one per area (2006 will only have an LFAA RCG).  They are not tied to deployments.  I say again, they are not tied to deployments.  And I say again for a third time, they are not tied to deployments.  While there was at one time a consideration to using those serials for work-up training, the intent now is to provide each area with the opportunity to conduct a level 4 fully instrumented exercise each year for their reservists, while the four large-scale CMTC serials will validate the Task Forces - including both the Reg F and Res F pers in the TFs.

For the 2 RCR led TF (1-07, I believe) LFAA will be generating reservists to augment the TF.  But with a total TF of ~1000 pers, there will be 150 to 200 reserve positions total, no more.

I do not think the curent plan calls for any organized reserve augmentation above the platoon level; most augmentees will be individuals integrated into Regular Force platoons or troops.

Anyone claiming "There will be 850 reservists deploying on TF 1-07" is incorrect.


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## geo (9 Feb 2006)

between the TF in theatre, the TF in reserve, the 2 TFs in workup and the 2 that have gone offline... if the reserves are asked to "field" +/-200 augmentees per TF we're talking about some 1200 reservists committed at any one time. Given that most Reservists have jobs or are full time students, it's a sizeable committment and I wonder if it's sustainable - year after year?


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## Arctic Acorn (9 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> I wonder if it's sustainable - year after year?



I suspect it isn't, and that the extensive Res commitment will lessen over time. Just a theory, but between the new programs set up to to attract Res members to CT (allowing people to apply for a CT on tour, streamlining CT processes for members in designated trades) and the supposed recruiting increase, I would expect to see the numbers of reservists required for deployments _eventually_ drop off.


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## dapaterson (9 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> between the TF in theatre, the TF in reserve, the 2 TFs in workup and the 2 that have gone offline... if the reserves are asked to "field" +/-200 augmentees per TF we're talking about some 1200 reservists committed at any one time. Given that most Reservists have jobs or are full time students, it's a sizeable commitment and I wonder if it's sustainable - year after year?



That's the big question surrounding the MRP (well, one of them).  But even when the 5000 person regular force expansion is complete, the regular force will not be able to sustain the full MRP without reserve augmentation.  Whether it will remain at the current 15-20% or not depends on what the army is asked to do and where we are asked to do it.


Given the Army reserve generally has turnover of about 15% per year (including a significant number who undergo component transfers) filling the Cpl/Pte slots on rotation should be possible; it's the leadership positions (MCpl through WO, and Lt/Capt) that may be more difficult to sustain.  With significant pressure on those rank levels domestically - both in terms of shortfalls in numbers and great demand for full-time reserve service at home - it remains to be seen what the Army reserve can generate on a continuous basis.


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## geo (9 Feb 2006)

0tto Destruct said:
			
		

> I suspect it isn't, and that the extensive Res commitment will lessen over time. Just a theory, but between the new programs set up to to attract Res members to CT (allowing people to apply for a CT on tour, streamlining CT processes for members in designated trades) and the supposed recruiting increase, I would expect to see the numbers of reservists required for deployments _eventually_ drop off.


That is under the assumption that the Check is in the mail.

What with the stand up of the CSOR and the shaking out or all these new HQ command structures - we're getting top heavy again (still) and the funding we do have is being routed away from training and the troops.... IMHO


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## Arctic Acorn (11 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> That is under the assumption that the Check is in the mail.
> 
> What with the stand up of the CSOR and the shaking out or all these new HQ command structures - we're getting top heavy again (still) and the funding we do have is being routed away from training and the troops.... IMHO



Thats a fair cop, but it in turn assumes that there will be no new funding. Its a possibility, but I'd want to wait a few months and see how the Gov't/MND want to change things. As far as I'm concerned, most of the Conservative's promises are written in water.


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