# New Poll: Should RCAC Allow some kind of Combat Training



## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

Just Ressurecting this!
Do you think we should have some kind of Combat Arms training? I was just wondering about this... Should the RCAC's follow more like the UK Cadet Program? For example shoot 9mm,do some kind of feild training (War Games type things) allow something like airsoft or something like that? Maybe allow the C7 to be shot more often that at camp!


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## mcnutt_p (13 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> Just Ressurecting this!
> Do you think we should have some kind of Combat Arms training? I was just wondering about this... Should the RCAC's follow more like the UK Cadet Program? For example shoot 9mm,do some kind of feild training (War Games type things) allow something like airsoft or something like that? *Maybe allow the C7 to be shot more often that at camp!*



You want to give kids, yes that what they are kids, more oppritunites to fire a C7. When I was in cadets in the mid-late 1990's we used Daisy air rifles and .303 Lee-Enfields. There is nothing wrong teaching marksmanship to kids, by using thoose. 

I can see it on the news now. Little John while on a cadet shoot, put his C7 on automatic and started shooting at his fellow cadets.  :mg:

How would that go over


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

The funny thing is... I know people whom shot AK-47's on Cadet Shoots between 93-96 If we could even go back to the way that was... Honestly thats what people think when they think of joining Cadets... Believe me I was a RSM of my Corps I have seen alto of people quit. Even if we could have exercises with the reserves for selective kids (16+). Give Cadets a taste of Army life. Honestly. Before I left cadets it got to the point  where whe were not even allowed to play simulated games of flash lite tag where if u were flashed upon u were a casualty... I got in trouble from the Region Officer. That is pathetic. And I am not only saying shoot C7's all the time... bring back the .303 and in the past how many people got hurt with the ways they trained the cadets? Even if they will not allow us to shoot higher calibre weapons at least allow us to shoot Airsoft rifles.
That is a safe simulation of war games but yet Cadets are not allowed... I organized events outside of reg training nights for cadets where we would go all pitch in on some airsoft guns and ammo and have a simulated wargame... they all loved it (all of them were 15+) No one cut the slightest cut or bruise. We should do something like that


**Edited Poll**


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## sgt_mandal (13 Jul 2005)

kyle?........are you there?........does this seem as ridiculous to you as it does to me? ......   :


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

Well you are an air cadet are you not? It is too the point where we can't even ride in the back of a ML anymore... you guys fly gliders etc and we are stuck with nothing... Map and Compass WOOHOOO!!! :threat:


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## Saorse (13 Jul 2005)

Not to come off too strong, but I think this could get a bit ridiculous for two reasons.

One: We do not need combat training. We will, and I pray upon this if need be, never see a Cadet Corporal on the battlefields of Iraq anytime soon. I totally agree with opening them up to the atmiosphere, such as the opportunities to shoot the weapons on advanced camps as rewards, and even experiencing something like the combat simulator that Cape Breton Army Cadets experienced on our YIP or SDA trip a couple of years ago, but to give cadets combat training would not only potentially be dangerous and make a lot of cadets join just for that possibly, it would lead to number two...

Two: Quite frankly, a big head. We can all think of examples where power has gone to a cadet's head, and potentially ruined their cadet experience, along with others. If we start offering cadet training, I will stake my life on the guarantee that it will soar to a cadet's head, and they will feel as if Canada should rely on them to defend our country. It may seem a bit far stretched, but it is most definitely true. Combat training is not something a fifteen year old, for example, should be exposed to. If a senior cadet wants to experience combat as well, the opportunity to join the Forces is there. Fighting is not what cadets is about!


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## sgt_mandal (13 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> Well you are an air cadet are you not? It is too the point where we can't even ride in the back of a ML anymore... you guys fly gliders etc and we are stuck with nothing... Map and Compass WOOHOOO!!! :threat:


You may be "stuck with nothing", but there is no way in hell they would even considder combat training. The idea is laughable at best lol........#1 ever hear of child soldiers?.....#2 ever hear training costs?......i could go on, but I'd be wasting my time.......


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

You do not understand the point that I am trying to get across... There is a thing called permission! If they could grant a corps with permission then the corps could deal with the fundraising! If a cadet corps could do airsoft training or anything I bet my life that corps #'s would go up! Therefor bringing more interest into the program and into the CF!
Do you understand what I am saying?
Combat Training Consists of many things not only learning how to Kill people... It teaches you alot of things.


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## sgt_mandal (13 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> not only learning how to Kill people...



 :..........


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## Saorse (13 Jul 2005)

You said it yourself, though, OHara. Combat training _does_ teach how to kill people.


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

Yes... But t.v teaches how to kill people kids friends teach each other to kill people the government teaches people how to kill people! I am not saying to teach them flat out for example "Ok Cpl.Wankster, Please Demonstrate on how to properly slice throught the enemys throat from behind" I am not saying teach them that exact thing you know what I mean? Teach them Patrolling, feild manouver,feild camoflauge, Teach them the Fundamentals of Combat Trainin

I am willing to debate this to death just so you know  >


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## sgt_mandal (13 Jul 2005)

OHara said:
			
		

> you know what I mean?


no......


> I am willing to debate this to death just so you know   >


This seems to be turning into a very morbid thread....
Someone please kill this thread.....


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

lol, You just do not understand how you can not recognize what I am trying to say honestly. I am not trying to be rude but I just do not get it! Fundamental Combat Training on the Slightest level doesnt mean learning to kill people.


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## sgt_mandal (13 Jul 2005)

That's like saying there's no colour in a florists career.......


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

Do you have an experience with recent "ARMY CADET" training?


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## sgt_mandal (13 Jul 2005)

This is not about me or my training, it's about the logic an principle behind why there is no combat training in cadets and there never will be.


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## Saorse (13 Jul 2005)

You're contradicting yourself, OHara. I fully support the training of the "fundamentals" you outlined, 100%, but I would not even consider that combat training.


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## mcnutt_p (13 Jul 2005)

OHara

You listed types of training you would like cadets to do.

Patrolling: Fighting, Urban or Recce? They are all diffrent but part of combat training. Cadets cannot learn all that

Also when would this take place, where, length, who would train you, is there an enemy force?

Before any operations in a field enviroment everyone must be proficiant in Map and Compass work. Instead  of wanting to teach combat traing teach the fundementals such as Map and Compass or Personal Cleaning in the Field. It was in the Green  star program when I was a cadetso it should still be there.

If a cadet want to play army, tell them to wait until they are old enough to join the Forces.

McNutt


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## OHara (13 Jul 2005)

mcnutt_p said:
			
		

> OHara
> 
> You listed types of training you would like cadets to do.
> 
> ...




Ok, I forgot to mention this point, I was aiming at the patrolling and Recce part of it. It would be done with your affiliated Unit. For Example the RSM of the RMRang my former affiliate unit offered to do what ever we were allowed to do. and he told me to see what I can do to sturr some stuff up! So Recce,and patrolling with affiliate units *teaching you*


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## mcnutt_p (13 Jul 2005)

Even if modified, do you think a cadet could follow the following which is right outof the Patrolling aid memoire.

Recce Patrol

1040-                 Warning order received by patrol comd
1045-                 Time appreciation
1100-                 Inform 2 I/C
1100-1500-     2I/C prepares patrol and patrol rest
1130-                 I/C is briefed
1200-                 Planning (kit selection and map work)
1230-           Brief 2I/C
1330-           Make detailed plan
1630            Check kit for noise
645-            Day rehearsal
1800-           Lunch
1830            Rest
2200            Night rehearsal
2300            Supper
2400            Kit check
0030            Patrol starts
0500            ETA
0515            Debrief


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## Island Ryhno (13 Jul 2005)

I'd like to know where your cadets got Ak-47's?


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## mcnutt_p (13 Jul 2005)

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> I'd like to know where your cadets got Ak-47's?



x2 ;D


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## Kunu (13 Jul 2005)

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> I'd like to know where your cadets got Ak-47's?



Point of advice, OHara: the cadet system is notorious for being quite the nursery for unfounded rumours and hearsay.  Unless you want to develop a reputation for having your foot in your mouth, be VERY careful about believing what you hear from people.


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## muskrat89 (13 Jul 2005)

This thread has already been done a dozen times in the past, and always degenerates into the same ol crap. I'm locking this one up.


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