# RCMP prevent attack - 10 Aug 2016



## jollyjacktar

While I can sympthasyse with the father, if is son is deserving to be scooped up as one of the "watch listed gang", then so be it.  Shared under the fair dealings provisions.



> Winnipeg man considered radical extremist by CSIS, his father says
> 
> Military member worries his son, a convert to Islam, could get scooped up under new anti-terror law
> 
> By Joanne Levasseur, CBC NewsPosted: Mar 06, 2015 4:00 AM CT|Last Updated: Mar 06, 2015 7:50 AM CT
> 
> A career member of Canada's armed forces said CSIS has informed him his 23-year-old son is now considered a radical extremist. He worries he could be swept up when new anti-terror legislation comes into force.
> 
> The man, who serves on an Alberta military base, says his son in Winnipeg goes by the alias Harun Abdurahman and runs a Twitter account that sides with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
> 
> The 56-year-old man agreed to speak to CBC News on condition of anonymity, fearing for his safety. He says his son went through a difficult childhood, and converted to Islam in 2008 while living in Ontario.
> 
> "Harun just started getting radical last year," he said. He found out when CSIS agents paid him a visit in December.
> 
> At that time, CSIS considered Harun a "radical extremist."
> 
> Agents pulled out a file three centimetres thick, documenting Harun's tweets and retweets.
> 
> "Some things made me want to throw up," the father said. "People beheaded — he's commenting on them like it's some big joke, and he's applauding their actions. There was picture of Christian kids being assassinated, and he said they deserved it."
> 
> It came as a complete shock to the father, who identifies himself as white and Christian.
> 
> "It was just horrifying to know that this was what my son doing," he said.
> 
> "How can my son be into something like this? He grew up in a Christian home. We took him to church."
> 
> On Monday, CSIS agents called him again to tell him concern about his son is escalating because of the volume and seriousness of his tweets. They said he was being monitored 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
> 
> "Well, here you've got your national security force, if you will, monitoring your child," he said. "How would you react to something like that? I didn't know what to say."
> 
> Bill C-51 would allow suspects to be detained based on less evidence, and would let CSIS actively interfere with travel plans and finances.
> 
> The young man who answered Harun's phone didn't want to be interviewed yesterday, but earlier in the day Harun tweeted: "I may be in some very big trouble."
> 
> His father, who has a 15-year military career, only has sporadic contact with his son through text messaging. At one point, he lost contact for more than two years.
> 
> The father first saw changes in his son when the boy was only seven years old. That's the year his mom got sick and died of brain cancer.
> 
> "It was like he turned out the lights and put a 'Do Not Disturb' sign on the door," the father said.
> 
> He was withdrawn, unwilling to talk about his grief or accept the psychological help his father said he offered.
> 
> The depressed boy turned into a defiant teen.
> 
> His father recounted a meeting  when his son was in Grade 7. Harun told a police officer, a truancy officer and his principal they could not force him to stay in school or stop him from smoking dope.
> 
> "'All you can do is arrest me if you find it on me, and good luck with that,'" the father recalled him saying.
> 
> The turmoil grew until Harun turned 16 and left their Ontario home.
> 
> Cleaned up his act
> 
> "He went and lived with social services at some halfway house, and they finished raising him," the father said.
> 
> Harun returned to live with his father as a grown man four years ago. Harun told his dad he had cleaned up his act and converted to Islam in 2008.
> 
> Harun didn't appear to be outwardly religious when he moved in with his dad, who had been transferred to Winnipeg a couple of years earlier. But he did fast for Ramadan and ate halal meat, something his father went out of his way to purchase to make him feel at home.
> 
> "We were loving, accommodating, respectful," although he admits hoping the conversion was just a phase.
> 
> 
> "When he was living at home, he was very secretive; a lone wolf. He didn't bring friends over, never talked about where going and what doing" he said.
> 
> Today, communication between father and son remains sparse and strained.
> 
> The father fears the boy he loves may be lost forever: "He says he wants to move to live in an Islamic state. He doesn't want to be a Canadian."
> 
> "He's gone, he's lost, I can't help him," he said, adding he hopes the Islamic Association of Manitoba can get through to him.
> 
> "I want other parents out there to realize that we all don't know what our children are doing behind our backs. We want to think we know. We want to think we have control, but when the bottom line comes right down to it, we really don't."
> With files from Caroline Barghout
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-man-considered-radical-extremist-by-csis-his-father-says-1.2984074



*- mod edit of thread title to better reflect how events have unfolded -*


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## The Bread Guy

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Way to go, CBC, for phoning up a guy on the watch list so he can get a decent head start.  He'll just go under ground and slip away.


Not to worry - if he's saying this in the open on Twitter about an hour or so ago ....


> Please locally delete all conversations with me.


.... he doesn't strike me as the kind of (alleged until charged and convicted, of course) person those who hunt for such folk for a living will have a load of trouble tracking down.


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## Teager

> RCMP thwart 'imminent potential terrorist threat'
> rcmp
> CTVNews.ca Staff
> Published Wednesday, August 10, 2016 6:48PM EDT
> Last Updated Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:03PM EDT
> RCMP say they have stopped a potential terrorist threat, after police forces were put on high alert.
> The RCMP said in a statement they received "credible information of a potential terrorist threat" earlier Wednesday.
> "A suspect was identified and the proper course of action has been taken to ensure that there is no danger to the public's safety," the statement said.
> "The safety and security of Canadians is of the utmost importance to the RCMP and we take all such threats seriously. As this is still an unfolding matter and that the investigation is still underway, we are not able to provide further comment at this time."



http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rcmp-thwart-imminent-potential-terrorist-threat-1.3023694


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## dapaterson

No information available to ascribe motivation.  Very premature to stick that arrest in this thread.


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## jollyjacktar

He doesn't look the same as the other assholes who've tried that shit here before.  More like a wanna be Ninja idiot.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/terror-threat-arrest-rcmp-1.3715969


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## CBH99

I am a very pro law enforcement kind of guy, and currently work in the system.

That being said, this better not be some completely fabricated bulls**t by the RCMP again.  

Guess all we can do is wait for more information to be released, an actual photo of the suspect, and a bit more on the specifics.


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## The Bread Guy

Here's all the RCMP's Info-machine is sharing right now ...


> Earlier today, the RCMP received credible information of a potential terrorist threat.  A suspect was identified and the proper course of action has been taken to ensure that there is no danger to the public's safety.
> 
> The safety and security of Canadians is of the utmost importance to the RCMP and we take all such threats seriously. As this is still an unfolding matter and that the investigation is still underway, we are not able to provide further comment at this time.
> 
> We encourage Canadians to remain alert and to immediately report any suspicious or unusual behaviour to their local police or by contacting the National Security Information Network at 1-800-420-5805. More information will be provided as it becomes available.


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## Jarnhamar

Pretty sad to read about a father going  through that.


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## brihard

Per CTV, one white male in custody. Suspected ISIS ties. Planned to carry out a suicide bombing in a major Canadian city. Op was executed by RCMP in Strathroy, Ontario. I can say with considerable confidence from the photos CTV has that that's an RCMP Emergency Response Team member.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian-terror-threat-linked-to-police-operation-in-ontario-town-1.3023694


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## dapaterson

Assume you're talking about the first photo, and not the individual in black...


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## brihard

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Assume you're talking about the first photo, and not the individual in black...



LOL, yes, the multicam. Not the ISIS-Ninja.


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## FJAG

Brihard said:
			
		

> Per CTV, one white male in custody. Suspected ISIS ties. Planned to carry out a suicide bombing in a major Canadian city. Op was executed by RCMP in Strathroy, Ontario. I can say with considerable confidence from the photos CTV has that that's an RCMP Emergency Response Team member.
> 
> http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian-terror-threat-linked-to-police-operation-in-ontario-town-1.3023694



Holy crap; holy crap!  :help:

 :cheers:


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## PuckChaser

Suspect is now reported to have been killed in the raid:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/lone-suspect-killed-in-anti-terrorism-operation-in-southern-ontario-1.3023694



> Lone suspect killed in anti-terrorism operation in southern Ontario
> CTVNews.ca Staff
> Published Wednesday, August 10, 2016 6:48PM EDT
> Last Updated Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:16PM EDT
> 
> A suspected ISIS sympathizer believed to be the lone suspect in a suicide bomb plot on a major Canadian city was killed Wednesday during a dramatic police takedown in a southern Ontario town, CTV News has learned.
> 
> Aaron Driver, 23, was killed inside a home in Strathroy, Ont., a community about 225 kilometres west of Toronto. He was well known to Canadian intelligence and police officials for his support for the Islamist terrorist group.
> 
> Police believe Driver was acting alone in the alleged plot, and there is no threat to public safety. But officials were swarming the Strathroy house until late Wednesday night, concerned about what may have been inside.
> 
> Security officials are seen in Strathroy, Ont., a community about 225 kilometres west of Toronto, where a police operation has been linked to a suspected terrorist threat.
> Police
> 
> Police officers are seen in Strathroy, Ont., where a police operation has been linked to an alleged terrorist plot.
> 
> Neighbours reported hearing a loud explosion and gunshots during the police operation, which included swat teams, a bomb squad, the RCMP and Canada’s military special operations forces.
> 
> According to an internal government memo obtained by CTV News, the suspect allegedly planned to use an IED to carry out a suicide bombing mission in a public area. His alleged plan, according to the document, was to create mass casualties.
> 
> Officials feared that the plot could’ve been carried out on Wednesday during rush hour in a busy location.
> 
> The RCMP has not said what city was allegedly targeted. Security officials say there is no longer a threat to national security.


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## PuckChaser

He was also well-known to the RCMP, having been under a Peace Bond since February 2016:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/manitoba/aaron-driver-peace-bond-terrorist-isis-1.3430287



> Peace bond will limit activity of Aaron Driver, ISIS supporter
> Driver will no longer have to wear GPS ankle bracelet
> 
> February 2, 2016
> 
> Aaron Driver, who authorities fear might get involved in terrorist activity, says he had no choice but to agree to a peace bond.
> 
> "If I fought it, they would have added even more conditions than I'm already under," Driver told CBC News Tuesday at the Winnipeg courthouse, as he waited to sign paperwork at the clerk's office.
> 
> Driver will not go to trial. He is not facing criminal charges, but his lawyer and the Crown agreed to a peace bond to limit his activities.
> 
> During a court hearing Tuesday morning, the Crown said by agreeing to enter into the peace bond, Driver is "consenting or acknowledging that there are reasonable grounds to fear that he may participate, contribute — directly or indirectly — in the activity of a terrorist group."
> 
> Michelle Falk, executive director of Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties, said consent in Driver's case is debatable because Driver would have faced additional restrictions on his freedom had he not agreed to the bond.
> 
> "We don't really think he had a choice in the matter," Falk said.
> 
> The peace bond does not require Driver to wear a GPS monitoring bracelet or undergo religious counselling — two conditions that Driver faced when he was released on bail in June.
> 
> He will, however, have to continue living in Ontario, where he has been staying with his brother in recent months, and seek written permission to own any cellphones, computers or mobile devices. As well, he must stay off social media websites until the end of August.



Here's a picture of the clown without him being a coward and hiding his face:


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## Jarnhamar

Kidding aside Wicked job by the RCMP and CSIS.  I realize there's reasons for it but I wish they would take these traitors out a lot sooner.  What a happy ending.


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## dapaterson

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Kidding aside Wicked job by the RCMP and CSIS.  I realize there's reasons for it but I wish they would take these traitors out a lot sooner.  What a happy ending.



No trial?  No public evidence?  Just someone labelled as "evil" without an opportunity to defend against the charges "taken out"?


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## Jarnhamar

I'll enter his twitter and Facebook comments as public evidence  ;D


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## Eye In The Sky

dapaterson said:
			
		

> No trial?  No public evidence?  Just someone labelled as "evil" without an opportunity to defend against the charges "taken out"?



From this link:

Driver was well known to police and intelligence officials. He was known for tweeting his support of ISIS, and _he applauded the 2014 attack on Parliament Hill and encouraged ISIS to target Canadian military and police_.

I don't think I'll lose any sleep tonight over any of this, assuming that statement is reasonably true/accurate.  Sometimes the enemy is at the gate.  Sometimes he is on our side of the fence and looking in my, your or someone's back yard.


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## brihard

CTV also made reference to CANSOFCOM involvement. My guess would be CJIRU given the threat.


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## MilEME09

Brihard said:
			
		

> CTV also made reference to CANSOFCOM involvement. My guess would be CJIRU given the threat.



Or it could be explosive/IED experts given it was a threat of a IED/Suicide bombing, they might of called for military experts in said area of expertise


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## brihard

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Or it could be explosive/IED experts given it was a threat of a IED/Suicide bombing, they might of called for military experts in said area of expertise



Yup, but by their very nature CJIRU must include some of the very best IED experts. I would figure if there's some ambiguity to the explosive threat, best to call them out. A known conventional explosive threat is well within the RCMP's EDU capabilities.


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## jollyjacktar

In this particular case, I am torn in how I feel.  I am glad that the watch list has been reduced by one in a permanent fashion as I'd rather the suspects don't survive their contact with police.  But, the father of this scumbag is or was a CF member, IIRC, and was not egging him on or sharing his viewpoints, ie Khadr clan.  He must be devastated by a son that has gone astray and as a father, I can empathise.


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## Lightguns

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I'll enter his twitter and Facebook comments as public evidence  ;D



I enter lighting off one bomb and trying to light another while be killed by RCMP types as further evidence.  But I, too, have torn emotions about this.  I have a son who is a basement dweller with his mom, anti military and a scruff to boot.


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## The Bread Guy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> ... the father of this scumbag is or was a CF member, IIRC, and was not egging him on or sharing his viewpoints, ie Khadr clan.  He must be devastated by a son that has gone astray and as a father, I can empathise.





			
				Lightguns said:
			
		

> ... I have a son who is a basement dweller with his mom, anti military and a scruff to boot.


And this is part of what makes these hard to deal with -- it's possible even if everything's done right, feces occur.  And 1)  fixing the issues with the individuals, and 2)  making it harder for ISIL to be attractive to some people with issues, are both hard to fix. Hell, I'm even having trouble asking the right, precise question for a solution.

Anyone interested in what buddy had to say for himself while the peace bond was being litigated, see attached TorStar Q&A from last year.

I'm looking forward to hearing more, but now, we have one case, here, in a western democracy where it appears someone on a peace bond was still able to make things that go boom, and another case where even being under surveillance (admittedly intermittent) didn't stop planning & execution of an attack.

I'm not a fan of preventive detention, but these show me surveillance alone doesn't seem to be enough.


----------



## jollyjacktar

From what I've read, the electronic tracking was removed once the peace bond was issued.  I would say that peace bonds are like padlocks in that they only keep honest men honest.  Apparently his word was not his bond and not worth shit.  Guys like him that have electronic monitoring shouldn't have it removed until they no longer pose a threat.  Peace bond, my ass...  also reading the Union Station Transit Officers were alerted that they were the suspected target of yesterday.


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## Oldgateboatdriver

_"Well she finally got the nerve to file for divorce 
And she let the law take it from there
But Earl walked right through that restraining order 
And put her in intensive care"_

Dixit the Dixie Chicks.

 :nod:


----------



## mariomike

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> also reading the Union Station Transit Officers were alerted that they were the suspected target of yesterday.



Must be a high priority target. It serves a quarter-million people a day.


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## Lightguns

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> From what I've read, the electronic tracking was removed once the peace bond was issued.  I would say that peace bonds are like padlocks in that they only keep honest men honest.  Apparently his word was not his bond and not worth crap.  Guys like him that have electronic monitoring shouldn't have it removed until they no longer pose a threat.  Peace bond, my ***...  also reading the Union Station Transit Officers were alerted that they were the suspected target of yesterday.



Western Democracy's intellectual inability to deal with terrorists, terrorist wannabes, their doctrine and belief systems makes for interesting dark comedy.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Western Democracy's intellectual inability to deal with terrorists, terrorist wannabes, their doctrine and belief systems makes for interesting dark comedy.



Except, I'm not laughing...


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## Jarnhamar

Lightguns said:
			
		

> I enter lighting off one bomb and trying to light another while be killed by RCMP types as further evidence.



I lean towards being bellicose with this stuff. Obviously everyone is innocent until proven guilty but what irks me is when these guys and girls are on the radar for years and it seems like we only swoop in at the very last minute to adress the situation (and I'm not talking about a useless peace bond).

IMO this guy could have very likely slipped through the RCMP net when they were doing their battle procedure and detonated a bomb in a populated area. I can only imagine the ripple effect a successful attack would have with all the terrorist wannabe assholes who will be emboldened by something like this.  I wouldn't be to impressed if my family was killed after an attack like this especially if the attacker was on the radar for years and guilty of calling for people to be murdered and supporting ISIS or whatever.

I'm not calling for the though police like Europe seems to be going the way of (WRT people being critical of refugees or Islam) but we need to be able to act sooner then when these home grown terrorists are brushing their teeth on the way to detonate themselves.


----------



## George Wallace

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Western Democracy's intellectual inability to deal with terrorists, terrorist wannabes, their doctrine and belief systems makes for interesting dark comedy.



All are protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that we brought in during days when we were much more law abiding and civil.  Times have changed and now we find it being used as a tool in which to undermine and defeat us, the West, in our naive and trusting ways and the beliefs that all societies are as peace loving as ours.

Sadly, there are evil people out there who want to kill us; for whatever reasons.   Evil people who will influence those susceptible to their 'propaganda', to carry out their plans.


----------



## Teager

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Except, I'm not laughing...



Nope and I hope groups like this realize there's reasons for the restrictions put on these people.



> CBC News reached out on Thursday to the Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties, which has criticized the limitations that were imposed on Driver following his arrest.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/terror-threat-arrest-rcmp-1.3715969


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## AbdullahD

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> And this is part of what makes these hard to deal with -- it's possible even if everything's done right, feces occur.  And 1)  fixing the issues with the individuals, and 2)  making it harder for ISIL to be attractive to some people with issues, are both hard to fix. Hell, I'm even having trouble asking the right, precise question for a solution.
> 
> Anyone interested in what buddy had to say for himself while the peace bond was being litigated, see attached TorStar Q&A from last year.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing more, but now, we have one case, here, in a western democracy where it appears someone on a peace bond was still able to make things that go boom, and another case where even being under surveillance (admittedly intermittent) didn't stop planning & execution of an attack.
> 
> I'm not a fan of preventive detention, but these show me surveillance alone doesn't seem to be enough.



What a nutcase, I figured people that openly radical would be in jail already...

Now I understand and love our freedoms here, but this idiot was obviously off his rocker. Maybe jail is to harsh and a state sponsored anti radicalization program has major flaws... but just letting him walk around and plan... now that is scary*.

Abdullah

*I speak in the figurative sense, I am more afraid in dying in a bear attack while out hunting this fall.. but this is worrisome.

Ps at Mr.Wallace mayhap the spirit of the laws need to be looked at and revamped and people like this get nabbed. Right now it sounds like we listen to the technicality of the law and allow nutcases like this to walk free. But at what point do we stop sacrificing freedoms for safety? I hate to say it, but eventually their will be another terrorist attack religiously motivated or not, would it not be more prudent to teach people to fend for themselves in an attack then to curl up and die?

Sorry for typos, put it out quick at work.


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## jollyjacktar

Teager said:
			
		

> Nope and I hope groups like this realize there's reasons for the restrictions put on these people.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/terror-threat-arrest-rcmp-1.3715969



Get naked, put both your hands under your backside, dedicate one for hope and the other for shit.  Observe which one fills up first.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> In this particular case, I am torn in how I feel.  I am glad that the watch list has been reduced by one in a permanent fashion as I'd rather the suspects don't survive their contact with police.  But, the father of this scumbag is or was a CF member, IIRC, and was not egging him on or sharing his viewpoints, ie Khadr clan.  He must be devastated by a son that has gone astray and as a father, I can empathise.



There is that aspect.  However, I'd feel worse for the families of the innocent people he intended to slaughter who would have been devastated.


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## George Wallace

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Ps at Mr.Wallace mayhap the spirit of the laws need to be looked at and revamped and people like this get nabbed. Right now it sounds like we listen to the technicality of the law and allow nutcases like this to walk free. But at what point do we stop sacrificing freedoms for safety? I hate to say it, but eventually their will be another terrorist attack religiously motivated or not, would it not be more prudent to teach people to fend for themselves in an attack then to curl up and die?
> 
> Sorry for typos, put it out quick at work.



It seems that current generations want the Law to be very specific and precise in its wording, so we see Parliament creating specific Laws to cover what have been more general and broad Acts/Laws that were capable of covering changes and interpretation to keep up with the times.  Now with the fine tuning and making of new Laws that are very precise and specific in their intend, we could be finding that they have a "Best Before Date" as the times change and they become irrelevant; a waste of time and efforts of our Lawmakers and in the long run very inefficient.  

At the same time we in our beliefs in the world being as peaceful as our society, have created an idealistic Charter of Rights and Freedoms to protect all from persecution and/or oppression.  The intent was good.  So was the concept of Communism.  We all know that human nature in reality does not make Communism, or even Socialism, practical.  It is that 'human' factor that has permitted our Charter to be abused by many who have found loopholes to promote their own agendas.


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## The Bread Guy

From the public safety minister ...


> “With respect to the police and security actions taken in Canada today, I have discussed the situation with the Prime Minister to confirm that public safety has been and continues to be properly protected.
> 
> There is no greater responsibility of the Government than to keep its citizens safe. Earlier today, the RCMP received credible information regarding a potential terrorist threat and took action to ensure public safety.
> 
> The Government of Canada monitors all potential threats and has robust measures in place to address them. However, Canadians should always remain alert to the danger of terrorism and report any suspicious activity to the National Security Tip Line (1-800-420-5805) or by contacting their local police.
> 
> Any comments on operational details will be made at the appropriate time by the RCMP.
> 
> Canadians can be confident that whenever credible information is obtained about a potential terrorist threat, the RCMP, CSIS and other police and security agencies take the appropriate steps to ensure the safety of this country and its citizens. These agencies conducted themselves effectively in the circumstances that developed today.
> 
> Taking all relevant information into account, the National Terrorism Threat Level for Canada remains at "medium" where it has stood since the fall of 2014.”


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## The Bread Guy

A couple of more interesting tidbits ...

From the RCMP (RCMP Info-machine photos attached):


> On August 10, 2016, the RCMP received information from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) that an unknown individual was in the final stages of planning an attack using a homemade explosive device, likely targeting an urban centre during the morning or afternoon rush hour and within the next 72 hours. Today, the RCMP provided additional details about the incident.
> 
> “The safety and security of Canadian citizens is of the utmost importance to the RCMP. As soon as we received the information, we immediately took the necessary steps to ensure the public’s safety,” said Deputy Commissioner Mike Cabana, Federal Policing. “We actively engaged relevant Canadian law enforcement and security agencies, asking them to exercise an increased level of vigilance and to be on the lookout for anything suspicious.”
> 
> Following the swift efforts of our skilled and experienced investigators as well as our Integrated National Security Enforcement Team (INSET) partners, the suspect was identified as Aaron DRIVER and located in Strathroy, Ontario. DRIVER was known to police and the subject of an 810.011 Peace Bond related to terrorism. Police specialized units including the RCMP Explosives Disposal Unit and Emergency Response Team were deployed to the location of DRIVER’s residence.
> 
> “When he exited a residence on Park Street and entered into a cab, the RCMP’s ERT engaged the suspect, there was a detonation inside the taxi, and the suspect subsequently died following a confrontation with the police,” said Assistant Commissioner Jennifer Strachan, Commanding Officer of O Division (Ontario).
> 
> Investigators worked diligently overnight to gather the evidence however, as this is an ongoing investigation, no additional details can be provided. We encourage Canadians to remain alert and to immediately report any suspicious or unusual behaviour to their local police or by contacting the National Security Information Network at 1-800-420-5805.


This from SITE Intelligence Group:


> Aaron Driver, a 23 year-old Canadian who reportedly attempted to perform a suicide attack in the Ontario town of Strathroy before being killed by police officers on August 10, was a highly active member of the pro-Islamic State (IS) social media community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A report released by IS’ ‘Amaq News Agency the following day identified Driver as a “soldier of the Islamic State.” The message was released shortly after a video surfaced of Driver pledging to IS and threatening Canada: “You will pay for everything you brought us.” ...


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## donaldk

Check out London Ontario's Reddit...  /r/londonontario/

Multiple threads are ongoing about this.


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## Old Sweat

Why the lack of bloodstains?


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## jollyjacktar

What alarms me to some degree is that: 
1. it wasn't picked up by our police and security organs but the FBI. 
2. neighbours heard loud bangs like small explosions in the night a few days before shit went down, and reported it to the police...  so people are doing the "if you see something (or in this case, hear something), say something" which they did to, it seems to me, no effect. 
3. this was someone I would expect, on the watch list.  Was at least electronically monitored until they relaxed their vigilance, just like in Normandy last month, and took off the tracker. 
4. he was another convert to the faith, they for whatever reason seem to be the targetable ones by and large it seems to come to light in the after action breakdown of these assholes and their history.

I could go on with some other things, but will leave it at that as it's not for a public forum and I've addressed it up my chain.


----------



## Haggis

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Why the lack of bloodstains?



Because the whole thing was staged by inept government operatives to allow them to strip us of our freedoms, of course.

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:

... wait.. this isn't the whackjob conspiracy theory thread?  Oops!


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## George Wallace

Haggis said:
			
		

> Because the whole thing was staged by inept government operatives to allow them to strip us of our freedoms, of course.
> 
> :Tin-Foil-Hat:
> 
> ... wait.. this isn't the whackjob conspiracy theory thread?  Oops!



WAIT!

Harper is no longer PM.  That throws the whole "Blame Harper" movement out of the picture.


----------



## George Wallace

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> What alarms me to some degree is that:
> 1. it wasn't picked up by our police and security organs but the FBI.
> 2. neighbours heard loud bangs like small explosions in the night a few days before shit went down, and reported it to the police...  so people are doing the "if you see something (or in this case, hear something), say something" which they did to, it seems to me, no effect.
> 3. this was someone I would expect, on the watch list.  Was at least electronically monitored until they relaxed their vigilance, just like in Normandy last month, and took off the tracker.
> 4. he was another convert to the faith, they for whatever reason seem to be the targetable ones by and large it seems to come to light in the after action breakdown of these assholes and their history.
> 
> I could go on with some other things, but will leave it at that as it's not for a public forum and I've addressed it up my chain.



This is one case where Intelligence was effectively used and brought out into the public limelight.  That you are not privy to all the behind the scenes work that was done, should not cause you to start questions why things did not happen as your imagination thinks they should have.  They may very well have happened.  Should you really be questioning a "successful" intervention of a terrorist act?  We just saw the sharing of information between various Agencies whose jobs are to protect us.  A success story; not a failure like 911 where Agencies did not share what they knew.


----------



## jollyjacktar

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This is one case where Intelligence was effectively used and brought out into the public limelight.  That you are not privy to all the behind the scenes work that was done, should not cause you to start questions why things did not happen as your imagination thinks they should have.  They may very well have happened.  Should you really be questioning a "successful" intervention of a terrorist act?  We just saw the sharing of information between various Agencies whose jobs are to protect us.  A success story; not a failure like 911 where Agencies did not share what they knew.


Maybe so, but my training and former background do cause me to question.  Like it or not.


----------



## cupper

Brihard said:
			
		

> CTV also made reference to CANSOFCOM involvement. My guess would be CJIRU given the threat.



I heard that on NPR this morning too.


----------



## Cloud Cover

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> What alarms me to some degree is that:
> 1. it wasn't picked up by our police and security organs but the FBI.



Sadly, I think believe this is where the encryption debate is going to come into play. In all likelihood, what this lad was doing in public broadcast format (i.e. Twitter public posts) may have been not nearly as informative as what was passing though encrypted channels hosted by companies in the the United States. If he was on the Canadian watch list, he was on the US watch list as well. 

The problem with the Internet is, despite all the ruckus caused by Snowden, the US (and even the FBI) still has far more capacity and capability than Canada to access what is ostensibly hidden. Not because they are better at it, or have more robust laws, but orders from our courts have no force in California and the US has access to the air gap between servers, and what is stored on servers (using appropriate legal authority, of course)  Even Youtube is now encrypting what a person is streaming to their home PC, Google is encrypting search engine sessions (i.e. what you are looking up) and even WhatsApp is now end to end encrypted. All of these companies put us into a blind spot, but to some degree they still have useful data for intelligence collection, sometimes even actual content data. 

So, resources and capacity are a problem, always will be. What does concern me is there is a report that a Mosque in London was working with this person trying to de-radicalize him, and they were very recently expressing concerns after he was on the peace bond.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/london-muslim-mosque-releases-statement-following-strathroy-incident-1.3025216# 

_"Aaron Driver came to the attention of London Muslim Mosque over a year ago after he moved from Winnipeg as part of his peace bond. Mosque officials immediately informed the police of his presence and kept the authorities apprised of their engagement efforts.

The London Muslim community prioritizes the safety of all Canadians and efforts were made to engage Aaron with the hope that the warmth of community involvement and engagement might change his perspective. At all times, the police were updated about these efforts, in addition to their own monitoring. While he had wrong views about the world, at no time did any officials with the Mosque know or suspect that Aaron was translating those views into any kind of attack. He did not display any outward signs of aggression.

The Mosque knew of his views, and chose not to turn a blind eye to the problem of violent extremism. We engaged him with the hope of changing his views on Islam and to show him the true, peaceful nature of our religion. We constantly monitored his activities within the Mosque and did our best to keep the authorities engaged with our activities."_

So, it seems that this person was playing games- acting somewhat compliant but he did seem to even fool the Mosque into thinking he was not the danger that he became after the peace bond was issued.  

Edit: As a person who lives near Strathroy (very near) I would like to thank the London Mosque for their efforts, I am sorry it did not work out for the better. And thank you to the LEA's and the little green men who probably drive past my house on the way to Strathroy.


----------



## a_majoor

How close to home does this get?

London police had cordoned off an area in North West London yesterday evening as part of the investigation into this terror event. I live close to downtown London, and my son had gone to Citi Plaza yesterday afternoon. My wife is still shaking.

As for myself, I can only thank God for sparing so many people here in London this time, and hope that whatever other people were involved (and I am not a believer in "Lone Wolf" attacks, when you look into it there is usually a small cell of enablers) get rounded up as well.


----------



## George Wallace

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Maybe so, but my training and former background do cause me to question.  Like it or not.



No problem.  My former background gave me enough exposure to the fringes of events to now know that there is always a lot more to what is going on than what we hear about.  In fact much more is happening that we will never hear about.  As well the necessity to know and execute the formulation of questions, delegation of tasks, and gathering info as part of the job to decipher what various COAs could be.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Sometimes, it pays to look at things in the simplest form you can;  whatever the hostile intentions were, they were stopped before he was able to execute.  That makes this a 'win' in my books.  I also do things in my job that I know about because "I need to" that most of the CAF, let alone any police force or the public, will have no eyes on.  I don't want people second guessing how I do that job/mission/whatever (because they don't understand the how, the why and all the moving parts).

In incidents like these, I remind myself I shouldn't do the second guessing, because I don't know the how's, why's and all the moving parts.  An enemy was neutralized before innocent lives were taken.  I'm happy to call this a success.   :2c:


----------



## George Wallace

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> What alarms me to some degree is that:
> 1. it wasn't picked up by our police and security organs but the FBI.



Remember that CSE and CSIS are specifically mandated NOT to spy on Canadians.  That would be the likely reason the FBI passed on info to the RCMP that NSA or CIA had likely in turn have passed on to them.  The Americans likely have deployed a vastly larger effort towards cyber security and intelligence gathering than we have and likely are much quicker to find and explore sites and addresses frequently posting security threats.  It is a loophole that we can legally use in cases like this -- We did not spy on a Canadian; the Americans did and they informed us of a "Threat".

All the makings of a Tom Clancy novel.


----------



## PuckChaser

There's a difference between spying on, and passing open source intelligence on to Canadian authorities. The FBI likely saw the video, analyzed it to determine person was likely Canadian, and immediately handed off.


----------



## GAP

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There's a difference between spying on, and passing open source intelligence on to Canadian authorities. The FBI likely saw the video, analyzed it to determine person was likely Canadian, and immediately handed off.



or they checked out the IP address.....


----------



## PuckChaser

GAP said:
			
		

> or they checked out the IP address.....


Which could mean very little, it's extremely easy to use proxy services to hide your actual location.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> ... there is a report that a Mosque in London was working with this person trying to de-radicalize him, and they were very recently expressing concerns after he was on the peace bond.
> 
> http://london.ctvnews.ca/london-muslim-mosque-releases-statement-following-strathroy-incident-1.3025216#
> 
> _"Aaron Driver came to the attention of London Muslim Mosque over a year ago after he moved from Winnipeg as part of his peace bond. Mosque officials immediately informed the police of his presence and kept the authorities apprised of their engagement efforts.
> 
> The London Muslim community prioritizes the safety of all Canadians and efforts were made to engage Aaron with the hope that the warmth of community involvement and engagement might change his perspective. At all times, the police were updated about these efforts, in addition to their own monitoring. While he had wrong views about the world, at no time did any officials with the Mosque know or suspect that Aaron was translating those views into any kind of attack. He did not display any outward signs of aggression.
> 
> The Mosque knew of his views, and chose not to turn a blind eye to the problem of violent extremism. We engaged him with the hope of changing his views on Islam and to show him the true, peaceful nature of our religion. We constantly monitored his activities within the Mosque and did our best to keep the authorities engaged with our activities."_


Here's the mosque's full statement (also attached - FB version here):


> In light of (Wednesday's) events in Strathroy, involving an individual who was previously known to authorities, London's Muslim community expresses its appreciation to law enforcement officials for keeping our community safe.
> 
> Aaron Driver came to the attention of London Muslim Mosque over a year ago after he moved from Winnipeg as part of his peace bond. Mosque officials immediately informed the police of his presence and kept the authorities apprised of their engagement efforts.
> 
> The London Muslim community prioritizes the safety of all Canadians and efforts were made to engage Aaron with the hope that the warmth of community involvement and engagement might change his perspective. At all times, the police were updated about these efforts, in addition to their own monitoring. While he had wrong views about the world, at no time did any officials with the Mosque know or suspect that Aaron was translating those views into any kind of attack. He did not display any outward signs of aggression.
> 
> The Mosque knew of his views, and chose not to turn a blind eye to the problem of violent extremism. We engaged him with the hope of changing his views on Islam and to show him the true, peaceful nature of our religion. We constantly monitored his activities within the Mosque and did our best to keep the authorities engaged with our activities.
> 
> The London Muslim Mosque, and the London Muslim community reiterate that Islamic teachings forbid violent acts against innocent people or interfering with the sanctity of life. "With the strongest of language, as a community, we condemn any form of extremist or radical behaviour as being contrary to the teachings of Islam," states Nawaz Tahir, spokesperson for London Muslim Mosque. "Such behaviour has no place in our community, and cannot be tolerated," he added. The Mosque looks forward to further working with authorities and the community to develop new mechanisms to counter violent extremism.
> 
> Earlier today, London Mayor Matt Brown reached out to Muslim leaders to reaffirm his commitment to working with the mosque in combatting Islamophobia. “I’ve worked with the London Mosque for many years and strongly believe that at times like this we need to stand together. I applaud the mosque for working with our police partners to keep our community safe.”
> 
> At least 30,000 Muslims make London their home - working and contributing to the greater London community. The safety and security of the community that we live in and the community that our children live in is of paramount importance.
> 
> London Muslim Mosque was the first mosque built in Ontario in 1964 and serves over 30,000 Muslims in the London and surrounding area.


----------



## Edward Campbell

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Remember that CSE and CSIS are specifically mandated NOT to spy on Canadians.  That would be the likely reason the FBI passed on info to the RCMP that NSA or CIA had likely in turn have passed on to them.  The Americans likely have deployed a vastly larger effort towards cyber security and intelligence gathering than we have and likely are much quicker to find and explore sites and addresses frequently posting security threats.  It is a loophole that we can legally use in cases like this -- We did not spy on a Canadian; the Americans did and they informed us of a "Threat".
> 
> All the makings of a Tom Clancy novel.




It's just a tiny bit more complicated than that. This, from CSE, explains how that agency balances its SIGINT mission with legal and privacy issues.

Also everyone should remember, when speculating about e.g. CSE, that ...


----------



## jollyjacktar

George Wallace said:
			
		

> No problem.  My former background gave me enough exposure to the fringes of events to now know that there is always a lot more to what is going on than what we hear about.  In fact much more is happening that we will never hear about.  As well the necessity to know and execute the formulation of questions, delegation of tasks, and gathering info as part of the job to decipher what various COAs could be.



Without question.  I too have seen the inside of the machine while in operation and there are many, many gears spinning that are not visible on the outside.  My points were more along the lines, of the similarities to other events in Europe such as people saying something and it being missed by the police, for whatever reason.  Electronic monitoring of shitheads like Driver being relaxed, allowing them to start their ops.  Albeit a lucky break with a tip from another outCan agency and swift action here at home, we didn't feel the nibble on the hook and line at first.  I'm not dissing all the hard work and effort that went into stopping him cold and I salute them all. 

I'm just a little concerned that some small things are slipping though the cracks (especially taking off the electronic gear from watch list class people).  You know the old adage, for the want of a nail, a horseshoe was lost...  and we have to be lucky all of the time, dickheads like Driver only need one time.  Luck tends to run out after a time.


----------



## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There's a difference between spying on, and passing open source intelligence on to Canadian authorities. The FBI likely saw the video, analyzed it to determine person was likely Canadian, and immediately handed off.



At the same time, the necessity of having a Warrant by the LEOs to conduct many of their duties in investigations can hamstring their efforts.  Open Source can only provide so much information.  Even with the passage of/notification of his video by the FBI, the RCMP had to deploy large number of resources to identify the subject and location.  That they were successful in tracking him is quite a feat.


----------



## a_majoor

I will have to disagree with you on the warrant thing, George. What makes liberal democracies like Canada different from places like Turkey, Russia or Venezuela is the "Rule of Law" and the requirement to show cause before taking actions against citizens.

Allowing arbitrary State power to decide who is a "threat" and to unilaterally take action is the fast road to dictatorship, and can be very easily be manipulated to deploy State power against people for political ends. The unsavoury attempts to quash "due process" in American Colleges and universities through Title IX Kangaroo courts for victims of sexual assault, or our own experience in Canada with Human Rights Tribunals should be unsettling enough. If you think that *we* are in no danger, stop and re read this site. Many of the opinions expressed by many of the posters (and yes, including myself) could be potentially marked as "hateful" or "xxxphobic" or whatever weasel word is in vogue, and then you or I could get sucked into a process which would at the very least cause massive financial hardship, hurt our chances at employment and affect our ability to communicate in public. I for one am not willing to see civil liberties eroded to that extent even in the face of terrorism.

And I say this as a father who potentially could have lost his son at Citi Plaza on the 10th. I want to live as a free man, and also that my children will live as free citizens in a liberal democratic society. I didn't spend my adult life as a soldier guarding these liberties just to casually give them away.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Fair enough, but when a valid threat is identified (such as this scumbag) and said threats are proven in a court of law, then society should be adequately protected.  The courts are too lenient on these people once convicted.  Stop being such panty waists and do what is necessary.


----------



## jmt18325

George Wallace said:
			
		

> All are protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that we brought in during days when we were much more law abiding and civil.


Or not:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2015001-eng.htm


----------



## mariomike

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Stop being such panty waists and do what is necessary.


----------



## jmt18325

George Wallace said:
			
		

> At the same time, the necessity of having a Warrant by the LEOs to conduct many of their duties in investigations can hamstring their efforts.



Good - for every would be terrorist event, there are hundreds of chances for police to abuse our Constitutional rights if we give them warrant-less power.  I'm not anti police at all, but context is important - we're pretty safe, even with things like this.


----------



## jmt18325

Thucydides said:
			
		

> I will have to disagree with you on the warrant thing, George. What makes liberal democracies like Canada different from places like Turkey, Russia or Venezuela is the "Rule of Law" and the requirement to show cause before taking actions against citizens.
> 
> Allowing arbitrary State power to decide who is a "threat" and to unilaterally take action is the fast road to dictatorship, and can be very easily be manipulated to deploy State power against people for political ends. The unsavoury attempts to quash "due process" in American Colleges and universities through Title IX Kangaroo courts for victims of sexual assault, or our own experience in Canada with Human Rights Tribunals should be unsettling enough. If you think that *we* are in no danger, stop and re read this site. Many of the opinions expressed by many of the posters (and yes, including myself) could be potentially marked as "hateful" or "xxxphobic" or whatever weasel word is in vogue, and then you or I could get sucked into a process which would at the very least cause massive financial hardship, hurt our chances at employment and affect our ability to communicate in public. I for one am not willing to see civil liberties eroded to that extent even in the face of terrorism.
> 
> And I say this as a father who potentially could have lost his son at Citi Plaza on the 10th. I want to live as a free man, and also that my children will live as free citizens in a liberal democratic society. I didn't spend my adult life as a soldier guarding these liberties just to casually give them away.



Bravo.  I couldn't agree more.  With freedom (measured as we have it) you have to accept a certain amount of risk.  That's reality.  I don't want to give the police or governments the power to do as they please.  They won't all be as benevolent as the last century has given us.


----------



## jmt18325

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Fair enough, but when a valid threat is identified (such as this scumbag) and said threats are proven in a court of law, then society should be adequately protected.  The courts are too lenient on these people once convicted.  Stop being such panty waists and do what is necessary.



This guy wasn't convicted though.  A peace bond was a way to show them doing something - anything.  It actually weakened their ability to monitor him, as it removed the ankle bracelet.  The evidence was obviously pretty shaky.


----------



## dapaterson

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> The evidence was obviously pretty shaky.



Not necessarily.  Sometimes, intelligence services have information that is compelling but not admissible in court.


----------



## YZT580

I would say the evidence was rather convincing.  After all, how many people take a cab ride with a IED in their briefcase?  It is a very fine line between diligent oversight and the start of oppression.  Bravo on the authorities and those in the US who were able to tread that fine line.  It is unfortunate that it led to a death but that outcome became inevitable


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> This guy wasn't convicted though.  A peace bond was a way to show them doing something - anything.  It actually weakened their ability to monitor him, as it removed the ankle bracelet.  The evidence was obviously pretty shaky.



Or the laws are weak, or a combination of both.

OR you could look past the 'not convicted' part, and remember that in the end, he took (unknown to us what kind) actions that lead to him being taken down with lethal force.  But ya, other than that...there's not much eh?  Just that small "brought about his own demise".  

Or are we going to suggest that the lethal action taken wasn't justified.  If so, I hope who ever does reads the post above about kangaroo courts and stuff above...

Anyone...ANYONE..who sticks up for this POS who advocated for the deaths of Canadian military and police members is right out of 'er as far as I'm concerned.  Respect the laws of a civil society and you have no issues, right?  He didn't.  He brought about his own end.  Let's not go off into the peckerbrush relating this to dictatorships and all that stuff.  The guy was a POS who went looking for trouble and found it.


----------



## George Wallace

OK....Let's get something straight here.  When I made this statement, it is not a statement advocating that the LEOs should not need a Warrant to perform their duties.  It is a statement that says that the process of obtaining a Warrant can sometime hamstring the LEOs from a timely arrest or take down of criminals/terrorists/law breakers.  It has on occasion permitted suspects to escape the Law.  



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> At the same time, the necessity of having a Warrant by the LEOs to conduct many of their duties in investigations can hamstring their efforts.



Do not misconstrue that statement.  They still need to follow due process under the Law.


----------



## jollyjacktar

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> This guy wasn't convicted though.  A peace bond was a way to show them doing something - anything.  It actually weakened their ability to monitor him, as it removed the ankle bracelet.  The evidence was obviously pretty shaky.



I don't know if dickhead was on the watch list that does exist, if not he should have been.  Getting on that list takes effort on your part, you shouldn't arrive on it without careful consideration by proper authority of your actions in the past, present and expectations of the future.  If you make the grade, then as far as I am concerned the Eye of Sauron should fall upon thee, be it electronic leash or other effective method.  You should have the least amount of opportunity to stray off the path and commence with what you've been espousing such as this week or in Normandy with the execution of the Priest.  

If we cannot manage to keep them out of trouble here then I would rather see them go to whatever hell hole they believe is just dandy and fulfil a role as the aiming marker for some sort of airstrike.


----------



## George Wallace

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Or not:
> 
> http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2015001-eng.htm



I don't think you grasped the point being made, but OK.


----------



## jmt18325

YZT580 said:
			
		

> I would say the evidence was rather convincing.  After all, how many people take a cab ride with a IED in their briefcase?  It is a very fine line between diligent oversight and the start of oppression.  Bravo on the authorities and those in the US who were able to tread that fine line.  It is unfortunate that it led to a death but that outcome became inevitable



Sorry - I'm talking about when the Peace Bond was ordered, without the benefit of hindsight.


----------



## jmt18325

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Or the laws are weak, or a combination of both.
> 
> OR you could look past the 'not convicted' part, and remember that in the end, he took (unknown to us what kind) actions that lead to him being taken down with lethal force.  But ya, other than that...there's not much eh?  Just that small "brought about his own demise".



Again, that's with the benefit of hindsight.  When the Peace Bond was ordered, that wasn't the case.  The evidence presented in court was not enough for anything beyond that.  The law is sometimes a weakness, but it's our greatest strength.



> Anyone...ANYONE..who sticks up for this POS who advocated for the deaths of Canadian military and police members is right out of 'er as far as I'm concerned.



There's no need for a straw man.  No one did that.


----------



## jmt18325

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't think you grasped the point being made, but OK.



The point was that we were more willing to follow the laws.  Not quite, it seems.


----------



## jmt18325

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I don't know if fool was on the watch list that does exist, if not he should have been.



I agree with that.  The authorities, it seems, were unable to present a case that the judge saw as warranting such action.


----------



## The Bread Guy

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> This guy wasn't convicted though.


Even if this guy had no peace bonds against him, even if he had no record, if police saw a threat (don't know the specific legal terms), they have ROE to deal with that threat without having to go to court.


			
				jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Again, that's with the benefit of hindsight.  When the Peace Bond was ordered, that wasn't the case.  The evidence presented in court was not enough for anything beyond that.  The law is sometimes a weakness, but it's our greatest strength.


But the court proceedings from last year and earlier this year didn't consider *what happened this week* when police became engaged with this individual.  I wasn't there this week, but _maybe_ the police's response would have been different if the guy's behaviour was different.

No matter what happened in court, even if nothing happened in court, police can respond to threats without the use of force having to be brought to court for approval.  Or, to put it differently, if someone's breaking into your house, do the cops have to go to court to deal with the robber as s/he's breaking in?


----------



## George Wallace

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> The point was that we were more willing to follow the laws.  Not quite, it seems.



My point was probably not worded correctly enough, in order to allude more to our society following more "rule of Law" than some Third World Dictatorship; not a comment on crime statistics.


----------



## jmt18325

George Wallace said:
			
		

> My point was probably not worded correctly enough, in order to allude more to our society following more "rule of Law" than some Third World Dictatorship; not a comment on crime statistics.



Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Again, that's with the benefit of hindsight.  When the Peace Bond was ordered, that wasn't the case.  The evidence presented in court was not enough for anything beyond that.  The law is sometimes a weakness, but it's our greatest strength.



I've seen instances, though, where a law was clearly broken but the judge gave the accused the benefit of the doubt and a peace bond was used instead of charges that 'served the interest of law and public'.  It was a domestic incident (not involving me, I attended the court in a support to the victim role), but perhaps the principles of use are the same in Canada across the spectrum of law?  



> There's no need for a straw man.  No one did that.



I was just making my opinion known.   8)


----------



## jmt18325

That doesn't seem to be at all the situation.


----------



## Mick

Just to comment on an earlier post: while CSEC is legally barred from intercepting communications within Canada, no such restriction exists for CSIS, which is mandated to perform its duties within, and outside of Canada.

CSIS is able to investigate and collect information on threats to Canada and Canadians, and is not restricted from investigating Canadian citizens.

While the RCMP was the lead agency in the operation being discussed, CSIS was undoubtedly keeping tabs on Driver.

Furthermore, the latest RCMP news release makes reference to INSET (Integrated National Security Enforcement Teams) involvement, of which CSIS is a contributing agency.

It makes sense, however, that the FBI contacted the RCMP about an imminent threat as they have an enforcement role, while CSIS does not.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> That doesn't seem to be at all the situation.



We don't have the facts in 'whatever the reality was', no?  I don't need to know them.  A threat was taken out.  I don't give 2 flying fucks whether there was 'enough evidence' to warrant XYZ.  At the end of the day, he was a legitimate threat taken out, for good.  No more worrying about legal this and that.  I'm happy with this end state.


----------



## Inspir

mick said:
			
		

> It makes sense, however, that the FBI contacted the RCMP about an imminent threat as they have an enforcement role, while CSIS does not.



You wouldn't really have the RCMP contacting the CIA if roles were reversed.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Why is it that every time someone murders other people "in the name of Islam" so many people immediately rally behind "mental illness"?  I think I read the comment on army.ca somewhere.  I'll paraphrase -Only in the west (or Canada?) can you pick your own gender but aren't believed when you call yourself a terrorist.

It's ridiculous.


----------



## Halifax Tar

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Why is it that every time someone murders other people "in the name of Islam" so many people immediately rally behind "mental illness"?  I think I read the comment on army.ca somewhere.  I'll paraphrase -Only in the west (or Canada?) can you pick your own gender but aren't believed when you call yourself a terrorist.
> 
> It's ridiculous.



 :goodpost:


----------



## Remius

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Why is it that every time someone murders other people "in the name of Islam" so many people immediately rally behind "mental illness"?  I think I read the comment on army.ca somewhere.  I'll paraphrase -Only in the west (or Canada?) can you pick your own gender but aren't believed when you call yourself a terrorist.
> 
> It's ridiculous.



On the same note though when someone says God told them to do it, historically we've always assumed they are nuts.  My question is why can't it be both?


----------



## George Wallace

Remius said:
			
		

> On the same note though when someone says God told them to do it, historically we've always assumed they are nuts.  My question is why can't it be both?



I am leaning in that direction as well.  I 'think' the majority of these guys, like serial killers and others who commit acts against innocents, all have to have a 'screw loose' to commit such atrocities against others.


----------



## George Wallace

Inspir said:
			
		

> You wouldn't really have the RCMP contacting the CIA if roles were reversed.



They likely have close communications with the FBI and Homeland, though.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

mick said:
			
		

> Just to comment on an earlier post: while CSEC is legally barred from intercepting communications within Canada, no such restriction exists for CSIS, which is mandated to perform its duties within, and outside of Canada.



From the  CSE website:

"Under the third part of its mandate in the National Defence Act, CSE is authorized to provide technical and operational assistance to federal law enforcement and security agencies in the performance of their lawful duties. This is also known as part C of CSE’s mandate, or our "assistance mandate.""
.
.
.

"In assisting, CSE acts under the legal authority of the requesting agency it is assisting and is also subject to any restrictions on or conditions of that authority. This authorization is usually through a warrant issued by a court.

CSE may assist in various ways, such as collecting and processing communications, providing linguistic support, or designing technical solutions."

"Who are the federal law enforcement and security agencies that CSE assists?

A federal law enforcement or security agency is a federal organization with a mandate to enforce the law or responsibilities related to security, such as the RCMP, CSIS and the Canada Border Services Agency. CSE may not provide assistance to Government of Canada departments or agencies that do not have a federal law enforcement or security function."



> It makes sense, however, that the FBI contacted the RCMP about an imminent threat as they have an enforcement role, while CSIS does not.



The FBI contacted CSIS because (a) its the Canadian counterpart to the FBI, and (b) CSIS is the lead agency that investigates terrorist related activity in Canada.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> They likely have close communications with the FBI and Homeland, though.



"Travel expenses

For:	R. B. Rogerson – Assistant Commissioner, Technical Operations
Purpose:	Liaison visit with US DHS and FBI
Date(s):	2005-09-29 to 2005-09-30
Destination(s):	Quantico, Virginia USA"

 Link


----------



## Cloud Cover

And of course, this is all Stephen Harpers fault: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mother-of-man-killed-in-syria-says-feds-failed-aaron-driver-1.3027521

"Boudreau had been critical of the government of former prime minister Stephen Harper, saying its approach to dealing with radicalization was based on fear.
She'd hoped for better from the Trudeau government, but says it appears the Liberals are denying that radicalized youth are a problem."

Quite the opposite, the Liberals are seeking to convert "radicalized youth" .... into Liberals.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Article Link

The scary reality of terrorism in Canada

It took luck and a tip from the FBI to stop Aaron Driver. The peace bond restriction on him was, in the end, just a piece a paper.

Michael Friscolanti
August 12, 2016 

The phone rang at 8:30 Wednesday morning—and from that moment, the clock started ticking. “A race against time,” to borrow the words of RCMP Deputy Commissioner Mike Cabana.

On the other end of the line was an agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, calling to warn the Mounties about a chilling discovery: in a dark corner of the Internet (exactly where has yet to be disclosed), the FBI stumbled upon an ISIS-inspired martyrdom video, starring a mystery man wearing a black balaclava. The would-be terrorist was planning an “imminent” attack, the agent said, location unknown.

“Oh Canada, you received many warnings,” says the masked man, his camera rolling. “You were told many times what will become of those who fight against the Islamic State…There is a fire burning in the chest of every Muslim, and this fire can be cooled only by the spilling of your blood.” He finishes his two-minute rant by pledging allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Islamic State, who “has called for jihad in the lands of the crusaders.”

“I’m responding to this call,” the man says.

Over the next two hours, the RCMP and CSIS, Canada’s spy agency, pored over hundreds of photos in their investigative files, scrambling to figure out the man’s identity—and where he might be. By 11:00 a.m., authorities were fairly certain they’d found their match: Aaron Driver, 24, a Saskatchewan-born Muslim convert who was anything but a stranger to Canada’s national security apparatus.

Many people did not die on Wednesday because police and spies did their jobs in rapid time, swooping in to prevent a catastrophe. Driver, it turned out, was on the verge of attempting mass murder, and when he called for a taxi at 4:00 p.m.—explosives in tow—heavily armed officers were camped outside his house, ready to take him down. “Some amazing work went on,” said RCMP Assistant Commissioner Jennifer Strachan. “The fact that a call happened at 8:30 in the morning, and by 11:00 we feel we had someone identified and we were moving on it, to me is incredible. The sure fact was: if he had gotten out of that residence before we got there, the scenario would have ended a lot of differently.”

Of course, it also would have ended a lot differently if Aaron Driver hadn’t been arrogant and careless, posting his videotaped pledge in advance of his planned attack. Or if the FBI had never noticed the video in the first place, prompting that life-saving tip. Dogged police work saved the day, no doubt, but so did a good bit of luck.

“Let’s look at this from the positive side and the not-so-positive side,” says Phil Gurski, a former intelligence analyst at CSIS, and the author of The Threat from Within: Recognizing Al Qaeda-Inspired Radicalization and Terrorism in the West. “The positive side is that the FBI is an amazing partner of the RCMP and CSIS; it is an excellent relationship and there are constant exchanges of intelligence. But I can only imagine that in the highest echelons of CSIS and the RCMP, there is a lot of soul searching: ‘OK, we’ve done good. But what did we miss—and how can we ensure we don’t miss it next time?’ ”

Like the video, for example. It’s now clear that no official on the Canadian side of the border had any idea that Driver—an Islamist extremist well-known to police, arrested last year on suspicion of terrorism, and living under a court-ordered peace bond in small-town Strathroy, Ont., where he was forbidden (theoretically) from possessing explosives or using the Internet—had filmed his final words and was poised to target innocent civilians. At a press conference Thursday afternoon, Deputy Commissioner Cabana was asked the obvious question: Why did it take a tip from the FBI to stop a would-be terrorist in Canada, and what does that say about our country’s ability to combat terrorism?

“It goes both ways,” he replied. “Sometimes we share information with the Americans that allows them to take action with respect to some of their targets, some of their investigations; sometimes they share information with us that allows us to take action, as was the case [Wednesday]. So I don’t think it says anything about the abilities of the Canadian security agencies.”

He is right. Every day, both nations share valuable, sensitive intelligence, and although most exchanges never make headlines, it’s safe to assume the FBI has thanked the Mounties more than once for a timely tip. Still, the bigger issue remains: regardless of who found the video, it led Canadian authorities straight to a man who was already on their radar—a self-admitted ISIS sympathizer who posed enough of a potential threat that he was slapped with parole-like conditions aimed at keeping him contained. How, then, did he come so close to killing so many? Was nobody watching this guy?

Like so much else in the murky world of anti-terrorism, the answer is hardly simple. Bottom line: Aaron Driver was one of many, many suspects known to CSIS and the RCMP, and monitoring each one, full-time, is wishful thinking, even if they are bound by the restrictions of a peace bond. “If the suggestion is that Mr. Driver was under constant surveillance, I can tell you that was not the case,” Cabana told reporters. “Mr. Driver was one individual among others that have potentially criminal intentions, and our ability to monitor people 24 hours a day and seven days a week simply does not exist. We can’t do that.”

The only surefire way to thwart a terrorist attack is to jail said terrorist, but criminal charges require a high threshold of proof that is extremely difficult to meet (beyond a reasonable doubt). The Criminal Code does allow for temporary “preventive detention” in urgent circumstances, but it’s not clear whether police have ever exercised that power. The other alternative (though definitely not foolproof) is a peace bond, like the one Driver was supposed to follow.

Used increasingly in anti-terror cases (nearly 20, at last count), peace bonds allow police to impose strict living conditions on a suspect without having to meet a high burden of proof. Authorities must simply convince a judge that they have reasonable grounds to believe a person may commit a terrorist offence, and if the court agrees, it will impose bail-like conditions on the target before setting him free.

In Driver’s case, there was plenty of evidence to warrant such a bond: Twitter posts praising ISIS atrocities. Frequent online contact with other well-known extremists. A recipe for homemade bombs stored on his hard drive. Speaking to the Toronto Star in early 2015 (under his pseudonym, Harun Abdurahman), Driver justified the October 2014 terrorist attacks that killed one soldier near Parliament Hill and another in the parking lot of a Quebec mall. “They weren’t attacks on civilians or attacks on women and children,” he said. “They were attacks on uniformed soldiers and members of the government.”

Arrested in June 2015, his original bond dictated that he wear an electronic monitoring bracelet and attend religious counseling. But his lawyer filed a constitutional challenge—and won—convincing a judge that Driver should not be forced to undergo such counseling. In February, a new peace bond was issued; Driver was no longer required to wear the monitoring device, but he had to keep the peace, stay off social media, avoid firearms and explosives, and refrain from speaking to anyone with links to Islamic State. Living with his sister in Strathroy, he also had to report to police twice a month.

In hindsight, those stipulations were nothing more than a piece of paper. The peace bond did not stop Driver from going online, getting in touch with ISIS associates, and acquiring explosives. “We have to ask ourselves a very serious question: Are peace bonds a sufficient tool to deal with terrorism?” Gurski says. “What does this mean for the other guys on peace bonds? Are they going to reassess those? We did a good job this time, but what if he’d gone through? What if he’d been successful?”

Here’s another difficult question: Realistically, what more could authorities have done? Driver’s behaviour was alarming enough to pursue that peace bond, but until he donned his black balaclava and pressed record, his behaviour never ventured into criminal territory worthy of charges. And with finite resources—and a long list of ever-evolving threats coming to their attention—CSIS and the RCMP can’t give each one the same undivided attention.

Translation: there are other targets out there considered far more dangerous than Aaron Driver.

Anti-terrorism is hardly an exact science, and never will be. Police officers and intelligence analysts are constantly assessing and reassessing what they know, what they don’t know, and what falls in between—and for the most part, Canada’s national-security apparatus has a record worth boasting about. And yes, sometimes even the best can use a little luck.

Ralph Goodale, the Liberal Public Safety Minister, probably summed it up best during his Thursday news conference: “I want to thank the FBI for their assistance.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaron Driver's Video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhPKTXw1-U

LIke I said;  I won't lose a wink of sleep this POS is out of play now.


----------



## jmt18325

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> We don't have the facts in 'whatever the reality was', no?  I don't need to know them.  A threat was taken out.  I don't give 2 flying ****s whether there was 'enough evidence' to warrant XYZ.



Well I certainly do.  I enjoy living in a country of law and order.  I don't feel the RCMP did anything wrong.  What I'm arguing against is the idea that the police should have sweeping powers to monitor people based on poorly evidences suspicion.


----------



## George Wallace

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Well I certainly do.  I enjoy living in a country of law and order.  I don't feel the RCMP did anything wrong.  What I'm arguing against is the idea that the police should have sweeping powers to monitor people based on poorly evidences suspicion.



And where have we seen in this case any of this which you are "arguing against"?  Looks like you are just making up an argument to suit your own personal agenda and one which has nothing to do with this case.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Well I certainly do.  I enjoy living in a country of law and order.  I don't feel the RCMP did anything wrong.  What I'm arguing against is the idea that the police should have sweeping powers to monitor people based on poorly evidences suspicion.



You're suggesting that there was no evidence as a 'fact'.  There was evidence for the court to ORDER a peace bond.  And, it didn't work.  

Just for clarity..do you feel Aaron Driver, with what was known and is being released publicly against him, fits the "poorly evidenced suspicions" category?  

Or is this a straw man thing like you brought up earlier?


----------



## George Wallace

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> And of course, this is all Stephen Harpers fault: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mother-of-man-killed-in-syria-says-feds-failed-aaron-driver-1.3027521
> 
> "Boudreau had been critical of the government of former prime minister Stephen Harper, saying its approach to dealing with radicalization was based on fear.
> She'd hoped for better from the Trudeau government, but says it appears the Liberals are denying that radicalized youth are a problem."
> 
> Quite the opposite, the Liberals are seeking to convert "radicalized youth" .... into Liberals.



Parenting is not an easy job; and I have to ask: How many mothers blame the Federal Government for their children growing up to be thugs, serial killers, bank robbers or any other class of anti-social or criminal type?  To blame Harper or the Federal Government for a person becoming radicalized is absurd.


----------



## Jarnhamar

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Well I certainly do.  I enjoy living in a country of law and order.  I don't feel the RCMP did anything wrong.  What I'm arguing against is the idea that the police should have sweeping powers to monitor people *based on poorly evidences suspicion*.



Do you call openly supporting ISIS and calling for them to murder Canadian police officers and soldiers poor evidence of intent?

*cross posted with EITS


----------



## cupper

All I can say is if Trump wins, I guess Canada will be on the list of places where terrorists are active and we will all be banned from entering the US.  :nod:


----------



## jmt18325

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> You're suggesting that there was no evidence as a 'fact'.  There was evidence for the court to ORDER a peace bond.  And, it didn't work.




A peace bond is something that the courts do when they know they should do something, but don't really have much evidence with which to do anything.  I've seen it used this way on multiple occasions.

My opinion is the Aaron Driver should have been in jail.  It seems that was the opinion of the court and police.  It also seems that they couldn't come up with the evidence to make that happen.


----------



## jmt18325

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Do you call openly supporting ISIS and calling for them to murder Canadian police officers and soldiers poor evidence of intent?



I wouldn't call that evidence of much in the way of intent.  I would say that such evidence should have been enough to do more than a peace bond.  It seems that it wasn't.


----------



## jmt18325

George Wallace said:
			
		

> And where have we seen in this case any of this which you are "arguing against"?  Looks like you are just making up an argument to suit your own personal agenda and one which has nothing to do with this case.



What we know is this - Aaron Driver was placed under the conditions of a peace bond.  If there has been evidence to do more, I have to hope that the authorities would have done more.

My disgust with what Driver did and was going to do does not change my view that we need to follow our own rules, no matter the danger, no matter the constraint.  I fear tyranny far more than I fear terrorism.


----------



## The Bread Guy

George Wallace said:
			
		

> To blame Harper or the Federal Government for a person becoming radicalized is absurd.


Agree or disagree with the government of the moment, bang on -- while governments can do _some_ things about _some_ factors, there's a _lot_ more going on with someone who is not dealing well with life on a rough path becoming a franchise terrorist.


----------



## jmt18325

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Agree or disagree with the government of the moment, bang on -- while governments can do _some_ things about _some_ factors, there's a _lot_ more going on with someone who is not dealing well with life on a rough path becoming a franchise terrorist.



I totally agree with that.  Blaming government of any stripe for this is misinformed, to say the least.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> What we know is this - Aaron Driver was placed under the conditions of a peace bond.  If there has been evidence to do more, I have to hope that the authorities would have done more. that was as useless as if he were made to wear bunny slippers to bed at night.  In the end he almost succeeded with a plan to slaughter innocent Canadians.



FTFY  




> My disgust with what Driver did and was going to do does not change my view that we need to follow our own rules, no matter the danger, no matter the constraint.  I fear tyranny far more than I fear terrorism.



Hardly a realistic fear in Canada.

My job, at times, is to hunt the Boogeyman in his own backyard.  I'd MUCH rather deploy there and do that there, than have to do it on home soil.  Give the people who are protecting homeplate the rules and tools that enables them to keep Canadians safe in their own backyards.  

Next time, we might be so lucky and/or the enemy might not be so careless.   :2c:


----------



## Jarnhamar

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> I wouldn't call that evidence of much in the way of intent. * I would say that such evidence should have been enough to do more than a peace bond.  It seems that it wasn't.*



Perhaps it has something to do with our seemingly intrinsic response to blame everything except Islam when someone says they're murdering people in the name of Islam.  Maybe the judge was following Europe's lead.

All respect to LEOs and their swift response which undoubtedly saved lives but also the end result of this isn't really because we're awesome or prepared it's because the bad guy fucked up.


----------



## jmt18325

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Hardly a realistic fear in Canada.



Anywhere that humans are in charge, that is a realistic fear.  Giving the police or government more power to use preemptive methods could be dangerous in the long term.

Again, I agree that the Peace Bond was useless and that Aaron Driver was a bad guy.


----------



## Cloud Cover

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> [
> LIke I said;  I won't lose a wink of sleep this POS is out of play now.



The video script clearly provided by a third party. So, he was in communications with someone...

Let's not forget he was the son of a very good man, whose family is grieving. Aaron Driver was prevented from carrying out his awful deed, but I will say that I wish that his family, if they choose to do so, have an opportunity to bury him in peace, to grieve the loss of a son, a Canadian son, a loss that started many years ago and finally ended with this. And may they receive all the support, care and understanding that they deserve.  We can hold Aaron accountable for what happened, but there are other evil people in the world who coached this young man, and we need to get focussed on those people and deal with them as sharply and severely as if they were in that cab with him, because, after all, they were in his head. It's too bad our F-18's are not in place to dedicate a 2000lb GFY to ISIL on behalf of Aaron's dad.


----------



## Cloud Cover

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Next time, we might be so lucky and/or the enemy might not be so careless.   :2c:



And that's exactly right, but I would say that the enemy is clearly now operating somewhat freely within our borders and inside our communities. It matters not that they are exploiting the young, the vulnerable and the crazy.* What matters is they are recruiting and trying to sending troops, one at a time, to attack. C-51 attempted to mitigate that. 

Edit: I'm editing to clarify that in fact in does matter who is vulnerable to recruitment by the enemy, but that this is secondary to the command and control element of the enemy, who deserve a good long roasting in hell.


----------



## The Bread Guy

This, from the CSIS Info-machine ...


> The Director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Michel Coulombe, made the following statement regarding the recent national security threat:
> 
> The national security incident in Strathroy, Ontario (Wednesday) is a reminder that Canada is not immune to the threat of terrorism, and that the path to radicalization often ends tragically.
> 
> CSIS is committed to the safety and security of Canadians and monitors all potential threats. Through our investigations, strong community relationships and with assistance from the general public, CSIS collects and assesses information about potential terrorist threats. Collaborating closely with our partners in the security and intelligence community ensures the safety of our country and its citizens, and yesterday's efforts – including the Service's assistance in the urgent identification of the suspect – were a testament to those effective partnerships.
> 
> Canadians should always remain alert to the danger of terrorism and report any suspicious activity to the National Security Tip Line (1-800-420-5805) or by contacting their local police.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Anywhere that humans are in charge, that is a realistic fear.



In Canada...really?  

I think that's a little...dramatic.  I'm more fearful of our government being *mamby-pamby*.  That is more realistic than the tyranny stuff in Canada.  We deploy a JTF to the MESF and conduct strikes on ISIS and then, when the government changes declare _öh we aren't at war with you_!     <-----  that is mamby-pamby.


----------



## jmt18325

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> In Canada...really?



Canada isn't special in that regard.  It's inhabited by humans.


----------



## cupper

jmt18325 said:
			
		

> Canada isn't special in that regard.  It's inhabited by humans.



I have yet to see evidence that statement is accurate. [


----------



## Cloud Cover

Interesting spin from the London free Press: all innuendo, conjecture and "unnamed sources". It does appear police are looking to locate and speak with a third party,apparently named "Jamal". Good luck with that. 

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings Provisions of the _Copyright Act_R.S.C 1985 (as amended)
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/08/12/before-he-was-killed-aaron-driver-had-asked-for-a-cab-to-take-him-to-citiplaza-in-london-home-to-a-canadian-forces-recruiting-centre

Source: London Free Press
Author: Jennifer O'Brien
Publication Date: Saturday, August 13 Edition
Title: Was Military the Suspects Intended Target?

The presence of a Canadian Forces recruitment centre at a downtown London mall has raised suspicion a suspected terrorist killed in Strathroy Wednesday was targeting the military.

The cab company that sent a taxi to pick up Aaron Driver just before the deadly takedown by police has said Driver wanted to go to the CitiPlaza mall in London, though it remains unclear if that was his intended final destination.

The RCMP and the military weren’t answering questions about those concerns Friday, but a source with a connection to the investigation said the possibility was raised among law enforcement officials.

That suspected terrorist, Aaron Driver, had spent months seeking weapons and explosives in the London region, sources told The Free Press.

In the absence of new information from police Friday, small details about Driver, his teenage years in London and his potential crime surfaced.

It was well known criminals in the area were involved in helping him look for weapons recently, a source said.

Driver put the word out so widely, it’s a surprise local police hadn’t learned of his activity, the source said.

At a news conference Thursday, the RCMP said Driver was not under their surveillance and they had no indication he was planning an attack.

RCMP said they were alerted by the FBI at 8:30 a.m. Wednesday that an individual was planning to bomb an urban centre during the morning or afternoon rush hour sometime in the next 24 hours.

A video showed a masked man pledging that Canadians would pay “today” for fighting against the Islamic State.

The RCMP had identified the man as Driver by about 11 a.m and were waiting for him when he came out of his house in Strathroy about 4:30 p.m. carrying a backpack and got into a cab.

Officers blocked the vehicle and told Driver to get out, but he apparently detonated a bomb inside the cab. He left the cab and was killed.

Driver called for a cab about 4 p.m. Wednesday and said he wanted to go to the London mall, Leo’s Taxi in Strathroy says.

There’s speculation the downtown plaza was a stop along the way, and Driver was heading, perhaps by walking to the nearby train station, to a larger centre.

The Toronto Transit Commission and Metrolinx, which operates the GO Transit system, said they had been alerted about a potential threat.

A manager of CitiPlaza would not confirm if it had been alerted about a threat.

Privately, merchants in the mall have expressed concern about a military recruitment centre — a logical terrorism target — so close to them. Security at the centre has been beefed up recently, one told The Free Press.

One shopkeeper said fears the military was a target was the talk of mall tenants, but that there was no police activity outside the centre Wednesday.

As well, the timing of an attack might not have worked, because the centre closes at 4:30 p.m. each day.

However, Driver was known to sometimes stay at a home on Blanchard Crescent in London, which is being investigated as part of the terrorism probe. The house is owned by a Hiam Zabian, according to city tax records, although police at the scene Thursday were seeking a man named Jamal.

Driver has a long and troubled personal connection to the military. His father was an Air force corporal and a fourth-generation military man. But Driver was estranged from his father for much of his life, after his mother died of cancer when he was seven.

He called Wayne Driver his stepfather, and said he was the result of a sperm donor.

In his martyrdom video, which the RCMP played at their news conference, Driver alluded to Canadian military action in Syria and Iraq and the withdrawal of the country’s fighter jets from the battles.

“Then, perhaps, you found yourself safe from retaliation because you ran away from the battlefield. No, no by Allah, you still have much to pay for,” he said.

In their news conference, the Mounties said they did not know where Driver was headed or what specific target he had in mind, only that they believe he was “looking for a location that was heavily populated.”

— With files by Free Press reporter Jennifer O’Brien

_- mod edit to add link -_


----------



## mariomike

There’s speculation the downtown plaza was a stop along the way, and Driver was heading, perhaps by walking to the nearby train station, to a larger centre.

Metrolinx said the regional transit organization was alerted early Wednesday morning about a security threat on a “large urban transportation centre in Canada.” 

If Union Station is / was the intended target, I wonder if they will consider re-commissioning the now closed emergency hospital across the street in the Royal York Hotel? 
I remember it was fully equipped. Complete with two wards, a dispensary, and an operating room.
Patients could be wheeled underground from Union Station via PATH.

The massive lobby could also be used as a field hospital, as it was during the Noronic disaster.


----------



## a_majoor

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> In Canada...really?
> 
> I think that's a little...dramatic.  I'm more fearful of our government being *mamby-pamby*.  That is more realistic than the tyranny stuff in Canada.  We deploy a JTF to the MESF and conduct strikes on ISIS and then, when the government changes declare _öh we aren't at war with you_!     <-----  that is mamby-pamby.



How soon we forget. The Human Rights Commission and Tribunals operate without due process, and being victimized by these bodies can lead to ruinous personal expense, onerous sentences which are enforced by the _real_ courts and loss of time, employment and reputation. Mark Steyn was taken by three separate tribunals in three different provinces in a clear case of "court shopping"; his crime? _Directly quoting_ a radical Iman in a Maclean's article. And in Ontario there is a proposed law that would see you fined if you did not address a person by whatever made up gender they say they are, rather than the biologically correct "he" or "she".

So chipping away at the 800 year old foundation of free speech in our society is being done with a jackhammer by the very government and bureaucracy that is supposed to be protecting our rights. And they don't take action against things like the proposal to place the "Thought Police" in every Queen's U dorm to "monitor" people's speech and presumably drag people in for re education if this third party overheard something they arbitrarily decided they didn't like. Although the idea was dropped due to the public outcry against it, no apology was issued by Queens for even considering this, and no disciplinary or job action was taken against the people who proposed it (I am not encouraging my children to go to Queens for this very reason).

Now since speech can be used to prosecute people without due process in Canada already, it is a short step to government prosecutors claiming that the speech they are prosecuting you for is "supporting terrorism".

So yes, Tyranny can and does happen here in Canada, and there is no need to encourage its growth and spread.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Thucydides said:
			
		

> And in Ontario there is a proposed law that would see you fined if you did not address a person by whatever made up gender they say they are, rather than the biologically correct "he" or "she".




Canada is becoming so screwed up lol


----------



## Eye In The Sky

This is news to me, or when it happened I chose to ignore it?  WTF.  

How much of this stuff would stand a challenge against the Charter?  I don't consider Queens U, or any U, the 'real world' and if they want to create their safe spaces etc...those people are in for a surprise when they leave that and join the real world.

If the Human Rights Commission, etc aren't operating with due regard to due process and our Charters rights...then the people being affected by that need to take them to task in a real court.  Of note, in your own example one of the BS practices halted 'when there was public outcry'.  That is what it takes, then that is what it takes.  Our soft, mamby-pamby society will only be allowed to become as soft as we let it.  I don't have much hope, myself.  

 :2c:

What does this have to do with the thread though...I guess I just have a 'harsher' version of what tyranny is when I think of the word.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Canada is becoming so screwed up lol



Becoming?  Surely you don't think it's just starting...its just getting worse...WAY worse.  My retirement plan is to buy 50 acres somewhere.  That should give me enough space from all the mamby-pamby's and fucktards to keep them safe.   >


----------



## jollyjacktar

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Becoming?  Surely you don't think it's just starting...its just getting worse...WAY worse.  My retirement plan is to buy 50 acres somewhere.  That should give me enough space from all the mamby-pamby's and fucktards to keep them safe.   >



Ah, they'll probably come after you for being anti-social (after you neglect to address them by their preferred flavour of the day orientation) with all that space between you and the you must be allowed to say/think/do whatever the fuck you want club.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I'll just put up signs around my property;  "Human My-Little-Ponies Not Welcome Or Tolerated.  Enter at your own risk."


----------



## The Bread Guy

Okay, now that we've pegged this on the Human Rights Commission, how about a few updates?

_"Aaron Driver was turning his life around and 'seemed happy,' older brother says"_
_"... Leonard Tailleur, a senior attorney for Legal Aid Manitoba, represented Driver (during peace bond proceedings) and says he's shocked by Wednesday's events, calling Driver's behaviour "a 180-degree turn." ..."_
Point:  _"It’s folly to assume Canada is immune to terrorism"_
Counterpoint:  _"Don’t panic, terrorist plotters aren’t getting far"_


----------



## GAP

> Driver's behaviour "a 180-degree turn." ..."



Maybe he was very happy planning on what he got caught at....... :2c:


----------



## The Bread Guy

GAP said:
			
		

> Maybe he was very happy planning on what he got caught at....... :2c:


Sounds like he had a pretty good alternate message track for _everyone_ ...


----------



## Jarnhamar

GAP said:
			
		

> Maybe he was very happy planning on what he got caught at....... :2c:



Exactly


----------



## The Bread Guy

More from the Public Safety Canada Info-machine ...


> Reflecting on last week’s failed terrorist attack, the first thing to note is that Canada's police and security agencies, working closely with international allies (especially the FBI), foiled the would-be terrorist's plot in a remarkably short span of time.
> 
> The FBI received "actionable information" in a video pertaining to Canada.  Consistent with the robust security alliance that we have with the US, the Americans passed that material to the RCMP.  Expert Canadian analysts were able to determine the likely identity and location of the suspect.  Federal, provincial and local police forces were deployed immediately.  The suspect was engaged and killed in a brief altercation.  Public safety was secured.
> 
> The loss of any life is tragic, but the effective work of our security and police authorities, in partnership with the FBI, prevented a much more terrible outcome.  On days like August 10th, Canadians unite in admiration for the skill and service of our public safety officers and first responders.
> 
> It's important for Canadians to know that our agencies and their global partners are monitoring potential risks and threats all the time – 24-7, 365 days a year.  When credible information is obtained about a possible terrorist situation, robust measures are in place to respond. It is important to say that despite this incident, based on all relevant information at the present time, the current terrorism threat level for Canada remains unchanged at "medium" where it has stood since October of 2014.
> 
> Events like last week's and the tragic terrorist murders in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and Ottawa in 2014 have led to a genuine appetite among Canadians for a serious examination of Canada's current national security framework - what is it, where should it be improved, how can it become more effective in keeping us safe while safeguarding the essential values that make Canada, Canada?
> 
> The government is committed to meaningful national security consultations with parliamentarians, subject-matter experts and Canadians generally.  Some of that work has already begun.  It will intensify through this autumn with the publication of an updated report on the global risks and threats that affect Canada and a discussion paper that describes our current framework and asks questions about how Canadians want to reshape it.
> 
> As a minimum, the government has pledged to protect democratic rights to protest and advocate, to create a more responsive way to deal with no-fly list appeals and false positives, to apply more precise definitions to such things as "propaganda", to ensure compliance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and to have anti-terrorism legislation reviewed again in three years.
> 
> We have also introduced new legislation to create a statutory committee of parliamentarians with extraordinary access to classified information and a mandate to scrutinize the security and intelligence operations of all departments and agencies of the Government of Canada.  The committee's objectives will be two-fold - to make sure that all those departments and agencies are effective in keeping Canadians safe, and to make sure our values, our rights and freedoms, and the open, inclusive, democratic character of our country are fully respected.  Canadians expect nothing less.
> 
> No one would think for one second that what marred Strathroy last Wednesday was at all representative of that peaceful, quintessentially Canadian community, as we heard so eloquently from Mayor Vanderheyden.  But that event does make the point that in this uncertain world, no place is immune to the threat of terrorism.  And the largest concern is about lone wolves who get sucked into perverse and extreme ideologies that promote violence.
> 
> Particularly relevant to what happened in Strathroy, we have also budgeted for a new national office and centre of excellence for community outreach and counter-radicalization.  We need to get really good at this - to preserve our diversity and pluralism as unique national strengths.
> 
> Some work in this field is already being done in Canada - at various universities and in cities like Montreal and Calgary, for example - but there's little national coherence.  Our goal is to begin fixing that this year.
> 
> We need to access the best global research.  We need to develop more of our own.  We need to generate and coordinate talent and expertise.  We need to mobilize and support community-based outreach agencies. We need to know how to identify those who could be vulnerable to insidious influences that draw certain people - especially young people - toward extremism leading to violence.  We need to understand what positive messages can counteract that poison.  We need to know how to intervene with the right tools at the right time in the right way - all to head-off tragedies before they happen, as much as humanly possible.
> 
> The consultations just ahead on national security will help inform all these items for government action.  They will also help tell us what other steps and measures Canadians want their government to take - to keep them safe and to safeguard the way they want to live their lives.
> 
> You are welcome to participate.  I hope you will ...


----------



## jollyjacktar

I don't find the loss of Drivers life tragic.  He was a danger to society and his fellow citizens.  He's right where I want him to be.


----------



## PuckChaser

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I don't find the loss of Drivers life tragic.  He was a danger to society and his fellow citizens.  He's right where I want him to be.


I'd have preferred him to rot slowly in prison, or having become a vegetable from his clearly poor bomb making abilities, kept alive in a prison hospital as a paraplegic. He wanted martyrdom, too bad we couldn't deny him that.


----------



## jollyjacktar

No, no second chances to cause havoc and mayhem from the grave.  Too many Dudly Do-rights out there to make me feel comfortable that these kind of turds wouldn't float up and out from prison one day.  If we were like the Yanks where life truly means life, then OK.  Bourque is the only terrorist that has a proper sentence as far as I'm concerned, he's never coming out.


----------



## PuckChaser

That's true, we'd have bottom feeders like the guy defending Omar Khadr constantly trying to get him out of jail.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Exactly, that's why I like the idea of Driver, Bebo et al where they are right now.  No worry about someone releasing them one day, it's a one way trip and I sleep better with that in mind.


----------



## cupper

I think it's better this way, don't have to pay for his housing and upkeep.


----------



## ModlrMike

It's easier to deal with a dead martyr than a live hero.


----------



## AbdullahD

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> It's easier to deal with a dead martyr than a live hero.



I am not so sure... now my usualy caveats apply, that I am woefully ignorant but anywho.

This diver fool was a good one, he didnt kill anyone but himself. So he essentially failed in a sense to wreak mass havoc because the situation was isolated. So in this instance im happy with the outcome.

But dead martyrs tend to mean they were successful in hurting innocent people and because of that they can be used as a rallying point. Ie "look at how meaningfull so and so's death was he killed/maimed/injured 'x' amount of oppressive infidels in his glorious martyrdom, you can do that too" etc etc you know the regular brainwashing.

Id prefer Canada brings back the capital punishment and puts them down like the dogs they are and then bury them in an unmarked grave. But alas the only way they get punishment in this life after the fact is if we can extradite them to more... strict countries.

Abdullah


----------



## ModlrMike

Perhaps, but in today's Canada, the hero would be held up as some sort of "poor me cause celebre". We've seen that before...


----------



## jollyjacktar

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Perhaps, but in today's Canada, the hero would be held up as some sort of "poor me cause celebre". We've seen that before...



(cough) Khadr (cough)


----------



## Lightguns

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> (cough) Khadr (cough)



Exactly, if this guy had surrendered, he would have a high priced lawyer free, a made up child soldier story, free university for life, photo ops with Dallaire, May, and Mousef! Maybe a royal commission into his childhood and how Canada failed the radicals.  But I am jaded......


----------



## mariomike

Aug 18, 2016 

Taxi driver says police risked his life in terrorist sympathizer takedown
http://www.680news.com/2016/08/18/taxi-driver-says-police-risked-his-life-in-terrorist-sympathizer-takedown-2/
A taxi driver who was in the car when a terrorist sympathizer was gunned down by officers in southwestern Ontario has slammed police, saying they needlessly put his life in jeopardy.


----------



## PuckChaser

I'm sure the tactics are going to be picked apart, I was curious as well as to why they let him get in the cab.


----------



## Jarnhamar

mariomike said:
			
		

> Aug 18, 2016
> 
> Taxi driver says police risked his life in terrorist sympathizer takedown
> http://www.680news.com/2016/08/18/taxi-driver-says-police-risked-his-life-in-terrorist-sympathizer-takedown-2/
> A taxi driver who was in the car when a terrorist sympathizer was gunned down by officers in southwestern Ontario has slammed police, saying they needlessly put his life in jeopardy.



I was wondering when someone would mention this. Gotta admit the taxi driver has a pretty solid point.


----------



## dapaterson

Not knowing how, precisely,  everything went down nor what information was available to the individuals on the scene, I am reluctant to jump on anybody's case at this time.


----------



## Jarnhamar

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Not knowing how, precisely,  everything went down nor what information was available to the individuals on the scene, I am reluctant to jump on anybody's case at this time.



That's a fair point. 



> police didn’t warn him as he waited in the driveway for five minutes for Aaron Driver before the 24-year-old got into the back of his cab.
> 
> He says police swarmed them only after he began reversing the car out of the driveway, which is when he says Driver set off an explosive device.



The driver is saying he was waiting for 5 minutes for Driver to come out.  The police could have arrived on scene just as the taxi was leaving and no chance to intercept him.


----------



## GR66

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> The driver is saying he was waiting for 5 minutes for Driver to come out.  The police could have arrived on scene just as the taxi was leaving and no chance to intercept him.



Even if they were there first how could they be certain that the cab wasn't an accomplice instead of a bystander?  Do you risk tipping the suspect off by approaching an unknown vehicle waiting for him?


----------



## PuckChaser

GR66 said:
			
		

> Even if they were there first how could they be certain that the cab wasn't an accomplice instead of a bystander?  Do you risk tipping the suspect off by approaching an unknown vehicle waiting for him?


That's a great point. He became an unknown actor at the point he stopped in the driveway, best case scenario, he ends up face down eating pavement and complaining how he was rough handled.

I'm sure the OPP investigation will shed some light, they'll have all the radio comms and decisions by incident commanders explained to them in far more detail than we'll ever see.


----------



## PuckChaser

I betcha he makes more money and gets more support than some CAF members who have been in much larger explosions in which they picked up their friend's body parts afterwards.


----------



## Teager

I can see why he's a bit upset with the police. Although the police eventually took him to the hospital to get him checked out someone dropped the ball a bit to make sure he was ok medically right away if what he says is true. This article also goes more into depth of what happened from the cab drivers perspective.



> A victim of a terrorism attack, Duffield said he had to find his own way from the scene.
> 
> He got a ride from his boss’s son to the cab office to get his own car and drove home, Duffield said.
> 
> Later that evening, two police officers came to his door and told him the bomb squad advised he go to the hospital to check for internal injuries because of the explosion.
> 
> Police took him to hospital, stayed with him and brought him back home with no apparent internal injuries.



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-police-put-my-life-in-jeopardy-cabbie-injured-in-aaron-driver-standoff-says


----------



## Jarnhamar

GR66 said:
			
		

> Even if they were there first how could they be certain that the cab wasn't an accomplice instead of a bystander?  *Do you risk tipping the suspect off by approaching an unknown vehicle waiting for him?*



I don't know, is it SOP to risk putting an innocent bystanders life at risk and giving the suspect a possible hostage?  What if Driver had the detonator and the car is the bomb?

Lots of conjecture of course. I'm just saying given what we do know in lieu of an explanation it seems like the cab driver has a pretty solid reason to be pissed off.


----------



## The Bread Guy

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> ... best case scenario, he ends up face down eating pavement and complaining how he was rough handled.


I'm actually surprised that it sounds like he didn't get exactly that.

I'm the first to admit that we don't hear the whole story via the media, but *if* it's true the cab driver was left there in the driveway by police after the main threat was neutralized, he _may_ have a case.  After all, am I wrong in thinking that in hostage rescue situations (which I realize this isn't), don't all hostages get _some_ level of positive control until proven non-hostile?

We'll have to see/hear/read what we see/hear/read - and even then ...


----------



## PuckChaser

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I'm actually surprised that it sounds like he didn't get exactly that.
> 
> I'm the first to admit that we don't hear the whole story via the media, but *if* it's true the cab driver was left there in the driveway by police after the main threat was neutralized, he _may_ have a case.  After all, am I wrong in thinking that in hostage rescue situations (which I realize this isn't), don't all hostages get _some_ level of positive control until proven non-hostile?
> 
> We'll have to see/hear/read what we see/hear/read - and even then ...



100% agree. There's some LEO pers on the board that might be able to offer some insight, but this was an ETF operation so those TTPs might not be readily available.


----------



## Old Sweat

We don't have all the story and this was an impromptu operation without time to set up a cordon and develop a plan to secure and evacuate any civilians in the area.


----------



## mariomike

The OPP has been tasked with investigating the circumstances that led to Driver’s death on Aug. 10, but it is not clear whether they will probe why police decided to go after the terrorism suspect only once he was in the back of Duffield’s cab.
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/08/18/strathroy-cabbie-terry-duffield-caught-in-the-middle-of-the-rcmps-terror-investigation-of-aaron-driver-says-police-put-him-in-danger

"Duffield has gone public with his complaints about police, but is still weighing his legal options, said his lawyer, Kevin Egan."


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Not sure how much 'knowledge' a cab driver has on anti-terrorist SOPs/TTPs with law enforcement to be criticizing the actions they took.  However, its a little disconcerting some here are willing to take his (and his lawyers) word on 'things happened that shouldn't have'; what is their motivation?  Certainly not monetary compensation.   ^-^

I'd say if anyone risked his life, it was Driver.  Maybe he should sue him.


----------



## Lightguns

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I betcha he makes more money and gets more support than some CAF members who have been in much larger explosions in which they picked up their friend's body parts afterwards.



Depends on the quality of the Workplace safety organization and it's level of experience with OSI in Ontario.  Here in NB, unlikely, as this just started a program for first responders in the last few months.


----------



## jollyjacktar

I listened to his interview last night while driving back from Halifax.  As with anything,  hindsight is 20/20.  Things could always be done this way or that and could have been done better or worse.  That's life and as the saying goes, a plan survives to the first contact with the enemy.

My take away smile from his story was what he heard a team member say after the first volley, "he's still twitching", before they put another set into him.  Good ending for me.


----------



## mariomike

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> My take away smile from his story was what he heard a team member say after the first volley, "he's still twitching", before they put another set into him.  Good ending for me.


----------



## jollyjacktar

;D


----------



## Good2Golf

> After all, am I wrong in thinking that in hostage rescue situations (which I realize this isn't), don't all hostages get some level of positive control until proven non-hostile?



I've seen that in movies and heard it's a done thing. 

That said, we don't know specifically what ETF did in terms of clearing the scene.  As with others' thoughts and in lieu of anything else known, the taxi guy should probably have been attended to on scene afterwards.. Assuming the were paramedics in scene afterwards?

Regards
G2G


----------



## mariomike

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> That said, we don't know specifically what ETF did in terms of clearing the scene.  As with others' thoughts and in lieu of anything else known, the taxi guy should probably have been attended to on scene afterwards.. Assuming the were paramedics in scene afterwards?



It's possible,
https://www.opp.ca/index.php?lng=en&id=115&entryid=5707ea198f94acd56d9b9a2f
"Advanced Care Paramedics provide emergency medical care during OPP tactical incidents."


----------



## Teager

mariomike said:
			
		

> I would guess it likely,
> https://www.opp.ca/index.php?lng=en&id=115&entryid=5707ea198f94acd56d9b9a2f
> "Advanced Care Paramedics provide emergency medical care during OPP tactical incidents.
> Emergency Response Teams (ERT), the Urban Search and Rescue, Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear and Explosives Response Team (UCRT) and Tactics and Rescue Unit (TRU) teams all have access to these paramedics.
> Training is based on the techniques of TRU and UCRT, enabling them to function within the OPP's programs as tactical medics. During training, teams are exposed to the kind of high-risk scenarios they might encounter in the field, and are able to learn what their roles are within them.  They become certified under this program as Advanced Care Paramedics."



I'm wondering if he was only treated for his cuts and sent on his way or possibly refused to go to hospital? It does say police later came to his house because bomb squad wanted him checked for internal injuries.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Sandy Hook families are suing Remington. Maybe the cab driver should try suing Islam.


----------



## mariomike

Teager said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if he was only treated for his cuts and sent on his way or possibly refused to go to hospital? It does say police later came to his house because bomb squad wanted him checked for internal injuries.



For sure Paramedics would have been on scene for the deceased.

"An officer later brought him to paramedics, who treated him for cuts and scrapes on one of his arms."

http://www.cp24.com/news/taxi-driver-who-picked-up-aaron-driver-credits-cigarettes-for-saving-his-life-1.3033944

If he refused to go, I hope the crew got a signature.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I've seen that in movies and heard it's a done thing.


I've seen the same flicks (at least some I'm guessing) and even if it makes sense, one likes to check, as much as OPSEC allows 



			
				Good2Golf said:
			
		

> That said, we don't know specifically what ETF did in terms of clearing the scene.  As with others' thoughts and in lieu of anything else known, the taxi guy should probably have been attended to on scene afterwards.. Assuming the were paramedics in scene afterwards?


I concur, with the caveat of knowing what we read is _barely_ the tip of the info iceberg.


----------



## mariomike

gofundme.com

"Help Strathroy Cabbie Terror Victim"
https://www.gofundme.com/terryduffield

Joe Warmington
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/18/police-deserve-more-thanks-than-complaints-in-terror-takedown
"It could be a “thank you” might be warranted to police, and some medals, too."

TTC workers not told about possible terror threat: Union 
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/12/ttc-workers-not-told-about-possible-terror-threat-union


----------



## Jarnhamar

> http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/18/police-deserve-more-thanks-than-complaints-in-terror-takedown
> On Newstalk 1010, Duffield told John Moore he *is “more mad at the police than (the bomber)*.



Looks like the cabbie went full retard.



Seems like someone can't step in dogshit these days without a gofundme page springing up.




> *“This was a fluid situation with resources moving to get in place quickly,*” said a source, including the potentially unexpected taxi approaching the home they were trying to surveil.
> 
> *There were only a few steps from the residence to the taxi and very little time for tactical unit officers to swoop in for an arrest.*
> 
> “They did the very best they could under incredible circumstances,” said a source, who added the OPP and Strathroy-Caradoc Police Service were also extremely supportive in backing up the RCMP.



Seems like a great explanation to me. Cabbie is lucky he didn't get shot for being a dummy and reaching over for something when police were pointing guns at him.


----------



## mariomike

"It was that seat and those cigarettes that saved my ass, no cop."

Irony abounds - saved by a pack of smokes.   He almost became collateral damage.


----------



## PuckChaser

If the device didn't kill the guy wearing it/right beside it, I don't think the cabbie had much to worry about. Looks like a pretty low explosive yield, didn't even break out any windows with frag/blast wave.

The cabbie was saved by Aaron Driver being an idiot, and piss poor terrorist, not his pack of smokes.


----------



## mariomike

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Looks like a pretty low explosive yield, didn't even break out any windows with frag/blast wave.



I wonder if the cab will go back in service? By the sounds of it, Terry won't be hacking any time soon, if ever.


----------



## Old Sweat

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Looks like a pretty low explosive yield, didn't even break out any windows with frag/blast wave.



I wonder if AD had not armed it, or at least inserted the detonator in the explosives. That might explain the lack of damage to the cab and the occupants.


----------



## ModlrMike

Perhaps just the initiator charge?


----------



## mariomike

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I betcha he makes more money and gets more support than some CAF members who have been in much larger explosions in which they picked up their friend's body parts afterwards.



$810 of $20k goal.
https://www.gofundme.com/terryduffield

Better than nothing, but still a long way to go!

A Telethon maybe?


----------



## Jarnhamar

mariomike said:
			
		

> $810 of $20k goal.
> https://www.gofundme.com/terryduffield
> 
> Better than nothing, but still a long way to go!
> 
> A Telethon maybe?



I noticed it mentions he has PTSD (including in the gofundme statements: how awful of you to have PTSD) did I read somewhere that he self- diagnosed himself because he can`t afford a doctor to diagnose him


----------



## PuckChaser

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I noticed it mentions he has PTSD (including in the gofundme statements: how awful of you to have PTSD) did I read somewhere that he self- diagnosed himself because he can`t afford a doctor to diagnose him


He can't afford a free doctor that his taxes pay for? Or he can't afford to pay a doctor to confirm his webMD diagnosis?


----------



## jollyjacktar

In his interview with CBC Radio,  he said he has been prescribed three medications following this event.  One is for anxiety,  he claims he cannot afford to fill the two major scripts.  He also said he tried to return to work two days after but found he couldn't go through with it.  He thinks he may never be able to work as a cabbie again. 

I have no doubt he'll have some issues to deal with after this.  Good luck to him at any rate.


----------



## PuckChaser

Here's a CTVNews "exclusive" interview with the RCMP with some amplifying details: 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.3036611

Some takeaways:

- Detonated bomb in taxi, got out, was taken down outside the cab.
- Recipe for HME found inside the home, likely not commercial explosives
- Figured out it was him, because he wore the same balaclava in the video as he did when given the peace bond in Winnipeg
- House was surveilled for a few hours before taxi showed up
- Cab pulled up at 1618, terrorist exited residence approx 1 minute afterwards

Granted, cabbie likely went immediately into the black after the incident, and he recalls waiting 5 minutes when it was realistically 60 seconds.


----------



## George Wallace

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> In his interview with CBC Radio,  he said he has been prescribed three medications following this event.  One is for anxiety,  he claims he cannot afford to fill the two major scripts.  He also said he tried to return to work two days after but found he couldn't go through with it.  He thinks he may never be able to work as a cabbie again.
> 
> I have no doubt he'll have some issues to deal with after this.  Good luck to him at any rate.



Sounds like an "Ambulance Chaser" got a hold of him.


----------



## mariomike

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sounds like an "Ambulance Chaser" got a hold of him.



He is lawyered up.
www.pressreader.com/canada/the-chatham-daily-news/20160818/281586650004111

"Suicide by Cop"?

Aaron Driver's dad believes alleged terrorist wanted 'suicide by cop’ 
http://www.ourwindsor.ca/news-story/6817613-aaron-driver-s-dad-believes-alleged-terrorist-wanted-suicide-by-cop-/
Wayne Driver said his son, shot and killed by police in Strathroy last week, left a note before his death 

The father of a suspected terrorist shot dead by police in Strathroy, Ont. last week believes his son didn’t want to kill anybody other than himself when he set off a homemade explosive in the backseat of a cab as Mounties pulled their guns on him.


----------



## FJAG

More here:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/aaron-drivers-more-powerful-bombs-never-detonated-rcmp-says-revealing-new-details-of-tense-confrontation

Note the fact that most probably the bomb didn't go off, just the detonator(s) and the timeline which makes the taxi's arrival and Driver's exiting the house happen within a minute of each other.

 :cheers:


----------



## mariomike

Mar 09, 2018 

Announced today that Union Station was the target,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=aaron+driver+%22union+station%22&dcr=0&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A3%2F8%2F2018%2Ccd_max%3A3%2F9%2F2018&tbm=


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

I think anyone blowing up Union Station would be doing Toronto a favour. What a disastrous looking piece of architecture that is. TO could rebuild something that would at least look more inviting.  ;D


----------



## jollyjacktar

Once again, I am reminded and thankful that piece of shit was stopped before any innocent lives were taken.


----------



## mariomike

Remember Terry Duffield?

QUOTE

Cabbie sues RCMP, police forces for failing to protect him in Ontario terror bombing

“The defendants knew, or ought to have known, that in putting Terry in harm’s way and failing to intervene earlier, Terry’s safety, health and well-being would likely be harmed,” the claim states.

END QUOTE

Various sources to choose from,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22Terry+Duffield%22&dcr=0&biw=1280&bih=603&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A3%2F22%2F2018%2Ccd_max%3A3%2F23%2F2018&tbm=


----------



## mariomike

Jarnhamar said:


> Sandy Hook families are suing Remington.



Yes, this is necro-post.

But, that civil suit is in today's news, in case anyone is interested,









						Sandy Hook Families Reach $73 Million Settlement With Gun Maker Remington
					

Remington has reached an agreement to settle claims in a case alleging  its marketing practices were in part responsible for the Sandy Hook school shooting, in a rare victory for plaintiffs suing gun makers.




					www.wsj.com


----------

