# Difference between ATIS Tech, LCIS Tech and COMM RSCH



## Fruss (21 Oct 2004)

Hi, I was looking on the army web site, I put as my first choice ATIS Tech (226) but came across LCIS Tech (227) as well as COMM RSCH (291)..   Is anyone knows the major difference between those 3?? I think I would prefer the army units..   But I also want to work with computer and communcation equipment..   And I want to have the best opportunities to learn and travel as well..   I don't want to sit on a base, doing 9-5 shifts...   I would take a civilian job if I wanted to do that (no offence to those who do that)    

Anyone with relevant information about these trades?

By the way, I did make a search, there's not a lot about LCIS Tech and COMM RSCH

Thanks


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## greener (21 Oct 2004)

You're right, there isn't much info about those trades on here, I thought there'd be more since most ATIS/LCIS Techs would be geeks and visit more message boards  ;D

AFAIK, and I'm far from an expert, the diff between ATIS and LCIS would be qualifications and training on equipment specific to land units and air units. For example: ATIS Tech might be able to fix a nav aid for an airport (Air) and an LCIS Tech would .. be able to fix .. something else specific to the Army (Land). I'm sure there's a lot of cross training too. Dunno, I'm guessing.


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## teltech (21 Oct 2004)

(I'll try not to take the geeks label personally )
As an LCIS tech, I'll try to answer questions that aren't already available on the recruiting website. To start:

1. LCIS tech (Land Communications and Information Systems) tech - we repair / maintain any communications equipment that the army uses, including radios (tactical and commercial), telephone systems - my specialty! ;D (phones, switches, indoor wiring), radar (for bird gunners), satelitte equipment (dishes, receivers, transmitters), computers and network systems (switches, routers, wiring, PC's, laptops) and cyrptographic equipment. Working evironment can vary - as a new tech, you can be expected to be posted to a brigade, where the work will be done in a shop in garrison, 9-5, and in the back of a truck during exercises and operations. (0-dark hundred to 0-dark hundred). If you are posted to a static position (non-operational), the job is mostly 9-5 (or 0730-1600 here) with the odd job outside those hours.

2. (now stepping outside my area of expertise) ATIS tech - as greener mentioned, nav aids are some of the things they fix - there is some overlap with the telephone system, and radars are also a big item. An ATIS tech on the board may be able to give more details. I believe they are also 9-5, depending on flight operations. Anyone?... ???

3. Comm Rsch - not much info on them, they have an uncanny ability to keep thier mouth shut WRT thier job. Listening to intercepted messages (voice, data) I believe is the main task - again it's a guess. Office life? maybe, but I understand they spend a fair amount of time away from home. Other than that, I don't know first hand.


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## Bert (21 Oct 2004)

From what TelTech posted, I'd say the overlap between ATIS and LCIS techs is
quite large if not practically the same.  The difference is in the chain of command
and operating environment.  For example, consider the army LCIS unit maintaining
radios for units on their base.  The ATIS unit maintains radios for use on
an air base.  Similar work and equipment, its just the environment is different.

The main differences would be ATIS techs maintain airfield radar, ILS, and comms
associated with the aerodrome.  LCIS being army may be more focused on battlefield or
land based equipment on ops. Both LCIS and ATIS pull cable with the linemen.

I'd imagine that LCIS and ATIS units are generally divided into sections and each
section specializes in an aspect of the field.  On air bases like Cold Lake, Bagotville, 
Trenton, or Comox, ATIS units have an airfield section and its more specific for
ATIS.  On an army base like Petawawa, perhaps one LCIS section may be very
specific to mobile land communication.  The netmaintenance section of an
ATIS and LCIS unit may be virtually identical as an example.  Other postings
may not have any sepcifics and an ATIS or an LCIS are fully compatible.
The navy's NET techs may have more environment specific equipment and
tasks, but generally speaking we all have large overlaps in MOC education and
work experience.


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## Fruss (23 Oct 2004)

Thanks guys..  Any other insight?


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## hiv (24 Oct 2004)

The hard thing about Comm Rsch is you really have no idea what you do until you're in. That being said, if you're really into technology and computers then you'll probably like Comm Rsch. We also have a field electronic warfare component for those who like to get dirty.


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## Fruss (24 Oct 2004)

Tribal Jedi said:
			
		

> The hard thing about Comm Rsch is you really have no idea what you do until you're in.



That's the point, I would like to know where I am going..   :

Maybe you can answer some questions..   without going into OPSEC..

as a 291er, are you the one who fix the network, do you design networks, using high tech systems???

And what's the chance of going on tour?? (I'm not talking about Alert)   ;D

English is my 2nd language so I have an accent, will it affect something in my work?

As well, is it a very hard to get MOC or do the CF needs a lot of 291er?? (Like SigOp, etc..)


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## OLD F of S (24 Oct 2004)

ATIS fix equipment sleep in clean sheets, LCIS fix equipment sleep with no sheets,
COMM RSCH operate high tech equipment sometimes sheets and sometimes no sheets.
      The key words are fix and operate .


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## hiv (25 Oct 2004)

Frank in Vancouver said:
			
		

> as a 291er, are you the one who fix the network, do you design networks, using high tech systems???



We utilise the standard LCIS/ATIS techs in conjunction with 291ers who receive certain technician training. I'm not sure why they do it this way but it's another field open us to us.



			
				Frank in Vancouver said:
			
		

> And what's the chance of going on tour?? (I'm not talking about Alert)   ;D



Pretty damn good lately. We deploy to land and the sea on both very short and the standard posting lengths; and there always seems to be someone going somewhere.



			
				Frank in Vancouver said:
			
		

> English is my 2nd language so I have an accent, will it affect something in my work?



Please be aware that this is an English only trade but there are a lot of people who aren't native speakers in the trade. As long as you have a firm grasp on the language you'll get by fine.



			
				Frank in Vancouver said:
			
		

> As well, is it a very hard to get MOC or do the CF needs a lot of 291er?? (Like SigOp, etc..)



I really have no idea what the recruiting situation is like. I know when I got in 3 years ago it was the beginning of a big recruiting binge into the trade but I don't know if they've stopped it since then. It takes a long time to get people through the school as clearances and an extended course length seem to be the mitigating factors. I think a recruiter would be able to give better advice on this subject.


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## Fruss (25 Oct 2004)

Thanks a lot!!!  ;D

That's my new 1st choice!!  :warstory:


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## m_a_c (28 Oct 2004)

Just curious, upon completion of your QL3, are you immediately posted to Ottawa, or are there other postings available, i.e. Kingston?


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## Fruss (29 Oct 2004)

m_a_c said:
			
		

> Just curious, upon completion of your QL3, are you immediately posted to Ottawa, or are there other postings available, i.e. Kingston?



As I could see on the army web site, you're posted at Leitrim after your MOC course, everyone goes there (as per army web site and monography)



I spoke with a recruiter in Vancouver, he told me that 291er only decode and translate, they are operator, so they don't support network, don't do admin stuff...  Who's right??? I didn't put it in my application yet because of that..  Anyone with an insight?? a friend in this MOC?


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## hiv (29 Oct 2004)

Frank in Vancouver said:
			
		

> As I could see on the army web site, you're posted at Leitrim after your MOC course, everyone goes there (as per army web site and monography)
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke with a recruiter in Vancouver, he told me that 291er only decode and translate, they are operator, so they don't support network, don't do admin stuff...   Who's right??? I didn't put it in my application yet because of that..   Anyone with an insight?? a friend in this MOC?



Obviously he doesn't know what he is talking about. Admittedly we don't do as much administration work as regular LCIS and ATIS techs but we do indeed perform a variety of sysadmin roles (I hope you understand I can't get into details.)

And yes, you will be posted to Ottawa after your QL3. It's a foregone conclusion. However, after you've been in trade for a little while a variety of postings open up all over the world.


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## KaptKain (29 Oct 2004)

Hey Frank. I am a Reservist going to the Regs as an LCIS Tech next week. 
I am/was a trucker on a callout for 3 years doing Computer/tele/anything with a voltage for my job down here. My partner is an LCIS tech. We have maintained a base between the two of use (only 40 members posted to base so easy for service calls).
But overall any sig trade can do computer stuff. Each base is a different situation. You could be posted to a bigger base (Gagetown for example) and be put into a section with only one role for a while, like doing tele, or radio, or crypto. Then switch sections to another for a while. Basically, ya should be put through all of the trade specialties before ya get your MCpl to supervise. and teach what ya know onto others.


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## Fruss (29 Oct 2004)

Ok, thanks a lot guys for the response..   But now, I'm even more confused than I used to be!!   :blotto:

I understand that those 3 trades work with computer, do administration and management of network, work with electronics, repair and use communication devices...

Here's what I want to do in life, maybe you can help me as it seems the recruiting center is not that helpful..

I want to be network administrator, work with high-tech communication (satellites, HF, etc..), work with electronics (repair) and I want to go overseas a lot.

Also, overseas, I would like to be able to get out a little, not always stay on the base, like go on patrol, etc..

I know ATIS Tech is airforce, it just "seems" they use more computers than LCIS..


I'm very confused as I don't (and won't) know exactly what each trade do, it's OPSEC, I understand..   but I was looking for a little insight.. 

BTW, the video of COMM RSCH has been shot in about 1985..   It might be time to refresh it!   :

Thanks for the help..

Edit: If you can take a look at the recruiting web site and tell me if the description of 291 COMM RSCH is what you do? That would tell me right away if I'm on track or not!


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## Bert (30 Oct 2004)

I don't think on this forum Frank you can get the obsolute answers you need.  The MOC videos
at the CFRC and the info in this thread provide good generalizations. 

The CF is a vast organization.  Assuming you start at the basic level, you'll learn electronics, product specific
knowledge, receive OJT (on-the-job-training), enter section rotation and work in various MOC situation.
After OJT, you'll learn different bases, stations, taskings, deployments, postings all have their own unit 
characteristics.  MOC overlap is there for cross-training and ensuring on a deployment or situation of
crisis that taskings get done.  It is impossible to give you specific details because an ATIS postion at
CFB Cold Lake will be different than an ATIS position at DND Ottawa as an example.  Alot of the
technical MOCs work together.  At one location, ATIS techs may work more with Sig Ops, ATCs, and
Linemen, at another maybe in an office environment, at another more involved in technical
administration.  The roles of MCpls or Privates and Corporls may be very different.  As your career evolves, 
you may want a specific career path and posting locations.  You might love the MOC but hate the 
positing or vice-versa.

To simplify it, just figure out whether you like operating things or fixing things.  If you want travel,
adventure, and fixing or maintaining technial infra-struture, then ATIS and LCIS MOCs are for you.  If 
you enjoy travel, adventure, and working with information and operating related equipment, Sig Op or 
Comm Rsrch may be more suitable.  The Navy has an equivalent but I can't think of the acronym.  

You can also remuster to another MOC after a period of time if there is availability.


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## Fruss (30 Oct 2004)

Thanks Bert, I guess the best way is to try out, and if I hate it, I just have to wait 3 years, or try to change MOC..  That's a good point..

Frank


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## Bahamut (26 Nov 2004)

Well I will see what I can do to answer your issues and straighten things out a bit..

Just a little background on me to give you an idea of my background and how I know the differences between the 3 trades.

I joined as a TelTech did my trades then 4yrs in a Comm Sqn, after which I did 9yrs on an air base. During the Air base tour the military went through the Sigs trade restructure process. I went from being classified as Teltech to SIS Tech to LCIS tech without a posting. That being said I was designated as LCIS while on an airbase due to the fact I was wearing an Army uniform.

Now as for the differences between ATIS and LCIS this is basically the location of your home units and the locations to which you are deployed.

ATIS- Work on PCs/networks, telephones, Airfield radar and weather systems, along with airfield and base audio/video needs and cryptographic equipment. Locations of operations are basically anywhere the aircraft land you can be posted to. This trend has been increasing in the last 5-10yrs with increasing airfield security training and deployments.

LCIS- Work on PCs/networks, telephones, Combat field radar/tracking systems, along with camp audio/video needs and cryptographic equipment. Locations of operation are basically anywhere the infantry go you can end up. Though you are more then likely to be located in a base camp and the equipment will be brought to you or you will go out into the field and replace the non-working module and return it to the shop for repairs.

Comm Rsch- This has always been and will always be a very secretive trade just because of its very nature of being operators and not technicians. They monitor all comms they can receive. As a general rule They operate the equipment not repair it...

NOTE: In the world of the Comm Rsch people SOME of not all the techs (though I cannot verify this a couple of my supervisors had been involved in the SRS system), are pulled in from those tech in the ATIS/LCIS trades that volunteer to move over into these positions. As they are considered out of trade for the ATIS/LCIS trades.

Any other questions you may have feel free to leave me a msg and I will try and give you more details from my experiences..


Tel Tech nice nick lol You stated you were in the Phone shop... SO is your background actually TE Tech or was it Tel Tech?


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## hiv (27 Nov 2004)

The problem with Comm Rsch is that no one has any idea what we do except for the actual people in the trade. I wouldn't be very quick to get advice from people who aren't in this trade. Again, due to it's secretive nature not much can be said but if you like working with new and emerging technologies then this might be the place for you.


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## SigPigs (6 Apr 2005)

>I want to be network administrator, work with high-tech communication (satellites, HF, etc..), work with electronics (repair) and I want to >go overseas a lot.

Then become a tech and go to JSR and POOF you will be overseas in a heartbeat.  291 is not THAT secretive.. they just like to be. They do need high clearances because they listen to everything flying around in the air. We call 'em rubber neckers because they sit around all day and listen to stuff, and fall asleep. BORING...You don't repair any of the gear you use ..that's the techs job. Ok some 291'er is going to say "I repair stuff !".. hey I am not counting the coffee maker.  ;D  There's no OPSEC worry..hey we are Canadian!  Go ATIS if you want to sit in a 9-5 job and stay home. Go LCIS to get deployed and be army. Go comms rsch if you want to sit around..and..well ok sit around. 

Andrew 227


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## meni0n (6 Apr 2005)

http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/COMMELEC/minutes/doc/NCM_Adv_Min_E_%2023Oct04.doc

says 100 out of 350 comm research personnel deployed last year


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## SigPigs (6 Apr 2005)

>>says 100 out of 350 comm research personnel deployed last year  

Yeah and they called deployed going to lunch...ha just kidding. Yeah they were out there a lot..still sitting around. BOORING.

LCIS are employed in 7 major CF areas which continues to make trg a challenge....
We are still the best trade and the most technical..you bet I am biased!! 
ALl the best.
Andrew 227


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## 291er (9 Apr 2005)

Why fix things?  It's much more fun to break them.  291 or 000120 as it is now known, is a very interesting trade.  We do have our own system administrators who run our networks, and we do have people that work in other areas with networks as well.  There is so many things to do in this trade, always something new to learn.....


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