# Reserve MP vs Reg Force MP



## Miggz9 (5 Nov 2015)

I'm a current serving Res F Infmn who is occupation qualified.  I'm currently studying Criminology at Ryerson University and I'm really interested in becoming an MPO through the RESO program. I don't know whether to file a unit transfer while I'm in school and put in a few years or just wait until I'm done school and then file my CT/OT.  Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction to contact someone in the Toronto area at 2 MP Regt maybe?

Thank you guys!


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## brihard (5 Nov 2015)

What are your actual career goals? What is it about being an officer in the Military Police (as opposed to a Military Police Offcer) that appeals to you? I would suggest that things are looking pretty good for civilian police hiring in the next few years- if your goal is *policing* on a day to day basis, then being an officer in the MPs is probably not the best route to that...


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## Tibbson (5 Nov 2015)

I agree with Brihard.  If you want to do policing in a military environment then go MP (although, with a university degree in Crim you may not qualify since you need a CC diploma in Police Foundations to be an MP off the street).  If you want to be an administrator with a badge ( just so they can feel like they are part of the team) then go MPO.


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## runormal (5 Nov 2015)

I had a friend who tried to CT/OT from ACISS to  MPO from late 2012 to mid 2015. He gave up with his CT/OT around mid 2014 (while keeping his CT active) and applied to the RCMP and got in around mid 2015. 

The CT/OT intake at the time was pretty grim IIRC 1 or 2 spots per year. It may be better now but I doubt it.

If you are going to try and CT/OT into MPO put in your transfer ASAP and just put the preferred transfer date as the date you anticipate to graduate. I'm not sure what the CT (T) outlook for MPO is but make sure that it is actually the right trade for you, before you go through the hassle of switching units and trades.  

In general the CT/OT route is not a quick a route nor a guarantee, if you are even thinking of doing at CT/OT it doesn't hurt to put one in now, you can always close your file. Just make sure you are choosing the right trade.


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## mariomike (5 Nov 2015)

Miggz9 said:
			
		

> I'm really interested in becoming an MPO through the RESO program.



This may help,

All About RESO (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/1142.175



			
				Miggz9 said:
			
		

> Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction to contact someone in the Toronto area at 2 MP Regt maybe?



2 MP Toronto Contact Info?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/100533.0

As always, best to contact Recruiting.


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## DAA (5 Nov 2015)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> I agree with Brihard.  If you want to do policing in a military environment then go MP (although, with a university degree in Crim you may not qualify since you need a CC diploma in Police Foundations to be an MP off the street).  If you want to be an administrator with a badge ( just so they can feel like they are part of the team) then go MPO.



A Bachelors Degree in Criminology, meets the Entry Standards for both MP and MPO.

Most seem to think that you only need a recognized College program for the MP occupation, when in fact, the entry standards for MP, also include the same entry standards for MPO.


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## Dissident (5 Nov 2015)

I am always suspicious of people who want to become MPOs. I've seen too many who did not understand the job description. Most make the best of it, but the reality is quite mundane. 

If you want to be a cop, MPO ain't the best place for you. But hey, have at her.


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## ResMP (17 Nov 2015)

Fellas, some of the best cops I know are MPO's. They are on the move all the time. They have a lot of influence in the areas they supervise. Its one thing to do police work - Its another to orchestrate, manage, and supervise operations. Many of my MPO acquaintances have far more responsibility in comparison to their civilian counterparts in terms of years in.

For example what a 30 yr old Capt in NIS does is comparable to a 25 yr Inspector on the Civilian Side. MPO's have considerably more responsibility compared to their years of service.

Cool thing about the Military Police Trade is that it is truly a Police Agency that operates INTERNATIONALLY - In my books that is tres cool!!!!

Dont knock the MPO gig until you have had a frank conversation with a successful MPO .... and at least when you get posted you have influence to make change.

Res MPO not as much

My 2 cents.


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## Tibbson (18 Nov 2015)

ResMP said:
			
		

> Fellas, some of the best cops I know are MPO's. They are on the move all the time. They have a lot of influence in the areas they supervise. Its one thing to do police work - Its another to orchestrate, manage, and supervise operations. Many of my MPO acquaintances have far more responsibility in comparison to their civilian counterparts in terms of years in.
> 
> For example what a 30 yr old Capt in NIS does is comparable to a 25 yr Inspector on the Civilian Side. MPO's have considerably more responsibility compared to their years of service.
> 
> ...



I've had multiple tours in the NIS and the only MPOs I've worked with who had any sort of experience with police work were the ones who CFR'd.  In all cases, CFR or not, they deferred to the senior members of their Command Team, the MWO and WOs, for advice on policing.  And if you are going to draw comparisons to an RCMP Inspector then perhaps speak with any of the ones who had been attach posted to MP HQ.  They have the utmost respect for our MPOs but they also recognize who does the policing at the coal face.


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## ResMP (18 Nov 2015)

Re-Read my Post Detective   (Teasing you) 

No where did I say RCMP - May I remind you that there are many major police forces that have the inspector rank. RCMP is not the only game in town. Specifically in Ottawa and Ontario - Where most are housed in HQ - Last I checked the municipal and provincial police do the bulk of the policing in ottawa so they may be a bad example. Ottawa RCMP Inspectors (Read mostly administrative) are not the genre I was referring to.

Broaden your scope and look objectively what MPO's CAN do and have done - its impressive. 

Conferring/consulting with your group and senior members speaks to use of the MCM Model -Major Case Management - Which is the right thing to do. The fact that an MPO is not sitting in his ivory white tower and the fact that he is reaching out to his senior people for counsel speaks to their competence and character.

No where else that I can figure - can a 30 yrs Capt take a platoon into a theatre of operations, then run a guard house, then run a spin team, then do liaison work in the Ukraine, and then work with Major Police agencies on SERIOUS investigations. Thats impressive!!! And spanks all of the Inspectors - Non RCMP Inspectors  -that I know.

If you guys don't like officers just say so. But the Branch has some great officers 

I do agree - from a hands on point of view - MPO's do not have the - daily boots on the ground experience - I get that. I do appreciate what they do - WHEN they do it right or with the best interests of the Branch and their subordinates in mind.


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## ResMP (18 Nov 2015)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> ......... ( just so they can feel like they are part of the team) then go MPO.



Ouch! that one was below the belt! ... and no I am not an MPO


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## Poppa (18 Nov 2015)

OP,
I'd hold off until the latest FEC decision is made and we find out what the Branch wants us to do. And if you have specific 2 MP Regt questions feel free to drop me a message


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## Alberta Bound (20 Nov 2015)

"Fellas, some of the best cops I know are MPO's. They are on the move all the time. They have a lot of influence in the areas they supervise. Its one thing to do police work - Its another to orchestrate, manage, and supervise operations. Many of my MPO acquaintances have far more responsibility in comparison to their civilian counterparts in terms of years in. For example what a 30 yr old Capt in NIS does is comparable to a 25 yr Inspector on the Civilian Side. MPO's have considerably more responsibility compared to their years of service. Cool thing about the Military Police Trade is that it is truly a Police Agency that operates INTERNATIONALLY - In my books that is tres cool!!!! Don't knock the MPO gig until you have had a frank conversation with a successful MPO .... and at least when you get posted you have influence to make change."

Res MP

Your comments made me laugh. Do you have much experience in policing outside of reserve MP? Now I have nothing against MPOs. Nor MPs in general. But where did you get your information to compare MP Capts against any police service Insps? Do you know what responsibilities an Insp has? In the numerous sections of the RCMP, never mind all the other police agencies. Do you know what the average or RCMP Sgts responsibilities are?

i honestly don't know where to start. 

Hmm, how many murderers has your average NIS MP Capt personally arrested in his service? How many arson investigations has he supervised? How many barricaded persons calls has he supervised? How many suicides has he investigated? How much govt housing does he manage? How many contracts for goods and services does he arrange? How many municipal councils has he liaised with and reporting to? Just curious. 

I will give you #s for one RCMP Sgt as a comparison to your Capt: 7, over 50, over 25, over 100, most was 8 at one post, 12 at one post, 4. 
Nothing against MPOs. But MPs have similarities to civilian police. But the jobs aren't really comparable duty wise. By the way Majors are more in line with Insps. What would you compare an RCMP Cpl?

My 2 cents


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## Alberta Bound (21 Nov 2015)

"Conferring/consulting with your group and senior members speaks to use of the MCM Model -Major Case Management - Which is the right thing to do. The fact that an MPO is not sitting in his ivory white tower and the fact that he is reaching out to his senior people for counsel speaks to their competence and character.
No where else that I can figure - can a 30 yrs Capt take a platoon into a theatre of operations, then run a guard house, then run a spin team, then do liaison work in the Ukraine, and then work with Major Police agencies on SERIOUS investigations. Thats impressive!!! And spanks all of the Inspectors - Non RCMP Inspectors  -that I know.I do agree - from a hands on point of view - MPO's do not have the - daily boots on the ground experience - I get that."

Res MP

I love you explaining to SL what MCM is. Not that it would be highly insulting to think that you needed to explain it to a long serving senior Reg MP NCM who has probably ran more serious investigations than you have heard of and also babysat numerous new MPOs starting out. One question. Have you? You know, used MCM often? I also love the bit about MPOs doing SERIOUS investigations with Major Police agencies. Just cracked me up. I have met some good MPOs and a few that wouldn't be my first choice. 
Lots of opportunities as an MPO. Lots of opportunities to do good work. As there is for all MPs. 

Love your enthusiasm. Would love to know your actual police experience. 

Interested in a full time policing job? We're hiring.


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## Dissident (21 Nov 2015)

Alberta Bound said:
			
		

> Love your enthusiasm. Would love to know your actual police experience.
> 
> Interested in a full time policing job? We're hiring.



Sigh. The online anonimity is a double edge sword. 

ResMP has little to prove to anyone IMHO. His policing experience is quite sufficient.


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## ResMP (21 Nov 2015)

Alberta Bound,

If I did not have the training, experience, or education, I would not have made the comment. YOU are not the only game in town and frankly neither am I. Because I am an MP and a Civilian Police Officer I would offer that my opinion holds more weight than yours.

"Expectation of Respect between Users

All visitors, regardless of age, rank or experience are to be treated as equal unless their conduct dictates otherwise. That means the veteran servicemember and the green private are to assume that they have as much to benefit from the other as they have to offer the other until a reason to contrary is made known. Age, nor number of years excuses anyone from behaving in a manner that isn't civil and polite." 

I have to take a deep breath before I type this. Your assumption that just because I am a ResMP means I have no experience is troubling. Arrogance oozes from your post. I should be allowed an opinion on a Forum - My opinion comes from working beside MPO's so I have some perspective While they may not meet your standard ... they meet mine - I believe there are some damn fine MPO's that are police officers and soldiers.

First I do not feel compelled to whip out my resume on my profile so everyone can see how big my resume is ... your family must be proud  - we get it ... you got posted to a lot of really small towns with no calls for service. You are probably walking around in your Red Jacket and Big Brown Boots as I type this. Your profile might look impressive to the untrained eye. But your agency calls mine when yours gets in trouble ... and we are happy to help so please don't take that the wrong way ... 

How many MCM's did you do in those small towns?? Or did GIS come out and do them for you?

 I will post my resume at your request ... I trust that you will do the same ... 

Res MP since 1991 Op Harmony - Croatia, Kandahar and beyond 2009-2010 - Done all the Res Ex's and Courses up to the Rank of Sgt - I prefer to stay at this Rank so I can continue with the Close Protection stuff - I worked so hard to get qualified for ... and I love the work and the people I have the privilege to protect.

Since 1998 - Sworn Member of a Major Canadian Police Service 1800+ Mbrs, Patrol, Foot Patrol, Tactical Section Assaulter, Sniper, Close Protection, Armourer, Rappel Master, Police Carbine Operator since 2001- Under Cover Operations, Cover Manager, Involved with Major Homicide Investigations, Major Robbery Investigations - My Training includes the most advanced investigative trg my service has to offer, up to and including the 400 series. I teach firearms, patrol level tactics, and other interesting topics to all levels my of my service including the Deputy Chief Level. And I am promoted..So I know what a Sgt does ... I have supervised 2 officer involved shootings 1 Riot I have been involved in well over 100 critical incidents and supervised approximately 30 - thats an estimate because where I come from we don't count them as they happen frequently - and Yes I have been fully trained and worked under the Major Case Management Model ... any more questions? I trust these qualifications give me an opportunity to express my self on an internet forum. Funny enough I have had the opportunity/privilege  to act as a facilitator - not instructor - on a nation level RCMP VIP Security course of which I was invited by the coordinator. Great guys BTW - some members of your current ERT Team and VIP guys can vouch for me. My affiliation with them is dated.

Oh ya ... and my Civilian Police service gives me the latest firearms and trg, and free ammo and access to a range 24 hrs to train ... and they pay overtime too. Just so you know ..WE ... are hiring ... but ya gotta take a polygraph :nod: Your guys keep coming to us.

Alberta Bound I AM a Res MP ... it has taken me around the world and given me training at Homeland Security, Black Water, and else where ... My experience as a Res MP match those I have had on the civilian policing side. and I am pretty sure, but not positive I would never be so bold to say that I am certain that I am qualified to do your job. Now show me that you are qualified to do mine.

I speak with experience, education, and training. - What's more interesting - i am pretty positive that I would have crossed paths with you AB and maybe even SL. Policing is a small world on the civilian and military side I have been in this branch since 1991 - and I regularly sling beers with MWO's and MPO's.... and even Inspectors. :nod:

Now I trust that you will send us your Resume

PS I am not looking for work - I like my position in the Res Force and as a Sworn Police Officer -


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## ResMP (21 Nov 2015)

Alberta Bound said:
			
		

> Interested in a full time policing job? We're hiring.



Alberta Bound ... further to my last ... I cannot resist. I just read your profile ... It would be a cold and very dark day before I would submit an application to your service ... for the record your guys - are jumping ship to my outfit. We are currently training 5 ex RCMP out of our 6 Experienced Officers.

Now talking about Major Case Management and the RCMP - would you like to comment on the Jason Dix Fiasco, or Pickton investigation which was horribly flawed, or how about the Weibo Ludwig disaster. In our Muni MCM and investigative trg we use RCMP case studies as what not to do.   ... I am laughing so hard tears are rolling down my cheeks. The MPO's could teach you a thing or 2!!!! I am surprised that you even knew the MCM Acronym!

I think that the MPO's ensured that Military Police Branch had Carbines in their cars before our beloved RCMP!!!!!! It took Global 16 x 9 to get that rolling for you !!!!  :nod:


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## ResMP (21 Nov 2015)

Sorry for the Rant everybody - the elitism within the MP trade and surrounding the Branch is Cancerous. When a serving RCMP member feels that Res MP cannot have an opinion and 34 yr MWO chooses to say "so he (MPO) can have a badge to feel apart of team" speaks to the shallow fractured nature of 2 police agencies where morale is declining and both are experiencing serious attrition to the point they have serious man power issues. 

An RCMP SNCO chooses to flaunt his experience by citing the amount of "Big Calls" he has taken in an apparent attempt to belittle the leadership of another police agency - MPO.

This comes from SCNO's from the RCMP and Military Police - Shame on you both!!! You do not deserve the credentials that our government has entrusted you with. Your cancerous and divisive ( trying to separate MPO's from police officers ) comments on a public forum (especially one with a recruiting flair ) convey your poor professionalism - Grow up ...or get out ... the fire dept is hiring.

Have either of you thought about how many great MPO candidates you have discouraged from applying ... and the potential positive change they could bring the MP Branch?


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## Tibbson (21 Nov 2015)

Be careful climbing down off your high horse.  I never spoke on the capability of MPOs as much as I spoke of their job function.  Like it or not an MP NCO does the job while an MPO administers and manages.  Its quite clear on even the CAF Recruiting site:  http://www.forces.ca/en/job/militarypoliceofficer-74  Personally, I don't see where even that list is very accurate since MPOs do not manage investigations unless they have the MCM TC course at CPC which very few get unless they were CFR'd and had it before.  Very few of them, unless they are in a limited number of specialty positions, will also ever do a policing interview or a non administrative investigation.  As well, a 1,2,3,4,5,6...year MPO is still going to rely on his/her 10-20 year Sgt/WO/MWO for advice and direction.  If they don't then they are a fool.

Now, if someone wants to be an MPO....good on em.  No problems.  They just need to know they are not going to be doing much in the way of hands on policing so they can make an informed choice.


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## ResMP (21 Nov 2015)

SL, Agreed! 

BTW .. I was minding my own buisness feeding and brushing my horse and then it started to S#$@ on me- speaking to a topic that I felt I had something to offer .. persepective  -  and only climbed up on my horse when someone asked specifically, and in public  for my qualifications to which I replied. I would offer a more gentlemanly approach may have been to ask for that info via PM. Feel free to check to my profile and previous posts - I  remain quietly professional as much as possible - but there is a time and a place ... and I drew my line in the sand.

I suspect we know each other. If so you know I typically keep my civillian life to myself and keep it seperate from my Military Life - If we do not know each other I am sure some in your cohort will. I suspect that they will tell you I am hard to supervise - but not a braggart

Our ResMP's (both NCM and Officer) have a tremendous amount to offer. This was most certainly converyed in our most recent deployment to Afg.

You will note that my comments are specific. I am aware of one MPO who is currently employed in the NIS who is doing all of the things I mentioned earlier.


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## ResMP (9 Dec 2015)

.... very applicable to this post. I coffee'd with an MPO yesterday morning - who is in fact travelling to Chilliwack to Lecture to a group of RCMP/civillian police members - Major Case Management Leadership - It sounds as though the RCMP is very interested in his presentation. We had a great conversation - for those in the Branch you likely know him - Initials are BW


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