# Jetstream - The Series



## Bandit1 (9 Jan 2008)

Hey there guys and gals, thought I'd post this here.



> Discovery Channel to launch JETSTREAM on January 8
> 
> Discovery Channel ( Canada ) will premiere their latest series JETSTREAM on January 8, 2008 at 10pm ET/PT.
> 
> ...


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## Mike Baker (9 Jan 2008)

Already a thread on the same subject.


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## Bandit1 (9 Jan 2008)

Ya, but from what I remember the thread was locked?  Anyways, just wanted to give everyone the extra info as far as being able to watch the show a week after on the website...

Cheers, Bandit


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## guns_and_roses (9 Jan 2008)

I saw it yesterday. It is a great show. That thing that spins(can't remember the name) at 7 G's is crazy!


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## WannaBeFlyer (9 Jan 2008)

I caught last night's show and I also caught last week's Truth Duty Valour from 8 wing. These programs are the CF's best recruiting tools in my opinion. I know they just touch the surface of what might be involved or demanded through the occupation, but it was nice to get a first hand glimpse of two possible Pilot roles without sugar coating them. 

Anyway, this may sound weird, but I chuckled when the IP said "Why is there so much F'N rudder?... GET OFF!" He reminded me a lot of my civie instructor...


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## aesop081 (9 Jan 2008)

Future_Soldier said:
			
		

> That thing that spins(can't remember the name) at 7 G's is crazy!



Its called a centrifuge


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## SupersonicMax (9 Jan 2008)

Did you army types liked hands in the pockets, chewing gum and the comment about different types of warriors 

Max


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## guns_and_roses (9 Jan 2008)

Yep thats it CDN Aviator.


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## Sf2 (9 Jan 2008)

I thought it was pretty good, despite what I feel about fighter pukes ;D

Brought back memories of: "Dammit, was it practical or possible??  50:50 shot......"


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## aesop081 (9 Jan 2008)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Brought back memories of: "Dammit, was it practical or possible??  50:50 shot......"



Or the "SHALL" or "SHOULD"

 ;D


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## Springroll (9 Jan 2008)

I caught the episode last night and loved it. 

What a great recruiting method!


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## JBoyd (9 Jan 2008)

Caught the tail end last night, watched the repeat today. Thought it was great


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## Zoomie (9 Jan 2008)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Brought back memories of: "Dammit, was it practical or possible??  50:50 shot......"



It's actually "practicable" as in "Land as soon as practicable" vice "Land as soon as possible".


_practi·ca·bly adv.
Usage Note: It is easy to confuse practicable and practical because they look so much alike and overlap in meaning. Practicable means "feasible" as well as "usable," and it cannot be applied to persons._


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## SupersonicMax (10 Jan 2008)

Zoomie:  Just checked my checklist and it says Practical.  ???


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## volition (10 Jan 2008)

It was a great show!! ;D Next one is at the same time same place?


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## observor 69 (10 Jan 2008)

SF2 said:
			
		

> I thought it was pretty good, despite what I feel about fighter pukes ;D
> 
> Brought back memories of: "Dammit, was it practical or possible??  50:50 shot......"



I liked the part at the start where they had to clean furniture, a bonding experience. 
Brought back memories of CFANS, our instructor had our course help him move. Washer and dryer up from the basement, ...oh ya  
He did provide free beer.


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## Strike (10 Jan 2008)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> I liked the part at the start where they had to clean furniture, a bonding experience...



That's the part that made me shake my head.  Where are they?  Moose Jaw.  Come on.

As for the next episode, I think the next one is on Sunday.  Best to check your listings.  If it's anything like TDV, it will move around to different time slots every week. : ;D

Thought it was a great show though.  Nice to see some familiar faces and I thought it was really well produced, really trying to make a point of explaining some of the more difficult points.  As for the 900 page AOI, with all the annexes and extras, I'm sure that's at least the size of the Griffon one, and any other operational aircraft in the CF.   ;D  How big is the C-17 AOI?  Anyone?


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## observor 69 (10 Jan 2008)

http://www.discoverychannel.ca/jetstream/#/squadron/2/

January 15  at 2200 hrs ET/PT


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## Zoomie (10 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Zoomie:  Just checked my checklist and it says Practical.  ???



I guess it all depends on what SET organization has gotten their fingers into the emergency checklists - the Harvard 2 and the Slingsby checklist used to state "practicable"  which I thought was a made up word.


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## Crimmsy (10 Jan 2008)

One of the hornet red pages has "practicable" and "practical" on two adjacent lines


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## aesop081 (10 Jan 2008)

My CP-140 red pages say "land as soon as practicable"


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## aesop081 (10 Jan 2008)

For those who dont know the difference :

Land as soon as possible:



> Continued flight is not recomended. The aircraft should land at the first site at which a safe landing can be made.



Land as soon as practicable :



> Extended flight is not recomended. The landing site and flight duration are at the discretion of the aircraft captain.




Ref : C-12-140-000/MB-001 CP-140 Aircraft Operating Instructions


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## X-mo-1979 (10 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Did you army types liked hands in the pockets, chewing gum and the comment about different types of warriors
> 
> Max



Ha
Actually I did enjoy the differnt types of warrior comment.He darn well knew he wouldnt surive on the ground "sneaking in the woods" like I do... And I can darn well promise you if I was spun at 5 G I would be screaming(if I could breath)and vomiting all over the place. Plus missing a word...reminds me of gunnery(blaaah)...and lets just say I like A)B)C)or D)All the above type questions.

Differnt types of warriors for sure,much respect goes out to them.


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## inferno (12 Jan 2008)

Quick question, I know the airforce is less "uniform" then say the army. And aircrew is especially less uniform, different patches in the same squadrons, different style nametags, different style wings, 2pc vs 1pc flight suits, different generations and materials of jackets.

But now is there a reason they wear red, blue, and white tshirts at 410.. or is it just a "lets make it look more like TopGun for the cameras?


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## Strike (12 Jan 2008)

Since I haven't seen many fast-air types running around this site, I'll jump in here with what I believe might be the answer.

Right now dress regs state that we (AF types) should all wear blue t-shirts.  As for 410, the blue t-shirst were probably just coming in at that time.  So the red shirts would have been worn by those members of the Sqn proper.  The students are just that and so would have not had the "right" to wear a red t, hence the white shirt.


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## SupersonicMax (12 Jan 2008)

inferno said:
			
		

> Quick question, I know the airforce is less "uniform" then say the army. And aircrew is especially less uniform, different patches in the same squadrons, different style nametags, different style wings, 2pc vs 1pc flight suits, different generations and materials of jackets.
> 
> But now is there a reason they wear red, blue, and white tshirts at 410.. or is it just a "lets make it look more like TopGun for the cameras?



I heard that red, blue and white had a signification.  Blue were for Standards officers (those who do the flight tests), red for line instructors and white for students. That way, by a simple look, you know who you are faced with.

Max


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## aesop081 (12 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I heard that red, blue and white had a signification.  Blue were for Standards officers (those who do the flight tests), red for line instructors and white for students. That way, by a simple look, you know who you are faced with.



I dont see how people could mistake anyone for someone they are not. No other OTU in this country seems to have a problem differentiating between students, instructors and standards personel.


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## Crimmsy (12 Jan 2008)

Everyone wears blue t-shirts there now.


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## SupersonicMax (12 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I dont see how people could mistake anyone for someone they are not. No other OTU in this country seems to have a problem differentiating between students, instructors and standards personel.



CDN Aviator, why do airforce have olive green flight suits and army as relish uniforms?  That's identity purposes.  That's the way it was in MJ before the blue shirts.  I assume it was the same kind of deal at 410.

Max


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## aesop081 (12 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> CDN Aviator, why do airforce have olive green flight suits and army as relish uniforms?  That's identity purposes.  That's the way it was in MJ before the blue shirts.  I assume it was the same kind of deal at 410.
> 
> Max



Well shit...i guess i dont know anything then  :

Since 410 has gone to blue shirts, how the heck do they manage to get any training done ? 

I have been to basic aircrew training, the OTU and now 3 years of operational flying and i have never needed a coloured t-shirt to know who was who.

And my flightsuit isnt green so the army guys know what i do.


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## George Wallace (12 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> CDN Aviator, why do airforce have olive green flight suits and army as relish uniforms?  That's identity purposes.



That is not the real reason, but it does create an environment where identity is easily made.  Politics was the major/real reason, but that is a whole different ball of wax, and a derailment of this topic. 



			
				SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> That's the way it was in MJ before the blue shirts.  I assume it was the same kind of deal at 410.



There is that "ASSUME" word........We all know what that makes.   ;D


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## Zoomie (13 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> CDN Aviator, why do airforce have olive green flight suits and army as relish uniforms?



Wait for it.... CADPAT 2 piece is in the system.

Everyone at MJ is now sporting blue t-shirts - some die hards may still be wearing red shirts - that is for the WCWO to sort out.


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## aesop081 (13 Jan 2008)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Wait for it.... CADPAT 2 piece is in the system.



However will we ever know whos in the army and the AF then ?

The horror

 :


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> However will we ever know whos in the army and the AF then ?
> 
> The horror
> 
> :



God, you really can't understand what I mean.  Why do we have a blue DEU and the Army a green?  Why do we have different shoulder patches?  Why do I have a different patch than my friends in an other flight?  Do I really need a patch to tell they are in an other flight?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (13 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> However will we ever know whos in the army and the AF then ?



Big waistlines and long hair?..........................Hey, I'm just trying to help here. :-*


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## Good2Golf (13 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> God, you really can't understand what I mean.  Why do we have a blue DEU and the Army a green?  Why do we have different shoulder patches?  Why do I have a different patch than my friends in an other flight?  Do I really need a patch to tell they are in an other flight?



Different colours are for parades...simple as that - there is absolutely no functional reason for blue/green/black.  Operators wear operational clothing - form follows function.  If you have the possibility of becoming foot-borne and having to "shoot, move, communicate", you will appreciate looking as much like your Army brethren as possible, hence why aviators will be moving to the 2-pc CADPAT flying suit in the near future.  If you don't like it, just make sure you don't flunk out of Cold Lake.

Canuck aviators will look very similar to our brothers to the South (CADPAT variant vs. A2CU) 

G2G


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jan 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Different colours are for parades...simple as that - there is absolutely no functional reason for blue/green/black.  Operators wear operational clothing - form follows function.  If you have the possibility of becoming foot-borne and having to "shoot, move, communicate", you will appreciate looking as much like your Army brethren as possible, hence why aviators will be moving to the 2-pc CADPAT flying suit in the near future.  If you don't like it, just make sure you don't flunk out of Cold Lake.
> 
> Canuck aviators will look very similar to our brothers to the South (CADPAT variant vs. A2CU)
> 
> G2G



G2G, I'm not saying I don't like it.  I'm trying to explain why would aircrew in MJ would use Red/White/Blue t-shirts under the flying suit.  Some seem to say it's something that would warrant Crucifixion.  I'm just trying to make the point that people like to have a feeling of "apartenance" towards their unit, and it was a way to do that.

Max


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## TCBF (13 Jan 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ... If you have the possibility of becoming foot-borne and having to "shoot, move, communicate", A2CU)
> 
> G2G



- And here all along I though that jet fighters also "shoot, move, communicate".

 ;D

- Frau: "Do you think the girl will make it?"
- TCBF: "If she hadn't, it wouldn't be on TV."

 8)


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## Good2Golf (13 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> G2G, I'm not saying I don't like it.  I'm trying to explain why would aircrew in MJ would use Red/White/Blue t-shirts under the flying suit.  Some seem to say it's something that would warrant Crucifixion.  I'm just trying to make the point that people like to have a feeling of "apartenance" towards their unit, and it was a way to do that.
> 
> Max



They shouldn't.  CANAIRGEN directs all to wear the standard dark blue t-shirt.  If you don't, you're not clicking your heels to CAS' direction.

G2G


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jan 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> They shouldn't.  CANAIRGEN directs all to wear the standard dark blue t-shirt.  If you don't, you're not clicking your heels to CAS' direction.
> 
> G2G



They don't anymore.  They did before the blue shirt was issued.

Max


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## dimsum (13 Jan 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> ...hence why aviators will be moving to the 2-pc CADPAT flying suit in the near future.



When's the timeframe for the new duds?


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## Good2Golf (13 Jan 2008)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> When's the timeframe for the new duds?



Nothing formal, but looks like fall '08 to start.


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## niceasdrhuxtable (13 Jan 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Nothing formal, but looks like fall '08 to start.



Do you know if it will be replacing the 1 piece, aswell?


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## I_am_John_Galt (13 Jan 2008)

niceasdrhuxtable said:
			
		

> Do you know if it will be replacing the 1 piece, aswell?


Not for ejection seat aircraft!


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## dimsum (13 Jan 2008)

Anyone care to take bets on when we go back to CADPAT slip-ons?   :


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## SupersonicMax (13 Jan 2008)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Anyone care to take bets on when we go back to CADPAT slip-ons?   :



Did we have CADTAP slip ons on flying suits?


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## Good2Golf (13 Jan 2008)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Anyone care to take bets on when we go back to CADPAT slip-ons?   :



Don't expect it.  CAG is now the standard for operational Air Force gear.


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## aesop081 (13 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Did we have CADTAP slip ons on flying suits?



They started apearing on flightsuits when the old OD green ones were discontinued.


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## Rusty_Poth (15 Jan 2008)

Red is the main colour of 410. Their hockey jersey's are the same as the Flames.

The blue tshirts were issued to us when the CADPAD was issued, you were issued 3 blue shirts, that is the only colour you are allowed to wear in uniform.

For the most part it was totally up to the individual what he wanted to wear on the flightline, as long as it wasn't derogetory or sexist. And most times you would purchase a tshirt from the Squadron Kit Shop.

As for the show, I thought it was sorta kinda cheesy. A full recruiting video if you ask me.

Guys from the RCD in the late 80's might have recognized the guy giving the instruction on the ejection seat, him and I were in Germany in the mid 80's. I do not want to mention his name here, but if you PM me I can tell you who it is.


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## volition (16 Jan 2008)

Another cool show yesterday!! Too bad about the guy that called it quits...What happens to him, does he leave the military, or does he gets qualified on another aircraft? :skull:


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## Haletown (16 Jan 2008)

Yesterday's episode was excellent.  I am enjoying the series and my wife is even watching   . .  and she hates airplane shows.

Wonder if they will ever show a CRUD game in the mess . . .  now that will scare a few folks


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## 23007 (16 Jan 2008)

volition said:
			
		

> Another cool show yesterday!! Too bad about the guy that called it quits...What happens to him, does he leave the military, or does he gets qualified on another aircraft? :skull:



He's in Portage now on the multi course.


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## volition (16 Jan 2008)

23007 said:
			
		

> He's in Portage now on the multi course.



That's cool!


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## medaid (22 Jan 2008)

CADPAT flight suit eh? 


So... anyone up for CADPAT flight bags? Helmet bags and other things CADPAT related? Neat little stow bags, JEPPESEN bags? Come on folks, sky's the limit ;D literally.


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## I_am_John_Galt (22 Jan 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> CADPAT flight suit eh?
> 
> 
> So... anyone up for CADPAT flight bags? Helmet bags and other things CADPAT related? Neat little stow bags, JEPSEN bags? Come on folks, sky's the limit ;D literally.



Actually the new helmet bags are OTS US old school woodland camo ... what's a JEPSEN bag?


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## medaid (22 Jan 2008)

Aden_Gatling said:
			
		

> Actually the new helmet bags are OTS US old school woodland camo ... what's a JEPSEN bag?



JEPPESEN... um the charts mate? Don't we use charts in the CF?

Had to whip one out more then once when I flew with a friend in a weee tiny little cessna


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## Strike (22 Jan 2008)

Um, that would be JEPPESEN.


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## I_am_John_Galt (22 Jan 2008)

As in _flight bags made by Jeppesen_ (or ASA, or whoever) ... sorry, little slow on the uptake this morning.  Someone might correct me on this, but with the possible exception of some part of the TacHel community, I don't think there's a lot of enthusiasm for CADPAT everything in the Air Force.


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## medaid (22 Jan 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Um, that would be JEPPESEN.



OH bah... alright I will go back and fix em all  thanks Strike.


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## Zoomie (22 Jan 2008)

We don't use Jep products in Canada - we produce our own FLIPs and maps.


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## medaid (22 Jan 2008)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> We don't use Jep products in Canada - we produce our own FLIPs and maps.




roger. Thanks Zoomie!


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## Good2Golf (22 Jan 2008)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> We don't use Jep products in Canada - we produce our own FLIPs and maps.



Some fleets use Jep products, Griffon being one of them as an MPS feed for VOR and ILS.

Cheers
G2G


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## Globesmasher (22 Jan 2008)

The transport community uses Jeppesen approach plates quite a bit.
We have a published heirarchy regarding what type of approach plates we can use, and although Jepps are at the bottom of the list we are sometimes left with nothing else.
We then get the ICP school involved to help us "TERP" the plates.

We also use Jeppesen flight planning and dispatching services ............. a lot.
There's really no other easy way to file through Eurocontrol without Jeppesen services.


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## SupersonicMax (22 Jan 2008)

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> The transport community uses Jeppesen approach plates quite a bit.
> We have a published heirarchy regarding what type of approach plates we can use, and although Jepps are at the bottom of the list we are sometimes left with nothing else.
> We then get the ICP school involved to help us "TERP" the plates.
> 
> ...



Interesting.  How do "normal" operators file usually??  Also through Jepp?

Max


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## Zoomie (22 Jan 2008)

Since we were discussing paper Jep products (ie FLIPs) and not the digital type (GPS data card, Jet Plan, etc) - my point still stands for in-Canada use.  Every unit will have a set of Jep plates somewhere on their dusty shelves.


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## volition (23 Jan 2008)

Another great show!! Man, it makes me happy that i`m a helicopter man! ;D >


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## JBoyd (23 Jan 2008)

volition said:
			
		

> Another great show!! Man, it makes me happy that i`m a helicopter man! ;D >



I agree, I hope Shamus picks up his act, and its sad about Lewis, but I guess thats the way it goes.


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## Strike (23 Jan 2008)

SPOILER ALERT!!

I think Lewis eventually makes it through, since he's currently listed at 409 Sqn as  pilot.


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## JBoyd (23 Jan 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> SPOILER ALERT!!
> 
> I think Lewis eventually makes it through, since he's currently listed at 409 Sqn as  pilot.



well they did mention might be able to take another course later on


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## Remius (23 Jan 2008)

My eyes feel like hurt.


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## I_am_John_Galt (23 Jan 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> SPOILER ALERT!!
> 
> I think Lewis eventually makes it through, since he's currently listed at 409 Sqn as  pilot.




He did the G-desensitization course on the Tutors at AETE and then recoursed onto the next serial (and passed).


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## medaid (23 Jan 2008)

why are we all whispering?


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## JBoyd (23 Jan 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> why are we all whispering?



So that people that did not wish to be spoiled by what was being said wouldn't be


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## observor 69 (23 Jan 2008)

Great program. I was afraid it was going to be dumbed down for the "viewing public" but as soon as they got into flying it has been greaaaat.  

Curiosity... last night they seemed to imply that one more of the group was going to fail?? Anyone else get that?

Thing I am finding a bit surprising, I have been around jets for a long long time but I am still learning small details I didn't know or never fully appreciated. Such as jet fighters have high wing loading and that explains the need for afterburners and also the shitty glide ratio.
When I took trips in the CF-101 Voodoo we had an approach speed of around 160 if I recall correctly and that is also the approach speed of the CF-18 ? In the program they say it is because it was designed for carrier landings but high wing loading would seem also to be a big part of it.

Bottom line I am very pleased with the production.

Oh ya one last thought to pass onto you aircrew types ref the comment you should treat groundcrew right or they could "break"  your a/c.
This is extremely rare, more like it in my experience is treat us right and when you screw up we will do our best to save your a**. Ya it happens!  ;D


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## aesop081 (23 Jan 2008)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Oh ya one last thought to pass onto you aircrew types ref the comment you should treat groundcrew right or they could "break"  your a/c.
> This is extremely rare, more like it in my experience is *treat us right * and when you screw up we will do our best to save your a**. Ya it happens!  ;D



Works both ways. Technicians who act like a**holes towards the aircrews often find themselves with a shift full of snags to fix when the aircraft returns. Yeah , i cant go flying unless you fix my plane but thats not a liscence to act like a total jacka** !! If i dont fly, you dont have a job.


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## JBoyd (23 Jan 2008)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Curiosity... last night they seemed to imply that one more of the group was going to fail?? Anyone else get that?



If I had to guess I would say Shamus, as from what I can see he keeps making critical mistakes.


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## aesop081 (23 Jan 2008)

JBoyd said:
			
		

> If I had to guess I would say Shamus, as from what I can see he keeps making critical mistakes.



i would like to see how you would do in his place 

 :


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## SupersonicMax (24 Jan 2008)

JBoyd said:
			
		

> If I had to guess I would say Shamus, as from what I can see he keeps making critical mistakes.



JBoyd, I find, from my personal experience, that they (the producers) make it sound like every little thing is critical, which isn't always the case.  Yes, missing checks is a big deal.  But that's training.  Training is where you make mistakes.  We are expected to make mistakes!  Keep in mind that people going at 410 from the pipeline have approximately 350 hrs total time.  And they put you in a fighter aircraft (if you don't know, as a matter of comparison, Air Canada doesn't hire people below 2500 hours and they put them in the right seat).  Also keep in mind that the course is only 90 hours long and you are acting as the Aircraft Captain.  There is a lot pressure to do stuff quickly and to do it good.

Have confidence in the training system.  It makes good pilots and believe me, the instructors are very critical of the students' work.  They will nail you on every little mistake you make.


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## 23007 (24 Jan 2008)

JBoyd said:
			
		

> If I had to guess I would say Shamus, as from what I can see he keeps making critical mistakes.



I know who fails off but I'm NOT saying! It's definitely NOT Shamus. For all the twitching that guy does, he is an amazing pilot.


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## Kat Stevens (24 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> i would like to see how you would do in his place
> 
> :




Holy crap, lighten up, Francis.... He's talking about a TV show.  Ever yell at a hockey ref on tv?  I'd like to see you do better....eeeesh.


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## JBoyd (24 Jan 2008)

Don't get me wrong, I have only the utmost respect for what they are doing , and I certainly don't think I could do better than each of them given the chance. Was only pointing out what the show seemed to have been foreshadowing. 

Max, that certainly is interesting information, and I can see how the show would obviously put a spin on every little thing making it look huge.


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## Ali G (24 Jan 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Holy crap, lighten up, Francis.... He's talking about a TV show.  Ever yell at a hockey ref on tv?  I'd like to see you do better....eeeesh.



Totally agree.


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## observor 69 (24 Jan 2008)

23007 said:
			
		

> I know who fails off but I'm NOT saying! It's definitely NOT Shamus. For all the twitching that guy does, he is an amazing pilot.



First let me say I have nothing but respect for these people, I understand the demands and stress they are under and admire anyone who can perform at that level.
But...my guess for the student who doesn't make it is Capt. Riel Erickson. She is having trouble with her landings... Smart, very smart, sharp individual but.....


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## Sf2 (24 Jan 2008)

Another SPOILER - well not really, but an issue of MAPLE LEAF last year featured the folks who completed the course.


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## Strike (24 Jan 2008)

You can always check the address book on the DIN too.


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## Haletown (24 Jan 2008)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Another SPOILER - well not really, but an issue of MAPLE LEAF last year featured the folks who completed the course.



DO NOT read this if you DO NOT want to know.

Your choice 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/article_e.asp?id=3382


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## observor 69 (24 Jan 2008)

Haletown said:
			
		

> DO NOT read this if you DO NOT want to know.
> 
> Your choice
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/article_e.asp?id=3382



Thanks, personally I think I will find each show more interesting now that I know who does and does not make it.


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## CougarKing (30 Jan 2008)

From tonight's episode, I remember seeing Lt. "Shamus" Allen put up a handwritten sign on paper "SHAMUS, FOCUS" during their long flight to LAX. 

Then he is seen taking a dip at a beach in LA where a sign clearly says "DO NOT SWIM". Then when they're back in Cold Lake, he questions a veteran flight instructor, who has the patch that confirms he's flown 2000 hours on Hornets, on some manuevers that involve simple geometry; earning an instructor's ire is not something Shamus would want to do.

Oh well...  ;D


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## benny88 (30 Jan 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> a veteran flight instructor who has the patch that confirms he's flown 2000 hours



   I noticed the patch said "F/A-18." But he seemed to have CF flight epaulets and flight suit. A pilot who has been on exchange with the USN/USMC?


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

There is no CF-18 1000 hrs patch or 2000 hrs patch.  Just F/A-18.

Max


----------



## Inch (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> There is no CF-18 1000 hrs patch or 2000 hrs patch.  Just F/A-18.
> 
> Max



https://www.dbembroidery.com/product_info.php?products_id=15093&sid=1f5201f77a9fd16f297f80fed61f46f1

Amazing what an embroidery shop can make isn't it?


----------



## observor 69 (30 Jan 2008)

Last nights program was greeeeat.  ;D
For a poor old ground crew who never got to see this side of flying I'm lovin' it.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

Inch said:
			
		

> https://www.dbembroidery.com/product_info.php?products_id=15093&sid=1f5201f77a9fd16f297f80fed61f46f1
> 
> Amazing what an embroidery shop can make isn't it?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but they can't wear this  one can they?  I always thought the F/A-18 XXXX hours patches were giveng by Boeing.

Max


----------



## volition (30 Jan 2008)

Another great show! ;D


----------



## Haletown (30 Jan 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> I noticed the patch said "F/A-18." But he seemed to have CF flight epaulets and flight suit. A pilot who has been on exchange with the USN/USMC?



Or Australia.  Notice one of the IP's is an Aussie and we have exchange programs across the Forces with Australia.

Also when we downsized the Air Force in the mid nineties, a bunch or our 18 jockies checked out of the CF and enrolled directly in the RAAF at the same rank etc.

Had a very good party in a North Sydney bar on Canada Day/July 1st with a bunch of them  a few years back.


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> First let me say I have nothing but respect for these people, I understand the demands and stress they are under and admire anyone who can perform at that level.
> But...my guess for the student who doesn't make it is Capt. Riel Erickson. She is having trouble with her landings... Smart, very smart, sharp individual but.....



I agree.

I mean maybe it is just the producers trying to make the show more interesting, but some of the mistakes she has made seem to be extremely bad.  Like as in why is she still there?

I am paraphrasing, but they did say something on the show to the affect of she almost killed 3 people.  Any job where I have worked before, if I almost killed 3 people, I probably would have my ass canned so fast that it would be unreal.

And from the standpoint of a taxpayer, I don't care if you have spent millions of my dollars training a pilot, if they can't hack it then remove them.

Same goes for Capt. Mike Lewis, if you faint 3 times in a row, then something is going on.  Whether it be physiological or physical.  Something is going wrong. So just cut the taxpayers losses and put him somewhere else.  However, from what the show was saying he was given a chance to do the centrifuge again, but would have to pass it multiple times.  I'm sorry, but that is a waste of the taxpayers money.

This is one of the hardest jobs in the world and there is a lot expected.  If you are not up to par, then cut the losses and try somebody new.

Again, as much as a rant this is, just like to point out it is my unexperienced opinion. For what that's worth.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (30 Jan 2008)

I think they made the right call on Capt. Lewis. 

I personally liked the pre-centrifuge 4 layer burger and smoke shot of Capt. Lewis. They say that helps the Pilot for the test, but those combined with nerves, I think I would be in the can not the centrifuge.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I mean maybe it is just the producers trying to make the show more interesting, but some of the mistakes she has made seem to be extremely bad.  Like as in why is she still there?
> 
> I am paraphrasing, but they did say something on the show to the affect of she almost killed 3 people.  Any job where I have worked before, if I almost killed 3 people, I probably would have my ass canned so fast that it would be unreal.



 :

Another Microsoft pilot has spoken


----------



## Strike (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I agree.
> 
> I mean maybe it is just the producers trying to make the show more interesting, but some of the mistakes she has made seem to be extremely bad.  Like as in why is she still there?



As opposed to overtemp-ing an engine during a practice engine failure or taking your aircraft up on your first solo after repeatedly having warnings about the integrity of the flight control systems?



> Same goes for Capt. Mike Lewis, if you faint 3 times in a row, then something is going on.  Whether it be physiological or physical.  Something is going wrong. So just cut the taxpayers losses and put him somewhere else.  However, from what the show was saying he was given a chance to do the centrifuge again, but would have to pass it multiple times.  I'm sorry, but that is a waste of the taxpayers money.
> 
> This is one of the hardest jobs in the world and there is a lot expected.  If you are not up to par, then cut the losses and try somebody new.



Over at least 2 million has been put into training a student up to this point (am including schooling in this).  What's an extra $1500 in travel costs to send someone of to the centrifuge?  A helluva lot less than throwing that couple of mill out the window and spending the same amount on someone new.



> Again, as much as a rant this is, just like to point out it is my unexperienced opinion. For what that's worth.



Just remember that there are many more experienced people kicking around here (and in Cold Lake).  I'm sure the instructors didn't keep these people on course simply because they liked them.  The government and CF trust them to instruct these students and make the right decisions about who stays and who goes.  So should you.  After all, they ARE the experienced ones.  (I can't believe I just said something nice about fighter guys.  Something must seriously be freezing over right now.  ;D)


----------



## observor 69 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I agree.
> 
> I mean maybe it is just the producers trying to make the show more interesting, but some of the mistakes she has made seem to be extremely bad.  Like as in why is she still there?
> 
> ...



If you check back in the thread you will notice I have since gained more info about who graduates.
You  might want to look into that.


----------



## JohnnyG (30 Jan 2008)

I'm pretty sure when Mike was recoursed, he finished top of his course. So I guess it was a good decision to recourse him then give him the boot.


----------



## Elwood (30 Jan 2008)

Capt. Lewis is an excellent pilot on the show... I'm sure he'll show up a few times in future episodes (at least at graduation or to sweep more popcorn  ). Shamus I'm not too sure of, but his hot-shot antics adds a lot to the show. Gotta love the "dude, wait... what?" look he always gives whenever the instructors pin him for a screw-up.

I like how episode 3 showed a lot of the ground crew. I hope this theme continues, because it's awesome to see all sides of working with the CF-18.


----------



## IGA (30 Jan 2008)

Very interesting show, really shows how difficult physically, academically, and how mentally determined and tough you have to be. And how important it is to have confidence in yourself. Shamus seems to be making mistakes, but he also seems to know what he is doing wrong. So hopefully he can correct his problem. It was very disappointing watching Capt Lewis blackout on his final centrifuge test. The last time I was so disappointed watching tv was  in 94 when the Canucks lost game seven. I'm not sure of the pilots name, but coming in to the training late, and doing as well as he is doing is very impressive.


----------



## CougarKing (30 Jan 2008)

IGA said:
			
		

> I'm not sure of the pilots name, but coming in to the training late, and doing as well as he is doing is very impressive.



You're talking about Lt. Mcleod right? The one who started the course a month after everyone else did but still managed to catch up? You can look more info on the CF188 pilot candidates/"chumps" (well not so much "chumps" anymore, actually  ;D) on the ff. link: 

http://www.discoverychannel.ca/jetstream/#/student/8/


----------



## Loachman (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> it is my unexperienced opinion.



Bingo.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but they can't wear this  one can they?  I always thought the F/A-18 XXXX hours patches were giveng by Boeing.
> 
> Max



I'm sure once you get there you can tell buddy to take it off.


----------



## Inch (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but they can't wear this  one can they?  I always thought the F/A-18 XXXX hours patches were giveng by Boeing.
> 
> Max



Why not? The Sqn CO has incredible powers of badge approval for wear. We come up with new Detachment badges for every deployment, so why wouldn't a guy be allowed to wear a 2000 hr badge if it's approved by the CO? I couldn't tell you if it is approved or not, but that's between that guy and the CO of his Sqn. I have worn at least half a dozen different ones since I've been in Shearwater.


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :
> 
> Another Microsoft pilot has spoken



I really take offense to this, because I don't play flight simulators.

I was looking to come from the viewpoint of a taxpayer.  You have to understand that the way I see it, is that at some point, somebody has the tough job of saying, yeah time to cut our losses.

What I am trying to get out of this, and the way the show brings it across to me, is that there are different standards for different people.
As in the instructors are like, ""ah shucks, he is a nice guy, he has wanted to be a pilot all his life.  Let's give him another shot."
At some point the CF has to be accountable, to me the taxpayer, that they are going to cut their losses.

Maybe it comes from the fact that I worked with a company that spent tens of thousands training new employees, and if at a certain point they felt someone was behind in training, or was inadequate in anyway, then they would send them packing.  Sure they might work out in the future. As is the case with Capt. Lewis, but how many times are they going to send him back to the centrifuge, 10, 20...100 times?  When is enough, enough?

There has to be a standard for everybody, no matter their sex, gender, age, race, etc....
when there comes that time to part ways.
It is a simple question that every taxpayer deserves to have answered.

Again, I reiterate, this is the way the show brings it across to me. So I am looking for a sensible answer.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I really take offense to this, because I don't play flight simulators.
> 
> I was looking to come from the viewpoint of a taxpayer.  You have to understand that the way I see it, is that at some point, somebody has the tough job of saying, yeah time to cut our losses.
> 
> ...


Steel Horse, when I did my G course, we were told at the beginning that it IS NOT an elimination course.  This is an exposure only.  You just have to pass it eventually.

Max


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I am paraphrasing, but they did say something on the show to the affect of she almost killed 3 people.  Any job where I have worked before, if I almost killed 3 people, I probably would have my *** canned so fast that it would be unreal.



Don't forget that this is training.  Mistakes are boud to happen, especially when you have around 350 hours total time and 40-50 hours on the Hornet.  This isn't training for a desk job where you type in stuff.  It's hard, there are huge risks involved and it's just part of the training.  There would be no instructor in the back there would be no risk.

Max


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Steel Horse, when I did my G course, we were told at the beginning that it IS NOT an elimination course.  This is an exposure only.  You just have to pass it eventually.
> 
> Max



Okay, from the way the show puts it, it is an elimination course.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> Okay, from the way the show puts it, it is an elimination course.



I find the show puts a lot of thing not like they really are.

Max


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I really take offense to this, because I don't play flight simulators.



I guess you couldnt figure out what i meant.



> I was looking to come from the viewpoint of a taxpayer.  You have to understand that the way I see it, is that at some point, somebody has the tough job of saying, yeah time to cut our losses.



Millions of dollars already went into training this guy. Is another 1500 bucks realy going to kill the taxpayer ? Or is that small amount going to save a few millions ? Or did you just miss the part where he was taken off the course after the 3rd attempt ?



> What I am trying to get out of this, and the way the show brings it across to me, is that there are different standards for different people.
> As in the instructors are like, ""ah shucks, he is a nice guy, he has wanted to be a pilot all his life.  Let's give him another shot."
> At some point the CF has to be accountable, to me the taxpayer, that they are going to cut their losses.



Again, you must have been sleeping when they cut him from the course after the 3rd try.



> Maybe it comes from the fact that I worked with a company that *spent tens of thousands * training new employees, and if at a certain point they felt someone was behind in training, or was inadequate in anyway, then they would send them packing.  Sure they might work out in the future. As is the case with Capt. Lewis, but how many times are they going to send him back to the centrifuge, 10, 20...100 times?  When is enough, enough?



The CF, in this case is not dealing with "tens of thousands" bit with millions of dollars. You are comparing apples to oranges. This guy was already a qualified pilot and spent time as a flight instructor. he more than gave back to the taxpayer for their investment in him. 




> There has to be a standard for everybody, no matter their sex, gender, age, race, etc....
> when there comes that time to part ways.
> It is a simple question that every taxpayer deserves to have answered.



There is a standard and it was applied. You saw it for yourself. Stop trying to see a problem where there isnt one.


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I find the show puts a lot of thing not like they really are.
> 
> Max



Yeah thanks for setting me straight.





			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I guess you couldnt figure out what i meant.



Yeah, I understand now.  I still take offense to the comment.  I was looking for someone to set me straight on the issue.



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Millions of dollars already went into training this guy. Is another 1500 bucks realy going to kill the taxpayer ? Or is that small amount going to save a few millions ? Or did you just miss the part where he was taken off the course after the 3rd attempt ?
> 
> Again, you must have been sleeping when they cut him from the course after the 3rd try.



Yes, millions of dollars have been spent, but what I am saying is they let him stay around at the squadron until he can attempt the centrifuge again.  Why not put him on multi-engine?



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The CF, in this case is not dealing with "tens of thousands" bit with millions of dollars. You are comparing apples to oranges. This guy was already a qualified pilot and spent time as a flight instructor. he more than gave back to the taxpayer for their investment in him.
> 
> There is a standard and it was applied. You saw it for yourself. Stop trying to see a problem where there isnt one.



Okay, so the standard is to give a guy 3 chances, then let him keep trying until he passes?

I am not saying throw him out of the military. What I am saying is he is a qualified pilot. Why not have him flying hercs or something?


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> Yes, millions of dollars have been spent, but what I am saying is they let him stay around at the squadron until he can attempt the centrifuge again.  Why not put him on multi-engine?



He had , in the estimation of the instructors ( from what i saw) good potential as a fast jet guy. He was doing well up to that point in the course. The guy has lots of jet time already. The fighter comunity is short people and could use people with experience. The only hurdle was the centifuge. Why not keep the guy where he is until the problem is rectified. The fact that he eventualy passed the FPC proves that the sytem works and that the right thing was done.


----------



## CougarKing (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I am not saying throw him out of the military. What I am saying is he is a qualified pilot. Why not have him flying hercs or something?



Umm...it was stated earlier, by the poster known as 23007 in the thread, that he is now on the multi course.



> > Quote from: volition on January 16, 2008, 08:12:40
> > Another cool show yesterday!! Too bad about the guy that called it quits...What happens to him, does he leave the military, or does he gets qualified on another aircraft?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Inch (30 Jan 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Umm...it was stated earlier in the thread that he is now on the multi course.



Different guy, Coffin is on the Multi course bound for CC177s. They're talking about Lewis who eventually passed the Hornet OTU.


----------



## CougarKing (30 Jan 2008)

Inch said:
			
		

> Different guy, Coffin is on the Multi course bound for CC177s. They're talking about Lewis who eventually passed the Hornet OTU.



My mistake. Thanks.


----------



## 23007 (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Steel Horse, when I did my G course, we were told at the beginning that it IS NOT an elimination course.  This is an exposure only.  You just have to pass it eventually.
> 
> Max



Max, isn't the G-course done on 2B different from the centrifuge done at 410? I think you go there twice. But I could be wrong...


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> He had , in the estimation of the instructors ( from what i saw) good potential as a fast jet guy. He was doing well up to that point in the course. The guy has lots of jet time already. The fighter comunity is short people and could use people with experience. The only hurdle was the centifuge. Why not keep the guy where he is until the problem is rectified. The fact that he eventualy passed the FPC proves that the sytem works and that the right thing was done.



True enough, from what I saw he is a good pilot and does have seat time.

However, something like the centrifuge should not be looked at as a "hurdle" in my opinion (again for what that is worth).
To me, a hurdle is say learning to do a task in a specified time.
I mean the doctor they interviewed on the show basically said he could not explain what was happening, though he thought he was psychological.
What is shown there is a a safety concern.
I mean I don't know how many times he had to pass the test in the future to get back on the course, but he will always have those run of three black outs on the centrifuge that he carries with him.

Anyway I will leave it at that as someone with a lot of experience has made the choice to keep him.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> Anyway I will leave it at that as someone with a lot of experience has made the choice to keep him.



You should have left it there to begin with. You ,as a Taxpayer, pay those people to make the right decision. Enjoy the show and leave the rest to the professionals.


----------



## Elwood (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I am not saying throw him out of the military. What I am saying is he is a qualified pilot. Why not have him flying hercs or something?



After the common pilot training Phase II in Moose Jaw, pilots selected to train on jets complete Phase IIB and Phase III unlike other pilots who are streamed into helo or muti. Mike's already been doing a lot of training getting ready for jets, so making him go helo or multi at this point isn't cost-effective from a taxpayer's point of view.

Episode 3 mentions that Mike has been doing G-manouvers in his fighter lead-in course. Also, the reason for his failing the centrifuge was a mental block... not due to any physical problems. Giving him time to get ready for it was the best solution.

Did anyone notice that in every centrifuge test, Mike always took such shallow breaths, and he never listened to the instructor when to breathe in Episode 1? I know he's passed everything now, but I still think that if he breathed properly the first time, he wouldv'e passed it.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

23007 said:
			
		

> Max, isn't the G-course done on 2B different from the centrifuge done at 410? I think you go there twice. But I could be wrong...



That's the same one if you go fly the Hawk.  We did everything they did.  There are 2 centrifuge profiles : one for CT-156 and CT-114 pilots and one for CT-155 and CT-188 pilots.  If you go Jets, you do the CT-155 profile since you fly the Hawk.  You don't have to do it ever again after that.

Max


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You should have left it there to begin with. You ,as a Taxpayer, pay those people to make the right decision. Enjoy the show and leave the rest to the professionals.



I just think there should be a standard for pilots on the centrifuge. If someone of experience wants to give him another shot then so be it.

However, I do pay them to make the right decision, but they are also accountable to the taxpayer.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> However, I do pay them to make the right decision, but they are also accountable to the taxpayer.



For the love of all that is good an pure   :

 I want you to report to 410 Sqn tomorow morning so that you can be the CO there and make those decisions yourself. You are obviously incapable of trusting professionals to operate within the rules and regulations set out for them by the GoC. I suggest you also call the office of the auditor general if you feel you have been cheated out of your tax money or if you feel 410 Sqn is not operating to your standard.

Its easy to second guess from your living room couch.


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> For the love of all that is good an pure   :
> 
> I want you to report to 410 Sqn tomorow morning so that you can be the CO there and make those decisions yourself. You are obviously incapable of trusting professionals to operate within the rules and regulations set out for them by the GoC. I suggest you also call the office of the auditor general if you feel you have been cheated out of your tax money or if you feel 410 Sqn is not operating to your standard.
> 
> Its easy to second guess from your living room couch.



I am not second guessing, I said I respected the decision that was made.

I just want to know why there can't be some sort of standard put on the centrifuge.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I just want to know why there can't be some sort of standard put on the centrifuge.



 :brickwall:

There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not. The CO of 410 Sqn decided that he could not safely continue with the course and Lewis was removed.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I am not second guessing, I said I respected the decision that was made.
> 
> I just want to know why there can't be some sort of standard put on the centrifuge.



The centrifuge, most people that did it will concur, is very very different than the real plane.  The G's seem much more heavier than in the plane.  On course here, we pulled regularly 6Gs without the G pants during the advanced clearhood phase and I didn't have any problem keeping the vision.  In the centrifuge, I really had to work at it.

Mike Lewis was an instructor on the course I'm doing now.  He pulled Gs before and never had a problem (That I know of).  He was even Pilot in Command while he was doing those manoevers.  

Max


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :brickwall:
> 
> There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not. The CO of 410 Sqn decided that he could not safely continue with the course and Lewis was removed.



So there is an established standard and it was broken?  What is the point of a standard then?


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :brickwall:
> 
> There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not. The CO of 410 Sqn decided that he could not safely continue with the course and Lewis was removed.



CDN Aviator, as I said, the centrifuge isn't an elimination course.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> CDN Aviator, as I said, the centrifuge isn't an elimination course.



I know but this guy is too thick to understand.........


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I know but this guy is too thick to understand.........



Now you are insulting me?

I understood that when it was pointed out earlier and then you said in regards to a standard for the centrifuge, and I quote, "There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not."


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Pay attention now, i'm going to say this in both official languages :

The commanding officer of 410 Sqn removed Captain Lewis from the course as he felt that he could not safely continue without completeing the centrifuge to 6G for 15 seconds.

Is that standard enough for you ?


L'officier commandant de l'escadron 410 a enlever le capitaine Lewis du cours car il n'avais pas confience qu'il pouvait completer le cours securitairement sans complete 6G pour 15 secondes dans la centrifuge.

Es-ce que c'est un standard sufisant pout toi ?


----------



## Elwood (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse, you're making a dumb argument with experienced people.   

Chill out dude. Enjoy the show and this site.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Elwood said:
			
		

> Steel Horse, you're making a dumb argument with experienced people.



For clarity, i'm not an F-18 pilot.......i'm not even a pilot.

But the AF did pay for a few holliday Inn express rooms for me


----------



## Loachman (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> Anyway I will leave it at that as someone with a lot of experience has made the choice to keep him.



Not that you have any say in the matter, but...

This is precisely the function of the OTU staff - CO, Standards Guys, Instructors, Course Director, Flight Surgeon, etcetera.

You could see how long it took to reach the decision, and how much they wrestled with it.

Occasionally, some intelligent discretion has to be applied rather than straight cut-and-dried performance criteria.

Is it really a good idea to cut somebody with experience and a lot of potential when reasonable corrective measures can be applied at a fraction of the cost invested to date? Can we afford to do that when we are extremely short of pilots?

I have been on both sides of this situation, both as a student with some difficulties (and, yes, there were a couple of times during training when I "could have" killed somebody, depending upon one's definition of "could have" and how much one wanted to hype it up for a television programme) and as a senior instructor agonizing, with other instructors and DCO/CI, whether or not a particular borderline student should pass or fail.

The blunt responses that you received were due to the way you worded your posts, including the one from which I quoted . A reasonable question would have received a reasonable answer, but stating what should have been done in front of several of us who have direct experience with this proven system tends to cause the type of reaction that you got. From what I have seen, the fighter pilot training system is doing what it is supposed to do - developing effective fighter pilots for the CF.

Now, having defended something fighter-related again, I once more feel in need of a shower.


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Pay attention now, i'm going to say this in both official languages :
> 
> The commanding officer of 410 Sqn removed Captain Lewis from the course as he felt that he could not safely continue without completeing the centrifuge to 6G for 15 seconds.
> 
> ...



Fine, I will leave it alone.  I just don't understand the situation.  I am trying to get a better understanding of it.

I just don't like being talk to as an idiot either.

And don't just accept something because that's the way it has always been, a new set of eyes can always add something to a situation. They bring fresh ideas to the table that should not be overlooked.


----------



## Strike (30 Jan 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Now, having defended something fighter-related again, I once more feel in need of a shower.



I feel your pain...



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> i'm not even a pilot.
> 
> But the AF did pay for a few holliday Inn express rooms for me



I need to get a patch for my helmet that says "I'm not a pilot...but I play one on tv!"

A good way to freak out the guys in back! (When I get back there anyway.)

I'm watching the show now.  Taped it last night.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I just don't like being talk to as an idiot either.




Stop posting like one 




> And don't just accept something because that's the way it has always been, a new set of eyes can always add something to a situation. They bring fresh ideas to the table that should not be overlooked.



And time-proven ways of doing buisness dont get discarded because "thats the way its always been". Why cant you just trust the people whos job it is to do this ?



			
				Strike said:
			
		

> I need to get a patch for my helmet that says "I'm not a pilot...but I play one on tv!"



I've seen one of those when i was at 403 Sqn


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Stop posting like one



Listen, you and others answered all the questions I wanted answered.
I like your blunt answers.

Just don't add in the little comments and remarks and I will be happy. No need to make things personnel.


----------



## George Wallace (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> ...........................................
> 
> Just don't add in the little comments and remarks and I will be happy. No need to make things personnel.



You picked a name: "Steel Horse".

You aren't acting like it.  

Why are people trying to join a military, any military, if their sensibilities are so easily offended?  You won't last more than a week or two on your Basic if you can't 'toughen up' some.  You also have to learn not to argue with people about things you know nothing about and may think you do, when they actually do know what they are talking about, because that is what they do for a living.


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> Listen, you and others answered all the questions I wanted answered.



Good



> I like your blunt answers.



Thanks, they're the only kind i have



> No need to make things personnel.



You come in here and say stuff about a system of which you have no knowledge about and then question the decision made by people who are professionals in that field. You do not have any sort of experience or background necessary to critisize their decisions. I'm a supervisor at my Sqn and responsible for training junior personel, i know what its like and i know what the policies are. Its a system that i work in and i take it personaly when someone unqualified to comment says its SNAFU.


----------



## evil drunken-fool (30 Jan 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You picked a name: "Steel Horse".
> 
> You aren't acting like it.
> 
> Why are people trying to join a military, any military, if their sensibilities are so easily offended?  You won't last more than a week or two on your Basic if you can't 'toughen up' some.  You also have to learn not to argue with people about things you know nothing about and may think you do, when they actually do know what they are talking about, because that is what they do for a living.



I don't have any current plans to join the military.



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You come in here and say stuff about a system of which you have no knowledge about and then question the decision made by people who are professionals in that field. You do not have any sort of experience or background necessary to critisize their decisions. I'm a supervisor at my Sqn and resposible for training junior personel, i know what its like and i know what the policies are. Its a system that i work in and i take it personaly when someone un qualified to comment says its SNAFU.



Listen, it is not my intention to personally insult you, which I can see I did from the get go.
And for that I am sorry.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jan 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You picked a name: "Steel Horse".
> 
> You aren't acting like it.
> 
> Why are people trying to join a military, any military, if their sensibilities are so easily offended?  *You won't last more than a week or two on your Basic if you can't 'toughen up' some*.  You also have to learn not to argue with people about things you know nothing about and may think you do, when they actually do know what they are talking about, because that is what they do for a living.



George, don't confuse basic training with life.  I went through Basic Training, played the game.  I never like being insulted.  

I don't think he was agruing but just looking for clarification or answers, which is fine (isn't that the best way to learn?)

Max


----------



## Nfld Sapper (30 Jan 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> George, don't confuse basic training with life.  I went through Basic Training, played the game.  I never like being insulted.
> 
> I don't think he was agruing but just looking for clarification or answers, which is fine (isn't that the best way to learn?)
> 
> Max



I think Mr. Wallace knows the difference.


----------



## Inch (30 Jan 2008)

Ok guys, enough is enough. Back on topic or this will be locked and cleaned out.

Inch
Army.ca Staff


----------



## observor 69 (31 Jan 2008)

Thank God !


----------



## crazyleggs (31 Jan 2008)

Inch,

Someone called you God.  How often does that happen?

I’m loving Jetstream and it’s one of a select few series recordings I have on my PVR.  It’s definitely “sponge worthy.” (Seinfeld ref)

Kudos to the “chumps” who are not only on the toughest course of their young careers but have to put up with cameras in their face the whole time.  Imagine having as bad a mission as Riel did on her night sortie, and the first thing you see after stepping out of your jet is a d*mn camera.  Pretty sure I couldn’t put up with that.

Note to self.  Do not eat smoked oysters during brief.  Find other way to lube brain.


----------



## volition (31 Jan 2008)

Good one ;D Sponge worthy!! Yea, I forgot about that!!! Cameras in your face!!!  :rage:


----------



## Danjanou (31 Jan 2008)

Steel Horse said:
			
		

> I don't have any current plans to join the military.



Ah thanks for small miracles


----------



## Inch (31 Jan 2008)

crazyleggs said:
			
		

> Inch,
> 
> Someone called you God.  How often does that happen?



Once or twice a week, you know how it is, but most likely you don't...  ;D


----------



## Sf2 (1 Feb 2008)

I think they should have a show about Griffon pilots, lets call it "Eggbeaters".  In one episode, Capt John "Tubby Biatch" Kocktosten (Fletch anyone?) is removed from the course after failing to safely light an immersion heater, putting his peers at significant risk.  While Lt. Alvin "Double Vision" Condester is show blasting thru the backroads of the Laurentian Valley on his 1984 Nighthawk 450.

Slice Channel, you listening?


----------



## observor 69 (1 Feb 2008)

Jetstream promo - Episode 5 - "Fight's On" 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hJP6vu87N-A

Great stuff  !


----------



## benny88 (1 Feb 2008)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Jetstream promo - Episode 5 - "Fight's On"



   That's so badass it hurts.
  
   Can't wait till Tuesday


----------



## Haletown (1 Feb 2008)

wonder if the Cold Lake Ground Crews ever have this kind of fun  . .


http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/80661/


----------



## deedster (1 Feb 2008)

Haletown said:
			
		

> wonder if the Cold Lake Ground Crews ever have this kind of fun


That was soooooo funny!  I'm loving the series, but then again, I am a CF-18 junkie.


----------



## dwalter (4 Feb 2008)

That was an amazing video. I like how the Brits seemed to do the whole thing like a freestyle marshalling competition, it could almost be the next greatest thing since hockey! OK, maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but it would be a ton of fun to see that once in a while. 

The show is absolutely thrilling, although I don't appreciate the narrator using imperial measurements for things like temperature. It confuses the younger generation who grows up in metric  Though I've been around aviation enough that I do most of my aviation measurements in the hybrid system (Thank you ICAO!).


----------



## aesop081 (4 Feb 2008)

dwalter said:
			
		

> The show is absolutely thrilling, although I don't appreciate the narrator using imperial measurements for things like temperature. It confuses the younger generation who grows up in metric



It also confuses the ATC people in Europe when you ask for your altimeter setting in inches after they gave it to you in millibars


----------



## aesop081 (4 Feb 2008)

And i grew up in metric too but the narator is right in using imperial.......


----------



## dwalter (4 Feb 2008)

Discovery channel is technically an American channel isn't it? So I guess it would make sense for them to use imperial measurements.


----------



## aesop081 (4 Feb 2008)

dwalter said:
			
		

> Discovery channel is technically an American channel isn't it? So I guess it would make sense for them to use imperial measurements.



We use mostly imperial measurments here in Canada as well......

Miles.....feet.....inches......

when you get instructions in reference to DME, its never meant in Kms is it ?


----------



## Inch (4 Feb 2008)

dwalter said:
			
		

> Discovery channel is technically an American channel isn't it? So I guess it would make sense for them to use imperial measurements.



The only things in an hourly weather report that are metric are the temperature, dew point and sea level pressure. Everything else is Imperial, wind speed in knots, visibility in statute miles, altimeter setting in inches of mercury.

In the Sea King, the only things that are metric are the temperatures as well, come to think of it, the only thing in all my previous types flown has been the temp in metric. Pressures are in psi, altimeters are in feet, speed is in knots, distance is nautical miles, etc.


----------



## dwalter (4 Feb 2008)

Inch said:
			
		

> The only things in an hourly weather report that are metric are the temperature, dew point and sea level pressure. Everything else is Imperial, wind speed in knots, visibility in statute miles, altimeter setting in inches of mercury.
> 
> In the Sea King, the only things that are metric are the temperatures as well, come to think of it, the only thing in all my previous types flown has been the temp in metric. Pressures are in psi, altimeters are in feet, speed is in knots, distance is nautical miles, etc.



I'm sorry I should have specified that's what I meant by a hybrid standard used by ICAO. They use mainly imperial measurements except temperature, but then for weather reports (As Inch said) they list visibility in statute miles where the rest of the distances are done in nautical (Curse you METARS!). When I was in Germany however all the gauges were in metric, and it confused the hell out of me. 1000 never seemed so high before hahaha. 

Just so I clear things up, I'm no military pilot, but I'm sure you figured that out if you looked at my profile. I have however been flying recreationally for a few years, so I know a little bit of what I'm talking about


----------



## observor 69 (7 Feb 2008)

Just came upon this program on OLN, Jet Set. Looks like a RAF equivalent to Jet Stream.

http://www.tsn.ca/oln/feature.asp?fid=11360

Interesting similarity.  ???


----------



## dwalter (8 Feb 2008)

Wow that does look kind of similar doesn't it? However they only get half hour episodes. Then again it is narrated by Ewen McGregor who is a cool guy. Jetstream is narrated by... The guy who narrates things on Discovery Channel! (Narrators so often sound the same).


----------



## CougarKing (8 Feb 2008)

dwalter said:
			
		

> Wow that does look kind of similar doesn't it? However they only get half hour episodes. Then again it is narrated by Ewen McGregor who is a cool guy. Jetstream is narrated by... The guy who narrates things on Discovery Channel! (Narrators so often sound the same).



Would you rather have William Shatner narrate it?  ;D   :  Reminds me of the time he narrated some old 80s or 70s TV series that focused on first responders- I think it was called "Rescue 911".
But then again, he's narrated/provided the voiceover for a lot of films/documentaries.

Also watched the first episode of "Jet Set" on OLN last night. I'm just curious, since they didn't show any centrifuge test- would these RAF pilots  have gone through the test when they were training with Hawk trainers before? I don't remember the Thales contractor/instructor mentioning it either at the lecture at the beginning of ground school in that episode.


----------



## Strike (8 Feb 2008)

Ewan's brother (Ian?) is a fighter pilot, so it would seem fitting that if you're going to have a famous actor narrate might as well get someone who has some familiarity with the life.


----------



## dwalter (9 Feb 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Would you rather have William Shatner narrate it?  ;D



Now there is an idea! Actually Leonard Nemoy does a lot of narration, and does it well. I'm sure Shatner would take any excuse to get out of All Bran and World of Warcraft ads


----------



## CougarKing (9 Feb 2008)

dwalter said:
			
		

> Now there is an idea! Actually Leonard Nemoy does a lot of narration, and does it well. I'm sure Shatner would take any excuse to get out of All Bran and World of Warcraft ads



Not to mention priceline.com ads.   :


----------



## midget-boyd91 (12 Feb 2008)

Alright folks, this is your five minute warning. It's coming on. Tear yourselves away from army.ca for an hour, and sit down in front of the T.V.

Midget


----------



## airman87 (13 Feb 2008)

Poor Coffin, he's going to end up with the callsign "nail" if he doesn't step his game up.


----------



## midget-boyd91 (13 Feb 2008)

airman87 said:
			
		

> Poor Coffin, he's going to end up with the callsign "nail" if he doesn't step his game up.


... Pretty sure his callsign is already "Nail'n", as in Nail (in the) coffin.  

Midget


----------



## airman87 (13 Feb 2008)

After watching the show for a second time today I realized that I'm a complete idiot and I know nothing about this show! I will try committing to becoming an avid watcher of the show so I won't embarrass myself anymore.


----------



## dwalter (14 Feb 2008)

I personally feel more sorry for "Blow" Haha, his last name was the bane of his existence, and there wasn't anything he could do about it.


----------



## benny88 (20 Feb 2008)

Great episode! Those Alphajets were awesome and it was nice to see the Remembrance Day Parade too. Too bad about Capt. Coffin, where is he now? 


Also, full service numbers on TV?   That ain't right is it?:rules:


----------



## 23007 (20 Feb 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Too bad about Capt. Coffin, where is he now?



Looks like he's heading back to Moose Jaw to instruct with Capt Mike Dunning....


----------



## volition (20 Feb 2008)

Another great episode!! I can't wait to see the last one next week!!


----------



## acheo (20 Feb 2008)

> Looks like he's heading back to Moose Jaw to instruct with Capt Mike Dunning....



I believe Tim is in Portage on the multi course (old syllabus).


----------



## 23007 (20 Feb 2008)

acheo said:
			
		

> I believe Tim is in Portage on the multi course (old syllabus).



He WAS on the old syllabus but now he's been voluntold to instruct in Moose Jaw.


----------



## Zoomie (20 Feb 2008)

23007 said:
			
		

> He WAS on the old syllabus but now he's been voluntold to instruct in Moose Jaw.



It was either that or he was going to pipe to instructor at 3 CFFTS (which was not going to happen).


----------



## airman87 (21 Feb 2008)

I agree that was an awesome episode. I can't wait for the final episode next week! Can't wait to see live ordnance hit the CLAWR!

It's gonna be sweeet


----------



## CougarKing (27 Feb 2008)

The final episode was great...including the part where the students had to learn their first air-to-air refuelling, or "poking" at the drogue, as well as the strafing and bombing runs.

Narrator: "And then there was Shamus..."  ;D

It was kinda funny the way the narrator made him out to be a sort of comedy relief for the show, but at least he made it.

And it's interesting to know that "Guns" Riel ws the first female fighter pilot in history to intercept a Russian Bear bomber.


----------



## dwalter (27 Feb 2008)

That final episode was really well put together. I kind of wondered how they would end things off, but it seems everything turned out for the best for everyone! There were lots of good jokes in there too.


----------



## Strike (27 Feb 2008)

Anyone notice that the Rick Mercer Report also focused on the centrifuge last night?  Watching people go through that is endless comedy.  Good on Lewis for getting through.

Seems Erickson's handle really fits her now too.  Initially given because of a lack of imagination from the instructors   and then she gets top award for bombing and straffing.  Sweet.


----------



## 23007 (27 Feb 2008)

Too bad for Tim Coffin. At the end of the episode they mentioned he is now going thru multi engine school. Too bad he got pulled off of it to go back to Moose Jaw to instruct.


----------



## Strike (27 Feb 2008)

However, he said all he wanted to do was fly.  I dare say it will be one of the most challenging postings he will get...putting his life in the hands of his students.  It also means some good hours in the log book.


----------



## Haletown (28 Feb 2008)

Seeing how a significant part of the last episode was about "poking"  . .  a fine collection of poking incidents is available for viewing




http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/


----------



## airman87 (28 Feb 2008)

Hahahsha Bobbit. That cracks me up! You wouldn't think putting a small probe into a big ol' drogue would be a problem


----------



## Strike (28 Feb 2008)

Most people still call him Monkey or Monkeyboy.


----------



## stegner (28 Feb 2008)

Is it just me or is Riel a hottie?


----------



## Strike (28 Feb 2008)

All female pilots are!   ;D


----------



## deedster (28 Feb 2008)

stegner said:
			
		

> Is it just me or is Riel a hottie?


Sorry bud...no, other than the fact that she's Top Gun, but I'm one of the female persuasion so my vote doesn't really count on this one.  Now, that Major Aynsley is a cutie.


----------



## Strike (28 Feb 2008)

Aynsley or Ayling?


----------



## deedster (28 Feb 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Aynsley or Ayling?


See how mesmerized I am... Ayling! thanks


----------



## midget-boyd91 (28 Feb 2008)

D Squared said:
			
		

> See how mesmerized I am... Ayling*Midget*! thanks


There we go.  ;D
I may not be a pilot, but I did sit in the cockpit of a CF-18.... when I was 3.


Midget


----------



## Strike (28 Feb 2008)

Were you also so mesmerized that you didn't see the ring on his finger?   ;D


----------



## stegner (28 Feb 2008)

> See how mesmerized I am... Ayling! thanks  Cheesy



If I were a girl I could go for him-most of the guy pilots were pretty good looking.  Come on you already have a cool job to pick up girls do you have to be so good looking too?


----------



## deedster (28 Feb 2008)

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> There we go.  ;D
> I may not be a pilot, but I did sit in the cockpit of a CF-18.... when I was 3.
> 
> 
> Midget


I am SO jealous UMB.. ;D
No, I mean it!


----------



## CougarKing (29 Feb 2008)

Haletown said:
			
		

> Seeing how a significant part of the last episode was about "poking"  . .  a fine collection of poking incidents is available for viewing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And speaking of which...here's a little comic strip from afblues.com which may bring back old memories of the old 50s movie "Dr. Strangelove" for some of you.  ;D


----------



## ballz (29 Feb 2008)

I can see why I failed aircrew ... I even suck at the jetstream game haha


----------



## dwalter (29 Feb 2008)

Great comic! Definitely got a kick out of it.


----------



## Good2Golf (1 Mar 2008)

stegner said:
			
		

> If I were a girl I could go for him-most of the guy pilots were pretty good looking.  Come on you already have a cool job to pick up girls do you have to be so good looking too?



Wow...thanks for sharing.....I think?


----------



## stegner (1 Mar 2008)

Good2Golf out of curiosity what do you fly?


----------



## Good2Golf (1 Mar 2008)

stegner said:
			
		

> Good2Golf out of curiosity what do you fly?



 :-\  ...a desk....

...although in a past life (and hopefully future) was all of the army helicopters from the 80's and 90's (CH136 Kiowa, CH147 Chinook, CH135 Twin-Huey and CH146 Griffon)


----------



## stegner (1 Mar 2008)

Sorry to hear that    I hope you get to fly again.

It must be pretty cool flying helicopters.  I think it was a mistake to get rid of not only the Chinook but the Kiowa also.


----------



## Good2Golf (1 Mar 2008)

Well, defence was taking a thumping and something had to go.  I joined when the military had 120,000 and have seen it sink to as low as 48,000...all the while having no less demands placed on us.

I did get several hours sitting back seat in the 18 during my OJT days...it was cool, but I'd still pick choppers if I were dropped in a time machin back to the late 80's and asked to choose all over again.

G2G


----------



## Celticgirl (1 Mar 2008)

I'm watching this show right now for the first time. It's awesome.


----------



## guns_and_roses (2 Mar 2008)

I was glad to see the guy who failed the centrifuge get another chance and pass.


----------



## volition (3 Mar 2008)

Totally agree! ;D


----------



## Haletown (3 Mar 2008)

and didn't they say he finished top of his class ??

Good on him.


----------



## volition (4 Mar 2008)

Yup. He did!! His flying was pretty good during the show, it was just the centrifuge test for him! Everyone has their own weakness.


----------



## catalyst (4 Mar 2008)

Does anyone know what are the significance of the names painted below the canopy are?


----------



## aesop081 (4 Mar 2008)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> Does anyone know what are the significance of the names painted below the canopy are?



Pilot's name and crew chief's name


----------



## benny88 (4 Mar 2008)

Guys, I'm in withdrawal.


----------



## SupersonicMax (4 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Guys, I'm in withdrawal.



And why is that???


----------



## benny88 (4 Mar 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> And why is that???



 First Tuesday in a while with no Jetstream Max!


----------



## SupersonicMax (4 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> First Tuesday in a while with no Jetstream Max!



Gotcha


----------



## aesop081 (4 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> First Tuesday in a while with no Jetstream Max!



You could always watch the show all over again online if the withdrawl pains are that bad.


----------



## Meridian (5 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Pilot's name and crew chief's name



From what I gathered during the show, the students were using "borrowed' aircraft right?  It seemed like a lot of the instructors names were written on the -188s as they would cut out with the student in the front seat....  makes sense I suppose given our limited numbers.

Do all pilots get "their own' or?  I've always wondered about that...  

Also.. the crew chief thing - is this a Canadian-only tradition, or does the US do it too, just not in the movies?


----------



## aesop081 (5 Mar 2008)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Also.. the crew chief thing - is this a Canadian-only tradition,



No. The USAF and USN do it as well. 



			
				Meridian said:
			
		

> From what I gathered during the show, the students were using "borrowed' aircraft right?



They were using 410 Sqn's aircraft.



> It seemed like a lot of the instructors names were written on the -188s as they would cut out with the student in the front seat....  makes sense I suppose given our limited numbers.



As far as i know, 410 is an OTU. Therefore the IPs are also line pilots and their names go on the jets just like any other fighter Sqn.



> Do all pilots get "their own' or?  I've always wondered about that...



I dont know if they all do. Irregardless, you just end up flying whatever is available.


----------



## Celticgirl (5 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You could always watch the show all over again online if the withdrawl pains are that bad.



It wasn't too hard to find: http://www.discoverychannel.ca/jetstream/

I only caught the very last episode, so I'd love to see the rest of it. Hopefully, there are full episodes on this site (unlike Basic Up, which I could only find short segments of online ). I'll check the above site out more tomorrow when I have time.


----------



## aesop081 (5 Mar 2008)

Full episodes.


----------



## benny88 (5 Mar 2008)

Yep, full episodes right here http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/jetstream/


----------



## Celticgirl (5 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Full episodes.



Excellent. Now, I will be a total geek and go join the Facebook group for Jetstream.  ;D


----------



## Celticgirl (5 Mar 2008)

I'm only able to find the final episode "Bomb's Away" on the Discovery site. Is it possible to see _all _ of the episodes or just that one? (Feel free to guide me in the right direction with a link, if you have one.  )


----------



## Strike (5 Mar 2008)

Ask at the Jetstream Facebook page.  One of the producers runs it and she should be able to help you out.


----------



## Celticgirl (5 Mar 2008)

For those who are interested, there is apparently going to be a Jestream "marathon" - four nights consecutively - starting March 10th on the Discovery Channel. I suppose I can wait until then.


----------



## Loachman (5 Mar 2008)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Do all pilots get "their own' or?  I've always wondered about that...
> 
> Also.. the crew chief thing - is this a Canadian-only tradition, or does the US do it too, just not in the movies?



Neither practice is used in Tac Hel.


----------



## benny88 (5 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I'm only able to find the final episode "Bomb's Away" on the Discovery site. Is it possible to see _all _ of the episodes or just that one? (Feel free to guide me in the right direction with a link, if you have one.  )




CG,

   If you follow my link, you'll go to the Discovery player, it defaults to "Bombs Away" because that is the most recent episode, but use the menu @ the bottom of the page, and you can watch all episodes.


----------



## Celticgirl (5 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> CG,
> 
> If you follow my link, you'll go to the Discovery player, it defaults to "Bombs Away" because that is the most recent episode, but use the menu @ the bottom of the page, and you can watch all episodes.



Ahhh, thank you, Benny! I found it!  

I was going to do my taxes today, but...oh well. There's still time.  ^-^


----------



## Meridian (5 Mar 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Neither practice is used in Tac Hel.



Is this because the aircraft are considered "shared" vice some other consideration for fast air?


----------



## Loachman (5 Mar 2008)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Is this because the aircraft are considered "shared" vice some other consideration for fast air?



Our egos don't need constant stroking.


----------



## Loachman (5 Mar 2008)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Is this because the aircraft are considered "shared" vice some other consideration for fast air?



That and doctrinal manning for operations used to be 2.5 crews/hel (I don't know if we still hold to that, or any doctrine for that matter - not that our doctrine ever really bore any ressemblance to reality), which included all aircrew in the Squadron including CO, DCO, Ops staff etcetera. The machines can operate around the clock, but crew cannot so day and night shifts are required. Guys also have to plan missions and fill LO slots and such while others are out flying missions that they planned previously. Aircraft are often configured differently for different missions as well. Machines are also juggled to keep a stagger for major inspections, which are based upon flying time - there will be "push" and "hold" aircraft.


----------



## Zoomie (5 Mar 2008)

Guys,

The name under the canopy is just tradition - 9 times out of 10 the guy flying the Hornet has his name on another bird.

Like Loach said - the rest of the airforce doesn't follow this tradition as it really isn't required - it's just something "they" do...


----------



## stegner (5 Mar 2008)

Is it wrong of me to ponder if Riel is single?


----------



## medicineman (5 Mar 2008)

:rofl:

I'm thinking if that's one of the more reasonable questions asked here in a bit.

MM


----------



## benny88 (5 Mar 2008)

You guys have weird taste, I don't think she's good looking. Unless she's here....uuuuh..Ma'am.


----------



## stegner (5 Mar 2008)

I think I began to really fancy her after the centrifuge.


----------



## medicineman (5 Mar 2008)

It took you that long did it?


----------



## stegner (5 Mar 2008)

I don't know what took me so long


----------



## Meridian (5 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> You guys have weird taste, I don't think she's good looking. Unless she's here....uuuuh..Ma'am.



Me either really.  Does this work along with the "military rating system" and I just don't get it as a civy?


----------



## Astrodog (5 Mar 2008)

Garrison goggles.


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## benny88 (5 Mar 2008)

Astrodog said:
			
		

> Garrison goggles.




 Hahaha I've heard "Mega goggles" at St-Jean but thought it was just specific to my platoon. Hilarious.


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## medicineman (5 Mar 2008)

I've seen more than a few of my friends with the MegaGoggles on - very very scary.

But me thinks we should digress to our would be stalker Stegner  ...

MM


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## Celticgirl (5 Mar 2008)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I've seen more than a few of my friends with the MegaGoggles on - very very scary.



What does this mean? Female recruits are ugly and male recruits are desperate?  Whatever happened to "no fraternization"?


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## benny88 (6 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> What does this mean? Female recruits are ugly and male recruits are desperate?  Whatever happened to "no fraternization"?




   4 weeks CB makes both male AND female desperate. And "No fraternization" ain't "No fantisization"


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## medicineman (6 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> What does this mean? Female recruits are ugly and male recruits are desperate?  Whatever happened to "no fraternization"?



Have no fear, it went/goes in both directions - some nights I'd be howling at who hooked up with who.  As for the no frat rule, well, some people actually got caught, some didn't, and others got smart and got a room off base  .

MM


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## skosh123 (6 Mar 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Our egos don't need constant stroking.



Atta boy bottom third


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## tabernac (6 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> You guys have weird taste, I don't think she's good looking. Unless she's here....uuuuh..Ma'am.



Agreed, weird taste. I've seen better looking women wearing black and white.  ;D


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## benny88 (6 Mar 2008)

skosh123 said:
			
		

> Atta boy bottom third



  And the new guy with the flame! Be careful man.


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## Celticgirl (6 Mar 2008)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Have no fear, it went/goes in both directions - some nights I'd be howling at who hooked up with who.  As for the no frat rule, well, some people actually got caught, some didn't, and others got smart and got a room off base  .
> 
> MM



If they were really "smart", they wouldn't be fraternizing on a course.


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## medicineman (6 Mar 2008)

I jsut said they were smart about how they were going about things, not what they were doing.  And you're right, but human nature and biology are odd things.

MM


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## Celticgirl (6 Mar 2008)

medicineman said:
			
		

> human nature and biology are odd things



Indeed.  8)


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Mar 2008)

skosh123 said:
			
		

> Atta boy bottom third



Don't worry, Loachman has been around so long he is at the top of everything just by attrition.


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## Loachman (6 Mar 2008)

skosh123 said:
			
		

> Atta boy bottom third



Excellent first post, Empty Profile Boy. What do you fly?

You've made a good first impression.


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## stegner (6 Mar 2008)

In my defence, I think I am attracted to idea of Riel _as a women fighter pilot _.  In this instance I think I am attracted to traits that are not purely aesthetic, not to say she is ugly or anything (she is average), but rather that her intelligence, drive, fitness and perseverance appeals to me.  Given this, I think that one could do a lot worse than her.


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## Zoomie (6 Mar 2008)

skosh123 said:
			
		

> Atta boy bottom third



LOL - quite the bold statement. 

A$$hats like this make me so happy that I escaped F.A.G.'s clutches unscathed.  The Hornet community is desperate for warm bodies right now - everyone who wants to be an operational member of the Air Force is looking to where it is at - Helicopters and Multi.


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## Good2Golf (6 Mar 2008)

Well, somebody's gotta fly in the bottom third of the atmosphere!  8)


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## Loachman (6 Mar 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Well, somebody's gotta fly in the bottom third of the atmosphere!  8)



Atmosphere? Anything over the bottom third of tree height is too high.


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## Good2Golf (6 Mar 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Atmosphere? Anything over the bottom third of tree height is too high.



True...100kts at 5' is way more fun than 540 at 30,000'!

I still enjoyed seeing things progress through the course, though...gotta love a woman that can laugh at wearing those sexy depends! 

G2G


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## Celticgirl (7 Mar 2008)

stegner said:
			
		

> In my defence, I think I am attracted to idea of Riel _as a women fighter pilot _.



You don't need to defend what or whom you find attractive.


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