# Drill with Rubber C7 at LHQ.



## Bergeron 971 (2 Feb 2007)

Well the title sums it up I guess. Rubber C7s, or blue guns used on parade for the flag party. 
thoughts comments?
Thanks,


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## GGHG_Cadet (2 Feb 2007)

There is no point seeing as cadets are not allowed to do C7 drill.


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## Franko (2 Feb 2007)

IIRC CATOs and the Cadet directives do not allow for the use of any service or rubber weapon (C7 or C8)for drill what so ever on LHQ events.

Too "aggressive".         :

Regards


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## Bergeron 971 (2 Feb 2007)

: Recce tell me about it...

Thread carry on. Lets get our opinions out on the board


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## D. Nicholson (2 Feb 2007)

... there's a few CIC Officers out there with convictions for letting it happen, too!


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## Michael OLeary (2 Feb 2007)

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49943/post-442222.html#msg442222

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25557/post-152549.html#msg152549

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search


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## c.jacob (2 Feb 2007)

GGHG_Cadet said:
			
		

> There is no point seeing as cadets are not allowed to do C7 drill.



  Is that a new rule?


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## ryanmann356 (3 Feb 2007)

no cadets havent been allowed to use C7s for drill forever.  If you wanna play with the rifles while doing drill join the PRes


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## c.jacob (3 Feb 2007)

I'm not sure what the rules are now but when I did D&C we used C7's which included for the sunset ceremony. I also remember the D&C company using them the years before us as well.  So this rule has not always been in effect.


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## medaid (3 Feb 2007)

That's interesting, because back when I was a cadet, an AIR cadet, I wanted to have a C-7 to drill with too! I thought it would be extremely cool and hardcore to do drill with that, and how sharp my flag party would look. Now that I've got some experience in life, and what little experience I have with the Forces, and Cadets, I realised this.

1) It takes proper training and respect to utilize a weapon for any purpose.

2) It is never about the Look Cool Factor, but about how you can do your job the best way you can with the things you have.

3) It's not what you're using, it is how you're using it. 

Those points being said. I think that cadets should never be allowed to use C-7s as a drill purpose rifle, or anything that remotely resembles a current service weapon. I think the .303s currently employed as drill rifles are extremely sharp, and with proper care and maintenance, these weapons can reflect, pride, morale and honour of the unit that it's being employed in. The reason I say cadets should not be allowed to use a C-7 is two fold. One, there are many individuals out there whose sole purpose in life is to look cool. They do not realize in the importance of respect and responsibility which comes with learning and employing a weapon. I can just see now some cadet point that weapon at one each other, not to mention civies. Two, there will NEVER be a need for Cadets to be armed with, train with, or even remotely necessary for them to TOUCH a C-7 or any OTHER service weapon as part of their training/orientation/part of the program.  Like I've stated, I once looked upon the C-7 as the ultimate thing to have for ones flag party/drill team/ what ever. Now, I think it's the ultimate tool for a soldier in the course of his or her duties. Yes, that is right. A SOLDIER. not a Cadet. 

Lastly if you're joining the CF for the pure point of playing with weapons. Well... good luck, I don't think you'll like what you get yourself into.

Just my 0.02 Rupees


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## Lerch (3 Feb 2007)

What's wrong the the No4's? Seriously!

Sorry, but tossing a perfectly good (and sexy) weapon aside because it doesn't 'float your boat' is a naff idea, especially when they're using rubber rifles that go against CATO's in every way..


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## q_1966 (3 Feb 2007)

Jacob said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what the rules are now but when I did D&C we used C7's which included for the sunset ceremony. I also remember the D&C company using them the years before us as well.  So this rule has not always been in effect.



Wasn't that the old FNC1? 

(I was told that they stopped using the FN for the Feu de Joie, because the blank round, once fired flew out the side of the weapon and hit a person in the face causing severe burns, which is believeable considering how close the person next to you is in ranks, with the .303 you don't have the same problem, as the spent round tends to drop (or not fly very far) this is only a story I was told.


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## c.jacob (3 Feb 2007)

Brazil_66 said:
			
		

> Wasn't that the old FNC1?
> 
> (I was told that they stopped using the FN for the Feu de Joie, because the blank round, once fired flew out the side of the weapon and hit a person in the face causing severe burns, which is believeable considering how close the person next to you is in ranks, with the .303 you don't have the same problem, as the spent round tends to drop (or not fly very far) this is only a story I was told.



   It wasn't the FNC1 that I used.  I'm not old enough to have been around when they were being used.  We had the C7.  I know that they're usuing .303's now.  I just didn't realize that it was because that cadets are not longer allowed to use C7's for drill.  Now I know.


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## Bergeron 971 (3 Feb 2007)

In 96, we used rubber C7's for drill at Valcartier and one airborne cadet had pointed it at a Griffon flying by, he got my butt in the chest and I took away his rifle, he was RTU'd pretty fast. 
As for weapons or rubber weapons, I as an officer would NEVER allow just any cadet to handle them. I am reasonable for the flag party at my corps and they are the best 7 from the ranks, before they handled even the flags they had to learn about them, history, significance, parts, same goes for the Lee Enfield, sabre, and soon the C7.
They must to pass tests which i draw up, and must at all time show example. 
Thing is, I believe rubber C7's are safer then Lee Enfields, and are also easier to come by.
I am VERY traditionalist, I wish I could get my hands on some .303's but we can only have them the day of our ceremonial, and I rather not take them as my flag party will not have had enough training with that weapon to properly represent the corps and the movement as a whole.


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## Burrows (3 Feb 2007)

Bergeron 971 said:
			
		

> In 96, we used rubber C7's for drill at Valcartier and one airborne cadet had pointed it at a Griffon flying by, he got my butt in the chest and I took away his rifle, he was RTU'd pretty fast.



I'm curious as to why you felt violence was an appropriate solution.  Hitting your subordinates is never acceptable, especially since there was no real danger to anyone.  Yes, a rubber weapon can look like a real one, but there is no excuse for hitting a cadet.


> As for weapons or rubber weapons, I as an officer would NEVER allow just any cadet to handle them. I am reasonable for the flag party at my corps and they are the best 7 from the ranks, before they handled even the flags they had to learn about them, history, significance, parts, same goes for the Lee Enfield, sabre, and soon the C7.



There is no harm in allowing cadets the opportunity to experience weapons.  An air rifle can injure someone more than a big hunk of rubber and they haven't taken away those.  Also, why teach them about the C7 when use of it isn't permitted?  Why not just be happy with the Enfield?
They must to pass tests which i draw up, and must at all time show example. 
Thing is, I believe rubber C7's are safer then Lee Enfields, and are also easier to come by.



> I am VERY traditionalist, I wish I could get my hands on some .303's but we can only have them the day of our ceremonial, and I rather not take them as my flag party will not have had enough training with that weapon to properly represent the corps and the movement as a whole.


Solution: Investigate procurement of said ceremonial rifles through a sponsor or fundraising initiative.  It took awhile, but my corps found a few that are used for drill.

Not trying to pick on you here Bergeron, but I'm not too impressed with the first quote, and confused as to the reasoning behind the second.


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## Bergeron 971 (4 Feb 2007)

first I was a kid on course with him, and I thought it a danger to point assault rifles at military aircraft on a base at the time, I also if the pilot would have seen him do so, the whole camp would have most likely lost the c7's. he wasn't under but at the same level. I laugh about it now that its 6 years ago. Things kids do in a split on the moment.

And as to why I think they should earn by learning about the tools used. Otherwise, any Joe blow could join the flag party. The flag party represents the best our corps has. I think they need to earn the right to carry and use the tools offered. I also need to learn the Lee Enfield, Saber, c7, flag, flag carrier. Every member of the flag party also learns the job of the other person. 

They have to have Gold PT, Emergency Fri st aid and we work together until they obtain cross rifle and crown. We have one of the strongest shooting teams in Canada.

What I do is choose 2 red stars as gunner replacement and possible future full time gunners, 2 silver stars as full time gunners with future as flag carriers, 2 gold as flag carriers with possibilities of flag party commander. with one NSCE as commander. I choose within the flag party for flags and commander, as anyone else can have a chance to be gunners.


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## Thompson_JM (20 Feb 2007)

You have alot of reasons as to why you want to use C7's but I still think that deep down its a LCF thing...

You still havent given any reason why the C7 would be better then the Lee Enfield..... unless this was it 





> And as to why I think they should earn by learning about the tools used. Otherwise, any Joe blow could join the flag party. The flag party represents the best our corps has. I think they need to earn the right to carry and use the tools offered. I also need to learn the Lee Enfield, Saber, c7, flag, flag carrier. Every member of the flag party also learns the job of the other person.



the part that got my eye was 





> And as to why I think they should earn by learning about the tools used. Otherwise, any Joe blow could join the flag party.



if youre saying that they should use the C7 because they are elite and because any "joe blow" can use an enfield then I take offence to that. the enfield has been used by canadian soldiers for decades and still remains an excellent bolt action military rifle with a very very deep rich military tradition behind it. the cadets should be proud that they have the honour of carrying the same rifle that many a brave canadian soldier carried fighting against facism accross europe, or freedom in asia.  to belittle the .303 in my opinion is to belittle the soldiers who carried it.  

I truly hope that was not the intent of your statement however. 

to sum up, you have still not shown to me, any reason why the cadets can not use the .303 over the C7.  

Regards,
   Tommy


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## Justacivvy (20 Feb 2007)

Tommy said:
			
		

> the part that got my eye was
> if youre saying that they should use the C7 because they are elite and because any "joe blow" can use an enfield then I take offence to that. the enfield has been used by canadian soldiers for decades and still remains an excellent bolt action military rifle with a very very deep rich military tradition behind it. the cadets should be proud that they have the honour of carrying the same rifle that many a brave canadian soldier carried fighting against facism accross europe, or freedom in asia.  to belittle the .303 in my opinion is to belittle the soldiers who carried it.



+1


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## Bergeron 971 (20 Feb 2007)

I thought I explained my self, I love the lee enfield. and would use it before the C7 anyday. I'm VERY traditionalist, however, Lee Enfields are getting harder and harder to find.
I have contacts with rubber C7's, I would like to have rifles every week on the flag party, not only 3 hours before annual parade for practice cause the navy cadets lent us 3.
I never put down the lee enfield. And I pick those who desurve it to be on flag party. Those who stand out and give the effort to be the best that they can be. I will not pick someone that's slacked off since he/she joined to be a member of the flag party.


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## Sloaner (20 Feb 2007)

You should be able to request the rifles from your detachment/support unit for permanent or temporary loan.  I recognize that you are in Eastern Region and perhaps the situation is different there, but I've never had a problem getting rifles when requested through the detachments here in Central.  IF that avenue runs dry, you may look to your Affiliated unit for some support in accessing the the Lee Enfields, I am aware of some units that have been able to get former members to donate their old de-activated service rifles to the cadet program for use by their cadet company once everything is checked out by the weapons techs.  You may also want to speak to the local legions about same as several have donated rifles in the past.  There are several diferent ways to sort this out without having to jump to using a rubber replica of the current service rifle.

As a last resort, you can also try and partner with another Army unit in the area who may be able to support your needs on a more regular basis.  I'm across the river in Ottawa and perhaps we can work something out, or discuss various other options available to you.


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## Bergeron 971 (20 Feb 2007)

I've thought of searching at local legions and asking our Affiliated unit. Also thought about the GGFG CC. As I'm aware that they have lots of Lee Enfields.
Sloaner.... That name rings a bell...


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## p_imbeault (20 Feb 2007)

I love the Lee Enfields. Just curious is it really easier to get ahold of a C7 then it is a Replica/Deactivated Lee Enfield.


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## Nfld Sapper (20 Feb 2007)

I really doubt that about the C-7's and I can't believe that this thread is still going on.


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## c.jacob (20 Feb 2007)

The one advantage I can think of using a C-7 for drill is that it can be loud when you hit the rifle when doing a movement like present arms.  If it's done properly sounds quite sharp.  But a rubber rifle wouldn't have the same effect.


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## Bergeron 971 (20 Feb 2007)

Yes in my region of Canada its easier to get a lbs of pot, but try to find rifles??? Not gonna happen. If you find out of country you can't import. I would love to have some deact Lee Enfields.


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## rwgill (21 Feb 2007)

Bergeron 971 said:
			
		

> Yes in my region of Canada its easier to get a lbs of pot, but try to find rifles??? Not gonna happen. If you find out of country you can't import. I would love to have some deact Lee Enfields.



It is my understanding that no cadets are permitted to do any sort of rifle or sword drill (including cutlass drill) in Eastern Region (Quebec).

I can't find the memo at the moment to clarify, but when I do, I will post it.


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## Sloaner (21 Feb 2007)

If you're right Mr. Gill, I'm glad I'm on the happy side of the Ottawa river in Central.


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## Bergeron 971 (21 Feb 2007)

2920 Gatineau uses rifles on a weekly basis Modified Lee enfields I believe, 1573 Buckingham as well has rifles. We borrow our rifles from one of these corps or the sea cadets on annual inspections.
I would like to have our own as Gatineau and Buckingham among many others still use them, Note, nothing is said during suprise inspections or annual review from visiting detachment officials. 

2920 Gatineau Jan 2007
http://lh5.google.com/image/lightshack/RbxF8UmzDMI/AAAAAAAABoc/1BdkM_h6Ru8/CCDT2007-051.jpg?imgmax=640

Buckingham's picture site isn't working at the moment.


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## mysteriousmind (21 Feb 2007)

For the eastern detachement near Valacartier, it is impossible to have the rubber c7 for the unit during winter.

At my Unite, were I use to serve, we have 3 dummy leeenfeild, and we have used them on and on and on since I was enroled at this unit in 1998...they are dummies. they are a representation of the real weapon. 

Talk to you detachement officer or to the NCO that is reponsible for the detachement QM. you could be suprised.


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## rwgill (21 Feb 2007)

Sloaner said:
			
		

> If you're right Mr. Gill, I'm glad I'm on the happy side of the Ottawa river in Central.


I am still trying to find it. :rage:  I think it came out as a memo, but I am still looking.

Did find something for Bergeron............OCRE 1116, Para 12 d.
http://www.regions.cadets.forces.gc.ca/est/support/biblio/doc/ocre/1116.pdf

It appears that in Eastern Region, only the COOEY C2B1 is authorized for drill purposes, NOTHING else[Edit: for Army Cadets, Sea Cadets may use .303, Air Cadets no rifle drill].  Upon reviewing the CATOs, it appears that neither a Cadet Unit nor a CSTC are authorized to hold rubber C7s.

I guess this kills any hopes for you.


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## medaid (21 Feb 2007)

I dont know... maybe its just me. But C-7 arethe service weapons of the Forces, and until something changes, the cadets should stick to their drill purpose rifles, .303 Enfields. I have high regards for that weapon, as I've used it many many times when I was a cadet and the Flag Party Commander. Isnt there some way to quell this cry for cadets and C-7s once and for all?


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## Bergeron 971 (21 Feb 2007)

I know that in 96 at valcartier I used rubber C7s for rifle drill. But this CATOs was updated 2001.
does anyone know what the "COOEY C2B1" is? 
I believe that 2920 is using modified lee enfields. I'm against modifying the rifle. they added a wooden pistol grip to the rifle.

As well, I'm looking into organizing a weekend for silver stars and up for the C7. Learn the rifle and perhaps fire it at Cannaught Ranges.
Or worse comes to worse, we'll use the simlab.
http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1441A3_b.pdf


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## Bergeron 971 (21 Feb 2007)

They should do like over seas in Britian, have service rifles modified into Semi only and .22 cal. for cadet purpose training.
But then again, we're in a liberal society, and the masses would think we're training soldiers.  

Personally when we had the 303's in cadets I thought it was smart, we learned more about firearms safety. today I would be afraid of having a rifle in my house if my *son was a cadet. I would have to teach them my self about safety. PS. I have no son.

I know that by the time I was a silver star. I wasn't even impressed by weapons, because we used them at cadets. I felt no need to play with them, compaired to friends outside of cadet who played with papa's 3030, today you would have a cdt RSM pee his pants if he touched a lee en field. IMHO


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## IntlBr (21 Feb 2007)

Just to confirm *Bergeron*, you've never served in the military, right?

Who has placed you in charge of making up classes and rules to teach your Cadets?

It seems to me like you're being given too much free-reign as a CI/CV.


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## Bergeron 971 (21 Feb 2007)

I have no idea what you are talking about, where I'm from, you work on a project and present your idea's when they are completed on paper with references, etc.
I do not waste a superiors time with blable of what you would like to do, it wastes the officers time and its not backed with references.
anyone including a parent can organize an activity and bring it up to the training Officer, if he likes the idea he brings it to the CO.
We do not sit around waiting for things to happen leaving the jobs to one or 2 people in the corps. we all suggest and organize things.

I've always worked this way, hey if my idea wasn't taken parts of it may be considered. 

As for the idea for C7 training, it would follow the CATOs, being thought BY affiliated unit members qualified to teach the courses needed and a Proper RSO from our affiliated unit would also be on service according to my project.
see: http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1441A3_b.pdf

Now where is it that you think I have free rain?


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## IntlBr (21 Feb 2007)

Bergeron 971 said:
			
		

> I have no idea what you are talking about, where I'm from, you work on a project and present your idea's when they are completed on paper with references, etc.
> I do not waste a superiors time with blable of what you would like to do, it wastes the officers time and its not backed with references.
> anyone including a parent can organize an activity and bring it up to the training Officer, if he likes the idea he brings it to the CO.
> We do not sit around waiting for things to happen leaving the jobs to one or 2 people in the corps. we all suggest and organize things.



This all just seems like fantasy-land stuff to me.  You've been given the required information - get your CO to request for permanent T.I. Lee-Enfield No.4 rifles from your detachment.  They'll help you out.




			
				Bergeron 971 said:
			
		

> As for the idea for C7 training, it would follow the CATOs, being thought BY affiliated unit members qualified to teach the courses needed and a Proper RSO from our affiliated unit would also be on service according to my project.
> see: http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1441A3_b.pdf



The only problem is, I don't think you have the appropriate training or base-knowledge to attempt to plan this.  If your plan is to follow the CATOs, then you should be stopped by the CATO which details that Cadets are not permitted to drill with the C7 rfile.  Plan ended there.

Do you have AFU members volunteering at the moment with your Cadet unit?  I doubt they're going to teach the Cadets C7 drill when it's not permissible in the first place.  Even then, would you want to be the one who's bright idea it was that had detachment dump all over your RegF/PRes volunteers?

You said you were going to teach them everything they needed to know about the weapons, flags, flag belts, etc. etc.  Are you qualified for this?

And hold the phone - RSO?  Why do you need an RSO?  I thought these were replica weapons we were discussing - and where do you think the AFU is going to get the money to send all these people over to your CC - just to pursue your idea of an 'elite' flag party?

Why are you so intent on having crack troops?  Why not work towards these high standards with all of your Cadets instead of the "seven" you've chosen for the flag party (although even if you were using the max. number of flags [2] you'd only need five people in the flag party).



			
				Bergeron 971 said:
			
		

> Now where is it that you think I have free rain?



It seems as if you've got either:  ridiculous amounts of free-reign as a CI/CV - or all of this is make-believe, and your unit's CO has no idea you're even remotely trying to pursue all of these avenues.

As was said before:

Get the unit's Officers to contact detachment about securing some Lee-Enfield No.4 rifles for the unit.


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## mysteriousmind (21 Feb 2007)

one thing to note the double standard in cadet...


during summer training, there are course with ruber c7 drill starting with the second camp (cours de chef) a cadet can attend....but you have no permission to do it at local unit

second one...during summer training, at cheif instructor cam (cours de chef instructeur), you could a couple of years ago have course on c7 and shoot c7.


double standard again....well...those are reason I stop wanted to be CIC....and well...I read this thread with a large smile...it has not change, neither it will...


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## rwgill (21 Feb 2007)

I like you Bergeron, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Mods locked this one up, nor would I disagree with them.

This has been beaten to death.  There is only one rifle permitted, in all of Canada, for rifle drill.  Only one.

If you feel that this should be changed, please follow the Chain of Command.  Speak with your CO.  If the CO agrees, +1, then continue to the Det and so on.  Until the CATOs and various Regional Orders are changed, you are SOL.

Cheers,


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## THEARMYGUY (21 Feb 2007)

I agree with you Mr. Gill.  This one is old and tired and needs to be put to bed.  1 Cadet rifle for use at home corps.  No room for questioning the CATO as it currently stands.  DEAD HORSE.

Cheers!!!     

the army guy    :warstory:


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## Burrows (22 Feb 2007)

Unlocked at the request of a user who has something to add.


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## THEARMYGUY (22 Feb 2007)

Thanks Kyle.

Bergeron and I were in contact with one another and decided the thread ended on a sour note.  I wanted to make reparations.  I agree that we need not continue to beat the Cadets and C7 thing any longer.  The point Bergeron was attempting to make was that all senior cadets should get the familiarization with the C7 and even perhaps the chance to fire it.  Bergeron stated that AU staff is usually avail to the unit and are willing to provide instruction for the familiarization to seniors.  He did mention earlier in the post that drill with the C7 replica was an idea that could be supported and that part of the thread became misconstrued into using the C7 service rifle as a parade rifle.  I hope I got it all.  Bergeron, please feel free to add or correct if I missed anything.

Cheers.    

the army guy    :warstory:


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## 1feral1 (22 Feb 2007)

Tommy said:
			
		

> the cadets should be proud that they have the honour of carrying the same rifle that many a brave canadian soldier carried fighting against facism accross europe, or freedom in asia.  to belittle the .303 in my opinion is to belittle the soldiers who carried it.



+1 Tommy!

Tommy thats one good post, and to see it coming from a younger Canadian, I find it quite refreshing to see such things.

Soldier on.

Regards,

Wes


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## Thompson_JM (22 Feb 2007)

Wesley (Over There) said:
			
		

> +1 Tommy!
> 
> Tommy thats one good post, and to see it coming from a younger Canadian, I find it quite refreshing to see such things.
> 
> ...



Thanks Wes,

I'm just trying to carry on the tradition they started..
Looking forward to visiting your homeland down under on HLTA! 

Its a shame youre still over in Iraq, or I'd buy you a beer  

Cheers,
      Tommy


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## 1feral1 (22 Feb 2007)

Tommy, I am getting short, real short, but not as short as I'd like (soon though - ha). The clock counts down and every second I/we are one step closer to leaving this mess.

Are you going to be in the Brisbane area at all? If so, what month?

If you are, and I am home (which I should be), a BBQ at my place. Lots of XXXX Gold on standby, pool and some well deserved RnR.

Wherever you are mate, stay focused - always.

Cold beers,

Wes


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## THEARMYGUY (22 Feb 2007)

Wes,

You make a great point about Tommy's post.  It is nice to see that kind of recognition from the younger generation.  Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.  Thanks for your efforts in Iraq.  You and all of the other soldiers deployed are doing a good thing and I support you as often and as vocally as I can.  

Soldier on.

Cheers!!!    

the army guy    :warstory:


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## rwgill (22 Feb 2007)

Just to clear up an earlier statement which I made WRT rifle drill in Eastern Region



			
				Eastern Region Memo dating to May 2006 said:
			
		

> Use of Firearms, Bayonets and Cutlasses within RCSU (Eastern) Cadet Units
> 
> With year-end reviews fast approaching, I wish to reiterate the Eastern Region's position regarding the bearing of weapons, bayonets and cutlasses by cadets on parade:
> 
> ...



Please note that Eastern Region (Cadets) has its own version of the Manual of Drill and Ceremonial.  Basically the 201, but specific to cadets.

Currently, in Bergeron's case, he may quite have adequate AU support, but that is not the case for all Cadet Units across Canada.  

C7 rifle drill was taught to cadets in Valcartier in the 90's but it is no longer the 90's........................check your calendars.

Not every unit in Canada has an adequate weapons' lock up.  Not sure what the rules are no WRT rubber C7s.  When I was a Pl Comd in Valcartier (in the 90's) they were locked up like any other rifle, in the weapons lock up.  In a locked weapons' rack, a double locked room.

The Cadet Training Programme is designed with more or less, the lowest common denominator in mind.  Some units parade in schools, but QM is in an officer's home basement.  Not the safest place to store rifle.

Honestly, I would stick with the Lee Enfield.  After close to 100 years, it still does its job quite effectively and it is more realistic than a hunk of rubber.  It follows tradition which always looks cool!


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## mysteriousmind (22 Feb 2007)

I agree with rwgill....

it would not be fair that some units even if directly in a armoury could access c7 or rubber c7 and that cadet unit 3km away could not.

let get a standard. rules are rules...they have been putted on for a reason. we have to live with it for obvious reason.


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## aesop081 (22 Feb 2007)

Wow...another 4 pages on this........

M777 for artillery cadets i say

are we done yet ?


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## medaid (22 Feb 2007)

I thought we had closed this once and for all.

Seriously, for the last time, .303 Enfields are excellent drill purpose weapons for Cadets, it carries the long traditions of the CF, and it carries the traditions of every unit that ever used it. Cadets, be content with it.

C-7s once again is a CF weapon. That is just it, it is a weapon of the forces, it is not a drill purpose weapon, and it is not by any definition something Cadets should be allowed access to on a regular basis. I'm sorry to say this but no matter what CIC officers may think, you are NOT qualified to supervise cadets with a service weapon. That being said, there are those in the CIC with PRes or Reg F experience, but it goes back to the point that the ones who would be handling these weapons are CADETS. If they so wish to carry a C-7, I say fill your boots. But at the age of 16 with parental consent join the PRes, and 17 with parental consent join the Regs. Don't push this anymore then it has already been done. 

Discussed and done. Please move on.


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## rwgill (22 Feb 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Wow...another 4 pages on this........
> 
> M777 for artillery cadets i say
> 
> are we done yet ?


Actually it is permitted...................


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## aesop081 (22 Feb 2007)

Confirmation that this is done.........

army.ca staff


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