# Making my application more attractive to recruiters



## Mike92 (19 Oct 2012)

Hey everyone,

As most of you know, Infantry is closed/not hiring at the moment  :crybaby:  :rage: and this is the trade I am most interested in. I was told by a recruiter that at the beginning of the new fiscal year (April 1) the new information as to how many new recruits they need will be sent to them.

He also said that because there aren't many openings for Infantry and pretty much all combat trades, the recruiting process is very competitive. He mentioned I should think about post-secondary education to make my application more appealing and to increase my chances of being selected. He said, for instance,  I could get my Heavy Equipment Operator certificate because it relates to what Combat Engineers do. It didn't make sense to me to learn something I would be taught in the Forces anyway. ???

Has anyone else been told this by a recruiter? What sort of civilian courses could I take that would help me get selected for Infantry?

Thanks for reading.

With respect,

Mike92


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## PrettyMaggie63 (19 Oct 2012)

I can't help you out with any  courses geared specifically to Infantry, but basically taking (and being successful at) any course will show initiative and a desire for "life long learning", which in turn, will reflect well on any application. Continuing education will always be a positive mark, no matter which path you chose.


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## MusclesGlasses (19 Oct 2012)

Having any kind of post secondary training is always a positive, both for the CF and the public/private sector workforces. It proves that you are both committed and trainable, regardless of whether the degree/diploma/certificate is related to the job you are applying for our not. 

If I was in the position where I had to choose between two candidates for a job opening, one straight out of high school and one with high school plus a certificate in nose picking, I'd lean toward choosing the one with the certificate as it shows they had the conviction to start and finish something.

Seriously though, having training in something that would be related to the position/trade you are applying to shows that you understand the requirements of the position, and have been 'certified' as being able to perform said job. It is likely that the recruiter suggested the Heavy Equipment Operator certificate as either an example or a second option he/she thinks you might consider.

As far as courses that might help with making your application more attractive for an Infantry position, anything related to being a Security Guard or Police Officer would be my guess.

Hope this helps and good luck to you.

Cheers


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## Allgunzblazing (19 Oct 2012)

If a recruiter has told you a plan of action to make yourself more competitive, then why not just stick to that advice without second guessing it?


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## shogun506 (20 Oct 2012)

Why don't you just apply for combat engineer if all you want is a combat trade? I was in CFRC Toronto a couple weeks ago and they were just setting up some guy with his CFAT for that trade, I'm guessing (I don't know for sure it's not my interest) that it's still taking applications.


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## kevincanada (20 Oct 2012)

Mike92 said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> As most of you know, Infantry is closed/not hiring at the moment  :crybaby:  :rage: and this is the trade I am most interested in. I was told by a recruiter that at the beginning of the new fiscal year (April 1) the new information as to how many new recruits they need will be sent to them.
> 
> ...



If you read the forces website you will see that there is no civilian equivalent.  I believe the wording is "this job is uniquely military"   Infantry is actually the easiest trade to get into from a educational point of view everyone who passes the CFAT qualifies, it is also likely one of the most sought after hence the most difficult to get into.  It's all about numbers.  People applying versus jobs available.

If you do well on your CFAT you will have more choices come available.  As the people who did worse than you have limited occupations to choose from.

A quick fix that is well recognized on all job applications that helps put you ahead of the crowd is some real volunteer experience.  I don't mean a cancer walk and donating ten bucks.  But actually getting dirty and servicing up meals and handing out clothes to people who live on the street through a local church or soup kitchen.   They'll want a police background check ($20 to $30 bucks) make sure you don't have a criminal record and your good to go. You don't have to do to do it all the time, I haven't volunteered in over a year now myself.  Point being is you did it, and you showed the effort.  Soup kitchen shows you recognize the seriousness of poverty in Canada, collecting money for cancer research no so much so, although it still nice and all.

Don't limit yourself to just infinity, you maybe in for a disappointment. #1 it's now 20 years later and you have no civilian job skills and are looking to discharge from the military.  I'm a general contractor in housing market.  infantry does not help my business, but a construction tech in the army would be attractive.

#2 the recession that has been dragging on and on.  Job numbers are down, and likely will remain down until Canada become more profitable again, this could be next year, it could be a few years, profits are tight for our Federal Government, Ergo they have to limit Military spending right now until the economy rebounds.  This puts more pressure on infantry job numbers making it that much harder to get into.

i know they have taken a lot of Combat Engineers and ACISS this year, the only army jobs left are the one that works with stock, ACISS and Artillery.  This as of 3 weeks ago.  Artillery and stock only had a few slots left and could be full now.  Meaning only I.T. stuff remains, plus whatever is out there for Air Force and Navy.

Hope this helps


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## Scott (20 Oct 2012)

Let's all remember that the CF does not owe anyone a job and that the jobs out there are going to be, and remain, super competitive. When you think you've done enough there is still more that you can try.

There are guys here, through no fault of their own, who have been waiting YEARS and jumping through numerous hoops. Relax and go get your physical fitness in good order, volunteer, get distance between you and those summary convictions, get yourself out of debt - whatever.


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## Mike92 (20 Oct 2012)

Thanks everyone for the awesome advice. You guys brought up stuff I never really thought of.

I was in the Cadets for 6+ years and I have volunteered with the Salvation Army so I'm hoping that will help me.

Reaper-1, although Combat Engineer, along with Artillery are both interesting, Infantry is my number one choice at the moment. If a spot opens up for another combat trade besides Infantry, such as Combat Engineer then... I'll cross that bridge when I get to it (and maybe blow it up ;D).

In terms of post-secondary education, I have been thinking about a Close Protection course or one of those 'tactical firearms' courses as close protection work is one of the few appealing civilian jobs. Foreign language training is also looking good as there are numerous courses offered at many colleges and universities.

Thanks again for all the replies.

With respect,

Mike92


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## shogun506 (21 Oct 2012)

I get you but what I'm saying is that you're AT that bridge - the combat engineer trade is open right now (or if it isn't, you must have just recently missed it). The website says taking applications and I've seen people being processed at the CFRC. Give them a call and check to make sure. Why wait until April for infantry even when there's no guarantee it will open? Keep doing everything you're doing in terms of looking for post-secondary and bettering yourself but definitely put in an application for combat engineer right now, even if you're just doing it to start your processing. Look at it this way: It will take you several months to get all your stuff processed and if in those months the infantry trade opens up, all you need to say at some point in that process is that you want to interview for that trade as well. The only difference in processing is they need to ask a few extra questions in your interview. The CFAT, medicals, waiting, everything else is the same from the applicant side. If you apply now, you beat the rush when/if the inf. trade finally opens AND if it never does, you have the chance to be an engineer within a few months.



			
				Mike92 said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for the awesome advice. You guys brought up stuff I never really thought of.
> 
> I was in the Cadets for 6+ years and I have volunteered with the Salvation Army so I'm hoping that will help me.
> 
> ...


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## MikeL (21 Oct 2012)

Mike92 said:
			
		

> Infantry is my number one choice at the moment. If a spot opens up for another combat trade besides Infantry, such as Combat Engineer then... I'll cross that bridge when I get to it (and maybe blow it up ;D).



That statement contradicts what you posted earlier,  unless you have changed your mind in the last few months?



			
				Mike92 said:
			
		

> Recruiting Centre/Unit: The Ontario Regiment (Oshawa, Ontario)
> Regular/Reserve: Reserve
> Officer/NCM: NCM
> Trade Choice 1: Crewman
> ...


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## brihard (21 Oct 2012)

Mike92 said:
			
		

> In terms of post-secondary education, I have been thinking about a Close Protection course or one of those 'tactical firearms' courses as close protection work is one of the few appealing civilian jobs.



Irrelevant. you won't get a civilian close protection job without substantial military or police experience. And those on that course will have that experience already- you'll be far behind the curve. Conversely, the close protection role is so specialized as to be a good ways apart from what the combat arms do in the normal course of things. Likewise, a civilian shooting course is likely to drill into you ways of shooting that differ from what we do.

You're trying to buy yourself TactiCool qualifications thinking it'll help you get into the infantry. It really won't. You want to have a more attractive application, learn some French, volunteer, and find opportunities to demonstrate leadership. They don't need to be spectacular or interesting. Go to school, but actual school- 'post secondary education' doesn't include some civvie run gunfighter course. It's college or university.


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## Towards_the_gap (21 Oct 2012)

Reaper-1 said:
			
		

> I get you but what I'm saying is that you're AT that bridge - the combat engineer trade is open right now (or if it isn't, you must have just recently missed it). The website says taking applications and I've seen people being processed at the CFRC. Give them a call and check to make sure. Why wait until April for infantry even when there's no guarantee it will open? Keep doing everything you're doing in terms of looking for post-secondary and bettering yourself but definitely put in an application for combat engineer right now, even if you're just doing it to start your processing. Look at it this way: It will take you several months to get all your stuff processed and if in those months the infantry trade opens up, all you need to say at some point in that process is that you want to interview for that trade as well. The only difference in processing is they need to ask a few extra questions in your interview. The CFAT, medicals, waiting, everything else is the same from the applicant side. If you apply now, you beat the rush when/if the inf. trade finally opens AND if it never does, you have the chance to be an engineer within a few months.




Don't do this. The last thing we need is another person who doesn't want to be an engineer....being an engineer.


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## Mike92 (21 Oct 2012)

Reaper-1, I thought about that for a while but i agree with Towards_the_gap because I wouldn't want to join up unless I was really keen on that trade. The recruiter said that the Combat Engineer trade was closed when I talked to him.

 -Skeletor-, I have cancelled my old application for the Reserves and have resubmitted a new one for the Regular Force after MUCH thought and a lot of research both on this site and others.

Brihard, you're absolutely right, and I've read that one must first start out as conventional security guards/doormen to gain experience and contacts before going CP. The guys at Close Protection World forums have said that if one doesn't have the military or police experience they will have a much harder time attaining employment then ex-mil/LE guys. Even with the extra civvi security experience, many overseas high-risk assignments are usually given to the ex-mil/LE crowd, which makes sense.

Thanks for all the advice, keep it coming.

With respect,

Mike92


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## MikeL (21 Oct 2012)

Mike92 said:
			
		

> -Skeletor-, I have cancelled my old application for the Reserves and have resubmitted a new one for the Regular Force after MUCH thought and a lot of research both on this site and others.



Ack




			
				Mike92 said:
			
		

> I've read that one must first start out as conventional security guards/doormen to gain experience and contacts before going CP.


I would think that those pers who started off as low level security guards/doormen would be the minority.  Also within Canada there is unarmed domestic Close Protection(don't really need any/much experience for),  working with the larger firms(that work overseas) would require more.  Majority are pers who with Mil/LEO experience,  also just having Military experience(unless you have XX qual/experience) isn't going open all kinds of doors either.  

IMO,  don't concern yourself with that stuff,  even with the course it won't help you.. great you know how to do things the way they taught you on a course,  but it won't be the same as what you will have to learn for the Infantry.  At the battalion I was with on my previous posting there was a young Infantryman who took a civvie run "sniper" course(either before the CF or on leave) and was talking it up, etc..  I don't recall that going to well for him as he was saying this to the Recce Pl and Snipers.

Like Brihard said,  there are much better things to do to make your application be competitive,  civvie shooting courses, etc aren't it.


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## Mike92 (21 Oct 2012)

-Skeletor-, I agree 100%. I've also been looking at some conventional college courses such as Blasting and Health and Fitness Promotion.

Thanks for all the good (read: excellent) advice... yet again, LOL.

forums.army.ca= best site on the internet/top of my favourites list  

With respect,

Mike92


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## davidc538 (21 Oct 2012)

If you take w.e courses the recruiter said to you can always use that in your interview. "i took xyz course because the recruiter said it would be a good idea". Might improve your image in the eyes of the recruiting officers.


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## brihard (21 Oct 2012)

davidc538 said:
			
		

> If you take w.e courses the recruiter said to you can always use that in your interview. "i took xyz course because the recruiter said it would be a good idea". Might improve your image in the eyes of the recruiting officers.



I'd tell you to stay in your lane, but you wouldn't even know what that means. You aren't even in the military, never mind recruiting, and least of all in any position to tell someone what will stand him in good stead for infantry. He doesn't need bad advice from civilians when he's getting sound advice from serving members.

_Brihard:  mod edit to fix quote box for clarity_


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## davidc538 (22 Oct 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> davidc538 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're probably right, those job hunting courses college students have to take keep tricking me into thinking I know something about job interviews.

And "stay in your lane" isn't exactly something you'll only hear in the military.


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## brihard (22 Oct 2012)

davidc538 said:
			
		

> You're probably right, those job hunting courses college students have to take keep tricking me into thinking I know something about job interviews.
> 
> And "stay in your lane" isn't exactly something you'll only hear in the military.



You know much less on the subject than you seem to believe you do. You are not qualified to offer any meaningful insight on recruiting to the infantry, whereas a number of other members here who ARE in the military already are. Your ability to shoot back a snarky reply doesn't buy you any more credibility. Perhaps it's conceit on my part, but I suspect my close to nine years in the infantry and my (admittedly limited) experience in recruiting offers at least a little bit of insight that a civilian cannot possess.


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## aesop081 (22 Oct 2012)

davidc538 said:
			
		

> You're probably right, those job hunting courses college students have to take keep tricking me into thinking I know something about job interviews.



Holy s**t !!! You went to college !!!

 :




> And "stay in your lane" isn't exactly something you'll only hear in the military.



Well since you are familiar with the concept, turn your signal light on and move the f*** over.


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## ken.w2402 (23 Oct 2012)

I was in a similar situation not too long ago during my application for Inf O. By May of this year only about 3-5 direct-entry positions opened up and needless to say, it got pretty competitive.

Anyway, at least from my experience with recruiters, the education level only gets you so far (I had the bare minimum: a McGill degree with rather average GPA); they are much more interested in your overall professional experience, maturity, aptitude for teamwork and genuine motivation. 

Get yourself involved in the community, play team sports and strive to excel at your current profession. Demonstrate with *real, actual examples* that you have done, and are willing to do more than what is usually expected of you. However, remember to stay humble; know the difference between self-confidence and cockiness.

Combine the above-mentioned qualities with the required education level, plus a decent CFAT score and you’ll be a competitive candidate. Good luck!


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## DAA (23 Oct 2012)

Mike92 said:
			
		

> I was told by a recruiter that at the beginning of the new fiscal year (April 1) the new information as to how many new recruits they need will be sent to them.
> 
> He also said that because there aren't many openings for Infantry and pretty much all combat trades, the recruiting process is very competitive. He mentioned I should think about post-secondary education to make my application more appealing and to increase my chances of being selected. He said, for instance,  I could get my Heavy Equipment Operator certificate because it relates to what Combat Engineers do. It didn't make sense to me to learn something I would be taught in the Forces anyway. ???



First off, they already know what the numbers are for next year....

Secondly, if your applying for Infantry and or any other Combat Arms occupation as an NCM, I wouldn't exactly be telling you that "post secondary education" is going to make you "more appealing", given the time it will take to achieve it.   :facepalm:  I would give you that kind of advice, if you had the intentions of applying as an Officer but as an NCM applicant, you can do more in the short term to make yourself more competitive just through additional work experience (eg; part time jobs, volunteering, etc), physical fitness and sports (eg; exercising, working out, gym, team sports, etc), activities and interests (eg; community involvement, chores at home, etc), leadership/supervisor experience (eg; coaching, referee, etc).

Post secondary education is always a great option and something everyone should consider, given the current employment climate.  It never hurts to go back to school!!!  But seriously, if your applying to the CF as an NCM, why would anyone recommend you embark on a 2-4 year educational experience when in the end, it may not have the desire outcome that you are seeking.....


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## brihard (23 Oct 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> First off, they already know what the numbers are for next year....
> 
> Secondly, if your applying for Infantry and or any other Combat Arms occupation as an NCM, I wouldn't exactly be telling you that "post secondary education" is going to make you "more appealing", given the time it will take to achieve it.   :facepalm:  I would give you that kind of advice, if you had the intentions of applying as an Officer but as an NCM applicant, you can do more in the short term to make yourself more competitive just through additional work experience (eg; part time jobs, volunteering, etc), physical fitness and sports (eg; exercising, working out, gym, team sports, etc), activities and interests (eg; community involvement, chores at home, etc), leadership/supervisor experience (eg; coaching, referee, etc).
> 
> Post secondary education is always a great option and something everyone should consider, given the current employment climate.  It never hurts to go back to school!!!  But seriously, if your applying to the CF as an NCM, why would anyone recommend you embark on a 2-4 year educational experience when in the end, it may not have the desire outcome that you are seeking.....



Respectfully, I have to disagree with this one. From the outset, the recruiters do have a very initial scoring matrix that they will sometimes use for high demand occupations to determine if an application gets processed at all. A cut off score (I believe out of 20) will be assigned, and the applicant must hit a certain number of points to move one. One file with which I'm personally familiar was applying for a support trade that requires high school only, and they had enough applicants that a score of I think it was 14 was needed to get the file considered. On the file in question, the applicant had a college diploma that was somewhat related to the trade and which boosted their score considerably, enough to get consideration. Now, I've not worked reg force recruiting, however when it comes time for merit boards to sit for a given trade, it would seem to me that at least *some* consideration is given to education. Not necessarily that you've gone and gotten a degree for the infantry- but at least that you have *some* studies past high school. There is a ton of anecdotal evidence here on this forum of people being told by the recruiters that they should get more education, or conversely that having more education was part of what got them skimmed.

All else being equal, when trades are in high demand, whether someone has been arsed to continue with school is an easy indicator that someone's more motivated in general. We do get a lot of applicants who try to get in for years on end- easily enough to rack up a diploma or degree.


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## Ducimus BTC (25 Oct 2012)

This may be a little off topic as far as taking courses related to trades you are applying for, however still along the lines of approving an application. I have been offered to volunteer with the local legion, they have asked if I would be interested in joining the colour party. Could anyone see this volunteer work as helping my application? Or would volunteering at a soup kitchen be more along the lines of volunteer work a recruiter is looking for?


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## brihard (25 Oct 2012)

Ducimus BTC said:
			
		

> This may be a little off topic as far as taking courses related to trades you are applying for, however still along the lines of approving an application. I have been offered to volunteer with the local legion, they have asked if I would be interested in joining the colour party. Could anyone see this volunteer work as helping my application? Or would volunteering at a soup kitchen be more along the lines of volunteer work a recruiter is looking for?



I can't see the nature of the volunteering mattering much. They're more concerned just to see that you're doing something.


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## Jarnhamar (25 Oct 2012)

Ducimus BTC said:
			
		

> This may be a little off topic as far as taking courses related to trades you are applying for, however still along the lines of approving an application. I have been offered to volunteer with the local legion, they have asked if I would be interested in joining the colour party. Could anyone see this volunteer work as helping my application? Or would volunteering at a soup kitchen be more along the lines of volunteer work a recruiter is looking for?



Volunteering at a soup kitchen contributes to society more than carrying a flag around for a couple of hours.

I can appreciate your desire to join the CF and seek an advantage but you're really approaching volunteering for all the wrong reasons man.


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## Ducimus BTC (25 Oct 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Volunteering at a soup kitchen contributes to society more than carrying a flag around for a couple of hours.
> 
> I can appreciate your desire to join the CF and seek an advantage but you're really approaching volunteering for all the wrong reasons man.



Seen, thank you for your input.

Thanks for yours as well Brihard.


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## Goodeman (29 Oct 2012)

I volunteer for my local fire department. I hope that puts me on the radar.


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## Mike92 (30 Oct 2012)

Goodeman,

Just my opinion, but that would seem like one of the best places to volunteer with. Especially in terms of references.


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## JorgSlice (30 Oct 2012)

Mike92 said:
			
		

> Goodeman,
> 
> Just my opinion, but that would seem like one of the best places to volunteer with. Especially in terms of references.



Based on your extensive military experience and work in the Recruiting department, right?  :


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## Remius (30 Oct 2012)

PrairieThunder said:
			
		

> Based on your extensive military experience and work in the Recruiting department, right?  :



Not sure why that was deserving of your response.  He stated it was his opinion and used the word "seem".  He's not necessarily wrong depending on what he is applying for and what type of volunteer work he did and how many hours he puts in.


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## MikeL (30 Oct 2012)

PrairieThunder said:
			
		

> Based on your extensive military experience and work in the Recruiting department, right?  :



You don't have extensive military experience...  yet you post in numerous recruiting and other threads - cool it a bit.  What Mike92 said was just his opinion,  not like he said it like he knew for fact that it is a good thing, etc.


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