# Half-Mast Flags for Jacques Parizeau



## CombatMacguyver (8 Jun 2015)

I just received notification in my outlook that all the flags on all federal buildings in Quebec will have their flags dropped to half-mast today in honour of the late Jacques Parizeau.  I can confirm that all the flags around Valcatraz are lowered.

I'm all for honouring the dead, but is this really appropriate?  The man's entire life-goal was to destroy the Canadian Federation as we know it (for better or for worse).  I've heard of being gracious to defeated enemies but....

The Flag seems to drop to half-mast far too easily in this country.


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## George Wallace (8 Jun 2015)

As the  26e premier ministre du Québec he deserves the same respect as any other Premier.  

I see schools named after Louis Riel and street names after Nazi sympathizers today.  They were much worse.


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## CombatMacguyver (8 Jun 2015)

Agreed.  I've always considered those ridiculously inappropriate as well.


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## expwor (8 Jun 2015)

I understand what your saying but he was a former Premier of Quebec, which is a province in Canada
I don't agree, one bit, with the separatist movement.  And if the flag was at half staff for a member of the FLQ I would be outraged.  But agree or disagree with his politics, he was elected by the Quebec (who are also Canadian) electorate.  The same electorate who did not support separatism.
In short, are only former Premiers and other politicians who support the "right" point of view entitled to flags at half staff
Again, I do truly understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.  But he was a Premier in a province in Canada, and flags at half staff are showing appropriate respect
Just my two cents

Tom


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## Remius (8 Jun 2015)

One man's villain is another man's hero.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (8 Jun 2015)

Perhaps, he was neither !


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## geo (10 Jun 2015)

Regardless of his personal views, he opted for a referendum, lost and despite his comments within minutes of the results, accepted the voice of the people.

I don't have to like him, but, as a politician, he did accomplish many good things - being instrumental in the creation of the "caisse de depot et placement".


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## Scoobie Newbie (10 Jun 2015)

half mast in his country, not mine.


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## Scoobs (15 Jun 2015)

I do not agree with putting CANADIAN flags half masted for a separatist, former Premier or not.


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## Harrigan (15 Jun 2015)

Regardless of anyone's personal opinion, M.Parizeau represented the democratic will of the Canadian citizens residing in the Province of Quebec at the time.  The lowering of the flag is consistent with the office held.

Harrigan


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## Scoobs (15 Jun 2015)

Thanks Harrigan, still doesn't change my opinion.  As you are entitled to your opinion, so am I.

Also, thanks for giving us a lesson that the people of Quebec are Canadian.  You will note that no one in this thread has stated that the people of Quebec are not Canadian.  What those disagreeing with the flag being lowered are saying is that they don't agree with the Canadian flag being lowered. 

I will re-emphasize, I don't care whether he was the Premier or even if he was the Pope, a separatist should not be honoured with a Canadian flag lowering.


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## Harrigan (15 Jun 2015)

Actually, I haven't stated my opinion on the subject.  Please don't assume you know what it is.

I am only pointing out reiterating what George Wallace has already said that putting flags at half-mast for a former Premier of Quebec is the existing regulation.

Harrigan

Edit: Giving George Wallace his proper due...


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Jun 2015)

Harrigan said:
			
		

> I am only pointing out that putting flags at half-mast for a former Premier of Quebec is the existing regulation.



Technically, it isn't an existing regulation.

Since most on these means heartedly disagreed with the politics and aims of M. Parizeau, it's probably right that there are rules in place for such things as flag protocol - it avoids discussion about the relative merits of an individual and how to recognize his passing.  The flag is not half-masted automatically because he was a former premier of a province as that is not one of the categories of persons who rate such recognition.  In M. Parizeau's case, the half-masting of the Canadian Flag on federal buildings and establishments in Quebec is likely due to the following rule.

http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1329153045577/1329153291582


> 10. Half-Masting Initiated by a Province or Territory
> 
> When a Province or Territory Half-masts its provincial or territorial flag for a reason other than one provided for in the Rules, the Flag will be Half-masted within that Province or Territory, except on the Peace Tower if the Province is Ontario, to the same geographical extent and for the same duration as the Province or Territory Half-masts its flag. The Flag will only be Half-masted in the said Province or Territory upon notification to the Manager responsible for the administration of the Rules within the Department of Canadian Heritage by the Chief of Protocol of that Province or Territory of the reason, geographical extent and duration of the said Half-masting.



Even established government protocol of La Belle Province doesn't automatically sanction the half-masting of flags for its former premiers, however I'm sure that in practice they would all be similarly honoured.

http://www.mrif.gouv.qc.ca/en/protocole/pavoisement/politique-internationale


> Half-mast
> 
> Flying a flag at half mast is an official manifestation of collective mourning and consists of hauling it halfway down for a specified period. The rules for this vary from one society to another; what Le Protocole recommends are generally recognized principles. The Québec flag is flown at half mast on dates fixed for certain commemorations and in other circumstances, mainly on the deaths of eminent citizens, for collective mourning, or for events it is desired to commemorate.
> 
> ...


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## Harrigan (15 Jun 2015)

Thanks Blackadder1916, for doing that research.  It puts it in its proper context.

Interesting (and welcome) that an exception is spelled out for the Peace Tower flag. 

Harrigan


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## Gronk (15 Jun 2015)

I'm going to give my take on this by sharing a personal story.

When the war in Afg was quite intense and we were losing a lot of fine men and women, I lost a close friend and comrade. The next day I was in my legion lounge when this death came up in conversation. Before I could say anything about it, a RCAF veteran who had served briefly in the 60's, turned to me, smiled, and said, "That's OK, it's only another pickley". I think that he thought he was making a joke, and that the only thing that saved this tool was that I was so shocked and gobsmacked that someone would say this to my face at this moment that I just sat in stunned silence. I left before I wound up beating this asshole to death. Needless to say, there was no love lost between us in the ensuing years.

A few years later, I wound up being president of my legion. Being president of a legion, you wind up attending, and officiating, a lot of funerals or memorials of veterans and Legion members (giving the act of remembrance, Legion prayer etc...). You might have six in a month, you might have none for six months, it varies of course. I was in my second term as prez when this asshole's number came up.

I was tempted to pawn this off on the past prez or one of my vice prez's, but after some consideration, I realized where my duties lay. Though he was a huge waste of oxygen in my personal opinion, he did serve, however briefly, and this fact alone earned him the best and most respectfull send off we could give him. So I did my best by him. These rites and ceremonies are really for the benefit of the deceased's loved ones. It is they that receive comfort from them.

After having a few wobbly pops after the ceremony, and listening to friends and family going on and on about what a great guy he was (as friend and family tend to do), practically nominating him for sainthood, I decided to take my leave before my lips began to slip.

My point is, that personal opinions and political points of view should not be a factor in anyone's qualifications for a veteran's funeral, or flags at half staff, or any other entitlement.

My two shekels


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## dimsum (15 Jun 2015)

Gronk said:
			
		

> My point is, that personal opinions and political points of view should not be a factor in anyone's qualifications for a veteran's funeral, or flags at half staff, or any other entitlement.
> 
> My two shekels



My feelings exactly.


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## paffomaybe (15 Jun 2015)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/montreal-police-pension-pants-protest-tests-premiers-patience/article24929803/

"A longstanding dispute over pensions has pushed the city’s men and women in blue to wear anything but. Eager to express their displeasure but forbidden legally to strike, law enforcement in the city has taken to donning everything from garish camouflage pants and leopard-print leggings to jeans and other forms of dissident fashion.

But now, there are signs that the great police pant protest may have gone too far.

The officers’ decision to spurn their uniforms in favour of colourful pants at the state funeral of former premier Jacques Parizeau this week sparked an unusually intense round of criticism, spanning from Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre and across social media to Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard, who called it disrespectful and now promises to legislate an end to the practice.

(The officers did wear their uniforms to the funeral of hockey great Jean Béliveau last December, leading one person on Twitter to quip that *Mr. Parizeau’s failing was that he helped build Quebec, he didn’t win a Stanley Cup.)*"


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## geo (20 Jun 2015)

Hizzonor the Mayor made his point.
When former Mayor Doré passed away this week, the local constabulary was quick off the mark to indicate they would be wearing their regulation uniform at this funeral...


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## The Bread Guy (2 Jul 2015)

In a similar vein, here we see someone who (by the letter of the rules) rates a half-staffing of the flag, but doesn't appear to be getting one (if unnamed sources are to be believed)....


> Prime Minister Stephen Harper has apparently suspended the protocol that would have seen the Peace Tower flag flown at half-mast in honour of Arthur Porter, the controversial physician who has died while fighting extradition in Panama.
> 
> Dr. Porter was wanted on charges of fraud and corruption in Canada, but he was also a member of the Privy Council. He received the honour in 2008 when Mr. Harper appointed him to the body that serves as the watchdog for the country’s spy agency.
> 
> ...


.... assuming, of course, he really IS dead  ;D


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## Ostrozac (2 Jul 2015)

"The Queen's Privy Council for Canada, sometimes called Her Majesty's Privy Council for Canada or simply the Privy Council in Canada, is the full group of personal consultants to the monarch of Canada on state and constitutional affairs."

I note that Her Majesty had, as one of her personal consultants on state and constitutional affairs, a scum-bag who was locked up in prison. I guess you need to have a broad and diverse group of advisors if you want to see the big picture! How very Yes Minister.

We have a constitutional emergency, Minister! We need to consult the Privy Council -- visiting hours are 2 to 5, and make sure you bring them a few cartons of smokes.


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