# NCD Ballcaps



## Matt_Fisher (14 Jul 2010)

Are the ballcaps that are authorized for wear with NCDs an issue item, or purchased through the ship/formation canteen/kitshop?


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## Pusser (14 Jul 2010)

They are purchased at public expense and issued to the sailors upon joining the ship.  However, they do not come through the CF Supply System.  Each ship purchases them from local suppliers.  There are are defined specifications (i.e. colour, size of lettering, etc) with which the caps must comply in order to be allowed for wear as a uniform item.  With the exception of "scrambled eggs" on the brim for the CO, no embellishments are allowed.  Ships will usually also carry them in the canteen so sailors can buy replacements if they so desire.  Canteens will also set up to sell them to visitors.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (15 Jul 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> ...no embellishments are allowed.


Unless you happen to be FDU(P) or FDU(A)  >


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## PegcityNavy (15 Jul 2010)

I made the mistake of wearing an HMCS Winnipeg cap at a local pub in Victoria, the NCM members were not too happy.  I learned my lesson pretty quickly.


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## 1feral1 (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> I made the mistake of wearing an HMCS Winnipeg cap at a local pub in Victoria, the NCM members were not too happy.  I learned my lesson pretty quickly.



Thats too bad, a nation's pride with it's citizens showing support and publicity with such a hat, from  such a fine ship and crew can go a long way. If I seen someone wearing my Unit's hat or t-shirt in a pub, I'd buy them a beer and ask where they got it, not criticise someone for wearing it.


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## Sub_Guy (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> I made the mistake of wearing an HMCS Winnipeg cap at a local pub in Victoria, the NCM members were not too happy.  I learned my lesson pretty quickly.



You have to be kidding me.

It was not a mistake wearing a ships ball cap at a local pub, people buy ball caps all the time for friends and family members.  The NCM's who expressed their displeasure in you wearing the hat were out of line.  C.C. has the right idea.


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## NCRCrow (15 Jul 2010)

agree with CC & DH. Its all about pride! Especially during our Centennial! 

GO NAVY!


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## Pusser (15 Jul 2010)

Lex Parsimoniae said:
			
		

> Unless you happen to be FDU(P) or FDU(A)  >



Just because people do things, doesn't mean they're allowed to.  To the best of my knowledge FDU (A&P) have never been authorized to do that and the issue has been raised, but still it continues....  The submariners have been known to do it as well, but they seem to be less roguish and on the west coast, stopped when they were told to do so.

This sort of cowboy approach to the rules sometimes happens when you elevate groups to elite status.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> I made the mistake of wearing an HMCS Winnipeg cap at a local pub in Victoria, the NCM members were not too happy.  I learned my lesson pretty quickly.


What was their issue with you wearing the cap?  Like the other posters, I would be proud to have people wear my unit's ballcap [which we sell to the public at every opportunity ;D].


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## kratz (15 Jul 2010)

I have four or five old (black) ballcaps from other units that I have worked with. I admit to choosing not wear one around Halifax to avoid complications. While on vacation or home I will wear them as others have posted.


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## NCRCrow (15 Jul 2010)

My Father wears my ship one proudly. I would like to see somebody to tell him to take it off. 

(Probably over-reacting here, please annotate my Army.ca Div notes as req'd)


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## PegcityNavy (15 Jul 2010)

Lex Parsimoniae said:
			
		

> What was their issue with you wearing the cap?  Like the other posters, I would be proud to have people wear my unit's ballcap [which we sell to the public at every opportunity ;D].



I was told by the officers i was with it was disrespectful to wear it if i was not a member of that ships crew. And i was instructed to take it off.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> I made the mistake of wearing an HMCS Winnipeg cap at a local pub in Victoria, the NCM members were not too happy.  I learned my lesson pretty quickly.





			
				Pegcity said:
			
		

> I was told by the officers i was with it was disrespectful to wear it if i was not a member of that ships crew. And i was instructed to take it off.



I'm confused – was it “NCM members” of WINNIPEG or “officers you were with” that told you to remove it??

In any event, the caps are widely sold for public wear.  In addition to being given to people who day sail aboard the ship, they're regularly given away to chandlers, ship's pilots, tug boat crews, etc when in foreign ports.  It's a great way to build good will and get free advertising too.

Anybody telling a member of the public to remove a ship's ball cap is wrong (except in situations when wearing any form of headdress is wrong such as a mess, etc).  Out of curiosity - how did you come to possess a WINNIPEG ball cap?


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## PegcityNavy (15 Jul 2010)

The Officers i was with told me to remove the cap, the NCM members were from the ship who's cap i was wearing, HMCS Winnipeg, and they were not happy i was wearing the cap.

I had no issue removing it, as i understood it was part of their uniform and i shouldn't be wearing it in that situation if i was not a member of their ship.

I wear it at home, i agreed in that situation it was best i took it off.


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## PegcityNavy (15 Jul 2010)

The Cap was purchased on a day sail on HMCS Winnipeg during NOAB.


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## Monsoon (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> The Cap was purchased on a day sail on HMCS Winnipeg during NOAB.


Exactly - the ship sold you the ballcap and, with it, the right to wear it as you see fit; no cries of "disrespect" allowed. If they don't want non-ship's company members to wear it, they know what they can do to stop that.

That being said, it is a little "civvie" - but if you are still a civvie then no problem. Once you get a unit ballcap of your own you can wear that around.


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## Pusser (15 Jul 2010)

I wonder if ship's should now post signs at their canteens instructing visitors to please buy their ball caps, but don't ever wear them?  I'm sure that will help sales considerably!  To the ingrates who expected you to take it off, I would say that they should re-think their attitude and the next time they get a "free" beer or pop after storing ship or a freezie or RAS candy during a RAS, or attend a ship's company dance, they should think about and thank all the people who buy stuff in their canteens to provide the revenue to pay for these things!  Ships' Funds make a killing on crested merchandise when they're open to visitors and it is the Ships' Funds that pay for all the parties and a lot of the other fun things in the Navy.  There should be no strings attached to what people do with the stuff afterwards.  I'm pretty sure that not all the people I see walking around in Senators jerseys have actually played for the Senators.


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## PegcityNavy (15 Jul 2010)

I totally agree with you guys, but when you are on NOAB and an Officer tells you to do something you do it, i was not going to argue.


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## SeanNewman (15 Jul 2010)

Carcharodon Carcharias said:
			
		

> T...If I saw someone wearing my Unit's hat or t-shirt in a pub, I'd buy them a beer and ask where they got it, not criticise someone for wearing it.



I agree.  Some military-types have taken possession of the units they belong to way too far, not realizing that the public is supporting them.  They're treating it like a qualification badge that another soldier is wearing if they aren't entitled to it.

IMO it is the ultimate compliment, no different than an average American wearing a Navy Seals shirt.

People have to view it like a sports jersey.  If you played for the Toronto Raptors, would you jack a guy up on the street who was wearing your team's jersey because he didn't earn it, or thank him for choosing to support you?


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## Lex Parsimoniae (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> I totally agree with you guys, but when you are on NOAB and an Officer tells you to do something you do it, i was not going to argue.


Please PM me with the officer's name and approximate date.


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## Neill McKay (15 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> I totally agree with you guys, but when you are on NOAB and an Officer tells you to do something you do it, i was not going to argue.



Is there any possibility that the issue was to do with your wearing it in a pub?  It would be normal for CF members to take off their hats in such a place.


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## aesop081 (15 Jul 2010)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> Is there any possibility that the issue was to do with your wearing it in a pub?  It would be normal for CF members to take off their hats in such a place.



That's not the issue. The crewmembers in question told the OP to remove the hat because he was not a member of the crew, not because he was indoors.

Sounds like some of the crew wants to have their cake and eat it too......... :


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## MSEng314 (15 Jul 2010)

Which pub were you at? If it was the Tudor House, then there might be an explanation.


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## PegcityNavy (15 Jul 2010)

It was Darcy's


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## Sub_Guy (15 Jul 2010)

Kind of makes me want to put on a ships hat, head downtown, and go fishing.  

I am in a cake serving kind of mood. 


Its just too bad I am stuck in Waikiki.


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## aesop081 (15 Jul 2010)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Its just too bad I am stuck in Waikiki.



Probably bitching about it the whole time too...........


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## MSEng314 (15 Jul 2010)

Hmmm, I'm at a loss then, if they didn't want you to wear it, why would they let you buy it...

I guess some people just have their own way of doing things, right or wrong...


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## jollyjacktar (19 Jul 2010)

Yep, that sounds like the West Coast attitude to me.  It seemed to me that there was an above average amount of folks with too much time on their hands every time I have been there.  They need to get a life.   :


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## Ex-Dragoon (20 Jul 2010)

Not condoning the treatment that Pegcity experienced,  but is there a possibility the ball cap was being worn in a manner that was disrepectful to the Winnipeg? i.e. Gangsta style, backwards etc? I remember the reaction of some CAR members when civvies in Pembroke and Petawawa wore the unit t shirt as well, it was less then pretty and I am sure they were bought as well.


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## PegcityNavy (20 Jul 2010)

The hat was worn forward. Not sideways or backwards.


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## Ex-Dragoon (20 Jul 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> The hat was worn forward. Not sideways or backwards.



Thanks for the clarification.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (23 Jul 2010)

Seems to me we are dealing with a unique situation here.

First of all, I think we all know that for serving personnel, it is inappropriate to wear another ship's ball cap onboard your current ship. By extension, I would consider inappropriate to wear another ship's ball cap ashore when I know I have even a slight chance of running into  current shipmates (I might make an exception here for an "historical" ball cap from a ship retired from service of special significance to the member).

However, for civilians, visitors, family members and any other person, not currently serving in the Navy, wearing any ship's ball cap, properly and respectfully, is always acceptable.

In the present case, if I understand well, Pegcity was an NOAB and attending at the pub with an officer. Two things: Some NCMs may have had a little too much and decided to look for trouble or, seeing him with an officer they recognize, they may have decided to "test" that officer a bit, for some reasons totally unrelated to  Pegcity.

In either case, Pegcity, I would tell you to continue to wear your ball cap with pride and just ignore such interventions, especially in pubs.


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## mad dog 2020 (29 Jul 2010)

I have two kids in the navy. I buy my gear from either Canex or the Pacific Kitshop.  I wear my caps with pride.  Almost every article of apparel now has a corporate logo or sports crest and I choose military as I am proud and retired (army).  
I never played for the Maple Leafs and my name ain't Hugo Boss.  
I'll buy it in a military store and the profits can go to the ship.
Is there a east coast kitshop for hats as I will be out East soon?
Enjoying my coffee in my VANCOUVER mug.
 
I like the buy a drink scenario.


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## Old Naval Guard (3 Aug 2010)

Quite Right, I myself have a HMCS Halifax Ball cap, and I wear it with pride now and then, as a Former member of Canada's Naval Reserve. I wish I had a Naval ballcap non unit specific. I war this ball cap as I support the Canadain Navy  :cdnsalute: Cheers Old Naval Guard


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## xo31@711ret (3 Aug 2010)

Myself include. I was a 24 year x-reg force army medic  (& also 6 year x Royal) attached posted from the supp reserve to HMCS JOLLIET for 4 years. I was only one of 2 (niner-dom, a clerk, was the other) who wore cadpat. I was & am proud to wear my NCSM JOLLIET cap & HMCS CORNERBROOK I got when the ship was here on a great lakes tour a few years back . 
Ready-aye- Ready


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## SeanNewman (4 Aug 2010)

Old Naval Guard said:
			
		

> ... I wish I had a Naval ballcap non unit specific...



If you're still anywhere near a base, just make your way to a Canex.

There's all sorts of 100 Years of Navy clothing/hats.


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## Pat in Halifax (4 Aug 2010)

Good point though - I am a collector of Naval ball caps (drives my wife over the edge sometimes!) and there is no simple "Canadian Navy" ones - unless I am missing something??? 
I recently gave one to my 15 year old niece which says "Old  Real Navy" She is at "that age" though and doesn't quite get it!
I still have "a lot" of ship's ball caps (left and right coast) from the time prior to them being standardized and some are pretty sharp - favourite is probably YUKON.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (4 Aug 2010)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Good point though - I am a collector of Naval ball caps (drives my wife over the edge sometimes!) and there is no simple "Canadian Navy" ones - unless I am missing something???
> I recently gave one to my 15 year old niece which says "Old  Real Navy" She is at "that age" though and doesn't quite get it!
> I still have "a lot" of ship's ball caps (left and right coast) from the time prior to them being standardized and some are pretty sharp - favourite is probably YUKON.


Next time you're in a US port - the US Navy Exchange has a decent selection of crested stuff with 'NAVY' on it including ball caps.


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## PegcityNavy (4 Aug 2010)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Good point though - I am a collector of Naval ball caps (drives my wife over the edge sometimes!) and there is no simple "Canadian Navy" ones - unless I am missing something???
> I recently gave one to my 15 year old niece which says "Old  Real Navy" She is at "that age" though and doesn't quite get it!
> I still have "a lot" of ship's ball caps (left and right coast) from the time prior to them being standardized and some are pretty sharp - favourite is probably YUKON.



Maybe because we don't have a navy we have Maritime Command  ;D


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## Oldgateboatdriver (4 Aug 2010)

Well that's weird: If anybody out there is still around from the "Great Manitoba Flood", then they should have their "NAVY" ball cap they were issued at the time.


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## jollyjacktar (4 Aug 2010)

I have a "Navy" ballcap that was given to me by the PAFO when I was doing some interviews WRT the work my team and I did for the Public Gardens after Hurricane Juan.  Only wore it the once as I don't wear hats unless I have to.


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## Pat in Halifax (4 Aug 2010)

Last time I was in Norfolk, I actually got a few hats and sweats that say just NAVY on them. No offence to any francophones but sometimes plain NAVY is good. 
Very &$@*&^ funny Pegcity!
I was not involved in the Manitoba Flood Relief but I would not be at all surprised if those hats came from the US Navy. Most of ours is bilingual.
I get an awful lot of unique looks on my noon walks down town wearing my "Naval Engineering School" ball cap - I generally get 'the nod' from fellow sailors or vets - I don't think anyone else quite knows what to make of it!!!

Interesting point here, when I sail as CFNES staff with students with our "Naval Engineering School" ball caps, thed Cox'n each time (6 ships since I've had the job) have given us ship's ball caps. I personally, stick with the NES one.


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## PegcityNavy (4 Aug 2010)

Ill check out the naval museum at the reserves here in next time im downtown and see if they sell a navy cap. I seem to remember they had some for sale at the gift shop.


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## Pat in Halifax (4 Aug 2010)

Very likely in some of the more 'obscure' places. If I am not mistaken, when I was out west last summer, the Esquimalt Military Museum had a cap that had just "Navy" on it too. 
CANEX is getting a little better but I find that some of the really good stuff is in individual ship's canteens. I think if some company started making even some of the older vessels to sell through CANEX, they would most definately sell. I think all of us have a relative who served on a previous ship.


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## Pusser (5 Aug 2010)

One of the reasons you may not find ship's ball caps at Canex is because the ships themselves protest it.  Ball caps and other crested items are big money makers for ships' canteens, which in turn provide the money for the Ships' Funds.  The sale of ships' ball caps through Canex cuts into ships' profits as Canex does not royalties to them.

Another thing to consider is that most people who have a ship's ball cap have some connection with the ship, having either served in it, visited it or have had a connection with someone on board.  In all of those cases, the most likely source of the cap would be the ship itself.  I would argue that the number of people going to Canex to buy ships' ball caps would be very small.  After all which Blue Jays ball cap would be more valuable to someone, the one they bought at Zellers or the one the bought at the stadium?


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Aug 2010)

Pegcity said:
			
		

> Maybe because we don't have a navy we have Maritime Command  ;D



Funny how many serving sailors who do the business everyday would disagree with you.


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## PegcityNavy (5 Aug 2010)

I was joking. I was at NOAB i agree i never heard a single person refer to Maritime Command.


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