# Packing a Ruck



## Devlin

Hello All:

I have been asking around my unit about how to pack a ruck properly. For example what to put in it and where to put everything. Yes we did have an instruction given to us during basic with what they required we have in our ruck but this list was designed to meet the needs of our basic course and not the field. Any advice, especially from the infantry types on the list would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks again


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## Doug VT

Of course there are some basics‘, but really it‘s all up to you.  It will all come with some experience.  Most units have a kit list for garrison and for those people who don‘t have a clue.  Myself, I have certain things that I like to pack for climate or location/terrain.  However, more times than not I end up with the bare minimum because operational kit takes priority (and space)  Things like radios‘, ammo(all kinds), NVG‘s, GPS, rations, etc... will weigh down your ruck in no time.

My unit has a winter kit list that reads like this:

Rucksack:  White cam cover rolled & secured to top of frame.

   a.  Right, Left, & Centre Pockets.

    ammo.
    rations.
    white toque.
    camouflage whites, top & bottom.
    white helmet cam cover if not already on helmet.

   b.  Main Compartment.

    cbt shirt.
    cbt pants.
    polar fleece top.
    cbt t-shirt.
    underwear.
    thermal underwear top & bottom.
    socks, grey, 2pr.
    spare duffle socks, mesh & felt insoles.
    50 ft 550 cord.
    2 x snap links & sash cord.
    plastic plate, cup & KFS.
    2-qrt water bottle w/carrier secured to side.
    entrenching tool w/carrier secured to side.
    flashlight.

   c.  Sleeping Bag Carrier.

    sleeping bag complete.
    bivi bag.
    shaving kit.
    towel, hand.
    utility sheet or poncho.

   d.  Therma Rest Mattress secured between cargo main compartment and sleeping bag carrier.

That‘s the suggested "kit list" for inspections and all that.  I personally don‘t pack like that!  Like I said, after a few exercises you will get the hang of it, sometimes it‘s hit and miss.  For example, you could be going on exercise in a nice warm place like Florida.  Common sense would suggest that you don‘t need much in the way of warm kit or sleeping gear.  However, Florida might just happen to have a freakish cold spell with snow and the works!  You is screwed, doomed to freeze your but off.  At least everyone else is in the same boat, brrrrrrrr.....

Good luck, pack what you think that you‘ll need.  Next time you can leave out the stuff that you didn‘t even come close to using.


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## Pikache

I don‘t have much experience either, but I found out this weekend that a toque and a scarf is a MUST on any ex that looks remotely like it‘s going to be cold.
And a bivy bag and sleeping bag is pretty damn warm.


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## Sharpey

It seems that any base in Canada has it‘s own climate seperated from the rest of the Province it‘s in. Especially Meaford. Pack for all weather conditions I say.


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## bossi

I DISTINCTLY remember an MWO in Meaford (wearing his parka) laughing at us shivering in our cbt jackets ...

It‘s true - experience will help you decide/remember what you need.  Flexibility helps, too (i.e. we used to always take our rain jackets and a fleece top - combined, they would get us through unforecasted cold snaps ...).

This time of year, gloves are taken for granted, however they‘re worth carrying all year round (especially when your hands aren‘t made of leather ... another lesson from the school of hard knocks).  A tocque/balaclava doesn‘t take up much space (and berets don‘t keep the ears warm ...).

Another item is food - sure, you can wait until the rations are distributed ... or ... you can tuck one or two personal specials/favourites into a handy pocket (lay off the candy, however - sugar rush doesn‘t last very long - nuts are good, but can make you thirsty - trail mix or reasonable fascimile thereof is reasonable alternate) - key to packing emergency rats is to make sure they‘re accessible.

Similarly, spare (dry) socks can be a lifesaver ... provided they‘re still dry ... ("ziplock", but squeeze the air out first).

And, first aid stuff doesn‘t have to be bulky - during the Falklands War the after action reports all commented on the shortages of normal cold medicine - you know what medicine works best for you - tuck in a few cold pills and painkillers - one day, you‘ll be SOOOO thankful you did ...

Other than that, it‘s a statement of the obvious but ... make sure it‘s balanced (not forcing you off balance to one side), and think about the order you‘re putting things in (i.e. at the bottom, put the stuff you‘d have lots of time to fish out - at the top, put the stuff you‘d have to grab in a hurry).

You‘re the one who has to live with your handiwork, so time spent in planning and preparation will benefit you.

And, as soon as you get back from an exercise or operation, clean your stuff and repack your ruck RIGHT AWAY (while the lessons are fresh in your memory)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At some point in time, there has always been "a first time" for everything - thus, if you‘re absolutely convinced you‘ve stumbled upon a good idea, then give it a go (within reason) - however, don‘t be too surprised if it‘s already been done before, or if it doesn‘t work out as well as you‘d hoped ... (it‘s funny, but sometimes the old way has survived ... for a reason ...)

With time, experience, and success, it‘s get easier and easier (which is why it seems that "old-timers" can do this in their sleep ...)

Good luck.
MB


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## combat_medic

Since I‘m always carrying an extra 20lbs of medical kit, I‘m very conscious of the weight of my ruck. In Vancouver you can always count on rain, so there‘s always some wet weather gear and many changes of socks. I‘ll include 1 change of pants and t-shirt, long underwear (it‘s light and compact), fleece shirt, gloves, toque, scarf, toiliteries kit, baby wipes (great for cleaning your face in the morning, cleaning your hands before a meal, wiping off cam paint etc.). And then sleeping kit, jump bag, and webbing. 

If IMPs are required, make sure you leave room in your ruck/webbing. If you need to carry extra ammo, a radio, water, or anything else, make sure you leave room for it. Never count on the weather, try to be prepared for everything, but make sure you‘re capable of carrying it for long distances.


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## Doug VT

Of course EVERYTHING in your ruck should be waterproofed in it‘s own individual bag.  Extra warm kit if you‘ve got the room.  A bunch of chocolate bars for the absolute worst part of your day when things couldn‘t suck more!

Definitely some medication i.e. painkillers, decongestants.  And if you‘re like me, your ruck is all modified to ****  to allow better placement of all the extra crap you may have to carry, especially a couple bungee cords permanently attached to the frame in key locations.  I might post some pictures from around the company of different guys rucks.  One guy that I work with who is just happens to be instructing on the Pathfinder course right now is currently using the bag off the 82‘ pattern ruck(read leg ruck) in place of the sleeping bag valise.  So it‘s the 68‘ pattern ruck(jump ruck) with the 82‘ bag attached on top.  He also has two utility pouches sewn into the bottom of his ruck.  There are definitely a lot of different ideas floating around out there.  Only you can determine what‘s really right for you.


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## onecat

One thing that I would add for sure if instant coffee bags there just like tea bags.   They actually taste pretty good, and if your like me and need a coffee to get going its a must.

But please do post your pics of rucks.  I like to see how its done before I have to pack them.


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## portcullisguy

Question #1:  What the ****  is a bivy bag?  I‘ve heard it described, but found no such thing in my basic kit issue list.  My sleeping bag includes a liner, inner and outer, and that‘s it.  Should I have been issued a bivy bag?  If not, should I acquire one after basic?

Question #2:  I know this has to do with rucks, not the small pack, but how on Earth are you supposed to fit everything they suggest in kit lists into the small pack?  With the gloves, cbt hat, rainsuit, complete, hexy tabs, emergency kit, matches, and spare socks, I can‘t find room for the "Extra ammo" or "1-2 imps" or some of the other nonsense recommended in my kit list... good thing it‘s a basic course, and I don‘t have to carry ammo anyway! (yet)

Question #3:  Again, not entirely related to rucks, but I‘ve just learned today that such a thing exists as rehydrant powder.  Does any one have any experience with this?  Is it realistic taht at some point during an ex, someone will go down with dehydration due to all the physical exertion, and is this better to have than, for example, an IV?  Or do medics already carry this and I shouldn‘t worry about it?

Lastly, Question #4 is for Doug:  Where can I find resealable (ziplock) bags large enough to fit cbt shirt, cbt pants, cbt jacket, etc., into?  My freezer bags are only really big enough for a pair of socks or spare underwear/t-shirt, or sewing-kit & toiletry kit, etc.


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## combat_medic

A bivy bag is a goretex bag that goes over your sleeping bag and keeps everything warm and dry (really great piece of kit). It usually isn‘t issued until after you finish basic training, but if you don‘t get it then, mention it to your unit stores. 

In your small pack, you should keep your rain jacket, but the rain pains aren‘t really necessary unless it‘s a torrential downpour. After your basic, toss them. In 4 years I‘ve never brought them, and never even had an occasion to wear them. Also, you should have your C9 pouch in which to store kit (unless of course you‘re carrying C9 ammo).

As for rehydrant powder; the only thing that would come close is glucose tablets or sodium tablets. These replace lots sugars and salt in your body. They WILL NOT rehydrate you. The only thing that will rehydrate you is fluid... PERIOD. Drink lots of water, and make sure to add a pinch of salt to your meal. Water is your best friend; drink even if you‘re not thirsty... when you feel thirsty it‘s usually too late. I cannot stress this enough... water water water.

As for plastic bags (don‘t mean to steal your thunder, Doug), it‘s not necessary to use ziploc bags, even if ones that large existed. Just use garbage bags of a reasonable quality so that they don‘t rip too easy and don‘t leak. Also use a garbage bag to line the inside of your ruck, and you won‘t have to individually pack each thing in your ruck.


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## Harry

Porty.

Before you get all gung-ho.  Here are a couple of thoughts.

Zip Locks great, for the big stuff, they have the BIG freezer bags.

Back in the days of lore before all the high tech baggies came out, my kit load was packed simple.
Big black heavy duty garbage bag in the main compartment and shopping bags for the side pouches, worked a charm.

However, if one must and I know I did.  The US Army has a very nice rubberized valise liner, it is also large enough for the main compartment.  I used the large zip locks for the side pouches (I.E. socks in one, ginch in another yadda yadda) and the items in the butt pack were individually bagged.

For the Butt Pack, if you can get your hands on the old style thermos holder, you can use it to stuff kit in and strap to the top.  I used one in Germany to carry my Ranger blanket and ammo(never left home without it).  Trust me, the stuff you indicated is a far cry from some loads.  And I see the Melmac ensemble isn‘t included...

For packing the kit for the small pouches and butt pack.  When you roll it or fold it and put in those little zip locks, sit on them and force out all the air and close, almost like vacuum packed and reduces bulk.

I carried a small trench/patrol sniffle pack in my butt pack, just a few singular items just in case and a small self aid kit on my ruck.

Just remember any fool can be uncormfortable in the field.  You pack it, you carry it.  And make sure you remember exactly which tree you burried the extra kit under for the after End-Ex return...


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## Ghillie

Great soldier stuff...,

Biggest issue when bringing all your kit to the field is looking after it so it is avail to you.  At the end of a hump when you go to ground there is a big temptation to get your gear sread out and hit the sleeping bag before your 0300 sentry duty.

Take 5 min and repack what you have taken out and waterproof your kit because rain or heavy dew will soak it and there is nothing worse than hauling around wet kit.

Like previous posts I like bungy cord in long and short pieces and earth tones to make a hooch faster and more water proof (tighter).  I also put my matches in a film cannister as it is waterproof although there is an issue item out.  Bring a flashlight with colour lense insert as you may be the point individual that runs into a friendly patrol.Don‘t assume your sleeping bag valise is waterproof use a green or black garbage bag as a liner.  And for what its worth I pack two knives one a 7 in fixed blade on my webbing and the other a pocket lock knife as well as about 12 ft of para cord.

Years ago I broke my collar bone in a jeep accident so on one side of my ruck strap I have taped some foam padding to keep from getting rub marks-I bring this up so you can get the idea to personalize your kit.

Enjoy your field experiences as it is one of the major things that if you learn to like it and practise your craft you will set yourself apart from most civvies.


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## Spr.Earl

Listen to the infanteer‘s as they have to pack and
hump what  they carry.
One thing though your sock‘s,gonch,t-shirt‘s all in zip lock bag‘s and as some do put a garbage bag in
the main compartment of your ruck and put everything inside as mother nature will get in if she can.


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## Doug VT

Sure, I used to use garbage bags for the main compartments.  I learned some lessons.  In my battalion we get issued ruck liners like the Americans(but they are the old type?)  I bought some of the stronger rubber lined ones at a surplus store in the states.  
All of my kit in the main compartment is in individual bags, Ziploc and other types(if not transparent, marked!)  Then it‘s all in one of those hazardous waste army orange bags(thick plastic) and then the waterproof ruck liner.
In my valise, the sleeping bag is all together inside my bivi bag and then all rolled up.  Then placed inside another orange bag, then into ruck liner. Then into valise.  I roll it to keep it balanced.  I can also stuff things into the middle or roll things into the middle for easy access, or to be well padded.

I remember my basic/battle school when we had to cram all that extra garbage into my butt pack, there is no way to make it better.  It will be a monstrosity until you are allowed to pack what you want.  You could however roll up your rain gear and attach it to the top of you pack with bungee cord.  That might give you a little more precious space back.


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## portcullisguy

Some great ideas, thanks a lot guys!  Our first outdoor weekend on this course will be later in November, at Borden, and I suspect the weather will probably be sh*t by then.  The garbage bags, etc., will definitely help.  On second look, the ruck bag and valise don‘t really look so waterproof, so these tips will come in handy.

As for the small pack, I think I‘ll leave the complete rain suit in for now, and then probably bungee the jacket only to the top after I am done basic, and toss the pants in the ruck.

Once I get a bivy bag, do I get rid of the sleeping bag outer?  I have two kit lists, one from this course, and one from steadfast warrior, and neither mention carrying a sleeping bag outer, but one or both mention the bivy bag.

Thanks again!


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## Harry

Port,

Heres a little story.  Many (and I mean many) moons ago, we had a little patrolling exercise we deployed on for five days.  Leading up the weather was nice, REAL NICE.  We only had fighting order, and being a keener, I took my parka outer, just in case, night sentry can be a bore.  I also rolled my ground sheet up nice and tight and bungied it to my butt pack (the days before the Ranger blanket).

Never thinking it would get COLD, no one and I mean no one took a fart sack, or anything even remotely similar.  Incidently, it snowed our first night out, who whudda thunk.

On the upside, you can cram four grown men into a zipped up ground sheet with a parka outer os the leg warmer.  Our section was the only one that actually met all our objectives and never froze.  

Me, I was a hero, until the next ex, Winter Warfare that is, when I almost blew up our tent.  But that‘s another story...

My point, be prepared, and unlike the Boy Scouts, they have trained leaders,


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## Jarnhamar

Range control has a weather machine.

Heres a little trick.
Things are heavy. Make friends with whoever works in with the CQ and give them your nuke bag or kit bag full of goodies to hold and when you go into a hide if the truck shows up your set.


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## Pikache

Oh, and roll everything. You can fit more stuff that way.

And I got my bivy bag when I was issued my kit. Am I merely lucky?


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## Korus

Yeah, lots of people are having trouble getting bivvy bags....
Heck, I had trouble getting a sleeping bag for my BMQ.. In the end I got one, and it made a nice pillow during our very brief field ex on that course. :biggrin:


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## Superman

Im off to BMQ this summer and so far I have all my kit issued.. Im trying to pack everything and find out where to put things before I leave so I dont look like a complete tool. The thing im having the most trouble with is the sleeping bag.. How can you make the inner sleeping bag and outer sleeping bag fit together and have them roll up small enough to fit anywhere. Ive heared some stuff about the valise, what is it for? Any info would be great


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## combat_medic

If you‘re going on course this summer, only bring your outer sleeping and MAYBE your liner (if you have a ranger blanket, bring that instead). Stuff that into your valise, but don‘t roll it up. If you roll it, you put too much stress on the fabric, and it will tear more easily. Just stuff it all in, close it up and squish all the air out (squeeze it, sit on it) and it will get compact enough that you can carry more kit. 

With careful packing, you can fit all layers of sleeping kit with bivy bag, ranger blanket and a pillow in that valise. 

As for packing it all, don‘t worry too much about it; it‘s one of the first things they teach you. Each course is different, each standard is different, so just pack it however they tell you to pack it. Once you‘re done your courses and have more experience, you‘ll find a preference and work accordingly.


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## Fusaki

> I might post some pictures from around the company of different guys rucks.


Please do, Doug.

To add my own .02, Powerbars are awsome in the field. They‘re easy to eat on the move, taste better then IMPs, and when combined with half a canteen of water they make a noticable difference on your energy level.


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## Doug VT

wow, this was an old thread.  I guess I should get around to taking some pictures.  Most will probably be of my own ruck though.  Since we‘re only doing light PT for the next couple weeks(lots of drill coming up!)


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## Spr.Earl

> Originally posted by Doug:
> [qb] wow, this was an old thread.  I guess I should get around to taking some pictures.  Most will probably be of my own ruck though.  Since we‘re only doing light PT for the next couple weeks(lots of drill coming up!) [/qb]


Dog and Pony coming up Doug?


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## scm77

Doug, in your original post in this thread (the one with the winter kit list) how much would all that stuff weigh?  Just curious.


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## Doug VT

We have a "Trooping of The Colours" coming up in Ottawa, and a change of command shortly after.

The actual list probably weighs around 60+ lbs.  Once you take out all the crap you don‘t need, and add the "operational" stuff, it‘s usually around 80 lbs!


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## Bill Smy

It‘s interesting to compare this discussion with the kit the ordinary soldier of the 13th Battalion when it crossed over to France in 1915. On 10 February, the battalion did the last packing of kit in preparation for departure for France. The scale approved for the men was: 

	Trews â â€œ 1 pair;	Drawers â â€œ 1 pair;		Undershirt â â€œ 1;	Shirt â â€œ 1;			Towels â â€œ 2; Hold-all â â€œ1 (soap, razor, etc);Balaclava â â€œ 1; Socks â â€œ 3 pair; Boots â â€œ 1 pair; Housewife â â€œ 1; Greatcoat â â€œ 1; Blanket â â€œ 1; Rubber sheet â â€œ 1; Mess tins â â€œ 1; Haversack â â€œ 1; Rifle â â€œ 1; Ball ammunition â â€œ 150 rounds

The haversack also contained one day's hard ration, tobacco, and personal odds and ends. In 1914 a British hard, or iron, ration for one day consisted of:

	1 lb preserved meat; 12oz biscuit; 		5/8 oz tea; 2 oz sugar;  ½ oz salt; 		3 oz cheese; 1 oz meat extract (2 cubes)


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## Fusaki

> ...Balaclava â â€œ 1; Socks â â€œ 3 pair; Boots â â€œ 1 pair; * Housewife â â€œ 1;*  Greatcoat â â€œ 1; Blanket â â€œ 1; Rubber sheet â â€œ 1; Mess tins â â€œ 1...


I‘m starting to see why everyone complains that the army just isn‘t what it used to be...


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## scm77

Lol, you get to carry your wife around in your ruck!


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## chrisf

Yes. Yes you do.

(It‘s a nickname for a sewing kit in case you‘re wondering)


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## Roger

I agree with Doug. Onething I do is purchase the large freezer zipbags. I then put in one complete change per bag (1 sock, 1 tee-shirt, 1 underwear) that way in the dark I can find a zipbag of dry change. Garbage bags work great but you can get ruck liners from  http://www.wheelersonline.com


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## Devlin

Wow talk about an old thread coming back to life. Chop funny you mention Wheelers, I just ordered the riggers belt from them today. Used my old combat belt to change a fuel filter on an MLVW. Turns out the filter was stronger than the old belt. 

Now you‘ve got me thinking about a ruck liner...hmmm wife won‘t be happy but Wheelers and Visa will be. 

I guess 2 out of 3 ain‘t bad.


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## Farmboy

If you do purchase the ruck liner/ dry bag be sure to use a waterproof spray on it.

 It‘s not as dry as it sounds, however it really beats garbage bags. 

 Mine spent one day out in the pouring rain, on the ground. My tunic had a wet spot on it at the end of the day when I pulled it but that was it.

 Most guys had everything wet from the holes in the garbage bags.


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## D-n-A

I line the main compartment in my ruck with two garbage bags, and everything else with ziploc bags, I haven‘t had any problems yet, but I haven‘t been out in a heavy pour with it yet.


For the valiase(sleeping bag carrier), once you get it packed up, good way to help keep it compressed is the waist belt off the rucksack. After you sit on it, squeeze the valaise an get as much air out and tighten the cords, etc. Get the waist belt, and put it on horizantal. Works well for me.

Also, I cant wait till I get my 64 pattern ruck frame.    :warstory:


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## Redeye

I use a Wheelers dry bag, it‘s the most incredible piece of kit I own, though I was at their store the other day and they seem to sell a different type than mine (which I bought back in 2002).  Inside that I put everything in Ziploc 1-gallon storage bags arranged so I can pull out exactly what I want when I want it.  Usually I have a clean, dry uniform in the bottom, a couple of changes of gitch/tshirt/socks in the middle, and warm clothes and polypro most accessible on top.

I‘m a firm believer that you cannot have too many pairs of dry socks, either - they don‘t take up much space so I jam as many in as is reasonable for how long we‘re going to be away.


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## Bill Smy

Remember what Kipling said in in A Boy Scout‘s Patol Song:-

Look out, when you start for the day
  That your kit is packed to your mind;
There is no use going away             
  With half of it left behind.
Look out that your laces are tight,
  And your boots are easy and stout,
Or you‘ll end with a blister at night.
(Chorus) All Patrols look out!


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## Justinrc

What is Ruck Marching?  I hear people talk about it but have no clue what it is.  And in your Basic how much running do you do, and how long (approx). example. Run once a week for 5 km‘s or run everyday for 2 km or what?
Thanks for your help.

Justin


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## sinblox

Ruck = big backpack with all your kit you need to survive in it.


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## combat_medic

Justin: a ruck march is a long walk with a heavy backback on. It‘s not usually very fast, and they will build you up to it, but it‘s pretty rough on the body. As for running, it will depend on your instructors. If they have lots of time and the inclination, they may take you for runs every day, or every other week.


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## Sh0rtbUs

we did 6 km runs every morning.


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## Mr. Ted

I don‘t know about everyone else, buy my personal favourite form of PT was the ruck march.  I will take long, drawn-out fast marches with heavy packs and a C7 any day over a sprint or quick run.  I hated running, loved ruck marching.

In fact, once you‘ve been marching for a good while, you will hit a nice endorphin rush that tends to pick up your spirits. You get that good feeling when all your kit is packed tight, nothing‘s banging around, your sleeping bag finally isn‘t falling out of your valise every time you move, you realize that your C7 has a slot between the magazine and the trigger guard that fits perfectly over the mag pouch on your webbing - so perfectly in fact, that you can balance it there to stretch out your arms and relax your hands for awhile.  Everyone‘s feet are hitting the ground in unison, you‘re marching beside your buddy, you‘re 5 klicks in with 10 more to go, you‘re doing something none of your lazy friends back home will ever do, the countryside‘s beautiful and you‘re in uniform for the best country in the world.  

Now what could be better than that?

Mr. Ted


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## ab136

Mr. Ted you sound like your really enjoyed that and it sound very appealing to me.  You should be the "poster-guy" for ruck marches.


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## ab136

May-be Molson could do another "I am Canadian" rant with a ruck-march-twist.


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## mattoigta

> Originally posted by Mr. Ted:
> [qb] I don‘t know about everyone else, buy my personal favourite form of PT was the ruck march.  I will take long, drawn-out fast marches with heavy packs and a C7 any day over a sprint or quick run.  I hated running, loved ruck marching.
> 
> In fact, once you‘ve been marching for a good while, you will hit a nice endorphin rush that tends to pick up your spirits. You get that good feeling when all your kit is packed tight, nothing‘s banging around, your sleeping bag finally isn‘t falling out of your valise every time you move, you realize that your C7 has a slot between the magazine and the trigger guard that fits perfectly over the mag pouch on your webbing - so perfectly in fact, that you can balance it there to stretch out your arms and relax your hands for awhile.  Everyone‘s feet are hitting the ground in unison, you‘re marching beside your buddy, you‘re 5 klicks in with 10 more to go, you‘re doing something none of your lazy friends back home will ever do, the countryside‘s beautiful and you‘re in uniform for the best country in the world.
> 
> Now what could be better than that?
> 
> Mr. Ted [/qb]


Yeah I totally agree, and have also come to appreciate the space between the mag housing and pistol grip!


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## revolter

he would be a good spokesman for comercials with ruck marching


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## Wookilar

The stated runs on IAP (officer basic, kind of....) are 5km in about 45 minutes. Timing is very flexible as to frequency as this depends on instructor availability/fatigue/cantankerousness. Also, some staff members run like gazelles with a lion after them, some despise running with the same passion I have. Every course is different, mostly because the staff are different.

If you train 3 days a week and work your way up to 7km in about 50 minutes, you will have very few problems on course. PT wise, at any rate.

For those that think that is fast, in the first line units (GS Battalion does NOT count), 10 km runs in 50 minutes, with push-ups/crunches/lord knows what else mixed in, are not that unusual. They suck, IMHO, but not that unusual.

Oh, and running sucks (Did I mention that already?). I much prefer a nice slow ruck march.

Now, stretcher PT (or its evil cousin, jerry can PT) is a whole different beast  >


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## combat_medic

You may have noticed that this topic is 2 years old. Was there a reason for resurrecting it, as I'm sure the person in question has long since had their question(s) answered.


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## Lost_Warrior

> we did 6 km runs every morning.



Indeed we did.


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## Jonathan

I wasnt really sure where to put this but I think this is good. I am starting to do practcice ruck marches to train for the BMQ this summer. I was wondering the exact weight of the packs they make us wear. I have searched everywhere and can find nothing. Just so you no I am  a reserve, if that changes it. I would also like to know how fast the pace has to be and the distance.

For you people that have already done the reserve BMQ I would appreciate the info.

Thanks


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## George Wallace

I did a SEARCH for you and found this:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23622/post-276951.html#msg276951


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## scoutfinch

I stand to be corrected I do not believe the reserve BMQ has a ruck march.  I do not know about Reg force.


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## Nfld Sapper

Depends on course staff. The course in which I was supporting did have ruck sac marches as part of the their PT schedule.


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## The_Falcon

Jonathan said:
			
		

> I wasnt really sure where to put this but I think this is good. I am starting to do practcice ruck marches to train for the BMQ this summer. I was wondering the exact weight of the packs they make us wear. I have searched everywhere and can find nothing. Just so you no I am  a reserve, if that changes it. I would also like to know how fast the pace has to be and the distance.
> 
> For you people that have already done the reserve BMQ I would appreciate the info.
> 
> Thanks



The weight is what they tell you.  Look at the kit list you were given, specifically all the stuff that is supposed to go in your ruck, start there. Then add some food/water/snivel kit etc.  The pace is what ever the Pl WO/CSM/OC sets, but bear in my mind, since most people at that rank/position have been at this army thing for awhile, thier pace will not be one that most recruits will enjoy (ie no walk in the park, smelling the flowers).  The distance will be whatever they think THEY can accomplish given the time alloted.



			
				scoutfinch said:
			
		

> I stand to be corrected I do not believe the reserve BMQ has a ruck march.  I do not know about Reg force.



The course I was on, and the courses of other in my regiment have been on, or help run, there were ruck marches, no BFTs, but they still did ruck marchs whenever possible.


----------



## Jonathan

thanks, I couldn't find that anywhere. I thought it would be heavier. 22 pounds at the start and 55 pounds by end.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Jonathan said:
			
		

> thanks, I couldn't find that anywhere. I thought it would be heavier. 22 pounds at the start and 55 pounds by end.



Well all your kit may weigh more that 22 pounds, my course we made them strap to their ruck all the defensive stores that I had (i.e. 16lbs sledge hammers, etc), so the weight will vary.


----------



## Centurian1985

Are they still playing around with the concept of the foot-mobile mortar unit?  Back in '89 they had us lugging around the entire mortar kit (tube, stand, plate, and C2, flags, stakes, etc.) bungi-corded onto our rucks as part of 'mobile fire support' ops.  Unless you were lucky to have the C2, you generally added 20+ pounds to your gear..., plus mortar ammo!


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Don't know, but sounds like a JLC/JNCO course of old  ;D


----------



## brandon_g

im doing my bmq right now in borde, and we "had" a reservist with our platoon, but hes gone now.  Our rucks our at least 50 pds, and we never started at 20 pds.


----------



## SHELLDRAKE!!

I suggest you start at 50lbs, go for 3km and work yourself up to 13km. Its better to be in shape and think the walk was a piece of cake than to be moaning about blisters while your on the course.


----------



## Jonathan

yeah, ok I will trian with 50 pounds, when you do your ruck marches is it in a forest path or a flat path


----------



## SHELLDRAKE!!

Train on roads that are paved and roads that are gravel so you will see the way the surfaces feel. I would say that it will be rare that you will do a ruck march through thick woods and steep hills, but if you can walk 13 km on flat ground, you should be in good shape to do it in any scenario.


----------



## blacktriangle

I'm also looking to start training this summer.

My question is, I have an old ruck (64 I think), is it going to be drastically different then what im to be issued?

Thanks


----------



## SHELLDRAKE!!

The only difference is how the load is carried, A ruck is a ruck, you need to get used to walking at a brisk pace for a long distance. Just expect different muscles to be sore depending on what type of ruck you use.


----------



## dardt

On my basic (Reg. Force but I don't know why reserve would be any different) our ruck weight varied between 60-80 lbs. The pace also varied between 8-11 minutes per km. We also did marches in full fighting order which were faster (around 7 min / km) so be prepared for those as well. And don't forget about the rain, if you're doing a march during a downpour you'll have some additional weight to carry. A lot will just depend on your course staff. Have fun


----------



## paracowboy

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33109.0.html

page two.

'bout halfway down.


----------



## Jonathan

????????????????
whats on page 2?


----------



## Proud Canadian

"The pace also varied between 8-11 minutes per km.

crap that is slow (11 minutes per Km) ! I am used to 1 Km per 9 minutes and I am sure some will consider that slow. Try to keep the stride at 128 - 132.


----------



## Shamrock

Short answer:
It don't matter, you gotta carry it anyhow.

Long answer:
Put whatever they tell you to put in it and carry it however long they tell you to.

Potentially helpful answer:


			
				From B-GL-382-003-PT-001 (The Army Fitness Manual) said:
			
		

> Weightload March:
> March a distance of 13 km in full fighting order and field pack (24.5 kg total kit: ie., weapon, Equipment Issue Scale (EIS), helmet, webbing and field pack). Complete the distance in under 2hr 26min 20s. This is equivalent to a pace of 5.33 km/hr. Your perceived exertion will be recorded throughout the march to help monitor your pace and ensure safety.



And a friendly jab:
Reservists will have to carry 85% of the weight 50% of the distance and will be required to tell stories of how it sucked twice as much as anything the regs have done (provided they chose to show up for the training day, otherwise it will only suck as much as a reg force exercise).  

Kenny out


----------



## Lost_Warrior

The Reserve 13k march is as long and the Reg 13k march (who would have thunk?)



> I stand to be corrected I do not believe the reserve BMQ has a ruck march.  I do not know about Reg force.



On my Reserve BMQ, we had 3k, 5k and 6k ruck marches, as well as 1 8k webbing march.

On my SQ, we had a 6k ruck march, an 8k ruck march and a 13k ruck march.

On my DP1, we would on ocasion do 5k ruck marches for PT.

The weight was always decided by the course staff.


----------



## paracowboy

Jonathan said:
			
		

> ????????????????
> whats on page 2?


this:



> Ruckmarch
> The point of marching with a ruck is not to build your strength or endurance - you do better targeting PT (running, callisthenics, and weights) for that. The point of training with a ruck is to teach your body how to carry a ruck. It's called CONDITIONING for a reason. You do it so that your body is conditioned to it. If you try to walk or run with a ruck using the same body mechanics as you do without a ruck, you'll get hurt. The bottom line is that you'll carry heavy rucks for a long time in the Infantry. It may be on forced road marches. It may be in the field. You may have to run with a ruck. Your ruck may weigh 60 lbs, it may weigh 150 lbs. The weight will depend on your mission, but I can guarantee you'll be running with your ruck in the field at some point regardless of how heavy it is. That's just a fact, and all the army's official "No running in combat boots/no running with a ruck on" is bullshit. Plain and simple.
> Take a marathon runner and make him swim a mile in a pool. He has the cardiovascular and muscular endurance to do it, but he doesn't have the technique. He'll be winded after one length. After practice though, his body gets used to the motions and becomes more efficient at it. Pretty soon he can swim the whole mile. Same thing with humping a ruck. The reason you do it is so your body can become efficient at it. You can't learn it in a book (or on a website). You just have to go out and do it. If your knees hurt then try less weight.
> Don't get me wrong, it will always suck. It's weight on your back that wasn't really meant to be there. If you enjoy it, then you are not pushing it nearly hard enough. Ruck marching sucks. That is a universal truth. The only satisfying thing about a ruckmarch is dropping kit at the end. But if you train your body to do it, it will suck less and you'll be less likely to get stress fractures or other injuries from carrying a load your body doesn't know how to carry.
> 
> Carrying it:
> Get'cher ruck up high on your back and tighten those straps. Get rid of the POS ruck the Army gives you, and get a '64 pattern ruck (the so-called 'jump ruck'). Get some A7A straps. Suck everything down tight. A tight load is a light load. Use your waist belt. Get the weight down onto your hips, and off of your shoulders. All the weight should rest on your hips. The shoulder straps are just there to keep the weight in close to your body. You do not want that weight pulling away from your body, believe me. If you like, you can tighten the waist belt, loosen the shoulder straps, until the pain is too much then tighten the shoulder straps and loosen the waist belt. And change again. It doesn't actually do any good, but it tricks your mind into thinking it helps. Practice is the only key. The only way you can get in shape to hump a ruck is by humpin' a ruck. You'll get used to it. After a couple hunnerd miles you'll start missing it.
> I try to put the extra weight flat against, and centred across my shoulder blades, as high in the ruck as I can get, in the valise if possible. This is a lot more comfortable than having it way down in the bottom of the ruck, pulling you backwards. I always tried to put the heaviest stuff in between the frame and the valise, such as mortar rounds, sand bags, etc. Eventually though, when you get to BN, you're going to have your ruck packed with mission-essential kit . Expect to be carrying all the extra accessories that you're responsible for, rations, ammo, water, batteries, etc. Then, on top of that, you'll have your body armour attached to the outside of your ruck, which makes sort of an experiment in Physics, when you start to contemplate gravity and how much heavier something feels when it is strapped to your body, yet is still 3 feet away from your back. (Ya know, leverage, and such.)
> Now, your pace: Well, the minimum standard is a 13 km ruckmarch completed in 2 hours, 26 minutes. On regular morning PT, you don't go quite as far, but you usually go much faster. On an advance to contact, you may go a little slower, but that just means that you're carrying that sumbitchin' weight on your back for that much longer. It just means, that at every halt, you're taking a knee and getting back up with that 60, or 80, or 120 lbs on your back. When humpin' cross-country you may go slower, but now you're goin' through woods so thick, you can barely squeeze that ruck through them. You're wadin' through swamps and rivers. You're twistin' your ankle at every second step, and slippin' down slopes. And the entire time, you'd best not make a damn sound, and you'd damn sure better be keepin' your head up and watching your arcs. You'd better be passin' the count up, and signals back.  It's easy on PT - put'cher head down and give 'er. It's a whole different world in the field with a Light Infantry Company.
> Don't run. There is no need for you wannabe's to run with a ruck, yet. You won't do it in Basic, and it will just cause you to injure yourself, setting your training back. Ruck faster, or with someone else who is faster, till your body learns to carry the weight, and either take longer steps, or more of them.
> 
> Starting out:
> Put sand bags in the ruck. Failing that, buy bags of kitty litter, top soil, or dry cement. Steer clear of free weights, especially dumbbells. Free weights and rocks hurt. While marching they'll eventually become unbalanced, shift, and the ruck march will quickly become a self-inflicted torture session. So not only are you in unbearable pain, but you also realize what a dumbass you are at the same time. It doesn't help motivation too much. For you wannabe's, stick with sandbags or the like. They'll mould themselves your back more easily, and make it easier for you to learn how to hump. No need to add extra misery by throwing in pointed items, or solid stuff that'll just dig in. Sand bags are easier to work with, too. You can get several with different weights, label them, and use them as needed.
> 35 pounds is fine right now for your first time rucking. Take it slow. Work your way up slowly but steadily. Your goal should be about 60 lbs. When you can hump a 60 lb ruck for a couple hours at a good pace, you're pretty well at standard. Anything Basic or Battle School throws your way will be fairly easy to cope with. Don't just ruck up and start humpin' either. Make sure you're wearing comfortable, broken-in footwear. Two pairs of socks, etc, all the little tips I passed on earlier in this thread. Now, start light, start slow, and start easy. Just a few klicks is good, say 3 or 4. Work your way up in weight and distance. For the love of Pete, don't run out and throw 100 lbs in a backpack and try to run for 5 klicks! Or even put 25 lbs in, and run. Baby steps. Start short, slow, and light, and work up to long, fast, and heavy. If you screw up, and are say, 10 klicks into your walk when you notice significant blistering, I hope you have a cell phone. You will screw up your feet for at least a week by walking back.
> 
> Form:
> If it's pulling you backwards, you need to lean forward some. Maybe you need to re-arrange the weight load. You may have the heavier stuff to low, or too far out from the body. Either that, or start going with a little less weight. It's about giving yourself a workout, learning to hump, and conditioning the body, not looking cool while doing it. Trust me, there is no way to look cool when humpin' a ruck. LCF is low, almost negative. Humping a ruck sucks ass, always has, always will.
> Relax the upper body completely. From your shoulders to your fingertips, relax your entire arm. Don't tense your shoulders. Let them relax. Once the shoulder straps have bitten far enough into your trapezius, you won't feel them anymore, anyway. Let your arms swing naturally, don't force them, unless you need to pick up speed. Swinging your arms makes many people faster. I have seen guys go faster when they picked up a weapon for the walk, because when they held it with both hands, they swung into the rhythm. Lean forward slightly, but not too far. Use that to generate 'momentum'. Let your feet skim the ground, and place your feet down, don't drive the heel in. Reach from the hips and let the legs carry you along.
> You need to train your body how to carry a ruck. Everything from the forward lean, to the position of your head, to how your carry your weapon, to how high you lift your feet, to how long your stride is - all of that falls into place over time. Miles and miles (and miles and miles and miles). At first it will hurt because you're putting your heels down too hard, or your stride is too long, or you're tensing your shoulders more than you need to - but after many miles of rucking it becomes more natural. You break your body in. You throw a ruck on your back and your body naturally assumes a rucking position. Your pace and gait changes to what it should be with a ruck on your back. Your motions become smoother so the ruck doesn't bounce as much.
> 
> Feet:
> Take care of your feet. They can make or break you. Nothing sucks more than having the desire to complete the mission and having your feet bleeding, cracked, and infected. Your feet serve to support you and your load, absorb shock, and to provide balance and forward motion. Your feet need to be tough, yet getting them there means they have to be protected, and cared for. This is achieved by rucking in well broken-in, but not broken-down boots, by monitoring your feet's status, and knowing how to care for them when problems arise.
> Rotate different pairs of boots or running shoes from day to day. Make sure that the boots are comfortable, getting the proper insoles or orthotics as required. Sizing is also critical. Try on new boots with the socks you intend to wear. Get them slightly large, as most people's feet will swell a half size or so on extended walks. Socks are just as important. Wear new, clean, correctly sized socks. They will help absorb some of the punishment, and thin, ratty, old socks do little to assist in protecting your feet. (I know some of this is repeated, but it bears repeating, so listen up.) When breaking in your new boot or shoes, use them for shorter walks. They're going to hurt.
> As you break in your boots, you will notice painful "hot spots" forming. Stop and treat them as soon as the pain becomes noticeable. Any hot spot areas starting to redden should be closely monitored, and moleskin applied as needed. An experienced Medic is probably the best source for advice. While rucking, you should plan on stopping for a break for five or ten minutes every hour or so. Do not waste that time sitting on your ruck. Take the ruck off, take your boots off, and examine your feet. If they look good, let them air out for a minute or so, powder them, and change socks. Once you have started to blister, you will lose training time waiting for them to heal. Do not let them get that bad.
> Never ruck with wet feet. Even well-conditioned feet are vulnerable and soft after a good soaking. Do not try to combine training activities (like swimming and rucking), and carry a spare pair of boots and several pairs of socks to change into should the ones you are wearing become soaked. (Now this doesn't hold when you get Battalion. You WILL march with wet feet. Deal with it.)
> Areas of your feet that get a lot of friction and contact will start to harden and calluses will form over time. This is a good thing. The dead material of the callus will absorb the friction and impact that would hurt the skin on your feet. Soon enough, your feet will become the leathery flippers that all infantrymen have. I've seen some guys hold lighters to their feet, the callus was so thick. Most people find that issue boots will cause calluses to form on the balls of the feet, the heel, and on the outside of the foot, depending on the contact points of the boots on your feet.
> As you walk, the boots and your feet will develop a symbiotic relationship. The boots will soften and begin to flex where required, and the contact points on your feet will toughen up. Eventually, your boots will be almost as comfortable as a pair of slippers, and your feet will be tough as nails. You will need to keep your nails trimmed properly to prevent injury or damage. But that, and foot powder will be all the maintenance you will require. Even if you walk long distances in combat boots your feet will blister, however, and you may even lose feeling in your feet.


 this is now the 3rd time I've pointed this thread out to you. I've even done so, in the freakin' thread in question! You had best stop with the hand-holding crap and start doing some research.

There will not be a 4th time.


----------



## xxmixkexx

me and a friend did 20k in 3 and a 1/2 hours with a 30 pound pack of sand 
is this good enough for light infantry?
should i focus on improving this or other things?
thanks in advance


----------



## dustinm

xxmixkexx said:
			
		

> me and a friend did 20k in 3 and a 1/2 hours with a 30 pound pack of sand
> is this good enough for light infantry?
> should i focus on improving this or other things?
> thanks in advance



Before another member posts with the wonderful multicoloured boilerplate (which is indeed a good thing; take it to heart and read it all, please!), I'll tell you this: you should probably do a search. I did a quick Army.ca and google search and pulled up the following links:

Training for the ruck march: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29989.0.html
How about a ruck march?: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/799.0.html
Shinsplints, blisters, and PT: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33109.0.html

Ruck march time you should strive for: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55598/post-508946.html#msg508946
And the rest of that thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55598/post-508946.html


----------



## xxmixkexx

thanks for the links
but i could not find anything on once you are in
i am not worried a bout the test i just want to make the actual army a bit easier


----------



## TCBF

xxmixkexx said:
			
		

> ... i just want to make the actual army a bit easier



- Been tried.  Forget it.


----------



## xxmixkexx

TCBF said:
			
		

> - Been tried.  Forget it.



ya i know it will not be easy
i just want to have some advantages when i go in


----------



## stealthylizard

Want an advantage?  Be in the best all round shape you can be, especially cardio.  They will build you up to your 13k BFT in BMQ.


----------



## Celticgirl

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> Want an advantage?  Be in the best all round shape you can be, especially cardio.  They will build you up to your 13k BFT in BMQ.



I'm so glad you said that. You don't know how many people have advised me to put some weight in a backpack and do practice marches before BMOQ. (None of these advisors are soldiers, it should be pointed out.) My feeling is that I don't want to do *anything* that will cause any strain or injury to my body prior to going to St. Jean. No thanks! My backpack is NOT a rucksack! I'll continue to work out in other ways and let the staff at CFLRS build me up, as you say, to the 13k BFT...with the proper equipment.


----------



## ARMY_101

xxmixkexx said:
			
		

> ya i know it will not be easy
> i just want to have some advantages when i go in



The best advantage you can have is to continue doing your own training.  20km in 3.5 hours seems alright.  All members of the Army need to qualify with a Battle Fitness Test on a yearly basis, which is a 13km ruck march in under 2.5 hours with just under 40 pounds in your ruck, followed by a 100m fireman carry and a shell scrape for a trench.  You need to be marching at about 5km per hour for your BFT, so your pace is fairly close.

You can't make the Army any easier, only more comfortable or livable


----------



## ARMY_101

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I'm so glad you said that. You don't know how many people have advised me to put some weight in a backpack and do practice marches before BMOQ. (None of these advisors are soldiers, it should be pointed out.) My feeling is that I don't want to do *anything* that will cause any strain or injury to my body prior to going to St. Jean. No thanks! My backpack is NOT a rucksack! I'll continue to work out in other ways and let the staff at CFLRS build me up, as you say, to the 13k BFT...with the proper equipment.



It's true that you don't want to be injuring yourself before even beginning training, but at least trying to build yourself up wouldn't hurt.  Doing a small amount of weight in your bag wouldn't be a bad thing.  Even just walking 13km with a backpack of school books would give you some advantage to knowing the distance.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Want an advantage for basic?  Here's a little secret that nobody knows.  Run, lots.  Also do pushups, situps, and chinups, lots.  Lift heavy things.  Then do it all again, and again.  There, one magical secret revealed.


----------



## PMedMoe

ARMY_101 said:
			
		

> a 13km ruck march in *under 2.5 hours with just under 40 pounds in your ruck*, followed by a 100m fireman carry and a shell scrape for a trench.



To be (more) exact, it's 2 hours, 26 minutes and with 24.5 kg total weight (which includes all clothing/equipment).  Also, not all areas have the trench dig as part of the test as they do not have the equipment (boxes of gravel).

BFT Training & Testing


----------



## ARMY_101

I found the extra four minutes to be enough to state just under 2.5 hours, and with 24.5kg in total there would be about 30-40 pounds in your ruck.  ("All equipment" includes helmet, rifle, boots, and clothing, correct?)


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Want an advantage for basic?  Here's a little secret that nobody knows.  Run, lots.  Also do pushups, situps, and chinups, lots.  Lift heavy things.  Then do it all again, and again.  There, one magical secret revealed.



Yea, well now you've gone and done it.......


----------



## PMedMoe

ARMY_101 said:
			
		

> I found the extra four minutes to be enough to state just under 2.5 hours, and with 24.5kg in total there would be about 30-40 pounds in your ruck.  ("All equipment" includes helmet, rifle, boots, and clothing, correct?)



Yes, it does.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

xxmixkexx said:
			
		

> me and a friend did 20k in 3 and a 1/2 hours with a 30 pound pack of sand
> is this good enough for light infantry?
> should i focus on improving this or other things?
> thanks in advance



Go here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=gallery&g2_itemId=39865 and dowload the Army Fitness Manual. It has everything you require to get ready including workups and schedules. It has the requirements for the BFT and all the other 'stuff'. One stop shopping.

However, before you read that and go galavanting through the hills like Heidi, take time to read the Site Guidelines (which you agreed to do, but obviously didn't, when you joined).

Lots of neat stuff there too. Like how we expect you to use capitalization and punctuation, amongst other things, and includes the Warning System for failure to follow said guidelines, if you get the drift 

Welcome to Army.ca.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## xxmixkexx

thanks a lot for all the help


----------



## jacksparrow

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I'm so glad you said that. You don't know how many people have advised me to put some weight in a backpack and do practice marches before BMOQ. (None of these advisors are soldiers, it should be pointed out.) My feeling is that I don't want to do *anything* that will cause any strain or injury to my body prior to going to St. Jean. No thanks! My backpack is NOT a rucksack! I'll continue to work out in other ways and let the staff at CFLRS build me up, as you say, to the 13k BFT...with the proper equipment.



The ruck march is easy, just use longer strides and try not to run to catch up if you find yourself in that situation where you are falling back. Actually before you go on the 13k march, there is a 3k and 6k one that we did, the 6k one involved the fireman carry before we started the march and we did the same thing after the 13k march in farnham.

Oh there is also a trench dig that you have to do. My platoon finished the 13k ruck march in 2hrs. We are all the weaker people in front and the rest of us at the back. Our staff were entertaining all the way, and we didn't feel a thing.


----------



## Redeye

The trick lies in learning how to lengthen the stride - but it comes with time.  Realistically, the BFT is not hard, unless the terrain really sucks.  At the Infantry School this summer rumour has it they had a competition to find the worst route possible in terms of massive hills, and it seems they succeeded.

As long as you're well hydrated, you ruck's packed well, and you know how to take care of your feet it's really just a good paced walk.  If you have someone to talk to while you do it or something that gets your mind off the task at hand it's nothing to sweat.  You'll get worked up to it the first time and then wonder why you were so worried.



			
				jacksparrow said:
			
		

> The ruck march is easy, just use longer strides and try not to run to catch up if you find yourself in that situation where you are falling back. Actually before you go on the 13k march, there is a 3k and 6k one that we did, the 6k one involved the fireman carry before we started the march and we did the same thing after the 13k march in farnham.
> 
> Oh there is also a trench dig that you have to do. My platoon finished the 13k ruck march in 2hrs. We are all the weaker people in front and the rest of us at the back. Our staff were entertaining all the way, and we didn't feel a thing.


----------



## Pea

I always complete the ruck marches we do as a group, but I find I still have a hard time keeping the pace. At basically 5 foot 0 I stretch my stride as much as I can (without doing the splits) and I just barely keep the pace of my staff. (I'm always at the front since I'm the small one) In time do you think this will get better, or is it a height thing and I'll just have to suffer through it and shuffle when needed?


----------



## missmague

Hey MediPea - I am 5'4" and I used to date a guy who was 6'2" -  he used to tell me to slow down ALL the time because my stride was much longer than his - so I don't think it is automatically a height challenged thing. I know that is not much help, but there is obviously a way. It might just been that I do everything fast (my mother says I was born impatient cause labour was so quick lol) - but if I can do it I am sure you can get there too  ;D


----------



## Pea

There's a difference between stretching your stride and moving fast though. I can keep up no problem when I shuffle or walk ridiculosuly fast, however when doing that you tire yourself out pretty quickly on a ruckmarch. Stretching your stride is so you can still walk at that slower pace and not tire yourself out as quickly. (or else you might as well run the whole thing)

I'm a fast walker in general as well and often get told to slow down by friends. However, it really hasn't helped in the ruck marching department.


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

So do they start off right at the 13k ruck march or do they start off smaller and work you up to that during basic?


----------



## aesop081

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> So do they start off right at the 13k ruck march or do they start off smaller and work you up to that during basic?



They start with 32Km.....if you can do that, then 13Km wont be a problem. Thats the philosophy.


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

32km??? you mean 3.2km?


----------



## HItorMiss

No he said what he meant *32KM*


----------



## aesop081

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> 32km??? you mean 3.2km?



32....thirty-two


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

That's a pretty long ruck march and I'm sure if you can do 32km, 13 would not be a problem


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> The ruck march is easy, just use longer strides and try not to run to catch up if you find yourself in that situation where you are falling back. Actually before you go on the 13k march, there is a 3k and 6k one that we did, the 6k one involved the fireman carry before we started the march and we did the same thing after the 13k march in farnham.




Maybe I should start reading before I post lol 32km my ***


----------



## PMedMoe

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> Maybe I should start reading before I post lol 32km my ***



Maybe you should.


----------



## dangerboy

32 km marches were all the rage in the early 90's. There is a famous story of a BN stationed out of Work Point Barracks that did one through a park after an exercise.  The troops not being stupid decided to lose some weight out off there rucksacks, stuff like belts of blank 7.62 ammo and other heavy stuff. It hit the papers and some people did not seem to think it was to funny.


----------



## aesop081

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> Maybe I should start reading before I post



Ya think ?


----------



## SoldierInTheMaking

Sorry guys I've learned my lesson from now on I will read before I post any questions.


----------



## PanaEng

MediPea said:
			
		

> There's a difference between stretching your stride and moving fast though. I can keep up no problem when I shuffle or walk ridiculosuly fast, however when doing that you tire yourself out pretty quickly on a ruckmarch. Stretching your stride is so you can still walk at that slower pace and not tire yourself out as quickly. (or else you might as well run the whole thing)
> 
> I'm a fast walker in general as well and often get told to slow down by friends. However, it really hasn't helped in the ruck marching department.


The key is to find your happy medium. 
We had a sigs Sgt way back that was not much more than 5' 3" yet he could move with the best - his stride was obviously shorter but his pace was wicked.
And the only way to do that is with practise.


----------



## Raylee

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I'm so glad you said that. You don't know how many people have advised me to put some weight in a backpack and do practice marches before BMOQ. (None of these advisors are soldiers, it should be pointed out.) My feeling is that I don't want to do *anything* that will cause any strain or injury to my body prior to going to St. Jean. No thanks! My backpack is NOT a rucksack! I'll continue to work out in other ways and let the staff at CFLRS build me up, as you say, to the 13k BFT...with the proper equipment.


Probably the best thing you can do besides cardio is to really work your quadriceps and hamstrings. They are the key muscles to propelling you up hills and they are the first muscles on people that give out when they're out of shape. Do lots of walking lunges, squats, phantom chair exercises and leg weights (of course being careful to not over do it). Combined with some good running and incline you should have no problem with ruck sack marches.
Also, another key thing is always always always be really well hydrated (start drinking water days before). It doesn't matter what kind of shape you're in-- if you're dehydrated you will get cramps, you'll feel weak and you'll get winded pretty fast.


----------



## xxmixkexx

I have been working out a fair bit, and after reading this I decided to up the cardio and easy off the weights. Everything is going good so hopefully I will be ready for my BMQ this summer. Thanks for the tips, I guess an admin can close this thread now. Thanks again.


----------



## CorporalMajor

Being hydrated is vitally important ANY TIME you do ANY exercise.  I always carry a small container of water out of necessity when doing anything - I'm a husky guy so I sweat more than others.  In carrying 30-40lbs on you in the sweltering heat, it is no different.  Some people I know bring Orange Juice during ruckmarches because it has sugars that help get them going midway through.  

On Basic Training/SQ, you are ordered to have water on you all the time because you're marching everywhere, standing still in the blazing sun, often doing pushups when said to.  I have heard of people collapsing because they were malnourished or lacked the necessary hydration, and you can not only really hurt yourself, but you will be on charge and defaulters too (bad thing).


----------



## BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny

What song usually pops into your head when you're on a long ruck march?

For me, it's either the Red Wings theme from Final Fantasy 4 or the Troops March On from Final Fantasy 6. Yes I know that sounds geeky as heck, but have a listen and they have a certain feel to them that's great for a march. The orchestrated version of the Red Wings theme seems to almost start off with a "Left-Right-Left" cadence to its snare drums. 

Here's some links to the songs:

Red Wings Theme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iriyIrK9e14

Red Wings Theme (Orchestrated)-more dramatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDgEaq9qAyc

Troops March On:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpb6jOhUrA


----------



## Muttenthaler

On basic, my WO used to sing Barbie Girl to the whole platoon. Then some song about "...enlisted newfoundlanders, come follow me", then he would start singing Great Big Sea...

My mind was gone after 10 k.


----------



## TN2IC

I dare you to sing this one. 

 Really want to piss off your Platoon. Sing this one too.


----------



## Robert0288

I learned not to sing the second one when I was about 5 years old.  The lesson learnt that day wont disappear any time soon.


----------



## BlueJingo

TN2IC said:
			
		

> I dare you to sing this one.
> 
> Really want to piss off your Platoon. Sing this one too.



Both songs are an epic win. Good Job.


----------



## dogger1936

A mp3 of crying babies and men begging for their lifes. ;D


----------



## Mojo Magnum

Sing?  Lenny Welch "Bring it on home to me"
mp3 for Iron Man, the absolute, hands down best tune to Ruck Run to..... Ozzy Osbourne - I don't Wanna Stop!!  Try it, you'll like it


----------



## daftandbarmy

Singing? I thought you were supposed to keep your mouth shut, eyes peeled, and C7 in the shoulder on rock and roll?  :evilrifle:


----------



## klink1983

The dinosaurs in the Regieme I work under do not allow music.


----------



## PMedMoe

klink1983 said:
			
		

> The dinosaurs in the Regieme I work under do not allow music.



The "dinosaurs" in your Regime can probably spell, though.   :


----------



## Maxadia

mp3's???  WTH???

They're marching with iPods now?   ??? ??? ???


----------



## Thompson_JM

I just use the same music on my Shuffle that I do for going to the Gym... High energy motivational stuff...



			
				RDJP said:
			
		

> mp3's???  WTH???
> 
> They're marching with iPods now?   ??? ??? ???



BFT's get pretty boring otherwise....   Sure it can be done without... But a little music does make it a bit better....


----------



## Journeyman

Tommy said:
			
		

> BFT's get pretty boring otherwise....


As the Army becomes increasingly constrained by cubicles and computers, you'd be amazed at the connections you make, and what you can learn, whether you're rucking beside Pte Bloggins or Col Flagg.


ps: My grandmother once told me that "boredom is the sign of a weak mind."  Fitness is part of the job -- it's up to you whether you're bored or not.   :nod:


----------



## mycocobean

TN2IC said:
			
		

> I dare you to sing this one.
> 
> Really want to piss off your Platoon. Sing this one too.



If you play them both at the same time its really weird


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Muttenthaler said:
			
		

> On basic, my WO used to sing Barbie Girl to the whole platoon. Then some song about "...enlisted newfoundlanders, come follow me", then he would start singing Great Big Sea...
> 
> My mind was gone after 10 k.



Great Big Sea - Recruiting Sergeant A tribute to The Blue Puttees.

_- mod edited to fix link -_


----------



## Redeye

Few years ago a bunch of officers from the Hasty Ps went out on a "teambuilding" PT day including a ruck march. The guy driving the safety vehicle proudly announced he had burned a CD for the walk he played from the van he followed us in.  It included The Proclaimers - 500 Miles and The Tea Party - Walking Wounded. And several other songs in a similar vein I can't remember.


----------



## PJGary

A perfect tune to step off to: Black Label Society - Fire it up

However I don't mind just chatting, even though the conversation usually ends up regarding some type of food  ;D


----------



## Rogo

We sang a few things for a short bit of time during out BFT this summer in sunny St-Jean but the recurring theme was Taylor Swift.  Don't judge.  ;D


----------



## ArmyRick

Music? If its a BFT, which I did one yesterday, the music is the feet hitting the ground.

If marching with rucks in the field? No music except the chatter of the PRR or radios.


----------



## rmc_wannabe

I remember singing this one once on a ruck....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

 ;D


----------



## blacktriangle

I prefer pre-dawn or night marches so that no one cares about my high speed boots, unbloused pants, gucci gloves and Ipod...

Music wise, I am all about the Tool or other hard rock while on the march...Rammstein isn't bad either.


----------



## lethalLemon

PJGary said:
			
		

> A perfect tune to step off to: Black Label Society - Fire it up
> 
> However I don't mind just chatting, even though the conversation usually ends up regarding some type of food  ;D



Or attractive women  ;D


----------



## The Bread Guy

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I remember singing this one once on a ruck....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ
> 
> ;D


Mili-trivia:  This is reportedly what the lads were singing while waiting for rescue from the sinking HMS Sheffield in the Falklands War.


----------



## PanaEng

metronome!
nuff said.


----------



## Robert0288

I think a metronome would actually be a good idea.  Better than checking my watch every 500m to make sure I'm still on pace.  Although it would probably boost the insanity level through the roof after an hour or so of constant ticking.


----------



## Redeye

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> I think a metronome would actually be a good idea.  Better than checking my watch every 500m to make sure I'm still on pace.  Although it would probably boost the insanity level through the roof after an hour or so of constant ticking.



I use Motion-X on my iPhone - pumps my playlist through my earphones with an occasional update on pacing.


----------



## BDTyre

RDJP said:
			
		

> mp3's???  WTH???
> 
> They're marching with iPods now?   ??? ??? ???



On my last BFT there was a new-ish guy that took a business call on his phone....


----------



## godeep

God forbid any of you have to pull yourselves away from your funky-fresh tunes to assist and motivate anyone else on this march of yours. as standards are reduced and have now become the norm, so has the lack of professional and mental discipline demonstrated by soldiers. last i knew we trained as we fight......hope some of you have no infantry/combat ambitions. Timmy doesn't train to music.


----------



## aesop081

godeep said:
			
		

> last i knew we trained as we fight......



I don't think we are going to fight the way we run BFTs..................


----------



## PMedMoe

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I don't think we are going to fight the way we run BFTs..................



 :rofl:  I certainly hope not.


----------



## OldSolduer

godeep said:
			
		

> God forbid any of you have to pull yourselves away from your funky-fresh tunes to assist and motivate anyone else on this march of yours. as standards are reduced and have now become the norm, so has the lack of professional and mental discipline demonstrated by soldiers. last i knew we trained as we fight......hope some of you have no infantry/combat ambitions. Timmy doesn't train to music.



Begging your pardon, sir, this is the 21st Century. We don't "BFT" to contact. We advance to contact without music.
We used to sing on marches in 1975. It was great fun and built morale. 
Personally, I could care less if a troop uses his /her iPod on marches so long as they are not part of a formed body of troops. Once  you are fallen in the iPods are verboten. On your own - go for it.


----------



## Jarnhamar

godeep said:
			
		

> God forbid any of you have to pull yourselves away from your funky-fresh tunes to assist and motivate anyone else on this march of yours. as standards are reduced and have now become the norm, so has the lack of professional and mental discipline demonstrated by soldiers. last i knew we trained as we fight......hope some of you have no infantry/combat ambitions.




On the anvil of war are the strong tempered and the weak made to break;
thus are men's souls tested as metal in the forges fire. 
As steel is tempered by fire-so too are men tempered by suffering.




> Timmy doesn't train to music.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml1WnYI3-ik


----------



## Gulruthina

This song is pretty neat for marching. Its from Command and Conquer Red Alert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-gI_pFog0&feature=fvst


----------



## MMSS

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> This song is pretty neat for marching. Its from Command and Conquer Red Alert
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-gI_pFog0&feature=fvst



A buddy of mine and I played the hell out of C&C back in junior high/high school. The soundtrack from those first few games was epic.


----------



## SuperbusServitium

However I don't mind just chatting, even though the conversation usually ends up regarding some type of food  ;D
[/quote]

Really, eh? Without fail, it DOES always turn to food. What's that about, I wonder?


----------



## Bluebulldog

SuperbusServitium said:
			
		

> However I don't mind just chatting, even though the conversation usually ends up regarding some type of food  ;D
> 
> 
> Really, eh? Without fail, it DOES always turn to food. What's that about, I wonder?



Food, women or cars......seems to never fail......

Last guy I was on a BFT with who started talking about food got firmly told to shut it.......breakfast was still a long way off.......


----------



## Thompson_JM

Couple of the guys this past weekend were hurting bad... One was fighting a flu, the other one hurt his ankle partway through the march.... As they came up on the final stretch Gangnam Style started playing on the Safety vehicle Radio, and we pulled up beside them and cranked the music. Motivated em enough to finish strong at the end.  ;D

http://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0


----------



## yakherder

Anyone read the book "The Long Walk" by Stephen King?  I just imagine I'm one of those kids.

I don't listen to music when I'm tactical though, bad habit, even if it's a simulation.  Perhaps things are different now (i hear you're allowed to sleep in boot camp from time to time now ), but I imagine if I even pulled out an ipod during a ruck march I'd probably end up with an ass chewing or a counseling.


----------



## PanaEng

I like music while working out at the gym but out on the roads and trails I never wear earphones:
2 things: I'm paranoid - someone is always trying to sneak up on me - and safety, a car, bike, dog, bear or your GF's ex could be approaching and you don't hear them bc you got Justin Bieber on your ear.
When I'm in a group I'm always chatting or listening to the conversation or just my heartbeat and boots pounding/shufelling (every day is shufelling) - if someone breaks into song that's great.

CHIMO!


----------



## Smirnoff123

SuperbusServitium said:
			
		

> However I don't mind just chatting, even though the conversation usually ends up regarding some type of food  ;D
> 
> 
> Really, eh? Without fail, it DOES always turn to food. What's that about, I wonder?



This is all the time, not just during BFTs. However the details are generally more specific.


----------



## Terry2124

Rammstein gets me thru my workout


----------



## AmphibousAssult

Here's how I get through mine-

Step 1: Find most opinionated Cpl in Platoon

Step 2: Pose loaded question, or generate offhand comment, for example "Man do I love issued boots" or "We should do BFTs way more regularly, this is great training"

Step 3: Enjoy


----------



## OldSolduer

Marksman said:
			
		

> Here's how I get through mine-
> 
> Step 1: Find most opinionated Cpl in Platoon
> 
> Step 2: Pose loaded question, or generate offhand comment, for example "Man do I love issued boots" or "We should do BFTs way more regularly, this is great training"
> 
> Step 3: Enjoy


Oh you are good.  ;D


----------



## Steno360

Is there a ref: out there that will help me prevent troops from overheating during ruck marches in hot climates ie: dress on the march ( unblousing of cmbt pants , unbuttoning of cmbt shirt sleeves) I could really use the help as I'm in the make sence cornner and I need some admistrative Ammo.

also to add it will be a 25 km march 29 May 2015 in GRN Petawawa and it may be hot.

Cheers


----------



## PMedMoe

As a PMed Tech, I've never been in support of not blousing trousers properly due to it potentially increasing the amount of skin exposed for insect bites and for prime areas for ticks to attach themselves to.  Just my  :2c:

As far as avoiding overheating, best suggestions are: Pers should hydrate themselves before, during and after the march and if possible, the marches should take place at times of the day when the temperature is lower (e.g. early or late in the day).

But yeah, common sense seems to go right out the window sometimes.  I recall a unit doing a rucksack march _after_ a sports day.    :not-again:


----------



## Infanteer

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm21_18.pdf

The US wrote a PAM, but not the Canadian Army.

The biggest thing is for commanders to balance force protection vs threat.  Unbuttoning shirt sleeves makes sense if you are in an administrative posture, but not if you are in a potential threat area due to risk of flash burns/wounds to exposed skin.

Edit to Add:  The biggest factor is march discipline.  We have a silly concept of ruckmarching in the Army, created by the BFT, which is "go as fast as you can, burn your feet out, and have oranges halfway through the 13km".  I've taken soldiers with more weight through dozens of kilometers of terrain through proper march discipline, which includes programmed halts and distribution of heavier equipment (try adding a C6 tripod to your load....).



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> As a PMed Tech, I've never been in support of not blousing trousers properly due to it potentially increasing the amount of skin exposed for insect bites and for prime areas for ticks to attach themselves to.  Just my  :2c:



That's what the inner dust covers are for.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Infanteer said:
			
		

> That's what the inner dust covers are for.



Which, if properly worn, defeat the purpose of unblousing the pants for ventilation.


----------



## PMedMoe

Infanteer said:
			
		

> That's what the inner dust covers are for.



If the wearer hasn't already removed them.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> Which, if properly worn, defeat the purpose of unblousing the pants for ventilation.



But there are small openings between the pantleg and dust covers.


----------



## Infanteer

recceguy said:
			
		

> Which, if properly worn, defeat the purpose of unblousing the pants for ventilation.



Not really, as you reduce from two layers to one layer, plus eliminate boot bands which restrict circulation.


----------



## OldSolduer

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Not really, as you reduce from two layers to one layer, plus eliminate boot bands which restrict circulation.



Bingo!


----------



## daftandbarmy

Steno360 said:
			
		

> Is there a ref: out there that will help me prevent troops from overheating during ruck marches in hot climates ie: dress on the march ( unblousing of cmbt pants , unbuttoning of cmbt shirt sleeves) I could really use the help as I'm in the make sence cornner and I need some admistrative Ammo.
> 
> also to add it will be a 25 km march 29 May 2015 in GRN Petawawa and it may be hot.
> 
> Cheers



Having done way too much of this stuff in the past the best advice I can provide is to start early. Really early if it's summer, like 0400hrs or something. And don't wear helmets or body armour if you have the choice.

I'll assume that you will have the ability to incrementally work folks up to a 25km distance, so won't go on and on and on about the right way to build people up for these things.

Good luck!


----------



## PMedMoe

Steno360 said:
			
		

> also to add it will be a *25 km* march 29 May 2015 in GRN Petawawa and it may be hot.



Is this Ironman workup training or something?  Otherwise, I gotta ask: What the fuck for?   ???


----------



## ballz

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Is this Ironman workup training or something?  Otherwise, I gotta ask: What the frig for?   ???



I'm guessing Ex RUCKING BEAR aka because the Bde Comd said so. We did ours back in April but the rest of the brigade units in Pet postponed theirs due to operations.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

IIRC we are issued camel-backs in addition to the 1 and 2 quart canteens.....ensure soldiers carry enough water...my  :2c: I do ruckmarches here at CFSME with a full 1 quart in addition to the camelback and we extra 500ml water bottles.....



			
				ballz said:
			
		

> I'm guessing Ex RUCKING BEAR aka because the Bde Comd said so. We did ours back in April but the rest of the brigade units in Pet postponed theirs due to operations.



so my guess, it's will be like a giant slinky then...... ;D


----------



## ballz

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> IIRC we are issued camel-backs in addition to the 1 and 2 quart canteens.....ensure soldiers carry enough water...my  :2c: I do ruckmarches here at CFSME with a full 1 quart in addition to the camelback and we extra 500ml water bottles.....



The army, in all its wisdom, has decided you only need a Camelbak if you're deploying...



			
				NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> so my guess, it's will be like a giant slinky then...... ;D



Well if last year's picture is any indication of what is to come...  :rofl:


----------



## George Wallace

ballz said:
			
		

> The army, in all its wisdom, has decided you only need a Camelbak if you're deploying...



I wonder how the Army survived for over a hundred years, in several major conflicts at home and abroad, without Camelbaks?   >


----------



## ballz

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I wonder how the Army survived for over a hundred years, in several major conflicts at home and abroad, without Camelbaks?   >



Fair point. How did you do it all those years George? 

Personally, I bought my own a long time ago and have never really used it, I prefer a Nalgene bottle or two, so if I had the option I probably wouldn't use it anyway, but I know some who swear by it. It seems pretty unreasonable to me to have kit on hand that is only for when you are deployed. Train like you fight?


----------



## George Wallace

ballz said:
			
		

> Fair point. How did you do it all those years George?



Honestly, I seldom used my canteen.  Always took advantage of the oranges and drinks that the unit placed along the route.  (I was lucky to be in units that thought of those things.)


----------



## Kamikaze1655

I was wondering, am I able to wear my full fighting order whenever I practice ruckmarching? If not can I wear the boots, cadpat pants , and brown shirt or do I have to be in civies?


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Kamikaze1655 said:
			
		

> I was wondering, am I able to wear my full fighting order whenever I practice ruckmarching? If not can I wear the boots, cadpat pants , and brown shirt or do I have to be in civies?



Well you can but you will look like a goofball.  I usually wear cargo pants, a t-shirt and hiking boots whenever I train by myself.


----------



## George Wallace

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Well you can but you will look like a goofball.  I usually wear cargo pants, a t-shirt and hiking boots whenever I train by myself.




My  :2c:

As RoyalDrew said, if on your own time, dress as comfortable as you please, but consider one important point: Your boots.  If you are going to be wearing a new pair of Cbt Boots on the actual march, you may want to break them in first.


----------



## Lumber

And for the love of God do not in any way carry a weapon of any kind! We had a guy at clown college RMC somehow get a hold of one of those rubber rifle replicas and take it on a march in town.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Lumber said:
			
		

> And for the love of God do not in any way carry a weapon of any kind! We had a guy at clown college RMC somehow get a hold of one of those rubber rifle replicas and take it on a march in town.



Hahaha I bet that went over well!


----------



## Jarnhamar

Buy an 8-pound sledge hammer and rucksack march with that. You can save yourself ass pain by marching with a weight vest instead of chest rig/tacvest.

The new ruck the Canadian Forces issues is garbage also. Go on ebay and pick up a nice Mystery ranch ruck for 1/3rd the retail price.


----------



## OldSolduer

I was going to suggest some comfy lingerie and hi heels.....oops wrong thread...... :facepalm:


----------



## BinRat55

I have a ref for ya Steno360 - it's called your CoC. Regarding dress policy for PT / walking on / off, the Base (or Bde) RSM is responsible to make this call. You will not find it in any manual or pub where we are instructed on the wearing of our kit in this manner. If your unit CSM / SSM wants to allow the troops to let their zipper down, unlace boots, unblouse pants - it's up to them to either make that call or bear the brunt of the Base RSM when he catches you doing it. Unless the have sought the RSM's permission...

Camelbacks? Not issued to everyone. This is a restricted item and therefore only in certain situations will you be issued it. See Material Authorization Documents - Scales of issue.


----------



## PMedMoe

Infanteer said:
			
		

> plus eliminate boot bands which restrict circulation.



How large are their calves??   



Seriously, if one's boot bands are so tight as to restrict circulation, perhaps they should use two per leg.


----------



## brensol

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Buy an 8-pound sledge hammer and rucksack march with that. You can save yourself *** pain by marching with a weight vest instead of chest rig/tacvest.
> 
> *The new ruck the Canadian Forces issues is garbage also. Go on ebay and pick up a nice Mystery ranch ruck for 1/3rd the retail price.*



You would be allowed to use a ruck purchased yourself? I have a Mystery Ranch CrewCab that I love....


----------



## dangerboy

brensol said:
			
		

> You would be allowed to use a ruck purchased yourself? I have a Mystery Ranch CrewCab that I love....



For training at home by yourself yes.  For with your unit, it depends on your unit. Most units will not let you but there are a few that will.


----------



## brensol

dangerboy said:
			
		

> For training at home by yourself yes.  For with your unit, it depends on your unit. Most units will not let you but there are a few that will.



Thanks for your reply. I have been using my Myster Ranch pack while on the treadmill and I really love how comfortable the pack is.


----------



## daftandbarmy

brensol said:
			
		

> Thanks for your reply. I have been using my Myster Ranch pack while on the treadmill and I really love how comfortable the pack is.



I train on a treadmill myself these days, with a ruck. 

As I get older I find that it's much lower impact on the old man joints. My usual target is 2000 vertical feet in 40 minutes, carrying 40 lbs, with the elevation set at max (20). It's doable in a lunch hour.

It still feels pretty lame though, of course. Nothing beats having a good mountain close by to wear down


----------



## brensol

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I train on a treadmill myself these days, with a ruck.
> 
> As I get older I find that it's much lower impact on the old man joints. My usual target is 2000 vertical feet in 40 minutes, carrying 40 lbs, with the elevation set at max (20). It's doable in a lunch hour.
> 
> It still feels pretty lame though, of course. Nothing beats having a good mountain close by to wear down



That sounds pretty decent for "old man joints"! My treadmill only goes up to 10% incline so I have just been "hiking" for 2 hours at a time and working on my pace. I've got a while to continue my preparations even before my hernia surgery and then I can reapply in the coming new year.


----------



## daftandbarmy

brensol said:
			
		

> That sounds pretty decent for "old man joints"! My treadmill only goes up to 10% incline so I have just been "hiking" for 2 hours at a time and working on my pace. I've got a while to continue my preparations even before my hernia surgery and then I can reapply in the coming new year.



One rule: don't get injured


----------



## CharlesLaf

Hello everyone,

I've recently applied to join the Reserve and of course, relatives are popping up and sharing their experience in the CF. 
I've heard that "back in the days" it was a 30km ruck march for the infantry. Now it's 13km. Quite a drop! The justification given was that .. "now there's girls".
I wanted to double check the validity of the statement. The 30km would have been in early 1980. 

Thanks,
PS: Yes, I used the search function before posting.


----------



## dangerboy

I think that people that can't accept the fact that there are females in the Infantry are telling stories.  I joined in 1988 (reserves) and don't recall hearing about an official 30 km march that the Infantry had to do.  I do remember doing a 32 km marches back in the 90's and there were females doing it also.


----------



## PuckChaser

There's women that complete the Ironman/Mountain Man competitions in better time than some men.


----------



## sidemount

The last 2 years Petawawa was doing a brigade wide 20km.

Thats the longest Ive been required to do in 13 years in the army (eme tech). Ive never heard anything about it being because of women in the military. To be quite frank there are plenty of women that are more fit then most guys and quite a few butterball guys as well.




Ironman, Mountain man, and Nijmegan are all much more...but thats by choice and plenty of women do well in them


----------



## Rick Goebel

Move said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've recently applied to join the Reserve and of course, relatives are popping up and sharing their experience in the CF.
> I've heard that "back in the days" it was a 30km ruck march for the infantry. Now it's 13km. Quite a drop! The justification given was that .. "now there's girls".
> I wanted to double check the validity of the statement. The 30km would have been in early 1980.
> 
> Thanks,
> PS: Yes, I used the search function before posting.



Back in the dark ages of the early 1990s, 1 Bde had a discretionary 32 km ruck march for infantry only and as a culmination of a sequence of the 13 km as the fitness test, the 2 x 16 km as a unit competition, and then the 32 km.


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## daftandbarmy

Rick Goebel said:
			
		

> Back in the dark ages of the early 1990s, 1 Bde had a discretionary 32 km ruck march for infantry only and as a culmination of a sequence of the 13 km as the fitness test, the 2 x 16 km as a unit competition, and then the 32 km.



This is a great example of a progressive and truly 'battle fitness' focused standard. Combined with complimentary circuit/ weight training, it would do a great service for the combat arms and anyone required to work with them IMHO.

I units I have been part in the past of we did similar tests at least once a month or so when in barracks. 20 miles/ 32kms should only take about 5 hours, a simple afternoon hike.

It's easy to keep the fitness levels up if you do it consistently, even for support arms and services attached to the infantry.


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