# Helicopters start rescue efforts after landslide traps hundreds on B.C. highway



## daftandbarmy (15 Nov 2021)

Go Rotor Heads!


Helicopters start rescue efforts after landslide traps hundreds on B.C. highway​Up to 275 trapped on Highway 7, near Agassiz, B.C., since Sunday evening​
Captain John Gormick of Vancouver's Heavy Urban Search And Rescue team spoke with CBC News about the efforts made so far in assisting travellers trapped in their vehicles by landslides that occurred Sunday on Highway 7 near Agassiz, B.C., about 125 kilometres east of Vancouver. 5:47

Rescue efforts by helicopter are underway after two mudslides trapped hundreds of people on a southern B.C. highway while an assessment has started to determine if others may have ended up in the flow of debris.

The landslides, which occurred on Sunday on Highway 7 near Agassiz, B.C., about 125 kilometres east of Vancouver, came as communities in southern parts of the province dealt with heavy rainfall.

As many as 275 people, among them 50 children, have been trapped on the stretch of highway since Sunday evening, the City of Vancouver and Canada Task Force 1, the locally based urban search and rescue team, said in a joint release.

It says they were joined by Chilliwack Search and Rescue and a geotechnical engineer to survey the area for anyone who may be trapped in the debris.

Canadian Forces Cormorant helicopters started the first of multiple rescue flights on Monday, transporting evacuees between the slide area and a reception centre in nearby Agassiz.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-landslide-weather-road-debris-nov15-1.6249085?ref=mobilerss&cmp=newsletter_CBC%20News%20Top%20Headlines%20%20%E2%80%93%20Evening_1617_333082


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## dapaterson (15 Nov 2021)

Apparently, most gasoline delivered to the island comes through Nanaimo, and is then distributed along the Malahat highway.  So bigger second order effects are still to come.


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> Apparently, most gasoline delivered to the island comes through Nanaimo, and is then distributed along the Malahat highway.  So bigger second order effects are still to come.


Worse. The power is out at Costco.


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## dapaterson (15 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Worse. The power is out at Costco.



Where can you buy a four-pack of three gallon of jars of mayonnaise, then?


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## brihard (15 Nov 2021)

Apparently the entire Lower Mainland (Vancouver metro and maybe an hour east) is cut off by land from the rest of Canada. All the highways are blocked, a few sections of same are literally destroyed. The rail lines are also inoperable.

This is actually a calamity, it’s just going to take a couple days for that to sink in.


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## Journeyman (15 Nov 2021)

Let's see what all those NDP votes get them now....   #Payback=Bitch


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## daftandbarmy (15 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Apparently the entire Lower Mainland (Vancouver metro and maybe an hour east) is cut off by land from the rest of Canada. All the highways are blocked, a few sections of same are literally destroyed. The rail lines are also inoperable.
> 
> This is actually a calamity, it’s just going to take a *couple days for that to sink in.*



I see what you did there.

Merritt is under water and evacuated, again, for the second time this year. 

Vancouver Island is crippled too and roads are out all over. Some places had about 10 inches of rain in 2 days.

About 50,000 people are without power across the province Outage list

This is turning out to be yet another 'weather event of the Century'.


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Apparently the entire Lower Mainland (Vancouver metro and maybe an hour east) is cut off by land from the rest of Canada. All the highways are blocked, a few sections of same are literally destroyed. The rail lines are also inoperable.
> 
> This is actually a calamity, it’s just going to take a couple days for that to sink in.


Maybe 1 CER is about to get some real world bridge training…


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## brihard (15 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Maybe 1 CER is about to get some real world bridge training…


Can they do rail?


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## Journeyman (15 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Maybe 1 CER is about to get some real world bridge training…


If only there were Engineers in Chilliwack (Vedder Crossing BC for the youngin's.... )


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## daftandbarmy (15 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Maybe 1 CER is about to get some real world bridge training…



Too bad they moved them out of Chilliwack
















						B.C. flood update: 'This event is anticipated to be catastrophic,' says minister to Abbotsford residents | One body recovered, search continues for others
					

An atmospheric river has caused widespread flooding, mudslides and rockslides. Watch this file for live updates.




					vancouversun.com


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## brihard (15 Nov 2021)

In some cases there are a few of these major washouts in serial on the same highway. They’ll need to fix one enough to start moving heavy equipment to the next. This is going to have long lasting impacts. I can’t meaningfully guess the supply chain ramifications of this for the interior… A whole lot probably comes in by ship to Vancouver.


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> In some cases there are a few of these major washouts in serial on the same highway. They’ll need to fix one enough to start moving heavy equipment to the next. This is going to have long lasting impacts. I can’t meaningfully guess the supply chain ramifications of this for the interior… A whole lot probably comes in by ship to Vancouver.


That pretty much wipes out the Port of Vancouver as the import/export center for the next 6 months. I hope Prince Rupert is feeling fiesty…


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Can they do rail?
> 
> View attachment 67172


Nope. I was more thinking they could get MGB (is it still MGB?) across the highway gaps and at least get transport truck traffic going again.


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## YZT580 (15 Nov 2021)

Does Prince Rupert offer reliable rail service to Alberta and major crane service to lift the containers off?


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## SeaKingTacco (16 Nov 2021)

YZT580 said:


> Does Prince Rupert offer reliable rail service to Alberta and major crane service to lift the containers off?


Yep.









						Prince Rupert Port Authority
					

Canada's Leading Edge




					www.rupertport.com


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## MilEME09 (16 Nov 2021)

YZT580 said:


> Does Prince Rupert offer reliable rail service to Alberta and major crane service to lift the containers off?


There is a line from Prince Rupert to Jasper, and from there to Edmonton, but it's capacity at the port, seems limited via google maps.


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## mariomike (16 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Captain John Gormick of Vancouver's Heavy Urban Search And Rescue team
> 
> 
> , the City of Vancouver and Canada Task Force 1, the locally based urban search and rescue team, said in a joint release.


Good thing they did not defund it.









						Feds cut funds to Vancouver urban search and rescue team
					

Vancouver's fire chief was caught off guard this week when he learned that the federal government had cut funding to the city's urban search and rescue team, a crucial resource in case "the big one" hits.



					bc.ctvnews.ca


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## RedFive (16 Nov 2021)

Journeyman said:


> If only there were Engineers in Chilliwack (Vedder Crossing BC for the youngin's.... )


If only there was any kind of Regular Force Army presence available whatsoever...


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## Brad Sallows (16 Nov 2021)

So far I only know of 2 washouts: Hwy 5 (Othello Br, which is east of Hope still on the valley bottom), and Hwy 1 (Tank Hill rail overpass, which is in Thompson River canyon east of Lytton.  Supposedly Hwy 5 washout is only the southbound (2) lanes, which in principle means a little work could re-open two-way traffic (1 lane each using northbound lanes).

Remaining events all seem to primarily be mud slides.  Sunshine Valley on Hwy 3 (not far east of Hope) is site of the 1965 Hope slide (a big one); it's a fairly flat valley with a meandering stream so my guess is that the flood plain has flooded.  Princeton (Hwy 3/5A) has flooding in its flood plain.  So no routes through Hwy 3.  Hwy 99 somewhere south of Lillooet has a problem, so no route via Pemberton.  (There is a route from Pemberton over the mountains to Gold Bridge and thence to Lillooet, and I think it isn't affected, but you need a bit of ground clearance for the track leading over the mountains from Pemberton to Gold Bridge.)

If mud slides on Hwy 1 and Hwy 11 (either side of Fraser R) are cleared, routes are open to Hope again.  Still need to fix one of Hwy 1, 3, 5.  Tank Hill washout looks like no easy work-arounds.  Once rain subsides, flooded areas reopen.  Currently not raining (mostly clear tonight).

Alternate routes via US are feasible.  Commercial traffic can certainly use US highways to get to border crossing at Osoyoos (Hwy 3 and 97).


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Nov 2021)

Well the locals have found a solution


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## Humphrey Bogart (16 Nov 2021)

So a buddy I work with is from Merritt and grew up on a farm there.  According to him, there have been a lot of new developments going up right in the prime flood plain region (where have we seen that before tsktsk).

His Parents of course are doing great, their farm house situated well above the water line.  🙂

Similar situation to many places across the Country.  My Mother grew up outside Fredericton, NB and always laughs at all the folks complaining about the flooding there because it's been doing it well, since.... forever.  It's just that people never used to build houses right on the flood plain.


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## MilEME09 (16 Nov 2021)

Humphrey Bogart said:


> So a buddy I work with is from Merritt and grew up on a farm there.  According to him, there have been a lot of new developments going up right in the prime flood plain region (where have we seen that before tsktsk).
> 
> His Parents of course are doing great, their farm house situated well above the water line.  🙂
> 
> Similar situation to many places across the Country.  My Mother grew up outside Fredericton, NB and always laughs at all the folks complaining about the flooding there because it's been doing it well, since.... forever.  It's just that people never used to build houses right on the flood plain.


Same thing happened in Alberta in 2013, we don't learn our lessons, and development makes the flooding worse as we clear trees and natural barriers.


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## lenaitch (16 Nov 2021)

There is also the rail line from Prince George (?) to North Vancouver - former BC Rail - although I don't know its current condition.  It has been under restrictions for train length/weight due to its alignment.


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## dimsum (16 Nov 2021)

Humphrey Bogart said:


> So a buddy I work with is from Merritt and grew up on a farm there.  According to him, there have been a lot of new developments going up right in the prime flood plain region (where have we seen that before tsktsk).
> 
> His Parents of course are doing great, their farm house situated well above the water line.  🙂
> 
> Similar situation to many places across the Country.  My Mother grew up outside Fredericton, NB and always laughs at all the folks complaining about the flooding there because it's been doing it well, since.... forever.  It's just that people never used to build houses right on the flood plain.


Also, unless BC works differently, you can't get flood insurance if you build on a floodplain.

So...OP LENTUS, anyone?


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## brihard (16 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> So far I only know of 2 washouts: Hwy 5 (Othello Br, which is east of Hope still on the valley bottom), and Hwy 1 (Tank Hill rail overpass, which is in Thompson River canyon east of Lytton.  Supposedly Hwy 5 washout is only the southbound (2) lanes, which in principle means a little work could re-open two-way traffic (1 lane each using northbound lanes).
> 
> Remaining events all seem to primarily be mud slides.  Sunshine Valley on Hwy 3 (not far east of Hope) is site of the 1965 Hope slide (a big one); it's a fairly flat valley with a meandering stream so my guess is that the flood plain has flooded.  Princeton (Hwy 3/5A) has flooding in its flood plain.  So no routes through Hwy 3.  Hwy 99 somewhere south of Lillooet has a problem, so no route via Pemberton.  (There is a route from Pemberton over the mountains to Gold Bridge and thence to Lillooet, and I think it isn't affected, but you need a bit of ground clearance for the track leading over the mountains from Pemberton to Gold Bridge.)
> 
> ...


More nuanced info than I had, thanks Brad.

This is 5 at the Coquihalla River. Safe to say this will not be the route reopening fastest. The one you mentioned about southbound lane only is elsewhere.

Hopefully when waters recede, 1 and/or 3 just need to be cleared off.

The slide on 99 between Lillooet and Pemberton is pretty bad, though that’s from a buddy out there who is aware of the scene but can’t speak to the engineering side. Big and bad slide at least.

I would be surprised if the alternate mountain routes north are passable given the slides everywhere else, but who knows? I doubt anyone other than locals has even been able to check yet.

CP and CN both have major problems.

The ports were already struggling. This is gonna be rest-of-Canada bad for supply chain I think.

Where does our Asia-bound grain ship out of? And does that continue through the winter?


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## Good2Golf (16 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Where does our Asia-bound grain ship out of? And does that continue through the winter?


What’s old will be new again.  Send it out of TBay and chuff it through Panama, and add a bit to the price to offset.  That is, until the NWP opens up, then fire it up North out of Churchill…


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## KevinB (16 Nov 2021)

If only Canada had more Chinooks...
   Oh and a real utility helicopter


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## Good2Golf (16 Nov 2021)

The whole issue of drastic military cutbacks and closing down major regional presence is coming to bite us in the backside…engineering capability in particular, especially where the domestic need is most likely.


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## Infanteer (16 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> The ports were already struggling. This is gonna be rest-of-Canada bad for supply chain I think.
> 
> Where does our Asia-bound grain ship out of? And does that continue through the winter?


Prince Rupert!









						Prince Rupert Port Authority
					

Canada's Leading Edge




					www.rupertport.com


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## SeaKingTacco (16 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> What’s old will be new again.  Send it out of TBay and chuff it through Panama, and add a bit to the price to offset.  That is, until the NWP opens up, then fire it up North out of Churchill…


Nope, can’t use Churchill. That line is closed for the next two seasons to rebuild the track bed.


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## Good2Golf (16 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Nope, can’t use Churchill. That line is closed for the next two seasons to rebuild the track bed.


👍🏼 Just remembered that…out TBay for now then.  Plus, Churchill was more a longer term, “once the NWP is open” type of thing.


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## Humphrey Bogart (16 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> More nuanced info than I had, thanks Brad.
> 
> This is 5 at the Coquihalla River. Safe to say this will not be the route reopening fastest. The one you mentioned about southbound lane only is elsewhere.
> 
> ...


CN and CP will have the rail line operational again in short order, they repaired the train bridge that was totally engulfed by fire in Lytton, BC in just over 13 days.  The roads will be more problematic as the Government(s) will dither.


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## OldSolduer (16 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Well the locals have found a solution


Man the General Lee was actually 329 Chargers all wrecked by that show


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## brihard (16 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> The whole issue of drastic military cutbacks and closing down major regional presence is coming to bite us in the backside…engineering capability in particular, especially where the domestic need is most likely.


Time to re-role reserve armoured recce for domestic disasters. We can have the 1st HUSARs.


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## MilEME09 (16 Nov 2021)

Humphrey Bogart said:


> CN and CP will have the rail line operational again in short order, they repaired the train bridge that was totally engulfed by fire in Lytton, BC in just over 13 days.  The roads will be more problematic as the Government(s) will dither.


Might take a bit longer this time, but yes they will fix it before the roads are open for sure. The back log this is creating though will take some time in order to fix.


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## daftandbarmy (16 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Time to re-role reserve armoured recce for domestic disasters. We can have the 1st HUSARs.



Because where life and limb is at stake, along with the most complex geo-technical engineering challenges imaginable, it's best to pass that task on to the reserves, right?


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## Journeyman (16 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Because where life and limb is at stake, along with the most complex geo-technical engineering challenges imaginable, it's best to If the RegF doesn't want to do it, pass that task on to the reserves, right?


If forced to do it, the solution would be to give DART a couple of extra shovels.


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## Humphrey Bogart (16 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Because where life and limb is at stake, along with the most complex geo-technical engineering challenges imaginable, it's best to pass that task on to the reserves, right?


They'll put in 1000% more staff effort mobilizing the Reserves than if they'd just called 1 CER and given them a set of verbal orders over them phone.


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## MilEME09 (16 Nov 2021)

Humphrey Bogart said:


> They'll put in 1000% more staff effort mobilizing the Reserves then if they'd just called 1 CER and given the a set of verbal orders over the phone.


Well you gotta justify all those senior reserve officers some how.


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## Loch Sloy! (16 Nov 2021)

> Because where life and limb is at stake, along with the most complex geo-technical engineering challenges imaginable, it's best to pass that task on to the reserves, right?



Potentially Yes... I would not be at all surprised if there are an order of magnitude more Professional engineers and experienced construction workers (all civiilian qualifications) in the reserves than in the Reg force. The CAF does not really appreciate the assets it has available in the reserves... mobilizing those skill sets is another question, but ignoring this potential capability is a waste IMHO.


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Nov 2021)

Humphrey Bogart said:


> CN and CP will have the rail line operational again in short order, they repaired the train bridge that was totally engulfed by fire in Lytton, BC in just over 13 days.  The roads will be more problematic as the Government(s) will dither.


The problem in that area is slope stability, there is very little to build into that will anchor and hold. First order of business will be to stablize what they have and redirect the water & debris flow from the abutments and into a defined channel in case they have another event. then start removing the debris on the upstream side, so they can get to stable soil. I doubt they can pound piles right now without destablizing the remaining bank. there is very little room to work and the area is saturated and it's unclear what is above the site and might be ready to come down on top of them.

For rail, once the other side is checked, they will have to alternate trains through. For road, once they have stabilized the area they throw an Arcow bridge across.

This is the area in GE


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## Kirkhill (16 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> In some cases there are a few of these major washouts in serial on the same highway. They’ll need to fix one enough to start moving heavy equipment to the next. This is going to have long lasting impacts. I can’t meaningfully guess the supply chain ramifications of this for the interior… A whole lot probably comes in by ship to Vancouver.


I was just looking at some stats that said 55% of Canada's imports came through Vancouver and another 15% through Rupert.


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## Brad Sallows (16 Nov 2021)

> Man the General Lee was actually 329 Chargers all wrecked by that show



It breaks the heart.


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## Brad Sallows (16 Nov 2021)

Some of the reporting is confusing.  I suspect 2 of the washouts on the Coquihalla - both in the lower valley north of Hope - are misunderstood to be 1 washout.   One of them is a washout of southbound lanes (only) where the road run parallel to the Coquihalla River, one appears to be a complete washout of a bridge (all 4 lanes).  Note that there is also a mudslide further north (between Portia bridge and Great Bear snowshed) and another half-washout (southbound lanes, again, parallel to Coldwater River) south of Larson Hill (which is north of summit and old toll booth plaza).


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Nov 2021)

Good PR for the RCAF. now they need a Chinook airlifting in some tents, soldiers, mobile kitchen to provide food and shelter for people. This might be a good secondary role for the Reserve Svc Battalions?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460375321023332355


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## daftandbarmy (16 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Good PR for the RCAF. now they need a Chinook airlifting in some tents, soldiers, mobile kitchen to provide food and shelter for people. This might be a good secondary role for the *Reserve Svc Battalions?
> *
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460375321023332355



Emergency Social Services/ EMBC provides hotels so why force people to live in mod tents on soggy ground in winter time (unless, of course, they self-identify as sado-masochists, or Class A reservists  ).


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## lenaitch (16 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> What’s old will be new again.  Send it out of TBay and chuff it through Panama, and add a bit to the price to offset.  That is, until the NWP opens up, then fire it up North out of Churchill…


The seaway closes around the end of the year:









						Seaway announces closing dates of 2020 navigation season - Axxess International
					

The St. Lawrence Seaway Management Corporation announced the projected closing dates for the 2020 navigation season. Mariners are reminded that there is always a possibility that unanticipated conditions may occur during the closing period. Should this happen, there is a chance that the dates...




					axxessintl.com


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## Good2Golf (16 Nov 2021)

lenaitch said:


> The seaway closes around the end of the year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tracking, 👍🏼 but was focused on the original question about getting prairie wheat to Asian markets, so intent would be to ship before the SLSW closed for the season.


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## KevinB (16 Nov 2021)

lenaitch said:


> The seaway closes around the end of the year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could one assume that if needed they could continue operations with the assistance of ice breakers?
    Or a slew of Class A Res with Tiger Torches heating the locks


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## lenaitch (16 Nov 2021)

KevinB said:


> Could one assume that if needed they could continue operations with the assistance of ice breakers?
> Or a slew of Class A Res with Tiger Torches heating the locks


Good question.  I don't know how hardened the locks and other infrastructure is for operating in deep winter.  It would have to be an international effort. - I'm not sure we have enough Seaway-capable ice breakers to do it alone.  I imagine a lot of off-season maintenance would have to be deferred; unknown how much of that is 'gotta do'.

Then there is the question of rail and port capacity.


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## KevinB (16 Nov 2021)

lenaitch said:


> Good question.  I don't know how hardened the locks and other infrastructure is for operating in deep winter.  It would have to be an international effort. - I'm not sure we have enough Seaway-capable ice breakers to do it alone.  I imagine a lot of off-season maintenance would have to be deferred; unknown how much of that is 'gotta do'.
> 
> Then there is the question of rail and port capacity.


Wonder if export through the USA is an option (as I have no idea on the trade implications)


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Nov 2021)

Port of Vancouver, Tacoma and Seattle are all integrated already, so overflow gets diverted regularly. As my friend found out importing shotguns made by Norinco (Banned in the US) to Vancouver, diverted to Tacoma, unloaded seized there, in limbo for a year, then sent back to China. Now all his stuff goes to Prince Rupert which avoids that.


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## daftandbarmy (16 Nov 2021)

Sad news...

One confirmed dead in mudslide that swept across B.C.'s Highway 99​​RCMP confirm woman's body has been recovered​

One woman has been confirmed dead Tuesday after a mudslide that swept across a portion on B.C.'s Highway 99, becoming the first confirmed fatality as a result of widespread flooding and landslides across the southern half of the province.

RCMP confirmed search and rescue personnel recovered the woman's body late Monday.

_More to come.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-flooding-mudslides-highway-99-death-1.6251323
		

_


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Nov 2021)

There some in rural BC that will be happy about this


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## OldSolduer (16 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> There some in rural BC that will be happy about this


In essence the coast is effectively cut off from the interior.


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## YZT580 (16 Nov 2021)

lenaitch said:


> The seaway closes around the end of the year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of the existing vessels are already contracted until the end of the year and it would take weeks to route additional bulk carriers through to the Lakehead, it would be better to use rail through to the east coast.


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## kev994 (16 Nov 2021)

The Beaverton reports BC Ferries is now sailing to Kamloops. 😂


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## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

Whoa...


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## Colin Parkinson (17 Nov 2021)

Things are pretty bad, all that rain has flooded out the Fraser valley and the BC government has requested military aid, to bad 1 CER is no longer in Chilliwack.








						B.C. formally requests federal military support in flood response
					

Canadian Air Force assets have already been involved in rescues over the past two days, including at Highway 7 in Agassiz where hundreds were trapped between two slides.




					www.squamishchief.com


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## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

Meanwhile, at the RV sales place, a huge fire has broken out:


Huge fire burning in Abbotsford Wednesday as city deals with flooding | Watch News Videos Online

Large fire burning in Abbotsford, B.C. amid flooding and evacuations​








						Large fire in Abbotsford, B.C. extinguished amid flooding and evacuations - BC | Globalnews.ca
					

The City of Abbotsford doubled down on its evacuation order Tuesday night, urging all residents who remain in the Sumas Prairie to leave immediately amid further flooding.




					globalnews.ca


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## OldTanker (17 Nov 2021)

I'm not sure an engineer field squadron would make much of a dent in this. What we need is something like the CF response to the Manitoba floods of 1997.


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## Humphrey Bogart (17 Nov 2021)

The Malahat is single lane alternating traffic right now and will be for at least the next week apparently.  I usually pick my wife up at work in Downtown Victoria in the evening and Traffic was lined all the way to Downtown yesterday evening of people trying to get home to Westshore, Mill Bay, Shawnigan, etc.

I also read of a few gas stations lacking fuel atm.


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## dimsum (17 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Meanwhile, at the RV sales place, a huge fire has broken out:
> 
> 
> Huge fire burning in Abbotsford Wednesday as city deals with flooding | Watch News Videos Online
> ...


Divert some of that floodwater to the RV shop?  

Problem solved.


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## Brad Sallows (17 Nov 2021)

I have to wonder whether the water management infrastructure governing Sumas Lake/Prairie in the valley is holding water in, rather than out.


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## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> I'm not sure an engineer field squadron would make much of a dent in this. What we need is something like the CF response to the Manitoba floods of 1997.



I have had some contact with folks in the Fraser Valley and they keep asking 'Where's the Army when you need them?'.

Of course I replied that who they actually need is the Navy. Some get the joke. 

Others - not so much


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## brihard (17 Nov 2021)

From a buddy of mine in Abby, looks like they were able to save the Barrowtown pump station last night. That's the primary drainage for Sumas..

It's still a disaster, but at least they'll be able to pump out the farmland without having to rebuild the pumps first. I think that "the farmland" in this case also includes the Trans Canada Highway.

From what I'm hearing, the Coquihalla (5), and the Trans Canada north past Lytton are both definitely out for a while- we've all seen those photos. That leaves the 3 and the 99.

Highway 3 (the Crowsnest) has slides on it, but hopefully they can clear it in reasonably short order. Nothing heard yet suggesting washouts or major structural issues. Potentially could have traffic moving by the end of the weekend.

Highway 99 beyond Whistler is completely blocked by slides, including the one with the known fatality, and it sounds like that slide hit cars by surprise... There may be more. I'm not sure if they've been able to meaningfully assess the whole route for actual damage yet, but it sounds liek the provincial government expects to reopen it also in reasonably short order. So, for a while it'll be the 3 and the 99.

No word on rail, but they'll bust their ass and thrown everything at it, and I don't think much bureaucracy will stand in the way. I would be surprised if the rail companies don't already have emergency plans in place for all the bridges for just this sort of eventuality.


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## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

Now that the rain storm's departed we can crank up the blame storm:

How B.C.'s catastrophic rainfall, flooding was foretold days before​
Wednesday, November 17th 2021, 10:29 am - What began as an ordinary rainstorm had quickly escalated to the beginnings of a significant event on Sunday, Nov. 14, making a major flood unavoidable, according to Tyler Hamilton, a meteorologist at The Weather Network.

The warning signs of B.C.'s epic rainstorm this week appeared as early as Nov. 9, according to Tyler Hamilton, a meteorologist at The Weather Network.

Word of rising freezing levels for the South Coast for Remembrance Day came as early as Tuesday, Nov. 9. The forecast had indicated a "pineapple express" was in the works. For reference, a pineapple express is the name given to a potent band of tropical moisture originating from the deep tropics near the Hawaiian Islands. It can target the West Coast from B.C. to California. It's an example of an atmospheric river.

Then, computer model guidance on Thursday, Nov. 11 had suggested that more than 200 mm of rain was headed for the Fraser Valley. By Saturday, Nov. 13, it was evident that Victoria's "rain shadow" would fail, Hamilton says, as a stream of moisture pushed into Squamish and other areas.









						How B.C.'s catastrophic rainfall, flooding was foretold days before
					

What began as an ordinary rainstorm had quickly escalated to the beginnings of a significant event on Sunday, Nov. 14, making a major flood unavoidable, according to Tyler Hamilton, a meteorologist at The Weather Network.



					www.theweathernetwork.com


----------



## Colin Parkinson (17 Nov 2021)

From the Abbotsford Rod and Gun club

Skills and Drills for November 19 and 20 2021


We’ll be working on submerged shooting this weekend. Friday will see us tethered in spot, holding our breath and shooting under water at targets 6 inches away. Saturday you will be navigating a stage while wearing a rebreather.

Okay, enough joking.

The club has been hit hard, we do not have a timeline of when we will be back to operational status. Currently about 6-8ft of water are on the property and there will obviously be significant damage as a result. I would be amazed to see the outdoor ranges usable before the New Year and the indoor before spring time.

We will rebuild and recover, but it’s going to take time.


----------



## Good2Golf (17 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> I have had some contact with folks in the Fraser Valley and they keep asking 'Where's the Army when you need them?'.
> 
> Of course I replied that who they actually need is the Navy. Some get the joke.
> 
> Others - not so much


Well, at least the coast guard was able to extract people by helicopter.


----------



## Quirky (17 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Now that the rain storm's departed we can crank up the blame storm:



BC shits on the rest of western Canada for destroying the environment while they drained an entire lake to make town and agriculture space.


----------



## Good2Golf (17 Nov 2021)

Quirky said:


> BC shits on the rest of western Canada for destroying the environment while they drained an entire lake to make town and agriculture space.


…and shits on itself when it rains too much… 💩 

Storm rains cause sewage overflow on southern Vancouver Island


----------



## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Well, at least the coast guard was able to extract people by helicopter.



Actually, I saw a pice of news coverage with the Big Yellow Bird doing her thing over the caption: 'Army Helicopter Rescues Stranded Motorists'.

I was going to get a photo for you but it was too late


----------



## dimsum (17 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Actually, I saw a pice of news coverage with the Big Yellow Bird doing her thing over the caption: 'Army Helicopter Rescues Stranded Motorists'.
> 
> I was going to get a photo for you but it was too late


I have so little faith in the MSM's use of correct military terminology that as long as they knew it was Canadian, I'd be happy.


----------



## QV (17 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> I have to wonder whether the water management infrastructure governing Sumas Lake/Prairie in the valley is holding water in, rather than out.











						Abbotsford's flood crisis could revive Sumas Lake - Fraser Valley Current
					

Sumas Lake once covered much of the Fraser Valley's fertile farmland. This is the story of how it disappeared, how it could re-appear, and some of the challenges ahead.




					fvcurrent.com
				




A good summary of the Sumas Lake/Prairie area.

_After the 1990 flood that submerged farmland and closed the highway, an international task force was created to tackle the challenge of preparing a response to a flood that might affect both Canada and the United States. Nothing came of that group. And as the memory of the flood receded, so too did the urgency to prevent another one.

Mother Nature and gravity are not easily defied._


----------



## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

And it's Official: Class C for everyone!


B.C. declares state of emergency in wake of devastating flooding, mudslides​Premier Horgan says he expects to confirm more fatalities in the coming days​
*THE LATEST:*


The B.C. government has declared a state of emergency effective noon PT Wednesday.
The federal government has approved deployment of air force personnel to help B.C. with flood aftermath.
Thousands remain evacuated from towns in southern B.C., including Merritt and Princeton.
184 people were rescued from the Sumas Prairie in Abbotsford overnight after the city issued urgent pleas to evacuate the area late Tuesday. 
A large fire broke out at an RV dealership in the evacuation zone in Abbotsford. 
An evacuation order remains in effect for the community of Yarrow and Majuba Hill in Chilliwack.
For a list of up-to-date flood warnings, visit the River Forecast Centre.
For a full list of evacuation orders and alerts, visit Emergency Information B.C.
 
British Columbia's government declared a province-wide state of emergency effective noon PT Wednesday, Premier John Horgan said at a news conference.




			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wyntk-bc-floods-nov-17-1.6251839


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## Kirkhill (17 Nov 2021)

Loch Sloy! said:


> Potentially Yes... I would not be at all surprised if there are an order of magnitude more Professional engineers and experienced construction workers (all civiilian qualifications) in the reserves than in the Reg force. The CAF does not really appreciate the assets it has available in the reserves... mobilizing those skill sets is another question, but ignoring this potential capability is a waste IMHO.



On the other hand I would imagine that all qualified PEngs will be gainfully employed in short order along with anybody that can manage a backhoe.


----------



## MilEME09 (17 Nov 2021)

Kirkhill said:


> On the other hand I would imagine that all qualified PEngs will be gainfully employed in short order along with anybody that can manage a backhoe.


I've always been a fan of the British system of allowing a secondary trade, but your only allowed to partially qualify. Would allow many troops to apply civilian qualifications to the military and increase our flexibility.


----------



## Remius (17 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> I've always been a fan of the British system of allowing a secondary trade, but your only allowed to partially qualify. Would allow many troops to apply civilian qualifications to the military and increase our flexibility.


We had an interesting situation on an OP Lentus where they would not let us go out without a Medic with each group/platoon.  We reported back that the DRC had 2 firefighters and a qualified civilian paramedic.  In a surprise move they said no problem.


----------



## Brad Sallows (17 Nov 2021)

Finally some decent video (on CBC).  Two, maybe even three, complete breaches of Hwy 1; at least two on Hwy 5 involving different bridges with both sets of lanes dropped.  Last time I saw footage of the erosion of the southbound lanes not too far "north" of the Hwy 3/5 junction, the river was almost at the northbound lanes.


----------



## MilEME09 (17 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> Finally some decent video (on CBC).  Two, maybe even three, complete breaches of Hwy 1; at least two on Hwy 5 involving different bridges with both sets of lanes dropped.  Last time I saw footage of the erosion of the southbound lanes not too far "north" of the Hwy 3/5 junction, the river was almost at the northbound lanes.


Top it off with the fact the ground is still unstable so we could loose more still, and the forecast is mixed


----------



## daftandbarmy (17 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> Finally some decent video (on CBC).  Two, maybe even three, complete breaches of Hwy 1; at least two on Hwy 5 involving different bridges with both sets of lanes dropped.  Last time I saw footage of the erosion of the southbound lanes not too far "north" of the Hwy 3/5 junction, the river was almost at the northbound lanes.



If only there was a Combat Engineer Regiment in Chilliwack ...


----------



## SeaKingTacco (17 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> If only there was a Combat Engineer Regiment in Chilliwack ...


We could have had an Engineer Brigade in Chilliwack and it would make no difference. There are years worth of work for every major road Contractor in BC to put this right again, much less improve for the future.


----------



## dapaterson (17 Nov 2021)

The other challenge is the quantity of bridging assets that will be required for a prolonged period of time.

I do not know how many linear metres of Acrow bridging are in CAF holdings, but I'm certain it's nowhere near enough for a disaster of this magnitude. (Acrow replaced the Bailey Bridge in CAF service).






						Acrow   |  Temporary
					






					acrow.com


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> The other challenge is the quantity of bridging assets that will be required for a prolonged period of time.
> 
> I do not know how many linear metres of Acrow bridging are in CAF holdings, but I'm certain it's nowhere near enough for a disaster of this magnitude. (Acrow replaced the Bailey Bridge in CAF service).
> 
> ...



By Jove, I think you've just started the 'Combat Estimate' process for someone with a few stars on their shoulder straps.

I wonder if it will ever be ready for when the 'Big One' hits the lower mainland which, (I believe) is the largest urban concentration in Canada that is most at risk from natural disasters, and which also has the least amount of in situ support from Regular Force ground assets.


----------



## dapaterson (18 Nov 2021)

The Big One will require outside forces brought in to assist with recovery; those in situ will be mostly performing self recovery in the immediate aftermath.


----------



## MilEME09 (18 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> By Jove, I think you've just started the 'Combat Estimate' process for someone with a few stars on their shoulder straps.
> 
> I wonder if it will ever be ready for when the 'Big One' hits the lower mainland which, (I believe) is the largest urban concentration in Canada that is most at risk from natural disasters, and which also has the least amount of in situ support from Regular Force ground assets.


If anything this shows we aren't prepared, a rain storm crippled us quickly, and even getting a single road open will take a long time, now imagine if the airports were out too.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> The other challenge is the quantity of bridging assets that will be required for a prolonged period of time.
> 
> I do not know how many linear metres of Acrow bridging are in CAF holdings, but I'm certain it's nowhere near enough for a disaster of this magnitude. (Acrow replaced the Bailey Bridge in CAF service).
> 
> ...


The Provincial Highways Department and Forestry Department have stockpiles of Arcow bridging in each of the districts, along with smaller modular bridge sections such as this:







If the CAF had these wheeled bridge layers, they be very useful for domestic and international operations. Their bridges would allow construction equipment to get to where it's needed and cover smaller gaps until the Province can mobilize bridging resources or the army brings up it's Arcow bridging. I know that the Province and 1 CER used to work together on bridging exercises back in the 80's.


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> If anything this shows we aren't prepared, a rain storm crippled us quickly, and even getting a single road open will take a long time, now imagine if the airports were out too.



And imagine the public order, looting, panic buying, and other similar 'tempers flaring' issues - on a mass scale - resulting from a massive earthquake or other major disaster e.g., 

Police called in as tempers flare over Malahat closure​Drivers frustrated by delays getting over the Malahat are taking their anger out on flaggers, say police, who have moved in to keep the peace.

The highway is closed for repairs from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Monday and limited to single-lane alternating traffic during the day so damage from heavy rain and flooding can be repaired.

“We are aware that some motorists have taken out their anger on flaggers, who are only doing their job,” said West Shore RCMP Const. Alex Berube. “We acknowledge that tempers are high and patience is running thin.”

West Shore RCMP will be on hand at both 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. to ensure a smooth transition to single-lane-traffic mode, Berube said.









						Police called in as tempers flare over Malahat closure
					

The highway is closed for repairs from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. daily for the rest of the week.




					www.timescolonist.com


----------



## FJAG (18 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> The other challenge is the quantity of bridging assets that will be required for a prolonged period of time.
> 
> I do not know how many linear metres of Acrow bridging are in CAF holdings, but I'm certain it's nowhere near enough for a disaster of this magnitude. (Acrow replaced the Bailey Bridge in CAF service).
> 
> ...


Luckily the Northwestern Division of the US Army Corps of Engineers has a good stockpile of all that stuff available.

It's time to see if that special relationship really works.

Gee. Wouldn't it be nice if a few of the Canadian Army Reserve Engineer units were bridging units and had all that kind of gear "in reserve" instead of just a handful of MilCOTS.

🍻


----------



## MilEME09 (18 Nov 2021)

FJAG said:


> Luckily the Northwestern Division of the US Army Corps of Engineers has a good stockpile of all that stuff available.
> 
> It's time to see if that special relationship really works.
> 
> ...


River boats might be more useful then bridges. The closest place to preposition bridges to help BC and have access would be Suffield, lots of empty space to put bridging equipment. Getting to the location would be difficult, now having military river boats to transport those bridges could be more effective


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> River boats might be more useful then bridges. The closest place to preposition bridges to help BC and have access would be Suffield, lots of empty space to put bridging equipment. Getting to the location would be difficult, now having military river boats to transport those bridges could be move effective



Damn... that Combat Estimate just writes itself!


----------



## MilEME09 (18 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Damn... that Combat Estimate just writes itself!


Just don't put immediate promotion on my PER


----------



## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> River boats might be more useful then bridges. The closest place to preposition bridges to help BC and have access would be Suffield, lots of empty space to put bridging equipment. Getting to the location would be difficult, now having military river boats to transport those bridges could be more effective


No reason not to have both bridge component and boats at Reserve units.


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> No reason not to have both bridge component and boats at Reserve units.



39 CER has some floaties 


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=727956120739315


----------



## Brad Sallows (18 Nov 2021)

I don't know that "years" of work are required to get a route open; the Coquihalla construction activities took roughly 2 years from 1984 to 1986.  If Hwy 3 has only floods and slides and the road is OK, cleanup will do.  Hwy 1 looks like the biggest challenge; there isn't a lot of room to move laterally.  I suppose after the immediate fixes are complete, there are places that some heavy-duty riprap is in order (eg. Hwy 5 where it snakes alongside the Coldwater River, crossing the latter a few times between Britton Creek and Kingsvale).


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

Matt's take on the situation....


*Matt Gurney: Only dead Canadians will shock us out of our appalling complacency

We don't even fund our search-and-rescue units properly. That's the least controversial thing the military does.*

If you've heard of General Wayne Eyre, Canadian Army, it's probably because he's currently the acting chief of the defence staff — that's the top officer in the Canadian Armed Forces, in command of the army, navy and air force. He got the job after the last CDS got entangled in the sexual misconduct scandal now roiling the military. Gen. Erye stands a pretty good chance of being the next CDS on a full-time basis, assuming the government ever gets around to making a decision on that front. Given the attention the Liberals usually give the military, this is not a guarantee.

If you'd heard of Gen. Eyre before all the weirdness alluded to above, there's a decent chance it's because of a pretty stark warning he sounded not long ago. Interviewed by the Canadian Press, the general, then head of the army, warned that the military was simply too small to do all that was being asked of it. Specifically, he warned that increasingly frequent domestic deployments were interfering with the military's ability to conduct large-scale, multi-unit exercises. In typical Canadian fashion, the general reached for a hockey metaphor to describe why such large exercises are essential, and told the CP, “It’s like a hockey team that would never train, never play on the ice together, and then all of a sudden being thrown into an NHL game and be expected to win."


Matt Gurney: Only dead Canadians will shock us out of our appalling complacency


----------



## KevinB (18 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Matt's take on the situation....
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Gurney: Only dead Canadians will shock us out of our appalling complacency


Pretty darned accurate.

I don't want to grind my axe much here -- but a few more Squadrons of CH-147F's would be significantly helpful at this point in time.


----------



## Good2Golf (18 Nov 2021)

Yup.  Heck, I'd horse-trade airframe/fleet numbers, and do a 1:1 of say 15 more 147Fs and give up some 146s.  Base the second 147F Sqn in YED.  I bet they even have a Sqn number in mind...or just make them a flight of 408 to be easier and keep things from over inflating structure.


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Yup.  Heck, I'd horse-trade airframe/fleet numbers, and do a 1:1 of say 15 more 147Fs and give up some 146s.  Base the second 147F Sqn in YED.  I bet they even have a Sqn number in mind...or just make them a flight of 408 to be easier and keep things from over inflating structure.



I watched the aircrew interviews on TV last night. 

One of the pilots was a female LCdr, on exchange from the States. She looked awesome!


----------



## mariomike (18 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> And imagine the public order, looting, panic buying, and other similar 'tempers flaring' issues - on a mass scale - resulting from a massive earthquake or other major disaster e.g.,
> 
> ​


OP: An earthquake will destroy a sizable portion of the coastal Northwest.








						The Really Big One
					

So, how are we doing with respect to earthquake preparedness CF-wise?     The Really Big One  An earthquake will destroy a sizable portion of the coastal Northwest. The question is when.  When the 2011 earthquake and tsunami struck Tohoku, Japan, Chris Goldfinger was two hundred miles away, in...




					www.milnet.ca


----------



## dimsum (18 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> One of the pilots was a female LCdr, on exchange from the States. She looked awesome!


Like USN Lieutenant-Commander?  I know that there are USN folks in the MH and LRP fleets, but didn't know they were also in TH.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (18 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> Like USN Lieutenant-Commander?  I know that there are USN folks in the MH and LRP fleets, but didn't know they were also in TH.


No. There is a USCG billet at 442 Sqn.


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> Like USN Lieutenant-Commander?  I know that there are USN folks in the MH and LRP fleets, but didn't know they were also in TH.



I think she was USCG? About 6 ft 2 in tall by the look of it.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2021)

Matt Gurney: Only dead Canadians will shock us out of our appalling complacency
					

We don't even fund our search-and-rescue units properly. That's the least controversial thing the military does.




					theline.substack.com
				




_If you've heard of General Wayne Eyre, Canadian Army, it's probably because he's currently the acting chief of the defence staff — that's the top officer in the Canadian Armed Forces, in command of the army, navy and air force. He got the job after the last CDS got entangled in the sexual misconduct scandal now roiling the military. Gen. Erye stands a pretty good chance of being the next CDS on a full-time basis, assuming the government ever gets around to making a decision on that front. Given the attention the Liberals usually give the military, this is not a guarantee._

Rest at link


----------



## dimsum (18 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Matt Gurney: Only dead Canadians will shock us out of our appalling complacency
> 
> 
> We don't even fund our search-and-rescue units properly. That's the least controversial thing the military does.
> ...


The better quote is this:

"Search-and-rescue makes an interesting example when considering Canada's appalling neglect of its military because search-and-rescue is the easiest cost to justify. It's not controversial. It's not inordinately expensive. There’s zero risk of accidentally bombing an orphanage or a particularly lively wedding reception. It's the one mission the military can launch that won't trigger protests in the streets. Basically everything else the military does is subject to criticism, and fair enough. We're a democracy, after all. But search-and-rescue is literally that — it's searching for lost people and rescuing them in an absolutely gigantic country that is increasingly prone to devastating disasters.

And we _still_ skimp out. Because we're cheap."


----------



## Brad Sallows (18 Nov 2021)

Like everything else related to unusual emergencies, the CAF's domestic capability is a compromise short of "enough to handle anything that could possibly happen".  Obviously some situations require bodies on shovels rather than expensive kit.


----------



## KevinB (18 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> Like everything else related to unusual emergencies, the CAF's domestic capability is a compromise short of "enough to handle anything that could possibly happen".  Obviously some situations require bodies on shovels rather than expensive kit.


The problem is these are not longer unusual - the effects of a warming climate.
   *The ice age is ending...


----------



## Brad Sallows (18 Nov 2021)

We have less than 150 years of anything approximating good climate records at this end of the country.  We don't know how often pine beetle infestations recur.  We don't know how often the annual Jul/Aug heat trap pops up closer to summer solstice, when the days are longer and more heat energy is received from the sun.  We don't know how often a severe local rainstorm like this occurs - keep in mind that clouds moving in from the Pacific are funneled and concentrated by the geography before they dump most of their precipitation, and almost all of the major events occurred in a region about 100 to 150 km in diameter.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2021)

I just attended a lunch and learn (today, but scheduled 3 weeks ago, so ironic) on Atmospheric rivers, which is what hit us, these have been occurring for a very long time and are driven by events in the Mid latitudes, even all the really smart people there knew that is not new or a result of climate change. It's is possible that there are more events like this due to climate change and the secondary effects might be greater, thanks to pine beetles and forest fires. The reality is that there is not enough data collected to say if we are getting more of them or not at present. Climate Change is a great excuse to whitewash failure to prepare for likely occasional events.








						What are atmospheric rivers?
					

Learn more about these rivers in the sky




					www.noaa.gov
				












						Changes in Atmospheric Circulation
					

Changes in Atmospheric Circulation. Current Weather Review of Major Teleconnection Patterns Observed Changes in Atmospheric Circulation For Next Class: Read IPCC AR4 Ch. 3 (pp. 286-295). Changes in Atmospheric Circulation.




					www.slideserve.com


----------



## rnkelly (18 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Yup.  Heck, I'd horse-trade airframe/fleet numbers, and do a 1:1 of say 15 more 147Fs and give up some 146s.  Base the second 147F Sqn in YED.  I bet they even have a Sqn number in mind...or just make them a flight of 408 to be easier and keep things from over inflating structure.


If you put some in YED you gotta put some in YOY. I like the flight idea to start.


----------



## daftandbarmy (18 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> I just attended a lunch and learn (today, but scheduled 3 weeks ago, so ironic) on Atmospheric rivers, which is what hit us, these have been occurring for a very long time and are driven by events in the Mid latitudes, even all the really smart people there knew that is not new or a result of climate change. It's is possible that there are more events like this due to climate change and the secondary effects might be greater, thanks to pine beetles and forest fires. The reality is that there is not enough data collected to say if we are getting more of them or not at present. Climate Change is a great excuse to whitewash failure to prepare for likely occasional events.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Good2Golf (18 Nov 2021)

rnkelly said:


> If you put some in YED you gotta put some in YOY. I like the flight idea to start.


 Maybe a 450 Det in YOY, but Hooks can hit YCX on a single tank, let alone barely finish a post-takeoff check before they hit YOY.  YOY barely gives time for a level-off check out of YWA.  I used to dread the PITA YWA-YOY hops in a 135 or even a 146, but coffee in a Hook’s barely off piping hot letting down into Traz.

The West would still benefit from a permanent presence if Scrooge McDuck would let loose a few gold doubloons to pick up some more Hooks.


----------



## Furniture (18 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> I just attended a lunch and learn (today, but scheduled 3 weeks ago, so ironic) on Atmospheric rivers, which is what hit us, these have been occurring for a very long time and are driven by events in the Mid latitudes, even all the really smart people there knew that is not new or a result of climate change. It's is possible that there are more events like this due to climate change and the secondary effects might be greater, thanks to pine beetles and forest fires. The reality is that there is not enough data collected to say if we are getting more of them or not at present. Climate Change is a great excuse to whitewash failure to prepare for likely occasional events.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting links, I would have liked to have heard the presentations. 

While I expect most people are relatively familiar with global circulation patterns, I expect most are not familiar enough to get much from some of the graphics in the second link. I struggled to get anything from them that is outside of the normal patterns.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2021)

Basically a whole crapload of water suspended in the air column 4km thick and maybe a 50-100km wide, travelling some 2,000 km. Generally the southern coastal mountain take most of it, but sometimes it gets in further.


----------



## Furniture (19 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Basically a whole crapload of water suspended in the air column 4km thick and maybe a 50-100km wide, travelling some 2,000 km. Generally the southern coastal mountain take most of it, but sometimes it gets in further.


A good breakdown in layman's terms, I was thinking more technically.

I'm a weather forecaster, so I want raw model data, combined with expert analysis...


----------



## Good2Golf (19 Nov 2021)

It was that darned Monarch butterfly down in Mexico that caused it…


----------



## daftandbarmy (19 Nov 2021)

Send it, Bob:

"I am a professional emergency manager with more than 20 years’ experience. The recent rainfall event has only confirmed the state of disaster unpreparedness in B.C.

This lack of preparedness exists at four levels.

First, individuals are responsible for their own emergency preparedness. Few make the effort to do so.

Second, while the B.C. Emergencies Act delegates the responsibility for emergency preparedness to local authorities, few municipalities and regional districts take emergency preparedness seriously and fund their emergency planning and preparedness programs adequately.

Third, the province continues to hide behind the Emergencies Act, holding local authorities responsible for emergency preparedness and response knowing full well most are unable or unwilling to meet the requirements of the act. We saw this shortfall to our horror during the heat dome of last summer, and we are seeing it again as B.C. reels from the effects of the destructive recent rainfall.

Finally, in terms of emergency preparedness, the federal government appears to have concluded that B.C. has already slid into the Pacific and ignores us.

The heat dome and heavy rainfall, dramatic as they were, pale in comparison to what we could expect from a major earthquake.

There are many dedicated professional and volunteer emergency managers across B.C. who struggle to manage poorly funded and supported emergency programs, but they have been let down by their various orders of government.

We are not prepared for a major disaster in B.C., and we ignore the warnings we have been given at our peril.

Bob Black
Saanichton"

Letters Nov. 18: The Malahat problem; we're not ready for a real disaster


----------



## daftandbarmy (19 Nov 2021)

mariomike said:


> OP: An earthquake will destroy a sizable portion of the coastal Northwest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Meanwhile, it looks like they're planning on building the biggest, newest hospital in BC in a liquefaction zone, but it's good for votes:

*Danger of liquefaction at False Creek Flats site of new St. Paul’s Hospital flagged by City of Vancouver*
A powerful and sustained earthquake could liquefy the soil on which a new St. Paul’s Hospital is going to be built.

Planners with the City of Vancouver are alive to this danger, and have imposed conditions to ensure the resilience of the health facility that will be developed at the False Creek Flats.

The risk was one of the items contained in a recent report to council by planner Karen Hoese.

“The site is situated on a former mud flat at the end of the False Creek Inlet,” Hoese related. “The portion of the flat east of Main Street was filled in the 1900s.”

According to Hoese, the site is “located in a flood plain between 4.0 and 5.0 m above sea level”.

“This filled land is susceptible to liquefaction and severe ground shaking during earthquakes, and is located adjacent to neighbourhoods with high concentrations of earthquake-prone buildings,” Hoese wrote.

Providence Health Care will replace the current St. Paul’s Hospital at 1081 Burrard Street.

The new hospital will be located at a 7.5-hectare property between Prior Street to the north, National Avenue to the south, Station Street to the west, and Trillium Park to the east.

Hoese noted in her report that hospitals are critical infrastructure “essential to the functioning of communities day-to-day, and vital during and after disasters”.

“This new hospital presents an important opportunity for a state-of-the art facility built to withstand inevitable hazards,” Hoese stated. “Given that the New St. Paul’s Hospital is located in a flood plain and high-risk seismic and liquefaction zone, staff have provided conditions requiring comprehensive all-hazard risk and vulnerability assessments be completed, and that climate and seismic resilience measures be incorporated into the design of the building.”

The conditions include the establishment of an expert panel that will “evaluate the resilience of the design, and report on the post-disaster functionality of the hospital”.

“Recommendations from the panel are not binding, but provide a high level of transparency to the project,” Hoese added

Danger of liquefaction at False Creek Flats site of new St. Paul’s Hospital flagged by City of Vancouver


----------



## MilEME09 (19 Nov 2021)

B.C. flooding latest: New order limits amount of gas drivers can buy in province's southwest
					

There will be a limit on the amount of gasoline drivers can buy in southwestern B.C. for the next 10 to 11 days, Deputy Premier Mike Farnworth announced during a briefing Friday.




					www.ctvnews.ca
				




6 to 12 homes in Abbotsford to be destroyed in order to build an emergency dyke. Thats as crazy as it gets, that must of been a hard COA to swallow


----------



## daftandbarmy (19 Nov 2021)

Gas rationing, and other emergency orders, announced by the BC Government.

You, you and you, come with me. The rest of you: panic 


BC to begin restricting gas for drivers amidst shortage​

BC’s provincial government has announced that it will begin restricting gas for drivers.


The announcement was made on Friday afternoon by Emergency Management BC and Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General Mike Farnworth.

“Due to weather-related impacts to the Trans Mountain pipeline and damage to the roadways, there is a reduced but steady supply of gasoline,” Farnworth says.

The order begins effective immediately and will remain in place until December 1, 2021. It will apply to fuel suppliers in the Lower Mainland to the Hope region, the Sea to Sky region, Sunshine Coast, Gulf Islands, and Vancouver Island.

Non-essential vehicles, including the general public, will be limited to 30 litres per trip at retail gas stations. Essential vehicles, however, will have unrestricted access to fuel — these vehicles will use “predominantly commercial trucking gas stations,” which use card locks.









						BC to begin restricting gas for drivers amidst shortage | Urbanized
					

On Friday afternoon, the provincial government announced that it will begin rationing gas for drivers in British Columbia.




					dailyhive.com


----------



## dimsum (19 Nov 2021)

A good news story thanks to 442:









						Three helicopters, 311 stranded people, 26 dogs and one cat: How Operation Lentus pulled off a tricky rescue mission on Highway 7
					

Cormorant pilot touches down with a broken hydro pole less than a metre from one side of the spinning main rotor, and trees no further away on the other




					www.theglobeandmail.com


----------



## kev994 (19 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Gas rationing, and other emergency orders, announced by the BC Government.
> 
> You, you and you, come with me. The rest of you: panic
> 
> ...


Good time to have an electric car


----------



## Brad Sallows (19 Nov 2021)

Yeah.  Much better to wait out a night caught out on the roads in an electric car.


----------



## kev994 (19 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> Yeah.  Much better to wait out a night caught out on the roads in an electric car.


My comment was directly to a gas rationing article


----------



## rnkelly (20 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Maybe a 450 Det in YOY, but Hooks can hit YCX on a single tank, let alone barely finish a post-takeoff check before they hit YOY.  YOY barely gives time for a level-off check out of YWA.  I used to dread the PITA YWA-YOY hops in a 135 or even a 146, but coffee in a Hook’s barely off piping hot letting down into Traz.
> 
> The West would still benefit from a permanent presence if Scrooge McDuck would let loose a few gold doubloons to pick up some more Hooks.


You make a good point but strangely they still haven’t visited very many times. I just meant in terms of supporting 5GBMC the same as 1CMBG, that being said I guess 450 would have to get a flight or two of griffons to support 2CMBG since 427 is otherwise committed. I see other benefits from the cross pollination too; TTPs development, recruiting and retention (not just aircrew) to name a few.

Edit: I just realized I’m not really commenting substantively on the subject of this thread. Instead focusing on TacHel and my own little world. Since BC is my homeland, I will say that it’s crazy that the mainland isn’t better served by CAF assets. Great job to 442! But more choppers for this huge country seems prudent. I like KevinB‘s idea of consolidating our fleets and getting more of the mighty Hooks, especially like the idea of painting the first off the line Yellow and the rest green so that it’s more palatable to the powers that be. Shifting assets (equipment and personnel) depending on needs and just switching mission kits by our excellent techs. More cross-pollination (yes, I’m over-using this term)!!!


----------



## daftandbarmy (20 Nov 2021)

kev994 said:


> My comment was directly to a gas rationing article



I heard on the news that EV dealerships were being besieged with orders after they announced the rationing. Supply chain delays mean they won't get them for a year though:

Travel and gas restrictions now in place as flood cleanup underway in B.C.​Some residents of flood-ravaged town of Merritt to be allowed back to recover personal possessions​

*THE LATEST:*


Provincial officials have imposed limits on buying gas and travelling on B.C.'s damaged highways.
B.C. Agriculture Minister Lana Popham says 200 square kilometres of farmland have been flooded so far across southern B.C., and 959 farms were on evacuation order as of Friday evening.
Personnel from the army continue to arrive and assist with emergency operations, with a small group helping to repair a dike in the city of Abbotsford.
Transport Canada has banned non-essential boat travel in the flooded areas of the province.
More than 14,000 residents of B.C. remain on evacuation order following the flooding and landslides of the last week.
Some residents of Merritt, B.C., will be allowed back to their homes to recover personal possessions. An evacuation order was issued for the entire town of 7,000 last week.
For a list of up-to-date flood warnings, visit the *River Forecast Centre*.
 
British Columbians are starting to feel the effects of supply chain issues following floods and landslides that left thousands evacuated from their homes, highways destroyed and entire regions swamped.

It has been nearly a week since record-shattering rainfall left communities across southern B.C. devastated, with upwards of 14,000 still away from their homes due to floodwaters.

Those in flood-ravaged areas will now only be able to fill up to 30 litres of fuel per visit to the gas station as the supply chain continues to be affected. 

The emergency order, announced on Friday, covers drivers in the Lower Mainland-to-Hope region, the Sea-to-Sky region, the Sunshine Coast, the Gulf Islands and Vancouver Island. It will be in effect until Dec. 1. Essential vehicles will be exempt from the order.

"It's 10 to 11 days that we have to pull together as a province. If we're greedy, we'll fail," B.C. Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth told reporters at a news conference on Friday.

Farnworth said the storm forced the closure of the Trans Mountain pipeline, along with rail and highway links allowing the passage of fuel province-wide.

Fuel supplies are also coming in from Alberta, Washington, Oregon and California to help with the shortage.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wyntk-bc-floods-nov-20-1.6256765


----------



## OldTanker (20 Nov 2021)

It will be interesting to read the AARs regarding the evacuation of Merritt to see if any EVs were involved. It's a long drive to anywhere from Merritt and I suspect charging stations are few and far between. If I lived anywhere where evacuation was a possibility I would always ensure there was at least one gasoline-powered vehicle in the family. A new challenge for emergency planners and responders.


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> It will be interesting to read the AARs regarding the evacuation of Merritt to see if any EVs were involved. It's a long drive to anywhere from Merritt and I suspect charging stations are few and far between. If I lived anywhere where evacuation was a possibility I would always ensure there was at least one gasoline-powered vehicle in the family. A new challenge for emergency planners and responders.


There’s a supercharger within ~100 km in every direction.


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

kev994 said:


> There’s a supercharger within ~100 km in every direction.


Also a ton of non-Tesla chargers, the orange ones are fast chargers.


----------



## OldTanker (20 Nov 2021)

I stand corrected. Still not convinced EVs are the answer in an emergency evacuation, but I guess there are more chargers than I appreciated. Comes from not driving an EV!


----------



## Good2Golf (20 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> It will be interesting to read the AARs regarding the evacuation of Merritt to see if any EVs were involved. It's a long drive to anywhere from Merritt and I suspect charging stations are few and far between. If I lived anywhere where evacuation was a possibility I would always ensure there was at least one gasoline-powered vehicle in the family. A new challenge for emergency planners and responders.


Diesel would be a better bet.  

You could always siphon some from one of these sitting back from a washed out bridge…


----------



## daftandbarmy (20 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> I stand corrected. Still not convinced EVs are the answer in an emergency evacuation, but I guess there are more chargers than I appreciated. Comes from not driving an EV!



There are always people like this willing to help out, thank Gawd:


----------



## Good2Golf (20 Nov 2021)

Surprised that the font for PILOT was so small… 😉


----------



## KevinB (20 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Surprised that the font for PILOT was so small… 😉


I thought only *FIGHTER PILOTS* needed to let everyone know it...


----------



## Brad Sallows (20 Nov 2021)

During a prolonged emergency affecting grid (delivery), EVs would gradually become more useless.  ICEs in absence of fuel delivery would also be limited, but gas is easier to swap between vehicles.


----------



## quadrapiper (20 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Send it, Bob:
> 
> "I am a professional emergency manager with more than 20 years’ experience. The recent rainfall event has only confirmed the state of disaster unpreparedness in B.C.
> 
> ...


The local authorities seem happy to maintain an office then download the heavy lifting as far as funding equipment, and often buildings, to SAR groups' attached societies: not sure what VFD funding looks like, but while better, I _think_ it's similar in a need to source funds from other than the local government for at least some gear.

SAR volunteers needing to take a chunk of the finite time they have to allocate to "SAR stuff other than actual callouts" and devote it to fundraising is ridiculous.


----------



## Brad Sallows (20 Nov 2021)

Nothing like a good actuarial analysis to sort things out.  Add up the costs of what amounts to self-insurance (eg. compensation and rebuilding), compare to costs of preventive measures.

Reading today of references to 1-in-200-year floods in a study prepared a while back.  Obvious inference: we get these with or without climate change.


----------



## brihard (20 Nov 2021)

There’s another RCAF C-17 westbound over Saskatchewan right now, out of Quebec City. Follow on materiel for the Tac Hel deployment?


----------



## MilEME09 (20 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> There’s another RCAF C-17 westbound over Saskatchewan right now, out of Quebec City. Follow on materiel for the Tac Hel deployment?


1st flight was 3 griffins, still got to get the rest of the kit there too


----------



## brihard (20 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> 1st flight was 3 griffins, still got to get the rest of the kit there too


Makes sense. I have no idea what kind of ‘parts package’ a three ship move of griffins entails, but I imagine it’s a lot.


----------



## MilEME09 (20 Nov 2021)

Floodgates partially open in Abbotsford, dike repair more than half complete, mayor says
					

Crews in Abbotsford are making good progress in their race against time to close a roughly 100-metre gap in the Sumas River dike, and they're being aided by the partial opening of floodgates at the Barrowtown Pump Station, according to Mayor Henry Braun.




					bc.ctvnews.ca
				




Okay I had no idea till now that Abbotsford was built on a drained lake, in hind sight that was a pretty poor plan. With more rain on the way this is going to get uglier


----------



## brihard (20 Nov 2021)

So if they’re flooding soldiers in to fix the dike, is that a levee en masse?


----------



## daftandbarmy (20 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> So if they’re flooding soldiers in to fix the dike, is that a levee en masse?


----------



## Colin Parkinson (20 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> During a prolonged emergency affecting grid (delivery), EVs would gradually become more useless.  ICEs in absence of fuel delivery would also be limited, but gas is easier to swap between vehicles.


EV's burn electricity just sitting there, particularly when it's cold, so an area without power for a substantial amount of time is going to see a lot of dead EV's. If I lived in the interior, i might buy a Hybrid, but not an EV.


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> EV's burn electricity just sitting there, particularly when it's cold, so an area without power for a substantial amount of time is going to see a lot of dead EV's. If I lived in the interior, i might buy a Hybrid, but not an EV.


Fact check: my battery heater comes on if the battery itself (which has a lot of thermal mass) gets below -25. I had it in Winnipeg for 2 years and it never came on at all the entire time. Phantom drain we’re talking like 1% a day, so if it lasts like a month it will start to become an issue. If you run all the cameras on a Tesla it can be a problem but you can turn those off.


----------



## brihard (20 Nov 2021)

kev994 said:


> Fact check: my battery heater comes on if the battery itself (which has a lot of thermal mass) gets below -25. I had it in Winnipeg for 2 years and it never came on at all the entire time. Phantom drain we’re talking like 1% a day, so if it lasts like a month it will start to become an issue. If you run all the cameras on a Tesla it can be a problem but you can turn those off.


If you got caught in a snowstorm, blocked between landslides, or something like that, how long could you simply sit there and keep the heater running in -20 so you don't freeze?


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> If you got caught in a snowstorm, blocked between landslides, or something like that, how long could you simply sit there and keep the heater running in -20 so you don't freeze?


Where is there landslides at -20? They almost all have heat pumps now, so pick a more reasonable temperature like freezing level and it will last days. Long after everyone is out of gasoline.


----------



## brihard (20 Nov 2021)

kev994 said:


> Where is there landslides at -20? They almost all have heat pumps now, so pick a more reasonable temperature like freezing level and it will last days. Long after everyone is out of gasoline.


Sorry, I'm out in Ontario and was more thinking 'caught in a blizzard' scenario. I'm wondering how long a modern EV with a battery in good shape will last compared to a car or SUV with a full tank of gas, if the task is to prevent you becoming an icicle.

This isn't a challenge. Genuine curiosity borne of ignorance of EVs.


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Sorry, I'm out in Ontario and was more thinking 'caught in a blizzard' scenario. I'm wondering how long a modern EV with a battery in good shape will last compared to a car or SUV with a full tank of gas, if the task is to prevent you becoming an icicle.
> 
> This isn't a challenge. Genuine curiosity borne of ignorance of EVs.


OK, that makes more sense. If you have an older one, like an early Leaf, they have a pretty small battery (24 kWh) and the heater at full blast runs 3 kW, so if you were to crank it you could drain it in 8 hours, I’ve never tried it. The short range model 3 has a 53.6 kWh battery, I know it has a heat pump that’s supposed to be fairly efficient but I have no idea how much power it’s using. The difference from your gas car is that it’s not creating heat as a by-product so it’s instant and the higher temp you select the more power it’s going to use.

Edit: if you can find a regular 120v outlet that runs at 1.3 kw, painful to add enough to drive anywhere but it will run a heater reasonably well.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (20 Nov 2021)

kev994 said:


> Fact check: my battery heater comes on if the battery itself (which has a lot of thermal mass) gets below -25. I had it in Winnipeg for 2 years and it never came on at all the entire time. Phantom drain we’re talking like 1% a day, so if it lasts like a month it will start to become an issue. If you run all the cameras on a Tesla it can be a problem but you can turn those off.


I just know from my reading is that a Tesla over a cold winter, outside on 110v will not be able to charge enough to stay ahead of parasite drain.


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> I just know from my reading is that a Tesla over a cold winter, outside on 110v will not be able to charge enough to stay ahead of parasite drain.


Sentry mode apparently uses a lot of juice, I don’t have one but from what I understand it’s watching for and recording vandals and it can be turned on and off. Presumably you wouldn’t need that in a snowstorm or other emergency.
I left my Leaf unplugged in the garage in Winnipeg in Jan for 8 days, it would have been right around the freezing level, I think I lost 1 or 2 percent, I remember it was a lot less than I expected. I had a trickle charger on the 12v so that would have stopped the car from topping that up but it would not have charged the main battery.
Edit: Bjorn (does a ton of Tesla reviews/testing) lost 10% in 22 days, doesn’t give a temp but it was snowing. He lives in Norway. Bjorn Article


----------



## kev994 (20 Nov 2021)

Back on topic: that’s a lot of stuff in a 146!!


----------



## MilEME09 (20 Nov 2021)

kev994 said:


> View attachment 67239Back on topic: that’s a lot of stuff in a 146!!


Pretty cool, though for such a task wouldn't we want chinooks?


----------



## daftandbarmy (21 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> I just know from my reading is that a Tesla over a cold winter, outside on 110v will not be able to charge enough to stay ahead of *parasite drain.*



I had a girlfriend like that once


----------



## MilEME09 (21 Nov 2021)

Follow on forces have begun deploying, the rest of LdSH(RC) loaded up this morning to head to BC, anyone hear if BC reservists have been called on yet?


----------



## armrdsoul77 (21 Nov 2021)

Is it true that EV owners can also recharge the battery with their inflated sense of self?


----------



## daftandbarmy (21 Nov 2021)

It's started...


‘They drained us’: Burnaby man says gas thieves siphoned street amid restrictions​
John went to his car on a South Burnaby street Saturday morning and saw something weird.

The flap on his gas tank was open.

“I thought that I must’ve left it open when I filled up on Friday night,” he said. “I was wrong.”

Instead, John saw that the plastic cover on the gas tank was also open. That’s when he realized something was really wrong.

“When I fired up my car, my gauge said my gas tank was on empty,” said John, who doesn’t want to identify the street in case other thieves get any bright ideas. “Someone had siphoned out all of the gas. I got out and took a look around and saw the flaps open on most of the cars on our street. They drained us.”

John admits he raced to the gas station Friday night after the provincial government announced restricted access to gas for 10-11 days in some parts of B.C.

Mike Farnworth, B.C.’s minister of public safety and solicitor general, said access to gas will be prioritized for emergency and essential vehicles, granting them unrestricted access to gas using commercial card-lock stations. Non-essential vehicles used by average British Columbian will be restricted to 30 litres of gas per visit in southwestern B.C. (from Metro Vancouver east to Hope), Vancouver Island and the Sunshine Coast.

“I guess I shouldn’t be surprised,” John said. “Gas just became that much more valuable and so you get people stealing it. It’s a pretty sad situation. Of course, I didn’t follow the 30-litre thing so I maybe this is karma.”









						‘They drained us’: Burnaby man says gas thieves siphoned street amid restrictions
					

People are restricted to 30 litres, but it's on an honour system




					www.timescolonist.com


----------



## kev994 (21 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> It's started...
> 
> 
> ‘They drained us’: Burnaby man says gas thieves siphoned street amid restrictions​
> ...


The logistics of that is… they had to have had a slip tank, presumably they’re going to sell it but how do you even do that?


----------



## Good2Golf (21 Nov 2021)

What happened to locking fuel doors when the car’s locked?


----------



## Quirky (21 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> What happened to locking fuel doors when the car’s locked?


Locking doors are about as good as locking lug nuts. If thieves want it, they’ll get it.


----------



## MilEME09 (21 Nov 2021)

Quirky said:


> Locking doors are about as good as locking lug nuts. If thieves want it, they’ll get it.


Absolutely, and of they are good, they can move fast. Unless police step up patrols, there isn't much to deter, or catch


----------



## Good2Golf (21 Nov 2021)

Which means they were pros, with high-flow electric boost pumps rigged on a mini-blivet in a stealthed car…probably a minivan camouflaged like a taxi so late night wouldn’t look suspicious. Probably looked like an F1 pit stop but in reverse…


----------



## dangerboy (21 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> What happened to locking fuel doors when the car’s locked?


If it is like my jeep, it is not lockable. You just push on it and it opens, doesn't even have a gas cap that you could lock. Now I am lucky as I have a garage that I keep my jeep in so that provides some deterrent, but as said if they really want to they could get at it.


----------



## Brad Sallows (21 Nov 2021)

Reminds me of when locking gas caps were popular.


----------



## daftandbarmy (21 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Which means they were pros, with high-flow electric boost pumps rigged on a mini-blivet in a stealthed car…probably a minivan camouflaged like a taxi so late night wouldn’t look suspicious. Probably looked like an F1 pit stop but in reverse…



Dude. Have you got an alibi?


----------



## daftandbarmy (22 Nov 2021)

It ain't over till it's over.... and it ain't over:

Highway 3 closed again after mudslide east of Manning Park​ 
There's no estimated time of reopening.

A new washout has closed Highway 3 between Hope and Princeton.

DriveBC says the critical link is now closed in both directions due to a mudslide seven kilometres east of Manning Park.

Details are limited, but roads contractor Emil Anderson said on social media that crews are responding and traffic is being stopped at both ends.

There is no estimated time of reopening. There is no detour available.

The Hope-Princeton Highway has been the designated route for commercial vehicle traffic between the Lower Mainland and the B.C. Interior since Friday. Usage of the corridor has been limited to essential travel only.

Highway 99, the Duffey Lake Road, remains open and is now the only link between the Lower Mainland and Interior.









						Highway 3 reopens after washout east of Manning Park
					

Drivers should expect 'major' delays.




					www.timescolonist.com


----------



## RangerRay (22 Nov 2021)

Katie Lewis: B.C.'s disaster communications has been slow and ineffective
					

It took B.C. three days to declare a state of emergency. The provincial emergency alert system does squat. And everyone keeps passing the buck.




					theline.substack.com
				




We don’t seem to do disaster response well in this country.


----------



## brihard (22 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> It ain't over till it's over.... and it ain't over:
> 
> Highway 3 closed again after mudslide east of Manning Park​
> There's no estimated time of reopening.
> ...


I wonder if the main body out of Edmonton made it through yet?


----------



## daftandbarmy (22 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> I wonder if the main body out of Edmonton made it through yet?



I just watched the news and they've opened up single lane alternating traffic through that slide on Hwy 3, so they should be able to get through.

However, starting Wednesday, we're back into 'belt fed storms' mode with over 100mm of rain forecast over about 4 or 5 days. Not as bad as the biblical event last week, but the ground is already waterlogged so all bets are off....


----------



## brihard (22 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> I just watched the news and they've opened up single lane alternating traffic through that slide on Hwy 3, so they should be able to get through.
> 
> However, starting Wednesday, we're back into 'belt fed storms' mode with over 100mm of rain forecast over about 4 or 5 days. Not as bad as the biblical event last week, but the ground is already waterlogged so all bets are off....


Most likely / most dangerous at this point?


----------



## daftandbarmy (22 Nov 2021)

brihard said:


> Most likely / most dangerous at this point?



Prince Rupert and area are headed for 150mm over a short period of time and, further south, it will be slightly less and spread over a few days. Snow is forecast for the Coq and environs, up to about 30cms, but that will melt pretty fast adding to the water load.

We're looking at a pretty big mess, on top of a mess, I'm guessing.


Incoming 'parade of storms' bad news for flood-soaked B.C.​
A "parade of storms" headed for southwest British Columbia could worsen flooding and mudslide conditions within the week, according to the meteorologist responsible for warning preparedness at Environment and Climate Change Canada.

Armel Castellan said the first storm system, expected to arrive Thursday, won't bring rains as heavy as those that triggered widespread destruction last week.

However, the precipitation will be significant enough to "exacerbate the vulnerabilities on the ground currently," he said.

"With the Thursday system, it is an atmospheric river, tapping into some subtropical moisture and heat. It's going to bring freezing levels [on mountains] up to 2,500 metres, so fairly high — there will be some snow melt with this moisture," he said.

Castellan predicts 40 to 70 millimetres falling in the flood-soaked Fraser Valley, and upwards of 100 millimetres on the North Shore mountains and Howe Sound.

After that system is tapped out, another atmospheric river is expected to follow in short order, hitting Saturday afternoon.

Castellan said with some areas already at 200 per cent the normal seasonal rainfall, the worry is the incoming rain will be falling on terrain that is already saturated. On hillsides, that means a greater likelihood of water running downhill and causing mudslides and valley flooding.

"I would just caution that we are dealing with very active weather for the foreseeable future," he said. 

A series of warnings and special weather statements is also in effect for the northern half of the province, primarily for dangerously strong winds and snowfall.

And snowfall warnings have been issued for the Fraser Valley and Fraser Canyon, which have already been pummeled by relentless rain and impacted by highway closures.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-weather-alerts-1.6257938


----------



## lenaitch (23 Nov 2021)

RangerRay said:


> Katie Lewis: B.C.'s disaster communications has been slow and ineffective
> 
> 
> It took B.C. three days to declare a state of emergency. The provincial emergency alert system does squat. And everyone keeps passing the buck.
> ...


No kidding.  Politicians are loath to spend money on things that don't have a calculated 'vote benefit'.  Spending money on equipment stores (remember PPE stockpiles?) or adequate personnel or systems to adequately surge always fail in the face of the thousand other things that researchers and polls tell them the public wants.  Maybe - hopefully - as events become more frequent they will read the tea leaves that the public wants this.  Or they will just hope it doesn't happen until the next government is in power.


----------



## KevinB (23 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Which means they were pros, with high-flow electric boost pumps rigged on a mini-blivet in a stealthed car…probably a minivan camouflaged like a taxi so late night wouldn’t look suspicious. Probably looked like an F1 pit stop but in reverse…


Or a guy in an EV...


----------



## MilEME09 (23 Nov 2021)

Facebook
					






					www.facebook.com
				





So highway 8 is effectively gone, and out of the picture for a long time.


----------



## daftandbarmy (23 Nov 2021)

Everyone on the Coast is looking forward to the next 'storm parade' like an impending trip to the gallows:

Heavy storms headed for southwest B.C., threatening recovery from floods and landslides​Up to 80 mm of rain forecast for parts of the province's South Coast on Thursday​
Provincial ministers provide update on state of emergency in B.C.​

*THE LATEST:*


More adverse weather is headed for B.C., which could worsen the mudslide situation.
Officials say goods and services are starting to move throughout B.C., but forecasted rainfall could cause more problems.
CN railways plans to resume service between Vancouver and Kamloops on Wednesday.
The City of Merritt has released a plan for residents to return home after the city of 7,000 was evacuated when flood waters damaged the wastewater treatment facility last week. Residents could start returning as early as Tuesday.
A washout cut off access to Princeton on Monday, but Highway 3 has since been reopened for essential travel.
Trans Mountain Corp. says its pipeline could be restarted by the end of the week. It was shut off Nov. 14 as a result of flooding.
For information about highway conditions in B.C., click here.
For a list of up-to-date flood warnings, visit the River Forecast Centre.
 
As B.C. moves forward on recovering from severe flooding that forced the evacuation of thousands last week, another series of storms is in the forecast, which could set progress back. 



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wyntk-bc-floods-nov-23-1.6259055?ref=mobilerss&cmp=newsletter_CBC%20News%20Top%20Headlines%20%20%E2%80%93%20Evening_1617_339166


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## lenaitch (23 Nov 2021)

Canadian Pacific line re-opened.









						Canadian Pacific reopens B.C. rail corridor
					

MELFORT, Sask. - There is still a lot of work to do as Canadian Pacific Rail (CP) resumes traffic on British Columbia lines.CP announced it reopened i...




					panow.com


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## daftandbarmy (25 Nov 2021)

That's not good....

Refinery that supplies estimated one-third of Lower Mainland gas runs out of crude oil​ 
Three of the main ways gas is supplied to the Lower Mainland and elsewhere in B.C. were disrupted by the flooding.


VANCOUVER — A refinery that supplies an estimated one-third of the gas to the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island said Tuesday it has stopped processing operations because it had run out of crude oil due to the Trans Mountain pipeline shutdown after last week’s catastrophic flooding.

Calgary-based Parkland Corp.’s Burnaby refinery is now in “standby mode,” so that it can resume processing quickly once new shipments of crude arrive via the pipeline or rail.

“Parkland maintains some crude-oil storage on-site, so up until today, it has been able to continue operations,” said Kent Fellows, a professor at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy

He said there is storage of crude oil as well as gasoline and diesel in the Lower Mainland that can be relied upon in the short run, but he hasn’t been able to find data on how much storage there is or how full it was before the flooding.

Three of the main ways gas is supplied to the Lower Mainland and elsewhere in B.C. were disrupted by the flooding.

“Trans Mountain would also normally be shipping about 27,000 barrels per day of gasoline and diesel from refineries near Edmonton to the Lower Mainland in B.C.,” said Fellows.









						Refinery that supplies estimated one-third of Lower Mainland gas runs out of crude oil
					

Three of the main ways gas is supplied to the Lower Mainland and elsewhere in B.C. were disrupted by the flooding.




					www.timescolonist.com


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## Good2Golf (25 Nov 2021)

So more of an 'aside' question...so in all this, Trans Mountain 1 didn't rip apart and spew oil everywhere?  Hmmm.


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## SeaKingTacco (25 Nov 2021)

No. And the new TMX pipeline that the BC NDP fought tooth and nail to sink was untouched. Almost like it was built to modern standards, or something…


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## Good2Golf (25 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> No. And the new TMX pipeline that the BC NDP fought tooth and nail to sink was untouched. Almost like it was built to modern standards, or something…


Imagine that....    _sigh_


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## dimsum (25 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Imagine that....    _sigh_


I wonder if anyone has tried to mention those examples to the current protestors in northern BC


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## Good2Golf (25 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> I wonder if anyone has tried to mention those examples to the current protestors in northern BC


I think the LNG piece is a different kettle of fish, dimsum.  Internal clashing with spillover to impact prosperity and reduced overall COs levels (LNG offsetting coal emissions, etc.)  Perhaps the First Nations bodies in the region should consider an "Elected vs Hereditary" Thunderdome to sort things out?


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## SeaKingTacco (25 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> I think the LNG piece is a different kettle of fish, dimsum.  Internal clashing with spillover to impact prosperity and reduced overall COs levels (LNG offsetting coal emissions, etc.)  Perhaps the First Nations bodies in the region should consider an "Elected vs Hereditary" Thunderdome to sort things out?


Even the CBC is starting to catch on. Carol Off was interviewing one of the ”land defenders”. She wasn’t exactly kind.


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## dimsum (25 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> Even the CBC is starting to catch on. Carol Off was interviewing one of the ”land defenders”. She wasn’t exactly kind.


Can you share a link to that interview?


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## SeaKingTacco (25 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> Can you share a link to that interview?


I am a bit of a luddite, but it was on “As it happens” on 24 Nov. I only caught a part of it but she was pressing pretty hard on the theme of “what gives you the authority to blockade a pipeline that 90% of your fellow first nation people wants and approved”.


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## dimsum (25 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> I am a bit of a luddite, but it was on “As it happens” on 24 Nov. I only caught a part of it but she was pressing pretty hard on the theme of “what gives you the authority to blockade a pipeline that 90% of your fellow first nation people wants and approved”.


I found it on here - scroll to "Nov 24".  It plays the whole thing though, and I don't know when that exact part starts.





__





						Google Podcasts
					






					podcasts.google.com


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## SeaKingTacco (25 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> I found it on here - scroll to "Nov 24".  It plays the whole thing though, and I don't know when that exact part starts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hence, my luddite comment…


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## daftandbarmy (25 Nov 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> I am a bit of a luddite, but it was on “As it happens” on 24 Nov. I only caught a part of it but she was pressing pretty hard on the theme of “what gives you the authority to blockade a pipeline that 90% of your fellow first nation people wants and approved”.



It's a 'mega complex mega project':


LNG, BC and Me: Five Surprising Things I’ve Learned over the Past Three Years​









						LNG, BC and Me: Five Surprising Things I’ve Learned over the Past Three Years
					

What I learned - and what you need to know - about the liquefied natural gas industry.




					www.cmc-canada.ca


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## Brad Sallows (25 Nov 2021)

>Refinery that supplies estimated one-third of Lower Mainland gas runs out of crude oil​
Another helpful event which might refocus some people to think about the impacts of aggressive "de-carbonization".


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## armrdsoul77 (25 Nov 2021)

Chinook has arrived in Abbotsford.


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## dimsum (25 Nov 2021)

armrdsoul77 said:


> Chinook has arrived in Abbotsford.


In a completely unrelated comment, how many RSMs, CSMs, and other folks in Gagetown and elsewhere are ready to give a blast for not blousing your pants, until they realize it's the new CADPAT flight suit?


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## Good2Golf (25 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> In a completely unrelated comment, how many RSMs, CSMs, and other folks in Gagetown and elsewhere are ready to give a blast for not blousing your pants, until they realize it's the new CADPAT flight suit?


The Army knows Tac Hel operated in CADPAT flying gear.  I’d be very surprised if it’s even on any SNCM’s mind.  The usual SOP is their asking to check out a beast that can carry 10 tons (like an M777 howitzer and battery’s worth of 155mm ammo) at 250 km/h…


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## kev994 (25 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> >Refinery that supplies estimated one-third of Lower Mainland gas runs out of crude oil​
> Another helpful event which might refocus some people to think about the impacts of aggressive "de-carbonization".


I don’t understand what you’re getting at, if there’s a reduced amount of gas and diesel available, and presumably a price increase to go with that, wouldn’t that make people want devices/cars that use something other than gas and diesel? Or maybe less of it?


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## Brad Sallows (25 Nov 2021)

Maybe.  It might also wake them up to the implications of artificially-created shortages of gas and diesel and a ceiling on the size of the fleet which can be supported by current generating capacity.


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## dimsum (25 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> The Army knows Tac Hel operated in CADPAT flying gear. I’d be very surprised if it’s even on any SNCM’s mind.


Spoil-sport.


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## MilEME09 (25 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> Maybe.  It might also wake them up to the implications of artificially-created shortages of gas and diesel and a ceiling on the size of the fleet which can be supported by current generating capacity.


You mean if we developed our resources properly, gas could be no where near where it is, or could bring in massive tax revenue compared to what we get?


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## Brad Sallows (26 Nov 2021)

"We" keep putting the LPC in control of the policy levers, so I suppose "we" are SOL in that respect.


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## daftandbarmy (27 Nov 2021)

Feet and knees together... 100+ mm inbound

More areas placed under flood watch in southern B.C., as province braces for return of storms​
*THE LATEST:*


Up to 120 millimetres of rain is set to fall on the southern parts of British Columbia on Saturday, threatening communities already ravaged by floods and mudslides.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced that a new committee will be formed to manage the province's recovery from the flooding disaster.
The River Forecast Centre has issued a flood watch for the South Coast, Lower Fraser Valley and the southern regions of Vancouver Island.
More than 2,000 residents in Merritt are under a boil water advisory after being allowed to return home, following the evacuation of the city due to floods.
Three highways will be proactively closed on Saturday afternoon as the province braces for more damage from storms.
The provincial and federal governments will be matching all donations to the Red Cross's flood fundraising campaign for one month, tripling the donation amount for each individual donation.
For a list of up-to-date flood warnings, visit the River Forecast Centre.
 
Communities throughout southern B.C. are preparing for an atmospheric river to strike on Saturday, even as federal plans to help the province recover from devastating floods and mudslides were announced.

Rain has started to fall in the region, but the heaviest precipitation is set to arrive on Saturday night, according to Environment Canada, which issued a rainfall warning on Friday and warned of another storm front arriving on Tuesday.

More than 100 millimetres of rain will hit near the mountains in southern B.C., with 80 millimetres of rain set to fall on the Fraser Valley, an area southeast of Metro Vancouver devastated by floods two weeks ago.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau visited the community of Abbotsford in the Fraser Valley on Friday, seeing flood damage first-hand and talking to local officials, first responders and First Nations leaders.

Hundreds of people remain away from their homes due to the disaster, with supply chains still constrained and communities still dealing with standing water.

Abbotsford Mayor Henry Braun said the estimated 220 millimetres of rain falling on the city over the next five days would be a "situation they had never faced before."

Trudeau said he saw "amazing" strength and resilience from first responders in Abbotsford, and he praised community efforts in the wake of the floods.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wyntk-bc-floods-nov-27-1.6265162


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## daftandbarmy (28 Nov 2021)

Well done that Rocky Mountain Ranger!

Anatomy of a rescue: How heroic strangers saved injured Surrey family from a mudslide​
It was a struggle for the determined dad and nurse to carry the 6-foot-2 teenager over the many mounds of debris lying between the van and a life-saving rope.

A 15-metre rope dangling down the embankment had been tied to a utility pole at the top by another stranded motorist, an infantry soldier with the Rocky Mountain Rangers, a Canadian Armed Forces reserve unit.









						Anatomy of a rescue: How heroic strangers saved injured Surrey family from a mudslide
					






					www.timescolonist.com


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## brihard (28 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Well done that Rocky Mountain Ranger!
> 
> Anatomy of a rescue: How heroic strangers saved injured Surrey family from a mudslide​
> It was a struggle for the determined dad and nurse to carry the 6-foot-2 teenager over the many mounds of debris lying between the van and a life-saving rope.
> ...



Here’s an opportunity for the H&A system to prove itself. Bloody good work.


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## MilEME09 (28 Nov 2021)

Serious question for a second, if a large scale mud slide say blocked a river and started to form a new lake, would we restore the river or let nature takes its course?


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## brihard (28 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Serious question for a second, if a large scale mud slide say blocked a river and started to form a new lake, would we restore the river or let nature takes its course?


Probably would depend on the infrastructure/human impact.


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## Brad Sallows (28 Nov 2021)

Well, no-one has seriously tried to restore Outram Lake to its original configuration...


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## MilEME09 (28 Nov 2021)

Fresh flooding prompts new evacuations in Abbotsford, B.C., as water spills in from Wash. state
					

The Nooksack River in Washington state has overtopped its dike, and the City of Abbotsford is expecting floodwaters to cross the U.S. border, Mayor Henry Braun said Sunday afternoon.




					bc.ctvnews.ca
				




Nooksack river has broken its banks, and dikes, flood waters to hit Abbotsford this afternoon. At this point we can only hope the reinforcement done will be enough, with more rain on the way, this is about to get much much worse. 

Only thing missing now to make this go even more south is an earth quake.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Fresh flooding prompts new evacuations in Abbotsford, B.C., as water spills in from Wash. state
> 
> 
> The Nooksack River in Washington state has overtopped its dike, and the City of Abbotsford is expecting floodwaters to cross the U.S. border, Mayor Henry Braun said Sunday afternoon.
> ...



And the 'record breaking' storm coming in on Tuesday is almost as big as the bad one last week:

Officials urge vigilance as southwest B.C. prepares for more storm activity​​Heavy rains expected to ease in southwest ahead of possible record-setting storm​*THE LATEST:*


Heavy rains are expected to ease in southwestern B.C. before another possible record-setting storm arrives Tuesday.
Some parts of the region saw up to 120 millimetres of rain.
A flood warning was issued for the Coquihalla River and Sumas River including Sumas Prairie. For all flood advisories see here.
On Sunday evacuation orders were issued for properties in the Huntingdon Village area of Abbotsford and in the Thompson-Nicola Regional District. For more on evacuation alerts and orders see here.
Highways in B.C. continue to be affected by previous damage or new flooding. For a full list of closures, see here.
Officials in Abbotsford are anxiously watching the Nooksack River in Washington State.
 
British Columbia officials are urging vigilance as the province faces more storm activity, adding to the already dire flood situation.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-floods-nov-28-1.6265803


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## armrdsoul77 (29 Nov 2021)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/yale-bc-canadian-armed-forces-helicopter-1.6266092


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## Quirky (29 Nov 2021)

Time to dike the border and direct all the water west?


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## daftandbarmy (30 Nov 2021)

Coming right up...


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Coming right up...


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## daftandbarmy (1 Dec 2021)

Whoa...


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## daftandbarmy (7 Dec 2021)

Army reserves to the rescue

It was gratifying to see personnel of the Canadian Armed Forces being credited for their work in mitigating flood damage in the Greater Victoria area.

It would have been more so if they had been identified as members of local army reserve units, and specifically 5th B.C. Field Regiment, the Canadian Scottish, 39 Service Battalion, 11 Field Ambulance and 39 Signals Regiment who, with their forebears, have volunteered their time to face down local and national emergencies for more than a century.

The federal government has withdrawn all its full-time army units from this province, so when the call comes to “send the army” to fight fires, floods, or insurgents in Afghanistan, it is these folks who leave their comfortable civilian existence to do much of the heavy lifting. Many have full-time jobs and family commitments and may even be your neighbours.

Their compensation has improved in recent years, but it’s not extensive. Most will not admit it, but loyalty to the nation and their units provide the bulk of their motivation.

Recognition by the community as represented by its media is also important because if these part-time soldiers were not there, neither would we be.

John Appleby









						Letters Dec. 7, 2021: Revive Island's passenger rail service; sunflowers could help deal with biosolids
					

Island rail corridor a permanent solution The recent closure of a section of the Malahat highway underscores the need for more effective transportation planning.




					www.timescolonist.com


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## daftandbarmy (20 Dec 2021)

Boom....

Daphne Bramham: Blame flood disaster on policy-makers who study but don't act​Opinion: Premier John Horgan said this weeks events were 'not contemplated before.' Nonsense, we've had repeated warnings

Over the past year, British Columbians have had front-row seats to the grim reality of climate disasters.

At least 599 people have died due to climate emergencies — 595 from this summer’s extreme heat, two to wildfires and one reported so far from this week’s flooding with the toll expected to rise once flood waters recede and crews search through the debris. 

Some 17,775 people were evacuated as of mid-week due to impacts from the flooding – of British Columbians have evacuated farms, towns and cities ahead of fires and floods. Hundreds more have had bags packed ready to go.

The disasters have been epic.

The town of Lytton was obliterated, burned to the ground as wildfires ravaged an area roughly 1.5 times the size of Prince Edward Island, nearly 8,700 square kilometres.

 For several days, Vancouver — Canada’s third largest city with one of North America’s busiest ports — was cut off with both road and rail links severed. Merritt’s 7,100 residents fled as the water rose. 
Thousands of farm animals have perished after barns and fields turned into pools and lakes.

The full economic impact of these catastrophes will take months to tally. It will take much longer still to repair critical infrastructure and people’s lives.

All that is left undiminished during this terrible year is people’s selfless willingness to help strangers and the ingenuity they’ve employed to provide it.

We’ve learned new language to describe events from heat domes to atmospheric rivers even as we’ve started to run out of words to describe their effects. Unprecedented, extraordinary, disastrous, catastrophic are losing their power as descriptors.

 Soon, we must surely run out of patience with the policy-makers who have fiddled too long while the province was on the brink of bursting into flames only to be drenched to the point of drowning. 

Why is there no seemingly operable alert system? Where are the Canadian Armed Forces helicopters, Zodiacs, inflatable rafts, backhoes and other desperately needed equipment? Why has it been left to farmers and friends in aluminum boats and on Sea-Doos without proper protection to try to rescue people and livestock from the polluted flood waters?

It must finally be time to hold policy-makers accountable for what they’ve left undone. It must finally be time to insist that what was once unprecedented must treated with the same single-minded urgency as the global pandemic.

 Most urgently, we need plans for how to deal with the next fires, heat domes and atmospheric rivers. 
The tragedy is that British Columbia started out well enough.

In 2007, it was the first jurisdiction in North America to introduce a carbon tax in recognition that Canadians per capita emissions are among the highest in the world.

B.C. committed to reduce greenhouse gas a third by 2020 and 80 per cent by 2050. Other promises ranged from the exemplary to somewhat silly — new investments in clean energy, net-zero deforestation, a carbon-neutral public sector by 2010 and the greenest Olympics ever.

It’s not that anyone believed then or believes now that Canada alone can reduce emissions enough to slow rising temperatures. But at least back then, British Columbia and Canada were at least trying to lead by example.

 Except, we kept rearranging landscapes and building, and building, to accommodate an influx of a million people. 
Within a decade, things were off the rails.

In 2018, the auditor general reported that climate risks were not being properly managed, that B.C.’s temperature was increasing faster than the global average and that the province would miss both its 2020 and 2050 targets.

In stinging and prescient comments, Carol Bellringer predicted that the province “may not be able to manage flood risks, given that roles and responsibilities are spread across many agencies and levels of government, and these organizations may not have adequate staffing or technical capacity.”

Wildfire prevention was described as “insufficient”, “uncoordinated” and failed to target areas of highest risk.

 Indigenous communities and local governments on the front lines of disasters suffered from the lack of provincial policies as well as “financial support, reliable data and knowledge.” 
No one should take comfort from the fact that all of the country’s auditors general that year echoed Bellringer’s concerns in their collaborative report .

The auditor general’s report remains as good a description as any for what happened in British Columbia this year.

“Initial work” on a flood strategy and watershed security are among the “action highlights” in an August draft of B.C.’s Climate Preparedness and Adaptation Strategy. So is working to “improve public understanding of wildfire threats and B.C.’s changing climate.”

Mother Nature has more than taken care of both. 

It’s a bit late for modelling a range of scenarios. We’ve already lived through what Premier John Horgan described this week as “extraordinary events. Not measured before, not contemplated before.”

Except they were contemplated. The problem is nothing was done to prepare for them. Perhaps naively, more likely hopefully, policy-makers thought catastrophes couldn’t happen here.

Now, we know that they can and that they likely will again. There’s no excuse for not being ready.

Daphne Bramham: Blame flood disaster on policy-makers who study but don't act


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## dimsum (20 Dec 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Where are the Canadian Armed Forces helicopters, Zodiacs, inflatable rafts, backhoes and other desperately needed equipment?


Oh wait - people are saying they _want_ CAF assets (and presumably members) near cities now?


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## daftandbarmy (23 Feb 2022)

This just happened. Wow....

After weather disasters, emergency budget jumps to $436 million from $36 million​ 
Last year it was $36 million for operational support for disaster response and recovery. This year it’s $436 million.

B.C. officials are bracing for bad weather on a scale that up until last year was hard to imagine.

Tuesday’s budget earmarks serious new money for programs aimed at coping with weather-induced natural disasters of the sort that ravaged parts of B.C. in the past year.

Even while experts over the years have predicted with certainty that climate change is going to drive disasters, there was a feeling it was building gradually. Planning how to cope with them was a priority, but not a pressing one. Then the heat dome, wildfires and floods all hit in a period of months.

The hundreds of lives lost to heat and the multibillion-dollar losses incurred through winter flooding are now driving a race to prepare for what’s next, even while addressing last year’s losses.

The budget figures show it’s one of the biggest single-year priority adjustments ever made (apart from the pandemic). One line item illustrates how big. Every year the government makes an appropriation for the Emergency Program Act. Last year it was $36 million for operational support for disaster response and recovery.

This year it’s $436 million, 12 times as much, some of it allocated to cover damage already sustained.









						Les Leyne: After weather disasters, emergency budget jumps to $436 million from $36 million
					

Last year it was $36 million for operational support for disaster response and recovery. This year it’s $436 million.




					www.timescolonist.com


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