# Combats at LHQ



## Sgt_McWatt (9 Jun 2004)

I was recently informed at a practice that apparently cadets are no longer allowed to wear their combats in an LHQ setting because we look to military or because some one might confuse us with the real army or something stupid like that. Has any one else heard of this new rule? I don't think it makes scene personall. Because if we are going to fire air rifles on base they want us towear civis? I just don't understand what Cadets Canada is doing with us and what there trying to turn us into.
Any help with this would be awesome.
Thanks,


----------



## alexk (9 Jun 2004)

havent heared any thing about not wearing combats at LHQ, where are you getting this info from, rumor or is it being implemented at your corps.  My corps currently wears combats during training nights excluding CO's parades and when the RSM makes it Du's


----------



## MikeM (9 Jun 2004)

There is a standing order in the west which was recently implemented not too long ago, it stated that LHQ's are not permitted to allow combat clothing for wear. I know a few corps out there still wear them, but they are not supposed to. As for Central Region, I believe there is an order out there, but many corps are still wearing combats, including my own. I don't know if it is going to be nation-wide, but as far as I know, we will continue wearing combats.


----------



## Sgt_McWatt (9 Jun 2004)

I got the information from my CO. One night I had to teach cadets rest on your arms reverse so we could put on a quarter guard at the cenotaph. I wore combats to look professional. My CO. Told me I wasn't allowed to any more.


----------



## gt102 (9 Jun 2004)

I havnt heard any such thing...

but then again I havnt really worn combats on training nights since I was a CPL


----------



## MikeM (10 Jun 2004)

The way things are going, I suspect combats will be fully disallowed across Canada, except for summer training and optional training.


----------



## Sgt_McWatt (10 Jun 2004)

It's sad but I have to agree. Cadets is getting pussier and pussier every year. At this point Cadets has more rules that are stupid than boy scouts does. I wish we could convince them that we aren't in cadets because we want to be pussys but because we actually want to be cadets.


----------



## MikeM (11 Jun 2004)

I'll tell you what I tell my cadets... suck it up and soldier on, no matter how bad it gets... including myself.


----------



## calno (11 Jun 2004)

In all my time in cadets we have worn combats TWICE on a parade night, besides optional training and a few FTX's throughout the year. In regards to "taking the army out of cadets" check this article out written by my old RSM.

         http://142.59.159.170/gen/ptb_army_in_cdts.html


----------



## gt102 (11 Jun 2004)

That article I can agree with so much!!!

Boy scout can do  more then us!!!
For god sakes we are not even allowed to play Capture the flag because of some morons up top


"Some ppl may get attacked if we allow the cadets to go off on their own, and we cant have that"

When has this happened?, In all my (3) years as a cadet I have never seen or heard of a serious fight on cadet time! (Only exeption camp, basic, two morons had to much sugar)

CHAP is good but it is to restricting right now.
Wheres the fun, wheres the army!!!


----------



## Sgt_McWatt (11 Jun 2004)

Thats a really good article. I am currently working on my own just like that. What magazine is that in? because I was going to post my in cadence but if it was there than I wont because  it would be like most of the same things.


----------



## ex royal now flyer (11 Jun 2004)

Folks,

Lets not complain too much about not being able to wear combats.  I have be actively involved in the CF, in some capacity, since 1980.  The past 17 years has been in the reg force, 2 years before that in the reserves, and 5 years in the cadets (2814 Hamilton).  I joined 2814 in 1980.  Back then, we always wore our dress uniform except on Sports days.  Combats were permitted on FTX's but we had to buy them.  Thus, most of us did not have combats and were content wearing warm and dry civies.  During summer camps combats were not issued.  Cadets who went to Ipperwash for the summer wore green shorts, green T-shirt, and cheap canvas running shoes or ankle boots.  Even during the FTX's at Ipperwash we were only issued with long pants and long sleeve shirt (similar to a work dress uniform).  

I have not worked with cadets in a few years but I can say from personal experience the cadets have come a long way in the last 20 years.  Yes, there are good things and bad things but that same cliche will follow you through life.  My point is that being associated with a military organization you are required to follow direction.  I do not know the reason why you are being directed not to wear combats anymore but if it is a directive from a higher HQ you are expected to follow it.  I have done many things over the past 25 years that I did not understand, like, or agree with.  But, hey that is all part of life.  

Cadets is a great organization and as you get older you will appreciate more what you are being taught now, for use in both civilian life and a military career if you should choose.


----------



## Michael OLeary (11 Jun 2004)

I'm wondering where the response is to the linked article, the one that is mentioned in the editor's note at the bottom. Perhaps if we are to be presented with the "beef" we should also see the organization's rebuttal for balance.


----------



## mglasspo (18 Jun 2004)

I don't know if it is a national policy or a Central Region (Ontario) policy, but in Central Region, it has been a policy for at least 2 years, probably more like 3.

The rule seems to be that cadets can wear combats in the following situations:

- Field Training Exercises
- Rifle training

Also, a rule has come out that officers shall only wear combats one parade night a month.

I have really no sympathy for the cadet combat rules, as someone else mentioned, it has only been recently where corps wore combats most of the time. At my corps when i was a cadet (as recent as 7 years ago) we only wore combats for FTX training, speciality training and work details. The rest of the time was the cadet uniform of some form or other.


----------



## tabernac (18 Jun 2004)

> Cadets is getting pussier and pussier every year. At this point Cadets has more rules that are stupid than boy scouts does.



Who said I was a Chief Scout? Who?


----------



## Soon to be Medic (19 Jun 2004)

This is what I know.

  Army Cadets are not SOLDIERS. They are dedicated youth aged 12 to 18 who have an interest in Canadian Forces or curious about what is Cadets all about.Within 125 years if existance the roles of Army cadets have changed because of current events and unfortunate activities which painted a black picture on Army Cadets to society.We are Army cadets 
of 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003 and 2004. CHAP was implemented in 1998 in the Canadian Cadet Program. Many say it was the"pitfall"of Cadets and the reason Cadets is slacking is because of it. Which I think is C(@#. 

  Main reason why CHAP exists is because cadets were getting injured . Example stick in the middle. A fun game however,
cadets were being hurt. Your first reaction may be wussy to the cadet. Who knows what that particulat cadet has been through. That cadet can be called stuiped, fag and other horrible stuff at school.Let alone he/she has to deal with cadets being up to of her/him beating the living c(@& out of her/him. Alot of luggage. I say.

  Another point of CHAP is, there is nothing that is added, which is not against the law(we are not members of the military). It is like going though a red light.I love this quote "You only break yourself against the law" 

  Cadets still need to grow physicaly, emotionaly and sprituality, they are teenagers. Cadets have alot of time left if they want war games. If you want war games join the military. Anything else, is to have fun in Cadets.Don't let the small things bother you. 

 My last point is. Members of the miltary at times are not trained because of reasons. They get screwed over also.
It is not a new thing. It happends everywheres. "Ruck up and soldier on"


----------



## Tebo (19 Jun 2004)

If you really feel the need for training similar to section attacks I would direct you to join a rugby side or school team.  No other sport, in my experience, captures the spirit or physical requirments of an assault quite as well.  Additionally, you gain mental and physical toughness.  All this packaged in an arena based on fair play where the violence is limited to a tackle and not carried past a point no minor should have to contemplate too seriousely. But trust me, you will get fired up.

Good luck in whatever training you undertake.  I am greatly impressed to read so many well constructed posts, regardless of the author's viewpoint.


----------



## Soon to be Medic (19 Jun 2004)

Tebo said:
			
		

> If you really feel the need for training similar to section attacks I would direct you to join a rugby side or school team.   No other sport, in my experience, captures the spirit or physical requirments of an assault quite as well.   Additionally, you gain mental and physical toughness.   All this packaged in an arena based on fair play where the violence is limited to a tackle and not carried past a point no minor should have to contemplate too seriousely. But trust me, you will get fired up.
> 
> Good luck in whatever training you undertake.   I am greatly impressed to read so many well constructed posts, regardless of the author's viewpoint.



Go Rugby !


----------



## ags281 (22 Jun 2004)

> It's sad but I have to agree. Cadets is getting pussier and pussier every year. At this point Cadets has more rules that are stupid than boy scouts does.



Um... have you seen the new scout "uniforms"? Now there's a stupid policy. My girlfriend is a leader at a scout camp, and hearing some stories and seeing what they now pass of as their uniform is just plain sad. Cadets losing ground to scouts? Not likely.

The people complaining about nonsense policies and such and demanding more military type training in cadets are missing the irony here. It cannot possibly get more military than having to suck it up and press on despite policies that you might personally think are dumb. You're already learning one of the most important lessons you can for survival in both civy and military life: surviving bureaucracy with your sanity intact.   ;D


----------



## alexk (22 Jun 2004)

No i havent seen the new scout uniforms, would you like to enlighten us?


----------



## ags281 (22 Jun 2004)

alexk said:
			
		

> No i havent seen the new scout uniforms, would you like to enlighten us?



Basically a coloured T-shirt that doesn't even say scouts on it (it does have initials though). There's orange, green, and blue I think. It can be worn with either blue or tan pants, or shorts. Oh yeah, and the blue pants can be jeans if you want. Basically you can have 30 kids together, all in uniform, and none of them are uniform. They look like just a bunch of people in regular street clothes. So much for the definition of "uniform" or any sense of identity. 

What I understand from my girlfriend is that the national leaders decided to change to this because their numbers were dropping and they thought it was because the kids didn't like being in uniform. So far, she has yet to meet someone in scouts who agrees with this. Everyone so far points out that cadet numbers are soaring, so obviously it's not the uniform. In fact, a number of peolpe who have left scouts have done so to join cadets. This leads me to two conclusions: 1) it's the training, not the uniform, that is hurting scouts and 2) the training for cadets is much better.


----------



## Sgt.Fitzpatrick (25 Jun 2004)

This is cadets not scouts.I'm an air cadets we never got to wear are combats we had to wear are blues.I see some corps who let their cadets were combats and who what the pubic thinks about the combats thinkings looks too army,of couse it looks army because theier combats.WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPEN TO CADETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :threat:


----------



## Drummie (26 Jun 2004)

MikeM said:
			
		

> I'll tell you what I tell my cadets... suck it up and soldier on, no matter how bad it gets... including myself.



Funny how officers like to use those kind of military-like phrases on us  , but on the other hand everyone says, 'cadets are youth, they have emotions and feelings, and this isn't the army, blah blah blah.' Then maybe instead of "ruck up and soldier on", it should be "Aww, come on dear, everything's gonna be alright" ....that sounds about right for Cadets Canada don't it? :


----------



## ags281 (26 Jun 2004)

The Fighting 47th said:
			
		

> Funny how officers like to use those kind of military-like phrases on us   , but on the other hand everyone says, 'cadets are youth, they have emotions and feelings, and this isn't the army, blah blah blah.' Then maybe instead of "ruck up and soldier on", it should be "Aww, come on dear, everything's gonna be alright" ....that sounds about right for Cadets Canada don't it? :



Sorry, can't do that either. Someone might CHAP you for calling them "dear"   :dontpanic:


----------



## THEARMYGUY (17 Aug 2004)

OK.  So to get back on track here, I believe that we were discussing combat clothing at the LHQ.  I was with a unit last TRG year and we did receive a memo from our DET.(EOA)  The just of it was that combat clothing would NOT be worn on regular TRG nights for any reason other than "field" TRG.  Combat clothing was authorized for use during field exercises as well as loading and unloading of kit for said exercises.  That was about it.  CIC officers are also included in this memo.  Same rules apply.

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


----------



## THEARMYGUY (18 Aug 2004)

Instead of complaining about how 'bad' cadets is, get out there and enjoy it, take what you can from it, learn what you can, and then, if you really want to be in the army...go to your local recruiting center and sign up (like I did). Get what you can out of cadets. If you are all for joining the CF, cadets is a stepping stone. You start out in cadets, learn some basic skills; leadership, drill, markesmenship, PT, how to do your uniform etc. Then when your 16-17, go into the Reserves. Get a taste of what the CF is really like, do that for a few years as you go through college/university (or go to RMC...) and then if you are totally sure you want that kind of lifestyle...transfer into the Regular force. That is my plan...and so far it is working out perfectly. Instead of complaining about cadets, look at the good side, get what you can out of it, learn some skills (shooting, music, drill, instruction techniques) at summer camp and use those to your advantage in your future military.civilian career instead of sitting back and saying how bad it is.  


OK.  Just wondering what that has to do with combats at the LHQ????

Just curious.

Cheers!!! 

The Army Guy


----------



## catalyst (18 Aug 2004)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> We are the best youth(Y-O-U-T-H) organisation in Canada. And trust me, you think Cadets is anal retentive when it comes to rules, you obviously were never in Scouts. Don't like it, join the army when you turn 16.



Um, well, I wouldn't say it is the best organization. There is no "BEST" organization. Its pretty good though, and along with scouts, Girl Guides, Church Groups, etc, it is well thought of in canadian communities

And now back to combats at LHQ


----------



## Yard Ape (19 Aug 2004)

THE ARMY GUY said:
			
		

> Combat clothing was authorized for use during field exercises as well as loading and unloading of kit for said exercises.  That was about it.  CIC officers are also included in this memo.  Same rules apply.


This is good.   Just as we were dumping the Garrison Dress I recall meeting a CIC officer who decided he would only wear combats on trg nights because he could not be bothered to iron or polish.   What kind of example was this setting for his cadets who were expected to show up in their parade uniforms every week?!

To those who feel that not wearing a CF Combat uniform makes cadets "pussier":   Get a grip.   Not everyone has money to buy used uniforms.   By expecting it of them you would discourage them from joining or ostracise them as "different" (lesser).   Being more military means wearing the uniform you are told to wear, and avoiding the stuff you are told not to wear.   It is not about having the _sexy_ uniform of your choice.


----------



## Oli (19 Aug 2004)

It's good to see that problems never change I remember this back in the late 70's. We'd be howling every other week to wear combats to parade night  :crybaby:. Once the uniforms were changed  to the dark green pants we found something new. Wearing combat boots with dress uniforms with the pants tucked into the boot. (it sure looked cool). 

Oli
Mainz Germany


----------



## THEARMYGUY (19 Aug 2004)

OK.  I can see your point about that.  I was just curious.  Thanks for letting me know.

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


----------



## Burrows (19 Aug 2004)

Its pretty much up to the discretion of your units RCSU reg force advisor.. Our does not give a crap, even likes it.  Our corps does not have an issue with people not having ebough money because they will issue it if the cadet has any problems accuiring them ie. Surplus store has none etc.  But like I said its pretty much up to the RCSU to make the rules.


----------



## primer (22 Aug 2004)

THE ARMY GUY said:
			
		

> OK.   So to get back on track here, I believe that we were discussing combat clothing at the LHQ.   I was with a unit last TRG year and we did receive a memo from our DET.(EOA)   The just of it was that combat clothing would NOT be worn on regular TRG nights for any reason other than "field" TRG.   Combat clothing was authorized for use during field exercises as well as loading and unloading of kit for said exercises.   That was about it.   CIC officers are also included in this memo.   Same rules apply.
> 
> Cheers!!
> 
> The Army Guy



I have read the same message from EOA and its about time I might think


----------



## Mike-2799 (30 Oct 2004)

I totally agree with this, cadets are becoming pussy's. Most of the cadets which are M/CPL and down, don't know anything about the military, and they are a bunch of undissiplined civies. Last year my corp wore combats almost every week. But this year, we are wearing them like once every 2 months. 

Still, my corp still wears combats on normal nights every once and a while, but its becoming less and less. And its all because of the Liberals and little wippy cadets who tell their parents something they didnt like, and then their parents complain, which ends up makeing cadets worse and worse.


----------



## Burrows (30 Oct 2004)

Well Sparks,

Do something about it.  As a sergeant it is your duty to make sure your suboordinates know what they are doing and are disciplined in doing it. Cadets isnt becoming as you so aptly put it "pussier" its just losing all the NCO's to incompetence which will thus create a generation of untrained cadets who will then be NCO's and the cycle will start again..


----------



## Pet_Bailey (31 Oct 2004)

Ya i heard this it was somthing about it last year but then it just disolved but then it comes back again this year i hope it desolves again this year im glad it just aint our corps that is like that


----------

