# Dissention in the ranks?  Don’t go where IEDs are?



## McG (12 Jun 2007)

It would be great if we could do all the CSS runs on helicopters, but there are only so many helicopters with a finite amount of space to move things around.



> Road where trooper died prone to ambushes
> Tom Blackwell, CanWest News Service
> Published: Tuesday, June 12, 2007
> 
> ...


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## MikeM (12 Jun 2007)

Not many routes to take over there, I understand where the person is coming from but it's a danger we have to accept and work with. IED's aren't going away anytime soon.


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## geo (12 Jun 2007)

anyhow.... helicopters can be shot down too!


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## Northern Ranger (12 Jun 2007)

I feel for the guy 100%.  Days earlier he states that "don't use the roads in this spot"  day later a son of Canada is dead that was under his charge.  I suspect that is something that he will deal with for the rest of his life.  Telling him that helo's can get shot down is like telling the parents of the troop that "you can get killed in Canada just by crossing the road"!


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## MJP (12 Jun 2007)

I don't understand where he is coming from at all.  It's not like he doesn't get paid well for the fact he is in a war zone and that he as a SOLDIER has to assume there will be risks to his life as a soldier.  It would be a different story if he recieved poor training or inadequate equipment to deal with the situation but that isn't the case.  I find his blabbing to the media assine and the good MCpl should zip his mouth and soldier on.  Concentrating on leading and caring for the soldiers around him, and his situational awareness (including hey signs of IEDs) would be a more prudent course of action for him instead of whining and bleating to the media.


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## HItorMiss (12 Jun 2007)

+1 MJP

In the end there is a risk to our job and sometimes higher makes a call regardless of our recommendations. The price of command is that sometimes bad things happen when you make a decision. Our job is to Carry out the commanders intent to the best of our ability. Perhaps the good MCpl needs some refresher training on staying in ones lane while talking to media.


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## KevinB (13 Jun 2007)

Ditto to MJP and HitorMiss.

 Maybe this guy needs a lesson in unemployment.


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## Teflon (13 Jun 2007)

I spent a good portion of my tour in the SHAHWALI KOT region of Kandahar and delt with the IED threat quite often (once my own vehicle hit and responded to about 6 other incidents oif other vehicles) We consently advised on the use of helicopters for resupply in that area and used the American route clearence guys when they where available but alas, they weren't always available, during those periods we still patroled and conducted resupply in that reason because it had to be done. Many hours of nervous teeth grinding as you wait for the possibility of the floor of your vehicle to explode and shoot up through your legs and A**. But it was done as required and it took more time as we would sweep certain "higher risk" areas on foot before driving through. I understand where he's comming from but we can't just not go there because then the bad guys do go there.

My thoughts and prayers to the families of all the fallen


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## MG34 (13 Jun 2007)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> Ditto to MJP and HitorMiss.
> 
> Maybe this guy needs a lesson in unemployment.



Damn straight, nothing more has to be said.


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## GAP (13 Jun 2007)

This is an excellent example of why troops should keep their opinions to themselves. That is not to say that they can't have the opinions, and voice them within the ranks where the situation is generally understood by those around them. His comments in that context would have been proper. 

Telling the same thing to a reporter who is not looking at it from the same perspective is asking for trouble. He has just made a whole lot of work for a lot of people to dispel the impressions the reporter created in his report.


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## seamus (13 Jun 2007)

Teflon said:
			
		

> I spent a good portion of my tour in the SHAHWALI KOT region of Kandahar and delt with the IED threat quite often (once my own vehicle hit and responded to about 6 other incidents of other vehicles) We contently advised on the use of helicopters for resupply in that area and used the American route clearence guys when they where available but alas, they weren't always available, during those periods we still patrolled and conducted resupply in that reason because it had to be done. Many hours of nervous teeth grinding as you wait for the possibility of the floor of your vehicle to explode and shoot up through your legs and A**. But it was done as required and it took more time as we would sweep certain "higher risk" areas on foot before driving through. I understand where he's coming from but we can't just not go there because then the bad guys do go there.
> 
> My thoughts and prayers to the families of all the fallen


 Overseas if we did not travel on every road with possible IED's I doubt we would have had a direct route to get to the KAF gate. It's the job over there, and sometimes tragedies happen. You have to suck it up and carry on. And as far as airlift goes, well we all know the answers to that one,(or many answers) as covered by various posts on this site. But if you think this soldier is the first or the last to make comments like that, then you are  terribly mistaken.


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## stealthylizard (13 Jun 2007)

It seems to be pretty clear that military should not talk to press at all.


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## Michael OLeary (13 Jun 2007)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> It seems to be pretty clear that military should not talk to press at all.



No, that is not the correct conclusion at all.  The current policy of "staying in one's lane" is effective when it is adhered to.  A "gag order" is not the solution here.


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## Teflon (13 Jun 2007)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> It seems to be pretty clear that military should not talk to press at all.



Now that wouldn't really assist in getting the whole story across now would it? Would pretty much allow the media to continue printing whatever they dig or dream up unabaited.

People just have to think about what they are saying to members of the media, stay in their lanes and ensure that the context of what they are saying is clearly understood by who they are talking to.


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## Colin Parkinson (13 Jun 2007)

Seems like he was venting and indiscreet about who he vented to. A "good" reporter is adept at making people talk and appear to be sympathetic and offering a chance for people to get stuff off their chest. Just remember that you never say anything to a reporter you don't want to see in tomorrows headline.


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## scoutfinch (13 Jun 2007)

Maybe there should be a self imposed professional prohibition on  reporters seeking comments from people who have witnessed the recent loss of a colleague however I suspect that would require far more sensitivity or humanity than most journalists could muster.


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## stealthylizard (13 Jun 2007)

*Now that wouldn't really assist in getting the whole story across now would it? Would pretty much allow the media to continue printing whatever they dig or dream up unabated.*

They seem to do this already.  

I do agree with no official gag order, but a voluntary one.  I'm just getting a bit p'd off at the media and their inability to properly report the facts.


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## Teflon (13 Jun 2007)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> *Now that wouldn't really assist in getting the whole story across now would it? Would pretty much allow the media to continue printing whatever they dig or dream up unabated.*
> 
> They seem to do this already.
> 
> I do agree with no official gag order, but a voluntary one.  I'm just getting a bit p'd off at the media and their inability to properly report the facts.



Thank you for taking the time to correct and high light the spelling error I made, now if only you took the same amount of time to consider the content of the post. What the media does with the information they get is pretty much up to them, if one fails to give a clear and accurate picture of what they are talking about then it will be reported as such, unclear and or inaccurately.

Also, don't kid yourself, that reporter gets his/her pay for writing stories that will sell pappers or capture viewers not to "report the facts"

You don't have to talk to the press at any time

Please feel free to corect any spelling errors I may have missed


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## stealthylizard (13 Jun 2007)

If one doesn't volunteer them any information, then it will be harder to spin it.  But of course they would then spin the lack of information.  Lose, lose situation.


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## Teflon (13 Jun 2007)

Kind of what I was getting at


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## Kiwi99 (13 Jun 2007)

Media or no media, who really cares.  If there is no story they will make one.  They have their orders much the same as we have ours.  Now, staying in ones lanes, and gag orders and all this other talk is fine.  But remember that this is a open source website, anyone can see it.  We preach about OPSEC on here, yet we continue to bash the media.  Whose to say that they don't read this and formulate opinions from what they read.  As for the MCpl, his opinion is his opinion.  We were not there and cannot in any way critcize his actions or comments.  Nice to do it from back here where its all nice and safe, but give it a rest.  Theres enough armchair experst and retired wannabes out there already, lets not make anymore.


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## Reccesoldier (13 Jun 2007)

Seems like this guy forgot the gist of the lecture on the "Strategic Cpl",  I know he got it, hell I even know who gave it...he's here too.  :

Damage is done, the civvies won't understand, the media will play it up and the next thing you know we'll have Taliban Jack calling for an inquest into the mission based on the incompetence of the CF's leadership.


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## KevinB (14 Jun 2007)

Lets wind our necks in here guys...


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## pbi (14 Jun 2007)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> The true problem ain't the Strategic Corporal - it is the nano-tactical 3 star......



Ahh, yes. The sock-checkers...the sewing kit inspectors....the sentence re-structurers. Their motto: "Take care of the little things and the big things will go right into the ditch  take care of themselves".

Cheers


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## reccecrewman (14 Jun 2007)

On a smilar note WRT the strategic corporal.......... Don't believe it's a mere coincidence that quite often, Cpl Riggins is being interviewed by the media. Media plugs know that Privates and Corporals are more apt to speak exactly whats on their mind as they usually don't have that much time in the Military.  Go interview Sgt. Crusty and chances are, he'll throw up blocks to _every single_ attempt to draw him into saying something off the cuff and re-direct masterfully......... He ain't going to make for juicy headlines. Ahhh...... But Cpl. Riggins over there may well be willing to spew accusations about "Incompetent leadership" and many other indescretions that most certainly will sell newspapers and get ol Taliban Jack and his gang up in arms in the House of Commons.

After Sgt Gillam and Cpl Mitchell were killed last fall, I met a roaming reporter in the parking lot at Timmie's on Base, and the guy would approach an individual coming out of Timmies, see a Crown or 3 hooks on the epaulet and turn around and walk away, but a blank epaulet or 2 hooks, he was all over them..........  I loved being asked "What do YOU think of Canada's mission in Afghanistan after hearing about the death of more of your comrades?"  "Well, my job isn't to decide on the role Canada should play, my job is to do what Canada's elected Government tells my superiors to do, and that information is in turn passed down to me and I do what I'm told"  He poked and prodded for a few minutes, lost interest in me and left me to my solitude, cigarette and coffee......... 

I may be out in left field with my thoughts, but I do think there may be some substance to them.

Regards


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## Thompson_JM (15 Jun 2007)

It was Taken out of context. and for the record. IMHO Given his trade, his experiance and his time overseas, he was well within his lanes on this one...

out of respect for the Trooper, I will not comment further on the issue here. PM if you like.


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## pbi (15 Jun 2007)

Ohh, God...puh-leeeze don't get me started. The memories have only just started to fade.

Cheers


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## SeaKingTacco (15 Jun 2007)

Don't get me started about how "fun" Petawawa was in 1991 when the "Section Commanding" Colonel became the Base Commander...

All living in Officers had to wear jacket and tie when in the mess when not in uniform...in the summer.

We went from about 125 living in officers to 25 in about 2 months.  Good times...


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## Old Sweat (15 Jun 2007)

SKT

That was over the hill, even for the old army. In the summer we could take our jackets off (this was in an era when rockers performed in jackets and ties) and even wear golf shirts before 1800. 

A officer who was quite senior to me at the time once told me that most generals of our era acted like company commanders, because that was the last job they really understood.


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