# Have 4 months to kill.  Are there jobs starting now?



## CyAnide (12 Mar 2003)

Hey all, Im 17 and currently out of high school. I dropped my semester because I slept in a little too much and lets say the school didnt approve of my pressance. I have about 4 months of nothing to do and Im looking at the army to help resolve my free time issue. Also being 17 I must mention I aint in the best shape of my life. Im weak and I smoke, but like any other person I want to improve on myself and make some money while Im at it.

Im not currently looking at the Army as a long term solution to life. I have a plan to go into computer graphics or programming. So I also plan to finish my highschool and goto colledge. Do something good before my oppertunity passes me. I live in Burlington Ontario and when I was in grade 11 we got a private and a corpral come to my old Catholic school recruiting for field artillery. I like most others was interested in it, but time got in the way of things and I never got a chance to join. Now having nothing to do Im rethinking.

Well my biggest queston of all is where could I join? Living in Burlington I know that there is a naval base outside my apartment window overlooking Hamilton Harbour but Im not looking to join the navy, I aint a fish and from the two Canadian boats that I seen, one was send to Hamilton because it was too old and the other one had a chopper crash into it.

Also how long will recruitment take and when will it start? I plan to goto summer school so Im not looking to miss summer. I just want to fit my time in the army with the four months that I have.

Can I possibly fail in the army? Well this is my second question since I'm 6'3 weigh around 150-60 and on top of that I smoke. Basically meaning if I run a bit too long I might get a stroke and turn colors.

Can the Army offer me a schoolarship in any colledge of my choice? Well Im asking this because if I join I need to finish school right after and that goto colledge so if not than I guess I could become an officer...

Well thats about it really. Ill check this later for some answers.   :warstory:


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## Michael OLeary (12 Mar 2003)

Kamil, the short answer is "no", the army is not going to fill your four-month gap with immediate opportunities for employment.

The recruiting process can take anywhere from one month to a year depending on the individual‘s case.

If you want to consider the military for part-time employment (with the Reserves) or full-time employment after you graduate (The Regular Force) I suggest you take some of your free time and visit your local recruiter to explore the options open to you.

Keep in mind that the military emphasizes the importance of education as much as any employer. If you do join, you will find that the soldier spends more time in basic training courses in the classroom as he/she does in the field or on firing ranges. The Army is certainly no escape from lectures, note-taking, studying, tests or early mornings. If these are the things that make school so undesirable for you right now, then perhaps the Army is not what you‘re looking for  at this time.

Try these for a starting point for your inquiries:

CANADIAN FORCES RECRUITING CENTRE HAMILTON
100 MAIN ST E
HAMILTON ON  L8N 3W4

31 Canadian Brigade Group
 http://www.army.dnd.ca/LFCA_HQ/LFCA/English/Organization/31CBG_e.shtm#ASH%20OF%20C%20HAMILTON  

Mike


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## humint (12 Mar 2003)

Yes, I think that you are perfect officer material. Join up now and tomorrow you‘ll be in!   

Seriously though, the CF doesn‘t seem to be the right place for you. It‘s not a passtime or a hobby, but rather a career and a place to learn new skills and develop; and it is for this reason that half-measures will not do. You need to be fit, mentally capable, and personally dedicated. (cr@p, I sound like my dad!!)

If you are interested in finding out more about the CF (and I‘m thinking that you are more interested in the Res Force than Reg Force), you should go see the Lorne Scots -- I believe that they have a company in Oakville. You could also go to Hamilton and look up the Argylls, the RHLIs, and the 11th Field (Arty). There are also Service and Medical units in Hamilton and area. 

The recruitment process will take months -- I‘m talking (at best!!!) 4 to 8 months. You need to do the tests (medical, fitness, apptitude) and interviews at the Reg. Scheduling and doing these does not happen over night; there is a back-log and it may take two months to get through.

And, in all liklihood, you‘ve missed this year‘s window to get in for summer training (which you indicate that you can‘t go on because of summer school). That doesn‘t mean all Reg‘s are closed. You just might have wheel and deal to get in -- that is, if you really want it. 

I think you really need to take a hard long look at what you really want to do. If this is just some sort of whilly-nilly decision, you may want to re-think it before you waste your (and other peoples‘) time.

If you are really interested in getting in, you should inquire about your highschool‘s CF co-op programme. That way you can get credits and experience the CF all at the same time. I think that this would be your best option.


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## kurokaze (12 Mar 2003)

I agree with the above posters.  If you‘re really 
serious about this the first thing you need to
do is get accustomed to waking up at or before
0500 hours (5 a.m.)

Your fitness level will definately need to be there.
You don‘t sound overweight, in fact underweight.

I‘m 5‘10" and 200 lbs (for those of you who know
me personally, guess you never thought I 
acutally weighed that much eh?    ).  Get used to
running.  Start slow, build up endurance.  Your
goal (regardless of what the fitness requirements
are for the CF) is to do  *10km in under 48 mins* .
(just to note: I haven‘t reached that goal yet 
either)

If smoking is preventing you from doing that,
then you have to decide.. smoking or the forces.
Smoking itself will not prevent you from joining.

We all can give you a rosy picture of the Army,
but that won‘t be doing you any favours.  The
courses you will go through are going to be hard,
both mentally and physically.  Be prepared to be
pushed harder than anything you have ever
experienced in high school.  It‘s meant to be that
way.  Self-discipline, fitness and teamwork is 
paramount to succeeding in the Army.  Lack in
any one of those areas and you might as well
go home.  The only consolation we can give you is 
that if you pass your courses in the Army, you‘ll 
come out a better man than you ever thought
possible.


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## Recce41 (12 Mar 2003)

Kamil
You are the reason, our military is going down. Your questions just show, why you slept through HS. Your are a F^&*ing dumb dumb. What drugs are you doing? Fit in 4 months of my time F^&*>


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## 311 (12 Mar 2003)

> If you are really interested in getting in, you should inquire about your highschool‘s CF co-op programme. That way you can get credits and experience the CF all at the same time. I think that this would be your best option.


I‘ve heard about this , but no one has ever told me about this. How does it work ? I‘d sure like to gain an extra credit....


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## CyAnide (12 Mar 2003)

Thanks for all your oppinions guys. Your all right and I cant argue. I am still considering the army though, and I do want to finish my highschool. I know now that I cant do this so fast, so I guess I‘ll get in better shape first and find another part time job.

Thanks all and later.


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## humint (12 Mar 2003)

No doubt about it, Recce41 has won the quote of the day contest:    



> Your are a F^&*ing dumb dumb. What drugs are you doing? Fit in 4 months of my time F^&*>


Always the gentle touch. If that doesn‘t scare away the kid, I don‘t know what will!


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## Illucigen (13 Mar 2003)

Kamil,

No offence, but... 

Grow up.

Do that, and we‘d welcome you at RMC (Royal Military College) where you can get your education (university, not college) paid for, in exchange for service in the forces.

Im also certain the NCM ranks would welcome you with open arms should you decide to actually think before opening your mouth.

While Recce41 was perhaps a bit bold in his statement.... You , and people with the same mentality as you, are an increasing part of the problem with both the internal morale in the forces, the decline in human resources, and our perception in the public (which directly influences morale).

The forces arent a "time filler". I doubt you will find any serious military personnel who take kindly to you saying you look at the forces as a "time filler". Granted, I go to school with several such idiots... but I can guarantee you that their colleagues do not necssarily support them.

First, finish high school. If you cant do that, and given the fact that you cant get your butt out of bed, you dont belong defending our country.


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## logistik (14 Mar 2003)

recce41 is seriously my hero.
Well fecking said.


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## Recce41 (14 Mar 2003)

Sorry for being blunt. But we are getting more and more people in that don‘t even stay their contract. Because they show up and wait JTF or Ranger and you tell them, sorry troop. But you to short in time or your in the wrong army. 
It‘s hurting us as a whole. You start training and then bam their gone. Training again, again etc. Logistik Thanks HAHA.


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## Cdn Soldier (15 Mar 2003)

Of course, the reason more and more people are failing to complete even their basic engagement could be attributed to some of the attitudes being expressed by personnel who hold themselves out to be part of the leadership of the Army.  Has the whole concept of nurturing and developing soldiers fallen by the wayside and been replaced by "You‘re weak, dumb and acting like a kid. I don‘t have time for that so don‘t even bother talking to me and don‘t even consider joining "my" Army."  Thankfully, from what at least one has previously posted, it will no longer be "your" Army in the near future.

As for the comment about the Forces not being a time filler.  I know a lot of people who joined up to give themselves some time to sort out what they were going to do with their lives only to be at it years and years later because they found out it was actually what they wanted to do with their life.  On the other hand, I‘ve also known guys who‘ve joined up with the intention of going the long haul who realize quite quickly that it‘s time to get out.  You never know where the path will lead you.

Thanks to those who actually took the time to give Kamil some reasoned, if perhaps hard to hear, advice.


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## gk404 (15 Mar 2003)

You don‘t seriously believe that some guy that can‘t even get up in the morning has what it takes to become a soldier?  When I first read his post I thought it was a lame attempt at comedy! Perhaps in future the automatic response should be "just go down to your local recruiter....they‘ll sort you out."


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## Zoomie (15 Mar 2003)

It‘s my belief that we all wear multiple hats (personalities??).  When I was attending university, I purposedly scheduled classes that began no earlier than 11am.  The reasoning behind this was that I was (and still am) a sleep hog.  But loe and behold, I have done the military thing for going on 10 years now.  I‘ve done my 48 hours with negligible sleep, I‘ve seen 4am - 5am for morning PT! It‘s all a matter of attitude and personal drive.  When you‘re on civi-time, you can be as lazy and slobbish as you like, so long as you can "switch" out of that mode and put on your military cap when the time calls for it.


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## Recce41 (15 Mar 2003)

Cdn Soldier
 If a man wants to be nurtured, he can go see his mom. I‘m on my 23 yr of sevice, and started when a go kick in the a55 was a good thing. Soldiers now want the hung and kiss, BS. I also grew up in a military family, and know when a kick is needed. When I started that kick, made men. And more soldiers stayed in than now.I have yng soldiers come up and try to call me by my first name, are see a NCO or officer and say "hows it goin man". That is uter BS. I had a soldier on tour worry more about their **** camera, than their C8 during a riot in Bosnia. During this riot my veh was shot up, breaking the sights, spot light, and putting more holes in the addon armour.
 When a soldier does not know what matters, he‘s gone. I lost three friends on tours. I prefer to not loose anymore. 
 So if a man or boy cannot take a lil kick or tongue lassing. He‘s should grow up. 
 And if your talking about me in your first paragraph, yes I maybe getting out. For I have kids at home to hung and kiss, not at work.


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## Recce41 (15 Mar 2003)

Also I got that punch in the chops from the Troop Sgt or WO, it didn‘t hurt me. I also got it worst, for most know my father. 
 I remember getting pulled off the top of a veh, and poked by the RSM for not seeing the CO as he when by.


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## Bert (15 Mar 2003)

Theres nothing like a good debate.  Kamil, though your questions may have been innocent, it brings into question for several people how to determine or judge the quality of a potential soldier.  Recce41 made valid points and CdnSoldier gave a another perspective.

I‘d say the quality of a potential soldier, in reference to the CAF, is the education/skills the recruit brings to the Force, the guts the individual has (potential emotional, mental, and phyisical strength), the actual strengths and training acquired during BMT and SQ.  Only after SQ or the equivalent per MOC, does the soldier actually become useful.  

If the perfert soldier is desired, then maybe like in the Kurt Russel movie "Soldier‘, they‘d artifically create the perfect physical specimen for the job.  Until then, good old home-grown Canadian is what we‘ve got.

You can never judge a book by the cover.  The potential of the individual is what needs to be tapped and resourced.  The training and potential is what you‘ve got when you‘re on the battlefield and the bullets flying.  I know thats simplified.  But its true, when a situation is present, its the individuals that overcome,solve or deal with it that get the respect.  To the new recruit or applicant, how do you judge their quality?

The difference between creampuff civie life and military life is great and to a majority of the recruits, they have no real idea.  BMT can serve as that acid test .  The training the soldier gets afterward and his evolution (measurable quality) is what I think Recce41 is getting at.

I agree prior military lifestyle and conditioning is desirable before applying to the CAF but civie life and military life are different.  The individual‘s guts, training, attitude, and evolution is what‘s important to make him/her useful.  Some people lack, others prevail.

Kamil, me , or anyone else who may decide to apply to the Forces, it seems you better know and understand what you want and how far you‘re willing to go to do it.


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## Cdn Soldier (16 Mar 2003)

Recce41:  Seems to me, you, as a Snr NCO and particularly as DS at a school, better figure out what the definition of nurture is prior to trying to bust my chops.  Here‘s two definitions for you to ponder:

Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary:  

1) that which nourishes; food; sustenance. 2)  training; breeding; education.  

-tured -turing 1)  feed or support; nourish.  2)  bring up or train; educate.

Mirriam-Webster Online:

1 : Training, Upbringing
2 : something that nourishes : FOOD
3 : the sum of the influences modifying the expression of the genetic potentialities of an organism 

Quite obviously I wasn‘t talking about food, so it must have been that training and educating bit.  What you‘re talking about, the "huggy-touchy-feely", would be called coddling in the manner in which you‘ve used it.  

I do, however agree with one sentiment of yours and that would be if an individual is not able to accept constructive criticism on how to better and improve themself, than by all means they should get out.  On the other hand, I would also say that someone who was unable to give criticism in a constructive manner was more damaging to the CF than someone who refused to accept that criticism and they should be getting out.


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## Bert (16 Mar 2003)

Recce41 wrote in a prior post of this thread:

"Kamil
You are the reason, our military is going down. Your questions just show, why you slept through HS. Your are a F^&*ing dumb dumb. What drugs are you doing? Fit in 4 months of my time F^&*>"

Looking at it from another point of view, is this more or less true?

Listening to a CF Recruiter, he said recruits today are less physically tough, in poorer physcial shape, act more independantly, more impatient, and difficult for them to work as a team.  He attributed it to computer/video games and people and families being more self involved and less physically active than in previous times.

As the NCM recruit goes through BMT, and off to SQ, then on to MOC specific and leadership courses, the military should change these major malfunctions (hehe) and evolve the soldier into something better.  I don‘t know personally, but is this the general case or a symptom of a systemic
problem?


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## Recce41 (16 Mar 2003)

Cdnsoldier
 I know what nurture means. I feel you are one of the NEW type of soldiers. That hate to be S^&* upon. You feel that I hurt your feelings.That you can call NCO/Offices by their first names. You have to have less than 5-8 yrs in. This is not directed at you but just a over view.
 Soldiers in this  group,are very self centred. I had a group of soldiers back in 96 the just walked away from a NCO and thought it was funny. As I posted a soldier, worried more for a **** camera, than its weapon,soldiers that say Hey man to a NCO/officer, soldiers when you tell them to do something look at you like you had two heads. Are what we are getting in.
 In Gagetown at the Armour School, soldiers on SQ/DP1 didn‘t have to march, they drove their cars. There were 8-12 soldiers out of 24 on some kind of chit.You cannot CB them, their out at the Bar every night. And one just got caught for drugs. 
 When I went though, you ran everywhere, no cars even showed up in Petawawa, if you were on TQ3. I was CBed till week 6 out of 13. We could go to the Canex on Weekends, to shop and a coffee if the duty NCO desided to take the course (march the course). And to the Coriano Club from 6-8 but no beer just pop and TV and we had to sit in a corner, and if you were on a chit, you better be dieing. You had your heels together for a one hook Trooper and up.As for drugs, you were OOO so done. 
A combat arms soldier is the hardest life you can have. My father always said the Army makes a man, but the combat arms makes you old man. I was down in Ft Knox KY, where the Armour School is, the US Army is going back to the Kick in the Pants. Recuit training, from OOO heres my lil yellow card. The British have never changed, and have some of the toughest soldiers. Our disipline in that repect has gone down. 
 I treat my daughters the same way, hard, for they have to growup and be strong. I don‘t beat them, don‘t get me wrong. But with hard love to go through life so they are not taken advantage of. We go camping, do sports together,go for walks and have taught them to respect people. My oldest is going though to be a supply tech, and sees the differance between a recuits. That families that sat a watched TV and video games   To soldiers that were mentally and physically strong from their families, that went camping, did sports and made their kids be understanding of what life is.


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## Veteran`s son (16 Mar 2003)

Recce41

I know that if I joined the Canadian Armed Forces, I would work hard to be a good soldier and be proud to wear the uniform as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces!

Also, I know that I would not have a problem getting up at 5am; it is just all the running that would be difficult.


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## Infanteer (16 Mar 2003)

Good post sergeant, the SNCO I have admired the most had the same things to say to me.  I think this is an endemic that is personified by things such as SHARP, Sex Changes, and the lot.  Everytime I read the Maple Leaf, I wanna puke after reading half the crap the write in there.

Now, to get this somewhere.  Since you have to TI, what do you feel the causes behind these problems you have brought up.  Poor selection of Recruits, Poor basic training, or just too much "bureucratization".  I‘d be interested to hear what you have to say on that.


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## Recce41 (16 Mar 2003)

I think it‘s all of the above. For you cannot modivate someone with out them crying. If you swear you have to apoligise. MPs have no clue about the military, etc I can go on and  on.


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## Cdn Soldier (17 Mar 2003)

Recce41:  Nice reply, I‘m just wondering why you didn‘t articulate something like this in the first place.  As for my TI/Rank, well, that‘s not really something I feel the need to boast about as I prefer to let my posts stand, or fall, on their own merit.  I will say though, that I went through basic etc back in the days when it was a daily occurance to have at least one persons kit end up out the window or thrown down the hall with the DS literally foaming at the mouth, yelling and screaming about what a piece of s**t they were, got marched into cells on Friday because my haircut wasn‘t "to standard" etc etc.  Did these instances make me a better soldier?  I don‘t think so, in fact the one DS who was the most effective stressor on any of my courses was the quiet, methodical one.  You never knew what he was up to and would magically appear at the most inopportune time.  Unfortunately the "yelling and screaming" example made too many of my peers decide that this style was the only appropriate one in all circumstances and makes me wonder if at least some of what we‘ve gone through isn‘t a back-lash against this ill-informed leadership mentality.

Like it or not, todays recruits are totally different beasts than when we went through.  As you‘ve pointed out there is a host of problems even prior to their arriving at the CFRC which we end up dealing with and the changes to "low stress/no stress" in the initial stages of training have only exasperated the situation.  As you know we‘re ending up with folks coming out the pipe at our end who can‘t even deal with the day to day stresses life presents them (I had one guy get stress leave because his girlfriend left him...), let alone the incidents you‘ve refered to.  The decision we need to make on our end is to determine how we want to deal with what we get.  We can maintain the status quo and hope that the recruiting system starts producing what we used to get, or we can make some minor, yet crucial mods to the way we do business to make staying in more attractive to todays youth.  For instance, what is the requirement for 5 roll-calls a day as several Bn/Regts I know do?  If the Sect Comd can‘t be relied upon to make sure all his/her troopies do the required work per day, the Sect Comd should be getting fired.  Instead we treat everyone like kids because someone, sometime slipped off early.  Of course, getting back to enforcing basic standards and discipline wouldn‘t hurt much either.  Gen MacKenzie hit the nail on the head, Marin didn‘t.

Anyways, enough rambling and of course, everything said here is IMHO.


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## Illucigen (17 Mar 2003)

Alright, well IMHO,

Well said everyone.

For me, I beleive the most important thing any recruiter should be looking for in any new fresh-faced possible recruit is the evidence of drive and determination, and the reasons behind the recruitment application..

First things first, recruiting officers should not be idiots. Most of them arent. Mine was quite intelligent. She asked intelligent, open-ended questions, and was obviously probing for things, and did not let open answers fly.

Why? In an age where finances are excessively tight, training space (especially at the bottom end of the spectrum) is excessively tight, and where morale amongst the most senior of soldiers is that people don‘t give a **** anymore... I think we have to ensure we are getting people with the dedication, and the drive to succeed in the military.

Frankly, I am noticing as I progress (and I will admit I am very very junior), but even with respect to what I have learned from very SrNCO‘s, that we do not have the ability to "modify" personalities in the forces any more. While this was once true in many occupations before, where employees were told to shape up or ship out, this no longer happens in teh civie world nor in the military, due to human rights protection and lawsuits.

All this means that employers (and DND is an employer, lets remember) must look to get the best candidate in, not constatnly waste resources doing "acid tests". Does this mean we may eliminate some potentially amazing individuals from the ranks? Absolutely! But we must play the odds.

Someone who clearly has no ambition to finish school, who has no ambiition period, but rather to learn to fire a gun and get a job for a period of time is not going to be dedicated to improving themself. Or perhaps they are. It would really depend on other indicators. 

Im tired of hearing of people joining up because mommy and daddy wanted them too, or it was the only job that would accept a grade 10 education.

The forces can no longer boot people into shape, it can only waste resources on you until you quit, or boot you out when the red tape breaks.

I see the point of differences between the worlds. But you should truly have researched your decision to join. Noone expects it to be easy, and I doubt many have a firm grasp of what it really is to be military. But in this age of employment competitveness, internet, ****  this forum.. the answers are out there...

As for what one can accomplish under pressure.. well some may find the forces are a perfect fit. But my question to you is.. should that space in BMT go to someone who wants to "fill time" or someone who is already in love with the military before they join, and has proven themself in the past.?


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## greeves (18 Mar 2003)

I think it‘s fairly hard to predict how people are going to react when taken from a civvie environment and put into the rigid structure of a military one.  I‘ve seen people who were dog-****s on civvie street thrive in basic training.  I‘ve seen the opposite happen as well.  However, the purpose of the infantry is to "Close with and destroy the enemy".  I‘m sure the other combat arms trades have similar "mottos"...  Ultimately, that is what we are training people to do so I think that a little "hardness" at the basic training level is vital to produce soldiers that are effective in combat - if we lose a few along the way, so be it.


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## CyAnide (19 Mar 2003)

I guess I gave a sh|t oppinion of myself back there with no real explinations on my behalf. Im not trying to change the view of me in your eyes because in reality you people dont know me other than the few words I have to say about myself. Well I am a lazy civilian, I wont deny that and I love to sleep but I have reasons for fuc]{ing up school. I dont remember the month but neer the start of my school year I twisted my ankle witch automatically took 10 days out of my school year and a little later in the winter I soaked my shoes walking to school and cought the flu a few days after. Also had a cold a bit later and the rest of the days I selpt in. Yes thats bad I know, well I had a doctors note for the foot and the vice principal saw it but the other days I was blue were unacounted for because my moms a nurse so I got some home medicine. Now that was last semester and it accounted for a good 20 days off school. This semester I actually got lazy with 3 absences of the bat that brought the vice principals eyes on me. With having that and what I had before she decided to get rid of me. Now normally she couldn‘t do so but because I switched from a Catholic school to public school and gave her the reason that I switched was because I didnt like my ol school she decided to put me on a contract and Im not making one lie here that that contract was total BS.

Also a reason for me asking if I can do the training in 4 months is because when 2 recruiters came to our school 2 years ago they told me and others that training could be accomplished over the summer or 8 weeks. I belive it was the 2nd Artillery that a person above mentioned. They were there for 1 day and gave me a quick speech during my lunch break so I didnt hear much and its the reason I turned to this message board. After all I am underweight and I wanna be infromed before I decide to make a decision. And why Im underweight.. Well I dont know I eat a lot and back in 99 I was one of the fattest kids in class but than the height took over and I wasnt able to catch up with the weight fast enough.

As for my reasons for joining the Army.. Well theres a lot more than free education, money and something to take my time off my hands. I want to improve my physical condition, although now that I hear that I have to run 10km in 50 minutes I feel that I will have to improve upon that aspect myself, I feel that it gives people one reason to stay in the army. If one as scrony as me decides to set himself a goal of that sort it would definately incourage me to stay. Propobly people of my quality wouldnt join but I have other reasons Id prefer not to mention. 

As for myself now and after reading your posts especially the Sgt‘s I belive that the Army should be taken more seriously. I myself am a major gamer, I even own my own online gaming clan. It has 80 members currently and I know why devotion is needed, my clan is 1 and a half month old and in this time we recruited around 250 members and for every 4 that we recruit 3 are disabled because of eighter inapropriate recruitment or lazyness. More less most of those who we disable also ask lots of annoying questions like me here and well.. Its not the same at all but in a tiny perspective it somewhat applys to the same issue.

If your curious enough to look at it theres a link  here.


Having said that about myself I have a few more comments such as is it true that the Army doesnt use force in recruitment no more..? Im one of those people who see the army recruitment close too that of the movie "Full Metal Jacket" where the DS tares his troops down and rebuilds them.

Other than that I have an oppinion on the troops that people recruit and their manner. If the physical test of 10km is true, than the people who decide to join the army who were involved in school sports would be the problem that Sgt is talking about. In my oppinion they can pass the 10km test easyily because their fit, so they never actually think twice about preperation and join straight in with a set mind. Then their manner would lack in the army because they would see the DS as a coach rather than someone who is there to straighten them out. Hence the friendly "Hey man" remarks and the dissapointement they see when theyre cussed at. Umm I had more to say but I got distracted and now I got to go.

So I guess Im gonna have to let you people continue flaming me..  :warstory:


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## Bert (19 Mar 2003)

Hey Kamil

I can‘t speak for the everyone, but don‘t take this thread too seriously.  As you can see, the conversation evolved post to post and discusses systemic issues and points of view of people in and out of the military, not necessarily directed at you personally.  For sure we don‘t know you, who you really are, or what you can do.  You can‘t judge a book by its cover.  And yes, don‘t diss yourself in a this kinda forum.   Hehe.

I guess the people in the military see recruits evolve over time and have opinions.  For us, the guys that may be potential recruits, its good information and something to consider.  It has slightly changed my attitude and perception about BMQ, what will be expected of me, and enforces a more can-do attitude if I ever get there.

We aren‘t invitro produced children and trained at birth to be all things military.  We have strengths and weakness.  If we go to BMQ, we‘ll try to be the best we can be, learn, and evolve into CF members to the best of our ability.


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## Illucigen (19 Mar 2003)

*sigh*.

No full metal jacket is definitely not representative of BMQ.

And Bert, please do not imply that anyone here said people should be "engineered before birth" to be in the military.

What I said (and Ill say it again) was that you should be clear on the reasons you want in, and your dedication to making it in the CF should be unfaltering, before you join. Why? It saves time, money, resources, for all parties concerned.

For those new recruits, you shouldnt feel discouraged. If you do, its probably because you actually care, and thats a good thing. But If I hear about one more idiot who just needed to pass some time and figured it would be a fairly easy ride Im going to go off the deep end. These type of people demoralize those who are dedicated to the forces, and being the best they can be in the forces. 

Make sure you care before you sign up.


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## Bert (19 Mar 2003)

"And Bert, please do not imply that anyone here said people should be "engineered before birth" to be in the military." - Illucigen

Sorry, I felt I needed to respond to this.

I never implied that anyone in this thread said "engineered before birth".  The thread evolved from post to post.  I was more or less implying/describing that this may be needed for the "perfect" recruit.  Obviously, there is a ridiculousness to it.  We all have strengths and weaknesses.  It wasn‘t meant to go beyond that.


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## humint (19 Mar 2003)

No offence, but I find that hardcore ‘gamers‘ have lost touch with reality. Guys who spend countless hours playing vids are simply engaging in a retreat from the real; it‘s a world in which there are no responsibilities and rules to adhere. 

Don‘t get me wrong. I like playing vids too, but there is a difference between kickin‘ back and relaxing and spending day-and-night doing the $hit.

If you want a slice of reality cake, by all means, join the CF. I‘m not saying that you can or will not be able to succeed in the CF, you just need to be aware of the commitment and dedication it takes.  

All you really need to do is ask yourself if your gaming hobby has had a significant impact on your life. Do you miss school to play games? Would you rather cut classes to be on-line? Do you spend countless hours playing games rather than getting outdoors or doing something physical? Are you physically unhealthy because of this?

If you answer yes to these, I not only think that you‘ll have a tough time in the CF, but you‘ll have a tough time in civvie life. 

Case in point: There was this guy who lived in the basement of my house at university and all he did was play online games. Day and night, without stop. The only groceries he would get was 10 cases of Coke and microwave pizza. He and his buddies put tinfoil up on the windows to stop the sun from shining in and they would play online D&D marathons for days. He also never showed up for classes and it took him more than six years to get a freakin undergrad degree. He became a vid-game shut-in with pastie white skin who couldn‘t socialize.  

Just figure out what you want to do and take positive steps to achieve it!


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## das (21 Mar 2003)

well now I play vid games too like Day of Defeat and metal of honour but i don‘t let it run my life infact I‘v been thinking of enlisting from the great age of 10 and sure i might just be 215 pounds and I know right now i can‘t do 10k in 48 mins it but thats what the army is for to train you to run 10-100k in mins and I know I that stubborn to make it in the army I just don‘t get why you must be soo rude to people who post very valid questions????

ohh and does any one know what skills you need to join the armoured units???? I want to drive a leopard tank


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## humint (21 Mar 2003)

I‘m not trying to be rude, just realistic. 

Moreover, I don‘t think the other guys are trying to be rude, either; it‘s just that they realize that there is a level of dedication that the CF needs/expects and that potential recruits need to understand this from the get go! 

Yes, the CF will get you fit. But they also expect a basic level of fitness before you go in. If you can‘t do the basic 20 sit-ups, push-ups, and 3 km run, you won‘t even make it through the fitness test. And, this is just the basic-basic stuff. You‘ll need to be able to do much more when going to basic training. The more fit you are, the better you‘ll do.

If you are interested in joining the CF, I strongly urge you to do two things: 

(1) go to the recruiting centre and get all the info, and 

(2) go to your local armoury on parade night, talk to them, hear what they have to say, sit in on a class, and watch what they are doing. 

Spend some time with people who are in the CF -- talk to them (and not just the recruiter) to get an idea of what is expected. And then go and talk to an NCO, possibly the RSgtMaj, and see what he/she has to say.   

Arm yourself with as much info as possible and then make a decision. 

I hope that wasn‘t too rude. Next time I‘m coming out flaming:   :flame:


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## das (21 Mar 2003)

thanks man I might just do that I want to go all the way in the army not for the glory of war but for the honour of serving my Country in time of need. I understand sort of where every one is coming from the world as a whole has gone down hill in the past few years after ww2 the vet. war the cold war and all the other **** the media plays the military as a bully when its not i don‘t know about every CF member but I know the CF is not a bunch of glory war hungry bullies I know enlisting will be hard and dirty but than again what job isn‘t ya know but than defending a country as big as Canada must be hard


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## kurokaze (24 Mar 2003)

Ok, personally I don‘t really give a rat‘s ***  why
a person decided to the join the army.  As far
as I‘m concerned if you follow the rules, look out
for your troops and serve canada before self then
you‘re fine.

But I want to comment on the whole 10km in
48 minutes thing.

The basic requirement of the CF is 2.4km in
under 12mins.  That‘s what you need to get into
basic training.  I‘m saying 10km in 48mins because
it will make basic training (and your subsequent
courses) that much easier for you.  

Please don‘t misunderstand and think that if you
can‘t do 10km in 48 then you‘ll fail basic.  No no no.

All I‘m saying is to shoot for that goal.  Heck, my
best run so far is 8km in maybe 40-45mins.  It‘ll
make life a whole lot easier for you later on.

Same thing applies with push-ups and sit-ups.
The basic requirement to get in is what is on
the CF recruiting page.  What you will be required
to do once on course.. is another matter altogether


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## das (25 Mar 2003)

ohh ok thanks you had me worried for a miniute there well if its 2.4 i might beable to do that but yes i‘m planing on higher up i was going to try for ateast 8k so i think i‘ll still plan on that but thanks guys your a lot of help


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