# colour party



## chief_of_da_fence (5 May 2010)

In the Navy is the colour officer armed?


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## Pusser (14 May 2010)

Yes.  It's the only time a Naval officer is permitted to hook up his/her sword.


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## RhumRunner (18 May 2010)

Hmmm, I wonder why the Naval Officer always carries his sword.

I'll dig some dirt up on that. Unless someone here knows why?


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## quadrapiper (18 May 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Yes.  It's the only time a Naval officer is permitted to hook up his/her sword.


Also, directors of music, if they choose to wear one.


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## Nuggs (18 May 2010)

RumRunner said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I wonder why the Naval Officer always carries his sword.
> 
> I'll dig some dirt up on that. Unless someone here knows why?



Not sure if its correct but:

http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/pdf/nl0607.pdf



> Naval officers, in accordance with dress regulations,
> are required to carry or trail their swords rather than
> being hitched at the waist. The scabbard is suspended
> from two long hanger straps requiring the wearer to carry
> ...


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## Pusser (18 May 2010)

The above  piece is similar to other accounts of the reason that I have heard as well.  The only difference is that the author implies that  the "disgrace" theory doesn't make sense because officers were not involved in the mutinies at Nore and Spithead.  However, the theory that was related to me years ago was that naval officers were being admonished for not being ready to put down the mutiny.  In other words, they now carry them, not as punishement for participating in the mutinies, but rather so as to always be ready to draw them if required to put down a mutiny.  I'm not sure how well that would work in the modern context.  Graeme Arbuckle also disputes the "disgrace" theory in his book, "Customs and Traditions of the Canadian Navy."  He also asserts that it is more a mark of bravado, but he does not explain that in as a great a detail as the New Zealand author.


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## 30 for 30 (18 May 2010)

Commonwealth naval officers appear to "hook" their swords most of the time- see photos of our recent massive Victoria parade, and see photos of the recent presentation of the colour. Everyone is hooked. Navy units I have served with in Canada always hook the sword onto the sword belt. In my experience there is a lot of confusion in the CF with respect to the wearing of naval swords and the use of sword drill. I see naval sword belts on the outside of tunics at some units, and a bizarre mix of CF sword drill and old naval sword drill is common. There is a lot of confusion and someone up high needs to get one standard going. I believe that hooking or unhooking is left to the local unit under current regs.

Here is a recent photo of NZ naval officers- they are not carrying the scabbard on parade. Similar photos of the RN show the same.


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## Neill McKay (18 May 2010)

Senor Mono said:
			
		

> Commonwealth naval officers appear to "hook" their swords most of the time- see photos of our recent massive Victoria parade, and see photos of the recent presentation of the colour. Everyone is hooked.



It's correct to fasten the scabbard to the sword belt at all times by the two thin straps that hang from the belt, but as long as the sword is still in the scabbard it is carried in the left hand.  When the sword is drawn, the empty scabbard is "hooked up" to the sword belt.  (There's an open hook on the belt, and the scabbard is hung from it by the upper ring.)

On those rare occasions when an officer is carrying a flag or colour (or, some say, conducting a band), the sword is drawn, the scabbard is hooked up, and the sword is returned to the scabbard through the left pocket of the tunic.  (You're meant to make a hole in your left tunic pocket lining to accomplish this.)



> Navy units I have served with in Canada always hook the sword onto the sword belt. In my experience there is a lot of confusion in the CF with respect to the wearing of naval swords and the use of sword drill. I see naval sword belts on the outside of tunics at some units



Saw a 3-ringer do this once.  That's how I know I have lots of self-control!


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## Pusser (18 May 2010)

I know what you mean.  I cringe everytime I see some yob wearing his/her sword belt outside their tunic.  Does no one actually read the book anymore?  This stuff is not a secret.


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## Monsoon (18 May 2010)

Urban legend. Whenever something apparently inexplicable about dress or ceremonial is observed, the "mark of disgrace" theory crops up (note that the same is used to explain why MPs wear red berets and it is, while widespread, also complete BS).

Consider the practicality of wearing a sword on ship while climbing/descending ladders in confined spaces, and you'll understand why naval officers carry their swords instead of hitching them.


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## quadrapiper (19 May 2010)

Have also heard similar regarding (if memory serves...) RCA lanyards.

As far as the sword - when hooked up, they are very "lively" when marching, and move around the left leg to a surprising degree: in a practical setting, you'd need to have a hand on the thing anyway.

Rather surprised, really, that a cross-belt-and-frog arrangement didn't become standard, unless that was (in the frock-coated, wooden-wall era) one of those things that Gentlemen Didn't Wear unless actually engaged in battle.


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## Privateer (3 Jun 2011)

Reviving necro thread on this point:



> I see naval sword belts on the outside of tunics at some units



Sorry, I'm not up to speed on how to import images.  Go to this CBC link - it's the fourth image in the gallery:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/06/03/pol-throne-speech.html


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## Neill McKay (3 Jun 2011)

Privateer said:
			
		

> Reviving necro thread on this point:
> 
> Sorry, I'm not up to speed on how to import images.  Go to this CBC link - it's the fourth image in the gallery:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/06/03/pol-throne-speech.html



It seems somehow worse to see an ADC do this.  They should be high on the list of officers who know how to wear swords correctly.


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## Snakedoc (4 Jun 2011)

Tsk tsk, the governor general's ADC is quite high profile, I've seen this ADC on several occasions in the media but this is the first time with a sword.  He should definitely know better!


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## FSTO (4 Jun 2011)

I saw that yesterday as well. I think he has been contacted and corrected. We shall see if he hoisted in the info the next time he is on display. But since he is a rubber freak we can't be too sure (I kid I kid)  ;D


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## Pusser (4 Jun 2011)

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


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## Old Naval Guard (16 Jun 2011)

While the NZ Naval Party is intresting, Lets look at it from a Canadian perspective. Officers are armed with swords as well as Petty Officers Ratings with service rifles. The first pic is from 1959 retiring the Kings colours, accepting the Queens Colours. The second shows General Allard inspecting a RCN Honour Guard circa 1966. Note Officer is armed with  Sword. In 1979 The old Queens Colour was retired and replaces with the Martime Command Colours, Ratings are shown carring rifles Hope this helps


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## Old Naval Guard (16 Jun 2011)

And the Other pics


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