# PAK Sending LO's to ISAF????



## The Bread Guy (31 Aug 2006)

I can't find ANY other confirmation of this, but thought I'd share it on an "it's out there" basis....

*Pakistan joins ISAF in Afghanistan*
Hamid Mir, Canadafreepress.com, 31 Aug 06
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/mir083106.htm

(....)

"For the first time after 9/11, the Pakistan Army will join International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan. The Pakistan Army will provide its officers to be deployed in ISAF Headquarters in Kabul. They will act as liason officers and will also coordinate their actions with the Afghan National Army. This significant development was revealed to me by a senior ISAF Commander in Kabul, Brigadier General N.A.W. Pope who is from the UK. He said that the number and time for the deployment of Pakistan Army officers in the ISAF Headquarters is not yet confirmed" . . . .

(....)

I've found there was a BGen MAW Pope in the UK Military (promoted Dec 05 according to this:
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/download.asp?docId=945154 ), can't find any other (public) reference for him serving in AFG.  Reporter's name matches the name of the "last guy to int'view Osama before 9-11".

??????


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## McG (31 Aug 2006)

It makes sense.  They were conected to OEF and now [with tacking over RC(S)] ISAF is operating on the Pakistan's boarder.


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## GAP (31 Aug 2006)

Does this not send shudders through those involved in OPSEC. Some of that information is pretty sensitive and the Pak Army has been known to have Taliban sympathies.


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## Franko (31 Aug 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Does this not send shudders through those involved in OPSEC. Some of that information is pretty sensitive and the Pak Army has been known to have Taliban sympathies.



No doubt precautions will be taken when it involves that stuff.

Regards


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## KevinB (31 Aug 2006)

A reason we classify some things US eyes only, Cdn eyes only etc.

Mind you sharing stuff with the French and Italians is like taking out a neon billboard 
in downtown Kabul...


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## North Star (31 Aug 2006)

If they're there to help coordinate patrols along the border, share information and intelligence, this is a positive development. Anything that interferes with the Taliban's ability to cross back and forth into Pakistan is a good thing.


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## KevinB (31 Aug 2006)

North Star said:
			
		

> If they're there to help coordinate patrols along the border, share information and intelligence, this is a positive development. Anything that interferes with the Taliban's ability to cross back and forth into Pakistan is a good thing.



 ;D

Co-ordinate alright.
"Mohammed - dont go now, ISAF is there. wait 30 min...."


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## The Bread Guy (31 Aug 2006)

So young to be so cynical....


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## McG (31 Aug 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Does this not send shudders through those involved in OPSEC.


OEF found ways to make OPSEC work.  Why wouldn't ISAF?


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## geo (31 Aug 2006)

time will tell.... why speculate :warstory:


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## Trinity (31 Aug 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> time will tell.... why speculate :warstory:



Because... that's what we do here at Army.ca

It's not just a game anymore!!!


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## fleeingjam (31 Aug 2006)

Between all the relatives and family members I have had in the PAF, and what i know of the current leader of the country im confident they will do what they have to, to prevent the taliban from entering their borders and help the ISAF fish them out in A-stan. I just hope they don't do what they did in 1993 in Rwanda and send alot of officers rather than NCM's. 

-I hope i got my facts straight :
-Syed


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## Mortar guy (31 Aug 2006)

Usman_Syed said:
			
		

> im confident they will do what they have to, to prevent the taliban from entering their borders and help the ISAF fish them out in A-stan.



Hahahahaha. Right, prevent the Taliban from moving _from_ Afghanistan, _to_ Pakistan. Because, as we all know, there are no Taliban in Pakistan and Quetta is not their base. 

Sorry about the sarcasm but maybe Pakistan should look at seriously rooting out the Taliban in the NWFP and Balochistan before they start trying to fish out Taliban in Afghanistan. Besides, the latter would not exist if it weren't for the former.

MG


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## The Bread Guy (31 Aug 2006)

A few more details, albeit from a few days ago - if this is to be believed, it appears a fair bit of high-level stuff has been discussed ......

*Tripartite Commission of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Coalition agrees on Patrols*
Pakistan Times, 24 Aug 06
http://tinyurl.com/mjevl

Highlights:

KABUL (Afghanistan): The Tripartite Commission, composed of senior military and diplomatic representatives from Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Coalition Forces in Afghanistan, and the NATO International Security Assistance Force, held its 18th meeting here on Wednesday (23 Aug 06).

Delegates included Gen. Ahsan Saleem Hayat, Vice Chief of Army Staff of the Pakistan Army; Gen. Bismullah Khan Mohammedi, Chief of Staff of the Afghan National Army; Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, commander of Combined Forces Command Afghanistan; and Lt. Gen. David Richards, commander of NATO-ISAF.

(....)

In order to co-ordinate the movements along the border areas, the participants discussed and agreed to a proposal to conduct coordinated patrols by the Afghan National Army, Pakistan Army, Coalition Forces and NATO-ISAF forces based in Afghanistan, on their respective sides of the border, simultaneously.

(...)

The Afghan and Pakistani militaries have improved their ability to conduct operations against their common enemy through better communication, enabled by the use of a geospatial data base and high frequency radios, provided by the United States.

The Military Intelligence-Sharing Working Group briefed about the latest efforts to form a three-way Joint Information Operations Center with Afghan and Pakistani liaison officers and the Coalition Forces in Afghanistan.

*The group also discussed the use of secure mobile telephones for intelligence coordination between the Afghan National Army, the Directorate General of (Pakistani) Military Intelligence, the Coalition and NATO-ISAF.*

(....)

The Afghan, Pakistani, and Coalition delegations each presented after-action reports from recent operations to deny sanctuary and safe haven to their common enemy, and to improve the lives of the Afghan people through various reconstruction projects and humanitarian assistance.

The delegations also discussed future operations and how they can better shape the security environment along the border area.

(....)
The Tripartite Commission will meet again in October 2006 in Afghanistan.


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## pbi (4 Sep 2006)

Based on my own experience in 04/05, I am glad to see that Pakistan is making the official gesture, but unfortunately we will need to be careful for at least the first while. Let me say that just because the US had Pak LOs in its HQs does not mean the US opened all the info floodgates and threw discretion to the winds. I think that even the US was well aware of the questionable role and loyalties of some players in Pakistan's ISI, etc. IMHO it is fairly easy to extrapolate these concerns to the Pak Army as well. If ISAF exchanges LOs with the Paks, I would be very interested to see what kind of atmosphere they work in on the Pak side, and how much they actually find out. I bet that we will find that the suspicion is quite mutual.

Cheers


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## the 48th regulator (4 Sep 2006)

Ahh yes PAKBAT, once again.

They did excel slightly over KENBAT, and JORBAT.  And I do emphasise slightly.

dileas

tess


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## Teddy Ruxpin (4 Sep 2006)

> Does this not send shudders through those involved in OPSEC. Some of that information is pretty sensitive and the Pak Army has been known to have Taliban sympathies.





> OEF found ways to make OPSEC work.  Why wouldn't ISAF?





> Let me say that just because the US had Pak LOs in its HQs does not mean the US opened all the info floodgates and threw discretion to the winds.



I would be so bold to suggest that ISAF has security "issues" of its own and that adding PAK LOs isn't going to substantially alter the OPSEC situation.  ISAF leaked (leaks?) like a sieve - hardly surprising given the mix of nations involved and the competing interests.  Remember that ISAF contains a number of non-NATO members and that material is downgraded to "just above rumour" before it is released to the force as a whole.


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## Gunner (4 Sep 2006)

> Remember that ISAF contains a number of non-NATO members and that *material is downgraded to "just above rumour"* before it is released to the force as a whole.



I believe that is referred to as "gossip".


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## pbi (6 Sep 2006)

Teddy is right. My time with ISAF VI was my first real education of just how many national agendas, including those of supposed "friendly nations", are really at play out there, sometimes in fairly blatant and shocking ways. When you get that "boring" counter-intelligence briefing: stop yawning and pay attention. And watch what you say, and to whom.

Cheers


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## BEN 621 (7 Sep 2006)

Major OPSEC issue.
Have a read of "Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, From The Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001" by Steve Cool. A long read, but very objective & informative.
It sheds a lot of light on Pakistan's interference in Afghanistan and their very real interests in seeing the Taliban succeed. It doesn't cover post 9-11 history, but one can see how Pakistan can still be playing both sides. It is dry at first, and very detailed & complicated, but once you get into it you can't stop reading.


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## geo (7 Sep 2006)

sort of ties in with the peace agreement Pakistan has signed with the Pakistani talibans.
Strange that the matter comes up just at the time the taliban need it's jihadi in Afghanistan.


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## The Bread Guy (7 Sep 2006)

Found something from a bit earlier in the summer touching on all these points.....  Shared with the usual disclaimer

*Intelligence officers widen the net in hunt for Taliban*
Ahmed Rashid, Telegraph (UK), 29 Jun 06

A crucial intelligence war is going on in southern Afghanistan, where American, British and Canadian troops are trying to glean better information about the Taliban while attempting to persuade Pakistan to close Taliban command centres and camps.

(...)

*The efforts follow the failure of the American-led coalition and Nato to predict the ferocity and numbers involved in the Taliban offensive that started in the middle of last month. So far, 600 people have died.*

"We were not surprised that the Taliban attacked but the extent of their preparations was surprising," a senior western military officer said in Kabul.

Intelligence officers from several western countries said the Taliban preparations took place through the winter in and around Quetta, the capital of Balochistan, in Pakistan.

*Much of the blame for the lack of information has been placed on the narrow focus of the US military in the past. Until last year the coalition's intelligence operated only in the provinces of eastern Afghanistan and only as far south as Zabul province.

The critical provinces of Helmand, where 3,000 British troops are now deployed, and Kandahar and adjacent Balochistan were not covered. *  The Americans were interested only in catching al-Qa'eda leaders, who were believed to be hiding in the eastern provinces or in Pakistan's adjacent North West Frontier Province.

The Taliban presence farther south was ignored and, *although Pakistan was helping American intelligence, Islamabad turned a blind eye to Taliban activities in Balochistan.*

Condoleezza (Rice's) ... main strategic goal on the trip, which included Islamabad, was to persuade Pakistan and Afghanistan to stop bickering and work more closely in combating militants along their common border.

Mr Karzai has repeatedly urged Nato and the US to get tough with Pakistan, which he accuses of supporting and sheltering the Taliban.

There are now signs of co-operation by Pakistan. Western officers say that for the first time it is deploying its Frontier Corps to try to seal the border between Balochistan and Helmand and Kandahar, although there will remain plenty of places where militants can cross.

*Battle plans, intelligence and communication protocols are being shared with the Pakistanis for Operation Mountain Thrust, the counter-offensive against the Taliban involving British troops.*

*However, a senior western military intelligence officer expressed concern that the co-operation was, and would remain, limited.*

"Mostly we read from the same script with the Pakistanis," he said. "But we know that there is always a page two which is kept under the table and we have to fathom it out." Western military and intelligence officers say that the Taliban have driven more than 100 Toyota Landcruisers across the border from Balochistan in recent weeks to mount attacks against British troops. 

At the same time the Taliban are creating a lethal new cottage industry on the Pakistan side: the manufacture of improvised explosive devices. The components of the devices - electronic panels, triggers, explosive materials and the casings - are manufactured by households, which then send them to the Taliban fighters to be assembled.


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## pbi (9 Sep 2006)

To me, the interesting part is: 


> However, a senior western military intelligence officer expressed concern that the co-operation was, and would remain, limited.
> 
> "Mostly we read from the same script with the Pakistanis," he said. "But we know that there is always a page two which is kept under the table and we have to fathom it out." Western military and intelligence officers say that the Taliban have driven more than 100 Toyota Landcruisers across the border from Balochistan in recent weeks to mount attacks against British troops.



This "page two" is, IMHO, written by those in the Pak system who have another agenda, and have probably had it for a while. I have gathered the impression (based only on casual conversations with a few Pak and Indian officers, so I can't claim proof...) that the last thing some people in the Pak system want is a stable, pro-Western Afghanistan, because they fear that such a neighbour would by nature be pro- Indian. I don't quite follow the reasoning, but there you go.

Cheers


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