# Naval ranks and careers



## Born2Fly (17 Aug 2004)

Sheerin said:
			
		

> Well, since my time in university is just about up, i've started thinking about what to do afterwards... and for some, unexplained reason becoming a MARS is pretty damned attractive.




Well, if you consider the world is currently short something like 40,000 Naval Officers, there's lots of opportunity for you once you call it a career with the CF.




> Damn another officer candidate (just kidding).




This is the Navy. That's Naval Cadet to you.      ;D


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## Sheerin (17 Aug 2004)

Well to be completely honest, the navy is one of about 20 different options i'm considering at the moment, although its in my top 3.  
1) Navy
2) continue on with anthro and get my Ph.D
3) Med School.

Now if I don't say so myself, thats quite the mix of potential careers.  I have the marks for all three, and i'm in pretty decent shape (although I could probably do with some more work).  I'm just not 100% sure on any of those... ah life, gotta love it.


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## Born2Fly (17 Aug 2004)

Have you considered the MOTP (Medical Officer Training Plan)?


That way, technically, you could go to Med School AND join the Navy.


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Aug 2004)

> This is the Navy. That's Naval Cadet to you.



Was referring to him contemplating becoming an officer not his actual rank.

Sheerin...Born2Fly has a good point in looking at going MOTP bare in mind though the only doctors we have going to see are on the AORs and down the road the JSS. Onboard CPFs you just have Med-As and PAs.


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## Born2Fly (17 Aug 2004)

> Was referring to him contemplating becoming an officer not his actual rank.



I know, it's just I spent a lot of time on an army base, and no one on the base had a clue what my rank was. I got "Private", "Corporal", "Seaman", "Navy guy", "Sorry, I don't know your rank". I was always used to correcting them.




> though the only doctors we have going to see are on the AORs and down the road the JSS



Which is very true, and even then I'm sure those will be a hard posting to get. He can still wear a Naval Uniform if he wants, and hopefully serve on a Naval base, but actual time spent on ship will be very, very limited.


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## Sheerin (18 Aug 2004)

Well, the funny thing with the Med School option is, that for the better part of 10 years all I've wanted was to become an MD, however, roughly 9 months or so ago the blinders came off and I realised I had a million-and-one options.  I'm not sure what I'll be doing once I finish my degree, as I mentioned before, I have the marks for everything listed above, as well as many other things.  I may very well end up going to med school but I think I owe to myself as well as everyone else there who wants to be a doctor to only go for it if I'm 100% sure.  I can't think of many things worse (in the world of academia) than someone getting into a tough programme and then dropping out a short time later.  It wastes their time, the instructors time, and takes away a spot from someone else.  

I have a lot of thinking ahead of me.  

Now with that being said, if/when I go to med school I'm fairly certain I'll, at the very least, consider MOTP.  About the only draw back I can think of is the limited number of specialities that the CF offers.

Although, I could always do the MARS thing for a few years then go to med school, say in 8 years or so?  Thats always an option. 
Thanks for your input guys, and please, feel free to keep it coming.  Its good to hear from people who know stuff about things.  
And on that note, please forgive any spelling or grammatical errors, but you know how it is


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## Born2Fly (18 Aug 2004)

Just a quick note on your reply above... When you have your interview with your PSO (Personnel Selection Officer... One of the guys who makes decisions about you), and you even breathe the word "Med School", I'm pretty sure he'll jump all over that, and talk to you about MOTP.

The advice on that is, make sure you are getting what you want from the CF. Don't let them put you into a job you don't want. If you want MARS, then you ask for MARS... Med School or not. I kinda got talked into a trade my first time around in the military, and while that had both good and bad results, I wouldn't recommend it.

First find out what you want, and when you know, make sure you let the CF know what that is.


Keep us updated.


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## governorgeneral (19 Aug 2004)

Born2Fly said:
			
		

> Which is very true, and even then I'm sure those will be a hard posting to get. He can still wear a Naval Uniform if he wants, and hopefully serve on a Naval base, but actual time spent on ship will be very, very limited.



So true.  I'm an A/SLt signed up in the MOTP, and it's pretty much a given I'll be posted to an army or air base for the first few years at least, and maybe have a stint in Halifax or Esquimalt only after the initial return of service (they try to save those popular spots for returning MOs).  Our B Surg here in Kingston's an LCdr I believe - we're one of those purple trades that gets shuffled around wherever we're needed, army, air, naval base, whatever.  Keeping my fingers crossed the JSSs will be up and running by the time I'm out and working...

Good luck Sheerin!


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## Born2Fly (20 Aug 2004)

You should check this video out as well. It was taken onboard HMCS Regina during OP APOLLO. Shows some great Naval Boarding Party footage:

http://www.combatcamera.dnd.ca/video/!2003/arabian_gulf/vid_apollo_e.htm


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## Sheerin (21 Aug 2004)

That's a pretty good video.  It, along with the other video's I've seen as well as hearing from people (especially on this board) make the Navy look all the more attractive.  
Oh out of curiosity, what exactly is level 2 and 1 data, as mentioned in the short movie?  And along the lines of Navy Boarding parties, how difficult is it to get into the training program?


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Aug 2004)

There are only 2 officers per team and 20 on a team so it might be more difficult to get in a slot.


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## Born2Fly (21 Aug 2004)

> Oh out of curiosity, what exactly is level 2 and 1 data, as mentioned in the short movie?




Join the Navy. You'll find out then.  




> And along the lines of Navy Boarding parties, how difficult is it to get into the training program?




Like Ex said above me, those Officer positions are highly coveted, as is the entire team. NBP is one of the functions the Navy does, but it is also a very, very small part of Navy life.


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## Sheerin (21 Aug 2004)

Fair enough on both counts 
And excellent, I love a challenge.


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## painswessex (2 Oct 2004)

If anyone wants to know what the Navy does Watch the Discovery channels HMCS WINNIPEG: ANATOMY OF A WARSHIP. It was done before we went to OP APOLLO.

Leading Seaman 
M.W. Hart
2 SVC BN S&T COY CQMS


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Oct 2004)

I agree with painswessex. Despite it was filmed on a west coastie ship its still a good show, that will answer a lot of questions.


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## Inch (2 Oct 2004)

Born2Fly said:
			
		

> You should check this video out as well. It was taken onboard HMCS Regina during OP APOLLO. Shows some great Naval Boarding Party footage:
> 
> http://www.combatcamera.dnd.ca/video/!2003/arabian_gulf/vid_apollo_e.htm



Anybody notice the Sea Hawk in this video? That's right, we didn't have a serviceable Sea King to send on the Iroquois. Not sure if there was one on the Regina or not.

Cheers


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## MissHardie (22 Oct 2004)

Sheerin,

I've got say, MARS is a huge challenge - a third of our class got cut on BOTC (that's a lot by Venture's standards...apparently they went 'St Jean style on us'.), and while I only did MARS II this summer, watching the MARS III and IV classes... ho boy.  Only 2 of 7 passed MARS IV and got their ticket, and on the MARS III course going on right now, 5 of 20 have already failed - and they haven't even gotten to the hard part yet! Be prepared to be up 'til 0200 planning passages and getting up at 0600 on MARS III to present them and be blasted on all your mistakes... (second hand info from friends who completed MARS III this summer).

That said, MARS training was the time of my life.  I can't wait for MARS III. Nothing is so fun or thrilling as conning a ship and learning how to be Officer of the Watch.  It's a great job.

Also, thought about the Reserves?  I'm currently in fifth year university, and joined the Reserves because while I wanted to join the Navy, I wasn't up for the 9 year deal for Reg Force, especially since I plan on getting a Masters or Law degree. (or both? we'll see.) There are too many things I want to do with my life - much like you, it seems.


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## Dreadnought (27 Oct 2004)

Hey I was reading your post and wanted to ask you a few questions.  When did you get sworn in as a naval cadet?  and did you start at your unit right away?  You said that reservist had BOTC correspondence in the fall, does this mean that it counts towards your real BOTC when you complete in the summer?  When do you get promoted to Acting sub lieutenant?  when you pass Mars IV? I have more questions but i dont want to bombard you with all of them.  If you could answer these that would be great.


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## MissHardie (27 Oct 2004)

I was solemnly affirmed (the equivalent to sworn in, just without the bible) last November.  Yes, I started straight away at my unit - not that there was much for me to do until I went off ot BOTC, but I picked up a couple things during the intervening months (such as how to scrub charts!  They also put me in the NETP mod 1 course, which didn't further my training any but served to introduce me to some actual Navy regs and such).  NavResHQ split BOTC into two parts last year, so my class did BOTC inhouse for 10 weeks and then moved onto MARS II (NETP-O, they call it now.). They did the same thing with MARS II - so this fall I do BOTC part 2, which entails learning the ins and outs of military correspondance, instructional techniques and the art of the speech, and I'll do MARS II part 2 in the winter.  You have to do BOTC during the summer first, though, to do what I'm now doing at my unit.  You can only move onto MARS III once all four components are complete.

I'll be promoted to A/Slt once I finish MARS III, so next year, and then Slt once I finish MARS IV, the year after.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like! I remember going through the recruiting process and not having a clue as to what was going on or what I was getting myself into.


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## RyanNS (27 Oct 2004)

MissHardie said:
			
		

> Sheerin,
> 
> I've got say, MARS is a huge challenge - a third of our class got cut on BOTC (that's a lot by Venture's standards...apparently they went 'St Jean style on us'.), and while I only did MARS II this summer, watching the MARS III and IV classes... ho boy.   Only 2 of 7 passed MARS IV and got their ticket, and on the MARS III course going on right now, 5 of 20 have already failed - and they haven't even gotten to the hard part yet! Be prepared to be up 'til 0200 planning passages and getting up at 0600 on MARS III to present them and be blasted on all your mistakes... (second hand info from friends who completed MARS III this summer).
> 
> ...




I to am thinking about going MARS (DEO) when I graduate next April, but am getting kind of scared off by all this talk of failure rates and whatnot. Why exactly do so many people fail or not succesfully complete the course/training? Is it the academic work? Physical? Not being able to deal with military structure? I'm not the strongest when it comes to math/physics, having never taken it in high school, and am graduating with an Arts degree so I don't really want to get in over my head. Thats the only thing I worry about is that I may start having to do alot of that (math, physics etc.) and not be able to keep up only beacuse of that.


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## MissHardie (29 Oct 2004)

RyanNS,

Have you talked to a recruiter about your questions?  Gone through the recruiting process?  I've not been through MARS III so I can't tell you how hard the math is on the course.  I know, though, that mental math is a valuable skill in the MARS world and you need to be able to deal with fractions and angles for navigation purposes.  Just because you don't have a natural predilection for math doesn't mean you won't make a good MARS officer, just that you'll have to work harder in order to get it down.  I don't think the math involved in the course is the only reason for the high rate of failures... I'd guess mainly stress, watching the course this summer. I'll reiterate, though, that you should definitely talk to the recruiters and find someone that's actually gone through the process - I won't be able to give my opinion for at least another year.


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## Staud (25 Nov 2004)

The failure rate in MARs is high and you need to be completly on the ball, however all you need to be able to do is everything... LOL. No really when I was sailing in the reserves and trying to deal with the MARS jr offrs the one thing I noticed is that they take it like school and not like driving, which is what MARS is. If you kinda know what you are doing you are going to make a bunch of mistakes, but if you know how to do you job 100% then it is easy. You don't need to be as good as someone who has been sailing for years and years but you still need to be good enough. When you learn something, you cannot have any questions about how it works...just keep asking questions and know the procedures by heart. In MARS you do not have time to think you are right and second guess yourself, you need to know exactly what you are doing... sounds hard and it is, but that is also why MARS officers get the kind of respect that they get. Think of it like driving a car when you are 16, you knida know what you are doing, but not that cure of yourself...what would happen if you go a new stereo and now were concentrating on how to change the station...if you didn't know how to steer properly, you would drive off the road as soon as you looked down at the stereo...or when people turn the wheel when they do shoulder checks ... LOL ... not that hard when you know how to drive and the same is true with MARS.. when you think about it like driving a car with one hand on the wheel, one hand holding a big mac, listening to music and talking to your friend in the passenger seat ...it sounds hard and that is exactly what MARS is like, however think to yourself if you could actually do all that in a car.. the answr yes because you are not using your brain to try and figure out the answer, you are just reacting and doing what you know is required....Like we always said in the Ops Rm, when MARS officers start thinking there are going to be problems... HA HA HA it never gets old..Fair winds and following seas


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## Lethbridge U (26 Nov 2004)

"LOL ... not that hard when you know how to drive and the same is true with MARS.. when you think about it like driving a car with one hand on the wheel, one hand holding a big mac, listening to music and talking to your friend in the passenger seat ..."

I love the analogy, that's great!


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## Staud (6 Dec 2004)

Lethbridge U, you like that, eh? Well of course you would, you must be educated if you go to U Leth... I'm class of 99 BA - Exp Social Psych. Long live the Trolls- Cheers


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