# CFAT *Totally New Question*



## slowmode (2 Mar 2007)

Hey guys, Well I know many of you are going to read the title of this topic and tell your selves "man this guy did not do his research". Well, I looked through as many topics as I could and I was not able to find the exact answer I was looking for. I made sure this topic post would not be a waste. 

Anyway, I got called today to do my CFAT and I'm doing it the Monday of March Break. I am hoping to get into the 33rd Engineers. I feel like i'm set for everything on the test except the math part. I have been studying divison, multiplication, dividing fractions, and such. I have also be practicing BEDMASS *ex: 5(3-3)+3-5 *. My main question is: Is that all the math I really need to study? Should I study the substitution method and elimination method and algebra. I just want to be really ready for this.

Thanks a lot for the Help.

Mike G.


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## MediTech (2 Mar 2007)

When you take the test they tell you that you are not to tell anyone about the content.  Your best bet is to check out any information you can find on the forum or on the forces.ca website.  I would like to help you out but that would be dishonest.  Don't worry about the test too much.


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## slowmode (2 Mar 2007)

Thats fair enough, I was not aware your not allowed telling people questions that are on the test. Sorry for the mixup.

But atleast are you able to tell me what to study? Like what parts of math possibly?


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## Nfld Sapper (2 Mar 2007)

Try here http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/resources/howtojoin_en.aspx?bhcp=1, click on the prepare for aptitude test.


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## 241 (2 Mar 2007)

Here is a suggestion, study everything that you learned in High school, then you will have everthing covered and at worst will have refreshed your memory on stuff that didn't happen to be on the test.  Better to study to much than not enough....


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## slowmode (2 Mar 2007)

Thanks a lot for the help everyone.


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## orange.paint (3 Mar 2007)

I graduated with a 51 in academic math.(My days absent were higher than my mark.)
I passed the test with every trade open to me.
Don't worry about it,it ain't hard....its the army.


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## Al_729 (3 Mar 2007)

I recently wrote the CFAT.  As with some others here, I was not a good math student in high school.  Knowing this I studied up on my high school math pretty intensively for this and passed it easily.  Do not go into it thinking it will be a breeze- if this is important to you spend the time to get ready for it. As shown multiple times in the other CFAT discussions there are many math sites and government practice tests that you can use online to prepare for the CFAT.
Good luck.

Cheers


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## SoF (3 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Don't worry about it,it ain't hard....its the army.



EX_RCAC_011, I see that you have 7 years in the reg force (which is 7 more than I have btw) so with all due respect it's attutudes like the one quoted above that encourage the "wrong" people to join.


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## orange.paint (3 Mar 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> EX_RCAC_011, I see that you have 7 years in the reg force (which is 7 more than I have btw) so with all due respect it's attutudes like the one quoted above that encourage the "wrong" people to join.



I was telling a young member not to worry about the test as it is easy.Who are the right people who join the army?Does a mathematical genius make a better armoured crewman.My short 7 years says no.As I said I did very poorly in math.Am I saying everyone should give a rats *** about math?No.I was explaining how basic the math on the test was.I did poorly in math due to my non attendance during my final year.How the hell does that reflect on my soldier skills/advancement in the army?You tend to grow up in the army.I was 17 when I joined the reg force.

As a NCM in the Armoured Corp I have never applied Hess's law from chemistry.As for math I have a conversion chart in my pocket to convert quarts to liters/km to miles etc.
I have a adequate knowledge of basic math skill's that get me through life.My wife a graduate of the Ontario schooling system requires a calculator for everything,unlike myself.

What are the "Wrong" people in your opinion?I guess having said that I spent 7 years in an army I wasn't suited for? :

P.S:Before you insult the intelligence of someone,maybe you should spell "attutudes" correctly.As on PER's there is a score for written communication,but neither one for math skills.


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## slowmode (3 Mar 2007)

THanks a lot guys for all the help.

This is what i'm doing, everyday  before the test I'm reviewing my multiplacation, addition, subtraction, fraction and divison. I am not thinking like *oh this will be a breeze*. I am going to act like this is my exam, it can determin my future so  I will study hard.


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## career_radio-checker (3 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Don't worry about it,it ain't hard....its the army.



Uhh... it is the army, and the army has a spectacular gift for making the simplest things appear hard. 
A _simple_ way around that is to READ THE QUESTION! -- twice if need be -- and not to be fooled by the army's logic, that's the only hard part  ;D.

Good luck


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## SoF (3 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> I was telling a young member not to worry about the test as it is easy.Who are the right people who join the army?Does a mathematical genius make a better armoured crewman.My short 7 years says no.As I said I did very poorly in math.Am I saying everyone should give a rats *** about math?No.I was explaining how basic the math on the test was.I did poorly in math due to my non attendance during my final year.How the hell does that reflect on my soldier skills/advancement in the army?You tend to grow up in the army.I was 17 when I joined the reg force.
> 
> As a NCM in the Armoured Corp I have never applied Hess's law from chemistry.As for math I have a conversion chart in my pocket to convert quarts to liters/km to miles etc.
> I have a adequate knowledge of basic math skill's that get me through life.My wife a graduate of the Ontario schooling system requires a calculator for everything,unlike myself.
> ...



EX_RCAC_011, you seemed to have totally misunderstood my reply and took it as a personal potshot towards your mathematical skills. I was not trying to "insult your intelligence". I was just stating my disappointment toward your pervious comment; "it ain't hard....its the army" (please lets not start bashing each others spelling/grammar).Yes you were telling a young member "not to worry about the test as it is easy" but you were also telling him and any other potential recruit who reads this thread the the army is the easy way, a joke almost. The way you worded that comment may make potential recruits think the army is not only "not hard" but infact the opposite; easy. An attitude like that is contagious, especially to new recruits who still don't know what the military really is. I found that comment of yours to be disrespectful to the army and military which is why I brought it up. I was not insulting you or your mathamatical skills and I want you to understand that.


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## eerickso (3 Mar 2007)

When I did the test, it was multiple choice. You read a bunch of numbered questions and marked the correct answer on another sheet. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT THESE TYPES OF TESTS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN YOU ARE DOING QUESTION 9, YOU FILL OUT THE CORRECT SPOT ON THE OTHER SHEET. The reason I am saying this is that sometimes you might need to skip an answer and you might fill out the next question in the wrong place. Many smart people fail this type of test for that reason!!


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## orange.paint (3 Mar 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> EX_RCAC_011, you seemed to have totally misunderstood my reply and took it as a personal potshot towards your mathematical skills. I was not trying to "insult your intelligence". I was just stating my disappointment toward your pervious comment; "it ain't hard....its the army" (please lets not start bashing each others spelling/grammar).Yes you were telling a young member "not to worry about the test as it is easy" but you were also telling him and any other potential recruit who reads this thread the the army is the easy way, a joke almost. The way you worded that comment may make potential recruits think the army is not only "not hard" but infact the opposite; easy. An attitude like that is contagious, especially to new recruits who still don't know what the military really is. I found that comment of yours to be disrespectful to the army and military which is why I brought it up. I was not insulting you or your mathamatical skills and I want you to understand that.



The army testing is a joke.What do you want me to say?It really difficult and all should be worried?It's not a hard exam.Period.

How is it disrespectful to the army?How about when I say the fitness standards is a joke?Is that disrespectful?No its true.As is the exam to enter the military.

As for "it ain't hard its the army" it's a pretty common phrase.Doing a section attack or completing a PCF does not require a PHD.It requires common sense (read common-as most people have it).It's not an insult to the army.I'm just not one of those guys who come on line and tell young recruits how difficult BMQ and entry exam's are.Why?Because it isn't difficult.

The usual people who rant about how"you better study your butt off" are the same guys who just got in, and want to validate their very small experience.Making it look like they accomplished something difficult.

Now if your basic math skills are low,study!However as a person who graduated highschool and entered I didn't find it necessary.I also didn't have fancy internet connections to look up tests.I just went there and wrote the darn thing.


Guys coming in review basic math (grade 12) if you believe you will have a problem.Don't stress out over it,and take your time on the exam.You will be fine.


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## SoF (3 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> How is it disrespectful to the army?



A comment like "it ain't hard....its the army" makes the entire army (not just the cfat or other tests) appear to be a joke, not exactly the kind of attitude you a want a new recruit going into bmq thinking. As for my previous comment about recruiting the wrong people; well lets just say I wouldn't want to work with someone who has no respect for the organization he/she works for.


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## bcbarman (3 Mar 2007)

Everyone seems to get hung up on the math part of the test.  It is not called the "math" portion, it is called the problem solving portion. There is more to the CFAT then figuing out if you paid more attention to Mrs. Andersons chest then the chalkboard.  The problem solving part is to see if you can solve problems in a timely manner in a controled enviroment. We use math in some ellements because basic math is needed for all members of the military.  Calculate a back bearing, convert to mills, measure the number of ounces of milk in Scrambled eggs.  We need the math, but its not the reason we test it.  

To pass the CFAT, study basic grade 10 math, get a good nights sleep, arrive prepared and rested, and answer every question the best you can.  If you have 10 min left, go back and re check the answers.  that question that you put your best guess at, well, now you have time to work it through.


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## Gimpy (3 Mar 2007)

In all honesty the CFAT isn't very difficult. With myself as an example I only passed Grade 10 math with a 51 and on the CFAT I was told that I was in the 93rd percentile. All you need to do to do well on the CFAT is study some aptitude tests on the internet the week leading up to the test and you'll be perfectly fine. You also get some sheets of paper to solve the problems on so its not like you have to do all the equations in you're head. Just stay focused and the answers should come rather easily.

Just to add, I took my CFAT in January of this year, so it wasn't too long ago.


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## orange.paint (3 Mar 2007)

bcbarman said:
			
		

> Everyone seems to get hung up on the math part of the test.  It is not called the "math" portion, it is called the problem solving portion. There is more to the CFAT then figuing out if you paid more attention to Mrs. Andersons chest then the chalkboard.  The problem solving part is to see if you can solve problems in a timely manner in a controled enviroment. We use math in some ellements because basic math is needed for all members of the military.  Calculate a back bearing, convert to mills, measure the number of ounces of milk in Scrambled eggs.  We need the math, but its not the reason we test it.
> 
> To pass the CFAT, study basic grade 10 math, get a good nights sleep, arrive prepared and rested, and answer every question the best you can.  If you have 10 min left, go back and re check the answers.  that question that you put your best guess at, well, now you have time to work it through.



Good answer.

Did anyone ever have issues with this exam?Personally I dont think I'm a brilliant man,I never studied and had every trade open.And as bcbarman said....grade 10 math.

..but whats with the backbearing thing.....thats a joke right. ;D

Just to add..I cant defend right now as I'm heading out to kill the math part of my brain with vodka.


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## career_radio-checker (3 Mar 2007)

SoF said:
			
		

> A comment like "it ain't hard....its the army" makes the entire army (not just the cfat or other tests) appear to be a joke, not exactly the kind of attitude you a want a new recruit going into bmq thinking. As for my previous comment about recruiting the wrong people; *well lets just say I wouldn't want to work with someone who has no respect for the organization he/she works for*.



No disrespect SoF, I hope that most recruits take the testing and organization just as serious as you do, but... The recruit in question is in the room with you and can see what you're typing. How might that last sentence make a new recruit who is excited to join feel? Might be an unneeded anxiety going into testing?

I'm sure you'll do fine slowmode, just keep reviewing and remember to breath during the test.


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## orange.paint (3 Mar 2007)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> Relax.It's the army. ;D
> 
> Hey remember if sigdes passed it you'll be fine...he didnt get by on his dapper good looks all his life.


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## eerickso (3 Mar 2007)

It is likely that the  CFAT is more of a measurement tool than a filter. The military most likely wants to make sure that the square pegs go into the square holes and the round pegs go into the round holes.


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## career_radio-checker (3 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> Hey remember if sigdes passed it you'll be fine...he didnt get by on his dapper good looks all his life.



The only part Sig_Des failed was trying to define "Humble". ;D


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## slowmode (3 Mar 2007)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> No disrespect SoF, I hope that most recruits take the testing and organization just as serious as you do, but... The recruit in question is in the room with you and can see what you're typing. How might that last sentence make a new recruit who is excited to join feel? Might be an unneeded anxiety going into testing?
> 
> I'm sure you'll do fine slowmode, just keep reviewing and remember to breath during the test.



Thanks a lot, ill review my divison and such just so I can do that quicly. I took gr10 college math in high school *'im in gr11 now*. Thanks


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## SoF (3 Mar 2007)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> How might that last sentence make a new recruit who is excited to join feel? Might be an unneeded anxiety going into testing?



It shouldn't affect how they feel in a negative way. It just notifies them that there are people out there who prefer not work with others that don't respect their career.


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## orange.paint (3 Mar 2007)

yawn....
wife getting ready...
Good stuff.Being in grade 11 and fresh up on the math I doubt you will have issues.No harm in studying,but I wouldnt stay up all night stressing out.Thats one thing that bugs me is watching young guys stress.(I.E grenade ranges...it thus becomes scary for us ;D)


Good luck.The staff will give you tips on how to complete the test the best once you get there.I.E dont spend the whole test on question #1. ;D

Educated guess works well on the one's you can't get.

One that caused me problems was a certain word in the english language.I never seen it before in newfoundland,but I guess people who live "upalong" use it frequently.Still guessed it correctly.

Good luck.
And post back your results.Look foward to say "I told you so!"

cheers

ex_rcac_011


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## MattP (3 Mar 2007)

I just did my CFAT back in December, I am in grade 11, and during grade 10 math, scored something like a 54. The CFAT isn't designed to fail you, a lot of people who went into the test with me, were nervous as they thought the army was 'out to get them' or that they wanted you to fail. Quite the opposite I found, the links in other posts to IQ tests and other such things are great, I studied them a few weeks prior too, and brushed up on basic math (division, percentages, algebra, multiplication, addition, subtraction etc...) and I did fine. The test isn't a 'breeze' I found, but it isn't insanely difficult, sounds contradictory, but it all depends on your personal and academic strength's and weaknesses. 

The best tips I have found on this site, that helped me were 
1. get a good nights sleep (IMPORTANT!)
2. have a good breakfast
3. give yourself PLENTY of time to get there, that way you aren't stressed for time (once you get there you can relax, have time to ask questions, washroom etc...)
4. Study beforehand
5. watch the time left on the little clock
6. RELAX <--- most important, many people (including myself) can get a little nervous on written tests when they see its timed. RELAX, and do what you can, if you have to make a guess, make an educated one. a guess is better then nothing

 Like I said, I just passed math last year, yet on the CFAT, I qualified for every single trade and was sworn in last week RO21 (reserve) artillery - apparently one of the more mathematically demanding combat arms trades, so I'm told.

so..... RELAX, be confident, prepare, and you'll do fine. 

MattP


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## Sig_Des (3 Mar 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> remember if sigdes passed it you'll be fine...he didnt get by on his dapper good looks all his life.



Ain't that the truth. It ain't the smarts that got me in, either :-\



			
				career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> The only part Sig_Des failed was trying to define "Humble". ;D



"Humility is the mother of giants. One sees great things from the valley; only small things from the peak"

How do you like it in the valley, CRC?

Keep in mind that when I did my CFAT, I had to fight 43 ninjas to get into the testing room, perform mouth-to-mouth on a buxom blonde, and then carry her to safety after aceing the test. Then I had to sacrifice my own afternoon consoling the damsel...The things I do in service of my country.  ;D


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## career_radio-checker (3 Mar 2007)

Your humility continues to inspire

BTW, the view from the valley is great. While you're climbing to the peak, I hope you don't mind that I helped myself to a couple of smokes from your car.  ;D


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## orange.paint (4 Mar 2007)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> ...The things I do in service of my country.  ;D



Don't we all brother....don't we all.


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## Brett (6 Mar 2007)

Bias. One's opinion of a test might be totally different to another. I took the practice a few months ago. I struggled a lot.

I have my CFAT, medical and interview all on this upcoming thursday at the CF Recruiting Center in Hamilton, Ontario. I start at 9 AM and end probably around 12-130 PM [not certain however].

Go in with confidence, Don't say to yourself over and over agin, "Oh noes! I'm going to fail and never get in!!"  With an attitude and mental thought like that...sure, you'll fail. If you go in confident and proud knowing you will try your hardest and not let the test get the better half of you, then congradulations on passing cfat.

I'm nervous as hell about my test...I'm trying my hardest to overcome the subconscious constraints of all those words they add in there just to confuse you [courtesy of practice cfat]. 

I'm cool with it, though. I have a large vote of confidence not only from myself, but from my peers and family as well.

Good luck to myself and those within the near future taking their cfats.

...Oh btw My name is Brett..I'm 17 and in grade 12. I'm hoping to get into the summer program this summer, and then possibly join full-time with the RHLI...Possibly take the Nuclear, Chemical and Biological Defence course.

:]


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## slowmode (8 Mar 2007)

THanks lot guys, I have been taking all your opininions and suggestions. I took a gr 10 math book and I reviewed basic divison, fractions, and such. Thanks guys . Ill inform you all of the results on Monday


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## Brett (8 Mar 2007)

if they sign the 10-day waver, i'm allowed to re-take cfat...i was off my math by about 2 questions...other 2 parts were fine a long with my drug background..

ouch to me.


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## slowmode (12 Mar 2007)

I passed guys!!! I passed!!! 33rd Engineers I'm going for , thanks a lot for all your helps!!

And if people are wondering, i'm not going to lie it was hard as hell.


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## Brett (12 Mar 2007)

Congratulations! You must have done very well, slowmode, it's good to hear good things happen. Good luck and have fun!


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## slowmode (12 Mar 2007)

Brett said:
			
		

> Congratulations! You must have done very well, slowmode, it's good to hear good things happen. Good luck and have fun!



I dont know, I wonder how much I needed to get to get into engineering. It was SO hard, I guessed a lot.


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## Brett (13 Mar 2007)

Multiple choice can be difficult though. The objective is to choose the most suitable answer possible. All answers offered could be correct, but which one is the best? That's something to consider when doing a multiple choice-based test.


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## slowmode (13 Mar 2007)

Yea, I miss the good old days when It was only 2 multiple choise answers


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## aesop081 (13 Mar 2007)

OK....i knew when i saw " totaly new question" that it was going to turn into another 31 pages of the same old stuff.....

This one is done

army.ca staff


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