# New Problem with US intelligence



## Edward Campbell (4 Jul 2014)

This, from the _Financial Times_, is yet another blow to the US Intelligence Community's credibility with allies:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b1063cf0-0369-11e4-9195-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=intl#axzz36WjfST4p


> Germany arrests US double agent, reports claim
> 
> By Jeevan Vasagar in Berlin
> 
> ...




This is a blunder because, just last year, in the wake of the Snowden fiasco, President Obama apologized to Chancellor Merkel for intercepting her calls and promised it was over; maybe he's kept that promise, but even if he did he should have told his officials to wrap up operations against the Germans, for a while at least ... maybe he did that, too, and they just ignored him. In any event the US looks both two-faced and a bit amateurish.

No one should be surprised that allies spy on one another, but they ought to do it with a bit more discretion.


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## George Wallace (4 Jul 2014)

I agree, one would have to be very naive to think that Allies do not spy on each other.  What I find more troubling about the US Intelligence networks, is their being infiltrated by members supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood, and perhaps other terrorist organizations.  

Last year we saw this, and it is again in the news as of a couple days ago:

Muslim Brotherhood operatives infiltrate Obama Administration


History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government

Breaking: Benghazi “Smoking Gun” Email Distributed to Muslim Brotherhood Agent


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## Edward Campbell (7 Jul 2014)

More, again reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _Financial Times_, on how Chancellor Merkel is using this incident to beat up on President Obama, this time with Xi Jinping as a (willing) prop:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/47649330-05b9-11e4-8b94-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=intl#axzz36m5Z5Ws9


> Angela Merkel indignant at claims US recruited German as double agent
> 
> By Tom Mitchell in Beijing and Jeevan Vasagar in Berlin
> 
> ...




The 'big deal' behind Germany's _outrage_ is, of course, the ongoing EU/USA free trade negotiations.

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Mods: I think I started this on the wrong page  :-[ ; maybe it belongs on the _International Defence and Security_ page.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Jul 2014)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Mods: I think I started this on the wrong page  :-[ ; maybe it belongs on the _International Defence and Security_ page.



..and moved.
Bruce


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## Nemo888 (8 Jul 2014)

That's why if you spy for an ally you go one better and become a triple agent. At least all the paranoia turns into some pay packets.


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## Edward Campbell (12 Jul 2014)

More on this story, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from _Slate_: 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2014/07/nsa_german_american_relations_angela_merkel_is_angry_about_u_s_spying_we.html


> Angela Merkel Is Very Angry
> *In expelling the CIA station chief in Berlin, she’s sending a serious message to Obama.*
> 
> By Fred Kaplan
> ...




Of course, no one knows if there was a real "five eyes" type discussion and no one knows why Germany would balk at the bill, but the Germans are, undoubtedly, skilled at the international intelligence gathering business and they might, very well, not want to share.

What is clear is that Chancellor Merkel is miffed.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Jul 2014)

Personally I think it all boils down to the 'cellphone' thing,...............she's not so much pissed that they were monitoring it, but that they succeeded in monitoring it.
Everything after that is just trying to save some face....


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## Edward Campbell (14 Jul 2014)

I'm amazed that anyone at all ever says anything over a cell phone. It is an unencrypted radio, much like a World War II _walkie talkie_ ...






... did no one learn anything from Prince Charles' comments about wanting to be a tampon? That was in the early 1990s (I was still serving) ... there was a lesson: don't use unencrypted circuits ... period.

(And don't forget that your landline circuit is, fairly often, carried on radio links and I can use a simple _induction_ tap to listen to your landline from outside of your home. And I can build one with parts from Radio Shack.)


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## pbi (25 Jul 2014)

> “The Americans have to observe the law just like everyone else.



This may be what the Minister thinks. I don't believe it is a universally held opinion in the US. "American Exceptionalism" and all that.  While many Americans seem to believe that they should be able to extend the enforcement of their laws into other countries (example: recent insistence on Canadian banks identifying US account holders), I don't think there is very much enthusiasm for the reverse. 

All that aside, one thing I learned in Afghanistan (much to my naive surprise...) was that spying on allies was a growth industry. Looks like it still is.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Aug 2014)

Well, of course they were accidents.............. :-X

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/german-intelligence-accidentally-eavesdropped-on-u-s-officials-report-1.1962530

Frank Jordans, The Associated Press 

BERLIN -- Germany's foreign intelligence agency eavesdropped on calls made by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and his predecessor Hillary Clinton, German magazine Der Spiegel reported Saturday.

The respected news weekly reported that the agency, known by its German acronym BND, tapped a satellite phone conversation Kerry made in 2013 as part of its surveillance of telecommunications in the Middle East. The agency also recorded a conversation between Clinton and former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan a year earlier, Der Spiegel claimed.

The magazine didn't give a source for its information, but said the calls were collected accidentally, that the three officials weren't directly targeted, and the recordings were ordered destroyed immediately. In Clinton's case, the call reportedly took place on the same "frequency" as a terror suspect, according to Der Spiegel.

The tapping of Clinton's call was reported Friday by German public broadcaster ARD and Munich daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung.
If true, the revelations would be embarrassing for the German government, which has spent months complaining to Washington about alleged American spy activity in Germany. Last year German media reports based on documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden prompted a sharp rebuke from Chancellor Angela Merkel, who was allegedly among the U.S. intelligence agency's targets.

A spokesman for the U.S. embassy in Berlin and the State Department in Washington declined to comment on the latest reports.
In its report Saturday, Der Spiegel also cited a confidential 2009 BND document listing fellow NATO member Turkey as a target for German intelligence gathering.

The Germany intelligence agency didn't immediately respond to a request for comment Saturday.


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## cupper (17 Aug 2014)

Something about people in glass houses comes to mind. ;D


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## OldSolduer (17 Aug 2014)

Everyone spies on everyone else. It's been that way since Day 1.


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