# Oxfords versus boots



## andy82 (17 Aug 2013)

I was wondering if anyone might know in the dress regulations where it stipulates that only officers and CWOs can wear oxfords as oppose to ankle boots. I know it's an obscure topic, but I'm surprise by how often I'm asked, and I cannot find any specification in the dress regs.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Aug 2013)

All WOs can wear them.


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## drunknsubmrnr (17 Aug 2013)

Are NCM's below WO issued oxfords still? If so, they're probably allowed to wear them as per dress regs, although the senior NCMs may get a bit bent out of shape if there isn't a good reason for wearing them. 

I used to wear them to work because the pedals on my truck were a bit too close together to wear with boots. I explained the situation to my coxn and nobody gave me any grief over them.


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## Robert0288 (17 Aug 2013)

Most of the people I work with have been issued them.  I've worn them to mess dinners, because I don't want to mess up my boots.  No one's harassed me about it for the past couple of years I've been doing it.


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## ModlrMike (17 Aug 2013)

There is a custom that maintains that Officers wear shoes and NCMs wear boots. There is no regulation per se that only CWO and Officers wear shoes. That being said, I've worn shoes as an NCM and boots as an Officer and have not been hassled once. Page 6C-4 of A-AD-265-000/AG-001 clearly illustrates either shoes or boots as acceptable footwear regardless of rank. Of course the CO and/or RSM has the authority to stipulate further what one can or can't wear at any given time.


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## PuckChaser (18 Aug 2013)

I only wear Oxfords for mess dinners where I'm in white shirt + bow tie. Every other time its boots. Never had an issue wearing them at dinners.


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## The_Falcon (18 Aug 2013)

If you wear a kilt with DEU its simple... Oxfords.


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## Tom Vader (23 Aug 2013)

I was issued low shoes in 1980; they were good for shining; as a former Infantry senior NCO I believe  that men wear boots; officers wear low shoes. 
I see no relevance to discussing low shoes . Can they not decide on a better combat boot for you guys?


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## Furniture (24 Aug 2013)

Unless I'm on parade I wear the oxfords. They are more comfortable, and it reduces the wear and tear on my boots.


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## Humphrey Bogart (24 Aug 2013)

Interesting tidbit here, at 3 RCR we had a tradition that officers would always wear boots on parade.  Every parade I ever did at the Bn all the officers were always in boots.  I actually believe Regimental Standing Orders of the RCR also dictate that all officers will wear boots when parading.  We also swing our other arm while we march with swords and the scabbard is clipped to our side.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (24 Aug 2013)

Regs are quite clear, unless specifically directed by the CO, both NCM and officers can wear either boots or oxfords with their DEU.

Personally, I have always felt that the governing principles should involve evaluating three aspects: Safety, Uniformity and "civilian" circumstances.

Safety: Onboard ship -  all wear the boots.
Uniformity: For a parade - boots for NCM and oxfords for the officers.
"civilian" circumstances: All, NCM and officer alike, wear the shoes with the DEU when they are in public but not in organized group, such as traveling or attending a conference, etc. Because the DEU is our equivalent to a civilian's office suit and civilians don't wear boots to the office.


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## ATCO (25 Aug 2013)

Being in the Army now, I've heard so many times that officers on parade can only wear shoes... 

So I refer to the Dress Manual A-AD-265-000/AG-001, Annex C, para 5 : "For army members, boots ankle shall be the normal footwear ordered worn on parade."

I also note that our new officers get issued both Oxfords and ankle boots.

Like Oldgateboatdriver mentioned, for the sake of uniformity, a CO may issue something specific for a parade.


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## Rifleman62 (25 Aug 2013)

RoyalDrew:


> We also swing our other arm while we march with swords and the *scabbard is clipped to our side*.



It is called: Hooked Up.



> Interesting tidbit here, at 3 RCR we had a tradition that officers would always wear boots on parade.  Every parade I ever did at the Bn all the officers were always in boots



In the olden days the RSM would take the junior officers to the edge of the Bn Pde Sq and confirm drill, Regt/Bn quiffs, and standards.

Good for morale as the soldiers saw the other side of the RSM i.e. "politely" and eloquently giving correction, as well as the officers receiving the RSM's love.  

I personally always wore boots on parade after commissioning. In one unit, all officers wore boots for all parades. A change of command was conducted in CADPAT with *all ranks* carrying the rifle with fixed bayonet.

Officers _appear_ to do better drill when wearing the same boots as their soldiers. 

A pair of oxfords that have been built up with sole and heal will help cushion the foot if oxfords are insisted on for officers on parade.


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## Fishbone Jones (25 Aug 2013)

A long time ago, I was issued two pair of shoes and two pair of boots.

One pair of boots went directly to the shoemaker.  We never even took them out of the box. They were then double soled and double heeled as well as cleated. (Which we were required to pay for.)

One set of shoes were given over as well and they were cleated.

That was my initial issue.

We seldom wore the shoes, but were directed to on occasion.

I think it was to see if we still had them.


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## Rifleman62 (25 Aug 2013)

> One pair of boots went directly to the shoemaker.  We never even took them out of the box. They were then double soled and double heeled as well as cleated. (Which we were required to pay for.)



Same. If they were the Ammo Boots we were issued in the old days,the boots were also toecapped. Taken home and spooned to get the pebbles off. 

Same cleats you see on Second World War photos.


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## jpjohnsn (25 Aug 2013)

ATCO said:
			
		

> Being in the Army now, I've heard so many times that officers on parade can only wear shoes...
> 
> So I refer to the Dress Manual A-AD-265-000/AG-001, Annex C, para 5 : "For army members, boots ankle shall be the normal footwear ordered worn on parade."
> 
> ...


Local orders being the thing to follow being a given...

Three times in my career I've had someone tell me that air force officers don't wear ankle boots unless specifically ordered to.   

The first time was when I was a fairly new 2Lt and the 3-ringer father of a friend of mine popped in for a visit and saw me wearing the ankle boots.  In the friendliest correction I've ever received, he said 'son, I know you used to be an air cadet and you feel comfortable in boots but the only time an air officer wears boots is with workdress - and officers shouldn't be wearing workdress".  Not 100% accurate, obviously, but I got the hint.  

The second time was a buddy of mine who told me that while at Royal Roads, the sergeant major told the air-type officer cadets flat out that once they left the college they wouldn't be wearing their boots on parade any more.

The third time was at Borden at an Air Force Birthday parade, years ago, when the CO of a local air cadet squadron, who was going to command the air cadet contingent on parade, got jacked up by the Wing CWO for wearing boots on "his" parade square. 

No specific regs, to be sure - but this is what I've encountered over the years, obviously YMMV.


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## Humphrey Bogart (27 Aug 2013)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> RoyalDrew:
> It is called: Hooked Up.
> 
> In the olden days the RSM would take the junior officers to the edge of the Bn Pde Sq and confirm drill, Regt/Bn quiffs, and standards.
> ...



Thanks for the info, cheers!


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## Mr. St-Cyr (27 Aug 2013)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> A change of command was conducted in CADPAT with *all ranks* carrying the rifle with fixed bayonet.



Fixed bayonets. You weren't in a Rifle regiment during that time, were you? That would be blasphemous.


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## Danjanou (27 Aug 2013)

Of course when recceguy is talking about his initial issue of footwear he means these;








 8)


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## George Wallace (27 Aug 2013)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Of course when recceguy is talking about his initial issue of footwear he means these;



I see you posted the Temperate Zone ones.   Do you have photos of the Desert issue?


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## CombatDoc (27 Aug 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I see you posted the Temperate Zone ones.   Do you have photos of the Desert issue?


The arid look the same, same quality construction too, only in a lighter tan colour.


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## Rifleman62 (27 Aug 2013)

Mr. St-Cyr said:
			
		

> Fixed bayonets. You weren't in a Rifle regiment during that time, were you? That would be blasphemous.



Not at that time. 

The Royal Winnipeg Rifles did fix swords during the centennial (1983). The Regiment exercised it's right to freedom of the city granted 26 May 68. The CO convinced the RSM (me) it was necessary. As recompense, the regiment immediately adopted Rifle Regt drill (all drill movements start and end at the Stand At Ease position etc) which I had just written. Rifle Regt drill was used on the 4 Jun 83 parade which surprised many spectators!!


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