# Active Edge '04



## PTE Gruending (29 Aug 2004)

Well I just got back from Active Edge 04 and Wainright last nite, and it was an interesting exercise to say the least. Working with 1PPCLI LAV III's and LDSH(RC) Leo's, in addition to live-fire platoon attacks and company attacks. Anyone else attend this ex? What were your thoughts on it?


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## spacelord (29 Aug 2004)

I was in the non-live fire company and there was  absolutley no enemy force for the final attack. What is up with that?  What do you know about the people who were left behind in the impact area?  I heard it was 3 people who were forgotten, and  also that is was a platoon that had not been picked up yet.


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## D-n-A (29 Aug 2004)

I worked wtih Western Service Battalion during the ex, working as a storesman. It was a pretty good ex, the weather sucked for most of the week though. I liked working with people from different units and from the reg force, I learned a lot.  I'll post some pictures that I took later on today.


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## stukirkpatrick (29 Aug 2004)

I just got in the door a 1/2 hour ago, and I thought the exercise was really good training, albeit a few letdowns (mainly, the lack of repeatedly promiesd helo ops, and the aforementioned lack of enemy for non-live A Coy during their attack.  The rain during the first few days was definitely uncomfortable, but once the weather cleared up, the tank/LAV/combined Arms training was extremely fun.  :warstory:  Getting bushwacked on all sides by Leopards and LAVs and dismounted infantry, while being enemy force, was quite fun to watch  :skull:

Partly because of the unfortunate course cancellations this summer, there was an entire platoon of SQ qualified soldiers, but we were able to participate in most of the training, thankfully  8)

Who else was in the non-live fire Coy?

I also find it quite sad that the Leopard Tanks (and Cougars) are being phased out - but the reasons given (being unable to deploy elsewhere in the world, and the current trend of operations) makes sense.  If only Canada was able to carry its own weight, at least for the equipment it does have.


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## PTE Gruending (29 Aug 2004)

The weather on Sunday definetly was challenging, rain and wind knocked out a couple troops from our Coy due to hypothermia... seems like everyone's kit was soaked to the bone, no respite from the rain!

Working with LAV's and Leo's was very cool and usefull, I found the 1PPCLI and LDSH(RC) troops to be quite knowledgeable and professional. The LAVIII's were generally thought to be the coolest by the guys in my platoon, although it may have something to do with not having to hump a few KM's to get to an objective ;-). Seeing how the whole combined arms/modern army concept works is very interesting. Leo's and LAV's in front, with Infantry ready to dismount, and the support column behind makes you think of the whole picture. The PL CMD and PL WO from a platoon in my company were injured when their LAV hit a large bump at speed, as they were standing up in the rear hatches. It stopped the action for the day, and I hope them a speedy recovery.

For me the best part was the live fire platoon attack, as I was a C6 gunner with a lot of ammo  :threat:  :gunner:

Blasting those dismounted inf and BMP targets was very cool...


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## D-n-A (29 Aug 2004)

Heres some of the pictures I took

http://www.pbase.com/activeedge04


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## PTE Gruending (29 Aug 2004)

Ahhh yes, the red rover game waiting for the bus at end-ex, did you see us NSASKr's playing football?




			
				Combat_Cook said:
			
		

> Heres some of the pictures I took
> 
> http://www.pbase.com/activeedge04


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## D-n-A (30 Aug 2004)

Yea, I saw a few of you guys playing.


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## stukirkpatrick (30 Aug 2004)

> Ahhh yes, the red rover game waiting for the bus at end-ex, did you see us NSASKr's playing football?



 :threat:   At end ex, they had the LSSR guys counting and linking ammo, because our companies did not return it the proper way, and they chose us because we didn't leave until the next day   

but I as well have a few active edge photos, including several vehicles - http://www.pbase.com/sjkirkpa/activeedge

I tried to take a band-of-brothers style one for the first picture, of A Coy relaxing in the mist, waiting for our HL-icoptors   ;D


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2004)

Kirkpatrick said:
			
		

> but I as well have a few active edge photos, including several vehicles - http://www.pbase.com/sjkirkpa/activeedge
> 
> I tried to take a band-of-brothers style one for the first picture, of A Coy relaxing in the mist, waiting for our HL-icoptors  ;D



Good pictures!!


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## spacelord (30 Aug 2004)

Nice pictures. I'm one of those guys playing Red Rover.  before we played that, we also had a game of tag.


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## GDawg (30 Aug 2004)

Ah, my first post...

AE04 really was something else wasn't it? I was a SigOp at HICON and I tell you what, I was pretty damned busy the whole time.Stressful, yet invaluable experience for a guy straight off his 3's. For all the hard work the often forgotten advance party troops did, I hope everybody involved took home some positive memories and learned new things. 

As far as the troops left in behind in a live trace, that was pretty stupid, I was on shift at the time and needless to say,my log book was confiscated for the investigation. I hope to see someone fired or demoted over this!


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## AlphaCharlie (30 Aug 2004)

I just got back from ARCON04.... pretty big letdown... but we got to ride in Blackhawks/Griffons... it was sweet. Frickin 2RCR ruined the final defensive battle because they don't play by the rules... grrrrr  :rage:


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## CanadianSIG (30 Aug 2004)

Rules??

here is an interesting post I suggest you take a look at

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18270.0.html

perhaps you witnessed more of lesson learned scenario than you thought...


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## D-n-A (30 Aug 2004)

spacelord said:
			
		

> Nice pictures. I'm one of those guys playing Red Rover.   before we played that, we also had a game of tag.



You guys played tag also...

Seeing a bunch of infanteers playing red rover is one thing, but to know you guys play tag too.. I dunno about you westies now.


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## Highland Laddie (31 Aug 2004)

Some points / updates from someone who was working up with the TSG in HICON for this ex:

1. OPFOR - Not enough by far. There were only ten of us to cover a MEL in a 20KM x 10 KM trace, and we largely only had C-7s. The original ORBAT called for a Pl sized OPFOR, complete with support wpns. Not enough troops turned up, so OPFOR became whom ever we could scrape up from HICON. Most days it was a couple Capts, MWO / WOs, and a few BMQ privates. We also had to drive civie pattern rental vehicles (due to shortages), which cut down on the realism.... Ambushing the MPs while they stood inside their own POW cage was interesting though..... :

2. The injured LT / WO -  The LT from the RWR was evacuated to the U of A hospital in Edmonton, and had three screws placed in the ankle and leg bones, along with over 40 staples. Luckily he made the flight back to Winnipeg, and is in good spirits (I know the guy). The SI is already well under way. Kudos to WATC, as the MPs and WATC Safety were out investigating the scene within a 1/2 hour of the accident, and the boys were well looked after. For those with concerns over Command & Control and Communications for this ex (myself included), you'll be happy to hear they worked quickly in an emergency (as they should). I got back to HICON 1 hour after the accident, and the Commander, RSM, and padre were already at the base hospital with the injured.

3. The 'live' trace issue - Some of my unit's troops were involved in this. Basically, the Gurkha's went 'live' before a) someone certified that the impact area was clear; or b) someone certified the impact area was clear when it was not. The AE 04 live fire shoot ran late (the first attack was right out of er), and burned all of the fudge factor time in the MEL before the Gurhkas were to take over the range. Rest assured the investigation was already well underway before I left WATC on Saturday afternoon. As it involves two national armies (ours and the Brits), the investigation should be interesting to say the least. The 'bright spot' in this (if there is one), is that the troops were just outside of the danger trace for the MGs and mortars. They heard some 'splash' and ricochets, but everyone remained calm and professional.

If anyone else has any observations / comments on the ex, please fire away. I'm still working on the unit's PXR for the ex. Cheers!


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## spacelord (1 Sep 2004)

Combat_Cook said:
			
		

> You guys played tag also...
> 
> Seeing a bunch of infanteers playing red rover is one thing, but to know you guys play tag too.. I dunno about you westies now.



playing tag was a fun way to get some PT.  We had enough people to have a good game going.


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## GDawg (2 Sep 2004)

Yeah, someone certified the trace was clear when it was not. HICON asked, and were told all was clear, and that message was passed to range control, and thus to the British. I hope the investigation goes smoothly, they have the log books and things were neat and tidy from a signals stand point...


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## Rfn (2 Sep 2004)

I don't know much beyond hearsay about the live fire trace. I hope THAT sucker gets investigated and resolved...

But I can say that the logistic side of the ex utterly sucked. It was very disorganized from the beginning Somebody at battle group HQ and/or the composite Western Svc Bn (WSB) dropped the ball in a big way. Sometimes DPs didn't even show up, and troops went hungry when IMPs were not delivered...not that the troops had anything to heat them with, naptha was in short supply for most of the ex. And no hot rats were a problem, because it rained for most of the exercise

There were a lot of excuses flying around. One of my favorite was that the supply trucks that travelled in the exercise area needed an escort (a cougar or an infantry section in another vehicle) to get through hostile areas. The MPs wouldn't let unescorted vehicles through. So when the escort and the trucks failed to marry up, the supply guys simply turned around and when back to their comfy mod tents in their bivvy, content with letting the troops go without.   And the higher ups never intervened to get the DPs out to the troops, until the ex was half over.

The saving grace was the troops, didn't hear much complaining about the situation at all   

I think some key people on that ex needed to be fired/kicked in the ass.

There were a lot of problems. Admittedly however most of the training was good. The big problem with the training was the powers that be forgot to set aside time to zero weapons prior to the platoon live fire shoot.

Anyway, see you all at Active Edge 05!   :dontpanic:


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## Herby (2 Sep 2004)

Gruending, i dint know you posted on here ;D
awesome man
i had a awesome time on active edge as well. Our last 25 round FFE when we were firing support for you guys was awesome.
i definatley will be going on this again next year. 
the $650 pay check was pretty nice too ;D


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## D-n-A (2 Sep 2004)

Rfn, first off WSB did work hard to support the battlegroup, and we did a lot of DPs for you guys, yes there was problems, but nothings perfect. Also, if MPs did refuse to let some convoys through because we didn't have an escort(I dunno why we needed one, we could have defended ourselves, we had rifles an LMGs) and the MPs sent us back, how is that WSBs fault?  Also we didn't live in comfy mod tents, we lived in 2man tents, you guys weren't the only ones who were cold an wet also.l


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## Rfn (2 Sep 2004)

Combat Cook

It was WSB's fault in that it did not have an escort as required. It failed to marry up with one, or failed to request one, or failed to provide one using it's own troops. Thats why it's the WSB's fault. First time was bad but understandable, more than once (and there were a few times they simply did not show or were hours late) is indicative of a really bad internal problem. Bottom line, troops went without IMPs for at least one meal. This is indefensible. It was the higher up's job (either from WSB or HiCon) to get this sorted out. It can't be dismissed as "well, nothings perfect"

Also, when the DP showed, they almost never had what was requested from the previous days adrep, usually only IMPs, no naptha, bugjuice, no glowsticks, no gasoline bowser. They did one time send a can of (unrequested) ground coffee , would have tasted mighty good if we had a coffee percolator, and a generator to plug it into, and fuel to run the generator. Not an option in a dismounted Inf Coy that moved nearly every day.

But I see by your profile, Combat Cook, you are  a younger dude that probably wasn't in the command chain, and not involved in your supply coy so don't take it personally. And if you were one of the guys that cooked and sent out the hot meal we got, then kudos to you, it was very much enjoyed and appreciated.

But your remark about having to spend the ex in a crew tent is just begging for a smoking sarcastic comeback, but I'll resist the urge.


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## D-n-A (2 Sep 2004)

I know that its inexcusable for troops to go without food. Also why are you blaming WSB for not marrying up with an escort? We could have been at the meet up point, but the escort never showed. Also some of the other things, like you guys not getting everything listed on your MATDEM isn't our fault, if we don't have the items at that time, or if we goto Base to pick up those items for you guys, but the base supply either doesn't have the stuff or give it out to us, we're not to blame for that. WATC stores weren't very well prepared for this ex.

Also, I just said we didn't sleep in mod tents, either way, I'm not trying to make us look more hard or anything, its obvois that the guys on the front had it worse than we did.


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## Jarnhamar (2 Sep 2004)

Actually not allowing a convoy to go through a hostile area sounds like pretty good training.

I know it sucks that the troops don't get food and resupplied but i think that may be pretty realistic. (Although the trucks shouldnt have just took off they should figure out a way TO get the stuff to the troops)

I know an excersise is one thing but you have to train for war right? Would a convoy of vital supplies be allowed to cruise through a hostile area without a heavily armed escort?
In operations theres going to be screw ups and the suppliers need to find a way to adapt improvise and over come JUST like the forward troops need to do the same when their supplies don't show up.

Still, turning around without exausting every possibly solution is bad soldiering.


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## Rfn (3 Sep 2004)

Combat Cook..buddy I think you are having trouble picking up what I'm laying down.



> We could have been at the meet up point, but the escort never showed.



You can fire at me all the excuses you want, the fact remains you weren't there. Getting to the DP point, and working out all the details to get there are the Svc Bn's job. If the subunit CQs wasn't there to meet _you_, then that would be _their_ fault, with no excuses. When maybe someday you become an NCO, you'll know that the important thing is  getting the job done and as CSS keeping the troops supported. I don't mean this as a slag against you, I'm saying your superiors should have taken the bull by the horns, whether by talking to the battlegroup into arranging an escort or by providing an escort made up by the WSB, and got those IMPs to the troops.



> In operations theres going to be screw ups and the suppliers need to find a way to adapt improvise and over come JUST like the forward troops need to do the same when their supplies don't show up.


Your right, but this wasn't done.



> Still, turning around without exausting every possibly solution is bad soldiering.


"bad soldiering" is a poor description. how about "criminal negligence." simply throwing your arms up and saying "oh well the MPs didn't let us through" is not good enough. It's times like this that the Ops officer and CO start to earn their pay.

I realize that this was an exercise for all of us to learn from.... but the reaction by WSB or lack of it gives me reason to worry.


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## GDawg (3 Sep 2004)

I do recall overhearing some requests (from WSB,IIRC) for MP escorts less than 1 hour in advance, which is really really unrealistic, given the fact the MP escort teams were busting their asses to meet all the requests. After a couple days the MPs  got their own rep at HICON to handle escorts, as well has having their own CP. Next year I do believe we will see more effective communication between WSB and the MPs to coordinate escorts for DPs.


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## stukirkpatrick (3 Sep 2004)

Will next year's exercise focus on the same types of training, though?  The armoured guys did say that we were one of the last groups to have a chance to work with the Leopards before they are removed from service    and I think at least my brigade is focusing the year on whatever the current acronym for FIBUA is.  Does that mean that the area ex could be a giant urban operation?


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## Highland Laddie (3 Sep 2004)

Rfn said:
			
		

> I don't know much beyond hearsay about the live fire trace. I hope THAT sucker gets investigated and resolved...
> 
> But I can say that the logistic side of the ex utterly sucked. It was very disorganized from the beginning Somebody at battle group HQ and/or the composite Western Svc Bn (WSB) dropped the ball in a big way. Sometimes DPs didn't even show up, and troops went hungry when IMPs were not delivered...not that the troops had anything to heat them with, naptha was in short supply for most of the ex. And no hot rats were a problem, because it rained for most of the exercise
> 
> ...



RFN, you do have some very legitimate complaints from the Service and Support perspective. Very early in the ex problems were identified in the WSB ops. With all due respect to Combat Cook, the individual troops from WSB appeared to be performing their jobs. I believe that the problems were at a higher leadership level within WSB. This was identified early in the ex, and discussed with the leadership elms of WSB. Needless to say by about the end of the day Tuesday the discussions between HICON and WSB on this issue began to become predominately 'one-way conversations' if you get my drift      Things did improve somewhat after that, but were still lacking to say the least. Service & Support issues are a major part of the overall Ex AE 04 PXR.

For those who state that the Inf should adapt and overcome if they can't get a meal delivered to them, I do have a point with this. Should R23/31 types, or any combat arms troop be able to function without a meal, or a day's worth of meals - YES. Should they have to go through over 24hrs without rats during a peace time ex, as one element did on Ex AE 04 - generally NO. This was a WSB error, plain and simple. It doesn't take a genius figure out what are the two types of items you should through in the truck for Inf types - IMPs and ammo. We can live without everything else if required for durations. As for coordination with the MPs for escorts - a) what were the orders given - all convoys require prior arranged escort; and b) can you say 'ananticipation future tasks / constraints at all levels'?? The WSB leadership elm dropped the ball here, plain and simple. Poor planning can, and often does, lead to piss poor results.

As for the MPs, yes they were overtasked, but they were very responsive to short turn around requests. Case in point - a call came to HICON in the middle of the night indicating that a Padre's services were required for a troop deployed forward in one of the inf coys. When WSB was contacted by HICON for a vehicle / driver, the responses were 1) 'all we have is an ILTIS' (err, its a Padre, not 150,000 rounds of 5.56mm ball !); and my favourite 2) 'the driver is asleep'   :rage: . Well, after a few choice words were stated (not fit to repeat here!), the MPs were contacted. Within 10 minutes the MPs were on the road, and delivered the Padre to his tasking (the troop and family was ok by the way).

As for escorts for convoys, training value, and their need - see US experiences in Iraq at the moment. Militants are waiting for the lightly escorted or non-escorted convoys, and passing on the 'cocombatms' convoys. The ex was based on an ascasymmetricttlefield scenario, like Iraq. Thus, the usefullness and the training value of escorted convoys was high. The MPs were instructed that the only vehicles allowed beyond their checkpoints without escort were: a) combat arms vehicles (ie LAVs, troop convoys); Ex Obs / Controller vehicles, and non-Ex AE 04 vehicles (ie the Brits). Just as the Exercise Commander - he was held up at a MP checkpoint for 30 minutes, and praised the troop for following his orders and not allowing a Col to 'talk' his way though the check point.   That said, I am aware of at least one enterprising MLVW driver who spent four hours 'cloverleafing' on black tracks trying to get around the MP check point on the MSR to get food to the troops   

All the points above being said, I am aware that all of these issues are being taken seriously in terms of the planning on the next ex. As for the live fire trace incident - shot, over! - wait for it. Some one is going to held responsible for that incident.

Rapid rate, fire!


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## Brad Sallows (3 Sep 2004)

This may not be pertinent to the particular situation, so just take these as miscellaneous comments to ponder.

There is a popular saying: "Your lack of foresight/planning is not my emergency."  Bullsh*t.

If I am staff/CSS it _is always_ my emergency.  There is no rule stating that the only problems I must resolve are those of my own making.  The aim is always to resolve the problem at hand to best support the pointy end.  This is the essence of a favourable "coulda/shoulda" hindsight judgement.  If I think a lesson must be taught, I should play "pokey-chest" with the responsible authority later.  Innocent third parties (ie. the troops) are not part of "the lesson".  We do not punish collectively for the mistakes of individuals.

Another variation: "A stupid man doing what he knows is wrong will always claim it was his duty."


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## Jarnhamar (3 Sep 2004)

> I realize that this was an exercise for all of us to learn from



Agreed. However, this isn't our (militia) first crack an an exercise like this. We've been doing them every year for how long? It's unfortunate that often it seems like we keep making the same mistakes. I think it serves to prove how important these (and other large exercises) are. We have to keep at it to keep ourselves proficient.   One reason i've heard an officer say was the cause of many of the problems is that ofteh each year theres a different regiment running the ex. One year my regiment may be running it and next year when yours does, points were not properly passed on so you end up making the same mistakes. With a new CO running it each year with new staff everyone ends up doing things differently and even the lessons learned from last year may not apply.




> For those who state that the Inf should adapt and overcome if they can't get a meal delivered to them, I do have a point with this. Should R23/31 types, or any combat arms troop be able to function without a meal, or a day's worth of meals - YES. Should they have to go through over 24hrs without rats during a peace time ex, as one element did on Ex AE 04 - generally NO.



Agreed again. combat units, especially infantry, should be able to go a day or two without food and while they may not be able to launch a full scale beach invasion (some may agrue they should)   they shouldn't shut right down. Watching soldiers shut down after missing one meal is garbage. This is when soldiers should know how to forrage (sp?) and use survival skills. Yes including hunting small game.   If i'm in any sort of leadership capacity (the mighty corporal heh) i make my guys bring extra food. I've seen this hapen far too often. A few packs of cup a soup, those chinese noodles, beef jerky and granola bars can go a very long way.

A friend introduced me to the concept of what he called "A selfish troop"   (There may be a more appropiate word for it)
This is a soldier who will take care of himself. he will make sure he has enough food and he will make sure he has enough water. While it's a part of the chain of command he won't just always expect food and water to be there on time every time so he provides for himself. I as a leader will know pte so and so WILL have food and water on him and if not he will do something about it. I'll provide for him but i know he can and will look out for himself as well. Out in the middle of the woods i know i wont turn to him, ask him where his supper is and he will say "i never got one this morning". I try to instill that on anyone i work with.



> As for escorts for convoys, training value, and their need - see US experiences in Iraq at the moment. Militants are waiting for the lightly escorted or non-escorted convoys, and passing on the 'cocombatms' convoys.



thats exactly what i was getting at. Letting an unarmed convoy go through the reserve MP check point will get food to the troops and make em happy but in a war it will get them all killed.


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## Matt_Fisher (3 Sep 2004)

No 3 IMPs per day?  No hot rats?  No naptha for the stove?..It's raining and I'm cold and hungry...I want to go home..Waaaaaaah!   :crybaby:

One of the things always impressed into me during Marine boot camp was the starvation factor.  We rarely got enough to eat during scheduled meals and if we did, our Drill Instructors made certain that if we came back to the barracks with full bellies, we'd end up having a puke party by doing all kinds of indoor PT until we'd emptied our guts of all that "nasty fat happiness".  That way by the time we got to the Crucible going for 3 days on 2 MREs and covering some 50 miles in marches and patrols you were good to go.  I went to Parris Island weighing 204 lbs and left at 164lbs.  This is pretty average for most Marine Corps recruits.  This type of training regimen continues on in other courses such as the SERE course at Camp Pendleton and the Mountain Warfare Survival at Bridgeport CA.

While this system of "fat camp" may seem harsh and probably violates every SHARP rule in the book, it did have its place when I went to war.  When we did our intial advance into Iraq 1st MEF went on a program known as "Log Light" or Logistics Light to reduce the resupply trains to mission essential stuff such as ammo and fuel so that the advance up north wouldn't be hampered by lengthy resupply columns trying to keep up.  We went down to a resupply program of getting 2 MREs per Marine per day and 10 gallons of water per LAV-25 to be shared between the 7 Marines aboard.  Going to 2 MREs per day wasn't that bad, but trying to make 1.1 gallon of water last all day while you're in MOPP 3 and the temperature is between 90-110 degrees?  That's a bit more difficult.

As Ghost pointed out, hardening up and becoming more self-sufficient should be a goal of any good field troop.

Some things that can help out in future situations where your Service Support can't bring you the necessities would be to:

Get a multi-fuel stove other than the naptha-only Colemans.  MSR, Primus and Optimus/Brunton all make good lightweight multi-fuel stoves capable of running on diesel or JP-8.  No need to rely on a spotty Naptha supply.

For extra chow, always pack enough extra to last 24 hours without a resupply.  3 PowerBars and an IMP/MRE main meal will go a long way in terms of providing daily nutrition and not take up much room in your ruck/webbing/E&E kit.

If your water resupply goes to hell, you can sterilize local water (ie. Battle River) using either purification tabs or a commercial water filter.  MSR makes the MIOX purification system which can treat large quantities in relative short periods of time.  You should at least carry a small quantity of purification tablets in your E&E kit.


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## Bartok5 (4 Sep 2004)

Well said, Matt!

I didn't want to "launch" on the "food whiners", as I am still relatively new here.  But your post hit the nail squarely on the head.  I did 6 months of MREs, IMPs and T-Rats a couple of years ago, and yes it sucked - but we all survived just fine.  

Anyone who tells me that they are "entitled" to fresh rats (or a BBQ, or a Pizza!!) after 8 days in the field is not going to get a whole lot of sympathy.  In fact, they are going to get.....NONE!

For the short-duration FTX "Chow Hounds", all I can say is "get a grip on what is important".  If you are whining about fresh rations, you have missed the boat....big-time.  Poor Princess probably didn't get a shower every day either.  Boo Frigging Hoo.


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## Spr.Earl (4 Sep 2004)

Matt do you guys still say good night too Chesty?
I read his bio.
A soldiers soldier


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## Matt_Fisher (4 Sep 2004)

"Goodnight Chesty, Wherever you are..." Is still part of the nightly bedtime stories and being tucked in by the DI's.

Despite being made in the late 80's and depicting Marine Boot Camp during the 60's, Full Metal Jacket is still a relatively accurate portrayal of recruit training to this day, albeit with slightly less outward physical abuse.


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## pegged (4 Sep 2004)

I enjoyed Active Edge a lot. I finished my SQ in July and I'm sure that there aren't many opportunities to work with LAV's and Leo's. I also think it was good to do platoon and company sized attacks; I only did one platoon attack on my SQ. Now that I've slept in a mod tent, I can say I prefer hoochies over mod tents, even if it IS raining. I would have liked to have done some patrols, but our platoon never did any (A Coy. 2 Platoon). All the negatives have already been mentioned in this thread, so I wont start with those. I'll post a few pictures soon.


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## Eowyn (4 Sep 2004)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Agreed. However, this isn't our (militia) first crack an an exercise like this. We've been doing them every year for how long? It's unfortunate that often it seems like we keep making the same mistakes. I think it serves to prove how important these (and other large exercises) are. We have to keep at it to keep ourselves proficient..



Ghost, maybe in your Area this type of concentration is done annually.  This is the first week long concentration done in Western Area in about 10 years.  So it is a big learning experience for all involved.


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## Michael Dorosh (4 Sep 2004)

Pte(R).OShea said:
			
		

> I enjoyed Active Edge a lot. I finished my SQ in July and I'm sure that there aren't many opportunities to work with LAV's and Leo's. I also think it was good to do platoon and company sized attacks; I only did one platoon attack on my SQ. Now that I've slept in a mod tent, I can say I prefer hoochies over mod tents, even if it IS raining. I would have liked to have done some patrols, but our platoon never did any (A Coy. 2 Platoon). All the negatives have already been mentioned in this thread, so I wont start with those. I'll post a few pictures soon.



If you have photos showing Calgary Highlanders at Active Edge, I would love to include them on the regimental website as well.  If you're interested, email me at madorosh@shaw.ca


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## beach_bum (5 Sep 2004)

Eowyn said:
			
		

> Ghost, maybe in your Area this type of concentration is done annually.   This is the first week long concentration done in Western Area in about 10 years.   So it is a big learning experience for all involved.



Not quite 10 years.  The last Western Challenge was held in Dundurn SK in '96.  Not really all that long ago, and not nearly long enough for everyone to have forgotten how to run an Ex like that.  ;-)


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## Jarnhamar (5 Sep 2004)

I stand corrected, thank you.


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## Rfn (5 Sep 2004)

Shows how quick the corporate knowledge required to run these things gets forgotten though.

Lots of luck to 39 Bde, who's running it next year.


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## Simpleton (6 Sep 2004)

beach_bum said:
			
		

> Not quite 10 years.  The last Western Challenge was held in Dundurn SK in '96.  Not really all that long ago, and not nearly long enough for everyone to have forgotten how to run an Ex like that.  ;-)



Western Challenge in 96? Did it include all the CBGs in LFWA? What was the focus? Was it a reserve designed and run ex?

 ???


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## beach_bum (6 Sep 2004)

Yes, it did include all of the brigades in LFWA.  Instead of Wainwright (where is had been held before) it was in Dundurn.  If I remember correctly, the focus was defensive.


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## tomhynes (13 Sep 2004)

I also worked as a storesman for WSB during AE04, except Im a Supp Tech and I worked directly with 1 SVC BN and took part in most of the DP's and RP's. Many times it was a gong-show, to say the least. Me being a Pte didnt help much, but knowing that I could probably do a better job than most the brass there was concirning to me. First of all, WSB allocated ONE section of mod tentage for both Supply and Transport. That alone caused way too many problems to even start to list. There was alot of sitting around, waiting for orders when we all knew that you Combat Arms guys were out there suffering, especially when it wouldnt stop raining. Trust me if I had any kind of power Id at least attempt to change the system(fat chance of that happening).

The whole escort fiasco wasnt the main reason for the logistics being all messed up. Yes it proved to be a problem a few of the times, but it was simply a lack of supplies that made our taskings impossible. We'd go into camp to pickup IMP's and there would be none, thats over an hour of driving for nothing. The fuel supplies were the worst, we at WSB barely had enough naptha to get through the Ex. 

After reading over this thread, there seems to be some bitterness between the Combat Arms and the CSS guys. Well let me just say this. I worked hand in hand with Reg Force truckers who do this 24 hours a day as a career. It was embarassing to hear them talk about how its really done in the "real" army. AE04 was a vacation to them, and they didnt even enjoy it. My point here is that we reservists can squabble all we want over whos better, but in the end we come nowhere near the Reg force guys. If you want to be all hardcore infantry, join the Regs. If you want to be all hardcore cook or supply, join the Regs. Reservists making fun of reservists is a joke in itself. Come on guys, lets grow up.


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## pbi (13 Sep 2004)

> Not quite 10 years.  The last Western Challenge was held in Dundurn SK in '96.  Not really all that long ago, and not nearly long enough for everyone to have forgotten how to run an Ex like that.  ;-)



Actually, it was eight years ago, which means that almost nobody who was in planning or command positions for that exercise would likely still be there. All Regular Army staff would be long gone, most Reservists would have moved upwards, and the only consistency might be some class B desk officers/NCOs. As well, this year's exercise was put together largely by the staff of a single CBG: unless any of them were involved directly in the last one, I doubt the experiences of other staffs would  do them much good. IMHO we tend not to learn from PXRs and AARs very well. "Lessons Learned" should be renamed "Lessons Written Down and Shoved in A Drawer".

Cheers.


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## GDawg (14 Sep 2004)

TomHynes said:
			
		

> After reading over this thread, there seems to be some bitterness between the Combat Arms and the CSS guys. Well let me just say this. I worked hand in hand with Reg Force truckers who do this 24 hours a day as a career. It was embarassing to hear them talk about how its really done in the "real" army. AE04 was a vacation to them, and they didnt even enjoy it. My point here is that we reservists can squabble all we want over whos better, but in the end we come nowhere near the Reg force guys. If you want to be all hardcore infantry, join the Regs. If you want to be all hardcore cook or supply, join the Regs. Reservists making fun of reservists is a joke in itself. Come on guys, lets grow up.



You are on the right track but...

Fuck hardcore!

 Its about doing the job right. I went into Active edge to learn. I learned a bit, but I didn't notice it until later. What I did see on the ground was a trade vs. trade, reg. vs. res. grudge match. I hate to say it but we should have gone into this with a brotherly approach, where the reserves are the little brother and the regs are the big brother and we are there to learn and they are there to tell us how to do the job like its not just a weekend thing.  I really haven't been around long in the scheme of things but I think the rift between the reserves and the regular force is growing. Make no mistake about it, we need each other to exist. The reserves get alot of senior people who leave the regular force and the regular force gets the more militarily motivated reservists on a temporary or permanent basis. We need to keep this in mind...


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## Infanteer (14 Sep 2004)

So much for raising the bar....

PS:  Food is a crutch.


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## Highland Laddie (14 Sep 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> Actually, it was eight years ago, which means that almost nobody who was in planning or command positions for that exercise would likely still be there. All Regular Army staff would be long gone, most Reservists would have moved upwards, and the only consistency might be some class B desk officers/NCOs. As well, this year's exercise was put together largely by the staff of a single CBG: unless any of them were involved directly in the last one, I doubt the experiences of other staffs would   do them much good. IMHO we tend not to learn from PXRs and AARs very well. "Lessons Learned" should be renamed "Lessons Written Down and Shoved in A Drawer".
> 
> Cheers.



PBI - I concur with you Sir. I was in HICON for the ex, and I could share some rather interesting events with you, if your interested.


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## pbi (14 Sep 2004)

Fire away: this means or PM. Cheers.


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## Simpleton (15 Sep 2004)

Highland Laddie said:
			
		

> PBI - I concur with you Sir. I was in HICON for the ex, and I could share some rather interesting events with you, if your interested.



I think we would all be interested.


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