# The Cdn. Military Police - Time - Date - Place - I Was - I Saw - I Did



## FastEddy (27 Jun 2004)

This is a Area where Questions pertaining to Procedures, Training, Duties, Standards & Requirements and General Information Both Military & Civilian can be answered and discused.


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## MP 811 (1 Jul 2004)

Keep in mind some of our precedures should not be discussed in an open forum.


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## FastEddy (1 Jul 2004)

MP 811 said:
			
		

> Keep in mind some of our precedures should not be discussed in an open forum.




10-4 on that MP 811


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## FastEddy (3 Jul 2004)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> MP 811 said:
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Well heres a interesting senario for a solution or discussion.

Its in three parts  1=Confrontation  2=Solution  3=Conclusion

Two young MP L/Cpls are returning to Canada after their tour of Duty in Europe in a small mixed draft of Corps and Services on a Civilian Cruise Ship. One L/Cpl is berthed in with two RCE Sgts, the other with two Infantry Pte.s.
Halfway through the voyage on returning to his cabin late one night and finding his Infantry Bunkmates (apparently) asleep.
Two quite large (and drunken) Infantry Pte.s brust into his cabin and stated that they are going to kick the living crap out of him because of his past official dealings with a loveable member of their Regiment.
The two sleeping Infantry Pte.s (of the same Regt. now feinting sleep).
The two antagonists now started poking and pushing the MP L/Cpl to the rear of the cabin and blocking his path to the door.

HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE OR GET OUT OF THIS SITUATION.


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## Michael Dorosh (3 Jul 2004)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> FastEddy said:
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I have no idea which manual you cribbed that out of but be advised, we no longer have Lance Corporals in the Canadian Army, nor do we have Corps and Services (we do have the RCIC and RCAC but all the others are now called Branches), and the RCE was renamed during Unification to become Canadian Military Engineers.


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## NavyGrunt (3 Jul 2004)

On top of that-

That has to be some of the worst english I've ever had the misfortune of reading in my life. I sure hope your notebook , and court docs are more cohesive and intelligible.

 ;D


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## Infanteer (3 Jul 2004)

It's always the Infantry's fault, eh?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (3 Jul 2004)

Well the Artillery is much too dignified to be in a drunken brawl and the Armoured guys are too fat to scrap. ;D 
So that leaves it up to..oowwww  stop it   @#$%  get off me, Franko... Yea, "Slim" my *&*..... :blotto:


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## FastEddy (3 Jul 2004)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> It's always the Infantry's fault, eh?



My appologies to the Infantry and Infanteer (no inference intended), but the the persons involved were all from the same Infantry Regt.
As to the use of Ranks, Corps etc., the incident took place in 1957 and the Provost Corps was also refered to as the MP or i.e the "MP.s are coming".
For our Expert on the use of the English language, please submit the same incident and facts in the correct English. I'm sure we all would like to see how its done.


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## NavyGrunt (3 Jul 2004)

A military policeman was returning home from europe with some other soldiers from a tour of duty in Europe. During the cruise some intoxicated infanteers picked a fight with the policeman because of past dealings with some members of their regiment. 
During the altercation the policeman was pushed and poked to the back of the room and had his exit blocked.

As for your facts "Eddie" I have a hard time believing a policeman of "10 years" would include so much extraneous information and use possibly the worst possible wording for a 3 sentence incident. Im not an english expert but I know you started by explaing an incident and then finished with a question. Which makes for an awkward read. On top of that you state that the "incident" is in 3 parts.....but spell it out in one paragraph....and you don't touch on the "solution or conclusion".

I wont get into the fact that 5 of the characters in your "incident" have no part. The 2 Sgt's do nothing, the other military policeman does nothing, and the other 2 Pte's pretend to sleep. Why even mention them?

I was kidding around but if you want measure wangs we can get into it Im sure.


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## MP 811 (3 Jul 2004)

LOL...........Eddy, you should have picked something easy..........................how's this;

One day, at band camp.............................carry on!


LOL


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## ZipperHead (3 Jul 2004)

Here's how a scenario involving the Artillery, in time of war, would go: 2 Bombardiers were lost, but making good time, on their way to the front lines. From their gun lines (which they were about to abandon), on the way to the FEBA, they had to go past the CANEX...... 

Just kidding, all you arty guys. I figured if the infantry and armour guys always get ribbed, why not the arty. BTW, doesn't UBIQUE *really* mean "All over the place".

Al :tank:


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## FastEddy (4 Jul 2004)

RopeTech said:
			
		

> A military policeman was returning home from europe with some other soldiers from a tour of duty in Europe. During the cruise some intoxicated infanteers picked a fight with the policeman because of past dealings with some members of their regiment.
> During the altercation the policeman was pushed and poked to the back of the room and had his exit blocked.
> 
> Well done RopeTech, very concise.
> ...


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## NavyGrunt (4 Jul 2004)

By the way I want to publically appologize to Eddie. I was a dink in that last post. 

I dont want people to start ripping apart my posts. So I should have the same consideration for others.

 :blotto:


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## FastEddy (5 Jul 2004)

Many Thanks and Hats Off for RopeTech.

As previously mentioned, "This incident could have been prevented".

How and Why ????????? any takers, the clues are all there.


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## casing (6 Jul 2004)

Could have been avoided by berthing the two MP L/Cpls together, I guess.   Apart from that, perhaps the target of the poking and shoving could attempt to assert his rank.  Since their backs are to the cabin door, perhaps try to decoy them by shouting room, as if an officer entered.  Ok, those are some weak guesses.   I really don't know, but I'd like to know the answer after some others make attempts at answering.


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## stukirkpatrick (6 Jul 2004)

I was thinking the previous - but if they can't be paired up, another room option would be to put a Sgt, L/Cpl and Pte in each room, breaking up the unit 'loyalties', and having a senior NCO present who (should) be more likely to help/convince the privates to stop.


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## Infanteer (6 Jul 2004)

I would take the two drunk privates down, haul them down to their platoon NCO, and let him give them shit jobs for the next month for being drunken fools.


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## FastEddy (7 Jul 2004)

A Cruise Ship, 10 Days of 6 Bars and Lounges, Cheap Drinks, Duty Free's, No Duty or Routines except Oderely Offr. & Sgt. and two Fire Pickets.(in bed by 23.59 hrs. if they wanted to).

Sounds like a Dream come true, what in the world could go wrong.

Bang on KIRKPATRICK & CASING a 100%., The Berthing arrangements. The RTO must have been very busy  (or asleep at the wheel) to have split up the two Provost L/Cpls. in the first place.  Then at least Bunked them in with  NCOs.

The occupants of a Cabin each had a personal key. There's no point in wondering how the two Drunks were able to gain entry after the Provost had returned for the evening. Thus the presumed & feinting
sleep of the two Pte.s.

Yes INFANTEER, that would have been a good and logical solution and ending to the incident.

Now how in the world did the Provost escape his assailants or did he ???.


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## Michael Dorosh (7 Jul 2004)

It brings to mind the greeting we got at CFSAL a couple summers back;

"Welcome to Borden - this is the rape capital of Canada, ladies, no joking.  Here is your rape whistle, your phone number for the Rape Crisis Hotline,and your copy of the instructional video "What To Do If I Am Getting Raped." 

Naturally the MP should pull out his baton, blow on his whistle as loud as he can, attempt to beat a path through the two infantrymen who are pushing him, and yell FIRE FIRE FIRE as loud as he can into the passageway.  If the two grunts in the cabin wake up, politely inform them that he is about to be sexually assaulted and determine where their sympathies lie.  Lay.  Whatever.


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## FastEddy (9 Jul 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> It brings to mind the greeting we got at CFSAL a couple summers back;
> 
> "Welcome to Borden -
> 
> ...


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## FastEddy (10 Jul 2004)

Now how in the world did the Provost escape his assailants or did he ???.


Welcome again, Kirkpatrick and Casing.

In your last quotes you suggested a number of possible actions which were quite on the mark, well thought!.

However no matter what amount of reasoning, logic or threatening was having any effect on the two assailants.

Example:     If they carried out their intent, they would   be eventually charged and receive at least 30 days in a "PROVOST" Detention Barracks (and considering the nature of their offense) they would be most welcome guests. That thought alone should have sobered any-body up.

Example:   In short, Forgive, Forget and go Home & Sleep it Off.

Example:   He ordered the two Feinting Sleep Pte.s to awaken   and fall in as Escorts as he was placing the principle assailant under Closed Arrest. This seemed to cause a great deal of snickers and the covers to be drawn over their heads.

The Provost then hit on the idea to appeal to their Bravado and Masculinity in that, "You #*&#^C@ are pretty brave when theres two   or maybe four of you against one. But if there were two of us we would have your ass in the can so fast it would make your head spin and maybe a few broken heads in the bargain.

Well that sure did it. Go get your %^#@*+# pal we'll be right here waiting.

You'll never imagined what happen next ?? any guesses? (part 3 next)


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## stukirkpatrick (10 Jul 2004)

I'd say that the other L/Cpl came... with the two RCE Sgts as well.   

They could invite two RCR sgts to even up the balance, but the Ptes would (er, should) know the ultimate danger of involving their own superiors.

My dollar minus 98 cents.


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## casing (10 Jul 2004)

I'm guessing that he did go get the other L/Cpl, returned and proceeded to give the two brutes a thrashing with the aid of their clubs.  No Sgts.  Just lesson teaching time.


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## FastEddy (12 Jul 2004)

Casing said:
			
		

> I'm guessing that he did go get the other L/Cpl, returned and proceeded to give the two brutes a thrashing with the aid of their clubs.   No Sgts.   Just lesson teaching time.



Well both you Chaps are in the Ball Park, but remember what you would like to do useally isn't what you should or can do.

As I've previously mentioned, I'm not up to date on the AF.s (in this case MP Equipment), but from 1950 to 1960. I never saw or was issued with a Night Stick (God knows they sure would have come in handy some times). All we had on Town or Camp Patrol was our White Web and the QR&R.s
Our personal Weapon was the 9mm Stengun. (only issued on maneuvers or in combat Areas). Our side arm was the 9mm Browning Pistol (only issued for High Security Escorts,Guard Duty,Cermonial or in combat Areas).
Maybe MP811 could tell us when all that changed.

Well the other Provost L/Cpl was not at home that night (remember it was a Cruise Ship) and the two RCE Sgt.s were not informed of the events.

The Draft Offr.i/c (a Lieutenant) ,OO (a WOII) & O/Sgt were all awoken and informed of the events and that he wished an Escort Party to place the Drunken Soldiers under Closed Arrest and confine them in the Ships Brig. That Offense Reports would be submitted to substantiate charges.

Well, What do think should have happened next ? or take a guess at what was the outcome.


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## Scratch_043 (12 Jul 2004)

... the two privates realized that they were deep into the $hit, and promptly apologized and dusted off the provost?? (just like in the cartoons)

BTW, I'm being sarcastic


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## casing (13 Jul 2004)

I think that the officer and NCOs were something royally pissed at being woken up for such a cockeyed reason and would have told the Provost to grow some brass ones.   Why would all three need to be woken up for this?   Why not just one of them?

However, since it's regulations and it was a Provost that wants the two arrested, I imagine that they provided the escort.


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## FastEddy (14 Jul 2004)

Casing said:
			
		

> I think that the officer and NCOs were something royally pissed at being woken up for such a cockeyed reason and would have told the Provost to grow some brass ones.   Why would all three need to be woken up for this?   Why not just one of them.
> 
> I can assure you that the MP & Law Enforcement Officers have all the Brass you can imagine and then some, considering they walk in harmsway every minute on and apparently off Duty.
> 
> ...


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## casing (14 Jul 2004)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> I can assure you that the MP & Law Enforcement Officers have all the Brass you can imagine and then some, considering they walk in harmsway every minute on and apparently off Duty.



Don't doubt that!   I'm a little confused though (some of the acronyms are unclear to me), the officer and NCOs that were woken up weren't members of the Provost Corps (correct term?), were they?   That's why I think the LT would have told the Provost to grow some brass ones.   Too bad the other Provost was out, the two of them could have gotten together and had a good rough up with the two Pvts behind closed doors.

I'm not at all surprised that the incident was shrugged off by the LT.   The resulting treatment of the Provost is unfortunate.   It's that sort of thing that could turn the Provost bitter for any future incidents.   This whole thing sounds like one of those school yard bullying incidents. Also, I think that the way the incident was handled by the LT just made things worse and served as encouragement to the two Pvts for future traipses.


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## FastEddy (14 Jul 2004)

Well Done Casing.

I've omitted the Units or Corps of other characters in this incident as not to apply a possible inference as the INFANTEER   correctly pointed out.

The two L/Cpl.s were the only two "Canadian Provost Corps" members on the Draft.

You've hit the mark on every point & ramification except, your insistance of Brass Ones and that the Provost should have engaged in a free-for-all as a solution. If they had, you and the public might put a whole different spin on this incident.


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## canadianblue (19 Dec 2004)

I have a question about the Military Police, I'm 17 years old, and am in my last year of high school. I am applying to the Grant Macewan Police Studies program, as well as the University of Regina Police Studies program. I am going to go and see a recruiter as soon as Christmas break is over and try to get as much information as possible. Well I guess I've got a few questions

What is the training like at St Jean for MP's, basically are their any different arrangement for MP's, is the training in any way, shape or form different?

What type of physical fitness training is done at Borden, and more specifically what exercises preformed?

Is their a probationary period for new Military Police Corporals?

If possible can a Military Police Corporal stay in Canada for most of their service?

What seperate specialized units are their within the Military Police?

Is their any possible way to bypass the 10 week course at St Jean, by perhaps joining a regular infantry or MP reserve force during two to three years of college?

Finally, currently I am doing 4-5 sets of 35 pushups, and 4-5 sets of 40 situps [done with feet held down, and arms crossed across chest] as well as running 4-7 miles three times a week, is this adequate physcial fitness preparation for a career within the military police?

Thanks for the help and responses.


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## garb811 (20 Dec 2004)

> What is the training like at St Jean for MP's, basically are their any different arrangement for MP's, is the training in any way, shape or form different?


No. The course is the same for all trades, you will have a variety of different trades in your Pl, not just MP.



> What type of physical fitness training is done at Borden, and more specifically what exercises preformed?



It varies.   Could be a morning run, could be circuit training, could be handball...   You will do a specific series of classes which teach you arrest and restraint techniques which will be physical in nature but are over and above PT.



> Is their a probationary period for new Military Police Corporals?



No probationary period, there is however a "provisional emplioyment period" which lasts one year.



> If possible can a Military Police Corporal stay in Canada for most of their service?



Not sure what you mean by this but...sure, I know people who haven't gone on tour, however expect to do so as MP go on all Missions which are more than a handful of pers.



> What seperate specialized units are their within the Military Police?



Specialized employment includes other positions at the Guardhouse such as Security Survery (Physical and IS), Criminal Investigations, Court Liaison, Training NCO, Security Investigations etc.   Outside the Guardhouse there is the National Investigative Service (NIS), National Counter-Intelligence Unit (NCIU), Military Security Guard Unit (MSGU), Custodian at the Canadian Forces Service Prison and Detention Barracks, VIP Aircraft Security,   Mission Specific Aircraft Security, Close Protection Team is just standing up, Criminal Intelligence, field employment with the Army (MP Pl, Sheriff at a unit), secondments to other Police Agencies, Regular Force Cadre with the Militia MP Coys...



> Is their any possible way to bypass the 10 week course at St Jean, by perhaps joining a regular infantry or MP reserve force during two to three years of college?



Anything is possible but...   The only MP I know who have bypassed recruit training are those who re-enrolled.   Your recruiter will be able to tell you the current policy but 3 years down the road, who knows?



> Finally, currently I am doing 4-5 sets of 35 pushups, and 4-5 sets of 40 situps [done with feet held down, and arms crossed across chest] as well as running 4-7 miles three times a week, is this adequate physcial fitness preparation for a career within the military police?



You should consider adding chin-ups (over and under hand), plus exercises for your back and legs and a weight programme as well, if possible.


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