# Female student auctioning off virginity to pay for grad school sparks debate



## CougarKing (11 Sep 2008)

This article definitely speaks for itself. ;D 



> http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/09/11/08/student-auctions-virginity-sparks-online-debate
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Reuters | 09/11/2008 1:12 PM
> ...


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## Celticgirl (11 Sep 2008)

Whether it's $100 or $1 Million, she'll still be a prostitute. It's her life, her body, and her reputation, and therefore her choice. Personally, I prefer to earn money with my clothes on, but that's just me.  :


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

IIRC, didn't Geisha sell off thier virginity?  And it was considered and honour to "deflower" them by the men.  Mind you, the ancient Japanese treated women like chatel {sp.}
Then again, I see this young women and wonder: she's a 22 year old in university and still a virgin? !!  
And her sister works in a brothel to pay off student loans, says something towards the high price of education.
Disjointed, I know.
My $0.02


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## Strike (11 Sep 2008)

> The woman, who has earned a bachelor degree in women's studies and now wants to start a master's degree in marriage and family therapy, is hoping the bidding will hit $1 million.



I wonder what school will accept her into their masters program in this study after this stunt.


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## HItorMiss (11 Sep 2008)

Ironic that she studied women's studies traditionaly the haven of rabid feminist  LMAO.....

I don't see a problem with it regardless, but then again I don't see a problem with prostitution either so long as it is monitored medically. A profession as old as soldiering and lets be honest how many soldiers do we now who may or may not have used the services of a prostitute (Thailand comes to mind).


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## HItorMiss (11 Sep 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> I wonder what school will accept her into their masters program in this study after this stunt.



Well seeing as she is using an Alias and you don't have to submit a pcture with your application for study of a masters,it's very likely she wont have any issues.


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

Maybe she's making a social statement about the high costs and "price" of post secondary education??
Maybe she's making a social-sexual statement about the meaninglessness of abstination {sp.} from sexual intercourse until you're married??
Maybe she's making a sexual statement about the power of women  and "owning it" and can and will decide when to loose it or give it away??
Why not!? There are women in the sex trades only to pay off student loans or making thier way thru school.  Grey's Anatomy comes to mind where Katherine Heigl's charactor stripes off in the locker room and claims to those present that she does not owe a dime for her med school and this...her body..paid for it.


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## Strike (11 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Well seeing as she is using an Alias and you don't have to submit a pcture with your application for study of a masters,it's very likely she wont have any issues.



...until she goes in for her interview.  With her sister working at a brothel and her going to the same one, one can assume she's from the area, which means she probably goes to school in the same area.  No doubt she is getting recognized on the streets right now from all the media publicity.


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## HItorMiss (11 Sep 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> ...until she goes in for her interview.  With her sister working at a brothel and her going to the same one, one can assume she's from the area, which means she probably goes to school in the same area.  No doubt she is getting recognized on the streets right now from all the media publicity.




Perhaps but seeing as what she is doing is Ilegal it is conciveable she simply is doing it in Nevada as it is legal there...same with her sister.


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## armyvern (11 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Ironic that she studied women's studies traditionaly the haven of rabib feminist  LMAO.....



I don't find it so ironic... the rabid feminist would argue that it's her body and her right to do with it whatever she wishes.

It is the "traditionalist" vice the feminist who would have issues with her endeavour.

Proper choice of States chosen by her -- prostitution is legal there; ergo, she technicaly and legally is doing nothing wrong.


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## Strike (11 Sep 2008)

Okay, so let's say she's not from Nevada.  There's still a huge amount of press involved in this and you can bet that her former school knows about this and will be contacted by her future school for a reference.  I doubt she will be able to go around without being discovered.


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## armyvern (11 Sep 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Okay, so let's say she's not from Nevada.  There's still a huge amount of press involved in this and you can bet that her former school knows about this and will be contacted by her future school for a reference.  I doubt she will be able to go around without being discovered.



Being that "Women's Studies" programs tend to focus around "poor, opressed women held down in life by men" ... I'm thinking that her new "school" won't have any issues ... rather that they and she see this as some sort of opportunity for masters work in an area where not many females dare to tread ... and that the follow-up for "doctoral work" can't be far off in the distance. 

It's seldom that masters candidates or doctoral candidites in Women's Studies actually have "hands-on" experience in the area of prostitution. Study and research "of prostitutes" is one thing, but "experience/living as one" is quite another and is a rareity.

I recall an earlier case whereby a masters student in the US who was reasearching "Prostitution" was actually "living as a callgirl" in order to effect the greatest reasearch opportunity. She wound up being murdered while out on a call with some asshat. They discovered that the research she had been handing in was actually based upon her own actual ongoing experiences as a call girl during the investigation into her murder. Talk about shocked parents and staff.


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## armchair_throwaway (11 Sep 2008)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Maybe she's making a social statement about the high costs and "price" of post secondary education??
> Maybe she's making a social-sexual statement about the meaninglessness of abstination {sp.} from sexual intercourse until you're married??
> Maybe she's making a sexual statement about the power of women  and "owning it" and can and will decide when to loose it or give it away??
> Why not!? There are women in the sex trades only to pay off student loans or making thier way thru school.  Grey's Anatomy comes to mind where Katherine Heigl's charactor stripes off in the locker room and claims to those present that she does not owe a dime for her med school and this...her body..paid for it.



And then she can write her thesis on this experience (or perhaps experiment) too, it's win win.


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## vonGarvin (11 Sep 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> I wonder what school will accept her into their masters program in this study after this stunt.


Queen's  >

(Go stangs Go!)


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## aesop081 (11 Sep 2008)

Only in America

God bless


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## kratz (11 Sep 2008)

lucia_engel said:
			
		

> And then she can write her thesis on this experience (or perhaps experiment) too, it's win win.



I can just see it now. Taking notes before, during and after. Maybe having to adjust the camera angle to capture the moment and how she feels when the money changes hands, etc... :


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## brihard (11 Sep 2008)

Speaking for myself, and maybe a bit inappropriately- but I would hit that like the fist of an angry God.

Best of luck to her.


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## Welshy (11 Sep 2008)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Queen's  >
> 
> (Go stangs Go!)



Sadly being a Queen's Alum, you statement may have some Truth.

On another note, there are certain counties in Nevada where prostitution is Legal and I suspect that this brothel is in one of those counties.


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## ballz (11 Sep 2008)

Well one of those photos looks rediculously photoshopped for starters.

But anyway, 22 yrs old, been through university, and looking anything REMOTELY like that?

People, that million dollars might be able to buy you a lot of things but it aint buying a v-card... 





And if it is, she doesn't look like that good...


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## GAP (11 Sep 2008)

What's the 6/49 lottery at now?.........skipping.........off we go to buy tickets! off we go to buy tickets! off we go to buy tickets!


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## Jorkapp (11 Sep 2008)

There has always been controversy involving students selling their bodies in some shape or form to pay for higher education.

I can recall a year or two ago here in Guelph, the local strip joint had a contest of some kind where the winner would have their tuition (or a portion of it) payed for as a prize. The university administration put up a pretty huge protest over this, I think even threatening to expel the student who won. I can't remember what the outcome of this was, but the point still remains the same, if higher education institutes learn that their students are using their bodies instead of their minds to make money, it doesn't look good.



> Speaking for myself, and maybe a bit inappropriately- but I would hit that like the fist of an angry God.



Seconded.



> What's the 6/49 lottery at now.........skipping.........off we go to buy tickets! off we go to buy tickets! off we go to buy tickets!



GAP, honestly, the odds of getting THAT lucky TWICE in a row... I think you'd have better odds in seeing a leprechaun get hit by lightning


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## RCR Grunt (11 Sep 2008)




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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

...Looking thru wallet....$5.....um. 25 cents....hmm,. more meal claims and road trips???  Please


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

kratz said:
			
		

> I can just see it now. Taking notes before, during and after. Maybe having to adjust the camera angle to capture the moment and how she feels when the money changes hands, etc... :


...the "john" goes to jail...his wife leaves him...she writes a best selling book titles " A look into the secret lives of..."  makes millions...sells the video online to some geek for a million....buys a small island somewhere where they can walk around nekked all day...makes millions renting out private villas to sex starved and sex crazed movie stars....sits back and says.."ain't higher ejekation wunnerful??"


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## GAP (11 Sep 2008)

> GAP, honestly, the odds of getting THAT lucky TWICE in a row... I think you'd have better odds in seeing a leprechaun get hit by lightning



Ewwwh......where's the fun in that.....whereas...winning in either one of the two options above....... ;D


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## 1feral1 (11 Sep 2008)

At the end of the day, she's over 18, and what she does to celebrate her 'de-flowering' his her business.

As for hookers, well in this country, its legalised, no big deal, brothels advertise everywhere, its just part of our culture. Don't like that? Well, thats just how it is here  ;D

At least its regulated. Not many 'street walkers' either.

OWDU


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## Blackadder1916 (11 Sep 2008)

A "virgin" who seemingly frequents Nevada brothels?  Not to suggest that this young woman is anything less than honourable, but I wonder what the odds-makers in Vegas are putting on this being a bit of a scam.  Is she providing any certification that the "goods" are indeed intact as advertised?  Is there a moneyback guarantee?  Is she available for ritual offerings to the God of the Volcano?


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

...packing bags for Aussie land now...out!!!!!
Dang, you lads have it great!!!!  Better Beer {except for Keith's} [Coopers is nice].  Legalised brothels...dang, I miss my aus mates from....CM
 ;D


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## leroi (11 Sep 2008)

AEC Kapp said:
			
		

> There has always been controversy involving students selling their bodies in some shape or form to pay for higher education.
> 
> I can recall a year or two ago here in Guelph, the local strip joint had a contest of some kind where the winner would have their tuition (or a portion of it) payed for as a prize. The university administration put up a pretty huge protest over this, I think even threatening to expel the student who won. I can't remember what the outcome of this was, but the point still remains the same, if higher education institutes learn that their students are using their bodies instead of their minds to make money, it doesn't look good.
> 
> ...



Yes, I remember this too. Our Vice President Student Affairs launched a very effective media campaign against Guelph's only strip club.

I believe the strip club was hosting a wet t-shirt contest with the winner to receive one year's fee tuition.

 It ended quietly behind closed doors with a meeting between the strip club owner and the head of the university's Human Rights and Equity Office. 

Personally, I didn't understand why it was a big deal, like the owner of the club stated, university of Guelph students have been stripping in his joint for a long, long time.

I've met female students who do this to get themselves through school; the ones I've met are very conservative: they strip, dance and are photographed but they do not date, or otherwise fraternize with the clients. And why not, the female form is beautiful; if breasts can be used to sell beers, why can't they be used to get an education?


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

{standing} 
{appluading}
I once frequented a suchlike establishment whilst on TD... got to speaking to some of the girls out of curiousity and outright lonliness with no alterier motives in mind.  Two of them were on summer vacation from nursing school {one had a young child staying with her mom}.  Each owed nothing and DID NOT sell themselves out as hookers for extra money.  Stripping and teasing is one thing, being violated for money is a big step....Good for them.  8)


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Sep 2008)

In the end, it's legal. She won't be the first to put themselves through school by a means that offends some people's delicate psyche and morals. Whatever floats her boat and gets her where she wants to go.

As far as judging someone so inconsequential and so far away, about something that has no effect on me whatsoever, I'll reserve my opinion.

Lots of people prostitute themselves for their job...........they just don't bring sex into it


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## armyvern (11 Sep 2008)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> A "virgin" who seemingly frequents Nevada brothels?  Not to suggest that this young woman is anything less than honourable, but I wonder what the odds-makers in Vegas are putting on this being a bit of a scam.  Is she providing any certification that the "goods" are indeed intact as advertised?  Is there a moneyback guarantee?  Is she available for ritual offerings to the God of the Volcano?



I suspect there are many aspiring "non-certified" gynie candidates on this forum who are quite willing to take on her physical exam to put towards their own "certification." Who cares if they flunk-out later?? 

I'm willing to wager those boobs aren't real either - can one of you check them out while you're doing the "certification?" Perhaps you should all pool your money ... have some kind of contest amongst yourselves to determine the ultimate winner. Post pics here.


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## HItorMiss (11 Sep 2008)

To all those doubting the truth behind this young girls virginity, apparently to verify that she is she will produce a certified Gyno statement proving she is still has it....


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Sep 2008)

I can think of a number of ways for her to retain her physical virginity, yet still work a brothel.  :

People have to think outside the 'box' so to speak


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## ballz (11 Sep 2008)

then only other conclusion is that she doesnt look quite as good as those photoshopped pictures would indicate...



im not going to lie though, if women would pay me to strip for them, my pants would be off faster then when i pay them for... a leg-waxing.


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## Burrows (11 Sep 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I can think of a number of ways for her to retain her physical virginity, yet still work a brothel.  :
> 
> People have to think outside the 'box' so to speak


 :rofl:


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## dapaterson (11 Sep 2008)

There are numerous surgeons offering "reconstructive" surgery now, so even a Dr's exam would not be proof positive.


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## armyvern (11 Sep 2008)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There are numerous surgeons offering "reconstructive" surgery now, so even a Dr's exam would not be proof positive.



Lest there be any doubt ... it's only the boob job that I'm after; I've had sex twice and have the two kids to prove it. 

Hmmm ... this girl is giving me ideas ...  >


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## HItorMiss (11 Sep 2008)

Well she doesn't work in the brothel, I suspect that because she knew someone who did that the idea for her little auction was brought up to the owner who in turn offered his establishment for this little so-ire, good advertising it would seem.

Regardless of out skepticism I think she ill accumulate more then enough money to pay for her education. And to be honest good on her for thinking "out side the box" in her endeavour to pay for said education.


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## armchair_throwaway (11 Sep 2008)

Guys donate sperm for their higher education too, though without the glamour of auctioning.


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## Teeps74 (11 Sep 2008)

Good for her. Living in a capitalist country, everything is for sale anyways, she is just being more honest about it. 

And yes, without a doubt, I would not hesitate... But for the money. I suspect the auction would far exceed any number of dates in any given 5 year span. Too little for too much IMO.

(One of these days, I am gonna have to remember how to date... There is no prize for "last man standing"... I was lied to!)


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## NL_engineer (11 Sep 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I can think of a number of ways for her to retain her physical virginity, yet still work a brothel.  :
> 
> People have to think outside the 'box' so to speak




I hope your mind isn't as deep in the gutter as mine, as I just got a scary mental image  : :-X


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## Celticgirl (11 Sep 2008)

I have a feeling some of the males on this thread would feel differently if it were their 22-year-old daughter doing this.  ;D


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## NL_engineer (11 Sep 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I have a feeling some of the males on this thread would feel differently if it were their 22-year-old daughter doing this.  ;D



Well if it were my kid (I don't have any: that I know of anyway), I would use Ralph klein's 3 S'  ;D


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## 211RadOp (11 Sep 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I have a feeling some of the males on this thread would feel differently if it were their 22-year-old daughter doing this.  ;D



Darn staight I would...She's not even allowed to date until she's thirty


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## armyvern (11 Sep 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> I hope your mind isn't as deep in the gutter as mine, as I just got a scary mental image  : :-X



Well, Bill Clinton didn't think _that_ qualified as having sex either you know. And, eerily most men I know experience rather the opposite of "scary mental images" when thinking _that_ way outside of the box.  >


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## NL_engineer (11 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, Bill Clinton didn't think _that_ qualified as having sex either you know. And, eerily most men I know experience rather the opposite of "scary mental images" when thinking _that_ way outside of the box.  >



think waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay farther outside the box


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## armyvern (11 Sep 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> think waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay farther outside the box



See young 'un --- your problem is exactly that you are thinking waaaayyy too far outside the box when, really, just thinking below the belt and wee bit outside the box would see you having great visuals.

Kids these days ..  :

 ;D


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## Teeps74 (11 Sep 2008)

ROFL the entertainment value of this thread excedes expectations.


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## NL_engineer (11 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, Bill Clinton didn't think _that_ qualified as having sex either you know. And, eerily most men I know experience rather the opposite of "scary mental images" when thinking _that_ way outside of the box.  >



I got those from thinking in the box


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## Grando (11 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Ironic that she studied women's studies traditionaly the haven of rabid feminist  LMAO.....



not really - the newest wave of feminists believe in using your body in ways that empower you


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## Thompson_JM (12 Sep 2008)

Grando said:
			
		

> not really - the newest wave of feminists believe in using your body in ways that empower you



Even if i had the money I wouldnt pay.....

I wouldnt want to give her the satisfaction or ego boost of thinking she can do that...

cause lets face it... if a guy tried that he wouldnt get enough money to buy a Lg DD at Timmys.....

and if she was ugly she probabbly wouldnt even get airtime in the media....

I say she's not even worthy of the news space... there are women out there every day getting money for sex... they are prostitutes... just like her.... where are their 15 minutes of fame?


Ultimately... I feel sorry for her parents... clearly, they failed....


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

[Insert Random Name] said:
			
		

> ...right?



Why are you asking?


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## Thompson_JM (12 Sep 2008)

[Insert Random Name] said:
			
		

> What's so special about sleeping with a virgin anyway? I mean, it's not as much fun as if she has some experience....
> 
> ...right?



the only thing special about it is getting to have a really bad time while hearing her say "OOOWWWWW!" alot.....

my .02 is that its seriously overrated...


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## Kruggle (12 Sep 2008)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Then again, I see this young women and wonder: she's a 22 year old in university and still a virgin? !!



Umm.. what's wrong with that?


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## Michael OLeary (12 Sep 2008)

Any further posters should keep in mind the Conduct Guidelines.  This is MIlnet.ca Radio Chatter, it is not the /random/ board on a certain image posting site (if you don't know what that is, you probably do not want to go looking for it).  If this thread goes any further into the gutter be warned that it may disappear without warning.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Thompson_JM (12 Sep 2008)

[Insert Random Name] said:
			
		

> High school, got a friend that brags about how he's all high and mighty for deflowering a bit of the female population at my school. And given that I crash and burn with the ladies more often than a Sea King, and haven't had a stable relationship or anything past it, it makes me wonder why somebody might pay for this, at all.



One thing ive learned about high school... People talk a pretty good game... Doesnt mean it accually happened.... 
and even if he did managed to score a few goals in net, it really doesnt mean all that much... 

and Dont worry about it.... just because youre not the king pimp of the cafeteria doesnt mean jack.

once you get out of high school (if youre not already) and spend some time out in the real world you'll realize just how trivial so many of these things really are... dont take it to heart... 


and ultimately there are alot of reasons why people might want to pay for such services..... lonely/old/bored/feel empowered that they have the money to do it/ they could be physically disabled and not able to really get girls the old fashion way.... or not...  in any case, when it gets broken down to that level, it is an ultimately meaningless act devoid of any and all emotion.... however, Im going to heed the mods on this one, and refrain from talking about THAT subject any further and stick to the topic at hand... 

of which, I stated my opinion earlier... 

cheers
  Tommy


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## 1feral1 (12 Sep 2008)

Bitter and twisted??

I have lost 100's of thousands in two long term relationships since 1991.

I would have been better off over time, finding a brothel, sure you pay for it, but that cost would be the lesser of the two evils, as I have really paid for it by doing the right thing  ;D

Meanwhile, the more I date, the more I love my two cats.

OWDU


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (12 Sep 2008)

Hey Wes, I found the lesser of the 2 weevils >


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## 1feral1 (12 Sep 2008)

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> Hey Wes, I found the lesser of the 2 weevils >



Good one EW   ;D


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## FastEddy (12 Sep 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Okay, so let's say she's not from Nevada.  There's still a huge amount of press involved in this and you can bet that her former school knows about this and will be contacted by her future school for a reference.  I doubt she will be able to go around without being discovered.




Yes and I'll bet that you'll not be the Lawyer taking her case against the University for Discrimination if it comes to that.

And to all the nice girls who took the Toyota Route, I wonder how many of you never even got a phone call the next day.


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## FastEddy (12 Sep 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> Well one of those photos looks rediculously photoshopped for starters.
> 
> But anyway, 22 yrs old, been through university, and looking anything REMOTELY like that?
> 
> ...




WHAT IS EXACTLLY YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY ????


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## FastEddy (12 Sep 2008)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Darn staight I would...She's not even allowed to date until she's thirty




Oh how soon we forget, Ooops, I forgot, you never owned a Toyota.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2008)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> WHAT IS EXACTLLY YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY ????



That he doesn't "buy" her "V" claim; and, that even if he did - she's not his type anyway.


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## 211RadOp (12 Sep 2008)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Oh how soon we forget, Ooops, I forgot, you never owned a Toyota.



Ooops, miss read the statement...edit to delete my response.

And I did own a Toyota, but it was more interesting in the Civic!!  ;D


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## kincanucks (12 Sep 2008)

Her body and what she does with it is her business.  She is not the first woman that has taken a similar route to pay for their education and she won't be the last.  If I was her father I might have a hard time with it but in the end what can you do.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2008)

Umm...virgin,..yea...OK,.....maybe I should have some "reconstuctive" surgury and she can buy mine. :-*


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2008)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> ...but in the end what can you do.



Wait 3 months until after "the deed" is done; then all you boys who can't afford her ... will be able to fork out a mere 11.95 to see her in the million dollar paycheque _Playboy_ Spread that will follow. I'll guarantee it. 

Have no idea how I'll pay you off if I lose, but I'm thinking that I won't.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Umm...virgin,..yea...OK,.....maybe I should have some "reconstuctive" surgury and she can buy mine. :-*



Too many comments out in the public domain about your _aging porn star status _ --- you'd never be able to pull off such a scam.

I bet 'cha a pickle.


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## FastEddy (12 Sep 2008)

Tommy said:
			
		

> Even if i had the money I wouldnt pay.....
> 
> I wouldnt want to give her the satisfaction or ego boost of thinking she can do that...
> 
> ...




Tommy, you're so far out in left field, we are going to have to send a search party out for you.

1.   I don't think you have to worry about that problem.

2.   If you have a chat with a Psychologist, that its not a Ego thing, just the opposite.

3.   Obviously you haven't heard about Male Prostitutes or Escorts who cater to both genders.

4.   Having collared John's who have illegally engaged or solicited in the Sex Trade, you'd be surprised just what they were prepared to shell out good money for.

5.   Having Professionally dealt with a number of the Ladies of the Night you'd be very surprised at the varied reasons that have driven them onto the Streets. Certainly not their 15 minutes of Fame.

6.   Their Parents failed, in the bounds of all civility, I won't even start to reply to that.


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## Michael OLeary (12 Sep 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Umm...virgin,..yea...OK,.....maybe I should have some "reconstuctive" surgury and she can buy mine. :-*



Can you surgically "reconstruct" a shattered moral compass and misspent youth?     ;D


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

“ Does anyone else have trouble believing someone willing to pay $250,000 for sex would ever be able to cough it up? Remember, Eliot Spitzer’s six-monthaffair with Ashley DiPietro cost “only” $15,000 (and his job)

Virginity became prized with the advent of private ownership.  As men began to leave an inheritance, requiring virginity and the chastity of women was the only way to ensure the paternity of their offspring.  In this we can see the biological imperative to reproduce taking precedence over the so-called male need for sex. Of course men did allow themselves an out.  By actively supporting prostitution they can participate in "meaningless" sex, and then return home to a proper domesticated wife.  Each woman plays a key role in maintaining patriarchy by serving male needs.  Although each woman is significant to a mans life, their value is based solely on their vaginas, and the pleasure or status that it provides.

Men are not encouraged to remain chaste, in fact their male status is heightened by their ability to have sex with various partners.  Men are socialized to consume, and women are socialized to submit.

While I fully respect Dylan's choice, I must wonder how many women will be forced to make similar decisions because of the sudden poverty that they find themselves in?  There is a difference between choosing prostitution because you need the money, versus wanting the money.  The terrible part about this is that no one will rail against a government that refuses to provide education, which is a human right. Dylan will be slut shamed, and left with a spoiled identity. Good luck to you Natalie, but I certainly hope that some significant changes occur, so that women will no longer have to make the "choice" that you did.

There is already a spike in women selling their eggs, and now we can add virginity auctioning to the latest specifically female attempt to manage economic disparity.  As the economy continues to worsen, I suspect we will see more and more cases like this.

She'll probably get a couple of thousand $ from some sick weirdo, who she'll later need to get a restraining order against.

There are other ways apart from prostitution and the back seat of a car to loose your virginity.”


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> ..........  The terrible part about this is that no one will rail against a government that refuses to provide education, which is a human right.



Education is a human right?  Interesting.  I never knew that.  In fact there are very few things that I can think of as being a human Right.  As a matter of fact, too many are claiming Rights to do many things, such as join the Military, or go to university.  In fact the universities are "Dumbing Down" due to this feeling of "entitlement" people have today.




			
				Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> Dylan will be slut shamed, and left with a spoiled identity.  If you have any doubt about the slut shaming, just read the commentary posted on the first link that I provided.  Good luck to you Natalie, but I certainly hope that some significant changes occur, so that women will no longer have to make the "choice" that you did.



Perhaps in your Puritanical part of North America, but those feelings are not shared in other societies around the World.  Even Europeans don't hold these opinions.  Many European women have paid their way through university working in brothels.


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

I’d be curious to know more about how you state that universities are “dumbing down”.  

And yes, education is a human right but like health care, only the rich will be able to educate themselves in the future, especially in the states.

Good point and I have very different views and opinions on this subject.
It could spark numerous discussions about many things.


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> I’d be curious to know more about how you state that universities are “dumbing down”.



It has been a common problem that was first addressed in the 1970's when surveys showed that universities were graduating functionally illiterate students.  It is easy to see that the situation hasn't changed, and perhaps has worsened, by just reading the posts on this site by supposed university graduates.  We have had dozens of such personalities on this site, wanting to become officers, but who couldn't construct a coherent sentence or even use correct spelling to communicate their questions or demonstrate their abilities.

 [EDIT to add] 



			
				Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> And yes, education is a human right but like health care, only the rich will be able to educate themselves in the future, especially in the states.




I will agree in part.  All Canadians should be given Primary education.  I think that the Government's responsibility ends when a student graduates High School.  University or College is a privilege that those who have the skills to attend should have open to them.  Do we as a nation have to fully fund university education?  No.  Those who are ambitious enough to will find the resources to do so on their own.  Those who are resourceful, may not need to go to university to make their fortunes working for someone else.  They are the entrepreneurs, who will create their own futures, as their own bosses;  the K.C. Irvings, the Bill Gates, etc. of the world.

A university education is just a piece of paper that one can use to acquire a job working for someone else a little quicker than a person without that piece of paper hanging on a wall.


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## armyvern (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> I’d be curious to know more about how you state that universities are “dumbing down”.
> 
> And yes, education is a human right but like health care, only the rich will be able to educate themselves in the future, especially in the states.
> 
> ...



Post-secondary education is not a right, nor is it an "entitlement". You want it? You pay - plain and simple really.

Last time I checked, education up to the High School Diploma certainly IS covered by the public coffers which are filled up by taxpayers money. Ergo --- you can get it for free if you want it. What seems to be the issue? You want more than the basics, so figure someone else should pay?


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## Teeps74 (12 Sep 2008)

Education is an individual responsibility. NOT a right. As human beings, we should all be striving to better ourselves anyway we can, this precludes hand outs to those unwilling to work towards it.

Is college/university expensive? Yes. However it is not out of reach. Those that are willing do, and do so without any dumbing down. Those that are unwilling, mew and complain about the cost of higher education, instead of actually going out, getting a job or two, and working through it. "Survival of the fittest" would be the working operative here. Anything else...

And this is coming from a fella that would approve of a more socialist approach to education. Education and health care are two subjects I am "left leaning" on.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> The terrible part about this is that no one will rail against a government that refuses to provide education, which is a human right..



Wow........I guess I'm just a poor battered hapless Canadian refugee then with my measly 11 credits.
I feel so violated.

"Where's my lawyer?"


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> "Where's my lawyer?"



Tier 3, Cell 5     ;D


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## Michael OLeary (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> And yes, education is a human right but like health care,



Official sources please.


Canadian Bill of Rights
1960, c. 44
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-12.3///en?page=1



> Recognition and declaration of rights and freedoms
> 
> 1. It is hereby recognized and declared that in Canada there have existed and shall continue to exist without discrimination by reason of race, national origin, colour, religion or sex, the following human rights and fundamental freedoms, namely,
> 
> ...




I can't find post-secondary education in that list, even if some who go to university never achieve more than sub-paras d and e.


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

Okay, okay, maybe not a Right and I don’t think it should be free but it should be more affordable to the average Joe, not just those that are fortunate enough to be able to pay for it. 

I went to university and paid for it by working. I just didn’t have the guts or body to strip because I probably would have J 
The hours are good and the money is quick. Would I be less of a person today. Probably not.

How many of you are still paying off student loans. How many have had their credit hurt because of this. Just to educate yourself?  

In France, education is totally free of charge. Health care is also free. Are they suffering? Is their country is disarray. No. The difference there is that the government is afraid that the people will protest and rebel. Which they do. They have proved it over and over again. Here and in the states, we do not have a voice and the government is not afraid of us. Hence why nothing is changing,

If we are going to talk about university education, we will have to start at the root of the problem which is primary and secondary schools which are free and teach the basics of education.  These institutions require more attention wrt the level of quality they are educating with.  It starts there.


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## Teeps74 (12 Sep 2008)

Ahh reasonable, opinion based discourse. A debate even... An enjoyable thread.

I would debate the state of France's society, as there has been a fair bit of dissatisfaction by that country's poor immigrants. A couple of years ago, there were even riots in several large cities, inlcuding Paris.

I have to get back to work, so I will comment more in depth later.

(You would be surprised at some of the girls dancing today... Not all have barbie doll figures. I have seen several larger women do very well, on the grounds of confidence, and a comprehension of what is erotic as opposed to what is perverse)


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## ex-Sup (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> If we are going to talk about university education, we will have to start at the root of the problem which is primary and secondary schools which are free and teach the basics of education.  These institutions require more attention wrt the level of quality they are educating with.  It starts there.


Please do elaborate...educating minds are really curious what you have to say.


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

I’m always up for a good debate. 

Teeps74, you do have a point. I didn’t say that they had a perfect society or no problems but from those riots, decisions were made and they fact still remains that health care and education are free – regardless. It is the people that force the government to change.

As for your comment on plus girls dancing, I have not seen myself anyone dancing that does not fit the stereotypical dancer type. I’m sure they exist but it’s not a regular hangout for me. You could probably tell me more on that subject ..

Ex-Sup:  Well, everyone knows that the schools are under funded and not up to pare with today’s’ standards.  In some provinces, anyone can become a teacher or replacement teacher. What does that say about the quality in our teachers and caregivers?

Again, you can get a better quality education if you can pay for a private institution.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with any of you. 

I’m still paying for my student loans. Only 5,000 left..Auction starts @ midnight. 

Does wishing you were a virgin again count


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## rlee_1001 (12 Sep 2008)

Puss,

I find that hard to believe that anyone can just step in to a teaching role. Here in Alberta there aren't enough jobs for teachers hardly and to get one you would likely have to move away to some other part of the province. Are you speaking specifically about post secondary or the actual education system from k-12?


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

I was talking more about k-12. They are a little more regimented at the university level I would hope.
My mother replaces teachers for weeks at a time and only has a high school degree. 
She's not a "qualified" teacher but is considered a temp-teacher. She works for the Ontario government.

Im not saying she can't do it but the fact remains that our kids are being taught by people who themselves, only have a high school diploma, nothing else.


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## Strike (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> My mother replaces teachers for weeks at a time and only has a high school *degree.*



Really?  Well that's impressive...


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## ballz (12 Sep 2008)

rlee_1001 said:
			
		

> I find that hard to believe that anyone can just step in to a teaching role. *Here in Alberta there aren't enough jobs for teachers hardly * and to get one you would likely have to move away to some other part of the province. Are you speaking specifically about post secondary or the actual education system from k-12?



Geez, where were all these teachers when I was in Fort Mac for the previous 6 years from grade 7-12? Our class sizes were up to 45 people.

I'll second the notion that the educators can be lacking a bit of competence. Up until high school where everybody has a degree in their chosen area PLUS an education degree, you're hard-pressed to come across a "good teacher." Even in high school with the 2 bachelors degrees, some teachers aren't extremely competent, and its pretty easy to prove it too with the way Alberta high schools have their grade 12 diploma exams set up.

Am I just a bitter teenage snob? Don't count on it. I did very well in all areas of academics from the day I started, but I'm somebody that just gets it, and don't need much help other then a powerpoint slide and a few examples. But it's easy to observe which people can teach the kids that don't get it so easily, and which ones can't.

Do I think its going to change or is even able to? No. There simply isn't enough money to go around to start requiring people to have 2 degrees just to teach some grade 5 kids, or an abundance of people with 2 degrees that would be willing to do it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the education system isn't as good as it should be, but its probably as good as it could be, or close. It works fine, and those who want to better themselves and do well inevitably will, so its not like we need to start squeezing dollars out of somewhere else just to grease up a squeeky...thing.


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## rlee_1001 (12 Sep 2008)

I think Ft Mac is a little bit of a special circumstance. When a town goes from a population of what 3000 maybe and then jumps to something ridiculous like 20 or 30 000 (speculation) they obviously aren't going to be properly staffed or equipped to handle the massive spike in population. I had a friend graduate last year with a degree in mathematics along with the 2 year education after degree and he had to move up north to find a job as it was impossible to find one in the Edmonton area. I'm not saying we don't need more teachers, don't get me wrong, but there simply isn't the funding to create positions for them.


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## ballz (12 Sep 2008)

rlee_1001 said:
			
		

> I think Ft Mac is a little bit of a special circumstance. When a town goes from a population of what 3000 maybe and then jumps to something ridiculous like 20 or 30 000 (speculation) they obviously aren't going to be properly staffed or equipped to handle the massive spike in population.



where are you from? those numbers are so far off theres no way you're living anywhere west on Ontario.

Try from 45,000 to 80,000 over 7 years. And it's not proportionate, an appropriate percent of those 35,000 are NOT school-aged people.

I don't disagree that the Mac will always be the extreme picture, but it is the overall picture. Alberta historically has imported many of its teachers from other provinces, and the population shift isn't changing. Google "Alberta teacher shortage" and the evidence is there, minus like one article from the government of Alberta saying that there's no current shortage.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots,

My wife substitute taught for a long time before she [we] decided the kids were old enough and she started a job as a school secretary.
I spent a lot of time teaching about running a Battery level CP when I was in the military. [advanced tech, advanced comms]
..and of course almost forgetting we both learned a second language in our late twenties.

Whereas she had no high school credits so between us we haven't even hit your "just high school" level, and yet, somehow we have excelled at all those things.

Your judgement of those whom, for whatever reason, haven't received the same education you have speaks volumes about your charactor. Never confuse education and intelligence since they have NOTHING in common.


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

You have unfortunately  mis-interpreted my thoughts properly and if I have given you that sense, it was not my intention. You obviously do not know me and I am sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. You should have involved yourself in the debate rather than attack me, on a personal level. I am more neutral on this issue and have numerous opinions, that in themselves, contradict one another.
Lets not mix business and pleasure.

I don't think someone with a university level is in no means more competant or productive in this society. A piece of paper proves nothing. Not all people that have made a difference in this world been educated by an institution.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> Ex-Sup:  Well, everyone knows that the schools are under funded and not up to pare with today’s’ standards.  In some provinces, anyone can become a teacher or replacement teacher. What does that say about the quality in our teachers and caregivers?
> 
> Again, you can get a better quality education if you can pay for a private institution.



Hard not to get involved when you toss out a line like that when my wife was/is one of your "anyone's".

I'd like your definition of "quality education" by the way.  I happen to think my kids are getting one right now in the "public" system.......


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## Michael OLeary (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> In France, education is totally free of charge. Health care is also free. Are they suffering? Is their country is disarray. No. The difference there is that the government is afraid that the people will protest and rebel. Which they do. They have proved it over and over again. Here and in the states, we do not have a voice and the government is not afraid of us. Hence why nothing is changing,



By this are you advocating rioting in the streets as an engine of change?  Would you want this in our country?  Do you feel it is a desirable element in their governing processes?


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## Strike (12 Sep 2008)

Can we get this back on topic please?  (Yes, I'm also guilty of derailing the thread and I apologize.)


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## Niteshade (12 Sep 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> By this are you advocating rioting in the streets as an engine of change?


No I think it is clear he is not advocating it.



			
				Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Would you want this in our country?


No. I also think it is clear he does not want this in our country.



			
				Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Do you feel it is a desirable element in their governing processes?


No. Again, also quite clear he is not saying this is a desirable element either.

He does say: 





> Here and in the states, we do not have a voice and the government is not afraid of us. Hence why nothing is changing


To which he is right for the most part. When Canadians don't like something we have our little peaceful rallies, but for the most part change does not occur.

What's your point with your questions?

Nites


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## Michael OLeary (12 Sep 2008)

Niteshade said:
			
		

> What's your point with your questions?
> 
> Nites



If you go back to the post I was questioning, she was making the statement that the conditions established by rioting (i.e., that the government was afraid of the people) enabled the maintenance of free post-secondary education.  She stated that this difference is why "nothing is changing" in Canada.

Perhaps you should pull in your horns and examine the exchange a little more closely.


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## Puss~in~Boots (12 Sep 2008)

My point was more geared towards the fact that the main difference in the french and candadian way of thinking/acting in the face of the government, who in turn, control the education system.

The government in France are afraid that if they do not uphold what the people want, the will gather in large groups to protest. Sometimes riots occur but for the most part, people are there to defend an important issue. We may not necessarily agree with it but they do.

Here, in canada, we do not protest or march as much as they do when regarding political or educational changes. They are not afraid of their people so our voices are not as loud.

Don't get me wrong. I think I am fortunate to live in Canada and I am fairly pleased with the education my kids are getting. Mind you, I don't just ant any Joe Blow off the srteet to be able to give it to them.

Like I said before, a degree is not everything. As a teacher, you have to inspire kids and be able to teach the subject. Thats not something that is taught at the universities. Quality education hould mean that everyone is entitled to the same oportunities regardless of class or social status or financial situation. I know I am living in a fantasy world.

But some countries are able to offer free education and they are not bankrupt or in dissaray. They made it work.

There obviously alot of problems and they lie on different levels. From Kindergarden to university. 

My motto is: it could be worst.


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## SupersonicMax (12 Sep 2008)

But it could be better, and that's what we should be striving for.


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## ex-Sup (12 Sep 2008)

Puss~in~Boots said:
			
		

> I’m always up for a good debate.
> Ex-Sup:  Well, everyone knows that the schools are under funded and not up to pare with today’s’ standards.  In some provinces, anyone can become a teacher or replacement teacher. What does that say about the quality in our teachers and caregivers?


Okay, here I go.
Yes, schools are underfunded, but please define "not up to today's standard's." What are we judging this by?

As for the comment about teachers, this only happens in rare circumstances. Almost all teachers have a teaching degree (BEd) and the only ones who don't are some specialized tech teachers who get a special Tech teaching degree. We do have a Native language teacher at our school who isn't qualified b/c there's no qualified people to teach that class. They only other instance that I've heard of non-qualified teachers teaching are in some smaller communities where they have a hard time find subsitute teachers. Every teacher in Ontario can be looked up at the College of Teachers:
http://www.oct.ca/PublicRegister/Default.aspx?lang=en-CA
If you look hard enough, you'll find me there


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Sep 2008)

OK. We're no where near the original topic anymore, and it was beat to death, never to have a mutual outcome.

Seven pages on some bimbos money scheme involving her, ahem, physical state of abstinence\ academic career, is even a bit overdone for the likes of this forum. 

Regular caveats apply here folks.

Locked.

Milnet.ca Staff


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