# 8 Months to get a DND License Plate



## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

Our NRD just purchased a new trailer for our RHIB and 17 Wing TEME has informed us that it will be at least 8 months before we can get the trailer a CFR plate.

Why? Why are things so screwed up that we allow this sort of bureaucratic crap to flourish? Good god the Provinces plate hundreds of thousands of vehicles daily and the CAF cannot plate a trailer within a reasonable amount of time?


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## SeaKingTacco (1 Jun 2016)

Not that I am making an excuse for DND, but there was a recent effort by NDHQ to try and figure out just how many trailers were owned by the CF- because so many units had gone out and purchased them with unit funds, vice centrally.

I would imagine that there is now a bit of backlog in giving CFRs to hundreds of newly discovered trailers...


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## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Not that I am making an excuse for DND, but there was a recent effort by NDHQ to try and figure out just how many trailers were owned by the CF- because so many units had gone out and purchased them with unit funds, vice centrally.
> 
> I would imagine that there is now a bit of backlog in giving CFRs to hundreds of newly discovered trailers...



But 8 months? C'mon, that is just BS.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Jun 2016)

FSTO:

If your unit just got a new trailer for its RHIB, shouldn't it replace the old trailer?  Unless you got a new RHIB as well, but they are usually delivered NRD's on their own trailer. Otherwise, why not just use the old trailer's plate?


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## Lumber (1 Jun 2016)

It took 2 months for us to get a CFR for a Zodiac trailer that was purchased for us.  The trailer was delivered, but sat around in London while we waited for a CFR. They couldn't even conduct the safety inspection until a CFR was issued (why they can't just safety the thing then fill out the paper work when the CFR arrives I don't know...).

I was told the reason it took so long to get a CFR was because the office that handles CFRs in Ottawa had a fire (perhaps someone here from Ottawa can confirm) and they've been having a doozie of a time sorting their shit out.

But that was a 2 month wait, not 8 months! By jesus....


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## dapaterson (1 Jun 2016)

Yes, the folks who license vehicles are in temporary accommodation since their building burned (and is still closed).  They were also cut to make DRAP / SR targets, and increased turn around times are a side effect of that.

I am surprised that a unit bought their own; generally, Mobile Support Equipment (MSE) isn't a local thing.  That may be part of the issue - was TEME informed this would be coming?  Or was it a surprise that they now have to fit into their schedule and into their backlog of work?


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## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> FSTO:
> 
> If your unit just got a new trailer for its RHIB, shouldn't it replace the old trailer?  Unless you got a new RHIB as well, but they are usually delivered NRD's on their own trailer. Otherwise, why not just use the old trailer's plate?



Our boat and old trailer are in Vancouver right now, its supposed to be shipped back to us sometime soon (another issue, but I digress) so we still have the old trailer and its plate. I would think that he faceless drones in Ottawa would have a complete meltdown if we pulled the old plate and put it on the new trailer.

And even if they had an issue in Ottawa, who in their right mind would think that a 2 month wait for plates is acceptable? I certainly don't and if it takes that long to approve simple plates, no wonder it is an utter cluster to approve anything else there.


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## George Wallace (1 Jun 2016)

I would have thought that a simple phone call to pass on the pertinent information as to make and type of trailer, mfr, and serial numbers, etc. and then having the authority issue you a number (over the phone) to put on the blank plates your Transport Sect/Rep holds would be the order of the day.  (Substitute email for phone as required.)




(Problem with email, is that they are often ignored.)


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## Lumber (1 Jun 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I would have thought that a simple phone call to pass on the pertinent information as to make and type of trailer, mfr, and serial numbers, etc. and then having the authority issue you a number (over the phone) to put on the blank plates your Transport Sect/Rep holds would be the order of the day.  (Substitute email for phone as required.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



George, how long have you been out for? You must have retired a while ago, because your comment is a perfect example of simple, efficient, sufficient, and sensible, all things which we are not...


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## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I would have thought that a simple phone call to pass on the pertinent information as to make and type of trailer, mfr, and serial numbers, etc. and then having the authority issue you a number (over the phone) to put on the blank plates your Transport Sect/Rep holds would be the order of the day.  (Substitute email for phone as required.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh we have tried that. It seems that they are transiting over to a new plate accounting system and there have been some issues. That was the reply we received last summer and nothing seems to have changed.

It also seems that our support TEME has no plates in their inventory to give us.


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## Lumber (1 Jun 2016)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Oh we have tried that. It seems that they are transiting over to a new plate accounting system and there have been some issues. That was the reply we received last summer and nothing seems to have changed.
> 
> It also seems that our support TEME has no plates in their inventory to give us.



FSTO,

Are you at an NRD or are you on the ORO course?


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## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

So there appears to be one guy in Ottawa who is responsible for entering CFR numbers in the system. The priority is to get the Blue fleet (what ever that is) done because they get done every 5 years. Anything new, especially if it is a local purchase (our trailers were purchased by NAVRES) then it goes to the bottom of the pile. 
According to our TEME contact, 8 months would be the BEST case scenario, more like a year.

Now to this simple Naval Officer this is no way to run a railroad.  Why can't the local TEME (who has a stack of plates in their office) have access to a CAF CFR database and enter the required information and issue the plates (like every civilian plate issuer in Hicksville Nunavut can do). Why do we insist on doing business like such morons?


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## ModlrMike (1 Jun 2016)

Start "no filling" your boat taskings because your trailers have no CFR and watch what happens. Seriously though, I think perhaps a side conversation with NAVRES pointing out that your boats are now out of play might change things.


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## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Start "no filling" your boat taskings because your trailers have no CFR and watch what happens. Seriously though, I think perhaps a side conversation with NAVRES pointing out that your boats are now out of play might change things.



That is my next COA.


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## mariomike (1 Jun 2016)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Good god the Provinces plate hundreds of thousands of vehicles daily and the CAF cannot plate a trailer within a reasonable amount of time?



Time to speed up production in the federal pens? < joke >


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## donaldk (1 Jun 2016)

FSTO,

What TEME used to do in Fleet Management System is mostly now also done in DRMIS.  The old way of asking them for things and it happening doesn't happen much anymore until the L1 notification is filed.  I had to get a DRMIS account (roll 6502) just to be able to get my CFR in for a simple brake job (thankfully I was exposed to DRMIS MA&S when I was on ship).  You should discuss with your TEME if the same is required for your unit's transport rep - if your rep hasn't used DRMIS MA&S before they WILL need a walk-thru as SAPGUI is user unfriendly at best.   Once the notification is in to TEME's planning cell it forms a record in TEME's hopper that can't be deleted.  Then hit off NAVRES as per ModlrMike's post -- because TEME won't be able to say they weren't informed as the DRMIS homework will be done by the time NAVRES comes at them throwing fire .


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## George Wallace (1 Jun 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> George, how long have you been out for? You must have retired a while ago, because your comment is a perfect example of simple, efficient, sufficient, and sensible, all things which we are not...



Three years this Sep.  I always found that the Telephone backup to an email worked best, if you did not have the actual opportunity for a face to face.  

The various systems have been degrading for years.  I remember around 2000 having to deal with DDSAL reference a .50 Cal that a Sgt Major had acquired through a back door at 2 Svc Bn to mount on a Lynx monument.  For three or four years, I had to go to Customer Services in Pet, and also phone DDSAL directly, to sort out two DA (accounts) that had the same .50 Cal with the identical Serial Number.......One gun on two accounts, and three or four years, even with corrective actions taken, the error remained.  I can only imagine, with all the changes to accounting systems and changes from one system to "newer, better" systems, how screwed up things are now.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Jun 2016)

So to a certain extent you are back to what I suggested.

We did something like that about 15 years ago at DON. So, by the time your RHIB and old trailer are back, just switch the plate to the new one and then inform, in writing, your TEME of what you did (something like "be advised Plate XYZ, issued for trailer serial number 123 has been transferred to trailer serial number 456 as at <insert date>, old trailer will be disposed of as crown surplus".  When we did, by the time the paperwork caught up, we were told "fine, keep the plate we won't issue a new one. Thanks for the heads up."

Besides, if your unit is not in a town with Regular force units around, you can always drive around without a plate. Civilian cops usually don't know enough about the military to be stumped by just saying "But Harbour defence Units equipment is not subject to licensing requirements" if you get intercepted.  

p.s.: Please don't try that last paragraph - it's a joke.


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## Lumber (1 Jun 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Besides, if your unit is not in a town with Regular force units around, you can always drive around without a plate. Civilian cops usually don't know enough about the military to be stumped by just saying "But Harbour defence Units equipment is not subject to licensing requirements" if you get intercepted.
> 
> p.s.: Please don't try that last paragraph - it's a joke.



Please do not ignore this last paragraph, it's a brilliant idea.


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## FSTO (1 Jun 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> So to a certain extent you are back to what I suggested.
> 
> We did something like that about 15 years ago at DON. So, by the time your RHIB and old trailer are back, just switch the plate to the new one and then inform, in writing, your TEME of what you did (something like "be advised Plate XYZ, issued for trailer serial number 123 has been transferred to trailer serial number 456 as at <insert date>, old trailer will be disposed of as crown surplus".  When we did, by the time the paperwork caught up, we were told "fine, keep the plate we won't issue a new one. Thanks for the heads up."
> 
> ...



 It's stupid bureaucratic stuff like that that cause us to take action as per the last paragraph. I will certainly take that under advisement OGBD!!!


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## ModlrMike (1 Jun 2016)

I was recently told that the boats are now tied to the trailers' CFR, so you can't mix and match anymore. The end result being that if either a boat or trailer becomes VOR, you're out both the boat and trailer.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Jun 2016)

To quote today's generation: Whaaaaaaaaaaat!

This makes about as much sense as it would for a civilian's boat, in the vessels registry of Transport Canada to be linked to its trailer in the provincial registry of vehicles for the province that issued the trailer's plate.

Those boats are part of the RCN assets and are shipped/transferred/Chop'ed, etc. as need be for operations of the fleet and training - with or without their trailer.


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## cupper (1 Jun 2016)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I was recently told that the boats are now tied to the trailers' CFR, so you can't mix and match anymore. The end result being that if either a boat or trailer becomes VOR, you're out both the boat and trailer.



There's your problem, you should have ordered a new RHIB along with the trailer.  :facepalm:


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## cupper (1 Jun 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Time to speed up production in the federal pens? < joke >



As an aside, New Hampshire has a sense of humour when it comes to prisoners making their plates.


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## Zoomie (1 Jun 2016)

17 Wing TEME has one of the largest fleets in the CF.

If they didn't buy your trailer (which it seems like it was NAVRES) - they can't really be expected to jump up and react to your unexpected request.  It takes about 24 months to replace a trailer/vehicle/etc in the CF.  Gone are the days of just buying what you want with a FIN Code and expecting your local TEME unit to support.  Your trailer is an "orphan" until they work hard on their part to adopt it into the system - they need to go to Ottawa now and get them to agree that your trailer is worthy and should be supported by the system.  By making this agreement - 17 Wg TEME is now fiscally responsible to maintain and support your shiney new trailer.

I had DGDS agree to fund 2x ATV and 2x Snowmobile for my base defense teams - TEME denied it at the national level.  Having the money is not important anymore, it's up to Ottawa to decide.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Jun 2016)

With all due respect Ditch, that is just bull.

The trailers, tow vehicles (F350 or Chevy 3500) and dive support trucks for the reserve units, which are assigned as assets for Harbour Defence teams and Port Inspection Dive teams, have been purchased by NAVRES right from the start, and so have their replacements. They are already fully authorized at all levels that need to authorize them and are part of the Naval Reserve Units permanent entitlement. This goes back almost 20 years now (when you joined?) and has always been fully authorized - thankfully in fact since the very year after all the NRD got them as a result of the Navy acquiring and paying for them directly, they were ALL required for the Winnipeg Flood relief mission.

There is no comparison between this - replacement of an already authorized vehicle - and your independent decision to get some extra bling vehicles for your base defence team, equipment that was not part of their  actual entitlement to start with.

Finally, anyone can see right away that the shiny new trailer, which if you read the whole story is meant as a replacement for an old one, will actually cause less fiscal stress on your poor 17 Wg TEME to maintain and support than the old one it is replacing used to cause.

And BTW, all those vehicles at the Naval Reserve Units, they are NOT part of 17 Wg TEME's fleet of vehicle. They belong to the RCN. 

Edited to add: I don't know what maintenance and support by TEME is required. In my time in the Naval Reserve, short of an accident totalling the thing, we took care of all the maintenance and repairs to our boats and trailers at the Unit level. We have all the trained bosn, mechanics and other techs that can ever be required to do all this in-house: it's part of their trades.


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