# Military examines camouflage redesign - Does this mean new uniforms?



## Kilo_302 (9 Sep 2009)

http://iphone.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/09/defence-troops-camouflage-fatigues182.html


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## helpup (9 Sep 2009)

Interesting article that points out amoung a few other things.
- All the screaming from politicals and Armchair generals about being ill-equipted and pointing to the green cadpat...... that were found to be better suited in many areas then the Arid pattern. 


Now I wonder if they will solve the fading problem with the Cadpat color fastness.  What we have now is an improvement over the initial issue...... Then again maybe that was the plan, Cadpat too dark just wash it a few more times to fade it to taste


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## Gronk (9 Sep 2009)

In Afg our operations took place in the mountainous regions of the country and the green cadpat fit right in to the rocky, scruby ground.
   I recall being in a firebase on a mtntop covering another spur approx 400m away where a force of Cdn & US troops were moving into posn and the Americans stood out like sore thumbs in their desert cam. We could barely make out the Cdns.


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## SuperTrooper (9 Sep 2009)

I heard on 680 news today and yesterday that the military is getting new uniforms.
Could someone confirm this?


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## Redeye (9 Sep 2009)

A Request For Proposals has gone out for a new pattern uniform to replace CADPAT.  It was in The Star and the Globe And Mail yesterday.

New uniform designs incorporating CADPAT are around in prototype form, I saw some being sported by the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa on Maple Defender this year.



			
				SuperTrooper said:
			
		

> I heard on 680 news today and yesterday that the military is getting new uniforms.
> Could someone confirm this?


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## erik.hillis (9 Sep 2009)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/09/defence-troops-camouflage-fatigues182.html


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## Teflon (9 Sep 2009)

Son of a B***H!,  and here I just got my new CADPAT rain gear!


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## Sonnyjim (9 Sep 2009)

"The digitized pattern helps them avoid being spotted with night-vision goggles."

I didn't know this.... I can see people just fine with NVG's on, cadpat or no cadpat. Is the cadpat idea the same and just a different 'printed' pattern? I'm a bit confused how the camo is going to be different.


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## PuckChaser (9 Sep 2009)

The pattern was designed for lower resolution NVGs and optics than are currently available to many Western nations.


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## vonGarvin (9 Sep 2009)

Great, I suppose it will be ready for the Clone Wars in stardate 3211.4


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## Jammer (9 Sep 2009)

US Army ACUs anyone, or maybe that goofy USAF gray tiger stripe??


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## EddieUV777 (9 Sep 2009)

Jammer said:
			
		

> US Army ACUs anyone, or maybe that goofy USAF gray tiger stripe??



Congress is passing a law saying we have to switch from ACU's to a different pattern. I believe we are going Multicam.


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## DirtyDog (9 Sep 2009)

Here I was hoping this was about an actual change to the combats.... not the fabric it's made of.  I mean, is it really a pressing need?  So many other things they could spend the money on.....


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (9 Sep 2009)

Agreed. First time I've heard that the CADPAT pattern is in need of a revamp, compared to the numerous complaints about the actual design (pocket layout etc etc). The article was pretty vague on the actual reason the redesign of CADPAT. Can anyone elaborate on this, or if there is talk about redesigning the actual uniform layout?


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## dapaterson (9 Sep 2009)

Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC) is researching new patterns.

From R&D things go to trials; from trials to decisions on what to do; then to implementation.

That can be a long involved process - don't expect any new pattern to show up en masse before 2014 or so (and even that's optimistic).


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## McG (9 Sep 2009)

SuperTrooper said:
			
		

> I heard on 680 news today and yesterday that the military is getting new uniforms.


Not anytime soon.



			
				Redeye said:
			
		

> A Request For Proposals has gone out for a new pattern uniform to replace CADPAT.


No.  There was an RFP for a better way of developing/evaluating new camouflages.  I suspect the RFP was not a Army initiative but rather something from ADM(S&T) for the folks in Valcartier.



			
				Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Can anyone elaborate ... if there is talk about redesigning the actual uniform layout?


Do a search for the Integrated Solider System Project (ISSP).  If anyone has such a mandate, it is that project.


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## MikeL (9 Sep 2009)

EddieUV777 said:
			
		

> Congress is passing a law saying we have to switch from ACU's to a different pattern. I believe we are going Multicam.



You may have phrased that wrong...

read up more on the topic
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159255


Also, as far as I can see you are a civvie so theres no "we" in the "we have to switch from ACUs to a different pattern" it would be "They"


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## BKells (9 Sep 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> I saw some being sported by the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa on Maple Defender this year.



Lol...

Whatever you saw wasn't issued. But if that kept the moustaches off our back... ok, sure.


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## PuckChaser (10 Sep 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> Great, I suppose it will be ready for the Clone Wars in stardate 3211.4



And then it'll be good enough to fool current NVG and optic technology.  ;D


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## vanislerev (10 Sep 2009)

helpup said:
			
		

> Now I wonder if they will solve the fading problem with the Cadpat color fastness.  What we have now is an improvement over the initial issue...... Then again maybe that was the plan, Cadpat too dark just wash it a few more times to fade it to taste



By the time they fade to that point they are full of holes, zipper is toast and usually atleast one button missing. Even if the color is still good they will still be toast in the same timeframe.


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## Redeye (10 Sep 2009)

Hmm, your fearless, disco-loving, carbine-toting leader suggested to me they were - fortunately for all I didn't notice much enforcement of a variety of things there.  I sure was sporting a beard at the final parade at KAF.



			
				Junius said:
			
		

> Lol...
> 
> Whatever you saw wasn't issued. But if that kept the moustaches off our back... ok, sure.


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## Eagle_Eye_View (10 Sep 2009)

the CF is also looking at replacing the current 1 piece flight suit for the cadpat 2 pieces flight suits only. We recieved a questionnaire about that and they want reasons why not to. I'm kind a fan of the 1 piece and wouldn't like to see it gone.


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## brihard (10 Sep 2009)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Hmm, your fearless, disco-loving, carbine-toting leader suggested to me they were - fortunately for all I didn't notice much enforcement of a variety of things there.  I sure was sporting a beard at the final parade at KAF.



I think I know the specific piece of kit you're talking about- the CP Gear OTW shirt. Sweat-wicking tshirt materialfor the torso, with CADPAT sleves and collar. It's something the Americans and Brits have already, and both CPGear and I think DropZone have produced CADPAT versions. It's designed to be worn under body armour.

There is an issued version in the works, and apparently there was a seacan full of commercial off the shelf ones in KAF being held for the summer tour (the people who made this particular decision obviously didn't leave the wire much) I've seen a CANLANDGEN that's essentially an omnibus update on new kit fielding for the land force, and it's one of the numerous items of kit coming down the pipe right now.

I know a number of guys who have the CPGear ones, they're great. I wore one for a few convoys before I got RSMed. I very much look forward to seeing them issued.


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## Sig_Des (10 Sep 2009)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I know a number of guys who have the CPGear ones, they're great. I wore one for a few convoys before I got RSMed. I very much look forward to seeing them issued.



Didn't realize you'd gotten RSMed over it. Shortly after you left it got passed down from TFK that we could use them OTW.


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## Arctic Acorn (12 Sep 2009)

Well, I hope while they're at it they will also look at updating the design of the combat shirts. Say what you will about the US ACU Pattern, the design of the US combat shirts certainly look well-designed.


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## X-mo-1979 (13 Sep 2009)

Teflon said:
			
		

> Son of a B***H!,  and here I just got my new CADPAT rain gear!



Quote of the night!

I want to go towards Bosnia uniforms circa 1993.Combat shorts and kiss t shirts.


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (13 Sep 2009)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Didn't realize you'd gotten RSMed over it. Shortly after you left it got passed down from TFK that we could use them OTW.



Gotta love it when policies change with the tides. Either the Comd or the RSM have to stop this nonsense once and for all. I wouldn't be surprised if the next roto gets the nay for X or Y kit when it was OK (and proven) with the previous roto. Personality = policy, it seems.


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## Arsenal (13 Sep 2009)

Good cadpat is so 2002 , I'm glad we are focusing our resources on projects like this! We are so ******* checked.
Personally I'd like us to go towards design 11, it says "hey girlfriend I'm ready for combat in todays modern trendy environment"


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## PuckChaser (15 Sep 2009)

Number 10 looks like good camoflauge for Halloween!! Blend in with all the pumpkins and leaves.


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## McG (15 Sep 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Gotta love it when policies change with the tides. Either the Comd or the RSM have to stop this nonsense once and for all. I wouldn't be surprised if the next roto gets the nay for X or Y kit when it was OK (and proven) with the previous roto. Personality = policy, it seems.


Would you prefer commanders be stripped of their autonomy and everything be dictated from Ottawa for the sake of continuity?  Or, would you prefer every CO be bound by the policies set by his predecessor (regardless of either's competency)?  Keep in mind that while the good policies may stick around longer, so will the policies that are no-longer-relevant, foolish, and/or dangerous.


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## brihard (15 Sep 2009)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Didn't realize you'd gotten RSMed over it. Shortly after you left it got passed down from TFK that we could use them OTW.



HAH! Go figure.

It did find its way back to you, right? I left it with the Sigs dudes in KAF with your name and unit.


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (16 Sep 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> Would you prefer commanders be stripped of their autonomy and everything be dictated from Ottawa for the sake of continuity?  Or, would you prefer every CO be bound by the policies set by his predecessor (regardless of either's competency)?  Keep in mind that while the good policies may stick around longer, so will the policies that are no-longer-relevant, foolish, and/or dangerous.



I hear ya. I believe in mission command wholeheartedly, but I get the sense that some RSMs especially (being the main arbiters of dress and deportment) seem to change operational dress standards on a whim, often blatantly ignoring logic, common sense and empirical evidence. Now, once the CLS (in the case of the tac vest rectification directive recently issued, for example) and/or new kit is officially issued, this is Ottawa's trump card. Anyways, off topic, but I am curious as to the seemingly arbitrary ways in which operational clothing/kit (mainly non-issued but proven in combat) get turned on and off at the whim of one or two individuals (and yes, after numerous tours and AARs/lessons learned reports on kit - there should be some continuity to policies on proven items regardless of personalities - or at least have a very good reason to go all RSM on someone).


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## Pointer (17 Sep 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> I hear ya. I believe in mission command wholeheartedly, but I get the sense that some RSMs especially (being the main arbiters of dress and deportment) seem to change operational dress standards on a whim, often blatantly ignoring logic, common sense and empirical evidence. Now, once the CLS (in the case of the tac vest rectification directive recently issued, for example) and/or new kit is officially issued, this is Ottawa's trump card. Anyways, off topic, but I am curious as to the seemingly arbitrary ways in which operational clothing/kit (mainly non-issued but proven in combat) get turned on and off at the whim of one or two individuals (and yes, after numerous tours and AARs/lessons learned reports on kit - there should be some continuity to policies on proven items regardless of personalities - or at least have a very good reason to go all RSM on someone).



Yes, the "yes-no-yes-no-maybe-no-yes-no" flip-flopping with RSMs is obnoxious... and potentially expensive.


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## Sig_Des (18 Sep 2009)

Brihard said:
			
		

> HAH! Go figure.
> 
> It did find its way back to you, right? I left it with the Sigs dudes in KAF with your name and unit.



Yeah, I got it back man, thanks.


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## stuter (5 Oct 2009)

why the f*ck would they replace cadpat, it works wonders for me when im stalking as enemy force, if we end up with some stupid universal camo im gonna be pissed I like my cadpat


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## McG (5 Oct 2009)

stuter said:
			
		

> why the f*ck would they replace cadpat, it works wonders for me when im stalking as enemy force, if we end up with some stupid universal camo im gonna be pissed I like my cadpat


You didn't bother to read the whole way through did you?

It's like this - various allied nations conduct & share the knowledge from defence research (even the US cannot afford to do it all alone).  Some countries/research establishments excel in certain areas.  If you have something to share then other nations will be willing to give some access to the pot of knowledge they hold.

Amongst other things, DRDC Valcartier is a world leader in camouflage & deception S&T.  This is not about replacing CADPAT so much as keeping us ahead of the pack in a particular area.  Investing in what we have to offer, so that we might get a look at what others have.


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## Loachman (5 Oct 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> You didn't bother to read the whole way through did you?



In particular, Mr stuter, pay attention to Reply No 15.

And please capitalize and punctuate properly, in keeping with the classy and professional forum which we are trying to run here.


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## Bruce Williams (20 Oct 2009)

Don't expect anything new in a hurry. We wore green combat for 30+ years.

They tried all sorts of camo patterns before CADPAT was adopted and issued. They even made some camo combat that ended up IRC in Tanzania. Imagine if you will, shirts with pockets for an FN C1 20 round magazine and a soldier armed with an AK47!


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## Fusaki (20 Oct 2009)

> Imagine if you will, shirts with pockets for an FN C1 20 round magazine and a soldier armed with an AK47!



I can imagine shirts with pockets for an FN C1 20 round magazine and a soldier armed with a C7...


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## daftandbarmy (21 Oct 2009)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> I can imagine shirts with pockets for an FN C1 20 round magazine and a soldier armed with a C7...



Or boots designed for cold weather that slip on icy surfaces.. oh, the irony, Shakespeare would be pleased.


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## Loachman (21 Oct 2009)

Bruce Williams said:
			
		

> Don't expect anything new in a hurry.



We're not.

Did *you* read the whole thread, especially Reply No 15?


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## Bruce Williams (25 Oct 2009)

Did *you* read the whole thread, especially Reply No 15?
[/quote]

Yes. My point is that this is nothing new. They probably said the same thing in Roman Days about changes in equiptment.


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## X-mo-1979 (25 Oct 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Or boots designed for cold weather that slip on icy surfaces.. oh, the irony, Shakespeare would be pleased.



That cracked me up man


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