# Bringing a laptop along



## kelly874 (26 Sep 2005)

Just wondering if any navy guys can answer this question for me - is it allowable to bring a laptop computer on board with you, and if so, does anyone do it?  Thanks.


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## Ex-Dragoon (26 Sep 2005)

Depends on your ship policies,_ if _ you are allowed you would have to register it with the Coxn, but gawd forbid you have anything questionable on it.....


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## kelly874 (27 Sep 2005)

I see.  Thanks.


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## Navalsnpr (30 Sep 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Depends on your ship policies,_ if _ you are allowed you would have to register it with the Coxn, but gawd forbid you have anything questionable on it.....



As well, you should have it registered through Canada Customs so they don't try and ding you with taxes after a trip.... or bring the original receipt with you.


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## Gramps (30 Sep 2005)

For the customs issue, all you need is a Y38 card. Customs will stamp the card and record the serial number, any customs office will have these. It is also good if you travel with a camera or any other electronic devices.


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## Cloud Cover (2 Oct 2005)

Going to dig around in my notes for the source on this, but I know for a fact there are published public results of detection and cross matched DF'ing of Bluetooth transmissions [nominal effective range of +/- 10 meters] sensed and identified to specific cataloged emitter devices at ranges greater than 60 nautical miles* from 0- 26,000 ft. s.l., clear environment. 

Can't imagine the consequences should an Ex or something worse be blown because somebody fired up their snazzy laptop to work on their book or journal. 


* thats well within Harpoon range - originals, copies and knock offs of which form the most prolific Naval SSM at the present time.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (2 Oct 2005)

Whiskey, I can't wait untill you start speaking English...


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## Kat Stevens (2 Oct 2005)

DFing is a baaaad thing. In the engineers, DFers get sent to 4 ESR....


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## Inch (3 Oct 2005)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> Going to dig around in my notes for the source on this, but I know for a fact there are published public results of detection and cross matched DF'ing of Bluetooth transmissions [nominal effective range of +/- 10 meters] sensed and identified to specific cataloged emitter devices at ranges greater than 60 nautical miles* from 0- 26,000 ft. s.l., clear environment.
> 
> Can't imagine the consequences should an Ex or something worse be blown because somebody fired up their snazzy laptop to work on their book or journal.
> 
> ...



It can't be any worse than the TACAN, Radar, or IFF/Transponder we have on the Sea King.

Seriously though, I don't recall if there was a rule stating that any wireless options are to be disabled. 

Question, was the DF'ing done on a Bluetooth adapter that was 3 decks down right on the waterline in a steel ship? I would tend to think that most RF transmissions would be blocked by the steel bulkheads and the only real threat would be if buddy was on the upper decks with it during an exercise instead of being at action stations where he should be.


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## Ex-Dragoon (3 Oct 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> It can't be any worse than the TACAN, Radar, or IFF/Transponder we have on the Sea King.
> 
> Seriously though, I don't recall if there was a rule stating that any wireless options are to be disabled.
> 
> Question, was the DF'ing done on a Bluetooth adapter that was 3 decks down right on the waterline in a steel ship? I would tend to think that most RF transmissions would be blocked by the steel bulkheads and the only real threat would be if buddy was on the upper decks with it during an exercise instead of being at action stations where he should be.



With emissions being able to be picked up more easily with todays technology and no doubt even easier with tomorrows do we really want to take that chance?


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## Monsoon (3 Oct 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> With emissions being able to be picked up more easily with todays technology and no doubt even easier with tomorrows do we really want to take that chance?


I'm told the US Navy has WIFI deployed onboard some of its ships (CVNs, from what I heard).  Obviously it would be the first thing to go down under an EMCON policy, but apparently the hull and emissions-inhibiting paint are enough to mitigate the security concerns.  Does anyone know any more about this?


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## Ex-Dragoon (3 Oct 2005)

Still the best bet is to clear it with your Cox'n.


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## Inch (3 Oct 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> With emissions being able to be picked up more easily with todays technology and no doubt even easier with tomorrows do we really want to take that chance?



Depends on what you're hiding from. 

Being completely Emcon free isn't going to stop aircraft from OTHT, especially if whatever targeting you is outside SOR. Oh the advantages that altitude brings!

I don't know off hand the Navy's official policy on it, but it seems to me that it would be quite difficult to hide all noise whether it be sonic or RF, maybe the Victorias can be totally silent but they're designed for that, I have my doubts that the 330s can and certainly not the 280s.

In any case, the CCR is where you register all electronic devices, everything from MP3 players to Laptop computers and if they say you can't use it for one reason or another, you can't use it. End of story.


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## NCRCrow (7 Oct 2005)

http://www.cse.dnd.ca/en/documents/publications/gov_pubs/itsb/itsb02.pdf

Check it out! I do not know the answer with Bluetooth. I do not understand why you would want it at sea?

Our biggest OPSEC concern is from our own troops and the SHF and Email.


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## Imprezzed (15 Oct 2005)

802.11b Signals will not go through a Ship's hull.   

There is no specific requirements as of yet to have a wireless feature disabled.

It varies from ship to ship, check with your supervisor who will run it by the cox'n. I've had mine on a couple of ships, just has to be registered.

As for bluetooth, I doubt bluetooth signals would go through a ship's hull as well.

Edit: Having a laptop at sea is a great idea. Especially if you're a 1 in 2 watchkeeper. It gives you something to do when you don't have enough time for a llegitimatenap before going back on watch. (IE Battle Problem, Cleaning Stations, etc.) Just make sure it's secured, and is password protected. You cannot also move things between DIN workstations on board and your laptop. And Don't even THINK about having USB Drives....


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## Navalsnpr (15 Oct 2005)

Speak with the ISSO onboard. They will be able to tell you what the regulations are or contact a higher authority to inquire.


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## geo (15 Oct 2005)

Imprezzed said:
			
		

> You cannot also move things between DIN workstations on board and your laptop. And Don't even THINK about having USB Drives....


Ah yes, the dastardly "flash" memory sticks....... if anything can give the unit / ship's security officer going - that's it. 
So much more data capacity, sooooo sonvenient..... sooooo easy to misplace / get stolen.


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## who980 (6 Jan 2006)

On all the ships I have been on, it has never been a problem to bring a laptop.  Your laptop will be registered with the CCR - at one point in time we checked to make sure that your laptop had the lastest virus updates on it but as of a while ago we've pretty much tightened the noose on transferring data between civillian computers and DND computers.

Only approved memory sticks will be used on DND computers - that is to say - no personal memory sticks - on my ship if you use your personal memory stick and we find out, it becomes our property.

This goes for MP3 players and PDA's as well!  

Registering your equipment with the Coxn is a good idea as well - On long ops/exercises especially where you'll be outside Canadian waters - the Coxn will have a book where you will log all your personal goodies by serial number.

There is also a policy stated in Ships Standing Orders with regards to using headphones onboard with your laptop / MP3 player - that is, you're to use them at a low volume and to have them covering one ear so you can hear any emergency pipes.

When you join a ship,it is a requirement that you read Information Systems Security Orders!!! 

Any questions about the above can be answered by your friendy CCR staff!

Ryan


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## CF-22 Raptor (16 Jan 2006)

I have a few questions about computers and electronics on Canadian ships...

I was wondering what kind of computers Canadian warships use. Do you guys only have computers hardwired to the ship? Or do you use PCs and Laptops? What are they used for? Are the computers fast and efficient enough to perform operations?

How fast is the ships computer processor? How much RAM does it have? How big is the hard drive? What OS does it use? How is it similar or different from a normal civilian PC? What is it's graphic user interface like? Is the computer easy to use? Any bugs or annoying things about the computer or software?

Why are non DND USB keys a big no, no? What sort of information are inside them?  Do the ship computers even have USB ports?

What is the big deal with bringing your own laptop / cellphones / PDAs and why would Customs tax you for it?


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## Inch (16 Jan 2006)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> I have a few questions about computers and electronics on Canadian ships...
> 
> I was wondering what kind of computers Canadian warships use. Do you guys only have computers hardwired to the ship? Or do you use PCs and Laptops? What are they used for? Are the computers fast and efficient enough to perform operations?
> 
> ...



Holy OPSEC Batman! 

Raptor, why do you want to know all this? Logic and common sense would tell me that most of the info you asked for is probably classified to some extent.

I will comment on the USB Key though, they're not permitted because the DWAN is a secure network and any portable media (ie USB keys or disks) can be used to take info from the network, thus, only DND issued media is permitted to be plugged into DND computers. If you use your own USB key, it can and most likely will be confiscated.

There is no big deal with bringing laptops or cell phones or anything thing else electronic, there are however rules that govern when you use it for obvious operational and security reasons. The Customs problem has more to do with the fact that they don't know whether or not you've had that computer for a while or if you've bought it in the last port which would mean it's subject to duty charges.


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## CF-22 Raptor (16 Jan 2006)

Why would I want to know all this? Not really sure, was just wondering how military computers compare to civilian ones. It would be intersting to know how many gigahertz the HMCS Toronto has etc etc. 

Not sure if the answer to this question is classified or not: Why do you guys use trackballs as a pointing device instead of a mouse? Isn't it more clumbesome?

Oh yeah, so it's a myth that wi-fi or wireless signals broadcasted from laptops or personal electronics would be detectable by enemy ships and missiles right?


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## Sheerin (16 Jan 2006)

> Not sure if the answer to this question is classified or not: Why do you guys use trackballs as a pointing device instead of a mouse? Isn't it more clumbesome?



I'm not in the navy - but will be applying in the near future...
but my guess on that would be that a trackball is built into the console and therefore during heavy seas or whatever it won't go flying, whereas a mouse is not exactly secured to the table and will go flying in situations like that.

Sounds logical to me, but is that really the reason?  lol

Okay I'll go back to my usual lurking


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## George Wallace (16 Jan 2006)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> Why would I want to know all this? Not really sure, was just wondering how military computers compare to civilian ones. It would be intersting to know how many gigahertz the HMCS Toronto has etc etc.
> 
> Not sure if the answer to this question is classified or not: Why do you guys use trackballs as a pointing device instead of a mouse? Isn't it more clumbesome?
> 
> Oh yeah, so it's a myth that wi-fi or wireless signals broadcasted from laptops or personal electronics would be detectable by enemy ships and missiles right?


Your insistence to get this information, which is probably on the "Need to Know" basis and you are not fitting that description, makes me wonder what "Agency" you work for?  I was already strongly "hinted" to you that you have 'no need to know' and a review of some of your posts has me wondering who or what you are?   
 ;D


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## who980 (16 Jan 2006)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> I have a few questions about computers and electronics on Canadian ships...
> 
> I was wondering what kind of computers Canadian warships use. Do you guys only have computers hardwired to the ship? Or do you use PCs and Laptops? What are they used for? Are the computers fast and efficient enough to perform operations?
> 
> ...



Here is a link that might be of some interest to you regarding some of the combat computer systems we use on board:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/halifax/

We also have a couple computer networks onboard which use off the shelf network technology and off the shelf laptops.  This information is not OPSEC.  Now if we were talking about the information thats passed over these computer networks, that would be opsec 

With regard to the USB sticks and DWAN - for one DWAN is an unclassified network - its just the Defense Intranet - the big issue is with viruses being taken from your home computer and brought onto a DWAN workstation.  This is a big headache - so if you have the need for a USB stick (ie: if you're a supervisor) you will be issued one by the CSA and must be used on DWAN WORKSTATIONS ONLY.

Ryan


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## CF-22 Raptor (16 Jan 2006)

Thanks for your input everybody, and Ryan, your article was an intersting read. It reminded me of the time I got the chance to visit the Toronto in '05. Do you navy people feel comfortable using the trackball mouse and computers?  



> Your insistence to get this information, which is probably on the "Need to Know" basis and you are not fitting that description, makes me wonder what "Agency" you work for?  I was already strongly "hinted" to you that you have 'no need to know' and a review of some of your posts has me wondering who or what you are?



Actually I am thinking about joining the army reserve as an Int Op next year and hope to stay there for the duration of my university education. And after 10 years in the workforce, I hope to join CSIS as a programmer. Hmm CSIS...Canadian Security Intelligence Service...quite a mouthfull, wouldn't the CIA - Canadian Intelligence Agency sound a LOT better?


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## geo (17 Jan 2006)

Most Int units grow from personnel remustering to the Int trade... 
As a recruit - not sure you can get there from here.... 
You might take a look at a Field Engineer qualification before going Int. A lot of the training and knowledge will come in handy.


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## CF-22 Raptor (17 Jan 2006)

Ok, so do you think it's not realistic for someone like me to jump straight into int op and should get into another trade before transfering?


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## combatcamera (17 Jan 2006)

Back to the original question, and I'll try and answer some other ones too.  When we deploy with the Navy we bring laptops along, Powerbooks in our case, and use the DWAN computers on-board to transmit our photos back to Canada.  Each ship is slightly different, and there are limits as to how big your e-mail files can be when sending attachments.  For us in August on WINNIPEG in the Gulf our limit was 2MB.  That's enough to send some of our biggest JPEG files.  I think for Joe-sailor the limit was 1MB - still lots.  The system on-board was fast and we never had any problems sending imagery.  One thing all ships are big on is security for operations.  For this reason all e-mail goes through the DWAN.  You can't use a personal Hotmail or YAHOO account (at least not when I was on WINNIPEG recently), though you can send to them no problem and vice-versa to DWAN.

In regards to the WiFi - we have Airport wireless on our Mac Powerbooks.  In all honesty, I can say I've only used it once on the road to communicate between our equipment - and that was as an experiment.  I can't see why you would want (or need) to use this on a warship?  Stick to using it at the airport when you're waiting for your flight, or at the Starbuck's having a double-latte.  Oh yeah, the mouse - I use one all the time. 

You can see a gallery of images from  HMCS WINNIPEG here under HMCS WINNIPEG - OPERATION ALTAIR: http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/common/combatcamera/galleries_e.htm


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## Neill McKay (17 Jan 2006)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> Ok, so do you think it's not realistic for someone like me to jump straight into int op and should get into another trade before transfering?



That would be a good question for your recruiter (or perhaps the Recruiting forum?).  I believe one of the members here is actually a recruiter.


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## CallOfDuty (17 Jan 2006)

..you can get into reserve Int as a recruit, just not into reg force Int without remustering from another trade.  The reg force Int guys are really looking for reserve guys to come on board.  If you want to get into reg force int, the quickest way would probably be to go reserves first then CT into the regs.  
   During my small stint in reserve Int, they were saying that they were combining training and courses and making them shorter so the army could have fully trained Int reservists to be ready to go full time sooner.
Cheers


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## CF-22 Raptor (17 Jan 2006)

Intersting, thanks for your input everybody. Combatcamera, did you shoot any of those HMCS Winnipeg videos?


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## combatcamera (19 Jan 2006)

I did all the stills - Sgt Alain Martineau did all the video.  A lot of it was edited on our Powerbooks while we were onboard WINNIPEG.


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