# New CADPAT Cbt Gloves



## TCBF (26 Feb 2006)

So, after almost three decades, the old black and green outer/liner cbt gloves have been turned in, and I now have the new CADPAT Gloves.  I found immediately that the seams are all wrong on the middle two fingers, and the two seams which should be at the sides/tops of your fingers are actually closer to the palms/bottoms, thus, any dexterity on the tips of your fingers is lost.  You don't feel the surface the gloves are touching, only the seams of the glove fingers.

I thought they may have gone light on the specs at the factory (who checks theses days?), so I looked at them and I think they may be sewing the fingers onto the gloves upside down.

Just for a laugh, I turned them inside out, and tried them on - WORKS GREAT.

This is the only piece of kit I have been issued in 30 years that works/feels better inside out.

But, hey, what's fifty bucks to the taxpayer, right?

Tom


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## armyvern (26 Feb 2006)

TCBF,

Take them back to clothing and try another pair. It is entirely possible that you did get a pair with the a couple on fingers on upside down.

Manufacturer's defects do indeed happen in the CF as well. Items are spot checked only; each and every single one is not inspected, and perhaps your pair were obviously not.

Out of 3652 ICE jackets (all brand new still in the bags from the manufacturer) that we issued out here in Gagetown last week, I've got 3 rejects:

1 had no zipper in the front to do it up;
1 had no velcro on it for the name tag; and
1 had no velcro on the back where the hood tucks in.

$50.00 bucks to the tax-payer? I think that the .08 % reject rate above proves that it is much more cost-effective in the long run to spot-check items only. Or else we could pay 20-30 more pers to sit in Depots all day doing nothing except inspecting each and every single little item that comes into the CF's Supply system. 

Your gloves? They'll get written off as scrap because it's more cost-effective. The 3 jackets above? Returned at the manufacturer's expense (via courier) for repair and return into the Supply system.


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## ZipperHead (26 Feb 2006)

I normally don't respond to polls (unless I get something in return - call me greedy), but I actually like the new glove. My caveat is that I wear a polypro liner with them (bought at Mountain Eqpt Coop). I'll have to take a boo at mine to see if they are "wrong".

I have had issue with how long it has taken for some of the CTS items to get down to the soldiers (the ICE jacket comes to mind - I did NOT like wearing my jacket until it was almost worn out completely (elbow patch ripped off, holes, collar thread bare) and seeing field unit's soldiers (albeit ones not on deployment) getting them MANY months (over a year in cases) ahead of lowly School pers (and 2 RCR!!!), but I suppose when you think about it, sometime it is better to wait out the hiccups that occur, and then get a better product in the long run. I'm not an insider into how long it takes a factory to produce the number's that we are talking about here (20-30 thousand?? Vern, help me here!!), but it does seem that either the quality suffers (2 of the 3 initial run of CADPAT pants I was issued in 2002 didn't survive their first trip through my washing machine!!!!) or they take in inordinate length of time to get to the supply depots. Ideally, they would be fast and high quality, but sometimes those two things are mutually exclusive.

Al


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## buzgo (26 Feb 2006)

They seem okay, but the mortar gloves (if you can get them) are a lot better, IMO.

What we really need is a winter glove that isn't too restrictive or bulky. I usually wear black Auclair XC ski gloves. OR makes nice gloves too, if you work in a place that will let you get away with wearing them


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## MikeM (26 Feb 2006)

I don't mind the new leather CBT glove, I agree there is a bit of an issue with dexterity, but for the most part they aren't too bad. 

+1 to Signalsguy, the mortar glove is a good piece of kit.


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

while the Cadpat gloves are good to go - have some serious doubts about using em for Rapelling. You could do that with the old ones. When I brought up that point with the Supp Tech, he reluctantly agreed with me (and allowed me to keep my old gloves )


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

signalsguy said:
			
		

> They seem okay, but the mortar gloves (if you can get them) are a lot better, IMO.
> 
> What we really need is a winter glove that isn't too restrictive or bulky.


while in Garrison, I find the Mortar gloves great - even in winter
in the field.... the gauntlet style gloves we got are just fine - no complaints from this end.


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## ZipperHead (26 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> while the Cadpat gloves are good to go - have some serious doubts about using em for Rapelling. You could do that with the old ones. When I brought up that point with the Supp Tech, he reluctantly agreed with me (and allowed me to keep my old gloves )



Are there not gloves in the system specifically for rapelling? I vaguely recall seeing some once whilst rapelling, but no doubt they were just a style of glove that had been used to minimize on damage to the combat gloves (these were pretty heavy duty gloves, almost like welders gloves, with a reinforced palm). I think that we can all agree that we don't need any more gloves issued, but no one glove can try to do it all (the goretex glove tried, and failed, IMO).


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

Allan = 100% agree - we don't need more gloves BUT
if you are in a Cbt arms unit, you come across a rock face & need/want to rappel, it's not time to make a stores request, issue new gloves to the troops for the task ... and then bring em back in... it's not practical.

Wire gloves are task specific - you don't need em all the time and not everyone needs em at the best / worst of times.... but if your mission requires you to go in the field... then everyone should have a "good pair of gloves" for all or most occasions.


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## fourninerzero (26 Feb 2006)

I am not a big fan of the new leather cadpat gloves, I find they lack dexterity, as well as I cant fit a liner under them. The mortar glove though, its like the southbound end of a northbound cat. they feel like a winter weight flight glove, and work really well. Grippy leather palm, Relativly warm, lots of dexterity and comfort.

just my $.02


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## ZipperHead (26 Feb 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Allan = 100% agree - we don't need more gloves BUT
> if you are in a Cbt arms unit, you come across a rock face & need/want to rappel, it's not time to make a stores request, issue new gloves to the troops for the task ... and then bring em back in... it's not practical.
> 
> Wire gloves are task specific - you don't need em all the time and not everyone needs em at the best / worst of times.... but if your mission requires you to go in the field... then everyone should have a "good pair of gloves" for all or most occasions.



I definitely agree ref needing a glove that can handle any task, but my point was that if you are doing copious amounts of rapelling, use the task specific glove. If it's a one off thing, the glove that's issued needs to be up to it for at least one go. The goretex glove, at least in it's initial config (OD green) was a POS, as it couldn't stand up to even minor labour. I ripped them to shreads pulling small brush out of the ground on exercise (to clear a spot for our 4 man sponge, errr, tent - now that is a piece of gear in need of updating). 

From my initials observation of the CADPAT glove, it SEEMS to be up to minor labour tasks, but I definitely wouldn't do heavy maintenance, handle wire or cabling, etc with it. That's what work gloves are for, but again, how many pairs of gloves can a soldier carry. You'd need a day pack just to carry your gloves if we keep 'em coming! But I'm not one to turn down kit, as it's better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Al


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

T'is true, not everyone is required to do rappel on an ongoing basis or get stuck having to do rope work at a moment's notice... I just found that the old combat glove was relatively good at most tasks (excellent in none) rugged enough to be used for rappel, cat wire, concertina (in a pinch) and pretty much anything else you might think to throw at it.... just feel that it's a step back in some ways.


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## George Wallace (26 Feb 2006)

Geo

If I was to come across a rock face to rappel down, I would still have to indent for some rope, as I don't usually carry 100 m, or more, of rope on me for just those occassions.  That being the case, as with Wire, I would then have the opportunity to indent for the proper gloves also.


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## ZipperHead (26 Feb 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Geo
> 
> If I was to come across a rock face to rappel down, I would still have to indent for some rope, as I don't usually carry 100 m, or more, of rope on me for just those occassions.  That being the case, as with Wire, I would then have the opportunity to indent for the proper gloves also.



Touche. Now why didn't I think of that?!?!


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## geo (26 Feb 2006)

hehe.... but as sappers, climbing all over bridges & structures of all kinds.... with rope in industrial quantities in our SEVs..... we do.... and it's better to have your own gloves in pocket than gloves in a storage box.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Feb 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> This is the only piece of kit I have been issued in 30 years that works/feels better inside out.



I found the storage bag for the self-inflating mattress worked better inside out.  The outside had a smooth texture and the inside had a tacky-rubbery feel which made it hard to slide the mattress inside.

Hmm....after reading the whole thread, I wonder if mine was a manufacturer's defect too....seemed to be backwards.


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## geo (27 Feb 2006)

Yup Michael..... you should ask for a new one
(sell the "one of" on ebay (JK) )


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## armyvern (27 Feb 2006)

2RCR also brought up the issue of the new cadpat gloves not being up to the rapelling task. The response from Ottawa? What exactly is 2RCR purchasing with the funds that are alotted to their Unit each year to buy the task-specific gloves for their troops with then?

Units required to wire-handle, rappel etc are indeed receiving the funding which is specific to purchase these. Ie roper gloves for the Hel Ots pers, dvr gloves, diving gloves, rapelling gloves, wire-handling gloves etc etc.

Your first line Unit QM (not clothing stores) pers should be purchasing these task-specific items for you. Much as the Unit QM issues all Mortar Det pers with their 2nd pair of mortar gloves specific to that job.


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## geo (27 Feb 2006)

I don't dissagree that unit QM should stock task specific gear of all kind BUT, to withdraw a good robust glove like the old combat glove and replace it with one that is, in some respects, inferior, is counter productive..... because everyone will tell you 
"but we were always able to do it with the old ones" AND /OR
"why do with two what you can do with one"


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## Armymedic (27 Feb 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> 2RCR also brought up the issue of the new cadpat gloves not being up to the rapelling task. The response from Ottawa? What exactly is 2RCR purchasing with the funds that are alotted to their Unit each year to buy the task-specific gloves for their troops with then?
> 
> Units required to wire-handle, rappel etc are indeed receiving the funding which is specific to purchase these. Ie roper gloves for the Hel Ots pers, dvr gloves, diving gloves, rapelling gloves, wire-handling gloves etc etc.
> 
> Your first line Unit QM (not clothing stores) pers should be purchasing these task-specific items for you. Much as the Unit QM issues all Mortar Det pers with their 2nd pair of mortar gloves specific to that job.



Nothing personal, vern, but seeing how your the SME in the area....
While this way of procurement may be financially prudent, that is just wrong on so many levels. Why can't every soldier have this kit...why can say 3 RCR buy gloves and have them, but 1 and 2 RCR do not? This is one of those non unit specific tasks that every field unit who may provide some sort of difficult terrain capability should have. 

Does this mean if 2 Fd Amb doesn't deem it req'd to issue a specific type of kit (like rappel gloves) medics can't get them?


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## Armymedic (27 Feb 2006)

BTW, I really like the new CADPAT cbt glove for what it is made for. I find the dexterity fairly good, and they fit excellently.


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## TCBF (27 Feb 2006)

Since I only have one pair (at a time) to trial, do you not find the finger seams interfere between the pads of you fingertips and the surface you are touching?

Tom


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## Steve031 (28 Feb 2006)

I completed my basic mountain ops course using the CADPAT gloves throughout.  No problems at all, and I did numerous rappeling descents from 200 metres as well as climbing and various other rope related tasks.  Dexterity was fine, even with a liner glove beneath them.  Good piece of kit in my opinion.


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## geo (28 Feb 2006)

Interesting. I had taken a shine to the Mortar gloves
The feel of the Cadpat gloves just didn't "feel" tough enough to survive the stresses of repeated Rappels. Guess I'm going to have to give these puppies a second look.


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## armyvern (4 Mar 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Nothing personal, vern, but seeing how your the SME in the area....
> While this way of procurement may be financially prudent, that is just wrong on so many levels. Why can't every soldier have this kit...why can say 3 RCR buy gloves and have them, but 1 and 2 RCR do not? This is one of those non unit specific tasks that every field unit who may provide some sort of difficult terrain capability should have.
> 
> Does this mean if 2 Fd Amb doesn't deem it req'd to issue a specific type of kit (like rappel gloves) medics can't get them?


I know what you mean Armymedic. You will recall the days of when the budgets were centralized and we bought everything for everyone. Then specific Units decided that they wanted specific things instead of what everyone else got because they had 'different' jobs to do than everyone else and thought they could manage their monies better. Budgets were then de-centralized and Units received their own budgets for their 'specialized' needs. So, now the Units having the responsibility to purchase those 'specialized requirements' and the funding to do it with, and if they're not...I can't explain it. Perhaps the specific "unit" has found something they'd rather spend the monies on?

Edited to add: 2RCR did go out and buy their rapelling gloves.


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## Pte.Shrubb (5 Mar 2006)

I find the gloves arent very warm but they are pretty good for shooting, jus my opinion


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## geo (5 Mar 2006)

gloves aren't lined.
Aren't designed to be "warm"  try using a liner
otherwise
Get your hands (pun) on some of the new Mortar Goves.


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## scaddie (5 Mar 2006)

I was always told that these gloves were not to be used for rappelling. The instructions that came with basically imply that they're not to be used for much more than light duties. I think they're alright, but we need a glove with more insulation that also provides dexterity. My favorite gloves are still my Thinsulate driving gloves,  they're cheap, and better than any of the issued pairs.


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## hedgehogrgc (24 Apr 2006)

Those gloves are good for RSM's parades and for what they were intended for, as weapons handling gloves. They serve their purpose beautifully provided you get a tight fitting set. If you do like some people do and get a larger size they are useless. and dont ever try and work in them( as directed) or your hands will come out badly beaten    ( like mine did while digging in).


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## Scoobie Newbie (24 Apr 2006)

Are you saying that had you not used the gloves your hands would have been better off?


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