# im getting released...



## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

first things first. 

HELP!

I sign my cf 507 tomorrow


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## PteCamp (13 Apr 2005)

What's going on? Why are you releasing?


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

the reason im releasing is cause i was on C&P for tardiness and in feb i had was late for the field, on no fault of my own, and I was put on trial today and was guilty and so they started the release proceedings..


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## kincanucks (13 Apr 2005)

And so?


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## Marty (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> the reason im releasing is cause i was on C&P for tardiness and in feb i had was late for the field, on no fault of my own, and I was put on trial today and was guilty and so they started the release proceedings..



If you were late it is your fault


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## BernDawg (13 Apr 2005)

If you really want to put up a fight you could redress the findings of your summary trial.  I also suggest buying another alarm clock and putting on the other side of your bedroom.
Good Luck.


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## Tpr.Orange (13 Apr 2005)

Are you asking for help on how to meet your timings? or signing the release. If youve been found guilty and your not appealing, then there isn't much help for you from my point of view, the only advice i can give you is try not to be late when you need to sign the release.. ^-^


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> Are you asking for help on how to meet your timings? or signing the release. If youve been found guilty and your not appealing, then there isn't much help for you from my point of view, the only advice i can give you is try not to be late when you need to sign the release.. ^-^



i plan on appealing, and marty it was out of my hands, friends car broke down


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## Trinity (13 Apr 2005)

CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> Are you asking for help on how to meet your timings? or signing the release. If youve been found guilty and your not appealing, then there isn't much help for you from my point of view, the only advice i can give you is try not to be late when you need to sign the release.. ^-^



NAW... i'd be extra late..  let them charge you again... that way you stay in the system longer!

Find a PADRE... or Start an Appeal

There are 24 hour duty padres available... but don't call him/her too late.. they'll be very grumpy.....


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## Tpr.Orange (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> i plan on appealing, and marty it was out of my hands, friends car broke down



DID YOU CALL?


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

If you dont mind me asking, how many times were you AWOL "tardy"?, as well how long? i.e. from the time you were supposed to be at work 'till the time you sauntered in.


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## kincanucks (13 Apr 2005)

You don't get put on C&P because you didn't do anything wrong.  You were a problem and soon you will be gone.  Suck it up and move on.


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

i was late a few times, but I called in every time covering my sorry ass and CFN orange, it was when gs bn sup coy was going to the field and i called my whole CofC with all the way to the OC and no answer


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

kincanucks

they were scrapping the bottom of the barrel to release me and i appealed to dmcarm and they said for me to go on C&P


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

it was on ex frozen binrat


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

So you were late 3 times? Hardly seems grounds for C&P and dismissal, and the boot....how long were those "3" times? 5 min 1 hr ect?


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

they were like 5- 10 minutes, got 2 verbal warnings, 1 written so it added up ....

edit 
typing too fast for my own good lol


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

For the padre can he do anything?


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

If im not mistaken, isnt the next step after a "verbal" warning "recorded", that is if the member has another "incident"(within 6 months) involving the same circumstances stated in the original "verbal" warning. So...by my calculations, you must have been late probably _at least_ 3 times, charged once or twice then put on "verbal". Was late again, maybe charged again or put on recorded (that is if it happened within 6 months of when you signed the "verbal"). Then late again, and put on C&P, failed to correct your shortcummings and were late for an EX., while on C&P. Thats the picture I get, am i in the ballpark?


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## Veterans son (13 Apr 2005)

What is C&P? ???


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

today was my only charge of awol, never been charged with being late


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## BernDawg (13 Apr 2005)

Being late is AWOL!


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

C&P is the last administrative attempt at salvaging a member's career. It is normaly preceeded by verbal and recorded warnings but it does not have to be.   If you are on C&P and do the sae thing again, the CF has every right to relese you.   that is the established policy.   As a supervisor i have dealt with these types of cases a few times.

My guess is that there is more to your story than you are admiting, and i base that on experience, i case you are wondering.

You have options, talk to your CoC......

I had a section member who was constantly late for work a few years back...i hear he works at wal-mart now....always late !!

Good luck


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

i dont want to get out of the army, granted im not the fastest, keenest, or strongest soldier in the cf, i still try


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> i dont want to get out of the army, granted im not the fastest, keenest, or strongest soldier in the cf, i still try



I never said you should be out of the CF........if you survive this...you need to make some changes.  The easy part of being in the military is showing up on time !


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> today was my only charge of awol, never been charged with being late


Im sorry but, this doesnt make sense to this 03dumb, you have never been charged before today, yet they put you on verbal, recoded, and C&P prior to this charge?. Im not a AJAG, maybe you should contact them instead of an internet forum?, Just my humble opinion.


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

Blakey said:
			
		

> Im sorry but, this doesnt make sense to this 03dumb, you have never been charged before today, yet they put you on verbal, recoded, and C&P prior to this charge?. Im not a AJAG, maybe you should contact them instead of an internet forum?, Just my humble opinion.



dmcarm put me on C&P, cause i appealed my release last year


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

i wasnt put on C&P by the unit


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## the 48th regulator (13 Apr 2005)

> For the padre can he do anything?



how about pray for you?

Seems to me you need more than the great architect of the universe to sort out your tardy aise....

gotta be more to it than being late for an ex...

dileas

tess


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

AJAG shouldnt deal with C&P as it it Non-judicial, administrative punishement at the unit level...with DMCARM involvment in some cases.   You do not have to have been charged in order to end up on C&P


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> dmcarm put me on C&P, cause i appealed my release last year


What was that release for?, so they have tried to release you twice now?, Im confused.


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> gotta be more to it than being late for an ex...



Exactly what i said a few posts ago...we are only getting the "victim's" side of the story here   : so i am a little suspicious......again cause by lots of experience with young privates who got themselves in shit

Can i say shit without getting an army.ca verbal BTW ?


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

Blakey said:
			
		

> What was that release for?, so they have tried to release you twice now?, Im confused.



See what i mean ?  the plot thickens already !!  :


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Can i say shit without getting an army.ca verbal BTW ?


OMG! You said Shit.


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

Blakey said:
			
		

> OMG! You said Shit.



I know.......totaly unprofessional of me !!


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

They tried to release me last year with a 3f i think, it was cannot adapt to miltary life, I argued the fact and dmcarm sent me on c&p


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> They tried to release me last year with a 3f i think, it was cannot adapt to miltary life, I argued the fact and dmcarm sent me on c&p



So let me get this straight:

They try to release you for failiure to adapt, put you on C&P, you show up late for work ( which is failiure to adapt), get charged for AWOL.....and now you are wondering why they are giving you the boot ?

Have fun at wal-mart !


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

my car was in the shop, 
friends car broke down coming to pick me up
i phoned the entire fanout list up to the OC NO ONE ANSWERED THIER PHONE
I did get a hold of a civie at work and he didnt pass the message up the chain as there was noone at the company. I did get in after a hour and half


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> my car was in the shop,
> friends car broke down coming to pick me up
> i phoned the entire fanout list up to the OC NO ONE ANSWERED THIER PHONE
> I did get a hold of a civie at work and he didnt pass the message up the chain as there was noone at the company. I did get in after a hour and half



You are 1 GS BN right......ever heard of a Duty NCO or maybe the duty officer...i know you have one  :


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## Blakey (13 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> my car was in the shop,
> friends car broke down coming to pick me up
> i phoned the entire fanout list up to the OC NO ONE ANSWERED THIER PHONE
> I did get a hold of a civie at work and he didnt pass the message up the chain as there was noone at the company. I did get in after a hour and half


See, this is where it gets difficult, for me that is. You knew that your unit was deploying to the field, but your buddies car broke down and you tried to call your CofC on the fan out list *at home*, why would you do that? if it was me i would have thought, hmmm everyone else is probably on route to work as well, i better call the duty center or my bosses *work* locale.


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

like i said, there's always more to the story once you start digging !


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## the 48th regulator (13 Apr 2005)

hmmm

I do detect a bad smell...


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> hmmm
> 
> I do detect a bad smell...



 ;D


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## someguyincanada (13 Apr 2005)

i did call the duty nco and he said he would pass the message up and i did call all the numbers  at work only got a civie who didnt pass the message up


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2005)

Oh i see....first it was your buddy's fault you were late, now its the duty NCO's fault  :


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## Tpr.Orange (14 Apr 2005)

Has it ever occured to you that you might actually not be able to adapt to the military lifestyle?


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## KevinB (14 Apr 2005)

Okay, I am trying to piece this all together, bear with me.

Your CO tired to release you

DMCARM refused and had you placed on C&P (basically)

 You pooched the C&P - admittedly 
   Regardless of your excuses/reasoning - you where late.  Did your buddy testify that this was indeed the case? Was he/she charged too?

You have 14 days to file for a review of the trial, you can't redress Summary Trial or Court Martial verdits

Your CO is initialting release proceeding again?  

 You should get a period (14days) to file a representation to CO to try to talk him out of it.

   Your file should go back to DMCARM - and if they decide to release you, you should still get to submitt a representation to them.


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## Infanteer (15 Apr 2005)

Two words - Administrative Burden....


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## KevinB (15 Apr 2005)

I dont think that is a fair comment.  One can be construed an Admin burden for certain issues - but fighting ones release is not that.

 That said I think critical stupidity in a non stupid zone has definetly been infringed here (and trust me I got that T Shirt so I can compare...)


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## Trinity (15 Apr 2005)

Appeal.... and see the Chaplain

I stand by my original post.

He/she may not be able to save you.. but at least you'll 
feel better on the way out!  Give you a new perspective,
some guidance and some fresh thinking.


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## garb811 (15 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> my car was in the shop,
> friends car broke down coming to pick me up
> i phoned the entire fanout list up to the OC NO ONE ANSWERED THIER PHONE
> I did get a hold of a civie at work and he didnt pass the message up the chain as there was noone at the company. I did get in after a hour and half


Maybe it's just me but if I was already in trouble for being tardy and knew my career was on the line, once I got word from my buddy that his car had broken down my first phone call would be to a taxi company and I wouldn't care if it cost me $200.   

I'm truly sorry if you thought you would find sympathy here and are instead feeling attacked but in this instance, there is only one person to blame for your situation.   It appears you're about to pay the price for astoundingly ineffective problem solving, faulty decision making as well as what appears to be the inability to accept responsibility for your actions.   The fact that â Å“NO ONE ANSWERED THEIR PHONEâ ?, as you put it, does not mitigate the fact that you did not abide by the requirements of your C&P.   It's not your supervisor's job to sit by the phone waiting for you to call in that you will be late when they are getting ready to go on Ex, their job is to be down on the floor or in the compound, making sure that those who are able to meet their timings are ready to go.   On the other hand, it's your job to make every effort to meet the requirements of your C&P.   Showing up in   a cab 5 min after roll call might get you a break, rolling in when the rest of the Bn is already half way to Wainwright gets you to where you are now.


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## LowRider (15 Apr 2005)

Can anyone here give me time frame on how long it takes to process a release?


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## winchable (15 Apr 2005)

Not very long at all,
Alot of it's on you to make appointments to clear out of stores, have your meetings with the right people and sign the paperwork.
In the reserves you've got 5 (ish?) regular training nights once you start the process to return kit, turn in your id and officially clear out with the orderly....room..if it was an orderly it would be a mental hospital


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## someguyincanada (16 Apr 2005)

but i still tried, what do you want me to do, turn back time?


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## KevinB (17 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> but i still tried, what do you want me to do, turn back time?



No - but I would not expect you to whine on an open forum.  If you want help, and don't beleive you can get it from your unit there are a lot of people on this board with experience in Admin areas, a simple PM or thread asking a less description question might be the way to go about it.


Cheers


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## kitrad1 (17 Apr 2005)

I don't think that all of the facts are out but rather just one side of the story.

At any rate, you have received a lot of very good advice here, however, you continue to deflect responsibility for your own actions. I would guess that you probably received a lot of good advice in the past, when you had failed to meet previous timings. You did not heed the advice and counsel of others.

 It is the most elementary requirement of any employer...show up for work on time. As they say, "Timings are made to be met".

By the way, if memory serves me correctly, a 3B release is medical, isn't it?

If by some miracle, you are given a reprieve, hopefully you will learn from it once and for all. Apologies for sounding preachy, but ....


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## someguyincanada (20 Apr 2005)

its a 5f that they are releasing me under cannot adapt to military life


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## Diver Rob (24 Apr 2005)

You know .. having heard all of this, you would probably not have been thrown out of the mil if this had only happened once maybe even twice.  You must have pissed off some people at a pretty high level in the past.

Really don't know what to say at this point, except for the fact that this should be a valuable lesson learned.


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## MikeM (25 Apr 2005)

Edited because I didn't realize the other 3 pages of posting :'(

On the other hand... how did the release procedures go.. its almost 14 days after.. did you ask for a review?


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## someguyincanada (25 Apr 2005)

right now im in the process of redressing the CO's intent to reccomend release, also have contacted the omsbudman in the matter


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## COBRA-6 (25 Apr 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> its a 5f that they are releasing me under cannot adapt to military life



Well it's pretty clear that you can't, so what do you think should happen? It doesn't mean that you're a bad person, but some people are simply unsuited for military service, for one reason or another. This release is the result of a series of events, not a single incident or two... hence the progression through admin measures (from verbal, to recorded, to C&P) on to disciplinary action (charges). Being late one or twice is bad luck and/or poor planning, after that it's a trend...


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## Zoomie (26 Apr 2005)

You are going to want to nip this little problem of yours in the bud pretty darn quick.  This should be your daily priority - a 5F discharge is nothing to sneeze at.  If memory serves me correctly, I believe this discharge is final and also affects your ability to apply to any Government of Canada employment in the future. It could very well be that you can't stopped being discharged from the CF, at least try and do it administratively and not as a form of punishment.


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## TCBF (26 Apr 2005)

"cannot adapt to military life"

Sounds like a fairly apt description to me.   Turn the page and move on.


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## Neill McKay (26 Apr 2005)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> You are going to want to nip this little problem of yours in the bud pretty darn quick.   This should be your daily priority - a 5F discharge is nothing to sneeze at.   If memory serves me correctly, I believe this discharge is final and also affects your ability to apply to any Government of Canada employment in the future. It could very well be that you can't stopped being discharged from the CF, at least try and do it administratively and not as a form of punishment.



A 5F release (actually, any 5-series release) is an honourable release.   It may affect any future application to return to the Forces, but I don't believe it would interfere with any jobs elsewhere in the federal government that he may wish to pursue.

Disciplinary releases are the 1-series (Misconduct) and sometimes 2-series (Unsatisfactory Service).   For the whole story see QR&Os at http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol1/ch015_e.asp.


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## COBRA-6 (26 Apr 2005)

While 5 series releases are not dishonourable discharges, a 5f release means "unsuitable for future employment", which pretty much rules out getting a job down the road with any government department/agency, at the federal, provincial or municipal level... IIRC

It's what we threaten to release people under in the reserves when they stop parading and don't turn in their kit... it usually works...


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## kitrad1 (26 Apr 2005)

Although some might admire the fact that you are fighting using every means at your disposal, I'm not one of them. Essentially, you have refused to accept any responsibility for your actions despite repeated attempts to correct your shortcomings. In fact you have blamed everyone in your chain of command and then some. 

As someone posted, this doesn't mean that you are a bad person, but perhaps you ought to take some time and reflect on your situation. I don'tunderstand what you want...a fifth chance? 

Time to move on and chalk this one up to experience. Who knows, perhaps if you can demonstrate a greater sense of reliability over a sustained period of time, you might be looked at again for enrolment...but you will need to do some work. If you're not prepared to assume responsibility for your actions, you should be prepared for continued disappointment.


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## Neill McKay (27 Apr 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> While 5 series releases are not dishonourable discharges, a 5f release means "unsuitable for future employment", which pretty much rules out getting a job down the road with any government department/agency, at the federal, provincial or municipal level... IIRC



"Unsuitable for future employemt" means future employment in the Forces, not all future employment.  I've yet to apply for a job with any level of government and have them ask about my release item (and I have applied for jobs with all three levels of government since my release).  99 per cent of people from outside of the Forces wouldn't know a 1A from a 4C, and would probably never think to ask.  The term "Honourable Release" on a Certificate of Service would satisfy just about anyone who cared.

I was told the same thing about 5-series releases in Basic, and believed it at the time, but experience has shown it to be false.


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## childs56 (27 Apr 2005)

the old rule of not being hired on by the government municipal, provincial and federal have been abolished.  This isn't to say they wont choose some one else over you but they cannot say because of a 5f you cannot get a job. Not sure where the ref is for that but it did come out a few years ago. Personally you have little ability to control your own destiny, the military accepted you and gave you the "PRIVILAGE" to be a member. All they asked of you was to show up on time, don't do drugs and be in uniform. You failed one of these three things, not once or twice but three times.  my old civie job if you were late once they warned you and sent you home with out out pay, second time you went home for good with out pay. so I guess you were lucky. Very few people get kicked out of the military, it is one of the most lenient jobs you can ever have, i guess your privilege has been revoked. Carry on and use this as a learning experience , remember you gave a way a $4000 a month job for being late hopefully you and others have learnt a leasson. good luck in your future aspects.


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## samuel777 (21 May 2016)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> "Unsuitable for future employemt" means future employment in the Forces, not all future employment.  I've yet to apply for a job with any level of government and have them ask about my release item (and I have applied for jobs with all three levels of government since my release).  99 per cent of people from outside of the Forces wouldn't know a 1A from a 4C, and would probably never think to ask.  The term "Honourable Release" on a Certificate of Service would satisfy just about anyone who cared.
> 
> I was told the same thing about 5-series releases in Basic, and believed it at the time, but experience has shown it to be false.



Is 5f mentioned on that certificate of service??


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## brihard (21 May 2016)

samuel777 said:
			
		

> Is 5f mentioned on that certificate of service??



You realize the post you're replying to is less than a year short of its CD, right?


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## samuel777 (21 May 2016)

Yes I do, this time, still I though maybe somebody could answer that question, since any ex mil. should know...


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## mariomike (21 May 2016)

samuel777 said:
			
		

> Is 5f mentioned on that certificate of service??





			
				samuel777 said:
			
		

> Yes I do, this time, still I though maybe somebody could answer that question, since any ex mil. should know...



Four-pages of 5F discussion here ( if that is what you are looking for? ),

5F Release questions/answers (merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/102903.75


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## Bellerophon (25 May 2016)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> the reason im releasing is cause i was on C&P for tardiness and in feb i had was late for the field, on no fault of my own, and I was put on trial today and was guilty and so they started the release proceedings..



sorry bro... but to be honest and not to be an asshole, im sure there are more things you've done to push it to this point. You gotta sort yourself out, no one get released for being late a couple of times. I'll Believe a few extras, but you are on another level. my suggestion if you survive this is... stop pocking your head around, dont talk about anything or do anything. just dont draw attention to you. and just do everything you're told, is that simple.


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## brihard (25 May 2016)

Check the post date dute. He's probably been out for a decade.


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