# Am I too old, fat, or fit in?    2001 to 2016



## brad_dennis

Gentlemen; 

I have been reading the various postings on this site and I have been 
impressed with quality of the advice and dialogue that honest questions 
generate. As a non CF member I have a question and I‘m looking for some 
insight from those who have been there. Here it is. Please forgive the long 
winded preamble and naivety. 

I‘m 30 years old and have two degrees. I‘m looking for a career change. The 
decision to throw away 6 years of experience sitting behind a desk was not 
difficult. The "money" no longer appeals as each office job I have had was 
progressively sucking the life outta of me. Being a glorified secretary will 
do that. I was going to join the army as field engineer, however I have been 
advised by my brother who is a captain in the reserves that I should go 
officer if I wish a career and motivation The only position that really 
appeals is infantry as not having a tech degree disqualifies me from 
engineer officer. Armor does not appeal nor do other "non-combatant" 
positions. 

Physically I have no problem with the demands of the courses, I‘m just as 
fit as a 20 year old, I look 25, I‘m single with no dependants and have 
already left the office environment to work in construction as in my younger 
years this was favorite job. My CF application is in progress. And I have 
until mid-sept to decided to be tested for officer or NCO. 

I‘m concerned that my age will be a hindrance to cohesion within my unit and 
career path. Officially I understand that under the Canadian charter of 
rights and freedoms I cannot be discriminated based on my age. This is the 
"official" line what is the unofficial one? Do you think I will have 
problems? What would they be? I have been briefed by various people that 
being in the infantry is tough on the body, could it be worse than working 
as a construction grunt? 

Your advice would be very helpful. Thanks very much. 

PS - I know that throwing away a cushy office job making 60K is general 
stupidity, but it‘s not about the money, it‘s about living the life that 
makes one happy.


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## towhey

Go for it!

No doubt, you will be one of the "old men" on infantry officer phase training.  However, you‘ll likely not be alone.

There have always been officers commissioned from the ranks under various university training programs going through phase training.  Many of these may be of similar age.

Once your in a battalion, you may find it easier to build rapport with your Senior NCOs -- some of whom occasionally find it taxing to be led by someone 10 years their junior.

No doubt, there will be challenges unique to being older than your peers.  However, no doubt, there will also be unique benefits.  Most young subalterns are not only wet behind the ears professionally, they are also lacking in general life experience and maturity.  I know I was.  Your "maturity" (assuming you are!) and life experience may give you an advantage.

And, you can still retire after 20 years with a 40 per cent pension and still be only 50!


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## Recce41

Hey
    You are not the first older type to joinup. There has been persons as old as 43. 
                                Recce41, SGT, RCD  :tank:


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## pauls

Age should not be a factor in your course. In my basic training course - a mixed bag of Infantry and Air Force Reservists - the older guys were asked advice and looked up to by most of the young pups (18-25) for real-world life advice and strength of character. Don‘t let your age fool your colleagues - you don‘t even have to tell them your age...
Best of Luck!


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## brad_dennis

Folks - thanks for all your replies and info. This was an "unknown" that needed to be addressed in an honest fashion and not by recruiter, whose bias I would of course be suspicious of. As in any new job there will always be obstacles, challenges and dues paying, but as I did not know what the "real" answer was, I did not want to be hamstrung by something that was beyond my control. The feedback is plain common sense.

I‘m very excited and eager to get going on this new path. I have decided to go officer, perhaps against my feeling that NCM might be more hands-on, practical and enjoyable. I just feel, rightly or wrongly that it is somewhat more intellectually challenging and motivating in the long run. Btw - just so I don‘t get flamed I‘m not at all suggesting NCM are not up to the intellectual challenge or are unmotivated. I just think that the way I see how the Combat arms wing of the army is STRUCTURED that there is more of an opportunity in the officer route. While that NCM route might be more enjoyable and practical it seems to me that the army puts a cap on the NCM class and I think that if I’m going to stick it out for the long run that this might be exasperating later on. Of course that’s just naive opinion and I have not heard too much about this from NCM’s. I suspect that all of you have your own opinions about that. Let‘s hear them   

Also, just out of pure curiosity describe for me what the role of the captain would be in the infantry and what he/she does in a typical day/week or tour. You may email me privately at bradd106@excite.ca if you wish.

Thanks also goes out to Mike for making this service available. DND should pay you a commission for recruiting me!

Again many thanks


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## SAXON

Brad,

You have everything going for you right now. This is exactly the right time and circumstance for you to change direction. Yes, it will be a leap of faith, but take it from one who knows: You will never look back with regret on this one. My advice is, "Go for it!", and let this decision be the first step of developing an aggressive, sober leadership style that both you and your troops will benefit from.

Sixteen months ago, at 37, I went from being a very young RSM to being a somewhat elderly Captain...at least in the eyes of some. You‘re only as old as you believe you are. 

As for employability: Captain is probably the most employable rank in the infantry. A capt can be a rifle pl comd, a support pl comd, a coy 2i/c, a coy comd, an adjutant, a course commander, or one a whole host of extra-regimental positions.

There is only one down-side to joining later in life and that is the limit of your career progression. Certainly, in an inf battalion, you are unlikely to progress beyond capt and surely not beyond major, having joined so late. But don‘t let that worry you. Captain is a great rank and a Reg Force capt in the highest inf pay category currently makes over $70k per year.

For now, though, I‘d put all that aside and concentrate on the first steps (it‘ll be a few years before you‘re a capt anyway). Enjoy your early years as an officer and try not to rush things. If you play your cards right, you will be well respected as a rarity: A junior officer who is smart, but who also has a good degree of common sense and worldly wisdom. Most junior officers I know could give you the square route of a tin of beans in an instant, but couldn‘t tell you how to take the lid off!

Stay fit, keep sharp, and the very best of luck to you for your career...


   :sniper:


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## brad_dennis

Thank-you one and all. Your comments and suggestions have done a world of good! More than you might know.
I‘m looking forward to hopefully starting basic in the next available course, I assume January 2002.


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## Bilko

The only thing I have to add to this is that regular force infanty has the highest burn out rate of all trades and I am sure you will be happy with the new job as the office is no fun. The infantry is very demanding thusly 24 year old warrant officers which you won‘t find in any other trade. This is not to discourage you in your pursuit of a higher and much more fun calling just so that you go in with your eyes wide open. Good luck
Dave


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## the patriot

Do not worry!!  Not only are you very well educated.  You have something alot of the younger troops don‘t have.  Which would be life experience and mental maturity.   Along with all that you possess the "people skills" needed to deal with varying personality types.  Best of luck!!!

-the patriot-


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## Chairborne

I was posted to 3 PPCLI  as Chief Clerk at the ripe old age of 41.  I won‘t kid you.  The physical part was hard.  I‘ve never been very athletic, nevertheless I just gave it my best effort and everything worked out fine.

I was surprised by the respect I received from the Commanding Officer down to the most junior private.  I think they value experience and wisdom because most are very young.

Working with young soldiers in a battalion brings great rewards.  They‘re fit, active and keen to do things.   My next posting was to Mickey, Pluto and Company on the Rideau (NDHQ).  In a word boring.

If you want to join the infantry as an officer and accept the fitness challenge, then go for it.  My best wishes go with you.


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## Hebr

Im 24 years old and wanting to join the reserves. Am I too old, will I be in basic training with a bunch of 18 year old kids? what is the average age of soldiers in the reserves?


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## Hebr

im 24 years old and applying for the reserves. do you think that im too old, will i be in basic training with a bunch of high school kids? whats the average soldier age in the reserves?


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## Infanteer

Heck No!
My good buddy went throught reserve basic and trade training with me, and he was 32.  He is now getting ready to do a tour in Bosnia.  As long as your physically and mentally their, your age isn‘t a descriminatory factor.


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## Garett

I‘m working on a BMQ course right now with a 40 something year old women on it.  We had a guy on mine that was 43.


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## enfield

My unit just sent a guy through this summer who was 51.
He actually had an easier time with some of it than the 18 yr olds - he was used to staying up late working, getting up earlier, doing hands-on work, picking up new skills, all that work-ethic stuff you pick up with a lifetime of work. Had trouble with PT, but otherwise did fine.

24 is nothing remarkable for the Mo‘.


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## the patriot

They‘re so desperate right now they‘ll take anyone who‘s illiterate, white, and has no front teeth.  Just kidding!!! 24 isn‘t too old at all.  You‘ll do just fine!!!!

-the patriot-


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## L.Ron

No worries at all. I‘m 27 and applying reg and I was told that in some ways it‘s better to have more mature people. It is to the forces benefit to get guys that are sure of what they want and at 18 you‘d be hard pressed to know what you want to do. If they get 3 years out of an 18 year old and s/he moves on, its expensive and to no ones benefit.  Be a mentor to the younger guys and go for it


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## inf???

Hi all, Im thinking about the infantry , but am 39 yrs old . Anyone ever heard of someone this long in the tooth doing it ? 
Thanks


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## NavyGrunt

Dont worry Ive heard of it. Keep in mind alot of the worlds powerlifters set their personal records while they were in their 40's.The guys will help you get through. And you'll help them too.


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## MJP

I've had the pleasure of working with a man who did his battle school at almost fifty years of age, and in the Pl I belong to we have another Pte that is in his early forties.   Both are great soldiers and bring maturity and wisdom from their long years of experience.


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## kyleg

I'm going into my last week of SQ this sunday and there's a ripe old lad that's 44. I trained with him on my BMQ as well and he hasn't had many problems. The only advice I can give is that you work on your cardio because that was one of his weaker areas, which is understandable due to his age.

If you're at all worried about fitting in with us young'uns you have nothing to worry about, no one cares about your age (or any other discriminating characteristic for that matter. At least in my experience that is).

I say go for it and have a blast. If a reason not to do it actually exists age isn't it.

- Pte. Gremlin


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## Tpr.Orange

Im also on sq right now just finishing up at meaford. I have a fourty something year old buddy who is training with us also. Work on the cardio and just absorb the knowledge and you will be fine. after all age is only a mind state


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## Hunter

Hi there,

From one older guy to another, go for it.  

I joined in 2001, when I was 33.  I thought maybe I was too old but it's been no problem.  I'm 35 now and doing my Med-A QL3 at CRPTC Connaught in Ottawa, just home on leave for the weekend.  I met a guy there this week who is 35, and a medical doctor, doing BMQ.  I've met lots of older recruits and they all like it.  I know one woman, for example, who is a nurse (in her 40's) and did BMQ so she could go on a peacekeeping tour with her daughter.  I think a bit of life experience helps. 

I broke my foot the last day of BMQ in 2002, so I missed my QL3 that year, and last summer commitments to my civvy job kept me from going on course.  I've done SQ and a driving course in the meantime, and finally I'll be getting rid of my cornflake.   In general I'm really impressed with the quality of people I've met, and if I could I would go reg force in a second.

I'm just home on weekend leave right from my course right now but I'm looking forward to going back; the experience has been awesome.  Like I said, go for it, and best of luck to you.

Hunter out.


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## willy232

Know a couple of guys who went thru it in their 40's.  Know another who did it at 52!  And I thought I was crazy doing Battle School at 32.


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## worldtraveller321

Good evening. I was looking again at the military as a change of careers?

If I started. I will be a 31 year old male. I am in good fitness and health.

Would I be too old to join military? With no previous background or degree?

Would Infantry be a bad decision?

What positions would be recommended for army for someone to start?

What are the most in demand positions right now for army with the Canadian forces?

Thank you


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## Mike Baker

No. Please search.


Beav


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## kincanucks

You are not too old but you are too lazy.


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## mjc_1812

You aren't too old.

No decision is "bad". There are only right and wrong decisions for you.

As long as you meet the criteria, you can start at almost any position.

Go to www.forces.ca and search hot jobs, those are the jobs that are in the highest demand.


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## aesop081

worldtraveller321 said:
			
		

> What are the most in demand positions right now for army with the Canadian forces?



Who freakin cares. How about you loom for something that you will like instead. That way, 10 years from now, you are not whining that you are in a trade you dont like. Joining a trade simply because it is " in demand" is freakin stupid.

Look at all the trades, pick one that you like and apply for that. The rest will fall into place.


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## Highlander60

worldtraveller321 said:
			
		

> Good evening. I was looking again at the military as a change of careers?
> 
> If I started. I will be a 31 year old male. I am in good fitness and health.
> 
> Would I be too old to join military? With no previous background or degree?
> 
> Would Infantry be a bad decision?
> 
> What positions would be recommended for army for someone to start?
> 
> What are the most in demand positions right now for army with the Canadian forces?
> 
> You are certianly not too old. There are a number of "hot jobs" but the five critical onest ab are Sig Ops, Artillery, and 3 Navy Tech trades. Like the comment made above, choose something that interests you. Like the other comments, look up forces.ca where there is tons of info, and do some research before you get to the recruiting center.
> 
> Thank you


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## Celticgirl

I'll be 37 this month and start basic in January. There are plenty of people older than I joining, so you are certainly not "too old".

Visit the recruiting website and then your local CFRC. I made no fewer than 3 visits to 2 different recruiting centres before I even applied. In that time, I changed my application from reserves to reg force, and considered several trades, both NCM and Officer, before settling on my 3 choices. Talking to recruiters helps a lot. Also, at the RCs, there are brochures with information on each trade, and in my case, I was given a couple of little DVDs (if they don't offer, ask). Take your time and figure out what you are best suited for and most interested in.

The "search" function on this website will yield plenty of results for almost any recruiting question you have.


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## gasturbineguy

Hi all,

I’m considering joining the Reserve Forces after a number of years as a civi. I was actually in the Air Force for 20 years as an AET and later as an AVN tech.
Health is still very good (with the exception of a keg of beer wrapped around my belly) and I still meet the Canadian Forces physical fitness standards for my age group so I think, why not? The Forces was very good to me and I miss the life style and job as a member of the CF.

My question to all you old dogs that rejoined the Regs or joined the reserves after being out for a while is how was the transition? Do you have any suggestions or stories good or bad, that I may find helpful?

Look forward to hearing all your insight.

Thanks


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## GUNS

Don't let age or time out of uniform, work its way into your decision to join. I was accepted back into the Reserves at the ripe age of 52. I was even offer a signing bonus to switch to the Regs.

Other than being called various names related to my age, it was not that bad.

If your body wears civvy cloths but your heart is still in unifirm, go for it. A life of, " what if ", is not living at all.    :yellow:


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## gasturbineguy

Thanks there Guns for the feedback. Just what I was looking for.
How long were you out prior to rejoining?

Thanks again.


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## George Wallace

I did fairly much the same thing.  The only things I can't get used to is the failures in administration, and some of the 'non-military' attitudes some Reservists have; 'they just don't get it'.  Usually a little bit of TI and a Tour sort out those attitudes.  Other than that, I enjoy working with the group of people I am with in my unit, and have no regrets about joining the Reserves.  

I wish more Ex-Reg Force would join the Reserves to help mentor them, as well as make the CT process a two-way street to stem the flow of freshly qualified Reservists leaving the Reserve units.  At times it is a little disheartening to train a Reservist, and then see him/her join the Regs, leaving your unit with nothing and having to bring in more raw recruits to start the process over again.  If the CT process was a two way street, this would lessen the impact on Reserve units and give them trained pers to keep their capabilities up.  Many Reserve Units have a serious problem with shortages in their leadership ranks at the MCpl through WO levels.


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## mariomike

gasturbineguy said:
			
		

> The Forces was very good to me and I miss the life style and job as a member of the CF.



I think ( speaking as a civilian ) there is a demand for experienced members like you in the CF. With good attitude. Because, I believe, that attitude is *everything*.
Other public service agencies are experiencing difficulty in recruiting suitably qualified replacement staff.  The "Baby Boomers" who joined in the early 1970's are reaching the end of their careers and retiring, just as demand for service is increasing.


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## M4R71N

I am 29,is that too old too join.My whole life fell apart on me and i only have a grade 11.I have been thinking of going into the Army for a better career.But could use all the advice i can get.

So is 29 too old?,How many people actually join at my age??Is there signing bonuses,if so how do they work?

and i have been doing research and am interested in either becoming a materials technician,weapons tech or armored  soldier.Who here has accomplished any of these jobs?and can tell me about your experience?

thanks

M4R71N


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## Michael OLeary

M4R71N said:
			
		

> I am 29,is that too old too join.
> 
> So is 29 too old?,



No, it isn't.  If you browse the Recruiting forum you'll find plenty of threads about people planning to, and joining, at ages older than 29.


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## SeanNewman

Absolutely not too old.  I would think twice about joining the Infantry, but it's closed anyway and there are dozens of other Army jobs you could do.

Not to say that 29+ year olds haven't been successful in the Infantry in the past, it would just be much harder than 18-20 year olds doing the same work.

Many join even older than yourself, so go see the recruiting centre and see that suits you best.

I would advise picking a better reason to tell people there that you joined because your whole world was crashing around you ;-)  Maybe something about loving Canada and wanting to serve because you were inspired by media coverage (I'm an idealist).


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## ModlrMike

Thirty is not too old to become an officer. Many of my peers would say that thirty is about right.


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## mariomike

"At thirty would I be too old to qualify for the direct officer entry program?"

Just something I found on Google. Speak to a Recruiter to verify:
"there is no maximum age, but an applicant must be able to complete the terms of service offered on enrolment prior to the release age prescribed in QR&O Chapter 15, Release. Terms of service take into account restricted release policy, any obligatory service that may be incurred, and military occupation training."
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-1-eng.asp


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## gcclarke

And, if you're wondering, the "release age" mentioned that is outlined in QR&Os Chapter 15 is, for all officers who commence their service as an officer of the regular force on or after 1 July 2004, 60 years of age. Sounds to me like plenty of time to get a career in.


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## vonGarvin

Having seen a number of "older" candidates on officer training, no, 30 is not too old.  However, do not expect to rise above the rank of Captain.  If you do, you will not be in a position to command a company.  Most company commanders these days are around 30, so, you are behind them in those terms.

Having said that, there are many good positions to fill and your life experiences may assist you in your path, should you choose to do so.


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## ajp

I commissioned at 30+ and am quite happy with my current career path.  There are Tons of Older people joining the Officer Ranks.  I agree with TechnoVic that you may be limited in certain issues, but there are plenty of fulfilling tasks out there to keep you busy.


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## Sprinting Thistle

Yes, if Inf is a choice, age will also impact whether the member commands a rifle company, attends staff college (Toronto or otherwise), gets promoted beyond major; all effecting future job choices.


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## Dombi

Sprinting Thistle said:
			
		

> Yes, if Inf is a choice, age will also impact whether the member commands a rifle company, attends staff college (Toronto or otherwise), gets promoted beyond major; all effecting future job choices.



If I join at 35 as ACSO or Signals O, (this is what I hope will happen soon) my chances of getting Major or Lt. Col. are reduced ? Does my MBA can count for something in the promotion system and helps me in getting higher ranks ?

Thanks


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## vonGarvin

Dombi said:
			
		

> If I join at 35 as ACSO or Signals O, (this is what I hope will happen soon) my chances of getting Major or Lt. Col. are reduced ? *Does my MBA can count for something in the promotion system and helps me in getting higher ranks * ?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, your promotion hinges entirely on your post-secondary education, because as officers, we aren't commanders or leaders, we are pencil-headed geeks [/sarcasm]

Actually, out of 100% potential score, an MBA may count for 1%, so I'm not saying it's useless, I'm just saying there it is.


As for getting to Major or LCol, age has nothing to do with it.  Age has everything to do with commanding a line unit or sub-unit.  If you join DEO at 35, and suppose that you are complete officer training at 36, you will then "normally" wait 8-12 years to become Major (44-48).  So, it's not really a matter of age, but of mathematics.


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## gcclarke

Dombi said:
			
		

> If I join at 35 as ACSO or Signals O, (this is what I hope will happen soon) my chances of getting Major or Lt. Col. are reduced ? Does my MBA can count for something in the promotion system and helps me in getting higher ranks ?
> 
> Thanks



For ACSO, your educational qualifications can earn you up to 3 points out of 100 on the promotion board as both a Captain and a Major. I can't say for sure if your MBA would be worth the full 3 points, but I'd say you've got a decent chance of getting 2 points for it. 

For SIGS, education is rated 4 points out of 100. For this one, at least for the promotion from Captain to Major, I think you have a decent chance of getting the full four points. SIGS is one of the trades that advertised sponsoring a position from their trade for a MBA in the most recent Post-Graduate Training Program message.

For both of these, this information is only valid until after you've been promoted to LCol. After that, things are rated differently.


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## TangoTwoBravo

I was a 27 year old Troop Leader and now I am a 38 year old Squadron Commander.

Masters degrees can give extra points to promotion, but they really only factor into the promotion board.  For your file to reach that board you need to have three years of really good evaluations, and those usually come from having the right jobs. You get those good jobs by doing well at other important jobs in your brach (although non-combat arms folks seem to be a little more free and easy with career paths). All that to say that education and language can help but you absolutely need to do really well at the critical jobs for your branch before those extras kick in. Of course, if you lack education and second language you may well reach the boards based on performance but fall short due to those extra things.

You may not get to Chief of Defence Staff this life around, but I don't think that 30 is too old to join.


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## CanadianSun

hey guys!

I've just recently decided to go serious on my decision to finally switch careers to the armed forces. I've had this dream ever since i was a junior hs student.

my key question however is I'm currently 23 turning 24 in may, am i too old to apply for ROTP for either infantry/armour or MARS officer? (I've still got plenty of research to do) but i figure by the time these positions open up and I've passed security clearance i will probably in for sept 2011 at the earliest which i will be 25 by then.

also I've heard there is a high failure rate in MARS due to their training does anyone have any insights on this? is it cause of the math? or a specific aspect?

all help is appreciated.


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## gcclarke

The maximum age at which you can apply for ROTP is 47 for MARS, and 46 for Infantry and Armoured. You need to have enough time to be able to complete your variable initial engagement (the length of which varies by trade) before you reach the compulsory retirement age of 60. 

And yes, a fair number of MARS types wash out. While I won't say that the "math" itself isn't a factor, it's rarely the main factor. More important is the ability to be able to quickly react, *correctly*, in highly stressful situations. Some of this does involve doing quick calculations in your head, but I suspect that the type of person who has trouble doing that is likely also to have trouble making other non-math related decisions in similar scenarios. 

Also, if you considering a career as an officer in Her Majesty's Canadian Armed Forces, I highly suggest you start refining your communication skills now. I presume your keyboard came with a shift key. You might wish to utilize it.


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## Lex Parsimoniae

CanadianSun said:
			
		

> I've heard there is a high failure rate in MARS due to their training does anyone have any insights on this? is it cause of the math? or a specific aspect?


 http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/91973/post-909388.html#msg909388


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## CanadianSun

Thank you for the tips and pointers.


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## Linny

I am a 47 year old female taking steps to join CF. would be interested in any feedback from current Military ranks or others who joined at a later stage in life.
I am healthy, well educated, my first career was being a Mom to 3 kids, later acheived business management level; I think that I can make BMQ, although some areas would need improvement I am confident that I can work myself up to the required fitness level, I am in the gym 4-5 per week for the past year.
any advice or feedback for someone going in at my age? this is a strong desire I have to plant my feet in something solid, disciplined and ordered in life, something that serves, something other than just putting money in my pocket; 
I have a bit of Military background, my father served in the Canadian Army while I grew  up, he was posted to nearly every base here in Canada, and posted for 3 years in Germany.
any feedback would be appreciated.


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## PMedMoe

Linny, try this thread to start:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91066.0.html

There are several other threads from people who have joined at an "advanced" age.  Also, for fitness tips, pointers, etc, look in the Physical Training & Standards sub-forum.  There are good threads there and really good ones "stickied" at the top.

Happy reading, enjoy the site and good luck!


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## j_r_42

I just finished BMOQ in December and there was a women the same age as you....so it is definitely possible..

best of luck!!


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## Tetragrammaton

Only joking.

As long as you are fully committed to the course, and baring physical injury, you will successfully complete the BMQ. A good level of cardiovascular endurance and being a good runner will serve you better than say superior upper body strength. The better physical shape you are in prior to the course will translate into an easier time during the course. Joining at 47 isn't significantly different than an experienced member of the same age having to pass the physical requirements to remain operational and employable. 

A few years back a small group of us would have morning physical training together. Routinely, the highest performances were from our oldest member present, who was 48 at the time. No denying that age is a factor, but it is hardly the most important.

Best of luck with your future endeavors.


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## Saja

Age is just a number.  I myself, am an old"er" female (45 to be exact) who has just accepted my offer for RMS Clerk - Land and head to basic in St. Jean July 10th.  Determination and life experiences that we have as older applicants will serve us well in our newfound careers in the CF.  I am so pumped and excited to be moving on to a new chapter in my life, as is my family.

I am working hard on the physical aspects beforehand so that I am prepared for basic and am confident you can do it....Feel free to pm if you want to chat about the process I went through.  Best of Luck!!!!


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## armychick2009

My friends mom last year went from a McJob to Combat Engineer. She did the same as you... took a year to get really fit and she's now off to finish her trades training I believe... and she was 47 or 48. So, if that helps reassure you!


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## Linny

thanking everyone for all the feedback and encouragement. I look forward to completing the entry stages and be on my way I hope!
good to hear the success stories of other females who are doing or have done the same.

thanks again!


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## TFLY

Linny;  I got a lot of great advice on my original post that PMedmoe posted the link for above.  And I also seem to recall someone telling me they needed pictures....hmmmm  :-\  But I would like to add, in all seriousness, I have found the process to be challenging but mostly EXCITING.  I have not even gone to BMQ yet, but I am excited and reassured with the help of my friends on ARMY.CA.  

Comb the threads and soak it up, there is so much information here that I am sure you will receive the encouragement you need to proceed!  

Good luck and have fun!! 

TFLY


----------



## 2010newbie

CanadianSun said:
			
		

> my key question however is I'm currently 23 turning 24 in may, am i too old to apply for ROTP...



CanadianSun:

You're definitely not too old..... I was thinking the same thoughts as you (for any entry plan - not specifically ROTP), but I was accepted ROTP for 2010-2011 as Pilot and I'm 33 (turning 34 this year)....

Good Luck.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Too old, not at all; however, I don't know if I would recommend going the RMC route if I were you.  Seeing as how your 24 and probably going to be 25 by the time your accepted going to RMC could be a very difficult adjustment.

You have most likely been living on your own for a few years, going to RMC will mean you will be living with people who are 17 to 18 years old, sometimes even younger.  You will be living in University style dorms, with a roommate who is continuously in your face for possibly four years.  This is a very hard adjustment to make, you will be eating crap food, have pretty crap living conditions and not a whole lot of personal space or privacy.   For someone who had lived on their own for a few years transitioning to this can be extremely difficult.  I know I had lived on my own for a few years before I went to RMC and I found this to be the biggest adjustment, and sometimes it was almost unbearable. 

Having said that I am not discouraging the program RMC offers; however, if you are going to go the ROTP route I strongly recommend you go through a Normal University, unless you think the adjustment won't be a big problem.


----------



## Hali26

I'm 26, i have a degree, and im thinking about becoming a MARS officer? Am I too old? Will I be the oldest person in training?


----------



## Otis

Ummm, not even close.

Max age for Appl as a DEO MARS officer is 51 I believe.
(If the contract for MARS is 9 years, which I think it is, but I don't have the ppwk right here in front of me)


----------



## PMedMoe

Please use the search function.  This question has been asked _numerous_ times.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Google - site:army.ca "too old"  ---> About 431 results


----------



## rbillard

i am a 40 yr old architect that has thought a lot about this and would be interested in joining the military. is there any chance in hell? i want to go into the fray and not essentially be a paper pusher. i want to serve. let and augment my skills. do something real and worthy. thoughts?


----------



## aesop081

rbillard said:
			
		

> i want to go into the fray and not essentially be a paper pusher. i want to serve.



Everyone who wears a CF uniform is indeed serving, regardless of what their specific duties are.


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Everyone who wears a CF uniform is indeed serving, regardless of what their specific duties are.



Excellent response CDN Aviator, I am almost through the application process and am very hopeful to become one of those "paper pushers" and I couldn't be more proud of the path I have chosen. 
As for being 40 and considering applying? Go for it, I soon turn 48 and applied in January.  Remember, with age comes maturity, self-discipline, and wisdom (for most), all traits of which will only benefit you as an applicant and your service to the uniform.  All the best to you and hope it all works out for you.


----------



## The Bread Guy

rbillard said:
			
		

> i am a 40 yr old architect that has thought a lot about this and would be interested in joining the military. is there any chance in hell? i want to go into the fray and *not essentially be a paper pusher*. i want to serve. let and augment my skills. do something real and worthy. thoughts?


If you think being a paper pusher isn't a contribution, remember the last time your pay didn't get automatically deposited into your account.  Like Cdn Aviator so aptly put it....


			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Everyone who wears a CF uniform is indeed serving, regardless of what their specific duties are.


----------



## medicineman

To answer the question - go to Forces.ca, take a look around and fill out an application.  My wife joined in her mid 40's - it's nothing people aren't used to seeing anymore.

Good luck.

MM


----------



## rbillard

thank you all for your input and encouragement.  i do not mean to sound negative about paper pushing, it is just that i have been doing that for a while and would like to expand my horizons and work as a cohesive team. (not that a clerical group is not a team...).


----------



## GnyHwy

You should consider the Engineer trades.  If an Engineer is reading, please refine my explanation.  

Structure tech (combination of draftsmen and carpenter) would be a natural fit for you.  Making an assumption that you have a university degree, becoming an officer could put you into a job with a ton of responsibility.  

As far as going into the fray with this job, these soldiers are needed to enter foreign areas in the initial phases of an operation in order to set up infrastructure.  Likely a very demanding and rewarding job.

Another Engineer trade is Geo Tech (mapping).  As far as I know, this is not a direct entry trade but, with the education and skills you already possess this may be something you might want to pursue.  In my opinion, digital mapping and info systems are just starting to emerge and have a very bright future.

If that doesn't work for you, I'll plug my own in here.  Go Arty!  We need guys with strong mapping and math skills.  You've learned how to design and build things.  Now learn how to blow them up.

In closing, age should not keep you from joining.  As long as your reasonably fit,  work on running and basic strength training and you'll be fine.  Maturity and wisdom goes a long way.


----------



## MidnightSun82

Hi everybody,

I have a well-paid full-time job that I like - however I've been thinking about joining the Reserves for some time now (Infantry or Armored - not too sure yet).  I would also like to do the direct entry officer program given my education and overall personnality .  I need a bit of guidance about how to proceed, particularly regarding the time it takes to do the basic training and the officer training.

Essentially, I need to know specifically how long it takes so I can ask for that time off my regular work.  I understand that basic training can be done in different modules during week-ends.  However, I read that the officer training is performed during the summer.  How long is that course?  I found conflicting information on the Internet and I would like some of you to help me out.

Thank you very much for any help and tips you guys can give me.  I appreciate it!!!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

You're in the right Forum (Training). Now, if you look at some of the topics listed here, or do a search, there's an extremely good chance that all your questions have already been answered. Have a look around, you'll be suprised what you'll find.

Welcome to Millnet.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## MidnightSun82

Thanks.  I already searched a bit and the information seems to be all over the place.  I think I'll call Fort York so I can get a clear idea.

It won't be easy asking my employer for 2-3 months off during the summer.  I just wanted the exact amount of weeks needed.


----------



## Dissident

Some training can be done over week ends. Such as BMOQ, basic training for officers.

You also might want to Google the Canadian Forces Liaison Council for help with your employer.


----------



## MidnightSun82

Thanks NinerSix.

I work for the Federal Government.  There is a policy stating that an employee can have leave without pay for military service / training.  This aspect is covered.   The leadership or officer course (don't know the exact term) taking place during the summer is a few months (?) and this means a pay cut for me!  I need to save up enough dough to pay my mortgage during that time!


----------



## Nauticus

MidnightSun82 said:
			
		

> Thanks NinerSix.
> 
> I work for the Federal Government.  There is a policy stating that an employee can have leave without pay for military service / training.  This aspect is covered.   The leadership or officer course (don't know the exact term) taking place during the summer is a few months (?) and this means a pay cut for me!  I need to save up enough dough to pay my mortgage during that time!


Well, the other option, like someone else said, is take it on weekends if it's available.


----------



## Redeye

In either trade, the only courses that will be available to you on weekends are BMQ and possibly whatever BOTP is called now.  CAP/BMOQ(L) and your trade course are residential courses, both conducted in Gagetown, and you'll need to take time off work to do them.  They are in two week modules, but if you can't get more time than two weeks off each time, you're looking at a very long time to get qualified.  BMOQ(L) is 11 weeks IIRC, DP1.1 for Infantry is 13, for Armoured is 13 as well I think.


----------



## mariomike

This may be of interest.
Canada Labour Code
"Leave of Absence for Members of the Reserve Force":
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/L-2/page-103.html#h-98


----------



## BDTyre

You may also have the option of using vacation time, depending on your department's policy and how much vacation you have. The private sector company that I work for allows unused vacation to carry over. At the start of this year I ended up having way too much vacation time, and so used some of it for our brigade ex.


----------



## Ice97

rbillard said:
			
		

> i am a 40 yr old architect that has thought a lot about this and would be interested in joining the military. is there any chance in hell? i want to go into the fray and not essentially be a paper pusher. i want to serve. let and augment my skills. do something real and worthy. thoughts?



Age has nothing to do with it as long as you are fit enough to capibly do the job.  My friend is on his 1st tour and 42 years old.


----------



## toyotatundra

There is at least one officer at my unit who started his career at your age. He is physically fit, and articulate. I feel secure under his command.


----------



## BernDawg

I would imagine that an Architect would be a perfect fit here.

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/constructionengineeringofficer-42

I spent 11 yrs in the Construction Engineers and have now moved on to another construction related job. I've met several mature Lieutenants durinf my career and had a tremendous amount of respect for them.

Whatever you choose, good luck and God-speed


----------



## Renwick

This post makes me feel a lot better about my current situation.  I am 29 and have just been accepted to RMC in order to become an artillery officer.... put my mind at ease... thank you.  ;D


----------



## Pusser

Stymiest said:
			
		

> This is a very hard adjustment to make, *you will be eating crap food*, have pretty crap living conditions and not a whole lot of personal space or privacy.



I take great offence to that statement!  The CF spends a lot of time, effort and money on food services and our food services are second to none.

Anyone who has difficulty living in close quarters with little privacy should look elsewhere for a career.  There are many situations all across the military, particularly at sea or in the field where quarters will be tight and privacy virtually non-existent.  Get used to it and learn to accept it or else life will be very difficult.


----------



## Rebel232

:yellow:


----------



## tree hugger

If you're federal public service there is also a 'leave with pay' option.


----------



## Class-Senior

I am also a Federal Government worker during the day and have been a Reserve Officer for about a year now. I can confirm the following:
- the only course run on weekends is BMQ (first part of BMOQ for you). the rest you will be taking time off to attend. The next courses (you indicated Land Forces Officer) are BMOQ Mod 2 (three weeks) and CAP (10 weeks = 5 x 2 week sections which can be taken separate but, everyone will recommend you do them together). 
- Paid or Unpaid military leave will be at the discretion of your department. If your a civilian at DND, you have a much better chance at getting the paid leave. It is possible in any department but, it took me almost a year to get it approved. I started working on the paid leave option before I was sworn in to the forces. Find the leave category in your pay system and start talking to an HR rep (and your boss) in your department. The paid option will require a fairly senior authorization level and most likely a letter from your CO.
- My application process was over a year. The forces will ensure you really want them as part of your life.

I hope this helps you. For others that read this, it is written in Aug 2011 and over time course names, times, and leave approval info may change.

BTW - so far, it has definitely been worth it.


----------



## mariomike

tree hugger said:
			
		

> If you're federal public service there is also a 'leave with pay' option.



Info regarding Military Leave here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2552.0.html

Some more info on Military Leave:
http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+&btnG=Search#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=site:army.ca+%22military+leave%22&pbx=1&oq=site:army.ca+%22military+leave%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=0l0l2l36173l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=43b3d7638083a689&biw=1360&bih=594


----------



## Pusser

MidnightSun82 said:
			
		

> Thanks NinerSix.
> 
> I work for the Federal Government.  There is a policy stating that an employee can have leave without pay for military service / training.  This aspect is covered.   The leadership or officer course (don't know the exact term) taking place during the summer is a few months (?) and this means a pay cut for me!  I need to save up enough dough to pay my mortgage during that time!



On the bright side, although you may take a pay cut while training full time, you will be bringing in extra money for the evening a weekend training that you will do a lot of the time as well.


----------



## Blacksmith

Hey everyone.
I'm a few weeks away from being sworn in, and was wondering how much flack I might expect to recieve during BMQ and SQ.
I've been away from the military for over 20 years, which means that some of the recruits I'll be training with will not have been born when I mustered out.
Does anyone here have any experience with this sort of thing? I'm not worried about harrassment (I don't think anyone would deliberately undermine my effort to serve) but I'm sure there will be a certain amount of good natured ribbing.
Though I may be wrong about harrassment and undermining....

Either way, I'm looking forward to it. An adventure at 48! Should be fun.


----------



## PMedMoe

They'll call you "Dad".   :nod:


----------



## GAP

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> They'll call you "Dad".   :nod:



or "Pops"


----------



## fauntania

Does this mean at 40, I'll be "Mom"?  *chuckle*  I'm starting BMQ January 23rd!

You're not the only "older type person" joining up!
 :


----------



## MJP

We hate older people, they don't cry for attention and they have work ethic (well some do).  Plus they don't seem to cry when they get in jacked up.  Horrible people all of them...


----------



## Fatalize

You can reflect on how much easier it is this time and call them lucky :warstory:  I would not worry about it tho, the age/gender/race differences on my BMQ never seemed to be a problem.


----------



## Blacksmith

GAP said:
			
		

> or "Pops"



Yeah a friend of mine said "don't be surprised if they call you the 'course senior citizen'". I thought that was pretty funny.


----------



## Class-Senior

I finished BMQ and BMOQ (reservists do them as two courses) at 45
I did half my phase 2 training at Gagetown at 46

On BMQ, there was another guy who was 49 (an ex reg forces guy who came back
as a reservist).

We fit in fine. There was the odd joke but, I usually felt like part of the crowd.

Congrats !


----------



## Thunda

MJP said:
			
		

> We hate older people, they don't cry for attention and they have work ethic (well some do).  Plus they don't seem to cry when they get in jacked up.  Horrible people all of them...



lol, this made my day


----------



## Hurricane

A Gentleman I work with completed his basic at 55. On my basic, we had a female at 53 going through as a trained dental tech. We treated her as a soldier.


----------



## Jackson10

My BMQ (reserves) had 2 people in their 40s and 2 in their late 30s (including me). I think we had the most fun on the course. Hanging out with 19 and 20 year olds can be quite fun, if you let it be.


----------



## OldSolduer

Blacksmith said:
			
		

> Hey everyone.
> I'm a few weeks away from being sworn in, and was wondering how much flack I might expect to recieve during BMQ and SQ.
> I've been away from the military for over 20 years, which means that some of the recruits I'll be training with will not have been born when I mustered out.
> Does anyone here have any experience with this sort of thing? I'm not worried about harrassment (I don't think anyone would deliberately undermine my effort to serve) but I'm sure there will be a certain amount of good natured ribbing.
> Though I may be wrong about harrassment and undermining....
> 
> Either way, I'm looking forward to it. An adventure at 48! Should be fun.



Welcome back - I certainly hope they give you a good razzing  joking - some will. Most of the younger ones will look to you for leadership. It doesn't matter that you're a recruit like them, all they know is you're older and wiser.....we think......


----------



## Spooks

Blacksmith said:
			
		

> Hey everyone.
> I'm a few weeks away from being sworn in, and was wondering how much flack I might expect to recieve during BMQ and SQ.
> I've been away from the military for over 20 years, which means that some of the recruits I'll be training with will not have been born when I mustered out.
> Does anyone here have any experience with this sort of thing? I'm not worried about harrassment (I don't think anyone would deliberately undermine my effort to serve) but I'm sure there will be a certain amount of good natured ribbing.
> Though I may be wrong about harrassment and undermining....
> 
> Either way, I'm looking forward to it. An adventure at 48! Should be fun.



As Mr Seggie said, you'll most likely be looked to for leadership. That may not even be the 'should we do a frontal or flank attack?' army leadership but rather 'Well, I could go down to the ranks with the guys or stay and do my station jobs first like 'Blacksmith' does'. We are all new at the army game in BMQ. If you don't pull out the caveat 'Well, I'm 48, I can't do the required amount of pushups' card, then they shouldn't bring age in as a way razz you. Yes, you may be jokingly ribbed about your age, just as red-headed recruits are about their hair or nerds are about their accumulation of comic books by the end of course.


----------



## Rogo

We had a 46 mother on our course....We called her mom, she was nursing O so took good care of us when people were injured and the such. Use your experience and skills to your advantage, she loved being the platoon mom and excelled at it.  And as a reward I made a good friendship and on grad day had the pleasure of meeting her daughter  

But really, any detriment age has is overcome by many more positive skills should you approach the course with a good attitude and a willingness to use your personal experience to help others.  

My :2c:


----------



## Hunter

Probably, but so what.  I was the oldest by far on almost every military course I have ever done.  I was oldest by a little on one of them.    I'm usually the oldest person in the room.  On my first tour there was another reservist at the same FOB who was older than me.  His guys called him 'old balls'.  

I think you will find that yes maybe the back and knees might ache a bit but life experience counts for a lot. 

From one old guy to another, go for it you old fart.  

Old man tough is just straight-up tough.  

Good luck with it!


----------



## OldSolduer

GhostofJacK said:
			
		

> nerds are about their accumulation of comic books by the end of course.



What century are you from? Comic books? Really now..... 

In my day we had a collection of stone tablets but then someone invented papyrus..... ;D


----------



## CountDC

you had tablets before there was fire? ;D


----------



## OldSolduer

CountDC said:
			
		

> you had tablets before there was fire? ;D



Yes. We didn't exactly follow the CTP. Mind you, the CTP was - if I remember correctly 20 - 30 tablets or so. 

Once Og discover fire was better and dun Basic Caveman qualification. Then name change to Basic Caveman Qual (Land). Og (fire starter) went to Caveman Navy.


----------



## Franko

Welcome back to the "big green machine". 

We don't like it when older folks get in and actually do as they are told, work their asses off and can actually function without a iPhone welded to their thumbs. We certainly don't like it when they get accelerated promoted and put on career courses faster than their younger peers due to the above shortcomings.

Have fun on your courses. You'll find them rather easy compared to 20 years ago.

Regards


----------



## Jarnhamar

Jackson10 said:
			
		

> My BMQ (reserves) had 2 people in their 40s and 2 in their late 30s (including me). I think we had the most fun on the course. Hanging out with 19 and 20 year olds can be quite fun, if you let it be.



Man. I'd rather be locked in a room with Tom Green, Jim Carry and Fran Drescher than hang out with 19 and 20 year olds.


----------



## OldSolduer

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> Man. I'd rather be locked in a room with Tom Green, Jim Carry and Fran Drescher than hang out with 19 and 20 year olds.



I could handle Fran - just gag her.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Jim I think she would chew through that gag faster than a beaver through a softwood tree  ;D


----------



## Kimchiburger

First things first, I've been the Reserves before back when I was a teenager and I washed out. I washed out a few days after my 18th birthday. I'm not sure if this will be a big, black mark on my record or not but I basically washed out (I was "honourably discharged") because I was 18 and didn't know my head from a hole in the ground. I didn't do anything bad, I was just a "slack and idle bag of hammers" as my old Master Corporal used to put it. 

A little bit of history, I'm 27 years old. I have a BA in Philosophy, have been teaching English in South Korea and Japan for five years and am contemplating coming back and giving the military another go. I'm getting tired of teaching English and all the problems that go along with it. 

Since my last stint in the military, I've grown up, got in great physical shape (I was over 230lbs of fat first time around) and I've gained a ton of life experience on the other side of the world. I'm going to be fluent in Korean by the end of this year, I speak passable Japanese (I don't know if either of these things would help). I just have some questions: 

1. Does having washed out at 18 affect my chances? How much so? 

2. Does me being overseas affect my chances at all? How will they see that? 

3. I'm looking at going in as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer--did I get that right?) Is it competitive now? Some of the trades I'm interested in are the ones I've heard need applicants (Armoured, Artillery and so on). Is that correct? 

4. Am I too old? If I go through basic at age 29 or 30... will I be the oldest in the group? Does it hurt my ability to be accepted? I'm worried that they'd only be looking for fresh-out-of-university 22-year-olds and I am not that. 

That's it. Any answers/help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time!


----------



## DonaldMcL

Kimchiburger said:
			
		

> First things first, I've been the Reserves before back when I was a teenager and I washed out. I washed out a few days after my 18th birthday. I'm not sure if this will be a big, black mark on my record or not but I basically washed out (I was "honourably discharged") because I was 18 and didn't know my head from a hole in the ground. I didn't do anything bad, I was just a "slack and idle bag of hammers" as my old Master Corporal used to put it.
> 
> A little bit of history, I'm 27 years old. I have a BA in Philosophy, have been teaching English in South Korea and Japan for five years and am contemplating coming back and giving the military another go. I'm getting tired of teaching English and all the problems that go along with it.
> 
> Since my last stint in the military, I've grown up, got in great physical shape (I was over 230lbs of fat first time around) and I've gained a ton of life experience on the other side of the world. I'm going to be fluent in Korean by the end of this year, I speak passable Japanese (I don't know if either of these things would help). I just have some questions:
> 
> 1. Does having washed out at 18 affect my chances? How much so?
> 
> 2. Does me being overseas affect my chances at all? How will they see that?
> 
> 3. I'm looking at going in as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer--did I get that right?) Is it competitive now? Some of the trades I'm interested in are the ones I've heard need applicants (Armoured, Artillery and so on). Is that correct?
> 
> 4. Am I too old? If I go through basic at age 29 or 30... will I be the oldest in the group? Does it hurt my ability to be accepted? I'm worried that they'd only be looking for fresh-out-of-university 22-year-olds and I am not that.
> 
> That's it. Any answers/help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time!



Everything would be best sent to a recruiting officer, but;

1. No, not at all. You were honourably discharged.
2. No, not at all. A few extra blocks on the application will need to be filled out but that's about it.
3. Contact the recruiting center, they're the only ones with that kind of reliable information.
4. No, not at all. I can pretty much guarantee you won't be the oldest in your platoon.


----------



## aesop081

BobSlob said:
			
		

> 2. No, not at all. A few extra blocks on the application will need to be filled out but that's about it.



It will add much to the length of time the application process takes. Much, much time.


----------



## mariomike

Kimchiburger said:
			
		

> Am I too old?



These may help,
1) Topic: "Am I too old?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/95055.0

2) Topic: "Am I too old?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17434.0/nowap.html

Topic: "Too old to Join?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80535.0

Topic: "Am i too old to join the Army":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/90487.0

Topic: "too old for the reserves?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21117.0

Topic: "dear Canadian Forces":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65909.0
"I visited recruiting office for the first time when I was 37, too old as I thought back then."

Topic: "Too Old?";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/207.0/nowap.html

Topic: "preparing and chances for reserve at age 39?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102026.0.html
2 pages.

Topic: "How old is too old to be an Officer?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25862.0/nowap.html

1) Topic: "Too old to become an officer?";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/90704.0/nowap.html

2) Topic: "Too old to become an officer?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/90704.0

Topic: "Old"er" woman just starting out...":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91066.25
6 pages.

Topic: "29 years old, full-time job - want to be a Reserves Officer...":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101467.0

Topic: "what if you are a 40 yr old architect that wants to see duty?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101449.0
" i am a 40 yr old architect that has thought a lot about this and would be interested in joining the military."

Topic: "Looking for feedback from some old dogs that have re-joined the CF":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87496.0
"I was accepted back into the Reserves at the ripe age of 52."

Topic: "47 year old female joining CF":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92803.0

Topic: "old officer question":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41488.0
"My worry would be my age. I am 35."

Topic: "Older is Better":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52468.0
"The U.S. Army has discovered that since September 11, 2001,  the number of older recruits (over 30 years of age) has increased 92 percent."

Topic: "Older recruit 35+ success rate in BMQ?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80557.0

Topic: "For the older guys...":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91797.0

Topic: "Older fellah thinking of joining reserves":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33592.0

Topic: "Older Recruits?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18121.0/nowap.html
2 pages.

Topic: "Article about older recruits":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17132.0/nowap.html

Topic: "older applicant";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/44344.0/nowap.html

Topic: "Age Limits - Regular Force":
 http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13210.0/nowap.html
"How old is too old to join the reg. forces?"
15 pages.

Topic: "Military mom set to join Army at age 41":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/48198.0/nowap.html

Topic: "recruitment ages and mandatory retirement":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23446.0/nowap.html

Topic: "A 36 years youngwoman and going for it":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98596.0
2 pages.

Topic: "Will an old guy get razzed?":
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/104081.0.html


----------



## Pusser

BobSlob said:
			
		

> 1. No, not at all. You were honourably discharged.



Not true by a long shot.  Unless one is discharged for disciplinary reasons (Items 1 and 2 of the Table to QR&O 15.01), all releases are honourable, but they do not necessarily allow re-enrolement.  QR&O 6.04 states:

_(2) Subject to paragraph (5), the following persons shall not be enrolled in the Canadian Forces:

(b) unless special authority is obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff, a person who has been released from the Canadian Forces, from any other of Her Majesty’s forces, from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or from any foreign force

(i) as medically unfit for further service,

(ii) for inefficiency, or

(iii) with a conduct assessment below “good” or the equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or the equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act._

Washing out could certainly fall under "inefficiency" or a conduct assessment of less than "good."  The OP needs to check his release paperwork.  If released under Item 5d or 5f of the table to QR&O 15.01, re-enrolement is not impossible, but he will have some explaining to do to prove that the reasons for his release have been resolved.


----------



## Kimchiburger

Pusser said:
			
		

> Not true by a long shot.  Unless one is discharged for disciplinary reasons (Items 1 and 2 of the Table to QR&O 15.01), all releases are honourable, but they do not necessarily allow re-enrolement.  QR&O 6.04 states:
> 
> _(2) Subject to paragraph (5), the following persons shall not be enrolled in the Canadian Forces:
> 
> (b) unless special authority is obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff, a person who has been released from the Canadian Forces, from any other of Her Majesty’s forces, from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or from any foreign force
> 
> (i) as medically unfit for further service,
> 
> (ii) for inefficiency, or
> 
> (iii) with a conduct assessment below “good” or the equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or the equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act._
> 
> Washing out could certainly fall under "inefficiency" or a conduct assessment of less than "good."  The OP needs to check his release paperwork.  If released under Item 5d or 5f of the table to QR&O 15.01, re-enrolement is not impossible, but he will have some explaining to do to prove that the reasons for his release have been resolved.



I'll reply to the rest later but I do remember being told that they *wanted *me to return to the service the next year when I was discharged. They said that I wasn't ready but they were confident that I would have done fine had I been a bit older. 

I'm ten years older as it is, so hopefully they still don't hold that against me.


----------



## SentryMAn

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> Man. I'd rather be locked in a room with Tom Green, Jim Carry and Fran Drescher than hang out with 19 and 20 year olds.



That wouldn't be so bad...
Now if it were Nickelback we'd have a problem


----------



## The Bread Guy

:crystalball:

I sense several threads with similar theme - merged to put all the "older than the mean" info in one thread.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## estoguy

Reading everyone's responses with interest.

I'm 34 and looking at the DEO route.  Its not April yet, and have been told that most things open up around then.  I resubmitted by application last week and faxed by supporting docs to Sudbury yesterday.

From reading other threads around the forum, 30s definitely aren't too old, and you'll have a lot of things to your advantage too, life experience being a big one.  I work as a supply teacher right now, and I'm a father.  So if the younger recruits look to me for advice and/or leadership, I'd be happy to provide it. 

Noticed on the Forces website that pilot applications are being accepted... will my age play a factor in that?  I'm in good health (including vision, no glasses) and hearing).  *IF* I could get into that, it would be a boyhood dream come true.  I think the only that could hold be back is size... I'm a big guy around 6'2'-6'3".  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Hoping that infantry opens again as well.  Applied last year, but some processing delays prevented me from making the cut. 

Another question, because I can't seem to find a definitive answer... NCS Eng, which sounds interesting and is demand... on the Forces website they don't list what kind of education you need going in.  I did watch a video on it that said you need a BSc, but I can't find anything that confirms that.


----------



## AGD

estoguy said:
			
		

> I think the only that could hold be back is size... I'm a big guy around 6'2'-6'3".  Anyone have any thoughts on that?



http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/39739.0.html


----------



## Grasshopper9

Good day to all! 

What do you think?  What do you suggest?

Applied June 24, 2012 Ottawa recruiting center
My first choice was Resource Management Support Clerk but the recruiter told me even with my high school diploma and in office experience. I was missing Math 436.

So I applied for:
Army: Postal Clerk, Traffic Technician, supply Technician
I am 43 years young, female and I'm having problem to do my push ups,what can I do to get upper body strength  and does anyone have a good fitness  program  that I can follow to get me ready for test..

Thank you  and take care!
Grasshopper


----------



## Sythen

For push ups, what I suggested for my little sister (who was not able to do any and is now up to 5 or so) was to try negatives. Basically start in the "up" position and lower yourself as slow as humanly possible.. As in if it takes you 10+ seconds to be down to the ground then that is good.. The longer you can hold yourself up the better.. Soonish you will be able to start doing them normally and can just do repetition from there.


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

Negative pushups will help, and I found doing "girl pushups" (I don't like that term)to help too, the ones you do on you knees instead of your toes. If you attend a gym, there is a machine (not sure what it is called) that has a platform to stand on and you can set the weights to increase or decrease the resistance and do chin ups/pull ups (or reverse, I call them push downs). Using it really helped my upper body strength. Also, try using a wall and do them vertically instead of horizontally.
At 43 are you too old? I sure hope not, I've got 6 years on you so I would be totally out of luck. You will be able to offer skills that many younger people don't have, and they can help you out in areas where you aren't as strong.
For RMS Clerk you do need academic level math, but check to make sure you have the requirements for supply tech, I was told the bar had been raised for that trade substantially. If you don't have what you need for RMS, you may not have what you need for supply.


----------



## estoguy

I started the process last year and 34, and from comments I've read from here and from people I've met along the way, I certainly didn't feel like I was "too old".

Something else to help with push ups... if you are doing exercises like the bench press, with either dumbells or a bar, I read a great article in Men's Health that suggested doing the lift quickly, but the negative slowly (aim for around 2 s. on the negative). I started doing that in my workouts and it has certainly paid off.


----------



## Grasshopper9

Wow! Thank you for the replies.

Will be starting push up training today with the rest of my training.

Take care!


----------



## SurvivorRye

This thread has been one big motivator.  I've wanted to serve for as long as I can remember, it has just never seemed to have been an option.  I may have the chance to pull it off soon.  My wife and I pay our mortgage and joining would be a paycut from my current job, so it's kind of taken the back-burner up until this point in my life.  I hope this all comes together, I would love this challenge and the chance to give back and do something more worthwhile.  Thanks for the words of inspiration to this 30 year old guy.


----------



## Probie

I was reading something on the ND website that an individual can re enlist as long as there is enough time to complete the term they signed up for before reaching the mandatory retirement age of 60.

My question is this...being 55 if I try to re enlist where on the food chain will I start, and will I be accepted that close to retirement age, and what about the new retirement age laws...have they not changed? When I left the service I was a corporal in the infantry and had just returned from Cyprus.


----------



## MikeL

Probie said:
			
		

> My question is this...being 55 if I try to re enlist where on the food chain will I start,



Depends on what the PLAR grants you,  but there is a time limit.  If you go past 5 years(?) you can start at Pte(Recruit) and have to go through basic training again. 

A few years ago(around '06) I know a former Infantry MCpl with close to 10 years being out was able to get back in to the Infantry as a MCpl.  How ever another guy(also rejoined Infantry) with 10 years out had to start out as a Private(Recruit) again,  he had a few tours, was a Sgt, etc.



			
				Probie said:
			
		

> and what about the new retirement age laws...have they not changed?



What specifically are you referring to?



			
				Probie said:
			
		

> When I left the service I was a corporal in the infantry and had just returned from Cyprus.



When you rejoin(if you decide to) you may start out as a Private Recruit with a medal(s) - will get you some strange looks when you are seen in DEUs.


----------



## Probie

Thanks for the fast reply Skeletor

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/legislation-ends-mandatory-retirement-213925701.html



> Federally regulated employees in Canada will no longer be forced into retirement because of their age, thanks to new legislation signed into law last week.
> According to an article in the National Post, the Harper government has "quietly" repealed the section of the Canadian Human Rights Act that required wor



Not nuts about starting over from the bottom...but it could be interesting. Anyway here is the age law.


----------



## fraserdw

If you can do it, go for it.  But the infantry now is way way tougher physically than the infantry I joined at the end of the 70s!  By the way, my basic officer in 95 had a 54 year old on it who carried his own and a ruck belonging to one of our ladies for 80% of the BFT.  Be ready physically.


----------



## Jarnhamar

IMO your previous service experience, experience stemming from your age and your maturity would be better utilized in a trade vice the combat arms coming in as an NCM.


----------



## JorgSlice

Probie said:
			
		

> Thanks for the fast reply Skeletor
> 
> http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/legislation-ends-mandatory-retirement-213925701.html
> 
> Not nuts about starting over from the bottom...but it could be interesting. Anyway here is the age law.



That more applies to Public and Private sector occupations, not so much the CF.

A few years ago they increased the CF Compulsory Retirement Age from 55 to 60 (60 to 65 for CIC/COATS), although the maximum age for enrolment depends on your training requirements and the length of the VIE (Variable Initial Engagement). For instance, you apply at 57 for a trade that requires a 4 year VIE, well... they'll tell you you're too old and to find either another trade or you're S.O.L.


----------



## Probie

Returning as an NCM might be the solution although I am not sure what the training payoff is and if there is a sufficient amount of time between acceptance and retirement age.

Thanks for the info on the new retirement age limit, I felt it would apply to all work forces.


----------



## Probie

Question I have been going over the dnd page...do they still have housing for married personel ? When I was in the service we had a 3 bedroom pmq. I see they still pay for moves....what about meals and rooms when you are in training?


----------



## MikeL

Probie said:
			
		

> Question I have been going over the dnd page...do they still have housing for married personel ? When I was in the service we had a 3 bedroom pmq.



Yes PMQs still exist,  and some are probably still in the same condition now as they were when you had one.



			
				Probie said:
			
		

> what about meals and rooms when you are in training?



If you are single you pay rations and quarters,  as far as I know if you are married you do not pay R&Q - but I could be wrong,  recently the CF stopped paying rations and quarters(or maybe it was only rations?) for married members on IR.  I am sure there is a large thread regarding this topic.

Also,  if you have time on Monday it would probably be in your best interest to call the CFRC.


----------



## Probie

Thank you ~Skeletor~ I will talk to my wife and see what her opinion is and if she is still on board I will give them a call. You have been a great help. 

Yes it seems to me that when I was in I had to pay for my R&Q, my PMQ was prorated to my salary at that time, groceries we bought ourselves and we paid our own phone.  ~ Probie


----------



## Probie

Does this really happen?



> We don't like it when older folks get in and actually do as they are told, work their asses off and can actually function without a iPhone welded to their thumbs. *When they get accelerated promoted and put on career courses faster than their younger peers due to the above shortcomings*.



And if so why and how.


----------



## OzairK

Well it doesnt matter what your age is, unless you dont qualify for the position you're interested in.
   I would say do what you like doing and good luck.


----------



## Sythen

Probie said:
			
		

> Does this really happen?
> 
> And if so why and how.



I doubt its a written rule anywhere, but *typically* older recruits would be more mature, level headed and with real world experience.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

I get bugged to rejoin my Reserve unit, but personally I think it's a plot for all of my Gunners I trained who are now MWO's, CWO's to extract their revenge on me by having me as a gunner again.


----------



## Probie

Well I guess I don't have to worry about it...as I said "If I can get the wife on board I would check it out." She never got on board...oh well.


----------



## srvn2sv

Keep trying Probie....to get her on board.  I finally broke mine down.  lol

I'm 43, a civilian paramedic looking for more, and just applied last month for Med Tech.  I know it's a different job, but will utilize some of my road experience, and all of my various related certifications.  I've been a road medic and I'm a damn good one, but I want to be a field medic.

Thank you all for the input, the suggestions and the content on this site.  For inspiring old guys to give it another shot, for giving me ways to once again learn the dreaded push up, and for just trying something before the door finally closes on this part of my life.

I've read the forum sections for the aptitude testing, but does anyone have any more suggestions on content, practice tests, studying, etc?

Also, how realistic are the various videos on youtube showing BMQ.  I VR'd out in 1988 after Basic at CFB Cornwallis due to family issues.  Is it pretty much the same?


----------



## zmc1985

Hello all,
i also would like to join the CF. I am currently working in the mining industry in northern ontario. i would like to ask for some opinions on 
how hard it would be for someone like myself that never really did any schooling. I got hired on after highschool at our local mine site
called BarrickHemlo. I am a open pit blaster, an im assuming the military doesnt have any related fields. lol  Any info on the matter will 
be very helpful 

Thanks


----------



## Maxadia

Age would probably have been a good thing to add in, but unless you're too old to finish training before the compulsory retirement age....no.


----------



## MMSS

zmc1985 said:
			
		

> . I am a open pit blaster, an im assuming the military doesnt have any related fields. lol



If you really like blowing things up, you might be interested in combat engineering or artillery. HMC ships and aircraft also carry more than a bit of explosive power.


----------



## Ticer32

Have a bunch of questions and had a bad experience when i was younger with a recruiter, so any tips, guidance or advice will be appreciated thanks.

I have just turned 32 and have always thought about join the forces.  Grew up going to Air Show's, playing flight simulators and even had my dad make me flash cards so i could identify mig's and sukuoi's easily haha.  I'd be third generation as my grandpa was a tail gunner in a Lancaster in WW2 and my uncle was Hornet pilot before he blew out his knee.  I went into a recruitment centre the day after my 18th birthday all ready to sign up to achieve my dream of being a pilot.  Well long story short the recruiter didn't even entertain the idea and tried the whole time to get me to sign up as a ground pounder.  I was willing to listen to other options, but because of he's instance of infantry or nothing, i walked out and always wondered what if.

Well now i'm 32, i Have 5 years experience as a Advanced Care Paramedic in major metro area and the desire to sign up is back again.  Although i know i can never be a pilot (i had laser eye surgery to correct my vision) i'm interested to get work as a medic in the military (With the Ultimate goal of either ending up doing Search and Rescue or JTF2).  Yes i know those two are the elite of the elite but thats my goal.

So with all that said (sorry about the length) heres a bunch of questions i have:
  -  Is 32 to old to enter as a NonCom?
  -  I will be 34-35 before i can try and get into SarTech or JTF2, is that two old to apply as well?
  -  If i sign up as a medic (because i'm an ACP and not a Primary Care medic) would i be able to skip the MCSP and go right to the MOC? 

Thanks for any insights, its greatly appreciated

Brad


----------



## Danjanou

Brad no you're not too old. Age and maturity ( not mutually exclusive)  and experience are valued by all employers including the  CF. Best bet is talk to a recruiter.


----------



## mariomike

Ticer32 said:
			
		

> -  If i sign up as a medic (because i'm an ACP and not a Primary Care medic) would i be able to skip the MCSP and go right to the MOC?



"MCSP is the Maintenance of Clinical Skills Programme.  It is now defunct.  It had been replaced by the MCRP, which is the Maintenance of Clinical Readiness Programme."
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107868/post-1180370.html#msg1180370

You may find these discussions of interest.

"Advanced Care Paramedic/ACLS":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105231.0
"My question is, if I enter as an ACP, how will my scope of practice/qualifications transfer over to the forces."

"semi skilled med tech applicant needs info":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81858/post-1021704/topicseen.html#msg1021704
"You will not be using the complete ACP skill set that you have acquired on civi-street in the CF as it was decided sometime ago not to go with a ACP skill set for our Med Techs but rather a skill based solution (AEC) that met our needs the CF (especially in the field) at the QL5A level."
"Even with PCP/ACP I suspect strongly that you will have to do the Clinical Phase of the QL3."
4 pages.


----------



## Motard

Ticer32 said:
			
		

> Although i know i can never be a pilot (i had laser eye surgery to correct my vision)



You can still be a pilot after having laser surgery as long as it wasn't the RK procedure.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-101 scroll to vision standards


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

Brad, I'm hoping you're not too old. I just received my offer for RMS and I am 49 years old.


----------



## Ciskman

The average Sar Tech is in their 30's. There have been successful candidates well into their 40's. So no, you are not to old.


----------



## miraclarke

I went through BMQ at 44yrs old. The worst that happened to me was being called Grampa up until our first fitness test. I was also asked how I was going to handle the whole BMQ situation. My reply was: "How many 44 yr olds can leave their wife and kids to go on a guilt free 14-week adventure with a bunch of 20yr olds? . . . and get paid for it?" It was the most fun I've had in my whole young life!! BTW: I finished 3rd in a platoon that started with 64. I sincerely believe it's 90% attitude. Love this career choice!!


----------



## BeyondTheNow

PrettyMaggie63 said:
			
		

> Brad, I'm hoping you're not too old. I just received my offer for RMS and I am 49 years old.



That's fantastic! Good for you, a true example of only being as old as you feel!


----------



## BeyondTheNow

miraclarke said:
			
		

> I went through BMQ at 44yrs old. The worst that happened to me was being called Grampa up until our first fitness test. I was also asked how I was going to handle the whole BMQ situation. My reply was: "How many 44 yr olds can leave their wife and kids to go on a guilt free 14-week adventure with a bunch of 20yr olds? . . . and get paid for it?" It was the most fun I've had in my whole young life!! BTW: I finished 3rd in a platoon that started with 64. I sincerely believe it's 90% attitude. Love this career choice!!



That just made my day, great post! :nod:


----------



## tmckendry

I have a question which a quick search couldn't resolve. It isn't to do with age per say, but under the scope of this thread. I'll start off with a quick introduction; I'm 24, bcomm graduate, I've been supporting myself playing poker and traveling the world for the past 3 years. I'm becoming less interested in poker and would like to find a new challenge. I've been recommended to check out CF twice in the past year.

I'm curious about the culture at CF (particularly Pilots/Logistic officers). Whenever I mention to friends or family I'm interested in CF, they reply that I would probably dislike the culture. Obviously there is structure and a hierarchy. These are two things I have lacked exposure to in the last few years, but don't necessarily dislike. They seem to think that I would spend most of my time taking orders/doing things that I don't agree with.. This is something that would bother me. Is this what it's like as a LogO or Pilot?


----------



## PMedMoe

tmckendry said:
			
		

> They seem to think that I would spend most of my time taking orders/doing things that I don't agree with.. This is something that would bother me. Is this what it's like as a LogO or Pilot?



That's pretty much what it's like for everyone in the CF.  You will have to take orders from someone higher.


----------



## Ostrozac

tmckendry said:
			
		

> I'm curious about the culture at CF (particularly Pilots/Logistic officers). Whenever I mention to friends or family I'm interested in CF, they reply that I would probably dislike the culture. Obviously there is structure and a hierarchy. These are two things I have lacked exposure to in the last few years, but don't necessarily dislike. They seem to think that I would spend most of my time taking orders/doing things that I don't agree with.. This is something that would bother me. Is this what it's like as a LogO or Pilot?



Well, in the CF you do what you're told. You don't get to set your own agenda or priorities. This is common in many career paths, public sector and private sector. Bankers work for the bank. Airline pilots fly their routes. Professional hockey players get traded. That's not really a "culture" thing -- it's more a characteristic of working in a structured environment.

What is the "culture" of the Reg Force? Be prepared to get transferred every few years. Work hard and do your part. Travel, taskings, field time and sea time are all potentially part of the mix. But different units will have vastly different cultures: the culture of a tactical helicopter unit in Valcartier is different from that of the challenger jet squadron in Ottawa. Being a logistics officer in the navy will feel very different from being the quartermaster of a mechanized infantry battalion.

So it's hard to generalize.


----------



## Container

tmckendry said:
			
		

> They seem to think that I would spend most of my time taking orders/doing things that I don't agree with.. This is something that would bother me. Is this what it's like as a LogO or Pilot?



How can you have an opinion on what you agree with? You have no training or experience in either job? That seems like a major hurdle.


----------



## chrisf

tmckendry said:
			
		

> They seem to think that I would spend most of my time taking orders/doing things that I don't agree with..



What makes you think you wouldn't agree with the orders?


----------



## tmckendry

Thanks for the feedback guys. I spent some time looking to blogs/journals of some officers and got a better feel for what life in the CF.



			
				a Sig Op said:
			
		

> What makes you think you wouldn't agree with the orders?



Two ways: 

Orders will be given to complete a task in a way that I think is sub-optimal. I also figure that if I made a suggestion on what I think is more efficient that I would be ignored and/or disciplined. Is this a reasonable assumption?

Orders to complete a task that I don't believe is worth doing. Obviously this is subjective.. I'd  expect this is any structured career, and can deal with it. However, I expect more of it in the CF or public sector compared to say a small business. Thoughts?  


[/quote]





			
				Container said:
			
		

> How can you have an opinion on what you agree with? You have no training or experience in either job? That seems like a major hurdle.



I don't understand this question. 

If your implying that I can't know what the culture of the CF(LogO/Pilot) until I go experience it for myself... I agree.

I'm trying to get as much information as I can about issues important to me before I make any decisions.


----------



## Guelph

miraclarke said:
			
		

> I went through BMQ at 44yrs old. The worst that happened to me was being called Grampa up until our first fitness test. I was also asked how I was going to handle the whole BMQ situation. My reply was: "How many 44 yr olds can leave their wife and kids to go on a guilt free 14-week adventure with a bunch of 20yr olds? . . . and get paid for it?" It was the most fun I've had in my whole young life!! BTW: I finished 3rd in a platoon that started with 64. I sincerely believe it's 90% attitude. Love this career choice!!



That just f'n SEALED it for me. THANK YOU!


----------



## Loachman

tmckendry said:
			
		

> Orders will be given to complete a task in a way that I think is sub-optimal. I also figure that if I made a suggestion on what I think is more efficient that I would be ignored and/or disciplined. Is this a reasonable assumption?



Depending on your experience level, the personal characteristics of your boss, and your position, you will have a fair amount of "say".

We expect all aircrew, regardless of rank, to participate fully in missions. Suggestions, and post-mission constructive critique, are encouraged as that leads to improvements in mission accomplishment and safety for all.

I have considerable latitude in making decisions.

We are not lobotomized in the recruiting centre.

Beheading people for voicing an opinion was removed from the list of offences and punishments at least two years ago.



			
				tmckendry said:
			
		

> Orders to complete a task that I don't believe is worth doing. Obviously this is subjective.. I'd  expect this is any structured career, and can deal with it. However, I expect more of it in the CF or public sector compared to say a small business. Thoughts?



You may or may not be privy to all of the information used in the decision-making process. Information-passage, analysis, and decision-making is far better in the CF than in most civilian organizations.

I have not always agreed with higher decisions, but I generally understand the reasons behind them and therefore accept them. I have never been the blindly-obediant sort, but have had no problem with supporting my commanding officer's/commander's direction.

We expect people to think. Automatons would not survive for long in our environment.

I have enjoyed a lot of freedom, variety, flexibility, satisfaction, and responsibility during my career. I cannot imagine finding anywhere nearly as much anywhere else.


----------



## tmckendry

Loachman, your reply was extremely well-written and informative. Thank you.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Loachman said:
			
		

> Depending on your experience level, the personal characteristics of your boss, and your position, you will have a fair amount of "say".
> 
> We expect all aircrew, regardless of rank, to participate fully in missions. Suggestions, and post-mission constructive critique, are encouraged as that leads to improvements in mission accomplishment and safety for all.
> 
> I have considerable latitude in making decisions.
> 
> We are not lobotomized in the recruiting centre.
> 
> Beheading people for voicing an opinion was removed from the list of offences and punishments at least two years ago.
> 
> You may or may not be privy to all of the information used in the decision-making process. Information-passage, analysis, and decision-making is far better in the CF than in most civilian organizations.
> 
> I have not always agreed with higher decisions, but I generally understand the reasons behind them and therefore accept them. I have never been the blindly-obediant sort, but have had no problem with supporting my commanding officer's/commander's direction.
> 
> We expect people to think. Automatons would not survive for long in our environment.
> 
> I have enjoyed a lot of freedom, variety, flexibility, satisfaction, and responsibility during my career. I cannot imagine finding anywhere nearly as much anywhere else.



This is from a very experienced officer. And to show just how wrong your friends may have it, I wholeheartedly agree with his post, as a Sgt (well former I guess now) with only 12 years experience, I had a very wide latitude in which I could operate, so long as the 'mission' was accomplished. I was expected to think on my feet, and if something was fishy, to say so, and therefore play a big role in the critical thought process for many plans. I have seen, first hand, where orders were given that would have killed someone, and luckily the young cpl had his head screwed on right and say 'umm, NO!' and is alive to this day.


----------



## bitBYbit

Hi folks,

I need your advice. I was a Loyal Eddie back in the 90's and loved it. But I gave it up because my marriage was falling apart. Now I'm 46, my new wife digs the sh#t out of me, my career is set and I want to get back in. Here's the thing: the CF is just coming down from Afghanistan and I would hate for the guys to think that I sat it out because I was afraid. Or that I want back in because all the hard work and sacrifice is over. What do you think, honestly, of how I will be accepted?

Also, in the 90's there were very few courses available in the combat arms for reservists. Is that still true?

I appreciate any help you can give me. I'm really twisting myself up over this.


----------



## AKa

BitBYbit,

Apply now, don't wait.  Nobody will look down on you for taking a pause.  Given the demands of Reserve service, I am always humbled by the number of fine people willing to spend their free hours serving the Queen.

There's lots of hard work and sacrifice left.  

Cheers,

AK


----------



## bitBYbit

Thanks AK!

I appreciate the response. Went to the armoury last night to see what I could see. Some questions answered some not. One thing I found out is their BMQ is not a weekend course and runs this fall in Wainwright.  Could not find the recruiter anywhere. I'll be calling 310-ARMY I guess. Can't find a listed phone number for the LER.


----------



## DAA

bitBYbit said:
			
		

> Can't find a listed phone number for the LER.



The Loyal Edmonton Regiment (4th Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry) 
Brigadier James Curry Jefferson Bldg, Armoury Support Centre, room 103, 11630 - 109 Street NW 
Edmonton, Alberta
T5G 2T8

Phone: 780-973-4011 ext 6443


----------



## bitBYbit

DAA where did you get that number? Even google and 411 were stymied. Many thanks though! I called 41 CBG today and left a message (310-ARMY). I'll call the unit tomorrow.


----------



## Duckman54

32 had BETTER not be too old!!  lol

Posts by miraclark, Guelph and others are very encouraging.

I just turned 39 in April, applying for DEO Pilot... passed all so far, passed Aircrew Selection in Trenton last month, awaiting Selection Board on June 24th and hopefully job-offer soon after. Thinking positive, and fully expecting BMOQ in Sept... (winter in Quebec! Yay!)  little nervous, but mainly PUMPED!  Thankfully have support of wife/family that knows I live to fly  (Comm/Multi-IFR already) and can't stand my current gig.  Like was said earlier, do this and get PAID??  Sign me up!

As for fitting in?    Attitude is everything. I'm fully aware I'm gonna be yelled at while at CFLRS by younger folks. Just gotta respect their experience. Just like getting 'evaluated' by younger flight instructors. Going in as open-minded as possible. Sure I've got lotsa life experience, but this will be completely foreign to anything I've done before.... just convinced myself I'm gonna learn to do stuff THEIR way...  I don't think I'll have any problem respecting some younger fella's 10-15 years experience!  

After all, when I was fresh outta University (and knew everything! lol), I expected others to respect my knowledge/training even tho I was younger...

'Greg.


----------



## UnwiseCritic

Bitbybit, I don't think anyone will think that you chose to sit out on afghanistan. If someone does think that they are probably an incompetent moron whose opinion doesn't matter. The only way people would think less of you is if you can't do your job.

As for fitting in as an old guy, they usually get respected. We had a 48 year old on my course and there was even a 55 year old on the course ahead of us. They were more fit the most of the younger people. And the nice thing about them is they were a lot calmer. It is strange to see a 25 year old scream at an older person. But from what I saw is they were usually given more space and different kinds of punishment than the younger people.


----------



## bitBYbit

Well I did go to the Armoury this past Wednesday. And I still couldn't locate the 41 CBG recruiter. So I went looking, turned left instead of right and ended up in the SALH office. Not by chance. Gave it a lot of thought in the last while. Anyway, paperwork is in and here we go!


----------



## safetysOff

> Am I too old to join/do well/fit in?



Yes, don,t bother.


----------



## muskrat89

> Yes, don,t bother.



You have less than 20 posts and about half of them contain some caustic tripe. Learn to contribute in a constructive manner or you will be on your way.

Army.ca Staff


----------



## srvn2sv

bitBYbit,

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread (will later) but FYI...I'm 44.  Applied last year as a Med Tech still waiting on PLAR.   Thinking of using my 18 years of street medic skill in a new role with 2 Field Amb (at least that's where I'd like to go).  You're never too old.   And for the days that you feel too old.....I'll carry you.

I'm not worried about being yelled at by someone younger, my 33 year old wife's been doing that for years.  lol

See you out there.

srvn2sv


----------



## sfbruner

I am very interested in joining the reserves at 33 years old. I must admit I am a little concerned about having kids much younger than me barking orders at me but I am prepared to accept this fact of military structure.

I have a few questions that I am hoping someone might be able to answer for me, but first let me tell you a bit about myself.

I am currently working as a structural engineer and quite happy with my chosen profession on many levels but at the same time I feel there is a void in my life. Long story short I have always wanted to join the military but at the same time I was worried about family life in the military and this has always kept me away. I have my regrets now as I strongly believe I was built for a military career and only in the military would i feel truly happy and challenged. I know how naive this may sound from someone with no military experience but those are my true feelings. 

Instead of focusing on what could have been but wasn't I would like to now join up with the local reserve unit.

I have a masters degree in bridge design and 8 years experience. I have a wife and a little girl, a mortgage, a car, just like every other average joe out there. I think im physically fit, I work out and I play hockey 3 times a week. I am also a firearms owner and have experience with all types of firearms. I very much enjoy shooting and hunting.

Lastly, I have no known medical issues except for poor vision. I am -4 and -3 in my eyes with a little bit of astigmatism.

What are my chances of getting accepted and how long does the process normally take?
How common is it to see professionals in their 30s or.older joining up?
I am interested in DEO, what is the demand like for DEOs in the reserves?
What are the expectations in the reserves for time commitment? I have been reading its one weekend and 4.days per month?

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

sfbruner said:
			
		

> I must admit I am a little concerned about having kids much younger than me barking orders at me but I am prepared to accept this fact of military structure.



You may find this discussion of interest. 

Am I too old to join/do well/fit in? (Merged thread) 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87496.0


----------



## Ciskman

sfbruner said:
			
		

> I am very interested in joining the reserves at 33 years old. I must admit I am a little concerned about having kids much younger than me barking orders at me but I am prepared to accept this fact of military structure.
> 
> I have a few questions that I am hoping someone might be able to answer for me, but first let me tell you a bit about myself.
> 
> I am currently working as a structural engineer and quite happy with my chosen profession on many levels but at the same time I feel there is a void in my life. Long story short I have always wanted to join the military but at the same time I was worried about family life in the military and this has always kept me away. I have my regrets now as I strongly believe I was built for a military career and only in the military would i feel truly happy and challenged. I know how naive this may sound from someone with no military experience but those are my true feelings.
> 
> Instead of focusing on what could have been but wasn't I would like to now join up with the local reserve unit.
> 
> I have a masters degree in bridge design and 8 years experience. I have a wife and a little girl, a mortgage, a car, just like every other average joe out there. I think im physically fit, I work out and I play hockey 3 times a week. I am also a firearms owner and have experience with all types of firearms. I very much enjoy shooting and hunting.
> 
> Lastly, I have no known medical issues except for poor vision. I am -4 and -3 in my eyes with a little bit of astigmatism.
> 
> What are my chances of getting accepted and how long does the process normally take?
> How common is it to see professionals in their 30s or.older joining up?
> I am interested in DEO, what is the demand like for DEOs in the reserves?
> What are the expectations in the reserves for time commitment? I have been reading its one weekend and 4.days per month?
> 
> Thanks



Contrary to popular belief, 33 is not old. Don't let your thoughts on age deter you from your goals. Good luck.


----------



## Monsoon

sfbruner said:
			
		

> What are my chances of getting accepted and how long does the process normally take?


There is lots of discussion on this forum on this topic, but the unsatisfying answers are "it depends" and "it depends". Mainly, the dependencies are what unit you want to join, what trade you want to join as, and whether that unit has recruiting positions for that trade. Only the recruiting centre can answer those questions.



> How common is it to see professionals in their 30s or.older joining up?


While it's not that common for people to _join_ as already-qualified professionals (except in specialty trades like JAG) as they typically can't get the time off required for the blocks of full-time training, you won't feel out of place. My reserve unit has a couple of lawyers, a few engineers and an emergency room doctor (mostly as NCMs) who joined while they were studying.



> I am interested in DEO, what is the demand like for DEOs in the reserves?


Same answer as for your first question, with a quibble: DEO is an officer entry plan (the only alternative in current use is RESO). What you're saying is that you want to join in an officer trade. Again, the demand all depends on the specific demand of the unit you want to join. All other things being equal, units typically don't discriminate between RESO or DEO candidates on the basis of their entry plan.



> What are the expectations in the reserves for time commitment? I have been reading its one weekend and 4.days per month?


The boilerplate answer is one evening a week and one weekend (or just Saturday) per month during the Sep - Apr training year, but this format varies from unit to unit. I assume that you understand from your research that a significant full-time training requirement of several months exists for officer candidates.



> I am very interested in joining the reserves at 33 years old. I must admit I am a little concerned about having kids much younger than me barking orders at me but I am prepared to accept this fact of military structure.


Would a 45-year-old new engineer be put out by having a 33-year-old experienced engineer tell him how to build bridges? No difference: you're learning a new skill set.


----------



## sfbruner

Thank you all for your replies. Regarding the full-time commitment for officers, is there no part-time weekend option like BMQ? I would appreciate any input on the length of full time training required or direction to a thread containing more information on this.

Thanks.


----------



## Kat Stevens

"I am currently working as a structural engineer and quite happy with my chosen profession on many levels but at the same time I feel there is a void in my life"


I see what you did there.


----------



## Teager

This thread may help. See reply #9

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109795/post-103985/topicseen.html#msg103985


----------



## The Bread Guy

sfbruner said:
			
		

> I am very interested in joining the reserves at 33 years old ....


As you can see from previous posts in this thread your question is now a part of, older folks than yourself have survived and thrived in the CF.

Good luck!


----------



## sfbruner

Thanks everyone. It is clear there is a wealth of knowledge on here and I think its time for me to practice my resourcefulness.


----------



## chrisf

sfbruner said:
			
		

> I am very interested in joining the reserves at 33 years old. I must admit I am a little concerned about having kids much younger than me barking orders at me but I am prepared to accept this fact of military structure.



If you get in, prepare to have your mind blown by the knowledge and experience of some of the "kids"....

Military experience often matures and builds the experience of it's members far faster than anything else...

Consider for a moment... in a "normal" job, it could be a very long time, if ever, before you end up in a supervisory position...

If a reservist joins at 16, "normal" career progression would see them qualified and likely in charge of a "section" (Usually 8-10) of soldiers by age 21, and given the regular shortages of personnel on reserve exercises, it's not at all impossible they'd be expected to act as second in command of a platoon (Usually 30 or so troops).

While experience and age is always an asset, you'd be amazed how young NCOs can rise to the occasion, and build on that experience very quickly...

Also consider that same reservist, by age 28 would be eligible for their first long service medal....


----------



## pbi

sfbruner said:
			
		

> I am very interested in joining the reserves at 33 years old. I must admit I am a little concerned about having kids much younger than me barking orders at me but I am prepared to accept this fact of military structure.



sfbruner: You sound like an excellent candidate, one that any Res unit would be very pleased to have. Having started off in the Reserve, served a career in the Regular Army, then finishing up in the Res once more, I would offer a few caveats to think hard about. These caveats reflect the typical causes for attrition in older recruits:

-What does your wife think? Does she have a clear (and, I mean, CLEAR) understanding of what your committment will mean? If you have young kids, the loss of weekends, some week nights and time in the summer might weigh heavily on your family situation. Get this part squared away, or you may be sorry down the track;

-what does your employer think about it? What will their reaction be if you need to ask for time for training, or if you wanted to do a tour, or if your unit responds to a domestic emergency? Will you still have a job? Be honest with your employer: you have built a professional career which is probably not really worth risking so you can be in the Reserve; and 

-are you prepared, as a highly trained and responsible professional,  to be "not in charge" of the situation, and to discover that your input is neither wanted nor valued? It does happen, sometimes, especially in entry-level training. If you're used to being "the boss", it can be disorienting and frustrating.

If you are good to go with all these, then good luck. It is an honourable and rewarding choice.

Cheers


----------



## Curve.Ball

Hello all, 

I realize similar questions have been posted in previous threads, however I am searching for advice specific to my situation that'll give me that warm fuzzy feeling I'm looking for........

I'm married (which is irrelevant), 39 years old and the proud dad of a teenaged daughter. Both my parents are ex-airforce and my wifes' father is ex-army. All served for over 30 years each. Needless to say the forces are in my blood. I am well established in a career within the oil and gas sectors of industry (15 years in, now) and the CF will never pay the salary ranges and benefits I have enjoyed thus far.

However, in recent years, largely on account of the experiences and sacrifices made by friends and relatives who are currently serving (one of whom was JTF), I am unable and unwilling to shed the need I feel to commit the rest of my working life to serving my country as forces member. 

My question to all you good folks is: _*am I insane?*_ 

I receive so much questioning and resistance to this idea from many different angles that I sometimes question the validity of this choice I am about to make. Is it feasible to "drop" everything and make such an abrupt change like that? 

I have a fairly extensive list of trade and professional qualifications and certifications that I know will apply to various roles in the forces, and as well I am certain that I can handle BMQ (heavy breathing inevitable). Is the "need" and desire I have to serve my country and embark on a career that I think will fullfil me to a level higher than what I am experiencing now a mere dream and silly idea, or would the concensus be "GO FOR IT!"? 

Any thoughts or advice you can send my way will be greatly appreciated. 

Cheers


----------



## The Bread Guy

Only you can make the decision for yourself, based on your circumstances, but I'm going to merge your post into another thread showing that if you meet the criteria to get in, age _doesn't_ have to be an issue at all.

Also, you're not alone - it's not uncommon to be taking a different look at life once you get a certain number of years under your belt.

Good luck.


----------



## Northalbertan

Curve.Ball said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> I realize similar questions have been posted in previous threads, however I am searching for advice specific to my situation that'll give me that warm fuzzy feeling I'm looking for........
> 
> I'm married (which is irrelevant), 39 years old and the proud dad of a teenaged daughter. Both my parents are ex-airforce and my wifes' father is ex-army. All served for over 30 years each. Needless to say the forces are in my blood. I am well established in a career within the oil and gas sectors of industry (15 years in, now) and the CF will never pay the salary ranges and benefits I have enjoyed thus far.
> 
> However, in recent years, largely on account of the experiences and sacrifices made by friends and relatives who are currently serving (one of whom was JTF), I am unable and unwilling to shed the need I feel to commit the rest of my working life to serving my country as forces member.
> 
> My question to all you good folks is: _*am I insane?*_
> 
> I receive so much questioning and resistance to this idea from many different angles that I sometimes question the validity of this choice I am about to make. Is it feasible to "drop" everything and make such an abrupt change like that?
> 
> I have a fairly extensive list of trade and professional qualifications and certifications that I know will apply to various roles in the forces, and as well I am certain that I can handle BMQ (heavy breathing inevitable). Is the "need" and desire I have to serve my country and embark on a career that I think will fullfil me to a level higher than what I am experiencing now a mere dream and silly idea, or would the concensus be "GO FOR IT!"?
> 
> Any thoughts or advice you can send my way will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers



I too am working in the "patch", in rural Alberta, I don't know where you reside.  I also felt the need to contribute a few years ago.  I looked for a primary reserve unit near me but the closest was Edmonton or Saskatoon, a 2 1/2 hour drive either way made this impracticle.  The route I took was the CIC.  I feel I am serving my country and my community and believe it or not a lot of the training I have received has applied to my civie job, and vice versa.  

It helps to have a good employer who is willing to give you the time off for training.  As a CIC officer you are not deployable, you will be training kids, having an effect on Canada's future leaders (hopefully).  If you are not located near a primary reserve unit it is an option.  Whichever you you go I wish you all the best.

Northalbertan


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Curve.Ball said:
			
		

> ...I am unable and unwilling to shed the need I feel to commit the rest of my working life to serving my country as forces member...



I think the above portion speaks volumes.

You're not too old nor are you insane.  Your age should be very beneficial during the transition process, should you decide to join and are accepted. The fact that you are willing to do away with some of the advantages and probably the lifestyle you've grown accustomed to means, to me, that you've weighed the pros and cons and you can see yourself gaining from this new direction in life, and the superficial aspects don't matter.

If your gut is nagging at you constantly and you are no longer fulfilled with your current placement, go with it. If you are able to draw upon the knowledge and experience from the past serving members around you, then that is a huge bonus, IMO.

For the most part, I haven't met any resistance from those who know of my career plans who are close to me. However, I still get the occasional, "Wow, you're brave." Or "Ohhhhhh...." (You know, one of those not-saying-it's-a-bad-idea,-but-I-think-it's-a-bad-idea sort of responses.) At the risk of sounding really lame/sappy, that's okay, because I know what I want and the people who love me most know that I want it--They know I won't be happy doing something secondary to where my passion is.

Now, if there are some reservations among your wife and daughter, it might take some convincing to get them on board. (Hopefully there isn't/won't be much disagreement.  But if there is, I don't think anyone can tell you to do something that will throw your family into complete discord; but I understand your need to seek insight from others and see how things progress.) In the end, however, I truly believe you (or anyone) will be a happier person, a happier father and husband if you're doing something that you feel awards you the feeling of true purpose. 'Can't beat that feeling...


----------



## Curve.Ball

Thank you all for the quick responses thus far. I was expecting to have to wait a few days for someone to reply to this , hehe. 

The sentiment normally conveyed to me is that I should consider the reserve force first, and continue into reg force if things "work out". Despite my overwhelming desire to jump feet first into a reg force role, I tend to think that this is actually a sound piece of advice, given my family life, career situation etc. Too, it comes directly from current or ex-military friends of mine, and so I am reluctant to brush off or dismiss that information.

I live very close to Red Deer, Alberta, and there is a reserve unit (Cormack Armoury) in town. My father-in-law used to belong to that unit after he retired from reg force. I can only assume that the folks in Red Deer would do excersises or other such training with the units in Edmonton or Calgary, so a smallish commute once a month or whatever the situation is would'nt be a huge deal for me specifically, in my mind. I work a 7 days off, 7 days on schedule where I am at now (and ironically, I work on the Air Weapons Range north of Cold Lake), so I suppose I am wondering if a schedule like that can be accomodated in the reserves? I assume it can be.

I do have a contact name of a guy at that unit that I am supposed to go see, and I will do that in my next set of days off. The advantage of utilizing a forum such as this at first, is that I can get a feel for ideas and solicite input that might better prepare me for a Q&A when I speak to a person there face to face.  

As a side note, I do have some areas of interest I'd like to look at, and I suspect that all of them would afford me the opportunity to volunteer to serve overseas at some point. If I am accepted into the system, my full intent is to volunteer for a combat mission(s) at some point in the not-too-distant future. I am assuming, based on history, that an opportunity like that will likely present itself in my time of service. I am also assuming that a reservist can do that. I know they say reserve forces can volunteer for a combat mission, but I am unlcear if there are a certain set of criteria for that, or even if reserves are used on as as needed basis or whatever? I really have no idea. 

Anyway, thanks again all for the good words and advice so far. It puts my mind at ease big time to know I am not in a one man club with my deal and that others have joined up from similar backgrounds and situations. 

Cheers


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Best of luck moving forward, and I hope it works out for you as planned. (Or at least as close to it as possible.)

I have also read that joining a Reserve unit is an excellent option for people who are in similar circumstances as yourself. Unfortunately, I don't know a lot about their processes (other than what I've picked up here) nor can I speak from any first-hand experience. I have a brother who served for over 10+ years as a Reservist, but I can't confidently and/or accurately speak of his experiences; therefore, I tend not to offer much in terms of going that route.

Again, I hope all works out for you as things move along.


----------



## Curve.Ball

Thank you. 

I guess I am similar to a lot of others, in that we want to be a part of something that is so much larger and bigger than the self. Unless my view point is misguided in some way, I have an obligation directly to my daughter to do this. The reason for this is that in today's Canada, as a nation of free people who generally have never seen truly chaotic times, we are quite "spoiled" for lack of a better term. We have raised generations of people now who completely misunderstand the impact that various negative entities around the globe have on us now and into the future, and the needs to eliminate or manage those entities to protect our sacred ways of life over *here*. So, to that end, it is very important to me to show my daughter first hand the importance of making this commitment and sacrifice, and to show her that we need to be willing to step up and do something to earn and/or keep that freedom.


----------



## 556

I'm so glad to have found this particular series of posts. Being 39 as well, I have had a lot of time to think about my role in the 'greater' scheme of things. I spent a year as an Infantry Reservist a while back and had to leave due to unforeseen forces (though I left in good standing) and it lingers as one of my biggest regrets. I have spent the past 10 years thinking about and even dreaming about rejoining. Now that I know it is the right time for this decision I am finally starting the process. The way I see it, I still have 20 years until mandatory retirement.
Of course now I just need to decide between applying as an Officer in an armoured recce Reg, or humping it in a combat engineer Reg. To be honest though I am just at the age where I am more concerned about serving and being of use than personal aggrandizement. 
Anyway, this post is probably unnecessary, but what the hell. I don't really have anyone else around that really 'gets' it.
Cheers.


----------



## mkil

On my BMQ, the woman who won top female athlete was a 4 foot 9, 44 year old mother of 6, grandmother of 8. She showed up absolutely ripped from head to toe and put every single person on our platoon to shame when it came to physical training. No joke. She was also a smoker.


----------



## Lockeport FD

This board was actually a good read.  I left a reserve group close to a quarter century ago and have kicked myself in the pants at least once a year ever since.  I'm 43 now but I know I could still give the young fellers a run for their money   I live in a more rural area now - I might have to check and see what is available without too much of a commute.


----------



## Van Gogh

Curve.Ball said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> My question to all you good folks is: _*am I insane?*_
> 
> Any thoughts or advice you can send my way will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers



Short answer, I think you are actually very sane !!!
More sane that a lot of people who actually work 9-5 and the only reason they do it is to support themselves with no other goal/motivation in their life. That would be pretty depressing for me If my life turned out that way.

P.S. Not bashing in any way hard working people, everyone who works deserves a lot of respect !!!


----------



## Marchog

> More sane that a lot of people who actually work 9-5 and the only reason they do it is to support themselves with no other goal/motivation in their life. That would be pretty depressing for me If my life turned out that way.


Couldn't agree more. 

Some people think I'm nuts for trying to join the army (even the PR) because I can't gain much from it. Because apparently personal gain is the only reason to do something.


----------



## D-C

Hello everyone,
I'm thinking of getting back in and I'm contemplating on whether I'm to old. If there is anyone out there that has just rejoined and is around my age let me know of your experiences.
Thanks,
D-C


----------



## matthew709

i would say if you can do what needs to be done then why not go for it. more the merrier


----------



## 421_434_226

I rejoined at 52, so in my opinion 45 is not too old at all.


----------



## The Bread Guy

You're not alone in this - I'm merging this with a thread full of comment from all sorts of folks who've taken up service later in life.  Browse, learn and good luck, whatever you do!

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## xo31@711ret

a good childhood friend of mine left the COATS (hope I got that right; was the CIC when I retired from the regs) before Christmas after many years as a CIC officier. She  left for Saint Jean this week as a pte (recruit) to start her basic. I'll be 50 in a couple months, so she'll be 49 sometime this year.  Good luck!


----------



## FAL

Wow. This thread just gave me barrels a cement truck full of hope. I have begun the process of applying. I don't even want to say how old I am. Fitness? I am thrilled to see the new physical fitness testing standards. I always sucked at pushups, and could not find any great correlation between them and combat readiness. 

However, I was away from the gym for three months, and went back for three visits in a few weeks, and could deadlift 455 pounds. Actually, on my second visit, I did 405 for ten reps. Ironic that the old fitness standards involving having massive pecs and little else (this is an exaggeration) were hard for me to achieve. I have recently jogged a couple miles in my steel-shank, steel-toe heavy work boots. After walking a couple miles to my nearest favorite place to get my 32oz. drink refilled.

I have occasionally thought of being in the middle of a firefight, when the Taliban demands that we all drop and do fifty pushups. Oh, and a hundred situps. Then strip off all our gear and run for twenty miles.

The new stuff:

The FORCE Evaluation consists of four test components, each designed to measure different physical capabilities:

Sandbag Lift: 30 consecutive lifts of a 20 kilogram sandbag above a height of 1 metre, alternating between left and right sandbags separated by 1.25 metres. Standard: 3 minutes 30 seconds.

Intermittent Loaded Shuttles: Using the 20 metre lines, complete ten 20 metre shuttles alternating between a loaded shuttle with a 20 kilogram sand bag and unloaded shuttles, for a total of 400 metres. Standard: 5 minutes 21 seconds.

20-Metre Rushes: Starting from prone, complete two 20 metre shuttle sprints dropping to a prone position every 10 metres, for a total of 80 metres. Standard: 51 seconds.

Sandbag Drag: Carry one 20 kilogram sandbag and pull four on the floor over 20 mtres without stopping. Standard: Complete without stopping. 

As the 20kg weight is less than 1/10th of what I can lift, I think I will work on my sprint/rest aerobic training.

Advice? Just specifically advice about what I can do to become more physically prepared. I thought it was going to be situps, chinups, and pushups.

As you may have guessed, I am male.


----------



## DAA

FAL said:
			
		

> Wow. This thread just gave me barrels a cement truck full of hope. I have begun the process of applying. I don't even want to say how old I am. Advice? Just specifically advice about what I can do to become more physically prepared.



So after cutting out the crap from your post which really wasn't relevant........

Here's my :2c:  Age is never a barrier and hasn't been for quite sometime.  So submit your oneline application now if not already done.

Advice?  On being physically prepared, keep doing what you're doing and then be prepared for a long wait.


----------



## MacIssac

I know I have said this more then once in the last few days and I'm sorry in advance to the staff and moderators however I find this channel on youtube very helpful Basic Up
 As even with the question about age, this season 2 of Basic up on youtube talks about one gentleman who joined i think in his early fifties and has done very well - hope this helps 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_O8wlviARE&list=PLF562C684AD920551


----------



## OntR

I'm in a similar situation. I have had the goal of rejoining the Primary Reserve for about 4 years now, as a Signals Officer. I was previously in Armoured, many, many, years ago. I'm happy to say I finally passed all my physical, aptitude, interviews, preliminary medicals, even got approval from my hopefully soon to be C.O. I did uncover a problem with my vision, however. I was initially denied on this matter but appealing the decision with the support of my doctors. I'd say the vision thing is the hardest part of re-applying at a later age. As everyone else on this list has said, however, go for it. I was worried about age as well but then reassured I was in prime condition by the physical testing instructor. That was really nice encouragement. I'll post something on the eye decision once I find out. It's a condition that has come up a few times on this list and the CF doesn't have a clear answer on it. I'm hoping it sorts itself out. 

And, I'm new to this list. So, thanks to the folks that run this site and thanks to all of you, and your families, serving in the CF. You don't get enough recognition for what you do.


----------



## tatter396

I'm 43 and have just finished interview stage of the application process. Everything has been going well except I've been asked on two occasions by different recruiters if I'm sure I want to put my body through such a physically demanding trade when there are so many other less physical trades to choose from. The people who have gone through it obviously have the knowledge here, so here's my questions. How long could I potentially be a combat engineer or infantry soldier..could I go to age 60 or is that unheard of ? Is one less harder than the other ? Should I look for another trade  I could go to retirement in ? I find traffic tech and boatswain also interesting. I'm just looking for any advice from those who really know how the military works...Thanks


----------



## devil39

Having over 30 years of service and currently a Regular Force Infantry Officer, both are physically demanding trades.  While not impossible to join at 43 and serve until 55 or 60, personal experience tells me that the human body is more apt to accept the occasionally (or sometimes often?)  brutal physical demands of the infantry under the age of 40.  

Regular Force or Reserve might make a difference....I assume you are looking at Reg Force?

Looking back at the demands of Infantry Officer training, and currently living in a beat up 47 year old human body, at this age I would probably pick an interesting trade that did not require, as one of the primary assets, subjecting one's body to often outrageous physical abuse and stress.


----------



## PPCLI Guy

51 year old grunt here, and Devil39 has it right.  You do have the advantage of a 43 yr old buddy that has not yet been "infantryed", but as you age, your recuperation time gets quite a bit longer.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Traffic Tech has many opportunities for travel, as well as the possibility to become a Load Master on certain aircraft in the RCAF.

Remember, the 2 different lifestyles between Army (*dig in*) and Air Force (*check in* 8)).  Having lived both, and being the same age as you, I'm glad I have a plane to carry around the stuff I need to do my job now.


----------



## Tibbson

I concur totally with what the others have had to say and I couldn't say it any better.  I will add one more bit of info for you to consider.  As someone joining at 43 you will not be able to build any sort of pension because you don't have the possibility of putting in the required 25 years.  In fact, you will be able to serve less then 20 until you hit the best case scenario of working till 60.  For many, age, aches, pains, family considerations and other factors arise causing us to look at releasing (retiring with a pension if possible) well before age 60.  

I'd personally recommend you consider another trade that will give you some sort of skill set you can use in the civilian sector.  In that way, when you look to release or should you have to release you will be able to transition into an effective civilian position to be able to support yourself and/or family.


----------



## tatter396

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I very much appreciate all the advice.


----------



## crossroads78

Looking for advice from those who know or can relate. 

I'm 34, have a family of 4 and have built a successful career as a business leader and executive. I'm a strong leader and feel I'd do well in the RCAF. I spent 5 years of my youth with the cadet corp (air) and have built my career in aviation since. I do not have my wings and have not completed a degree. I'm literally ready to press submit on my application and have spent weeks researching and speaking with recruiters. 

My goals: 
1. Build a long term leadership career and obtain progressive rank. 
2. Fly (hopefully fixed wing) 

Questions: 
1. Recruiters have been split regarding the best path for me. i.e. CEOTP or ROTP? I want to make sure I choose the best route to set up for my goals. 
2. Given my age, do I stand any chance of earning wings and is there enough time to reach Major or Colonel?
3. Concerned about the educational and training period for my family. Exactly what sacrifices can we expect?


----------



## DAA

crossroads78 said:
			
		

> Looking for advice from those who know or can relate.
> 
> I'm 34, have a family of 4 and have built a successful career as a business leader and executive. I'm a strong leader and feel I'd do well in the RCAF. I spent 5 years of my youth with the cadet corp (air) and have built my career in aviation since. I do not have my wings and have not completed a degree. I'm literally ready to press submit on my application and have spent weeks researching and speaking with recruiters.
> 
> My goals:
> 1. Build a long term leadership career and obtain progressive rank.
> 2. Fly (hopefully fixed wing)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. Recruiters have been split regarding the best path for me. i.e. CEOTP or ROTP? I want to make sure I choose the best route to set up for my goals.
> 2. Given my age, do I stand any chance of earning wings and is there enough time to reach Major or Colonel?
> 3. Concerned about the educational and training period for my family. Exactly what sacrifices can we expect?



I give it a kick and here goes.......

1.  If as you say, you have not completed a "degree" and if you have a family to support and your wife doesn't work, then forget about ROTP.  There's no way you could support your family.  If your wife does work and you can support your family based on her salary alone, then you could consider ROTP.  Other than that, CEOTP is probably the better way for you to go.
2.  Sure, as long as you pass BMOQ and graduate from either chosen path and pass your flight training, you will earn your wings but it's never a given.  As far as reaching the rank of Major or above, anything is possible!  It's your career.....
3.  Depending on where you currently reside, probably an extended period of separation.  It's all based on personal circumstance and other factors.


----------



## Mike5

Hi,

Here's one more note of encouragement for those who are considering the Forces later in life: just finished PRes BMOQ (weekends) and BMOQ Mod 2 at the ripe old age of 48.  No prior military experience, sporadically athletic.  Not the easiest thing I have done in 48 years on this planet... but nothing rewarding is ever easy.

Many thanks to the regular contributors on this board for their guidance and advice -- I never would have made it without milnet.  I would encourage all who read this to consider a membership to 'help keep the lights on'.

Regards,

Mike


----------



## shooked1

After reading this thread I feel like such an a** I'm about to turn 23 I had to go to the recruitment center to book my CFAT and I felt old around all these high school kids.  I have a ton of respect for anyone who want to join the CF and the fact that you guys are want to do it later in life when most people are just content to go on doing some thing they hate just cause it safe and in the box I give that much more , Best of luck and once again a ton of respect.


----------



## stayfrosty

All,

Well, I have taken the plunge. After many years of making excuses and coming up with reasons why I couldn't apply for the Reg Force this month I have decided that it's time to put the excuses behind me and (at 41) jump in both feet to live a life-long dream of serving this great country at the highest level of service one can undertake.

Obviously, this thread has been very interesting to me reading the various thoughts and opinions about embarking on a CF career mid-life. The consensus here seems to be that age is not a barrier to service and that it is very possible to serve and serve well in the 'second half' of your working life.

My 3 trade choices are ACISS, Comm Rsch, and Supply Tech. I would be very interested in hearing from those in the ACISS trade in regards to their thoughts about the demands of that trade (being a 'first in/last out' kind of trade) on someone 40+. It was my first choice, because I have many years of radio/telecommunications/hi-tech experience but I would be interested in hearing directly from those in the ACISS trade. Feel free to PM if you would like.

I passed my CFAT in 2002 when I had previously applied (yes, I was shocked to find out that a 12 year old test result is still in the CF system... I guess they hang on to paperwork for a very long time!  :nod and last week passed my personality test and have qualified for my trade choices, now my file has been sent to Ottawa for selection. Now I wait for the call back for my interview/medical. Oh well, I've waited this long for a career in the CF, I guess I can wait a little longer.

Again, thanks to all who have posted in this thread. I have appreciated your candor and opinions about what you think of us 'old guys' starting a career in the CF. If I get to BMQ, I fully expect to get razzed about my age... and I fully expect to be in the best shape of my life so I can kick some younger guy's a**  

Cheers and good luck to all!


----------



## upandatom

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> I concur totally with what the others have had to say and I couldn't say it any better.  I will add one more bit of info for you to consider.  As someone joining at 43 you will not be able to build any sort of pension because you don't have the possibility of putting in the required 25 years.  In fact, you will be able to serve less then 20 until you hit the best case scenario of working till 60.  For many, age, aches, pains, family considerations and other factors arise causing us to look at releasing (retiring with a pension if possible) well before age 60.
> 
> I'd personally recommend you consider another trade that will give you some sort of skill set you can use in the civilian sector.  In that way, when you look to release or should you have to release you will be able to transition into an effective civilian position to be able to support yourself and/or family.



Cant the CDS or the GG grant permission to serve past CRA?? 
I Was fairly certain I had read that somewhere, it didnt apply to me. Im just killing time reading these threads. You can get a penalized pension as well, I forget what the rate is though.


----------



## George Wallace

upandatom said:
			
		

> Cant the CDS or the GG grant permission to serve past CRA??
> I Was fairly certain I had read that somewhere, it didnt apply to me. Im just killing time reading these threads. You can get a penalized pension as well, I forget what the rate is though.




Sorry, upandatom.

Once you finally get through the Recruiting process and finish your training, you will have heard about and informed on "Universality of Service" and the exemptions thereof that the Canadian Armed Forces have under the Charter of Rights.  Until such time that you understand these facts, please stay "in your lanes".


----------



## MARS

upandatom said:
			
		

> Cant the CDS or the GG grant permission to serve past CRA??



That would directly contradict the literal definition of the word "compulsory".  If they, or anyone could waive it, it would simply be known as the "Retirement Age"


----------



## upandatom

Once again, emphasis on the "??"

I did not say it was a fact by any means, and it was a simple question. 

"I was fairly certain" does not indicate fact, I thought I might have read/heard about it or something along those lines. 

Thank you for the clarification.


----------



## Vell

upandatom said:
			
		

> Once again, emphasis on the "??"
> 
> I did not say it was a fact by any means, and it was a simple question.
> 
> "I was fairly certain" does not indicate fact, I thought I might have read/heard about it or something along those lines.
> 
> Thank you for the clarification.



I too am just an applicant, but I think I remember reading something about how while most NCM and Officers can only go until 60, CIC can remain until they are 65. I don't have any idea if that is true or not though or if it is, can you use it as a clever way to extend your service so that you can qualify for pension if you join post age 35 (I kind of hope that is not possible though as I would rather all CIC members are doing it for the young adults, not the pension).


----------



## x-grunt

Yep, 55. 
Officially I know someone can enroll, but realistically does anyone get accepted into reserves at around this age, and if they do are they successful? 

This isn't about me, I served a long time ago and unsuccessfully tried to reenlist some years back at the peak of our mission in Afghanistan. It's about a friend who is my age, 55, who had no idea until recently he could enlist at his age. It's been something he always regretted not doing. He's very excited about the possibility of reserve service. He is clear that combat arms is more a young person's game, but maybe Log O or MSE Op or similar he could do well. I advised him to go talk to a few people at some units and the local CFRC. He's afraid he'll get laughed out of the recruiting office but he's determined to try.

That said, I'm curious about his chances too. He is 55 in better shape them most our age.


----------



## George Wallace

x-grunt said:
			
		

> Yep, 55.
> Officially I know someone can enroll, but realistically does anyone get accepted into reserves at around this age, and if they do are they successful?
> 
> This isn't about me, I served a long time ago and unsuccessfully tried to reenlist some years back at the peak of our mission in Afghanistan. It's about a friend who is my age, 55, who had no idea until recently he could enlist at his age. It's been something he always regretted not doing. He's very excited about the possibility of reserve service. He is clear that combat arms is more a young person's game, but maybe Log O or MSE Op or similar he could do well. I advised him to go talk to a few people at some units and the local CFRC. He's afraid he'll get laughed out of the recruiting office but he's determined to try.
> 
> That said, I'm curious about his chances too. He is 55 in better shape them most our age.




We have a whole topic dedicated to just this question: "Am I too old to join?"

55 is basically the cut off for joining the Reserves.  CRA is 60 and it doesn't matter how fit or good your health is, you are done.

Criteria that affect one joining at a late age are:

1.  Are there any positions open in a Reserve unit;

2.  Can the member complete all of Basic within a one to two year timeframe; and

3.  Can the member then complete Trades trg within a year.

Joining as an officer would mean that their combined Basic and Trades trg will take a much longer time, and be dependent in some cases on whether or not crses are being run.  Joining as a NCM would meet the above criteria, and give the member approx two years service as a trained Reservist.  For the most part, Reserve units are Cbt Arms, which would also allow the member to meet the criteria.  If the member wants to get into a Specialized Trade, the trg may take longer, more than five years, and likely be cause to reject their application.  Officer positions are more rare than NCM positions.  Many Reserve units have waiting lists, due to Recruiting policies, and can not recruit over their allotted positions.


----------



## x-grunt

George Wallace said:
			
		

> We have a whole topic dedicated to just this question: "Am I too old to join?"
> 
> 55 is basically the cut off for joining the Reserves.  CRA is 60 and it doesn't matter how fit or good your health is, you are done.
> 
> Criteria that affect one joining at a late age are:
> 
> 1.  Are there any positions open in a Reserve unit;
> 
> 2.  Can the member complete all of Basic within a one to two year timeframe; and
> 
> 3.  Can the member then complete Trades trg within a year.
> 
> Joining as an officer would mean that their combined Basic and Trades trg will take a much longer time, and be dependent in some cases on whether or not crses are being run.  Joining as a NCM would meet the above criteria, and give the member approx two years service as a trained Reservist.  For the most part, Reserve units are Cbt Arms, which would also allow the member to meet the criteria.  If the member wants to get into a Specialized Trade, the trg may take longer, more than five years, and likely be cause to reject their application.  Officer positions are more rare than NCM positions.  Many Reserve units have waiting lists, due to Recruiting policies, and can not recruit over their allotted positions.



Thanks for the quick and thorough response, and for merging the thread. The good points you make are the reason I'm curious if anyone actually does get accepted or, more importantly perhaps, actually add value with his or her service at this age. I wish him well with his  attempt.


----------



## Comedian

Hi beautiful people,

I just wanted to say right off the bat that, in my silent stalking, this awesome site has indirectly answered lot of my questions. I was thinking of joining the army full time and have now set a date in the not so distant future to enroll. I want to be in good shape first as to not waste anyone's time and also to hit the ground running. 

After talking it over with wifey, and by talking I mean begging, and addressing her concerns since I am at the ripe old age of 33, I realized I also have some questions and I am hoping that you fine people could help me. Actually I guess, it's one question really...and the answer will not change my dedication towards my goal but it's always good to check if an umbrella is needed or not, right?

Are there any glass ceilings or is the sky the limit in terms of choosing this vocation? 

I know that I can continue my studies if I want and I also have a vague idea about specializations but generally is there potential for growth or will I be stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers?

I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.    

This being my first post and all, I do apologize in advance if I posted this in the wrong spot.


----------



## DAA

Comedian said:
			
		

> I just wanted to say right off the bat that, in my silent stalking, this awesome site has indirectly answered lot of my questions. I was thinking of joining the army full time and have now set a date in the not so distant future to enroll. I want to be in good shape first as to not waste anyone's time and also to hit the ground running.
> 
> After talking it over with wifey, and by talking I mean begging, and addressing her concerns since I am at the ripe old age of 33, I realized I also have some questions and I am hoping that you fine people could help me. Actually I guess, it's one question really...and the answer will not change my dedication towards my goal but it's always good to check if an umbrella is needed or not, right?
> 
> Are there any glass ceilings or is the sky the limit in terms of choosing this vocation?
> 
> I know that I can continue my studies if I want and I also have a vague idea about specializations but generally is there potential for growth or will I be stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers?
> 
> I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.
> 
> This being my first post and all, I do apologize in advance if I posted this in the wrong spot.



There are no glass ceilings and the sky is the limit.

Mature applicants, in some instances, will advance quicker because they have more life experience than the younger generation and understand what is expected of them.  They don't just go and do their assigned job and leave it at that, they go and do it really well and thus, reap the rewards.

Go ahead and apply........


----------



## runormal

I had a guy in his 40's on my basic, he didn't have a problem. 
I had a girl in her 40's on my SQ she didn't have a problem.
I had a guy in his 50's on my Dp 1 he didn't have a problem.
I had guys in their late 40's on my Driver Wheel they didn't have a problem.

Infact all of these candidates could do the PT better than people my age own age or younger.  

Defintely apply!


----------



## FJAG

Let me throw some cold water on your ambitions.

Firstly DAA is absolutely right in that there are no glass ceilings, _per se_, and that mature applicants do bring more to the table.

That said, you don't give us much information on what type of a career you are looking for or what you are bringing in the way of job experience; there's a big difference in joining the infantry or a support trade.

I see trouble on your horizon. The fact that you have to "beg" with "wifey" doesn't bode well. Do you have children? Does she have a job? Do you currently have a job and what is your present joint income? Why is she so opposed to this? Coming in at 33 is difficult enough without dragging a reluctant spouse (and perhaps children) with you. From the way you are speaking I'm left with the impression (whether right or wrong) that you are somewhat selfishly dismissing her objections in order to meet some personal goals rather than family ones.

While there is no "glass ceiling" there is the reality that you are entering the profession some fifteen years behind your peers. Think about the fact that in the CF one can qualify for a pension at twenty years. Time has no pity. You will always be older than your peers and, for much (if not all) of your career, will be led by individuals who are significantly younger than you. I ordinarily wouldn't mention that but you have indicated that you do not do well "sucking up", have never "moved up" within your current career, and do you want to be "stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers". 

In my humble opinion, you need to do a rethink about just what it is that motivates your desire to join the army over your wife's objections. On top of that, if you are still serious and want some more educated answers to your basic question then tell us a bit more about what background education and work experience you have and what particular branch or component of the army it is that you wish to join.

 :cheers:


----------



## Tibbson

When it comes to advancement...you'll rise to the level of your own competence (or some may say incompetence).  You'll get out of your career what you put into it.


----------



## Ayrsayle

To elaborate a bit on what FJAG was hitting at (and it will be slightly different depending on what trade, etc):

In *general* there are no glass ceilings - what is a limit however is a requirement for you to demonstrate skills in a particular rank/position before you progress to the next.  Someone who enrols at age 20 will have more opportunities (by virtue of having more time to demonstrate them, learn skills, etc) to move higher up the ranks then someone who enrols at 35.  However, if the 35 year old is more competent and demonstrates the required skills better then his peers he will be selected over them for promotion/higher position.

I describe it like a checklist - once you accomplish what is required at a particular level you get compared to your peers who have done the same - and the best are chosen to progress.  Having less time means exactly that - you'll have to be better, in a shorter period of time, then your peers to be in the same spot when you both retire.  If your ambition is to be the CDS or Chief of the Army, your age likely will factor into being unable to complete the required checklist in time (even if you are truly exceptional) - but you won't be pinned into a rank/position simply because you happen to be older then your peers.


----------



## FJAG

:goodpost:

 :cheers:


----------



## kratz

FJAG said:
			
		

> Let me throw some cold water on your ambitions.
> 
> Firstly DAA is absolutely right in that there are no glass ceilings, _per se_, and that mature applicants do bring more to the table.
> 
> That said, you don't give us much information on what type of a career you are looking for or what you are bringing in the way of job experience; there's a big difference in joining the infantry or a support trade.
> 
> I see trouble on your horizon. The fact that you have to "beg" with "wifey" doesn't bode well. Do you have children? Does she have a job? Do you currently have a job and what is your present joint income? Why is she so opposed to this? Coming in at 33 is difficult enough without dragging a reluctant spouse (and perhaps children) with you. From the way you are speaking I'm left with the impression (whether right or wrong) that you are somewhat selfishly dismissing her objections in order to meet some personal goals rather than family ones.
> 
> While there is no "glass ceiling" there is the reality that you are entering the profession some fifteen years behind your peers. Think about the fact that in the CF one can qualify for a pension at twenty-five
> years (or CRA, effective 2007). Time has no pity. You will always be older than your peers and, for much (if not all) of your career, will be led by individuals who are significantly younger than you. I ordinarily wouldn't mention that but you have indicated that you do not do well "sucking up", have never "moved up" within your current career, and do you want to be "stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers".
> 
> In my humble opinion, you need to do a rethink about just what it is that motivates your desire to join the army over your wife's objections. On top of that, if you are still serious and want some more educated answers to your basic question then tell us a bit more about what background education and work experience you have and what particular branch or component of the army it is that you wish to join.
> 
> :cheers:



Great post, FTFY on one point.


----------



## Comedian

Wow, thank you all for the input and a special props to FJAG for the cold water.

Ha ha, I will be the first to admit that my spouse can be a handful but she is definitely an alpha in terms of managing the house. She works as a nurse and is the fearless bossy independent type. Now I am not saying I am a push over but there is no wrong in acknowledging a powerful woman, it's rather good on my health actually.

She is mainly reluctant because she thinks I should dedicate my life to being a lawyer, politician, writer, or some other white collar job. We have 3 children, a 16 year old boy and 2 little girls but honestly sometimes I feel like I have 3 daughters .

As a 1st generation Canadian, I have always felt the need to show my love and dedication for my country but life always seemed to get in the way. I want to represent my country. 

I must admit that this is a personal goal I have had for years and though I have been able to repress it for a while, that all changed last year when my son, now 16, decided that he wants to enlist after high school. Wifey was not thrilled but I had nothing to do with the boy's ambition. So in somewhat of an ironic twist, I guess my personal goal has family interest splinters.

My "expertises", I would say is mainly the ability to communicate, learn fast, and teach others. 

Obviously all of this is work related experiences from various call centers dealing with hostile clients, language barriers, turning no into yes, and of course selling. 

I was also in the high school swim team and I love it to this day.

And in closing...I am also a Sagittarius. :snowman:

In all seriousness though, thank you all for your valuable input.


----------



## DAA

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> To elaborate a bit on what FJAG was hitting at (and it will be slightly different depending on what trade, etc):
> 
> In *general* there are no glass ceilings - what is a limit however is a requirement for you to demonstrate skills in a particular rank/position before you progress to the next.  Someone who enrols at age 20 will have more opportunities (by virtue of having more time to demonstrate them, learn skills, etc) to move higher up the ranks then someone who enrols at 35.  However, if the 35 year old is more competent and demonstrates the required skills better then his peers he will be selected over them for promotion/higher position.
> 
> I describe it like a checklist - once you accomplish what is required at a particular level you get compared to your peers who have done the same - and the best are chosen to progress.  Having less time means exactly that - you'll have to be better, in a shorter period of time, then your peers to be in the same spot when you both retire.  If your ambition is to be the CDS or Chief of the Army, your age likely will factor into being unable to complete the required checklist in time (even if you are truly exceptional) - but you won't be pinned into a rank/position simply because you happen to be older then your peers.



Hope I don't offend, but I'm having flash backs here.  This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.


----------



## cryco

I don't want to go too far off topic, but seriously? they wanted to dissuade over 25 from joining? Were there too many applicants at the time?


----------



## RedcapCrusader

cryco said:
			
		

> I don't want to go too far off topic, but seriously? they wanted to dissuade over 25 from joining? Were there too many applicants at the time?



I think it was more the case of, all their applicants were older and therefore were more familiar with armed conflicts and wars that Canada participated in and wanted to do their part but also a time where youth had little to no desire to join as it was seen as a "disgraceful, last resort" career for the convicts and the dropouts.

Just a wild guess.


----------



## FJAG

kratz said:
			
		

> Great post, FTFY on one point.



Thanks Kratz - guess I'm showing my own old age  ;D

Just as an aside. I'm not adverse to changing careers late in life. I joined the regular army OCTP right out of high school and at age 32 decided to pack it in to go to law school and a civilian/reserve career. Even when everyone's on board there's a great shock for the whole family when you do that from leaving friends and family behind, finance and housing issues, a new career to learn and establish. I could go on but you get the idea.

Anyway. Best of luck in whatever decision you make.

:cheers:


----------



## mariomike

DAA said:
			
		

> This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.



That seems to have been the case when I joined the militia. It was also customary in at least some of the Emergency Services:

"Prior to the early 1980s, the RCMP recruited new members aged from 19 to about 25. The practice was relatively customary of those days, and based on three precise beliefs from the RCMP. First, policing could not be the second career of an individual. Second, young men were more moldable than older individuals to the police subculture. Third, criminal activity was linked to adulthood; by hiring young adults, the RCMP secured a greater chance that those individuals would have a crime-free background."
http://www.shaba.co/wa?s=RCMP_recruitment#Age

( I don't vouch for the source. Take it for what it is worth.  :2c: )

I believe Human Rights legislation put an end to Age Discrimination around that time.


----------



## Ayrsayle

DAA said:
			
		

> Hope I don't offend, but I'm having flash backs here.  This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.



Long before my time - but this was the explanation given to most my peers and I when we were introduced to the Regimental succession planning process.  Seeing as how I enrolled over the age of 25, I appreciated the honest assessment/commentary - along with the emphatic "Be so damn good they can't help but promote you" mentality that creates success as opposed to thinking a career was over before it started.

I'll let you know in 20 years how well it worked out (laughs).


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## DAA

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> Long before my time - but this was the explanation given to most my peers and I when we were introduced to the Regimental succession planning process.  Seeing as how I enrolled over the age of 25, I appreciated the honest assessment/commentary - along with the emphatic "Be so damn good they can't help but promote you" mentality that creates success as opposed to thinking a career was over before it started.
> 
> I'll let you know in 20 years how well it worked out (laughs).



At one time, age at the time of enrolment was considered as a barrier to not just advancement but most of the future employment scenarios which you mentioned (ie; older than your peers, working for someone younger, etc, etc).  Then when that didn't work and the intake age increased, came the "enforce the limited pension aspect" thing (ie; your 36 and can't do 20 years for an immediate pension, etc) and when that didn't work came the "your career will be limited" thing (ie; never get past Cpl or Capt).

All of the above have credence to some extent.  The landscape has definitely changed and continues to do so.

Hell, in the early 80's I remember one day asking my Capt "Sir, why aren't you a Major yet?"  His response, "I'm 31, my career is done and I'll be lucky if I see Maj."

My how things have changed.........


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## Pusser

Comedian said:
			
		

> I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.



What do you mean by sucking up?  The CF is an heirarchical organization that specializes in the management of violence; therefore, in short order within the outfit, you *will* receive orders that:

1)  you don't like;
2)  you think are foolish;
3)  don't make sense;
4)  may place your life in danger;
5)  will cause you personal anguish;
6)  will be personally inconvenient;
7)  will come from people who are younger than you; and/or
8 )  will come from people who are not as smart as you.

*BUT* you will still have to follow them, with the added benefit of being in an organization that has the legal authority to imprison you, should you not follow those orders.  If you last long enough, however, you may reach a point where YOU are giving orders that:

1)  you don't like;
2)  you think are foolish;
3)  don't make sense;
4)  may place your or your subordinates' lives in danger;
5)  will cause you personal anguish;
6)  will be personally inconvenient;
7)  are a result of those that come from people who are younger than you; and/or
8 )  are a result of those that come from people who are not as smart as you.

The saving grace is the hope that everyone has received sufficient training to make the right decisions at the right time and that only those with good judgement are placed in positions of responsibility.  For the most part, this is largely true, but there are exceptions...

Your ability to question decisions is dictated by the circumstances and the level of trust you have earned from your superiors.  The bottom line though is that warfare is chaotic and our heirarchy attempts to maintain some semblance of order, so there is often no time to question a leader's decision, even if you think it is wrong.


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## Comedian

Thanks for the insight Pusser.

What you highlighted reminds me of my marriage. 

Jokes aside, I appreciate the insight and do not see myself having an issue with anything you mentioned.

What I meant by sucking up is for instance complimenting the boss' shoes everyday and stuff like that just to move up the corporate ladder.

Hard work, I am not afraid of. ;D


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## DAA

Comedian said:
			
		

> What I meant by sucking up is for instance complimenting the boss' shoes everyday and stuff like that just to move up the corporate ladder.
> 
> Hard work, I am not afraid of. ;D



Oh, you definitely won't have to compliment the boss' shoes, as it shall be the boss, commenting on yours.........lol


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## methionine

I have read through the various "am i too old threads" but didn't see a discussion directly related to the idea of ageism in regards to career advancement.

I'm not sure what the average age of recruitment is, I've tried looking it up but some of the stats are contradictory but a general trend I have read commented on is a trend for applicants to be older than they were 15 or 20 years ago.

I imagine some trades are more accessible to all age groups than others. For example, would a 25 year old soldier find it more difficult to promote himself to the upper levels of soldiering (say, path finder, Para, Mountain Ops, etc.) than say a 25 year old entering the CAF as a construction technician. It would seem that those trades which rely more on physical ability rather than experience built up over time would prefer younger recruits than older ones.

As well, if a member was to do an occupational transfer at say, the age of 32, after a number of years of service in a different trade, would he/she be likely to face some discrimination based on their age relative to a 20 year old applicant?


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## Jed

Nothing new in this thread start up. My  :2c:; If you are say 25 and under there should be no issues wrt age. If you are starting out around 30 you will be handicapped due to ability and time to learn the military way. If you are around 40, unless you are a super jock, the physical aspect starts to come into play.

Of course it has to be this way due to the universality of service requirement. If you are an officer it is even more critical because you need to lead from the front, physically and mentally.


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## Humphrey Bogart

Jed said:
			
		

> Nothing new in this thread start up. My  :2c:; If you are say 25 and under there should be no issues wrt age. If you are starting out around 30 you will be handicapped due to ability and time to learn the military way. If you are around 40, unless you are a super jock, the physical aspect starts to come into play.
> 
> Of course it has to be this way due to the universality of service requirement. If you are an officer it is even more critical because you need to lead from the front, physically and mentally.



Ditto!

The military is structured so that you acquire knowledge through experience.  In other words, don't expect to become a Senior Officer or NCO if you are 40 years old and all of a sudden got this itch to join the military, it ain't happening.


----------



## methionine

Any ideas as the the average age of a new recruit?


----------



## mariomike

methionine said:
			
		

> Any ideas as the the average age of a new recruit?



Average age of enrollment.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/102500.0


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## FortYorkRifleman

Currently in the application process as NCM Infantry Regular Force at the age of 27. Most applicants that I've met going for the same trade are 18 - 21 so will being an older applicant hurt my chances?


----------



## GreenWood

I have seen much older member going through BMQ and their trade course, you'll be fine!

Best of luck!


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## BKM1812

Good Evening,

I am a 36 year old Paid on Call Firefighter with my NFPA Level 2 Certification, I am also employed as a Project Manager and Contractor; former university football coach. I have two children 9 and 6. Over the past 10 months I have made the educated decision that i wish to join as Infantry, my family is in agreement with this decision. I have gone to the Canadian Forces office and asked a recruiter several questions, which led to my decision of Infantry with the goal of progressing into a more specialized unit.

My question pertains to schedule; I realize that after Basic and Land Training I am then sent to train more specifically under my trade (Infantry). Are you able to give me the training schedule of an Infantry soldier based out of Wainwright, for example, for the 17 weeks. 

Thanks very much for your time.


----------



## Gunshark

Well I'm working to join the Reserve NCM Combat Engineers at age of 28. Any thoughts on that? Don't mind the younger guys and assuming extra responsibility if necessary, but just hoping there will be a few people my age to relate more closely to.


----------



## canafrican

After basic training you are sent to wainwright or meaford Ontario for an additional 13 weeks of training for your dp1 infantry trades training. You are not garunteed wainwright, they will send you where they need you. 

I would say to really think hard about joining, especially with having 2 small children as you're going to be away from them for at least 6+ months during bmq and dp1. This doesn't include waiting on pat platoon either. Once you've graduated dp1, they can send you to any regiment in Canada. Whether it's on the east or west coast. 

At 36, you want to make sure you're in the best possible shape of your life for infantry dp1, because you're going to get beasted everyday for the first little while


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## Jarnhamar

I would do some reading on these forums before going through with your decision.

At 36 you'll be treated somewhat better than an 18 year old but once you get to a battalion you'll be hit with some pretty monotonous and shitty jobs that may be a big step down from what you're used to.   Filling up jerry cans of water, lighting lanterns, sweeping and mopping concrete floors, lots of menial stuff.

I can't say for certain but I'm thinking you may get passed up for some of the cool courses (sniper, pathfinder, recce) because your unit may not feel they will get a big return on a 38 or 40 year old basic sniper. (could be wrong).

Usually when older guys come to the infantry they leave jobs like mcdonalds employee or grocery store clerk, less so a professional one like firefighter.

I'm not trying to dissuade you (that much) just check the forums out and see what the life of an infantry private and corporal is like.


----------



## mariomike

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Usually when older guys come to the infantry they leave jobs like mcdonalds employee or grocery store clerk, less so a professional one like firefighter.



It sounds like he is a volunteer. Volunteer firefighters are sometimes referred to as paid-on-call firefighters due to some compensation they receive.

At any rate, he only made the one post and was "Last Active: September 26, 2015".


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## Fishbone Jones

In the combat arms where 35 is too old to be considered for CO or RSM, you will be extremely limited for promotion also.


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## dangerboy

recceguy said:
			
		

> In the combat arms where 35 is too old to be considered for CO or RSM, you will be extremely limited for promotion also.



Why do you say 35 years old is too old to be RSM or CO?  Every RSM I know right now is older than 35.


----------



## MJP

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Why do you say 35 years old is too old to be RSM or CO?  Every RSM I know right now is older than 35.



He is saying to make it up to that rank before one "ages" out.


----------



## Haggis

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Why do you say 35 years old is too old to be RSM or CO?  Every RSM I know right now is older than 35.



And the ones who are destined for senior appointments are probably in their early to mid 40's right now.

Succession planning for CWO (RSM) is based on CRA 55.  DSA looks at you and counts backwards from 55 to 36 to calculate if you have the "legs" for a command, key or senior appointment.  The OP clearly doesn't have enough birthdays left to be promoted to CWO by 52.  He'll never be in the succession plan and, ergo, will be passed over for promotions, cool courses, career courses and "tick in the box" jobs more often than not.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Why do you say 35 years old is too old to be RSM or CO?  Every RSM I know right now is older than 35.



It's what we were told by the Corps RSM when we were the senior course at the school. They want you to give them more after you've done your Unit command time. If you're going to age out after that command, they won't consider you any more. Like MJP said.


----------



## mariomike

Saw this in Ask a CAF Recruiter.

Adding it here for future reference,

Max enrolment age. 
"I am 57 years old, served 5 years in the infantry '74-79. Attained rank of Cpl., completed overseas tour and so on. Question is, "Am I able to re enlist at his age. I am set on returning to the infantry if at all possible?" Be honest, lets not waste anyone's time. I can pass the physical (running would be tight)."
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/116713.0.html


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## BCPatroit83

Bro; 

Your never too old to join period. It even States it on the forces site. Besides 30 is the new 20. I'm 32 and looking to join the reserves, as infantry. I say go for it. 

Best of luck.


----------



## Loachman

BCPatroit83 said:
			
		

> Your never too old to join period.



Wrong.


----------



## sarahsmom

BCPatroit83 said:
			
		

> Bro;
> 
> Your never too old to join period. It even States it on the forces site. Besides 30 is the new 20. I'm 32 and looking to join the reserves, as infantry. I say go for it.
> 
> Best of luck.



You need to able to finish your initial contract before mandatory retirement. Depending on your trade choice, the initial contract varies. Recruiting is your best bet for an answer as to whether a particular individual is too old.


----------



## Dockrill923

I am 39 and just finished BMQ there is also a guy that is 42 in my class. there are challenges of course at a later age but we also have a few more tools in the toolbox to draw on as well. don't let your age be the reason you don't do it.


----------



## gnm62

I will be 54 in feb 2017 , i have always respected our military history and the people who now serve. I did once apply in my 20s but was refused because of some legal issues that have long been taken care of, this has alway been in the back of my mind and i am now seriously considering joining the reserves. I am self employed in a trade that keeps me moving all day, not sitting at a desk so I am relatively in shape, I do get the achy muscules that age brings but I would have no problem with the physical requirements. Does anyone here have any insights to older people in a seemingly younger persons domain, i would join a Montreal reserve unit and amoured soldier is of interest. Am I kidding myself by thinking I could get into that trade? If not what would training be like and how often would I be away from home? I would consider other trades but something about driving heavy duty vehicules with fire power appeals to me. Obviously im not looking for a long term career even if I wanted it and not looking for lots of money, i just want to serve my country in a way I have always admired and have some adventures also. Any info, insights , or personal stories would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## mariomike

gnm62 said:
			
		

> Does anyone here have any insights to older people in a seemingly younger persons domain,



For reference, perhaps,

Almost 54 yrs old

will be merged with,

Am I too old to join/do well/fit in? (Merged thread) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/207.0
11 pages.



			
				gnm62 said:
			
		

> how often would I be away from home?



Away from home - Reserves
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22away+from+home%22+reserves&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=TbMjWPWUG8WC8QeLh4fYBg&gws_rd=ssl



			
				gnm62 said:
			
		

> what would training be like



Reserve training
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+reserve+traing&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=5bMjWPvILsWC8QeLh4fYBg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+reserve+training



			
				gnm62 said:
			
		

> driving heavy duty vehicules with fire power appeals to me.



Not sure how much of that you will be doing in the Reserve, but you can read about it here,

Armour Reserve
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+reserve+traing&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=5bMjWPvILsWC8QeLh4fYBg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+reserve+armour


----------



## tracie_anderson

Well, if I can do it at age 43, I think u can too lol. U a youngster yet! 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jarnhamar

tracie_anderson said:
			
		

> Well, if I can do it at age 43, I think u can too lol. U a youngster yet!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk



How do you find being a 43 year old private in the reserves?  What have you found to be some of the negative aspects of it?


----------



## LightFighter

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> How do you find being a 43 year old private in the reserves?  What have you found to be some of the negative aspects of it?



She's not in, according to her past posts she's only recently applied.  Her profile claiming to be a Private in the Reserves is BS.


----------



## mariomike

LightFighter said:
			
		

> Her profile claiming to be a Private in the Reserves is BS.



Or, maybe it was a simple error from an applicant?


----------



## Jarnhamar

mariomike said:
			
		

> Or, maybe it was a simple error from an applicant?



Suggesting someone "can do it because they have"  suggests to me that they went through the training system.


----------



## mariomike

"Well,  if I can do it at age 43, I think u can too lol."

Suggests to me that she thinks she can join/do well/fit in.

Wouldn't be the first time I have read Applicants confusing themselves with Recruits. 

eg: There is Recruits Only forum. But, I suspect many of the posters are Applicants.


----------

