# This just in: Hell about to freeze over



## daftandbarmy (12 Jul 2012)

They must be joking.... please :crybaby:

Air Canada Named 'Best International Airline in North America' in Global Industry Survey of More than 18 Million Travelers
Third consecutive year Air Canada named a winner at Skytrax World Airline Awards 

MONTREAL, July 12, 2012 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada has been named the 'Best International Airline in North America' in a worldwide survey of air travelers for the Skytrax World Airline Awards. In what Skytrax termed "a remarkable repeat success", it is the third consecutive year Air Canada has ranked among the top global carriers in the awards, which surveyed more than 18 million passengers worldwide. The annual survey, whose findings were announced today at the Farnborough International Airshow, is regarded in the air transport industry as a key benchmarking tool for airline passenger satisfaction levels. 

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1006877/air-canada-named-best-international-airline-in-north-america-in-global-industry-survey-of-more-than-18-million-travelers


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## George Wallace (12 Jul 2012)

I wonder if any of those who cast votes actually flew Air Canada.  Then again, it states that they were the best in North America, not the best in the world.  There are far better International Carriers, and I am sure, Air Canada doesn't rank high among them.  



> Air Canada was preferred by 73 per cent of Canadian business travellers surveyed for 2011, the third consecutive year of improvement in Air Canada's ratings in the national survey.



Not hard to do when you hold a virtual monopoly on air travel in Canada.


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## Cthulhu (12 Jul 2012)

"There are far better International Carriers, and I am sure, Air Canada doesn't rank high among them.  "

A true fact ... we all know that everything about Canada is substandard. 

Trying to take away one of our National Icons? Dislike of Air Canada? Sacre Blue


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## GAP (12 Jul 2012)

Don't companies buy these awards......



"Best Mattress supplier for the year" "Gold Award for XXX...xx"...etc....


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## medicineman (12 Jul 2012)

Maybe it was all of Air Canada's employees that voted them in...I know I refuse to fly them anymore except under duress.

MM


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Jul 2012)

Cthulhu said:
			
		

> "There are far better International Carriers, and I am sure, Air Canada doesn't rank high among them.  "
> 
> A true fact ... we all know that everything about Canada is substandard.
> 
> Trying to take away one of our National Icons? Dislike of Air Canada? Sacre Blue



Nice try Kalatzi.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Pat in Halifax (12 Jul 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> They must be joking.... please :crybaby:
> 
> Air Canada Named 'Best International Airline in North America' in Global Industry Survey of More than 18 Million Travelers
> Third consecutive year Air Canada named a winner at Skytrax World Airline Awards
> ...


ALL the other North American airlines are obviously absolutely horrible methinx!


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## SupersonicMax (12 Jul 2012)

Having flown a great deal of airlines, around the world and in North America, sadly, Air Canada is indeed the best...  Try flying Delta within North America, you will understand...


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## aesop081 (12 Jul 2012)

I'm with Max on this one.

Air Canada does a very good job on it's international routes. The service is vastly different, IMHO, compared to it's in-Canada routes.


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## Sub_Guy (12 Jul 2012)

I may be in the minority, but I prefer Air Canada, and I dislike flying with WestJet.

I find the Westjet seats uncomfortable, and their entertainment system is a complete waste.  (wait until they rip out all the TV's and offer to rent Tablets, a step backwards)

The little circus the WestJet flight attendants put on, is beyond annoying.  At least with Air Canada, I can watch newer movies and my ass doesn't fall asleep.


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## Danjanou (12 Jul 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm with Max on this one.
> 
> Air Canada does a very good job on it's international routes. The service is vastly different, IMHO, compared to it's in-Canada routes.



Probably because there they have to compete with the real airlines like KLM, Cathay etc. Domestically there really isn't much choice, although regionally in Southern Ontario Porter is making them sweat. 8)


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## cupper (12 Jul 2012)

Hell can't freeze over, because hell is exothermic. ;D



> "First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.
> 
> Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.
> 
> ...


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## SupersonicMax (12 Jul 2012)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Probably because there they have to compete with the real airlines like KLM, Cathay etc. Domestically there really isn't much choice, although regionally in Southern Ontario Porter is making them sweat. 8)



KLM really?  Worst service I had flying overseas was with KLM, by FAR!

Singapore Airlines was good, Thai airways was sketchy at best, Emirates was good.  Lufthansa was okay, nowhere near Air Canada....  Air France was actually very nice, as well as British Airways...


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## AmmoTech90 (12 Jul 2012)

Within North American carriers I have to say Air Canada does have very good service.  I flew a lot in the last two years and I dread United, American, US, or Delta.  British Airways going from London to Cyprus was a nightmare.  AC does not have excellent service, but they have consistently acceptable service (and the chairback video screens are nice).  Once I start paying for my own flights I may become more critical.


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## Scott (13 Jul 2012)

Air Canada International and Domestic are WORLDS apart.

If I'm flying within Canada then I really do not give a damn who I fly with. I haven't been able to try Porter as of yet, but wish to based on reviews I've heard from some frequent fliers here. If given the choice in Canada I'll fly WestJet for any short haul flight but would stick with AC for longer hauls because of the Aeroplan miles (hey, they do add up).

In my job I get to speak with loads of international travelers and many have told me that they believe AC International does a pretty damned good job. They are far from perfect but way past acceptable. 

Honestly, the vast majority of my negative experiences when it comes to air travel, and I am through Heathrow every three weeks or so, can be put down to idiot passengers. When the airlines fuck up they at least do something to make it right - there's no compensation for missing a connection because some fucking dolt didn't read a newspaper over the last 11 years and decided to try and get his thousand dollar bottle of scotch through the screening point.

Since I started traveling out of Canada for the majority of my work I have had maybe four bad experiences with AC, two of which involved lost/delayed bags, the other two being personnel issues/attitudes. Each and every time I sent a reasoned and polite email to them and each and every time I got a ''gift'' in return. Three of the times I actually told them that travel vouchers are no good to me, please give me lounge passes to share with friends/family, and they did.


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## Danjanou (13 Jul 2012)

Max my experiences with KLM were many moons ago and limited, so I'll take your word for it now. Agree re Singapore, most Asian carriers really push the customer service which is why I still  love Cathay, even though they no longer offer their All Asia Pass. I can't imagine 12-13 hours over the Pacific in anything else. 8)

Domestically I'd prefer Porter or West Jet, over Air Canada but would take it over some of the charters still running like Air-Transat. Sunwing is hit or miss. I do miss some of the old charter lines like Royal though. 

Internationally I guess there are worse airlines out there, Air Philipines, Cubana ( especially in the pre Airbus days)


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## Scott (13 Jul 2012)

I flew Transat to Cuba in April and had NO issues with their service. I was wary when the wife booked the trip but they dispelled any fears of service I might have had. The seats ain't the roomiest but you expect that heading to sun destinations or on charters.


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## bridges (13 Jul 2012)

I'm guessing that the business travellers surveyed didn't know there WERE any other international carriers in Canada.  There are at least three Canadian airlines that I can think of, that fly regularly scheduled service internationally - WJ, Porter and First Air which now flies to Nuuk, Greenland from Iqaluit.  Then there are the charters, and probably several smaller carriers as well.

AC has stated outright that the domestic market is not a priority for them.  On that principle and on my past experiences, which tend toward the negative, I'll fly AC only if there's no other choice to that particular location.  Aeroplan points are no longer a factor as I can never get a seat in the time period I'm looking for, even booking months ahead of time.  

WestJet and Porter get my vote.   :2c: 


Edit:  woops, went too fast over the original article - it's the "best" international carrier in North America, not just Canada.  Anyway if AC's international service is so much better than its domestic, then we're comparing apples & oranges.  I've flown AC both domestically and internationally in the last two months, and didn't notice any appreciable difference between the two.


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## Scott (13 Jul 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> I'm guessing that the business travellers surveyed didn't know there WERE any other international carriers in Canada.  There are at least three Canadian airlines that I can think of, that fly regularly scheduled service internationally - WJ, Porter and First Air which now flies to Nuuk, Greenland from Iqaluit.  Then there are the charters, and probably several smaller carriers as well.



Because there are shitloads of people flying to Nuuk, right?  ;D

I've been there, took the long route.



> AC has stated outright that the domestic market is not a priority for them.  On that principle and on my past experiences, which tend toward the negative, I'll fly AC only if there's no other choice to that particular location.  Aeroplan points are no longer a factor as I can never get a seat in the time period I'm looking for, even booking months ahead of time.
> 
> WestJet and Porter get my vote.   :2c:



The best advice I got about Aeroplan miles (gained here) was to use them for merchandaise, which I gladly do. Thus far my wife has gotten an iPad and I treated myself to a pair of sunglasses. Next up might be one of those bubble hockey tables.


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## bridges (13 Jul 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Because there are shitloads of people flying to Nuuk, right?  ;D



Just saying.      I'm on First Air's e-mail list, & saw Nuuk recently added to their schedule.



> The best advice I got about Aeroplan miles (gained here) was to use them for merchandaise, which I gladly do. Thus far my wife has gotten an iPad and I treated myself to a pair of sunglasses. Next up might be one of those bubble hockey tables.



That is an excellent idea.  Because clearly, booking flights does not work for everybody - which I suspect is part of the master AC plan.    :Tin-Foil-Hat:


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## gcclarke (13 Jul 2012)

cupper said:
			
		

> Hell can't freeze over, because hell is exothermic. ;D



I would like to point out that freezing is an exothermic process...


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## Scott (13 Jul 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> Just saying.      I'm on First Air's e-mail list, & saw Nuuk recently added to their schedule.



I've seen a culvert with wings decked out in AC logos the last time I was there.



> That is an excellent idea.  Because clearly, booking flights does not work for everybody - which I suspect is part of the master AC plan.    :Tin-Foil-Hat:



If you go through the booking process you'll find that you have to pay out on top of those miles. While there are certain folks (some who might even be here) who do long haul business class trips on miles I am not one of those. In fact, flying as often as I do the thought of using miles to fly even more is revolting.

I also used to have a miles/dollar comparison spreadhsheet that explained the better bang for buck rewards out there - but I'll be damned if I can find it right now. That's if you want to get really geeky with it or find yourself with an enormous amount of time on your hands like I sometimes do.


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## bridges (13 Jul 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> I've seen a culvert with wings decked out in AC logos the last time I was there.
> 
> 
> > uh-oh... that's not good.
> ...


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## a_majoor (13 Jul 2012)

On a more general note, the prices for flying in Canada are pretty close to extortion, and (since I am 2 hr away) if I really need to fly anywhere on my own dime, it is far more cost effective to go on the Internet; book a ticket on a US airine and fly ut of Detroit Metro. Since Toronto is 2 hr the other way, I can do a very valid time and cost comparison.

Most US domestic carriers are pretty decent, if no frills operations, and I can most certainly say that I am not getting several hundred dollars in extra services using a Canadian airline or flying out of a Canadian airport.


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## bridges (13 Jul 2012)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> On a more general note, the prices for flying in Canada are pretty close to extortion, and (since I am 2 hr away) if I really need to fly anywhere on my own dime, it is far more cost effective to go on the Internet; book a ticket on a US airine and fly ut of Detroit Metro. Since Toronto is 2 hr the other way, I can do a very valid time and cost comparison.
> 
> Most US domestic carriers are pretty decent, if no frills operations, and I can most certainly say that I am not getting several hundred dollars in extra services using a Canadian airline or flying out of a Canadian airport.



For my next domestic US flight I'll be looking at flying out of Ogdensburg NY, instead of Ottawa - and they offer free parking!  For now, at least.


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## 2010newbie (14 Jul 2012)

Previous to joining the military I flew internationally, throughout North America, and sometimes within Canada. Whenever I could I would use Air Canada. I've flown, Delta, US Airways, Mexicana, Aeromexico, Lufthansa, British Airways, United, Southwest, American Airlines, Air New Zealand, Qantas, Virgin Blue (now Virgin Australia), and a few more that I can't recall. Air Canada has always provided the most consistent service and reliability. Now that I am with the CF, I have had to fly WestJet a few times and I find their service within Canada to be sub-par to anything Air Canada ever provided. As others have mentioned, I find their in-flight banter to be annoying instead of humourous and their level of in-flight service is lower than Air Canada provides.


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## Scott (14 Jul 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> I've often wondered about that, and about which travel reward cards give the best deals & don't throw out your points after a certain # of years.   Either way, it must be profitable for them or they wouldn't do it - but maybe there's at least one that's a good deal for the consumer too.



I think 7 years is the drop dead date for AC points. It's pretty simple to gauge the dollar value for the points on simple items. Just find two or three that interest you, copy the details and find out the retail number for them - that's if you're budget minded.

I don't care about the price built in for miles because I don't pay for my flights and find the miles to be a little bonus for airport and traveler hell I put up with at times  My firm could book me with the option that awards no miles but then changes to the flights would cost a stupid amount and I have to change some detail much more often than not.

I say again: my prime source of aggravation during travel is other passengers, not the airlines.


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## Greymatters (16 Jul 2012)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> Air Canada has always provided the most consistent service and reliability.



It's all perception and experience; Ive found several airlines to be better than Air Canada during my travels, but it's no surprise if others had good experiences...


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## bridges (16 Jul 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> I think 7 years is the drop dead date for AC points. It's pretty simple to gauge the dollar value for the points on simple items. Just find two or three that interest you, copy the details and find out the retail number for them - that's if you're budget minded.
> 
> I don't care about the price built in for miles because I don't pay for my flights and find the miles to be a little bonus for airport and traveler hell I put up with at times  My firm could book me with the option that awards no miles but then changes to the flights would cost a stupid amount and I have to change some detail much more often than not.
> 
> I say again: my prime source of aggravation during travel is other passengers, not the airlines.



You're correct on 7 years for Aeroplan.  And as for budget-minded, yes.  A bit time-crunched, perhaps, but I could probably shave off some of the time I spend on here.      Or devising ever-more detailed formulae on the spreadsheet I keep for my car mileage.

My most recent prime source of aggravation is the machines where you have to print your own boarding pass (not too bad), and your own luggage tag - then peel off the sticky backing at the right spot and attach it to the suitcase yourself.  I constantly see people fumbling with the tags, or standing in the way while they try to decipher the instructions on the back.  It's particularly difficult for people who travel infrequently, and aren't used to it - as compared to a check-in clerk who puts hundreds of those on every day, and can do it with their eyes closed.  Lots of efficiency gained for the airline staff, not so much for the traveller.  And overall, it just strikes me as another means for the airlines to shift responsibility for more things onto the traveller, so they can employ fewer staff in the future.

Oh, and the requirement for putting your own bags on the belt, like in Winnipeg.  Once you've checked yourself in, printed your own boarding pass and tagged your own luggage, literally the only thing the check-in clerk does is glance at your boarding pass and wave you through to the baggage belt.

All right, where's the "rant over" button...


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## daftandbarmy (16 Jul 2012)

I'm heading to the airport now and taking Air Canada because there is no....other....option. Pray for me.... (in both official languages)


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## GAP (16 Jul 2012)

au revoir.........


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## Scott (16 Jul 2012)

Funny, I see those self service machines and walk right by them and on to the counter. No probs.


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## aesop081 (16 Jul 2012)

Just walked up to the first airline agent you see and say "i've never used these self-serve machines before" and they do it for you.........

Works. I do it every flight.


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## jollyjacktar (16 Jul 2012)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> Air Canada has always provided the most consistent service and reliability.


In my experience within Canada, consistently disappointing.  I liked Canadian Pacific Airlines.


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## cupper (16 Jul 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Just walked up to the first airline agent you see and say "i've never used these self-serve machines before" and they do it for you.........
> 
> Works. I do it every flight.



I was going to post something about them taking pity on the old and feeble. Good thing I checked you're profile first.

They were probably taking pity on someone who was feeble. >


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## my72jeep (19 Jul 2012)

Here in Northern Ont. you have Bearskin air, AirCanada Jazz, West jet, Porter. Now WestJet only fly's out of Thunder bay. I fly out of Sault Ste. Marie to Toronto Bearskin $1100, Air Canada $500-700, Porter $99-350. All booked 3 weeks in advance all round trip, Air Canada free coffee & nuts. Porter up to 2 free Beer, nuts/cookies, sandwich with pasta salad. Bearskin don't know too scared to fly with them.


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## bridges (19 Jul 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Here in Northern Ont. you have Bearskin air, AirCanada Jazz, West jet, Porter. Now WestJet only fly's out of Thunder bay. I fly out of Sault Ste. Marie to Toronto Bearskin $1100, Air Canada $500-700, Porter $99-350. All booked 3 weeks in advance all round trip, Air Canada free coffee & nuts. Porter up to 2 free Beer, nuts/cookies, sandwich with pasta salad. Bearskin don't know too scared to fly with them.



Bearskin doesn't fly to Toronto, exactly.  Closest is Hamilton, or Kitchener/Waterloo.  They're great though - I've flown with them from Ottawa to the Soo several times.  They had good prices, convenient schedules for business travellers and the best part, you don't have to go through Toronto.  Typically they only stop in Sudbury.  Plus it's a very relaxed vibe.  In SSM they write out the boarding passes by hand, which, while inconsequential, I find a refreshing change.  

The pilots are also your flight attendants.  The plane (Fairchild Metroliner) has 19 seats, one row on each side - so you get a window seat AND an aisle seat.  No seat assignment - you just sit wherever a seat is free.  

IMO these are the downsides to Bearskin:

-no washroom on board.  All flight legs are short, but this could still be a problem for those with certain medical conditions, or who had a few beers at the airport.   
-restricted luggage weight for checked bags, which I think is 40 lb - the same as charters to the south.  Max carry-on is 1 piece, small. 
-no food/beverage service obviously - which IMO is a good thing.  The only good food I've ever had on an airplane was on First Air & Canadian North, between Ottawa & Iqaluit.  Everything else has been basic sustenance at best, cardboard or downright nauseating at worst.  

Never any problems with Bearskin - the same can't be said for Air Canada.  For short hops to/from Toronto, though, Porter can't be beat for the service and airport location.  

On a related topic, I heard that WestJet was soliciting feedback from the public on potential new cities for their routes - not sure if this is still going on, but apparently there were 40 cities and Brandon MB was one of them, which would be great for the WestMan region.  WJ had Brandon on their schedule briefly, many years ago.  Around the time they also flew to the Sault and Sudbury.  Took their flight to Brandon and the plane was full; not sure why they stopped.


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