# Wars you were unaware of



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Aug 2005)

For something different, post here for Wars you have come across that you were unaware ever happened. For me it was the Polish-Soviet War Feb 1919 until March 1921.


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## Michael Dorosh (29 Aug 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> For something different, post here for Wars you have come across that you were unaware ever happened. For me it was the Polish-Soviet War Feb 1919 until March 1921.



My mother tells me she never read any war history when I was in the womb, so I am going to list "all of them."

That whole WW II thing freaked me out when I heard about it, though.


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## Britney Spears (29 Aug 2005)

I agree with Micheal Dorosh. It iS kind of a faulty premesis, no?

I think a better starting off point would perhaps be "Wars which you are familiar with, and were pivotal points in history, yet no one seems to have ever heard of them".


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## Ex-Dragoon (29 Aug 2005)

The point is to discuss wars you have come across by other research or whatever and sxclaiming"Wow I never knew that occured".


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## Britney Spears (29 Aug 2005)

Do you think the war sparked a lot of fear in Russia of further Polish invasions in the future?


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## Ex-Dragoon (29 Aug 2005)

I think it helped set the stage for the Soviet Invasion of Poland at the start of WW2.


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## Britney Spears (29 Aug 2005)

So really, the WW2 invasion of Poland was really just pre-emptive self defence for the Russians, hmm?


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## big_johnson1 (29 Aug 2005)

I know this is technically part of WWII but the invasion of the Aleutian Islands by the Japanese in 1942. What a brutal place to fight a campaign. Read the history in "The Thousand Mile War" by Brian Garfield.. The mistakes made by the Japanese in this campaign could have cost them the war, even though we never hear about it (well I didn't know about it anyways).


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## Ex-Dragoon (29 Aug 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> So really, the WW2 invasion of Poland was really just pre-emptive self defence for the Russians, hmm?



Well the russian have always regarded their threats from the West so why not? Those Polish Lancers could take out a T34 with ease


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## Maritime_Matt (29 Aug 2005)

This is a list of wars compiled by Wikipedia. Don't know how complete this is, as Wikipedia is created by people who use it. Helpful in that it's devided by period of time, countries, etc. Has external links + images. Very interesting. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars

Also- slightly off topic, but Wikipedia has a list of conflicts Canada has been involved in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada


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## Cloud Cover (29 Aug 2005)

The War of the Thousand Days  (1899-1902)--Civil war in Colombia between the Liberal Party and the ruling Conservative Party. Begins October 18, 1899 with an uprising in the north-eastern Santander region in response to government imposition of martial law throughout the nation.   


and ..

The war against the Vietnamese guerillas that France actually won after a 30 year fight:    De Tham Guerrilla Resistance War.


My all time favorite war that I know absolutely nothing about: the war between France and the USA in 1798-1800. Where was it fought, what was it fought over, who was the victor [of any]??   And, where were the Naval battl;es fought in this war? What side did the British support?   

Cheers.


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## Michael Dorosh (29 Aug 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> I agree with Micheal Dorosh. It iS kind of a faulty premesis, no?



I don't know what's worse, spelling my name wrong or inventing words out of whole cloth.   Anyone ever tell you that you type like an infantryman?

How does the civil war in Poland in the 1920s relate to the Soviet invasion of 1939?


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## Cloud Cover (29 Aug 2005)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> My all time favorite war that I know absolutely nothing about: the war between France and the USA in 1798-1800. Where was it fought, what was it fought over, who was the victor [of any]??   And, where were the Naval battl;es fought in this war? What side did the British support?



Ask a silly question... and you get a Quasi War:
The Quasi-War was an undeclared war fought entirely at sea between the United States and France from 1798 to 1800.

The pirates of the Mediterranean Sea caused the U.S. Congress in 1794 to begin building a navy for the protection of commerce. Shortly thereafter, depredations by the privateers of Revolutionary France required the US Navy to protect the expanding merchant shipping of the United States. Naval squadrons sought out and attacked enemy privateers until France agreed to an honorable settlement.

The Quasi-War started on July 7, 1798 when the United States Congress rescinded treaties with France.

Captain Thomas Truxtun's insistence on the highest standards of crew training paid handsome dividends as the frigate Constellation won two victories over French men-of-war. Eight cutters (one sloop, five schooners, and two brigs) operated along the southern coast of the United States and among the islands of the West Indies. The two brigs and two of the schooners each carried 14 guns and 70 men. The sloop and the other schooners each had ten guns and 34 men. Of the twenty-two prizes captured by the United States between 1798 and 1799, eighteen were taken by unaided cutters. Revenue cutters also assisted in capturing two others. The cutter Pickering made two cruises to the West Indies and captured ten prizes, one of which carried 44 guns and was manned by some 200 sailors, more than three times Pickering's strength.

The Quasi-War was ended by the Convention of 1800 (Treaty of Mortefontaine).


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## Cloud Cover (29 Aug 2005)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> The cutter Pickering made two cruises to the West Indies and captured ten prizes, one of which carried 44 guns and was manned by some 200  sailors, more than three times Pickering's strength.



Did this become the USS Chesapeake?


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## Britney Spears (29 Aug 2005)

Point taken Michael, I always had trouble with that damned "Premises".


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## Michael Dorosh (29 Aug 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> Point taken Michael, I always had trouble with that damned "Premises".



You still look great in a minskirt, baby. 

But seriously, I thought the USSR were more trying to put up a buffer between them and Germany - see the Baltic states that year also.  Did they really still have axes to grind vis a vis 1919-1921?


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## Cloud Cover (29 Aug 2005)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> Did this become the USS Chesapeake?



Guess not: http://www.nnsy1.navy.mil/History/CHESAPEA.HTM


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## medicineman (29 Aug 2005)

Feral said:
			
		

> I know this is technically part of WWII but the invasion of the Aleutian Islands by the Japanese in 1942. What a brutal place to fight a campaign. Read the history in "The Thousand Mile War" by Brian Garfield.. The mistakes made by the Japanese in this campaign could have cost them the war, even though we never hear about it (well I didn't know about it anyways).




Oddly enough, the island of Kiska in the Aleutians was recaptured by elements of the First Special Serivce Force (aka the Devil's Brigade for movie buffs).  

MM


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## Michael Dorosh (29 Aug 2005)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Oddly enough, the island of Kiska in the Aleutians was recaptured by elements of the First Special Serivce Force (aka the Devil's Brigade for movie buffs).
> 
> MM



What's the odd part?

Canadian draftees were also sent into combat here; though the Japanese did not oblige by running away.  Since it was North American soil, the government got around their pledge of not sending draftees into action "overseas" - which they skirted after the referendum in 1944 anyway.


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## medicineman (29 Aug 2005)

Nothing too odd, other than it was one of the few times Canadian land forces saw action in the Pacific theatre - Hong Kong being the other noteable one.

MM


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## Zartan (30 Aug 2005)

Interestingly enough, the Canadians involved in the (Kiska) campaign were armed and equipped with American gear. Also, the HMCS Uganda was involved in fighting against the Japanese in 1945 with the British Pacific Fleet.

Personally, the conflicts which have taken me most by surprise were the Boxer Rebellion and the Spanish Civil War. Not that I was unaware of them (having seen movies on both when I was much younger), but rather due to the variety of forces involved. When I read about them in detail (or not), I was amazed. The Foreign Brigades, the Nazis, Soviets, Anarchists, Communists, Nationalists, and god only knows what else involved in the Spanish Civil War just blew me away - all the various organizations, for example, and the multi-national army that fought the Boxers.

However, of all wars, this one "takes the cake": http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2005)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Nothing too odd, other than it was one of the few times Canadian land forces saw action in the Pacific theatre - Hong Kong being the other noteable one.
> 
> MM



Grand Allied strategy was "Germany First".  *shrugs*  We went along with that knowing the US had the situation well in hand - lucky for us.  The Aleutians were a bust as far as "action" went, there were no Japanese to oppose them.  I'm not aware of any other Pacific theatre combat actions involving Canadian ground forces aside from Hong Kong, though some men did serve in Signals units in the South Pacific, and the Canadian Army Pacific Force went into training in the US before the A-Bombings.  Large numbers of troops did serve full time in Atlantic Command in British Columbia, on garrison duty, coastal defence duty, and training to combat any potential Japanese landings on the North American continent.


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2005)

Zartan said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough, the Canadians involved in the (Kiska) campaign were armed and equipped with American gear. Also, the HMCS Uganda was involved in fighting against the Japanese in 1945 with the British Pacific Fleet.



Equipped yes, armed no.  They wore mostly US equipment, including helmets and webbing, but weapons were still Canadian.  Respirators and uniforms were Canadian, most everything else was US.  Training on foreign weapons would have been a liability to the force - finding 3000 M-1 Garands, carbines and BARs to use in Canada during their work-up training would have been problematic, I suppose (?)  Not sure how much notice the Brigade had to move, either.


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## medicineman (30 Aug 2005)

Again, that goes back to a number of the Canadians involved being with the 1SSF.  Being from Vancouver Island, I am also very aware of the troops that were in BC for coastal defense - a number of the coast arty defences are still in and around Victoria as national historic sites or city parks.  The Island was also the victim (albeit minor) of the only delberate Japanese attack on Canadian soil - the shelling of Estevan Lighthouse by a Japanese submarine in 1942.  There was of course the odd balloon bomb that made it over as well...

MM


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## big_johnson1 (30 Aug 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Grand Allied strategy was "Germany First".   *shrugs*   We went along with that knowing the US had the situation well in hand - lucky for us.   The Aleutians were a bust as far as "action" went, there were no Japanese to oppose them.   I'm not aware of any other Pacific theatre combat actions



Actually, Kiska was the last island to be invaded, and yes, it was a *bust*, as the 5200 Japanese had retreated days before by submarine. 35000 Allied troops invaded Kiska expecting action, with 5300 Canadians as part of the invasion force: members of the Rocky Mountain Rangers, Winnipeg Grenadiers, Canadian Fusiliers, and Le Regiment de Hull. Canadian warships and fighter squadrons supported the action.

Attu on the other hand, was not a *bust*. Landing Force Attu was the 1st amphibious island assault in history, that ended with 28 Japanese survivors from an initial force of 2600 troops. The allied forces suffered 3800 casualties out of somewhere around 12000 to 13000 invading troops.

A Japanese Zero shot down over one of the Aleutians was recovered almost completely intact, leading the US to develop the F6F Hellcat. The plane was fully functional save for a single bullet hole that severed the engine oil pressure gauge indicator line, convincing the pilot that his engine was going to go and forcing him to attempt a landing on the island tundra. The Alcan highway was also built to supply the war, and the battle of Midway was made that much easier with a Japanese carrier group in the North Pacific instead of in the battle.


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## Jungle (30 Aug 2005)

Feral said:
			
		

> ...with 5300 Canadians as part of the invasion force: members of the Rocky Mountain Rangers, Winnipeg Grenadiers, Canadian Fusiliers, and Le Regiment de Hull.


That is correct; I used to know a man who was in the Régiment de Hull (which was an Infantry unit at the time) who participated in the landing on Kiska. They were expecting a big fight...


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2005)

Jungle said:
			
		

> That is correct; I used to know a man who was in the Régiment de Hull (which was an Infantry unit at the time) who participated in the landing on Kiska. They were expecting a big fight...




Which is why so many draftees deserted before the brigade sailed. *L*


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2005)

Feral said:
			
		

> Actually, Kiska was the last island to be invaded, and yes, it was a *bust*, as the 5200 Japanese had retreated days before by submarine. 35000 Allied troops invaded Kiska expecting action, with 5300 Canadians as part of the invasion force: members of the Rocky Mountain Rangers, Winnipeg Grenadiers, Canadian Fusiliers, and Le Regiment de Hull. Canadian warships and fighter squadrons supported the action.
> 
> Attu on the other hand, was not a *bust*. Landing Force Attu was the 1st amphibious island assault in history,



Huh?  What about Wake Island?



> that ended with 28 Japanese survivors from an initial force of 2600 troops. The allied forces suffered 3800 casualties out of somewhere around 12000 to 13000 invading troops.



But no Canadians - interesting point though.



> A Japanese Zero shot down over one of the Aleutians was recovered almost completely intact, leading the US to develop the F6F Hellcat. The plane was fully functional save for a single bullet hole that severed the engine oil pressure gauge indicator line, convincing the pilot that his engine was going to go and forcing him to attempt a landing on the island tundra. The Alcan highway was also built to supply the war, and the battle of Midway was made that much easier with a Japanese carrier group in the North Pacific instead of in the battle.



No - this was during the Japanese invasion in June 1942 - a diversion to draw US forces away from Midway.  The Hellcat was not developed until well after Midway.  The main Japanese carrier force at Midway still had four first line carriers, I believe two smaller carriers were used in the invasion of June 1942.  It sounds like you're confusing the landing there by the Japanese with the counter landings in 1943 by the Allies?


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## Roger (30 Aug 2005)

There was also the War of 1870 between France and Germany, never heard of it till I visited grave sights in Luxemburg, in the German cemetery they had German graves form the war of 1870, WW1 and WW2.


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

Michael

How did you get from the war in the Aleutians to Wake Island and the South Pacific?  ???


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Michael
> 
> How did you get from the war in the Aleutians to Wake Island and the South Pacific?   ???



Trying to follow the jumbled list of the original poster. There were two seperate landings in the Aleutians - the Japanese in June 1942, which he claims was the first amphibious assault of an island in history, and the second landings in 1943 by the Allies.

The first amphibious assault on an island couldn't be the Aleutians, because Wake Island happened several weeks if not months earlier.

The crash landing of the Zero occured in 1942, I thought, during the Japanese invasion.  He is correct that the captured Zero was used to develop the Hellcat (F6F).

The Allies landed in 1943 to reclaim the islands.  Canadian forces in the invasion saw no combat, though as correctly mentioned, US forces did see combat.  The Aleutian fighting was conducted on several islands, which is why the US got the luck of the draw as far as finding the Japanese, while Canadian forces did not.


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## Jungle (30 Aug 2005)

And don't forget the "Christmas" war between Mali and Burkina Faso in 1985. These 2 countries were very good at small unit tactics... 'cause that's all they had: a few Platoons each !!!   :blotto:
They were fighting for a strip of land that was thought to contain substantial natural resources... Gee, I wonder how come the US didn't get involved, kick everyone's ass, steal everything then run away ??   ;D


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## nowhere_man (30 Aug 2005)

One war that i have just recently been informed about (because i visited the US this summer) is the Barbary wars. which were between the USA and basically a bunch of pirates over trade routes in the Med or something like that.


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Aug 2005)

nowhere_man said:
			
		

> One war that i have just recently been informed about (because i visited the US this summer) is the Barbary wars. which were between the USA and basically a bunch of pirates over trade routes in the Med or something like that.



Where the line in the Marine Corp Hymn came from "to the shores of Tripoli".


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## Jungle (30 Aug 2005)

Just to add some details about the dispute between Upper Volta (renamed Burkina Faso in 1985) and Mali: there was a "first" war about the Agacher strip in 1974. Here's a description of the conflagration:


> The dispute erupted into armed conflict for the first time on 25 November 1974. *The conflict was characterized by a lack of military operations or any significant fighting*.


 ;D
I said it earlier, they were specialists in small unit tactics: they were so good they couldn't find each other in 1974 !!! :blotto:


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## larry Strong (30 Aug 2005)

I have always been fasinated by the Battle of Camerone, in Mexico in 1863.

"It was in Mexico on 30 April 1863 that the Legion earned its legendary status. The small infantry patrol unit led by Capitaine Danjou numbering 62 soldiers and 3 officers was attacked and besieged by Mexican infantry and cavalry units numbering 3 battalions, and was forced to make a defense in Hacienda CamarÃƒÂ³n. The battle went on for over 10 hours, and despite the hopelessness of the situation they fought nearly to the last man. Danjou was mortally wounded in the defense of the hacienda, and the last of his men mounted a desperate bayonet attack. When the last three survivors were asked to surrender, they insisted that the Mexican soldiers allow them safe passage back home, to keep their flag, and to escort the body of the fallen Danjou. Upon seeing this, the Mexican commander commented, "these are not men, they are devils," and out of respect agreed to these terms.

Today the "Camerone Day" is an important day of celebration for the Legionnaires, when the wooden prosthetic hand of Capitane Danjou is brought on display"


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## Armymedic (30 Aug 2005)

The Anglo-Afghan wars.

What surprised me the most is that in 1919, a British-Indian Army was able to invade into Afghanistan the yr after WW1, gaining victory in May of 1919.


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## Zartan (31 Aug 2005)

The Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran in World War 2.

The Paraguayan War (War of the Triple Alliance) - Paraguay's population dropped 60% during the six years the war was fought.


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## Mojo Magnum (31 Aug 2005)

I didn't know about the "Boer" war until the History channel filled me in.

I was out jogging the other day and it turns out that Sir Samuel Steele grew up right behind my house.   

Oro Medonte guy does good, hope some of that down home spirit rubs off on me.


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## Danjanou (31 Aug 2005)

The 1969 Football War between El Salvador and Honduras

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/sierra/soccer1969.htm

Been down there, there are still disputed areas on the border, depending on what map you look at. Also pretty mountainous terrain to have to fight in.


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## big_johnson1 (31 Aug 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> No - this was during the Japanese invasion in June 1942 - a diversion to draw US forces away from Midway.   The Hellcat was not developed until well after Midway.   The main Japanese carrier force at Midway still had four first line carriers, I believe two smaller carriers were used in the invasion of June 1942.   It sounds like you're confusing the landing there by the Japanese with the counter landings in 1943 by the Allies?



It seems that last paragraph of mine wasn't clear. Yes, the Zero was captured early on in the war, and while the Hellcat wasn't entirely based on this plane, it did give US engineers something to work with to improve their own design. And I should have specified that it was the US Army's (not the Marines) first amphibious island assault, in May of 1943, when they invaded Attu.

And you are right, the carrier group that attacked the Aleutians did have two carriers, with two heavy cruisers and three destroyers. They were accompanied by another naval force of four cruisers, nine destroyers, and the troops that would invade the Aleutians. It's interesting to note that after the Japanese defeat at Midway, the Aleutians became a way for them to save face, even though it had only been invaded as a diversionary tactic as a part of the massive Midway battle.

Either way, it was a fascinating campaign that isn't really common knowledge.


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## Michael Dorosh (31 Aug 2005)

Ah, good stuff, thanks for the clarifications.


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## Acorn (31 Aug 2005)

Personal favorite "discovered" some time ago: The Pig War of 1859. The only casualty was the "British" pig, shot by an "American" farmer. The troops faced off, but never actually engaged.

Acorn


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## medicineman (1 Sep 2005)

Weird, I was just thinking of that one - the war that never got off.  Was in the San Juan Islands between Vancouver Island  and Washington state - the US and Canada (really the UK - they were the ones going to do the fighting on "our" behalf) to redraw the border there.  It resulted in the election slogan for the US presidential election of "54-40 or Fight" in reference to the latitude of the of where they wanted the border drawn through BC.  On another note, that's likely where the band 54-40 got their name from.

MM


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## George Wallace (1 Sep 2005)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> I think the 54 40 or fight slogan was referring to land a "little" north of Vancouver island.
> 
> http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa031600a.htm



Looking at your enclosed link, I think you missed the point.   At that time, did not Alaska still belong to Russia?   So the US wanted to claim all the lands up to Alaska.   That may have resulted in a much larger USA than today, and an end to present day 'Western Canadian Separation Movements'.


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## medicineman (1 Sep 2005)

The San Juan's were part of an excuse by expansionists in the US to not only try to put the border as the 49th without exceptions (you'll notice that a good chunk of the Island is below the 49th) but go further north.  The Americans didn't really believe that the UK would stand in the way, but they did (or at least did a good bluff at it).  

MM


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## Monsoon (1 Sep 2005)

Along the same vein as the Pig War was the Aroostock War - a boundary dispute between New Brunswick and Maine in 1838.  A few hundred soldiers on each side were send to the area and a settlement treaty was reached in 1842 - the Webster-Ashburton Treaty.  The British negotiator used a fake map that showed that the whole area belonged to New Brunswick to convince the Americans to agree on a compromise.  In the meantime, some locals declared "The Republic of Madawaska" centred on Edmundston, NB while the area was under dispute.

The Americans claim to have suffered one casualty, Pvt Hiram T. Smith, but it's not clear what killed him as he died many miles from the area.


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## nowhere_man (1 Sep 2005)

One that i didn't know about until recently was the Russo-Finnish war in the winter of 1939. The Russians Had tanks and overwhelming men and they still almost lost. there was one account i read about where a Finnish soldier skied into a Russian camp and actually got in line for the mess was served and then after he ate (in the mess) he was finally discovered.


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## Zartan (1 Sep 2005)

medicineman said:
			
		

> On another note, that's likely where the band 54-40 got their name from.
> 
> MM



It was. 

Also, in 1848, the United States annexed the southern half of Britain's Columbia Territory (the population was predominantly American anyways). Hence British Columbia. The new American land became Oregon Territory. When it came to the 49th parallel, the Kaiser of Germany had to moderate a solution to a problem - the San Juan Islands and Point Roberts. The latter is currently an American enclave situated on a peninsula jetting south of Vancouver, and is separated from the United States by Canada. My dad, who once lived near there, said it was great for drug smugglers, as the children had to be bused across the border to go to school, and some were used as drug mules.

On a different note, I can't remember what these were called, but I have heard of invasions of Caribbean and Latin American countries by American civilians. Anyone else?


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## Cloud Cover (1 Sep 2005)

Zartan said:
			
		

> On a different note, I can't remember what these were called, but I have heard of invasions of Caribbean and Latin American countries by American civilians. Anyone else?



Tourists, and Eco-Tourists. Hordes of them, worse than Vikings.


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## Danjanou (1 Sep 2005)

Zartan said:
			
		

> On a different note, I can't remember what these were called, but I have heard of invasions of Caribbean and Latin American countries by American civilians. Anyone else?



Well I can confirm the stories of hordes of eco tourists (always ahead of me in the line up at the swim up all inclusive bar :threat I think what you're looking for is info about William Walker:

http://www.calnative.com/stories/n_walk.htm

One thing about Walker, love him or hate him, the guy didn't thinmk small.


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## Zartan (1 Sep 2005)

That's the group! (the filibusters). Thank you. Very interesting fellow - he really did make history.


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