# Supplements



## Mr.Neville

Hello all, I'll try and keep this as brief as possible. My close friend who is really into body building is trying to convince me to drop an absurd amount of money (he spends several hundred dollars a month) on supplements he uses for building muscle mass. I'm not the gym jock that he is, but I do lots of cardio and calisthenics to stay in shape, almost daily. A quick google search has showed me that products such as whey protein, casein protein and creatine monohydrate will most likely have no effect on my body unless I'm lifting weights. He believes that taking supplements could help improve all around health, although I think it would just be a waste of money. Does anybody have any experience with this that could lend me a few words of advice, or any recommendations for supplements/vitamins for all around health or to help improve cardiovascular strength?

   Thanks for reading the novel above, any help is much appreciated.


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## Noctis

Been there, done that. Waste of money imho. Buy good, healthy nutritious actual food instead and aim for 5 light meals a day. Make your biggest meal right after your workout.


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## George Wallace

VancouverIslandHunter said:
			
		

> Hello all, I'll try and keep this as brief as possible. My close friend who is really into body building is trying to convince me to drop an absurd amount of money (he spends several hundred dollars a month) on supplements he uses for building muscle mass. I'm not the gym jock that he is, but I do lots of cardio and calisthenics to stay in shape, almost daily. A quick google search has showed me that products such as whey protein, casein protein and creatine monohydrate will most likely have no effect on my body unless I'm lifting weights. He believes that taking supplements could help improve all around health, although I think it would just be a waste of money. Does anybody have any experience with this that could lend me a few words of advice, or any recommendations for supplements/vitamins for all around health or to help improve cardiovascular strength?
> 
> Thanks for reading the novel above, any help is much appreciated.



We have a lot of topics on SUPPLEMENTS.  If you read them you will find a lot of information that will help you in your quest.  I agree with what you have said, and have seen the end results of some of these guys who take those supplements and what happens to them later in life.  I am of the "natural" frame of mind; what my body needs should be provided in a proper daily diet, not needing supplements other than perhaps Vitamins.  I am also cheap and find spending money on supplements, I can spend it on other things.  Don't fall prey to peer pressure.


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## Jarnhamar

It  comes down to personal preference, trial and error, placebo effect, what you research on your own. 


You could just take a multivitamin the morning. Taking whey type protein and not lifting weights, I've read, is a good way to get fat. 

Some people (me) have a whole system. 
Hypershred Fat burner and Vita freak pill pack(including multivitamin) in the morning. 
Two scoops of protein in lieu of breakfast. 
Hyper fx pre workout drink before a workout 
Work out drink with amino acids during a workout (revolution bcaa splash) 
Two scoops of protein after your work out. 

It can get expensive. Professional body builders will take 4000-6000 calories a day, not many dudes can spend that on groceries not to mention supplements. 

If you're going to try supplements start slow and do a lot of reading. Its like people doing pt for the first time. They try and do the heaviest weight they can 7 days a week and run half a marathon. Overdo it. 
They just screw themselves up. Bodybuilding.com would be a better research too than this site.


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## Smirnoff123

I have tried creatine but I have stopped using it now and I use whey protein. I tend to take less then the reccommended amounts.


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## George Wallace

C.G.R said:
			
		

> I have tried creatine but I have stopped using it now and I use whey protein. I tend to take less then the reccommended amounts.



Creatine?  That is high on the Cancer causing list, isn't it?


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## Smirnoff123

I have not heard that. It is a very commonly used supplement, the one thing I have researched however is that it may cause liver damage long term..

But it wouldnt surprise me, everything seems to cause cancer now.


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## Mr.Neville

Thanks for the advice guys, I think I'm going to pass on them, I wasn't particularly fond of them in the first place and the cons seems to vastly outweigh the pros. If I'm gonna get fat and have cancer I'm going to do it eating Boston Cream donuts. After more research though I'm going to go out and buy some Fish Oil pills today because I never eat any seafood (can't stand the taste) and apparently being deficient in Omega-3's is quite common. and @George Wallace, I did do a quick search of Supplements, Creatine, and Protein, nothing showed up under the first, and the second two couldn't find my answers. 

Thanks for the help everyone, I'm gonna save my money.


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## Jarnhamar

I tried creatine for a while. I found a bit of an increase in strength (weight lifting) but a significant loss in cardio, endurance and muscle stamina.

Some people suggest Protein can lead to short term memory loss.

High protein low carb diets seem to reduce mental clarity.


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## Smirnoff123

The biggest pain for me while taking creatine is the amount of water that I had to drink to sustain it. I drink a lot of water to begin with.


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## Mr.Neville

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Some people suggest Protein can lead to short term memory loss.
> 
> High protein low carb diets seem to reduce mental clarity.



I find that hilirious because the friend I was referencing is a bit... dopey, we usually make tease him by imatating his voice "Da, I'm Frank, Me strong. Me lift things up. Me put them down". It's all in good fun and Frank isn't his real name. Regardless I think I will pass, I'm happy with my body at the moment.


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## bgray

Just eat right, stay away from fast food and junk. Food is fuel, just eat properly. My buddies powerlift (PR 400+ front squat) and they take nothing. 

 I used to use whey to help my muscles heal quicker, but theres no point, save your money. Just remember to stretch and eat right.

 WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID! I take Mpower sometimes, look that up; I went to the gym yesterday and instead of being there my normal hour, hour and 20, I was there for 2 hours (and had to tell myself to stop). 

 ** I'm a relatively fit female... wtf do I know.


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## Mr.Neville

Thanks for the advice Bgray, that's pretty much what I do already, I've decided to not even bother with wasting my money. Supplements seems quite sketchy and I'm sure an egg or two in the morning will give me just enough protein as it is. I'll be sure to look it up


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## Smirnoff123

If you buy whey protein at Costco it only costs about $40 for a big 2kg tub of it, which lasts quite a while. In only one scoop there is 25g of protein and only 120 calories, 2g of fat and 1g of sugar for the brand that I have. It is pretty hard to get that much concentrated protein, however it is obviously still a must to have a proper diet in addition to the supplement.


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## Eye In The Sky

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Creatine?  That is high on the Cancer causing list, isn't it?



I certainly hope not, being that every person's body produces it, but like any supplement, if not taken with due regard it can be damaging.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/creatine/NS_patient-creatine/DSECTION=safety


I have taken creatine before, creatine monohydrate (5g) in a glass of water 30 minutes before weights.  And thats the only time I've taken it.  30 min's is the optimum time before a workout (with the monohydrate powder).  Without getting into a long blurb about it, basically that is when you're body will absorb and actually use it.  Any other time, you just piss it out.

I get a few extra reps, quicker recovery and a good pump.  But I also never take it for more than a few weeks on, then go a few weeks off.  Expect weight gain, as you will suck in and retain lots of water (approx 2lb/liter).  

Any creatine your muscles don't use above and beyond the natural state, your body (liver) turns into something called creatinine (or something like that).  The damage comes when you over-use, your liver has to get rid of it over and over and over...

Like anything, research and make an educated decision.  I like the MayoClinic, reputable website that I don't have to question the content being legit.

 :2c:


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## Eye In The Sky

C.G.R said:
			
		

> If you buy whey protein at Costco it only costs about $40 for a big 2kg tub of it, which lasts quite a while. In only one scoop there is 25g of protein and only 120 calories, 2g of fat and 1g of sugar for the brand that I have. It is pretty hard to get that much concentrated protein, however it is obviously still a must to have a proper diet in addition to the supplement.



I use one of the Costco brands as well, and and found that it is a better deal than what I was using (ISO Xp) dollar-wise.  Before buying, you need to check your 'bang for the buck' on the stuff.

Basically, look at the 'serving size' and then look at how many grams of protein is in it.  The higher the better, Iso XP is the best I've had (58g serving has 50g of protein, I use 1/2 scoop for 1 serving).  The lower the % of protein, the more crap and filler there is.  1 of the Costco types was junk IMO, and one was good (can't remember the name, white container with green stickers on it IIRC).

I ONLY take protein powder right after weights, but thats because I do my weights on the way home and after that I still have a 30 min drive.  I've been up and on the go since about 0530 at that point and need something easy and quick until supper.   I just use water and the powder and get some protein downrange quick.  I'm not fond of driving and trying to scorff down some tuna or something.

Take the time sometime to see just how much protein you are getting in all the other foods you eat, you'll be amazed.  I did it once, added it all up and found out I was almost getting enough just from eating (healthy) and using the *bodyweight X 1.5 = total amount of protein in grams needed* when I was trying to put some muscle on.  You don't know how much you need, or IF you need, to supplement if you don't know how much you are getting now compared to how much you should be getting a day.

If you really want to get into the weeds, get your body fat % done (can do at home with calipers), and then figure out your lean body mass...that is the number you are looking to use to figure out your grams of protein a day...why feed fat right?


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## Smirnoff123

Isnt creatine supposed to be used post work out? Another thing I read up on was if you keep using creatine it is possible for your body to stop naturally producing it.


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## Eye In The Sky

All the research I did, pointed me to decide to take it before so I used it during.  It was a combo of reading what it actual does, and what happens to what you don't use (liver turns it into something and you piss it out).  I am sure there are many different ideas but...

Yes I read that about your body slowing natural production, etc which is why I cycle on/off times of equal amount and ONLY use it on days I do weights.


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## Smirnoff123

Seen, I just followed the directions on the back of the tub which said to take it after. IIRC it also said take double the amount for the first week (which I did not do), and cycle on 6 week periods.


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## Mr.Neville

Eye in the Sky, if I ever do get into lots of weight-lifting I will take your advice and buy the costco brand, that seems like a pretty good deal. This creatine sh*t kind of sound like a scam to me, I know it works, it just seems really finicky. Thanks for all the replies and info guys, it's all been really useful.


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## Eye In The Sky

I am not 'advising' to take it...I am suggesting that you make sure you need it and if you decide to use it, make sure you aren't putting crap into your body for no reason though. 

FWIW, I also talked to a nutritionist employed by the CF...wealth of info out there, make sure the stuff you make decisions on is credible.


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## Muscles And Brains

Someone told me that using such pills is against military law, well atleast on the initial courses it is.


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## Eye In The Sky

It is against the policy put out by the Commandant of CFLRS.  Direction found in the Joining Instructions on the CFLRS site.


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## Anakha

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I use one of the Costco brands as well, and and found that it is a better deal than what I was using (ISO Xp) dollar-wise.  Before buying, you need to check your 'bang for the buck' on the stuff.
> 
> Basically, look at the 'serving size' and then look at how many grams of protein is in it.  The higher the better, Iso XP is the best I've had (58g serving has 50g of protein, I use 1/2 scoop for 1 serving).  The lower the % of protein, the more crap and filler there is.  1 of the Costco types was junk IMO, and one was good (can't remember the name, white container with green stickers on it IIRC).



You're thinking of the Kaizen brand. Costco has been raising the price on it steadily in the last year and I think it's up to 48.99 now for a 5lb jug. It's still (IMHO) the best value for whey protein in most local markets by its very low carb, sugar, and fat. No chemicals or bells and whistles that are usually unnecessary and saturate the crap one buys for $90+ at GNC either. 

One large mistake that a lot of young guys trying to put on muscle make is oversaturating their bodies with protein. A body can only absorb so much so fast, and if it's taken in lieu of carbs their workout will inevitably suffer due to lack of energy. I've seen guys taking 300+ grams per day and it's just unnecessary and ineffective.


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## Brandonfw

Anakha said:
			
		

> You're thinking of the Kaizen brand. Costco has been raising the price on it steadily in the last year and I think it's up to 48.99 now for a 5lb jug. It's still (IMHO) the best value for whey protein in most local markets by its very low carb, sugar, and fat. No chemicals or bells and whistles that are usually unnecessary and saturate the crap one buys for $90+ at GNC either.
> 
> One large mistake that a lot of young guys trying to put on muscle make is oversaturating their bodies with protein. A body can only absorb so much so fast, and if it's taken in lieu of carbs their workout will inevitably suffer due to lack of energy. I've seen guys taking 300+ grams per day and it's just unnecessary and ineffective.



Anakha, you do realize that this was about 6 months old eh? 

But I find using post workout mixes helps a lot, I use to take post work out afterwards, and I never, and I mean never since I used it at the time felt any post pain. But thats just me.  Now I gotta get back into shape as I havent worked in quite some time.......... 

-Brandon


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## CBH99

Just tagging onto this topic - SuperStore has their own brand of whey isolate protein.

Its made by the Presidents Choice brand - very affordable, low fat, low sugar, low carb, and tastes great.  Not a super strong taste either, so it mixes well with the rest of your post workout shake.  

Their vanilla flavor is great for baking with, for those of us who are muscle addicts and everything in our diet has to serve a purpose.  (Great for protein pancakes, protein granola bars, etc etc.)


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## Anakha

Brandonfw said:
			
		

> Anakha, you do realize that this was about 6 months old eh?
> 
> But I find using post workout mixes helps a lot, I use to take post work out afterwards, and I never, and I mean never since I used it at the time felt any post pain. But thats just me.  Now I gotta get back into shape as I havent worked in quite some time..........
> 
> -Brandon



Better late than never?  ;D


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## Nemo888

,..and it is still only 48.99 at Costco. IMO it's quality stuff without the fillers. Bought two tubs last week. The vanilla tastes better than the chocolate. Buy some All Greens and Omega 3 fish oil with it while you are there.


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## Anakha

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> ,..and it is still only 48.99 at Costco. IMO it's quality stuff without the fillers. Bought two tubs last week. The vanilla tastes better than the chocolate. Buy some All Greens and Omega 3 fish oil with it while you are there.



I prefer the chocolate. I found the vanilla kind of chalky tasting, but the Decadent Chocolate tasted more like an actual milk shake. 

To each his own, though. And even the vanilla tastes much better than most protein powders which most resemble dirty gravel wrapped in fail.


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## Journeyman

Anakha said:
			
		

> ...... most protein powders which most resemble dirty gravel wrapped in *fail*.


Not sure if that's a typo for "foil," or bitch-slapping people who prefer vanilla.  Funny, either way.    ;D


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## Anakha

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Not sure if that's a typo for "foil," or *****-slapping people who prefer vanilla.  Funny, either way.    ;D



Wasn't a typo or a slight to vanilla lovers, but more of a commentary on the large majority of protein powders that promise "great taste!" and deliver nothing of the sort.  :boke:  ;D

(edit: Added barfy guy)


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## Jarnhamar

Protein powders are designed to taste like crap to people who shouldn't be drinking them.

Fact.


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## Brandonfw

I use to have a orange flavor for my pre workout mixes when I was in the police college, and lemon-lime mix for post workouts. tasted extremely good, especially if mixed properly.  With my current civi job, I DO get a 10-15% discount off of supplements at Supplement Kings here in Halifax 
Haters gonna hate 

-Brandon


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## Anakha

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Protein powders are designed to taste like crap to people who shouldn't be drinking them.
> 
> Fact.



 :


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## George Wallace

Brandonfw said:
			
		

> I use to have a orange flavor for my pre workout mixes when I was in the police college, and lemon-lime mix for post workouts. tasted extremely good, especially if mixed properly.  With my current civi job, I DO get a 10-15% discount off of supplements at Supplement Kings here in Halifax
> Haters gonna hate
> 
> -Brandon



 :-\

And have you looked at the ingredients used to flavour your mixes?  The wife having been diagnosed with Cancer now has us reading the labels on all products that we are injesting, and the amount of carcinogenic additives, preservatives, pesticides, etc. in our foods (including supplements and even vitamins) is amazing.  To flavour your food, they have to add something that is not 'natural' or high in sugar.  This is a bad thing.


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## Brandonfw

George Wallace said:
			
		

> :-\
> 
> And have you looked at the ingredients used to flavour your mixes?  The wife having been diagnosed with Cancer now has us reading the labels on all products that we are injesting, and the amount of carcinogenic additives, preservatives, pesticides, etc. in our foods (including supplements and even vitamins) is amazing.  To flavour your food, they have to add something that is not 'natural' or high in sugar.  This is a bad thing.



I was about to say Crystal Light packets are not too bad as they are only 5 calories... But I just read into a page of the ingrediants, and I am completely shocked :crybaby: 

But one way to actually lose weight, is to play Dance Dance Revolution XD That's what I did for less than a year, and lost around 100 pounds  ;D (well, eatin healthy helps with that too)  ;D

-Brandon


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## Eye In The Sky

I hope you lie and tell people you did Ironman trg or something vice "Dance Dance Revolution"   ;D

And if you DID tell the truth...how long before the jokes about "Richard Simmons Sweatin' To The Oldies" began??   >


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## Brandonfw

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I hope you lie and tell people you did Ironman trg or something vice "Dance Dance Revolution"   ;D
> 
> And if you DID tell the truth...how long before the jokes about "Richard Simmons Sweatin' To The Oldies" began??   >



You *** lol. I didn't lie, people get a good laugh out of it, but i didn't lie  And nope, no jokes about Richard XD but hey, great and fun way to lose so much weight! I was almost 300 pounds in 2009, come fall of 2010 i was 175 pounds!! ... But, since I met my woman, I kinda gained a gut back again, weighing around 215-220 XD I gotta get back into shape.... too bad I no longer have DDR  >

-Brandon


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## petercushing

Not roids but I take Cellucor C4 really gives me that extra boost of energy needed. I like to drink Red Bull as well.


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## KerryBlue

When I was playing football in grade 12, leading up to my first year I was taking NoXplode, Purple K, and Anabolic Prescription. I went from a 225 max bench to 305 bench in about 6 months, and put on about 20lbs in muscle. Now not so much anything, more about watching what I eat and just exercising.


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## Jarnhamar

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> When I was playing football in grade 12, leading up to my first year I was taking NoXplode, Purple K, and Anabolic Prescription. I went from a 225 max bench to 305 bench in about 6 months, and put on about 20lbs in muscle. Now not so much anything, more about watching what I eat and just exercising.



What's your height/weight?


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## KerryBlue

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> What's your height/weight?



I stand 6'5, when I was playing football I was up at 305-310. I'm back down to about 280-85. I'm still working on doing some cutting, but overall I'm pretty healthy and in shape.


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## Eye In The Sky

I'm glad you said *20lbs* and not *20lbs of muscle*.


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## MPHopeful13

You all realize that you just popped into an almost 6 month dead topic as though it had been started yesterday?


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## KerryBlue

MPHopeful13 said:
			
		

> You all realize that you just popped into an almost 6 month dead topic as though it had been started yesterday?



No we didn't, this guy started his own thread yesterday 


			
				petercushing said:
			
		

> Not roids but I take Cellucor C4 really gives me that extra boost of energy needed. I like to drink Red Bull as well.



Then it got merged with this one, most threads on here are reposts then merged by staff to existing threads. But thanks for coming out, way to contribute to the discussion going on.


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## Jarnhamar

MPHopeful13 said:
			
		

> You all realize that you just popped into an almost 6 month dead topic as though it had been started yesterday?



Nice job detective.  More bench presses for you.


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## Eye In The Sky

MPHopeful13 said:
			
		

> You all realize that you just popped into an almost 6 month dead topic as though it had been started yesterday?



And?  No MilPoints for you, Capt Obvious!!


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