# CF Hair Regulations - superthread [MERGED]



## JDG

I‘ll be going away to BOTP in about a week.  I‘m getting to the point where I need a haircut, but if they automatically cut your hair out there for free anyway, I‘m just going to wait.

Kind of a frivolous question, but inquiring minds want to know!  Thanks.


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## 311

As a reservist they expect you to get one on your own time and money. Which I get for something like every Tuesday and that, but it‘s the same even when your at a base and on course. FYI the barber( female      ) is the only place to get your hair cut in Gagetown and she charges $8 , ( even if its just tappering the sides ).


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## Meridian

Yes. You will get a haircut unless you are already at the equivalent of a "zero" haircut. And you pay for it, so you might as well wait.


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## GrahamD

I‘ve been shaving my head with the 1/8" guard every couple weeks for about the last 5 years.  I‘ve been more than happy to not have to pay for haircuts, ever.

  Will they let me bring my clippers to basic training?   Also, is a "zero haircut" just a shave with no guard?  If you showed up with your head already shaved to basic training, would they single you out for being a smarta$$?  Or would they just simply ignore it and not mention it?


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## bbupd

> Also, is a "zero haircut" just a shave with no guard? If you showed up with your head already shaved to basic training, would they single you out for being a smarta$$? Or would they just simply ignore it and not mention it?


Great question, and one I‘ve been meaning to ask... I‘ve been shaving my head for almost 8 yrs now... I can‘t remember the last time I had hair enough I needed shampoo... Should I let it grow and stick with a brush cut? Will I even have time to shave my head at/during basic?


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## 311

On the SQ I was on this summer, a guy had a pair of clippers which we used to shave our head. We were then told by the higher-ups that apparently its against the rules to cut your own hair or have someone other then a professional to do it. SO you can, but be careful eh.


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## Meridian

If you are talking about the Regs in St Jean, you will not be allowed to cut your own hair or the hair of others on course.


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## ProPatria05

I was told that cutting your own hair is a chargeable offence. Don‘t ask me to quote the specific QR&O, if indeed this is true.

I am also leaving for BOTP in about a week and a half. I have be clipping my own hair using a #2 comb for the past 2 years or so -- any monkey can do it (I am proof-positive). I would think, however, that the rule is in place to prevent Bloggins from taking a pair of scissors to his hair to save $10.

I‘ll cut it right before I leave, but while on course I think it would be prudent to leave it to the base barber.


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## Garry

You are now allowed to shave your head. If you show up with a shaved head, you should be allowed to keep it. You are not allowed to shave it every few days, though. It must be billiard ball clean every morning...and this will take several of your precious minutes to perform. Been awhile since I had to worry about basic, but I would imagine mornings are a little "busy"...


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## levi

I don‘t know much about the army but me and a couple friends are interested in finding some things out in a hopeful possibility that we might join one day. I was really curious as to whether they allow girls as infantry soldiers? and if so do they have to cut their hair? and how short?


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## ninty9

As a reserve soldier, you end up having to pay for a haircut yourself.  ON my courses we actually had a MBdr wife come in and do it for us for $5.  She was supposed to be a hair stylist, but she was hardly a stylist.    

Clippers are not allowed and are a chargeable offence.  Cutting you hair must be done by a professional.  Thats just the way it is.  Go ahead and take them and cut everyones hair, just don‘t get caught.

Shaving your head until there is absolutly no hair left is not allowed either and is another chargeable offence if you get sunburnt.  You can buzz it down without a guard on, but don‘t take a razor to your head, thats all.

Its easier to show up already buzzed off.  Then you don‘t have to worry abiout getting it done when the course starts.  Thats how I see it anyway.

Girls can be infantry soldiers.  They do not have to cut their hair.  It just has to be in a bun.  There were actually 2 or 3 girls who shaved their heads on my BMQ and the instructors wanted to charge them for it aparrently.  Not too sure why, but I guess someone wasn‘t happy.


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## radop211tc

Not sure of the QR&O but cutting of someone elses hair and not being a professional, is a chargeable offence for hygeine reasons.
I did know a few guys in RV85 who were qualified to cut other peoples‘ hair,not sure if they were civy qual or if they had taken a mil course.

Tc...
VVV


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## Michael Dorosh

Girls are allowed to serve in the infantry.  Hair must be kept above the collar, but you can have it as long as you want as long as you can pin it up and keep it under your hat (literally).


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## mic911

Just buzzing your hair isn‘t good enough.  It has to be tapered. They‘re strict about that.


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## PTE Gruending

Hello,
could anyone tell me what the regulations on dying your hair in the Army Reserve? I‘ve looked through the CF Dress and Deportment guide and the only thing I can find that comes close is: "Hair should be kept and styled as to not interfer with the wearing of a headress". Other than, its all regs on lengths, etc.
Thanks


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## hoganshero

In my unit I was told that if you coudl find the colour in nature on a human‘s head then you coudl dye that colour. If you couldn‘t find  it then you couldn‘t dye that colour.


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## combat_medic

I‘m not sure what the dress regs state exactly, but it does need to be a colour that occurs in nature. I once had to jack a female recruit who showed up with pink hair; her Sergeant wasn‘t too impressed with that one!


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## Jungle

Ref: A-AD-265-000, Chap 2, sect 2 (CF dress regs)
"Unusual colours, such as green, bright red, orange, purple etc... are not permitted"


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## PTE Gruending

But things like highlighting, streaking, and dying it say - blonde, are OK? The reason I ask, is that there are 3 of us at our unit; two guys with streaked hair, and myself - top dyed blonde, who were told that we would have to talk to the CSM about it. The thing is; all of our dyed hair is not visible with headress on anyways. Not to mention - last year I saw some NCO‘s running around with dyed hair....


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## D-n-A

A new private in my unit came in with the top of his hair dyed blonde

He had to either wash it out, or shave it off


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## Bzzliteyr

Of course, there are rules.. then there are the rules that the individual RSMs get to apply.. but here is the quote from the dress regs minus the female and cultural parts....

"HAIR 

4. Hair on the head shall be neatly groomed
and conservatively styled. The length, bulk or style of
hair shall not detract from a positive military
appearance or preclude the proper wear of military
headdress. (Bulk is the distance that the mass of hair
extends from the skin, when groomed, as opposed to
the length of hair.) In particular, style and colour shall
not present a bizarre, exaggerated, or unusual
appearance. Unusual colours, such as green, bright
red, orange, purple, etc., are not permitted. Hair must
be secured or styled back to reveal the face, and any
accessories used to secure or control hair styles shall
be as unobtrusive as possible. Hair ornaments shall
not be worn, except womenâ€™s conservative barrettes
which blend with the hair colour. Shaving of all of the
hair on the head is permitted. The personal manner
of wearing hair within these general style limits,
including moustaches, beards and braids, shall be
modified to the degree necessary to accommodate
operational or occupational equipment, such as gas,
oxygen and scuba masks, hard, combat and flying
helmets, etc., where a memberâ€™s safety or mission is
put in jeopardy.


5. The following additional details apply to
specific groups to accord with cultural rights and
public perceptions of a disciplined force:

a. Men (see Figure 2-2-1). Hair shall be taper-trimmed
at the back, sides, and above the
ears to blend with the hair-style; be no more
than 15 cm (6 in.) in length and sufficiently
short that, when the hair is groomed and
headdress is removed, no hair shall touch
the ears or fall below the top of the
eyebrows; be no more than 4 cm (1-1/2 in.)
in bulk at the top of the head, gradually
decreasing to blend with the taper-trimmed
sides and back; and be kept free from the
neck to a distance of 2.5 cm (1 in.) above the
shirt collar. Taper trimmed square back
styles and shaving of all the hair on the head
are permitted.

(1) Sideburns. Sideburns shall not extend
below a line horizontally bisecting the
ear, and shall be squared off
horizontally at the bottom edge and
taper-trimmed to conform to the overall
hair style.


(2) Moustaches (see Figure 2-2-2). When
moustaches are worn alone, the
unshaven portion of the face shall not
extend outwards beyond the corners of
the mouth. Moustaches shall be kept
neatly trimmed; not be greater than 2
cm (3/4 in.) in bulk; not extend below
the corners of the mouth, not protrude
beyond the width of the face when fully
extended horizontally and worn in a
waxed, handlebar style."


Hope that helps


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## combat_medic

The key thing to remember about all of this is CONSERVATIVE. One guy in my unit with light brown hair had his hair tipped blonde, and it was fine because it was subtle and not noticeable. I, myself have red highlights in my hair, and no one has even noticed. However, if you have jet black hair and try to get away with bleaching it blonde, think again. It‘s an obvious unnatural combination, and I doubt any self-respecting CSM would let it go. 

Then again, some of the more slack and idle units (no names) allow all sorts of nonsense in terms of hair, outrageous makeup, jewlery etc..


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## Michael Dorosh

The crap about "it‘s under my hat anyway" is particularly funny.  If you go into a civvie restaurant, you take your hat off.  If you go into an Army mess, you take your hat off.  None of which is even remotely the point, anyway. If you are really having trouble understanding why we have standards of dress and deportment, maybe you need to re-evaluate why you joined the Forces in the first place.


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## PTE Gruending

I asked a question on regulations on highlighting/colouring of hair... Mr. Dorosh, guess those of us who dye our hair are inferior, slack and idle soldiers, time for us to turn in out kit since we can‘t understand uniformity...    



> If you are really having trouble understanding why we have standards of dress and deportment, maybe you need to re-evaluate why you joined the Forces in the first place.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

I must agree with PTE Gruending. I always tried to look a little different than the rest so I guess I should re-evaluate the ten years I did?? And to think I was proud of it.


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## Bzzliteyr

Asked my SSM today.. after my other post... He said that hair should not go to extremes, and that‘s all, "conservative" is the word he used.. As for the whole "your hair has to match your ID card" that some people state, then the same thing would apply to people‘s growing of facial hair he said!! If you have a moustache in your ID picture, then by rights, you HAVE to have a moustache!


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## Padraig OCinnead

What I have to say about guys colouring their hair won‘t be liked much, but I‘ll take the slams that will come with it. I think that it‘s okay for my wife to dye her hair. And maybe old ladies should dye their hair too. Fighting soldiers should have more important things than running about with frosted hair. Some MWO‘s must be absolutly eating their berets over this. VVV


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## PTE Gruending

Patraig, well everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so i say "to each his own". And regarding your comments; I think that this is a reserve issue, for the most part, as we are living on civy street as opposed to being full time troops. 

Of course uniformity must be maintained, however there are so many examples of where the rules are bent or broken; females with long hair, mustaches, navy/pioneer beards, wedding rings, makeup for females, religious necklaces, and cultural items (ie: a beard for your religion, etc).


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## greeneyedboy

Where can I find the manual outlining proper hair cuts online . I know there are some on paper but I can‘t get access to it


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## kurokaze

Hmm, I can‘t seem to find it specifically either.  But if you have the reference number here are the links to the QR&Os and CFAOs.

QR&O:
 http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/intro_e.asp 

CFAO:
 http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/intro_e.asp


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## girlfiredup

This doesn‘t go into great detail but does offer some info on hair standards :

 http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_3_3.asp#HairStandards


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## Padraig OCinnead

Pte Grueling,

I liked your response. But I feel a bit different about the reserve/regular issue. Here‘s what I think.
We all serve the same master. I never really thought differently about militia/reserve soldiers/sailor/airmen(women). We all choose this lifestyle knowing that it means giving up many priveledges in order to wear the uniform. In doing this we are better for the choice.

Reserve, Regular it‘s all the same to me.


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## Piper

Re: Pte. Grueling‘s most recent post.

It has been a while since I had the opportunity to review the regulations for dress and deportment (spent the better part of 9 months reading them in the Regimental QMS at the 49th Fd. Regt. RCA) - but I do believe there were provisions for "cultural items" such as the religious beard he believes is a broken rule.

As for moustaches, ‘twas always explained to me while serving that the part of the moustache that was contained within the perimeter of the face and above the lip belonged to the soldier -- anything else belonged to the Army and was theirs to deal with as they pleased.  Hence the sharply pointed and heavily waxed handlebar moustaches that looked like they could pull in a Buffalo TV station on a good day.

Neil


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## pte anthony

Take a .5 inch off the top and make sure the back and sides are tapered into the top the shorter the hair cut the less you will have to worry about cutting it and getting jacked over it.   :soldier:


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## dwild40

Only if you are Native may you have long hair.  I worked on the production crew for the annual Pow Wow at the sky dome last fall and it was cool to see a Sgt and a M/Cpl in dress uniforms with braids down to their waists.


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## CWeb26F

Depends which base you are posted to also- in my experience Air Force bases are a lot more lax when it comes to dress standards.

Also your MOC and rank matter    I remember one doctor (a Major)who we nicknamed Shaggy- he had the most wonderful curly locks halfway down his neck.


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## Franko

Here you go......

*HAIRCUTS MALE PERSONNEL:* HAIR SHALL BE TAPER-TRIMMED AT THE BACK SIDES, AND ABOVE THE EARS TO BLEND WITH THE HAIR-STYLE: BE NO MORE THAN 15 CM (6 INCHES) IN LENGTH AND SUFFICIENTLY SHORT THAT, WHEN THE HAIR IS GROOMED AND HEAD-DRESS IS REMOVED, NO HAIR SHALL TOUCH THE EARS OR FALL BELOW THE TOP OF THE EYEBROWS: BE NO MORE THAN 4 CM (1-1/2 INCHES) IN BULK AT THE TOP OF THE HEAD, GRADUALLY DECREASING TO BLEND WITH THE TAPER-TRIMMED SIDES AND BE KEPT FREE FROM THE NECK TO A DISTANCE OF 2.5 CM (1 INCH) ABOVE THE SHIRT COLLAR. TAPER-TRIMMED SQUARE BACK HAIRCUTS ARE ALLOWED. THE SHAVING OF ALL THE HAIR ON THE HEAD IS PERMITTED

*HAIRSTYLES FEMALE PERSONNEL:* SHALL NOT EXTEND BELOW THE LOWER EDGE OF THE SHIRT COLLAR, EXAGGERATED STYLES, INCLUDING THOSE WITH EXCESSIVE FULLNESS OR EXTREME HEIGHT IS NOT AUTHORIZED. RAIDS, IF WORN, SHALL BE STYLED CONSERVATIVELY AND TIED TIGHTLY, SECURED AT THE END BY A KNOT OR A SMALL UNADORNED FASTENER. A SINGLE BRAID SHALL BE WORN IN THE CENTRE OF THE BACK. DOUBLE BRAIDS SHALL BE WORN BEHIND THE SHOULDERS. HAIR SHALL BE A MAXIMUM LENGTH, WHEN GATHERED BEHIND THE HEAD OR BRAIDED, WHICH DOES NOT EXTEND BELOW THE TIP OF THE ARMPIT. WITH THE PERMISSION OF A COMMANDING OFFICER, A 60-DAY TRANSITION PERIOD MAY BE GRANTED TO A FEMALE MEMBER TO GROW HER HAIR LONGER FOR RE-STYLING, DURING WHICH TIME HAIR MAY EXTEND BELOW THE 
LOWER EDGE OF THE SHIRT COLLAR ALL THE WHILE MAINTAINING A POSITIVE MILITARY APPEARANCE, AND SUBJECT TO THE MEMBER S SAFETY 


If you are lax in your dress standards you are at fault and are chargable under the CoSD. "Shaggy" should have been made an example of by the CO of that unit, or at least sorted out.

Regards


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## Yes Man

> Originally posted by Franko:
> [qb] Here you go......
> 
> *HAIRCUTS MALE PERSONNEL:*BE NO MORE THAN 15 CM (6 INCHES) IN LENGTH [/qb]


What area of your head can you grow to 15cm?  that seems rather long.


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## Franko

Don‘t ask me....my hair cut is always .5 on sides and back with about 1/2 inch on top. 

Long hair hippies if you ask me...more than likely made that long for officers in the Air Force.   

Regards


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## girlfiredup

What about women?  My hair is long and I‘m not getting it cut!  I read the standards are that women can wear their hair in a varying of styles as long as it doesn‘t interfere with the proper wearing of military headdress and that long hair must be worn in a braid but does it have to be off the shoulders or can the piece be left down?


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## chrisf

> Originally posted by GirlFiredUp:
> [qb] What about women?  My hair is long and I‘m not getting it cut!  I read the standards are that women can wear their hair in a varying of styles as long as it doesn‘t interfere with the proper wearing of military headdress and that long hair must be worn in a braid but does it have to be off the shoulders or can the piece be left down? [/qb]


Generally kept in a bun, you can usually get away with having it down assuming it‘s not touching your collar. You‘re also allowed to have it in a braid, you see this a lot less though.


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## SFontaine

Silly question I know   

I know this has been covered before, and I found some prior posts but they didn‘t really help me out with my question.
Anyway my question is this. I‘m going for Reserve BMQ and such in the Summer and I have insane shags hair. Like quite literally I haven‘t had a haircut in over 7 months. Anyway I was wondering should I just wait till Summer and get a haircut at Basic or should I get one on my own time? And if so what kind of haircut should I get? And if they do cut at basic what kind of haircut do they give? 

Anyway thanks


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## Da_man

you hair must be cut when you get there.


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## Jarnhamar

If your a man you‘ll shave your head. Like the romans


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## chrisf

My instructions to my barber every time I go...

No. 3 on top, No. 1 on the back and sides, and taper the back.

That being said, they‘ll tell you how they want your hair cut when you get up there... believe me... they‘ll tell you.


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## Fishbone Jones

"High and Tight" is the way to go.
Seriously, you should be given a handout of the CF dress regs regarding haircuts and facial hair. Stick to them, don‘t try to push the envelope and you‘ll be fine.


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## scm77

You say there‘s regulations about haircuts and facial hair, but what‘s up with this guy?

 http://www.diemaco.com/gallery/dpg-pioneer.jpg


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## Scoobie Newbie

That guy was in pioneer platoon.  May still be but they have disbanded them officially.  Anyway Pioneers were allowed to grow there beards out unless in a chemical environment.  The reasons for this have been speculated upon and I doubt anyone has a definate answer.  If they do I would love to know myself.


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## Korus

Hah, that CPL looks like someone I wouldn‘t want to mess with..   

But back to the origional question, get a haircut before you begin to do anything with the military.

If you‘re going to wait, you may want to try getting your haircut VERY short a couple days before basic, as chances they‘ll do hair inspections, and send you off to get your hair cut if it‘s not ultra short.. All the courses I‘ve been on (Mo), we had to pay for our own haircuts.

Oh, and come in cleanly shaven every day, even if you‘re coming in wearing civilian clothes if you haven‘t been issued your uniform... I‘ve seen new people omit this little task...


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## D-n-A

also, shave in the morning, not the night before

as for hair, be cool like me an shave your head    

0 on the sides, 1/4inch on top


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## corporal-cam

> Originally posted by Just a Sig Op:
> [qb]
> No. 3 on top, No. 1 on the back and sides, and taper the back.
> 
> [/qb]


How short would that make the sides? I‘m trying to find a hair cut that works for cadets but I‘ve been egtting a number 3 all over for my whole life and I have no clue what anything else looks like (change is exciting, and I‘m a boring  guy    )


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## Roger

I found that the cheapest is

A) Shave your head

B) By yourself electric sheers kit, you can get a decent set for around $25.00, it is a conair and it comes with all of the attachments, scizors, combs and so forth, I put on the #1 attachment and cut my own hair. And if my buddies want to use it I charge them a beer or pop.


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## Berry2004

I thought they made everyone shave there heads for basic at St.jean? Is this true, or if yor haircut meets the standards you can keep it?


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## rrr965

In regard‘s to your question Berry the shaving of the heads is a commen stereo type associated with basic training. If your Hair cut is within the guidelines with the cf dress manual then you should be ok but every course is different so don‘t take my word on it. On one of the courses I was on a troop showed up in uniform with hair that was all over the place and over his eyes An ex Airborne and PPCLI sargeant happened to notice this and Pte Bloggins never made that mistake again!!!!!!!


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## Michael OLeary

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/38cbg_arsd/CD/bmq/MLP/po101/101-06(CFDressRegulationsandAppearance).doc



> 4.	Hair:
> 
> a.	shall be taper-trimmed at the back (can be taper-trimmed square back), sides, and above the ears and the shaving of all the hair on the head is permitted;
> 
> b.	be no more than 15 cm (6 inches) in length and sufficiently short that, when the hair is groomed and head-dress is removed, no hair shall touch the ears or fall below the top of the eyebrows ; and
> 
> c.	be no more than 4 cm (1-1/2 inches) in bulk at the top of the head, gradually decreasing to blend with the taper-trimmed sides and be kept free from the neck to a distance of 2.5 cm (1 inch) above the shirt collar.
> 
> 
> 
> 5.	Sideburns:
> 
> a.	shall not extend below a line horizontally bisecting the ear and be squared off in a horizontal line at the bottom edge; and
> 
> b.	shall be of even width and taper-trimmed to conform with overall hair style.
> 
> 
> 6.	Moustaches :
> 
> a.	shall be kept neatly trimmed and not extend below the corners of the mouth ;
> 
> b.	shall not be greater than 2 cm (3/4 inches) in bulk ;
> 
> c.	shall not protrude beyond the width of the face, when fully extended horizontally and worn in a waxed, handlebar style ; and
> 
> d.	be modified in such a fashion as to accommodate the type of operational equipment required, should a member's safety be put in jeopardy.
> 
> 7.	Beards :
> 
> a.	Subject to procedures established by Commanders of Commands, permission to wear a beard shall only be granted to :
> 
> (1)	all ranks who wear the naval uniform, wherever they are serving ;
> 
> (2)	all ranks on strength of an infantry pioneer platoon ;
> 
> (3)	adherents of the Sikh religion ; and
> 
> (4)	personnel, on the direction of a medical officer, subject to medical reassessment at intervals not to exceed 6 months.
> 
> c.	Where the wearing of beard is authorized in accordance with the previously mentioned instructions, the following shall apply :
> 
> (1)	the beard shall be worn with a moustache and kept neatly trimmed, especially at the lower neck and cheekbones ;
> 
> (2)	the beard shall not exceed 2.5 cm (1 inch) in bulk ; and
> 
> (3)	when a member's safety is put in jeopardy, facial hair shall be modified in such a fashion as to accommodate the type of operational equipment required to be worn.


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## D-n-A

Something to add for the hair.

No mohawks or anything like that are allowed.


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## phalen

does the haircut at bmq come out of ur pay?


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## belkin81

They don't have army barbers but they do have a barber shop, which you have to pay 10 dollars I believe for a hair cut. Save yourself some money and shave your head before basic.


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## space_sldr

It says "b.	be no more than 15 cm (6 inches) in length and sufficiently short that" but then it says "c.	be no more than 4 cm (1-1/2 inches) in bulk at the top of the head"...
I don't get it. Can someone give me an example?


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## Gryphon

I suggest going to the barber and asking for a no. 1 or a 0.5 haircut... A lot of instructors on basic do not allow shaved heads..  althought now that i did start shaving my head, i find it to be much easier to maintain


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## Theoat

space_sldr said:
			
		

> It says "b.	be no more than 15 cm (6 inches) in length and sufficiently short that" but then it says "c.	be no more than 4 cm (1-1/2 inches) in bulk at the top of the head"...
> I don't get it. Can someone give me an example?



I would think that would mean that you may have your hair lengh up to 6 inches in lengh, but you can't have it spiked straight up since that would make the bulk too much. So you might have your hair 6 inches long, but have it slicked back, having the overall height/bulk being 1.5 inches. You might also have your hair cut with thinning shears which could cut down on the overall bulk.



			
				Smoothbore said:
			
		

> So I don't have to shave my skull for the BMQ as long as my hair doesn't exceed the imposed limits in length?



Everyone gets a shave at BMQ from what I gather unless you are female, in which case there are different guidlines for overall lengh and appearance.


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## Goldy

I am also confused now. The "rule" book states the 6 inches, 1.5 inches in bulk etc... but I just watched the CFLRS video from the website, and they shave everyone's heads except the girls.

Any clarification would be dandy.

Thanks


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## Michael OLeary

Because it probably went down like this:

Instructors warn recruit platoon that they are being marched to the barbershop that afternoon and anyone with any extra hair will be getting it cut. They probably also get advised that there's a camera crew recording recruit training experiences and their haircutting session will be filmed.

A few over-zealous recruits decide that if they look like a movie soldier, they can then act like one and will obviously be taken for a movie soldier. So, when they get in the chair declare themselves to be in desperate need of the shortest allowable cut.

Instructor smiles and says "go ahead" to the barber.

Barber cuts away.

Director cutting scenes to build CFLRS film reviews a few hours of hair cutting video, and what does he select? Why, he selects the scene that best fits his own hollywood inspired impressions of what hair-cutting at basic training should look like. He picks the scene with a couple guys getting close cropped heads. But that doesn't make it the required standard for haircuts.


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## Bert

On my course, you could get your hair cut anyway you wanted as long as it is within the military hair-cut specifications.  I believe the specifications posted
earlier in the thread are accurate.  Some guys prefer shorter hair (like a 0 or a 1 clip) others preferred longer on top.

In BMQ, the staff repeats many times that everyone is the same.  We dress the same, behave the same, eat at the same time, march the same,
get disiplined the same.  During the second week of BMQ, our course had to get in-spec hair-cuts.  One section decided to get their hair cut using
a 0 clip.  Being in the BMQ mode, everyone in all sections got excited and decided to be the same and asked for the same short hair-cut.  It
was kind of the beginnings of platoon teamwork.  

In the Farnham field exercises, I appreciated a short hair-cut due to the rarity of baths or showers.  It was a winter BMQ so we worn our touques
alot.  Most body heat is lost thru the head so a short hair-cut in the heat of summer might not be a bad idea.  Its grows back anyway.


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## willy

For the record, regardless of the official dress regulations, I would not recommend showing up at basic training with six inches of hair.  Nor would I recommend having six inches of hair as a male at any time, even after basic.  I have long hair for someone in the army, and mine's typically about 2 inches long, at the absolute most.  (And when it gets that long, I REALLY need a haircut).  Unless things have changed since I did basic, your instructors are going to make you get a #3 every two weeks or so, and they aren't going to take "no" for an answer on that one.  

Don't worry, it grows back.


----------



## Garbageman

Goldy said:
			
		

> I am also confused now. The "rule" book states the 6 inches, 1.5 inches in bulk etc... but I just watched the CFLRS video from the website, and they shave everyone's heads except the girls.


When I went through St. Jean, the whole platoon lined up and we all filed into the barber one by one.  Even guys who had regulation cuts, and even those who had it shaved down to the nub (not recommend - you'll get a sunburn on your skull when you're doing PT without headress!).  Essentially, our Sgt's thinking was of the team mentality (i.e. if one guy does something, everyone does it the same way).  We were even ordered to grow sideburns (to the regulation length of course) because a couple of guys had them, so, therefore, we should all have them.  My advice; get used to that kind of thinking, and be prepared to shell out the 10 smacks even if you've already got your hair cut.


----------



## D-n-A

If you want to be all hardcore, get a high an tight, 0 on the sides 1/4 inch on top.


----------



## Redeye

Baskin said:
			
		

> is a shaved head better? or a little on the top? does it really make much of a difference?



Shaved heads are no good.  You'll get sunburnt in no time.  Get a nice short, neat haircut and that's all you really need to worry about.


----------



## Yes Man

Why are there different regulations for hair styles between men and women?  It can't have any practical reasons if they let one sex have long hair and the other not.


----------



## Michael OLeary

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/38cbg_arsd/CD/bmq/MLP/po101/101-06(CFDressRegulationsandAppearance).doc



> FEMALE
> 
> 9.	HAIR:
> 
> a.	Hair shall not extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar.
> 
> b.	Braids, if worn, shall be styled conservatively and tied tightly, secured at the end by a knot or a small unadorned fastener.   Single braid shall be worn in the center of the back and double braids behind the shoulder.
> 
> c.	Hair shall be a maximum length, when gather behind the head or braided, which does not extend below the top of the armpit.


----------



## Garbageman

maggie said:
			
		

> thanks for the info.,and good to hear that i don't have to cut it real short..contrary to a smartbutts input into the subject...lol
> i don't think i'd look as cute as the guys in a shaved head!!!


Many females do decide to cut it short anyway, at least while on BMQ.  Not necessarily a close buzz like the males, but shorter - a lot easier to maintain, particularly in the field.


----------



## yot

haha... ya I agree that too. Short hair is alot easier to maintain... you don't need much time to try after showering. I want to shave my skull, but I can't do that in reserve... (also my mom disagrees with that)


----------



## Infanteer

I think there are more important things for you recruits to be preparing for than how to cut your hair....


----------



## 1feral1

I shave my head Sundays and Wednesdays, and every 2nd day when we are bush. The secret is proper sun screen, and ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS wear a hat, and drink plenty of water daily (well over 6-8L/per day here no worries). I rarely get a sunburn, and if I do, its on civvy time, not military.

The Australian sun is a shocker, and it can turn a  black t-shirt grey in no time if left outside. One of every two Aussies will develop skin cancer during their lives.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## McInnes

Females can also be granted a "transision period" for their hair style. I believe this period is 6 months.


----------



## drebk

Yah, As an African Canadian, my hair is just generally short, it gets scraggaly if i don't cut it every...oh...say 6months =P, but i shaved it pretty short, i leave for summer BMQ in 11 days, I'll probably cut it myself again before then, nothing drastic, just the same height all the way around, if they want to cut my hair on course let them have at it, but i'll die before i pay 10 bux for something i can do for free and in under 10minutes myself... or at least, that's what i'll be thinking to myself as i shell out the cash! =P


----------



## Tebo

If you have outrageously long hair and can take some heat I suggest holding out for as long as possible.   Nothing will entertain the platoon or give the Sgts and MCpls more pleasure than seeing some 4lbs of hair buzzed off.   My personal favorite was one guy who had been cultivating a giant mushroom cut for some four years.   One run of the razor down the middle part and it was all over.

London Drugs and $30 - $40 will produce a platoon razor and a backup career in hairstyling for one or two lucky members.

Good luck.


----------



## 1feral1

Kurbo: 

Yip at 45C in the shade and 95% humidity, you would be suprised how much water one requires especially if one is doing a bit of hard yakka (work). Noramally a soldier here carriers at least 4 litres ( two 1 litre water bottles on webbing and a 2L one on his pack, plus sometimes another 2 or more 1L waterbottles on his pack too. Many now are camelbaking it, like me.

Our GMV 6 x6 LR carrys 100 litres of water in 5 20 litre jerries, and only two 20 litre diesle jerries. The crew of the GMV is three, and we get more fresh water daily too.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## chrisf

Six pack said:
			
		

> Yes Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are there different regulations for hair styles between men and women?   It can't have any practical reasons if they let one sex have long hair and the other not.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i agree... i'm a woman and i personally would love to have one regulation for all of us... then i wouldn't have to worry about it
Click to expand...


After thinking about it briefly, why can't you?  If you decided to shave your head, or get any sort of masculine hair cut, I really can't see anyone saying you can't.

I don't remember the exact wording, but the rough idea of the female dress regs is that the hair either needs to be worn in a bun, a single braid, or short enough that it's off your collar and doesn't interfere with the wearing of your headress.

If you shave your head, your hair is clearly too short for a bun or a braid, and clearly won't touch your collar.


----------



## brin11

> After thinking about it briefly, why can't you?



Just a word of warning here..while in Wainwright the females were not allowed to shave their head or cut their hair as short as the men.  Now, times may have changed but there was, at one point, something ridiculous about women being feminine looking.  

Anyway, if I were you I would get my hair cut short when you *get there * simply to check out what they want during your training.

Best of luck to all.


----------



## jonsey

For those who get their hair cut short (e.g. high-and-tight, or simmilar, done with the electric clippers), do you have your own set of clippers and do iit yourself, or do you have a barber do it? 

I get my hair cut short as often as I can afford (maximum of 2 months between cuts), and I usually get a 5 on top, 3 on sides with the electric clippers. However, I don't know of any barber shop in my area, and the "salons" that I end up going to  charge $15+ for it. I was just wondering if it would be worth it to get a decent set of clippers and doing it myself, or if I should just search for a decent place that doesn't charge a lot?


----------



## Bert

If you're referring to the military and to BMQ, the official response you'll get is that you are not allowed to do it yourself and the barber has to
do it for you while in BMQ.  $8 plus tip per pop. Part of it is that its done as a platoon and a cut per specifications.  After BMQ, if you can do it 
yourself correctly, then whos to know.  My girlfriend does mine.


----------



## Korus

> London Drugs and $30 - $40 will produce a platoon razor and a backup career in hairstyling for one or two lucky members.



Just don't get caught. In my experience, Barrack haircuts are not allowed on BMQ and SQ.


----------



## space_sldr

Aquilus Lupin said:
			
		

> Females can also be granted a "transision period" for their hair style. I believe this period is 6 months.



Does this apply to the males too?


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

No. Why would it? The 'transition period' is for females to grow their hair long enough so it can be tied back into a bun, but is still technically below the collar.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I saw a lot of soldiers without mags in their weapons. A few times we mentioned it to people and they would say "Ya i know". or "Won't get an ND this way right? har har"

It's hard to place a finger on it exactly but in the last few years it seems like the dress regs for female hair has got lax. I dunno i just see more and more female soldiers with untidy hair. This summer when visiting friends in petawawa i saw a girl with what looked like dreadlocks that were black and pink.  Another soldier was in the mess with a really sloppy pony tail. I remember seeing a soldier who had pig tails at the back of her head and slowly over the week excersise they moved more and more forward. It was a big joke with her and some of her section buddies but no one seemed to care enough to tell her to fix it.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Yes, females are allowed to have ponytails touching their collars now.  Looks like shit.  I wrote a rocket to the editor of The Maple Leaf to complain that a Navy LS on the cover had a ponytail hanging down - and she was working on machinery at the time!  He wrote back to say he got a lot of similar letters, but the regs now apparently allow it.


----------



## beach_bum

Well, these people must have different dress regs than we have.  I wonder where I can get a copy of those ones?     LOL
I have never seen anything saying that ponytails were okay.  I know that you can wear braids, either a single or two down the back, but they can't be longer than your armpit.  
When it comes to colouring your hair, you are only allowed to dye it a NATURAL colour.  I have seen girls with odd colours as well....and with sloppy hair.  This is not allowed.  :  However, no one seems to stop them.  The story I keep hearing when we have conversations about it, is that people are so afraid of being charged with harrassment if they jack a girl up for the hair do.  I just say....if a guy had hair that didn't meet the standard....wouldn't you say something?   :  Crazy.


----------



## ackland

Well I guess maybe things haven't digressed out there as bad as in ontario. I was speaking with my RSM the other day and he told me that females were allowed to have those CORN ROLLS the tight multy braids that sit agains the scull. Like some rapper or some thing. 

I want to find an electronic copy if some one knows were to get it.


----------



## kmcc

This is a topic I've been worrying about. I shaved my head a couple of months ago for charity and donated my hair to locks of love. I want to have to long again but by next summer( hopefully when I'll be going to BMQ) it may not be long enough for all of it to go into a ponytail. at least not a neat one, I'd need 20 bobbypins. I would also have to wear it at the base of my skull because I have really thick hair and it falls down when it's up to high. Will it really hurt me because I cant control my hair?

p.s: if you know anyone planing to cut/shave there hair and its over 10'' please please mention Locks of love to them. its a great charity. It makes wigs for kids that have lost there hair due to cancer and other illnesses. Oh and do any of you think that people would shave there heads for charity?? is there anything like that going on in bases now? I'd like to try and do one for cancer research when I get posted somewhere....or am I just being dumb???  :

Kmcc


----------



## PteCamp

TR
I have an electronic copy of tha hair regs for females, if you pm me with your e-mail address I will be happy to forward it to you. My unit sent it out to all the females.
KaT


----------



## CdnGalaGal

I am with TR on this one.

Relaxing the standard on certain dress regulations for men AND FOR WOMEN (ie hair and earrings) would IMHO certainly degrade the traditional, clean-cut image that is (hopefully) portayed to the Canadian public about the CF.

I'm all for having certain exceptions in dress regs to a point. A guy whose skin is irritated by shaving can grow a beard, Natives with the right to wear a braid, turbans... that's fine. A woman whose bun, single braid, or short hair is kept orderly certainly protrays a cleancut image. 

Not to bash other militaries, but one I can think of in particular (Slovakian) seems to me to have no dress regs, or very lax ones, and looks very sloppy to me. I've seen some guys in uniform with goatees, earrings, long sideburns, etc... Of course, they seem to be the exception and not the rule - there are many very clean-cut Slovakian guys out there too... 

Anyway, standards of dress for men and for women are not "equal" for a reason. Too many allowances leads to a rag-tag look that is unacceptable for a professional armed forces.

Anyway, must cut this short. My relief is here...


----------



## FastEddy

CJ said:
			
		

> I am with TR on this one.
> 
> Relaxing the standard on certain dress regulations for men AND FOR WOMEN (ie hair and earrings) would IMHO certainly degrade the traditional, clean-cut image that is (hopefully) portayed to the Canadian public about the CF.
> 
> I'm all for having certain exceptions in dress regs to a point. A guy whose skin is irritated by shaving can grow a beard, Natives with the right to wear a braid, turbans... that's fine. A woman whose bun, single braid, or short hair is kept orderly certainly protrays a cleancut image.
> 
> Not to bash other militaries, but one I can think of in particular (Slovakian) seems to me to have no dress regs, or very lax ones, and looks very sloppy to me. I've seen some guys in uniform with goatees, earrings, long sideburns, etc... Of course, they seem to be the exception and not the rule - there are many very clean-cut Slovakian guys out there too...
> 
> Anyway, standards of dress for men and for women are not "equal" for a reason. Too many allowances leads to a rag-tag look that is unacceptable for a professional armed forces.
> 
> Anyway, must cut this short. My relief is here...




I think we are not correctly reading "Elizabeth's" point of contension, she is not advocating that Male members of the CF's be allowed to wear ear rings or long hair, but Reg's should read uniformly for both Genders .

That no Special allowances be made concerning PC, social, cosmetic or any other perks for Female members of the CF's. With the exception of any Physical or Biological conditions that might influence her performance .health or duties.

And while you Gentlemen are on the subeject of PC, Turbans, Beards and all that other nice stuff, I'd like to hear your views on CF's Female members of the Muslim faith who might advocate that they be allowed to wear Head Scarves???.


----------



## Inch

Head scarves? I don't know about that.  The common theme within the permissions granted with respect to dress and appearance is that no matter what people wear or how they cut their hair, it all has to be compatible with mission equipment.  IE, you'd be hard pressed to find a guy wearing a turban in a high chemical threat environment since a gas mask won't fit properly over a turban, and no, you don't have time to take the turban off to don your gas mask. The same goes for Kevlar and flying helmets.  For aircrew, no beards since it doesn't work well with the oxygen masks that everybody has with the exception of the rotary community. A good friend of mine that I met in Moose Jaw is a Sikh, he doesn't wear a turban and he cuts his hair short since that stuff won't work with a flying helmet and oxygen mask. 

I'm all for people expressing their religions and being a woman, but if it causes problems with wearing mission critical kit, their rights take a back seat to their own and everyone else's safety.

Cheers


----------



## pbi

I cut my hair short. Very short. I like it that way, and I think soldiers look best that way.

But, Elizabeth has raised a very interesting point. If we say that the purpose in having hair regulations is to ensure hygiene and sanitation in the field, and uniformity in garrison, fine. But why do we then turn around and torpedo this rationale by establishig that it is OK for women and others to have different hair lengths?

Either the supporting arguments are valid, or they aren't. If they aren't, it is only a matter of time before we face a court challenge (as we did over obesity and as we feared over PT standards) over hair regulations, which may result in us not being able to enforce any standard at all. Either soldiers need short hair, or they don't. Gender, religion, etc. IMHO  have nothing to do with it.

On the issue of Sikh headdress, I discussed this yesterday with one of the Pakistani LOs that is here. He told me that in their army (and the Indian Army) Sikhs  accept that they cannot wear turbans all the time. If wearing a helmet, respirator, flight suit, firefighter's gear, etc. they wear a very small cloth device like a tiny skull cap. The only time they wear the full turban is in parade dress. They also accept that beards may have to be trimmed to wear respirators, etc. He is a Muslim and pointed out that Islam is also prepared to make certain allownces for military requirements, such as adjusting prayer timings, dress, etc. Hmmm.

Cheers.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

There is also the reality of recruiting and retention, and especially in the Reserves, asking females to cut their hair short would be a step in the wrong direction.  Is this not self-evident?

Allowing long hair on males would create similar morale problems...


----------



## pbi

Micheal: I'm quite obviously in favour of haircuts (and I'm living in Haircut Central right now....) but I'm pointng out an inherent flaw that has often made me wonder how long it will be before somebody calls us on it.

In my opinion, the real value of the haircut is not hygiene at all, but the act of making a physical change to your appearance in order to join a particular group. Sounds like an opinion sociologists and anthropologist would like to pick apart, but there you are. Cheers.


----------



## RatCatcher

The original reason for soldiers have short hair was indeed hygiene.  It made de-lousing quite a bit easier for the precurser of my trade who were responsible for the de-lousing section. Obviously time and hygien levels have changed but there still is a hygiene reason for the short hair (ie one troop gets lice... the rest probably will too).  However with the changing times the har cut has come to be a distinguishing feature of a soldier, during the 80s hair band period you could always tell who was a soldier...


----------



## Hansol

Heres my two cents:

The Roman Legions cut their hair because (at least one of the best explanations I have heard) (1) the enemy you were fighting could not grab a handful of your hair, rip your head back, and slit your throat, and (2) It is way easier to keep clean.

Also, the way i figure it, if you want to become part of an organization, then you should conform to ITS standards, not the other way around. Scream all you want about headscarves, Burkas, turbans, or crosses, but if you want in, then cowboy up and meet the standards. If not, doom on you. Go play in utopia land.

Cheers, Cameron


----------



## Jarnhamar

A while ago a Sikh tried to join my old unit.  HE was removed from the recruit course because he refused to take off his turban during gas drills (Putting on your gas mask). It's unfortinuate to lose him as a recruit but i'm glad the army put their foot down and didn't bend the rules even though the big bad H word was apparently being used.

Regarding hair regs. I don't think saying "Well just because a girl gets to have an earing guys should too!"  That makes sense on some level of equality and I don't really have an argument against it but still. I just hate that whole "Well they did it so can we" because that leads to bad practices.  "That course doesn't have to do (whatever) why do we have to". Once you start on that mentality it's hard to stop. "they look like shit and get away with it, why can't we"

I don't always agree with the dress regs but thats just my little opinion. I think dropping the dress regs to a point where we look like slobs is ridiculas.  
Pride isn't a bad thing. Theres nothing wrong with looking professional, and good.  The soldiers from other countries with big ear rings and goatees or scruffy faces with long hair and filthy boots while in uniform look like slobs.

When i see a fellow soldier looking like a slob I get embarassed and I don't want to be seen near them. Guy or girl.  I don't want to imagine what the public thinks of them, we all know how under the microscope the CF is.  i think a big deal about being a soldier is looking the part and that doesn't include hair down to your feet lip and eye brow rings or blue and green hair.


----------



## pbi

Michael:



> There is also the reality of recruiting and retention, and especially in the Reserves, asking females to cut their hair short would be a step in the wrong direction.  Is this not self-evident?
> 
> Allowing long hair on males would create similar morale problems...



Because, at the present time, under the present idea of how women want to look, most women don't want to cut their hair that short, right? So, our hair regulations should reflect what is fashionable? What will we do when, inevitably, men's hair styles get longer again (and, BTW, take a look outside-it's happening amongst some high school kids already...) I say there is a slippery slope out there, and in this increasingly litigious country in which we serve, it may only be a matter of time. Cheers.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

pbi said:
			
		

> Michael:
> 
> 
> 
> Because, at the present time, under the present idea of how women want to look, most women don't want to cut their hair that short, right? So, our hair regulations should reflect what is fashionable? What will we do when, inevitably, men's hair styles get longer again (and, BTW, take a look outside-it's happening amongst some high school kids already...) I say there is a slippery slope out there, and in this increasingly litigious country in which we serve, it may only be a matter of time. Cheers.



Let them sue.  The hair regs have not changed for men or women since before WW II, so we can still claim tradition.  Though I've seen some pretty big sideburns on 1970s photos.


----------



## pbi

Yes: I can recall the "thumb tack head" look in the early 80's: sides cut short to meet inspection, top left long and floppy. It was ridiculous. As well, I can recall CSMs screeching death and destruction for anybody who shaved their heads. 

Today, probably because of our increased involvement in ops, it seems that our soldiers have embraced short hair with a passion. Great, I say. Anyway: my gut feeling is in agreement with you: bring 'em on, because to me the real issue is a military cultural one. I only wanted to voice a long-held concern. Cheers.


----------



## NMPeters

It's not exactly true that the hair regs have not changed since WW II. They have for women. It used to be that women's hair was either put up or it had to be short enough that it did not reach the bottom of the collar. It also used to be that any hair clips used could not be shown. That has changed. I don't know exactly what it is, but I do recall the length of hair being changed to something longer for those women who are growing their hair out and your hair clips can now show so long as they match the colour of your hair. I think there is now also something obscure about braids. Now I have to admit, for most of my life, I've been cutting my hair down to the wood. If it started to even touch my ears I would panic and be into the salon for a cut. I have in the last few months decided that for the first time since I was 11 or 12 to grow my hair out a bit and try something "girly". I figured that I'm at the end of my career and if I really don't like it then I can always go back to the short short hair I'm so fond of. And I have to admit, that the new regulations for those growing hair makes sense. Since it takes a while for hair to grow, trying to put up all those different lengths is not only difficult, but looks like a complete dog's breakfast with pins and pieces of hair sticking out all over the place. Oh, and to top it off, Someone has decided to give me girlie curls as well, which I never knew I had  : How the hell am I suppose to tame that? Pretty sad state when a 41 year-old woman has no clue as to how to put hair up.

But I do think pbi is right. It's only time before this issue is before the courts. But if you're going to get into the different hair standards for men and women, then you have to also acknowledge the different dress standards between men and women. Why are we allowed the choice between the slacks and skirts for the CF or mess kit uniform? Why are we allowed the choice to wear the issued shoes or black pumps if we so desire? It used to be a uniform for men and women was the same pattern, just cut a size smaller for the women. It took years of convincing the uniform gods that women are different, our shapes are different, we look different, in order for them to actually come up with a pattern that is somewhat comfortable for us to wear. Now we want to say we're not different? We don't look different? We shouldn't have different dress or hair standards? And what about the Defence Women's Advisory Group that advises and reports on how developing and ongoing policies affect women. Should we eliminate that? Or the gender integration advisory committee? Do we only pull out the "we are women" card only at certain moments when it suits us? We are either different, or we're not. I have my own very personal and passionate views on these subjects. Just playing devil's advocate here.


----------



## beach_bum

The new DEU jacket is the same as the mens with the pockets, only they are tailored differently as they should be.  I am not built like a man, therefore, my clothes should not be tailored like mens.  As to the hair, well, I have had both long and short hair in my time in the military.  When it's long, I wear it up in a bun.  When it is short, I keep it tidy.  That is the way it should be.  When I am outside of work, I like to be able to "do" my hair and look girly.     Being treated the same as a man does not mean I am one.  Men and women are different.  That's life.


----------



## Inch

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> No no, you know - the bob cut - sort of a collar length cut that just kinda hangs there.
> 
> Here's an example (a bad one):   http://www.altaspa.net/styles/nustyles/images/bobcut3.jpg
> 
> Sloppy sloppy sloppy - too long. One standard, dammit! ONE STANDARD!!!     :crybaby:
> 
> Although I'd gladly sacrifice the "one standard" in dress/appearance for a single standard applied on physical fitness regulations. I mean, c'mon, 9 push-ups? I'm all for a modern integrated military but everyone should have to meet the same level across the board.



One standard? This isn't Nazi Germany man, why would we have standards that are at the opposite end of what the society we defend will accept? Sure there are some differences between Joe Civvie and Johnny Military, but for the most part we reflect society with all our standards.  Since you want one standard for hair, why not go back to the days when you couldn't get married without your CO's permission? Heaven forbid the quota was filled for the certain amount of men that could be married.  That would solve the problem of women wanting lady-like haircuts since they wouldn't be allowed to marry and wouldn't need to find a husband.  I think that's a very professional looking haircut and I don't see anything wrong with it. 

As for the fitness standards, I agree to some extent. What about how the standards change when you're over 35?

Just my $0.02

Cheers


----------



## Hansol

hehehe hey all,

Right now i have hair that comes down past my eyes. bout 5 inches maybe. I am just wondering whether I should NOT cut it before St Jean, as to give everyone present a good laugh? I think that would be great fun for everyone, myself included. And will it indeed produce a laugh, or will having hair like that create a bad impression with the Sgts and MCpls right off the bat? cheers -Cameron


----------



## qor556

Yea, the physical fitness test for women was such a joke. 9 push ups and 15 sit ups along with the step test (performed at a slower speed) and the grip test. I understand the Canadian military is trying to encourage more women to join but these standards are much too low. During your courses you are expected to do the exact same amount of push ups/sit ups as everyone else so why have such a double-standard? Out on the field, a soldier is a soldier and it should not be any way else.

As for hair regs, it seems it all depends on the unit. You can't go wrong with a _neat _ bun (they were very particular about this on course) and as for colour, I've dyed my hair a couple times and have not heard any complaints (a few jokes tho), as log as you keep it a natural colour although highlights are not acceptable. And as for dyeing your hair and saying "oh the beret covers it", obviously it tends to come off eg. when entering the mess, unless you choose not to take it off, but thats when you are obligated to buy rounds... ^-^


----------



## combat_medic

As far as the physical fitness standard, I had a guy on my basic who was 51, and his standard for the physical was lower than that of any of the girls on course, and yet nobody ever complains about this "double standard". People excuse the fact that even men typically get less fit as they age, and allow them an easier go on the physical, and yet when a woman, who will have a physically harder time anyway, is given a different standard, it's "favouritism". Either you support a single standard across the board for members of all ages, genders etc., or you accept the different standards based on certain mitigating circumstances..


----------



## George Wallace

combat_medic said:
			
		

> As far as the physical fitness standard, I had a guy on my basic who was 51, and his standard for the physical was lower than that of any of the girls on course,



Could you post those standards?

I am 51 and the standards I am expected to meet are still higher than a woman half my age.  It really rots my socks off when I do a test and have some fat female nurse, a lot younger than me, do a lot less and a lot slower than me, receive a score two or three times better than mine.

GW


----------



## brin11

CF MINIMUM PHYSICAL FITNESS STANDARDS

 Males under 34 Years

Step Test (ml/kg/min)      39
20 M Shuttle Run                   6
(stage completed)                
Handgrip                                  75
Situps                                        19
Pushups                                    19

Females under 34 Years

Step Test                               32
20 M Shuttle Run                   4
Handgrip                                  50
Situps                                        15
Pushups                                       9

Males over 34 Years

Step Test                                 35
20 M Shuttle Run                     5
Handgrip                                    73
Situps                                          17
Pushups                                     14

Females over 34 Years

Step Test                                 30
20 M Shuttle Run                     3
Handgrip                                    48
Situps                                          12
Pushups                                        7

They also mention the following:

CF personnel between the ages of 40-49 years must score a minimum of 6 points on the (CPAFLA) Healthy Physical Activity Participation Questionnaire in order to attempt the 20 MSR. 
CF personnel who are 50 years of age and older must score a minimum of 9 points on the (CPAFLA) Healthy Physical Activity Participation Questionnaire in order to attempt the 20 MSR.    

What exactly is this questionnaire and what happens if you fail to qualify to take the fitness test?   Are you put on medical category?

The above info was taken from the following link:

http://www.psphalifax.ns.ca/FleetFitness/expres.asp#EXPRES%2020MSR


----------



## combat_medic

Take a look here: http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/incentive.shtml

It shows that incentive exempt status is level 5.5 for men over 50, and 6 for women under 16. And according to the list, there are 10 different standards for all the different age and gender categories.


----------



## brin11

Too bad there aren't PERIs around anymore to give us the definitive answer.   Oh ya, we got rid of them...    

I haven't done any type of physical standards testing since leaving the reg force in 1991.   I noticed that the physical tests were supposed to be administered to all CF personnel; I guess the reserves don't count.   Under what circumstances are reserve force members tested for a physical fitness standard?   Obviously, we do very little fitness training on "paid" time (as I read in another thread) but do we or do we not have to maintain a tested standard?

I realize I'm hijacking this thread but I really would like to know.     GW, I don't blame you for your "rotten socks", I agree.   I think we've discussed here before about the possibility of having physical standards for trades or positions.   There certainly is for some such as Firefighter and SAR tech.   Obviously there needs to be a minimum physical standard for all personnel but what about increased   standards depending on your job rather than your gender or age?


----------



## ackland

brin11 said:
			
		

> Too bad there aren't PERIs around anymore to give us the definitive answer.   Oh ya, we got rid of them...
> 
> Under what circumstances are reserve force members tested for a physical fitness standard?   Obviously, we do very little fitness training on "paid" time (as I read in another thread) but do we or do we not have to maintain a tested standard?



Here in LFCA we administer the Express test to all those going on Leadership courses and all new recruits. As for regular class A soldiers there is very little time to incorperate prep for a BFT so it now has slipped away from the priorities. Too bad


----------



## George Wallace

combat_medic said:
			
		

> Take a look here: http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/incentive.shtml
> 
> It shows that incentive exempt status is level 5.5 for men over 50, and 6 for women under 16. And according to the list, there are 10 different standards for all the different age and gender categories.



So if I read that right; a 50 year old man is still expected to score higher than a 17 year old girl?

It has been a long time since I have done an Express test.  We have to do the BFT annually (No matter what PSP may say).  We also have monthly tests of 2 mile run, push ups, and situps; all scored by sex and age.

GW


----------



## Bushman

Redeye said:
			
		

> Shaved heads are no good.   You'll get sunburnt in no time.   Get a nice short, neat haircut and that's all you really need to worry about.



hmmm...what about us guys that shave our heads with straight razors every day and have done so for the last 12 years? if i grow my hair i get hair ont he sides but not the top.... LOL!!!!    do we have to grow our hair? even with hair too i get sunburned (very fair skin). can we wear sunscreen or an issued hat??   :-\


----------



## QORvanweert

Bushman said:
			
		

> hmmm...what about us guys that shave our heads with straight razors every day and have done so for the last 12 years? if i grow my hair i get hair ont he sides but not the top.... LOL!!!!      do we have to grow our hair? even with hair too i get sunburned (very fair skin). can we wear sunscreen or an issued hat??     :-\



 I started shaving my head this summer and have been doing so once a week since. one day I decided to use my manly charms and go sailing with a female prospect. well, 5 hours later I had turtled the boat 7+ times (jousting in Sunfish is AwEsOmE) and I had an absolutely horrible sunburn. the stupid thing hurt and peeled for the next 15 days. and then I tried to oil it and it became crispy. so, if you are doing a summer BMQ then leave enough on not to get a burn. take my word for it, you cannot sleep with a sunburn.....


----------



## Gryphon

The thing that you have to do when you shave your head, is to let it gradually get used to the sun... I started shaving my head in the middle of my 5s, and I never had any problems.. I always had a bottle of sunscreen with me, and everytime i felt my scalp over heat, more suncreen got lathered on.


----------



## Gryphon

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Actually, completely shaving your head is a chargeable offence. Sunburns on your scalp can be extremely harmful.



I thought that too, but apperantly it's not an issue anymore... i'm seeing more and more cueballs on base


----------



## Redeye

It was made "ok" by a CANFORGEN in 2001 - which came out just days before a bunch of folks I was on course with got the bright idea to shave their heads.  The WO went to see if he could get them all charged only to find out they were technically okay.


----------



## TerrellMott

I read this through and someone asked the question I was wondering but I didn't see any response(sorry if there was one).

Are we allowed mohawks if we keep them short and whatnot?

I've had a mowhawk for over 5 years and I'd be sad to see it go now. I would shave it if need be but I'd rather not.


----------



## chrisf

Here's a thought.... if we're allowed to dye our hair a natural colour, can it be multiple natural colours? I know people generally get away with highlights and such... what if I were to have a smiley face dyed into my hair using black and blonde dye? Hmmm... anyone care to help start a fund to pay somone to do this?


----------



## Inch

TerrellMott said:
			
		

> I read this through and someone asked the question I was wondering but I didn't see any response(sorry if there was one).
> 
> Are we allowed mohawks if we keep them short and whatnot?
> 
> I've had a mowhawk for over 5 years and I'd be sad to see it go now. I would shave it if need be but I'd rather not.



Absolutely not. We're professionals and professionals don't have mohawks, period. Ever seen a cop with a mowhawk? Didn't think so.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

That would probably have been the 101st Airborne. Some background below, taken from:

http://diary.gearboxsoftware.com/index.php?p=archive&e=4

Q7: Asked by jman71 

Mohawks: Why did Airborne troops have them, about how many did it, was it based on squad, platoon, or company, or was it just a few guys doing it for fun. I think this is kind of funny, I can't imagine a G.I. with a Mohawk. 

Answer 

Mohawks! Super question!! The photo you may have seen of 101st Airborne paratroopers with Mohawk haircuts was a special group - and only a single 12 man squad of paratroopers from the 101st Airborne, who called themselves the Filthy 13 - and they answer why is attitude. This squad was notorious in the 101st Airborne for hard fighting and reckless courage. The spirit of the Filthy 13 was sparked by a paratrooper named Jake McNiece, a half Native American man from Oklahoma who was reportedly the toughest man in the squad. The squad were immortalized on D-Day by a Stars and Stripes photographer who filmed them placing war paint on their faces. The Filthy 13 fought all the way through until the end of the war, although with heavy casualties. A total of 30 soldiers passed through the squad to replace those killed or wounded in combat. 

I would say it's become a Unit tradition. Perhaps Matt, Pappy, Old Guy or Sherwood could fill us in. Maybe it's not their Corps, but would probably know more than us.


----------



## pbi

> Look at the British military... lots of longer hair there!



Really? When I visit the BritFor camp here in Kabul, the only long hair I see is on females or on officers. The NCOs and men usually have VERY short hair. I think you may be confusing the rather sloppy "stylish" practices of some British officers (esp Cavalry...) with what their soldiers in general do.

I agree that short hair alone does not make a soldier-the Cold War Soviet Army usually shaved its troops heads, and IMHO they were some of the worst troops that ever served anywhere, and the Russian army appears to be no better. The US, for example, frowns on moustaches whereas we are very proud of them and would never say they are "unmilitary". It is more about the attitude that goes with it. I tend to think, though, that a soldier in our Army today who intentionally keep his hair as long as he can likely has an attitude problem---("likely", I said).  I like my hair very short-I get a Number One cut at the barber-so I am a bit prejudiced.

Cheers


----------



## copecowboy

I was wondering if I should have my hair cut before I go to BMQ, or can I get it done there, I leave in 2 days so it would be good to know.


----------



## big bad john

Regardless, you will get a haircut when you arrive.


----------



## arctictern

Yeah, you'll want to let them cut your hair because if it's not done right you'll hear about it... Not a good way to start basic.


----------



## TheCheez

If you're going to St Jean let them do it.

There's some kind of contract with the barber there and kicking up a fuss over the $40 you'll spend on hair cuts while you're there is NOT WORTH IT. Just be a sheep and pay the $8 every couple weeks regardless if you think you need it or own your own clippers or whatever, just play along.


----------



## bojangles

Do they completely buzz it all off?


----------



## BDTyre

What if you shave off all your hair before BMQ?


----------



## phalen

haircuts are $8.50 now 
and the longest u can get is a 2.
some staff let you grow the hair on top, some don't.
my course had to get all 1s


----------



## Big Foot

casus, when did they change it so the longest you could get was a 2? any idea? guys from my platoon used to go in and just get trimmed around the ears and off the collar, not touching the rest of the sides or top. as well, those butchers at the mega give terrible haircuts for what you pay. but thats life i suppose.


----------



## ZipperHead

I think that many of the reasons given for the WHY we have short hair, don't really address the historical reasons for short hair in the military (not that I have a ready answer, but I thought I'd throw out the question).

After watching Cold Mountain and The Last Samurai on TV not too long ago (gotta love the HD PVR!!!! Record it and watch it whenever you want! But that's another issue......) I was thinking about why, in that era, soldiers had long hair, and during the later conflicts, short hair became the norm. I suspect (and could be wrong) that short hair came to being as a result of the lessons learned from that century, in regards to cleanliness and infection (ie they learned that soldiers with wounds left outside of barns, basically to die, outlived soldiers that were in better shape that were in the barns to recover, due to the unsanitary conditions.......).

Anyway, I have witnessed some different militaries of late with regard to their attitudes towards hair. I remember everybody saying how the Dutch army was full of long haired hippies, and then I worked with them in Bosnia in '00. The majority of them had shorter hair than me, and I used to be a #1 on sides and back type of guy. I asked a few guys about it, and they said it was personal preference, and that they sign something like an agreement not to embarras the Royal Dutch Army while deployed overseas with ridiculous hair (again, I could be wrong, but that was my take on how it was explained.....). 

The military always has, and always will have, people who like to look "different", be it with highlights in their hair, long sideburns, handle-bar mustaches, obsolete or foreign kit (even if it is technically inferior to issue kit), tattoos, etc. I myself have recently grown a mustache (being on parental leave, I am able to avoid the jabs of my peers commenting on the cheesiness of it as it grows in.... I'm fair skinned and blonde, so it is admittedly pretty lame, but what the hell.....) and I shaved my head bald, right down to the wood, as I was in need of a haircut, and my hairline was starting the slowl march north....., and I have had tattoos since I joined. I guess nobody wants to look like everybody else, but I think it has as of late gotten a little ridiculous, particularly with some of the haircolours that people are starting to show up to work with, and some of the piercings. 

A lot of the reasons can be societal or cultural as well, which I'm sure have been discussed (BTW, I didn't slog through 14 pages of posts, so I'm probably treading ground already covered, so stop reading if it's repetitive.....) already. My wife is in the military, and we have had "discussions" on why is it we want an "equal" military with regards to rights, pay, etc, but how is it that women don't have to get their heads shaved when they join, as men do??? Her reasoning (which is lame, IMHO) is that it is the norm in society for women to have long hair, and if women had to shave their heads (even once, as the great equalizer that it is meant to be in recruit training) they wouldn't join. Fair enough, but I know a lot of guys that had long (and I mean LONG) hair when they joined, and went through with it. Or how about all the potential super-soldiers out there with long hair (but NO mullets, please!!!!!) that won't join due to the current regs. Does anybody remember how hot Demi Moore looked in GI Jane???!?!?! Yes she had very little hair, if you looked north of her chest....... And I've seen more that a few women, in and out of the military, with short hair, and there was little chance of mistaking them for men.

Obviously, I am inclined to think that short hair is what should be the norm in the military for any number of reasons (hygiene, safety, appearance) but I suspect the policy makers will continue to change the regs for their reasons (increase recruiting, placate activists, etc) rather than the traditional ones.

Anyway. that's my thought on this matter.

Al


----------



## buzgo

What is the deal with those crazy handlebar moustaches anyway? I mean, I can see it on an RSM, but when you see a Corporal running around with a waxed up 'stash...


----------



## phalen

the hair above the beret line is yours to do whatever you want with, but some course staff will make everyone have the same haircut.
you can't bic your head unless you have a medical reason to do so.


----------



## TCBF

I shaved my head in Kandahar for awhile.  I had to stop.  I wasn't very good at it, and whenever I tried it, my washbasin looked like Alfred Hitchcock had filmed the shower scene from "Psycho" in it.

Tom


----------



## TheCheez

As far as bicing: If we showed up with no hair we were allowed to continue that way.


----------



## Franko

casus belli said:
			
		

> the hair above the beret line is yours to do whatever you want with.....



Within reason. It must somewhat reasonable and whatever you do.....

Don't die it BLUE!!!    :

Don't ask....believe me.

Regards


----------



## patt

Franko said:
			
		

> Within reason. It must somewhat reasonable and whatever you do.....
> 
> Don't die it BLUE!!!      :
> 
> Don't ask....believe me.
> 
> Regards



why franko got some bad experiences?


----------



## B.McTeer

Alittle off topic but at Reserve BMQ/SQ this summer in Wainwright do they cut your hair or should you get it cut super short down to a 1/2 before you go?


Regards
B.McTeer


----------



## Bob the builder

Cut your hair before you go, that way you will be prepared.  Instead of some members of my platoon who had to grab electric beard shavers and mutilate their hair . since we werent given a chance to go to a barber shop untill our first weekend off, which was after 2nd week.


----------



## B.McTeer

ok then im getting a buzz cut before i go. thx for the hint


----------



## armyrules

So I guess if you went to basic with a "high and tight" your instructors wouldn't like it very much. Am I correct?


----------



## big bad john

You're right.  There is a reason that everyone gets a haircut in basic, more of a reason than just cutting of hair.


----------



## armyrules

big bad john said:
			
		

> You're right. There is a reason that everyone gets a haircut in basic, more of a reason than just cutting of hair.



           Yeah I see your point  big bad john  because getting the haircut when you first get to basic is like the first step to being in the military. They want to show you that there is no placefor individuality in the military. Right?


----------



## big bad john

Break you down and build you up.  You have to be a team member.  Everyone is treated the same in Basic, haircut ect..


----------



## TCBF

" we werent given a chance to go to a barber shop untill our first weekend off, which was after 2nd week."

WHAT?  it's on the timetable.  Where the heck was Standards?

Tom


----------



## Bob the builder

The reason they didnt give us haircuts was because it was a last minute reserve course.


----------



## KLAVER

so im going to basic this summer at chillawack, should i get a haircut at the base or at my home?
if i went to haircut place at my home what type haircuts should i ask for?
thanks


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

I would get a hair cut the last day before you leave.  1 on the side 2 on the top (clippers).


----------



## SeanPaul_031

My clippers go by millimetres, not by 1-2-3 etc...

So how long is a 1? 2?


----------



## copecowboy

Get your head compleatly shaved before you go if you wish, since I first asked this question Ive completed basic in april, they shave everyones head the first week, afterwards you can have it longer on the top as long as you meet the standards.


----------



## dutchie

copecowboy said:
			
		

> Get your head compleatly shaved before you go if you wish, since I first asked this question Ive completed basic in april, they shave everyones head the first week, afterwards you can have it longer on the top as long as you meet the standards.



WRONG! If you shave your head, and you get sunburned, you can be charged. If you are not used to shaving your head, you will most likely burn quite badly. You will likely blister, and it will hurt like the dickens. Once this happens, expect a charge (self-inflicted wound), especially if it restricts your training. Nice little welcome to the Army, huh?

The simple advice on hair has already been given, and I still abide by it:

#2 on the top, #1 on the sides.

copecowboy - I don't know where you get your info, or what your experience is (empty profile..hint, hint), but your right the f' out of 'er.


----------



## c4th

SeanPaul_031 said:
			
		

> So how long is a 1? 2?



If you are asking this question, I wouldn't recommend cutting your own hair.  Self-tapering is tricky. If you bugger it up you'll go on course and be sent to the barber to get the tennis ball cut of 1 all over, and get to pay for it all the same.

Go to a barber (ONLY a barber, NOT a hairdresser) the day before and pay the $8-$12.  Ask for 1 on the sides, 2 on the top, fully tapered NOT square back.

Enjoy,


----------



## SeanPaul_031

c4th said:
			
		

> If you are asking this question, I wouldn't recommend cutting your own hair.   Self-tapering is tricky. If you bugger it up you'll go on course and be sent to the barber to get the tennis ball cut of 1 all over, and get to pay for it all the same.
> 
> Go to a barber (ONLY a barber, NOT a hairdresser) the day before and pay the $8-$12.   Ask for 1 on the sides, 2 on the top, fully tapered NOT square back.
> 
> Enjoy,



OK thxs, but how long is a 1 and how long is a 2?

Also, what is square back? Im assuming that tapered would be a gradual change from the 1 to the 2 from the sides to the top, so the appearance is that they blend together?
Would square back be simply just a straight line where the 1 ended and the 2 starts?


----------



## Gramps

A #1 is 1/8 " and a #2 is 1/4" in length.


----------



## dutchie

SeanPaul_031 said:
			
		

> Also, what is square back? Im assuming that tapered would be a gradual change from the 1 to the 2 from the sides to the top, so the appearance is that they blend together?
> Would square back be simply just a straight line where the 1 ended and the 2 starts?



A taper is when the hair gets progressively shorter as you go down towards the nape of the neck. A squareback is when the hair at the nape of the neck is cut in a defined line, and not tapered. Here are some so-sol photos I found when googling 'squareback haircut photos'. They're not great, but you'll get the idea....

taper
http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/3696/Photos_tp.html

squareback
http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/3696/Photos_sb.html

It sounds like you are going to cut your own hair, but I suggest you don't. Tapering takes skill, and you'll likely look like a weed wacker had a go at your head if you screw it up, which you probably will. Besides, it's only 5 or 10 bucks for a barber.


----------



## TCBF

Seriously, teaching at both Cornwallis in the eighties and St.Jean in the nineties, we didn't care what your hair looked like when you got there, 'cause you all got a haircut anyway.  What you did over the next up-to-ten-weeks interested us far more than your 'Do.  

Relax.

Tom


----------



## dutchie

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> Thats crap. I went with a shaved head AND I got a sunburn. As long as it didnt affect my training no one cared. heck id say it was prefered since I never had to go for haircuts and never looked unshaven. I was called a "solid indivdual" several times because I kept my head bare and didnt require the same supervision with regards to my facial hair/hair on collar/side burns.
> 
> Sure you could be charged if your sunburn so bad that it stops training. But you could charged because you fell on the obstacle course and hurt yourself. Common sense.



You didn't get charged, count yourself lucky. I know of 3 guys on my basic that did (ok, 1 guy was in another serial), and only 1 missed any training. They came back off of their first weekend pass looking like cueballs. The next day, one of them goes to the MIR for a sunburn and missed pt that day. The Course Warrant and Course Officer had all 3 charged after they were examined by the MO and determinied to have a sunburn due to shaving their head. All of them were allowed to continue, but they were a little light in the wallet for the OC's Weekend (big piss-up in Edmonton) the next month.

So, yes, you might be ok. Yes, you might not burn. Yes, you will not have to get your haircut and waste that precious time. The tradeoff? Possibly a significant fine, a sunburn, and if it's bad enough, a Med RTU. You pick. Use that 'common sense' that BeadWindow referred to.


----------



## Blakey

copecowboy said:
			
		

> Get your head compleatly shaved before you go if you wish, since I first asked this question Ive completed basic in april, they shave everyones head the first week, afterwards you can have it longer on the top as long as you meet the standards.


You completed basic in April, and your profile has Cpl for your rank...... :


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Jesus H !! It's a frikkin' haircut! Why all the crap and indecision? If you have this much trouble with personal grooming, how do you ever expect to make any kind of life altering choice on the spur of the moment! Get a fucking grip lads. Wait til you get there, go to the barber and get the same as everyone else. You'll have the rest of basic to dream up your Dee Snider hair style for after. Sheesh!! 

And I've just about had enough of all your schoolyard, one uppmanship crap. From all of you (except Tom and Gramps  )

At least the short hair or bald option makes it easier to pull your head out of your asses.


----------



## dutchie

BeadWindow said:
			
		

> how do you guys get bad sunburns on your heads? We werent allowed to be outside without a headress....My burn was face and nack....



pt....that and the beret doesn't cover all shaved areas.


----------



## chriscalow

recceguy said:
			
		

> At least the short hair or bald option makes it easier to pull your head out of your asses.



Classic.


----------



## Marchand De Boeufs

casus belli said:
			
		

> you can't bic your head unless you have a medical reason to do so.



If our hair is alreay bic when we arrive at course, can we bic our hair all the course long ?


----------



## copecowboy

Caesar said:
			
		

> WRONG! If you shave your head, and you get sunburned, you can be charged. If you are not used to shaving your head, you will most likely burn quite badly. You will likely blister, and it will hurt like the dickens. Once this happens, expect a charge (self-inflicted wound), especially if it restricts your training. Nice little welcome to the Army, huh?
> 
> The simple advice on hair has already been given, and I still abide by it:
> 
> #2 on the top, #1 on the sides.
> 
> copecowboy - I don't know where you get your info, or what your experience is (empty profile..hint, hint), but your right the f' out of 'er.



They will shave your head at st jean first week, You wont get charged for sunburn unless it keeps you from doing your job(as you pointed out) I probably shouldnt be arguing with you but through my 3 month experience there every platoon has been getting thier heads shaved first week, and before farnham, maybe once summer dress started things change I don't know.


----------



## koss78a

in basic training, do they actually shave your head totally, and no facial hair allowed?


----------



## D-n-A

Search...

For reg force basic, your have your head shaved on a 1, an you have to be clean shaven(unless you have a medical chit, an I think you can have a moustache during basic). For reserve depends on the course staff if they want to have everyone have a shaved head or high an tight, or just let people have whatever they want, aslong as its short.


----------



## watson

I shave my head on a 1 on a regular basis anyway.  ;D


----------



## Fry

as long as they leave enough hair on the top of my head to prevent sunburn, I'll be happy


----------



## boehm

There is no need to worry about getting a sunburn. Your beret will do a nice job of keeping the top half of your head nice and pasty white while the rest of your head slowly turns bright red. It's a look all the ladies love! ;D


----------



## NavComm

koss I can't tell by your profile if you are male or female. You call this a 'hairdo' which leads me to believe you might be female. The answer for femalies is: they don't shave your head. There are regs to do with how a woman's hair can be worn.

While at basic training, a female LS showed us how to wear our hair if it was passed the collar.


----------



## MysticLies

During my reserve BMQ, we had to cut our hair and we were allowed the choice between 1 and 2. and we had to be clean shaven at all times.


----------



## watson

The number refers to the closeness of the razor. 0 being almost totally bald, #1 being like a half cm more, and so on and so forth.


----------



## Fry

I get a #2 done on a regular basis, I think the military(for guys) will go closer than this... I hope so in my case, because my hair grows super fast and I'll spend most of my time getting it cut!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I would suggest to anyone here that will be attending BMQ in the future, wait until you get there. While your instructors expect you to be properly groomed, they don't expect you to show up, on your first day, conforming to a standard that they have yet to set. They will explain and teach you what they need you to know and how they want it.

I suggest that people who have done their BMQ to be judicious with your advice. Not all courses or instructors are the same. Try and remember your first day, don't ruin the suprise. 

I will finally suggest, for the umpteenth time, to people who have yet to personally experience BMQ or it's equivalents, please refrain from dispensing advice, on this site, that you are not qualified to give.


----------



## SierraAir

I remember being told not to shave your own head... but our MCpl said you can do it just don't tell anyone.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Mike L,

They don't want you to cut each others hair because most people don't know how and they end up making a mess of it. If the guy doing is competent and knows what he's doing, there's not a problem. It's done on deployment, etc. all the time. A 1 or 2 all over is not normally a problem, that's easy to do, it's the taper at the back of the neck where guys go wrong and end up looking like they had a fight with a weed eater.

Same thing for shaving your head, do it yourself, we all do. Just make sure you get it all.


----------



## Michael OLeary

> A-AD-265-000/AG-001
> CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS
> (Supersedes A-AD-265-000/AG-001 dated 1995-09-26)
> 
> OPI: DHH 3-2
> BPR : DHP 3-2 2001-06-15
> 
> Page 2-2-4
> 
> b. Women (see Figure 2-2-3). Hair shall not extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar (see below.) Exaggerated styles, including those with excessive fullness or extreme height, are not authorized. Braids, if worn, shall be styled conservatively and tied tightly: secured at the end by a knot or a small unadorned fastener. A single braid shall be worn in the centre of the back. Double braids shall be worn behind the shoulders. Hair shall be a maximum length when gathered behind the head and braided which does not extend below the top of the armpit. With the permission of a Commanding Officer, a 60-day transition period may be granted a member to grow her hair longer for re-styling, during which time hair may extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar; all the while maintaining a positive military appearance, and subject to the member's safety.


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

NavComm said:
			
		

> basic is not the same as the rest of the CF. Basic training is basic training. Things are not always as they are everywhere else.



That is correct. On my basic, we females were not permitted to wear our hair in anything other then a tight bun except for the field or on the obstacle course. Guys also had to keep their hair shorter then what the regulations would allow for, it seems to be that way for courses in general. 

When in doubt, follow what the instructors tell ya. You can't go wrong with that! 

For more on hair: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22553.0.html


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Questions been answered. 
To reiterate, wait till your told by your instructor what they want to see and then follow their direction.


----------



## Chimo

I see this as an NCO/Leader problem. Once we all get on the same sheet of music and enforce the existing regulations this discussion will end. It has been my experience most NCOs are hesitant to correct a female soldier on her hair. The regs are clearly stated. The RSM sets the standard for a Regiment and the NCOs duty is to enforce the standards and regs.

Now get on with it. If you don't like it, voice your concern in a constructive way, then continue to enforce the standard.


----------



## ZipperHead

Chimo said:
			
		

> I see this as an NCO/Leader problem. Once we all get on the same sheet of music and enforce the existing regulations this discussion will end. It has been my experience most NCOs are hesitant to correct a female soldier on her hair. The regs are clearly stated. The RSM sets the standard for a Regiment and the NCOs duty is to enforce the standards and regs.
> 
> Now get on with it. If you don't like it, voice your concern in a constructive way, then continue to enforce the standard.



I think we can all agree on your main points (leadership, enforcing standards), but it seems that today everything is far from clear. I haven't waded into the latest amendments on the convoluted hair debate (specifically colour), but I have seen far too many people (male and female) wandering around with questionable hair colouring. I know that there are more pressing concerns than what somebody has attached to their head, but I feel that there is too much vagueness in the regulations in that regard. For example, would a person of African descent (i.e a Negro) be allowed to have their hair coloured a colour that nature, or more precisely their genes, wouldn't allow, such as blonde? Or myself, who is of Finnish descent, and fair haired and fair skinned, to dye my hair black, and perhaps into a (no more than allowed by regs for bulk) Afro? They are "natural" colours and styles, but not for that individual. 

To be honest, hair is only hair. You either have it, or not (at the moment, I fall into the latter category).  It shouldn't define who you are, and if it does, wow!!! What happens when you lose it? Do you cease to exist? I'm moving off into the existential, so that is a sure sign that I should sum up....

Al


----------



## qor556

For practical means, hair being short and off the collar is much more comfortable when it is very hot/humid outside...keeps you MUCH cooler, but conversely in the winter there is less insulation of the head  Leniency during the winter months make sense I suppose.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Moose said:
			
		

> For practical means, hair being short and off the collar is much more comfortable when it is very hot/humid outside...keeps you MUCH cooler, but conversely in the winter there is less insulation of the head  Leniency during the winter months make sense I suppose.


As most old time barbers will tell you, the human hair is not hollow like most mammals. It provides no insulating value worth speaking of. Might act as a wind break of sorts, but so does a proper hat.


----------



## wulfzbane

so i have a mohawk.. would that be considered acceptable or would i have to shave it all off


----------



## Michael OLeary

wulfzbane said:
			
		

> so i have a mohawk.. would that be considered acceptable or would i have to shave it all off



You'll be losing it.


----------



## George Wallace

You are a woman, and there are a couple of acceptable ways for women in the CF to wear braids.  This has been covered before, and someone has even been able to post pictures of the acceptable ways to wear your hair.

You may put some thought into what the words "uniform" and "uniformity" mean.  That may greatly benefit you during Recruit Training.


----------



## annemarielyman

I have heard (rumor) that a bun cannot be worn with a helmet. Is this so? I'm only concerned besause I have no clue how to french braid hair. I've seen the pics, but seeing and doing are turning out to be quite different. If this is the case I may just line up with the guys and take the GI Jane cracks.  ;D


----------



## beach_bum

babybinrat.  I have long hair and manage to put it in a bun and still wear a helmet.  It does work.


----------



## lawandorder

The bun just has to sit lower then normal.


----------



## Thaern

Alright, I'm 100% new to this forum, and if my interveiw goes well the army reserves, so forgive me if theres already a post somewhere about this.  I was wondering what suggestions you guys could make about hair style.  My GF really hates short crewcut hair so i was wondering what types of other hair styles meet the standards and still at least look longer than a crewcut.  Note, im not trying to bend or break any of the regs i was just wondering if anyone has any tips on atleast making it look a bit longer or how to get it cut so it looks  grown out by the end of bmq.


----------



## boehm

You girlfriend better get used to short hair because you'll be getting a nice 1 all over just before your grad parade. Luckily you will be used to it because you will have gotten them every couple of weeks since the first day of basic.


----------



## beach_bum

Thaern said:
			
		

> Alright, I'm 100% new to this forum, and if my interveiw goes well the army reserves, so forgive me if theres already a post somewhere about this.  I was wondering what suggestions you guys could make about hair style.  My GF really hates short crewcut hair so i was wondering what types of other hair styles meet the standards and still at least look longer than a crewcut.  Note, im not trying to bend or break any of the regs i was just wondering if anyone has any tips on atleast making it look a bit longer or how to get it cut so it looks  grown out by the end of bmq.



Did you read the last 25 pages?  I don't think there is a single thing left to discuss on hair cuts that hasn't already been addressed.


----------



## MrCanada

Hi guys, I'm thinking about joining the reserves and have a question about hair. My hair right now is down to my shoulders, and I have no problem getting it cut, but I'm just a bit confused about how short it has to be. I have acne (not a bit, but a lot) on my face and all over my head, and I have some scarring too, and longer hair helps to draw attention away from it, whereas shorter hair seems to magnify it. I hate the idea of short hair ruining my self esteem, because I have been bullied for my acne/big ears before, but I still want to join the army. I've seen army haircuts before and the short length just looks scary. Here's what I've read: 

The Book is the CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS A-AD-265-000/AG-001, dated 2002-10-04 (mod 1.) 

Hair on the head shall be neatly groomed and conservatively styled. The length, bulk or style of hair shall not detract from a positive military appearance or preclude the proper wear of military headdress. (Bulk is the distance that the mass of hair extends from the skin, when groomed, as opposed to the length of hair.) In particular, style and colour shall not present a bizarre, exaggerated, or unusual appearance. Unusual colours, such as green, bright red, orange, purple, etc., are not permitted. Hair must be secured or styled back to reveal the face, and any accessories used to secure or control hair styles shall be as unobtrusive as possible. Hair ornaments shall not be worn, except women’s conservative barrettes which blend with thehair colour. Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted. The personal manner of wearing hair within these general style limits, including moustaches, beards and braids, shall be modified to the degree necessary to accommodate operational or occupational equipment, such as gas, oxygen and scuba masks, hard, combat and flying helmets, etc., where a member’s safety or mission is put in jeopardy.

The following additional details apply to specific groups to accord with religious and spiritual practices and public perceptions of a disciplined force:
a. Men (see Figure 2-2-1). 
Hair shall be tapertrimmed at the back, sides, and above the ears to blend with the hair-style; be no more than 15 cm (6 in.) in length and sufficiently short that, when the hair is groomed and headdress is removed, no hair shall touch the ears or fall below the top of the eyebrows; be no more than 4 cm (1-1/2 in.) in bulk at the top of the head, gradually decreasing to blend with the taper-trimmed sides and back; and be kept free from the neck to a distance of 2.5 cm (1 in.) above the shirt collar. Taper trimmed square back styles and shaving of all the hair on the head are permitted.

So out of these, which ones would be okay?

1) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=men%27s+tapered+haircut&start=34&num=10&um=1&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=ChfuwzDmFuDD0M:&imgrefurl=http://www.haircutshairstyles.com/celebrity-mens-hairstyles.shtml&docid=k_axTI8DcWXd3M&imgurl=http://pics.haircutshairstyles.com/img/photos/full/2009-07/taylor_lautner_short_layered_haircut371.jpg&w=225&h=300&ei=a48uT4vXOa7aiQKwttTgCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=584&vpy=434&dur=3923&hovh=240&hovw=180&tx=92&ty=132&sig=100439230851368422389&sqi=2&page=2&tbnh=143&tbnw=107&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:34

2) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Akshaye+Khanna+Haircut&um=1&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=pfroNCro2Ye_oM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bharatwaves.com/news/Venky-walks-the-ramp-with-King-fisher-models-8156.html&docid=BX8OzuADHSf3lM&imgurl=http://www.bharatwaves.com/portal/uploads/original_Akshaye-Khanna_47308b15da01a.jpg&w=470&h=300&ei=jo8uT6_uMqnciQKG49GsCg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=334&sig=100439230851368422389&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=179&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:21,s:0&tx=137&ty=91

3) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Mens+medium+hair&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=XCNPsB64ee91xM:&imgrefurl=http://www.menshaircuts.net/medium-long-hairstyles-for-men-2012/&docid=JOsTpQAXYRFXSM&imgurl=http://www.menshaircuts.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/messy1.jpg&w=400&h=362&ei=lpAuT62dI8iviQL93b2aCg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=485&sig=100439230851368422389&page=2&tbnh=143&tbnw=153&start=39&ndsp=47&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:39&tx=106&ty=49

4) In this picture, the guy on the left: http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Long+army+hair&um=1&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=Pa7GQMkM-MzLLM:&imgrefurl=http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/2007/12/peace-out.html&docid=98tPrHScFZ7YZM&imgurl=http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/images/2007/12/13/framed_dude_peaceout_1_2.jpg&w=595&h=446&ei=MZMuT8WeBKnJiQLJ-aSuCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=345&vpy=185&dur=4165&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=162&ty=106&sig=100439230851368422389&page=1&tbnh=119&tbnw=164&start=0&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0

5) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Long+army+hair&um=1&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=__w8W8IiNKs0LM:&imgrefurl=http://www.menhairstyle.org/short-hairstyle-types-for-males.html&docid=k4OPrkvxH7BJbM&imgurl=http://www.menhairstyle.org/wp-content/gallery/short-hair-types/Funky%252520men%252520hairstyle%252520from%252520Daniel%252520Radcliffe.jpg&w=362&h=362&ei=MZMuT8WeBKnJiQLJ-aSuCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1078&vpy=331&dur=1005&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=117&ty=93&sig=100439230851368422389&page=2&tbnh=131&tbnw=131&start=35&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:32,s:35

6) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Mens+medium+bangs&um=1&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=Xl20cMCBirOhHM:&imgrefurl=http://www.hairstyleagain.com/hair-style-beauty/mens-trendy-hairstyle-fringe/&docid=0WnUAN30vfdkaM&imgurl=http://www.hairstyleagain.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mens-trendy-hairstyle-fringe.jpg&w=600&h=430&ei=4JQuT9C-F6fYiQLb5smbCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=377&vpy=484&dur=4146&hovh=190&hovw=265&tx=187&ty=127&sig=100439230851368422389&page=2&tbnh=136&tbnw=185&start=23&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:23


I like the 3rd and 6th pics, and wouldn't mind cutting the sides and back a bit shorter. Thoughts? Just state which numbers would work. Maybe the second?


----------



## PuckChaser

All of those haircuts are going to be unacceptable for your BMQ.

Try googling pictures of CF members, all the pictures you have are either Americans or models: none of which will have the same hair cut standard as us.


----------



## MrCanada

I thought that the second one was pretty reasonable...


----------



## MJP

MrCanada said:
			
		

> I thought that the second one was pretty reasonable...



What you thought and reality are far apart.  Trust us they are all unacceptable for a a person starting out.  Once in a unit you have a bit more leeway but it still can't be touching the ears or looking like a rats nest along the sides.


----------



## Franko

MrCanada said:
			
		

> I thought that the second one was pretty reasonable...



You thought wrong.

Regards


----------



## Silverfire

Hair can't touch your collar or ears.  During BMQ they'll ask you if you want a 1 or a 2. Those are your options.  Take what you can get.


----------



## aesop081

MrCanada said:
			
		

> So out of these, which ones would be okay?



None of them.


----------



## Teeps74

Show up for BMQ in my unit, and you will be off for a fresh hair cut pretty quick should you be sporting one of those.

All is not lost though. Small sacrifice on the hair can pay dividends in the long run. 18 years now, and I am still having fun! Yes, it is also brutally hard work at times, especially on deployments... But it is very rewarding!


----------



## aesop081

You've been going on about this hair thing since January of last year.

Maybe it's time for you to grow some stones and stop using "whaa i've been bullied" as an excuse. I'm sure your self-esteem could use some time off.


----------



## Jammer

if you don't want to conform to CF hair policy....don't bother. (OMFG I wish I could lock this one).


----------



## MrCanada

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You've been going on about this hair thing since January of last year.
> 
> Maybe it's time for you to grow some stones and stop using "whaa i've been bullied" as an excuse. I'm sure your self-esteem could use some time off.



Yeah I wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, it's happened to me, and it don't feel too good.

Anyways, how about this one. Underneath it says that it's 2 inch on top and 1/2 inch on sides. Would this be okay?

http://menshair.about.com/od/mediumhaircutsstyles/ig/Celebrity-Hairstyles-4/Justin-Bartha.htm


----------



## chrisf

It's hair.

A very old, very wise man, whom I respect very much, once told me "The most important thing you can ever do in your life is loose your vanity".

If you're that concerned about having hair that looks like a male model, the military is not for you, consider male modelling.

(Fun side note, somthing about being told to get a hair cut by a man who's got a comb-over a foot long never felt right...)


----------



## Sythen

MrCanada said:
			
		

> Yeah I wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, it's happened to me, and it don't feel too good.
> 
> Anyways, how about this one. Underneath it says that it's 2 inch on top and 1/2 inch on sides. Would this be okay?
> 
> http://menshair.about.com/od/mediumhaircutsstyles/ig/Celebrity-Hairstyles-4/Justin-Bartha.htm



The answer is that no one on this board can tell you what your instructors will or won't allow. On my BMQ, we all got shaved (except the 2 females). If you get to BMQ, and try to tell them that some random guy on a message board said you won't get your hair shaved off, and your Pl WO decides you will.. Guess who wins? In the army, you will undergo a lot more stress than what some bullies caused you, so if that is this big of a deal for you, you are not cut out for service.


----------



## aesop081

MrCanada said:
			
		

> Yeah I wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, it's happened to me, and it don't feel too good.



The Taliban (or whoever) isnt going to give a rat's a$$ about your self-esteem. Better learn to get over it. You're not the only one with acne and/or oddly shaped head. Get over yourself.



> Anyways, how about this one. Underneath it says that it's 2 inch on top and 1/2 inch on sides. Would this be okay?
> 
> http://menshair.about.com/od/mediumhaircutsstyles/ig/Celebrity-Hairstyles-4/Justin-Bartha.htm



No.


----------



## medicineman

If you actually read the CF Dress Instructions, you would have seen a picture or two showing what the minimum standard is.  

MM


----------



## Scott

MrCanada said:
			
		

> Hi guys, I'm thinking about joining the reserves and have a question about hair. My hair right now is down to my shoulders, and I have no problem getting it cut, but I'm just a bit confused about how short it has to be. I have acne (not a bit, but a lot) on my face and all over my head, and I have some scarring too, and longer hair helps to draw attention away from it, whereas shorter hair seems to magnify it. I hate the idea of short hair ruining my self esteem, because I have been bullied for my acne/big ears before, but I still want to join the army. I've seen army haircuts before and the short length just looks scary.



My wife has acne scars on her face. Her hair can't cover them. Get over it.


----------



## Duckie

You're not allowed to have any kind of hairstyle on basic. Like it was said before, you get to choose number 1, or number two. With all your obsession with hair, I'd think being a hairstylist would be a better plan than the military.

This is what you can choose for hair cuts on basic:
http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=number+1+haircut&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-GBfficial&biw=1143&bih=484&tbm=isch&tbnid=WIcZMZT5ujZueM:&imgrefurl=http://www.hair-style.tk/buzz-cut-hairstyles/&docid=caRv7FyxJMVnPM&imgurl=http://www.hair-style.tk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Buzzcut-Hairstyles-Image.jpg&w=500&h=500&ei=GasuT6XdOMLoggfw_K3LDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=386&vpy=146&dur=103&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=135&ty=150&sig=110216534030394599836&page=1&tbnh=114&tbnw=119&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0


----------



## medicineman

MrCanada said:
			
		

> Yeah I wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, it's happened to me, and it don't feel too good.
> 
> Anyways, how about this one. Underneath it says that it's 2 inch on top and 1/2 inch on sides. Would this be okay?
> 
> http://menshair.about.com/od/mediumhaircutsstyles/ig/Celebrity-Hairstyles-4/Justin-Bartha.htm



Think more along the lines of a cue-ball with that guy's facial hair on top and sides instead. 

MM


----------



## BernDawg

So, if you "have no problem getting it cut" why are we wasting band width on this? Just join already and take what you get!  BTW did you ever consider that if your head got more air your acne might not be as bad?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

OK ok...now that I have stopped laughing at some of the haircuts you are getting us to look at...

Try this site for an idea of haircuts in the CF.  Even some of those might be alittle outside the book reg's, but you'll get the point.

Also, you could try here for more pictures.

Googling "celebrity guys with bad sic hair" won't produce the results you are looking for.


----------



## Jammer

MrCanada:

Knock it off now. 
You have wasted enough time and Kb on this issue. You're no more special than anyone else, and nobody really cares at this point. By continuong to post "How about this one" simply shows how much effort you are willing to go through to circumvent the system. If you ever make it to a BMQ this attutude will only serve to single you for mocking and ridicule by your peers and thus crushing whatever is left of your so called self esteem.
In other words...Smarten up FFS.
J.


----------



## armyvern

MrCanada

As someone who had the shit harassed out of her while growing up by other kids, I know where you are coming from regarding the long-lasting impact that can be caused on the psychological front. I was the little red-headed girl with all the freckles and buck teeth. I still have self-esteem issues today because of some of the bullshit that I had to endure as a kid. BUT, I made out OK. Kids are f`n cruel. 

No worries on the haircut front, and I realize the apprehension that what others would regard as `such a simple thing`causes for those who have real reasons to fear `putting themselves out there for another round of BS and harassment`from idiots regarding physical looks that we have no control over. That being said, realize that as a CF member, you`d actually have a step up on the f`n idiots whom you fear would make the comments etc again ... they`d be in uniform and we don`t put up with bullshit such as this. If you find that you are subject to such denigration by your peers or supervisors once the hair is cut and they do not cease when you ask them to ... send me a PM and I`ll advise you further.



From someone who understands the tightness you get in your chest and the apprehension that comes with it just having to think about putting yourself in a position for someone to notice your physical issues again. 25 years after I graduated from high-school, I still get that tightness and apprehension - and seek for ways to avoid certain situations -  dependant upon the situation all thanks to a bunch of asshole bully-kids (and those who just sat back and just watched it happen) from my school years. My friends from that time are extremely few - I can count them on three fingers - and there`s good reason for that. But, don`t let these fuckers hold you down another single minute. At the end of the day, you are better than them.


----------



## Bart905

From my own experience with having bad acne is this . You notice it more then others . Dont be ashamed of it , most people in one point in their life had acne problems . Love your self and be confident with who you are.


----------



## sappermcfly

My advice as someone who has taught on a few courses: shave your head. You only get one chance to make a first impression. A shaved head gives the impression that you understand you have to go by someone else s rules now, you have a positive and eager attitude towards being successful in your course, and you are willing to be part of the team.Imagine showing up on day one with an earing, long hair and an attitude, How do you think that is going to go over in the long run?

You will soon find that in a military unit, everyone has there part to play. Some people can run for a week without stopping, some are very intelligent and know just about everything, some are very funny and keep morale high, some are built like brick ##$houses and can do the physical labour of a small forklift, and some blossom later on in their careers, but the fact remains that they are the sum of all these parts.You will be a part of this.

 Now transfer this mentality to the larger part, and you begin to understand how tanks can't run unless they are fixed by mechanics, mechanics won't work if they can't eat, cooks won't work if they don't get paid, tanks don't get anywhere unless there are roads and bridges that are safe to traverse, and nobody can get over land or water without a ship or a plane.

Bottom line, suck it up, we all have our issues that we are subconscious about, but we also all have our strengths, which help the team out and are a necessary part of the whole entity.

Good luck and get a haircut! Skinned! Now!


----------



## estoguy

Got to agree with the majority here.  If you are a guy, the expectation is that you will buzz off the hair.  Although I'm still in the application process, I have my hair short all the time.  Consider the practicality.  Get up in the morning... no comb needed.  Just shower and go.

From my understanding of how basic goes, you'll save yourself time and effort not having to worry about hair.

Just suck it up and do it.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Don't worry, come in with what ever hairstyle you like..... you will end up like this anyways.......


----------



## ballz

In all seriousness, long hair or short hair, acne or no acne, is not going to change whether or not you get bullied.

Your confidence in yourself and the way you assert yourself is the only thing that stops it. Perhaps you should consider shaving your head as symbolizing a good-bye to the old you that kept his head down and tried to avoid being noticed by others, and a way of welcoming the fact that you're going to be a confident, sharp, professional soldier.

And FWIW, every time I grew my hair out when I was 15/16/17 it always made skin oilier and my acne worse. Every time I got it cut, my skin/acne got much better.

Good luck.


----------



## jparkin

ballz said:
			
		

> And FWIW, every time I grew my hair out when I was 15/16/17 it always made skin oilier and my acne worse. Every time I got it cut, my skin/acne got much better.



Exactly what I was thinking. In grade eight I had some pretty fearsome neck-acne that I decided to cover up with collars and turtlenecks... :
I'm sure you can guess how that went. As soon as I lost that look and started showering after gym class, things straightened out a bit.
After finally getting out of the awkward puberty stage a year ago, I can testify that it gets better over time.


----------



## richi

While this thread is going I have a question of my own, instead of starting another. During the first few weeks of BMQ while you are confined to the base are there any opportunities to shave your head? (with a hair trimmer set on 0, no attachments).  Currently I shave my head once per week as I do not like the semi balding look, however if I have to wait a few weeks to cut it it's no big deal. Could I bring my own shaver as well? 

thanks in advance.


----------



## MikeL

When I was in the training system barracks haircuts were frowned upon(and I assume still are), and if caught(ie having a shitty haircut) you would be in ****.

On that note, during BMQ I never cut my own hair, but during SQ myself and some others shaved our own heads without issue, well except for one guy who got a buddy to shave his head but missed some hair and it was picked up during inspection.  Hair clippers were kept in a personal bag in the spare kit closet on our wing of the shacks.

I would recommend just letting the barbers cut your hair during BMQ, after that see how things are on future courses/PAT and judge for yourself if you want to have your own hair clippers and cut your hair.


----------



## Diamondwillow

I too have a question about hair - I'm female and have kept my hair short for about 2.5yrs now - I'm talking 1/2" guard short.  Right now - I've let it grow out (about 2.5 inches atm) but I am really not too keen on keeping my hair this length or growing it out further.  I am going into BMQ in 2 weeks and am actually unsure if by getting my hair cut to my usual length I will be cause - problems - older female with a butch cut isn't a good start to blending in BMQ I'm guessing.

I did a search on the length of hair for females and none of the posts I could find pertains to how short it may be.. but I DID find a post from some years ago that some girls with cropped locks caused the BMQ instructors to consider charging them????   Of course there very well could be more to the story but I'm curious.
Hopefully someone can shed some light on those regulations as I could not find the official CF file online that gave the hair length requirements for women. 

Edit - a wee bit pedantic - fixed a repeated line


----------



## chrisf

There is no minimum length, you'll be fine.

If you want to go back to 1/2", you'll find your life even easier.


----------



## Diamondwillow

Fantastic!  Crop it is then.  Thank you for the input.


----------



## MrCanada

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> MrCanada
> 
> As someone who had the crap harassed out of her while growing up by other kids, I know where you are coming from regarding the long-lasting impact that can be caused on the psychological front. I was the little red-headed girl with all the freckles and buck teeth. I still have self-esteem issues today because of some of the bullshit that I had to endure as a kid. BUT, I made out OK. Kids are f`n cruel.
> 
> No worries on the haircut front, and I realize the apprehension that what others would regard as `such a simple thing`causes for those who have real reasons to fear `putting themselves out there for another round of BS and harassment`from idiots regarding physical looks that we have no control over. That being said, realize that as a CF member, you`d actually have a step up on the f`n idiots whom you fear would make the comments etc again ... they`d be in uniform and we don`t put up with bullshit such as this. If you find that you are subject to such denigration by your peers or supervisors once the hair is cut and they do not cease when you ask them to ... send me a PM and I`ll advise you further.
> 
> 
> 
> From someone who understands the tightness you get in your chest and the apprehension that comes with it just having to think about putting yourself in a position for someone to notice your physical issues again. 25 years after I graduated from high-school, I still get that tightness and apprehension - and seek for ways to avoid certain situations -  dependant upon the situation all thanks to a bunch of ******* bully-kids (and those who just sat back and just watched it happen) from my school years. My friends from that time are extremely few - I can count them on three fingers - and there`s good reason for that. But, don`t let these ****ers hold you down another single minute. At the end of the day, you are better than them.



Thank you for understanding  I know that it does seem silly to some, but hearing that it'll be no big deal from someone that has actually experienced something similar means a lot. I'm not mad or angry with what the others had to say, and at the end of the day I do realize that they're right. There's no point in whining and complaining about getting a haircut, because unless I decide to put on a Turban and become a practicing Sikh it's going to get cut no matter what.

And to anyone who may of been thinking it, no, I am not going on Google and deliberately searching for "male celebrity haircuts". I was searching "men's short haircuts", and it just so happened that a lot of the pictures were links from celebrity websites, that's all. 

As far as this picture is concerned: http://menshair.about.com/od/mediumhaircutsstyles/ig/Celebrity-Hairstyles-4/Justin-Bartha.htm

The only reason I posted it was because the description underneath said that "The hair is cut to about 1/2 inch on the sides and back and 2 inches on top.".
Isn't that what the regulations say it has to be?

I tried finding Military haircuts this time. Would any of these work? Maybe not for BMQ, but afterwards perhaps?

1) http://haircutsformen.org/buzz/haircuts/buzz04.htm

2) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Marines+Haircut+bangs&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=IGdG-r0Yv51lGM:&imgrefurl=http://philwickham.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/after-your-heart-and-a-haircut-a-really-short-one/&docid=Us_RuO1j_laRQM&imgurl=http://philwickham.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/sidecrop.jpg&w=437&h=442&ei=DEsvT-qaO-TciQLu5rnQCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=177&vpy=431&dur=6242&hovh=226&hovw=223&tx=184&ty=62&sig=100258927257839692882&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=136&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:0

3) http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_j7CBBTUIT5g/S76tjgr9aZI/AAAAAAAAAtw/hnUxzNfCkHo/s1600/Dear+John+004.jpg

The last one is from a movie, and I know it'll be a no-no in BMQ, but how about afterwards?


----------



## kimbrian

I'd say this is ideal length for non recruits

http://www.haircareresources.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/crew-cut-hairstyles-3.jpg

also, you can look up Toby Maguire's hair for Brothers (2009).

cheers,


----------



## ekpiper

MrCanada said:
			
		

> Thank you for understanding  I know that it does seem silly to some, but hearing that it'll be no big deal from someone that has actually experienced something similar means a lot. I'm not mad or angry with what the others had to say, and at the end of the day I do realize that they're right. There's no point in whining and complaining about getting a haircut, because unless I decide to put on a Turban and become a practicing Sikh it's going to get cut no matter what.
> 
> And to anyone who may of been thinking it, no, I am not going on Google and deliberately searching for "male celebrity haircuts". I was searching "men's short haircuts", and it just so happened that a lot of the pictures were links from celebrity websites, that's all.
> 
> As far as this picture is concerned: http://menshair.about.com/od/mediumhaircutsstyles/ig/Celebrity-Hairstyles-4/Justin-Bartha.htm
> 
> The only reason I posted it was because the description underneath said that "The hair is cut to about 1/2 inch on the sides and back and 2 inches on top.".
> Isn't that what the regulations say it has to be?
> 
> I tried finding Military haircuts this time. Would any of these work? Maybe not for BMQ, but afterwards perhaps?
> 
> 1) http://haircutsformen.org/buzz/haircuts/buzz04.htm
> 
> 2) http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Marines+Haircut+bangs&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=IGdG-r0Yv51lGM:&imgrefurl=http://philwickham.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/after-your-heart-and-a-haircut-a-really-short-one/&docid=Us_RuO1j_laRQM&imgurl=http://philwickham.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/sidecrop.jpg&w=437&h=442&ei=DEsvT-qaO-TciQLu5rnQCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=177&vpy=431&dur=6242&hovh=226&hovw=223&tx=184&ty=62&sig=100258927257839692882&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=136&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:0
> 
> 3) http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_j7CBBTUIT5g/S76tjgr9aZI/AAAAAAAAAtw/hnUxzNfCkHo/s1600/Dear+John+004.jpg
> 
> The last one is from a movie, and I know it'll be a no-no in BMQ, but how about afterwards?



Ok, so here is the basic idea of the haircut that you can have, at most times after basic:

Sides:  Thick enough that you can't see the skin beneath.  This will require a haircut every 3/4 weeks though, as it is usually a fine line between that and having it touch your ears.
Top: A good amount, even enough to cover a bit of your forehead if you have acne along the hairline.

In my experience, the CF has a good number of mature people who don't judge.  I've had (and still have) my share of self-esteem points about my body, be it acne, weight, man boobs.  I have never in 4.5 years (and lots of full visual disclosure) had a single comment about any of it.  I still have those problems in my head, but believe me...those little self-esteem niggles will be completely gone during your training, and afterwards, you'll have enough latitude to try and cover it up if it still seems necessary, but you'll likely have different priorities afterwards.  People will be judging you on a lot of factors, but physical appearance is one that I've found to not be high on the scale.

In the mean time, accept that you are as you are, and that we have no control over a lot of our physical aspects.  There's no logic in worrying about things you haven't any control over.  Just as it is illogical for others to pick on you for it.  I know a number of people with acne that is most certainly 10-20x more severe than yours if you're using hair to cover it up.  He as an RMC cadet, and when he becomes an officer, he can be proud of his accomplishments and have a lot of good friends.


----------



## Johansen

Repitively asking the same question on here isn't going to get you your answer. Bottom line, if you're told it's too long, you cut it.


----------



## startbutton

Johansen said:
			
		

> Repitively asking the same question on here isn't going to get you your answer. Bottom line, if you're told it's too long, you cut it.



Agreed your question has been asked and answered quite a few times. In the end you have to decide wether you can put your self esteem issue aside and join the the CF or not be able to and move onto another career where hair length is not an issue .
Sorry if this seems harsh but we have dress regs for a reason and I don't think they will make an acception for you on hair length.


----------



## Stoker

Mr Canada i'm not going to sugarcoat it for you, you will have **** chucked at you for one thing or another pretty much your entire career.  Most of it is just harmless fun, but some its pretty vicious. You have to make a decision to shake it off and not let it bother you. Your BMQ will grow your confidence and self esteem, you'll be surprised. If you can't deal with that then i'm afraid the military is not for you.


----------



## SentryMAn

Let me put it this way about you being bullied about your acne.

Simply tell the bullies why you shaved your head.
Then tell them you get to march around and carry an Automatic Weapon.
Tell them what you get to do at work and how rewarding it is.

Then ask them about their day and see how many hours of video games they played and what their mom made them for lunch.


----------



## kenmnuggas

For what it's worth, if people on your BM(o)Q hear you making a fuss about your haircut, they're going to make fun of you for it. You're putting yourself in a position where this will turn out badly for you.


----------



## RangerRay

When I did my QL 2/3 back in the day, we all got #1's or #2's, and it was discovered that one guy had a scabby scalp underneath.  It didn't bother him and the only one who said anything was a staff member who kept calling him "Uncle Fester".  But he was kind of a **** anyways, commenting on other recruits' appearances.  No body cared what he said.

The long and short of it: get your hair cut as directed by your course staff, and don't complain about it.  Only ****'s will make a deal of your acne.  And you won't waste time ****ing around with your hair in the morning before inspection.


----------



## medicineman

We're still talking about this??!! 

MM


----------



## Scott

medicineman said:
			
		

> We're still talking about this??!!
> 
> MM



Not any longer.

Locked.


----------



## RickyBobby

Can anyone find me the Q R and O's or DAOD reference in regards to the regulations on haircuts. I've been in for 7 years, remuster to a new trade and now I am getting told that with my hair at approx 2 and half inches on top and a one buzzer on the side, tapered back, sideburns in check that my hair is too long(considering I just had my haircut on Tuesday and I don't feel like wasting anymore money on another one so soon). If I am going to go against what the person who ordered me to get a haircut is telling me to do I want to have proper backing so I can confirm 100% that I am in the right. Any help would be great on this,

Cheers.


----------



## PMedMoe

It's in the Dress Regs.  CFP 265.  Do a search, it's been posted here.

I would guess it's the difference in length between the top and the sides that is the issue.


----------



## Navy_Pete

> A-AD-265-000/AG-001 - Canadian Forces Dress Instructions 

There is a stickied thread on here with links to the common refs (CFAOs DAODs etc).  You should be able to find this fairly easily on the online publications depot on the DWAN.

From what I remember, it has pictures with measurements.  You should be able to see pretty easily if you have an issue.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that you'll win the arguement, some will tell you the pub is the 'minimum standard' and that units can go above and beyond that.  Guessing you probably didn't remuster to an air force trade? >


----------



## mariomike

RickyBobby said:
			
		

> Can anyone find me the Q R and O's or DAOD reference in regards to the regulations on haircuts.



Would this be it?

Topic: "Acceptable Army Hair?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/104425.0

Topic: "Haircut a "go" or "no go" according to dress regs?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55956.0


----------



## George Wallace

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13144/post-10290.html#msg10290


----------



## RickyBobby

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> > A-AD-265-000/AG-001 - Canadian Forces Dress Instructions
> 
> There is a stickied thread on here with links to the common refs (CFAOs DAODs etc).  You should be able to find this fairly easily on the online publications depot on the DWAN.
> 
> From what I remember, it has pictures with measurements.  You should be able to see pretty easily if you have an issue.
> 
> Having said that, it doesn't mean that you'll win the arguement, some will tell you the pub is the 'minimum standard' and that units can go above and beyond that.  Guessing you probably didn't remuster to an air force trade? >




Ironically enough I remustered from the army to the air force. However with your last part of the paragraph putting my view now in grey I think I'll shell out the 7 dollars and get a slight trim.... This certain person has it out for me. I've instructed a few times and I know when someone has it out for a student, it happens.


----------



## RickyBobby

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> It's in the Dress Regs.  CFP 265.  Do a search, it's been posted here.
> 
> I would guess it's the difference in length between the top and the sides that is the issue.



Possibly but its rather tapered, the base barbers normally have a keen eye on these things.


----------



## RickyBobby

mariomike said:
			
		

> Would this be it?
> 
> Topic: "Acceptable Army Hair?":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/104425.0
> 
> Topic: "Haircut a "go" or "no go" according to dress regs?":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55956.0




I don't think so unless I missed it.


----------



## RickyBobby

George Wallace said:
			
		

> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13144/post-10290.html#msg10290




Is there a reference on that or is it just the direct quote?


----------



## George Wallace

That was a quote from Regs.....How dated? That is unsure.


----------



## RickyBobby

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That was a quote from Regs.....How dated? That is unsure.




Yes, but I was wondering where the reference was at, page number para etc.


----------



## mariomike

RickyBobby said:
			
		

> I don't think so unless I missed it.



It's in there.

CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS A-AD-265-000/AG-001, dated 2002-10-04 (mod 1.) 

Hair on the head shall be neatly groomed and conservatively styled. The length, bulk or style of hair shall not detract from a positive military appearance or preclude the proper wear of military headdress. (Bulk is the distance that the mass of hair extends from the skin, when groomed, as opposed to the length of hair.) In particular, style and colour shall not present a bizarre, exaggerated, or unusual appearance. Unusual colours, such as green, bright red, orange, purple, etc., are not permitted. Hair must be secured or styled back to reveal the face, and any accessories used to secure or control hair styles shall be as unobtrusive as possible. Hair ornaments shall not be worn, except women’s conservative barrettes which blend with thehair colour. Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted. The personal manner of wearing hair within these general style limits, including moustaches, beards and braids, shall be modified to the degree necessary to accommodate operational or occupational equipment, such as gas, oxygen and scuba masks, hard, combat and flying helmets, etc., where a member’s safety or mission is put in jeopardy.


----------



## George Wallace

RickyBobby said:
			
		

> Yes, but I was wondering where the reference was at, page number para etc.



Have you checked your Unit Bulletin Boards?

Dress Regs, Routine Orders, etc. are usually there to keep you up to date on such regs.


----------



## RickyBobby

mariomike said:
			
		

> It's in there.
> 
> CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS A-AD-265-000/AG-001, dated 2002-10-04 (mod 1.)
> 
> Hair on the head shall be neatly groomed and conservatively styled. The length, bulk or style of hair shall not detract from a positive military appearance or preclude the proper wear of military headdress. (Bulk is the distance that the mass of hair extends from the skin, when groomed, as opposed to the length of hair.) In particular, style and colour shall not present a bizarre, exaggerated, or unusual appearance. Unusual colours, such as green, bright red, orange, purple, etc., are not permitted. Hair must be secured or styled back to reveal the face, and any accessories used to secure or control hair styles shall be as unobtrusive as possible. Hair ornaments shall not be worn, except women’s conservative barrettes which blend with thehair colour. Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted. The personal manner of wearing hair within these general style limits, including moustaches, beards and braids, shall be modified to the degree necessary to accommodate operational or occupational equipment, such as gas, oxygen and scuba masks, hard, combat and flying helmets, etc., where a member’s safety or mission is put in jeopardy.




Oh crap, cheers, I needed that top part bad lol.


----------



## AudiR8

I'd like to start of by saying im sorry if this isn't in the right place, i didn't know where else to place it. 

The Cpl, leading us in our run 2 days ago said something about my sides, and saying the top is fine just the sides are (all a blur at this point) we were doing some PT while he said it. Also, yes i did search the site, i did find the regulation at http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13144.0 but i didn't understand it too much, im more of a visual guy  :facepalm:

http://i46.tinypic.com/xfvyo.jpg  -photo of my hair #1

http://i50.tinypic.com/10y18h3.jpg  -photo of my hair #1


Can anyone please shed some light. At the moment i have a #2 on the sides. and i got my hair cut 3 days ago. Do i need to go a #1 on the sides? thats pretty much bald on the sides. or do i need to bring the sideburns up and if so to which point? Im so confused.


----------



## Maxadia

Sideburns.  Halfway up the ear.


----------



## Robert0288

Side burns are too low.  Use that little nobby bit on your ear as a guide.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> .... (1) Sideburns. Sideburns *shall not extend below a line horizontally bisecting the ear*, and shall be squared off horizontally at the bottom edge and taper-trimmed to conform to the overall hair style.
> (....)


South of the red line in the attached photo has to go, and the bottom of the sideburns have to be level, not slanted like in the photo.

Makin' sense?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

CF Dress Instructions

Pages 48 & 49 of the PDF/Pages 2-2-2 & 2-2-3 of the publication.

Pictures are on page 59 & 60 of the PDF/Pages 2-2-14 & 2-2-15.


----------



## SentryMAn

Go to the Base Barber, ask them to cut your hair, walk out paying under $10

It will meet regulations since they cut 1000's of members hair a month.


----------



## George Wallace

Also; a tapered cut, not a a Square back.


----------



## Occam

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Also; a tapered cut, not a a Square back.



Tapered square backs, as well as shaving of the whole noggin are now permitted.


----------



## kratz

As Occam mentioned, here is the link to the ref:

(page 59 of the pdf)

The reference is dated 1 June 2011, so it is reasonably recent for home based references (vice the DIN).


----------



## AudiR8

Thanks a ton guys!

Hopefully someone else, can benefit from this in the future without having to make another pointless topic like i did.


----------



## The Bread Guy

AudiR8 said:
			
		

> Thanks a ton guys!
> 
> Hopefully someone else, can benefit from this in the future without having to make another pointless topic like i did.


Adding this latest to the font of already-existing material here.


----------



## Perry.E

On a related note, does anyone know of a barber in Calgary who can do a proper military cut?

I went to John P. at Northill mall for years, but he retired.   Never found a replacement.

Where are all of the reservists going since Currie closed?


//Former reservist.


----------



## MikeL

What do you consider a proper military cut?

Any barber shop should suffice.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> What do you consider a proper military cut?
> 
> Any barber shop should suffice.



I've been all over here in YYC.  If you print off the diagram from the 265 then there shouldn't be an issues.  But I just usually ask for a 1 on the sides tapered up to a 2 on the top and thin it out.  Make sure the do the outlining and the back can be square or tapered.  With those instructions most barbershop/hair places will do an alright job. 

Now if I could only get them to imporve on my good looks...


----------



## medicineman

To paraphrase Dr McCoy from Star Trek...they're only barbers, not plastic surgeons.

 ;D.

MM


----------



## hoop0024

Is there a hair length restriction for females?

My hair is quite long, and I start BMQ on Feb 4th, wondering if I need to see a guy about a chop before I go.


----------



## Occam

hoop0024 said:
			
		

> Is there a hair length restriction for females?
> 
> My hair is quite long, and I start BMQ on Feb 4th, wondering if I need to see a guy about a chop before I go.



http://cs.uwindsor.ca/~fitzpatr/A-DH-265-000.pdf

See page 2-2-4 under "Women".


----------



## hoop0024

Occam said:
			
		

> http://cs.uwindsor.ca/~fitzpatr/A-DH-265-000.pdf
> 
> See page 2-2-4 under "Women".


 Thanks a lot for linking this! Very helpful.  ;D


----------



## BlueJays1985

I have a Zack Brown meets Brian Wilson beard  :SOF: ... theyre gonna shave it arent they!? Or make me shave it?? Maybe I should decline the offer. Im awfully attached to this beard. Im gonna be in BMQ and look like a 12 year old.  :crybaby:


----------



## MikeL

108 Stitches said:
			
		

> theyre gonna shave it arent they!? Or make me shave it??




You're an adult, and you are physically/mentally able to take care of yourself.  Yes, you will have to shave your beard off unless you have a medical condition/have Medical staff give you a no shave chit.  If you do get a chit, you will have to keep the beard trimmed/within regulation.

Someone else will give you a hair cut though, so I hope you aren't overly attached to your hair style right now.



			
				108 Stitches said:
			
		

> Maybe I should decline the offer. Im awfully attached to this beard. Im gonna be in BMQ and look like a 12 year old.  :crybaby:



Are you serious, or just being melodramatic?


----------



## OldSolduer

108 Stitches said:
			
		

> Im awfully attached to this beard. Im gonna be in BMQ and look like a 12 year old.  :crybaby:v



Poor muffin   :crybaby:

Most recruits look like 12 year olds. You'll be in good company.


----------



## BlueJays1985

hahahaha! Im kidding. I would never turn down an opportunity of any size, nevermind an opportunity of this magnitude, for hair. hahahahaha
I like it, i feel like its part of my identity, but i'll be alright - just lookin for some moral support here fellas!


----------



## MikeL

108 Stitches said:
			
		

> hahahaha! Im kidding. I would never turn down an opportunity of any size, nevermind an opportunity of this magnitude, for hair. hahahahaha



So, you made the whole cry baby post for sh*ts n giggles?  Well, at least you aren't seriously having issues/self doubt over a shave...



			
				108 Stitches said:
			
		

> I like it, i feel like its part of my identity, but i'll be alright - just lookin for some moral support here fellas!



Moral support from strangers on a forum?  Perhaps you should look more towards family/friends for moral support.


----------



## mariomike

108 Stitches said:
			
		

> I like it, i feel like its part of my identity, but i'll be alright - just lookin for some moral support here fellas!



A nice song on the radio perhaps while they do it? < joke >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt6Te7KgSR4


----------



## BlueJays1985

Ha! Mariomike strikes again!! Im starting to think your not even a human being,,, just an entity that lurks in the cyber world waiting to strike with links to great information or comical relief.

Myman!! (bump)


----------



## Eye In The Sky

108 Stitches said:
			
		

> just lookin for some moral support here fellas!



About hair?

I think you were looking for this website then.   ;D


----------



## GAP

.


----------



## Sk94

I'm a 19 year old student looking to get into the reserves. I'm a Muslim who has decided to keep facial hair (not very long, this is exactly how it looks like and grows.







I love my religion as much as I love my country and am proud to look forward to serving a country that allows me practice my religion freely. 

Is having facial hair allowed?


----------



## Bassil_Inf

Good day,
The following post may or may not be beneficial in guiding you with an answer to your question: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13144.150


----------



## Sk94

Here actual pics


----------



## The Bread Guy

Sk94 - I see a merge coming shortly.

LOTS of info in the newly-merged topic for you to learn from.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## nn1988

Hello,

Information and material in this thread seems to be quite out-dated in relation to BMQ. I wanted to inquire if one is allowed to bring his(her) own set of clippers and buzz it during BMQ. I usually buzz 1/100 of an inch every 3 to 4 days and shave sideburns starting adjacent to the helix of the ear and everything under. Are hair clippers considered "edged weapons" because of their nature, albeit shaving kits?

Thanks


----------



## George Wallace

nn1988 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Information and material in this thread seems to be quite out-dated in relation to BMQ. I wanted to inquire if one is allowed to bring his(her) own set of clippers and buzz it during BMQ. I usually buzz 1/100 of an inch every 3 to 4 days and shave sideburns starting adjacent to the helix of the ear and everything under. Are hair clippers considered "edged weapons" because of their nature, albeit shaving kits?
> 
> Thanks




 :


----------



## brihard

nn1988 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Information and material in this thread seems to be quite out-dated in relation to BMQ. I wanted to inquire if one is allowed to bring his(her) own set of clippers and buzz it during BMQ. I usually buzz 1/100 of an inch every 3 to 4 days and shave sideburns starting adjacent to the helix of the ear and everything under. Are hair clippers considered "edged weapons" because of their nature, albeit shaving kits?
> 
> Thanks



1. It is not outdated whatsoever. We don't change our hair regs on a monthly rotational basis just to keep people guessing.

2. Clippers are not an edged weapon. They're hair clippers.

3. If you want to shave your head pretty much completely while on BMQ, fill your boots. You may or may not have time to care about such things. I'd advise that rather than worrying about that, get it nice and short before arrival, and get it cut nice and short again every two weeks. As long as it's within regs, you shouldn't be wasting time caring what your hair looks like while on BMQ. You'll have a hundred other things that are more pressing demands on your time.


----------



## nn1988

Brihard said:
			
		

> If you want to shave your head pretty much completely while on BMQ, fill your boots. You may or may not have time to care about such things. I'd advise that rather than worrying about that, get it nice and short before arrival, and get it cut nice and short again every two weeks. As long as it's within regs, you shouldn't be wasting time caring what your hair looks like while on BMQ. You'll have a hundred other things that are more pressing demands on your time.



Thanks for your input.


----------



## maha

Hair


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Thanks tips.

Here's a download for the full meal deal pdf you can keep.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v6igcz6jko0l6i/2011%20-%20A-DH-265-000-AG-001.pdf


----------



## vivelespatates

Sup all! 

First, i did search concerning facial hair. But i've read so many different answer and after talking to my recruiter and to some people i know who work in the CF, i would like to know what's the real thing.

Talking to most of the people, Facial hair is prohibited except if you have a paper from the doctor saying you got some skins problems. But, after taking to my recruiter, he told me that facial hair (Beard), is allowed for Navy and Air force, but for the Ground army (?? Not sure if this is the terme to use in english), it's not well seen to have a beard. He also told me that for my trade (HCA), it's okay to have a beard considering i would work in an office all day long. 

So what's the truth, can I got one or can't I. Do I can in every occasion, every field or just some. I mean, what's the real thing concerning this.! 

Thx!


----------



## dangerboy

I am sure there are many threads about this but here we go.  Info from the CF Dress manual:



> (3) Beards (see Figure 2-2-2) (3) Barbe (voir figure 2-2-2)
> (a) Subject to procedures established
> by commanders of commands,
> permission to wear a beard shall
> only be granted to all ranks who
> wear the naval uniform, wherever
> serving; all ranks on strength of an
> infantry pioneer platoon; adherents
> of the Sikh religion (see Section 3);
> and personnel, on the direction of a
> medical officer, subject to medical
> reassessment at intervals not
> exceeding six months. Other
> personnel shall shave off their
> beards.
> 
> (b) Where beards are authorized, they
> shall be worn with a moustache;
> kept neatly trimmed, especially on
> the lower neck and cheekbones;
> and not exceed 2.5 cm (1 in.) in
> bulk.
> 
> (c) When a beard is grown or removed,
> identification documents shall be
> replaced in accordance with
> security regulations


----------



## CombatDoc

Unless you are Navy, beards are typically not permitted in the Air Force or Army (sauf vous etes R22R ;D, et comme ASSAN, vous ne feriez pas partie des Van Doos).


----------



## vivelespatates

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> Unless you are Navy, beards are typically not permitted in the Air Force or Army (sauf vous etes R22R ;D, et comme ASSAN, vous ne feriez pas partie des Van Doos).



Thx! 

Then I'll call tomorrow to change my choice from Air Force to Navy!


----------



## The_Falcon

dangerboy said:
			
		

> I am sure there are many threads about this but here we go.  Info from the CF Dress manual:



Yup and locked


----------



## SarahRad

What are the regulations regarding female pixie cuts? As long as there aren't strange undercuts or super long on the top, would they be fine, like a short bob that doesn't reach past the collar? Or would I have to adhere to the men's standards?


----------



## X2012

Go see the dress regs above for the specifics, but the short answer is yes pixie cuts are fine and are not required to meet the male standards and bobs that don't go past the bottom edge (I believe) of the collar don't need to be up in a bun. I have a pixie cut and I really like it because I don't need to worry about it, and unlike a bob it doesn't get in my face. With either, you want to make sure it looks professional, the regs state something to the effect of 'no outrageous or bizarre' styles, and it can't get in the way of wearing your headdress.

Hope that helps, but look in the dress regs for the complete rules.


----------



## PMedMoe

SarahRad said:
			
		

> What are the regulations regarding female pixie cuts? As long as there aren't strange undercuts or super long on the top, would they be fine, like a short bob that doesn't reach past the collar? Or would I have to adhere to the men's standards?



Like these? 







  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Both acceptable.


----------



## SarahRad

Okay, thank you!


----------



## PMedMoe

Just don't have the hair long enough to hang in your eyes.  Or if it is, brush it or pin it back.


----------



## ohhenry5150

I have a question about my hair for BMQ. 

In the Canadian Forces Dress Instruction  under the 'Hair' heading, it says that "Hair on the head shall be neatly groomed
and conservatively styled". I am a girl who currently has hair that could _technically_ be a mohawk as the center bit is longer than the sides, but the difference in length between the two is not a lot and my hair is quite short almost buzzed on the sides). Is it still conservative if there isn't a lot of difference in length between the sides and the "mohawk", or will I most likely have to cut the back bit off. 

Thanks.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

When in doubt, play it safe. 

I mean, you really can grow your hair out after BMQ, right? Bite the bullet and avoid any points of contention on anything.


----------



## ohhenry5150

Thanks Buzz 

 I figured that's what it would come to, just thought I'd double check!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

If it isn't quite what they want on your course, a trip to one of the barbers in the Mega will fix that.   

When I went thru *BMQ* we (males) all the had EXACT same haircut.  And it looked pretty much like this.

 ;D


----------



## ohhenry5150

Hahahaha  ;D

I'm hoping to skip the sad shaving-of-the-head montage and move straight to the I-prepared-my-hair montage!


----------



## Bzzliteyr

ohhenry5150, get it out of the way before the course and it will alleviate and anxiety or pressure once on the course. 

The more you can do before (haircut, physical fitness, ensuring you have all the kit as per the list they give) the less stress you'll have running around trying to find everything you need with instructors "encouraging" you.


----------



## ohhenry5150

I have definitely been doing anything and everything I can to prep. I got laid off recently so I have a lot of time for exercise and preparation! I've even been filling my hiking backpack with around 70 lbs of 2 liter bottles of water and going on walks with it. Like I said....there is a lot of time in my day now!


----------



## TCM621

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> If it isn't quite what they want on your course, a trip to one of the barbers in the Mega will fix that.
> 
> When I went thru *BMQ* we (males) all the had EXACT same haircut.  And it looked pretty much like this.
> 
> ;D


I got a Mohawk at the barbershop in the mega. I was pissed. I looked at the marching NCO and "I am not getting in shit for this". Luckily, we were far enough along in the course, he just laughed and I only had to put up with them making fun of my hair for two weeks. 

Good times. But generally speaking, military barber can be counted on for regulation hair cuts.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> I got a Mohawk at the barbershop in the mega. I was pissed. I looked at the marching NCO and "I am not getting in shit for this". Luckily, we were far enough along in the course, he just laughed and I only had to put up with them making fun of my hair for two weeks.
> 
> Good times. But generally speaking, military barber can be counted on for regulation hair cuts.



Flight 69, you are clear for landing!  ;D


----------



## SingingPilot

*ignore* Just realised this is "HAIR regulations" topic. My bad.

I've been looking for posts regarding males and ear piercings (I'm thinking of just getting a small stud for each ear) and it seems that the topic has not been touched on yet. I know there's the dress reg, but I don't think it had anything specific for males and ear piercings. Just that you can wear one in uniform, unless you're a female. I'm planning on becoming a Pilot, if that makes a difference.

Also, (and this is a concern that has been brought up by my civilian supervisor), it is not likely that my opportunities for advancement in the Forces be affected because I have piercing scars on my ears, right (provided already that I don't wear earrings on duty and in uniform)? I'm thinking that, if somewhere down the road, a superior officer did not agree with the piercings or even the scars that were left by them, it wouldn't affect my advancement? I'm pretty sure I know the answer (which is a definite "no". It's discrimination) but being the Pilot in Forces (fighter, specifically) is something that I've been working on for a LONG TIME now and I don't want a small, seemingly minor, decision put a halt to my plans in my career.

Cheers  ;D


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Ear rings are more common now on male CAF members then when I joined (1989).

My suggestion is to get small gold hoops - then you will always have somewhere to hang your Oakleys from;  it's frowned upon to wear them on the back of your head in some circles.

 ;D


----------



## Bzzliteyr

But diamond studs are much flashier... we're talking about a future pilot here.


----------



## ModlrMike

SingingPilot said:
			
		

> *ignore* Just realised this is "HAIR regulations" topic. My bad.
> 
> I've been looking for posts regarding males and ear piercings (I'm thinking of just getting a small stud for each ear) and it seems that the topic has not been touched on yet. I know there's the dress reg, but I don't think it had anything specific for males and ear piercings. Just that you can wear one in uniform, unless you're a female. I'm planning on becoming a Pilot, if that makes a difference.



Here's the content directly from the Dress Instructions (page 2-2-)



> 7. Male personnel shall not wear earrings or ear-sleepers on the ears while in uniform or on duty in civilian clothes. When wearing civilian clothes off duty, jewellery and accessories will preserve a conservative, disciplined, professional appearance. See also paragraphs 1. and 3.



Further amplification from para 9



> 9.
> Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing.
> As of April 1st, 2004, members are not to acquire any tattoos that are visible on the head, neck, chest or ears when an open collared shirt is worn. Additionally, members shall not acquire visible tattoos that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design) or otherwise reflect discredit on the CF. Visible and non-visible body piercing adornments, with the exception of women’s earrings and ear sleepers described in sub-paragraph 6.a., shall not be worn by members either in uniform or on duty in civilian clothing. The meaning of the term “on duty”, for purposes of dress and appearance, is Interpreted in Chapter 1, paragraph 20.



So, no ear rings, sleepers, studs etc for males. Seems pretty clear to me. Your choice of occupation has no bearing on the issue. 



			
				SingingPilot said:
			
		

> Also, (and this is a concern that has been brought up by my civilian supervisor), it is not likely that my opportunities for advancement in the Forces be affected because I have piercing scars on my ears, right (provided already that I don't wear earrings on duty and in uniform)? I'm thinking that, if somewhere down the road, a superior officer did not agree with the piercings or even the scars that were left by them, it wouldn't affect my advancement? I'm pretty sure I know the answer (which is a definite "no". It's discrimination) but being the Pilot in Forces (fighter, specifically) is something that I've been working on for a LONG TIME now and I don't want a small, seemingly minor, decision put a halt to my plans in my career.
> 
> Cheers  ;D



Nobody is going to care about your scars, unless they're self inflicted such as those done in scarification, or through self harm.


----------



## SingingPilot

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> But diamond studs are much flashier... we're talking about a future pilot here.



HAHA That's awesome. I ain't even mad. LOL

Cheers, ModlrMike


----------



## ShawnCameron

I have my kids initials on my neck. I can't honestly see this being a problem. Am I wrong??


----------



## mariomike

ShawnCameron said:
			
		

> I have my kids initials on my neck. I can't honestly see this being a problem. Am I wrong??



Tattoos?

Check here.

Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/869.325



			
				SingingPilot said:
			
		

> Just realised this is "HAIR regulations" topic. My bad.



 ;D


----------



## ShawnCameron

Hair forum.. yeah yeah. I have hair on my neck. 
So my neck tattoo should be fine. It's visible yet not offensive. If selected, I'm not permitted to get anymore on my neck/face. Have to rethink my Tyson tribal tattoo then.  Thanks for your response.


----------



## George Wallace

ShawnCameron said:
			
		

> I have my kids initials on my neck. I can't honestly see this being a problem. Am I wrong??



Well.......It may all depend on what you have named your kids and what those initials may spell out.   >


----------



## quicksilver123

Hey,

I was wondering if Mohawks (shorter than 2 inches) are permissable after basic


----------



## George Wallace

quicksilver123 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> 
> I was wondering if Mohawks (shorter than 2 inches) are permissable after basic





			
				wulfzbane said:
			
		

> so i have a mohawk.. would that be considered acceptable or would i have to shave it all off







			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> You'll be losing it.


----------



## OldSolduer

quicksilver123 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> 
> I was wondering if Mohawks (shorter than 2 inches) are permissable after basic



In case you aren't clear.....NO.


----------



## mariomike

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> In case you aren't clear.....NO.



Mohawk-style hair regulation seems to be a popular Q and A in this thread:  
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&q=site:army.ca+mohawk+hair+regulations&ei=ZFVGVbLeO8b3yQT09IHYBg#rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&q=site:army.ca+mohawk+%22CF+Hair+Regulations%22+


----------



## M16LR.50

Sorry for reviving this old thread. I am planning to join the reserve force out of love for this country and a conviction to do more with my life. I have been trying to gather information on whether or not I will be allowed to maintain my hair (on religious/cultural grounds). I have seen in this thread mention of beards being allowed on that basis, in accommodation of Muslim and Sikh members, and long / braided hair accommodation for men where native. I am not from any of those groups... But have dreadlocks which are a significant part of my cultural heritage and beliefs. 

Will I still be forced to cut my hair in BMQ or otherwise?


----------



## George Wallace

I am curious.  What religion exposes that its followers wear dreadlocks?

You don't necessarily have to have dreadlocks to be a Rastafarian.


----------



## M16LR.50

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I am curious.  What religion exposes that its followers wear dreadlocks?
> 
> You don't necessarily have to have dreadlocks to be a Rastafarian.


Yes, that is correct for the most part. However, dreadlocks, respected and symbolic of one's crown is pivotal to most of the pillars/mansions of Rastafari. Additionally, culturally our locks form part of our identity that both aligns and differentiates our heritage in the context of Jamaican culture....

My question though is how this fits in with our Canadian culture agnostic way of life, within the strict and structured environment of the army. I've outlined the bits above that I can garner from this thread and others, as it applies to some other groups. I have not found anything that applies to my situation.


----------



## dangerboy

To cut to the chase you will have to cut your hair, the only authorized departures from "standard military haircuts" are for those service personnel that are Aboriginal members or adherents of the Sikh Religion.


----------



## M16LR.50

dangerboy said:
			
		

> To cut to the chase you will have to cut your hair, the only authorized departures from "standard military haircuts" are for those service personnel that are Aboriginal members or adherents of the Sikh Religion.


This is what I wanted to know. Thanks. 

How are Sikh members accommodated? I assume turbans are a no no (obvious safety/gear issues)... Do they have to cut their hair to a length that fits safely in their head gear?


----------



## dangerboy

M16LR.50 said:
			
		

> This is what I wanted to know. Thanks.
> 
> How are Sikh members accommodated? I assume turbans are a no no (obvious safety/gear issues)... Do they have to cut their hair to a length that fits safely in their head gear?



From the CF Dress Manual:
SIKHS SIKHS
14. A CF member who is an adherent of the
Sikh religion (Keshadharis) shall wear CF pattern
uniforms and adhere to standard CF dress policy
and instructions, with the following exceptions:

a. Hair and beard shall remain uncut, provided
that the operational mission and safety is
not jeopardized when it is required that the
member wear occupational and operational
equipment such as gas masks, oxygen
masks, combat/vehicle/flying helmets, hard
hats, scuba masks, etc. When a hazard
clearly exists, the hair and/or beard shall be
modified to the degree necessary for
wearing the required equipment.

b. In addition to uncut hair, four other symbolic
requirements of the Sikh religion are
authorized for wear by both male and
female members (see paragraph 16.), with
all orders of dress. Should a conflict arise
between the requirement to wear safety or
operational items of clothing and equipment
and these religious symbols, the manner
and location of wearing these symbols be adjusted. Unit commanders retain the
right to order the manner of this adjustment
as necessary to meet valid safety and
operational requirements.

c. A turban shall be worn by male members
with ceremonial, mess, service dress.
Turbans shall also be worn with
occupational and operational dress, subject
to the safety and operational considerations
noted in sub-paragraph a., above. When
engaged in combat operations, operational
training or when serving with peacekeeping
or multinational contingents, adherents of
the Sikh religion shall, when deemed
essential, cover their head with a patka or
other customary clothing item (see
paragraph 21.), over which they shall wear
the headdress (including combat helmets)
and other items of military equipment as
ordered by the commanding officer.


----------



## M16LR.50

dangerboy said:
			
		

> From the CF Dress Manual:
> SIKHS SIKHS
> 14. A CF member who is an adherent of the
> Sikh religion (Keshadharis) shall wear CF pattern
> uniforms and adhere to standard CF dress policy
> and instructions, with the following exceptions:
> 
> a. Hair and beard shall remain uncut, provided
> that the operational mission and safety is
> not jeopardized when it is required that the
> member wear occupational and operational
> equipment such as gas masks, oxygen
> masks, combat/vehicle/flying helmets, hard
> hats, scuba masks, etc. When a hazard
> clearly exists, the hair and/or beard shall be
> modified to the degree necessary for
> wearing the required equipment.
> 
> b. In addition to uncut hair, four other symbolic
> requirements of the Sikh religion are
> authorized for wear by both male and
> female members (see paragraph 16.), with
> all orders of dress. Should a conflict arise
> between the requirement to wear safety or
> operational items of clothing and equipment
> and these religious symbols, the manner
> and location of wearing these symbols be adjusted. Unit commanders retain the
> right to order the manner of this adjustment
> as necessary to meet valid safety and
> operational requirements.
> 
> c. A turban shall be worn by male members
> with ceremonial, mess, service dress.
> Turbans shall also be worn with
> occupational and operational dress, subject
> to the safety and operational considerations
> noted in sub-paragraph a., above. When
> engaged in combat operations, operational
> training or when serving with peacekeeping
> or multinational contingents, adherents of
> the Sikh religion shall, when deemed
> essential, cover their head with a patka or
> other customary clothing item (see
> paragraph 21.), over which they shall wear
> the headdress (including combat helmets)
> and other items of military equipment as
> ordered by the commanding officer.


I see. Well thank you for the quick and to-the-point replies.


----------



## Dab22

So I just joined my reserve unit and was told I need to get a haircut. I got one 4 weeks ago and I'm wondering if I can hold off 2 weeks as I have a wedding I want to get it cut for and instead get the sides and back cleaned up for cheaper then get a haircut fully in two weeks. I know my length on top is way below 6 inches but they said it's too long? As well how long can my sides be? They're probably at a #3 right now. 

I'm not trying to cheat the system just would like to not have to get 2 haircuts in 3 weeks.


----------



## Pusser

If you've been told you need a haircut, then you need a haircut.  Waiting two weeks is likely not an option unless you don't plan on attending any unit training or other activities in the interim.  If you get it cut really short now, it may not need another one for the wedding.

#3 is seldom short enough under any circumstances.

Years ago there was an (eccentric) admiral who went to the Dockyard Barber every day so no one could ever criticize his haircut.  Then there was a Commander of the Army who seemingly seldom saw a barber and his haircut was always criticized.

I'm sure you will find that your Coxswain/SWO?Sgt Major will be sympathetic with your plight, so you could always plead your case with them.   [


----------



## runormal

6 weeks is isanse, I'll get a 0 or 1 and find  I'm hard pressed to get 3 maybe 4 weeks out of a haircut. 

Like Pusser said, if someone said get a hair cut, get a hair cut. Don't be a problem child, especially over $15.


----------



## BinRat55

runormal said:
			
		

> 6 weeks is isanse, I'll get a 0 or 1 and find  I'm hard pressed to get 3 maybe 4 weeks out of a haircut.
> 
> Like Pusser said, if someone said get a hair cut, get a hair cut. Don't be a problem child, especially over $15.



Insane to say the least! I have never gone more than 2 weeks - on tour, on course, on leave, on exercise - ever! Just the statement "I only got one 4 weeks ago..." makes me quiver. 

Dab - please just get a haicut. Pusser said it best - if you have been told to do something, do it. Not doing something you have been told to do will cost you a heck of a lot more than a haircut in the end!


----------



## runormal

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Insane to say the least! I have never gone more than 2 weeks - on tour, on course, on leave, on exercise - ever! Just the statement "I only got one 4 weeks ago..." makes me quiver.
> 
> Dab - please just get a haicut. Pusser said it best - if you have been told to do something, do it. Not doing something you have been told to do will cost you a heck of a lot more than a haircut in the end!



I should clarify I don't work every day/weekend  8). The 4 week would only ever be hit, if I wasn't working and if the weekend before that I was going into the field. Usually every 2 maybe 2.5 weeks but if I'm working consistently anything over that is pushing it.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

What's wrong with a #3?  I've gotten #3 before.  In the winter when is colder, I usually go with #3, and get it cut every pay day.   

The dress regs lay out the acceptable standard; whatever it says in there is what you need to go by.


----------



## Lumber

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Insane to say the least! I have never gone more than 2 weeks - on tour, on course, on leave, on exercise - ever! Just the statement "I only got one 4 weeks ago..." makes me quiver.



You should see the mops on peoples heads lately. There was even an entry in one of the most recent RCN Dress Comittee Minutes that spoke of the concern over hair cuts in the Navy: "whereas some are shaving the side of their head, yet letting the top portion to the maximum length allowed by regulation in the Dress Instruction manual."


----------



## Journeyman

runormal said:
			
		

> I should clarify I don't work every day/weekend


No problem then;  if your hair doesn't grow outside of duty hours, you should be fine.    :nod:


       :facepalm:


----------



## Remius

Lumber said:
			
		

> You should see the mops on peoples heads lately. There was even an entry in one of the most recent RCN Dress Comittee Minutes that spoke of the concern over hair cuts in the Navy: "whereas some are shaving the side of their head, yet letting the top portion to the maximum length allowed by regulation in the Dress Instruction manual."



The dress regs adresses that issue.  Specifically this part:   _gradually decreasing to blend with the taper-trimmed sides and back _ 

Those hitler youth haircuts are not regulation cuts and need to be corrected.  This has also come up in the army and it was noted that the rules cover this.


----------



## dimsum

Remius said:
			
		

> The dress regs adresses that issue.  Specifically this part:   _gradually decreasing to blend with the taper-trimmed sides and back _
> 
> Those hitler youth haircuts are not regulation cuts and need to be corrected.  This has also come up in the army and it was noted that the rules cover this.



I'm pretty sure this can be blamed on Brad Pitt's hair in Fury - the undercut is "cool" again.


----------



## Lumber

Dimsum said:
			
		

> ...the undercut is "cool" again.



Damn right it is.


----------



## dimsum

I guy I worked with was told to get a haircut.  He did, but told the barber "I'd like a haircut that makes it look like I didn't have a haircut."


----------



## AbdullahD

Now this is interesting, as a Muslim it is obligatory for me to have a beard and yet the exception is only made for Sikhs. I am referring to page 2-2-2/3 of the canadian forces dress regulations.

I just assumed it was allowed to have a beard for religous reasons, I will now have to check in on this. Just wanted to post my suprise here.

Abdullah

p.s i figured i didnt need to link to the booklet


----------



## dimsum

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Now this is interesting, as a Muslim it is obligatory for me to have a beard and yet the exception is only made for Sikhs. I am referring to page 2-2-2/3 of the canadian forces dress regulations.
> 
> I just assumed it was allowed to have a beard for religous reasons, I will now have to check in on this. Just wanted to post my suprise here.
> 
> Abdullah
> 
> p.s i figured i didnt need to link to the booklet



It's been noted in this thread and others, but the exemption doesn't apply if it affects safety (gas mask, firefighting equipment, aircrew oxygen, etc.)


----------



## Loachman

I've known Muslim men who've worn beards, and Muslim women who've worn hijabs, while serving.


----------



## armyvern

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Now this is interesting, as a Muslim it is obligatory for me to have a beard and yet the exception is only made for Sikhs. I am referring to page 2-2-2/3 of the canadian forces dress regulations.
> 
> I just assumed it was allowed to have a beard for religous reasons, I will now have to check in on this. Just wanted to post my suprise here.
> 
> Abdullah
> 
> p.s i figured i didnt need to link to the booklet



Have you attempted to just submit a memo outling your request and reason for wear - Religious requirements?

Just curious.  Perhaps the dress regs are not covering this item for Muslims because, as far as I am aware, not all Muslims are required to wear beards unlike Sikhs who are all required to do so?

Vern


----------



## AbdullahD

Dimsum said:
			
		

> It's been noted in this thread and others, but the exemption doesn't apply if it affects safety (gas mask, firefighting equipment, aircrew oxygen, etc.)



Thanks for the quick reply, but i think you misunderstood me. ill try to clarify. 

As a Muslim it is obligatory for me to keep a beard,  the only exception being for health or to save my life. Now the general exception exists for Sikhs, but I cant see the same for other religious groups.

So am I missing the information in the dress manual, or are only sikhs excluded from the rule. I hope that is better.

I have not submitted a request yet, I'm just fact checking. It is required for all Muslim men to have beards no exception aside from those noted.

Abdulla4


----------



## Remius

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Now this is interesting, as a Muslim it is obligatory for me to have a beard and yet the exception is only made for Sikhs. I am referring to page 2-2-2/3 of the canadian forces dress regulations.
> 
> I just assumed it was allowed to have a beard for religous reasons, I will now have to check in on this. Just wanted to post my suprise here.
> 
> Abdullah
> 
> p.s i figured i didnt need to link to the booklet



Abdullah, are you sure that the muslim faith makes beards mandatory?  I say this because there is a lot of contradictory information out there.  The Quran does not state it but apparently Mohammed encouraged it.  Historically to differentiate one from a pagan or a women, and because Mohammed said so.  

There is a difference between mandatory and strongly encouraged.  

We ran into a few cases and we just referred the issue to the CAF Padre office to ensure we were in compliance with reasonable accomodation.  This is why there is likely no provision within the CAF whereas for Sikhs it is a religious requirement.

Article here on the subject.  http://www.bbc.com/news/10369726

Like for Catholics and eating fish on fridays.  Encouraged but not obligatory.  Just depends on how personally devout you want to be.


----------



## AbdullahD

Remius said:
			
		

> Abdullah, are you sure that the muslim faith makes beards mandatory?  I say this because there is a lot of contradictory information out there.  The Quran does not state it but apparently Mohammed encouraged it.  Historically to differentiate one from a pagan or a women, and because Mohammed said so.
> 
> There is a difference between mandatory and strongly encouraged.
> 
> We ran into a few cases and we just referred the issue to the CAF Padre office to ensure we were in compliance with reasonable accomodation.  This is why there is likely no provision within the CAF whereas for Sikhs it is a religious requirement.
> 
> Article here on the subject.  http://www.bbc.com/news/10369726
> 
> Like for Catholics and eating fish on fridays.  Encouraged but not obligatory.  Just depends on how personally devout you want to be.



I am 110% sure, no if and or buts. period.

If you need proof, ill post many fatwas after juma.

Abdullah


----------



## armyvern

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> I am 110% sure, no if and or buts. period.
> 
> If you need proof, ill post many fatwas after juma.
> 
> Abdullah



I'm curious as to whether or not the Quran actually addresses the issue.

I understand that Muslim leaders issue Fatwas, just as the Pope makes statements (Bible is the rule of law for Christians - even then, some more strictly than others), but you've really got me curious now as I have 2 male Muslim friends and both do their prayers, but neither sports a beard (and not due to the reasons you gave earlier either).


----------



## Remius

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm curious as to whether or not the Quran actually addresses the issue.
> 
> I understand that Muslim leaders issue Fatwas, just as the Pope makes statements (Bible is the rule of law for Christians - even then, some more strictly than others), but you've really got me curious now as I have 2 male Muslim friends and both do their prayers, but neither sports a beard (and not due to the reasons you gave earlier either).



Vern, we had a similar issue and a request for accomodation was sent up and in that particular case growing a beard was not deemed mandatory (it may have been a sect thing or what not).   I suspect it is a case by case basis because of the the varying contradictions from scholars and religious leaders.  Which likely explains why the dress manual does not permissively set a rule for Muslims.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

From my understanding and from talking to my neighbours who are Muslim,



> The Prophet Muhammad had a beard and he ordered the Muslims of the time to grow one too. Back then it was important for Muslims to look different than the Pagans for their security and the beard served as an identification element of a Muslim.
> 
> Also, the beard served as a new tradition that helped the newly-converted Muslims give up on the Pagan traditions they grew up with.
> 
> Muslims of today grow a beard by choice because it was a Sunnah (tradition) of every one of Gods prophets and messengers that was sent. From Adam, Noah, Lot, Abraham, Islamil, Isreal, David, Moses, Jesus, Muahmmad etc. In doing so they are emulating the best of mankind and those who were the most obedient to God all mighty.
> 
> Further more growing a beard earns Muslims a steady residual supply of good deeds, in particular when they are following the tradition of the final Prophet Muhammad  as a sign of faithfulness.
> 
> However, it is not mandatory for Muslim men to grow a beard and failure to grow one is not a sin of sorts.





			
				AbdullahD said:
			
		

> I am 110% sure, no if and or buts. period.
> 
> If you need proof, ill post many fatwas after juma.
> 
> Abdullah



I would like to hear your take on this Is the beard fard or just a Sunnah?


----------



## Nfld Sapper

A point of order, let's not degrade this thread to the point that most of it has to be binned... :nod:

MILNET.CA MENTOR


----------



## AbdullahD

Beards

http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/18364

https://islamqa.info/en/6657

http://www.tafseer-raheemi.com/q-is-it-permissible-to-trim-the-beard/

http://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifeddine-M/1619_30-05-2011/1)-the-beard-.-sunnah-or-wajib%3F.html

I think these four website are sufficient to establish a beard is mandatory. The length of beard does have some iktilaf between the ulema (to my knowledge), so that is a separate issue.

Now regarding if it is mandatory or just strongly encouraged. it is Wajib, which means it is a commandment from God tbrough our prophet.  

A few of the degrees of importance are in this link http://www.thekhalids.org/index.php/newsletter-archive/995-islamic-wisdom-fard-wajib-sunnah-makrooh-mustahab-mubah-haram

Now for not finding this issue in the Quran, that does not invalidate it. In the Quran you will find passages close to the meaning to follow the prophet and his sunnah (how he acted). So to do that we need evidences of what his Sunnah is and we use hadiths to find that out. If you can find a collection of sahih bukhari or sahih Muslim you will find many ahhadiths showing the beard is wajib. 

We as layman should not issue rulings on what permitted or not. Ulema ikram must take all hadiths and the Quran into consideration when they issue a fatwa and must understand who he (the prophet) told it to and why and where and what those listening got from it and how he clarified etc etc etc. Something those of us with little knowledge can not do.

Now seeing from other replys, even if the armed forces does not generally allow Muslims to have beard... i can still apply for an exception. So ill go talk to the unit and apply for an exception if I have too. (im recovering from runners knee right now, so im a little behind the curve here)

Also guys, If a Muslim does not know a beard is wajib. the sin is much much less on him, so dont take this explanation and show your Muslim buddies and be like "grow a beard!". Islam demands wisdom and throwing fatawas at people who can not implement them is not wisdom, it is opression. Also as a last note this is the majority position, im sure some small sect or what have you says beards are not wajib but 90% of Ulema say it is obligatory.

Abdullah

p.s maybe for Islamic questions just pm me so we dont derail this thread.


----------



## armyvern

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Beards
> 
> http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/18364
> 
> https://islamqa.info/en/6657
> 
> http://www.tafseer-raheemi.com/q-is-it-permissible-to-trim-the-beard/
> 
> http://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifeddine-M/1619_30-05-2011/1)-the-beard-.-sunnah-or-wajib%3F.html
> 
> I think these four website are sufficient to establish a beard is mandatory. The length of beard does have some iktilaf between the ulema (to my knowledge), so that is a separate issue.
> 
> Now regarding if it is mandatory or just strongly encouraged. it is Wajib, which means it is a commandment from God tbrough our prophet.
> 
> A few of the degrees of importance are in this link http://www.thekhalids.org/index.php/newsletter-archive/995-islamic-wisdom-fard-wajib-sunnah-makrooh-mustahab-mubah-haram
> 
> Now for not finding this issue in the Quran, that does not invalidate it. In the Quran you will find passages close to the meaning to follow the prophet and his sunnah (how he acted). So to do that we need evidences of what his Sunnah is and we use hadiths to find that out. If you can find a collection of sahih bukhari or sahih Muslim you will find many ahhadiths showing the beard is wajib.
> 
> We as layman should not issue rulings on what permitted or not. Ulema ikram must take all hadiths and the Quran into consideration when they issue a fatwa and must understand who he (the prophet) told it to and why and where and what those listening got from it and how he clarified etc etc etc. Something those of us with little knowledge can not do.
> 
> Now seeing from other replys, even if the armed forces does not generally allow Muslims to have beard... i can still apply for an exception. So ill go talk to the unit and apply for an exception if I have too. (im recovering from runners knee right now, so im a little behind the curve here)
> 
> Also guys, If a Muslim does not know a beard is wajib. the sin is much much less on him, so dont take this explanation and show your Muslim buddies and be like "grow a beard!". Islam demands wisdom and throwing fatawas at people who can not implement them is not wisdom, it is opression. Also as a last note this is the majority position, im sure some small sect or what have you says beards are not wajib but 90% of Ulema say it is obligatory.
> 
> Abdullah
> 
> p.s maybe for Islamic questions just pm me so we dont derail this thread.



Thank you!


----------



## Loachman

The first serving Sikh that I ever knew (mid-1970s) did not wear a beard or a turban (even before joining), but that would be personal choice and one presumes that some, as in all faiths, are more and less devout than others. Many military personnel from Muslim countries do not wear beards.


----------



## Pusser

I have known many Muslims from several different countries and many of them do not wear beards.  Some of them were very well educated and devout so I am not convinced that the wearing of a beard is a universal requirement of Islam.  

I have also known several Sikhs who have served in the military.  Only one of the ones I've known in the CF chose to wear a turban and then, it was only early on in his career.  Later on, he removed the turban and shaved.  So, I'm also not convinced that wearing a beard is an absolute requirement of the Sikh faith.  In fact, when the Metro Toronto Police approved the wearing of turbans back in the 80s, the Toronto Star ran an article where they consulted with both Sikh scholars and some Sikh officers then already serving on the Metro force.  The scholars said it was not an absolute requirement (although strongly encouraged) and the then serving officers stated that they did intend to grow beards and start wearing turbans, despite the fact that they could have.

If you like beards though, join the Navy.  We like beards!   [


----------



## kratz

It took some time for my D9 to track down a previous male Muslim individual who worked for her. 
At no time did he ever expect, ask for or request the ability for accommodation in the 
dress regulations of think he should due to his beliefs. The CoC did acknowledge his unique needs
during Ramadan, but that is ancillary to this discussion.


----------



## AbdullahD

Pusser said:
			
		

> I have known many Muslims from several different countries and many of them do not wear beards.  Some of them were very well educated and devout so I am not convinced that the wearing of a beard is a universal requirement of Islam.
> 
> I have also known several Sikhs who have served in the military.  Only one of the ones I've known in the CF chose to wear a turban and then, it was only early on in his career.  Later on, he removed the turban and shaved.  So, I'm also not convinced that wearing a beard is an absolute requirement of the Sikh faith.  In fact, when the Metro Toronto Police approved the wearing of turbans back in the 80s, the Toronto Star ran an article where they consulted with both Sikh scholars and some Sikh officers then already serving on the Metro force.  The scholars said it was not an absolute requirement (although strongly encouraged) and the then serving officers stated that they did intend to grow beards and start wearing turbans, despite the fact that they could have.
> 
> If you like beards though, join the Navy.  We like beards!   [



I know extremely devout and educated Muslims who do not have beards, but they understand it is wajib. Everyone has varying levels of devotion, I may not show up to Mosque for every prayer, but the beard issue is a make or break it issue for me. If you can tell me what type of Muslims they were I will give you a relevant ruling, be theh Hanbali, shafi, Maliki, Hanafi, Twelver, Salafi, Quranist etc. 

I dont expect the Armed forces to do everything to accommodate me, I just expect my religious identity be allowed to stay intact and by previous posts I see that is not an issue. Which made me extremely happy, if I option in to go fight daesh or what have you and they tell me I need to shave my beard for gas masks or any other safety reason I will and then once that safety reason is passed I'll regrow it. Besides I'd probably be a magnet for daesh fighters with an Islamic beard 

Abdullah


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Pusser said:
			
		

> I have known many Muslims from several different countries and many of them do not wear beards.  Some of them were very well educated and devout so I am not convinced that the wearing of a beard is a universal requirement of Islam.
> 
> I have also known several Sikhs who have served in the military.  Only one of the ones I've known in the CF chose to wear a turban and then, it was only early on in his career.  Later on, he removed the turban and shaved.  So, I'm also not convinced that wearing a beard is an absolute requirement of the Sikh faith.  In fact, when the Metro Toronto Police approved the wearing of turbans back in the 80s, the Toronto Star ran an article where they consulted with both Sikh scholars and some Sikh officers then already serving on the Metro force.  The scholars said it was not an absolute requirement (although strongly encouraged) and the then serving officers stated that they did intend to grow beards and start wearing turbans, despite the fact that they could have.
> 
> If you like beards though, join the Navy.  We like beards!   [



What they were speaking of is the Five Kakaars. One of which is uncut hair. To be considered a Khalsa or "Pure" you must adopt the five Kakaars including uncut hair. 

The Sikhs have a very noble and warrior heritage, their beliefs give exception to those that are of warrior professions such as Soldiers, Police Officers etc. that they are not exiled because of requirements to shave or cut hair.


----------



## jitterbug

I am curious what people think of the current hairstyle regulations and how they appear (to me) to pertain mostly to Caucasian males and females.  I have not seen any pictures of ethnic hair styles in the manual.  If you look at the pictures displaying the permitted hairstyles there is nothing portraying more ethnic style haircuts (ie. dreadlocks, cornrows and others.)

I would suggest that the manual and regs be altered in order to promote more ethnic hairstyles while still having a professional appearance while in uniform.  Hairstyles can be an important cultural identifier and the CF should promote these types of things as they do with Aboriginal people and their long/braided hair.

What do you think about the current regs and do you feel they are representative of all or most cultural/ethnic based hair styles?


----------



## armyvern

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I am curious what people think of the current hairstyle regulations and how they appear (to me) to pertain mostly to Caucasian males and females.  I have not seen any pictures of ethnic hair styles in the manual.  If you look at the pictures displaying the permitted hairstyles there is nothing portraying more ethnic style haircuts (ie. dreadlocks, cornrows and others.)
> 
> I would suggest that the manual and regs be altered in order to promote more ethnic hairstyles while still having a professional appearance while in uniform.  Hairstyles can be an important cultural identifier and the CF should promote these types of things as they do with Aboriginal people and their long/braided hair.
> 
> What do you think about the current regs and do you feel they are representative of all or most cultural/ethnic based hair styles?



Corn rows are allowed and there is a diagram. 

Good luck with the dreadlocks --- there's no diagram depicting that because they aren't allowed (nor are they "required as mandatory" by any religion, ethnicity or cultural group that I am aware of).   :

I'm a red head with freckles and of Irish descent what ethnic/cultural hairstyle should I choose?


----------



## Old Sweat

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm a red head with freckles and of Irish descent what ethnic/cultural hairstyle should I choose?



Answer at your peril!  >


----------



## Loachman

Merged. Next time, please search before starting another new thread.



			
				jitterbug said:
			
		

> I would suggest that the manual and regs be altered in order to promote more ethnic hairstyles while still having a professional appearance while in uniform.



CDS' e-mail address is freely available in the DWAN Outlook Address Book...


----------



## armyvern

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I am curious what people think of the current hairstyle regulations and how they appear (to me) to pertain mostly to Caucasian males and females.



^^^ That bit up there.  Current hairstyle regulations pertain to Caucasian males and females??  Really?  You just said that?  I'm sure there are a shit tonne of guys and gals, of the Caucasian persuasion, on these boards who would dearly love to be sporting the long hair down to their waist, tied back in a pony tail etc etc that you see all over Canadian Society.

A Caucasian ethnic haircut.  That's ripe.


----------



## George Wallace

jitterbug said:
			
		

> ......  Hairstyles can be an important cultural identifier



Sorry, but that is irrelevant.  There should only be three "cultural identifiers" in the CAF and they have NOTHING to do with hair.

Those three "cultural identifiers" which will identify you are:

1.  GREEN for Army;
2.  Dark Blue for Navy; and
3.  Light Blue for Air Force. 

Other than those three, there should be NO discriminating "cultural identifiers".  Even having those three, may be too many -- You are a member of the CAF or you are NOT.


----------



## jitterbug

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> ^^^ That bit up there.  Current hairstyle regulations pertain to Caucasian males and females??  Really?  You just said that?  I'm sure there are a crap tonne of guys and gals, of the Caucasian persuasion, on these boards who would dearly love to be sporting the long hair down to their waist, tied back in a pony tail etc etc that you see all over Canadian Society.
> 
> A Caucasian ethnic haircut.  That's ripe.



Basically what I'm saying is that the current regs don't appear to promote ethnic style haircuts.  Why shouldn't dreadlocks be authorized?  They can be done in a conservative manner.  I'm not saying people should have big nappy dreads or anything like that.  Dreadlocks are not a "mandatory" thing for the Rastafarian religion however many that practice wear dreadlocks as it is a culturally based style haircut.  Surely someone could alter the dress manual to include photos of ethnic styles and regs that promote more cultural diversity for haircuts.  

Secondly, braids only appear to be authorized for females and therefore males cannot wear cornrows.  I would also suggest they extend the wearing of earings to males.  Why should just females be allowed to wear earings?

I'm not saying lets open the floodgates for anything and everything but respecting diversity and promoting it should be at the forefront when designing policy in my opinion.  Change is good within reason.


----------



## mariomike

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm sure there are a shit tonne of guys and gals, of the Caucasian persuasion, on these boards who would dearly love to be sporting the long hair down to their waist, tied back in a pony tail etc etc that you see all over Canadian Society.



I dearly love watching it hit the floor.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sKlvOrBBPc
"Kiss me good-bye and write me while I'm gone..."


----------



## George Wallace

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I'm not saying lets open the floodgates for anything and everything but respecting diversity and promoting it should be at the forefront when designing policy in my opinion.  Change is good within reason.



It sure sounds like you want to open the floodgates.  Please go back and read what you posted if you don't believe me.


----------



## Eaglelord17

Our hair regulations already discriminate. They discriminate based on gender, race (natives can have ponytails), and religion. If anything instead of 'cultural' hairstyles, we should be moving towards a universal standard (much like the force test is expected to be). We all do the same job, therefore we all should be held to the same standard.


----------



## armyvern

Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> Our hair regulations already discriminate. They discriminate based on gender, race (natives can have ponytails), and religion. If anything instead of 'cultural' hairstyles, we should be moving towards a universal standard (much like the force test is expected to be). We all do the same job, therefore we all should be held to the same standard.



Correct:  But "Caucasian Hairstyles"??  That's what was said.  I know many native troops etc that do not wear their hair long and/or braided (male and female): apparently some would say they are wearing "Caucasion styles".They are wearing their hair the way they want to.


----------



## jitterbug

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It sure sounds like you want to open the floodgates.  Please go back and read what you posted if you don't believe me.



Well maybe things should just stay the way they are and the organization should never evolve in relation promotion of ethnic style haircuts in order to help promote diversity in the forces?  It was that way until someone decided to put their hand up regarding Aboriginal hairstyles.

Part of good leadership is promoting and accepting change.  While tradition is important, its really the dinosaurs of organizations that seem to hinder the evolution of the organization.  I will be submitting a briefing note on this very topic so I'm interested in both pros and cons of promoting these types of hairstyles.  Giving an answer showing that you have examined both sides of the coin gives a person more credence.


----------



## armyvern

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I'm not saying lets open the floodgates for anything and everything but respecting diversity and promoting it should be at the forefront when designing policy in my opinion.  Change is good within reason.



Sure you are.

Your "culture" is not someone else's "culture" (and neither are protected grounds).  If your "culture" tends to think you look great in dreadlocks for example, then my "culture" says I'd look great with the same cubed red & green hair that I wore in High School.  Your "culture" is not more important than mine or anyone else's. 

Religion etc are protected grounds and we accommodate for that.


----------



## armyvern

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Well maybe things should just stay the way they are and the organization should never evolve in relation promotion of ethnic style haircuts in order to help promote diversity in the forces?  It was that way until someone decided to put their hand up regarding Aboriginal hairstyles.
> 
> Part of good leadership is promoting and accepting change.  While tradition is important, its really the dinosaurs of organizations that seem to hinder the evolution of the organization.  I will be submitting a briefing note on this very topic so I'm interested in both pros and cons of promoting these types of hairstyles.  Giving an answer showing that you have examined both sides of the coin gives a person more credence.



Diversity of what?

What ethnicity mandates that their pers must wear dreadlocks, topknots etc etc?

Someone wants a topknot, then someone wants purple hair ... all is fair and either they would all have to be acceptable, or none of them.  You don't get to be half pregnant.  And with your Caucasian haircut comment, you've already indicated that you are.  

There is NO such thing as a Caucasian haircut.  There are plenty of other ethnicities, religions etc who wear hair the same as the CAF does as per our diagrams.  Just look around downtown ... those "Caucasian haircuts" ARE NORMAL amongst many creeds, colours and religions.

I just don't think _you_ want _your_ hair that way.

By the way, I am an Irish background red-headed girl with a natural ringlettey afro when I let my hair grow out ... would I be impeding on some others "ethnicity" if I were to let my hair grow naturally?  Think Carrot Top ... girl version.


----------



## jitterbug

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Sure you are.
> 
> Your "culture" is not someone else's "culture" (and neither are protected grounds).  If your "culture" tends to think you look great in dreadlocks for example, then my "culture" says I'd look great with the same cubed red & green hair that I wore in High School.  Your "culture" is not more important than mine or anyone else's.
> 
> Religion etc are protected grounds and we accommodate for that.



Do you think that if the Dress Manual contained photos of cultural type hairstyles that conformed to the regs that it would beneficial to the CF in promoting diversity?

Do you think some minor alterations to the haircut regs (ie. length, shape etc) in order to make them more adaptable for ethnic style haircuts would be beneficial to the CF in promoting diversity?


----------



## George Wallace

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Well maybe things should just stay the way they are and the organization should never evolve in relation promotion of ethnic style haircuts in order to help promote diversity in the forces?



Do you even know the meaning of "UNIFORM" and "UNIFORMITY"?



			
				jitterbug said:
			
		

> Part of good leadership is promoting and accepting change.



A good part of LEADERSHIP is not promoting and accepting change; but knowing and understanding wtf they are doing.  




			
				jitterbug said:
			
		

> ....  While tradition is important, its really the dinosaurs of organizations that seem to hinder the evolution of the organization.



Ummmm?  Again, I will ask you if you UNDERSTAND something.  Do you understand what the meaning of "Tradition" is?  It is something that is perpetuated; not changed on a whim every day.  It wouldn't be a "Tradition" then, would it?



			
				jitterbug said:
			
		

> I will be submitting a briefing note on this very topic so I'm interested in both pros and cons of promoting these types of hairstyles.  Giving an answer showing that you have examined both sides of the coin gives a person more credence.



Is this all that is important to you?  Were you one of those 'idiots' who brought about the "Buttons and Bows" debacle to change all the ranks, just to have a "Promoting Change" check in a box?  Such people have wasted more valuable time than necessary.  Unfortunately they have stolen way too much oxygen that was necessary in other places.


----------



## armyvern

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Do you think that if the Dress Manual contained photos of cultural type hairstyles that conformed to the regs that it would beneficial to the CF in promoting diversity?
> 
> Do you think some minor alterations to the haircut regs (ie. length, shape etc) in order to make them more adaptable for ethnic style haircuts would be beneficial to the CF in promoting diversity?



I already told you that cornrows are indeed diagrammed.

You want a little length added to the diagram to promote diversity?  *Put a photo of a Strat in the Dress Regs.
*
It ain't about "containing photos" in the manual; it's about "authorizing" whatever "ethnic" hairstyles you wish to see so that they can be published in the dress manual.

BTW, I think you should actually be writing a Service Paper rather than a Briefing Note ... because you're going to have to justify why every single hairstyle that currently exists and will exist in the future should be included.
because what YOU want for "ethnic" haircuts, this girl wants something different and once they've allowed for your "ethnic" style, then they MUST allow for mine too --- whatever I decide it shall be.


----------



## jitterbug

The last sentence in the following paragraph really sums up what I have been talking about.  If your hairstyle is part of your "ethnic identity" than you should not have to give that up.  Aboriginals had to do so when they were assimilated into residential schools.

"In 1971, Canada became the first country in the world to adopt an official multiculturalism policy, which was subsequently enshrined in an act of Parliament, thereby recognizing the diversity of Canadians as regards race, national or ethnic origin, colour, and religion as a fundamental characteristic of Canadian society. The policy is designed to preserve and enhance the multicultural heritage of Canadians, while working to achieve the equality of all Canadians in the economic, social, cultural and political life of Canada.3 Multiculturalism therefore can provide organizations with a framework for diversity whereby individuals do not have to give up their cultural or ethnic identity to ‘belong’ and participate in an organization."

This is an excerpt from http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo9/no3/05-scoppio-eng.asp


----------



## armyvern

jitterbug said:
			
		

> The last sentence in the following paragraph really sums up what I have been talking about.  If your hairstyle is part of your "ethnic identity" than you should not have to give that up.  Aboriginals had to do so when they were assimilated into residential schools.
> 
> "In 1971, Canada became the first country in the world to adopt an official multiculturalism policy, which was subsequently enshrined in an act of Parliament, thereby recognizing the diversity of Canadians as regards race, national or ethnic origin, colour, and religion as a fundamental characteristic of Canadian society. The policy is designed to preserve and enhance the multicultural heritage of Canadians, while working to achieve the equality of all Canadians in the economic, social, cultural and political life of Canada.3 Multiculturalism therefore can provide organizations with a framework for diversity whereby individuals do not have to give up their cultural or ethnic identity to ‘belong’ and participate in an organization."
> 
> This is an excerpt from http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo9/no3/05-scoppio-eng.asp



And, the CAF allows for our aboriginal Canadians to wear their hair as such.  Caucasian male soldiers need not apply (unless on religious Grounds).  Guess what?  Many aboriginal male soldiers do not choose to wear their hair as such either.

Which ethnicity is it that requires dreadlocks?  You still have yet to anser that.  None do.  Just as none require afros. Just as none require me to have 2 large braids on the side of my head.

Just as NO "Caucasian ethnicity" requires Caucasian men or women to wear their hair as per the CAF Dress Regs.  The CAF requires CAF members to wear their hair as per Dress Regs - with exceptions made for Religious Reasons (a Protected freedom) and CANADIAN aboriginal peoples.  Seems pretty simple to me.  I know Jamaican immigrants who have shorter hair than I do for crying out loud.


----------



## Loachman

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Part of good leadership is promoting and accepting change.



Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

"Change" in and of itself has no value.

I will happily promote or accept change that confers real benefit.

Dicking around with trivial matters purely to delight special snowflakes does not achieve such benefit, and we have had far, far too much of that crap in the last year or so with rank, cap badge, rank designation, and related change that nobody except a few egotistic idiots wanted. This nonsense confuses and pisses people off, and wastes time and effort and money that should go towards more important things.

I have no use whatsoever for such people.

I might, if they were combustible.

Good leaders do everything in their power to resist nonsense.


----------



## Jarnhamar

jitterbug said:
			
		

> *Well maybe things should just stay the way they are* and the organization should never evolve in relation promotion of ethnic style haircuts in order to help promote diversity in the forces?


I agree.


----------



## armyvern

Loachman said:
			
		

> I might, if they were combustible.



Perhaps your "Caucasian" hairstyle is combustible?  : Want a wee bit of mousse with that?


----------



## Loachman

Dreadlocks should absorb a fair amount of accelerant, especially if thickened.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning...


----------



## mariomike

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I would also suggest they extend the wearing of earings to males.



I've been out for a long time. I understand society has changed.

But, I support federal politicians who support strong pay and benefit packages for our military. Maintaining a clean cut image ( or at least, our version of it ) pays off with certain "old-fashioned" members ( such as myself ) of the community.  

Speaking of hair regs, here's some bonus threads that didn't make it into this one,

Is it time for gendered hair standards to go?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/108861.0/nowap.html
5 pages.

Question on hair regulations  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/100832.0

Cutting your own hair  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/86252.0

haircut question  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/23685.0

BMQ Male Hair Regulations  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/87791.0

Hair Regulations On Future Courses  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/72531.0

Hair Regulations - Female Members of CF  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/35327.0/nowap.html
6 pages.

etc...


----------



## armyvern

I say again, our Dress Regs _do not_ contain examples of "Caucasian hairstyles" ... they contain standard military pattern hairstyles (for which Canada rightly makes both Religious exceptions and exceptions for our Canadian Aboriginal peoples).

Anybody who seriously thinks these SMP haircuts are "Caucasian" needs to open their eyes to the world they are claiming that "we" can't see:

Google "Images" of the following just so you actually *get* it:

Military photos:  Jamaica, South Africe, Namibia, Egypt, Morocco, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Japan, Korea, Germany, Jordan, Syria, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Nepal, Saudi Arabia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Spain, Portugul etc etc etc etc

Oh my Gawd ... all  those non Caucasians sporting Caucasian haircuts. NOT.

How about military people sporting military haircuts.  It's really not rocket science.  "Caucasian haircuts" is a figment of someone's imagination.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Loachman said:
			
		

> Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
> 
> "Change" in and of itself has no value.
> 
> I will happily promote or accept change that confers real benefit.
> 
> Dicking around with trivial matters purely to delight special snowflakes does not achieve such benefit, and we have had far, far too much of that crap in the last year or so with rank, cap badge, rank designation, and related change that nobody except a few egotistic idiots wanted. This nonsense confuses and pisses people off, and wastes time and effort and money that should go towards more important things.
> 
> I have no use whatsoever for such people.
> 
> I might, if they were combustible.
> 
> Good leaders do everything in their power to resist nonsense.



"WISER'S CLAP!!!


----------



## NavalMoose

Jitterbug, maybe you should take it up with the person(s) that forced you to sign on the dotted line to serve your country.....or you could just get your bloody hair cut.


----------



## AbdullahD

mariomike said:
			
		

> I've been out for a long time. I understand society has changed.
> 
> But, I support federal politicians who support strong pay and benefit packages for our military. Maintaining a clean cut image ( or at least, our version of it ) pays off with certain "old-fashioned" members ( such as myself ) of the community.
> 
> Speaking of hair regs, here's some bonus threads that didn't make it into this one,
> 
> Is it time for gendered hair standards to go?
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/108861.0/nowap.html
> 5 pages.
> 
> Question on hair regulations
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/100832.0
> 
> Cutting your own hair
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/86252.0
> 
> haircut question
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/23685.0
> 
> BMQ Male Hair Regulations
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/87791.0
> 
> Hair Regulations On Future Courses
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/72531.0
> 
> Hair Regulations - Female Members of CF
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/35327.0/nowap.html
> 6 pages.
> 
> etc...



Damnit mate, I love your posts. That's all I wanted to say.

and uh the napalm hairdos ill have to remember as a no no lol


----------



## armyvern

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> and uh the napalm hairdos ill have to remember as a no no lol



Imagine having to tote the big yellow hazmat locker out to the field and on tours with you just to house your "hair product"??   :blotto:


----------



## Journeyman

jitterbug said:
			
		

> .....diversity and promoting it should be at the forefront when designing policy in my opinion.


And here I thought that operational effectiveness and administrative efficiency were the goals.  Different army I guess.  :dunno:

Well, enjoy your crusade; write when you sack Medina.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Journeyman said:
			
		

> And here I thought that operational effectiveness and administrative efficiency were the goals.  Different army I guess.  :dunno:
> 
> Well, enjoy your crusade; write when you sack Medina.



I think you need to post a trigger warning before dropping the C word  ;D


----------



## Gundoctor

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Basically what I'm saying is that the current regs don't appear to promote ethnic style haircuts.  Why shouldn't dreadlocks be authorized?  They can be done in a conservative manner.  I'm not saying people should have big nappy dreads or anything like that.  Dreadlocks are not a "mandatory" thing for the Rastafarian religion however many that practice wear dreadlocks as it is a culturally based style haircut.  Surely someone could alter the dress manual to include photos of ethnic styles and regs that promote more cultural diversity for haircuts.
> 
> Secondly, braids only appear to be authorized for females and therefore males cannot wear cornrows.  I would also suggest they extend the wearing of earings to males.  Why should just females be allowed to wear earings?
> 
> I'm not saying lets open the floodgates for anything and everything but respecting diversity and promoting it should be at the forefront when designing policy in my opinion.  Change is good within reason.



Odd how no other military in the world allows dreadlocks, I guess the Jamaican Defense Force are bigots too


----------



## Journeyman

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I think you need to post a trigger warning before dropping the C word  ;D


I used a lower-case "c" so no one would mistakenly think I was appropriating someone else's cultural romps through holy lands, or promoting religious oppression. 

....'cause I care about shit like that.   :nod:


----------



## mariomike

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Military photos:  Jamaica, South Africe, Namibia, Egypt, Morocco, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Japan, Korea, Germany, Jordan, Syria, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Nepal, Saudi Arabia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Spain, Portugul etc etc etc etc



If other militaries are included in the discussion, I came across this ( from 2014, but the first time I saw it ),

CBC

The Pentagon's new target: hairstyles worn by black women?
U.S. army rules on hairstyles prompt backlash and then a review ordered by Defence Secretary
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/the-pentagon-s-new-target-hairstyles-worn-by-black-women-1.2629918

Time

U.S. Military Rolls Back Restrictions on Black Hairstyles
http://time.com/3107647/military-black-hairstyles/
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced the U.S. military has rolled back prohibitions on popular black hairstyles within its ranks, following months of fierce backlash.


----------



## Good2Golf

It would seem even Google is confused when you ask it what is a "Caucasian hairstyle"...I asked it, and half the images that came back were not Caucasian.

I'd still like to know just what IS a Caucasian hairstyle?  ???


----------



## BinRat55

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I am curious what people think of the current hairstyle regulations and how they appear (to me) to pertain mostly to Caucasian males and females.  I have not seen any pictures of ethnic hair styles in the manual.  If you look at the pictures displaying the permitted hairstyles there is nothing portraying more ethnic style haircuts (ie. dreadlocks, cornrows and others.)
> 
> I would suggest that the manual and regs be altered in order to promote more ethnic hairstyles while still having a professional appearance while in uniform.  Hairstyles can be an important cultural identifier and the CF should promote these types of things as they do with Aboriginal people and their long/braided hair.
> 
> What do you think about the current regs and do you feel they are representative of all or most cultural/ethnic based hair styles?



I don't thing our dress manual is a shopping catalogue. It's seems to me that it might be a "directive". The idea of "promoting" certain hairstyles should be left to the salons and personal time. I look to the the QR&Os, DAODs, 265, CFAOs to know how to conduct myself while in and out of uniform. 

Maybe I am reading it wrong, but as many have said here - we do allow for religious beliefs and customs. I think this is a lot different than culture. We have a lot of diverse cultures in the CAF, but the ones who have religious necessities have been honoured.

I am a Newfie. I believe this is a very distinct culture. Should the CAF "promote" my meal requirement of pees pudding and salt meat every Sunday? And all my male family members had beards. Should I be allowed? It would look great with my sou'wester... which by the way, should be available for issue in Clothing Stores along with my daily shot of Screech!


----------



## mariomike

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I'd still like to know just what IS a Caucasian hairstyle?  ???



I don't know, but I saw this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8AE-25r3TE
Now, being a barber is a lot like being a barman or a soda-jerk; there's not much to it once you've learned the basic moves. For the kids there's the Butch, or the Heinie......the Flat Top, the Ivy, the Crew, the Vanguard, the Junior Contour and, occasionally, the Executive Contour. Adults get variations on the same, along with the Duck Butt,  the Timberline......and something we call the Alpine Rope Toss.


----------



## PMedMoe

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> *pees* pudding



Ewww.....  :-X



I like the idea of a sou'wester though...


----------



## BinRat55

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Ewww.....  :-X
> 
> 
> 
> I like the idea of a sou'wester though...



Lol!! Pees pudding is the frickin BEST!!!


----------



## armyvern

mariomike said:
			
		

> I don't know, but I saw this,
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8AE-25r3TE
> Now, being a barber is a lot like being a barman or a soda-jerk; there's not much to it once you've learned the basic moves. For the kids there's the Butch, or the Heinie......the Flat Top, the Ivy, the Crew, the Vanguard, the Junior Contour and, occasionally, the Executive Contour. Adults get variations on the same, along with the Duck Butt,  the Timberline......and something we call the Alpine Rope Toss.



Sure, white guys with military style haircuts. NOT Caucasian haircuts.  I can post a pic of Beiber sporting dreads if you wish.  


Go scan over the links I posted up earlier to see the myriad of different ethnicities, religions and cultures sporting standard military pattern haircuts while serving in their respective militaries.  Pretty simple concept:  Our dress regs contain imagery of standard military pattern haircuts worn by military members world-wide regardless of their culture, relgion, ethnicity etc etc etc

There is NO such thing as a Caucasian haircut. There IS such thing as standard military pattern haircuts worn around the world.   


Just like when I let my hair grow naturally (a nice ringlettey curly afro) and stand to be accused of "misappropriating someone else's culture". Bullshit.  That's my damn hair in it's natural state and it just won't f'n do for getting the nitty gitty of the job done.  I hack it off, or put it up (with shit tonnes of product to keep it tameable) ... and I've lived through 28 years of it in some pretty shitty places and have come out OK. 

Someone else also wants a hairstyle they can't have and they are making up terms like "Caucasian Haircut" in order to make it seem as if "we" are the uneducated --- yet the google pics of those military haircuts worldwide from some of those very "cultures" seemingly inferred by use of the word "dreadlocks" etc yields the opposite results --- they don't even find it necessary to wear such in their own immediate military.  Yet, Canada is somehow behind and unaccepting of cultural or ethnic allowances? My butt.


----------



## armyvern

http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/255/251/A-DH-265-000-AG-001.pdf

Start at Section 2 Appearance, para 4 for hair (page 45 of the adobe).  You'll find that cornrows make their appearance at para 5b (especially important if, as you've stated, you're going to do a Briefing Note on all this yet also stated that the 265 doesn't cover cornrows).  Unless of course you are a guy, then it still doesn't cover cornrows.  But Caucasian men can't wear braids, buns either so I guess it's not really a "cultural or ethnic item" as you state when those Caucasians are also left out of doing what all the Caucasian women can do.

Cornrows also make an appearance in the NOTES.  I love this bit as I lose my mind when I hit a parade and there are women in braids in their DEU --- NO!!! Not allowed - get it up in the damn bun.  But, I do find that all too often their supervisors are males who know the Regs on male haircuts too well and are weak on the female side of the Regs.  They'll nail a guy to get a haircut if a wisp is out place, yet next to the guy is standing a girl with her hair extending past the bottom of her collar --- that means braid it, bun it or cut it.  I've also seen braids hanging past the seam running across the back of the shirt (top of the armpits) --- that means UP into a bun or cut it so that it does not extend past the bottom of the seam.  I've seen chicks with a braid hanging half way down their back and nary a peep from males around them who outrank them. Not on.



> NOTE
> Female personal appearance on ceremonial
> parade in accordance with Figure 2-2-3;
> straight hairstyles will be gathered in a bun.
> This is also applicable for the cornrows.



Figure 2-2-3 is located on page 61 of the adobe.


----------



## mariomike

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> There is NO such thing as a Caucasian haircut. There IS such thing as standard military pattern haircuts worn around the world.



For those who enjoy our hair cut discussions, some bonus threads that did not make this "cut",  

Haircut a "go" or "no go" according to dress regs?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/55956.0;nowap
4 pages.

Haircuts
http://army.ca/forums/threads/3992.50.html
"OK, so what are the regulations regarding hairstyle for men." 
3 pages.

Is it time for gendered hair standards to go?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/108861.0/nowap.html
5 pages.

Question on hair regulations  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/100832.0

Cutting your own hair  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/86252.0

haircut question  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/23685.0

BMQ Male Hair Regulations  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/87791.0

Hair Regulations On Future Courses  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/72531.0

Hair Regulations - Female Members of CF  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/35327.0/nowap.html
6 pages.

Head Shaving/BMQ (merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/86056.0
3 pages.

etc...

Haven't had an SMP haircut in a long time. But, I still have it cut the same way ( "Caucasian style"? ) once a week.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Well maybe things should just stay the way they are and the organization should never evolve in relation promotion of ethnic style haircuts in order to help promote diversity in the forces?  It was that way until someone decided to put their hand up regarding Aboriginal hairstyles.
> 
> Part of good leadership is promoting and accepting change.  While tradition is important, its really the dinosaurs of organizations that seem to hinder the evolution of the organization.  I will be submitting a briefing note on this very topic so I'm interested in both pros and cons of promoting these types of hairstyles.  Giving an answer showing that you have examined both sides of the coin gives a person more credence.



Here's a news flash; the main goal of the CAF isn't to 'promote diversity'.  It is to defend the nation and the nation's interest, something along that line.

Some of us who have jobs that are centered and focused on that don't care about stupid things like dreadlocks being authorized in uniform.  The fact you see this as a point of focus of your efforts and that you intend to take time to do a BN/SP on this topic makes me mad, because part of my tax dollars pay you the salary you'll be 'earning' while you pursue this stupid line of thinking.

How about doing something that makes the CAF stronger, improves the ability of your subordinates to do their job, or something you know...beneficial to the Forces.   :


----------



## kratz

mariomike said:
			
		

> For those who enjoy our hair cut discussions, some bonus threads that did not make this *"cut",  *
> 
> 
> Haircut a "go" or "no go" according to dress regs?
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/55956.0;nowap
> 4 pages.



*<snip>*

mariomike, 

You're great at research, but I wouldn't recommend you start a stand-up comedy act.   [lol:


----------



## mariomike

kratz said:
			
		

> *<snip>*
> 
> mariomike,
> 
> You're great at research, but I wouldn't recommend you start a stand-up comedy act.   [lol:



They say a pun is the lowest form of humour—_when you don't think of it first_.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

:sarcasm: I want everyone to quit saying "Caucasian Hairstyles/ Haircuts". I'm finding it racist and personally offensive. It makes me uncomfortable and it penetrates my safe space, which appears to be getting smaller all the time.

Next stop, the Human Rights Commission.

Whitey, Snowball, Cracker or Peckerwood are all OK, but only if a Caucasian is using them. If you're something other than Caucasian, you can't use them because that would be racist wouldn't it.

 :sarcasm:

By the by, dreadlocks are not exclusive to African-Americans, I'm from Viking stock, we had dreads too.


----------



## ballz

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Basically what I'm saying is that the current regs don't appear to promote ethnic style haircuts.  Why shouldn't dreadlocks be authorized?  They can be done in a conservative manner.  I'm not saying people should have big nappy dreads or anything like that.  Dreadlocks are not a "mandatory" thing for the Rastafarian religion however many that practice wear dreadlocks as it is a culturally based style haircut.  Surely someone could alter the dress manual to include photos of ethnic styles and regs that promote more cultural diversity for haircuts.



No amendments to the dress publication needed. There is already a method to request religious / spiritual accommodations. If you are a Rastafarian and want dreadlocks, put in the proper request with the reasons and the CoC will almost certainly meet with you to figure out what accommodation would suit your needs. It does not have be a "mandatory" requirement of the religion, as the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that the duty to accommodate goes beyond "mandatory requirements," and a CANFORGEN was pushed out with direction to accommodate within reason shortly after.

That said, I agree with everyone here that this "ethic" and "Caucasian" haircut stuff you are talking about is a crock of s**t. The dress manual shows conservative hair styles. We don't need to waste time and resources re-doing the publications for sensitive Sally's that want to see more visible minorities in everything.


----------



## George Wallace

recceguy said:
			
		

> By the by, dreadlocks are not exclusive to African-Americans, I'm from Viking stock, we had dreads too.



That is actual proof that the Vikings DID explore North America as far South at least to the Caribbean Islands, if not around the Cape.   [


----------



## Journeyman

recceguy said:
			
		

> I'm from Viking stock, we had dreads too.


I am NOT picturing you in dreads!   I'm NOT!!   Oh damn, there's the image.  MY EYES!!!!


----------



## Basswindu

I recently handed in my application for the military, and I have a military acceptable haircut but I use pomade to style it. Would I be allowed to bring a small container of it to BMQ or would I just have to suck it up?


----------



## Basswindu

I suppose stating I'm male would be helpful lol


----------



## armyvern

Basswindu said:
			
		

> I suppose stating I'm male would be helpful lol


You are good to go with the pomade.


----------



## Basswindu

Perfect, thank you.


----------



## Dae

Hello, 

So I currently have a partial side shave, my hair is long and can easily go up in a professional bun. I'm currently a commissionaire so it has to be up and professional but with basic no that far off am I going to be forced to grow out the partial side shave? does anyone know the regulations on women with a partial side shave?

Thank you


----------



## mariomike

Dae said:
			
		

> does anyone know the regulations on women with a partial side shave?



See also,

Hair Regulations - Female Members of CF  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/35327.75
6 pages.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Dae said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> So I currently have a partial side shave, my hair is long and can easily go up in a professional bun. I'm currently a commissionaire so it has to be up and professional but with basic no that far off am I going to be forced to grow out the partial side shave? does anyone know the regulations on women with a partial side shave?
> 
> Thank you



From the latest Dress Manual:



> HAIR
> 4. Hair on the head shall be neatly groomed and conservatively styled. The length, bulk or style of hair
> shall not detract from a positive military appearance or preclude the proper wear of military headdress.
> (Bulk is the distance that the mass of hair extends from the skin, when groomed, as opposed to the
> length of hair.) In particular, style and colour shall not present a bizarre, exaggerated, or unusual
> appearance. Unusual colours, such as green, bright red, orange, purple, etc., are not permitted. Hair must
> be secured or styled back to reveal the face, and any accessories used to secure or control hair styles
> shall be as unobtrusive as possible. Hair ornaments shall not be worn, except women’s conservative
> barrettes which blend with the hair colour. Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted. The personal
> manner of wearing hair within these general style limits, including moustaches, beards and braids, shall be
> modified to the degree necessary to accommodate operational or occupational equipment, such as gas,
> oxygen and scuba masks, hard, combat and flying helmets, etc., where a member’s safety or mission is put in
> jeopardy.
> 5. The following additional details apply to specific groups to accord with religious and spiritual practices
> and public perceptions of a disciplined force:
> 
> b. Women (see Figure 2-2-3). Hair shall not extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar.
> Exaggerated styles, including those with excessive fullness or extreme height, are not authorized.
> Braids, if worn, shall be styled conservatively and tied tightly: secured at the end by a knot or a small
> unadorned fastener. A second small unadorned fastener may be used to secure the top of the braid. A
> single braid shall be worn in the centre of the back. Double braids shall be worn behind the
> shoulders. Hair shall be a maximum length when gathered behind the head and braided which does
> not extend below the top of the armpit. Multiple braids (cornrows) shall be directed toward the back
> of the head, pulled tight to the head and secured at the end by a knot or a small-unadorned
> fastener. A second small unadorned fastener may be used to secure the top of the braid. Multiple
> braids extending below the lower edge of the collar are to be gathered in a bun. With the permission of
> a Commanding Officer, a reasonable period may be authorized in order to transition from short to
> long hairstyles, during which time hair may extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar; all the
> while maintaining a positive military appearance, and subject to the member’s safety.
> NOTE
> Appearance on ceremonial parade in accordance with Figure 2-2-3; straight hairstyles will
> be gathered in a bun. This is also applicable for the cornrows.


----------



## armyvern

Dae said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> So I currently have a partial side shave, my hair is long and can easily go up in a professional bun. I'm currently a commissionaire so it has to be up and professional but with basic no that far off am I going to be forced to grow out the partial side shave? does anyone know the regulations on women with a partial side shave?
> 
> Thank you



Won't fly as per the "no exaggerated styles".


----------



## soldier07

Will number 0 cause a problem?


----------



## mariomike

soldier07 said:
			
		

> Will number 0 cause a problem?



Does not specifically say if it will, or will not, but I read this in Reply #413,

"Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted."

Reference:

CANADIAN ARMED FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/pub/ins-265/dhh_dress_instr_adh265000_ag001-19Sep16-eng.pdf
A-DH-265-000/AG-001

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of up to date official information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## RedcapCrusader

soldier07 said:
			
		

> Will number 0 cause a problem?



Nah you good fam. 

I get a 00 or 000 depending on what the barber has a available. Never a problem and it keeps me out of the chair for longer.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

soldier07 said:
			
		

> Will number 0 cause a problem?



Are you a member or a hopeful/recruit? Because honestly, it depends. Outside of arriving on your first day, once course is in full swing you will have to get the haircut you're told to get/will have to adhere to standards your staff sets.


----------



## Pitohui

I've found no definitive answers regarding ponytails: are they allowed? If so do they follow the same rules as a braid regarding the maximum length being to the top of the armpit or are they considered a conservative hairstyle and permitted so long as it does not extend past the lower edge of the shirt collar?


----------



## mariomike

Pitohui said:
			
		

> I've found no definitive answers regarding ponytails: are they allowed? If so do they follow the same rules as a braid regarding the maximum length being to the top of the armpit or are they considered a conservative hairstyle and permitted so long as it does not extend past the lower edge of the shirt collar?



For reference to the discussion, 

Hair Regulations - Female Members of CF
https://army.ca/forums/threads/35327.125
6 pages.

Hair - Women - Pictures
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/dress-manual/chapter-2/section-2.html#figure-2-2-3-1



> Hair shall not extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar. Exaggerated styles, including those with excessive fullness or extreme height, are not authorized. Braids, if worn, shall be styled conservatively and tied tightly: secured at the end by a knot or a small unadorned fastener. A second small unadorned fastener may be used to secure the top of the braid. A single braid shall be worn in the centre of the back. Double braids shall be worn behind the shoulders. Hair shall be a maximum length when gathered behind the head and braided which does not extend below the top of the armpit. Multiple braids (cornrows) shall be directed toward the back of the head, pulled tight to the head and secured at the end by a knot or a small-unadorned fastener. A second small unadorned fastener may be used to secure the top of the braid. Multiple braids extending below the lower edge of the collar are to be gathered in a bun. With the permission of a Commanding Officer, a reasonable period may be authorized in order to transition from short to long hairstyles, during which time hair may extend below the lower edge of the shirt collar; all the while maintaining a positive military appearance, and subject to the member’s safety.


----------



## Strike

Pitohui said:
			
		

> I've found no definitive answers regarding ponytails: are they allowed? If so do they follow the same rules as a braid regarding the maximum length being to the top of the armpit or are they considered a conservative hairstyle and permitted so long as it does not extend past the lower edge of the shirt collar?



As it stands currently, ponytails are not permitted (except on ship I believe), however there are certain times that you'd be able to get away with it, like under a flying helmet.


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