# Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]



## Fusilier (16 May 2005)

I've served for 19 yrs both in the Reserves and the Regular Force (all of it with operational units, the past 9 in 1 PPCLI), one of my biggest pet peeves is the lack of attention members pay to the
administration in regards to their family (this applies to both single and married/common-law mbrs).  Now I realize that it is not entirely the soldiers fault, in some cases they're just not aware, or do not know where to find it the maze of administrative regulations

I have dealt with issues (death of children, mbrs, spouses etc) over the years that would have had entirely different outcomes had mbrs been more aware of their responsibilities.  The attached document was written to explain to my Pl Comds, Sr NCO's and soldiers of the unit and their spouses what is available to them.  It is based on current regulations (I update it regularly) and personal experience.  This has gone out on the "clerk net" to my buddies and I've been told it's very useful,
I've also been told I should have it officially published but in the mean time I'd like to get it out to a larger audience through this forum.

Feel free to give comments/feedback, let me know if it's helpful, it would be appreciated, if anyone has any questions feel free to ask...yes I'm a clerk and I'm here to help you


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## Michael OLeary (16 May 2005)

Fusilier, an excellent piece, thank you. I have linked your post from the general section of the Recruiting FAQ, it's never too early for members to absorb the importance and details of such matters.


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## Pea (16 May 2005)

I am not yet a member of the Canadian Forces, but hope to be soon. Thank you so much for the very helpful information. I am sure that it will come in very handy in time!


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## Fusilier (16 May 2005)

Thank you, too true - teach them while they're fresh.   

I would also encourage new members to request to be nominated for Long-Term Planning (LTP) Seminars through their local Base Personnel Selection Office (PSO), check with your chain of command for the nomination proceedures.   

It's never too early to plan for retirement, if I knew then what I know now!!


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## wotan (17 May 2005)

Fusilier,

  As a fellow clerk, I have to say that what you have created is an excellent info package.  And, yes, you most definitely should submit it for official dissemination.  You need to be recognized for your efforts and your concern for the soldiers.  BZ!


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## Fusilier (17 May 2005)

WOTAN,

Thank you for the compliment.  Truthfully, I would like to publish it (or similar) to reach a wider audience but I'm not sure how to proceed or who to fwd it to.  If you have any ideas plse let me know!

Thanks again


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## Gunner (17 May 2005)

Fusiler, 

You could forward it through your Adjt to G1 1 CMBG for distribution throughout the 1 CMBG and LFWA (and possibly the army!).  I can have it posted on the LFWA DIN and Internet sites.

Cheers,


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## Chimo (11 Jul 2005)

Great Article,my suggestion is send it to The Maple Leaf with a short letter of explanation. I salute you for bringing it forward, I have saved it to my work files and will pass it on.


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## Gunner98 (11 Jul 2005)

Excellent document, once a copy editor, always a copy editor. 

Just a few suggested amends:

1. Operational Verification Readiness (ORV) should read Operational Readiness Verification

2. "Where possible, references have been included in the applicable section, for a complete list of references see page 8."  I did not see a page 8 with references in the download.

3. FCA - It is limited to single members and service couples - should read single parents.

4. NOTE:  you do not require to have custody of the child(ren) in order to provide dental coverage for them.  Should read: you are not required to have...

I would suggest submission to ADM HR (Mil), your MFRC and CF Personnel Newsletter, see submission guidelines @ http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/subguidelines_e.asp.  It would be also be a  welcome addition to the web page @ http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/family/index_e.asp


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## Fusilier (12 Jul 2005)

Thank you,


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## MJP (12 Jul 2005)

Me and my wife get FCA as a service couple or has this recently changed?


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## Fusilier (12 Jul 2005)

MJP said:
			
		

> Me and my wife get FCA as a service couple or has this recently changed?



No changes, service couples are still entitled.  What Gunner 98 meant is in my original document I said "It is limited to single members and service couples", he was right it should read "single parents and service couples


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## MJP (12 Jul 2005)

LOL silly me thanks for the clarification

Had me worried considering we are both scheduled to deploy on the BTE


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## Fusilier (12 Jul 2005)

No problem, any more questions come down and see me in the BOR   that is if you're at work...if so..get back to work!!  ;D


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## MJP (12 Jul 2005)

on Block leave...gotta love it!


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## Fusilier (12 Jul 2005)

MJP, lucky you!

Now I should get back to work!  

If anyone has any questions ref any of these issues contact your administrative staff at your unit for assistance.  Or feel free to post a question on this thread or send me a pers msg and I'll do my best to answer you.


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## Canadian Sig (3 Aug 2005)

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what is FCA? Another question; me and my other half have been living together for 2 years and are both service members, this means that we are considered common-law by the military (haven't signed anything though). I have 2 children living in BC ( I am in Pet) and I want to know how our common-law status will effect my LTA opportunities to travel to see my children? Many thanks to anyone out there who can make sense of any of this for me..lol


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## Gunner98 (3 Aug 2005)

Cdn Sig:  Just ask if you require further clarification after reading and digesting info below.

Just because you are living together does not make you Common-law, you must both sign a Common Law Agreement whereby you lawfully declare each other to be common law husband and wife.  Have you been declared as spouses to a career manager?   CFAO 19-41 on Common Law Rel'ps at: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/019-41_e.asp

Leave Travel Clarification at link: 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dcba/engraph/LTA_e.asp?sidesection=2&sidecat=7

In brief: FOR MBRS WITH DEPENDANTS, HOME AND PARENT FOR THE PURPOSES OF LTA ARE DEFINED IN REF B. IN THE EVENT OF SEPARATION/DIVORCE, A MBR WHO HAS SOME FORM OF LEGAL CUSTODY BUT NOT PRIMARY CUSTODY OF A DEPENDANT CHILD MAY BE REIMBURSED LTA TO THE LOCATION WHERE THE DEPENDANT CHILD OF THAT RELATIONSHIP RESIDES. WHEN A MBR ACQUIRES NEW DEPENDANTS BY BLOOD, MARRIAGE (INCL COMMON LAW), SAME SEX PARTNERSHIP OR ADOPTION ONLY THE MOST RECENT RELATIONSHIP CAN BE RECOGNIZED FOR LTA PURPOSES

Family Care Assistance (FCA)  see link: http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dcba/engraph/fca_e.asp?sidesection=2&sidecat=7
What is Family Care Assistance (FCA)?

A.   The FCA is a non-taxable benefit designed to aid CF single parents and Married Service Couples (MSCs), with the costs that are incurred for family care which results from absences of 24 hours or more of the single member or of both the married service members. A member referred to above is entitled to be reimbursed a maximum of the daily amount for childcare established by Treasury Board in respect of the difference between: 

a.   the amount paid by the member for childcare or attendant care services as a direct result of their being absent from the family home or place of duty for a period of 24 hours or more; and

b.   the amount normally paid by the member for childcare or attendant care services.

Background:
During SCONDVA's year-long hearings public attention was drawn to the financial difficulties facing many CF members and their families as a result of extended absences of the military member from the family and the substantial child-care costs thereby incurred. This situation is particularly acute in single-parent families when the service member is deployed or sent on training. It is also a problem among dual-service couples when both members are absent through deployment, training or a combination of both.

The Department recognizes the financial hardships imposed on CF members and their families when members are deployed on short notice. To alleviate this situation, emergency childcare services are now offered through the Military Family Resource Centres. This service provides families access to affordable and regulated childcare in times of emergency and addresses financial hardship to families during an emergency. However, the emergency childcare service does not address the financial impact on the service family of long-term deployment or training, hence the development of Family Care Assistance (FCA) to complement the existing program.

The Family Care Assistance program will provide financial assistance to single parent families or single members who have family members under the age of 16, or over 16 who require assistance due to physical or mental disability and who is not receiving a pension. Service couples would also be eligible for financial assistance when both members are required by the Canadian Forces to be absent from home at the same time for a period exceeding 24 hours. It is estimated the Family Care Assistance will cost $6.1 million annually.

CBI 209.335 - FAMILY CARE ASSISTANCE 

CANFORGEN 079/03


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## Canadian Sig (3 Aug 2005)

Clear as a bell now Gunner. Thanks a ton. (and no we have not been declared as spouses to our career manager).


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## Redneck052 (1 Nov 2005)

This was a great piece, very well written. Well done.

I can say with experience what I have done with the relationship between my career and family, has worked for us.  Over the last year our family has been tested, tried, and we are still going forward.

I believe that it is necessary to acknowledge that it is a relationship that we have with our families and our work.  We need to work with our families just as hard as we do to get a decent PER.  What I do is I go to work thirty to forty-five minutes before work, and when I am home, I am AT HOME, I am not doing "work things".  If I need to prepare my kit, I do it after my kids go to bed.  If I need to stay up past midnight I will, just so I can spend that extra minute with the kids, to me there is not a conflict.  

Sundays, is always "Family Day", we all go hiking, walking, even shopping if we have to, but we are all doing it together, and nothing to do with anything else.  Just us as a Family.

With putting your family first while you are at home, it makes things easier on them when things get tougher on the work side.  Your family have all of the time that you have spent with them, and will spend with them to bank on when things calm down again.

Food for thought.

As always.

"...through!"

Redneck.
www.donavanscampaign.com


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## military granny (6 May 2006)

Fusilier 
Someone should post this on the military wives sites, as most of you guys will admit when you aren't around your better halves look after this kind of stuff


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## glenndon (5 Jul 2006)

Hi there,

Was searching through old threads trying to find some info, and didn't find very much.  

Was wondering what couples with children do about child care, when both spouses are on shift work, or one is away and one is on shift work, and their childcare needs don't fit the conventional 7am-4pm daycare setting.  What kind of added costs there are, etc. . 

If there are other threads about this very topic that I didn't find, please point me in the right direction!

Thanks!

Glenn


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## Michael OLeary (5 Jul 2006)

Your best first stop will probably be to talk to your local MFRC.  They will probably have someone who has recently gone through a similar situation that you can compare notes with.  The MFRC advisors should also be aware of any support programs available.


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## Springroll (6 Jul 2006)

There are homecare agencies that do provide those types of services for children....homecare is not just for the elderly anymore.

Do as Mr O'Leary suggested and contact the MFRC. They normally have agencies they go through for the emergency respite care and they can give you a list of companies they deal with and recommend.

Good luck!


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## Cansky (6 Jul 2006)

We are a service couple with 3 kids.  We found that the MFRC didn't fit well into our work hours (I start at 730 and am usually at work by 7am).  So we went with a private day home setting.  We have excellent care and the price was great too.  Usually most of the private dayhomes will negotiate wages.  we pay $35 per day and double that if it is over night.  If we are running late then $5 per half hour.  Keep in mind this is a low price and other charge alot more.  The MFRC usually has a list of local daycares, private day homes.  Depending on where you are (edmonton for eg.)  the MFRC may require the persons to have a criminal record screening before they pass on the info regarding dayhome.  There is also the option of Nannies.  This can be pricey but you can have a Canadian citizen who either lives in your home or comes to your home.  You can also have a livin nanny from another country that you are sponsering while they get their citizen ship.  It can be very frustrating to find quality child care.  But it is out there.  Good luck.


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## Shadow Cat (7 Jul 2006)

I have friends that are service couples and they had to go with a private childcare provider as well.  Currently he is away on training and her military position requires shift work, so many days, so many nights and than so many days off.  Daycare and afterschool care was not an option for them due to the evenings (overnight) shifts that she has to do. 

It is not easy on any one but if you can find the right sitter it can at least make life easier on yourself and more importantly the children.


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## Serenity (9 Jul 2006)

As both a parent and a Child Care worker, I can understand what a frustrating situation families find themselves in.  

As has been already stated, your best place to start is the MFRC.  But if their options don't work for your family what about networking with other parents?  There are bound to be many people in your situation and if they are unable to help you themselves then perhaps they can point you in a better direction.  

If nothing else, they can share in the never-ending tribulation that is working parenthood.

Good luck in your search.


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## unarmedMelissa (7 Aug 2006)

Thank you. I have also just applied to the Army so this is good to know.
Thanks again


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## Cloud Cover (21 Mar 2007)

Bump!!   Perhaps this is something for the CF to aspire to in order to retain members?

Reproduced from the Navy Newstand at the USN Naval Postgraduate School- i.a.w. copyright laws for discussion. 

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=28311

*DoD Child Care Named No. 1 in the U.S.*
Story Number: NNS070316-12
Release Date: 3/16/2007 12:51:00 PM



By Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class (AW/NAC) Eric J. Rowley Fleet Public Affairs Center Det Northwest

SILVERDALE, Wash. (NNS) -- The National Association of Child Care Resources and Referral Agencies report card released March 1 stated DoD child care facilities scored better than all other state programs in the United States in every area rated.

The report card ranks every state and DoD child care program on 15 basic criteria related to the association's current child care center standards and oversight for a total of 150 points. DoD was ranked the highest at 117 points against an average score of 70 points. 

“The Child Development Center staff are always interacting with my son and getting him to interact with other children," said Hospital Corpsman Johnlynn Rudy, Naval Base Kitsap, Bangor Medical Clinic. “I put trust in them because they are qualified in CPR and first aid.” 

The 15 areas DoD and the states were scored on included training requirements, quarterly inspections, licensing and staff-to-child ratio. 

*“At Navy child care centers, personnel are required to complete 13 Navy standardized child care modules that consist of safety, nutrition, social development, professionalism, physical development and more,” said Victoria Ritterman, child development education technician of Jackson Park Child Development Center. “In order for an employee to keep their job they need to complete the training modules within 18 months of getting hired.”*

Eight states and DoD addressed all 10 basic health and safety benchmarks including fire drills, administration of medication, prevention of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, diapering, hand-washing and safe playground surfaces. 

“On a scale of one to 10, I rate the DoD child care an 11 or 12,” said Opal Brekke, DoD civilian and mother. “I’ve lived in Mayport, Fla., Norfolk, Va., and now Silverdale, Wash., with my son attending several different Navy day cares. Every single one of them provided outstanding service with both the in-home care providers and the actual command day cares.

“The youth programs are outstanding,” added Brekke. “The facilities are always clean and well taken care of. I don’t think enough people take advantage of the care they give. The people are friendly and professional.”

Out of all 15 areas the DoD and states were scored on, DoD was ranked first in every category. 

For related news around the fleet, visit the www.navy.mil.


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## MS07 (20 Aug 2007)

I am just wondering if anyone knows if the Military accomodates families.  Will the military send both parents away I>E. Training / deployments.  This is one factor I am pondering in regards to joining the military. We do not have family in the immediate area to care for the child.   I appreciate any feedback.


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## George Wallace (20 Aug 2007)

Simple answer:  Yes the military will send both parents away at the same time.

More detailed answer:  The Military will try to accommodate military spouses as much as possible, but will not guarantee anything.  As both members are earning more than the single income military family, they should also budget for unforseen deployments, separations, etc. that may find one or both of them away from their dependents.  Perhaps, reading some of the other topics here in "The Home Front" will help you to better plan your future in the CF.  

There are many couples who are serving in the CF and married, so there will be lots of good advice on the pros and cons of such relationships and how they have managed to balance family and work.


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## Ex-Dragoon (20 Aug 2007)

I know of a couple of cases in the navy where the spouse was deployed on Op Apollo and the other spouse was on the ship relieving them.


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## MS07 (21 Aug 2007)

Thank you.  I am still going through the recruiting process, still waiting for OMD.  Thought I would ask a question I never heard anyone talk about.


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## Fusilier (19 Sep 2007)

To All who have read previous versions of this.  I try to update as the regulations change to make this a useful document.  I appreciate comments and suggestions as I feel it only can improve the overall content.  Remember this is not any kind of official publication, just me trying to look after my guys & girls  

When I first posted this in 2005 may people found it useful, at that time I had a couple of tours under my belt and already lenghty service with the combat arms.  I have now been back from Afghanstan for a year, as chief clerk of the TF 1-06 Infantry Battle Group myself and my staff saw first hand how important things like PEN forms, SDB etc are.  

Please, please people, take the time to ask questions and fill these things out properly.  This document is intended as a guide, use it and ask questions of your admin staff.  It does not just apply to operational tours but your day to day service as you never know what may happen.

My son is currently going through BMQ, and hopes to become an infanteer in the regiment I served with and my husband served with.  We are very proud of him.  Before he left I sat him down and reviewed this document and he said "mom, I don't have a wife and kids yet" and I said "no, but you still have family, you can't put a PO box number as our address on your PEN form, how will the assisting officer find me if they need to?"   I know that in the future he will be going somewhere, maybe not to Afghanistan but most likely somewhere like it.  

All I can say everyone is, I've seen it from all sides.  Lost good friends and watched as things were more difficult for their families than they should have been.  Work with your admin staff, educate yourselves on your entitlements and what is available to you and ensure your documentation will stand the test at ALL times not just prior to deployments.

Good luck to you out there that are deploying now and in the future.  Hope this may help you no mater where you are; home or abroad - here is the 2007 version  

To the Army.ca staff thank you for the opportunity to post what I feel and hope you do too a useful tool


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## Fusilier (23 Sep 2007)

Posted previously - this is an updated copy

To All who have read previous versions of this.  I try to update as the regulations change to make this a useful document.  I appreciate comments and suggestions as I feel it only can improve the overall content.  Remember this is not any kind of official publication, just me trying to look after my guys & girls  

When I first posted this in 2005 may people found it useful, at that time I had a couple of tours under my belt and already lengthy service with the combat arms.  I have now been back from Afghanstan for a year, as chief clerk of the TF 1-06 Infantry Battle Group myself and my staff saw first hand how important things like PEN forms, SDB etc are.  

Please, please people, take the time to ask questions and fill these things out properly.  This document is intended as a guide, use it and ask questions of your admin staff.  It does not just apply to operational tours but your day to day service as you never know what may happen.

My son is currently going through BMQ, and hopes to become an infanteer in the regiment I served with and my husband served with.  We are very proud of him.  Before he left I sat him down and reviewed this document and he said "mom, I don't have a wife and kids yet" and I said "no, but you still have family, you can't put a PO box number as our address on your PEN form, how will the assisting officer find me if they need to?"   I know that in the future he will be going somewhere, maybe not to Afghanistan but most likely somewhere like it.  

All I can say everyone is, I've seen it from all sides.  Lost good friends and watched as things were more difficult for their families than they should have been.  Work with your admin staff, educate yourselves on your entitlements and what is available to you and ensure your documentation will stand the test at ALL times not just prior to deployments.

Good luck to you out there that are deploying now and in the future.  Hope this may help you no mater where you are; home or abroad - here is the 2007 version  

To the Army.ca staff thank you for the opportunity to post what I feel and hope you do too a useful tool


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

Nice post Fusilier and good, useful info too.


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## Fusilier (23 Sep 2007)

Thanks Vern, I knw the last one was given the big blue thumb tack but I wanted to make sure the updated version is avail.


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

Fusilier said:
			
		

> Thanks Vern, I knw the last one was given the big blue thumb tack but I wanted to make sure the updated version is avail.



I just recommended the thumb tack for this one too. And now, off to shop.  ;D

Vern


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## aesop081 (23 Sep 2007)

Big blue thumb tack status is set....


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## IN HOC SIGNO (14 Nov 2007)

Excellent post and an excellent document. You told your son that the AO has to find him but it is usually the Padre who has to find folks first and the AO who follows shortly after.....I understand now in the Army that the AO and the Padre are going together as a Notification team. As one who has spent a lot of time trying to decipher the chicken scratch on a PEN form in the middle of the night only to find out that the NOK moved a year earlier I can support your advice to your son to have the forms up to date. After reading your document I must say it's time I updated my will....kids are grown and gone now and I'm proceeding on IR in January so there are a few things that should be updated etc.
Thanks for this it's an excellent resource.


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## Fusilier (14 Nov 2007)

IN HOC,

Thanks for your comments much appreciated.  I've heard there may be upcoming changes to the PEN form, and I hope so as I think we can definately make it better.  I've seen the US version, it's a 2 or 3 page doc but covers just about everything you would ever need as a form for your PERS file and to give your NOK as a referance.  I'm in the process of DAGing people now and trying to make them understand the importance of these docs is like talking to a brick wall!!  I will (beat them if I have to) make them understand!

"slap" - get going and update your will


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## Greymatters (14 Nov 2007)

Nice, could have used that a few years ago, too late now...

One question - on Page 8, it says MARTIAL BREAKDOWN EFFECTS ON BENEFITS - MEDICAL/DENTAL

Should that be 'marital' instead of 'martial'?


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## Fusilier (14 Nov 2007)

OMG....holy crap you are so right!  I'll correct my copy - thanks so much!!  so much for spell check! ;D


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## kincanucks (14 Nov 2007)

Are you comfortable with me printing some copies off to give to my soldiers, especially the new ones?


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## Fusilier (14 Nov 2007)

I have no problem with anyone using it.  Just remember it's not an official document, but is it my work and I do and will take responsibility for any omissions/errors.  My name is on it so just blame me  

The purpose is awareness and info, so plse feel free to use it if it's helpful


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## Mike Baker (14 Nov 2007)

Hm, I can use this in the future, thanks!


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## Greymatters (14 Nov 2007)

One question I did have was about the common-law marriage.  Your document says it is not recognized by the CF until one year has passed.  

I thought it used to be six months?  Is that right or has it always been one year?


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## IN HOC SIGNO (14 Nov 2007)

Fusilier said:
			
		

> IN HOC,
> 
> Thanks for your comments much appreciated.  I've heard there may be upcoming changes to the PEN form, and I hope so as I think we can definately make it better.  I've seen the US version, it's a 2 or 3 page doc but covers just about everything you would ever need as a form for your PERS file and to give your NOK as a referance.  I'm in the process of DAGing people now and trying to make them understand the importance of these docs is like talking to a brick wall!!  I will (beat them if I have to) make them understand!
> 
> "slap" - get going and update your will



No doubt. I've seen cases where the SDB goes to the mother because the member did his form when he was in Basic and never revised it when he married. that gave the family a lot of heartache after the fact. as mentioned the stories of us trying to find someone on the NOK form who has moved or the relationship has changed i.e. divorce etc are many. No one thinks they are ever going to die (denial) so of course it's not important to make proper plans and fill out the forms properly.
Got your slap...I'm all over it.


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## Gouki (14 Nov 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> One question I did have was about the common-law marriage.  Your document says it is not recognized by the CF until one year has passed.
> 
> I thought it used to be six months?  Is that right or has it always been one year?



6 months for civvie land, 1 year for us


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## Roy Harding (14 Nov 2007)

Fusilier:

When I was CC 3 VP I incorporated a similar document into my unit's Adm Instr - I stole it from 1 VP, I think - with permission.  This would have been in '02 - '03.  Would that have been your work as well?  If so, excellent work then and regardless if that old one was yours, excellent work now.


Roy


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## Greymatters (14 Nov 2007)

Steve said:
			
		

> 6 months for civvie land, 1 year for us



Does anyone know why it is 1 year then?  

I might have missed this as well, but does time away on tour still count towards co-habitation according to CF regs?  Im also interested in learning if this is being applied to reserve personnel who accept six month deployments - if they are away for a six month period, does that time count towards co-habitation, enabling new spousal benefits partway or after a tour?  I might have to address this with our company's HR department policies when discussing employee and spousal benefits.


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## navymich (15 Nov 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Does anyone know why it is 1 year then?
> 
> I might have missed this as well, but does time away on tour still count towards co-habitation according to CF regs?  Im also interested in learning if this is being applied to reserve personnel who accept six month deployments - if they are away for a six month period, does that time count towards co-habitation, enabling new spousal benefits partway or after a tour?  I might have to address this with our company's HR department policies when discussing employee and spousal benefits.



Check out  this thread for more references on Common Law.

Ref:  CFAO 19-41 para 5


> 5.     The continuous period of at least one year referred to in subparagraph
> (2)(c) of  QR&O 1.075 may include periods of involuntary separation for
> such reasons as temporary duty, attached posting or unaccompanied posting
> (eg, a six-month UN tour). However, the couple must have resided together
> as husband and wife during the remainder of the one-year period .


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## Fusilier (15 Nov 2007)

Roy, yup that was me (1 VP 1996-2007).  I sent it out to all the Bde units to make use of if they wished.  Thanks for the comments!


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## Roy Harding (15 Nov 2007)

Fusilier said:
			
		

> Roy, yup that was me (1 VP 1996-2007).  I sent it out to all the Bde units to make use of if they wished.  Thanks for the comments!



You're welcome - forward them to your boss for PER points!!


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## Fusilier (15 Nov 2007)

Ha ha, don't know if it would get me anywhere.  Besides, didn't do it for points but to "enlighten" and educate my Pl Comds, the original draft was put out in 1999.  I did submit it to the Bde as something that may be more useful if it was an official booklet (like the Pregnancy and the CF booklet) but nothing came of it.  Maybe I'll try again


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## Greymatters (15 Nov 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> Check out  this thread for more references on Common Law.
> 
> Ref:  CFAO 19-41 para 5



Excellent, thanks for the assist.


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## 3VP Highlander (15 Nov 2007)

Fusilier

Thanks for the updated info.  It will be very handy for a lot of our new soldiers.


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## CHIEF MILITARY PERSONNEL (28 Jun 2008)

If forms are not up to date, nothing can be done; the policy is clear given the huge sums of monies that can be involved in some cases - what is on any form, regardless of the date on the form, is taken as the "last wishes and the direction" of our men and women in uniform.  The leadership must remind, on a regular basis, the men and women under its command to keep these forms up to date. Aside from the PEN form, another good example of a forum that needs to be kept up to date is the Memorial Cross form.   

Ws

MOD EDIT: took the blue out so it could be read.
Bruce


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## Fusilier (2 Jul 2008)

CMP,

Are you making a comment on content?  Ie; something that must be updated, if so please specify where in the document so that I may amend it.

Understood, we must accept the forms as they are, however members must also accept responsibility for themselves and be an active participant in their own administration.  As administrators all we can do is remind, nag etc both the chain of command and members to ensure their info is kept up to date.  Document review must be done a minimum of once a year, orderly rooms must ensure that their change of marital status checklists (as per A-PM-245) is updated to include new forms etc as they are introduced.  A standardized method of filing particular forms must be followed (ie; PA'd to the left side of the UPF for forms that require regular review).  There are many things that can be done and should be done however in the growing piles of administration the importance of these documents sometimes seem to be lost, that is from my experience in receiving files.


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## vonGarvin (27 Jun 2009)

*BUMP AGAIN*
Hi all, I tried the MFRC and no luck.  I'm looking for someplace (Oromocto) where I can drop off the kids around 7 am and pick them up around 5 pm, though some days sooner.  They are two girls: 12 and 8 (turning 9 in July).  They are low maintenance; however, just a wee too young to be home alone all day long.  

Hints?  Anyone know anyone?

Thanks in advance.


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## Celticgirl (30 Jun 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> *BUMP AGAIN*
> Hi all, I tried the MFRC and no luck.  I'm looking for someplace (Oromocto) where I can drop off the kids around 7 am and pick them up around 5 pm, though some days sooner.  They are two girls: 12 and 8 (turning 9 in July).  They are low maintenance; however, just a wee too young to be home alone all day long.
> 
> Hints?  Anyone know anyone?
> ...



The Oromocto MFRC has a binder full of names of local childcare providers, their contact info, and what they charge per day. I just found summer childcare for my daughter this way. Good luck!


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## IntelGirl (8 Jul 2009)

Hello everyone,

I have finally made the decision to join the CF in about 1.5 years. Why so long from now? Because I am a single mother...and to be honest planning your child's care isn' easy. My mother has graciously volunteered to take my daughter for my BMQ training, but I am left wondering...what happens after that?

I talked to a local recruiter and he said after training was finished, he sees no reason why she couldn't live on base with me, however I don't know how that would work! I guess it's the only part I am really concerned about...

I'm wondering how many single parents without the full support of the other parent have joined and how they managed?


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## armyvern (8 Jul 2009)

Single parenting in the CF

Family Responsibilities in the CF

Single parenting in the CF - a personal story

*Leaving Children for trg etc - a merged thread*

Don't take this the wrong way, but ...

Just a couple on topic threads that a search managed to find for me.


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## PMedMoe (8 Jul 2009)

How do single parents do anything without the support of another parent?  The military is not that different from any other job with the exception of _possibly_ being away more.  I just hope you're not applying for a trade that has a tendency to be away a lot (e.g. Navy on ships).

When you get posted to a base you will be able to live in PMQs, rent on the civvy side or even buy a house, so there is no reason your daughter cannot live with you.  Just ensure you have a good family care plan set up.  Check the links that Army Vern provided, I'm sure there's lots of info in them.


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## Sea King Tech (9 Aug 2009)

I am wondering how the rest of you out there operate when you have a sick kid.  Lets say your kid wakes up sick and cannot go to school, your spouse has to go to work, or is allready at work and you are stuck.  You can't bring a sicko to work, not can you leave him/her unattended, not that you would want to anyway.

Options are:
-Leave pass backdated when you get back to work
-call in sick
-Arrange a short leave day from your CO, with all the hassle this entails.  

I am just looking at examples from other milpers out there. 
What I do for my guys is this:
-Day off under the table for a first time thing
-2nd day, leave pass
And go from there.........your thoughts?


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Aug 2009)

Ummm...what about the Family Care Plan?  Isn't that supposed to be in place to cover stuff like this?


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## Sea King Tech (9 Aug 2009)

****_NOR _ can you leave him/her unattended**** spelling


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## Sea King Tech (9 Aug 2009)

I thought family care plans were for deployments, not sudden things.  I had 4 months notice before deploying to get my FCP up and running.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Aug 2009)

Hmm...I am sure every unit has it own policy.  My last unit, one of the LS used to get LOTS of grief over this exact topic.  Single dad, 2 small boys, family in a different province.


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## PMedMoe (9 Aug 2009)

Most units _should_ ensure that people have a care giver lined up for situations such as this.


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## George Wallace (9 Aug 2009)

???

Have you contacted your boss about this?  Every unit I have been with, this is a no brainer; call your boss and explain the situation and see what (s)he says and follow those instructions.


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## navymich (9 Aug 2009)

It is going to depend on your job and your unit.  If it's a position that's easy enough to call in sick for a day here and there, it's all good.  Positions like shift workers that are counting on specific numbers so the off-coming crew can go home, it might be a bit trickier.

Bring it up with your supervisor BEFORE something occurs and see how they want you to handle it.  If it's not a common occurrence, they might be fine with a day off here and there.  The same type of situation comes up in winter too when the buses are canceled and schools closed.

Check with a neighbour or family member ahead of time and have a list of names you can call at last minute notice.  Make sure they are aware that it could be a sick child and that they are able to come to your house.  Your MFRC might have a list of caregivers too that work on an on-call basis.  Good luck.


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## Gunner98 (9 Aug 2009)

In my experience as a supervisor:

Day 1 - no problem - someone will cover for you, same as if you were sick
Day 2- can spouse take the day off to balance time away from work between parents, if not same as Day 1 decision as long as individual is not tasked
Day 3 or more - you are looking at annual leave or may be compassionate leave depending on illness and expected duration

As for the Family Care Plan - it is for the situations where the member will be absent from the home for duty reasons (not vice versa).

DAOD 5044-1: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5044-1-eng.asp

Excerpt:

The purpose of the family care plan (FCP) is to:

- assist members with planning for family care needs in the event of an absence for duty reasons; and
- apprise commanding officers (COs) of potential difficulties regarding family care needs that may be encountered by some members in the event of an absence for duty reasons.

Preparation and Amendment of the FCP

All Regular Force and Primary Reserve members who are responsible for providing financial, health care or other support to a family member shall prepare an FCP, fully taking into account all family care circumstances which could prevent an absence for duty reasons.

Members shall consider all possible scenarios of absence for duty reasons, including emergency call-outs, domestic and international operational deployments, collective and individual training, and short-term duty requirements.

Members shall review and amend their FCP:

- on posting when initially reporting to a new unit;
- as their family care circumstances change; and
- during the deployment preparation process.

There may be situations in which a member is required to be absent for duty reasons and breakdown of the FCP is beyond the control of the member. However, a member who does not in good faith fully take into account all known family care circumstances in the preparation of the FCP may be subject to administrative and/or disciplinary action.


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## X-mo-1979 (9 Aug 2009)

Depends on the guy and what were doing.If were sitting around with our thumbs inserted elsewhere,he can stay the heck home.(note not all guys...just the good workers).Depending on the severity I would direct him to compassionate leave,so I could inform higher instead of low key buck sheet days.

Crap workers can pay for child care.


If you want soldiers to work for yah treat em well at home.If they lie or mess about HAMMER THEM!

Is it fair? Nope. Neither is life.

That's my leadership principle.Those who work get rewarded.You wouldn't believe how soldiers never want to be the lazy one.


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## armyvern (10 Aug 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Depends on the guy and what were doing.If were sitting around with our thumbs inserted elsewhere,he can stay the heck home.(note not all guys...just the good workers).Depending on the severity I would direct him to compassionate leave,so I could inform higher instead of low key buck sheet days.
> 
> Crap workers can pay for child care.
> 
> ...



Good luck having a charge stick to the "lazy worker" who gives you the old "fuck you" when you attempt to dole out your double standard to him when his kid's sick and he stays home ... you've already set the precedent by allowing others to ~ that will be the precedent that sticks. As it should.

Like his sick kid has anything to do with or any say over how his dad/mom performs at work. If you worked for me and you were pulling this BS, it wouldn't be for long. Sits like this are exactly the reason that Units are supposed to have policies in place, equally applied - that's what standards are for.

Guy's a poor worker? We have other standards applicable in that situation and actual approved methods of dealing with and correcting those problems - which _would_ be your job as the supervisor to ensure happens. 

I love guys like you that hold grudges. Grudges are good in some circumstances, not in others. "Hammer them year-round with shit like this" then hammer them on their PERs too ... then wonder why they have no desire to perform for you. I just give mine their extras - and it's done with; happens again? Then we have IC, RW, C&P to go through in hopes of correcting that poor performance (or whatever sit). That's my job - to correct poor performance -- it sure isn't to fuck my troops (even the poor performers) over and over again every which way I can to keep the other ones performing because they don't want to be "that guy". Correct "that guy" properly and have them all performing ~ I was quite sure that _that_ was the actual goal.

And speaking of people putting stupid stuff in their profiles --- nice one.  :


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## Sea King Tech (10 Aug 2009)

Thanks for your input everybody.  I appreciate your varying points of view.  I tend to have a softer hand when my people's kids are sick.  For me specifically, my boss tells me that I will have a blank, signed leave pass in my UER for when my kids is sick and I am stuck.

I am OK with this, is this the standard for others out there?  I aggree that if mom/dad is a slacker at work then the child should not be punished.


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## CountDC (10 Aug 2009)

good post Vern - with you all the way. 

From my experience a crappy worker usually means a crappy boss.  A good boss deals with the sit properly and either the crappy worker straightens out or leaves - via AR for failing C&P.

I have had this sit for both myself and the people working for me - a day or two is covered bucksheet, anything longer will require leave.  Most supervisors I know of will work this way although I did have one that insisted on leave passes for any time away.  Mind you, he also tried the FCP routine on me when my wife was hospitalized and I requested annual leave. Took the chief to get it through to him that the FCP was not for the this.


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## Tewkster (10 Aug 2009)

If my subordinates have a sick child or even spouse at home, I have no problems letting them take a sick day to take care of that family member.  My policy is not to abuse it and everyone is happy.  I agree that anything more than 2 days would require annual or compassionate leave.


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## X-mo-1979 (10 Aug 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Good luck having a charge stick to the "lazy worker" who gives you the old "frig you" when you attempt to dole out your double standard to him when his kid's sick and he stays home ... you've already set the precedent by allowing others to ~ that will be the precedent that sticks. As it should.
> 
> Like his sick kid has anything to do with or any say over how his dad/mom performs at work. If you worked for me and you were pulling this BS, it wouldn't be for long. Sits like this are exactly the reason that Units are supposed to have policies in place, equally applied - that's what standards are for.
> 
> ...



I have had but one issue yet.He was also sent packing home from deployment.Why the heck would I bend over backwards for someone who only wants to sit around,play the system,and take as much time off as he can.Yes I do hold grudges,however I don't hold other peoples grudges...I.E "hey that soldier is a piece of work"I make my own assessment on people.Everyone gets a fresh start.

Some people you can't reach.you can have them on extras during their whole B.E.It doesn't matter.

Fact is I don't or ever will work for you.And no one has had a issue with the way I have ever treated those below me.

If the same guy is saying he cant do this or do that and backing out of taskings right left and center.There is no way I am doing anything to help him out.He is Fing other troops and destroying morale.I have zero tolerance for lazy self serving troops.

Ever tried to charge someone who is constantly backing out of obligations? Impossible.

Either way your 100% right.And as well I apologize for putting in that about stupid stuff in peoples profile. I should appreciate that someone was on OP____ and got a accommodation for most garbage picked up.

Apologize again.


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## armyvern (10 Aug 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> If the same guy is saying he cant do this or do that and backing out of taskings right left and center.There is no way I am doing anything to help him out.He is Fing other troops and destroying morale.I have zero tolerance for lazy self serving troops.
> 
> *Ever tried to charge someone who is constantly backing out of obligations? Impossible.*
> 
> ...



Constantly?? That's where that old IC, RW and C&P come into play. No need to be constant about it --- just need to do it 3 times.   Then ... he's out the door for being an adminstrative nightmare who has failed to sort out his admin and affairs to an acceptable standard which allows him to perform his duties when and as required. This can occur within a BE - who says and since when have pers have to be kept for their entire BE? Been there - done that.

As I already stated, there's a proper way to do things. If you have a troop who is doing something "constantly"  as you've stated above and you have not yet issued the appropriate level of progressive official admin actions ... you aren't doing your job as a supervisor and the fact that buddy is still "backing out of obligations constantly" is an item that he's being allowed to get away with. There does indeed exist some rules in the CF about keeping your admin and affairs in order so that you can perform your duties as required and obligated to do. Do your job and deal with it properly and officially --- you'd be surprised at the improvement in morale of your other troops actually doing your job will garner and, as an extra bonus, dipshits performance may actually improve ... wow. I too have zero tolerance for people too lazy to do their jobs properly (and officially) ... especially at supervisory rank levels where they're supposedly paid enough and experienced enough to know better.

And, you're correct, perhaps no one who works for you has an issue with how you do business (ie: how you apply your double-standard) except perhaps the guy who's on the other end of your double-standard ... and you are quite fine in continuing it ... you won't lose until the receiver, like I said earlier, gives you the old "fuck you" one day when you tell him too bad - it is then that you'll lose the fight officially if you try to punish him for it - your precedent already set with the others will see to that.

As for the 2nd bold bit ... why yes I suppose, buddy just wrote himself up for a Commendation ...  : You may not like the fact he got one, but not something that is the member's doing is it? Why begrudge them for it? Put the blame (as _you_ see it) where it more properly lies.


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## mech16 (1 Oct 2009)

I have to say that this topic caused me to get a log in and I do have to apologize for the long post it is a topic that I have strong feelings about, both as a supervisor and a parent.

Background 
1. SrNCO so I'm a supervisor.
2. My spouse is also a military member. This means obviously neither of us is a stay at home parent.
3. I'm the senior member both in rank and time in (TI for those acronym nuts)
4. We have 3 small kids age 6,3,1

Well I agree that FCP is there for absence from work for duty related reasons I have had way to many supervisors and officers tell me that we have to use it for those other problems like a sick kid etc...  Some people have relatives living in other provinces as their FCP backups.  This is normally done for many reasons, financial cost and knowing someone you trust and have a relationship with will be looking after your kids in an emergency.  This is not always a plan that can be put in place in a morning, this is why the MFRC has programs to help bridge the time between when you have to leave for duty reasons (very short notice) and when the FCP can be fully put in place.  They also have plans for emergencies if you need help, i.e. loss your caregiver unexpectedly and need some time to locate a new one.  I have accessed these programs twice in the last 4 months and even they can take awhile to get into place, possibly a few days depending on the urgency and requirements, the more kids you have the harder it seems to find a perfect/acceptable solution.

If you also look in DAOD's QR&O's and the new leave policy manual you will find ref to CO's can grant up to 2 days sick leave (note it does not specify how many times in a month this can be granted unlike short leave etc..)  but there is no guidance or examples of acceptable practise in guiding this policy. This leads to very wide and different interpretations through out the military.  Some units allow you to call in sick while other insist you go to the UMS / MIR every single time.  There are even units that let you call in if your kids or spouse is sick.

In the mid to late 90's when the policies started changing the unit I was with at the time allowed people to call in, of course we had to police the policy and unsure they were not abusing it.  Most recently units I have been with have made me use annual days for sick kids.  There was even rumors about a CANFORGEN, CANELECTGEN or some form of paper orders on the topic but after years of looking for them no luck so far.

Now to the actual problems.
1. Most major coporations and unions (yes the forbidden word) have policies that allow for family days or call in sick.  Even some military units have it published in RO's how they handle the situation.  Rules and regulations are clearly laid out and in some cases certain flexability is even laid out also.
2. If your kids are sick they can not go to school.  If they get sick at school you have to go pick them up. It is in pretty much all schools rule books.
3. If your kids are sick they can not go to daycare or the babysitters. Most places make you sign papers acknowledging this rule.
4. If your daycare provider / babysitter is sick they normally will not take any kids for that day.
5. Alot of families now are 2 income families so good luck finding someone who is a stay at home spouse that will want to look after sick kids especially if they have their own. They can not afford to be sick anymore than you can.
6. If you have to call in an outside agency, aka a professional caregiver agency, they may or may not be willing to or even able to on short notice  (30min or less) come look after sick kids.  Now add the fact of at least $*25* an hour cost for them.  Sick kids 2 days = lots of money about $500 or so in most cases.
7. If you need to take annual days everytime a kids is sick you may end up with none left over for the actual purpose of leave which is to rest and recover and to spend with your family developing and strengthening those bonds so they are in place when you are away for duty reasons.
8. YOU CAN NOT PLAN WHEN YOUR KIDS ARE SICK - unable to plan for every problem and plans made today may not be good when you need to implement them. That neighbor who said they could look after the kids may be on holiday, sick themself, or even started work somewhere else.

So all this to say I believe the only way to solve this is for the system to be clarified, actually get direction from higher (maybe even the CDS) on the policy, to many differences in policy interpretations cause problems with moral and feelings of resentment may build up.  Because lets face it if your buddy across the road in another unit is getting to call in sick and gets sick days to look after his kids and you have to go to the UMS everytime and your unit makes you take annual days to look after your kids you are not going to be very happy.  I have seen SrNCO's who love their job and are hardworkers turn in their release paperwork over this.

The FCP and the MFRC has come along way in helping both the member and the forces to deal with family emergencies but I feel they are more focused on the long term solutions like serious illnesses and deployments, not the short term like the flu or 1-2 days loss of childcare or things like unexpected school closures.

Just to touch on the topic of the "lazy worker" you will not get any better performance out of them if they feel like they are being "hammered" all the time, this leads to administration problems for the supervisor and worse. This is not to say you can not put the carrot in front of them saying that the harder they work for you the harder you will work for them.  Sometimes this may include being creative in creating flexability in a inflexible system.

If you want to even add more fuel onto the discussion.  
1. What do you do when your work says no and you have exhausted all options and not found a babysitter ? Take them to work ?
2. What about medical appointments for the kids ? are they any less important than yours ?

How do I handle the situation now, well it calls for creativity now and sometimes asking for forgiveness after the fact.  I take the brunt of this alot but I will look after my troops and this includes family whenever I can but I expect stuff back from them.  Work hard and play hard.


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## Papa_Jim (9 Oct 2009)

@ Simian Turner

Umm.  It is your duty to show up at work.  You kid is sick.  The Family Care Plan exists to ensure your family is taken care of for "Duty" reasons.

That is, make sure you have a plan for when your kids are sick.  I am a single father of 3 boys.  I have a plan which involves several different people.  Yes it is a pain in the butt, but you have a DUTY to do.

I have seen, done, and allowed all manner of things - as the work had to get done including working from home, using leave, bringing kids to work etc.

I am no hardass on this but certainly it is up to you to figure your family out.  The CF didn't issue you the family.

Should you consistently fail to be able to look after your family I would be applying remedial measures to you for your failure to adapt to the needs of service life.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Oct 2009)

Papa_Jim said:
			
		

> @ Simian Turner
> 
> Umm.  It is your duty to show up at work.  You kid is sick.  The Family Care Plan exists to ensure your family is taken care of for "Duty" reasons.
> 
> ...



Tone down your attitude, here and on the rest of the board. Your points may be valid, but you don't have to be so condecending to get them across.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Muttenthaler (23 Sep 2011)

I'm going to forward this doc to some of my "clerk-net". I can't believe you took the time to draft an SOP for doc updating, I admire your work ethic.

As a reminder to all those reading this thread, see your clerks to make sure that your docs are updated. In many cases, the clerks forget, and/or need the practice anyway  Just cross your t's and dot your i's and you'll find that policy will work in your favour 9 times out of 10.


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## chappyk (16 Nov 2011)

Hey Guys:

I'm in the Navy and I've been landed because of having recently becoming separated and now being a single father.  I have put in  memo for a compassionate land posting for 2 years.  Someone just told me today that if I do not have a family care plan in place and can't sail....that I could be released?  Can anyone comment on this?


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

I don't know about being released, but IIRC, every CF member with children must have a family care plan.


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## chappyk (16 Nov 2011)

Hmm, today was the first I've ever heard of it and I've been in for a year.  We have no family here, but I'll have to look into this tomorrow.


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

I'll wager your former spouse wasn't in the military.


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## chappyk (16 Nov 2011)

no, why?


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

That's why you never heard of the family care plan.  Now, you're a single father, you have to have means in place to look after your children in the case of deployment, etc.


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## chappyk (16 Nov 2011)

oh, okay. I'll check it out tomorrow, thanks


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

See your clerk.


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## Pusser (17 Nov 2011)

Keep in mind that your family situation has changed rather suddenly; therefore, your family care plan needs to be updated.  The CF needs to give you time to do that.  Can you be released for not having a family care plan?  In a sense, yes, but it takes a considerable amount of time to do that.  We don't kick you out overnight because of a change of circumstances.  It's only if it becomes a cronic problem that we start looking at that option.

Compassionate postings exist specifically to deal with temporary problems and to give you a chance to resolve them.  The assumption is that you will fix the problem within the period of the posting (i.e. two to three *years*).  Asking for a compassionate posting is a good first step.  Keep going with that and start on fixing the situation.

Who told you that you could be released for not having a Family Care Plan?  He/she is being alarmist.  It's not that simple.  There are many hoops to jump through before that happens.  It is your Divisional System's job to help you through this.


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## chappyk (20 Nov 2011)

Thank you Pusser, I feel a bit better and will take steps to ensure my family care plan is updated.  I certainly had no intentions of starting my new career this way.  But my daughter needs to be helped.


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## Jarnhamar (27 Aug 2014)

Does anyone know if there is some kind of rule regarding the amount of notice a chain of command has to give a soldier in order to have her show up at work at a timing she isn't accustomed to?

For example if a soldier's normal timing for work is 07:30am can the CoC message her the night before and tell her she has to show up the next day at 05:30hrs for some kind of fast ball tasking when the member has children they would need to find last minute care for?

I could have sworn there was a 2 day notice rule for something like this but I can't find a reference for it.


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## hotei (27 Aug 2014)

Is the individual on call?


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## George Wallace (27 Aug 2014)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if there is some kind of rule regarding the amount of notice a chain of command has to give a soldier in order to have her show up at work at a timing she isn't accustomed to?
> 
> For example if a soldier's normal timing for work is 07:30am can the CoC message her the night before and tell her she has to show up the next day at 05:30hrs for some kind of fast ball tasking when the member has children they would need to find last minute care for?
> 
> I could have sworn there was a 2 day notice rule for something like this but I can't find a reference for it.




You are joking; right?


They can call you up in the middle of the night and tell you to be into work immediately.  It is called an Alert Recall/Bug Out/Snowball/and a number of other names.


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## Jarnhamar (27 Aug 2014)

hotei said:
			
		

> Is the individual on call?



No.




			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> You are joking; right?
> 
> 
> They can call you up in the middle of the night and tell you to be into work immediately.  It is called an Alert Recall/Bug Out/Snowball/and a number of other names.



Nope not joking, I think you're wrong too.  I believe there is also a different between a unit bug out and an 8pm phone call saying you have to be at work 2 hours early tomorrow for some last minute tasking that just came up, good luck finding someone to take your kids.


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## George Wallace (27 Aug 2014)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Nope not joking, I think you're wrong too.  I believe there is also a different between a unit bug out and an 8pm phone call saying you have to be at work 2 hours early tomorrow for some last minute tasking that just came up, good luck finding someone to take your kids.



Sorry that you feel this way.  This is the military.  Circumstances can not be predicted all the time and last minute taskings or emergencies do arise.  Someone has to do the work, and if it means calling someone in to do it, it will be done.   People are going "out the door" all the time and support personnel have to ensure that they do so as smoothly as possible.  Your question really does not sound like you understand that circumstances like this happen in the military.

Really sorry that you don't understand this and that your soldier doesn't understand it as well.


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## PuckChaser (27 Aug 2014)

She must work at my unit. Any change in timings is "Family Care Plan". I'm under the impression Family Care Plan is for emergencies, not activating it and causing financial hardship because someone wants to start a ruck march at 0715 instead of 0700.


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## Jarnhamar (27 Aug 2014)

George, be honest, I don't think you're sorry at all 

PuckChaser, exactly.  Putting a child or three in emergency care because a MCpl wants to do a last minute rucksack march an hour earlier doesn't seem acceptable to me.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Aug 2014)

Tell her to disconnect her answering machine when she gets home and start using caller ID to screen her calls.

There's a massive world of difference between an Alert Recall/Bug Out/Snowball/and a number of other names where a Unit or Base is participating and a power tripping MCpl's assfuckery.


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## Jay4th (28 Aug 2014)

I think some units are using soldiers'  "Family care plan" as an excuse for their own poor planning.  As a supervisor, here is an example;  I call someone at 2000hrs because a morning timing has been moved up 2hrs or because I need an HLVW driver for a last minute 0500hrs task and they said "Warrant, I can't drop the kids off at daycare before 0700hrs and the babysitter that is my "family care plan" is away this week."  I respond with, no problem, I will find someone else this time.

Like it or not, family dynamics have changed.  There is no pool of soldiers having a beer on the couch in the PMQs ready to go at a moments notice because their homemaker wives are there to look after the kids.  The wives work too now, and have jobs that are even less flexible than ours, or she is in the CAF as well, and her supervisor expects to come first occasionally as well.

When a unit takes over IRU, and soldiers are going over their kit in the unit lines making sure it is good to go, they then go home and do their best to verify a working emergency family care plan is in place but this isnt easy, and is rarely a permanent arrangement.

Fanouts, bug outs, quick trains, etc. are an exercise of the system to see who and how many you can get on short notice.  This is a study for the planning process.  It is unrealistic to think you will get everyone in.

Any CO I've had in recent memory put the working hours in the Standing Orders and reserved the ability to bring soldiers in early at his level or perhaps delegated to Coy OC level.


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## Rheostatic (3 Dec 2015)

Given that this is still pinned, any chance we'll see an update?


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## neacha67 (20 Sep 2017)

How can I view the document? Sorry I don't see any links.
Thanks!!


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## neacha67 (20 Sep 2017)

This just brings me to the beginning of the tread. I can not see a document link. Sorry this is my first time here am I missing something?
Thanks!


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## PuckChaser (20 Sep 2017)

File was likely a dead link, I noticed on the bottom one of the DS staff here edited the original post in May. Unless you can contact that original poster, its likely gone.


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## McG (20 Sep 2017)

This site had a problem of severing the link between up-loaded files and the post that they were uploaded with.  I have not noticed it happen in a while, but there are several older posts that no longer contain the attachment they reference and other older posts that do not make sense because a once embedded (but not explicitly mentioned) picture attachment no longer says its thousand + words


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## neacha67 (20 Sep 2017)

Sounds good! I thought I was blind lol


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## NavyShooter (21 Sep 2017)

I have contacted the OP by SEPCOR to see if he can provide an update or new version of this file. 

He did, however, retire relatively recently.

NS


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## neacha67 (24 Sep 2017)

Thank you!!


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## ontheedge (11 Oct 2018)

Hey folks, curious to hear from dads or moms out there who have kids.  What ages, do you/can you bring them with you out on parade nights, etc.  if you can't find daycare, have you brought your kids to Remembrance Day events and made them stay beside a tree.  
Basically interested in hearing about how you managed your kids.
Also is there open mic nights where you can take your kids to tour different armouries (besides the regular open-to-the-public nights).

TIA


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