# Airbus in Flat Spin ?



## tomahawk6 (10 Oct 2006)

If Airbus wasnt supported by so many governments it would have gone into bankruptcy. Christian Streiff tried to save the company but the French government evidently felt the price was too high.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5934



> “I progressively came to the conviction that the governance of Airbus did not allow my plan to succeed,” Streiff said in an interview to appear in French daily Le Figaro’s Tuesday edition.


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## a_majoor (10 Oct 2006)

Without too much "pot calling the kettle black", most aerospace companies are on some sort of government life support. Perhaps Boeing is one of the few companies which "could" survive on it's commercial airliner business, but a very large fraction of its business is in the military products. The fact that the vast majority of the military products were designed and built by companies which no longer exist outside of Boeing's corporate framework should be a warning sign that the defence contractor business isn't viable in the current form.

Of course,looking at Bombardier, you don't even have to be too much into defence contracting to fall into that trap......


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## tomahawk6 (10 Oct 2006)

The problem I see with Airbus is that the government did not want to fight the unions to help the bottom line. Sacking Streiff was easier than fixing the problems. The US car companies are very much like Airbus, except the unions dont have anywhere near the clout that they do in France.


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## DBA (11 Oct 2006)

From what I understand different versions of design software were in use at different locations and changes could not propagate between them in real time due to incompatibilities. Since just about any change also effects wiring it accumulated the most problems. 

Bloomberg Article on Airbus 380


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## Genetk44 (11 Oct 2006)

DBA.....if that Bloomberg article is correct I find it very unsettleing....course I had no plans to ever get on that big white whale at all.
I've never, speaking only as a fare-paying passenger, liked the Airbus aircraft anyways. Just my opinion.
Gene


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## dapaterson (12 Oct 2006)

Genetk44 said:
			
		

> I've never, speaking only as a fare-paying passenger, liked the Airbus aircraft anyways. Just my opinion.



My preferences lie with airlines, not aircraft.  The internal finish and sardine conditions are dictated by the airline, not the manufacturer.  If you want service and some legroom (even in economy!) try Emirates or Singapore Airlines.  Personally, I'd fly in economy on anything with a SingAir tail long before I'd subject myself to the hostile indifference of an Air Canada cabin crew...


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## Genetk44 (12 Oct 2006)

dapaterson....I tend to agree with you but since this thread was dealing with a manufacturer and not airlines or their staff...or service....


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## COBRA-6 (12 Oct 2006)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> My preferences lie with airlines, not aircraft.  The internal finish and sardine conditions are dictated by the airline, not the manufacturer.  If you want service and some legroom (even in economy!) try Emirates or Singapore Airlines.  Personally, I'd fly in economy on anything with a SingAir tail long before I'd subject myself to the hostile indifference of an Air Canada cabin crew...



Emirates was good, but Thai was outstanding!

I would rather be shipped in a dog crate on a russian cargo plane than fly Air Canada.


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## KevinB (12 Oct 2006)

COBRA-6 said:
			
		

> Emirates was good, but Thai was outstanding!
> 
> I would rather be shipped in a dog crate on a russian cargo plane than fly Air Canada.



+1 for Emirates - makes the trip from London to Dub bearable.

However you aint getting me on a Russia A/C at all
  Sorry it makes the the CF's worn Herc look new...


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## a78jumper (19 Oct 2006)

On the other hand Emirates puts 10 across in their 777s that fly from LHR to DXB, when just about every other major uses 9 across.  I agree their service was pretty good however.


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## GAP (8 Nov 2006)

Fedex ditches Airbus for Boeing   
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6126206.stm 

Fedex has cancelled its order for Airbus aircraft and switched its order to rival Boeing instead. 
Fedex Express said it had cancelled its order for 10 Airbus A380-800F superjumbo because of delivery delays. 

Instead it has ordered 15 Boeing 777 freighters - to be delivered between 2009 and 2011 - and has an option to take a further 10 aircraft. 

Airbus said it regretted the decision but understood Fedex's "need to urgently address capacity issues". 

Shares in Airbus owner EADS closed more than 3% lower on the French stock exchange on the news. 

'Best decision' 

"The availability and delivery timing of this aircraft, coupled with its attractive payload range and economics, make this choice the best decision for Fedex," Fedex chairman and chief executive Frederick W Smith said of the decision to swap to Boeing. 
More on link

*In addition:*

Virgin defers A380 by four years  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6089198.stm

The past two years have been dark times for the A380 project 
Virgin Atlantic is to defer its order for the new Airbus A380 by four years. 
The airline had ordered six of the new superjumbos for delivery in 2009, but now wants to delay their arrival until 2013. 

The project has been dogged by repeated delays, which have cost senior managers their jobs and led to big customers threatening to renegotiate orders. 

There had been speculation that Virgin would ditch the A380, but the firm says it still has confidence in the plane. 

Virgin is now arguing that it wants the aircraft to prove itself in commercial service for several years before it puts its own A380s into operation. 

The airline is now extending its leases on a number of Boeing 747-400 jumbo jets to cover the delay.
More on link


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## I_am_John_Galt (8 Nov 2006)

*Still More:*

Airbus woes hit parent firm EADS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6127492.stm

Airbus-owner EADS has reported a net loss for the July to September period after it was hit by problems with its giant A380 passenger jet. 
EADS reported a net loss of 195m euros ($250m; £131m) during the third quarter, against net income of 279m euros in the same period last year. 

The Franco-German defence and aerospace firm said charges relating to delays with the A380 had cost it 1bn euros. 

On Tuesday, Fedex ditched an order for the plane in favour of rival Boeing. 

The US logistics firm said it was cancelling its order for 10 Airbus A380-800F superjumbo freighters because of delivery delays, and was ordering 15 Boeing 777 freighters instead. 

EADS said it was awaiting decisions from two other Airbus A380 freighter customers, UPS and International Lease Finance Corporation, on whether they intended to go ahead with their orders. 
More after the jump


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## I_am_John_Galt (7 Mar 2007)

Implosion slowed only by the taxpayer ...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/03/the_airbus_tragedy.html


> *The Airbus Tragedy*
> By Thomas Lifson
> Like characters in an ancient Greek tragedy, players in the Airbus drama are betraying their fatal flaws, and moving, almost inevitably, toward a dénouement that will bring serious misfortune to all. Despite failure upon failure, no one is willing to suggest openly killing the troubled A 380 program, which seems to destined to drag down not just the still viable parts of the company, but also the workers, localities hosting factories, and even the governments of France and Germany.
> 
> ...


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## Signalman150 (7 Mar 2007)

Interesting; I saw GAPs post about FedEX cancelling their order and was surprised at the date because I thought I'd seen that article only a couple of days ago.  Seems it was deja-vu all over again.  UPS has done the same thing.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/02/business/web.0302-airbusclark.php



> UPS cancels Airbus A380 order
> By Nicola Clark
> 
> Friday, March 2, 2007
> ...



More on link.

I'd say that Airbus is sponsoring it's own deathrace to extinction.


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## a_majoor (8 Mar 2007)

I would suggest forwarding this thread to any person, reporter or Member of Parliament who opposes the C-17 or C-130J buy on the grounds that Airbus has a viable product in the (unyet built) A-400, or that we would get the hypothetical A-400 in any reasonable time frame...............


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## geo (8 Mar 2007)

Heh.... even if Airbus were to give asurances that we could get some A400s in a reasonnable time frame.... would you feel comfortable flying in em?

Airbus, a corporation that straddles several borders of the European union & where several governments meddle into it's activities.  A blueprint for disaster, followed by a bailout, folowed by another disaster, followed by another bailout, disaster, bailout, disaster, bailout........ etc,


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## MarkOttawa (8 Mar 2007)

The MND got out out of the lobbying business at the right time .

Mark
Ottawa


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## I_am_John_Galt (8 Mar 2007)

I have every confidence Airbus is capable of delivery in a "reasonable time frame," as long as one considers 2009 2012 2015 2020 to be a reasonable delivery date.


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## ArmyRick (8 Mar 2007)

Airbus, no thanks.


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## tomahawk6 (15 Mar 2007)

Airbus has problems with the unions now as the company wants to lay off workers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070315/bs_afp/franceeuropeaerospacecompanystructureairbuseads_070315063157

TOULOUSE, France (AFP) - Tens of thousands of workers at Airbus are expected to walk off the job Friday in a highly unusual show of Europe-wide union power against plans by the struggling aircraft manufacturer to slash 10,000 posts.

Trade unions predict tens of thousands of staff at all Airbus sites in Europe will down tools and hold protest meetings to increase pressure against the company's "Power8" restructuring scheme.

Such co-ordinated Europe-wide protests organised by trade unions are highly unusual.

In Hamburg, Germany, the powerful IG Metall union said it expected 10,000 demonstrators to converge on the city centre. An earlier day of protest in France on March 6 brought 12,000-15,000 people into the streets of Toulouse, southwest France, where Airbus is based, and unions there were expecting similar support.

In Britain, the Transport and General Workers' Union expected several thousand people to back a demonstration in Chester, near a factory at Broughton in Wales.

And in Spain, two unions, the CCOO and the UGT, have called on 9,000 workers at seven sites to protest.

Unions here issued a joint statement condemning "this restructuring plan which will have dramatic consequences but is not justified."

One union source objected in particular to "jobs being cut when work in hand is overflowing."

The protests are set against campaigning for a presidential election in France in which unemployment is a hot subject.

The company says that the crisis is "extremely serious" and that it can no longer delay making cost savings. But there is concern among analysts over whether the Airbus parent company, the aerospace group EADS, and Airbus will in fact be able to implement the full plan.

The cuts, together with the total or partial disposal of six sites, are intended to save 5.0 billion euros (6.6 billion dollars) by 2010 and pull the company out of a crisis caused by delays to the A380 superjumbo program, seen as critical to Airbus' bid to catch up with US rival Boeing.

EADS last week published results revealing a first-ever operating loss at Airbus of 572 million euros (752 million dollars) in 2006 in contrast to a profit of 2.3 billion euros in 2005.

But the group is also assuring customers and investors that it does not face an imminent cash crisis.

Announcement of details of the restructuring on February 28 came as campaigning in the presidential election in France in April and May intensified and amid tension between French and German interests over where cuts should fall.

It was also followed by signs of bickering between French and German unions.

Brokers Goldman Sachs, issuing a recommendation to its clients to buy shares in EADS, suggested on Monday that the "reduced" expectation for EADS "provides both a suitable backdrop for negotiations about Power8 with unions and politicians, especially in France."


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## GAP (15 Mar 2007)

And the Europeans never thought that they would rue the day they gave such power to their unions?

. ...I can't see Airbus pulling out this whole debacle without ending up being a skelton of it's former self.


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## MarkOttawa (16 Mar 2007)

AIRBUS HIT BY PROTESTS
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,472125,00.html



> Thousands March to Save Jobs
> 
> Airbus workers across Europe put down their tools and picked up picket signs on Friday to protest the company's restructuring plan. The plane maker wants to shed 10,000 jobs...



UPS will decide on Airbus order replacement in 2007
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ups-decide-airbus-order-replacement/story.aspx?guid=%7B29983815-8A70-40C0-8CD1-19B413BE144F%7D



> UPS...will decide on a replacement for the recently cancelled order for 10 Airbus A380 freight models, German weekly Euro am Sonntag writes Friday ahead of publication Sunday, citing UPS' Chief Financial Officer Scott Davis.
> 
> "A decision (on alternative orders) will be made by year-end," Euro am Sonntag cites Davis as saying.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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