# Reservists + Work



## Kitty88 (12 Sep 2012)

Hello,

I am currently working part-time and have just given my notice to my employer that I need some days off to do my Reservist Basic Training (told her as soon as I had information on dates).  She has been giving me a hard time about changing my availability and saying she just can't give me time off.  Part of me thinks this is extremely illegal... but I cannot find anything within the Ontario Labour Board about being able to take time off for Basic.  I have been working well over 6 months and have always given appropriate time for days needed off.

So I have been researching this for awhile and can only find under the Ontario Labour Board any information about Reservists and taking time off work (but it only says Inernational Operations outside of Canada or Operations within Canada).

If anyone can point me in the right direction or some help with this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Chels


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## jrst (12 Sep 2012)

I don't really have any advice to your original question, but keep in mind when you're looking up labour laws that sometimes there are different rules for part time employees compared to full time.  Hopefully she comes around and starts working with you


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## Kitty88 (12 Sep 2012)

Thanks Jrst!


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## Eaglelord17 (12 Sep 2012)

If you applied for that job and well getting hired you explained you have certain commitments to the reserves such as training requirements, then they hire you they have to oblige by them to a reasonable extent. If you join up in the reserves after your employed I believe your current employer doesn't have to accommodate you as that wasn't part of the original agreement. This is not illegal, you can go on course but if your scheduled to work and you don't show up they can just as easily fire you. It may seem unfair until you look at it from the employers perspective. They hired you and you've all of a sudden done a backflip on what your agreement was and you expect them to accommodate you? Your the one who took the second part time job and changed the agreement don't be surprised if they don't accommodate you at all, its not there responsibility its yours.


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## Kitty88 (12 Sep 2012)

Eagle, thanks for the reply.  I figured as much, although she did know that I was getting hired into the Reserves and I said I would eventually have to change my availability.  Guess I will have to play it out and see if I need to start pounding the pavement again.  Thanks.


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## Eaglelord17 (12 Sep 2012)

No problem best of luck


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## chrisf (12 Sep 2012)

Most provinces have job protection legislation, and most of the legislation has to do with "active deployments" as opposed to training.

I'm not absolutely familiar with Ontario's legislation, but there's likely nothing requiring them to give you time off for reserve training.

That being said, you may be able to get help via your chain of command from the Canadian Forces Liason Council (CFLC), while they can't force your employer to do anything, they can help you to show your employer the benefits of reserve training, and employing reservists.


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Sep 2012)

There is nothing in the law that requires an employer to give time for normal reserve training. Especially for part timers.

If they agree, good. If they don't, too bad, time to make a choice.

There's no other options.


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## mariomike (12 Sep 2012)

Kitty88 said:
			
		

> ... but I cannot find anything within the Ontario Labour Board about being able to take time off for Basic.



Reservist Leave
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/reservist.php


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Sep 2012)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Reservist Leave
> http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/reservist.php



Did you read the part of the OP's post that spoke to Basic? Regular reserve training?

Not Emergencies, not International Ops or all the other stuff mentioned in the first para of the link.

Basic friggin' Reserve training.

Please quit clouding and confusing the issues with all your links and stick to the subject(s).


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## Kitty88 (12 Sep 2012)

Appreciate the opinions.  Think I'll just have to bite the bullet if they decide to fire me 

Cheers


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## bridges (12 Sep 2012)

As 'a Sig Op' mentioned, the CFLC may be able to help.  There's some good introductory info & FAQ here, as well as a toll-free number:   http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/ees-pae/rr/rus-pau/rgees-greee-eng.asp

They also have summaries of each province's job protection legislation here: http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/jpl-lse/pro/index-eng.asp

It may be worth checking into, as you may not have to bite the bullet after all.  Good luck.


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## daftandbarmy (12 Sep 2012)

Kitty88 said:
			
		

> Appreciate the opinions.  Think I'll just have to bite the bullet if they decide to fire me
> 
> Cheers



I've done that before... doesn't look great on the resume if you're looking for work in the future, especially if future employers want a wonderful reference from a previous employer, so I'd definately keep that as a last choice. 

No idea if the 'Honouraries' in your unit can help out, or other members who are employed elsewhere in the same business. Sometimes they 'know people who can talk to people' to smooth the way.


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## Kitty88 (12 Sep 2012)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I've done that before... doesn't look great on the resume if you're looking for work in the future, especially if future employers want a wonderful reference from a previous employer, so I'd definately keep that as a last choice.
> 
> No idea if the 'Honouraries' in your unit can help out, or other members who are employed elsewhere in the same business. Sometimes they 'know people who can talk to people' to smooth the way.



Hey thanks, thats a great idea.  I will try and do that this week!  Thanks very much everyone.


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Sep 2012)

bridges said:
			
		

> As 'a Sig Op' mentioned, the CFLC may be able to help.  There's some good introductory info & FAQ here, as well as a toll-free number:   http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/ees-pae/rr/rus-pau/rgees-greee-eng.asp
> 
> They also have summaries of each province's job protection legislation here: http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/jpl-lse/pro/index-eng.asp
> 
> It may be worth checking into, as you may not have to bite the bullet after all.  Good luck.



Last line in your link for Ontario Provisions:

Limitations: No provisions for military training.


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## bridges (12 Sep 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Last line in your link for Ontario Provisions:
> 
> Limitations: No provisions for military training.



Yes, and with font that loud, anyone in the province should be able to see it.   

I'm just sharing a link to the experts, not reading through every document.  If she wants to follow up on it & see what else they might suggest, their number is 1-800-567-9908.


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## Bluebulldog (12 Sep 2012)

The other side of the equation is that you are classed as part time, meaning you are not obligated to be available for all shifts your employer schedules. This is the particularly nasty bit that employers who rely on part time staff tend to overlook.

If you have an agreement with the employer stating that you are to be complimented a certain number of hours in a given pay period, then that's all you have to do. You are also entitled as a part timer to give your availablity schedule to your employer in advance, noting time periods when you will not be available, and the employer cannot make you work during those.

Having said that, is it going to be worth pursuing should your employer decide to simply not schedule you, lay you off, or fire you....probably not, but you would be in the right regardless.

If you happen to be employed by an organization with an HR dept, have an open conversation with them. Or put your case in writing to your immediate supervisor, and their manager, often lower level supervisors dont have any real authority other than what they think they can get away with.


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## Kitty88 (13 Sep 2012)

Thanks Bridges and Blue.  I will see if I can get a hold of an HR rep. this week.  Conveniently, everyone seems on vacation right now.   :facepalm:


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## JorgSlice (13 Sep 2012)

Even Alberta only allows for 20 calendar days per year allotted for training, doesn't really do good for a lengthy course like QL5. I guess it's up to your employer and/or union whether or not to give you the time for training.

Better than nothing though.


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## Dissident (13 Sep 2012)

My company pays for and organizes training days for us to get training which pales in comparisson to most of the military training I get. The CFLC shoud be able to make her see what you would get out of the training and how it benefits her and the company.


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## JorgSlice (13 Sep 2012)

NinerSix said:
			
		

> My company pays for and organizes training days for us to get training which pales in comparisson to most of the military training I get. The CFLC shoud be able to make her see what you would get out of the training and how it benefits her and the company.



How'd you ever manage to convince your employer to give you time off for training?

My previous employer would cringe at the thought of giving me even just 3 days off.... I can't even begin to imagine their reaction if I needed several weeks for training. Thankfully, I do not serve them any more.


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## Bluebulldog (13 Sep 2012)

JorgSlice said:
			
		

> How'd you ever manage to convince your employer to give you time off for training?
> 
> My previous employer would cringe at the thought of giving me even just 3 days off.... I can't even begin to imagine their reaction if I needed several weeks for training. Thankfully, I do not serve them any more.



Some employers and organizations actually value the training the CF provides, and will do what is right. Particularly government, where politicians who don't approve military leave policy may just suffer some dire consequences come election time. 

Given that ninersix is with the MPs, I'd venture a guess that they may indeed fall in that category outside the armoury.


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## Journeyman (13 Sep 2012)

Conversely, maybe the employer is happy to get some individuals out from under foot


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## Jarnhamar (13 Sep 2012)

Some reservists ruin it for their peers and follow on members when they burn bridges and lie to their employers about being required to attend weekend ex's and 2 week ex's.  Being told 'oh ya surprisr I HAVE to take a week off for the army next week  sorry!' makes employers think twice about hiring them.


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## bridges (13 Sep 2012)

:nod:  Yep, it's important to be upfront about the whole thing, for many reasons - and it sounds like the OP's approaching it that way.  Good.


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## mariomike (13 Sep 2012)

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> Some employers and organizations actually value the training the CF provides, and will do what is right.



City of Toronto employees can take Leave With Pay for two weeks every calendar year for military training.

"Employees are paid their regular pay provided they submit any compensation received for military service to the city treasurer, unless this compensation is paid for days they are not scheduled to work."

Compensation received for travelling expenses and meal allowance does not have to be returned to the city.

All benefits, seniority, vacation entitlement, and pension credit continue during leave.


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## bridges (13 Sep 2012)

mariomike said:
			
		

> All benefits, seniority, vacation entitlement, and pension credit continue during leave.



Great policy, & the quoted part in particular.  Kudos to the City of Toronto.


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## Kitty88 (14 Sep 2012)

Well, talked to the store owner and explained it all to him.  Looks like they won't be able to flex for my schedule so... boo-urns.  Thanks for all the help guys! 

Cheers


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## bridges (14 Sep 2012)

Sorry to hear that.  Are you leaving the job in order to do the training, or the other way around?  

If you're going with the training, I hope your next employer is able to be more flexible.  Good luck to you.


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## Kitty88 (15 Sep 2012)

No, no.  I've been working hard for 2 years to get into the forces... I'm not giving it up.  I will be continuing with my basic training in 2 weeks regardless if this job wants to flex   I'd like to make it a career!


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## TorScottMo (29 Jan 2013)

I am undergoing BMQ, three weeks in.  I recently got a job at RBC, during my interview I was upfront and I informed about the time conflict and that it might conflict with my training both at BMQ and with them, but I was offered the job anyways and I accepted it.  I assumed since I was offered it, that they could accommodate me.

Today, 28/Jan/13 I had my first day at RBC, and the impression I got was that they cannot and/or would not be able to work around my BMQ.  I do not want to miss any BMQ classes.  What are my options? has anyone worked with a large company and faced the same issues? Any advice would be appreciated it.  

Thanks in Advance!

 TorScottMo


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## mariomike (29 Jan 2013)

TorScottMo said:
			
		

> What are my options?



You can ask your Human Resources staff if your new employer has a Military Leave Policy.

Edit to add.
Some discussions such as this you may find helpful.
This one is fairly recent.

"Reservists + Work":  
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/107451.0


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## brihard (29 Jan 2013)

I've shot the question to a primary reservist I know who up until recently was working for RBC, and was given time off to deploy. He may have some insight specific enough to help you. When I hear back from him I'll let you know what I find out.


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## TorScottMo (29 Jan 2013)

mariomike said:
			
		

> You can ask your Human Resources staff if your new employer has a Military Leave Policy.



Thank you I will ask tomorrow


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## TorScottMo (29 Jan 2013)

Brihard said:
			
		

> I've shot the question to a primary reservist I know who up until recently was working for RBC, and was given time off to deploy. He may have some insight specific enough to help you. When I hear back from him I'll let you know what I find out.



Since I will not deploying any time soon, I do not think that that will be an issue for now, but I do plan on taking BMQ-L and DP1 in the summer I do not want to wait till next year.


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## brihard (29 Jan 2013)

TorScottMo said:
			
		

> Since I will not deploying any time soon, I do not think that that will be an issue for now, but I do plan on taking BMQ-L and DP1 in the summer I do not want to wait till next year.



Yes, understood. However from the RBC end the policies are likely either identical or similar enough to be of some informative value. Anyway, I'll let you know.


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## brihard (29 Jan 2013)

Just got a reply to my question on military leave policy: "They do. If he's brand new he might be out of luck. But tell him to search on 'Me & RBC > My Pay & Benefits' [on RBC intranet] and he should find the military leave policy. Unless he's mission essential to the bank they should accommodate him."

Hope this helps.


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## Scott (29 Jan 2013)

If Brihard is talking about the same guy I know then it's bang on advice. This member was pretty much encouraged by RBC. That's not to say it's going to apply in every situation, but from the surface it looks pretty damned good.


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## Journeyman (29 Jan 2013)

Scott said:
			
		

> This member was pretty much encouraged by RBC.


...and when he returned, RBC was no longer employing him (?)

I'm sure I read _somewhere_....





			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> Conversely, maybe the employer is happy to get some individuals out from under foot


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## TorScottMo (29 Jan 2013)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Just got a reply to my question on military leave policy: "They do. If he's brand new he might be out of luck. But tell him to search on 'Me & RBC > My Pay & Benefits' [on RBC intranet] and he should find the military leave policy. Unless he's mission essential to the bank they should accommodate him."
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thank You, I am brand new so I might be SOL, but I go in today and I will get more details


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## Smirnoff123 (29 Jan 2013)

Its definitely a skill balancing a commitment to the reserves with a full time career.

I will be starting a new career soon in a union and am unsure how I will be able to fulfill my commitment to the reserves. Much of the schooling will be after work and many will be on parade nights. I also assume it will be not be easy to get a month of in the summer months for reserve training, as an apprentice.


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## brihard (29 Jan 2013)

Scott said:
			
		

> If Brihard is talking about the same guy I know then it's bang on advice. This member was pretty much encouraged by RBC. That's not to say it's going to apply in every situation, but from the surface it looks pretty damned good.



Yup, same guy. I'm still in touch with him by other means.


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