# 81mm mortar



## stollhofen (17 Jan 2007)

Been out of the forces for 25yrs. and I was never a mortar man and I was wondering what and what is the purpose of the devise at the end of the tube of the 81mm mortar ?  Thanks


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## MJP (17 Jan 2007)

It is called the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) and isused to reduce the blast effects on the mortar crew


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## Mortar guy (17 Jan 2007)

Hey, leave this one to the experts!

Stollhofen, to answer your question: it is called the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) and is used to reduce the blast effects on the mortar crew

 ;D  ;D  ;D

MG


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## MJP (17 Jan 2007)

Well I though I was the expert, I have the course and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


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## Mortar guy (17 Jan 2007)

Yes, but is your name "Mortar guy"? Granted, the Holiday Inn Express stay does trump a good handle.

 ;D

MG


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## Michael OLeary (17 Jan 2007)

Gentlemen, get in line, let a professional handle this (before Hauptmann Scharlachrot shows up).  

Stollhofen, it's called the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) and was brought into service to reduce the blast over-pressures experienced by the mortar crews.


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## Journeyman (17 Jan 2007)

Although I'm _not_ a mortar guy, they tended to be part of my chalk/arctic tent group in the Airborne.

I believe you're referring to the device that reduced the blast over-pressures experienced by the mortar crews. They called it a BAD, or Blast Attenuation Device. You should wait for an expert to confirm though; it's been a while since I hung out with Cbt Sp Cdo.    


Mind you, there's seldom a long wait for an indirect fire "expert"  :
 ;D


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## scotty884 (17 Jan 2007)

here's a link that can help you,   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M252_81mm_mortor,   I'm an ex mortor guy from C bty 1RCHA,  i hated them things.  Lots of hang ups, and gets in the way.  But it was good at lowing the noise put on us.  But for the most part it was pain to have, and the metal clips had a tendancy of gettin lost or broken.


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## Mortar guy (17 Jan 2007)

So what you're saying, Crafty, is that its called the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) and was brought into service to reduce the blast over-pressures experienced by the mortar crews?



MG

PS - Only the Hauptmann can rescue this thread!


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## scotty884 (17 Jan 2007)

lol basically, just didnt want to repeat the statements made by all of you, so I can the guy a link.


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## Journeyman (17 Jan 2007)

Mortar guy said:
			
		

> So what you're saying, Crafty, is that its called the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) and was brought into service to reduce the blast over-pressures experienced by the mortar crews?


Like a _mere_ gunner would know anything about this fine (stolen from the) infantry weapon. 

I'm sure there'll be an infantry indirect fire expert along soon to explain the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) and any possible reduction in the blast over-pressures experienced by the mortar crews.
 ;D


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## vonGarvin (18 Jan 2007)

I would have been here sooner, but I was rather busy, tying myself to a cannon here at Fort Frotenac, aka "PFC", protesting the loss of mortars to the artillery.

So, that "device" at the end of the mortar is one of two things:
(a) a baseplate (didn't say which end) 

or 

(b) Blast Attenuation Device (BAD), and its purpose is to attenuate the blast when fired ;D

As to how it affects the transitional stage of ballistics (from internal to external), well, that will take page upon page of useless drivel.


Thread Rescued?  

;D


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## brihard (18 Jan 2007)

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> Thread Rescued?
> 
> ;D



It's dead, Jim.


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## vonGarvin (18 Jan 2007)

No, not dead......


Oh, well, ok


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## AmmoTech90 (18 Jan 2007)

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> As to how it affects the transitional stage of ballistics (from internal to external), well, that will take page upon page of useless drivel.



That would the intermediate stage of ballistics, whichs covers the transition from internal to external ballistics.

D


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## little jim (18 Jan 2007)

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> So, that "device" at the end of the mortar is one of two things:
> (a) a baseplate (didn't say which end)
> 
> or
> ...



I would hazard a guess that you are mistaken in your deductions

Actually the Blast Attenuation Device (BAD) is one of the five main parts of the Barrel ML 81mm L16A1/A2.  According to some (inf) it is a device designed to provide a reduction of blast and overpressure.  Others (arty) would expand on this in their teachings and ramble on with trivial points such as “it also helps direct the muzzle blast up and away” or “it is required during firing because the firing tables are based on this configuration.”

As the original poster indicated he was questioning the “devise at the end of the tube” we should be able to infer that the tube he refers to is in fact one of the other main points of the aforementioned Barrel ML 81mm L16A1/A2 – that being the part commonly referred to as the Barrel.  So if the original poster is enquiring about the “devise at the end of the tube” one would also have to explain that at the base of the tube on finds what is commonly referred to as the Breech Plug.

I have no life....


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## George Wallace (18 Jan 2007)

Got to love it when the Mortar Guys try to outdo each other in the knowledge of the Names and Functions of the various parts of the Mortars.  Next, we will get into Charges, Time of Flight, RPM, .................... ;D


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## Michael OLeary (18 Jan 2007)

little jim said:
			
		

> Others (arty) would expand on this in their teachings and ramble on with trivial points such as “it also helps direct the muzzle blast up and away” or “it is required during firing because the firing tables are based on this configuration.”



_“it also helps direct the muzzle blast up and away”_ - Does this mean you needed a simpler way to say "protects the crew from the blast over-pressures?  


_“it is required during firing because the firing tables are based on this configuration.”_ - Now I'm curious where this came from, there was no reissue of firing tables when the BAD came into use (that I am aware of).  Sounds like someone was tying to "over-technify" a lesson plan after taking it from the PBI.


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## The Rifleman (18 Jan 2007)

not sure if it works but try this link for 81mm mortars in action


http://www.operations.mod.uk/video/OpGlacier.wmv


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## little jim (18 Jan 2007)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Now I'm curious where this came from, there was no reissue of firing tables when the BAD came into use (that I am aware of).  Sounds like someone was tying to "over-technify" a lesson plan after taking it from the PBI.



Bingo - both of the tidbits I gave in quotations came from the artillery's 81mm Mortar Conversion course PO 401.01 - courtesty of the Arty Sch - bless their hearts.

Although I seem to recall that an edition of the TFT for the C70A1 came out that had the phrase "with Blast Attenuation Device" on the front cover.

Speaking of tidbits that sounds like timbits.....ah mortars


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## vonGarvin (18 Jan 2007)

INTERMEDIATE....sorry, we're doing transitional phases at AOC, and it's like I'm Jack Nicholson in the Shining, repeating the same phrase over and over again!


Thanks


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## Old Sweat (18 Jan 2007)

I love it when infantrymen try to talk technical. The question was obviously about the round ball shaped thingy that fits into the base plate.


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## vonGarvin (18 Jan 2007)

TRUE STORY:
Last computer assisted exercise (CAX) here on AOC, I was the FSCC: the guns.  The puckster is a former gunner.  Naturally, I received a bit of ribbing when my final fire mission was on an enemy mortar baseplate: some 10 rounds/gun by the REGIMENT (pseudo regiment: three batteries: one DS and two reinforcing) 

Today, we go in and I introduce the new student gunner to this guy.  I say "I'm no longer guns", to which the old guy says "Thank god for that"  (with a wink, of course).  Then he mentioned something about "wandering in the field, seeing some tubes.  He thought they were urinals, so he pissed in them"

That's ok, I reminded him that for engineers, UBIQUE means "EVERYWHERE", where for the guns it means "ALL OVER THE PLACE" 

;D


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## Petard (20 Jan 2007)

What's going on here? Hauptman I thought you were called in to clean up the thread (ala Pulp Fiction's Mr Wolf)? ;D


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## Michael OLeary (20 Jan 2007)

I think Hauptman sees himself more as Vincent Vega.


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## GUNS (20 Jan 2007)

Back in the day when the Dead Sea was not sick and OldSweat was a young pup in Shilo. We always referred to the end of the barrel/tube as the " working end " to avoid confusion


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## Michael OLeary (20 Jan 2007)

GUNS said:
			
		

> Back in the day when the Dead Sea was not sick and OldSweat was a young pup in Shilo. We always referred to the end of the barrel/tube as the " working end " to avoid confusion



Woundn't that be counter-intuitive?  In a mortar, it's the rebound socket and breech plug that 'work' against the recoil forces generated by the expanding gasses of burning increments, and in a gun it's the breech, recoil mechanism and trails that do the work.  The muzzle just happens to be there, providing some final guidance but without exerting itself. 

Now, perhaps in the days you are referring to, it was the end of the barrel where _you_ worked, with sponge and rammer.   ;D


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## geo (20 Jan 2007)

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> TRUE STORY:
> 
> That's ok, I reminded him that for engineers, UBIQUE means "EVERYWHERE", where for the guns it means "ALL OVER THE PLACE"
> ;D



Thank you!

CHIMO!


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## GUNS (21 Jan 2007)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Wouldn't that be counter-intuitive?  In a mortar, it's the rebound socket and breech plug that 'work' against the recoil forces generated by the expanding gasses of burning increments, and in a gun it's the breech, recoil mechanism and trails that do the work.  The muzzle just happens to be there, providing some final guidance but without exerting itself.
> 
> Now, perhaps in the days you are referring to, it was the end of the barrel where _you_ worked, with sponge and rammer.   ;D



You are not far off on the sponge and rammer.

We actually used a role of toilet paper which was rammed through from the breech end(m109) and a gunner was waiting on the " working end " (where projectile exited) to remove toilet paper from muzzle brake and push rammed back through barrel.


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