# Tac Vest Issue (when is it comming to a QM near you?)



## chrisf (27 Sep 2004)

Greetings... anyone from LFAA who's recently been issue the tac vest care to tell me whether they got the small pack with it or not?


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## BKells (28 Sep 2004)

I'm LFCA reserve (33 BG) and I just got my tac vest last night and no small pack. Small pack should be coming in a few years they said, since the first ones produced came out 6 weeks ago and were sent immediately to Kabul.


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## MikeM (28 Sep 2004)

Anybody receive theirs yet? 

Haven't got them at our unit yet, but according to our slate, we should be getting them soon, I know a friend of mine in the engineers has his, was just wondering if anyone else in 32 CBG has theirs yet.

And yes I know not everything runs as scheduled  ;D


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## Arctic Acorn (28 Sep 2004)

Okay, has anyone in LFAA know when the tac vest is going to be issued? I've heard from sources that the QM has a quantity in stock, but still no word when they're to be issued. 

Is anyone better informed?


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## dr.no (28 Sep 2004)

What is a tac vest? Very sorry if this is a dumb question, however I am very curious.


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## D-n-A (28 Sep 2004)

Tactical Vest, its replacing the '82 pattern webbing as our LBE.



http://www.armee.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/Images/2_0/77.jpg

http://www.army.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/271_e.asp


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## Tpr.Orange (28 Sep 2004)

Nope,

Haven't gotten mine yet. 
But then again I also heard they will only issue out with rifles etc... Such a mix up! but nothing were not used to


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## MikeM (28 Sep 2004)

Well I haven't heard about the issuing with rifles only, some guys I know have theirs and take them home, didn't say anything about issue with rifles since they take them home. 

Always a conflicting story for everything eh?;D


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## Tpr.Orange (28 Sep 2004)

Yup!


basically from what i was told is that the vest will be issued with rifles and after exersize you return it as serialized kit... The more i heard of it the stupider it sounded.


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## armyguy916 (28 Sep 2004)

Come on boys, the TV is the replacement for the old style web gear, for a couple of reasons, the first being the web gear isn't in CADPAT, the second is, it isn't what the army wants anymore.   They want the TV.   
If they were to only issue the TV to riflemen, and the people using the MG's would have to have the web gear, where is the uniformity that the army always goes on about.
You guys should know a bit better than to believe that crap.   Just use a bit of common sense.   
Especially since someone already posted a website that gives the info on the TV.   Just read it and it will all make sense

By the way, it is not serialized kit.   It is issued on a temp issue card.   They don't do it that way in the Reg force, and they aren't doing it in the reserves.   I have had mine for ages now, I passed in my webgear and got my TV.   It goes home with me after an ex or when I am done training on a Thrusday night.


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## Tpr.Orange (28 Sep 2004)

armyguy916 said:
			
		

> Come on boys, the TV is the replacement for the old style web gear, for a couple of reasons, the first being the web gear isn't in CADPAT, the second is, it isn't what the army wants anymore.   They want the TV.
> If they were to only issue the TV to riflemen, and the people using the MG's would have to have the web gear, where is the uniformity that the army always goes on about.
> You guys should know a bit better than to believe that crap.   Just use a bit of common sense.
> Especially since someone already posted a website that gives the info on the TV.   Just read it and it will all make sense
> ...




Im not disagreeing with you at all infact im agreeing with you. I work sometimes at ASU toronto so i know how the system works but the higher ups at first were planning on using this style of system with all reserve units.


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## armyguy916 (28 Sep 2004)

Ya I have heard it all to.  That was why I never really cared until I knew I was getting one.  I had issued to me as well when I was at the Infantry School.  
But ya know what really pisses me off, is that CIC are getting everything CADPAT now, when half our real army still doesn't have the stuff it needs.  And I saw a damn CIC officer going around the other day with a TacVest on.  What the hell do they need them for.  They don't even use real weapons.


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## MikeM (29 Sep 2004)

The CIC officer's I have talked to say they aren't getting tac vests... just the uniforms. Can anyone shed some light on this?


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## Redeye (29 Sep 2004)

What the hell would a CIC officer need a tac vest for?

Since they cost quite a bit of money, I don't think they'll bother issuing them to the CIC.


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## D-n-A (29 Sep 2004)

Maybe the CIC officer bought his, they come up for sale on ebay and some surplus stores.


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## Bean (29 Sep 2004)

The CIC are not supposed to be issued the TV.  The only kit that we are supposed to be issued is the the filed clothing (shirt/pants) with a possible future issue of the ICE jacket for wear in inclement weather.  If a CIC officer has been issued a TV I'd be pretty surprised, so it is likely it was purchased or issued during other duty or under false pretenses.  I know when I was working at NDHQ I had most of the kit issued in CADPAT at the time just because of where I was working.  the 15 days in the field really didn't warrant it, but the CO required all of us to be uniform and so we were issued the gear.  Still have it on my docs so it is possible this is a similar situation.  Still not required at all by the CIC as a training tool so shouldn't be issued to us.


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## armyguy916 (29 Sep 2004)

I asked the guy if it was issue.  And it was, he still had the little book that came with it and he took it off and showed me the NSN, it matched mine on my TV.  I was like WTF do you guys need them for?  He was like, "Well we are part of the reserves, so we are entitled to everything you guys get"


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## CF_MacAulay (29 Sep 2004)

In 36 LFAA, i heard our wo talking about some guys getting tac vests, the only problem with them is that they dont carry your rain gear and shit...


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## Pte_Martin (29 Sep 2004)

I'm in 31 we have our TV's they are great, we take them home after ever ex and training.


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## Korus (29 Sep 2004)

41 Bde here, got sized for them last week, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Redeye (30 Sep 2004)

33 Brigade is supposed to be in them by the end of October, evidently our stores type is supposed to arrange distribution in the next week or two.


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Oct 2004)

34th BG here.   I had my Tac Vest since June.


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## Fraser.g (2 Oct 2004)

I am confident that if a member showed up with a TV there would be a query as to where they got if from. As it is new kit I do not believe that they are legally for sale yet. If they are then I am more saddened that the government is selling them CIVI before the forces are kitted.

Careful, possession of stolen articles is against the law.


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## Scott (2 Oct 2004)

And if said items were "aquired"? Kind of like my Ranger Blanket was on Arcon '97.................................shhhhhh ;D


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## Fraser.g (2 Oct 2004)

A ranger blanket or other common kit would hardly raise a query, A TV in  brigade or unit that has not been issued would. Nuff Said.

I do not think that a single member is absolutely Innocent of "re-allocating of kit within the system with out the appropriate paperwork"


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## Scott (2 Oct 2004)

RN PRN said:
			
		

> I do not think that a single member is absolutely Innocent of "re-allocating of kit within the system with out the appropriate paperwork"



That was my point.


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## Da_man (2 Oct 2004)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> 34th BG here.     I had my Tac Vest since June.




same here. Everyone in 34 has it


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## gun plumber (2 Oct 2004)

I have a Question and If one of you educated soul's could awnser it for me I would be very appriciative:
I am posted to Camp Wainwright as a Weapons Tech(regular)and am wondering when   I will   get one.I know I will get one,but after supporting Active Edge and seeing every reservist with them,I am losing hope as to "soon".I understand how kit is issued to the reserves first(my old bde-36 recieved our ICES kit well before reg force units in gagtown)and have tried to understand the allocation tables on the Clothe the soldier site(rainbow colored bars don't mean a thing to me)but have yet to hear about the tacvest coming "soon".Can anyone help?


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## Pencil Tech (3 Oct 2004)

We were just fitted for them in 41 Brigade. Our RQMS said we will have them in a couple of weeks.


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## Tpr.Orange (4 Oct 2004)

Our Qm just got them last week

32 brigade...

I would expect the rest of the reg force guys should be getting them issued with in the next quarter.


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## Sh0rtbUs (5 Oct 2004)

All the Rangers who dont have em yet, are headed down to ASU Toronto and getting ours tomorrow night (05/10/04). It feels like Christmas  ;D


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## Tpr.Orange (6 Oct 2004)

Well i just picked up my tac vest today.

so far so good, althought the fact that it only comes in to sizes threw me off a bit. No worries its completly adjustable in every which way.


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## foerestedwarrior (6 Oct 2004)

Well Half my reg. got theirs last thursday(Sep30) and my half will be getting them tommrow, so all is happy happy


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## MikeM (7 Oct 2004)

Just got mine tonight along with the rest of my unit, nice piece of kit.


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## Tpr.Orange (7 Oct 2004)

good stuff make sure you get it all set up before you take it to the field and you know how it all works. read the book.


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## foerestedwarrior (7 Oct 2004)

So iv been reading a bunch of post's that are complaining about the TV's lack of ruggability. I dont understand, cus we have a couple of people who have had one for a while, tours, ex regs. and they are all in perfect working order.


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## ggranatstein (7 Oct 2004)

I'm a Log O in Comms unit in Quebec. 34 Bde has been issued their TVs but the Comm Groups have yet to get them. According to our G4   , the allocation is set and we are ready to receive them, but there have been bureaucratic issues in distributing them at the unit level.

As for its quality.. It is a great piece of kit. One that acutally works and works well. There are only a few pieces like that in the system. The winter fleece being my favorite. Also, i've tried out the new CADPAT goretex raingear and it too is very good.

If anyone has questions about when they might be receiving the TV or any other kit, I've got some good info and find out more easily. Just let me know!


SERVITIUM NULLI SECONDUS


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## gun plumber (7 Oct 2004)

Habitant,see my above post and any info would you can find out would help
Thanks


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## Morpheus32 (7 Oct 2004)

Don't get lost in "Shiny Kit" syndrome.  Just because it is new, does not mean it is an improvement...it is just new.  The TV has alot of shortcomings, things that were brought up during trials and were not addressed before issuing.  The load cartage is a main issue with the vest.  It has the potential to be good but considering the design and cost we could have done better.  As noted in other posts there are a number of UCRs on the vest from folks on operations.  Heck I drafted one myself....

Jeff


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## ggranatstein (7 Oct 2004)

Gun plumber,

I believe you are mistaken. The TV was issued to all regs before the res. If you are being attached to another unit temporarily, you may have to sign it from the QM directly. They may not just give it to you. Make a friend in the QM and be proactive.

Friends in the QM are the best kind you can make.


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## Morpheus32 (7 Oct 2004)

Actually the TV is being issued by Area not Reg then reserve.  Depending on your Area's plan, it may dictate the priority for issue of the TV.

Jeff


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## Gayson (7 Oct 2004)

Got mine.  I wouild say it is an ok peice of kit, but could use improvements.

Each mag pouch should hold 2 mags, not 1.
A removable butt-pack should be available


I am thinking to make up for lost storage space I may just remove my canteen holder and use 2 c9 pouches.  Ill just drink from my camelbak.


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## leopard11 (8 Oct 2004)

j, gayson

the "Buttpack" will come, in due time, thats part of the small pack system, it encorparates small pouches that can also   attach to the TV and the New ruck that is set to come out as well somewhere in the future.

as for the magpouches, maybe they should be able to hold 2 mags, but then again what is the battle load fo a C7 rifleman? according to the PAM its 5 X   30 rdmags and a 100 round bandolier. 1 mag on the weapon, 4 in the pouches,. if the time comes that u do need to hold extra mags, u have 13 pockets on youre combat uniform alone, let alone all the pouches on ure tacvest. could they have made it to hold two mags each? yes, but then uve got mags that flop around when u only have 1 mag in each, just my two cents worth ,

as for my own opinion on it, so far i like it, alot better then webbing (mind you i didnt have webbing for very long 8 months including SQ and BIQ) i find the webbing was ok, apart from the pouches that would occasionally fall off, but nothing that couldnt be fixed with a few zapstraps, i found webbing worked best when you used it with  a flak vest, stayed where u wanted it on ure back rather then flopping somewhat around, i havent had that problem with the tacvest, and i found that section attacks with the TV were ALOT easier, no more buttpack at ure neck in the prone, also no pouches falling off.  has alot more pockets then the webbing, so you can sort your gear alot better.  I attached my Peacekeeper hydration pack to the back of my TV(with homemade fastex daisystraps) on Ex's to hold my water(carry my canteen anyways tho, who knows when the hose will break off or sumthing malfunctions on youre hydration pack )you can also attach the Peacekeeper Large pack to the back of the Tacvest if you need more load carriage. once again just my 3 cents,

Marc


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## foerestedwarrior (8 Oct 2004)

The entire Grey and Simcoe FOresters just got issued their TV's last night, pretty shiny.....i dunno when i can put it through its paces, seems all my unit exercises are on teh same weekend as the PLQ.....dam courses


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## nawk (16 Oct 2004)

I'm in 32 brigade and our unit got our tac vests yesterday.  They're temporary issue.  I agree with the comment that the mag pouches should hold 2 mags each.


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## ImanIdiot (17 Oct 2004)

I'm in 39 Brigade so we should be seeing ours in about 2012. Cant wait!


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## Morpheus32 (17 Oct 2004)

m_a_r_c said:
			
		

> j, gayson
> 
> the "Buttpack" will come, in due time, thats part of the small pack system, it encorparates small pouches that can also   attach to the TV and the New ruck that is set to come out as well somewhere in the future.
> 
> as for the magpouches, maybe they should be able to hold 2 mags, but then again what is the battle load fo a C7 rifleman? according to the PAM its 5 X   30 rdmags and a 100 round bandolier. 1 mag on the weapon, 4 in the pouches,. if the time comes that u do need to hold extra mags, u have 13 pockets on youre combat uniform alone, let alone all the pouches on ure tacvest. could they have made it to hold two mags each? yes, but then uve got mags that flop around when u only have 1 mag in each, just my two cents worth ,



MARC,

Think about what you are saying here.  What else do you need to carry in battle?  Frag grenades, smoke grenades, water, rations, gloves, stobe, First Aid kit?  What about field dressings? Have you ever loaded up everything, throw on body armour and get yourself sorted out?  John Wayne'ng grenades is dangerous and having stuff loose and hanging off you makes you noisy and uncomfortable.  Where do you dump your mags after reloading?  The patrol pack might be able to help but where is it?  Have you ever tried doing extensive mag changes with the vest?  Ergonomically they are too high and too tight.  Wait until you get the bayonet in the lip because your vest was a little loose when you dropped down.

Guess what, with just ammo and water you have filled just about every pouch on the vest and you loose all the pockets less the ones on the legs because of the body armour.  You can't carry anything bulky in your pockets under body armour and you can't get to them easily if you did.  It is nice to go light and keep stuff in your vehicle for part of the exercise but it doesn't work on the side of a mountain in Afghanistan.  Just about everyone was loaded up because there was no vehicle to go to and we were expecting contact.  You couldn't carry enough mags.  We were issued 10 mags from the get go.  In Somalia we were issued 13 mags.  Mags don't do much for you on your back where you can't get at them.  When rucks were dumped at an RV, you moved on and some people did not see them for 24 hours.  

Have a look at what people are carrying in Iraq and Afghanistan in terms of gear.  Our kit needs to be flexible and modular.  Each task will have a different requirement.  What about the M203 Grenadiers, C6 and C9 gunners?  The vest is a complete waste of time for them.  So right off the bat, roughly 30-40 % of an infantry rifle company have difficulty using the vest even if you go with a lighter magazine load.  Does that make sense?

I'll admit that I am a lightfighter and was always comfortable living out of my webbing for 24 hours.  Part of it is my background and training but the other side is experiences on operations.  We have become rather clinical when it comes to fighting, clean and neat with everything working out nicely.  My experience says the opposite, each time you go out the door you have to assume everything is going to go for a S%@T.  If you are not prepared to sort yourself out, there is no QM truck going to drive out to help you out.  Granted the patrol pack will assist, but I like first principles.  If it is not strapped to you and tied on, you will lose it or it won't be there when you need it.  The patrol pack should carry items to resupply your second line of gear which is on your vest/webbing not carry gear you need to get to regularly.

Now we start entering the discussion of light vs mech and general combat vs peace support/peacekeeping.  Wouldn't it make more sense to have a modular system which gave us the flexiblity to adapt the gear to the needs of each individual and the realities of the mission?  I don't believe the fact that the patrol pack will give us this flexibilty.  There is a difference between carrying it and being able to use it.  Having something stuffed in the bottom of the patrol pack doesn't me it is ready for use.

The vest is nice for certain applications and for certain people.  My arguement here is we have lost flexiblity in the vest, something we should have gotten in the first place.  For Bosnia type stuff it might be just fine or if you are in Haiti.  As I said in my previous post.  Don't get lost in "Shiny Kit Syndrome".  It is new but not necessarily an improvement.  It is just new.  
Jeff


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## leopard11 (17 Oct 2004)

Jeff, 
Thanks for the informative reply,   like i said that was my opinion based on my limited experiance so far, havent been on tour, and a basic rifleman battleload(plus a bit more ie: C6 Belt)is all ive ever been given(plus water, field dressing...) and for that, the tac vest suited me fine for that, hopefully if i get a chance to get on tour somewhere in the future i will be able to learn from the same experiances you have,until then i can only comment on what i have used it for, and learn form those who have more experiance
thanks , 

Marc


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## Posthumane (19 Oct 2004)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the TV have daisy chains running all the way down the back? Doesn't this mean then, that one could easily attach an aftermarket buttpack to the vest quite easily? It's not hard to make a pack that attaches nicely to daisy chains. Just a thought from a guy who doesn't have the TV yet... 41bde, might have to wait a while.


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## foerestedwarrior (19 Oct 2004)

even with a after market butpack on the TV, i have loaded up my TV with a full canteen and all my normal crap, minus ammo, and it felt slightly uncomfortable on the sholders, i think with the added weight of a battle load and a butpack would be killer on the sholders.


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## Tpr.Orange (19 Oct 2004)

Posthumane said:
			
		

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the TV have daisy chains running all the way down the back? Doesn't this mean then, that one could easily attach an aftermarket buttpack to the vest quite easily? It's not hard to make a pack that attaches nicely to daisy chains. Just a thought from a guy who doesn't have the TV yet... 41bde, might have to wait a while.



You are correct the TV has daisy chains running down the back. During the Ex last weekend i actually attached a personal c9 pouch to the bag to hold my rain gear since all the other  pouches were being used for other important kit.


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## Matt_Fisher (19 Oct 2004)

m_a_r_c said:
			
		

> j, gayson
> 
> the "Buttpack" will come, in due time, thats part of the small pack system, it encorparates small pouches that can also   attach to the TV and the New ruck that is set to come out as well somewhere in the future.
> 
> ...



Marc, thanks for contributing, but maybe you might want to stand back and listen to what some of the board members with some real-world experience have to say about combat load-carriage before you start beaking off with less than a year in about how a you manage your combat load.  

Morpheus32 summed things up pretty well.


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## Britney Spears (19 Oct 2004)

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the feed ramp(for lack of a better word) on the C-9 pouches? Turns every C-9 gunner into an instant Jesse Ventura. By far the best feature of the vest in my opinion.


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## Matt_Fisher (19 Oct 2004)

Britney, have you loaded 200 round drums into the C-9 pouches and then fed the belt into the weapon directly from the pouches on the vest?

I'd be afraid that every time I ran or went to ground, more and more ammo would feed out of the drum due to the length of the belt reaching from my hip into the weapon and pretty soon I'd have the entire 200 round belt hanging from the feed tray.

Any feedback as to whether this happens or not?


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## Britney Spears (19 Oct 2004)

Matt, assuming you are already familiar with the lip on the pouches:

In all honesty, I have not tried it myself with live ammo, never even seriously thought about it. I always thought it was some kind of half joke circulated by the designers. Perhaps KevB can test it out for us at the next ROE range?

What you say makes a lot of sense though, the only situation that I can think of where it might be useful would be perhaps on the hatch of a vehicle with no pintel to mount the weapon on. That way, the gunner can keep the ammunition secure in his vest while making the gun easier to manuever. Could be useful for static defence sitations too, in a trench, no more getting the box snagged in dirt or whatnot while trying to traverse the gun. Just as long as you don't have to move anywhere.


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## Gayson (19 Oct 2004)

I just got back from my first weekend in the field with the TV.  In that weekend I noticed a few things that I wish were different about the vest.

The velcro pocket on the inside should be a zipper because zippers are stronge rand quieter, also there should be a second one on the left side.

The Vest was actually a lot more comfortable for me than the webbing has ever been.  I wore it with the TCCCS manpack on a foot patrol for roughly 20 hours with a couple of breaks and the only discomfort I felt was the weight on my shoulder after a few hours from the radio itself.

I managed to pack in it my rain coat, extra socks, cam, bug juice, foor powder, FMP, rations, KFS, water, golves, floppy hat and electrical tape.  This being the same load I have always had in my Webbing (except my camera shit which I always kept in the c9 pouch, I'm a photography nut as some may have noticed in my helicoptor pics)

It was cold and wet that weekend, i was uncomfortable but the Tac Vest actually held out well for me, though It doesn;t have the capacity I wish it had I do understand that the actual load bearing system is not complete with the Tac Vest alone.  I'n the meantime I think I'll just have to little more creative and conservative with my kit layout than in the past.


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## westie47 (20 Oct 2004)

Hey , I'm new to this site. I'm wondering if anyone out there knows when the LFWA (BC) Regiments are getting Tacvests?


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