# Military sites in Europe to Visit?



## GregC (5 Dec 2003)

Hey everyone, I am going to be leaving to vist Europe for about 1.5 months, and one of my main reasons for going was to visit significant Canadian battle sites. I‘m joining the army when I return (Regular Army Infantry) and I‘ve always wanted to see these places firsthand. My list, currently, is as follows:

Vimy Ridge, Juno Beach, The Somme, Dieppe, Ortona,Ypres, Arnhem and the other bridges of Operation Market Garden, and the Scheldt Estuary

Can anyone recommend anywhere else to visit? I am trying to stick mostly to Canadian involved battles, but obviously I‘ve already made exceptions to that in my list. 

Any tips in general for my travels in Europe? And one last question, since I hope to join the PPCLI, I thought it would be appropriate to visit the site where the first contingent was almost wiped out, but I can‘t recall the location. I think it was sanctuary woods, but I could be wrong. thanks again for any help!


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## GregC (5 Dec 2003)

Thanks, I‘ll definately note that one down as well! Do you know much about how I would find out if there are any battlefield tours in the area? Because even though I know alot about the Canadian sites I can always learn more (and I‘m sure they could show me alot of things I could never find on my own) and for some of the other battles I know only the general outline.

I figured I would just try and find a tourist office in these cities. I can‘t wait to see the Arnhem Bridge, I think it will be incredible. I‘m most looking forward to my visit to Vimy, I hear the tunnels there are still intact....


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## Danjanou (5 Dec 2003)

Greg, you‘ve got some of the major ones already.

Depending on time and money, you might want to also check out Italy and Scily, Anzio (1st SSF), Rome, Monte La Difensa. There‘s also the area of the Rhine crossing.Other sites could include the Royal Nfld Regiments battles as part of the British Army sucha s Cambrai, and if you‘re up to a trip to Turkey there‘s Gallipoli.

As for travel tips. There are some companies that 
do battlefield tours, usually coach (trips) covering a certain area. I‘ve seen a few on the net, usually British ones so a google search should turn something up. General back packing guides such as Lonely Planet and Rough Guide ( and their web sites) might be of some use too.

As to the first PPCLI battle, I think it was Frezenberg, but I‘m not sure. A check of their regimental web site should clarify it and also help plan your trip.

Hope this helps.


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## GregC (5 Dec 2003)

Danjanou, thank you very much for your post, as in all your posts the information was very useful, thanks for taking the time

ps- I do believe it was Frezenberg, thanks fro the refresher, and I will definately check those sites!

Major-are these museums in and around the bridge? I am gonna have to start researching where these museums are, and have to plan in a visit to the BMW and ferrari plants since I‘m in the area    Did you see Nijmegan bridge as well? Curious as to whether it is worth it to visit it as well. thanks for the help

oh yeah, and I will have my flag    I‘m hoping to find some Americans and Canadians to travel with while I‘m in Europe, as I will be travelling alone mostly


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## Redeye (5 Dec 2003)

Sanctuary Wood is where the Patricias were decimated, there are a lot of graveyards around as well as small museums.


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## elscotto937 (6 Dec 2003)

So that‘s why you know so much about Canada, your a first generation American


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## xFusilier (6 Dec 2003)

I would reccomend that you visist Beaumont-Hamel, which is were the Royal Newfoundland Regiment was decimated on the first day of the Somme.  I would also recommend going Verdun.  Verdun is the only WWI battlefield that I have been to that truly illustrates what a slaughter the Western Front really was.

If you are going to Vimy, and want to see the Grange tunnel, which I believe is the only one open you have to go when tour guides are working May-Oct I believe but you can check with Vetrans Affairs.

If you‘re going to Arhnem you might as well go to Waterloo which IIRC is just down the road.

Lastly I would reccomend you pick up a book called "Before Endevours Fade" which is a guide to all battlefields one the Western Front for all nations.  I can‘t find my copy otherwise I‘d give you the ISBN.


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## JSA (6 Dec 2003)

You should check out Passchendaele, about 10 miles east of Ypres.  I don‘t know if there is much there, however the Canadian Corps performed very well there (even though the battle is considered to be a failure).  There is a very good museum in Arnhiem which has connections to other sites of Operation Market Garden (you can find it on the net).  Frezenburg was the first major battle of the Patricia‘s and is considered the ‘Death of the originals‘ as (like other Regiments in that conflict) less than 100 men ‘walked‘ out at the end.  Have a good trip and welcome to the family.  js


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## GregC (6 Dec 2003)

Passchendaele! I knew I was forgetting one, though I still don‘t know why our part was deemed a failure..... thanks JSA   

Xfusilier, I was thinking about Verdun as well, by your comments do you mean the battlefield is in decent condition? Or when I go to these places are they just going to be farms with small inundations where trenches once ran?

Once again, thanks alot for all the replies (keep them coming    ), they are all of tremendous help to me, and I‘m noting them all down as we speak!


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## JSA (6 Dec 2003)

Our part was (if I remember correctly) the only real success.  Overall the battle was considered a failure.  Where, depending on what you read, was when the Prime Minister of GB Lloyd George started thinking about replacing Haig.  The Canadian Corps was sucessful there and every battle until the end.  However, ours was basicly a National Army and therefore filled with the ‘esprit de corps‘ that goes with it.  an interesting piece of ground to look at, not much there, not much cover either.  js


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## xFusilier (7 Dec 2003)

At the end of the WWI the area around Verdun was completely useless as the shelling had changed the soil composition such that it was impossible to grow any thing.  As a result the French just treed it.  Most of the forts are open for tours and most of the key points of the battle such as the Trench of Bayonets and the Thirst Trench have monuments that you can go see.  But it is the French military cemetary that must be seen or as the French call it the "National Necropolis"  there are 175,000 French graves in this one cemetary.  Further to that there is a 3 story ossuary that contains all the remains that could not be identified.  

Most of the WWI battlefields in France have be rehabilitated with the rare exception of battlefield memorials such as Vimy, Beaumont-Hamel and Verdun basically now only consist of the cemetarys and memorials associated with the battles fought there.  Because of the UXO risk in the battlefield parks you pretty much have to walk on the paths and you cant do very much wandering around.


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## brin11 (7 Dec 2003)

GregC,

According to the PPCLI "New Soldier‘s Manual", Frezenburg was the first MAJOR battle.  It doesn‘t list names of battles from before.  They landed in France on December 21, 1914 and spent Christmas in Blaringham.  Frezenburg occurred on May 8, 1915.  80% of the unit was killed or wounded.  The grave of the originals is at Belvedere Ridge (Sanctuary Wood).

The battle that always amazed me was Hitler Line, May 23, 1944.  
Perhaps you could check that site out as well; defensive line just before Rome. The is the battle where A company disappeared completely (all casualties) and, if memory serves correctly, they got hung up on wire there which is why they were all killed.


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## stukirkpatrick (7 Dec 2003)

> I think you should check out the Hoch Wald, close to the Dutch German Border and the Rhine River.


I just read my unit‘s history book (the former Lake Sup Regiment [motor]) and Hochwald was an absolute meatgrinder for the Canadians, especially the armoured units that the LSR was providing infantry for, which lost many tanks.

If you are in the area, definitely check it out.


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## GregC (7 Dec 2003)

Brin11- Since I‘m heading down to Ortona I really should check out the Hitler line as well, and while there Anzio isn‘t far away......then again they are both on the west coast and Ortona is on the opposite side. 
Man, I have alot of places to see! 

Thanks again Xfusilier, Verdun is now on my list, I haven‘t read too much about Verdun, just in passing references in books on the Somme where they said that The Somme offensive was created to try and relieve the pressure on the French fortress of Verdun in the North.

Thanks alot for the tips everyone, I can‘t wait to get over there, I‘ll make sure to get pictures of the areas and post them if anyone is interested.


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## GregC (7 Dec 2003)

One last thing guys: I was downtown today looking for some kind of sizeable backpack, and they seem awfully pricey for something along the lines of like a 70 litre pack, especially for one I will have little use for after my trip. I‘m looking at like 300 bucks or more for a decent pack, is there anything you guys would recommend?

realistically, would something like a 64 or 80-something rucksack from a surplus store be a better choice? I‘d really rather save my money for stuff in Europe rather than blowing 350 on a backpack, so I was wondering if rummaging around at a local surplus store would be a good plan. thanks alot guys


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## JSA (7 Dec 2003)

I carried the old ruck (64 patttern) for the majority of my career and I still use it for camping/ hiking.  I like it because it is pretty versitial.  js


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## GregC (7 Dec 2003)

JSA- how much do you figure I could grab a 64 ruck for? And any tips on how to keep it watertight (covers, etc)


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## JSA (8 Dec 2003)

I‘m living up north for almost the past decade so I couldn‘t help you except to say check out your local surplus stores.  All you need is the frame as I think they sell bags that will fit (waterproof) at the PPCLI regt kitshop (or maybe the Airbourne one).  With a little bit of imagination you can rig any bag to the old frame (which was what made it so versatile).  The sleeping bag valise doesn‘t have to be the army one, most good bags come with valise‘s so thats not a problem unless your colour concious.  Surplus stores (at least when I was down there) always had collections of stuff (strapping, bags, pads etc) that most folks would regard as junk but an enterprising soldier could find use for.  In regards to waterproofing, I myself use the old favourite.. a green garbage bag and ziplock bags for individual items.  Good luck on your search and have a safe trip.  Oh yay and Merry Christmas.  js


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## JSA (8 Dec 2003)

Further to my last, there‘s a PPCLI WO who I believe is posted to Jerico Beach who can sew just about anything.  Check it out.  js


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## GregC (8 Dec 2003)

Thanks alot JSA, I‘m heading out tomorrow to see if I can find a good 64 or 82 ruck, thanks alot for your advice. Once I get all the stuff, I may need your assistance setting it up    Hopefully it‘s a straightforward system, I figure getting used to using systems like this will only help more for when I get to BMQ, that and having to find my way around Europe alone with a map and compass!

Merry Christmas to you too JSA, we need more guys like you on the board!


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## JSA (11 Dec 2003)

If your going into basic training, do what your told.  Any creativity in how you carry your kit can wait until your doing TQ 3 (whatever their calling it now) or later.  Best to be the ‘grey‘ man and learn everything you can.  Be aware though that everybody will want to show you how ‘they‘ do things.  You‘ll decide what works for you based on what works and don‘t hurt.  js


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