# Top soldier's farewell cost taxpayers $270,000



## GAP (25 Mar 2009)

Money well spent..........I wonder how much they spent on useless politician's goodbye's.....

Top soldier's farewell cost taxpayers $270,000
 STEVEN CHASE From Wednesday's Globe and Mail March 24, 2009 at 8:36 PM EDT
Article Link

OTTAWA — Taxpayers shelled out nearly $270,000 for a pomp-and-circumstance-charged farewell to Canada's top soldier last July, including $6,600 so that departing chief of the defence staff Rick Hillier could ride off into retirement aboard a tank.

Documents obtained under access-to-information legislation show that the military was determined to send off the charismatic retiring general in style after a three-year stint in which he re-energized the Canadian Forces and emerged as the highest-profile Canadian military leader in more than a quarter century.

“I intend to provide the necessary resources to mark the occasion in a fashion that recognizes the considerable contribution made by General Hillier,” a senior colonel wrote in “tasking orders” for the July 2, 2008, event, which also welcomed Walter Natynczyk as the new top general.

The Ottawa change-of-command ceremony included a 21-gun salute ($4,035), aerial acrobatics by the Canadian Snowbirds team ($23,101), and jumps by the Skyhawks, a military parachutist team ($3,137) according to the Department of National Defence.
More on link


----------



## my72jeep (25 Mar 2009)

Best buy so far. :nod:


----------



## Rifleman62 (25 Mar 2009)

Read some of the over 300 comments attached to the article. 

Typical Canadian "journalism" = sensationalism. Repeaters writing anything so they can be printed.


----------



## dapaterson (25 Mar 2009)

Of course, DND's somewhat puzzling systems of acounting dramatically understate the cost, as Reg F pay is not included, nor is depreciation of equipment.


----------



## PMedMoe (25 Mar 2009)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Read some of the over 300 comments attached to the article.



Some of them are good, though.  I like this one:



> Let me tell You How It Is from United States writes: So freakin what....the visit of a foreign Head of State Obama, the Son of God to the Canadian capital 'Iowa' for a 6 hour refuelling stop on Air Force One cost about $10 Million...where is the G&M outrage on this ..... or the costs of the time and effort to return that Canadian clown and loser Omar Khadr is approaching $50 Million...where is the outrage about that?



$270,000 is merely a drop in the bucket compared to some "farewell" party bills I've seen......


----------



## The Bread Guy (25 Mar 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Of course, DND's somewhat puzzling systems of acounting dramatically understate the cost, as *Reg F pay is not included*, nor is depreciation of equipment.



If that was counted, I'd imagine infantry battalion change of command parades could end up pretty pricey, too, even without extras.


----------



## dapaterson (25 Mar 2009)

True.  But there's an opportunity cost to activities - the pers who spend three days doing parade practices are not performing other tasks.

And equipment has a useful life, measured in miles or hours.  Using up that useful life needs to be captured as well.

I'm not debating whether the event was worthwhile, merely whether we accurately indicate the "cost" of what we do.


("Cost" being a four letter word to me, as it's used as an authoritative term, when in fact it's entirely open to interpretation and corruption)


----------



## geo (25 Mar 2009)

Hmmm....
It would be CHEAP at twice the cost.

Gen Hillier redefined the Canadian Forces
Canada has a real army once again
Troops walk a little taller & with a bit of a swagger.

Money well spent if you ask me...


----------



## kratz (25 Mar 2009)

In this particular case, I think it was funds well spent. To call it sensationalism is a bit off. When I first read this, it brought to mind the LFAA Change of Command a few years ago that cost quit a bit more. So while it is not unreasonable to question the cost, there have been grounds to do so in the past.


----------



## CountDC (25 Mar 2009)

I remember when they tried to make an LFAA change of command into a big story.  The Comd ignored the press and it blew away.  They were trying to include the wages of all the soldiers and the cost of shipping armoured vehicles from Gagetown.  Wages are paid whether the member is working or not - true they are not doing other tasks at that time but any tasks they would have been doing will be done by someone else or will be done by them when they return to work (my tasks didn't disappear while I was gone). The shipping of the vehicles were already in the budget - it was allocated as a move exercise so they merely had them do the move to Halifax - no extra expense. How many of these expenses were not of the same nature?

As an attendee at the event I did not see any big waste of dollars - how much does air time on the major networks cost? Even this article can be looked at as a good thing - the ones that will complain are anti-military anyway and no matter what we do they will slam it.  Puts the military out there and can't help wondering - how many young ones are now looking at this and saying - wow, they really know how to take care of the troops - I want a piece of that.

If that is all they spent then I say good for them.


----------



## Corey Darling (25 Mar 2009)

> a 21-gun salute ($4,035)



This isn't the cost of just the salute right? Or the whole ceremony related to the salute? Not that Gen. Hiller hasn't earned it, but why does a 21-gun salute on its own cost 4 grand when a Snow Bird flyby costs only 5 times more?

 ??? 

Just curious, what did I not take into account?


----------



## dapaterson (25 Mar 2009)

Again,"Cost" is a four letter word, as it can mean anything, depending on what is included or excluded.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (25 Mar 2009)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> This isn't the cost of just the salute right? Or the whole ceremony related to the salute? Not that Gen. Hiller hasn't earned it, but why does a 21-gun salute on its own cost 4 grand when a Snow Bird flyby costs only 5 times more?
> 
> ???
> 
> Just curious, what did I not take into account?



Sounds about right for the cost of the blank rounds.


----------



## Corey Darling (25 Mar 2009)

Ouch, blanks are expensive


----------



## Snakedoc (25 Mar 2009)

please, this is just a journalist digging for 'news' and trying to cause controversy where there isn't any...  If we wanted to play with cost numbers, what about the 'free' advertising afforded to the CF by all the news networks as a result of this event?  Maybe we can factor in the money saved in recruiting dollars if people are more encouraged to join? etc. etc.



			
				dapaterson said:
			
		

> Again,"Cost" is a four letter word, as it can mean anything, depending on what is included or excluded.



Absolutely agreed.  Money well spent.


----------



## The Bread Guy (25 Mar 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> ("Cost" being a four letter word to me, as it's used as an authoritative term, when in fact it's entirely open to interpretation and corruption)



Like statistics, what "cost" reveals is interesting, but what it hides is crucial....


----------



## 1feral1 (25 Mar 2009)

Just another demonstration of the media at its worst.

What ever happened to a good story and fair dinkum non biased reporting?

Its all about sensationalism, ratings, controversy, blood and guts, and of course collateral damage. The left side of things always seems to rear its head and gets the press.

The media belong in the same catagory as used car salesmen, politicians, divorce lawyers and bankers.

I have no respect for the media at all.

Yet again they have achieved a new high in low.

OWDU

EDITed for spelling


----------



## Rifleman62 (25 Mar 2009)

Add Real Estate Agents to your list. That was my recent experience in several Western Canadian locals.


----------



## Armymedic (25 Mar 2009)

I noticed Dawn Black was, once again, quoted in the article.

Do the journalist seek her out, or is it she (or her office, or party) who is gathering the dirt and giving it to the media?


----------



## rampage800 (25 Mar 2009)

Its kind of funny Dawn Black would make a big deal of this, shes not even the official opposition. If she wants to talk about a waste of taxpayers money I'd suggest she should look at her glorious leader Jack and then a quick glance in the mirror.

da-not sure how equipment depreciates over a 2-3 hour period


----------



## GGboy (26 Mar 2009)

If you read the story carefully there are some clues as to its origin. There are none of the usual "according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail through the Access to Information Act" or "according to documents left in a plain brown envelope on the doorstep of The Globe and Mail" phrases that indicate the newspaper dug this up on its own. Add to that the fact that Dawn Black was the only defence critic quoted (even usual suspects like David Staples were conspicuously absent) and I conclude that this was spoon-fed to the Globe by the NDP. Which would also explain why they ran it on page A7 instead of on the front...
So Dawn Black gets to wail about the horror of it all without taking the heat for initiating the story. While I take heart from many of the comments in the on-line edition of the story that support Hillier, maybe we should adjust fire slightly and aim some of the criticism of this cheap shot at the NDP ...


----------



## conet (27 Mar 2009)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> please, this is just a journalist digging for 'news' and trying to cause controversy where there isn't any...  If we wanted to play with cost numbers, what about the 'free' advertising afforded to the CF by all the news networks as a result of this event?  Maybe we can factor in the money saved in recruiting dollars if people are more encouraged to join? etc. etc.
> 
> Absolutely agreed.  Money well spent.



Absolutely. One of the main explanations for such a 'high' cost was that it was primarily intended as a recruiting drive in addition to a farewell ceremony. I'm certain the CF benefitted from a good number of people signing contracts afterwards.


----------



## HollywoodHitman (27 Mar 2009)

Money well spent to honour the man who brough relevance to our military again. In terms of Dawn Black looking in the mirror, she probably avoids it at all costs...

Rifleman62, not ALL realtors are scumbags ya know.....


----------



## Rifleman62 (27 Mar 2009)

HollywoodHitman 

Neither I nor Overwatch Downunder used the word "scumbags", which on careful reflection is possibly relevant. 

"All". Of course not.

WRT Dawn Black, I posted the following here http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28783.990.html :

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED

I have 4 extra tickets for the Robbie Knievel (son of Evil Knievel) event at the Encana Center (in Dawson Creek) this weekend.

He's going to try to jump over 1,000 Jack Layton supporters with a bulldozer.

Special guests to include Jack and Olivia Layton, plus Dawn Black who will be intimately co-located with their supporters.

Should be a pretty good time.

Let me know


----------



## HollywoodHitman (27 Mar 2009)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> HollywoodHitman
> 
> Neither I nor Overwatch Downunder used the word "scumbags", which on careful reflection is possibly relevant.
> 
> ...



For some reason it didn't post my comments....I laughed when I saw it, so I didn't take it personally! Anyway, too true. Just after I got back from the sandbox, I got to snub Dawn Black at a community event when I didnt bite, as she tried to get me to say something bad about the mission. I still smile in reflection on that moment.


----------



## wildman0101 (27 Mar 2009)

general rick hillier
excuse me...... 
the man walked the walk....
he can talk the talk....
he earned every dime he was paid..
i served 8-ch (PL ) with him 1975-1982 
and lahr germany  1984-1986
this man was a soldiers soldier 
he took care of his troops 
in every way shape and form...
ive personally seen him dig into his own pockets
and help a brother in arms...
as far as the parade (retirement) (change of command ect)
that was canada's way of saying thank-you 
priceless ................................................
                           scoty b

ps any fallout regards this post will be directed at me 
and me  only... copy


----------



## leroi (27 Mar 2009)

wildman0101 said:
			
		

> general rick hillier
> excuse me......
> the man walked the walk....
> he can talk the talk....
> ...



Awesome post, wildman0101! :nod:

The good General was a breath of fresh air to Canadian civilians, too.

I loved him because he had the balls courage to stand up to ordinary Canadians and tell them what you guys and gals do.

He was, as you say, a "soldier's soldier" and resisted becoming a "politician's soldier."

Money well spent!!


----------



## xo31@711ret (27 Mar 2009)

$270,000

...and a year or so ago, wasn't there a piece on how much our tax-payer,s $$$ were spent for our illustrious MOP's 'working lunches', airfare and 'publicity' jaunts around the globe. I remember reading a piece a little while ago how a click of MOP's or senators lounging around some first class hotel pool on the red sea


----------



## PMedMoe (28 Mar 2009)

I wonder what the cost of redecorating an office comes to?   Seems every time a new minister moves into an office, they have to "renovate" it.


----------



## smitty66 (28 Mar 2009)

$270,000 to say farewell to the finest CDS I've had to pleasure of serving under...not a problem in my opinion. The value of sending off Gen Hillier in style is well worth it!

Cheers


----------



## George Wallace (28 Mar 2009)

With inflation and all, I would say that $270,000 was a pittance compared to the farewells given some of his predecessors.


----------



## TrexLink (28 Mar 2009)

> New Democratic Party defence critic Dawn Black called the spending extravagant. “The word excessive doesn't seem to cover it, especially when we learn this during a time of restraint, when more and more Canadians are out of work,” she said.



Of course. And the ceremony was last summer, before the recession really hit.  Is she griping because she wasn't sent a personal list of expenses at the time or because the CDS (like politicians and bankers around the world) failed to foresee the economic problems?

Almost as funny as one of her never-served buddies having the cheek to wear a Legion blazer in public.


----------



## neilinkorea (29 Mar 2009)

This issue, IMHO, is not whether Hillier deserved a "big party" or not.  The same would have been done for a less respected CDS.  This is a government unit, the military, that is greater than the sum of its parts.  Part of what makes the military what it is is the ceremony surrounding it.  We give soldiers medals and ribbons, have promotion and change of command ceremonies, and have military parades.  This is all part of what defines the military and builds esprit de corps.  I am totally against wasteful spending on the part of government.  However events like a sendoff for an outgoing CDS are necessary and do cost money.  Military accountants should be defending expenditures like that and calling them training and recruiting/promotional expenses as much as they can.


----------



## geo (29 Mar 2009)

Consider the cost of a PM or President doing his final overseas tour of his G8 buddies....
You want a waste of money..... there's one


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (29 Mar 2009)

I wonder how far the GG gets on $270,000? 

The Byward market,......maybe.


----------



## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2009)

At least the cost covered the departure of the CDS, a change of command and an event for the families of fallen soldiers.  I wonder what the City of Ottawa is getting for its $30,000 cocktail party?


----------



## GregC (30 Mar 2009)

If only the public knew what The Rock (our knewly consecrated memorial to our fallen) outside 3VP lines cost in money, material, and men... that would be an uproar!


----------

