# BMQ personal kit search



## MasterRaistlin

Hey folks,

  Well...2 days until I leave for BMQ. Getting everything together here, but I have a question I was hoping someone could answer. I've had quite a few conflicting answers to it so here goes:

On BMQ are the instructors allowed to search your personal kit?

My Sgt said that they'll do a thorough search through everything and take away stuff that you "won't need" for the first few weeks. However, a buddy of mine who just did his BMQ last year said that, by law, he didn't think that they could do that without good reason (like a stereo or a restricted item or something).

So, any stories folks?


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## willy

Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.


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## Limpy

When it comes to kit inspections and wether or not your instructors can search your kit, just wait till a C7 mag goes missing then you will really know the answer (just hope you didn't lose it!). So just bring what you need and and inspections shouldn't be a problem.


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## Korus

I posted this story in another topic a day or two ago, so I'll give the abridged version..

Yes, like Limpy says, if something important like a part of a weapon goes missing, they WILL search everyones personal kit.

Also, if you leave your kit unlocked/unsecured, expect it to be torn appart when you return to it.


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## Sundborg

Once you arrive at your BMQ, they will look through your kit briefly to make sure you don't have any restricted items.  But while you are there, they don't really have any reason to.  You wont really have any real spot to put your personal kit other than the Bag storage; in your locker you only have the items you need for the course, like your clothing for example.  Everytime you have an inspection they will go though it, so if you have anything, they'll find it...  they know all the spots.  Like Roko said, if you leave anything out during the day, or unlocked, it will be torn apart and messed up, and you will be given a directive.  And maybe even when you get back from your day's work, you'll have a scare-crow on your bed, wearing all of your cloths; filled with them too.  It happened to quite a few guys on my course.  pretty funny actually.


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## Michael OLeary

Ripping apart a bedspace may seem like good fun, but it's legality can be questionable, and it gets very problematic if illegal contraband is found.

There's a fine line between what constitutes a inspection under normal customs and practices of the service and what may be an act that would be construed as an illegal search if contraband was found. Course staff have to be careful to establish what the normal inspection practices are and then adhere to them. That's one reason why recruits in Basic Training are limited in the personal belongings they have and that all or most of their personal bedspace is open to normal inspections. An unannounced "tearing apart" of a soldier's kit might not have the desired result if the JAG establishes that evidence was gathered as the result of an illegal search that should have been the subject of a warrant issued by the Commanding Officer.


The following are the specific paragraphs from the National Defence Act covering inspections and searches.



*National Defence Act* 
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/N-5/index.html

*PART V MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS HAVING GENERAL APPLICATION*
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/n-5/85405.html




> Inspections
> 
> 273.1 The Governor in Council may make regulations
> 
> (a) authorizing the inspection, in accordance with the custom or practice of the service, of any person or thing in, on or about
> 
> (i) any defence establishment, work for defence or materiel, or
> 
> (ii) any quarters under the control of the Canadian Forces or the Department; and
> 
> (b) respecting the access to, exclusion from and safety and conduct of persons in, on or about any defence establishment, work for defence or materiel, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, regulations
> 
> (i) respecting the inspection of persons and property entering, exiting or on any such place or materiel, and
> 
> (ii) requiring any person, as a condition of being given access to that place or materiel, to submit, on demand, to a search of the person and the person's personal or movable property while entering or exiting that place or materiel or any restricted area within that place or materiel.
> 
> R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 59; 1998, c. 35, s. 84.
> 
> 
> 
> Searches
> 
> 273.2 Except as provided for by regulations made pursuant to section 273.1, the following, namely,
> 
> (a) quarters under the control of the Canadian Forces or the Department and occupied for residential purposes by any person subject to the Code of Service Discipline either alone or with that person's dependants, as well as any locker or storage space located in those quarters and exclusively used by that person or those dependants for personal purposes, and
> 
> (b) the personal or movable property of any person subject to the Code of Service Discipline located in, on or about any defence establishment, work for defence or materiel,
> 
> may be searched only if a warrant for that purpose has been issued or the search is otherwise authorized by law.
> 
> R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 59; 1998, c. 35, s. 85.
> 
> 
> Warrant by commanding officer
> 
> 273.3 Subject to sections 273.4 and 273.5, a commanding officer who is satisfied by information on oath that there is in any quarters, locker, storage space or personal or movable property referred to in section 273.2
> 
> (a) anything on or in respect of which any offence against this Act has been or is believed on reasonable grounds to have been committed,
> 
> (b) anything that there are reasonable grounds to believe will afford evidence with respect to the commission of an offence against this Act, or
> 
> (c) anything that there are reasonable grounds to believe is intended to be used for the purpose of committing any offence against the person for which a person may be arrested without warrant,
> 
> may issue a warrant authorizing any officer or non-commissioned member named in the warrant, assisted by such other officers and non-commissioned members as are necessary, or a peace officer, to search the quarters, locker, storage space or personal or movable property for any such thing, and to seize and carry it before that commanding officer.
> 
> R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 59; 1998, c. 35, s. 86.
> 
> 
> Investigating commanding officer
> 
> 273.4 The commanding officer who carries out or directly supervises the investigation of any matter may issue a warrant pursuant to section 273.3 in relation to that investigation only if that commanding officer believes on reasonable grounds that
> 
> (a) the conditions for the issuance of the warrant exist; and
> 
> (b) no other commanding officer is readily available to determine whether the warrant should be issued.
> 
> R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 59.
> 
> 
> Military police
> 
> 273.5 Section 273.3 does not apply to a commanding officer of a military police unit.
> 
> R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 59.


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## Pugnacious

"And maybe even when you get back from your day's work, you'll have a scare-crow on your bed, wearing all of your cloths; filled with them too.   It happened to quite a few guys on my course.   pretty funny actually."

Hahahahaha!   ;D
Oh man that is funny.

I tell yah if I joint, the only personal item I'm brining is MYSELF.
And of course what is mentioned here:
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13460.0
But are you allowed a little pocket knife if it stays in your pocket?

BTW: this site is a fantastic resource!
P.


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## AlphaCharlie

You're allowed to have knives yes. A small combat knife is good, but no 10" Rambo knives. 


I wonder if books would be taken away?


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## bossi

> You're allowed to have knives yes. A small combat knife is good, but no 10" Rambo knives.
> I wonder if books would be taken away?



First of all, I'm reasonably certain there's a Canadian law that governs the length of knives
(i.e. under the Criminal Code of Canada)
When you're a recruit, "uniformity" is being stressed, therefore any individual who goes "too far" vis-a-vis festooning him/herself with gardening utensils or small forestry/harvesting devices will be told to put them away.

As for books ... the short answer is "no" - that's not supposed to happen in a democracy
(unless, of course, the books are illegal ... as per illegal knives, as discussed, above).


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## AlphaCharlie

Damn. So much for having a nice military novel to read to get me motivated!


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## Pugnacious

Darn I really wanted to bring my big Austrian Harvest Sythe (I'm not kidding I collect these) , but then again I'd prob' be put to work hand mowing the back 40 on the base with it. ;D

I have a small folding knife which is legal, and a legal Cold steel SRK recon 6" single edged fixed blade, black parkerized.
I'd only bring the folding one though.  I also have one of those letherman tools, but I read that you get one like it...is this true?  
Do you get issued a knife or bayonet in your take home kit?

Also I was wonder what the picture frame was for? 
And what is the purpose of it in basic training?
And what type of pic would they like in it?

Sorry for the dum questions, and yes I have looked around this site for the answers.
Cheers!
P.


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## AlphaCharlie

Well, a knife is always nice to have. I personally have a SOG Seal Pup with a 3.75" fixed blade, and it's great. Secondly, about bayonettes, no, you do not get issued one, as they are part of your EIS (extra infantry sh*t  ) and they are issued when you get your weapon, and you turn it in when you hand you weapon back in. The issued multi-tool (Gerber) is a good thing to have, but they only issue them when you're fully qualified.

About the picture frame... no idea. I didn't have to bring one on mine.


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## Michael OLeary

The picture frame is for a picture of your girlfriend or significant other. Apparently some staff think it's cute to make every soldier have one so that all the bunkspaces look alike. If they make you get one and you don't have a girlfriend, find any photo that you like, they don't know what your girlfriend would look like anyway.


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## Korus

> If they make you get one and you don't have a girlfriend, find any photo that you like, they don't know what your girlfriend would look like anyway.



PRIVATE BLOGGINS!!! Brooke Burke is NOT your girlfriend!


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## 1feral1

Mate, to avoid drawing any unnecessary attention to yourself, just take whats on the kit list, plus a few personal items too. I dont think you'll have time to read 'recreationally' for a while.

As for knives, I find the Swiss Army Knife w/2 inch blade, scissors, file/screw driver, tweezer and tooth pick adequite or even a Swiss Army 'card', as it tucks into your wallet. 

Of all the knives, and bayonets I have carried, this little knife works the best, valued here in Australia at abou $18-$22.

Best of luck in your training.

Regards,

Wes


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## bgreen

Not withstanding the issues raised by Bossi about uniformity and Wes about the Swiss army knife both of which I agree with, here are some things you might consider for the fieldcraft portion of your training.  In your health kit roll include a small metal mirror and a toothbrush cover to keep the crude out and some liquid handsoap and shampoo in small bottles like you get in hotels.  I also use a small 35 mm film canister stocked with wooden matches that are wind and rain proof stored face down  with the striker plate glued inside the lid.  I also take about 4 large dark bungey cords and a small amount of para cord to set my groundsheet houch up faster. Remember anyone can be uncomfortable in the field but you must learn to enjoy the outdoors (outback for Wes).  Cheers
BG


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## ZipperHead

Reference the photo in your locker: if your mom is hot (a "cougar") put a photo of her in there. Most Sgt's will spend more time admiring your mom than looking at all the grunge in your soap dish  

Al


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## Raquette

Do you think I could bring a CD player with a few CDs ? Or it is prohibbed ?


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## KevinB

Where might I ask did you did up the length of a blade being legal in the CC of Canada?
I used to carry a machete no one ever arrested me (well for that at least)

Bring the minimun of kit you need to get by, by and large you wont be using your civvies that often.


 Kit can be checked for contraband however when it is done there is usually a warning and time to beg forgiveness prior.


The nice little signs on the base explaining what is a defence establishment has been deemed to be fair warning.  We had room searches of guys who were overseas that were allowed...


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## NavyGrunt

Actually the criminal code doesnt talk specifically about blade length. It instead talks about prohibited types of knives. It used to have a blade length section however its been gone for sometime. You have to have a legitimate reason for the knife besides "self defense". Unless your a fully qualified knife fighter and have reason to believe you require that knife for defense.


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## Pugnacious

"Unless your a fully qualified knife fighter and have reason to believe you require that knife for defense."

Very true...Let me digress for a bit and add some stuff.

I'd open the Canadian criminal code book and do some quotes but I'm off to vote so I'll be quick.
In Canada EVERYTHING is considered a 'potential weapon'.  
Some weapons are specifide only to outline wether they are restriced (need permits) or prohibited (illegal to have)...ie handguns, Assualt weapons etc.

There is no qualification for knives, or registration.
Training courses are not outlined, and the law, and the leagl beagles consider you an expert after one week end course, but even this is not really outlined.

The colour of the law basicly says (in my own words here) you better have  a good reason why you have said knife tucked in your belt in so and so situation.
BTW: "for self defence" IS a valid reason, as is utility. The overall picture with regards to the situation is what the police are looking at.

Also understand that if you use the knife (or any other weapon) you had better be in very dire situation of life and death or you will prob' be charged with active participation..or some such nasty...even with the attackers knife still in your gut.

I firmly believe that if you have a knife know how and when to use it, but understand even in self defence the legal mess one is going to have to deal with is prob' as bad as the assult on ones person in the first place.  The legal system in Canada can be a really tricky place. And you can always be dragged back into court by the attacker who is now sueing you for damages (believe it or not it has happend).

I know this as I have studied knife fighting for many years, and watched many go through this.  Furthermore the first thing we where taught as a 'civillian' student was how to AVOID the situation, and how to GET AWAY as fast as possible...running heel-to-toe.  We were also taught the FBI's R.A.D system ie...Recognize danger, Avoid said danger, and failing the first 2 steps if need be Defend self, but aim to disengage and cycle back to the first, and second step.  Take this info into court and the judge will recognize you are not only trained, but made efforts to stay disengaged from the fight in a civil manner... COVER YOUR A$$.  ;D

Play safe, and you may no return this topic to its upright position.
Cheers!
P.


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## KevinB

Knives are tools, if it is the only tool you have...


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## pissedpat

I'm on weekend leave from BMQ in Chilliwack right now so I am assuming that the original poster is on the later serial that arrived on sunday so the way I was treated is likely similar to how they will be treated. No personal knives over 4", kit inspection on arrival, and the best of all, the Chilliwack barracks are on RCMP property and therefor the few rights you have in the military about searches needing JAG warrents are moot. Long story short, don't bring booze drugs or knives, keep your shit locked and neat and cell phones and radios are allowed if you don't do anything too stupid. Don't blast the listen to them without head phones and ensure that the only time your phone is turned on/on you is once you are off for the day.


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## portcullisguy

While I don't want to (nor am qualified to) give a law lesson on weapons, as a customs officer I am required to know plenty about weapons laws as part of my job is to make a determination about the classification of goods and permit or deny their entry into Canada based on those laws.

The Criminal Code defines weapons, and to summarize it, includes anything deisgned or intended to be used as a weapon.  Knives are not named specifically, but are included under "designed" or "intended" in most instances.  For example, a butter knife is not designed to be a weapon, but if you stab someone with it, then you intended it so.  Similarly, a switchblade is designed as a weapon (it has no practical manufactured use aside from that), but not necessarily intended as one if you just collect them.  So why is one illegal, and the other not?

The asmwer is the Prohibited Weapons Orders, issued by Order-in-Council.  The Criminal Code allows the government to issue orders-in-council prescribing certain weapons (and devices, and ammunition, and firearms) as prohibited, restricted, etc.

Most knives are ok.  The ones that are not include:

- "Flick" knives (a knife that can be opened merely by centrifugal force, or flicking your wrist)
- Switchblades (a spring loaded or mechanically assisted knife that opens by button or release on the HANDLE ... buttons/levers on the blade are ok)
- Any device concealing a blade and which is disguised as an innocuous object (a lighter with a knife, a belt buckle with a knife, etc)
- A gravity knife
- Any bladed device with the handle perpendicular to the blade (a push dagger)
- A butterfly knife (again, opens by centrifugal force)

There is no limit on blade length, except as an exception to the above rules.  For example, a sword cane is not illegal, because it is over 30cm in length.  If you ever found a switchblade that was over a foot long, it would be legal as well.

These PWO's classify certain goods and make them illegal or illegal depending on what the government believes their designed use is.  However, as I pointed out before, the "intended" use can also make something illegal.  A concealed weapon is illegal, even if the item itself is legal.  If I go walking around with a steak knife taped to my forearm under the sleeve, and get caught, I'll have a hard time explaining it's my favourite steak knife and I was going to a restaurant to order up a T-bone.

Which brings us to a final point -- something is only unlawful if it's caught.  But my advice is, not to take chances.  If you don't need it, don't carry it.  I only carry a small folding pocket knife for work.  I don't carry it any other time anymore.  Odds are, if you end up in a knife fight with someone who knows how to use one, you are better off not having a knife of your own.


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## Pugnacious

Good info from Customs guy.
And sorry in advance I'm going to prattle on a bit more...

IMHO one really needs to know the laws of the land, a how many laws don't make any sense at all, and I suspect many where prob' written by people sitting in an office reading magazines saying "oh that looks nasty, lets bann it!" with littel practicle knowledge on the subject.  Let a Customs officer or a Peace officer write the book, and things would look much better IMHO.

For example...
Regarding what you wrote: - "Flick" knives (a knife that can be opened merely by centrifugal force, or flicking your wrist)

Here is an interesting example... I have a small 4" single blade Kershaw folding knife, it has a thumb "index point" along the top back of the blade so it can be opened one handed / thumb..that is physicaly opened... non mechanicly, there are no springs or such mech'.  

Now tech' I can also 'flck-it' open via centrifugal force..like any good folding BUCK knife also...with the wrist action mentioned or by holding the top back edge of the blade.It isn't designed for this, but it can function like this.

In comparison this can be done MUCH faster then a butterfly knife ie.. Balisong (which I'm trained with), and BTW a bit further off topic part of the butterfly knifes operation, and design is not just in the opening of the blade, but grapples, pinches, joint manipulation, and such...which is seldom seen on the streets of Canada.

My little Kershaw is sold at many knife shops around Canada in malls etc, and makes it through customs OK by he thousands all the time. 
RCMP have looked at it over the years when I leave it with them at the front desk If I have to testify in court via security job stuff, and never batted an eye. Other then to say "nice knife, I'd like to get one". I also often see ER teams and Ambulance people carry them.

Of course I carry it for utility only as well.  
Besides which only an idiot in this day and age of Aids, and hepatitis 1, 2 and 3 would want someone bleeding all over them.

Don't bring it if yu don't need it is really good advice.
Cheers!
P.


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## The_Falcon

Myself and Portcullis Guy actually had a conversation about this not to long ago with some other members of our unit when we were leaving Florida.   The one thing that was mentioned that he did not bring up here but you did Pugnacious, if the "what if" I have a totally legal folding knife, but through simple wear/oiling/or maniplutation, I can "flick" the blade open.   Well the short answer is you have an illegal knife.   It does not matter if the knife originally could be flicked open, it can now.   If a cop ever stopped you (or the cops at the court house ever checked) and the cop could flick the knife himself (that is the key though) you could be in deep doo doo. Now chances are the cop might not know the law very well, or he simply may not care, it is his perogative to do something about it.   As for stores selling illegal knives and martial arts weapons like nunchuks, they are at the bottom of the list when it comes to enforcement, because lets face it illegal firearm/drugs/forged identity document are a much higher priority and get all the attention.

Oh and about the original topic, the only time I have ever heard of kit searches, they always involved the MPs


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## Pugnacious

Strange when you can go into any Canadian Mall and walk into a knife shpe and buy them..they are checked at the boarder, and let through.
I guess it helps if yah get a clumbsy cop.  ;D

Pretty cool site:
http://www.kershawknives.com/
My knife is the Ken onion design 'whirlwind', I bring it everywhere..very handy.

Cheers!
P.


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## AlphaCharlie

I've learned that it depends on course staff.

On my BMQ they didn't care if you had one, but on my SQ (weekend leave atm) there is NO civvie knives at all, not even in the field (which is BS and I hate it so fucking much because I use my knife all the time in the field).


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## portcullisguy

I would really like to reassure you all that everything you find sold at stores in malls has been checked by a competent customs officer at a border crossing somewhere.

But the truth is, we can't inspect every shipment of everything, and a lot of times, goods are imported illegally and successfully simply because they are misdescribed - intentionally or not.  This is precisely how a high school student in Hamilton was able to obtain a fully operational AK-47 by mail, shipped from a seller in the US, who described it as "aluminum baseball bats".

As a customs officer, or any other joe blow, are you really going to devote a lot of time and attention to a long package marked baseball bats going to an innocuous address in Hamilton?  I'd like to say yes, it should have been looked at, but the simple fact is, not everything gets examined.

For the same reason, knives that are or can become illegal by definition make it in all the time, same as air soft guns, most of which are prohibited because they are considered replicas (a replica is a device that is NOT a firearm, but which imitates one with near precision ... they are not firearms because the projectile they fire is under the required muzzle velocity).

I have a Cold Steel 3" folding knife, bought here in Canada from a reputable mall knife dealer.  Through repeated use and practice, I can usually flick it open on the first try.  If I were classifying it for entry into Canada, I would have to prohibit it based on that.  However, the legal test is if someone ELSE can also flick it open reliably.  The courts have agreed that some people have a better technique than others, and if it can't be flicked reliably by most people, then it's not a flick knife.  There was a case involving a brilliant defense lawyer and a not so brilliant crown, with regards to a knife whose classification was under review at the Federal Court level.  The crown permitted the defense to attempt to flick the knife, and he could not.  The defense then offered the judge to do the same, and he couldn't either.  Case dismissed.  The judge proved through his own actions that the knife couldn't be flicked, even if someone else claims they can do it themselves.  Now, any knife we at customs claim to be a flick knife has to be checked by at least two officers, otherwise we're not going to bother holding it.

Luckily for us, flick knives are actually the least of our worries.

We are usually too busy trying to stop switch blades, mace and tear gas sprays, push daggers, butterfly knives, knives concealed in every day items such as lighters, and martial arts type weapons from coming in to the country.  And, that's only when we've run out of kiddie porn and other obscene material, restricted and prohibited firearms and ammunition, controlled drugs and substances, people on arrest warrants and drunk drivers, missing/abdusted children and their abductors, proceeds of crime, forged documents, illegal immigrants, terrorists, or a host of other contraband and smugglers we look for daily.  And once in a while, we actually collect some duties and taxes on dutiable goods, in order to protect Canadian economy.

There are about 4,500 customs officers across Canada, working at 6 major airports, and over a dozen busy border crossings, as well as four international mail centres, and various marine ports, and other ports of entry, sharing a border with a country with over 275 million in population, and where over 54% of households contain at least one firearm, and the #1 destination country for almost every drug there is, and for which we are usually a transshipment point, as well as the #1 destination for illegal immigrants worldwide.  Yes, we are quite busy sometimes, and it's very possible we may not get to every single shipment of dodgy mall knives coming in to the country.


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## Infanteer

I was going to say "why are we wasting the time on a "flick" knife?" until I read this



> We are usually too busy trying to stop switch blades, mace and tear gas sprays, push daggers, butterfly knives, knives concealed in every day items such as lighters, and martial arts type weapons from coming in to the country.   And, that's only when we've run out of kiddie porn and other obscene material, restricted and prohibited firearms and ammunition, controlled drugs and substances, people on arrest warrants and drunk drivers, missing/abdusted children and their abductors, proceeds of crime, forged documents, illegal immigrants, terrorists, or a host of other contraband and smugglers we look for daily.   And once in a while, we actually collect some duties and taxes on dutiable goods, in order to protect Canadian economy.
> 
> There are about 4,500 customs officers across Canada, working at 6 major airports, and over a dozen busy border crossings, as well as four international mail centres, and various marine ports, and other ports of entry, sharing a border with a country with over 275 million in population, and where over 54% of households contain at least one firearm, and the #1 destination country for almost every drug there is, and for which we are usually a transshipment point, as well as the #1 destination for illegal immigrants worldwide.   Yes, we are quite busy sometimes, and it's very possible we may not get to every single shipment of dodgy mall knives coming in to the country.



It's good to know you guys are on the ball, keep up the good work (ie: one reason my country doesn't look like a Pakistani bazaar).   

PS:  The gorgeous girl working customs in YVR gave me a hard time, especially when I told her I was Army, did you leave her hanging or something?


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## Pugnacious

Good info...

Yet strange how the American government keeps bitching about our weak border security.
I even read that the US is buying survalance drones from Israel to patrol both the South and the North of their borders.
And I also hear they are also fingerprinting Canadians visiting the US.

When are we going to do the same to them?  
IMHO they need to double you guys, and pay you better. 

As far as e-quip goes..I have seen any cases goto court over the years and get thrown out for the silliest things.
I'm not worried about my folding knife...esp' when it is such a revolving door for real Hard core crimes in this country.

As a security guard try arresting the same person 2 twice per day for B&E, and watch the courts give him a slap on the wrist.
When it is a life time in prison offense.

Cheers!
P.


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## portcullisguy

Infanteer, it seems the best looking chicks in customs all seem to work in Pacific Region, and sadly I don't know any of them from YVR (except one who recently transferred to YYZ).  Actually she traded places with a friend of mine, who ain't half bad looking herself, but who went to a small land border out there.

But I digress.  What I was going to say was you broke the #1 rule in crossing the border ... NEVER, EVER go to a female customs inspector, if you have the choice.  Even the women I work with say that.  They mostly agree that they are a lot harder on people, although I don't care to speculate as to why.

Always go to a guy.


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## Scott

About kit inspections, we tore apart our rooms for 7 hours when one unlucky troop from our sister platoon "misplaced" the bolt from a C9. The staff and Redhats were present for our kit inspections.

Pictures, just go to Walmart and get a frame with the pic already in it. One of my cohorts did this to the ongoing amusement of the staff.

Oh, and for those of you who like to take souvenirs from your conquests with the ladies, you may not want to include these items in your personal kit. One Seargent found two such items in the possesion of a troop in the room across from me. There was stunned silence, mocking questions and the teasing he had to put up with after, don't draw attention to yourself.


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## portcullisguy

On my SQ/BIQ, one of our Sergeants was "unofficially" offering rewards for such evidence of exploits, and in particular, if it were to cause you to be later or more hung over than him the next day.  Of course, you'd still have to face the charge parade, but at least you could look forward to a beer or three being bought for you at the course party.

I'll never tell what regiment he was, but I can say it rhymed with "Argylls".


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## ringo_mountbatten

Pugnacious said:
			
		

> And I also hear they are also fingerprinting Canadians visiting the US.



the u.s. is not fingerprinting cdn citizens, just everybody else.  plus it is more like a fingerprint scanner anyway.  fingerprinting everyone would take forever.


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## Pugnacious

Ahh gotcha...the other day I saw the fingerprint scanner on the TV news...good thing as that Black ink normaly used is a real 'B-word' to clean off of stuff. ;D

Also my wife is already   a hot cougar so I'll save the frustration, and bring a pic of my dogs.

Cheers!
P.


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## kiltedtradesman

Just spit on you fingers to wet them and the ink comes off easier with the paper towel.  Just make sure when you spit, most of it lands on their counter or the paper work on the counter.


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## homerjsimpson

Most of these responses are the reason why the Canadian Army is goint to shit.


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## Da_man

Bring anything you want.  As long as it fits in your kit bags during inspection, they dont give a shit.


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## AndrewWGrieve

Someone mentioned that they were going to Summer Training Company in Chilliwack this summer.  I believe the rule for STC, in accordance with the standing orders, is no knives over six inches.


----------



## clasper

ringo_mountbatten said:
			
		

> the u.s. is not fingerprinting cdn citizens, just everybody else.



Actually the US is fingerprinting everybody except Canadian tourists.  If you are a resident alien on a work or student visa, you get fingerprinted, even if you are Canadian.  Canadians with work visas used to be able to go through the "American" line at US customs, but now we have to go through the "Other passports" line to get fingerprinted with the rest of the world (although they're still letting some Canadian tourists go through the "American" line).


----------



## Brett

AlphaCharlie said:
			
		

> The issued multi-tool (Gerber) is a good thing to have, but they only issue them when you're fully qualified.



Not true. I recieved my gerber when I recieved my kit.. I had no military training whatsoever. The gerber came in handy, though.

on my bmq, i had to wear my 2IC's tac vest because my unit didn't issue me one and the 1940 webbing I recieved up in meaford on my bmq was low-standard so my 2IC let me use his tac vest when we were on the C7 range... he had a nice little knife in his tac vest that I kept playing with.


----------



## Franko

Nova said:
			
		

> Not true. I recieved my gerber when I recieved my kit.. I had no military training whatsoever. The gerber came in handy, though.
> 
> on my bmq, i had to wear my 2IC's tac vest because my unit didn't issue me one and the 1940 webbing I recieved up in meaford on my bmq was low-standard so my 2IC let me use his tac vest when we were on the C7 range... he had a nice little knife in his tac vest that I kept playing with.



Take a look on the date of the post you quoted. Things have changed since 2004.

I also doubt you had 1940 webbing, more like the 1984 pattern.          

Regards


----------



## Loachman

Or 1982 pattern.


----------



## Big Foot

Nova said:
			
		

> Not true. I recieved my gerber when I recieved my kit.. I had no military training whatsoever. The gerber came in handy, though.
> 
> on my bmq, i had to wear my 2IC's tac vest because my unit didn't issue me one and the 1940 webbing I recieved up in meaford on my bmq was low-standard so my 2IC let me use his tac vest when we were on the C7 range... he had a nice little knife in his tac vest that I kept playing with.


Moreover, the Gerber is not supposed to be issued, AFAIK (correct me on this here, Vern), until you are fully qualified. For example, I've been in the army for four and a half years, albeit at RMC, and I have repeatedly been told that I will not receive my multi tool until I am DP1.2 qualified. Could be different for NCMs or in the Reserves, but I'm just speaking from my experience here.


----------



## armyvern

Big Foot said:
			
		

> Moreover, the Gerber is not supposed to be issued, AFAIK (correct me on this here, Vern), until you are fully qualified. For example, I've been in the army for four and a half years, albeit at RMC, and I have repeatedly been told that I will not receive my multi tool until I am DP1.2 qualified. Could be different for NCMs or in the Reserves, but I'm just speaking from my experience here.



Ahhh the gerber. What a screwed up scale of entitlement for it!! The Army ...  :

IAW scale of entitlements ... NO ONE is entitled to a gerber until successful completion of QL3s or CAP. Res F or Reg F -- no difference.

Now THAT makes a hell of a lot of sense no? You can have your gerber AFTER your major field qualification is done. The field, of course, being where these things are most required. This one always makes me wonder about how they come up with this stuff at the puzzle palace.

Not too many CSGs I know who do not use common dog and issue them out to CAP or QL3 courses (and for QL3s to trades ie Engr or 031 etc who would actually use them on the course) despite the "rules" anyway. This is another glitch in the scale which is frequently addressed by CSGs staffs.

Same as safety boots ... an engineer isn't entitled to them until he/she's completed their QL3s ... now that makes fucking sense. Who is at a higher risk of hurting their foot ??? I'd think it'd be the brand new engineers who are just learning (may drop big log onto foot!!  >).


----------



## Franko

Loachman said:
			
		

> Or 1982 pattern.



Crap, my bad. Thanks.

Regards


----------



## chrisf

Big Foot said:
			
		

> Moreover, the Gerber is not supposed to be issued, AFAIK (correct me on this here, Vern), until you are fully qualified. For example, I've been in the army for four and a half years, albeit at RMC, and I have repeatedly been told that I will not receive my multi tool until I am DP1.2 qualified. Could be different for NCMs or in the Reserves, but I'm just speaking from my experience here.



Or for the sake of $6 (Or translated into studentese, the price of about two beers) you could buy yourself a cheapy multi-tool which accomplishes everything a gerber does. Just make sure the knife on it doesn't "flick" open.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Ahhh the gerber. What a screwed up scale of entitlement for it!! The Army ...  :
> 
> *IAW scale of entitlements ... NO ONE is entitled to a gerber until successful completion of QL3s or CAP. Res F or Reg F -- no difference*.
> 
> Now THAT makes a hell of a lot of sense no? You can have your gerber AFTER your major field qualification is done. The field, of course, being where these things are most required. This one always makes me wonder about how they come up with this stuff at the puzzle palace.
> 
> *Not too many CSGs I know who do not use common dog and issue them out to CAP or QL3 courses (and for QL3s to trades ie Engr or 031 etc who would actually use them on the course) despite the "rules" anyway. This is another glitch in the scale which is frequently addressed by CSGs staffs.*
> 
> *Same as safety boots ... an engineer isn't entitled to them until he/she's completed their QL3s * ... now that makes fucking sense. Who is at a higher risk of hurting their foot ??? I'd think it'd be the brand new engineers who are just learning (may drop big log onto foot!!  >).



Now that I didn't know.

I guess that's why on the Joining Instructions for CFSME it says Safety Boots (if issued)

BTW Vern there is a rumor that we are actually entitled to 2 sets of safety boots any truth in that?


----------



## armyvern

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> Now that I didn't know.
> 
> I guess that's why on the Joining Instructions for CFSME it says Safety Boots (if issued)
> 
> BTW Vern there is a rumor that we are actually entitled to 2 sets of safety boots any truth in that?



RegF members are entitled to 2 pairs. ResF members are only entitled to 1 pair of Safety boots ... Unless on a C or B class contract -- then it's upped to 2 pairs. 

Guess you should have came to clothing to get your second pair while you were here this summer ...  >

What we usually do for QL3s at CFSME BTW, is the Crse O writes us up a memo listing the candiates names & SNs for each course and send it over to us. I then wrote up another memo (well when I was the CSG Supr -- the new supr is doing the same thing though) in which I authorized my staff to issue to the pers on the attached list (and attached the CFSME Memo) as a "due diligence requirement for personnel safety." That way, if anyone in centre has an issue with these students getting the footwear they actually SHOULD be entitled to for this course ... they can deal with me -- vice the troops who actually performed the issue.

I did have a complaint about my troops performing "unauthorized issues to unentitled pers" about 3 years ago -- and responded that they should fix the damn scale then; my CoC backed me up as did the BGenSafO... we haven't heard from them since.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> RegF members are entitled to 2 pairs. ResF members are only entitled to 1 pair of Safety boots ... Unless on a C or B class contract -- then it's upped to 2 pairs.
> 
> Guess you should have came to clothing to get your second pair while you were here this summer ...  >
> 
> What we usually do for QL3s at CFSME BTW, is the Crse O writes us up a memo listing the candiates names & SNs for each course and send it over to us. I then wrote up another memo (well when I was the CSG Supr -- the new supr is doing the same thing though) in which I authorized my staff to issue to the pers on the attached list (and attached the CFSME Memo) as a "due diligence requirement for personnel safety." That way, if anyone in centre has an issue with these students getting the footwear they actually SHOULD be entitled to for this course ... they can deal with me -- vice the troops who actually performed the issue.
> 
> *I did have a complaint about my troops performing "unauthorized issues to unentitled pers" about 3 years ago -- and responded that they should fix the damn scale then; my CoC backed me up as did the BGenSafO... we haven't heard from them since.*



LOL yeah I still got the old style "clown boots" 

I wonder who had a bug up their ass to do that complaint.


----------



## armyvern

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> LOL yeah I still got the old style "clown boots"
> 
> I wonder who had a bug up their ass to do that complaint.



Every transaction we Sup techs do logs our SN onto the system so it's not hard to see what we individuals are doing. ... they're just enforcing the scales ... they don't make them either.


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## Nfld Sapper

And you think that they would have fixed the scale long ago.


----------



## spenco

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Ahhh the gerber. What a screwed up scale of entitlement for it!! The Army ...  :
> 
> IAW scale of entitlements ... NO ONE is entitled to a gerber until successful completion of QL3s or CAP. Res F or Reg F -- no difference.




I'm not sure about that one, I got my gerber when I got to wainwright and I havent even started my QL3 yet.  Actually pretty much everyone here  has a gerber issued to them.


----------



## armyvern

spenco said:
			
		

> I'm not sure about that one, I got my gerber when I got to wainwright and I havent even started my QL3 yet.  Actually pretty much everyone here  has a gerber issued to them.



Trust me. IAW the scale YOU were not entitled to it.

Just like the CAP candidiates that we issue them to here anyway ... read the whole post.

I'm sure -- it's what they PAY me to know. Glad to see that my fellow Sup techs out there are actually using common dawg as well, as I stated before.


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Just like the CAP candidiates that we issue them to here anyway ...



I'll attest to that ;D after 3 years of being told I was not entitled to it by my RQ, I got one issued to me when I was on my CAP course. Thank... goodness... I still managed to break it  but hey, that's a different story 

I think Vern was still the boss there in 2005?


----------



## armyvern

MedTech said:
			
		

> I'll attest to that ;D after 3 years of being told I was not entitled to it by my RQ, I got one issued to me when I was on my CAP course. Thank... goodness... I still managed to break it  but hey, that's a different story
> 
> I think Vern was still the boss there in 2005?



Yes, I was ... and did we exchange your broken one for you?


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Yes, I was ... and did we exchange your broken one for you?



No no, that was later on. Sorry should've clarified  but thank goodness for bosses like you who utilize common sense! ;D

Did I ever mention that Vern is my fabourite Supply Tech?


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## armyvern

MedTech said:
			
		

> Did I ever mention that Vern is my fabourite Supply Tech?



I have NO snowshoes ... try someone else.  >


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## SprCForr

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> ...I did have a complaint about my troops performing "unauthorized issues to unentitled pers" about 3 years ago -- and responded that they should fix the damn scale then; my CoC backed me up as did the BGenSafO... we haven't heard from them since.



Why oh why couldn't you have been posted to Chilliwack in the 70's?  :'(


----------



## armyvern

SprCForr said:
			
		

> Why oh why couldn't you have been posted to Chilliwack in the 70's?  :'(



Because I'd have been between the ages of 1 & 11 in the 70s.  >


----------



## Roy Harding

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I have NO snowshoes ... try someone else.  >



Fuggedaboudit.  I need mine.


----------



## Osotogari

What to bring on BMQ?  Don't bring anything that has any real emotional or economic value.  Instuctors like me can often be insensitive, particularly if you have overly ugly (or hot for that matter) family members.  Rubbing your fellow candidates' faces with your shiny new I-phone or horribly expensive jacket will only result in said items getting mysteriously destroyed or stolen.


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I have NO snowshoes ... try someone else.  >



Ah DOH! I mean... uh.. there is no other supply techs worthy of my love and admiration ;D How bout desert boots?


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## SprCForr

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Because I'd have been between the ages of 1 & 11 in the 70s.  >



Our loss then.  :-[

Can we split this to make a "Rave about your favourite Sup tech" thread?  ;D


----------



## armyvern

SprCForr said:
			
		

> Our loss then.  :-[
> 
> Can we split this to make a "Rave about your favourite Sup tech" thread?  ;D



Just throw it onto the "DS Interview - The Librarian" thread ...  ;D

sucking up won't work though, I can not be bought ... ..  >


----------



## Kat Stevens

Larry Dawson, hands down.


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## armyvern

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Larry Dawson, hands down.



Don't know him, but does he have any fellow relatives of the same last name who are also Suppies?


----------



## Kat Stevens

Dunno, but he was RQMS in 1 CER 81-83ish, and again at a later date when the Q was in disarray, he came back and cleaned house.


----------



## armyvern

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Dunno, but he was RQMS in 1 CER 81-83ish, and again at a later date when the Q was in disarray, he came back and cleaned house.



I know a couple of Supply brothers Dawson whose dad was also a Sup tech. Possible?


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> sucking up won't work though, I can not be bought ... ..  >



really now? not even with assless chap pics?


----------



## armyvern

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Dunno, but he was RQMS in 1 CER 81-83ish, and again at a later date when the Q was in disarray, he came back and cleaned house.



Seems there are those who are so good at cleaning house, they frequently find themselves being called upon to do so again. That's the kind I like too, rather than the kind who mess up the house in the first place.


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## armyvern

Waiting ...

No new PMs for me Mr MedTech, so I can not answer your last ... yet.


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Waiting ...
> 
> No new PMs for me Mr MedTech, so I can not answer your last ... yet.



LOL hahahahahaha... ah... when I get my Ninja, I will get an assless chaps pic just for you Vern. That will be my Christmas present for you next year


----------



## armyvern

MedTech said:
			
		

> LOL hahahahahaha... ah... when I get my Ninja, I will get an assless chaps pic just for you Vern. That will be my Christmas present for you next year



Now you're scaring me. Is it going to be the much done Kawi racing green ... or will you be original about it?


----------



## Kat Stevens

Back in ye goode olde dayes, when 1 CER only had one Fd Sqn, with no SQMS,  us troop storemen dealt directly with the TQ/RQ.  Every morning before roll call, I would poke my head into the Q and see if they required any heavy lifting technicians, AKA young Sappers with strong backs and weak minds.  I would put the word in to the Tp WO, and he would have all the Manuels he needed for as long as required.  Oddly enough, very few of my Sup Reqs ever got fired back in the field.


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## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Now you're scaring me. Is it going to be the much done Kawi racing green ... or will you be original about it?



What?! What do you mean by scaring you? I thought you liked assless chap pics? ;D Hmmm what do you mean by original?  I'm going to be painting my beauty in Lambo Yellow...mmmm yellow... perhaps yellow assless chapy to match?


----------



## armyvern

MedTech said:
			
		

> Hmmm what do you mean by original?  I'm going to be painting my beauty in Lambo Yellow...mmmm yellow... perhaps yellow assless chapy to match?



Not to worry; I'm never scared.

As for lambo yellow chaps -- I double dawg dare you!!  >


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Not to worry; I'm never scared.
> 
> As for lambo yellow chaps -- I double dawg dare you!!  >



LOL then will I get my desert boots? 

Oh screw desert boots  can I get WWB to fit? ;D


----------



## armyvern

MedTech said:
			
		

> Oh screw desert boots  can I get WWB to fit? ;D



Sure, go see your QM.  ;D


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Sure, go see your QM.  ;D



 My QM's a Navy guy  full stop


----------



## armyvern

MedTech said:
			
		

> My QM's a Navy guy  full stop



Yeah ... so? Just ask him what colour he gets when he mixes green and blue and black (if his answer isn't purple  --- he's posing as a Sup tech!!). I double dawg dare you (you _know_ I would ask).  ;D


----------



## medaid

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Yeah ... so? Just ask him what colour he gets when he mixes green and blue and black (if his answer isn't purple  --- he's posing as a Sup tech!!). I double dawg dare you (you _know_ I would ask).  ;D



Muahahahaha! I know _YOU_ would doesn't mean _I_ should! 

Ah, my ill fitting WWBs were from my Army days  I likes them... but they were always a little big... arrrg.


----------



## RTaylor

Back onto the topic of kit, my brother in law took his laptop, call, MP3 player and PSP...he doesn't get it on weekdays but some evenings and on weekends he gets them.

Some other courses get to keep their stuff 24/7, just depends on the instructors from what I hear.

Common sense > All


----------



## LoKe

I stumbled upon this thread and figure my question would fit here, and didn't really warrant its own thread.  So, basically, here it goes:

I chew tobacco.  I realize this isn't an unusual thing for people in the military to do, so this is probably a stupid question:

Would chewing tobacco (or dipping/smokeless tobacco, think Skoal or Cope) be considered "contraband"?  Would I be able to bring a can or a sleeve with me?  Or would I just purchase it at some point when I get there, on my own time?  Would I be able to keep some in my personal kit, stowed away out of sight?  And when would I be able to use it?

In all honesty, the chew isn't really a big deal to me.  I can go weeks/months at a time without using it, but if it's available to me and it doesn't interfere, I'd really like to have some now and then.

So, any other dippers in the CF?


----------



## Lumber

LoKe said:
			
		

> I stumbled upon this thread and figure my question would fit here, and didn't really warrant its own thread.  So, basically, here it goes:
> 
> I chew tobacco.  I realize this isn't an unusual thing for people in the military to do, so this is probably a stupid question:
> 
> Would chewing tobacco (or dipping/smokeless tobacco, think Skoal or Cope) be considered "contraband"?  Would I be able to bring a can or a sleeve with me?  Or would I just purchase it at some point when I get there, on my own time?  Would I be able to keep some in my personal kit, stowed away out of sight?  And when would I be able to use it?
> 
> In all honesty, the chew isn't really a big deal to me.  I can go weeks/months at a time without using it, but if it's available to me and it doesn't interfere, I'd really like to have some now and then.
> 
> So, any other dippers in the CF?



They sell dip at every CANEX I've ever been to. I dabbled in it once, it was alright the first few times but then it lost its magic for me, plus it made it hard to drink beer.

Anyways, from my experience, they had no trouble with us chewing it on break during both IAP and BOTP at the MEGA, and I saw recruits on BMQ chewing and spitting on their breaks too. As for sucking away during a lecture, I wouldn't try it, but I know someone in my sister platoon who had dip in his lip pretty much every class they had.


----------



## LoKe

Thanks for the words!  Knowing it'll be available to me is great news, even if I only get to use it once in a while.  Plus, I can get it anywhere on my weekend leave (when it's available).


----------



## IntlBr

As long as those are the only "bombs" they find in your kit, you'll likely be okay.  I'm pretty sure cigarettes are allowed (ha... since it seems like a ton of the people I've met in the CF smoke)!


----------

