# Can CIC Officers take Army Reserve courses?



## Stormseeker76 (16 Nov 2019)

if there is available space and the CO determines CIC Instructor has the aptitude/physical capability - can they join onto reserve FTX's...specialty courses?


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## dapaterson (16 Nov 2019)

An FTX is not a specialty course.

In theory the CAF uses a train to need philosophy.  Thus, if there is a valid need for a COATS officer to receive some training, it would not be refused.


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## Stormseeker76 (16 Nov 2019)

Thanks, yes, understood. I just sent my VSS and application into the corps CO...wanting to take as many courses as possible - once I get the green light. hope it doesn't take too long!


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## winds_13 (17 Nov 2019)

Stormseeker76, it is certainly limited what sorts of courses that CIC can attend outside of the COATS organization's own courses. What sort of specialty courses are you considering? 

Also, how would your CO determine your aptitude for such training? CIC do not conduct the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) or receive the same basic training as Primary Reserve (PRes) members. How would they determine your physical capability if CIC officers do not have the same fitness or medical standards as PRes soldiers?

If it is training as a soldier that you want, perhaps you should consider joining the PRes instead.


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## brihard (17 Nov 2019)

After 14 years in the PRes, including some time working with the cadets, I never heard of it happening. COATS runs all the courses its members need. If you think you can join as CIC and go out and do infantry or combat engineer stuff, not a damned chance. If you want to do that, join the PRes. It can be tons of fun.


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## Kilted (17 Nov 2019)

I know a few years ago we were going to look into putting some of the local CIC officers on my units Basic Winter Warfare course, because they were under the impression that it would qualify them to the same level as whatever the CIC version of the course is (which is apparently hard to get on). In the end the course was already overloaded with troops, so that idea died there.


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## Navy_Pete (17 Nov 2019)

Kilted said:
			
		

> I know a few years ago we were going to look into putting some of the local CIC officers on my units Basic Winter Warfare course, because they were under the impression that it would qualify them to the same level as whatever the CIC version of the course is (which is apparently hard to get on). In the end the course was already overloaded with troops, so that idea died there.



Why would CIC need a winter warfare course? They only do a small portion of any of that, and most aren't even weapons qualified (or need to be). I highly doubt a comparison of the QSPs would have shown the CIC course was equivalent to the BWW.

No knocking on Cadets; I think it's a great program with some really great people involved, and is excellent for the kids. At the end of the day though, it's a much better funded version of Scouts or Guides with a military flavour, not an actual part of the military.


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## Halifax Tar (17 Nov 2019)

Jeez they way you guys are explaining the selection and training of CIC officers almost makes its seem like they aren't really in the forces.


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## Kilted (17 Nov 2019)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Why would CIC need a winter warfare course? They only do a small portion of any of that, and most aren't even weapons qualified (or need to be). I highly doubt a comparison of the QSPs would have shown the CIC course was equivalent to the BWW.
> 
> No knocking on Cadets; I think it's a great program with some really great people involved, and is excellent for the kids. At the end of the day though, it's a much better funded version of Scouts or Guides with a military flavour, not an actual part of the military.




They needed a winter course so they could take the cadets on winter ex, no one had the course, so they couldn't take the cadets out.


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## Navy_Pete (17 Nov 2019)

Kilted said:
			
		

> They needed a winter course so they could take the cadets on winter ex, no one had the course, so they couldn't take the cadets out.



That's a simple safety course, and not really a good reason to send people on a combat course they aren't qualified for in the first place. Obviously not an issue in the Navy (we just turn on the heat), but from what I understand from my buddies, that can be a grueling one, but they all learned a tonne when they went up north and worked with the Rangers.


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## brihard (17 Nov 2019)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> That's a simple safety course, and not really a good reason to send people on a combat course they aren't qualified for in the first place. Obviously not an issue in the Navy (we just turn on the heat), but from what I understand from my buddies, that can be a grueling one, but they all learned a tonne when they went up north and worked with the Rangers.



I suspect you’re thinking of Arctic Operations Advisor. Basic Winter Warfare is just a week of how to eat, sleep, and move in the field. It can be done part time on evenings with a confirmatory weekend exercise.


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## Blackadder1916 (17 Nov 2019)

For reference

http://www.2672paratus.ca/documents/CWICPrecis2007.pdf


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## Kilted (17 Nov 2019)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> That's a simple safety course, and not really a good reason to send people on a combat course they aren't qualified for in the first place. Obviously not an issue in the Navy (we just turn on the heat), but from what I understand from my buddies, that can be a grueling one, but they all learned a tonne when they went up north and worked with the Rangers.



I wouldn't really call it a combat course, with the exception of lectures on winter camouflage and winter defensives there is almost no tactical content. It is just simply ment to teach you how to live in the winter.


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## Northalbertan (1 Mar 2021)

The CIC course is called Cold Weather Leader.  Nothing tactical in it but it does teach how to survive and work in a cold weather environment.  Toboggans, arctic tents, improvised shelters.  I've been DS on the course several times.  The CIC officers can work in very cold Temps, it hit -40 to -45 for almost the entire duration of the course the last two times I worked on it. The cadets have to cease training at -20C.  Same drills.  Tent up, tent down, pack up, move to next location, tent up, tent down...build lean-to, spend a night in it.  The usual.


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