# Turks & Caicos to Canada? (merged)



## Enzo (27 Jan 2004)

The idea of the Turks and Caicos becoming a territory of Canada is making the rounds again. I‘m uncertain as to how serious this is, but I‘d like to know what everyone thinks about such an action.

Cheers...


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Jan 2004)

Hmmm if its true it would make a great southern naval base for us.


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## Enzo (27 Jan 2004)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/01/19/pf-317480.html 

It‘s a topic which is popping up quite a bit again.


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## Danjanou (27 Jan 2004)

Well this time we‘re asking them. In the 1970‘s they asked us and Trudeau said no. BTW the first PM to come up with the idea was Bordon in 1915 I think.

They really don‘t need us as badly as we do them now. unlike the 1970‘s they have a thriving tourist economy and off shore banking.

I doubt it will happen, too bad as it‘s a nice place. the wife and I were there last Feb. Beautiful, friendly people, but as pricey as the Caymans.


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## jimbunting (30 Jan 2004)

In my opinion, this scheme would be a win-win for both sides. Canada would gain a tropical province, with open access to a great winter climate, and the Turks and Caicos would gain access to Canadian education, job training and economic support.

Someone mentioned that the T&C have a number of "offshore banking" operations there. I can assure you that these do NOT contibute much if anything to the people, only to the few who get a local job there. The vast majority of the jobs created are going to foreigners, who are there on work permits, for a period of two to three years.

The T&C do not have any of the following public services...........NO health care plan, no post secondary education, or skilled jobs training, no treatment programs for aids/hiv, no drug treatment programs, no care centres for burns or major trauma, no help for the blind. Any citizen of the T&C who needs such services has to go outside the country, at their own expense, or simply suffer at home. They also are in need of water purification and de-salination plants, school modernisation, road improvemts, sewage teatment facilities, and electric generation plants that do NOT burn coal to produce power.

All of the above could be accomplished with resultant economic benefits, if the T&C became a Canadian province or territory. Operating on the Canadian dollar, this new province would result in Canadians being able to go, with out Customs or Immigration inspection, to the Carribbean, and spend their money at no discount, whatsoever. Caandian investors would be able to invest in the T&C as if they were building a project in Canada.

The benefit for the people of the T&C? Better education, better health care, improved futures for their kids and an assured source of capital to make theirs the best islands chain in the whole Carribbean Sea.

I strongly support this concept.

Jim Bunting. Toronto.


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## Pikache (7 Feb 2004)

http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=AA780476-1883-43C8-A831-DBABCBEDC701 

Turks and Caicos: a Canadian island paradise?

Danielle Smith  
Calgary Herald 


Saturday, February 07, 2004
ADVERTISEMENT 



Most self-respecting countries have a tropical island paradise to call their own. France has Martinique, the Dutch have Aruba, the U.S. has the Virgin Islands and New Zealand has the Cook Islands. Canada has a host of Arctic territories too cold even to visit in the summer.

But among the extensive list of dependencies associated with the United Kingdom, there is a tiny chain of islands known as the Turks and Caicos, which is about to become of particular interest to Canadians.

Last season, Global Sunday aired a show about Canada‘s aborted attempt at uniting with this tiny chain of islands back in 1987. Back then, two T&C businessmen came to Ottawa to see whether there was any appetite to discuss forging closer economic and political ties. Ottawa took it seriously enough to produce a white paper on the proposal, but ultimately rejected the concept. 

Although the report raised many areas of potential conflict -- the island‘s status as a tax haven, import tariffs, Haitian illegal immigrants, and the need for economic aid -- the biggest barrier seemed to be a fear among officials that Canada would appear neo-colonialist. The report concluded the matter should be left in the hands of the islanders -- Canada would consider talks only if they approached us, and if Britain agreed to let them go -- and since there was such obvious goodwill toward Canada among islanders, we should give them development assistance anyway. How Canadian.

The exercise wasn‘t a total bust, however. It spurred a massive interest in the island on the part of Canadians. Not only do 16,000 Canadians a year trek to the island for a winter getaway, 30 per cent of the hotels and resorts there are owned by Canadians. The political ties may have fallen flat, but the economic and cultural ties have flourished.

Not surprisingly, after airing the show in the spring, Global Sunday was inundated with calls and e-mails from Canadians who were outraged the Mulroney government had let the deal fall through. So, we decided to conduct our own fact-finding mission to see whether islanders felt the same way, and travelled down to the Turks and Caicos in January. (I know what you‘re thinking: Investigative journalism can be ****.)

Today, the island boasts the third fastest growing economy in the region, it runs a balanced operating budget, and financially, it is self-sufficient. Indeed, the T&C performs so well relative to its Caribbean neighbours that Britain provides it with not a shilling in financial support.

The dissatisfaction with Britain on the islands is palpable. Governor James Poston, who declined an on-camera interview, assured us that Canada would not create an international incident if it pursued closer ties with the T&C. In fact, it‘s something islanders want.

In May, the islands elected a chief minister, Michael Misick, on a platform of change. No wonder. Considering the absence of support, the British governor exerts a surprising degree of control over island affairs. The governor has the power to veto or introduce legislation, he makes key appointments to the public service (including the commissioner who oversees internal security), and he even chairs the local government‘s executive meetings. Imagine our Governor General calling Paul Martin‘s cabinet to order. To add insult, the island must pay for the lion‘s share of the governor‘s office out of internally generated revenues. 

Misick believes his people are ready for something new. He wants to see the T&C develop a "free association" with a North American partner, either the United States or Canada. Under this arrangement, the island would become responsible for all internal matters and thus gain full autonomy over making laws that affect its citizens. Areas where Britain has sole authority -- defence, security, trade and other international matters -- would be decided collaboratively, with input from the island government. 

As for financial support, the T&C‘s needs are modest. They need infrastructure grants to build a $25-million hospital, so they no longer have to fly patients to the U.S. for treatment. They need $150 million to expand the highway and build bridges linking the six largest islands together. They also need money to upgrade their deep-sea port to facilitate greater trade. A couple hundred million all told -- a rounding error in the Canadian federal budget.

So politically and economically, it‘s doable. But do the advantages outweigh the risks? More on that, next week.

dsmith@theherald.canwest.com

More on this topic can be heard on Global Sunday, hosted by Danielle Smith, Sunday at 6:30 p.m.

© Copyright  2004 Calgary Herald


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## nbk (7 Feb 2004)

If the islanders want us, how can we not accept?

I doubt it would be a huge strain on this nation to have a wee little colony. Its more of a novel thing for us really...a little vacation island of our own.

Hey I could move down there, get out of the snow, and I would not even have to change citizenship...

If any country has to become colonial...why not it be a great and respected country like Canada?


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## mattoigta (7 Feb 2004)

What could it give back to Canada?


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## Pikache (7 Feb 2004)

A viable tourism economy?


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## mattoigta (7 Feb 2004)

figured as much


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## onecat (7 Feb 2004)

"What could it give back to Canada?"

"A viable tourism economy?"

Scarlino, what‘s wrong with that.  Canadians spends a lot of money to get on the snow each year, and right now that money leaves the country.  Having the Turks and Caicos included in Canada would keep that money in country.  I think its a great idea.  I‘ld be the first to sign for a posting there.


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## Enzo (8 Feb 2004)

****ed right Radio   

I‘ve lived in the Caribbean off and on for years, working, playing etc... If they‘re for it, why not? So we have another province added to the roster, I‘d almost consider a naval position.


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## mattoigta (8 Feb 2004)

No i didn‘t mean "figured as much" in a negative way, but when i originally asked i ignored the "tourism" answer cos i figured it was obvious - i was thinking more on the lines of natural resources, fishing, etc


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## casing (10 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Danjanou:
> [qb] Well this time we‘re asking them. [/qb]


Actually, I believe that the T&C officials are approaching Canada this time (not 100% certain, I‘ll try to find some proof).  The reason for this is that the last time when Canada said no, a stipulation was made that the idea would not be considered again unless Turks & Caicos approached Canada with the prospect, that the T&C citizens were in favour of such action, and that the UK is willing to release their association with the T&C.  Also, I think that the main reason for the refusal in the ‘80s was that such action would have indeed seemed too imperialistic for the simple reason that the T&C were not doing at all well economically. This time around is a much different situation.  T&C‘s economy is booming.  Islanders, in general, want an association with Canada.  The T&C government wants more autonomy than they currently experience as the association with the UK gives the UK Governor an extraordinary amount of influence in national decisions. Also, the UK is willing to let the T&C go. There are many benefits to both nations pending such an association and these have been mentioned in this thread already.  One thing to note, though, is that the T&C would not become a province or territory of Canada.  Rather the association would still be extremely autonomous.  

I‘ll see if I can dig up some actual facts to support these words.  Feel free to set me straight.


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## jimbunting (12 Feb 2004)

I‘d just remind everyone that Newfoundland voted to join Canada in 1949. Before that time, Newfoundland, like the Turks and Caicos, was British Crown Colony, with a British Colonial Govenor.

My point? If Newfoundland could VOTE to become a Canadian Province, why not the T&C?

Jim Bunting. toronto.


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## Phillman (13 Feb 2004)

Hmm, I guess its time to start drafting that memo for transfer to CFB T&C.


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## RCD (13 Feb 2004)

This would be nice place to rest my weary bones after bounce around in them der tanks we had.


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## CougarKing (2 Jul 2013)

Aren't most of Goldring's arguments favouring annexation of the Turks and Caicos Islands (TCI) actually applicable to all of the UK's remaining territories in the Caribbean, from Bermuda to the British Virgin Islands?

National Post link



> *‘It’s a whole new world’: Could Turks and Caicos be like a tiny Nunavut or Canada’s 11th province?*
> 
> In 1917, during a visit to the Caribbean, Prime Minister Robert Borden spotted the British Overseas Territory of Turks and Caicos Islands and thought that the tropical archipelago was just the place to install Canada’s next province.  The idea was quickly rebuffed by British leadership, who were admittedly preoccupied with the First World War, but nearly one hundred years later the dream of a Canadian flag flying in the Caribbean lives on. Last Wednesday, *Edmonton East MP Peter Goldring, the loudest cheerleader for Turks and Caicos annexation, met with the country’s premier, Rufus Ewing, in a reception at Toronto’s Westin Harbour Castle hotel. The Post called Mr. Goldring on Friday to catch up on the possibility of Canada adopting 600 square kilometers of island paradise as its 11th province.*
> 
> ...


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## PAdm (2 Jul 2013)

Canadians are doing well investing in Cuba. It is a interesting prospect. And I have never forgiven PM Mulroney for letting this go the first time around. Hot weather with the dollar at par.   :nod:


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## UnwiseCritic (2 Jul 2013)

Yes a very interesting prospect indeed. If only I had the cash to scoop up some property. But I don't think a 4th times the charm.


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## cupper (2 Jul 2013)

Awww, Come On. Lets think big. REAL BIG. UNITED STATES BIG.


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## Brad Sallows (2 Jul 2013)

Another money sink.  Pursue freer trade, by all means, but don't buy the concession.


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## jollyjacktar (2 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> Canadians are doing well investing in Cuba. It is a interesting prospect. And I have never forgiven PM Mulroney for letting this go the first time around. Hot weather with the dollar at par.   :nod:


And of course there'd be a requirement for sovereignty patrols in the area.   ;D


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## PAdm (3 Jul 2013)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> And of course there'd be a requirement for sovereignty patrols in the area.   ;D



CFS T&C!!!
CFRC T&C!!!

Loving the idea more and more. Still irritated Bermuda closed as I joined. I am willing to wear socks up to my knees go this opportunity.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> CFS T&C!!!
> CFRC T&C!!!
> 
> Loving the idea more and more. Still irritated Bermuda closed as I joined. I am willing to wear socks up to my knees go this opportunity.




One of the more compelling reasons for closing CFS Bermuda was that, amongst all the CFSRS stations (Masset, Inuvik, Alert, Gander, Leitrim and Bermuda, plus a few detachments), Bermuda had the lowest morale. Everyone loved to visit but most people would much rather live and work elsewhere.


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## dimsum (3 Jul 2013)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> One of the more compelling reasons for closing CFS Bermuda was that, amongst all the CFSRS stations (Masset, Inuvik, Alert, Gander, Leitrim and Bermuda, plus a few detachments), Bermuda had the lowest morale. Everyone loved to visit but most people would much rather live and work elsewhere.



Yikes.  If Inuvik is better than somewhere, how bad is the place (to work/live)?!


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## Edward Campbell (3 Jul 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Yikes.  If Inuvik is better than somewhere, how bad is the place (to work/live)?!




There were a lot of issues ~ some quality of work, other quality of life. One of the issues was jobs for dependents, for example; another was "things to do" in one's off duty time. Many people were sad to see Inuvik close and Masset and Gander _drop_ (in strength) to detachment status (with many tasks done, remotely, from Leitrim) but it made good economic and operational sense.


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## PAdm (3 Jul 2013)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> One of the more compelling reasons for closing CFS Bermuda was that, amongst all the CFSRS stations (Masset, Inuvik, Alert, Gander, Leitrim and Bermuda, plus a few detachments), Bermuda had the lowest morale. Everyone loved to visit but most people would much rather live and work elsewhere.



I am officially covering my ears, yelling "I can't hear you", and stamping my feet. Do not let your facts eat into my fantasy.    I am happy to do the theatre activation!


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## Edward Campbell (3 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> I am officially covering my ears, yelling "I can't hear you", and stamping my feet. Do not let your facts eat into my fantasy.    I am happy to do the theatre activation!










You are an official Canadian military strategist: unencumbered by all those inconvenient things like facts!


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## Old Sweat (3 Jul 2013)

Before we get all worked up about this, a bit of research is in order. While this wikipedia article is quite out of date, other than a great climate and terrific scenery/beaches, the British colony may not be all that we wish. Much of the economy is based on being an off shore financial haven, which presumably would disappear once the prospect of coming under Canadian law loomed on the horizon. The workforce is mainly unskilled and ill-educated, even if that is not necessarily their fault. And tourism, which is quite valuable, might take a hit once visitors began to pay the HST and other Canadian taxes on accommodation, meals and booze.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands

Maybe it's just better to dream the impossible dream.


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## dapaterson (3 Jul 2013)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Before we get all worked up about this, a bit of research is in order. While this wikipedia article is quite out of date, other than a great climate and terrific scenery/beaches, the British colony may not be all that we wish. Much of the economy is based on being an off shore financial haven, which presumably would disappear once the prospect of coming under Canadian law loomed on the horizon. The workforce is mainly unskilled and ill-educated, even if that is not necessarily their fault. And tourism, which is quite valuable, might take a hit once visitors began to pay the HST and other Canadian taxes on accommodation, meals and booze.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands
> 
> Maybe it's just better to dream the impossible dream.



So, it's an island full of financial malfeasance with an unskilled and ill-educated workforce.

You're right.  Montreal doesn't need the competition.


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## George Wallace (3 Jul 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, it's an island full of financial malfeasance with an unskilled and ill-educated workforce.
> 
> You're right.  Montreal doesn't need the competition.



Perfect place to  build a "Teaching University" and hire locals to fill the classrooms of the Teachers in training.  

Adds a new category/meaning to "Professional Student".    ;D


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## PAdm (3 Jul 2013)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Before we get all worked up about this, a bit of research is in order. While this wikipedia article is quite out of date, other than a great climate and terrific scenery/beaches, the British colony may not be all that we wish. Much of the economy is based on being an off shore financial haven, which presumably would disappear once the prospect of coming under Canadian law loomed on the horizon. The workforce is mainly unskilled and ill-educated, even if that is not necessarily their fault. And tourism, which is quite valuable, might take a hit once visitors began to pay the HST and other Canadian taxes on accommodation, meals and booze.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands
> 
> Maybe it's just better to dream the impossible dream.



I am packing to move to Winnipeg on posting. Come January, I will be quite happy to dream the impossible dream.....


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## Edward Campbell (3 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> I am packing to move to Winnipeg on posting. Come January, I will be quite happy to dream the impossible dream.....




Which makes this understandable:

     





			
				PAdm said:
			
		

> I am officially covering my ears, yelling "I can't hear you", and stamping my feet. Do not let your facts eat into my fantasy.    I am happy to do the theatre activation!



I should not have awarded you an "attaboy."


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## PAdm (3 Jul 2013)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I should not have awarded you an "attaboy."



But, but, but...it's cold here and warm there..... :'(


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## a_majoor (4 Jul 2013)

If we want a warm, island province with a skilled workforce and little draw on the Canadian taxpayer, then we might consider annexing Australia... ;D

Makes about as much sense as the Turks and Calcos


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## UnwiseCritic (4 Jul 2013)

Since when did the things we do have to make sense? If that was the case there'd be a lot of bored higher ups.


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## dimsum (4 Jul 2013)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> If we want a warm, island province with a skilled workforce and little draw on the Canadian taxpayer, then we might consider annexing Australia... ;D



We don't even need to annex it.  Just let them continue thinking that all of Canada looks like Vancouver/Banff/Jasper/Quebec City and they'll beg to join us!  Their TV breakfast shows are already doing it this week and making me homesick!    :-[


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## CougarKing (27 May 2014)

In the news again...  ;D

#11th province on Twitter

CBC



> *Turks and Caicos visit leads to talk of annexation ... again*
> 
> Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall invites tropical British territory to become part of province
> 
> ...


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## MilEME09 (27 May 2014)

I for one agree we should Annex them, then I could get a class B contract for 3 years there  >


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## PMedMoe (27 May 2014)

Baird says no to annexing Turks and Caicos as new province or territory

.....

The Conservative government, however, was firmly rejecting any suggestion of welcoming Turks and Caicos into the Canadian fold. “We’re not in the business of annexing islands in the Caribbean to be part of Canada. So that’s not something that we’re exploring. We’re not looking at any sort of formal association with the islands,” Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said.

.....

More at link

Bummer.


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## The Bread Guy (27 May 2014)

Reminding us of some reality (highlights mine) ....


			
				Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Before we get all worked up about this, a bit of research is in order. While this wikipedia article is quite out of date, other than a great climate and terrific scenery/beaches, the British colony may not be all that we wish. *Much of the economy is based on being an off shore financial haven, which presumably would disappear once the prospect of coming under Canadian law loomed on the horizon*. The workforce is mainly unskilled and ill-educated, even if that is not necessarily their fault. And *tourism, which is quite valuable, might take a hit once visitors began to pay the HST and other Canadian taxes on accommodation, meals and booze*.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands
> 
> Maybe it's just better to dream the impossible dream.


Or make 'em "Canada's Hong Kong"!  



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Baird says no to annexing Turks and Caicos as new province or territory
> 
> .....
> 
> ...


Bummer, indeed ....


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## Occam (27 May 2014)

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/the-gargoyle-canadian-invasion-of-turks-and-caicos-unlikely



> If anyone appeared to be trying to close the door, it was Baird. After delivering a prepared statement promising Canada’s support for Ukraine’s newly elected government, the foreign affairs minister was hit with not one but several questions about the Turks and Caicos.
> 
> “This is not something we’re exploring,” he said, his expression clearly conveying that he thought the suggestion borderline silly.



That's odd, I make that same expression when the thought crosses my mind of re-electing these buffoons.


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## cupper (27 May 2014)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Baird says no to annexing Turks and Caicos as new province or territory



I notice that he didn't say anything about not making them colonies.  >


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## Brad Sallows (27 May 2014)

A merged thread...how appropriate.

Let's just stick to what Premier Ewing came here to pursue...liberalized movement of goods and people.


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## Biggoals2bdone (12 Jun 2014)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> There were a lot of issues ~ some quality of work, other quality of life. One of the issues was jobs for dependents, for example; another was "things to do" in one's off duty time. Many people were sad to see Inuvik close and Masset and Gander _drop_ (in strength) to detachment status (with many tasks done, remotely, from Leitrim) but it made good economic and operational sense.



And that's different from pretty much HALF the current postings in Canada how??  Most postings now have dismal opportunities for jobs for spouses/dependents (even with post-secondary schooling) and a lot aren't much better when it comes to leisure...yet we aren't shutting any of those down...

If a base or anything opened up in T&C, after it became a province, odds are many typical Canadian installations would be opened there, like a cineplex, gas stations, malls, roads, hospital, etc...aka it would be Canadianized, which is completely different than when we had installations in other countries.


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## George Wallace (12 Jun 2014)

With the number of Resorts on those Islands, I am sure that there really are no shortages of jobs for qualified people.  I imagine such an annexation would also kick start a large number of construction of infrastructure and other amenities.

This debate has many pros and cons, and discussions over many decades.


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## a_majoor (12 Jun 2014)

Anyone stop to think that if the Turks and Caicos were part of Canada, we might a also be on the hook to defend them from "counter annexation" much the way the Thatcher government launched and expedition to liberate the Falkland Islands...


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jun 2014)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Anyone stop to think that if the Turks and Caicos were part of Canada, we might a also be on the hook to defend them from "counter annexation" much the way the Thatcher government launched and expedition to liberate the Falkland Islands...


I'll bite - what neighbours have been saying "hey, they're really ours, dagnabit"?


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## CougarKing (12 Jun 2014)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Anyone stop to think that if the Turks and Caicos were part of Canada, we might a also be on the hook to defend them from "counter annexation" much the way the Thatcher government launched and expedition to liberate the Falkland Islands...



If it ever came to annexation, wouldn't the UK be complicit in it though? Wasn't that what happened when Canada inherited the Arctic Archipelago from the UK? London was also complicit in allowing Newfoundland to join Canada in 1949.

The TCI may be more one of a number of British Overseas Territories in the Caribbean, but would the average Briton really on the street really care what happens to them? Especially if a fellow Commonwealth Dominion (Canada) is the one annexing them?

The TCI are not the Falklands.


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## a_majoor (13 Jun 2014)

I wasn't talking about the UK trying to annex them back from us, but rather unfriendly neighbours in the local neighbourhood, much like Argentina tried to annex the Falklands back in the day.


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## Ostrozac (13 Jun 2014)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> I wasn't talking about the UK trying to annex them back from us, but rather unfriendly neighbours in the local neighbourhood, much like Argentina tried to annex the Falklands back in the day.



Actual military threats from DR, Haiti, Cuba and the Bahamas are the least of our worries. And would be easy to solve -- didn't we expand NORAD to include martime threats a few years ago? Couldn't we expect the USA to have our back militarily, at least on air and sea?

We should really be asking if CBSA, DFO, the RCMP and the Canadian Coast Guard are prepared to operate in the Caribbean -- particularly with respect to drugs and refugee claimants coming from the neighbouring countries. I suspect that all four agencies are not.


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jun 2014)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> I wasn't talking about the UK trying to annex them back from us, but rather unfriendly neighbours in the local neighbourhood, much like Argentina tried to annex the Falklands back in the day.


Two words, from _"Yes, Minister"_ - "goodwill visit"  ;D

Seriously, what neighbours covet T&C now?


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