# IAP/BOTC



## jwsteele (27 Jun 2005)

Ok...I know the RMC students complete their basic training at the college...but when do Civi U ROTP students complete their training.  If IAP/BOTC is a 14 week course and I'm only training for 8 weeks of the summer, when do I make up the other 6.  I ask because I was told that next summer is second language training.  It seems odd to delay completion of basic training for almost two years.  How do they squeeze in CAP and Phase 3 and 4?  Do I do a whole bunch of training after I graduate or do they keep me for the whole summer in the following years?


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## kincanucks (27 Jun 2005)

Civilian university Candidates:

First summer - IAP
Second summer - BOTP
Third Summer - Occupation Training
Fourth summer - SLT


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## chipdudeman (27 Jun 2005)

Add to the last post is that the end of summers after IAP/ BOTP are filled in with SLT


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## McInnes (28 Jun 2005)

Whats the summer training schedule for RMC student's? Or is it the same as Civ-U.


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## jwsteele (28 Jun 2005)

I understand that it's the same as Civi-U, but because of their location and academic envrionment, they are able to carry out some training during the school year that Civi-U students cannot.  I hear RMC students recieve their commission upon graduation whereas Civi-U students have a bunch of training post-graduation to complete and recieve thier commission later.  It's all very weird and the routine appears to change from year to year because I've had people tell me thousands of things...most of them in contradiction to another.  ROTP is much more complicated than it appears on paper.  Just gotta go with the flow and do what they tell me I guess.


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## kincanucks (28 Jun 2005)

Aquilus said:
			
		

> Whats the summer training schedule for RMC student's? Or is it the same as Civ-U.



RMC:

First summer - IAP
Second summer - MOC Training
Third summer - SLT
Fourth summer - MOC Training


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## Big Foot (28 Jun 2005)

kincanucks, I'm going to have to correct you here. The training schedule you listed above applies to RMC students, too. This is my second summer and I just completed BOTP and am now doing SLT. I'm not too sure when this change happened, but it seems its now the standard for all RMC people. I start my MOC training next summer in Gagetown whereas in previous years, i would have started it this year.


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## DVessey (28 Jun 2005)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> kincanucks, I'm going to have to correct you here. The training schedule you listed above applies to RMC students, too. This is my second summer and I just completed BOTP and am now doing SLT. I'm not too sure when this change happened, but it seems its now the standard for all RMC people. I start my MOC training next summer in Gagetown whereas in previous years, i would have started it this year.



Yeah, ditto. Right now, in terms of summer training the only difference WRT RMC people was that we didn't have to do week 0 of BOTP.


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## kincanucks (28 Jun 2005)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> kincanucks, I'm going to have to correct you here. The training schedule you listed above applies to RMC students, too. This is my second summer and I just completed BOTP and am now doing SLT. I'm not too sure when this change happened, but it seems its now the standard for all RMC people. I start my MOC training next summer in Gagetown whereas in previous years, i would have started it this year.



Well don't I feel better as I have been corrected.   The information that I have provided is straight from the Enhanced Leadership Model Training Schedule which is provided by CFRG HQ and is what is suppose to happen to each of the three different types of ROTP candidates.   Now you use the word "I".   Are you using that word to say that this is what is happening in your case or are you using to say that this is what is happening to everyone that is in RMC and joined at the same time as you?   By the way there are two training schedules above your post.


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## McInnes (29 Jun 2005)

I was under the impression that the rest of BOTC that wasn't to be completed during the first year was to be covered throughout the year at RMC. Is this not the case at all anymore? Or was it ever?


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## kincanucks (29 Jun 2005)

Attached is the ELM TRAINING PLAN.  This is what is suppose to happen for all three types of ROTP Candidates.  Keep in mind that any part of this can and will be changed for a variety of reasons such as training resources availability or student load, etc.


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## kincanucks (29 Jun 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> kincanuks, if you take french courses on your own time during the year while you are at university (from the perspective of a civvie U candidate) and you prove an acceptable competance in your second language, are you still then required to attend SLT, or can that summer be filled with another course/tasking/OJT?



Before you begin your SLT you will be tested and place in the applicable level.  However, to be exempt from SLT you would have to be deemed fully bilingual.


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## Big Foot (29 Jun 2005)

kincanucks, the split IAP/BOTP is not just in my case. Every other first year from RMC was at the Mega this summer to complete BOTP. It seems that this is now the new standard, regardless of what the training schedules you have say. The OCdts who just completed prep year are simply doing IAP at the moment and will be doing BOTP next summer, the same as the new intake of senior applicants for RMC. What prompted this change, I don't know, but it seems thats just the way it is. I don't mean to correct you personally but as this site prides itself on up to date information, what better source that the Mega? I don't know when/if the training will move back in line with the papers available to the recruiting personnel, but for the time being, IAP/BOTP is split between 2 summers.


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## jwsteele (29 Jun 2005)

Not to be a pain in the ass...but when does CAP happen?  The recruiting website says the schedule for combat arms officers is:
IAP/BOTC
CAP
Phase III MOC
Phase IV MOC
There is no mention of CAP training for ROTP though.


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## Big Foot (29 Jun 2005)

You do CAP following your second year, that being your third summer.


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## hoote (29 Jun 2005)

Thanks so much kincanuck!  
  
How are all those steps (BOTC, SLT, CAP, Phase 3 and 4) spread out for DEO candidates?

Are they run consecutively or are there (a month..6 months..year?) in between.  I am not trying to be a pain but I have a family of five I support and planning for when and for how long I will be away from home is very important.


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## kincanucks (29 Jun 2005)

hoote said:
			
		

> Thanks so much kincanuck!
> 
> How are all those steps (BOTC, SLT, CAP, Phase 3 and 4) spread out for DEO candidates?
> 
> Are they run consecutively or are there (a month..6 months..year?) in between.   I am not trying to be a pain but I have a family of five I support and planning for when and for how long I will be away from home is very important.



IAP/BOTP - 14 weeks than SLT up to 33 weeks then your Phases.  DEO training after IAP/BOTP and SLT can vary but is suppose to happen as soon as possible afterwards.  I did BOTC Sept to Dec then SLT from Jan to Jun then I had to wait six months for occupation training so who knows because there is really no set plan on it is suppose to happen.


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## Glorified Ape (2 Sep 2005)

jwsteele said:
			
		

> I understand that it's the same as Civi-U, but because of their location and academic envrionment, they are able to carry out some training during the school year that Civi-U students cannot.   I hear RMC students recieve their commission upon graduation whereas Civi-U students have a bunch of training post-graduation to complete and recieve thier commission later.



That depends on whether you're finished BOTC by the time you graduate (you likely should be). All that's necessary for a commission is IAP (unless you get a bypass due to past training), BOTC, and a degree. I've got IAP/BOTC and a bit of SLT and I should be getting my commission after I graduate, before I go off to CAP. 

Kinkanucks - just a question in case you may know - do you know what the start dates are for next summer's CAP course?


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## kincanucks (2 Sep 2005)

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> That depends on whether you're finished BOTC by the time you graduate (you likely should be). All that's necessary for a commission is IAP (unless you get a bypass due to past training), BOTC, and a degree. I've got IAP/BOTC and a bit of SLT and I should be getting my commission after I graduate, before I go off to CAP.
> 
> Kinkanucks - just a question in case you may know - do you know what the start dates are for next summer's CAP course?



Sorry no but you might want to check the training websites in Gagetown for more info.


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## Glorified Ape (8 Sep 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Sorry no but you might want to check the training websites in Gagetown for more info.



Yeah, probably shoulda done that. Thanks.


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## bgc_fan (16 Sep 2005)

To add my 2 cents, part of it is timing since it seems that a lot of Phase 3 or Phase 4 courses may only run once a year depending on your trade. For example, as an engineering candidate, I started BOTC in Sept-Dec. and then SLT until May, CAP from May to Aug. and now am doing OJT while I wait for Phase 3 which is only offered in May, meaning I finish training in Apr 2007. Likewise, I have an infantry friend who did Phase 3 in the summer, but has to wait for Phase 4 in May 2006. 

On the other hand, if I got exempted from SLT I could have ran through CAP from Jan-May, Phase 3 last summer and doing Phase 4 now, meaning I would finish in Apr 2006.



			
				hoote said:
			
		

> Thanks so much kincanuck!
> 
> How are all those steps (BOTC, SLT, CAP, Phase 3 and 4) spread out for DEO candidates?
> 
> Are they run consecutively or are there (a month..6 months..year?) in between.  I am not trying to be a pain but I have a family of five I support and planning for when and for how long I will be away from home is very important.


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## 23353 (27 Oct 2005)

Some clarification on summer training for RMC cadets...

Previously RMC cadets did IAP/BOTP in one summer and in both cases the two courses were slimmed down by a couple of weeks. RMC cadets were not taught the part of the course known as Annex G, basically mess diners and other random stuff. Instead they learned this stuff over their FYOP period and the rest of the academic year at RMC.

Civi-U guys would do IAP, and then BOTP/SLT the summer afterwards. 

Apparently Borden (I believe that they are in charge of the training system) wanted to change this so that a more standardized approach was taken to IAP/BOTP. As of the summer of 2004 the training system was changed to this.

IMHO this is both good and bad. While it makes sense for students who are not yet bilingual, the bilingual ones seem to have a "wasted" summer on random OJTs. More importantly they aren't introduced to Gagetown properly i.e. A pacestick upside the head  

IAP/BOTP is fairly useless anyway. The leadership 'tests' are fairly weak in my opinion, and anyone in the army will have much harder leadership obstacles to overcome and prove themselves. The only thing I can take from IAP/BOTP is drill and the orders format, maybe how to get dressed.

Thats all I've got...

Oh and the summer serial of CAP should start around the end of May or beginning of June. Have fun on that one!


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## bbbb (16 Mar 2006)

Splitting Basic over two summers was a strange thing to do. It means that those people will have to wait until they finish at least their 2nd year before doing SLT or phase 2.


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## Ranger Al (2 May 2006)

I was told today by an OCdt that finished IAP/BOTP in April that there are plans to change the program for next summer. Maybe all of us enrolled for IAP this summer and BOTP next summer are meant to partake in this new program during BOTP?? Just a thought.

-Al


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## andpro (27 May 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Civilian university Candidates:
> 
> First summer - IAP
> Second summer - BOTP
> ...



    I have been accepted into ROTP at a civilian university, and have not yet received any dates for my IAP so I am assuming that I will be one of the people who wait for the next year. As I a taking my university in french immersion and also plan to minor in french, will I be required to take second language training If I pass a test? If so would I have to do a military test or would a bilingualism test from my university count?


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## Infanteer (27 May 2006)

You'll have a chance to challenge the Public Service Test during your stay in St Jean.  If you achieve a certain level of proficiency (dependent on your trade, but usually BAB), you will skip Second Language Training.


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## AmphibousAssult (6 Jun 2006)

Quick Question here guys, how does IAP/BOTC compare to BMQ/SQ for non-coms. (just trying to reakte what im going to be doing to what I've already done.) thanks.


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## kincanucks (6 Jun 2006)

_reakte_ 

What?


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## Cress (6 Jun 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _reakte_
> 
> What?



He meant "relate". Just had a little typing problem.


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## Infanteer (6 Jun 2006)

Marksman said:
			
		

> Quick Question here guys, how does IAP/BOTC compare to BMQ/SQ for non-coms. (just trying to reakte what im going to be doing to what I've already done.) thanks.



On IAP/BOTC there is less drill and range time, but you handle small party tasks.  In BOTC specifically, you deal with instructional techniques, the military estimate, and reams of powerpoint lectures on leadership.  Other than that, neither course is really more than making a basic soldier/officer who can march, salute and put their clothes on right - many who pass can't even get those right....


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## kincanucks (6 Jun 2006)

Well after doing both, albeit Cornwallis and Chilliwack, I found BOTC easier.  Easier in that I could skip over the polishing my shoes and learning how to make a bed properly and concentrate on how to put the freaking rucksack together as I had just come for the Navy and had never seen one before.


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## AmphibousAssult (8 Jun 2006)

hmmm, maybe I should type a lil slower next time...., thanks for the input guys.


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## Lumber (11 Jun 2006)

andpro said:
			
		

> I have been accepted into ROTP at a civilian university, and have not yet received any dates for my IAP so I am assuming that I will be one of the people who wait for the next year. As I a taking my university in french immersion and also plan to minor in french, will I be required to take second language training If I pass a test? If so would I have to do a military test or would a bilingualism test from my university count?



As far as I have been told (recruiting centre and OCdts from RMC) any Civi U test would mean squat. You have to take the military's 'Second Language Proficiency Test' or you're BBB as they are called. Its known as your 'BBB' because to 'pass' and get out of Second Language Training you need a grade of B or greater (ABCD scale) in each of the three categories, Reading, Writing and Oral. 

From what I can tell, and I hope others can confirm this, is that if you receive your BBB, instead of doing SLT after BOTC during your second summer, you instead do OJT. This I know is the case, here is the question: talking with 2nd and 3rd year OCdts, they say that doing SLT is wayyyy better than OJT. For OJT, you could get placed at a recruiting centre (decent job) or you coul'd get stuck at Gagetown doing nothing but laundry day after day for the whole summer. They said most OJT positions suck just like. They say that SLT on the other hand is a 3 hour class every morning for 4 or 5 weeks. The rest of the day is spent in civies doing whatever you like. You even get a dorm room to yourself where you can have a frigde stocked with beer. 

Any thoughts, confirmations or rebukes on that last part?


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## Japexican (13 Jun 2006)

Yep, SLT was an *all day * affair just like school, for 7 weeks (for RMC guys last year) and it gets old pretty quick (taking a single subject all day with the same teacher).  However, the breaks are long, it is fun to speak (butcher) another language, and hang out with the buds.  If you are in the army then I would say that SLT probably is better than an OJT in G-town, but for the air force and navy guys it is better to grab your B's and go to Halifax, or Comox or wherever and learn about your trade.  You are allowed to have beer, but if too many people act stupidly, they take away the privilege.  On a final note, you must be wary of the elevators, they never work when you want them to.


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## Kid_X (18 Jun 2006)

So, if my IAP/BOTC is deferred to 2007 (year 2), would I do second language training in the summer of year 3?  What if that interferes with Military Occupational Training?  And for a pilot, when does Military Occupational Training start?  Also, I am fluent in both french and english, but being in Air, what would be recommended... make sure to get a C in oral or something to do SLT, or pass it all and do OJT in Comox (if at all possible, it's one of my preferred posting choices).


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## Kid_X (18 Jun 2006)

Yeah, but it was mentioned OJT in Gagetown is a waste of time, I wouldn't mind doing extra training for pilot at all, I would actually much prefer that (I burned all my notes and homework, especially grammar from french class, yesterday) to another french class... but If I'm gonna be stuck doing laundry for a summer... I'd rather take a refresher course.


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## I_am_John_Galt (19 Jun 2006)

Just for the record, the grading system is X,A,B,C,E, where 'X' is no discernable ability and 'E' is perfectly bilingual (Exempt for life from further testing).  It is the same test for the rest of the Public Service in Canada.

We were told (I just got out of SLT 3 weeks ago) that the standard for DEOs was B-A-B (reading-grammar-oral) and RMCs B-B-B (I don't know which standard applies to ROTP CiviU), but the difference is a bit of a moot point because just about everyone who can achieve a 'B' in oral will get Bs or better in reading & grammar.

Apparently, anyone can challenge the Public Function Test prior to attending SLT, and a B-A-B (or B-B-B, as the case may be) will exempt the candidate from having to attend SLT.  Once you are at SLT however, you have to pass a series of tests (the '401' and '402', as they are known) and get a recommendation from the staff prior to writing the Public Function Test (and you are supposed to pass other tests (COCOMS) to allow you to write the 401 & 402).  Also, if you write the Public Function Test and fail to achieve the B-A-B standard, you will be kept at the school for the duration of the course.

Oh yeah, the amount of homework varies quite a lot between classes/professors.

Bonne chance tout le monde!


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## Kid_X (19 Jun 2006)

Alright, awesome, thank you both.  Now someone mentioned Comox as a place to do OJT, I'm looking at being a pilot, what would be something for me to look into during "reading week" (spring break) at Civie U or the summers that I don't have any training?


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## Crimmsy (19 Jun 2006)

Typical OJT's during reading week that I saw people going to which may interest you included Cuba, Mexico, the Dominican, etc. Me, I preferred places like Big White - I burn easily. In other words, reading week is vacation time (except in 4th year. I took two days off then went back to the lab for the rest of the week to bash out the thesis). During the summers you can ask to be sent to just about any unit in the air force. 

If you have a few summers of this, you may want to consider checking out different communities to get a closer look at how they operate, what the lifestyle is like (albiet you'll only get the ops desk perspective - you'll rarely [read: almost never] deploy with your squadron. I do recall hearing of one guy who got to go to Norway with a CF-18 det to work the ops desk _there_). 

In my OJT time, I worked at a Maritime Helo squadron and at a Tactical Airlift squadron, seeing both of those operations helped me make up my mind about where I wanted to work.


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## scholesy (23 Jun 2006)

The SLT conversation seems to be pretty much up to speed, but I'll add a few of the things that I've heard as to what is going on for IAP/BOTC.  I was in one of the first serials to go through the split-over-2 summers style course and I found that BOTC was more or less a repeat (with a few new leadership powerpoint shows) of IAP.  Fortunatley, the new CO of St-Jean has decided to switch a few things up for BOTC this year.  He has made the formerly ridiculous taskings of rope bridge building, lifting of transformers, etc into "combat taskings".  I do not know precisely what is meant by that, but it somewhere along the lines of section attacks and the like.  I have also heard in the rumour mill that is RMC that IAP/BOTC have been moved back to a one summer course.  In my opinion, that is a HUGE blessing for new candidates.

Best of luck to those of you heading off in the next week or two to the MEGA.  My advice is work hard, and play their game - the summer will be over before you know it!


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## SupersonicMax (23 Jun 2006)

Pilot training starts as soon as they can slot you on a PFT course.  Usually after 2nd or 3rd year sometimes after 1st year.  This is the only course you'll do during your 4 years at RMC.  Other than that, it's only OJTs or SLT.  Personnally, even though I never did SLT, I would rather go on OJT since it gives you a taste of what to expect after grad.  And you get to fly cool planes.  Personnally, I did OJT in Bagotville after 1st year, PFT after second year, OJT in Bagotville after 3rd year (gotta love flying the Hornet) and now, I'm in Winnipeg awaiting my course (BFT, Moose Jaw) on OJT at the 402 Sqn Ops (hey, Dash 8 is cool!).  Winnipeg was a personnal choice (believe it or not).  Right now, the wait for MJ is 14-18 months...

Max



			
				Kid_X said:
			
		

> So, if my IAP/BOTC is deferred to 2007 (year 2), would I do second language training in the summer of year 3?  What if that interferes with Military Occupational Training?  And for a pilot, when does Military Occupational Training start?  Also, I am fluent in both french and english, but being in Air, what would be recommended... make sure to get a C in oral or something to do SLT, or pass it all and do OJT in Comox (if at all possible, it's one of my preferred posting choices).


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## Kid_X (27 Jun 2006)

Alright, and because I failed my Aircrew Selection Course, I have to get my private license before reapplying next year, because I'll have my PPL, does that affect my options at all?


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## kincanucks (27 Jun 2006)

Kid_X said:
			
		

> Alright, and because I failed my Aircrew Selection Course, I have to get my private license before reapplying next year, because I'll have my PPL, does that affect my options at all?



So since your last post where you were worrying about where you could do OJT as a Pilot you have failed CFASC?  So you are not enrolling in the ROTP program this year?


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## Kid_X (27 Jun 2006)

No, I failed CFASC back in April, I'm in ROTP as AEC right now, and I'm reapplying for pilot next year.


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## kincanucks (28 Jun 2006)

Kid_X said:
			
		

> and I'm reapplying for pilot next year.



And how do you plan on doing that?


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## Kid_X (28 Jun 2006)

I am attending Civi U, living at home, and will be working a job on the side (if my ULO approves) so that I can afford (parents will be helping me as well) to get my Private Pilot's License at the Ottawa Flying Club. Early next year I will contact my MCC and see how I would go about re-doing my CFASC once I have my PPL.

I spoke to one of the officers that conducted the testing after I was told I didn't make Pilot, and this is what he suggested, if I could afford it.  I was also told by the supervising officer during our paper signing (which was done early - May 29th - because of the June 3rd enrolment ceremony) that over 80% of people that go back a second time succeed, and I was asked to sign a paper of conditional acceptance pending further aircrew tests (because I was accepted into AEC, but haven't done my testing in Toronto yet.) so I guess if I have to do this testing anyways, I will ask to do it a bit later in the year (once I have my PPL) and the entire testing (rather than just the medical in Toronto) after putting in for a component transfer (Or just switch trades? They're both in Air).

If it ever happens that I don't make pilot, for whatever reason (cut off dates, etc), I will gladly go through the program I have been selected for, but will reapply at a later date; because I am not going to give up on my dream of flying for the CF.  If I do not make it in for medical reasons, and my chances of ever becoming a Pilot (or Air Nav, I've qualified for that) become null, I would like to follow in my great uncle's footsteps and join the Combat Arms.


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## kincanucks (28 Jun 2006)

Kid_X said:
			
		

> I am attending Civi U, living at home, and will be working a job on the side (if my ULO approves) so that I can afford (parents will be helping me as well) to get my Private Pilot's License at the Ottawa Flying Club. Early next year I will contact my MCC and see how I would go about re-doing my CFASC once I have my PPL.
> 
> I spoke to one of the officers that conducted the testing after I was told I didn't make Pilot, and this is what he suggested, if I could afford it.  I was also told by the supervising officer during our paper signing (which was done early - May 29th - because of the June 3rd enrolment ceremony) that over 80% of people that go back a second time succeed, and I was asked to sign a paper of conditional acceptance pending further aircrew tests (because I was accepted into AEC, but haven't done my testing in Toronto yet.) so I guess if I have to do this testing anyways, I will ask to do it a bit later in the year (once I have my PPL) and the entire testing (rather than just the medical in Toronto) after putting in for a component transfer (Or just switch trades? They're both in Air).
> 
> If it ever happens that I don't make pilot, for whatever reason (cut off dates, etc), I will gladly go through the program I have been selected for, but will reapply at a later date; because I am not going to give up on my dream of flying for the CF.  If I do not make it in for medical reasons, and my chances of ever becoming a Pilot (or Air Nav, I've qualified for that) become null, I would like to follow in my great uncle's footsteps and join the Combat Arms.



A very ambitious plan.  However,_ Early next year I will contact my MCC and see how I would go about re-doing my CFASC once I have my PPL._ will not happen because the recruiting system will have nothing to do with you at that time and I am 99.9% sure that you will not be allowed to switch occupations while in the ROTP program and therefore will not be reattending CFASC.  You are signed up to be an AEC and that is what you will be unless you don't get your air medical category or you quit now.   People who are in the ROTP don't get a second chance to attend CFASC, civilians do.  Perhaps after you have finished ROTP and served a few years as an AEC you can apply for a transfer to Pilot but not now.  Good luck.


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## Kid_X (28 Jun 2006)

Alright, thank you.


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## SupersonicMax (28 Jun 2006)

Actually, tons of ppl change occupation every year in the ROTP program (at RMC anyways).  There is a VOR competition every year.

Max


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## kincanucks (29 Jun 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Actually, tons of ppl change occupation every year in the ROTP program (at RMC anyways).  There is a VOR competition every year.
> 
> Max



Well I would bet you none of them we transferring to Pilot after failing CFASC and we are talking about ROTP Civ U. Thanks for the point thought.


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## SupersonicMax (29 Jun 2006)

Actually (sorry!!), I personnaly know people that did that (transfer to pilot after they failed CFASC, event after they failed PFT) and it worked.  But I agree that it must be different with Civ U

Max


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## kincanucks (29 Jun 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Actually (sorry!!), I personnaly know people that did that (transfer to pilot after they failed CFASC, event after they failed PFT) and it worked.  But I agree that it must be different with Civ U
> 
> Max



Hmmmm.  I personally know a lot of people that claimed to have done a lot of things too.  So lets leave it at that so that we don't confuse anymore applicants.


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## MC (13 Aug 2006)

The VOR competition is open to civilians (I got mine this year). As far as your situation, I have heard a lot of people say thats what they WANT to do, but haven't seen any actually get it done. But as mentionned in this thread, it happens.


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## Kid_X (13 Aug 2006)

Alright, I'll keep you all posted on whether or not it happens. If it doesn't, I hope I like AEC or even pass my aircrew medical in Toronto, if not I'll look into Combat Eng. or something.  No matter, the CF is the life for me  ;D


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## Japexican (14 Aug 2006)

Kincanucks is right about the process being different for RMC than the civy-u guys.  Make sure you get on top of the VOR situation it as soon as you identify your chain of command (once you are done IAP) and let them know of your plans (even though you might not be VORing until much later).  Your chain probably doesn't do too many VOR's, so they need a heads up asap.  You can re-take CFASC and if you do, you are eligible for a VOR.  However, I believe that you must wait a year after you last took ASC.  You can only apply for a VOR after you pass aircrew (that was the condition when I did it).  This means that you probably won't be able to apply until your second year of university.  I changed from infantry to pilot, but it is very important to stress that there are no guarantees.  You have to jump through quite a few hoops including ASC (which you failed the first time) and the VOR process(which depends on the demands of the CF in the next few years).  You need to be sure that you are prepared to do the job that you signed up for in the first place.  You won't get out of your MOC just because you don't like it.  With that being said, keep your chin up and good luck.


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## Quag (20 Aug 2006)

Ditto to big foot.


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## stefwills (11 Nov 2007)

I'm just wondering what the approximate pay is for the first summer of training. I will most likely be staying in residence at Civie U (if I am accepted of course), and I need to know how much I need to save.


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## Shamrock (11 Nov 2007)

stefwills said:
			
		

> I'm just wondering what the approximate pay is for the first summer of training. I will most likely be staying in residence at Civie U (if I am accepted of course), and I need to know how much I need to save.



This much.


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## stefwills (12 Nov 2007)

Yeah I plan on staying with my current job even through university out of respect to my manager, he needs someone who knows the ropes, and my CoC should be ok with it, I'm an 85 average kind of guy.


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