# Air training for front line: 16 hours. For Red Arrows: 132



## The Bread Guy (21 Nov 2006)

This drew my eye, but as a former infanteer, I know next to bup-kiss about how many flight hours may or may not be "standard" pre-deployment.  Any insights from the stick/yoke appreciated - shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

*Air training for front line: 16 hours. For Red Arrows: 132  * 
Ian Bruce, The Herald (UK), 22 Nov 06
Article Link

Pilots from the RAF's elite Red Arrows aerobatic team are allowed eight times as much flight training time as their frontline colleagues serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

While Harrier, Tornado and Jaguar combat crews are limited to 16 hours a month in the cockpit on cost grounds, the nine pilots on the display circuit enjoy an average of 132 hours in the air and a further three in simulators. 

Those hours do not include time spent by the Red Arrows flying at air shows in the UK and abroad.

The figures emerged from parliamentary questions asked by Mike Hancock, LibDem MP for Portsmouth South, and were confirmed by Adam Ingram, the Armed Forces Minister.

One RAF source said: "How can we claim to be stretched operationally when we can commit nine Red Arrows jets to the Sunderland air show and yet deploy only seven Harriers in support of our troops in Afghanistan?

"While the display team are first-class pilots and great for PR, many of us wonder what the public thinks of a service which appears to put more effort into showboating than committing aircraft to the sharp end."
Since 1965, the Red Arrows have performed more than 4000 displays in 52 countries, including 90 in the UK and Europe this year. 

The 12 Hawk jets used by the pilots are maintained by a 70-strong dedicated ground crew which travels with the squadron.

An RAF spokesman said: "It would be unfair to compare the training needs of a display team flying in tight formation at high speed only a few feet apart with the hours needed to keep a Harrier or Tornado pilot up to scratch in retaining essential skills.

"We would send more Harriers to Afghanistan if it was felt there was a need for more to support the ground forces there. 

"The bottom line is that the pilots all come from operational squadrons to begin with and will take the skills they learn back to the front line when their tour with the Red Arrows ends."

The 15 RAF Harrier pilots based in Afghanistan - two per aircraft and one reserve - flew 1188 sorties between January and September, including 513 in direct bomb or rocket attacks to help the Paras win pitched battles against Taliban insurgents last summer.

The aircraft remain at Kandahar military airfield while crews from the UK's two operational Harrier squadrons are rotated on tours lasting about four or five months. The seven Harriers represent almost 30% of the available jets ....


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## Strike (21 Nov 2006)

Although the Red Arrows are a military team, is there not a form of private/corporate sponsorship in keeping them running?


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## Loachman (22 Nov 2006)

Minimum monthly/quarterly/annual readiness hours are based on need. Certain activities must be performed, and a certain number of hours must be flown, in order to maintain currency. That's generally less than most people would like, but it's enough, even if only barely. The article doesn't say how much sim time those guys get, either.

Now, for aerobatic teams, it's not only skill but absolutely perfect co-ordination between all team members. There's no simulator for that.

I do not see any problem with this, and agree with the RAF spokesman.


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## Zoomie (22 Nov 2006)

Seems like a pretty decent flying rate - for the harrier guys...  15hrs a month is probably about what our Hornet guys achieve.

We are mandated to fly at least 30 hours for every 90 day period - this is our minimum standard.


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