# Bisley Team - Then and Now



## Sapper6 (27 Dec 2004)

Can anyone tell me how the current Cadet Bisley Team is chosen and how does it train?

I was on the '84 Bisley Team and would like to know how things are done today? 

S6


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## HollywoodHitman (27 Dec 2004)

'91 Team here


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## GGHG_Cadet (28 Dec 2004)

The Bisley cadets are selected from the previous year's CLI Marksman, they are the top 25(?) of the course. The cadets chosen arrive at NACSTC Connaught shortly after school ends they then use the Conaught ranges to hone their shooting skills. They may have more than the Connaught ranges available but I do not know. Then a week or two in they are flown to England for the competition. This is what I remember from when I met the 2003 Bisley team in Connaught.


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## 30 for 30 (28 Dec 2004)

'93, '94 teams over here...


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## Sapper6 (28 Dec 2004)

To RNW and HH - good to see other Bisley folks are out there - I had a good time in '84 but I think things were a little more regimented than what I'm hearing on some of these pages.

To GGHQ - thanks.   I take it that CLI is a National course?   In other words do cadets from coast to coast participate?

When I went through you had to go to Rifle Coach Ph 1 (Borden for Ontario Cadets) the first summer and then Rifle Coach Ph 2 the next summer.   At the end of Rifle Coach Ph 2 you travelled to Connaught Ranges and "competed" against all the other Provincial Cadet Teams for a spot on the following year's Bisley Team.   If you made the top 30 you were invited out to BC (Pat Bay Ranges nr Victoria) during March Break to do a "shoot off" where they wittled the team down to approx 20 cadets on the final team.   I also think the Commandant and Coaches were assessing us on our manners as they didn't want to take any chances on "individual" thinkers.

In the end, we were all fitted for custom blazers and slacks and were treated very well.   It was a special time, particularly since we won the AG Bell, Buel and Michael Farraday team matches that year!

S6


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## GGHG_Cadet (28 Dec 2004)

Yes CLI is a National course. The top 90 from the CL Marksman course (also national) are selected for the CLI course which is conducted in Connaught and in Petewawa.


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## Sapper6 (28 Dec 2004)

Thanks GGHG,

Do the cadets still get to wear a silver rifle above their chest pocket for CLI and a gold rifle for being on the Bisley Team?


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## GGHG_Cadet (28 Dec 2004)

Cadets wear a bronze rifle above their chest pocket for top 50 of 90 for CL and a gold rifle for Bisley.

This page shows the shooting pins worn for Bisley and CL- http://ww2.isys.ca/army/shooting.html


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## Sapper6 (29 Dec 2004)

thanks GGHG!  Any other Bisley Team folks out there?  Who was the best team?  I'll say '84 team as we cleaned up virtually all the team matches and had cadets in the Queens 100 in Bisley!

S6


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## 30 for 30 (29 Dec 2004)

That's pretty impressive. We won the AG Bell, which was a great thing at the time, as our competition were outstanding shooters. The '93 trip was the best summer of my life, despite the fact that the entire Bisley team save one was RTU'd just before returning to Canada! Hard to resist a pint or two when half of Bisley is made up of bars! It wasn't a catastrophe, as our month in England was finished anyway.


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## Sapper6 (29 Dec 2004)

RNW,

I suppose you were one of the good guys as they invited you back for '94!

S6


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## brihard (30 Dec 2004)

Some of the numebrs here are slightly inaccurate.

They select annually 100 of the best shots from across canada, and bring them to Connaught ACNSTC for the six-week CL Marksman. Aside form the normal CL course material, they spend a lot of time on the range with the C11 5.56mm bolt action rifle, shooting from 100-600 yards. Of these, the top 36 are selected for next year's CLI Marksman course.

CLIM is also run at Connaught. It's a seven week course, the last week being the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association competition at connaught ranges. It's a civilian shoot. During the course, the cadets will also (varying from year to year dependant on range availability) travel to PEtawawa and Borden for other competition shoots.

Of the 36 from CLIM, the top 18 are chosen, plus the best 3 from that year's Bisley team, to form the next year's 21 member Army Cadet National Rifle Team. So 18 new cadets, plus 3 returnees.

I did CLM in '02, and CLIM in '03. They were both great camps. I had to miss the last week of CLIM because of a family thing, and so did not have the opportunity to go to Bisley. My younger brother did CLM '03 and CLIM '04, but got in some minor trouble on CLIM, and was bumped off the selected team, even though he had shot well enough to qualify, which was unfortunate. I guess my family just wasn't destined to go to Bisley.  Honestly though, my summer of training with the reserves probably exceeds any amount of fun I would have had in England. I enjoy shooting, but not at the devoted professional level that a lot fo the Bisley cadets do. I suppose in a way it's a good thing that one of them got to go in my place, else I'd have been cheating one of them who honestly wanted it more.


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## GGHG_Cadet (30 Dec 2004)

I thought my numbers were a bit off.


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## 30 for 30 (30 Dec 2004)

I was suprised when they invited me back in '94, but didn't hesitate to take the offer. Not as good a summer as '93, but still fun. And it meant I could finally wear that gold rifle after four summers of trg!


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## Navalsnpr (30 Dec 2004)

Was part of the CF Bisley Team in 2001 & was the only CF competitor in 2004.

Funny thing was I never really was good with shooting while I was a Cadet, but since joining the Reg Force, Combat Style shooting appears to be my thing.


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## 407QOCH (1 Jan 2005)

Actually, 100 cadets are chosen for CL markman. and over 5 weeks 50 out of the 100 are singled out and chosen to shoot in competition and qualify for CLI marksman. the other non chosen 50 are NOT able to go to CLI Marksman the next year. Then out of the top 50 cadets after the competition 36 are chosen for the next year.those 36 go to CLI marksman and 18 are chosen from them for the bisley team. the top 3 from the bisley team are chosen to go back too bisley for the next year.


                                                                         I was in CL marksman connought this year


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## Sapper6 (2 Jan 2005)

Thanks 407QOCH,

Things have changed since I went through.  Back then, each province/region had their own CLI Marksman equivalent and they would send 15-20 Cadets to Connaught Ranges every summer to qualify for the the provisional 20 slots on the following year's Bisley Team.

My next question is:  Does any region of Canada put a higher proportion of Cadets on the Bisley Team?  

In my day, it was Ontario followed by Quebec and then BC.  The Prairies and the Maritimes would usually get 2-4 members on only.  I often wondered if that was because their regional CLI Marksman (Rifle Coach Phase 2) was poorly coached/run?

S6   :soldier:


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## Navalsnpr (2 Jan 2005)

I think that this years team had quite a few members from Atlantic Canada.

Thinking back in the day that I was a Cadet and CIC Officer, I know they try to even the field out per region. For example, CFE flyover in '89 had 10 Cadets per Region (West, Prairie, ON, QC & Atlantic).

When it comes to a shooting team though, I believe that the best should be there representing Canada.


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## 407QOCH (3 Jan 2005)

I would say that there are not many people from the praries. There were only about 5 who made it into the top 50 this year. And two out of the 5 said they may quit this year because they are moving, I know that I placed 33rd this year in CL marksman. Also I highly doubt this is because of poor coaching.Most of the coaches have been to bisley 1 or 2 times and have made it through CLI marksman. The coaches are usually civilians hired to coach cadets.


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## rlatimer (3 Jan 2005)

Well this certainly brings back Cadet memories... I attended The 6 Week "Rifle Course" in Winnepeg in 1981 / 82... the First year I barely made the National shoot at Connaught, but the 2nd year back I kicked butt right up to the final days at Connaught, thought I was going to Bisley for sure, but peaked too soon and ended up about 38th place in a pack of 100 or so.  I believe that they took the top 20 or 30 ranked cadets from the National shoot in Aug. then fine tuned the team the next spring prior to sending 18? or so to Bisley.

We had some really decent retired type folks who where on staff to teach us the basics and some ex Army Cadet types that had actually been on the Bisley team.  I felt we were well coached, but it came down to individual performance in competing with other Cadets across Canada.  

I still can't believe we got paid for all never mind the experience of it all ($240 for 6 weeks)...


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## Navalsnpr (3 Jan 2005)

What do Cadets get paid now for being on 6 week courses??


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## 407QOCH (3 Jan 2005)

We now get paid $60 a week, So thats $360 for 6 weeks.


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## Sapper6 (3 Jan 2005)

Thanks rlatimer and QOCH,

As far as coaching was concerned, I suppose it changed from year to year.  My own experience back in the mid-80s was that Ontario had a very strong indoor (.22 cal match rifle) competition in the winter which honed the competitive juices.  The "shoulder to shoulder" matches at Fort York Armouries in Feb was one of the most intense rifle competitions I've ever participated in.  I remember Pat Vamplew (Olympic and Commonwealth shooter) there coaching the Cadets from Pickering getting them "in the zone".  Geesh :-\ This naturally led to Cadets going off to fullbore (.308 target rifle) in the summer.  I remember very well my summer in Borden at CSTS for Rifle Coach Phase II and how competitive it was just on the Ontario team.  By the time we got to Connaught for the Nationals, the coaches had prepared us well for competition (handling nerves and reading wind) and as a result we placed 12 or so in the top 30.

Going to Pat Bay, BC the following Spring for final selection and the subsequent trip to Bisley was an excellent experience and one that I will never forget.  I hope to someday payback a little to RCAC and maybe influence the next generation of Bisley shots.

S6 

Oh, the $260 that I got was nice pocket change for a few tourist trinkets from England


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## 407QOCH (3 Jan 2005)

We had a shooting competition this summer at cannought, one of the matches was named after Pat Vamplew.
I belive it was the 600yrd match.


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## Sapper6 (15 Jan 2005)

We had a shooting competition this summer at cannought, one of the matches was named after Pat Vamplew.
I belive it was the 600yrd match. 

Interesting, as I believe Pat Vamplew is alive and well...so much for naming matches after those that have passed on.

S6Ï


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## 407QOCH (17 Jan 2005)

very true, i thought he was dead?


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## Sapper6 (3 Sep 2005)

Andrew McKenzie said:
			
		

> very true, i thought he was dead?



Well, wouldn't you know it?   Pat Vamplew just won the Governor General's Prize at the 2005 DCRA full bore target rifle matches in Ottawa last weekend!   I guess he is very much alive and well!   His brother Des Vamplew did very well too.

Does anyone from the Pickering High School (Ont R) Cadet Corps remember these fellas?

http://www.dcra.ca/welcome.htm

S6


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## primer (5 Sep 2005)

Then and Now 


http://www.armycadethistory.com/Bisley_main.htm


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## Kclark1979 (29 Jul 2021)

primer said:


> Then and Now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This website does not work any more. Has it been changed?


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## BillN (29 Jul 2021)

Kclark1979 said:


> This website does not work any more. Has it been changed?


The website was taken down after the server owner complained the site was getting too big to host, and the Army Cadet league refused to cough up more $$ to keep it running.   It's a great shame as 99% of the history on that site was unavailable anywhere else.


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## Kclark1979 (29 Jul 2021)

BillN said:


> The website was taken down after the server owner complained the site was getting too big to host, and the Army Cadet league refused to cough up more $$ to keep it running.   It's a great shame as 99% of the history on that site was unavailable anywhere else.


Thanks, I was in Bisley in 1979.  Things have changed quite a bit since then.  I enjoyed looking at the old pictures and reminiscing, To bad Those pictures are lost.


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