# The disability award "top up".....not until 2017?



## Words_Twice

I am not sure if I am reading the legislation correctly, my take on it is that members who received a lump sum payout will not receive the top up until the middle of 2017. After having done a bit of research on the  subject, I cannot find any definitive date as to when this top up will occur. I spoke to my Veterans Affairs case manager this morning , She said it may appear as a surprise Christmas present in your bank account, Which has happened before. Does anybody out there have any more concrete information regarding when we are going to receive this? I received the full 100% back in 2009, with a 126% disability. Naturally, I'm curious!


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## PuckChaser

No released details yet. That being said, there's a clause about whether the veteran is alive or not as of 1 Apr 17, so I wouldn't expect any money until at least that date, and likely many months after. "Surprise Christmas present" might be Christmas 2017, based on how VAC has handled claims before, and this is well into the 6 figures of applicants since 2006 to deal with....


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## Words_Twice

It would be nice if they treated the disability award top up the way the Family Caregiver Allowance was implemented. In my opinion, that was handled quite well. A simple one-page application, and the money went out surprisingly quickly.  I appreciate that this program was just announced, but the implementation of it would be a very simple matter.  This cynical side of me says that a one year delay in paying the top off would mean a few veterans would die in the interim, saving the government a couple of million dollars ( just like the BS VAC pulled with the SISIP clawback reimbursement ). We all know it would take just a couple of keystrokes on a computer, and the money would go out.  Another bizarre section of this legislation is the delay until 2017  to increase the  maximum disability award to $360,000. Why not do it now? Can anyone think of a compelling reason not to?


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## PuckChaser

The $360k is a boost to the 2017 numbers, this year it was increased to $310k. This shouldn't be a form at all. There should be a letter and email sent to all members telling them to update addresses prior to 1 April 2017, and on that day cheques start getting mailed and direct deposits are made. There should be 0 forms, other than to update where you currently live, if it's changed.

The 2017 figure was likely to keep this year's budget deficit down. These payouts are likely in the $5B range, which would have put this year's budget over $35B in the red.


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## Teager

This is pure speculation but because the pension is still being worked on with an option of lump sum. So it could be possible that the return of the pension is brought in with the option of lump sum in 2017. This could explain why the payment is being delayed till next fiscal year. Or I could be completely wrong.


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## RobA

So what about the bump to EL, and expanded access to PIA? 2017 as well?


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## Teager

ELB starts Oct 1 2016 PIA which will be CIA is 1 Apr 2017


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## Occam

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> and this is well into the 6 figures of applicants since 2006 to deal with....



Barely into the six figures, if that.

See chart - http://www.ombudsman-veterans.gc.ca/eng/blog/post/250


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## Words_Twice

If the 2016 increase to the disability award is $310,000, I would be happy with a cheque NOW for the difference between what I received in 2009 and the new 2016 figure. When 2017 rolls around, I'll take the balance then.  I don't want to sound greedy, but the difference between paying me the lump sum benefit versus the proper pension I should've received is hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I have no problem and no guilt whatsoever asking for what is properly due to ALL of us. Frankly,  The 60,000 or 70,000 top up is still a fairly modest amount, when compared to other NATO countries injured veterans compensation schemes. I wonder what stand Equitas is going to take on these new changes.


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## Words_Twice

Teager said:
			
		

> ELB starts Oct 1 2016 PIA which will be CIA is 1 Apr 2017



Hi Teager, what is the source of your information, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Teager

Words_Twice said:
			
		

> Hi Teager, what is the source of your information, if you don't mind me asking?



Bill C-12 first reading was March 24. That link will take you to the Bill link.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/121395/post-1426107.html#msg1426107


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## Teager

Just an update to some of the changes coming to the benefits.



> Disability Award Increased for Veterans"
> Background
> The Disability Award provides injured Canadian Armed Forces members or Veterans with tax-free financial support for an injury or illness resulting from military service. The Disability Award is paid in recognition of the non-economic effects, including pain and suffering, of service-related disabilities on the lives of Canadian Armed Forces members and Veterans.
> 
> Veterans Affairs Canada is committed, through Budget 2016, to a proposed increase to the maximum value of the Disability Award lump-sum amount.
> 
> Quick Facts
> Budget 2016 reaffirmed the Government’s intent to support the long-term financial security of ill and injured Veterans.
> 
> It is proposed that the maximum Disability Award be increased from $310,378 to $360,000 on April 1, 2017. In addition, Death and Detention Benefit amounts would also be increased accordingly.
> 
> If passed, the increase the Disability Award and the Death Benefit would also mean that Canadian Armed Forces members, Veterans and survivors who have already received a Disability Award and/or a Death Benefit under the New Veterans Charter would benefit from the new rate and receive a supplementary payment.
> 
> For example, after the changes come into effect on April 1, 2017, a Veteran who has already received a Disability Award for a 25% disability assessment will receive a payment of $11,000 as a result of the increase.
> 
> The monetary value of a Veteran’s disability benefit is based on an assessment of his or her disability. The two factors that determine the assessment are the level of medical impairment resulting from an illness/injury and the resulting impact on the individual’s quality of life. While the degree of a Veteran’s disability is measured in one percent increments, disability benefits are paid in in 5% increments accordance with legislation.
> 
> The proposed maximum Disability Award lump-sum amount would be comparable to or greater than similar non-economic compensation amounts payable in Canada under private and public sectors insurance plans, by the Workers’ Compensation Board or as non-pecuniary damages awarded by Canadian courts.
> 
> If passed, changes to the Disability Award will come into effect April 1, 2017.
> 
> "Earnings Loss Benefit Increase for Veterans"
> Background
> The Earnings Loss Benefit provides income support to Veterans while they are participating in rehabilitation, and to those who are unable to be suitably, gainfully employed once their rehabilitation is complete.
> 
> Currently, it is a taxable, monthly benefit, which provides 75% of a Veteran’s monthly military salary at release, or of the salary of a basic corporal, whichever is greater. The benefit is adjusted for the Consumer Price Index (CPI) to a maximum of 2% per year.
> 
> Veterans Affairs Canada is committed through Budget 2016 to a proposed increase to the Earnings Loss Benefit that will provide injured Veterans with 90% of their pre-release salary, and index this benefit so that it keeps pace with inflation.
> 
> Quick Facts
> Budget 2016 reaffirmed the Government’s intent to provide for the long-term financial security of ill and injured Veterans.
> 
> Increasing the Earnings Loss Benefit to replace 90% of an eligible Veteran’s pre-release military salary will make a difference in the pocketbooks of Veterans.
> 
> If passed, the Earning Loss Benefit will increase from 75% to 90% of a Veteran’s monthly military salary, or of the salary of a senior private, whichever is greater, and the 2% cap will be removed, so the enhanced benefit will keep pace with inflation.
> 
> In the interest of fairness, the increase is based on a Senior Private’s salary. To do otherwise would mean that some Veterans receiving the benefit could be making more than their comrades on active duty.
> 
> As an example, a Veteran who was a corporal in 1996 could receive up to $2,000 more each year because of this proposed enhancement.
> 
> If passed, changes to the Earnings Loss Benefit will come into effect October 1, 2016.
> 
> "Expanding Access to the Permanent Impairment Allowance"
> 
> Background
> The Permanent Impairment Allowance is a monthly allowance paid to Canadian Armed Forces Veterans who have a permanent and severe impairment resulting from a service-related injury or illness that has affected their employment potential and career advancement. It is payable at three different grade levels (or rates).
> 
> Veterans Affairs Canada is committed, through Budget 2016, to a proposed expansion to the Permanent Impairment Allowance. Proposed changes build on improvements made in 2015 to broaden Permanent Impairment Allowance eligibility and also align with recommendations made by the Veterans Ombudsman and the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.
> 
> Expanding access to the Permanent Impairment Allowance will better support Veterans who have had their career options limited by a service-related illness or injury.
> 
> Quick Facts
> Budget 2016 reaffirmed the Government’s intent to provide for the long-term financial security of ill and injured Veterans.
> 
> A number of factors are considered when assessing the grade level of a Veteran eligible for the Permanent Impairment Allowance. The proposed changes will expand access to the three grade levels by introducing an individual assessment, which will measure the impact a service-related impairment has on a Veteran’s career advancement opportunities, and will consider years of service.
> 
> The changes mean that Veterans will be more appropriately compensated for the specific impact on their careers. No Veteran will receive less money as a result of this assessment.
> 
> For example, a Veteran who was assigned a grade three Permanent Impairment Allowance assessment due to a service-related injury prior to this proposed enhancement may be eligible for a higher grade level and higher Permanent Impairment Allowance payment based on the new individualized assessment, which would take into account the Veteran’s specific circumstances such as the impact on his or her ability to earn an income and the degree to which his or her military career was cut short.
> 
> If changes are approved, the program name would also be changed to “Career Impact Allowance” (from Permanent Impairment Allowance) to better reflect the intent of the program, which is to compensate for loss of employment potential and career advancement opportunities.
> 
> If approved, changes to the Permanent Impairment Allowance will come into effect on April 1, 2017.
> 
> "Re-opening VAC offices and hiring new staff to support Veterans"
> 
> Background
> In 2013, Veterans Affairs Canada closed nine of its offices following an independent assessment that forecasted a five-year decline of 16% in the number of Veterans served by the Department.
> 
> The forecasted decline in Veteran clients did not occur as projected. The Department experienced only a 6% decline in the number of Veteran clients overall between 2010 and 2015. The number of high-need Veterans requiring assistance in the areas served by these nine offices grew from 713 in 2013 to 816 in October 2015.
> 
> The Prime Minister of Canada gave the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence the mandate to re-open the nine previously closed Veterans Affairs service offices and to hire new service delivery staff to better support Veterans and their families where they live.
> 
> Quick Facts
> Budget 2016 reaffirmed the Government’s intent to give back to Veterans and deliver on its promise to restore critical access to services.
> 
> Veterans Affairs Canada will re-open and staff offices in Charlottetown, Sydney, Corner Brook, Windsor, Thunder Bay, Saskatoon, Brandon, Prince George and Kelowna within the next 12 to 18 months.
> 
> Additionally, the Department will open a new office in Surrey, B.C., and expand outreach to Veterans in the Territories by working with local partners.
> 
> To help ensure Veterans have a more successful transition to civilian life, Veterans Affairs Canada will hire additional case managers so that each one serves no more than 25 individuals.
> 
> The Department has recently hired approximately 184 new front-line staff across the country. The number of new staff hired will continue to grow to 400 in total, as Veterans Affairs Canada fulfils its promise to provide Veterans and their families with the support they need, when they need it.
> 
> "Commemoration"
> 
> Background
> It is the Government of Canada’s official duty to recognize with respect and dignity the achievements of Canada’s Veterans and the fallen.
> 
> Commemorating the service and sacrifices of Canada’s Veterans and those who made the ultimate sacrifice is a key pillar of Veterans Affairs Canada’s mandate.
> 
> Through the Canada Remembers Program, Veterans Affairs Canada works to ensure that Canadians remember and demonstrate their recognition of all who served in Canada’s efforts during war, military conflict and peace.
> 
> More than nine in ten (93%) Canadians agreed that Veterans should be recognized for their service to Canada, and 73% agreed that the Department’s remembrance program effectively honours Veterans and those who died in service. (Source: Veterans Affairs Canada, public opinion research, Attitudes Towards Remembrance and Veterans’ Week 2014 Survey).
> 
> The Veterans Affairs Canada 2016-2017 Report on Plans and Priorities highlights the following Canada Remembers Program areas: Funeral and Burial Program, Commemorative Partnership Program, Public Recognition and Awareness and Memorial and Cemetery Maintenance.
> 
> Quick Facts
> Funeral and Burial Program
> 
> The Funeral and Burial Program provides financial assistance for funeral and burial services and grave marking for eligible Veterans. The Last Post Fund, a non-profit organization, delivers the program for Veterans Affairs Canada.
> 
> Funeral and burial assistance is provided to Veterans who die of a service-related injury or illness, or to those in financial need as determined through a means testing of their estate and, if applicable, that of their survivors.
> 
> In Budget 2016, plans were announced to expand program eligibility to more families of lower-income Veterans by increasing the estate exemption from approximately $12,000 to approximately $35,000, and to apply an annual cost of living adjustment moving forward.
> 
> Commemorative Partnership Program
> 
> This program expands the reach of remembrance programming by providing financial assistance for commemorative initiatives such as restoring local cenotaphs and hosting commemorative events. These initiatives are undertaken by organizations that wish to ensure that the achievements of our Veterans and the fallen are not forgotten. As a result, Canadians have more opportunities to participate in remembrance activities.
> 
> In Budget 2016, plans were announced to continue the Community War Memorial Program by merging it with the Commemorative Partnership Program.
> 
> By expanding the scope of the Commemorative Partnership Program to allow funding for the building of new community war memorials, the Department will streamline the application process, making it easier for Canadians and community groups to access funding for commemorative activities.
> 
> Public recognition and awareness
> 
> To encourage public recognition and awareness of the service and sacrifices of Canada’s Veterans and the fallen, Veterans Affairs Canada organizes commemorative ceremonies and events, both in Canada and overseas, in collaboration with regional, national and international partners. Examples include the upcoming 100th anniversary of the Battles of the Somme and Beaumont-Hamel and in 2017, the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge.
> 
> Veterans Affairs Canada is working with Canadian Heritage on the National Memorial to Canada’s Mission in Afghanistan. It will recognize and honour the hard work, courage and personal sacrifices made by Canadians—both military and civilian—during the 12-year long mission. More information regarding the project will be available in the coming months.
> 
> Through Veterans’ Week (November 5-11), Veterans Affairs Canada engages Canadians, most notably educators and youth, in remembrance through a suite of resources and initiatives that highlight our country’s military history. Hundreds of commemorative and educational-based activities take place in communities and schools across Canada, leading up to and concluding with national and local commemorative events on Remembrance Day. More than 28,000 educators receive new learning materials each year to be taught in schools prior to November 11.
> 
> Canadians are encouraged to “Remember Them” through participation and attendance at events and through social media. Materials and promotions drive traffic to the Veterans Affairs Canada website which links visitors to the Department’s social media channels (Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, YouTube, Instagram), Calendar of Events and information on remembrance.
> 
> Veterans Affairs Canada also annually invites Canadian schools, individuals and organizations to make Valentines for Vets. The thousands of valentines are then distributed to Veterans in long-term care facilities across the country on February 14.
> 
> The Department also ensures that first-issue and replacement war-service medals are provided to Veterans, and that the Minister’s Commendation is presented to those who have demonstrated exemplary service to Veterans.
> 
> Memorial and cemetery maintenance
> 
> Canada’s 14 world war memorials in Europe, grave markers all over the world, and two departmental cemeteries in Canada are maintained through this program. Graves of more than 110,000 war dead in Europe and in Canada, as well as war memorials overseas, are cared for in collaboration with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and the United Nations Memorial Cemetery in Korea.
> 
> The Canadian Virtual War Memorial, one of the most highly visited pages on the Veterans Affairs Canada website, and the Books of Remembrance located in the Memorial Chamber on Parliament Hill are also maintained through this program.



http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/department-officials/minister/budget


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## George Wallace

This definitely brings the WTF NEWS home.  The problems facing veterans who came after WW II and Korea are constantly being brought forward and never getting resolved to the satisfaction of the modern veteran community.  They are being treated as "Second Class Veterans".  This further emphasizes the problems with creating VAC and the creation of another class of "Second Class Veterans within the Second Class Veterans".

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



> Ottawa imposes unequal increases in benefits for injured veterans
> GLORIA GALLOWAY
> OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail
> Published Tuesday, May 31, 2016 9:48PM EDT
> Last updated Wednesday, Jun. 01, 2016 7:33AM EDT
> 
> The federal government is increasing the amount it pays to veterans who are so incapacitated they can no longer work, but many of those who currently make the least will get raises of just a couple percentage points while those at higher ranks will get 20 per cent more.
> 
> The unequal adjustments are part of a deliberate attempt by the Liberal government to ensure that those who are discharged from the lower ranks after being injured in the line of duty make less money than soldiers who are still actively serving.
> 
> To do that, the government will essentially demote some veterans to a rank below the one they held when they left the military – something that the veterans say is not only unfair but humiliating.
> 
> 
> “And they are only doing it for the bottom ranks,” said Don Leonardo, the founder of the advocacy group Veterans Canada who, because he retired 20 years ago as a master corporal, will be among those affected. “Why would you pick on the most vulnerable?”
> 
> The Earnings Loss Benefit pays those veterans who are “totally and permanently incapacitated” 75 per cent of what they were making on the day they were released from the Armed Forces until they reach the age of 65.
> 
> In 2011, the then-Conservative government said no one who is entitled to that benefit would receive less than $40,000 annually, which was then 75 per cent of the salary of a basic corporal. That provided a substantial boost, especially to those who were injured in places such as Bosnia, Somalia and Yugoslavia and who were discharged at salaries far below what their successors were making as a result of significant raises in the late 1990s and over the past decade.
> 
> But for years, veterans advocates and politicians have said 75 per cent is insufficient.
> 
> The Liberals promised during last year’s election campaign to invest an additional $40-million annually to provide the permanently injured veterans with 90 per cent of their prerelease salary. It was a commitment they kept in their first budget, with changes that are slated to take effect in October if the budget legislation passes without amendments. But there is a hitch.
> 
> The Liberals say the minimum payments will be based on the current salary of a senior private, even if the disabled soldier left the military at a higher rank.
> 
> The government says on its website that this is being done in the interest of fairness. “To do otherwise,” it explains, “would mean that some veterans receiving the benefits could be making more than their comrades on active duty.”
> 
> When asked to explain why it is so important to ensure that injured veterans do not make the equivalent of serving members of the Canadians Forces, the Veterans Affairs officials did not offer a direct response. “What is of paramount importance is that injured veterans have access to benefits that allow them to focus on their recovery,” they said in an e-mail.
> 
> Those former members of the Armed Forces who were discharged at salaries higher than the $49,449 that is currently paid to a senior private – the majors, the colonels, the generals and even the high-ranking non-commissioned officers – will not be affected by the rank reductions. Their Earnings Loss Benefits payments will climb by 20 per cent under the government’s plan, which, in some cases, will amount to tens of thousands of dollars.
> 
> But those at lower ranks, the mid-range non-commissioned officers who departed the military decades ago, and the reservists who were paid by the day, will get much less.
> 
> Mr. Leonardo, who was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder related to his service as a peacekeeper in the former Yugoslavia, and who makes $42,426 annually through the Earnings Loss Benefit, will get an increase of less than 5 per cent.
> 
> “If you can’t provide for your family, eventually you are going to give up,” said Mr. Leonardo. Politicians “keep talking about mental health. Well, if you can’t provide for your family, why would you even stick around. You feel like you’re not worth anything any more and they demote you a rank to private. It just gets worse and worse and worse.”
> 
> Veterans advocate Sean Bruyea said one of the harshest aspects of the government’s plan for veterans such as Mr. Leonardo is the loss of esteem.
> 
> “I know intellectually this is humiliating,” said Mr. Bruyea, a former captain and military intelligence officer who was also diagnosed with PTSD. “What’s Don’s value as a Canadian civilian now? His value is his memory of being honoured by Veterans Affairs. How do they honour him? They say, ‘We are going to demote you for no reason whatsoever other than to save money.’”
> 
> Cathay Wagantall, a Conservative MP who is her party’s deputy critic for Veterans Affairs, said she is trying to amend the budget bill to protect the lower-income disabled veterans. “I don’t have an answer for why they are choosing to do it this way,” Ms. Wagantall said of the government.
> 
> Irene Mathyssen, the NDP critic, said it is clear that the higher ranked officers will benefit the most. “And those poor guys at the bottom get very, very small increases,” Ms. Mathyssen said. “When you start to crunch the numbers, it’s Liberal voodoo.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More on LINK.
Click to expand...


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## jollyjacktar

This comes as no surprise to me.  Anything that has been done benefits wise by successive governments is all about saving a buck or three on the backs of the injured.  Life pension changes being one of the best examples.  All their babble is just bullshit and meant to throw dust into the air to blind the sight of those who need to keep their eyes on the three card monty game that the GoC and VAC run.


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## George Wallace




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## Teager

I am very confused by all this. So taking myself as an example I released in 2014 and my ELB will be calculated at the Cpl 0 rank which is $56k so 90% of that is about $50k. So a Cpl from 10 or 20 years ago who probably made less than the $49k will be demoted to Snr Pte while a Cpl like myself won't get pushed down? I don't see how this even comes close to any logical sense. Creating another class of veterans again.


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## Pieman

> The Liberals say the minimum payments will be based on the current salary of a senior private, even if the disabled soldier left the military at a higher rank.



I'm reading it that the new minimum will be 90% of a senior private, which I'm willing to bet is equivalent to the 75% of a Cpl pay....so this is like selling fuel for a 'lower price' by changing the ratings from gallons to liters. Lovely.


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## PuckChaser

90% of Pte(3) is $3708.
75% of Cpl 5A (0) is $3535.50.

$172.50 raise, or less than 5% of Pte(3).


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## Pieman

Not exact amount, but I think that is close enough to say this is  a smoke and mirror show letting them get away with living up to their 90% commitment by not paying effectively anything extra.


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## PuckChaser

Very much so. They'll tout the 15% increase to 90%, but with this slight of hand they only actually had to increase roughly 5%. A true 15% increase would have left the base salary as a Basic Corporal, a rank which everyone would attain if they were able to serve 5 years at most.


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## jollyjacktar

Sounds like more Liberal lies, as usual.


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## The Bread Guy

This is _really_ the best they could do?  :facepalm:


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## Teager

> The Liberal government refuses amendments to the budget to protect benefits and improve services for wounded veterans
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> June 1, 2016
> 
> Ottawa (Ontario) - Yesterday, the Conservative members on the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, Alupa Clarke, Cathay Wagantall and Robert Kitchen, submitted three amendments to Bill C-15, the Implementation Act, the Liberal government's budget, which is currently being studied by the Finance Committee. These changes would improve service delivery to injured veterans and protect the monthly payments of the allowance for loss of earnings against the planned reduction by the Liberal government.
> Unfortunately, the Liberals Committee members voted unanimously against the proposed changes to protect the Allowance for loss of income, even if the reduction of the minimum threshold in the pay of a senior soldier instead of that of a basic Corporal result in lower benefits received by the most vulnerable injured veterans.
> In addition, the Liberal chair of the Committee used procedural tactics to ensure that the vote on the two amendments does not take place. These amendments would have allowed the Department of Veterans Affairs to meet with wounded veterans at home and would have ensured that the Department of National Defence is working with the Department of Veterans Affairs to ensure that injured military assistance to navigate the complex administrative process to receive their benefits.
> Addressing the Finance Committee yesterday, Cathay Wagantall member said: "The budget does not address the procedural problems which mean that the most vulnerable veterans, men and women who suffer from serious physical and mental illness , may not receive the support they deserve in a reasonable time. "
> After the rejection of the amendments, the Wagantall MP added: "During the campaign, the Liberals promised to continue to improve services for wounded veterans and protect their benefits. Our amendments were based on the testimony of veterans and were a positive step in the right direction. Unfortunately, the Liberal government has chosen to vote against one of them and has used procedural tactics to block the other two.



https://fr-ca.facebook.com/AlupaClarke/posts/1430050133687603


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## Fishbone Jones

VAC can already meet you at home. It's up to the Vet if they want to or not.


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## Teager

recceguy said:
			
		

> VAC can already meet you at home. It's up to the Vet if they want to or not.



Perhaps they mean those without a case manager?


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## Fishbone Jones

Teager said:
			
		

> Perhaps they mean those without a case manager?



Anything is possible. Nobody is ever 100% sure what a politician means when they open their mouths.


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## RobA

Teager said:
			
		

> I am very confused by all this. So taking myself as an example I released in 2014 and my ELB will be calculated at the Cpl 0 rank which is $56k so 90% of that is about $50k. So a Cpl from 10 or 20 years ago who probably made less than the $49k will be demoted to Snr Pte while a Cpl like myself won't get pushed down? I don't see how this even comes close to any logical sense. Creating another class of veterans again.



No. Everyone gets the same COLA increases given to serving soldiers. I got out a a Cpl 3 in 2008, and my ELB today is calculated using Cpl 3 salary today.

When they say "70% of your retirement salary" they don't mean the dollar amount of when you got out. They mean your retirement rank.


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## RobA

RobA said:
			
		

> No. Everyone gets the same COLA increases given to serving soldiers. I got out a a Cpl 3 in 2008, and my ELB today is calculated using Cpl 3 salary today.
> 
> When they say "70% of your retirement salary" they don't mean the dollar amount of when you got out. They mean your retirement rank.



As I understand it, the previous minimum threshold was a Cpl 2 (I believe). So even if you never got Cpl 2, your ELB is still based on Cpl 2 salary. The new min threshold is Pte 3. So if you were a Pte when released, your old ELB was based on Cpl 2 pay. Now it'll be based on Pte 3.

Anybody over the rank of Pte won't really be affected by this. What is the number of pensioned vets who never made it to Cpl? Probably not that high. That said, they should just keep the threshold where it is. Even a few vets through the cracks is too many. I dont see this as the hill to die on though.


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## RobA

> The Liberals say the minimum payments will be based on the current salary of a senior private, even if the disabled soldier left the military at a higher rank.



Is there a source for this? That seems absurd, and reads like it came from one of those goofy anti Liberal memes you see on FB.

The point of a "minimum threshold" is that if you come in UNDER the threshold, they bump you up, but if you are OVER it, there's no change. That's been the definition of "minimum threshold" in pretty much every context the term is ever used. 

I'm not sure why it would change now.

If a Cpl 3 gets dragged down to Pte 3, then Pte 3 is the MAXIMUM threshold, not the minimum, which is basically the exact opposite of the wording used in the bill.


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## blackberet17

No one is being "demoted". VAC can't take away the rank you held when you released. That's just stupid spin by Mr. Bruyea and the journalist, FFS.

If/when the bill passes, the minimum any person receiving ELB will be 90% of a Snr Pte. This does not mean a Snr Cpl receiving ELB will be bumped down or demoted to a Pte. It means the MINIMUM he is GUARANTEED to receive is whatever the math works out to.

While it is not a substantial increase for some/many, it is still a minimum guaranteed income, which in itself has been raised. As described earlier in this post:



> If passed, the Earning Loss Benefit will increase from 75% to 90% of a Veteran’s monthly military salary, or of the salary of a senior private, whichever is greater, and the 2% cap will be removed, so the enhanced benefit will keep pace with inflation.
> 
> In the interest of fairness, the increase is based on a Senior Private’s salary. To do otherwise would mean that some Veterans receiving the benefit could be making more than their comrades on active duty.



If/when the bill is passed, and the policies are pushed out, I'll see what I can get to share here.


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## blackberet17

From the Minister, extract from a larger press release:



> No Veteran will be, or has been demoted to a rank below the one held when he or she left the military. In some cases, they will receive more than 90% of their pre-release salary. Changes in Budget 2016 mean the minimum Earnings Loss Benefit payable will be $44,496 per year. Veterans will get 90% of their pre-release salary, or the minimum, whichever is greater.



https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-hehr/earnings-loss-benefit-allocation-pour-perte-de-revenus/979551942152884


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## blackberet17

Moderators, maybe we should split the derail of the DA "top up" into an ELB discussion, and move the latter into the original ELB discussion?


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## Teager

> Liberals explain disparity in Earnings Loss Benefit for disabled veterans
> 
> GLORIA GALLOWAY
> OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail
> Published Thursday, Jun. 02, 2016 9:10PM EDT
> Last updated Thursday, Jun. 02, 2016 9:10PM EDT
> 
> Veterans Affairs says a hike to an income-replacement benefit for permanently disabled veterans was never intended to be applied equally across the board, and even if those at higher ranks will get a higher percentage increase, those who are paid the least will still be above the poverty line.
> 
> “When you map it out, each veteran’s circumstances are different, for sure. And the net effect may well be different for individuals,” a senior official at the Veterans Affairs told reporters at a technical briefing on Thursday. “But it was never the intention to say that everybody should receive the same increase.”
> 
> To treat all disabled veterans equally under the Earnings Loss Benefit, regardless of how long ago they retired and at what salary, would be “very challenging,” said the official who spoke on condition that his name not be used.
> 
> After years of lobbying by veterans’ advocates, the Liberal government moved in the March budget to improve the benefit, which is intended to replace the income of disabled soldiers as they go through rehabilitation, as well as those who are “totally and permanently incapacitated” and can no longer work. Starting in October, the benefit will increase to 90 per cent of a veteran’s pre-release salary from 75 per cent.
> 
> But because the government has also decided to set the minimum amount paid under the benefit at the salary of a senior private, which is a drop from the rank of basic corporal, where it has been set for the past five years, those veterans who make the least will get an increase of about 4 per cent, while those who make more will get an extra 20 per cent. That means former high-ranking officers could get tens of thousands of additional dollars each year, while veterans at the low end who are earning just over $42,000 will see an extra $2,070.
> 
> Those who stand to gain the least are mainly former soldiers who served in places such as Somalia, Bosnia, Yugoslavia and Rwanda and were discharged before significant increases to military pay were approved in the late 1990s and over the past decade.
> 
> The Conservative government recognized in 2011 that many veterans were not making enough under the Earnings Loss Benefit to put food on their tables, and set the base rate at 75 per cent of what then was being made by a basic corporal, which was about $40,000.
> 
> But when the Liberal government decided to set the benefit at 90 per cent of a veteran’s prerelease salary, the Veterans’ Affairs department determined that base could be lowered to the rank of private and all disabled veterans would still be above the low-income cutoff line, the official said.
> 
> “It actually meant that everybody, regardless of where you are in the continuum, would be brought up to a level sufficiently above the low-income measure that it was no longer required to use that arbitrary basic corporal level to calculate the basic percentage,” he explained.
> 
> The Conservatives and the New Democrats have been challenging the government about the decision this week during the daily Question Periodin the House of Commons.
> 
> On Thursday, Alupa Clarke, the Veterans Affairs critic for the Conservatives, asked Veterans Affairs Minister Kent Hehr to explain why he is “putting veterans at risk.”
> 
> The minister replied that veterans have been asking for the Earnings Loss Benefit to be increased from 75 per cent to 90 per cent of a pre-release salary for a decade. “We moved on it and we delivered on it, increasing financial security for those veterans who are most disabled and those veterans who have served our armed forces with great honour and great dignity,” he said. “We are there for them.”
> 
> The government said in a news release last month that dropping the base rate for the Earnings Loss Benefit to the salary of a senior private was done in the interest of “fairness.” To do otherwise, the government explained, would mean that some veterans receiving the benefit could make more than their comrades on active duty.
> 
> When asked why it is important that disabled veterans receive less than soldiers who are still in the military, the Veterans’ Affairs official explained that the New Veterans Charter, which was enacted in 2006 and which incorporated the Earnings Loss Benefit, was aimed at getting disabled veterans rehabilitated and back to work.
> 
> “If the consequence is that you end up paying more to an individual in rehab than those still serving, then I guess there’s a question about whether or not that would achieve the objectives of the wellness model,” he said.
> 
> Getting back to work does not apply to the roughly 2,293 veterans who are receiving the Earnings Loss Benefit because they are permanently disabled. The Veterans Affairs official said those who will not recover from their injuries are eligible for other benefits – although he acknowledged that those other benefits can also be accessed by the higher-ranking veterans who will get the largest raises under the Earnings Loss Benefit.




http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/disparity-in-earnings-loss-benefit-for-disabled-veterans-explained/article30256008/


----------



## BinRat55

Anyone get a "surprise Christmas deposit" yet? In terms of the DA retro-top-up that is...


----------



## Teager

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Anyone get a "surprise Christmas deposit" yet? In terms of the DA retro-top-up that is...



Doesn't take effect until April 1 2017.


----------



## RobA

Speaking of, has anyone got clarification for how much we get yet? I.e. is the top up including all the COLA increases?

From everything I'm reading in the laughably miniscule amount of info out there, the maximum payout should be around $50,000 (if you're at 100%).

Anybody have anything that suggests otherwise?


----------



## PuckChaser

That's the way it seems. Regardless of the year of your award(s), it will get topped up to % of $360K as if the max amount of those years was that $360K.


----------



## BinRat55

I understand it this way:

2008 - Awarded 68,000 @ 25% (Based on 275,000)
2016 - Awarded 74,000 @ 25% (Based on 310,000)

Retro should be:

2008 - 360,000 * 25% = 90,000 (90,000 - 68,000 = 22,000)
2016 - 360,000 * 25% = 90,000 (90,000 - 74,000 = 16,000)

22,000 + 16,000 = 38,000

Ish...


----------



## PuckChaser

That's how I've read it as well. 

I have 2x 5% awards, a couple years apart. I'll get topped up to $36K total award, which means a cheque for about $7K.

When those cheques arrive though, you'd have better results trying to predict the end of the world.


----------



## BinRat55

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> When those cheques arrive though, you'd have better results trying to predict the end of the world.



Or WHEN the Leafs will win the cup...  :cold:


----------



## PuckChaser

BinRat55 said:
			
		

> Or WHEN the Leafs will win the cup...  :cold:



I don't want to wait 5 years for my money.  [


----------



## Teager

There's a lot of debate on how it will be calculated. The big problem is VACs example of someone receiving a 25% award would receive a $11000 top up doesn't matter the year you recieved it. No one can figure out how they came to a top up of $11 000 but that's what they are saying.

So BinRat you would be looking at $22 000 total for a top up.

Link for VACs example http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/department-officials/minister/budget/disability-award

I would hope that the way you and Puckchaser are calculating it is correct but VAC has thrown many with there example.


----------



## PuckChaser

Teager said:
			
		

> There's a lot of debate on how it will be calculated. The big problem is VACs example of someone receiving a 25% award would receive a $11000 top up doesn't matter the year you recieved it. No one can figure out how they came to a top up of $11 000 but that's what they are saying.
> 
> So BinRat you would be looking at $22 000 total for a top up.
> 
> Link for VACs example http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/department-officials/minister/budget/disability-award
> 
> I would hope that the way you and Puckchaser are calculating it is correct but VAC has thrown many with there example.



Bear with me, I'm a SigOp not a MathOp but the answer for the VAC example is solveable:

25% of $360K is $90K
$90K minus the $11K topup would be $79K
$79K (being 25% of max payout) times 4, is $316K

$316K is what the max disability rating would have likely been in 2017 with inflation, as $310,378 was the 2016 numbers (It's been going up roughly $6K a year for the past few years). 

Someone getting a 25% payout in 2006 would be looking at a topup of $27,500.


----------



## Jarnhamar

If a member put a VAC claim in in 2016  and he was assessed as 16% (like a 16% injury?)  would he receive any extra money for this top up thing?


----------



## Teager

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> If a member put a VAC claim in in 2016  and he was assessed as 16% (like a 16% injury?)  would he receive any extra money for this top up thing?



Yes, but would only receive 15% payment VAC will round up or down.


----------



## Teager

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Bear with me, I'm a SigOp not a MathOp but the answer for the VAC example is solveable:
> 
> 25% of $360K is $90K
> $90K minus the $11K topup would be $79K
> $79K (being 25% of max payout) times 4, is $316K
> 
> $316K is what the max disability rating would have likely been in 2017 with inflation, as $310,378 was the 2016 numbers (It's been going up roughly $6K a year for the past few years).
> 
> Someone getting a 25% payout in 2006 would be looking at a topup of $27,500.



Makes sense to me hopefully that's how VAC sees it too.


----------



## Rifleman62

The amount Disability *Award* _and_ *Pension* depends on:

    the degree to which your disability is related to your service (entitlement); and
    the extent of your disability (assessment)

The entitlement is based on fifths - 5/5 represent the Crown is responsible, 1/5 the Crown is only minimally responsible. If you are assessed a 5% disability and 5/5 entitlement you get 5%. If you are assessed a 5% disability and 3/5 entitlement you get 3%.

PuckChaser 





> I have 2x 5% awards


. What is your entitlement? (I don't need to know).

All of the above because I bet for sure VAC will calculate the entitlement for the top up. IMHO.


----------



## meni0n

The way I am understanding it is: 310378 is 86% of 360000 so the increase is around 14%. 14% of 77594 is about 11k.


----------



## Occam

Oh my...this is getting downright painful to read.

Here's the gospel according to the legislation.  Amendments to the NVC begin at Section 80. Changes to the Disability Award and Death Benefit begin at Section 99.

The vast majority of people getting the retro payment will come under Section 100 - that covers members who are still alive as of 1 April 2017.



> *Member or veteran who received disability award*
> 
> 100 (1) The Minister must pay to a member or a veteran who received, in whole or in part, a disability award under section 45, 47 or 48 of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accordance with the formula
> 
> A − B
> 
> where
> A
> is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted*; and
> 
> B
> is the amount of the disability award that was payable to the member or the veteran under subsection 52(1) of the Act.
> 
> *Death of member or veteran before amount paid*
> 
> (2) If the member or veteran dies before the amount is paid under subsection (1), the Minister must pay that amount, in accordance with section 55 of the Act, to a survivor or a person who was, at the time of the member’s or veteran’s death, a dependent child.



* This is also known as the annual indexing rate, or COLA.

Schedule 3 is at the very bottom of the document.

Now if you have access to the Indexing rates since 2006, you can calculate this exactly the same way VAC is going to do it.


----------



## Tilap61

So people will be getting a good shunk of money less then what they expect. Since most think A= % as of 1 April 2017 minus % received. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/econ46a-eng.htm


----------



## Teager

So what is the formula used to calculate the amount someone would get?


----------



## Tilap61

Well exemple April 2017 assessed at 15% =$54000  let's say you got your desability payment in 2013. Look at the CPI for

2016= 1.3 so 54000 X 1.3 $702
2015= 1.1x 54000 = $574
2014 = 2.0x 54000 = $1080
2013 = .9 X 54000= $486

Add all the result $2842

Now $54000- $2842 = $51158

So $51158 - whatever you received then 15% in 2013 was $44788 so $51158 -44788= $6370 vice if they would have taken 2017 rate minus 2013 rates then it would have been $9212.   Hope it make sense.


----------



## BinRat55

Huh?


----------



## Tilap61

Binrat who said that anything was easy and clear with VAC. If it was nobody would get screwed .G


----------



## BinRat55

Huh??


----------



## Teager

BinRat in simple terms your getting less money from VAC than you think if Tilaps calculation is what VAC is using.


----------



## Occam

Tilap61 said:
			
		

> Well exemple April 2017 assessed at 15% =$54000  let's say you got your desability payment in 2013. Look at the CPI for
> 
> 2016= 1.3 so 54000 X 1.3 $702
> 2015= 1.1x 54000 = $574
> 2014 = 2.0x 54000 = $1080
> 2013 = .9 X 54000= $486
> 
> Add all the result $2842
> 
> Now $54000- $2842 = $51158
> 
> So $51158 - whatever you received then 15% in 2013 was $44788 so $51158 -44788= $6370 vice if they would have taken 2017 rate minus 2013 rates then it would have been $9212.   Hope it make sense.



I think(!) the way they'll do it would actually be 54000 - 1.3%.  Take the result and deduct 1.1% off the result.  Then take that result and deduct 2.0%...and so on.  The net result is marginally less of a hit than the way you did it.


----------



## Tilap61

I took a second look at the law as it is written and you might be right but like you said it would be magically more, a few hundred bucks in my example. I'll take it. Thanks for pointing that out to me.


----------



## Occam

That's simply my guess.  The wording is so ambiguous they could do it either way and substantiate the way they decided to do it.  Who knows what their actual intent was when writing it up.  Hopefully there will be a detailed calculation sent out for everyone when it's time to make the direct deposits, so we aren't forced to look at the top up sum awarded and wonder "Just how did they arrive at that?".


----------



## Rifleman62

Who here trusts Trudeau's promises for anything, let alone the Liberals election promises to woo the Veterans' vote? Who here trusts VAC?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Until I have the money, tax free in my account, I don't believe it. With the liebrals, we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop.


----------



## PuckChaser

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Who here trusts Trudeau's promises for anything, let alone the Liberals election promises to woo the Veterans' vote? Who here trusts VAC?



The bill recieved Royal Assent on 22 Jun 16, the money has to be paid out (unless someone puts another bill in to cancel it). Whether VAC screws it up completely and no one sees any cash until 2019 remains to be seen.


----------



## Rifleman62

Return to lifetime pensions with survivors benefits?

Anyone finding the reopening and the establishment of a new VAC office in the Minister of National Defence riding helpful?


----------



## slayer/raptor

Teager said:
			
		

> There's a lot of debate on how it will be calculated. The big problem is VACs example of someone receiving a 25% award would receive a $11000 top up doesn't matter the year you recieved it. No one can figure out how they came to a top up of $11 000 but that's what they are saying.
> 
> So BinRat you would be looking at $22 000 total for a top up.
> 
> Link for VACs example http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/department-officials/minister/budget/disability-award
> 
> I would hope that the way you and Puckchaser are calculating it is correct but VAC has thrown many with there example.



Have they removed the example? I went to the link but it just explains the top-up and shows no example.


----------



## Teager

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Have they removed the example? I went to the link but it just explains the top-up and shows no example.



Strange when I posted I checked the site and the example was there. So it looks like it has now been removed.


----------



## CampCricket

I'm not sure how you came up with the numbers below. I started receiving my top up yesterday. Looks like it's back dated to October 1st. On my VAC account online its listed as TEMPORARY INCOME LOSS benefit

I was medically released 12 months ago. My release salary was 62,232 MCpl pay
Looks like I'm getting $470 a month after tax of which only $32 is being held back. 

I'm greatful to receive the amount and my intent is not to complain - but I'm just curious as to how this amounts to a 15% top up - it looks more like 10%. There is no reference on my online account and I have no letter from VAC yet to explain this to me... so I'm just super curious on how they arrived at this calculation and what others are receiving. Since I'm a recent release - there is no indexing involved...  I figure this might be an easier example to explain. 

Any insight would be nice









			
				Tilap61 said:
			
		

> Well exemple April 2017 assessed at 15% =$54000  let's say you got your desability payment in 2013. Look at the CPI for
> 
> 2016= 1.3 so 54000 X 1.3 $702
> 2015= 1.1x 54000 = $574
> 2014 = 2.0x 54000 = $1080
> 2013 = .9 X 54000= $486
> 
> Add all the result $2842
> 
> Now $54000- $2842 = $51158
> 
> So $51158 - whatever you received then 15% in 2013 was $44788 so $51158 -44788= $6370 vice if they would have taken 2017 rate minus 2013 rates then it would have been $9212.   Hope it make sense.


----------



## Tilap61

Campcricket we are talking about 2 different things. What I a am taking about it the disability award which will come into effect april1st. You are talking about ELB. ELB is topping up to 90% of your pre release salarY taking into account your pension, CPP disability , SISSIP and any other income.


----------



## Occam

CampCricket said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how you came up with the numbers below. I started receiving my top up yesterday. Looks like it's back dated to October 1st. On my VAC account online its listed as TEMPORARY INCOME LOSS benefit
> 
> I was medically released 12 months ago. My release salary was 62,232 MCpl pay
> Looks like I'm getting $470 a month after tax of which only $32 is being held back.
> 
> I'm greatful to receive the amount and my intent is not to complain - but I'm just curious as to how this amounts to a 15% top up - it looks more like 10%. There is no reference on my online account and I have no letter from VAC yet to explain this to me... so I'm just super curious on how they arrived at this calculation and what others are receiving. Since I'm a recent release - there is no indexing involved...  I figure this might be an easier example to explain.
> 
> Any insight would be nice



Completely different program at VAC.  You're talking about the ELB top-up.

There will be a retroactive top-up to any lump sum disability award(s) you have received since the NVC took effect in April 2006.  You will receive a top-up sometime after April 2017.  VAC already knows who has received these awards, and will send the top-ups out automatically.


----------



## CampCricket

Occam said:
			
		

> That's simply my guess.  The wording is so ambiguous they could do it either way and substantiate the way they decided to do it.  Who knows what their actual intent was when writing it up.  Hopefully there will be a detailed calculation sent out for everyone when it's time to make the direct deposits, so we aren't forced to look at the top up sum awarded and wonder "Just how did they arrive at that?".



I'm not sure how you came up with the numbers below. I started receiving my top up yesterday. Looks like it's back dated to October 1st. On my VAC account online its listed as TEMPORARY INCOME LOSS benefit

I was medically released 12 months ago. My release salary was 62,232 MCpl pay
Looks like I'm getting $470 a month after tax of which only $32 is being held back. 

I'm greatful to receive the amount and my intent is not to complain - but I'm just curious as to how this amounts to a 15% top up - it looks more like 10%. There is no reference on my online account and I have no letter from VAC yet to explain this to me... so I'm just super curious on how they arrived at this calculation and what others are receiving. Since I'm a recent release - there is no indexing involved...  I figure this might be an easier example to explain. 

Any insight would be nice


----------



## slayer/raptor

Unless I missed it, they still haven't mentioned whether or not they are bringing back the pensions for those who received a one time disibility award correct? Even though it was in the Liberals _promises_.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Unless I missed it, they still haven't mentioned whether or not they are bringing back the pensions for those who received a one time disibility award correct? Even though it was in the Liberals _promises_.



 I think they're trying to make it disappear. Once they looked at it and realized the Reserve Pension fiasco was just a warning of the bureaucratic boondoggle that would come with the implementation of life long pensions.



_ DISCLAIMER: The preceding, posted by me, has not been fact checked. It is not based on identifiable sources, but simply my own opinion. Feel free to try change my mind, on important subjects, I’ll listen, but still may not agree with you, so don’t be offended. It’s not personal. This disclaimer will shortly be replaced with this smilie,   at the beginning of my posts (as above) that require it. Cheers._


----------



## Occam

recceguy said:
			
		

> I think they're trying to make it disappear. Once they looked at it and realized the Reserve Pension fiasco was just a warning of the bureaucratic boondoggle that would come with the implementation re-implementation of life long pensions.



FTFY.

As I understand it, there are some stakeholder members of the VAC Policy Advisory Group who are not pushing the reinstatement of disability pensions for *all* those affected by the the NVC.  It would be a travesty if we got the Liberal government to commit to restoring full disability pensions for those who wish them as an election promise, only to have the whole thing torpedoed by veterans themselves.


----------



## slayer/raptor

Does anyone on here know how the disability pension used to work? Was it kind of like today? As in 100% disability was a fixed priced per year and then everyone would receive a monthly amount depending on how much of a percentage of loss they were assessed?

Did the pension have a problems? Why is it so hard to go back to the way it was before? Was it too expensive for the gov't?


----------



## QV

The old life long disability pension costs a lot more then the current lump sum award.  The government of the day realizing casualties were going to be very expensive decided to cut costs with respect to veterans benefits.  They did this while Canadian troops were in combat.  

Pro patria.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

QV said:
			
		

> The old life long disability pension costs a lot more then the current lump sum award.  The government of the day realizing casualties were going to be very expensive decided to cut costs with respect to veterans benefits.  They did this while Canadian troops were in combat.
> 
> Pro patria.



Yup. Changed the rules of the game while we were playing.


----------



## Rifleman62

Here is the VAC link to five pages of the 2016 rate tables for future reference. PDF attached. First page indicates a single pensioner e.g.  @100 % would receive $2695.73 per month. With spouse, 2 children it would be $3976.20 per month and so on. The Tables also include survivors pension amounts. The pensions are indexed annually at the same rate as all federal government pensions. This year it was 1.3%. The 2017 Tables have not been published yet.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/rates      then scroll down to " View the complete Disability Pension rate tables"


----------



## slayer/raptor

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Here is the VAC link to five pages of the 2016 rate tables for future reference. PDF attached. First page indicates a single pensioner e.g.  @100 % would receive $2695.73 per month. With spouse, 2 children it would be $3976.20 per month and so on. The Tables also include survivors pension amounts. The pensions are indexed annually at the same rate as all federal government pensions. This year it was 1.3%. The 2017 Tables have not been published yet.
> 
> http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/rates      then scroll down to " View the complete Disability Pension rate tables"



Thanks for the link. I suppose a big problem, if they were to go back to pensions, is to figure out how do they start compensating those who got a lump sum. Do they A: Take the money back and then put them on a pensions, B: Not give them a pension for several years until they make up for the money they were given etc... So I could see how "Just returning to how it used to be" would not be as simple as that.


----------



## Teager

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Thanks for the link. I suppose a big problem, if they were to go back to pensions, is to figure out how do they start compensating those who got a lump sum. Do they A: Take the money back and then put them on a pensions, B: Not give them a pension for several years until they make up for the money they were given etc... So I could see how "Just returning to how it used to be" would not be as simple as that.



The Minister and VAC stakeholders have been down this path already. The pension is NOT coming back at least in terms of the previous system. Here is what has been proposed to the minister so far.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/stakeholder-engagement/policy


----------



## Occam

Teager said:
			
		

> The Minister and VAC stakeholders have been down this path already. The pension is NOT coming back at least in terms of the previous system. Here is what has been proposed to the minister so far.
> 
> http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/stakeholder-engagement/policy



Those are only recommendations, though.  Implementing only those recommendations would represent a major renege on the promises made during the election.  There is absolutely no mention of a return to any kind of pension in those recommendations whatsoever.

Strangely enough, it does mention the following:



> To achieve “one veteran one standard” it is our ongoing task to ensure that no veteran under the New Veterans Charter should receive less compensation than a veteran under the Pension Act with the same level of disability or incapacity



I don't see how they can achieve equitable compensation for the same level of disability while only acting on the recommendations they've made.

That's why I've referred to being torpedoed by our own.


----------



## Teager

Occam said:
			
		

> Those are only recommendations, though.  Implementing only those recommendations would represent a major renege on the promises made during the election.  There is absolutely no mention of a return to any kind of pension in those recommendations whatsoever.
> 
> Strangely enough, it does mention the following:
> 
> I don't see how they can achieve equitable compensation for the same level of disability while only acting on the recommendations they've made.
> 
> That's why I've referred to being torpedoed by our own.



For those wanting to go back to the old pension system I believe the Stakeholders (I want to avoid saying our own as many stakeholders are not veterans) torpedoed it the second they said no to when the Minister said he would bring back the old system. I believe the reason tho was bringing back the old system meant getting rid of some of the current programs in place.


----------



## RobA

I think some here are going to be very disappointed with the top up in April.

The law is written pretty clearly that we WONT be getting the COLA increases every year since we got our award.

The easiest way to look at it is, take the value of the new increased 100% award ($350k) and subtract the 100% from 2016 ($305,000 I think?). THATS what we get topped up, not any of the COLA increases. Then just apply your % from that total  ($45,000). So a 50% award should mean $22,500.

That's why the example from the VAC website didn't include the year awarded, because it doesn't matter. All 100%'ers will get the same ($45k). All 50% will get the same and so on.

I think it's bullshit because money has a time value. If you were entitled to $XX amount in 2008 or 2009, and didn't get it, that is money that could have been earning you interest or a return in some other investment.

But it is what it is. I don't understand why VAC just doesn't release the formula they intend to use. The law is on the books. They already have all the information they need to make their calculations.


----------



## Teager

The example has been removed so that's probably an indication that it was wrong or some other reason. As RG said I will just want till it's in the bank then I will figure out what black magic VAC used to come to the amount they gave me.


----------



## Tilap61

RobA.    Actually the formula is written in the bill. Go back a few posts you will see it.


----------



## RobA

Yeah I know. I thought maybe they would tweak it a bit, I guess I assumed they wouldn't actually not pay COLA increases. 

If they go exactly as is written in the bill, then my above statement is definitely true. The highest amount anyone would see is about $45,000, and that's assuming they got the top rate.


----------



## cdnwo

I spoke with VAC today and they clearly state that they have not yet received any guidance nor instructions on how they are to proceed. It would appear they too are as lost as we all are regarding any April 2017 top up.


----------



## catalyst

Not lost - I have every faith that somebody somewhere knows the calculation. Its just that frontline staffers are the last to know.....


----------



## Tilap61

RobA their calculation is A-B.   A is 
the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted*; 

So let's say 100% 360000$ "REDUCED" by CPI every year to the year you actually received your desability payout. So basically they are taking the 360000 and reducing it to what  that money was worth in whatever year you received it. Then they substract what you actually receive "B"


----------



## RobA

Tilap61 said:
			
		

> RobA their calculation is A-B.   A is
> the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted*;
> 
> So let's say 100% 360000$ "REDUCED" by CPI every year to the year you actually received your desability payout. So basically they are taking the 360000 and reducing it to what  that money was worth in whatever year you received it. Then they substract what you actually receive "B"



Yes, exactly. The "reduced for every calender year etc..." part means they clearly reduce the $360,000 by the COLA increases every year.

So, to give you a concrete example, I'll use myself. I was rated at 100% in 2008, which was around $260,000. But when you reduce $360,000 by the amount adjusted every year (I. E. COLA increases), it brings the total to about $310,000.

$310,000- $260,00 = $50,000. The formula would work about the same for everyone who got 100%. Regardless of the year, all ppl at a specific % will get the same.

For someone who got an award at 100% in 2015, for example, the calculation would be $360,000 minus every year since the award would be about $350,000 (since it was a much more recent award) and he would have gotten around $300,000 (the size of a 100% award in 2015). 

$350,000 - $300,000 = the same $50,000.

You would find the same formula for all levels. A 50% award should be around  $25,000 no matter what year it was awarded. A 25% around $12,500 and so on.

It's kind of bullshit, because when all is said and done, a soldier who got their award in 2015 will end up getting paid a total of around $360,000 while I will have been paid a total of around $310,000.

The way they SHOULD do it is that everyone gets a COLA top up to their award every year. It would only end up being a few thousand a year , even if you were at 100%, but it would ensure that all vets are treated equally.


----------



## Words_Twice

That's interesting, I just assumed that Veterans Affairs would look at the total amount that the member received as a disability award (for example, $291,000 on a total combined 126% disability),  subtract that figure from the current new maximum disability award amount of $360,000, leaving approximately $70,000 as a top up. Does that make sense to anybody else? Edit: I should add further that the award of 126% was made in 2012, if that has any bearing.


----------



## RobA

That's what i had assumed at first until I saw the bill as it was written. 

VAC's disinterest in clarifying things doesn't help.

With that said, the law is written vaguely enough that it is possible that when VAC gets specific guidance as to how to pay it out, it could be done as you suggest.

It seems unfair that a vet with a injury in any given year will get more in total then a vet given the same award in years prior. 

It seems the very fact that we get a top up at all implies we were underpaid in the first place. If VAC is telling me that I get say, $50,000 in 2017 because I was underpaid in my award initially granted in 2008, then I could just as easily say "yes, and if you had given me the proper amount AT THE TIME I could have invested that $50,000 and it could be worth $XX today." Money has a time value. $50,000 in 2008 is worth quite a bit more then $50,000 in 2017. It seems they're paying us the nominal amount we are owed, but refuse to consider the interest we could have earned (and that the GoC, by dint of not paying it at the time, DID earn) had we been paid properly at the time.

That's an important considsration: this is not a NEW benefit, which would obviously be indexed to the time we recieved it. It's an amendment to an existing benefit that we were already entitled to. They are implicitly saying, by topping it up, that we were underpaid.  So where's the interest? If you or I underpaid our taxes in 2008 to CRA, you can be damned sure we would owe what we owed PLUS interest. Seems unfair to act differently now that the shoe is on the other foot.

Wait and see i guess.


----------



## Words_Twice

Well, I sent a message to VAC through My Account, asking for clarification on how the increase in the Disability Award will be calculated. The response was clear, and most gratifying. The increase will be calculated by subtracting what you received from VAC as a Disability Award from the new maximum award of $360,000. For example, if the member received $290,000 in 2010, the $290,000 will be subtracted from $360,000, giving the member a $70,000 top up. The year the award was received is irrelevant. Very simple, no complex application of COLA to each year past. Hope this helps, I am having a beer!


----------



## Occam

I wouldn't take that as gospel.  Nearly everyone I know who has asked VAC the same question has gotten different answers.  They're flying by the seat of their pants because the bosses haven't told them anything yet.


----------



## Teager

words_twice said:
			
		

> Well, I sent a message to VAC through My Account, asking for clarification on how the increase in the Disability Award will be calculated. The response was clear, and most gratifying. The increase will be calculated by subtracting what you received from VAC as a Disability Award from the new maximum award of $360,000. For example, if the member received $290,000 in 2010, the $290,000 will be subtracted from $360,000, giving the member a $70,000 top up. The year the award was received is irrelevant. Very simple, no complex application of COLA to each year past. Hope this helps, I am having a beer!



Over on CSAT there are members posting there responses from VAC and unfortunately they all differ in regards to calculation or even knowing what the calculation is. The response VAC gave you only shows that there is a lack of communication within there organization and they don't know the correct answers.


----------



## Words_Twice

Without identifying the Veterans Affairs employee, I googled her name, and she is fairly high up in the puzzle factory. Her answer was concise, enough so that I am confident that what she said will happen, will happen!


----------



## Occam

words_twice said:
			
		

> Without identifying the Veterans Affairs employee, I googled her name, and she is fairly high up in the puzzle factory. Her answer was concise, enough so that I am confident that what she said will happen, will happen!



Being higher up in the puzzle factory doesn't necessarily mean they understand what may be happening in another part of the factory.

Going back to the legislation (and as anyone who deals with government knows, if it ain't in the legislation, it don't matter - and I work for the federal government):



> Member or veteran who received disability award
> 
> 100 (1) The Minister must pay to a member or a veteran who received, in whole or in part, a disability award under section 45, 47 or 48 of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accordance with the formula
> 
> A − B
> 
> where
> 
> A - is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted; and
> 
> B - is the amount of the disability award that was payable to the member or the veteran under subsection 52(1) of the Act.



Re: the underlined portion - how are the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act periodically adjusted?

You have to go to Section 94(c) of the Act (and at the top of Schedule 3, it even mentions Section 94(c) as a reference):



> 94 The Governor in Council may make regulations
> 
> (a) respecting the time and manner of making an application for career transition services, rehabilitation services, vocational assistance or compensation under this Act, and respecting the information that is required to accompany the application;
> 
> (b) respecting the time and manner of payment of compensation under this Act;
> 
> (c) providing for the periodic adjustment of the amounts set out in Schedules 1 to 3;



So now you have to refer to the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation *Regulations*, where you will find:



> 63 (1) In this section, basic pension means the monthly basic pension payable under Schedule I to the Pension Act to a Class 1 pensioner without a spouse, common-law partner or child.
> 
> (2) The amounts set out in column 2 of items 2.2, 3 and 4 of Schedule 2 to the Act and all the amounts in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act shall be adjusted on January 1 of every calendar year so that the amount payable for that year equals the product obtained by multiplying
> 
> (a) the amount payable in the preceding calendar year
> 
> by
> 
> (b) the ratio that the basic pension payable in the calendar year bears to the basic pension payable in the preceding calendar year.



The ratio that the basic pension payable in the calendar year bears to the basic pension payable in the preceding calendar year *is mathematically the same as applying the CPI*.

I'm willing to bet that's more concise clearer than what the VAC employee told you.


----------



## Words_Twice

This is the response I received from VAC regarding the calculation of the Disability Award top up:


"Dear Mr. xxxxx,

Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure email services. 

You are correct, the Disability Awards for each year have cost-of-living
adjustments calculated into them. Your previous calculation
was correct, every award received since April 1, 2006 will be
retroactively adjusted to the new maximum award of $360000. 
Correspondence will be forthcoming with the amount you will be
receiving as well as a breakdown of the calculations used to
determine the amount. I apologise for any confusion this may
have caused. 

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact
us again via My VAC Account or our toll free number 1-866-522-2122. 

Sincerely, 

xxxx xxxxxx
Veterans Affairs Canada"

It seems pretty unambiguous to me.


----------



## slayer/raptor

Unfortunately, they aren't very constant in their responses, this is what I got:

"Thank you for using MY VAC account and our secure e-mail services. 

At this time we do not have information on when the reassessed
awards or how they will be issued. Please check back with us closer to April
2017. 

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact
us again via my vac account, or our toll-free number 1-866-522-2122."


----------



## Dave1966

Yup same standard reply I got ,spoke with with my VAC offices client team leader on Friday she gave me the same answer and told me no official documents reguarding this issue have crossed her desk the only thing she could tell me was to keep an eye on my VAC account near the end of March early April .

I hope they hurry up I want to buy a new 4 wheeler 😎


----------



## Armygirl84

Hey I'm not sure if this will apply to every one however, as per below response from VAC it looks like we shall keep an eye out for a "top up" in April. 

Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure E-mail services. 

As of April 1, 2017, the new maximum tax-free Disability Award
amount (98% to 100%) will be $360,000 (up from the 2017 maximum
of $314,723.89). All other Disability Award amounts (1% to 97%)
will also be increased proportionally as a percentage of the
maximum $360,000 amount, e.g. 10% will be increased to $36,000. 

Anyone who received a Disability Award or Death Benefit prior
to April 1, 2017, will be eligible to receive a one-time lump
sum additional payment. This payment represents the total difference
between Disability Award(s) and/or Death Benefit that was paid
between April 1, 2006, and March 31, 2017, and the new amount
which will come into force April 1, 2017, adjusted by Consumer
Price Index for each year back to April 1, 2006 (the New Veterans
Charter came into effect April 1, 2006). 

The department anticipates your adjustment will be released in
April 2017. 

I wouldn't hold my breath tho, we are all too aware of the delays that are experienced with VAC.


----------



## bdcasey916

So just because VAC isn't consistent with anything, they are saying its expected by end of April with my response from them, however their could be times when it will take longer. I love how they don't have any consistency with anything

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure email services.

To calculate the additional payment a new adjusted maximum rate
will be applied to benefit calculations between April 1, 2006
and March 31, 2017. VAC will start with the new maximum of $360,000
on April 1, 2017 and then apply in reverse the annual consumer
price index adjustment to determine the maximum rate that would
have existed each year between April 1, 2006 and March 31, 2017.

If we have your up to date mailing and banking information,
you will most likely receive your payment by the end of April
2017. However, there will be some situations where more information
is needed or where more time will be required to process the
payment. In these situations, once VAC receives all the information
it needs, the payment will be made within two weeks.

Veterans that registered on My VAC Account will be able to view
their letter and “Additional Payment Details Report”. Veterans
with the more complex cases will be able to view their letter
but not the manual calculation report on My VAC Account.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact
us again via My VAC Account or our toll free number 1-866-522-2122.

Sincerely, 

XXXXXX XXX

If I see it by Christmas 2017, I'll be surprised!


----------



## jollyjacktar

You can't say they're not friendly with all the hugs (xxx) in their correspondence.   Probably a ploy to distract from the slow services.


----------



## CombatMacguyver

Tidbit of information from my last conversation w/ VAC:

"Letters" regarding the top-up will _start_ going out Apr 1.
You know that letter saying, essentially; "we're going to give you some money for messing up your body, here are your options."?  
That letter.

Again, it _*STARTS*_ on Apr 1.  That implies it may (read: will) take a while to get everyone's letters out.
*THEN* the wait time to actually receive the money will begin once VAC receives your reply.

Someone said they'd be surprised if they got any top-up before Sept 2017?  You're probably bang-on-target.


----------



## Teager

CombatMacgyver said:
			
		

> Tidbit of information from my last conversation w/ VAC:
> 
> "Letters" regarding the top-up will _start_ going out Apr 1.
> You know that letter saying, essentially; "we're going to give you some money for messing up your body, here are your options."?
> That letter.
> 
> Again, it _*STARTS*_ on Apr 1.  That implies it may (read: will) take a while to get everyone's letters out.
> *THEN* the wait time to actually receive the money will begin once VAC receives your reply.
> 
> Someone said they'd be surprised if they got any top-up before Sept 2017?  You're probably bang-on-target. I have a feeling most letters are done and the send button just has to be pushed come April 1st.



With MY VAC Account the process is faster than waiting for the letter in the mail and mailing back a response


----------



## bdcasey916

I was doing a little 'light' reading of bill C-15 which is the bill to implement the measures of the last years budget, which our top-up falls under. There is a section I have found that will provide clarity on one aspect that no one seems to be sure. I have included the entire portion of the text and bolded the appropriate section, however, please see section 106 as it will state the top up is to be paid as a lump sum. I am not here to start a debate or get anyone upset about this, as on multiple means, Facebook, private conversations, etc, no one seems to have an answer. I am just providing something from the Government in black and white as to how it will be administered.  I firmly believe VAC has a policy in place but are under orders not to talk about it until April 1. I also am a believer in the fact that all the work is currently done and they will provide us with information either via Canada Post or MyVAC within a few days after the date. 
Again, just stating my feelings on how I think VAC is going to deal with this and providing hard copy of the 'formula' and how they are paying. Please see attached link and search section 106 and it will take you directly there

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=8385247

Disability Award and Death Benefit


Definitions


99 The following definitions apply in this section and sections 100 to 111.
Act means the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act. (Loi)
dependent child has the same meaning as in subsection 2(1) of the Act. (enfant à charge)
Minister means the Minister of Veterans Affairs. (ministre)
survivor has the same meaning as in subsection 2(1) of the Act. (survivant)


Member or veteran who received disability award


100 (1) The Minister must pay to a member or a veteran who received, in whole or in part, a disability award under section 45, 47 or 48 of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accordance with the formula
A − B
where

A
    is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted; and

B
    is the amount of the disability award that was payable to the member or the veteran under subsection 52(1) of the Act.


Death of member or veteran before amount paid

(2) If the member or veteran dies before the amount is paid under subsection (1), the Minister must pay that amount, in accordance with section 55 of the Act, to a survivor or a person who was, at the time of the member’s or veteran’s death, a dependent child.

Death of member or veteran before April 1, 2017


101 If a member or a veteran who received, in whole or in part, a disability award under section 45, 47 or 48 of the Act before April 1, 2017 dies before that day, the Minister must pay, in accordance with section 55 of the Act, to a survivor or a person who was, at the time of the member’s or veteran’s death, a dependent child — if that survivor or person is alive on April 1, 2017 — an amount determined in accordance with the formula
A − B
where

A
    is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted; and

B
    is the amount of the disability award that was payable to the member or the veteran under subsection 52(1) of the Act.



Disability award received by survivor or dependent child

102 The Minister must pay, in accordance with section 55 of the Act, to a person who received a disability award under subsection 50(1) or (2) of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accord-ance with the formula
A − B
where

A
    is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted; and

B
    is the amount of the disability award that was payable under subsection 52(1) of the Act.


Death benefit

103 The Minister must pay, in accordance with section 59 of the Act, to a person who received a death benefit under section 57 of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accordance with the formula
A − B
where

A
    is the amount set out in item 3, column 2, of Schedule 2 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the death benefit was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amount set out in item 3, column 2, is periodically adjusted; and

B
    is the amount of the death benefit that was payable under subsection 58(1) of the Act.


Application

104 Sections 100 to 102 apply in respect of each disability award received by or in respect of a member or a veteran.


Amount of award or benefit equal to zero

105 For the purposes of sections 100 to 103, a person is considered to have received a disability award or a death benefit even if the amount that was paid to them was equal to zero.

*Lump sum

106 An amount that is to be paid under any of sections 100 to 103 is to be paid as a lump sum.*


----------



## CombatMacguyver

Fair enough, so that would imply there will be no letters of "how would you like to receive your benefits".  It will simply be paid out as lump sum, asap.

Maybe the letters the VAC employee I spoke to was alluding to are more along the lines of "direct deposit or cheque?" kind of thing.

Either way, I don't expect this to happen quickly.  My experiences with VA seem to transpire over years, not weeks or months.  Maybe I'm just jaded and cynical at this point.


----------



## PuckChaser

CombatMacgyver said:
			
		

> Maybe the letters the VAC employee I spoke to was alluding to are more along the lines of "direct deposit or cheque?" kind of thing.



Probably a letter stating your listed payable disabilities with each year, along with the difference between what you should have gotten, with a final sum and a statement about when you can expect to receive a direct deposit.

As someone stated above, people might end up with the letters after they've already gotten the deposit, similar to MyVAC showing approval for a disability award and weeks later the official letter shows up. I even had my Stage 3 "This will take 16 weeks letter" show up 2 months after it was dated, and 2 weeks later my award was approved online.

Another bigger issue here, is that if VAC knows the details on how they're going to do everything, they should be stating those facts to veterans instead of hiding from them. It proves the culture of deceit and hidden facts from VAC.


----------



## AirDet

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Another bigger issue here, is that if VAC knows the details on how they're going to do everything, they should be stating those facts to veterans instead of hiding from them. It proves the culture of deceit and hidden facts from VAC.



So I'm not the only one who feels like I'm talking to a "used car salesmen". They remind me of the guy who won't look you in the eye when talking to him...


----------



## Teager

The rumour mill says an announcement is coming tomorrow wrt lump sum payment from the Minister.


----------



## Teager

Most questions and answers including calculation now posted by VAC.

veterans.gc.ca/eng/help/faq/disability-award-increase


----------



## thunderbolt

You beat me to it! I was just reading those faq's
Looks like it clears up most peoples questions.


----------



## meni0n

If I wanted to calculate what it would be for a 5% awarded in 2016 it's still confusing on how to actually do that. Wish they provided an example.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Teager said:
			
		

> The rumour mill says an announcement is coming tomorrow wrt lump sum payment from the Minister.


And here it is ...


> The Government of Canada is delivering on its commitment to ensure that Veterans and their families are treated with care, compassion and respect.  Increasing the financial security of disabled Veterans, is the first foundational step in supporting mental health and well-being.
> 
> The Honourable Kent Hehr, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence announced today that, all Veterans with a Disability Award from Veterans Affairs Canada will receive an additional, tax-free, lump sum payment.
> 
> As announced in Budget 2016, the maximum Disability Award is increasing from $314,723.89 to $360,000.  This measure comes into effect on April 1, 2017.
> 
> Intended to recognize the non-economic impacts of a service-related injury or illness such as pain and suffering, the Disability Award is provided on a scale according to the level of disability and is in addition to income support benefits.
> 
> For those who have already received a Disability Award, no application is necessary to receive the additional lump sum payment.  Veterans who received a Disability Award and are getting monthly program benefits from Veterans Affairs Canada, as well as those who received a Disability Award payment within the last two years will automatically get a letter explaining the amount of their additional lump sum payment by mid-April.
> 
> Any Veterans who received a Disability Award more than two years ago and who are not currently receiving monthly program benefits from Veterans Affairs Canada are encouraged to contact the Department immediately to confirm their address and banking information.
> 
> If Veterans would like to manage their information online and receive communication regarding their Disability Award increase along with other benefits and services, they can register for My VAC Account at www.veterans.gc.ca/myVACaccount. Through this on-line service, Veterans will be able to provide information, if required, to expedite the additional lump sum payment. VAC will reimburse eligible Veterans for financial advice on how to manage or invest the money.
> 
> Budget 2016 also provided funding for Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC) Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB) to increase from 75% to 90% of a Veteran’s indexed military salary. This benefit provides financial security by offering income support to Veterans while they are participating in VAC’s Rehabilitation Program or until they reach age 65, whichever comes first. In addition, the enhanced benefit is fully protected against inflation. This means that the existing cap of 2% was removed to keep pace with inflation.
> 
> Quotes
> 
> “It is important that we recognize our ill and injured Veterans. Through Budget 2016, we have worked hard to reopen offices, hire more frontline staff and increase financial benefits for Veterans. I am proud today to announce that every Veteran with a disability award will receive an additional lump sum payment. This means approximately $700 million dollars for 67,000 Veterans which will directly support their financial well-being.”
> 
> The Honourable Kent Hehr, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence
> 
> Quick Facts
> 
> The maximum Disability Award will be increased from $314,723.89 to $360,000 on April 1, 2017. In addition, Death and Detention Benefit amounts will be increased accordingly. This is consistent with the recommendations made by the Veterans Ombudsman and the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.
> 
> The maximum Disability Award lump sum amount will be comparable to or greater than similar non-economic compensation amounts payable in Canada under private and public sectors insurance plans, by the Workers’ Compensation Board or as non-pecuniary damages awarded by Canadian courts.
> 
> Any Veterans who received a Disability Award more than two years ago and who are not currently receiving monthly program benefits from Veterans Affairs Canada are encouraged to contact the Department at 1-866-522-2122 (toll-free), Monday to Friday, 8:30 to 4:30, local time to confirm their address and banking information.
> 
> If Veterans do not update their information now, a letter will be mailed the first week of April asking them to complete and return a Verification of Address and Banking Information form.


----------



## slayer/raptor

I'm still confused, in my case I was at 10% disability in 2015 where I received 30 669.82$ (B) and the 100% was 306 698.20$. So now that the new award has been adjusted, the 2015 100% value is 350 128.13 with 10% being 35 012.81$ (A).

So is my award top up going to be A-B = 4 342.99$

OR:

New award 100% for 2017 is 360 000$ therefore 10% is 36 000$ (C)

So my award would be C-B: 5 330.18$

Any help would be great.


----------



## RobA

The first one. The second example (which is what it should be IMO) doesn't adjust by subtracting the COLA increases.


----------



## Occam

See Q10.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/help/faq/disability-award-increase?utm_source=myvacaccount&utm_medium=broadcast&utm_campaign=da031617


----------



## jtdollah

Is this true? Will the top up be delayed or reduced?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1083919&playlistId=1.3335420&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=s4NiuXm


----------



## Teager

jtdollah said:
			
		

> Is this true? Will the top up be delayed or reduced?
> 
> http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1083919&playlistId=1.3335420&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=s4NiuXm



It's reduced by the CPI so you get the amount that you should have in the year you recieved your award. If all your info is good to go with VAC expect payment sometime in April.


----------



## jtdollah

Teager said:
			
		

> It's reduced by the CPI so you get the amount that you should have in the year you received your award. If all your info is good to go with VAC expect payment sometime in April.



ahhh, I understand now. There's just so much info out there, it makes it a little hard to find the most accurate source.  Fake news, lol.


----------



## slayer/raptor

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> I'm still confused, in my case I was at 10% disability in 2015 where I received 30 669.82$ (B) and the 100% was 306 698.20$. So now that the new award has been adjusted, the 2015 100% value is 350 128.13 with 10% being 35 012.81$ (A).
> 
> So is my award top up going to be A-B = 4 342.99$
> 
> OR:
> 
> New award 100% for 2017 is 360 000$ therefore 10% is 36 000$ (C)
> 
> So my award would be C-B: 5 330.18$
> 
> Any help would be great.



Got my letter from VAC in my online VAC account stating the amount I would be getting. Unfortunately, it is Option A (first one). So the indexed amount minus the amount you actually received.


----------



## AirDet

I guess so many people tried logging in this morning that they crashed the site.

It's good that VAC actually met a timeline... they said we'd receive a letter the beginning of April. They said, payments would be sent out by mid-month. Let's see if they meet that timeline too.


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## PMedMoe

Got my letter dated 02 April saying the money is to be deposited within two weeks....here's hoping....


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## Rifleman62

Got my letter on My VAC Account. Site was crashed for awhile.


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## jollyjacktar

Seems as if I will be seeing money too in a couple of weeks.  Will help with the tax bill this year, yay.  In one hand and out in the other.  The House always wins it's true.


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## geekgirly

I guess the notification letters might be "starting" to go out on April 1st, as I haven't received anything in MyVAC inbox yet?


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## slayer/raptor

geekgirly said:
			
		

> I guess the notification letters might be "starting" to go out on April 1st, as I haven't received anything in MyVAC inbox yet?



Are you expecting a large amount? (Obviously don't need to answer) But the title of my letter was something along the lines of "Lump sum payment of less than 18000$" So maybe there is a separate letter that will go out later if its for a higher payment.


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## PuckChaser

Nothing in my inbox, and no ability other than sending a secure message to tell them I did what they wanted and confirmed my address/direct deposit info.

Love the spin job done by the Liberal PR team. Any news release should have read: Payments up to $360,000 retroactive (but not really) to 2006. They nickel and dimed Veterans to avoid paying out more money, on a budget that had a $30B CAD deficit. A true retroactive payment would be giving me $1500 more than what I'm likely to get using those calculations posted, and that's with 2 claims totalling 10%.

100% disabled vet getting $250,000 in 2006 should be getting $110,000 top up, instead will only get $47,674.20.


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## slayer/raptor

Yeah I agree, mine is short of about 1500$ as well of what I was expecting. It was really poorly phrased when they originally announced it.


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## PuckChaser

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Yeah I agree, mine is short of about 1500$ as well of what I was expecting. It was really poorly phrased when they originally announced it.



Deliberately so. Make it seem better than it actually is, pure used car salesman fine print.


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## geekgirly

"Are you expecting a large amount? (Obviously don't need to answer) But the title of my letter was something along the lines of "Lump sum payment of less than 18000$" So maybe there is a separate letter that will go out later if its for a higher payment."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not quite sure how much to expect, but your assumption would make sense considering the title of your letter.


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## TCM621

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Yeah I agree, mine is short of about 1500$ as well of what I was expecting. It was really poorly phrased when they originally announced it.


It was phrased exactly how they wanted it phrased. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Teager

For those who haven't recieved any notice I have read elsewhere that VAC was sending the letters in batches of 2500 vets at a time so my guess is this whole week people will be notified.


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## Kokanee

geekgirly said:
			
		

> "Are you expecting a large amount? (Obviously don't need to answer) But the title of my letter was something along the lines of "Lump sum payment of less than 18000$" So maybe there is a separate letter that will go out later if its for a higher payment."



Got mine today and my topup was about $35k, so looks like they are all being mailed/sent at the same time.


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## Corvin

Teager said:
			
		

> For those who haven't recieved any notice I have read elsewhere that VAC was sending the letters in batches of 2500 vets at a time so my guess is this whole week people will be notified.



Any thoughts on what order the batches are going out in?  I haven't received anything yet from a payout in 2007.


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## Lightguns

Kokanee said:
			
		

> Got mine today and my topup was about $35k, so looks like they are all being mailed/sent at the same time.



Just got my notice today as well.  Nice, as last week, I won my appeal on my 90's injuries.  Car paid, truck paid, house is will be next now.  Finally, set up nicely for retirement.  God is good......


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## Lightguns

Corvin said:
			
		

> Any thoughts on what order the batches are going out in?  I haven't received anything yet from a payout in 2007.



My NVC covered injury was 2013 and I just got notice.


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## Rifleman62

Funds were in my bank account this morning vice mid April.


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## PMedMoe

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Funds were in my bank account this morning vice mid April.



Mine too!


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## PuckChaser

Lightguns said:
			
		

> My NVC covered injury was 2013 and I just got notice.



Piecemeal approach then, I have a 2013 claim and still radio silence.


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## CampCricket

Letter yesterday... money in the bank today... looks like VAC is on top of things for a change.


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## Gunner98

Today, I received my letter through "VAC My account" requesting confirmation of Address, Banking and Direct Deposit.  Uploaded completed documents.  No $ amount mentioned in correspondence.


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## TCM621

CampCricket said:
			
		

> Letter yesterday... money in the bank today... looks like VAC is on top of things for a change.


Mine too. Pleasantly surprised. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## thunderbolt

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Today, I received my letter through "VAC My account" requesting confirmation of Address, Banking and Direct Deposit.  Uploaded completed documents.  No $ amount mentioned in correspondence.



I got the same thing this morning. Asked for VAC1117 to be filled out updating banking info and address. Funny thing is I did all that over a month ago through MyVAC online. Guess I'll wait a little longer for my money...at least it is coming!
All that and a claim I put in last August just went from Level 3 to COMPLETE, hopefully in my favor!!!


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## Corvin

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Today, I received my letter through "VAC My account" requesting confirmation of Address, Banking and Direct Deposit.  Uploaded completed documents.  No $ amount mentioned in correspondence.



Got the same today.


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## jollyjacktar

The money wasn't there earlier in the day but by the end of the day, it was.  Revenue Canada will  be so pleased to see that.


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## Lightguns

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> The money wasn't there earlier in the day but by the end of the day, it was.  Revenue Canada will  be so pleased to see that.



Tax free isn't it?


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## jollyjacktar

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Tax free isn't it?



It is, but the back pay I received last fall apparently wasn't taxed enough, so I have a Trump sized huuuuge tax bill this year.  In one hand and right out the other and I'll still be under.  It makes me not as keen to see what back pay will come when we get sorted out back to 1 Apr 2014.  So to sum up, I am thankful that this has come as it did as I really needed it.


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## Lightguns

Ahhh, back pay, I don't miss those days.  Seeing your tax bill jump by 6000 bucks all for an extra 15 bucks a month in your bank.


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## AirDet

I'm pleased to report that my top-up arrived yesterday in the bank. That was fast.


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## Rifleman62

You don't think this is Hush Money do you?  ;D


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## jollyjacktar

I am sure it is hoped that some feathers might be unruffled within the veteran communities.  I will say that this bit of carrot is better than the stick we were getting before.


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## AirDet

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> You don't think this is Hush Money do you?  ;D



Shhhh. Don't tell anyone...

Seriously, it sure put smiles on a lot of people here.


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## thunderbolt

Are there any others who haven't heard anything? All I got was a form to confirm address and banking information...


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## geekgirly

I've also only received the form to confirm my mailing address/bank account information.  Now radio silence. I guess we just have to be patient.  :-\


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## jitterbug

I received my letter and govt of canada cheque yesterday...


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## thunderbolt

Just received a phonecall because I emailed to ensure they received the banking verification and was told expect to see it in a week or two..


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## Old Sweat

Received the letter and the money has been deposited.


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## Ferrous

I'm waiting as well, but I've been repaying an over-payment from my ELB off of my PIA/CIA, so I figured I'd be later while they calculate the changes.


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## OldSolduer

Got a letter today.


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## PuckChaser

They wanted address confirmation despite having RX'd benefits less than 2 years ago. Still waiting on a letter stating what I will be receiving as a top up, and when it will show up.


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## Corvin

Updated my info via the My VAC site last Friday, got my letter with an amount today.

Will update once I get the money in the bank.


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## Gunner98

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Today, I received my letter through "VAC My account" requesting confirmation of Address, Banking and Direct Deposit.  Uploaded completed documents.  No $ amount mentioned in correspondence.



Received a secure email from VAC this evening with amount, should see deposit in 7 days. Satisfied with the amount.


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## geekgirly

geekgirly said:
			
		

> I've also only received the form to confirm my mailing address/bank account information.  Now radio silence. I guess we just have to be patient.  :-\



Patience is indeed a virtue!  Got my letter on Friday morning with the amount.  Now just waiting for the deposit.


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## bdcasey916

Patience is indeed a virture.  I still have not even received my letter and when I was speaking with them on Thursday afternoon, the woman on the phone eluded to the fact that I had been forgotten about as there was nothing even done in their system yet


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## Lightguns

Well, that's gone, may I have another?


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## Corvin

Corvin said:
			
		

> Updated my info via the My VAC site last Friday, got my letter with an amount today.
> 
> Will update once I get the money in the bank.



Money showed up in the bank today.


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## Gunner98

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Received a secure email from VAC this evening with amount, should see deposit in 7 days. Satisfied with the amount.



Deposit received and allocated to renos.


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## PuckChaser

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> They wanted address confirmation despite having RX'd benefits less than 2 years ago. Still waiting on a letter stating what I will be receiving as a top up, and when it will show up.



Deposited the other day. Still have no idea why I needed to reconfirm address and info. Typical VAC I guess.


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## me.me

For those who still haven't gotten their increase:

I still hadn't received anything from VAC, so I sent them a message via My VAC Account asking where my money was.  The next day it was direct deposited into my account (same account my ELB goes into).  Didn't get a reply from them, and I never received the letter stating it was going to be deposited.  And FWIW - the amount I got was 5 figures.


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## PMedMoe

me.me said:
			
		

> And FWIW - the amount I got was 5 figures.



 :

Top up depends on what you received as an initial settlement.  YMMV...

Mine was six figures....but there was a decimal in there... $XXXX.xx.    ;D


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## Ferrous

I sent a message in Sunday afternoon. Haven't heard back... so waiting as fast as I can.


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