# US Army M110 Sniper Rifle Video



## tomahawk6 (29 Oct 2007)

This is a new rifle that is being fielded next month.

http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/20071026_rc_m110sniperrifle


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## MedTechStudent (31 Oct 2007)

See there is something about the def......."20 rd. Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle"......that just makes you feel warm inside.

Very cool, thanks for the video!


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## DesertVengeance (31 Oct 2007)

now if they could only start employing snipers properly they'd be set.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System


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## midget-boyd91 (31 Oct 2007)

DesertVengeance said:
			
		

> now if they could only start employing snipers properly they'd be set.



Meaning?? ?


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## MG34 (31 Oct 2007)

DesertVengeance said:
			
		

> now if they could only start employing snipers properly they'd be set.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System



Yes please do explain ???


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## DesertVengeance (31 Oct 2007)

Well some of what i know comes from various articles... some second hand through friends... and a little from a marine i know who was a sniper for a tour in iraq.  But essentially they've been having HUGE problems with various sniper dets being attached to regular infantry companies.  Half the time they end up being employed merely as squad marksman the other half they are employed as snipers but under the direction of infantry officers who have no experience or training in the employment of snipers.  ie.  my buddy got sent to a position that HAD been an excellent overwatch position but through a series of events had become known to the insurgents as a high threat area... so they were quite careful to avoid it through use of cover thereby nullifying his overwatch.  When this was brought up, it was dismissed because the officers all thought that this was the best spot to put a sniper.  

In addition they have been having real problems getting permission to act independant of their responsible units.  As in a sniper team is most effective when they are turned out to find their own shooting positions, recce their own targets and make their own target assesments.  Sure they can be valuable support elements... but the crux of what they are is 'lone wolf' type hunters.  Which is a problem because that sort of individualism goes against the whole army ethos of team and all that.  A lot of times my buddy had credible intel for missions that would have been perfect for a sniper to execute... but was denied in favour of sending larger assets out which in turn scared off the insurgents driving them deeper into cover as it were.  

He was also quite frustrated that he was not being permitted to engage in any anti-IED actions.  He knew of a couple areas where there had been repeated ambushes and IED strikes.  He wanted to go camp out and nail them while they were setting up... but these requests were denied in favour of letting a larger force patrol with the snipers in support.  He said it was the reason he got out.  He was tired of seeing guys die that if he had been allowed to do his job... he might have been able to prevent.  He said most of the guys in his unit (snipers... i'm not quite sure how they were organized or attached) felt the same way.  That was about a year and a half ago... and i've only seen what he said repeated in various pseudo military press like SOF and so forth.  

I'm definitely no expert but i have always been interested in military tactics and history since i was a kid... and snipers have always been of particular interest because of the huge impact they can make with such a small force.  I could never do it... don't have the patience... but I've spent enough time around/talking to them to have a pretty good idea of not how they should be employed but how they could be employed and from what i've heard i'm not far off in saying they are hugely valuable resource that right now is being terribly mismanaged.

(kinda like how our recce platoon was driving around on 4 wheelers and wondering why they kept getting lit up=)


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## MG34 (1 Nov 2007)

Yes I read the SOF articles as well, they would have you believe that there is an epidemic going on while the reality of it is different. Any of the actice US Army/USMC and ARNG snipers I know have had nothing but a positive tour as far as their trade goes. It's all spin and what you chose to believe I suppose, add to that a few disgruntled troopers who are pissed off at thier lot in life , all of a sudden there is a problem that never existed in the first place.
   As for the M110 SASS, it's nothing new and has been in the US Army inventory for a while now, except it is now a general issue weapon. From what I have heard the bolt guns are staying, the M110 is to agument them much the same way we use the AR10T with TAC 50/T-wolf teams.


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## DesertVengeance (1 Nov 2007)

see a ranger friend said sort of echoed what you said... the snipers in his unit were all happy as a pig in shit.  But he also alluded to army/marine snipers being whored out to units that just didn't know how to use them.  I liken it to our recce platoons being attached to LAV companies...  they're just not being weilded as effectively as their training would allow.  I mean it's not a new problem it's been around for as long as there have been snipers attached to regular units.  

as far as the M110... i have a few friends that have tried it... and it may just be their instinct to stick with what works but they also had some tech issues which they related and i really don't have enough experience to quantify but the general consensus was that while they thought the M110 was definitely a good rifle... they still preferred their M21s.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M21_Sniper_Weapon_System


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## tomahawk6 (1 Nov 2007)

You mean the M24 I think.


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## DesertVengeance (1 Nov 2007)

nope M21.  They seem to be popular for those that can get them.  I know the marines tend to stick with the M24 (whether it's preference or mandatory use i couldn't say)... but I know the M21 is popular in ranger units and some army dets.


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## MG34 (1 Nov 2007)

Well considering theM21 has been out of service for quite some time and the fact that it was a mediocre system to begin with, it's no surprise that those issued with M14 DMR rebuilds (NOT M21 Rifles)are welcoming the M110. It is not as consistantly accurate as a bolt gun, but will hold min. of hadji all day long.


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## tomahawk6 (1 Nov 2007)

The Marines have solved the issue that caused the Army to get an entirely new weapon. They were able to tweak the M24 with an external magazine. Naturally the Army wasnt able to do this because our M24 was a bit different than the Marine version. Thus the need for a large magazine semi automatic rifle.


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## DesertVengeance (1 Nov 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Well considering theM21 has been out of service for quite some time and the fact that it was a mediocre system to begin with, it's no surprise that those issued with M14 DMR rebuilds (NOT M21 Rifles)are welcoming the M110. It is not as consistantly accurate as a bolt gun, but will hold min. of hadji all day long.


uhhhhh.... ok.  The M21 was 'officially replaced' but that doesn't mean it's no longer in service, hell look it up if you don't believe me.  But I guess when a friend tells me guys in his unit prefer the M21... he's just full of it.  Cuz he wouldn't know the difference between his M14 and his friends M21.  Like I said before... some guys i've talked to or heard about second hand liked the M110 but many still prefer their own rifle.


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## 1feral1 (1 Nov 2007)

DesertVengeance said:
			
		

> Well some of what i know comes from various articles...



Need I say more.



Wes


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## GAP (1 Nov 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Need I say more.
> Wes



Yes you do, then I can say I heard it from a friend who read it in an article!!  ;D


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## 1feral1 (1 Nov 2007)

:rofl:

Wes


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## medaid (1 Nov 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> Yes you do, then I can say I heard it from a friend who read it in an article!!  ;D



that's dope! :rofl: 

But you know what would be even funnier?  "I heard it from a friend who read it on a forum, about a guy who read it in an article once!"


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## AIC_2K5 (1 Nov 2007)

Looks mysteriously similar to the SPR.


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2007)

USMC bought a shitload of the Mk11 Mod1 rifles they aren't sold on the M40A3 either...





which is bascially a Mk11 Mod0 rifle with a URX rail as opposed to the FF RAS. (somewhere I have a pic I took of a Mk11)

The M110 is pretty much a Mk11Mod1 with a Flashhider (the Mk11 series has a tgt crown and no flash hider) both have gas blocks that incorporate a Suppressor mount from a back over barrel suppressor



 The M24 (and yes I was briefly issued one - and I stole the box tag  ;D) is a long action, which while makes for a .300WM rechamber an option - sucks for det. mag.

SPR/Mk12 is a 5.56mm SOCOM only system 


The M21 is a POS - long long gone - the USMC breifly played with the XM-25 - a modernized version it too died a well deserved death.  The M14 DRM guns where a stop gap measure - many were issued with 1 (yes ONE) mag due to lack of parts etc.



I have to ask DesertVengence - Tacsit is that you???


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## DesertVengeance (2 Nov 2007)

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_rifle_m21.php

morons.  

the M14s are still fairly widely issued... but LIKE I SAID.  Some unit still have M21s and some shooters still prefer them.

they still use them in sniper schools as well.

I love how you just sort of pick and choose elements of what i wrote to support your pre-dispositions about me.  

So I suppose you've never learned anything from an article?  You only learn things first hand... cuz you guys are in REAL soldiers.  

Like I said before (which is becoming a recurring theme)  I know some things first hand (limited but when i go to the states I take full advantage of the pletheura of firing ranges) some things passed on from friends with first hand knowledge... other things passed on from friends who've had information disseminated to them.

But since you guys are so much smarter i'm sure you'll find some way to try and discredit what i'm saying.

anyways I found this was a decent review of the M110
http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,146717,00.html

In any case... while the M110 does look like it's come out ahead... something about it just doesn't sit well with me.  Then again if i had a choice i'd be humping this around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_PSG1


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## George Wallace (2 Nov 2007)

I think you may have been better off had you checked your ATTITUDE at the door.  You may find yourself back on the way out that door if you don't sort it our soon.

Just some friendly advice right now, as your ATTITUDE has been noted and it hasn't given you the credibility that you think it has.  Your ATTITUDE has in fact given us all the opposite impression and we will not put up with it much longer.  Calling us morons doesn't help your case, especially when you are addressing weapons experts and others who have very extensive familiarity with weapons.  You may be advised to read the Rules of Conduct for this site again and familiarize yourself on how this site operates.  Your next steps will be up the WARNING SYSTEM.

George
Army.ca Staff


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## MG34 (2 Nov 2007)

Well I heard from a "friend" in the "JTF NINJASNIPER Department" that the PSG1 is a piece of crap rifle that failed pretty much every cold weather and harsh enviroment testing done to it. It looks pretty on the ange and on a roof top in the city, but once you take it to the mud and crud of the battlefield it will seize up. The PSG1 was never intended to leave the city, it is a police /anti terrorist marksman rifle, not a combat weapon....just say'n. 
   In my experience with the SR25 and Psg1 both suppressed and not both will not shoot consistantly as a bolt gun such as the PGWTI T-wolf,USMC M40A3/A4 , or a good M24SWS, even I'm sad to say the Accuraccy International AWP held it's own vs the Psg1, of course the shooter has alot to do with it but on average the PSG1 was second place to one or more of these rifles.


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2007)

DesertVengeance said:
			
		

> http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_rifle_m21.php
> 
> morons.
> 
> ...



 :

MG34 gave you some pretty good advice on the PSG1 -- back in the early 1990's Hk wanted 5k to replace a BARREL on the PSG1 - they go south around the 5k mark, and give the sticker shock, accuracy issues, poor reliability its not a great gun for people in green.   

  I'm futher willing to bet you've never set foot in Iraq, thus your reporting old wives tales.   I've also shot both the M24 and the M110 (and Mk11 series) - so I'm willing to bet that that gives me 3/3 more experience than you on this issue (Iraq, M24 and Mk11/M110).

  As for your firing range experience in the US - big whipty fricken do.  I certainly hope you don't think your alone in people who train in the US as well.  Like anything knowledge (practical knowledge) is imparted by doing -- there are a lot of good shooters on both sides of the border who shoot KD range stuff -- however their is a big difference in operations shooting and the requirements thereof.  
  I've shot some sweet AMU done M14NM guns -- however its a one day 100rds gun -- after that it needs to be rebedded and rebuilt by an AMU armorer.


But then again - I'm just a moron...


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## Koenigsegg (2 Nov 2007)

Sorry to sidetrack for a second.  But I know the PSG-1 and even the MSG-90 were meant for Law enforcement, There is pretty much nothing to argue there.  But in terms of semi automatic sniper rifles, is it not one of, if not the most accurate?  (My knowledge of this rifle is a few years old, forgive me).  I know being the most accurate of a bunch of semi auto rifles may not be saying much, But is my information incorrect, no matter how outdated?

Even in German use you will see the GSG-9 using it, but never (from the limited knowledge I have) the KSK.  Totally different requirements, totally different environments.

(Edited for deeply saddening mistakes...like a missing word, a random quotation mark .  I think I'm gunna cry now...)


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2007)

PSG-1 WAS one of the most accurate semi-auto's back when the M14 and M21 where the benchmark for an autoloader...

  The SR25 (C. Reed Knight II and Eugene Stoner) proved that a sub minute semi auto was an option.


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## Koenigsegg (2 Nov 2007)

Okey dokey.  So we're talking the eighties then.
Entered service around or during 1985, no?  Kinda puts things into prespective.  For some reason I keep thinking it is more recent.

I haven't heard much about the SR25 (besides this thread).  But of course, I am not in the military or law enforcement circles.  So could you tell me what you mean by "sub minute"?
Would that be the accuracy of the rifle, as in, less than 1 MOA?  Excuse my ignorance.


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2007)

Rgr on the sub moa discription...

SR-25 has had teathing issues like anything else - a unit had some NCO's return in person a few of the early guns in the 90's.  SASS showed the AR10 and other platforms are eons behind the KAC guns.


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## Koenigsegg (2 Nov 2007)

Interesting.
So after the years of refinement, it seems like the Army went the right way with the XM110.

Natural progression I suppose though, since the Navy and Marines have it.  If it was a bad weapon I guess the first branch to get it would be the example showing the others why not to adopt it.


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2007)

Keep in mind I was accused of being a KAC shill when I was in the CF...  The fact KAC gave us a number or parts for free was ignored

 The early guns with the 24" barrels offered nothing more than the 20" barrel in the terms of accuracy and ballistics (of course the CF choses a 24" AR10T barrel due to the fact it effectively ruled out the KAC gun, and some other internal pork barrel politicing...)   My KAC guns shoot rings around my AR10T(and the KAC mags also work - WOW)
  
  The fact is KAC learned a lot of cold hard lessons with the SR-25 early guns - lessons several companies are still (Armalite) refusing to accept.  Its not that the AR10T is a piece of shit - its just a good 10 years behind the curve.  DPMS have fragile barrel nuts and other parts issues - and they went with the KAC mag as they wanted hassle free issues (maybe the junk internals should have been fixed too)

I wont say the M110 is god's gift to the system.  7.62mm gas guns cannot be run like their 5.56mm brother  - they are better off for spotter and PL DM guns - with people who will have a higher round count going with a good 5.56mm DM gun like the USMC's SAM-R, or USSOC's Mk12 (SPR) - or even the 16" Mk12 Recce rifles (a personal fav).

Hk417 should be interesting - and if KAC unrolls the upscale PDW monolithic platforms it will also add another variable.


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