# CFMG and SQ courses



## Zombie (30 Apr 2005)

Do MED Techs take the SQ course after BMQ? I've come across information that says they do and other information that says they don't.


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## sHoGo (30 Apr 2005)

Depends on how lucky you get.  My course started a month after BMQ and I didnt have to do it, however all the reserves are coming in now and there isnt suppose to be another english QL3 course after this summer for around a year so yes people coming from BMQ will do it.  Army Navy and Airforce Med techs all.


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## Zombie (1 May 2005)

So it sounds like you must do it anyway, whether it is before or after you QL3? That's good enough for me, my question was really whether or not MED tech recruits had to take it at all. My preference is to take it, so the when is less important. After BMQ would be nice, but if it's mandatory then the timing is moot IMO.

I read on these boards that the QL5 usually takes about 5 years to get, is that still the case? Can it be obtained in less time? Also, to apply for SAR Tech, do you need to have your QL5 or can you just apply after 4 years in the Forces?

Another (probably dumb) question: is there a QL4? I've read about QL3 and 5, but never come across a QL4.


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## thorbahn (1 May 2005)

I've never heard of QL5, (although I'm new), but as far as I know QL4 courses are Driver's, Comms, Command post tech, etc..


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## Pte. Bloggins (1 May 2005)

The QL's are different for every trade as far as I know.

QL3 is everyone's trade course.
The QL4 courses you described aren't the same for all, I know for example Sig Op QL4s are considered OJT at the unit. For example, we get a driver course before going on our 3s to drive the LSVW, and a Comms course wouldn't be too useful to us now would it.
Some trades have QL5s, and again, it's more advanced trades training as far as I've seen. 

As a side note, there's actually a course called "command post tech"? That's awesome. Would one of the PO's be making coffee for the Duty O? I thought that was strictly part of a Sig Op's job description.  ;D

Not sure if that helped make the confusion worse


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## aesop081 (1 May 2005)

If you want to add to the confusion..my trade has no QL3...............


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## MED_BCMC (2 May 2005)

Zombie et al.

Med Techs will complete an SQ after BMQ. Local Fd Ambs have decided that Med Techs will continue to do the SQ.

Reserve Med Techs do not do a QL5. QL3, QL4, QL6a, QL6B. But then again, everything is currently changing, so... wait out.


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## medicineman (2 May 2005)

Thus far, Reg Force Med Tech QL4 doesn't exist as such anymore - it was your OJT package (the big orange book you had to get signed off).  It was a formal course for me because I was in a Fd Amb at the time, but those in clinical units just did it at work.  Drv Wheeled, Comms, etc are common qualifications, not your 4's.  I guess now, MCSP is your 4's if there was to be one.

     Back to the SQ - I take it from what I've read here then that it is required for Reg Force Med Techs, regardless of environment and unit posted too??  Just checking - have my boss bugging me to find out and am getting a wide variety of answers.

MM


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## Zombie (3 May 2005)

Thanks for all the info guys, it helps out a lot. 

In the Reg Force, are there any restrictions as to how much training you can take within a given time period?


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## Armymedic (3 May 2005)

Forgive me for any inaccuracy as I am not 100% in the loop with this, but Reg Force training goes as follows...

Basic, St Jean
QL 3, CFHSA Borden
OJT, driving, comms, BTLS done at unit level
QL5,
PLQ
QL6A
PA Course,

As far as I know regular force medics do not do an SQ (They should, IMHO, but they don't)


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## medicineman (3 May 2005)

That's what I'm trying to get clear - pretty much any other trade (green anyway) is supposed to do an SQ between Basic and DP1 or shortly after DP1 (or whatever the term is this week).   I too think they should be done by Med Techs, though the way we think it should be and what happens in reality rarely corelate.  Maybe a direct question then - Are Reg Force Med Techs required to do the SQ?

MM


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## Zombie (3 May 2005)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Maybe a direct question then - Are Reg Force Med Techs required to do the SQ?



I'm hoping this is a requirement, as I would like to take the SQ course before proceeding to MOC training.



			
				Armymedic said:
			
		

> Forgive me for any inaccuracy as I am not 100% in the loop with this, but Reg Force training goes as follows...
> 
> Basic, St Jean
> QL 3, CFHSA Borden
> ...



This is great info -- I was wondering if there was any way you could attach approximate timelines to it, as far as when one can expect to obtain these courses throughout their careers. Like QL5 usually after 4 years, QL6A usually after 5 years, etc. Generally speaking of course, as I realize that it will be different for everyone and that circumstances change.

Also, anyone have any thoughts on my questions above regarding training required prior to applying for SAR Tech?


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## medicineman (3 May 2005)

Training for SAR - take a dive course to make sure you won't have problems later on, Mountain Ops if you can, and taking any medical course that comes down the pipe.  Basically pad your resume with like minded courses and maybe some volunteer work.  Oh yeah, that really important thing - GET REALLY FIT.

MM


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## Zombie (3 May 2005)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Training for SAR - take a dive course to make sure you won't have problems later on, Mountain Ops if you can, and taking any medical course that comes down the pipe.   Basically pad your resume with like minded courses and maybe some volunteer work.   Oh yeah, that really important thing - GET REALLY FIT.
> 
> MM



A few friends have been urging me to get my PADI certification and go diving with them, so maybe I will take them up on the offer and get some experience beforehand. I also plan to take a few skydiving jumps this summer, I figure that experience will be invaluable as well. As far as volunteering, I've just joined the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary and have the initial training this weekend, it sounds like a lot of fun while getting great skills and experience. Getting fit will take some work, but who's complaining!!! Thanks for the advice!


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## Air Force Medic (10 Nov 2005)

I've searched but still have not found a definitive answer, so please have patience with me. I am not a military member, I took this name for a girl going through basic. She has just finished her basic and starts her Medic training in January. She still does not know when her SQ starts, and St. Jean cannot tell her. My question is this. Do medic's do the SQ training?  Would she be taking it just after her trades course?  If it is 10 weeks long that doesn't leave enough time to take it before.  We were hoping to have her home for a celebration before her trades course.


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## Armymedic (10 Nov 2005)

I believe if medics take the course at all, she'd take it before her trades course. As far as I know, med techs are not "army", hence they do not require to do SQ.

But I am not 100% sure.


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## swanita (20 Nov 2005)

I could be wrong but i'm under the impression that ALL trades to up to SQ & then go onto their trades courses.


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## Pte_Martin (20 Nov 2005)

swanita said:
			
		

> I could be wrong but i'm under the impression that ALL trades to up to SQ & then go onto their trades courses.


 I think your right. When i did my Sq (2 years ago) there were medics on the course


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2005)

All trades for which the army is the managing authority have to do SQ.  navy trades and air force trades do not. I may be wrong but med tech is managed by the army.


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## Armymedic (20 Nov 2005)

Med Techs are not Army...

Reg F Med Tech are not "required" to do SQ course. CFMSS send a number on courses over the last couple years to fill thier time during PAT. 

This info is also confirmed first hand with 4 Ptes I have working with me last week. 1 did SQ while on PAT, the remainder did not.


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

Any trades posted to Gagetown, an Army enviornment, are being sent on SQs here. Some of my Pte's/Cpls had it before reporting for work and some didn't. Those that haven't yet had it are currently on it (with Medics/RMS/Sigs/RCRs etc) and more are slated for SQs in the new year. This course is akin to the 'Air Force Indoctrination course' (which I did when posted to the AF) and the 'Sea Enviornmental' course that I did when I got posted to Halifax. The SQ course is not dependant upon your trade or the colour of uniform you wear, but rather is dependant upon whether you are/will serve on an Army base. It seems to be becoming the norm here in Gagetown, and the lists of pers on Base of any trade without the qual are rapidly shrinking.


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## Cansky (20 Nov 2005)

I have had a number of ptes posted in since I arrived here in Gagetown 2 years ago none have gone on SQ in Gagetown since arrival and few even have SQ from prior to getting here.


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> I have had a number of ptes posted in since I arrived here in Gagetown 2 years ago none have gone on SQ in Gagetown since arrival and few even have SQ from prior to getting here.


Well, if they're in Gagetown I'd wager it's coming. The zero trades have priority for the courses but for the past 2 that have been run, they have topped up with the other trades on base without the qual. There is at least one medic on the current SQ (not yet posted to a Base) who may be coming your way after completion. We have been advised at Supply to expect all our non-qualified pers to be departing on SQ courses over the next couple of years, as it is becoming the new "Land Enviornmental/LLQ" standard for anyone serving with the army. 2RCR also just ran an SQ on behalf of LFAA TC in an attempt to get more people out there this qualification. This course is quickly ramping up.


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## George Wallace (20 Nov 2005)

Actually, a couple of years ago, the policy came out that all personnel, regardless of Element, if Posted to a Land Base would do the Cbt Arms JLC and Jr NCO Crse.  I am not surprised to hear that it also pertains to the SQ Crse.


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Med Techs are not Army...
> 
> Reg F Med Tech are not "required" to do SQ course. CFMSS send a number on courses over the last couple years to fill thier time during PAT.
> 
> This info is also confirmed first hand with 4 Ptes I have working with me last week. 1 did SQ while on PAT, the remainder did not.



Fair enough, i was not sure which command was   the managing authority for med tech .

That being said, the last breif i got from the sr nco's who went to AMOR was this:

All MOC's for which land force command was the managing authority were required to do SQ, regardless of individual DEU assignment.
All personel, regardless of DEU assignment, who were   going to be employed in LFC units were to get SQ


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> All MOC's for which land force command was the managing authority were required to do SQ, regardless of individual DEU assignment.
> All personel, regardless of DEU assignment, who were   going to be employed in LFC units were to get SQ


This is also what I have been told, except that it was going to be a requirement for all personnel who are employed in a posn supporting Land Ops; therefore I assume it will also be applicaple to the Medics serving with Health Services in posns on Army Bases supporting Land Ops.


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## Armymedic (20 Nov 2005)

Oh the confusion of it all... ???

I have heard similar info ref the SQ courses here in Petawawa as well. Exact info: anyone who is posted into Pet after July 2002 regardless of element will have to do SQ. I have not yet heard any indication that Med Techs are required to do this training. But I will attempt to confirm with Tng later this week.

I will believe it all when there is 1 CFH pers on SQ here.



			
				aesop081 said:
			
		

> Fair enough, i was not sure which command was   the managing authority for med tech .
> All personel, regardless of DEU assignment, who were   going to be employed in LFC units were to get SQ



We fall under ADM Hr-Mil, which means medical pers are not LFC, Navy or Air Force.


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> We fall under ADM Hr-Mil, which means medical pers are not LFC, Navy or Air Force.



ACK

now, since 2 FD Amb is an LFC unit, i can see being required to do SQ as a med tech.  Would this apply to 1 CFH ?  Is 1 CFH an LFC unit ?

If all pers posted to petawawa are to do SQ, what about 427 THS ?  Air force MOCs are neither managed by LFC or employed in LFC units .....


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

I suspect that with the new Command structure, ie Atlantic Command, this will all become very muddled. Possibly, an Army Base will actually be considered an Army base under whichever command, and all pers serving in it will be treated in the same manner/require the same pre-requisites/fitness tests/common standards without belonging to 'someone else.' I personally have found that the denigration of the CF into sub-commands of commands has done little to improve communication or standards. Perhaps the new command structure will address that and no-body will be left out in their own world, but rather bring back all elements of one Base into the large Team that it should be.


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## Armymedic (20 Nov 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> now, since 2 FD Amb is an LFC unit, i can see being required to do SQ as a med tech.   Would this apply to 1 CFH ?   Is 1 CFH an LFC unit ?



Ah, but as mentioned, we are not LFC, we are OPCOM (or is it OPCON, I am so confused   ???) to 2 Brigade. 

But I can see that as well and IMHO more army training is not a bad thing, just will make us better at our job. As for 1 CFH, they support the army, they do very similar things (DART, Operations foriegn and domestic) as those in the Brigde med units...so are they under those same direction as well? I am just speculating. Perhaps someone like Gunner98 could clarify the C2 relationships.

Like I said earlier I am not 100% sure, and have not heard anything to the effect that we would have to put people on the course.

So it appears to me the answer to the title question is:

Nope.


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> So it appears to me the answer to the title question is:
> Nope.


Ahhh. +1  The clearest answer yet, and probably the most accurate as well!!


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> So it appears to me the answer to the title question is:
> 
> Nope



Agreed.

I know we have done this subject to death but the last few posts   create an interesting discussion on who should get the SQ course and when.

IMHO this isnt much of an issue for combat arms trades but on the "purple trade" side, you could, conceivably have someone never working for the army, get promoted to MWO and posted to an army field unit.   Will we send senior ranks to SQ ?   How well would it go over ?   In the same breath, is it time/resource effective putting someone trough SQ based soley on his/her MOC ?


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> IMHO this isnt much of an issue for combat arms trades but on the "purple trade" side, you could, conceivably have someone never working for the army, get promoted to MWO and posted to an army field unit.   Will we send senior ranks to SQ ?   How well would it go over ?   In the same breath, is it time/resource effective putting someone trough SQ based soley on his/her MOC ?


Agreed.
Sit: Early nineties Petawawa:
The LLQ course became the common standard. Those of us with the LET qual were not required to complete LLQ and were grandfathered. Pers lacking the LET qual had to attend LLQ.
Occurance: Us Cpl/MCpl with the LET qualification were instructing our SGT/WOs on their LLQs.  Imagine that. Can you see why the LLQ didn't last?


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2005)

armyvern said:
			
		

> Agreed.
> Sit: Early nineties Petawawa:
> The LLQ course became the common standard. Those of us with the LET qual were not required to complete LLQ and were grandfathered. Pers lacking the LET qual had to attend LLQ.
> Occurance: Us Cpl/MCpl with the LET qualification were instructing our SGT/WOs on their LLQs.  Imagine that.



Exactly.

We mix juniors and very seniors on the aircrew side routinely as pers switch from one aircraft to another.  Having been in both the army and the airfroce, i found the attitudes/culture to be different when it comes to that.  In my MOC, a MCpl can be in charge of an MWO.  You will have course where there are 5 cpls and a CWO....Not sure if it would go over well in the army to have 32 privates and 1 CWO as students together on course ( living in the same shacks) ....thoughts ?


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## armyvern (20 Nov 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Exactly.
> 
> We mix juniors and very seniors on the aircrew side routinely as pers switch from one aircraft to another.   Having been in both the army and the airfroce, i found the attitudes/culture to be different when it comes to that.   In my MOC, a MCpl can be in charge of an MWO.   You will have course where there are 5 cpls and a CWO....Not sure if it would go over well in the army to have 32 privates and 1 CWO as students together on course ( living in the same shacks) ....thoughts ?


Don't see it happening on the Army side as that it one of the reasons the LLQ eventually fell by the way-side.

We also had regular 'Bosses Nights' in the Air Force (8 Wg Trenton) during my time there where everyone was crammed into the Jr ranks Mess for an evening of partying/socializing, but I've yet to see anything remotely similar occur here in Gagetown. I've heard that it would result in too much pokey chest being played, but had to laugh, as I witnessed enough of that occuring at the AF boss' nights to. Seems kind of funny that each enviornment thinks it's different, but when it gets right down to it...the same stuff occurs when all ranks are thrown together outside of regular working hours.


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## Fraser.g (21 Nov 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Ah, but as mentioned, we are not LFC, we are OPCOM (or is it OPCON, I am so confused   ???)



I believe it is OPCON.

In OPCON they can ask us to suck eggs but not tell us how to do it.

In OPCOM they tell us how to suck the egg.

AAt leastthat is my understanding of the relationship.

We can take this further, they can ask us for field support but can not tell us what courses we need to provide that support. eg SQ.

I, like you, bleieve there is no such thing as too much training or eexperience. There is nothing that burns me more than someone turning down training because "I'm a (medic, airforce, navy, sup tec etc) and so I don't have to do that"

my .02

GF


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## old medic (21 Nov 2005)

I have merged the two threads on Medics taking the SQ course into one new thread under a simplified subject.
I've also added the subject to the medical index.

Cheers,

OM


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