# Electronic hearing protection



## Tracker 23A (22 Dec 2005)

I wanted to know from experienced people (not any "In my opinion"), which model they think is better and why.

I am looking at purchasing either the Peltor 'ComTac', 





or the Sordin 'Supreme Pro'.





What, in your opinion would be the better purchase?


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## Sf2 (22 Dec 2005)

I've used the Peltor on the range, its pretty sweet.  Great noise suppression, but able to hear the quietest of conversations.  My only beef is that the wind covers on the mics fell off quite easily, and once the wind starts blowing without them, there's alot of buffet noise.  The ability to hook up to a comms package is a big plus as well.  I'm sorry, but I don't know anything about the other product you posted.


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## Navalsnpr (22 Dec 2005)

I've owned and used the Peltor 'ComTac' for close to 3 years now and have not had any problems with them. The battery life is tremendous, I use them approx 6 hours a week and only need to change the battery once every 6-8 months.

The fit perfectly under the helmet and provide enough protection from small arms fire wile allowing you to easily carry on a conversation.

I bought mine from Mic Mac Fire and Safety/ and they ended up giving me a good Govt discount.

If you plan on using any muff style hearing protection around anything other than small arms or on indoor ranges, I'd use them in conjunction with ear plugs. It's not a problem with this particular product, but most ear muff style of hearing protection do not provide enough NRR for the real loud stuff!!


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## KevinB (22 Dec 2005)

I bought the ComTac's on a recomondation for a US guy - and a buddy up here - No problems at all for what I am using them for.

  There was a thread on Lightfighter about the two and some of the USSOC guys chimed in with their thoughts.


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## Big Red (23 Dec 2005)

I have been wearing ComTacs everytime I go out and they work as advertised.   I don't know anyone with Sordins but everyone that has ComTacs seems pleased with them. I've worn them under a Canadian helmet and a TC2002.


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## brihard (25 Dec 2005)

What do these do, filter certain frequencies and amplitudes with opposing waveform noise-cancellation?


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## Roy Harding (25 Dec 2005)

Brihard said:
			
		

> What do these do, filter certain frequencies and amplitudes with opposing waveform noise-cancellation?



As I understand it, yes.  

They filter certain frequencies - but exactly how they do it I am not sure.  This allows for persons in a loud industrial workspace to filter out damaging frequencies, but still carry on an almost normally pitched conversatioin.  Pretty neat, huh?


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## brihard (25 Dec 2005)

OK, good stuff- I'm vaguely familiar with the technology- noise cancelling headphones, etc - but I wasn't sure how much they'd made inroads into the military. How big are these units?


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## George Wallace (25 Dec 2005)

They have been around since the 1970's.  AFV helmets were fitted out with them in the 1970 's and 80's.  Nothing new.


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## brihard (25 Dec 2005)

Cheers.


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## KevinB (26 Dec 2005)

Big difference George in these and the th eold ones -- these are also radio compatible (plugs in and has a microphone boom attachment as well)

The old ones the CF issued to Gunners in early 1990 where pulled since they did not work fast enough to cancel the high Db noises.

They are the size of a typical ear defender but cut to allow for them to be worn under a helmet.


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## Sf2 (26 Dec 2005)

Actually, from WHAT I UNDERSTAND, these are NOT noise cancellation headsets (like the BOSE ones that pilots use etc....)

All they do is use the microphones to amplify conversations, but as soon as a certain level of noise is attained, the mics shut off, and you are now wearing normal ear defenders.  When someone is talking, and a loud noise occurs in the background (like a gunshot), you can hear the mics cut off and the voices are no longer amplified.

Now this is just from my experience on the range.  I'm sure there is a website that explains exactly what these things do.


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## Kal (26 Dec 2005)

short final said:
			
		

> Actually, from WHAT I UNDERSTAND, these are NOT noise cancellation headsets (like the BOSE ones that pilots use etc....)
> 
> All they do is use the microphones to amplify conversations, but as soon as a certain level of noise is attained, the mics shut off, and you are now wearing normal ear defenders.  When someone is talking, and a loud noise occurs in the background (like a gunshot), you can hear the mics cut off and the voices are no longer amplified.
> 
> Now this is just from my experience on the range.  I'm sure there is a website that explains exactly what these things do.



    Now I have a question.   If the above statement is true, and there is a an external microphone for intersquad communication hooked up,  


			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> Big difference George in these and the th eold ones -- these are also radio compatible (plugs in and has a microphone boom attachment as well)


the loud noise get cancelled out, but does the communication via radio still go through?


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## KevinB (27 Dec 2005)

Yes the comms still come thru.


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## Big Red (27 Dec 2005)

I have never experienced clipping with the Comtacs. Cheaper models usually have this problem. I run comms with mine and they don't get cut off from loud noises.


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## Sf2 (27 Dec 2005)

the comms will always come thru, they run thru a separate circuit from the external mics.   I'm not an expert on these products, I'm only speaking from experience using them on a pistol range.


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## Tracker 23A (27 Dec 2005)

I have found some differences between Peltor's SoundTrap and ComTac, WRT electronics.

The owner's of www.theshootingedge.com, who are both ex-military, advised me that the ST gives you about 19 dB protection, where the CT gives you 24db protection.

The ST is about 6 milliseconds attack/release, or the time it takes for the sensor to detect and determine incoming noise, the CT is about 3.

The ST is great for recreational or regular shooters, whereas the CT is designed for police and military handling WRT weapons systems and intensity they are subject to.


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## Kal (28 Dec 2005)

Thanks to those that answered my questions.  I figured it would.


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## UberCree (30 Dec 2005)

Why are the comtacs over double the price in Canada that they are in the U.S.?


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## KevinB (30 Dec 2005)

crappy dollar  ;D

Likely the fact TSE is the importer and only bring in very few per shipment and had a high unit cost.


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## Sf2 (31 Dec 2005)

not necessarily the dollar (which is doing quite well these days).

Lots of products are crazy expensive in canada - like cars.


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## Douke (4 Jan 2006)

I was thinking about buying a pair of these for recreational purpose (outdoor range shooting), and I have a question or two.

1st : Is there a very noticeable difference between the ComTac and the SoundTrap ? Is it worth the price difference ?

2nd : Are they generally accepted by units in the CF ? I know there is no definite answer and it depends on the unit (I plan on informing myself as soon as I get back to my unit), but I would like a general idea of "would it be a good idea" and "are they letting me".

3rd : Are they compatible with current CF radio systems like de 5-31 ?

Hoping I am not hijacking anything,
Douke


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## KevinB (5 Jan 2006)

1) Depends if you value your hearing...

2) Yes - no - maybe

3) No -- the manufactures is working on a setup for the PRR and the interface cable with the command PRR to the 521.
     They are compatible with the 148 set used 'elsewhere' in the CF - Motorola setups and other system.


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## Douke (5 Jan 2006)

Vague answers to vague qestions, but still very informative, thanks  ;D


Douke  :warstory:


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## KevinB (5 Jan 2006)

Sorry -- I am at work and have limited computing time on the job as it where...

  1) As mentioned above the shutoff time is the difference - one(Comtac) is made for active shooting in a CQB environement and deals with sonic bangs and gun shot better than the Soundtrap in that respect.  I think that a recreational shotgunner woudl be well served bythe soundtraps - but someone usign rifle and pistol and pyrotechnics woudl be better suited by the comtacs.

 2) I have zero knowledge of your unit but I cannot fathom ANY unit not allowing them 

 3) Using the 148 and XTS3000 (secure) Motorola with the Comtacs they interface well - however the radio communication cuts out the amplification of local sounds/voice so ensure your team is all on radio if you want to guarantee comms 
- IIRC The Shooting Edge was working with the CF and Peltor to come up with an interface for the PRR and the PRR Command Variant (521/522 Interface).  
  The PRR by itself is a TERRIBLE headset - offering no noise reduction for small arms fire and pryro/explosive use - it is in the best interest of the CF and the hearing (both long term and tactical) of its members to ensure this is streamlined and expidited.


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## c_canuk (6 Jan 2006)

holy heck, 1000 bucks per?

wow... though I suppose thats cheap compared to the cost of your hearing...

still though, does anyone sell them for less?


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## mover1 (6 Jan 2006)

This is what we give passengers going on the Herc

http://www.e-a-r.com/e-a-r.com/roll_detail.cfm?prod_family=Classic%20Five%20Pair&ind_prod_num=316-1111001

They aren't that bad and I have even used then servicing the Airbus when I left my good ones at home.

 :blotto:


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## c_canuk (7 Jan 2006)

*snicker*

I suppose I deserved that


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## Kal (7 Jan 2006)

c_canuk said:
			
		

> holy heck, 1000 bucks per?



    How do you figure?  Where are you quoting this price from?


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## c_canuk (7 Jan 2006)

that was from peltor's website... maybe I found the wrong product?


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## COBRA-6 (7 Jan 2006)

I was on the range with the Finish Contingent the other day and noticed they were all wearing Peltor's. Apparently the whole contingent is issued them for the tour, but they only wear them on the range, as they don't have the interface cables for radio connection. They all love them, fits well under the helmet and they can still hear range commands without everyone yelling.


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## UberCree (7 Jan 2006)

Cabela's = $269.99 USD

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp;jsessionid=SE3B5ML1IPV5RTQSNOISCOGOCJVZIIWE?id=0014433224938a&navCount=0&cmCat=srchdx&cm_ven=srchdx&cm_ite=srchdx&CM_REF=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.ca%2Fsearch%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dcabelas%2Bpeltor%2Bcomtac%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3D&_requestid=12766


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## c_canuk (7 Jan 2006)

Sweet! thanks! thats about what I was expecting they would cost.


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## Kal (7 Jan 2006)

Tetragon Distributors - $493.50 CDN

http://www.tetragon.ca/view.cgi?uid=1136672537&sku=COMTAC&currency=

I'm sure you could probably find them cheaper.


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