# Attaching Small Pack to Ruck



## Adrian_888 (12 Jan 2008)

Hi, I recently ran into the problem of having to take along both my ruck and my small pack (common thing i think).  At the time I had to have everything in my ruck, and the small pack would be rolled up and placed under ruck sack lid. Two problems with this was that it took extra time to transfer stuff into my smallpack for patrol, and the other problem was rolling up the small pack would temporally mess it up.

One of our Parade nights our platoon commander showed us an example of a ruck that had side release buckles sowen to the top part, and receiving snaps on the small pack so that the small pack could be quickly attached to the rucksack, and then you can just drop your ruck at camp, and snap off the small pack and your ready for a patroll.

Now I have not been able to get another look at that example, and don't remember how they did it, but i know i have permission to do it, so has anyone here done it or know how (like were exactly to attach buckles, at both ends)?  I recently bought a bunch of these of CP gear. http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=275 I plan to also use some of these on the other ruck straps.  I know i could probably get a look at the ruck next parade night, but i have some spare time right now that id like to do this in.

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks,
-Adrian

*sorry for any grammar mistakes, i read over it and spell checked it but I'm not very good at grammar.


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## PhilB (12 Jan 2008)

I really dont like the concept of attaching a completely full small pack to a ruck. You dont know what you are going to need in your small pack, or if you even need your small pack on patrol at all so why have it fully loaded? If you dont have enough time to transfer some stuff there is something wrong, you have all of battle procedure to move a few pieces of kit into your small pack. Trying to jury rig a full pack to a frame (particularly if you are talking about the 82) is just asking for trouble. It alters the way the ruck carries, puts additional strain on your body while rucking, and just means you have that much more shit to hump. I usually leave my small pack near empty and lash it under my valice on my 64, or under the lid on my CTS ruck. 

So the question is which ruck are you dealing with the 64, 82, or CTS ruck? The easiest one of these would be the 64, simply lash your small pack under your valice and away you go. If your small pack is not that full, or your valice is almost empty you can even attach a loaded small pack this way. I have also seen people replace their valice with the small pack. They either pack their sleeping bag in their small pack, or in most of the cases I have seen, they compress their sleeping bag using a compression bag from MEC, pack it in the main bag of the ruck, then load up their small pack with everything they need. Some options to consider. Any way you cut is with an 82 pattern ruck you are kind of screwed. I would not recommend attaching a full pack to it, just strap your almost empty pack under the lid. With a CTS ruck, again it will be difficult to attach a fully loaded small pack, under the lid it goes.


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## brihard (12 Jan 2008)

The times I've had to do this I've gone with the under the lid stuffing as well, usually with a completely or nearly empty small pack. It can get ugly depending on how full either pack is, but it will work. NBC bags can be your friend- they compress very well, hold a lot, and as long as you're not humping _too_ far or with too much kit, I've found that it will normally serve the same uses you might use a small pack for. You can get them pretty cheaply at surplus places or some unit kit shops. That said, if you're bearing much in the way of weight, the small pack offers more rigidity than a floppy NBC bag. You'll figure it out with experience.


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## noneck (12 Jan 2008)

I agree about the small pack it's assinine to attempt to attach it to a regular sized ruck.

I use two of the old olive green detachable British bergen sidepockets. You have the choice to use either the double pouches or single pouch for the daysack. 

Both the pouches and the harness pack up very small and offer a 20 liter daysack and will fit in a 64 pouch or will fold flat beneath or behind your valise. I don't use it for anything other than a go bag and usually only attach one of the pouches on the harness. It's perfect for carrying a ration, a softie and a few small other items. 

I bought my set here :

http://www.ironwolfent.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=1044&category=field_gear_equipment&keywords=&hits_seen=45&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=&exact_match=yes 

for $15.00 and have used them for the last couple of years. They are grade 1 UK MOD surplus, and may have some writing in marker on them. Ironwolf has a less than stellar rep on the net, but I didn't encounter any issues and had prompt delivery.

Noneck


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## CrazyCanuck (12 Jan 2008)

Use the clips on the side of the small pack to attach it to the 84 pack. You place the smallpack sideways and snap it onto the two loops near the top of the pack above the side pouches (think they're supposed to be for skis's) then you snap the other side onto the straps that hold your valise. When it's nice and tight it won't bounce and is very stable, can hardly feel the extra weight, and is great for humping extra ammo for the carl around. If you do it this way you also don't have to spend any money on attaching extra clips to your ruck and it is still easily detachable.


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## Adrian_888 (12 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the response . I can see the general opinion is its a bad idea... I had too look up "assinine" in a dictionary haha.  So ill definitely take your advice seriously as you are all infanteers of much more experience, but before i give up on the whole idea, what about a lightly packed small pack?  And then maby throw some ammo in it from my ruck right before patroll, as really all i normally carry in my patrol pack is some warmer clothes, and extra ammo.... nothing else of substantial weight (exept the ammo of course but as i said, id put that in after).  I think one point i forgot to mention, is this is not so i can carry more stuff, its so i can have my small pack already organized with what i need for patrolling, wich is what we often end up doing most of the day.

Does that change anything, or do you still think i shouldent do it?


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## CrazyCanuck (12 Jan 2008)

The less weight the better

I know this and I'm not even infantry


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## PhilB (12 Jan 2008)

If all you are having in the small pack is ammo, and a few items of warm clothes then why dont you just pack it after you have stopped some where and are ready to step off on your patrol? Again, the type of ruck you are using would be helpful in answering this question. Like I said earlier, if you are using a 64 pattern it is ok to have a few light weight, packable items in the small pack, then just sandwich it between your main bag and valice, and compress with your A7A straps. If you are using an 82 again, by having a pack strapped somewhere on the out side of your ruckk with severely hamper your ability to ruck. I'm guessing your not talking about the CTS ruck here.


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## Adrian_888 (12 Jan 2008)

> Again, the type of ruck you are using would be helpful in answering this question.



Oops, forgot to answer that, its not a 64, its the wire stuff that apparently bends if you throw if off an ML.  And point taken then, i can see how having something sticking out would mess up the balance of the ruck.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

-Adrian


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## medaid (12 Jan 2008)

If you want a easy way to carry your small pack? Stuff your sleeping gear into your small pack, tighten all the straps and the insert said small pack with sleeping gear into your valice. Starp said valice either under your 82 or on top of you 64. Get to location take out your small pack and then insert sleeping items into valice. It doesn't take long to swap contents. Simple, effective, no mods required.


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## BDTyre (14 Jan 2008)

That's a great idea MedTech...I may try this on my next ex if I end up bringing my small pack.


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## geo (14 Jan 2008)

BTW.... Adrian.... you claim that you have permission to modify & sew things onto your Ruck.
Do you have that in writing?  It's already easy enough to damage your ruck without your doing things to it to adapt things that weren't intended in the 1st place.

I have serious doubts you have permission to do anything... 

Follow the suggestions given to you by the people above...


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## medaid (14 Jan 2008)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> That's a great idea MedTech...I may try this on my next ex if I end up bringing my small pack.



No need man. Glad to help. I learned this from a very nice and very soft spoken sgt on my CAP course. He was nice enough to show not just his section but the entire platoon how to do this. It eventually trickled down to the other platoons, but it worked like a charm.


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## Shamrock (14 Jan 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> No need man. Glad to help. I learned this from a very nice and very soft spoken sgt on my CAP course. He was nice enough to show not just his section but the entire platoon how to do this. It eventually trickled down to the other platoons, but it worked like a charm.



This is a brilliant idea -- perhaps an IPE bag would be better as it is lighter, will store better, and can be stored and removed without significant repacking?

My bergen has removable pockets that attach to a harness that function as a patrol pack.  Maybe those fancy-pants kit designers could produce something similar?


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## qjdb (15 Jan 2008)

If you are still wanting to attach an item to the ruck, you could always use an item like these (about 1/3 of the way down the page) http://www.kifaru.net/MGoptions.htm  The idea is that you can slip the female piece of the buckle onto any 1" webbing that is on the ruck, and then attach the male end to a strap on the small pack, or something like that.  These ones are from Kifaru, and they use them as a part of their 'dock-n-lock' system.

Another option, would be to attach a couple of Grimlocks https://dstactical.com/product_info.php?products_id=865 onto the main ruck, then attach it that way.  Heck, use regular carabiners for that matter.

Or just a couple of valise straps, just wrapped around the ruck would work nicely, too.

But, and this is from a civvy perspective, not military, I agree, if you have too much crap hanging out the back or the sides, you ARE going to throw your balance off.  The pictures that Kifaru has on their site with the piggy backing backpacks, I would imagine that the packs are stuffed with sleeping bags or such, as the models don't seem to be struggling too much.


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## PteGDD (16 Jan 2008)

The way I attach it is real simple.  You put the small pack on your ruck the same you put it on your back.  Shoulder straps go over top of the frame corners of your ruck, and then your chest strap goes under the ruck straps.  I'll post a photo of the method shortly.


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## davidk (16 Jan 2008)

I've used carabiners attached to the daisy-chain webbing on the small pack to attach it to the side loops on the main bag of the 84, but next ex, I'll try the valise idea.


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## cdn031 (17 Jan 2008)

Building on MEDTECH's post, now how to you deal with rapidly loading saif small pack?
Well I think that CP Gear has come up with an interesting concept in their smallpack insert
This looks like it would load nicely into a main 64 Pouch and transfer pretty quick
http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=598


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## toughenough (17 Jan 2008)

For the couple of items you're carrying, having a small pack seems like a lot of overhead.

One of the packs that came with your small pack (might be the butt pack) that has 4 side release buckles on the corners, and a big one on a waist belt, attaches perfectly to the back of the tac vest. It should have no problems holding your couple boxes of ammo, spare socks and gloves, ration, etc. When wearing this as a backpack, I forget it's on there. The weight feels like nothing.


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## Forgotten_Hero (19 Jan 2008)

Actually, while moving, I found a good way of attaching the small pack to the ruck, whether it be full or empty (in my case, it was full because I was taking all my kit with me). The compression straps on the small pack... loop the top two through the compression straps on the ruck, and the bottom ones around your valise straps or around the straps securing your main compartment. That worked quite well, the small pack was well secured.


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## BDTyre (21 Jan 2008)

With all this talk of attaching the small pack to the ruck, I was very tempted to bring my small pack on this last weekend's ex.  I opted not to for a few reasons, but it turns out it probably would have been a good idea (I got to be both the No. 2 on the C6 with SF kit and signaller on a long recce patrol).    I know better next time!  And I'll try out some of these ideas to see what works best.


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## Kempa_Westie (21 Jan 2008)

CanadianTire, that would be the ex with us Westies in the wack, right?
Heh, all i did was, i took my small pack, undid the compression straps at the side, and looped them through my compression valice' straps on the very top, then sinched it down. It worked damn fine.

and why did you have a c6/sf kit for a section attack ex?  We brought a c6 as well, for some reason, but never used it. I just didn't bother asking ;D


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## BDTyre (23 Jan 2008)

For some reason we had a 3 man weapons det: gun commander, No. 1 and me as No. 2.  Long story.  We did some gun drills for about an hour the first day, then we just used the C6 as part of OPFOR for the section attacks.  Didn't help that there was no 7.62 blanks.  And we broke the gun.  It was brand new. 

I have a feeling I might get detailed to weapons det on the next ex, so I think the small pack will be coming with.


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## Adrian_888 (24 Jan 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> BTW.... Adrian.... you claim that you have permission to modify & sew things onto your Ruck.
> Do you have that in writing?  It's already easy enough to damage your ruck without your doing things to it to adapt things that weren't intended in the 1st place.
> I have serious doubts you have permission to do anything...
> Follow the suggestions given to you by the people above...



Another good point against this.  I had already taken thos said suggestions from the experienced posters above, and realised this was a bad idea.  Think ill stick with trying it on or using one of the temporary solutions, all depending on the situation.  I know it would be fine in on weekend exercises and stuff, but I'm worried about when i got for my Infantry training, might get in shit.

This seems to have sparked other discusions on this topic, (which is good and all)  but just wanna make it clear I'm not gonna go sewing anything to my ruck OK.


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