# Parachutist wings from cadets on my PRes or RegF uniform



## silentseaforthsoldier (30 Dec 2002)

Hey, if all goes to plan.....I‘m taking the army cadet parachutist course this summa(2003)...I‘m in BC so this spring break i got a pre-para course (its all PT)......only bc does that.......then i‘m off to connaught for 2 weeks of more PT and then 3 weeks at Trendon for the actual jump course for the 5 jumps.........


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## DnA (4 Jan 2003)

quit bragging to get attention

oh, look at me, I‘m taking para as a cadet...


I wouldent be so cocky, acting like your gonna pass it, Para is a damn hard course


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## Soldier of Fortune (5 Jan 2003)

Does anybody know if it would be harder to get onto the Para course though Cadets or the Reserves (specificaly QOR)? If you wanted do do it in the reserves what are you‘re chances compared to trying through cadets.


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## Wilson601 (5 Jan 2003)

I asked my Section commander on my QL3 infantry. "how hard is it to get your jump course" his exact words were: "quit and join cadets".

I topped my BMQ, SQ, BIQ so for a reward they told me I could have my name on the top of any course I wanted. I Told them I want basic para, they said "Yea, we meant any course except that one."  turns out, the next one i asked for (basic recce) was only offered to regs.

hope that clears it up for ya. I believe Queens Own Rifles in Toronto‘s secondary func. is Airborne, you MAY be able to get it, if your in their unit of course.  :skull:


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## Jarnhamar (5 Jan 2003)

A few years ago i would have said cadets for sure, though to actually get the jump course as a cadet i can only imagine that you would have had to been in the unit for years and had a lot of seniority.

Lately reserves are starting to get more and more jump courses.


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## Soldier of Fortune (8 Jan 2003)

Ok, thanks for the info.


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## Wilson601 (8 Jan 2003)

I Know a Cadet who thinks he‘s gonna get away with wearing his jumpwings he earned in cadets on his CF‘s when he joins the Reserves. C‘mon now!!  :skull:


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## combat_medic (8 Jan 2003)

Carl G.: You can wear cadet jump wings on your CF dress uniform, but it‘s the ONLY thing that transfers over from cadets to the army.


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## McG (8 Jan 2003)

There is no such thing as "cadet jump wings."  There are only CF parachute wings.  It is the same course with the same qualification.


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## combat_medic (9 Jan 2003)

McG: Yes, but I menat the wings earned in cadets. And yes, they‘re the same as CF para wings.

Though I think the course is wasted on cadets.


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## Gunner109 (15 Jan 2003)

The basic para crse is open to Cadets Reserve and Reg units, thats true.  I would have to say that as for units that do NOT require the crse to carry out their primary function.  ie: Para sub units.  It is a crse that is given to people who deserve it.  Alot of times it is given to people who deserve a reward of some type for their efforts.  Alot like other not trade specific crse‘s.  I would have to say that if you really want the crse, then impress that fact upon your supervisors and, just keep on asking.  
dont give up, eventually you will get it.


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## 2IRRCadet (22 Jan 2003)

Your not the only one going for para this summer. We dont get pre course in sudbury or area though.Kinda sucksWhat‘s your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








  regenment?


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## BestOfTheBest (26 Jan 2003)

sas?


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## Bzzliteyr (26 Jan 2003)

That is a brigade patch for the brigade that the Canadian Airborne Regiment was a part of.. it is worn on the shoulder of the Dress,Environmental Uniform. Of course, it is no longer being used as the Regiment has been disbanded...

Bzz


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## Armymedic (26 Jan 2003)

It is the Special Service Force (SSF) Patch to which 2 CMBG became after the disbandment of the CAR and the Airborne Battle Group.


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## Bzzliteyr (26 Jan 2003)

Thanks, I couldn‘t get it out in words.. but I knew that‘s what the answer was.. Superbowl night and all, mind a little off...

Bzz


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## Kingofpt (21 May 2003)

I need to know the prerequisites for the para course, ex: CL, CLI, etc. please!  :fifty:    :tank:


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## Marti (22 May 2003)

i‘m pretty sure it‘s just CLI and NSCE. i remember some guys from selection getting turned down because they didn‘t have NSCE, and from what i remember everyone on course had at least a CLI.


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## greeves (22 May 2003)

According to CATO 42-01 you need to be NSCE qualified and have passed any WO qualifying course, ie: CLI.  Also, you have to have reached the age of 17 by August 1st of the training year and not 18 by the end of the course.  You also need to be recommended by your CO in conjuction with your Corps‘ sponsor.  Also, you‘ll need to pass a medical administered by a CF doctor, and finally, pass the your region‘s PT test to be considered.  Generally, there are more cadets that pass than there are spots, so there is usually a waiting list of candidates.  If you‘re really interested in getting on this course, talk to your unit CO AND Admin Officer to make sure you make all the deadlines for paperwork, physicals, tests etc.  Then start training - I can‘t stress enough how important physical fitness is to passing this course!

Good luck!


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## The_Falcon (4 Aug 2003)

Depends, QOR have jump tasking, to support CPC and 3RCR, but lately as part of some retention intiatives, they have started allowing more people other than QOR take a jump course, although it is more helpful to be in 32 Brigade (the brigade with QOR), as you will find they are reluctant to give jump courses to people who will never get the chance to jump after course, unless they are near a jump unit.


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## greeves (10 Aug 2003)

Seeing as only 40-50 cadets per year (there‘s only one cadet serial a year) get on Basic Para...and these candidates have all been in cadets for 5-6 years already and been near or at the top of any courses they‘ve taken - I‘d say your chances are better in the reserves.


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## Redeye (10 Aug 2003)

The best shot of getting one‘s jump course in the PRes is to be a member of either the QOR, the Lincoln & Welland Regiment, or the Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment, all of which have jump companies now.  Of course, you have to be in excellent shape as well.  Other units do get guys onto courses, mainly highly motivated individuals that have earned it - it‘s not impossible.


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## Excolis (17 Sep 2003)

I am a cic officer, and i hope to get on the Basic Para course this year with the cadets.  i have been training for some time now, and i was just wondering what other exercises i can do to help me do better while i am on course?  i am sure htere are plenty of airborne out there.  please help me out if you could.

P.S. and just to let you know my name should be spelled Ex Coelis.  but it was already taken...


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## Gunnar (17 Sep 2003)

Chin ups.  Lots of chin-ups.  Do them two handed, one handed, in the middle, reversed grip, etc.  From what I am told it is a repeat of basic in a way, except that instead of running everywhere, you do chin-ups everywhere.

Your arms need to be strong to handle the shroud lines.


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## GhostRecce (17 Sep 2003)

yeah i met a guy in the summer who took it when he was a cadet. he said it was ALOT of chin ups.


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## Excolis (17 Sep 2003)

sounds good,  thanks for the input... anyone else have any pointers?


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## Gunnar (17 Sep 2003)

There‘s another exercise I recall hearing about in connection with the paras...lie on your back, and lift your feet and head off the floor at the same time, with your arms at your sides.  Hold it.

I‘m not sure what this is, I think it has something to do with some of the positions you get into when you land.

Then do more chin-ups.

...and remember, I‘m a civvy, so I‘ve never done it.


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## Doug VT (18 Sep 2003)

The position that you‘re describing is called the "5th point of flight procedure", it‘s a good one!
    Excolis, I think you should change your name.  While it is nice that you like it, you‘re not entitled to use it, ever.  Also it confuses you with the other Ex Coelis, who I know has earned it‘s use as a title.  As an "officer" you should know better, sort it out.


AIRBORNE!


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## Excolis (18 Sep 2003)

i just think it is a good motto.  i don‘t want to offend anyone.  can anyone tell me how to chang my log in name.


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## Pikache (18 Sep 2003)

Click on profile near top right to go through options and stuff.

Your log on name would still be ‘excolis‘ but your screen name can be changed to whatever.


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## Excolis (18 Sep 2003)

thank you lots...i got it under control now


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## Excolis (17 Oct 2003)

so, i was wondering if there were any army cadets out there who have done the basic para course.  just curious about what goes on and what type of drills you do (pt,class)  i am trying to get loaded on as the escort officer this year, and am curious as how to train better.  hopefully someone out there has some pointers for me.


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## MikeM (17 Oct 2003)

Theres a cadet on cadetworld.com forums who has done it, try asking over there you might get a better response


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## leopard11 (17 Oct 2003)

[No message]


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## Excolis (18 Oct 2003)

thanks guys, i also downloaded the joining instructions off the net.  but i wanted an inside to the drills they do when you are there.  do they make you do the airborne swim. ect.. **** like that


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## FriarVic (18 Oct 2003)

Could you post a link to the joining instructions for the para course.  Interested in the requirements as well.


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## Scratch (19 Oct 2003)

The Cadet para course is extremly hard it has the highest drop out percentage of all the courses and has strict tests


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## MikeM (19 Oct 2003)

Thanks tips, we knew that already lol.


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## Excolis (20 Oct 2003)

I know it is difficult, i was more on the lines of wondering what drills i could do to improve training.


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## MikeM (20 Oct 2003)

Well sir, unless you have parachute training equipment in your house, I don‘t really think there is much you can train for. I have been told by people from the course to just work on physical fitness and running as much as possible to get prepared for it.


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## leopard11 (20 Oct 2003)

all it says in the joining instructions is to carry out a fitness program 6 weeks prior to start of course (running, Push ups, chin ups(no long jump for the para troops) and situps). but since u have the joining instructions i would imagine you knew that.  I will try to talk to some guy i know that did the PARA course (i know 2 reserve soldiers and 1 cadet)and ask them what they did to prepare.
Sgt Taraso, 2379 RHLI RCAC


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## Marti (20 Oct 2003)

I took my jump course with cadets, so i know what you guys are going through, not really knowing what to expect. My advice is don‘t sweat it too much. For PT, there‘s the obvious running, push ups, chin ups, but I‘d also recomend improving your grip strenght for the flight lectures and if you really want to be keen, practicing lying on your back with your legs straight, feet 6‘‘ off the ground could help you during those times the instructors are trying to motivate you. Don‘t worry about the drills too much, there‘s plenty of time to practice during the course, learning them ahead of time could just lead to you forming bad habbits. From what I saw on my course, most of the guys who showed up already knowing everything just ended up failing. Just trust yourself, keep you nose clean and everything will work out fine.


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## MikeM (20 Oct 2003)

Thanks for the advice, didn‘t ever consider the legs 6" off the ground thing before, I‘m going to start doing leg raises again, thanks!


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## Excolis (21 Oct 2003)

i am not meaning drills as (PLF‘s, flight drils)  i mean ground drills for pt.  did they make you do the airborne swim,  shuttle run, burpee‘s, what type of things did they make you do for the ground pt training.  any suggestions marti?


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## combat_medic (21 Oct 2003)

Hopefully airborne: Run. Run a lot, every day, long distances, as much as possible. You will be running everywhere if you get on course. In addition, make sure your upper body strength is very high; there are chinups, pushups and other various upper body things galore. When in doubt, go for a run. Then, do some chinups, then run more. Some pushups, then more running, followed by running, and then a run.

Did I mention running?


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## Excolis (21 Oct 2003)

lol...  i know there is alot of running involved.  that shouldn‘t be a problem for me though.... i am working on that everyday.


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## andrea (27 Oct 2003)

i dont know how i stumbled upon this but then i saw the name Sgt taraso and it got creepy. i really dont have a life. *sighs* call me if u read this taraso .hahah. well im not even thinking about being airborne, i just wanted to see what u guys wrote. but i like to run, if thats anything...     good luck ppl


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## chrisp1j (28 Oct 2003)

Hi, I did the course this summer so i can give you up-to-date information. 

We‘re up at 5:25 in Connaught for morning PT. It consists of either the PT test, or a relatively long, extremely fast pace (near sprint!) with the usual stops for pushups and 5th point. Days are filled with concurrent activities (circuit training in a local olympic pool, sports and trips). At 16:00 expect a death run (most dreaded them) in the Connaught sun, on endless dusty potholed roads. These last around an hour or so (trust me, you can go very far in an hour). Food sucks. You‘re always on the chinup bars.

The three weeks at Trenton were the best of my life. Great food, professional instructors (all ex CAR), and jumping. 

 I won‘t tell you much about the training except: pay attention to detail, run everywhere, don‘t injure yourself, be agressive on the mock tower (or you will almost certainly fail), and don‘t eat a heavy lunch (you don‘t want to be tired during for the afternoon).

To train, be able to run far, and fast. Spend some time in the pushup position and the 5th point. 

The feelings can‘t be placed into words. The smell of jet fuel, getting on the plane (feeling the prop-blast with your chute on), the engines revving up, the door opening, the "GO!", the chute deploying, the quiet of the sky, the landing, and the lying there thinking "that was amazing". You will experience nothing like it.


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## MikeM (28 Oct 2003)

What region are you in for cadets, and what corps if you mind me asking?


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## Excolis (30 Oct 2003)

i am in windsor if you are asking me and thanks chris that was helpful.  have any cool links?


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## MikeM (30 Oct 2003)

I was asking chris.


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## GGHG_Cadet (30 Oct 2003)

Hey Chris I was at connaught too. Saw you para guys doing your run then your chin-ups and push ups. It was the day of the grad parade when the top per on the course jumped out of the Griffon. That was pretty cool.


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## chrisp1j (2 Nov 2003)

Im with 337 Queen‘s York Rangers, in COA. We had 5 from COA go up, all passed. 

BTW, the person who PM‘d me, I dont have a digital camera or scanner, but I‘ll see what I can do.

Try these:

www.commando.org

 http://www.magicmouse.ca/wings42.htm 

 http://ww2.isys.ca/army/para.html  
(Note: Fitness standards have changed; our attrition rate was about %33 of our course, or 17 people of 49) 

 http://www.hsbcadets.ca/c_basic.htm 
(I had meant to make one of these!)

Please post any other good links you‘ve got.


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## MikeM (2 Nov 2003)

Chris, in COA our para test was cancelled when it was at Phase 2 for NSCE, did they use your ACFT results from Phase 1 or did u send in your results done at your LHQ

And if so, what did u get on the ACFT if you don‘t mind me asking.


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## chriscalow (3 Nov 2003)

hopefully airborne soon... I did the course in 02 and all i can tell you is what i was told.  shaddap an listen.  as for pt all I can say is dont ever quit.  on a run, dont walk at all.  some ppl will start to walk and they will get picked on.  And being a CIC officer they wont take you very seriously.  Another thing to keep in mind is that on the course you arent really considered an officer.  Our escort officer was really cool but sometimes it really got to us when we had our lights out time and what not and he was out doin "officer" stuff if you know what i mean.  You are gonna be goin through it with the rest of the boys, they are your team.  A couple of things i wished that i practiced for were the flight room, hang from a chinup bar or what ever and hold your legs out infront of you at 90 degrees for as long as you can.  It will help in the meat locker.


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## Excolis (4 Nov 2003)

thanks guys, and i know that i would be one of the boys.  i am extreemly motivational, and i want to help the cadets pass.  i will get on that course come ****  or high water.  keep the tips comong.


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## chriscalow (4 Nov 2003)

sir, you will need the cadets to help you pass just as much.  and once you do well, read the "airborne creed"  particularly "every man an emperor" live it.


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## Excolis (5 Nov 2003)

i know that.  and i look forward to working with cadets in that manor.


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## primer (6 Nov 2003)

hopefully airborne soon: I have looked into the jump course for Army Cadets and yes there are 2 positions for CIC officers. I ask a few Officers that have applied for the course that were not accepted.

1. They were not fully Bilingual

2. They were not the Rank of Captain

3. They were not a OC or a 2ic of a company at a CTC

I would try to get a few of these things under your belt first and keep trying

Good luck


Ruck up and Soldier on


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## MikeM (6 Nov 2003)

Yup, you may want to view the prerequisites for the course before applying.


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## Excolis (7 Nov 2003)

i have and the only pre-req for the course is you r qualified LT which i will be..it says that bilingual is preferred


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## MikeM (7 Nov 2003)

I am pretty sure you need to have previous CTC experience.


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## chriscalow (7 Nov 2003)

mike did you do your cli in 01?  B coy black down?


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## MikeM (7 Nov 2003)

No, ‘02, I was the top cadet, I received the ANAVET for it. My friend Mike Wierzba did it in ‘01, same with a guy named Galbraith who used to go to my corps.


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## chrisp1j (7 Nov 2003)

We actually had our fitness tests conducted by our CO in Fort York Armouries. 

All 3 of the officers on our course this year were Captains. I know that one of them was fully bilingual, though im not sure about the others. 

As far as I could tell, the CIC sends 1 officer with us on the actual course, each year. It seems as though they cycle through in this manner: 1st year, escort officer (cadet crap); 2nd year your an escort officer and you do the course with the cadets; 3rd year, your the OC of the Cadet Para Course (with your wings). Im thinking that that is how its supposed to be, but I believe that this year, the 2 junior Capts. were first years on the cadet jump course. I guess that the idea is: always have at least 1 CIC officer on the course who has done it before.


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## MikeM (7 Nov 2003)

You‘re almost correct on that one

My platoon commander in banff this summer was the OC of para last year, and the way it works is that for your first year you‘re the Escort officer, and do the course, then second year the admin officer, and third year the OC.

So yeah you are right, it is a cycle they go through.


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## chrisp1j (7 Nov 2003)

Sure, that could make sense ( It must have gotten screwed up this year as it was our adminO‘s first year on the course too).


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## Matt0304 (8 Nov 2003)

You are supposed to have 2 jump qualified officers on staff, and one do the course; the only reason it was different this year is because the 2ic that was jump qualified bailed out so we ended up with a 2ic of the company that was not jump qualified.  Also, our OC did the course last year, not two years ago.


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## Excolis (11 Nov 2003)

matt Capt. Prince was you OC corect.  the orders are that there are three officers to be on course.  the Admin O takes the course with the cadets, and the OC and DCO are both airborne qualified already.


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## Matt0304 (11 Nov 2003)

That‘s what I said, sir.  All i stated was that this year it was not that way for certain reasons.  Captain Prince was our OC, indeed.


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## chriscalow (12 Nov 2003)

Im not sure about the official pre-requisites for CIC, but my officers were Capt. Perry as the Officer commanding... we had Capt. Cree as our DCO/TRG O and our ESCORT officer was capt Prince.  

BTW.. Mike, your buddy Wierzba is in my militia unit and he just got nominated for bpara.  Good guy.


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## Excolis (13 Nov 2003)

thanks guys.. hopefully i will have my wings soon... and i can help cadets get thiers..


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## Matt0304 (13 Nov 2003)

Sir, getting on the course is one thing...getting your Wings is another...


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## Marti (13 Nov 2003)

qy rang cdt: who was the CSM that year?


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## chriscalow (16 Nov 2003)

My CSM was cdt MWO Cheung from the Foot Guards in Ottawa


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## Excolis (17 Nov 2003)

matt, i know, and i m up for it.  what was your pass rate last year?....and your name do you mean it to say 0203?


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## Matt0304 (17 Nov 2003)

17 out of 49 failed....65% pass rate.

And Sir, no...why would i want to pretend to be on a different course serial from last year?  My course serial is 0304 and with all due respect  I know 0304 from 0203.

Cheers

Post edited for content.


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## Matt0304 (17 Nov 2003)

To clarify in case someone is curious and does not know how the BPara course serials work...first two numbers (03) is the year.. last two are the course number that was run that year (04).

So... 0304 = 4th course run in the year 2003.


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## Matt0304 (17 Nov 2003)

They say 17 and not over 18...but I did it when i was 16 (you are allowed as of 2002 to be 16) and there were enough 18 year olds to scrap that rule too.  Basically...you must be 16 before the start of the course and not turn 19 before it finishes.


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## Marti (17 Nov 2003)

Thanks qy rang cdt, I think I remember him saying he wasn‘t sure if he‘d come back to be CSM.


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## MikeM (17 Nov 2003)

Good to hear about Wierzba, haven‘t talked to him in a bit, last I heard he was going to go for Naval engineering, but it looks like he stayed with your militia unit, good to hear he‘s going for Bpara.


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## Harris (18 Nov 2003)

Gentlemen and ladies,

Please remember that swearing is not allowed on these forums.  If you feel the need to show how mature you are by swearing, please do it in a private message to each other.

Please remember that substuting other characters still constitutes swearing.  It‘s not needed, nor appropriate.


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## Excolis (18 Nov 2003)

matt, i was just asking.  i am not educated remember.  i want to learn,   relax....


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## chriscalow (18 Nov 2003)

They say you need a CLI.. But one girl we had only did CL.  She had nsce though.  

Hey Matt, did you have any females pass this year?


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## Matt0304 (19 Nov 2003)

1 man, 1...just barely.


Yeah, Potter only had CL this summer too.  I dno how that works.


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## chriscalow (19 Nov 2003)

I heard you guys jumped civ planes?  How was that?


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## Matt0304 (20 Nov 2003)

Meh, wanted a CC130...trained for CC130‘s...then jumped from CASA 212‘s...lol.

All CC130‘s = broken

To fix = money

CF = lack of $

We did all ramp jumps from the CASA 212 (no side doors)...it was odd.  We could only put 10 guys up in the air at once too...it was still amazing...but I wanted to jump outta a herc!  Oh well.


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## East Side Soprano (2 Jan 2004)

Cadets have a stupid obsession with Para. Para does not make you hardcore, being in a tough unit and having your **** together makes you hardcore. People assigned to logistics units can do the para course...airborne Quartermaster!!! Hooo-aahhh!!! Hardly seems all that hardcore. If some punk came to me showing off his wings telling me hes better than I am, I‘d kick his a*s, wings or no wings. Don‘t waste your remaining summer in Cadets doing para is you didn‘t do an exchange and especially if your not gonna do reg force or reserves, its a waste of time. Otherwise you go on into civilian life with your wings, get fat, collect unemplyment benefits etc...be smart, don‘t do para for bragging rights, make the most out of cadets, do an exchange, travel the world for free, do para once your actually IN the army.


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## East Side Soprano (2 Jan 2004)

Cadets have a stupid obsession with Para. Para does not make you hardcore, being in a tough unit and having your **** together makes you hardcore. People assigned to logistics units can do the para course...airborne Quartermaster!!! Hooo-aahhh!!! Hardly seems all that hardcore. If some punk came to me showing off his wings telling me hes better than I am, I‘d kick his a*s, wings or no wings. Don‘t waste your remaining summer in Cadets doing para is you didn‘t do an exchange and especially if your not gonna do reg force or reserves, its a waste of time. Otherwise you go on into civilian life with your wings, get fat, collect unemplyment benefits etc...be smart, don‘t do para for bragging rights, make the most out of cadets, do an exchange, travel the world for free, do para once your actually IN the army.


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## Thompson_JM (3 Jan 2004)

i dont know how you cadets do a para course. i doubt its the same as a CF run course.. i can tell you though that from two individuals i know who did para in the reserves last summer it was hard as **** and you did PT till you puked. one was from my unit and one from 23 Field Ambulance

they both told me it was increadably demanding and any and all sharp training (thats CF Harasment training) went right out the window...

so just a heads up. im sure yours wont be as demanding. but still..


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## The_Falcon (3 Jan 2004)

Cpl Thompson, it is the same Para course, they make it two weeks longer to bring the PT standards up, but at the end of it they still get the same wings as the Regs/Reserves. Wouldn‘t know if they get harrassed as badly, as I have never been a cadet. But there are a few individuals in my regiment who earned wings as cadets and still wear them to this day.


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## Excolis (5 Jan 2004)

east side...  who are you talking to?  me???  i have done the whole cadet thing, and later i want to transfer to pres.  but as for right now, i have to be happy with CIC.  my job wont let me take a lot of time off.  and i want to do para not for bragging rights at all.  i want to do the course because it is a goal of mine.  and  by having those wings i could be a role model for the cadets in this area.  believe it or not, the kids look up to people with those wings, and take an interest.


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## Excolis (5 Jan 2004)

east side.... you need to relax a little.  why are you so  pissy towards people who want to go after something?  no one ever said they wanted to be hard corps....  where are you located?


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## East Side Soprano (5 Jan 2004)

Sorry about the heated words but it does anger me when cadets see themselves as the world‘s finest once they have completed para. Completing para makes you para qualified not "Airborne this" or "Airborne that", they are two different things. To answer your question, I‘m from Mississauga.


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## East Side Soprano (5 Jan 2004)

Sorry 2LT, I wasn‘t taking to anybody in particular, just voicing my opinion on the entire subject.


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## Jarnhamar (5 Jan 2004)

I‘d agree with a lot of what East Side said.
While passing the para course does show people that you can meet a certian standard in physical fitness and do the drills it doesn‘t make you this hard core warrior.  I‘ve found they DO have an obsession with the course. This could be a good thing as it gives them a goal and trains them to be fit and capable (as parachuters) but paratroopers are well trained "soldiers".

I think it‘s ignorant to come into the cadet forum and talk down to them so i do my best not to do it. That being said, i was almost charged when i had a short stint working with cadets. We had a few hours to spare so i set them up as an infantry platoon and walked them through how a platoon attack would go. If a cadet passes the course then more power to them, but if they want to be a paratrooper they need to be a soldier too.


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## Jason Jarvis (5 Jan 2004)

> I think it‘s ignorant to come into the cadet forum and talk down to them so i do my best not to do it. That being said, i was almost charged when i had a short stint working with cadets. We had a few hours to spare so i set them up as an infantry platoon and walked them through how a platoon attack would go. If a cadet passes the course then more power to them, but if they want to be a paratrooper they need to be a soldier too.


Good God, Ghost778, how dare you attempt to put the "army" into army cadets! What were you thinking, man? This isn‘t the UK!   

Teach air cadets how to fly and sea cadets how to sail, but don‘t even think about teaching army cadets how to be soldiers. This attitude might explain why army cadet enrollment is so poor compared to air cadets.


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## Excolis (6 Jan 2004)

ghost, i agree...  and being a parachutist and a paratrooper are two totally different things.....  

eastside.  i understand, it just seems like you have a hard on for the para course.  and i know what you mean about people thinking they are hardcore.


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## Jarnhamar (6 Jan 2004)

H.A.S, I think you‘ll be a very good CIC officer since it looks like you won‘t be filling your soldiers heads with ideas of grandure. It‘s great to build them up but obviously not into something they can‘t be. You‘ll probably get your jump course before me too   

I got a question for you. Whats more important, your jump course or the welfare of your soldiers.
IF you had a chance to take a jump course BUT you were asked to go to black down because a CIC officer who was susposed to go down for the summer can‘t make it, would you spend a crappy summer down there or take your jump course and get your wings?


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## Excolis (6 Jan 2004)

well ghost if i was in that situation where my real job wouldn‘t come into play.  i would go to blackdown because i know i am young and will eventually get a chance to do the course...  and i know never to build your troops up too much.  because when they get dissappointed, they wont respect you as well.   what regiment are you with?


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## Roger (6 Jan 2004)

Getting your wings means you have the right stuff, not that you are the right stuff, many people who did get their wings did not pass the Maroon beret course and did not get a chance to join the Airborne Regiment, and many members of the Airborne did not pass the Pathfinders course, one of the most gruelling courses the Armed forces has and did not mean they where not tough. Today many men who have their wings do not pass the JTF2 screening.

If you are a cadet and want your wings then go for it, there only difference is red leaf did not serve in a jump regiment or company and white leaf did, but you will get the respect from everyone who has wings.

When you have your wings wear them with pride because it shows that you have the right stuff in you, it does not guaranty you are the right stuff but have the potential. And in the same right not having your wings does not mean you are not a good soldier.


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## Cadet810 (6 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Matt0304:
> [qb] 1 man, 1...just barely.
> 
> 
> Yeah, Potter only had CL this summer too.  I dno how that works. [/qb]


Scores on NSCE would determine that, if you go to Para or not.


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## Excolis (6 Jan 2004)

well said trap.....


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## Roger (6 Jan 2004)

Getting your wings means you have the right stuff, not that you are the right stuff, many people who did get their wings did not pass the Maroon beret course and did not get a chance to join the Airborne Regiment, and many members of the Airborne did not pass the Pathfinders course, one of the most gruelling courses the Armed forces has and did not mean they where not tough. Today many men who have their wings do not pass the JTF2 screening.

If you are a cadet and want your wings then go for it, there only difference is red leaf did not serve in a jump regiment or company and white leaf did, but you will get the respect from everyone who has wings.

When you have your wings wear them with pride because it shows that you have the right stuff in you, it does not guaranty you are the right stuff but have the potential. And in the same right not having your wings does not mean you are not a good soldier.

I posted this in a other area and posted it here as well, all I can say is go for it, I respect eveyone who has wings does not matter from what country or how he received them, wear them with pride and dont take **** from anyone.


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## Cadet810 (6 Jan 2004)

It was my goal to get Para Wings but I had a knee surgery which unable me to jump. So I turned blue to get wings of a different type . 


*Note I was applying for cadets only have CL in my other post.


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## primer (6 Jan 2004)

I would agree with all that was said here. Its the only (CDN)ARMY Course that is still offerd to Army Cadets,Thats why they want it so bad.


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## Cadet810 (6 Jan 2004)

Did Air Cadets ever take Para at any time?

If so , when?

I hope not. We are supose learn how to fly not jump out of planes.


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## Jason Jarvis (6 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Cadet810:
> Did Air Cadets ever take Para at any time?
> 
> If so , when?
> ...


Not to my knowledge. I believe parachute training has always been the army‘s responsibility, although I wouldn‘t be surprised to learn that RCAF NCOs trained at the RAF jump school during WW2. Maybe Danjanou or Dorosh would know?

Air cadets wanting to jump will have to do what I did -- go to camp as a staff cadet, save your pennies, and then just go to the nearest drop zone without telling your mama. Once you‘re 18 you don‘t need parental supervision.

Just be prepared for the sh!t to hit the fan when you get home with your fancy new first jump certificate!


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## Cadet810 (6 Jan 2004)

Yes , that would work.

I am sick of hearing Air Cadets complain about it.


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## Excolis (7 Jan 2004)

i had an air cic officer tell me that he did his course this summer with the cadets..  he said he didn‘t have to do any of the pt and just had to study, then they let him jump.  he said he got to do 15 jumps.. B/S..... i cant believe how he even said that.. and if it is true and you know something about it.. please let me know... LOL


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## primer (7 Jan 2004)

The Air Cadets did have a jump course called Para Rescue Back in the late 70s and early 80s. I know of one CIC officer that has the wings.they are a little different. They dont make them anymore so now he uses the cherry wings.


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## Jungle (7 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by hopefully airborne soon:
> [qb] i had an air cic officer tell me that he did his course this summer with the cadets..  he said he didn‘t have to do any of the pt and just had to study, then they let him jump.  he said he got to do 15 jumps.. B/S..... i cant believe how he even said that.. and if it is true and you know something about it.. please let me know... LOL [/qb]


BS!!! First of all, if you don‘t do the PT, you are not on the course. Second, the largest number of jumps I have seen done on a J-stage is 9.


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## Roger (7 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by hopefully airborne soon:
> [qb] he said he didn‘t have to do any of the pt and just had to study, then they let him jump.  he said he got to do 15 jumps.. [/qb]


I think he must have been confused, I never heard of a course doing more than 9 jumps, most or almost all are 8. And as far as the PT goes I find that hard to believe, I think he took a civilian course through the military, you can take tyhe course through most base clubs but that does not entitle you to wear the wings.


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## chrisp1j (7 Jan 2004)

Okay, lets set some things strait....

1. Air cadets cannot do the course, it requires NSCE to get on it. This is not offered in air cadets (I love the idea of a pararescue course!).

2.Alot of people will lie about being airborne. Example: an "aquaintence" of mine told me he did his mock tower training in Borden...please. 15 jumps on a J-stage is the same type of BS.

3.It was the best summer of my life. If I had gone to Germany (and realized what I missed out on) I would have regretted it. Take the course if you can get it.

4. Those who haven‘t done the course think that its different. Its not. Its the same course, same instructors, and same standards, no exceptions No exceptions. No exceptions. Enough said?

(we did our course with a group primarily 3rd Royal 22nd, who are deploying to ASTAN and were on thaty "Truth Duty Valour" show). 

5. Your wings instill a sense of pride. If you allow yourself to become lazy and huge, you‘ve failed your wings. We won‘t fail our wings, they mean more than: "I jumped out of a plane". It takes a certain type of person to do the course (thats why 1/3 failed). If you don‘t have them, you couldn‘t possibly know, so don‘t bother commenting on the validity of that statement.

6. Alot of people can‘t get on jump courses, so remember that when you read posts from ignorant (sorry, but its true) reservists (not all, of course). Remind yourself of their motivations for saying what they do.

7. Military Parachutists, yes. Paratroopers, no. I agree. 

8. Airborne, yes. Airborne, yes. No one can say otherwise...so don‘t waste your breath east (or anyone else for that matter). Don‘t bother.


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## chrisp1j (7 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by East Side Soprano:
> 
> [qb] People assigned to logistics units can do the para course...airborne Quartermaster!!! Hooo-aahhh!!! Hardly seems all that hardcore. [/qb]


Yeah, go tell that to a rigger, they‘re Loggies, huge, and mainly ex CAR...see who wins that fight...

Know the facts before you comment. Make informed opinions and you won‘t look like ______________.

Figure it out.


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## Roger (7 Jan 2004)

You can go to this web sight  http://www.commando.org 

It is a Canadian sight about the Canadian Airborne Regiment. The forums are very interesting and full of information. Past members of the Airborne and current members of the jump company‘s post here. You can also ask questions to people who taught the course or took the course.


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## SVS (10 Jan 2004)

Run, Run, Run, you will be thrown out of bed at 5 am and PT starts at 5.30, where you will run from at least 5-10 km with push-ups and sit-ups and all other kinds of pain in between. Push-ups will be the biggest part of daily life.


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## Caz (10 Jan 2004)

Any Air Cadet that tells you they did the Para course is pulling your leg, unless for some reason they were an NCSE Army Cadet that did it, and switched elements - kind of unlikely, I‘d bet.

As for Air CIC... stranger things have happened, but I‘m sure there is no shortage of deserving Army CIC dying to take the course.


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## Franko (12 Jan 2004)

Get in touch with Maj Serge Eric Boudreau. If you are a 2Lt in the CIC, as you say you are, then you have access to the DIN. He has been an instructor on the Para course for the past few years. He should be able to help. Tell him Franko in the gilly suit sent you. He‘ll know what you mean. Or just e-mail me. I‘ll send it his way.

Cheers


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## Caz (16 Jan 2004)

I don‘t know about the 2Lt, but I know I sure haven‘t had the pleasure of accessing the DIN.  Just CadetNet


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## Franko (16 Jan 2004)

Are any of you planning on going Reg?...if not you may want to rethink going on jump. You can‘t keep current as a reservist...jumps are allocated to Reg jumpers first, then mo. 

Remember, just because you want the course doesn‘t mean you‘ll pass. Knew one guy on J stage broke his leg on final jump...FAIL.

Something to think about...not trying to discourage anyone.

Regards


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## Caz (16 Jan 2004)

I don‘t think it‘s about keeping current, Franko.  For the Army Cadets, it is their brass ring.

Air Cadets have the flight scholarships, Sea Cadets their tall ships... Army Cadets get some great exchanges, and Para.


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## elscotto937 (17 Jan 2004)

Caz, I think Franko was talking about "hopefully airborne soon" the whole CIC 2LT thing. Anyway, I agree with most things being said on this topic, Caz, it is a prized course much the same as the flying Scholarships.
Many people on here are talking about the same thing...
1.   Ref the CIC officer that supposidly did the jump course without the PT and assorted crap. Well, a couple of years ago the cadets who did the crse (and they did the crse) Did J-Stage with a Civy A/C because I believe the hercs were weathered out. That is where that situation could have come from.
2.    I think that we can all agree that the Jump course is a very demanding crse. But to different people it means different things. For the 17 year old cadets who complete the crse it is the pinicle of thier cadet careers, they have met the standards and they are the top in thier element, there is no higher that they could go as cadets. For the Reservist and Regular troops who complete the course it is a triumph, but only a small portion of a career, and although difficult, it is really only a skill set. Like a driver or gunner. For them, the real achivement is serving as a paratrooper.
3.    Finally, there was a Para Rescue crse offered to air cadets, I believe briefly in the 70‘s and the badge was still on the books in the mid-80s. Truthfully, I don‘t know what obtaining this badge consisted of.
On a side bar, I know a person who did thier jump crse while in cadets and after joining the regular force was on the SkyHawks team, no military free fall crse.... not real point to that just UFI


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## Roger (17 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Scott937:
> [qb]I know a person who did thier jump crse while in cadets and after joining the regular force was on the SkyHawks team, no military free fall crse.... not real point to that just UFI [/qb]


To join the SkyHawks you do not need to have any military parachute experience. This is from there sight.

"¢ Qualified Military Freefall Parachutist or hold an "Aâ ? certificate issued by the Canadian Sport Parachuting Association with a minimum of 50 freefall jumps;


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## Franko (17 Jan 2004)

Trap....
You may not NEED it....
But it will give you an edge to get in.

Jumpers are a close knit group, they know they can depend(most of the time) on the guy beside them. Think they are going to let in some yahoo who didn‘t do a jump course over someone who has? 

I don‘t think so.

Regards


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## Roger (17 Jan 2004)

Thisi s not going to battle, this is the SkyHawks. Go on ther sight.

 http://www.army.dnd.ca/skyhawks/main_e.asp 

You will see that almost half are reservists and that there are Air Force members. And I know a reservist who was a SkyHawks and was accepted and did not have his wings, but once finished he did and received his silver leaf.


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## Franko (17 Jan 2004)

And once his callout was done was he seen at the local Burger King with his wings on?    

‘nuff said

Regards


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

Hey...This sounds very familiar to me. I came across an air cadet in trenton this summer who said that he did his jump course...in Pet (?!?). I don‘t know what he was trying to pull, but he took the wings off soon after. Yes, it is a demanding course, and us guys who finished it-though we aren‘t reg force or have anything to do with the combat side of things-have tons of respect for the guys who do, and just to be able to wear something on our tunics representing our connection to other "real" jumpers is an honour.


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## Franko (17 Jan 2004)

There are no jump courses run in Pet. He was full of poo.

Regards


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

yeah, i kinda figured. BTW, hi Potter ( that‘s ChrisP)


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## Franko (17 Jan 2004)

Wait a sec....Ah yes! McBear‘s an 8th Hussar! Good to see you here! I used to belong to 3006 Dieppe 8CH way back in the ‘80s. Had a blast in that corps. Capt Comeau(Larry) still there? Probably not. I was posted out in ‘94. He‘s probably long gone by now.

Is RSM Pete Vaneinderstein still supporting the Hussar cadet Regiment or what?


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

Well, its a small world, eh? Larry‘s still there as CO; his daughter just aged out. Peter was my trgO till last year - moved back to the island ( personal reasons...email me on that one). he just retired after 36 years. He is now known as Ocdt VanIderstine. His son‘s a Cpl with channel 8 ( 8CH)...you guys get msn there?


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## Franko (17 Jan 2004)

Yep...and if you want to get in touch with me I‘m on the DIN...ensure that TFBH comes up next to my name.


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

I‘m not gonna lie to ya...i haven‘t a clue as to what DIN is. Can i access it? Ill just ad ya on msn....expect an add request from jmcjumper@hotmail.com


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

OK...i couldnt find your email...but back to the whole para thing. Just to keep it simple: as with the reg force, one member‘s opinion isn‘t that of everybody else. In this situation, Matt doesnt represent Chris and I‘s opinions.


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## Franko (17 Jan 2004)

Check your emails will ya McBear


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## Roger (17 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Franko:
> [qb] And once his callout was done was he seen at the local Burger King with his wings on? [/qb]


As a paratrooper I hold a high repsect for the Sky
Hawks, I do not know why you would say that, I am not a SkyHawk but I think they deserve a little respect, dont you?

Look at their schedule, see how many free fall jumps they do on a year. Also there is still a tough selection process.


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

Im thinking Franko meant that a jumper is just SO good, that he/she wouldn‘t have to work at said restaurant    . I have also come across a CIC officer with silver ( isn‘t it white???) leaf from serving with the sky hawks.


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## Roger (17 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by McBear:
> [qb] I have also come across a CIC officer with silver ( isn‘t it white???) leaf from serving with the sky hawks. [/qb]


When the Airborne Regiment came into existence 1968 to 1995. In order to honor the men who served with the CAR, you would be awarded a silver leaf that you would pin over the red leaf on your wings. Today they do not offer the silver pin, but do have wings with the "silver" white leaf. So it is correct to call it the white or silver. Mostly it would depend how old you are. The older wings had a yellow or gold leaf.


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## chalk1 (17 Jan 2004)

Ah. I had always been told to call it white. Thanks for the bit of history, trap.   ...Around when did they start making the dress wings with the white/silver leaf?


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## elscotto937 (18 Jan 2004)

Trap, I knew that would provoke some discussion, I didn‘t say that the person had no military jump experience, just that thier only formal "military" jump training came from doing the crse while in cadets. That person had some static line jumps with the military, and (I guess) alot of expirience Civi-freefall...They would have been the "or" in your quote.
And really, a reservist that didn‘t have thier wings at all and went to the skyhawks, that just blows me away....


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## Franko (18 Jan 2004)

Trap...go back to kickin‘ boxes if you can‘t take a joke.   

Regards


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## chalk1 (18 Jan 2004)

Havent we strayed a little from the original topic?


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## Franko (18 Jan 2004)

Just a tad.   

Regards


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## MikeM (18 Jan 2004)

To put it back on topic, I am hoping to attend the CF Basic Para course through cadets this year, my PT test is on the 27th of February.


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## chalk1 (19 Jan 2004)

Best of luck, bud. Know anyone from your area who took it last year?


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## MikeM (19 Jan 2004)

Didn‘t know anyone personally that went last year, although I had talked to a few of them prior to and after.

I knew a couple guys that did it in 2001 and 2002, including 2 of my past RSMs, I hope to follow in their footsteps hehe.


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## chalk1 (19 Jan 2004)

Cool.


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## Franko (19 Jan 2004)

Just remember not to reach...

Don‘t ask me what that means guys...he‘ll find out

Cheers


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## chalk1 (19 Jan 2004)

At the risk of sounding sadistic...BWAHAHAHAHA!  
But seriously, dont fret too much about it. Having the physical part of it helps. PT is only a small part of it. Dont worry about the other stuff; youll be taught that when you get there.


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## MikeM (19 Jan 2004)

Right on guys, thanks for the tips, keep em coming   

My buddies who have done the course are trying to give me some pointed for PT, but they pretty much say the same thing you guys do, "you‘ll learn when you get there".


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## Excolis (20 Jan 2004)

mike m.....   r u on cadet world???  your name sounds familiar


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## MikeM (20 Jan 2004)

Yes.


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## primer (21 Jan 2004)

Cadet world is down.Its good to see this room full of good topics.


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## Franko (21 Jan 2004)

Primer...you say you know Sgt Boudreau on other means. Mind letting me know how? I got your message and mistakenly deleted it...my bad. Things are hopping here in Bosnia...got distracted.

Regards


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## Excolis (21 Jan 2004)

mike... didn‘t you say that you completed para in 0304?   maybe i am mistaken,,if i am, i apologize....,,,


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## MikeM (21 Jan 2004)

Nope, I went to Banff last year.

You‘re thinking of Murphy and Potter on CW, they did 0304 BPara, aswell as someone else on CW, cant remember his name.

Are you still vying for the CIC position this year?


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## chrisp1j (23 Jan 2004)

Hey, hows it goin McMahon (Sorry if i F‘ed the spelling, i couldn‘t find my T-shirt, lol).


MikeM, have we met?


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## chalk1 (23 Jan 2004)

Hey bud. Dear Lord, he mentioned Murf...i fully expect to see the 4 horsemen come riding through  :dontpanic:


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## chalk1 (23 Jan 2004)

because even the back then, cavalry were the most destructive force...


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## Caz (24 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by primer:
> [qb] Cadet world is down.Its good to see this room full of good topics. [/qb]


Give it a week... Sylena is getting the new site up and running.

Different vibe here, though.  I very much enjoy the change of pace


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## MikeM (24 Jan 2004)

I don‘t know if we have met Chris, probably have seen each other at various regional competitions, I don‘t really know though.

Which QYR corps are you with?


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## chalk1 (24 Jan 2004)

Yep, the spelling‘s ok.


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## primer (27 Jan 2004)

There has been one CIC Officer that has served with the SKY HAWKS. A Captain James Seebe out of Montreal PQ...He got his wings as a cadet on the jump course back in the day...Who said dreams cant come true.


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## chalk1 (27 Jan 2004)

Yeah, met him in Connaught during my jump crse. How do you know him, Primer?


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## primer (27 Jan 2004)

I have had a few POPS with him when he was a Blackdown staff  back a few years ago now


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## primer (27 Jan 2004)

he worked with Trg Support Coy...


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)

Whats a POP? Good guy, though. After we returned from  Trenton, we had roughly a day and a half in (shiver) Connaught. He was possibly the only staff (besides our own) member there who treated para like we werent red stars (or at the very least, mature green stars.). Lucky for us, he was on duty our last night there. Who wouldve thought you could have a great idea like piling as many people as possible into a port-a-john ruined by a guy stepping in poo?


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## primer (28 Jan 2004)

When your 19 we will have a POP...


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)

...Isnt this illegal?


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## primer (28 Jan 2004)

Having a pop at 19 I dont know is it lol


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)




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## Caz (28 Jan 2004)

Personally, I don‘t want to hear about any cadets having ‘pops‘ anytime during training.

Remember your audience, folks...


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)

Precisely. CHAP! CHAAAP!


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## primer (28 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Caz:
> [qb] Personally, I don‘t want to hear about any cadets having ‘pops‘ anytime during training.
> 
> Remember your audience, folks...     [/qb]


I didt read anything about cadets DRINKING. The Question was were did I work with Capt Sebee. On one of my summers at Blackdown. I said that I have had a few POPs with him over that summer. Off working hours. I personally will file charges for anyone giving cadets BOOZE on cadet time...


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## chrisp1j (28 Jan 2004)

Disregard


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)

Sigh. We‘re all mature enough to realise what you were implying.Come on now, Im quite sure i wouldnt need to check whether im legal or not to have a pop...sorry, i forgot the over-emphasis which isnt implying anything at all...a POP.


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)

Back to para...any questions/comments/complaints before we waste any more of Mr. Bobbit‘s bandwidth?


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## MikeM (28 Jan 2004)

McBear, since I‘m planning on taking the Para course this year, what can you give me in regards to tips for PT and preparing myself.

I know what must be done to pass the PT, but I am looking to shoot way above the bar and push myself, I have several buddies who have done the J course and im trying to gather as much info as possible.


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## Disappointed9411 (28 Jan 2004)

evening, ex-cadet did para in 94‘ the last true hard@ss course before disbandment, lots to say


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## chalk1 (28 Jan 2004)

Well, i was running a good 10K before i left. Just dont overdo it to the point you get sick (like vomiting til ya get a nosebleed    ). I would come back to do a few sets of chinups on the monkey bars at a park down the street - good alternative if you cant or dont want to set up a bar in your house. After coming home and stretching a bit, i would do some pushups, then head out for a fast walk with a ruck on. I just threw one of those "just add water" cement mix packs into it, something like 65 Lbs, methinks. Just dont worry so much about it; youll have time to improve on it while in Connaught, bud.


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## chrisp1j (28 Jan 2004)

Run like ****. If you can run 10k non-stop, at a reasonably quick pace, you‘ll be fine. If you wan‘t to push yourself, the front pack runs at a decent cross-country race pace for just over an hour on the average afternoon run (when you stop to do pughups, stay out of the ditch as best you can...a bunch of us got nailed with poison ivy).  
Morning runs are shorter, but way faster (we‘re talking 3/4 sprint). 

Pay attention to detail, It will save you many pushups (not that they are a bad thing) and pissed off instructors (that=5th point in combat boots). 

If you can do bare minimum, you‘ll have a hard time(be able to at least pass the old test).


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## Disappointed9411 (28 Jan 2004)

you can do all the running and push-ups you want, if your head isn‘t together toast, it‘s not what you can do! it‘s what you can take! I was 17 when I did my course and had 45 yr old men beside me cryin there eyes out like lttle girl, push until it hurts, then keep goin til your body shakes and goes numb, then your half way there!


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## chalk1 (29 Jan 2004)

Um. No. If youve any idea of how to train physically, youll know that pushing yourself to the point of sickness is not the way to train properly. As for the 40-yr old men, i believe theyve earned the right and respect to NOT be compared to little girls, as im sure that I, without my meeting them, have MUCH more respect for them than for someone who would make such a ridiculous comment.


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## Disappointed9411 (30 Jan 2004)

It‘s guys like you that got the airborne regiment disbanded! gimme a break! this don‘t push yourself to hard garbage! is a joke, its frame of mind, "MATTER OVER MIND, CUZ THE MIND DON‘T MATTER" your right if all you aspire to be is the type of cadet they produce today, and even some of the soldiers they produce today as well, yes I‘ll agree, the course I did, easily 5 times harder! the last course taught by the RCAR, that course is one fraction of what it means to be a paratrooper! are you gona slow down when bullets are flyin! when your buddy‘s shot up and your draggin him and your kit to a RV, NO, why train other wise, and DON‘T give me this "but we‘re only cadets crap" it‘s a REG FORCE course and the standards are higher for cadets, for a reason!
"It‘s not how good you are, It‘s how good you can be!" ANYONE FEEL FREE TO REPLY GOOD OR BAD! lets hope things haven‘t changed for the wuss! I mean worse!


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## Franko (30 Jan 2004)

Hmmmm where to begin..where to begin one this one?

  Here we go!

Disappointed 9411...You are spouting an awful lot of slogans like a bad movie such as:

"push until it hurts, then keep goin til your body shakes and goes numb, then your half way there!"

" MATTER OVER MIND, CUZ THE MIND DON‘T MATTER"

"are you gona slow down when bullets are flyin!"

Are you for real? So you were on a jump course ran by guys from the RCAR right?

The standard was higher for cadets than for the Reg force students?

Here some news for you monkey........
The Canadian Airborne Regiment NEVER had the honour of having "Royal" grace their title by her majesty(not that they weren‘t deserving after their actions in WW2).

The standards are LOWERED for cadets( I know an instructor, and he‘s EX CAR)

And the whole"It‘s guys like you that got the airborne regiment disbanded!"   

If you worked alongside the fine troopers from the Canadian Airborne Regiment...you would at least put it down properly, as I have. 

You are a poser...a wannabe...a never be.   

Get lost kid...we know exactly WHAT you are....

Did you really think you‘d get away with this here?

YOU ARE DISMISSED!  :evil: 

Regards


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## Disappointed9411 (30 Jan 2004)

Interesting! well first of all, the standard for regs in 94 was the typ. 1mile, 33p, 7c, 40,. . .
the cadet standard was 4mile. . . . and they graduated with 20 less than us and there course was only 3 weeks and they got PAID, fail or pass, you belong exactly where you sit! on an APC, go for a RUN!!!

OUR MILITARY IS RUN BY GOLFERS AND NOT SOLDIERS!

its a shame


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## Franko (30 Jan 2004)

You are spouting off incoherent babble the likes of which I‘ve never heard.

Perhapse you "reached" on your"jump" course.

Don‘t forget kid...the standard is the MINIMUM standard.

Go away poser...just go away

Regards


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## Disappointed9411 (30 Jan 2004)

I know now, your still bitter after 15 years of service and probably some cadet time and still dont have your wings LEG!, anyway I‘ll leave it alone, I totally support any and all canadian soldiers! it‘s just to bad that our government has no clue how to run a military let alone a country, best of luck as the civilian clamp tightens!


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (30 Jan 2004)

You can‘t really call anyone a LEG if you aren‘t part of a Jump Company or were part of the actual CAR.


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## Disappointed9411 (30 Jan 2004)

I agree, but someone who‘s been in doesn‘t have to say a word


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## Franko (30 Jan 2004)

Guys, this idiot is ruining a perfectly good topic.

He‘s a troll, plain and simple.


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (30 Jan 2004)

I‘ve yet to see a Para Coy in the Cadet Corps.


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## Franko (30 Jan 2004)

Next thing we‘ll here is Disappointed9411 say he was on a cadet Leopard drivers course.   

Gents...he‘s a troll...ignore him/her

Regards


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## Disappointed9411 (30 Jan 2004)

not what I ment, but to please my fellow poster I will subside, and post like everyone else, train for para just a little more than what is needed, don‘t strain yourself, head to the MIR if u feel any discomfort, heaven forbid reach behind and expand your limit, what ever happened to gung-ho!
 all the best


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (30 Jan 2004)

You could always join the Canadian Hairsporran Regiment.  Our motto is, "I JUMP OUT OF BED!"


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## Caz (30 Jan 2004)

9411, they are teenagers, not soilders.

Get over yourself.

-R.


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## Franko (30 Jan 2004)

Thank you Caz. At least I‘m not alone here on this point.

Regards


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## chalk1 (30 Jan 2004)

gents, thank you much for the support. I didnt reply sooner due to my lack of caring for useless drivel, as well as sleep. But mostly sleep. So 9411, Guys like me are responsible for the disbandment, eh? I was 8-9 years old when that happened. Guys like me wouldve been, too. You sound like a cheap impersonation of a virgin Gunnery Sgt Hartman. Get a girl. Do us and yourself a favor, bless your face with the hot kiss of molten lead. Now, before you do, tell me why exactly you chose to refer to those men who defend your right to say this nonsense as "little girls." Then leave.


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## Franko (30 Jan 2004)

BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaa   

Good to see Jr Zipperheads have a sense of humour!

Regards


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## Matt0304 (30 Jan 2004)

Please explain to me how standards are lowered for cadets...

BTW, all of our instructors were EX-CAR.


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## chalk1 (30 Jan 2004)

Matt, this guy‘s course was so tough, they didnt use reserves...


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## Jason Jarvis (30 Jan 2004)

Speaking of reserves, I really gotta hand it to all you guys out there with your para wings. I only had to jump a round once, and that‘s because my main malfunctioned (my fault). I got to land a 26‘ Pioneer into a freshly plowed potato field. But you know what? Feet and knees together, turn to the side, hit and roll. Piece of cake.

I can‘t imagine doing that at night, in the rain (or the snow), with a 20 mph wind, loaded down with 100+ lbs of kit and weapons. And then be expected to fight like h*ll until relieved.

All I did was stand up, brush the dirt off, throw the canopy over my shoulder and walk back across the road to the airfield -- and then take orders for all the beer I owed that night.

No wonder army cadets want to take BPara -- there‘s nothing else out there that will test them any more than it will.


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## patt (30 Jan 2004)

Back when i was in Petawawa the Cadet core i was in used to jump out of the mock tower (i rember my last jump on it the jumpmaster came up to me and told me that was the best jab he has seen by a cadet) that was awsome! one year we had a jumpmaster teach us the skills of jumping, Flight procedures, and Landings.


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## chrisp1j (1 Feb 2004)

Jason, just out of curiousity, how was a malfunctioning main your fault. Turns and tangles are the only problems that you can really be responsible for...the rest is up to the riggers...how did it malfunction? (I‘m not being skeptical, just curious)

And the standards arent lowered officer aircadet and anyone else who thinks they are (you may know somone, but you weren‘t there), we did have to push ourselves as hard as he‘s said (just as hard as the regs, that trained right beside us. Please also note that they were mainly 3rd R22nd, who are now deploying to Astan). 

Think for a second, no reservist or reg force person will admit that our course was just as hard because they think it makes them look weak. Well, it was.


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## Jason Jarvis (1 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by chrisp1j:
> [qb] Jason, just out of curiousity, how was a malfunctioning main your fault. Turns and tangles are the only problems that you can really be responsible for...the rest is up to the riggers...how did it malfunction? (I‘m not being skeptical, just curious)[/qb]


It was a chilly day in May so I decided to jump with a nylon jacket on. The jacket had a drawstring bottom that I tied tight and tucked up inside the jacket. I had about 25 freefalls under my belt but was still jumping student gear, so my pilot chute was mounted my waist. The jump was fine, although my spot was a tad long; at 3000‘ I waved off and pulled. Things seemed to go into slow-motion a split-second later when I realized nothing had happened. I looked under my right arm to see my pilot chute flapping in the slipstream -- courtesy of a bright blue string wrapped around the toggle. Instead of trying to free it -- blasting through 2000‘ at the moment -- I looked for my reserve handle, grabbed it with both hands -- now going through 1500‘ -- and pulled. Whammo, beautiful 26‘ red reserve. It was kind of cool watching it mushroom, as I‘d never seen that before. I cleared the toggles, realized I wasn‘t going to make it over the road, and landed in a potato field.

The moral of the story? Don‘t take any chances and listen to your elders! If I tried to clear the pilot chute I might‘ve avoided the embarrassment of a reserve ride -- or I might‘ve had the AAD pop the reserve for me while I screwed around at 120 mph. Or the stupid AAD might‘ve mal‘d itself and I would‘ve been a human lawn dart. Before the jump someone asked me about the drawstring, and I told them I wasn‘t worried about it because I‘d jumped that way a half-dozen times with no problems. Skydivers being the happy go lucky types they are, he figured I knew enough with my "A" license to stay safe and he let it slide.

I got lucky in this case, and learned my lesson. Until I "retired" 200 jumps later, I never had any problems beyond the odd line twists. I made sure there was nothing loose on me or my kit, I was scrupulous when packing -- especially when stowing my lines -- and I always zeroed my altimeter. It must‘ve worked, because I was regularly asked to pack student parachutes later that summer and for several seasons after, and none of my pack jobs ever malfunctioned. The only time I saw my reserve on my own gear was when I helped repack it.

Skydivers have a saying, although I suppose it would equally apply to scuba divers, rock climbers and other extreme athletes: "There are old skydivers and there are bold skydivers. But there are no old, bold skydivers." Wise words to live by, IMHO. Blue skies!


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## chalk1 (1 Feb 2004)

It was civvy jumping, Chris.


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## Jason Jarvis (1 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by McBear:
> [qb] It was civvy jumping, Chris. [/qb]


Yes it was, and I‘d be the first one to deck somebody who claimed it was even close to BPara in terms of challenge or sweat equity. I always tried to sit close to any jumper with his military jumpwings -- Canadian, American or British -- not because I was a paratrooper wannabe, but because they were usually the most switched-on types on the DZ. I tried to follow their example.

And the point I forgot to make in my last post is that it was my TRAINING that saved my bacon. I only had 30 jumps when I had my malfunction (5 IAD + 25 FF), but I religously practiced my emergency procedures. And when I needed them to work, they did. I distinctly remember thinking, "Well that‘s not gonna work like that. No time to clear. Go for reserve." It was my judgement that was flawed.

I was 19 and thought I was bullet-proof, and I took a lot of crap for screwing that one up, but I learned from it and moved on.


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## elscotto937 (2 Feb 2004)

Yes, Jason you are probably correct, you can spot them even if they are not wearing thier wings... they are the guys with the bad back and bad knees


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## Excolis (2 Feb 2004)

lol.. holly did my topic ever get more off topic.. LOL...   i am glad to see that there are some interesting arguments going on though.


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## Matt0304 (3 Feb 2004)

lol...the guys with the bad back and knees...haha


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## sgt_mandal (7 Mar 2004)

I was just wondering, if you have to be an army cadet to get para wings and if so what kind of things can you do to prepare yourself?


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## chrisp1j (7 Mar 2004)

You have to be an army cadet...better transfer (btw: All of the paperwork has already gone in for this year‘s course, so try to get on a course next year if you really want). 

You also need to have your NSCE, which is an army cadet qualification. I don‘t think that your qualifications are transferable.


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## cdhoult (7 Mar 2004)

Depends on the region and your experience if NSCE will transfer. As a Sgt, not really....

Even if they offered it, I‘d do it anyway. You‘ll learn a lot.

CH


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## MikeM (7 Mar 2004)

Only Army Cadets can take it, nothing can be transferred.


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## cdhoult (8 Mar 2004)

Yes, BUT, the Region can grant equivilency.

CH


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## MikeM (8 Mar 2004)

They can, but it doesn‘t happen.


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## cdhoult (8 Mar 2004)

all depends on experience and the corps being transferred into . For the sake of experience, I‘d recommend doing it ANYWAY, but if let‘s say a WO1 is transferring over, has been in cadets for 6 years, has staff behind them, etc, I‘d see not a large issue. Maybe make them just write the GKT.

CH


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## MikeM (8 Mar 2004)

Doesn‘t matter , as far as I‘m concerned there are little spots as it is, its an army course, and we shouldn‘t be giving up any of our limited spots for other elements.

You don‘t see army cadets trying to do power or any sail exchanges, so the same applies to the other elements wanting to do para.


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## cdhoult (8 Mar 2004)

If he transferred, then he‘d be an army cadet, so it‘d be alright


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## sgt_mandal (8 Mar 2004)

lol. im still thinking very seriously about "gruntifying" myself. im into all that outdoor stuff which we don‘t do much in Air cadets. Maybe a weekend here and there but thats about it. I was asking this Question because i am goin to try for the QOR‘s Para Coy.


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## Sgt_McWatt (30 May 2004)

Hello, the summer of 2005 I am planning on attending para and was wondering for people who have done it. what is the most physically challenging thing? I have read some of the on line diary's and journals of para but I'd still like more info. I can do 12 chin ups, 70 push ups, 55 sit ups and I know I can run the qualification distance in the time allowed but still. I have a year to train what should I work on?


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## alexk (30 May 2004)

This has been talked about a billion times. 

If you can do that just keep fit, practice running LONG distances stoping once and a while and doing push up chin ups sit ups ect...


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## bdr hotte (30 May 2004)

yes is right you only need to run 1,5 km in 6;30
30 siht-up and 7 chain up


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## MikeM (30 May 2004)

Use a spell checker BDR, then get your facts straight.

Minimum standards are as follows:

7 Chinups, 31 Situps in a Minute, and a 1.6KM (1Mile) run in 7:30.

You should be shooting for the maximum amount of everything and the lowest time to ensure you qualify for the course, lots of cadets try for it.


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## Excolis (31 May 2004)

a


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## Sgt_McWatt (31 May 2004)

Thanks guys. ;D


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## Excolis (1 Jun 2004)

and east side, when you get your wings, you are airborne..   you just aren't a paratrooper.


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## Excolis (1 Jun 2004)

make sure your chin ups are straight armed...  thats all i can help with.   i am training myself to hopefully get ion that course asap...


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## Sgt_McWatt (1 Jun 2004)

East Side Soprano said:
			
		

> Cadets have a stupid obsession with Para. Para does not make you hardcore, being in a tough unit and having your **** together makes you hardcore. People assigned to logistics units can do the para course...airborne Quartermaster!!! Hooo-aahhh!!! Hardly seems all that hardcore. If some punk came to me showing off his wings telling me hes better than I am, I'd kick his a*s, wings or no wings. Don't waste your remaining summer in Cadets doing para is you didn't do an exchange and especially if your not gonna do reg force or reserves, its a waste of time. Otherwise you go on into civilian life with your wings, get fat, collect unemplyment benefits etc...be smart, don't do para for bragging rights, make the most out of cadets, do an exchange, travel the world for free, do para once your actually IN the army.



I understand what you are saying but I would not be saying this like that. I am from a Logistics corp. 2 years ago we sent a cadet to para and we are again this year. I plan to do it next year aswell. as well I don't believe that you can judge cadets by there affiliated unit. I had to chose betwen a good corp with Logistics as their affiliated unit of a slack corp with the 1st hussiars have the good corp. You cant judge by what the unit does.

thats just my 2 cents.


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## Sgt_McWatt (1 Jun 2004)

r than going to do para and having to use their boards make a difference? Should I train with a board instead?


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## Excolis (1 Jun 2004)

i personally find doing chin-ups with boards easier, because it keeps your wrist straight.  i would train with both.... use weights too, if you can do the chin ups with weight resistance, it will help you out a lot.   r u loaded on this summers course?


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## Sgt_McWatt (1 Jun 2004)

No I'm only 15 until July 29th so I can't get into it this year  :crybaby: But next year I will be going. Weight Resistance thats a good Idea thanks. How many should I be able to do with just me?


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## Excolis (2 Jun 2004)

the min requirment is 7. but they are straight arm.  all the way up and all the way down.....  i woulod do a lot of push ups too, i know they arent in the pt test, but you will be doing a lot of them on course...


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## girlfiredup (2 Jun 2004)

MikeM said:
			
		

> Minimum standards are as follows:
> 
> 7 Chinups, 31 Situps in a Minute, and a 1.6KM (1Mile) run in 7:30.
> 
> You should be shooting for the maximum amount of everything and the lowest time to ensure you qualify for the course, lots of cadets try for it.



If these are the min standards then I already surpass that.   I'm not tooting my own horn here but my point is this.. all I'm trying to do is make it to basic as a SigOp and what is frustrating me is there may be an issue with my med file.   Without going into great detail because it's personal, it's not even an issue and has no effect on me physically but because I answered "yes" on my med file (wanted to be honest) it could potentially hinder my chances of making it to basic at the end of this month.   Grrrrrr!


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## chalk1 (2 Jun 2004)

Okay guys...this topic has been beaten...nay...SLAUGHTERED in threads already. But just to satisfy your curiosity, we did normal chin-ups on pre-course in Connaught; 3 sets of 7 at first. The way this would work is the guys would make 3 lines for each bar. One at a time (and in our own time) we would do 7, then go back of the line, and eventually do another 7 when we made it to the front of the line, and so on until we did 3 sets total. It was upped during week to to 8 sometimes. Once in Trenton, you do 5 every time you go in and out of the CPC (Canadian Parachute Center) on a board. Muscular endurance (and endurance in general) is key. Best of luck for next year, Sgt_McWatt, and to you for this year MikeM.

Also, best of luck to you, GFU...hope you have a blast(no pun intended)


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## chriscalow (3 Jun 2004)

Well, I hope this helps.  With the exception of the initial p.t. tests, you will never do more than 25 push ups at a time, 5 chin ups, your probably not going to do any sit ups, and as for running it has been covered about 1000 times on this board.  If you pay attention to how I described what you will do, you will know that being able to do 70 pushups means absolutely nothing and you are wasting your time trying to increase that number, you will however have to do thousands of sets of 25 pushups.  So make sure you can do 25, stand up, get in trouble for something else, do another 25, stand up, hit the deck again for another 25 and so on, you wont do very many chinups, but during one of your classes, you will be using those muscles a lot more than you ever thought you could, try doing a chin up, and holding your chin above the bar for as long as you can, then under control come back down, do it again, then try it holding your legs out in front of you, bent at the waist at as close to 90 degrees as you can, and hold it.  See if you can stay with your chin up past the bar for eventually 10 minutes, 15.  As for situps, with the exception of the test at the start and occasionally during P.T., your not going to do them, instead you might want to read up on the 5 points of flight procedure, particularly the 5th point.  Also to make your life easier when you get there, try this, take a rope, loop it around one of your shoulders, down beside your groin, (make sure it is the same side as the shoulder that you started from), from there go across your back over the other shoulder and down on the other side of your "area".  Sit down and bring your chest to your thighs, tighten the rope and tie it off.  Stand up, if you can, now try the pushups and situps and running.  Imagine wearing it everyday for 3 weeks, and you will be gold.  Do not let the requirements for the P.T. test lead you to believe that this course will be easy in any way.  Good luck and I hope I helped at least a little bit.


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## Ranger (4 Jun 2004)

yeah, good luck Sgt McWatt...you'll get in, i have faith in you  ^-^


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## chriscalow (4 Jun 2004)

East side soprano has a point, although I don't regret doing the course, looking back, I probably should have planned ahead a bit.  Now, joining the regular force, infantry, I find myself almost wishing I'd gone to Scotland, or done MLE instead, just because now I realise that I'll get the chance to do Para, but maybe going on a cultural tour or going to Rocky Mountain, well unless I get a GD position or something, there's absolutely NO way that I'll have those opprotunities.  Sgt. McWatt, he is not bashing the Logistics, he is simply saying that its anyone's course, and just because you pass it, does not make you much more than a lot of people.  I was ALMOST just like he said about getting out of cadets and doing shit all,  I was working a factory job building car seats for Honda.  Someone asked me about my tattoo (wings), he said there is a guy who works in the back with the same one.  I went to go introduce myself, I got back there and it was a big fat (had to be pushing 300lbs) 20something, sweaty guy standing there.  That day I got off work and went straight to the CFRC in Toronto.  I almost totally wasted my wings on myself.  Since the course I gained about 25 pounds, I went soft.  That guy set me real straight, I've worked it all off and am now in better shape than I was when I did the course.  The moral of the story is plan ahead, and don't fail your wings, because when you realise you have, looking in the mirror is a lot harder than looking over the ramp at 1250' knowing that in about .2 seconds your steppin off.


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## Excolis (4 Jun 2004)

very well said...


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## Sgt_McWatt (4 Jun 2004)

Thanks guys for all the support. I'm not to scared about the physical side and more. A little scared about the mental side though and how I am going to convince my brain its OK to jump out of a plane. I guess Ill just have to not think about what I'm going for the first jump. After that I should get the hang of it.   Thanks again for all the help guys.


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## chriscalow (4 Jun 2004)

have you been loaded sir?


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## chriscalow (4 Jun 2004)

Listen bud, when it is your turn at the door, you're going to be so highly trained, your not going to know how NOT to jump.  Your adrenaline is going much faster than your brain, you will see green, hear go, and be halfway to the ground before you realised you jumped out of the aircraft.


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## vadeanu (25 Jun 2004)

I'm signing up for the PARA course soon.... I need some advice on the training that I need to do before going up there. I run alot in the mornings and work greatly on my pushups and abs. I've got gold fitness but i know that don't mean sh*t. I need some advice on weight training, because apperantly I need to train all my muscles to be able to survive Pre-Para. Anyone have any suggestions on which muscle groups I should work on or anything? I'm well aware that 7 chinups is the minimal requirements, as well as 40 pushups, the mile run in less than 7:30m, and the 31 situps. I know these requirements are simple, but the pre-para course will break you. I am currently working on PLFs (Parachute Landing Falls) off my shed.. one of my friends that did PARA has taught me those.. but I still need some advice on the physical training. Some advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## alexk (25 Jun 2004)

by singing up do you mean applied and got accepted for this year because if you didn't then its next year. 

All of this has been covered in the past. Extensively. 

I suggest you do a search before posting anything, 

cheers


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## vadeanu (25 Jun 2004)

Non of the other PARA forum topics covered weight training, but covered what's required and how to practice for it, such as doing chinups and holding them and crap like this. My question differed.


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## Sgt.Fitzpatrick (25 Jun 2004)

Good luck for all of you . I have one question do you have do be an army cadet to take this corse.


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## Excolis (29 Jun 2004)

yes you have to be an army cadet to do the course...


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## Excolis (29 Jun 2004)

just make sure you have good upper body strength.  be fit.   thats all.


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## Sgt.Fitzpatrick (29 Jun 2004)

Just go over the fitness test  by self you take for the badges.  :akimbo: :rocket: :dontpanic: :bullet: :skull: :mg: :sniper:


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## ChristopherRobin (2 Jul 2004)

Alright, I'll reply (my 2nd post here ever).

Are they still holding the pre-para course in Petawawa with RCR instructors? It's crazy to think I did my jump course almost 10 years ago. Here's what I did:

I started training almost 10 months before. Started with weight lifting (for power and strength) for the first 4-5 months and then switched over to more endurance and cardio training. Run as much as you can because that's the killer. It's all about the distance you can run. Speed is secondary.  For pushups, what I would do is every time I went into my bedroom, I would do 15 pushups. After a week, go up to 20...etc. Try to find a chinup bar or tree branch somewhere and make sure you can do about 12-15 at least if you're a big guy (like I was). Do situps regularily of course. You can probably get away with doing less and still pass but it's a lot more fun if you're ready (not that you'll be a 100% ready no matter what). 

In all honestly, the running is most important because you're running in the morning and afternoon for long distances. Pushups are important too because you'll get in sh!t a lot.


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## alexk (4 Jul 2004)

to answer your question, they do the pre para in Connaught, and im not shure if it is RCR instructors for ptre-para,


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## vadeanu (5 Jul 2004)

Thanks alot for all the replies.. ill work on everythin...


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## F/Sgt. Reid (5 Sep 2004)

Well, I'm kind of jumping onto the tail end of a rather legnthy topic, but what I was really wondering was if anybody has heard about air cadets attending Basic Para.   The reason I'm asking (asides the fact that its something I realy want to do) is because I've been told by a number of past para cadets and a few senior CIC officers that they have one open slot for 1 air cadet across canada.   This being said I haven't had any luck in trackinging down confirmed information on this or how I should go about submitting an application.   (Also it seems that one of the pre reqs : NSCE can only be done through the army element.   Therefore if anybody can enlighten me on this topic i would really appreciate it.

                                                               F/Sgt. Josh Reid   517 RCAC


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## alexk (6 Sep 2004)

No, if you want to jump out of airplanes go green 


do u ever hear of army cadets getting their pilot licenses??


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## Excolis (6 Sep 2004)

it is n army cadet only course ried.. sorry


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## Excolis (6 Sep 2004)

i gues the only way an air cadet could get their wings is if when the y turn 16 they join the reserves and stay as a cadet as well.  if at 16 you join the QOR for example, you could have your wings by the time you are 17-18 and if you have them in the reserves you could wear them on your cadet uniform as well.


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## sgt_mandal (6 Sep 2004)

You can't wear jump wings on an Air cadet uniform. I was talking to my CO and he said you can't.


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## Excolis (6 Sep 2004)

if you have your jump wings you can wear them on your uniform...  just like if i have my pilots wings i could have worn them if i was a cadet... the jump course is recognised by the CF and if you have the course you should wear them...  that is your CO not allowing it.   not the system, to what i understand


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## condor888000 (6 Sep 2004)

hopefully airborne soon said:
			
		

> it is n army cadet only course ried.. sorry



Untrue. 1 air cadet and 1 sea cadet go each year.



			
				hopefully airborne soon said:
			
		

> if i have my pilots wings i could have worn them if i was a cadet...



Not true. The ones permitted to wear the wings are those that have completed the course through cadets, or, those that completed the licence requirements privatly, but devote time to either work at a glider famil site, or take cadets up for power famils.


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## Inch (6 Sep 2004)

Just a note on the previous couple replies, CF Jump wings are worn regardless of what uniform you wear, there are certain qualifications that take precedence, CF pilot wings (not Cadet ones) are one of them. You wear the CF pilot wings on your left chest above the pocket and if you qualify for permanent retention you wear them there forever. IE, if I join the army reserves when I leave the reg force, I would still wear my pilot wings on the army uniform or if I joined the CIC air, I would still wear my CF pilot wings and never wear the cadet ones. If you have jump wings and pilot wings, mini jump wings are worn on the left breast pocket in DEUs. I'm pretty sure it's not optional whether or not you wear the badge, if you've been awarded the qualification you wear the badge, so an air cadet or sea cadet that had received their jump wings would be required to wear them. 

Cheers


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## alexk (7 Sep 2004)

condor888000 said:
			
		

> Untrue. 1 air cadet and 1 sea cadet go each year.
> .



Where did u get this information, im 99% positive that no sea cadets or air cadets go on the army army cadet parachute course 

could one of the members who is a cadet and done the Bpara course confirm this


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## condor888000 (7 Sep 2004)

1 in my sqn had it. This was a while back, around 2000 may not still be possible...


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## Excolis (8 Sep 2004)

as far as i know there are no spots for air and sea on the para course.  and i have known a few guys that have got their wings only a year after joining the QOR.


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## Sunnyk (8 Sep 2004)

There is no spot available for anything else then army cadet on PARA.

Now, the only possible way I can see (which might not be official version) is if they cant full the course with army cadets (which would not happen in a million of years), they might want to take other people on board. 

Get your act together people and consult the CATO (Cadet trg directives oreders) once in awhile. 
They are available on the Internet. 
They will tell you all the criterias for any courses in the Army cadet program.

Cheers


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## MikeM (9 Sep 2004)

There are absolutly positively no sea or air cadets on the damn cadet jump course, ITS AN ARMY CADET COURSE. I have not done the course as a cadet but I can assure you the oodles of friends I have that did the course in cadets did NOT jump with sea or air cadets.


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## Badda-Bing-Xing (11 Sep 2004)

Hi everyone, first of all I'd just like to say that reading all your posts had me feeling incredibly respectful and envious.
I just learned about the para course this past summer in Vernon, and I sencerely believe that I am meant for this course.   



			
				chrisp1j said:
			
		

> Run like ****. If you can run 10k non-stop, at a reasonably quick pace, you'll be fine. If you wan't to push yourself, the front pack runs at a decent cross-country race pace for just over an hour on the average afternoon run (when you stop to do pughups, stay out of the ditch as best you can...a bunch of us got nailed with poison ivy).
> Morning runs are shorter, but way faster (we're talking 3/4 sprint).
> 
> Pay attention to detail, It will save you many pushups (not that they are a bad thing) and pissed off instructors (that=5th point in combat boots).
> ...



I am pretty confused chris, I can indeed run 10k non-stop, there is a annual run here in Vancouver called the vancouver sun run, its exactly 10k and ive done it twice, my better time was 56min, I know that's not something to brag about but it's not too bad either right? .   But u mentioned that the front pack takes over an hour? 
Also, some of you mentioned that there is a new fitness standard now, i would really apprieciate it if any of you could provide me with some info/link on the current standards  
And one last thing, as of now, my training consists of a 2.4k run every day before school (it will certainly increase) and going to the gym after school.   Any comments or suggestion on that would be greatly apprieciated.

Thanks Alot!


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## chalk1 (11 Sep 2004)

I believe what Chris meant was that including the stops for push-ups etc and the many double left wheels on the runs, we went a little over an hour. 

Good on ya for keeping consistent with the training.


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## Badda-Bing-Xing (12 Sep 2004)

Oh that make it alot clearer McBear, thanks.
on the other hand... i apparently got a long ways to go :-\

If you could provide me with some info on the current standards, I'd be very grateful.
also, is it true that they dont allow ppl with glasses to go anymore?


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## redleafjumper (12 Sep 2004)

I was privileged to go on the Basic Parachutist Course as an Army Cadet a long time ago...   :warstory:
There has been some good advice provided about meeting physical requirements and so on, so I won't repeat it here.

One thing I would suggest is to make sure that you are mentally prepared.  If you enjoy activities like rappelling and
climbing, then you will likely be ok.  I recall that, other than injuries, the thing that rtu'd most candidates regardless of their physical abilities was an inability to trust the systems that they were using; trust their fellow candidates; trust the staff; and above all trust themselves.

Willingly throwing yourself out of an aircraft involves a great deal of trust.  Someone who has trouble trusting won't do well.  That said, it's a great course and anyone selected to go has already jumped through some major hurdles.  Have a good one.


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## Badda-Bing-Xing (12 Sep 2004)

thanks alot redleafjumper, no one has clearly brought up the issue of mental fitness until you did.
I've always loved climbing ever since i was in kindergarten,  and i think abseiling is pretty cool.

well youve been a great help, i will keep your words in mind.


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## armyrules (21 Oct 2004)

My friend is a MWO in his cadet corps and he told me that he had his para wings for the reg foece. But what I found funny was that he is only 16 years old. So how could he get his para wings for the reg force at only 16? is that even possible?


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## alan_li_13 (21 Oct 2004)

Yes


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## SEB123 (21 Oct 2004)

his wings are good for the reg


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## armyrules (21 Oct 2004)

how is it possible?


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## SEB123 (21 Oct 2004)

in cadets they show the minimum required for the basic wings but he doesn't have what it take to be an operational jumper


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## armyrules (21 Oct 2004)

thanx for helping me just asking cause my friend likes to tell tall tales thanx for your help SEB123


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## armyrules (21 Oct 2004)

thanx for helping me just asking cause my friend likes to tell tall tales thanx for your help SEB123  Are u in te CF yourself?


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## SEB123 (21 Oct 2004)

yes


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## Crazy_Eyes (21 Oct 2004)

How can you be minumally qualified but not operational?? ???, some one explain please?


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## SEB123 (21 Oct 2004)

there is different level of jump wings and to be operational you have to be in a jump company


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## MikeM (21 Oct 2004)

They lowered the age about a year ago to 16..


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## Doug VT (22 Oct 2004)

The Basic Para course covers the same content for everyone....Cadets included.   Everything else, such as roll-ups, DZ drills and RV drills are covered if and when you are employed in a hard para posn(Para Company)


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## Booya McNasty (22 Oct 2004)

It's arguably tougher for the cadets.  They do a three week pre-course before the B Para, to get them into shape, etc.  Three weeks at the CPC was enough for me.


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## armyrules (24 Oct 2004)

How long ago were u at CFC? was it really really hard?


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Oct 2004)

Doug,

Kudos for trying to help them, but as you should know by now, they won't listen and they'll just drive you friggin crazy ;D


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## Fishbone Jones (26 Oct 2004)

It's up to you guys to keep a lid on it. Just be civil when you do it.


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## Burrows (26 Oct 2004)

Perhaps if the cadets were able to be "in shape" and meet the CF requirements then perhaps the 3 week pre course would not be needed..its not harder...its just 3 weeks of PT to get these kids to be fit enough for the actual thing.


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## MikeM (26 Oct 2004)

You cannot get "fit" like that in 3 weeks..

If you are not fit enough when you get to connaught, you will be gone in no time. You need to be in good shape before you get there, or you can pack your shit and get on the bus.


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## Burrows (26 Oct 2004)

i understand that as well...i do beileve its a less of a get fit its more of a make sure theyre fit enough thing...


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## ouyin2000 (27 Oct 2004)

from my understanding, it is possible to achieve para wings *as a cadet* at 16 years old, at least i know in BC it might be

the way it *should* work is this:

12 years old - Basic Cadet
13 - Cadet Leader
14 - CLI course
15 - NSCE in spring break and then another CLI course
16 - Pre-para course over spring break then Para that summer

this is the only way I would see it possible to achieve this

also, there are 2 level of para wings achievable, one is the white wings which everyone achieves after they complete the Para course, meaning they are qualified to jump out of an airplane...this is the only cadet acoutrement able to be transferred to a Reg force/reserve uniform. the other is the Red Wings, which denotes someone has jumped in action, hence Operational Wings.

if i am wrong about any of this (yes it is possible) please correct me ;D


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## THEARMYGUY (29 Oct 2004)

Actually I think you got it backwards.  White for operational and red for qualified B Para.  Feel free to disagree.  Cadets wear only the red leaf wings.

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


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## chalk1 (29 Oct 2004)

Here's how it worked for me. I completed my NSCE in 2002 and did Maple Leaf Exchange. One year later (2003) I did the fitness test for the CF Basic Para course. I passed that, next thing was a CF medical. After this is passed, a few weeks later I was in Connaught along with forty-nine other candidates including one CIC officer.

        The fitness test was administered the first monday morning, the second monday morning and finally the last friday morning. The results of the final testing determines whether the candidate goes to CFB Trenton ( location of the Canadian Parachute Center -> CPC ). If he or she fails, all attempts are made to employ them in a staff position. The days between these testings are full of training. Ususally a day would begin at 0550 for PT, which was begun with sets of chin ups then a long run, followed by push ups and so on. The day would usually involve two major activities, one being citizenship/orientation based, the other fitness related, and finally afternoon PT every day at 1600. During my pre-course time in Connaught, we toured a museum at CFB Petawawa, visited parliament/viewed the changing of the guard, met and were spoken to by Pvt. Jan de Vries (veteran of the 1st Cdn Para bn of WWII ), and the CF tried to recruit us too. As for the fitness training of a day: some weights, obstacle course, ruck march, many sports and swimming.

        Once at the CPC in Trenton, you are treated much differently. You are now in the tender care of a course WO and three section commanders who are all veterans of the Canadian Airborne Regiment and are also members of an operational jump company. These gentlemen train you to   the same standard as Reg Force candidates with exacting precision. The day begins at 0445 for morning PT and ends with PT. There are eight classes a day, with a short break between for water and a quick sit. There is no walking, all mouvement is made in double time. A helmet and harness is worn at all times. The day's training ends when afternoon PT is done. There was no training on weekends. If you complete the course you have earned the qualification to wear jump wings with a red maple leaf. This does not mean that you are an elite paratrooper, but that you are a qualified parachutist, able to jump out of an aircraft by military standards. From what I do know ( and I dont profess to be a know-it-all), jump wings with white maple leafs are earned after having served two years ( ? ) with an operational jump company. Mere heresay has impressed upon me that this is no easy time, and this time is not spent with any lily-livers.

        Cadets can attempt their NSCE and Basic para once they are 16 years of age; this is true. However I would suggest that you take a year to go on exchange or Rocky Mtn first, as these are greatly enjoyable times full of valuable experience and superior training.

        As for this idea of trouncing upon "cadet paratroopers" for thinking "we" deserve more respect...

This is merely a feeble-minded half-witted attempt by those who cannot adequately pinpoint a loudmouth. I do realise that of late there had been certain members who have completed their jump course as cadets making outrageously ridiculous statements, but don't attempt to gain the favour of the masses by creating a stereotyped scapegoat for your arrogant pleasure. I, as well as other jumpers with whom I completed my course, attempt to be mature, responsible and fair leaders in a humble manner. I greatly dislike this notion of painting all of us with the same colour. Other than that, I hope this answers any questions. Again, I do not mean to sound as though I know it all when it comes to the Reg Force side of things; I can only speak for what Ive done.


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## THEARMYGUY (29 Oct 2004)

Well written response.  You are a true professional.  Others can learn from your willingness to explain your side and still remain thoughtful and logical.

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


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## brihard (29 Oct 2004)

Hey, good post- I'm looking at doing my CF Basic Para course next spring (I'm an Infantry reservist), and this post gave me some of the info I was looking for. Glad to see that not all the cadets who find the internet make fools of themselves- I remember from my time in cadets that we had a lot of those kinds of tools in our unit, even at the senior NCO level. With an attitude like yours, though, I hope you end up joining the forces. We need people like you.


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## catalyst (29 Oct 2004)

Yes, very well thought out post there. 

So a CIC officer can take the para course as well (hey - thats one cic officer amoung us who's fit).

Perhaps Burrows can add this to the FAQ.


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## Burrows (29 Oct 2004)

Asked and done.


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## Sgt_McWatt (30 Oct 2004)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> from my understanding, it is possible to achieve para wings *as a cadet* at 16 years old, at least i know in BC it might be
> 
> the way it *should* work is this:
> 
> ...



This was already corrected as to ed being basic para and white donating having served in the airborne regiment or a jump company. However there is more, there are more than two levels of para. 
-Baic parachutist,
-Free Fall,
-Jump Master etc....


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## ouyin2000 (30 Oct 2004)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> from my understanding, it is possible to achieve para wings *as a cadet* at 16 years old, at least i know in BC it might be
> 
> the way it *should* work is this:
> 
> ...




ok i do appologise for makung the error of the red and white wings. Thank you for correcting me, and a very nice post by McBear. I enjoyed that, and even though I will not be able to take the course through cadets, i will most likely attempt it through reserves


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## catalyst (1 Nov 2004)

Have their been any female cadets who have taken and passed para?

Also, does anyone know how a CIC officer goes about taking it (I tried searching for it in CATOs, etc but couldn't find it). I'd be interested to know what the standards are and how they're chosen.


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## Sgt_McWatt (1 Nov 2004)

I know one that could have. The "one female cadet" that was refereed to earlier on is CI. Ianoviskia. She failed by one chin up because she had slimmed down for prom. She was ready to go the next summer and had trained even harder but they wouldn't send her again.
Regards,


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## chriscalow (2 Nov 2004)

Catalyst.. I remember when applying for summer employment at connaught, they either had the posting, or a link to the advanced camp postings.. You are looking for escort officer I assume (that is the one that does the course with the cadets.) there are also positions for course Officer Commanding, and a 2ic Trg O position.  Hope this helps you off in the right direction.


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## chalk1 (2 Nov 2004)

Don't worry Piper, I understand exactly what you mean ;D

As for females on course, our escort officer and one cadet were of said sex. In fact, they were both on Maple Leaf the year before.

Brihard, your wishes shall soon be true.

Also, I appreciate the comments but please stop...don't praise common sense, just try to practice it...please?


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## Bograt (2 Nov 2004)

When I was in Trenton this past summer for ACS I recall seeing cadets going through the jump program. One particular afternoon, the uniformed cadets poured in to the Yukon and lined up. They then began it curse and slap each other in the face. I was left puzzled. Did I just see witness this? Is this acceptable? 

After coming home, I discovered army.ca. A couple of months ago, a cadet pronounced the injustice of DND for denying him and his mates their "Jump Wings" after they were caught drinking. Earlier in this post a question was asked whether a female had past this year. The response was, "1..... just barely."

I don't know if it is a question of maturity or if the para harnesses are on too tight, but there is an unsettling attitude present that I would have hope would be screened out. 

I am sure that my experiences with this proud tradition does not reflect the vast majority of those who earned the right to wear their jump wings. However, my very limited exposure to this course has not been positive. 

May I suggest serve with pride and humility. There are many more who served before you and their shoes are very big. 

Cheers,


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## THEARMYGUY (2 Nov 2004)

Catalyst.  See if you can find more info from Cadets.ca.  I (don't quote me on this) believe that the CIC para involvement is a three year deal.  The crse Officer was the crse 2IC the previous year and 1 crse officer who takes the crse themselves for the first time.  The crse officer returns as the 2IC the following year with the previous 2IC as the OC.  This is only hersay and I would not be upset to be corrected if I'm wrong.  Good luck to you Catalyst.  Para is a tough course, however it's not impossible.

Cheers!! 

The Army Guy


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## armyrules (3 Nov 2004)

So a jump course is almost imposible to get into?


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## chrisp1j (3 Nov 2004)

Hi McBear, good to see you again. 

As far as getting your jump course in the reserves: with the QOR, once you are a trained soldier, you can throw your name on a list. It would seem that most competant soldiers get the oppertunity to go (and some cannot due to work, so I'd suggest joining early enough that you could do the course while in school, etc.) as we have many spots.

During the jumps in CAC2004 I was lucky enough to be placed under the direction of a Lincoln and Welland jumper who mentioned that they had the slots, but were having trouble finding soldiers to fill them all (the increased number of spots was beacause the unit was looking at possibly forming a jump coy). To my knowledge, the jump coy has not yet happend. 

My course, done through cadets, had one female pass, and one female not pass. It is the same course that was referred to in 0304's post as "passing barely" (or somthing to that effect). She did a fantastic job, and was a competant parachutist when we finished, the same as every other person on that course who passed. I too had to do a PO check retest (as did many other course candidates), and that does not constitute poor preformance on the course or an "almost passing" grade. 

Potter.


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## 4CDO PARA (6 Nov 2004)

The QOR Para Coy has a female paratrooper. Anyone who has trained with her will attest to the fact that her gender in no way inhibits her abilities. She outsoldiers a LOT of troops, paratroopers and infantrymen alike.


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## armyrules (10 Nov 2004)

nice post chrisp1j  thankx for the info will look into it


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## CplWagner (12 Nov 2004)

does anyone know if you are still aloud to to para if you have glasses??
alright thankz


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## Sgt_McWatt (12 Nov 2004)

If your vision isn't perfect 20/20 you may still get accepted however if you need glasses I am pretty sure you cannot go However I am not positive so feel free to correct me anyone.
Regards,


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## 4CDO PARA (13 Nov 2004)

There is no course specific medical for Basic Para. If you got into the CF, pass the Para PT test, you can get onto BPara. There are lots of jumpers who jump with glasses ( you just tie them off with 80 lbs test ).


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## CplWagner (13 Nov 2004)

There is no course specific medical for Basic Para. If you got into the CF, pass the Para PT test, you can get onto BPara. There are lots of jumpers who jump with glasses ( you just tie them off with 80 lbs test ).
-ABN RFN

what is the 80lbs test? and would you be able to do para if you had eye surgery?
thankz alot
-Troy


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## alexk (14 Nov 2004)

i believe its a line that can support 80 Lbs


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## 4CDO PARA (14 Nov 2004)

80 lbs test is cord used in parachuting and yes you can jump if you have had laser surgery.


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## primer (15 Nov 2004)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> Have their been any female cadets who have taken and passed para?
> 
> Also, does anyone know how a CIC officer goes about taking it (I tried searching for it in CATOs, etc but couldn't find it). I'd be interested to know what the standards are and how they're chosen.



I have known two  female cadets that has passed the CF Basic para course. One is Is a CIC Maj cant remember her name. Lt S Perterson (CIC) she passed her course 5 years ago. I still remember Scotty Collons talking about her on that course she had the heart of a lion..


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## redleafjumper (15 Nov 2004)

There have been several female cadets that have successfully completed the Basic Parachutist course as cadets.  I knew one from Quebec who jumped in the 1980's and later became a CIL officer in Quebec City.  As I recall she also had the gold Duke of Edinburgh's Award.
There have been several (males and females) who took the course and were unsuccessful through no fault of their own.  It is important to realize that being able to jump out of a plane doesn't mean that you are any better than anyone else; it just mean that you have confronted and defeated a fear within yourself (or were at least able to hold yourself together long enough to get your wings!)

Redleafjumper


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## F/Sgt. Reid (22 Nov 2004)

In regards to my previous question:

     *Thnks to everyone that tried to help.

*After quite a bit of digging around I discovered that there was a time when Air Cadet and Sea Cadets were able to apply for Basic Para.  Recently (as in the last 3 or 4 years) Regs. were changed and it is no longer possible. (Something about army cadets complaining about not having enough individual representation of their proper element...) : .


              Thnks Again.

                                         F/Sgt. Reid


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## Servicepub (22 Nov 2004)

In 2003 a female cadet from the GGFG successfully completed the course. She was the first female grad in 4-5 years. She is now in her 1st year at RMC.


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## redleafjumper (25 Nov 2004)

The Basic Parachutist course is the same course whether you do it as a cadet or as a soldier.  In fact there was one regular master corporal and one reserve Lieutenant on the course I took as a cadet course.  In some ways the cadet course is more challenging due to the pre-para training that make the whole process longer.


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## McG (5 Dec 2004)

ARMYboi69 said:
			
		

> How is the Para easier to take through Cadets then with the CF?


It is not.  As was stated, it is the same course.  Cadet serials often include regular and reserve force personnel on course with the cadets.


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## joeybanfield87 (7 Dec 2004)

hi my name is joey banfield i am a member of 3057 army cadets and i was wandering could someone with epilepsy take the basic parachuting course???? please i need answers on this


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## 4CDO PARA (7 Dec 2004)

HHHhhhhmmmmm..... good question. Unfortunately I do not have a positive answer for you on that one, anybody else know? If I had to guess, I would say that without a letter from your Doctor stating that you are capable and have not been affected by seizures during a predetermined length of time before the course, probably not.Like I said, this is only a guess.


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## joeybanfield87 (7 Dec 2004)

well i was told i had epilepsy in dec.3 of 2003 i have been seizure free for 1 full year i hope all i have to do is get a paper signed from my doctor then i can go and try the course which i want to complete so bad anyone else have any information?


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## catalyst (7 Dec 2004)

Send a message up to your TrgO and Co through the CoC asking htem. if they dont know they can go to your RCSU.


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## D-n-A (7 Dec 2004)

redleafjumper said:
			
		

> In some ways the cadet course is more challenging due to the pre-para training that make the whole process longer.



Cadets aren't the only ones who go through Pre-Para. A buddy of mine(army reservist) did Pre-Para before he went on his jump course.


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## joeybanfield87 (8 Dec 2004)

does anyone know the exact physical fitness activities like number of chinmups, pushups, situps that have to be done for a cadet to pass the pfysical part and also they still have the 1.6k run in less then 7:30 right? and if so is it all flat land or is there a hill or two in it


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## 4CDO PARA (8 Dec 2004)

No idea about the Cadet Pre-para course, but the basic para pt test on day 1 of your Bpara at Trenton is a pretty flat stretch from the CPC hangar, up the road, around the corner and back. ENJOY!


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## QY RANG 2 (9 Dec 2004)

Can the mach tower give you a better chance at qualifying for the para course!


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## 4CDO PARA (10 Dec 2004)

I assume you are referring to the "Mock Tower", although I do like the way you put it also.. Mach tower, priceless. In my experience, I was very surprised at how many people we lost on the Mock tower. There were some very competent, fit and keen soldiers that simply could not manage the tower. Any degree of pre-course experience with the tower has to be considered highly valuable. Some people just can't hack the 32 foot "psychological height of fear" and others treat it like an amusement ride. It all depends on the individual.


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## chriscalow (10 Dec 2004)

Having "mock tower qualifications" will not mean anything when the time comes for you to apply for the course.  But should you pass selection, you will have a definite edge when the course comes to the mock tower phase.


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## QY RANG 2 (10 Dec 2004)

Where are mock towers currently in operation. Besides CFB Meaford.

Also, is 32 feet standard for all mock towers? do they get any higher?


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## 4CDO PARA (10 Dec 2004)

There are Mock Towers at Petawawa and Trenton, I have used both. I believe 32 feet is the standard.


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## chrisp1j (10 Dec 2004)

As far as the epilepsy... You will go for a small CF medical before the course as does everyone (assuming they don't ding you for it during the paperwork selection process), and if you can convince the doc you will be fine (ie, get a note from your civvie doctor saying they have stopped), he'll write you a nice little chit reading "fit for parachutist course" or something to that effect. The worst that can happen is that they say no, and if you don't shoot, you can't score....

There would also be towers in Valcartier, and out in CFB Edmonton...I don't recall there being a mock tower in Meaford (and Meaford is a range/training area, and isn't designated a CFB). You may be thinking of the rappel tower. Mock towers look like this: http://groups.msn.com/1955CalgaryServiceBattalionAlumni/exercises.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=26

Good luck


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## armyrules (13 Dec 2004)

Is it true that if you wear glasses that you can't participate in the para course? Thankx for all answers


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## Inch (13 Dec 2004)

armyrules said:
			
		

> Is it true that if you wear glasses that you can't participate in the para course? Thankx for all answers



For the love of Jebus, look back 1 page and you'll find your answer. Search my son, search.


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## MCpl ??????? (20 Mar 2005)

what are the qualifications for the army cadet para course


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## Michael OLeary (20 Mar 2005)

Basic Parachutist Course for Army Cadets & CIC: Question & Answer

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25424.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced


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## vadeanu (28 Mar 2005)

hopefully airborne soon..

how was the course for ya? did you make it? post details please...


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## primer (30 Mar 2005)

ABN RFN said:
			
		

> There are Mock Towers at Petawawa and Trenton, I have used both. I believe 32 feet is the standard.



There use to be a tower at Ipperwash way back in the day


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## Excolis (31 Mar 2005)

VADEANU: i passed all my tests to qualify, but i dont think i got chosen.  i should have known by today.  oh well, there is always next year to try again.   i guess i have to keep training now.


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## Badanai (31 Mar 2005)

primer said:
			
		

> There use to be a tower at Ipperwash way back in the day



not a mock tower there was a rappel tower there. now the Native indians use it lol


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## my72jeep (31 Mar 2005)

Cutter2001ca said:
			
		

> not a mock tower there was a rappel tower there. now the Native indians use it lol


It was a mock tower way way back if you remember the concrete anchors a few hounded yards away where the lines attached. I did see a pic from the 50's with guys doing para trg on it.


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## primer (31 Mar 2005)

I remember seeing the same pic. When I was there as a cadet they told us that it was a Mock Tower at one time


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## Sgt.Mitoff (31 Mar 2005)

Would you say the American Army Airborne school is physically more demanding than the canadian course or about the same.? i heard the US one is only three weeks!! As for preparation, an old CSM from my corps did the cadets para course and advised to go to a civilian jump school first to get used to the heights and getting out the door of a perfectly good plane, i think the Toronto skydiving school near wasaga beach offers static line jumps, which i guess are similar to the dome shaped military parachutes


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## chriscalow (31 Mar 2005)

The jumping isn't the hard part.  I would advise you spend the money on good running shoes, and use them lots before you go.  When the time comes to jump, if you make it that far, there is no way anything is going to keep you on the plane, its just too damn hot and cramped in there lol!!


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## aesop081 (31 Mar 2005)

Sgt.Mitoff said:
			
		

> ...i heard the US one is only three weeks!!



So is the canadian course.......so whats your point ?


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## alan_li_13 (1 Apr 2005)

> i think the Toronto skydiving school near wasaga beach offers static line jumps, which i guess are similar to the dome shaped military parachutes


My physics teach was a pilot for them, they dont have static lines, all freefall.

Hey chrisp1j, hows it going. We just did our PT test and medical for the cadet para not long ago.

EDIT: By the way, if anyone is interested/wondering/cares, the Escort Officer this year will be a female. Most awsome officer ever!!!


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## vadeanu (1 Apr 2005)

hopefully airborne soon, what makes you think u didnt get chosen? give me details on your physical tests and your performance. I too am taking it next year , or the year after, and i need some info man!! what did you do there? where did you take the pre-course?


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## Badanai (1 Apr 2005)

primer said:
			
		

> I remember seeing the same pic. When I was there as a cadet they told us that it was a Mock Tower at one time



really wow thats for the histrory lesson I did not know that. The last time I was there we were looking to kick the Natives out.


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## Jonny Boy (1 Apr 2005)

rifle_team_captain_13 said:
			
		

> My physics teach was a pilot for them, they dont have static lines, all freefall.
> 
> Hey chrisp1j, hows it going. We just did our PT test and medical for the cadet para not long ago.
> 
> EDIT: By the way, if anyone is interested/wondering/cares, the Escort Officer this year will be a female. Most awsome officer ever!!!




ya she is a pretty good officer. tiny but fit.


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## Excolis (4 Apr 2005)

the Parachute School of Toronto does have static line, thats where i have done all my jumps.

as for why i didnt get picked, it is hard for an officer to get on the course.  they only take one officer from accross canada that gets to take the para course with the cadets.  i did the run in 7:05 10 chin ups and the sit ups were a joke.   i guess i have another year to try and shave the run down by 30 sec.


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## street (4 Apr 2005)

i go to the test at the end of april.... right now i did 9 chin up and y run the 1.6 in the 5m 45 sec
do you think i will be picked up?


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## chrisp1j (5 Apr 2005)

Rifleteamcaptain:

Excellent, PM with the details of who, and how well each person did...good to see you guys carrying on the traditions, we should set up a plaque or somthing.


hopefullyairbornesoon:

Unfortunately, as you stated, only one CIC officer is chosen for the course every year. I know that quite a few apply, and I remember hearing about some of their qualifcations (i.e. biathalon runners, etc.).With that in mind, keep working on it, and good luck. 

street:
its dependent on your NSCE scores, and situps as well. No one can give you an educated answer without those two things. 


Mr.P


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## Trooper (9 Jun 2006)

I recently joined an army cadet corps here in Toronto. I'm 15.

I would absolutely desperately _love_ to take the basic parachutist course.

I'm not going to camp this year (I joined too late to apply) which means that I have three summers before I retire to achieve my goal. I've made the assumption that I won't be doing basic summer training next year, but will be fast-tracked to CL as another cadet in my corps has been (he joined last January at 16).

I'm a determined girl. I would just like to know exactly what the qualifications necessary to take the course are, and how I can start preparing. 

I'm wondering:

Who should I talk to in my corps? 
How does one apply for the course? 
Are many people rejected?
What are the fitness standards that are expected?
What can I start doing now to make it easier for me to be accepted in the future?

Thanks for reading.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Jun 2006)

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25424.0.html


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## qyrang (17 Jun 2006)

Just for reference, that female officer is Capt. XXXXXXXXX of the 337 Queens York Rangers and she told me that to survive para, you need 50 push-ups 50 sit-ups 1.6km in under 7:00mins and 10 chin-ups. I'm currently doing 6:30 for the run, 50 sit-ups, 25-30 push-ups, and 3 chin-ups. I am a runner. Nothing else but I'm only 14 so I have a few years. If anybody who is going to Blackdown this year, and wants to train, PM with some info and exercises. 
      Thanks, Geoff

Mod note: No names, no pack drill


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## Otar (3 Sep 2007)

I am in cadets (Har har) and I am applying to do my basic parachutists course this year (As I was unable to last year due to complications).   So I am some what out of shape and I would like to ask for the help of anyone who has completed this course in telling me what to expect PT wise, actual training wise, mind games, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated as I would really like to jump and do everything possible to help me do so.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Sep 2007)

Start here, and commit yourself to doing 50 pushups before asking any question without starting here.


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## Otar (3 Sep 2007)

I couldn't find anything with the information I was looking for but thank you anyway.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Sep 2007)

Well, I searched using the terms -->  parachute course training  <-- and limiting the search to these boards:  "Training", "Cadets/CIC", and "Camp". And I found these:

Basic Parachutist - in Cadets / CIC
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/44957.0.html

Basic Parachuting Course - in Cadets / CIC
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17185.0.html

Jump Wings - in Cadets / CIC
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/4298.0.html

Basic Parachutist Course for Army Cadets & CIC: Question & Answer - in Cadets / CIC
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25424.0.html

... and a few more

That last link above one has 22 pages of posts.

Now, start here next time.


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## GUNS (4 Sep 2007)

Push-ups. I still owe Sgt. Clark about 1000 of them from my 1970 Jump Course.

Not sure if they still do it today but don't throw your pop cans away, got my first 50 push-ups for doing so. :warstory:


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## mudrecceman (4 Sep 2007)

It's been a few years since I took the course but...

Get in shape.  Pushups.  Situps.  AND chin ups.  Do chin ups.  

The first morning on my course, we did the PT test.  A run, pushups, situps and...chin ups.

Don't pass the PT test?  There was NO retest.  You were gone gone gone, no questions asked.

Chin ups are important.  You will need to be able to do chin ups to pull slips (steer the parachute by reaching up, pulling on 2 of the 4 risers, depending on which way you want to try to "steer".  You effectively have to pull the weight of your body and kit up like a chin up and, if you can't lock your elbows behind your reserve, you will have to hold it...).

About the course?  I did not take one note on paper.  You have to know it in your head, period.  Aside from PT, our course consisted of POs in Aircraft Drill, Landings, Flight (hanging in the racks and your harness, ALL kinds of fun) and Equipment.  

Week 1, ground week.  Week 2, tower week.  Week 3, jump week.  Once we completed our PO checks, we just waited for a Herc.

About the training, you have to be 100% every day.  You will probably do the "how many glasses of juice/water/ etc can I drink at dinner" game (we were too active physically to eat much at dinner...) and, IIRC, it was incredibly hard to stay up past 2000 at night due to fatigue.

It was by far probably 3 of the best weeks I spent in the army.

And  you will get to know one word very well...

"JAB!"


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## Armymedic (4 Sep 2007)

Otar said:
			
		

> So I am some what out of shape and I would like to ask for the help of anyone who has completed this course in telling me what to expect PT wise, actual training wise, mind games, etc.



If you are "some what out of shape", I would not expect to be in Trenton for very long, if you get there at all. You need to easily meet and exceed the PT test standard.


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## mudrecceman (5 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> If you are "some what out of shape", I would not expect to be in Trenton for very long, if you get there at all. You need to easily meet and exceed the PT test standard.



Unless things have changed, we had to pass a PT test at the home unit before even being considered for the course.  First thing we did after arriving at (then) CABC was...a PT test Monday morning.  Those who didn't pass it were removed from course and RTU'd at unit  expense.


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## Otar (5 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> If you are "some what out of shape", I would not expect to be in Trenton for very long, if you get there at all. You need to easily meet and exceed the PT test standard.



I still have eight months to prepare, I can still meet every entrance standard with the exception of the run, but I'd like to greatly exceed said standards.  And I am sure eight months is more than enough time to do so.


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## vadeanu (6 Sep 2007)

I suggest strengthening your hands, fingers, and forearms... you'll have plenty of cramps in your fingers and forearms from the dozens of slips you will pull in the flight room, or from tightening equipment straps (which will never be tight enough for the PIs either way but maximum effort must be demonstrated). Learn to stretch all the muscles in your body and get flexible, you need flexibility to avoid the many injuries you may be prone to. Mentally prepare yourself as well, and don't do stupid things on the course that may get you kicked out. Best of luck!

Cheers


----------



## TVIRUS (4 Jan 2009)

Hi There,
I am 16 and have been seriously thinking about enrolling for the RCAC "Para" Course. i know that there is a full list of requirements inorder to be accepted and pass the course and get your jump wings. so if any body has any info on the requirments for it (mainly the physical Fitness requirements) please send me the link or reply.

thanx a bunch guys


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## scottyboy12 (4 Jan 2009)

well i just did the basic para this past summer. the PT requirment is that you must pass the Basic Parachutist PT test. it consists of being able to do 7 chin-upsI(be able to do at least 12+) 31 situps non stop(be able to do approx 100 for the easyest time) and a 1 mile run in 7mins30secs(push yourself to get under 6 mins to not be on the watch list.) just dont work on those 3 things, be able to do endless pushups in sets of 25 or more. and also do various other abs workouts and pullups/lat pulls to get the desired strength in your arms and back. the medical requirments are also fairly strict. it is optimmum to have near perfect vision but you can have up to V3(not sure how poor that is) and not be colour blind. also your hearing has to be at best shape as possible. then is a general med. checkup. pretty well jsut make sure your body as at its best condition possible for when you go in for your medical which will most likely be done at a military base.  if you live in BC then you have to go through a Pre-PARA which is one week (of hell) spent up at VACSTC during spring break where you are tested on your physical fitness and put through various PT tests throughout the week. you must pass this to be eligeble for the actual course. best bet is to try it early and find out what you need to work on for the next year. worked for me  and i was at a much higher PT level the following year. if you live in Ontario you still have to go through a pre-para for several days, dont know much on it as i  am from BC. all other provinces i believe you just have to pass the PARA pt test at your home unit. 

if you are lucky enough to get accepted for the course you spend 2 weeks in connaught doing a pre course with the 50 selected cadets then you move to CFB Trenton CFLAWC for the actual course which consists of 2 weeks of ground training then J stage which is around 1 week and all you do is jump.

if you have any more questions just reply

SCOTTYBOY


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## gwp (4 Jan 2009)

TVIRUS said:
			
		

> Hi There,
> I am 16 and have been seriously thinking about enrolling for the RCAC "Para" Course. i know that there is a full list of requirements inorder to be accepted and pass the course and get your jump wings. so if any body has any info on the requirments for it (mainly the physical Fitness requirements) please send me the link or reply.


Star - have successfully completed National Star Certification; Courses
have successfully completed a Cadet Leader Instructor course; 
Fitness – have achieved the standard of fitness IAW CATO 42-05; 
http://www.cadets.net/support/cato-oaic/intro_e.asp?cato=42-05
Medical: 
(1) certified by a CF medical officer using form CF 2027 as being physically and mentally capable of taking airborne training, and free from any contagious disease immediately prior to the course; 
(2) the aforementioned medical standards shall be certified by a CFMO who is aware of the high physical and mental requirements of this course. The candidate shall possess a minimum medical category of 333225. A medical officer must establish that the candidate has no abnormalities that, though insufficient to justify a change of medical category, might be aggravated by parachutist training; 
(3) Applicants Blood Group must be clearly identified; and 
(4) previous injuries; Experience has shown that cadets who have had previous knee or ankle medical problems have not been able to complete the course. 
Special: 
(1) Must be 16 by 1 July of year of training and shall not have reached the age of 19 during the course;
(2) Volunteer for parachutist training; 
(3) be well motivated, self-confident, and have the perseverance to undertake parachutist training; and 
(4) be free from compassionate problems that might contribute to non-completion 
Must be recommended by their CO, nominated by their RCSU and approved by the Directorate of Cadets.


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## g_star15 (31 Jan 2009)

i am doing para this year and i got allot of questions and i was wondering if anyone can help me out, i wanted to know what the para cadets do on a daily basis like i know that they wake up and do a 2km run but i want to know everything about how physical its going to be so that i can get prepared i think that i am prepared right now but i don't want to fail so someone please help me if you can asap


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## g_star15 (31 Jan 2009)

why did you onnly spend 3 weeks on the course?



			
				mudrecceman said:
			
		

> It's been a few years since I took the course but...
> 
> Get in shape.  Pushups.  Situps.  AND chin ups.  Do chin ups.
> 
> ...


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## Fishbone Jones (31 Jan 2009)

g_star15,

I t may be a lot, but in 25 pages on this subject, you'll likely find the answers to your questions. Try stay away from the keyboard and read what's already here. Reading and research is something we promote here, and expect of our members.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## George Wallace (31 Jan 2009)

g_star15 said:
			
		

> why did you onnly spend 3 weeks on the course?



That is how long the Course is.


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## Nfld Sapper (31 Jan 2009)

g_star15 said:
			
		

> why did you onnly spend 3 weeks on the course?



Well the Basic PARA (CADETS) is only 15 training days same as the Reg/PRes courses.


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## TVIRUS (1 Feb 2009)

Thanks for all of the help you guys. This past week we did our Pt test and I easily cleared everything   (55 push-ups, 60 sit-ups, 241 long jump) however i barley passed my beep test for gold standard anyways so does anybody know how I can improve my running ability? besides simply running because i am starting that as soon as the snow melts.


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## rampage800 (1 Feb 2009)

TVIRUS

You'll probably get alot of different answers back on this one but I'd recommend Interval Trg. Its not pedal to the metal all the time and its not really boring either, if you have access to PSP staff get them to hook you up with a program and you'll start to see results probably within the first couple of weeks.

My 2 cents.


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## g_star15 (1 Feb 2009)

what would be the most that you will run in a day and to pass the pt test what does your score have to be?


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## Nfld Sapper (1 Feb 2009)

Not sure if the standards are the same but here is the CF Pre-Para Standards for the Reg/PRes Forces

Standards

1 Chin-ups  7 consecutive

2 Bent Knee Sit ups 31 consecutive

3 1 mile /1600 m run  7:30 minutes or less
 or
600 metre Indoor shuttle run  2:30 minutes or less


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## frazzledazzle (9 Feb 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Not sure if the standards are the same but here is the CF Pre-Para Standards for the Reg/PRes Forces
> 
> Standards
> 
> ...



I did the jump course this summer with cadets. Everything was the same for the PT test except that we didn't have to do the shuttle run.

As for the "How much will you have to run in a day" for the actual para, most of the runs are in the morning, if they're in a good mood (A.K.A. you didn't mess up) then it will probably be about 5 kms, if you did mess up, then it could be really long. As for the Pre-Para run at Connaught (cadets only), if you mess up, you could be looking at multiple runs during the day, the longest we had was 10 km. In one day, our CSM had us run two 4 kms runs and an 8 km one as well (that was a bad day). You will ALWAYS do runs in the morning during para generally no shorter then 4 km.


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## HItorMiss (9 Feb 2009)

There is no shuttle run in the para pt test any longer.


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## g_star15 (9 Feb 2009)

what would be the most that you would do for the morning run?




			
				frazzledazzle said:
			
		

> I did the jump course this summer with cadets. Everything was the same for the PT test except that we didn't have to do the shuttle run.
> 
> As for the "How much will you have to run in a day" for the actual para, most of the runs are in the morning, if they're in a good mood (A.K.A. you didn't mess up) then it will probably be about 5 kms, if you did mess up, then it could be really long. As for the Pre-Para run at Connaught (cadets only), if you mess up, you could be looking at multiple runs during the day, the longest we had was 10 km. In one day, our CSM had us run two 4 kms runs and an 8 km one as well (that was a bad day). You will ALWAYS do runs in the morning during para generally no shorter then 4 km.


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## g_star15 (9 Feb 2009)

what would be the most that you would run at one time or did u mean that u guys just ran 10 k


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## frazzledazzle (10 Feb 2009)

Yes, shuttle run is gone. Not sure when they took it out though.

the longest single run you will probably do is 10km, we never did more then this I believe.

the longest we did for the morning run was 8km, but you'll ALWAYS be running. They'll give you timings that will be insanely tight, so you'll be forced to run to everything.

As for total running distance, it changes daily, some days will me easier, and some will be deadly. On one day, we did our morning run (5km), then we did the iron man after breakfast (about 8km long as well as swimming, and some weight running), and then we had to do another 5km run because someone had lost something on the iron man. This was all before lunch.

During my time on para, I found that there were no "easy" days, only bad days, and really bad days. But the experience is deffinatly worth it.


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## g_star15 (10 Feb 2009)

when you said that you ran the 10km in the morning did you mean that you guys ran it non stop?


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## aesop081 (10 Feb 2009)

g_star15 said:
			
		

> did you mean that you guys ran it non stop?



More than likely. Why ?


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## frazzledazzle (13 Feb 2009)

g_star15 said:
			
		

> when you said that you ran the 10km in the morning did you mean that you guys ran it non stop?



Yes, non stop.


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## Smirnoff2812 (17 Feb 2009)

any females out there that have successfully completed para?
do you have any helpful tips regarding training for pre-para?


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## ex_coelis (27 Feb 2009)

Smirnoff2812 said:
			
		

> any females out there that have successfully completed para?
> do you have any helpful tips regarding training for pre-para?



I would like to make a note that I did not read the whole thread in its entirety as it is 26 pages long. With that in mind I will attempt to answer your questions;

There are females who have completed para. One that comes to mind is a CIC Captain with the Queen's York Rangers Army Cadets in Toronto.

I do have a helpful tip regarding training for pre-para and, if you're selected, para itself; don't give up


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## frazzledazzle (1 Mar 2009)

There was a female in 2008 and 2007.


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## Journeyman (1 Mar 2009)

I know of _several_ females who have completed Basic Para -- infantry, parachute riggers, even a Navy Commander (Logistics).

Afraid I can't think of any 'female-specific' training tips though; 'be fit,' 'don't quit,' 'don't miss the earth when jumping,' apply equally to all students.


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## Hill_187 (5 Mar 2009)

When I did my course in 1991 we had 5 females start in pre-para (which was held at Petawawa).  Three made it to the actual jump course in Edmonton, 1 failed the PT test on the first morning and was RTU'd (along with 2 or 3 others, including a reg. force officer from 2nd Field Ambulance).  The remaining two passed the course, one of whom was a CIC Lt. and the other a cadet.

As a side note, my father's last posting, before retiring, was as Director, Army Cadets, in 1980.  He had been a PI in Rivers, MB in the late '40's, before being CFR'd in 1950 during the Korean War.  During his posting, approval had just been obtained to allow female cadets on the jump course.  During one of the meetings, the subject of standards was brought up, and my father was asked how standards would be changed to accomodate the female cadets.  His answer was, nothing would be changed - and they weren't.  His thinking being that if they wanted to earn parachute wings then they would earn them the same as everyone else.  Further to that he also believed that any female who wanted to earn the wings would be able to meet the standard required.  It seems he was right - historically, (based purely on anecdotal evidence only) the failure rates for female cadets are quite similar to those of male cadets.


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## TheBlackCat (17 Apr 2010)

i just did my course last summer and we had 2 girls on course that both got through, they were better than some of the guys!


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## frazzledazzle (8 May 2010)

The captain that was referred to earlier was Capt Carreau. She's about 5 foot nothing and ran us into the ground on our pre-para. Anyone know if any females got loaded on this year? I believe the course list should be out by now.


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## catalyst (8 May 2010)

There is one I know of.


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## Excolis (30 May 2010)

there are two loaded on for this years course.


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## SeanNewman (30 May 2010)

All,

Why does it matter how many females are loaded on Basic Para?  

Would you approve of a post asking how many black people or gays were course loaded?

I'm not offended or anything like that, but it seems a bit sexist because it has an undertone of "wow I'm really surprised that a female can do this".

We're equal on the pay scales and females have destroyed my time on the Ironman.


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## R. Jorgensen (30 May 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> All,
> 
> Why does it matter how many females are loaded on Basic Para?
> 
> ...


I aged out of the Cadet programme in July of last year and in my 5 years as an Army Cadet, I only knew of two female cadets who were loaded on the course; the Quebecois female was cut, and the other Cadet that I personally knew came back Jump qualified. In all honesty, it's a rarity to see female cadets on the Jump course.


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## andre211 (11 Aug 2010)

I've been debating whether I should go with either the Air Cadets or Army Cadets here in Toronto. Both are great opportunities for me. Sorry if it was a stupid question, thanks.


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## Michael OLeary (11 Aug 2010)

Everything you want to know and more about Cadets and Parachute qualifications:

Basic Parachutist Course for Army Cadets & CIC: Question & Answer


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## sapperboysen (11 Aug 2010)

No, only army cadets have the opportunity to take para as cadets. Air cadets can receive glider pilot and power pilot wings.


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## Rheostatic (11 Aug 2010)

As I recall, aside from all the prerequisites being related to the Army Cadet programme, the insurance carried by the Air Cadet League does not cover parachuting.


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## SeanNewman (14 Aug 2010)

The vast majority of the cadets I ever encountered when I was in Para Coy were cadets who had taken the course up to the Mock Tower part, and their wings were different.  That part seemed to be relatively common, but the actual full course in Trenton including the real exits from the Herc would be great as a cadet if you could pull it off because it was so much rarer.


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## Franko (14 Aug 2010)

Petamocto said:
			
		

> The vast majority of the cadets I ever encountered when I was in Para Coy were cadets who had taken the course up to the Mock Tower part, and their wings were different.  That part seemed to be relatively common, but the actual full course in Trenton including the real exits from the Herc would be great as a cadet if you could pull it off because it was so much rarer.



Army Cadets who complete the training jump from Hercs get their wings. If they go into the PRes or Regs, the qualification carries over and they have to do a re-qualifying (not 100% sure of the term) jump(s) to keep them.

There is an annual course run in Trenton by the Jump School shadowed by CIC Officers.

There are a few I know that kept them and are currently serving.

I can get in touch with a good friend of mine to get further details as he has been there for the better part of 7 years.

Regards


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## FutureInfantryOficer (22 Mar 2011)

Ever since my General Training course of the summer of 2010, Ive seen the Army Cadets doing the course and seen how hardcore they were. Ever since then I wanted to be able to do this course and proudly wear the wings on my air cadet uniform.  :cdnsalute:. I asked my CO if I am able to join the course in my later years and he said there is a small chance of me getting in.

     My Questions are: What are the chances of me getting into this Course? 
                                   What camp courses do I need to take, so that I meet the requirements equivalent to the army cadets?
                                   How would I physically train for this course?
                                   If you have done this course, What was it like to jump out of the plane?

    That's All Thank you.


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## midget-boyd91 (22 Mar 2011)

The para course is solely an army cadet course. Much like the powered and glider flying courses in air cadets is solely for cadets of that element.


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## MikeL (22 Mar 2011)

FutureInfantryOficer said:
			
		

> Ive seen the Para Corps doing the course and seen how hardcore they were.



 :

There is no Para Corps or Airborne Cadet units.. same units may wear the Maroon beret but they are not an Airborne unit and should not be considered Paratroopers by any means.  Also what are you comparing this cadet unit to in order to say they are hardcore?

As for wanting to know basic info about the course, PT, etc search the forums as there is a few threads on the topic.


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## formercadet1029 (24 Mar 2011)

Just remuster into army cadets and perhaps you can qualify to to attend this course, there is no way any air or sea cadet would be allowed on this course.


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## 62RHLI (26 Apr 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> "...the qualification carries over and they have to do a re-qualifying (not 100% sure of the term) jump(s) to keep them."



You have to do a short "Refresher" if you haven't jumped within 72 days of your last jump. Rules we were told as of July/August 2009 at CFLAWC, CFB Trenton.


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## Journeyman (26 Apr 2011)

62RHLI said:
			
		

> You have to do a short "Refresher" if you haven't jumped within 72 days of your last jump. Rules we were told as of July/August 2009 at CFLAWC, CFB Trenton.


Refresher training is required only to jump again, after a break of 72 days. The discussion in progress (almost a year ago) was whether any sort of re-certification was required to merely continue wearing the wings; there isn't -- you earned 'em, you keep 'em.


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## FutureInfantryOficer (26 Apr 2011)

Should air cadets be allowed to participate in the Basic Parachutist Course? Why or why not?


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## George Wallace (26 Apr 2011)

FutureInfantryOfficer

This is your only WARNING:

Read more, mature enough to understand the role and mandate of the Canadian Forces, and POST less.  You have shown yourself to be too immature at this time to be posting trivial topics on this site.  You also seem to be suffering from memory loss, as you are asking the same questions over and over again, as seen with your most recent post (New Topic) above.


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## Michael OLeary (26 Apr 2011)

FutureInfantryOfficer said:
			
		

> Should air cadets be allowed to participate in the Basic Parachutist Course? Why or why not?



How many glider pilot positions are the Air Cadets willing to offer up in trade? The point is that each is a limited resource, opening it the para course to Air Cadets doesn't automatically mean more courses or positions.


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## Rheostatic (26 Apr 2011)

FutureInfantryOfficer said:
			
		

> Should air cadets be allowed to participate in the Basic Parachutist Course? Why or why not?


The answer I got, many years ago (correct or not), was that Air Cadet training is insured by the Air Cadet League, and that insurance does not cover any kind of parachuting.


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## 62RHLI (28 Apr 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Refresher training is required only to jump again, after a break of 72 days. The discussion in progress (almost a year ago) was whether any sort of re-certification was required to merely continue wearing the wings; there isn't -- you earned 'em, you keep 'em.



My apologies!  :facepalm:


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## formercadet1029 (28 Apr 2011)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> How many glider pilot positions are the Air Cadets willing to offer up in trade? The point is that each is a limited resource, opening it the para course to Air Cadets doesn't automatically mean more courses or positions.


This is a pretty valid point here. 

Also something for your consideration is that if you remain an air cadet, then remuster later as a senior cadet into an army cadet corps hoping to get on the the basic para course, you'll most likely find a serious level of angst directed towards you from your army cadet piers within whatever corps you decide to join. The basic para course is about as prestigious as it can get within the army cadet program, it has very limited space available for candidates that qualify. Truthfully speaking, the premise of you trying to pull it off in that fashion is unlikely and would probably be met with some resistance from the staff at that corps. Imagine this, a senior army cadet in your town shows up at your squadron in sept declaring he/she there to get glider wings over some other cadets that have been in your corps for 3 or 4 years. My advice would be to join an army cadet corps asap after you complete your summer training this year with air cadets.


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## mikkilovesyou (14 Aug 2011)

I'm wondering if anyone knows the requirements for para. And can you get denied for eye sight even if you wear glasses ??? thanks


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## Journeyman (14 Aug 2011)

About 33 circular feet of rip-stop nylon, a servicable aircraft, and gravity.....ya gotta have gravity.



You didn't even pretend to search, did you?


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## medicineman (14 Aug 2011)

And yes, you can get denied for eyesight - minimum visual category for basic para is V3.

MM


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## Lakatos (24 Aug 2011)

I heard from my officers at camp they may be getting rid of the para course for Cadets, she told me this after I asked for the basic requirements and then she told me she was really busy.


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## lethalLemon (24 Aug 2011)

Lakatos said:
			
		

> I heard from my officers at camp they may be getting rid of the para course for Cadets, she told me this after I asked for the basic requirements and then she told me she was really busy.



It's just a rumour that they're going to stop offering it to Cadets. Until it actually stops being offered, don't listen to things people say without official documentation.


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## medicineman (24 Aug 2011)

MGalantine said:
			
		

> Really? I know a guy who did Basic Parachutist in 2008, then a couple of months later on the medical tested V4... did the minimum change recently?



Last I looked on the 154 it was V3 - minimum for combat arms.  Maybe his last medical said V3 before he went to Trenton.

MM


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## Military Chiklet (10 Sep 2011)

I wondered about it too...I've also heard they have started it up for Air cadets this past summer... 

In which, I need the training for this.
In anytime at all, I would absolutely love to trade up my glider and power positions..I have no desire to be airborne none so ever. But I can see why they don't like other elements to mix. The only one I have seen cross elements is Band...Grr, i don't want to do band for my remaining Cadet years....


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## Pryce (10 Oct 2011)

PARACHUTIST Each year this course is flooded with applications. Cadets and parents must understand 
that selection is not only based on performance in the area of fitness. Applying cadets must attend 18 – 20 
Feb in Trenton where they will undergo their first fitness testing to complete the application. The application is 
then sent to Region where the complete career of the cadet is taken into factor and they are all ranked 
accordingly with Cadets from all of Ontario. From this list, the top 36 are requested to partake in the pre-para 
course during March break again in Trenton, where they will undergo a rigorous fitness program and conduct 
jumps from the mock tower to confirm no fear of heights. These 36 are then again re-ranked from this 
performance and will be course loaded on the Para Course accordingly at a National level. Each year 
Ontario’s number of positions varies. It has ranged from 8 up to 18. It is important that cadets always perform 
to the best of their ability as this course is highly sot after. Please be aware that Cadets attending the PrePara, must meet the following pre-requisites: 
  
• have successfully completed National Star Certification; 
• have successfully completed a Cadet Leader Instructor course; 
• have achieved the minimal standard of fitness: 
• 1.6 KM run in a maximum of 7 mins and 30 seconds 
• Sit-ups: 31 consecutive 
• Chin up: 7 consecutive 
• be medically fit IAW CATO 16-02; 
• be 16 years of age by 1 July of year of training and not reach the age of 19 during the course; 
• volunteer for parachutist training  
• attended 75% of  corps mandatory trg during the current trg year  
• be well motivated, self-confident, and have the perseverance to undertake parachutist training;  
• be free from compassionate problems that might contribute to non-completion or failure of the course; 
and 2011 Summer Camp detailed Course Information 
9
• not be a member of the Canadian Forces (NEW). 
As well cadets attending the Pre-Para must: 
• bring a letter from their family doctor noting any previous medical, psychiatric and/or surgical history 
including any current medications to facilitate the completion of the medical assessment (VERY 
IMPORTANT); and  
• bring a letter from their physician or local laboratory confirming their blood type (VERY IMPROTANT).
:walt:

Mods can you delete my last post on this topic Thanks.


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## Pryce (10 Mar 2012)

If they do let Air Cadets take the course, what do Army Cadets get that is distinctively theirs? The Air Cadets have the Glider program, Sea Cadets i believe can get their Radio certification. (had difficulty finding their summer training courses). And if Air Cadets get Basic Para what do Army Cadets have as their most prestigious course. :walt:


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## arrowsmith95 (16 Mar 2012)

can anyone tell me the week layout ( what you do during the week . how much pt  )  im doing pre para really soon and i hope i make top 5 for selection .


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## Franko (17 Mar 2012)

arrowsmith95 said:
			
		

> can anyone tell me the week layout ( what you do during the week . how much pt  )  im doing pre para really soon and i hope i make top 5 for selection .



Unless things have changed, you have to complete a senior leadership course prior to getting the opportunity to get an application. Even then, there are only so many slots Canada wide to get on it...as little as 2 per province. If you have NSCE completed then you're put in the top contenders for selection.

Talk to your CoC and they will be able to get you the latest requirements for the screening and PT test. I'll get in touch with one of the JM's I know that is there and see what he can get and post it up.

Regards


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## sam.shepherd2379 (30 Apr 2012)

arrowsmith95 said:
			
		

> can anyone tell me the week layout ( what you do during the week . how much pt  )  im doing pre para really soon and i hope i make top 5 for selection .



This may be a bit late, but hopefully it can still help.
The first two weeks of the summer course is basically like the first day of 'pre-para' (which we know by another name) spread out. It will not be fun. You don't have time to recover your body, and trust me when I say go to bed early and don't let the others keep you up. I don't know what province you're from so I don't know which CSM you had or which other cadets you had but the CSM for the summer will be the same as the Ontario pre-para (I will not post any names on this public site without concent). I can only imagine what your pre-para was like but knowing my fellow jumpers from last year I have a good idea, and you can expect as much for course. Just prepare yourself now for then, and good luck making it.


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## Phoebe (8 May 2012)

I was an Air Cadet for about six years. One of my friends who attended SLC received the award for top cadet and was permitted to attend the para course since he won the award. The funniest thing ever was seeing Army Cadet Para wings on an Air Cadet uniform. The Squadron staff instructed him to remove them as it was not apart of the Air Cadet dress standards. 

-Phobos


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## brihard (8 May 2012)

There is no such thing as 'army cadet para wings'. They are a Canadian Forces qualification badge; the only one, to my knowledge, that a cadet can ever wear.


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## Franko (8 May 2012)

Phobos said:
			
		

> I was an Air Cadet for about six years. One of my friends who attended SLC received the award for top cadet and was permitted to attend the para course since he won the award. The funniest thing ever was seeing Army Cadet Para wings on an Air Cadet uniform. The Squadron staff instructed him to remove them as it was not apart of the Air Cadet dress standards.
> 
> -Phobos



Really? National Course and a recognised CF Army course qualification.

Like to see the dress regs on that.


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## my72jeep (8 May 2012)

Phobos said:
			
		

> I was an Air Cadet for about six years. One of my friends who attended SLC received the award for top cadet and was permitted to attend the para course since he won the award. The funniest thing ever was seeing Army Cadet Para wings on an Air Cadet uniform. The Squadron staff instructed him to remove them as it was not apart of the Air Cadet dress standards.
> 
> -Phobos


27 years CF 20 with Cadets and I've never heard of a Air Cadet atteding the para course as an Air Cadet. The Air Cadets did have a sporting Parachute badge that was worn on the sleeve like a camp badge.
Now if he was awarded the CF Para wings he has every right to wear them as they part of all cadet dress standards.


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## Cui (8 May 2012)

Phobos said:
			
		

> I was an Air Cadet for about six years. One of my friends who attended SLC received the award for top cadet and was permitted to attend the para course since he won the award. The funniest thing ever was seeing Army Cadet Para wings on an Air Cadet uniform. The Squadron staff instructed him to remove them as it was not apart of the Air Cadet dress standards.
> 
> -Phobos



The reason why no air cadets are permitted to partake in the Basic Parachutist Course is because of an insurance issue. The Air Cadet League of Canada buys insurance for all cadets when they partake in cadet activities, and in the particular policy, cadets are not covered to partake in activities such as skydiving, thus no air cadets are permitted to partake in the course.

At least that's what I have been told, and it makes sense. I have been searching around for official references, but can't find any. 

In no part of the CATOs does it prohibit cadets from wearing official qualifications that they have earned, as well, I would like to see the official documentation that allows the recipient of some award from SLC to partake in the course. 

I don't know if it's just me, but that story doesn't really add up.


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## Phoebe (9 May 2012)

It would be very nice if they were to extend the Survival Instructor's Course and allow the cadets attending to receive their para qualification along with the required training. Knowing how to parachute out of a plane sounds appropriate to be along with Survival training. The worst case scenario is that a pilot is forced to bail out of their air craft during an emergency, god forbid. 

Obviously, the issue with insurance would have to be cleared first. I don't see how getting the insurance would be such a big problem since there are currently cadets training to receive both their glider and private power pilot licenses.

I guess if these changes were made back when I was a cadet, it wouldn't have really mattered any ways. All the courses I enjoyed were in Aviation Technologies. I was never one of those fancy air cadets with all their survival and leader-like training.   . 

-Phobos


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## Pryce (5 Jun 2012)

Phobos said:
			
		

> It would be very nice if they were to extend the Survival Instructor's Course and allow the cadets attending to receive their para qualification along with the required training. Knowing how to parachute out of a plane sounds appropriate to be along with Survival training. The worst case scenario is that a pilot is forced to bail out of their air craft during an emergency, god forbid.



Problem is. What do Army Cadets have that is exclusive to them. And i believe there is a difference between getting your jump wings in order to partake in Airborne operations and bailing from a plane in an emergency. If anything, air cadets could possible take part in training for bailing from a plane, because that is a situation that they could face, but in no way should receive a separate qualification for that training because it is safety training for an activity that they already partake in. Which is flying. It's not like we have air cadets flying C-130's where a free-fall jump would be necessary for escape. So in short any jumps made would be bundled with their pilot wings not their  CF Para wings because it is just OUT OF THEIR ELEMENT....


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## aesop081 (5 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> It's not like we have air cadets flying C-130's where a free-fall jump would be necessary for escape.



Wew don't have too many Army cadets jumping around taking part in Airborne operations either.


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## Pryce (5 Jun 2012)

Point is. It's out of their element. Also it's a Canadian Forces qualification not a cadet qualification, so in a sense it is training for airborne operations, which could just basically mean, jumping from a C-130 from 800m, with a 150 ruk, rifle, and then run to a designated point a mile  or two from the DZ. So technically in a sense, Cadets do take part in Airborne operations. :walt:


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## aesop081 (5 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> So technically in a sense, Cadets do take part in Airborne operations.



Yeah, ok. keep telling yourself that.

 :


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## Journeyman (5 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> So technically in a sense, Cadets do take part in Airborne operations. :walt:


Interesting choice of smiley -- "walt"


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## Infanteer (5 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> So technically in a sense, Cadets do take part in Airborne operations. :walt:



 :rofl:


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## dogger1936 (5 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> Point is. It's out of their element. Also it's a Canadian Forces qualification not a cadet qualification, so in a sense it is training for airborne operations, which could just basically mean, jumping from a C-130 from 800m, with a 150 ruk, rifle, and then run to a designated point a mile  or two from the DZ. So technically in a sense, Cadets do take part in Airborne operations. :walt:



We'll call up the sea cadets to softened up the hillsides with BB guns from their sailboats.

God speed.


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## Pryce (6 Jun 2012)

Well the word Airborne means "Something carried by the Air" and a operation could be me just picking something up down the road. A better word to use would Parachuting. And by "Airborne Operation" I was not referring to a military wartime OP. If you know where i'm getting at. I'm just having difficulty finding the words, to get my actual thought across.


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## dogger1936 (6 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> Well the word Airborne means "Something carried by the Air" and a operation could be me just picking something up down the road. A better word to use would Parachuting. And by "Airborne Operation" I was not referring to a military wartime OP. If you know where i'm getting at. I'm just having difficulty finding the words, to get my actual thought across.



So my flamboyant cousin who is a flight steward(ess) with porter is conducting airborne operations daily. I'll buy him/her a beer next time he's home.

Although some of your CIC officers no doubt resemble Field-Marshal Goering; don't confuse a youth organisation (designed to produce better citizens) for a military youth organisation.


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## Towards_the_gap (6 Jun 2012)

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> don't confuse a youth CLUB (designed to produce better citizens) for an OPERATIONAL MILITARY UNIT.




FTFY


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Jun 2012)

How about the word you're looking for is "Air Portable".  Save yourself the grief and go with that............


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## George Wallace (6 Jun 2012)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> How about the word you're looking for is "Air Portable".  Save yourself the grief and go with that............



 "Air Portable".  
 "Air Transportable".  
 "Air Dropable".


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## Pryce (6 Jun 2012)

I have been convinced. Just wish I didn't go in balls deep... Mods any chance of you guys helping me out and deleting some unruly comments of mine?  :crybaby:


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## Pryce (6 Jun 2012)

armoured soon said:
			
		

> I am a cic officer, and i hope to get on the Basic Para course this year with the cadets.  i have been training for some time now, and i was just wondering what other exercises i can do to help me do better while i am on course?  i am sure htere are plenty of airborne out there.  please help me out if you could.
> 
> P.S. and just to let you know my name should be spelled Ex Coelis.  but it was already taken...



It's kinda late. But chin ups, push ups do lot's and lot's and lot's, Run, and lower body training. You don't want to break a leg on landing. If anyone else wants advice, my cousin was on course with the US Army, but like i said broke his leg. But i could possible get advice on training for yea.


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## krustyrl (6 Jun 2012)

This is great.!      op:


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## Snakedoc (6 Jun 2012)

Wow, did you guys just make a cadet cry on an online forum? hahaha


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## brihard (6 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> I have been convinced. Just wish I didn't go in balls deep... Mods any chance of you guys helping me out and deleting some unruly comments of mine?  :crybaby:



Take it as a learning experience. I think most of us can think back to something we've said - or read our own posts from years ago - and cringe.

It's not a big deal, and if you get into the military you'l realize that opening your mouth wide enough to fit your own foot - and then having someone else kick your other leg out from under you - is pretty much a part of maturing into the organization. Don't try to hide goofs; own them, learn, and move on.


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## Pryce (6 Jun 2012)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> Wow, did you guys just make a cadet cry on an online forum? hahaha



Haha no. Just made me look back, and realize that I was talking out of my ass. :facepalm:


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## Pryce (6 Jun 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Take it as a learning experience. I think most of us can think back to something we've said - or read our own posts from years ago - and cringe.
> 
> It's not a big deal, and if you get into the military you'l realize that opening your mouth wide enough to fit your own foot - and then having someone else kick your other leg out from under you - is pretty much a part of maturing into the organization. Don't try to hide goofs; own them, learn, and move on.



Thanks.   Last smiley. I'm starting to abuse these buggers.


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## Danjanou (7 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> I have been convinced. Just wish I didn't go in balls deep... Mods any chance of you guys helping me out and deleting some unruly comments of mine?  :crybaby:



Nope. I think we'll leave this up as a warning to read more post less. Stickied and locked with the usual caveats.


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## Franko (7 Jun 2012)

C/MCpl Pryce said:
			
		

> *It's kinda late.* But chin ups, push ups do lot's and lot's and lot's, Run, and lower body training. You don't want to break a leg on landing. If anyone else wants advice, my cousin was on course with the US Army, but like i said broke his leg. But i could possible get advice on training for yea.



Let's see, post is 9 years old and he hasn't been on the site since 2010.

Read more, post less.

*The Army.ca Staff*


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## Pryce (7 Jun 2012)

Nerf herder said:
			
		

> Let's see, post is 9 years old and he hasn't been on the site since 2010.
> 
> Read more, post less.
> 
> *The Army.ca Staff*



For anyone getting around to actually read this post. I just thought it would be appropriate to post this up since I am in a position to get help.  And i'm also taking into account that the last posts were appox- a year old. I'll stop posting.


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## Clarke (10 Apr 2014)

This is my first post on this site. I registered for just so I could get some insight on the BPC (Basic Parachutist Course) and Pre-Para (I live in BC). I've done Fullbore Phase 1, Phase 2, and RCAC National Rifle Team. I want to commit my next 2 years (If I have to) to just training for para. I've looked at past threads on this, and none have had the depth and info I needed. Also, most of them were dated. Some things I would like to know:

*Pre Para:*
- How to apply?
- Pre-requisites?
- Fitness requirements?
- What to expect?
- How to prepare?

Pre-Para in BC is done in Vernon, in March. Around that time it is awfully *chilly and cool. Rarely ever hot.* Unlike CFB Trenton, which is the opposite during the summer, when BPC is held.

*BPC:*
- Fitness standards?
- What to expect?
- How to prepare?
- How to survive?
etc, etc.

If there's any other crucial information that I should know, or any info in general that will help me, it would be greatly, greatly appreciated!
*Also, if someone could be a lad and kind of, make a work out kind of plan for this, that would be amazing! *

Thanks for taking the time to read/contribute to this thread!

Clarke.


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## shootemup604 (10 Apr 2014)

This is probably a little late for this summer, as I believe pre-para has already run this spring.  So for next year, start running and running.  And doing push ups and chinups.  Provided you meet the other requirements (age, star level, etc), physical fitness is a major driver to getting you through pre-para, which may get you on the course.


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## Sgt_McWatt (10 Apr 2014)

TerminalCorporal said:
			
		

> Pre-Para in BC is done in Vernon, in March. Around that time it is awfully *chilly and cool. Rarely ever hot.* Unlike CFB Trenton, which is the opposite.



You should probably know that Trenton isn't hot in March.


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## Clarke (10 Apr 2014)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> You should probably know that Trenton isn't hot in March.



I meant to say that Pre-Para is held in cold March, and you train in the cold weather. But if you make para in Trenton, it's held during the summer and the conditions are almost the opposite, and it's extremely hot and humid. I edited the post to make clearer.


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## ztb97 (7 Aug 2014)

I just recently finished the course this summer (as in last week) and Ive noticed a lot of confused people on this website about the course. Firstly this course is hard. Be prepared to hurt a little bit and learn to overcome fear. This course is a half cadet half army course. For a bit you’ll be doing Cadet things, then you’ll move over to the army things (you get two course reports, one from Cadets and one from the army). We do ours right alongside the reserves, sharing a barracks with them as well. You will be treated like soldiers, it’s different but it feels great. Trust me when I say this, everything you do has a reason. 
	So this year, they made all regions do a pre-para, and if you don’t know what pre-para is, well…..it’s the hardest thing you will ever do (especially if you go to the one in Trenton). I still believe I found the pre course in March harder than the course in the summer. I had a really hard time with it, but going gives you so much knowledge on what you need to work on (which is push ups).  We got in at 7 or 8 pm and the CSM made is do 100 push ups as soon as we got off the bus, and then we did PT for 2 hours. It sucked hard cause of the snow and water, so it made it more dangerous/hard. Ours was one week, first day was the PT testing day. Make sure you do amazing on this test, as it is the biggest ground breaker for getting on the course. After that we went to Bakers Island………never again did I want to do. Trust me you’ll learn when you get there, make sure you can do push ups. Oh! Free tip! DO NOT SAY AIRBORNE. The CSM will eat you alive if he does (and I think I know the CSM going for it next year, he will eat you). Second day was the mock tower jumps (See pictures for an idea of the mocktower) and all you have to do is jump, nothing to hard, it just gets your fear of heights tingling. Make sure you get over that fear before you go to it, because the course will be a lot easier if you do. Third day is the medical testing, which is a very chill day, then you go home. Few tips, bring some A535 or Tiger balm, because your legs will be so sore, so learn to stretch them as well. Listen to everything that is said, because if you get course senior, you need to listen, and make sure you do. 
For training for the PT test, here are a few tips. The standards have not changed, it’s still 7 chin ups, 31 sit ups (something like that) and a mile in 7:30. It’s honestly not that hard, but you need to at least double the results. Get a chin-up bar, it will be your best friend. Every time you enter the room you have the bar in, do at least 7 chin-ups. After a month you’ll be surprised how far you’ll get. Do lots of sit-ups and a position called fifth point (back on the floor, feet and knees together, slight bend in the knees, feet 6 inches off the ground, chin to chest and hands straight behind your head). Please, please practice this, as I didn’t and I paid for it big time.  For push ups, just do lots. Every time you eat, (minimum) set of 25. Wake up? 25. Fart? 25. Get tired? 25 it is. Get used to doing lots of different kinds, so doing the standard one is easier. Running. Run a lot but don’t hurt yourself. Before I left for Pre-para I was running 4km, but make sure you can do more. Before I left for Para I was doing 8km, which is good, but always strive for more. Don’t hurt yourself training as you’ll just slow down your process, and make sure you stretch. As for your normal workouts, a lot of people ask if weights or no weights. Do what you want, as long as you do the push ups and other things in those workouts. If you have the P90x workouts they are FANTASTIC for this kind of training (especially ab ripper x), but again so solid workouts, with lots and lots of cardio.   
          So you made it into Para, and you’re wondering what to expect. The actual course is divided into two sections; the pre course (which usually runs for two weeks but this year it was only one) and the course at CAAWC (Canadians Army Advanced Warfare Center, yes the abbreviated version sounds like what you think it is). The pre course is made to whip you into shape and to make you and your buddies work as a team for the actual course. The pre course is as hard as you and your buddies make it. You mess up, you will be doing push ups or doing fifth. You will be doing PT and “team building activites” all day, every day. The days are so slow and long you most likely be really tired. But they are fun though! This year we got lucky and did A LOT of fun things (rappelling out of the mock helicopter, got to see the simulated CC-130 J Herc, did mock tower jumps, etc). Sadly but surely, you will be doing a scheduled PT session at 05:30 every morning (besides weekends, thank god) and they will literally run you to the ground. I mean it was crazy on how much running we did. Second or third day, we ran for a straight hour and a half, I’m pretty sure we ran at least 14km at one time. Learn to like the suck though. Cause there will be lots, especially when you go to Connaught. We only went for an evening, but holy smokes. It. Sucked. Just straight up PT for hours, and you have ex para cadets “motivating you”. That basically sums up the first week, and then you move on to the CAAWC. Gotta love the CAAWC (we made so many jokes about that name…). Free tip again, if you want to get Sgt Airborne, probally the best and funniest instructor, make sure you fall into the first rank when they form you up in the flight room, as that is “his rank”. So every day you will do classes, every day and they will beat all the drills in your head. I’m not a parachute instructor so I won’t tell you how to do anything, but make sure you fix your goods before getting into those harnesses as anyone who has done flight knows that terrible feeling….You will doing classes of flight, aircraft drill, landings and equipment at least twice a day, every day, don’t worry equipment becomes a lot easier with practice. Honestly for me, I did very little push ups in the last two week, as I always listened…we had a guy make a lot of mistakes on his equipment, let’s just say he racked up 525 push ups…..the less you screw up, the less you’ll do. Trust me when I say that. After a while you’ll finally do the mock tower test, this being the place most people fail. Try your hardest and be aggressive, and you’ll have no problems. That coming Firday is your PO checks, make sure you’ve been practicing in the barracks at night, for everything you can. Half hour every night can mean the difference between a plane ride home to a plane ride to the drop zone. Let me tell you, the course is a challenging course, but all the effort is worth it the first time you’re under canopy. It’s something you can’t explain, you have to experience it yourself. Oh and make sure you keep your chin to your chest, I got minor whip lash cause I didn’t. 
        This course is the best course you’ll take it Cadets. It’ll make very other course look so simple and easy and you’ll come out with a new skill set, $100 worth of airborne t-shirts, and a whole lot of stories. If you think you can do it, try it. The worst that can happen is you go back and do it again. Don’t give up with the training and if you have any questions, please ask.


----------



## Mcpl t (10 Aug 2014)

ztb97 what 6 week course do you think would prepare you the most or look the best on a para application.


----------



## RedcapCrusader (10 Aug 2014)

Son of anarchy said:
			
		

> ztb97 what 6 week course do you think would prepare you the most or look the best on a para application.



Probably Sports and Fitness Instructor course.


----------



## ztb97 (10 Aug 2014)

Son of anarchy said:
			
		

> ztb97 what 6 week course do you think would prepare you the most or look the best on a para application.


Honestly, it doesn't matter. Our top jumper this year was a bandy! Our top Cadet was a Expo guy, our course senoir for three weeks was a ARI guy. So it doesn't matter on the camps, you can do what you want, just have a lot of NSE points, *especially* if you're from Ontario.


----------



## Mcpl t (10 Aug 2014)

Thanks for the quick reply and good advice I will keep that in mind. And I guess I should start due to the fact I do live in Ontario.


----------



## ztb97 (11 Aug 2014)

Son of anarchy said:
			
		

> Thanks for the quick reply and good advice I will keep that in mind. And I guess I should start due to the fact I do live in Ontario.


 No problem! Any other questions no matter how silly they seem just ask!


----------



## Chaz Perry (15 Oct 2014)

I joined this site just to get some information that I haven't yet come across with regard to the Basic Parachutist course. I have all the information I require, except one vital piece. 

What are the CURRENT age, rank, and/or star level requirements to qualify as an army cadet?

How, if I meet the age/rank/star level requirements, would I go about applying for Prepara?


----------



## RedcapCrusader (15 Oct 2014)

Chaz Perry said:
			
		

> I joined this site just to get some information that I haven't yet come across with regard to the Basic Parachutist course. I have all the information I require, except one vital piece.
> 
> What are the CURRENT age, rank, and/or star level requirements to qualify as an army cadet?
> 
> How, if I meet the age/rank/star level requirements, would I go about applying for Prepara?



Age: must be minimum age 16.
Rank: lol serious?
Star level: Silver - that's not necessarily bearing. You will have to complete a Cadet Instructor Course to qualify: example DCI, Expedition Instructor, Sports and Fitness Instructor.

To apply for the Basic Parachutist Course (which will have you loaded on a Pre-para if your province has one) you will put "Basic Parachutist Course" on your summer training application.

Part of the application will require you to complete a fitness test. Minimum qualifying scoring bracket is silver; you will need to be able to score higher to ensure that you remain on course.


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## Chaz Perry (15 Oct 2014)

RedcapCrusader said:
			
		

> Age: must be minimum age 16.
> Rank: lol serious?
> Star level: Silver - that's not necessarily bearing. You will have to complete a Cadet Instructor Course to qualify: example DCI, Expedition Instructor, Sports and Fitness Instructor.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I've heard so many different things from so many different people, (yes I've even heard rank requirements), and just needed some real info.


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## Colin Parkinson (15 Oct 2014)

I ran into a young man at the grocery store wearing a new Airborne t-shirt, asked if he just completed his jump course, he said YES and added sheepishly "as a Cadet" My advice to all of you is to be proud that you did it as a Cadet, it's one hell of an accomplishment and to be proud of it. Good job to all that pass the course.


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## kessy (25 Nov 2014)

as a female I have learned that its much harder to do chin ups then it is for men (I know this because my younger brothers can do them and neither my older sister nor I can do many of them). I was wondering if any men or women that have taken the cadet basic para course have any advice for me to help me become fit for the para course that I will attempt to take this summer. I can do more than enough sit ups, and push ups. I just have a little trouble with chin ups and the running part. please give me some advice and maybe a training plan that will help me get better so that I may be able to complete the one actual dream I have had since I was 7.   -thankyou


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## sidemount (26 Nov 2014)

Its not that its harder for men or women, its training and working the muscle groups that are required to do the task.

In reality you get better at chinups by doing more chinups. If you cant do a chinup, start with jumping up and doing negatives.....it will come.

Look up recon ron's chinup program

FWIW, I was on basic para with a few ladies that put a lot of guys to shame with the number of chinups they can do.


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## Osprey8273 (9 Jan 2015)

I had a quick question regarding my medical stance and how it would effect my chances of getting into para with Cadets. I'm considering (doesn't mean I will, it's just a thought) about applying for the course this or next year.

So, in 2012, I took a hard hit in hockey and the impact of me hitting the ice flared up some nerves in my legs. Although it wasn't medically diagnosed with it, I was treated in physio for sciatica for about 3 months. I haven't had any problems with it since beginning of 2014. As well, in early June 2014, I took another fall in hockey and broke my ankle. I underwent physio for 1 and a half months for that.

I was wondering if those injuries would restrict me from being enrolled in the course (since the impact of landing and all), Because if it's not worth the hassle I won't do it. I'm qualified at Excellence Level fitness and haven't run into any problems since those two major injuries. I've also done my Sports and Fitness Instructor course.


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## ztb97 (13 Jan 2015)

I think it should not at all. You have to get confirmed by your family doctor before you go saying you are medically fit to go to pre-para, and while at pre-para you do a medical as well. As long as it is not a problem as of the moment, you will be fine. One of the guys on course had runners knee in (i think) both knees and they let him do it. Keep up with the training bud, and you'll cruise through the course.


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## Crazy Caveman72 (29 Aug 2016)

I hope to get my parachute wings while I am in cadets. My question is if I join the Air Force and I have my pilot wings can I wear my para wings at the same time or at all?


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## mariomike (29 Aug 2016)

For reference, perhaps,

Wearing parachute wings in Air Force 

will be merged with, 

Basic Parachutist Course for Army Cadets & CIC: Question & Answer  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/4371.0
18 pages.



			
				Crazy Caveman72 said:
			
		

> I hope to get my parachute wings while I am in cadets. My question is if I join the Air Force and I have my pilot wings can I wear my para wings at the same time or at all?





			
				combat_medic said:
			
		

> You can wear cadet jump wings on your CF dress uniform, but it‘s the ONLY thing that transfers over from cadets to the army.



See also,

Cadet wings
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+wings+cadet&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=oKLEV_jkNMyC8Qei9bj4Cw&gws_rd=ssl


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## daftandbarmy (29 Aug 2016)

Here's a question I've always had burning in my tiny mind: 

Do you get parachute wings in the RCAF if you have to eject for any reason (like, wanting to earn a set of parachute wings?)


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## PuckChaser (29 Aug 2016)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Here's a question I've always had burning in my tiny mind:
> 
> Do you get parachute wings in the RCAF if you have to eject for any reason (like, wanting to earn a set of parachute wings?)


Likely only if you do it 5 times, need 5 jumps to get CAF BPara wings. I figure after 3, RCAF CoC would likely not let you break another plane, though.


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## dapaterson (29 Aug 2016)

The Caterpillar Club (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Club) is what you're thinking of; membership is reserved to those who had to jump out of a disabled aircraft.  So, if a group of freefall parachutists were on a plane that developed problems, and they and the pilot had to jump, only the pilot would be granted membership, as the freefallers were planning to jump regardless.

A family friend (now deceased) was a member, and also a member of RAFES (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Forces_Escaping_Society).


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## Crazy Caveman72 (29 Aug 2016)

So does anybody know if I can wear more than one set of "wings" at a time?


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## dapaterson (29 Aug 2016)

If only there were some sort of manual on how members of the CAF dress.


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## PuckChaser (29 Aug 2016)

Crazy Caveman72 said:
			
		

> So does anybody know if I can wear more than one set of "wings" at a time?


Maybe finish both courses before you try to figure out how to dress up your bling? Or is the only reason you're trying for para because it gives you something on your uniform?


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## Blackadder1916 (29 Aug 2016)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> If only there were some sort of manual on how members of the CAF dress.



If only there was *an updated *sort of manual on how members of the CAF dress.


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## MiniMegamanZero (30 Jun 2019)

Hi, 

I'll be graduating from my BMOQ in one month, and I did my basic parachutist course as a cadet. Can I wear my wings on my navy uniform ?


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 Jun 2019)

MiniMegamanZero said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'll be graduating from my BMOQ in one month, and I did my basic parachutist course as a cadet. Can I wear my wings on my navy uniform ?



Yes you can, they can be sewn on the NCD jacket as well.


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## PuckChaser (30 Jun 2019)

Someone will challenge you on it, so make sure you have a copy of your course report entered in on your pers file if its not already there.


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Jun 2019)

MiniMegamanZero said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'll be graduating from my BMOQ in one month, and I did my basic parachutist course as a cadet. Can I wear my wings on my navy uniform ?



Assuming you'll be purchasing a mess kit in the near future, they are also worn on the Navy one, just in a different spot; "A single miniature cloth metallic embroidered badge, sewn on the left sleeve, 0.6 cm above the circle in the upper row of officers’ rank lace".


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## mariomike (30 Jun 2019)

MiniMegamanZero said:
			
		

> I'll be graduating from my BMOQ in one month, and I did my basic parachutist course as a cadet. Can I wear my wings on my navy uniform ?



See also,

Basic Parachutist Course for Army Cadets & CIC: Question & Answer  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/4371.475
20 pages

Asked and answered throughout the thread,

For official reference,

Canadian Forces Dress Instructions
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/pub/ins-265/index-eng.asp
Date Modified: 2018-01-19


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Jun 2019)

mariomike said:
			
		

> For official reference,
> 
> Canadian Forces Dress Instructions
> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/pub/ins-265/index-eng.asp
> Date Modified: 2018-01-19



The other ref that applies to Specialist (and flying) badges is CFAO 55-10 -- THE CREATION AND AWARDING OF CANADIAN FORCES FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES.


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## Bzzliteyr (2 Jul 2019)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Someone will challenge you on it, so make sure you have a copy of your course report entered in on your pers file if its not already there.



This is critical, go on Employee Member Access Application (EMAA) and check your Member's Personnel Record Resume (MPRR) to see if they're there.


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## Eye In The Sky (2 Jul 2019)

I do find this "jump wings will be challenged" odd.  Are there people serving "walting"?  I wear Wings (aircrew);  if I was posted outside my current Sqn, I wouldn't expect someone to say "hey...prove you are entitled to those".


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## Blackadder1916 (2 Jul 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I do find this "jump wings will be challenged" odd.  Are there people serving "walting"?  I wear Wings (aircrew);  if I was posted outside my current Sqn, I wouldn't expect someone to say "hey...prove you are entitled to those".



I don't find it odd at all.  What would you think if a 19 year old Officer Cadet (or Private) was on a BMOQ (or BMQ) with no prior service (Reg or Res) and on the first day after issue of uniform was wearing parachute wings?  Wouldn't it be questioned?  Or on the first day of their TQ3 or Phase 2?  The wearer would have a simple answer and part of that answer would be that his attendance on the jump course as a cadet was documented.  Oh, the example of the 19 year old OCdt was from my BOTC in Chilliwack in the 1980s and not only were his wings questioned at BOTC but again when we started Phase 2 Infantry (where I was also challenged about wearing Aeromedevac wings).


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## Eye In The Sky (2 Jul 2019)

I'd probably not think "they must have went to the tailor and wanted some LCF for their Basic grad parade".  I see people with aircrew wings, jump wings, submariner dolphins in any combo of those.  It's never crossed my mind to say "hey!  you earn those???".   :dunno:  Personally, I've never known anyone who had jump wings on that didn't earn them.  I'd like to believe people have enough integrity to just wear what they've qualified for?

If anyone said to me "prove you earned those or take them off", I'd do neither.  I might laugh a little before I walked away...


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## bick (2 Jul 2019)

http://www.stolenvalour.ca/


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## bick (2 Jul 2019)

http://www.stolenvalour.ca/

Have a look at their Hall of Shame


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## Eye In The Sky (2 Jul 2019)

Crikies...I didn't realize so many former CAF mbrs blinged it up so badly.

I was going to say I don't remember a serving CAF member ever wearing Wings when they weren't a qualified jumper but then I remembered this story.

Point taken.


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## BDTyre (3 Jul 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> The Caterpillar Club (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Club) is what you're thinking of; membership is reserved to those who had to jump out of a disabled aircraft.  So, if a group of freefall parachutists were on a plane that developed problems, and they and the pilot had to jump, only the pilot would be granted membership, as the freefallers were planning to jump regardless.



So I guess DB Cooper wouldn't qualify then, eh?


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## Furniture (4 Jul 2019)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Crikies...I didn't realize so many former CAF mbrs blinged it up so badly.
> 
> I was going to say I don't remember a serving CAF member ever wearing Wings when they weren't a qualified jumper but then I remembered this story.
> 
> Point taken.



The CAF culture is to make a joke about  people with only a CD, or one of the jubilee medals. It's not too surprising that some feel the need to embellish their service when those that served beside them likely mocked their lack of "real" medals.


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## RocketRichard (4 Jul 2019)

Furniture said:
			
		

> The CAF culture is to make a joke about  people with only a CD, or one of the jubilee medals. It's not too surprising that some feel the need to embellish their service when those that served beside them likely mocked their lack of "real" medals.


Yes this joke culture is unsat. Most dudes join and beg for a tour. Misfortune or injuries, family issues, illness and bad luck can impede this. 


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## Blackadder1916 (4 Jul 2019)

Furniture said:
			
		

> The CAF culture is to make a joke about  people with only a CD, or one of the jubilee medals. It's not too surprising that some feel the need to embellish their service when those that served beside them likely mocked their lack of "real" medals.



Since the lack of respect for the CD is mentioned, I'll respond (as I have a couple of times before) by quoting a post I made a long, long time ago.  



			
				Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> One of my lasting memories of someone talking about the decorations and medals that he was wearing occurred in 1994.  I had the good luck of having a COS date out of Lahr that permitted me to arrange my passage home on the Queen Elizabeth 2 sailing out of Southampton on 8 June.  I was able therefore to drive to Normandy and spend 6 June 94 (50th Anniversary of D-Day) visiting some of the memorials and events there; take the ferry across to England; turn my car over to Cunard for loading onto the ship and then relax for several days on the North Atlantic.  The voyage was billed as a “D-Day Memorial” cruise.  Many of the passengers were WW II veterans, mostly American, some Brits, and at least one Canadian.
> 
> One of the events that occurred on the ship was the Captain’s Welcome Party.  Dressed in finest bib and tucker, you go through the receiving line, have your photo taken and then proceed to the most important part of the soiree… getting a drink.  Some of the other passengers were wearing medals, ribbons or devices that showed that they had served.  I was in mess kit as were a few of the other passengers including a Van Doo LCol and a husband & wife who were both pilots in the USAF.   It was particularly easy for the Van Doo and me to be noticed in the scarlet monkey jackets.
> 
> ...


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## RocketRichard (4 Jul 2019)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Since the lack of respect for the CD is mentioned, I'll respond (as I have a couple of times before) by quoting a post I made a long, long time ago.


Great post Blackadder. TY. Have an acquaintance who did 15 years in PPCLI back in the day. Went to West Germany. Did his basic para. Tried to get to Cyprus but missed the tours. Best soldier I ever met and his troops would have followed him anywhere. He did not get a tour but was very keen to. I would not begrudge him his CD as it was well earned and he was ready to deploy whenever or wherever it took. 


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## X Royal (5 Jul 2019)

Blackadder I still remember this post you have re-posted today.
Pro Patria.


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