# "Tattoo and body piercing rule unreasonable: need to show adverse effect"



## The Bread Guy (4 Feb 2013)

> An Ontario arbitrator has decided an issue of increasing concern to employers everywhere – what can be done about tattoos and body piercings? The answer: not much, without objective evidence of an adverse effect on your business.
> 
> The Ottawa Hospital introduced a comprehensive dress code policy requiring, among other things, that employees cover up large tattoos and remove “visible, excessive” body piercings. The union grieved the dress code policy as an unreasonable infringement on employees’ right to express themselves through their appearance. The arbitrator agreed with the union and struck down the policy.
> 
> ...



Full article attached, link to Ottawa hospital decision here.


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## ModlrMike (4 Feb 2013)

Interstingly enough, at my hospital my tattoos have frequently been an asset rather than an obstacle. Not once has someone refused my treatment of them due to my tattoos.


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## BeyondTheNow (4 Feb 2013)

I don't see it as necessarily being any type of health and safety concern, and I don't, in any way, advocate _against_ tattoos or piercings. I understand that for several individuals it's a form of artistic self impression--not in ALL cases mind you, but in several.  For example, I simply got my tattoo on a whim after finishing a shift one day--nothing major, just a small butterfly on my ankle. There wasn't much thought put into it, nothing meaningful, I just liked it. I was 21-22. Since then, I've often contemplated getting another in some form of dedication to my son; but can't decide on what or where.

That being said, I'm old-school (I guess) in terms of what should be considered a professional appearance while in the workplace--any workplace.  My husband and I went to the movies recently and were served by a girl with holes all over her face and a tattoo on her left temple. I'm still used to the days when it was frowned upon to present yourself in that manner during a job interview, let alone actually being hired.

I personally have difficulty with anything showing on the face or in areas that a work uniform/appropriate workplace attire doesn't cover, or isn't in a more discreet location.  It just doesn't look "professional" in the sense that I was raised to be accustomed to. I understand that professionalism is more than just one's appearance; but depending on the type of specific employment in question I feel it shouldn't be accepted. 

Of course, an arguement would be should an individual be penalized based on a decision they made about a tattoo/piercing when they were young and/or impulsive? Probably not. The problem for me is that I really don't understand the level of impulsivity displayed in some instances these days--I just don't get it.  Some of these people are going to look terrible in 50 yrs, although they're probably just assuming they can have it removed or plastic surgery (those giant droopy earlobes?) by then...


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## Jarnhamar (4 Feb 2013)

Shuck10 said:
			
		

> That being said, I'm old-school (I guess) in terms of what should be considered a professional appearance while in the workplace--any workplace.  My husband and I went to the movies recently and were served by a girl with holes all over her face and a tattoo on her left temple. I'm still used to the days when it was frowned upon to present yourself in that manner during a job interview, let alone actually being hired.
> 
> I personally have difficulty with anything showing on the face or in areas that a work uniform/appropriate workplace attire doesn't cover, or isn't in a more discreet location.  It just doesn't look "professional" in the sense that I was raised to be accustomed to. I understand that professionalism is more than just one's appearance; but depending on the type of specific employment in question I feel it shouldn't be accepted.



I think some people had the same argument about homosexuals and women in professional jobs.




> I've often contemplated getting another in some form of dedication to my son; but can't decide on what or where.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarification


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## ambernewton04 (4 Feb 2013)

Shuck10 said:
			
		

> I don't see it as necessarily being any type of health and safety concern, and I don't, in any way, advocate _against_ tattoos or piercings. I understand that for several individuals it's a form of artistic self impression--not in ALL cases mind you, but in several.  For example, I simply got my tattoo on a whim after finishing a shift one day--nothing major, just a small butterfly on my ankle. There wasn't much thought put into it, nothing meaningful, I just liked it. I was 21-22. Since then, I've often contemplated getting another in some form of dedication to my son; but can't decide on what or where.
> 
> That being said, I'm old-school (I guess) in terms of what should be considered a professional appearance while in the workplace--any workplace.  My husband and I went to the movies recently and were served by a girl with holes all over her face and a tattoo on her left temple. I'm still used to the days when it was frowned upon to present yourself in that manner during a job interview, let alone actually being hired.
> 
> ...






I have two full sleeves, a chest piece and a back piece. I never really gave any thought to what others would think of them. None of my tattoos were on whim, but very carefully thought out. I got them for myself, which is why I have no issue covering them up when needed. All of my tattoos are coverable. I understand when it is and isn't appropriate to display them as well. When I went for my interview with the military, I made the conscious decision to wear a long sleeve blouse. I am not ashamed of my tattoos, however, I am well aware of the negative image it may give to some people.


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## BeyondTheNow (4 Feb 2013)

ambernewton04 said:
			
		

> I have two full sleeves, a chest piece and a back piece. I never really gave any thought to what others would think of them. None of my tattoos were on whim, but very carefully thought out. I got them for myself, which is why I have no issue covering them up when needed. All of my tattoos are coverable. I understand when it is and isn't appropriate to display them as well. When I went for my interview with the military, I made the conscious decision to wear a long sleeve blouse. I am not ashamed of my tattoos, however, I am well aware of the negative image it may give to some people.



I think the majority possess your level of responsibility, self-awareness and maturity where their body and its image are concerned, as well as sensitivity and courtesy to other's perceptions. I'm just always amazed with the few who don't... :-\


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## Strike (4 Feb 2013)

I can understand how piercings can be an issue in a hospital, depending on where they are and where the person is working.  I have heard enough horror stories (and witnessed a few myself) of the craziness of the ER and a piercing is just one more thing some dude hopped up on the drug-du-jour can grab at when he comes for a 'visit.'

But then, that is a health and safety issue.  Tattoos?  Not so much, although they should probably be covered if they have just been done and are still healing.  Goes back to health and safety.


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## BeyondTheNow (4 Feb 2013)

Strike said:
			
		

> I can understand how piercings can be an issue in a hospital, depending on where they are and where the person is working.  I have heard enough horror stories (and witnessed a few myself) of the craziness of the ER and a piercing is just one more thing some dude hopped up on the drug-du-jour can grab at when he comes for a 'visit.'
> 
> But then, that is a health and safety issue.  Tattoos?  Not so much, although they should probably be covered if they have just been done and are still healing.  Goes back to health and safety.



Absolutely right/agreed.  I had completely forgotten about my own time working in one quite a while ago. We were allowed studs (and only one) as they were more difficult to grab while restraining ("Formed") patients, but definitely no hoops or otherwise--even if they were small.  We also weren't allowed to wear ANY sort of jewelry if entering the MRI area--more of a precautionary measure than anything else, as I was never in the room while someone was undergoing testing.


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## mariomike (4 Feb 2013)

Although I never had one, there are now very few restrictions on tattoos where I used to work.

I came across this article, which may be of interest.

"Tattoos: A Word of Warning":
http://firelink.monster.com/benefits/articles/929-tattoos-a-word-of-warning


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## Journeyman (5 Feb 2013)

Does it really require any comment?


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## Scott (5 Feb 2013)

None.

Except he kind of looks like a member here >


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## The Bread Guy (5 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Does it really require any comment?


Looks like he'd breathe well at high altitudes with all that extra intake capacity....


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## Tank Troll (5 Feb 2013)

Imagine being near that him with a head cold! I remember seeing things like this in the National Geographic back in the 70s from a tribe called the Ubangi (spelling) or some such. I seriously thought we as a species had evolved out of the stone age and tribal life, apparently we are starting to digress back in to it.  :


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## Journeyman (5 Feb 2013)

Scott said:
			
		

> Except he kind of looks like a member here >


   :rofl:

Why, yes he does.   :nod:


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## Pandora114 (5 Feb 2013)

One of my husband's best buds from Ops Apollo and Athena, is very inked up.  I mean sleeves and chest and even the scalp..

He's probably a sgt in the RCD's now. *was a mcpl when we talked to him last* I know I wouldn't want anyone else next to me in a fire fight. I respect that man highly, and I know other people do too.


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## Strike (5 Feb 2013)

Scott said:
			
		

> None.
> 
> Except he kind of looks like a member here >



I thought the same!


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## brihard (5 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Does it really require any comment?


And when *you* need a tow or a sling load in a hurry, what do you plan to use as attachment points? 

(edited- because I suck at making funnies when I'm sleep deprived.)


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## Sig_Des (5 Feb 2013)

You know what actually scares me? The fact that it seems like her hairline is receding more than mine.


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## Journeyman (5 Feb 2013)

This is the girl now:




I didn't know that ink was contageous.

And I think her hairline is the least of her worries.


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## Halifax Tar (5 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> This is the girl now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have tatoos and piercings but sweet jesus that takes it to a whole new level...

Personally so long as its not offensive I dont give a rats ass what you want painted on you or stuck into you...


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## Tank Troll (5 Feb 2013)

Pandora114 said:
			
		

> One of my husband's best buds from Ops Apollo and Athena, is very inked up.  I mean sleeves and chest and even the scalp..
> 
> He's probably a sgt in the RCD's now. *was a mcpl when we talked to him last* I know I wouldn't want anyone else next to me in a fire fight. I respect that man highly, and I know other people do too.



If it is who I'm thinking of then I agree with you about the fire team partner. I've got no issues with any of it but when and why did shrapnel become a fashion accessory


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## Fishbone Jones (5 Feb 2013)

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> If it is who I'm thinking of then i agree with you about the fire team partner but he doesn't have any on his head. I got now issues with any of it but when and why did shrapnel become a fashion accessory


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## mariomike (15 Apr 2013)

The arbitrator wrote: "I accept, then, the hospital’s assertions that some patients might have a more negative first impression of a tattooed or pierced hospital staff member than they would of a staff member who was not tattooed or pierced. I also accept that the lack of complaints does not necessarily mean that there is no uneasiness felt by some patients. What I cannot accept is the hospital’s argument that there is a connection between these feelings and health care outcomes. The hospital provided no evidence whatsoever for this assertion, which seems to be based only on the personal opinions of [the Manager] and possibly other senior managers." 
http://lawofwork.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/OttawaHospital.pdf

According to the employer, “at least some patients are put off by health care providers sporting tattoos and piercings, and that if the hospital can save any patient some anxiety by requiring employees to cover tattoos and remove piercings, that is a small sacrifice for the employee.”  

It was pointed out that, "This was a unionized ( CUPE ) workplace, so the union was able to file a grievance under the collective agreement challenging the new policy. No human rights argument was raised. A unionized employer cannot impose dress and appearance codes based on the personal views and biases of managers."

"Non-union employers can usually impose whatever dress or appearance code they wish, subject to any human rights issues that could arise. Unionized workers clearly have a greater right to personal expression at work."

Management lost the arbitration, but their personal "views and biases" ( likely shared by other employers ) are on record. 

I read some discussion of what effect, if any, it might have on Emergency Services applicants. 

There is a recent S.O.P. where I used to work, "Tattoos depicting nudity, obscenity, racial, sexual, political or social bias must be covered. Tattoos must not contravene the Ontario Human Rights Code or the City of Toronto Harassment policies."

Although an applicant can not be legally disqualified for having a visible tattoo, the S.O.P. does not necessarily reflect the opinion of management. It is something they had to agree to with the union to avoid arbitration.

It has been unofficially suggested that candidates ( applicants ) waiting to go in front of a departmental oral board ( an interview panel of "managers and other senior managers" aka Commanders and Chiefs ), and probies probationary paramedics trying to stay off the radar, may wish to consider waiting until after being hired, _and off probation_, before getting ( or adding ) tattoos that will be visible in a short-sleeved shirt.


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