# RANDOM WW1 badge collection found!



## cmsl333 (18 Mar 2011)

My brother and I recently found this collection of badges my great great uncle collected and has since been stored in a barn.  Random find.  Anyone know much about these badges?  My brother has taken a picture of a lot of them.  It's an interesting collection.  Little over 1500 badges.  Talk to me...what do I have here?????

http://s935.photobucket.com/home/nearnorth


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## Michael OLeary (18 Mar 2011)

I think you were getting some pretty sound advice on the British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum 

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15319

You have a very serious collection with some very valuable badges, DO NOT sell anything until you have them professionally appraised by a very experienced collector or auction house.


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## cmsl333 (18 Mar 2011)

Perspective(s) is/are everything. Plus doesn't hurt to share this collection with others that wouldn't normally google them.  A week ago I had zero interest in these badges; now I have a new found respect.  There might be someone else that may come across either threads and be intrigued as I was at first glance.  May even luck out with an old fart on here that isn't on the _other_ forum that can truly appreciate the collection.


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## ballz (18 Mar 2011)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> I think you were getting some pretty sound advice on the British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum
> 
> http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15319
> 
> You have a very serious collection with some very valuable badges, DO NOT sell anything until you have them professionally appraised by a very experienced collector or auction house.



More than one!

Good luck cmsl333


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## brihard (18 Mar 2011)

Oh. Friggin'. Wow. That is a HELL of a collection you've found there. Absolutely stunning. Congratulations on the find- now have fun learning about some of these regiments!


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## Strike (18 Mar 2011)

In the meantime, whatever you do, DON'T polish them.  The patina is protecting them.

Awesome collection there.  I'm impressed.


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## Old Sweat (18 Mar 2011)

I agree with everything that has been said. You have found an incredible trove of militaria. My grandfather, who served in the 3rd Bn CEF, had a small collection of about 15-25 badges and buttons he apprarently collected while recuperating in a hospital.  Honour the soldiers who wore these bages and find out as much as you can about the treasure trove.


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## cmsl333 (18 Mar 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> In the meantime, whatever you do, DON'T polish them.  The patina is protecting them.









Thoughts on any badges looking like this?  Clean or not to clean?


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## Michael OLeary (18 Mar 2011)

From the Great War Forum: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67021



> QUOTE (wainfleet @ Jan 9 2007, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
> Use a brass brush on it till the verdigris has gone. Brass won't scratch brass.
> 
> A Top Tip!!
> Concur with wainfleet on this one,a small suede brush or similar is ideal for removing verdegris from such Badges & won't damage the surface.I have used one on many badges over the past 40 odd years to no detriment,which is more than can be said for the verdigris!



Or from here: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/medals-decorations/13343-removal-verdigris.html



> I hesitate to suggest anything. Cleaning is risky business... restoration is best left to professionals.
> 
> If the verdigris is light, wiping with vinegar may remove it. Follow with a water rinse.
> 
> ...


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## cmsl333 (18 Mar 2011)

Thanks for the links. My brother and I have some reading to do.

Side note, someone posted on the other forum about "The White Collection" found in England.  Can anyone elaborate on this collection? Significance?


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## Strike (18 Mar 2011)

If you're considering giving it up/selling it, try the Army Officers' Mess in Ottawa.  They have a pretty large collection of cap badges and you may have some that they are missing.  ER Campbell may be able to fill in some info on this.


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## Michael OLeary (19 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> Side note, someone posted on the other forum about "The White Collection" found in England.  Can anyone elaborate on this collection? Significance?



Sometimes when a major collection put together by a well-known collector over years is sold at auction they are known as a named collection and recognized for the integrity of its provenance which is used to support the fact that the badges are fully verified as authentic.


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## Edward Campbell (19 Mar 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> If you're considering giving it up/selling it, try the Army Officers' Mess in Ottawa.  They have a pretty large collection of cap badges and you may have some that they are missing.  ER Campbell may be able to fill in some info on this.




The Army Officers' Mess collection is a long term loan from the late Col. Gardham; I doubt it can be modified in any way.

Without knowing who or where you are, cmsl333, I suggest you contact Michael O'Leary by PM for some advice: he is a well known collector, himself, and, having known him for some years, I am sure he will give you honest and fair guidance. As others have said, this is a collection of potential historical interest and, probably, of some monetary value too. Avail yourself of the help that is available here, through Army.ca.


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## larry Strong (19 Mar 2011)

And please feel free to post piccie's ;D


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## Dennis Ruhl (19 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> Thoughts on any badges looking like this?  Clean or not to clean?



If that's a real 9th Battalion, it is exceedingly rare.  The 9th Battalion wore Edmonton Fusilier badges.  When it became a reserve battalion through which replacements flowed, only the staff had 9th Battalion badges and there weren't many staff.  It looks like one known to be real and unlike one suspected to be fake.


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## chrisf (19 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> Thoughts on any badges looking like this?  Clean or not to clean?



From me dear ol' mum who works in a archives, with a bunch of conservators... DON'T! Any sort of cleaning, particularly amateur cleaning, won't do anything to increase the value, and you risk damaging.

According to her, cleaning any sort of tarnish on metals is a risky business even by professionals... unless it's specificy required for display, and going to be stabilized to prevent future tarnish, they usually don't bother... every time you clean oxidization, you're removing what used to be metal, exposing clean metal underneath, which in turn is going to eventually become oxidized itself, whereas if you leave the oxidization in place, it serves as a barrier between the air and the metal underneath.


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## Michael OLeary (19 Mar 2011)

Firstly, there's a big difference between "cleaning" badges like these and "polishing " them.

Cleaning them to remove built-up dirt and grime can be accomplished with a bit of soap and water, using a very soft bristle brush to get into the crevices. Cleaning should not be vigorous enough to affect the natural patina of the metal, but will get the grime off to ensure that corrosion isn't happening where it cannot be seen.

Corrosion, like the green verdigris on the 9th Battalion badge, can damage the metal surface and should be arrested and when possible removed by methods that do not affect the metal surface underneath.  Thorough research and consultation with experienced professionals can lead to recommendations for the right materials and techniques. (The verdigris is not a protective oxidation process, it is more like rust on steel than it is like an oxidization patina on silver.) Any advice should be carefully cross-checked to ensure there is consensus among the consulted references.

Cleaning Methods for Removing Verdigris from Vintage Jewelry

At no time should abrasive polishes of any sort be used - no Brasso, no Silvo, no Twinkle, etc., etc., etc.  All of these, and everything like them, include small particles which scour the surface and will remove material.


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## vonGarvin (19 Mar 2011)

Those are amazing!  And I second Mr. E.R. Campbell's advice.  Mr. O'Leary is the one person who can offer you the proper guidance on what to do with these.


And thank you for sharing with us!


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## cmsl333 (19 Mar 2011)

Thank you all for your insight.  First things first, my brother and I are organizing the collection to see what we have and what don't have. 

Does anyone else in Canada have a near complete collection?


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## Michael OLeary (19 Mar 2011)

There is a complete set of CEF battalion badges on display at The RCR Museum in London. Having a complete set is not something that many collectors will brag about, it opens them to visits from unsavory characters.


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## Dennis Ruhl (19 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> Thank you all for your insight.  First things first, my brother and I are organizing the collection to see what we have and what don't have.
> 
> Does anyone else in Canada have a near complete collection?



Some battalions had numerous variations, some close and some totally different.


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## the 48th regulator (19 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> Thank you all for your insight.  First things first, my brother and I are organizing the collection to see what we have and what don't have.
> 
> Does anyone else in Canada have a near complete collection?



Some places you may want to look;

http://cmcf.forumotion.ca/forum

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2246528180

As for your badges, I would advise selling of the 48th items, to the neatest guy that has offered advice.  Especially one who has 48th in their username.  Just my opinion  


dileas

tess


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## ballz (20 Mar 2011)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Some places you may want to look;
> 
> http://cmcf.forumotion.ca/forum
> 
> ...



For a discount too of course. That advice ain't cheap!


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## cmsl333 (20 Mar 2011)

I truly appreciate these pieces of the collection. Can anyone elaborate more on these items? Kind of neat holding a piece of history potentially from the Battle of Vimy Ridge.


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## Michael OLeary (20 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> I truly appreciate these pieces of the collection. Can anyone elaborate more on these items? Kind of neat holding a piece of history potentially from the Battle of Vimy Ridge.



One is a matchbox holder, the other is an identity bracelet. The identity bracelets were personal purchases, not issued by the army.

You can start on my pages at this link to research the man. The first page will guide you to finding him on the Library and Archives Canada database for First World War soldiers, from which you can order his service record.

Researching Canadian Soldiers of the First World War - Part 1: Find your Man (or Woman)


Name: STEELS, HERBERT WILLIAM
Regimental number(s): 172366
Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 9259 - 42
Date of Birth: 16/02/1875

His attestation paper:

http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gat3/114873a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gat3/114873b.gif


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## cmsl333 (21 Mar 2011)

Out of curiosity with this information - what other records could be obtained?


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## Michael OLeary (21 Mar 2011)

cmsl333 said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity with this information - what other records could be obtained?



On my website is a series of 18 pages that introduce the subject of researching Canadian soldiers of the First World War. If you review the set of pages it will give you a good idea of what research is possible into the soldier and his unit(s).

Part 1: Find your Man (or Woman)

Beyond his military service, you could also research his personal life and family. For that, acquiring his service record would be a good start to identify home address, next of kin, etc. There are many genealogical sites that will provide guidance on that when you reach that point.


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## cmsl333 (21 Mar 2011)

Michael O'Leary you're an asset!  Thanks for your help thus far.  My brother and I will have plenty more questions for you in the coming weeks  

A notion came to me...

A collection such as this or any of yours, will it increase in value as the pre-boomers and boomers age and pass on? I ponder _if_ with new generations the interest and ultimately the value drops off.  Is the connection to WW2 driving this market?  How many youthful badge collectors are out there??


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