# Laying a Wreath



## BDTyre (7 Nov 2008)

A group I'm with has asked me to lay a wreath at the cenotaph in my community, on account of the fact that the veterans in the group are of ill-health and likely won't make it to the parade.  As a wreath-layer, I will have to confirm whether or not I'm part of the parade or simply will already be at the cenotaph.  I've been asked to do this in my DEUs, and my regiment has rather eagerly given me their blessing as they have their own agenda - I'm to be on a recruiting mission for the regiment.  As such, I was given great tips on the recruiting aspect, but no one gave me any kind of instruction on lay the wreath.

So...what do I do?  Other than the obvious - lay the wreath.  Do I salute after laying it?  Do I march up, lay it, about turn and march off?  My community has no "official" military presence spare an air cadets squadron and a sea cadets...something.  There will be one other serving member there that I'm aware of, and he is acting as the parade's chaplain.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Kat Stevens (7 Nov 2008)

March up, halt, lay the wreath, one pace backward, salute, about turn, march off.


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## Eye In The Sky (7 Nov 2008)

IIRC,  you salute before and after laying the wreath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPzBluD4njg


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## Nfld Sapper (7 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> IIRC,  you salute before and after laying the wreath.



Sounds right there EITS


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## Eye In The Sky (7 Nov 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Sounds right there EITS



I'm guessing from memory that the Remembrance Parade format is covered in Chap 11 of CFP201.  I am not sure though if that (saluting) is covered in detail there?  But I am almost positive its Chap 11 of 201.


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## Nfld Sapper (8 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I'm guessing from memory that the Remembrance Parade format is covered in Chap 11 of CFP201.  I am not sure though if that (saluting) is covered in detail there?  But I am almost positive its Chap 11 of 201.



This is all I can find for REMEMBRANCE SERVICES:



> 10. The accompanying wreath bearers shall be
> one pace to the left rear of the dignitary, carrying the
> wreath in the left hand whenever possible. When the
> dignitary salutes or bows his head, the bearer shall
> salute


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2008)

More info here.

Note on the page on wreath laying, it does not specifically say to salute after approaching, but I've never seen it done that way.  Its always been halt, salute, lay wreath, pace back, salute, right turn, quick march for when the 2 mbrs laying the wreath were CF.  (eg. the CO and RSM laying the wreath of behalf of the CF.) 

I've also seen Snr NCOs that were escorts/wreath carriers, who saluted before and after laying the wreath, and also only after the wreath was laid (mostly in the case of escorting elderly people laying wreaths, where they literally were assisting the person and it would not have been smart to just suddenly halt and let go of their left arm).


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## the 48th regulator (8 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> More info here.
> 
> Note on the page on wreath laying, it does not specifically say to salute after approaching, but I've never seen it done that way.  Its always been halt, salute, lay wreath, pace back, salute, right turn, quick march for when the 2 mbrs laying the wreath were CF.  (eg. the CO and RSM laying the wreath of behalf of the CF.)
> 
> I've also seen Snr NCOs that were escorts/wreath carriers, who saluted before and after laying the wreath, and also only after the wreath was laid (mostly in the case of escorting elderly people laying wreaths, where they literally were assisting the person and it would not have been smart to just suddenly halt and let go of their left arm).


The reason is,

They are not supposed to be saluting the person/people who have died in service, when they arrived at the point of placing the Wreath, but saluting the act of rememberance to them.

Therefore, although out of respect by saluting the actual fallen, the people you saw were doing a technical error.  The link you gave spells it out.

dileas

tess


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2008)

One of the people I saw saluting before laying the wreath was an Area CWO...Snr Officers...you name it.


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## the 48th regulator (8 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> One of the people I saw saluting before laying the wreath was an Area CWO...Snr Officers...you name it.



And they were wrong.  You gave the link.

Rank does not have privilege.

dileas

tess


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## BDTyre (8 Nov 2008)

It seems the consent is to salute after laying the wreath.  I'll have to make sure the MC knows that I am presenting the wreath on behalf of "other organizations" and not on behalf of the CF, so that I don't end up in the wrong slot in the order of precedence.


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## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2008)

Tess is correct: march up, halt, dwell a pause, place the wreath, one pace back, salute, turn about, and march off. Make sure your "two, three" pause is a bit slower than normal - _Guards timing_ is appropriate; 11 Nov is something akin to a "slow march" ceremony.

There may not be, in smaller communities likely will not be, wreath bearers. That means you mach up carrying the wreath yourself, in both hands if it is that large, halt, pause, lay the wreath, etc.

Make sure you now, before the event, where you stand/wait and, especially, where your wreath goes. Take an extra second or two, if necessary, to ensure your wreath is properly placed and will not topple over before the end of the service.

As a uniformed individual you must salute at all the appropriate _places_ in the service, Last Post, Reveille, etc.

Do well; this is an important duty.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2008)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Tess is correct: march up, halt, dwell a pause, place the wreath, one pace back, salute, turn about, and march off. Make sure your "two, three" pause is a bit slower than normal - _Guards timing_ is appropriate; 11 Nov is something akin to a "slow march" ceremony.



After the salute, I believe its turn to the right?

Its odd that so many times when it came to seeing COs and RSMs laying a wreath on behalf of the CF, I've watched them salute both before and after laying the wreath.  I never questioned it after the first time I saw which was after several years in, as I was usually on the Vigil.  You learn something new every day.

When I did a quick search for videos and found the one I posted above, the first one I saw was the one I posted, where they salute before and after.  I think those were British service people in that video, not Canadian.  I thought that there would be 'one standard' for this one.


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## Franko (8 Nov 2008)

Tess is right, as is Edward. Only one salute followed by an about turn. 

Normally it's only a right turn because there is room to march off and if there are civilian wreath bearers it screws them up a bit.

I've laid a few wreaths and had to look it up as well, just to CYA.

Regards


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## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2008)

The "____ turn and march off" should be dictated by the organizers.

Recce By Death is corect: a right (or less often left) turn followed by the march off is normal because you may have a bit of a line up of other wreath layers right behind you.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2008)

I've been looking, and the only ref I can find is at all is here on the Veterans Affairs website.  It states  a right turn.

Then again...you aren't supposed to salute prior on the approach either.   ;D   

The important thing, I think, is to understand the format followed by your local Legion/organizer and make sure you know that.

CanadianTire, hope we didn't go off on too much of a tangent.  As E.R. Campbell said, remember to salute during the ceremony during:

- O Canada
- during Last Post, the 2 minute silence, and Reveille (more properly, Rouse).  You hold the salute from the beginning of Last Post until the end of Reveille/Rouse.
- God Save The Queen


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## Kat Stevens (8 Nov 2008)

Soooo.... Two pages later, and it turns out I was right?  Who'd a thunk it?


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Soooo.... Two pages later, and it turns out I was right?  Who'd a thunk it?



Ya hats off to ya!    ;D

All of those Res and Reg Force CWOs and Snr Officers I've watch f**k  it up should give you a call so you can jack them up.


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## BDTyre (8 Nov 2008)

Thanks for the help everyone.

I knew about the saluting, but not the propper procedure for wreath laying.  Though - saluting during the two minutes of silence- isn't it just "remove headdress?"  Or, since I'm not with my regiment, do I remove headdress _and_ salute?



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I've been looking, and the only ref I can find is at all is here on the Veterans Affairs website.  It states  a right turn.
> 
> Then again...you aren't supposed to salute prior on the approach either.   ;D
> 
> ...


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Nov 2008)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help everyone.
> 
> I knew about the saluting, but not the propper procedure for wreath laying.  Though - saluting during the two minutes of silence- isn't it just "remove headdress?"  Or, since I'm not with my regiment, do I remove headdress _and_ salute?



You *never* salute with headdress removed.

And no...headdress is not normally removed for the 2 minutes of silence.

From CFP 201, Chapter 11, Para 7.

7.  The remembrance ceremony itself commences with the band playing “O Canada”. The parade shall remove headdress prior to prayers of remembrance; headdress is replaced on completion of prayers.

But, were you told something by the folks organizing the service you are attending that made you think you would have headdress removed?  The Parade should be called to Attention for Last Post and not told to Stand At Ease until Reveille/Rouse is complete.


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## BDTyre (8 Nov 2008)

EITS - no, I'm trying to remember last year when I was in the parade with my regiment.  We removed headdress and some point, I just don't remember at which point.  I know not to salute without headdress, that's why I was a little confused (I was certain that last year we removed headdress for the two minutes of silence, now I'm not so sure).

I'm sending off an email to get more details on where I'm supposed to be in relation to everyone else.


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## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2008)

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> EITS - no, I'm trying to remember last year when I was in the parade with my regiment.  We removed headdress and some point, I just don't remember at which point.  I know not to salute without headdress, that's why I was a little confused (I was certain that last year we removed headdress for the two minutes of silence, now I'm not so sure).
> 
> I'm sending off an email to get more details on where I'm supposed to be in relation to everyone else.



Arrive a few minutes early and talk to the person in charge to make sure you understand what the organizers have planned. The organizers are, usually, Royal Canadian Legion people - many with previous military service - but they often follow old rules and that's OK. Don't break any important rules (saluting when headdress is removed, etc) but follow the organizers' rules for *their* ceremony and be a bit flexible. The *vital* thing is to do your part with the _grace_ and dignity the occasion demands - you are honouring our war dead, those who have made the supreme sacrifice for you and me, not participating in a drill competition. If in doubt do the most *dignified* thing.


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