# Re: 3ppcli



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Timothy Gunn <Timothy_Gunn@excite.com>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:15:57 -0800 (PST)*
Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it then we
will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every area. Like
we do already. 
Timothy Gunn
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:52:16 -0500*
A quick reaction for what type of scenario are you dreaming up . The British
have just disbanded their Airborne Brigade,  are only going to retain a
Parachute capability in one Battalion of their new Air Assault/Heliborne
Brigade, this is just on the off chance that they might be in a situation
where they would be involved in a crisis without the Americans like a former
colony with lots of British citizens there  the main airport would have to
be secured to evacuate these people  this only if it were impossible to
Land the Royal Marines !
When would Canada be faced with a thing like that ?
I suppose we could have dropped the airborne on OKA ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Gunn 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: 3ppcli
>Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it then we
>will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every area.
Like
>we do already.
>
>Timothy Gunn
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Get 100 FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>Visit  http://freeworld.excite.com 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:57:57 -0700 *
Can‘t we be as effective by disbandnig large scale jump-qualified pers and
beef up heliborne op capibilities?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
> Sent:Friday, March 03, 2000 1:52 PM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:Re: 3ppcli
> 
> A quick reaction for what type of scenario are you dreaming up . The
> British
> have just disbanded their Airborne Brigade,  are only going to retain a
> Parachute capability in one Battalion of their new Air Assault/Heliborne
> Brigade, this is just on the off chance that they might be in a situation
> where they would be involved in a crisis without the Americans like a
> former
> colony with lots of British citizens there  the main airport would have
> to
> be secured to evacuate these people  this only if it were impossible to
> Land the Royal Marines !
> When would Canada be faced with a thing like that ?
> I suppose we could have dropped the airborne on OKA ?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy Gunn 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
> 
> 
> >Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it then we
> >will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every area.
> Like
> >we do already.
> >
> >Timothy Gunn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________
> >Get 100 FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
> >Visit  http://freeworld.excite.com 
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:15:23 -0500*
YES WE CERTAINLY CAN BE EFFECTIVE BY PLACING THESE JUMP QUALIFIED TROOPS
INTO HELICOPTERS !
-----Original Message-----
From: Derrick Forsythe 
To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘ 
Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: 3ppcli
>Can‘t we be as effective by disbandnig large scale jump-qualified pers and
>beef up heliborne op capibilities?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 1:52 PM
>> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
>>
>> A quick reaction for what type of scenario are you dreaming up . The
>> British
>> have just disbanded their Airborne Brigade,  are only going to retain a
>> Parachute capability in one Battalion of their new Air Assault/Heliborne
>> Brigade, this is just on the off chance that they might be in a situation
>> where they would be involved in a crisis without the Americans like a
>> former
>> colony with lots of British citizens there  the main airport would have
>> to
>> be secured to evacuate these people  this only if it were impossible to
>> Land the Royal Marines !
>> When would Canada be faced with a thing like that ?
>> I suppose we could have dropped the airborne on OKA ?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Timothy Gunn 
>> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
>>
>>
>> >Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it then we
>> >will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every area.
>> Like
>> >we do already.
>> >
>> >Timothy Gunn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________________
>> >Get 100 FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>> >Visit  http://freeworld.excite.com 
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >message body.
>>
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>> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> message body.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:20:18 -0700 *
but do they need to be jump qualified
> -----Original Message-----
> From:John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
> Sent:Friday, March 03, 2000 2:15 PM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:Re: 3ppcli
> 
> YES WE CERTAINLY CAN BE EFFECTIVE BY PLACING THESE JUMP QUALIFIED TROOPS
> INTO HELICOPTERS !
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derrick Forsythe 
> To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘ 
> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 4:12 PM
> Subject: RE: 3ppcli
> 
> 
> >Can‘t we be as effective by disbandnig large scale jump-qualified pers
> and
> >beef up heliborne op capibilities?
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 1:52 PM
> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
> >>
> >> A quick reaction for what type of scenario are you dreaming up . The
> >> British
> >> have just disbanded their Airborne Brigade,  are only going to retain
> a
> >> Parachute capability in one Battalion of their new Air
> Assault/Heliborne
> >> Brigade, this is just on the off chance that they might be in a
> situation
> >> where they would be involved in a crisis without the Americans like a
> >> former
> >> colony with lots of British citizens there  the main airport would
> have
> >> to
> >> be secured to evacuate these people  this only if it were impossible
> to
> >> Land the Royal Marines !
> >> When would Canada be faced with a thing like that ?
> >> I suppose we could have dropped the airborne on OKA ?
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Timothy Gunn 
> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> >> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
> >>
> >>
> >> >Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it then
> we
> >> >will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every
> area.
> >> Like
> >> >we do already.
> >> >
> >> >Timothy Gunn
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________________
> >> >Get 100 FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
> >> >Visit  http://freeworld.excite.com 
> >> >
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >message body.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> message body.
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> >
> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:45:24 -0500*
Perhaps just keep a company of jump qualified troopers on the remote chance
of needing them in a situation where insertion by parachute would be
necessary !
-----Original Message-----
From: Derrick Forsythe 
To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘ 
Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: 3ppcli
>but do they need to be jump qualified
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 2:15 PM
>> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
>>
>> YES WE CERTAINLY CAN BE EFFECTIVE BY PLACING THESE JUMP QUALIFIED TROOPS
>> INTO HELICOPTERS !
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Derrick Forsythe 
>> To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘ 
>> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 4:12 PM
>> Subject: RE: 3ppcli
>>
>>
>> >Can‘t we be as effective by disbandnig large scale jump-qualified pers
>> and
>> >beef up heliborne op capibilities?
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
>> >> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 1:52 PM
>> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
>> >>
>> >> A quick reaction for what type of scenario are you dreaming up . The
>> >> British
>> >> have just disbanded their Airborne Brigade,  are only going to retain
>> a
>> >> Parachute capability in one Battalion of their new Air
>> Assault/Heliborne
>> >> Brigade, this is just on the off chance that they might be in a
>> situation
>> >> where they would be involved in a crisis without the Americans like a
>> >> former
>> >> colony with lots of British citizens there  the main airport would
>> have
>> >> to
>> >> be secured to evacuate these people  this only if it were impossible
>> to
>> >> Land the Royal Marines !
>> >> When would Canada be faced with a thing like that ?
>> >> I suppose we could have dropped the airborne on OKA ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Timothy Gunn 
>> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>> >> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:38 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it then
>> we
>> >> >will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every
>> area.
>> >> Like
>> >> >we do already.
>> >> >
>> >> >Timothy Gunn
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >_______________________________________________________
>> >> >Get 100 FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>> >> >Visit  http://freeworld.excite.com 
>> >> >
>> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >> >message body.
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >> message body.
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
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>> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >message body.
>> >
>>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:53:14 -0700 *
that sounds reasonalbe - we may need to insert Forward Observers, long range
recce, or a force large enough to hold a key piece of ground for a short
period of time.
large-scale para ops are nearly as obsolete as most of our reserve
environmental kit - but that‘s another story.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From:John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
> Sent:Friday, March 03, 2000 2:45 PM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:Re: 3ppcli
> 
> Perhaps just keep a company of jump qualified troopers on the remote
> chance
> of needing them in a situation where insertion by parachute would be
> necessary !
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derrick Forsythe 
> To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘ 
> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 4:33 PM
> Subject: RE: 3ppcli
> 
> 
> >but do they need to be jump qualified
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 2:15 PM
> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
> >>
> >> YES WE CERTAINLY CAN BE EFFECTIVE BY PLACING THESE JUMP QUALIFIED
> TROOPS
> >> INTO HELICOPTERS !
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Derrick Forsythe 
> >> To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘ 
> >> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 4:12 PM
> >> Subject: RE: 3ppcli
> >>
> >>
> >> >Can‘t we be as effective by disbandnig large scale jump-qualified pers
> >> and
> >> >beef up heliborne op capibilities?
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: John Gilmour [SMTP:jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com]
> >> >> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 1:52 PM
> >> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
> >> >>
> >> >> A quick reaction for what type of scenario are you dreaming up . The
> >> >> British
> >> >> have just disbanded their Airborne Brigade,  are only going to
> retain
> >> a
> >> >> Parachute capability in one Battalion of their new Air
> >> Assault/Heliborne
> >> >> Brigade, this is just on the off chance that they might be in a
> >> situation
> >> >> where they would be involved in a crisis without the Americans like
> a
> >> >> former
> >> >> colony with lots of British citizens there  the main airport would
> >> have
> >> >> to
> >> >> be secured to evacuate these people  this only if it were
> impossible
> >> to
> >> >> Land the Royal Marines !
> >> >> When would Canada be faced with a thing like that ?
> >> >> I suppose we could have dropped the airborne on OKA ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Timothy Gunn 
> >> >> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> >> >> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:38 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: 3ppcli
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Your completely right. We need our Airborne. If we don‘t have it
> then
> >> we
> >> >> >will not have a quick reaction unit. We need to have one in every
> >> area.
> >> >> Like
> >> >> >we do already.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Timothy Gunn
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >_______________________________________________________
> >> >> >Get 100 FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
> >> >> >Visit  http://freeworld.excite.com 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >> >message body.
> >> >>
> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >> message body.
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >message body.
> >> >
> >>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:16:22 -0800*
>but do they need to be jump qualified
Yes.  The real issue isn‘t one particular means of delivery.  The real issues
are readiness and a well-rounded skill set.  Any decent infantry unit can
probably be trained to employ airborne or airmobile delivery in a couple of
weeks, but that‘s time one does not have in a crisis.  We should have at least
one unit with capability somewhere between our regular infantry and JTF2,
because there are always going to be contingencies for which the line battalions
are inadequate and JTF2 is a potential waste of valuable resources rather like
using Coyote to do "sneak-and-peek".  Such a unit should be proficient in using
parachutes, helicopters, boats, or any other reasonable means to insert into any
likely area of ops.  Note that I‘m not proposing assaults into defended DZ/LZ or
shorelines, but rather to a staging point perhaps secured by JTF2 for the
subsequent mission.
Brad Sallows
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:23:49 -0700 *
but it‘s small - certainly no larger than a coy - right?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Bradley Sallows [SMTP:Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com]
> Sent:Friday, March 03, 2000 3:16 PM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:RE: 3ppcli
> 
> 
> 
> >but do they need to be jump qualified
> 
> Yes.  The real issue isn‘t one particular means of delivery.  The real
> issues
> are readiness and a well-rounded skill set.  Any decent infantry unit can
> probably be trained to employ airborne or airmobile delivery in a couple
> of
> weeks, but that‘s time one does not have in a crisis.  We should have at
> least
> one unit with capability somewhere between our regular infantry and JTF2,
> because there are always going to be contingencies for which the line
> battalions
> are inadequate and JTF2 is a potential waste of valuable resources rather
> like
> using Coyote to do "sneak-and-peek".  Such a unit should be proficient in
> using
> parachutes, helicopters, boats, or any other reasonable means to insert
> into any
> likely area of ops.  Note that I‘m not proposing assaults into defended
> DZ/LZ or
> shorelines, but rather to a staging point perhaps secured by JTF2 for
> the
> subsequent mission.
> 
> Brad Sallows
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:54:44 -0800*
>but it‘s small - certainly no larger than a coy - right?
No.  I advocate what would be essentially a light infantry battalion.  Recce,
mortar, and pioneer are all necessary specialities.  One could add a small air
defence element.  We don‘t have a medium-range anti-armour system, and that
coupled with the adoption of Eryx might be a reason to remove the anti-armour
platoon.  Alternately, since one presumably doesn‘t intend to employ such a
force in circumstances where heavy armour in mass squadron  is a threat, and
Eryx is heavy, one might reduce Eryx holdings in the line companies to one per
platoon and retain 12 to 20 launchers in the anti-armour platoon.
Brad Sallows
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