# Brigade, Command, Division badge [army side]



## jjiang (1 Feb 2015)

Hello:

I remember seeing a thread somewhere that answered why CIC do not wear brigade, command, or division badge. However, I can't seem to locate it via search. Is anyone able to kindly provide details on the topic?

Thanks,

JJ


----------



## RedcapCrusader (1 Feb 2015)

The CIC is it's own branch, a subcomponent of the Reserve Force called Cadet Organizations Administration and Training Service (COATS). The CIC do not report to Divisional or Brigade commands, they report to the Director Reserves & Cadets through the RCSU's.


----------



## jjiang (2 Feb 2015)

Thank you, is that also why they wear the same cap badge because they are their own branch?

Would that mean RCSU runs as a capacity of a Brigade/division?


----------



## RedcapCrusader (2 Feb 2015)

jjiang said:
			
		

> Thank you, is that also why they wear the same cap badge because they are their own branch?
> 
> Would that mean RCSU runs as a capacity of a Brigade/division?



Essentially yes.


----------



## quadrapiper (2 Feb 2015)

This is all getting re-shuffled - there's a more direction chain of command being stood up, with the RCSUs answering directly to the national level. 

Not sure how that'll effect the more ceremonial side of things - and, it not being my service, could never quite follow the reasoning (though I am led to believe it follows some sort of coherent scheme) that didn't see Army CIC, under RCSUs falling under divisions, not wearing division patches.

Under the old scheme, RCSUs (and their subordinate corps and squadrons) belonged directly to the appropriate command: RCSU Pacific, for example, to MARPAC. DCdts didn't have a direct line of command to the RCSUs, but was rather a source of policy governing cadet activities.

On another note, CIC specifically are reassuming the older tri-service maple leaf cap badge (same one that's my avatar), replacing the long-used semi-demi-official element-specific ones.


----------



## my72jeep (2 Feb 2015)

There was talk of the CIL using that badge back in the late 80s early 90s. So its back again? that sucks.


----------



## LittleBlackDevil (20 Feb 2020)

Browsing through the forum, I came across this post and it triggered a question.

Does anyone know what the latest update is on CIC officers and Brigade/Division badges? Recently, we had a CIC officer (captain) visiting from out of town, I forget what his position is, but he was not attached to a particular corps, rather the RCSU I believe or the Cadet school at CFB Borden.

He had the 31 Brigade and 4th Division patches on the right sleeve of his 5B as per CANFORGEN 168/18.

The above-noted CANFORGEN is significantly more recent than the most recent post in this thread, so I am wondering does this change things and to CIC officers now wear Brigade/Div patches, or would this officer only be wearing them because he's with RCSU rather than a Corps? I'm not seeing RCSU listed as a unit under the local Brigade Group though.

I'd be more than happy to buy the Brigade and Div badges when I get into uniform, but obviously don't want to be wearing something on my uniform I shouldn't.


----------



## sapperboysen (20 Feb 2020)

CIC officers are not under the army command and so do not wear brigade or division patches. The formation is working on the wearing of either the formation badge or RCSU badge while in combats but this has not been authorized yet. 
Are you sure the officer was CIC and not a Reg F officer from the RCSU? There a number of Reg F and P Res members that work for the RCSU's but retain their regimental identities and this could have been such a member. There are also some rare circumstances where CIC officers have been employed in other areas of the CF and that could also be the reason why. Also don't discount that this member could have just been way outside his arcs of fire and worn something he shouldn't have. Not an uncommon occurrence in our branch unfortunately.


----------



## LittleBlackDevil (20 Feb 2020)

I was sure he had a CIC cap badge, but now I am doubting myself. He's come down a couple times so if I see him again I'll ask.

Formation or RCSU badge would be good. Personally I like how the brigade patches look in the combats.


----------



## garb811 (20 Feb 2020)

KIB said:
			
		

> ...There a number of Reg F and P Res members that work for the RCSU's but retain their regimental identities and this could have been such a member. There are also some rare circumstances where CIC officers have been employed in other areas of the CF and that could also be the reason why...


That isn't how Division and Brigade patches work. You wear the patches of the formation(s) you are on strength with, not those of the home formation(s) of the unit whose accoutrements you wear belongs to. 

So, if a PPCLI officer was posted to serve with the Black Watch as one of their RFC (Regular Force Cadre), they would switch their patches to 2nd Canadian Division and 34 Canadian Brigade Group, not retain the 3rd Canadian Division and 1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group patches.  Similarly, if that same officer had been posted to the RCSU, they would should not wear any Division or Brigade patches, although they SHOULD be wearing the VCDS patch in CADPAT and the VCDS Command Badge on their DEU as the VCDS is the level 1 formation and has an authorized patch and badge.  Which also means that if you are a CIC officer who has the appropriate velcro patches, you should also be wearing the VCDS patch in CADPAT.

Obviously some common sense prevails, if someone is on Temporary Duty there isn't any switching of patches...at least on DEU. You will see that when pers deploy on international operations that they wear the Operation patches and not their home formations though.


----------



## sapperboysen (20 Feb 2020)

garb811 said:
			
		

> That isn't how Division and Brigade patches work. You wear the patches of the formation(s) you are on strength with, not those of the home formation(s) of the unit whose accoutrements you wear belongs to.
> 
> So, if a PPCLI officer was posted to serve with the Black Watch as one of their RFC (Regular Force Cadre), they would switch their patches to 2nd Canadian Division and 34 Canadian Brigade Group, not retain the 3rd Canadian Division and 1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group patches.  Similarly, if that same officer had been posted to the RCSU, they would should not wear any Division or Brigade patches, although they SHOULD be wearing the VCDS patch in CADPAT and the VCDS Command Badge on their DEU as the VCDS is the level 1 formation and has an authorized patch and badge.  Which also means that if you are a CIC officer who has the appropriate velcro patches, you should also be wearing the VCDS patch in CADPAT.
> 
> Obviously some common sense prevails, if someone is on Temporary Duty there isn't any switching of patches...at least on DEU. You will see that when pers deploy on international operations that they wear the Operation patches and not their home formations though.



True, but it has been my experience that the DEU patches tend not to get taken off when these staff members get posted, hence why the above commenter might have seen them in the wild. 
We have been directed to not wear the VCDS patches in combats. Our formation is working on the patches right now, so it's nothing until we get direction. We already have the Command badge for DEU's (supply stock willing).


----------



## LittleBlackDevil (26 May 2020)

It appears that there is now a command badge out for CIC ... I was watching the virtual ACR for 75 Barrhaven and BGen Cochrane gave a speech. He was wearing the command patch on his uniform and even gestured to it and mentioned "the new badge which I'm sure you have all seen online".

I frankly haven't seen it or been able to find it. CANEX doesn't sell it (yet). Anyone know anything more about this?


----------



## Burrows (26 May 2020)

LittleBlackDevil said:
			
		

> It appears that there is now a command badge out for CIC ... I was watching the virtual ACR for 75 Barrhaven and BGen Cochrane gave a speech. He was wearing the command patch on his uniform and even gestured to it and mentioned "the new badge which I'm sure you have all seen online".
> 
> I frankly haven't seen it or been able to find it. CANEX doesn't sell it (yet). Anyone know anything more about this?



My understanding is that it is currently being reviewed before anything is formalized.  I would expect that we will see more movement on this once we have returned to a regular state of operations.

For CIC officers:

L1: VCDS
L2: CJCR Sp Gp (Formation)
L3: RCSU


----------



## RocketRichard (26 May 2020)

LittleBlackDevil said:
			
		

> It appears that there is now a command badge out for CIC ... I was watching the virtual ACR for 75 Barrhaven and BGen Cochrane gave a speech. He was wearing the command patch on his uniform and even gestured to it and mentioned "the new badge which I'm sure you have all seen online".
> 
> I frankly haven't seen it or been able to find it. CANEX doesn't sell it (yet). Anyone know anything more about this?


Just get CIC cadet uniforms to wear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LittleBlackDevil (28 May 2020)

RomeoJuliet said:
			
		

> Just get CIC cadet uniforms to wear.



What are CIC cadet uniforms?

Don't CIC have to wear what they are issued? With the only addition being approved formation badges, name plates, or rank slip-ons if those haven't been issued yet but can be purchased from CANEX?


----------



## Burrows (28 May 2020)

CIC Officers, as CAF members, are issued and expected to wear the appropriate CAF uniform.


----------



## LittleBlackDevil (29 May 2020)

Kyle Burrows said:
			
		

> CIC Officers, as CAF members, are issued and expected to wear the appropriate CAF uniform.



That's what I understood ... hence my confusion at RomeoJuliet's post.


----------

