# Military to help young offenders



## Pieman (26 Oct 2004)

I thought this was a very neat idea. IMHO I noticed that a lot of the troubled kids I knew growing up would turn over a new leaf when they found something they identified with, i.e. they joined a football team, identified with the crowd, and changed their lifestyle. etc.  Something like this program could be the right medicine for those 'tough' cases.  

If this kind of program works, and does really turn kids around, then maybe it is something that could be implemented in Canada...not sure how the CF would feel about running a program like that. A new branch for the Cadets maybe?  :-\

Military to help young offenders
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3955605.stm


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## dutchie (26 Oct 2004)

Sounds great to me, as long as these little buggers don't get into the actual military. We don't need more 'troubled young soldiers'.


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## dano (26 Oct 2004)

On occasion my Corp gets guys that have court orders to be here. As well, I'm sure parents force their kids to come before the Court has too...
Our CO has explained that we do get them. To turn them around.
It still comes down to the individual, if they're a danger we can't kick them out, we must inform the court, or who ever, and they deal with him. In most cases, House arrest (if not already) jail time. 
Now to the point, perhaps a new branch of Cadets can be created for them but have stricter rules, punishment and what not. 
Cadets turned me around, but I was accepting.

These guys won't be so accepting... so then you would get in to the Mental aspect, and have extra counseling for them, monitoring and whatnot while in the program.


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## bossi (26 Oct 2004)

Ages ago, when the only way to read was from hardcopy ...
I read a story about a letter from an American senator to an old friend, the Commandant of the USMC, asking for his help in getting a young fellow into the Marines ... in spite of a little brush with the law ...

The exchange of letters was touching, when the Commandant replied to the effect that he knew of two young men who had been in trouble with the law once ... but now one of them was a senator, and the other was Commandant of the USMC.

Closer to home, once we had a private recruit on course - can't remember the exact reason why they went to check up on his home address, but it turned out to be the John Howard Society across the street - this guy was struggling against impossible odds to turn his life around ...
After that, the instructors went out of their way to make sure he made it (and, he did).


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## NavyGrunt (26 Oct 2004)

My grandfather and my dad were told by the court that they had a choice- institution time/criminal records or military service.....they both joined the CF and changed their lives around. I believe its an awesome program when the person wants it to work....


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## pbi (27 Oct 2004)

I think the Army can definitely fill a gap in a young person's life: it did for me. The need for structure, guidance, sense of belonging and pride are strong : better they are fulfilled by military service than by some other "gang". As several posters have identified, it is about personal motivation.

However, having said that, I am against turning the Army into an extension of Corrections Canada: we have enough troubles already, anmd in most cases the criminal is already a dysfunctional, anti-social individual that we do not need in our ranks. Cheers.


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## Pieman (27 Oct 2004)

> However, having said that, I am against turning the Army into an extension of Corrections Canada: we have enough troubles already, anmd in most cases the criminal is already a dysfunctional, anti-social individual that we do not need in our ranks. Cheers.



I can certainly see your point. The program outlined the in article above has a short durration course for kids between the ages of 8-17. They say it is run like an outdoors adventures program rather than a long durration boot camp for hard teens.  So maybe that is enough of a disassociation from corrections Canada?

Beyond the short course they are not forced into the system at all, rather if they came into the army, it would be under their own free will and choice. So maybe that means the ones who decide to join are the ones who would turn out to be good soldiers? Who knows.


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## Love793 (2 Jan 2005)

There is a valid argument to bringing "criminals", "misguided youth" etc.. into the folds of the CF.  In every unit I've worked with there are stories of pers (usually Sr NCOs) that where "directed" to the Army by the courts.  Jail or Army.  In a lot of cases these guys went onto great careers in the armed forces.  Unfortunately with a lot of these guys this happened in the late 60s and early 70s, when we as a society had different values.  A lot of the time it was for petty things, and the courts looked at it as "Boys will be boys."

Society has changed in the last 30 yrs, and criminals are performing more violent crimes that obviously have more lasting effects.  The average restrictions put on probation orders from the courts would prohibit most people from employed usefully in the CF.  Example Restriction one- No Weapons or Firearms.  Restriction Two- No Alcohol (not that anyone in the CF drinks) Restriction Three- No leaving the country.

True a regimented system (not to be confused with regimental system) would generally help stabilise people, however as it was stated earlier, we are not corrections Canada.  I had a interested applicant come in to my office about a month ago, who was interested in joining the Army to make something of himself and give something back to the country.  A noble reason I would believe.  While talking with him and his father it was disclosed to me that he was just convicted of Theft over and Assault.  Unfortunately for him he did it 3 days after turning 18.  He was tried and convicted as an adult.  He was a man about it and fessed up to it and ended up getting adult re-diversion on the theft over and probation on the assault.  A fair break I would say.  Unfortunately for him again I had to explain to him that he would have to wait for the conditions of his probation to be met, gain a parden and wait for specific period of time, before he could apply. I felt sorry for him, because he seemed like a generally good kid who just did a stupid thing.  But in todays world, with all the problems there are can we trust that person with the defence of the nation?


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## mo-litia (2 Jan 2005)

Pieman said:
			
		

> If this kind of program works, and does really turn kids around, then maybe it is something that could be implemented in Canada...not sure how the CF would feel about running a program like that. A new branch for the Cadets maybe?   :-\



I'm not certain about this, but I seem to recall an incident or two from when I was younger where kids were ordered (?) to join cadets or other civic organizations as a condition of their sentence / parole . . . 

Anyone else hear about this?


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## the 48th regulator (2 Jan 2005)

Damn Skippy it helps,

I grew up in the Jane and Woolner area of Toronto.   IF it wasn't for a very good friend of mine, a Piper might I add, I would have ended up in jail or worse!

I grew up watching him play in a band that had a number, the 48, in it's title.   
when a recruiting drive came to our school many years later (I had the longish hair, dug the track suit and thought myself the gang banger, but remember this was in the mid eighties mind you), I asked him if he knew what the guys at the table were about.   That evening he brought me down to Moss Park Armouries, and well the rest is history...

I don't think we have too much of our own problems that we can't find the time to deal with these kids.   Some hard discipline is what they need... then again I may as well stop as I have touched on too many threads and previously talked about topics.

Dileas

tess
p.s thanks Fraser!


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