# Obama achieves historic U.S. presidential victory



## Nfld Sapper (5 Nov 2008)

Obama achieves historic U.S. presidential victory
270 electoral college votes needed to capture White House
Last Updated: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 | 11:04 PM ET CBC News 
Democratic candidate Barack Obama made history on election night Tuesday with a victory over Republican rival John McCain to become the nation's first black president.

Several U.S. media outlets projected Obama captured at least the required minimum of 270 electoral votes, including those in the coveted states of Pennsylvania and Ohio, which has backed the victorious presidential candidate since 1964 and no Republican president has been elected to office without winning the state.

Obama also exceeded expectations with a projected win in Virginia, the former bedrock of the Confederacy and a state that hasn't backed a Democratic presidential candidate in 40 years.

An Obama victory was also being projected in Iowa and New Mexico, which were won by President George W. Bush in 2004.

Meanwhile, McCain was the projected winner of 135 electoral votes in southern states his campaign expected to capture, including Georgia, Texas, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina, as well as in traditionally Republican states in the west, such as Utah and Wyoming.

But the defeat early in the evening in Pennsylvania narrowed the chances of victory for the Republican hopeful, who had poured significant resources into the state and made several campaign appearances there in recent months.

The Democratic candidate also added New York, Michigan, Minnesota, Rhode Island and Wisconsin to his earlier projected victories in traditionally Democratic states, including New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Illinois, the state he has represented in the Senate since 2006.

In Florida, Obama was leading early and performing better in reporting polls than Democratic hopeful John Kerry did four years ago, but it was too early to predict a winner in the state that ultimately elected Bush over Al Gore in 2000.

The last polls close in Alaska at 1 a.m. ET Wednesday, but the majority of states are expected to be decided between 10 p.m. and midnight ET.

States are apportioned electoral votes according to the size of their population, and in most cases the winner of a state's popular vote gets all its electoral votes.

McCain tells reporters: 'We had a great ride'

Earlier in the day before polls closed, McCain remained undeterred by polls suggesting Obama was poised to win, vowing on the flight to his home state of Arizona that momentum was on his side to stage an upset victory.

"I'm feeling good, feeling confident about the way things have turned out," McCain told reporters and photographers who travelled the country with him during the presidential contest.

Alongside his wife, Cindy, McCain reminisced about the lengthy journey over the past 22 months of campaigning.

"We've had a great ride, a great experience full of memories that we will always treasure," he said.

A victory for McCain would also be historic — his running mate, Alaskan Gov. Sarah Palin, would become the first female vice-president. McCain, at 72, would also become the oldest president ever elected to a first term.

A Reuters/Zogby poll released Tuesday had Obama expanding his national lead to 11 points over McCain. But other polls suggest the race is tighter.

Meanwhile, an Associated Press exit poll of more than 10,000 voters conducted in 300 precincts nationally suggested the majority of those casting their ballots were most worried about the nation's economy.

Six in 10 voters picked it as the most important issue facing the nation, while none of the four other issues listed by exit pollsters — energy, Iraq, terrorism and health care — was picked by more than one in 10 people, according to the poll's preliminary results.

Obama was the first of the presidential candidates to get out to the polls.

The 47-year-old Illinois senator cast his ballot after arriving at his voting precinct in Chicago shortly after 7:30 a.m. local time, accompanied by his wife, Michelle, and their two young daughters.

"I voted," Obama said, holding up the validation slip.

McCain voted in Phoenix at a church near his home later Tuesday morning. The Arizona senator cast his ballot after arriving with his wife.

'We've had a great ride, a great experience full of memories that we will always treasure.'

—John McCain, Republican presidential candidateThe longtime senator and Vietnam veteran signed a poster and gave a thumbs-up sign before leaving for a rally in Grand Junction, Colo.

Palin, Biden vote in home states
At least 130 million Americans were expected to cast ballots to elect the 44th president of the United States. 

Both candidates were on the campaign trail until the bitter end, with Obama made a campaign stop in Indiana before heading back to Chicago.

In addition to the Colorado rally, McCain held another event in New Mexico before heading to his home state for an election night party in Phoenix.

Palin, meanwhile, voted early Tuesday in her home town of Wasilla, Alaska, accompanied by her husband, Todd Palin.

"Tomorrow, I hope, I pray, I believe that I'll be able to wake up as vice-president elect and be able to get to work," she said.

Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden voted in Wilmington, Del., with his wife, Jill Biden, and his 91-year-old mother.

After giving reporters a thumbs-up sign, Biden turned to his mother and joked, "Don't tell them who you voted for."

Bush: 'May God bless whoever wins tonight'
As they wound down their campaigns on Monday, the candidates stuck to familiar themes in their addresses to supporters.

Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden waves after after voting with his wife Jill, far left, and mother Jean, centre, on Tuesday in Wilmington, Del. (Rob Carr/Associated Press)Obama warned that a vote for McCain would continue the failed policies of the administration of Bush, who is slated to leave office after eight years with near-record low approval ratings as America faces one of the largest financial crises since the Great Depression.

"When it comes to the economy, the truth is that John McCain has stood with President Bush every step of the way," he told his supporters at a rally in Virginia on Monday night.

But McCain — who has portrayed himself during the lengthy campaign as a maverick candidate of change despite Republicans being the incumbent party in the White House — countered that Obama's policies are far left of the political views of the majority of Americans.

"He's in the far left lane of American politics and he's stuck there," McCain said Monday in Blountville, Tenn.

Bush, whose record as president was under fire for much of the campaign, was conspicuously absent on Tuesday, making no public appearances.

The president cast an absentee ballot several days ago and was spending election night in the White House residence at a dinner with his wife Laura and several friends, according to a spokeswoman.

White House press secretary Dana Perino said Bush ended his dinner toast this way: "And may God bless whoever wins tonight."


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## slowmode (5 Nov 2008)

A Man of change , and a real leader. This moment right now is history and I will remember it for the rest of my life. 

Congratulations President Obama! You will do an outstanding job leading The United States and the World!!


Sure I wanted Ron Paul but I'm more than happy with Obama!


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## Bane (5 Nov 2008)

I hear he will be handing out loaves and fish tomorrow.  ;D

I'm very glad Obama won, however, the honeymoon will be short and the number of challenges enormous. What an extraordinary process the U.S. has just been through.  


Ron Paul is crazy yet awesome!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Nov 2008)

Tough road ahead for him though..........


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## Nfld Sapper (5 Nov 2008)

McCain concedes as Obama wins in a landslide  
Updated Tue. Nov. 4 2008 11:23 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff


Voters have elected Barack Obama the first African-American president of the United States, ending eight years of Republican rule that saw a deeply unpopular war in Iraq and growing economic turmoil. 



Shortly after 11 p.m. ET, John McCain phoned Obama to concede the election.



Obama's victory is an incredible watershed moment for the country, and the ultimate success of the civil rights movement of the 1960s, when Martin Luther King Jr. dreamed of a future when whites and blacks could live as equals. 



"We have come to the end of a long journey. The American people have spoken and they have spoken clearly," McCain told supporters in Arizona in his concession speech. "Senator Obama has achieved a great thing for himself and his country." 



McCain spoke gratuitously of the importance of Obama's win to African-Americans and the U.S. He also offered his sympathy to Obama for the passing of his grandmother just hours before Election Day. 

"In a contest as long and difficult as this campaign has been, his success alone commands my respect for his ability and perseverance. But that he managed to do so by inspiring the hopes of so many millions of Americans, who had once wrongly believed they had little at stake, or little influence in the election of an American president, is something I deeply admire and commend him for achieving," McCain said. 




To win the presidency, a candidate must get 270 votes from the Electoral College, which are awarded for winning the popular vote in a state. A candidate could potentially win the popular vote nationwide, but not win enough votes from the Electoral College, like Al Gore did in 2000. 



Current results: 





Obama - 333 


McCain - 139 


After Obama, a 47-year-old first-term senator from Illinois, won the Democratic nomination, he found himself squaring off against John McCain, 72, a veteran lawmaker and war hero who spent five-and-a-half years as a military prisoner in Vietnam. 



McCain struggled to separate himself from the current Republican government of George W. Bush, whose approval ratings have plummeted to roughly 25 per cent. 



McCain sold himself as a "maverick," frequently using the word in speeches and interviews, and said he would break from the Bush administration and shake up Washington. He also said he was the best candidate to tackle tough foreign policy issues, especially Iraq and the so-called "war on terror." 



Obama ran on a campaign of hope and change, saying Americans were fed up with Bush's failed economic policies, a seemingly never-ending war in Iraq and an eroding of civil liberties. He said McCain would essentially bring another four years of the same. 



On Tuesday, Obama took an early lead and before 10 p.m. ET he had won the key battleground state of Ohio, which no Republican has ever lost in modern times and still managed to secure the White House. 



He later won the Republican states of Indiana and Florida, which no Democrat had managed to secure since Lyndon Johnson in 1964. 



Obama also won 21 electoral votes in Pennsylvania, where McCain had focused much of his efforts in the final days of his campaign. 



Democrats win Senate majority 



Democrats have picked up several senate seats from the Republicans, including a win over Sen. Elizabeth Dole in North Carolina. In a controversial attack ad, she had suggested her rival, who teaches Sunday school, was an atheist. 



In other senate races: 





Former governor Mark Warner won a seat for the Democrats in Virginia, a traditional Republican stronghold 


Democrat Jeanne Shaheen won in New Hampshire, formerly held by the Republicans 


Democrat Thomas Udall is expected to win a seat from the Republicans in New Mexico 


The Democrats are trying to win 60 seats, which would give them a filibuster-proof Senate majority. But analysts have said that's a long shot.



Who is leading in which states:





Georgia - 15 - McCain 


Indiana - 11 


Kentucky - 8 - McCain 


South Carolina - 8 - McCain 


Vermont - 3 - Obama 


West Virginia - 5 - McCain 


Virginia - 13 - Obama 


North Carolina - 15 


Ohio - 20 - Obama 


Connecticut - 7 - Obama 


Delaware - 3 - Obama 


Maine - 4 - Obama 3, McCain 1 


Maryland - 10 - Obama 


Massachusetts - 12- Obama   


New Jersey - 15 - Obama 


Tennessee - 11 - McCain 


Oklahoma - 7 - McCain 


Arkansas - 6 - McCain 


Alabama - 9 - McCain 


Florida - 27 - Obama 


Illinois - 21 - Obama 


Mississippi - 6 - McCain 


Missouri - 11 


New Hampshire - 4 - Obama 


Pennsylvania - 21 - Obama 


District of Columbia - 3 - Obama 


South Dakota - 3 


Arizona - 10 


Colorado - 9 - McCain 


Rhode Island - 4 - Obama 


Louisiana - 9 - McCain 


Michigan - 17 - Obama 


Wyoming - 3 - McCain 


Minnesota - 10 - Obama 


New Mexico - 5 - Obama 


North Dakota - 3 - McCain 


New York - 31 - Obama 


Texas - 34 - McCain 


Wisconsin - 10 - Obama 


Kansas - 6 - McCain 


Nebraska - 5 


Iowa - 7 - Obama 


Utah - 5 - McCain 


Oregon - 7 - Obama 


California - 55 - Obama 


Idaho - 4 


Hawaii - 3 - Obama 


Montana - 3 


Alaska - 4 


Nevada - 5 


Washington - 11 - Obama


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Nov 2008)

slowmode said:
			
		

> A Man of change , and a real leader. This moment right now is history and I will remember it for the rest of my life.
> 
> Congratulations President Obama! You will do an outstanding job leading The United States and the World!!
> 
> ...



Unfortunately for you, I believe he is already married.


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## 1feral1 (5 Nov 2008)

As much as I would rather support a Republican government, the people have spoke, and made their choice. Here is whats in the Regina Leader Post has to say ......  

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/index.html 

Regardsless of who sits in the Oval Office, it will be a rough ride.

I do not agree many/most, if not all of his intended policies, and he has no experience in the calibre of this leadership, plus his arrorgance is a shocker IMHO. I guess time will tell. Just because he is well groomed and can talk well does not make him a good leader. I find him rather plastic (the likes of Barbie's Ken in appearance) to be honest.

With McCain, with age comes wisdom with life experience, and he is a veteran too, with all those years in the Hanoi Hilton, beaten and tortured. He knows life on the edge, sacrifice, and the decision of troops going into harms way he can identify with, then there is BHO, who wants to negociate with terrorists.

Good luck Yanks, you'll need it.



OWDU


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## GDawg (5 Nov 2008)

I was a McCain supporter at first, but the Republicans sure tend to run a greasy campaign and he probably picked one of the worst VP candidates imaginable. The fact that McCain is so old meant that Palin would probably find herself serving in the capacity of President for a portion, if not the remainder of his term if he were to become seriously ill or die in office.

The Democrats will control the House, the Senate, and the White house. America will have a fresh and positive rapport with the free world, I am certain when he finally moves into the White house he will be able to do good things.


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## CougarKing (5 Nov 2008)

slowmode said:
			
		

> A Man of change , and a real leader. This moment right now is history and I will remember it for the rest of my life.
> 
> Congratulations President Obama! You will do an outstanding job leading The United States and the World!!



Ditto. My sentiments exactly Slowmode!



Let's pray he doesn't screw it up!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Nov 2008)

GDawg said:
			
		

> I was a McCain supporter at first, but the Republicans sure tend to run a greasy campaign and he probably picked one of the worst VP candidates imaginable. The fact that McCain is so old meant that Palin would probably find herself serving in the capacity of President for a portion, if not the remainder of his term if he were to become seriously ill or die in office.
> 
> The Democrats will control the House, the Senate, and the White house. America will have a fresh and positive rapport with the free world, I am certain when he finally moves into the White house he will be able to do good things.



I too was a McCain supporter until they picked Ms. Palin. The one thing I really hated this election was the more than usual targeting of certain voter groups and it was obvious why she was picked above lots of more qualified people.


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## Kat Stevens (5 Nov 2008)

If I believed in skullduggery in politics,  I'd think the Reps knew they were backing a loser, and Palin was chosen as the sacrificial lamb.  Gotta blame the loss on someone, might as well be the VP candidate.


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## Nfld Sapper (5 Nov 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> If I believed in skullduggery in politics,  I'd think the Reps knew they were backing a loser, and Palin was chosen as the sacrificial lamb.  Gotta blame the loss on someone, might as well be the VP candidate.



Interesting point of view there Kat, during his speach Mcain blames himself for the lose but then again you might be right.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Nov 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> If I believed in skullduggery in politics,  I'd think the Reps knew they were backing a loser, and Palin was chosen as the sacrificial lamb.  Gotta blame the loss on someone, might as well be the VP candidate.



I'm not normally a conspiracy theory guy but if I had to believe one...............


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## grmpz1 (5 Nov 2008)

im no expert but i think george bush dealt the republican candidate a bad hand since his presidency was not so good


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## Bass ackwards (5 Nov 2008)

OWDU pretty much said it for me.

Good luck, America.


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## slowmode (5 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Unfortunately for you, I believe he is already married.



Oh well, cant get all the fish in the sea eh?  

EDIT: I just watched his speech, simply amazing. This is history and its something I could not miss. The next 4 or possibly 8 years will be very interesting.


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Nov 2008)

I can't help be think of that news report I saw on the folks who were apparantly going to make an attempt on his life.  No doubt the Secret Service folks will all pucker up alittle.

Congratulations to President-elect Obama.

Now, there are only about 3 months of post-election analysis to get thru on television.   ;D


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## Kat Stevens (5 Nov 2008)

Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times".


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## Nfld Sapper (5 Nov 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I can't help be think of that news report I saw on the folks who were apparantly going to make an attempt on his life.  No doubt the Secret Service folks will all pucker up alittle.
> 
> Congratulations to President-elect Obama.
> 
> Now, there are only about 3 months of post-election analysis to get thru on television.   ;D




True there EITS, sad part *if* an attempt is made on him more than likely it will be from within (read within the USA) rather that from outside (some other part of the world)


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## 1feral1 (5 Nov 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Interesting point of view there Kat, during his speach Mcain blames himself for the lose but then again you might be right.



McCain's campaign was never really strong, and he always was on the defensive and attack with BHO. Palin to me appearred to be a Sat night gullable tart (look whta the Monteal radio station managed to complete), who's grammar and english language was that unbecoming of the position she was chosen for. Obama said you can put lipstick on a pig ( a come back to her hockey mom/pitbull comment), and its still a pig. I did laugh when I heard that. 

Who's to blame for the demise of the Republicans in 2008, well the finger can be pointed in any direction. As for me, I'll wait for the dust to settle before really commenting on that.

Regards,

OWDU


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## Loachman (5 Nov 2008)

Please excuse me while I do not celebrate.

"Real leader"? Empty suit. Style over substance.

This is not a good thing.


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## KJK (5 Nov 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Please excuse me while I do not celebrate.
> 
> "Real leader"? Empty suit. Style over substance.
> 
> This is not a good thing.


Loachman, you are exactly right. The USA has elected their own PET, let`s hope Obama doesn`t do as much damage as he did.

God help the USA.

God help Canada especially on trade matters.

God help the Secret Service, they will need it.

KJK


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## stealthylizard (5 Nov 2008)

Congratulations Obama.  Good luck in the next 4 years.


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## CougarKing (5 Nov 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Please excuse me while I do not celebrate.
> 
> "Real leader"? Empty suit. Style over substance.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



Well time to move on. McCain did say he would help Obama lead. No matter who is in charge, we all have to hope for the best. 



> Obama becomes first black president in landslide
> 
> *McCain pledges to help Obama lead.. *
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/election.president/index.html


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## Loachman (5 Nov 2008)

KJK said:
			
		

> The USA has elected their own PET



That or Jack Layton.


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## Spanky (5 Nov 2008)

Obama and the dems have a very strong mandate.  The repercussions will be huge should they not be able to deliver, and they won't be able to blame anyone but themselves if they fail.  NAFTA could be an issue for us.


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## GAP (5 Nov 2008)

> Please excuse me while I do not celebrate.
> 
> "Real leader"? Empty suit. Style over substance.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



He has not had an opportunity to show any substance as of yet. Style.....if he can generate enthusiasm and excitement among the people at a time when the economy is going south, good for him, I hope it works.  JFK, Trudeau are two other leaders I have lived through that, while they did not have initial substance, had the style and generated the "idea of the possible"....maybe Obama will be one also, only time will tell

The election of a black man to the white house is going to have profound effects everywhere. There is going to be all kinds of messages coming out of that......most good for the USA.

Congratulations to Obama, may he do well


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2008)

Good luck Mr. President - no matter who won, big issues ahead.

Already, pro-Sunni bloggers that like sharing the latest from A-Q and the Taliban have this to say - interesting references to PAK (highlights mine)....


> With the elections over, President Obama will now add some flavor to the Global Crusade against Islam. The promises he makes - as any politician would do - are meaningless to the Mu’mineen because a Crusader leader will remain a Crusader leader. People are swept off of their feet for Obama for 4 major reasons:
> 
> 1. His looks.
> 2. His extremely eloquent style of speaking and free-styling of his speeches.
> ...



1 - Non-Muslim, non-believer, infidel


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## a_majoor (5 Nov 2008)

Edward Campbell has a more sobering and realistic look at the challenges that face Canada now that we must deal with an Obama administration. You will note there isn't a whole lot to cheer about here:


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## Shec (5 Nov 2008)

I can't help but question Obama's moral fibre.  For 20 years he was a member of a religious congregation whose leader preached anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.  Did Obama challenge it?  Did he leave in protest and affiliate himself with another congregation?  No.  This is telling.   

What was it Edmund Burke wrote:  "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"?  What did Obama do?  Nothing... until it became a campaign issue. And then and only then, when his fortunes were at stake,  did he decry but not denounce the hateful dogma spewed by his radical cleric. 

He is undoubtedly a brilliant mind and a golden orator. But does he have the political courage to lead and deliver as promised?


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## Marshall (5 Nov 2008)

No offense to McCain (I am sure he would have made a good president also) but I am glad Obama won, and I'm glad to live during this event 

But as others have said, the Americans may be still facing a time of trouble with their government.. Obama may be young (fairly) and hip and all that.. but he is fairly inexperienced with this sort of thing..

Good luck to him though, all the best.


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## Hawk (5 Nov 2008)

When I worked for a polling firm some time ago, we did a lot of US political polling - some featuring Obama. He was popular then, long before the presidential race, so I'm not overly surprised. We did, however hear lots of nasty and  prejudicial comments. I hope he can live through his term in office, and hope he turns out to be a good and strong president.

Best wishes, President Obama.


Hawk


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## tomahawk6 (5 Nov 2008)

I have seen this movie before,but I wish President-elect Obama well.


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## dr.davies (5 Nov 2008)

Not only is it monumental and historic result, but he also has the opportunity to leave a historic legacy other than just his race.  He is the President-Elect coming into office in a Country which is almost assuredly into recession, books riddles with red ink, and 2 wars.  That is quite the plate to begin serving with.

Resolving any of these problems will help prove himself as a strong leader, however his shine will fade very quickly if jobs keep disapearing at the current rate.


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## Nfld Sapper (5 Nov 2008)

Presidential results history in the making  
It's U.S. President Barack Obama

WASHINGTON
LEE-ANNE GOODMAN 
The Canadian Press

Barack Obama was swept to the White House on Tuesday by enraptured Americans who embraced his message of hope and turned their backs on centuries of racial division by electing their first black president.
The Illinois senator, born to a white mother and an African father 47 years ago, was elected in a momentous day that many black Americans believed they would never see.
It came some 232 years after the country was founded on the principle that all men were created equal.
“What we are witnessing in America is a non-violent revolution,” Congressman John Lewis, an iconic figure of the civil rights movement, said Tuesday night as the results rolling in suggested the Obama juggernaut was unstoppable.
“It is a revolution of values. It is a revolution of ideas.”
News of Obama’s win prompted jubilant celebrations across the United States as millions of weeping and exhilarated Americans took to the streets.
It seemed less an election and more a coronation for a man who inspired people from every walk of life with his consistent message of hope, change and promise, and his pledge to end the divisive politics of President George W. Bush.
In Obama’s hometown of Chicago, hundreds of thousands of people gathered in a city park to celebrate their native son’s entry into the history books on an unseasonably warm night.
Thousands of cheering people also assembled in New York’s Times Square in a scene more reminiscent of New Year’s Eve than election night.
John McCain, the Republican nominee, also promised change and attempted repeatedly to distance himself from Bush, but it was a message that apparently fell on deaf ears.
“We have come to the end of a long journey — the American people have spoken and they have spoken clearly,” McCain said in a gracious concession speech in Phoenix.
Upon mention of Obama’s name, the crowd booed, but McCain hushed them, referring to his rival for the White House as a “good man.”
“His success alone commands my respect for his ability and perserverence,” he said. “This is a historic election and I recognize the special significance this has for African-Americans and for the special pride that must be theirs tonight.”
It was considered a watershed moment in American history.
The U.S. economy is in a shambles. America’s prestige abroad has been battered. Victory in two wars in far-flung Iraq and Afghanistan remains elusive.
Obama’s popularity among voters reflected the fervent desire of millions of Americans to chart a new course for a country that many believe has lost its way in the past eight years.
He continued to climb in the polls throughout the campaign. Some suggest the widespread acceptance of him as a viable presidential candidate represents the passing of a torch to a new generation, one that’s racially diverse, accepting of minorities, socially progressive and weary of old-style politics.
Obama was adored by major blocs of voters, including young Americans between the ages of 18 and 30 who favoured him almost 3-1 over McCain, and African-Americans, millions of whom registered to vote for the first time in order to cast their ballots for him.
Women and Hispanic voters also flocked to him.
At a Washington, D.C., subway station on Tuesday, one black man stood in tears on the platform as he spoke of how he’d voted earlier that day.
“I never thought I’d see this day,” Sam Richardson, 65, said as he wiped tears from his face. “I just would never have believed it could happen in my lifetime.”
McCain, a moderate Republican distrusted by his party’s social conservatives, won the party’s nomination on the promise of a new direction for the United States.
The Vietnam war hero represented a repudiation of those very socially conservative ideals that had been the bedrock of his party for decades. He effectively ran his campaign against the Republicans.
Nonetheless, polls had suggested for weeks that Obama was poised to become the first African-American to be elected president.
Election day was the culmination of almost two years of politicking by McCain and Obama, who both fought tough battles during the primary season to win their respective party’s nominations.
Their showdown against one another was bare-knuckled, but the economic crisis benefited Obama, who dealt with it with assured calm, compared to McCain’s erratic responses to the financial meltdown.
McCain also faced relentless criticism for his choice of the much-maligned Sarah Palin as his running mate. After causing a brief bump in the polls for the Arizona senator soon after he chose her, the self-styled hockey mom and social conservative was a consistent drag on the Republican ticket.
Many Americans, including lifelong and prominent Republicans, said they could not vote for McCain because of Palin and would cast their ballots for Obama instead.
Palin was emotional during McCain’s concession speech, her eyes welling with tears on occasion.


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## tomahawk6 (5 Nov 2008)

I dont buy that Palin was a drag on the ticket. McCain was a flawed candidate and was lucky to do as well as he did considering the historical factors that he faced.After 8 years of control by one party the electorate tends to give the out party a chance to do better. The economy wasnt a serious issue until the credit/mortgage markets collapsed. Palin energized the base and positioned herself nicely for a run in 2012. The one lesson that the GOP has to understand is that politicians that run as conservatives win and those who are moderates/liberals lose. Michigan and Illinois rank last in the nation for economic growth.Both are run by democrat 2 term governors and yet the voters keep electing democrats.It makes me wonder how brain dead the democrat voyer must be.This is evident in the NE and west coast as well.All have poor economies all love liberal democrats. The problem is places like North Carolina are being flooded with refugee's from the blue states and yet what do they do ? They vote for liberal democrats.


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## Redeye (5 Nov 2008)

Some pundit I was listening to last night was talking about how at the end of the day this was an election that both parties probably wanted the other guys to win.  Steering the US out of the mire it is in now will be a difficult job, and Obama's first term will be completely judged by it.  It's not going to be an easy job at all, but overall I think he's up to the job, and where he lacks he seems adept in seeking and accepting advice.  I didn't really see McCain as having any really big, dynamic plans or vision, and that's what Obama did that really captured a lot of votes.  As for Palin, well, that was the nail in the GOP coffin I'm reasonably sure.

At the end of the day would McCain's experience in the Hanoi Hilton make him a better president really?  Obama has in a relatively short life done a lot of things - he came basically from nothing, it's sort of a great American Dream-ish story.  That too I think sparked a lot of people.  As for sending troops into harm's way - he plans to make sure the US gets out of Iraq in a responsible way, and wants to commit more forces to Afghanistan.  He also talked about being a little more firm with Pakistan which is crucial.

As for "negotiating with terrorists", I presume you are referring to his plan to open diplomatic channels with countries like Iran without preconditions.  I view that as a positive thing - bringing those sorts of countries into more normalized diplomatic relations is the best hope of ever getting them to stop being a problem.  Isolating them hasn't done anything positive.





			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> As much as I would rather support a Republican government, the people have spoke, and made their choice. Here is whats in the Regina Leader Post has to say ......
> 
> http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/index.html
> 
> ...


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## Retired AF Guy (5 Nov 2008)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times".



Another Chinese curse: _"Be careful what you wish for."_ 

All those people who are wetting their pants about Obama winning may come to regret it. He has connections to some shady people to say the least (e.g. Ayers, Wright, ACORN, etc).  They have been several alleged cases of ARCORN being involved in voter fraud. It will be interesting to see how that turns out. Also worrying is how the Democrats went after anybody who criticized Obama (e.g) The Democrats using official government resources to get dirt on Joe the Plumber. Something to keep in mind. 

I haven't seen the results from the Senate elections, so I don't know if the Democrats gained control or not. If so, then they will pretty much have absolute powerand pus any measure through (e.g nomination of members to the Supreme Court). That, coupled with an adoring public, a co-opted media/ intelligentsia  does not bode well for the future. As much as some of us may despise the media, they do have a function in keeping government honest by exposing abuses/coverups. Watergate, the My Lia Massacre being examples of cover ups exposed by the media. However, with Obama, the media is so enthralled by him that they ignored anything that might tarnish his shining white armour. Again, not a good situation.

It will also be interesting to see how many of his promises he implements (e.g.) taxing the so-called "rich people" and reinstitution of the Fairness Doctrine  as championed by Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats. These could be (will be!) very divisive. How the Democrats handle the current economic situation will also be interesting. 

As for those who think Obama's election will improve the U.S.' international standing; don't hold your breath. Things may be pretty rosy at first, but that will wear off quickly. Especially, if, as believed, Obama starts asking our NATO allies to start ponying up more troops for Afghanistan. Then you'll see a change in opinion!

Now I could be wrong, its happened before. And I hope I'm wrong. Maybe Obama will be one of the great president's, but my initial feelings say otherwise.

I'll leave you with another quotation, courtesy of *John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton*; _ “And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”_


----------



## Nfld Sapper (5 Nov 2008)

Off topic by for Retired AF Guy.


Democrats hold control of Senate, House
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 | 9:19 AM ET CBC News 

On the same night their leader was elected president, the Democrats won enough seats to maintain control of the U.S. Senate, although it seemed doubtful they would garner a filibuster-proof 60 seats.

Barack Obama handily defeated his rival John McCain to be elected the first black president of the United States.

With 32 of 35 Senate races called Tuesday night, Democrats were guaranteed at least a 54-41 advantage, including two holdover independents who vote with Democrats. The majority was declared following several key Democratic wins in Republican strongholds such as North Carolina, New Hampshire, Virginia and New Mexico.

But three states were still too close to call: Alaska, Georgia and Oregon.

With 99 per cent of the precincts reporting, controversial Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska was slightly leading his Democratic opponent Mark Begich, the mayor of Anchorage. Stevens, 84, the U.S. Senate's longest-serving Republican, was convicted last month on several felony charges.

The charges stemmed from claims that he received free home renovations and other gifts worth more than $250,000 US from his friend and millionaire oil contractor, VECO Corp. chief executive Bill Allen.

In another high profile race, Republican incumbent Norm Coleman narrowly beat Democrat Al Franken, the former Saturday Night Live writer and actor, in Minnesota.

Earlier, State Senator Kay Hagan unseated Republican incumbent Elizabeth Dole in the race in North Carolina, where the seat had been held by a Republican for 35 years. 

Hagan's victory followed a similar Democratic grab in Virginia, where former state governor Mark Warner was in competition to replace a retiring five-term Republican senator. Warner was up against another former governor, Republican Jim Gilmore.

New Hampshire also changed from red to blue after the first woman elected governor there, Jeanne Shaheen, beat Republican incumbent John Sununu. In New Mexico, Democrat Tom Udall won the seat that had been held by Republican Pete Domenici.

Going into Tuesday's election, the Democrats held a 51-49 majority in the Senate, but their edge was maintained only by the support of two independents who have voted with Democrats the past two years.

One of them, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, campaigned on behalf of McCain in the 2008 election.

Obama's running mate Joe Biden won another six-year term representing Delaware in the Senate, however, both his and Obama's Senate seats will now be filled by appointees chosen by the governors of Delaware and Illinois.

Economic woes, compounded by widespread distaste for the administration of current U.S. President George W. Bush, could help the Democrats in their drive to dominate Congress and add to the six Senate seats they gained in 2006.

Voters reportedly packed the polls to vote for 35 Senate seats being elected Tuesday night. Of the 35 races on Tuesday's ballot, 23 were held by Republicans, 12 by Democrats.

Leaders in both parties, however, have admitted that a 60-40 Democratic majority that would prevent Republican senators from blocking bills and judicial nominees is unlikely.

Democrats were also expected to gain about 20 more House of Representatives seats to give them a strong majority Tuesday night.

"It's the night we have been waiting for," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

"This will be a wave upon a wave."

Democrats controlled the House of Representatives by a 235-199 margin, with one vacancy, before the election. In 2006, they won 30 seats and control of Congress in a surge powered by voter anger over the Iraq war.

With fewer than a dozen races still undecided, Democrats had made gains, winning at least 251 seats. The Republicans had won 173 seats.

With files from the Associated Press


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## Redeye (5 Nov 2008)

The same can be said of John McCain - or most poltiicians for that matter - they're supposed to be all about style - policy formation, decision making, etc, are the domain of the backroomers, and it's the mandarins that really run most countries anyhow.



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> Please excuse me while I do not celebrate.
> 
> "Real leader"? Empty suit. Style over substance.
> 
> This is not a good thing.


----------



## Redeye (5 Nov 2008)

Shec said:
			
		

> I can't help but question Obama's moral fibre.  For 20 years he was a member of a religious congregation whose leader preached anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.  Did Obama challenge it?  Did he leave in protest and affiliate himself with another congregation?  No.  This is telling.



Actually, he repeatedly publicly rebuked Jeremiah Wright when that whole mess came up a few months ago.


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## Mike Baker (5 Nov 2008)

Intresting times ahead indeed.


Good luck Pres. Obama, methinks you will need it.


-Beaver


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## Drag (5 Nov 2008)

Congratulations to President-Elect Obama.  I hope the GOP learns a lesson from this and goes back to the "big tent" approach.  McCain could have won with a different campaign and a different running mate.  I would have supported a McCain-Lieberman ticket.  Running to the religious right and basing his campaign on people voting against Obama instead of voting for him doomed him.  A message of bringing the electorate hope beats constantly repeating "Ayers""Abortion""Joe the Plumber" and Elisabeth Dole's boneheaded "godless" adds.


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## rmc_wannabe (5 Nov 2008)

All the best President Obama. You're in for some fun, putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.


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## Loachman (5 Nov 2008)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Actually, he repeatedly publicly rebuked Jeremiah Wright when that whole mess came up a few months ago.



Of course.

He was forced to, for political reasons.

My "good luck" wishes are for the American people. They'll be needing it.


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## Shec (5 Nov 2008)

My point exactly Loachman.  He distanced himself from Wright when exposed to public scrutiny -  to save his neck.  What did he do about it over the preceding 20 years of listening to Wright?


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## 2 Cdo (5 Nov 2008)

Canadians getting excited over a protectionist, all style-no substance sort of fellow should not be surprised if trade barriers start appearing and Canadian jobs start disappearing. With control of the Senate and the House I don't look forward to the next four years under an inexperienced "Ken"  doll.

One other thing. Everyone is making a huge deal over his "blackness" but ignoring the fact that he is half white. :


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## 2 Cdo (5 Nov 2008)

On further thinking, I am personally not too worried about Obamas promises. I truly believe he will be like most politicians who promise the world and then deliver on next to nothing.


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## Snafu-Bar (5 Nov 2008)

He will only be as effective as the senate allows him to be. Thier focus looks to be shifting to thier economy over everything else so i expect a lean 4 years of regrouping and looking after jobs. That means we will have to do the same for the next four years to keep in stride with them.

 Cheers.


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## Loachman (5 Nov 2008)

I predict that further damage will be done to the US economy.

Liberals and Democrats are never good for economies.

We're still paying for Trudeau.


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## GAP (5 Nov 2008)

Already Pelosi is calling for an economic stimulus package for just about everybody.........


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## AlphaQup (5 Nov 2008)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Another Chinese curse: _"Be careful what you wish for."_
> 
> All those people who are wetting their pants about Obama winning may come to regret it. He has connections to some shady people to say the least (e.g. Ayers, Wright, ACORN, etc).


McCain had ties to ACORN as well, Obama served on a board with Ayers(as did other republicans) and accepted the help from Pastor John Hagee. To believe only one of the candidates had made poor decisions is flawed. They both seem like honourable men.


			
				2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Canadians getting excited over a protectionist, all style-no substance sort of fellow should not be surprised if trade barriers start appearing and Canadian jobs start disappearing. With control of the Senate and the House I don't look forward to the next four years under an inexperienced "Ken"  doll.
> 
> One other thing. Everyone is making a huge deal over his "blackness" but ignoring the fact that he is half white. :


From what the analysts are saying, Obama's protectionist attitude is not something you should fear. He wouldn't be stupid enough to start trade barriers and redefine NAFTA. As for his 'blackness', in America if you look like Obama you're black. Don't blame that on him, I suggest you review Jim Crow laws during segregation. 

I also thought it was pathetic that he was being attacked for being a 'secret muslim'. It's good to know American's didn't buy into those fear tactics which led them to their current situation on the war on terror.


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## Jimmy67 (6 Nov 2008)

Forgive me for not joining in the love-fest :...

I find so many things disturbing about this individual that I lose count. 

1.  Obama has been less than forthcoming about what he REALLY has in mind for America. All we have heard are vague generalities about "change" which have been swallowed hook, line, and sinker... He has had a far left leaning (to say the least) voting record as a senator; will he govern from the centre, or be tempted to attempt to pull the country to a more socialist, nanny state orientation, as Pelosi and the other extremist Democrats want? I have a feeling that the Democrat stranglehold on the levers of power, now completed by Obama's victory, will merely encourage these extremists...

2.  Are we in for Jimmy Carter part 2? If he is perceived as weak by our enemies, will they be emboldened to step up their attacks on the West? Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea must be rejoicing as I speak...

3.  The media never asked the tough questions of this man that would normally be asked of a Presidential candidate; about his beliefs, his associations, his background, and his policy ideas. Obama got a free pass from them; in fact the bias in the campaign was blatant. Meanwhile every move McCain and Palin made was scrutinized, critisized, and pounded unmercifully. Why? Perhaps they hope his "Fairness Doctrine" will eliminate the competition from the "new media", and the public will simply go back to sleep?

4.  The thuggish behaviour of his supporters and campaign workers. Think "Joe the Plumber", youth indoctrination, voter booth intimidation, and Code Pink... The attacks on Sarah Palin's family were particularly disgusting... Meanwhile, no one questioned any of this, for fear of the race card being pulled...

5.  A great deal of foreign money was funneled into the Obama campaign through back (and illegal) channels. What foreign interests wanted Obama to win so badly, and why? Why was none of this reported on, or investigated? 

Anyway, you get the idea. I am certainly not an uncritical McCain supporter, but I don't believe Obama or his campaign pass the smell test, regardless of the hype...


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## CougarKing (6 Nov 2008)

In the meantime, some people who can't move on have started an "Impeach Obama" group on Facebook:


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081105214913.k5rna1c2&show_article=1



> On Facebook, an "Impeach Barack Obama" group has attracted more than 700 members and a lively debate about the Democrat's election victory on Tuesday over Republican John McCain.
> 
> Another Facebook group of the same name has 160 members and urges others to join because "we might as well get a head start on the impeachment of Obama."


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## tomahawk6 (6 Nov 2008)

Moving on is a big theme for you what you dont realize is that people are moving on toward 2010. 
The lines are being drawn for an epic battle between conservatives and whatever Obama's policies evolve. The democrats can accomplish anything legislatively they want. If they enact unpopular laws there will be a backlash and shift back toward the republicans. I dont expect Obama will be moderate in his policies its not what he is about. In his acceptance speech he said that people would be expected to sacrifice.What people will sacrifice is not yet clear.Moveon.org gave Obama $88m and will expect to have a seat at Obama's table,they arent anything close to moderate.Obama's new chief of staff Rahm Emanuel is a leftist and has a reputation for being a tough guy.They have 72 days until they take over and it will seem like the campaign never ended.


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## tomahawk6 (6 Nov 2008)

Obama's new web site - a first I believe.

http://change.gov/


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## Bass ackwards (6 Nov 2008)

T-6, did you see the part on there where he plans to force people into doing community service ?
I'd love to see how he's going to enforce that.

http://change.gov/americaserves/


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## Kirkhill (7 Nov 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Moving on is a big theme for you what you dont realize is that people are moving on toward 2010.



Here's Cheers T6.

CougarDaddy: the difference between Obama's Unity Win and Bush's Division Win is a swing of approximately 3% of the population.  America is still not of one mind.  Thank God (or naming the deity of your choice).  The only thing that will Move On is the continuing discussion.


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## Infanteer (7 Nov 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The democrats can accomplish anything legislatively they want. If they enact unpopular laws there will be a backlash and shift back toward the republicans. I dont expect Obama will be moderate in his policies its not what he is about.



Thank goodness - democracy still works then.  All the chicken littles seem to think the end is near; as Brad Sallows said somewhere around here, if we are to be responsible democratic citizens, we must accept that a group other than the one we think is right will win.  All the hypocricy I saw coming from the left when Bush was elected is now being demonstrated by the right (not you T6, just a general observation) - politics as usual I guess.


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## CougarKing (7 Nov 2008)

Bass ackwards said:
			
		

> T-6, did you see the part on there where he plans to force people into doing community service ?
> I'd love to see how he's going to enforce that.
> 
> http://change.gov/americaserves/



To be fair, it does sound kind of like imposing or dictating when it comes to requiring middle and high school kids to do community service, especially when the common perception is that only those delinquents who have done something wrong do community service, although there are volunteers who indeed do it of their own accord. 

Still, perhaps they should have make an exception for kids already involved in some school activity such as student government or school sports/intramurals or other activities like high school JROTC or Civil Air Patrol.  

I think his reasoning behind this is more to get intercity kids off the streets and back to school and off drugs and prevent them from getting involved in gangs and other ills of society at that age.


----------



## Lune (7 Nov 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> To be fair, it does sound kind of like imposing or dictating when it comes to requiring middle and high school kids to do community service, especially when the common perception is that only those delinquents who have done something wrong do community service, although there are volunteers who indeed do it of their own accord.
> 
> Still, perhaps they should have make an exception for kids already involved in some school activity such as student government or school sports/intramurals or other activities like high school JROTC or Civil Air Patrol.
> 
> I think his reasoning behind this is more to get intercity kids off the streets and back to school and off drugs and prevent them from getting involved in gangs and other ills of society at that age.



You do know that in Ontario high school students are required to have 40 hours of community service before they can graduate, right?


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## CougarKing (7 Nov 2008)

Lune said:
			
		

> You do know that in Ontario high school students are required to have 40 hours of community service before they can graduate, right?



No I didn't. I live in BC, though I attended part of my high school years in California, where you also have to do 40 hours as well, IIRC.


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## rw4th (7 Nov 2008)

I think the selection of Palin as VP was a major cause of the Republican loss. The “base” she supposedly appealed to would vote Republican no matter what so I think that argument falls flat. She costs the Republicans the election by ostracizing the growing number of moderate voters who value both Conservative fiscal policies and Liberal social policies. In my opinion this group examined her far right conservative social and religious beliefs and decided not to vote Republican knowing that there was a very good chance she could be the one in charge at some point. This is what I am convinced was responsible for swinging several traditionally red states towards a narrow Democrat victory.


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## GAP (7 Nov 2008)

Palin energized the Republican ticket, all this finger pointing isn't going to change the fact that Obama ran a better campaign, especially when McCain had to overcome G W Bush.....


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## Edward Campbell (7 Nov 2008)

rw4th said:
			
		

> I think the selection of Palin as VP was a major cause of the Republican loss. The “base” she supposedly appealed to would vote Republican no matter what so I think that argument falls flat. She costs the Republicans the election by ostracizing the growing number of moderate voters who value both Conservative fiscal policies and Liberal social policies. In my opinion this group examined her far right conservative social and religious beliefs and decided not to vote Republican knowing that there was a very good chance she could be the one in charge at some point. This is what I am convinced was responsible for swinging several traditionally red states towards a narrow Democrat victory.



David Jones agrees with you in this opinion piece reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s _Ottawa Citizen_:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=216fc310-5a41-4246-8c99-a9d3a0c771d4


> Lessons for Republicans
> 
> David Jones, Citizen Special
> 
> ...



While I agree that the Republican base was not gong to vote Democrat it was, I believe quite prepared to sit on its hands and let McCain lose big time because he is, most surely, not ‘one of them.’ Palin _energized_ them and brought them and their money into the campaign. I think she deserves some credit for keeping the popular vote margin as low as it was.


----------



## Old Sweat (7 Nov 2008)

Edward,

I think you are correct here. There had been a litany of calls during the primary season for Republicans to sit this one out. Some went so far as to claim that a financial catastrophe was nigh and the best approach was to let the Democrats wear it. Many still turned out to vote for the GOP ticket, and perhaps Governor Palin's presence saved the day for the Senate split.


----------



## muskrat89 (7 Nov 2008)

Maybe it's because I'm in Goldwater country but again, my conversations indicate that most people I talk to are dissatisfied because the Republicans have lost their conservative ways. God and guns? I dunno. But seriously, I am talking about _my_ specific, varied circle of acquaintances in my life:relatives, friends, co-workers, customers, vendors, etc. I would say 75% or more say the same types of things. They were very uncomfortable with McCain, until Palin was chosen; they yearn for a Reagan-esque return to values. These are not Limbaugh-zombie Bible-thumpers, these are "regular people"...

Anyway, lest some of you think I am drunk on the Palin Kool-Aid, I did enjoy Krauthammer's take on it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110602570.html?sub=AR



> The Campaign Autopsy
> 
> By Charles Krauthammer
> Friday, November 7, 2008; Page A19
> ...


----------



## tomahawk6 (8 Nov 2008)

I do agree Muskrat that republicans want a return to traditional values - conservative values.McCain represented the moderate/lib side of the house and it clearly failed.The base didnt trust McCain and really didnt like McCain bashing the GOP as if he werent part of it.McCain might have won if he opposed the bailout and stood up for the voters - sort of a populist approach. He didnt and lost. You dont beat liberal democrats by being one of them. Lately you cant tell the difference between the democrats and republicans. The first step to regaining power will be who wins the title of Chairman RNC.Newt has thrown his hat in the ring and could help provide the leadership needed. Unfortunately Newt has drunk the global warming coolaid which is a non-starter.


----------



## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I do agree Muskrat that republicans want a return to traditional values - conservative values.McCain represented the moderate/lib side of the house and it clearly failed.The base didnt trust McCain and really didnt like McCain bashing the GOP as if he werent part of it.McCain might have won if he opposed the bailout and stood up for the voters - sort of a populist approach. He didnt and lost. You dont beat liberal democrats by being one of them. Lately you cant tell the difference between the democrats and republicans. The first step to regaining power will be who wins the title of Chairman RNC.Newt has thrown his hat in the ring and could help provide the leadership needed. Unfortunately Newt has drunk the global warming coolaid which is a non-starter.




And see this report that shows that tomahawk6 is not alone in his views.


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## Kirkhill (8 Nov 2008)

This report from The Gateway Pundit is really interesting.

It shows clearly the Urban/Rural split in the US with the Dems clearly being the Urban Choice and the Republicans being the Rural Choice.







Also interesting is this factoid:



> Turnout-- As of Saturday at 1 PM CST approximately 124,200,000 Americans voted in this election.
> In 2004, 122.3 million voted.
> So, although there are still votes being counted(?), this year saw only a slightly larger turnout.
> 
> ...



Despite all the talk about the Democrat ground game and getting out the young, black and hispanic votes the overall turnout (to date) is only slightly ahead of the 2004 vote.  The real story seems to be the republicans that didn't vote for McCain (sat on their hands?).


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## tomahawk6 (8 Nov 2008)

Yep I think there was an 86% republican turnout for McCain. Obama changed his web site to make community service optional not mandatory.


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## Kirkhill (8 Nov 2008)

There's a bit of good news.

Maybe this character'll turn out to be a President like any other.....


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## tomahawk6 (8 Nov 2008)

The House is seriously looking at confiscating all 401k/IRA's which is illegal and will be the end of this new administration.Not to mention the impact taking $2 trillion out of the stock market and draining corporations of capital and the effect on the economy.

http://www.carolinajournal.com/articles/display_story.html?id=5081

Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs

By Karen McMahan
November 04, 2008

RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.

Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly.

The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.

Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Education and Labor, in prepared remarks for the hearing on “The Impact of the Financial Crisis on Workers’ Retirement Security,” blamed Wall Street for the financial crisis and said his committee will “strengthen and protect Americans’ 401(k)s, pensions, and other retirement plans” and the “Democratic Congress will continue to conduct this much-needed oversight on behalf of the American people.”

Currently, 401(k) plans allow Americans to invest pretax money and their employers match up to a defined percentage, which not only increases workers’ retirement savings but also reduces their annual income tax. The balances are fully inheritable, subject to income tax, meaning workers pass on their wealth to their heirs, unlike Social Security. Even when they leave an employer and go to one that doesn’t offer a 401(k) or pension, workers can transfer their balances to a qualified IRA.

Mandating Equality

Ghilarducci’s plan first appeared in a paper for the Economic Policy Institute: Agenda for Shared Prosperity on Nov. 20, 2007, in which she said GRAs will rescue the flawed American retirement income system (www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204/bp204.pdf).

The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.”

Lauding GRAs as a way to effectively increase retirement savings, Ghilarducci wrote that savings incentives are unequal for rich and poor families because tax deferrals “provide a much larger ‘carrot’ to wealthy families than to middle-class families — and none whatsoever for families too poor to owe taxes.”

GRAs would guarantee a fixed 3 percent annual rate of return, although later in her article Ghilarducci explained that participants would not “earn a 3% real return in perpetuity.” In place of tax breaks workers now receive for contributions and thus a lower tax rate, workers would receive $600 annually from the government, inflation-adjusted. For low-income workers whose annual contributions are less than $600, the government would deposit whatever amount it would take to equal the minimum $600 for all participants.

In a radio interview with Kirby Wilbur in Seattle on Oct. 27, 2008, Ghilarducci explained that her proposal doesn’t eliminate the tax breaks, rather, “I’m just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for 401(k)s and spreading — spreading the wealth.”

All workers would have 5 percent of their annual pay deducted from their paychecks and deposited to the GRA. They would still be paying Social Security and Medicare taxes, as would the employers. The GRA contribution would be shared equally by the worker and the employee. Employers no longer would be able to write off their contributions. Any capital gains would be taxable year-on-year.

Analysts point to another disturbing part of the plan. With a GRA, workers could bequeath only half of their account balances to their heirs, unlike full balances from existing 401(k) and IRA accounts. For workers who die after retiring, they could bequeath just their own contributions plus the interest but minus any benefits received and minus the employer contributions.

Another justification for Ghilarducci’s plan is to eliminate investment risk. In her testimony, Ghilarducci said, “humans often lack the foresight, discipline, and investing skills required to sustain a savings plan.” She cited the 2004 HSBC global survey on the Future of Retirement, in which she claimed that “a third of Americans wanted the government to force them to save more for retirement.”

What the survey actually reported was that 33 percent of Americans wanted the government to “enforce additional private savings,” a vastly different meaning than mandatory government-run savings. Of the four potential sources of retirement support, which were government, employer, family, and self, the majority of Americans said “self” was the most important contributor, followed by “government.” When broken out by family income, low-income U.S. households said the “government” was the most important retirement support, whereas high-income families ranked “government” last and “self” first (www.hsbc.com/retirement).

On Oct. 22, The Wall Street Journal reported that the Argentinean government had seized all private pension and retirement accounts to fund government programs and to address a ballooning deficit. Fearing an economic collapse, foreign investors quickly pulled out, forcing the Argentinean stock market to shut down several times. More than 10 years ago, nationalization of private savings sent Argentina’s economy into a long-term downward spiral.

Income and Wealth Redistribution

The majority of witness testimony during recent hearings before the House Committee on Education and Labor showed that congressional Democrats intend to address income and wealth inequality through redistribution.

On July 31, 2008, Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, testified before the subcommittee on workforce protections that “from the standpoint of equal treatment of people with different incomes, there is a fundamental flaw” in tax code incentives because they are “provided in the form of deductions, exemptions, and exclusions rather than in the form of refundable tax credits.”

Even people who don’t pay taxes should get money from the government, paid for by higher-income Americans, he said. “There is no obvious reason why lower-income taxpayers or people who do not file income taxes should get smaller incentives (or no tax incentives at all),” Greenstein said.

“Moving to refundable tax credits for promoting socially worthwhile activities would be an important step toward enhancing progressivity in the tax code in a way that would improve economic efficiency and performance at the same time,” Greenstein said, and “reducing barriers to labor organizing, preserving the real value of the minimum wage, and the other workforce security concerns . . . would contribute to an economy with less glaring and sharply widening inequality.”

When asked whether committee members seriously were considering Ghilarducci’s proposal for GSAs, Aaron Albright, press secretary for the Committee on Education and Labor, said Miller and other members were listening to all ideas.

Miller’s biggest priority has been on legislation aimed at greater transparency in 401(k)s and other retirement plan administration, specifically regarding fees, Albright said, and he sent a link to a Fox News interview of Miller on Oct. 24, 2008, to show that the congressman had not made a decision.

After repeated questions asked by Neil Cavuto of Fox News, Miller said he would not be in favor of “killing the 401(k)” or of “killing the tax advantages for 401(k)s.”

Arguing against liberal prescriptions, William Beach, director of the Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation, testified on Oct. 24 that the “roots of the current crisis are firmly planted in public policy mistakes” by the Federal Reserve and Congress. He cautioned Congress against raising taxes, increasing burdensome regulations, or withdrawing from international product or capital markets. “Congress can ill afford to repeat the awesome errors of its predecessor in the early days of the Great Depression,” Beach said.

Instead, Beach said, Congress could best address the financial crisis by making the tax reductions of 2001 and 2003 permanent, stopping dependence on demand-side stimulus, lowering the corporate profits tax, and reducing or eliminating taxes on capital gains and dividends.

Testifying before the same committee in early October, Jerry Bramlett, president and CEO of BenefitStreet, Inc., an independent 401(k) plan administrator, said one of the best ways to ensure retirement security would be to have the U.S. Department of Labor develop educational materials for workers so they could make better investment decisions, not exchange equity investments in retirement accounts for Treasury bills, as proposed in the GSAs.

Should Sen. Barack Obama win the presidency, congressional Democrats might have stronger support for their “spreading the wealth” agenda. On Oct. 27, the American Thinker posted a video of an interview with Obama on public radio station WBEZ-FM from 2001.

In the interview, Obama said, “The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society.” The Constitution says only what “the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you,” and Obama added that the Warren Court wasn’t that radical.

Although in 2001 Obama said he was not “optimistic about bringing major redistributive change through the courts,” as president, he would likely have the opportunity to appoint one or more Supreme Court justices.

“The real tragedy of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused that I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change,” Obama said.

Karen McMahan is a contributing editor of Carolina Journal.


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## a_majoor (8 Nov 2008)

Sadly, antics like this will taint the election and cause people to question the legitimacy of the President elect's mandate (although, by the rules enforced by the MSM and left wing  bloggers since 2000, 53% of the popular vote "isn't a mandate"). Election reform to make registration transparent, correctly identify voters and properly tabulate results is needed.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/11/022028.php



> *WHAT'S HAPPENING IN MINNESOTA? PART 2*
> Share Post   PrintNovember 8, 2008 Posted by Scott at 8:41 AM
> 
> Yesterday John Hinderaker explored "What's going on in Minnesota?" with the late arriving-votes that have reduced Norm Coleman's lead over Al Franken from 726 votes with 100 percent of precincts reporting on Wednesday morning to 221 votes as of this morning.
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (8 Nov 2008)

The Republican governor could step in and insure the counties are playing fair but so far he hasnt done squat.


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## tyrone120 (9 Nov 2008)

Congatulations Mr president elect, You did what was thought to be impossible. Good luck with the job ahead of you.


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## a_majoor (10 Nov 2008)

Peter Hitchens has a different view:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084111/PETER-HITCHENS-The-night-waved-goodbye-America--best-hope-Earth.html#



> *The night we waved goodbye to America... our last best hope on Earth*
> Last updated at 5:57 PM on 10th November 2008
> 
> Anyone would think we had just elected a hip, skinny and youthful replacement for God, with a plan to modernise Heaven and Hell – or that at the very least John Lennon had come back from the dead.
> ...


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## brave little soldier (10 Nov 2008)

:-*

The American Elections were far more interesting than our federal and Quebec's provincial elections... My vote goes to Obama... Oups... can't vote for him ???  :-\

Go go Obama ! Go go Obama !


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## Loachman (10 Nov 2008)

Yes, and the sooner he goes, the better off everybody will be, except for those that leech off of governments.


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## Kirkhill (10 Nov 2008)

Just finished talking to a buddy in the States.  Apparently Obama is as good for business as Bill Clinton was.  At least in one economic sector.

My buddy just decided now was the time to go out and buy the M1911 that he had been thinking about.  Before that 500% excise tax kicks in and the $500 item becomes a $3000 item.  The customers were lined up 12 deep at the counter.

By the way, buddy has also postponed his retirement.....


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