# Now I know but do you?



## justawife (8 Oct 2006)

Long story short I made the decision to apply for the reserves this summer while my husband was in Afghan. I had wanted to join before but with our family situation it wasn't right until now. Anyways I apply and started the interviews. I passed apptitude testing and could go any trade, passed interviews, medical one and then boom medical two I am told because I am allergic to bee's I can not move forward. I was shocked and then pissed. I filled out allergies THE FIRST FORM 2 MONTHS  before the interviews!!!! It wasn't a secert I didn't hide it. Does no one read applications or do they just put numbers through? So now I wait and try new treatment to get rid of my allergy to bee's. I wish I would have known first instead of wasting my time applying I would have sought treatment first then applied. I wanted to join so bad I could taste it. Now I will seek treatment and then try again. I am not angry about the "rule" I am upset that NO ONE knew about it accept the medical staff.


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## derael (8 Oct 2006)

Yes, you're right. The recruiting staff should know absolutely every in and out for the medical requirements to join the Canadian Forces.  :


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## Petard (8 Oct 2006)

I'm no expert on the process, but it does seem to me someone missed something, it also might be the Medical people are getting it wrong, but I'm not sure which.
The reason I'm saying this is because many people don't discover they're allergic to something until after they join, do we heave them out? No. So I'm kind of suspicious of the "no go gauge" here because of someone having an allergy, especially one to stinging insects.
I discovered sometime ago (1983) that I was allergic to hornets while in the field, it was quite nasty, the way it was dealt with then was you were given a sting kit that had to be carried everywhere, it was not a factor in my deployability up until 4 years ago. It was at that stage I was put on a temp category while I began the de-sensitising treatment for my allergy, 6 months after that the prognosis was good and I came off the temp category, and as of last year I no longer require the maintenance treatment, although I still keep an epi-pen available, just in case. Accroding to my last DAG (Feb 06) I'm deployable.
The upshot of what I'm saying is someone might be making an assumption here in your processing, ask, push it, find out for sure where it states that you can't join because you have an allergy to stinging insects, to me, it sounds bogus. If nothing else you'll make people pay closer attention to what they're doing. Hopefully one of the medical folks on this forum can pick up on this.
Good luck.


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## George Wallace (8 Oct 2006)

Perhaps it is time for some to do some Research into allergies; how they come about, how long they typically last, do they disappear with time, how sever can they get, does age affect them, etc.?


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## justawife (8 Oct 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Perhaps it is time for some to do some Research into allergies; how they come about, how long they typically last, do they disappear with time, how sever can they get, does age affect them, etc.?


had the allergy since I was 12. The more times you are stung the deadlier the allergy. Age doesn't matter our son has same allergy since he was 2. Only know of this "new" treatment and there is hope. Glad to hear someone has had treatment and it worked. 
 The personal at the front desk at CF recruiting didn't even know this "rule" existed and they are the first to greet Jane/John Doe public who are looking at joining CF and give them information.
I plan on seeking treatment and trying again (although they are keeping my file open) It was a stumbling block is all and if anyone else can avoid the same thing then all the better.


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## Cansky (8 Oct 2006)

It is all dependent on the degree of allergy.  If you are true anaphlaxis reaction (throat swells, can't breath eventually death) to the allergin then yes you won't get in the military.  Or if already in then have to under go allergy testing and then desensitization if available.  If not or not willing to take you can be medically released.  Do I agree? no.  But these are the rules.  Every allergy is different and some you won't know about.  I know of personel who have eaten shellfish all their lives and suddenly are anaphlaxis reaction.  Every case is different.  So "Just a Wife"  how bad is your reaction.
Kirsten


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## kincanucks (8 Oct 2006)

justawife said:
			
		

> had the allergy since I was 12. The more times you are stung the deadlier the allergy. Age doesn't matter our son has same allergy since he was 2. Only know of this "new" treatment and there is hope. Glad to hear someone has had treatment and it worked.
> The personal at the front desk at CF recruiting didn't even know this "rule" existed and they are the first to greet Jane/John Doe public who are looking at joining CF and give them information.
> I plan on seeking treatment and trying again (although they are keeping my file open) It was a stumbling block is all and if anyone else can avoid the same thing then all the better.



Quit your whining.  The front desk staff aren't suppose to deal with or answer questions regarding medical issues that is why there are medical personnel working at CFRC/Ds.  The job of the front desk staff is to give job information not information on the latest allergy treatment.

HH


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## justawife (8 Oct 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Quit your whining.  The front desk staff aren't suppose to deal with or answer questions regarding medical issues that is why there are medical personnel working at CFRC/Ds.  The job of the front desk staff is to give job information not information on the latest allergy treatment.
> 
> HH



quit my whining OMG how about you learn to read properly Sir. Who is asking front desk about allergy treatment what I was stating is the recruiting personnel who work at the front desk and provide information to  ppl who are interested in joining should be aware of what MEDICAL issues will automatically disqualify you from joining the military. Is it not the job of CF recruiters to know such issues?


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## George Wallace (8 Oct 2006)

justawife said:
			
		

> quit my whining OMG how about you learn to read properly Sir. Who is asking front desk about allergy treatment what I was stating is the recruiting personnel who work at the front desk and provide information to  ppl who are interested in joining should be aware of what MEDICAL issues will automatically disqualify you from joining the military. Is it not the job of CF recruiters to know such issues?



Sorry justawife but you are RTFOTL on that call.  Let me ask you if you would know the 1,000,000 and one items that qualify or disqualify a person from the CF?  Who do you think would know all of these?  Perhaps your husband?  Get real!


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## Michael OLeary (8 Oct 2006)

justawife said:
			
		

> Long story short I made the decision to apply for the reserves this summer while my husband was in Afghan. I had wanted to join before but with our family situation it wasn't right until now. Anyways I apply and started the interviews. I passed apptitude testing and could go any trade, passed interviews, medical one and then boom medical two I am told because I am allergic to bee's I can not move forward. I was shocked and then pissed. I filled out allergies THE FIRST FORM 2 MONTHS  before the interviews!!!! It wasn't a secert I didn't hide it. Does no one read applications or do they just put numbers through? So now I wait and try new treatment to get rid of my allergy to bee's. I wish I would have known first instead of wasting my time applying I would have sought treatment first then applied. I wanted to join so bad I could taste it. Now I will seek treatment and then try again. I am not angry about the "rule" I am upset that NO ONE knew about it accept the medical staff.





			
				justawife said:
			
		

> quit my whining OMG how about you learn to read properly Sir. Who is asking front desk about allergy treatment what I was stating is the recruiting personnel who work at the front desk and provide information to  ppl who are interested in joining should be aware of what MEDICAL issues will automatically disqualify you from joining the military. Is it not the job of CF recruiters to know such issues?



Yes, the people at "the front desk" could state that some people with allergies do not get recruited.  But .... and this is the real point .... they CANNOT assess your condition, they CANNOT predict the outcome of your medical referral, and they CANNOT tell you not to bother applying BECAUSE they ARE NOT the medical professionals. Now, please, ask yourself this, what would your first post have read like if the person "at the front desk" had heard from you that you have some allergies and then just told you not to bother applying?  I have no doubt you'd be here demanding to know why you didn't get the full medical assessment, and what right or expertise they had to do that.  You had the full service, which gave your case full consideration.  Now, what else were you expecting?


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## pronto (8 Oct 2006)

justawife said:
			
		

> quit my whining OMG how about you learn to read properly Sir. Who is asking front desk about allergy treatment what I was stating is the recruiting personnel who work at the front desk and provide information to  ppl who are interested in joining should be aware of what MEDICAL issues will automatically disqualify you from joining the military. Is it not the job of CF recruiters to know such issues?



Of course! all CF recruiters are not just recruiters... They are also board-certified neuro-surgeons. Hence, their ability to know all medical issues, which could potentially affect you. They only have Medical personnnel at CFRC/Ds to provide a back up to the front-desk staff. Why just last month Kincanucks removed my appendix with only a blunt spoon, a tub of yoghourt, a bicycle pump and a ground-sheet. My god, he was magnificent... :

Read his answer again - front desk provide job information... if you answer yes to an allergy question, the medical staff will follow up.


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## justawife (8 Oct 2006)

I was told medical was the hardest part about applying. I asked questions as I had medical issues that if I was wasn't qualified then why apply. It was far more disappointing to learn after all travel and testing and thinking I had covered my bases prior to applying! Nothing is easy and I didn't expect it to be. I want it bad enough and I'll keep plugging away at it and do whatever I have to or am told too. Thanks for the comments negative and positive information is information glad to get it either way! This forum is a good way to learn for a beginner to learn the lesson you're nothing and shut the f*** up!


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## Cloud Cover (8 Oct 2006)

justawife said:
			
		

> Nothing is easy and I didn't expect it to be. I want it bad enough and I'll keep plugging away at it and do whatever I have to or am told too. Thanks for the comments negative and positive information is information glad to get it either way!



This is a good attitude and I commend you for it. I would support what Mr. O'Leary has said. Get the allergy looked into in more detail, paper your file with positve information and perservere.  



> This forum is a good way to learn for a beginner to learn the lesson you're nothing and shut the f*** up!


If you are the spouse or loved one of a person deployed to Afg., right now you are everything and more to them. Spill your beans, some will try and help you.    Keep the faith.


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## justawife (8 Oct 2006)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> This is a good attitude and I commend you for it. I would support what Mr. O'Leary has said. Get the allergy looked into in more detail, paper your file with positve information and perservere.
> If you are the spouse or loved one of a person deployed to Afg., right now you are everything and more to them. Spill your beans, some will try and help you.    Keep the faith.


I am a spouse but husband is now home from Afghan (6 weeks) My husband said the biggest lesson I have to learn if I want to join is "I am nothing and shut the f*** up" I mean no disrespect here and I honestly mean it when I say this forum is good to learn such a lesson from. As a wife I have respect because I have proved myself over the years but if I want respect from other CF members I need to earn it and it is harder to earn that then anything else in this world! I asked for info and the first person to tell me to stop "whining" I jumped wrong move on my part! I am learning slowly!  ;D


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## Petard (9 Oct 2006)

At the risk of opening up the ole can of bait again, here goes
There does seem to me to be a round about valid point to what you're asking. If during a process a question is asked but no action is taken, regardless what the response is, why bother asking that question?
In this particular case there's no way the recruiter can tell if your allergy condition will affect your application or not, this can only be determined by people trained to make the assessment, same as for any other medical condition. Again, why bother asking then at that 1st stage if there's no way of telling what effect it's going to have, leave it to the medical stage of the process to figure out.
It might be possible that the medical assessment was not complete and there may have been alternatives, for example going to an allergist to determine just how severe is it.
There's another thread under recruiting forums that talks quite a bit about allergies and the forces
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12898.0.html
after reading through that it might help you understand why they may have stopped your enrolment. Since its been on this site for about 2 years now it might've saved you some grief had you known about this site before you even applied, lots of good information here, but some bad too, and some is just wasted bandwidth. Don't worry, before too long you'll develop a BS detector too.

In any case don't think soldiers aren't entitled to whine, as the saying goes if they stop whining then something's wrong, either they don't believe their leaders can help or they don't trust them anymore, either way that's not good. Besides how the hell is anybody going to know what works or doesn't unless there's some feedback (bitchin) goin on.


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## rmacqueen (9 Oct 2006)

Your post does show a potential flaw in the recruiting process.  It would be better for all concerned if, when a medical condition is noted on the application, the file was flagged for immediate assessment by the medical people.  It could save both the CF and the applicant a lot of wasted time.  But, on the flip side, if this was for civilian employment and you wanted the job bad enough you would jump through all kinds of hoops just for the slight chance of getting it.  It is easy to complain about the CF but we have to keep in mind that until you are enrolled it is strictly an employer/applicant relationship and nothing more.


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## justawife (9 Oct 2006)

I had two interviews in total one locally and then one in a major city. I asked my questions in the first one thinking I was covering my bases. Turned out to be not case so sh*t happens. The CF pays a couple of hundred for someone like me to travel to the city for the appitude testing, 2nd personal interview, and medical testing. My allergy is severe enough to warrant questions. 
" But, on the flip side, if this was for civilian employment and you wanted the job bad enough you would jump through all kinds of hoops just for the slight chance of getting it." I do want it bad enough and will continue to jump through whatever hoops I need too. I think if anyone wants anything in life bad enough they would do so. As they say "it is not the mountains in your path that stop you it is the rock in your shoe" If I don't make it into the CF it won't be from a lack of trying. 

"There's another thread under recruiting forums that talks quite a bit about allergies and the forces
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12898.0.html
after reading through that it might help you understand why they may have stopped your enrolment. Since its been on this site for about 2 years now it might've saved you some grief had you known about this site before you even applied, lots of good information here" How true that statement is I only wished I had known but I know now and will learn everything that I can here.


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## BulletProof (3 Nov 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry justawife but you are RTFOTL on that call.  Let me ask you if you would know the 1,000,000 and one items that qualify or disqualify a person from the CF?  Who do you think would know all of these?  Perhaps your husband?  Get real!



Yes, HEAVEN FORBID they actually get a book out and study about recruitment when they're posted to the RECRUITING SECTOR!

A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  I even became lazy when I was in.  The reality of it is, in civilian corporations, if you were in recruitment for them you are EXPECTED to know the in's and out's of the entire process and also what can disqualify people.  These people have to work very hard and dilligently to keep their positions.

A posting to the recruitment sector is considered a vacation and they treat it as such.  Members of the CF are untouchable if they're stupid; civilian workers are not.  Believe me there are A LOT of stupid people in the forces too.  So what happens?  They get posted to places like the recruitment section so they can't screw anything up.  This doesn't mean that all people in recruitment are mentally slow, it just means that a lot of the more challenged folk are found there.

It's commonly known.


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## muffin (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  Believe me there are A LOT of stupid people in the forces too.  So what happens?  They get posted to places like the recruitment section so they can't screw anything up.  This doesn't mean that all people in recruitment are mentally slow, it just means that a lot of the more challenged folk are found there.
> 
> It's commonly known.



WOW ... you are asking for trouble here!

First of all - as a "lazy" government employee, who works 7:30-4 and often well into my personal time in the evenings - I personally find this remark insulting. When I am not doing my overtime, I am finishing my degree, and raising 2 young children. At the same time I try to support my husband, a soldier, in whatever it is he is tasked with at the time.... I am sorry that your limited (3 years is it??) experience with the government and military has been so negative -

Your post is not in any way helpful to "justawife" and is trolling for trouble - be careful...


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## armyvern (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> It's commonly known.


What? That you obviously have no idea in He11 what you are talking about? Yes, I'd agree.  :


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## spud (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> Yes, HEAVEN FORBID they actually get a book out and study about recruitment when they're posted to the RECRUITING SECTOR!
> 
> A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  I even became lazy when I was in.
> It's commonly known.



You are so far out of your lane it's impossible to get back in. I'm sure you were exposed to so much in your entire what, three years of service? You didn't become lazy in the service, you were undoubtedly lazy before that. I detest being personal, but you're an idiot. 

Mods, if you need to slap me go ahead. 

potato


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## Hockeycaper (3 Nov 2006)

Spud  +1


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## derael (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  I even became lazy when I was in.



I'm sure members of the CF, past and present, don't appreciate you using your incompetence as a blanket qualifier for a good number of the personnel serving in the CF.

I find it interesting that you're so quick to judge others when you yourself admit that you're lazy. Time to look at yourself before you start pointing the finger at others...wouldn't you agree?


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## George Wallace (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> Yes, HEAVEN FORBID they actually get a book out and study about recruitment when they're posted to the RECRUITING SECTOR!
> 
> A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  I even became lazy when I was in.  The reality of it is, in civilian corporations, if you were in recruitment for them you are EXPECTED to know the in's and out's of the entire process and also what can disqualify people.  These people have to work very hard and dilligently to keep their positions.
> 
> ...



Well it is now commonly known.  Well, at least that you have posted in a fashion that now it is commonly known 'who' you are.

Let me respond to your above post, quoting mine.  You are commenting on the fact that I told justawife that those in the Recruiting Office would have a better idea of whether or not she would be a viable candidate, than the opinions of her husband.  You provided my quote, but not the context.  Then you went on a rant about how stupid and lazy many in the CF are, and many in the CFRC don't know 'jack'.  You just provided us all with an image in our minds as to you are.  I would put it to you that those in the CFRC, even if they haven't read all the material, are still in a better position to have the info than someone who is not involved in any capacity with the Recruiting System.  

Anyway, as to your attitude.......It's commonly known.


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## GUNS (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> Yes, HEAVEN FORBID they actually get a book out and study about recruitment when they're posted to the RECRUITING SECTOR!
> 
> A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  I even became lazy when I was in.  The reality of it is, in civilian corporations, if you were in recruitment for them you are EXPECTED to know the in'sIn's out'outsthe entire process and also what can disqualify people.  These people have to work very hard and dillidiligentlyeep their positions.
> 
> ...



By your comments and the way you present yourself, makes one wonder why you were released from the CF


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## BulletProof (3 Nov 2006)

GUNS said:
			
		

> By your comments and the way you present yourself, makes one wonder why you were released from the CF



I left the forces after 3 years at end of contract.  I was not released.  The issue was I did not feel I was making enough $$$.  There are many reasons to join the forces and granted the money is decent; I lost the heart to do it anymore.  I was working 75-85 hour weeks at sea and 50 alongside.  I was frustrated that it often times averaged less than what I would make in a parallel civilian workplace for less hours.  I was correct.

I have a posting style that is very crass.  I am a straight to the point type of person and I don't sugar coat anything.  Perhaps the Army has much more motivated personnel than the Navy end of things but I speak of personal experience.  As far as my comments about a lot of people in the CF being lazy, this is true.  It's the same as saying a lot of government officials are corrupt.  I'm not pointing a finger at you personally, it is a general statement that based on my own experience and what others often talked about I believe to be true.  Again you could be the most motivated person in the world, it's a generalization.

Generalizations make people angry, sure.  I suggeest you learn to accept them though since it's part of the English language and simply put, how people think and react to circumstance or definable abstracts.  In my experience I met a lot of lazy people.  I was also told many times about how the poor achievers are put into postings that allow for error that cannot cause any real harm.  If you disagree, that's fine but you need to accept and understand the fact that many other CF members feel this way.

Hang me from a tree if you like.  I put my time in and my opinion is worth just as much as yours.


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## BulletProof (3 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> You are so far out of your lane it's impossible to get back in. I'm sure you were exposed to so much in your entire what, three years of service? You didn't become lazy in the service, you were undoubtedly lazy before that. I detest being personal, but you're an idiot.
> 
> Mods, if you need to slap me go ahead.
> 
> potato



Sorry to double post,

I'd seen enough after 3 years.  As far as being out of my lane, there ARE a lot of lazy people in the CF.  Sorry to burst that bubble, but I know many lazy people that I would have loved to give 3 or 4 blanket parties to in my day.  It's the same everywhere you go in society.  All I stated was that they put people like this in positions where they can't harm anyone.  This is TRUE.  It doesn't mean every recruiter's lazy and useless... It simply means that it's a hush hush way of putting a potentially hazardous person into a position where they are happy and can't harm anyone.

If you think this doesn't happen and every member of the CF is a chipper yes man with a coffee for his Captain and copy of army news in their hands every morning then you are the one that I raise an eyebrow at...


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## spud (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> As far as my comments about a lot of people in the CF being lazy, this is true.  It's the same as saying a lot of government officials are corrupt.  I'm not pointing a finger at you personally, it is a general statement that based on my own experience and what others often talked about I believe to be true.
> Generalizations make people angry, sure.  I suggeest you learn to accept them though since it's part of the English language and simply put, how people think and react to circumstance or definable abstracts.  In my experience I met a lot of lazy people.  I was also told many times about how the poor achievers are put into postings that allow for error that cannot cause any real harm.
> 
> Hang me from a tree if you like.  I put my time in and my opinion is worth just as much as yours.



O my, I am not even sure where to begin: a) a lot of government officials are corrupt, b) a lot of people in the CF are lazy and, c) put into postings that allow for error, d) many other CF members feel this way or e) generalizations are part of the English language, and how people think and react to circumstances or definable abstracts. 

I would post a line by line rebuttal of your drivel but it just isn't worth it. However, your post is certainly nothing if entertaining, but  your vision of the English language is certainly different then mine. And yes, your opinion is worth as much as mine. Maybe more. 



			
				BulletProof said:
			
		

> If you disagree, that's fine but you need to accept and understand the fact that many other CF members feel this way.



Way...way...out of your lane here partner. 

I apologize for calling you an idiot earlier;  but somewhere in this great country of ours, there is certainly a village in need or your services. 


potato


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## armyvern (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> I'd seen enough after 3 years.  If you think this doesn't happen and every member of the CF is a chipper yes man with a coffee for his Captain and copy of army news in their hands every morning then you are the one that I raise an eyebrow at...


Whew, what an attitude.

Lots of CF members are lazy and the rest of them are chipper yes men who wait for their Captains with copies of the Army news every morning?

I'm thinking I'm raising my eyebrows at you a$$hat. Were all those hours you worked at sea and in port the result of any "extra-duties" you accumulated (either officially or non-officially) due to your obviously piss-poor attitude? Somehow me thinks so.


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## spud (3 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> Sorry to double post,
> 
> I'd seen enough after 3 years.  As far as being out of my lane, there ARE a lot of lazy people in the CF.  Sorry to burst that bubble, but I know many lazy people that I would have loved to give 3 or 4 blanket parties to in my day.  It's the same everywhere you go in society.  All I stated was that they put people like this in positions where they can't harm anyone.  This is TRUE.  It doesn't mean every recruiter's lazy and useless... It simply means that it's a hush hush way of putting a potentially hazardous person into a position where they are happy and can't harm anyone.
> 
> If you think this doesn't happen and every member of the CF is a chipper yes man with a coffee for his Captain and copy of army news in their hands every morning then you are the one that I raise an eyebrow at...



Cripes, three years in the Navy you would have spent most of your time doing cleaning stations and complaining about somebody wanting to use the head.  You must have made a great lower deck lawyer in your day, short as it was. 

As for your comment regarding recruiters, I have way too much respect for the ones I have met and have dealt with then to even dignify that stupid comment with a reply.

potato


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## BulletProof (3 Nov 2006)

I have not once used a personal insult towards anyone.  I merely stated an opinion, crass as it was I suppose.

_As for your comment regarding recruiters, I have way too much respect for the ones I have met and have dealt with then to even dignify that stupid comment with a reply._

I've met a lot of honest car salespeople but I know people that would say that's a stupid comment too.

Something is stupid if it defy's rationality and doesn't offer anything.  Saying something stupid is a prejudice against someones beliefs.  I think it's stupid to think that all the recruiters are wealth's of information.  They're not.  Period.  I'm not going to mention names, but there's a few that worked/work in Toronto that aren't worth the coffee stains on their wrinkled uniforms.  Granted I have met a very knowledgable recruiter in Victoria BC.  To say that all recruiters are of the same as those you know is a very stupid comment as well.

My recruitment process took 13 months.  Why?  They lost my file once, I was told by TWO recruiters I was too tall to join as a Pilot so I had to change what I wanted my MOC to be, they mixed up my interview with another members and told me I needed to wait a year to redo it(which I eventually got straightened out) and THEN they lost my medical records!

Do I need to say what's wrong with that picture?  Sure I may have a glass half empty approach to recruitment, all you people ever tell these potential recruits is to suck it up, but in the real world, people that have this approach and that screw up this much are fired.

End of story.


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## derael (3 Nov 2006)

I'd "lose" your medical records too. Yes it had to be said. You sound like the type of person who has made a living on excuses and passing the buck.

Sure there may be some truth to your story, I can't really be certain. What I do know is that, except for having to provide extra medical documentation, my recruitment process was pretty much flawless. Not to mention several recruiters went out of their way to aid and assist me. In fact the majority of people I have spoken to have had no problems with the system. Are there kinks in the system? Sure. Am I glad one less whiner and complainer is not in the CF anymore? Damn straight.


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## pronto (3 Nov 2006)

Too bad Kincanuks isn't in recruiting anymore... I would LOVE to see this numpty in front of him.


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## xo31@711ret (3 Nov 2006)

As someone who just retired: Spent the last 4 years at a recruiting center doing medicals: MINIMUM 12 days 'on the road' a month at remote detachments doing medicals, going in to work at LEAST every other weekend just playing catch-up with the admin. Lazy?  My better half and two young daughters didn't think so...my kids just wanted to be able to spend more time with their father.

FYI _in case you think I complain _  :crybaby: : spent 6 years in the RCR as an infanteer (beacoup field time); spent 2 years at Stadecona doing shift work; spent 3 years as a battery medic (beaucoup field); spent 5 years as a medic with the RCR (again beacoup field); 4 years at recruiting (as above). out of 24 years, +20 were in the field; shift work; taskings / recruiting. The 'hardest' being 4 yours at recruiting. Would I do it again? -You bet; Lazy at recruiting... well I guess it depends on your definition of lazy. The recruiters I dealt / worked with were professional and spent a lot of time out of the office recruiting.

BTW; medical information is confidential - only you and the medical personnel are aware of your personal medical history (as it should be): all recruiters need to know is whether or not you are fit medically.


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## spud (3 Nov 2006)

xo31@711ret said:
			
		

> As someone who just retired: Spent the last 4 years at a recruiting center doing medicals: MINIMUM 12 days 'on the road' a month at remote detachments doing medicals, going in to work at LEAST every other weekend just playing catch-up with the admin. Lazy?  My better half and two young daughters didn't think so...my kids just wanted to be able to spend more time with their father.
> 
> FYI _in case you think I complain _  :crybaby: : spent 6 years in the RCR as an infanteer (beacoup field time); spent 2 years at Stadecona doing shift work; spent 3 years as a battery medic (beaucoup field); spent 5 years as a medic with the RCR (again beacoup field); 4 years at recruiting (as above). out of 24 years, +20 were in the field; shift work; taskings / recruiting. The 'hardest' being 4 yours at recruiting. Would I do it again? -You bet; Lazy at recruiting... well I guess it depends on your definition of lazy. The recruiters I dealt / worked with were professional and spent a lot of time out of the office recruiting.
> 
> BTW; medical information is confidential - only you and the medical personnel are aware of your personal medical history (as it should be): all recruiters need to know is whether or not you are fit medically.



'Nuff said.

potato


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## krystal (3 Nov 2006)

Also, don't all medicals have to be cleared with Borden before you get the go? So the medic in the recruitment office might thought it would be ok, but Borden could of said no. My friend is waiting word from borden about asthama


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## xo31@711ret (3 Nov 2006)

Also, don't all medicals have to be cleared with Borden before you get the go? So the medic in the recruitment office might thought it would be OK, but Borden could of said no. My friend is waiting word from borden about asthma  

Correct, except Ottawa ,not Borden. The Recruiting Medical Office has the final say as to whether or not an individual is medically fit.
 As I stated in a previous; two people may have the same medical condition, but may react differently; how severe is the condition? What medications does one require? What happens if the individual lose the medications? ( someone who has a severe reaction and requires medication; for example a severe allergy or severe asthma in the sandbox when a HELO dustoff (if available) is + 15 minutes off; every minute counts when your windpipe has swollen shut depriving the body & brain of oxygen...) Only the individual, medical staff and the appropriate medical follow-up / paper trail will determine 'medical fitness'.

Just my 2 cents: every individual has the right to apply for employment ; not everyone has the right for a position. YOU are applying for a job; the employer wants the best bang for his buck: the employer wants to determine as best as can be that you are able to do the job required...


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## BulletProof (4 Nov 2006)

derael said:
			
		

> I'd "lose" your medical records too. Yes it had to be said. You sound like the type of person who has made a living on excuses and passing the buck.
> 
> Sure there may be some truth to your story, I can't really be certain. What I do know is that, except for having to provide extra medical documentation, my recruitment process was pretty much flawless. Not to mention several recruiters went out of their way to aid and assist me. In fact the majority of people I have spoken to have had no problems with the system. Are there kinks in the system? Sure. Am I glad one less whiner and complainer is not in the CF anymore? Damn straight.



You can talk when you know what the CF is.  I've put my time in.  I spent 1 year with the War on Terror, 6 months at sea on the HMCS Vancouver in which we managed 72 days at sea(a record in the books) and boarded about 90 ships in the gulf.  After that I did another run on the HMCS Regina for 6 months prior to releasing and boarded about 70 more.  2 series of workups almost 2 years at sea in 3 years.  This makes me a complainer and a whiner?  I gave nothing but 110% to the CF.  I don't owe the military anything and it owes me nothing in return.  

What I don't need is the opinion from someone who hasn't even gone through basic yet.  You don't know me and don't pretend to.  I'm glad your process was quick and flawless, congratulations here's a medal or here's what one looks like rather :  so you know if you make it...

I don't comment I things I know nothing of.  You won't see me talking about anything related to a lot of MOC's because I'm not qualified nor have the knowledge to.  I mentioned my own observations and felt that myself and quite a few others were shafted when it came to the recruitment side of things.  So instead of hiding behind a guise that anyone that has any displeasure in anything green with a Canadian flag on it is a whiny "b", maybe you should listen more and talk less.  

I think a simple disclaimer that some allergies may not allow you to join the CF would not cause a lot of harm.  The recruiting process to get to a medical CAN BE long for some people.  They're not whining to ask for that so get off your high horses. 



*_Milnet.ca staff edit for site policy_*


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## derael (4 Nov 2006)

> You can talk when you know what the CF is.



I'm not sure where in that whole paragraph that I claimed I knew everything that the CF was about. However I do have relative experience with members that hold positions in the CF, some in recruiting and some not. Not yet have I met one that was lazy like you claim yourself to be. IAP/BOTP or not, I'll have the same opinions of you and the service before and after the course, I'll guarantee you that. 

Are there lazy people in CF? Probably, its just a fact of numbers. But I also happen to believe that the majority of men and women in the CF are hard working individuals.

I'll give you one thing though. At least you didn't try to stay in and milk the system. Congrats for that.




> I don't comment I things I know nothing of.  You won't see me talking about anything related to a lot of MOC's because I'm not qualified nor have the knowledge to.  I mentioned my own observations and felt that myself and quite a few others were shafted when it came to the recruitment side of things.  So instead of hiding behind a guise that anyone that has any displeasure in anything green with a Canadian flag on it is a whiny "b", maybe you should listen more and talk less.



There is no guise. I never said "there are no lazy people within the CF." Or did I? Let me check... Nope. I just find it laughable that you're trying to label a lot of people within the forces just because you yourself have a lazy attitude. I guess it gets easier to despise something and critique it the more you find yourself out of touch with it. 



> You don't know me and don't pretend to



I don't need to. You called yourself lazy.



> A lot of people in the CF are lazy.  They don't start out that way, they become that way over time.  Working for the government does it to everyone.  I even became lazy when I was in.





> You can talk when you know what the CF is.  I've put my time in.  I spent 1 year with the War on Terror, 6 months at sea on the HMCS Vancouver in which we managed 72 days at sea(a record in the books) and boarded about 90 ships in the gulf.  After that I did another run on the HMCS Regina for 6 months prior to releasing and boarded about 70 more.  2 series of workups almost 2 years at sea in 3 years.  This makes me a complainer and a whiner?  I gave nothing but 110% to the CF.  I don't owe the military anything and it owes me nothing in return.



Then you try to go back and call youself a hard worker. So what are you trying to say? You're all over the map.


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## rmacqueen (4 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> Do I need to say what's wrong with that picture?  Sure I may have a glass half empty approach to recruitment, all you people ever tell these potential recruits is to suck it up, but in the real world, people that have this approach and that screw up this much are fired.



I am not sure what "real" world you are actually in but it isn't the one I have seen.  Between unions, job protection laws and just plain covering your butt, people who screw up are rarely fired unless they are some poor peon who is just another cog in the company wheel.  Want an example, take a look at Nortel.  John Roth, the CEO of Nortel, almost drove the company into the ground and walked away with millions of dollars in performance bonus'.  Want an example at the other end of the scale?  In the company I work for there is an employee who misses at least one Monday every month and doesn't bother to call in.  He has been doing this for over 2 years.  That is your "real" world.

You are also comparing apples and oranges.  The recruiting office is manned by personnel of various trades who attend courses to teach them about the recruiting process.  You have people from combat arms, naval trades, air force trades, etc, who have very little experience in human resources who are suddenly thrust into a position of being a marketer, public speaker, teacher, public relations professional and human resource person.  Even the administration people posted to recruiting usually have very little experience in dealing with the public in this aspect.  Contrast this with your so-called "real" world where you are often dealing with people who have gone to school to learn nothing but human resources.  They specialize in it, go to school and conferences to stay on top of new laws and trends and do nothing but hr as their career.  Also, in the "real" world, the human resource people do not have to deal with medical issues as it is against the law for them to even take that into consideration when someone applies for a job.  Medical conditions that can affect military personnel are not a concern in a civilian position.  Asthma, for instance, is not a big deal when the medications can be picked up at you local pharmacy and inhalation therapy is only as far as your local hospital.  It *is* a big deal when your inhaler has to be flown in on a Herc and the nearest hospital is 1,000 km away.



			
				BulletProof said:
			
		

> I think a simple disclaimer that some allergies may not allow you to join the CF would not cause a lot of harm.  The recruiting process to get to a medical CAN BE long for some people.  They're not whining to ask for that so get off your high horses.



The problem with this is that it is simplistic with an obvious lack of understanding of recruiting.  All cases are different and a blanket list would not be appropriate.  Should the CF say that anyone with hay fever should not be in the military?  Asthma?  Milk allergies?  Much of it depends on the trade, the severity of the condition and the availability, and side affects, of the treatments.  Are you suggesting  an Infantry Sgt or WO should be able to make that sort of determination?  Perhaps it would be better if they passed on to the Pilot or Mars officer at the recruiting centre to decide.



			
				BulletProof said:
			
		

> I don't comment I things I know nothing of.



Apparently you do though, or at least you don't think before you do.  You seem to think there is an abundance of medical personnel who are just waiting for some potential applicants file to cross their desk.  In a society where the general public has trouble finding a doctor do you think the CF has lots?  The reality is there is a shortage of medical people in the CF and the ones the CF have are stretched thin as well.  They are not there at the recruiting offices beck and call.  They have to fit the assessments in amongst all the other duties they have.  In a world where it can take someone with a potentially life threatening condition almost a year to get a simple cat scan, the fact that it takes months for one of the few doctors the CF has to assess the suitability of a recruit is minor.


Are there lazy people in the CF?  Sure there are and I, for one, will readily support you when you actually give examples of laziness.  Unfortunately, you insist on using your experience as an example and it really just shows an obvious bias on your part towards the recruiting system.  You do not know what went on behind the scenes that caused your situation yet you insist on painting everyone involved with the same brush.

One last point, the use of generalizations in the English language, is considered to be lazy writing.


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## George Wallace (4 Nov 2006)

BulletProof said:
			
		

> I left the forces after 3 years at end of contract.  I was not released.  The issue was I did not feel I was making enough $$$.  There are many reasons to join the forces and granted the money is decent; I lost the heart to do it anymore.  I was working 75-85 hour weeks at sea and 50 alongside.  I was frustrated that it often times averaged less than what I would make in a parallel civilian workplace for less hours.  I was correct.



 :

Wow!  Like a whole 75-85 hours per week at sea.  Man, you never went to sea very much did you?

Good thing you weren't in the Cbt Arms.  They spend up to 168 hours per week in the Field, and they are actually having 'real' bullets and rockets fired at them.  There is no 'down time' in a combat zone.  

I am sure we all feel so sorry that you had to work so much for so little in your three years of service (small "s"). 

Good riddance.

Now I am sure this topic has degraded so far that it is of no value any longer.

*We all know!*                                                                                 and   LOCKED!


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