# Canadian Forces Joint Headquarters



## Gorgo (11 Jan 2014)

With CFJHQ now transformed back into 1 CDN DIV HQ, I doubt I could find anything on the former unit's internal workings.

So here's my question:  How exactly was the Joint Headquarters set up?  Was it the classical J1, J2, J3, etc setup of staff officers under a LCol as commanding officer of the headquarters unit?

My thanks ahead of time to those who respond.


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## Ostrozac (11 Jan 2014)

My recollection is a little hazy, but this is how I remember the JHQ in the 2004ish timeframe.

In the "in-between years" between 1 Cdn Div and 1 Cdn Div the CFJHQ was organized along the NATO numbered system, with LCol J1, J2, J3, J4, J5, J6... and I think the J7 and J8 were Majors. There were also 2 or 3 LCol COS positions; I think that there was a COS, an ACOS Ops and an ACOS Support. There was no deputy commander, as I recall. The ACOS Support was doublehatted as the Headquarters CO -- at least I seem to remember that he signed our Christmas leave passes.

The commander was a Col, and although posted on strength of the CFJHQ he was not the CO, he was the commander of the overall formation of CF Joint Operations Group (which included as subordinate units the CFJHQ, the CF Joint Support Group, the DART, the Joint Signals Regiment, and the Joint NBC Company).

All this structure was blown up in late 2005/early 2006 when the CFJHQ was stripped of most personnel to man the dot coms at Star Top.


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## Gorgo (11 Jan 2014)

Thanks so much, Ostrozac.

BTW, what's Star Top?


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## Ostrozac (11 Jan 2014)

It's a building in the east end of Ottawa that has been the host to a series of command headquarters-- Canadian Expeditionary Force Command, Canada Command, and Canadian Operational Support Command were headquarted there. These three were then amalgamated as Canadian Joint Operations Command, which is located at the same site.


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## Gorgo (12 Jan 2014)

Ah, wakata


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## McG (12 Jan 2014)

Fred Herriot said:
			
		

> BTW, what's Star Top?


It is a street in Ottawa.  It is one word.

https://www.google.ca/#q=1600+Startop+Road+Ottawa+ON&safe=active


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## armyvern (12 Jan 2014)

Startop = CJOC (Canadian Joint Operations Command);
Kingston = CFJOSG HQ (Canadian Joint Operations Support Group HQ); and
Kingston = 1 Cdn Div HQ.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-org-structure/canadian-joint-operations-command.page

CFJSR etc fall under CFJOSG these days; we wear the CJOC Command Badge.

1 Cdn Div HQ does not wear the same Command Badge as us, CFJOSG HQ or CJOC, nor do we wear their Red Patch (although we support them - as seen in our lovely Wainwright pic from the 1 Cdn Div HQ website - http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/1st-canadian-division/index.page ).


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## PuckChaser (12 Jan 2014)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> 1 Cdn Div HQ does not wear the same Command Badge as us, CFJOSG HQ or CJOC, nor do we wear their Red Patch (although we support them - as seen in our lovely Wainwright pic from the 1 Cdn Div HQ website - http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/1st-canadian-division/index.page ).



That HQ looks nothing like the mod farm in the E30 parking lot... ;D


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## 211RadOp (22 Jan 2014)

No it does not, but it is as much a pain in the donkey to set up.


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## armyvern (22 Jan 2014)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> No it does not, but it is as much a pain in the donkey to set up.



You live!!  I'm waiting to see a CFTPO from 1 Sqn shortly --- to bring you back here on tasking during the Regimental Swim Meet.  Losers!!   >


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## 211RadOp (23 Jan 2014)

Vern I would go back there in a minute....just to see you in a bathing suit again!  >


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## Journeyman (23 Jan 2014)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> ....just to see you in a bathing suit again!  >











And when is this swim meet?


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## little jim (23 Jan 2014)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> 1 Cdn Div HQ does not wear the same Command Badge as us, CFJOSG HQ or CJOC, nor do we wear their Red Patch (although we support them - as seen in our lovely Wainwright pic from the 1 Cdn Div HQ website - http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/1st-canadian-division/index.page ).



Would appreciate it if someone 'in the know' could send me some data on what the in the photo layout is.  Seems awfully large for a Div HQ.  PM me for my work email.

Thanks.


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## George Wallace (23 Jan 2014)

little jim said:
			
		

> Would appreciate it if someone 'in the know' could send me some data on what the in the photo layout is.  Seems awfully large for a Div HQ.  PM me for my work email.
> 
> Thanks.



That is the Div HQ, the Messing facilities, the sleeping facilities, and various support facilities (Stores, Power generation, IT support, Admin support, etc.) necessary for the HQ to deploy.  If you read the caption, that photo is of the HQ deployed in the Field in Wainwright.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Jan 2014)

A division, any formation HQ is a very _flexible_ thing. The HQ of a division which is part of a national corps, which is, in turn, part of a national (or allied) numbered army that is fighting on a large, conventional battlefield, might be quite small - 50_ish_ staff officers working in a dozen or so vehicles, supported by a couple of hundred admin and support folks and, say, 250 signals people. The same division HQ, transported to an independent operation which might invoke a mix of combat and "nation building" in some remote and undeveloped region might need 100+ staff officers working in buildings or large, "fixed" shelters, with a much larger admin/support structure and 500+ signals folks.

The monstrosity in the photo reflects what one staff thought it needed to _manage_ one sort of situation ~ in that case a large exercise.


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## Nfld Sapper (23 Jan 2014)

This looks like the 200+ man camp we have to design on the Engr 6B TP WO and the CE Sup 6B course....


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## Journeyman (23 Jan 2014)

It_ looks_ like a wonderful place for an air-/arty-strike.


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## George Wallace (23 Jan 2014)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> It_ looks_ like a wonderful place for an air-/arty-strike.



Always is.


That and the Antenna Farm.


 >


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## 211RadOp (23 Jan 2014)

little jim said:
			
		

> Would appreciate it if someone 'in the know' could send me some data on what the in the photo layout is.  Seems awfully large for a Div HQ.  PM me for my work email.
> 
> Thanks.



No need for the PM.

North is to the right as you look at the picture.  All the mod on the north half is accomodations for, in this case, CFJSR, 1 Cdn Div HQ and assorted hangers on.

Two white roofed hardstand building are the abulution buildings.

Mod and S6 (Three pronged tentage) running from the middle to the east is the DIV set up, including the CP, ASIC, Advisors as well as tentage for EXCON and flanking units.

South 1/4 of the whole strip was CFJSR supporting the monstrosity, with elements from RHQ, 1 Sqn, 3 Sqn, 1 Line Sqn and Sp Sqn. We also had some augmentees from the RCN and RCAF.

South of the hardstand is C/S 8 and the NCCIS Det.


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## little jim (23 Jan 2014)

All,

Thanks for some of the PM's.

To clarify my opinion is that  the photo used for the news article looks like a deployable, static division sized HQ.  I was just asking for some PD on what the layout is of the tents in the photo.

When you look at a US Div HQ that is deployable and still able to move while commanding it's subordinate brigades (manoeuvre, sustainment and aviation) in addition to plug in for the other governmental organizations, multi-national LO teams, LSA and usually the subordinate fires brigade HQ it appears big.  

(LSA is what the generators, living tentage and work space for the HQ Bn as well as the squishy types like the Chaplin, PAO, MIR, etc)

There seems to be a lot of FOB mentality in some areas as people rely on what they experienced in AFG as what a TOC looks like.  Just because you have 10 staff officers in a staff section doesn't mean you get ten workstations when you are conducting 24/7 Ops plus the HQ tax for security and geny maint.

It is always nice to look at what other people are doing so you can adapt it to your specific situation in order to create a capability that not only meets the command and control requirements with the commander's personality.  What the 82nd does might not support 1st Armd Div but is  always good to look at how others take doctrine and apply it to their sit.  

Was just looking for a Canadian view on things.

Thanks


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## little jim (23 Jan 2014)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> No need for the PM.
> 
> North is to the right as you look at the picture.  All the mod on the north half is accomodations for, in this case, CFJSR, 1 Cdn Div HQ and assorted hangers on.
> 
> ...



Thank you.  Learning has occurred.


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## 211RadOp (23 Jan 2014)

The HQ is never set up in the same way twice.  The layout depends on a lot of factors: ground layout, cabling requirements, staff requirements, CSS and Sigs requirements.  Lots of variables.  I have seen this set up three different times in three different locations with three completely different layouts.  CFJSR(-) was on the ground a month before the staff arrived setting this up and were there for about a week after tearing it down.


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## PuckChaser (23 Jan 2014)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> No it does not, but it is as much a pain in the donkey to set up.



I didn't envy those guys at all.


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## Robert0288 (23 Jan 2014)

Nope, makes me happy I just had to fly in, lay some wires and fly out again. ;D


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## armyvern (23 Jan 2014)

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> Nope, makes me happy I just had to fly in, lay some wires and fly out again. ;D



We had some troops out there for 3 months.   :'(


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## Robert0288 (23 Jan 2014)

I got called in 1/2 way to fill in for a guy going on compassionate leave, so only 1.5 months for me. although I did feel bad for the guys who where stuck there for the full 3 months


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## 211RadOp (23 Jan 2014)

I lucked in.  The RSM decided that I had to be in Kingston for the Change of Command parade to be the flag party commander so I was only there for two.


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## armyvern (24 Jan 2014)

little jim said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> Was just looking for a Canadian view on things.
> 
> Thanks


Well, you are quite correct in that the pic view that I linked is was 57 seacans worth of example of a Div Deployed Static HQ.  Glad that's over.


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## 211RadOp (26 Jan 2014)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Glad that's over.



Glad I miss JOINTEX 15!


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## pbi (6 Feb 2014)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Glad I miss JOINTEX 15!



(Scary organ music...)

Woo-ha-ha! I will make sure you are on JOINTEX 15 Mwa-ha-ha!

*(Sound of coffin lid slamming...)*


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