# Would you consider leaving the CF and joining another country's Defence Force



## 1feral1 (17 Apr 2008)

Can you, and are you willing to fight under another nation's flag, put that country first and foremost, and having Canada ride the back seat?

Pros of leaving Canada:

A new life and a fresh start

Dual citizenship

Adventure, and make new friends

New country, traditions and customs

Deployments in places where Canada is not involved

Opposite sex a new challenge

See and experience new things

Cons:

Long laspes in visiting home

Homesickness - I still get it the odd time

Missing important family occasions, including funerals and weddings, Christmas etc

Farewells to family and friends, and yes pets too


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## bartbandyrfc (17 Apr 2008)

Yes, almost did.  The period was just after the referendum, and I was seriously pissed off about the strife in my nation.

The decision was whether to go fly for the RAAF or stay in Canada.  It was one or the other.  Canada is a great country, but I felt it was populated by spoiled brats durig this period.  It was also in the midst of the "decade of darkness".  Oz seemed to be the solution. Commonwealth nation, similar outlook, similar QoL, and less PC'ness.  I decided to stay, in part because of family, in part because I thought it couldn't get worse.

It did get worse, but now it's prety good again.

BB


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## Mike Baker (17 Apr 2008)

Well, even though I am not even in yet, I do think that it would be intresting to go the way you did Wes.

As of now, my heart and loyalty belongs to my nation of Canada, and I will always have the deepest respect for her, and I hope that she doesn't do anything to make me change that.

But, it would be very intresting to see what it is like in another country's Military, such as OZ. Would like to know a bit more if your willing to tell me, Wes 


Baker


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## aesop081 (17 Apr 2008)

Several individuals in CYZX have recently chosen to leave for the RAAF.........I have to admit, i thought about it too.


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## RangerRay (17 Apr 2008)

Although I'm not thinking about it now, when I was younger I did consider joining another Commonwealth army.  (UK, Australia, New Zealand).  

Back in my early 20s when I was in the Reserves, I learned that it would have been relatively to join the British Army.  Had I known that out of high school, I probably would have tried joining them.

After visiting New Zealand a few years ago, I did seriously consider moving there, and joining their reserves would have been interesting.

In the end, it all came down to leaving friends, family, beautiful British Columbia, etc...  8)


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## X-mo-1979 (17 Apr 2008)

Really joining the army for me wasn't a patriotic thing at all.Not much to do with the flag,or country.Just wanted to be a soldier.

And now after having a family my other motivating factor is pay.

I'm a soldier for money and little else.

So yes I would go join another army if it benefited me.


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (17 Apr 2008)

I dont know to be honest. It depends on the situation. I view myself as a newfoundland nationalist, and allthough I'm really pissed off at the way we're treated in confederation, and the supposed reason Canada wanted us in. Canada has done some rather respectable things though, and her military is usually in the right place for the right reason. So, my tie may not be as strong. However, if another country was being invaded by a force who wished to implement views contrary to democraxcy and freesom, say a fascist/socialist state, and Canada wasnt involved, then yeah Id go and join, probably more if I had family/ancestry from the area. 

There are also some extremely unlikely situations where I would consider it.


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## X-mo-1979 (17 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> I dont know to be honest. It depends on the situation. I view myself as a newfoundland nationalist, that I'm allthough really pissed off at the way we're treated in confederation, and the supposed reason Canada wanted us in. Canada has done some rather respectable things though, and her military is usually in the right place for the right reason. So, my tie may not be as strong. However, if another country was being invaded by a force who wished to implement views contrary to democraxcy and freesom, say a fascist/socialist state, and Canada wasnt involved, then yeah Id go and join, probably more if I had family/ancestry from the area.
> 
> There are also some extremely unlikely situations where I would consider it.



Yawn get over it.Granddad did.


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (17 Apr 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Yawn get over it.Granddad did.



W/E...


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## Mike Baker (17 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> I dont know to be honest. It depends on the situation. I view myself as a *N*ewfoundland nationalist, and allthough I'm really pissed off at the way we're treated in confederation, and the supposed reason Canada wanted us in. Canada has done some rather respectable things though, and her military is usually in the right place for the right reason. So, my tie may not be as strong. However, if another country was being invaded by a force who wished to implement views contrary to democraxcy and freesom, say a fascist/socialist state, and Canada wasnt involved, then yeah Id go and join, probably more if I had family/ancestry from the area.
> 
> There are also some extremely unlikely situations where I would consider it.


Well, I love my Newfoundland more then most, but, I am a Canadian, first and formost. Yet, I still love my province, we may not have had things go in our way, but, we cannot change history.



			
				Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> W/E...


 :

Let's not ruin a good thread.

Baker


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (17 Apr 2008)

Not my intent to ruin a good topic, just brushing it off, and moving on

Another topic can be started on confederation/provinces


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## Mike Baker (17 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> Well, still, its somewhat like Quebec is, and we are the recent signing on the team, so its understandable we're the most reluctant to be caled Canadian over a Newfoundlander. first I see it as more a tachnicalitytechnicality, like for me personally I'm Canadian, but "Canadian" (says with passion). I'm just saying I don't like they way Canada views us, and I essentially want more autonomy for my province. I don't want to be viewed as some crackpot gerry boyle type character (uyou remember him don't you). I know its history, but as its said, history bites.
> 
> I hope you understand
> 
> Back to the topic


Oh of course I understand. Yet, I still deem myself a Canadian, _and_ a Newfoundlander. Even if we did join into Canada late, we are still Canadians. But I don't think that we should get any more respect then, say, PEI, we are all a part of Canada, no one should have more respect then others.

I think that if most people here thought that Canada was screwing over Newfoundland, one would assume that there would be more people who would want us to leave this great nation of ours (i.e. like a 'Free Newfoundland' Party).

Sorry Mods, had to get that out.

Now back on topic.

Baker


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## aesop081 (17 Apr 2008)

Pick a subject......Joining foreign forces or Newfoundland. I don't care which but pick one and stick to it.

Thank you for your unwavering and fanatical cooperation.

Milnet.ca staff


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## RTaylor (17 Apr 2008)

I'll get us back on topic : 

So since we're a commonwealth nation, we can join the militaries of the other commonwealth nations without many real issues?


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (17 Apr 2008)

It depends what commonwealth country. Like we're all becoming different and similar, but NZ, AUS, UK seem to be the main three. I dont think I would want to fight for NZ, because they dont have much of a military, no fighter capability, and im not sure they have tanks


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## 1feral1 (17 Apr 2008)

Some red tape, I allowed a year, and get a CTC of your service record in its entirety.


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## RTaylor (17 Apr 2008)

I wonder if they ride kiwi's into battle...   ;D


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## Old Sweat (17 Apr 2008)

The Kiwis do not have to apologize for their military record in any of the wars of the 20th century.


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## 1feral1 (17 Apr 2008)

I know they have LAVs, not a real Air Force, blew off their A4 Skyhawks a while back.

Ground wise, trained with them, lots of Territorials, seemed switched on. Ran into many in Feb where we had an exchange for a few weeks.

Do't know much about their Navy either.

I reckon they are tenacious though, its in the blood.


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## RTaylor (17 Apr 2008)

I'd love to go there sometime, got some blood there from a few generations back.


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## Hibbsie (17 Apr 2008)

I don't believe I would be able to leave and join a foreign military. Of course I've thought about, who hasn't; when I was young I used to wounder what it would be like to run off and join the French Foreign Legion. But when it comes down to it I never could. There are plenty of other jobs in the world where I could be making a lot more money, but i chose the military to protect the freedoms of Canadians and be part of that brotherhood. To leave that behind and join a foreign force would make me feel too much like a merc.


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## 30 for 30 (17 Apr 2008)

I would love to move down to NZ but from what I can tell the military pay is terrible compared to ours. The NZDF website notes that a new army captain starts at about 41K Cdn. Compare to 66K up here. I believe prices are lower but the pay still doesn't seem to be any comparison. Oz pay doesn't seem as high either but perhaps Wes can provide insight. I looked at UK officer salaries the other day and they appear better. Higher cost of living however etc.


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## meni0n (17 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> It depends what commonwealth country. Like we're all becoming different and similar, but NZ, AUS, UK seem to be the main three. I dont think I would want to fight for NZ, because they dont have much of a military, no fighter capability, and im not sure they have tanks



Umm, that sounds like the CF before Hillier. I had a UK app all filled out and ready to go, didn't go thru with it. Needed a sponsor in the UK and I didn't know anyone there.


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (17 Apr 2008)

I've read about the legion. It seems like a rough life, but you get pretty decent pay, celebrity status, and a bunch hugely courageous, loyal men, guess it varies on the person. If your someone who wants a new life and finds interest in the military you may be interested


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## 1feral1 (18 Apr 2008)

Senor Mono said:
			
		

> I would love to move down to NZ but from what I can tell the military pay is terrible compared to ours. The NZDF website notes that a new army captain starts at about 41K Cdn. Compare to 66K up here. I believe prices are lower but the pay still doesn't seem to be any comparison. Oz pay doesn't seem as high either but perhaps Wes can provide insight. I looked at UK officer salaries the other day and they appear better. Higher cost of living however etc.



We (Australia) have a service allowance of 10,063 per annum, so add that on to the pay rate desired. I dont't know if the EnZedders have this. In May a whopping 2.8% increase in pay.


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## Hibbsie (18 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> I've read about the legion. It seems like a rough life, but you get pretty decent pay, celebrity status, and a bunch hugely courageous, loyal men, guess it varies on the person. If your someone who wants a new life and finds interest in the military you may be interested



If you want to know more about them I suggest you look for the videos on youtube about a kiwi in the legion. And yeah "rough life" is a bit of a understatement, I've heard they get real bullets shot at them during training. (guess if u can't dodge one in practice how are you to doge one in real life)


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (18 Apr 2008)

Most militaries do. When my dad was in germany he had to do training with germans firing over his head. Live fire exercises


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## 1feral1 (18 Apr 2008)

Archilochus said:
			
		

> If you want to know more about them I suggest you look for the videos on youtube about a kiwi in the legion. And yeah "rough life" is a bit of a understatement, I've heard they get real bullets shot at them during training. (guess if u can't dodge one in practice how are you to doge one in real life)



Strange enough, I know more men that defected (still wanted) from the FFL, and no none who comleted their 5 yr engagement. All told me, they were constantly abused, and in the early days beaten (and I mean BEATEN) by their NCOs.

Need I say more. if one wants that lifestyle, well thats a personal thing.

There are better armies to choose from (IMHO), and they speak english which is great if you only have the one language.


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## Hibbsie (18 Apr 2008)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Strange enough, I know more men that defected (still wanted) from the FFL, and no none who comleted their 5 yr engagement. All told me, they were constantly abused, and in the early days beaten (and I mean BEATEN) by their NCOs.



Not surprising. Its possible for one to be sent to jail for X number of years for something as simple as not getting the cresses right in your uniform.

But yes they do have a sort of celebrity status in France, but it comes with an extremely hight price (being the French governments fodder being one)


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Apr 2008)

I have thought about this, and took a serious look at some jobs in the RAAF.  Its not ruled out and may be something I look at more serious if my current plans don't go as planned.

Of course, I ask "are we on the same side?" question.  Which for the RAAF, we are.  I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.


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## Proud_Newfoundlander (18 Apr 2008)

Australia, especially the RAAF, seems to be a popular  considered military route  some fellow army.ca members


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## Greymatters (18 Apr 2008)

If I had been single I would have tried going to the Australian Forces after the CF.  Some good people on their team...


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## BernDawg (18 Apr 2008)

I looked into joining the marines back in the day (read 80's) but I didn't want the lack of paycheck that would have gone with the wait for the green card (I was already in the CF).  Now I wouldn't switch for anything aside from the fact that I'm too old and broken to go through another round of basic training.  I like my job and probably wouldn't get the same respect anywhere else - from up or down the chain.


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## daftandbarmy (18 Apr 2008)

I did just that. Joined the British Army and had some of the best years of my life (especially the beer). No regrets at all, and I'd strongly recommend it to anyone who wants to soldier hard and doesn't give a rats a** about pensions and all that other career cr*p.

Having said all that, today's CF has some excellent soldiering opportunities that never existed when I was a lad e.g., worthwhile operational tours, CSOR, JTF etc and, if I was 20 years old again, it would be a much tougher choice.


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