# 126th Anniversary of the Battle of Rorkes Drift - where Michael Caine won the VC



## 54/102 CEF (20 Jan 2005)

This weekend 22 Jan is the 126th Anniversary of the Battle of Rorkes Drift in South Africa - an enduring example of what can be done by the resourceful commander and well trained motivated troops!   

See http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/vc/chard.htm and http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/battle/battle.htm


----------



## winchable (20 Jan 2005)

I watch the movie Zulu at least once a week.
I'm an avid Rorkes Drift history, thanks the movie largely which peaked my interest, but has since bloomed into a much larger interest beyond the movie.

The interesting thing about Zulu is that it is one of the war history movies where the actions of the soldiers in question was not embellished and by all accounts show the bravery of the soldiers.
From a time when honour, courage and integrity really, really meant something.


----------



## Art Johnson (20 Jan 2005)

"Chin chin Old Chap" as Michael Caine's character says. The portrayal of Pte. Hook is erroneous, he was a Temperance man and had signed the pledge. His relatives obtained an agreement from the producers of the picture to place a disclaimer to this effect in the movie but I doubt that it was ever done.
It is one of my favourite movies I bought a DVD of it just last year.


----------



## winchable (20 Jan 2005)

> The portrayal of Pte. Hook is erroneous, he was a Temperance man and had signed the pledge



I had just come back to add that when I saw your post Art.

Apart from that you've gotta love the portrayal of Victorian Army Officers right up until the actual battle starts.
The movie itself had some memorable lines, as well as THE best portrayal of a CS/SM in any war movie, ever:
"A prayer's as good as bayonet on a day like this"

Then again there was the obvious embellishment of "Men of Harlech" at the end, though it made for good theatrics.

As for the actual actions at Rorkes drift, there's a good batch of photos on that site in the original post of a trip there in recent years.
What I've tried to do is read the account of the battle and picture how it would've looked.


----------



## BillN (20 Jan 2005)

Best line in the movie, to me anyway, was by C/Sgt Bourne at the end when he was calling the roll to see who had survived.     The lads were fell in, dirty, torn, bloody, and very tired.   He called one of the names, and was answered with "C/Sgt".   C/Sgt Bourne, calmly and quietly states "Say Sir, Officer on Parade!", just as if they were on Parade at Brecon.

It's a brilliant movie, and as stated above che, a great portral of a Sr. NCO.

Cheers,
Bill


----------



## Steel Badger (20 Jan 2005)

The real pity is that, while Gonville Bromhead  ( half-deaf, half mad and hated by his troops as he was unfit for line service  with the result his company was habitually assigned to support duites) won the VC; Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne was not even nominated.....

Along with the Colour Sergeant who fought his half-company out of the slaughterhouse at Isandlhwana back across Buffalo river, the Senior NCO's seem to be ignored.

Although, perhaps this is a backwards compliment....indicating that his outstanding performance in the field was simply the standard required of a C/SGT or CSM...

Certainly it gives more humble fellows like myself something to strive for......


Pte Hughes: "Colour-Sergeant Bourne, whats all that shooting?"

Bourne: "A rifle.....Hughes.  If you're sick in hospital, you should go and lie down."



Bourne: " Sir, the gentleman has a bottle"



Bourne: "Comealong now Sir, Thats a good gentleman. you'll frighten the lads."


----------



## winchable (20 Jan 2005)

http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/defenders/bourne.htm

Rumour perhaps, but perhaps he was nominated after all.
It seems somewhat impossible that the Coulour Sergeant of the defending action would be overlooked.

"He's right, why us?"
"Because we're 'ere lad."


----------



## Danjanou (20 Jan 2005)

I agree it would seem appropriate to award him a VC. Bromhead and Chard got the VC and promotion to Major IIRC

Like more than one of us I'm sure in addition to watching this movie (time and again) for personal reasons I've seen it used (and later used it) as a training aid on leadership courses.

As explained to me then and as noted here  C/Sgt Bourne was doing what was expected of someone of his rank/appointment and therefore no VC. Kind of made me feel even better about my rank/position knowing that junior officers and Pte/Cpls would receive a decoration for doing what was considered my "normal duties" as it were


----------



## Michael OLeary (20 Jan 2005)

"Its a miracle!"
"If its a miracle, Colour Sergeant, is a short chamber Boxer Henry .45 calibre one"
"And a bayonet, sir.  With some guts behind it"

- dialogue from the movie "Zulu"


----------



## Danjanou (21 Jan 2005)

I't close to midnight, the wife's asleep. Excuse while I drag myself away from the PC and go turn on the TV and pop Zulu in (again).


----------



## Canuck_25 (21 Jan 2005)

Great movie, own the DVD. 

 I myself might watch it, thats after the stalingrad documentary of course


----------



## winchable (21 Jan 2005)

Reading through the Rorke's drift site I came across this article written by a descedant on the Zulu side.
http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/zulu_perspective.htm

Makes some very interesting points but comparing the English and African rememberance of the battle is dodgey at best given the differences in culture (though if you want the other extreme, read CS Bournes recollection of the events)
Also I wonder whether it's right to question the bravery of the men as a means of grinding a political axe with colonial powers.


----------



## Steel Badger (21 Jan 2005)

Che


I agree with you.......

I would argue that B Coy, 2Bn, 24th Foot AND the Umcijo Corps under Dabulumanzi displayed outstanding bravery during the fight for the mission station.


----------



## aesop081 (21 Jan 2005)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Like more than one of us I'm sure in addition to watching this movie (time and again) for personal reasons I've seen it used (and later used it) as a training aid on leadership courses.



in 98 on my JLC/JNCO, the CO had the entire company watch it in the base theatre in Wainwright......that was the first 2 hours of the course !!


----------



## Cloud Cover (21 Jan 2005)

We were shown the movie during basic in 1984, never forgot it. Our MCPL [Spence ...3 PPCLI] was apparently a big fan of the show as well as the cockney attitude and accents. If not for the fact that he yelled so loud while flailing his arms all over the place, we would never have understood a word he said.


----------



## Big Bad John (21 Jan 2005)

This thread has inspired me to pop my cd of "Men of Harlech" into the stereo and play it full bore!


----------



## Bill Smy (23 Jan 2005)

A few bits of interesting trivia here:-

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1440


----------



## DaveK (23 Jan 2005)

I read somewhere on the net that CSgt Bourne was to be nominated for the VC but was commissioned instead.  Anyone know if this is true.  He did retire an officer.


----------



## Jonny Boy (24 Jan 2005)

i love the movie. i also find it very interesting that 2 officers that have never had any combat experience prior to the Zulu attack could hold off thousands of Zulu's. it was an amazing movie and i have it on DOD now. they defiantly don't make them like that anymore.


----------



## Freedom_Rider (25 Jan 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> i love the movie. i also find it very interesting that 2 officers that have never had any combat experience prior to the Zulu attack could hold off thousands of Zulu's.



You have to remember the British attitude of the time.
They were a world power.
Most of them considered anyone who wasn't English to be slightly less than civilized people.
Want an example?
I remember reading a newpaper article about the president of France to my Grandmother ( born in Blackpool, died in 1961 at the age of 97). You know what she said?
"Well what do you expect, he is only a Frenchman you know."


----------



## Steel Badger (26 Jan 2005)

NCO's / WO's at Ishandhlwana


The Impi's had smashed all organized resistance within the Camp below Ishandhlwana....and while the Induna's began directing the mopping up operations; the remaining Europeans began their attmepts to pull out of the maelstrom.

Native Sergeant-Major Simeon Kambula of the excellent Edendale Horse of the Natal Native Contingent; in absence of his officers ; identified the moment of crisis and , in a disciplined organized body, pulled his troopers back off the Saddle and guided them to safety.

Upon reaching the Buffalo river, Sgt-Major Kambula brought his troopers safely across and then dismounted them. He had his men fire three volleys to break up the Zulu's massing on the Natal bank....and then keep his troopers in position to cover the men fleeing across the river. They remained until their ammunition had been fully expended. Then they rode out for Helpmakaar; still in an organized body......


Taken from THE WASHING OF THE SPEARS (The Rise and Fall of the Zulu Nation) By Donald Morris
Simon and Schuster/Touchstone Books, New York, 1965


----------



## Steel Badger (26 Jan 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> i love the movie. i also find it very interesting that 2 officers that have never had any combat experience prior to the Zulu attack could hold off thousands of Zulu's. it was an amazing movie and i have it on DOD now. they defiantly don't make them like that anymore.



You forget that the movie overlooked the pivotal role played by Acting Commisarriat James Langley Dalton...

Far from being the quasi-simpering bean counter portrayed by the movie......Dalton was a long time Sgt-Major rewared with a quasi-military commission.  Faced with a troubling decision to fight or retreat; Chard and Bromhead were guided by Dalton's insistance that flight was suicide. He further urged using the crates and mealie bags from the storehouses as material to make fortifications...
Dalton was awarded the VC for his role in the battle.


----------



## Bill Smy (29 Jan 2005)

I recall this movie being used in the study of the defence. The instructors used segments to demonstate various aspects of the defence: distribution of force, defence in depth, interlocking fire, counter attack-force. Then at the end of the course the whole movie was shown in total. A very effective instructional technique.


----------



## DaveK (30 Jan 2005)

Freedom_Rider said:
			
		

> You have to remember the British attitude of the time.
> They were a world power.
> Most of them considered anyone who wasn't English to be slightly less than civilized people.
> Want an example?
> ...



Gonville Bromhead was born in France.   Additionally he joined the British Army, I believe, in 1868 - and was in South Africa about one or two years before Rourke's Drift. Plus he was 33 when the battle was fought, hardly a twelve-year-old with a commission.


----------



## 043 (31 Jan 2005)

Ah yes, the day the Engineers took command over the infantry and lead the way! 11 VC's that day! And the glorious engineer???????? Just another day at the office. 

And if you wish, I can provide quotes.

CHIMO!!!!!!!!


----------

