# PRETC thread (merged)



## Wright

Who here as been a member or is currently a member of the unit called PRETC.

1. I believe that the idea is good, let new members train and get ready for upcoming courses.
2. However, they are understaffed, way to many people, what was the latest count, something like 550 members i heard, to many people for the 15 NCOs that they have on staff, and that is being generous.
3. The sick parade shitpumps there, get a grip, you joined the military, get used to inspection, i hate garrison completely and i still stuck around for them.
4. AWOL, too many people are goin AWOL for periods of three weeks or so , and getting away with it, get strict pretty damn quick, i am talkin send people to Club Med in eddy to straighten them out.
5. Also, Morale there is pretty damn low, if they are gonna train, put them in the damn field, doin section attacks against the other companies, (for those that dont know their are too companies Alpha and Bravo, each has 3 platoons,) Recce patrols, get them used to using the equipment they will be using for the rest of their lives or careers. Lose the regs that say that they cant teach them what they havent been taught already, they know it , what is the point of learning the C7 drills over again, they all know them off by heart, teach them new stuff, rope bridges, defensive/offensive strategies, 90% of the memebrs there have to do SQ, it will help them in the end.
5. Let the staff be informed, recently alot of the staff dont know when certain people courses are that are in their platoon,   it is confusing to get a run around and get sent from COY office to COY clerk, to OPS to or back to your COY office, again and again
6. keep the drive up,


----------



## punkd

Wright said:
			
		

> 2. However, they are understaffed, way to many people, what was the latest count, something like 550 members i heard, to many people for the 15 NCOs that they have on staff, and that is being generous.



What can they possibly organize when they can barely get weekend leave passes back for everyone. It's a definite staffing problem and I don't see it getting much better unless they can get some more nco's in there to help.  But at the same time, I don't see why they dont get the 100 or so troops that just sit around all day at T83 to help orgainize as well.  ???


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

I have never been to Borden, let alone PRETC, but if the problem is a lack of NCOs, maybe that is because of these things called Operations.  Like, say all the TFs that are just returning, taking over, and training for the next roto.

I am sure the NCOs at PRETC are letting the CoC know they are short, and most likely the CoC has acknowledged this, and told them the NCOs are needed elsewhere worse.

I am not sure about this AWOL for 3 weeks and nothing being done.  I have a friend who was AWOL for 2 days and I am assuming he is in cells, cause I haven't heard from him since he got his RDP.  

Anyways, like I said, just a shot in the dark,  I am sure there is an NCO from Borden/PRETC who could wade in and provide some info.

Cheers

Mud


----------



## Jinpa

Hi There,

The original poster is not too far off.  The problem is definently understaffing.  Mcpl Pronovost god bless him is one of the best PRETC
staff there and he'll be the first to admit, that they are WAY understaffed.  Shitpumps flourish there for sure, the problem being that alot of the people that end up there are coming fresh from BMQ and this is the first chance they have to relax and not get yelled at for lint on the collar.  

I agree that more training could take place, like the 4 day winter op that took place in late Feb (can't remember the name of it) it was fun, but took alot of the staff away for 4 days.  which left whoever remained in PRETC with even more work.  

Morale is low, because PRETC is a revolving door, absolutely no unit cohesion is present at all, and the fact being noone's there long enough to form any anyway.  PRETC is a good idea and could definently benefit and maybe even flourish with about 15 more NCO's.  

As for the AWOL, I have personally seen it (not 3 weeks mind you, but upwards of 2-3 days) and the punishment usually consisted of doing weekday or weekend duty.  For all those that haven't done PRETC duty, it consisted of sitting in the TV room all night watching movies or playing video games (BIG screen TV's btw).  Then you get to sleep all day and miss the parades and useless stuff that goes on during the day.  Most times shitpumps prayed for duty, cause it was alot more fun than anything that went on during the day.  

Overall, PRETC is somewhat like the theory of communism - Great on paper, doesn't work so well in practice.

Cheers
Jinpa


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

I guess the point I was trying to make was...they are probably aware that there is a shotage of NCOs and it is because they have to prioritize where they go, and what they do, and it would seem something else was deemed a higher priority...

Again, call it an educated guess on my part, I am not there...


----------



## Meridian

I could be way out of my lane here, so please correct me if Im wrong, but:

Isn't the reason for this "unit"s existence because there is not enough room in the training system to get these guys on their MOC courses?

If so, then isn't the reason the CF can not run more courses because primarily we do not have enough staff capable of running them?  

If so, then would'nt pulling more NCOs off to run this glorified PAT unit mean LESS staff available to actually run the additional courses and get these guys into qualified boots?

Again, maybe Im misinterpreting the purpose...


----------



## George Wallace

Meridian said:
			
		

> Again, maybe Im misinterpreting the purpose...



I would speculate....Yes you are!

You are way outside your Lane.

It does exist because there is not enough room at the time in the training system to get these guys MOC courses, because they have arrived too early or too late for those courses, or the courses are already filled.

Yes you are correct to say that the CF can not run more courses because primarily we do not have enough qualified staff, nor for that fact facilities and equipment, to qualify these guys.

You are totally wrong in assuming that the NCOs who are administrating the 'glorified PAT unit' mean LESS staff available to actually run the additional courses and get these people qualified, as many of those NCOs may not be qualified to TEACH.  They do relieve the strain on those who are, by being Administrative, in managing pers awaiting Crse.

As the never-ending cries for the 'Peace Dividend' slowly slashed away at the strength of the CF and reduced Bases, Equipment purchases, Upgrades, etc., the cost of such practices over the past fifty years have finally come home to roust.

If you don't see the problem, then let's try this analogy:  A University has had it's Tenured Teachers/Professors slowly cut back for the past fifty years, and it has seen it's infrastructure reduced by 75% in that time, leaving it with far less facilities and qualified Professors than it had in 1950.  Now it has doubled it's student intake in one years time and can't place all it's students into classes, so it has the Administrative Staff keep them occupied until there are openings in Classes that will start up at a later date.  Would you then say that the Administrative Staff are in any way Professors and should be teaching classes to these students awaiting classes, in say....perhaps..... an open Football Stadium?


----------



## Meridian

Thanks George. Points noted.

Though I am curious;  how much of the "training strain" is personnel related vs. equipment or facilities?  
From the civilian taxpayer point of view, media reports (and to be fair, a lot of the comments on here) seem to refer to it being more of an OPTEMPO related thing...   e.g. the facilities and the equipment can more or less be easily found if the training (and related admin support) exist to activate it all.

Put another way, how much of PRETC is really something we have always needed and never done, and how much of it is a stop-gap measure to do something with all of the staff coming in from a rapidly accelerated recruiting process and a training system that needs to catchup?


----------



## George Wallace

It is a combination of "All the Above".  The Liberals closed down the second Recruit Base (Cornwallis) in their reduction of the Forces in the 1990s.  Borden has been tasked to catch the overflow from St Jean in the business of Recruit Training.  Many of the 'Purple Trades' lost their upcoming NCOs in the 1990s to FRP, another Liberal plan to bring about Force Reduction (Plan).  Without those Purple Trade NCOs to advance and gain experience there can be no pool to draw instructors from when OPTEMPO requires them to be in Theatre.  An Infantry NCO can be sent to the Schools to Administer a group of PRETC/PAT/etc., but (s)he can not teach them a 'Purple' Trade.


----------



## Meridian

Gotcha, thanks.


----------



## Cloud Cover

George Wallace said:
			
		

> An Infantry NCO can be sent to the Schools to Administer a group of PRETC/PAT/etc., but (s)he can not teach them a 'Purple' Trade.



Unless, of course, rock painting is a purple trade.


----------



## Wright

The thing is is that there are enough NCOs, it is the fact that the Nvos there where enuf guff from everyone higher that no-one wants it, 
and they are all reservists NCOs there. i really think that they should look into the schools havin their own pats like cfsait dos, cfsait has half the troubles if not less then PRETC


----------



## scotty884

I've been there a week and I had to use up my accumulated leave to get out of there.  I'm an OT and I felt degraded there.  I got almost 6 yrs in and well I'm treated like a cornflake.  Yes disicipline is missing there, HUGE, last time our coy "marched"  they actually walked, talked, SMOKED, and had spits while marching.  I tell ya if this is the product of what is to come we are all in for a bad situation boys.  Alot of these people tryin to keep a grip on them are over worked and under manned.  I give the staff complete credit, they are doing what they can with the bunch of idiots they have down there.  I actually felt ashamed of our training system, for the first time.  I dont think they teach what those hero's in the world wars did so we can wear the uniforms we wear.  FOR CHRIST SAKE U WEAR THE FLAG ON YOUR LEFT SHOULDER, start serving it.  Again I dont think the staff is at fault here.  I praise there efforts with wat they got.


----------



## NiTz

I' ve been there for 4 months before christmas and guess what? I'm getting back there in 2 weeks! Not only PRETC is lacking organization and disclipline, but it's also a morale downer for the troops. Think about it : wasting your time AWAY from your family to WAIT for a course that "maybe" will start "soon". Everyone that has been there can tell you : they (the staff) have no clue of what's going on. It's not completely their fault : they have so many people to take care of! They just walk out of their office and 5 or 6 people grab them to ask questions about their course. They cannot give answers to the troops as to when their MOC course starts, when they'll go on SQ, etc. because they don't have the answers themselves!

I waited 1 month for an appointment and they've lost 6 of my memos over there. That's insane! How can someone lose 6 memos??? Guess what? I had to go see a Padre and complain and I got my appointment in the next hour... I'll tell you more. I'm in Kingston right now, and I have 1 whole year of waiting before my next course (no instructors available to teach me my trade!! ). I tried to push a memo from kingston to have an OJT (My wife is in Montreal) and they refused it! They said they want to keep "control" of OJTs. So this is going to cost the DND 2 travel claims instead of 1! I could have gone directly from Kingston to Montreal, saving 1 claim and lots of time to the NCOs in PRETC! It's this kind of stupid decisions that make PRETC troops unhappy and that's understandable from my point of view. And the worst part is that i'm gonna have to go to Borden (7 hours drive from my wife) to fight all week to get this OJT because they're so busy they won't have time to process my memo (that is if they don't lose it).

Here's my suggestion : why don't they send the troops directly on OJT at a unit near their home for the time they have to wait? The member would then get a sheet of when his courses start, and then report to whatever base the course is given at, and that's it! PRETC is not a bad idea itself, but it doesn't work, and it will never work! There will always be shitpumps, and there will always be troops like me that polish theirs boots, are up to standard and never missing work that will pay for the said shitpumps that stay in bed in the morning instead of reporting for work.

And according to my friends that went to CFSATE PAT, it is not better than PRETC at all... sitting in a cafeteria all day playing cards, WITHOUT having the right to go to the gym or even go for a run...

So whatever you do, try to stay away from pat plt at all costs!

Cheers! 

Nitz


----------



## George Wallace

:crybaby:

Absolutely brilliant.  As if there was a military base near Weyburn, Sask.; or Thunder Bay, Ont.; or Trout Creek; or St Louis de Ha Ha; or Dawson Creek; or where ever some new recruit comes from........Thinking only of yourself..... :crybaby:


----------



## NiTz

George, i'm just trying to find a solution that may help them out there.. would'nt you prefer an OJT instead of sitting and waiting all day? I know that they can't send people directly to their towns if there is no military base around...But maybe getting closer would be better than staying in Borden.


----------



## big bad john

Self centered thinking.  George hit it on the head.  Suck it up lad.  Being a Soldier is about going down the easy path All l the time.  Sometimes you have to make a sacrifice.  You don't always get to know why either.  So be a Soldier and do the best job you can, with what you've got, WHERE they put you.


----------



## George Wallace

How many things have already been pointed out on this subject in this and other topics.  It has been discussed and reasons put forward for the problems and why they are there.  It is a very sad fact of life, and unfortunately some are like you in the most extreme case of the problem.  I am sure that someone in the Training System is trying hard to solve the problem.  Then again, perhaps changing Trades may be an option too.  

Personally, I think you guys on PRETC should be taken up to Meaford and put through a SQ Crse while you are waiting.  Get that over with and also give you some very valuable Cbt skills that you may need to save your life.


----------



## NiTz

I do my best everyday and i'm very satisfied with my trade. Good idea about the sq tough, it would be valuable for air Force and navy personnel as well.
My post was just to give an example of what's happening there, and believe me it was not intended to be self-centered. And I know that being a soldier is not easy but we can still try to do something to improve our comfort a little.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

Wright said:
			
		

> The thing is is that there are enough NCOs, it is the fact that the Nvos there where enuf guff from everyone higher that no-one wants it,
> and they are all reservists NCOs there. i really think that they should look into the schools havin their own pats like cfsait dos, cfsait has half the troubles if not less then PRETC



Whats the point of them being Reservist NCOs, being that you have oh less than a year and are not even MOC qualified, your experience on the matter is....what?

There are good AND bad NCOs, weak AND strong NCOs in both the Regular AND Reserve Force.  Its not the uniform Wright its the people in it.  Wouldn't you agree?

Spell check is a good idea too.  Oh, and there is a bigger picture that might be causing this problem, remember what rung on the ladder you are at.  

If CFSAIT has less problems maybe the troops there are more discplined and have a grip on themselves.  NCOs aren't the blame here.  Reg OR Reserve.

I love when people who don't understand the problem have all the solutions... :


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

Crafty884 said:
			
		

> I've been there a week and I had to use up my accumulated leave to get out of there.  I'm an OT and I felt degraded there.  I got almost 6 yrs in and well I'm treated like a cornflake.  Yes discipline is missing there, HUGE, last time our coy "marched"  they actually walked, talked, SMOKED, and had spits while marching.  I tell ya if this is the product of what is to come we are all in for a bad situation boys.  Alot of these people tryin to keep a grip on them are over worked and under manned.  I give the staff complete credit, they are doing what they can with the bunch of idiots they have down there.  I actually felt ashamed of our training system, for the first time.  I don't think they teach what those hero's in the world wars did so we can wear the uniforms we wear.  FOR CHRIST SAKE U WEAR THE FLAG ON YOUR LEFT SHOULDER, start serving it.  Again I don't think the staff is at fault here.  I praise there efforts with wat they got.



You are aware of the 4 types of discipline involved in the military?

Imposed is one...group is one (conforming to what the group does, not blanket parties) and another one is SELF-DISCIPLINE.  Doing the right think.  Doing what you are supposed to because you KNOW you are supposed to.  Stuff like that.  I have never seen a Coy march and walk/talk/smoke and all that, but consider yourself lucky I wasn't on the base and driving by.  Some of us Reserve NCOs have good ideas to solve problems like that.  Same as our Regular Force fellow NCOs.

If people have lots of SELF-DISCPLINE, you don't usually have to worry so much about the imposed.  Sounds to me like one or two punks need to be made an example of, and that is called a deterrant.  And a fair warning.  And it has worked in the past.

Never allow someone's low standard to be an excuse for adopting one yourself.  Period.

Get a grip troops.  Christ almighty.

Edit - Not directed at you, Crafty884...but at the morons you are speaking about.  I wanted to make that point clear it wasn't you I was spearing that one at.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

NiTz said:
			
		

> George, i'm just trying to find a solution that may help them out there.. would'nt you prefer an OJT instead of sitting and waiting all day? I know that they can't send people directly to their towns if there is no military base around...But maybe getting closer would be better than staying in Borden.



I can't believe the posts in this thread.  MILITARY!  MILITARY!  Thats what you are in.  This isn't friggin' the Student Council at your high school lads!

OJT?  Are you MOC qualified yet?  No?  What would you do OJT on if you know SFA yet?  Fix radios that people need to work and mess them up?  Planes?  Trucks?  Weapons?

And the whining and bitching..."my memo got lost" "i am too far away from home" "my bum hurts" and all that crap.

Watch the news.  See THOSE trooops ?  The ones in the desert cam over in that Afghanistan place?  55 degrees Celcius...body armour on... ambushs, attacks, IEDs, suicide bombers, desert creatures, heat exhaustion, danger-close fire, humping FULL kit...FULL kit.  water.  rats.  ammo.  pers kit.  platoon/section kit.  

Now ask yourself how many of them come on here and whine and moan and all the crap that has been posted in here.

Get it?

You joined the military...sometimes referred to as "the service".  The service of what?  CANADA.

   start acting and thinking like you are "in the service".  Thats what you signed up for, isn't it?  To serve?  Or be served.

Yes, PRETC sounds like a shitty go.  Its TEMPORARY and no one is SHOOTING at you.  So...could it be worse?  Yes its not perfect AND it probably is not the most important aspect of the CF these days, which is likely why it is not being thrown more resources.  Suck it up!  You get to eat, wash, you get paid...yes it sucks to wait.  Get used to it cause life is like that.  Waiting is good sometimes.  Learn to appreciate it.

Set a high personal standard.  Make the best of it you can.  Make some friends.  Pray for your fellow soldiers fighting for their lives.  Make the best of the situation. Canadian soldiers are not world-reknown for standing around bitching, they are known for getting the job done and making the best of it.  

And be patient when you memo gets lost.  It could be worse.

Part of what has made me get thru crappy time the past 17 years is always finding the positive side of a bad go.  "I am getting paid for this!"  "This is pensionable time!" "The taxpayers pay for my clothes and boots!".  And a sense of humour.  If you think life in the military is perfect and flawless outside PRETC, guess again.  You know what?  There are 2 types of people;  ones that are part of the *problem*, and ones that are part of the *solution*.  Think quickly.  You know already which one you are.  If its the first one, change that.  Someday you may be an NCO.  Your officer not only want to hear the problems, he / she is looking to you for potential solutions.  Otherwise its just bitching.

One of the most vivid memories I have always had was what was in big black letters on the Drill Hall in Basic Training when it was in Cornwallis Nova Scotia....

*"Learn To Serve"*


----------



## big bad john

I've always said that it is nice to have a competent Sgt around.  Thank you Stan.


----------



## SIG MITCH

STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT!!!!! IF ITS THAT BAD GO BACK TO ST. JEAN AND WAIT ON PAT PLATOON THERE!!!

I spent 8 months there back in 2003, with my wife in Gagetown. I didnt bitch once about it, its all pensionalble time so who cares!!!!
We did things like a march to meaford in January, that killed off 8 or 9 days. It also stopped alot of people from whining about being bored!
Dont leave it all up to your staff to think of things to do.... Put some Ideas up yourself, for instance a comms exercise, get some radios and wander
around the base, let the SigOps practice there VP (I know there is a bunch of old CANSUP 1B books sitting around). How about forming everybody up each day and letting each person practice calling drill, that will kill off some time. Your staff isnt there to babysit you, take some initiaitive.
Just a thought


----------



## MightyMouse

I am going to Borden October 13th as a Cpl. to do three months on PAT Platoon.  Do they utilize Cpls on PAT platoon to assist in organization?


----------



## Shamrock

Yes.  You will be organized into a work party.


----------



## vanislerev

CPLs on pretc have no more responsibility than the rest of us, they just tend to be the ones stuck with "marching" us around, especially if you are PLQ qualified, im guessing your only a cpl seeing as you are MP from the looks of it, and have not done your 3s yet, your just like us... welcome to the club :brickwall:


----------



## gazingatmars

I have just finished basic, and am returning to Borden in Jan to wait for word on my next course date, be it SQ or Poet.  Any advice on courses I can take or things I can accomplish while on PRETC?  I am not sure what to expect. I hope I'm not waiting there too long. Any advice or experiences with PRETC would be welcome!

Thanks! Merry Christmas!


----------



## MikeL

I dunno how much PRETC has changed since I left; when I was there, for the most part we did f*ck all, due to lack of staff/too many Ptes/OSs attach posted in, etc. Lucked out a few times on got to do a week of rapelling, an since I had 404s I got to drive a fair bit. For day to day stuff you might do PT once or twice a week, but its a joke for the most part. If you wanna stay in shape, you gotta do it on your own time. If your lucky you can get tasked out an actually do something, if not.. well its a lot of sitting around doing nothing, some drill an two inspections a week.


----------



## Zombie

MikeL said:
			
		

> I dunno how much PRETC has changed since I left; when I was there, for the most part we did **** all, due to lack of staff/too many Ptes/OSs attach posted in, etc. Lucked out a few times on got to do a week of rapelling, an since I had 404s I got to drive a fair bit. For day to day stuff you might do PT once or twice a week, but its a joke for the most part. If you wanna stay in shape, you gotta do it on your own time. If your lucky you can get tasked out an actually do something, if not.. well its a lot of sitting around doing nothing, some drill an two inspections a week.



Agreed with all of the above, especially the sitting around doing nothing. Don't wait to be lucky to get on a tasking, keep letting your MCpl or Sgt know you want on one, and be there when they ask who wants on a tasking which is usually at the end of the day at dismissal. I got on a 6 week tasking and I still think that's what made my time on PRETC somewhat bearable. You'll probably do SQ while on PRETC, either in Meaford or Gagetown, which will be the best thing you do while on PRETC.

Here's a good link for more info http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49338.0.html


----------



## gazingatmars

Hi Guys,

I just finished BMQ, and I am joining PRETC in January, for God knows how long. Are there courses in Borden one can take? Ones that are a week, 2 or 3 long? We must take a proactive approach to our career, right? Like, is BDT offered in Borden, or other basic-something training courses? Should I talk to a career cousellor, or will my direct supervisor be able to answer my questions?  And if I request some better kit be issued to me, will I get it? Like Boots and Jackets...?
Thanks! Merry Christmas!


----------



## scotty884

UFI  I was there in august as a CPL, OT from Artillery.  I did just like buddy said earlier, I marched them, other than that I was pretty much a no hook private in there eyes.  Take the advice from above, just grin and bear it I hated it too.  But its better than bullets over your head or in it at that huh?


----------



## gazingatmars

Ya, but what I want to know is if there are any short courses available to take in Borden while in PRETC...


----------



## MikeL

If needed for your QL3 you will be put on your Driver Course. Aside from that, I dunno if they run any sort of courses.

An yes, you can do kit exchanges in Borden. I think PRETCs Clothing Sotres time is Wednesday afternoon. Dont expect to get ICE kit, small packs or anything like that though.


----------



## gazingatmars

Thanks!


----------



## Sparkplugs

I've spent the last 2+ months on the CFSATE version of PRETC, and you can whine all you want, but it doesn't change anything.  Try to get taskings, that's all I can say.  At PRETC, there are better opportunities for taskings, try and get on them!  People like to complain, but when the Sgt or Mcpl comes into the room and says, "Okay, I need 6 people for a tasking!" everyone starts ducking their heads or suddenly has to visit the MIR.  I've seen it happen.  I don't care if the tasking involves an hour of moving furniture, or 3 weeks working in supply, do it!  Keep yourself busy!

I've tried to get on some french training, or my 404 course, to no avail.  Tried to get OJT somewhere too, even if it's just sweeping hangar floors.  Nope.  I tried, used memos, CoC, nothing.  I got pretty lucky, and I start course when I get off my xmas leave, but all I can say is keep trying.  I would have loved to go do SQ while waiting, but being in the air force, I don't get to.  

And I know of a few really wicked awesome taskings that have come out of PRETC in the last couple months.  4 people got to go on 'night shift' and play in all kinds of situations for all the new MP's to react to.  12 people got to go to Petawawa and do the same thing for the JTF training.  PRETC gets to go to the range on occasion.  They get to go on marches, they get more PT, the change to go out running, or to the gym...  We at CFSATE don't get any of that.  Our taskings are usually moving furniture at the 16 Wing HQ, or sorting mail.  But you do them so you don't go nuts doing nothing.  Yes, we end up playing a lot of cards, watching a lot of movies.  But come on, really?  Where else is going to pay you to do that while you're waiting to start work?  Yes it's boring.  SUCK IT UP, CUPCAKE!  There are way worse things you could be doing.  Cleaning toilets, working at McD's...  grow up guys, deal with it.  They're doing everything they can to get us trained, and there aren't too many easy solutions here, so you have to take the responsibility and make the best of it.  It's not forever, relax.  Just volunteer to go do stuff, don't wait around for 'the good ones' and then complain.

edited for spelling.


----------



## gazingatmars

I wasn't whining.  I was asking for information on courses and kit exchange.  I was prepared to be attach posted on PRETC.  Sorry you didn't get to take the courses you wanted. Also, I'm pretty sure most of us know our situation is better than cleaning toilets or working at McDonalds, or we wouldn't have worked so hard to get here.  You shoud tone down the rude, holier than thou attitude in your posts.  There are ways to get your point across without insulting others.

Thanks to everyone who posted their advice and knowledge about PRETC.  Now I know a little more than nothing about what to expect in January.  Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!


----------



## Sparkplugs

gazingatmars said:
			
		

> I wasn't whining.  I was asking for information on courses and kit exchange.  I was prepared to be attach posted on PRETC.  Sorry you didn't get to take the courses you wanted. Also, I'm pretty sure most of us know our situation is better than cleaning toilets or working at McDonalds, or we wouldn't have worked so hard to get here.  You shoud tone down the rude, holier than thou attitude in your posts.  There are ways to get your point across without insulting others.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who posted their advice and knowledge about PRETC.  Now I know a little more than nothing about what to expect in January.  Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!



And perhaps I wasn't talking to you.  But in this thread, there were many, many posts that consisted of "WAH WAH WAH" and not much else.  I didn't intend to be holier than thou, because I know I'm not.  I'm in the same situation, but I feel that we are the small fries of the military.  I understand why my kit is crappy... because there are people in the military who need it way more than we do.  That's all.


----------



## Meridian

Good advice from everyone.

My very worthless .02$

1) Its good to vent.... sometimes people on army.ca forget that.

2) Its good to raise things; even in unconventional formats, and especially when people in the know can take that feedback into consideration and feed it into where it matters for the future

3) Raising things doesn't mean bitching about them... things are a certain way for a reason - it doesn't mean they can't change for the better over the long haul, but whining never gets your point across, its just whining.


----------



## punkd

hah, I remember my first day on PRETC they gave us the big speech on how they know theres not alot for us to do but we are not here to push brooms and pick up garbage.

.. By the end of  day 1 we had already done a garbage sweep! (not joking either! haha)

But anyways as for courses, you will only get the ones you need for your trade training (Ex, airbrakes, LSVW, BDT) 
If these are not mandatory for your trade you most likely will not get on them because they need the room for the people who need them.

Taskings are basically the only thing you can get (unless your there for more than 3-4 months you can apply for EWAT) some taskings are good, some are not so great. 
They never really tell you what they are for at first, they just ask for volunteers so its really hit-or-miss. Although for the most part they are better sitting around on PRETC
all jokes a side people literally slept all day in the student break trailer, just moving for role calls.

The downside of it really is that you cannot do your own PT or much of anything when your just sitting around all day, it would be great if they had let us go to the gym or go for a run. But nope, you sit around T-83 all day long, because of the people that just leave and go do what they want they need to be able to keep track of everyone.

As for Clothing stores there, its kinda hit or miss some days they will give you almost anything you want, other days they won't give you a thing! And make sure you are clear with them you want it as permanent issue and not a temp. loan or you might have some issues clearing out as I did. Fun when your kit has already been shipped off.  :-\


----------



## gazingatmars

Hey that's great! All the info I needed! 

Thanks!


----------



## Wingman

One thing that really alarms me is the reception that some have gotten from their inquires about how to make the most of PRETC or (gasp!) improve it.

I really hate the "suck it up", "because I did it" or "that's the way it is" responses to valid questions.  If it really was a "'cause I don't wanna" attitude then fine and there is a time to just suck it up and soldier on but .... PRETC is a waste of time PERIOD.  We talk about how we need more people and yet hundreds languish there doing next to nothing.

There are worse jobs we could be doing but that attitude is going to lose us valuable people that can easily move to Alberta and make 2 or 3 times more, be challenged and not sit around all day waiting for the rocks to dry.  I talked with an HR friend at Xmas in Calgary and he didn't know how to attract employees because when he started people begged him for a job at the company (he was used to getting his behind kissed) but now he has to work to attract employees.  Same with the CF, if you want to retain good employees, you've got to start thinking of them (hmmmm, isn't that one of the ten principles of leadership!!)


----------



## aesop081

Wingman said:
			
		

> We talk about how we need more people and yet hundreds languish there doing next to nothing.



What would you do with them then ?



> (hmmmm, isn't that one of the ten principles of leadership!!)



Alot of us here have been doing this alot longer than you, be careful who you lecture on leadership.


----------



## Meridian

though, cdnaviator - while experience does count for a whole lot, innovation is often brought about by people who do -not- do things the "old" or "routine" way.
It doesn't mean experienced people can't innovate, but it can often be harder for them to.

Now, whether innovation in all aspects of the military is a good thing; thats an entirely different issue.


----------



## aesop081

Meridian said:
			
		

> though, cdnaviator - while experience does count for a whole lot, innovation is often brought about by people who do -not- do things the "old" or "routine" way.
> It doesn't mean experienced people can't innovate, but it can often be harder for them to.
> 
> Now, whether innovation in all aspects of the military is a good thing; thats an entirely different issue.



My point was that while new people cant quote the principles very well....they are rarely experienced in their application........and should thus be careful throwing around comments like his.

Now...back to PRETC........If its a problem...lets hear some solutions ? what do we do with people waiting for training ?


----------



## Meridian

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> My point was that while new people cant quote the principles very well....they are rarely experienced in their application........and should thus be careful throwing around comments like his.
> 
> Now...back to PRETC........If its a problem...lets hear some solutions ? what do we do with people waiting for training ?




Point taken.  Again, back to the discussion... what do we do... and really; in the end, is it worthwhile to enroll all these people for them to use up 1/3 of their Initial Engagement sitting around sweeping hangar floors?   

I'd also be curious to know just what the real numbers are... how many people are getting courses they can use in their careers, and how many people are just sitting around whining because its the easiest thing to do?


----------



## navymich

It's been discussed before in other threads the reasons for the hold-up for courses: lack of training/classroom space, lack of instructors etc.  So it doesn't sound like that is going to get them moving off of PRETC any faster.  But what can they be gainfully employed doing then?  I mean, sure, you can get familiar with your trade, but you're always told to unlearn what you've learned when you get to your 3's.

A solution would be to slow down recruiting, but that has been proven to get people frustrated as well, and simply give up on the process.  So now you have them sitting in PRETC, BMQ qualified and waiting and waiting.  I've never been in the situation, so I can't think of what they could be doing instead, but I am curious to some ideas that must be floating around in the gray matter out there.


----------



## aesop081

For the record...."know your men and promote their welfare" does not always mean "give the troops what they want"


----------



## rmc_wannabe

I too will be one of the recent add ons to PRETC after Christmas leave and this is the most insight I have received about PRETC. It doesn't thrill me that I'm going to be going on PRETC, but hearing that there are taskings and things to do makes me a little less weary of PRETC. 

As for solutions; I'm too new to the military to understand the whys ( and know all to well not to ask them), but it seems that when i was recruited and those that followed, the demand for the trades offered were greater than the spots availible at the schools. So the question is: which route to take? Slow recruitment to a reasonable pace that the school can handle...or increase the schools capacity of students. 

 Both will take at least (and this is a moron's guess) 15 or so years to establish effectively...so looks like PRETC is not going anywhere fast. 

So the 2 options that seem viable are A) suck it up and wait it out like a good soldier or B) Try and change your situation. If you don't like PRETC, take some initiative and keep occupied or bring solutions to your superiors ( risky in itself...but who knows? ???). 

Whatever the case, the CF has provided more than i could ever ask for....and after the numerous shit jobs (some including the first part) i worked before i got here...PRETC is a dream.


----------



## spud

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I too will be one of the recent add ons to PRETC after Christmas leave and this is the most insight I have received about PRETC. It doesn't thrill me that I'm going to be going on PRETC, but hearing that there are taskings and things to do makes me a little less weary of PRETC.



Thought I would re-visit this after starting on PRETC last Monday. I was in for eight years before so my insight comes from one who's been through the process. 

The NCO's at  PRETC have the most patience I have ever seen...period, and they manager to maintain a sense of humor.  For those who are new, think about one thing. Somebody doesn't sign out and goes to MIR. It may take an NCO four hours to track that person down because they have to be accounted for. That's four hours away from the rest of the troops. If you were in their shoes for an hour you wouldn't b!tch about your situation. 

I won't make the "suck it up speech" because for those bitching about being there it doesn't take anyway. I can tell you that with the opportunity for taskings, 2 easy inspections a week, lots of PT and having NCO's and officers who are actually trying to find things for you to do and keep you occupied (contrary to what you think they have your best interests in mind)  PRETC is not a bad gig at all. 

Perspective...I saw nobody at PRETC having to bathe with baby wipes or getting shot at....it could be a lot worse. 

Once your courses start I guarantee things won't be so easy so enjoy it and try to get something out of it. 


spud


----------



## DiverDownDee

Hopefully this will not come across as a "Wah wah" .. just curious to know if the rumour is perhaps true.  Do members attending Military Police Academy in near future (2 months) get tasked out to the local MP units at Borden?


----------



## Kurhaus

Canadian_MP said:
			
		

> Hopefully this will not come across as a "Wah wah" .. just curious to know if the rumour is perhaps true.  Do members attending Military Police Academy in near future (2 months) get tasked out to the local MP units at Borden?



If you are an MP awaiting training at PRETC, they will try to get you on a ride-along with the local MP Det or use you as an actor for MP training purposes at the academy.  But since you are part of PRETC, their staff have the final say whether you go or not.  It depends on what training PRETC has planned for you.


----------



## JBP

Well folks, don't know who else is going to be heading to Borden on this Sunday but I'll be there... Reporting in for PRETC, posted to Kingston, atatched to Borden... That whole rigamarole! Going to make the most of it and enjoy the base food again (yes, I love the food actually...) 

Anyone else from this site going???


----------



## Jager

I'm unfornatly working there, well at least, in the OR. Oh what fun. Actually its not that bad, the only advice I can give to anyone is to get a tasking as quickly as possible, dont turn into one of the MIR Commando's or just sit on the floor. Do something and time will pass more quickly, and hey you might just learn something


----------



## Praying Mantis

I'm on PRETC!

I think it's a waste of time, to be honest. What we do: PT in the morning, PT in the afternoon. Haha. Well, I guess that's good for you in a way. And yeah, it's a reallllyyy good idea to get a tasking, or else you'll be pretty bored. Get used to standing in the ranks for a lonnngg time everyday. There are just too many students, and too little staff, for things to get done quickly, so it's just a hurry up and wait forever type of deal. Hopefully, no one has to stay there for more than a few months. I know people who have been there for one - two years already.  ???

Good luck to everyone on PRETC! Hope you start your courses soon and get posted to where you want


----------



## JBP

Yeah when we were dismissed last Thursday, Sgt. *Bleep* said that there were just over 800 people posted in some fashion or another to PRETC, and 51 staff... And most of that is people we don't see obviously... That's just rediculous! They do make a good point of showing that they are doing thier best. Well, I've only been there for 1 week and simply just been doing paperwork for the most part, but I can see the mess it can be... 

I can't wait for this week actually, I'll be able to do something... Going rapelling on Tues with a certain MCpl who is doing a rapel refresher and I volunteered as one of the 5... I'm going to volunteer for everything I can get my hands on, my course (Sig Op) doesn't apparently start until AUGUST.... So I'll be there for awhile...  :-\

Good luck to those joining us, remember - HURRY UP AND BLOODY WAIT!
 :warstory:


----------



## fire_guy686

R215 Pte Joe said:
			
		

> Well, I've only been there for 1 week and simply just been doing paperwork for the most part, but I can see the mess it can be...




Just give it time. You'll really see how big of a mess it really can be the longer your there. Take any taskings that get you away from that bloody place


----------



## aussiechangover

i'm currently there now and will be for probably another 5 months or until i get back on my course. basically you gotta make the best out of what it is. yeah it's not that exciting but my best advice is try to get on taskings as quick as possible or even OJT. on the brighter side if you are BMQ bypass it's a more relaxed way of getting your skills back upto what is required. i've found the staff there helpful in my cases although depends on if you give them a hard time i guess.

and a little message for jager make sure they don't screw up my posting to kingston again :threat: i'm sick of going up them steps to find out whats going on


----------



## JBP

Well, been there almost a month now on PRETC and getting the hang of it... In a manner of speaking... So far I've gone on taskings with the Military Police (Fun!), and Med Techs (QL3 training and a QL5 field ex!) - both were interesting and I learned something from each. Also I went rapelling for the first time on the rappel tower... It really is what you make of it. I've gotten lots of time at the gym and played some sports, worked out. I can't complain that much except I wish my girlfriend was up there with me. And she did come up and visit for 3 days 2 nights...  ;D

All in all, if you want to do things and go places, you can it seems. If you want to sit in the background and be idle and just dissapear/relax and not gain anything from it, you can. There seem to be no in-between people really!

Anyone who IS comming, make sure you bring something for the down time and don't go drinking every night at the H or O Clubs, waste of your money and time and brain cells... A computer is great, so are books, hobbies, working out!

Goodluck,
Joe


----------



## benl

My BMQ finishes Aug 14th and from the sounds of things I'll be put in PRETC for a while, whatever, it's part of the process I get that, and from what I've heard I've definately had worse jobs.  As far as working out goes, I'll take the opportunity every chance I get...I have a light case of hypergymnasia I think!   ;D

Aside from taskings do you have a fair amount of free time to workout?  It would be nice to get 2-3 hours a day (total, but at different times if possible, ex running in am, weights in pm) although I'd be happy with whatever I can get.
Plus what facilities do they have there? i.e. pool, running trails, punching bag, gym?  The rappel tower sounds cool, I hope I get to work that a lil' bit!!  Also are there ropes there (suspended from a ceiling) I would love to rip the lats up with a few up and downs on those bad boys!!

luckystrike: out


----------



## Klc

You will have evenings off, starting 1530-1630 and as long as the week goes well, Friday afternoons. First timing is mostly 7-730, so you could run before that if you want.

In the am, we are usually doing some form of PT in T-83, but its not a choose your own pt kind of thing. Usually a run, 'unarmed combat', PSP directed, or something special like mountain biking.

As for facilities, all of the above. Pool, racquetball courts, gym with indoor track, weight room, cardio room, stationary bike room, outdoor tracks, baseball and soccer fields, running/biking trails... I'm sure I'm missing something - but there is plenty to do to stay fit here.

As was said, its what you make of it... theres some real friggin cool taskings lately... almost wish I wasn't going on course next week. ALMOST. Just don't get sucked into joining the shitepumps.


----------



## benl

Thanks for the info klc.  As long as there is constant PT I personally don't see how it can be all that, "bad/boring/WTF ever".  From what I've got from this thread is that your time spent there is in large part up to you, and the only reason people can't find anything to do is because of the ever dreaded shitpumpism.  Man in all honesty it's not like I'm looking forward to PRETC but if it's an option for an unqualified soldier to better themselves physically, then there's nothing to complain about!!  Your getting paid...fed...clothed and weekends off?!?!?  And your job is to workout, mountainbike, repel and do the odd chores to keep yourself busy.  For the love of god man, that sounds a hell of a lot like highschool to me...which from what I remember wasn't too friggen bad at all...more like some of the best years of my life!!
Shitpumps all go to hell as far as I'm concerned!!! But that's just my 2 c


----------



## Shamrock

luckystrike said:
			
		

> ...As long as there is constant PT I personally don't see how it can be all that, "bad/boring/WTF ever"...



You'll learn.  

As for becoming a pump, it's usually the pumps that are the last to know what they've become.


----------



## punkd

Army News did a report on PRETC
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1_1.asp?id=1809


----------



## Meridian

Uhmm.. Sorry to resurrect after a month, but I just watched that Army News video...  Did he say there were 2 soldiers from PRETC deployed to A-Stan?

My huge *guess* would be that these guys (or gals) were previously MOC trained and are coming back through for a different MOC?  Else, what kind of deployed employability does a recruit untrained have after BMQ?


----------



## canadianblue

I was wondering the same thing, I don't even see the wisdom in sending recruits from PRETC over to Afghanistan. I knew people who were there for a year, year and a half, some really didn't have much of a choice since their courses were so spaced out [LCIS]. 



> You'll learn.
> 
> As for becoming a pump, it's usually the pumps that are the last to know what they've become.



Their was one guy that was there who was on PAT platoon in St Jean for 6 months, and now he's into year three in the CF, and has done no other courses. It's somewhat distressing to see the state of some of the people who decide to stick around on PRETC simply because of the paycheque.


----------



## fire_guy686

After talking with a Master Cpl at PRETC on a tasking he stated for any PRETC troops to be considered for A-stan taskings they did have to be qualified in a previous MOC.


----------



## blacktriangle

Can reservists be posted to PRETC for the summer, if no courses are available for them?


----------



## Spartan

There are always GD positions that you can try and get.
as well as Field Trg, Random course support positions etc


----------



## blacktriangle

Spartan said:
			
		

> There are always GD positions that you can try and get.
> as well as Field Trg, Random course support positions etc



The good old coffee serving tasking in nunavut, yea so I've been told lol.


----------



## Corvin

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Their was one guy that was there who was on PAT platoon in St Jean for 6 months, and now he's into year three in the CF, and has done no other courses. It's somewhat distressing to see the state of some of the people who decide to stick around on PRETC simply because of the paycheque.



That was due to an injury that occured during basic.  That member was waiting for a medical release, I believe he's gone in November this year.


----------



## canadianblue

> Can reservists be posted to PRETC for the summer, if no courses are available for them?



I don't remember any reservist recruits at PRETC while I was there. However I would hope for your sake that they don't send you there. 



> That was due to an injury that occured during basic.  That member was waiting for a medical release, I believe he's gone in November this year.



Good news for the CF.


----------



## MikeL

The only Reservists in PRETC are filling staff positions, doubt theres many positions open there since I saw a lot of the same staff on that video that were there when I was in PRETC.   Everyone else on PRETC is Reg Force pers awaiting their POET or EME Common Course and/or QL3 course.

Sigs Guy, theres a lot of people that have been on PRETC for a couple of years.


----------



## canadianblue

Yeah I know, I think that LCIS is the worst in terms on how long personnel have to stay of PRETC for, I think that some get their QL3's completed only a few months before their contract is up. My own view is that the current system has to be cleaned up and the CF ought to find a way to make the training process seamless so that once one is done a portion of their training they can shortly go onto the next phase with little time in between. At the very least if you are going to have people on holding platoons attempt to put them at bases which are doing their QL3's so they can have an idea of what to expect when their course comes around and can even do duties at a school or possibly at a unit.


----------



## KrissyJ

It really sounds like a lot of you have never even experienced this "battalion of idiots". Try staying there for 12 months being told that you're going to get all these qualifications and get absolutely nothing out of it. Why would anyone who just joined the military have a good mindset about doing crap like that. I was almost ready to release just because of my stay there. It made me wonder if the rest of the military operates like that, and to my surprise some units actually do. PRETC was the absolute most pointless year that I've had in MY LIFE, not only military career. And for anyone that glorifies it has either never stayed there for an extended period, or is an apple polishing piece of crap that the majority of the military despises.


----------



## KrissyJ

Just wanted to clarify that wasnt me, it was my husband. I left the site on the screen and I guess he saw it when he was on.


----------



## George Wallace

KrissyJ said:
			
		

> Just wanted to clarify that wasnt me, it was my husband. I left the site on the screen and I guess he saw it when he was on.



 :  We have heard that excuse before.  It doesn't wash.  Take the time now to admit to something,................... perhaps a SERIOUS SECURITY VIOLATION.


----------



## KrissyJ

You can believe what you'd like, if you read my posts that is not my writing style and also I have no experience in the military or on PRETC, I was in chat last night talking about what my recruiter told me about PAT platoon as he called it, and how there was 800 people on it and not to expect to be home anytime under a year unless I get lucky. As for a security breech or whatever I have no idea. Direct any comments and questions to him if your really concerned. I can get him to make his own account.


----------



## George Wallace

:

It is called "a little bit of INTERNET SECURITY".

Much like giving your friend your Bank Account PIN Number.  Would you do that?


----------



## KrissyJ

If your referring to him using my account, I left it on because I was browsing a thread and then I went out and forgot. This computer is our family laptop, only my husband and I use it so ofcourse I dont feel bad leaving it left on. Did I expect him to come across it? Not really because he has his own computer but he did, end of story. Would I give my friend my bank pin? Ofcourse not, what kind of question is that? Would I give it to my husband, he has it already. Either way it was a mistake, he saw this page, he was interested in reading it and then he decided without talking to me, to post. Done. Delete it if you want.


----------



## George Wallace

KrissyJ said:
			
		

> Would I give my friend my bank pin? Ofcourse not, what kind of question is that?



It is the type of question anyone would ask in the course of investigating a SECURITY BREACH.  You have just proven yourself to have made one.  If you were in a more 'sensitive' position it could be considered very serious.  Now, we are just pointing out your error.  I'll also note, that we have had cause to BAN people from this site for just such mistakes, and/or trumped up excuses.  

Take it as you wish.  It is now Public Record, as many have read this already.


----------



## KrissyJ

Alright I understand what your saying now, at first I thought you were implying it was me and I was making a breech by posting as someone else. Leaving this page on internet explorer and not closing it was my mistake. Did I give my husband my name and password? No, he had no idea this site even existed or that I used it. It was left on by mistake. I have made a security breech by not logging out of the site after each use. I apoligize.


----------



## George Wallace

Chalk it up as a 'Lesson Learned'..........unfortunately the hard way, but they are sometimes the ones you learn the most from and remember the longest.


----------



## Klc

Sigs Guy said:
			
		

> Yeah I know, I think that LCIS is the worst in terms on how long personnel have to stay of PRETC for, I think that some get their QL3's completed only a few months before their contract is up. My own view is that the current system has to be cleaned up and the CF ought to find a way to make the training process seamless so that once one is done a portion of their training they can shortly go onto the next phase with little time in between. At the very least if you are going to have people on holding platoons attempt to put them at bases which are doing their QL3's so they can have an idea of what to expect when their course comes around and can even do duties at a school or possibly at a unit.



This is no longer true - The current wait from Basic - PRETC - POET is less then 2 months. I waited a month and a half, and all the other LCIS on my course waited 2 weeks tops, with some being out of basic for only a few days. 

So, 4 months basic + 2 months PRETC + 7 months POET = 13 months
The QL3 is 6 months long, so add that on and you have roughly a year and a half plus the wait for QL3 - I know some LCIS that are on the 3's that waited a few months, but seeing as we have a 48 month IE 48- 19 months training, you have 29 months of time left over... I've heard horror stories of 2 year waits for training before, but I'd like to think this is the exception to the rule. Keep in mind these are very generous numbers, my Basic to end of poet will be 11 months.

Before anybody says anything about leaving out SQ; for one, it's only 4 weeks as of the last courses going through, and also none of the LCIS students coming on POET were put on an SQ prior to it - There is rumour of doing it pre-ql3, but we have heard rumour down the chain otherwise.


----------



## Wright

gazingatmars said:
			
		

> Ya, but what I want to know is if there are any short courses available to take in Borden while in PRETC...



good luck, as LCIS tech appr. i was informed while at CFSCE on POET that i needed 404's as well as possibly LSVW, unless you are a VEH tech, Sig Op, MED tech, or MSE, the chances of going on a 404 DDC course( two mornings BTW) and writing one or two exams a week later good luck, as for second language, i tried and tried to take a FSL course there to no avail, it wasnt jsut because they didnt want me to, it was mostly because they had no record of me being there as i found out while attempting to get my field pay owed to me on a tasking with NRTD at the start of this fiscal year. I asked about it at the genet OR, they looked into it for me and PRETC returned with an email stating that i was not a member attach posted to PRETC, however i got tasked out to NRTD/CFLRS det Borden and they remembered me b/c i spent over a month in the field manning the CP with the same instructors i had in my own basic three months beforehand


----------



## Wright

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> Whats the point of them being Reservist NCOs, being that you have oh less than a year and are not even MOC qualified, your experience on the matter is....what?
> 
> There are good AND bad NCOs, weak AND strong NCOs in both the Regular AND Reserve Force.  Its not the uniform Wright its the people in it.  Wouldn't you agree?
> 
> Spell check is a good idea too.  Oh, and there is a bigger picture that might be causing this problem, remember what rung on the ladder you are at.
> 
> If CFSAIT has less problems maybe the troops there are more discplined and have a grip on themselves.  NCOs aren't the blame here.  Reg OR Reserve.
> 
> I love when people who don't understand the problem have all the solutions... :



I have nothing against reservist NCO's and yeah my spelling is brutal on the computer, and i know i have no experience to tell an NCO what to do or how to fix a problem, all i can do is have suggestions, there is alot that they can do to improve the way things are done at PRETC, i agree there are alot of shitpumps there at PRETC that do cause alot of grief. but it is so easy for these people to just swing back into the general masses and get out of a three or four day AWOL, you cant really talk about PRETC until you have actually been there. They do do there best to get people on taskings and out of the routine of 3 hours of sitting in T-83 then go for a 2.5 hour lunch then come back to sit in T-83 for another 2.5 hours. For me being a recruit and going right to PRETC, it was a shocker to be going 100mph down to 2mph, the pace of PRETC at the time was slow and lax. I was luckily tasked out for the majority of the time with the MPs and then with NRTD. 
As for the lost paperwork issue, i have mentioned it before and they had no idea who i was, no intake interview, no folder, no nothin on me, all they had was a room number, i had to go see the Padre and find out what POET course i was on, i found out two days before i was to report at CFSCE here in Kingston, while i was on a 24 hour duty with NRTD in the field. All i am saying is that it is easy for people to get lost in PRETC, and the staff needs to drop the hammer down more, because some people do take advantage of the freedom a bit to much. In the beginning of a career in the forces, something such as this can really influence the mindset of some people.


----------



## Wright

Klc said:
			
		

> This is no longer true - The current wait from Basic - PRETC - POET is less then 2 months. I waited a month and a half, and all the other LCIS on my course waited 2 weeks tops, with some being out of basic for only a few days.
> 
> So, 4 months basic + 2 months PRETC + 7 months POET = 13 months
> The QL3 is 6 months long, so add that on and you have roughly a year and a half plus the wait for QL3 - I know some LCIS that are on the 3's that waited a few months, but seeing as we have a 48 month IE 48- 19 months training, you have 29 months of time left over... I've heard horror stories of 2 year waits for training before, but I'd like to think this is the exception to the rule. Keep in mind these are very generous numbers, my Basic to end of poet will be 11 months.
> 
> Before anybody says anything about leaving out SQ; for one, it's only 4 weeks as of the last courses going through, and also none of the LCIS students coming on POET were put on an SQ prior to it - There is rumour of doing it pre-ql3, but we have heard rumour down the chain otherwise.



also increase in POET class sizes, and just slammin serials through, 
i gradutated basic in june, on PRETC until september, graduated POET in april, and on my threes in october, ,  April of 06- approx april of 08, around two years wait time, give or take a few weeks cause of possible course date length changing for LCIS 3's.
you also have to look into the fact of who fails POET, they for some reason have precedence over newer people going into POET


----------



## TN2IC

Wright said:
			
		

> good luck, as LCIS tech appr. i was informed while at CFSCE on POET that i needed 404's as well as possibly LSVW, unless you are a VEH tech, Sig Op, MED tech, or MSE, the chances of going on a 404 DDC course( two mornings BTW)




Try two full days. DDC and SBC reqr before 404's are issued.

Regards,
TN2IC


----------



## Wright

TN2IC said:
			
		

> Try two full days. DDC and SBC reqr before 404's are issued.
> 
> Regards,
> TN2IC



i got the DDC just need to get in and write the ontario supplementary exam, as well as the military exam


----------



## gelan

I really don't know what all the complaining is... I was in 3RCR for 3 years, and really, PRETC and T-83isn't much different from your day-to-day life at S-111 in Pet. Sure it's boring, but just hang out, have fun with the people around you, work out when they give you the opportunity, and just bask in the nothingness that it really is. Soon enough you'll be  going balls to the wall on course, wishing for the do-nothing days of PRETC. Be happy that you get dismissed at 1530 almost every day, and just hang out during that long parade on friday mornings, 'cause you know you'll be dismissed between 1200 and 1300. It's a very good place to meet people, work on your kit, gain experience with the multitudes of taskings they give you. Don't look on your time in PRETC as a negative one, think of the positives you can get out of it, and you definitely will have a MUCH better time.


----------



## mudrecceman

Good points.

I see what people are saying, and PRETC is not the best spot to be but...it could, and most likely will, be worse at some point in time where you will be wishing you were back there.

 ;D


----------



## CF_Lifer

If I did BMQ at St. Jean, and was due for the 14-week course at Meaford, where would I be posted, IF sent to PAT Plt./PRETC? Meaford?


----------



## gelan

If your trade is combat arms(I'm assuming infantry, because you're headed to meaford), you will be in the Meaford PAT platoon, not PRETC. BUT if your trade is something else, like Vehicle Tech, Comms Research, LCIS, Firefighter, Clerk, AVN tech, etc.. You will be posted to PRETC while you wait for your SQ and trades course. Just learn to enjoy it.


----------



## CF_Lifer

Thanks for the response Gelan. And my MOC is Infantry. 
And I'm looking forwards to every minute of it!


----------



## Cdnrednk

If you want to enjoy PRETC, take taskings, any tasking! So far I've been a medical casualty and patient for different med courses, and since I'm waiting for my QL3 med course I took them to learn a bit.
Took an MP tasking where I got to take a few MPs to the ground, act like a drunk and call them any name in the book!
And the last 2 days... well the taskings were so good I can't even talk about em!
It gets  you out of inspections without being a shit pump and it breaks up the monotany of PRETC every day.


----------



## aesop081

Cdnrednk said:
			
		

> If you want to enjoy PRETC, take taskings, any tasking! So far I've been a medical casualty and patient for different med courses, and since I'm waiting for my QL3 med course I took them to learn a bit.



Finaly someone who used his head and did a bit more than sit there and whine.......

good show


----------



## MikeL

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Finaly someone who used his head and did a bit more than sit there and whine.......
> 
> good show



Not everyone has the oppertunity though, atleast back when I was there.. wasn't many taskings at all, limited spots on 'em, lot of people on PRETC, etc During the few months I was there all I got to do was drive someone to a specialist in New Market.. an a week of rappeling(which was a good go) aside from that was nothing to do but sit around.. let it be known that I wanted any taskings, even be duty driver, etc. Yea whole lot of nothing came from that.. just sat around T83.


But apparently PRETC improved an they actually have them doing stuff.


----------



## aesop081

MikeL said:
			
		

> Not everyone has the oppertunity though, atleast back when I was there.. wasn't many taskings at all, limited spots on 'em, lot of people on PRETC, etc During the few months I was there all I got to do was drive someone to a specialist in New Market.. an a week of rappeling(which was a good go) aside from that was nothing to do but sit around.. let it be known that I wanted any taskings, even be duty driver, etc. Yea whole lot of nothing came from that.. just sat around T83.
> 
> 
> But apparently PRETC improved an they actually have them doing stuff.



You know......i have seen alot of PAT type groups in my day.....

Theres the type of people who sit there and wait for work to come their way ( and whine that they dont do anything) and then there are the types who go out of their way to get work. The later type is usualy always busy.  Alot ( i.e. not all ) of those with nothing to do are more than happy to do nothing and bitch about it. Thats been MY experience.


----------



## MikeL

Fair enough; but don't assume everyone who complains about PRETC are just the ones who sit around an do nothing. Like I said back when I was on it, taskins were far an few between an there was limited spots.. competing against the 200+ people there at the time.. kinda hard to get on stuff. Plus they didn't do anything really for the people who weren't on taskings due to the limited amount of staff, PT wasn't even that common an they wouldn't let people goto the gym during the working hours.. had to sit  around T83, etc.  Don't think a lot of people don't try to get on taskings, since it's not the easiest thing to get on. Least from MY experiance.

But yea there were quite a few people who didn't put themselves out an volunteer, etc  Some people loved PRETC.. didn't have to do anything, got a pay cheque, etc


----------



## Jager

I can understand a lot of the problems at PRETC, since I've been there for over a year. I never spent a 'real' day on PRETC. Even when I arrived when tasking where very few and far between all you had to do was ASK, and ASK, etc till they gave you something. Now there are taskings all over the place. Alert, Yellowknife, Gagetown, Wainwright, NRTD, Ammo Depo, PRETC (working clerk jobs), O-125 (Ops, Fin Services, etc), Base Supply, PRETC Supply, the list just goes on and on and on, and not only that there is the possibility for an EWAT if their is a long time till your course. THey now do regular PT (almost every day), at one point in the not to distant past they where doing Hand To Hand combat training, etc.. on Tuesdays and Wensdays, they go to the gym every so often, train with PSP, weights, running.... Its no longer such a 'shat' hole anymore, though there are still the ones whom try to adviod doing anything. At this point there is only 3 People I know of whom have been there for a year or more(and I mean been there), and all but 1 didn't have a choice about the matter.


----------



## justascubadiver

Would anyone know what type of prerequisites courses, or just general courses would be available for someone heading into COMM RSCH while waiting in PRETC?


----------



## gelan

if you're lucky, you may get a driver-wheeled course., but don't counton anything beyond that, as hopefully you won't be hanging around too long. The key is to get taskings, because that will get you out to see a whole bunch of different aspects of the military, and let you see lots of different bases or even cities/towns. Take PRETC for what it is, it's a holding tank, just try and not get pickled by the brine =)


----------



## kas

justascubadiver said:
			
		

> Would anyone know what type of prerequisites courses, or just general courses would be available for someone heading into COMM RSCH while waiting in PRETC?



I'm just finishing up my 4th month at PRETC and there are no prereq or general courses available to Comm Rsch here. There is a math study package you get from PRETC supply though that is to be completed before you go on your QL3 Part 1. On the upside, now that summer is nearly over, it looks like they're going to be starting a Part 1 course just about every month between now and February, so your stay in Borden is likely to be short.

Edit: Actually, if you're here long enough and are an army comm rsch op, you might get sent on SQ while you're here. Some of us end up doing it after our QL3 Part 1 though, just depends on course availability.

To echo the advice above, volunteer for taskings as much as possible. Anything that provides a bit of variety or purpose to your day helps, and sometimes you luck out and get to do something really cool.


----------



## justascubadiver

Thanks that is very helpful information!


----------



## great_white

Are there any Sports or competitve activities (besides the Gym) troops from PRETC  can take part in?  For instance, when i was on BMQ in Borden there was a hockey leauge in which various people on base participated in.  I used the search function, came up with nothing as far as eligability for these kinds of things.


----------



## kingroyce

I've been on PRETC for 3 months now...and yeah it can get really boring sometimes, I have just started doing things to keep me occupied. Volunteering for taskings and doing some really fun stuff. And as for all of the down time I have been able to get in better shape...with more time to rest and workout on my own schedule.


----------



## fire_guy686

great_white said:
			
		

> Are there any Sports or competitve activities (besides the Gym) troops from PRETC  can take part in?  For instance, when i was on BMQ in Borden there was a hockey leauge in which various people on base participated in.  I used the search function, came up with nothing as far as eligability for these kinds of things.



I know PRETC has a hockey team they put in the Base Intersection League. The Hockey is not spectacular but it's a chance to get out and play some puck. I played last year, with another team and had a blast. Playing CFSATE or 400 Sqn was always fun as it usually got a little rough and rowdy. If your there during the winter months I'd suggest playing.


----------



## Biohazardxj

Hi.  I stumbled across this site not too long ago and I have have to say I think it is an excellent resource for our young and older service personal alike.  I have been wearing the uniform for 24 yrs now and I know I would of appreciated this site as a young Private.  I presently work at PRETC (Post Recruit Employment & Training Centre) here in Borden.  I have scanned the forums here for references to PRETC and have noticed several threads relating to it.  Some of the questions posed and the replies they have received have been, in my opinion, a mixture of misinformation, speculation, untruths, or just outdated information.  I would like to see, if possible, a sub board, or a sub sub board under training dedicated to PRETC.  I would be more than willing to watch such a board and put my two cents in when required.  

In case you are unfamiliar with it, PRETC is what we use to call PAT Platoon.  Though that name no longer applies.  We take soldier who have just finished their BMQ, transferred from the reserves, or are recruit school bypass and are waiting to start their trades training.  This includes about 30 different occupations.  At present we have approx 1200 troops at PRETC.  Our goal is to gainfully employ these people while they wait for the QL3.  The large majority, approx 1000, are working in their trade somewhere in Canada.  The remainder, mainly because they are very close to their QL3 start date, are employed in Borden on short term taskings.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## RTaylor

That's pretty nice of you to offer that SGT, I'd love to see a sub board like that ran by someone who has work directly relating to the PRETC, because I know after I'm done basic and waiting for my AVS / POET training I'd love to have info about it.

As a side note SGT, I live close to Greenwood AFB, if I was awaiting trainging in POET / AVS could I request to be stationed there temporarily so I could live with my wife and children? Or do they just toss you to certain bases only.


----------



## Yrys

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> Hi.  I stumbled across this site not too long ago and I have have to say I think it is an excellent resource for our young and older service personal alike.  I presently work at PRETC (Post Recruit Employment & Training Centre) here in Borden.  I have scanned the forums here for references to PRETC and have noticed several threads relating to it.  Some of the questions posed and the replies they have received have been, in my opinion, a mixture of misinformation, speculation, untruths, or just outdated information.



Don't forget also an excellent source of information for civvies .

Could you give some specific examples of the mixture you've found ? 

You can always posted more accurate informations at any times ...


----------



## Biohazardxj

Yrys said:
			
		

> Don't forget also an excellent source of information for civvies .
> 
> Could you give some specific examples of the mixture you've found ?
> 
> You can always posted more accurate informations at any times ...



By civilians, I am guessing you folks who want to join but haven't yet?

I wont give specific examples here because it may lead to confusion on the part of the reader.

I would have posted corrections to those threads but a lot were about a year old and those folks are probably long gone from the training system.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

I would suggest you post away inorder to clear up any errors that are there. Maybe the MODS would then sticky it.


----------



## Yrys

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> By civilians, I am guessing you folks who want to join but haven't yet?



I don't want to join and I'm a civy   ... an interested civy  ;D

Threads a year old shouldn't be taking as good as recents ones. And informations post on a public forum
shouldn't be taking as seriously as those in the officials website .


----------



## Biohazardxj

RTaylor said:
			
		

> That's pretty nice of you to offer that SGT, I'd love to see a sub board like that ran by someone who has work directly relating to the PRETC, because I know after I'm done basic and waiting for my AVS / POET training I'd love to have info about it.
> 
> As a side note SGT, I live close to Greenwood AFB, if I was awaiting training in POET / AVS could I request to be stationed there temporarily so I could live with my wife and children? Or do they just toss you to certain bases only.




Hi RTaylor.  Sadly, 500 series trades await their QL3 with CFSATE, not PRETC.  So I cannot answer that question in your case.  But for those trades we do handle the answer would be yes, provided that you are more than 90 days from the start of QL3, and you have a place to stay near the base that will not cost DND anything in the way of food or lodgings.  For example: If you were a supply tech who wasn't scheduled to start QL3 until Sept, we could send you to live with your wife and work in Greenwood, provided there was job avail for you there.


----------



## aesop081

RTaylor said:
			
		

> I live close to Greenwood *AFB*,




Just for future reference its "14 Wing Greenwood" or "CFB Greenwood"

___________ AFB is not a Canadian thing.


----------



## Biohazardxj

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> I would suggest you post away inorder to clear up any errors that are there. Maybe the MODS would then sticky it.



Good point.  I will research again and post on my findings.


----------



## danchapps

I can vouch for the staff  being fast to find placements for the recruits. While I was recovering from an injury they were able to send me to clothing stores here in Borden while I waited for my 3's to start. It was a great experience for me, and although we are only 4 days in it is already paying off for me by giving me a head up on some of what is going on in the course. I'm glad that there is such dedicated staff helping the post-recruits, however they are much understaffed in my opinion. Although some post-recruits feel "trapped" in the PRETC system, that is not the case for all.


Thank you again SGT for your hard work, and the work of the whole PRETC staff.


----------



## Biohazardxj

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Just for future reference its "14 Wing Greenwood" or "CFB Greenwood"
> 
> ___________ AFB is not a Canadian thing.



I was going to mention that too.   I spent 16 yrs there, I still remember people calling RCAF Station Greenwood.  Actually more than that as it is my home town.  Been there since '71.


----------



## RTaylor

It's all the American's influence rubbing off on my working at a call center for Sprint. Pure scandal if I do say so myself


----------



## Eye In The Sky

RTaylor said:
			
		

> It's all the American's influence rubbing off on my working at a call center for Sprint. Pure scandal if I do say so myself



Call it "CYZX" and impress all the zoomies  

(you can Google "ICAO ID" if you're really bored and/or curious)


----------



## aesop081

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Call it "CYZX" and impress all the zoomies



It will only impress zoomies from Greenwood, the rest of us just call it "the ditch"


----------



## Eye In The Sky

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> It will only impress zoomies from Greenwood, the rest of us just call it "the ditch"


 :rofl:


----------



## armyvern

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> By civilians, I am guessing you folks who want to join but haven't yet?
> 
> I wont give specific examples here because it may lead to confusion on the part of the reader.
> 
> I would have posted corrections to those threads but a lot were about a year old and those folks are probably long gone from the training system.



And some of the staff that posted from PRETC are also long gone from there, and things have changed since their departure.

Things change. All the time. What is accurate info one day, is quite often subject to change the next. It's not limited to PRETC, but can be seen in "entitlements" to various clothing items etc. CAP courses etc etc. Lengths of courses, locations of courses, all change all the time.

What would be one board that's up to date today on PRETC -- would be out of date next week. Moving it to one board isn't going to change that. I personally think it's fine in the "training" board -- that is what it is.

Perhaps though, with you being there now as staff -- you shouldn't be so shy about stepping in to correct errors, note changes, or to post accuracies if someone else who is now removed from there is posting inaccurately. This site survives on members providing timely, accurate, and factual information. If you see something contrary to that -- feel free to step in to correct.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## PO2FinClk

Point to have clarified by staff currently at PRETC.

Last brief/O-Group I received stated that by June 08 "Army PATS" would no longer be posted to PRETC, that CLS TE's would manage them. This seems to be along the same lines as the CAS PAT's who are managed by CFSATE as you have stated. This would then only leave "Purple Trades" for PRETC. Would this reduction in numbers to be managed by PRETC be significant and would the remaining PAT's benefit from this change?


----------



## KuroKuma

Does anyone know the mailing address for PRETC? :warstory: I've been tryna get some mail sent to me but I don't know the address.


----------



## PO2FinClk

BlaqqMuzyk said:
			
		

> Does anyone know the mailing address for PRETC? :warstory: I've been tryna get some mail *sent to me* but I don't know the address.


You've got to be kidding me!? Ever thought of asking your supervisor/CoC, Orderly Room, peers, roommate, buddy, friends, looking at the walls in the quarters, looking in Routine Orders, asking at Canex, Yellow Pages etc etc. Next someone will be asked to spoon feed, sheesh. :


----------



## George Wallace

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> You've got to be kidding me!? Ever thought of asking your supervisor/CoC, Orderly Room, peers, roommate, buddy, friends, looking at the walls in the quarters, looking in Routine Orders, asking at Canex, Yellow Pages etc etc. Next someone will be asked to spoon feed, sheesh. :



What was that joke about the Help Desk operator who told the person to pack up their computer and take it back to where they bought it?

Perhaps we should ask some people to pack up their Kit and return it from where they got it issued?


----------



## rmc_wannabe

George Wallace said:
			
		

> What was that joke about the Help Desk operator who told the person to pack up their computer and take it back to where they bought it?
> 
> Perhaps we should ask some people to pack up their Kit and return it from where they got it issued?



We call those Sys error 18 : error exists 18 inches away from the computer, in the user's brain. Rebooting the problem area is usually required .


----------



## Shamrock

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> You've got to be kidding me!? Ever thought of asking your ... buddy, friends... :



Perhaps absence of those is why he's been _trying_ to have mail sent to him.


----------



## AirCanuck

that's really interesting to hear, (the original post).  Speaking as someone who just finished BOTP at St Jean, I know there is a large stigma surrounding 'PAT platoon' as they are referred to there.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> Point to have clarified by staff currently at PRETC.
> 
> Last brief/O-Group I received stated that by June 08 "Army PATS" would no longer be posted to PRETC, that CLS TE's would manage them. This seems to be along the same lines as the CAS PAT's who are managed by CFSATE as you have stated. This would then only leave "Purple Trades" for PRETC. Would this reduction in numbers to be managed by PRETC be significant and would the remaining PAT's benefit from this change?



I didn't think any Cmbt Arms PATs were going to PRETC.


----------



## danchapps

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> that's really interesting to hear, (the original post).  Speaking as someone who just finished BOTP at St Jean, I know there is a large stigma surrounding 'PAT platoon' as they are referred to there.



There is a massive difference between the PAT Platoon in St-Jean, and PRETC here in Borden. True, most people prefer not to be on either, but one would rather be on PRETC than PAT because PRETC means you are one step closer to your 3's. Also, the stigma of PAT in St-Jean is that it's filled with a bunch of fakers and whiners that don't want to do the work. Now, having not been on PAT there myself I don't know how true it is, however I've seen some people on it, and I really don't think they wanted to do any work. Others on the other hand wanted to be put on platoon as fast as possible so not to fall prey to the negativity that surrounds them. With PRETC there are some that would rather be stuck there and not go on course, but 99% want to be out as fast as possible. Also, as the good SGT mentioned, there are taskings that need to be filled, and those that have a while to wait can ask to be placed on EWOT, so as not to go insane while waiting. As mentioned before, I was very lucky to get on with clothing stores, I felt needed, and I was able to gain some experience in my trade prior to my 3's. I hope this helps clear the air a bit on the differences between PAT and PRETC.


----------



## PO2FinClk

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I didn't think any Cmbt Arms PATs were going to PRETC.


I guess I should of been more specific, obviously not Cbt Arms.

Rather was intended to denote any other Army centric occupation such as EO Techs, Veh Techs, ED Techs, etc etc


----------



## AirCanuck

Chapeski said:
			
		

> There is a massive difference between the PAT Platoon in St-Jean, and PRETC here in Borden. True, most people prefer not to be on either, but one would rather be on PRETC than PAT because PRETC means you are one step closer to your 3's. Also, the stigma of PAT in St-Jean is that it's filled with a bunch of fakers and whiners that don't want to do the work. Now, having not been on PAT there myself I don't know how true it is, however I've seen some people on it, and I really don't think they wanted to do any work. Others on the other hand wanted to be put on platoon as fast as possible so not to fall prey to the negativity that surrounds them. With PRETC there are some that would rather be stuck there and not go on course, but 99% want to be out as fast as possible. Also, as the good SGT mentioned, there are taskings that need to be filled, and those that have a while to wait can ask to be placed on EWOT, so as not to go insane while waiting. As mentioned before, I was very lucky to get on with clothing stores, I felt needed, and I was able to gain some experience in my trade prior to my 3's. I hope this helps clear the air a bit on the differences between PAT and PRETC.




Thanks for pointing out the difference
I think it has a mix at st jean.  I had a good friend of mine, real tough SOB who very nearly broke his ankle on our second last week of BOTP and had to go on PAT until he was better.  He told us that a very high majority of them had stories of chronic injuries or instructors who 'had it out' for them.  However, there are, as I said, legitimate people there too, like my friend.


----------



## danchapps

Yes, there are some that have legit injuries, however there are a lot of MIRC's, which makes it hard for those with real pain. The stigma involved with going to the MIR for an injury causes some to not go to the MIR thus making the injury worse.


----------



## Biohazardxj

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> Point to have clarified by staff currently at PRETC.
> 
> Last brief/O-Group I received stated that by June 08 "Army PATS" would no longer be posted to PRETC, that CLS TE's would manage them. This seems to be along the same lines as the CAS PAT's who are managed by CFSATE as you have stated. This would then only leave "Purple Trades" for PRETC. Would this reduction in numbers to be managed by PRETC be significant and would the remaining PAT's benefit from this change?



Right now PRETC holds "Purple Trades".  There are/have been rumors of Kingston trades (ie Sig Op) going back there and PATs from CFSATE coming to PRETC.  Nothing has been written in stone yet.  The fol trades are at PRETC: (I may have missed a couple)

RMS
Medic
MP
Sig Op
Ammo Tech
MSE Op
Traffic Tech
Supply Tech
ATIS
LCIS
Fire Fighter
Comm Research
Wpns Tech (land)
Lineman
Geo Tech
EO Tech

In answer to your other question.  A reduction of students would only reduce the work load of the staff when it comes to paper work.  The remaining students would not be affected either way by a reductions.  As I stated in an earlier post, our goal is to get the students on their QL3 ASAP or at least employed somewhere in their trade.


----------



## benny88

Chapeski said:
			
		

> There is a massive difference between the PAT Platoon in St-Jean, and PRETC here in Borden. True, most people prefer not to be on either, but one would rather be on PRETC than PAT because PRETC means you are one step closer to your 3's. Also, the stigma of PAT in St-Jean is that it's filled with a bunch of fakers and whiners that don't want to do the work. Now, having not been on PAT there myself I don't know how true it is, however I've seen some people on it, and I really don't think they wanted to do any work.



   Hear hear! Once when I was on duty at the Green Desk (shudder) in St. Jean the Sgt on duty launched into a 15 minute tirade about how I should be concentrating on my training and have the PATs who were gallivanting to the mess take my spot. Somehow he seemed to be blaming me for this lapse of CFLRS policy. :-\ He had some choice words, and his little rampage was nothing short of breathtaking.
   
   Aircanuck is definitely right about the good people who have issues requiring them to be on PAT, but they are a frustrating group for the most part. IMHO, it actually creates a danger, because as Chapeski pointed out, some people tend to gut out injuries that should be getting looked at for fear of being an MIR weeny.


----------



## Klc

RTaylor said:
			
		

> That's pretty nice of you to offer that SGT, I'd love to see a sub board like that ran by someone who has work directly relating to the PRETC, because I know after I'm done basic and waiting for my AVS / POET training I'd love to have info about it.



Of course, you should probably be more interested in info on CFSATE, where you would be on PAT, being an airforce trade...


----------



## danchapps

benny88 said:
			
		

> IMHO, it actually creates a danger, because as Chapeski pointed out, some people tend to gut out injuries that should be getting looked at for fear of being an MIR weeny.



I was reluctant to have my ankles checked out until after my week 12 training was completed for fear of re-course. When I came to Borden I was in quite a lot of pain and had a hard time walking. I almost had a stroke when I was slated for an SQ spot, my fear was becoming a cripple. I was very reluctant to get it checked out for fear of being called a MIRC. In fact one fellow had the nerve to say that while I was waiting transport to physio. Needless to say I had some choice words for him, but I still fear the MIRC stigma, and it seems to be everywhere.

Back to regular programming, the PRETC staff, the good SGT in fact helped find me my placement while I healed, which proved to be an incredible experience. I can't say enough good thing about the staff and the miracles they pull off.


----------



## Neon

Just a little note - numbers at PRETC are closer to 700 now, of those about 100 work on Base Borden in various jobs, the rest are either doing training like Driver Wheeled, SQ, POET, BAEC, CET and so on or employed across Canada on taskings to support training or operational units. Hard Air Trades don't come to PRETC - CFSATE takes care of them.
Some trades do wait longer here than others - this is in part due to the complexity and length of the QL3s and the number of course starts. For example, Geo Techs go off to college each September, so if you get to PRETC in April, you'll wait until August to clear out and go on course. RMS Clerks on the ther hand may arrive one week and find themselves on course less than a month later. It is very fluid at PRETC and things change on a daily basis, but the #1 priority is to get you on your 3s as soon as possible.


----------



## TfcTechAir562

Hey guys! After months of waiting for my component transfer to the RegF to be processed, i've finally recieved an offer letter from NDHQ. Looks like im going to PRETC for a couple of months as Corporal(this shocked me because i thought it was mandatory to drop rank). In searching these forums i've noticed that there doesn't seem to be much info on PRETC. The majority of what i'm reading is that PRETC sucks and that there understaffed but many of these posts are a couple of years old. Anyone currently there or have been there recently? The common verdict is that it sucks but i want a heads up to why? Looking for some good info here.


----------



## 735_winnipeg

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


----------



## JBoyd

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> We call those Sys error 18 : error exists 18 inches away from the computer, in the user's brain. Rebooting the problem area is usually required .



In a few tech support positions I have held in my years many of us would use error codes such as "ID-10-T" or my favorite (and most likely exactly the same as your sys error 18) PEBKAC: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair


----------



## CanadianBigGame

I have been told that I will be spending time in PRETC while i transfer into the airforce, I am going from the infantry of 7 years to ACS Tech. I am worried that I will have to leave my wife and family at home.
My question would be can I get a PMQ and bring my family with me because I will be going on course in borden and it would save time to bring them up. Or do I have to suck it up until my course starts.
Thanks for any information.


----------



## PMedMoe

It will probably depend on the length of your course and if you are actually posted versus being sent on an attached posting or TD.  Do you have a message yet?

From what I understand, people have done it.


----------



## CanadianBigGame

I'm not sure what is going on for I have never changed trades before. When talking with my WO yesterday he said I would be going to borden at attached to PRETC i don't know if this means attached posted or whatever.
I can live without my wife but the course i'm taking is in borden as well and it would be nice to move every thing up there.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

CanadianBigGame said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what is going on for I have never changed trades before. When talking with my WO yesterday he said I would be going to borden at attached to PRETC i don't know if this means attached posted or whatever.
> I can live without my wife but the course i'm taking is in borden as well and it would be nice to move every thing up there.



It sounds like you are being posted to CFSATE, 16 Wing Borden, and then attached posted from CFSATE to PRETC while you wait to be course loaded on your 3's course.

If you are posted to Borden, then you should get a move of your family and HG & E.  Of course, this isn't an "official" answer.   Only your msg will contain the details when it comes in.


----------



## Trueblue

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> It sounds like you are being posted to CFSATE, 16 Wing Borden, and then attached posted from CFSATE to PRETC while you wait to be course loaded on your 3's course.
> 
> If you are posted to Borden, then you should get a move of your family and HG & E.  Of course, this isn't an "official" answer.   Only your msg will contain the details when it comes in.



This is partially correct.

You will posted to CFSATE, 16wing but PRETC is something entirely different.

PRETC is for non-500 series trades, mostly logistic trades.

You will be waiting on PAT platoon before your course starts.

I can't speak for you personally but in my experience the guys coming to CFSATE from the army end up waiting at least a month or so in the shacks before they can get a PMQ for their family so you might want to be prepared for that.

Hope this helps.


----------



## CanadianBigGame

I hope I don't have to wait a month but hell after a tour a month is nothing. 
Thanks for the advice guys. I am looking forward to starting course in borden, just not the waiting.
What the heck takes so long for a CT to go through wow longest wait ever. I thought changing trades would be a few months not a few years. (not really its has been 9 months)


----------



## aesop081

CanadianBigGame said:
			
		

> I thought changing trades would be a few months not a few years. (not really its has been 9 months)



You are doing a CT and changing trades right ?

Let me put it to you this way. I was RegF and remustering to another RegF trade. I hate to wait 12 months to find out if i was even accepted and then 6 months before i could go on my wings course.

You are changing components and MOC so expect it to take a while.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I did a CT with an OT.  Applied in Apr, after all was said and done, I "switched" Feb of the next year.  Straight CTs are quicker, the PLAR process isn't as complicated IIRC.  Remeber, we are also coming off the summer cycle of leave and APS, so...that probably has an influence from a timeline perspective too.


----------



## Trueblue

Cancel last,


just spoke to a couple corporals who remustered to ACS and they both told me it only took them about a week in the shacks before they got a PMQ.

I've also heard it can be hard sometimes if your situation isn't so clear-cut, e.g. common-law marriage and such.


----------



## CanadianBigGame

I am married so it shouldn't be a problem. I hope everything goes as planned. And now im just waiting for my letter. It seems like the whole process took way longer than it should. I have friends who went through basic as a new soldier faster than I could CT.


----------



## Thibeault89

Hey Army forums !

I'm in my last two weeks of BMQ and got my posting this week, very happy that I'm going straight to Kingston on PAT and will be doing my trades qual there also as comm research. I just wanted to know what usally happens to us when we get shipped to our new bases. I've heard most of the time they tell us to take 2 weeks off and what not. I know it's prob different for everyone, if I can get some past experiences from BMQ to PAT would be great thanks alot


----------



## MikeL

Going on leave will be depending on some variables.

How much leave do you have to use up this fiscal year that won't be used up by block leave
If you are going on a course anytime soon

etc

Wait out an you will see what will happen to you.


----------



## psychedelics07

kingston pat requires 6 annual leave days. if you are coming out of bmq you have 14 to use up.


----------



## Thibeault89

So when I get there they make me take at least 6 days leave. Also how does the christmas block leave work out, it's from the 15th of Dec to 5th of Jan I was told, but how many days are took off leave. :camo:


----------



## kratz

Assuming the standard block leave / holiday allowances are granted, it looks like the 15 Dec thru 5 Jan would break down something like this:

11 Annual days
6 Weekend days
3 Stat days
2 Short/Specials
22 days off for block leave total

Remember, this is not official and your unit will have to approve you leave pass.


----------



## Wookilar

Ok, not quite sure where this fits, but this is as good a start as any.

PRETC: What the heck are they up to up there?

I've got the second CT/OT in as many months in front of me. Both are posted to PRETC even though their QL3's are months away (one in Sep, one in Jan). Both have solid offers of OJT in their new trade in their place of primary residence, but they are being refused. Happened last summer as well, 2 offers through my shop and they both ended up on PRETC for ungodly long periods.

Is this PRETC being unreasonable or is it the big giant tentacled thing in Ottawa that is just churning out messages? Both QL3 courses belong to CFSAL if that matters any.

I just do not see the sense in sending someone to Borden, so we can pay them separation pay for X months, so they can sit on PRETC and do nothing as opposed to doing actual trade related OJT. One message indicates a no-cost move while the other does not. Who gets a move for a 2 month QL3? Posting message is to be cut no sooner than 7 days before, so not a lot of time to react. Want to get my battle plans ready now.

Even our RSM is a little ticked at the lack of cooperation we seem to be getting.

Any advice or direction I can point my preemptive bang stick at?

Thanks.

Wook


----------



## Hurricane

Not sure how it is now, however from what I remember PRETC was over populated and under staffed. Your PL IC barely could remember your name. A friend of mine, was sent to PRETC on his re muster from Halifax and within 2 days of being on ground his request for OJE had been approved as he already had a place to stay there (therefore no burden on the training unit to provide room and board). No idea why your requests are denied, but I wouldn't be surprised if once you were there, you got approved to go back on OJE.


----------



## Wookilar

Thanks Hurricane, but I am trying to sort it out before my people have to pack up everything and end up in PRETC unnecessarily.

There are kids and houses involved down here and getting everything riled up because PRETC wants their bodies (but supposedly doesn't want them) 6-8 months before courses starts seems ridiculous to me.

One thing I did notice after rereading the CT/OT messages again, both say that a posting message to PRETC will not be sent no sooner than 7 days before COS date. How the heck gets 7 days notice to move for a course that doesn't start for 6 months?

Anyone else have any insight into PRETC operations?

Thanks.

Wook


----------



## JesseWZ

When I relinquished my commission I was sent to PRETC for 4 months. The only reason I can think of that PRETC possibly _needs_ the member is if there is training required before the QL3 level (SQ, 404's) etc. 

When I was there, I spent my time asking for taskings and going to the gym. I didn't learn anything of value and was maximum supervised the entire time. (Sign in/sign out, no POMV for pers admin, even for appointments) and I spent a lot of time sitting around waiting to be told to go home (slider almost every day.) I hope for their sake that they won't get sent there as experienced members often lose their minds there. It's bad enough being treated at a QL3 level again, but to be treated as a recruit again is frustrating.


----------



## 6V666

Hi guys , just a heads up  PRETC  WILL BE  DISMOUNTED as of  March 2013. This is official.


----------



## PMedMoe

6V666 said:
			
		

> Hi guys , just a heads up  PRETC  WILL BE  DISMOUNTED as of  March 2013. This is official.



Source?


----------



## aesop081

6V666 said:
			
		

> PRETC  WILL BE  DISMOUNTED



I'm pretty sure that "dismounted" is not the word you are looking for.


----------



## PMedMoe

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure that "dismounted" is not the word you are looking for.



Maybe they won't have any vehicles.


----------



## aesop081

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Maybe they won't have any vehicles.



Or losing their horses..........


----------



## armyvern

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Or losing their horses..........



Or they'll be too busy performing CPR on any ex-black hatters in the PRetC midst who will not believe that dismount is an actual word. Sacrilege.  >

_________

Way back when, before my current Unit, the OJTers had to report in to Borden's PRetC (as they officially become their Admin Unit) - even our married guys. We then created tasks for the OJP in our local areas which PRetC filled with the pers whose families were in our area. Quite simply, it covers the PRetC member's ass should anything occur injury/admin-wise as their "owning Unit" has officially cleared them in and then officially tasked them to location X. It also allows PRetC to effect recall of "their" affected pers should any School's timetables for courses change. As it should be.


----------



## 6V666

OK,  how about  they are closing the PRETC .  I am sure you guys  got what I tried to say just being a smart ass. And that is for sure I was told on O group.


----------



## JesseWZ

6V666 said:
			
		

> OK,  how about  they are closing the PRETC .  I am sure you guys  got what I tried to say just being a smart ***. And that is for sure I was told on O group.



Half the stuff I have been told _in an_ O-Group has never come to pass. 

What do you mean by dismounted? As far as I know, PRETC has never been allowed POMV's.


----------



## MeatheadMick

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Half the stuff I have been told _in an_ O-Group has never come to pass.
> 
> What do you mean by dismounted? As far as I know, PRETC has never been allowed POMV's.



I always used my POMV... Just never parked it in the PRETC parking lot  ;D


----------



## DAA

I believe that PRETC was a means of a way to group all the BTL's "Awaiting Training" under one big umbrella as opposed to having each individual school manage them separately, which makes alot of sense.  There is some pre-course training which needs to take place and PRETC manages that on behalf of the training school.

If you have a "valid" case to retain an individual at unit level for employment purposes and or can provide "relevant" OJT in the receptor occupation, as opposed to sending them to PRETC when their QL 3 course is months away, then present it to them.

Keep in mind, that they receive these types of requests regularly and it is the ones that are "hogwash" that result in valid requests being turned down...


----------



## horatio749

6V666 said:
			
		

> Hi guys , just a heads up  PRETC  WILL BE  DISMOUNTED as of  March 2013. This is official.



Anything further on this? I am posted to PRETC in the middle of Feb with my fingers crossed to be crse loaded 2 April. Would love to know.....


----------



## ambernewton04

When my husband was at Borden, he was told that his intake was the last intake for PRETC. This was back in August 2012.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I thought PRETC ceased to exist and PATs went back to their parents school/TE?


----------

