# Colour Vision



## logistik

I just finished up all my testing and apparently I was found color blind. I don‘t understand how I could be since I had no idea untill yesterday. I believe I was found cvs3(not really sure). I took the book test and missed a few numbers so I had to take the little bead test where I had to put the colors in order that were only one shade a part. But the lighting I did this test in was really bad. Could that have contributed? And also she told me to put them all in the thing and then arrange them from there. And I couldn‘t finish. Thus, I left a bunch out of order. And later I found out that they connect the dots and if you cross some X thing you are automatically color blind. Should I retake the test? and also being color blind will this hurt me in being accepted? 
btw I am going infantry


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## combat_medic

You may want to retake the test, it‘s up to you, but colour vision is not required in the infantry. If, however, you ever feel like remustering to something like engineer or artillery, colour vision is necessaary. If you‘re really concerned about it, go to your local optometrist and have him/her give you a full colour test. Just make sure you keep a copy of the results so that you can have it placed on you medical file.


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## Sharpey

Colour blindnsess did not cause problems for me, and I‘m a land force traid as well.


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## azzkikr

What about needing glasses? I don‘t have any right now and I can see fine. But my left eye is kinda going on me. I can see perfect with my right, but when I cover it and just look through my left, it looks a little worse. Ex: When the eye doctor tests my right eye (by covering up my left) and makes me read the letters from that poster accross the room, I can read it fine. But when he tests my left eye, I have some trouble. I can still see stuff fine with it, I just have alittle trouble reading. If I cover up my right eye now and just use my left, I can still read this, it‘s just kinda, not perfect looking. Will this be a problem?


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## Zoomie

As long as you are correctable to 20/20 there should not be a reason why not.  Go and see an optometrist (eye doctor) and get some corrective lenses, that should help.


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## Korus

Don‘t worry about that, you can have glasses and still get in the military.
Once you can‘t read things about a foot in front of you, then you can start getting screwed out of combat arms.


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## nuforc

hello,
do they test you again for color vision deficiency at st jean?
thanx


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## Private Snowball

Colour, not color, this is Canada my boy.


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## combat_medic

When you go through your initial testing to get into the CF, they will do a medical on you. One part of that medical is testing your colour vision. If you have colour blindness of any kind, it will restrict you from certain trades (engineer and artillery for one), but won‘t disqualify you altogether.


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## fusilier955

what would be the vision classification for 20/20 but colour blind?  I never bothered to ask when i got my medical, and i was just curious what exactly mine would be called.


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## CrazyCanuck

Does anyone happen to know what exactly the different levels of colour deficiency entail?

I have Red-Green Deutran colour deficiency.

I know there are three levels: V1, V2, V3 (or something like that).

where:

V1 is the best (I‘m assuming NO colour problems, cause this is pilot level)

V2 being worse (I‘m guessing mild colour deficiency)

V3 being worst (I‘m thinking major problems/monochrome vision)

I‘m applying as a Sig Op (R215), which is V2.  So I basically have to hope my type of colour blindness is V2 level.

So has anyone got into the Sig Op trade with colour deficiency?


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## cathtaylor

Hi There;
The V1 to V5 are testings for your visual acuity not necessarily for color blindness. Color deficiency can come in various forms, yours being the most prevalent and normally restricted to males, then there are some that entail a blue/green deficiency (tritanopia). I know that color blind people are restricted from flying a plane or working in a medical laboratory and I am sure there are other restrictions but I don‘t know what they are. 
If you look for my previous thread, requesting information on visual acuity, a very informative link was posted and you may find the information you‘re looking for there. If not, then you‘ll have to check with the recruiting office.
I wish you good luck.
Cath


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## CrazyCanuck

Ya, I checked out that link.  That‘s where I found out about the three levels.  (I guess it wasn‘t Vn, maybe some other letter.)


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## Cache

Hey guys.  I took the CFAT today.  However failed the CV test.  I had applied as a primary reserve for R043 Combat Engineer Soldier and was told by the doctors etc. that I needed CV1 or 2.  Fair enough, I guess...  

Couple questions: 
I found a Medical Standards for the CAF document on the web, http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/034-30_e.asp that indicates a CV3 for MOC 041 and 042 (Field Engineer).  It doesn't list 043.  What's up with that?

Also, how is it that the CAF will allow a Colour blind soldier out on the firing line as Infantry or Armoured Soldier?  That 'blows' me away.  If I cannot differentiate between uniform colors properly there's a potential for a friendly fire incident, or a potentially critical hesitation on my part.

I'll call the recruiting office tomorrow and see what they have to say.  That is if I can get through to them.  In the meantime, if anybody has a knowledge of this, I'd appreciate your input.

Cheers.


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## Basic Person

i am colourblind but still got into EME. Also, most ppl with acute colourblindness can still tell colours, but when two similiar colours are close together, it gets tough to differentiate (for me personally). 

But the test was really wierd b/c I was found to be completely colourblind whereas my optometrist said I was slightly. The rearranging the blocks is a bad indicator, IMO (although I assume there have been studies on it).


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## sigpig

I actually passed the line up the blocks test but could only get about 4 out of 15 on the number in the dots test on a good day. I also did terribly on the lantern test, with the two coloured dots about 10 feet away in a dark room. And every med tech who saw my profile wanted to confirm it or see for themselves or something because I did the tests more times than I care to remember.

I found being cv3 was far more limiting in the number of trades you could get into as an ncm than as an officer. I guess the officer just tells someone to push the blue button and doesn't have to be able to tell which one that is..


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## Donut

Cache:

041 (fd engr) and 042 (HE Op) were amalgamated into trade 043 (Cbt Engr) recently.  The med standards for 041 are the same as 043.


As for uniform recognition, you'll figure it out.

DF


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## medicineman

The main concern with CV in some trades is that wiring and a number of munitions are colour coded - people on the receiving end get a little upset when the wrong round lands on the target or worse someone can't tell the difference between a live and a dummy.

MM


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## combat_medic

Furthermore, Artillery rounds are colour coded... nothing worse than calling in a smoke screen or Illum and them firing HE on your position.


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## Blakey

> but colour vision is not required in the infantry.


Let me get this straight, so your telling me that there _could_ be some soldier amongst the ranks in the unit I'm in and they have absolutely no idea what red and green is? I find that hard to believe, considering that in the *infantry* we deal with more colors under the sun, just as a small example, FIBUA marking of mouseholes, cleared rooms ect with _colored_ glowsticks at night. To me being color blind should be a _red_ flag.


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## combat_medic

Blakey: Yes, colour vision is not a requirement to be in the infantry.


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## old medic

Colour Vision Categories and the Canadian Forces

BACKGROUND:

The light detectors in the human retina consist of rod shaped detectors that work best in low light conditions and three types of cone shaped elements misleadingly called red, green, and blue. The output from these three detectors is encoded by the retina before a coded signal is sent via the optic nerves to the brain. The brightness and colour signals travel within parallel but separate nerves and the signals are then decoded and processed in the brain. At this stage colour memory, context, and other factors modify the perception. After this interpretation of the decoded signal in the brain we "see" a colour attribute within the object we are looking at.

Source: http://www.cleareyeclinic.com/col_vis.html#col_vis_top

Color blindness is rooted in the chromosomal differences between males and females. Females may be carriers of color blindness, but males are more commonly affected. About 8 percent of males and 0.5 percent of females are color deficient.

Color blindness is a malfunction of the retina, which converts light energy into electircal energy that is then transmitted to the brain. This conversion is accomplished by two types of photoreceptor cells in the retina: rods and cones.

The cones are responsible for encoding color. Each cone contains structures or visual pigments sensitive to one of three wavelengths of light: red, green, and blue. Normal persons are able to match all colors of the spectrum by mixtures of only three fundamental color sensitivities. Hence, the huge variety of colors we perceive stems from the cone cells' response to different compositions of wavelengths of light.

Defects in color vision occur when one of the three cone cell color coding structures fails to function properly. One of the visual pigments may be present and functioning abnormally, or it may be absent altogether.

For practical purposes, all color-deficient individuals have varieties of red or green deficiency. Blue deficiencies are very rare. Color deficient patients are not completely red or green blind. Compared to persons with normal color vision, they have some trouble differentiating between certain colors, but the severity of the color deficiency is variable. 

Source:  http://www.zipmall.com/mpm-art-colorbl.htm

RGB & CONES:

The 3 cone types are - short wavelength (S) or blue cones 420nm; middle wavelength (M) or green cones 534nm; and long wavelength (L) or red cones 564nm. The peak sensitivity of rods is 498nm. Each cone contains the same chromophore - 11 cis-retinal â â€œ attached to one of three opsins. Small variations in the amino acid sequence of these opsins are responsible for the spectral tuning of the receptors, and abnormalities in these opsins account for the various congenital colour vision anomalies.

TERMS

Protan (root: proto - single or one)
Deutan (root: dual - two)
Tritan (root: triple - three)

Protanopes (Protan) The long cones (red) do not work. medium cones are working. Affects 2% of men. They confuse similar green-blue with a red-purple (exhibit a confusion axis from red to blue-green). Reds appear dark.

Deuteranopes (Deutran) The long and medium cones do not work (red and green). Affects 6% of men. They confuse a green-blue colour with a blue-purple (exhibit a confusion axis from green to purple). 

Tritanopia (Tritan) Is rare and normally disease induced. The short cones do not work (blue). It does not mean the long and medium cones do not work.     

Achromats (exceptionally rare) No colour - true black and white (greyscale) vision. 

An example axis chart for the Farnsworth test is show at the bottom of this page:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/pdf/Engraph/cfp154_annexBappen1_e.pdf

Example images showing the different colour deficiencies of Protan and Deutan with Normal CV:
http://www.tsi.enst.fr/~brettel/colourblindness.html


MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR THE CANADIAN FORCES

Colour vision measurement refers to the eye in its normal state and not to measurement through coloured contact lenses designed to "correct" colour vision defects. The instructions for the testing of colour vision are shown at Annex B CFP-154. Three grades of colour vision are recognized: CV1, CV2 and CV3. 

Extracted from Annex B, CFP-154:

1. The most common form of colour deficiency (blindness) is a recessive sex-linked hereditary
defect which normally affects only males. About 8-10% of males and 0.4-0.8% of females are
colour deficient.

2. The three (3) possible grades of colour vision are:
a. CV1 - Colour Vision Normal
b. CV2 - Colour Vision Safe; and
c. CV3 - Colour Vision Unsafe.

3. Initially, recruits and serving members will be tested using the Ishihara pseudoisochromatic
plates in accordance with the plate instructions. Those who fail this colour plate test will be tested
with the Farnsworth Panel D-15 test. Both of these tests are available at CF Recruiting Centres
(CFRC). If any problem in interpretation of the CV grading occurs, consultation with the
Department of Ophthalmology at National Defence Medical Centre (NDMC) is recommended.

4. Assessment of colour vision by either the Holmes-Wright or Farnsworth Colour perception
lanterns will only be conducted at NDMC and/or the Defence and Civil Institute of Environment
Medicine (DCIEM) for selected MOCs. The colour lanterns are no longer used as secondary tests
for those who fail the Ishihara colour plates, except for aircrew applicants.

You can check minimum medical category (including colour vision) for each trade by clicking here:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/pdf/engraph/cfp154_annexEappen1-2_e.pdf

To determine if your CV1, your given the Ishihara panel test. If you pass this test,
your CV1 Colour Vision Normal.

Ishihara Panel test -  6 examples only. Sets are of 24 or 38 panels. The full test in the CF is 
the first 21 panels in the 24 set.
http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html

If you fail the panel test, you will be tested on the Farnsworth Panel D-15 Test. This
will determine if your CV2 or CV3.

extracts from CFP-154:

The tester arranges the 15 coloured caps in random order,
coloured sides up and test numbers down, in the lid of the test kit case. The fixed cap, a reference
cap, at the left of the case, should be situated near the examinee and on his/her left. It is most
convenient for the tester to sit across a table from the examinee.

10. The test procedure must be explained to the examinee. Starting from the fixed (reference) cap
the examinee is to rearrange the caps, step by step, in order of colour hue. The testing time is two
(2) minutes, and persons who finish very quickly should be asked to check their ordering.

11. To score (correct) the test, the person giving the test simply closes the lid, turns the case
upside down and reopens the lid of the case. If done correctly, the numbers on the caps should
now be readable.

13. The interpretation of the test results is simple if no errors were made in the ordering of the
coloured caps; a grade of CV2, colour vision safe, would be assigned.

If you fail this test (make major errors), you are assigned CV3 Colour Vision Unsafe (Deutan).


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## old medic

Regarding my above post; Should standards or testing change, or someone finds an error. Please PM me 
and I will update the message to keep it relevant.

Thanks,
OM


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## scottyeH?

If your wondering if your color blind or not, look around on the internet and search for some Online Color Blind tests... I just took one(bored) and it looks like i'm fine


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## alanf004

Hi There,

You guys are so lucky to be able to get into an interesting position in the Army in Canada,while having a colour deficiency.

I was reading another post by someone who has the same colour deficiency that I do - deutan (normal red vision but deficient green) - who is still able to get into the Army in a signals role.

I have been trying to get into the Australian Army for 18months now, also in a signals role, going back to school and upgrading my education level, only to find out that I had this deficiency - after making it through the last 33 years and not knowing it - and to see my application rejected!

When I appealed this and asked about other positions, explaining that I have no drama with red - the "danger" colour, and the more important colour to see - I was advised that the most exciting position I can hope to obtain will be working behind a desk because I am "partially blind to the colour green".

So much for looking for a career with a bit of excitement.

Good luck to anyone able to join the Canadian Army with this problem, it kind of shows the Canadian Army is a little more progressive than the Australians...

Cheers.


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## Cowboy

I am strongly considering joining the Army. I have heard that lots of people  in their 30's join and have no problem in basic. I am 21 and just wondering if age puts any restraints on a potential career. As well I am colour blind and wondering if that will exclude me all together, and am un-able to find any information on this??

Any input would be great!!

Thanks.


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## Armymedic

Age is no issue, but colour blindness may exclude you from certain trades. I depends on the extend of your colour deficiency. You'll find out which trades are avail when you go do your recruiting medical.


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## Matty B.

A friend of mine wishes to join the Air Force--and has 20/20--but is colour blind. Question: is he unable to join?


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## Michael OLeary

That will most likely depend on exactly what form of colourblindness he has, and what trade(s) he is interested in.

Until one of the meics can add some more info, this thread from the Canadian Forces Medical Group board may help:

Color Blindness... - http://army.ca/forums/threads/26420.0.html


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## double0three

I think for Pilot specifically you need C2 color vision, which is the 2nd highest notch in color vision.  So he probably cannot go that route, but I think lots of other trades aren't quite as picky.


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## GOF

He can forget about electronics, colour coded resistors, etc.


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## Rad

my father is an AVN tech and has slight colorblindness.  as was said it deppends on what lever of colorblindness he has and what trade he wants to apply for.  I'm sure he would have no problem getting in assuming thats the only thing wrong, but it may not be a trade he is interessted in.


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## youravatar

I hate to revive this old dinosaur, but the link to the medical annex E with the PDF considering the MOCs can't be found, and i've searched here and the DND site but can't seem to find it. Does anyone know where i can?


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## old medic

You can try to access it with this link:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/engraph/annex_e_e.asp

However, the problem appears to be at the DND end of things. Clicking on the
file brings up a 404 error as well.


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## FormerHorseGuard

i was in the service and am a semi expert on being colour blind while being in the army at the same time.
i am cv3 for my own safety i have less trouble tellinng a person what colours i see then those i do not see correctly. too many  colours give me problems

trades that  were closed to me were the following:
any arty trades, more of safety thing then not being able to see the pull the layard. the ammo is marked in colour codes and the safety zone markings , i am guessing some sort of lights used.
sigs was out because of the lights used and wires colour coding.
all air crew positions, all due to a light safety thing
navy trades for the most part closed
was never told if i could of been n engineer
MP was out, for various reasons, unable to show that the car i was chasing was the correct colour and stuff in court if need be.


i was able to be a grunt, supply tech, fin clerk, admin clerk,medic,armoured crewman, mseop and some others
check with your recruiting person for the trades open to your CV level.

good luck, and do not sweat the colour tests. i was tested twice, once on my first physical then sent to a specialist for more testing and once later by DCIEM and aircrew selection , the latern test is harder then any book test. 
good luck in the military


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## brett22

Old Medic, 

Is it still possible for someone to be admmited into the infantry with a grade of cv3? the supported link doesnt seem to be working, so I figured i'd ask.


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## FormerHorseGuard

my first moc was r031 and i am cv 3. so yes it is possbile


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## youravatar

i heard you need CV 2 for reg force Inf. I'm probly wrong though, CV3 is fine for R031 how ever.


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## old medic

There is no distinction between Regular or Reserve in the minimum medical categories.


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## cadettrooper

i have been told that with colour pigment deficiency's your night vision is better? is this true, or just a myth?


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## youravatar

It seem's they have annex E up under a different name. Here's the link.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/pdf/engraph/cfp154_annexEappen1-2_e.pdf


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## cadettrooper

something i noticed down in the occupational specialty section, what does colourblindness have to do with being a paratrooper?, because of the jump light?............


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## old medic

Trakalo said:
			
		

> something i noticed down in the occupational specialty section, what does colourblindness have to do with being a paratrooper?, because of the jump light?............



Nothing at all.   If you go back and re-read it, it says parachutist and not paratrooper. You'll also see that
the minimum category is the same as being an infanteer. i.e:  333225

Since there is no lower Colour Vision (CV) category than 3 , being colour blind doesn't enter into it.

OM


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## cadettrooper

OK thanks, i was scared there for a second when i thought there was a restriction..............


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## Meridian

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but I am curious specifically about this, and maybe someone can answer:

Minimum standards (as per doc):
Arty NCM = CV2.
Arty O = CV3

Is this a small example of where an Officer apparently does not have to be able to do everything an NCM does? Any elaboration or ideas on why it would be a CV3 for the NCM vice the O?


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## kincanucks

Meridian said:
			
		

> Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but I am curious specifically about this, and maybe someone can answer:
> 
> Minimum standards (as per doc):
> Arty NCM = CV2.
> Arty O = CV3
> 
> Is this a small example of where an Officer apparently does not have to be able to do everything an NCM does? Any elaboration or ideas on why it would be a CV3 for the NCM vice the O?



Simplified, NCMs handle arty ammo which has different colours to denote different types of ammunition and officers don't.


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## Meridian

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Simplified, NCMs handle arty ammo which has different colours to denote different types of ammunition and officers don't.



Oh interesting. 
Thanks for the answer Kin.


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## snoop101

While doing the Farnsworth test if you get 2 colours mixed up is that a fail and your classified as a CV3 or is there a min. of total errors you need?


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## old medic

> 13. The interpretation of the test results is simple if no errors were made in the ordering of the
> coloured caps; a grade of CV2, colour vision safe, would be assigned.
> 
> If you fail this test (make major errors), you are assigned CV3 Colour Vision Unsafe (Deutan).



despite paragraph 13, the last sentance lets you get away with a minor error. example. two reversed in order.
( 1,2,3,5,4,6,7  but not 1,2,10,4,5,9)


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## jonathan_power

what are the colour deficiency rules for snipers/marksmen?


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## medicineman

Despite the CV category for infantry being CV3, I believe it's preferred that you don't have colour vision deficits.  And since snipers are infanteers, well take it from there.

MM


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## ColorOfficer

I want to become an infantry officer in the canadian forces, i'm well aware that i'm colorblind and i know i would fail the ishihara plates color vision test, and perhaps the farnsworth one. is it still possible to be an infantry officer in the canadian forces eventhough im colorblind?


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## FormerHorseGuard

I was R031 and still a CV3. I was born this way  and nothing can be done to change it.
The colour vision rating  is more of a safety thing for yourself and the troops around you.
Colour codes on arty  rounds, gernades etc for quick visual ID. No one wants to fire the wrong round on target or wrong colour smoke etc. 
There are trades that are closed to you  when you  are CV 3 but does not mean the end of a career in the army. Have the recruiting staff go over your vision rating and see what  trades are still open to you.

The book test is not as correct as the more advance tests,  the book is just gives a general idea of what  colours are affected by your vision, then you have the coloured disk test, put the pucks in the order of shade from one colour to  the next.  I failed the book tests ( was tested using 3 differerent test books to narrow down the colour problems, ) then I did the disk test and faile dit, but they  rated me Cv2 for my  personal safety, when on a call out at  LFCA HQ I arranged to get a Latern test  at DCIEM the same test they  give pilots and i failed it badly was given the final CV3 rating for my  personal safety.

There are many  trades open to people who areCV3, just be prepared to look at a few other trades. Mostly  likely  you  will find  the following trade areas closed to you, most aircrew trade, naval hard sea trades, some tech trades,  and some others. I remustered to Fin Clk  now a closed trade but tht  had nothing to do with me being colopur blind, just a choice.  Still a lot of interesting trades left to you


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## j0hn_r1

Can anyone comment on the necessity (or lack there-of) of perfect color-vision for Armoured soldiers...?

 ???


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## Gunner98

CV standards can be found on the Internet in Appx 1 to Annex E to CFP 154: http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/pdf/AN-Eapp1-eng.pdf

Crewman (Armour) - CV3 same as Infantry


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## rytel

If anyone is curious about being colour blind as an arty officer, I got in with CV2, and distinguishing ammo colours is not a problem. There's no way you could mistake an HE round for a smoke or illum... they're dark green, very light green, and white respectively, and coloured stenciling further differentiates them.

Only trouble I've had is in recce - if the gun markers are all red, I can't see them on a field of green grass.  That's easily remedied by painting a white stripe horizontally on the flag.

Glow stick aren't a problem - the red and green are far enough apart in shade.


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## Army_Bassist

I've been trying to find a place to ask this for a while now... I'm a reservist but still in highschool, after this year I want to continue on with police training for either OPP, York Region Police, or Toronto Police, maybe even MP. I don't want to have to go through four years of college (criminal justice course) and not be able to get in because i'm extremely mildly colour blind. What test do they make you do when joining the force? I passed the shade test on my medical test (the one where you arrange darkest to lightest shade) but just narrowly failed the book test, I can't recall ever messing up a colour other than in that booklet.


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## PMedMoe

Depends on what category your colour blindness falls into.

Try reading this thread:  Colour Vision Category

and then look at this chart:  Minimum Medical Standards for NCMs

Also, try using the Search function.


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## George Wallace

Army_Bassist said:
			
		

> I've been trying to find a place to ask this for a while now... I'm a reservist but still in highschool, after this year I want to continue on with police training for either OPP, York Region Police, or Toronto Police, maybe even MP. I don't want to have to go through four years of college (criminal justice course)



I am under the impression that all of these forces give preferential hiring to, and may even require, those who have completed the Police Foundations Courses.




			
				Army_Bassist said:
			
		

> ....... i'm extremely mildly colour blind.




Extremely mildly colour blind?   ???


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## mariomike

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Extremely mildly colour blind?   ???



Is that like being a little bit pregnant?


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## snaptee

Where can I learn more about the CV designations and what tests are applied to a candidate to determine them?


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## Occam

snaptee said:
			
		

> Where can I learn more about the CV designations and what tests are applied to a candidate to determine them?



This thread works too.


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## Choquette

Hello, Milnet community! I am a Saskatchewan High School student and RCAC WOII, looking to join the Canadian Forces as an officer in the near future. I am currently in an Air Cadet squadron, and I am loving it. Ever since I started with the program back when I was a wee lil' 12 year old, I wondered what it would be like to take it all to the next level and apply for the forces. I'm 16 years of age and turning 17, so the time is coming around. I know this is what I want to do with my life, this or the RCMP. Lately, I have been leaning over to the Canadian Forces, as the lifestyle in each branch really intrigues me. I have simply come across the issue... what branch should I join?

  I know the answer will likely be something along the lines of "That is for you to decide, young laddy. Only you know what you want!", so I will give a little bit more information on my predicament.

  As an Air Cadet, I was nearly certain I wanted to become an Air Force pilot, and go for the "Power Pilot" course involved within our program. The issue that had only recently came up is, I am color deficient. Red/green deficiency, to be exact. It is a very important to have these two colors separate in your mind, because the colors red, green, and white commonly come up in flight. I can distinguish the two colors quite fine, but I failed the color blindness test none the less. Thinking of the Farnsworth Lantern Test, or better know by it's abbreviation, the FALANT, I could bypass this issue. The issue with that is, I have this gut-wrenching feeling of uncertainty behind it. I have to maintain an above-average confidence level, and knowing I could go through the whole process just to be cut short at a FALANT... it boggles my mind. My local optometrist has no FALANT Flashlight or anything similar, so I can't simply go check like the big city folk might. Now, it looks bad so far... but, wait till you hear the cherry on top; I have less than 20/40 vision. I would have to get a certain type of laser eye surgery, and that costs a good amount. Luckily, I have a part time job that I am using to save for such events. My reasoning behind wanting to become a pilot is because I am a very technically inclined person, and very diligent as well. I know planning a flight for 3-4 hours would take diligence! ^.^

(Oh, and Senator Pamela Wallin and I had a discussion on what branch I should join, both via e-mail and in person. She got me really pumped about the Air Force, being an honorary Major and all, so that really factors into my decision too.)

  Now, next up is the Navy. If I take this road, I would want to become a Maritime and Subsurface Officer, or, MARS Officer if you prefer. I feel I would be capable for this because of my diligence and above-average leadership skills I have already developed through the Cadet program. These would be helpful considering I would be an Officer of the Watch. Now, the Navy, I have been looking at it... and, are surface ships of use in conventional warfare even? I don't know as much as you guys might, but... a saturation attack would decimate any countermeasures we might have, so all it takes is a good amount of cheap missiles launched from the shore, no? Not that Canada will be fighting a conventional war in my lifetime, but... if it ever did happen, I wouldn't wanna be chillin' at a dock with my mates while others are out there being all sacrificial and everything. I would feel like I'm doing less than I'm capable of doing in this hypothetical scenario, and likely just end up re-mustering if at all possible. In which case, my years of training would have been, well, thrown out the window. I wouldn't want to feel like a burden either, and by re-mustering, I would also feel like I'm burdening the military who used taxpayer dollars to train me from scratch... and then they now would have to do it all over again.

  Finally, Army. For Army, I was leaning towards Infantry Officer. Like I said, the leadership skills and diligence would help, and if I was assigned to Mech Inf by chance, the technical inclination would come in too. I also wish to feel like I'm making the physical, frontal difference (Reason I say it this way, is because every member of the CF is contributing to the greater good. If you guys didn't have all the people you did doing all these different unique jobs, it would fall apart.), if you couldn't already tell. Sounds like a foolish and childish fantasy, but really, I feel that the environment provided there is best for me. I also note the usefulness of Infantry and their heightened capability in urban combat (which I think would be huge, considering cities would be the prime tactical positions in a modern hypothetical conventional war) and holding ground, and leading that would be a real honor. 

Of course, when I speak out about all these, I'm only noting their practical role, and noticeably, their role in 'CONVENTIONAL' 'WARFARE'. I have no idea what garrison duties/office duties Officers would be obligated to do (not including the various administration roles). In fact, those don't really matter to me in this. They follow you no matter what branch or role you take, as they are necessary. I am only worried about how they would act conventionally. Even if there is never another conventional war in all time. I'm judging my choice based on that.

So, if anyone can list their own personal opinions on what they can, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks guys, have a good one. 


- Daniel Choquette


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## Occam

I'll make it simple for you.  Your Colour Vision may restrict what occupation(s) you are eligible for.  MARS requires CV2 or better.  If you're a CV3, you're out for MARS.  It's important to know whether that's a starboard (green) running light or a port (red) running light on that vessel that's passing ahead of you in the middle of the night.  Read up on the Medical Enrolment Standards threads here on the site.

You don't choose branches.  You choose an occupation.  If you're going officer via ROTP, you choose an occupation and a degree program.  If you try to choose what to do by what branch/element you'll be in, you're headed for a long period of obligatory service in an occupation you may turn out to hate.

You only registered on the site today; there's lots and lots for you to read.


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## dimsum

For aircrew, the colour test is the colour plate book, not the FALANT.  It was the same test when I was a MARS officer.


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## Occam

Dimsum said:
			
		

> For aircrew, the colour test is the colour plate book, not the FALANT.  It was the same test when I was a MARS officer.



From my quick scan of the thread, the plates are the standard test for everyone.  If you fail that, they do the FALANT.  Both are available during the enrolment medical.


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## Choquette

Ahh, thank you for the advice. Although, I have read up on various things in the past using this website, which is why I registered and came here for help. 

When you fill out an application though, it asks you for your environment of interest. By branch, I do mean environment just so we're clear. I realize I may have mistaken the name for environment, and I apologise. Also, the reasoning behind all of this typing is because I do realize how foolish it is, and I am trying to come to a conclusion on which one I should go for.


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## Ostrozac

Honestly, until you get tested to the appropriate medical standards, you won't really know what your medical category will be. And remember that you don't need to be medically perfect for any occupation. Pilots need Vision 2 and Colour Vision 2 (1 being the best possible score), but even if you have Colour Vision 3 there are a wide number of occupations open to you, including Infantry Officer.

The military medical category system might be something that you want to educate yourself on. 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/CFP-PFC-154/AN-E-eng.asp

Huh,  I just noticed that Artillerymen need decent colour vision (CV 2) but their officers don't (CV 3). I guess the Battery Commander isn't expected to handle the ammo and the fuzes. 

And because you mentioned the RCMP as an option -- be aware that they also have colour vision requirements. It looks like the RCMP require the equivalent of CV 2.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/rec/health-sante-eng.htm


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## Choquette

Alright, thanks a lot for the info guys! I appreciate it. I was scared that I would need perfect color vision for something like pilot. I can still easily distinguish the colors, but when it comes to doing those little dotted circular pallets, I can only pass 60-70% of it.

You were all a great help! If you have any more advice, please tell. I was only trying to consider my other options just in case I couldn't apply for a pilot. 

Also, I have it bookmarked. I know the CV's, now it's time to figure out all the other letters. 

It was a pleasure.


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## sunnyblueskies

Question: Why does the CF require a CV2 for Weapons Tech Land, when a CV3 is accepted in Naval Electronics Tech (Tactical), Plumbing and Heating, Cook etc.? 
Naval Electronics - I would expect to work with colour coded wiring?
Plumbing and Heating - also includes electronics with color coded wiring.
Cook - How do you differentiate the quality of produce or meat if you are red - green deficient?

I don't understand where the color vision plays more importance in Weapons Tech Land compared to the few trades mentioned. Can somebody explain this to me?

Needless to say, yes I made an application, passed Aptitude, Interview and the rest of the medical test with flying colors, but failed the 2 color tests, thus the CV 3 result.
Went to my opthomologist and re-did the eye exams out of curiosity. My acuity vision is good, don't need glasses. Made only 3 or so mistakes with the color plates, failed the Farnsworth test though too, as I said, I'm red/green deficient, deutan. 
My eye doc stated that it is only a very mild case of colour deficiency and that it shouldn't affect me really in any way in daily life, or work. 
Didn't even know I was colour blind until I did the colour exams.
Would a statement of my eye doc of his findings, in writing, make any difference to my medical classification for colour vision in my application for Weapons Tech?

Thanks, this is really frustrating!!!!!!


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## FormerHorseGuard

I am also CV3. I was told it was for my own safety I was disallowed from certain trades, lots of colour codes used for ammo, safety gear, like lights  etc . Very hard to beat a CV3. I failed the book test and was given the lantern test 3 times and failed each time. 
Rules are made to protect the soldier and to protect the soldiers around that  soldier. I would say  good luck on getting them to make an exception in your case. Not very likley.


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## sunnyblueskies

Not really asking for an exception, I just don't understand where the colour part comes in for weapons tech, as other trades use just as much colour coding. Disappointment always brings frustration with it. =) 
FormerHorseGuard, when did you find out about your colour vision? What did you do or do you do in the military?


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## DAA

sunnyblueskies said:
			
		

> Question: Why does the CF require a CV2 for Weapons Tech Land, when a CV3 is accepted in Naval Electronics Tech (Tactical), Plumbing and Heating, Cook etc.?
> Naval Electronics - I would expect to work with colour coded wiring?
> Plumbing and Heating - also includes electronics with color coded wiring.
> Cook - How do you differentiate the quality of produce or meat if you are red - green deficient?
> 
> I don't understand where the color vision plays more importance in Weapons Tech Land compared to the few trades mentioned. Can somebody explain this to me?



It's probably based more on "RISK" than anything else.  You can differentiante between the ammo colours, so think "KABOOM"........as opposed to not being able to identify the wiring colours which means "this thing still doesn't work".


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## sunnyblueskies

DAA, yes I understand that. I don't mean to argue about it either, some classifications just don't make sense to me when compared to each other. 
Crewmen (Army) also can get away with a CV3, and I would assume they handle ammunition and load weapons as well?
Like I said, I do not want to start an argument or anything, just try to understand the reasoning behind classifications when some are truly obvious and others not necessarily.


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## BernDawg

I'm CV3 as well and was an infanteer for 15 years and a Construction tech for 11. Oddly enough my first choice was Wpns Tech Land as well but the CV standards were the same in 85 as they are now apparently. CV3 seems to encompass a very large span of colour blindness. I see colours, just not the same as others. I fail the plates. I hate the lamp test and my Farnsworth test comes up 1-15-2-14-3-13 (you get the idea) but I know guys that are CV3 and can only see shades of grey.  Funny thing is my re-muster to Construction was medical and I was "retained without restriction" so I was accepted as a Construction Tech even though the standard is CV2 due to paint mixing and matching. Never had an issue that couldn't be worked around or through in my 11 years as a Tech.


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## sunnyblueskies

That's exactly my point. CV3 encompasses such a large area of colour deficiency!!!! To be honest, they should use a different testing procedure to see if one can distinguish between the colours or not. The 'farnsworth' (sorting shades in order) can be so tricky, even with normal vision.

One can be colour deficient (red-green in my case) but yet still see red or green, just in a different hue and maybe not as bright and clear as regular CV.


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## 421_434_226

If I remember correctly although it was some time ago, one of the large parts of the Wpns Tech L trade was inspection of wpns and components for indications of metal fatigue which can sometimes be detected by very slight variations in the colour of the material at stress points.


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## FormerHorseGuard

I was in the infantry for a while but ended up a Pay Clerk.

I found out for sure I was colour blind shortly after I joined the Forces. But I had a strong feeling I had problems when I was a teenager and people thought I dressed funny. I wanted to be a pilot, and when I suspected I was colour blind I knew I would never fly as a pilot other than when I flew a kite on a string.
I have problems with so many  colours I cannot keep it all straight in my head. I worn army green uniform I was sure it was black, if you remember the linen green shirts way back when I thought it was off white or blue.  I see green grass as green, I see darker greens better than other shade s of green.  Orange can be orange but the fruit looks yellow to me. Orange can also be a red to me. Browns can be brown or they can be green or what ever colour you tell me it is because I have no clue unless it is brown crayon colour. The Tan brown uniforms of the 90s, no clue I just knew it was the summer uniform and worn it when told to wear it. Female friends always went shopping with me to help pick out the dresser clothes when I was older.  They knew what matched and what  did not match.

I understand the reasoning behind the Colour rating system, and I understand how it has to be in place. I do not see it as a fair or right or wrong or unfair scale. It all comes down to the point with colour codes, and things that  change colour with age and use, it cannot come down to a guess as to what colour it is.

I also wanted to be a policeman, but I cannot describe a person as to hair colour, colour of the clothes eyes, colour of car they  might be driving,  I would be a lousy  witness in court, and I might let the wrong person go or arrest the wrong person all because I could not clearly ID the colour in question.  

I think comes down to the fact do you want a guy who cannot see all the colours making judgement calls on something that goes with the safety rating of  a piece of equipment that  could cause harm or maybe kill someone because you  guessed the colour wrong.


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## sunnyblueskies

I completely agree. 
But can we agree as well that there are different levels of colour deficiencies with different levels of colour recognition? Severity I mean.

#FormerHorseGuard, they  didn't do CV testing when you joined?


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## FormerHorseGuard

I did the  book test on the day of my medical on Oct 07,1988, then was sworn in Oct 13, 1988,  the paper work never caught up with me,  I was on GMT with my RES Unit, sent for appointment in Pembroke, Ontario with a Eye doctor, for Feb 89 I did a set of books, then a set of what  looked to me as blocks of paint, about the size of a twoonie, had to put them in order from green to blue I think. I could not do it. The doctor would not tell me anything until my "MOMMY" showed up ( his exact word was "MOMMY" because he only wanted to explain it once. I was 18 when I joined the RES. I was the only  guy on my course who did not require his parents to sign the paperwork and I turned 19 before the appointment. But he would not tell me the results unless he could explain to my  mom. I was so pissed about it. The army sent me not my MOMMY.  He rated me as CV2 borderline CV3. They finally  got my paperwork done and I got my  first pay April 1989,7 months after I joined, I was done my  GMT, Basic and well into the BTT INF course. Grad was the first week in June.

I went to LFCA HQ for a callout and I was able to arrange a full Colour Vision test at DCIEM at the Air Crew Selection Center, I just called and they did it. I failed the  test 3 times in a row, even with the MCPL or SGT coaching me over my shoulder when I made the mistakes in the colour ID par tof the test with the lantern test.  DCIEM Techs rated me as CV3 and I was told by the MCPL or SGT, that  he would of rated me worse off but CV3 was the worse they  could do. The rating was for my personal safety and the safety of others as my lack of colour vision was off the scale. I never questioned it again, just went with it. The annual paperwork that came around to show your courses and such was never updated to show I was colour blind, always had me as CV0 even thou I wrote it in every year and sent it back to be corrected. 

I am orange/green,  brown/ black, brown/green , yellow/orange , blue/green problematic and shade problematic with most colours . 
I did everything in the army that I wanted to do, the colour problems only held me back from being a pilot. I did mange to fly  in the front seats of the Kiowas, got to guide CH47 helicopters to the landing zone, even managed to pay  troops in cash even when the 5 dollar and 10 dollar bills look the same to me. I even passed the colour test for grenades .


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## sunnyblueskies

FormerHorseGuard

What a story. Thank you for sharing this. 

You said you did everything you wanted in the Military, except being a Pilot. Do you think your color deficiency ever put you or the people around you at risk during your service?


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## FormerHorseGuard

I never put anyone at risk, I was a paper pusher for most of it. 

I think that in my trades being colour blind is not a real issue but in the hard core trades it might be an issuse.
Example reading about Soldiers in Nam popping smoke and having the chopper crew ID the pick up spot by colour and also having the ememy popping smoke to confuse the chopper crew. I might of had a problem giving the right colour of smoke over the radio I saw.

Loading ammo into a 105MM where the ammo is colour coded, could be a huge problem, wrong ammo, wrong effect on target.
Never been on board a ship underway  so the question of safety lights never came up.
I know looking at the video and still pictures of radar screens on aircraft keeping watch on the coasts, I would never been able to do that job as everything looks the exact same.

I think the whole colour vision rules comes down to the very simple fact, the CF does not want a mistake made that harms a person and to some extend equipment or puts a person at risk of harm ( and yes death) because they are making a guess on what they see. The wrong guess might not harm the colour blind guy when the guess is made, but weeks down the road that guessing of what  colour they saw turns out to be wrong and the barrel is more worn than thought or the wrong wire is replace and it causes a malfunction, people get hurt. They want to take the guess work out the picture and lessen the burden of guilt. 
I know you want to be a trade that  requires better CV than you have, find a trade that  allows you  to be a member of the CF that  you  will be able to do and give all attention and enjoy your time in the CF doing.


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## medicineman

Medical standards for vision and colour vision aren't purely medically generated - they're more often operator driven, based on what they feel is the safest bottom line profile to do the job...they do it daily, they they know what has to be worried about.  The powers that be in the EME world decided that the minimum CV Cat of X was the safest bare minimum, so that's what they went with.

MM


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## eaprice

I have a slight colour blindness that does not affect me in everyday life. Can anybody talk more about the tests they use for this? I am able to pass the Farnsworth D-15 (arrange the colours/shades in the correct order) but I cannot pass the Ishihara Plates.

I am very interested in becoming a pilot but I understand it is a long, exhausting process. Don't want to waste my time just to get to the end and realize that I can't do it.

Thanks!


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## dapaterson

According to the medical standards for the CAF, pilots must reach the standard for "Colour Vision - 2", which is defined as:

CV2 – Abnormal Colour Vision (Minor defects) – CV Safe
Fail Colour plates
Pass Farnsworth D-15 Standard test

Thus, not being an expert, my impression is that you meet that standard.


Refs: Medical Standards: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/index.page
Colour Vision standard: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-colour-vision-testing-instructions.page 
Officer/NCM Medical standards: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/officer-ncm-minimum-medical-standards.page


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## eaprice

dapaterson said:
			
		

> According to the medical standards for the CAF, pilots must reach the standard for "Colour Vision - 2", which is defined as:
> 
> CV2 – Abnormal Colour Vision (Minor defects) – CV Safe
> Fail Colour plates
> Pass Farnsworth D-15 Standard test
> 
> Thus, not being an expert, my impression is that you meet that standard.



Thank you!!!


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## Loachman

You would not "get to the end and realize that I can't do it" (for this reason, at least), as you would have to be declared medically fit prior to being accepted as a Pilot applicant.

There are many threads here on this fine Site that discuss matters relevant to you and your application. I suggest that you begin exploring.


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## FSTG

Hello guys,

Been a couple weeks i really look in this forum since i applied as a Pilot two months ago. Doing my CFAT next week. I have read everything on colorblindness but i dont understand the "lantern test can only be conducted as secondary test by aircrew applicants".

Before doing my official medical test with the CF i wanted to clarifiy this. I can't pass the ishihara color plates, at all. I pass every other color test easily, including the lantern test, so i'm technically not G/R deficient. If i am an aircrew applicant and take the secondary test (lanterns) and pass it, does that mean i can still be CV1 ? (i've read that its possible to fail the ishihara plates for other reason than colorblindness, even tho its really rare).

I heard CV2 can't do night missions and they are rarely accepted as pilots even if they meet the standards.


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## sarahsmom

If you refer to this page:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-colour-vision-testing-instructions.page

you can see that the only way to be declared CV1 is to pass the colour plates. CV2 means you failed the plates but passed the Farnsworth. CV3 means you fail both.

Paragraph 4 of the General section further states: "Assessment of colour vision by either the Holmes-Wright or Farnsworth perception lanterns will only be conducted at CFEME Ophthalmology Dept for selected MOSIDs. The colour lanterns are no longer used as secondary tests for those who fail the colour plates, except for aircrew applicants."

Pilot is CV2.


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## army.bread

Hello, I would like to know what kind of CV I need in order to be a pilot in the RCAF, I’m not sure if I am CV2 or CV3. Thanks, for your answers.


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## 211RadOp

CV2

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/officer-ncm-minimum-medical-standards.page


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## dshishir42

Hey everyone, I recently completed my CFAT and TSD for DEO regular position for EME/AERE/NCSE (Three Preferences in this order). I talked to the recruiter, and he said my scores are fine for any officer position, and I am about to graduate with my degree in Chemical Engineering in April, 2020. I am physically in great shape, and have a 20/20 vision. I have couple years of engineering management experience, and I feel that I would fare well for these positions based on my GPA, experience, and my interests. I was browsing the next steps in the application process, and I saw that there is a color vision test in the medical. I read the various posts in this forum, and I saw that with a CV3 color vision, I may be out of luck joining the forces in my trade. I know I am CV3 color blind, as when I did my PPL (Private Pilot's License), and I couldnt pass the Ishihara Test, or the Farnsworth D-15 Standard test (My PPL is "Valid daylight only, 2-way radio required at controlled airports"). I am wondering if anyone is familiar with color vision requirement for engineering officer roles (particularly EME/AERE/NCSE). As the recruitment centers are closed because of COVID19, I couldnt reach my recruiter. I browsed the forum, and I saw the following post from Eye In The Sky:



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I just pulled up
> 
> A-PD-055-002/PP-002 COMM RSCH MOSID 00120, CANADIAN FORCES MANUAL OF MILITARY OCCUPATIONAL STRUCTURE VOLUME 2 PART 2 JOB BASED OCCUPATIONAL SPECIFICATION (JBOS) for COMMUNICATOR RESEARCH.
> 
> Section 1 - General, Special Requirements Para 13 states:
> 
> 13.	This information was verified as correct at the time of publication but may have been subsequently amended. Any questions or suggested changes should be addressed to the OPI with DPCA and DPGP as information addressees.
> a.	Medical Standards.  CF Medical standards are detailed in A-MD-154-000/FP-000.  The minimum Medical standard for assignment to the COMM RSCH occupation is:
> 
> OCC	             V	CV	H	G	O	A
> COMM RSCH	 4	 3	 2	 3	 3	 5
> 
> OPI - D Med Svcs
> NOTE:	The Medical standard shown is for initial assignment to the COMM RSCH occupation.  Experienced personnel who have their medical category lowered will be considered for retention, occupational transfer or released by a Career Review Board (Medical) IAW CFAO 34-26.
> 
> I have no way to verify if the Med Cat info for Comm Research was changed, but the copy I just pulled off the IntraNet was amended 01 Aug 06.
> 
> Maybe a CFRC staff type or someone in the MOC can verify an amendment post-Aug 06.



However, I couldnt locate the A-MD-154-000/FP-000 file, where I could track the color vision requirements for my trade. If anybody has an idea of the color vision requirement, I would greatly appreciate the info.


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## mariomike

For reference to the discussion,

Colour Vision  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13110.75
4 pages.


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## PuckChaser

mariomike said:
			
		

> For reference to the discussion,
> 
> Colour Vision
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/13110.75
> 4 pages.



Last post on that link has the minimum medical standards for every occupation in the CAF. I looked quickly, if you're actually a CV3 you'd be out of luck for AERE but EME and NCSE allow CV3.


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## dshishir42

Ah, blessed! Thank you PuckChaser and mariomike. The link has all the information that I need. Haha, I was starting to get a bit worried that I wouldnt make it.


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## mariomike

dshishir42 said:
			
		

> Thank you PuckChaser and mariomike. The link has all the information that I need.



You are welcome. Good luck.


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## winds_13

The Minimum Medical Standards by trade, along with most of the CAF's administrative policies, can be found on Canada.ca

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/medical-standards-military-occupations/minimum-medical-standards-for-officers-and-non-commissioned-members.html

Also, if you download the "Canadian Forces" App, there is a 'Resources' section with links to the various areas of interest (pay, benefits, CANFORGENS, support services, etc.).


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