# Computer Problems & Solutions



## George Wallace (10 Jan 2005)

Thought I'd start this topic on COMPUTER PROBLEMS AND REMEDIES.

Why?  As I have some problems with this computer running Windows XP Home edition.  Some days it refuses to boot up going to a black screen giving me an option to boot up normally (which it will do after 30 seconds and then land up back at this same screen when it won't boot again and again), boot up in SAFE MODE, boot up in Network, or boot up from a previous date in the Restore option (again via SAFE MODE).  I've figured out that I have some sort of virus, but nothing is showing up when I do a virus scan, nor when I ran MCAfee Stinger.  If I run the Virus Scan in Safe Mode, it can Restart and everything seems to be OK, until a couple days later and I have the same problem all over again.

Any ideas?

Any Solutions?

GW


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## jmackenzie_15 (10 Jan 2005)

Whenever anything like that goes wrong with mine, that I am unable to immediately identify, I just reinstall windows =p
reinstalling windows and screw up alot of your programs because i think it resets the registry keys, so you might have to reinstall alot of stuff to get it to work properly again, usually I havnt too much of a problem with that.... a game or two goes out of whack.Your PC wont delete anything on you though. If you really want to do it, not much bad can happen from doing it really.If your PC is anything like mine, it might have a backup hard drive with only windows files on it that you use to reinstall, or you might have disks to do it.


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## -rb (10 Jan 2005)

Hi George, although no real immediate solutions there are a few things you can do to help check for virus, spyware, adware etc.

first, for virus and security checks go to http://www.symantec.com/securitycheck/ , it's a free online virus and security check with the latest definitions of crap out there. (Also, are your McAfee virus definitions up to date? this is important as new garbage is constantly coming out)

second, a freeware tool for wiping spyware, can be downloaded from zdnet - http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/Spybot-Search-Destroy/3000-8022_2-10289035.html?tag=lst-0-2

third, another great tool for spyware and adware, free version and a higher-end pay version - http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/Ad-Aware-SE-Personal-Edition/3000-8022_2-10319876.html?tag=lst-0-1

These are all great little freebie tools that will help mitigate the threat of malicious code, virus, adware etc but the best thing you can do to stop this stuff is make sure you are running AV software with current definitions, also, investing in a firewall is a great idea too. Some higher-end models are capable of doing virus scanning on the firewall box itself, before anything even gets to your computer, which is an even better option.

hope this helps and best of luck!
cheers,
ryan.


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## sigpig (10 Jan 2005)

Ok, I see I type slowly and others have already presented some of my ideas  :-[

Some random thoughts:

1.  Have you backed up your computer? Having backups of your important documents, pics, etc will make the (almost) inevitable windows crash much easier to deal with. Dont get caught without a backup.

2.  There are several sites where you can do an online virus scan and some decent free anti-virus pgms, such as avg, to check your machine. Use google to locate some. 

3.  Do you use a firewall? Zone Alarm offers a basic free pgm that does the trick for most home users.

4.  Have you ever run an anti-spyware pgm? Spybot and AdAware are good free pgms that will check your machine and get rid of spyware crap.

5.  Do you have something like Norton Utiliities to run and check your machine? Sometimes this can fix some small problems before they get too big. 

6.  Depending on how much you have on your computer and how confident you are in your backups, sometimes it's good to reinstall windows in an effort to make it behave better.      If that doesn't work, a new partition/format will allow you to start with a clean machine and by using the above suggestions increase your chances of having a happy and healthy computer. Of course nothing will help when windows decides to freeze up in the middle of an os upgrade and screw your system totally or your d: drive decides it no longer wants to be recognized by windows. Not that I speak from experience or anything  :crybaby:


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## winchable (10 Jan 2005)

I've only ever had that problem after my computer shuts down suddenly (power failure or running far too many programs)
Are you the only person using the computer? If not you might want to find out what other people have been doing on it, IE Have they been running programs too powerful for your configuration, which might create the instability neccessary to merit the computer shutting down and starting again in safe mode.

I've never run into a virus that does that and it doesn't sound like anything that's circulating right now.
Everything else said in the thread is good, I'm just brain storming a bit here.


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## George Wallace (10 Jan 2005)

I am using AVG for Virus protection,   Ad-Aware SE , and MailWasher which are all FreeWare.   I am also paying for my McAfee Firewall.   I am checking updates almost everytime I logon, including Windows Updates.   

I know that it is recommended to reload Windows every year or two, and have been putting it off because of all the historical data and jpgs I have stored on it.   I may have to breakdown and burn everything to disc and reformat the hard drive and reload all the programs from disc or DSL.   One solution I may try first is to get into the START MENU and check what programs are starting up there and clean some of them out, as there may be a conflict somewhere in there.

GW


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## 48Highlander (10 Jan 2005)

It sounds like you have some system service that's causing the computer to restart on boot.  Can you think of exactly when you first noticed this behaviour?  Did you install any new programs or updates a day or two before then?  There's literaly dozens of things that could be causing this type of behaviour, but it's almost definitely not a viurs.


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## George Wallace (10 Jan 2005)

Is anyone using iClean.   Seems that when I use that on this computer, not my others, that I have a lot of files lately being cleaned.

As the sole user of this computer, I am sure that I have created a conflict somewhere or have a virus lurking somewhere that all my detection attempts have failed to find.

Most, if not all my data is burnt to DVD or CD.   It is just such a pain to have to go looking for it again.   

I hope this thread can be of help to many others.

GW


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## George Wallace (10 Jan 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> It sounds like you have some system service that's causing the computer to restart on boot. Can you think of exactly when you first noticed this behaviour? Did you install any new programs or updates a day or two before then? There's literaly dozens of things that could be causing this type of behaviour, but it's almost definitely not a viurs.



Friday I did a restore back to a date in mid Dec, and then I ran into the same problem when I started up this morning......after everything ran so smoothyly yesterday.

I am wondering about the conflict problem and will try to resolve it with some of the points above.

GW


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## sigpig (10 Jan 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> One solution I may try first is to get into the START MENU and check what programs are starting up there and clean some of them out, as there may be a conflict somewhere in there.GW



Do you mean going into msconfig and checking out what's in startup? That's a good thing to do once in awhile to see what kind of crap has decided to place itself in your startup. 

What kind of cpu do you have? Memory? Have you added some new devices recently without upgrading the power supply?

Something to consider in future, after you've fixed the current issues, is to move away from the evil empire as much as possible. I use Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird (mail) at both work and home and am very happy with both. No, nothing is perfect, but the hackers go for the big boys so these end up being much safer to use. 

Your best choices for backup are:
1. external hard drive - very convenient, very expensive
2. new internal hard drive -
3. dvd writer - yes a cd writer will work but when you go from more than 30 disks to 8 for a backup life is much better  ;D

P.S. What are hard disk prices like in Canada these days? I've lived in the states now for 6 years and I have no idea of the prices up there.


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## 48Highlander (10 Jan 2005)

You sound like you know what you're doing, so if you're not aware of this, you can get answers to a lot of questions on http://support.microsoft.com

It's a searchable online knowledge-base.  Usualy if I run across a problem that I've never encountered before and can't figure out, I can solve it with 15-20 minutes searching that site.


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## Lost_Warrior (10 Jan 2005)

> Some days it refuses to boot up going to a black screen giving me an option to boot up normally (which it will do after 30 seconds and then land up back at this same screen when it won't boot again and again), boot up in SAFE MODE, boot up in Network, or boot up from a previous date in the Restore option (again via SAFE MODE).



Usually, this happens when Windows is abnormally shut down.  It's not caused by any conflicts.  It's standard procedure.  It's basically a security measure windows takes when an abnormal shut down is detected.  It gives the option to boot up several different methods (most being Safe Mode) so you can fix the issue that caused Windows to shut down the way it did.

When you shut off your computer, do you go through the proper shut down procedure, or are you just hitting the off button?  Are there any programs installing (system updates for example) in the background during the time of shut down?

Also, are you running Service Pack 2?

Hopefully I can help.  I'm MCSE Certified. (WinXP, 2000, 2000 Server, 2003 Server)


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## George Wallace (10 Jan 2005)

I am doing the normal shut down, usually after a Virus Scan and a scan by Ad-Aware and then iClean to clean up the hard drive and disk cleanup.  I have Sevice Pack 2 installed and also sent away for the Disc (as it will not be available online in a few weeks).





This system is a Pentium 4 CPU, 1.8 GHz with 1GB RAM.....P4X-266A Mainboard.

I've recently added an external DVD Burner from LACIE (Which is showing up as a Pioneer model in the Hardware Profiles)

I am positive that RAM is not a problem at this time, but have wondered about the power supply, as that is one item mentioned as a possible problem on that screen.  Perhaps caused by a conflict at Start Up.  

GW


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## 48Highlander (10 Jan 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> Usually, this happens when Windows is abnormally shut down.   It's not caused by any conflicts.   It's standard procedure.   It's basically a security measure windows takes when an abnormal shut down is detected.



Bull.   As the man said, the machine will go to the boot selection screen, he'll select normal mode or it'll go to normal mode automaticaly, then at some point during the boot-up procedure it'll shut down again and go back to the boot-selection screen.   That my friend is not "standard procedure"    Going to the boot selection screen once, yes, doing it ad infinitum, deffinitely not.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Jan 2005)

George, this sounds exactly like the problem I had, I would run the correct programs ,etc. that should have gotten rid of whatever was causing the problems, but no.......
so I took it to my brother-in-law who does this sort of stuff for Nortel and he found 8!!!!! viruses that were there but had programs that would wipe out the part of the program that should have found them, and the partial programs is what caused the start-up errors.
He is a member on this site so I will direct him to this thread tonight.


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## Air Force Tech (10 Jan 2005)

I'm no expert, more of a self taught tech junkie, but I experienced a similar problem with one of my computers a while back.  Kept killing motherboards and hard drives until finally I traced the problem to the power supply that had gone bad.  Replaced the power supply, motherboard, and hard drive (all on warranty)  and she's been up and running smooth ever since.  I've also fixed a lot of other people's computers and in my experience, every time I've encountered a problem that's been hard to pinpoint,  the cause has been a faulty power supply.  I'm not saying run out and start buying parts and swapping them into you PC,  just consider getting the power supply tested by someone who knows.  Low voltage can fry circuits as easily as voltage spikes, and a hard drive that isn't getting enough juice will start becoming corrupted until eventually it just burns out.  Just my 2 cents.  Good luck.

P.S.  I also highly recommend Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, especially Firefox.  It prevents a lot of spyware and ad-ware from ever getting onto your PC.


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## Lost_Warrior (10 Jan 2005)

> Bull.  As the man said, the machine will go to the boot selection screen, he'll select normal mode or it'll go to normal mode automaticaly, then at some point during the boot-up procedure it'll shut down again and go back to the boot-selection screen



Didn't notice that.  No...thats not standard procedure at all.


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## Lost_Warrior (10 Jan 2005)

As previously mentioned...check the power supply.  If it's re-starting during start-up, that will cause the "chose start up method" screen to show up.

Also, have a look at your motherboard.  Make sure all the plugs are plugged into the board properly (IDE Cables, Power supply cables)

A lot of times, it's just a lose wire that causes issues...and is fixed with a simple push in.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Jan 2005)

George,

The problems your stating can be caused by a bad stick of ram. Take them all out except one, restart. If you have the same problem, switch it with one of the others. If the first works ok, add another. Keep doing it until it starts acting up again. If you only have two 512's, it's an easy check.

The other thing you want to do, is go to the computer store, get a used 4 Gig hard drive. Should only cost you about $15 - 20. Back up ALL your data you want to keep. Install the 4 gig, call it C and your regular HD as D. Load your operating system *only* onto C, format D and reinstall all your other software to it, plus your backed up data. This way when your Operating System goes wonky, you can reformat and reload C without losing all your data. You will have to reintall Office, etc on D after reinstalling Windows on C, but this is only to re-establish the registry keys. Most of your profiles and options will not be affected.

Failing all of this, get an Athlon XP 3000+ and run Linux. Problems solved ;D


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## Pieman (10 Jan 2005)

> Failing all of this, get an Anthlon XP 3000+ and run Linux. Problems solved


Linux, the power of the gods in your hands   8)
I use a dual boot platform with Windows XP, and Linux Fedora core 3, running off the same system. I use windows for the fun stuff (some games, movies, some internet surfing), and Linux for everything else. Windows crashes and gives me problems. Linux has never crashed in my five years experience with it, and man, you can do a lot with it. It is getting more and more user friendly these days, so I don't see why more people don't switch over.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Jan 2005)

Fear of the unknown and the hassle of loading it up and tying all your programs to it.


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## Mischiefz (11 Jan 2005)

as for free online scanners, I run norton 2k5 on my machine and still run a scan at least monthly at www.trendmicro.com, hands down the best online scanner Ive used, not only for the ease of use but the fact its picked up on stuff others have missed.


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## George Wallace (8 Feb 2005)

I think I finally found my problem.  For some reason my version of AVG Virus Protection wouldn't load properly or update, so I went back to McAfee and reinstalled and updated and found that the computer have several files infected with the W32/Gaobot.worm.  That worm had managed to disable my AVG protection and a couple of other files.  McAffee cleaned out all but one file, which I had to manually remove, and now my machine boots up normally again.  

GW


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## Bruce Monkhouse (8 Feb 2005)

Quote from ME, 
and he found 8!!!!! viruses that were there but had programs that would wipe out the part of the program that should have found them, and the partial programs is what caused the start-up errors

...its not easy being right all the time ya know!!!


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## George Wallace (8 Feb 2005)

Was that for XP?  I know that with Sevice Pack 2, there was Virus and Firewall elements for XP, but have not seen anything for Windows 98, SE or ME.

GW


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## Navalsnpr (9 Feb 2005)

There are viruses out there that will tamper with your installed anti-virus applications.

McAfee came out with it's free downloadable tool that will complete an independent scan.

It is called "Stinger" and is downloadable at: http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/

Anyone using McAfee should from time to time download the latest version of stinger and run it.....especially if you find your system is acting a bit funny.

Some corporate networks will automatically download this program to your local workstation upon bootup and run it in the background every time you log on.


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## Ghost (10 Feb 2005)

Norton screwed up my computer and it took all day to defragment my harddrive using speed disk.

After I took it off it ran so much faster and smoother and it doesn't freeze up when you download a 500mb+ file as it tries to do a virus scan of the file as its being copied to its destination.

The new microsoft one runs pretty smooth and hasn't caused many hang ups yet.

But if all else fails you can always format the drive and start from square one again and reinstall everything  :


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## Morgs (10 Feb 2005)

I wouldn't trust microsoft if they were the last company on earth! (I'll back that up when I sort through my favorites and find the relivant websites etc)

Here is a list of a few great FREE security programs:
1)I'm sure you've all heard of Ad-Aware, some things slip through the crack, but not much. http://www.download.com/Ad-Aware-SE...045910.html?part=dl-ad-aware&subj=dl&tag=top5
2) AVG anti virus. It is so much better than Norton and the best part about it is that it is free!
http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php
3) Zone Alarm firewall. I strongly suggest anyone connecting to the internet use a firewall!
http://www.zonelabs.com
If anyone else wants information on some good apps or anything else, just let me know.


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## someguyincanada (12 Feb 2005)

does anyone know how to make a computer childproof? dont want the munchkin doing anything to it that is bad


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## Navalsnpr (13 Feb 2005)

someguyincanada said:
			
		

> does anyone know how to make a computer childproof? dont want the munchkin doing anything to it that is bad



If you are running XP or 2k, create a new account as a member of the guest group only.  Then they shouldn't be able to install anything etc.


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## someguyincanada (13 Feb 2005)

will they be able to delete things?


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## Navalsnpr (13 Feb 2005)

Yes they can unless you set up attributes in certain folders that you don't want anyone to delete.

i.e. you have a folder called "Work Docs" that you don't want the guest account to be able to access/delete. Then you browse to it using Explorer. Right click and properties the folder. Choose the security tab and add the guest account. Below you will be able to view the attributes for that account. In this case, you would "deny" modify thru write and then apply and then choose "OK". 

You shouldn't do this for the WINNT or Program Files folder as it will cause some problems.


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## someguyincanada (23 Jun 2005)

another computer question...

FL Inverter Board, what the heck is it cause i have never heard of the thing, its on my toshiba 8100 laptop and thier website says it could be faulty, any thoughts on what it could be? all i know its something to do with the screen but to what extent I dont know and was wondering if any of you guys/gals know something about it

Thanks 
Jay


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## GerryCan (10 Aug 2005)

While I was away my wife told me that my pc was acting up, so when I got home I used it for a couple days with no troubles and finally one day during start up it froze and emitted a 2 second beep about every 5 seconds. I'd restart it and sometimes it would boot normally with no problems and other times it would do the same thing. Once in the middle of the night while I had it on it did the same thing and woke me up, needless to say I was pretty pissed off at it. So I did a fresh install(my least favourite solution) and it worked fine for the next week or so. So when I came back overseas my house closed and we moved and when my brother set it up again, it did the same thing, starting smoking and shut down completely. Turned out that the mother board was fried along with my RAM. Anyone know what the heck could cause this? I'm running XP Pro with Service Pack 2, I have updated virus software and haven't installed any new hardware on it for quite some time. I ended up fixing the problem with this:
http://www.apple.com/ca/imac/
and have since turned my back on Windows after years of losing hair over it. Still curious as to why this happened though, anyone?


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## 54/102 CEF (10 Aug 2005)

I had same symptoms as George did -- my travel through the web of fix-it-yourself sites

1st - found this link on Microsoft regarding making a clean boot

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310353
- summary - simple and easy - print it out and follow the directions
- I also unloaded my McAffee Security Centre stuff then reloaded it after I went through the above line

then loaded Registry Mechanic http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/ $45 but seems to work well
- it said it detected over 800 errors in the registry

The boot hang that George describes then went away 

You can download a demo copy that will attack 6 areas of problems - then buy the key if you so wish


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## claybot (11 Aug 2005)

Lots of stuff going on.
If your running a P4 or better you need a 350watt or better power supply make sure you get a good one I have a True Blue Antec.
Great little program called CCleaner, its freeware, you would not believe what this program will find on your system and the amount of junk you can delete, first time I ran it on my laptop I deleted just over 2 gig of junk. My son ran it on his account on my WIN 2000 Desktop he removed 630mb. It can also fix your startup and registry... CCleaner.com
When your hearing beeps from your system your computer is trying to tell you something, every beep means something just depends on the order and amount most techs and some manuals will tell you what they mean. Its just like the code reader on newer cars.
If your opening system make sure your gounded to the frame before you touch anything.

Some of you won't agree with what follows
Norton is a pretty good program but sucks resources, use a router with built in firewall and dump your software firewall.
Microsoft has new anti spyware but only works on WIN 2000 or better.
I've used Norton Anti virus, Adware SE, Adware, SpyBot search and destroy and they have all missed vaious virus/spyware/adware. Checking msconfig or taskmanager to see whats slowing your system down then going online for manual removal instrcutions which means going into the registry.


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## GerryCan (11 Aug 2005)

I don't think i have the manual for my pc anymore, just curious if anyone had a clue off hand as to what it may be.


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## SeanPaul_031 (11 Aug 2005)

You can always back up the registry keys yourself, and then you wont have to reinstall windows over and over again, just reset the registry key.

You can also use system restore, found in the help menu in windows, it's solved 90% of my problems Ive had with my comp


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## GerryCan (11 Aug 2005)

Well like I said earlier, I bought a Mac so there's really no need for me to do it. I'm probably going to upgrade my windows machine the same way I upgraded my old 486 - by putting it out on the curb on garbage day. Just curious is all.


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

GerryCan said:
			
		

> While I was away my wife told me that my pc was acting up, so when I got home I used it for a couple days with no troubles and finally one day during start up it froze and emitted a 2 second beep about every 5 seconds. I'd restart it and sometimes it would boot normally with no problems and other times it would do the same thing. Once in the middle of the night while I had it on it did the same thing and woke me up, needless to say I was pretty pissed off at it. So I did a fresh install(my least favourite solution) and it worked fine for the next week or so. So when I came back overseas my house closed and we moved and when my brother set it up again, it did the same thing, starting smoking and shut down completely. Turned out that the mother board was fried along with my RAM. Anyone know what the heck could cause this? I'm running XP Pro with Service Pack 2, I have updated virus software and haven't installed any new hardware on it for quite some time. I ended up fixing the problem with this:
> http://www.apple.com/ca/imac/
> and have since turned my back on Windows after years of losing hair over it. Still curious as to why this happened though, anyone?



My husband did the same thing when our old computer started to screw up. Well, he didn't buy the fancy iMac that you have but he has an iBook G4. My computer was doing the same sort of thing a few months back until we upgraded the mother board, processor and the ram and now it is lighting fast and only cost us $300(PC Medic). Haven't had any issues yet, and as far as PC Medic knew, the original components were not actually compatible. :

As my husband says "Once you go mac, you never go back"
If you have any mac questions, feel free to msg me and I will pass the problem onto him...he seems to know a ton about mac's.


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## Blakey (11 Aug 2005)

It must be the Ouija Board topic that I was reading last night....because right after I read this thread my computer started emanating this high-pitched whining noise. I sure hope my HD isn't about to go... :


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## sheikyerbouti (11 Aug 2005)

Gerrycan,   It sounds like you blew your power supply.   With laptops it happens a bit although it is dependent on where you live and the quality of your power. It could have been a lightning strike, brownout, surge, etc.

 BTW a PowerbookG4 kicks ass over any Imac any day.

 CCleaner is the bomb and will fix alot of background stuff and it doesn't cost 45 bucks. The best solution that a friend of mine uses is to swap OS keys so he can constantly D/L the latest and greatest in demo's without ever paying a cent. The best solution for using freeware applications is to use as many as you can. Don't rely on one, rely on them all.


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## GerryCan (11 Aug 2005)

sheikyerbouti said:
			
		

> BTW a PowerbookG4 kicks ass over any Imac any day.



My buddy has one, he also paid upwards of 3 grand for it. Plus I have no use for a laptop anyways. But I'd like to hear why it's a better computer.


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

sheikyerbouti said:
			
		

> BTW a PowerbookG4 kicks *** over any Imac any day.


My husband wanted the powerbook, but I am a mean wife..hehehe If any of you get the chance to travel down to the USA with your units, make sure to bring your ID and go to an apple store. They do give a very decent military discount. Hubby's iBook retailed for $1200USD and he got it, after taxes and all the extra warranty stuff $950USD


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## sheikyerbouti (11 Aug 2005)

The G series are fast processors, stable platforms and very compatible with high demand programs like Maya or 3D Studio MAX. If you are a major techie then the G5 is like owning a ferrari. It is highly capable and most notably has the capability to be linked with other processors creating, in essence a "poor man's supercomputer".

 Apple is good for stuff like word processing or surfing but if you play games or truly want the highest specs you still have to stick with a PC platform. Windows Vista (the next XP) is looking  better and better with each announcement of its capabilities. 

 Blakey..... It could be your HD or you might have a fan on the verge of breaking. My Graphics card blew last week and the only way I could tell was from the scraping sound the fan was making on the card.


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## Blakey (11 Aug 2005)

> it said it detected over 800 errors in the registry


You got nothing on me, Im running the scan as I type and its 3800 and counting.... ;D
Edit: Just finished, 4550 total


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## GerryCan (11 Aug 2005)

sheikyerbouti said:
			
		

> Apple is good for stuff like word processing or surfing but if you play games or truly want the highest specs you still have to stick with a PC platform. Windows Vista (the next XP) is looking   better and better with each announcement of its capabilities.



Word Processing and Surfing? So that's why so many graphic designers and animators use macs, so they can make spreadsheets and surf the net...whatever.

Remember the hype about XP and how great it was supposed to be?  Instead we yet another unstable, resource hog, piece of crap operating system. Windows Vista can kiss my A$$.


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

If you would like some specific info on the mac's, I can get my hubby to come on here and type out some stuff for you??


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## GerryCan (11 Aug 2005)

I have all the info I need thanks. I did about a year of research/humming and hawing before I made the switch to mac. A good buddy of mine uses nothing but mac so i messed around with his a lot and drilled him with questions. What model does your husband have?


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## sheikyerbouti (11 Aug 2005)

If you read my post correctly then you would notice that I said it is good for high demand programs like Maya or 3Ds Max. 

 If you are going to flame someone make sure you have a greater understanding of the written English language. 

When it comes down to it, there is virtually no support for games on an Apple computer, hence my statement that the Apple computer is   best left in the domain of apps like word processing or surfing. 

 The biggest problems people have with operating systems is their finite understanding of its capabilities. There is little wrong with XP or any other OS provided they aren't overtasked and updated frequently. Remember that your computer does exactly what it is told. 

 My point still stands.... the best performance is garnered through PC's but in terms   of application stability then one must readily acknowledge the superiority of Apple.


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

GerryCan said:
			
		

> I have all the info I need thanks. I did about a year of research/humming and hawing before I made the switch to mac. A good buddy of mine uses nothing but mac so i messed around with his a lot and drilled him with questions. What model does your husband have?



My husband has the iBook G4   http://www.apple.com/ibook/

He did the same as you. played with his buddies all the time. Problem was that his buddy was single, so he had more disposable income than us. My husband's buddy, Mike, had the 17" powerbook with the works...ended up costing approx $7k CDN.


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> My husband has the iBook G4     http://www.apple.com/ibook/
> 
> He did the same as you. played with his buddies all the time. Problem was that his buddy was single, so he had more disposable income than us. My husband's buddy, Mike, had the 17" powerbook with the works...ended up costing approx $7k CDN.



Shouod have added that he has the 14" and loves it when he is away. Types out his letters on it, saves them to his MP3 and then upoloads them into emails and sends them off. Take way less time than having to wait for a computer to be free and such.


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## GerryCan (11 Aug 2005)

sheikyerbouti said:
			
		

> Apple is good for stuff like word processing or surfing



I'm pretty sure I read this right. By the looks of your name perhaps you're having a problem with the written english language???
But my intentions were not to start an argument, have you honestly ever heard of anyone buying a mac at sometimes 3 times the cost of a pc for word pro and surfing? Kind of like buying a Hummer for a commuter vehicle.
I don't play games on pc, I have an xbox for that so I don't have to update my vid card everytime a new game comes out. Although with 360 coming along it may be time to do so anyways.

SpringRoll : do you use OS X Tiger or Panther?


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## Springroll (11 Aug 2005)

GerryCan said:
			
		

> SpringRoll : do you use OS X Tiger or Panther?



Hubby is running tiger, but he does have a copy of panther..hehehe


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## sheikyerbouti (12 Aug 2005)

Hey Gerry, suck it up and admit you didn't understand my post. I explicitly stated that it is good for programs like Maya or 3Ds max both of which are the primary game design platforms in use by game developers

 There is nothing wrong with my name by the way. In fact there may be more than a few who understand the inside joke behind my name. Since you need a little help, I will give you a hint... FRANK ZAPPA


 Google his name and then apologize you ignoramus.


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## NavComm (12 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Hubby is running tiger, but he does have a copy of panther..hehehe



I don't want to jump to any conclusion here but why do you say 'hehehe"? Is he pirating the operating system?

***************

In my civvie job I am the troubleshooter/sys admin for all our mac computers and one pc that we are running at our office. We have G5's, G4's, everything from ibooks, powerbooks, imacs to towers. We are currently in the process of discussing our future needs....where I work this could take a very very long time because we like to build concensus 

I still love the macs but they are falling behind in terms of compatibility and ability to upgrade.

Somedays I spend all day installing the latest updates of web-based software like media player because somebody received an email attachment they can't open. Usually what's happened is a newer version of the player has come out and the mac version isn't available yet (if it ever will be), so the mac user can no longer 'read' that email attachment.

For older mac O/S like 9, you can no longer get any updates because the demand is not there. So now you are faced with upgrading your system. This used to be as simple as buying the new OS for as many units as you were installing on. That doesn't happen anymore. Now the system software is specific to the unit and therefore even more expensive than ever before.

A perfect example was when our accounting dept. could no longer receive the Canada Tax tables using the payroll software because that company was no longer producing that product for mac users. We were forced to buy a pc running windows xp pro, or do payroll deductions manually.

Seems like Mac is pricing themselves right out of the market and unless you are in the print or graphic/music/arts industries, these computers will be out of reach of the average user in terms of price and compatibility.

It comes down to knowing what you need/want your computer for and purchasing the equipment that will meet those needs. That's my $0.02


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## Springroll (12 Aug 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> I don't want to jump to any conclusion here but why do you say 'hehehe"? Is he pirating the operating system?



Well, as many know, the iBook G4 came with panther as it's "stock" operating system. 
Since the release of tiger, that has been his new operating system.

He does love it alot.


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## GerryCan (12 Aug 2005)

sheikyerbouti said:
			
		

> Hey Gerry, suck it up and admit you didn't understand my post. I explicitly stated that it is good for programs like Maya or 3Ds max both of which are the primary game design platforms in use by game developers
> 
> There is nothing wrong with my name by the way. In fact there may be more than a few who understand the inside joke behind my name. Since you need a little help, I will give you a hint... FRANK ZAPPA
> 
> ...



Yup I understand it, fully and completely. Remember you mentioned it around 4 times? You still didn't get what I was saying after repeating it twice. I'm not going to argue with you over it, after all, you're a genius in your own little world. And yes I am sorry..sorry that you have the misfortune of listening to Frank Zappa :
That's it, I'm taking my ball and going home. Talk to you guys when I get back to canada next week.


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## Springroll (12 Aug 2005)

Can you play next week then?? 

I will miss you :'(


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## NavComm (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Well, as many know, the iBook G4 came with panther as it's "stock" operating system.
> Since the release of tiger, that has been his new operating system.
> 
> He does love it alot.



Thank you for clearing that up. I'd hate to think that anyone would pirate software let alone admit it on an open forum


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

If someone were to come on here and say that they pirated software...well, they obviously are not very smart then.
We do things legit in my home, and the closest we come to "pirating" anything would be taping movies and shows off the tv...


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

Legally you are allowed to make copie of your stuff for personal use, such as making a copy as a back up. 
Here in Canada, it is legal to upload music from the internet, but not to download it, believe it or not.
http://news.com.com/Canada+deems+P2P+downloading+legal/2100-1025_3-5121479.html


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## pronto (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Legally you are allowed to make copies of your stuff for personal use, such as making a copy as a back up.
> Here in Canada, it is legal to upload music from the internet, but not to download it, believe it or not.
> http://news.com.com/Canada+deems+P2P+downloading+legal/2100-1025_3-5121479.html


Ummm, I do not know where to start... You are unbelievably wrong. The Canadian legal system does not "allow" you to do any such thing. The End User License Agreement (EULA) allows you to make a copy of some (SOME) software for back-up purposes. In most cases it does NOT allow you to make copies for your personal use elsewhere or on other computers you may own. Always check your EULA. Various manufacturers have differing EULAs, and the Canadian legal system will not afford you any protection if you are found in breach of the EULA, and the manufacturer is feeling nasty.

I am assuming that the operators of this BBS do not endorse anyone making backups and use of software against EULAs. Please PM them or me if you have any questions.

As well, your reference to a Canadian news source (Gee, ALWAYS a fine place for finding legal precedent  : ) is from 2003. That law has been reviewed and amended since. 

Recently, some Canadian ISPs (Internet Service Providers) have been in court to fight American-style actions against uses of P-2-P software. So far we seem to be OK, but I would not allow my kids to download movies and MP3s.

For everyone else: please do not follow this advice/statement


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

pronto said:
			
		

> As well, your reference to a Canadian news source (Gee, ALWAYS a fine place for finding legal precedent   : ) is from 2003. That law has been reviewed and amended since.
> 
> Recently, some Canadian ISPs (Internet Service Providers) have been in court to fight American-style actions against uses of P-2-P software. So far we seem to be OK, but I would not allow my kids to download movies and MP3s.
> 
> For everyone else: please do not follow this advice/statement




Sorry, when i did my search, the date read Aug 2005....my bad. 

Do you have a current link for the new law??


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## pronto (13 Aug 2005)

You're not getting it. Don't look up Canadian law and interpret it for yourself or others. do this:

Always read the End User License Agreement, and don't do anything for which you would be embarrassed.  

Copying software illegally would qualify for that in my books


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/internet/downloading_music.html

There has been no official bill passed as of yet.


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## pronto (13 Aug 2005)

Listen, this is the last time I am going to say it: Getting legal precedent from the CBC is a silly idea. So is copying software without knowing if you can, and for what purpose. Give this up, you're wrong and gaily looking for support on the internet is silly

This is now officially a silly thread, and the Mods should lock it.

By the way, I know whereof I speak this is a subject which falls under my purview


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

If it is, can you please present me with a link that will substantiate what you are saying?

That is not a a bad request.


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## aesop081 (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll,

What is it now, 3 threads that you turn into legal arguments ?  I'm seeing a pattern here and it usualy ends with you on the losing side.  Maybe its time to realise that no one likes barackroom lawyers.


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

All i am asking for is a link that says it is illegal, thats all.

I did not start this topic on the legailities of it, and I know that we have not knowingly committed anythign illegal in my home, but if it is illegal, PLEASE show me so that I know.

I have even tried to google it and there is nothing coming up...

I am not trying to start a fight pr anything, just want a link....or some sort of reference place that I can go to, to find out the truth.


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## pronto (13 Aug 2005)

Last comment:
You said that legally you can make copies of software. You are wrong. Consult a lawyer. I am not going to provide you with a "link" to a legal database. You are a dangerous putz. Always read your EULA. Don't do illegal things. If you are in doubt - consult an expert. Downloading MP3s from a P2P "network" is silly and whilst saving you money, is questionable ethically. It may someday be illegal. It is in some other jurisdictions. 

Geez - give it up. You are wrong, and offering dangerous, and potentially actionable advice. (although I think Microsoft is not likely to engage in action against someone at home!!!).

Now - you really should log out and take a break. Averaging 11 posts per day since late July is a sign you probably need another hobby, and from some of the other comments, I suspect you are rapidly wearing out your welcome.


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

pronto said:
			
		

> Last comment:
> You said that legally you can make copies of software. You are wrong. Consult a lawyer. I am not going to provide you with a "link" to a legal database. You are a dangerous putz. Always read your EULA. Don't do illegal things. If you are in doubt - consult an expert. Downloading MP3s from a P2P "network" is silly and whilst saving you money, is questionable ethically. It may someday be illegal. It is in some other jurisdictions.
> 
> Geez - give it up. You are wrong, and offering dangerous, and potentially actionable advice. (although I think Microsoft is not likely to engage in action against someone at home!!!).



I *DO NOT* download music or anything else of the sort from the internet....if we do download something, it is usually a song from the apple store, where we pay for it. As for us making back up copies of our computer software, I honestly thought it was okay to have a back up...*MY* bad.

Now instead of jumping on me and calling me a "dangerous putz" maybe people should really give me a freakin' chance here and if I ask for some help in understanding something(like I just did) *then maybe you should give them help instead of being quick to criticize and call them names.*

Many of you have forgotten the whole *LEAD BY EXAMPLE * motto, I've noticed.... :


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## pronto (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> All i am asking for is a link that says it is illegal, thats all.
> 
> I did not start this topic on the legailities of it, and I know that we have not knowingly committed anythign illegal in my home, but if it is illegal, PLEASE show me so that I know.
> 
> ...



GOD - yes you did - you said that "legally you can make backups and copies for your own use". You can't!!!

You said you can download music. No one is disputing that! (You probably shouldn't but no-one said you can't.)

Here's the truth - READ THE FRICKIN' EULA to see if you can make copies of your software and for what purposes. This includes Operating Systems.

Good Lord - give it up. If you are really hoping to get into the Forces as an Engineer, I seriously question both the perspicacity of the Forces and their judgement.

Kincanucks - I really wish you luck - you have far, far more patience than I, and are obviously a better human being, as I am not thinking particularly pleasant thoughts.   I need Tea, Crumpets and a good hug o' Trees


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

pronto said:
			
		

> You said you can download music. No one is disputing that! (You probably shouldn't but no-one said you can't.)



Actually I said you can upload music leagally, I did not say you could download it...read it again.

*"Here in Canada, it is legal to upload music from the internet, but not to download it, believe it or not."*

Now I am done arguing this with you. I was not looking for a fight. 
I honestly believed what I was reading on the internet news sources...sorry.  :


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## aesop081 (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> I *DO NOT* download music or anything else of the sort from the internet....if we do download something, it is usually a song from the apple store, where we pay for it. As for us making back up copies of our computer software, I honestly thought it was okay to have a back up...*MY* bad.
> 
> Now instead of jumping on me and calling me a "dangerous putz" maybe people should really give me a freakin' chance here and if I ask for some help in understanding something(like I just did) *then maybe you should give them help instead of being quick to criticize and call them names.*



Fair enough, lets leave it at that now.



> Many of you have forgotten the whole *LEAD BY EXAMPLE * motto, I've noticed.... :



For most of us, LEAD BY EXAMPLE  is a way of life we put into action everyday, not some buzzword to be thrown around - as you have just done - by people who have no idea what it means.   May i suggest you be very carefully with that one.


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

*I lead by example in my everyday life.* 

I volunteer in a variety of different places. 

I have worked with seniors, those with mental and physical disabilities and the homeless. I have assisted young moms with caring for their kids in a variety of capacities. I have volunteered for the past 4 years with a dog rescue as a member of their transport(driving anywhere from Vancouver, BC to California) and I am a qualified foster home for abused Akitas. I also treat those, that show me courtesy, with the upmost respect that they deserve, but I also don't deal with the BS of those who seem to talk the talk but can't, or won't, walk the walk.

Unless you know me personally, then you have no idea of what I have had to endure to get to where I am now. It has been an uphill battle from the get go when I had my oldest son at 16...and I have never asked for a hand out and was not living at home under my mothers roof. I was supporting my son and I by working and trying to go to school. I have worked my butt off!

Don't even TRY to tell me what lead by example is because I have been doing it all my adult life and will be until the day I die!
That is something that I was brought up with, thanks be to my grandfather....the most amazing man anyone has ever met!

When I ask for help, I mean it....it is hard to eat crow, but I have no problems doing so when I have screwed up.


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## aesop081 (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> *I lead by example in my everyday life.*
> 
> I volunteer in a variety of different places.
> 
> ...



And do not be so presumptuous as to tell me or anyone else here what leading is.  I have "been there done that" and so have alot of people here

As for the rest of your story well, i feel for you.....

no wait, its just heartburn


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## Springroll (13 Aug 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> And do not be so presumptuous as to tell me or anyone else here what leading is.   I have "been there done that" and so have alot of people here
> 
> As for the rest of your story well, i feel for you.....
> 
> no wait, its just heartburn



take some TUMS then... 

NOBODY should be so quick to judge others....no matter what!!


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## pronto (13 Aug 2005)

Aesop - watch out - a classic case of "I have to have the last word" here. Just have a tea and crumpet with me... Most relaxing. Kincanucks reccomends it highly.   ;D


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## muskrat89 (13 Aug 2005)

Springroll - Like it or not, you are attracting attention. This is the second thread today that I have locked, that you have been involved in. Quite awhile back, I noted in a thread, your irritating habit where you absolutely HAVE to have the last word.

Please - slow down and bite your tongue for awhile. Otherwise, rightly or wrongly - your days here are numbered. I don't think you are a malicious person, nor do I think you post here with the intent of being disruptive. Sadly it seems, that has often been the result, in your brief history on the board.

No one doubts your tenacity, nor your ability to endure adversity, nor your commitment regarding your career path. That being said, there are many people on this board who have military experience that numbers in double digits. Over the years, we grow to have a feel for thos who have the combination of qualities to make it, and those who won't. Most here feel that you won't. Not because of your personailty at home, nor your volunteer experiences, or your intelligence level - toughness, independence, and determination can be a hinderance in life, as well as a boon. I would offer that your husband may not be the best judge of whether you can make it, as he loves you very much I am sure, and therefore lacks objectivity. Nor would your friends and family necessarily be the best judges. I can assure you that you have hundreds, maybe thousands of years worth of service looking at you and not thinking you will make it. Knowing you (online, I agree) - that will just get your hackles up, and that is part of my point. In the Military, you will have to follow/listen to people who you don't know, or think are stupid - without hesitation. It may be years before you can, without retribution - have the last word with people that are your superiors. If you want to say "Well, this is just the internet - you don't know me" - that's fine also. If it's just the internet, you shouldn't need to be so adamant about making your point.

Please - sit back, put it in "Park" instead of "Race" for awhile. If a Mod has to get involved with another thread that you are also involved in your warning will be upped, or you will be gone. Whether or not you are blatantly violating Conduct Guidelines, your presence here is starting to be disruptive.

Thanks in advance.


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