# Help put me at peace!



## Jakinder (5 Mar 2012)

Hello all,

Firstly, I'd like to apologize because I understand how annoying these posts can get. However, I am going to insane unless someone helps me out here. I'm an applicant for MARS through ROTP, and I was wondering how competitive my application is. I speak English, French, Spanish and Punjabi. I am an active member of the Model UN club at my school and am the head delegate for WorldMUN 2012 hosted by Harvard. I am also a part of debate club, film club and curling team. I played soccer for 10 years. I have a 91% average and am on the honour roll (why does spell check correct that to honor?). I've written a novel and have gone on a humanitarian trip to Peru. I participate at my local temple and have over 100 hours of community service. I read history, write and paint miniatures in my free time. How competitive am I (relative to other RMC students you have met)?

Also, I am a turban-wearing bearded Sikh. What can I expect in terms of accommodation for my religious affects? I know that Lt. Col. Harjit Singh Sajjan leads a BC regiment and wears a turban. I'm just wondering about how I'm supposed to go about wearing a gas mask. For the sake of discussion, what's your opinion on Sikhs in the CF? Of religious accommodation?

Thank you for your time!


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## Rogo (5 Mar 2012)

Please don't start a thread asking how competitive you are.   Ask a recruiter, apply, or search the ROTP 2011-2012 thread to compare what others have written.

As for religious accommodation. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but there is accommodation in so far as religious practices or customs do not impede the service or working of CF members. This means that if facial hair is impeding the proper working and seal of the gas mask it would need to be shaved and that a helmet will have to be worn instead of turban in some cases.


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## aesop081 (5 Mar 2012)

Jakinder said:
			
		

> how I'm supposed to go about wearing a gas mask.



Take turban off, put on gas mask.


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## Wookilar (5 Mar 2012)

Same goes with a helmet. There are options, as I understand it, for smaller hair coverings that work better under helmets (keeps things somewhat warmer in the cooler months as well from what I was told).

I had the "pleasure" of facing off against friend of mine during some pugel stick (spelling?) fighting. He took his turban off, put on the helmet, and proceeded to beat the crap out of me  ;D. He had no issues during CAP (well, that had anything to do with uniforms or equipment   It is still part of basic training afterall lol).

During Basic, you will need to remove your turban if it interferes with what you are doing or is a range safety infraction (such as wearing a helmet on most (all?) weapons ranges). In the RCN, you will have to remove your headdress for firefighting and combat operations where you need gasmasks/breathing apparatus.

As for facial hair, petroleum jelly can be your friend and many in the RCN have had beards for many years without having to shave it. Not everyone can get a seal with petroleum jelly, so the choice may not be an option. Our senior peeps from the senior service can fill you in more there.

We have many Sikhs in the CF and have had for many many years (as well as just about every religion under the sun/moon). These issues have been looked at in just about everyway possible of the years. You may have to make some sacrifices in order to serve your country (just like the rest of us). I think the CF does a very good job of religious accommodation (and I've dealt with more crazy admin stuff from people from more religions that I even knew existed lol).

Wook


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## The Bread Guy (5 Mar 2012)

Also, here's a reasonably specific outline of one way to deal with head coverings and helmets in such a situation:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/102647/post-1081431.html#msg1081431


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## Loachman (5 Mar 2012)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> As for facial hair, petroleum jelly can be your friend



Not recommended.

http://www.starhawk.org/activism/trainer-resources/teargas.html: "Don't put vaseline, mineral oil, oil-based sunscreen or moisturizers on skin as they can trap chemicals."

http://www.ehow.com/how_5915557_protect-against-pepper-spray.html

It may extend the irritating effects of tear agents and OC, and make them much harder to wash off. With lethal agents...


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## Wookilar (5 Mar 2012)

See, learn something new everyday. Filed away. Thanks.

Wook


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## Loachman (5 Mar 2012)

Vaseline as a protectant against CS was also discouraged during my Militia days in the early 1970s - when a higher percentage of US youth had direct experience.


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## Staff Weenie (5 Mar 2012)

I have had the honour of having three Sikh soldiers under my command over the years (early to mid 90's).  All three were dedicated and driven young men.

In our unit (23 Med Coy at the time), they had no real issues with the 5 K's that I know of. Most people were more curious than anything else. I heard that there was some racism directed at them once or twice, typically as they entered the Mess in Borden with their turbans on. Thankfully, their peers closed ranks and shut the dinosaurs down, and these dinosaurs are pretty much extinct now. 

As for the gas mask - as hard as they tried, none of my three were ever able to get a complete seal on the mask. They went in anyway and did their test. I believe it hurt like hell, but none complained. I am not sure of the newer masks are better with a full beard or not.

Best of luck with your application! I hope to see you in the service someday.


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## PMedMoe (5 Mar 2012)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> As for the gas mask - as hard as they tried, none of my three were ever able to get a complete seal on the mask. They went in anyway and did their test. I believe it hurt like hell, but none complained. I am not sure of the newer masks are better with a full beard or not.



I, too, have gone through the gas hut with a less than perfect seal (mask was too big) and passed.  I don't want to do it for real.


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## medicineman (5 Mar 2012)

Hard sea trades are not allowed to have beards when they're serving on ships anymore due to the SCBA used for firefighting...we had a run of folks looking for chits for beards at one point, but that would in effect land them or have them remustered.  It was a decision made by the operators at a national level incidentally, not by the medical branch.

MM


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## aesop081 (5 Mar 2012)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> They went in anyway and did their test. I believe it hurt like hell, but none complained.



The point of the gas hut is not to choke on CS and see who can suck it up the best.

Fail.


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## Loachman (5 Mar 2012)

No, it's to check the seal and function of the mask and confirm that drills are being performed properly.


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## matthew1786 (5 Mar 2012)

To the OP,

You seem very competitive. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?


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## Jakinder (5 Mar 2012)

I'm 17, going to be 18 in a month. I'll have to talk to the recruiters about the beard in that case.

Thanks for the responses.


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