# Females members authorized to wear the male DEU pants...



## Hot Lips (25 Sep 2008)

For any of the female members who find the fit of the female DEU pants not suitable for their build...there is a way to be given the go ahead to wear the male DEU pants...

I now wear the men's DEU pant and they are great!!!  8)

HL


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## aesop081 (25 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> For any of the female members who find the fit of the female DEU pants not suitable for their build...there is a way to be given the go ahead to wear the male DEU pants...
> 
> I now wear the men's DEU pant and they are great!!!  8)
> 
> HL



Great ! How about informing those female members about what they have to do for this while you're at it ?


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## Hot Lips (25 Sep 2008)

Sure they can just send me a PM and I would be happy to help them out  

HL


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## geo (25 Sep 2008)

Gawd... for years I try my darndest to get into the ladies pants - only to find that she has found a way to get into mine >


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## Strike (25 Sep 2008)

If it's authorized why not just post it on the forum?   ???


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## SMP (25 Sep 2008)

Wow, that's great. I've always just gone on the assumption that since Logistik will send them to you if you call and request them, that they'd be alright to wear. They fit so much better than the female pants since they have no pleats! I've never had anything said to me about wearing the male pants...but, where does it say this in writing?


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## catalyst (26 Sep 2008)

I was on a course once and a coursemate was "jacked up" (well...as far as you can jack somebody up on a CIC Course) for wearing male pants. She was pulled out of class and sent home to get her female pants. 

She was able to order them from logistiks. 

I would like to order a pair as well (although I have to wait until april as I went through this year's points already).....I'll just be sure not to wear them to a course.


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## Strike (26 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> ...there is a way to be given the go ahead to wear the male DEU pants...



I'm still waiting for Hot Lips to say how this can be done.  Pls post it on the board for everyone's benefit.  I, for one, am sick of having the waist of my DEU pants sitting as high as my boobs!


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## Pea (26 Sep 2008)

I'd too love to hear how we go about doing this! The female DEU pants are not even the slightest bit comfortable!


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## HItorMiss (26 Sep 2008)

MediPea said:
			
		

> I'd too love to hear how we go about doing this! The female DEU pants are not even the slightest bit comfortable!




Well you could always wear your skirt instead.....  ;D


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## 1feral1 (26 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> For any of the female members who find the fit of the female DEU pants not suitable for their build...there is a way to be given the go ahead to wear the male DEU pants...
> 
> I now wear the men's DEU pant and they are great!!!  8)
> 
> HL



Pics HL, pics!

 ;D


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2008)

This isn't a "new" or great concept.

We have many women in the CF who've been wearing male pants for years (I'm one of them) ... and male tunics etc.

Why Paula T. (blue type that she be) was world famous for her male tunic on our JLC Course - it freaked out and affected our American Exchange staff so deeply. And, that was back in the day when our female tunics didn't have chest pockets on them --- so they REALLY stood out in the crowd when being worn by females. I still have and wear my old style pocketless one by the way; it's great ... confuses all the young troopies and every parade someone is bound to ask ... "Uhhh Warrant, why's there no pockets on your tunic?"  

Bottom and the short of it --- if the uniform doesn't fit you properly and no size in the pattern is suitable to your specific anatomical shape ... getting you to try on the male pants/tunic is NORMAL - & always has been.

Just go to clothing stores to the sizing section if you find yourself in this situation. We don't stock DEUs anymore, but there's a reason we keep sizing kits containing every size in the male/female Dress Uniforms. And, if it's discovered there that the male style fits you better, then we will contact Logistik Unicorp and have them switch over your entitlements on their system so that, in the future when you order from them, it's the male garment that shows up on your login.

There is no magic process involved nor is their any 'special" authority or action required by any females. Simply go to clothing and try on the men's pants to determine whether they are the better and more professional looking option for you. They then end up on your docs as your "authorized dress" lest anyone have any questions about that.


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## 1feral1 (26 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Bottom and the short of it



I am awaiting a pic of the Vern version with cheeks cut out  ;D (on a female of course)

Notice the flesh colour in bottom, ha!

Grins cheaply,

Wes


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2008)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> I am awaiting a pic of the Vern version with cheeks cut out  ;D (on a female of course)
> 
> Notice the flesh colour in bottom, ha!
> 
> ...



Why the hell did I type that??  ???

"Long and the short of it" ...


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2008)

SMP said:
			
		

> Wow, that's great. I've always just gone on the assumption that since Logistik will send them to you if you call and request them, that they'd be alright to wear. They fit so much better than the female pants since they have no pleats! I've never had anything said to me about wearing the male pants...but, where does it say this in writing?



Go down to clothing and they'll contact Logistik to have it changed on your login so that you don't have to phone to request the male ones every time. They then become your "authorized dress" once that is done.


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2008)

MediPea said:
			
		

> I'd too love to hear how we go about doing this! The female DEU pants are not even the slightest bit comfortable!



If they are uncomfortable and you can't work in them ... go visit clothing and try on the males ones until you get a size that fits.

*** Note to clarify: If the female ones actually do fit and someone just doesn't like the "look" of pleats --- one would usually find themselves reminded that they are not in a fashion show and that there is no grounds to change ones "authorized dress" based on "I look better in the guys ones". There is a distinct difference bewteen "don't fit properly and can't work in them" and "fit properly, can work in them, but they don't look _good_ on me so I want male ones instead."


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## Hot Lips (26 Sep 2008)

You actually do have to have authorization from Ottawa to wear the male pant (without repercussion)...there is more involved than just contacting Logistik Unicorp...but you can start there...
You can't just say you don't like the pants...you have to substantiate why...everyone is individual...so like I said...if anyone would like to PM me I will help them through with their individual needs 
There is a contact in Ottawa...I just didn't have it here at home to post...

Then if you are jacked up you have it in writing that you are indeed authorized to wear the male pant... 8)

HL


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## medaid (26 Sep 2008)

Moments like these amaze me. We obviously have too much time on our hands as a military in general, and obviously too much money to be fussing over something as stupid as a pair of pants. I mean seriously, does it fit? No? Here try these. It's a simple supply matter, why do we need someone to obtain a freaking authorization? I'd be more worried about if the person who's got problems with the pants can actually do their job more then I care about their pants! I could also give less of a damn what kind of pants they're wearing. Because if it looks like sh*t it'll look like sh*t no matter what pants you wear.

Jebus...


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> You actually do have to have authorization from Ottawa to wear the male pant (without repercussion)...there is more involved than just contacting Logistik Unicorp...but you can start there...
> You can't just say you don't like the pants...you have to substantiate why...everyone is individual...so like I said...if anyone would like to PM me I will help them through with their individual needs
> There is a contact in Ottawa...I just didn't have it here at home to post...
> 
> ...



I didn't say it was as simple as contacting Logistik did I? I said - go to clothing stores.

We order custom boots, custom uniforms, etc all the time for CF members. And by virtue of our placing them onto their docs because they were "required" their entitlement to such now exists on their record. We have what we call a "special sizing roll" that we utilize for exactly these purposes. Our regulations state that before we can have a "custom" set of DEU (or even just pants, tunics, etc) made for anyone that we will try them in that tunic or pants of the opposite sex first, thus saving the taxpayer funds. It IS part and parcel of our (Supply Tech) jobs. Just as those regulations state that we must try them in other "stocked" footwear prior to buying customs/off the racks from downtown. SAME process is applicable - even with DEU. Of course, with DEU - there is ZERO point in trying males into female garments as they simply will NOT fit males properly due to the allowances for breasts etc. Not so the other way around.

When we at clothing have to utilize that special fitting caveat to get you into kit that fits it goes onto your docs ... and indeed by virtue of that -- you will suffer no reprecussions. If you are jacked up - the answer is "it is the dress I am authorized and issued by clothing stores to wear due to special sizing requirements." 'Nuff said.

Who do you think RSMs call to ask if buddy is seen wearing "purchased boots" on his feet vice issued boots? Or a tunic from downtown instead of an issued one? Clothing Stores. "Yes, Sir ... these boots/pants/tunic are indeed what he is issued with as he has a requirement for them."

Now, if you're wandering off into the world of deeming something a "medical requirement/necessity" that's a whole nother ballgame, but uniforms that "fit" are a sizing issue - not a medical issue. "Sizing" is a Supply responsibility.

I have seen the medical side of the house authorize an "exchange of DEU" for a pers back when DEU were not exchangeable and NOT handled by Logistik-Unicorp due to medical requirements ... mostly for chicks who were incapable of losing the baby-weight gained during prenancy or whose hips did not return to the pre-pregnancy position rendering their pants unwearable (<--- a medical situation) etc as "weight gain/loss for non-medical reasons" was not considered to be justification for "free exchange".


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Moments like these amaze me. We obviously have too much time on our hands as a military in general, and obviously too much money to be fussing over something as stupid as a pair of pants. I mean seriously, does it fit? No? Here try these. It's a simple supply matter, why do we need someone to obtain a freaking authorization? I'd be more worried about if the person who's got problems with the pants can actually do their job more then I care about their pants! I could also give less of a damn what kind of pants they're wearing. Because if it looks like sh*t it'll look like sh*t no matter what pants you wear.
> 
> Jebus...



You don't.

If it's a sizing issue then Clothing Stores is fully authorized and delegated the ability to get you into something that fits at the least cost to Crown possible. That includes putting a girl into male pattern pants if that solves the issue. Period.


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## Neill McKay (28 Sep 2008)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> I was on a course once and a coursemate was "jacked up" (well...as far as you can jack somebody up on a CIC Course) for wearing male pants.



(It was probably not nearly as far as a person can be jacked up on a CIC course.  But then, that sort of thing is reserved for doing something worse than wearing the wrong pants -- especially when it's evidently allowed.)

Actually I had no idea this was ever done in the Forces, but as a cadet unit supply officer I did issue female pants to a male cadet who was a challenge to kit out.  They fit him fine, but I hear that he had to think for a moment when putting them on -- having the button and fly on the opposite side came as a bit of a surprise.  (We didn't tell him we were giving him female pants.)


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## geo (28 Sep 2008)

NM... 
zippers are only a problem when you find them on the hip


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Sep 2008)

I really hate it when someone tries to empire build or decide they have a secret that affects hundreds (thousands) and they deem themselves "keeper of the key". It's all bullshit and if it affects a lot of members, it should become open source. If it's a legal way of doing something, or procuring an item, let the rest know, out in the open. Don't try create a aura of self import, when the situation doesn't warrant it.

If it's a legal, in system, solution for dealing with a problem, YOU DON"T OWN IT!!!!!

Quit trying to be coy, and secretive. As a nurse, I'm sure you get enough ego gratification just helping people every day 

Or perhaps you're 'skirting' the rules and think you've found some illegal workaround? In which case we could see you as being secretive, but contrary to the NDA.

What is it? Legal and open source? Or illegal and you're counselling members how to break the law?

No more bullshit. Which is it, and what are you going to do about it?


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## Hot Lips (28 Sep 2008)

Pretty sure Vern has made it clear...didn't see any need to expand on the issues any further...

Please do not infer that I would be involved in something that is not above board...respect begets respect...thank you...

I didn't want to post someones personal email here as that would not be appropriate...there is no veiled speech or anything of that nature going on...just trying to be helpful and not into bashing people for trying to do the same for others...

Regards.

HL


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## armyvern (28 Sep 2008)

Two seperate issues, just as for footwear:

1) SIZING Issues: A Supply jurisdiction, in that if you do not fit into stocked items (such as boots) due to having feet smaller/larger than "stocked" items ... it becomes a Supply requirement to utilize the special sizing process to kit you.

2) MEDICAL Issues: A Medical jurisdiction, in that if stocked sizes fit, but you require a non-stocked item due to a bonified medical requirement (such as often occurs with boots/feet problems) ... it becomes a medical jurisdiction whereby the Med world substantiates and issues the "authority" and Supply will then action the accomodation outside of "stock items" on that medical grounds.

It used to be quite easy to argue the medical requirement for females to "exchange" DEU pants due to post-maternal issues such as the hips displacement etc that I've noted previously - not quite so easy anymore as the new style of female pants incorporate pleats and elastic bands within the waistline that amply accomodates this issue for most females. I'm sure that there are still minimal "medical" cases occuring though.

And, suffice it to say, "amply" is precisely the operative word ... they make chicks look friggin' huge which is exactly why so many women want out of them. They do - look horrid on a great number of women. Thank gawd --- I also have my old style female pants (stocking up on them at Cash sales as soon as I caught wind of the "new design" that was in the works for we women) so that I will never have to wear the new style.


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