# WELCOME HOME & THANK YOU TO THE TROOPS Community BBQ



## RCL Branch 101 (22 Aug 2011)

Royal Canadian Legion
3850 Lakeshore Blvd, Etobicoke
Monday Sept 5 at 12:30
416-255-4535

All Afghan Veterans attending will enjoy an afternoon of being appreciated while being hosted to free refreshments and food. 

Bring your family and friends.


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## Pusser (23 Aug 2011)

What about Canadian veterans?


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> What about Canadian veterans?



Of course you mean "Why not Canadian Veterans of the Afghan conflict", as opposed to Afghan born veterans right?


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## Pusser (23 Aug 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Of course you mean "Why not Canadian Veterans of the Afghan conflict", as opposed to Afghan born veterans right?



Yes, that's exactly it.  When Canadian soldiers came home from WWII, we didn't refer to them as "German veterans," did we?

On a slightly different note, why only veterans of the Afghan conflict?  All CF members have a role to play and we all contribute.  Why single out only those who actually went to Afghanistan while leaving out those who stayed home in support roles to enable our forces to operate in Afghanistan?  I don't want to seem ungrateful and the Legion can invite anyone they like to a BBQ, but sometimes folks inadvertantly (at least I hope inadvertantly) leave out others whose role was just as necessary, but of lesser profile.

The guy who runs the ball over the goal line gets all the glory whilst the lineman who made it possible is largely forgotten.


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## Towards_the_gap (23 Aug 2011)

On the other hand...we all choose our trades right?


Plus, we can't all be rockstars.

Edited to add: I say this as someone who could not be dragged to an 'Appreciation/support the troops' event.


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## Danjanou (23 Aug 2011)

Welcome to Legion logic Pusser. BTW all RCL branches were "encouraged" to have one of these little shindigs by Dominion Command and there were several in the GTA, although timing it for he same weekend as the Warriors Day Parade shows someone can't read a calender.  :

My branch combined it with a previuously scheduled  benefit to raise money for "Homeless Vets."  I popped my head in for a bit and everyone was having a good time, and they'd raised about $4k for Homeless Vets. Surprisingly I didn't see any vets present either of the homeless or Afghanistan conflict variety...... go figure.  ;D


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## The Bread Guy (23 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> On a slightly different note, why only veterans of the Afghan conflict?  All CF members have a role to play and we all contribute.  Why single out only those who actually went to Afghanistan while leaving out those who stayed home in support roles to enable our forces to operate in Afghanistan?  I don't want to seem ungrateful and the Legion can invite anyone they like to a BBQ, but sometimes folks inadvertantly (at least I hope inadvertantly) leave out others whose role was just as necessary, but of lesser profile.
> 
> The guy who runs the ball over the goal line gets all the glory whilst the lineman who made it possible is largely forgotten.


You raise a great point.  To be fair to the OP, though, as Danajou has pointed out, this appears to be a Canada-wide Legion approach (although the messaging seems mixed - compare yellow to red):


> *More than 6,000 Afghanistan Veterans along with their family members are expected to attend Afghan Veterans Appreciation Day events at Legion branches.* The events will be held across Canada in August and September.
> 
> Based on registration numbers, more than 200 branches are participating in this national initiative and an additional 50,000 well-wishers are expected to show their support at parades, barbecues, and other unique events.
> 
> ...


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## Towards_the_gap (23 Aug 2011)

In reality, it is just a shrewd recruitment approach for the legion, and to be honest, good on them for reaching out to today's veterans.


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Yes, that's exactly it.  When Canadian soldiers came home from WWII, we didn't refer to them as "German veterans," did we?
> 
> On a slightly different note, why only veterans of the Afghan conflict?  All CF members have a role to play and we all contribute.  Why single out only those who actually went to Afghanistan while leaving out those who stayed home in support roles to enable our forces to operate in Afghanistan?  I don't want to seem ungrateful and the Legion can invite anyone they like to a BBQ, but sometimes folks inadvertantly (at least I hope inadvertantly) leave out others whose role was just as necessary, but of lesser profile.
> 
> The guy who runs the ball over the goal line gets all the glory whilst the lineman who made it possible is largely forgotten.



Not every celebration for Veterans has to be all inclusive. It's simply the Legions way of saying thank you to those that went to Afghanistan.

We just had a celebration here for the Veterans that were at Dieppe. I certainly didn't feel ostrasized or put out for not being included. I wasn't there.



			
				Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> In reality, it is just a shrewd recruitment approach for the legion, and to be honest, good on them for reaching out to today's veterans.



If that's truly the case, it's about time. We've been at them for ten years to reach out, with very little action on their part. Almost like the Associates were worried about Veterans taking back the Executive if enough became interested.


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## Pusser (24 Aug 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Not every celebration for Veterans has to be all inclusive. It's simply the Legions way of saying thank you to those that went to Afghanistan.
> 
> We just had a celebration here for the Veterans that were at Dieppe. I certainly didn't feel ostrasized or put out for not being included. I wasn't there.
> 
> If that's truly the case, it's about time. We've been at them for ten years to reach out, with very little action on their part. Almost like the Associates were worried about Veterans taking back the Executive if enough became interested.



Were *only* veterans from Dieppe invited to the exclusion of other vets, including others from WWII?  I don't have a problem with something that commemorates a particular event, but I do think it unwise (particularly for an organization that is suffering from a declining membership) to make it sound like others are excluded.  My biggest point is that all members of the CF for the last decade or so have been involved in the Afghan conflict and they don't even have to have left Canada in order to do that.

"They also serve who only stand and wait." (_On His Blindness_, John Milton)


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## Journeyman (24 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> I don't want to seem ungrateful.....


I assure you, you're not coming across as "ungrateful."  


But I suspect that we'll be seeing more of this -- those who chose not to raise their hand to volunteer for a deployed line-serial now bemoaning any attention paid to those who did.    :


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Were *only* veterans from Dieppe invited to the exclusion of other vets, including others from WWII?  I don't have a problem with something that commemorates a particular event, but I do think it unwise (particularly for an organization that is suffering from a declining membership) to make it sound like others are excluded.  My biggest point is that all members of the CF for the last decade or so have been involved in the Afghan conflict and they don't even have to have left Canada in order to do that.
> 
> "They also serve who only stand and wait." (_On His Blindness_, John Milton)



I'm sure that if you were to show up and voice your sentiments, they would be more than happy to include you in the celebration. Don't forget, most RCLs are now 'private' clubs run & staffed by Associates who have never been in the Armed Forces. They don't have our mindset.

They would probably welcome you equally, with open arms and gratitude and do so without even thinking of pettiness or oversite of the collective. Not that that's the case here, I'm sure.


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## Pusser (24 Aug 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> But I suspect that we'll be seeing more of this -- those who chose not to raise their hand to volunteer for a deployed line-serial now bemoaning any attention paid to those who did.    :



Careful there.  Although there are CF members who tend to do anything they can in order to avoid deployments there are plenty of others who never get the chance for a large variety of reasons (e.g. wrong occupation, critical billet elsewhere, unsupportive chain of command, etc).  Then there  are the folks who didn't go to Afghanistan because they were deployed someplace else (yes, believe it, the CF has other operations ongoing).  I still maintain the entirety of the CF contributed to the Afghan missions, not just the folks who actually went there.  One guy sitting at a desk in Ottawa, means another guy can be made available to deploy...


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## Journeyman (24 Aug 2011)

:boring:    Go to the Legion BBQ; you can have my burger.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Careful there.  Although there are CF members who tend to do anything they can in order to avoid deployments there are plenty of others who never get the chance for a large variety of reasons (e.g. wrong occupation, critical billet elsewhere, unsupportive chain of command, etc).  Then there  are the folks who didn't go to Afghanistan because they were deployed someplace else (yes, believe it, the CF has other operations ongoing).  I still maintain the entirety of the CF contributed to the Afghan missions, not just the folks who actually went there.  One guy sitting at a desk in Ottawa, means another guy can be made available to deploy...



So, do we start another organization along the lines of the D-Day Dodgers?

While many of the CF, or the whole collective as you state, participated in the mission one way or another, not all suffered the hardships and danger that others did. I doubt that the CFRC Staff in Rouyn-Noranda were in much danger of being on the receiving end of a 122mm rocket. I suppose it doesn't matter the extent of participation, in some people's eyes. Maybe we should all get the same mission medals as everyone else, whether we went there or not. After all, we were all in support right?

The Borg approves this message.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Aug 2011)

ALL, 

I think we can have this discussion WITHOUT the digs and maybe work out a better situation.

Bruce


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## kincanucks (24 Aug 2011)

A particular event?  Interesting way to describe the Afghan combat operation that went on for nearly 10 years.  Why not have a get together for those that served in that theatre of operation so others can show their appreciation to those who served in that *******?  Just because some didn't get to go to the sandbox  for various reason they shouldn't feel excluded or slighted. Don't worry all of us that did go, do appreciate the efforts of our fellow service members back in Canada for the support and we know that we wouldn't have been able to do our jobs without it.  Let the Legion do whatever they want and please accept my thanks for all that keep the home fires burning.  There are always far more important things to worry about.  Cheers.


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## Towards_the_gap (24 Aug 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I assure you, you're not coming across as "ungrateful."
> 
> 
> But I suspect that we'll be seeing more of this -- those who chose not to raise their hand to volunteer for a deployed line-serial now bemoaning any attention paid to those who did.    :



I'm sure the same happened in WWII/Korea etc. Some didn't get the chance, some avoided the chance like the plague, should they be recognised the same as those who DID serve in theatre? On rememberance day/veterans week? Yes. At an event appreciating AFGHANISTAN VETERANS? No. If you weren't there, well then you weren't there. As others have stated, service in Canada or on other ops just wasn't the same as service in Afghanistan, as valuable as that Canada-side service may have been.


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## Pusser (24 Aug 2011)

I'm not saying that service in Canada is the same as service in Afghanistan, nor do I think everyone should get the same medals.  However, I think we do ourselves a huge disservice if we allow the growth of a mentality that separates the "real" veterans (i.e. those who went to Afghanistan) from the others.  Everybody in the CF has a role to play and those who stayed home or deployed elsewhere are veterans just as much as those who went to Afghanistan.  My real point is that the Legion needs to understand where its future lies and separating veterans is self-defeating.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Aug 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> I'm not saying that service in Canada is the same as service in Afghanistan, nor do I think everyone should get the same medals.  However, I think we do ourselves a huge disservice if we allow the growth of a mentality that separates the "real" veterans (i.e. those who went to Afghanistan) from the others.  Everybody in the CF has a role to play and those who stayed home or deployed elsewhere are veterans just as much as those who went to Afghanistan.  My real point is that the Legion needs to understand where its future lies and separating veterans is self-defeating.



The RCL makes no such distinction:

'A veteran is any person who is serving or who has honourably served in the Armed Forces of Canada, the Commonwealth or its wartime allies: or who has served in the Merchant Navy or Ferry Command during wartime'

Once more, they are simply saying thanks to a certain group, at a specific time. Much the same as many other initiatives they hold. Go to the back of the magazine and see how many functions and donations they make to individuals and groups. I'm sure some people could figure out a way that they should also be included in lots of those groups too, but it is not the intent of the celebration to be so broad. You're reading way too much into this.

Time to chillax methinks, but that's just my opinion.

As I previously stated, the Legion is no longer run, in the largest part, by Veteran stakeholders. It is now, mostly, an Associates club run by the Associates with some thought given to the Veterans that started the RCL. Many of them simply don't understand the military or what the idea of the Legion is really all about, but they, for the most part, try to. Perhaps instead of bemoaning your lack of invitation for burgers, you should go there, explain your stance and keep explaining it until they get it. I've been doing just that for over 20 years and am not sure whether I've made headway with them yet, but I keep trying. Good luck with that.

At this point I don't think there's anything else to offer you. I don't know whether that will assuage your convictions, but it's the best I can do.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Sep 2011)

Just a bump as it's now Monday.

Bruce


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