# MSVS SMP (Mack) reception



## Dana381 (13 Apr 2020)

I'm interested in the general reception of the new Mack truck. Do the soldiers and maintainers like them? Are they as capable as advertised? 

I am not a CAF member just a civilian who is very interested in seeing our soldiers, sailors, and airmen/women get the equipment that need and deserve. When this contract was awarded I was working for a Mack dealer as a mechanic and couldn't wait to see these vehicles working for the CAF. Despite first deliveries being 04/2018 I have only seen a couple pics on combat camera of one truck being delivered in Libya. I can't wait for in service pictures to surface especially of the Mack milcot's like the tri-drive Titan's. The last Titan's ever built and the only ones with a sleeper. The only pictures i have seen they were still in the factory and hadn't had the chrome pieces powder coated yet.

I truly hope these trucks serve the soldiers very well. as a Mack mechanic the majority of the repairs we did were related to the emission systems. How troublesome have the emission control systems been for the maintainers? I am assuming that these trucks will not derate performance due to emissions faults like their commercial counterparts however if left unchecked plugged or malfunctioning exhaust systems can eventually cause the engine to not be able to run.


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## Kirkhill (13 Apr 2020)

Dana381 said:
			
		

> I'm interested in the general reception of the new Mack truck. Do the soldiers and maintainers like them? Are they as capable as advertised?
> 
> I am not a CAF member just a civilian who is very interested in seeing our soldiers, sailors, and airmen/women get the equipment that need and deserve. When this contract was awarded I was working for a Mack dealer as a mechanic and couldn't wait to see these vehicles working for the CAF. Despite first deliveries being 04/2018 I have only seen a couple pics on combat camera of one truck being delivered in Libya. I can't wait for in service pictures to surface especially of the Mack milcot's like the tri-drive Titan's. The last Titan's ever built and the only ones with a sleeper. The only pictures i have seen they were still in the factory and hadn't had the chrome pieces powder coated yet.
> 
> I truly hope these trucks serve the soldiers very well. as a Mack mechanic the majority of the repairs we did were related to the emission systems. How troublesome have the emission control systems been for the maintainers? I am assuming that these trucks will not derate performance due to emissions faults like their commercial counterparts however if left unchecked plugged or malfunctioning exhaust systems can eventually cause the engine to not be able to run.





> Hartzell pointed out that every SMP, built at the rate of four a day on a dedicated line parallel to Mack’s commercial line in Allentown, Pa., which can push out 100 vehicles a day, is delivered with a commercial cab. The 160 armoured options, mostly steel and composites, were a separate deliverable by Dumur.



So we had Mack build a special line, which will close down, to deliver 1500 trucks over a two year period when the existing Allentown line could have delivered the entire order in a month.  Nothing wrong with our procurement system at all.

https://canadianarmytoday.com/better-logistical-support-petawawa-takes-delivery-of-first-smp-trucks/


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## dapaterson (13 Apr 2020)

That is not a procurement problem.  It's a regional economic development policy problem.

(I recall a long ago book by Alan Fotheringham who pointed out that, since the onset of DREE and other such plans to boost the economy in areas of Canada that unemployment increased in the targeted areas...


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## MilEME09 (13 Apr 2020)

Frankly we should of ordered more then 1500, maybe 3000? give us plenty of room to grow, spares, etc.... As for OP's question hard to say from a maintainer point of view for awhile yet, simply due to contract warranty obligations we can't fix these trucks, we have to send them off to the manufacturer to be repaired. We seriously need to stop writing this into contracts, it does more harm then good from a CAF perspective. I have heard they are great trucks though, heard of one break line breaking off road, that's about it. I look forward to getting the drivers course to drive the MRT variant we just received at my unit.


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## garb811 (13 Apr 2020)

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> So we had Mack build a special line, which will close down, to deliver 1500 trucks over a two year period when the existing Allentown line could have delivered the entire order in a month.  Nothing wrong with our procurement system at all.
> 
> https://canadianarmytoday.com/better-logistical-support-petawawa-takes-delivery-of-first-smp-trucks/


Where do you see where "we" had them build a special line? There's no economic benefit to Canada for that, the Canadian Mack plant shut down in the 90s. Maybe Mack did it them self to meet the timelines of the contract while not impeding the production of its main products.


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## Colin Parkinson (13 Apr 2020)

Now if we could just get a real tactical 2.5 ton truck


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## MilEME09 (13 Apr 2020)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Now if we could just get a real tactical 2.5 ton truck



With our procurement system? You hit your Colin?


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## Dana381 (13 Apr 2020)

Thanks for the input MilEME09, I can certainly see why the MILCOTS trucks go to a dealer for warranty repairs, I honestly didn't think Mack would offer warranty on the SMP units as they will spend so much time off road.

As for the special line my understanding is Volvo/Mack assembled them at a closed Prevost factory in Quebec. I think Volvo moved Prevost assembly to their Nova Bus factory in the U.S.. Volvo/Mack/Renault does not assemble the Kerax in North America or any other Renault model for that matter. I believe I read somewhere that they assembled them in Quebec simply to satisfy the made in Canada conditions of the contract.

That brings me to one of the reasons for my question. As Mack does not sell these trucks in North America I do not have any experience with them so I have no idea how reliable they will be. The Volve D11/ Mack MP7 engine they have is a decently reliable engine. I'm not sure of the rest of the specs.

I think the Titan looks Badass they way they built it for the army! This is one of the only pics i have found of it and its not loaded. I would love to see pics of it hauling a leopard tank. (which is what I was told its purpose is).


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## Spencer100 (13 Apr 2020)

Mack is owned by Volvo AB.  Not the car company anymore.  Volvo also owns Nova Bus and Prevost Car in Quebec.  They were going to put a sub line at Novi at the start but they changed the plan. The Mack that Canadian purchased is a Renault (Volvo also owns Renault Truck division.  They gave the Mack name for marketing.  Most of the parts will come from Europe.  

One more thing their is just one truck assembly plant in Canada. Paccar (Kenworth Peterbuilt). The plant is outside of Montreal.   Mack closed in Mississauga. International closed in Chatham. Sterling in St Thomas closed and so did Western Star in BC


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## Dana381 (13 Apr 2020)

I just stumbled across this video of a gentleman in a U.S. dealer lot doing a walk around of one before it was delivered to the CAF. https://youtu.be/epPZ6aTVOuY

I was disappointed they have A Mack Maxitorque 18 speed manual. Its a decent transmission but a pain to repair. The Eaton 18 speed is just as reliable but much much cheaper and easier to maintain.

The factory microwave and TV was a nice touch. I have never seen a Mack with those options installed.


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## suffolkowner (13 Apr 2020)

Dana381 said:
			
		

> I was disappointed they have A Mack Maxitorque 18 speed manual. Its a decent transmission but a pain to repair. The Eaton 18 speed is just as reliable but much much cheaper and easier to maintain.



This is interesting to me as well as with the last Mack I had the only Mack part was the bulldog.


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## Spencer100 (13 Apr 2020)

That's not the SMP truck.


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## Dana381 (14 Apr 2020)

I know that is not the SMP truck. If you read my original post I also commented that I am also eager to see pictures surface of the Titan's and any other MILCOT Macks working for the army.


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## MilEME09 (14 Apr 2020)

Dana381 said:
			
		

> I know that is not the SMP truck. If you read my original post I also commented that I am also eager to see pictures surface of the Titan's and any other MILCOT Macks working for the army.



The long haulers are pretty nice, my unit received two of them, (initially only one after the other was mistakenly shipped to Gagetown), our MSE Ops love em, already done a few long hauls with em. They are great pieces of kit that will have great utility especially for larger EX's and ops where we could flat deck some of the older, slower vehicles.


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## Spencer100 (23 Mar 2022)

To bring back an old thread.  Now that we have seen many Kamaz trucks in Ukraine get stuck or ditched?  What is the thoughts on our trucks being that they are really a Kamaz?  Is it their just their bad tires and/or maintenance?


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## Brad Sallows (23 Mar 2022)

Were they built in Russia?  Factory floor matters.


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## rmc_wannabe (23 Mar 2022)

Brad Sallows said:


> Were they built in Russia?  Factory floor matters.


Same with replenishment, spare parts, Operator Maintenance, maintenance in general, fueling....


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## Dana381 (23 Mar 2022)

Spencer100 said:


> To bring back an old thread.  Now that we have seen many Kamaz trucks in Ukraine get stuck or ditched?  What is the thoughts on our trucks being that they are really a Kamaz?  Is it their just their bad tires and/or maintenance?



They are based on a Renault Kerax, I don't believe they have anything in common with the Kamaz trucks.


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## Spencer100 (23 Mar 2022)

Brad Sallows said:


> Were they built in Russia?  Factory floor matters.


Yes and no.  Russian design, French assembly and breakdown kitting, Quebec final assembly and fit out.   The auto industry is global.  The parts are from around the world. As we the world is now learning.  There will be Chinese parts on those trucks.


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## Spencer100 (23 Mar 2022)

Dana381 said:


> They are based on a Renault Kerax, I don't believe they have anything in common with the Kamaz trucks.


Opps the Kerax not the Kamaz.  But most were made in Kuluga RF by Volvo AB.  I am sure some of the trucks the Russians are using are Kerax's.

FYI Mack, Renault Truck, Prevost, and Volvo Truck are all Volvo AB brands but not the Volvo car company.


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## Dana381 (23 Mar 2022)

I didn't notice the Russian origin before, I had to look it up. I assumed as they are a Renault truck they were made in France. 

Mack has a plant in Hagerstown, Md. where they manufacture axles, transmissions and rear axles under one roof. The engine is a Renault _DXi 11 _Which appeares identical to the Volvo D11/Mack MP7. the transmission is Allison and the transfer case is ZF. I'm not sure what axles they went with. As they were assembeled in Canada. It would seem odd to ship engines from Europe when they make the same engine in MD. But business does odd stuff all the time.

It's possible Russia uses Kerax trucks but they likely support homegrown designs first like the U.S. does. The U.S. did buy the Unimog but they have Freightliner badges on them and they are more a tractor than a truck.

I don't think any truck in the world will handle the mud in Ukraine right now. As for the ditched ones nothing will run without fuel. Kamaz trucks i believe are very capable in skilled hands by the youtube videos of them i have seen.


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## Colin Parkinson (23 Mar 2022)

How do the 8x8 Kerax based trucks we received compare to the Man 8x8 we had in the 80's in Germany?


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## Dana381 (23 Mar 2022)

Colin Parkinson said:


> How do the 8x8 Kerax based trucks we received compare to the Man 8x8 we had in the 80's in Germany?



These ones need new NOx sensors every couple days


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## Kirkhill (23 Mar 2022)

Dana381 said:


> I didn't notice the Russian origin before, I had to look it up. I assumed as they are a Renault truck they were made in France.
> 
> Mack has a plant in Hagerstown, Md. where they manufacture axles, transmissions and rear axles under one roof. The engine is a Renault _DXi 11 _Which appeares identical to the Volvo D11/Mack MP7. the transmission is Allison and the transfer case is ZF. I'm not sure what axles they went with. As they were assembeled in Canada. It would seem odd to ship engines from Europe when they make the same engine in MD. But business does odd stuff all the time.
> 
> ...



Meanwhile - that sanction didn't last long.









						Renault resumes car production in Moscow as rivals cut ties with Russia
					

Carmaker’s move backed by French government as Nestlé also comes under pressure to withdraw business




					www.theguardian.com


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## Spencer100 (23 Mar 2022)

Kirkhill said:


> Meanwhile - that sanction didn't last long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes.  But just a note here Renault cars is not Renault Trucks.  Renault Trucks is a Volvo AB brand which is not Volvo cars.  Volvo AB is Renault trucks, Mack, Volvo trucks, Provost, Nova Bus and Arquus Defence.  

Volvo cars is owned by Geely of China.  

Renault SA Group is cars. Their brands are Renault, Alpine, Dacia, Renault Samsung, AutoVAZ, and are part of the RenaultNissan Alliance.  

For some crazy stuff watch the Netfix special on Carlos Ghosn. He was smuggled out of Japan in suitcase.


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## Kirkhill (23 Mar 2022)

Thanks for that.....

But now its "Great Coats, Off!"  in any event.









						Renault halts production in Russia after Zelenskyy rebuke
					

Russia makes up around a tenth of Renault’s global revenue.




					www.politico.eu


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