# HEROES COME FIRST: MOTHERS



## Rifleman62 (15 Jul 2010)

Well done Mr and Mrs Jim Seggie

Today's National Post: http://digital.nationalpost.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

The mothers of two Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan are leading a growing chorus of voices decrying the Manitoba government’s decision to expedite the naming of a lake after 22-year-old hockey star Jonathan Toews, an honour commonly bestowed upon casualties of war. 

Shirley Seggie and Wanda Watkins say they do not understand why Premier Greg Selinger rushed to have a lake named for Winnipeg-native Mr. Toews just a month after the millionaire superstar led the Chicago Blackhawks to Stanley Cup glory, while their two sons — who died more than two years ago — have yet to be recognized with such an honour. 

“We shouldn’t have to wait three years to have a lake named after our sons when Jonathan can get it in a month and he is a superstar, not a hero,” said Ms. Seggie from her home in Winnipeg. 

Her son, 21-year-old Corporal Michael Seggie, was killed on Sept. 3, 2008, along with two others when their armoured vehicle was attacked by insurgents. 

“To me, it’s like we’re not important, like our kids did nothing.” 

Ms. Watkins, whose 20year-old son Private Lane Watkins was killed on July 4, 2007 when his armoured vehicle stuck an IED, says Mr. Selinger should have given more thought to the optics of pursuing the naming of a lake for a hockey player instead of first working on the same honour for soldiers who died for their country. 

“This announcement came right at the time of the anniversary of Lane’s death. It is a difficult time of year for us and this definitely caused a lot of unnecessary pain for our family,” said Ms. Watkins, on the phone from her home in Clearwater, Man. 

“I feel badly for the Toews family to be dragged into the controversy because of the opportunity for publicity and a photo-op for the Premier on the coattails of Mr. Toews’ success.” 

Toews Lake, as it is known, is situated 95 kilometres north of Flin Flon, and is about 2.4-kilometres long and 1.6-kilometres wide. It was named in Mr. Toews’ honour just a month after he won a Stanley Cup with the Chicago Blackhawks, and earned the Conn Smythe Trophy for most valuable player during the playoffs. 
Mr. Selinger is away on vacation, but government spokesman Dwight MacAuley said a “national guideline” dictates that geographical features are not usually named for war casualties until three years after death. 

However, he said the province is going ahead with plans in November to name geographical features after five Manitoba soldiers killed in Afghanistan within the past three years, including Cpl. Seggie and Pte. Watkins. The other servicemen to be honoured are Trooper Cory Hayes, Sapper Sean Greenfield and Cpl. James Arnal. 

When asked if the Premier’s decision appeared controversial, Mr. MacAuley replied: “I don’t agree with that. You have two very different sets of emotions here. In one, you have tragedy and grief that is really indescribable. In the other, you have this elation of a hero’s celebration.” 

The last time any Manitoba lakes were named for non-war casualties was in 2002, when the province named lakes for Queen Elizabeth’s then six grandchildren, Mr. MacAuley said. 

About 4,200 of Manitoba’s tens of thousands of lakes honour Canada’s war dead. Others are named for Manitobans with a diverse range of contributions to the province, including conservation officers, engineers, university professors and athletes. 

Still, that’s little consolation for Ms. Seggie and Ms. Watkins, who say they have yet to receive an explanation from the government. 

“To have a lake named after you in a month, you’ve got to win a Stanley Cup, you’ve got to be a superstar,” Ms. Seggie said. 

 “It seems like our kids have been forgotten.” 

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Absolutely that it can be done in 48 hours or less, and the certificate printed up by the Manitoba government. I can only say in defence (me for the NDP!!) that probably a decision was made to make announcements during Remembrance Week. 

Posted previously by Rifleman62 (Nov 07): 



> The one United Nations peacekeeping fatal casualty was Spr Chris Holopina, 2 Combat Engineer Regiment, 4 July 1996. The Manitoba Government (currently the only NDP govt in Canada) is very, very supportive of the military and veterans. Spr Holopina was a member of 26 Fd Regt, RCA, and did a tour prior to joining the Reg F. When the Wng O came down to Manitoba Lakehead District HQ to support 2 CER for the funeral in Roblin, MB, it took a phone call on a Tuesday morning by the G1 to request that a geographic feature be named after Spr Holopina. The obstacle was that previously, features were only named for WW  and Korea vets. That afternoon the govt approved, and by Thursday afternoon, the geographic feature was named, the certificates printed, in our hands for framing, and on-board the CDS's aircraft for the flight to Roblin on Friday AM. Spr Holopina's mother has frequently represented the Silver Cross Mothers' at ceremonys



The Manitoba government granted Freedom of the Province of Manitoba to all Veterans on the 60 th Annivery of V-E Day. They went for the idea right away, and Premier Doer presented the proclamation at a parade at the Legislature.


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## mariomike (15 Jul 2010)

The Canadian Press
"Soldier's family irked by lake naming: WINNIPEG - The family of a Manitoba soldier killed in Afghanistan feels their son has been snubbed by a provincial government more enamoured of hometown hockey star Jonathan Toews than of military personnel who have been killed in action.":
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100715/national/hkn_cup_toews_soldiers

"A PLACE OF HONOUR:
Manitoba’s War Dead Commemorated in its Geography":
http://www.gov.mb.ca/conservation/geomatics/geo_names/honour-e/sample-e.pdf

Certificate:
http://canadianheroes.org/henri/images/geographic-names/certif.jpg

2008
"Street Signs honouring fallen veterans":
http://www.toronto.ca/lestweforget/streetsigns.htm
( Two signs. One of them for a family that lost two sons. Sixty-plus years later. )

They did not waste any time naming a street after a superstar comedian in 2002:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=%22mike+myers+drive%22+toronto&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Mike+Myers+Dr,+Toronto,+ON&gl=ca&ei=vjg_TN3eMYP58AarvPiiAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ8gEwAA

Or, living politicians after themselves:
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/11848--streets-named-after-two-politicians-raise-eyebrows-at-city-hall
"Both are located in a newly built residential area being put up near Jane and Wilson and both honour the names of Liberal MPs."

National Post ( 2008 ):
"Name new streets after war dead, councillor urges":
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/02/27/name-new-streets-after-war-dead-councillor-urges.aspx

Guelph ( 2009 ):
"Four city streets to be named after war veterans":
"...since 1990 to name 50 per cent of the streets after war veterans, people who died while in the service of the city or made a significant contribution to the city. In 2000, a city council resolution was passed that it would be 75 per cent of the streets.":
http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/559547


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## The Bread Guy (15 Jul 2010)

Good stuff!  Here's an alternate link to the original article
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/Heroes+come+first+Mothers+soldiers/3279403/story.html

as well as a mention in today's Reuters' newswire wrap-up for news in Canada:


> - The mothers of two Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan are leading a growing chorus of voices decrying the Manitoba government's decision to expedite the naming of a lake after 22-year-old hockey star Jonathan Toews, an honour commonly bestowed upon casualties of war.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Jul 2010)

> When asked if the Premier’s decision appeared controversial, Mr. MacAuley replied: “I don’t agree with that. *You have two very different sets of emotions here. In one, you have tragedy and grief that is really indescribable. In the other, you have this elation of a hero’s celebration.” *



To me a hero is one that gives all for his country or looses parts of their body for country not some highly paid guy that shoots a puck or ball for a living.....

My  :2c: take them for they are worth.....


This is a hero to me.... a member of my unit that had a very intimate contact with some of the crap over in the sand.....


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## Rifleman62 (15 Jul 2010)

NFLD Sapper

I agree with you. Please remove your attributing the quote to me. The quote is from Mr. MacAuley as quoted by the National Post.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Jul 2010)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> NFLD Sapper
> 
> I agree with you. Please remove your attributing the quote to me. The quote is from Mr. MacAuley as quoted by the National Post.



Done....


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## OldSolduer (15 Jul 2010)

Thank you folks. Watch Canada AM tomorrow morning.


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## Rifleman62 (15 Jul 2010)

The item has been on the news all day in BC. 

Thanks NFLD Sapper.


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## Rifleman62 (16 Jul 2010)

From the CBC ( so I do not guarantee the accuracy).

I have dealt with Dwight MacAuley on a number occasions. He is very cautious.

Manitoba calls soldiers' kin after lake flap
Last Updated: Thursday, July 15, 2010 | 8:51 PM CST Comments3Recommend10.
CBC News 

The Manitoba government didn't intend to offend families of fallen Canadian soldiers by naming a lake after a young National Hockey League star, Premier Greg Selinger says.

Selinger's NDP government was on the hot seat Thursday for its decision to name a small provincial lake after Chicago Blackhawks captain Jonathan Toews, a Winnipeg native, at a ceremony last Sunday.

The province and City of Winnipeg honoured Toews, 22, for his championship hockey season as well as for winning gold with Team Canada at the Vancouver Olympics.

But the gesture made the parents of Cpl. Mike Seggie, a Manitoba soldier killed in Afghanistan in September 2008, wonder why they were still waiting for a similar honour for their son.

'We've reached out to those families … and let them absolutely know that we respect the sacrifices those families have made.'
— Greg Selinger, Manitoba premierHis mother, Shirley Seggie, told CBC News on Wednesday that she has nothing against hockey players but she believes soldiers who put their lives on the line are the real heroes.

The province's chief of protocol defended the government's actions, saying the two cases aren't comparable.

Dwight MacAuley said all war dead automatically have a geographic feature named after them. Under the rules of Manitoba's Commemorative Names Project, the naming of a geographical feature after a dead soldier is delayed three years to give the family time to grieve, he said.

But Selinger said later that Manitoba officials have started contacting soldiers' families to explain they meant no disrespect.

"We've reached out to those families … and let them absolutely know that we respect the sacrifices those families have made and we'll continue to honour their sacrifice and their contribution," Selinger said.

He said the province will hold a lake-naming ceremony for some of Manitoba's fallen soldiers and their families around Remembrance Day.

Toews Lake, north of Flin Flon, is one of thousands of unnamed lakes in the province


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## The Bread Guy (16 Jul 2010)

... from the online edition, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._:


> Judging by the reaction on the page opposite, the Manitoba government probably wishes it had put a little more thought into its decision to name a lake after NHL superstar Jonathan Toews.
> 
> The critics may be overreacting, but try telling that to the mother of a Manitoba soldier who was killed in Afghanistan, or the colleagues and family of two firefighters who died in a desperate attempt to control a blaze, or someone who spent a lifetime in selfless service to his or her community.
> 
> ...


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## vonGarvin (16 Jul 2010)

See the video here

Well done, Mr Seggie!


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## mariomike (16 Jul 2010)

That was a wonderful interview!


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## Rifleman62 (16 Jul 2010)

Fallen soldier's family irked by NHL player-named lake

16/07/2010 8:34:40 AM

CTV.ca News Staff 
Jim Seggie doesn't understand why a hockey player who had one good season can have a lake named after him faster than his son, who died fighting for his country in Afghanistan. 

Seggie's son, Cpl. Mike Seggie, died along with two other comrades in September, 2008 when his armoured vehicle was attacked. Like all other Canadians who die in war, Seggie is automatically entitled under a national program to have a geographic feature, such as a lake or hill, named after him. 

With more than 50,000 unnamed lakes in Manitoba, there is no shortage of geographical features that can honour the bravery of soldiers. 

So Seggie wonders why his family has been waiting two years for a lake to be named for his son, yet the process for honouring hockey star Jonathan Toews took less than a month. 

"My objection is not so much naming the lake (after Toews) as the rush of the government and the length it went to to ensure that Mr. Toews had a lake named after him," Seggie told CTV's Canada AM Friday. 

Manitoba says it chose to recognize Toews for his outstanding achievements this past year. Not only did Toews' Chicago Blackhawks win the Stanley Cup, he was also part of the national team that won Olympic gold, and he won the NHL's Conn Smyth trophy for most valuable player. 

So over the weekend, a small lake about 95 km north of Flin Flon was renamed Toews Lake during a ceremony at the legislative building in Winnipeg. 

The office of Manitoba Premier Greg Selinger insists it did not play favourites. It notes in a statement to CTV News that the national program to honour fallen soldiers does not preclude it from honouring other worthy Manitobans. 

"National guidelines for naming geographical features after fallen soldiers suggest at least three years, recently revised to five years, between time of death and this kind of honour. Under a completely separate process apart from the tradition of honouring fallen soldiers, Manitoba has chosen to celebrate the accomplishments of Jonathan Toews," the statement reads. 

The province also notes it still plans to name lakes after Seggie's son and four other soldiers who have died in recent years, in a ceremony that will be held close to Remembrance Day in November. 

Seggie says while he's grateful for the honour, he's not clear why families have to wait three – or now, five -- years for their loved ones' bravery to be honoured. He also said his family wasn't consulted on the decision. 

"In my mind, I would approach the families of the fallen first to ask them their opinion. Nobody has come to ask: is the time right?" Seggie said. 

"I think five years is a bit much. Grieving never stops, it's with you every day. And if that's the reason for the three to five-year wait period, I don't think it's a very good one," Seggie said.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Oct 2010)

Well done all who helped make this happen  


> The Manitoba government is naming five lakes after soldiers from the province who were killed in Afghanistan.
> 
> But one of their mothers says the move comes too late to make up for the fact she’s waited more than three years to see her son honoured.
> 
> ...


More here.


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