# Parental Leave



## Str1k3r (21 Jan 2010)

My wife is 17 weeks pregnant and I am on PAT platoon awaiting SQ. I am wondering if anyone has any information on parental leave such as how the process is done and also when I am eligible to start my leave in relation to her due date which is July 2nd.


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## dangerboy (21 Jan 2010)

My suggestion is to write a memo outllining all the information that you have and give it to your PAT chain of Comd.  They then will be able to advise you.  If you are unsure on how to write a memo do a search there is a thread with example memo somewhere.


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## Str1k3r (21 Jan 2010)

Thanks for the info. I've been on PAT for a while and I've gotten quite good at writing memos. I'll definitely write one up and send it up the chain


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## captloadie (22 Jan 2010)

This a very interesting question, and I am interested in how it turns out. Normally a member only gets to begin official parental leave (LWOP on EI), after the baby is born. Unlike the PS, there is no authorized leave on the books for the actual birth. The CoC normally will give some kind of short leave, or allow you to take one or two "sick days" , but then it is either LWOP or annual. All that being said, the training system is a different beast.

On a related topic, has anyone ever heard of someone getting denied parental leave?


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## beach_bum (22 Jan 2010)

You can not take parental leave prior to the birth of the baby.  

Something else to note that many people misunderstand is that both parents can not take parental leave.  It can be split, but both parents do not get the full time off.  I have had several members try to tell me that the wife is taking the year off from a civy job (with EI benefits) and they are going to take the parental as well.  This doesn't work.


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## Occam (22 Jan 2010)

beach_bum said:
			
		

> You can not take parental leave prior to the birth of the baby.
> 
> Something else to note that many people misunderstand is that both parents can not take parental leave.  It can be split, but both parents do not get the full time off.  I have had several members try to tell me that the wife is taking the year off from a civy job (with EI benefits) and they are going to take the parental as well.  This doesn't work.



Quite a few seem to be unaware that only the mother can take maternity leave (15 weeks), while either or both of the parents can take a total of 35 weeks (combined) for parental leave.

I'm told Quebec has different rules for the father - he gets time specifically allocated to the father, although I don't know how much.


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## gcclarke (22 Jan 2010)

Parental leave, much like annual leave is an entitlement. While a commanding officer can either defer the start of your parental leave, or order you to return from parental leave, for "imperative military requirements", doing so does not cause you to lose the leave you're entitled to. However, only in the latter case does it extend the 52 week window after the birth / adoption of the child in which you are required to use up your parental leave. 

QR&O Chapter 16.


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## Biohazardxj (22 Jan 2010)

It is true that Parental leave cannot start until the child is born.  However the start date can be deferred, keeping in mind that it must be completed prior the child's first birthday.


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## Str1k3r (1 Mar 2010)

I have two quick questions... First thing is that since my wife is a "stay at home mom" would I be entitled to the full amount of parental leave? If so what is the approximate amount of time allotted? My stupid question of the day would be since I am going on leave in July and possibly not returning until the next fiscal year would I have to take my allotted annual leave before my parental leave takes effect?


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## Occam (1 Mar 2010)

Str1k3r said:
			
		

> I have two quick questions... First thing is that since my wife is a "stay at home mom" would I be entitled to the full amount of parental leave? If so what is the approximate amount of time allotted?



As the father, you would get 37 weeks parental leave (total, combined between both spouses).  The other 15 weeks are maternity benefits and are only available to the mother.



> My stupid question of the day would be since I am going on leave in July and possibly not returning until the next fiscal year would I have to take my allotted annual leave before my parental leave takes effect?



Yes.  You would be expected to exhaust any annual leave remaining.  However, you would only have 8 days (assuming you went on leave in July), because I _believe_ you don't earn any while on parental leave.


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## Str1k3r (1 Mar 2010)

Thank You for your reply... Gives me a good idea of what to expect.


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## TimBit (1 Mar 2010)

I live in Quebec and just got off parental, but not as a Reg Force soldier though... 

In Quebec, there are 5 weeks of father only-leave, 15 weeks of mother-only leave and 32 weeks of parental leave, to be taken by either parents. That is the part of the cake you slice as you wish, with the 5 weeks only for the father.

During that time, you are topped up at 93% by the CF on top of your provincial allocations.


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## CountDC (1 Mar 2010)

You do not earn leave while on PATA but if you return to work in March you will have 2 days to use up.  Just something to take into account along with all the other planning.

Don't forget that PATA plays havoc with your income tax and pension payments.  In the old days we could hold a balance on your pay account to cover the pension but they no longer allow us to hold a balance.  You can either bank some money and pay the pension amount in full when you return to work or you can request it to be taken from your pay monthly.  For income tax take into account that EI will only take taxes out based on your EI payments and DND will only take taxes based on their payments.  This usually means that your income tax will be underpaid when you file and the taxman will look for money.  My last PATA left me with a tax bill of just over $1k if memory serves.  Hoping my PATA  coming up doesn't leave me in the same situation as I have more  tax deductions.


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## Celticgirl (1 Mar 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> As the father, you would get 37 weeks parental leave (total, combined between both spouses).  The other 15 weeks are maternity benefits and are only available to the mother.



That combined part is only if she is also a CF member. If she's not, the father can take the full 37 weeks himself at any point in the child's first year of life.



> However, you would only have 8 days (assuming you went on leave in July), because I _believe_ you don't earn any while on parental leave.



Correct.


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## Occam (1 Mar 2010)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> That combined part is only if she is also a CF member. If she's not, the father can take the full 37 weeks himself at any point in the child's first year of life.



Huh?

It doesn't matter if she's a CF member, a bricklayer, or an orthodontist.  If she has a job, the parents can only take 37 weeks leave between them, total.  If she's not working, the father can take the entire 37 weeks, but it's still a shared benefit between the parents - hence "parental" leave.


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## Celticgirl (1 Mar 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> Huh?
> 
> It doesn't matter if she's a CF member, a bricklayer, or an orthodontist.  If she has a job, the parents can only take 37 weeks leave between them, total.  If she's not working, the father can take the entire 37 weeks, but it's still a shared benefit between the parents - hence "parental" leave.



Just clarifying for the OP. I disagree slightly with your post. If she is not a CF member, he can take the 37 weeks himself. It does not matter what her non-military job is. They _don't _ share in that case. He gets the full 37 weeks, assuming he wants it. If she *is* a CF member, the 37 weeks is divided between them however they like. One of them can take the full 37 weeks, but that would leave the other with 0.


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## CountDC (1 Mar 2010)

Celticgirl - hope the 3's is going good and Borden is not poisoning you too much.

You are mistaken on the 37 weeks split issue.  It does not matter if she is military or not.  If she works at Timmies and takes 10 week then he can only get the remaining 27 weeks.  Has nothing to do with military policies, this is a EI policy so is the same for all regardless of where they work. PATA is shared between the spouses.


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## Celticgirl (2 Mar 2010)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Celticgirl - hope the 3's is going good and Borden is not poisoning you too much.
> 
> You are mistaken on the 37 weeks split issue.  It does not matter if she is military or not.  If she works at Timmies and takes 10 week then he can only get the remaining 27 weeks.  Has nothing to do with military policies, this is a EI policy so is the same for all regardless of where they work. PATA is shared between the spouses.



The 3's is going well, but your post had me confused as we had not covered the EI issue in class. We were only told that if one parent is CF and the other is not, the CF member can take the whole PATA allowance himself/herself. I would like to ask my instructors about what you said above, but they are not available at the moment (and I'm impatient ), so I went on a pub search to find the answer.

I found it in the MHRRP:

*3. Father/mother is a CF mbr.
Civilian spouse eligible for EI
2 weeks may be served by either parent
15 weeks for mother (MATA)
35 weeks can be shared by the parents (PATA)

4. Father is a CF mbr.
civilian spouse (mother) not eligible for EI
2 weeks served by the father.
nil
35 weeks taken by father (PATA)*

Source: http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/DHRIM/mhrrp/Ch17/engraph/ch17_e.pdf

Thanks for the clarification. Good info to know! I'll be passing this along to my course mates as well.  8)


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## CountDC (2 Mar 2010)

The 2 weeks they mention is the two week waiting period EI imposes in which you will receive no money from them.  Not a concern for members of the CF as our employer pays us 93% of our pay for those 2 weeks.  The other 35 weeks we receive payments from EI and a top up from the CF.  

The way things work (at least last time) I ended up with more take home pay each month but owed for pension and taxes so had to plan accordingly.  For some reason they do not allow our pension payments to continue while on PATA which is a pain - much easier for us if it was instead of remembering to squirrel it away while dealing with a new baby.

I'm scenario 2 starting April/May again.  Really like the PATA leave other than it would be nice if I could start it a month prior to due date.


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## Zoomie (13 Mar 2010)

It would also be nice if the PATA top-up by the CF was an automated system, vice having to be manually entered each month.  They forgot to pay me one month - luckily I noticed and got a cheque issued by the cashier.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (31 Mar 2010)

I'll leave comment for later.........


Soldier fights for parental leave
By SUSAN SHERRING, QMI Agency			

OTTAWA - Leaving behind his newborn son, having spent just one brief night together in their home, was gut-wrenching for Maj. Jim Duquette as he left Canada in 2004 to serve in the Golan Heights.

There were regular e-mails from his wife Anne, updating him with pictures and stories, but Duquette had no idea what it was like to be a father.
When he returned to his Edmonton home more than a year later, he took comfort in an anticipated 37 weeks of parental leave to get to know his young son, to begin really being a father.

Not so, according to the Employment Insurance Act, which stipulates the leave must be taken within 52 weeks following a birth or adoption.
He was away 54 weeks.
Those are the rules. That's it, that's all. No exceptions.

*Well, just a little one. If Duquette had been a convict serving time behind bars -- and not helping to keep peace overseas -- an extension could have been made.

That's right.*

Under federal legislation, prisoners have more benefits than the men and women who put their lives on the line for our country.
Duquette, who's not given to hyperbole, admits to being in a state of disbelief.
"I couldn't believe it to tell you the truth, I honestly couldn't believe it," Duquette tells the Sun from Kabul. "I started reading all about the Employment Insurance Act. It was a frustrating thing, I must say.

"I re-read it a number of times, I'd ask other people, 'Am I reading this correctly?' "
Following his return from the Golan Heights, the Duquettes were transferred to Ottawa -- which turns out to be a good thing for everyone involved.

Thanks to a chance meeting with Nepean-Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre, who was going door-to-door campaigning in the past election, the two have managed to bring about changes, and the feds are poised to right the wrong.
Legislation is expected shortly that will change the rules and allow an extension of up to an extra 52 weeks to military personnel serving overseas.

Poilievre says he was as shocked as Duquette when he heard his story.
"It's unbelievable. I was appalled that we would give criminals better treatment than soldiers and I think most Canadians would feel the same. I took up the cause, promising him we would get it fixed," he says.
And that's just what the duo have done.

The budget tabled on March 4 contains a section which commits the government to solve the problem.
Poilievre phoned Duquette in Afghanistan and read him the section of the budget.
"After all of his work, we were able to move forward with a solution so that other military families don't suffer the same injustice," Poilievre says.

"Major Duquette wasn't asking for anything special for soldiers, it's a benefit they pay for, it's the right thing to do. And I'm glad that the government will be announcing action soon," he says.
Both Duquette and Poilievre have reason to be proud of what they've been able to accomplish.
It's a feel-good, heartwarming story in a milieu where few exist.

When Duquette came back, Jacob had already celebrated his first birthday. His family met him at the airport, and he admits to one fear -- that his son might make strange with him.

"I got to hold him. He didn't play strange. It was one of the best moments I've had," he says.
When the Duquettes had a second child, daughter Megan, he was able to take parental leave
And he's honoured he has been able to work with Poilievre to ensure all military personnel will have the opportunity to do the same.

"That I've been able to do this for my fellow soldiers, well, I still really can't believe it. I'm still in a state of shock."
And what of the time he spent with Megan?
"It was an experience I will never forget and one I wouldn't trade for anything."

susan.sherring@sunmedia.ca


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## GAP (31 Mar 2010)

From the sounds of it, it's a case of "out of sight, out of mind". Until someone raised the issue, I can see where EI would see the only ones eligible for the extension (which they shouldn't be, by the way) is convicts. 

Obviously, it should have been handled better, but I've grown so used to government bureaucracies digging their heels in at the slightest hint of change, I don't find it strange.


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## Strike (31 Mar 2010)

I think it also has alot to do with the people who made up the rules in the first place didn't have the background to look at every eventuality.

One-year deployements, although common, are not the norm and, unless someone sitting on that board was former military, they would not have thought of this.  In the grand scheme of things, parental leave in still fairly new (read - we haven't had it for both parents for more than 20 yrs, probably less but I've never needed it so can't be mroe specific!).  It takes issues like this for the system to be adjusted and it takes an act of parliament to make the change.

Good to see someone didn't just accept the status qup and worked to change the system for those who followed.


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## helpup (1 Apr 2010)

Nice Post Bruce

Now lets see if we can change the convicts are allowed it rule.


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## Greymatters (1 Apr 2010)

Nice work by MP Poilievre...


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## GAP (5 Apr 2010)

I know this is the wrong thread, but I can't find the proper one through google.

CBC news just showed a clip where the CF members are now eligible for parental leave if they are out of country for the entitlement period....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Apr 2010)

GAP, I just merged them together since mine turned into an information thread, not just the rant I posted.
Bruce


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