# Two dead, 22 injured in Toronto shooting



## Bass ackwards (17 Jul 2012)

This CNEWS article is reproduced under the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

*Two dead, 22 injured in Toronto shooting* 
By Chris Doucette QMI Agency

TORONTO -- A barbecue ended in bloodshed as a reckless exchange of gunfire erupted in an east-end neighbourhood late Monday killing two people and injuring 22 others, including an infant.

The mass shooting, the worst in the city's history, occurred around 10:40 p.m. during a large house party and sent a throng of people running for their lives from 193 Danzig St., just south of Lawrence and Morningside Aves.

"I've been a cop for 35 years and this is the worst incident of gun violence in my memory anywhere in North America," Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair said at the scene shortly after the bullets stopped flying.

The city's top cop was obviously distraught and had difficulty finding the words to describe how he was feeling about the shooting that he called "unprecedented" for Toronto.

"It's a very shocking event," Blair said. "A lot of innocent people were injured tonight."

It's believed more than 200 partygoers were at the barbecue, described as an annual event by area residents. People were listening to music one second and dodging bullets the next.

Blair said "an altercation broke out among some individuals and there was an exchange of gunfire."

A young teenage girl, whose name was not immediately released, and a man, believed to be about 20, were killed.

Blair said 19 others were wounded by gunfire in the shooting and three were hurt in the stampede as the crowd fled.

An infant was among those struck by bullets, but the chief said the child's injuries are not life-threatening.

"This is the most serious crime of its kind that has ever taken place in the City of Toronto," an emotional Blair said. "I think every citizen in Toronto will be a little shaken up by what has transpired here in Scarborough tonight.

"In one single evening, to have two people lose their lives and 19 innocent people cut down by gunfire, it's a shocking incident," he said, adding he expects people across the country will be stunned.

The aftermath of the terrifying shooting was chaotic.

A total of 16 ambulances, some from the surrounding regions, and the Toronto EMS bus responded to the scene and rounded up victims, some of whom fled the immediate area.

Paramedics assessed patients and whisked them away to Sunnybrook, St. Mike's and Scarborough hospitals as neighbourhood residents -- most of whom were unwilling to talk about the deadly gun violence -- frantically tried to locate loved ones.

"This is unique," Toronto EMS Deputy Chief Garrie Wright said of the mayhem medics faced. "But our paramedics are highly trained. They train for incidents just like this."

Cops from across the city responded to the shooting.

Homicide detectives, officers from the Gun and Gang Unit, Intelligence Unit, ETF and 43 Division all spent the night at the scene gathering evidence and interviewing to witnesses.

"A lot of people fled the scene, but a lot of them have come back and are talking to us," Blair said, adding investigators have some "good leads" and have already made "significant progress."

One man, who was among the wounded, was taken into custody and Blair said he is "a person of interest."

A handgun was found at the scene but the chief said more than one firearm was involved.

"This is a very serious crime and it demands our full effort to bring the persons responsible for this to justice," he said.

Blair offered his "most sincere condolences and support" to the families of those who were killed and injured in the "senseless violence."

"This is a tremendously frightening and tragic event for all involved," he said.

Article link:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/17/19994691.html


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## Jarnhamar (17 Jul 2012)

A house party at 11pm probably isn't the the best environment for an infant.


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## PMedMoe (17 Jul 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> A house party at 11pm probably isn't the the best environment for an infant.



Ya think?   :


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## rmc_wannabe (17 Jul 2012)

I lived down the road from this area. Doesnt surprise me in the least. Prayers for the victims and a hope they catch the perpetrators, however, I don't see this situation changing any time soon.


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## my72jeep (17 Jul 2012)

Now because of a few drunk Idiot's the ban all handguns in Toronto/Canada lobby will start up with renewed vigor.
"You all know this would not have happened if Canadian's were not aloud to have guns," haw haw right we know Dumb f#*ks have legal guns.


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## rmc_wannabe (17 Jul 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Now because of a few drunk Idiot's the ban all handguns in Toronto/Canada lobby will start up with renewed vigor.
> "You all know this would not have happened if Canadian's were not aloud to have guns," haw haw right we know Dumb f#*ks have legal guns.



This isnt a matter of drunk idiots firing at one another. This area is rife with drugs, gangs, and a lot of "old world" mentalities that are accepted by the majority of residents. I would not be phased to hear that the violence was gang related. 

The vast majority of these guns are not bought or sold legally in Canada. Gun control isn't going to solve these issues. It is a convienent scapegoat for politicians and the MSM.


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## Journeyman (17 Jul 2012)

Bass ackwards said:
			
		

> TORONTO -- A barbecue ended in bloodshed as a reckless exchange of gunfire erupted


The point isn't that there was shooting, but that it was "reckless."  Exhale. Pause. Slowly squeeze the trigger......

You'd think they'd learn after the last 'target-rich' shooting at the Eaton Centre.  Toronto -- can't even do gang slayings right   :


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2012)

A large part of the problem with many there is the lack of a good strong, live at home, working for a living father figure.

'Baby Daddies' are not father figures. :

But I'm sure the typical Toronto response of building them more basketball courts will help.

After all, soon we'll be told by their lawyers that they were just starting to turn their lives around, as the Crown gives them bail.


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## my72jeep (17 Jul 2012)

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> The vast majority of these guns are not bought or sold legally in Canada. Gun control isn't going to solve these issues. It is a convienent scapegoat for politicians and the MSM.


I know this you know this every one here knows that. I was being a dumb ass.


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## rmc_wannabe (17 Jul 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> I know this you know this every one here knows that. I was being a dumb ***.



I admire your honest ;D . My sarcasm meter is on the fritz.... need coffee :blotto:


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## PMedMoe (17 Jul 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> A large part of the problem with many there is the lack of a good strong, live at home, working for a living father parental figure.



The picture of the teenaged girl (in the article link) leads me to agree with you on that one.


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## Jarnhamar (17 Jul 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> A large part of the problem with many there is the lack of a good strong, live at home, working for a living father figure.
> 
> 'Baby Daddies' are not father figures. :
> 
> ...



Build 3 basketball courts but only give them 2 balls..


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## Brad Sallows (17 Jul 2012)

The press are remarkably coy about revealing any context of the nature of the party and the people involved.  I think I read the word "gang" three times in two articles.  But that should be enough to reassure people that this is not a problem of neighbours exchanging volleys across the fence during backyard barbeques.


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## R031button (17 Jul 2012)

So who's willing to bet when they do find the people responsible for this, and I use that word loosely, at least one of them will have been on a conditional sentence / probation ?


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## my72jeep (17 Jul 2012)

R031button said:
			
		

> So who's willing to bet when they do find the people responsible for this, and I use that word loosely, at least one of them will have been on a conditional sentence / probation ?


My :2c: 80/20


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## ArmyRick (17 Jul 2012)

Too bad this sh*t is happening. It has been building up over many years and the area is probably rife with problems. I think Canadians as a whole need to really want to "take back" their country. I don't know what the solution is but a knee jerk reaction by City of Toronto or province or Ottawa is not going to solve this mess.

The problem didn't pop up overnight and it will not go away with a quick and easy solution.

Anybody who really knows this area or has lived there got any ideas/suggestions?


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## Bass ackwards (17 Jul 2012)

Excerpts from this CBC article reproduced under the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:
(highlights mine)

*Shooting fallout: TCHC head promises to evict anyone with a gun*

...Gene Jones, who has only recently taken up the post as president and CEO of the housing organization, left no doubt about how he intends to deal with anyone caught with weapons in his housing units.

"We have a gun policy that means no guns at all," Jones told reporters.

He said anyone on TCHC property with a gun will be arrested and he will evict whoever they were visiting."

Jones said the party was supposed to end at 9 p.m., but continued without TCHC permission.

"It didn't stop. It wasn't sanctioned by TCHC."

He said he doesn't have any magic solution but finding jobs for disenfranchised youth could go a long way to keeping them out of gangs.

"Kids have guns that shouldn't have guns," he said. "We just gotta get those guns off the street — plain and simple."

Full article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/17/toronto-danzig-housing.html

***********************************************************************

I think he may have a battle on his hands trying to evict someone on those grounds. I could be wrong, I'm not too up on the current Landlord/Tenant Act.

And does anyone really believe that most -hell, _any_- of those "disenfranchised youths" would actually prefer to get up every day and go to some job ?


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## GAP (17 Jul 2012)

> Shooting fallout: TCHC head promises to evict anyone with a gun



before or after they use them?  :


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## PMedMoe (17 Jul 2012)

Bass ackwards said:
			
		

> And does anyone really believe that most -hell, _any_- of those "disenfranchised youths" would actually prefer to get up every day and go to some job ?



Exactly.  Why go to work at McD's for minimum wage when welfare is free and/or the drug/sex trade is so lucrative?


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## Edward Campbell (17 Jul 2012)

So the TCHC's version of a _mall cop_ is going to confront an armed thug and say, "No, no; no guns here," is that the plan?  :facepalm:


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## Jarnhamar (17 Jul 2012)

What's the difference between justice and punishment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWpK0wsnitc


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## Colin Parkinson (17 Jul 2012)

google map link
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=193+Danzig+St,+ont,+canada&hl=en&ll=43.764613,-79.182302&spn=0.001902,0.003508&geocode=+&hnear=193+Danzig+St,+Scarborough,+Ontario+M1E+2L6&t=h&z=18


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## Bluebulldog (17 Jul 2012)

Bass ackwards said:
			
		

> I think he may have a battle on his hands trying to evict someone on those grounds. I could be wrong, I'm not too up on the current Landlord/Tenant Act.
> 
> And does anyone really believe that most -hell, _any_- of those "disenfranchised youths" would actually prefer to get up every day and go to some job ?



Actually the LTA has been replaced with a new piece of legislation called the Residential Tenancies Act ( RTA) which has given landlords greater powers, particularly with respect to eviction. This is one case where the TCHA could actually follow through on their threat.

However, until the culture of "no snitching" is broken. And the absenteeism of a father figure for many of the youth living in these areas ( Social Housing) is adressed, it's mainly just window dressing. 

Of course the fact that people are out partying on a Monday night, after 2300, and an infant ( maybe more) were also among them has me shaking my head....


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## Bass ackwards (17 Jul 2012)

Thanks for the update Bbd. 
When I lived in Ontario, it just about took an act of Parliament to evict someone.


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## Jarnhamar (17 Jul 2012)

So since a kid drew a gun at school and a father got arrested strip searched and his kids detained by the police and CAS, CAS should be gearing up for a crusade in this neighborhood right?  Kid, party, alcohol, drugs, guns..


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## Bass ackwards (17 Jul 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> So since a kid drew a gun at school and a father got arrested strip searched and his kids detained by the police and CAS, CAS should be gearing up for a crusade in this neighborhood right?  Kid, party, alcohol, drugs, guns..



Nope.
The priority right now is to go after local Canadian Tire and Walmart stores for selling .30-30 ammo to deer hunters. 
I can't wait for Adam Vaughn to weigh in on this.
This may be a crappy thing to say, but I'd be willing to bet that for him, Wendy Cukier and others of their ilk, this incident probably made their day.


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## GAP (17 Jul 2012)

Yeah, they'll latch onto that like bloodsuckers.....


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## Bass ackwards (17 Jul 2012)

Interesting: The other fatality is a 23 year old male named Joshua Yasay.
He graduated from York University last June with an Honours BA in criminology. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/16/toronto-scarborough-shooting.html


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## Journeyman (17 Jul 2012)

Why is that "interesting"?


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## Strike (17 Jul 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Why is that "interesting"?



I think he meant more that it was ironic.


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## Bass ackwards (17 Jul 2012)

Ironic works too. 
I frankly expected someone with a graduate degree in drug dealing, that's all.


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## the 48th regulator (17 Jul 2012)

The area is the home of the Golloway Boys street gang, which was crushed, along with the Malvern Crew, in Project pathfinder. That police sweep netted many big players, which averted an all out war between the gangs.

A good statement I heard on the radio today, is that possibly some of those people are out now, and things could be brewing again.

http://www.rapdict.org/Malvern_Crew

http://www.rapdict.org/Galloway_Boys

http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470840609.html


dileas

tess


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## dogger1936 (17 Jul 2012)

Let's use some frank language that everyone seems to be skating around (no one wants to be labeled as a racist). This is a black immigrant problem. If most of these gang members are from Jamaica and the Caribbean; send convicted gang members packing back to their country of origin.

These people don't need some stupid committee to spend money trying to build a basketball court; they need punishment and consequences.

I fear however that most of these stellar additions to our Canadian family have already procreated in Canada and their "ways" will continue on with a generation of Canadians who can't be deported.


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## the 48th regulator (17 Jul 2012)

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Let's use some frank language that everyone seems to be skating around (no one wants to be labeled as a racist). This is a black immigrant problem. If most of these gang members are from Jamaica and the Caribbean; send convicted gang members packing back to their country of origin.
> 
> These people don't need some stupid committee to spend money trying to build a basketball court; they need punishment and consequences.
> 
> I fear however that most of these stellar additions to our Canadian family have already procreated in Canada and their "ways" will continue on with a generation of Canadians who can't be deported.



I bet, most of these gang bangers are born and bread, second and third generation Canucks.  The closest island they've been to is Centre Island


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## dogger1936 (17 Jul 2012)

John Tescione said:
			
		

> You would be surprised to know, most of these gang bangers are born and bread, second and third generation.  The closest island they've been to is Centre Island



That's what I feared John.


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## the 48th regulator (17 Jul 2012)

Dang, I changed my post too late!

dileas

tess


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## Strike (17 Jul 2012)

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Let's use some frank language that everyone seems to be skating around (no one wants to be labeled as a racist). This is a black immigrant problem. If most of these gang members are from Jamaica and the Caribbean; send convicted gang members packing back to their country of origin.
> 
> These people don't need some stupid committee to spend money trying to build a basketball court; they need punishment and consequences.
> 
> I fear however that most of these stellar additions to our Canadian family have already procreated in Canada and their "ways" will continue on with a generation of Canadians who can't be deported.



Having grown up literally around the corner and still having many friends out there, some living just down the road, I can tell you that these people were born and bred in Scarborough.  You would have to go back quite a ways to find a non-Canadian in their trees.


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## dogger1936 (17 Jul 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> Having grown up literally around the corner and still having many friends out there, some living just down the road, I can tell you that these people were born and bred in Scarborough.  You would have to go back quite a ways to find a non-Canadian in their trees.



Awesome. So law enforcement are about 30-40 years too late I guess. Thanks for the inside view.

At least one of them were lined up to be deported. 
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/13/malvern-crew-gangster-ordered-deported

Sad part is when communities like this hit critical mass of jack***es the good people escape and turns the place into a ghetto. I'm in a part of a city that is "Chav" ville. Looks like a nice quiet neighborhood when you come here house hunting in the day time. Unfortunately that's when all the cockroaches sleep... And if this part of the city in Toronto is anything like here; aside from selling some poisoned crack...there is no fixing it now.


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## Remius (17 Jul 2012)

This my be simplistic but the city needs to come up with a comprehensive strategy.

1- de-criminalise the sex trade.  Lisence it, regulate it, control it.

2- de-criminalise soft drugs.  Same deal as 1.  Then attack the issue the same way you attack cigarette smoking.

3- go after these guys the same way they've started out West.  Get a bunch of by-laws in place like banning tinted windows on cars within city limits.  Find out what clubs, restauraunts, pubs wherever it is they like to hang out.  Get them banned from going to those establishments.  If they don't cooperate, you re-evaluate their liquor lisences, health guidelines etc etc until they do.  Cut the bar hours in some spots.  Curfews in targeted areas.

1 and 2 won't solve the issue.  but it will cut off some of their income.
3 just makes it harder for them to operate.

Rather than take a direct approach go around.


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## Sythen (17 Jul 2012)

Crantor said:
			
		

> If they don't cooperate, you re-evaluate their liquor lisences, health guidelines etc etc until they do.  Cut the bar hours in some spots.  Curfews in targeted areas.



Though I know your mind is in the right place, I have no desire to see the government start dictating who a business can or can not serve. Slippery slopes and all that.


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## The_Falcon (17 Jul 2012)

Prison Camps in the high arctic was a pretty big deterrent in the old USSR, I am sure it would have the same effect here.  Oh and not having activist judges undermining the will of parliament that just happened where a judge declared that Harper's Man/Min provisions for firearms are unconstitutional.  Perhaps Harper should use the notwithstanding clause and give this judge the finger.


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## Rifleman62 (17 Jul 2012)

I lived in Toronto in 1965/66. Many smug Toronto citizens tisk tisted what was happening in Detroit/LA/etc at the time. 

In 1965, 25% of Blacks in the USA did not have a father. Today it is 72.5%. 

We will hear from the left wing toons/gun lobby about about the cause being lack of opportunities and unregistered guns et al.

The cause is second, third, fourth generation welfare. Everything for nothing. Political correctness. Weak-kneed politicians/opportunists.


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## mariomike (18 Jul 2012)

"Toronto EMS deputy chief Garrie Wright said 16 ambulances and an EMS bus were used to carry the wounded to hospital.

But Shannon Longshaw, one of the party organizers, said she had to scream at EMS paramedics to hurry up as the 14-year-old girl lay dying. “They weren’t rushing,” she said."

I'm sure that helped a lot.

 :sarcasm:

Edit to add reference:
Toronto Star July 17, 2012


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## Rifleman62 (18 Jul 2012)

I forgot to add: entitlement.


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## JorgSlice (18 Jul 2012)

mariomike said:
			
		

> "Toronto EMS deputy chief Garrie Wright said 16 ambulances and an EMS bus were used to carry the wounded to hospital.
> 
> But Shannon Longshaw, one of the party organizers, said she had to scream at EMS paramedics to hurry up as the 14-year-old girl lay dying. “They weren’t rushing,” she said."
> 
> ...



Can't say for much in Toronto, but here in BC I see it all the time. Paramedics out here get paid "$X/hr" (possibly about 12 or 15/hr) when on standby, then it jumps to around $30 or $30/hr when they receive a call. They continue to get paid with this "Call rate" until the patient has been brought to hospital, triaged, and the Paramedics radio in that they're cleared from that call.

You should see the number of paramedics out here that take their sweet arse time to do anything, just so they can get paid more. Also, they stand around in the triage area or the ambulance holding area for up to hours even, doing nothing, their patient was transferred into hospital care and they're good to go back out... but they stand there and draw as much money as they can out of the system. I'm not painting them all with the same brush, there are many good, honest and hard-working paramedics... but some... are not.

Ever wonder why it takes so long for an ambulance to show up? Here's part of the answer.


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## The_Falcon (18 Jul 2012)

JorgSlice said:
			
		

> Can't say for much in Toronto, but here in BC I see it all the time. Paramedics out here get paid "$X/hr" (possibly about 12 or 15/hr) when on standby, then it jumps to around $30 or $30/hr when they receive a call. They continue to get paid with this "Call rate" until the patient has been brought to hospital, triaged, and the Paramedics radio in that they're cleared from that call.
> 
> You should see the number of paramedics out here that take their sweet arse time to do anything, just so they can get paid more. Also, they stand around in the triage area or the ambulance holding area for up to hours even, doing nothing, their patient was transferred into hospital care and they're good to go back out... but they stand there and draw as much money as they can out of the system. I'm not painting them all with the same brush, there are many good, honest and hard-working paramedics... but some... are not.
> 
> Ever wonder why it takes so long for an ambulance to show up? Here's part of the answer.



MarionMike will probably correct you, but  your are WAY outside your lanes about T-EMS operates.  1) Paramedics here make an hourly rate, no standby/call rate.  2) They didn't (and don't) rush to calls, because all that does is increase their own heart rate/breathing/andrenaline.  Last thing you as a patient need is a Medic performing possibly life saving interventions, and have them go into the Red before they get to you. 3) EMS response/dispatch times (as well as Fire/Police) here in Toronto (and most of Ontario) are dictated by basically a flowchart.  If your condition is low priority, you get a slower response plain and simple.  4) After the call there is quite a bit a paperwork that the crew has to do before they are back on the road, and thats AFTER the hospital admits their patient, which in Toronto can take quite awhile.


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## JorgSlice (18 Jul 2012)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> MarionMike will probably correct you, but  your are WAY outside your lanes about T-EMS operates.  1) Paramedics here make an hourly rate, no standby/call rate.  2) They didn't (and don't) rush to calls, because all that does is increase their own heart rate/breathing/andrenaline.  Last thing you as a patient need is a Medic performing possibly life saving interventions, and have them go into the Red before they get to you. 3) EMS response/dispatch times (as well as Fire/Police) here in Toronto (and most of Ontario) are dictated by basically a flowchart.  If your condition is low priority, you get a slower response plain and simple.  4) After the call there is quite a bit a paperwork that the crew has to do before they are back on the road, and thats AFTER the hospital admits their patient, which in Toronto can take quite awhile.



Please read the first line where I say: "...can't say anything for Toronto, but here in *BC*..." 

I was not speaking of TO/ON, I was speaking of my experiences working here in BC with, in, and around the BC Ambulance Service.


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## R031button (18 Jul 2012)

JorgSlice said:
			
		

> Can't say for much in Toronto, but here in BC I see it all the time. Paramedics out here get paid "$X/hr" (possibly about 12 or 15/hr) when on standby, then it jumps to around $30 or $30/hr when they receive a call. They continue to get paid with this "Call rate" until the patient has been brought to hospital, triaged, and the Paramedics radio in that they're cleared from that call.
> 
> You should see the number of paramedics out here that take their sweet arse time to do anything, just so they can get paid more. Also, they stand around in the triage area or the ambulance holding area for up to hours even, doing nothing, their patient was transferred into hospital care and they're good to go back out... but they stand there and draw as much money as they can out of the system. I'm not painting them all with the same brush, there are many good, honest and hard-working paramedics... but some... are not.
> 
> Ever wonder why it takes so long for an ambulance to show up? Here's part of the answer.



Big o'le negatory on that one there chief, on call rate for BC Paramedics is $2 an hour, stand by (ie: in the station) is $10.  I won't comment on the active / "call" rate as I couldn't find it with a simple google search, much like how you couldn't find the proper stand by or "on call" rate. BC Paramedics are the worst paid in country, and are treated like garbage despite volunteering for a difficult, stressful, and dangerous job.  Go pick your bone some where else.


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## JorgSlice (18 Jul 2012)

R031button said:
			
		

> Big o'le negatory on that one there chief, on call rate for BC Paramedics is $2 an hour, stand by (ie: in the station) is $10.  I won't comment on the active / "call" rate as I couldn't find it with a simple google search, much like how you couldn't find the proper stand by or "on call" rate. BC Paramedics are the worst paid in country, and are treated like garbage despite volunteering for a difficult, stressful, and dangerous job.  Go pick your bone some where else.



Call-rate for a PCP BCAS Paramedic is $20.57 with less than 5 years of service. Sorry that I got the standby rate wrong, I figured after their last strike that it would have gone up a little. Guess I was wrong.


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## R031button (18 Jul 2012)

Actually you got the stand by rate ( 10 not 15), the on call rate ( 2 ), and the call rate wrong (20 not 30), but you did correct yourself on the call rate so good job. Not that any of this matters and it's all horribly off topic, but hey you took us there with erroneous information.


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## JorgSlice (18 Jul 2012)

R031button said:
			
		

> Actually you got the stand by rate ( 10 not 15), the on call rate ( 2 ), and the call rate wrong (20 not 30), but you did correct yourself on the call rate so good job. Not that any of this matters and it's all horribly off topic, but hey you took us there with erroneous information.



Pending qualification level, it is 30. It all depends on whether they're EMR, PCP, PCP-IV, ACR, ITT/CCR.


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## aesop081 (18 Jul 2012)

Probably a good time for you to be quiet and let this get back on track........ :


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## The Bread Guy (18 Jul 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Probably a good time for you to be quiet and let this get back on track........ :


Good advice.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


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## Bluebulldog (18 Jul 2012)

The issue at hand with this incident, as well as others in the recent past are fairly easy to cite. Taking them on and adressing same on a political level takes a commitment that very few politicians are willing to stomach.

1. The YCJA ( Youth Criminal Justice Act) needs to be severely overhauled / scrapped. There is no deterrent, nor is there anything that promotes reform of the individual or prevention of crime, as every kid over age 11 knows that when they hit 18....presto, clean slate.

2. Immigration reform. The CPC are working on it, but lets face it, they're trying desperately to hang onto, and procure more voters in the GTA, this particular legislation won't do much in that area. 

3. Our social services sector is flawed. Why would any social worker handling a caseload of OW ( Ontario Works, formerly social assistance) want to scrutinize their files, and follow up with clients with the intent of getting them employed, or kicking them off the roles for non-compliance? I have watched intake workers happily push people through, and then become apathetic when they don't do whats required, simply because by creating / perpetuating the crisis, they get to keep their jobs. Instead we have multi-generational social assistance recipients, who have never had an example set as to what it means to be a productive member of society. 

4. The family unit. The fact that many youths in this demographic ( Carribean descent) are growing up fatherless contributes greatly. Again, lack of example set means morals and values are corrupted.

Gun control has no bearing on this issue / incident whatsoever. I'm sure the offenders meant to go register their handhuns...just hadn't gotten around to it.....


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## my72jeep (18 Jul 2012)

Toronto's new brilliant idea. Cant get rid of the gun's ban ammo.

Reproduced under the fair dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/toronto-city-council-curb-gun-violence-160506383.html


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Jul 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Toronto's new brilliant idea. Cant get rid of the gun's ban ammo.
> 
> Reproduced under the fair dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
> 
> ...



You're late to the party.

Adam Vaughn brought his bullet ban motion to council last week. It was voted down. As a matter of fact, Vaughn even voted against his own motion. :

This 'journalist' obviously doesn't read, or listen, to the news or city hall meetings, very much.


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## R031button (18 Jul 2012)

Vic Toews has come out on the other side of this, attacking the recent striking down of mandatory minimal sentences for gun crime.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/18/pol-cp-toews-toronto-shooting-political-reaction.html


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## my72jeep (18 Jul 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> You're late to the party.
> 
> Adam Vaughn brought his bullet ban motion to council last week. It was voted down. As a matter of fact, Vaughn even voted against his own motion. :
> 
> This 'journalist' obviously doesn't read, or listen, to the news or city hall meetings, very much.


Sorry News takes a bit to get to Wawa.


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## Cloud Cover (19 Jul 2012)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> In 1965, 25% of Blacks in the USA did not have a father. Today it is 72.5%.



That's a lot of test tubes.


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## brihard (19 Jul 2012)

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> 1. The YCJA ( Youth Criminal Justice Act) needs to be severely overhauled / scrapped. There is no deterrent, nor is there anything that promotes reform of the individual or prevention of crime, as every kid over age 11 knows that when they hit 18....presto, clean slate.



This fails to take into account the fact that the majority of youth crime is merely testosterone poisoning, and that they literally grow out of it as they get older. Most youth crime is NOT the sort of offence that sent kids to the secure custody facility where I worked for eight months. The norm is not your habitual offenders with an increasing rap sheet of violent or serious offences. Most of it is petty, trivial crap, and in that the YCJA serves brilliantly for affording max discretion to several levels of the system to dispense with criminal prosecution for the sort of stupid crap that probably most of us got into at some point as kids.

There are provisions for adult sentencing for youths in some serious crimes- I've seen it used with the kids I worked with; in first degree murder in one instance, and aggravated sexual assault in another. 

Most youth sentences, however, are given with it in mind that the majority will naturally desist; statistical analyses of patterns of offense clearly show this. The 'clean slate' is so that those who cut it out of their own accord - the majority - have a fair shot at a responsible adult life where they can actually still pursue employment opportunities. That's wholly consistent with the desire to get kids off of one track and onto another.

10% or them get 90% of the attention- negative of course. It's easy to take specific cases and build an emotional appeal around them, but that does *not* make sound policy. There is a lot more society can be doing to help kids. Writing them off as habitual criminals easier and earlier in life, and establishing consequences that will doom their chances at a successful adulthood are not among these options.


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## Bluebulldog (19 Jul 2012)

Brihard,

You're right. I also work within the Justice system, albeit from the court side.

The intent of the YCJA, is and was good. By and large it does what it is supposed to. In areas like Danzig however it stands for You Cant Jail Anyone. People older than 18 exploit the YCJA to their benefit by using kids 12-17 to do much of their "dirty work". Perhaps scrapping it was a bit offside, but overhauling it where escalating offences carry greater penalites, with the proviso in the legislation to carry forward a record of a habitual offender past the age of 18, would be nice ( I know.....in an ideal world).

For a kid to be sent to a secure facility where you were, I would hate to think of the circumstances that eventually led them there.

I find your opening statement interesting.



			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> This fails to take into account the fact that the majority of youth crime is merely testosterone poisoning, and that they literally grow out of it as they get older.



There is a growing upswing in the number of females between the ages of 11-17 committing not only property crime, but violent crime as well. I see them at our courthouse every week. Most of the kids who come here ( mostly white, suburban types) are acutely aware that if they stand in front of the Judge and appear even a little repentant, the judge will have little choice but to give them community service hours, and probation. They then come to work for me working those hours off. There is no deterrent. I can genuinely say that 2 in 5 gets clued in. The others are usually so enamoured of the thug life, that the recitivism rate is pretty high, and we typically see them back over the course of their adolescence.

So scrapped? No, it actually does what it's intended most of the time. Overhauled? Absolutely....it has no teeth currently.


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## The Bread Guy (19 Jul 2012)

Well, _that_ didn't take long to get dragged out _again_ ....





> Politicians in Ontario are urging the federal government to take action in the wake of a shooting at an east-end Toronto street party that left two dead and 23 others wounded.
> 
> Ontario Attorney General John Gerretsen told CBC’s Power & Politics that the recent shooting in Scarborough demonstrates the need for a ban on handguns.
> 
> ...


CBC.ca, 18 Jul 12


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## vonGarvin (19 Jul 2012)

I've had enough.  The problems that are the cause of the recent shooting aren't handguns: they are simply the tools of the trade.  They are inanimate objects, and I'm willing to stake my life that those handguns used weren't properly registered, nor did the owners have the legal right to carry them to the BBQ.  

These people are idiots.  They think that because laws were broken, WE NEED MORE LAWS!  No, our society has enough laws.  Our social network and structure and level of permissiveness and more all contribute to a mindset where thugs will think nothing of bringing weapons to a neighbourhood barbeque.

Society is broken, and it starts at the family unit.  But it doesn't end there.


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## Jarnhamar (19 Jul 2012)

I'd like to see these guys running around with machete's instead of handguns.


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## PuckChaser (19 Jul 2012)

John Gerretsen is my MPP. Time to write a letter!


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## vonGarvin (19 Jul 2012)

Maybe if they made it illegal to have handguns at barbeques...




 :sarcasm:


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Jul 2012)

Outlaw and ban BBQ's.

They're clearly the underlying problem.

No BBQ's, no shootings at BBQ's.

Welcome to Bantario.


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## PMedMoe (19 Jul 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I'd like to see these guys running around with machete's instead of handguns.



Really?  Teen attacked with machete


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## dogger1936 (19 Jul 2012)

I fell under the old YCJA way back when. The system gave me a second chance to smarten up; and my parents the chance to ensure I did. Needless to say their idea of justice was much more stringent than the governments stance!

Freebies like the young offenders act work for youth with normal law abiding families.....I don't see it working in this area.


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## Jarnhamar (19 Jul 2012)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Really?  Teen attacked with machete



0 bystanders injured.
I wonder if Mr Gajan Ponniah is back on the street.


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## mariomike (19 Jul 2012)

Scarborough Mirror
19 July, 2012

SCARBOROUGH SHOOTING: Residents remember ‘chaos’ in area

Melissa Warren-Paul walked by the block party at her Danzig Street townhouse complex five minutes before the shooting. 

“Everyone was having a good time,” she said. “There was a barbecue, music. It was packed.” 

Minutes after she stepped into her home, Warren-Paul heard at least 15 shots. At first she thought they were fireworks. 

“Everyone was just screaming and running,” Warren-Paul said. “I saw three girls coming towards me terrified. I waved them in the house.” 

Moments later, Warren-Paul noticed that one of the girls was bleeding from a gunshot wound. 

Warren-Paul called 911 and wrapped the girl’s wounded arm with a pillowcase. 

“As soon as she realized she was shot, she collapsed,” Warren-Paul said. “We tried to keep her calm. She was panicking.” 

Warren-Paul then went outside to look for her 13-year-old son Tahir while her husband and 11-year-old daughter Rabia tended to the injured 15-year-old girl. 

“I was holding her arm,” Rabia said. “I told her that help was on the way. She started saying, ‘It hurts.’” 

Rabia said the injured teen was going in and out of consciousness. 

“I was very scared, but I didn’t want to panic because then she might get more scared,” Rabia said. “It was hard to stay calm.” 

Warren-Paul returned home after she ran into a woman who said that she saw Tahir and that he was OK. 

She said it took paramedics 30 to 40 minutes to get to her home.

“It was like a war zone. There was blood everywhere,” Warren-Paul said of the shooting scene. “Now I know how people in Syria feel when their cities get bombed.” 

Tahir later called home, and Warren-Paul picked him up from a nearby house. 

Warren-Paul, a 10-year resident of the complex, said her son hid behind a car when the gunfire erupted. “He saw a guy beside him with a gunshot wound to his leg.” 

Warren-Paul said she’s worried about how the neighbourhood children are going to deal with the shooting. 

“I didn’t sleep that night,” she noted. “I’m scared of what’s going to happen next. There are so many victims, and a lot of angry people. Everyone is asking for a transfer out of here.” 

Warren-Paul said the scariest part of the night was “looking for my son and looking at victims to make sure they weren’t him.” 

*** 

Cheryl, who didn’t want her last name published, said she was getting ready for bed when she heard the gunshots. 

She looked out her window and saw a teen girl who was running collapse on her front yard. 

Cheryl ran outside and asked the teen if she had been shot. 

“She said, ‘I don’t know, but my stomach hurts.’ So I picked her up and dragged her into my house,” Cheryl said. “She collapsed on my floor, and I noticed there were about five gunshot wounds.” 

Cheryl said she called 911 but was put on hold for 20 minutes. 

“I was applying pressure on her wounds with towels and clothes and kept telling her help was on the way even though I hadn’t talked to anyone from 911 yet,” Cheryl said. “She was saying, ‘It hurts, it hurts, it hurts. Where’s the ambulance?’” 

After Cheryl got off the phone with emergency services, she saw a friend outside and told him to get a police officer. 

“My friend said the officer told him to get a car and take her to the hospital,” Cheryl said. “It was total chaos. It was like a scene out of a cop movie.” 

Cheryl then called the teen’s mother. 

“I said, ‘I have your daughter inside my house. She’s been shot five times, but she’s OK. Help is on the way, and I’ll let you know more information when I get it,’” Cheryl said. “Her mom asked where she was. She had no idea. I told her I was on Danzig. She said she’s not supposed to be there.” 

Cheryl said the teen was trying to fall asleep but she didn’t let her. 

She said paramedics arrived 50 minutes after she called 911. 

“When the paramedics took the girl, I lost my composure and broke down. I was crying a lot that night,” Cheryl said. “We went to my in-laws for the night. I came back in the morning to clean up. There was blood in my living room.” 

Cheryl said the experience was overwhelming. 

“It was surreal,” she said Wednesday. “I’m still in zombie mode. I’m not sleeping, I’m not eating. It’s too much for anybody to deal with.” 

**** 

Phil Farquharson said he was standing outside his Danzig Street townhouse with his kids when he heard the shots. 

“Then teenagers were running, screaming, crying,” he said. “People were screaming that people have been shot.” 

Moments later, Farquharson saw a teen girl on the ground with her mom and another woman trying to revive her. 

“The mother was freaking out, saying, ‘Help me. Call 911,’” Farquharson said. “While they were pumping her stomach, the mother said, ‘Hold on. Don’t give up.’” 

Farquharson said the women were performing CPR for 20 minutes before paramedics arrived.

The girl, 14-year-old Shyanne Charles, was later pronounced dead at the scene. 

Farquharson noted local residents are frustrated with the state of their townhouse complex. 

“We need a good playground for the kids,” he said. “Our playground is too small and is in bad shape. It’s not being maintained.”
http://www.zuza.com/news-story/1307379-scarborough-shooting-residents-remember-chaos-in-area/

The highlighted times are not official, of course. It's not uncommon for response times to seem longer than they actually are. 

The Star reported, "About an hour after the shooting, ambulances and police cars were still streaming to the area."

"Many residents complained they were left on their own to treat the wounded, not knowing if the shooters were still around, while paramedics sat in their ambulances parked on the street for up to 30 minutes.":
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/18/20002341.html

The paramedics would not be allowed to enter a scene where shots had been fired until directed to do so by TPS. 

Tactical paramedics were also on scene.

Whatever the actual "patient contact" times were, I know they had to respond paramedics from Durham and York regions to the scene for back-up.


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## ModlrMike (19 Jul 2012)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Well, _that_ didn't take long to get dragged out _again_ ....CBC.ca, 18 Jul 12



Not a single legally owned hand gun was used in any of the recent events. I'm sure banning them will have the desired effect.  :facepalm:


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## R031button (19 Jul 2012)

Charges Laid in Toronto street-party Shooting

Toronto police say a 19-year-old man has been charged in connection with the shooting at an east-end street party that left two people dead and 23 others wounded.

Police sent out a news release on Thursday evening advising that 19-year-old Nahom Tsegazab of Toronto had been charged with reckless discharge of a firearm.

The investigation into the shooting continues.

The shooting occurred just after 10:40 p.m. on Monday, in the midst of an outdoor street party on Danzig Street that police say was attended by at least 100 people.

A 14-year-old Toronto teenager and a 23-year-old man from Ajax, Ont., died in the shooting.

Four people have been shot dead on Toronto streets since the start of the week, including the two victims in the Danzig Street shooting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/19/toronto-street-party-shooting-man-charged.html


Good, he's 19 and can stand trial as an adult.


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## a_majoor (19 Jul 2012)

A blogger points out a potential solution (which is not very touchy/feely, nor will it provide a sense of moral superiority or smugness to anyone who actually were to implement this). OTOH, it would actually work:

http://canadiancincinnatus.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/07/the-danzig-street-shootout-in-toronto-and-its-root-cause.html



> *The Danzig Street shootout in Toronto and its root cause*
> 
> Details about the shooting in East Scarborough on Monday evening that left 2 people dead and 25 wounded trickled in bit by bit. On my Tuesday commute, I heard the radio reports. The first thing I thought was, Monday night? Who throws a party Monday night? The second thing was, 25 people injured, including one who was trampled. So this party must have been huge: at least a couple of hundred people, maybe more. I concluded that in these two facts – that the party was on Monday night, and that it was huge – lies the root cause of the problem.
> 
> ...


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## Retired AF Guy (20 Jul 2012)

I think Canadian Cincinnatus has a better solution to the problem then this guy has:



> Some speculative truth about Canada’s new gun crime
> 
> James Sheptycki
> 
> ...



 Article Link 

Re-produced under the Fair Dealings Section of the Copyright Act.


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## dogger1936 (20 Jul 2012)

Why must the media try to spin this as a masculinity issue. This is a Black community problem.

I think MLK would be horribly disappointed.


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## Journeyman (20 Jul 2012)

> Rigorous independent academic research is required. That would provide a strong foundation for evidence-based policy.


 To produce diametrically-opposed conclusions, based on the researchers' predilections? We haven't seen that since......oh, since the Khadr thread earlier today. If only the 'social sciences' were.....you know, _sciences_.




> Images of the heavily armed man pervade our entertainment media, and one constant is that the man with the biggest gun wins in the end.


But we're trying to level the playing field; currently men want to see a movie about a teddy bear, while women are clamouring to see a stripper movie.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Jul 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> while women are clamouring to see a stripper movie.



So do we put the 'caution wet floor' signs outside the magic mike theaters or in the book isle with 50 shades of grey.


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## Retired AF Guy (20 Jul 2012)

> Images of the heavily armed man pervade our entertainment media, and one constant is that the man with the biggest gun wins in the end.



Actually, in most movies/TV shows the drug-dealing bad guys usually end up with there butts getting blown-off by the good guys! So following Mr. Sheptycki's logic (that violent media influences street violence) we should see less violence because the bad guys watching the movies would realize that drug dealing is not a smart career choice and they should find a safer lifestyle.


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## Journeyman (20 Jul 2012)

Yes, Retired AF Guy, not only should they realize this, but they should come to that conclusion much faster than they are!

I say that based on Professor Sheptycki's statement that the "gun is an obvious phallic image," coupled with the assertion by dogger1936 that this "is a Black community problem." I mean, in all the stereotypes......you know, they should therefore be thinking _bigger thoughts_, right? Am I right? 


Damn, they should be paying _me_ for my social sciences contribution here.  :nod:


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## dogger1936 (20 Jul 2012)

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Actually, in most movies/TV shows the drug-dealing bad guys usually end up with there butts getting blown-off by the good guys! So following Mr. Sheptycki's logic (that violent media influences street violence) we should see less violence because the bad guys watching the movies would realize that drug dealing is not a smart career choice and they should find a safer lifestyle.



Not to mention I doubt many of the gang members sits down with a few other guys eating pop corn figuring out the moral messages of movies.

Gangsta rap however I'm sure is more prevalent.


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## HDE (20 Jul 2012)

The A-G of Ontario was on one of the TO radio stations, 1010, and claimed the fewer guns on the streets the safer we'd be (he's pushing the Feds for a handgun ban).  The host, John Moore said he'd done some research and it appears gun control doesn't work.  He questioned where the research is to prove it does.  The Minister's response was...the fewer guns on the street the safer we'll all be...

While I only heard audio I was picturing a guy wishing he could hit the floor and roll for cover or, at very least, not being asked to actually justify what he's pushing for.  And this is the Attorney-General of Ontario!!!


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Jul 2012)

Dalton McGuinty changes AG's the way other people change socks. They all have the same message "Ban handguns". It's not the AG's, it's McGuinty's marching orders.

People killed in Toronto with legal, registered hanguns = 1(Brass Rail, 2008), people killed by Ontario Attorney Generals = 1 (AG Michael Bryant, 2009).

Lets ban Ontario Attorney Generals.

Welcome to Bantario.


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## Sadukar09 (21 Jul 2012)

R031button said:
			
		

> Charges Laid in Toronto street-party Shooting
> 
> Toronto police say a 19-year-old man has been charged in connection with the shooting at an east-end street party that left two people dead and 23 others wounded.
> 
> ...



The people commenting on Yahoo about the accused are unbelievable. It's like presumption of innocence doesn't exist anymore.

I don't even know why I bother posting there.


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## Bass ackwards (21 Jul 2012)

Reproduced under the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:

*Four more people shot in Toronto* 
By QMI Agency

TORONTO - Four more people have been shot in the city, bringing the total to 31 struck by bullets in the past week in Toronto.

Police were called around 9:40 p.m. Friday to a townhouse in the city’s northwest, where they found a man outside who had been shot in the head. He was taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries. One suspect was being sought by police.

About two hours later, two men were found shot in a car in the west end. One was wounded in the arm and the other in the leg. Their injuries were non-life-threatening.

Then, around 4 a.m. Saturday, a man was shot in the stomach in the city’s east end. He is expected to recover.

It is not known if the shootings are related.

On Monday, two people were killed and 23 others injured when shots rang out at a community barbecue in the east end. Nahom Tsegazab, 19, whom police believe was the intended target, was charged with reckless discharge of a firearm but police have not charged anyone in the two homicides.

On Tuesday, Clayton Wright, 42, was gunned down in a parking lot beside a west-end soccer field. His brother, Winston Wright, 38, turned himself into police on Thursday and was charged with first-degree murder.

On Thursday, Daniel Davis, 27, was found shot dead in a west-end schoolyard. Friends said he had attended Monday’s block party.

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty will meet on Monday with Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and Police Chief Bill Blair to discuss how to reduce gun violence.

On June 2, one person was killed and six were injured at the Eaton Centre food court. Christopher Husbands, 23, was charged with one count of first-degree murder and six counts of attempted murder.

Article Link:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/21/20011731.html

***********************************************************************

It's a quagmire...


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## my72jeep (21 Jul 2012)

Simple fix Nuke Toronto. Mutants are easier to deal with.


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## GAP (21 Jul 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Simple fix Nuke Toronto. Mutants are easier to deal with.



Nah....that's just harsh man......

You evacuate all the good people from Toronto.....should take, what, 1 maybe 2 ferries.....you have Lake Ontario right there.....move them a goodly distance from the city...


Then NUKE IT!!

once that little chore is done, pull the plugs on the boats.......

see, simple.....just ask. ;D


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## fraserdw (21 Jul 2012)

Trade Toronto to the Yanks for Maine.  Maine nice, Toronto sucks.


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## a_majoor (23 Jul 2012)

Several bloggers have used this argument in one form or another in the last few days (in response to both the Toronto shootings and the massacre in Colorado). The problem is not with guns (anyone who knows that virtually every household has an automatic rifle stored there by law, and that gun crime is virtually nonexistent in Switzerland realizes this) but rather people who have become detached from the greater culture and have either joined an alternative "culture" (this blogger compares street gangs to hunter gatherer tribes) or have lost their moorings and become sociopathic (like the shooter in Colorado). Banning guns simply removes one set of tools, we have all heard of gang fights where members weild machetes and baseball bats, and a "lone gunman" can equally drive an SUV into a crowded bush shelter or create an IED (a large number were removed from a neighbourhood in Barrie just recently) or start a fire in a crowded theateror shopping mall. The solution (to the extent there is one) requires reworking the entire culture:

http://canadiancincinnatus.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/07/the-batman-shootout-in-denver-and-its-root-causes.html



> *The Batman shootout in Denver and its root causes*
> 
> The shooting in Denver, coming so close after the Danzig St shootout in Toronto, provides us with an interesting if horrific contrast. As I wrote last Thursday, the key to understanding what happened on Danzig St. is one detail: that it occurred at a Monday night block party. In other words, it was exclusively a welfare phenomenon. Working people can’t tie one on on a Monday night. The solution is therefore obvious: put welfare people to work.
> 
> ...



Similar post here: http://bearsrant.blogspot.ca/2012/07/slaughter-of-innocent.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ABearsRant+(A+Bear's+Rant)


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## mariomike (24 Jul 2012)

Saw this in today's news.

"Police-reported crime severity indexes, by census metropolitan area, 2011":
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/120724/t120724b003-eng.htm

The way things have been going lately, it will be interesting to see where Toronto places next year.


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## Journeyman (25 Jul 2012)

Guns DO kill people.

...in _exactly_ the same way that spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.


It's easier to ban tools/implements than to grip people.  :not-again:


Edit: _try_ to ban. Probably same effect -- only fat people will have forks/spoons.   :


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## hagan_91 (7 Sep 2012)

Toronto is looking more and more like a third world refugee camp. Scarborough is over 50 percent minorities, and its beginning to spread east and west as places like Mississauga and Pickering are becoming almost unbearable. The threat of being stabbed/shot/jumped/raped/robbed are becoming very real. If the govt keeps it up Toronto will become a third class city.


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## Scott (7 Sep 2012)

hagan_91 said:
			
		

> Toronto is looking more and more like a third world refugee camp. Scarborough is over 50 percent minorities, and its beginning to spread east and west as places like Mississauga and Pickering are becoming almost unbearable. The threat of being stabbed/shot/jumped/raped/robbed are becoming very real. If the govt keeps it up Toronto will become a third class city.



You had better closely watch your wording, lad.

Scott
Staff


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## hagan_91 (7 Sep 2012)

I no i have to watch my wording and thats whats sad. A white male cant say anything out loud without being "rascist".  But stuff like this can happen and nobody does a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6cLa4xoRo8&feature=related


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## Scott (7 Sep 2012)

This is not us vs. them or us vs. you or anything remotely related.

This is about YOU posting this sort of shit. It is not on and you were warned but decided to take it further. Just because others do things that are dumb does not mean it should be franchised out and copied at will.

Welcome to the warning system, up a couple of notches because you pissed me off.

Scott
Staff


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## Scott (7 Sep 2012)

Please repeat your thoughts to your recruiter.


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