# The Capt. Trevor Greene Thread



## Franko

Just a sign of things to come.....

Speedy recovery to the soldier.....and kudos to the guy who droped the scumbag.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060304/afghan_soldier_060304/20060304?hub=TopStories



> *Canadian soldier wounded in Afghanistan firefight*
> 
> Updated Sat. Mar. 4 2006 8:14 AM ET
> 
> Canadian Press
> 
> KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — A Canadian soldier was wounded after assailants opened fire on a military patrol in Gumbad, 70 kilometres north of Kandahar City, said John Morris, a spokesman for the Department of Defence.
> 
> The soldier, whose name has not been released, was airlifted by U.S. helicopter to the Canadian-led multinational hospital at Kandahar airfield. A military official told CBC the soldier suffered head wounds.
> 
> Canadian troops killed one of the attackers, but the number of assailants is not known.


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## Armymedic

I am going into work today to teach Tactical medicine/Cbt first aid TMST to members of the Battlegroup heading off in Aug...
If they do not pay attention to our instruction after this last 3 days, then they never will...

Hope for a speedy recovery. The care they are getting there is the best the CF can provide.


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## Franko

The troops from 2 Field Amb are going to be busy on this one methinks.....

Regards


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## ERIK2RCR

"For there shall be no reward to the evil man, the candle of the wicked shall be put out" Proverbs 24-20 

There should be no question in anyones mind in regards to our mission in Afghanistan, it is times like there we need solidarity, and the backing of the canadian public. 

My apologies for the biblica quote, i am by no means religious, but the old adage " no athiests in foxholes" holds true.


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## medicineman

Franko said:
			
		

> Speedy recovery to the soldier.....and kudos to the guy who droped the scumbag.



DITTO!  Now maybe people will take training a little more seriously - and maybe give us a budget for things like, oh let me think, bullets and range time, consumable medical supplies for training (my pitch for med trg  ;D) and time and personnel to do it all properly.

MM


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## pbi

medicineman said:
			
		

> DITTO!  Now maybe people will take training a little more seriously - and maybe give us a budget for things like, oh let me think, bullets and range time, consumable medical supplies for training (my pitch for med trg  ;D) and time and personnel to do it all properly.
> 
> MM



I hope that our experiences in Afgh will make us take many things more seriously. All of the best wishes from everybody at CFC to the wounded soldiers of the last few days, and to the family of the fallen Patricia. His father's words set an example that I don't think very many of us could ever match if we were to lose a child.

The months (and years) ahead are going to test both the CF (especially the Army) and the will of the people of this country. We will see if we have what it takes to stick with something that is dangerous and slow, as opposed to quick, frothy and low-risk "flavour of the minute".

Cheers


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## HItorMiss

ArmyMedic, trust me man not a single soldier I know that went through 2 FD Amb's stand from my Coy thought it was a joke or useless, In fact I think I paid more attention in that day and half then the other 2 stands combined, Not that the other stands were bad, well ok the MP run stand was silly and well we wont get into that.

Doc if you get the chance seriously pass on my thanks to your team of guys who worked to set up that stand and put the people through, no matter what happens when we get over there you guys can look at yourself and know you did all you could to save the lives of us sharp end people and passed on some stellar knowledge.

To the topic at hand Pro Patria my VP brothers, hope you recover soonest, and good shooting!


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## Cannonfodder

Was it  a vehicle mounted patrol ? .


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## MikeL

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060303/afghan_canada_bomb_060304

Cdn. soldier injured in axe attack in Afghanistan 
CTV.ca News Staff

A Canadian soldier in Afghanistan is in critical but stable condition after being attacked by a man wielding an axe during a meeting with tribal elders today.

The reservist soldier, Lieutenant Trevor Greene, of Vancouver was initially taken to the Canadian-led multinational hospital at Kandahar airfield where he underwent treatment for head wounds. He will now be airlifted to the U.S. medical facility in Landstuhl, Germany, said CTV's Steve Chao, in Kandahar.

Early reports suggested Greene was injured in a firefight with insurgents. It was later learned that Greene was attacked during a sit-down meeting with tribal elders when a man struck him in the back of the neck with an axe.

"He was surrounded by many local tribesmen as well as Canadian soldiers," Chao told CTV Newsnet. "However as the meeting began, we understand, a man with an axe came out and attacked him. Immediately following there was chaos, Canadian soldiers opened fire, we understand, after some grenades were lobbed by some other attackers.

"The initial attacker with the axe was killed on the spot, however the other one appeared to have perhaps gotten away," Chao said.

The attack happened in Gumbad, about 70 kilometres north of Kandahar City, today.

"At this moment Lt. Trevor Greene is in hospital here at the Kandahar Airfield Base. He is critical condition, in rough shape. He was unconscious the last time we checked." 

This is not the first time Greene has suffered an injury. He was hurt earlier when a convoy he was traveling with was hit by a roadside bomb, however Greene returned to duty after that attack. 

Earlier, Chao said the Gumbad area has been the scene of many attacks on U.S. troops in recent months. It is known for its narrow, twisting roads that provide prime spots for insurgents to mount ambush attacks, making troops feel like "sitting ducks," he said. 

"This area of Gumbad is well known not only to soldiers but to many people in Kandahar. It is a hotbed of insurgent activity," Chao said.

Military commanders have stressed that Canadian troops in Afghanistan will face danger and death to accomplish their purpose.

"The Canadians have been up there trying to push out the Taliban," Chao said. "From the start the Canadian commander said as soon as they took over command, which happened this week, they would begin to push out, make their presence known throughout the province of Kandahar so the Taliban could be pushed out of the area."

It has been a difficult week for Canadian troops. On Friday a suicide bomber drove his vehicle into the side of an armoured vehicle and detonated his explosives, injuring five Canadian soldiers -- one seriously.

Master Cpl. Michael Loewen, who suffered the most serious injuries in the Friday attack, will require major reconstructive surgery to save his arm, a surgeon told The Canadian Press. Loewen was taken to the U.S. combat casualty hospital at Landstuhl, Germany Friday night. 

Four others had minor wounds and will be allowed to return to duty. 

The Friday attack came as coalition forces were mourning the death of Canadian Cpl. Paul Davis, who died Thursday when his armoured vehicle rolled over.

A suicide bomb killed Canadian diplomat Glyn Berry six weeks ago. 

In total, two Canadians have died and about 20 have been injured in Afghanistan this year, as the Canadian presence in Afghanistan increased to about 2,200 troops.


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## MikeM

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I am going into work today to teach Tactical medicine/Cbt first aid TMST to members of the Battlegroup heading off in Aug...
> If they do not pay attention to our instruction after this last 3 days, then they never will...
> 
> Hope for a speedy recovery. The care they are getting there is the best the CF can provide.



Armymedic, 

Went through your stand the other day, thought the information and training provided was excellent, and the scenarios really get you thinking.


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## davidprogreso

Greetings Big Bad John, wherever you are...this is David Progreso writing from Yucatan Mexico,

That was a very nasty blow...best wishes for a speedy recovery

I was last in Afghanistan about forty years ago. Kabul, was the only place in Asia where you could write a personal cheque and the
money changer would give you Afghanis on the spot. Are they still there in their little wooden shacks?

My last indirect contact with Afghanistan was in Calcutta in 1990.It was a visit with Field Marshall retd Sam Manekshaw,Indian Army...a great warrior.

He was in his eighties, but very chipper. Told some great stories about his time in the Northwest Frontier Province...where the Cdns are now.

I can still recall the gleam in his eye when he said..."Chased the bandits in the hills for six months, and then the ladies in Bombay for two..it was a good life for a young fellow".

While you are in Afghanistan look for lapus lazuli...it is a very positive gemstone...and beautiful too.

And if you have stomach problems...it may be giardia. Hard to diagnose, but can really slow you down.

cheers


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## GINge!

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I am going into work today to teach Tactical medicine/Cbt first aid TMST to members of the Battlegroup heading off in Aug...



OT:
Is this the only time they will get Tac Med trg during TMST? It seems to me that having 7 months between the training event & deployment is going to allow for a fair bit of skill fade.


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## tomahawk6

Having read the account of the incident it seemed to me the Lt's attacker violated Afghan custom in attacking a guest.


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## Franko

....er.....BIG time.

Regards


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## Franko

Development.......

Guys in theater take note!



> *Afghan villagers won't say who axe-wielding attacker of Canadian was*
> 19:14:46 EST Mar 4, 2006
> LES PERREAUX
> 
> 
> 
> KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - The attack sounds like the work of a madman, an axe-wielding attempt at murder rather than an act of war.
> 
> Lieut. Trevor Greene was chatting with dozens of elders near his forward base in Gumbad when an Afghan villager pulled an axe with a 60-centimetre handle from inside his clothing.
> 
> The villager, in his 20s, held the axe high over Greene's head and yelled "Allah Akbar" - God is Great - the signature call of an Islamist suicide attacker.
> 
> The man fulfilled his destiny. He delivered his nearly lethal blow and then died where he stood, his body riddled with bullets from Capt. Kevin Schamuhn and two of his fellow soldiers.
> 
> Schamuhn, Greene's platoon commander, was sure Greene was dead.
> 
> "It was my initial assessment that Trevor was dead on impact because of the force with which the axe hit his head," Schamuhn recounted Saturday.
> 
> "Fortunately, that was not the case."
> 
> The notion the act was of a lone maniac quickly disappeared.
> 
> While villagers scattered in all directions, enemy small-arms fire broke out from across the river. Canadians and their Afghan allies returned fire. Then, as things calmed slightly, another man moved toward coalition forces and tossed a hand grenade.
> 
> The Afghans and Canadians returned fire again as the grenade exploded harmlessly. Schamuhn believes the man was hit but the grenade attacker scurried away in the mayhem.
> 
> As things calmed down, a U.S. Blackhawk helicopter whisked Greene away to a Canadian hospital at Kandahar Airfield. He remains there in serious condition, awaiting a plane ride to Germany and home.
> 
> The Afghans and Canadians went into the village to find answers. All they found were seven old men and some women and children.
> 
> "There were no fighting-age males there," said Schamuhn.
> 
> "The leaders we had been speaking to earlier had disappeared and all the young men that we were talking to had disappeared."
> 
> No villager would say who the dead attacker was.
> 
> The platoon from Company A of the Princess Patricia's Light Infantry brigade in Afghanistan was making a series of stops in small villages Saturday from their forward operating base 70 kilometres north of Kandahar.
> 
> Moving into rural areas is a key part of Canada's plan to bring security and reconstruction to Kandahar province.
> 
> Villagers in a meeting hours earlier welcomed them with blankets and bread and meats.
> 
> The meetings with local leaders are known as shura and are key to getting anything done in rural areas.
> 
> The fateful meeting was off to a good start when the attacker struck, Schamuhn said.
> 
> The first hint of trouble could only be seen in the light of hindsight, he said.
> 
> *"About two or three minutes prior to the incident, all the children that were present were escorted away, about 20 to 30 metres away," Schamuhn recalled.*
> 
> "But none of us picked up on this, there was no weird feeling, no gut feeling that something was about to go down."
> 
> Schamuhn has grown to trust villagers through dozens of encounters. He and Greene had removed their helmets and set down their arms in a sign of respect and trust.
> 
> "I'm sure I've shaken hands with some people who have plotted against us," he said.
> 
> "You can't tell."
> 
> Schamuhn said he had started to believe the oft-repeated Afghan contention that foreigners are causing all the trouble. He doesn't believe it now.
> 
> "This guy, he was a local villager from this village who was coerced or persuaded by some outside force to do this against us," Schamuhn said.
> 
> "We were completely vulnerable to them and they took complete advantage of that. There was a lot of people who knew what was about to happen."
> 
> Schamuhn and his men were back Saturday night in their small camp near Gumbad. They stay in a mud-walled farmers compound, with razor wire providing an outside ring of security.
> 
> Schamuhn said his men are fine, although sleep would not come easy this night. They are warriors, he said.
> 
> "My guys are ready to fight again. They're ready to go back out and do their job."
> 
> "They are ready to go and protect and continue on this mission. They are not afraid."
> 
> 
> 
> © The Canadian Press, 2006


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## Scoobie Newbie

They even break their own customs.  This can't reflect well on the other tribes.


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## Armymedic

So lets AAR that article:

1. The notion af Afghan men not wishing to see Allah sooner, and martyring themsevles seems not to be correct any more,
2. When the children are being herded away from you as a soldier, put your guard up, and
3. If something. no matter how insignificant is different or seems out of place...it probably is for a reason. They made it that way.


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## Argyll_2347

I really hope Lt. Greene makes a full recovery.

I met him during the North Saskatchewan Regiment's Armistice Ball this past November, when I sat beside him at the dinner table.  We started talking the regular chit-chat, and he asked what I was taking at university, and I mentioned International Studies... but thinking about leaving that and taking Journalism instead.  Then he told me that he was a journalist and we just hit it off after that... with him feeding me with lots of stories and advice. 

Such a weird feeling when you go to the CBC website, notice that another soldier has been injured in Afghanistan... click on the story, and see someone that you know.


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## Hunter

I read an article on a Canadian media website that named one of the soldiers that shot and killed the attacker.  Good on him, that attack was the height of cowardice, but seems to be par for the course for these people.  Best wishes to Lt. Greene, I've never met him but from what I've read here he seems like a helluva guy. 

But isn't there a restriction on publishing the names of soldiers in that context, as killing someone?  It struck me as a little odd, I don't think I've ever seen it before.  Doesn't that kind of thing pose a risk to his family?


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## Wookilar

It is against policy to "officially" release the names of CF members involved in shootings of any kind. However, don't forget that has nothing to do with some civvy reporter that was on scene (or heard from loose lips back in camp) putting the name out there.
My family's best to the Lt.   (ninerdomestic wanted that noted)


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## DFW2T

Armymedic said:
			
		

> So lets AAR that article:
> 
> 1. The notion af Afghan men not wishing to see Allah sooner, and martyring themsevles seems not to be correct any more,
> 2. When the children are being herded away from you as a soldier, put your guard up, and
> 3. If something. no matter how insignificant is different or seems out of place...it probably is for a reason. They made it that way.


Excellent points ARMYMEDIC!
Godspeed to a speedy recovery for Mr. Greene.
My condolences and thoughts to his family and friends.
And *BRAVO ZULU * to his platoon!

Although my ROEs differ to those of the CF,  I tell my guys......................................If in doubt..........SHOUT.....SHOOT (if necessary)
   shouting will heighten the teams perceptions of danger and impose a certain level of anxiety in potential aggressors...making them easier
   to ping.

Then I tell them my ROEs (and mine only) .......*Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!*

Keep your head up..your a$$ down and shoot straight
DFW2T


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## armoured_officer

Afghanistan axe attack victim promoted to captain 
CTV.ca News Staff

The Canadian soldier who is in serious condition after he was struck with an axe during a meeting with tribal elders in Afghanistan has been promoted to captain.

Lt. Trevor Greene was struck on the back of the neck Saturday during a sit-down shura meeting with tribal elders on Saturday. The Vancouver, B.C. reservist, journalist and published author was taken to Germany for treatment Sunday morning in serious condition.

"He was promoted to captain, which is a promotion he was entitled to anyway and he went on the mission before the promotion came through, so they gave it to him this morning before he got on that flight to Lanstuhl, Germany, the U.S. military hospital," said CTV's Lisa LaFlamme. 

"He is in serious but stable condition," she told CTV Newsnet. 

The "barbaric" attack has stunned Canadian forces at the Kandahar Airfield base, but hasn't affected their commitment to the task at hand, Laflamme said.

The shura meetings are an important part of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. They provide the opportunity for military personnel to sit down with tribal leaders and discuss their concerns in an informal setting, in order to build trust.

But the meetings, as they have been conducted so far, leave the troops vulnerable because they typically remove their helmets and lay their guns down beside them in a gesture of goodwill.

The policy may now have to be revisited.

"This morning when we asked Col. Tom Putt (Canadian deputy commander in Afghanistan) will there be changes, he said the one thing he could say for sure is these shuras are a key element of the Canadian mission here. It is absolutely essential that they engage the locals and build that trust and help them rebuild their communities. It's critical," LaFlamme said.

"What they will be looking at however, is their procedure and how these are conducted and whether or not perhaps in the future they'll leave the helmet on or the gun closer, this kind of thing. But they are 100 per cent sure they will not stop the shuras." 

Capt. Kevin Schamuhn, the platoon commander, described what took place during the attack.

"The guy lifted up the axe, and called out Allah Akbar, the jihad prayer, before they do suicides, and he swung the axe into Trevor's head," Schamuhn told CTV News on Saturday.

Canadian soldiers shot and killed the attacker, who was in his 20s.

Once the attack on Green happened, Schamuhn said: "There was a whole bunch of explosions and a pretty heavy volume of fire. It turns out we were under fire from the south of the river, which is on the adjacent bank."

Later, another insurgent attempted to throw a grenade at the troops but was unsuccessful.

After the firefight, Afghan and Canadian soldiers found all fighting-age men had deserted the village, and only women and children and the elderly were still present.

LaFlamme said the soldiers believed Greene had been killed by the attack until a medic inspected him and found that he still had vital signs.

Well deserved!!!!! ;D


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## McG

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> Well done to the soldier that shot the bastard


You mean the soldier*s*.

All,
I've recently learned it is now Capt Greene.  His promotion is effective some time in Feb, and the intent was to give it to him when he returned to KAF from this latest trip out.


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## geo

The fact that all able bodied men in the village skipped out after the incident can probably be chalked up to survival instincts kicking into high gear (and their being certain that our troops would not take it out on the Women, children & the elders).
Such is the burden of "civilisation" that we all carry.

Best wishes to the good Captain

Keep your guard up!


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## Franko

More info on the attack......

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141513810511&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

Regards


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## Slim

Sick f*cks!


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## tomahawk6

Greene was promoted to Captain before he was put on the medevac flight to Germany.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060305/afghan_canada_bomb_060305/20060305?hub=TopStories


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## Scoobie Newbie

There is no way that not one person in that village knew what was going to happen.


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## Proud Canadian

How can you help a country that is not willing to help themselves. Scorch the ground those b'tards walk on.

Okay not the appropriate comment I made at the time. Just pissed and ranting after hearing the news that our country lost another soldier


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## armyvern

Proud Canadian said:
			
		

> How can you help a country that is not willing to help themselves. Scorch the ground those b'tards walk on.


Wow. What assinine comments these are. Thankfully, the great majority of "Proud Canadians" and soldier's do not have the so-obviously misinformed viewpoint of yourself. Fact of the matter is, the great majority of the Afghani population does want peace and supports our efforts in their nation, which, I hope to hell, mis-informed clunkers like yourself keep out of as the presence of attitudes like yours in-theatre will do little to advance either our cause or Afghani progress.


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## Michael Dorosh

Whiskey_Dan said:
			
		

> That's absolutely F*cking sick!
> My thoughts and prayers go out to Capt Greene and his family.
> God Speed
> 
> Dan



It's nothing that hasn't been seen before, though, has it - you have a third world nation with people devoted to fighting for their way of life. They're not going to play fair.  We can call it "sick" all we want, and no doubt it is by our standards - but like so many underequipped, undercivilized, undereducated armies through history - I am sure there were Viet Cong troopers dumb enough to bring an axe to a gunfight -  demonizing the enemy will unfortunately not do anything to make the work any easier, or bad news any easier to bear.  Let's hope the enemy sees the light sooner rather than lighter; and if they don't, let's hope they come out in the open and we can do to them what the US did to the VC after Tet, and eradicate them - hopefully without drawing first world soldiers into the theatre.  Hopefully the good captain is up and writing again soon; will be interesting to read the story that comes out of his experiences there, given his literary background and his devotion to the people there (the news said he planned to stay there after his military service was up).


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## Lost_Warrior

All the best for his recovery.  

Sometimes I really think hard and wonder what Canada has become in this day and age.  Your average Canadian would just as well spit on this guy in the streets, but hundreds gather for a fallen police horse in Toronto...  :


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## mover1

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> All the best for his recovery.
> 
> Sometimes I really think hard and wonder what Canada has become in this day and age.  Your average Canadian would just as well spit on this guy in the streets, but hundreds gather for a fallen police horse in Toronto...  :



Thats a rather broad and encompassing statement.....your average Canadian would rather ask a lot of innane questions about our relevance. Only because they are un-informed about what we do.


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## Lost_Warrior

> Thats a rather broad and encompassing statement.



I agree.  It is a broad encompassing statement, and it is one based completely on my personal experience with civilians.


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## the 48th regulator

> Your average Canadian would just as well spit on this guy in the streets, but hundreds gather for a fallen police horse in Toronto...



Were you in Toronto for Ainsworth Dyer's funeral?

I suggest you re-think your statement, as I am sure it is based on assumptions.

dileas

tess


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## regulator12

I know that lately there has been more and more news time for the Canadian Army and people do care when a Canadian is killed or injured however in defence of lost warrior i feel that there is some truth to what he says. Do to misinformation whatever i know personally a lot of people who cared more about who won an olympic medal then what was going on in Afganistan...my own local news interviewed people on the street about Afganistan and most of them all said negative things and not one of them said that they support our troops or even seemed to give a dam about the casualties that occured. The military community is small and cares about there own, but from what i have seen in my own experiance once to venture out of the military community and enter certain urban areas you can see how little certain people care. I think that some of lost warrior assumptions are not far off base, its not the view of the average canadian i am sure but i dont think people show enough support and understanding for what is going on over there.....


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## the 48th regulator

Dyer's gathering was large, and made up with many civilians, and not once did I see anyone get spat on.

Again, I say rethink that opinion, as I am sure it is all based on assumption.  The general populace may not always agree with government policies in regards to the military, but I have seen a positive support of the everyday troop.  

No one would spit on a serving, injured, or a troop who has ended his duty.  His statement alludes to the fact that people would have more time to go to a memorial for a police horse than that of a soldier, and I am challenging that statement as I have seen otherwise.

I think we desrve to show Canadian civillians a bit more respect ourselves, as it is a two way street.

dileas

tess


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## Michael Dorosh

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I think we desrve to show Canadian civillians a bit more respect ourselves, as it is a two way street.



Couldn't agree more.  This whole "oh woe is me" attitude is embarrassing.  If anyone here feels they aren't getting enough attention on an individual basis, feel free to 

a) move to where people appreciate you (most of the country, from what I can tell)
b) re-examine why you are in the military to begin with.
c) stop watching reruns of Ten-Thousand Day War on PBS.  You know, there were even units from returning from Vietnam that got brass bands and parades.  Not a lot of them, but the relatively small number of spitting incidents received a lot of attention in later years and caused much (deserved) bitterness among returning veterans.  Either way, it has nothing to do with Canada.


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## combat_medic

Tess, not to contradict you, but here in Vancouver I have had random civvies throw things at me, yell obscenities (baby killer, among others) and other mistreatment. This was just me walking or driving to reserves in uniform. No weapons, by myself, and minding my own business. I don't think all civvies are like that, but there are certainly some who like making our lives difficult, at least here on the left coast.


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## the 48th regulator

combat_medic said:
			
		

> Tess, not to contradict you, but here in Vancouver I have had random civvies throw things at me, yell obscenities (baby killer, among others) and other mistreatment. This was just me walking or driving to reserves in uniform. No weapons, by myself, and minding my own business. I don't think all civvies are like that, but there are certainly some who like making our lives difficult, at least here on the left coast.



As so have I here in Toronto, but quantify it, and compare it  with the amount of positive Support and back slapping I have received, the negative incidents were negligible.

dileas

tess


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## mover1

combat_medic said:
			
		

> Tess, not to contradict you, but here in Vancouver I have had random civvies throw things at me, yell obscenities (baby killer, among others) and other mistreatment. This was just me walking or driving to reserves in uniform. No weapons, by myself, and minding my own business. I don't think all civvies are like that, but there are certainly some who like making our lives difficult, at least here on the left coast.



Vancouver....home of the misinformed hippie...
but they will be the first one screaming for our assitance when the big erthquake hits..


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## Caleix

Lots of things could have been done then, the important thing here is to learn from mistakes and move on so that this doesnt happen again. Like most here, im only going on 2nd hand knowedge of what happened.....so lets not forget whats important here.....our Cpt. Greene comes out of this mess as good as new and we dont forget what happened, for the sake of our troops over there now. Let me know if im wrong.....
Caleix


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## tomahawk6

This is not the thread for a critique. If thats what you want to do start a different thread.


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## regulator12

A guy just jumped out and attacked him? Thats the problem right there, they were in a meeting with supposedly had all around defence or what? No guy should have even got close to the Captain in the meeting they should have had a perimeter set up and not let anyone near the meeting....There reaction to the event was great, but i dont think that an axe attack like that should have happend. I wasnt there and dont know if the media has told the whole story but from what we have been told, it seems like something failed in my mind....


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## the 48th regulator

regulator12 said:
			
		

> A guy just jumped out and attacked him? Thats the problem right there, they were in a meeting with supposedly had all around defence or what? No guy should have even got close to the Captain in the meeting they should have had a perimeter set up and not let anyone near the meeting....There reaction to the event was great, but i dont think that an axe attack like that should have happend. I wasnt there and dont know if the media has told the whole story but from what we have been told, it seems like something failed in my mind....



I guess that is based on your experience, eh? 

dileas

tess


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## regulator12

no its not just stating my opinion, which others had done is state there opinion....i dont know what happend, glad that they are ok, and i am sure they will learn from there mistakes.


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## George Wallace

OK


TIME OUT


READ the whole Topic first.  The guy who fired the first shot to drop the assailant was 'silentbutdeadly!', a member of this forum and he has already posted in this thread.

Suck back and reload, before posting.


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## regulator12

I have read the whole thread, I wont say anymore as i dont want to take this thread off topic and start a flame war....i stated my opinion at that was all.


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## m410

CBC has a photo collection of a different shura that gives you a feeling for what this was like.  Think "town hall".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/photogalleries/afghanistan_kandahar/kandahar3.html?gallery=kandahar3


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## Franko

If you haven't been in theater and know how these things go down, then leave the comments as to TTPs and such out of your posts.

The troops did their job....and a damn good one at that.

We weren't there....we can't comment, period.

Regards


----------



## the 48th regulator

regulator12 said:
			
		

> no its not just stating my opinion, which others had done is state there opinion....i dont know what happend, glad that they are ok, and i am sure they will learn from there mistakes.





			
				regulator12 said:
			
		

> I have read the whole thread, I wont say anymore as i dont want to take this thread off topic and start a flame war....i stated my opinion at that was all.



You opinion is not based on fact or experience.  You should not throw out a judgement call, then hide behind the statement "it's my opinion".

I am glad you will not say anymore, a slight suggestion based on my opinion is to stay in your lane.  Tossing out off the cut remarks, and suggesting an error was made, is out of order.  Especially when you offer a tactical reasoning behind your "opinion" based on absolutely no experience in "My opinion"

dileas

tess


----------



## geo

least regulator12 could do is fill in his profile so we can assure ourselves of what his pedigree happens to be. (and that's my opinion)


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Franko said:
			
		

> If you haven't been in theater and know how these things go down, then leave the comments as to TTPs and such out of your posts.
> 
> The troops did their job....and a damn good one at that.
> 
> We weren't there....we can't comment, period.
> 
> Regards



Agree with your first sentence.  But isn't saying they did "a damn good job" also a comment?   You don't know that either, really.

Other than well wishes I'd suggest there is nothing anyone can say here - besides the dude that was on the scene of course  - that won't be speculation.  So here's to hoping the rest of the troops stay safe.


----------



## the 48th regulator

> But isn't saying they did "a damn good job" also a comment?   You don't know that either, really.



They stopped the nutcase from axing anymore, and fought off any further attack from the others.

I would say that Franko's comments were correct..

dileas

tess


----------



## HDE

If driving an axe into the head of one of our soldiers doesn't justify shooting the guy I'd love to hear what does.  Only in Canada would we wallow in such second-guessing of the guys on the ground :threat:


----------



## m410

HDE said:
			
		

> If driving an axe into the head of one of our soldiers doesn't justify shooting the guy I'd love to hear what does.  Only in Canada would we wallow in such second-guessing of the guys on the ground :threat:


Nobody, anywhere, has said anything of the kind, HDE.


----------



## scm77

*Is Afghanistan Canada's Iraq?*
_The confusion surrounding the mission — one day to kill, the next to build — has blurred lines_
Mar. 6, 2006. 01:00 AM

Axe attack

March 5.

The "raw brutality" of the axe attack on Canadian soldier Lieut. Trevor Greene in Afghanistan, carried out by a teenager whose eyes were reportedly "poisoned with hatred," is a sad and haunting mirror to a reality of violence that the now deceased young man — *pumped full of 14 Canadian bullets despite standing "frozen" after the attack — has no doubt witnessed his whole life. **Why he was not arrested, charged, and tried, perhaps to understand how and why this attack occurred, is a major unanswered question.*

My thoughts and condolences go out both to Greene and his family, who are no doubt traumatized by this act of violence; to the Canadian soldiers who killed the teenager, because no one is the same after killing a fellow human being and to the Afghan teen who, along with his own family, has doubtless experienced a lifetime of foreign-inspired violence.

The Star claims a group of heavily armed Canadian soldiers "came in peace," and in their own minds, at that particular hour, that is no doubt what they were thinking. But how is the local villager supposed to know this when, as the Star has reported in the past, there is no perceived difference between U.K., U.S. and Canadian troops when it comes to the daily depredations committed against Afghans by foreign occupation forces?

The confusion surrounding the mission of Canadian soldiers (one day to kill, the next to build) is a problem which has been pointed out by development agencies, who say the blurring of the line between the two distinctive missions has forced development aid workers out of countries like Afghanistan, because if there's anything Afghans do not like, it is armed occupation. And understandably so.

Ultimately, the question that has yet to be answered is whether Afghanistan is Canada's Iraq — an unwanted occupation that ultimately has more to do with global politics and gas pipelines than truly working to end poverty and violence.

Matthew Behrens, Toronto

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010437&call_pageid=968332189003&col=968350116895

 :


----------



## Pte_Martin

Nice It's great how we have Defend why we are there to people like that


----------



## m410

I stand corrected.

That said, it was a letter (not an editorial) from a looney-looney leftist to a looney left newspaper.  I don't think its particularily indicative of the opinion of the mainstream left (and I'm the first to criticise them).


----------



## big bad john

Franko said:
			
		

> If you haven't been in theater and know how these things go down, then leave the comments as to TTPs and such out of your posts.
> 
> The troops did their job....and a damn good one at that.
> 
> We weren't there....we can't comment, period.
> 
> Regards



Perfectly stated!


----------



## Hunter

Today one of my co-workers had the temerity to ask me how I felt about the little axe-boy f#ck's family's loss.  I couldn't believe it!!  I swear to god I felt myself go white when she said it.  There was a huge silence as people's jaws dropped at what she said, and I just walked away.  

As I write the Lisa LaFlamme's report is on CTV.  The thing that really amazes me with the situation is that it seems more than a few people in the village knew about it.  UN-real.

Something occurs to me about some of the comments in this thread.  It's been mentioned on this site that the media has quoted army.ca, and it would seem that members of the media look at this site from time to time.  Let's be careful about second-guessing the tactics used.  The headline in many newspapers today was "Military Re-thinks Afghan Mission".  The headline was later clarified in the online editions to read "Military Re-thinks Afghan Tactics".  I get the feeling the media is on a fishing expedition, and I think we can all agree that the last thing we need is a lefty paper taking some comments out of context and leading with the headline "Dissention in the Ranks".

I'm not a particularly religious guy but tonight I do feel compelled to say a prayer for Capt. Greene.  

I hope you all do the same.

Hunter out.


----------



## big bad john

A clear article on what happened.  http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/05/news/afghan.php

  Afghan villager attacks Canadian soldier with ax  
By Ruhullah Khapalwak and Carlotta Gall The New York Times

SUNDAY, MARCH 5, 2006


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan: In a dramatic example of the hostilities that continue in Afghanistan, despite military efforts to bring assistance to the remotest parts of the country, a Canadian soldier was badly wounded by an ax-wielding youth in a meeting with village elders in southern Afghanistan, a Canadian military press statement said Sunday.

The attacker was immediately shot and killed by Canadian troops. The soldier, wounded in the head, was reported later to be in a coma.

The soldier, Lieutenant Trevor Greene, was leading a mission in the village of Shinkay and was meeting with village elders Saturday afternoon to discuss their reconstruction needs.

"Lieutenant Greene had removed his helmet as a sign of respect, as is common practice for military personnel involved in shuras," the statement said, referring to village gatherings.

A tribal leader from the village, Haji Muhammad Isa, said the attacker was a 16-year-old named Abdul Karim, the son of a shoe repairman. Isa was not at the gathering but said he had learned of the incident from those who had been present. He was contacted by telephone.

Shinkay is in a remote mountainous region of Kandahar Province, where there have been frequent attacks on foreign troops and Afghan government personnel. Taliban forces have long operated in the region; they mount ambushes and retreat into the mountains when challenged.

The Canadian unit is part of the U.S.- led coalition force in southern Afghanistan. About 2,200 Canadian soldiers have been deployed in Kandahar.

In the commotion after the attack, villagers fled and one lobbed a grenade, but no one was wounded, the statement said. Afghan National Army soldiers who were with the Canadian patrol opened fire and fired a rocket-propelled grenade, the statement said.

The Canadian military said there were no reports of casualties from the exchange, but Haji Isa said a man, a girl and a boy had been wounded. The Afghan police returned to the village Sunday and were searching houses, he said.

He said Abdul Karim was not a member of the Taliban, nor was anyone in his family, and he helped his brothers working on their farm. "He was a very quiet boy and not talkative," he said. None of his family had been arrested or killed to give any reason for revenge, but Americans had searched the village several times, he said.

Greene was evacuated by helicopter and was operated on at the Kandahar air base before being transferred to the U.S. military hospital at Landstuhl, Germany.

Two Canadian soldiers died this week when their vehicle overturned in an accident. Another soldier was wounded in a suicide bomb attack.

In the neighboring province of Uruzgan, attackers burned two trucks of food belonging to the World Food Program that were destined for poor families in a remote village.

Across the border in Pakistan, heavy fighting between Pakistani troops and militants continued through the night but seemed to die down Sunday as hundreds of people were reported to be fleeing.

The fighting has been some of the most serious since the army started to root out foreign fighters from bases in Waziristan two years ago, and the government appeared to have lost control, for a few days, of Miramshah, the main town in North Waziristan.

Telephone lines remained cut and reports were sketchy, but an army spokesman, Major General Shaukat Sultan, claimed that the militants, both tribesmen and foreign fighters, had been forced to retreat from Miramshah, The Associated Press reported.

The fighting had been raging for several days since an army raid on a militant training camp on Wednesday. Militants and their supporters attacked Miramshah, seizing control of the telephone exchange and other government buildings and firing rockets and missiles at the government compound and army base outside the town. Fighting was also reported in the town of Mir Ali.

Sultan said 46 militants had been killed in the four days, as well as five soldiers, but it was impossible to verify the casualties independently. The Associated Press reported that at least two civilians had been killed.

Carlotta Gall reported from Islamabad. 

 [Edited to remove multiple copies of same article]


----------



## MikeL

Soldiers tell harrowing tale of Afghan ambush 
CTV.ca News Staff

A Canadian military officer believed an ancient code of honour would protect himself and his colleagues when they sat down for a routine tribal meeting in an Afghan village.

But after witnessing an axe-wielding assailant attack his fellow officer, he feels he has been proven wrong.

Capt. Kevin Schamuhn says his faith in the unwritten rule of the shura, that a guest must be welcomed and protected, has been corrupted.

"Everything I've been taught about Islam, everything I've been taught about the Pashtun code of honour, has just completely been defiled in a horrifying way," Schamuhn told CTV's Lisa LaFlamme in Afghanistan.

Capt. Trevor Greene was conducting a shura, a meeting with village elders meant to promote peace, when a teenager pulled an axe from his coat and struck him in the head.

"I can expect someone shooting at me. I can expect someone throwing a grenade at me, as weird as that sounds ... I'm ready for that. But someone taking an axe and attacking someone like that ... that replays in our head," Sgt. Rob Dolson said.

Greene had removed his helmet as a sign of respect as he sat down Saturday to discuss reconstruction needs with elders in Shinkay, a village 70 kilometres north of Kandahar. 

Soldiers routinely lay down their weapons and remove their helmets as a goodwill gesture. But it's a gesture the military is now re-evaluating.

When asked if he would take his helmet off again, "probably not," Dolson was quick to respond.

While the soldiers had been trained to engage the enemy at close range, the attack on their colleague was shocking all the same.

"Things slow down, events like that everything seems to be in slow motion but yet fast at the same time," Pte. Matt McFadden said.

But their shock was fleeting. Schamuhn and McFadden instinctively responded by firing their weapons and killed the teen.

"He attacked a Canadian soldier and that's all I thought of, we responded," said Dolson.

Canada's Task Force in Afghanistan said the man who attacked Greene was a Taliban insurgent.

However, an Afghan elder has reportedly disputed that claim, saying the attacker was a 16-year-old boy with no Taliban connections.

Haji Mohammed Eisah told The Associated Press that Abdul Karim was upset at the U.S.-led coalition's heavy-handed tactics and insensitivity to tribal traditions.

"You can't tell who is and who isn't ... Well they don't go running around with Taliban party cards that says they're Taliban. They could be anyone," Dolson said.

Meanwhile, the Canadian military is reviewing tactics in Afghanistan after its first week leading coalition troops ended with two soldiers killed and the axe attack.

Col. Tom Putt, deputy commander of Canadian forces in Afghanistan, says strategists are currently re-examining procedures involving driving habits and security measures for meetings with local leaders. 

"Undoubtedly we are going through a process of understanding security," Putt told reporters. "We have to keep (meeting local leaders). It's how we do it that we don't know yet."

Col. Michel Drapeau, former director general for the Department of National Defence, said soldiers "learn some very hard lessons in the first few days or weeks of an operation." 

"You're not quite sure which way the enemy is going to be acting. In this case, there's a psychological shift required on the part of the soldiers," Drapeau told CTV's Canada AM Monday. 

"They've been trained for the past 50 years as peace keepers. Now they're into a war setting and they have to look at every individual they cross .. as a potential enemy."

With a report from CTV's Lisa LaFlamme

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060306/axe_account060306


----------



## m410

MikeL said:
			
		

> Haji Mohammed Eisah told The Associated Press that Abdul Karim was upset at the U.S.-led coalition's heavy-handed tactics and insensitivity to tribal traditions.


Tribal traditions like the sanctity of the shura?


----------



## silentbutdeadly

ok for the people who question my level of security at such events and my level of leadership because that is what your doing! Sum the F**k up! your not here! i am out there for weeks on end in those hills fighting these people. the security was there and the boy was sitting in on this . maybe next time we will just shoot everyone instead of the leader of the village hows that? for all the people who support us thxs! my section did a great job better yet an awesome job and people who question it i have no respect! Oh ya and tell me when your coming over here and actually leave the gates! The BS by the villagers that he was upset , i guess he was but to attack a man. well he got his just due. We never since i have been here kicked in doors and hurt there women and i have been on around 5 cordons of towns., so like the majority of the edlers in that valley there Liars! enough said  cheers and God Bless Capt Greene!


----------



## geo

In the paper today, an "elder" of the village spoke up, says that the axman was not taliban but rather a 16 yr old that was angry and frustrated with US and ANA tactics & procedures.... (US = kicking in doors, searching women&kids)(ANA= occupying homes and stealing the little they have)... claims that this was spontaneous.

He didn't explain why the kids dissapeared a couple of minutes ahead of "the deed" and he didn't explain what that ambush firefight from across the river....... 
Who do you believe?


----------



## Franko

Please limit this thread for updates on the incident. 




For best wishes and support to Capt Green and his family:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40650.0.html


For support to the troops in KAF:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40651.0.html


Regards


----------



## commando gunner

Apologies-not an update but something I believe is v important wrt this thread (I wrote it earlier but the thread was locked as I posted it) 



			
				silentbutdeadly! said:
			
		

> ok for the people who question my level of security at such events and my level of leadership because that is what your doing! Sum the F**k up! your not here! i am out there for weeks on end in those hills fighting these people. the security was there and the boy was sitting in on this . maybe next time we will just shoot everyone instead of the leader of the village hows that? for all the people who support us thxs! my section did a great job better yet an awesome job and people who question it i have no respect! Oh ya and tell me when your coming over here and actually leave the gates! The BS by the villagers that he was upset , i guess he was but to attack a man. well he got his just due. We never since i have been here kicked in doors and hurt there women and i have been on around 5 cordons of towns., so like the majority of the edlers in that valley there Liars! enough said  cheers and God Bless Capt Greene!



I am not convinced that getting actively involved in a public site like this after being personally involved in such an incident is a good idea - excellent performance by all concerned notwithstanding.  Dealing with opinionated people arguing or speculating from the comfort of what could in fact even be a civilian job in the homeland with absolutely no concept of what you are going through is not what you -or the Canadian Forces - need.   Neither is open argument in public with someone who was present about what was or was not done before during and after any incident involving the CF until proper investigation has occurred.

S but D - this is not aimed at you at all but is a point in general.   Good job all concerned on that one.

Also earlier posters have commented on the press monitoring of this site.


----------



## Franko

Just to reiterate:

*Critiques of the troops on the ground and their actions on this incident will not be tolerated.*

The next one who does will be put on the warning system.....

The last thing the troops need is for some armchair general, safe and sound in Canada, calling into question their judgement on their actions.

We weren't there....we have no right to, period. 

The only people who can are the troops who were involved.....and I'm sure they feel the same way.

Regards


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Hunter said:
			
		

> Today one of my co-workers had the temerity to ask me how I felt about the little axe-boy f#ck's family's loss.  I couldn't believe it!!  I swear to god I felt myself go white when she said it.  There was a huge silence as people's jaws dropped at what she said, and I just walked away.



You don't think the kid's family felt a loss?  He was 16 according to one report.  Why would it anger you that someone might consider our enemies to be human beings?  He didn't ascend to the planet from the seven circles of Hell. He was a human being acting on some sort of stimulus - stupidity, anger, misinformation, chemical imbalance, criminal impulse, blood lust, confusion - we simply don't know why. But to call him a "sick f***" does nothing to address the fact that these incomprehensible acts are probably a lot more comprehensible once you stop demonizing people and start trying to figure out what makes them tick.  Never heard the expression "know your enemy like you know yourself?"  

Personally, people stupid/brave (hard to tell where the line is drawn) to fly jetliners into buildings or to bring an axe to a gunfight scare the shit out of me.  I'd be far more interested in reading an analysis of their culture - from the guys that are there and dealing with these people day in and day out - than in what the Canadian media has to say about it, or a bunch of ranting here about how "they" are subhuman or something.  These "random acts of violence" are becoming more common and pretending they happen in a sociological vacuum only puts more lives at risk.  

Then again, Franko is right - we are all just armchair quarterbacking - I'd say lock this thread til something substantive comes up.  The namecalling really doesn't add anything either to our image or to the site.

I guess those doing the namecalling are just as scared of these people - it's a natural reaction.  The more understanding we try and give them, the less scary they become - and the easier it will be to defeat them.


----------



## big bad john

I second the move to lock this thread up for now. It is time for a short "cooling off period".   It is just turning into a rant by a misguided few out to second guess the men on the line.  And that my friends is something we should never do!


----------



## Kirkhill

As much as I regret that comments made on this site by some individuals could be used to reflect negatively on the CF,   this site and its members (Edit: and more critically could cause distress to family and friends of those directly involved) I don't think this thread should be locked.

I think that it is much better that the comments are allowed some oxygen so that they can be rebutted where necessary.  The moderators are doing a reasonable job of keeping this discussion within bounds. 
 
One of the advantages of a place like this, IMHO, is that it allows individuals to speak their minds, an opportunity not always available to people in any organization let alone a military organization.  If the thoughts don't come out into the open, if the people they work with don't see where they are "coming from", then they might not get the expected reaction from that individual at a time of crisis.  Perhaps it is better that these discussions happen before people are confronted with the crises.

Edit: Perhaps some of the more egregious statements could be censored or deleted.

We all just have to remember to keep it civil and polite all the while remembering the needs of security. 

My 2 cents.


----------



## Haggis

Franko is bang on.

Before you (and I mean the royal "you", no one in particular) post any more reasoned dissection of the event, consider this:

*Silentbutdeadly* and his troops had but a split second to recognize, analyse and react to the incident and deal with the aftermath.  You've all had three days.

Unless you were there, or have PERSONALLY had a similar encounter (that didn't occur on a TV screen or GameBoy), I suggest you sit back and think through any potential commentary.  To do otherwise could compromise OPSEC or serve to embolden those who would do us harm.  AQ and the Taliban have internet access, too.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Ok, well this being the case, I want to respond to Tess - yes, the troops did what they were paid to do - ie restored order to a dangerous situation by unfortunately having to use lethal force to bring down an individual who - by virtue of the fact he was armed and hostile and had just attempted to murder an unarmed soldier who was "under a flag of truce" so to speak - had identified himself as a combatant.   I think it goes without question that they did the right thing.  My reference was that we have no idea what led up to the situation and giving out congratulations prematurely would be just as wrong as heaping scorn prematurely.  Basically I'm inclined to personally STFU about procedures altogether for the reasons indicated.

But I do think that the death of a 16 year old boy, no matter what the circumstances, will always amount to a tragedy.  Surprised and saddened to see others feel differently.


----------



## big bad john

Haggis said:
			
		

> Franko is bang on.
> 
> Before you (and I mean the royal "you", no one in particular) post any more reasoned dissection of the event, consider this:
> 
> *Silentbutdeadly* and his troops had but a split second to recognize, analyse and react to the incident and deal with the aftermath.  You've all had three days.
> 
> Unless you were there, or have PERSONALLY had a similar encounter (that didn't occur on a TV screen or GameBoy), I suggest you sit back and think through any potential commentary.  To do otherwise could compromise OPSEC or serve to embolden those who would do us harm.  AQ and the Taliban have internet access, too.



We all have seen mentioned in other threads that the media and the "Powers that be", frequent this site, and that we all should be aware of this when postings.  Haggis brings up a good point, I would not be surprised if the occasional *hostile lurked on these pages.  So please beware of what you are posting on this site*


----------



## the 48th regulator

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> They stopped the nutcase from axing anymore, and fought off any further attack from the others.
> 
> I would say that Franko's comments were correct..
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Huh?

I thought they did a superb job....

Did I miss something?  My only vocal opinion was the fact that a few armchair Generals first cast doubt on the Canadian citizen's attitude, and then another allusion that something was done wrong, hence the attack. 

I called both those poster on backing their off the cuff statement.

Sorry if I was misread...

dileas

tess


----------



## Michael Dorosh

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Huh?
> 
> I thought they did a superb job....



Yes we agree that the situation seemed to be handled well as it unfolded.  I think the discussion was on what led up the situation in question - which we have been advised not to discuss any further (a sentiment I agree with).  As Franko pointed out, no one is in a position to judge that.  I was merely suggesting it would be premature not only to condemn, but to praise also.  Both are forms of judgement, and both are beyond anybody's ability to be fair and accurate right now.


----------



## the 48th regulator

> and then another allusion that something was done wrong, hence the attack.



Ahh, I see,

Which was why I was asking the person, with no actuall experience, that made the comment regarding the security, to stay in his lane.

We are all in agreeance then regarding not commenting unless,

a) you were there, or
b) have been in this type of situation before.


dileas

tess


----------



## Mignault.J

Im happy to report that i have gotten word that Trevor's condition has improved, how it has improved im not sure but he is doing better
thanks


----------



## muffin

That's Great! Thanks for the update!


----------



## combat_medic

Canadian Captain comes through surgery
Mar, 07 2006 - 12:50 AM

LANDSTUHL, GERMANY/CKNW(AM980) - The Canadian Military says Captain Trevor Greene was seriously hurt on Saturday when a young man identified as a Taliban militant struck him in the head with an axe while he was speaking with Afghan villagers.

Canadian Medical Officer, Major Nick Withers says Greene's condition has improved somewhat. He says Greene is in a medically induced coma.

Withers says his job now is to arrange transport home for the other wounded Canadians, "The other three individuals who have been injured. So, we're certainly concentrating on that as we're hoping to get them home in a day or two, including Private Miguel Chavez who we're hoping to return to Vancouver again in the next couple of days."

This morning, an Afghan elder is disputing Canada's claim that Greene was attacked by a 16 year old member of the Taliban.


----------



## KevinB

Well I spoke to some of the guys involved and on the periphery of the incident today  -- 110% JOB GUYS  

That is a nasty nasty AO.


----------



## big bad john

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1141858212482

`He's fighting, he's coming back'
Family keeps bedside vigil after axe attack

Canadian soldier may go home soon, MD says
Mar. 9, 2006. 01:00 AM
SANDRO CONTENTA
EUROPEAN BUREAU


LANDSTUHL, Germany—Capt. Trevor Greene never gave up on people in need, and his family aren't about to give up on him.

The 41-year-old Canadian soldier, one of 2,200 on a mission to secure and rebuild southern Afghanistan, has been in a medically induced coma with severe head injuries since an Afghan attacked him with an axe near Kandahar on Saturday. His family have been at his bedside at the U.S. military hospital here since Tuesday, reading him messages of support from across Canada. 

If love could heal, the officer would be back on his feet in no time.

"We just keep talking to him. We know he's hearing us. He's fighting, and he's coming back," said Greene's father, Richard.

"He'll be mad as hell when he wakes up and realizes he can't be in Afghanistan," Richard Greene, 68, added in an interview. "But once he gets back on his feet, there will be other ways for him to serve people."

A retired RCMP staff sergeant, Richard Greene was pleased to speak of his son's accomplishments, first as a journalist and later as a soldier. But at times he broke down, banging the arm of his chair or burying his forehead in his hand.

"He'll pull though. He's going to make it. He's a lot stronger than I am, I tell you," he said. "We just love him to death and support him totally. And we will continue to do so. He'll come back."

Richard Greene lives in Nova Scotia but he and his wife, Elizabeth, got the news of the attack on their son while in Florida, where they spend the winter months. Trevor Greene's wife and his 14-month-old daughter, Grace Elizabeth, came from their home in Vancouver, and his sister Suzanne travelled from her home in Oakville. They'll stay by Trevor's side until he's allowed to travel home. 

Dr. Catherine Gray, with the Canadian military, said that could be within seven to 10 days. She said Greene's condition has improved from critical to serious but stable.

"He's made slow but progressive movements forward in terms of his neurologic status," she said in an interview. Today the big news is that he opened his eyes to stimulation. It was an involuntary reflex but medically speaking that is definitely a step forward," she said, adding he also moves his limbs when stimulated.

"We're optimistic and pleased with the progress. It's extremely difficult with head injuries to foresee the future, but it's definitely a step forward," Gray said. Trevor Greene is being "assisted" by life support equipment and would die without it, Gray said. But "his basic functions are starting to come back," she added.

The big concern now is the potential for infection caused by the blow from the non-sterile axe, Gray said.

"It was a very direct and a very severe hit," she said.

The attack hasn't diminished Richard Greene's support for the mission in Afghanistan. And he hopes Canadians won't second-guess the need for Canadian forces there if casualties mount.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
` He's going to make it. 

He's a lot stronger 

than I am, I tell you.'

Richard Greene, soldier's father

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Afghan people need the help. That's why Canadians must continue with this bloody operation. Those people who do not understand what this whole mission is about had best find out. If they had the information, they'd be much more supportive," he said.

Trevor Greene, an officer in the Canadian forces' Civil-Military Co-operation unit, was sitting with tribal leaders in a destitute village, jotting their needs in a notebook, when an axe-wielding 16-year-old struck him on the head. The youth was immediately shot dead by Canadian soldiers.

The Canadian military has said the teenager was a member of the Taliban, the regime that harboured Osama bin Laden before being ousted in a U.S.-led war. But one tribal elder has denied the Taliban connection, claiming the boy was angry at heavy-handed tactics used by coalition and Afghan army units during search operations.

Richard Greene said Canadian soldiers providing security at the meeting were "blindsided" by an attack that was "totally and completely unforeseen." 

"How in the heck can you foresee this? This incident will cause (Canadian forces) to perhaps approach the whole situation differently," he said.

He said he feels no anger towards the Afghan youth who attacked his son and even "said a prayer for him."

"I feel bad for the young lad who did this. He came from a family as well. His background has been war and that's all he knows. He probably didn't even know what Trevor was trying to do or what Canadians are trying to do." 

Trevor Greene began his career as a journalist in Japan, where he wrote a book about the country's homeless. In the mid 1990s, he joined the navy before returning to journalism and writing a book about Vancouver's prostitutes. In 1998, he joined the army.

A military tradition runs in the Greene family, including two uncles who fought in World War II.

"He grew up with the tradition of attending Remembrance Day ceremonies and visiting the Cenotaph in Ottawa," Richard Greene said. "He also watched every war movie that was ever made and read every war book ever written."

He was aware the Afghan mission was a risky one, but was determined to do what he could to help rebuild the country, his father said. Trevor Greene left for Afghanistan at the end of January.

He was promoted Sunday from lieutenant to captain while in a coma at the Landstuhl hospital.

Under an agreement with the U.S., Canadian soldiers injured in Afghanistan are evacuated to the Landstuhl hospital for treatment before being transferred to Canada. In the last four months, about a dozen Canadian soldiers have been treated at Landstuhl, some of them for non-combat illnesses.

Three Canadian soldiers flew into Edmonton from the hospital in Landstuhl yesterday. Sgt. Darren Haggerty, of London, Ont., and Pte. Miguel Chavez, originally from San Salvador, were injured when their vehicle overturned in southern Afghanistan. Master Corporal Michael Loewen was injured during a suicide bomb attack. Loewen will undergo reconstructive surgery at the University of Alberta Hospital to save his arm.

Trevor Greene is the only Canadian soldier left at the hospital. His father is effusive in his praise for the care U.S. doctors are giving his son, and the accurate media coverage of the attack.

"The coverage that the Toronto Star gave on Sunday was just absolutely phenomenal. We really, really appreciated it," he said, praising the work of Star correspondent Mitch Potter and photographer Rick Madonik, both of whom are in southern Afghanistan.


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## m410

big bad john said:
			
		

> Trevor Greene is the only Canadian soldier left at the hospital. His father is effusive in his praise for the care U.S. doctors are giving his son, and the accurate media coverage of the attack.
> 
> "The coverage that the Toronto Star gave on Sunday was just absolutely phenomenal. We really, really appreciated it," he said, praising the work of Star correspondent Mitch Potter and photographer Rick Madonik, both of whom are in southern Afghanistan.



I agree 100% with Mr. Greene.  The Toronto Star is usually a leftist agitprop paper but their coverage of recent Afganistan events (including the article above) has been outstanding and very supportive.  Bravo.


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## Glorified Ape

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/14/greene060314.html



> *Soldier struck by axe back in Vancouver*
> Last Updated Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:21:34 EST
> CBC News
> A Canadian soldier who was critically injured in an axe attack in Afghanistan arrived in Vancouver on Tuesday.
> 
> Capt. Trevor Greene, 41, was taken from an air ambulance flight from the U.S. military hospital in Germany, to the neurological unit of a hospital in Vancouver.
> 
> His father, Richard Greene, said his son has been showing signs of improvement, including opening and blinking his eyes, and moving his legs.
> 
> "That apparently has some significance, and we believe it (does.) We're confident he'll recover completely," said Greene, who had been at his son's beside in Germany, reading and talking to him.
> 
> "He's just received great care."
> 
> Lt.-Col. Rob Roy McKenzie of the Seaforth Highlanders said Greene's condition is "serious, but stable.
> 
> "His vital signs are stable and he handled the flight very well."
> 
> The soldier was attacked with an axe to the head after he sat down for a meeting with village elders about 60 kilometres north of Kandahar. Greene and another officer had removed their helmets and set down their arms as a gesture of trust.
> 
> Soldiers fired at the attacker, killing him instantly.


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## CommonSenseNCO

I think it's telling t hat the villagers knew about the attack, or that something was about ot happen and did nothing.  The villagers most likely believed such a ction was still in their best intrests. Hopefully, with  the ongoing operation and others like it the troops will deemonstrate to the Afghanis that they can be relied upon for fairness and chasing down the Taliban. This has been the case in other areas the Canadians have been working. IIRC it was the Afghanis who pointed out a car rigged with a dozen 155 rounds  set to go off when the horn was honked. The longer we're there I'm sure the smoother things will go.


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## geo

commonsense..... to be realistic, if the villagers had given the show away to the Cdn troops, the bad guys could/would have opened fire on all of them.

Living in a land of reprisals is not always in black & white.


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## Teflon

Regulator

Your opinion on this matter doesn't amount to much,... You where not there, You don't know what it was all about and YOU and your opinion would undoubtably F*** things up and made the situation worse had you been there. I know the pers that where there, both to conduct the sura (spelling) and providing the close security, being in the same platoon as them, and even though I didn't get to the site till after the event unfolded I still trust in their abilities at their worse so till you are here and have something to back your useless opinion, don't comment on the actions of others!


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## Franko

Teflon,

I already came down on him and others in regard to the nit picking of the actions of the troops on the ground.

Thanks for weighing in.    

Regards


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## the 48th regulator

Teflon said:
			
		

> Regulator
> 
> Your opinion on this matter doesn't amount to much,... You where not there, You don't know what it was all about and YOU and your opinion would undoubtably F*** things up and made the situation worse had you been there. I know the pers that where there, both to conduct the sura (spelling) and providing the close security, being in the same platoon as them, and even though I didn't get to the site till after the event unfolded I still trust in their abilities at their worse so till you are here and have something to back your useless opinion, don't comment on the actions of others!



Are you refering to me?  Or the other regulator....because if it is the other poster please refer to him as "Moe"....

dileas

tess


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## Franko

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Are you refering to me?  Or the other regulator....
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



The other one    

Regards


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## Teflon

To prevent any more possible confusion, my previous comment was meant towards regulator12, My computer time over here is limited and the computers slow so I neglected to go back and get his/her full nick name. Apoligies for any confusion that might of caused (ie: the 48th regulator)

Take Care :warstory:


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## the 48th regulator

Whew,

No worries brother, 

Take care and Stay safe.

dileas

tess


p.s,

Refer to that other "regulator" as Moe...did I mention that?


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## regulator12

Hey Sure call me MOE???? whatever, never tryed to offend you there Teflon or anyone else just had an opinion and i got summed up and didn't argue with you guys...Never disputed that you guys did a good job over there just brought up a point that maybe something went wrong don't need to get bent around the Axel about it, some people sure take criticism really the wrong way.....keep up the good work.....


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## the 48th regulator

Either way,

I still like the name Moe for, less confusion for others.  

dileas

tess


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## Scoobie Newbie

And 48 shall be named Larry.


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## military granny

Good Evening everyone 
just read this update
VANCOUVER -- A Canadian soldier who suffered severe head wounds in an axe attack in Afghanistan has gone from a drug-induced coma to quipping with nurses about his beer-drinking skills, according to his wife. 

The recovery of Capt. Trevor Greene, a civil-military co-operation officer, after the incident on March 4 is detailed in a blog by Debbie. 

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=a09613e5-1da0-4c5c-b183-dec1b07cc797&k=42444


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## Franko

That's great news granny.....glad to hear it.

Regards


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## COBRA-6

Sounds like him  ;D  

Great news!!!


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## geo

Now that he's on the mend, he can joke to the nurses about how he "parts" his hair (JK)

Kidding asside  - it's great that his sense of humour is back on net.
will gladly buy him his 1st (case)

CHIMO!


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## Jake

That's awesome! Thanks for the update!


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## zipperhead_cop

One more update on Capt. Greene:

javascript:void(window.open('http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/canada?ch=222561&cl=408498','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no'));

All the crap he has been through, and will be going through, and he still wants to know if he can go back.  That is a true warrior.


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## The Bread Guy

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Soldier injured in axe attack recovering from latest surgery
Canadian Press, via Halifax Chronicle-Herald, 15 Oct 06
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/534584.html


VANCOUVER (CP) — A Canadian soldier who suffered a near-fatal axe attack in Afghanistan is recovering well from his latest surgery as support from around the world continues for his healing, says his wife.

Debbie Lepore told CBC Radio that Greene had an operation on his skull three weeks ago and is ready to face the challenge of rehabilitation.

Greene is also able to move his body more on his own now instead of physiotherapists doing it for him, Lepore said.

The soldier was ambushed March 4 while sitting down for what he thought would be a friendly gathering of elders in an Afghanistan village. 

Greene had put down his weapon and removed his helmet during the meeting when a villager in his teens snuck up behind him, pulled an axe from his clothing and struck him in the head. Canadian and Afghani soldiers shot and killed the attacker. 

The last thing Greene remembers is being mugged, Lepore said.

"Because the person would have come up from behind, that’s how it would have felt to him."

Lepore doesn’t think her husband feels any sense of betrayal.

"He hasn’t articulated that yet," she said. "I think it’s too early on for him to really start dealing with that. His big focus right now is his recovery and he’s said that."

Greene was drawn to the Afghanistan mission because of his passion for humanitarian causes, Lepore said. 

"He’s always bringing a voice to the oppressed," she said of the former journalist. "He wanted to serve his country in a meaningful way. 

"And to do that he wanted to help people that needed help, that needed the average everyday things that we take for granted, like clean drinking water and schools and education and an end to oppression."

Lepore said she doesn’t think about the political aspects of Canada’s military involvement in Afghanistan after the deaths of 40 Canadian soldiers in that country.

She said she feels a sense of loss for families whose loved ones have died in the line of duty.

"Our situation is different because Trevor will recover and as he continues to go through rehab he will come back and those other families don’t have that to look forward to."

Greene and his family appreciate the ongoing support they’re getting, Lepore said.

"There’s a lot of support from all around the world, not just from Vancouver, Canada, but from the States and from Europe and Asia. He has a far-reaching network of friends and colleagues."


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## 1feral1

Thanks for the update Tony. Its warming to know that he is slowly on the mend, and that he has support from all over.

Cheers,

Wes


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## kratz

Thank you for the update. It's nice to hear how things are progressing after the big news splash over six months ago. Lets hope his recovery continues to go well for him and his family.


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## geo

Thank you for the update.

Best wishes to the injured


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## desert_rat

Kudos to CTV News for airing a very inspiring piece on the progress Trevor Greene is making 4 years after his grievous injury in Afghanistan; while other broadcasting entities *cough* CBC *cough"* are IMHO busy picking the pepper from the flyshit, looking for every microscopic/miniscule fault with our servicemen & women, but I guess "that's their job"  :


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## George Wallace

A very well done and emotional piece.  Cudos to W5.


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## desert_rat

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/WFive/20101201/w5-trevor-greene-soldier-amazing-recovery-102101/


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## The Bread Guy

Well done!


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## MPwannabe

Wonderful story.


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## Thompson_JM

The Man is nothing short of an inspiration....  It's stories like this about people like that, which make me proud to serve along side such incredible Canadians.


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## daftandbarmy

Go Trevor Go...

Army captain beating odds in recovery from Afghanistan axe attack
Five years after an Afghani teenager attacked Capt. Trevor Greene’s head with an axe, Greene is still alive and still making a difference in the world, despite what doctors predicted at the time.
Not only did Greene survive, against all odds he came out of a coma. Against all odds he avoided being left in a vegetative state. Against all odds, he has been able to stand on his own. He wants one day to walk again.
Greene’s determined forward march in his recovery against his massive brain injury has earned him the 2011 award in the physical rehabilitation category.
“Anything is possible,” he said. “My story is going to show people how much is possible.”


Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Army+captain+beating+odds+recovery+from+Afghanistan+attack/4670488/story.html#ixzz1KaMh3nIb


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## canada94

Tear jerker...  , 

I hope he keep's up the progress!


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## ringknocker82

I remember this incident, it took place just before I graduated from RMC. This was a definite eye opener to those of us who were expected be shipping out within the year.  He's a total inspiration, as is the medic who took such great care of him.  Thank you for posting this; always wondered what happened to Capt. Greene.


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## Wookilar

A good write up was in Reader's Digest this month as well.

The good Capt and his wife are one hell of a team.

Wook


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## Brutus

Cabar Feidh gu Brath!


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## The Bread Guy

The healing continues....


> On the day Canada’s combat mission ended in Afghanistan, Capt. Trevor Greene sat under a cloudless sky half a world away. Strong. Content. Grateful. Making plans. Cracking the odd joke, even.
> 
> Here on Vancouver Island, the country’s best-known war casualty is just steps away from being his old self, after 64 at times hellish months of surgery and therapy.
> 
> And those steps — to walk again is the ultimate goal in an odds-defying recovery from his devastating 2006 axe attack — Greene, 46, now describes with certainty.
> 
> “I’m going after it. I’ll walk. I’m positive.” The statement is persuasive, given how hours earlier he rose to his feet repeatedly during an iron-pumping session in his home gym on the outskirts of Nanaimo.
> 
> But as he rewrites conventional medical wisdom, awakening his body, limb by limb, movement by movement, Greene is now thinking beyond simply walking. He’s looking to pick up where he left off in Afghanistan. Not as a soldier, but as a humanitarian.
> 
> A charitable foundation aimed at the education of Afghan girls is what Greene and his equally dedicated wife, Debbie, have in mind. And it is far from an idle notion ....


Source:  _Toronto Star_, 16 Jul 11


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## Northalbertan

Both Capt Greene and his wife are remarkable individuals and an inspiration to not only CF members but the entire nation.  He displays exceptional character and determination.  People like them make be proud to be Canadian.     

I wish them both well in his continuing recovery.  I have no doubt that he will reach his goal.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Another update....


> .... years of therapy, including visualization and repetition to help remap his brain to control simple movements, has given him some ability to use his arms. Now living in Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island, Greene and his wife are working on his goal of walking again.
> 
> The Greenes received a $100,000 bequest from the estate of James Motherwell, a Vancouver man they'd never met. The plan is to use it as seed money for a charity aimed at educating Afghan girls.
> 
> Greene, who before joining the military wrote a book about Vancouver's troubled Downtown Eastside neighbourhood, has co-written a book with his wife about his recovery. It is scheduled for publication next March and some of the proceeds will also go towards the Greenes' Afghan charity.


Yahoo.ca news blog, 3 Nov 11


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