# report: CSIS agents to learn Arabic overseas



## CougarKing (14 Jul 2010)

On a sidenote, doesn't the US military have the Defence Language Institute at Monterey, California?



> Canadian Press link
> 
> 
> OTTAWA - Canadian spies are heading overseas to take Arabic lessons as part of a long-term effort to help secret agents tackle terrorist threats more effectively.
> ...


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## TimBit (14 Jul 2010)

What`s wrong with learning a language in Ottawa? We have the defence language academy, the FS academy, etc... All in a friendly, secure, family-friendly, CHEAP environment...

Pff, typical CSIS gunk...


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## dapaterson (14 Jul 2010)

It's the difference between 8-4 lessons and living and being immersed in the culture and language 24/7.  It also permits the students to interact with host nation personnel and build that social network of contacts.


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## TimBit (14 Jul 2010)

I do get that. 
However... many other people work in areas where knowledge of culture, habits, customs and so on will else, i.e. at DFAIT or CSE. But people at DFAIT still take their courses here.

As for the network, well I'm ready to bet anything that the courses will take place in a "friendly" country, so you wouldn`t be able to build much of an intelligence network that would pay off when the caca really hits the fan. Perhaps build links with the host nation, which I perceive as a mostly good but not entirely opportunity - 2 or 3 years in a foreign country is a LONG time during which you can pick up some, shall we say, habits. All in all is that worth the incredible expense? Rather than hiring more personnel? Granted it`s O&M vice SWE (finance talk) but it`s still public money.


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## daftandbarmy (15 Jul 2010)

Why only Arabic? Let's get them each learning at least four or five languages (please, please, please make sure that at least one of them is Chinese) identify which ones each operator is most comfortable with, then send them to that country to do some good ol' spyin' 'n lurnin'.


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## Nauticus (15 Jul 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> I do get that.
> However... many other people work in areas where knowledge of culture, habits, customs and so on will else, i.e. at DFAIT or CSE. But people at DFAIT still take their courses here.
> 
> As for the network, well I'm ready to bet anything that the courses will take place in a "friendly" country, so you wouldn`t be able to build much of an intelligence network that would pay off when the caca really hits the fan. Perhaps build links with the host nation, which I perceive as a mostly good but not entirely opportunity - 2 or 3 years in a foreign country is a LONG time during which you can pick up some, shall we say, habits. All in all is that worth the incredible expense? Rather than hiring more personnel? Granted it`s O&M vice SWE (finance talk) but it`s still public money.



Is it worth it? Is it worth giving our intelligence service the best training possible, including languages, to protect our country from terrorism and threat? Yes. Yes, I do believe that is worth it.


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## George Wallace (15 Jul 2010)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> Is it worth it? Is it worth giving our intelligence service the best training possible, including languages, to protect our country from terrorism and threat? Yes. Yes, I do believe that is worth it.



At the same time, what is the greatest threat today?  Will it be the greatest threat tomorrow?  Should we be concentrating on teaching Pashtun to people, if we are pulling out in one year?    We could have "men staring at goats" trying to determine who are our future threats.


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## TimBit (15 Jul 2010)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> Is it worth it? Is it worth giving our intelligence service the best training possible, including languages, to protect our country from terrorism and threat? Yes. Yes, I do believe that is worth it.



Well, from where I sit, many manage to do the job extraordinarily well without spending 3 years in-country spending half a mil. Keep in mind, that money could also be spent on more personnel.


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## dapaterson (15 Jul 2010)

There are always tradeoffs between quality and quantity.

From my seat in the bleachers, the overseas immersive learning experience is superior.  And the network of contacts in an allied or friendly country is extremely useful.  Having a name who to contact instead ofa monolithic bureaucracy is incredibly useful.

And I would be very leery of holding up DFAIT as a model to be emulated in most respects...


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Jul 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> . . . . .  the overseas immersive learning experience is superior.  And the network of contacts in an allied or friendly country is extremely useful.  Having a name who to contact instead ofa monolithic bureaucracy is incredibly useful.



I concur (through personal experience, though not in language training) that overseas training/learning can be superior and is a valuable tool for developing international work contacts.  However, it is unlikely that the CSIS employees will be attending "Arabic for Spys" run by a foreign intelligence service.  It is more likely that the training will be conducted at one of the many civilian educational providers (including universities) that now sell language training to thousands of westerners (from the public and private sectors) wanting to be proficient in the local tongue.  Granted the local government (and their spooks/security agencies) will be aware of the students' pedigrees and have approved of such stays in their country.  There may even be some limited (informal, social?) contact between the local spooks and our guys, but my (uneducated) opinion is that knowledge of these Canadians' stays will be more beneficial to the host nation's security service than to ours (easier to keep tabs on them).  However, if these CSIS pers gain proficency in Arabic (a difficult task), being able to "speak the same language" (both literally and figuratively) can open many doors and foster easier communication and cooperation in future multi-national operations.

On a different note, would these CSIS officers incur a contractual obligation for this expensive education once they obtain what could be a very marketable skill?


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## TimBit (16 Jul 2010)

> On a different note, would these CSIS officers incur a contractual obligation for this expensive education once they obtain what could be a very marketable skill?



Well, from a friend over there, it's understood that if you accept such an opportunity, the bulk of your career will be spent on Arab affairs. Don't expect to go there and come back to chinesse CI. As for a "time in" clause, I do not think so no.


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## Nauticus (29 Jul 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> Well, from where I sit, many manage to do the job extraordinarily well without spending 3 years in-country spending half a mil. Keep in mind, that money could also be spent on more personnel.


More personnel doesn't solve the language barrier process.

And George, you're right that this may or may not be the threat tomorrow, but it is today. So like everyone is told to do, plan for what we know, be aware of what we don't, and make the best of it.


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