# Bivy Bag usage



## qjdb (17 Aug 2006)

OK, treat this as a Civvie question, as I do not have a chain to go up to answer this one for me (I am CIC, so there is no 'institutional knowledge' of this for me).  I have searched, but have not found the answer, as most of you DO have that 'institutional knowledge'.

I have a Civvie Bivy sack, a Civvie sleeping bag, and a Civvie blue foam mattress.  I have a compression sack that came with the sleeping bag, but I also have another one that was purchased separately, that is slightly larger.

My questions are these:

1.  Is the mattress put inside the bivy sack, or does the bivy sack sit on top of the mattress?

2.  When you roll everything up, do you roll the sleeping bag up inside the bivy, like a huge burrito, or do you take the sleeping bag out, then fold the bivy sack up?

3.  If you have the mattress inside the bivy, does that get rolled up inside as well?

Thank you very much in advance.  And please, not TOO much CIC bashing, eh? ;D


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## paracowboy (17 Aug 2006)

1. I've seen some folks put their air mattress inside their bivvy bag. It never seems to work out too well for them. I can't do it, since I'm a big fatass, and barely fit in my bivvy bag as it is.

2. I stuff the sleeping bag/bivvy bag combo into my valise (or compression sack, in your case) together. It saves time, and it helps ensure that The Bag stays dry, should water seep into my valise.

3. Answers 1 and 2 above should answer #3, in my case, I would think.

Take it for what it's worth.


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## devilins (17 Aug 2006)

My answers are these.  This is personal taste though so you can take how I do things with a grain of salt.

1.  Is the mattress put inside the bivy sack, or does the bivy sack sit on top of the mattress?

I usually just sleep on top of the mattress thus saving my bivy bag from getting holes and becoming a casualty of the EX.  As well I have a tendency to roll around a touch and I would end up cuddling my mattress rather then sleeping on it.  As for where it goes on my ruck, generally the mattress is pushed against the frame and the valise or your compression sack gets strapped on top of it.

2.  When you roll everything up, do you roll the sleeping bag up inside the bivy, like a huge burrito, or do you take the sleeping bag out, then fold the bivy sack up?

I roll up my sleeping bag inside my bivy bag and then I put it all in the valise as the bivy bag provides extra protection from the elements IE that river you just had to cross.

Hope this answers your questions but I'm sure there are some hardcore pathfinder types out there that could give you even better suggestions.

Cheers!!


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## BEN 621 (17 Aug 2006)

I second para-cowboy's motions, except the big fat arse part. I have a scawny, boney arse, and I too kept the pad outside & under the biv bag/fart-sack combo. And keeping the sleeping bag inside the biv bag when you pull-pole prevents the bag from getting wet as opposed to placing it inside the same valice/stuff sack as the wet biv bag.

There is no such thing as a stupid question (well, I take that back after being a cop for 3 years now; but I believed it in the army)


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## Shamrock (17 Aug 2006)

I don't recommend putting the air mattress inside the bivy bag.  I did it once, makes sitting up in the sleeping bag comically difficult.  If you like to run marathons in your sleep, you may want to consider this as an option. especially if you're sleeping outside of a tent.

For 82 ptn ruck:
I've seen a few guys put the air mattress inside the valise then stuff their sleeping kit inside at the centre.  I've also seen said individuals struggle to secure their gigantic valises to their rucks.  Normally, the air mattress is stored outside the valise but inside the cargo straps.  I recommend against slipping the straps through the loops on the air mattress carrier and securing it outsde because (in my opinion) the air mattress isn't secure enough that way.  The valise is large enough to store bivy bag and sleeping bag together with space to spare (in case some kid suddenly realizes the TV he brought with him is too heavy).

For Civy ptn pack:
My sleeping bag compartment of my pack is large enough for both seperately.  Left together, gets pretty cramped.  I'll seperate them, compress & waterproof the sleeping bag, then store it followed by the bivy bag (hey, it's civy camping and I have the time).  Bivy bags don't compress (no loft), but they do roll up nice and tight.  Air mattress gets secured in a vertical on the pack, I hate having my pack wider than my shoulders.  Be careful about using your bivy bag to waterproof your sleeping bag if you're doing some hard backwoods camping/canoe/kayaking -- Gore Tex® isn't as waterproof as garbage bags.  I'm a pack light kind of guy but I always garbage bag my kit (but my garbage bag serves two purposes: it's bright orange, so in case of emergency, marker panel).


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## George Wallace (17 Aug 2006)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> but I always garbage bag my kit (but my garbage bag serves two purposes: it's brigh orange, so in case of emergency, marker panel).



Ah!  Yes!  Those Bright Orange ones......They really are heavy duty and work great.......but they really aren't 'garbage bags' though, are they!   ;D


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## Sloaner (17 Aug 2006)

Well from one CIC WOG to another, there is some limited institutional knowledge on the topic, just depends on your Region and when you did your courses.  Like most of the responses here Air matress is generally outside the bag when in use, believe me this will make your life easier.  I've tried it both ways and when you're chasing down you cadets on a pull pole this will save you time in your personal kit re-load.  I tend to keep my sleep kit inside the bivy bag and then into the valise, again quicker and adds protection as many have already pointed out.  When packing follow the same rules as when sleeping keep the matress outside your valise as it will save time in a number of different ways when establishing and striking a biv site with your kids.  I do a bit of adventure racing as well, and I follow the same rules with my civy kit and it always works well.  If you're looking for some of the institutional references, I'll see if I can dig them up in my boxes of manuals etc.  If I can find it, I'll scan it and send it your way, just PM me with anything you may need.


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## 1feral1 (17 Aug 2006)

What works for me? Foam mattress under the bivvy. What's inside the bivvy? Depending on the season in Australia (there is two in Queensland, warm and hot) I would only have a poncho liner, or in the colder times, a sleeping bag and poncho liner.

I don't use my bivvy often, instead most here have a swag (google Australian swag). Its bulky, and ties up well on the top of a LAV. A bit of comfort in the field, and to see a LAV with 3-4 of them strapped on a LAV is not unusual.

Cheers,

Wes


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## qjdb (17 Aug 2006)

Thank you for the quick responses everyone.

Outside the bivy is pretty much what I had figured, but I just wanted to make sure that I was going to do it correctly.  Or at least the way that the majority does it, as I have found that if the majority does it a certain way, it is probably the way that makes the most sense.

Again, thanks.


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## Bzzliteyr (23 Aug 2006)

By the way.. I am not sure if you are using the term "roll" literally, but it's always been a good practice to actually "stuff" the sleeping bag in.  Most outdoor companies suggest it with high end sleeping bags as it keep the feathers random I believe.

"When packing your sleeping bag into its stuff sack, do exactly as the name suggests and simply stuff the bag in. This has 2 advantages, firstly it is a lot easier than trying to roll the bag and then put it in, and secondly it means that the bag will not be folded in exactly the same places over and over which could in time damage those areas.
The easiest way to stuff it in is to push the foot end in first."

taken from http://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/Camping-Equipment/Sleeping-Bag/default.htm (thanks google)

BTW, the same goes for tents.  Better to stuff than to fold and roll!


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## Fishbone Jones (23 Aug 2006)

Stuffing your mil issue sleeping bag, helps it dry out and keep the feathers fluffed. If you roll it, you'll always be getting into a damp sleeping bag. Makes it look like your carrying a bigger load too! ;D


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## qjdb (1 Sep 2006)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> By the way.. I am not sure if you are using the term "roll" literally, but it's always been a good practice to actually "stuff" the sleeping bag in.  Most outdoor companies suggest it with high end sleeping bags as it keep the feathers random I believe.



Yeah, I do stuff them, yes.  For the tents, I tend to fold and roll those, though, as they just don't make those frikkin' bags big enough to stuff them in there, I find.  I usually stuff the fly in, though.

Again, thanks, all.


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## GO!!! (1 Sep 2006)

I put my air mattress inside the bivy bag in the winter, because that way only the bivy bag gets wet.

In the summer, air mattress goes outside, so the bivy bag does'nt get holes in it.


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## NL_engineer (1 Sep 2006)

qjdb said:
			
		

> Yeah, I do stuff them, yes.  For the tents, I tend to fold and roll those, though, as they just don't make those frikkin' bags big enough to stuff them in there, I find.  I usually stuff the fly in, though.



You can stuff most tents, unless you are talking about the $30 Crappy Tire two man tents.


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## qjdb (5 Sep 2006)

no, more like the freakin' huge family cabins.  Stuffing doesn't work so well for those.

My smaller tents, yeah, those get stuffed.

Quentin


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## scoutfinch (5 Sep 2006)

Hmmmm.  I have yet to use my bivy bag.  I typically sleep with my ranger blanket on my air mattress under my hooch.  I know this sounds like a ludicrous question but Is the bivy bag simply used to keep you dry in the event of rain?


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## paracowboy (5 Sep 2006)

prevents moisture period. Sleep without it and you can get dew or frost forming on your blankie. Makes for a rude and chilly awakening.


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## BernDawg (5 Sep 2006)

That bivvy bag is one of the best pieces of kit they have ever issued.  Many a night I have lain on the ground in a mod dreaming of being warm and dry.  Of course that was back in the day....  :warstory:
Now I can be warm and dry wherever I am.  Kinda like an issued woobie!


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## scoutfinch (5 Sep 2006)

Isn't that funny... the reason I haven't used it was because I assumed (I know, I know....) that it would actually act as a barrier to moisture evaporating off of my body and the bivy bag itself would get  gross and clammy.  Serves me right for not asking before.  Fortunately, I got out of Gage'nam before the cool summer nights hit... or maybe  I was just too sleep deprived to have noticed the cold anyway.


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## geo (5 Sep 2006)

Huh???
they let you sleep in Gagetown?
Where are the standards going?


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## scoutfinch (5 Sep 2006)

THREAD JACK ALERT **** THREAD JACK ALERT **** THREAD JACK ALERT

Geo:

Trust me -- there wasn't alot with the exception of being on the range where I learned that if I wasn't on the relay or in the butts, I was sleeping (it was my favourite *background activity*)  I knew I had mastered sleeping through anything when I had to be woken up on the grenade range to go throw my own.  I immediately returned to sleep once I was finished.

That being said, I come from an army family and my dad taught me when I was a wee little girl that any fool can be uncomfortable.  So, if I figured if  I was going to get more than an hour and I was at the biv, I dug out my sleeping gear.  Otherwise, I slept without it.  

I know people think I need a lobotomy but I swear -- I loved CAP!  It was a blast... one hell of a pile of work but worth everything I put into it!


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## davidk (5 Sep 2006)

On course, we were shown how to use the bivy bag as a flotation device -  pack all your kit inside it, roll it up tight as you can, hold on tight and cross the river.


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## geo (5 Sep 2006)

Och you missed the best part of your 1st river fording........
dealing with wet kit for 24 hrs..... "fun" (or so they told me).

Military has taught me that, the moment you have "idle" time, you go to ground and.... bingo - asleep... and you wake up just as quickly....
My wife & son are, amongst others, amazed at how I can go on with so little sleep....

Don't try this at home kiddies, only attempt under the supervision of professionals


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## scoutfinch (5 Sep 2006)

I didn't understand the Insta-sleep process until this summer.  Now, I am a certified master. I've never required a lot of sleep so it was not a huge hardship to go without.  I ended up less sleep f*cked than a lot of my course mates which means I had a great laugh at their expense as they hallucinated their way through the last few days of defensive!

Along with insta-sleep, I no longer can eat a meal at a normal pace.  I am done and wiping my mouth with a napkin by the time that my family is just getting started.  Breathing becomes optional as soon as my plate is in front of me.


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## davidk (5 Sep 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Och you missed the best part of your 1st river fording........
> dealing with wet kit for 24 hrs..... "fun" (or so they told me).



Of course it's fun... so long as _your_ personal kit isn't being volunteered for the demo  ;D


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## geo (5 Sep 2006)

naw..... we all lived thru it... the better that we all learnt lesson 100% correctly


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## Jay4th (6 Sep 2006)

I love my bivvy bag, but if it is a reasonably dry night I lie in my sleeping bag on top of the bivvy bag.  I tend to get a little moist inside the gore-tex.  Funny story.
One night in Minnesota, in a patrolbase, I went to ground (lucky me).  Beside me was Infidel-6 in a light green bivvy bag with Gore-tex brand stamped inside on several places.  My bag was a contract bag from Mustang Safety gear.  The rain poured down, beaded off I-6 and soaked into me like a sponge. He laughed and laughed.  I took my bag to clothing after the ex and rummaged around in the box of bivvy bags til I found one made by Gore-tex brand. Thank God for an accomodating supply tech who thought I was nuts.
I always put the air mattress inside the bivvy bag. That mattress is heavy when wet.


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## Link (2 Nov 2006)

I've slept in nothing but the bivy bag, kept me dry and after reveille there wasn't any time to stuff all that other kit away.  So I've come to find that the bivy works fine on its own, only in the summer however.


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## Synthos (3 Nov 2006)

A couple things I have picked up in my experience in civi camping and what I have had in terms of military issued sleep 

Stuffing is faster and generally smaller than rolling. (Way faster!) just stuff hard; use body weight to stuff even harder, try to get down into the corners as much as you can.

Self inflating mattresses are nice, and can be quite comfy, but they have some issues: noise, time (to inflate and deflate), and can generally be a bit of a hassle. Foam mattresses (i've heard good things about "ridge rests" on these forums) are faster to set up and take down but can be less comfortable than a self inflating one.

I would recommend the mattress out side of the bivi bag. Especially if you store your sleeping mat outside of the valice with your bivi bag/sleeping bag, it will ensure that dirt collected on the bottom of your mattress is not transfered to your sleeping stuff.


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## Bomber (3 Nov 2006)

The newer bivvy's, made with "Stead Air" are nowhere near as water proof or repellant as the old Goretex ones, to make life a little easier, place your old tatty issue cotton scarf on top of your mattress like it is a sheet, place your bivy and all sleeping kit on top of this.  You Bivy will allow moisture, produced by your body (sweat, condensation, body fluids), transfer in a 360 degree direction.  But, you are sleeping on top of a plasticized air tight membraned mattress, the moisture will go out of the bag, but then will sit on the outside, and eventually saturate that portion, and cause cold and discomfort.  By placing the scarf there, you will absorb most of this moisture, and you can then hang the scarf to dry.  Up north we would jokingly tease the FOO for "pissing the bed" then we would all go on with those TV Commercial voices about bed wetting medication and how his friends wouldn't invite him over for sleep overs.... It was cold and lonely snowed into a tent.  But, place the scarf, and you will reduce your bed wetting tendencies, sleep warmer, and get better sleep.  Remember, your body will pump out almost a liter of water over a good 6 hour sleep, even on a weekend exercise, this will increase the weight of your sleeping gear by 2 kg's,  Imagine what a week long ex will do.  Always dry out your sleeping kit as often as possible.  This si one of the reasons why your kit fit in the valise at home, but for some reason never does when people are yellingat you to pack your crap and lets go ....


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## vigillis (4 Nov 2006)

I would have to agree with Bomber about the scarf, however I find that an old grey "almost" army wool blanket does better.  IMO the bivy performance seems to end at around -20 degrees and bites rocks when lower.  My friends descrbe me lovingly as a person who sweats when he eats, so the colder the ambiant temperature, the less your body is able to heat the micro pores that allow the water vapour to escape.  This leads to condensation on the inside of your bivy which then melts upon contact with your warmer sleeping bag, thus wet bag.  I do however put the bivy under the Cariboo skin I lie on during patrols.  BTW I work with the Rangers so Cariboo skins are on my 638's. ;D


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## orange.paint (4 Nov 2006)

Best piece of kit ever.Usually I just throw my fleece civi sleeping bag in it and pump up the submergence hydraulics.However that was back when I was a soldier.

Best night sleep in the world,back deck too hot to touch.Cold winter night.Hard days work.Air mattress biv and my fleece.


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## BernDawg (4 Nov 2006)

Doyle: funny you should mention the blanket.  I started doing that a few years ago too and it works awesome.  I fold it in three length ways so it just fits on the therma-rest and you sleep on three layers.  Wicked comfy.


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